From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Thu Nov 1 14:27:14 2018 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:27:14 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler starting version In-Reply-To: References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 10/31/2018 08:41 AM, Jim Ziobro wrote: > I am starting from the contrib directory file named: > ??? mm-handler-2.1.10 > inside is line: > ??? $VERSION = '$Id: mm-handler 2.1.10 2008-04-14 00:00:00 $'; > > My goals: > > ?* patch upper/lowercase issue solved a decade ago > ?* allow mail to POSTMASTER at list.example.com to forward to the > ?? machine's postmaster.?? This fix allows arbitrary personal aliases. > ?? (Support RFC-2142) Jim, I'm inclined to let you finish your changes and then add my changes to your finished version. (Fewer changes in flight at the same time.) Or would you like me to share what I have with you and you incorporate what you think is reasonable in your version? > One other feature that I'd like is to optionally save *all* bounce > messages.? This is valuable for initial list creation.? Is that feature > available elsewhere in mailman? Assuming that all bounces pass through mm-handler, it should be possible to do something with a copy of them. The trick is to recognize them. This is trivial to match RFC formatted Delivery Status Notifications. It's more problematic with other formats of bounces. I would personally be inclined to forward the bounce, as an unmodified attachment, to the list owner, postmaster, or some other configured address. -- Grant. . . . unix || die From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Thu Nov 1 15:05:53 2018 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 13:05:53 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler support In-Reply-To: References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <209f915d-07d9-3175-aa45-c93f347c2be2@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: <58b74c13-1f4e-4a03-5519-20ccc17ce1ea@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 10/31/2018 08:14 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > I think that would be good. ACK See my reply to Jim if you have opinions on how / when it's done. > See Intriguing. My python is quite bad, but that looks like it reads from STDIN and writes to STDOUT. Which I think is not directly compatible with milters. But, it would serve as a starting place for a milter. Sadly I don't think that will work as is for me. I'm running Sendmail and would need a milter. -- Grant. . . . unix || die From jimpop at domainmail.org Thu Nov 1 15:11:37 2018 From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2018 15:11:37 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GPG Sig parse error (was: Re: mm-handler starting version) In-Reply-To: <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: <1541099497.2055.4.camel@domainmail.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Thu, 2018-11-01 at 12:27 -0600, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote: > Error verifying signature: parse error Hello, I changed the subject and have GPG signed this message. I've done this because I keep seeing GPG Sig parse errors for Grant's emails that traverse this list, but not other lists. I'm curious if my sig produces a parse error on this list or if anyone else sees a parse error on Grant's emails... and ideally to get to the bottom of what is causing the problem. - -Jim P. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEPxwe8uYBnqxkbORSJxVetMRaJwUFAlvbT+kACgkQJxVetMRa JwVrtQ//QSp2OTE6ZSeNdeW9eOYiMSQacbwriViBwVZZswOz6/tXRR5yczmj/lpg DAIPPWMHCfKTXLd5/wOtG5hHWxT7TkTyCcACnL2Cc4vYFTEEp1kmdU6OkvXmTxW9 BytVKzN82ZAbU0bxXxCqyyuX6gw/ITqZgmyPvd2oUJWs2fUVh0NymnKtATeAR7XI s1HMR/bqQPgk+coVBWhXS9Np0j8Hcg7WZpvN8LW+RSb1rWOPV9U41vShlgZ1JQhs OwdzKXXPBcr42o9F/dOfkhRarqAQ4kL3wydot4xFEonFWwUiDuXoSy7MrP7XqJdZ hqQMeEKR9OEb2+0GlYYOwGyN/5Kw6d/eTMdCWto76QMbFuvgUEGBXybPU89gZHlb gwhPrKbKk+t3K4MYCzlSiAW5H9cVjOBy5yaQGzpYUGcsgsQLZyTBsz1P9gCQbDdP 4G9vSomK9M1Z5zlaW7oNFKcyfzy5N6sv4zvAFn/MUCjvVuqipF7brhGPCGtbuIyT efsEGws8uFNgfVahXf4pOrr77xGARiMhWKWM09Z+SqeBmmr/RQpALFUpEMnAnLSn nFbvOiyMNobl4LeIVDyg15QBzHgQFUw3mfQ5putUAI20qTggODMRR5Gd5KLpJnQa jJvPrwWlMijrdVbQdMuPpYWpQ3xq9e16ThZcF/Ih+1jYODxvdyU= =ZzpX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mark at msapiro.net Thu Nov 1 15:23:49 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:23:49 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler support In-Reply-To: <58b74c13-1f4e-4a03-5519-20ccc17ce1ea@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <209f915d-07d9-3175-aa45-c93f347c2be2@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <58b74c13-1f4e-4a03-5519-20ccc17ce1ea@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: On 11/1/18 12:05 PM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote: > On 10/31/2018 08:14 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> See > > Intriguing. > > My python is quite bad, but that looks like it reads from STDIN and > writes to STDOUT.? Which I think is not directly compatible with milters. It's not a milter per se. It is a Postfix policy service . The interface is different from a milter. I don't know if there is anything comparable in sendmail. > But, it would serve as a starting place for a milter. Yes, it could. > Sadly I don't think that will work as is for me.? I'm running Sendmail > and would need a milter. Yes, I suspect it is Postfix specific. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Nov 1 15:30:20 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:30:20 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GPG Sig parse error (was: Re: mm-handler starting version) In-Reply-To: <1541099497.2055.4.camel@domainmail.org> References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <1541099497.2055.4.camel@domainmail.org> Message-ID: On 11/1/18 12:11 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > On Thu, 2018-11-01 at 12:27 -0600, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote: >> Error verifying signature: parse error > > Hello, > > I changed the subject and have GPG signed this message. I've done this > because I keep seeing GPG Sig parse errors for Grant's emails that > traverse this list, but not other lists. I'm curious if my sig produces > a parse error on this list or if anyone else sees a parse error on > Grant's emails... and ideally to get to the bottom of what is causing > the problem. Your sig verifies fine. Grant's sig is not a PGP signature. It is a pkcs7-signature. Your MUA should not be attempting to process it via PGP/GPG. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 181 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jimpop at domainmail.org Thu Nov 1 15:43:01 2018 From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2018 15:43:01 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GPG Sig parse error (was: Re: mm-handler starting version) In-Reply-To: References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <1541099497.2055.4.camel@domainmail.org> Message-ID: <1541101381.7202.0.camel@domainmail.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Thu, 2018-11-01 at 12:30 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 11/1/18 12:11 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > > On Thu, 2018-11-01 at 12:27 -0600, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users > > wrote: > > > Error verifying signature: parse error > > > > Hello, > > > > I changed the subject and have GPG signed this message.??I've done > > this > > because I keep seeing GPG Sig parse errors for Grant's emails that > > traverse this list, but not other lists.??I'm curious if my sig > > produces > > a parse error on this list or if anyone else sees a parse error on > > Grant's emails... and ideally to get to the bottom of what is > > causing > > the problem. > > > Your sig verifies fine. Grant's sig is not a PGP signature. It is a > pkcs7-signature. Well that makes more sense, I suppose I should have first looked into the msg source. > Your MUA should not be attempting to process it via PGP/GPG. Here's what I see https://i.imgur.com/xLDnojI.png in Evolution. I was wrong to assume it was a PGP parse error, it does however look to be a pkcs7 sig parse error... and I'm clueless about how to investigate that. :-) - -Jim P. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEPxwe8uYBnqxkbORSJxVetMRaJwUFAlvbV0UACgkQJxVetMRa JwV17RAAwBMKTcg7G8QqZj3FUFTCGG1mV+FGabNbEEkKUDI3FKYY2rPG1mPkJ4Ub sk/6fhrsq+BjGryMBsrlxx9mT3O6PFow0AvGDx42G/9k9SXj5WeeGVP7J5sad8hQ i5nhmJ2HEQkoUHTO2sLpxQb72KgI+lx8cPnvQqG3gBBZ83wCFLMRzqdlz2vfQqY/ QPOm/Xoy8PV9vkfBVOSkzwvxTr2YLS1W9OO3p4tOuii+OO6RFaJwSXgfoYywsALX FkbD+Frsus/mVTZjbn1kMGoGashXiIyZGDO0SDjnS/m44u9BFDCgZ3pWDy+fBF+G 4M+g5wJ4O7fkvJ6ki91wUGDxmtk7/OylUOHeLURlFxEGkB0qz0Y29Wvrtt6BHoUO tuXRvQ+AIHEljmeZsYvvtDO9lsIu5L0PjcDClFVH0bDzeqB5C3/hMcvoTg18fFAL IdZY9MLSO8os8MXvoluyi/HLaJrkcJSZR8iUYbmYP+bBBx86XSWNBCKi8aSHnina 2iHYiKAUsAA/ExC3wjhJtjEWxZJ8J4wfT1mnG+CswO57q+ox6d58k53iw7SihHGh YQHvjCF87HUnSDD6Fqdsa6617T9005j48F3U624fvfJEpToXjlgudW4oVM4wOOPS i41s9Rp4hQQiZxvg5uy8AupwuE+70m2lSBoELJO4aT8ORdRafuc= =wxy2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jimpop at domainmail.org Thu Nov 1 15:49:30 2018 From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2018 15:49:30 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GPG Sig parse error (was: Re: mm-handler starting version) In-Reply-To: <1541101381.7202.0.camel@domainmail.org> References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <1541099497.2055.4.camel@domainmail.org> <1541101381.7202.0.camel@domainmail.org> Message-ID: <1541101770.7202.2.camel@domainmail.org> On Thu, 2018-11-01 at 15:43 -0400, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > On Thu, 2018-11-01 at 12:30 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > On 11/1/18 12:11 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > > > On Thu, 2018-11-01 at 12:27 -0600, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users > > > wrote: > > > > Error verifying signature: parse error > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I changed the subject and have GPG signed this message.??I've done > > > this > > > because I keep seeing GPG Sig parse errors for Grant's emails that > > > traverse this list, but not other lists.??I'm curious if my sig > > > produces > > > a parse error on this list or if anyone else sees a parse error on > > > Grant's emails... and ideally to get to the bottom of what is > > > causing > > > the problem. > > > > > > Your sig verifies fine. Grant's sig is not a PGP signature. It is a > > pkcs7-signature.? > > Well that makes more sense, I suppose I should have first looked into > the msg source. > > > Your MUA should not be attempting to process it via PGP/GPG. > > Here's what I see https://i.imgur.com/xLDnojI.png in Evolution.? And for completion here's what I see for Grant's emails to the Bind- Users list: https://i.imgur.com/gOEXlh9.png Apologies Grant it this is too much discussion of you :-) I'm only trying to get to the root of the issue. -Jim P. From mark at msapiro.net Thu Nov 1 16:07:02 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 13:07:02 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GPG Sig parse error (was: Re: mm-handler starting version) In-Reply-To: <1541101381.7202.0.camel@domainmail.org> References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <1541099497.2055.4.camel@domainmail.org> <1541101381.7202.0.camel@domainmail.org> Message-ID: On 11/1/18 12:43 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > > Here's what I see https://i.imgur.com/xLDnojI.png in Evolution. I was > wrong to assume it was a PGP parse error, it does however look to be a > pkcs7 sig parse error... and I'm clueless about how to investigate that. > :-) The list's content filtering was removing the application/pkcs7-signature part. I have now added application/pkcs7-signature to pass_mime_types (application/pgp-signature was already passed). That should help. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 181 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jimpop at domainmail.org Thu Nov 1 16:17:48 2018 From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2018 16:17:48 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GPG Sig parse error (was: Re: mm-handler starting version) In-Reply-To: References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <1541099497.2055.4.camel@domainmail.org> <1541101381.7202.0.camel@domainmail.org> Message-ID: <1541103468.7202.6.camel@domainmail.org> On Thu, 2018-11-01 at 13:07 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 11/1/18 12:43 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > > > > Here's what I see https://i.imgur.com/xLDnojI.png in Evolution.??I > > was wrong to assume it was a PGP parse error, it does however look > > to be a?pkcs7 sig parse error... and I'm clueless about how to > > investigate that. > > :-) > > The list's content filtering was removing the > application/pkcs7-signature part. I have now added > application/pkcs7-signature to pass_mime_types > (application/pgp-signature was already passed). > > That should help. Thanks Mark! I completely missed guessing that it was a being stripped by content filtering. ? -Jim P. From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Thu Nov 1 18:48:44 2018 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 16:48:44 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GPG Sig parse error In-Reply-To: <1541101770.7202.2.camel@domainmail.org> References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <1541099497.2055.4.camel@domainmail.org> <1541101381.7202.0.camel@domainmail.org> <1541101770.7202.2.camel@domainmail.org> Message-ID: <48cc7888-be59-02b9-19ab-96742d6fd0ad@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 11/01/2018 01:49 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > Apologies Grant it this is too much discussion of you :-) I'm only trying > to get to the root of the issue. No problem. I'm using S/MIME, not PGP (GPG). Let's see if this makes it through happier. -- Grant. . . . unix || die -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3982 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From jimpop at domainmail.org Thu Nov 1 19:25:16 2018 From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2018 19:25:16 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GPG Sig parse error In-Reply-To: <48cc7888-be59-02b9-19ab-96742d6fd0ad@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <1541099497.2055.4.camel@domainmail.org> <1541101381.7202.0.camel@domainmail.org> <1541101770.7202.2.camel@domainmail.org> <48cc7888-be59-02b9-19ab-96742d6fd0ad@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: <1541114716.2120.0.camel@domainmail.org> On Thu, 2018-11-01 at 16:48 -0600, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote: > On 11/01/2018 01:49 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > > Apologies Grant it this is too much discussion of you :-) I'm only > > trying? > > to get to the root of the issue. > > No problem. > > I'm using S/MIME, not PGP (GPG). > > Let's see if this makes it through happier. Indeed it does. Thx again Mark for the changes, and Grant for testing. -Jim P. From dmagda at ee.ryerson.ca Fri Nov 2 10:42:03 2018 From: dmagda at ee.ryerson.ca (David Magda) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 10:42:03 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM3 on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3949B45B-D34D-40AA-82DE-225BE0E60F72@ee.ryerson.ca> You may want to contact the current MM2 port maintainer, mandree -at- FreeBSD.org https://www.freshports.org/mail/mailman/ > On Oct 22, 2018, at 09:41, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > I have finally read bits of documents here and there and managed to install > MM3 on a FreeBSD 11.2 server. This is for testing and getting to grasp the > new monster. Later, I hope I could run my MLs on MM3. > > So, so far, this is what I have done - all successfully: [?] From mark at msapiro.net Fri Nov 2 13:12:06 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 10:12:06 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM3 on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/22/18 6:41 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > What next now?? Edit the var/etc/mailman.cfg?? If necessary. > Then how to launch the MM3 queue runner? mailman start > Postorius? HyperKitty? etc? See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Nov 2 13:15:42 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 10:15:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM3 on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: P.S. A better list for Mailman 3 is . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From david at midrange.com Mon Nov 5 11:07:12 2018 From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 10:07:12 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & DMARC question Message-ID: Folks: I need a confirmation of a theory regarding Mailman (well, mailing lists in general) and DMARC. After updating to a version of MM that supports handling domains with DMARC policies, everything seems to be working OK. My quandary is: Is there any risk in implementing my own more restrictive DMARC policy? Currently my DMARC policy is 'p=none' ... but I'd like to change that to 'p=quarantine'. Is there any risk running mailing lists from a domain with that DMARC policy? My theory is that there isn't ... since DMARC is mainly concerned with the from address and, as long as mail sent from my domain aligns with the DMARC policy, everything should be good. Is this correct ... or am I missing something? Thanks! david -- IBM i on Power Systems: For when you can't afford to be out of business! I'm riding 615 miles (Yes, you read that right) in the American Diabetes Association's Tour de Cure to raise money for diabetes research, education, advocacy, and awareness. You can make a tax deductible donation to my ride by visiting https://gmane.diabetessucks.net. You can see where my donations come from by visiting my interactive donation map ... https://gmane.diabetessucks.net/map (it's a geeky thing). I may have diabetes, but diabetes doesn't have me! From jimpop at domainmail.org Mon Nov 5 16:03:45 2018 From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch) Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2018 16:03:45 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & DMARC question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1541451825.12167.1.camel@domainmail.org> On Mon, 2018-11-05 at 10:07 -0600, David Gibbs wrote: > My quandary is: Is there any risk in implementing my own more > restrictive DMARC policy? > > Currently my DMARC policy is 'p=none' ... but I'd like to change that > to 'p=quarantine'. > > Is there any risk running mailing lists from a domain with that DMARC > policy? > > My theory is that there isn't ... since DMARC is mainly concerned with > the from address and, as long as mail sent from my domain aligns with > the DMARC policy, everything should be good. > > Is this correct ... or am I missing something? You are correct, as long as the SPF and DKIM align you can set a restrictive DMARC policy. In addition to your p=none, you should add ruf= and rua= stanzas so that you can see today what impact your present DMARC settings have. DMARC on your list domain will also help with any delivery issues for list notifications, as well as any DMARC wrapped posts. Further, you can test your setup by creating a test list, and then subscribing and sending a list email to any of these: check-auth at verifier.port25.com autoreply at dmarctest.org autorespond+dkim at dk.elandsys.com check at dmarcanalyzer.com checkmyauth at auth.returnpath.net -Jim P. From housley at vigilsec.com Thu Nov 8 04:19:26 2018 From: housley at vigilsec.com (Russ Housley) Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 04:19:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 and EAI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <23D33972-817F-496E-87CD-2EC05862932E@vigilsec.com> As far as I can tell, Mailman 3 will not let me include an EAI email address as a mail list recipient. This was discussed more that two years ago, but I do not think the support in Mailman 3 has changed. I understand that EAI requires support for the SMTPUTF8 extension in all relays involved. I want to allow EAI subscribers, at least on a couple of test mail lists to figure out the consequences of allowing EAI on the whole infrastructure. Russ From mark at msapiro.net Thu Nov 8 19:03:30 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 16:03:30 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 and EAI In-Reply-To: <23D33972-817F-496E-87CD-2EC05862932E@vigilsec.com> References: <23D33972-817F-496E-87CD-2EC05862932E@vigilsec.com> Message-ID: <7d475560-62ef-0010-5f0d-022d26ed1d88@msapiro.net> On 11/8/18 1:19 AM, Russ Housley wrote: > As far as I can tell, Mailman 3 will not let me include an EAI email > address as a mail list recipient. This was discussed more that two > years ago, but I do not think the support in Mailman 3 has changed. Correct. It is still not supported. Also, a better list for discussion of Mailman 3 is . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bastian at binder.mx Thu Nov 8 17:24:39 2018 From: bastian at binder.mx (Bastian Binder) Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 23:24:39 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.18 - Users can not subscribe to mailing list References: <7e0e33a79470dd3bb9bbb5b2d54d3a43@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi @all, we are using Mailman 2.1.18 and on some mailing lists users receive an error message when trying to subscribe to the list on the listinfo page. The error occurs on the listinfo page in the "Subscribing to ..." section. If an email address is entered in the field "Your email address:" and the button "Subscribe" is pushed an error message appears ("You have to enter a valid email address"). The error occurs only on 2 mailing lists. The other mailing lists work fine. The mailman configuration has not changed. The main difference to the working lists is, that in the Form-URL on the listinfo page does forward to an URL where a "/cgi-bin" is added before "/mailman.." I would be happy if somebody could help us with this problem With best regards Bastian Binder From mark at msapiro.net Fri Nov 9 12:46:01 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 09:46:01 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.18 - Users can not subscribe to mailing list In-Reply-To: References: <7e0e33a79470dd3bb9bbb5b2d54d3a43@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/8/18 2:24 PM, Bastian Binder wrote: > > The error occurs only on 2 mailing lists. The other mailing lists work fine. The mailman configuration has not changed. The main difference to the working lists is, that in the Form-URL on the listinfo page does forward to an URL where a "/cgi-bin" is added before "/mailman.." The redirect loses the POST data. You need to ensure that your setting for DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN is what you want, perhaps something like DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/cgi-bin/' or maybe https, and then run fix_url on the problem lists. See and . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jaybird at bluegrasspals.com Wed Nov 14 14:53:57 2018 From: jaybird at bluegrasspals.com (Jayson Smith) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 14:53:57 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] DMARC mitigation failure Message-ID: Hi all, I have a weird one. This morning an AOL user posted to one of my lists. Normally this is no problem, since I have the list in question set to munge the From: of messages from problematic domains (AOL, Yahoo, etc). For some reason it didn't work this time. Naturally, I received bounce reports left and right, complaining about unauthenticated Email from AOL. Did my server fail to retrieve the DMARC information for AOL for some transient reason, or could there be another problem? I have double checked that the list is set to munge the From: of such messages, but it didn't this time. Thanks for any help, Jayson From mark at msapiro.net Wed Nov 14 17:25:00 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 14:25:00 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] DMARC mitigation failure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11/14/18 11:53 AM, Jayson Smith wrote: > > Did my server fail to retrieve the DMARC information for AOL for some > transient reason, or could there be another problem? I have double > checked that the list is set to munge the From: of such messages, but it > didn't this time. What's in Mailman's vette and error logs? and what Mailman version is this? Errors in retrieving DMARC policy should be logged in 'error'. Also, since Mailman 2.1.25, if the policy can't be retrieved, mitigations will be applied as if the policy were reject. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jaybird at bluegrasspals.com Wed Nov 14 17:35:26 2018 From: jaybird at bluegrasspals.com (Jayson Smith) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 17:35:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] DMARC mitigation failure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <337ad8ed-ce0b-4d0a-9d63-4bb6899c9d1a@bluegrasspals.com> Hi, The error in /var/lib/mailman/log/error is as follows: Nov 14 10:24:29 2018 (1063) DNS lookup for dmarc_moderation_action for list (Redacted) not available I recently upgraded a lot of packages on my Debian system. I compiled Mailman from source since Debian didn't have the version I wanted. Do I need to recompile and reinstall? Thanks, Jayson On 11/14/2018 5:25 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 11/14/18 11:53 AM, Jayson Smith wrote: >> Did my server fail to retrieve the DMARC information for AOL for some >> transient reason, or could there be another problem? I have double >> checked that the list is set to munge the From: of such messages, but it >> didn't this time. > > What's in Mailman's vette and error logs? and what Mailman version is this? > > Errors in retrieving DMARC policy should be logged in 'error'. Also, > since Mailman 2.1.25, if the policy can't be retrieved, mitigations will > be applied as if the policy were reject. > From mark at msapiro.net Wed Nov 14 18:09:13 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 15:09:13 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] DMARC mitigation failure In-Reply-To: <337ad8ed-ce0b-4d0a-9d63-4bb6899c9d1a@bluegrasspals.com> References: <337ad8ed-ce0b-4d0a-9d63-4bb6899c9d1a@bluegrasspals.com> Message-ID: <4955b53d-82e9-5619-23d6-b44c42e283fe@msapiro.net> On 11/14/18 2:35 PM, Jayson Smith wrote: > Hi, > > The error in /var/lib/mailman/log/error is as follows: > > Nov 14 10:24:29 2018 (1063) DNS lookup for dmarc_moderation_action for > list (Redacted) not available That says Mailman couldn't import dns.resolver. You need to have the dnspython package installed for Python. Get it from or or just do pip install dnspython -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From lucio at sulweb.org Thu Nov 15 07:54:51 2018 From: lucio at sulweb.org (Lucio) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 13:54:51 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non_members script install issue Message-ID: <2e28290e-c731-a421-df4e-0139bed854e8@sulweb.org> I'm trying to use the non_members script by Mark Sapiro, which can be downloaded here: https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/non_members on a Debian buster/sid amd64 system. # non_members Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/sbin/non_members", line 63, in import paths What should I do? From lucio at sulweb.org Thu Nov 15 10:30:32 2018 From: lucio at sulweb.org (Lucio) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:30:32 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non_members script install issue In-Reply-To: <2e28290e-c731-a421-df4e-0139bed854e8@sulweb.org> References: <2e28290e-c731-a421-df4e-0139bed854e8@sulweb.org> Message-ID: <21cfadc9-361e-e2c7-b8c5-65bcb166f23b@sulweb.org> I left part of the error message out by mistake: ImportError: No module named paths Il 15/11/18 13:54, Lucio ha scritto: > I'm trying to use the non_members script by Mark Sapiro, which can be > downloaded here: > > https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/non_members > > on a Debian buster/sid amd64 system. > > # non_members > Traceback (most recent call last): > ? File "/usr/local/sbin/non_members", line 63, in > ??? import paths > > What should I do? > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lucio%40sulweb.org From david at midrange.com Thu Nov 15 11:17:48 2018 From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 10:17:48 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help needed using postfix as an outbound gateway for Mailman Message-ID: Folks: I need some help diagnosing a problem using postfix as my outbound mail server with Mailman. Up front I want to say, I have this working FINE with my current mailman list server. I'm in the process of moving my list server to an AWS lightsail instance. And, yes, I know that I could use postfix as both the inbound & outbound mail server ... which I probably should do, but I'm far more familiar with using sendmail and have it setup & working fine on my current list server. I've got just about everything setup and working fine. The problem is, I'm seeing this in my mail log... Nov 15 15:41:43 lists postfix/smtp[18136]: AA76A61E61: to=, relay=none, delay=0.01, delays=0/0/0/0, dsn=5.4.6, status=bounced (mail for localhost loops back to myself) It _appears_ that postfix thinks it's the mail server for lists.atestdomain.net and can't deliver the mail because it doesn't know how to deliver the message. Here's my current setup: I have sendmail listening on the public SMTP ports on the server. I have postfix listening on localhost:24. Mailman is configured with the SMTPHOST & SMTPPORT set to localhost & 24. So mail is received by sendmail, sent to & processed by Mailman, and Mailman sends the mail out by connecting to postfix on localhost:24. The list mail is being delivered fine ... but bounces are not getting processed correctly. I have the domain lists.atestdomain.net listed in the transport map indicating that mail for that domain should be sent to localhost:25. You can see a relatively complete log fragment at https://code.midrange.com/e665e40f93.html Here's (what I think are) the relevant postfix config file entries ... main.cf: myhostname = listmail.arealdomain.com mydomain = $myhostname myorigin = $mydomain inet_interfaces = localhost mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport transport: lists.atestdomain.net smtp:localhost:25 listmail.arealdomain.com smtp:localhost:25 master.cf 24 inet n - n - - smtpd Any suggestions on what to look at? david -- IBM i on Power Systems: For when you can't afford to be out of business! I'm riding 615 miles (Yes, you read that right) in the American Diabetes Association's Tour de Cure to raise money for diabetes research, education, advocacy, and awareness. You can make a tax-deductible donation to my ride by visiting https://gmane.diabetessucks.net. You can see where my donations come from by visiting my interactive donation map ... https://gmane.diabetessucks.net/map (it's a geeky thing). I may have diabetes, but diabetes doesn't have me! From mark at msapiro.net Thu Nov 15 12:24:45 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 09:24:45 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non_members script install issue In-Reply-To: <2e28290e-c731-a421-df4e-0139bed854e8@sulweb.org> References: <2e28290e-c731-a421-df4e-0139bed854e8@sulweb.org> Message-ID: <42d2a2c4-0d14-79f8-9550-da15291dc3ac@msapiro.net> On 11/15/18 4:54 AM, Lucio wrote: > I'm trying to use the non_members script by Mark Sapiro, which can be > downloaded here: > > https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/non_members > > on a Debian buster/sid amd64 system. > > # non_members > Traceback (most recent call last): > ? File "/usr/local/sbin/non_members", line 63, in > ??? import paths > > What should I do? As it says in the script, "This script must run from Mailman's bin/ directory." I *think* on Debian this is /var/lib/mailman/bin/. Whatever directory it is, it is the one containing the actual Mailman bin/ scripts, not just symlinks, and also the paths.py file. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From lucio at sulweb.org Thu Nov 15 18:20:15 2018 From: lucio at sulweb.org (Lucio Crusca) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 00:20:15 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non_members script install issue In-Reply-To: <42d2a2c4-0d14-79f8-9550-da15291dc3ac@msapiro.net> References: <2e28290e-c731-a421-df4e-0139bed854e8@sulweb.org> <42d2a2c4-0d14-79f8-9550-da15291dc3ac@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <14d1d678-8909-4621-aa88-a0fcbacbe062@sulweb.org> On 15/11/18 18:24, Mark Sapiro wrote: > As it says in the script, "This script must run from Mailman's bin/ > directory." Sure, but it doesn't say "This script must be INSTALLED in the Mailman's bin/ directory." # cd /var/lib/mailman/bin # which non_members /usr/local/sbin/non_members # ls | grep paths.py paths.py paths.pyc # non_members Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/sbin/non_members", line 63, in import paths ImportError: No module named paths # mv /usr/local/sbin/non_members . # ./non_members Add or remove addresses to/from *_these_nonmembers [...] Thanks anyway, it now works. From mark at msapiro.net Thu Nov 15 18:59:59 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 15:59:59 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help needed using postfix as an outbound gateway for Mailman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <966c0721-b3bb-c613-282f-0d95485b984a@msapiro.net> On 11/15/18 8:17 AM, David Gibbs wrote: > > The problem is, I'm seeing this in my mail log... > > Nov 15 15:41:43 lists postfix/smtp[18136]: AA76A61E61: > to=, relay=none, delay=0.01, > delays=0/0/0/0, dsn=5.4.6, status=bounced (mail for localhost loops back > to myself) > > It _appears_ that postfix thinks it's the mail server for > lists.atestdomain.net and can't deliver the mail because it doesn't know > how to deliver the message. Exactly. Postfix thinks it is the delivery agent for all mail to any of the domains in mydestination which includes localhost. > Here's my current setup: ... > master.cf > 24????? inet? n?????? -?????? n?????? -?????? -?????? smtpd Is that all of master.cf? If there is an entry smtp inet n - y - - smtpd you might try removing that, or remove the 'localhost' entries from mydestination. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From christian.zimmer at berlin.de Fri Nov 16 06:12:15 2018 From: christian.zimmer at berlin.de (Christian Zimmer) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 12:12:15 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble wit Permission denied on /var/lib/mailman/logs/error Message-ID: <064e01d47d9d$3ca3eb20$b5ebc160$@zimmer@berlin.de> I am using ubuntu 18.4 LTS, apache 2.4.29, mailman 2.1.26 I have the problem that my mailman dies with "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.26 " The apache log says IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/logs/error': /srv/www/vhosts/lists.mydomain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin Obviously i moved the scripts admin, listinfo, etc. to /srv/www/vhosts/lists.mydomain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin because i didn't manage to make them work with apache 2.4 in the /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman directory. The files there were served instead of executed. I have all this "Options ExecCGI" and "SetHandler cgi-script" in my .conf. Mailman is running as user list, group list. The symbolic link "logs" in/var/lib/mailman is owned by root:list, has lrwxrwxrwx permissions and points to /var/log/mailman /var/log/mailman is owned by root:list with permissions drwxrwsr-x The files in /var/log/mailman (i.e. error) are all owned by root:list and have permissions rw-rw-r-- What is wrong ? From mark at msapiro.net Fri Nov 16 12:38:37 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 09:38:37 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble wit Permission denied on /var/lib/mailman/logs/error In-Reply-To: <064e01d47d9d$3ca3eb20$b5ebc160$@zimmer@berlin.de> References: <064e01d47d9d$3ca3eb20$b5ebc160$@zimmer@berlin.de> Message-ID: On 11/16/18 3:12 AM, Christian Zimmer wrote: > > The apache log says > > IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/logs/error': > /srv/www/vhosts/lists.mydomain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin > > > > Obviously i moved the scripts admin, listinfo, etc. to > /srv/www/vhosts/lists.mydomain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin because i didn't > manage to make them work with apache 2.4 in the /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman > directory. The files there were served instead of executed. I have all this > "Options ExecCGI" and "SetHandler cgi-script" in my .conf. Did your Apache conf have ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/ > Mailman is running as user list, group list. ... > The files in /var/log/mailman (i.e. error) are all owned by root:list and > have permissions rw-rw-r-- Is the file /srv/www/vhosts/lists.mydomain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin and the other wrappers there too group 'list' and SETGID? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jaybird at bluegrasspals.com Fri Nov 16 22:29:01 2018 From: jaybird at bluegrasspals.com (Jayson Smith) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 22:29:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] DMARC mitigation failure In-Reply-To: <4955b53d-82e9-5619-23d6-b44c42e283fe@msapiro.net> References: <337ad8ed-ce0b-4d0a-9d63-4bb6899c9d1a@bluegrasspals.com> <4955b53d-82e9-5619-23d6-b44c42e283fe@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <81330277-161b-82e1-6743-0453b91a0639@bluegrasspals.com> Hi, That did the trick, thanks! Jayson On 11/14/2018 6:09 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 11/14/18 2:35 PM, Jayson Smith wrote: >> Hi, >> >> The error in /var/lib/mailman/log/error is as follows: >> >> Nov 14 10:24:29 2018 (1063) DNS lookup for dmarc_moderation_action for >> list (Redacted) not available > > That says Mailman couldn't import dns.resolver. > > You need to have the dnspython package installed for Python. Get it from > or > or just do > > pip install dnspython > From james at dorydesign.com Sun Nov 18 16:51:41 2018 From: james at dorydesign.com (Jim Dory) Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2018 12:51:41 -0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Yahoo, AOL again Message-ID: For the last couple months I have been getting bounces from yahoo and aol subscribers. Hundreds a day, depending on list traffic. I think some mail gets through to them (the yahoo subscribers) but a lot gets bounced, if not all. None of the the subscribers have complained anyway about not receiving messages. Not sure what to do. I had been on Yahoo's what-cha-call-it when a user complains or marks a message as spam, I would be able to tell what users from a report Yahoo would send me. Assume I'm still subscribed to that service, but have not received any for a long time.. maybe this past summer got one or two. The bounces are similar to what follows: " @yahoo.com host mta5.am0.yahoodns.net [98.136.102.54] SMTP error from remote mail server after pipelined MAIL FROM:< nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com> SIZE=7608: 421 4.7.0 [TSS04] Messages from 198.252.110.38 temporarily deferred due to user complaints - 4.16.55.1; see https://help.yahoo.com/kb/postmaster/SLN3434.html: retry timeout exceeded" I'm also getting a few bounces from .me and .icloud accounts.. But that may be a different issue.. I don't know: " @me.com host mx3.mail.icloud.com [17.178.97.72] SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data: 550 5.7.1 [CS01] Message rejected due to local policy. Please visit https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204137" From mark at msapiro.net Sun Nov 18 17:48:31 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2018 14:48:31 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Yahoo, AOL again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87bb3767-3b5e-0393-8c76-0230edddc6d1@msapiro.net> On 11/18/18 1:51 PM, Jim Dory wrote: > > " @yahoo.com > host mta5.am0.yahoodns.net [98.136.102.54] > SMTP error from remote mail server after pipelined MAIL FROM:< > nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com> SIZE=7608: > 421 4.7.0 [TSS04] Messages from 198.252.110.38 temporarily deferred due > to user complaints - 4.16.55.1; see > https://help.yahoo.com/kb/postmaster/SLN3434.html: > retry timeout exceeded" The Yahoo page at has some tips. You may need to adjust the retry strategy of your MTA. > I'm also getting a few bounces from .me and .icloud accounts.. But that may > be a different issue.. I don't know: > > " @me.com > host mx3.mail.icloud.com [17.178.97.72] > SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data: > 550 5.7.1 [CS01] Message rejected due to local policy. Please visit > https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204137" Apple has recently started publishing p=quarantine for its {mac|me|icloud}.com domains. If you don't include p=quarantine (dmarc_quarantine_moderation_action = Yes) in your DMARC mitigations, you need to do so. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From james at dorydesign.com Sun Nov 18 18:43:10 2018 From: james at dorydesign.com (Jim Dory) Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2018 14:43:10 -0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Yahoo, AOL again In-Reply-To: <87bb3767-3b5e-0393-8c76-0230edddc6d1@msapiro.net> References: <87bb3767-3b5e-0393-8c76-0230edddc6d1@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 1:48 PM Mark Sapiro wrote: > > > > >The Yahoo page at > >has some tips. You may need to adjust the retry strategy of your MTA. > > > > >Apple has recently started publishing p=quarantine for its > >{mac|me|icloud}.com domains. If you don't include p=quarantine > >(dmarc_quarantine_moderation_action = Yes) in your DMARC mitigations, > >you need to do so. > > Thanks much Mark for quick reply. > > So my CPanel seems to only let me add an A, CNAME, MX record ... no TXT > option available. If I log into WHM interface, under Edit DNS Zone, I can > enter the following: > Domain= _dmarc TTL = 14400 Type = TXT and TXT= v=DMARC1; > p=quarantine; sp=none; rf=afrf; pct=100; ri=86400 > > When I hit save, it just shows v=DMARC1 , when I check back. I've also > just entered v=DMARC1;p=quarantine;pct=100; with same result. This is from > following some online tutorials for various hosts. > > Still haven't googled "retry strategies for MTAs" yet. /jd > From james at dorydesign.com Sun Nov 18 18:49:41 2018 From: james at dorydesign.com (Jim Dory) Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2018 14:49:41 -0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Yahoo, AOL again In-Reply-To: References: <87bb3767-3b5e-0393-8c76-0230edddc6d1@msapiro.net> Message-ID: Nevermind.. got it to take with some playing around. thanks and apologies. On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 2:43 PM Jim Dory wrote: > > > On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 1:48 PM Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> >> >> >> >The Yahoo page at >> >has some tips. You may need to adjust the retry strategy of your MTA. >> >> >> >> >Apple has recently started publishing p=quarantine for its >> >{mac|me|icloud}.com domains. If you don't include p=quarantine >> >(dmarc_quarantine_moderation_action = Yes) in your DMARC mitigations, >> >you need to do so. >> >> Thanks much Mark for quick reply. >> >> So my CPanel seems to only let me add an A, CNAME, MX record ... no TXT >> option available. If I log into WHM interface, under Edit DNS Zone, I can >> enter the following: >> Domain= _dmarc TTL = 14400 Type = TXT and TXT= v=DMARC1; >> p=quarantine; sp=none; rf=afrf; pct=100; ri=86400 >> >> When I hit save, it just shows v=DMARC1 , when I check back. I've also >> just entered v=DMARC1;p=quarantine;pct=100; with same result. This is from >> following some online tutorials for various hosts. >> >> Still haven't googled "retry strategies for MTAs" yet. /jd >> > From james at dorydesign.com Sun Nov 18 19:46:24 2018 From: james at dorydesign.com (Jim Dory) Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2018 15:46:24 -0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Yahoo, AOL again In-Reply-To: References: <87bb3767-3b5e-0393-8c76-0230edddc6d1@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 1:48 PM Mark Sapiro wrote: > > > > The Yahoo page at > has some tips. You may need to adjust the retry strategy of your MTA. > > > > So looking at the EXIM config on the host VPS server, there is a Section:RETRYSTART that is blank, A RETRYBLOCK that has this: +secondarymx * F,4h,5m; G,16h,1h,1.5; F,4d,8h * * F,2h,15m; G,16h,1h,1.5; F,4d,8h And a RETRYEND which is blank. So I suppose the RETRYBLOCK is where the edit would go. This server is basically just handling the mailman list, plus some very small traffic from server reports, website stuff (very rare), and other stuff not worth mentioning. So a couple attempts in case some server or service is down somewhere temporarily.. but otherwise I hardly think it should be trying for what looks like 4 days, if this is what I'm correctly seeing. Any one have thoughts on how to edit, given that qualification? /jim From mark at msapiro.net Sun Nov 18 23:27:32 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2018 20:27:32 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Yahoo, AOL again In-Reply-To: References: <87bb3767-3b5e-0393-8c76-0230edddc6d1@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <9a06a2e2-16a3-4ac1-0d72-00a84e56651a@msapiro.net> On 11/18/18 3:43 PM, Jim Dory wrote: > On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 1:48 PM Mark Sapiro wrote: > >>> Apple has recently started publishing p=quarantine for its >>> {mac|me|icloud}.com domains. If you don't include p=quarantine >>> (dmarc_quarantine_moderation_action = Yes) in your DMARC mitigations, >>> you need to do so. >> >> Thanks much Mark for quick reply. >> >> So my CPanel seems to only let me add an A, CNAME, MX record ... no TXT >> option available. If I log into WHM interface, under Edit DNS Zone, I can >> enter the following: >> Domain= _dmarc TTL = 14400 Type = TXT and TXT= v=DMARC1; >> p=quarantine; sp=none; rf=afrf; pct=100; ri=86400 >> >> When I hit save, it just shows v=DMARC1 , when I check back. I've also >> just entered v=DMARC1;p=quarantine;pct=100; with same result. This is from >> following some online tutorials for various hosts. You are publishing a DMARC record for your domain. This may or may not be desirable depending on your situation, bet if you do this, you also need to ensure that all outgoing mail from your domain is DKIM signed. What I was referring to is the DMARC mitigations within Mailman. I.e., in the web admin UI for your list at Privacy options... -> Sender filters, you want to ensure that dmarc_moderation_action is Munge From or Wrap Message as desired and dmarc_quarantine_moderation_action is Yes. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun Nov 18 23:45:39 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2018 20:45:39 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Yahoo, AOL again In-Reply-To: References: <87bb3767-3b5e-0393-8c76-0230edddc6d1@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On 11/18/18 4:46 PM, Jim Dory wrote: > So looking at the EXIM config on the host VPS server, there is a > Section:RETRYSTART that is blank, A RETRYBLOCK that has this: > > +secondarymx * F,4h,5m; G,16h,1h,1.5; F,4d,8h > * * F,2h,15m; G,16h,1h,1.5; F,4d,8h > > And a RETRYEND which is blank. So I suppose the RETRYBLOCK is where the > edit would go. I don't think you need any changes here. I'm not sure what the +secondarymx entry matches, but the default * * F,2h,15m; G,16h,1h,1.5; F,4d,8h says retry every 15 minutes for 2 hours, then at intervals starting at one hour and increasing by a factor of 1.5 until 16 hours have passed, then every 6 hours up to 4 days, after which if the message is still not delivered, it is bounced. This is a common strategy and should be OK. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From david at midrange.com Mon Nov 19 10:16:13 2018 From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 09:16:13 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help needed using postfix as an outbound gateway for Mailman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11/15/2018 10:17 AM, David Gibbs wrote: > And, yes, I know that I could use postfix as both the inbound & > outbound mail server ... which I probably should do, but I'm far more > familiar with using sendmail and have it setup & working fine on my > current list server. I decided to bite the bullet and switch to postfix for inbound & outbound mail. david -- IBM i on Power Systems: For when you can't afford to be out of business! I'm riding 615 miles (Yes, you read that right) in the American Diabetes Association's Tour de Cure to raise money for diabetes research, education, advocacy, and awareness. You can make a tax-deductible donation to my ride by visiting https://gmane.diabetessucks.net. You can see where my donations come from by visiting my interactive donation map ... https://gmane.diabetessucks.net/map (it's a geeky thing). I may have diabetes, but diabetes doesn't have me! From odhiambo at gmail.com Fri Nov 23 10:06:57 2018 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2018 18:06:57 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker Message-ID: Hi, I am wondering if the instructions given in https://wiki.list.org/DEV/Mailman%203.0/Mailman%203.0%20Suite%20Dockerfile are still valid. I am running Docker on Windows, and following these instructions, but it fails with: docker build -t mailman3 . ..... ..... ..... ln: failed to create symbolic link '/usr/bin/node': File exists The command '/bin/sh -c apt-get install -y nodejs npm && npm install -g less && ln -s /usr/bin/nodejs /usr/bin/node' returned a non-zero code: 1 -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft." From andrew at hodgson.io Fri Nov 23 11:02:53 2018 From: andrew at hodgson.io (Andrew Hodgson) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:02:53 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, As that uses Mailman-Bundler now its probably not the best way even if it still works. I would recommend looking at the repo here: https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman Hope this helps. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Mailman-Users [mailman-users-bounces+andrew=hodgson.io at python.org] on behalf of Odhiambo Washington [odhiambo at gmail.com] Sent: 23 November 2018 15:06 To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker Hi, I am wondering if the instructions given in https://wiki.list.org/DEV/Mailman%203.0/Mailman%203.0%20Suite%20Dockerfile are still valid. I am running Docker on Windows, and following these instructions, but it fails with: docker build -t mailman3 . ..... ..... ..... ln: failed to create symbolic link '/usr/bin/node': File exists The command '/bin/sh -c apt-get install -y nodejs npm && npm install -g less && ln -s /usr/bin/nodejs /usr/bin/node' returned a non-zero code: 1 -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft." ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/andrew%40hodgson.io From odhiambo at gmail.com Fri Nov 23 11:23:32 2018 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2018 19:23:32 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I looked at the link you've suggested and it seems like it's meant for someone running docker on Linux, not Windows which is what I'm trying to test this on. The mkdir /opt.. On Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 19:02 Andrew Hodgson Hi, > > As that uses Mailman-Bundler now its probably not the best way even if it > still works. I would recommend looking at the repo here: > > https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman > > Hope this helps. > Andrew. > ________________________________________ > From: Mailman-Users [mailman-users-bounces+andrew=hodgson.io at python.org] > on behalf of Odhiambo Washington [odhiambo at gmail.com] > Sent: 23 November 2018 15:06 > To: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker > > Hi, > > I am wondering if the instructions given in > https://wiki.list.org/DEV/Mailman%203.0/Mailman%203.0%20Suite%20Dockerfile > are still valid. > I am running Docker on Windows, and following these instructions, but it > fails with: > > docker build -t mailman3 . > ..... > ..... > ..... > ln: failed to create symbolic link '/usr/bin/node': File exists > The command '/bin/sh -c apt-get install -y nodejs npm && npm install -g > less && ln -s /usr/bin/nodejs /usr/bin/node' returned a non-zero code: > 1 > > > -- > Best regards, > Odhiambo WASHINGTON, > Nairobi,KE > +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 > "Oh, the cruft." > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/andrew%40hodgson.io > From andrew at hodgson.io Fri Nov 23 11:43:11 2018 From: andrew at hodgson.io (Andrew Hodgson) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:43:11 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Hi, Can't you just use the relevant volume mounts to the Windows box? I have ran these containers on Windows when I did testing, although I ran Postgres outside of the containers on the Windows machine itself as I have seen issues with volume mounts for that one. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Odhiambo Washington [odhiambo at gmail.com] Sent: 23 November 2018 16:23 To: Andrew Hodgson Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker I looked at the link you've suggested and it seems like it's meant for someone running docker on Linux, not Windows which is what I'm trying to test this on. The mkdir /opt.. On Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 19:02 Andrew Hodgson wrote: Hi, As that uses Mailman-Bundler now its probably not the best way even if it still works. I would recommend looking at the repo here: https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman Hope this helps. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Mailman-Users [mailman-users-bounces+andrew=hodgson.io at python.org] on behalf of Odhiambo Washington [odhiambo at gmail.com] Sent: 23 November 2018 15:06 To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker Hi, I am wondering if the instructions given in https://wiki.list.org/DEV/Mailman%203.0/Mailman%203.0%20Suite%20Dockerfile are still valid. I am running Docker on Windows, and following these instructions, but it fails with: docker build -t mailman3 . ..... ..... ..... ln: failed to create symbolic link '/usr/bin/node': File exists The command '/bin/sh -c apt-get install -y nodejs npm && npm install -g less && ln -s /usr/bin/nodejs /usr/bin/node' returned a non-zero code: 1 -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft." ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/andrew%40hodgson.io From odhiambo at gmail.com Fri Nov 23 11:50:27 2018 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2018 19:50:27 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll try that then. On Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 19:43 Andrew Hodgson Hi, > > Can't you just use the relevant volume mounts to the Windows box? I have > ran these containers on Windows when I did testing, although I ran Postgres > outside of the containers on the Windows machine itself as I have seen > issues with volume mounts for that one. > > Andrew. > > ________________________________________ > From: Odhiambo Washington [odhiambo at gmail.com] > Sent: 23 November 2018 16:23 > To: Andrew Hodgson > Cc: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker > > I looked at the link you've suggested and it seems like it's meant for > someone running docker on Linux, not Windows which is what I'm trying to > test this on. The mkdir /opt.. > > On Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 19:02 Andrew Hodgson andrew at hodgson.io> wrote: > Hi, > > As that uses Mailman-Bundler now its probably not the best way even if it > still works. I would recommend looking at the repo here: > > https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman > > Hope this helps. > Andrew. > ________________________________________ > From: Mailman-Users [mailman-users-bounces+andrew=hodgson.io at python.org > ] on behalf of Odhiambo Washington [ > odhiambo at gmail.com] > Sent: 23 November 2018 15:06 > To: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker > > Hi, > > I am wondering if the instructions given in > https://wiki.list.org/DEV/Mailman%203.0/Mailman%203.0%20Suite%20Dockerfile > are still valid. > I am running Docker on Windows, and following these instructions, but it > fails with: > > docker build -t mailman3 . > ..... > ..... > ..... > ln: failed to create symbolic link '/usr/bin/node': File exists > The command '/bin/sh -c apt-get install -y nodejs npm && npm install -g > less && ln -s /usr/bin/nodejs /usr/bin/node' returned a non-zero code: > 1 > > > -- > Best regards, > Odhiambo WASHINGTON, > Nairobi,KE > +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 > "Oh, the cruft." > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org Mailman-Users at python.org> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/andrew%40hodgson.io > From jaybird at bluegrasspals.com Sun Nov 25 00:17:38 2018 From: jaybird at bluegrasspals.com (Jayson Smith) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2018 00:17:38 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT - Smart .forward replacement? Message-ID: <8f77375e-6a50-7a7d-d87a-6b67614e4ee0@bluegrasspals.com> Hi, I've been using .forward to forward Email from some user mailboxes to other addresses. Normally this works just fine, but a few weeks ago a situation happened which demonstrates how it can be an epic fail. I had a Mailman/DNS problem after upgrading a lot of packages. A message came in, Mailman couldn't properly look up the DMARC policy of the sending ISP, didn't munge the From: and sent the message on its way, and of course the message was from AOL, just about everybody rejected it, I woke up to fifty-five bounce reports?and all those bounce reports were also forwarded to an Email account on an Internet by telephone service, where deleting them was extremely slow. What I'm looking for is possibly something that checks mailboxes from time to time, and forwards all incoming messages that meet certain parameters, taking care of DMARC difficulties along the way so the forwarded messages will be accepted by the remote servers. E.G. my mom uses that net by phone service, and would like to see Email which comes to her regular Email address, but doesn't want to spend time deleting Amazon order confirmations, Mailman moderation notices, and other routine, automated, or irrelevant messages. Does such a thing exist? Thanks for any help, Jayson From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Sun Nov 25 01:38:03 2018 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2018 23:38:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT - Smart .forward replacement? In-Reply-To: <8f77375e-6a50-7a7d-d87a-6b67614e4ee0@bluegrasspals.com> References: <8f77375e-6a50-7a7d-d87a-6b67614e4ee0@bluegrasspals.com> Message-ID: <8ebc18f3-c092-592e-f441-c16da95b286c@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 11/24/18 10:17 PM, Jayson Smith wrote: > Hi, Hi, > I've been using .forward to forward Email from some user mailboxes to > other addresses. Normally this works just fine, but a few weeks ago a > situation happened which demonstrates how it can be an epic fail. I had > a Mailman/DNS problem after upgrading a lot of packages. A message came > in, Mailman couldn't properly look up the DMARC policy of the sending > ISP, didn't munge the From: and sent the message on its way, and of > course the message was from AOL, just about everybody rejected it, I > woke up to fifty-five bounce reports?and all those bounce reports were > also forwarded to an Email account on an Internet by telephone service, > where deleting them was extremely slow. Oy vey. > What I'm looking for is possibly something that checks mailboxes from > time to time, and forwards all incoming messages that meet certain > parameters, taking care of DMARC difficulties along the way so the > forwarded messages will be accepted by the remote servers. E.G. my mom > uses that net by phone service, and would like to see Email which comes > to her regular Email address, but doesn't want to spend time deleting > Amazon order confirmations, Mailman moderation notices, and other > routine, automated, or irrelevant messages. Does such a thing exist? This really sounds like the job of an intelligent Local Delivery Agent. Procmail is (used to be) the quintessential LDA for unix. I think Maildrop is a modern replacement. I suspect that more complex mail stores have similar functionality. In short, you configure the LDA to intelligently handle various messages and decide what to do with them. You would likely want to filter messages matching one (or more) pattern(s) and then forward other messages matching, possibly with some form of munging. It may be possible to press Mailman into this service by creating a list of one (or few) subscribers and relying on Mailman's filters / topics to decide who to deliver to. But I feel like this is not what Mailman is designed to do and would likely be fraught with failure. > Thanks for any help, You're welcome. Good luck. P.S. Feel free to email me directly / off list if you want help with Procmail. -- Grant. . . . unix || die -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4008 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From fmouse at fmp.com Sun Nov 25 13:43:06 2018 From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2018 12:43:06 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT - Smart .forward replacement? In-Reply-To: <8f77375e-6a50-7a7d-d87a-6b67614e4ee0@bluegrasspals.com> References: <8f77375e-6a50-7a7d-d87a-6b67614e4ee0@bluegrasspals.com> Message-ID: <1543171386.67837.37.camel@fmp.com> On Sun, 2018-11-25 at 00:17 -0500, Jayson Smith wrote: > I've been using .forward to forward Email from some user mailboxes to? > other addresses. Normally this works just fine, but a few weeks ago a? > situation happened which demonstrates how it can be an epic fail. I had? > a Mailman/DNS problem after upgrading a lot of packages. How does a .forward problem relate to Mailman? Please excuse my ignorance if this is obvious. I use Courier-MTA and the equivalent facility is the .courier file, which redirects email. In the case of Mailman mailing lists, I use the courier-to-mailman.py as a target in a .courier file to redirect _internally_ into Mailman. Otherwise external redirection in a .forward file (which is an ancient and venerable sendmail facility) can (probably will) cause problems if the redirection is from a "p=reject" domain to a service, such as Gmail, which honors this. > A message came? > in, Mailman couldn't properly look up the DMARC policy of the sending? > ISP, didn't munge the From: and sent the message on its way, and of? > course the message was from AOL, just about everybody rejected it, I? > woke up to fifty-five bounce reports?and all those bounce reports were? > also forwarded to an Email account on an Internet by telephone service,? > where deleting them was extremely slow. Setting from_is_list to "Munge From" in General Options will apply DMARC mitigation to _all_ From addresses. I believe this takes precedence over dmarc_moderation_action which requires a DNS lookup of the sender's DMARC policy. It might be a good idea to use this setting preemptively any time you make system changes (or may have problems) which may affect the ability of Mailman to do a proper DNS lookup of a sender.s DMARC policy. > What I'm looking for is possibly something that checks mailboxes from? > time to time, and forwards all incoming messages that meet certain? > parameters, taking care of DMARC difficulties along the way so the? > forwarded messages will be accepted by the remote servers. E.G. my mom? > uses that net by phone service, and would like to see Email which comes? > to her regular Email address, but doesn't want to spend time deleting? > Amazon order confirmations, Mailman moderation notices, and other? > routine, automated, or irrelevant messages. Does such a thing exist? Leaving from_is_list set to "Munge From" will take care of any DNS outages, if you don't mind doing this. When it comes to specialized software to do things such as scan mailboxes and take intelligent action, I've found that I pretty much have to write my own, python being my preferred language. -- Lindsay Haisley | "The first casualty when FMP Computer Services | war comes is truth." 512-259-1190 | http://www.fmp.com | -- Hiram W Johnson From dandrews at visi.com Sun Nov 25 13:50:24 2018 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2018 12:50:24 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] What file to Delete Message-ID: I have a couple lists that had large numbers of subscribe attempts that are now being held for confirmation -- tens of thousands of them. Since there is no choice in the UI to delete them all at once -- what file do I delete to get rid of them? I am running 2.1.27 cPanel, although I don't think that matters. I do have access to the command line. Dave From mark at msapiro.net Sun Nov 25 14:06:00 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2018 11:06:00 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT - Smart .forward replacement? In-Reply-To: <1543171386.67837.37.camel@fmp.com> References: <8f77375e-6a50-7a7d-d87a-6b67614e4ee0@bluegrasspals.com> <1543171386.67837.37.camel@fmp.com> Message-ID: <124a76f8-3352-7536-c620-ab914532c529@msapiro.net> On 11/25/18 10:43 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > > How does a .forward problem relate to Mailman? Please excuse my > ignorance if this is obvious. I use Courier-MTA and the equivalent > facility is the .courier file, which redirects email. In the case of > Mailman mailing lists, I use the courier-to-mailman.py as a target in a > .courier file to redirect _internally_ into Mailman. Otherwise external > redirection in a .forward file (which is an ancient and venerable > sendmail facility) can (probably will) cause problems if the > redirection is from a "p=reject" domain to a service, such as Gmail, > which honors this. A .forward normally does not cause issues with DMARC because .forward redirection normally does not transform the message in ways that break DKIM signatures. Thus if the original message was DKIM signed by a domain "aligned" with the From: domain, the forwarded message should still pass DMARC. There is only an issue if the original sender was relying on SPF only to pass DMARC. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun Nov 25 14:13:47 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2018 11:13:47 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT - Smart .forward replacement? In-Reply-To: <8f77375e-6a50-7a7d-d87a-6b67614e4ee0@bluegrasspals.com> References: <8f77375e-6a50-7a7d-d87a-6b67614e4ee0@bluegrasspals.com> Message-ID: On 11/24/18 9:17 PM, Jayson Smith wrote: > > I had > a Mailman/DNS problem after upgrading a lot of packages. A message came > in, Mailman couldn't properly look up the DMARC policy of the sending > ISP, didn't munge the From: and sent the message on its way... What was the lookup issue? I.e., what were the messages in Mailman's error and maybe vette logs? What Mailman version is this?, beginning with Mailman 2.1.25, some failures in DNS lookups of DMARC policy result in mitigations being applied. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fmouse at fmp.com Sun Nov 25 14:12:20 2018 From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2018 13:12:20 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT - Smart .forward replacement? In-Reply-To: <124a76f8-3352-7536-c620-ab914532c529@msapiro.net> References: <8f77375e-6a50-7a7d-d87a-6b67614e4ee0@bluegrasspals.com> <1543171386.67837.37.camel@fmp.com> <124a76f8-3352-7536-c620-ab914532c529@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <1543173140.67837.39.camel@fmp.com> On Sun, 2018-11-25 at 11:06 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > A .forward normally does not cause issues with DMARC because .forward > redirection normally does not transform the message in ways that break > DKIM signatures. Thus if the original message was DKIM signed by a > domain "aligned" with the From: domain, the forwarded message should > still pass DMARC. There is only an issue if the original sender was > relying on SPF only to pass DMARC. Similarly, if you're using from_is_list in Mailman, or?dmarc_moderation_action, the domain name associated with the list must have a proper SPF record. -- Lindsay Haisley | "The first casualty when FMP Computer Services | war comes is truth." 512-259-1190 | http://www.fmp.com | -- Hiram W Johnson From mark at msapiro.net Sun Nov 25 14:36:00 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2018 11:36:00 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] What file to Delete In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11/25/18 10:50 AM, David Andrews wrote: > I have a couple lists that had large numbers of subscribe attempts that > are now being held for confirmation -- tens of thousands of them. Since > there is no choice in the UI to delete them all at once -- what file do > I delete to get rid of them?? I am running 2.1.27 cPanel, although I > don't think that matters. I do have access to the command line. I suspect you mean the subscriptions are waiting moderator approval in the admindb UI. If these are the only things waiting moderator approval for a list, you can remove the list's request.pck file and that will remove all moderator requests for the list. A new file will be automatically recreated when needed. In cPanel this is /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/lists//request.pck. If you want to be more selective, see the scripts at and . You would need to copy these to /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/ and run them as a user that has write access to Mailman. See a brief description of these at https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/ or install them and run with the --help option. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun Nov 25 14:42:22 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2018 11:42:22 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT - Smart .forward replacement? In-Reply-To: <1543173140.67837.39.camel@fmp.com> References: <8f77375e-6a50-7a7d-d87a-6b67614e4ee0@bluegrasspals.com> <1543171386.67837.37.camel@fmp.com> <124a76f8-3352-7536-c620-ab914532c529@msapiro.net> <1543173140.67837.39.camel@fmp.com> Message-ID: <78cb9448-0afc-780b-7af5-123d4e7f12bd@msapiro.net> On 11/25/18 11:12 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > > Similarly, if you're using from_is_list in Mailman, > or?dmarc_moderation_action, the domain name associated with the list > must have a proper SPF record. These days, publishing SPF and DKIM signing outgoing mail is good practice in general, but it has nothing to do with DMARC unless the list domain publishes a DMARC policy. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fmouse at fmp.com Sun Nov 25 15:03:14 2018 From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley (linode)) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2018 14:03:14 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT - Smart .forward replacement? In-Reply-To: <124a76f8-3352-7536-c620-ab914532c529@msapiro.net> References: <8f77375e-6a50-7a7d-d87a-6b67614e4ee0@bluegrasspals.com> <1543171386.67837.37.camel@fmp.com> <124a76f8-3352-7536-c620-ab914532c529@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <05CE18B2-5644-4E7E-94FE-5ED1DB6835FF@fmp.com> On Nov 25, 2018, at 1:06 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > A .forward normally does not cause issues with DMARC because .forward > redirection normally does not transform the message in ways that break > DKIM signatures. Which assumes that the sending system includes a DKIM signature in the original message. If it does not, and the receiving system relies on SPF for DMARC alignment, then DMARC will fail since mail redirected through a .forward will always fail SPF validation. Sent from my iPhone From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Sun Nov 25 15:28:21 2018 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2018 13:28:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT - Smart .forward replacement? In-Reply-To: <05CE18B2-5644-4E7E-94FE-5ED1DB6835FF@fmp.com> References: <8f77375e-6a50-7a7d-d87a-6b67614e4ee0@bluegrasspals.com> <1543171386.67837.37.camel@fmp.com> <124a76f8-3352-7536-c620-ab914532c529@msapiro.net> <05CE18B2-5644-4E7E-94FE-5ED1DB6835FF@fmp.com> Message-ID: <0b34f1ed-9492-a5dd-e85e-869eb039db59@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 11/25/18 1:03 PM, Lindsay Haisley (linode) wrote: > mail redirected through a .forward will always fail SPF validation. That is not always accurate. It is relatively easy to configure an MTA to support Sender Rewriting Scheme, either for everything that is sent out or just things that don't originate from the system. Thus a .forward is not guaranteed to fail SPF validation. In fact, I would expect SPF validation to succeed on servers that are configured with SRS. -- Grant. . . . unix || die -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4008 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Sun Nov 25 15:58:29 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2018 12:58:29 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Spam?} Re: OT - Smart .forward replacement? In-Reply-To: <0b34f1ed-9492-a5dd-e85e-869eb039db59@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> References: <8f77375e-6a50-7a7d-d87a-6b67614e4ee0@bluegrasspals.com> <1543171386.67837.37.camel@fmp.com> <124a76f8-3352-7536-c620-ab914532c529@msapiro.net> <05CE18B2-5644-4E7E-94FE-5ED1DB6835FF@fmp.com> <0b34f1ed-9492-a5dd-e85e-869eb039db59@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: <14710c1e-30e7-c8f4-5907-e4c2d9f73728@msapiro.net> On 11/25/18 12:28 PM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote: > On 11/25/18 1:03 PM, Lindsay Haisley (linode) wrote: >> mail redirected through a .forward? will always fail SPF validation. > > That is not always accurate.? It is relatively easy to configure an MTA > to support Sender Rewriting Scheme, either for everything that is sent > out or just things that don't originate from the system. > > Thus a .forward is not guaranteed to fail SPF validation.? In fact, I > would expect SPF validation to succeed on servers that are configured > with SRS. Yes, but in the context of this thread which is DMARC, SPF will pass, but the SPF domain won't align with the From: domain so DMARC validation by SPF will fail. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From list at ziobro.rochester.ny.us Wed Nov 28 16:39:46 2018 From: list at ziobro.rochester.ny.us (Jim Ziobro) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 16:39:46 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler v3 In-Reply-To: <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: I started with the 2008 version of mm-handler.? My original goal was to fix a couple of bugs: lower case conversion and forwarding mail to POSTMASTER.? But I rewrote it to remove stuff which will never get executed and remove other things which might cause future bugs.? mm-handler went from 300 lines to 165 lines.? I have the source and a README on: http://sw.ziobro.info/mm-handler/ This simpler version can drop in where previous versions are used. The v2 version optionally cut out the aliases: list-join and list-leave.? This was an attempt to reduce "backscatter."? However the v2 version left in the alias list-request so any backscatter caused by the other aliases could just as easily been created through the list-request alias.? Backscatter is something I am fuzzy about. The v3 version by default will forward mail that does not match a list to the local mail system.? It could be used to support lists on top of an existing mail domain. As I was working on this I came to understand more about how Mailman works.? I now realize that mm-handler would not be necessary if Mailman fully connected to Sendmail.? The Postfix connection looks very close.? I'll take a crack at it. Enjoy! Ciao, //Z\\ Jim Ziobro From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Wed Nov 28 17:27:21 2018 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:27:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler v3 In-Reply-To: References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: <77dedf3d-1006-42af-0609-962c8c0a8a1d@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 11/28/2018 02:39 PM, Jim Ziobro wrote: > I now realize that mm-handler would not be necessary if Mailman fully > connected to Sendmail.? The Postfix connection looks very close. Please elaborate on what you mean by "if Mailman fully connected to Sendmail". Rather, how is Mailman not already connected to Sendmail via mm-handler? Or is your goal to remove mm-handler and directly configure Mailman itself as what Sendmail refers to as a "Mailer"? Note: I'm assuming that mm-handler is configured as a Mailer and that Sendmail is using mailertable to route domain(s) that Mailman uses into Mailman via mm-handler. - I don't have any extra steps or intermediary Local Delivery Agents. -- Grant. . . . unix || die -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4008 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Wed Nov 28 17:29:50 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:29:50 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler v3 In-Reply-To: References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: <32355d36-74b3-76ca-1166-44cbe5969ed1@msapiro.net> On 11/28/18 1:39 PM, Jim Ziobro wrote: > > As I was working on this I came to understand more about how Mailman > works.? I now realize that mm-handler would not be necessary if Mailman > fully connected to Sendmail.? The Postfix connection looks very close.? > I'll take a crack at it. See and the various things linked from there. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Wed Nov 28 20:50:50 2018 From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 10:50:50 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT - Smart .forward replacement? In-Reply-To: References: <8f77375e-6a50-7a7d-d87a-6b67614e4ee0@bluegrasspals.com> Message-ID: <23551.17914.882936.557039@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Mark Sapiro writes: > On 11/24/18 9:17 PM, Jayson Smith wrote: > > I had a Mailman/DNS problem after upgrading a lot of packages. A > > message came in, Mailman couldn't properly look up the DMARC > > policy of the sending ISP, didn't munge the From: and sent the > > message on its way... > > What was the lookup issue? I.e., what were the messages in Mailman's > error and maybe vette logs? What Mailman version is this?, beginning > with Mailman 2.1.25, some failures in DNS lookups of DMARC policy result > in mitigations being applied. Another possibility would be to cache the results, as a fallback to the DNS lookup. If the cache hit rate is high enough (as it would be for members-only lists -- the member test would be done first), this should reduce DMARC lookup failures to near zero, which would allow either mitigation-on-failure or quarantine-on-failure strategies by default. A more complex approach would be to lookup in the cache first and trust it until the original lookup expires. Both approaches would have to be opt-in, of course. I don't think either the space impact or performance impact would be very great. A brief RFE for Mailman 3 (which keeps a much more extensive database, so is more likely to implement) is in https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/527. Steve -- Associate Professor Division of Policy and Planning Science http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/ Faculty of Systems and Information Email: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tel: 029-853-5175 Tennodai 1-1-1, Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN From list at ziobro.rochester.ny.us Thu Nov 29 04:00:08 2018 From: list at ziobro.rochester.ny.us (Jim Ziobro) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 04:00:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler or aliases to integrate with sendmail In-Reply-To: <77dedf3d-1006-42af-0609-962c8c0a8a1d@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <77dedf3d-1006-42af-0609-962c8c0a8a1d@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: <2f0ccdc6-0a25-8924-b8e7-c2ee5c91315e@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> Mm-handler is definitely a cool idea. But it seems that once Mailman can update Sendmail's aliases immediately there is no need for mm-handler. I need to test my understanding.? Is setting MTA to 'Postfix' supposed to cover the 'Sendmail' case with some changes or should there be a specific MTA file to cover Sendmail? According to: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037518.html it is just a matter of changing POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD to something different.? I either missed the article or I didn't understand it the first time I looked at the docs.? This seems like it might be easier to maintain and setup than the mm-handler.? At least it is the way I would have chosen. Mark, Thanks for the pointer! Ciao, //Z\\ On 11/28/2018 5:27 PM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote: > On 11/28/2018 02:39 PM, Jim Ziobro wrote: >> I now realize that mm-handler would not be necessary if Mailman fully >> connected to Sendmail.? The Postfix connection looks very close. > > Please elaborate on what you mean by "if Mailman fully connected to > Sendmail".? Rather, how is Mailman not already connected to Sendmail > via mm-handler? > > Or is your goal to remove mm-handler and directly configure Mailman > itself as what Sendmail refers to as a "Mailer"? > From mark at msapiro.net Thu Nov 29 11:31:27 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 08:31:27 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler or aliases to integrate with sendmail In-Reply-To: <2f0ccdc6-0a25-8924-b8e7-c2ee5c91315e@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <77dedf3d-1006-42af-0609-962c8c0a8a1d@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <2f0ccdc6-0a25-8924-b8e7-c2ee5c91315e@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> Message-ID: <0ac34daf-9a27-623a-320c-f4e2f62bdb73@msapiro.net> On 11/29/18 1:00 AM, Jim Ziobro wrote: > > I need to test my understanding.? Is setting MTA to 'Postfix' supposed > to cover the 'Sendmail' case with some changes or should there be a > specific MTA file to cover Sendmail? Mailman has a feature to create aliases and possibly virtual alias maps for delivery to Postfix. This has only been implemented for Postfix. It is quite possible to hijack this feature for use with sendmail and people have done so and documented it. This requires setting MTA = 'Postfix' so that Mailman will generate and maintain its data/aliases file containing the list aliases. This also tells Mailman to run the command defined in the POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD setting to update the alias database from the generated data/aliases file. For sendmail, one needs to make a script to do the right thing for the sendmail aliases and set POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD to run that script. This is basically what's documented in steps 1 and 2 at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Thu Nov 29 11:51:27 2018 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 09:51:27 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler or aliases to integrate with sendmail In-Reply-To: <2f0ccdc6-0a25-8924-b8e7-c2ee5c91315e@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> References: <74a45a61-c9bd-9519-1107-3f55a0ad60ef@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> <7982827d-cea2-6e52-370a-68f3a0eb7369@msapiro.net> <79fec478-328b-ee31-5193-6d5f789bef40@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <8b40f070-c302-c7ce-6f02-e7b9ea1dde35@msapiro.net> <32ca48f8-1e39-390f-7965-e2c148282ad1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <77dedf3d-1006-42af-0609-962c8c0a8a1d@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <2f0ccdc6-0a25-8924-b8e7-c2ee5c91315e@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> Message-ID: <47a4d874-1862-488e-c65d-edd512f8dfab@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 11/29/2018 02:00 AM, Jim Ziobro wrote: > Mm-handler is definitely a cool idea. But it seems that once Mailman can > update Sendmail's aliases immediately there is no need for mm-handler. I view things a little bit differently. Why should I need to reconfigure the MTA when I'm making a change to a different (sub)system. Specifically, why to I need to add / change / remove MTA aliases when I'm changing Mailman? With mm-handler, I don't need to reconfigure the MTA at all. I can add / change / remove mailing lists to / from Mailman all I want. Granted, I am hosting my mailing lists in their own subdomain that is routed to Mailman. I acknowledge that aliases are required if you want to mix mailing lists and mailboxes in the same (sub)domain. (I do wonder if LDAP routing might change this.) > According to: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037518.html > it is just a matter of changing POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD to something > different.? I either missed the article or I didn't understand it the > first time I looked at the docs.? This seems like it might be easier to > maintain and setup than the mm-handler.? At least it is the way I would > have chosen. That purportedly works. But I have always felt that the separate (sub)domain was cleaner from an MTA / email routing perspective. Particularly if you try to have user mailboxes (one domain) on an Exchange server and mailing lists (a different domain) on another server. -- Grant. . . . unix || die -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4008 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From fsantiago at garbage-juice.com Thu Nov 29 16:26:30 2018 From: fsantiago at garbage-juice.com (Fabian A. Santiago) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 21:26:30 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] can you set 'notmetoo' by default for all new subs? Message-ID: hi, as my subject states, can you set 'notmetoo' by default for all new subs? -- Thanks, Fabian S. OpenPGP: 0x643082042DC83E6D94B86C405E3DAA18A1C22D8F From mark at msapiro.net Thu Nov 29 17:00:41 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 14:00:41 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] can you set 'notmetoo' by default for all new subs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11/29/18 1:26 PM, Fabian A. Santiago wrote: > hi, > > as my subject states, can you set 'notmetoo' by default for all new subs? On the list admin General Options page there is a new_member_options setting with 4 check boxes Conceal the member's address Acknowledge the member's posting Do not send a copy of a member's own post Filter out duplicate messages to list members (if possible) These are the settings for new members for the options shown in the membership list ads "hide", "ack", "not metoo" and "nodupes" respectively. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fsantiago at garbage-juice.com Fri Nov 30 08:58:28 2018 From: fsantiago at garbage-juice.com (Fabian A. Santiago) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 13:58:28 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] can you set 'notmetoo' by default for all new subs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: thank you. i was just going to email the list stating that i had found that. thanks again. -- Thanks, Fabian S. OpenPGP: 0x643082042DC83E6D94B86C405E3DAA18A1C22D8F ??????? Original Message ??????? On Thursday, November 29, 2018 5:00 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 11/29/18 1:26 PM, Fabian A. Santiago wrote: > > > hi, > > as my subject states, can you set 'notmetoo' by default for all new subs? > > On the list admin General Options page there is a new_member_options > setting with 4 check boxes > > Conceal the member's address > Acknowledge the member's posting > Do not send a copy of a member's own post > Filter out duplicate messages to list members (if possible) > > These are the settings for new members for the options shown in the > membership list ads "hide", "ack", "not metoo" and "nodupes" respectively. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Mark Sapiro mark at msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, > > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/fsantiago%40garbage-juice.com From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Fri Nov 30 12:18:32 2018 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 10:18:32 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] UTF-8 and digests... Message-ID: <6cf8740b-cca0-b119-7cfa-9b283ce50def@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Is it expected that Mailman will preserve UTF-8 (punctuation symbols) in non-MIME digests? I'm having errors reported to me from (non-MIME) digest subscribers to lists mailing lists. Is this a known limitation of non-MIME digests? Or is it possibly a symptom of a problem? -- Grant. . . . unix || die -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4008 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Fri Nov 30 12:33:21 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 09:33:21 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] UTF-8 and digests... In-Reply-To: <6cf8740b-cca0-b119-7cfa-9b283ce50def@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> References: <6cf8740b-cca0-b119-7cfa-9b283ce50def@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: <52acba55-5976-706b-a58e-9e80fa9f6b5a@msapiro.net> On 11/30/18 9:18 AM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote: > Is it expected that Mailman will preserve UTF-8 (punctuation symbols) in > non-MIME digests? It depends. > Is this a known limitation of non-MIME digests?? Or is it possibly a > symptom of a problem? Plain text digests are encoded in Mailman's character set for the list's preferred_language. For English, this is us-ascii unless you've changed it. Thus, non-ascii unicodes will be rendered as '?' in the plain digest. You can change Mailman's character set for English to UTF-8 by putting add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8', 'ltr') in mm_cfg.py but this has other side effects. Most importantly, the Python email library encodes utf-8 message bodies as base64. this makes it difficult to find messages in mailboxes with tools like grep. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Fri Nov 30 13:22:50 2018 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 11:22:50 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] UTF-8 and digests... In-Reply-To: <52acba55-5976-706b-a58e-9e80fa9f6b5a@msapiro.net> References: <6cf8740b-cca0-b119-7cfa-9b283ce50def@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <52acba55-5976-706b-a58e-9e80fa9f6b5a@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <52211e63-f82a-69a6-df17-ed9dc73278ac@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 11/30/2018 10:33 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Plain text digests are encoded in Mailman's character set for the list's > preferred_language. For English, this is us-ascii unless you've changed > it. Thus, non-ascii unicodes will be rendered as '?' in the plain digest. > > You can change Mailman's character set for English to UTF-8 by putting > > add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8', 'ltr') > > in mm_cfg.py but this has other side effects. Most importantly, the > Python email library encodes utf-8 message bodies as base64. this makes > it difficult to find messages in mailboxes with tools like grep. Thank you for the clarification Mark. That accounts for what I'm seeing. -- Grant. . . . unix || die -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4008 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From mgoebel at emich.edu Fri Nov 30 17:17:30 2018 From: mgoebel at emich.edu (Matthew Goebel) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 17:17:30 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some site blocking our emails from mailman 2.1.29 ? Message-ID: Hello, We've recently had one or two sites block email coming from one of our lists. They seem to indicate it is because of sending address having bounces in it? ie... listname-bounces at list.emich.edu This seems odd, and I'm trying to figure out if anyone else has ever seen this? Not much I can do about this with mailman if true? Thanks, Matt -- Matthew Goebel : goebel at emunix.emich.edu : Unix Jockey @ EMU : Hail Eris Neo-Student, Net Lurker, Donut consumer, and procrastinating medher... "Always with the negative waves, Moriarty" - Oddball "Comfort the troubled, and trouble the comfortable." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer From fmouse at fmp.com Fri Nov 30 18:33:11 2018 From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley (linode)) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 17:33:11 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some site blocking our emails from mailman 2.1.29 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2018, at 4:17 PM, Matthew Goebel wrote: > > We've recently had one or two sites block email coming from one of our > lists. > They seem to indicate it is because of sending address having bounces in it? Email is probably the most stressed service on the Internet. It's also probably the most complex and widely misunderstood. There are tons of people out there writing solutions to address email abuse problems. Way too many of them have no idea what's in the email RFC's and how the system is supposed to work. From dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu Fri Nov 30 19:00:06 2018 From: dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu (Dimitri Maziuk) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 18:00:06 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some site blocking our emails from mailman 2.1.29 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11/30/2018 04:17 PM, Matthew Goebel wrote: > Hello, > > We've recently had one or two sites block email coming from one of our > lists. > They seem to indicate it is because of sending address having bounces in it? > ie... listname-bounces at list.emich.edu > This seems odd, and I'm trying to figure out if anyone else has ever seen > this? > Not much I can do about this with mailman if true? No, not much anyone can do: you can't overcome stupid. -- Dimitri Maziuk Programmer/sysadmin BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Fri Nov 30 19:39:50 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 16:39:50 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some site blocking our emails from mailman 2.1.29 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <585ddf55-b448-542f-bfbf-86f719897e6a@msapiro.net> On 11/30/18 2:17 PM, Matthew Goebel wrote: > Hello, > > We've recently had one or two sites block email coming from one of our > lists. > They seem to indicate it is because of sending address having bounces in it? > ie... listname-bounces at list.emich.edu > This seems odd, and I'm trying to figure out if anyone else has ever seen > this? > Not much I can do about this with mailman if true? See for some suggestions about working with the offending sites. If they are really rejecting the mail because of the literal '-bounces' in the envelope sender, you can change that. In Mailman 2.1 the 'list-admin' address is a deprecateGetBouncesEmaild (from Mailman 2.0) synonym for 'list-bounces and should be a working address. At around line 196 in Mailman/MailList.py, you can change def GetBouncesEmail(self): return self.getListAddress('bounces') to def GetBouncesEmail(self): return self.getListAddress('admin') To get Mailman to send from 'list-admin'. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Nov 30 19:45:12 2018 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 16:45:12 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some site blocking our emails from mailman 2.1.29 ? In-Reply-To: <585ddf55-b448-542f-bfbf-86f719897e6a@msapiro.net> References: <585ddf55-b448-542f-bfbf-86f719897e6a@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <7c3e7342-bed4-1393-ad75-bd59e0dac01d@msapiro.net> On 11/30/18 4:39 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > If they are really rejecting the mail because of the literal '-bounces' > in the envelope sender, you can change that. In Mailman 2.1 the > 'list-admin' address is a deprecateGetBouncesEmaild (from Mailman 2.0) > synonym for 'list-bounces and should be a working address. At around > line 196 in Mailman/MailList.py, you can change > > def GetBouncesEmail(self): > return self.getListAddress('bounces') > > to > > def GetBouncesEmail(self): > return self.getListAddress('admin') > > To get Mailman to send from 'list-admin'. > Sorry, that's a bit garbled because of an errant paste 'deprecateGetBouncesEmaild' should be just 'deprecated'. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan