From rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov  Thu May  4 12:36:41 2017
From: rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov (Rosenbaum, Larry M.)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 16:36:41 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging list password change events?
Message-ID: <c2f6d94a5e894b44abb847d8fa6c2eca@EXCHCS32.ornl.gov>

Does Mailman log when a list owner or moderator password gets changed?

One of our admins keeps forgetting and asking for support to reset and the list owner is curious if they are changing the password.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May  4 13:10:23 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 10:10:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging list password change events?
In-Reply-To: <c2f6d94a5e894b44abb847d8fa6c2eca@EXCHCS32.ornl.gov>
References: <c2f6d94a5e894b44abb847d8fa6c2eca@EXCHCS32.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <d0aa56c4-86ce-ea05-4707-34d9d3e02167@msapiro.net>

On 05/04/2017 09:36 AM, Rosenbaum, Larry M. wrote:
> Does Mailman log when a list owner or moderator password gets changed?


No. Mailman doesn't log this, but assuming these changes are not from
the command line interface, the web server logs some info. Look in the
web server logs for a string like "POST /mailman/admin/LISTNAME/passwords"

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov  Thu May  4 14:50:50 2017
From: rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov (Rosenbaum, Larry M.)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 18:50:50 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List creation message has bad links
Message-ID: <56a67d9c667142e386668d7509d34e49@EXCHCS32.ornl.gov>

Recently we created a new list. Somehow the links in the list creation message (see below) have incorrect links. The visible link label has the correct list name, but the HREF has a list name of a different list (which is a substring of the correct list name):

<a href="https://elist.ornl.gov/mailman/admin/ecp-st-math-lib"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>
         https://elist.ornl.gov/mailman/admin/ecp-st-math-lib-teams</span></a>

Is there a bug? I haven't been able to reproduce the problem.

Mailman version 2.1.20 on RHEL6

Larry M. Rosenbaum
Oak Ridge National Laboratory




Well,  turns out, it wasn't that the admin was changing the password.  They were using the link sent out by the Mailman server to go to the list but the link is taking them to the wrong list.

See below.      The list is supposed to be "ecp-st-math-lib-teams".   But if you hover over the URL, it points to "ecp-st-math-lib".

Looks like a bug


"


The mailing list `ecp-st-math-lib-teams' has just been created for you.  The following is some basic information about your mailing list.



Your mailing list password is:



    (redacted)



You need this password to configure your mailing list.  You also need it to handle administrative requests, such as approving mail if you choose to run a moderated list.



You can configure your mailing list at the following web page:



    https://elist.ornl.gov/mailman/admin/ecp-st-math-lib-teams<https://elist.ornl.gov/mailman/admin/ecp-st-math-lib>



The web page for users of your mailing list is:



    https://elist.ornl.gov/mailman/listinfo/ecp-st-math-lib-teams<https://elist.ornl.gov/mailman/listinfo/ecp-st-math-lib>



You can even customize these web pages from the list configuration page.  However, you do need to know HTML to be able to do this.



There is also an email-based interface for users (not administrators) of your list; you can get info about using it by sending a message with just the word `help' as subject or in the body, to:



    ecp-st-math-lib-teams-request at elist.ornl.gov<mailto:ecp-st-math-lib-request at elist.ornl.gov>



To unsubscribe a user: from the mailing list 'listinfo' web page, click on or enter the user's email address as if you were that user.

Where that user would put in their password to unsubscribe, put in your admin password.  You can also use your password to change member's options, including digestification, delivery disabling, etc.



Please address all questions to mailman-owner at elist.ornl.gov<mailto:mailman-owner at elist.ornl.gov>.


"


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May  4 15:41:31 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 12:41:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List creation message has bad links
In-Reply-To: <56a67d9c667142e386668d7509d34e49@EXCHCS32.ornl.gov>
References: <56a67d9c667142e386668d7509d34e49@EXCHCS32.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <69b30e10-f9d9-b895-03d2-e8be520b3313@msapiro.net>

On 05/04/2017 11:50 AM, Rosenbaum, Larry M. wrote:
> Recently we created a new list. Somehow the links in the list creation message (see below) have incorrect links. The visible link label has the correct list name, but the HREF has a list name of a different list (which is a substring of the correct list name):
> 
> <a href="https://elist.ornl.gov/mailman/admin/ecp-st-math-lib"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>
>          https://elist.ornl.gov/mailman/admin/ecp-st-math-lib-teams</span></a>
> 
> Is there a bug? I haven't been able to reproduce the problem.


The list createed message is plain text and contains no html tags. These
are added by the user's MUA to make something that looks like a URL be
"clickable".

Obviously there's a bug, but it is in the user's MUA, not Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov  Thu May  4 15:59:35 2017
From: rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov (Rosenbaum, Larry M.)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 19:59:35 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List creation message has bad links
In-Reply-To: <69b30e10-f9d9-b895-03d2-e8be520b3313@msapiro.net>
References: <56a67d9c667142e386668d7509d34e49@EXCHCS32.ornl.gov>
 <69b30e10-f9d9-b895-03d2-e8be520b3313@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <c085696203f64ac4b8147b412dc96769@EXCHCS32.ornl.gov>

> From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
> bounces+rosenbaumlm=ornl.gov at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
> Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 3:42 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] List creation message has bad links
> 
> On 05/04/2017 11:50 AM, Rosenbaum, Larry M. wrote:
> > Recently we created a new list. Somehow the links in the list creation
> message (see below) have incorrect links. The visible link label has the
> correct list name, but the HREF has a list name of a different list (which
> is a substring of the correct list name):
> >
> > <a href="https://elist.ornl.gov/mailman/admin/ecp-st-math-lib"><span
> style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>
> >          https://elist.ornl.gov/mailman/admin/ecp-st-math-lib-
> teams</span></a>
> >
> > Is there a bug? I haven't been able to reproduce the problem.
> 
> 
> The list createed message is plain text and contains no html tags. These
> are added by the user's MUA to make something that looks like a URL be
> "clickable".
> 
> Obviously there's a bug, but it is in the user's MUA, not Mailman.

Thanks!

> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
> users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/rosenbaumlm%40ornl.gov


From zalezny.niezalezny at gmail.com  Mon May  8 05:38:33 2017
From: zalezny.niezalezny at gmail.com (Zalezny Niezalezny)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 11:38:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman moderation via E-mail
Message-ID: <CAKPGuG-9ygUMANTEzmFN8BaBbF+CcVg_KUQLzzeE=2aEpme73g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

our Mailman Webpanel is not available for our external partners (its behind
firewall and its accesible only from internal environment).

Is it possible to moderate an E-mails using only E-mail communication ?

Is it possible this kind of scenario to moderate an E-mail using only
e-mail communication ?

For example:

1. Moderator sending message on list at example.com
2. Moderator receiving his own message (with msg file) and needs to send it
back to approve it
3. Moderator sending message back to the server (maybe with some command
"approved" etc.etc.)
4. Message is accepted by the Mailman server and server starting to send
messages to all users.




With kind regards

Zalezny

From mblissett at gbif.org  Mon May  8 07:12:48 2017
From: mblissett at gbif.org (Matthew Blissett)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 13:12:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing abusive / malicious subscription requests
Message-ID: <84a51276-aeee-224f-11e4-faa34aea446b@gbif.org>

Hi,

I administrate two small, public Mailman servers.

On one of them [1], I see a lot of unsolicited subscription requests.  
For example, win**********ad at gmail.com was subscribed 41 times last 
week, from 13 different IP addresses.  A whois search on these IP 
addresses suggests they're from anonymization services or spam-friendly 
hosting companies.

In total, there were 234 requests last week, the vast majority were 
unwanted.

Does anyone have any advice on preventing this abuse? Subscriptions 
require confirmation from the user, so manual approval won't help -- 
there's still a notification that the request awaits manual approval.  
Preventing sign-up from a dodgy IP is one option, perhaps directing 
users to email the list owner if they have been caught incorrectly -- 
has anyone set up anything like this?

Thanks,

Matt Blissett

[1] lists.tdwg.org


From jim at ohlste.in  Mon May  8 23:00:36 2017
From: jim at ohlste.in (jim at ohlste.in)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 23:00:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + nginx + uwsgi
Message-ID: <b1f4890f-c2a7-84e3-8f8a-15b79e2582f9@ohlste.in>

Hello,

Has anyone managed to get the above combination working on FreeBSD? I'm 
using fcgiwrap, but it isn't the most elegant solution for a variety of 
reasons.

-- 
Jim Ohlstein

From jimpop at gmail.com  Mon May  8 23:31:36 2017
From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 23:31:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + nginx + uwsgi
In-Reply-To: <b1f4890f-c2a7-84e3-8f8a-15b79e2582f9@ohlste.in>
References: <b1f4890f-c2a7-84e3-8f8a-15b79e2582f9@ohlste.in>
Message-ID: <CAGfsgR1-Tdra5KoOA+E=go3=4Zmbz0=zFJBGo+YcK8LF5ZA35w@mail.gmail.com>

On May 8, 2017 23:10, "jim at ohlste.in" <jim at ohlste.in> wrote:

Hello,

Has anyone managed to get the above combination working on FreeBSD? I'm
using fcgiwrap, but it isn't the most elegant solution for a variety of
reasons.



Hi Jim,

I run mailman+nginx+uwsgi on Linux, but without fcgiwrap.

Here's some idea of how I do it:

$ cat /etc/uwsgi/apps-available/mailman.ini
[uwsgi]
plugins = cgi
vhost = true
master = true
touch-reload = %p
pidfile = /run/uwsgi/app/mailman/pid
disable-logging = true
socket = /run/uwsgi/app/mailman/socket
chdir = /
gid = www-data
uid = www-data
threads = 5
# use two mountpoints for cgi
cgi = /cgi-bin/mailman=/usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman
cgi = /mailman=/usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman
cgi-index = listinfo
vacuum = true
stats = 127.0.0.1:4999


>From /etc/nginx/sites-available/mailman.conf:

upstream _mailman {
        server unix:/run/uwsgi/app/mailman/socket;
}

server {
      ....
     location /mailman {
            .....
            include uwsgi_params;
            proxy_set_header Proxy "";
            uwsgi_param UWSGI_SCHEME $scheme;
            uwsgi_modifier1 9;
            uwsgi_pass _mailman;
        }
}


Let me know if you need more info.

-Jim P.

From kippels at hhu.de  Tue May  9 08:01:56 2017
From: kippels at hhu.de (Julian Kippels)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 14:01:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Targeted attack against german universities using
 mailman
Message-ID: <20170509140156.72794d79@kriemhild>

Hi all,

there seems to be a targeted attack against public mailman lists at
german universities at the moment. I have heared from 3 seperate unis
having this problem, Regensburg, M?nster and us in D?sseldorf.

As far as I can see this attack works like this:
A mail with envelop-from www-data at dreadnoughtpc.com and From:-Header
"Jennifer Lankford" <esag-theater-owner at uni-duesseldorf.de> is
delivered to our list esag-theater at uni-duesseldorf.de
This list is configured only to accept mails from members and to hold
all other mails for the moderators to inspect.
The mail is correctly held to be moderated BUT it is also forwarded to
all members with From:-Header "Jennifer Lankford"
<real.address.of.owner at uni-duesseldorf.de>

I can't see why or how this could work. What am I missing?
We are using Mailman 2.1.15

Thanks in advance
Julian

From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Tue May  9 08:17:01 2017
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2017 14:17:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Targeted attack against german universities
 using mailman
In-Reply-To: <20170509140156.72794d79@kriemhild>
References: <20170509140156.72794d79@kriemhild>
Message-ID: <9AD115DADE40840CD8F30C89@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

Hi,

--On 9. Mai 2017 um 14:01:56 +0200 Julian Kippels <kippels at hhu.de> wrote:

> there seems to be a targeted attack against public mailman lists at
> german universities at the moment. I have heared from 3 seperate unis
> having this problem, Regensburg, M?nster and us in D?sseldorf.
>
> As far as I can see this attack works like this:
> A mail with envelop-from www-data at dreadnoughtpc.com and From:-Header
> "Jennifer Lankford" <esag-theater-owner at uni-duesseldorf.de> is
> delivered to our list esag-theater at uni-duesseldorf.de
> This list is configured only to accept mails from members and to hold
> all other mails for the moderators to inspect.
> The mail is correctly held to be moderated BUT it is also forwarded to
> all members with From:-Header "Jennifer Lankford"
> <real.address.of.owner at uni-duesseldorf.de>
>
> I can't see why or how this could work. What am I missing?
> We are using Mailman 2.1.15

we (Cologne University) were also affected. I think you might see two 
different messages. As far as I can tell the only messages that got through 
to moderated lists were those where the From:-header has an unmoderated 
address for the list.

The bigger issue is that clearly the admin addresses of all lists were 
scraped from the public listinfo pages. This means that the same thing 
could happen again anytime. :-(

I have set out most critical lists to emergency moderation, but that's not 
really practical in the long run.

Sebastian
-- 
    .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - Weyertal 121 (Geb?ude 133), Zimmer 2.02.:.
                 .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:.
   .:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-470-89578.:.

From kippels at hhu.de  Tue May  9 10:39:41 2017
From: kippels at hhu.de (Julian Kippels)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 16:39:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Targeted attack against german universities
 using mailman
In-Reply-To: <9AD115DADE40840CD8F30C89@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
References: <20170509140156.72794d79@kriemhild>
 <9AD115DADE40840CD8F30C89@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <20170509163941.3645b43e@kriemhild>

Am Tue, 09 May 2017 14:17:01 +0200
schrieb Sebastian Hagedorn <Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de>:

> Hi,
> 
> --On 9. Mai 2017 um 14:01:56 +0200 Julian Kippels <kippels at hhu.de>
> wrote:
> 
> > there seems to be a targeted attack against public mailman lists at
> > german universities at the moment. I have heared from 3 seperate
> > unis having this problem, Regensburg, M?nster and us in D?sseldorf.
> >
> > As far as I can see this attack works like this:
> > A mail with envelop-from www-data at dreadnoughtpc.com and From:-Header
> > "Jennifer Lankford" <esag-theater-owner at uni-duesseldorf.de> is
> > delivered to our list esag-theater at uni-duesseldorf.de
> > This list is configured only to accept mails from members and to
> > hold all other mails for the moderators to inspect.
> > The mail is correctly held to be moderated BUT it is also forwarded
> > to all members with From:-Header "Jennifer Lankford"
> > <real.address.of.owner at uni-duesseldorf.de>
> >
> > I can't see why or how this could work. What am I missing?
> > We are using Mailman 2.1.15  
> 
> we (Cologne University) were also affected. I think you might see two 
> different messages. As far as I can tell the only messages that got
> through to moderated lists were those where the From:-header has an
> unmoderated address for the list.
> 
> The bigger issue is that clearly the admin addresses of all lists
> were scraped from the public listinfo pages. This means that the same
> thing could happen again anytime. :-(
> 
> I have set out most critical lists to emergency moderation, but
> that's not really practical in the long run.
> 
> Sebastian

Hi,

I am pretty confident that these were not two different messages. I
have compared the mail headers of both the mail that was held and the
one that was delivered. Everything apart from the headers mailman adds
is exactly the same. Same timestamps, same message-ids, and so on...

Julian

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------
| | Julian Kippels
| | M.Sc. Informatik
| |
| | Zentrum f?r Informations- und Medientechnologie
| | Heinrich-Heine-Universit?t D?sseldorf
| | Universit?tsstr. 1
| | Raum 25.41.O1.36
| | 40225 D?sseldorf / Germany
| |
| | Tel: +49-211-811-4920
| | mail: kippels at hhu.de
| | jabber: jukip100 at xmpp.hhu.de
---------------------------------------------------------


From bryan at skiblack.com  Tue May  9 10:47:26 2017
From: bryan at skiblack.com (Bryan Blackwell)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 10:47:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Targeted attack against german universities
 using mailman
In-Reply-To: <9AD115DADE40840CD8F30C89@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
References: <20170509140156.72794d79@kriemhild>
 <9AD115DADE40840CD8F30C89@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <AB76CDF4-9280-4E5D-9B5B-D4FE03A3FB17@skiblack.com>

On May 9, 2017, at 8:17 AM, Sebastian Hagedorn <Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de> wrote:
> 
> The bigger issue is that clearly the admin addresses of all lists were scraped from the public listinfo pages. This means that the same thing could happen again anytime. :-(

Some years ago I ran into this problem, we turned off all the "Advertise this list" options and instead refer to them from other general info pages for the group.  That cut down the spam to the lists, admins, and -owners addresses considerably.

--Bryan

--  Bryan Blackwell --
Unix Systems Engineer
bryan at skiblack.com




From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Tue May  9 10:54:18 2017
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 10:54:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] diagnosing messages missing from archives
Message-ID: <CABTRqU4PaXyB4NSbU+PUxd7v0hNUFsG2hopcbif6fKOmEXOP8Q@mail.gmail.com>

I'm working on a complaint about messages being delivered, but not getting
into a private mailman archives.

I found a discussion about diagnosing it, from a few years ago, here:
http://grokbase.com/t/python/mailman-users/093t4rv1zv/some-messages-missing-from-archive

This is on a very low activity list, so I can see that the messages are not
just threaded unexpectedly (from an edited subj line). I'm not sure I can
get the full headers of the message to check for x_no_archive or similar
(though I'm trying).

I do see this in the error log:

Apr 27 20:58:43 2017 (517) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't
decode
 byte 0xb5 in position 26: ordinal not in range(128)
Apr 27 20:58:43 2017 (517) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 119, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 190, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 77, in
_dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
ArchiveMail
    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 596, in
processUnixMailbox
    self.add_article(a)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 640, in
add_article
    author = fixAuthor(article.decoded['author'])
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 63, in
fixAuthor
    while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase or
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xb5 in position 26:
ordinal not in range(128)

Apr 27 20:58:43 2017 (517) SHUNTING:
1493351921.551243+8e185be2446d37cbda2f99d888a5a7b7e0643d85

Is that the error I'm looking for? That ArchRunner line looks relevant.
It's a reasonably common series of entries in the log (10ish times a day),
though the timing doesn't line up with the date/time on the messages that
are missing. Is that normal? Is there a way to verify that the error is
specific to any given missing message?

Thanks,
Matt

From scott at qth.com  Tue May  9 11:06:02 2017
From: scott at qth.com (Scott Neader)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 10:06:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Targeted attack against german universities
 using mailman
In-Reply-To: <AB76CDF4-9280-4E5D-9B5B-D4FE03A3FB17@skiblack.com>
References: <20170509140156.72794d79@kriemhild>
 <9AD115DADE40840CD8F30C89@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
 <AB76CDF4-9280-4E5D-9B5B-D4FE03A3FB17@skiblack.com>
Message-ID: <CAPLm_7At3exhDPOtSp_YbNL7RFighMHYqnqeRmFYzh9qT7nn7Q@mail.gmail.com>

>
> On May 9, 2017, at 8:17 AM, Sebastian Hagedorn <Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de>
> wrote:
> >
> > The bigger issue is that clearly the admin addresses of all lists were
> scraped from the public listinfo pages. This means that the same thing
> could happen again anytime. :-(
>


> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Bryan Blackwell <bryan at skiblack.com>
>  wrote:
> Some years ago I ran into this problem, we turned off all the "Advertise
> this list" options and instead refer to them from other general info pages
> for the group.  That cut down the spam to the lists, admins, and -owners
> addresses considerably.
>

Another option to help with the "listinfo admin email scraping" issue is to
enable Moderation on the admin email address(es) that are listed on the
public listinfo pages.  So, regular members can post freely, but if the
admin posts, he/she needs to approve their own post.

If the admin is a regular poster he/she could create a forwarder of some
type, and only list the forwarder as the admin (and moderate it), then
subscribe to the list with their regular address and make that
unmoderated.  This way, they can post with their primary email address, but
also receive any administrative emails.

Hope this makes sense.

- Scott

From geek at uniserve.com  Tue May  9 11:32:17 2017
From: geek at uniserve.com (Dave Stevens)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2017 08:32:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fix permissions error?
Message-ID: <20170509083217.10645ngl83ys5s01@webmail.uniserve.com>

administrator at web5:/var/lib/mailman/bin$ sudo ./check_perms -f
/var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/cron bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/scripts bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/mail bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/Mailman bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/icons bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/templates bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/locks bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
Problems found: 10
Re-run as list (or root) with -f flag to fix

after several iterations I still don't see what to do. Doesn't seem to  
be really fixing anything. Also what list??

Anyone?

Dave



-- 
"As long as politics is the shadow cast on society by big business,
the attenuation of the shadow will not change the substance."

-- John Dewey






From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  9 12:58:51 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 09:58:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] diagnosing messages missing from archives
In-Reply-To: <CABTRqU4PaXyB4NSbU+PUxd7v0hNUFsG2hopcbif6fKOmEXOP8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABTRqU4PaXyB4NSbU+PUxd7v0hNUFsG2hopcbif6fKOmEXOP8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b680f10-cd60-23df-f3a2-d517a24abd96@msapiro.net>

On 05/09/2017 07:54 AM, Matt Morgan wrote:
> 
> I do see this in the error log:
> 
> Apr 27 20:58:43 2017 (517) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't
> decode
>  byte 0xb5 in position 26: ordinal not in range(128)
> Apr 27 20:58:43 2017 (517) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 119, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 190, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 77, in
> _dispose
>     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
> ArchiveMail
>     h.processUnixMailbox(f)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 596, in
> processUnixMailbox
>     self.add_article(a)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 640, in
> add_article
>     author = fixAuthor(article.decoded['author'])
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 63, in
> fixAuthor
>     while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase or
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xb5 in position 26:
> ordinal not in range(128)
> 
> Apr 27 20:58:43 2017 (517) SHUNTING:
> 1493351921.551243+8e185be2446d37cbda2f99d888a5a7b7e0643d85
> 
> Is that the error I'm looking for?


Yes.


> That ArchRunner line looks relevant.
> It's a reasonably common series of entries in the log (10ish times a day),
> though the timing doesn't line up with the date/time on the messages that
> are missing. Is that normal? Is there a way to verify that the error is
> specific to any given missing message?


Every one of those messages is in Mailman's shunt queue with names like
1493351921.551243+8e185be2446d37cbda2f99d888a5a7b7e0643d85.pck. You can
see the messages in a couple of ways.

In Mailman's directory (/usr/local/mailman in your case)

bin/show_qfiles qfiles/shunt/*

will show them all or you can view individual ones by name, or you can run

bin/dumpdb qfiles/shunt/xxx.pck

where xxx.pck is an individual name. The latter will also show the
message metadata which will indicate, among other things, the queue the
message came from which in the case of these should be 'archive'.

The issue appears to be a bug in Mailman. but I need more info to be
sure including the headers from one of the shunted messages.

The exception is thrown when the archiver is trying to canonicalize the
author's display name into "Last, First" form and I think the actual
exception in this case is in checking if a "word" of the name begins
with a lowercase letter. Since the word is already unidode in this case,
it is apparently Python's string.lowercase that contains \xb5 in
position 26.

What do you get if you invoke Python interactively on this server and do

import string
string.lowercase

I get 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'

This is hard coded in /usr/lib/python2.7/string.py and not locale
dependent (and if it were, I think we'd have seen many bug reports
before now), but it looks like yours has extra non-ascii following the
26 ascii lowercase letters.

In any case, after you fix the underlying issue and are satisfied that
you want to reprocess all the shunted messages (move ones you don't want
out of the shunt queue), you can run bin/unshunt to reprocess them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  9 13:06:00 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 10:06:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fix permissions error?
In-Reply-To: <20170509083217.10645ngl83ys5s01@webmail.uniserve.com>
References: <20170509083217.10645ngl83ys5s01@webmail.uniserve.com>
Message-ID: <a43f07cc-086f-3808-2ca1-9224a25de189@msapiro.net>

On 05/09/2017 08:32 AM, Dave Stevens wrote:
> administrator at web5:/var/lib/mailman/bin$ sudo ./check_perms -f
> /var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
> /var/lib/mailman/cron bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
> /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
> /var/lib/mailman/bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
> /var/lib/mailman/scripts bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
> /var/lib/mailman/mail bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
> /var/lib/mailman/Mailman bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
> /var/lib/mailman/icons bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
> /var/lib/mailman/templates bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
> /var/lib/mailman/locks bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
> Problems found: 10
> Re-run as list (or root) with -f flag to fix
> 
> after several iterations I still don't see what to do. Doesn't seem to
> be really fixing anything. Also what list??



I'm guessing that this is a Debian/Ubuntu package. If you look you'ss
find all those paths are in fact symlinks to other directories and the
group and permissions on the actual directory are fine. check_perms
can't actually change the symlink group and it's not relevant anyway.

the 'list' in 'Re-run as list (or root) with -f flag to fix' refers to
the user 'list' which is the Debian/Ubuntu Mailman user, not to a
Mailman list.

In any case, do you have a problem other than the spurious report from
check_perms?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From geek at uniserve.com  Tue May  9 13:24:24 2017
From: geek at uniserve.com (Dave Stevens)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2017 10:24:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fix permissions error?
In-Reply-To: <a43f07cc-086f-3808-2ca1-9224a25de189@msapiro.net>
References: <20170509083217.10645ngl83ys5s01@webmail.uniserve.com>
 <a43f07cc-086f-3808-2ca1-9224a25de189@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20170509102424.64186op6q5w9imh4@webmail.uniserve.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:

> On 05/09/2017 08:32 AM, Dave Stevens wrote:
>> administrator at web5:/var/lib/mailman/bin$ sudo ./check_perms -f
>> /var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>> /var/lib/mailman/cron bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>> /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>> /var/lib/mailman/bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>> /var/lib/mailman/scripts bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>> /var/lib/mailman/mail bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>> /var/lib/mailman/Mailman bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>> /var/lib/mailman/icons bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>> /var/lib/mailman/templates bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>> /var/lib/mailman/locks bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>> Problems found: 10
>> Re-run as list (or root) with -f flag to fix
>>
>> after several iterations I still don't see what to do. Doesn't seem to
>> be really fixing anything. Also what list??
>
>
>
> I'm guessing that this is a Debian/Ubuntu package. If you look you'ss
> find all those paths are in fact symlinks to other directories and the
> group and permissions on the actual directory are fine. check_perms
> can't actually change the symlink group and it's not relevant anyway.
>
> the 'list' in 'Re-run as list (or root) with -f flag to fix' refers to
> the user 'list' which is the Debian/Ubuntu Mailman user, not to a
> Mailman list.
>
> In any case, do you have a problem other than the spurious report from
> check_perms?

yes. I made a new empty list and added myself to it and then got this  
message (as usual):

The web page for users of your mailing list is:

     http://choked.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/davedave

Clicking on the link gives first the info page and clicking on its  
archive link gives:

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /pipermail/davedave/ on this server.

And that's the issue I was hoping to address by the permissions fix.

Dave





>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:  
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/geek%40uniserve.com
>



-- 
"As long as politics is the shadow cast on society by big business,
the attenuation of the shadow will not change the substance."

-- John Dewey






From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  9 15:21:11 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 12:21:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman moderation via E-mail
In-Reply-To: <CAKPGuG-9ygUMANTEzmFN8BaBbF+CcVg_KUQLzzeE=2aEpme73g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKPGuG-9ygUMANTEzmFN8BaBbF+CcVg_KUQLzzeE=2aEpme73g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <796bac84-8614-1545-eada-aabf7f74ab03@msapiro.net>

On 05/08/2017 02:38 AM, Zalezny Niezalezny wrote:
> 
> Is it possible this kind of scenario to moderate an E-mail using only
> e-mail communication ?
> 
> For example:
> 
> 1. Moderator sending message on list at example.com
> 2. Moderator receiving his own message (with msg file) and needs to send it
> back to approve it
> 3. Moderator sending message back to the server (maybe with some command
> "approved" etc.etc.)
> 4. Message is accepted by the Mailman server and server starting to send
> messages to all users.


Yes.

You need to ensure General Options -> admin_immed_notify is Yes. Then
when a post is held for moderation, the owners/moderators will receive a
MIME multipart message with three parts. The first part says the message
is held and why. The second part is the message itself. The third part
is a message/rfc822 message. This message is From: the
listname-request at ... address and has Subject: confirm xxxx and content

If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact,
Mailman will discard the held message.  Do this if the message is spam.
If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header with the
list password in it, the message will be approved for posting to the
list.  The Approved: header can also appear in the first line of the
body of the reply

where xxxx is a hex token. It is important that the reply be to that
message in the third part and not the outer message. It doesn't actually
have to be a reply, but it does have to be To: the listname-request at ...
address and have Subject: confirm xxxx where xxxx is the hex token.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  9 15:32:19 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 12:32:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing abusive / malicious subscription
 requests
In-Reply-To: <84a51276-aeee-224f-11e4-faa34aea446b@gbif.org>
References: <84a51276-aeee-224f-11e4-faa34aea446b@gbif.org>
Message-ID: <5710cdb3-b3e5-f450-5d96-7121ad96c222@msapiro.net>

On 05/08/2017 04:12 AM, Matthew Blissett wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have any advice on preventing this abuse? Subscriptions
> require confirmation from the user, so manual approval won't help --
> there's still a notification that the request awaits manual approval. 
> Preventing sign-up from a dodgy IP is one option, perhaps directing
> users to email the list owner if they have been caught incorrectly --
> has anyone set up anything like this?


See the thread at
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-January/080301.html>
and other threads linked in posts from that thread.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  9 15:53:13 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 12:53:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Targeted attack against german universities
 using mailman
In-Reply-To: <20170509163941.3645b43e@kriemhild>
References: <20170509140156.72794d79@kriemhild>
 <9AD115DADE40840CD8F30C89@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
 <20170509163941.3645b43e@kriemhild>
Message-ID: <cc875864-1383-44a7-0882-cbcbfa94c5b1@msapiro.net>

On 05/09/2017 07:39 AM, Julian Kippels wrote:
> 
> I am pretty confident that these were not two different messages. I
> have compared the mail headers of both the mail that was held and the
> one that was delivered. Everything apart from the headers mailman adds
> is exactly the same. Same timestamps, same message-ids, and so on...


Unless there is some serious bug that I've never seen before, Mailman
will not hold a post and also deliver it to the list members without
moderator approval.

As far as post acceptance, the default setting for SENDER_HEADERS is
('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender') which means that the post will be
accepted ias a member post if any of the From: header, the Unix From
(i.e. envelope sender), Reply-To: header or Sender: header contains a
member address. If all you have of the post that went to the list is the
post received from the list, the envelope sender will be different, but
you can find the original in your MTA logs [1] and the Sender: will have
been rewritten but the others may be as received by Mailman depending on
list settings.

[1] You should be able to tell from MTA logs how many incoming messages
there were and to where they were delivered.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  9 16:20:16 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 13:20:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fix permissions error?
In-Reply-To: <20170509102424.64186op6q5w9imh4@webmail.uniserve.com>
References: <20170509083217.10645ngl83ys5s01@webmail.uniserve.com>
 <a43f07cc-086f-3808-2ca1-9224a25de189@msapiro.net>
 <20170509102424.64186op6q5w9imh4@webmail.uniserve.com>
Message-ID: <08627e69-a512-2e7c-284c-52c8fcc369a8@msapiro.net>

On 05/09/2017 10:24 AM, Dave Stevens wrote:
> 
> Clicking on the link gives first the info page and clicking on its
> archive link gives:
> 
> Forbidden
> 
> You don't have permission to access /pipermail/davedave/ on this server.
> 
> And that's the issue I was hoping to address by the permissions fix.


It may have been check_perms that misled you on this, but the
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private directory MUST be either o+x or owned
by the web server user (probably www-data in your case).

If it's o+x, check_perms will inform you because if the server has
multiple login users and some of these users should not be allowed to
access private list archives, you want o-x, but otherwise it doesn't
matter. See the Warning box at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From phils at caerllewys.net  Tue May  9 18:46:00 2017
From: phils at caerllewys.net (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 18:46:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot approve a moderation-held post
Message-ID: <17984697-197d-2e5f-5aa5-e2435e95893c@caerllewys.net>

I'm running Mailman 2.1.23 along with Postfix 3.2.0 and Apache 2.4.25.
I have a held message from a mailing list member who was (at the user's
request) placed on moderation some time ago after a Girl Scouts phone
app stole her address book and spammed it.  I cannot approve the
message.  I've tried three different browsers.  I've already
successfully unmoderated the user, I select "Approve", click Submit All,
and I just get dumped straight back at the held-message-approval page
with the message still held.  I've checked all relevant logs and there
are no errors being logged either by Apache, by Postfix, or by Mailman
itself.  Everything else works except that I cannot approve this held
message.  "Nothing's wrong, it just doesn't work."

I also tried approving by replying to <list>-request with an Approve:
<password> command, and that didn't work either.


Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this problem, and how I
can fix it and prevent future occurrences?  Except for simply never
using moderation?



-- 
  Phil Stracchino
  Babylon Communications
  phils at caerllewys.net
  phil at co.ordinate.org
  Landline: 603.293.8485

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  9 19:19:52 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 16:19:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot approve a moderation-held post
In-Reply-To: <17984697-197d-2e5f-5aa5-e2435e95893c@caerllewys.net>
References: <17984697-197d-2e5f-5aa5-e2435e95893c@caerllewys.net>
Message-ID: <96568c4e-35b1-55b3-3044-3727ea58f305@msapiro.net>

On 05/09/2017 03:46 PM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> I'm running Mailman 2.1.23 along with Postfix 3.2.0 and Apache 2.4.25.
> I have a held message from a mailing list member who was (at the user's
> request) placed on moderation some time ago after a Girl Scouts phone
> app stole her address book and spammed it.  I cannot approve the
> message.  I've tried three different browsers.  I've already
> successfully unmoderated the user, I select "Approve", click Submit All,
> and I just get dumped straight back at the held-message-approval page
> with the message still held.  I've checked all relevant logs and there
> are no errors being logged either by Apache, by Postfix, or by Mailman
> itself.  Everything else works except that I cannot approve this held
> message.  "Nothing's wrong, it just doesn't work."


Does Apache redirect http to https and if so is the 'action' URL on the
admindb page an http URL? If so, see steps 2 and 3 at
<https://wiki.list.org/x/17892007>. You also may be able to avoid this
issue in Apache by redirecting with a '308' status instead of
'Permanent', but this doesn't work well with Microsoft browsers.


> I also tried approving by replying to <list>-request with an Approve:
> <password> command, and that didn't work either.


In addition to mailing <list>-request with an Approve: <password> header
or first body line you must have 'confirm <token>' as the command in the
Subject. If admin_immed_notify is Yes, the token is in the third MIME
part of the notice. You can also find the token with the script at
<https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_pending> with the -m and -e
options, but tokens expire (by default after 3 days) and if the token is
expired or not there at all, this won't work.


> Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this problem, and how I
> can fix it and prevent future occurrences?  Except for simply never
> using moderation?


The most likely cause is the http -> https redirect dropping POST data.
For other possibilities, see <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030602>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From phils at caerllewys.net  Tue May  9 20:09:21 2017
From: phils at caerllewys.net (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 20:09:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot approve a moderation-held post
In-Reply-To: <96568c4e-35b1-55b3-3044-3727ea58f305@msapiro.net>
References: <17984697-197d-2e5f-5aa5-e2435e95893c@caerllewys.net>
 <96568c4e-35b1-55b3-3044-3727ea58f305@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <0372e038-f43f-327c-f057-2d07cd5972e5@caerllewys.net>

On 05/09/17 19:19, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 05/09/2017 03:46 PM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
>> I'm running Mailman 2.1.23 along with Postfix 3.2.0 and Apache 2.4.25.
>> I have a held message from a mailing list member who was (at the user's
>> request) placed on moderation some time ago after a Girl Scouts phone
>> app stole her address book and spammed it.  I cannot approve the
>> message. [...]
> 
> Does Apache redirect http to https and if so is the 'action' URL on the
> admindb page an http URL? If so, see steps 2 and 3 at
> <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892007>. You also may be able to avoid this
> issue in Apache by redirecting with a '308' status instead of
> 'Permanent', but this doesn't work well with Microsoft browsers.

Aha!  I *do* redirect HTTP to HTTPS.  However, I'd already done all of
the steps in that document, as well as some other measures ... EXCEPT
the fix_url, which I did not know I needed to do.  The problem is now
solved.  Thanks!



-- 
  Phil Stracchino
  Babylon Communications
  phils at caerllewys.net
  phil at co.ordinate.org
  Landline: 603.293.8485

From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Wed May 10 03:36:54 2017
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 16:36:54 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Targeted attack against german universities
 using mailman
In-Reply-To: <cc875864-1383-44a7-0882-cbcbfa94c5b1@msapiro.net>
References: <20170509140156.72794d79@kriemhild>
 <9AD115DADE40840CD8F30C89@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
 <20170509163941.3645b43e@kriemhild>
 <cc875864-1383-44a7-0882-cbcbfa94c5b1@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <22802.49942.162598.528681@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > Unless there is some serious bug that I've never seen before, Mailman
 > will not hold a post and also deliver it to the list members without
 > moderator approval.

I guess it's possible that there's some kind of backdoor in the
configuration, such that the post goes to the list, is held from
distribution but somehow the owner is configured to reflect back to
the list.  We'd need to see the full header of the post with all trace
fields to be able to even try to confirm this guess.

BTW, the practice of sending spam to -owner addresses has a long
history.  I suspect this is not a matter of exploiting a Mailman bug
unknown to us, but just luck on the part of the spammers.

Steve

From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Wed May 10 03:37:22 2017
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 16:37:22 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot approve a moderation-held post
In-Reply-To: <0372e038-f43f-327c-f057-2d07cd5972e5@caerllewys.net>
References: <17984697-197d-2e5f-5aa5-e2435e95893c@caerllewys.net>
 <96568c4e-35b1-55b3-3044-3727ea58f305@msapiro.net>
 <0372e038-f43f-327c-f057-2d07cd5972e5@caerllewys.net>
Message-ID: <22802.49970.791873.917219@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Phil Stracchino writes:

 > Aha!  I *do* redirect HTTP to HTTPS.  However, I'd already done all of
 > the steps in that document, as well as some other measures ... EXCEPT
 > the fix_url, which I did not know I needed to do.  The problem is now
 > solved.  Thanks!

Mark, would it be possible and desirable to give fix_url a check mode
which would warn about what it wants to do?  Ie, so it could be run by
default at startup or something like that, so there'd be a warning in
the logs?  While I'm thinking weird things, how about running
checkperms in check mode at startup?

Sure, there would be a warning at startup for people who are smarter
than we are, but if they're that smart, they can figure out how to
defeat the warning themselves. ;-)  If they're *not* that smart, maybe
they shouldn't be using a configuration that bothers our check
scripts. ;-)  Yeah, there's the symlinks issue with checkperms, but
maybe we should make checkperms check mode follow the symlinks.  WDOT?

Steve




From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Wed May 10 04:58:44 2017
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 10:58:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Targeted attack against german universities
 using mailman
In-Reply-To: <22802.49942.162598.528681@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20170509140156.72794d79@kriemhild>
 <9AD115DADE40840CD8F30C89@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
 <20170509163941.3645b43e@kriemhild>
 <cc875864-1383-44a7-0882-cbcbfa94c5b1@msapiro.net>
 <22802.49942.162598.528681@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <0CEDC3246EB414D8FF59C2C6@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

--On 10. Mai 2017 um 16:36:54 +0900 "Stephen J. Turnbull" 
<turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:

> BTW, the practice of sending spam to -owner addresses has a long
> history.  I suspect this is not a matter of exploiting a Mailman bug
> unknown to us, but just luck on the part of the spammers.

FWIW, the messages we saw were *not* sent to the -owner address, but to the 
list address using one of the admin addresses for the list in the 
From:-header. On the MTA level the envelope-from was always 
www-data at dreadnoughtpc.com.

Cheers
Sebastian
-- 
    .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - Weyertal 121 (Geb?ude 133), Zimmer 2.02.:.
                 .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:.
   .:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-470-89578.:.

From kippels at hhu.de  Wed May 10 07:38:06 2017
From: kippels at hhu.de (Julian Kippels)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 13:38:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Targeted attack against german universities
 using mailman
In-Reply-To: <20170509163941.3645b43e@kriemhild>
References: <20170509140156.72794d79@kriemhild>
 <9AD115DADE40840CD8F30C89@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
 <20170509163941.3645b43e@kriemhild>
Message-ID: <20170510133806.6c2ace5f@kriemhild>

Am Tue, 9 May 2017 16:39:41 +0200
schrieb Julian Kippels <kippels at hhu.de>:

> Am Tue, 09 May 2017 14:17:01 +0200
> schrieb Sebastian Hagedorn <Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de>:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > --On 9. Mai 2017 um 14:01:56 +0200 Julian Kippels <kippels at hhu.de>
> > wrote:
> >   
> > > there seems to be a targeted attack against public mailman lists
> > > at german universities at the moment. I have heared from 3
> > > seperate unis having this problem, Regensburg, M?nster and us in
> > > D?sseldorf.
> > >
> > > As far as I can see this attack works like this:
> > > A mail with envelop-from www-data at dreadnoughtpc.com and
> > > From:-Header "Jennifer Lankford"
> > > <esag-theater-owner at uni-duesseldorf.de> is delivered to our list
> > > esag-theater at uni-duesseldorf.de This list is configured only to
> > > accept mails from members and to hold all other mails for the
> > > moderators to inspect. The mail is correctly held to be moderated
> > > BUT it is also forwarded to all members with From:-Header
> > > "Jennifer Lankford" <real.address.of.owner at uni-duesseldorf.de>
> > >
> > > I can't see why or how this could work. What am I missing?
> > > We are using Mailman 2.1.15    
> > 
> > we (Cologne University) were also affected. I think you might see
> > two different messages. As far as I can tell the only messages that
> > got through to moderated lists were those where the From:-header
> > has an unmoderated address for the list.
> > 
> > The bigger issue is that clearly the admin addresses of all lists
> > were scraped from the public listinfo pages. This means that the
> > same thing could happen again anytime. :-(
> > 
> > I have set out most critical lists to emergency moderation, but
> > that's not really practical in the long run.
> > 
> > Sebastian  
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am pretty confident that these were not two different messages. I
> have compared the mail headers of both the mail that was held and the
> one that was delivered. Everything apart from the headers mailman adds
> is exactly the same. Same timestamps, same message-ids, and so on...
> 
> Julian
> 

I am sorry, I have rechecked my findings? yes, those were 2 different
mails with different headers. Sorry for the confusion.

Julian

From listeyon at metu.edu.tr  Wed May 10 07:58:51 2017
From: listeyon at metu.edu.tr (Liste Yoneticisi)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 14:58:51 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] view all members of a list on one page with names
Message-ID: <bc15a415-75cd-e22e-b109-3a6f754afe78@metu.edu.tr>

Hello;

List administrators can see the list members on one page with the 
following link.

http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/list-name

But this page executes only the members' e-mail addresses. Is it 
possible to see the full names also.


-- 
Enformatik Grubu - Elektronik Liste Servisi
ODT? Bilgi ??lem Daire Ba?kanl???

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 10 10:41:47 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 07:41:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] view all members of a list on one page with
 names
In-Reply-To: <bc15a415-75cd-e22e-b109-3a6f754afe78@metu.edu.tr>
References: <bc15a415-75cd-e22e-b109-3a6f754afe78@metu.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <63d24ed5-804f-cfb9-eab3-38a8b3fdca22@msapiro.net>

On 05/10/2017 04:58 AM, Liste Yoneticisi wrote:
> 
> List administrators can see the list members on one page with the
> following link.
> 
> http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/list-name
> 
> But this page executes only the members' e-mail addresses. Is it
> possible to see the full names also.


Yes. This was implemented in Mailman 2.1.19, but because of privacy
concerns, in Mailman 2.1.20 and up you need to put

ROSTER_DISPLAY_REALNAME = Yes

in mm_cfg.py to enable it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Thu May 11 10:39:30 2017
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 16:39:30 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What happens when public_suffix_list.dat can't be
 loaded?
Message-ID: <783070D730A6B9273EE5762C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

Hi,

for the moment we are stuck with a buggy version of Python 2.7 that has 
recently become unable to load the URL

<https://publicsuffix.org/list/public_suffix_list.dat>

Since the end of April the attempt results in this error message:

Unable to retrieve data from 
https://publicsuffix.org/list/public_suffix_list.dat: <urlopen error [SSL: 
SSLV3_ALERT_HANDSHAKE_FAILURE] sslv3 alert handshake failure (_ssl.c:661)>

Apparently this is caused by the lack of support for SNI in that Python 
version (python27-2.7.13-1.ius.el5)

AFAICT the list is only needed to map domain names to corresponding 
Organizational Domains in the context of DMARC handling. It looks to me as 
if that doesn't cause any problems, but I thought I'd ask ...

Thanks, Sebastian
-- 
Sebastian Hagedorn - Listmaster - Weyertal 121 (Geb?ude 133), Zimmer 2.02
Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK)
Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - Tel. +49-221-470-89578

From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Thu May 11 12:00:51 2017
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 12:00:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] diagnosing messages missing from archives
In-Reply-To: <8b680f10-cd60-23df-f3a2-d517a24abd96@msapiro.net>
References: <CABTRqU4PaXyB4NSbU+PUxd7v0hNUFsG2hopcbif6fKOmEXOP8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8b680f10-cd60-23df-f3a2-d517a24abd96@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CABTRqU6Qpsucn+RaaA7iM9+UkGfoC8fMzXwUFc3-g6e8G8B9BQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 12:58 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 05/09/2017 07:54 AM, Matt Morgan wrote:
> >
> > I do see this in the error log:
> >
> > Apr 27 20:58:43 2017 (517) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't
> > decode
> >  byte 0xb5 in position 26: ordinal not in range(128)
> > Apr 27 20:58:43 2017 (517) Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 119, in
> _oneloop
> >     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 190, in
> _onefile
> >     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 77, in
> > _dispose
> >     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
> > ArchiveMail
> >     h.processUnixMailbox(f)
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 596, in
> > processUnixMailbox
> >     self.add_article(a)
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 640, in
> > add_article
> >     author = fixAuthor(article.decoded['author'])
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 63, in
> > fixAuthor
> >     while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase or
> > UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xb5 in position 26:
> > ordinal not in range(128)
> >
> > Apr 27 20:58:43 2017 (517) SHUNTING:
> > 1493351921.551243+8e185be2446d37cbda2f99d888a5a7b7e0643d85
> >
> > Is that the error I'm looking for?
>
>
> Yes.
>
>
> > That ArchRunner line looks relevant.
> > It's a reasonably common series of entries in the log (10ish times a
> day),
> > though the timing doesn't line up with the date/time on the messages that
> > are missing. Is that normal? Is there a way to verify that the error is
> > specific to any given missing message?
>
>
> Every one of those messages is in Mailman's shunt queue with names like
> 1493351921.551243+8e185be2446d37cbda2f99d888a5a7b7e0643d85.pck. You can
> see the messages in a couple of ways.
>
> In Mailman's directory (/usr/local/mailman in your case)
>
> bin/show_qfiles qfiles/shunt/*
>

Just FYI, in case anyone's reading this in the list archives in future, you
may need a "../" in front of "qfiles/shunt/*" there.


>
> will show them all or you can view individual ones by name, or you can run
>
> bin/dumpdb qfiles/shunt/xxx.pck
>
> where xxx.pck is an individual name. The latter will also show the
> message metadata which will indicate, among other things, the queue the
> message came from which in the case of these should be 'archive'.
>

I subscribed to the list so that I could track this more easily. A message
from yesterday was kept out of the archives in the same way.

Here are the headers (anonymized a little):

Delivered-To:     mattcncrt at gmail.com
Received:     by 10.25.153.69 with SMTP id b66csp370037lfe; Wed, 10 May
2017 12:55:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received:     by 10.84.128.65 with SMTP id
59mr10521582pla.121.1494446108067; Wed, 10 May 2017 12:55:08 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal:     i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1494446108; cv=none; d=google.com;
s=arc-20160816;
b=FRn0ZWGg2oTxTU3+KArFayyfI4JJZKZiZsezc25C6hsUgjDqdAn5CAj4aBKIlfkR7Z
TQYcmBDk8KoNPaLphRrgPXmCg6rV1OLnU6EzcFdJoMxW3kLuG5tbhJFJSl4ypxh7TQDe
zJ3GY1KRWu7AWdaESXevJLyuMwwjJ3VTBwQUwMsXdNju3F3DfekHHuDJdlNWWVrFvLXM
96rGZi9T1Cihg2GW5bWvaNQAxkbmlOIlcsTB3SSx0Yq9P+aOFvQwDBq+U8KDYRCZcoi9
LI5WiMmivYJ0zEToSnd+EJZ+bn4Yd9xFt7KWJubjdc55lSRzsIrN1hjnaQeCD8Eq3RAP w12g==
ARC-Message-Signature:     i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=
google.com; s=arc-20160816;
h=sender:errors-to:content-transfer-encoding:reply-to:list-subscribe
:list-help:list-post:list-archive:list-unsubscribe:list-id
:precedence:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:to:references:date
:mime-version:from:dkim-signature:arc-authentication-results;
bh=cizuuK18iQqPuWzF8CUKeju438HlKLJbPg8FiN9HnfU=;
b=kmeTsmGWUerbMCwqenno45KatPObxGKdigUWDNtufBWJKM2eNTK23S1qRIK2ele8Gh
tdJayjTyXIS432QUS40Ruc0/SCk6RI/MYns3khWDZNxfFYSCYppHBOwtM84i4sX6zILk
CQwSj3uVFdj6QbBM4TiUots9hgA3piHzwUINJn7SYatHcrJWeNSBDgAbRZDWJNsOTl0m
lOcQVDRZ+xSMb8Xe8QFnSQmSy2xCaI5ixYytUSIL5KO06dwGurnajE4D1I+vwfCgZGcb
nmUwNUwF6eWzvkWBL0M8UNbrcsdRq6f//ezkIrLr5Gmn4uTwON7dm/HL9gcYnbehS0Sp 0SeA==
ARC-Authentication-Results:     i=1; mx.google.com; dkim=neutral (body hash
did not verify) header.i=@me.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 206.180.233.162
is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of
cippnews-bounces at cool.conservation-us.org) smtp.mailfrom=
cippnews-bounces at cool.conservation-us.org; dmarc=fail (p=NONE sp=NONE
dis=NONE) header.from=me.com
Return-Path:     <cippnews-bounces at cool.conservation-us.org>
Received:     from cool.conservation-us.org (cool.tdl.com.
[206.180.233.162]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id
q185si4018820pga.417.2017.05.10.12.55.06 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA
bits=128/128); Wed, 10 May 2017 12:55:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF:     neutral (google.com: 206.180.233.162 is neither permitted
nor denied by best guess record for domain of
cippnews-bounces at cool.conservation-us.org) client-ip=206.180.233.162;
Authentication-Results:     mx.google.com; dkim=neutral (body hash did not
verify) header.i=@me.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 206.180.233.162 is
neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of
cippnews-bounces at cool.conservation-us.org) smtp.mailfrom=
cippnews-bounces at cool.conservation-us.org; dmarc=fail (p=NONE sp=NONE
dis=NONE) header.from=me.com
Received:     from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=cool.tdl.com) by
cool.conservation-us.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <
cippnews-bounces at cool.conservation-us.org>) id 1d8XhD-0000aU-GX; Wed, 10
May 2017 12:54:51 -0700
Received:     from pv35p22im-ztdg05131101.me.com ([17.133.189.43]) by
cool.conservation-us.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <
annshaftel at me.com>) id 1d8XhC-0000aM-7S for
cippnews at cool.conservation-us.org; Wed, 10 May 2017 12:54:50 -0700
Received:     from process-dkim-sign-daemon.pv35p22im-ztdg05131101.me.com
by pv35p22im-ztdg05131101.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server
7.0.5.38.0 64bit (built Feb 26 2016)) id <
0OPR007005WLLE00 at pv35p22im-ztdg05131101.me.com> for
cippnews at cool.conservation-us.org; Wed, 10 May 2017 19:54:49 +0000 (GMT)
DKIM-Signature:     v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=me.com;
s=4d515a; t=1494446089; bh=iMRS0rztCQMUAhGFAT7khfPTdH9Fy/59g3wJDcQzaxM=;
h=From:Content-type:MIME-version:Subject:Date:To:Message-id;
b=P994EyGUDRT5hcWBUpFuaXhGcIwIv5y+2Fc2iyA9I1vQsqyq4rg57CptHkrr/t3A7
yf4tU+IIbYu0Jq/F9xtVnPT3u/B5s2MfZvIORNOvKxxx1bm0BwXpGqwwLTAE73gfxO
y8akmoAfaoUJlbQ+Wptu8Y7uNLPBaMyuUoomX8Bcm7UiNW9lWBLtIgCAR0pAJ0StqP
Fm1N9Rqn4omlJ5z7uQ1V/wdMgO5QRAY0NT2punAB5sGs3eEJJavfWZsiGDbNBIq56v
9mYCxgyId1spAvb4HgVbKNd28V7C3y5OreWQsPdTp0HS218dODJQekkAv6dTd5RxSc
FMEP1hpTefwhg==
Received:     from icloud.com ([127.0.0.1]) by pv35p22im-ztdg05131101.me.com
(Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.38.0 64bit (built Feb 26
2016)) with ESMTPSA id <0OPR00NJ85Z8KO40 at pv35p22im-ztdg05131101.me.com> for
cippnews at cool.conservation-us.org; Wed, 10 May 2017 19:54:46 +0000 (GMT)
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version:     vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:,,
definitions=2017-05-10_16:,, signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details:     rule=notspam policy=default score=0
spamscore=0 clxscore=1034 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0
adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1
engine=8.0.1-1701120000 definitions=main-1705100136
From:     XXXXXXXX <xxxxxxxxxx at me.com>
MIME-version:     1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\))
Date:     Wed, 10 May 2017 16:54:44 -0300
References:     <CACJwyVrjx-m1VZ=
S68r5cV-diHV3VchfxQ2A6qhwDDK5JZDGHA at mail.gmail.com>
To:     Conservators in Private Practice Discussion <
cippnews at cool.conservation-us.org>
In-reply-to:     <CACJwyVrjx-m1VZ=
S68r5cV-diHV3VchfxQ2A6qhwDDK5JZDGHA at mail.gmail.com>
Message-id:     <1442A6F7-ED43-4899-A0C9-403898F52F80 at me.com>
X-Mailer:     Apple Mail (2.3273)
Subject:     Re: [CIPPNEWS] closing private conservation studio
X-BeenThere:     cippnews at cool.conservation-us.org
X-Mailman-Version:     2.1.23
Precedence:     list
List-Id:     Conservators in Private Practice Discussion <
cippnews.cool.conservation-us.org>
List-Unsubscribe:     <
http://cool.conservation-us.org/mailman/options/cippnews>, <mailto:
cippnews-request at cool.conservation-us.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive:     <http://cool.conservation-us.org/mailman/private/cippnews/
>
List-Post:     <mailto:cippnews at cool.conservation-us.org>
List-Help:     <mailto:cippnews-request at cool.conservation-us.org
?subject=help>
List-Subscribe:     <
http://cool.conservation-us.org/mailman/listinfo/cippnews>, <mailto:
cippnews-request at cool.conservation-us.org?subject=subscribe>
Reply-To:     Conservators in Private Practice Discussion <
cippnews at cool.conservation-us.org>
Content-Type:     text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:     base64
Errors-To:     cippnews-bounces at cool.conservation-us.org
Sender:     "cippnews" <cippnews-bounces at cool.conservation-us.org>

Here is the section from the error log (same issue, I think):

May 10 12:54:51 2017 (517) SHUNTING:
1494446090.4214+cdb2b1813d6f36d682d0f74cfc581e6046735197
May 10 12:58:26 2017 (517) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't
decode byte 0xb5 in position 26: ordinal not in range(128)
May 10 12:58:26 2017 (517) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 119, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 190, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 77, in
_dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
ArchiveMail
    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 596, in
processUnixMailbox
    self.add_article(a)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 640, in
add_article
    author = fixAuthor(article.decoded['author'])
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 63, in
fixAuthor
    while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase or
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xb5 in position 26:
ordinal
not in range(128)

Here is the output from the dumpdb command (anonymized a little):

[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
>From xxxxxxxxxx at me.com Wed May 10 12:54:50 2017
Received: from pv35p22im-ztdg05131101.me.com ([17.133.189.43])
 by cool.conservation-us.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
 (envelope-from <xxxxxxxxxxx at me.com>) id 1d8XhC-0000aM-7S
 for cippnews at cool.conservation-us.org; Wed, 10 May 2017 12:54:50 -0700
Received: from process-dkim-sign-daemon.pv35p22im-ztdg05131101.me.com by
 pv35p22im-ztdg05131101.me.com
 (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.38.0 64bit (built Feb 26 2016))
 id <0OPR007005WLLE00 at pv35p22im-ztdg05131101.me.com> for
 cippnews at cool.conservation-us.org; Wed, 10 May 2017 19:54:49 +0000 (GMT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=me.com; s=4d515a;
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 <cippnews at cool.conservation-us.org>
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Send me list of what=E2=80=99s still available!
love
XXX



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> The issue appears to be a bug in Mailman. but I need more info to be
> sure including the headers from one of the shunted messages.
>
> The exception is thrown when the archiver is trying to canonicalize the
> author's display name into "Last, First" form and I think the actual
> exception in this case is in checking if a "word" of the name begins
> with a lowercase letter. Since the word is already unidode in this case,
> it is apparently Python's string.lowercase that contains \xb5 in
> position 26.
>
> What do you get if you invoke Python interactively on this server and do
>
> import string
> string.lowercase
>
> I get 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'
>

I get the same thing! Does that make any sense?

xxxx at yyyyy:/usr/local/mailman/logs# python
Python 2.7.5 (default, May 29 2013, 02:28:51)
[GCC 4.8.0] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import string
>>> string.lowercase
'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'


Thanks as always,
Matt

From jontrepte at me.com  Thu May 11 08:05:49 2017
From: jontrepte at me.com (Jon Trepte)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 13:05:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hiding the mailing list
Message-ID: <33C0D766-C9E9-4121-A8C3-8CEAF061EACA@me.com>

Does anybody know how to stop the mail-list from appearing in the reply fields. I simply want the original poster to appear only. I don?t want recipients to be able to post to the list at all.
Thanks in anticipatoin.

From piet at pietbarber.com  Thu May 11 00:15:43 2017
From: piet at pietbarber.com (Piet Barber)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 04:15:43 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Held for approval -- too verbose
Message-ID: <CAKnVDC6VsvtnKzenpQYZPGFcZRB33pui1dec4HZT1ajykAO9yg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi.
I have a mailing list, and it gets a lot of spam.  The spammers have gotten
very good at getting through my multiple layers of defense, spam assassin,
grey listing, SPF, DKIM, DMARC.  I hate the spammers.  Of all the difficult
things that systems administration handles; it's mail administration I hate
the most.  And I hate it because of spammers. scumbags.



The problem is when the "This message has been held by a moderator for
approval" messages come to me.

My Gmail is labeling those as spam.  They're labeling them as spam because
Mailman is forwarding the entire message to my moderator address (hosted on
Gmail).

I sure can't find any sort of dialog in the archives about how to do this,
and i haven't found an option to do what I want.

What I want:

I want the "there are 2 messages held for approval" type messages from
Mailman not to contain the spam. Don't contain anything in the message at
all, except the sender and maybe the subject. Instead of repeating all of
the spammy content, is there any way to get Mailman to  say something like
"Hey there's a message, go check it out"

The nature of the mailing list must allow for unknown people to contact the
mailing list; sometimes somebody we never heard of has to send mail to the
mailing list.  So a hard-rule white-list won't work.  So don't suggest
that.

From bryant at sandiego.edu  Thu May 11 12:13:29 2017
From: bryant at sandiego.edu (Bryan Teague)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 12:13:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hiding the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <33C0D766-C9E9-4121-A8C3-8CEAF061EACA@me.com>
References: <33C0D766-C9E9-4121-A8C3-8CEAF061EACA@me.com>
Message-ID: <030DADAD-0350-4511-895E-6A118263D53E@sandiego.edu>

Hi Jon, 

You don?t need to hide the mailing list name, as that is relatively impossible to do.   However, using the other settings in Mailman,  you can make the list an announce-only mailing list,  which is what it sounds like you want to do.  

Here is the outline from the mailman wiki: 
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20create%20a%20newsletter%2C%20announcement%2C%20or%20one-way%20list%3F <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20create%20a%20newsletter,%20announcement,%20or%20one-way%20list?>

One of the web hosting companies has a very good short synopsis as well: 

https://support.lunarpages.com/knowledge_bases/article/27?fallback=true <https://support.lunarpages.com/knowledge_bases/article/27?fallback=true>

Bryan



Bryan Teague | Senior Web Administrator  | University Web Services | ITS | Maher Hall, Room 198 
5998 Alcal? Park | San Diego, CA 92110-2492 | P: (619) 260-7842 | C: (619) 321-7288 
bryant at sandiego.edu <mailto:bryant at sandiego.edu>
> On May 11, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Jon Trepte <jontrepte at me.com> wrote:
> 
> Does anybody know how to stop the mail-list from appearing in the reply fields. I simply want the original poster to appear only. I don?t want recipients to be able to post to the list at all.
> Thanks in anticipatoin.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bryant%40sandiego.edu


From bryant at sandiego.edu  Thu May 11 12:41:43 2017
From: bryant at sandiego.edu (Bryan Teague)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 12:41:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hiding the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <030DADAD-0350-4511-895E-6A118263D53E@sandiego.edu>
References: <33C0D766-C9E9-4121-A8C3-8CEAF061EACA@me.com>
 <030DADAD-0350-4511-895E-6A118263D53E@sandiego.edu>
Message-ID: <DFC16E28-F177-472B-B8DA-52582D8756DE@sandiego.edu>

I did a bit more digging,  and found the following in the list archive: 

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2013-August/075505.html <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2013-August/075505.html>

which appears to address your issue almost directly. 

> Go to your list administrator's page for that list.
> Non-digest options -> Personalization
> Select "Full Personalization".
> Save the options.


If this option doesn't appear on that page, the installation needs to set

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes


Bryan Teague | Senior Web Administrator  | University Web Services | ITS | Maher Hall, Room 198 
5998 Alcal? Park | San Diego, CA 92110-2492 | P: (619) 260-7842 | C: (619) 321-7288 
bryant at sandiego.edu <mailto:bryant at sandiego.edu>
> On May 11, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Bryan Teague <bryant at sandiego.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jon, 
> 
> You don?t need to hide the mailing list name, as that is relatively impossible to do.   However, using the other settings in Mailman,  you can make the list an announce-only mailing list,  which is what it sounds like you want to do.  
> 
> Here is the outline from the mailman wiki: 
> https://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20create%20a%20newsletter%2C%20announcement%2C%20or%20one-way%20list%3F <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20create%20a%20newsletter,%20announcement,%20or%20one-way%20list?>
> 
> One of the web hosting companies has a very good short synopsis as well: 
> 
> https://support.lunarpages.com/knowledge_bases/article/27?fallback=true <https://support.lunarpages.com/knowledge_bases/article/27?fallback=true>
> 
> Bryan
> 
> 
> 
> Bryan Teague | Senior Web Administrator  | University Web Services | ITS | Maher Hall, Room 198 
> 5998 Alcal? Park | San Diego, CA 92110-2492 | P: (619) 260-7842 | C: (619) 321-7288 
> bryant at sandiego.edu <mailto:bryant at sandiego.edu>
>> On May 11, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Jon Trepte <jontrepte at me.com <mailto:jontrepte at me.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Does anybody know how to stop the mail-list from appearing in the reply fields. I simply want the original poster to appear only. I don?t want recipients to be able to post to the list at all.
>> Thanks in anticipatoin.
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org <mailto:Mailman-Users at python.org>
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bryant%40sandiego.edu
> 


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 11 13:07:56 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 10:07:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What happens when public_suffix_list.dat can't
 be loaded?
In-Reply-To: <783070D730A6B9273EE5762C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
References: <783070D730A6B9273EE5762C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <560194ca-c974-e85a-5762-2a0193dda7e7@msapiro.net>

On 05/11/2017 07:39 AM, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
> 
> AFAICT the list is only needed to map domain names to corresponding
> Organizational Domains in the context of DMARC handling. It looks to me
> as if that doesn't cause any problems, but I thought I'd ask ...


Yes, that is what the list is used for. The issue that could result is
if a poster is posting From: an address which is a sub-domain (e.g.
some.sub.yahoo.com) and which doesn't publish a DMARC policy, but the
organizational domain (yahoo.com in this case) publishes say p=reject,
dmarc_moderation_action won't be applied in this case. That may or may
not be an issue for any particular list depending on the addresses of
the posters.

Note that you can get rid of the error log messages by putting

DMARC_ORGANIZATIONAL_DOMAIN_DATA_URL = ''

in mm_cfg.py, but the risk in that is when Python is again able to
retrieve the list, you won't be getting it. Also note that the loading
of organizational domain data has been made more robust for Mailman 3
including a fallback list if current data can't be loaded.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 11 13:57:20 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 10:57:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] diagnosing messages missing from archives
In-Reply-To: <CABTRqU6Qpsucn+RaaA7iM9+UkGfoC8fMzXwUFc3-g6e8G8B9BQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABTRqU4PaXyB4NSbU+PUxd7v0hNUFsG2hopcbif6fKOmEXOP8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8b680f10-cd60-23df-f3a2-d517a24abd96@msapiro.net>
 <CABTRqU6Qpsucn+RaaA7iM9+UkGfoC8fMzXwUFc3-g6e8G8B9BQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6391fc5-3b06-14ba-33d8-176a7af96d63@msapiro.net>

On 05/11/2017 09:00 AM, Matt Morgan wrote:
> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 12:58 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>> In Mailman's directory (/usr/local/mailman in your case)
>>
>> bin/show_qfiles qfiles/shunt/*
>>
> 
> Just FYI, in case anyone's reading this in the list archives in future, you
> may need a "../" in front of "qfiles/shunt/*" there.


Are you saying in your case Mailman's qfiles directory is
/usr/local/qfiles? That seems unusual? Or did you do

cd /usr/local/mailman/bin
show_qfiles ../qfiles/shunt/*

...
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 63, in
> fixAuthor
>     while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase or
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xb5 in position 26:
> ordinal
> not in range(128)


The full statement throwing the exception is

        while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase or
                       L[i-1].lower() in smallNameParts):

lowercase is string.lowercase which from below appears to be all ascii.
smallNameParts is defined in the module as a list of short ascii strings

smallNameParts = ['van', 'von', 'der', 'de']

That leaves L as the only possible source of non-ascii. L is a list of
the 'words' in the From: display name, but at that point in the code, it
should be unicode. I suppose this may be involved in the issue, but then
what is the XXXXXXXXXX in the anonymized address below? Does it contain
non-ascii?


> Here is the output from the dumpdb command (anonymized a little):
> 
...
> From: XXXXXXXXXX <xxxxxxxx at me.com>


...
>> What do you get if you invoke Python interactively on this server and do
>>
>> import string
>> string.lowercase
>>
>> I get 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'
>>
> 
> I get the same thing! Does that make any sense?
> 
> xxxx at yyyyy:/usr/local/mailman/logs# python
> Python 2.7.5 (default, May 29 2013, 02:28:51)
> [GCC 4.8.0] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import string
>>>> string.lowercase
> 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'


I'm still leaning towards non-ascii in string.lowercase, because I think
that's the only thing it could be and because the \xb5 is in 0-based
position 26 which would be the caharacter after 'z'.

Is Python 2.7.5 (default, May 29 2013, 02:28:51) the python that Mailman
is using? Look at whatever script starts/stops/restarts Mailman and the
Python it uses and do the above test in that Python.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 11 14:15:07 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 11:15:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Held for approval -- too verbose
In-Reply-To: <CAKnVDC6VsvtnKzenpQYZPGFcZRB33pui1dec4HZT1ajykAO9yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKnVDC6VsvtnKzenpQYZPGFcZRB33pui1dec4HZT1ajykAO9yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a32ea5b1-4edf-4715-9db4-86514f6acaf4@msapiro.net>

On 05/10/2017 09:15 PM, Piet Barber via Mailman-Users wrote:
> 
> The problem is when the "This message has been held by a moderator for
> approval" messages come to me.
> 
> My Gmail is labeling those as spam.  They're labeling them as spam because
> Mailman is forwarding the entire message to my moderator address (hosted on
> Gmail).


That message is sent because admin_immed_notify is on.


> I sure can't find any sort of dialog in the archives about how to do this,
> and i haven't found an option to do what I want.
> 
> What I want:
> 
> I want the "there are 2 messages held for approval" type messages from
> Mailman not to contain the spam. Don't contain anything in the message at
> all, except the sender and maybe the subject. Instead of repeating all of
> the spammy content, is there any way to get Mailman to  say something like
> "Hey there's a message, go check it out"


The daily summary of held messages is what you want. If you turn off
admin_immed_notify, that's all you'll get. If you want it more
frequently than daily, it is produced by Mailman's cron/checkdbs. The
default crontab entry for that is

0 8 * * * /usr/bin/python -S $prefix/cron/checkdbs

If you have access, you can make it run more often, but it will affect
notices for all lists.

There is nothing short of modifying the code that will omit the held
message itself from the admin_immed_notify notice.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 11 20:25:29 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 17:25:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot approve a moderation-held post
In-Reply-To: <22802.49970.791873.917219@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <17984697-197d-2e5f-5aa5-e2435e95893c@caerllewys.net>
 <96568c4e-35b1-55b3-3044-3727ea58f305@msapiro.net>
 <0372e038-f43f-327c-f057-2d07cd5972e5@caerllewys.net>
 <22802.49970.791873.917219@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <bf72b2e7-eea9-381d-7126-e60f829f615d@msapiro.net>

On 05/10/2017 12:37 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> 
> Mark, would it be possible and desirable to give fix_url a check mode
> which would warn about what it wants to do?  Ie, so it could be run by
> default at startup or something like that, so there'd be a warning in
> the logs?  While I'm thinking weird things, how about running
> checkperms in check mode at startup?


I'll think on those.


> Sure, there would be a warning at startup for people who are smarter
> than we are, but if they're that smart, they can figure out how to
> defeat the warning themselves. ;-)  If they're *not* that smart, maybe
> they shouldn't be using a configuration that bothers our check
> scripts. ;-)  Yeah, there's the symlinks issue with checkperms, but
> maybe we should make checkperms check mode follow the symlinks.  WDOT?


check_perms DOES follow symlinks. The issue is Debian patch
<https://sources.debian.net/patches/mailman/1:2.1.23-1/52_check_perms_lstat.patch/>
which makes check_perms check the group of the symlink instead of the
target.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Mon May 15 10:29:00 2017
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 10:29:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list sponsorships
Message-ID: <CABTRqU5YQYtOYgh-DbHfxTQZQnJ51kiNNoyFVqbM5A+4ZaEQQw@mail.gmail.com>

Has anybody experimented with (or succeeded with) any form of mailman list
sponsorship? A nonprofit professional assocation I work for asked me for
advice about it. If there are current examples I'd be curious to see them.

Thanks,
Matt

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 15 13:53:34 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 10:53:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list sponsorships
In-Reply-To: <CABTRqU5YQYtOYgh-DbHfxTQZQnJ51kiNNoyFVqbM5A+4ZaEQQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABTRqU5YQYtOYgh-DbHfxTQZQnJ51kiNNoyFVqbM5A+4ZaEQQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44b0bfda-82de-88b4-1e59-450b061fd795@msapiro.net>

On 05/15/2017 07:29 AM, Matt Morgan wrote:
> Has anybody experimented with (or succeeded with) any form of mailman list
> sponsorship? A nonprofit professional assocation I work for asked me for
> advice about it. If there are current examples I'd be curious to see them.


I'm not sure if this is anything like what you have in mind, but if you
look at the bottom of any of the https://mail.python.org/mailman/* pages
(e.g. <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>) you will
see s DigitalOcean logo and a Hosted by DigitalOcean link. DigitalOcean
is in a sense a sponsor in that they provide the VPS that hosts
mail.python.org and we get a little bit of credit for click-throughs on
that link.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From chip at aresti.com  Mon May 15 15:13:39 2017
From: chip at aresti.com (Chip Davis)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 15:13:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list sponsorships
In-Reply-To: <44b0bfda-82de-88b4-1e59-450b061fd795@msapiro.net>
References: <CABTRqU5YQYtOYgh-DbHfxTQZQnJ51kiNNoyFVqbM5A+4ZaEQQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <44b0bfda-82de-88b4-1e59-450b061fd795@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <8edbe759-caac-8a27-1947-23e0cff17d27@aresti.com>

All of the Mailman lists I host/admin are provided free of charge, as 
a value-add to the members of various non-profit groups.  Insofar as 
the actual costs of providing a discussion or announcement list are 
hard to tease out, the best I could do would be to apportion the total 
costs of the servers they are on across all the other services I get. 
The income would be nice to offset my expenses but administering it 
would be nearly as great as that of adminning the lists themselves. 
So I treat it as my contribution to good causes.

Also, I have a philosophical/ethical problem with charging for simply 
providing a FOSS service.  I know it's allowed but still...

-Chip-

On 5/15/2017 1:53 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 05/15/2017 07:29 AM, Matt Morgan wrote:
>> Has anybody experimented with (or succeeded with) any form of mailman list
>> sponsorship? A nonprofit professional assocation I work for asked me for
>> advice about it. If there are current examples I'd be curious to see them.
>
>
> I'm not sure if this is anything like what you have in mind, but if you
> look at the bottom of any of the https://mail.python.org/mailman/* pages
> (e.g. <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>) you will
> see s DigitalOcean logo and a Hosted by DigitalOcean link. DigitalOcean
> is in a sense a sponsor in that they provide the VPS that hosts
> mail.python.org and we get a little bit of credit for click-throughs on
> that link.
>

From srb at umich.edu  Mon May 15 16:14:30 2017
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 16:14:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list sponsorships
In-Reply-To: <CABTRqU5YQYtOYgh-DbHfxTQZQnJ51kiNNoyFVqbM5A+4ZaEQQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABTRqU5YQYtOYgh-DbHfxTQZQnJ51kiNNoyFVqbM5A+4ZaEQQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28064298-B976-481A-B84F-D721C03E7035@umich.edu>

On 15 May 2017, at 10:29, Matt Morgan wrote:

> Has anybody experimented with (or succeeded with) any form of mailman 
> list
> sponsorship? A nonprofit professional assocation I work for asked me 
> for
> advice about it. If there are current examples I'd be curious to see 
> them.

If the nonprofit is a 503 (c), you can get free hosting from DreamHost, 
and host the mailing list on that host. Assuming you want to admin your 
own host, that is.

-- Steve

From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Mon May 15 16:19:05 2017
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 16:19:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list sponsorships
In-Reply-To: <44b0bfda-82de-88b4-1e59-450b061fd795@msapiro.net>
References: <CABTRqU5YQYtOYgh-DbHfxTQZQnJ51kiNNoyFVqbM5A+4ZaEQQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <44b0bfda-82de-88b4-1e59-450b061fd795@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CABTRqU7DScRQoYksTGqvRwAOiEG1i6haujKcGrrr1ZxWq7hsrA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 05/15/2017 07:29 AM, Matt Morgan wrote:
> > Has anybody experimented with (or succeeded with) any form of mailman
> list
> > sponsorship? A nonprofit professional assocation I work for asked me for
> > advice about it. If there are current examples I'd be curious to see
> them.
>
>
> I'm not sure if this is anything like what you have in mind, but if you
> look at the bottom of any of the https://mail.python.org/mailman/* pages
> (e.g. <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>) you will
> see s DigitalOcean logo and a Hosted by DigitalOcean link. DigitalOcean
> is in a sense a sponsor in that they provide the VPS that hosts
> mail.python.org and we get a little bit of credit for click-throughs on
> that link.
>

Yes, that's a great example, thanks!. I'd also love to see examples of a
sponsor message that's in the email messages (headers, footers,
digests)--or, I know there are lots of good reasons not to do that, too, so
it others considered it and ruled it out, it would be interesting to hear
how that transpired.

From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Mon May 15 16:25:17 2017
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 16:25:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list sponsorships
In-Reply-To: <8edbe759-caac-8a27-1947-23e0cff17d27@aresti.com>
References: <CABTRqU5YQYtOYgh-DbHfxTQZQnJ51kiNNoyFVqbM5A+4ZaEQQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <44b0bfda-82de-88b4-1e59-450b061fd795@msapiro.net>
 <8edbe759-caac-8a27-1947-23e0cff17d27@aresti.com>
Message-ID: <CABTRqU41uZrdPA8rJE2=VkJcXe3Cb0=fN5uNv3yDm-LDHtoZDg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Chip Davis <chip at aresti.com> wrote:

> All of the Mailman lists I host/admin are provided free of charge, as a
> value-add to the members of various non-profit groups.  Insofar as the
> actual costs of providing a discussion or announcement list are hard to
> tease out, the best I could do would be to apportion the total costs of the
> servers they are on across all the other services I get. The income would
> be nice to offset my expenses but administering it would be nearly as great
> as that of adminning the lists themselves. So I treat it as my contribution
> to good causes.
>
> Also, I have a philosophical/ethical problem with charging for simply
> providing a FOSS service.  I know it's allowed but still...
>
> -Chip-
>


This is not about charging for mailman service, but rather the value-add of
the community. I.e., it's a list for a professionals with ~10K subscribers.
The list used to be run out of a university that dropped support for it
several years ago. It was adopted by a nonprofit association, which pays
money to keep the list running. This is about offsetting the cost of
running the list, by allowing sponsorship by for profit members of the
community who benefit from it.

It's not unlike corporate support of FOSS, for example.


> On 5/15/2017 1:53 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> On 05/15/2017 07:29 AM, Matt Morgan wrote:
>>
>>> Has anybody experimented with (or succeeded with) any form of mailman
>>> list
>>> sponsorship? A nonprofit professional assocation I work for asked me for
>>> advice about it. If there are current examples I'd be curious to see
>>> them.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not sure if this is anything like what you have in mind, but if you
>> look at the bottom of any of the https://mail.python.org/mailman/* pages
>> (e.g. <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>) you will
>> see s DigitalOcean logo and a Hosted by DigitalOcean link. DigitalOcean
>> is in a sense a sponsor in that they provide the VPS that hosts
>> mail.python.org and we get a little bit of credit for click-throughs on
>> that link.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ma
> ilman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/minxme
> rtzmomo%40gmail.com
>

From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Mon May 15 16:27:05 2017
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 16:27:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list sponsorships
In-Reply-To: <28064298-B976-481A-B84F-D721C03E7035@umich.edu>
References: <CABTRqU5YQYtOYgh-DbHfxTQZQnJ51kiNNoyFVqbM5A+4ZaEQQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <28064298-B976-481A-B84F-D721C03E7035@umich.edu>
Message-ID: <CABTRqU6jNqnU=7r-CcOKtKjyLYW5nwdOmKFNZM27yEmhOQt9iA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Steve Burling <srb at umich.edu> wrote:

> On 15 May 2017, at 10:29, Matt Morgan wrote:
>
> Has anybody experimented with (or succeeded with) any form of mailman list
>> sponsorship? A nonprofit professional assocation I work for asked me for
>> advice about it. If there are current examples I'd be curious to see them.
>>
>
> If the nonprofit is a 503 (c), you can get free hosting from DreamHost,
> and host the mailing list on that host. Assuming you want to admin your own
> host, that is.
>
>
Interesting, thanks. In this case the hosting cost is a smaller piece of
the pie, but I'll look into that.

From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Mon May 15 16:41:56 2017
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 16:41:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] diagnosing messages missing from archives
In-Reply-To: <b6391fc5-3b06-14ba-33d8-176a7af96d63@msapiro.net>
References: <CABTRqU4PaXyB4NSbU+PUxd7v0hNUFsG2hopcbif6fKOmEXOP8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8b680f10-cd60-23df-f3a2-d517a24abd96@msapiro.net>
 <CABTRqU6Qpsucn+RaaA7iM9+UkGfoC8fMzXwUFc3-g6e8G8B9BQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <b6391fc5-3b06-14ba-33d8-176a7af96d63@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CABTRqU6W5FUte+_i9AaBGbofdenA+eT+K=jPLCMFGNYgdCO=Gg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 05/11/2017 09:00 AM, Matt Morgan wrote:
> > On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 12:58 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> In Mailman's directory (/usr/local/mailman in your case)
> >>
> >> bin/show_qfiles qfiles/shunt/*
> >>
> >
> > Just FYI, in case anyone's reading this in the list archives in future,
> you
> > may need a "../" in front of "qfiles/shunt/*" there.
>
>
> Are you saying in your case Mailman's qfiles directory is
> /usr/local/qfiles? That seems unusual? Or did you do
>
> cd /usr/local/mailman/bin
> show_qfiles ../qfiles/shunt/*
>

You're right, sorry! I misread your instruction.


>
> ...
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 63, in
> > fixAuthor
> >     while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase or
> > UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xb5 in position 26:
> > ordinal
> > not in range(128)
>
>
> The full statement throwing the exception is
>
>         while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase or
>                        L[i-1].lower() in smallNameParts):
>
> lowercase is string.lowercase which from below appears to be all ascii.
> smallNameParts is defined in the module as a list of short ascii strings
>
> smallNameParts = ['van', 'von', 'der', 'de']
>
> That leaves L as the only possible source of non-ascii. L is a list of
> the 'words' in the From: display name, but at that point in the code, it
> should be unicode. I suppose this may be involved in the issue, but then
> what is the XXXXXXXXXX in the anonymized address below? Does it contain
> non-ascii?
>

in this example it is all regular letters. The list is a very international
so on the whole we would definitely be dealing with every possible alphabet
(but not this time).



>
>
> > Here is the output from the dumpdb command (anonymized a little):
> >
> ...
> > From: XXXXXXXXXX <xxxxxxxx at me.com>
>
>
> ...
> >> What do you get if you invoke Python interactively on this server and do
> >>
> >> import string
> >> string.lowercase
> >>
> >> I get 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'
> >>
> >
> > I get the same thing! Does that make any sense?
> >
> > xxxx at yyyyy:/usr/local/mailman/logs# python
> > Python 2.7.5 (default, May 29 2013, 02:28:51)
> > [GCC 4.8.0] on linux2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>> import string
> >>>> string.lowercase
> > 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'
>
>
> I'm still leaning towards non-ascii in string.lowercase, because I think
> that's the only thing it could be and because the \xb5 is in 0-based
> position 26 which would be the caharacter after 'z'.
>
> Is Python 2.7.5 (default, May 29 2013, 02:28:51) the python that Mailman
> is using? Look at whatever script starts/stops/restarts Mailman and the
> Python it uses and do the above test in that Python.
>

It looks like it's 2.7.5 but this is an ancient server (it's been kept
alive and upgraded since at least 2009) I inherited and I'm never 100%
confident I know how it works.

It's a customized Slack (which I'm not familiar with in the first place).
Init scripts are in /etc/rc.d and /etc/rc.d/rc.mailman has a line

PYTHON=/usr/bin/python

and I get

root at cool:/etc/rc.d# /usr/bin/python --version
Python 2.7.5

Nothing in /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl seems to suggest it uses any
other python that what the init script uses? But again, not being a
Slack-jockey in the first place, if there's somewhere else to look I would
miss it.

Thanks again!
Matt

From guest2 at sgeinc.com  Mon May 15 17:17:09 2017
From: guest2 at sgeinc.com (Richard Shetron)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 17:17:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list sponsorships
In-Reply-To: <8edbe759-caac-8a27-1947-23e0cff17d27@aresti.com>
References: <CABTRqU5YQYtOYgh-DbHfxTQZQnJ51kiNNoyFVqbM5A+4ZaEQQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <44b0bfda-82de-88b4-1e59-450b061fd795@msapiro.net>
 <8edbe759-caac-8a27-1947-23e0cff17d27@aresti.com>
Message-ID: <40937d06-193e-5a38-8cd7-3217384dc78c@sgeinc.com>

What I've always done is offered special pricing, usually at least 50% 
off for charitable 503(c) and other 'public service' type groups.  It 
more depended on the resources they required and the amount of hand holding.

On 5/15/17 3:13 PM, Chip Davis wrote:
> All of the Mailman lists I host/admin are provided free of charge, as a 
> value-add to the members of various non-profit groups.  Insofar as the 
> actual costs of providing a discussion or announcement list are hard to 
> tease out, the best I could do would be to apportion the total costs of 
> the servers they are on across all the other services I get. The income 
> would be nice to offset my expenses but administering it would be nearly 
> as great as that of adminning the lists themselves. So I treat it as my 
> contribution to good causes.
> 
> Also, I have a philosophical/ethical problem with charging for simply 
> providing a FOSS service.  I know it's allowed but still...
[snip]

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 15 18:07:45 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 15:07:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] diagnosing messages missing from archives
In-Reply-To: <CABTRqU6W5FUte+_i9AaBGbofdenA+eT+K=jPLCMFGNYgdCO=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABTRqU4PaXyB4NSbU+PUxd7v0hNUFsG2hopcbif6fKOmEXOP8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8b680f10-cd60-23df-f3a2-d517a24abd96@msapiro.net>
 <CABTRqU6Qpsucn+RaaA7iM9+UkGfoC8fMzXwUFc3-g6e8G8B9BQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <b6391fc5-3b06-14ba-33d8-176a7af96d63@msapiro.net>
 <CABTRqU6W5FUte+_i9AaBGbofdenA+eT+K=jPLCMFGNYgdCO=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c77279d2-2987-e0f6-f691-d86ea93560dc@msapiro.net>

On 05/15/2017 01:41 PM, Matt Morgan wrote:
> 
> 
> It's a customized Slack (which I'm not familiar with in the first
> place). Init scripts are in /etc/rc.d and /etc/rc.d/rc.mailman has a line
> 
> PYTHON=/usr/bin/python
> 
> and I get
> 
> root at cool:/etc/rc.d# /usr/bin/python --version
> Python 2.7.5


What do you get when you invoke /usr/bin/python and then do

import string
string.lowercase

If that produces 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz', I suggest you try

sudo service mailman stop

and then after all the mailman processes are stopped (see
<https://wiki.list.org/x/4030715>)

sudo service mailman start

and see if that helps.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From chip at aresti.com  Mon May 15 18:29:15 2017
From: chip at aresti.com (Chip Davis)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 18:29:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list sponsorships
In-Reply-To: <40937d06-193e-5a38-8cd7-3217384dc78c@sgeinc.com>
References: <CABTRqU5YQYtOYgh-DbHfxTQZQnJ51kiNNoyFVqbM5A+4ZaEQQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <44b0bfda-82de-88b4-1e59-450b061fd795@msapiro.net>
 <8edbe759-caac-8a27-1947-23e0cff17d27@aresti.com>
 <40937d06-193e-5a38-8cd7-3217384dc78c@sgeinc.com>
Message-ID: <36c6efe0-d0bf-0ef3-69bb-3ffeb235b3cd@aresti.com>

As Matt pointed out to me off-list, a lot of FOSS is provided for a 
profit.

I live about five miles from Red Hat, and teach Linux for a living. 
Perhaps I should have been more specific that "I have a 
philosophical/ethical problem with MY charging for simply providing a 
FOSS service."

While I would love to monetize the time I put into adminning the 
lists, it would be a pain to fairly calculate (or keep track of) it, 
so I consider it a mitzvah.

YMMV,

-Chip-

On 5/15/2017 5:17 PM, Richard Shetron wrote:
> What I've always done is offered special pricing, usually at least 50%
> off for charitable 503(c) and other 'public service' type groups.  It
> more depended on the resources they required and the amount of hand
> holding.
>
> On 5/15/17 3:13 PM, Chip Davis wrote:
>> All of the Mailman lists I host/admin are provided free of charge,
>> as a value-add to the members of various non-profit groups.  Insofar
>> as the actual costs of providing a discussion or announcement list
>> are hard to tease out, the best I could do would be to apportion the
>> total costs of the servers they are on across all the other services
>> I get. The income would be nice to offset my expenses but
>> administering it would be nearly as great as that of adminning the
>> lists themselves. So I treat it as my contribution to good causes.
>>
>> Also, I have a philosophical/ethical problem with charging for
>> simply providing a FOSS service.  I know it's allowed but still...
> [snip]
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/chip%40aresti.com
>

From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Tue May 16 10:07:35 2017
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 10:07:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] diagnosing messages missing from archives
In-Reply-To: <c77279d2-2987-e0f6-f691-d86ea93560dc@msapiro.net>
References: <CABTRqU4PaXyB4NSbU+PUxd7v0hNUFsG2hopcbif6fKOmEXOP8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8b680f10-cd60-23df-f3a2-d517a24abd96@msapiro.net>
 <CABTRqU6Qpsucn+RaaA7iM9+UkGfoC8fMzXwUFc3-g6e8G8B9BQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <b6391fc5-3b06-14ba-33d8-176a7af96d63@msapiro.net>
 <CABTRqU6W5FUte+_i9AaBGbofdenA+eT+K=jPLCMFGNYgdCO=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c77279d2-2987-e0f6-f691-d86ea93560dc@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CABTRqU4LpsdA-8PmaRHWXEg3yKNhkh5gpBSZvU=OfZ=vHPm7_A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 6:07 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 05/15/2017 01:41 PM, Matt Morgan wrote:
> >
> >
> > It's a customized Slack (which I'm not familiar with in the first
> > place). Init scripts are in /etc/rc.d and /etc/rc.d/rc.mailman has a line
> >
> > PYTHON=/usr/bin/python
> >
> > and I get
> >
> > root at cool:/etc/rc.d# /usr/bin/python --version
> > Python 2.7.5
>
>
> What do you get when you invoke /usr/bin/python and then do
>
> import string
> string.lowercase
>
> If that produces 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz',


It did.


> I suggest you try
>
> sudo service mailman stop
>
> and then after all the mailman processes are stopped (see
> <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030715>)
>
> sudo service mailman start
>
> and see if that helps.
>

Makes sense. I will report back when I have more data. Thanks!

From rafi at brijnet.org  Thu May 18 09:41:52 2017
From: rafi at brijnet.org (Rafael Salasnik)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 14:41:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman @ hostgator
Message-ID: <3wTCPS3m18zFqWq@mail.python.org>

I've had to move all my domains. The old host has kindly let me keep 
mailman on hi server for a short time but my new host will only 
provide Mailman from later in the year in the meantime a friend who 
has a hostgator reseller account has offered to let me have mailman 
on there but having looked through their documentation it's unclear 
if they have it there & If they do, how to set it up

Does anyone have mailman on hostgator or have experience of setting 
up on there?

Thanks


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com


From bryant at sandiego.edu  Thu May 18 10:31:57 2017
From: bryant at sandiego.edu (Bryan Teague)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 10:31:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman @ hostgator
In-Reply-To: <3wTCPS3m18zFqWq@mail.python.org>
References: <3wTCPS3m18zFqWq@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <B5E082AE-D524-468D-B303-3412468A8D92@sandiego.edu>

Mailman comes standard on Hostgator accounts that utilize cPanel.  You log in, and search for Mailing Lists.  You can create the mailing lists at that point.  You will have all of the GUI controls available through the web interface, but that is pretty much it. 

The only thing to be cautious about is if you have either numerous mailing lists that are somewhat active, or a few mailings lists that are very active, the reseller account (unless he has a dedicated system) could be at risk for exceeding the resource utilization allocated to his virtual resource slice.  It?s been a while since I was a hostgator reseller,  but I want to say there is some kind of limit on emails as well.  

Other than that,  I did not have any other issues with Hostgator.  Since he is a reseller,  he can configure the number of mailing lists you have available to you.  

Bryan



Bryan Teague | Senior Web Administrator  | University Web Services | ITS | Maher Hall, Room 198 
5998 Alcal? Park | San Diego, CA 92110-2492 | P: (619) 260-7842 | C: (619) 321-7288 
bryant at sandiego.edu <mailto:bryant at sandiego.edu>
> On May 18, 2017, at 9:41 AM, Rafael Salasnik <rafi at brijnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I've had to move all my domains. The old host has kindly let me keep mailman on hi server for a short time but my new host will only provide Mailman from later in the year in the meantime a friend who has a hostgator reseller account has offered to let me have mailman on there but having looked through their documentation it's unclear if they have it there & If they do, how to set it up
> 
> Does anyone have mailman on hostgator or have experience of setting up on there?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bryant%40sandiego.edu


From dwardell at mifnet.com  Thu May 18 10:53:33 2017
From: dwardell at mifnet.com (dwardell at mifnet.com)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 10:53:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emergency Moderation Problem
Message-ID: <BEAFD287-06F2-4BC1-94EC-FB7B8488426A@mifnet.com>

All,

I've been a happy mailman user for over 10 years and haven't had to trouble this list until now. Hopefully this isn't an obvious question. I've looked through the list archive as much as I can and don't see that it's been previously discussed. 

Recently I enabled "Emergency Moderation" briefly, but when I disabled it the system doesn't return to the normal state--all traffic is still moderated even though EM is off. 

When reviewing posts that are awaiting approval, the option to clear the subscriber's moderation flag appears, but checking the box has no effect. No subscribers should be set to mod. 

Further, the system will occasionally set a subscriber's mod flag to on when a post is held, even though that box was not checked before. Clearing these flags also has no effect. 

I've tried the simple, obvious things like reenabling EM and then disabling, with no result. 

I'm not sure how to troubleshoot this problem and would appreciate and direction. 

The mailman version is 2.1.23 using the standard cPanel distribution. 

Many thanks in advance. 

Sent from David Wardell's mobile. Please excuse any typos.

David Wardell





From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 19 10:34:04 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 07:34:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emergency Moderation Problem
In-Reply-To: <BEAFD287-06F2-4BC1-94EC-FB7B8488426A@mifnet.com>
References: <BEAFD287-06F2-4BC1-94EC-FB7B8488426A@mifnet.com>
Message-ID: <8897ee9e-c00d-0010-8b51-acbd18405460@msapiro.net>

On 5/18/17 7:53 AM, dwardell at mifnet.com wrote:
> 
> Recently I enabled "Emergency Moderation" briefly, but when I disabled it the system doesn't return to the normal state--all traffic is still moderated even though EM is off. 
> 
> When reviewing posts that are awaiting approval, the option to clear the subscriber's moderation flag appears, but checking the box has no effect. No subscribers should be set to mod. 


Ensure that General Options -> emergency is No and also on the
Membership Management... -> Membership List page under "Additional
Member Tasks" set "Set everyone's moderation bit, including those
members not currently visible" to Off and click "Set" to ensure all mod
flags are off.


> Further, the system will occasionally set a subscriber's mod flag to on when a post is held, even though that box was not checked before. Clearing these flags also has no effect. 
...> The mailman version is 2.1.23 using the standard cPanel distribution.


These things are very strange, but I have no idea what could cause that.
See <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20CPanel>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Fri May 19 21:45:25 2017
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2017 10:45:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list sponsorships
In-Reply-To: <CABTRqU7DScRQoYksTGqvRwAOiEG1i6haujKcGrrr1ZxWq7hsrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABTRqU5YQYtOYgh-DbHfxTQZQnJ51kiNNoyFVqbM5A+4ZaEQQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <44b0bfda-82de-88b4-1e59-450b061fd795@msapiro.net>
 <CABTRqU7DScRQoYksTGqvRwAOiEG1i6haujKcGrrr1ZxWq7hsrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22815.40885.216072.840302@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Matt Morgan writes:

 > Yes, that's a great example, thanks!. I'd also love to see examples of a
 > sponsor message that's in the email messages (headers, footers,
 > digests)

Subject header: not enough room.

X-Face: you'd have to rotate sponsors if more than one, and it gets
attached to From so only appropriate for announce lists.  But an
interesting idea for those.

Body header: don't do that unless not only does the donation cover list
costs but also allows a dividend to the membership. ;-)

Digests: I think you'd have to alter the code to add stuff outside the
posts themselves.  Not a big deal though, post here for help
("Reply-To: self" appreciated on that kind of thing).  Also, the
content-type is text/plain, so logos are kind of out of the question
here.  It's possible that text/html would be possible, but I suspect
that is a major feature request.

In non-digests, footer is good IMO.  Again, a problem is that it's
text/plain.  text/html might work for you, but we know from dire
experience that we can't afford to support it because: popular MUAs.
(Unpopular MUAs can be supported because they generally are unpopular
*because* they conform to relevant standards. :-P  Go figure....)

 > --or, I know there are lots of good reasons not to do that, too, so
 > it others considered it and ruled it out, it would be interesting
 > to hear how that transpired.

I can't think of a good reason to not say "thank you", except when you
say thank you to one supporter and not others. ;-)

Above is all IME IMHO YMMV (and everybody else MMV too).

Steve

From tom.robinson at motec.com.au  Tue May 23 02:35:58 2017
From: tom.robinson at motec.com.au (Tom Robinson)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 16:35:58 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman won't send messages
Message-ID: <755d9297-e721-b050-26b2-acd93c306702@motec.com.au>

CentOS 7.3.1611
mailman-2.1.15-21.el7_1.x86_64 (RPM)
postfix-2.10.1-6.el7.x86_64

Hi,

I configured mailman last year and have had several lists working. It seems something has changed
and now we can't send messages via the lists any more.

Following the
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.78%20Troubleshooting-%20No%20mail%20going%20out%20to%20lists%20members
guide didn't help.

# check_perms
No problems found

# ps auxww| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
mailman  10512  0.0  0.1 231612 10548 ?        Ss   15:40   0:00 /usr/bin/python
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start

Aliases are defined in /etc/mailmain/aliases which is quite large as we have a lot of lists.

# wc -l /etc/mailman/aliases
246 /etc/mailman/aliases
grep mailman /etc/mailman/aliases | wc -l
173

And in postfix I have this for aliases:

main.cf:alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases

Typically the Aliases look like this:

mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
# STANZA START: mailman
mailman:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

SMTP is up and running. This is a working mailserver delvering email 24/7.
# netstat -na |grep ":25 "

tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:25              0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN    
tcp6       0      0 :::25                   :::*                    LISTEN    
tcp6       0      0 ::1:25                  ::1:36704               TIME_WAIT 
# telnet localhost 25
Trying ::1...
Connected to localhost.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 camber.motec.com.au ESMTP Postfix
quit
221 2.0.0 Bye
Connection closed by foreign host.

This maybe something but I don't know:

# ls -l ~mailman/locks
ls: cannot access /usr/lib/mailman/locks: No such file or directory

But actually I think the locks are in /var/lock ...

# ls -l /var/lock/mailman/
total 8
-rw-rw-r--. 2 mailman mailman 58 May 24  2017 master-qrunner
-rw-rw-r--. 2 mailman mailman 58 May 24  2017 master-qrunner.camber.motec.com.au.10512

# ps aux | grep 10512 | grep -v grep
mailman  10512  0.0  0.1 231612 10548 ?        Ss   15:40   0:00 /usr/bin/python
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start

Any clues for solving this are much appreciated.

Kind regards,

Tom

-- 

Tom Robinson
IT Manager/System Administrator

MoTeC Pty Ltd

121 Merrindale Drive
Croydon South
3136 Victoria
Australia

T: +61 3 9761 5050
F: +61 3 9761 5051   
E: tom.robinson at motec.com.au


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From tom.robinson at motec.com.au  Tue May 23 02:47:31 2017
From: tom.robinson at motec.com.au (Tom Robinson)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 16:47:31 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman won't send messages
In-Reply-To: <755d9297-e721-b050-26b2-acd93c306702@motec.com.au>
References: <755d9297-e721-b050-26b2-acd93c306702@motec.com.au>
Message-ID: <18387d1f-4945-bc9a-8fec-d70a14bee5e0@motec.com.au>

Hi Again,

Here's some log output when sending to the 'announce' list:

==> /var/log/maillog <==
May 23 16:42:35 camber postfix/smtpd[15660]: connect from localhost[127.0.0.1]
May 23 16:42:35 camber postfix/smtpd[15660]: 59F4816819A: client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
May 23 16:42:35 camber postfix/cleanup[15930]: 59F4816819A:
message-id=<1fd4a284-1e4d-064e-1e2d-1b35d4e94a1c at motec.com.au>
May 23 16:42:35 camber postfix/qmgr[11201]: 59F4816819A: from=<tom.robinson at motec.com.au>,
size=1855, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
May 23 16:42:35 camber amavis[16194]: (16194-01) Passed CLEAN {RelayedInternal}, MYNETS LOCAL
[192.168.0.74]:47558 <tom.robinson at motec.com.au> -> <announce at motec.com.au>, Queue-ID: 7AFB816BE5F,
Message-ID: <1fd4a284-1e4d-064e-1e2d-1b35d4e94a1c at motec.com.au>, mail_id: LvD-tlWBSEBe, Hits: -3,
size: 1259, queued_as: 59F4816819A, dkim_sd=mail.motec.com.au:motec.com.au, 834 ms
May 23 16:42:35 camber postfix/lmtp[15931]: 7AFB816BE5F: to=<announce at motec.com.au>,
relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=0.97, delays=0.12/0/0.01/0.83, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250
2.0.0 from MTA(smtp:[127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 59F4816819A)
May 23 16:42:35 camber postfix/qmgr[11201]: 7AFB816BE5F: removed
May 23 16:42:35 camber postfix/local[16191]: 59F4816819A: to=<announce at motec.com.au>, relay=local,
delay=0.22, delays=0.05/0/0/0.17, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post announce)
May 23 16:42:35 camber postfix/qmgr[11201]: 59F4816819A: removed

==> /var/log/mailman/vette <==
May 23 16:42:35 2017 (10516) Message discarded, msgid:
<1fd4a284-1e4d-064e-1e2d-1b35d4e94a1c at motec.com.au>

Kind regards,
Tom

On 23/05/17 16:35, Tom Robinson wrote:
> CentOS 7.3.1611
> mailman-2.1.15-21.el7_1.x86_64 (RPM)
> postfix-2.10.1-6.el7.x86_64
>
> Hi,
>
> I configured mailman last year and have had several lists working. It seems something has changed
> and now we can't send messages via the lists any more.
>
> Following the
> https://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.78%20Troubleshooting-%20No%20mail%20going%20out%20to%20lists%20members
> guide didn't help.
>
> # check_perms
> No problems found
>
> # ps auxww| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
> mailman  10512  0.0  0.1 231612 10548 ?        Ss   15:40   0:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start
>
> Aliases are defined in /etc/mailmain/aliases which is quite large as we have a lot of lists.
>
> # wc -l /etc/mailman/aliases
> 246 /etc/mailman/aliases
> grep mailman /etc/mailman/aliases | wc -l
> 173
>
> And in postfix I have this for aliases:
>
> main.cf:alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
>
> Typically the Aliases look like this:
>
> mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
> # STANZA START: mailman
> mailman:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
> mailman-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
> mailman-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
> mailman-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
> mailman-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
> mailman-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
> mailman-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
> mailman-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
> mailman-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
> mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
> # STANZA END: mailman
>
> SMTP is up and running. This is a working mailserver delvering email 24/7.
> # netstat -na |grep ":25 "
>
> tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:25              0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN    
> tcp6       0      0 :::25                   :::*                    LISTEN    
> tcp6       0      0 ::1:25                  ::1:36704               TIME_WAIT 
> # telnet localhost 25
> Trying ::1...
> Connected to localhost.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> 220 camber.motec.com.au ESMTP Postfix
> quit
> 221 2.0.0 Bye
> Connection closed by foreign host.
>
> This maybe something but I don't know:
>
> # ls -l ~mailman/locks
> ls: cannot access /usr/lib/mailman/locks: No such file or directory
>
> But actually I think the locks are in /var/lock ...
>
> # ls -l /var/lock/mailman/
> total 8
> -rw-rw-r--. 2 mailman mailman 58 May 24  2017 master-qrunner
> -rw-rw-r--. 2 mailman mailman 58 May 24  2017 master-qrunner.camber.motec.com.au.10512
>
> # ps aux | grep 10512 | grep -v grep
> mailman  10512  0.0  0.1 231612 10548 ?        Ss   15:40   0:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start
>
> Any clues for solving this are much appreciated.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Tom
>


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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 23 11:01:10 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 08:01:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman won't send messages
In-Reply-To: <18387d1f-4945-bc9a-8fec-d70a14bee5e0@motec.com.au>
References: <755d9297-e721-b050-26b2-acd93c306702@motec.com.au>
 <18387d1f-4945-bc9a-8fec-d70a14bee5e0@motec.com.au>
Message-ID: <82ac3503-010c-950a-7995-131aafe776ab@msapiro.net>

On 5/22/17 11:47 PM, Tom Robinson wrote:
>
> ==> /var/log/mailman/vette <==
> May 23 16:42:35 2017 (10516) Message discarded, msgid:
> <1fd4a284-1e4d-064e-1e2d-1b35d4e94a1c at motec.com.au>

The message was discarded by a handler in the incoming pipeline. See
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-July/081004.html>
for a list of handlers and reasons.

The usual reason is an HTML only post to a list that doesn't accept HTML
causing content filtering to remove the entire message, but it may be
something else.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Wed May 24 17:04:19 2017
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 17:04:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce alias and bonce processing
Message-ID: <20170524210419.GA10772@panix.com>

Hello

I changed the owner alias for my mailing list and now I think the
bounces are not processing like they should.  Is that possible?

Ruben


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 24 17:10:34 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 14:10:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce alias and bonce processing
In-Reply-To: <20170524210419.GA10772@panix.com>
References: <20170524210419.GA10772@panix.com>
Message-ID: <74435090-bb35-d8e7-b109-82dd096f70d2@msapiro.net>

On 5/24/17 2:04 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I changed the owner alias for my mailing list and now I think the
> bounces are not processing like they should.  Is that possible?


What exactly did you change?

Bounce processing should only depend on the LIST-bounces alias but
LIST-owner will affect delivery of many notices.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 24 19:30:46 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 16:30:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emergency Moderation Problem
In-Reply-To: <BEAFD287-06F2-4BC1-94EC-FB7B8488426A@mifnet.com>
References: <BEAFD287-06F2-4BC1-94EC-FB7B8488426A@mifnet.com>
Message-ID: <17f5dc7e-a532-ef84-a010-d3742edb4566@msapiro.net>

On 5/18/17 7:53 AM, dwardell at mifnet.com wrote:
>
> Recently I enabled "Emergency Moderation" briefly, but when I disabled
> it the system doesn't return to the normal state--all traffic is still
> moderated even though EM is off.
>
> When reviewing posts that are awaiting approval, the option to clear
> the subscriber's moderation flag appears, but checking the box has no
> effect. No subscribers should be set to mod.
...
> Further, the system will occasionally set a subscriber's mod flag to
> on when a post is held, even though that box was not checked before.
> Clearing these flags also has no effect.


It turns out there was a bug in the new member_verbosity_threshold
feature such that if the threshold was set to 1, every post would be
held and set the members mod flag. The bug report is at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1693366> and the fix is at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1704>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jimpop at gmail.com  Thu May 25 10:50:52 2017
From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 10:50:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emergency Moderation Problem
In-Reply-To: <17f5dc7e-a532-ef84-a010-d3742edb4566@msapiro.net>
References: <BEAFD287-06F2-4BC1-94EC-FB7B8488426A@mifnet.com>
 <17f5dc7e-a532-ef84-a010-d3742edb4566@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAGfsgR0cqYnVC-JY6_rwHwwv+Fk1PUy8uuvEmnH1Vvxyi5QACw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 5/18/17 7:53 AM, dwardell at mifnet.com wrote:
>>
>> Recently I enabled "Emergency Moderation" briefly, but when I disabled
>> it the system doesn't return to the normal state--all traffic is still
>> moderated even though EM is off.
>>
>> When reviewing posts that are awaiting approval, the option to clear
>> the subscriber's moderation flag appears, but checking the box has no
>> effect. No subscribers should be set to mod.
> ...
>> Further, the system will occasionally set a subscriber's mod flag to
>> on when a post is held, even though that box was not checked before.
>> Clearing these flags also has no effect.
>
>
> It turns out there was a bug in the new member_verbosity_threshold
> feature such that if the threshold was set to 1, every post would be
> held and set the members mod flag. The bug report is at
> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1693366> and the fix is at
> <http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1704>.

Not trying to nitpick, but if the threshold was set to 1 every post
should result in moderation according to the descriptive text for that
feature:

   "If a member posts this many times, within a period of time the
member is automatically moderated."


Who writes crap like that anyways?   :-)

-Jim P.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 25 11:06:41 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 08:06:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emergency Moderation Problem
In-Reply-To: <CAGfsgR0cqYnVC-JY6_rwHwwv+Fk1PUy8uuvEmnH1Vvxyi5QACw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BEAFD287-06F2-4BC1-94EC-FB7B8488426A@mifnet.com>
 <17f5dc7e-a532-ef84-a010-d3742edb4566@msapiro.net>
 <CAGfsgR0cqYnVC-JY6_rwHwwv+Fk1PUy8uuvEmnH1Vvxyi5QACw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1447adb7-c746-0750-5343-cf777a4b7d4b@msapiro.net>

On 5/25/17 7:50 AM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>> It turns out there was a bug in the new member_verbosity_threshold
>> feature such that if the threshold was set to 1, every post would be
>> held and set the members mod flag. The bug report is at
>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1693366> and the fix is at
>> <http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1704>.
> 
> Not trying to nitpick, but if the threshold was set to 1 every post
> should result in moderation according to the descriptive text for that
> feature:
> 
>    "If a member posts this many times, within a period of time the
> member is automatically moderated."


I agree that that statement is clear and with my "fix" is not strictly
true any more. However, the summary statement says "Ceiling on
acceptable number of member posts, per interval, before automatic
moderation." implies that the threshold is the maximum number accepted
before moderation, so it's ambiguous.

I considered changing the detail description, but didn't for i18n reasons.

I do think that no one really want's the prior behavior with threshold = 1.


> Who writes crap like that anyways?   :-)


Could his initials be JP ;-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From barry at list.org  Thu May 25 19:28:00 2017
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:28:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ANNOUNCE: Mailman 3.1.0 final!
Message-ID: <20170525162800.5d2c681b@presto>

Hello Mailpeople!

On behalf of the entire team and all our wonderful contributors, I'm happy to
announce the release of GNU Mailman 3.1 final.  My deep thanks go to all the
Mailman project sprinters at Pycon 2017 for getting us over the line!

Two years after the original release of Mailman 3.0, this version contains a
huge number of improvements across the entire stack.  Many bugs have been
fixed and new features added in the Core, Postorius (web u/i), and HyperKitty
(archiver).  Upgrading from Mailman 2.1 should be better too.  We are seeing
more production sites adopt Mailman 3, and we've been getting great feedback
as these have rolled out.

Important: mailman-bundler, our previous recommended way of deploying Mailman
3, has been deprecated.  Abhilash Raj is putting the finishing touches on
Docker images to deploy everything, and he'll have a further announcement in a
week or two.

Feedback is welcome:
https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman

What is GNU Mailman?

GNU Mailman is free software for managing electronic mail discussion and
e-newsletter lists.  Mailman is integrated with the web, making it easy for
users to manage their accounts and for list owners to administer their lists.
Mailman supports built-in archiving, automatic bounce processing, content
filtering, digest delivery, and more.  Mailman 3 is released under the terms
of the GNU General Public License, version 3.

The best places to start for all things related to this release:

    http://docs.mailman3.org/
    http://www.list.org/
    https://gitlab.com/mailman

(Note: due to timezone skew, some of the tarballs may not be available on PyPI
until tomorrow.)

Happy Mailman Day,
-Your friendly neighborhood cabal

An overview of what's new in Mailman 3.1
========================================

Feature parity with Mailman 2.1
-------------------------------
* You should be able to do just about everything that you could do in Mailman
  2.1 *except* for topics and sibling/umbrella lists.

Core
----
* Added support for Python 3.5 and 3.6
* MySQL is now an officially supported database
* Many improvements with importing Mailman 2.1 lists
* DMARC mitigations have been added, based on, but different than the same
  feature in Mailman 2.1
* The REST API requires HTTP/1.1
* A new REST API version (3.1) has been added which changes how UUIDs are
  interpreted, fixing the problem for some JavaScript libraries
* Many new REST resources and methods have been added
* Individual mailing lists can augment the system's header matching rules
* `mailman create` now creates missing domains by default
* `mailman digests` now has `--verbose` and `--dry-run` options
* `mailman shell` now supports readline history
* `mailman members` can filter members based on their subscription roles
* A new template system has been added for all messages originating from
  inside Mailman.
* The Message-ID-Hash header replaces X-Message-ID-Hash
* New placeholders have been added for headers and footers
* Unsubscriptions can now be confirmed and/or moderated

Postorius/HyperKitty
--------------------
* General U/I and U/X improvements
* Many more features from the Core's have been plumbed through
* We've adopted Django social auth logins and dropped Persona (since it's no
  longer supported upstream).  You can now log in via Facebook, Google,
  GitHub, and GitLab.

Backward incompatibilities
--------------------------
* Core/REST: Held message resources now have an `original_subject` key that is
  not RFC 2047 decoded.  `subject` is now RFC 2047 decoded.
* Core/REST: If you've run pre-release versions from git head, and stored
  welcome and goodbye templates via REST, the template key names have changed
  backward incompatibility.
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From zarko.dudic at oracle.com  Thu May 25 20:16:52 2017
From: zarko.dudic at oracle.com (Zarko Dudic)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 17:16:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changed password is not delivered
Message-ID: <592773F4.8050504@oracle.com>

Hi, it's mailman 2.1.9-6

I believe it works well, a list member can post, others get messages, etc.
But I just noticed that when admin or moderator password is changed via 
web interface, the same is not sent, actually it never arrives.

I don't see any relevant lines in logs under /var/log/mailman, also exim 
logs have nothing relevant. Appreciate any idea to help troubleshooting.

-- 
Thanks,
Zarko


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 26 03:45:03 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 00:45:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changed password is not delivered
In-Reply-To: <592773F4.8050504@oracle.com>
References: <592773F4.8050504@oracle.com>
Message-ID: <c8ee83bc-c1fa-804c-bba6-947c73fb0133@msapiro.net>

On 05/25/2017 05:16 PM, Zarko Dudic wrote:

> 
> But I just noticed that when admin or moderator password is changed via
> web interface, the same is not sent, actually it never arrives.


It isn't sent because it isn't supposed to be. If you change an admin or
moderator password and there are other admins or moderators, you need to
communicate the new password out of band.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 26 17:29:17 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 14:29:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ANNOUNCE: Mailman 3.1.0 final!
In-Reply-To: <20170525162800.5d2c681b@presto>
References: <20170525162800.5d2c681b@presto>
Message-ID: <56c1dc86-e7f6-7c89-d03d-f2f3e1f3f99b@msapiro.net>

On 05/25/2017 04:28 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> Hello Mailpeople!
> 
> On behalf of the entire team and all our wonderful contributors, I'm happy to
> announce the release of GNU Mailman 3.1 final.  My deep thanks go to all the
> Mailman project sprinters at Pycon 2017 for getting us over the line!


And I am happy to report that the Mailman 3 installations at
<https://mail.python.org/mm3/> and <https://lists.mailman3.org/> are now
happily running this release.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From phils at caerllewys.net  Fri May 26 18:13:59 2017
From: phils at caerllewys.net (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 18:13:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ANNOUNCE: Mailman 3.1.0 final!
In-Reply-To: <56c1dc86-e7f6-7c89-d03d-f2f3e1f3f99b@msapiro.net>
References: <20170525162800.5d2c681b@presto>
 <56c1dc86-e7f6-7c89-d03d-f2f3e1f3f99b@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <d494c4d5-e55a-724f-8a60-2ecca8c38393@caerllewys.net>

On 05/26/17 17:29, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 05/25/2017 04:28 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> Hello Mailpeople!
>>
>> On behalf of the entire team and all our wonderful contributors, I'm happy to
>> announce the release of GNU Mailman 3.1 final.  My deep thanks go to all the
>> Mailman project sprinters at Pycon 2017 for getting us over the line!
> 
> And I am happy to report that the Mailman 3 installations at
> <https://mail.python.org/mm3/> and <https://lists.mailman3.org/> are now
> happily running this release.


Now if only there were a mailman3 ebuild for Gentoo ...


-- 
  Phil Stracchino
  Babylon Communications
  phils at caerllewys.net
  phil at co.ordinate.org
  Landline: +1.603.293.8485
  Mobile:   +1.603.998.6958

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From odhiambo at gmail.com  Sat May 27 04:07:00 2017
From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 11:07:00 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ANNOUNCE: Mailman 3.1.0 final!
In-Reply-To: <d494c4d5-e55a-724f-8a60-2ecca8c38393@caerllewys.net>
References: <20170525162800.5d2c681b@presto>
 <56c1dc86-e7f6-7c89-d03d-f2f3e1f3f99b@msapiro.net>
 <d494c4d5-e55a-724f-8a60-2ecca8c38393@caerllewys.net>
Message-ID: <CAAdA2WMuYLs9M7pOK5kLc+OSbp5huF1SUDPtfTBb60DhLjWFQQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 27 May 2017 at 01:13, Phil Stracchino <phils at caerllewys.net> wrote:

> On 05/26/17 17:29, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > On 05/25/2017 04:28 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> >> Hello Mailpeople!
> >>
> >> On behalf of the entire team and all our wonderful contributors, I'm
> happy to
> >> announce the release of GNU Mailman 3.1 final.  My deep thanks go to
> all the
> >> Mailman project sprinters at Pycon 2017 for getting us over the line!
> >
> > And I am happy to report that the Mailman 3 installations at
> > <https://mail.python.org/mm3/> and <https://lists.mailman3.org/> are now
> > happily running this release.
>
>
> Now if only there were a mailman3 ebuild for Gentoo ...
>
>
> --
>   Phil Stracchino
>   Babylon Communications
>   phils at caerllewys.net
>   phil at co.ordinate.org
>   Landline: +1.603.293.8485
>   Mobile:   +1.603.998.6958
>
>

It's not you alone crying. There are no ports for FreeBSD too. In fact, I
have not been able to find a way to run MM3 on FreeBSD which is as easy as
I can do with MM2.1 so, not being knowledgeable with packaging, I am stuck
with MM2.1 till kingdom come :)




-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft."

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 27 11:35:30 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 08:35:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ANNOUNCE: Mailman 3.1.0 final!
In-Reply-To: <CAAdA2WMuYLs9M7pOK5kLc+OSbp5huF1SUDPtfTBb60DhLjWFQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20170525162800.5d2c681b@presto>
 <56c1dc86-e7f6-7c89-d03d-f2f3e1f3f99b@msapiro.net>
 <d494c4d5-e55a-724f-8a60-2ecca8c38393@caerllewys.net>
 <CAAdA2WMuYLs9M7pOK5kLc+OSbp5huF1SUDPtfTBb60DhLjWFQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ae69e6c7-4369-f816-9fad-9b6677421e11@msapiro.net>

On 05/27/2017 01:07 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> On 27 May 2017 at 01:13, Phil Stracchino <phils at caerllewys.net> wrote:
>>
>> Now if only there were a mailman3 ebuild for Gentoo ...
...
> 
> It's not you alone crying. There are no ports for FreeBSD too. In fact, I
> have not been able to find a way to run MM3 on FreeBSD which is as easy as
> I can do with MM2.1 so, not being knowledgeable with packaging, I am stuck
> with MM2.1 till kingdom come :)


We are working on packaging and 2.1 -> 3 migration, and it will come. We
should have a Docker container ready soon if that will help.

If anyone is interested in helping with packaging for specific distros,
we would love to have your help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From barry at list.org  Sat May 27 12:07:13 2017
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 09:07:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ANNOUNCE: Mailman 3.1.0 final!
In-Reply-To: <ae69e6c7-4369-f816-9fad-9b6677421e11@msapiro.net>
References: <20170525162800.5d2c681b@presto>
 <56c1dc86-e7f6-7c89-d03d-f2f3e1f3f99b@msapiro.net>
 <d494c4d5-e55a-724f-8a60-2ecca8c38393@caerllewys.net>
 <CAAdA2WMuYLs9M7pOK5kLc+OSbp5huF1SUDPtfTBb60DhLjWFQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <ae69e6c7-4369-f816-9fad-9b6677421e11@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20170527090713.69130d00@presto>

On May 27, 2017, at 08:35 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>If anyone is interested in helping with packaging for specific distros,
>we would love to have your help.

There was some early work on Debian packaging, which was put on hold until 3.1
was released.  Now that Stretch's release has also been announced, I think
we'll see Debian packages soon.

-Barry

From phils at caerllewys.net  Sat May 27 12:34:44 2017
From: phils at caerllewys.net (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 12:34:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ANNOUNCE: Mailman 3.1.0 final!
In-Reply-To: <ae69e6c7-4369-f816-9fad-9b6677421e11@msapiro.net>
References: <20170525162800.5d2c681b@presto>
 <56c1dc86-e7f6-7c89-d03d-f2f3e1f3f99b@msapiro.net>
 <d494c4d5-e55a-724f-8a60-2ecca8c38393@caerllewys.net>
 <CAAdA2WMuYLs9M7pOK5kLc+OSbp5huF1SUDPtfTBb60DhLjWFQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <ae69e6c7-4369-f816-9fad-9b6677421e11@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <9e69b617-f516-4217-68a2-eb7ff2021101@caerllewys.net>

On 05/27/17 11:35, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 05/27/2017 01:07 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
>> On 27 May 2017 at 01:13, Phil Stracchino <phils at caerllewys.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Now if only there were a mailman3 ebuild for Gentoo ...
>>
>> It's not you alone crying. There are no ports for FreeBSD too. In fact, I
>> have not been able to find a way to run MM3 on FreeBSD which is as easy as
>> I can do with MM2.1 so, not being knowledgeable with packaging, I am stuck
>> with MM2.1 till kingdom come :)
> 
> We are working on packaging and 2.1 -> 3 migration, and it will come. We
> should have a Docker container ready soon if that will help.
> 
> If anyone is interested in helping with packaging for specific distros,
> we would love to have your help.


I was actually giving some thought to putting together a Gentoo ebuild,
but I operate only an unofficial overlay.  I'm sure an official ebuild
would be better.


-- 
  Phil Stracchino
  Babylon Communications
  phils at caerllewys.net
  phil at co.ordinate.org
  Landline: +1.603.293.8485
  Mobile:   +1.603.998.6958

From tran at isoc.org  Fri May 26 10:32:29 2017
From: tran at isoc.org (Dang Tran)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 14:32:29 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Add spam filter regex rule via command line
Message-ID: <9AABAFA7-5EC9-4644-AFF7-36F0377D8C66@isoc.org>

Hi -

I?d like to add a spam filter rule:

X-Spam-Status: Yes

Action:  hold

If I have 5-10 lists, I can goto list admin page and add this manually.  However if I have 500 lists (not saying I do), it would be impractical to perform this manually.

Please could someone help me with a script to iterate through all my list and add this settings?

Thanks,
Dang

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 28 14:38:00 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 11:38:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Add spam filter regex rule via command line
In-Reply-To: <9AABAFA7-5EC9-4644-AFF7-36F0377D8C66@isoc.org>
References: <9AABAFA7-5EC9-4644-AFF7-36F0377D8C66@isoc.org>
Message-ID: <856bba78-2427-efda-5fa4-fc5c75c2d785@msapiro.net>

On 05/26/2017 07:32 AM, Dang Tran wrote:
> 
> I?d like to add a spam filter rule:
> 
> X-Spam-Status: Yes
> 
> Action:  hold
> 
> If I have 5-10 lists, I can goto list admin page and add this manually.  However if I have 500 lists (not saying I do), it would be impractical to perform this manually.
> 
> Please could someone help me with a script to iterate through all my list and add this settings?


You can use Mailman's bin/config_list for this. Do do this, you would
first make a file with contents like

header_filter_rules = [(u'X-Spam-Status: Yes', 7, False)]

The rules are a list of tuples of the form (regexp, action, flag) where
regexp is the regular expression(s) as a unicode string, action is a
dumber as defined in Defaults.py and flag is always False. There can be
more than one regexp in the string separated by new-lines, e.g.
u'X-Spam-Status: Yes\nsecond regexp'. The actions are defined as

# Actions
DEFER = 0
APPROVE = 1
REJECT = 2
DISCARD = 3
SUBSCRIBE = 4
UNSUBSCRIBE = 5
ACCEPT = 6
HOLD = 7

APPROVE, SUBSCRIBE and UNSUBSCRIBE aren't relevant here. The flag is
used by the web UI and is only True for a just inserted empty rule.

You could then run

#!/bin/bash
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare; do
  bin/config_list -i path/to/file $list;
done

This will only work if you want to set header_filter_rules to a
particular rule or list of rules. If you want to append your rule to
possibly existing header_filter_rules you could use a withlist script
something like

import mm_cfg
def add_rule(mlist):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    mlist.header_filter_rules.append((u'X-Spam-Status: Yes', 7, False))
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()

and save that in Mailman's bin directory as add_rule.py and run

bin/withlist -a -r add_rule

to append the rule to header_filter_rules for all lists. To insert the
rule as the first rule, you would change

    ...append((u'X-Spam-Status: Yes', 7, False))

to

    ...insert(0, (u'X-Spam-Status: Yes', 7, False))

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Brett at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca  Tue May 30 22:34:48 2017
From: Brett at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca (Brett Delmage)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 22:34:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authenticated Received Chain in Mailman?
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1705302228340.9845@pannier.local>

Will Mailman 2 or 3 be incorporating Authenticated Received Chain (ARC) 
http://arc-spec.org/ ?

I was unaware of this until today, when I saw ARC headers in my gmail test 
account when I was testing a Mailman server migration.

"If you are a mailbox provider or intermediary (mailing list operator, 
message forwarder), you should be planning your ARC implementation now 
(March 2017). AOL and GMail already validate ARC headers, and more mailbox 
providers will come online with ARC in the second half 2017.

Patches for the most popular mailing list managers (MLMs) will be 
available starting in March 2017..."

Brett


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 30 23:05:56 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 20:05:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authenticated Received Chain in Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1705302228340.9845@pannier.local>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1705302228340.9845@pannier.local>
Message-ID: <e5e006db-cd1a-8892-e2c9-087c6e288b70@msapiro.net>

On 05/30/2017 07:34 PM, Brett Delmage wrote:
> Will Mailman 2 or 3 be incorporating Authenticated Received Chain (ARC)
> http://arc-spec.org/ ?


Steve will probably have more to say on this, but we had a GSOC project
last year on this and there is a Mailman 3 branch at
<https://gitlab.com/adityadivekar/mailman/tree/arc> that is a work in
progress on ARC.

There are no plans to incorporate ARC in Mailman 2.1.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Wed May 31 04:36:59 2017
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 04:36:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
Message-ID: <ff51321a-ed55-8f4b-18a7-8398af8ea502@panix.com>

I changed my aliases to something like this

# STANZA START: hangout
# CREATED: Sat Apr 15 12:09:33 2017
hangout:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post hangout"
hangout-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin hangout"
hangout-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces hangout"
hangout-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm hangout"
hangout-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join hangout"
hangout-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave hangout"
hangout-leavemealone:    "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner hangout"
hangout-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request hangout"
hangout-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe hangout"
hangout-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe hangout"


But I'm not getting bounce processing that I expect.  I lot of hard
bounces are not being caught.  I set bounce level to 3

These are hard bounces:

017-05-31T04:32:04.046301-04:00 www postfix/smtpd[27051]: disconnect
from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]
2017-05-31T04:32:04.103090-04:00 www postfix/smtpd[27051]: connect from
www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]
2017-05-31T04:32:04.115831-04:00 www postfix/smtpd[27051]: NOQUEUE:
reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450 4.1.2
<ksnyder at stclair.k12>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found;
from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com> to=<ksnyder at stclair.k12> proto=ESMTP
helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2017-05-31T04:32:04.122202-04:00 www postfix/smtpd[27051]: NOQUEUE:
reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450 4.1.2
<matt at ele.uri>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found;
from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com> to=<matt at ele.uri> proto=ESMTP
helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2017-05-31T04:32:04.136322-04:00 www postfix/smtpd[27051]: NOQUEUE:
reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450 4.1.2
<lai at council.nyc>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found;
from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com> to=<lai at council.nyc> proto=ESMTP
helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2017-05-31T04:32:04.144350-04:00 www postfix/smtpd[27051]: NOQUEUE:
reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450 4.1.2
<sbrown at emoglen.law>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found;
from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com> to=<sbrown at emoglen.law> proto=ESMTP
helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2017-05-31T04:32:04.153628-04:00 www postfix/smtpd[27051]: NOQUEUE:
reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450 4.1.2
<mbmiller at taxa.epi>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found;
from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com> to=<mbmiller at taxa.epi> proto=ESMTP
helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>


-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 31 10:32:57 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 07:32:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <ff51321a-ed55-8f4b-18a7-8398af8ea502@panix.com>
References: <ff51321a-ed55-8f4b-18a7-8398af8ea502@panix.com>
Message-ID: <b0d61914-c325-7c21-30e5-6a072f3a65de@msapiro.net>

On 05/31/2017 01:36 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> I changed my aliases to something like this
> 
> # STANZA START: hangout
> # CREATED: Sat Apr 15 12:09:33 2017
...
> hangout-leavemealone:    "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner hangout"


If you don't have a deliverable hangout-owner alias you will receive few
if any notifications from Mailman as they are typically sent to the
hangout-owner address in the expectation that that address will relay to
the owners/moderators.


...
> But I'm not getting bounce processing that I expect.  I lot of hard
> bounces are not being caught.  I set bounce level to 3
> 
> These are hard bounces:
...


Is bounce processing not working or do you just think it's not working
because you aren't receiving notices? What's in Mailman's bounce log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Wed May 31 10:42:32 2017
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 10:42:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <b0d61914-c325-7c21-30e5-6a072f3a65de@msapiro.net>
References: <ff51321a-ed55-8f4b-18a7-8398af8ea502@panix.com>
 <b0d61914-c325-7c21-30e5-6a072f3a65de@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <ff4e434e-68c2-6b1e-ae14-a7f04b010d64@panix.com>

On 05/31/2017 10:32 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> ...
>> But I'm not getting bounce processing that I expect.  I lot of hard
>> bounces are not being caught.  I set bounce level to 3
>>
>> These are hard bounces:
> ...
> 
> 
> Is bounce processing not working or do you just think it's not working
> because you aren't receiving notices? What's in Mailman's bounce log?


I thought that it would unsubscribe the dead email addresses without
needing my notifications


-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 31 10:56:25 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 07:56:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <ff4e434e-68c2-6b1e-ae14-a7f04b010d64@panix.com>
References: <ff51321a-ed55-8f4b-18a7-8398af8ea502@panix.com>
 <b0d61914-c325-7c21-30e5-6a072f3a65de@msapiro.net>
 <ff4e434e-68c2-6b1e-ae14-a7f04b010d64@panix.com>
Message-ID: <9582a3bf-d043-80d0-bfd7-9befade04cb0@msapiro.net>

On 05/31/2017 07:42 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> 
> I thought that it would unsubscribe the dead email addresses without
> needing my notifications


It will eventually. There are several things going on. Your original
post showed bounces all from 5/31. Bounce processing only increments the
score once per day. Subsequent bounces in the same day are logged but
not counted.

When a users bounce score reaches threshold, the users delivery is
disabled by bounce and the user is sent the first notice, but the user
is not unsubscribed until after bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings have
been sent at intervals of bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval. The
sending of subsequent notices and ultimate removal also depend on
Mailman's cron/disabled being run.

What's in Mailman's bounce log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From barry at list.org  Wed May 31 11:13:28 2017
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 11:13:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authenticated Received Chain in Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <e5e006db-cd1a-8892-e2c9-087c6e288b70@msapiro.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1705302228340.9845@pannier.local>
 <e5e006db-cd1a-8892-e2c9-087c6e288b70@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20170531111328.7cee5a52@subdivisions.wooz.org>

On May 30, 2017, at 08:05 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Steve will probably have more to say on this, but we had a GSOC project last
>year on this and there is a Mailman 3 branch at
><https://gitlab.com/adityadivekar/mailman/tree/arc> that is a work in
>progress on ARC.

Steve did briefly mention at Pycon that ARC was getting turned on at various
large providers.  I'd like to target ARC support for Mailman 3.2.

-Barry

From zarko.dudic at oracle.com  Wed May 31 13:27:24 2017
From: zarko.dudic at oracle.com (Zarko Dudic)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 10:27:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Uncaught bounce notification
In-Reply-To: <mailman.423.1496238512.14345.el-errata@oss.oracle.com>
References: <mailman.423.1496238512.14345.el-errata@oss.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <592EFCFC.4020405@oracle.com>


Hi, once there is the legit posting to the list (mailman 2.1), the list 
owner receives email with Subject "Uncaught bounce notification".
I recall reading somewhere that I can send message here so mailman 
recognizer can be updated, so here is what is received:


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	Uncaught bounce notification
Date: 	Wed, 31 May 2017 06:48:32 -0700
From: 	mailman-bounces at oss.oracle.com
To: 	el-errata-owner at oss.oracle.com



The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send all
unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).

For more information see:
https://oss.oracle.com/mailman/admin/el-errata/bounce



-- 
Thanks,
Zarko




From zarko.dudic at oracle.com  Wed May 31 13:33:54 2017
From: zarko.dudic at oracle.com (zd)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 10:33:54 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Uncaught bounce notification
In-Reply-To: <592EFCFC.4020405@oracle.com>
References: <592EFCFC.4020405@oracle.com>
Message-ID: <1496252034826-46465.post@n7.nabble.com>

Seems the attachment is missing, so here it is:

Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (/156.151.31.71)
	by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0)
	with ESMTP ; Tue, 30 May 2017 23:58:17 -0700
Received: from oss.oracle.com (oss-old-reserved.oracle.com [137.254.22.2])
	by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v4V6wGSQ029267
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO)
	for <zarko.dudic at oracle.com>; Wed, 31 May 2017 06:58:16 GMT
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lb-oss.oracle.com)
	by oss.oracle.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63)
	(envelope-from <mailman-bounces at oss.oracle.com>)
	id 1dFxaC-0004SH-Hy
	for admin at oss.oracle.com; Tue, 30 May 2017 23:58:16 -0700
Subject: Uncaught bounce notification
From: mailman-bounces at oss.oracle.com
To: el-errata-owner at oss.oracle.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="===============7644504290353639301=="
Message-ID: <mailman.418.1496213895.14345.el-errata at oss.oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 23:58:15 -0700
Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: el-errata at oss.oracle.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
List-Id: Errata Announcements for Oracle Linux <el-errata.oss.oracle.com>
X-List-Administrivia: yes
Sender: mailman-bounces at oss.oracle.com
Errors-To: mailman-bounces at oss.oracle.com

--===============7644504290353639301==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send all
unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).

For more information see:
https://oss.oracle.com/mailman/admin/el-errata/bounce


--===============7644504290353639301==
Content-Type: message/rfc822
MIME-Version: 1.0

Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233])
	by oss.oracle.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) id 1dFxaA-0004S9-Qh
	for el-errata-bounces at oss.oracle.com; Tue, 30 May 2017 23:58:14 -0700
Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72])
	by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v4V6wEkl027885
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK)
	for <el-errata-bounces at oss.oracle.com>; Wed, 31 May 2017 06:58:14 GMT
Received: from abhmp0012.oracle.com (abhmp0012.oracle.com [141.146.116.18])
	by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v4V6wE8u026710
	for <el-errata-bounces at oss.oracle.com>; Wed, 31 May 2017 06:58:14 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <0aa9949c-d440-4d79-aacc-fa42aa56c4cf at default>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 23:58:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: <mailer-daemon at oracle.com>
To: Errata Announcements for Oracle Linux <el-errata at oss.oracle.com>
Subject: Delivery Notification
X-Priority: 3
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="__1496213893893132371abhmp0012.oracle.com"

--__1496213893893132371abhmp0012.oracle.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
--__1496213893893132371abhmp0012.oracle.com
Content-Type: message/delivery-status


--__1496213893893132371abhmp0012.oracle.com
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (/156.151.31.71) by default (Oracle
	Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 30 May 2017 23:58:08 -0700
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	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Wed, 31 May 2017 06:58:05 GMT
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lb-oss.oracle.com) by
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	<el-errata-bounces at oss.oracle.com>) id 1dFxZU-0004Ma-B9;
	Tue, 30 May 2017 23:57:32 -0700
Received: from userv0022.oracle.com ([156.151.31.74]) by oss.oracle.com with
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	-0700
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	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256
	verify=OK) for
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Received: from [10.154.158.8] (/10.154.158.8) by default (Oracle Beehive
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ORGANIZATION: Oracle Corporation
USER-AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101
	Thunderbird/52.1.1
Content-Language: en-US
X-BEENTHERE: el-errata at oss.oracle.com
X-MAILMAN-VERSION: 2.1.9
PRECEDENCE: list
LIST-ID: Errata Announcements for Oracle Linux <el-errata.oss.oracle.com>
LIST-UNSUBSCRIBE: <https://oss.oracle.com/mailman/listinfo/el-errata>,
	<mailto:el-errata-request at oss.oracle.com?subject=unsubscribe>
LIST-ARCHIVE: <http://oss.oracle.com/pipermail/el-errata>
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	<mailto:el-errata-request at oss.oracle.com?subject=subscribe>
ERRORS-TO: el-errata-bounces at oss.oracle.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <34dd34c9-9594-e9f4-27b9-5bd2bdc90551 at oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 23:58:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Errata Announcements for Oracle Linux <el-errata at oss.oracle.com>
Sender: el-errata-bounces at oss.oracle.com
To: el-errata at oss.oracle.com
Subject: [El-errata] ELBA-2017-1373 Oracle Linux 6 initscripts bug fix
update
Reply-To: el-errata at oss.oracle.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Oracle Linux Bug Fix Advisory ELBA-2017-1373

http://linux.oracle.com/errata/ELBA-2017-1373.html

The following updated rpms for Oracle Linux 6 have been uploaded to the 
Unbreakable Linux Network:

i386:
debugmode-9.03.58-1.0.1.el6_9.1.i686.rpm
initscripts-9.03.58-1.0.1.el6_9.1.i686.rpm

x86_64:
debugmode-9.03.58-1.0.1.el6_9.1.x86_64.rpm
initscripts-9.03.58-1.0.1.el6_9.1.x86_64.rpm


SRPMS:
http://oss.oracle.com/ol6/SRPMS-updates/initscripts-9.03.58-1.0.1.el6_9.1.src.rpm



Description of changes:

[ 9.03.58-1.0.1]
- initscripts: don't mount ocfs2 volume from /etc/fstab [Orabug: 25562321]
- ifup: fix failed to bring up alias interface [Orabug 24718622]
- Do not stop network service if there is an iscsi connections [Orabug 
22735044]
- Adding correct bug numbers for patches in the previous tag. 
(ashish.samant at oracle.com)
- Add check before calling install bonding driver [ Orabug 19897588 ] 
(ashish.samant at oracle.com)
- Improve check for bond master in install bonding driver [ Orabug 
18635119 ] (ashish.samant at oracle.com)
- Add check before calling install bonding driver [ Orabug 18906188 ] 
(ashish.samant at oracle.com)
- Set net.rds.ib.trigger_active_bonding on start (mukesh.kacker at oracle.com)
   after vlan interfaces brought up [ Orabug 19582525 ] 
(mukesh.kacker at oracle.com)
- Set net.rds.ib.active_bonding on service start and stop 
(mukesh.kacker at oracle.com)
- set-rds-ib-active_bonding.patch (mukesh.kacker at oracle.com) [ Orabug 
19368427, Basebug 18492380 ]
- Do not do rename related check if interface is vlan, bond or bridge.
   (John Haxby, Joe Jin) [17937709]
- require /etc/oracle-release and oracle-logos [10211998]
- add initscripts-oracle-enterprise.patch
- ifdown: clean ipv4 localhost addresses
- ifup-wireless: fix calling of phy_wireless_device
- rc.sysinit: apply quotas after system is relabeled

[9.03.58-1.el6_9.1]
- regression in commit a2ecd685d60 fixed [start $vpninterfaces]


_______________________________________________
El-errata mailing list
El-errata at oss.oracle.com
https://oss.oracle.com/mailman/listinfo/el-errata

--__1496213893893132371abhmp0012.oracle.com--


--===============7644504290353639301==--




--
View this message in context: http://mailman.9.n7.nabble.com/Fwd-Uncaught-bounce-notification-tp46464p46465.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 31 21:25:18 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 18:25:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Uncaught bounce notification
In-Reply-To: <1496252034826-46465.post@n7.nabble.com>
References: <592EFCFC.4020405@oracle.com>
 <1496252034826-46465.post@n7.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <9294fc0a-8176-5bb3-b58f-2cf6baadde79@msapiro.net>

On 05/31/2017 10:33 AM, zd wrote:
> Seems the attachment is missing, so here it is:


Thank you for the report. Unfortunately, this bounce is unrecognized
because it is missing critical information.


...
> Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
> 	boundary="__1496213893893132371abhmp0012.oracle.com"
> 
> --__1496213893893132371abhmp0012.oracle.com
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
> --__1496213893893132371abhmp0012.oracle.com
> Content-Type: message/delivery-status
> 
> 
> --__1496213893893132371abhmp0012.oracle.com
> Content-Type: message/rfc822
> 
...

This is a correctly formatted RFC 3464 Delivery status notification
except information is missing. In particular, the first text/plain part
according to RFC 3462 is

   1) [Required] The first body part contains human readable message.
   The purpose of this message is to provide an easily understood
   description of the condition(s) that caused the report to be
   generated, for a human reader who may not have a user agent capable
   of interpreting the second section of the Multipart/Report.

Clearly the text
"This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification." does
not satisfy this requirement.

The second message/delivery-status part is

   (2) [Required] A machine parsable body part containing an account of
   the reported message handling event. The purpose of this body part is
   to provide a machine-readable description of the condition(s) that
   caused the report to be generated, along with details not present in
   the first body part that may be useful to human experts.  An initial
   body part, Message/delivery-status is defined in [RFC 3464].

This part is what we look at and we are looking for fields like
Original-Recipient:, Final-Recipient: and Action:. These fields and
others should be there, but this part is empty in this message.

Either the MTA that sent it is broken or some content filter removed
that information before it got to Mailman. Whatever the reason. there is
no information in this report to identify the address that bounced or
the reason for the bounce so we can't possibly recognize it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan