From anotheranne at fables.co.za  Thu Feb  2 15:21:08 2017
From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 22:21:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot get local connection to an openbsd 6.0
 install
In-Reply-To: <6224e8ba-1ae3-6c01-2eb2-f89cbbf3c3e8@att.net>
References: <auto-000075928119@mailfront1.g2host.com>
 <6224e8ba-1ae3-6c01-2eb2-f89cbbf3c3e8@att.net>
Message-ID: <20170202202108.GA30621@fables.co.za>

Hi,

I am building an openbsd 6.0 server utilising their httpd http server.

I am trying to connect locally but get a 500 Internal Server Error. Thus
I am connecting and thus have the correct path in httpd.conf I also
believe I have other details correct in httpd.conf (location, fastcgi,
root) and slowcgi is running. However and whatever I cannot get a
mailman page.

I can access a static index.html fine, no issue.

I suspect some type of permissions problem but can't really say that I
have narrowed it down to that.

I have put individual links to the /usr/local/lib/mailman/bin scripts in
/var/www/mailman to get started with

down at the /usr/ end perms are rwxr-sr-x and owned by mailman
up at the /var/www/ end perms are rwxr-sr-w and owned by root

If any one has any experience in the openbsd setup (and I am staying
with the chrooted httpd setup) then I'd be grateful for any pointers.

Else I have found an online reference to running same but not chrooted.
Since I open my pages for subscription online I am not keen to follow
this. But I might just to see it work. 

anotheranne


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  2 20:33:31 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 17:33:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot get local connection to an openbsd 6.0
 install
In-Reply-To: <20170202202108.GA30621@fables.co.za>
References: <auto-000075928119@mailfront1.g2host.com>
 <6224e8ba-1ae3-6c01-2eb2-f89cbbf3c3e8@att.net>
 <20170202202108.GA30621@fables.co.za>
Message-ID: <c38dda7f-5dfa-3459-1fdb-ee4e8dcaaf37@msapiro.net>

On 02/02/2017 12:21 PM, Anne Wainwright wrote:
> 
> I am building an openbsd 6.0 server utilising their httpd http server.
> 
> I am trying to connect locally but get a 500 Internal Server Error. Thus
> I am connecting and thus have the correct path in httpd.conf I also
> believe I have other details correct in httpd.conf (location, fastcgi,
> root) and slowcgi is running. However and whatever I cannot get a
> mailman page.


Are there any log messages from the server saying what exception or
whatever is happening in the CGI script.

This might be something as simple as a group mismatch error in Mailman's
CGI wrappers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From terry at fiteyes.com  Fri Feb  3 12:52:59 2017
From: terry at fiteyes.com (Terry Earley)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:52:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Comcast on Android phones
Message-ID: <CAL3ZyvD3yNkSd8YdV5cVunS+kzmMhtVfvmc9sR=WxKCnjefaiA@mail.gmail.com>

We had a Comcast email user report that when he replies to posts using his
Android smartphone, the reply (direct and "reply all") goes directly to the
original, individual poster and not to the mailman group email address.

I then confirmed this behavior using my own Android phone using the comcast
email app, "Xfinity Connect". When replying with an iPhone using Xfinity
Connect, however, the reply went to the group email address as it should.

For replies with an Android phone using a gmail account, the messages is
directed to the group email address.

It seems to be a Comcast/Xfinity on Android issue. Anyone else see the same?

We are using Mailman 2.1.14 and have "Full Personalization" set.

Terry Earley, FitEyes

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  3 14:55:18 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 11:55:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Comcast on Android phones
In-Reply-To: <CAL3ZyvD3yNkSd8YdV5cVunS+kzmMhtVfvmc9sR=WxKCnjefaiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL3ZyvD3yNkSd8YdV5cVunS+kzmMhtVfvmc9sR=WxKCnjefaiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60a735e7-4095-7964-0fd3-5cbde62c1461@msapiro.net>

On 02/03/2017 09:52 AM, Terry Earley wrote:
> We had a Comcast email user report that when he replies to posts using his
> Android smartphone, the reply (direct and "reply all") goes directly to the
> original, individual poster and not to the mailman group email address.


So you presumably have reply_goes_to_list = This list. That puts the
list address in Reply-To:, and it seems the Comcast Android mail app
doesn't properly handle that.

I use K9 Mail
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fsck.k9> on my
Android phone. I recommend it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From anotheranne at fables.co.za  Sat Feb  4 14:18:34 2017
From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 21:18:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot get local connection to an openbsd
	6.0	install
In-Reply-To: <c38dda7f-5dfa-3459-1fdb-ee4e8dcaaf37@msapiro.net>
References: <auto-000075928119@mailfront1.g2host.com>
 <6224e8ba-1ae3-6c01-2eb2-f89cbbf3c3e8@att.net>
 <20170202202108.GA30621@fables.co.za>
 <c38dda7f-5dfa-3459-1fdb-ee4e8dcaaf37@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20170204191834.GA31878@fables.co.za>

On Thu, Feb 02, 2017 at 05:33:31PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 02/02/2017 12:21 PM, Anne Wainwright wrote:

Thanks for prompt reply Mark
Sorry for hijacking someone else's thread ...

> > 
> > I am building an openbsd 6.0 server utilising their httpd http server.
> > 
> > I am trying to connect locally but get a 500 Internal Server Error. Thus
> > I am connecting and thus have the correct path in httpd.conf I also
> > believe I have other details correct in httpd.conf (location, fastcgi,
> > root) and slowcgi is running. However and whatever I cannot get a
> > mailman page.
> 
> 
> Are there any log messages from the server saying what exception or
> whatever is happening in the CGI script.

There was, so I am now tailing log files
> 
> This might be something as simple as a group mismatch error in Mailman's
> CGI wrappers.
/var/log/maillog showed:

Mailman cgi-wrapper (admin): Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the
CGI wrapper script to be executed by a member of the "_mailmanq" group

I changed the links owner/group to _mailman / _mailmanq

the message above has disappeared, but slowcgi complains that :

execve //mailman is a directory

(slowcgi is fastcgi to cgi wrapper server, and adjunct to openbsd's
httpd)

... but I still get the 500 Internal Server Error

If no obvious candidate for inspection, maybe I should reinstall the
Mailman package and start afresh :(

Anne



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb  4 14:50:05 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 11:50:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot get local connection to an openbsd 6.0
 install
In-Reply-To: <20170204191834.GA31878@fables.co.za>
References: <auto-000075928119@mailfront1.g2host.com>
 <6224e8ba-1ae3-6c01-2eb2-f89cbbf3c3e8@att.net>
 <20170202202108.GA30621@fables.co.za>
 <c38dda7f-5dfa-3459-1fdb-ee4e8dcaaf37@msapiro.net>
 <20170204191834.GA31878@fables.co.za>
Message-ID: <cde7d31e-b262-b76e-0ac5-2a4dfe0fc2ee@msapiro.net>

On 02/04/2017 11:18 AM, Anne Wainwright wrote:

> /var/log/maillog showed:
> 
> Mailman cgi-wrapper (admin): Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the
> CGI wrapper script to be executed by a member of the "_mailmanq" group
> 
> I changed the links owner/group to _mailman / _mailmanq


Very strange. I would expect any group mismatch error reported in
/var/log/maillog to be a mail wrapper error associated with mail
delivery to Mailman, not a cgi-wrapper error.


> the message above has disappeared, but slowcgi complains that :
> 
> execve //mailman is a directory
> 
> (slowcgi is fastcgi to cgi wrapper server, and adjunct to openbsd's
> httpd)


I'm only guessing because I know nothing of openbsd's httpd server or
slowcgi, but his looks like something is misconfigured and a visit to,
e.g., http://example.com/mailman/xxx/... is trying to execute 'mailman'
as a CGI instead of 'mailman/cgi-bin/xxx'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Tue Feb  7 17:04:29 2017
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 17:04:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages discarded after approval
Message-ID: <CABTRqU799yBeBhHbO=A00AfV_RgrZW+4GC1u1J+h6tS6sZ+37g@mail.gmail.com>

One of my moderators said he had messages from a particular poster
disappear after approval, and never appear on the list.

Here are some lines from the vette log that seem to show exactly what he
reports (I've anonymized the sender address, but it matches the poster he
mentioned). What's going on here? It looks like the messages came in, were
approved a few days later, then discarded one second after approval. Am I
reading it right? If so, what would have caused this?

Jan 31 15:16:11 2017 (11509) consdistlist post from xxxx at yyyy.edu held,
message-id=<
MWHPR04MB0703EB5C6192DE93482E4AAEFF4A0 at MWHPR04MB0703.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>:
Post to moderated list
Feb 02 16:29:37 2017 (11855) consdistlist: held message approved,
message-id: <
MWHPR04MB0703EB5C6192DE93482E4AAEFF4A0 at MWHPR04MB0703.namprd04.prod.outlook.com
>
Feb 02 16:29:38 2017 (11509) Message discarded, msgid: <
MWHPR04MB0703EB5C6192DE93482E4AAEFF4A0 at MWHPR04MB0703.namprd04.prod.outlook.com
>'

Feb 03 09:29:18 2017 (11509) consdistlist post from xxxx at yyyy.edu held,
message-id=<
MWHPR04MB0703B22758AFE62336E49BEAFF4F0 at MWHPR04MB0703.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>:
Post to moderated list
Feb 06 17:35:58 2017 (6095) consdistlist: held message approved,
message-id: <
MWHPR04MB0703B22758AFE62336E49BEAFF4F0 at MWHPR04MB0703.namprd04.prod.outlook.com
>
Feb 06 17:35:59 2017 (11509) Message discarded, msgid: <
MWHPR04MB0703B22758AFE62336E49BEAFF4F0 at MWHPR04MB0703.namprd04.prod.outlook.com
>'

I checked and that address is not among the "automatically discard"
addresses in Sender Filters, in case that matters.

Thanks,
Matt

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  7 19:49:08 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 16:49:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages discarded after approval
In-Reply-To: <CABTRqU799yBeBhHbO=A00AfV_RgrZW+4GC1u1J+h6tS6sZ+37g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABTRqU799yBeBhHbO=A00AfV_RgrZW+4GC1u1J+h6tS6sZ+37g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <af678ca3-2d92-db89-d142-b372f5aee552@msapiro.net>

On 02/07/2017 02:04 PM, Matt Morgan wrote:
> 
> Here are some lines from the vette log that seem to show exactly what he
> reports (I've anonymized the sender address, but it matches the poster he
> mentioned). What's going on here? It looks like the messages came in, were
> approved a few days later, then discarded one second after approval. Am I
> reading it right? If so, what would have caused this?


Yes, you're reading it right.


...
> Feb 02 16:29:38 2017 (11509) Message discarded, msgid: <
> MWHPR04MB0703EB5C6192DE93482E4AAEFF4A0 at MWHPR04MB0703.namprd04.prod.outlook.com
>> '


The message was discarded by a handler after it was approved. I think
the only way this can happen is if content filtering removes the entire
message, e.g. an HTML only message to a list that doesn't accept HTML.

Note that in Mailman 2.1.19+ the vette log entry for an auto discard
give the list name and the name of the handler that did the discard.


> I checked and that address is not among the "automatically discard"
> addresses in Sender Filters, in case that matters.


If that were the reason, it would have been discarded without ever being
held.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Tue Feb  7 22:40:50 2017
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 22:40:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages discarded after approval
In-Reply-To: <af678ca3-2d92-db89-d142-b372f5aee552@msapiro.net>
References: <CABTRqU799yBeBhHbO=A00AfV_RgrZW+4GC1u1J+h6tS6sZ+37g@mail.gmail.com>
 <af678ca3-2d92-db89-d142-b372f5aee552@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CABTRqU6whicthiZWBr0xd7v3xjcDd=xmsiSsfOa2DZhbJw+Dow@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 02/07/2017 02:04 PM, Matt Morgan wrote:
> >
> > Here are some lines from the vette log that seem to show exactly what he
> > reports (I've anonymized the sender address, but it matches the poster he
> > mentioned). What's going on here? It looks like the messages came in,
> were
> > approved a few days later, then discarded one second after approval. Am I
> > reading it right? If so, what would have caused this?
>
>
> Yes, you're reading it right.
>
>
> ...
> > Feb 02 16:29:38 2017 (11509) Message discarded, msgid: <
> > MWHPR04MB0703EB5C6192DE93482E4AAEFF4A0 at MWHPR04MB0703.
> namprd04.prod.outlook.com
> >> '
>
>
> The message was discarded by a handler after it was approved. I think
> the only way this can happen is if content filtering removes the entire
> message, e.g. an HTML only message to a list that doesn't accept HTML.
>
> Note that in Mailman 2.1.19+ the vette log entry for an auto discard
> give the list name and the name of the handler that did the discard.
>

"handler:MimeDel" is on the following lines, which my grepping didn't see
at first, so it looks like you nailed it. Thanks as always!

Is there anything to be done at that point other than asking the poster to
resend as text?

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  7 22:52:17 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 19:52:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages discarded after approval
In-Reply-To: <CABTRqU6whicthiZWBr0xd7v3xjcDd=xmsiSsfOa2DZhbJw+Dow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABTRqU799yBeBhHbO=A00AfV_RgrZW+4GC1u1J+h6tS6sZ+37g@mail.gmail.com>
 <af678ca3-2d92-db89-d142-b372f5aee552@msapiro.net>
 <CABTRqU6whicthiZWBr0xd7v3xjcDd=xmsiSsfOa2DZhbJw+Dow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <96d73cf6-11ef-c93d-0727-319001e710e2@msapiro.net>

On 02/07/2017 07:40 PM, Matt Morgan wrote:
> 
> "handler:MimeDel" is on the following lines, which my grepping didn't see
> at first, so it looks like you nailed it. Thanks as always!
> 
> Is there anything to be done at that point other than asking the poster to
> resend as text?


The original message is gone so the poster has to resend.

You could adjust the list's content filtering. If you set both
collapse_alternatives and convert_html_to_plaintext to Yes, you can add
text/html to pass_mime_types. This will not affect plain text only
messages nor will it affect multipart/alternative messages with a
text/plain alternative, but it will accept a text/html message and
convert it to plain text via HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From barco at atservice.co.za  Tue Feb  7 09:53:14 2017
From: barco at atservice.co.za (Barco van Rhijn)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 16:53:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Spam Filters
Message-ID: <a491b600-fe19-d4f3-6995-c60cfea7f84e@atservice.co.za>

I've put together a profanity word list that I'd like to block on our 
mailing lists. I'm attempting to run this through the spam filters in 
Mailman.
Since these phrases are quite toxic to work with I've added a tame 
example. ;-)

*I'm able to block words without an issue. But I'm having problems with 
two things:*

1. *I'm unable to match a phrase only.*
      e.g. "she is mad"

     So far if I enter something like this it will match both words in 
the phrase anywhere in a message.

  *      Hence an innocent user using the a phrase like "she is a
    darling" would also be blocked.
  *      As would someone mentioning the word "mad" in an non derogatory
    way.

/I've tried /*
*

  * \bold fart| (Which seems to best match the entire word without
    matching it in another word)
  * ^\bold fart|
  * old fart|
  * old fart
  * ^old fart

I've tested this at http://pythex.org/ for syntax issues. Pythex shows 
it matching only the phrase.

But once popped into Mailman the spam filter matches any of the words in 
the phrase.
It seems that the issue is related to how Mailman parses this string. It 
seems to lose all the custom regex and search each word individually.

2. *Mailman completely ignores \b switches *

/All of these Filters:/

  * \btest|
  * test|
  * ^test|
  * ^\btest|

/matches: /

  * test
  * tester
  * testing
  * tested

It seems that mailman does not acknowledge the regex I insert and simply 
searches for the phrase anywhere including in words.

*About the pipe on the end of search phrases (I've come across a post 
that says for a pipe is needed if you have lists of words in your spam 
rule)

Does anyone using this feature have advice for me?


Warm Regards

Barco


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  8 11:49:49 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 08:49:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Spam Filters
In-Reply-To: <a491b600-fe19-d4f3-6995-c60cfea7f84e@atservice.co.za>
References: <a491b600-fe19-d4f3-6995-c60cfea7f84e@atservice.co.za>
Message-ID: <cf3605dc-9eba-539a-7907-4b0904e0aa2f@msapiro.net>

On 02/07/2017 06:53 AM, Barco van Rhijn wrote:
> I've put together a profanity word list that I'd like to block on our
> mailing lists. I'm attempting to run this through the spam filters in
> Mailman.
> Since these phrases are quite toxic to work with I've added a tame
> example. ;-)
> 
> *I'm able to block words without an issue. But I'm having problems with
> two things:*
> 
> 1. *I'm unable to match a phrase only.*
>      e.g. "she is mad"
> 
>     So far if I enter something like this it will match both words in
> the phrase anywhere in a message.


Pleas tell us exactly where you are putting these regexps/phrases. Are
you putting them in one of the Privacy options... -> Spam filters
settings or somewhere else?

Also, the Privacy options... -> Spam filters header_filter_rules and
bounce_matching_headers filters only apply to headers - message headers
only in the case of bounce_matching_headers and all message and sub-part
headers in the case of header_filter_rules.

Nothing in standard Mailman applies to message bodies.


> It seems that mailman does not acknowledge the regex I insert and simply
> searches for the phrase anywhere including in words.
> 
> *About the pipe on the end of search phrases (I've come across a post
> that says for a pipe is needed if you have lists of words in your spam
> rule)


This means nothing to me. Where is this post?


> Does anyone using this feature have advice for me?


Please explain in more detail what you are doing. I don't particularly
care about the regexps themselves, but I do want to know what exactly
you are configuring. Then, I can try to help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From barco at atservice.co.za  Wed Feb  8 12:57:49 2017
From: barco at atservice.co.za (Barco van Rhijn)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 19:57:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Spam Filters
In-Reply-To: <cf3605dc-9eba-539a-7907-4b0904e0aa2f@msapiro.net>
References: <a491b600-fe19-d4f3-6995-c60cfea7f84e@atservice.co.za>
 <cf3605dc-9eba-539a-7907-4b0904e0aa2f@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <9c14dc0c-f487-00b8-0822-d977bceb7d69@atservice.co.za>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your reply. I'll try to clarify:

I'm using these regexps/phrases in the

  Privacy options... -> Spam filters page

/Header filters /*Spam Filter Rule 1 *

Spam Filter Regexp:
	She is mad|

**I've used the new rules as opposed to the legacy rules on this page.
And was not specific as to where mailman should look.

To my understanding this includes the message headers, subject and body. Testing proved this to be true. Mailman holds messages with the phrase "mad" in the body or subject line.

What bugs me is that it also matches "madmen" and a partial phrase like "she is".

As referenced in the previous messages whatever regex syntax I put around this phrase seems to get ignored.

I hope this clarifies my question. :)

Warm Regards
Barco


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  8 17:49:09 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 14:49:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Spam Filters
In-Reply-To: <9c14dc0c-f487-00b8-0822-d977bceb7d69@atservice.co.za>
References: <a491b600-fe19-d4f3-6995-c60cfea7f84e@atservice.co.za>
 <cf3605dc-9eba-539a-7907-4b0904e0aa2f@msapiro.net>
 <9c14dc0c-f487-00b8-0822-d977bceb7d69@atservice.co.za>
Message-ID: <14f5a1ac-3add-b46b-979f-89e424a7c163@msapiro.net>

Resending a less detailed reply because I inadvertently originally
replied only to the OP and have deleted that reply.


On 02/08/2017 09:57 AM, Barco van Rhijn wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Thanks for your reply. I'll try to clarify:
> 
> I'm using these regexps/phrases in the
> 
>  Privacy options... -> Spam filters page
> 
> /Header filters /*Spam Filter Rule 1 *
> 
> Spam Filter Regexp:
>     She is mad|


The problem here is the '|'. It is an operator which says match either
the pattern to the left or the pattern to the right. In your case, the
pattern to the right is the null pattern which matches everywhere so
that pattern will always match.


> **I've used the new rules as opposed to the legacy rules on this page.
> And was not specific as to where mailman should look.
> 
> To my understanding this includes the message headers, subject and body.
> Testing proved this to be true. Mailman holds messages with the phrase
> "mad" in the body or subject line.


I don't know how you tested, but the patterns in header_filter_rules are
matched only against message and sub-part headers, not against any body
text.

To match against body text, you need a custom handler. See
<https://wiki.list.org/x/4030615> and the example MyHandler.py script
linked therefrom.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From magill at icloud.com  Thu Feb  9 08:05:25 2017
From: magill at icloud.com (William H. Magill)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2017 08:05:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mac OSX Sierra and Mailman
Message-ID: <945E33DF-CD3B-4918-9BE3-6AEDDBED92AE@icloud.com>

I?m looking for anyone who is using Mailman on OSX Sierra.

The MacPorts installation has no obvious problems. 

The issue, however, is logging. OSX Sierra uses Apples now Unified Logging system, therefore the normal syslog based log files do not exist.

Can anyone tell me how to find Mailman messags in the Unified Log.


T.T.F.N.
William H. Magill
# iMac11,3 Core i7 [2.93GHz - 8 GB 1067MHz] OS X 10.12.3
# Macmini6,1 Intel Core i5 [2.5 Ghz - 4GB 1600MHz] OS X 10.12.3

magill at icloud.com
magill at mac.com
whmagill at gmail.com









From phils at caerllewys.net  Wed Feb  8 14:17:30 2017
From: phils at caerllewys.net (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 14:17:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Spam Filters
In-Reply-To: <a491b600-fe19-d4f3-6995-c60cfea7f84e@atservice.co.za>
References: <a491b600-fe19-d4f3-6995-c60cfea7f84e@atservice.co.za>
Message-ID: <54796c8c-dab5-2b18-135b-2fc949e32d8a@caerllewys.net>

On 02/07/17 09:53, Barco van Rhijn wrote:
> I've put together a profanity word list that I'd like to block on our 
> mailing lists. I'm attempting to run this through the spam filters in 
> Mailman.
> Since these phrases are quite toxic to work with I've added a tame 
> example. ;-)
> 
> *I'm able to block words without an issue. But I'm having problems with 
> two things:*
> 
> 1. *I'm unable to match a phrase only.*
>       e.g. "she is mad"
> 
>      So far if I enter something like this it will match both words in 
> the phrase anywhere in a message.
> 
>   *      Hence an innocent user using the a phrase like "she is a
>     darling" would also be blocked.
>   *      As would someone mentioning the word "mad" in an non derogatory
>     way.

[...]

> Does anyone using this feature have advice for me?


Yes.  In brief, this is a hard, and possibly intractable, problem that
cannot be solved with regexes.  Any attempt to do so will be dependent
upon where you want to draw the line between false positives and false
negatives.  Bayesian filtering has a higher success rate, but is still
not fully reliable, and you will still have to choose where you want to
establish the balance between acceptable false positives and false
negatives.  Further, Mailman has no capability to use Bayesian filters.
(However, you could run incoming mail TO your lists through a Bayesian
filter before forwarding it to Mailman, wioth the same caveats.)

If there were an easy solution to this problem, *everyone*[1] would
already be using it.


Related anecdote:
One of my CS professors in college was once approached by the California
DMV to write them a piece of software that would automatically screen
vanity license plate applications for obscene or vulgar meanings.
"OK," he said.
"Including letter-number substitions."
"OK, that's easy."
"Forward and backward."
"OK."
"Including slang."
"Um, OK ..."
"And in all languages."

This was the point at which he told them that they were smoking crack.
And that, filtering a single "word", was a much simpler problem.


The only way you are reliably going to keep all profanity off your
mailing lists without false positives is manual moderation.  If you can
devise a strong AI to do the moderation, more power to you.  But you
cannot do it without smart natural-language processing.  You cannot do
it with 100% accuracy using regex.  Period.  Like XHTML parsing,[2] it
is not a problem that can be solved with regex.


[1]  Well, maybe everyone except 4chan.
[2]
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags/1732454#1732454

-- 
  Phil Stracchino
  Babylon Communications
  phils at caerllewys.net
  phil at co.ordinate.org
  Landline: 603.293.8485

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  9 10:29:13 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 07:29:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mac OSX Sierra and Mailman
In-Reply-To: <945E33DF-CD3B-4918-9BE3-6AEDDBED92AE@icloud.com>
References: <945E33DF-CD3B-4918-9BE3-6AEDDBED92AE@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1d70b4d3-573f-9f8c-3b34-c39fb69c01dc@msapiro.net>

On 02/09/2017 05:05 AM, William H. Magill wrote:
> I?m looking for anyone who is using Mailman on OSX Sierra.
> 
> The MacPorts installation has no obvious problems. 
> 
> The issue, however, is logging. OSX Sierra uses Apples now Unified Logging system, therefore the normal syslog based log files do not exist.
> 
> Can anyone tell me how to find Mailman messags in the Unified Log.


I'm not sure about the MacPorts Mailman, but in general, Mailman doesn't
use syslog. It writes its logs to it's own logs directiory. Mailman's
log files are named bounce, error, fromusenet, locks, mischief, post,
qrunner, smtp, smtp-failure, subscribe and vette, although some of these
may not exist if they've never been written. Look for files of those
names in Mailman's hierarchy, although some packages put them in
/var/log/mailman or similar.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From c.endemann at fsc.org  Fri Feb 10 05:46:42 2017
From: c.endemann at fsc.org (Christina Endemann)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 10:46:42 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for
 moderation
Message-ID: <88c4ab92771048dd9b1f7fd5afdf0486@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>


Hi all,

I am new here, and I have just taken over the moderation of two mailing lists and have a, let's say, very basic knowledge of mailman.

My problem is, I do not receive notifications when a subscriber sends a message that is held for moderation (e.g. due to the size of the message, number of recipients). Do I need to switch that on somewhere? I have not found a place to do that yet.


Thanks for any help,

Christina

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 10 11:12:51 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 08:12:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for
 moderation
In-Reply-To: <88c4ab92771048dd9b1f7fd5afdf0486@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
References: <88c4ab92771048dd9b1f7fd5afdf0486@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
Message-ID: <1537d971-1d52-ffc1-f857-11509ffee845@msapiro.net>

On 02/10/2017 02:46 AM, Christina Endemann wrote:
> 
> My problem is, I do not receive notifications when a subscriber sends a message that is held for moderation (e.g. due to the size of the message, number of recipients). Do I need to switch that on somewhere? I have not found a place to do that yet.


Do you get the daily summary of messages held?

Look at the list admin General Options page in the Notifications
section. Is admin_immed_notify set to Yes. If not, set it. If so, the
notices might be filtered by you or your ISP as spam - check your
spam/junk/bulk folder.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From adam at agp-llc.com  Fri Feb 10 11:20:04 2017
From: adam at agp-llc.com (Adam Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 16:20:04 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for
 moderation
In-Reply-To: <1537d971-1d52-ffc1-f857-11509ffee845@msapiro.net>
References: <88c4ab92771048dd9b1f7fd5afdf0486@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <1537d971-1d52-ffc1-f857-11509ffee845@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <0100015a28d30e20-1180ba4a-cc13-499e-9e42-053df780fe5f-000000@email.amazonses.com>

You might also check to see that your email address is in the "list administrator email addresses", in the General Options.


Adam Goldberg
AGP, LLC
+1-202-507-9900

-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+adam=agp-llc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 11:13 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for moderation

On 02/10/2017 02:46 AM, Christina Endemann wrote:
> 
> My problem is, I do not receive notifications when a subscriber sends a message that is held for moderation (e.g. due to the size of the message, number of recipients). Do I need to switch that on somewhere? I have not found a place to do that yet.


Do you get the daily summary of messages held?

Look at the list admin General Options page in the Notifications section. Is admin_immed_notify set to Yes. If not, set it. If so, the notices might be filtered by you or your ISP as spam - check your spam/junk/bulk folder.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adam%40agp-llc.com

From lists at damorris.com  Fri Feb 10 20:31:26 2017
From: lists at damorris.com (Adam Morris)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 19:31:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user being bounced from list?
Message-ID: <768953b0-96ca-8833-6199-fd4762835f02@damorris.com>

Hi all,


I have a user who is bounced periodically from one of my lists.

He is on 4 of them but the bounce only happens for one of the lists.

He is bounced because of excessive or fatal bounces.

His inbox wasn't full with only 20 messages in it.


Any ideas on what I can do to fix this?




-- 


Adam Morris
Jaws certified 2016
email:
adam at damorris.com


		


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 10 23:01:09 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 20:01:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user being bounced from list?
In-Reply-To: <768953b0-96ca-8833-6199-fd4762835f02@damorris.com>
References: <768953b0-96ca-8833-6199-fd4762835f02@damorris.com>
Message-ID: <d41dc49a-3db1-b1cd-ccf8-dc90daf138db@msapiro.net>

On 02/10/2017 05:31 PM, Adam Morris wrote:
> 
> I have a user who is bounced periodically from one of my lists.
> 
> He is on 4 of them but the bounce only happens for one of the lists.
...
> Any ideas on what I can do to fix this?


It would help to see the bounce message attached to the subscription
disabled message that you receive if Bounce processing ->
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes, or any of the bounce log entries
from the system mail log if you have access to that.

Absent that information, my best guess is this is a DMARC issue and it
only affects one list because that is the only list of the 4 that has
one or more people posting from domains that publish DMARC p=reject.

See <https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC> AND
<https://wiki.list.org/x/17891458> for more on DMARC.

However, if it is DMARC, it seems unlikely it would affect only one
user, so it may be something else.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From c.endemann at fsc.org  Mon Feb 13 03:11:53 2017
From: c.endemann at fsc.org (Christina Endemann)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 08:11:53 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for
 moderation
In-Reply-To: <0100015a28d30e1b-6a5e3f65-4916-4105-9cfe-8cf941df677c-000000@email.amazonses.com>
References: <88c4ab92771048dd9b1f7fd5afdf0486@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <1537d971-1d52-ffc1-f857-11509ffee845@msapiro.net>
 <0100015a28d30e1b-6a5e3f65-4916-4105-9cfe-8cf941df677c-000000@email.amazonses.com>
Message-ID: <24a80b9fc6844aecbac5f42a68a43978@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>

Good morning all, 

And first of all thanks for the quick answers! 

> Do you get the daily summary of messages held?
No, I don't 

> Look at the list admin General Options page in the Notifications section. Is admin_immed_notify set to Yes. If not, set it. If so, the notices might be filtered by you or your ISP as spam - check your spam/junk/bulk folder.

admin_immed_notify is set to Yes. Nothing in the spam box, neither in the one of my e-mail client nor in the organization's (is that the ISP? Sorry for being ignorant).

> You might also check to see that your email address is in the "list administrator email addresses", in the General Options.
 Yes, it is listed. 

Is there something else I can do about this? 

Kind regards, 

Christina



-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Goldberg [mailto:adam at agp-llc.com] 
Sent: Freitag, 10. Februar 2017 17:20
To: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>; mailman-users at python.org; Christina Endemann <c.endemann at fsc.org>
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for moderation

You might also check to see that your email address is in the "list administrator email addresses", in the General Options.


Adam Goldberg
AGP, LLC
+1-202-507-9900

-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+adam=agp-llc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 11:13 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for moderation

On 02/10/2017 02:46 AM, Christina Endemann wrote:
> 
> My problem is, I do not receive notifications when a subscriber sends a message that is held for moderation (e.g. due to the size of the message, number of recipients). Do I need to switch that on somewhere? I have not found a place to do that yet.


Do you get the daily summary of messages held?

Look at the list admin General Options page in the Notifications section. Is admin_immed_notify set to Yes. If not, set it. If so, the notices might be filtered by you or your ISP as spam - check your spam/junk/bulk folder.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adam%40agp-llc.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 13 03:47:14 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 00:47:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for
 moderation
In-Reply-To: <24a80b9fc6844aecbac5f42a68a43978@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
References: <88c4ab92771048dd9b1f7fd5afdf0486@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <1537d971-1d52-ffc1-f857-11509ffee845@msapiro.net>
 <0100015a28d30e1b-6a5e3f65-4916-4105-9cfe-8cf941df677c-000000@email.amazonses.com>
 <24a80b9fc6844aecbac5f42a68a43978@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
Message-ID: <09318b0e-0b6b-bbbc-dba9-9ec8ee6167b0@msapiro.net>

On 02/13/2017 12:11 AM, Christina Endemann wrote:
> 
> Is there something else I can do about this? 


If you have access to the logs on the Mailman server you should see the
following:

In Mailman's vette log there will be and entry of the form

Timestamp (pid) listname post from user at example.com held,
message-id=<...>: reason

Note the timestamp

in Mailman's smtp log within a few seconds after the vette log timestamp
there will be 3 messages similar to:

Timestamp (pid) <mailman.nn.tttttttttt.pppp.listname at example.com> smtp
to listname for 1 recips, completed in ...

The first of these is the held message notice to the poster assumind the
lists respond_to_post_requests is Yes. Otherwise there will be only the
next ones.

The second is like the first except the nn in mailman.nn.tttttttttt will
be the first nn +1. This is the admin notice sent to the listname-owner
address. The third is like the second except it is the resend from
listname-owner to the owner and moderator addresses and the '1 recips'
will be the total number of owners and moderators.

Then look in the system mail log at the time of these timestamps to see
if these messages were delivered.

Also, whether or not you have access to the logs, try sending an
ordinary email to the listname-owner at ... address and see what happens.
It should be delivered to you, but it might bounce which will be the
problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From c.endemann at fsc.org  Mon Feb 13 04:16:51 2017
From: c.endemann at fsc.org (Christina Endemann)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 09:16:51 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for
 moderation
In-Reply-To: <09318b0e-0b6b-bbbc-dba9-9ec8ee6167b0@msapiro.net>
References: <88c4ab92771048dd9b1f7fd5afdf0486@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <1537d971-1d52-ffc1-f857-11509ffee845@msapiro.net>
 <0100015a28d30e1b-6a5e3f65-4916-4105-9cfe-8cf941df677c-000000@email.amazonses.com>
 <24a80b9fc6844aecbac5f42a68a43978@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <09318b0e-0b6b-bbbc-dba9-9ec8ee6167b0@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <bad0f40a994449dfb49f9c058c139832@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>

At least I don't have easy access to the logs, so I tested the listname-owner at ... address first, and in fact the mails could not be delivered.
I got some "Diagnostic information for administrators" (Remote Server returned '550 5.1.1 RESOLVER.ADR.RecipNotFound; not found') and the advice to contact my helpdesk.  So, does this e-mail address not exist, and our ITs have to set up this e-mail address first? 

Christina



-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+c.endemann=fsc.org at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Montag, 13. Februar 2017 09:47
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for moderation

On 02/13/2017 12:11 AM, Christina Endemann wrote:
> 
> Is there something else I can do about this? 


If you have access to the logs on the Mailman server you should see the
following:

In Mailman's vette log there will be and entry of the form

Timestamp (pid) listname post from user at example.com held,
message-id=<...>: reason

Note the timestamp

in Mailman's smtp log within a few seconds after the vette log timestamp there will be 3 messages similar to:

Timestamp (pid) <mailman.nn.tttttttttt.pppp.listname at example.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in ...

The first of these is the held message notice to the poster assumind the lists respond_to_post_requests is Yes. Otherwise there will be only the next ones.

The second is like the first except the nn in mailman.nn.tttttttttt will be the first nn +1. This is the admin notice sent to the listname-owner address. The third is like the second except it is the resend from listname-owner to the owner and moderator addresses and the '1 recips'
will be the total number of owners and moderators.

Then look in the system mail log at the time of these timestamps to see if these messages were delivered.

Also, whether or not you have access to the logs, try sending an ordinary email to the listname-owner at ... address and see what happens.
It should be delivered to you, but it might bounce which will be the problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/c.endemann%40fsc.org

From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 09:57:15 2017
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 09:57:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for
 moderation
In-Reply-To: <bad0f40a994449dfb49f9c058c139832@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
References: <88c4ab92771048dd9b1f7fd5afdf0486@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <1537d971-1d52-ffc1-f857-11509ffee845@msapiro.net>
 <0100015a28d30e1b-6a5e3f65-4916-4105-9cfe-8cf941df677c-000000@email.amazonses.com>
 <24a80b9fc6844aecbac5f42a68a43978@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <09318b0e-0b6b-bbbc-dba9-9ec8ee6167b0@msapiro.net>
 <bad0f40a994449dfb49f9c058c139832@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
Message-ID: <CABTRqU4Y2HroUHeNFw46j92sYzYT+a9CjCOFRLKzJDEyFXDr+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 4:16 AM, Christina Endemann <c.endemann at fsc.org>
wrote:

> At least I don't have easy access to the logs, so I tested the
> listname-owner at ... address first, and in fact the mails could not be
> delivered.
> I got some "Diagnostic information for administrators" (Remote Server
> returned '550 5.1.1 RESOLVER.ADR.RecipNotFound; not found') and the advice
> to contact my helpdesk.  So, does this e-mail address not exist, and our
> ITs have to set up this e-mail address first?
>

That's what it sounds like, yes.

But forgive me--just to be clear, did you literally type "listname-owner"
or did you replace "listname" with the name of the list(s)?


-----Original Message-----

> From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+c.endemann=
> fsc.org at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
> Sent: Montag, 13. Februar 2017 09:47
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for
> moderation
>
> On 02/13/2017 12:11 AM, Christina Endemann wrote:
> >
> > Is there something else I can do about this?
>
>
> If you have access to the logs on the Mailman server you should see the
> following:
>
> In Mailman's vette log there will be and entry of the form
>
> Timestamp (pid) listname post from user at example.com held,
> message-id=<...>: reason
>
> Note the timestamp
>
> in Mailman's smtp log within a few seconds after the vette log timestamp
> there will be 3 messages similar to:
>
> Timestamp (pid) <mailman.nn.tttttttttt.pppp.listname at example.com> smtp to
> listname for 1 recips, completed in ...
>
> The first of these is the held message notice to the poster assumind the
> lists respond_to_post_requests is Yes. Otherwise there will be only the
> next ones.
>
> The second is like the first except the nn in mailman.nn.tttttttttt will
> be the first nn +1. This is the admin notice sent to the listname-owner
> address. The third is like the second except it is the resend from
> listname-owner to the owner and moderator addresses and the '1 recips'
> will be the total number of owners and moderators.
>
> Then look in the system mail log at the time of these timestamps to see if
> these messages were delivered.
>
> Also, whether or not you have access to the logs, try sending an ordinary
> email to the listname-owner at ... address and see what happens.
> It should be delivered to you, but it might bounce which will be the
> problem.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy:
> http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/
> c.endemann%40fsc.org
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/
> minxmertzmomo%40gmail.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 13 11:12:11 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 08:12:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for
 moderation
In-Reply-To: <CABTRqU4Y2HroUHeNFw46j92sYzYT+a9CjCOFRLKzJDEyFXDr+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <88c4ab92771048dd9b1f7fd5afdf0486@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <1537d971-1d52-ffc1-f857-11509ffee845@msapiro.net>
 <0100015a28d30e1b-6a5e3f65-4916-4105-9cfe-8cf941df677c-000000@email.amazonses.com>
 <24a80b9fc6844aecbac5f42a68a43978@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <09318b0e-0b6b-bbbc-dba9-9ec8ee6167b0@msapiro.net>
 <bad0f40a994449dfb49f9c058c139832@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <CABTRqU4Y2HroUHeNFw46j92sYzYT+a9CjCOFRLKzJDEyFXDr+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e85433e1-3a57-a0e3-27bb-d97387689e17@msapiro.net>

On 02/13/2017 06:57 AM, Matt Morgan wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 4:16 AM, Christina Endemann <c.endemann at fsc.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> At least I don't have easy access to the logs, so I tested the
>> listname-owner at ... address first, and in fact the mails could not be
>> delivered.
>> I got some "Diagnostic information for administrators" (Remote Server
>> returned '550 5.1.1 RESOLVER.ADR.RecipNotFound; not found') and the advice
>> to contact my helpdesk.  So, does this e-mail address not exist, and our
>> ITs have to set up this e-mail address first?
>>
> 
> That's what it sounds like, yes.
> 
> But forgive me--just to be clear, did you literally type "listname-owner"
> or did you replace "listname" with the name of the list(s)?


Assuming the answer to Matt's question is that you did send to the
actual listname -owner address, the answer is your Mailman installation
is missing some pieces. Every Mailman list has 10 addresses associated
with it. They are the list's name @ the list's domain and 9 more with
-admin, -bounces, -confirm, -join, -leave, -owner, -request, -subscribe
and -unsubscribe appended to the listname. How mail to these addresses
is actually delivered depends on the particular MTA. Some configurations
use aliases such as the following example for the 'mailman' list on my
development server to deliver to mailman, but there are other methods.

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Wed Dec 28 19:56:24 2016
mailman:             "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

Whoever is responsible for the Mailman installation on the server needs
to fix this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From c.endemann at fsc.org  Mon Feb 13 11:12:36 2017
From: c.endemann at fsc.org (Christina Endemann)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 16:12:36 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for
 moderation
In-Reply-To: <CABTRqU4Y2HroUHeNFw46j92sYzYT+a9CjCOFRLKzJDEyFXDr+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <88c4ab92771048dd9b1f7fd5afdf0486@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <1537d971-1d52-ffc1-f857-11509ffee845@msapiro.net>
 <0100015a28d30e1b-6a5e3f65-4916-4105-9cfe-8cf941df677c-000000@email.amazonses.com>
 <24a80b9fc6844aecbac5f42a68a43978@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <09318b0e-0b6b-bbbc-dba9-9ec8ee6167b0@msapiro.net>
 <bad0f40a994449dfb49f9c058c139832@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>,
 <CABTRqU4Y2HroUHeNFw46j92sYzYT+a9CjCOFRLKzJDEyFXDr+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1487002355095.97520@fsc.org>

haha, no, that is fine. I am a beginner, so it is better to ask twice. :) And I am glad I can report I replaced it with the real list name, which I took from the bottom of the list's web page (and now please don't tell me I still used the wrong address).

If it is really the case that those e-mail addresses were never set up, I am surprised this can happen, but I took the lists over from someone else and cannot really say if anybody paid attention to this before.

I will contact my IT colleagues and will report back :)



Cheers, Christina



________________________________
From: Matt Morgan <minxmertzmomo at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 3:57 PM
To: Christina Endemann
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for moderation

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 4:16 AM, Christina Endemann <c.endemann at fsc.org<mailto:c.endemann at fsc.org>> wrote:
At least I don't have easy access to the logs, so I tested the listname-owner at ... address first, and in fact the mails could not be delivered.
I got some "Diagnostic information for administrators" (Remote Server returned '550 5.1.1 RESOLVER.ADR.RecipNotFound; not found') and the advice to contact my helpdesk.  So, does this e-mail address not exist, and our ITs have to set up this e-mail address first?

That's what it sounds like, yes.

But forgive me--just to be clear, did you literally type "listname-owner" or did you replace "listname" with the name of the list(s)?


-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+c.endemann<mailto:mailman-users-bounces%2Bc.endemann>=fsc.org at python.org<mailto:fsc.org at python.org>] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Montag, 13. Februar 2017 09:47
To: mailman-users at python.org<mailto:mailman-users at python.org>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for moderation

On 02/13/2017 12:11 AM, Christina Endemann wrote:
>
> Is there something else I can do about this?


If you have access to the logs on the Mailman server you should see the
following:

In Mailman's vette log there will be and entry of the form

Timestamp (pid) listname post from user at example.com<mailto:user at example.com> held,
message-id=<...>: reason

Note the timestamp

in Mailman's smtp log within a few seconds after the vette log timestamp there will be 3 messages similar to:

Timestamp (pid) <mailman.nn.tttttttttt.pppp.listname at example.com<mailto:mailman.nn.tttttttttt.pppp.listname at example.com>> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in ...

The first of these is the held message notice to the poster assumind the lists respond_to_post_requests is Yes. Otherwise there will be only the next ones.

The second is like the first except the nn in mailman.nn.tttttttttt will be the first nn +1. This is the admin notice sent to the listname-owner address. The third is like the second except it is the resend from listname-owner to the owner and moderator addresses and the '1 recips'
will be the total number of owners and moderators.

Then look in the system mail log at the time of these timestamps to see if these messages were delivered.

Also, whether or not you have access to the logs, try sending an ordinary email to the listname-owner at ... address and see what happens.
It should be delivered to you, but it might bounce which will be the problem.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net<mailto:mark at msapiro.net>>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org<mailto:Mailman-Users at python.org> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/c.endemann%40fsc.org
------------------------------------------------------
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https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/minxmertzmomo%40gmail.com


From c.endemann at fsc.org  Mon Feb 13 11:18:44 2017
From: c.endemann at fsc.org (Christina Endemann)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 16:18:44 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for
 moderation
In-Reply-To: <e85433e1-3a57-a0e3-27bb-d97387689e17@msapiro.net>
References: <88c4ab92771048dd9b1f7fd5afdf0486@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <1537d971-1d52-ffc1-f857-11509ffee845@msapiro.net>
 <0100015a28d30e1b-6a5e3f65-4916-4105-9cfe-8cf941df677c-000000@email.amazonses.com>
 <24a80b9fc6844aecbac5f42a68a43978@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <09318b0e-0b6b-bbbc-dba9-9ec8ee6167b0@msapiro.net>
 <bad0f40a994449dfb49f9c058c139832@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <CABTRqU4Y2HroUHeNFw46j92sYzYT+a9CjCOFRLKzJDEyFXDr+Q@mail.gmail.com>,
 <e85433e1-3a57-a0e3-27bb-d97387689e17@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1487002723486.27042@fsc.org>

ok, thanks!  We have (unfortunately?) outsourced the hosting of the mailing lists but I will forward that information. 

Thanks so much!

Viele Gr??e,

Christina 
________________________________________
From: Mailman-Users <mailman-users-bounces+c.endemann=fsc.org at python.org> on behalf of Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 5:12 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] lacking notifications when mails are held for moderation

On 02/13/2017 06:57 AM, Matt Morgan wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 4:16 AM, Christina Endemann <c.endemann at fsc.org>
> wrote:
>
>> At least I don't have easy access to the logs, so I tested the
>> listname-owner at ... address first, and in fact the mails could not be
>> delivered.
>> I got some "Diagnostic information for administrators" (Remote Server
>> returned '550 5.1.1 RESOLVER.ADR.RecipNotFound; not found') and the advice
>> to contact my helpdesk.  So, does this e-mail address not exist, and our
>> ITs have to set up this e-mail address first?
>>
>
> That's what it sounds like, yes.
>
> But forgive me--just to be clear, did you literally type "listname-owner"
> or did you replace "listname" with the name of the list(s)?


Assuming the answer to Matt's question is that you did send to the
actual listname -owner address, the answer is your Mailman installation
is missing some pieces. Every Mailman list has 10 addresses associated
with it. They are the list's name @ the list's domain and 9 more with
-admin, -bounces, -confirm, -join, -leave, -owner, -request, -subscribe
and -unsubscribe appended to the listname. How mail to these addresses
is actually delivered depends on the particular MTA. Some configurations
use aliases such as the following example for the 'mailman' list on my
development server to deliver to mailman, but there are other methods.

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Wed Dec 28 19:56:24 2016
mailman:             "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/var/MM/21/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

Whoever is responsible for the Mailman installation on the server needs
to fix this.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/c.endemann%40fsc.org

From lists at damorris.com  Sun Feb 12 17:05:45 2017
From: lists at damorris.com (Adam Morris)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 16:05:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user being bounced from list?
In-Reply-To: <d41dc49a-3db1-b1cd-ccf8-dc90daf138db@msapiro.net>
References: <768953b0-96ca-8833-6199-fd4762835f02@damorris.com>
 <d41dc49a-3db1-b1cd-ccf8-dc90daf138db@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <63d0dd54-bbb9-0152-7af3-0905915992b3@damorris.com>

Hi Mark and all,

Below is the attached bounce message.

I think the spam filter on the recipients end needs changing to add the 
mailing list but am not sure?


See below.


Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:


lists at sadamahmed.com

     host mx01.mailcluster.com.au [2401:fc00:0:14::6]
     SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
     550 The content of this message looked like spam.

Reporting-MTA: dns; vmse02.mailcluster.com.au

Action: failed
Final-Recipient:
rfc822;lists at sadamahmed.com

Status: 5.0.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mx01.mailcluster.com.au
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 The content of this message looked like spam.

Return-path:
<atug-bounces at damorris.com>

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References:
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<f7700c16-9842-f68d-b1df-33bc8a45ace5 at internode.on.net>

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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 13 12:31:31 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 09:31:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user being bounced from list?
In-Reply-To: <63d0dd54-bbb9-0152-7af3-0905915992b3@damorris.com>
References: <768953b0-96ca-8833-6199-fd4762835f02@damorris.com>
 <d41dc49a-3db1-b1cd-ccf8-dc90daf138db@msapiro.net>
 <63d0dd54-bbb9-0152-7af3-0905915992b3@damorris.com>
Message-ID: <04e08b29-06ec-4831-c8b4-7da71d2149c6@msapiro.net>

On 02/12/2017 02:05 PM, Adam Morris wrote:
> Hi Mark and all,
>
> Below is the attached bounce message.
> 
> I think the spam filter on the recipients end needs changing to add the
> mailing list but am not sure?


This is always problematic because ISPs won't tell you why they don't
like your mail because they consider that proprietary information.

There are a few things like DKIM signing your outgoing mail, publishing
SPF and ensuring full circle DNS that can help, but I see you already
are doing all those things correctly.

There is some info at <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030690>, but I think you
have all that covered.

The fact that this only affects one of the user's 4 subscriptions makes
it seem that this is something in his own configuration at the ISP.
Things like having the list posting address and the listname-bounces
address in his address book (or spam whitelist if any) can help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From barco at atservice.co.za  Mon Feb 13 16:01:48 2017
From: barco at atservice.co.za (Barco van Rhijn)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 23:01:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Spam Filters
In-Reply-To: <14f5a1ac-3add-b46b-979f-89e424a7c163@msapiro.net>
References: <a491b600-fe19-d4f3-6995-c60cfea7f84e@atservice.co.za>
 <cf3605dc-9eba-539a-7907-4b0904e0aa2f@msapiro.net>
 <9c14dc0c-f487-00b8-0822-d977bceb7d69@atservice.co.za>
 <14f5a1ac-3add-b46b-979f-89e424a7c163@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <88ea9c0c-0980-2a90-c272-d7dc8110a2f1@atservice.co.za>

Thanks for pointing out the fact that a pipe means or. I'm still quite 
new to regex but I'm learning quickly.

I've reviewed the page you reference on custom handlers.

I've looked into the custom handler file and notice 'discard_pattern' 
after comment suggesting regex here >>

39 
<https://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.67%20How%20do%20I%20implement%20a%20custom%20handler%20in%20Mailman%2C%20e.g.%20to%20mung%20headers%20or%20filter%20posts%20based%20on%20regex%20searches%20of%20the?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=MyHandler.py#CA-55dfa850a8a4b4119d680aeeb8a9f594c3426e78_39> 
# the message if more than one matches, the precedence is DISCARD over
40 
<https://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.67%20How%20do%20I%20implement%20a%20custom%20handler%20in%20Mailman%2C%20e.g.%20to%20mung%20headers%20or%20filter%20posts%20based%20on%20regex%20searches%20of%20the?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=MyHandler.py#CA-55dfa850a8a4b4119d680aeeb8a9f594c3426e78_40> 
# REJECT over HOLD.
41 
<https://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.67%20How%20do%20I%20implement%20a%20custom%20handler%20in%20Mailman%2C%20e.g.%20to%20mung%20headers%20or%20filter%20posts%20based%20on%20regex%20searches%20of%20the?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=MyHandler.py#CA-55dfa850a8a4b4119d680aeeb8a9f594c3426e78_41> 
DISCARD = re.compile(r'discard_pattern', re.IGNORECASE)
42 
<https://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.67%20How%20do%20I%20implement%20a%20custom%20handler%20in%20Mailman%2C%20e.g.%20to%20mung%20headers%20or%20filter%20posts%20based%20on%20regex%20searches%20of%20the?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=MyHandler.py#CA-55dfa850a8a4b4119d680aeeb8a9f594c3426e78_42> 
REJECT = re.compile(r'reject_pattern', re.IGNORECASE)
43 
<https://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.67%20How%20do%20I%20implement%20a%20custom%20handler%20in%20Mailman%2C%20e.g.%20to%20mung%20headers%20or%20filter%20posts%20based%20on%20regex%20searches%20of%20the?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=MyHandler.py#CA-55dfa850a8a4b4119d680aeeb8a9f594c3426e78_43> 
HOLD = re.compile(r'hold_pattern', re.IGNORECASE)
44 
<https://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.67%20How%20do%20I%20implement%20a%20custom%20handler%20in%20Mailman%2C%20e.g.%20to%20mung%20headers%20or%20filter%20posts%20based%20on%20regex%20searches%20of%20the?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=MyHandler.py#CA-55dfa850a8a4b4119d680aeeb8a9f594c3426e78_44> 
# And if the following regexp matches the Subject: header, the message will
45 
<https://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.67%20How%20do%20I%20implement%20a%20custom%20handler%20in%20Mailman%2C%20e.g.%20to%20mung%20headers%20or%20filter%20posts%20based%20on%20regex%20searches%20of%20the?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=MyHandler.py#CA-55dfa850a8a4b4119d680aeeb8a9f594c3426e78_45> 
# be unconditionally accepted.
46 
<https://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.67%20How%20do%20I%20implement%20a%20custom%20handler%20in%20Mailman%2C%20e.g.%20to%20mung%20headers%20or%20filter%20posts%20based%20on%20regex%20searches%20of%20the?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=MyHandler.py#CA-55dfa850a8a4b4119d680aeeb8a9f594c3426e78_46> 
ACCEPT = re.compile(r'accept_pattern', re.IGNORECASE)
1. Am I right in assuming that I can replace the text discard_pattern' 
with python formatted regex? 2. Can I have multiple Discard, Hold, 
Reject or Accept lines?

Barco

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 13 17:09:23 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 14:09:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Spam Filters
In-Reply-To: <88ea9c0c-0980-2a90-c272-d7dc8110a2f1@atservice.co.za>
References: <a491b600-fe19-d4f3-6995-c60cfea7f84e@atservice.co.za>
 <cf3605dc-9eba-539a-7907-4b0904e0aa2f@msapiro.net>
 <9c14dc0c-f487-00b8-0822-d977bceb7d69@atservice.co.za>
 <14f5a1ac-3add-b46b-979f-89e424a7c163@msapiro.net>
 <88ea9c0c-0980-2a90-c272-d7dc8110a2f1@atservice.co.za>
Message-ID: <05afa9f8-067d-a455-0c02-1b7ab706e909@msapiro.net>

On 02/13/2017 01:01 PM, Barco van Rhijn wrote:
> Thanks for pointing out the fact that a pipe means or. I'm still quite
> new to regex but I'm learning quickly.


The '|' symbol has many names and meanings
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar>. It is only a pipe in the
context of interprocess communication. It is not appropriate to refer to
it as 'pipe' in other contexts.


> I've reviewed the page you reference on custom handlers.
> 
> I've looked into the custom handler file and notice 'discard_pattern'
> after comment suggesting regex here >>
> 
> # the message if more than one matches, the precedence is DISCARD over
> # REJECT over HOLD.
> DISCARD = re.compile(r'discard_pattern', re.IGNORECASE)
> REJECT = re.compile(r'reject_pattern', re.IGNORECASE)
> HOLD = re.compile(r'hold_pattern', re.IGNORECASE)
> # And if the following regexp matches the Subject: header, the message will
> # be unconditionally accepted.
> ACCEPT = re.compile(r'accept_pattern', re.IGNORECASE)

> 1. Am I right in assuming that I can replace the text discard_pattern'
> with python formatted regex?

> 2. Can I have multiple Discard, Hold,
> Reject or Accept lines?


You really need to have an understanding of Python in order to turn that
example into a useful handler for your purpose. If I understand
correctly, you want to create regexp matches to be applied to the
message text and discard the message if the regexp matches.

To do that, you could replace lines 38 through 49 of that example with
something like

D1 = re.compile(r'\bbadword\b', re.IGNORECASE)
D2 = re.compile(r'\ba\s+bad\s+phrase\b', re.IGNORECASE)

and more D3, D4, etc. if you like

Then delete lines 52 through 59 and replace lines 64 through the end with

            for cre in (
                D1,
                D2,
                and as many more Dn as you've defined
                ):
                if cre.search(payload):
                    Moderate.do_discard(mlist, msg)

Note that indentation in Python is significant. The above lines are
indented 12 spaces, 16 spaces and 20 spaces for the first, second
through sixth and seventh respectively.

That said, you really need to be comfortable with the tutorial at
<https://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/index.html> before you try to do this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Feb 13 22:45:33 2017
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 21:45:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with AOL
Message-ID: <auto-000077022580@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Does anyone know if AOL has changed its DMARC policies recently.  All 
of a sudden I am getting lots of AOL bounces, or maybe they have 
black listed us?  nfbnet.org


From barco at atservice.co.za  Tue Feb 14 01:22:12 2017
From: barco at atservice.co.za (Barco van Rhijn)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 08:22:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating the full message body
Message-ID: <fcc3f11f-533d-b8aa-2af4-f896a7ab9590@atservice.co.za>

I'm in need of more of the body text when moderating a message.

When new users post for the first time they often need moderation in the 
beginning while they settle in. After this users are left to post more 
freely while the community keeps a watchful eye.

I'm aware that if a message is held for moderation that I can:

  * View an excerpt of the body text
  * Forward the message on to myself (In a time consuming format where I
    have to open the message as an attachment for every message). This
    format is very unfriendly to work with if you process more than 10
    messages this way.

1. My question really is if it's possible to enable viewing the entire 
body in moderation.

Or

2. If it's possible to have messages that are forwarded (like a 
traditional message forward - on to the moderator).

Barco


From jaybird at bluegrasspals.com  Tue Feb 14 00:33:54 2017
From: jaybird at bluegrasspals.com (Jayson Smith)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 00:33:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with AOL
In-Reply-To: <auto-000077022580@mailfront1.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000077022580@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <7f414261-dc5b-fa6f-864e-870ccb1adcd5@bluegrasspals.com>

Hi,

A while back, I was getting irregular AOL bounces. By that, I mean some 
messages would go through just fine, and some would bounce with the 
error "AOL will not accept delivery of this message." Very unhelpful, as 
you can see. Furthermore, if a message bounced, it was probably always 
going to bounce     no matter what you did E.G. send a copy to that 
particular user rather than a mailing list, etc.

One of my mailing lists has one AOL user who finally got tired of *his* 
messages to the list being rejected by AOL. We did some investigating, 
and it turns out they have a whitelist program. I don't know the exact 
URL but can probably find it if you're interested.

Hope this helps,

Jayson

On 2/13/2017 10:45 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> Does anyone know if AOL has changed its DMARC policies recently.  All 
> of a sudden I am getting lots of AOL bounces, or maybe they have black 
> listed us?  nfbnet.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jaybird%40bluegrasspals.com
>
> .
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 14 09:57:28 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 06:57:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with AOL
In-Reply-To: <7f414261-dc5b-fa6f-864e-870ccb1adcd5@bluegrasspals.com>
References: <auto-000077022580@mailfront1.g2host.com>
 <7f414261-dc5b-fa6f-864e-870ccb1adcd5@bluegrasspals.com>
Message-ID: <30da0437-878d-4365-28a8-d76a73cc8d2e@msapiro.net>

On 02/13/2017 09:33 PM, Jayson Smith wrote:
> 
> One of my mailing lists has one AOL user who finally got tired of *his*
> messages to the list being rejected by AOL.


Some time ago, I noticed that when an AOL user posts to a list, the list
copy sent back to that user, but not other AOL users, was always
rejected with the "AOL will not accept delivery of this message."
reason. This is similar to Gmail (see <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030680>)
except Gmail just drops the message rather than bouncing it.

Anyway, I just set all the AOL list members to not receive their own
posts (they weren't receiving them anyway), and that worked around the
problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 14 10:09:18 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 07:09:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating the full message body
In-Reply-To: <fcc3f11f-533d-b8aa-2af4-f896a7ab9590@atservice.co.za>
References: <fcc3f11f-533d-b8aa-2af4-f896a7ab9590@atservice.co.za>
Message-ID: <e0c213dd-bbcf-d6d2-7541-cc1dadd790ce@msapiro.net>

On 02/13/2017 10:22 PM, Barco van Rhijn wrote:
> 
> 1. My question really is if it's possible to enable viewing the entire
> body in moderation.



The number of lines of the message body displayed in the admindb web
interface can be set in mm_cfg.py. The Defaults.py setting is

ADMINDB_PAGE_TEXT_LIMIT = 4096

> Or
> 
> 2. If it's possible to have messages that are forwarded (like a
> traditional message forward - on to the moderator).


The admindb interface has a Forward checkbox. Check the box, set the
message disposition to 'Defer', change the default listname-owner
address for the forward if necessary and Submit. Then after reviewing
the forwarded message, go back and Accept, Reject or Discard the message

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Feb 14 10:40:19 2017
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 09:40:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with AOL
In-Reply-To: <30da0437-878d-4365-28a8-d76a73cc8d2e@msapiro.net>
References: <auto-000077022580@mailfront1.g2host.com>
 <7f414261-dc5b-fa6f-864e-870ccb1adcd5@bluegrasspals.com>
 <30da0437-878d-4365-28a8-d76a73cc8d2e@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <auto-000076456129@mailfront2.g2host.com>

At 08:57 AM 2/14/2017, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>On 02/13/2017 09:33 PM, Jayson Smith wrote:
> >
> > One of my mailing lists has one AOL user who finally got tired of *his*
> > messages to the list being rejected by AOL.
>
>
>Some time ago, I noticed that when an AOL user posts to a list, the list
>copy sent back to that user, but not other AOL users, was always
>rejected with the "AOL will not accept delivery of this message."
>reason. This is similar to Gmail (see <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030680>)
>except Gmail just drops the message rather than bouncing it.
>
>Anyway, I just set all the AOL list members to not receive their own
>posts (they weren't receiving them anyway), and that worked around the
>problem.

Well I will have to investigate further and see if that is the 
problem. You said "some time ago," and it is recent with me, which 
means it could be something else, or not.  Have you written, or is 
there a script to go through all lists and change attribute, and/or 
would it work to send them post acknowledgement? With 300 lists and 
over 12,000 users I can't really do it by hand.

Dave



From Richard at Damon-family.org  Tue Feb 14 13:41:25 2017
From: Richard at Damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 13:41:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating the full message body
In-Reply-To: <fcc3f11f-533d-b8aa-2af4-f896a7ab9590@atservice.co.za>
References: <fcc3f11f-533d-b8aa-2af4-f896a7ab9590@atservice.co.za>
Message-ID: <94F44902-1E5E-45DB-9E87-C2A6DC71AE97@Damon-family.org>

I have the option admin_immed_notify turned on, and with that an email is sent immediately to the moderator email address that includes as an attachment a complete copy of the message as sent.I find this very useful to check the message for anything funny. My mailing list is 'Plain Text Only' and some MUAs (particularly web email systems) sometimes send messages in a way that the whole message gets stripped, and being able to see the original message can help figure out what happened

> On Feb 14, 2017, at 1:22 AM, Barco van Rhijn <barco at atservice.co.za> wrote:
> 
> I'm in need of more of the body text when moderating a message.
> 
> When new users post for the first time they often need moderation in the beginning while they settle in. After this users are left to post more freely while the community keeps a watchful eye.
> 
> I'm aware that if a message is held for moderation that I can:
> 
> * View an excerpt of the body text
> * Forward the message on to myself (In a time consuming format where I
>   have to open the message as an attachment for every message). This
>   format is very unfriendly to work with if you process more than 10
>   messages this way.
> 
> 1. My question really is if it's possible to enable viewing the entire body in moderation.
> 
> Or
> 
> 2. If it's possible to have messages that are forwarded (like a traditional message forward - on to the moderator).
> 
> Barco
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/richard%40damon-family.org


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 14 17:30:47 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 14:30:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with AOL
In-Reply-To: <auto-000076456129@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000077022580@mailfront1.g2host.com>
 <7f414261-dc5b-fa6f-864e-870ccb1adcd5@bluegrasspals.com>
 <30da0437-878d-4365-28a8-d76a73cc8d2e@msapiro.net>
 <auto-000076456129@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <bcd7a591-3ee3-78a6-65c2-307849de592e@msapiro.net>

On 02/14/2017 07:40 AM, David Andrews wrote:
> 
> Well I will have to investigate further and see if that is the problem.
> You said "some time ago," and it is recent with me, which means it could
> be something else, or not.


True, but you should be able to tell from mail logs or Mailman's bounce
log. I.e., when an AOL user posts, does only the delivery to that AOL
user bounce or does delivery to all AOL users bounce.

The former was my case.


> Have you written, or is there a script to go
> through all lists and change attribute, and/or would it work to send
> them post acknowledgement? With 300 lists and over 12,000 users I can't
> really do it by hand.


Here's a withlist script. Save it in Mailman's bin/ directory as
aol_notmetoo.py

------------------------------- cut here -------------------------------
from Mailman import mm_cfg

def aol_notmetoo(mlist):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    for member in mlist.getMembers():
        if member.lower().endswith('@aol.com'):
            mlist.setMemberOption(
                member, mm_cfg.DontReceiveOwnPosts, 1)
            # If you don't want to set 'ack' remove the next two lines
            mlist.setMemberOption(
                member, mm_cfg.AcknowledgePosts, 1)
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()
------------------------------- cut here -------------------------------


Then you can run this via withlist

bin/withlist -a -r aol_notmetoo

That will set 'not metoo' and optionally 'ack' for every @aol.com member
on every list



-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 14 17:36:45 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 14:36:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with AOL
In-Reply-To: <auto-000077022580@mailfront1.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000077022580@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <9d1f3a44-61b5-6717-0411-58ca3384c22e@msapiro.net>

On 02/13/2017 07:45 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> Does anyone know if AOL has changed its DMARC policies recently.  All of
> a sudden I am getting lots of AOL bounces, or maybe they have black
> listed us?  nfbnet.org


Back to the original question.

I don't think AOL has changed anything with respect to DMARC. If it is
not the case that these are bounces of users own posts, then there is
another issue. What do the bounces (or rejects in the mail log) say is
the reason?

You may find <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030690> helpful.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Feb 14 22:39:33 2017
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 21:39:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with AOL
In-Reply-To: <bcd7a591-3ee3-78a6-65c2-307849de592e@msapiro.net>
References: <auto-000077022580@mailfront1.g2host.com>
 <7f414261-dc5b-fa6f-864e-870ccb1adcd5@bluegrasspals.com>
 <30da0437-878d-4365-28a8-d76a73cc8d2e@msapiro.net>
 <auto-000076456129@mailfront2.g2host.com>
 <bcd7a591-3ee3-78a6-65c2-307849de592e@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <auto-000076508962@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Thanks!  As usual You're the man!

Dave

p.s.  I suppose I could edit and use for gmail too, and put them in a 
cron job and run once a day to take care of new folks.


At 04:30 PM 2/14/2017, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>On 02/14/2017 07:40 AM, David Andrews wrote:
> >
> > Well I will have to investigate further and see if that is the problem.
> > You said "some time ago," and it is recent with me, which means it could
> > be something else, or not.
>
>
>True, but you should be able to tell from mail logs or Mailman's bounce
>log. I.e., when an AOL user posts, does only the delivery to that AOL
>user bounce or does delivery to all AOL users bounce.
>
>The former was my case.
>
>
> > Have you written, or is there a script to go
> > through all lists and change attribute, and/or would it work to send
> > them post acknowledgement? With 300 lists and over 12,000 users I can't
> > really do it by hand.
>
>
>Here's a withlist script. Save it in Mailman's bin/ directory as
>aol_notmetoo.py
>
>------------------------------- cut here -------------------------------
>from Mailman import mm_cfg
>
>def aol_notmetoo(mlist):
>     if not mlist.Locked():
>         mlist.Lock()
>     for member in mlist.getMembers():
>         if member.lower().endswith('@aol.com'):
>             mlist.setMemberOption(
>                 member, mm_cfg.DontReceiveOwnPosts, 1)
>             # If you don't want to set 'ack' remove the next two lines
>             mlist.setMemberOption(
>                 member, mm_cfg.AcknowledgePosts, 1)
>     mlist.Save()
>     mlist.Unlock()
>------------------------------- cut here -------------------------------
>
>
>Then you can run this via withlist
>
>bin/withlist -a -r aol_notmetoo
>
>That will set 'not metoo' and optionally 'ack' for every @aol.com member
>on every list
>
>
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dhoffmann at uwalumni.com  Tue Feb 14 23:07:08 2017
From: dhoffmann at uwalumni.com (Dominik Hoffmann)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 23:07:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?utf-8?q?Need_new_SMTP_provider=E2=80=94SMTP2Go_?=
 =?utf-8?q?won=27t_allow_what_they_call_autoforwarding?=
Message-ID: <3A0D680E-50E4-41B8-A61A-F7FA100F7EFE@uwalumni.com>

Hi Everyone:

A few months ago STMP2Go was recommended to me, because Verizon discontinued authenticated mail relaying for senders not using a verizon.net email address. More than the purported attempt to fight spam, I think, this was a way to lock people into using Verizon email addresses and making it harder to switch ISPs for those who do not want to change email addresses in the process.

SMTP2Go now informs me that the handful of Mailman mailing lists I am running for each of my kids, which automatically send copies to me and my wife, in addition to the respective child, are a violation of their mail relaying policy, because there is no way to eliminate the relaying of spam. They are concerned that the mail server that ultimately receives these messages will rat on SMTP2Go as having relayed spam, which will make their reputation and the deliverability of their other customers? messages suffer. In my case, however, the recipients are all on my personal mail server, which doesn?t do any such reporting.

Regardless, what are other Mailman admin?s recommendations for 3rd-party SMTP services, hopefully ones, where I will not run into trouble with my configuration?

Yours,

Dominik

From adam at agp-llc.com  Tue Feb 14 23:16:11 2017
From: adam at agp-llc.com (Adam Goldberg)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 04:16:11 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 
 =?utf-8?q?Need_new_SMTP_provider=E2=80=94SMTP2Go?=
 =?utf-8?q?_won=27t_allow_what_they_call_autoforwarding?=
Message-ID: <0100015a3ffc1be0-1714af4e-859e-4c4f-8c09-b6b43596f8a1-000000@email.amazonses.com>

I probably recommended SMTP2Go, and sorry they're an issue for this. I use Amazon AWS SES for email lists. It's not perfect, but it's inexpensive and fast.

Adam Goldberg
202-507-9900




On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 11:13 PM -0500, "Dominik Hoffmann" <dhoffmann at uwalumni.com<mailto:dhoffmann at uwalumni.com>> wrote:

Hi Everyone:

A few months ago STMP2Go was recommended to me, because Verizon discontinued authenticated mail relaying for senders not using a verizon.net email address. More than the purported attempt to fight spam, I think, this was a way to lock people into using Verizon email addresses and making it harder to switch ISPs for those who do not want to change email addresses in the process.

SMTP2Go now informs me that the handful of Mailman mailing lists I am running for each of my kids, which automatically send copies to me and my wife, in addition to the respective child, are a violation of their mail relaying policy, because there is no way to eliminate the relaying of spam. They are concerned that the mail server that ultimately receives these messages will rat on SMTP2Go as having relayed spam, which will make their reputation and the deliverability of their other customers? messages suffer. In my case, however, the recipients are all on my personal mail server, which doesn?t do any such reporting.

Regardless, what are other Mailman admin?s recommendations for 3rd-party SMTP services, hopefully ones, where I will not run into trouble with my configuration?

Yours,

Dominik
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adam%40agp-llc.com

From adamsca at gmail.com  Wed Feb 15 15:03:43 2017
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 12:03:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove pending requests from one address for all
 lists
Message-ID: <CAA13W+-BPhtqG8s-P05dRQaA6p9GJBaf-eWQHSOevTZ6HAgPVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hell9o all,

Is there a way to remove pending requests from a specific address for all
lists ? Our system periodically is flooded by requests like this. The
result is dependent on how the individual list is set up. There are over
1000 lists on our server. The 'discard' command can remove all pending
requests to one specific list.

Is there a command line utility or script that can do this ?

Many thanks.

-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 15 17:42:15 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:42:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove pending requests from one address for
 all lists
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+-BPhtqG8s-P05dRQaA6p9GJBaf-eWQHSOevTZ6HAgPVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA13W+-BPhtqG8s-P05dRQaA6p9GJBaf-eWQHSOevTZ6HAgPVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f02fb6f0-e4eb-a36b-caf4-da44161e54ce@msapiro.net>

On 02/15/2017 12:03 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to remove pending requests from a specific address for all
> lists ? Our system periodically is flooded by requests like this. The
> result is dependent on how the individual list is set up. There are over
> 1000 lists on our server. The 'discard' command can remove all pending
> requests to one specific list.


See <https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/erase>, mirrored at
<https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/erase>, described as:

erase
    Remove an address or all addresses matching a regexp from the
installation. I.e. for every list, if the address is a member, it is
removed. If there are any held posts or (un)subscription requests from
the address, they are removed too. Optionally, any subscription requests
from the address waiting user confirmation are also removed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From adamsca at gmail.com  Wed Feb 15 23:19:48 2017
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:19:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove pending requests from one address for
 all lists
In-Reply-To: <f02fb6f0-e4eb-a36b-caf4-da44161e54ce@msapiro.net>
References: <CAA13W+-BPhtqG8s-P05dRQaA6p9GJBaf-eWQHSOevTZ6HAgPVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <f02fb6f0-e4eb-a36b-caf4-da44161e54ce@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAA13W+8=ZmjxF4cyT+kLDFUHupunanVONmDj=3i+Qf2UdVyQrw@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, Mark. This is very helpful.

On Feb 15, 2017 2:45 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 02/15/2017 12:03 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> >
> > Is there a way to remove pending requests from a specific address for all
> > lists ? Our system periodically is flooded by requests like this. The
> > result is dependent on how the individual list is set up. There are over
> > 1000 lists on our server. The 'discard' command can remove all pending
> > requests to one specific list.
>
>
> See <https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/erase>, mirrored at
> <https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/erase>, described as:
>
> erase
>     Remove an address or all addresses matching a regexp from the
> installation. I.e. for every list, if the address is a member, it is
> removed. If there are any held posts or (un)subscription requests from
> the address, they are removed too. Optionally, any subscription requests
> from the address waiting user confirmation are also removed.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/
> adamsca%40gmail.com
>

From misterbhatt at gmail.com  Thu Feb 16 03:15:36 2017
From: misterbhatt at gmail.com (Amit Bhatt)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 13:45:36 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for better servicess for mailing list
Message-ID: <CAOZo=+8YCygbZEGde9rNskgJMuknFox0GFOOKxUu_vP=DJCJvA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

We are running two mailing lists with the host ultra.us for visually
impaired people in India.
Inicially ultra.us provided their support when we hired their services
but they are not ready to respond even the tickets we have raised for
the resolution now. Currently we are facing lot of problems and bugs
but they are not fixing them.

I will appreciate if some other good and cost effective service
provider can be suggested to me, so I can change the host and mailing
list service provider for the smooth functioning of the mailing list.

Thanks,

Amit Bhatt

From luscheina at yahoo.de  Thu Feb 16 05:29:57 2017
From: luscheina at yahoo.de (Christian F Buser)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 11:29:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for better servicess for mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CAOZo=+8YCygbZEGde9rNskgJMuknFox0GFOOKxUu_vP=DJCJvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOZo=+8YCygbZEGde9rNskgJMuknFox0GFOOKxUu_vP=DJCJvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170216112957753911.9b40ae32@yahoo.de>

Hi Amit 

We use digimouse.eu for mailing lists and web hosting. Support is very responsive, however I have no insight about the cost. I asked them to contact you if they are interested.

Good luck, Chrisitan

Hello Amit Bhatt. On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 13:45:36 +0530, you wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> We are running two mailing lists with the host ultra.us for visually
> impaired people in India.
> Inicially ultra.us provided their support when we hired their services
> but they are not ready to respond even the tickets we have raised for
> the resolution now. Currently we are facing lot of problems and bugs
> but they are not fixing them.
> 
> I will appreciate if some other good and cost effective service
> provider can be suggested to me, so I can change the host and mailing
> list service provider for the smooth functioning of the mailing list.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Amit Bhatt
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/luscheina%40yahoo.de
-- 
Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland)      
Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org

From c.endemann at fsc.org  Thu Feb 16 05:47:14 2017
From: c.endemann at fsc.org (Christina Endemann)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 10:47:14 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can I use text box for real names for a different
 purpose
Message-ID: <21faa374b3714f3f80bc482908aabacf@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>


Dear all, 

The users of our mailing list don't use their personal accounts for the mailing list, and don't work with commands, like requesting the list of members. 
In that case, can I use the text field in the membership list which is provided for real names for a different purpose? 

The reason  is that only certain groups are entitled to use our mailing lists. I would like to use that text field to specify to which group that person belongs, e.g. the company name. 

Thanks in advance, 

Christina


Christina Endemann
Quality Assurance Officer
- - working in the mornings - -


From brian at emwd.com  Thu Feb 16 07:24:00 2017
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 07:24:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for better servicess for mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CAOZo=+8YCygbZEGde9rNskgJMuknFox0GFOOKxUu_vP=DJCJvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOZo=+8YCygbZEGde9rNskgJMuknFox0GFOOKxUu_vP=DJCJvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0a1e01d2884f$8e357e30$aaa07a90$@emwd.com>

> Hello all,
> 
> We are running two mailing lists with the host ultra.us for visually
> impaired people in India.
> Inicially ultra.us provided their support when we hired their services
> but they are not ready to respond even the tickets we have raised for
> the resolution now. Currently we are facing lot of problems and bugs
> but they are not fixing them.
> 
> I will appreciate if some other good and cost effective service
> provider can be suggested to me, so I can change the host and mailing
> list service provider for the smooth functioning of the mailing list.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Amit Bhatt

Hi Amit,

We are a mailman hosting provider and have been offering great support to
our list clients for over 10+ years. Our pricing is very reasonable and we
are able offer full migration assistance for your list configurations,
members, and archives. More details about our service can be found at:

https://www.emwd.com/mailman-hosting/

You can also find a list of mailman friendly hosts at:

https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services

Feel free to contact me off-list if you have more questions.

Brian Carpenter
Owner

Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years.

E: brian at emwd.com
www.emwd.com


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 16 12:02:52 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 09:02:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can I use text box for real names for a
 different purpose
In-Reply-To: <21faa374b3714f3f80bc482908aabacf@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
References: <21faa374b3714f3f80bc482908aabacf@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
Message-ID: <834b3c2f-54ac-befc-46fa-39ceede0438b@msapiro.net>

On 02/16/2017 02:47 AM, Christina Endemann wrote:
> 
> The users of our mailing list don't use their personal accounts for the mailing list, and don't work with commands, like requesting the list of members. 
> In that case, can I use the text field in the membership list which is provided for real names for a different purpose? 


You can use that field for anything you want. The biggest potential
downside I see is when DMARC mitigation is applied to a message. If the
original post is

From: John Doe <jdoe at example.com>

the DMARC mitigated message will be

From: John Doe via list <list at example.com>

However, if the original is

From: jdoe at example.com

without a display name, the DMARC mitigated message will be

From: xxx via list <list at example.com>

where xxx is the contents of that field. A similar situation occurs when
a list is fully personalized so each post is addressed To: the
recipient. In that case the post sent to jdoe at example.com will be addressed

To: xxx <jdoe at example.com>

where xxx is again the contents of that field.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From bryan at skiblack.com  Thu Feb 16 16:48:10 2017
From: bryan at skiblack.com (Bryan Blackwell)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 16:48:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Friendly name for digest sender
Message-ID: <64104483-F204-474C-AFCB-669872EDE02C@skiblack.com>

Hi folks,

I noticed recently that there's no real name for my digest mail - the -request address is correctly displayed, but there no friendly name.  So on my Yahoo mail the pop up display for message shows the sender name as "null".  Clearly this isn't a big deal, but I looked and couldn't find a setting, is there an easy way to have a name associated with that address?

--Bryan

--  Bryan Blackwell --
Unix Systems Engineer
bryan at skiblack.com




From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 16 17:56:05 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:56:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Friendly name for digest sender
In-Reply-To: <64104483-F204-474C-AFCB-669872EDE02C@skiblack.com>
References: <64104483-F204-474C-AFCB-669872EDE02C@skiblack.com>
Message-ID: <99cac0aa-df17-2aac-85d8-73435d02760a@msapiro.net>

On 02/16/2017 01:48 PM, Bryan Blackwell wrote:
> 
> I noticed recently that there's no real name for my digest mail - the -request address is correctly displayed, but there no friendly name.  So on my Yahoo mail the pop up display for message shows the sender name as "null".  Clearly this isn't a big deal, but I looked and couldn't find a setting, is there an easy way to have a name associated with that address?


You (or the admins of your list's server) would need to patch the code
in Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py. Near the top, change

> from email.Utils import getaddresses, formatdate

to

> from email.Utils import getaddresses, formatdate, formataddr

and in the send_i18n_digests function, change the lines

>     mimemsg['From'] = mlist.GetRequestEmail()

and

>     rfc1153msg['From'] = mlist.GetRequestEmail()

to

>     mimemsg['From'] = formataddr(mlist.description, mlist.GetRequestEmail())

and

>     rfc1153msg['From'] = formataddr(mlist.description, mlist.GetRequestEmail())

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at mailmanlists.net  Thu Feb 16 19:07:59 2017
From: mark at mailmanlists.net (Mark Dale)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 11:07:59 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for better servicess for mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CAOZo=+8YCygbZEGde9rNskgJMuknFox0GFOOKxUu_vP=DJCJvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOZo=+8YCygbZEGde9rNskgJMuknFox0GFOOKxUu_vP=DJCJvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16b02ec7-37ba-8754-2255-aa9af2ecb4e7@mailmanlists.net>

Hi Amit,

If your group is a community service organisation (and a not-for-profit)
we'd be happy to host your lists for you at no charge.


Regards,
Mark


========================================
 MailmanLists - hosted discussion lists
 Canberra, Australia
 Tel: +61 .2 61003121
 http://www.mailmanlists.net
=======================================

On 16/02/17 19:15, Amit Bhatt wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> We are running two mailing lists with the host ultra.us for visually
> impaired people in India.
> Inicially ultra.us provided their support when we hired their services
> but they are not ready to respond even the tickets we have raised for
> the resolution now. Currently we are facing lot of problems and bugs
> but they are not fixing them.
> 
> I will appreciate if some other good and cost effective service
> provider can be suggested to me, so I can change the host and mailing
> list service provider for the smooth functioning of the mailing list.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Amit Bhatt
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mark%40mailmanlists.net
> 
> 

From scott at qth.com  Thu Feb 16 21:37:30 2017
From: scott at qth.com (Scott Neader)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:37:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to track down Digest spam reporter
Message-ID: <CAPLm_7AxUhn4Fp63Z2gRKmriJ+OSC=aZWESW2YX=WR6vBvqkwg@mail.gmail.com>

We have a fairly active mailing list where at least one Hotmail user is
marking every Digest message they receive as "spam".  We receive the
reports from Hotmail, but we have no way of knowing which subscriber is
causing these spam reports (or we'd remove them, of course).

Normally we can turn on "Personalization" and add the subscriber's email
address to the footer... but this can't be done for Digests. Any other
ideas on how we can track down this spam reporter and get them off the
list, short of moving every Hotmail user off the digests?  And, as a side
question, I'm curious about the technical reasons why Personalization can't
be available for Digests.

Thanks, in advance!

- Scott

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 16 22:47:34 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 19:47:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to track down Digest spam reporter
In-Reply-To: <CAPLm_7AxUhn4Fp63Z2gRKmriJ+OSC=aZWESW2YX=WR6vBvqkwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPLm_7AxUhn4Fp63Z2gRKmriJ+OSC=aZWESW2YX=WR6vBvqkwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50d25a76-5c8f-d0a0-a3ed-3d41f6638529@msapiro.net>

On 02/16/2017 06:37 PM, Scott Neader wrote:
> 
> Normally we can turn on "Personalization" and add the subscriber's email
> address to the footer... but this can't be done for Digests. Any other
> ideas on how we can track down this spam reporter and get them off the
> list, short of moving every Hotmail user off the digests?


Set VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 in mm_cfg.py. This will cause Mailman to
send all messages with envelope from
listname-bounces+user=example.com at list.domain where user at example.com is
the user sent to. That address will also be in Sender: and Errors-To:
headers.


>  And, as a side
> question, I'm curious about the technical reasons why Personalization can't
> be available for Digests.


There are differences in how digest_header and digest_footer are added
to messages as opposed to how msg_header and msg_footer are added. In
particular, digest_header and digest_footer are added while the message
is being created and the digest_header is not the first thing in the
message. It comes between the masthead and the table of contents.
Footers are added at the end, but in plain digests, the footer is added
as if it is another message with Subject: Digest Footer for RFC 1153
compliance and in MIME digests both the header and footer are added as
separate MIME parts with Content-Description: Digest Header and Digest
Footer respectively.

All this says that the process used to add msg_header and msg_footer
during delivery when recipients are known doesn't work for digests.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From c.endemann at fsc.org  Fri Feb 17 03:23:42 2017
From: c.endemann at fsc.org (Christina Endemann)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 08:23:42 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can I use text box for real names for a
 different purpose
In-Reply-To: <834b3c2f-54ac-befc-46fa-39ceede0438b@msapiro.net>
References: <21faa374b3714f3f80bc482908aabacf@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>
 <834b3c2f-54ac-befc-46fa-39ceede0438b@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <36068af4ab144dbd9c2cb6a2fc12afe4@FSC-DMZ-MAIL.fsc-ic.org>

Thanks Marc, 
We don't use personalized messages but the DMARC mitigation could be an issue. 
Thanks for the info!

Regards, 

Christina 


-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+c.endemann=fsc.org at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2017 18:03
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] can I use text box for real names for a different purpose

On 02/16/2017 02:47 AM, Christina Endemann wrote:
> 
> The users of our mailing list don't use their personal accounts for the mailing list, and don't work with commands, like requesting the list of members. 
> In that case, can I use the text field in the membership list which is provided for real names for a different purpose? 


You can use that field for anything you want. The biggest potential downside I see is when DMARC mitigation is applied to a message. If the original post is

From: John Doe <jdoe at example.com>

the DMARC mitigated message will be

From: John Doe via list <list at example.com>

However, if the original is

From: jdoe at example.com

without a display name, the DMARC mitigated message will be

From: xxx via list <list at example.com>

where xxx is the contents of that field. A similar situation occurs when a list is fully personalized so each post is addressed To: the recipient. In that case the post sent to jdoe at example.com will be addressed

To: xxx <jdoe at example.com>

where xxx is again the contents of that field.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/c.endemann%40fsc.org

From dhoffmann at uwalumni.com  Fri Feb 17 16:32:36 2017
From: dhoffmann at uwalumni.com (Dominik Hoffmann)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 16:32:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Amway Order Confirmation [#1095286]
References: <1669300261.35140.1487366919642@EG2167APRSF>
Message-ID: <6D899064-C2BD-442E-96B9-D628BDFD669C@uwalumni.com>

I get these messages from a particular sender who must have set his message to urgent. I have no influence over how these messages are sent. What must I do to my Mailman list, so the messages go through as originally sent and not in the form shown below?

As it is, Mailman does not attach the original message.

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Customer Service <customer.service@*******.com>
> Subject: Re: ****** Order Confirmation [#1095286]
> Date: February 17, 2017 at 4:28:39 PM EST
> To: ********-owner@********.net
> Reply-To: customer.service@*******.com
> 
> Thank you for contacting us.
> We have received your e-mail. An ****** Customer Service Representative will respond to you shortly.
> -----********-owner@********.net Wrote -----
> Your urgent message to the******** mailing list was not authorized
> for delivery.  The original message as received by Mailman is
> attached.


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 17 18:07:39 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 15:07:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Amway Order Confirmation [#1095286]
In-Reply-To: <6D899064-C2BD-442E-96B9-D628BDFD669C@uwalumni.com>
References: <1669300261.35140.1487366919642@EG2167APRSF>
 <6D899064-C2BD-442E-96B9-D628BDFD669C@uwalumni.com>
Message-ID: <2349c0de-ef05-eff4-6f78-bd76ef3bdcc7@msapiro.net>

On 02/17/2017 01:32 PM, Dominik Hoffmann wrote:
> I get these messages from a particular sender who must have set his message to urgent. I have no influence over how these messages are sent. What must I do to my Mailman list, so the messages go through as originally sent and not in the form shown below?


Mailman has a feature for 'urgent' messages. If an incoming message has an

Urgent: xxx

header where xxx is one of the list admin, moderator or poster
passwords, the message is sent immediately to all list members
regardless of regular/digest or delivery enabled/disabled status

If the password doesn't match one of the three list passwords, the
message is rejected rather than accepted as a normal message so that the
sender knows it wasn't delivered as an urgent message.

If you can't prevent the message from being posted with an Urgent:
header, you can change Mailman's behavior from reject to accept as normal.

To do this, you need to patch Mailman/Handlers/CalcRecips.py. Around
line 58 there is a comment:

>     # Support for urgent messages, which bypasses digests and disabled
>     # delivery and forces an immediate delivery to all members Right Now.  We
>     # are specifically /not/ allowing the site admins password to work here
>     # because we want to discourage the practice of sending the site admin
>     # password through email in the clear. (see also Approve.py)

Remove that comment and the following 21 lines that end with:

>             text = _("""\
> Your urgent message to the %(realname)s mailing list was not authorized for
> delivery.  The original message as received by Mailman is attached.
> """)
>             raise Errors.RejectMessage, Utils.wrap(text)



> As it is, Mailman does not attach the original message.


I suspect the attachment of the original message is lost when the user
forwards the reject to you because it certainly should be attached to
the rejection notice.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 17 18:41:57 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 15:41:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Amway Order Confirmation [#1095286]
In-Reply-To: <6D899064-C2BD-442E-96B9-D628BDFD669C@uwalumni.com>
References: <1669300261.35140.1487366919642@EG2167APRSF>
 <6D899064-C2BD-442E-96B9-D628BDFD669C@uwalumni.com>
Message-ID: <07ec7ba5-63cd-8d39-cbe9-57225d4ab8c6@msapiro.net>

On 02/17/2017 01:32 PM, Dominik Hoffmann wrote:
> I get these messages from a particular sender who must have set his message to urgent. I have no influence over how these messages are sent. What must I do to my Mailman list, so the messages go through as originally sent and not in the form shown below?


I may have missed this in my original reply. Are you saying that the
message below came from the list? If so, then what is happening is the
user is posting something with an Urgent: header. It is rejected by
Mailman and the user then forwards the rejection notice back to the
list, this time without an Urgent: header.

The original is not attached either because the user's MUA doesn't
include it in the forwarded message or your list's content filtering
doesn't accept message/rfc822 MIME parts.


>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> From: Customer Service <customer.service@*******.com>
>> Subject: Re: ****** Order Confirmation [#1095286]
>> Date: February 17, 2017 at 4:28:39 PM EST
>> To: ********-owner@********.net
>> Reply-To: customer.service@*******.com
>>
>> Thank you for contacting us.
>> We have received your e-mail. An ****** Customer Service Representative will respond to you shortly.
>> -----********-owner@********.net Wrote -----
>> Your urgent message to the******** mailing list was not authorized
>> for delivery.  The original message as received by Mailman is
>> attached.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dhoffmann at uwalumni.com  Sat Feb 18 01:17:36 2017
From: dhoffmann at uwalumni.com (Dominik Hoffmann)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 01:17:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Amway Order Confirmation [#1095286]
In-Reply-To: <07ec7ba5-63cd-8d39-cbe9-57225d4ab8c6@msapiro.net>
References: <1669300261.35140.1487366919642@EG2167APRSF>
 <6D899064-C2BD-442E-96B9-D628BDFD669C@uwalumni.com>
 <07ec7ba5-63cd-8d39-cbe9-57225d4ab8c6@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <07C914CD-5E1D-4F2A-82B1-F525D46654B8@uwalumni.com>

How would I instruct the list to treat urgent messages like any other?

> On Feb 17, 2017, at 6:41 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> 
> On 02/17/2017 01:32 PM, Dominik Hoffmann wrote:
>> I get these messages from a particular sender who must have set his message to urgent. I have no influence over how these messages are sent. What must I do to my Mailman list, so the messages go through as originally sent and not in the form shown below?
> 
> 
> I may have missed this in my original reply. Are you saying that the
> message below came from the list? If so, then what is happening is the
> user is posting something with an Urgent: header. It is rejected by
> Mailman and the user then forwards the rejection notice back to the
> list, this time without an Urgent: header.
> 
> The original is not attached either because the user's MUA doesn't
> include it in the forwarded message or your list's content filtering
> doesn't accept message/rfc822 MIME parts.
> 
> 
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> 
>>> From: Customer Service <customer.service@*******.com>
>>> Subject: Re: ****** Order Confirmation [#1095286]
>>> Date: February 17, 2017 at 4:28:39 PM EST
>>> To: ********-owner@********.net
>>> Reply-To: customer.service@*******.com
>>> 
>>> Thank you for contacting us.
>>> We have received your e-mail. An ****** Customer Service Representative will respond to you shortly.
>>> -----********-owner@********.net Wrote -----
>>> Your urgent message to the******** mailing list was not authorized
>>> for delivery.  The original message as received by Mailman is
>>> attached.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dhoffmann%40uwalumni.com


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 18 01:35:10 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 22:35:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Amway Order Confirmation [#1095286]
In-Reply-To: <07C914CD-5E1D-4F2A-82B1-F525D46654B8@uwalumni.com>
References: <1669300261.35140.1487366919642@EG2167APRSF>
 <6D899064-C2BD-442E-96B9-D628BDFD669C@uwalumni.com>
 <07ec7ba5-63cd-8d39-cbe9-57225d4ab8c6@msapiro.net>
 <07C914CD-5E1D-4F2A-82B1-F525D46654B8@uwalumni.com>
Message-ID: <6020d1a9-27fb-047b-813d-b14677b41ef1@msapiro.net>

On 02/17/2017 10:17 PM, Dominik Hoffmann wrote:
> How would I instruct the list to treat urgent messages like any other?


Se my first reply at
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2017-February/081930.html>
which tells you how to modify Mailman/Handlers/CalcRecips.py to ignore
Urgent: headers.

If you don't have access to the Mailman code on the Mailman server that
supports your list, the answer is you can't. This is not a configuration
option. It can only be done by modifying the Mailman code.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From greg at headingup.net  Tue Feb 21 01:01:51 2017
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:01:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warming IP Addresses -- Gradually Increasing Email
 Volume
Message-ID: <CAOXbGWGy9d9Nea4YmxiCot-C-Yk5Y50oESAPqQcBx04KEnQetA@mail.gmail.com>

We have three mailman lists with over 20K members.  The lists are
subscription based which distribute content to members by email each
morning.

We need to migrate from our current server to a new one.  We will need to
change IP addresses as part of the migration.  This video suggests sending
small volumes of email initially and building the volume over time:

https://sendgrid.com/docs/Classroom/Deliver/Delivery_Introduction/warming_up_ips.html

?I'm sure sending 20K emails on day one would not make the ISPs very happy.

Does anyone know a way to warm up an IP Address while using mailman?  We
need to have a plan for this to complete our server migration plan.

Thanks, Greg?

From cpz at tuunq.com  Wed Feb 22 01:07:15 2017
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 22:07:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warming IP Addresses -- Gradually Increasing
 Email Volume
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWGy9d9Nea4YmxiCot-C-Yk5Y50oESAPqQcBx04KEnQetA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWGy9d9Nea4YmxiCot-C-Yk5Y50oESAPqQcBx04KEnQetA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c6c5070-fa15-7099-2649-75abed05e70d@tuunq.com>

On 2/20/2017 10:01 PM, Greg Sims wrote:
> We have three mailman lists with over 20K members.  The lists are
> subscription based which distribute content to members by email each
> morning.
[...]
> ?I'm sure sending 20K emails on day one would not make the ISPs very happy.

Have you talked to the ISP? The environment and connections also matter. One 
server on the end of a residential DSL is a bit different from a hosted 
instance from a large corporate system.

If nothing else and assuming a moderate business or academic environment, 
the mailman server would be sending everything to a local relay server 
(postfix/sendmail/exim/etc) and that would be sending the mail to it's 
destinations. If the relay server is at the ISP, definitely talk to them 
first; I don't think "warming" a connection will help. (And if you have your 
own relay and send to all destinations from there, the ISP's server isn't in 
the picture and they shouldn't care about the traffic.)

YMMV, of course.

Later,

z!


From greg at headingup.net  Wed Feb 22 02:59:57 2017
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 23:59:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Warming IP Addresses -- Gradually Increasing
 Email Volume
In-Reply-To: <2c6c5070-fa15-7099-2649-75abed05e70d@tuunq.com>
References: <CAOXbGWGy9d9Nea4YmxiCot-C-Yk5Y50oESAPqQcBx04KEnQetA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2c6c5070-fa15-7099-2649-75abed05e70d@tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <CAOXbGWFGggHHrBnK_c+DcMEDYFujbD90YnmRqRcPAMKU-_Ep9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for your feedback Carl.  Here is some additional information about
our environment.  We have a single server in a commercial data center
(Softlayer).  "Communicating" to the ISPs is a challenge.  No reply to
email and no way to discuss something like this on the telephone.  The only
answer is to construct a strategy that does not raise a "red flag".

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carl Zwanzig <cpz at tuunq.com>
Date: Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Warming IP Addresses -- Gradually Increasing
Email Volume
To: mailman-users at python.org


On 2/20/2017 10:01 PM, Greg Sims wrote:

> We have three mailman lists with over 20K members.  The lists are
> subscription based which distribute content to members by email each
> morning.
>
[...]

> ?I'm sure sending 20K emails on day one would not make the ISPs very happy.
>

Have you talked to the ISP? The environment and connections also matter.
One server on the end of a residential DSL is a bit different from a hosted
instance from a large corporate system.

If nothing else and assuming a moderate business or academic environment,
the mailman server would be sending everything to a local relay server
(postfix/sendmail/exim/etc) and that would be sending the mail to it's
destinations. If the relay server is at the ISP, definitely talk to them
first; I don't think "warming" a connection will help. (And if you have
your own relay and send to all destinations from there, the ISP's server
isn't in the picture and they shouldn't care about the traffic.)

YMMV, of course.

Later,

z!

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From weif at weif.net  Wed Feb 22 10:23:34 2017
From: weif at weif.net (Keith Seyffarth)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 08:23:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Warming IP Addresses -- Gradually
 Increasing Email Volume
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWFGggHHrBnK_c+DcMEDYFujbD90YnmRqRcPAMKU-_Ep9Q@mail.gmail.com> (message
 from Greg Sims on Tue, 21 Feb 2017 23:59:57 -0800)
Message-ID: <84fuj6b66h.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>

Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> writes:

> Thanks for your feedback Carl.  Here is some additional information about
> our environment.  We have a single server in a commercial data center
> (Softlayer).  "Communicating" to the ISPs is a challenge.  No reply to
> email and no way to discuss something like this on the telephone.  The only
> answer is to construct a strategy that does not raise a "red flag".

Greg,

I would think that a service provider that does not reply to emails in a
timely manner and does not provide telephone support is, in itself, a
"red flag" that this ISP does not want your business and does not care
about your reputation or theirs. I would start looking for a provider
that provides support and is willing to communicate.

Keith

-- 
----
from my mac to yours...

Keith Seyffarth
mailto:weif at weif.net
http://www.weif.net/ - Home of the First Tank Guide!
http://www.rpgcalendar.net/ - the Montana Role-Playing Calendar
----
http://www.miscon.org/ - Montana's Longest Running Science Fiction Convention

From greg at headingup.net  Wed Feb 22 10:33:42 2017
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 07:33:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Warming IP Addresses -- Gradually
 Increasing Email Volume
In-Reply-To: <84fuj6b66h.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>
References: <CAOXbGWFGggHHrBnK_c+DcMEDYFujbD90YnmRqRcPAMKU-_Ep9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <84fuj6b66h.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>
Message-ID: <CAOXbGWG1QokuQ+mTiEz2_C9TtzeKM5EsCNdk8XSuMiOy7J=oXA@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Keith,

The communications I have with my ISP (Softlayer) is fine.  The issue is
with AOL, Yahoo and others.  These folks are impossible to communication
with.

Greg

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Keith Seyffarth <weif at weif.net> wrote:

> Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> writes:
>
> > Thanks for your feedback Carl.  Here is some additional information about
> > our environment.  We have a single server in a commercial data center
> > (Softlayer).  "Communicating" to the ISPs is a challenge.  No reply to
> > email and no way to discuss something like this on the telephone.  The
> only
> > answer is to construct a strategy that does not raise a "red flag".
>
> Greg,
>
> I would think that a service provider that does not reply to emails in a
> timely manner and does not provide telephone support is, in itself, a
> "red flag" that this ISP does not want your business and does not care
> about your reputation or theirs. I would start looking for a provider
> that provides support and is willing to communicate.
>
> Keith
>
> --
> ----
> from my mac to yours...
>
> Keith Seyffarth
> mailto:weif at weif.net
> http://www.weif.net/ - Home of the First Tank Guide!
> http://www.rpgcalendar.net/ - the Montana Role-Playing Calendar
> ----
> http://www.miscon.org/ - Montana's Longest Running Science Fiction
> Convention
>

From cpz at tuunq.com  Wed Feb 22 11:03:44 2017
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 08:03:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Warming IP Addresses -- Gradually
 Increasing Email Volume
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWG1QokuQ+mTiEz2_C9TtzeKM5EsCNdk8XSuMiOy7J=oXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWFGggHHrBnK_c+DcMEDYFujbD90YnmRqRcPAMKU-_Ep9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <84fuj6b66h.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>
 <CAOXbGWG1QokuQ+mTiEz2_C9TtzeKM5EsCNdk8XSuMiOy7J=oXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12930e02-6b4e-9413-7e51-6ad98c6d353e@tuunq.com>

On 2/22/2017 7:33 AM, Greg Sims wrote:
> The communications I have with my ISP (Softlayer) is fine.  The issue is
> with AOL, Yahoo and others.  These folks are impossible to communication
> with.

Yes they are and there's not much to be done about it (issues with aol & 
yahoo have been covered extensively on this list, please check the 
archives).  It was not clear which ISP you were referring to so everyone 
assumes the closest one.

Assuming that mailman delivers to a real MTA (postfix/sendmail/etc) on your 
server and that sends the mail out, you need to make sure the new server/IP 
has proper a proper DKIM/SPF config and then look at the whitelist 
procedures at aol/yahoo/etc. You also need the latest mailman (2.1.23) with 
DMARC mitigation configs (also discussed on this list).

Later,

z!


From alexander at neilson.net.nz  Wed Feb 22 11:28:05 2017
From: alexander at neilson.net.nz (Alexander Neilson)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 05:28:05 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Warming IP Addresses -- Gradually
 Increasing Email Volume
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWG1QokuQ+mTiEz2_C9TtzeKM5EsCNdk8XSuMiOy7J=oXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWFGggHHrBnK_c+DcMEDYFujbD90YnmRqRcPAMKU-_Ep9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <84fuj6b66h.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>
 <CAOXbGWG1QokuQ+mTiEz2_C9TtzeKM5EsCNdk8XSuMiOy7J=oXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25BB767F-A886-477B-BF2E-79899079917E@neilson.net.nz>

Hi Craig

> 
>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Keith Seyffarth <weif at weif.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> writes:
>> 
>>> Thanks for your feedback Carl.  Here is some additional information about
>>> our environment.  We have a single server in a commercial data center
>>> (Softlayer).  "Communicating" to the ISPs is a challenge.  No reply to
>>> email and no way to discuss something like this on the telephone.  The
>> only
>>> answer is to construct a strategy that does not raise a "red flag".

Are you already using DMARC / DKIM to sign all messages? One of the mailop people from a big mail provider mentioned that if you have this configured and it has a reputation then provided you retain the same key and the other details the same the reputation you have will be tracked and follow that along. 

This obviously requires this configuration to be setup however if you have some time left before you decommission then you could get this in place to attract your existing reputation to the key and help (nothing is perfect but all of this is a numbers game)

While I haven't seen this talked about specifically on top of the above (in a belt and suspenders kind of way) keeping the same forward / reverse / EHLO name for your new server as the old (provided the old has these configured to your domain) this could provide another signal that this is the same system doing the same job just moved to a new IP Address. 

Nothing here will be perfect and if you have the time warming up the new IP (perhaps setting up the new server's MTA possibly needing different name in this scenario) and asking your existing server to pass off a small percentage of your email to that machine as an outbound relay and increase the number until close to all via the new server then complete the migration. 

I don't have a guide on the above myself as I haven't had to do this. But from all the advice I have seen on lists about this topic they seem to be ideas that will aid deliver ability. 

From weif at weif.net  Wed Feb 22 11:45:45 2017
From: weif at weif.net (Keith Seyffarth)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 09:45:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Warming IP Addresses -- Gradually
 Increasing Email Volume
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWG1QokuQ+mTiEz2_C9TtzeKM5EsCNdk8XSuMiOy7J=oXA@mail.gmail.com> (message
 from Greg Sims on Wed, 22 Feb 2017 07:33:42 -0800)
Message-ID: <84k28i9nt2.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>


> The communications I have with my ISP (Softlayer) is fine. The issue is with
> AOL, Yahoo and others. These folks are impossible to communication with.

That is much more understandable.

If you want to slow the rate of outgoing messages, talk to Softlayer
about possibly throttling your send rate for a while. How long will
depend on how often mailings are sent and how many of your subscribers
are on any given mailhost. If you really don't have a lot of subscribers
all on hotmail or all on Yahoo! or all on Gmail, then the throttling is
probably less of an issue.

Also check the current reputation of your sending IP address. If it
already has a developed good rating, and your messages are unlikely to
be flagged with a little more traffic from your mailing list.

Keith

-- 
----
from my mac to yours...

Keith Seyffarth
mailto:weif at weif.net
http://www.weif.net/ - Home of the First Tank Guide!
http://www.rpgcalendar.net/ - the Montana Role-Playing Calendar
----
http://www.miscon.org/ - Montana's Longest Running Science Fiction Convention

From greg at headingup.net  Wed Feb 22 11:56:35 2017
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 08:56:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Warming IP Addresses -- Gradually
 Increasing Email Volume
In-Reply-To: <25BB767F-A886-477B-BF2E-79899079917E@neilson.net.nz>
References: <CAOXbGWFGggHHrBnK_c+DcMEDYFujbD90YnmRqRcPAMKU-_Ep9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <84fuj6b66h.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>
 <CAOXbGWG1QokuQ+mTiEz2_C9TtzeKM5EsCNdk8XSuMiOy7J=oXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <25BB767F-A886-477B-BF2E-79899079917E@neilson.net.nz>
Message-ID: <CAOXbGWGiZRRrMvvWDV73XRRsxhyBbzq3mq0csk_bTEBTd3d_3w@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Alexander!  Yes, DMARC/DKIM has been up and running for years
now.  You have some good ideas here.

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 8:28 AM, Alexander Neilson <alexander at neilson.net.nz
> wrote:

> Hi Craig
>
> >
> >> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Keith Seyffarth <weif at weif.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> writes:
> >>
> >>> Thanks for your feedback Carl.  Here is some additional information
> about
> >>> our environment.  We have a single server in a commercial data center
> >>> (Softlayer).  "Communicating" to the ISPs is a challenge.  No reply to
> >>> email and no way to discuss something like this on the telephone.  The
> >> only
> >>> answer is to construct a strategy that does not raise a "red flag".
>
> Are you already using DMARC / DKIM to sign all messages? One of the mailop
> people from a big mail provider mentioned that if you have this configured
> and it has a reputation then provided you retain the same key and the other
> details the same the reputation you have will be tracked and follow that
> along.
>
> This obviously requires this configuration to be setup however if you have
> some time left before you decommission then you could get this in place to
> attract your existing reputation to the key and help (nothing is perfect
> but all of this is a numbers game)
>
> While I haven't seen this talked about specifically on top of the above
> (in a belt and suspenders kind of way) keeping the same forward / reverse /
> EHLO name for your new server as the old (provided the old has these
> configured to your domain) this could provide another signal that this is
> the same system doing the same job just moved to a new IP Address.
>
> Nothing here will be perfect and if you have the time warming up the new
> IP (perhaps setting up the new server's MTA possibly needing different name
> in this scenario) and asking your existing server to pass off a small
> percentage of your email to that machine as an outbound relay and increase
> the number until close to all via the new server then complete the
> migration.
>
> I don't have a guide on the above myself as I haven't had to do this. But
> from all the advice I have seen on lists about this topic they seem to be
> ideas that will aid deliver ability.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/
> greg%40headingup.net
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 22 13:07:28 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 10:07:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Warming IP Addresses -- Gradually
 Increasing Email Volume
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWGiZRRrMvvWDV73XRRsxhyBbzq3mq0csk_bTEBTd3d_3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWFGggHHrBnK_c+DcMEDYFujbD90YnmRqRcPAMKU-_Ep9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <84fuj6b66h.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>
 <CAOXbGWG1QokuQ+mTiEz2_C9TtzeKM5EsCNdk8XSuMiOy7J=oXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <25BB767F-A886-477B-BF2E-79899079917E@neilson.net.nz>
 <CAOXbGWGiZRRrMvvWDV73XRRsxhyBbzq3mq0csk_bTEBTd3d_3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a1c47199-2e78-cf29-beda-c53896c07922@msapiro.net>

The concerns Greg has are real. For example, a little over a year ago,
the server mail.python.org that hosts over 300 @python.org lists
(including this one) suffered a fatal hardware error on a Friday. With
much scrambling, we were able to get everything up by the next Monday on
a new server in the cloud, but with a different IP.

It was several weeks before we were able to set up feedback loops and
such with the various services such as AOL, Gmail, etc., which knew our
prior IP and get them to accept mail from the new IP without bounces,
greylisting, etc. One thing we did observe is if possible, when the ISP
has an IPv6 MX, make sure your outging MTA can use it as at least some
of the ISPs are more lenient about what they accept via IPv6.

Also, see <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030690> about signing up for
feedback loop reporting with the various ISPs. If you can do this in
advance for the new IP, this will help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From greg at headingup.net  Thu Feb 23 18:44:32 2017
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 15:44:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Plesk Migration -- Mailman Issues
Message-ID: <CAOXbGWHFuAwwT+wUAn8_yHQ9E=MCqkCUGAAtU+zqcHoE65gXFw@mail.gmail.com>

Plesk migration from one server to another has some serious holes including
sending list Welcome Messages to everyone on the lists that are migrated.
This is not an acceptable scenario as far as I am concerned.

The Plesk workaround is to modify the mailman code before the migration:

https://support.plesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000066705-Welcome-messages-to-mail-list-members-are-sent-after-migration

I try never to modify core packages like this.  Is this the only way to
ensure that all the members do not receive Welcome Messages?  If it is the
best solution, shouldn't the code be restored at some later point in time?

Thoughts? Greg

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 23 19:01:21 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 16:01:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Plesk Migration -- Mailman Issues
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWHFuAwwT+wUAn8_yHQ9E=MCqkCUGAAtU+zqcHoE65gXFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWHFuAwwT+wUAn8_yHQ9E=MCqkCUGAAtU+zqcHoE65gXFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f1c4d49-7213-a702-3d18-7631448d9260@msapiro.net>

On 02/23/2017 03:44 PM, Greg Sims wrote:
> Plesk migration from one server to another has some serious holes including
> sending list Welcome Messages to everyone on the lists that are migrated.
> This is not an acceptable scenario as far as I am concerned.
> 
> The Plesk workaround is to modify the mailman code before the migration:
> 
> https://support.plesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000066705-Welcome-messages-to-mail-list-members-are-sent-after-migration


I know virtually nothing about Plesk or their Mailman package, but it
looks to me from a brief look at the above that it's talking about a
migration process which creates a new list on the target and adds users
to it.

This is not a good way to move a list. The way to move a list is to copy
the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck file from the old server to the new. Then
welcome messages will not be an issue.

See <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030682>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From greg at headingup.net  Thu Feb 23 19:37:19 2017
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 16:37:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Plesk Migration -- Mailman Issues
In-Reply-To: <3f1c4d49-7213-a702-3d18-7631448d9260@msapiro.net>
References: <CAOXbGWHFuAwwT+wUAn8_yHQ9E=MCqkCUGAAtU+zqcHoE65gXFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <3f1c4d49-7213-a702-3d18-7631448d9260@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAOXbGWGP4XtA2V+p9yAic2OCPkPxKA=whwD03+=J3iTceSCMsQ@mail.gmail.com>

I understand this is the "right way" to do this.  Unfortunately, Plesk has
not written the code to make this happen as part of their migration
process.  However, you have given me an idea.  I think I will:

   - Make sure I have backups of all the lists ( have an rsync of the
   entire source server)
   - Delete our three lists from the source server
   - Perform the Plesk Migration to bring all of our domains to the new
   server
   - Add the three lists to the new server using the process you mention
   here

This allows me to use Plesk for most of the migration and manually move the
mailman lists - the "right way".

Thanks for the idea, Greg

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 4:01 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 02/23/2017 03:44 PM, Greg Sims wrote:
> > Plesk migration from one server to another has some serious holes
> including
> > sending list Welcome Messages to everyone on the lists that are migrated.
> > This is not an acceptable scenario as far as I am concerned.
> >
> > The Plesk workaround is to modify the mailman code before the migration:
> >
> > https://support.plesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000066705-
> Welcome-messages-to-mail-list-members-are-sent-after-migration
>
>
> I know virtually nothing about Plesk or their Mailman package, but it
> looks to me from a brief look at the above that it's talking about a
> migration process which creates a new list on the target and adds users
> to it.
>
> This is not a good way to move a list. The way to move a list is to copy
> the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck file from the old server to the new. Then
> welcome messages will not be an issue.
>
> See <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030682>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/
> greg%40headingup.net
>