From sean at rogue-research.com  Sat Apr  1 15:56:25 2017
From: sean at rogue-research.com (Sean McBride)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 15:56:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2 and 3
In-Reply-To: <3f5dd33e-fa1a-5961-bd99-823c6f600d49@msapiro.net>
References: <58DD27F4.3040706@yahoo.de>
 <3f5dd33e-fa1a-5961-bd99-823c6f600d49@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20170401195625.198870543@mail.rogue-research.com>

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 09:16:41 -0700, Mark Sapiro said:

>Mailman 2 is definitely end of life. I am the only one actively
>supporting it at this point and while I continue to offer help and fix
>bugs, it's not what I want to be doing.

Is there any planned date where security updates end?

Cheers,

Sean



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr  1 17:09:24 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 14:09:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2 and 3
In-Reply-To: <20170401195625.198870543@mail.rogue-research.com>
References: <58DD27F4.3040706@yahoo.de>
 <3f5dd33e-fa1a-5961-bd99-823c6f600d49@msapiro.net>
 <20170401195625.198870543@mail.rogue-research.com>
Message-ID: <24663aa2-7957-6150-1ac6-40935cf8fc9d@msapiro.net>

On 04/01/2017 12:56 PM, Sean McBride wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 09:16:41 -0700, Mark Sapiro said:
> 
>> Mailman 2 is definitely end of life. I am the only one actively
>> supporting it at this point and while I continue to offer help and fix
>> bugs, it's not what I want to be doing.
> 
> Is there any planned date where security updates end?


No. There is no planned date.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From phils at caerllewys.net  Sat Apr  1 22:00:35 2017
From: phils at caerllewys.net (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 22:00:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2 and 3
In-Reply-To: <3f5dd33e-fa1a-5961-bd99-823c6f600d49@msapiro.net>
References: <58DD27F4.3040706@yahoo.de>
 <3f5dd33e-fa1a-5961-bd99-823c6f600d49@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <fe3f5a3c-0fb9-4006-5e5a-7bfd4a554e80@caerllewys.net>

On 03/30/17 12:16, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 03/30/2017 08:44 AM, Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:
>>
>> However: What is the state of Mailman 2 at the moment? I think it is
>> still supported and developed. But will this change in the near or in
>> the distant future?
>
>
> Mailman 2 is definitely end of life. I am the only one actively
> supporting it at this point and while I continue to offer help and fix
> bugs, it's not what I want to be doing.

There's no Gentoo ebuild for mailman3 yet.  Hopefully that will change...


-- 
   Phil Stracchino
   Babylon Communications
   phils at caerllewys.net
   phil at co.ordinate.org
   Landline: 603.293.8485

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Apr  1 22:28:39 2017
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 22:28:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2 and 3
In-Reply-To: <20170330203548.7469f4ca@subdivisions.wooz.org>
References: <58DD27F4.3040706@yahoo.de>
 <3f5dd33e-fa1a-5961-bd99-823c6f600d49@msapiro.net>
 <054cb5fb-2a15-3dff-cb62-9666b3bc8d02@neurotica.com>
 <fd6927f6-c347-d801-c308-c749ffdeb963@msapiro.net>
 <c9d4d411-4bd8-f12a-dd04-df715b71c882@neurotica.com>
 <4f2710b5-76b0-55d7-f920-0fb16cc68958@msapiro.net>
 <20170330200807.4ddf0873@subdivisions.wooz.org>
 <8f7bdda5-913d-b270-537e-b9bacde6536e@neurotica.com>
 <20170330203548.7469f4ca@subdivisions.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <9eaab6c7-81c0-ef11-5dee-4d6e5dd89423@neurotica.com>

On 03/30/2017 08:35 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> Interesting.  I know there's a pretty clear division between components in 3;
>> can the web interface run on a separate machine and point to a remote
>> instance of Mailman?
>
> Yep!  It's somewhat important to keep in mind that the REST API of Core is a
> fully administrative API.  It can be protected by some basic auth secrets, but
> nothing more than that, so just make sure that the Core REST API isn't
> published on some public IP address and you should be fine.

   Ok, very interesting.  Thank you for the explanation.  Running the 
management code on a different system is something I could probably make 
myself swallow.  I'll have to decide at some point if the additional 
coolness of 3 is worth that hassle.  From what I've seen so far, it may 
very well be.  With the exception of the Node.js silliness, Mailman 
appears to be moving in a very good direction.

             -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

From carbonnb at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 10:18:00 2017
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 07:18:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bad Confirmation String to cancel Message that was
 too large.
Message-ID: <CAAZtbWFmwn8j03xUrGYO5-vKVnbQdEgsxq0U1Tz4h25eVYRejg@mail.gmail.com>

Good Morning MMUsers,

I have MM2.1.23 installed from sources on CentOS5.

I have a list that has a max message size of 20kb to encourage plain
text and trimming.

Recently some users have been getting the notice that their message is
too big, and when they click the link to cancel the post, the link
returns a page with a "Bad Confirmation String" error.

The latest was this morning. A user sent an email that was too big,
and almost immediately click the link in the email they received and
got the bad confirmation string.

I tried sending a large email to test and the confirmation string worked for me.

Looking in the vette log, I can see where the email was held, but I'm
not sure where the confirmation string is coming from. This is the
entry:

Apr 03 04:42:48 2017 (548) dba-OT post from USER at gmail.com held,
message-id=<CAEkqQpXMAvPkOXK-3O1Y16CFF8cVVs-Ry850nYBpcy73U2nsxA at mail.gmail.com>:
Message body is too big: 27563 bytes with a limit of 20 KB

The confirmation string from the email is:
93321f4b6ef46ce0148f5da147bda4c02a63f5c7

Any ideas what to look at next to try and figure out why this is happening?

This isn't the first time that users have reported that the
confirmation strings didn't work.

Thanks,
Bryan

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a
well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  3 13:59:38 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 10:59:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bad Confirmation String to cancel Message that
 was too large.
In-Reply-To: <CAAZtbWFmwn8j03xUrGYO5-vKVnbQdEgsxq0U1Tz4h25eVYRejg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAZtbWFmwn8j03xUrGYO5-vKVnbQdEgsxq0U1Tz4h25eVYRejg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <abc0d9ea-5bb2-09d3-5629-dc059483f5f9@msapiro.net>

On 04/03/2017 07:18 AM, Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
> 
> too big, and when they click the link to cancel the post, the link
> returns a page with a "Bad Confirmation String" error.
> 
> The latest was this morning. A user sent an email that was too big,
> and almost immediately click the link in the email they received and
> got the bad confirmation string.
> 
> I tried sending a large email to test and the confirmation string worked for me.
> 
> Looking in the vette log, I can see where the email was held, but I'm
> not sure where the confirmation string is coming from. This is the
> entry:
> 
> Apr 03 04:42:48 2017 (548) dba-OT post from USER at gmail.com held,
> message-id=<CAEkqQpXMAvPkOXK-3O1Y16CFF8cVVs-Ry850nYBpcy73U2nsxA at mail.gmail.com>:
> Message body is too big: 27563 bytes with a limit of 20 KB
> 
> The confirmation string from the email is:
> 93321f4b6ef46ce0148f5da147bda4c02a63f5c7


The confirmation string is the token in the pending database for the
entry for this held message. There is a script at
<https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_pending> (mirrored at
<https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/list_pending>) that can be used
to dump the pending database.


> Any ideas what to look at next to try and figure out why this is happening?
> 
> This isn't the first time that users have reported that the
> confirmation strings didn't work.


One possibility is the user's MUA which is rendering the confirmation
URL as 'clickable' is not linking to the correct URL.

E.g. a url like

http://example.net/mailman/confirm/list1/dc2cf48d519423a7ff9d96d138317fb4a57be2cd

might get folded so when clicked, it actually goes to something like

http://example.net/mailman/confirm/list1/dc2cf48d519423a7ff9d96d138317f

One thing to check is when the user gets the

Bad confirmation string
Invalid confirmation string: ...

response that the string is actually the exact 40 character string from
the email. What happens if the user clicks "re-enter" in the "Otherwise,
re-enter your confirmation string." line and enters the exact 40
character string from the email?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From fmouse at fmp.com  Mon Apr  3 13:28:09 2017
From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 12:28:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscriptions after DMARC fix
Message-ID: <1491240489.47379.130.camel@fmp.com>

Last month a Mailman (v2.1.18-1) list on my server got hit with a bunch
of bounces based on DMARC rejections from Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail
which honor "p=reject" in a DMARC record. The list had not previously
been configured to handle DMARC issues so at that time I
set?dmarc_moderation_action to "Munge From" which I assumed would solve
the problem going forward.

Bounce processing for the list is set to send 10 probe messages at 3
day intervals, and last night all of these addresses were unsubscribed.
It seems that probe messages to these addresses, which I believe come
from the list server's mailman address, were also bouncing. I would
assume that messages which come directly from our server and are not
reflected through a redirection or mailing list wouldn't be subject to
rejection based on DMARC policy.

Why would this be? What can be done to address the problem?

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "The first casualty when
FMP Computer Services |         war comes is truth."
512-259-1190          |            
http://www.fmp.com    |     -- Hiram W Johnson


From fmouse at fmp.com  Mon Apr  3 14:20:11 2017
From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 13:20:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscriptions after DMARC fix
In-Reply-To: <1491240489.47379.130.camel@fmp.com>
References: <1491240489.47379.130.camel@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <1491243611.47379.143.camel@fmp.com>

On Mon, 2017-04-03 at 12:28 -0500, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> Last month a Mailman (v2.1.18-1) list on my server got hit with a
> bunch of bounces based on DMARC rejections from Gmail, Yahoo and
> Hotmail which honor "p=reject" in a DMARC record.

Add comcast.net, msn.com and googlemail.com to the above list of
rejecting ESPs/address domains. I assume googlemail.com is an alias for
gmail.com.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "The first casualty when
FMP Computer Services |         war comes is truth."
512-259-1190          |            
http://www.fmp.com    |     -- Hiram W Johnson


From carbonnb at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 14:36:44 2017
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 11:36:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bad Confirmation String to cancel Message that
 was too large.
In-Reply-To: <abc0d9ea-5bb2-09d3-5629-dc059483f5f9@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAZtbWFmwn8j03xUrGYO5-vKVnbQdEgsxq0U1Tz4h25eVYRejg@mail.gmail.com>
 <abc0d9ea-5bb2-09d3-5629-dc059483f5f9@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAAZtbWGADqatft+XHwxZxCai_fgnJecdYpmXDeChmEOLn7cX6w@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Mark.  No Luck. :( Comments inline

On 3 April 2017 at 10:59, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 04/03/2017 07:18 AM, Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

>> I tried sending a large email to test and the confirmation string worked for me.
<snip>
>> The confirmation string from the email is:
>> 93321f4b6ef46ce0148f5da147bda4c02a63f5c7
>
>
> The confirmation string is the token in the pending database for the
> entry for this held message. There is a script at
> <https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_pending> (mirrored at
> <https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/list_pending>) that can be used
> to dump the pending database.

I don't see the confirmation string in the list's db even though I
still see the email in held moderation queue.

It's actually weird. There are 6 messages that are held in the db, but
only 2 in the moderation queue

> One possibility is the user's MUA which is rendering the confirmation
> URL as 'clickable' is not linking to the correct URL.

> response that the string is actually the exact 40 character string from
> the email. What happens if the user clicks "re-enter" in the "Otherwise,
> re-enter your confirmation string." line and enters the exact 40
> character string from the email?

There was no line wrapping that I could see. They forwarded the email
to me, and when I click the link, it returns the 40 character string
that isn't in the db.

Is there anything else I can check, or should I write this one off as
an anomoly?

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a
well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  3 15:01:03 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 12:01:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bad Confirmation String to cancel Message that
 was too large.
In-Reply-To: <CAAZtbWGADqatft+XHwxZxCai_fgnJecdYpmXDeChmEOLn7cX6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAZtbWFmwn8j03xUrGYO5-vKVnbQdEgsxq0U1Tz4h25eVYRejg@mail.gmail.com>
 <abc0d9ea-5bb2-09d3-5629-dc059483f5f9@msapiro.net>
 <CAAZtbWGADqatft+XHwxZxCai_fgnJecdYpmXDeChmEOLn7cX6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9535b2f7-5bdc-f8e7-e924-4b09866b3ac2@msapiro.net>

On 04/03/2017 11:36 AM, Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
>>
>>
>> The confirmation string is the token in the pending database for the
>> entry for this held message. There is a script at
>> <https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_pending> (mirrored at
>> <https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/list_pending>) that can be used
>> to dump the pending database.
> 
> I don't see the confirmation string in the list's db even though I
> still see the email in held moderation queue.


Did you give the '-m' option to the script. Without it, you won't see
held messages.


> It's actually weird. There are 6 messages that are held in the db, but
> only 2 in the moderation queue


Perhaps the admindb interface is not for the current mailman installation?

If you run the list_requests script from
<https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_requests> with the -l LISTNAME and
-v options, does it correlate with the admindb list?

Do the IDs in that output correlate with those in the list_pending -m -v
output?

Also, do the data/heldmsg-LISTNAME-ID.pck files correlate with the admindb.

If there are discrepancies, are there any exceptions logged in Mailman's
error log?


> Is there anything else I can check, or should I write this one off as
> an anomoly?


If the message is in the admindb interface, it should be in the
pending.pck, at least if it's recent. Older messages could have had
their pending confirmations removed after PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE (default
3 days).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  3 15:40:38 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 12:40:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscriptions after DMARC fix
In-Reply-To: <1491240489.47379.130.camel@fmp.com>
References: <1491240489.47379.130.camel@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <957c91aa-c84f-76cb-b97f-bb7fe4d64e7e@msapiro.net>

On 04/03/2017 10:28 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> 
> Bounce processing for the list is set to send 10 probe messages at 3
> day intervals, and last night all of these addresses were unsubscribed.
> It seems that probe messages to these addresses, which I believe come
> from the list server's mailman address, were also bouncing. I would
> assume that messages which come directly from our server and are not
> reflected through a redirection or mailing list wouldn't be subject to
> rejection based on DMARC policy.


They aren't "probe" messages in the sense of Mailman's

VERP_PROBES = Yes

because VERP_PROBES don't bounce for DMARC (see item 5 at
<https://wiki.list.org/x/17891458>, and they are only involved in
initially disabling delivery by bounce.

The issue is the user's delivery was disabled by bounce a month ago. At
that point further bounces don't matter. The process is controlled by
cron/disabled which sends a total of bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings
warning messages to the users at intervals of
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval.

If the user doesn't act on one of those warnings and re-enable delivery
before the number is exhausted, the user will be unsubscribed.

So basically, the users that were unsubscribed ignored the fact that
they weren't receiving list mail and ignored 10 messages informing them
their delivery was disabled and telling them how to re-enable it. Maybe
the list is better off without them?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From carbonnb at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 15:57:51 2017
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 12:57:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bad Confirmation String to cancel Message that
 was too large.
In-Reply-To: <9535b2f7-5bdc-f8e7-e924-4b09866b3ac2@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAZtbWFmwn8j03xUrGYO5-vKVnbQdEgsxq0U1Tz4h25eVYRejg@mail.gmail.com>
 <abc0d9ea-5bb2-09d3-5629-dc059483f5f9@msapiro.net>
 <CAAZtbWGADqatft+XHwxZxCai_fgnJecdYpmXDeChmEOLn7cX6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <9535b2f7-5bdc-f8e7-e924-4b09866b3ac2@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAAZtbWG2jr0AwR7PNCAA6jTFh5oh5cA0z9Hzg20v4iZcOsoKVg@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 April 2017 at 12:01, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 04/03/2017 11:36 AM, Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

>> I don't see the confirmation string in the list's db even though I
>> still see the email in held moderation queue.
>
>
> Did you give the '-m' option to the script. Without it, you won't see
> held messages.

Yes. (Down to 5 now)

$ ./list_pending -m -v dba-ot

cookie: e218b075f231a8aceeeae3bc9bb301b4328b0d79
    type: H
    data: 5640
    expiration: Thu Apr  6 06:56:58 2017
cookie: 628801c2354da0f1472f6a20a7fbe9e32f8dff48
    type: H
    data: 5637
    expiration: Wed Apr  5 14:01:54 2017
cookie: b63c013faa69b2d37d3d1c53580294a8fe3ed669
    type: H
    data: 5635
    expiration: Mon Apr  3 23:46:25 2017
cookie: 20ea7168e15b739d8b56b8a68057c86f6fdf11ff
    type: H
    data: 5636
    expiration: Wed Apr  5 06:23:30 2017
cookie: 10f908cac1d37bc935d215bcb51f74421b5cb236
    type: H
    data: 5638
    expiration: Wed Apr  5 17:43:59 2017

>> It's actually weird. There are 6 messages that are held in the db, but
>> only 2 in the moderation queue
>
> Perhaps the admindb interface is not for the current mailman installation?

AFAIK it's the only Mailman installation on the server. I've been the
only one who has done anything on this server in a long time (but that
doesn't mean I haven't messed something up :).

> If you run the list_requests script from
> <https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_requests> with the -l LISTNAME and
> -v options, does it correlate with the admindb list?

Yes. Both only have 2 messages.

$ ./list_requests -l dba-ot

2 dba-OT moderator request(s) waiting

Pending posts:
From: eptept at gmail.com on Mon Apr  3 04:42:48 2017
Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Turmoil on the Home Front
Cause: Message body is too big: 27563 bytes with a limit of 20 KB


From: ssharkins at gmail.com on Mon Apr  3 06:56:58 201v
Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Turmoil on the Home Front (Redux)
Cause: Message body is too big: 20749 bytes with a limit of 20 K

$ ./list_requests -v

2 dba-OT moderator request(s) waiting

Pending posts:
From: eptept at gmail.com on Mon Apr  3 04:42:48 2017
Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Turmoil on the Home Front
Cause: Message body is too big: 27563 bytes with a limit of 20 KB
        5639


From: ssharkins at gmail.com on Mon Apr  3 06:56:58 2017
Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Turmoil on the Home Front (Redux)
Cause: Message body is too big: 20749 bytes with a limit of 20 KB
        5640

> Do the IDs in that output correlate with those in the list_pending -m -v
> output?

Yes and no. One, 5640, is there. One, 5639, isn't and 5639 is the one
that had the problem with the confirmation string.

> Also, do the data/heldmsg-LISTNAME-ID.pck files correlate with the admindb.

Yes. There are only 2 heldmsg-LISTNAME-ID.pck files The IDs correspond
to the IDs after running ./list_request -v

$ ls ../data/heldmsg-dba-ot-*

../data/heldmsg-dba-ot-5639.pck  ../data/heldmsg-dba-ot-5640.pck

> If there are discrepancies, are there any exceptions logged in Mailman's
> error log?

Nothing in the error log except a couple of invalid listname errors
and an invalid arcive file request

>> Is there anything else I can check, or should I write this one off as
>> an anomoly?
>
>
> If the message is in the admindb interface, it should be in the
> pending.pck, at least if it's recent. Older messages could have had
> their pending confirmations removed after PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE (default
> 3 days).

Thanks for trying to help me out Mark. I do appreciate it.

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a
well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"

From fmouse at fmp.com  Mon Apr  3 16:03:41 2017
From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 15:03:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscriptions after DMARC fix
In-Reply-To: <957c91aa-c84f-76cb-b97f-bb7fe4d64e7e@msapiro.net>
References: <1491240489.47379.130.camel@fmp.com>
 <957c91aa-c84f-76cb-b97f-bb7fe4d64e7e@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1491249821.47379.173.camel@fmp.com>

On Mon, 2017-04-03 at 12:40 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> So basically, the users that were unsubscribed ignored the fact that
> they weren't receiving list mail and ignored 10 messages informing them
> their delivery was disabled and telling them how to re-enable it.

OK, so I'm in the clear to resubscribe these folks.

> Maybe
> the list is better off without them?

Actually, we try to be gentle with these folks and keep things as
simple as possible. Some of them are pretty non-techie and these
messages probably elicit a hormonal technophobia reaction. I'll just
resubscribe them.

What chaps my dookie is subscribers on AOL and other similar services
who don't bother to even _try_ to unsubscribe if they want off a list
and just hit "Report Spam" and I get an AOL TOS message from which I
have to extract the subscriber address. Not a great problem since I
have the subscriber address AES-encrypted into the Resent-message-ID
header, but still a PITA.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "The first casualty when
FMP Computer Services |         war comes is truth."
512-259-1190          |            
http://www.fmp.com    |     -- Hiram W Johnson

From fmouse at fmp.com  Mon Apr  3 16:21:12 2017
From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 15:21:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscriptions after DMARC fix
In-Reply-To: <1491249821.47379.173.camel@fmp.com>
References: <1491240489.47379.130.camel@fmp.com>
 <957c91aa-c84f-76cb-b97f-bb7fe4d64e7e@msapiro.net>
 <1491249821.47379.173.camel@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <1491250872.47379.183.camel@fmp.com>

On Mon, 2017-04-03 at 15:03 -0500, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> Actually, we try to be gentle with these folks and keep things as
> simple as possible. Some of them are pretty non-techie and these
> messages probably elicit a hormonal technophobia reaction. I'll just
> resubscribe them.

My list owner asks:

> And is there any way to clear those bounce histories? If we do it
> once right now perhaps everyone would be good again for a while.??The
> emails requesting "Click here to let us know you're alive" have been
> misinterpreted as spam or a malicious attack by many who see them,
> and I suspect that often they end up getting filtered out and never
> seen anyway. I can talk until I'm blue in the face about this to the
> list, but sooner or later people forget and panic again...

Hormonally-induced techno-alergic reaction!!

Good question! So we want to simply zero out all the bounce counts, and
possibly the notification counts for the whole list on a one-time
basis. Will turning off bounce_processing for a day or so do this?

I've encouraged Cindy Harris, the list admin, to join this list. She's
very tech savvy and although she doesn't admin Mailman on a server, she
asks good questions and deals with list management and tech support.
I've told her that Mark, Brad, Barry et. al don't bite or act like
tech-snobs! Cindy is an accomplished musician and helps manage a small
ISP in Pennsylvania.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "The first casualty when
FMP Computer Services |         war comes is truth."
512-259-1190          |            
http://www.fmp.com    |     -- Hiram W Johnson


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  3 17:39:49 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 14:39:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscriptions after DMARC fix
In-Reply-To: <1491250872.47379.183.camel@fmp.com>
References: <1491240489.47379.130.camel@fmp.com>
 <957c91aa-c84f-76cb-b97f-bb7fe4d64e7e@msapiro.net>
 <1491249821.47379.173.camel@fmp.com> <1491250872.47379.183.camel@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <72ad8825-ce60-0cf8-3991-b780c29c2d14@msapiro.net>

On 04/03/2017 01:21 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> 
> Good question! So we want to simply zero out all the bounce counts, and
> possibly the notification counts for the whole list on a one-time
> basis. Will turning off bounce_processing for a day or so do this?


You could turn off bounce processing for longer than
bounce_info_stale_after to try to ensure there are no "current" bounces
after turning it back on, but there is now a script at
<https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/clear_bounce_info.py> (mirrored at
<https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/clear_bounce_info.py>) which will
do it.


> I've encouraged Cindy Harris, the list admin, to join this list. She's
> very tech savvy and although she doesn't admin Mailman on a server, she
> asks good questions and deals with list management and tech support.
> I've told her that Mark, Brad, Barry et. al don't bite or act like
> tech-snobs! Cindy is an accomplished musician and helps manage a small
> ISP in Pennsylvania.


We'd be happy to have her join.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  3 18:06:07 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 15:06:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bad Confirmation String to cancel Message that
 was too large.
In-Reply-To: <CAAZtbWG2jr0AwR7PNCAA6jTFh5oh5cA0z9Hzg20v4iZcOsoKVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAZtbWFmwn8j03xUrGYO5-vKVnbQdEgsxq0U1Tz4h25eVYRejg@mail.gmail.com>
 <abc0d9ea-5bb2-09d3-5629-dc059483f5f9@msapiro.net>
 <CAAZtbWGADqatft+XHwxZxCai_fgnJecdYpmXDeChmEOLn7cX6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <9535b2f7-5bdc-f8e7-e924-4b09866b3ac2@msapiro.net>
 <CAAZtbWG2jr0AwR7PNCAA6jTFh5oh5cA0z9Hzg20v4iZcOsoKVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27820c28-5a5b-83d9-c00c-3834a80ec0e9@msapiro.net>

On 04/03/2017 12:57 PM, Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
> 
> Thanks for trying to help me out Mark. I do appreciate it.


Some of my prior replies may have been misleading. I just did some more
detailed looking and here's some info.

First, when a held message is handled via the admindb interface
(approved, discarded, rejected) the entry in the pending db is not
removed. This is probably why you have entries in the pending db that
aren't in the admindb interface.

The other side of this is if the user goes to the confirm URL and clicks
"Continue awaiting approval", the entry in the pending db is removed so
if the user goes back a second time, she gets the invalid confirmation
string message.

This can explain why there is a held message not in the pending db.

This can obviously come about from the user clicking "Continue awaiting
approval" and then going back, but conceivably it can happen if the user
"stutters" on the mouse and clicks more than once and possibly clicks on
the "Continue awaiting approval" button without really seeing that page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From carbonnb at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 18:26:55 2017
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 15:26:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bad Confirmation String to cancel Message that
 was too large.
In-Reply-To: <27820c28-5a5b-83d9-c00c-3834a80ec0e9@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAZtbWFmwn8j03xUrGYO5-vKVnbQdEgsxq0U1Tz4h25eVYRejg@mail.gmail.com>
 <abc0d9ea-5bb2-09d3-5629-dc059483f5f9@msapiro.net>
 <CAAZtbWGADqatft+XHwxZxCai_fgnJecdYpmXDeChmEOLn7cX6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <9535b2f7-5bdc-f8e7-e924-4b09866b3ac2@msapiro.net>
 <CAAZtbWG2jr0AwR7PNCAA6jTFh5oh5cA0z9Hzg20v4iZcOsoKVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <27820c28-5a5b-83d9-c00c-3834a80ec0e9@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAAZtbWHmgw2sCufW7uGTj6_ab0PTvQocwxhbH0cXLa96R0aqJQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 April 2017 at 15:06, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 04/03/2017 12:57 PM, Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for trying to help me out Mark. I do appreciate it.
>
>
> Some of my prior replies may have been misleading. I just did some more
> detailed looking and here's some info.

I've got new tools to help manage my Mailman install, so even if they
were misleading, it's all good.

> First, when a held message is handled via the admindb interface
> (approved, discarded, rejected) the entry in the pending db is not
> removed. This is probably why you have entries in the pending db that
> aren't in the admindb interface.

OK, that makes sense.

> The other side of this is if the user goes to the confirm URL and clicks
> "Continue awaiting approval", the entry in the pending db is removed so
> if the user goes back a second time, she gets the invalid confirmation
> string message.
>
> This can explain why there is a held message not in the pending db.
>
> This can obviously come about from the user clicking "Continue awaiting
> approval" and then going back, but conceivably it can happen if the user
> "stutters" on the mouse and clicks more than once and possibly clicks on
> the "Continue awaiting approval" button without really seeing that page.

I've gone back to the user and asked them. So for now, I'm going to
wait and see what they have to say.

B

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a
well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"

From zalezny.niezalezny at gmail.com  Tue Apr  4 10:32:17 2017
From: zalezny.niezalezny at gmail.com (Zalezny Niezalezny)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 16:32:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is it possible to moderate E-mail without webpanel
 ? using only e-mail commands ?
Message-ID: <CAKPGuG-kG00mjrVy7wbKAhRrDeZVFAcWkLePFv0khvHGzwAdDg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

is it possible to moderate Mailman newsletter E-mails without Mailman
Webpanel ?

So, user (administrator) sending newsletter e-mail to

list at example.com

and then mailman server returning message in the original form to show, how
it will look like.


If everything is fine then E-mail could be some how approved. Just like in
ezmlm.


Will it be possible to configure something like this ?




With kind regards

Zalezny

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  4 19:00:20 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 16:00:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is it possible to moderate E-mail without
 webpanel ? using only e-mail commands ?
In-Reply-To: <CAKPGuG-kG00mjrVy7wbKAhRrDeZVFAcWkLePFv0khvHGzwAdDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKPGuG-kG00mjrVy7wbKAhRrDeZVFAcWkLePFv0khvHGzwAdDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4c06052b-657d-cb3e-395d-2db05b914b7b@msapiro.net>

On 04/04/2017 07:32 AM, Zalezny Niezalezny wrote:
> 
> is it possible to moderate Mailman newsletter E-mails without Mailman
> Webpanel ?
> 
> So, user (administrator) sending newsletter e-mail to
> 
> list at example.com


Set the list so all posters are moderated so all posts are held.

Set the list's admin_immed_notify (under Notifications on the General
Options page) to Yes.

Then a post to the list will be held and a notice sent to the owners and
moderators.

The notice will contain 3 MIME parts. The first part is a notice about
the held message. The second part is the message itself. The third part
is a message that says:

If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact,
Mailman will discard the held message.  Do this if the message is spam.
If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header with the
list password in it, the message will be approved for posting to the
list.  The Approved: header can also appear in the first line of the
body of the reply.

There are two things to note about this. The message in the second MIME
part is the message as received my the list. It has not been content
filtered or decorated with header and/or footer, so it is not exactly
what a list member will see.

The other thing is "If you reply to this message" in the 3rd MIME part
refers to the message which is the 3rd part, not the whole notice. It's
not critical that you actually "reply", but that message part is From:
the list-request address with Subject: confirm xxxxxx where xxxxxx is a
specific confirmation token for the held message, so to approve the held
message by email, you need to send a "reply" To: the list-request
address with Subject: confirm xxxxxx and with the first line of the body
being

Approved: pppp

where pppp is the list admin or moderator password.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Tue Apr  4 22:36:55 2017
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 11:36:55 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscriptions after DMARC fix
In-Reply-To: <1491250872.47379.183.camel@fmp.com>
References: <1491240489.47379.130.camel@fmp.com>
 <957c91aa-c84f-76cb-b97f-bb7fe4d64e7e@msapiro.net>
 <1491249821.47379.173.camel@fmp.com>
 <1491250872.47379.183.camel@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <22756.22599.467491.707756@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Lindsay Haisley writes:

 > is an accomplished musician

Barry encourages participation by musicians!

Not official Barry-spokesman, but reasonably good at channeling :-)


From barry at list.org  Wed Apr  5 09:59:30 2017
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 09:59:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscriptions after DMARC fix
In-Reply-To: <22756.22599.467491.707756@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <1491240489.47379.130.camel@fmp.com>
 <957c91aa-c84f-76cb-b97f-bb7fe4d64e7e@msapiro.net>
 <1491249821.47379.173.camel@fmp.com>
 <1491250872.47379.183.camel@fmp.com>
 <22756.22599.467491.707756@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20170405095930.52b942c0@subdivisions.wooz.org>

On Apr 05, 2017, at 11:36 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Barry encourages participation by musicians!
>
>Not official Barry-spokesman, but reasonably good at channeling :-)

Don't forget the secret bassplayer.py handler!  You email it a drum pattern
and it replybots you a funky groove in E.

-B

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Mon Apr 10 12:29:14 2017
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 16:29:14 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scrubbing incoming mail (e.g.,
 strip bottom from top posters)
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz_Pe1Xs-FMSD0T88p9CW=2nkQ3j_2SWoxGA7xc+4kX-yQ@mail.gmail.com>

Soon I hope to get mm3 up and running and reactivate some old mm2 lists and
start new ones.

I anticipate voluminous messages from the many people I correspond with who
have no clue (in spite of my pleas) about the problems of top posting in
mailing lists, as well as html mail and voluminous attachments.

I will warn my subscribers about such policies, but I need a reasonable
solution to scrub mail and clean it up before it shows up on the lists.

I see that mm3 has lots of filtering settings to help the situation.  I
have several questions following, and I have provided in some cases what I
think the general answer is.  Affirmation, critique, or answers will be
greatly appreciated.

+ strip bottom posts?

    mm3: add-on custom or community-contributed filter

+ hold msgs with attachments for approval?

    mm3: true

+ create my own filter if existing ones aren't sufficient for my needs?

    mm3: true

+ hold any msg for approval if it doesn't meet my filtering requirement?

    mm3: true

+ bounce msgs failing certain criteria back to sender with a custom msg?

    mm3: true

I know Postfix has filtering customization, too.  Are there any recommended
guidelines on where to do various types of filtering?

  spam, blacklist: Postfix

  mailing list rules: mm3

Thanks.

Best regards,

-Tom

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 11 11:32:09 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 08:32:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SPAM alert on internal mailing list
In-Reply-To: <d3d05d75-b101-905f-7e8f-6014bcfcd4c7@python.org>
References: <VI1PR03MB31184D4E1F8EA625A04DD2F59A000@VI1PR03MB3118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <d3d05d75-b101-905f-7e8f-6014bcfcd4c7@python.org>
Message-ID: <58414ecb-2ad9-e5a5-19e4-d690a5f6eaf2@msapiro.net>

On 04/11/2017 08:31 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> postmaster at python.org can't help you with this. We have no knowledge of
> or control over your list.
> 
> I can tell you however that what is happening is your list is probably
> applying DMARC mitigations to list mail causing both the From: and To:
> addresses of the mail to be the same list address, and various Microsoft
> email services consider this to be a sign of "spoofing" and add the
> warning you see to the received message.
> 
> 
> On 04/11/2017 02:21 AM, Mariana Linhan wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> I have previously contacted you on this matter (emails attached), but
>> the problem remains and we need swift action. 
>>
>>
>> All emails sent by the Fare team (name.surname at farenet.org) and
>> others to fareinternal at no-racism.net seem to appear marked as SPAM
>> sometimes LOW and other times HIGH in all our farenet.org outlook
>> emails. See another example attached. 
>>
>>
>> We thought that this could be a problem with our server
>> (https://practical365.com/exchange-online/sender-failed-fraud-detection-checks-error-junk-email/)
>> and decided to contact the people that manage it to solve the issue.
>> They made changes to our DNS/mail services but the problem persists and
>> they said the following:
>>
>> "We have checked the settings on your email server and everything is how
>> it should be. Further looking into this issue showed us that you are
>> sending emails to a different domain which is not supported by us. You
>> need to contact the IT team that supports - @no-racism.net and whitelist
>> your domain - farenet.org. This should resolve the issue with the emails. 
>>
>> We are attaching a screenshot that the email left Farenet's email server
>> without issues."
>>
>> Can you please address the issue. We believe that only us can see this,
>> but if all other members are receiving the same message this is disastrous.
>>
>> Do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further queries.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mariana Linhan 
>>
> 
> 


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From luscheina at yahoo.de  Tue Apr 11 18:50:10 2017
From: luscheina at yahoo.de (Christian F Buser)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 00:50:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Correct host values in mm.cfg.py
Message-ID: <20170412005010232460.e5f7c82b@yahoo.de>

Hi all 

I have started to install Mailman on a Mac OS X Sierra (10.12.4) machine, using Macports. I installed the necessary python27 component and mailman itself so far. But then, I am stuck...

At the end of the mailman install process, I receive the message

"Be sure to verify the email and URL host settings in the Mailman configuration file (they may have been guessed incorrectly during the configuration step):
       /opt/local/share/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py"

The entries which the installation created automatically are: 

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mailman.fritz.box'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman.fritz.box'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

Of course, mailman.fritz.box is not a valid address, it is just the name of the machine followed by the router name... what else should I put there? The machine does not have an IP number or an address which is accessible from the internet. A setting like "mailman.localhost" seems not to work. The web interface does not need to be available from "outside". I will need to use an outside SMTP- and POP3 server for mail exchange, since the machine is behind a router with a dynamic IP address assigned by the access provider according to their needs. 

The "Include /opt/local/etc/httpd/mailman.conf" statement is in the httpd.conf file. 

Thank you, Christian  


-- 
Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland)      
Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 11 19:29:35 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 16:29:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Correct host values in mm.cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20170412005010232460.e5f7c82b@yahoo.de>
References: <20170412005010232460.e5f7c82b@yahoo.de>
Message-ID: <24b2167e-ba4b-4131-96c3-afc6aa82ace0@msapiro.net>

On 04/11/2017 03:50 PM, Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:
> Hi all 
> 
> I have started to install Mailman on a Mac OS X Sierra (10.12.4) machine, using Macports. I installed the necessary python27 component and mailman itself so far. But then, I am stuck...
> 
> At the end of the mailman install process, I receive the message
> 
> "Be sure to verify the email and URL host settings in the Mailman configuration file (they may have been guessed incorrectly during the configuration step):
>        /opt/local/share/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py"
> 
> The entries which the installation created automatically are: 
> 
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mailman.fritz.box'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman.fritz.box'
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> 
> Of course, mailman.fritz.box is not a valid address, it is just the
name of the machine followed by the router name... what else should I
put there? The machine does not have an IP number or an address which is
accessible from the internet. A setting like "mailman.localhost" seems
not to work. The web interface does not need to be available from
"outside". I will need to use an outside SMTP- and POP3 server for mail
exchange, since the machine is behind a router with a dynamic IP address
assigned by the access provider according to their needs.


DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST is the domain name associated with the addresses that
receive list mail. I.e. if a list posting address is list at example.com,
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST should be set to 'example.com'. It doesn't matter if
this is an external mail exchange server, but whatever the email domain
is should be the DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST value.

DEFAULT_URL_HOST is the host portion of the URL that will be used to
access the Mailman web UI. mailman.localhost should be acceptable if in
fact http://mailman.localhost/ URLs will work. Also, it's supposed to be
a "fully qualified" domain name, but I think just 'localhost' will work
for DEFAULT_URL_HOST.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Wed Apr 12 21:09:30 2017
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:09:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] owner-list change
Message-ID: <20170413010930.GA5370@panix.com>


I want to change the alias from owner to not_owner or anything else.

I changed the alias file and expect some kind of breakage.

I can use a recommendation


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 12 22:54:12 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 19:54:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] owner-list change
In-Reply-To: <20170413010930.GA5370@panix.com>
References: <20170413010930.GA5370@panix.com>
Message-ID: <dc76280f-9c29-a9c6-7a5f-caf534cad0c9@msapiro.net>

On 4/12/17 6:09 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> 
> I want to change the alias from owner to not_owner or anything else.
> 
> I changed the alias file and expect some kind of breakage.
> 
> I can use a recommendation


If you're looking at an alias like

mailman-owner:       "|/path/to/mail/mailman owner mailman"

you can change the "mailman-owner" part to anything you want.

If you are also looking at virtual mappings, you need to tweak them too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dangtran04 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 12:56:22 2017
From: dangtran04 at gmail.com (Dang Tran)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:56:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering hyperlinks in body of message
Message-ID: <CAK90HyWMOqTLHzDrkGY+LX-URD=pQAShgos6JgFdG1+_vuNrnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all ? it appears some our lists are getting spam more frequently with
messages that contain hyperlinks from different members (possibly from
compromised emails).  Two questions please:



a)       Is it a good idea to block/filter out of messages that contain
hyperlinks?

b)       If so, how can this be done using spam filtering policy?



Thank you in advance for any insight.


Best,

Dang

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 15 08:53:09 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 05:53:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering hyperlinks in body of message
In-Reply-To: <CAK90HyWMOqTLHzDrkGY+LX-URD=pQAShgos6JgFdG1+_vuNrnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK90HyWMOqTLHzDrkGY+LX-URD=pQAShgos6JgFdG1+_vuNrnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <84822FB6-749F-4E7B-A3E4-6F8E17F09D30@msapiro.net>

On April 14, 2017 9:56:22 AM PDT, Dang Tran <dangtran04 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>a)       Is it a good idea to block/filter out of messages that contain
>hyperlinks?


If you mean hyperlinks in general, I think it's a really bad idea.

If you mean specific hyperlinks, e.g., with known phishing addresses, there are various MTA tools for this.


>b)       If so, how can this be done using spam filtering policy?


Mailman's spam filters work only on headers, not the message body.

See https://wiki.list.org/x/4030615



-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Sat Apr 15 12:23:30 2017
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 12:23:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] owner-list change
In-Reply-To: <dc76280f-9c29-a9c6-7a5f-caf534cad0c9@msapiro.net>
References: <20170413010930.GA5370@panix.com>
 <dc76280f-9c29-a9c6-7a5f-caf534cad0c9@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <65d0b635-46f2-f621-bb4d-6894e84e8f41@panix.com>

On 04/12/2017 10:54 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 4/12/17 6:09 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
>>
>> I want to change the alias from owner to not_owner or anything else.
>>
>> I changed the alias file and expect some kind of breakage.
>>
>> I can use a recommendation
> 
> 
> If you're looking at an alias like
> 
> mailman-owner:       "|/path/to/mail/mailman owner mailman"
> 
> you can change the "mailman-owner" part to anything you want.
> 
> If you are also looking at virtual mappings, you need to tweak them too.
> 

When you use genaliases it changes everything back.  How can I generate
the db file?  postmaps doesn't work

<hangout@***>: unknown user: "hangout"

[-- Attachment #2: Delivery report --]
[-- Type: message/delivery-status, Encoding: 7bit, Size: 0.3K --]

Reporting-MTA: dns; mrbrklyn.com
X-Postfix-Queue-ID: D26D7161330
X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; ruben@***
Arrival-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 12:21:52 -0400 (EDT)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; hangout@***
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user: "hangout"



-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Sat Apr 15 12:27:32 2017
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 12:27:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] owner-list change
In-Reply-To: <dc76280f-9c29-a9c6-7a5f-caf534cad0c9@msapiro.net>
References: <20170413010930.GA5370@panix.com>
 <dc76280f-9c29-a9c6-7a5f-caf534cad0c9@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <cfad77cc-3c1e-397b-16f0-e32dd2252435@panix.com>

On 04/12/2017 10:54 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If you are also looking at virtual mappings, you need to tweak them too.

where are those?

-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 15 23:30:39 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 20:30:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] owner-list change
In-Reply-To: <65d0b635-46f2-f621-bb4d-6894e84e8f41@panix.com>
References: <20170413010930.GA5370@panix.com>
 <dc76280f-9c29-a9c6-7a5f-caf534cad0c9@msapiro.net>
 <65d0b635-46f2-f621-bb4d-6894e84e8f41@panix.com>
Message-ID: <bd34c947-f418-6ec0-5f84-cc09fe0d5681@msapiro.net>

On 04/15/2017 09:23 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> On 04/12/2017 10:54 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> If you're looking at an alias like
>>
>> mailman-owner:       "|/path/to/mail/mailman owner mailman"
>>
>> you can change the "mailman-owner" part to anything you want.
>>
>> If you are also looking at virtual mappings, you need to tweak them too.
>>
> 
> When you use genaliases it changes everything back.  How can I generate
> the db file?  postmaps doesn't work

See below:

On 04/15/2017 09:27 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> On 04/12/2017 10:54 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> If you are also looking at virtual mappings, you need to tweak them too.
> 
> where are those?


Since genaliases actually changes your aliases, I assume you are using
Mailman-postfix integration as described at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-integration.html>.

To generate the aliases.db file without running genaliases, the command
is 'postalias', not 'postmap'

Iv you are using virtual mappings, you will have some setting for
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py, there will be
virtual-mailman(.db) file in Mailman's data/ directory along with the
aliases(.db) files and there will be a reference to data/virtual-mailman
in Postfix virtual_alias_maps. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html>.

Note: if you have virtual-mailman(.db) files and want to update the .db
without running genaliases, the command here is 'postmap'

Also note that you could arrange for genaliases to generate the things
you want, but that requires modifying the makealiases function in
Mailman/MTA/Utils.py to return the aliases you want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From paul at mosher.com  Sat Apr 15 11:53:39 2017
From: paul at mosher.com (Paul Mosher)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:53:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Command Question
Message-ID: <0LfzLR-1cF8zD2tOV-00pZRw@mrelay.perfora.net>

    I am an experienced user of Majordomo and am trying to get up to speed on
   Mailman.  My question has to do specifically with the Mailman EMAIL
   INTERFACE, not the WWW interface which seems to be pretty simple to use.
   However, the tech guy at the organization for which I am looking into
   Mailman wants to be able to use the EMAIL interface to (1) download a list
   of subscribers to a list and (2) add (not invite) subscribers to the list.

   As to (1), I had no trouble getting the list of subscribers using a "who"
   email command once I figured out that I have to use the admin password in
   the message and place the command in the SUBJECT LINE  of the email, as in
    Subject: who <admin password>

   However, if I move the command from the subject line to the message body
   (leaving the subject line empty), as in:

   Subject: <blank>

   (and in the message body:)
   who <admin password>
   end

   I get NO RESPONSE at all from the server -- neither an error message nor
   the correct result of the command, as if the my email is being discarded
   by the server.  And if  I do it this way:

   Subject: who request

   (and in the message body)
   who <admin password>
   end

   THEN I do get a reply but it is an error message:
   "You are not allowed to retrieve the list membership."

   which seems to me to indicate that the server is trying to interpret the
   subject line, sees the word "request" as an incorrect password, and then
   doesn't check the message body at all.

   According to the mailman documentation the command should work if it is in
   either place in the email:
   "Commands can appear in the subject line or the body of the message."
   [1]http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node10.html

   So that's my first question. What did I do wrong?

   (2) As to subscribing (not inviting) subscribers via email, my
   understanding is that adding subscribers via email is not possible.  Is
   that correct?

   Thanks,
   Paul

References

   Visible links
   1. http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node10.html

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr 16 11:50:11 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 08:50:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Command Question
In-Reply-To: <0LfzLR-1cF8zD2tOV-00pZRw@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <0LfzLR-1cF8zD2tOV-00pZRw@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <f320ee87-2934-3474-307a-b13514e5fed4@msapiro.net>

On 04/15/2017 08:53 AM, Paul Mosher wrote:
> 
>    However, if I move the command from the subject line to the message body
>    (leaving the subject line empty), as in:
> 
>    Subject: <blank>
> 
>    (and in the message body:)
>    who <admin password>
>    end
> 
>    I get NO RESPONSE at all from the server -- neither an error message nor
>    the correct result of the command, as if the my email is being discarded
>    by the server.  And if  I do it this way:


I have to look at this some more, but you should get a 'The results of
your email commands' response in any case.


>    Subject: who request
> 
>    (and in the message body)
>    who <admin password>
>    end
> 
>    THEN I do get a reply but it is an error message:
>    "You are not allowed to retrieve the list membership."
> 
>    which seems to me to indicate that the server is trying to interpret the
>    subject line, sees the word "request" as an incorrect password, and then
>    doesn't check the message body at all.
> 
>    According to the mailman documentation the command should work if it is in
>    either place in the email:
>    "Commands can appear in the subject line or the body of the message."
>    [1]http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node10.html


The most up to date version of this manual is at
<https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%202.1%20Members%20Manual>. I just
added a note to
<https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%202.1%20Members%20Manual#A3.2_The_email_interfaces>
about the body needing to be text/plain.


>    So that's my first question. What did I do wrong?


I'm a bit confused, but the message to this list to which I'm replying
was sent as a text/html only message with no text/plain part.

Commands in the body of a message to the list-request address must be in
the first plain text (text/plain) part of the message. Mt confusion is
if there is no text/plain part, you should receive a 'Ignoring
non-text/plain MIME parts' message in the 'The results of your email
commands' response.


>    (2) As to subscribing (not inviting) subscribers via email, my
>    understanding is that adding subscribers via email is not possible.  Is
>    that correct?


That is correct. The email interface for administrative tasks is limited
to approving/discarding held posts about which the admin has received a
notice.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jhs at berklix.com  Sun Apr 16 19:27:17 2017
From: jhs at berklix.com (Julian H. Stacey)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 01:27:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion: Add a new binary flag: "Discard [or
 bounce] Sender Posts
Message-ID: <201704162327.v3GNRHKl059187@fire.js.berklix.net>

Hi mailman-users at python.org
Suggestion: Add a new binary flag: "Discard [or bounce] Posts From Sender 
http://berklix.org/~jhs/help/majordomo/#discard_sender

Reason: A mailman list member got his address book harvested by a spammer,
twice spammed a mailman list I run, I removed list member, asked
member to rejoin with an address spammer did not know was subscribed
to list.  Another list member suggested I could instead personaly
moderate all future mail from the spammer harvested address.
http://berklix.org/~jhs/help/majordomo/#harvested

PS (ignore "majordomo" in URLs, I just havent moved text yet.)

PPS Thanks to Mark S & others for replies 22 Mar on "compare lists setup"
    still not got back to that - world spins too fast ;-)

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Munich, BSD Linux Unix Systems Engineer
 Reply below, Prefix '> '. Plain text, No .doc, base64, HTML, quoted-printable.
 http://berklix.eu/brexit/#stolen_votes  http://berklix.eu/brexit/#eu_passports

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr 16 20:47:31 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 17:47:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion: Add a new binary flag: "Discard [or
 bounce] Sender Posts
In-Reply-To: <201704162327.v3GNRHKl059187@fire.js.berklix.net>
References: <201704162327.v3GNRHKl059187@fire.js.berklix.net>
Message-ID: <6f60801a-a76c-f11d-edfe-d471705937fb@msapiro.net>

On 04/16/2017 04:27 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> Hi mailman-users at python.org
> Suggestion: Add a new binary flag: "Discard [or bounce] Posts From Sender 


How about setting the user to moderated and setting
member_moderation_action to discard?

If it's just this one (or a few) addresses, that might do what you want.
It wouldn't require moderator action on each post, but it's still an
admin setting, not a user setting. Obviously, if there are other users
who are moderated for other reasons, this won't work, but it woud
address a few of your objections in the "Could List Owners Set Moderated
Bit For Members Who Don't Want To Post ?" section in
<http://berklix.org/~jhs/help/majordomo/#harvested>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From cmupythia at cmu.edu  Sun Apr 16 20:50:21 2017
From: cmupythia at cmu.edu (Gretchen R Beck)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 00:50:21 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion: Add a new binary flag: "Discard [or
 bounce] Sender Posts
In-Reply-To: <201704162327.v3GNRHKl059187@fire.js.berklix.net>
References: <201704162327.v3GNRHKl059187@fire.js.berklix.net>
Message-ID: <1492390221121.64211@cmu.edu>

Couldn't you just do individuals subscribers  as a spam filter within the Privacy options?

Gretchen Beck
Carnegie Mellon
________________________________________
From: Mailman-Users <mailman-users-bounces+cmupythia=cmu.edu at python.org> on behalf of Julian H. Stacey <jhs at berklix.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2017 7:27 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Cc: Julian H. Stacey
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion: Add a new binary flag: "Discard [or bounce] Sender Posts

Hi mailman-users at python.org
Suggestion: Add a new binary flag: "Discard [or bounce] Posts From Sender
http://berklix.org/~jhs/help/majordomo/#discard_sender

Reason: A mailman list member got his address book harvested by a spammer,
twice spammed a mailman list I run, I removed list member, asked
member to rejoin with an address spammer did not know was subscribed
to list.  Another list member suggested I could instead personaly
moderate all future mail from the spammer harvested address.
http://berklix.org/~jhs/help/majordomo/#harvested

PS (ignore "majordomo" in URLs, I just havent moved text yet.)

PPS Thanks to Mark S & others for replies 22 Mar on "compare lists setup"
    still not got back to that - world spins too fast ;-)

Cheers,
Julian
--
Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Munich, BSD Linux Unix Systems Engineer
 Reply below, Prefix '> '. Plain text, No .doc, base64, HTML, quoted-printable.
 http://berklix.eu/brexit/#stolen_votes  http://berklix.eu/brexit/#eu_passports
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cmupythia%40cmu.edu

From jhs at berklix.com  Mon Apr 17 06:00:10 2017
From: jhs at berklix.com (Julian H. Stacey)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 12:00:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion: Add a new binary flag: "Discard [or
 bounce] Sender Posts
In-Reply-To: Your message "Mon, 17 Apr 2017 00:50:21 -0000."
 <1492390221121.64211@cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <201704171000.v3HA0A3s070955@fire.js.berklix.net>


Top posting is bad. 
Failing to indent prior text with "> " is bad.
Corrected below:

Gretchen R Beck wrote:
> Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> > Hi mailman-users at python.org
> > Suggestion: Add a new binary flag: "Discard [or bounce] Posts From Sender
> > http://berklix.org/~jhs/help/majordomo/#discard_sender
> > 
> > Reason: A mailman list member got his address book harvested by a spammer,
> > twice spammed a mailman list I run, I removed list member, asked
> > member to rejoin with an address spammer did not know was subscribed
> > to list.  Another list member suggested I could instead personaly
> > moderate all future mail from the spammer harvested address.
> > http://berklix.org/~jhs/help/majordomo/#harvested
> > 
> > PS (ignore "majordomo" in URLs, I just havent moved text yet.)

> Couldn't you just do individuals subscribers  as a spam filter within the Privacy options?

No.

- There's no automatic individual linkage between eg
	http://mailman.berklix.org/mailman/admin/test/privacy/spam
  & list member entries in eg
	http://mailman.berklix.org/mailman/admin/test/members

- Privacy options are controlled by admin, not list members.
  For multiple reasons in 
	http://berklix.org/~jhs/help/majordomo/#harvested
  the intent is to Avoid burdening admins to waste time for indivduals,
  turning their discard bits off & on.

- Intent is to empower members to disable & enable their personal discard
  options when they choose (perhaps just enabling for a few minutes if they
  normaly just read a list & rarely have something to post) .

  Those who still continued to emit spam could be removed as before, 
  but admin would also instead have the extra option of enabling
  list member's Enable Transmit Discard, & it would be in the right
  place where list member could personaly, without admin help Disable
  again to post, if wanted.

Summary:
In eg http://mailman.berklix.org/mailman/admin/test/members/list
next to column "mod" there would be a 2nd column eg "self discard".
- "mod" would as before be set by admin to block & store for review.
- "self discard" would discard posts from member, set by member.

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Munich, BSD Linux Unix Systems Engineer
 Reply below, Prefix '> '. Plain text, No .doc, base64, HTML, quoted-printable.
 http://berklix.eu/brexit/#stolen_votes  http://berklix.eu/brexit/#eu_passports

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 17 20:37:13 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 17:37:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion: Add a new binary flag: "Discard [or
 bounce] Sender Posts
In-Reply-To: <201704171000.v3HA0A3s070955@fire.js.berklix.net>
References: <201704171000.v3HA0A3s070955@fire.js.berklix.net>
Message-ID: <09305a43-dfaa-a27a-e653-83ca8b199ae8@msapiro.net>

On 04/17/2017 03:00 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> 
> Summary:
> In eg http://mailman.berklix.org/mailman/admin/test/members/list
> next to column "mod" there would be a 2nd column eg "self discard".
> - "mod" would as before be set by admin to block & store for review.

Or reject or discard based on member_moderation_action.


> - "self discard" would discard posts from member, set by member.


And presumably, unlike mod, this would also be exposed on the user's
options page.

In any case, thanks for the suggestion, but even if you submitted an
implementation, this would not be implemented in MM 2.1. I don't see
sufficient interest in this feature to justify implementing it in MM
2.1, and adding it to the list of features that need to be forward
ported to MM 3.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From karrageorgiou.giannis at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 21 00:53:31 2017
From: karrageorgiou.giannis at yahoo.com (giannis karageorgiou)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 04:53:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] externally stored attachments and bin/arch
References: <1916489939.6409430.1492750411812.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1916489939.6409430.1492750411812@mail.yahoo.com>

dear user support people,

I am managing some lists where all attachments are scrubbed and
stored externally 
(i.e the mailbox-format file contains only references).
 
yesterday I appended an older archive from the previous hosting
system to a current mailbox, run arch (with purge opt) and noticed 
that the attachments subdir in the pipermail dir was erased, so
all external files were lost! Is this the normal behavior? is there
a way to save the non-mailbox-stored files elsewhere to avoid
loosing them?

moreover, now that I looked into it, I got the impression that
older attachments are also purged from the other lists too. 
Is it  really so (possibly as side effect of the monthly 
pipermail re-indexing) ?

thanks beforehand for any insight
(and in general for your work)

GK

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 21 01:07:45 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 22:07:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] externally stored attachments and bin/arch
In-Reply-To: <1916489939.6409430.1492750411812@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1916489939.6409430.1492750411812.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1916489939.6409430.1492750411812@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8c94f0fd-bfed-0f7a-2aa2-f8342b818692@msapiro.net>

On 04/20/2017 09:53 PM, giannis karageorgiou via Mailman-Users wrote:
> 
> I am managing some lists where all attachments are scrubbed and
> stored externally 
> (i.e the mailbox-format file contains only references).


So you have scrub_nondigest = Yes or are you doing this some other way?


> yesterday I appended an older archive from the previous hosting
> system to a current mailbox, run arch (with purge opt)

I.e. bin/arch --wipe ?


> and noticed 
> that the attachments subdir in the pipermail dir was erased, so
> all external files were lost! Is this the normal behavior? is there
> a way to save the non-mailbox-stored files elsewhere to avoid
> loosing them?


What Mailman version is this? in all Mailman versions 2.1.6+, if the
list's scrub_nondigest = Yes, when bin/arch --wipe is run, the
attachments directory is saved as
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/attachments.


> moreover, now that I looked into it, I got the impression that
> older attachments are also purged from the other lists too. 
> Is it  really so (possibly as side effect of the monthly 
> pipermail re-indexing) ?


Nothing in Mailman does this automatically.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 21 11:14:11 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 08:14:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] externally stored attachments and bin/arch
In-Reply-To: <1065958911.2507516.1492759154607@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1065958911.2507516.1492759154607.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1065958911.2507516.1492759154607@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2714e747-057b-8f86-bec4-08aee2d2c1e9@msapiro.net>

Putting back on list.

On 04/21/2017 12:19 AM, giannis karageorgiou wrote:
> dear Mr Sapiro and all team, 
> 
> yes, it is "scrub_nondigest=Yes", did use "arch --wipe" and 
> version is 2.1.23. 
> 
> what is different from your description, is that the "attachments"
> is a subdir of LISTNAME, not of LISTNAME.mbox (only the
> single mailbox file is in the LISTNAME.mbox dir), so If I 
> did a cautionary "rm -fr LISTNAME/*" before running arch,
> (I don't really remember), it could explain loosing the 
> attachments subdir. 


If scrub_nondigest is Yes, bin/arch --wipe will move
archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments/ to
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/attachments/ so it will not be lost and
move it back after it removes archives/private/LISTNAME/*, but of course
if you removed it first by doing "rm -fr LISTNAME/*", it was gone and
there was nothing to move.

Note that doing "rm -fr LISTNAME/*" is not only a mistake in this case,
it is unnecessary in general because that's what --wipe does.


> anyway, I'll keep an eye on it and will mail back if I see anything
> strange that shouldn't be happening!
> 
> thanks for your (very) prompt answer
> 
> GK


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at tafn.org.uk  Sat Apr 22 08:04:12 2017
From: mark at tafn.org.uk (Mark T)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 12:04:12 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] forwarding  email to a mailman list
Message-ID: <000001d2bb60$8ec8e230$ac5aa690$@tafn.org.uk>

Hi can anyone tell me how do I use a forwarding 

Email  address on a members only mailing list 

to my email list

Only tried to do this  and just keeps saying moderated 

Have added the email to the list of members

And when I send a email  to the list just keeps saying the same message

Mark.


From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Sat Apr 22 11:26:13 2017
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 00:26:13 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  forwarding  email to a mailman list
In-Reply-To: <000001d2bb60$8ec8e230$ac5aa690$@tafn.org.uk>
References: <000001d2bb60$8ec8e230$ac5aa690$@tafn.org.uk>
Message-ID: <22779.30229.64928.242546@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark T writes:

 > Hi can anyone tell me how do I use a forwarding 
 > Email  address on a members only mailing list 
 > to my email list

This is definitely a list managed by Mailman?

 > Only tried to do this and just keeps saying moderated

What reason does it give for moderating the message?

Do you mean the original moderated message, or new ones?  Mailman does
not check the moderation queue and apply the new configuration to it.
Once a message is held for moderation, a moderator must explicitly
release it.  The new permission applies only to messages received
after the new subscription is activated.

 > Have added the email to the list of members

Have you checked your mail for a verification mail?  Most lists are
configured to send mail to a newly subscribed address with a "one-time
URL" registered to that address.  When you visit that URL, the mailing
list assumes you have access to that mail account, and activates the
subscription.

Also, some lists are configured to require moderator approval before
activating new subscriptions.

Evenif you are the list administrator, although you can bypass these
verification steps, it's theoretically possible that you didn't, and
the subscription is not yet active.

 > And when I send a email  to the list just keeps saying the same message

If you have verified as above (or the list is configured to bypass
them), check to make sure that you used exactly the same email.  For
example, the list cannot tell that "mailbox at mail.example.com" and
"mailbox at example.com" are the "same" address, even though they usually
deliver to the same place, and a human would assume so.  Also, check
for typos.

If none of the above applies, we definitely need to know what the
reason given in the error message from the list is.

HTH,

Steve

From Aaron.Smith at kzoo.edu  Fri Apr 21 15:15:40 2017
From: Aaron.Smith at kzoo.edu (Aaron Smith)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 19:15:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting implicit destinattion even though To: field
 is correct
Message-ID: <760e2664edd641d682f6f7b568c91300@KExchange02.knet.kzoo.edu>

                I just installed mailman 2.1.20 using the Ubuntu provided package for 16.04.
I'm setting this up as a replacement for an older mailman server.  Right now, the lists are just using the machine name for the addresses, but whenever I send a message to a list address, it gets held for moderator approval, claiming it has an "implicit destination".  The server name is (not really) mail01.example.com.  mm_cfg.py has DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST of "mail01.example.com", and I set up the necessary configuration to have the aliases generated (MTA=POSTFIX) and commented out the postfix_to_mailman.ph transport line in postfix.  However, if I send a message to testlist at mail01.example.com<mailto:testlist at mail01.example.com>, it is moderated for implicit destination.  Every single time.  And I KNOW that the To: field has the correct email address because I'm typing it in myself during a telnet session to port 25!  What am I  missing here?


From netravnen+mailman at gmail.com  Sat Apr 22 09:00:43 2017
From: netravnen+mailman at gmail.com (netravnen+mailman at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 15:00:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] forwarding email to a mailman list
In-Reply-To: <000001d2bb60$8ec8e230$ac5aa690$@tafn.org.uk>
References: <000001d2bb60$8ec8e230$ac5aa690$@tafn.org.uk>
Message-ID: <CA+cYV6sgu5xi5QTf0V7ocGr-z+q=oipby0VcZHsrGgOCNDSNEg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark

On 22 April 2017 at 14:04, Mark T <mark at tafn.org.uk> wrote:
> Hi can anyone tell me how do I use a forwarding
>
> Email  address on a members only mailing list
>
> to my email list
>
> Only tried to do this  and just keeps saying moderated
>
> Have added the email to the list of members
>
> And when I send a email  to the list just keeps saying the same message
>

Maybe under "Restrictions > Filtering of senders >
accept_these_nonmembers" and add the FROM email address to this list.
Is what you are looking for ?

/Christoffer

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 22 13:23:59 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 10:23:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting implicit destinattion even though To:
 field is correct
In-Reply-To: <760e2664edd641d682f6f7b568c91300@KExchange02.knet.kzoo.edu>
References: <760e2664edd641d682f6f7b568c91300@KExchange02.knet.kzoo.edu>
Message-ID: <b6d945a4-575d-f753-a295-75c4571315ea@msapiro.net>

On 04/21/2017 12:15 PM, Aaron Smith wrote:
> ... However, if I send a message to
> testlist at mail01.example.com, it
> is moderated for implicit destination.  Every single time.  And I
> KNOW that the To: field has the correct email address because I'm
> typing it in myself during a telnet session to port 25!  What am I
> missing here?


The addresses in any To:, Cc:, Resent-To: or Resent-Cc: headers are
lower cased and if the local part of any of these matches the list's
internal name (which should be the lower case list name, i.e. the list's
real_name attribute lower cased), you should not get an implicit
destination hold.

I.e., if the list's internal name it 'testlist' and the To: header
contains the address testlist at ... in any combination of upper/lower
case, the message should not be held for implicit destination.

When the message is held for implicit destination, look at the Message
Headers: in the held message view in the list's admindb interface. Do
they have the To: header you expect?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From heller at deepsoft.com  Sat Apr 22 13:39:24 2017
From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 13:39:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting implicit destinattion even though To:
 field is correct
In-Reply-To: <b6d945a4-575d-f753-a295-75c4571315ea@msapiro.net>
References: <760e2664edd641d682f6f7b568c91300@KExchange02.knet.kzoo.edu> 
 <b6d945a4-575d-f753-a295-75c4571315ea@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20170422173925.032EC7321A1@sharky3.deepsoft.com>

At Sat, 22 Apr 2017 10:23:59 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> 
> On 04/21/2017 12:15 PM, Aaron Smith wrote:
> > ... However, if I send a message to
> > testlist at mail01.example.com, it
> > is moderated for implicit destination.  Every single time.  And I
> > KNOW that the To: field has the correct email address because I'm
> > typing it in myself during a telnet session to port 25!  What am I
> > missing here?
> 
> 
> The addresses in any To:, Cc:, Resent-To: or Resent-Cc: headers are
> lower cased and if the local part of any of these matches the list's
> internal name (which should be the lower case list name, i.e. the list's
> real_name attribute lower cased), you should not get an implicit
> destination hold.
> 
> I.e., if the list's internal name it 'testlist' and the To: header
> contains the address testlist at ... in any combination of upper/lower
> case, the message should not be held for implicit destination.
> 
> When the message is held for implicit destination, look at the Message
> Headers: in the held message view in the list's admindb interface. Do
> they have the To: header you expect?

Since the OP is using a "telnet session to port 25" I wonder if he is 
confusing an *envelope header" with a message header.

If in the "telnet session to port 25" he is typing:

RCPT To testlist at mail01.example.com

And *failing* to include in the DATA section a line like:

To: testlist at mail01.example.com

Even though the RCPT To is correct, *mailman* still needs the 
"To: testlist at mail01.example.com" *in the message itself* (in the header in 
the DATA part).

> 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller at deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                                                                                                              

From james at dorydesign.com  Sat Apr 22 22:30:56 2017
From: james at dorydesign.com (Jim Dory)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 18:30:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces SMTP error 554
Message-ID: <CAKhfoy1maEB6kZXp47taCes=y8w28gttPQ_Jwo=Nk0sAGkYTaA@mail.gmail.com>

I have a couple members of our list whose remote mail servers reject some
of our messages because of what appears to be text formatting in the
messages. Usually MS Office formatting. I get a bounce back ala:

"host mtaonline.net.mx1.greymail.rcimx.net [208.80.206.74]
    SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
    554 Failed: Malformed MIME field: X-Ham-Report:
    Spam detection software, running on the system "
gandalf.nomekennelclub.com", has NOT identified this incoming email as
spam.  The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or
label similar future email.  If you have any questions, see root\@localhost
for details.  Content preview:
     blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important;
border-left:1px #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important;
background-color:white    !important; } 3 topping 19 inch pizza$20.00 2
chicken fajitas and a sala [0xC2] ..."

In googling, it seems I found others have problems with the [OxC2] type
formatting as well. Just curious if there's much I can do about it or just
ignore these bounces.

Here's the original source of that particular message:

Sent from My iPhone
7=C2=A0 ------=_Part_2280092_117074804.1492908307810 Content-Type:
text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <html xmlns="
http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[if gte mso
9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><body>
<style type="text/css" scoped> blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left:
0 !important; border-left:1px #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex
!important; background-color:white !important; } </style>3 topping 19 inch
pizza<div>$20.00</div><div><br></div><div>2 chicken fajitas and a
salad&nbsp;</div><div>$12.00</div><div><br></div><div>Bacon cheese
burger&nbsp;</div><div>$10.00</div><div><br></div><div>Nome
Nachos&nbsp;</div><div>$12.00</div><div><br></div><div>443-7992<br><br><br>Sent
from My iPhone 7&nbsp;</div> </body></html>
------=_Part_2280092_117074804.1492908307810--
--===============6170515499548786613== Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 22 23:47:28 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 20:47:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces SMTP error 554
In-Reply-To: <CAKhfoy1maEB6kZXp47taCes=y8w28gttPQ_Jwo=Nk0sAGkYTaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhfoy1maEB6kZXp47taCes=y8w28gttPQ_Jwo=Nk0sAGkYTaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41e7c346-2cfe-9474-ddfe-10484f66a1f2@msapiro.net>

On 04/22/2017 07:30 PM, Jim Dory wrote:
> I have a couple members of our list whose remote mail servers reject some
> of our messages because of what appears to be text formatting in the
> messages. Usually MS Office formatting. I get a bounce back ala:
> 
> "host mtaonline.net.mx1.greymail.rcimx.net [208.80.206.74]
>     SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
>     554 Failed: Malformed MIME field: X-Ham-Report:
>     Spam detection software, running on the system "
> gandalf.nomekennelclub.com", has NOT identified this incoming email as
> spam.  The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or
> label similar future email.  If you have any questions, see root\@localhost
> for details.  Content preview:
>      blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important;
> border-left:1px #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important;
> background-color:white    !important; } 3 topping 19 inch pizza$20.00 2
> chicken fajitas and a sala [0xC2] ..."


It looks to me that the issue causing the bounce is not the content of
the message body, but rather it is that spam detection software running
in some MTA in the delivery chain is adding the headers something like

X-Ham-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system
 "gandalf.nomekennelclub.com", has NOT identified this incoming email as
 spam.  The original message has been attached to this so you can view
 it or label similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
 root\@localhost for details.
Content preview: blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0
 !important; border-left:1px #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex
 !important; background-color:white    !important; } 3 topping 19 inch
 pizza$20.00 2 chicken fajitas and a sala [0xC2] ..."

to the message and the added headers are either non-compliant because
they are too long or not properly folded or contain non-ascii characters.

It may be that whatever doing this is rendering the HTML body for the
Content preview: and turning the &nbsp; html entities into utf-8 0xC2
0xA0 which is the two-byte utf-8 representation of the "no break space",
but if it is putting those bytes (represented perhaps as "[0xC2] ...")
into a Content preview: header, that is definitely a problem and
something at gandalf.nomekennelclub.com is not doing the right thing.


> In googling, it seems I found others have problems with the [OxC2] type
> formatting as well. Just curious if there's much I can do about it or just
> ignore these bounces.


If you don't control gandalf.nomekennelclub.com, there's probably not
much you can do beyond ignoring the bounces if they're infrequent enough
that user's delivery isn't being disabled (or raise
bounce_score_threshold if necessary)


> Here's the original source of that particular message:
> 
> Sent from My iPhone
> 7=C2=A0 ------=_Part_2280092_117074804.1492908307810 Content-Type:


It's hard to tell a lot from this without seeing the actual raw message
without it's being wrapped, folded, whatever by your MUA. Note that the
initial "7=C2=A0 " part looks like a quoted-printable encoding,
presumably from the text/plain alternative part that corresponds to the
"7&nbsp;</div> " at the end of the html alternative part below.


> text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <html xmlns="
> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
> xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[if gte mso
> 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><body>
> <style type="text/css" scoped> blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left:
> 0 !important; border-left:1px #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex
> !important; background-color:white !important; } </style>3 topping 19 inch
> pizza<div>$20.00</div><div><br></div><div>2 chicken fajitas and a
> salad&nbsp;</div><div>$12.00</div><div><br></div><div>Bacon cheese
> burger&nbsp;</div><div>$10.00</div><div><br></div><div>Nome
> Nachos&nbsp;</div><div>$12.00</div><div><br></div><div>443-7992<br><br><br>Sent
> from My iPhone 7&nbsp;</div> </body></html>
> ------=_Part_2280092_117074804.1492908307810--
> --===============6170515499548786613== Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Disposition: inline

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From james at dorydesign.com  Sun Apr 23 00:08:42 2017
From: james at dorydesign.com (Jim Dory)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 20:08:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces SMTP error 554
In-Reply-To: <41e7c346-2cfe-9474-ddfe-10484f66a1f2@msapiro.net>
References: <CAKhfoy1maEB6kZXp47taCes=y8w28gttPQ_Jwo=Nk0sAGkYTaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41e7c346-2cfe-9474-ddfe-10484f66a1f2@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAKhfoy145W_GefKda7VBQK6YEav7wVBDRc5n7-WaGx7T7BH76w@mail.gmail.com>

I do have control over gandalf - a VPS server (so that much, at least). Not
sure how I would obtain an "actual raw message" other than what I received
from the sender as a subscriber myself. The server uses Exim and is a
CPanel installation.

Seems like I get these bounces a couple a day and so far not often enough
increment to suspend the guys that these are bounced from.

thanks for your help!  /jim

On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 7:47 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 04/22/2017 07:30 PM, Jim Dory wrote:
> > I have a couple members of our list whose remote mail servers reject some
> > of our messages because of what appears to be text formatting in the
> > messages. Usually MS Office formatting. I get a bounce back ala:
> >
> > "host mtaonline.net.mx1.greymail.rcimx.net [208.80.206.74]
> >     SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
> >     554 Failed: Malformed MIME field: X-Ham-Report:
> >     Spam detection software, running on the system "
> > gandalf.nomekennelclub.com", has NOT identified this incoming email as
> > spam.  The original message has been attached to this so you can view it
> or
> > label similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
> root\@localhost
> > for details.  Content preview:
> >      blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important;
> > border-left:1px #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important;
> > background-color:white    !important; } 3 topping 19 inch pizza$20.00 2
> > chicken fajitas and a sala [0xC2] ..."
>
>
> It looks to me that the issue causing the bounce is not the content of
> the message body, but rather it is that spam detection software running
> in some MTA in the delivery chain is adding the headers something like
>
> X-Ham-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system
>  "gandalf.nomekennelclub.com", has NOT identified this incoming email as
>  spam.  The original message has been attached to this so you can view
>  it or label similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
>  root\@localhost for details.
> Content preview: blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0
>  !important; border-left:1px #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex
>  !important; background-color:white    !important; } 3 topping 19 inch
>  pizza$20.00 2 chicken fajitas and a sala [0xC2] ..."
>
> to the message and the added headers are either non-compliant because
> they are too long or not properly folded or contain non-ascii characters.
>
> It may be that whatever doing this is rendering the HTML body for the
> Content preview: and turning the &nbsp; html entities into utf-8 0xC2
> 0xA0 which is the two-byte utf-8 representation of the "no break space",
> but if it is putting those bytes (represented perhaps as "[0xC2] ...")
> into a Content preview: header, that is definitely a problem and
> something at gandalf.nomekennelclub.com is not doing the right thing.
>
>
> > In googling, it seems I found others have problems with the [OxC2] type
> > formatting as well. Just curious if there's much I can do about it or
> just
> > ignore these bounces.
>
>
> If you don't control gandalf.nomekennelclub.com, there's probably not
> much you can do beyond ignoring the bounces if they're infrequent enough
> that user's delivery isn't being disabled (or raise
> bounce_score_threshold if necessary)
>
>
> > Here's the original source of that particular message:
> >
> > Sent from My iPhone
> > 7=C2=A0 ------=_Part_2280092_117074804.1492908307810 Content-Type:
>
>
> It's hard to tell a lot from this without seeing the actual raw message
> without it's being wrapped, folded, whatever by your MUA. Note that the
> initial "7=C2=A0 " part looks like a quoted-printable encoding,
> presumably from the text/plain alternative part that corresponds to the
> "7&nbsp;</div> " at the end of the html alternative part below.
>
>
> > text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <html xmlns="
> > http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
> > xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[if gte mso
> > 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>96<
> /o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><
> ![endif]--></head><body>
> > <style type="text/css" scoped> blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted {
> margin-left:
> > 0 !important; border-left:1px #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex
> > !important; background-color:white !important; } </style>3 topping 19
> inch
> > pizza<div>$20.00</div><div><br></div><div>2 chicken fajitas and a
> > salad&nbsp;</div><div>$12.00</div><div><br></div><div>Bacon cheese
> > burger&nbsp;</div><div>$10.00</div><div><br></div><div>Nome
> > Nachos&nbsp;</div><div>$12.00</div><div><br></div><div>443-
> 7992<br><br><br>Sent
> > from My iPhone 7&nbsp;</div> </body></html>
> > ------=_Part_2280092_117074804.1492908307810--
> > --===============6170515499548786613== Content-Type: text/plain;
> > charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > Content-Disposition: inline
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/
> james%40dorydesign.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr 23 00:48:19 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 21:48:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces SMTP error 554
In-Reply-To: <CAKhfoy145W_GefKda7VBQK6YEav7wVBDRc5n7-WaGx7T7BH76w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhfoy1maEB6kZXp47taCes=y8w28gttPQ_Jwo=Nk0sAGkYTaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41e7c346-2cfe-9474-ddfe-10484f66a1f2@msapiro.net>
 <CAKhfoy145W_GefKda7VBQK6YEav7wVBDRc5n7-WaGx7T7BH76w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d975d1d4-48c2-40fb-9211-ef7b6a29874b@msapiro.net>

On 04/22/2017 09:08 PM, Jim Dory wrote:
> I do have control over gandalf - a VPS server (so that much, at least). Not
> sure how I would obtain an "actual raw message" other than what I received
> from the sender as a subscriber myself. 


The entire raw message you received from the list would be fine. It
appears that you are using googlemail. If this is the case, if you are
viewing the message, click the downward triangle "more" icon next to the
"reply" icon near the upper right (not the one in the toolbar above
that) and select "show original". That text is what I'd like to see in
its entirety and without being folded or wrapped.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Aaron.Smith at kzoo.edu  Mon Apr 24 09:07:06 2017
From: Aaron.Smith at kzoo.edu (Aaron Smith)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:07:06 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting implicit destinattion even though To:
 field is correct
In-Reply-To: <20170422173925.032EC7321A1@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
References: <760e2664edd641d682f6f7b568c91300@KExchange02.knet.kzoo.edu>
 <b6d945a4-575d-f753-a295-75c4571315ea@msapiro.net>
 <20170422173925.032EC7321A1@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
Message-ID: <b3f03c192edb4a30a11eee4591169920@KExchange02.knet.kzoo.edu>

*FacePalm*  Well...that's embarrassing.  You are, of course, completely right.  I forgot to put the actual To: header in there.
Nothing to see here folks.....move along...move along....


-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+aaron.smith=kzoo.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of Robert Heller
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 1:39 PM
To: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Getting implicit destinattion even though To: field is correct

At Sat, 22 Apr 2017 10:23:59 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> 
> On 04/21/2017 12:15 PM, Aaron Smith wrote:
> > ... However, if I send a message to
> > testlist at mail01.example.com, it
> > is moderated for implicit destination.  Every single time.  And I 
> > KNOW that the To: field has the correct email address because I'm 
> > typing it in myself during a telnet session to port 25!  What am I 
> > missing here?
> 
> 
> The addresses in any To:, Cc:, Resent-To: or Resent-Cc: headers are 
> lower cased and if the local part of any of these matches the list's 
> internal name (which should be the lower case list name, i.e. the 
> list's real_name attribute lower cased), you should not get an 
> implicit destination hold.
> 
> I.e., if the list's internal name it 'testlist' and the To: header 
> contains the address testlist at ... in any combination of upper/lower 
> case, the message should not be held for implicit destination.
> 
> When the message is held for implicit destination, look at the Message
> Headers: in the held message view in the list's admindb interface. Do 
> they have the To: header you expect?

Since the OP is using a "telnet session to port 25" I wonder if he is confusing an *envelope header" with a message header.

If in the "telnet session to port 25" he is typing:

RCPT To testlist at mail01.example.com

And *failing* to include in the DATA section a line like:

To: testlist at mail01.example.com

Even though the RCPT To is correct, *mailman* still needs the
"To: testlist at mail01.example.com" *in the message itself* (in the header in the DATA part).

> 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller at deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                                                                                                              
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/aaron.smith%40kzoo.edu

From kamflyer at shaw.ca  Mon Apr 24 23:30:16 2017
From: kamflyer at shaw.ca (Rob Dover)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 20:30:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to slow down delivery rate
Message-ID: <2D082140-8A80-4429-AED8-EFE1879D7DCE@shaw.ca>

I run a couple of small lists and for some time have been getting bounces from my outgoing server saying I am exceeding the maximum # of emails per hour.

?????

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a temporary error. The following address(es) deferred:

 address at domain.ca
   Domain mydomain.ca has exceeded the max emails per hour (112/100 (112%)) allowed.  Message will be reattempted later

?????

I have no control over the outgoing server and only minimal control over the Mailman installation. Its on a web host. The emails do eventually go through but I get notifications for every single one that is deferred.

Is there any way I can slow down the delivery rate so it is below the 100 / hour threshold?

Thanks -Rob-

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 25 00:14:20 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 21:14:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to slow down delivery rate
In-Reply-To: <2D082140-8A80-4429-AED8-EFE1879D7DCE@shaw.ca>
References: <2D082140-8A80-4429-AED8-EFE1879D7DCE@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <9283d635-725b-6339-d857-705b4cee4777@msapiro.net>

On 4/24/17 8:30 PM, Rob Dover wrote:
> I run a couple of small lists and for some time have been getting bounces from my outgoing server saying I am exceeding the maximum # of emails per hour.
> 
...>
> I have no control over the outgoing server and only minimal control over the Mailman installation. Its on a web host. The emails do eventually go through but I get notifications for every single one that is deferred.
> 
> Is there any way I can slow down the delivery rate so it is below the 100 / hour threshold?


Only if you have the ability to patch Mailman. See
<https://wiki.list.org/x/4030607> for a discussion of this and a
throttle.patch.

Note that if this is the web host's Mailman and outgoing mail server,
this service is only viable for lists of fewer than 100 subscribers or
fewer than 50 if there can be 2 posts in an hour, or ...

You could try negotiating with them over this, or find a more list
friendly hosting service.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From cpz at tuunq.com  Tue Apr 25 00:17:02 2017
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 21:17:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to slow down delivery rate
In-Reply-To: <2D082140-8A80-4429-AED8-EFE1879D7DCE@shaw.ca>
References: <2D082140-8A80-4429-AED8-EFE1879D7DCE@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <541f68d5-a744-0943-1d71-a93c9ecf3e9e@tuunq.com>

On 4/24/2017 8:30 PM, Rob Dover wrote:
> Is there any way I can slow down the delivery rate so it is below the 100 / hour threshold?

Have you looked in the FAQ (linked in the footer)? More specifically at 
section 4.51.

(Unless it's changed more recently, and I'm sure Mark will know, the answer 
is basically "not in mailman, use another mechanism".)

Later,

z!


From jorohr at gmail.com  Mon Apr 24 14:11:20 2017
From: jorohr at gmail.com (Johannes Rohr)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 20:11:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman uses wrong encoding,
 /etc/mailman/[language] not generated
Message-ID: <CABhjj=VMuVeyVPPQp3WmJONuiqrA=rt5e0gAfMCf3U86Joqt9w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

we have recently migrated from a server with Ubuntu 14.4 to one using
Ubuntu's current LTS.

The default language for most mailing lists is German. Since the migration,
mailman serves all pages and mail notifications in latin-1 instead of
utf-8, which the header still decleares the content to be UTF-8, which
leads to broken display, see eg
https://lists.uferwerk.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/

I noticed that the subdirectory for the English templates /etc/mailman/en
exists, but there is no /etc/mailman/de

On Debian/Ubuntu, /var/lib/mailman/Templates  is a symlink to /etc/mailman,
which by default is owned by root:root. I changed that to root:list and
restarted mailman, in the hope that /etc/mailman/de would eventually be
generated, but it wasn't.

What is the mechanism, by which the templates directory for the respective
language is generated? Could this be a permission issue, and could the
mismatch between the charset declared in the header of the message or
website and the actual charset in the content be somehow related to that?

Thanks in advance for any suggestion,

Johannes

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 25 12:59:21 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 09:59:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman uses wrong encoding,
 /etc/mailman/[language] not generated
In-Reply-To: <CABhjj=VMuVeyVPPQp3WmJONuiqrA=rt5e0gAfMCf3U86Joqt9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABhjj=VMuVeyVPPQp3WmJONuiqrA=rt5e0gAfMCf3U86Joqt9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cf5afe82-0011-3d7c-3597-a4c4f06924fc@msapiro.net>

On 04/24/2017 11:11 AM, Johannes Rohr wrote:
> 
> The default language for most mailing lists is German. Since the migration,
> mailman serves all pages and mail notifications in latin-1 instead of
> utf-8, which the header still decleares the content to be UTF-8, which
> leads to broken display, see eg
> https://lists.uferwerk.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/


First see my comments in your bug report at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mailman/+bug/1685946/comments/1>


> I noticed that the subdirectory for the English templates /etc/mailman/en
> exists, but there is no /etc/mailman/de
> 
> On Debian/Ubuntu, /var/lib/mailman/Templates  is a symlink to /etc/mailman,
> which by default is owned by root:root. I changed that to root:list and
> restarted mailman, in the hope that /etc/mailman/de would eventually be
> generated, but it wasn't.


The ownership of symlinks is irrelevant. Only the ownership (and mode)
of the target is significant.

In any case, the upstream source of the German Message catalog is
messages/de/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po and it is latin-1 encoded. The Debian
91_utf8.patch which I mention in the above referenced comment creates a
utf-8 encoded version of that in
messages/de/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po.utf-8 and compiles that into
messages/de/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo. All of that takes place in the
source build directory which is not the installed directory distributed
with the package. The installed directory should end up with a
mailman.po and mailman.mo, both utf-8 encoded.


> What is the mechanism, by which the templates directory for the respective
> language is generated? Could this be a permission issue, and could the
> mismatch between the charset declared in the header of the message or
> website and the actual charset in the content be somehow related to that?


You need to look at the messages/de/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po file you
have. Near the beginning will be a line like

"Content-Type: text/plain; charset=xxx\n"

where xxx is either ISO-8859-1 or UTF-8. If it is UTF-8 and the 'msgstr'
values are utf-8 encoded, you can rebuild the .mo with

cd messages/de/LC_MESSAGES/
msgfmt -o mailman.mo mailman.po

but I suspect that is not the case. I suspect that somehow in your
migration process you replaced the Debian utf-8 encoded files with older
iso-8859-1 files. In that case you need to convert the .po to utf-8
before compiling with something like

msgconv -t utf-8 mailman.po | msgfmt -o mailman.mo -

or if you want to save the utf-8 encoded .po you could do something like

msgconv -t utf-8 -o mailman.po.utf-8 mailman.po
msgfmt -o mailman.mo mailman.po.utf-8

Note that in either of the above the msgfmt command will produce a few
"fatal" errors of the form

mailman.po:7051: 'msgid' and 'msgstr' entries do not both end with '\n'

but the output should be OK. To avoid this you can use the
var/mailman/bin/msgfmt.py command instead.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jorohr at gmail.com  Tue Apr 25 13:22:44 2017
From: jorohr at gmail.com (Johannes Rohr)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 19:22:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman uses wrong encoding,
 /etc/mailman/[language] not generated
In-Reply-To: <cf5afe82-0011-3d7c-3597-a4c4f06924fc@msapiro.net>
References: <CABhjj=VMuVeyVPPQp3WmJONuiqrA=rt5e0gAfMCf3U86Joqt9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <cf5afe82-0011-3d7c-3597-a4c4f06924fc@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <cc4ee4db-7f1b-73a3-d61a-a474ee06e658@gmail.com>

Am 25.04.2017 um 18:59 schrieb Mark Sapiro:
>  
> You need to look at the messages/de/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po file you
> have. Near the beginning will be a line like
>
> "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=xxx\n"
>
> where xxx is either ISO-8859-1 or UTF-8. If it is UTF-8 and the 'msgstr'
> values are utf-8 encoded, you can rebuild the .mo with
>
> cd messages/de/LC_MESSAGES/
> msgfmt -o mailman.mo mailman.po
>
> but I suspect that is not the case. I suspect that somehow in your
> migration process you replaced the Debian utf-8 encoded files with older
> iso-8859-1 files.
That might be the case. I didn't do the migration myself, but it is true
that the mailman.po for some reason was encoded in latin-1, not utf-8.
And the files which ship with the deb have the correct UTF-8 encoding.
So those with the wrong encoding must have been carried over. It is a
bit stupid, that those files are in /var so that dpkg doesn't replace them.

But again, thanks for your help! You got me on the right track. In
hindsight, the solution was trivial, but I just wasn't aware of the
existence of message catalogues outside of /usr/share/locale ...

Cheers,

Johannes

From rumeshbandara at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 01:01:52 2017
From: rumeshbandara at gmail.com (Rumesh Bandara)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 10:31:52 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restore a single mail from a data backup
Message-ID: <CADjD2bZZBeRp8GhffVPKVNWF4ZOwvgC2g5ug7OJUVyBHJ6k5Ew@mail.gmail.com>

I accidentally discarded a message from the mailing list. Fortunately, I
have the mailman data backup. Is there a way to restore a single mail from
the backup?

Thanks,
Rumesh

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 26 10:36:57 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:36:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restore a single mail from a data backup
In-Reply-To: <CADjD2bZZBeRp8GhffVPKVNWF4ZOwvgC2g5ug7OJUVyBHJ6k5Ew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADjD2bZZBeRp8GhffVPKVNWF4ZOwvgC2g5ug7OJUVyBHJ6k5Ew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <70fa1796-bf7b-a524-0284-0fbb3623b48a@msapiro.net>

On 04/25/2017 10:01 PM, Rumesh Bandara wrote:
> I accidentally discarded a message from the mailing list. Fortunately, I
> have the mailman data backup. Is there a way to restore a single mail from
> the backup?


The message was in a file named heldmsg-LISTNAME-nnn.pck in Mailman's
data/ directory. Restore that file. You can restore it anywhere, it
doesn't have to be in the data/ directory. Then see the script at
<https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/hold_again> (mirrored at
<https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/hold_again>) for the way to
process it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From rumeshbandara at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 10:44:17 2017
From: rumeshbandara at gmail.com (Rumesh Bandara)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:14:17 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restore a single mail from a data backup
In-Reply-To: <70fa1796-bf7b-a524-0284-0fbb3623b48a@msapiro.net>
References: <CADjD2bZZBeRp8GhffVPKVNWF4ZOwvgC2g5ug7OJUVyBHJ6k5Ew@mail.gmail.com>
 <70fa1796-bf7b-a524-0284-0fbb3623b48a@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CADjD2bYVbtebrkia9PqY3wQ+OwYej-BiTQrtDS2h8iJAYoe=1w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the response. I'll try this.

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:06 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 04/25/2017 10:01 PM, Rumesh Bandara wrote:
> > I accidentally discarded a message from the mailing list. Fortunately, I
> > have the mailman data backup. Is there a way to restore a single mail
> from
> > the backup?
>
>
> The message was in a file named heldmsg-LISTNAME-nnn.pck in Mailman's
> data/ directory. Restore that file. You can restore it anywhere, it
> doesn't have to be in the data/ directory. Then see the script at
> <https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/hold_again> (mirrored at
> <https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/hold_again>) for the way to
> process it.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/
> rumeshbandara%40gmail.com
>

From deansuhr at deansuhr.us  Wed Apr 26 18:41:03 2017
From: deansuhr at deansuhr.us (Dean Suhr)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 15:41:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shortening mailman sign-up page links
Message-ID: <9157B98F-6A0A-4BA6-8B54-8857DB8E5AD1@deansuhr.us>

My Mailman list server is running on a linux server. 

I want to use a simplified URL to get to the list signup page. (I am afraid the underscore might be mistaken for a space in invitation emails when the email client automatically underlines links).

I am not a htaccess wizard and have tried both file and domain level redirecting with no joy. I thought the ".org" in the live URL might be the problem but apparently it's not. Thanks in advance.

Simplified URL: http://mldfamily.org/i-have-mld <http://mldfamily.org/i-have-mld>
Live signup URL: http://mldfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/i-have-mld_mldfamily.org <http://mldfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/i-have-mld_mldfamily.org>

These two don?t work:
RedirectMatch 301 http://mldfamily.org/i-have-mld <http://mldfamily.org/i-have-mld>(.*) http://mldfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/i-have-mld_mldfamily.org/$1

Redirect 301 http://mldfamily.org/i-have-mld <http://mldfamily.org/i-have-mld> http://mldfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/i-have-mld_mldfamily.org


Thanks in advance.

Dean

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 26 19:24:18 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 16:24:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shortening mailman sign-up page links
In-Reply-To: <9157B98F-6A0A-4BA6-8B54-8857DB8E5AD1@deansuhr.us>
References: <9157B98F-6A0A-4BA6-8B54-8857DB8E5AD1@deansuhr.us>
Message-ID: <6c9c4ac0-4b5b-16d2-2e20-414dcceb75e0@msapiro.net>

On 04/26/2017 03:41 PM, Dean Suhr wrote:
> My Mailman list server is running on a linux server. 
> 
> I want to use a simplified URL to get to the list signup page. (I am afraid the underscore might be mistaken for a space in invitation emails when the email client automatically underlines links).
> 
> I am not a htaccess wizard and have tried both file and domain level redirecting with no joy. I thought the ".org" in the live URL might be the problem but apparently it's not. Thanks in advance.
> 
> Simplified URL: http://mldfamily.org/i-have-mld
> Live signup URL: http://mldfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/i-have-mld_mldfamily.org


This looks like cPanel where the list posting address is
i-have-mld at mldfamily.org, but the actual internal list name is
i-have-mld_mldfamily.org.


> These two don?t work:
> RedirectMatch 301 http://mldfamily.org/i-have-mld(.*) http://mldfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/i-have-mld_mldfamily.org/$1
> 
> Redirect 301 http://mldfamily.org/i-have-mld http://mldfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/i-have-mld_mldfamily.org


They don't work because the match is against the URL-path, not against
the full URL. You want things like

> RedirectMatch 301 /i-have-mld(.*) http://mldfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/i-have-mld_mldfamily.org/$1

or

> Redirect 301 /i-have-mld http://mldfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/i-have-mld_mldfamily.org

or even

> RedirectMatch 301 /i-have-mld(.*) /mailman/listinfo/i-have-mld_mldfamily.org/$1

or

> Redirect 301 /i-have-mld /mailman/listinfo/i-have-mld_mldfamily.org

but I don't think you'd ever really want the first of either pair.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From deansuhr at deansuhr.us  Sun Apr 30 19:06:44 2017
From: deansuhr at deansuhr.us (Dean Suhr)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 16:06:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Query for un confirmed subscription requests v2.1
Message-ID: <2A7EE812-EFDF-4920-B613-BF00CCDECAD1@deansuhr.us>

Greetings,

We have just set up a new small mailing list where we are very hands on with invitations to join.  We had Confirm and Approve selected ? and came to find that a notable percentage of Confirmation messages went to the user?s SPAM folders.  (This is in spite of them being subscribers to at least one other list of ours).

Is there a way to query what email addresses have been sent Confirmation messages but not responded/confirmed?  Is there a time after which unconfirmed subscription requests are purged? 

I know there are no more features being added to 2.1 ? but it sure seems like being able to follow people through the subscription process, and maybe even to have the ability to resend the Confirmation emails would make us look better.  With today?s flow we don't know they requested to subscribe ? and they get angry at us because they think we are not responding their subscription request.

For the benefit of others ? we updated the text on the Subscribe results page that you can find under Edit the public HTML pages and text files to tell folks that they should look for a Confirmation email.  This web page pops up after they click subscribe - no email involved.

And in fact, we removed email verification altogether since we deal in a more closed environment.  The risk of someone subscribing someone else by faking their email or of a typo is lower than the frustration of double digit capture of verification emails into SPAM.

Thanks,

Dean

 

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr 30 22:14:19 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 19:14:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Query for un confirmed subscription requests
 v2.1
In-Reply-To: <2A7EE812-EFDF-4920-B613-BF00CCDECAD1@deansuhr.us>
References: <2A7EE812-EFDF-4920-B613-BF00CCDECAD1@deansuhr.us>
Message-ID: <eaff91e2-86f2-10cb-6ba5-0698295d4e2e@msapiro.net>

On 04/30/2017 04:06 PM, Dean Suhr wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to query what email addresses have been sent Confirmation messages but not responded/confirmed?  Is there a time after which unconfirmed subscription requests are purged? 


See the script at <https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_pending>
<mirrored at <https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/list_pending>.

Confirmations expire after PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE (default 3 days.


> I know there are no more features being added to 2.1 ? but it sure seems like being able to follow people through the subscription process, and maybe even to have the ability to resend the Confirmation emails would make us look better.  With today?s flow we don't know they requested to subscribe ? and they get angry at us because they think we are not responding their subscription request.


You can "resend" a confirmation by inviting the user through the web
admin Membership Management... -> Mass Subscription interface.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From deansuhr at deansuhr.us  Sun Apr 30 22:32:25 2017
From: deansuhr at deansuhr.us (Dean Suhr)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 19:32:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email short code for Subscribe Results Page
Message-ID: <D8D2F421-FCB1-40B9-860E-219CDD9A9F36@deansuhr.us>

Is there a short-code to cause the subscriber?s email address to appear on the Subscribe Results Page?  I know we can use "%(email)s? in the email messages to dynamically substitute text in email messages but this does not work on the web page.

I found this list but there is no dynamic information (like email) here:

<mm-archive>
<mm-email-user>
<mm-form-end>
<mm-host>
<mm-list-description>
<mm-list-info>
<mm-list-langs>
<mm-list-name>
<mm-list-subscription-msg>
<mm-mailman-footer>
<mm-num-digesters>
<mm-num-members>
<mm-num-reg-users>
<mm-owner>
<mm-posting-addr>
<mm-reminder>
<mm-request-addr>
<mm-restricted-list-messag>


Thanks,

Dean