From mail at dbrgn.ch  Mon Feb  1 09:11:24 2016
From: mail at dbrgn.ch (Danilo)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2016 09:11:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable "Message awaits moderator approval" E-Mail
Message-ID: <1454335884.3504788.508450714.7E5E225F@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hello list

When an outsider posts an e-mail to a closed list, he/she gets an e-mail
with the Subject "Your message to Vorstand awaits moderator approval".
Is there a way to disable that e-mail?

Reasoning: The list is used for the board members of an association. I
want to use that e-mail both for internal discussions as well as for
external requests. But external people should not note that this is a
mailing list (because it is irrelevant to them).

Is this possible directly or through a workaround (e.g. by using another
e-mail that forwards to the mailing list)?

Danilo

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  1 10:59:58 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 07:59:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable "Message awaits moderator approval"
 E-Mail
In-Reply-To: <1454335884.3504788.508450714.7E5E225F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1454335884.3504788.508450714.7E5E225F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <56AF80FE.4070904@msapiro.net>

On 02/01/2016 06:11 AM, Danilo wrote:
> 
> When an outsider posts an e-mail to a closed list, he/she gets an e-mail
> with the Subject "Your message to Vorstand awaits moderator approval".
> Is there a way to disable that e-mail?


Go to the list admin web UI and in the Notifications section on the
General Options page set

Send mail to poster when their posting is held for approval?
(Edit respond_to_post_requests)

to No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mail at dbrgn.ch  Mon Feb  1 13:36:53 2016
From: mail at dbrgn.ch (Danilo)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2016 13:36:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable "Message awaits moderator approval"
 E-Mail
In-Reply-To: <56AF80FE.4070904@msapiro.net>
References: <1454335884.3504788.508450714.7E5E225F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <56AF80FE.4070904@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1454351813.2842849.508748234.72D95702@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi Mark

> Go to the list admin web UI and in the Notifications section on the
> General Options page set
> 
> Send mail to poster when their posting is held for approval?
> (Edit respond_to_post_requests)
> 
> to No.

Thanks a lot, I somehow overlooked that when going through the settings
:)

All the best,
Danilo

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  2 22:29:42 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 19:29:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.21 release
Message-ID: <56B17426.6020207@msapiro.net>

I am pleased to announce the first release candidate for Mailman 2.1.21.

Python 2.4 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.7 is strongly recommended.

This release includes a few new features and several bug fixes. See the
attached README for details.

Associated with these changes are six new and two modified strings in
the i18n message catalogs. I strongly encourage anyone with an interest
in translations of Mailman to get this release and help with updating
the translations for the final 2.1.21 release which is planned for the
end of February.

This candidate is expected to be quite stable. All the changes since
2.1.20 have been installed in the python.org Mailman as they were
developed and are running without known issues. The only reason why this
is a candidate and not a final release is to allow time for i18n updates
to be in the final.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, please see our web site at one of:

http://www.list.org
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
http://mailman.sourceforge.net/
http://mirror.list.org/

Mailman 2.1.21rc1 can be downloaded from

https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/
http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
-------------- next part --------------
2.1.21rc1 (03-Feb-2016)

  New Features

    - There is a new dmarc_none_moderation_action list setting and a
      DEFAULT_DMARC_NONE_MODERATION_ACTION mm_cfg.py setting to optionally
      apply Munge From or Wrap Message actions to posts From: domains that
      publish DMARC p=none.  The intent is to eliminate failure reports to
      the domain owner for messages that would be munged or wrapped if the
      domain published a stronger DMARC policy.  See the descriptions in
      Defaults.py, the web UI and the bug report for more.  (LP: #1539384)

    - Thanks to Jim Popovitch there is now a feature to automatically turn
      on moderation for a malicious list member who attempts to flood a list
      with spam.  See the details for the Privacy options ... -> Sender
      filters -> member_verbosity_threshold and member_verbosity_interval
      settings in the web admin UI and the documentation in Defaults.py for
      the DEFAULT_MEMBER_VERBOSITY_* and VERBOSE_CLEAN_LIMIT settings for
      information.

    - bin/list_members now has options to display all moderated or all
      non-moderated members.

    - There is now a mm_cfg.py setting GLOBAL_BAN_LIST which is like the
      individual list's ban_list but applies globally to all subscribe
      requests.  See the description in Defaults.py for more details.

  i18n

    - Several Galician templates that were improperly encoded as iso-8859-1
      have been fixed.  (LP: #1532504)

    - The German translation has been updated by Mirian Margiani.

    - The Brazilian Portugese translation has been updated by Emerson Ribeiro
      de Mello.

  Bug fixes and other patches

    - Modified contrib/mmdsr to report held and banned subscriptions and DMARC
      lookups in their own categories.

    - Fixed a bug that could create a garbled From: header with certain DMARC
      mitigation actions.  (LP: #1536816)

    - Treat a poster's address which matches an equivalent_domains address as
      a list member for the regular_exclude_ignore check.  (LP: #1526550)

    - Fixed an issue that sometimes left no white space following
      subject_prefix.  (LP: #1525954)

    - Vette log entries for banned subscriptions now include the source of
      the request if available.  (LP: #1525733)

    - Submitting the user options form for a user who was asynchronously
      unsubscribed would throw an uncaught NotAMemberError.  (LP: #1523273)

    - It was possible under some circumstances for a message to be shunted
      after a handler rejected or discarded it, and the handler would be
      skipped upon unshunting and the message accepted.  (LP: #1519062)

    - Posts gated to usenet will no longer have other than the target group
      in the Newsgroups: header.  (LP: #1512866)

    - Invalid regexps in *_these_nonmembers, subscribe_auto_approval and
      ban_list are now logged.  (LP: #1507241)

    - Refactored the GetPattern list method to simplify extending @listname
      syntax to new attributes in the future.  Changed Moderate.py to use the
      GetPattern method to process the *_these_nonmembers lists.

    - Changed CookHeaders to default to using space rather than tab as
      continuation_ws when folding headers.  (LP: #1505878)

    - Fixed the 'pidfile' path in the sample init.d script.  (LP: # 1503422)

    - Subject prefixing could fail to collapse multiple 'Re:' in an incomming
      message if they all came after the list's subject_prefix.  This is now
      fixed.  (LP: #1496620)

    - Defended against a user submitting URLs with query fragments or POST
      data containing multiple occurrences of the same variable.
      (LP: #1496632)

    - Fixed bin/mailmanctl to check its effective rather than real uid.
      (LP: #1491187)

    - Fixed cron/gate_news to catch EOFError on opening the newsgroup.
      (LP: #1486263)

    - Fixed a bug where a delayed probe bounce can throw an AttributeError.
      (LP: #1482940)

    - If a list is not digestable an the user is not currently set to
      receive digests, the digest options will not be shown on the user's
      options page.  (LP: #1476298)

    - Improved identification of remote clients for logging and subscribe
      form checking in cases where access is via a proxy server.  Thanks to
      Jim Popovitch.  Also updated contrib/mmdsr for log change.

    - Fixed an issue with shunted messages on a list where the charset for
      the list's preferred_language had been changed from iso-8859-1 to
      utf-8 without recoding the list's description.  (LP: #1462755)

    - Mailman-Postfix integration will now add mailman at domain entries in
      data/virtual-mailman for each domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
      which is a host_name of a list.  This is so the addresses which are
      exposed on admin and listinfo overview pages of virtual domains will
      be deliverable.  (LP: #1459236)

    - The vette log entry for DMARC policy hits now contains the list name.
      (LP: #1450826)

    - If SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET is enabled and a user's network has a load
      balancer or similar in use the POSTing IP might not exactly match the
      GETting IP.  This is now accounted for by not requiring the last
      octet (16 bits for ipV6) to match.  (LP: #1447445)

    - DKIM-Signature:, DomainKey-Signature: and Authentication-Results:
      headers are now removed by default from posts to anonymous lists.
      (LP: #1444673)

    - The list admin web UI Mambership List search function often doesn't
      return correct results for search strings (regexps) that contain
      non-ascii characters.  This is partially fixed.  (LP: #1442298)

-------------- next part --------------
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From f at florianfuchs.com  Tue Feb  2 17:50:11 2016
From: f at florianfuchs.com (f at florianfuchs.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2016 23:50:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED: Postorius 1.0.3
Message-ID: <1659f9af984ce823b2b0c5cbaf9261cc@florianfuchs.com>

I'm announcing the release of Postorius 1.0.3.

It contains an important security fix[1], so we strongly recommend that 
all sites running Mailman 3.0 in combination with Postorius update their 
instances to this version.

The easiest way to upgrade is via pip:

   pip install --upgrade postorius

The latest tarball is also available on 
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/postorius.

Florian


[1] http://wiki.list.org/SEC/Unauthorized-Domain-Deletion/


From peterc at northsld.org  Wed Feb  3 17:09:43 2016
From: peterc at northsld.org (Peter W. Caton)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 22:09:43 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS: Forbidden You don't
 have permission to access /cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman on this server
Message-ID: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F97ADA@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>

Kind greetings.

I am having a problem with Mailman on Ubuntu server.

I used this guide to install Mailman on Ubuntu 14.04.3: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/mailman.html.

When I try to access the Mailman website, I receive this message:

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman on this server.

I receive this message trying to access either of these pages:

http://server/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman

http://server/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailman

I can access the Apache web page on "server."  Just not the Mailman pages.

Any thoughts on how to fix this?

Thank you.

Peter W. Caton

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  4 12:14:31 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 09:14:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS: Forbidden You
 don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman on this
 server
In-Reply-To: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F97ADA@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>
References: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F97ADA@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>
Message-ID: <56B386F7.8030703@msapiro.net>

On 02/03/2016 02:09 PM, Peter W. Caton wrote:
> 
> I used this guide to install Mailman on Ubuntu 14.04.3: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/mailman.html.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/12812344>.


> When I try to access the Mailman website, I receive this message:
> 
> Forbidden
> 
> You don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman on this server.
> 
> I receive this message trying to access either of these pages:
> 
> http://server/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman
> 
> http://server/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailman
> 
> I can access the Apache web page on "server."  Just not the Mailman pages.
> 
> Any thoughts on how to fix this?


It would help if you posted the information about this from the apache
error log, but I think the issue is Ubuntu's Apache package doesn't
enable mod-cgi by default.

Check /etc/apache2/mods-enabled. There should be a symlink

cgi.load -> ../mods-available/cgi.load

If it's not there, do

cd /etc/apache2/mods-enabled
ln -s ../mods-available/cgi.load cgi.load

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Thu Feb  4 12:22:15 2016
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 17:22:15 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS: Forbidden You
 don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman on this
 server
In-Reply-To: <56B386F7.8030703@msapiro.net>
References: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F97ADA@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>
 <56B386F7.8030703@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20160204172215.GW21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Thu, Feb 04, 2016 at 09:14:31AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 02/03/2016 02:09 PM, Peter W. Caton wrote:
> > Forbidden

[ ? ]
> Check /etc/apache2/mods-enabled. There should be a symlink

https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/upgrading.html#run-time also springs
to mind.

(as a side note, Peter, do you really want /cgi-bin/ in your URIs?
https://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI springs to mind)

-- 
"What a lot of parties. masked parties, Savage parties ... parties
 where one had to dress as somebody else, almost naked parties in St
 John's Wood, parties in flats and studios and houses and ships and
 hotels and night clubs, in windmills and swimming-baths..."

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Thu Feb  4 12:25:50 2016
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 17:25:50 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS: Forbidden You
 don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman on this
 server
In-Reply-To: <20160204172215.GW21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F97ADA@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>
 <56B386F7.8030703@msapiro.net>
 <20160204172215.GW21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20160204172550.GX21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Thu, Feb 04, 2016 at 05:22:15PM +0000, Adam McGreggor wrote:
> https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/upgrading.html#run-time also springs
> to mind.

Although with a ScriptAlias, this may not be necessary (but for
/pipermail/ etc probably useful).


-- 
"MP3s are for people who download music. People who buy Mercedes
 cars can afford to buy their music."
    (Mercedes dealer, to customer requesting an in-car MP3 player)

From peterc at northsld.org  Thu Feb  4 12:42:57 2016
From: peterc at northsld.org (Peter W. Caton)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 17:42:57 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS: Forbidden You
 don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman on this
 server
In-Reply-To: <56B386F7.8030703@msapiro.net>
References: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F97ADA@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>
 <56B386F7.8030703@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F98C60@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>

Thanks.

There was no symlink.

I created one as per your instructions.

I am now able to access the Mailman web pages.

I greatly appreciate the help.

Peter W. Caton

-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+peterc=northsld.org at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 11:15 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS: Forbidden You don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman on this server

On 02/03/2016 02:09 PM, Peter W. Caton wrote:
> 
> I used this guide to install Mailman on Ubuntu 14.04.3: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/mailman.html.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/12812344>.


> When I try to access the Mailman website, I receive this message:
> 
> Forbidden
> 
> You don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman on this server.
> 
> I receive this message trying to access either of these pages:
> 
> http://server/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman
> 
> http://server/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailman
> 
> I can access the Apache web page on "server."  Just not the Mailman pages.
> 
> Any thoughts on how to fix this?


It would help if you posted the information about this from the apache error log, but I think the issue is Ubuntu's Apache package doesn't enable mod-cgi by default.

Check /etc/apache2/mods-enabled. There should be a symlink

cgi.load -> ../mods-available/cgi.load

If it's not there, do

cd /etc/apache2/mods-enabled
ln -s ../mods-available/cgi.load cgi.load

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/peterc%40northsld.org

From peterc at northsld.org  Thu Feb  4 18:48:28 2016
From: peterc at northsld.org (Peter W. Caton)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 23:48:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive Forbidden 403 Error Message
Message-ID: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F992FA@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>

Good evening.

I have encountered another "forbidden 403" error when trying to access the archives:

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /pipermail/mailman/ on this server.
Apache/2.4.7 (Ubuntu) Server at mailman.niclibraries.org Port 80

I did enable the information outlined in this post.

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-December/048008.html

I still receive the 403 error.

Any other thoughts on how to fix this?

Thanks again.

Peter W. Caton

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  4 19:02:34 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:02:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive Forbidden 403 Error Message
In-Reply-To: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F992FA@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>
References: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F992FA@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>
Message-ID: <56B3E69A.8020705@msapiro.net>

On 02/04/2016 03:48 PM, Peter W. Caton wrote:
> 
> You don't have permission to access /pipermail/mailman/ on this server.
> Apache/2.4.7 (Ubuntu) Server at mailman.niclibraries.org Port 80


/var/lib/mailman/private MUST be either o+x or owned by the web server
user (www-data in Ubuntu).

The only reason for making it o-x is if you are on a shared server with
local users who shouldn't be allowed to see Mailman's archives.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  4 19:43:44 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:43:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive Forbidden 403 Error Message
In-Reply-To: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F993EC@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>
References: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F992FA@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>
 <56B3E69A.8020705@msapiro.net>
 <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F993EC@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>
Message-ID: <56B3F040.4010009@msapiro.net>

On 02/04/2016 04:38 PM, Peter W. Caton wrote:
> Thanks.
> 
> I don't see a /var/lib/mailman/private folder.
> 
> Should I create one?


No. My error, it's /var/lib/mailman/archives/private.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  5 01:45:28 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 22:45:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.21 release - IMPORTANT update
Message-ID: <56B44508.4020808@msapiro.net>

I am pleased to announce the second release candidate for Mailman
2.1.21. This fixes a serious bug in the first release candidate in that
the few new list attributes weren't initialized for new lists. 2.1.21rc1
would work with lists migrated from older releases but lists created
under that release were unusable.

If you installed 2.1.21rc1, you should upgrade to 2.1.21rc2, and if you
created new lists under 2.1.21rc1, see the attached fix_list procedure.

Python 2.4 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.7 is strongly recommended.

This release includes a few new features and several bug fixes. See the
attached README for details.

Associated with these changes are six new and two modified strings in
the i18n message catalogs. I strongly encourage anyone with an interest
in translations of Mailman to get this release and help with updating
the translations for the final 2.1.21 release which is planned for the
end of February.

This candidate is expected to be quite stable. All the changes since
2.1.20 have been installed in the python.org Mailman as they were
developed and are running without known issues. The only reason why this
is a candidate and not a final release is to allow time for i18n updates
to be in the final.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, please see our web site at one of:

http://www.list.org
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
http://mailman.sourceforge.net/
http://mirror.list.org/

Mailman 2.1.21rc2 can be downloaded from

https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/
http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
2.1.21rc2 (05-Feb-2016)

  New Features

    - There is a new dmarc_none_moderation_action list setting and a
      DEFAULT_DMARC_NONE_MODERATION_ACTION mm_cfg.py setting to optionally
      apply Munge From or Wrap Message actions to posts From: domains that
      publish DMARC p=none.  The intent is to eliminate failure reports to
      the domain owner for messages that would be munged or wrapped if the
      domain published a stronger DMARC policy.  See the descriptions in
      Defaults.py, the web UI and the bug report for more.  (LP: #1539384)

    - Thanks to Jim Popovitch there is now a feature to automatically turn
      on moderation for a malicious list member who attempts to flood a list
      with spam.  See the details for the Privacy options ... -> Sender
      filters -> member_verbosity_threshold and member_verbosity_interval
      settings in the web admin UI and the documentation in Defaults.py for
      the DEFAULT_MEMBER_VERBOSITY_* and VERBOSE_CLEAN_LIMIT settings for
      information.

    - bin/list_members now has options to display all moderated or all
      non-moderated members.

    - There is now a mm_cfg.py setting GLOBAL_BAN_LIST which is like the
      individual list's ban_list but applies globally to all subscribe
      requests.  See the description in Defaults.py for more details.

  i18n

    - Several Galician templates that were improperly encoded as iso-8859-1
      have been fixed.  (LP: #1532504)

    - The German translation has been updated by Mirian Margiani.

    - The Brazilian Portugese translation has been updated by Emerson Ribeiro
      de Mello.

  Bug fixes and other patches

    - Modified contrib/mmdsr to report held and banned subscriptions and DMARC
      lookups in their own categories.

    - Fixed a bug that could create a garbled From: header with certain DMARC
      mitigation actions.  (LP: #1536816)

    - Treat a poster's address which matches an equivalent_domains address as
      a list member for the regular_exclude_ignore check.  (LP: #1526550)

    - Fixed an issue that sometimes left no white space following
      subject_prefix.  (LP: #1525954)

    - Vette log entries for banned subscriptions now include the source of
      the request if available.  (LP: #1525733)

    - Submitting the user options form for a user who was asynchronously
      unsubscribed would throw an uncaught NotAMemberError.  (LP: #1523273)

    - It was possible under some circumstances for a message to be shunted
      after a handler rejected or discarded it, and the handler would be
      skipped upon unshunting and the message accepted.  (LP: #1519062)

    - Posts gated to usenet will no longer have other than the target group
      in the Newsgroups: header.  (LP: #1512866)

    - Invalid regexps in *_these_nonmembers, subscribe_auto_approval and
      ban_list are now logged.  (LP: #1507241)

    - Refactored the GetPattern list method to simplify extending @listname
      syntax to new attributes in the future.  Changed Moderate.py to use the
      GetPattern method to process the *_these_nonmembers lists.

    - Changed CookHeaders to default to using space rather than tab as
      continuation_ws when folding headers.  (LP: #1505878)

    - Fixed the 'pidfile' path in the sample init.d script.  (LP: # 1503422)

    - Subject prefixing could fail to collapse multiple 'Re:' in an incomming
      message if they all came after the list's subject_prefix.  This is now
      fixed.  (LP: #1496620)

    - Defended against a user submitting URLs with query fragments or POST
      data containing multiple occurrences of the same variable.
      (LP: #1496632)

    - Fixed bin/mailmanctl to check its effective rather than real uid.
      (LP: #1491187)

    - Fixed cron/gate_news to catch EOFError on opening the newsgroup.
      (LP: #1486263)

    - Fixed a bug where a delayed probe bounce can throw an AttributeError.
      (LP: #1482940)

    - If a list is not digestable an the user is not currently set to
      receive digests, the digest options will not be shown on the user's
      options page.  (LP: #1476298)

    - Improved identification of remote clients for logging and subscribe
      form checking in cases where access is via a proxy server.  Thanks to
      Jim Popovitch.  Also updated contrib/mmdsr for log change.

    - Fixed an issue with shunted messages on a list where the charset for
      the list's preferred_language had been changed from iso-8859-1 to
      utf-8 without recoding the list's description.  (LP: #1462755)

    - Mailman-Postfix integration will now add mailman at domain entries in
      data/virtual-mailman for each domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
      which is a host_name of a list.  This is so the addresses which are
      exposed on admin and listinfo overview pages of virtual domains will
      be deliverable.  (LP: #1459236)

    - The vette log entry for DMARC policy hits now contains the list name.
      (LP: #1450826)

    - If SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET is enabled and a user's network has a load
      balancer or similar in use the POSTing IP might not exactly match the
      GETting IP.  This is now accounted for by not requiring the last
      octet (16 bits for ipV6) to match.  (LP: #1447445)

    - DKIM-Signature:, DomainKey-Signature: and Authentication-Results:
      headers are now removed by default from posts to anonymous lists.
      (LP: #1444673)

    - The list admin web UI Mambership List search function often doesn't
      return correct results for search strings (regexps) that contain
      non-ascii characters.  This is partially fixed.  (LP: #1442298)

-------------- next part --------------
The following is a transcript of a withlist session that fixes a list
without new attributes.

It invokes withlist on 'listname'

looks at the lists dmarc_none_moderation_action which throws an AttributeError

looks at the lists data_version which is 110.

sets it to 109.

saves and reloads the list.

verifies the data_version is now 110 again and dmarc_none_moderation_action
exists.

Wnlocks the list and exits.


msapiro at mail:~/mm$ bin/withlist -l listname
Loading list listname (locked)
The variable `m' is the listname MailList instance
>>> m.dmarc_none_moderation_action
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/srv/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 147, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: dmarc_none_moderation_action
>>> m.data_version
110
>>> m.data_version = 109
>>> m.Save()
>>> m.data_version
109
>>> m.Load()
>>> m.data_version
110
>>> m.dmarc_none_moderation_action
False
>>> m.Unlock()
>>> 
Finalizing


Another way is to run bin/config_list on the list with an input file containing
the single line

mlist.data_version = 109

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From ssn at ebi.ac.uk  Fri Feb  5 10:15:54 2016
From: ssn at ebi.ac.uk (ssn at ebi.ac.uk)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 15:15:54 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman/sendmail process /var/spool/mail content
Message-ID: <56B4BCAA.2070001@ebi.ac.uk>

Hi

We had an issue with the mailman server which is now back and running, 
mqueue is empty however /var/spool/mail contains many hundreds of files 
containing an email that was not posted during the period we had an 
issue. Is there way to process these with mailman?

Thanks

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  5 12:00:23 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 09:00:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman/sendmail process /var/spool/mail content
In-Reply-To: <56B4BCAA.2070001@ebi.ac.uk>
References: <56B4BCAA.2070001@ebi.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <56B4D527.1070206@msapiro.net>

On 02/05/2016 07:15 AM, ssn at ebi.ac.uk wrote:
> 
> We had an issue with the mailman server which is now back and running,
> mqueue is empty however /var/spool/mail contains many hundreds of files
> containing an email that was not posted during the period we had an
> issue. Is there way to process these with mailman?


So during some period, the MTA was delivering list mail to mboxes in
/var/spool/mail instead of to Mailman. Is that correct? That's a bit
wierd, but in any case, what is the actual situation now? Are there a
bunch of /var/spool/mail/<listname> files, each of which is a mbox with
all the messages for that list, or are there a bunch of
/var/spool/mail/<listname> maildir directories with individual message
files.

It would be fairly easy to create a script to use Mailman's bin/inject
command to post the messages or post them directly, but it would depend
on how the messages are stored.

I will help with a script, but I would need to know how to find the
messages.

Or if you could arrange to put the messages into some hierarchy like:

x/list1/list1message1
x/list1/list1message2
...
x/list2/list1message1
x/list2/list1message2
...

you could then do something like

for list in `ls x`; do
   for msg in `ls x/$list` ; do
      /path/to/mailman/bin/inject -l $list $list/$msg
   done
done

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From peterc at northsld.org  Fri Feb  5 14:02:20 2016
From: peterc at northsld.org (Peter W. Caton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 19:02:20 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not being delivered
Message-ID: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F9AF70@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>

I have just setup a new Mailman server on Ubuntu.

With the help of list members, I have got the web GUI working.

Now, I have discovered that when I send new messages to the one list I have, e-mails are not being delivered.

I did receive the initial e-mail that the list was setup.  However, none of the list members are receiving any new e-mails posted to the list.

I have checked the Archives, and no messages are being received (No messages have been posted to this list yet, so the archives are currently empty).

Here is what I see in the mail.log:

Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table

Any thoughts on how to fix this issue?

Thank you.

Peter W. Caton

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  5 14:15:06 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 11:15:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not being delivered
In-Reply-To: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F9AF70@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>
References: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F9AF70@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>
Message-ID: <56B4F4BA.8030406@msapiro.net>

On 02/05/2016 11:02 AM, Peter W. Caton wrote:
> 
> Here is what I see in the mail.log:
> 
> Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table

You don't have aliases and/or virtual mappings set up in your MTA. See
item 3) in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4030723>.

Note: if your MTA is Postfix, alias generation and virtual mapping
generation if required can be automated. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-integration.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From henry at Aegis00.com  Fri Feb  5 14:38:34 2016
From: henry at Aegis00.com (Henry Yen)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:38:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS: Forbidden You
 don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman on this
 server
In-Reply-To: <56B386F7.8030703@msapiro.net>
References: <BBCE07736D8CDB4DBD1FF364951DB1E102F97ADA@LPSVREX01.nsld.lib.il.us>
 <56B386F7.8030703@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20160205193834.GS28629@nntp.AegisInfoSys.com>

On Thu, Feb 04, 2016 at 09:14:31AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Check /etc/apache2/mods-enabled. There should be a symlink
> 
> cgi.load -> ../mods-available/cgi.load
> 
> If it's not there, do
> 
> cd /etc/apache2/mods-enabled
> ln -s ../mods-available/cgi.load cgi.load

On debian systems, Apache2 comes with some commands to do this more portably.
Presumably.

   a2enmod/a2dismod/a2ensite/a2dissite

-- 
Henry Yen                                       Aegis Information Systems, Inc.
Senior Systems Programmer                       Hicksville, New York

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Feb  5 22:57:48 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 12:57:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman/sendmail process /var/spool/mail content
In-Reply-To: <56B4D527.1070206@msapiro.net>
References: <56B4BCAA.2070001@ebi.ac.uk>
	<56B4D527.1070206@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <22197.28476.746614.2099@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > On 02/05/2016 07:15 AM, ssn at ebi.ac.uk wrote:
 > > 
 > > We had an issue with the mailman server which is now back and running,
 > > mqueue is empty however /var/spool/mail contains many hundreds of files
 > > containing an email that was not posted during the period we had an
 > > issue. Is there way to process these with mailman?
 > 
 > 
 > So during some period, the MTA was delivering list mail to mboxes in
 > /var/spool/mail instead of to Mailman. Is that correct?

It sounds to me like this is Sendmail's out queue.  I don't use
Sendmail so don't know how its queues are structured in the
filesystem, but the OP makes it sound like many copies of *one* post
("an email").

What system user is listed as the owner of the files?  What are the
names of the files?  Are they readable, related to the lists or other
addresses?  Or are they UUIDs or hashes or serial numbers?

Check the files for the presence of Mailman-specific headers
(List-Post, List-Id, X-Been-There, X-Mailman-Version, etc).  If
any such header is present, Mailman has already processed the post.
However, Mailman should never touch /var/spool/mail.

If it is Sendmail's doing, you would use Sendmail, not Mailman, to
process the messages, and you wouldn't just do "sendmail -t < FILE".
If it's Sendmail's normal queue, Sendmail has a command to retry
(maybe "flush") the queue (although that should happen automatically).
If it's some sort of last resort configuration to ensure delivery of
the message SOMEWHERE, ANYWHERE, I have no idea.



From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  5 23:48:24 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 20:48:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman/sendmail process /var/spool/mail content
In-Reply-To: <22197.28476.746614.2099@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <56B4BCAA.2070001@ebi.ac.uk> <56B4D527.1070206@msapiro.net>
 <22197.28476.746614.2099@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <56B57B18.6000108@msapiro.net>

On 02/05/2016 07:57 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Mark Sapiro writes:
>  > 
>  > So during some period, the MTA was delivering list mail to mboxes in
>  > /var/spool/mail instead of to Mailman. Is that correct?
> 
> It sounds to me like this is Sendmail's out queue.  I don't use
> Sendmail so don't know how its queues are structured in the
> filesystem, but the OP makes it sound like many copies of *one* post
> ("an email").


I agree, it's not clear, but /var/spool/mail is normally the directory
where MTAs deliver mail for local users absent aliasing to the contrary.
I.e. incoming mail for local user 'mark' is added to the mbox at
/var/spool/mail/mark or in some cases /var/spool/mail/mark/ might be a
maildir with cur/, new/ and tmp/ subdirectories containing individual
messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Feb  7 21:37:27 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 11:37:27 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman/sendmail process /var/spool/mail content
In-Reply-To: <56B57B18.6000108@msapiro.net>
References: <56B4BCAA.2070001@ebi.ac.uk> <56B4D527.1070206@msapiro.net>
 <22197.28476.746614.2099@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56B57B18.6000108@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <22199.65383.907180.923164@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > I agree, it's not clear,

Oh, I don't mean your interpretation is implausible.  I just wanted to
make sure my alternative was on the table because he mentioned
"hundreds".  If they really were all of one post, automatically
sending them all could easily result in a loop back to Mailman and a
major spam of the users, and possibly exceeding the host's capacity
(no matter how you look at it this is very weird behvior for sendmail
or Mailman unless the OP misreported the spool directory).

From walter at ifkuk.org  Tue Feb  9 07:43:47 2016
From: walter at ifkuk.org (walter at ifkuk.org)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 13:43:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix to mailman: User doesn't exist/relay access
 denied
Message-ID: <56B9DF03.7080701@ifkuk.org>

dovecot/postfix/mailman

when I try to send from an internal emailaddress (managed by the
serveritself) I get an "User doesn't exist" error
if I send an email from an external service like gmail, I get "relay
access denied".

/etc/postfix/main.conf

#See /usr/share/postfix/main.cf.dist for a commented, more complete version
inet_interfaces = all

# Debian specific:  Specifying a file name will cause the first
# line of that file to be used as the name.  The Debian default
# is /etc/mailname.
#myorigin = /etc/mailname

smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP (Debian/GNU)
biff = no

# appending .domain is the MUA's job.
append_dot_mydomain = no

# Uncomment the next line to generate "delayed mail" warnings
#delay_warning_time = 4h

readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix

# TLS parameters
#smtpd_tls_cert_file=/etc/ssl/certs/mailserver.cert.pem
#smtpd_tls_key_file=/etc/ssl/private/mailserver.key.pem
smtpd_tls_cert_file=/etc/letsencrypt/live/mail.ifkuk.org/fullchain.pem
#smtp_tls_cert_file=/etc/letsencrypt/live/mail.ifkuk.org/fullchain.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file=/etc/letsencrypt/live/mail.ifkuk.org/privkey.pem
#smtp_tls_key_file=/etc/letsencrypt/live/mail.ifkuk.org/privkey.pem


smtpd_use_tls=yes
smtpd_tls_auth_only = yes
#smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtpd_scache
#smtp_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtp_scache

#Enabling SMTP for authenticated users, and handing off authentication to Dovecot
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_type = dovecot
smtpd_sasl_path = private/auth
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
#smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated reject_unauth_destination
#smtpd_relay_restrictions = permit_mynetworks permit_sasl_authenticated reject_unauth_destination reject_sender_login_mismatch
#smtpd_relay_restrictions =
#    permit_mynetworks
#    permit_sasl_authenticated
#    reject_unauth_destination
smtpd_recipient_restrictions =
        permit_sasl_authenticated,
        permit_mynetworks,
        reject_unauth_destination
#smtpd_recipient_restrictions = reject_non_fqdn_recipient, permit_sasl_authenticated, permit_mynetworks, reject_unauth_destination, reject_unlisted_recipient, reject_non_fqdn_sender, permit
smtpd_sender_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated,
    permit_mynetworks,

#smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit
#smtpd_sender_restrictions = permit

#smtpd_milters = unix:/spamass/spamass.sock
#milter_connect_macros = j {daemon_name} v {if_name} _
#milter_default_action = tempfail

# See /usr/share/doc/postfix/TLS_README.gz in the postfix-doc package for
# information on enabling SSL in the smtp client.


myhostname = mail.ifkuk.org
mydomain = ifkuk.org
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
#alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
myorigin = /etc/mailname

mydestination = localhost,localhost.localdomain,$myhostname,localhost.$mydomain
#relayhost =
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128
mailbox_command = procmail -a "$EXTENSION"
mailbox_size_limit = 0
recipient_delimiter = +
inet_interfaces = all

#settings especially important for mailman - walter
#relay_domains = lists.ifkuk.org
relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
#transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport, pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_transports.cf
#mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1

#Handing off local delivery to Dovecot's LMTP, and telling it where to store mail
virtual_transport = lmtp:unix:private/dovecot-lmtp
#transport_maps = pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_transports.cf
virtual_alias_domains =
virtual_alias_maps = proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_forwardings.cf,pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_email2email.cf,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
virtual_email2email = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
virtual_mailbox_domains = proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_domains.cf
virtual_mailbox_maps = proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_mailboxes.cf
#virtual_mailbox_base = /var/mail
#virtual_uid_maps = static:5000
#virtual_gid_maps = static:5000

#virtual_transport=dovecot
#dovecot_destination_recipient_limit=1

#smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
#smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
#smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $myhostname
#smtpd_sasl_application_name = smtpd
#broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes

#smtpd_recipient_restrictions =
#   permit_sasl_authenticated,
#   permit_mynetworks,
#   check_relay_domains
#html_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix/html
html_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix/html
smtpd_relay_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated, permit_mynetworks, reject_unauth_destination



/etc/postfix/master.cfg

#mailman   unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
#  flags=FR user=list argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py ${nexthop} ${user}



/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py

from Defaults import *

##############################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . #
# See Defaults.py for explanations of the values.            #

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The name of the list Mailman uses to send password reminders
# and similar. Don't change if you want mailman-owner to be
# a valid local part.
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# If you change these, you have to configure your http server
# accordingly (Alias and ScriptAlias directives in most httpds)
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/'
IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.ifkuk.org'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default host for web interface of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'lists.ifkuk.org'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Required when setting any of its arguments.
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The default language for this server.
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Iirc this was used in pre 2.1, leave it for now
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Unset send_reminders on newly created lists
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
# automatically recognizes newly created lists.
# (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian or
# /usr/share/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py)
# MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains (but not
# postfix-to-mailman.py), but be sure to see
# /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Debian first.
MTA='Postfix'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you want to filter mail with SpamAssassin. For
# more information please visit this website:
# http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/
# GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg, but you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.


POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.ifkuk.org']


/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

# This file is generated by Mailman, and is kept in sync with the

# binary hash file aliases.db.  YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE
# unless you know what you're doing, and can keep the two files properly
# in sync.  If you screw it up, you're on your own.

# The ultimate loop stopper address
mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Thu Jan 28 19:56:43 2016
mailman:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

# STANZA START: test
# CREATED: Thu Jan 28 19:56:43 2016
test:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
test-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin test"
test-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces test"
test-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm test"
test-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join test"
test-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave test"
test-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner test"
test-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request test"
test-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe test"
test-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe test"
# STANZA END: test



/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

# This file is generated by Mailman, and is kept in sync with the binary hash
# file virtual-mailman.db.  YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE unless you
# know what you're doing, and can keep the two files properly in sync.  If you
# screw it up, you're on your own.
#
# Note that you should already have this virtual domain set up properly in
# your Postfix installation.  See README.POSTFIX for details.

# LOOP ADDRESSES START
mailman-loop at lists.ifkuk.org    mailman-loop
# LOOP ADDRESSES END

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Thu Jan 28 19:56:43 2016
mailman at lists.ifkuk.org              mailman
mailman-admin at lists.ifkuk.org        mailman-admin
mailman-bounces at lists.ifkuk.org      mailman-bounces
mailman-confirm at lists.ifkuk.org      mailman-confirm
mailman-join at lists.ifkuk.org         mailman-join
mailman-leave at lists.ifkuk.org        mailman-leave
mailman-owner at lists.ifkuk.org        mailman-owner
mailman-request at lists.ifkuk.org      mailman-request
mailman-subscribe at lists.ifkuk.org    mailman-subscribe
mailman-unsubscribe at lists.ifkuk.org  mailman-unsubscribe
# STANZA END: mailman

# STANZA START: test
# CREATED: Thu Jan 28 19:56:43 2016
test at lists.ifkuk.org              test
test-admin at lists.ifkuk.org        test-admin
test-bounces at lists.ifkuk.org      test-bounces
test-confirm at lists.ifkuk.org      test-confirm
test-join at lists.ifkuk.org         test-join
test-leave at lists.ifkuk.org        test-leave
test-owner at lists.ifkuk.org        test-owner
test-request at lists.ifkuk.org      test-request
test-subscribe at lists.ifkuk.org    test-subscribe
test-unsubscribe at lists.ifkuk.org  test-unsubscribe
# STANZA END: test

 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  9 12:48:08 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 09:48:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix to mailman: User doesn't exist/relay
 access denied
In-Reply-To: <56B9DF03.7080701@ifkuk.org>
References: <56B9DF03.7080701@ifkuk.org>
Message-ID: <56BA2658.1060804@msapiro.net>

On 02/09/2016 04:43 AM, walter at ifkuk.org wrote:
> dovecot/postfix/mailman
> 
> when I try to send from an internal emailaddress (managed by the
> serveritself) I get an "User doesn't exist" error
> if I send an email from an external service like gmail, I get "relay
> access denied".


Please post the Postfix /var/log/mail.log messages resulting from each
of these failed delivery scenarios (1 set per scenario).


> /etc/postfix/main.conf


Looks OK offhand. The output from 'postconf -n' tells us all we need and
is much more readable.


...
> virtual_alias_domains =

Maybe something here?


> virtual_alias_maps = proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_forwardings.cf,pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_email2email.cf,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> virtual_email2email = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

What is this? virtual_email2email is not a documented Postfix main.cf
parameter?



> /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py
...
> #-------------------------------------------------------------
> # Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains (but not
> # postfix-to-mailman.py), but be sure to see
> # /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Debian first.
> MTA='Postfix'


Good.

...
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.ifkuk.org']

Good.

> /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases


Looks OK


> /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

Looks OK.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Feb  9 14:30:34 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 04:30:34 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix to mailman: User doesn't exist/relay access
 denied
In-Reply-To: <56B9DF03.7080701@ifkuk.org>
References: <56B9DF03.7080701@ifkuk.org>
Message-ID: <22202.15962.682362.258002@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

walter at ifkuk.org writes:
 > dovecot/postfix/mailman
 > 
 > when I try to send from an internal emailaddress (managed by the
 > serveritself) I get an "User doesn't exist" error
 > if I send an email from an external service like gmail, I get "relay
 > access denied".

I don't use Postfix, so this is just a guess, but it looks to me like
Postfix thinks that lists.ifkuk.org is an independent domain.  Maybe
try putting it in mydestinations?  (I don't think just having it in
postfix-style-virtual-domains is enough?)

The other thing that caught my eye is that there seems to be a lot of
security oriented configuration.  It's very easy to be so "secure"
that even the owner can't get in.


From walter at ifkuk.org  Tue Feb  9 15:46:10 2016
From: walter at ifkuk.org (walter at ifkuk.org)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 21:46:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix to mailman: User doesn't exist/relay
 access denied
In-Reply-To: <56BA2658.1060804@msapiro.net>
References: <56B9DF03.7080701@ifkuk.org> <56BA2658.1060804@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56BA5012.5090408@ifkuk.org>


On 09/02/2016 18:48, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 02/09/2016 04:43 AM, walter at ifkuk.org wrote:
>> dovecot/postfix/mailman
>>
>> when I try to send from an internal emailaddress (managed by the
>> serveritself) I get an "User doesn't exist" error
>> if I send an email from an external service like gmail, I get "relay
>> access denied".
>
> Please post the Postfix /var/log/mail.log messages resulting from each
> of these failed delivery scenarios (1 set per scenario).

The first one is from my gmail address, its quite long,
but I left everything in, cause I dont know what could be of help

Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 220 mail.ifkuk.org ESMTP (Debian/GNU)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: < 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: EHLO mail-wm0-f50.google.com
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_list_match: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com: no match
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_list_match: 
74.125.82.50: no match
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-mail.ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-PIPELINING
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-SIZE 10240000
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-VRFY
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-ETRN
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-STARTTLS
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-8BITMIME
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250 DSN
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: < 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: STARTTLS
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 220 2.0.0 Ready to start TLS
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr request = seed
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr size = 32
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/tlsmgr: wanted 
attribute: status
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: status
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: 0
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/tlsmgr: wanted 
attribute: seed
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: seed
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: 
T2mAX0kBTKTyCDJic2PDtByPzNboSTVuXXOcpDDjaSI=
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/tlsmgr: wanted 
attribute: (list terminator)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: (end)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr request = tktkey
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr keyname = [data 0 
bytes]
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/tlsmgr: wanted 
attribute: status
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: status
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: 0
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/tlsmgr: wanted 
attribute: keybuf
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: keybuf
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: 
yy+Wx5GCj3kRQ9vZxx3Fgn7XEpwKZSY84Vy9oOEuhhzoQqiZxp1XIO+H5gIkdWnDAUq6VgAAAAA=
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/tlsmgr: wanted 
attribute: (list terminator)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: (end)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: xsasl_dovecot_server_create: 
SASL service=smtp, realm=(null)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: name_mask: noanonymous
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: 
xsasl_dovecot_server_connect: Connecting
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk dovecot: auth: Debug: auth client connected (pid=0)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: 
xsasl_dovecot_server_connect: auth reply: VERSION?1?1
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: 
xsasl_dovecot_server_connect: auth reply: MECH?PLAIN?plaintext
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: name_mask: plaintext
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: 
xsasl_dovecot_server_connect: auth reply: MECH?LOGIN?plaintext
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: name_mask: plaintext
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: 
xsasl_dovecot_server_connect: auth reply: SPID?55327
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: 
xsasl_dovecot_server_connect: auth reply: CUID?11220
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: 
xsasl_dovecot_server_connect: auth reply: 
COOKIE?62301eb549511d91aa380c208689be41
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: 
xsasl_dovecot_server_connect: auth reply: DONE
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: 
xsasl_dovecot_server_mech_filter: keep mechanism: PLAIN
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: 
xsasl_dovecot_server_mech_filter: keep mechanism: LOGIN
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: < 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: EHLO mail-wm0-f50.google.com
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_list_match: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com: no match
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_list_match: 
74.125.82.50: no match
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-mail.ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-PIPELINING
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-SIZE 10240000
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-VRFY
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-ETRN
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-AUTH PLAIN LOGIN
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-AUTH=PLAIN LOGIN
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250-8BITMIME
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250 DSN
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: < 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: MAIL FROM:<neubau at gmail.com> 
SIZE=2528
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: extract_addr: input: 
<neubau at gmail.com>
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: smtpd_check_addr: 
addr=neubau at gmail.com
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: connect to subsystem 
private/rewrite
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr request = rewrite
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr rule = local
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr address = 
neubau at gmail.com
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: flags
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: flags
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: 0
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: address
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: address
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: 
neubau at gmail.com
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: (list terminator)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: (end)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: rewrite_clnt: local: 
neubau at gmail.com -> neubau at gmail.com
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr request = resolve
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr sender =
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr address = 
neubau at gmail.com
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: flags
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: flags
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: 0
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: transport
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: transport
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: smtp
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: nexthop
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: nexthop
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: gmail.com
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: recipient
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: recipient
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: 
neubau at gmail.com
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: flags
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: flags
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: 4096
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: (list terminator)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: (end)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: resolve_clnt: `' -> 
`neubau at gmail.com' -> transp=`smtp' host=`gmail.com' 
rcpt=`neubau at gmail.com' flags= class=default
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: ctable_locate: install entry 
key neubau at gmail.com
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: extract_addr: in: 
<neubau at gmail.com>, result: neubau at gmail.com
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr request = rewrite
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr rule = local
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr address = 
double-bounce
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: flags
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: flags
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: 0
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: address
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: address
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: 
double-bounce at ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: (list terminator)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: (end)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: rewrite_clnt: local: 
double-bounce -> double-bounce at ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: smtpd_check_rewrite: trying: 
permit_inet_interfaces
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: permit_inet_interfaces: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com 74.125.82.50
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: fsspace: .: block size 4096, 
blocks free 671552
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: smtpd_check_queue: blocks 
4096 avail 671552 min_free 0 msg_size_limit 10240000
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 250 2.1.0 Ok
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: < 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: RCPT TO:<test at lists.ifkuk.org>
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: extract_addr: input: 
<test at lists.ifkuk.org>
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: smtpd_check_addr: 
addr=test at lists.ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr request = rewrite
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr rule = local
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr address = 
test at lists.ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: flags
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: flags
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: 0
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: address
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: address
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: 
test at lists.ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/rewrite socket: 
wanted attribute: (list terminator)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: resolve_clnt: `' -> 
`test at lists.ifkuk.org' -> transp=`smtp'  host=`lists.ifkuk.org' 
rcpt=`test at lists.ifkuk.org' flags= class=default
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: ctable_locate: install entry 
key test at lists.ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: extract_addr: in: 
<test at lists.ifkuk.org>, result: test at lists.ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: >>> START Sender address 
RESTRICTIONS <<<
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: generic_checks: 
name=permit_sasl_authenticated
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: generic_checks: 
name=permit_sasl_authenticated status=0
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: generic_checks: 
name=permit_mynetworks
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: permit_mynetworks: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com 74.125.82.50
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostname: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com ~? 127.0.0.0/8
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostaddr: 74.125.82.50 
~? 127.0.0.0/8
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostname: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com ~? [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostaddr: 74.125.82.50 
~? [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostname: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com ~? [::1]/128
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostaddr: 74.125.82.50 
~? [::1]/128
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_list_match: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com: no match
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_list_match: 
74.125.82.50: no match
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: generic_checks: 
name=permit_mynetworks status=0
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: >>> END Sender address 
RESTRICTIONS <<<
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: >>> START Recipient address 
RESTRICTIONS <<<
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: generic_checks: 
name=permit_sasl_authenticated
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: generic_checks: 
name=permit_sasl_authenticated status=0
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: generic_checks: 
name=permit_mynetworks
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: permit_mynetworks: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com 74.125.82.50
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostname: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com ~? 127.0.0.0/8
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostaddr: 74.125.82.50 
~? 127.0.0.0/8
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostname: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com ~? [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostaddr: 74.125.82.50 
~? [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostname: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com ~? [::1]/128
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostaddr: 74.125.82.50 
~? [::1]/128
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_list_match: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com: no match
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_list_match: 
74.125.82.50: no match
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: generic_checks: 
name=permit_mynetworks status=0
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: generic_checks: 
name=reject_unauth_destination
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: reject_unauth_destination: 
test at lists.ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: permit_auth_destination: 
test at lists.ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: ctable_locate: leave 
existing entry key test at lists.ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 554 5.7.1 <test at lists.ifkuk.org>: 
Relay access denied; from=<neubau at gmail.com> to=<test at lists.ifkuk.org> 
proto=ESMTP helo=<mail-wm0-f50.google.com>
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: generic_checks: 
name=reject_unauth_destination status=2
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: >>> END Recipient address 
RESTRICTIONS <<<
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 554 5.7.1 <test at lists.ifkuk.org>: 
Relay access denied
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: < 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: DATA
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 554 5.5.1 Error: no valid recipients
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: < 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: QUIT
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: > 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 221 2.0.0 Bye
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostname: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com ~? 127.0.0.0/8
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostaddr: 74.125.82.50 
~? 127.0.0.0/8
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostname: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com ~? [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostaddr: 74.125.82.50 
~? [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostname: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com ~? [::1]/128
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_hostaddr: 74.125.82.50 
~? [::1]/128
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_list_match: 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com: no match
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: match_list_match: 
74.125.82.50: no match
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr request = disconnect
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: send attr ident = 
smtp:74.125.82.50
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/anvil: wanted 
attribute: status
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: status
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute value: 0
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: private/anvil: wanted 
attribute: (list terminator)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: input attribute name: (end)
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: disconnect from 
mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: master_notify: status 1
Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: connection closed
Feb  9 20:50:22 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: proxymap stream disconnect
Feb  9 20:50:23 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: auto_clnt_close: disconnect 
private/tlsmgr stream
Feb  9 20:50:23 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: rewrite stream disconnect



This is the internal address.


Feb  9 20:50:23 ifkuk postfix/submission/smtpd[22443]: connect from 
77.119.128.XXX.wireless.dyn.drei.com[77.119.128.XXX]
Feb  9 20:50:24 ifkuk dovecot: auth: Debug: auth client connected (pid=0)
Feb  9 20:50:25 ifkuk dovecot: auth: Debug: client in: 
AUTH#0111#011PLAIN#011service=smtp#011nologin#011lip=89.185.96.XXX#011rip=77.119.128.XXX#011secured#011resp=<hidden>
Feb  9 20:50:25 ifkuk dovecot: auth: Debug: 
sql(walter at ifkuk.org,77.119.128.XXX): query: SELECT email as user, 
password FROM users WHERE email='walter at ifkuk.org';
Feb  9 20:50:25 ifkuk dovecot: auth: Debug: client passdb out: 
OK#0111#011user=walter at ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:26 ifkuk postfix/submission/smtpd[22443]: 2EABF3685: 
client=77.119.128.XXX.wireless.dyn.drei.com[77.119.128.XXX], 
sasl_method=PLAIN, sasl_username=walter at ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:26 ifkuk postfix/cleanup[22418]: 2EABF3685: 
message-id=<56BA42FA.9080307 at ifkuk.org>
Feb  9 20:50:26 ifkuk postfix/qmgr[22386]: 2EABF3685: 
from=<walter at ifkuk.org>, size=587, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Feb  9 20:50:26 ifkuk dovecot: lmtp(22434): Connect from local
Feb  9 20:50:26 ifkuk dovecot: auth: Debug: master in: 
USER#0112#011test at ifkuk.org#011service=lmtp
Feb  9 20:50:26 ifkuk dovecot: auth: Debug: sql(test at ifkuk.org): query: 
SELECT email as user, password FROM users WHERE email='test at ifkuk.org';
Feb  9 20:50:26 ifkuk dovecot: auth: sql(test at ifkuk.org): unknown user
Feb  9 20:50:26 ifkuk dovecot: auth: Debug: userdb out: NOTFOUND#0112
Feb  9 20:50:27 ifkuk postfix/lmtp[22428]: 2EABF3685: 
to=<test at ifkuk.org>, orig_to=<test at lists.ifkuk.org>, 
relay=mail.ifkuk.org[private/dovecot-lmtp], delay=1.1, 
delays=0.9/0/0/0.25, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (host 
mail.ifkuk.org[private/dovecot-lmtp] said: 550 5.1.1 <test at ifkuk.org> 
User doesn't exist: test at ifkuk.org
Feb  9 20:50:27 ifkuk dovecot: lmtp(22434): Disconnect from local: 
Successful quit
Feb  9 20:50:27 ifkuk postfix/cleanup[22429]: 0B7BC3688: 
message-id=<20160209195027.0B7BC3688 at mail.ifkuk.org>
Feb  9 20:50:27 ifkuk postfix/qmgr[22386]: 0B7BC3688: from=<>, 
size=2546, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Feb  9 20:50:27 ifkuk postfix/bounce[22431]: 2EABF3685: sender 
non-delivery notification: 0B7BC3688
Feb  9 20:50:27 ifkuk postfix/qmgr[22386]: 2EABF3685: removed



>
>> /etc/postfix/main.conf
>
> Looks OK offhand. The output from 'postconf -n' tells us all we need and
> is much more readable.
>
>
here you go:


alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases,hash:/etc/aliases
append_dot_mydomain = no
biff = no
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
config_directory = /etc/postfix
html_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix/html
inet_interfaces = all
mailbox_command = procmail -a "$EXTENSION"
mailbox_size_limit = 0
mydestination = 
localhost,localhost.localdomain,$myhostname,localhost.$mydomain
mydomain = ifkuk.org
myhostname = mail.ifkuk.org
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128
myorigin = /etc/mailname
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP (Debian/GNU)
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated, 
permit_mynetworks, reject_unauth_destination
smtpd_relay_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated, permit_mynetworks, 
reject_unauth_destination
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_path = private/auth
smtpd_sasl_type = dovecot
smtpd_sender_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated, permit_mynetworks,
smtpd_tls_auth_only = yes
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/letsencrypt/live/mail.ifkuk.org/fullchain.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/letsencrypt/live/mail.ifkuk.org/privkey.pem
smtpd_use_tls = yes
virtual_alias_domains =
virtual_alias_maps = 
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman,proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_forwardings.cf,pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_email2email.cf
virtual_mailbox_domains = proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_domains.cf
virtual_mailbox_maps = proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_mailboxes.cf
virtual_transport = lmtp:unix:private/dovecot-lmtp

>> virtual_alias_domains =
> Maybe something here?
if I add lists.ifkuk.org there, I get the unknown user error also when 
sending from the gmail address.
I've left it out for now.

>
>> virtual_alias_maps = proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_forwardings.cf,pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_email2email.cf,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>> virtual_email2email = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> What is this? virtual_email2email is not a documented Postfix main.cf
> parameter?
>
>
i ve already removed it, it was in some 'how to', but obviously didnt help.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  9 16:24:28 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 13:24:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix to mailman: User doesn't exist/relay
 access denied
In-Reply-To: <56BA5012.5090408@ifkuk.org>
References: <56B9DF03.7080701@ifkuk.org> <56BA2658.1060804@msapiro.net>
 <56BA5012.5090408@ifkuk.org>
Message-ID: <56BA590C.1090400@msapiro.net>

On 02/09/2016 12:46 PM, walter at ifkuk.org wrote:
> 
> On 09/02/2016 18:48, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>>
>> Please post the Postfix /var/log/mail.log messages resulting from each
>> of these failed delivery scenarios (1 set per scenario).
> 
> The first one is from my gmail address, its quite long,
> but I left everything in, cause I dont know what could be of help
> 
...
> Feb  9 20:50:18 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[22439]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
> mail-wm0-f50.google.com[74.125.82.50]: 554 5.7.1 <test at lists.ifkuk.org>:
> Relay access denied; from=<neubau at gmail.com> to=<test at lists.ifkuk.org>


This is because you don't have lists.ifkuk.org in virtual_alias_domains.
See below.


> This is the internal address.
> 
> 
...
> Feb  9 20:50:27 ifkuk postfix/lmtp[22428]: 2EABF3685:
> to=<test at ifkuk.org>, orig_to=<test at lists.ifkuk.org>,
> relay=mail.ifkuk.org[private/dovecot-lmtp], delay=1.1,
> delays=0.9/0/0/0.25, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (host
> mail.ifkuk.org[private/dovecot-lmtp] said: 550 5.1.1 <test at ifkuk.org>
> User doesn't exist: test at ifkuk.org


This is because you are using Dovecot for local mail delivery and
Dovecot doesn't use aliases so it doesn't know how to deliver to test.



> 
>>
>>> /etc/postfix/main.conf
>>
>> Looks OK offhand. The output from 'postconf -n' tells us all we need and
>> is much more readable.
>>
>>
> here you go:
> 
> 
> alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases,hash:/etc/aliases
> append_dot_mydomain = no
> biff = no
> broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
> config_directory = /etc/postfix
> html_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix/html
> inet_interfaces = all
> mailbox_command = procmail -a "$EXTENSION"
> mailbox_size_limit = 0
> mydestination =
> localhost,localhost.localdomain,$myhostname,localhost.$mydomain
> mydomain = ifkuk.org
> myhostname = mail.ifkuk.org
> mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128
> myorigin = /etc/mailname
> queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
> readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix
> recipient_delimiter = +
> relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP (Debian/GNU)
> smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated,
> permit_mynetworks, reject_unauth_destination
> smtpd_relay_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated, permit_mynetworks,
> reject_unauth_destination
> smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
> smtpd_sasl_path = private/auth
> smtpd_sasl_type = dovecot
> smtpd_sender_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated, permit_mynetworks,
> smtpd_tls_auth_only = yes
> smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/letsencrypt/live/mail.ifkuk.org/fullchain.pem
> smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/letsencrypt/live/mail.ifkuk.org/privkey.pem
> smtpd_use_tls = yes
> virtual_alias_domains =
> virtual_alias_maps =
> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman,proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_forwardings.cf,pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_email2email.cf
> 
> virtual_mailbox_domains = proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_domains.cf
> virtual_mailbox_maps = proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_mailboxes.cf
> virtual_transport = lmtp:unix:private/dovecot-lmtp
> 
>>> virtual_alias_domains =
>> Maybe something here?
> if I add lists.ifkuk.org there, I get the unknown user error also when
> sending from the gmail address.
> I've left it out for now.


You have two problems.

The first is your external mail is not being delivered because Postfix
hasn't been told lists.ifkuk.org is a domain it can deliver to so it
thinks it's a relay domain and won't relay from an external domain. It
you add lists.ifkuk.org to virtual_alias_domains, Postfix will know it
can accept mail for that domain and will map 'test at lists.ifkuk.org' to
the local user 'test' via the mapping in
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.

Then you encounter the second problem which is the local user 'test' is
supposed to be delivered to mailman via the

test:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test"

alias in /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases, but delivery for this domain is
handled by Dovecot because of

virtual_transport = lmtp:unix:private/dovecot-lmtp

and Dovecot doesn't do aliases.

So, you have two choices depending on why you are using Dovecot for
local delivery.

If this is a new server, and all of

> virtual_alias_domains =
> virtual_alias_maps =
> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman,proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_forwardings.cf,pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_email2email.cf
> 
> virtual_mailbox_domains = proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_domains.cf
> virtual_mailbox_maps = proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_mailboxes.cf
> virtual_transport = lmtp:unix:private/dovecot-lmtp

is something that you just inherited from some default or some how-to
document, I'd suggest removing it and going with something simpler like

virtual_alias_domains = lists.ifkuk.org
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

plus whatever else you actually need.

If this is an existing server and Dovecot delivery is important, follow
the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/10715238>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From fmouse at fmp.com  Tue Feb  9 19:32:31 2016
From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 18:32:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Improper token substitution? Or something else?
Message-ID: <1455064351.78072.151.camel@pudina.fmp.com>

I've noticed that in our Mailman installations here we're getting some
odd addresses showing up in different places. For instance, the
"Welcome" web page contains:

"If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact
mailman at list_hostname.tld." [list_hostname.tld is any list's FQDN]

"mailman" is not the name of the list for which "list_hostname.tld" is
the FQDN of the list, and this address will bounce.

A similar situation happens with the monthly reminder messages for which
userpass.txt is the template. The text going out contains:

"If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to
mailman-owner at list_hostname.tld."

Again, this bounces - "listname-owner at list_hostname.tld" would not.

This is happening on two different Mailman installations, running 2.1.18
and 2.1.18-1.

Do I have a misconfiguration here? The comments in the source indicate
that these token replacements insert _site_ information rather than
_list_ information, so maybe this is the expected behavior. Do I need to
set up a "mailman" address alias for _each_ virtual host on the system
so that these addresses will work? This is doable, but is it documented?

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "The first casualty when
FMP Computer Services |         war comes is truth."
512-259-1190          |            
http://www.fmp.com    |     -- Hiram W Johnson


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  9 20:07:01 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 17:07:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Improper token substitution? Or something else?
In-Reply-To: <1455064351.78072.151.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
References: <1455064351.78072.151.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <56BA8D35.1080707@msapiro.net>

On 02/09/2016 04:32 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> 
> "If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact
> mailman at list_hostname.tld." [list_hostname.tld is any list's FQDN]
> 
> "mailman" is not the name of the list for which "list_hostname.tld" is
> the FQDN of the list, and this address will bounce.
...
> This is happening on two different Mailman installations, running 2.1.18
> and 2.1.18-1.
> 
> Do I have a misconfiguration here? The comments in the source indicate
> that these token replacements insert _site_ information rather than
> _list_ information, so maybe this is the expected behavior. Do I need to
> set up a "mailman" address alias for _each_ virtual host on the system
> so that these addresses will work? This is doable, but is it documented?


If you are using Postfix, see the bug at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1459236>.

I.e., in the latest 2.1.21rc2 release, Postfix/Mailman integration will
create these virtual mappings. You may need to run bin/genaliases after
upgrade. The NEWS file says

- Mailman-Postfix integration will now add mailman at domain entries in
  data/virtual-mailman for each domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
  which is a host_name of a list.  This is so the addresses which are
  exposed on admin and listinfo overview pages of virtual domains will
  be deliverable.  (LP: #1459236)

For other MTAs or Postfix without Mailman-Postfix integration, you're on
your own for virtual mappings anyway. The need should probably be
documented, but where? The two places that come to mind are in
Defaults.py in the "Virtual domains" section or in the FAQ. Thoughts?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From fmouse at fmp.com  Tue Feb  9 20:25:23 2016
From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 19:25:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Improper token substitution? Or something else?
In-Reply-To: <56BA8D35.1080707@msapiro.net>
References: <1455064351.78072.151.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
 <56BA8D35.1080707@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1455067523.78072.160.camel@pudina.fmp.com>

On Tue, 2016-02-09 at 17:07 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I.e., in the latest 2.1.21rc2 release, Postfix/Mailman integration will
> create these virtual mappings. You may need to run bin/genaliases after
> upgrade. The NEWS file says
> 
> - Mailman-Postfix integration will now add mailman at domain entries in
>   data/virtual-mailman for each domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
>   which is a host_name of a list.  This is so the addresses which are
>   exposed on admin and listinfo overview pages of virtual domains will
>   be deliverable.  (LP: #1459236)
> 
> For other MTAs or Postfix without Mailman-Postfix integration, you're on
> your own for virtual mappings anyway. The need should probably be
> documented, but where? The two places that come to mind are in
> Defaults.py in the "Virtual domains" section or in the FAQ. Thoughts?

Hmmm. The MTA here is Courier-MTA. The virtual domains structure is
elegant in its simplicity, and very flexible.

~vmail/domains/list_hostname.tld/alias/.courier-listname - handles
redirection for listname at list_hostname.tld. Similarly,
~vmail/domains/list_hosthame.tld/alias/.courier-listname-default handles
everything else addressed to listname-whatever at list_hostname.tld, e.g.
listname-request at list_hostname.tld. It does this by redirecting to
~mailman/bin/courier-to-mailman.py, which I wrote based on
qmail-to-mailman.py and which is now part of the contrib section for
Mailman 2.x.

I'm not conversant with Postfix, but perhaps I can use this feature to
solve this problem.

Back to the drawing board ....... :(

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "The first casualty when
FMP Computer Services |         war comes is truth."
512-259-1190          |            
http://www.fmp.com    |     -- Hiram W Johnson


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  9 20:55:17 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 17:55:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Improper token substitution? Or something else?
In-Reply-To: <1455067523.78072.160.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
References: <1455064351.78072.151.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
 <56BA8D35.1080707@msapiro.net> <1455067523.78072.160.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <56BA9885.9080205@msapiro.net>

On 02/09/2016 05:25 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> 
> Hmmm. The MTA here is Courier-MTA. The virtual domains structure is
> elegant in its simplicity, and very flexible.
> 
> ~vmail/domains/list_hostname.tld/alias/.courier-listname - handles
> redirection for listname at list_hostname.tld. Similarly,
> ~vmail/domains/list_hosthame.tld/alias/.courier-listname-default handles
> everything else addressed to listname-whatever at list_hostname.tld, e.g.
> listname-request at list_hostname.tld. It does this by redirecting to
> ~mailman/bin/courier-to-mailman.py, which I wrote based on
> qmail-to-mailman.py and which is now part of the contrib section for
> Mailman 2.x.
> 
> I'm not conversant with Postfix, but perhaps I can use this feature to
> solve this problem.


Postfix is quite different in detail, but based on what you've said
above, the equivalent of what Postfix will now do would be to just create

~vmail/domains/list_hostname.tld/alias/.courier-mailman

with the appropriate

|/usr/bin/preline @prefix@/bin/courier-to-mailman.py

content for each list_hostname.tld. As I understand it, this wouldn't
require any courrier-to-mailman.py changes as it already knows how to
deliver to the 'mailman' list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From fmouse at fmp.com  Tue Feb  9 21:21:28 2016
From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 20:21:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Improper token substitution? Or something else?
In-Reply-To: <56BA9885.9080205@msapiro.net>
References: <1455064351.78072.151.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
 <56BA8D35.1080707@msapiro.net> <1455067523.78072.160.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
 <56BA9885.9080205@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1455070888.78072.165.camel@pudina.fmp.com>

On Tue, 2016-02-09 at 17:55 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Postfix is quite different in detail, but based on what you've said
> above, the equivalent of what Postfix will now do would be to just create
> 
> ~vmail/domains/list_hostname.tld/alias/.courier-mailman
> 
> with the appropriate
> 
> |/usr/bin/preline @prefix@/bin/courier-to-mailman.py
> 
> content for each list_hostname.tld. As I understand it, this wouldn't
> require any courrier-to-mailman.py changes as it already knows how to
> deliver to the 'mailman' list.

Brilliant, Mark!!

This was pretty much the result of my own thinking, too ;)

I shall make it so.

The only issue here is that in a few cases we have multiple lists using
the virtual domain list_hostname.tld, so the alias will have to
reference _all_ the lists using this virtual domain. This is doable.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "The first casualty when
FMP Computer Services |         war comes is truth."
512-259-1190          |            
http://www.fmp.com    |     -- Hiram W Johnson


From walter at ifkuk.org  Thu Feb 11 09:52:19 2016
From: walter at ifkuk.org (walter at ifkuk.org)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2016 15:52:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in relay
 recipient table
Message-ID: <56BCA023.7070602@ifkuk.org>

I ve got everything up and running, made a test at lists.ifkuk.org list
address, checked with several addresses, everything worked fine, went
off to go into production.

created my first list, invited all people, suddenly i got an error:
"Recipient address rejected: User unknown in relay recipient table"

my test at lists.ifkuk.org still works fine, so i made a second test list,
called walter at lists.ifkuk.org, and also there "Recipient address
rejected: User unknown in relay recipient table"

But test at lists.ifkuk.org and mailman at lists.ifkuk.org still working fine.
all are created the same way, by using the webfrontend (but the initial
mailman at lists.).

also restarting postfix and mailman did not help.


this is part of my mail.log:

Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: >>> CHECKING RECIPIENT MAPS <<<
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: ctable_locate: leave
existing entry key walter at lists.ifkuk.org
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: maps_find:
recipient_canonical_maps: walter at lists.ifkuk.org: not found
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? localhost
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? localhost.localdomain
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? mail.ifkuk.org
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? localhost.ifkuk.org
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_list_match:
lists.ifkuk.org: no match
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: maps_find:
recipient_canonical_maps: @lists.ifkuk.org: not found
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: mail_addr_find:
walter at lists.ifkuk.org -> (not found)
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: maps_find: canonical_maps:
walter at lists.ifkuk.org: not found
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? localhost
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? localhost.localdomain
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? mail.ifkuk.org
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? localhost.ifkuk.org
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_list_match:
lists.ifkuk.org: no match
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: maps_find: canonical_maps:
@lists.ifkuk.org: not found
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: mail_addr_find:
walter at lists.ifkuk.org -> (not found)
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: connect to subsystem
private/proxymap
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: send attr request = lookup
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: send attr table =
pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_forwardings.cf
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: send attr flags = 16448
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: send attr key =
walter at lists.ifkuk.org
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: private/proxymap socket:
wanted attribute: status
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: input attribute name: status
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: input attribute value: 1
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: private/proxymap socket:
wanted attribute: value
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: input attribute name: value
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: input attribute value: (end)
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: private/proxymap socket:
wanted attribute: (list terminator)
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: input attribute name: (end)
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: dict_proxy_lookup:
table=pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_forwardings.cf
flags=lock|fold_fix key=walter at lists.ifkuk.org -> status=1 result=
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: dict_pgsql_get_active: found
active connection to host 127.0.0.1:5432
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: dict_pgsql: successful query
from host 127.0.0.1:5432
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: dict_pgsql_lookup: retrieved
0 rows
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: maps_find:
virtual_alias_maps: walter at lists.ifkuk.org: not found
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? localhost
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? localhost.localdomain
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? mail.ifkuk.org
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? localhost.ifkuk.org
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_list_match:
lists.ifkuk.org: no match
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: send attr request = lookup
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: send attr table =
pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_forwardings.cf
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: send attr flags = 16448
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: send attr key = @lists.ifkuk.org
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: private/proxymap socket:
wanted attribute: status
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: input attribute name: status
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: input attribute value: 1
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: private/proxymap socket:
wanted attribute: value
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: input attribute name: value
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: input attribute value: (end)
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: private/proxymap socket:
wanted attribute: (list terminator)
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: input attribute name: (end)
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: dict_proxy_lookup:
table=pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql-virtual_forwardings.cf
flags=lock|fold_fix key=@lists.ifkuk.org -> status=1 result=
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: dict_pgsql_get_active: found
active connection to host 127.0.0.1:5432
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: dict_pgsql: successful query
from host 127.0.0.1:5432
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: dict_pgsql_lookup: retrieved
0 rows
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: maps_find:
virtual_alias_maps: @lists.ifkuk.org: not found
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: mail_addr_find:
walter at lists.ifkuk.org -> (not found)
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: maps_find:
relay_recipient_maps: walter at lists.ifkuk.org: not found
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? localhost
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? localhost.localdomain
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? mail.ifkuk.org
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_string:
lists.ifkuk.org ~? localhost.ifkuk.org
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: match_list_match:
lists.ifkuk.org: no match
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: maps_find:
relay_recipient_maps: @lists.ifkuk.org: not found
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: mail_addr_find:
walter at lists.ifkuk.org -> (not found)
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
mail.cwtech.at[89.185.96.4]: 550 5.1.1 <walter at lists.ifkuk.org>:
Recipient address rejected: User unknown in relay recipient table;
from=<walter at derWalter.com> to=<walter at lists.ifkuk.org> proto=ESMTP
helo=<mail.cwtech.at>
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: >
mail.cwtech.at[89.185.96.4]: 550 5.1.1 <walter at lists.ifkuk.org>:
Recipient address rejected: User unknown in relay recipient table
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: <
mail.cwtech.at[89.185.96.4]: DATA
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: >
mail.cwtech.at[89.185.96.4]: 554 5.5.1 Error: no valid recipients
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: <
mail.cwtech.at[89.185.96.4]: QUIT
Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: >
mail.cwtech.at[89.185.96.4]: 221 2.0.0 Bye



this is my aliases, where test works and walter and bitep dont!

# This file is generated by Mailman, and is kept in sync with the
# binary hash file aliases.db.  YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE
# unless you know what you're doing, and can keep the two files properly
# in sync.  If you screw it up, you're on your own.

# The ultimate loop stopper address
mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Thu Feb 11 12:52:22 2016
mailman:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

# STANZA START: test
# CREATED: Thu Feb 11 14:26:13 2016
test:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
test-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin test"
test-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces test"
test-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm test"
test-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join test"
test-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave test"
test-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner test"
test-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request test"
test-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe test"
test-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe test"
# STANZA END: test

# STANZA START: bitep
# CREATED: Thu Feb 11 14:38:07 2016
bitep:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post bitep"
bitep-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin bitep"
bitep-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces bitep"
bitep-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm bitep"
bitep-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join bitep"
bitep-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave bitep"
bitep-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner bitep"
bitep-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request bitep"
bitep-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe bitep"
bitep-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe bitep"
# STANZA END: bitep

# STANZA START: walter
# CREATED: Thu Feb 11 14:42:06 2016
walter:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post walter"
walter-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin walter"
walter-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces walter"
walter-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm walter"
walter-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join walter"
walter-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave walter"
walter-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner walter"
walter-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request walter"
walter-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe walter"
walter-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe walter"
# STANZA END: walter


my transport-mailman:
  GNU nano 2.2.6                         File:
aliases
# This file is generated by Mailman, and is kept in sync with the
# binary hash file aliases.db.  YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE
# unless you know what you're doing, and can keep the two files properly
# in sync.  If you screw it up, you're on your own.

# The ultimate loop stopper address
mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Thu Feb 11 12:52:22 2016
mailman:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

# STANZA START: test
# CREATED: Thu Feb 11 14:26:13 2016
test:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
test-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin test"
test-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces test"
test-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm test"
test-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join test"
test-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave test"
test-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner test"
test-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request test"
test-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe test"
test-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe test"
# STANZA END: test

# STANZA START: bitep
# CREATED: Thu Feb 11 14:38:07 2016
bitep:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post bitep"
bitep-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin bitep"
bitep-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces bitep"
bitep-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm bitep"
bitep-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join bitep"
bitep-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave bitep"
bitep-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner bitep"
bitep-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request bitep"
bitep-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe bitep"
bitep-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe bitep"
# STANZA END: bitep

# STANZA START: walter
# CREATED: Thu Feb 11 14:42:06 2016
walter:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post walter"
walter-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin walter"
walter-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces walter"
walter-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm walter"
walter-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join walter"
walter-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave walter"
walter-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner walter"
walter-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request walter"
walter-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe walter"
walter-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe walter"
# STANZA END: walter


my virtual-mailman

  GNU nano 2.2.6                         File:
aliases
# This file is generated by Mailman, and is kept in sync with the
# binary hash file aliases.db.  YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE
# unless you know what you're doing, and can keep the two files properly
# in sync.  If you screw it up, you're on your own.

# The ultimate loop stopper address
mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Thu Feb 11 12:52:22 2016
mailman:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

# STANZA START: test
# CREATED: Thu Feb 11 14:26:13 2016
test:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
test-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin test"
test-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces test"
test-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm test"
test-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join test"
test-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave test"
test-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner test"
test-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request test"
test-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe test"
test-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe test"
# STANZA END: test

# STANZA START: bitep
# CREATED: Thu Feb 11 14:38:07 2016
bitep:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post bitep"
bitep-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin bitep"
bitep-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces bitep"
bitep-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm bitep"
bitep-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join bitep"
bitep-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave bitep"
bitep-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner bitep"
bitep-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request bitep"
bitep-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe bitep"
bitep-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe bitep"
# STANZA END: bitep

# STANZA START: walter
# CREATED: Thu Feb 11 14:42:06 2016
walter:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post walter"
walter-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin walter"
walter-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces walter"
walter-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm walter"
walter-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join walter"
walter-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave walter"
walter-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner walter"
walter-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request walter"
walter-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe walter"
walter-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe walter"
# STANZA END: walter





From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 11 11:26:15 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2016 08:26:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
 relay recipient table
In-Reply-To: <56BCA023.7070602@ifkuk.org>
References: <56BCA023.7070602@ifkuk.org>
Message-ID: <56BCB627.9070203@msapiro.net>

On 02/11/2016 06:52 AM, walter at ifkuk.org wrote:
> 
> my test at lists.ifkuk.org still works fine, so i made a second test list,
> called walter at lists.ifkuk.org, and also there "Recipient address
> rejected: User unknown in relay recipient table"
> 
> But test at lists.ifkuk.org and mailman at lists.ifkuk.org still working fine.
> all are created the same way, by using the webfrontend (but the initial
> mailman at lists.).
...
> Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: maps_find:
> relay_recipient_maps: @lists.ifkuk.org: not found
> Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: mail_addr_find:
> walter at lists.ifkuk.org -> (not found)


This may be a problem. See below:


> this is my aliases, where test works and walter and bitep dont!

Looks good.



> my transport-mailman:
>   GNU nano 2.2.6                         File:
> aliases


??? This is a copy of aliases. Is this really the content of
transport-mailman?

> # The ultimate loop stopper address
> mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
> 
> # STANZA START: mailman
> # CREATED: Thu Feb 11 12:52:22 2016
> mailman:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"

Above entries should look like

mailman-loop at lists.ifkuk.org            local:

mailman at lists.ifkuk.org                 local:

and similarly for the others. Also there should be a
transport-mailman.db with a time stamp >= transport-mailman's.


> my virtual-mailman
> 
>   GNU nano 2.2.6                         File:
> aliases

Again, this is a copy of aliases. Is this really the content of
virtual-mailman?


> # The ultimate loop stopper address
> mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
> 
> # STANZA START: mailman
> # CREATED: Thu Feb 11 12:52:22 2016
> mailman:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"

Above entries should look like

mailman-loop at lists.ifkuk.org     mailman-loop

mailman at lists.ifkuk.org          mailman

and similarly for the others.


If your virtual-mailman and transport-mailman(.db) are actually OK, I
think the problem is you have

relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

in Postfix main.cf. Since you changed to using the transport-maps
method, virtual-mailman.db is no longer being updated and only contains
entries for the first two lists. The fix is to change the above to

relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/transport-mailman

I have updated step 9 in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/10715238> to
note this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From walter at ifkuk.org  Thu Feb 11 11:33:04 2016
From: walter at ifkuk.org (walter at ifkuk.org)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2016 17:33:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
 relay recipient table
In-Reply-To: <56BCB627.9070203@msapiro.net>
References: <56BCA023.7070602@ifkuk.org> <56BCB627.9070203@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56BCB7C0.5000002@ifkuk.org>

thanks, "relay_recipient_maps =
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/transport-mailman"

solved it,
thank you very much!

On 2016-02-11 17:26, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 02/11/2016 06:52 AM, walter at ifkuk.org wrote:
>> my test at lists.ifkuk.org still works fine, so i made a second test list,
>> called walter at lists.ifkuk.org, and also there "Recipient address
>> rejected: User unknown in relay recipient table"
>>
>> But test at lists.ifkuk.org and mailman at lists.ifkuk.org still working fine.
>> all are created the same way, by using the webfrontend (but the initial
>> mailman at lists.).
> ...
>> Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: maps_find:
>> relay_recipient_maps: @lists.ifkuk.org: not found
>> Feb 11 14:43:00 ifkuk postfix/smtpd[28581]: mail_addr_find:
>> walter at lists.ifkuk.org -> (not found)
>
> This may be a problem. See below:
>
>
>> this is my aliases, where test works and walter and bitep dont!
> Looks good.
>
>
>
>> my transport-mailman:
>>   GNU nano 2.2.6                         File:
>> aliases
>
> ??? This is a copy of aliases. Is this really the content of
> transport-mailman?
>
>> # The ultimate loop stopper address
>> mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
>>
>> # STANZA START: mailman
>> # CREATED: Thu Feb 11 12:52:22 2016
>> mailman:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
> Above entries should look like
>
> mailman-loop at lists.ifkuk.org            local:
>
> mailman at lists.ifkuk.org                 local:
>
> and similarly for the others. Also there should be a
> transport-mailman.db with a time stamp >= transport-mailman's.
>
>
>> my virtual-mailman
>>
>>   GNU nano 2.2.6                         File:
>> aliases
> Again, this is a copy of aliases. Is this really the content of
> virtual-mailman?
>
>
>> # The ultimate loop stopper address
>> mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
>>
>> # STANZA START: mailman
>> # CREATED: Thu Feb 11 12:52:22 2016
>> mailman:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
> Above entries should look like
>
> mailman-loop at lists.ifkuk.org     mailman-loop
>
> mailman at lists.ifkuk.org          mailman
>
> and similarly for the others.
>
>
> If your virtual-mailman and transport-mailman(.db) are actually OK, I
> think the problem is you have
>
> relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>
> in Postfix main.cf. Since you changed to using the transport-maps
> method, virtual-mailman.db is no longer being updated and only contains
> entries for the first two lists. The fix is to change the above to
>
> relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/transport-mailman
>
> I have updated step 9 in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/10715238> to
> note this.
>


From List.Admin at unh.edu  Thu Feb 11 14:58:07 2016
From: List.Admin at unh.edu (The Mailing List System Admin)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2016 14:58:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web interface for sync_members redux
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602111443390.11310@conundrum.unh.edu>

I see that people have requested in the past a web interface to the
syn_members functionality, and found at least two patches to modify
the current web interface to do this.  At this early stage of the game
with Mailman, I'm not willing to be doing things like patching
Mailman, so I was wondering if anyone has solved this problem with a
stand-alone CGI script that handles the required list owner
authentication?

Lacking that, is there a way that I could confirm a list's password
from the command line so I could roll my own CGI script to expose a
transaction service for a select group of my list owners?  (Along with
the authentication requirement I would also limit its use to only
certain lists.)

   - Using Mailman version: 2.1.20
   - Python 2.4.3 (#1, Oct 23 2012, 22:02:41)
   - Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server release 5.11 (Tikanga)

-- 
                                   Cordially,
                                   the UNH Mailing List System Admins
                                   Bill Costa, senior admin
                                   (603) 862-3056


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 12 15:19:54 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 12:19:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web interface for sync_members redux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602111443390.11310@conundrum.unh.edu>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602111443390.11310@conundrum.unh.edu>
Message-ID: <56BE3E6A.4080700@msapiro.net>

On 02/11/2016 11:58 AM, The Mailing List System Admin wrote:
> I see that people have requested in the past a web interface to the
> syn_members functionality, and found at least two patches to modify
> the current web interface to do this.  At this early stage of the game
> with Mailman, I'm not willing to be doing things like patching
> Mailman, so I was wondering if anyone has solved this problem with a
> stand-alone CGI script that handles the required list owner
> authentication?


I thought about and may still make a skeleton CGI that could do the list
admin authentication and allow for calling mailman command line scripts.
There is an issue with this however. See below.


> Lacking that, is there a way that I could confirm a list's password
> from the command line so I could roll my own CGI script to expose a
> transaction service for a select group of my list owners?  (Along with
> the authentication requirement I would also limit its use to only
> certain lists.)


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4030648> and the members.c
program attached to that FAQ. It would be fairly easy to modify
members.c to do what you want except for the authentication requirement.

The issue with the members.c approach is it has no good way to do the
authentication and neither does the calling CGI or PHP script. Thus the
first idea about a skeleton CGI which does authentication and then
whatever you add to it to do such as running sync_members. The
underlying issue is that whatever is doing this must run as a member of
Mailman's group. Thus, members.c is compiled, executable code in a file
with Mailman's group and SETGID. Likewise, All Mailman's CGIs are
invoked by compiled executable wrappers that are in files with Mailman's
group and SETGID.

So the stumbling block here is that members.c can't properly
authenticate the user as a list admin, and the skeleton CGI that I might
create needs a new wrapper. This latter is not difficult if you have a
Mailman source distribution, but if you are reluctant to patch Mailman,
this may be an issue for you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From List.Admin at unh.edu  Fri Feb 12 15:41:01 2016
From: List.Admin at unh.edu (The Mailing List System Admin)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 15:41:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web interface for sync_members redux
In-Reply-To: <56BE3E6A.4080700@msapiro.net>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602111443390.11310@conundrum.unh.edu>
 <56BE3E6A.4080700@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602121529460.30781@conundrum.unh.edu>

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> recently wrote, in part...

> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4030648> and the members.c
> program attached...

Thanks for the reference.

> The issue with the members.c approach is it has no good way to do
> the authentication and neither does the calling CGI or PHP script.

I see your point.  Perhaps I can approach this from a different angle.
It would be easy for me to authenticate the owner against our LDAP.  I
just have to tie the LDAP account to the list, and I can do that by
email address.  And of course I need to make it clear to the owner
that they are using their local UNH account credentials, not their
Mailman credentials.  This seems doable given the tools I have on hand
and members.c program as a launching pad.

Once again, thanks for your help!

-- 
                                   Cordially,
                                   the UNH Mailing List System Admins
                                   Bill Costa, senior admin
                                   (603) 862-3056

From Shea at forcedexposure.com  Fri Feb 12 12:37:06 2016
From: Shea at forcedexposure.com (Shea Alterio)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:37:06 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble with multipart and moderation
Message-ID: <5FF61BBEB7BE3A4295C35F3B8C0E9D7E2BC9F4@ROLLINS.ForcedExposure.local>

Hey all, I've been hanging out in IRC for a few days and checking all over the googles but I have not found a solution to these two problems yet.

I used to run a (entirely plain text) Mailman 2 list, but I'm now setting up Mailman 3, built last month by the mailman-bundler package. 

Most things are working great! There are a couple problems I'm trying to work around, though.

1. I can't seem to find a way to send multipart emails. I have a script which generates a multipart email. It only has a plain text and a text/HTML segment. No matter how I have tried to send it into Mailman, the message that gets posted to the list is the raw multipart email as I sent it in. How do I get mailman to realize it's a multipart email and should be formatted as such?

2. I confirmed with the help of others that Mailman 3's behavior is the password you provide in making the django superuser is the password you can use to accept emails to be moderated by email. This always fails. You always get "Results: Confirmation token did not match" and "Unprocessed: Approved: <key>". However, Postorius still works for approving messages.
Source: https://github.com/terencehonles/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/rules/approved.py

Lastly, it's already reported as a bug, but you can't open the Held Messages in Postorius unless you comment out the 443rd line in _client.py. Now it's working for us just fine.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 12 19:55:08 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:55:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble with multipart and moderation
In-Reply-To: <5FF61BBEB7BE3A4295C35F3B8C0E9D7E2BC9F4@ROLLINS.ForcedExposure.local>
References: <5FF61BBEB7BE3A4295C35F3B8C0E9D7E2BC9F4@ROLLINS.ForcedExposure.local>
Message-ID: <56BE7EEC.8080700@msapiro.net>

On 02/12/2016 09:37 AM, Shea Alterio wrote:
> I used to run a (entirely plain text) Mailman 2 list, but I'm now setting up Mailman 3, built last month by the mailman-bundler package. 
> 
> Most things are working great! There are a couple problems I'm trying to work around, though.


We are working on setting up mailman3-users at mailman3.org (running on
MM 3 of course), but there are still infrastructure issues to work out
before that list will be operational.



In the mean time the best list for Mailman 3 and particularly
HyperKitty, Postorius and MailmanBundler issues is
mailman-developers at python.org or you can try the #mailman IRC channel on
freenode.



> 1. I can't seem to find a way to send multipart emails. I have a script which generates a multipart email. It only has a plain text and a text/HTML segment. No matter how I have tried to send it into Mailman, the message that gets posted to the list is the raw multipart email as I sent it in. How do I get mailman to realize it's a multipart email and should be formatted as such?


It seems you are saying that you send a multipart/alternative message
with text/plain and text/html alternative parts to the list and you
receive back from the list a text/plain message whose content is the raw
message body that you sent.  Are you sure your script is generating the
multipart/alternative mail correctly? What happens if you sen such a
message from your MUA as opposed to your script? Is the problem with all
such mail or just mail generated by your script?


> 2. I confirmed with the help of others that Mailman 3's behavior is the password you provide in making the django superuser is the password you can use to accept emails to be moderated by email. This always fails. You always get "Results: Confirmation token did not match" and "Unprocessed: Approved: <key>". However, Postorius still works for approving messages.
> Source: https://github.com/terencehonles/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/rules/approved.py


Assuming MM 3.0, the code is
<https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/release-3.0/src/mailman/rules/approved.py>.

In any case, that code is verifying the list's moderator_password which
is not the Django super password. In fact, this is the core engine which
knows nothing about Django or Postorius.

Now if you are talking about approving held mail via the Postorius Web
UI, that's a different issue, and I *think* the Django superuser PW
should work, but it has nothing to do with pre-approval via an Approved:
<password> header which is the only thing mailman/rules/approved.py is
doing. Other's, Particularly on mailman-developers or IRC will have more
insight on this.


> Lastly, it's already reported as a bug, but you can't open the Held Messages in Postorius unless you comment out the 443rd line in _client.py. Now it's working for us just fine.


OK.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Shea at forcedexposure.com  Sat Feb 13 11:19:15 2016
From: Shea at forcedexposure.com (Shea Alterio)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 16:19:15 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble with multipart and moderation
In-Reply-To: <56BE7EEC.8080700@msapiro.net>
References: <5FF61BBEB7BE3A4295C35F3B8C0E9D7E2BC9F4@ROLLINS.ForcedExposure.local>,
 <56BE7EEC.8080700@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20160213161924.5804110.59593.3149@forcedexposure.com>

Thanks a bunch for your response, it was very helpful.

>?Are you sure your script is generating the
multipart/alternative mail correctly? What happens if you sen such a
message from your MUA as opposed to your script? Is the problem with all
such mail or just mail generated by your script?

If I send it from a MUA, the text/plain+text/html is delivered without issue if sent directly to other accounts. It is properly formatted and looks as it should. If I send it into Mailman I get just a text/html+text/plain email, but all the html etc. Is shown as raw code, as if you were to paste html code into a word processor. This script to generate the text/plain+text/html email hasn't changed for over a decade, ?but it was being used with Lyris Listmanager, so I'm not sure if there's some nonstandard formatting in the script mailman is getting caught up on.

Thanks for your help, again. I'll try the other list and IRC.

  Original Message
From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 7:55 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] trouble with multipart and moderation


On 02/12/2016 09:37 AM, Shea Alterio wrote:
> I used to run a (entirely plain text) Mailman 2 list, but I'm now setting up Mailman 3, built last month by the mailman-bundler package.
>
> Most things are working great! There are a couple problems I'm trying to work around, though.


We are working on setting up mailman3-users at mailman3.org (running on
MM 3 of course), but there are still infrastructure issues to work out
before that list will be operational.



In the mean time the best list for Mailman 3 and particularly
HyperKitty, Postorius and MailmanBundler issues is
mailman-developers at python.org or you can try the #mailman IRC channel on
freenode.



> 1. I can't seem to find a way to send multipart emails. I have a script which generates a multipart email. It only has a plain text and a text/HTML segment. No matter how I have tried to send it into Mailman, the message that gets posted to the list is the raw multipart email as I sent it in. How do I get mailman to realize it's a multipart email and should be formatted as such?


It seems you are saying that you send a multipart/alternative message
with text/plain and text/html alternative parts to the list and you
receive back from the list a text/plain message whose content is the raw
message body that you sent.  Are you sure your script is generating the
multipart/alternative mail correctly? What happens if you sen such a
message from your MUA as opposed to your script? Is the problem with all
such mail or just mail generated by your script?


> 2. I confirmed with the help of others that Mailman 3's behavior is the password you provide in making the django superuser is the password you can use to accept emails to be moderated by email. This always fails. You always get "Results: Confirmation token did not match" and "Unprocessed: Approved: <key>". However, Postorius still works for approving messages.
> Source: https://github.com/terencehonles/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/rules/approved.py


Assuming MM 3.0, the code is
<https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/release-3.0/src/mailman/rules/approved.py>.

In any case, that code is verifying the list's moderator_password which
is not the Django super password. In fact, this is the core engine which
knows nothing about Django or Postorius.

Now if you are talking about approving held mail via the Postorius Web
UI, that's a different issue, and I *think* the Django superuser PW
should work, but it has nothing to do with pre-approval via an Approved:
<password> header which is the only thing mailman/rules/approved.py is
doing. Other's, Particularly on mailman-developers or IRC will have more
insight on this.


> Lastly, it's already reported as a bug, but you can't open the Held Messages in Postorius unless you comment out the 443rd line in _client.py. Now it's working for us just fine.


OK.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/shea%40forcedexposure.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 13 14:47:18 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 11:47:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble with multipart and moderation
In-Reply-To: <20160213161924.5804110.59593.3149@forcedexposure.com>
References: <5FF61BBEB7BE3A4295C35F3B8C0E9D7E2BC9F4@ROLLINS.ForcedExposure.local>
 <56BE7EEC.8080700@msapiro.net>
 <20160213161924.5804110.59593.3149@forcedexposure.com>
Message-ID: <56BF8846.6090801@msapiro.net>

On 02/13/2016 08:19 AM, Shea Alterio wrote to mailman-users:
> Thanks a bunch for your response, it was very helpful.
> 
>> ?Are you sure your script is generating the
>> multipart/alternative mail correctly? What happens if you sen such a
>> message from your MUA as opposed to your script? Is the problem with all
>> such mail or just mail generated by your script?
> 
> If I send it from a MUA, the text/plain+text/html is delivered
> without issue if sent directly to other accounts. It is properly
> formatted and looks as it should. If I send it into Mailman I get
> just a text/html+text/plain email, but all the html etc. Is shown as
> raw code, as if you were to paste html code into a word processor.


I'm copying this to mailman-developers at python.org and requesting replies
to go there.

What you see should obviously not be happening, but a cursory inspection
of the doc tests which the code passes seems to show this situation is
covered.

In the message received from Mailman, do you also see MIME headers and
boundaries (i.e. headers such as Content-Type:) preceding the text/plain
and text/html content, or do you just see the plain and html text?

Also, what is the python3 version that Mailman is using?

For further analysis of this can you create a very simple test message
in an MUA and send it to a list? The body can be a simple line or two.
Than can you post the entire, raw message source of the sent message and
of the message as received back from the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mailman at rissel.it  Sun Feb 14 03:13:30 2016
From: mailman at rissel.it (Sascha Rissel)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 09:13:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Users complain,
 they don't receive mails from the list
In-Reply-To: <56A86263.60605@msapiro.net>
References: <CAKGvnECFbTPk+j0pUXGXPd-JTyixO=qeDd0oNEAcWGaY8+JJbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A6A328.2000308@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEBT8d9k-FomBFyNVkjA2qZhXDwys_0oYEDMXv+0YUAu7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A6ABB4.4@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEAMKc-+AdiyhyPqne8Dc55=pDK1-MVUnUph1ama_0yjPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A6B452.5020806@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnECDFe-_EJ2EpB2=_uvS0pse1OJgXU4KuTdJTt9B-zfjzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <201601260245.u0Q2jFHM018848@sharky2.deepsoft.com>
 <CAKGvnEA5YWW7vOsqz3HW1uSpjOL9O-54=x4hWsFk+ZNCOPiD+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A80B16.6070303@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEDVd_XurSi1LHriQykuFNEwB4JgbiGpx7XquTBQ==FiaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A86263.60605@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAKGvnEDBvWFAnkQH2NHZZsUYaiMyBoqqky4vOJKpFPTfX=N8qA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

again I'm getting bounces for one specific provider: Germany's T-Online.
The bounce log itself doesn't show something worth mentioning, but here's
the bounce message I'm receiving.

Could you maybe have a look?

Kind regards,
Sascha.

This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:

    List:       rcworms-vorstand
    Member:     some_user at t-online.de
    Action:     Subscription disabled.
    Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.



The triggering bounce notice is attached below.

Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
mailman at euve103340.serverprofi24.de.


---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ----------
From: Mail Delivery System <MAILER-DAEMON at lists.rc-worms.de>
To: rcworms-vorstand-bounces at euve103340.serverprofi24.de
Cc:
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 12:38:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
This is the mail system at host lists.rc-worms.de.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

                   The mail system

<some_user at t-online.de>: host mx03.t-online.de[194.25.134.73] refused to
talk to
    me: 554 IP=62.138.1.209 - A problem occurred. (Ask your postmaster for
help
    or to contact tosa at rx.t-online.de to clarify.) (BL)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; some_user at t-online.de
Original-Recipient: rfc822;some_user at t-online.de
Action: failed
Status: 4.0.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mx03.t-online.de
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554 IP=62.138.1.209 - A problem occurred. (Ask your
    postmaster for help or to contact tosa at rx.t-online.de to clarify.) (BL)





2016-01-27 7:23 GMT+01:00 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:

> On 01/26/2016 10:19 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> > Thanks Mark!
> >
> > Is this the SMTP HELO/EHLO configuration, you spoke of?
>
>
> Yes it is.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mailman%40rissel.it
>

From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Sun Feb 14 07:31:50 2016
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 07:31:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Users complain,
 they don't receive mails from the list
In-Reply-To: <CAKGvnEDBvWFAnkQH2NHZZsUYaiMyBoqqky4vOJKpFPTfX=N8qA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKGvnECFbTPk+j0pUXGXPd-JTyixO=qeDd0oNEAcWGaY8+JJbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A6A328.2000308@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEBT8d9k-FomBFyNVkjA2qZhXDwys_0oYEDMXv+0YUAu7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A6ABB4.4@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEAMKc-+AdiyhyPqne8Dc55=pDK1-MVUnUph1ama_0yjPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A6B452.5020806@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnECDFe-_EJ2EpB2=_uvS0pse1OJgXU4KuTdJTt9B-zfjzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <201601260245.u0Q2jFHM018848@sharky2.deepsoft.com>
 <CAKGvnEA5YWW7vOsqz3HW1uSpjOL9O-54=x4hWsFk+ZNCOPiD+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A80B16.6070303@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEDVd_XurSi1LHriQykuFNEwB4JgbiGpx7XquTBQ==FiaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A86263.60605@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEDBvWFAnkQH2NHZZsUYaiMyBoqqky4vOJKpFPTfX=N8qA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56C073B6.3070406@Damon-Family.org>

Have you contacted the provider as mentioned in the bounce message, THEY 
need to look at the logs to see what is the problem.

The fact that the diagnostic code header ends in (BL) makes me wonder if 
you are on some sort of Blocking List, but that is just a guess,

The admin at t-online.de will have to confirm and if so let you know 
what list.

On 2/14/16 3:13 AM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> again I'm getting bounces for one specific provider: Germany's T-Online.
> The bounce log itself doesn't show something worth mentioning, but here's
> the bounce message I'm receiving.
>
> Could you maybe have a look?
>
> Kind regards,
> Sascha.
>
> This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
>
>      List:       rcworms-vorstand
>      Member:     some_user at t-online.de
>      Action:     Subscription disabled.
>      Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.
>
>
>
> The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
>
> Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
> mailman at euve103340.serverprofi24.de.
>
>
> ---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ----------
> From: Mail Delivery System <MAILER-DAEMON at lists.rc-worms.de>
> To: rcworms-vorstand-bounces at euve103340.serverprofi24.de
> Cc:
> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 12:38:02 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
> This is the mail system at host lists.rc-worms.de.
>
> I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
> be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.
>
> For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.
>
> If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
> delete your own text from the attached returned message.
>
>                     The mail system
>
> <some_user at t-online.de>: host mx03.t-online.de[194.25.134.73] refused to
> talk to
>      me: 554 IP=62.138.1.209 - A problem occurred. (Ask your postmaster for
> help
>      or to contact tosa at rx.t-online.de to clarify.) (BL)
>
> Final-Recipient: rfc822; some_user at t-online.de
> Original-Recipient: rfc822;some_user at t-online.de
> Action: failed
> Status: 4.0.0
> Remote-MTA: dns; mx03.t-online.de
> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554 IP=62.138.1.209 - A problem occurred. (Ask your
>      postmaster for help or to contact tosa at rx.t-online.de to clarify.) (BL)
>

-- 
Richard Damon


From tom.browder at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 08:23:50 2016
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 07:23:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which is most popular:
 <mailto:listname@lists.domain.tld> OR <mailto:listname@domain.td>?
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz-gHLar++h7K2AzQ2Xw8_X7-HxY17UjfVQxgAv-3k7G-A@mail.gmail.com>

In my old MM 2 lists I used the second form (without "lists") and I
still want to use that form with MM 3.

Are there any reasons why I shouldn't use the second form?

In my opinion, the second form may be easier for inexperienced mailing
list users, but, on the other hand, the first form makes it a bit
clearer that the addressee is a list, not an individual.

Another factor may be the actual list name, e.g.,

  grads-list at mycollege.org

versus

  grads at mycollege.org

or other forms of a list name.

I would appreciate any comments on your real-world experiences and how
you prefer to handle such list naming.

Best regards,

-Tom

From larry at acbradio.org  Sun Feb 14 08:37:28 2016
From: larry at acbradio.org (Larry Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 13:37:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Users complain,
 they don't receive mails from the list
In-Reply-To: <56C073B6.3070406@Damon-Family.org>
References: <CAKGvnECFbTPk+j0pUXGXPd-JTyixO=qeDd0oNEAcWGaY8+JJbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A6A328.2000308@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEBT8d9k-FomBFyNVkjA2qZhXDwys_0oYEDMXv+0YUAu7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A6ABB4.4@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEAMKc-+AdiyhyPqne8Dc55=pDK1-MVUnUph1ama_0yjPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A6B452.5020806@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnECDFe-_EJ2EpB2=_uvS0pse1OJgXU4KuTdJTt9B-zfjzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <201601260245.u0Q2jFHM018848@sharky2.deepsoft.com>
 <CAKGvnEA5YWW7vOsqz3HW1uSpjOL9O-54=x4hWsFk+ZNCOPiD+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A80B16.6070303@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEDVd_XurSi1LHriQykuFNEwB4JgbiGpx7XquTBQ==FiaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A86263.60605@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEDBvWFAnkQH2NHZZsUYaiMyBoqqky4vOJKpFPTfX=N8qA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56C073B6.3070406@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <020801d1672c$d778b890$866a29b0$@acbradio.org>

This is definitely a blacklist issue.

When you see the message  "the server refused to talk to me" it means that
the ip address where the mailman messages are coming from is on their
blacklist.

To resolve this the host provider where the mailman list in question resides
needs to contact the internet service provider that is blocking the message
and work with them to get them to lift the block.

I have had to do this many times with different internet service providers.

Each provider has a different process that you have to go through to get the
block lifted.

Most of them, the administrator of the mailman host provider has to fill out
a form online to explain that they are not a spammer.

I am the server administrator for an organization known as the American
Council of the blind and I ended up routing our smtp services through a
service called mandrill which is put out by Mail Chimp.

This put an end to the constant problem of internet service providers
blacklisting our servers since we have a lot of mailman lists.

I also recommend the munge from option because many host providers such as
yahoo have a DMarc policy in place that will cause bounce messages to occur
often.

Hope that helps.

Larry Turnbull
ACB Radio Managing Director and ACB Server Administrator

-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+larry=acbradio.org at python.org] On Behalf Of
Richard Damon
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2016 6:32 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from
the list

Have you contacted the provider as mentioned in the bounce message, THEY
need to look at the logs to see what is the problem.

The fact that the diagnostic code header ends in (BL) makes me wonder if you
are on some sort of Blocking List, but that is just a guess,

The admin at t-online.de will have to confirm and if so let you know what
list.

On 2/14/16 3:13 AM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> again I'm getting bounces for one specific provider: Germany's T-Online.
> The bounce log itself doesn't show something worth mentioning, but 
> here's the bounce message I'm receiving.
>
> Could you maybe have a look?
>
> Kind regards,
> Sascha.
>
> This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
>
>      List:       rcworms-vorstand
>      Member:     some_user at t-online.de
>      Action:     Subscription disabled.
>      Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.
>
>
>
> The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
>
> Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at 
> mailman at euve103340.serverprofi24.de.
>
>
> ---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ----------
> From: Mail Delivery System <MAILER-DAEMON at lists.rc-worms.de>
> To: rcworms-vorstand-bounces at euve103340.serverprofi24.de
> Cc:
> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 12:38:02 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender This is the mail system 
> at host lists.rc-worms.de.
>
> I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be 
> delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.
>
> For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.
>
> If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your 
> own text from the attached returned message.
>
>                     The mail system
>
> <some_user at t-online.de>: host mx03.t-online.de[194.25.134.73] refused 
> to talk to
>      me: 554 IP=62.138.1.209 - A problem occurred. (Ask your 
> postmaster for help
>      or to contact tosa at rx.t-online.de to clarify.) (BL)
>
> Final-Recipient: rfc822; some_user at t-online.de
> Original-Recipient: rfc822;some_user at t-online.de
> Action: failed
> Status: 4.0.0
> Remote-MTA: dns; mx03.t-online.de
> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554 IP=62.138.1.209 - A problem occurred. (Ask your
>      postmaster for help or to contact tosa at rx.t-online.de to 
> clarify.) (BL)
>

--
Richard Damon

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy:
http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/larry%40acbradio.org

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 14 11:21:43 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 08:21:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which is most popular:
 <mailto:listname@lists.domain.tld> OR <mailto:listname@domain.td>?
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz-gHLar++h7K2AzQ2Xw8_X7-HxY17UjfVQxgAv-3k7G-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFMGiz-gHLar++h7K2AzQ2Xw8_X7-HxY17UjfVQxgAv-3k7G-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56C0A997.6090903@msapiro.net>

On 02/14/2016 05:23 AM, Tom Browder wrote:
> In my old MM 2 lists I used the second form (without "lists") and I
> still want to use that form with MM 3.
> 
> Are there any reasons why I shouldn't use the second form?


No.


> In my opinion, the second form may be easier for inexperienced mailing
> list users, but, on the other hand, the first form makes it a bit
> clearer that the addressee is a list, not an individual.


What you say is valid, and is perhaps something to think about, but
doesn't clearly argue for one over the other.

The lists.domain.tld form is used by default in the Debian/Ubuntu
Mailman package, I think in large part because Debian likes
postfix_to_mailman.py delivery to Mailman and that delivery requires all
lists to be in a dedicated domain that has no non-list addresses. See
<http://wiki.list.org/x/15564817> and the links in the last paragraph
thereof for my opinion of postfix_to_mailman.py.


> Another factor may be the actual list name, e.g.,
> 
>   grads-list at mycollege.org
> 
> versus
> 
>   grads at mycollege.org
> 
> or other forms of a list name.


I think that's a matter of taste. Personally, I think
grads at mycollege.org is descriptive and grads-list at mycollege.org is
redundant, but as I say, it's a matter of taste and there's no arguing
with taste.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Feb 14 11:35:19 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 01:35:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Users complain,
 they don't receive mails from the list
In-Reply-To: <CAKGvnEDBvWFAnkQH2NHZZsUYaiMyBoqqky4vOJKpFPTfX=N8qA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKGvnECFbTPk+j0pUXGXPd-JTyixO=qeDd0oNEAcWGaY8+JJbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A6A328.2000308@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEBT8d9k-FomBFyNVkjA2qZhXDwys_0oYEDMXv+0YUAu7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A6ABB4.4@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEAMKc-+AdiyhyPqne8Dc55=pDK1-MVUnUph1ama_0yjPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A6B452.5020806@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnECDFe-_EJ2EpB2=_uvS0pse1OJgXU4KuTdJTt9B-zfjzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <201601260245.u0Q2jFHM018848@sharky2.deepsoft.com>
 <CAKGvnEA5YWW7vOsqz3HW1uSpjOL9O-54=x4hWsFk+ZNCOPiD+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A80B16.6070303@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEDVd_XurSi1LHriQykuFNEwB4JgbiGpx7XquTBQ==FiaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A86263.60605@msapiro.net>
 <CAKGvnEDBvWFAnkQH2NHZZsUYaiMyBoqqky4vOJKpFPTfX=N8qA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22208.44231.368555.526834@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

This is somewhat redundant now, but the information is a little more
precise than previoius replies.

Sascha Rissel writes:

 > again I'm getting bounces for one specific provider: Germany's T-Online.

[...]
 > <some_user at t-online.de>: host mx03.t-online.de[194.25.134.73] refused to
 > talk to
 >     me: 554 IP=62.138.1.209 - A problem occurred. (Ask your postmaster for
 > help
 >     or to contact tosa at rx.t-online.de to clarify.) (BL)

At a guess "TOSA" = "terms of service agreement" and "BL" = "block
list".  That's supported by the SMTP status 554 (denied for
administrative reasons) and the link below.  But http://mxtoolbox.com/
says you're not on any of the 95 RBLs it checks.  So it must be
internal.  Google is my friend, and told me to look at

http://serverfault.com/questions/602399/t-online-de-blacklist-host-refused-to-talk-to-me-bl

So it looks like t-online has taken a severe dislike to you ("BL"
apparently means they've decided you're a long-term bad actor).  If you
are in the fortunate position I am[1][2], you tell the user that t-online
is f++ked and they should get a new address.  If you're not, write to
tosa at rx.t-online.de and beg to be reinstated in their good graces.

Footnotes: 
[1]  You can generally ignore my footnotes.  It's my way of denoting a
a-political rant. :-)

[2]  My employer, the Japanese Ministry of Education, prohibited use
of Yahoo addresses for academic business after the Yahoo!/AOL April
Fool's Joke of 2014.  But strictly speaking, it turns out that it's
the Ministry that's f++ked because they can't tell the difference
between yahoo.co.jp, which causes no DMARC problem (they don't have a
p=reject policy), and yahoo.com, which has both DMARC *and* privacy
issues out the wazoo.  But I ignore that, since I hate the garbage
that Yahoo's wannabe MUA emits. ;-)

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 12:47:56 2016
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 11:47:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which is most popular:
 <mailto:listname@lists.domain.tld> OR <mailto:listname@domain.td>?
In-Reply-To: <56C0A997.6090903@msapiro.net>
References: <CAFMGiz-gHLar++h7K2AzQ2Xw8_X7-HxY17UjfVQxgAv-3k7G-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <56C0A997.6090903@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz9q1XvfSaviS8iAhfkd2pAuqzQJtMJVUD65VvuzxWNomA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sunday, February 14, 2016, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 02/14/2016 05:23 AM, Tom Browder wrote:
> > In my old MM 2 lists I used the second form (without "lists") and I
> > still want to use that form with MM 3.
> >
> > Are there any reasons why I shouldn't use the second form?

...

> No.

...

Thanks, Mark, for a very thoughtful, helpful response (as usual).

Best regards,

-Tom

From gbcbooksmj at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 03:40:40 2016
From: gbcbooksmj at gmail.com (MichaelLeung)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 16:40:40 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] all subscrition need approval
Message-ID: <56C18F08.2080201@gmail.com>

Hi list

can mailman add a setting to request administrator's approval when 
receive q subscrition reuqest

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 15 08:45:50 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 05:45:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] all subscrition need approval
In-Reply-To: <56C18F08.2080201@gmail.com>
References: <56C18F08.2080201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56C1D68E.7060203@msapiro.net>

On 02/15/2016 12:40 AM, MichaelLeung wrote:
> 
> can mailman add a setting to request administrator's approval when
> receive q subscrition reuqest


See the web admin UI Privacy options... -> Subscription rules ->
subscribe_policy.

Require approval means all requests are held for moderator approval.

Confirm and approve means the subscriber will first receive a
confirmation request email and after confirming, the request is held for
moderator approval.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From her at adm.ku.dk  Mon Feb 15 03:45:32 2016
From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 08:45:32 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?windows-1252?q?No_confirmation_e-mails_even_=93?=
 =?windows-1252?q?Receive_acknowledgement_mail_when_you_send_mail_to_the_l?=
 =?windows-1252?q?ist=3F=94_has_been_set_to_=93Yes=94?=
Message-ID: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713D01668846A8@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain>

A list administrator asked me whether it is possible for the sender to receive an email confirmation when he?s mail has been approved by the list administrator or moderator.

I found some documentation on how to achieve this<http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node24.html>*) and I tried it on my test list, which have two members: My corporate mail and my private Gmail account. My corporate e-mail is owner if the list, both are subscribed to the list as moderated member, and both members have set ?Receive acknowledgement mail when you send mail to the list?? to ?Yes? at http://mailman.foo/roster/mylist.

But I do not seem to receive any confirmation e-mails to any of the e-mail addresses, once I have approved the mails and they have been sent to the members, neither last Friday nor today.

I am using Mailman 2.1.12

This is logs from today:

vette
Feb 15 09:12:19 2016 (2440) Mylist post from corporatemail at example.com held, message-id=<6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713D01668845EA at Mymailserver@foo.bar>: Post to moderated list
Feb 15 09:17:01 2016 (26733) held message approved, message-id: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713D01668845EA at Mymailserver@foo.bar>
Feb 15 09:20:40 2016 (2440) Mylist post from privatemail at gmail.com held, message-id=<CAGfPFBwYO-fE-fB8S4nCoAF1j6ztAS9vbcu9-UbO131dsmsu=g at mail.gmail.com>: Post to moderated list
Feb 15 09:23:07 2016 (27926) held message approved, message-id: CAGfPFBwYO-fE-fB8S4nCoAF1j6ztAS9vbcu9-UbO131dsmsu=g at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAGfPFBwYO-fE-fB8S4nCoAF1j6ztAS9vbcu9-UbO131dsmsu=g at mail.gmail.com>

smtp
Feb 15 09:12:21 2016 (2442) <mailman.30.1455523939.2440.mylist at mailman.foo> smtp to mylist for 1 recips, completed in 0.093 seconds
Feb 15 09:12:22 2016 (2442) <mailman.30.1455523939.2440.mylist at mailman.foo> smtp to mylist for 1 recips, completed in 0.089 seconds
Feb 15 09:17:02 2016 (2442) <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713D01668845EA at Mymailserver@foo.bar> smtp to mylist for 1 recips, completed in 0.113 seconds
Feb 15 09:20:41 2016 (2442) <mailman.31.1455524440.2440.mylist at mailman.foo> smtp to mylist for 1 recips, completed in 0.089 seconds
Feb 15 09:20:41 2016 (2442) <mailman.33.1455524440.2440.mylist at mailman.foo> smtp to mylist for 1 recips, completed in 0.091 seconds
Feb 15 09:20:42 2016 (2442) <mailman.33.1455524440.2440.mylist at mailman.foo> smtp to mylist for 1 recips, completed in 0.089 seconds
Feb 15 09:23:09 2016 (2442) <CAGfPFBwYO-fE-fB8S4nCoAF1j6ztAS9vbcu9-UbO131dsmsu=g at mail.gmail.com> smtp to mylist for 1 recips, completed in 0.108 seconds

post
Feb 15 09:17:02 2016 (2440) post to mylist from Henrik Rasmussen <corporatemail at example.com> anonymized
Feb 15 09:17:02 2016 (2442) post to mylist from mylist at mailman.foo, size=12028, message-id=<6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713D01668845EA at Mymailserver@foo.bar>, success
Feb 15 09:23:08 2016 (2440) post to mylist from Henrik Rasmussen <privatemail at gmail.com> anonymized
Feb 15 09:23:09 2016 (2442) post to mylist from mylist at mailman.foo, size=4122, message-id=<CAGfPFBwYO-fE-fB8S4nCoAF1j6ztAS9vbcu9-UbO131dsmsu=g at mail.gmail.com>, success

*) http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node24.html

What may I have missed?

/Henrik Rasmussen


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 15 10:04:38 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 07:04:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 
 =?utf-8?q?No_confirmation_e-mails_even_=E2=80=9C?=
 =?utf-8?q?Receive_acknowledgement_mail_when_you_send_mail_to_the_list=3F?=
 =?utf-8?b?4oCdIGhhcyBiZWVuIHNldCB0byDigJxZZXPigJ0=?=
In-Reply-To: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713D01668846A8@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain>
References: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713D01668846A8@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain>
Message-ID: <56C1E906.8060504@msapiro.net>

On 02/15/2016 12:45 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote:
> 
> I found some documentation on how to achieve this<http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node24.html>*) and I tried it on my test list, which have two members: My corporate mail and my private Gmail account. My corporate e-mail is owner if the list, both are subscribed to the list as moderated member, and both members have set ?Receive acknowledgement mail when you send mail to the list?? to ?Yes? at http://mailman.foo/roster/mylist.
> 
> But I do not seem to receive any confirmation e-mails to any of the e-mail addresses, once I have approved the mails and they have been sent to the members, neither last Friday nor today.
> 
> post
> Feb 15 09:17:02 2016 (2440) post to mylist from Henrik Rasmussen <corporatemail at example.com> anonymized
> Feb 15 09:17:02 2016 (2442) post to mylist from mylist at mailman.foo, size=12028, message-id=<6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713D01668845EA at Mymailserver@foo.bar>, success
> Feb 15 09:23:08 2016 (2440) post to mylist from Henrik Rasmussen <privatemail at gmail.com> anonymized
> Feb 15 09:23:09 2016 (2442) post to mylist from mylist at mailman.foo, size=4122, message-id=<CAGfPFBwYO-fE-fB8S4nCoAF1j6ztAS9vbcu9-UbO131dsmsu=g at mail.gmail.com>, success


The user option ?Receive acknowledgement mail when you send mail to the
list?? does not work with anonymous lists because at the time we decide
to send the acknowledgement, all trace of who sent the mail has been
removed. That is why the second of the pair of entries in the post log
has the list address rather than your address.

If you set your list's General Options -> anonymous_list to No, the
poster should receive requested acknowledgements.

This could be considered a bug. If you report it at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+filebug>, I'll fix it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Shea at forcedexposure.com  Tue Feb 16 15:24:34 2016
From: Shea at forcedexposure.com (Shea Alterio)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 20:24:34 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with HTML emails again
Message-ID: <5FF61BBEB7BE3A4295C35F3B8C0E9D7E2BEFC0@ROLLINS.ForcedExposure.local>

Not sure what happened with my Mailman 3 setup. I haven't changed any settings in Mailman itself, but HTML emails suddenly don't show up properly anymore.

One of two things is happening... either the message is shown as a text/plain email with an HTML attachment included, which if you open up, is the way the HTML email should look. Or I will get an email with a bunch of strangely broken HTML, for example this snippet of HTML:

new releases are also viewable at 
<a href="http://www.mysite.com/New/NewIndex.html" >
http://www.mysite.com/new/newindx.html</a><br>&nbsp;<br>

will be rendered as this:

new releases are also viewable at <http://www.mysite.com/New/NewIndex.html> http://www.mysite.com/new/newindx.html

whereas every day up until now, it would render properly as you would expect it to.

I am not working with multipart emails, just HTML only. On top of this, inline images which link to locations hosted on other sites are being included as attachments to the email which is incorrect and never has happened before.

To be sure I didn't mess up any list specific settings, I made a new list, left all the settings as fault, and tried in that one - same behavior. I can't seem to figure out what happened as I haven't been messing with Mailman's configuration. Where should I look to take care of this?

I apologize if this is the wrong list for the question. If it is let me know.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Feb 16 23:36:45 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 13:36:45 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Trouble with HTML emails again (in Mailman 3)
In-Reply-To: <5FF61BBEB7BE3A4295C35F3B8C0E9D7E2BEFC0@ROLLINS.ForcedExposure.local>
References: <5FF61BBEB7BE3A4295C35F3B8C0E9D7E2BEFC0@ROLLINS.ForcedExposure.local>
Message-ID: <22211.63709.46085.646124@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Shea Alterio writes:

 > One of two things is happening... either the message is shown as a
 > text/plain email with an HTML attachment included, which if you
 > open up, is the way the HTML email should look.
 > Or I will get an email with a bunch of strangely broken HTML, for
 > example this snippet of HTML:
 > 
 > new releases are also viewable at 
 > <a href="http://www.mysite.com/New/NewIndex.html" >
 > http://www.mysite.com/new/newindx.html</a><br>&nbsp;<br>

Is this snippet in the mail *as delivered*?

If not, I suspect you have (or the defaults have) the "convert HTML to
text" option set.

 > I can't seem to figure out what happened as I haven't been messing
 > with Mailman's configuration. Where should I look to take care of
 > this?

HTML mail is very fragile because many generators do not conform to
the standard and it's very difficult to preserve the intended meaning
even though if left alone it almost always displays nicely.  In a
context where intermediaries mutate it *in any way* before passing it
on to the end user, it *will* break, and should be avoided.  If HTML
is very desirable for whatever reason, try turning off all mailing
list features that touch the body (specifically header and footer).


From Shea at forcedexposure.com  Tue Feb 16 23:51:01 2016
From: Shea at forcedexposure.com (Shea Alterio)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 04:51:01 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with HTML emails again (in Mailman 3)
In-Reply-To: <22211.63709.46085.646124@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <5FF61BBEB7BE3A4295C35F3B8C0E9D7E2BEFC0@ROLLINS.ForcedExposure.local>,
 <22211.63709.46085.646124@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20160217045110.5804110.49201.3371@forcedexposure.com>

It was as delivered - but I actually found out it was a problem with Amazon SES. When using any other service to send emails the problem did not occur. I think it's safe to say it wasn't a mailman problem.

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network.
  Original Message
From: Stephen J. Turnbull
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 11:36 PM
To: Shea Alterio
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with HTML emails again (in Mailman 3)


Shea Alterio writes:

 > One of two things is happening... either the message is shown as a
 > text/plain email with an HTML attachment included, which if you
 > open up, is the way the HTML email should look.
 > Or I will get an email with a bunch of strangely broken HTML, for
 > example this snippet of HTML:
 >
 > new releases are also viewable at
 > <a href="http://www.mysite.com/New/NewIndex.html" >
 > http://www.mysite.com/new/newindx.html</a><br>&nbsp;<br>

Is this snippet in the mail *as delivered*?

If not, I suspect you have (or the defaults have) the "convert HTML to
text" option set.

 > I can't seem to figure out what happened as I haven't been messing
 > with Mailman's configuration. Where should I look to take care of
 > this?

HTML mail is very fragile because many generators do not conform to
the standard and it's very difficult to preserve the intended meaning
even though if left alone it almost always displays nicely.  In a
context where intermediaries mutate it *in any way* before passing it
on to the end user, it *will* break, and should be avoided.  If HTML
is very desirable for whatever reason, try turning off all mailing
list features that touch the body (specifically header and footer).


From gbcbooksmj at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 23:57:26 2016
From: gbcbooksmj at gmail.com (MichaelLeung)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:57:26 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] all subscrition need approval
In-Reply-To: <56C1D68E.7060203@msapiro.net>
References: <56C18F08.2080201@gmail.com> <56C1D68E.7060203@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56C3FDB6.10404@gmail.com>

thanks , it is done

On 02/15/2016 09:45 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 02/15/2016 12:40 AM, MichaelLeung wrote:
>> can mailman add a setting to request administrator's approval when
>> receive q subscrition reuqest
>
> See the web admin UI Privacy options... -> Subscription rules ->
> subscribe_policy.
>
> Require approval means all requests are held for moderator approval.
>
> Confirm and approve means the subscriber will first receive a
> confirmation request email and after confirming, the request is held for
> moderator approval.
>


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Feb 17 00:18:05 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:18:05 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with HTML emails again (in Mailman 3)
In-Reply-To: <20160217045110.5804110.49201.3371@forcedexposure.com>
References: <5FF61BBEB7BE3A4295C35F3B8C0E9D7E2BEFC0@ROLLINS.ForcedExposure.local>
 <22211.63709.46085.646124@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <20160217045110.5804110.49201.3371@forcedexposure.com>
Message-ID: <22212.653.143256.180385@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Thanks for the followup!

Shea Alterio writes:

 > but I actually found out it was a problem with Amazon SES. When
 > using any other service to send emails the problem did not occur. I
 > think it's safe to say it wasn't a mailman problem.


From fernando at gont.com.ar  Wed Feb 17 01:14:37 2016
From: fernando at gont.com.ar (Fernando Gont)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 03:14:37 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] e-mails being kind of blackholed when sent to list
 or list-robot
Message-ID: <56C40FCD.2020702@gont.com.ar>

Folks,

I'm running a Ubuntu with Postfix and Mailman. Everything was up and
running, and somehow mailman started to fail (we migrated the virtual
machine to a different container, but I'd expect this to be orthogonal..
so.. not sure what happened).

Essentially, any emails that I send to the mail-robot aliases (e.g.
listname-request at mydomain.com) are kind of blackholed: I don't get a
response from mailman, but I also don't get any sort of "user unknown
message" either.

Similarly, if I try to post to the list, the messages vanish (they are
not forwarded to the subscribers but you don't get a "reject", either).

Bellow you'll find my Postfix cnfig and my mm_cfg.py, plus some notes on
some debugging I tried to do.

This is my Postfix config (postconf -n):

---- cut here ----
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
append_dot_mydomain = no
biff = no
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
config_directory = /etc/postfix
delay_warning_time = 4h
inet_interfaces = all
mailbox_command = procmail -a "$EXTENSION"
mailbox_size_limit = 0
mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1
mydestination = fgont.go6lab.si, localhost.go6lab.si, localhost
myhostname = fgont.go6lab.si
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128
myorigin = /etc/mailname
readme_directory = no
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_domains = lists.si6networks.com, lists.gont.com.ar
relayhost =
smtp_tls_loglevel = 1
smtp_tls_security_level = may
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Iglesia Maradoniana)
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated,
permit_mynetworks, check_relay_domains
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_local_domain =
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
smtpd_tls_CAfile = /etc/letsencrypt/live/gont.com.ar/fullchain.pem
smtpd_tls_auth_only = yes
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/letsencrypt/live/gont.com.ar/cert.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/letsencrypt/live/gont.com.ar/privkey.pem
smtpd_tls_loglevel = 1
smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
smtpd_tls_session_cache_timeout = 3600s
smtpd_use_tls = yes
tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
virtual_alias_domains = gont.com.ar, si6networks.com
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
---- cut here ----



This is mm_cfg.py:

----cut here ----
# -*- python -*-

# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA
# 02110-1301 USA


"""This is the module which takes your site-specific settings.

>From a raw distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py.  If you
already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings
you want.  The complete set of distributed defaults, with annotation,
are in ./Defaults.  In mm_cfg, override only those you want to
change, after the

  from Defaults import *

line (see below).

Note that these are just default settings - many can be overridden via the
admin and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis.

Note also that some of the settings are resolved against the active list
setting by using the value as a format string against the
list-instance-object's dictionary - see the distributed value of
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER for an example."""


#######################################################
#    Here's where we get the distributed defaults.    #

from Defaults import *

##############################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . #
# See Defaults.py for explanations of the values.            #

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The name of the list Mailman uses to send password reminders
# and similar. Don't change if you want mailman-owner to be
# a valid local part.
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# If you change these, you have to configure your http server
# accordingly (Alias and ScriptAlias directives in most httpds)
#DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.si6networks.com'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default host for web interface of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'lists.si6networks.com'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Required when setting any of its arguments.
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('lists.gont.com.ar', 'lists.gont.com.ar')

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The default language for this server.
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Iirc this was used in pre 2.1, leave it for now
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Unset send_reminders on newly created lists
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
# automatically recognizes newly created lists.
# (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian or
# /usr/share/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py)
# MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains (but not
# postfix-to-mailman.py), but be sure to see
# /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Debian first.
MTA='Postfix'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you want to filter mail with SpamAssassin. For
# more information please visit this website:
# http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/
# GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg,
but you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in
/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.
---- cut here ----

If I look at /var/log/mail.info, I can see that my messages (the one I
set to the robot ipv6hackers-request at lists.si6networks.com, and the one
where I tried to post to the list at ipv6hackers at lists.si6netwoks.com)
have been handled to mailman, aparently:

---- cut here ----
# -*- python -*-

# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA
# 02110-1301 USA


"""This is the module which takes your site-specific settings.

>From a raw distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py.  If you
already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings
you want.  The complete set of distributed defaults, with annotation,
are in ./Defaults.  In mm_cfg, override only those you want to
change, after the

  from Defaults import *

line (see below).

Note that these are just default settings - many can be overridden via the
admin and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis.

Note also that some of the settings are resolved against the active list
setting by using the value as a format string against the
list-instance-object's dictionary - see the distributed value of
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER for an example."""


#######################################################
#    Here's where we get the distributed defaults.    #

from Defaults import *

##############################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . #
# See Defaults.py for explanations of the values.            #

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The name of the list Mailman uses to send password reminders
# and similar. Don't change if you want mailman-owner to be
# a valid local part.
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# If you change these, you have to configure your http server
# accordingly (Alias and ScriptAlias directives in most httpds)
#DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.si6networks.com'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default host for web interface of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'lists.si6networks.com'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Required when setting any of its arguments.
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('lists.gont.com.ar', 'lists.gont.com.ar')

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The default language for this server.
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Iirc this was used in pre 2.1, leave it for now
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Unset send_reminders on newly created lists
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
# automatically recognizes newly created lists.
# (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian or
# /usr/share/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py)
# MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains (but not
# postfix-to-mailman.py), but be sure to see
# /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Debian first.
MTA='Postfix'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you want to filter mail with SpamAssassin. For
# more information please visit this website:
# http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/
# GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg,
but you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in
/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.
----cut here ----

But the logs in var/log/mailman remain unaffected.

By the way, I did run check_perms and everything seems fine.

Any help will be really appreciated.

Thanks!

Cheers,
-- 
Fernando Gont
e-mail: fernando at gont.com.ar || fgont at si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1




From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 17 13:17:10 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 10:17:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] e-mails being kind of blackholed when sent to
 list or list-robot
In-Reply-To: <56C40FCD.2020702@gont.com.ar>
References: <56C40FCD.2020702@gont.com.ar>
Message-ID: <56C4B926.5070703@msapiro.net>

On 02/16/2016 10:14 PM, Fernando Gont wrote:

> Essentially, any emails that I send to the mail-robot aliases (e.g.
> listname-request at mydomain.com) are kind of blackholed: I don't get a
> response from mailman, but I also don't get any sort of "user unknown
> message" either.
> 
> Similarly, if I try to post to the list, the messages vanish (they are
> not forwarded to the subscribers but you don't get a "reject", either).
...
> This is my Postfix config (postconf -n):
> 
> ---- cut here ----

OK


> This is mm_cfg.py:
> 
> ----cut here ----

OK


> If I look at /var/log/mail.info, I can see that my messages (the one I
> set to the robot ipv6hackers-request at lists.si6networks.com, and the one
> where I tried to post to the list at ipv6hackers at lists.si6netwoks.com)
> have been handled to mailman, aparently:
> 
> ---- cut here ----
> # -*- python -*-
> 
> # Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.


This is another copy of mm_cfg.py, not a copy of relevant
/var/log/mail.info (or /var/log/mail.log) entries.

> ----cut here ----

Do the actual entries contain things like

status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request
ipv6hackers)

and

status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post
ipv6hackers)

Or do they perhaps say

status=sent (delivered via mailman service)


> 
> But the logs in var/log/mailman remain unaffected.


including /var/log/mailman/error?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 17 13:48:02 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 10:48:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 
 =?utf-8?q?No_confirmation_e-mails_even_=E2=80=9C?=
 =?utf-8?q?Receive_acknowledgement_mail_when_you_send_mail_to_the_list=3F?=
 =?utf-8?b?4oCdIGhhcyBiZWVuIHNldCB0byDigJxZZXPigJ0=?=
In-Reply-To: <56C1E906.8060504@msapiro.net>
References: <56C1E906.8060504@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56C4C062.3000809@msapiro.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> This could be considered a bug. If you report it at
> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+filebug>, I'll fix it.


Nevermind. I did it. <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1546679>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From walter at ifkuk.org  Fri Feb 19 07:43:20 2016
From: walter at ifkuk.org (walter at ifkuk.org)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 13:43:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not reciving emails from postfix
Message-ID: <56C70DE8.9080100@ifkuk.org>

Hey guys

I ran into something strange. Everything was working well, but
check_parms gave me a lot of errors,
so I fixed them all, but now I dont get any more emails at mailman.

in the postfix mail.log I get
Feb 19 13:03:32 ifkuk postfix/local[33319]: 4F63A315:
to=<mailman at lists.ifkuk.org>, relay=local, delay=0.47,
delays=0.25/0/0/0.21, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)

but it never appears in the mailman logs and ofc does not get sent!

all i ve found where old broken faq links,
but no solution.

does any one have a hint for me whats going on here?

can anything break if i changed to many files inside the mailman dirs
from root:list or root:root to list:list ?
cause in some directories i used chmod -h list:list * to fix the
check_perms errors, as there where so many.


thx in advance
walter

From walter at ifkuk.org  Fri Feb 19 12:55:02 2016
From: walter at ifkuk.org (walter at ifkuk.org)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 18:55:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not reciving emails from postfix
In-Reply-To: <56C70DE8.9080100@ifkuk.org>
References: <56C70DE8.9080100@ifkuk.org>
Message-ID: <56C756F6.9020100@ifkuk.org>

I saw that there where a lot of msgs queued up in the in folder,
so i tried service mailman stop and got an error, regarding
that the PID of qrunner is unknown, i couldnt find the process running,
even when service mailman status, said it was,
so i rebooted the server.

right after the reboot, mailman started working again and sending out
all the queued messages.

now everything seems to be working as intended.

i also dont know what caused this situation.

there is no error anywhere logged.


On 2016-02-19 13:43, walter at ifkuk.org wrote:
> Hey guys
>
> I ran into something strange. Everything was working well, but
> check_parms gave me a lot of errors,
> so I fixed them all, but now I dont get any more emails at mailman.
>
> in the postfix mail.log I get
> Feb 19 13:03:32 ifkuk postfix/local[33319]: 4F63A315:
> to=<mailman at lists.ifkuk.org>, relay=local, delay=0.47,
> delays=0.25/0/0/0.21, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
> /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)
>
> but it never appears in the mailman logs and ofc does not get sent!
>
> all i ve found where old broken faq links,
> but no solution.
>
> does any one have a hint for me whats going on here?
>
> can anything break if i changed to many files inside the mailman dirs
> from root:list or root:root to list:list ?
> cause in some directories i used chmod -h list:list * to fix the
> check_perms errors, as there where so many.
>
>
> thx in advance
> walter
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/walter%40ifkuk.org


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 19 13:26:48 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 10:26:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not reciving emails from postfix
In-Reply-To: <56C70DE8.9080100@ifkuk.org>
References: <56C70DE8.9080100@ifkuk.org>
Message-ID: <56C75E68.6010902@msapiro.net>

On 02/19/2016 04:43 AM, walter at ifkuk.org wrote:
> 
> can anything break if i changed to many files inside the mailman dirs
> from root:list or root:root to list:list ?
> cause in some directories i used chmod -h list:list * to fix the
> check_perms errors, as there where so many.

Did you mean  'chown -h list:list *'? In any case, changing ownership to
list:list is not a problem, but 'check_perms -f' will fix everything
except the symlinks and they don't matter, only their targets matter and
'check_perms -f' fixes those.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 19 13:31:53 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 10:31:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not reciving emails from postfix
In-Reply-To: <56C756F6.9020100@ifkuk.org>
References: <56C70DE8.9080100@ifkuk.org> <56C756F6.9020100@ifkuk.org>
Message-ID: <56C75F99.9090008@msapiro.net>

On 02/19/2016 09:55 AM, walter at ifkuk.org wrote:
> I saw that there where a lot of msgs queued up in the in folder,
> so i tried service mailman stop and got an error, regarding
> that the PID of qrunner is unknown, i couldnt find the process running,
> even when service mailman status, said it was,
> so i rebooted the server.


I'm not sure what your init.d script does for 'service mailman status'
but mailman wasn't running. 'service mailman start' should have fixed it.


> right after the reboot, mailman started working again and sending out
> all the queued messages.
> 
> now everything seems to be working as intended.
> 
> i also dont know what caused this situation.
> 
> there is no error anywhere logged.


Check Mailman's qrunner log. This will tell you when and why the various
qrunners stopped and when they started.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From fernando at gont.com.ar  Sat Feb 20 09:06:00 2016
From: fernando at gont.com.ar (Fernando Gont)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 11:06:00 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] e-mails being kind of blackholed when sent to
 list or list-robot
In-Reply-To: <56C4B926.5070703@msapiro.net>
References: <56C40FCD.2020702@gont.com.ar> <56C4B926.5070703@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56C872C8.50603@gont.com.ar>

Hello, Mark,

Thanks so much for your kind help.

Meta answer: quite to my surprise, the problem was that mailman wasn't
running. Apparently the reason was that, when the system was rebooted,
mailman failed to start because there was no mailman@ list. Once I
created it, the problem was solved. (is this list really needed?)

I'm curious how I was able to start mailman in the first place, though.

More comments in-line...


On 02/17/2016 03:17 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 02/16/2016 10:14 PM, Fernando Gont wrote:
> 
>> Essentially, any emails that I send to the mail-robot aliases (e.g.
>> listname-request at mydomain.com) are kind of blackholed: I don't get a
>> response from mailman, but I also don't get any sort of "user unknown
>> message" either.
>>
>> Similarly, if I try to post to the list, the messages vanish (they are
>> not forwarded to the subscribers but you don't get a "reject", either).
> ...
>> This is my Postfix config (postconf -n):
>>
>> ---- cut here ----
> 
> OK
> 
> 
>> This is mm_cfg.py:
>>
>> ----cut here ----
> 
> OK
> 
> 
>> If I look at /var/log/mail.info, I can see that my messages (the one I
>> set to the robot ipv6hackers-request at lists.si6networks.com, and the one
>> where I tried to post to the list at ipv6hackers at lists.si6netwoks.com)
>> have been handled to mailman, aparently:
>>
>> ---- cut here ----
>> # -*- python -*-
>>
>> # Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> 
> 
> This is another copy of mm_cfg.py, not a copy of relevant
> /var/log/mail.info (or /var/log/mail.log) entries.

Oops, my bad, sorry.



>> ----cut here ----
> 
> Do the actual entries contain things like
> 
> status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request
> ipv6hackers)
> 
> and
> 
> status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post
> ipv6hackers)
> 
> Or do they perhaps say
> 
> status=sent (delivered via mailman service)

The later.

I thought that the emails had been lost, but when I was finally able to
start mailman, it turned out they wasn't. -- I assume postfix coudln't
really handle the mails to mailman, and hence queued them?


>>
>> But the logs in var/log/mailman remain unaffected.
> 
> 
> including /var/log/mailman/error?

Nothing there -- but it kind of makes sense, since mailman wasn't really
running in the first place?

Thanks!

Cheers,
-- 
Fernando Gont
e-mail: fernando at gont.com.ar || fgont at si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1




From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 20 12:42:09 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 09:42:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] e-mails being kind of blackholed when sent to
 list or list-robot
In-Reply-To: <56C872C8.50603@gont.com.ar>
References: <56C40FCD.2020702@gont.com.ar> <56C4B926.5070703@msapiro.net>
 <56C872C8.50603@gont.com.ar>
Message-ID: <56C8A571.8080209@msapiro.net>

On 2/20/16 6:06 AM, Fernando Gont wrote:
> 
> Meta answer: quite to my surprise, the problem was that mailman wasn't
> running. Apparently the reason was that, when the system was rebooted,
> mailman failed to start because there was no mailman@ list. Once I
> created it, the problem was solved. (is this list really needed?)


Yes, it is needed. It is the sender of various notices including monthly
password reminders an the recipient of bounces thereof. It is also
exposed on the web admin and listinfo overview pages as a 'help' address
and depending on config may receive error notices from Mailman's cron
jobs. As such, it should have the Mailman admins as members and accept
non-member posts.


> I'm curious how I was able to start mailman in the first place, though.


So am I. Perhaps it existed and was deleted some time after mailman was
running.


> More comments in-line...
...
>>
>> Do the actual entries contain things like
>>
>> status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request
>> ipv6hackers)
>>
>> and
>>
>> status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post
>> ipv6hackers)
>>
>> Or do they perhaps say
>>
>> status=sent (delivered via mailman service)
> 
> The later.


In which case, you are using postfix_to_mailman.py delivery, but you
also have hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases in alias_maps in Postfix
and MTA='Postfix' uncommented in mm_cfg.py

> #-------------------------------------------------------------
> # Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains (but not
> # postfix-to-mailman.py), but be sure to see
> # /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Debian first.
> MTA='Postfix'

You are using postfix-to-mailman.py so you should have MTA=None

> #-------------------------------------------------------------
> # Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
> # automatically recognizes newly created lists.
> # (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian or
> # /usr/share/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py)
> # MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist

Also, see <http://wiki.list.org/x/15564817>


> I thought that the emails had been lost, but when I was finally able to
> start mailman, it turned out they wasn't. -- I assume postfix coudln't
> really handle the mails to mailman, and hence queued them?


Not exactly. Postfix delivered the mail via postfix_to_mailman.py and it
queued the mail in Mailman's in/ queue where it waited for
IncomingRunner to process it. When you started Mailman (actually the
qrunners), IncomingRunner processed the mail.

Also note, steps 2.2 and 6.2 in the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/4030723> would have pointed you to the problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From bryan at skiblack.com  Mon Feb 22 16:51:51 2016
From: bryan at skiblack.com (Bryan Blackwell)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 16:51:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman owner delivery
Message-ID: <FD985C54-713F-470D-AC73-C68A189AEC5F@skiblack.com>

Hi all,

I have a minor mystery.  I recently migrated to a new server, hosting a half dozen or so Mailman lists.  The old server ran on Fedora 8, but I had upgraded to Mailman 2.1.18.  The new server is Fedora 22, running Mailman 2.1.20.  Postfix is the MTA on both.

Migration was just to copy over ~mailman, install the new software (same paths), install /etc/aliases and ~mailman/aliases.  And everything worked!  Or so I thought, I found one little thing that doesn't.  Held message e-mails going to the -owner addresses have a strange issue.  I have "list-help" aliases for all my lists, and the MM list owners are set to those addresses.  I've verified that the aliases work, and deliver mail to all the folks on the alias if I just send a message.  However, Mailman -owner mail only comes to me (I'm the first address on the list and local to the box).  I can find no errors in the logs, it all looks like it's working (status=sent).

Any suggestions appreciated.

--Bryan

--  Bryan Blackwell --
Unix Systems Engineer
bryan at skiblack.com




From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 22 17:40:24 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 14:40:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman owner delivery
In-Reply-To: <FD985C54-713F-470D-AC73-C68A189AEC5F@skiblack.com>
References: <FD985C54-713F-470D-AC73-C68A189AEC5F@skiblack.com>
Message-ID: <56CB8E58.3030902@msapiro.net>

On 02/22/2016 01:51 PM, Bryan Blackwell wrote:
> I found one little thing that
> doesn't.  Held message e-mails going to the -owner addresses have a
> strange issue.  I have "list-help" aliases for all my lists, and the
> MM list owners are set to those addresses.


Do you mean that you have an additional per-list alias like

LISTNAME-help:   "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman owner LISTNAME"

Or do you mean something else?


> I've verified that the
> aliases work, and deliver mail to all the folks on the alias if I
> just send a message.  However, Mailman -owner mail only comes to me
> (I'm the first address on the list and local to the box).  I can find
> no errors in the logs, it all looks like it's working (status=sent).


Does the postfix log say for mail to mailman-owner

status=sent (delivered to command: /path/to/mailman/mail/mailman owner
mailman)

or something else. If it delivers as above, Mailman should then resend
the mail to all addresses listed as owner or moderator of the mailman
list. Is this not happening?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From bryan at skiblack.com  Mon Feb 22 17:51:47 2016
From: bryan at skiblack.com (Bryan Blackwell)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 17:51:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman owner delivery
In-Reply-To: <56CB8E58.3030902@msapiro.net>
References: <FD985C54-713F-470D-AC73-C68A189AEC5F@skiblack.com>
 <56CB8E58.3030902@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <43B62CA3-54CD-425D-ADA3-12DB69027CF8@skiblack.com>

On Feb 22, 2016, at 5:40 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> 
> On 02/22/2016 01:51 PM, Bryan Blackwell wrote:
>> I found one little thing that
>> doesn't.  Held message e-mails going to the -owner addresses have a
>> strange issue.  I have "list-help" aliases for all my lists, and the
>> MM list owners are set to those addresses.
> 
> 
> Do you mean that you have an additional per-list alias like
> 
> LISTNAME-help:   "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman owner LISTNAME"
> 
> Or do you mean something else?

Something else.  In the system alias file I have:

LISTNAME-help: bryan, dennis at foo.com, matt at bar.com

The Mailman List Owner points to that.  I get the messages, but Dennis and Matt do not.
> 
> 
>> I've verified that the
>> aliases work, and deliver mail to all the folks on the alias if I
>> just send a message.  However, Mailman -owner mail only comes to me
>> (I'm the first address on the list and local to the box).  I can find
>> no errors in the logs, it all looks like it's working (status=sent).
> 
> 
> Does the postfix log say for mail to mailman-owner
> 
> status=sent (delivered to command: /path/to/mailman/mail/mailman owner
> mailman)
> 
> or something else. If it delivers as above, Mailman should then resend
> the mail to all addresses listed as owner or moderator of the mailman
> list. Is this not happening?
> 
That's just what I'm getting.  No errors, it appears to deliver to the system alias but the alias never gets expanded.  The system alias otherwise works as expected, it's something specific to the MM -owner mail.

--Bryan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 22 18:19:29 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 15:19:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman owner delivery
In-Reply-To: <43B62CA3-54CD-425D-ADA3-12DB69027CF8@skiblack.com>
References: <FD985C54-713F-470D-AC73-C68A189AEC5F@skiblack.com>
 <56CB8E58.3030902@msapiro.net>
 <43B62CA3-54CD-425D-ADA3-12DB69027CF8@skiblack.com>
Message-ID: <56CB9781.9010200@msapiro.net>

On 02/22/2016 02:51 PM, Bryan Blackwell wrote:
> 
> Something else.  In the system alias file I have:
> 
> LISTNAME-help: bryan, dennis at foo.com, matt at bar.com
> 
> The Mailman List Owner points to that.  I get the messages, but Dennis and Matt do not.


Do you mean the 'owner' attribute of the mailman list is
LISTNAME-help at ... or something else.

Please try to anticipate my next question and give me all the info, i.e.
to what address do you send mail that doesn't work. How is that address
aliased in postfix - check every file in postfix alias_maps.

where does it go from there ...


> That's just what I'm getting.  No errors, it appears to deliver to the system alias but the alias never gets expanded.  The system alias otherwise works as expected, it's something specific to the MM -owner mail.


I think you are saying that the 'owner' of the 'mailman' list is
LISTNAME-help at ..., postfix delivers mail to mailman-owner to the
mailman/mail/mailman wrapper, but then it only goes to you. Is that correct?

What are the

X-Original-To:
Delivered-To:

headers added to postfix in the mail you receive. What's in the maillog
following delivery to the wrapper, I.e. what messages come back from
Mailman after that?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From simone.lazzaris at qcom.it  Tue Feb 23 08:19:08 2016
From: simone.lazzaris at qcom.it (Simone Lazzaris)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2016 14:19:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation not working with mailman3
Message-ID: <3204388.UtFky5UJ8J@orion>

Hi all;
I've installed and configured mailman 3 (using mailman-bundler) and it seems 
working as it should, but I've got an issue with the moderation:

I want a list to be moderated, e.g. all the messages by the subscriber must be 
approved by the moderators. All messages from non-subscriber must be rejected.

To achive this, I've set "Hold" in "Default action to take when a member posts 
to the list", under the "Message Acceptance" tab in the Settings of the list, 
and "Reject (with notification)" for "non-member posts".

The non-member part works: messages from non-members are rejected. The 
messages from the members, instead, are accepted and delivered without the 
moderation request.

I think I'm missing something, but cannot figure it out. Anybody can send me 
some hints?

Thanks




-- 
Simone Lazzaris

Qcom SpA 
http://www.qcom.it

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 23 13:02:28 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2016 10:02:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation not working with mailman3
In-Reply-To: <3204388.UtFky5UJ8J@orion>
References: <3204388.UtFky5UJ8J@orion>
Message-ID: <56CC9EB4.9010609@msapiro.net>

On 02/23/2016 05:19 AM, Simone Lazzaris wrote:
> Hi all;
> I've installed and configured mailman 3 (using mailman-bundler) and it seems 
> working as it should, but I've got an issue with the moderation:


We are working on setting up mailman3-users at mailman3.org (running on
MM 3 of course), but we're not quite there yet.



In the mean time the best list for Mailman 3 and particularly
HyperKitty, Postorius and MailmanBundler issues is
mailman-developers at python.org or you can try the #mailman IRC channel on
freenode.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From listgnome at protonmail.ch  Tue Feb 23 18:44:34 2016
From: listgnome at protonmail.ch (ListGnome ProtonMail)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2016 18:44:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modifying Privacy.py
Message-ID: <929eNgODXm2BRGILw9UPx-UZGlIUz3BHN1j6CGgKqYvzeyo1UgtzedFNkHWHNdKNGBewr1W2XcTZdSUtLhaNTQ==@protonmail.ch>

Hi All,
I'm attempting to modify the subscription options in the Admin section under "Privacy options: What steps are required for subscription?".

There are currently three option and I'm trying to remove "Confirm" so that the only two options remain - "Require approval" and "Confirm and approve".

In the file "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py" I've tried removing the lines that relate to "Confirm" - and as expected the Admin page looks okay with only the two desired options showing. However, what happens when someone subscribs is they actually get the "Confirm" process - rather than the expected "Requires approval".

Is there another file I need to be looking at also? Or am I most likely just screwing up the "Privacy.py" file?

Thanks,
Mark

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 23 19:17:09 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2016 16:17:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modifying Privacy.py
In-Reply-To: <929eNgODXm2BRGILw9UPx-UZGlIUz3BHN1j6CGgKqYvzeyo1UgtzedFNkHWHNdKNGBewr1W2XcTZdSUtLhaNTQ==@protonmail.ch>
References: <929eNgODXm2BRGILw9UPx-UZGlIUz3BHN1j6CGgKqYvzeyo1UgtzedFNkHWHNdKNGBewr1W2XcTZdSUtLhaNTQ==@protonmail.ch>
Message-ID: <56CCF685.4080006@msapiro.net>

On 02/23/2016 03:44 PM, ListGnome ProtonMail via Mailman-Users wrote:
> 
> There are currently three option and I'm trying to remove "Confirm"
> so that the only two options remain - "Require approval" and "Confirm
> and approve".
> 
> In the file "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py" I've tried
> removing the lines that relate to "Confirm" - and as expected the
> Admin page looks okay with only the two desired options showing.
> However, what happens when someone subscribs is they actually get the
> "Confirm" process - rather than the expected "Requires approval".
> 
> Is there another file I need to be looking at also? Or am I most
> likely just screwing up the "Privacy.py" file?


It's much more complicated than that. There are actually four possible
values for subscribe_policy. These values and their meanings are

0 -> Open subscribe, no confirm or approve.
1 -> Confirm, require user confirmation
2 -> Require approval
3 -> Confirm and approve, require user confirmation, then approval

There is already code in Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py to test the
mm_cfg.ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE setting and if it is false, not display the
open subscribe choice AND increment the return value allow for it's not
being there.

By removing the "Confirm" choice you are left with two choices whose
returned POST values will be 0 and 1. The mm_cfg.ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE
code will increment the return, so the two choices are 1 and 2 which are
'Confirm' and 'Require approval' Regardless of what the words say.

So Assuming you will NEVER set ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes, you can just
change the statement in the definition of _setValue() in
Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py from

        if property == 'subscribe_policy' and not
mm_cfg.ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE:
            val += 1

to

        if property == 'subscribe_policy' and not
mm_cfg.ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE:
            val += 2


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 23 21:46:06 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2016 18:46:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] e-mails being kind of blackholed when sent to
 list or list-robot
In-Reply-To: <56CCC6C2.4000800@si6networks.com>
References: <56C40FCD.2020702@gont.com.ar> <56C4B926.5070703@msapiro.net>
 <56C872C8.50603@gont.com.ar> <56C8A571.8080209@msapiro.net>
 <56CCC6C2.4000800@si6networks.com>
Message-ID: <56CD196E.9090306@msapiro.net>

On 02/23/2016 12:53 PM, Fernando Gont wrote:
> On 02/20/2016 02:42 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> Yes, it is needed. It is the sender of various notices including monthly
>> password reminders an the recipient of bounces thereof. 
> 
> Why do yu actually need a *list* for sending such info?


You don't, but that's the way Mailman 2.x is designed so it is required.

>> It is also
>> exposed on the web admin and listinfo overview pages as a 'help' address
>> and depending on config may receive error notices from Mailman's cron
>> jobs. As such, it should have the Mailman admins as members and accept
>> non-member posts.
> 
> I guess that when you lists get created, the corresponding admins get
> added to such list?


No they don't. The people who are members of the site (mailman) list
should be site admins, not necessarily list admins. The membership of
this list is up to the site. No one is a member by default.


> Besides, it seems I'm receiving tons of spam messages on that this. Is
> post from not subscribers actually needed? What kind of info is sent to
> all list-admins?


You don't need to accept non-member posts. Mailman doesn't care if the
list has no members and all non-member posts are discarded, but there
are reasons to not do this.

Perhaps the most important is Mailman normally has a crontab which runs
several Mailman cron jobs. If you don't have a specific 'MAILTO='
setting in that crontab, and most people don't, any errors in those cron
jobs get sent to 'mailman' which is the 'mailman' list, and if you
discard those posts, you don't see them.

Further, the mailman at ... address is exposed on the default listinfo and
admin overview pages as an address to request help. It's not very
friendly to just discard those requests.

There are other ways to deal with this. First, Mailman is not a spam
filter. You should have good spam filtering in your MTA ahead of Mailman.

Also, if you don't want to accept non-member posts to the Mailman list,
you should at least consider setting an auto-responder to posts
explaining where to really go for help.

>>> More comments in-line...

>> In which case, you are using postfix_to_mailman.py delivery, but you
>> also have hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases in alias_maps in Postfix
>> and MTA='Postfix' uncommented in mm_cfg.py
> 
> I fixed the config as you suggested. Any clues what could possibly go
> wrong with the bad settings I had?


Probably nothing would go wrong, but MTA='Postfix' makes Mailman do
extra, unnecessary work to maintain data/aliases(.db) as lists are
created and removed, and having hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases in
Postfix alias_maps could confuse someone into thinking it's actually
being used for something and distract them from understanding that some
problem is really with postfix_to_mailman.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From fgont at si6networks.com  Tue Feb 23 15:53:22 2016
From: fgont at si6networks.com (Fernando Gont)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2016 17:53:22 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] e-mails being kind of blackholed when sent to
 list or list-robot
In-Reply-To: <56C8A571.8080209@msapiro.net>
References: <56C40FCD.2020702@gont.com.ar> <56C4B926.5070703@msapiro.net>
 <56C872C8.50603@gont.com.ar> <56C8A571.8080209@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56CCC6C2.4000800@si6networks.com>

On 02/20/2016 02:42 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 2/20/16 6:06 AM, Fernando Gont wrote:
>>
>> Meta answer: quite to my surprise, the problem was that mailman wasn't
>> running. Apparently the reason was that, when the system was rebooted,
>> mailman failed to start because there was no mailman@ list. Once I
>> created it, the problem was solved. (is this list really needed?)
> 
> 
> Yes, it is needed. It is the sender of various notices including monthly
> password reminders an the recipient of bounces thereof. 

Why do yu actually need a *list* for sending such info?


> It is also
> exposed on the web admin and listinfo overview pages as a 'help' address
> and depending on config may receive error notices from Mailman's cron
> jobs. As such, it should have the Mailman admins as members and accept
> non-member posts.

I guess that when you lists get created, the corresponding admins get
added to such list?

Besides, it seems I'm receiving tons of spam messages on that this. Is
post from not subscribers actually needed? What kind of info is sent to
all list-admins?



>> More comments in-line...
> ...
>>>
>>> Do the actual entries contain things like
>>>
>>> status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request
>>> ipv6hackers)
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post
>>> ipv6hackers)
>>>
>>> Or do they perhaps say
>>>
>>> status=sent (delivered via mailman service)
>>
>> The later.
> 
> 
> In which case, you are using postfix_to_mailman.py delivery, but you
> also have hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases in alias_maps in Postfix
> and MTA='Postfix' uncommented in mm_cfg.py

I fixed the config as you suggested. Any clues what could possibly go
wrong with the bad settings I had?


>> I thought that the emails had been lost, but when I was finally able to
>> start mailman, it turned out they wasn't. -- I assume postfix coudln't
>> really handle the mails to mailman, and hence queued them?
> 
> 
> Not exactly. Postfix delivered the mail via postfix_to_mailman.py and it
> queued the mail in Mailman's in/ queue where it waited for
> IncomingRunner to process it. When you started Mailman (actually the
> qrunners), IncomingRunner processed the mail.
> 
> Also note, steps 2.2 and 6.2 in the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/4030723> would have pointed you to the problem.

Yep, I was able to solve the problem when I found this. (the FAQ made me
realize "mailman wasn't running", and then, when running mailmanctl I
found why).

Thanks!

Best regards,
-- 
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont at si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492





From igor at mmmm.sk  Wed Feb 24 08:51:39 2016
From: igor at mmmm.sk (Igor Maly)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:51:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 list description - non-ASCII characters?
Message-ID: <053501d16f0a$7c87b680$75972380$@mmmm.sk>

Hello all,
I've been playing with Mailman 3 and ran into this issue:

I'd like to use non-ASCII characters  in list description.
To keep it simple, let's assume I want the list description to be single
character "?" (Unicode: \u00e1, UTF-8: C3 A1).
I can enter such a description in list identity page
(http://MYHOST:8000/mailman3/lists/MYLIST/settings/list_identity, field
Description).
After hitting Save changes the description still reads "?", but reloading
the settings page yields a?single question mark "?" there.
Lists overview (http://MYHOST:8000/mailman3/lists/) shows "?" too in
Description column.

Is there any configuration option to enable non-ASCII characters here, or am
I stuck?

Best regards,
Igor Maly


From igor at mmmm.sk  Wed Feb 24 09:50:28 2016
From: igor at mmmm.sk (Igor Maly)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 15:50:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 mass subscribe
Message-ID: <059601d16f12$b424cc60$1c6e6520$@mmmm.sk>

Hello all,

I've created a test list under Mailman 3 and subscribed my 2 addresses to it
via mass subscribe.

I entered only addresses, not real names ("addr at domain.tld" instead of "Name
<addr at domain.tld>").

On both addresses, I've received the expected welcome mail.

But:

(1)    Recipient of the welcome mail is "None <mail-address>", which yields
"None" as recipient name in my mail client (Outlook 2010). I would assume
that, since I did not enter any name, the mail should be addressed "To:
addr at domain.tld" instead of "To: None <addr at domain.tld>".

(2)    In the welcome mail there are some links customized with maillist
name and such. The link "General information about the mailing list is at:"
is fine, reading "https://MYHOST/listinfo/MYLIST". However, the following
link "If you ever want to .. subscription page at" points to
"http://example.com/MYADDRESS", which is clearly wrong. Instead of
example.com there should be MYHOST, and perhaps something more before
MYADDRESS.

 

Best regards,

Igor Maly


From barry at list.org  Wed Feb 24 12:37:08 2016
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 12:37:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 mass subscribe
In-Reply-To: <059601d16f12$b424cc60$1c6e6520$@mmmm.sk>
References: <059601d16f12$b424cc60$1c6e6520$@mmmm.sk>
Message-ID: <20160224123708.19426117@subdivisions.wooz.org>

On Feb 24, 2016, at 03:50 PM, Igor Maly wrote:

>(1)Recipient of the welcome mail is "None <mail-address>", which yields
>"None" as recipient name in my mail client (Outlook 2010).

That's clearly a bug.  Please file that:

https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues

>(2)In the welcome mail there are some links customized with maillist
>name and such. The link "General information about the mailing list is at:"
>is fine, reading "https://MYHOST/listinfo/MYLIST". However, the following
>link "If you ever want to .. subscription page at" points to
>"http://example.com/MYADDRESS", which is clearly wrong. Instead of
>example.com there should be MYHOST, and perhaps something more before
>MYADDRESS.

That's a known deficiency in the templating system for MM3.  There are bugs
and branches in progress to address this, but it won't happen before 3.1.

Cheers,
-Barry

From barry at list.org  Wed Feb 24 12:40:59 2016
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 12:40:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 list description - non-ASCII
 characters?
In-Reply-To: <053501d16f0a$7c87b680$75972380$@mmmm.sk>
References: <053501d16f0a$7c87b680$75972380$@mmmm.sk>
Message-ID: <20160224124059.2e3df914@subdivisions.wooz.org>

On Feb 24, 2016, at 02:51 PM, Igor Maly wrote:

>I'd like to use non-ASCII characters  in list description.
>To keep it simple, let's assume I want the list description to be single
>character "?" (Unicode: \u00e1, UTF-8: C3 A1).
>I can enter such a description in list identity page
>(http://MYHOST:8000/mailman3/lists/MYLIST/settings/list_identity, field
>Description).
>After hitting Save changes the description still reads "?", but reloading
>the settings page yields a?single question mark "?" there.
>Lists overview (http://MYHOST:8000/mailman3/lists/) shows "?" too in
>Description column.

I don't know whether that's a problem in Postorius, core, or both.  You'd have
to inspect the database entry or the ORM MailingList object to see what's
stored in the core.  There are several ways to do this; if you're using
SQLite, you could dump out the database table directly.  Or you can use
`mailman shell` to get a prompt, load the mailing list, and print its
description.  Or you can use e.g. the curl command line to query the REST API.

If the value is correct in the core, then it's a display problem in Postorius.

You can also file a bug for the core and Postorius and let us sort it out. :)

Cheers,
-Barry

From List.Admin at unh.edu  Wed Feb 24 17:25:22 2016
From: List.Admin at unh.edu (The Mailing List System Admin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 17:25:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce email going to list server admin not list
 owner...
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602241654390.22266@conundrum.unh.edu>

Didn't have luck researching this question.  I (the list server admin)
recently received the following bounce notice:

> From Joe.Anybody at example.edu Wed Feb 24 15:55:18 2016
> Return-Path: <mailman-loop at lists.example.edu>
> From: "Anybody, Joe" <Joe.Anybody at example.edu>
> To: Xyz.Forum <mailman-bounces at lists.example.edu>
> Subject: Automatic reply: Added to the list
> Thread-Topic: Added to the list
> X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All
> X-MS-Exchange-Inbox-Rules-Loop: Joe.Anybody at example.edu
> auto-submitted: auto-generated
> x-ms-exchange-generated-message-source: Mailbox Rules Agent
> Errors-To: mailman-loop at lists.example.edu
> Sender: "Mailman" <mailman-loop at lists.example.edu>
> Subject: Automatic reply: Added to the list
> 
> I am out of the office...

I don't understand why this bounce went to the server admin list...

     mailman-bounces: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"

and not the bounce address for the specific list involved...

     xyz.forum-bounces: |"/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces xyz.forum"

It is apparent from the "To:" that the name of the list involved was
known.  I did a dump of the "Xyz.Forum" list's config for what appear
to be the relevant parameters:

     bounce_processing = True
     bounce_score_threshold = 5.0
     bounce_info_stale_after = 7
     bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 3
     bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 7
     bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner = True
     bounce_notify_owner_on_bounce_increment = 1
     bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = True
     bounce_notify_owner_on_removal = True

And I searched the logs for entries specific to this list and/or this
particular subscriber:

     subscribe:Jan 29 08:51:54 2016 (22963) xyz.forum: pending Joe Anybody <joe.anybody at example.edu>  rl-cz364x1.ad.example.edu

     subscribe:Jan 29 08:54:30 2016 (23022) xyz.forum: new Joe Anybody <joe.anybody at example.edu>, via admin approval

     vette:Jan 29 08:53:18 2016 (3783) xyz.forum: held subscription request from joe.anybody at example.edu

There is nothing in the `bounce` itself log that appears to be related
to either.

I don't mind getting bounces where a specific list is unknown, but
list specific bounces really need to go to the list owner.  We have
far too many lists to do otherwise.

    - Using Mailman version: 2.1.20
    - Python 2.4.3 (#1, Oct 23 2012, 22:02:41)
    - Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server release 5.11 (Tikanga)

-- 
                                   Cordially,
                                   the UNH Mailing List System Admins
                                   Bill Costa, senior admin
                                   (603) 862-3056

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 24 21:22:22 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 18:22:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce email going to list server admin not
 list owner...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602241654390.22266@conundrum.unh.edu>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602241654390.22266@conundrum.unh.edu>
Message-ID: <56CE655E.5070006@msapiro.net>

On 02/24/2016 02:25 PM, The Mailing List System Admin wrote:
> Didn't have luck researching this question.  I (the list server admin)
> recently received the following bounce notice:
> 
>> From Joe.Anybody at example.edu Wed Feb 24 15:55:18 2016
>> Return-Path: <mailman-loop at lists.example.edu>
>> From: "Anybody, Joe" <Joe.Anybody at example.edu>
>> To: Xyz.Forum <mailman-bounces at lists.example.edu>
>> Subject: Automatic reply: Added to the list
>> Thread-Topic: Added to the list
>> X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All
>> X-MS-Exchange-Inbox-Rules-Loop: Joe.Anybody at example.edu
>> auto-submitted: auto-generated
>> x-ms-exchange-generated-message-source: Mailbox Rules Agent
>> Errors-To: mailman-loop at lists.example.edu
>> Sender: "Mailman" <mailman-loop at lists.example.edu>
>> Subject: Automatic reply: Added to the list
>>
>> I am out of the office...
> 
> I don't understand why this bounce went to the server admin list...
> 
>     mailman-bounces: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
> 
> and not the bounce address for the specific list involved...
> 
>     xyz.forum-bounces: |"/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces xyz.forum"
> 
> It is apparent from the "To:" that the name of the list involved was
> known.



it is unclear to me what is going on here. I.e. this is an out of office
reply from "Anybody, Joe" <Joe.Anybody at example.edu> and it is being sent
to Xyz.Forum <mailman-bounces at lists.example.edu>.

The questions are to what message is this out of office reply replying,
and is mailman-bounces at ... the appropriate address for this or is this a
case of an out-of-office responder replying to an inappropriate address.

Note that monthly password reminders are sent from the mailman list as
they are not necessarily specific to a single list, so out-of office
replies may goto the mailman list in these cases, but this does not seem
to be a response to a password reminder.

I do not recognize the Subject "Automatic reply: Added to the list", so
I don't know what this message is.

All I can suggest is you look at your MTA logs and try to determine to
what message this is a response and what generated this message. Then we
may be able to go further with this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Feb 24 21:38:19 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:38:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce email going to list server admin not list
 owner...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602241654390.22266@conundrum.unh.edu>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602241654390.22266@conundrum.unh.edu>
Message-ID: <22222.26907.983768.898740@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

The Mailing List System Admin writes:

 > Didn't have luck researching this question.  I (the list server admin)
 > recently received the following bounce notice:

 > > From Joe.Anybody at example.edu Wed Feb 24 15:55:18 2016
 > > Return-Path: <mailman-loop at lists.example.edu>
 > > From: "Anybody, Joe" <Joe.Anybody at example.edu>
 > > To: Xyz.Forum <mailman-bounces at lists.example.edu>
 > > Subject: Automatic reply: Added to the list
 > > Thread-Topic: Added to the list
 > > X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All
 > > X-MS-Exchange-Inbox-Rules-Loop: Joe.Anybody at example.edu
 > > auto-submitted: auto-generated
 > > x-ms-exchange-generated-message-source: Mailbox Rules Agent
 > > Errors-To: mailman-loop at lists.example.edu
 > > Sender: "Mailman" <mailman-loop at lists.example.edu>
 > > Subject: Automatic reply: Added to the list
 > >  > > I am out of the office...
 > 
 > I don't understand why this bounce went to the server admin list...
 >
 >      mailman-bounces: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"

Because it was explicitly addressed to that mailbox.

 > and not the bounce address for the specific list involved...
 > 
 >      xyz.forum-bounces: |"/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces xyz.forum"
 >

This isn't a bounce.  A bounce is an *undeliverable* message returned
to sender, and indicates that the user's mailbox is temporarily or
permanently invalid.

The message was delivered, and there is no need for bounce processing.
This mailbox is clearly not invalid.  The user is just ignoring it,
and telling people not to expect intelligent responses for a while.

 > I did a dump of the "Xyz.Forum" list's config for what appear
 > to be the relevant parameters:

They're not, because this isn't a bounce.

 > It is apparent from the "To:" that the name of the list involved was
 > known.

I'm not sure why this user's "vacation" message was addressed to
"mailman-bounces".  Probably because subscription notifications are
handled at the server, rather than the list, level.  It does appear
from such messages I have in my archives that messages from the
software are "From" the site rather than "From" the list.

I doubt the format of "you were subscribed" messages is going to
change for Mailman 2 (but Mark is authoritative on that).  It might be
a reasonable feature request for Mailman 3.  However, it would have to
be examined carefully for the possibility of creating mail loops or
other forms of misaddressing.

 > I don't mind getting bounces where a specific list is unknown, but
 > list specific bounces really need to go to the list owner.

At bottom, this one is a "people" problem.  Somebody subscribed Joe
Anybody to a list while he was on "out of office".  That's a no-no in
any case -- this mailbox is now going to be spamming the list with
"out of the office" messages.  Vacation agents don't work and play
nicely with mailing lists.  Somebody ought to tune yours to not
respond to list traffic, or disable it altogether.

There are three header fields that could be used for this purpose:
X-Mailman-Version, X-List-Administrivia, and List-ID.  I think
X-Mailman-Version is present in all Mailman traffic (hardcoded).
X-List-Administrivia won't appear in posts, and List-ID *should* be
present but it is a configuration option.

Also, this kind of event could in fact indicate a site-wide problem,
in the case of a "joe job" where the victim is signed up for numerous
mailing lists to annoy them (and perhaps execute a DoS attack if
there's a limit on the size of the mailbox).

From List.Admin at unh.edu  Thu Feb 25 10:10:53 2016
From: List.Admin at unh.edu (The Mailing List System Admin)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:10:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce email going to list server admin not
 list owner...
In-Reply-To: <22222.26907.983768.898740@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602241654390.22266@conundrum.unh.edu>
 <22222.26907.983768.898740@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602250933090.29600@conundrum.unh.edu>

Thanks to both Mark (MS) and Stephen for their replies.

MS> All I can suggest is you look at your MTA logs and try to
MS> determine to what message this is a response and what generated
MS> this message.

I track down the original message id, here's what I found in the MTA
logs...

1) Msg from sally.non.member@ to the.list-owner@

Now the 'Added to list' subject line starts to make sense.

2) Msg from mailman-bounces to the list owners which so happens to
    include Joe.Anybody who is both a subscriber and an owner of the
    list.

So it looks like message bounces to a list owner go to the list server
admin, which is definitely desirable and appropriate.

To paraphrase Obi-Wan Kenobi, "Use the logs, Luke -- *all* of the
logs."  Thanks for helping me figure this out.

-- 
                                   Cordially,
                                   the UNH Mailing List System Admins
                                   Bill Costa, senior admin
                                   (603) 862-3056

From wa20854 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 01:35:03 2016
From: wa20854 at gmail.com (Win Aung)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 01:35:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Mailman listserv from one university to
 another
Message-ID: <57BA88CCD5CE4F3FBB5B12EF43AF2F52@AnniePC>

I am the administrator of a Mailman listserv that has been in operation for more than 15 years with about 25,000 members. Recently, we moved the mail server from university (A) to university (B). The move was carried out by B downloading the entire mail server files (17 GB) from A and installing it. It now turns out that B has no experience with Mailman, and it is up to me to make it work. I have experience only as an administrator, and not with the software aspect. I was able to access the administrator interface at the new home, but when I tried to post a message, it did not show up on the approval/discard page. Clearly, Mailman has not been properly set up at its new home. 

I would appreciate any help / advice on what I need to do to make it work. 

Thanks in advance.      




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

From jarifibrahim at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 11:52:38 2016
From: jarifibrahim at gmail.com (Ibrahim Jarif)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 22:22:38 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with installation
Message-ID: <CAPJiOVaEcvd2aKBzxi=cYknBSWygJC22EF9X3H8tBycQf-NMjw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I'm Ibrahim !

I'm to setup mailman as per this link
http://wiki.list.org/HyperKitty/DevelopmentSetupGuide

The documentation asks to setup hyperkitty using this link
https://hyperkitty.readthedocs.org/en/latest/development.html. At the
'Setting up the databases' step running

django-admin migrate --pythonpath hyperkitty_standalone --settings settings

throws importError. Refer the attachment.

I'd really appreciate if someone could help me out.
Thank you.

Regards,
Ibrahim Jarif

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 25 12:42:53 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 09:42:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with installation
In-Reply-To: <CAPJiOVaEcvd2aKBzxi=cYknBSWygJC22EF9X3H8tBycQf-NMjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPJiOVaEcvd2aKBzxi=cYknBSWygJC22EF9X3H8tBycQf-NMjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56CF3D1D.4050707@msapiro.net>

On 02/24/2016 08:52 AM, Ibrahim Jarif wrote:
> 
> I'm to setup mailman as per this link
> http://wiki.list.org/HyperKitty/DevelopmentSetupGuide


We are working on setting up mailman-users at mailman3.org (running on
MM 3 of course), but we're not quite there yet.



In the mean time the best list for Mailman 3 and particularly
HyperKitty, Postorius and MailmanBundler issues is
mailman-developers at python.org or you can try the #mailman IRC channel on
freenode.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From igor at mmmm.sk  Thu Feb 25 12:36:25 2016
From: igor at mmmm.sk (Igor Maly)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:36:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 list description - non-ASCII
 characters?
In-Reply-To: <20160224124059.2e3df914@subdivisions.wooz.org>
References: <053501d16f0a$7c87b680$75972380$@mmmm.sk>
 <20160224124059.2e3df914@subdivisions.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <00ef01d16ff3$0d5d4f10$2817ed30$@mmmm.sk>

>>I'd like to use non-ASCII characters  in list description.
>>To keep it simple, let's assume I want the list description to be 
>>single character "?" (Unicode: \u00e1, UTF-8: C3 A1).
>>I can enter such a description in list identity page 
>>(http://MYHOST:8000/mailman3/lists/MYLIST/settings/list_identity, field 
>>Description).
>>After hitting Save changes the description still reads "?", but 
>>reloading the settings page yields a single question mark "?" there.
>>Lists overview (http://MYHOST:8000/mailman3/lists/) shows "?" too in 
>>Description column.

>Barry Warsaw:
>I don't know whether that's a problem in Postorius, core, or both.
>You'd have to inspect the database entry or the ORM MailingList object 
>to see what's stored in the core. There are several ways to do this; 
>if you're using SQLite, you could dump out the database table directly. 

Let's see:

root at srv01:/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/var/data# sqlite3 mailman.db
sqlite> select description from mailinglist;
?
sqlite> select unicode(description) from mailinglist;
63
sqlite> update mailinglist set description="?" where description="?";
sqlite> select description from mailinglist;
?
sqlite> select unicode(description) from mailinglist;
225

After this update, the description is what I wanted. It shows correctly both in lists overview and in the list identity page.
If I hit Save changes from GUI, I get "?" again.
So it would seem the problem is getting non-ASCII char from GUI to the db.
I even tried the db-update-way with longer non-ASCII strings, and everything was fine up until (re)saving the description from GUI.
Shall I file a bug?

Thanks,
-igor



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 25 12:53:41 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 09:53:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Mailman listserv from one university
 to another
In-Reply-To: <57BA88CCD5CE4F3FBB5B12EF43AF2F52@AnniePC>
References: <57BA88CCD5CE4F3FBB5B12EF43AF2F52@AnniePC>
Message-ID: <56CF3FA5.5040606@msapiro.net>

On 02/24/2016 10:35 PM, Win Aung wrote:
> I am the administrator of a Mailman listserv


Please see <http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20is%20not%20Listserv>


> that has been in
> operation for more than 15 years with about 25,000 members. Recently,
> we moved the mail server from university (A) to university (B). The
> move was carried out by B downloading the entire mail server files
> (17 GB) from A and installing it. It now turns out that B has no
> experience with Mailman, and it is up to me to make it work. I have
> experience only as an administrator, and not with the software
> aspect. I was able to access the administrator interface at the new
> home, but when I tried to post a message, it did not show up on the
> approval/discard page. Clearly, Mailman has not been properly set up
> at its new home.
> 
> I would appreciate any help / advice on what I need to do to make it
> work.


In order to understand what's wrong, we need more info. In particular,
information from the MTA logs regarding the incoming message and its
disposition and information from Mailman's logs if the message got that far.

Also, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4030723>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From List.Admin at unh.edu  Thu Feb 25 12:40:15 2016
From: List.Admin at unh.edu (The Mailing List System Admin)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:40:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HyperKitty and Mailman V2
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602251237520.31641@conundrum.unh.edu>

HyperKitty looks really good.  The scription says...

"HyperKitty is a Django-based application providing a web interface to
  access GNU Mailman v3 archives, and interact with the lists."

Does anybody know off hand if there is there any reason it couldn't be
used with Mailman V2?

-- 
                                   Cordially,
                                   the UNH Mailing List System Admins
                                   Bill Costa, senior admin
                                   (603) 862-3056

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 25 14:04:53 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:04:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Mailman listserv from one university
 to another
In-Reply-To: <CAACejX6UgKBMN_RzhsFtuVurq7eXoV2B0w+hmy-RmdYqiERHHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57BA88CCD5CE4F3FBB5B12EF43AF2F52@AnniePC>
 <56CF3FA5.5040606@msapiro.net>
 <CAACejX6UgKBMN_RzhsFtuVurq7eXoV2B0w+hmy-RmdYqiERHHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56CF5055.5020606@msapiro.net>

On 02/25/2016 10:18 AM, Win Aung wrote:
> Hi, Mark: The ISP told me the recipient server would not accept my
> E-mail so it did not get that far.


So now you need to properly configure the MTA on the recipient (Mailman)
server to accept list mail and deliver it to Mailman.

How you do this depends on the MTA and requires root access to the
server. See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/mail-server.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 25 13:59:36 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:59:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HyperKitty and Mailman V2
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602251237520.31641@conundrum.unh.edu>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602251237520.31641@conundrum.unh.edu>
Message-ID: <56CF4F18.8020105@msapiro.net>

On 02/25/2016 09:40 AM, The Mailing List System Admin wrote:
> HyperKitty looks really good.  The scription says...
> 
> "HyperKitty is a Django-based application providing a web interface to
>  access GNU Mailman v3 archives, and interact with the lists."
> 
> Does anybody know off hand if there is there any reason it couldn't be
> used with Mailman V2?


HyperKitty communicates with the Mailman 3 core engine via a RESTful API
which doesn't exist in MM 2.x.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From wa20854 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 15:10:52 2016
From: wa20854 at gmail.com (Win Aung)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 15:10:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Mailman listserv from one university
 to another
In-Reply-To: <56CF5055.5020606@msapiro.net>
References: <57BA88CCD5CE4F3FBB5B12EF43AF2F52@AnniePC>
 <56CF3FA5.5040606@msapiro.net>
 <CAACejX6UgKBMN_RzhsFtuVurq7eXoV2B0w+hmy-RmdYqiERHHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <56CF5055.5020606@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <6CC45645E091430EAA547F289A756350@AnniePC>

Please my ignorance. What is MTA?


-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 2:04 PM
To: Win Aung ; Mailman Users
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Mailman listserv from one university 
to another

On 02/25/2016 10:18 AM, Win Aung wrote:
> Hi, Mark: The ISP told me the recipient server would not accept my
> E-mail so it did not get that far.


So now you need to properly configure the MTA on the recipient (Mailman)
server to accept list mail and deliver it to Mailman.

How you do this depends on the MTA and requires root access to the
server. See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/mail-server.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 25 15:43:34 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:43:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Mailman listserv from one university
 to another
In-Reply-To: <6CC45645E091430EAA547F289A756350@AnniePC>
References: <57BA88CCD5CE4F3FBB5B12EF43AF2F52@AnniePC>
 <56CF3FA5.5040606@msapiro.net>
 <CAACejX6UgKBMN_RzhsFtuVurq7eXoV2B0w+hmy-RmdYqiERHHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <56CF5055.5020606@msapiro.net> <6CC45645E091430EAA547F289A756350@AnniePC>
Message-ID: <56CF6776.90608@msapiro.net>

On 02/25/2016 12:10 PM, Win Aung wrote:
> Please my ignorance. What is MTA?


Mail Transfer Agent. This is the service which receives mail from the
network and delivers mail to the network via SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer
Protocol).

Common MTAs include Postfix, Sendmail, Exim, Qmail and Courrier. See
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_transfer_agent>.

I respectfully suggest if you don't understand these things, you are
over your head and you will need the help and support of the people who
administer the server on which Mailman is installed at University (B).
There has to be someone there who understands what an MTA is and how to
configure the one in use. We can help with Mailman specific issues that
come up, but teaching *nix system administration is beyond the scope of
this list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From wa20854 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 16:33:01 2016
From: wa20854 at gmail.com (Win Aung)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 16:33:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Mailman listserv from one university
 to another
In-Reply-To: <56CF6776.90608@msapiro.net>
References: <57BA88CCD5CE4F3FBB5B12EF43AF2F52@AnniePC>
 <56CF3FA5.5040606@msapiro.net>
 <CAACejX6UgKBMN_RzhsFtuVurq7eXoV2B0w+hmy-RmdYqiERHHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <56CF5055.5020606@msapiro.net> <6CC45645E091430EAA547F289A756350@AnniePC>
 <56CF6776.90608@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <50892DEDEBE5401490BB2626CCB011A2@AnniePC>

Hi, Mark: You are right. I will forward the info to the people in Croatia. 
They are not familiar with Mailman but are highly qualified IT experts. Just 
want to know what I will be telling them - for my own benefit. Thanks.

Win Aung.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 3:43 PM
To: Win Aung ; Mailman Users
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Mailman listserv from one university 
to another

On 02/25/2016 12:10 PM, Win Aung wrote:
> Please my ignorance. What is MTA?


Mail Transfer Agent. This is the service which receives mail from the
network and delivers mail to the network via SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer
Protocol).

Common MTAs include Postfix, Sendmail, Exim, Qmail and Courrier. See
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_transfer_agent>.

I respectfully suggest if you don't understand these things, you are
over your head and you will need the help and support of the people who
administer the server on which Mailman is installed at University (B).
There has to be someone there who understands what an MTA is and how to
configure the one in use. We can help with Mailman specific issues that
come up, but teaching *nix system administration is beyond the scope of
this list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From hone at ohio.edu  Fri Feb 26 10:35:38 2016
From: hone at ohio.edu (Hone, Don)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 15:35:38 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] banned subscription questions
Message-ID: <BLUPR01MB12364195988F44AC1C93545AADA70@BLUPR01MB1236.prod.exchangelabs.com>

I'm able to ban a specific email address by using the withlist command:

~mailman/bin/withlist -a -r add_banned -- address at domain.com

Is there a command that I can use to reverse this?

What is the correct format to ban all addresses in a domain? *@domain.com didn't seem to do it for me.


From lee.mager at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 10:53:36 2016
From: lee.mager at gmail.com (George Mager)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 10:53:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scrub of PDF files
Message-ID: <E96F613F-E7C7-4AEF-9DC1-7E537B7EBE76@gmail.com>

I administer a mailman list server for my community association.  I have two issues:

1. I never see a return copy of messages I send to the list.

2. Messages with attachments of type application/pdf are evidently being scrubbed.  How do I allow attached PDF files to be forwarded to the list.

I am certain that both of these are simple configuration issues, but I haven?t been able to figure them out.

Lee Mager
lee.mager at gmail.com


From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Feb 26 11:03:49 2016
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 08:03:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scrub of PDF files
In-Reply-To: <E96F613F-E7C7-4AEF-9DC1-7E537B7EBE76@gmail.com>
References: <E96F613F-E7C7-4AEF-9DC1-7E537B7EBE76@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D07765.90402@tuunq.com>

On 2/26/2016 7:53 AM, George Mager wrote:
> 1. I never see a return copy of messages I send to the list.

That's a gmail "feature" and is mentioned somewhere in the FAQ. If you want 
to see that the message went out, you'll need a second gmail account to 
catch it.

z!



From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Feb 26 12:03:52 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 02:03:52 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  banned subscription questions
In-Reply-To: <BLUPR01MB12364195988F44AC1C93545AADA70@BLUPR01MB1236.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <BLUPR01MB12364195988F44AC1C93545AADA70@BLUPR01MB1236.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <22224.34168.628954.746288@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Hone, Don writes:

 > I'm able to ban a specific email address by using the withlist command:
 > 
 > ~mailman/bin/withlist -a -r add_banned -- address at domain.com
 > 
 > Is there a command that I can use to reverse this?

I'll have to pass that to Mark, it's his script.

 > What is the correct format to ban all addresses in a domain? 
 > *@domain.com didn't seem to do it for me.

Regular expression.  "*" is not a wildcard in a regular expression, it
is a repetition operator.  The wildcard for "any character" is a
period.  To match any string (including the empty string), use ".*".
To get a literal period, you quote it with "\".  To ban all addresses
in a particular domain, use ".*@domain\.com$".  If there are multiple
periods, you should quote them all with backslashes.




From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Feb 26 12:06:02 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 02:06:02 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HyperKitty and Mailman V2
In-Reply-To: <56CF4F18.8020105@msapiro.net>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1602251237520.31641@conundrum.unh.edu>
 <56CF4F18.8020105@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <22224.34298.597574.591494@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > On 02/25/2016 09:40 AM, The Mailing List System Admin wrote:
 > > HyperKitty looks really good.  The scription says...
 > > 
 > > "HyperKitty is a Django-based application providing a web interface to
 > >  access GNU Mailman v3 archives, and interact with the lists."
 > > 
 > > Does anybody know off hand if there is there any reason it couldn't be
 > > used with Mailman V2?
 > 
 > HyperKitty communicates with the Mailman 3 core engine via a RESTful API
 > which doesn't exist in MM 2.x.

Yeah, that pretty well means out-of-the-box compatibility is out of
the question.  But I wonder how much of the RESTful API is needed?

I don't plan to look at this soon (and maybe not at all with GSoC
looming), so I'm posting to -users only.  But in case somebody else
wants to discuss, it should go to -developers.  Reply-To is set.

From dmofot at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 12:21:53 2016
From: dmofot at gmail.com (DT)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 12:21:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scrub of PDF files
In-Reply-To: <56D07765.90402@tuunq.com>
References: <E96F613F-E7C7-4AEF-9DC1-7E537B7EBE76@gmail.com>
 <56D07765.90402@tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_OHUGsqJAKWodgMgX94XX-8vk4yjLVhCgTV0Bc0kcaWB9QVA@mail.gmail.com>

>From the FAQ:
http://wiki.list.org/DOC/I%20use%20Gmail-Googlemail%2C%20but%20I%20can%27t%20tell%20if%20any%20of%20my%20messages%20have%20been%20posted%20to%20the%20list

A: There is a problem with gmail/googlemail - when you send a message to a
mailing list, any mailing list, gmail doesn't show you your own message as
it comes back from the list. Everybody else sees it, even other gmail
users, but not you. And replies to your message will be threaded with your
post as you sent it, not as it came back (ie without list headers, subject
tags or footers). This is a "feature" of gmail, and there is nothing you or
the list administrator can do about it.

Besides using another email to monitor, you can also just sign up for post
acknowledgments, so you get a confirmation email that your post made it to
the list.

DT

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Carl Zwanzig <cpz at tuunq.com> wrote:

> On 2/26/2016 7:53 AM, George Mager wrote:
>
>> 1. I never see a return copy of messages I send to the list.
>>
>
> That's a gmail "feature" and is mentioned somewhere in the FAQ. If you
> want to see that the message went out, you'll need a second gmail account
> to catch it.
>
> z!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dmofot%40gmail.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 26 14:26:20 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:26:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] banned subscription questions
In-Reply-To: <22224.34168.628954.746288@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <BLUPR01MB12364195988F44AC1C93545AADA70@BLUPR01MB1236.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <22224.34168.628954.746288@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <56D0A6DC.2000903@msapiro.net>

On 02/26/2016 09:03 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Hone, Don writes:
> 
>  > I'm able to ban a specific email address by using the withlist command:
>  > 
>  > ~mailman/bin/withlist -a -r add_banned -- address at domain.com
>  > 
>  > Is there a command that I can use to reverse this?
> 
> I'll have to pass that to Mark, it's his script.


You could modify the script. I.e., make a new script remove_banned.py
which is a copy of add_banned.py with every occurrence of 'add_banned'
replaced by 'remove_banned' and the line

    mlist.ban_list.append(address)

replaced by

    mlist.ban_list.remove(address)

Also, You may be interested in the GLOBAL_BAN_LIST implementation to be
in the latest (2.1.21) Mailman release. See
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1574>.


>  > What is the correct format to ban all addresses in a domain? 
>  > *@domain.com didn't seem to do it for me.
> 
> Regular expression.  "*" is not a wildcard in a regular expression, it
> is a repetition operator.  The wildcard for "any character" is a
> period.  To match any string (including the empty string), use ".*".
> To get a literal period, you quote it with "\".  To ban all addresses
> in a particular domain, use ".*@domain\.com$".  If there are multiple
> periods, you should quote them all with backslashes.


Further, in the ban_list (and many other places in Mailman) if an
address is intended to be a regular expression pattern, it must begin
with '^', so you really want

^.*@domain\.com$

to match any_address at domain.com.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 26 14:40:23 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:40:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scrub of PDF files
In-Reply-To: <E96F613F-E7C7-4AEF-9DC1-7E537B7EBE76@gmail.com>
References: <E96F613F-E7C7-4AEF-9DC1-7E537B7EBE76@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D0AA27.6080102@msapiro.net>

On 02/26/2016 07:53 AM, George Mager wrote:
> I administer a mailman list server for my community association.  I have two issues:
> 
> 1. I never see a return copy of messages I send to the list.


Answered in other replies.


> 2. Messages with attachments of type application/pdf are evidently being scrubbed.  How do I allow attached PDF files to be forwarded to the list.


If you mean PDFs are removed by content filtering, add

application/pdf

and perhaps also

application/nappdf
application/x-pdf

to Content filtering -> pass_mime_types

If you mean PDF's are being removed from plain text format digests and
posts in the list archive, stored aside and replaced by links to the
stored aside file, you can't change that. PDF's are not plain text so
they can't be included inline in a plain text digest or the archive. If
this 'scrubbing' also occurs in individual list messages and MIME format
digests it's because the list's Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest
setting is Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From wa20854 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 15:01:32 2016
From: wa20854 at gmail.com (Win Aung)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 15:01:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Mailman listserv from one university
 to another
In-Reply-To: <50892DEDEBE5401490BB2626CCB011A2@AnniePC>
References: <57BA88CCD5CE4F3FBB5B12EF43AF2F52@AnniePC>
 <56CF3FA5.5040606@msapiro.net>
 <CAACejX6UgKBMN_RzhsFtuVurq7eXoV2B0w+hmy-RmdYqiERHHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <56CF5055.5020606@msapiro.net> <6CC45645E091430EAA547F289A756350@AnniePC>
 <56CF6776.90608@msapiro.net> <50892DEDEBE5401490BB2626CCB011A2@AnniePC>
Message-ID: <5B816A891E904721B600624C1F90D644@AnniePC>

Hi, Mark: Thanks to the tip you gave me, Mailman is working beautifully for 
us as of this afternoon.

Win Aung.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Win Aung
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 4:33 PM
To: Mailman Users ; Mark Sapiro
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Mailman listserv from one university 
to another

Hi, Mark: You are right. I will forward the info to the people in Croatia.
They are not familiar with Mailman but are highly qualified IT experts. Just
want to know what I will be telling them - for my own benefit. Thanks.

Win Aung.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 3:43 PM
To: Win Aung ; Mailman Users
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Mailman listserv from one university
to another

On 02/25/2016 12:10 PM, Win Aung wrote:
> Please my ignorance. What is MTA?


Mail Transfer Agent. This is the service which receives mail from the
network and delivers mail to the network via SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer
Protocol).

Common MTAs include Postfix, Sendmail, Exim, Qmail and Courrier. See
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_transfer_agent>.

I respectfully suggest if you don't understand these things, you are
over your head and you will need the help and support of the people who
administer the server on which Mailman is installed at University (B).
There has to be someone there who understands what an MTA is and how to
configure the one in use. We can help with Mailman specific issues that
come up, but teaching *nix system administration is beyond the scope of
this list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Feb 26 23:53:21 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 13:53:21 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Mailman listserv from one university
 to another
In-Reply-To: <5B816A891E904721B600624C1F90D644@AnniePC>
References: <57BA88CCD5CE4F3FBB5B12EF43AF2F52@AnniePC>
 <56CF3FA5.5040606@msapiro.net>
 <CAACejX6UgKBMN_RzhsFtuVurq7eXoV2B0w+hmy-RmdYqiERHHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <56CF5055.5020606@msapiro.net>
 <6CC45645E091430EAA547F289A756350@AnniePC>
 <56CF6776.90608@msapiro.net>
 <50892DEDEBE5401490BB2626CCB011A2@AnniePC>
 <5B816A891E904721B600624C1F90D644@AnniePC>
Message-ID: <22225.11201.182665.809119@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Thanks for the followup!  It's always nice to hear about the success
stories.

Win Aung writes:
 > Hi, Mark: Thanks to the tip you gave me, Mailman is working beautifully for 
 > us as of this afternoon.

From jarifibrahim at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 00:26:24 2016
From: jarifibrahim at gmail.com (Ibrahim Jarif)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 10:56:24 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to unsubscribe
Message-ID: <CAPJiOVbyx7_TJkn2b3MvMJ6=ieqtpt=KSK3zHEQRXoRtOD23tw@mail.gmail.com>

The mail I got after subscribing to this list mentioned
" To unsubscribe send email at mailman-users-remove at python.org"

Gmail reports that delivery to this email has failed permanently. "
mailman-users-remove at python.org does not exist"

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 27 01:10:16 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 22:10:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <CAPJiOVbyx7_TJkn2b3MvMJ6=ieqtpt=KSK3zHEQRXoRtOD23tw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPJiOVbyx7_TJkn2b3MvMJ6=ieqtpt=KSK3zHEQRXoRtOD23tw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D13DC8.8070703@msapiro.net>

On 02/26/2016 09:26 PM, Ibrahim Jarif wrote:
> The mail I got after subscribing to this list mentioned
> " To unsubscribe send email at mailman-users-remove at python.org"
> 
> Gmail reports that delivery to this email has failed permanently. "
> mailman-users-remove at python.org does not exist"


If you still have that email, I'd like to see it to figure out where it
came from.

The ways to request unsubscription from this list by email are by
sending any email message From: your subscribed address to either
mailman-users-leave at python.org or mailman-users-unsubscribe at python.org
or by sending an email message with an appropriate "unsubscribe" command
in the Subject: or body to mailman-users-request at python.org.

As gmail said, mailman-users-remove at python.org is not a valid address.

The following header is in every post sent from this list:

List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users>,
 <mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>


See
<http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%202.1%20Members%20Manual#A5.2_How_do_I_leave_a_list.3F_.28unsubscribe.29>
for more.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Sun Feb 28 01:57:43 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 01:57:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
Message-ID: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>

Hello

How do I speed up mailman so that it works instantaneously and stops
storing messages.

Ruben
-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From seun.ojedeji at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 03:15:11 2016
From: seun.ojedeji at gmail.com (Seun Ojedeji)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 09:15:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAD_dc6jWmA8SN+O-bKWPmEw2fNvEPE9et_NKs_xxFrbX8OyCBg@mail.gmail.com>

It's a factor of postfix than it is for mailman. However you could reduce
the level of moderation so things can pass scrutiny as fast on the mailman
side.

Cheers!

Sent from my LG G4
Kindly excuse brevity and typos
On 28 Feb 2016 07:58, "Ruben Safir" <mrbrklyn at panix.com> wrote:

> Hello
>
> How do I speed up mailman so that it works instantaneously and stops
> storing messages.
>
> Ruben
> --
> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
> that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
> proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
>
> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
> http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
> http://www.brooklyn-living.com
>
> Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
> but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/seun.ojedeji%40gmail.com
>

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Sun Feb 28 03:43:45 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 03:43:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <CAD_dc6jWmA8SN+O-bKWPmEw2fNvEPE9et_NKs_xxFrbX8OyCBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <CAD_dc6jWmA8SN+O-bKWPmEw2fNvEPE9et_NKs_xxFrbX8OyCBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D2B341.9040109@panix.com>

On 02/28/2016 03:15 AM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
> It's a factor of postfix than it is for mailman. However you could reduce
> the level of moderation so things can pass scrutiny as fast on the mailman
> side.
> 

everything directly mailed through postfix goes straight through without
any delay.  So I'm at a loss to understand it.


> Cheers!
> 
> Sent from my LG G4
> Kindly excuse brevity and typos
> On 28 Feb 2016 07:58, "Ruben Safir" <mrbrklyn at panix.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hello
>>
>> How do I speed up mailman so that it works instantaneously and stops
>> storing messages.
>>
>> Ruben
>> --
>> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
>> that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
>> proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
>> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
>>
>> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
>> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
>> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
>> http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
>> http://www.brooklyn-living.com
>>
>> Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
>> but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe:
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/seun.ojedeji%40gmail.com
>>
> 


-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Feb 28 03:47:08 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:47:08 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
Message-ID: <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Ruben Safir writes:

 > How do I speed up mailman so that it works instantaneously and stops
 > storing messages.

If you mean "Mailman is administratively holding messages until
released by a moderator," you need to tell us more about your current
configuration and needs.  There are several reasons why Mailman will
hold messages -- what is the reason that Mailman gives for holding
your messages?

OTOH, if it's performance problem and messages are piling up in
queues, well, that is simply how mail works: put the message in a file
where the next program in the pipeline will find it and pass it on.
In fact, Mailman is capable of filling pretty much any pipe you're
likely to have available.  (People very frequently complain that
Mailman sends too much mail too fast.)  If there's a performance
problem, almost surely either your ISP is throttling you, or your MTA
is misconfigured.  Again, we need to know more about how Mailman is
installed, what you're trying to do, and what the other software
involved is (at least an MTA such as Postfix, Exim, Sendmail, or
Qmail, and preferably virus and spam filters).

Steve



From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Sun Feb 28 03:57:06 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 03:57:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <56D2B662.1010400@panix.com>

On 02/28/2016 03:47 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> If there's a performance
> problem, almost surely either your ISP is throttling you, or your MTA
> is misconfigured.  Again, we need to know more about how Mailman is
> installed, what you're trying to do, and what the other software
> involved is (at least an MTA such as Postfix, Exim, Sendmail, or
> Qmail, and preferably virus and spam filters).

When I ran it with majordomo their was no problem.  all mailing lists
went out instantaneously, or as fast as postfix could process it.   When
I send mail out with mutt, there is no problem.  When I send mail out
with dovecot there is no problem.  The only delay I ever have is with
mailman.  If your saying that mailman is putting out the files
efficiently, and postfix isn't picking them up, why does it then work
for every other mail source, and how do I fix this interface for mailman?

Ruben

-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Sun Feb 28 04:03:08 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 04:03:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] date
In-Reply-To: <56D2B76A.9020408@mrbrklyn.com>
References: <56D2B76A.9020408@mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <56D2B7CC.1080900@panix.com>

On 02/28/2016 04:01 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> Sun Feb 28 04:01:23 EST 2016
> [ruben at localhost ~]$


yeah - postfix works are about instantanious as it can get... so where
is mailman tripping up?


-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Sun Feb 28 10:29:23 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 10:29:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <56D31253.3060303@panix.com>

On 02/28/2016 03:47 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>  > How do I speed up mailman so that it works instantaneously and stops
>  > storing messages.
> 
> If you mean "Mailman is administratively holding messages until
> released by a moderator," you need to tell us more about your current
> configuration and needs.  There are several reasons why Mailman will
> hold messages -- what is the reason that Mailman gives for holding
> your messages?


No, I mean I send messages and they don't show up for a half hour even
in the postfix logs....


-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From luscheina at yahoo.de  Sun Feb 28 10:41:36 2016
From: luscheina at yahoo.de (Christian F Buser)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 16:41:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Switching to Mailman?
Message-ID: <20160228164136135065.0d3e83c1@yahoo.de>

Hi all

I did not so far use Mailman at all, but I am obviously forced to replace my current list server software :(

So far, I am using LetterRip (Version 4.07) on a Mac Mini with MacOS X 10.6. Earlier I also had used Macjordomo X 1.6a5 for some other lists. But both these softwares are programmed for the PowerPC processor and require "Rosetta" to use them on a more modern Intel-based Mac. And Rosetta is not available for operating systems after 10.6. So I am more or less forced to look for another solution. 

I woul dlike to use again a Mac Mini for this task, which will have no public IP-address and no DNS entry pointing to it for mail delivery. I found a solution to use "fetchmail" for getting inccoming messages from a standard POP3 mailbox.  

* Does anybody have experience on such a setup, especially regarding whether it works reliably? 

* What Operating System should I prefer for Mailman? The standard MacOS, or the Server version? I have nearly every MacOS ar my disposal starting from 10.4 or so (but I think 10.6 should be the minimum to use) of the standard version, as well as 10.6 Server, as well as the "Server Apps" version 2.2.1, 3.0.3, 3.2.1. and 4 (which, I think, belongs to MacOS X 10.10).

* Can "standard" Mailman reliably work on MacOS X / MacOS X Server? What should be preferred?

* Better use Mailman 2.1 or Mailman 3? 

* Does anybody here work with the Apple-version of Mailman? 

* Or, does anybody here have a proposal for a different List Server software than Mailman? 

I am presently running 2 mailing lists. Both are "announcement lists" where no discussion is possible. One has about 120 or so addresses, the other has about 500. The smaller one gets messages for distribution about twice a month, the bigger one once in about every 2-3 months. Both lists allow attachments.

Thank you, Christian 

-- 
Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland)      
Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 28 12:33:33 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 09:33:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D31253.3060303@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com>
Message-ID: <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>

On 02/28/2016 07:29 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> 
> No, I mean I send messages and they don't show up for a half hour even
> in the postfix logs....


Assuming Mailman 2.1.x, the usual cause of this is a backlogged 'out'
queue in Mailman. Look at Mailman's 'smtp' log, and look at how many
files are in Mailman's qfiles/out/ directory (/var/spool/mailman/out in
some packages).

If there are more than one or two files in the out/ queue, and if the
smtp log has successive entries of the form

Feb 28 08:55:43 2016 (30307) <mesage-id> smtp to list for nnn recips,
completed in t.ttt seconds

with each messages time stamp being t.ttt seconds later than the
preceding message, the out/ queue is backlogged. If that is the case,
Mailman isn't able to deliver fast enough to Postfix to keep up with
it's volume.

Even with full VERP, Mailman should be able to deliver tens of messages
per second to Postfix. If it is slower than that, there is a n issue
with delivery. Once we have more info on whether the queue is backlogged
and what the delivery rate is, we can say more.
You might find some of the hits from the google search

site:mail.python.org inurl:mailman backlogged out queue

of interest.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jimpop at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 12:50:30 2016
From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 12:50:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D2B662.1010400@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D2B662.1010400@panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAGfsgR3BnK9UTH0662n6YhRNSHQu5Nmde_-VxXNP_GAYNxsSyg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 3:57 AM, Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn at panix.com> wrote:
> When I ran it with majordomo their was no problem.

How was majordomo submitting email to postfix, and how is mailman now
submitting email to postix?

-Jim P.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Feb 28 13:19:18 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 03:19:18 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > Even with full VERP, Mailman should be able to deliver tens of messages
 > per second to Postfix. If it is slower than that, there is a n issue
 > with delivery. Once we have more info on whether the queue is backlogged
 > and what the delivery rate is, we can say more.
 > You might find some of the hits from the google search
 > 
 > site:mail.python.org inurl:mailman backlogged out queue
 > 
 > of interest.

If that doesn't make it obvious what you need to do, you might want to
tell us something about your configuration and use case.  What version
of Mailman?  Did you install as a package from a distribution or from
source?  If from a distribution, which one?

How big are the lists (number of subscribed addresses, maximum size if
there are several, and sizes can be order-of-magnitude like tens,
thousands, hundred million)?  How many such lists?  (As Mark says, you
still should be able to move up to 100,000 messages/hour with modest
hardware under normal conditions.)

Are your lists configured for personalization (eg, per-user
information such as subscription management URL in the footer)?

If Mailman >= 2.1.16, are your lists configured to deal with DMARC
issues (bounces of posts from AOL and Yahoo! addresses)?  Do you get a
lot of posts from those addresses?  (This can matter because DNS
transactions for DMARC can take a long time if for some reason your
path to those nameservers is slow.)

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 28 13:24:46 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 10:24:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Switching to Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <20160228164136135065.0d3e83c1@yahoo.de>
References: <20160228164136135065.0d3e83c1@yahoo.de>
Message-ID: <56D33B6E.2020106@msapiro.net>

On 02/28/2016 07:41 AM, Christian F Buser wrote:
> 
> I woul dlike to use again a Mac Mini for this task, which will have
> no public IP-address and no DNS entry pointing to it for mail
> delivery. I found a solution to use "fetchmail" for getting inccoming
> messages from a standard POP3 mailbox.
> 
> * Does anybody have experience on such a setup, especially regarding
> whether it works reliably?


There is a FAQ on this at <http://wiki.list.org/x/17891892>


> * What Operating System should I prefer for Mailman? The standard
> MacOS, or the Server version? I have nearly every MacOS ar my
> disposal starting from 10.4 or so (but I think 10.6 should be the
> minimum to use) of the standard version, as well as 10.6 Server, as
> well as the "Server Apps" version 2.2.1, 3.0.3, 3.2.1. and 4 (which,
> I think, belongs to MacOS X 10.10).
> 
> * Can "standard" Mailman reliably work on MacOS X / MacOS X Server?
> What should be preferred?


Go to <http://wiki.list.org/FrontPage> and search titles for "mac".

I have a source install of Mailman 2.1 on Mac OS X 10.11 (originally
installed on 10.10) in a fink environment with the fink versions of
Postfix and Apache. This works fine for my development purposes.

Others have installed Mailman 3 in a similar environment and I will be
doing that too at some point, but I haven't yet.


> * Better use Mailman 2.1 or Mailman 3?


Mailman 3 is the future and arguably a better choice for new lists.


> * Does anybody here work with the Apple-version of Mailman?


There are some posts in the list archives from people who do. Maybe
they'll speak up.


> * Or, does anybody here have a proposal for a different List Server
> software than Mailman?


On a mailman-users list?


> I am presently running 2 mailing lists. Both are "announcement lists"
> where no discussion is possible. One has about 120 or so addresses,
> the other has about 500. The smaller one gets messages for
> distribution about twice a month, the bigger one once in about every
> 2-3 months. Both lists allow attachments.


Have you considered a Raspberry Pi ;)

Seriously, this is pretty low volume. I think almost anything can handle it.

I think your most serious issue would be getting your mail accepted by
recipient ISPs without a 'non-generic' domain name and 'full circle' DNS
unless you are using your ISP as a smart host to relay your outbound
mail, but that would not be any different than with your current
solution, so I guess you have it covered.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Feb 28 15:05:31 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 05:05:31 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <22227.21259.676607.96819@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > Even with full VERP, Mailman should be able to deliver tens of messages
 > per second to Postfix. If it is slower than that, there is a n issue
 > with delivery. Once we have more info on whether the queue is backlogged
 > and what the delivery rate is, we can say more.
 > You might find some of the hits from the google search
 > 
 > site:mail.python.org inurl:mailman backlogged out queue
 > 
 > of interest.

@Ruben: If that doesn't make it obvious what you need to do, you might
want to tell us something about your configuration and use case.  What
version of Mailman?  Did you install as a package from a distribution
or from the source code?  If from a distribution, which one?

How big are the lists (number of subscribed addresses, maximum size
if there are several, and sizes can be order-of-magnitude like tens,
thousands, hundred million)?  How many such lists?  As Mark says, you
still should be able to move up to 100,000 messages/hour with modest
hardware under normal conditions.  You normally have to have a huge
backlog (thousands of individual messages in the outgoing queue) to
see significant slowdown -- a couple of hundred should clear within a
few minutes.  Note: one post typically translates to several outgoing
messages, up to the number of enabled subscribers for a list with full
personalization.

Are your lists configured for personalization (eg, per-user
information such as subscription management URL in the footer)?


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Sun Feb 28 15:57:34 2016
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 15:57:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re:  speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org>

On 2/28/2016 1:19 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
> If that doesn't make it obvious what you need to do, you might want to
> tell us something about your configuration and use case.  What version
> of Mailman?  Did you install as a package from a distribution or from
> source?  If from a distribution, which one?

Been meaning to ask...

Would it be difficult to add a command similar to postfix's postconf -n
that would dump the currently used config?

Sure would help with troubleshooting...

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Sun Feb 28 17:01:13 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:01:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>

On 02/28/2016 03:57 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 2/28/2016 1:19 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
>> If that doesn't make it obvious what you need to do, you might want to
>> tell us something about your configuration and use case.  What version
>> of Mailman?  Did you install as a package from a distribution or from
>> source?  If from a distribution, which one?
> 
> Been meaning to ask...
> 
> Would it be difficult to add a command similar to postfix's postconf -n
> that would dump the currently used config?
> 
When I read this, it just seems to me that you guys don't know how the 
software works.  I posted logs to postfix and what they are asking is 
frankly impossible to acquire.  This is a live system running a lot 
of email in /var/spool/mail and the delays show up when the system 
is under use.  I can't just restart it and expect the delays to 
show up and I can't get answers to basic questions such as

When the email comes to mailman, where does it go.  How does the MTA know 
to pick up the mail.  It seems to process mail in sweeps, rather than in 
real time when mail arrives.


2016-02-28T05:10:27.327566-05:00 www postfix/anvil[17919]: statistics: max connection rate 1/60s for (smtp:74.63.252.212)
+at Feb 28 05:04:45
2016-02-28T05:10:27.331943-05:00 www postfix/anvil[17919]: statistics: max connection count 1 for (smtp:74.63.252.212) at
+Feb 28 05:04:45
2016-02-28T05:10:27.336700-05:00 www postfix/anvil[17919]: statistics: max cache size 3 at Feb 28 05:08:54
2016-02-28T10:27:00.724625-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21374]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450
+4.1.2 <dyfet at gnutelephony.org>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<dyfet at gnutelephony.org> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:27:00.741823-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21374]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450
+4.1.2 <akbar at pionerd.org>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<akbar at pionerd.org> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:27:00.743988-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21374]: disconnect from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]
2016-02-28T10:27:00.760157-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21289]: connect from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]
2016-02-28T10:27:00.770460-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21289]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450
+4.1.2 <mbroggy at xooyooz.com>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<mbroggy at xooyooz.com> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:27:00.776887-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21289]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450
+4.1.2 <bputney at effective-tech.com>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<bputney at effective-tech.com> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:27:00.780934-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21289]: disconnect from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]
2016-02-28T10:27:00.797228-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21374]: connect from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]
2016-02-28T10:27:00.806301-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21374]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450
+4.1.2 <lai at council.nyc>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<lai at council.nyc> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:27:00.812423-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21374]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450
+4.1.2 <matt at ele.uri>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com> to=<matt at ele.uri>
+proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:27:00.819212-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21374]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450
+4.1.2 <ksnyder at stclair.k12>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<ksnyder at stclair.k12> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
+proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:27:00.819212-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21374]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450
+4.1.2 <ksnyder at stclair.k12>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<ksnyder at stclair.k12> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:27:00.825831-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21374]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450
+4.1.2 <sbrown at emoglen.law>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<sbrown at emoglen.law> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:27:00.832733-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21374]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450
+4.1.2 <mbmiller at taxa.epi>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<mbmiller at taxa.epi> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:27:00.841576-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21374]: disconnect from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]
2016-02-28T10:27:00.952845-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21289]: connect from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]
2016-02-28T10:27:00.961612-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21289]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450
+4.1.2 <zbrown at tumblerings.org>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<zbrown at tumblerings.org> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:27:04.202793-05:00 www postfix/postfix-script[21494]: error: unknown command: 'restart'
2016-02-28T10:27:04.224388-05:00 www postfix/postfix-script[21495]: fatal: usage: postfix start (or stop, reload, abort,
+flush, check, status, set-permissions, upgrade-configuration)
2016-02-28T10:27:09.186615-05:00 www postfix/postfix-script[21502]: stopping the Postfix mail system
2016-02-28T10:27:09.215180-05:00 www postfix/master[17632]: terminating on signal 15
2016-02-28T10:27:10.751785-05:00 www postfix/postfix-script[21511]: fatal: the Postfix mail system is not running
2016-02-28T10:27:13.958972-05:00 www postfix/postfix-script[21582]: starting the Postfix mail system
2016-02-28T10:27:14.118518-05:00 www postfix/master[21584]: daemon started -- version 2.11.3, configuration /etc/postfix
2016-02-28T10:27:42.539526-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: connect from server1.sourceware.org[209.132.180.131]
2016-02-28T10:27:44.590657-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: 8FFA4163D93: client=server1.sourceware.org[209.132.180.131]
2016-02-28T10:27:44.752180-05:00 www postfix/cleanup[21592]: 8FFA4163D93:
+message-id=<bug-70000-4 at http.gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/>
2016-02-28T10:27:44.900335-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: 8FFA4163D93:
+from=<gcc-bugs-return-516780-ruben=mrbrklyn.com at gcc.gnu.org>, size=6218, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
2016-02-28T10:27:44.989139-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: disconnect from server1.sourceware.org[209.132.180.131]
2016-02-28T10:27:45.015442-05:00 www postfix/local[21594]: 8FFA4163D93: to=<ruben at mrbrklyn.com>, relay=local, delay=2.2,
+delays=2.1/0.02/0/0.09, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: exec /usr/bin/procmail)
2016-02-28T10:27:45.043197-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: 8FFA4163D93: removed
2016-02-28T10:27:45.015442-05:00 www postfix/local[21594]: 8FFA4163D93: to=<ruben at mrbrklyn.com>, relay=local, delay=2.2,
+delays=2.1/0.02/0/0.09, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: exec /usr/bin/procmail)
2016-02-28T10:27:45.043197-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: 8FFA4163D93: removed
2016-02-28T10:27:45.638448-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21593]: warning: hostname 192-200-191-190.cab.prima.net.ar does not
+resolve to address 190.191.200.192: Name or service not known
2016-02-28T10:27:45.643817-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21593]: connect from unknown[190.191.200.192]
2016-02-28T10:27:45.849580-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: connect from stat13.mrbrklyn.com[10.0.0.19]
2016-02-28T10:27:46.234870-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: 3905C163D93: client=stat13.mrbrklyn.com[10.0.0.19]
2016-02-28T10:27:46.246640-05:00 www postfix/cleanup[21592]: 3905C163D93: message-id=<56D311F1.8080002 at mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:27:46.321720-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: 3905C163D93: from=<ruben at mrbrklyn.com>, size=7450, nrcpt=1
+(queue active)
2016-02-28T10:27:46.326826-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: disconnect from stat13.mrbrklyn.com[10.0.0.19]
2016-02-28T10:27:46.619042-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21593]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[190.191.200.192]: 554 5.7.1
+Service unavailable; Client host [190.191.200.192] blocked using zen.spamhaus.org;
+https://www.spamhaus.org/query/ip/190.191.200.192; from=<ruben at mrbrklyn.com> to=<ruben at mrbrklyn.com> proto=ESMTP
+helo=<192-200-191-190.cab.prima.net.ar>
2016-02-28T10:27:46.813382-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21593]: lost connection after DATA from unknown[190.191.200.192]
2016-02-28T10:27:46.816518-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21593]: disconnect from unknown[190.191.200.192]
2016-02-28T10:27:46.850328-05:00 www postfix/local[21594]: 3905C163D93: to=<hangout at nylxs.com>, relay=local, delay=0.97,
+delays=0.43/0/0/0.53, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post hangout)
2016-02-28T10:27:46.854108-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: 3905C163D93: removed
2016-02-28T10:27:48.472164-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: connect from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]
2016-02-28T10:27:48.506854-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: 7B828163D93: client=www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]
2016-02-28T10:27:48.664206-05:00 www postfix/cleanup[21592]: 7B828163D93: message-id=<56D311F1.8080002 at mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:27:48.733722-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: 7B828163D93: from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, size=8482,
+nrcpt=6 (queue active)
2016-02-28T10:27:48.847412-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: CE724163D94: client=www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]
2016-02-28T10:27:49.323417-05:00 www postfix/smtp[21597]: 7B828163D93: to=<lewisdj at bc.edu>,
+relay=purgatory.bc.edu[136.167.2.254]:25, delay=0.84, delays=0.25/0.06/0.16/0.37, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0
+u1SFRmUk005855 Message accepted for delivery)
2016-02-28T10:27:49.359194-05:00 www postfix/smtp[21601]: 7B828163D93: to=<as9795 at nyu.edu>,
+relay=MX.NYU.EDU[128.122.119.206]:25, delay=0.88, delays=0.25/0.31/0.25/0.07, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 ok:  Message
+816890700 accepted)
2016-02-28T10:27:49.678241-05:00 www postfix/smtp[21600]: 7B828163D93: to=<ruben.safir at my.liu.edu>,
+relay=aspmx.l.google.com[74.125.22.26]:25, delay=1.2, delays=0.25/0.23/0.28/0.43, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 OK
+1456673269 q16si22275314qhb.47 - gsmtp)
2016-02-28T10:27:49.680142-05:00 www postfix/smtp[21600]: 7B828163D93: to=<trevor.ashley at my.liu.edu>,
2016-02-28T10:27:49.680142-05:00 www postfix/smtp[21600]: 7B828163D93: to=<trevor.ashley at my.liu.edu>,
+relay=aspmx.l.google.com[74.125.22.26]:25, delay=1.2, delays=0.25/0.23/0.28/0.43, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 OK
+1456673269 q16si22275314qhb.47 - gsmtp)
2016-02-28T10:27:51.556901-05:00 www postfix/smtp[21599]: 7B828163D93: to=<Chris.Knadle at coredump.us>,
+relay=mail.ofobscurity.com[64.85.165.57]:25, delay=3.1, delays=0.25/0.18/0.15/2.5, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 OK
+id=1aa3G9-00084T-1q)
2016-02-28T10:27:53.965931-05:00 www dovecot: pop3-login: Login: user=<ruben>, method=PLAIN, rip=10.0.0.19,
+lip=96.57.23.82, mpid=21608, TLS, session=<apAGLdYsrAAKAAAT>
2016-02-28T10:27:54.535576-05:00 www postfix/smtp[21598]: 7B828163D93: to=<mjc15 at columbia.edu>,
+relay=mail-in.cc.columbia.edu[128.59.105.70]:25, delay=6.1, delays=0.25/0.11/5.2/0.52, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0
+u1SFRmts017135 Message accepted for delivery)
2016-02-28T10:27:54.539922-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: 7B828163D93: removed
2016-02-28T10:27:54.911037-05:00 www dovecot: pop3(ruben): Disconnected: Logged out top=0/0, retr=0/0, del=0/13122,
+size=399740110
2016-02-28T10:37:42.821744-05:00 www postfix/anvil[21590]: statistics: max connection rate 1/60s for
+(smtp:209.132.180.131) at Feb 28 10:27:42
2016-02-28T10:37:42.823643-05:00 www postfix/anvil[21590]: statistics: max connection count 1 for (smtp:209.132.180.131)
+at Feb 28 10:27:42

which logs and what time stamps?

2016-02-28T09:04:03.801283-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[20212]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[162.144.221.253]: 554 5.7.1
+Service unavailable; Client host [162.144.221.253] blocked using zen.spamhaus.org;
+https://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/query/SBLCSS; from=<KingstonHicks at bsbw.launchyourfirstproduct.com> to=<hangout at nylxs.com>
+proto=ESMTP helo=<bsbw.launchyourfirstproduct.com>
2016-02-28T09:08:31.158185-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[20212]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
+58lccnji.resultiding.top[207.232.86.161]: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [207.232.86.161] blocked using
+zen.spamhaus.org; https://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/query/SBLCSS; from=<ADHDSymptoms at resultiding.top> to=<hangout at nylxs.com>
+proto=ESMTP helo=<003d8711.resultiding.top>
2016-02-28T09:10:39.675524-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[20212]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[157.122.148.171]: 554 5.7.1
+Service unavailable; Client host [157.122.148.171] blocked using dnsbl.sorbs.net; Exploitable Server See:
+http://www.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?157.122.148.171; from=<nl at erfc.com> to=<hangout at mrbrklyn.com> proto=ESMTP
http://www.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?157.122.148.171; from=<nl at erfc.com> to=<hangout at mrbrklyn.com> proto=ESMTP
+helo=<erfc.com>
2016-02-28T09:11:52.606282-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[20292]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
+ik1-332-26033.vs.sakura.ne.jp[153.126.192.37]: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [153.126.192.37] blocked using
+bl.spamcop.net; Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?153.126.192.37; from=<errv1248060_11 at twgsdc.com>
+to=<hangout at nylxs.com> proto=SMTP helo=<www.twgsdc.com>
2016-02-28T09:27:31.010115-05:00 www postfix/local[20826]: 48C51163D92: to=<hangout at nylxs.com>, relay=local, delay=1.2,
+delays=0.62/0/0/0.54, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post hangout)
2016-02-28T09:57:34.617882-05:00 www postfix/local[21127]: 9820C163D92: to=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, relay=local,
+delay=1, delays=0.08/0.02/0/0.91, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces
+hangout)
2016-02-28T10:04:08.069910-05:00 www postfix/local[21219]: 6F2E5163D92: to=<hangout at nylxs.com>, relay=local, delay=0.63,
+delays=0.07/0/0/0.55, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post hangout)
2016-02-28T10:07:34.833717-05:00 www postfix/local[21247]: 4325E163D92: to=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, relay=local,
+delay=0.56, delays=0.04/0/0/0.51, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces
+hangout)
2016-02-28T10:08:37.580486-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[20292]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from e4o5a.woulded.top[207.232.86.162]:
+554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [207.232.86.162] blocked using zen.spamhaus.org;
+https://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/query/SBLCSS; from=<CatCareCoupons at woulded.top>to=<hangout at nylxs.com> proto=ESMTP
+helo=<003d8712.woulded.top>
2016-02-28T10:21:44.248435-05:00 www postfix/local[21430]: 71C28163D93: to=<hangout at nylxs.com>, relay=local, delay=1.4,
+delays=0.9/0/0/0.52, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post hangout)
2016-02-28T10:22:06.981914-05:00 www postfix/local[21430]: 66BBB163D93: to=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, relay=local,
+delay=0.56, delays=0.05/0/0/0.51, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces
+hangout)
2016-02-28T10:27:46.850328-05:00 www postfix/local[21594]: 3905C163D93: to=<hangout at nylxs.com>, relay=local, delay=0.97,
+delays=0.43/0/0/0.53, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post hangout)
2016-02-28T10:27:48.733722-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: 7B828163D93: from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, size=8482,
+nrcpt=6 (queue active)
2016-02-28T10:28:58.157522-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: CE724163D94: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]:
+450 4.1.2 <dyfet at gnutelephony.org>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<dyfet at gnutelephony.org> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>


+450 4.1.2 <dyfet at gnutelephony.org>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<dyfet at gnutelephony.org> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:28:58.171785-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: CE724163D94: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]:
+450 4.1.2 <akbar at pionerd.org>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<akbar at pionerd.org> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:29:04.377587-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: CE724163D94: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]:
+450 4.1.2 <zbrown at tumblerings.org>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<zbrown at tumblerings.org> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:29:04.492076-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: CE724163D94: from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, size=8482,
+nrcpt=10 (queue active)
2016-02-28T10:29:05.410378-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: 8DF63163D93: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]:
+450 4.1.2 <bputney at effective-tech.com>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<bputney at effective-tech.com> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:29:05.688669-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: 8DF63163D93: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]:
+450 4.1.2 <mbroggy at xooyooz.com>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<mbroggy at xooyooz.com> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:29:20.567002-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: 8DF63163D93: from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, size=8482,
+nrcpt=42 (queue active)
2016-02-28T10:29:20.718214-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450
+4.1.2 <ksnyder at stclair.k12>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<ksnyder at stclair.k12> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:29:20.841893-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: C008D163D95: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]:
+450 4.1.2 <mbmiller at taxa.epi>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<mbmiller at taxa.epi> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:29:20.874342-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: C008D163D95: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]:
+450 4.1.2 <lai at council.nyc>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<lai at council.nyc> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:29:20.919592-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: C008D163D95: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]:
+450 4.1.2 <sbrown at emoglen.law>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<sbrown at emoglen.law> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:29:20.928361-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21588]: C008D163D95: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]:
+450 4.1.2 <matt at ele.uri>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<matt at ele.uri> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:29:21.012138-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: C008D163D95: from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, size=8513,
+nrcpt=1 (queue active)
+450 4.1.2 <matt at ele.uri>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
+to=<matt at ele.uri> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>
2016-02-28T10:29:21.012138-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: C008D163D95: from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, size=8513,
+nrcpt=1 (queue active)
2016-02-28T10:32:14.983975-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: 0D0B31617B4: from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, size=2577,
+nrcpt=41 (queue active)


That is seperate greps of TO and FROM'S to the maillist.  
Obviously it is very difficult to know what is happening by looking at the logs.  
Majordomo sends email straight to the MTA though aliases and a pipe.
Mailman has a dameon running.  It is obviously very different.  I think 
rejected email is choking whatever process is delivering mail..but that is a guess.

Reuvain


> Sure would help with troubleshooting...
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mrbrklyn%40panix.com
> 


-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com 

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Sun Feb 28 17:12:06 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:12:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
Message-ID: <56D370B6.4010208@panix.com>

www:~ # /usr/lib/mailman/bin/version
Using Mailman version: 2.1.17

 www:~ # postconf -d | grep mail_version
mail_version = 2.11.3
milter_macro_v = $mail_name $mail_version



-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Sun Feb 28 17:26:26 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:26:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56D37412.7080402@panix.com>

On 02/28/2016 12:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 02/28/2016 07:29 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
>>
>> No, I mean I send messages and they don't show up for a half hour even
>> in the postfix logs....
> 
> 
> Assuming Mailman 2.1.x, the usual cause of this is a backlogged 'out'
> queue in Mailman. Look at Mailman's 'smtp' log, and look at how many
> files are in Mailman's qfiles/out/ directory (/var/spool/mailman/out in
> some packages).
> 
> If there are more than one or two files in the out/ queue, and if the
> smtp log has successive entries of the form

there are 38 files in there at preseent
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  4441 Feb 28 16:57 1456690111.419805+dd7dabe9420b90aad8e72ee0607a4eb015fb9976.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 21731 Feb 28 16:33 1456695234.857981+952d2cfb1cfa9559943dc335ca8eced7d26aaa6f.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 30549 Feb 28 16:33 1456695235.935237+55c1c60ede5771fa2960a0460011f82266dbcb8b.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 26009 Feb 28 16:33 1456695236.069412+c268ffc9dfded5c93d3b3048831f058e184dd576.pck
www:/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out # ls -al |wc
     38     335    4028



> 
> Feb 28 08:55:43 2016 (30307) <mesage-id> smtp to list for nnn recips,
> completed in t.ttt seconds

this is the postfix mail log?


like this?

2016-02-28T17:17:14.802128-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: 0F2FB1616D8: from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, size=6960, nrcpt=41 (queue active)
2016-02-28T17:17:14.857414-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: 7C884163D99: from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, size=4936, nrcpt=42 (queue active)
2016-02-28T17:17:14.876153-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: 7E61E1616C8: from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, size=5354, nrcpt=40 (queue active)
2016-02-28T17:17:14.893215-05:00 www postfix/qmgr[21586]: 15E131617B9: from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, size=3740, nrcpt=41 (queue active)

and this
2016-02-28T17:17:43.841701-05:00 www postfix/local[667]: 47291163DA1: to=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, relay=local, delay=0.55, delays=0.03/0/0/0.51, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces hangout)

18260985136, Hostname=BLUPR09MB0181.namprd09.prod.outlook.com] 12753 bytes in 0.183, 67.784 KB/sec Queued mail for delivery)
2016-02-28T15:51:56.553321-05:00 www postfix/local[25454]: E763B163D9C: to=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, relay=local, delay=0.61, delays=0.1/0/0/0.51, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces hangout)
2016-02-28T15:52:24.710239-05:00 www postfix/local[25458]: 18326163D9A: to=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, relay=local, delay=0.61, delays=0.09/0/0/0.51, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces hangout)
2016-02-28T16:06:18.504031-05:00 www postfix/local[25619]: A874B163DA1: to=<hangout at nylxs.com>, relay=local, delay=1.4, delays=0.88/0.02/0/0.52, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post hangout)
2016-02-28T16:33:54.960832-05:00 www postfix/local[26033]: 0A854163DA2: to=<hangout at nylxs.com>, relay=local, delay=1, delays=0.17/0.05/0/0.79, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post hangout)
2016-02-28T17:12:16.334190-05:00 www postfix/local[561]: BA2A3163DA2: to=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, relay=local, delay=1.6, delays=0.19/0.04/0/1.4, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces hangout)
2016-02-28T17:12:16.342511-05:00 www postfix/local[513]: ADAD9163DA1: to=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, relay=local, delay=1.6, delays=0.05/0.01/0/1.6, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces hangout)
2016-02-28T17:17:43.841701-05:00 www postfix/local[667]: 47291163DA1: to=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>, relay=local, delay=0.55, delays=0.03/0/0/0.51, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces hangout)


> 
> with each messages time stamp being t.ttt seconds later than the
> preceding message, the out/ queue is backlogged. If that is the case,
> Mailman isn't able to deliver fast enough to Postfix to keep up with
> it's volume.
> 
> Even with full VERP, Mailman should be able to deliver tens of messages
> per second to Postfix. If it is slower than that, there is a n issue
> with delivery. Once we have more info on whether the queue is backlogged
> and what the delivery rate is, we can say more.
> You might find some of the hits from the google search
> 
> site:mail.python.org inurl:mailman backlogged out queue
> 
> of interest.
> 
> 


-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com 

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 28 17:46:20 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 14:46:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D37412.7080402@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <56D37412.7080402@panix.com>
Message-ID: <56D378BC.4040901@msapiro.net>

On 02/28/2016 02:26 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> On 02/28/2016 12:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> If there are more than one or two files in the out/ queue, and if the
>> smtp log has successive entries of the form
> 
> there are 38 files in there at preseent
> -rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  4441 Feb 28 16:57 1456690111.419805+dd7dabe9420b90aad8e72ee0607a4eb015fb9976.pck
> -rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 21731 Feb 28 16:33 1456695234.857981+952d2cfb1cfa9559943dc335ca8eced7d26aaa6f.pck
> -rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 30549 Feb 28 16:33 1456695235.935237+55c1c60ede5771fa2960a0460011f82266dbcb8b.pck
> -rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 26009 Feb 28 16:33 1456695236.069412+c268ffc9dfded5c93d3b3048831f058e184dd576.pck
> www:/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out # ls -al |wc
>      38     335    4028


This indicates a serious backlog.


>>
>> Feb 28 08:55:43 2016 (30307) <mesage-id> smtp to list for nnn recips,
>> completed in t.ttt seconds
> 
> this is the postfix mail log?


No. Look at Mailman's smtp log. This may be /var/lib/mailman/logs/smtp
or /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or /var/log/mailman/smtp or somewhere
else depending on how mailman was installed


>> with each messages time stamp being t.ttt seconds later than the
>> preceding message, the out/ queue is backlogged. If that is the case,
>> Mailman isn't able to deliver fast enough to Postfix to keep up with
>> it's volume.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Sun Feb 28 17:54:00 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:54:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D378BC.4040901@msapiro.net>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <56D37412.7080402@panix.com> <56D378BC.4040901@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56D37A88.3080107@panix.com>

On 02/28/2016 05:46 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 02/28/2016 02:26 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
>> On 02/28/2016 12:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>
>>> If there are more than one or two files in the out/ queue, and if the
>>> smtp log has successive entries of the form
>>
>> there are 38 files in there at preseent
>> -rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  4441 Feb 28 16:57 1456690111.419805+dd7dabe9420b90aad8e72ee0607a4eb015fb9976.pck
>> -rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 21731 Feb 28 16:33 1456695234.857981+952d2cfb1cfa9559943dc335ca8eced7d26aaa6f.pck
>> -rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 30549 Feb 28 16:33 1456695235.935237+55c1c60ede5771fa2960a0460011f82266dbcb8b.pck
>> -rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 26009 Feb 28 16:33 1456695236.069412+c268ffc9dfded5c93d3b3048831f058e184dd576.pck
>> www:/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out # ls -al |wc
>>      38     335    4028
> 
> 
> This indicates a serious backlog.
> 
> 
>>>
>>> Feb 28 08:55:43 2016 (30307) <mesage-id> smtp to list for nnn recips,
>>> completed in t.ttt seconds
>>
>> this is the postfix mail log?
> 
> 
> No. Look at Mailman's smtp log. This may be /var/lib/mailman/logs/smtp
> or /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or /var/log/mailman/smtp or somewhere
> else depending on how mailman was installed
> 
> 
>>> with each messages time stamp being t.ttt seconds later than the
>>> preceding message, the out/ queue is backlogged. If that is the case,
>>> Mailman isn't able to deliver fast enough to Postfix to keep up with
>>> it's volume.
> 


Evidently... So what might be a fix?  Because whatever it is it doesn't affect other mail. :(

Feb 28 17:17:18 2016 (29233) <CAJS-itcfOi9J2dgX0U_+NR=RkywLeBgvgoE2z67TVL=oF71wUg at mail.gmail.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.241 seconds
Feb 28 17:18:27 2016 (29233) <56D30C67.7070300 at mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.239 seconds
Feb 28 17:19:37 2016 (29233) <56D311F1.8080002 at mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.240 seconds
Feb 28 17:20:46 2016 (29233) <56D336AA.7060709 at crossroadstech.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.247 seconds
Feb 28 17:21:55 2016 (29233) <56D2F8D0.8080208 at verizon.net> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.229 seconds
Feb 28 17:23:27 2016 (29233) <20160222074941.B47C9C193 at s8.hostlocal.com> smtp to hangout for 69 recips, completed in 91.821 seconds
Feb 28 17:24:37 2016 (29233) <56CD2795.4020601 at mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.305 seconds
Feb 28 17:25:46 2016 (29233) <56CE7EF5.6020208 at mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.235 seconds
Feb 28 17:26:56 2016 (29233) <50797049-1456397806-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1607713858- at b1.c1.bise6.blackberry> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.238 seconds
Feb 28 17:28:05 2016 (29233) <20160226060443.GA18326 at www.mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.249 seconds
Feb 28 17:29:14 2016 (29233) <20160226073323.GD20244 at linuxmafia.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.227 seconds
Feb 28 17:30:24 2016 (29233) <E1aZLtt-00007s-Mj at crmserver1p.fsf.org> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.236 seconds
Feb 28 17:31:33 2016 (29233) <20160227045303.GH20244 at linuxmafia.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.364 seconds
Feb 28 17:32:42 2016 (29233) <20160227080928.GH12323 at linuxmafia.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.198 seconds
Feb 28 17:33:52 2016 (29233) <56D28F54.1050005 at mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.465 seconds
Feb 28 17:35:02 2016 (29233) <20160228063512.GB14573 at www.mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.229 seconds
Feb 28 17:36:11 2016 (29233) <CAAy8BASGqf4qkG61AbO_G-gj5QGNvzUCntSURRYMrvRkh0C2kA at mail.gmail.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.301 seconds
Feb 28 17:37:20 2016 (29233) <CADJGPb-C-HMRGg-b5onMzywZaWdw=TF+iNBuAG6gXD7TVYMdpg at mail.gmail.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.282 seconds
Feb 28 17:38:30 2016 (29233) <CADJGPb-C-HMRGg-b5onMzywZaWdw=TF+iNBuAG6gXD7TVYMdpg at mail.gmail.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.288 seconds
Feb 28 17:39:39 2016 (29233) <CADJGPb-BUXSV=wuTyiy8oFgTuteH_Kpp4XFQKxoQv3zbKy4bVg at mail.gmail.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.430 seconds
Feb 28 17:40:49 2016 (29233) <329326E7-8ACC-4757-888E-098E498008C9 at nyu.edu> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.247 seconds
Feb 28 17:41:58 2016 (29233) <20160228064203.GA14806 at www.mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.225 seconds
Feb 28 17:43:07 2016 (29233) <20160228071130.GA15677 at www.mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.242 seconds
Feb 28 17:44:17 2016 (29233) <56D2A094.7090306 at mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.230 seconds
Feb 28 17:45:26 2016 (29233) <56D2A251.5070208 at my.liu.edu> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.223 seconds
Feb 28 17:46:36 2016 (29233) <56D2A458.8020400 at mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.499 seconds
Feb 28 17:47:45 2016 (29233) <20160228075600.GA16210 at www.mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.254 seconds
Feb 28 17:48:54 2016 (29233) <56D2B699.4000204 at mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.241 seconds
Feb 28 17:50:04 2016 (29233) <56D2BA1C.9010002 at mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.190 seconds


-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com 

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 28 17:55:34 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 14:55:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <56D37AE6.4060108@msapiro.net>

On 02/28/2016 12:57 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> 
> Would it be difficult to add a command similar to postfix's postconf -n
> that would dump the currently used config?


Mailman's

bin/config_list -o - listname | grep -v '^#'

will dump the current config. If you really want postconf -n like output
that shows only settings different from the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py
settings, there's nothing currently available that I'm aware of, but
I'll think about a script.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Sun Feb 28 18:04:56 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 18:04:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D37AE6.4060108@msapiro.net>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D37AE6.4060108@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56D37D18.4090605@panix.com>

On 02/28/2016 05:55 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> bin/config_list -o - listname | grep -v '^#'

real_name = 'hangout'

owner = ['me at here.com']

moderator = []

description = 'NYLXS Discussions List'

info = ''

subject_prefix = '[Hangout-NYLXS] '

anonymous_list = False

first_strip_reply_to = False

reply_goes_to_list = 1

reply_to_address = ''

umbrella_list = False

umbrella_member_suffix = '-owner'

send_reminders = 0

welcome_msg = """Welcome to the NYLXS Mailing List
See http://www.nylxs.com
Free Linux"""

send_welcome_msg = True

goodbye_msg = ''

send_goodbye_msg = True

admin_immed_notify = 0

admin_notify_mchanges = 1

respond_to_post_requests = 0

emergency = 0

-- 
new_member_options = 256

administrivia = True

max_message_size = 0

admin_member_chunksize = 300

host_name = 'nylxs.com'

include_rfc2369_headers = 1

include_list_post_header = 1

include_sender_header = 1

max_days_to_hold = 1


preferred_language = 'en'

available_languages = ['en']

encode_ascii_prefixes = 0


nondigestable = True

msg_header = ''

msg_footer = """_______________________________________________
%(real_name)s mailing list
%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
http://www.nylxs.com/"""

scrub_nondigest = False

regular_exclude_lists = []

regular_exclude_ignore = True

regular_include_lists = []

digestable = True

digest_is_default = False

mime_is_default_digest = False

digest_size_threshhold = 30

digest_send_periodic = True

digest_header = ''

digest_footer = """_______________________________________________
%(real_name)s mailing list
%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s"""

digest_volume_frequency = 1


advertised = 1

subscribe_policy = 1

unsubscribe_policy = 0

ban_list = []

private_roster = 1

obscure_addresses = 1


default_member_moderation = 0

member_moderation_action = 0

member_moderation_notice = ''

accept_these_nonmembers = ['someone at world.org']

hold_these_nonmembers = []

reject_these_nonmembers = []
discard_these_nonmembers = []

generic_nonmember_action = 3

forward_auto_discards = 0

nonmember_rejection_notice = ''


require_explicit_destination = 1

acceptable_aliases = ''

max_num_recipients = 3


header_filter_rules = []

bounce_matching_headers = """
to: friend at public.com
message-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu
from: list at listme.com
from: .*@uplinkpro.com"""


bounce_processing = 1

bounce_score_threshold = 5.0

bounce_info_stale_after = 7

bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 2

bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 3

bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner = 0

bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = True

bounce_notify_owner_on_removal = True


archive = 1

archive_private = 0

archive_volume_frequency = 1


nntp_host = ''

linked_newsgroup = ''

gateway_to_news = 0

gateway_to_mail = 0

news_moderation = 0

news_prefix_subject_too = 1


autorespond_postings = 0

autoresponse_postings_text = ''

autorespond_admin = 0

autoresponse_admin_text = ''

autorespond_requests = 0

autoresponse_request_text = ''

autoresponse_graceperiod = 90


filter_content = 1

filter_mime_types = ''

pass_mime_types = ''

filter_filename_extensions = """exe
bat
cmd
com
pif
scr
vbs
cpl"""

pass_filename_extensions = ''

collapse_alternatives = 0

convert_html_to_plaintext = True

filter_action = 0


topics_enabled = 0

topics_bodylines_limit = 5

topics = []



So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 28 18:16:47 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 15:16:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D37A88.3080107@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <56D37412.7080402@panix.com> <56D378BC.4040901@msapiro.net>
 <56D37A88.3080107@panix.com>
Message-ID: <56D37FDF.4030201@msapiro.net>

On 02/28/2016 02:54 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> 
> Evidently... So what might be a fix?  Because whatever it is it doesn't affect other mail. :(
> 
> Feb 28 17:17:18 2016 (29233) <CAJS-itcfOi9J2dgX0U_+NR=RkywLeBgvgoE2z67TVL=oF71wUg at mail.gmail.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.241 seconds
> Feb 28 17:18:27 2016 (29233) <56D30C67.7070300 at mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.239 seconds
> Feb 28 17:19:37 2016 (29233) <56D311F1.8080002 at mrbrklyn.com> smtp to hangout for 10 recips, completed in 69.240 seconds
...


So it takes Mailman over a minute to deliver to Postfix for 10
recipients. No matter what Mailman is doing, this is way too long by
over a factor of 100.

Various things could be at the root of this, e.g.
reject_unknown_recipient_domain in smtpd_recipient_restrictions
particularly in combination with slow DNS lookups.

To say more, we'd need to see the output from 'postconf -n' and the
contents of mm_cfg.py, but this is really a Postfix tuning issue, soo
see <http://www.postfix.org/TUNING_README.html> and other Postfix
resources as well. There is also information in our wiki, but a lot of
the Mailman specific stuff is out of date, but go to
<http://wiki.list.org/FrontPage> and search titles for "performance".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 28 18:18:11 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 15:18:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D37D18.4090605@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D37AE6.4060108@msapiro.net>
 <56D37D18.4090605@panix.com>
Message-ID: <56D38033.4040401@msapiro.net>

On 02/28/2016 03:04 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> On 02/28/2016 05:55 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> bin/config_list -o - listname | grep -v '^#'


Ruben,

This sub-thread is unrelated to your questions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 28 18:20:57 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 15:20:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.21 release -
 IMPORTANT update
Message-ID: <56D380D9.1070808@msapiro.net>

This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
--j6S4w6u3IBpq2Lhw4NRnht7WOGMvBbU6R
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
 boundary="------------060207060504090803080503"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------060207060504090803080503
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am pleased to announce the second release candidate for Mailman
2.1.21. This fixes a serious bug in the first release candidate in that
the few new list attributes weren't initialized for new lists. 2.1.21rc1
would work with lists migrated from older releases but lists created
under that release were unusable.

If you installed 2.1.21rc1, you should upgrade to 2.1.21rc2, and if you
created new lists under 2.1.21rc1, see the attached fix_list procedure.

Python 2.4 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.7 is strongly recommend=
ed.

This release includes a few new features and several bug fixes. See the
attached README for details.

Associated with these changes are six new and two modified strings in
the i18n message catalogs. I strongly encourage anyone with an interest
in translations of Mailman to get this release and help with updating
the translations for the final 2.1.21 release which is planned for the
end of February.

This candidate is expected to be quite stable. All the changes since
2.1.20 have been installed in the python.org Mailman as they were
developed and are running without known issues. The only reason why this
is a candidate and not a final release is to allow time for i18n updates
to be in the final.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, please see our web site at one of:

http://www.list.org
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
http://mailman.sourceforge.net/
http://mirror.list.org/

Mailman 2.1.21rc2 can be downloaded from

https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/
http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/

--=20
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


--------------060207060504090803080503
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8;
 name="README"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="README"

2.1.21rc2 (05-Feb-2016)

  New Features

    - There is a new dmarc_none_moderation_action list setting and a
      DEFAULT_DMARC_NONE_MODERATION_ACTION mm_cfg.py setting to optionall=
y
      apply Munge From or Wrap Message actions to posts From: domains tha=
t
      publish DMARC p=3Dnone.  The intent is to eliminate failure reports=
 to
      the domain owner for messages that would be munged or wrapped if th=
e
      domain published a stronger DMARC policy.  See the descriptions in
      Defaults.py, the web UI and the bug report for more.  (LP: #1539384=
)

    - Thanks to Jim Popovitch there is now a feature to automatically tur=
n
      on moderation for a malicious list member who attempts to flood a l=
ist
      with spam.  See the details for the Privacy options ... -> Sender
      filters -> member_verbosity_threshold and member_verbosity_interval=

      settings in the web admin UI and the documentation in Defaults.py f=
or
      the DEFAULT_MEMBER_VERBOSITY_* and VERBOSE_CLEAN_LIMIT settings for=

      information.

    - bin/list_members now has options to display all moderated or all
      non-moderated members.

    - There is now a mm_cfg.py setting GLOBAL_BAN_LIST which is like the
      individual list's ban_list but applies globally to all subscribe
      requests.  See the description in Defaults.py for more details.

  i18n

    - Several Galician templates that were improperly encoded as iso-8859=
-1
      have been fixed.  (LP: #1532504)

    - The German translation has been updated by Mirian Margiani.

    - The Brazilian Portugese translation has been updated by Emerson Rib=
eiro
      de Mello.

  Bug fixes and other patches

    - Modified contrib/mmdsr to report held and banned subscriptions and =
DMARC
      lookups in their own categories.

    - Fixed a bug that could create a garbled From: header with certain D=
MARC
      mitigation actions.  (LP: #1536816)

    - Treat a poster's address which matches an equivalent_domains addres=
s as
      a list member for the regular_exclude_ignore check.  (LP: #1526550)=


    - Fixed an issue that sometimes left no white space following
      subject_prefix.  (LP: #1525954)

    - Vette log entries for banned subscriptions now include the source o=
f
      the request if available.  (LP: #1525733)

    - Submitting the user options form for a user who was asynchronously
      unsubscribed would throw an uncaught NotAMemberError.  (LP: #152327=
3)

    - It was possible under some circumstances for a message to be shunte=
d
      after a handler rejected or discarded it, and the handler would be
      skipped upon unshunting and the message accepted.  (LP: #1519062)

    - Posts gated to usenet will no longer have other than the target gro=
up
      in the Newsgroups: header.  (LP: #1512866)

    - Invalid regexps in *_these_nonmembers, subscribe_auto_approval and
      ban_list are now logged.  (LP: #1507241)

    - Refactored the GetPattern list method to simplify extending @listna=
me
      syntax to new attributes in the future.  Changed Moderate.py to use=
 the
      GetPattern method to process the *_these_nonmembers lists.

    - Changed CookHeaders to default to using space rather than tab as
      continuation_ws when folding headers.  (LP: #1505878)

    - Fixed the 'pidfile' path in the sample init.d script.  (LP: # 15034=
22)

    - Subject prefixing could fail to collapse multiple 'Re:' in an incom=
ming
      message if they all came after the list's subject_prefix.  This is =
now
      fixed.  (LP: #1496620)

    - Defended against a user submitting URLs with query fragments or POS=
T
      data containing multiple occurrences of the same variable.
      (LP: #1496632)

    - Fixed bin/mailmanctl to check its effective rather than real uid.
      (LP: #1491187)

    - Fixed cron/gate_news to catch EOFError on opening the newsgroup.
      (LP: #1486263)

    - Fixed a bug where a delayed probe bounce can throw an AttributeErro=
r.
      (LP: #1482940)

    - If a list is not digestable an the user is not currently set to
      receive digests, the digest options will not be shown on the user's=

      options page.  (LP: #1476298)

    - Improved identification of remote clients for logging and subscribe=

      form checking in cases where access is via a proxy server.  Thanks =
to
      Jim Popovitch.  Also updated contrib/mmdsr for log change.

    - Fixed an issue with shunted messages on a list where the charset fo=
r
      the list's preferred_language had been changed from iso-8859-1 to
      utf-8 without recoding the list's description.  (LP: #1462755)

    - Mailman-Postfix integration will now add mailman at domain entries in
      data/virtual-mailman for each domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAI=
NS
      which is a host_name of a list.  This is so the addresses which are=

      exposed on admin and listinfo overview pages of virtual domains wil=
l
      be deliverable.  (LP: #1459236)

    - The vette log entry for DMARC policy hits now contains the list nam=
e.
      (LP: #1450826)

    - If SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET is enabled and a user's network has a load=

      balancer or similar in use the POSTing IP might not exactly match t=
he
      GETting IP.  This is now accounted for by not requiring the last
      octet (16 bits for ipV6) to match.  (LP: #1447445)

    - DKIM-Signature:, DomainKey-Signature: and Authentication-Results:
      headers are now removed by default from posts to anonymous lists.
      (LP: #1444673)

    - The list admin web UI Mambership List search function often doesn't=

      return correct results for search strings (regexps) that contain
      non-ascii characters.  This is partially fixed.  (LP: #1442298)


--------------060207060504090803080503
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8;
 name="fix_list"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="fix_list"

The following is a transcript of a withlist session that fixes a list
without new attributes.

It invokes withlist on 'listname'

looks at the lists dmarc_none_moderation_action which throws an Attribute=
Error

looks at the lists data_version which is 110.

sets it to 109.

saves and reloads the list.

verifies the data_version is now 110 again and dmarc_none_moderation_acti=
on
exists.

Wnlocks the list and exits.


msapiro at mail:~/mm$ bin/withlist -l listname
Loading list listname (locked)
The variable `m' is the listname MailList instance
>>> m.dmarc_none_moderation_action
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/srv/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 147, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: dmarc_none_moderation_action
>>> m.data_version
110
>>> m.data_version =3D 109
>>> m.Save()
>>> m.data_version
109
>>> m.Load()
>>> m.data_version
110
>>> m.dmarc_none_moderation_action
False
>>> m.Unlock()
>>>=20
Finalizing


Another way is to run bin/config_list on the list with an input file cont=
aining
the single line

mlist.data_version =3D 109


--------------060207060504090803080503--

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-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
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Mailman-announce at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce
Member address: mark at msapiro.net
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-announce/mark%40msapiro.net


From listgnome at protonmail.ch  Sun Feb 28 18:23:20 2016
From: listgnome at protonmail.ch (ListGnome ProtonMail)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 18:23:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modifying Privacy.py
In-Reply-To: <56CCF685.4080006@msapiro.net>
References: <929eNgODXm2BRGILw9UPx-UZGlIUz3BHN1j6CGgKqYvzeyo1UgtzedFNkHWHNdKNGBewr1W2XcTZdSUtLhaNTQ==@protonmail.ch>
 <56CCF685.4080006@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <V4fe9BrbFmsbF0bAsPoqmgxuEoJsmSt-u9JKBL_vMdfwhE-4WpsQpYKN_zytC7TopWEcdurYJt6CX7G98euBrQ==@protonmail.ch>

Thanks Mark,

That worked, with one little "gotcha". I found that after editing Privacy.py, I had to go to the admin page of the list and although the Privacy option was showing "Requires approval" - until I re-submitted the Privay Options page it would operate as if it were set on "Confirm".

To recap for anyone else interested:

1. Edit /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py

ABOUT LINES 77 TO 90, CHANGE:


else:
sub_cfentry = ('subscribe_policy', mm_cfg.Radio,
# choices
(_('Confirm'),
_('Require approval'),
_('Confirm and approve')),
1,
_('What steps are required for subscription?<br>'),
_('''Confirm (*) - email confirmation required <br>
Require approval - require list administrator
approval for subscriptions <br>
Confirm and approve - both confirm and approve


TO:


else:
sub_cfentry = ('subscribe_policy', mm_cfg.Radio,
# choices
(_('Require approval'),
_('Confirm and approve')),
1,
_('What steps are required for subscription?<br>'),
_('''Require approval - require list administrator
approval for subscriptions <br>
Confirm and approve - both confirm and approve



ABOUT LINE 554, CHANGE:

if property == 'subscribe_policy' and not mm_cfg.ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE:
val += 1

TO:

if property == 'subscribe_policy' and not mm_cfg.ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE:
val += 2


2. RESTART MAILMAN

3. Go to the list's admin page and select (re-select) "Require approval"
or "Confirm and approve" and submit the page.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Modifying Privacy.py
Local Time: February 24, 2016 11:17 am
UTC Time: February 24, 2016 12:17 AM
From: mark at msapiro.net
To: mailman-users at python.org

On 02/23/2016 03:44 PM, ListGnome ProtonMail via Mailman-Users wrote:
>
> There are currently three option and I'm trying to remove "Confirm"
> so that the only two options remain - "Require approval" and "Confirm
> and approve".
>
> In the file "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py" I've tried
> removing the lines that relate to "Confirm" - and as expected the
> Admin page looks okay with only the two desired options showing.
> However, what happens when someone subscribs is they actually get the
> "Confirm" process - rather than the expected "Requires approval".
>
> Is there another file I need to be looking at also? Or am I most
> likely just screwing up the "Privacy.py" file?


It's much more complicated than that. There are actually four possible
values for subscribe_policy. These values and their meanings are

0 -> Open subscribe, no confirm or approve.
1 -> Confirm, require user confirmation
2 -> Require approval
3 -> Confirm and approve, require user confirmation, then approval

There is already code in Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py to test the
mm_cfg.ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE setting and if it is false, not display the
open subscribe choice AND increment the return value allow for it's not
being there.

By removing the "Confirm" choice you are left with two choices whose
returned POST values will be 0 and 1. The mm_cfg.ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE
code will increment the return, so the two choices are 1 and 2 which are
'Confirm' and 'Require approval' Regardless of what the words say.

So Assuming you will NEVER set ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes, you can just
change the statement in the definition of _setValue() in
Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py from

if property == 'subscribe_policy' and not
mm_cfg.ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE:
val += 1

to

if property == 'subscribe_policy' and not
mm_cfg.ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE:
val += 2


--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
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Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/listgnome%40protonmail.ch

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 28 18:32:00 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 15:32:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.21 Final Release
Message-ID: <56D38370.6060602@msapiro.net>

Please ignore the spurious, fumble fingered post of a few minutes ago.

I am pleased to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.21.

Python 2.4 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.7 is strongly recommended.

This release includes a few new features and several bug fixes. Most of
the changes since the second release candidate are i18n updates, but
there are a few more bug fixes. See the attached README for details.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, please see our web site at one of:

http://www.list.org
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
http://mailman.sourceforge.net/
http://mirror.list.org/

Mailman 2.1.21 can be downloaded from

https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/
http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
-------------- next part --------------
2.1.21 (28-Feb-2016)

  New Features

    - There is a new dmarc_none_moderation_action list setting and a
      DEFAULT_DMARC_NONE_MODERATION_ACTION mm_cfg.py setting to optionally
      apply Munge From or Wrap Message actions to posts From: domains that
      publish DMARC p=none.  The intent is to eliminate failure reports to
      the domain owner for messages that would be munged or wrapped if the
      domain published a stronger DMARC policy.  See the descriptions in
      Defaults.py, the web UI and the bug report for more.  (LP: #1539384)

    - Thanks to Jim Popovitch there is now a feature to automatically turn
      on moderation for a malicious list member who attempts to flood a list
      with spam.  See the details for the Privacy options ... -> Sender
      filters -> member_verbosity_threshold and member_verbosity_interval
      settings in the web admin UI and the documentation in Defaults.py for
      the DEFAULT_MEMBER_VERBOSITY_* and VERBOSE_CLEAN_LIMIT settings for
      information.

    - bin/list_members now has options to display all moderated or all
      non-moderated members.

    - There is now a mm_cfg.py setting GLOBAL_BAN_LIST which is like the
      individual list's ban_list but applies globally to all subscribe
      requests.  See the description in Defaults.py for more details.

  i18n

    - The Japanese translation has been updated by Yasuhito FUTATSUKI.

    - Also thanks to Miloslav Trmac and Yasuhito FUTATSUKI, the l10n for
      Mailman's bin/ commands has been fixed to display using the character
      set of the user's work station even when Mailman's character set for
      the language is different.  Because this has not been tested over a
      wide set of locales, there is an mm_cfg.py switch
      DISABLE_COMMAND_LOCALE_CSET to disable it if it causes problems.
      (LP: #558167)

    - The Polish translation has been updated by Stefan Plewako.

    - The German translation has been updated by Mirian Margiani and
      Bernhard Schmidt.

    - The Russian translation has been updated by Danil Smirnov.

    - Several Galician templates that were improperly encoded as iso-8859-1
      have been fixed.  (LP: #1532504)

    - The Brazilian Portugese translation has been updated by Emerson Ribeiro
      de Mello.

  Bug fixes and other patches

    - If DMARC lookup fails to find a policy, also try the Organizational
      Domain.  Associated with this is a new mm_cfg.py setting
      DMARC_ORGANIZATIONAL_DOMAIN_DATA_URL which sets the URL used to
      retrieve the data for the algorithm that computes the Organizational
      Domain.  See https://publicsuffix.org/list/ for info.  (LP: #1549420)

    - Modified contrib/mmdsr to correctly report No such list names that
      contain ".

    - User's "Acknowledge" option will now be honored for posts to anonymous
      lists.  (LP: #1546679)

    - Fixed a typo in the Non-digest options regular_exclude_ignore
      description thanks to Yasuhito FUTATSUKI.

    - DEFAULT_PASS_MIME_TYPES has been changed to accept text/plain sub-parts
      from message/rfc822 parts and multipart parts other than mixed and
      alternative and also accept pgp signatures.  This only applies to newly
      created lists and other than pgp signatures, still only accepts
      text/plain.  (LP: #1517446)

    - Modified contrib/mmdsr to report held and banned subscriptions and DMARC
      lookups in their own categories.

    - Fixed a bug that could create a garbled From: header with certain DMARC
      mitigation actions.  (LP: #1536816)

    - Treat a poster's address which matches an equivalent_domains address as
      a list member for the regular_exclude_ignore check.  (LP: #1526550)

    - Fixed an issue that sometimes left no white space following
      subject_prefix.  (LP: #1525954)

    - Vette log entries for banned subscriptions now include the source of
      the request if available.  (LP: #1525733)

    - Submitting the user options form for a user who was asynchronously
      unsubscribed would throw an uncaught NotAMemberError.  (LP: #1523273)

    - It was possible under some circumstances for a message to be shunted
      after a handler rejected or discarded it, and the handler would be
      skipped upon unshunting and the message accepted.  (LP: #1519062)

    - Posts gated to usenet will no longer have other than the target group
      in the Newsgroups: header.  (LP: #1512866)

    - Invalid regexps in *_these_nonmembers, subscribe_auto_approval and
      ban_list are now logged.  (LP: #1507241)

    - Refactored the GetPattern list method to simplify extending @listname
      syntax to new attributes in the future.  Changed Moderate.py to use the
      GetPattern method to process the *_these_nonmembers lists.

    - Changed CookHeaders to default to using space rather than tab as
      continuation_ws when folding headers.  (LP: #1505878)

    - Fixed the 'pidfile' path in the sample init.d script.  (LP: # 1503422)

    - Subject prefixing could fail to collapse multiple 'Re:' in an incomming
      message if they all came after the list's subject_prefix.  This is now
      fixed.  (LP: #1496620)

    - Defended against a user submitting URLs with query fragments or POST
      data containing multiple occurrences of the same variable.
      (LP: #1496632)

    - Fixed bin/mailmanctl to check its effective rather than real uid.
      (LP: #1491187)

    - Fixed cron/gate_news to catch EOFError on opening the newsgroup.
      (LP: #1486263)

    - Fixed a bug where a delayed probe bounce can throw an AttributeError.
      (LP: #1482940)

    - If a list is not digestable an the user is not currently set to
      receive digests, the digest options will not be shown on the user's
      options page.  (LP: #1476298)

    - Improved identification of remote clients for logging and subscribe
      form checking in cases where access is via a proxy server.  Thanks to
      Jim Popovitch.  Also updated contrib/mmdsr for log change.

    - Fixed an issue with shunted messages on a list where the charset for
      the list's preferred_language had been changed from iso-8859-1 to
      utf-8 without recoding the list's description.  (LP: #1462755)

    - Mailman-Postfix integration will now add mailman at domain entries in
      data/virtual-mailman for each domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
      which is a host_name of a list.  This is so the addresses which are
      exposed on admin and listinfo overview pages of virtual domains will
      be deliverable.  (LP: #1459236)

    - The vette log entry for DMARC policy hits now contains the list name.
      (LP: #1450826)

    - If SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET is enabled and a user's network has a load
      balancer or similar in use the POSTing IP might not exactly match the
      GETting IP.  This is now accounted for by not requiring the last
      octet (16 bits for ipV6) to match.  (LP: #1447445)

    - DKIM-Signature:, DomainKey-Signature: and Authentication-Results:
      headers are now removed by default from posts to anonymous lists.
      (LP: #1444673)

    - The list admin web UI Mambership List search function often doesn't
      return correct results for search strings (regexps) that contain
      non-ascii characters.  This is partially fixed.  (LP: #1442298)

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From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 28 18:55:41 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 15:55:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modifying Privacy.py
In-Reply-To: <V4fe9BrbFmsbF0bAsPoqmgxuEoJsmSt-u9JKBL_vMdfwhE-4WpsQpYKN_zytC7TopWEcdurYJt6CX7G98euBrQ==@protonmail.ch>
References: <929eNgODXm2BRGILw9UPx-UZGlIUz3BHN1j6CGgKqYvzeyo1UgtzedFNkHWHNdKNGBewr1W2XcTZdSUtLhaNTQ==@protonmail.ch>
 <56CCF685.4080006@msapiro.net>
 <V4fe9BrbFmsbF0bAsPoqmgxuEoJsmSt-u9JKBL_vMdfwhE-4WpsQpYKN_zytC7TopWEcdurYJt6CX7G98euBrQ==@protonmail.ch>
Message-ID: <56D388FD.3060806@msapiro.net>

On 02/28/2016 03:23 PM, ListGnome ProtonMail wrote:
> Thanks Mark,
> 
> That worked, with one little "gotcha". I found that after editing
> Privacy.py, I had to go to the admin page of the list and although the
> Privacy option was showing "Requires approval" - until I re-submitted
> the Privay Options page it would operate as if it were set on "Confirm".


Which raises another point. I forgot to mention about the display of the
current value which is now wrong.

Your current two choices actually correspond to values of the
subscribe_policy attribute of 2 and 3, but in the HTML, the checked
attribute will apply to values of 1 and 2.

You also need to edit Mailman/Cgi/admin.py around line 672, change
        if varname == 'subscribe_policy' and not
mm_cfg.ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE:
            checked = checked - 1

to

        if varname == 'subscribe_policy' and not
mm_cfg.ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE:
            checked = checked - 2

Also note that if you were dealing with an other attribute and not the
one that already had this kludgey code to handle 3 vs 4 choices, it
would be even messier.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Feb 28 22:04:24 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 12:04:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
Message-ID: <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Ruben Safir writes:

 > When I read this, it just seems to me that you guys don't know how
 > the software works.

This is user-supported software.  Not everybody is all that expert,
but people contribute when and what they can.  And mild thread-
hijacking like asking if there's a way to get certain information
related to the thread isn't unusual.

 > I posted logs to postfix and what they are asking is frankly
 > impossible to acquire.

Then perhaps you have to live with the delays.  They (like us) ask for
information that is known to have been useful in diagnosing problems
in the past.  Without information, it's impossible to diagnose.

By the way, it is not unheard of that restarting the mail system
clears up backlogs just like that.  (Don't bet your house on it, but
it does happen.)  A typical reason is that in normal operation,
"exponential backoff" is used so that delays from retries increase
with each retry until you've tried for several days, but on system
startup there's provision for an attempt to "flush" the queue right
away, not worrying about when the next try for a message is scheduled.
If that succeeds, the backlog disappears.

Of course if there's a persistent problem, the backlog will reappear.

 > I can't get answers to basic questions such as

Short answer: you didn't ask.  In the posts I've seen, you just
announced that it wasn't working as you expected.

 > When the email comes to mailman, where does it go.

First it is delivered to the mailman program itself over a pipe,
according to the alias in the Postfix configuration.  If it's a post,
it is then saved in a .pck file in a queue directory (typically
/usr/var/mailman/queue/incoming/).  The incoming runner checks the
directory for changes, picks up the new .pck when it appears, decides
what to do with it after checking for spam, inserting footer and other
mailing list stuff like List-* headers, and finally puts in in one or
more queues (eg, archive, outgoing).  Those runners do the same
dance.  Typically the whole process occurs in under a second.

 > How does the MTA know to pick up the mail.

The Mailman outgoing runner connects to the well-known port for mail,
where the MTA is listening.  I think it's possible to configure
Mailman to use the "sendmail" program via stdin, but in modern systems
(specifically Postfix) it's much more efficient to use a socket, since
the sendmail program itself often just drops the message in a queue to
be processed by a daemon serving the outgoing queue.

 > It seems to process mail in sweeps, rather than in real time when
 > mail arrives.

What do you mean by "real time"?  If you look at what Postfix does,
it's just like Mailman: composed of several programs, each with a
specific responsibility, that receives a message as a file in a queue
directory, processes it, places the output in a file in another queue
directory, and only if that was successful, removes the input queue
file.  The final step is to connect to another mail server over the
network, but again the input queue file is not removed until the
remote server says "250 OK", which means that the message has been
saved as a file on the remote system.  This can be done quickly (my
system typically processes a post end-to-end in under a second, though
at most 20 subscribers), but often not in what communication engineers
mean by "real time".

In fact, when you see stuff like this:

 > 2016-02-28T10:27:00.724625-05:00 www postfix/smtpd[21374]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from www.mrbrklyn.com[96.57.23.82]: 450
 > +4.1.2 <dyfet at gnutelephony.org>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found; from=<hangout-bounces at nylxs.com>
 > +to=<dyfet at gnutelephony.org> proto=ESMTP helo=<www.mrbrklyn.com>

what you're seeing is that you have quite a few possibly invalid
addresses that you're trying to send to.  In fact, the first ten were
rejected without a single success -- I don't see how any mailing list
manager could deal efficiently with such a high rate of failure,
especially if it frequently involves DNS failures as this one does,
and several of the other log entries report the same outcome.  Note
that the failure is considered temporary.  IIRC, that means that DNS
lookup failed with no result, not that the relevant nameserver (the
.org rootserver in this case) said there was no such domain.  That
probably means multiple timeouts on DNS lookups, each of which might
take 30 seconds.  (I tried "host gnutelephony.org" myself, and got a
DNS timeout after 30 seconds.)  If you have two nameservers
configured, it seems likely that we have just found one common reason
it takes your Mailman 60+ seconds to process one queue entry.

Temporary failure also means that the queue file will remain, as the
system believes that retrying may succeed.  (Any mailing list manager
that does not preserve the message in this way is losing mail.)  I
don't know precisely what you mean by "sweeps", but the fact that
there are quite a few temporary failure queuefiles hanging around
would account for apparently unrelated posts being processed at the
same time.

 > That is seperate greps of TO and FROM'S to the maillist.  Obviously
 > it is very difficult to know what is happening by looking at the
 > logs.  Majordomo sends email straight to the MTA though aliases and
 > a pipe.

I certainly hope it wouldn't do that in the cases reported in the log
in your post, since the overwhelming majority are temporary failures.
It needs to be prepared to save the message to retry later.  I suppose
it's possible that Majordomo would have dealt with whatever the
situation actually is more efficiently, but I suspect that it would
have problems of some kind, and you just happened to change to Mailman
at a time when the list's environment became unstable.

I suspect that your problem involves your DNS, since so many of the
posts are rejected with "Domain not found".  Or it could be that you
just have an overwhelming majority of addresses with invalid domains,
or even that Postfix is misconfigured to report temporary failure
(450) when it should be reporting permanent failure (nonexistent
domain, 550).

By the way, when did you switch to Mailman?  Did you start
experiencing this problem immediately when you did?


From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Mon Feb 29 01:28:40 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 01:28:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <56D3E518.6070801@panix.com>

On 02/28/2016 10:04 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> I don't see how any mailing list
> manager could deal efficiently with such a high rate of failure,

OK - I understand.  Another mailing list manager was doing it before
perl4 really died.  I guess the reality of this is beginning to sink in.



-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Mon Feb 29 01:31:51 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 01:31:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <56D3E5D7.2070609@panix.com>

On 02/28/2016 10:04 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> By the way, when did you switch to Mailman?  Did you start
> experiencing this problem immediately when you did?


about 6 months ago and the problem was concurrent absolutely with the
initiation of mailman.

There seems to be no settings I can set to make mailman work, if what
your saying is true.



-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 29 01:34:36 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 22:34:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D3E5D7.2070609@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D3E5D7.2070609@panix.com>
Message-ID: <56D3E67C.2070704@msapiro.net>

On 02/28/2016 10:31 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> On 02/28/2016 10:04 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>> By the way, when did you switch to Mailman?  Did you start
>> experiencing this problem immediately when you did?
> 
> 
> about 6 months ago and the problem was concurrent absolutely with the
> initiation of mailman.
> 
> There seems to be no settings I can set to make mailman work, if what
> your saying is true.


I think we can fix your issue fairly simply.

Please, as I asked in my reply at
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-February/080524.html>,
post the output from 'postconf -n' and the contents of mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Mon Feb 29 01:42:59 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 01:42:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <56D3E873.9000904@panix.com>

On 02/28/2016 10:04 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> IIRC, that means that DNS
> lookup failed with no result, not that the relevant nameserver (the
> .org rootserver in this case) said there was no such domain.  That
> probably means multiple timeouts on DNS lookups, each of which might
> take 30 seconds.  (I tried "host gnutelephony.org" myself, and got a
> DNS timeout after 30 seconds.) 


It is a strange thought but failure of one message shouldn't prevent the
new messages in mailman to go out in real time.  The definition of real
time is immediately when the mail is received, it is processed and sent
through.  A sweep, which is how it currently behaves, means that mailman
holds on to all its messages, maybe for 10 minutes, and then shoots them
all through to postfix at that point, and then it stops doing sending
again until it feels like it.  What I want to set iut up to do, if it
can, is send the messages out right away as soon as it gets them.  I
want it to ignore the time outs and bounces and just send the messages
out right away, when they arrive and after post processing the headers etc.

I don't care if it takes 30 seconds to do dig  gnutelephony.org.  It
should just ignore that sent message and not do anything if it times
out.  I'm running mailing lists on coding and meetings and politics, not
running 911.

Can it be set up like that and if so, please tell me how.

Ruben

-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 29 01:50:36 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 22:50:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D3E873.9000904@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D3E873.9000904@panix.com>
Message-ID: <56D3EA3C.8030306@msapiro.net>

On 02/28/2016 10:42 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> 
> Can it be set up like that and if so, please tell me how.


I'm trying to!

Please see my posts archived at
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-February/080524.html>
and
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-February/080533.html>.

Please as I ask, show me 'postconf -n' mm_cfg.py and you might as well
include Postfix's master.cf too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Mon Feb 29 01:51:30 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 01:51:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D3E67C.2070704@msapiro.net>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D3E5D7.2070609@panix.com> <56D3E67C.2070704@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56D3EA72.1080200@panix.com>

On 02/29/2016 01:34 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I think we can fix your issue fairly simply.
> 
> Please, as I asked in my reply at
> <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-February/080524.html>,
> post the output from 'postconf -n' and the contents of mm_cfg.py.


Sorry, I got mixed up.  Its just probably the frustration.  Everyone
uses mailman, I don't know why I'm so stupid


alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
biff = no
canonical_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/canonical
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
content_filter =
daemon_directory = /usr/lib/postfix
data_directory = /var/lib/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
debugger_command = PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin ddd
$daemon_directory/$process_name $process_id & sleep 5
defer_transports =
delay_warning_time = 1h
disable_dns_lookups = no
disable_mime_output_conversion = no
disable_vrfy_command = yes
html_directory = /usr/share/doc/packages/postfix-doc/html
inet_interfaces = all
inet_protocols = ipv4
mail_owner = postfix
mail_spool_directory = /var/mail
mailbox_command = /usr/bin/procmail
mailbox_size_limit = 0
mailbox_transport =
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq
manpage_directory = /usr/share/man
masquerade_classes = envelope_sender, header_sender, header_recipient
masquerade_domains = mrbrklyn.com, mrbrklyn.com
masquerade_exceptions = root
message_size_limit = 0
message_strip_characters = \0
mydestination = www.mrbrklyn.com, www2.mrbrklyn.com, home.mrbrklyn.com,
mrbrklyn.com, nylxs.com, brooklyn-living.com, freedon_it.com
mydomain = mrbrklyn.com
myhostname = mrbrklyn.com
mynetworks_style = subnet
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/packages/postfix-doc/README_FILES
relay_clientcerts =
relayhost =
relocated_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/relocated
sample_directory = /usr/share/doc/packages/postfix-doc/samples
sender_canonical_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/sender_canonical
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail
setgid_group = maildrop
smtp_enforce_tls = no
smtp_generic_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/generic
smtp_sasl_auth_enable = no
smtp_sasl_password_maps =
smtp_sasl_security_options =
smtp_tls_CAfile =
smtp_tls_CApath =
smtp_tls_cert_file =
smtp_tls_key_file =
smtp_tls_session_cache_database =
smtp_use_tls = no
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP
smtpd_client_restrictions = reject_rbl_client dnsbl.sorbs.net
smtpd_data_restrictions = reject_unauth_pipelining, permit
smtpd_delay_reject = yes
smtpd_helo_required = yes
smtpd_helo_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject_invalid_hostname,
regexp:/etc/postfix/helo.regexp, permit
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = check_client_access
hash:/etc/postfix/helo_client_exceptions check_sender_access
hash:/etc/postfix/sender_checks, reject_invalid_hostname,
reject_non_fqdn_hostname, reject_non_fqdn_sender,
reject_non_fqdn_recipient, reject_unknown_sender_domain,
reject_unknown_recipient_domain, permit_mynetworks,
reject_unauth_destination, permit_mynetworks, reject_unauth_destination,
reject_invalid_hostname, reject_non_fqdn_hostname,
reject_non_fqdn_sender, reject_non_fqdn_recipient,
reject_unknown_sender_domain, reject_unknown_recipient_domain,
reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org, reject_rbl_client bl.spamcop.net
reject_rbl_client cbl.abuseat.org, permit
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = no
smtpd_sender_restrictions = hash:/etc/postfix/access,
reject_unknown_sender_domain
smtpd_tls_CAfile =
smtpd_tls_CApath =
smtpd_tls_ask_ccert = no
smtpd_tls_cert_file =
smtpd_tls_key_file =
smtpd_tls_received_header = no
smtpd_use_tls = no
strict_8bitmime = no
strict_rfc821_envelopes = yes
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
virtual_alias_domains = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


vim /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py

###############################################
# Here's where we get the distributed defaults.

from Defaults import *

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
DEFAULT_NNTP_HOST = 'www.mrbrklyn.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'nylxs.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.nylxs.com'
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPHOST = 'mrbrklyn.com'
SMTPPORT = '25'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('lists.mrbrklyn.com', 'mrbrklyn.com')
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'



There is another one in apache:
I don't know if it is being used.
vim /usr/local/apache/conf/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py

###############################################
# Here's where we get the distributed defaults.

from Defaults import *

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
DEFAULT_NNTP_HOST = 'www.mrbrklyn.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'nylxs.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.nylxs.com'
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPHOST = 'mrbrklyn.com'
SMTPPORT = '25'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'

-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Mon Feb 29 01:53:57 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 01:53:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D3E873.9000904@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D3E873.9000904@panix.com>
Message-ID: <56D3EB05.8030508@panix.com>

On 02/29/2016 01:42 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> dig  gnutelephony.org

that does hang.  These are OLD mailing lists and it is hard to be
responsible for 20 years of DNS errors by organizations I have no
control over.


-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Mon Feb 29 01:55:03 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 01:55:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D3EA3C.8030306@msapiro.net>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D3E873.9000904@panix.com> <56D3EA3C.8030306@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56D3EB47.3020800@panix.com>

On 02/29/2016 01:50 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 02/28/2016 10:42 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
>>
>> Can it be set up like that and if so, please tell me how.
> 
> 
> I'm trying to!
> 
> Please see my posts archived at
> <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-February/080524.html>
> and
> <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-February/080533.html>.
> 
> Please as I ask, show me 'postconf -n' mm_cfg.py and you might as well
> include Postfix's master.cf too.
> 


I did ... sorry.  I'm trying to not let my frustration show.  I
apologize if my tone can be better.

-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Feb 29 02:12:15 2016
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 23:12:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D3EB05.8030508@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D3E873.9000904@panix.com> <56D3EB05.8030508@panix.com>
Message-ID: <56D3EF4F.2050002@tuunq.com>

On 2/28/2016 10:53 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> On 02/29/2016 01:42 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
>> dig  gnutelephony.org
>
> that does hang.  These are OLD mailing lists and it is hard to be
> responsible for 20 years of DNS errors by organizations I have no
> control over.

I think that may be the crux of your problem. If half a list of 500 is 
addresses that timeout instead of being immediately rejected, well, 30 
seconds each times 250 timeouts equals 2 hours wasted.

I would run through the logs to find all the domains that are timing out on 
dns, then mark the recipients on those domains as "no mail". After that, see 
how delivery goes for the rest of them. Besides, why keep users on the list 
than don't exist or actually get delivery?


Oh, and -nothing- involved in email handling is "real time", which has a 
fairly specific meaning in computing. *All* email is queued at least a 
couple of times along the way and delivered as those systems get around to 
it. Often that's within seconds, but not always. I'm on some lists with 100s 
of users, and it's not uncommon for a message to take an hour to get to 
everyone.

z!


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 29 02:19:18 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 23:19:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D3EA72.1080200@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D3E5D7.2070609@panix.com> <56D3E67C.2070704@msapiro.net>
 <56D3EA72.1080200@panix.com>
Message-ID: <56D3F0F6.6020307@msapiro.net>

On 02/28/2016 10:51 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> On 02/29/2016 01:34 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> I think we can fix your issue fairly simply.
>>
>> Please, as I asked in my reply at
>> <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-February/080524.html>,
>> post the output from 'postconf -n' and the contents of mm_cfg.py.
> 
> 
> Sorry, I got mixed up.  Its just probably the frustration.  Everyone
> uses mailman, I don't know why I'm so stupid
> 
> 

> smtpd_recipient_restrictions = check_client_access
> hash:/etc/postfix/helo_client_exceptions check_sender_access
> hash:/etc/postfix/sender_checks, reject_invalid_hostname,
> reject_non_fqdn_hostname, reject_non_fqdn_sender,
> reject_non_fqdn_recipient, reject_unknown_sender_domain,
> reject_unknown_recipient_domain, permit_mynetworks,
> reject_unauth_destination, permit_mynetworks, reject_unauth_destination,
> reject_invalid_hostname, reject_non_fqdn_hostname,
> reject_non_fqdn_sender, reject_non_fqdn_recipient,
> reject_unknown_sender_domain, reject_unknown_recipient_domain,
> reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org, reject_rbl_client bl.spamcop.net
> reject_rbl_client cbl.abuseat.org, permit


This is almost certainly your problem. All those checks take time,
especially if DNS is slow. If you send a message from a client and
Postfix takes 5 seconds to accept it, it's no big deal. If Mailman sends
to 10 or 20 recipients, and it takes Postfix a minute to respond, it
still may be no big deal unless another two posts arrive in that minute
, and so on until you have a big backlog.

I suggest that if you really want all those checks, that you set up a
separate port for Mailman to send to without all those rbl lookups and
recipient domain lookups. See below.


> vim /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
> 
> ###############################################
> # Here's where we get the distributed defaults.
> 
> from Defaults import *
> 
> ##################################################
> # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
> DEFAULT_NNTP_HOST = 'www.mrbrklyn.com'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'nylxs.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.nylxs.com'
> MTA = 'Postfix'
> POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
> POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
> DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
> SMTPHOST = 'mrbrklyn.com'
> SMTPPORT = '25'


Here's where I'm suggesting changes. Pick a port, say 8000, although it
could be anything that doesn't conflict.

Then change the above to

SMTPHOST = '127.0.0.1'
SMTPPORT = 8000

(don't quote the port - it's a number, not a string)

Also, while you're at it I suggest adding

VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1

for more reliable bounce processing.

But, see below for changes to Postfix master.cf that you must make first.

> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> add_virtualhost('lists.mrbrklyn.com', 'mrbrklyn.com')
> IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'
> 
> 
> 
> There is another one in apache:
> I don't know if it is being used.
> vim /usr/local/apache/conf/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py

No, that shouldn't be used.


In Postfix master.cf add the following stanza

127.0.0.1:8000  inet  n       -       -       -        -      smtpd
        -o smtpd_authorized_xforward_hosts=127.0.0.0/8
        -o mynetworks=127.0.0.0/8
        -o smtpd_recipient_restrictions=permit_mynetworks,reject
        -o smtpd_client_restrictions=
        -o smtpd_helo_restrictions=
        -o smtpd_sender_restrictions=
        -o smtpd_data_restrictions=

Make this addition to Postfix master.cf and reload Postfix. Only after
you've done that and Postfix is listening on the loopback interface port
8000, make the changes to mm_cfg.py and restart Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 29 02:25:43 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 23:25:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D3F0F6.6020307@msapiro.net>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D3E5D7.2070609@panix.com> <56D3E67C.2070704@msapiro.net>
 <56D3EA72.1080200@panix.com> <56D3F0F6.6020307@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56D3F277.8040103@msapiro.net>

On 02/28/2016 11:19 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> Also, while you're at it I suggest adding
> 
> VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
> VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
> VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
> 
> for more reliable bounce processing.


One more thing. If you add the above to mm_cfg.py, you also need

recipient_delimiter = +

in Postfix main.cf. If that's a problem, then don't add those 3 lines to
mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Mon Feb 29 02:28:16 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 02:28:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D3EF4F.2050002@tuunq.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D3E873.9000904@panix.com> <56D3EB05.8030508@panix.com>
 <56D3EF4F.2050002@tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <56D3F310.8050709@panix.com>

On 02/29/2016 02:12 AM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
> Oh, and -nothing- involved in email handling is "real time", which has a
> fairly specific meaning in computing. *All* email is queued at least a
> couple of times along the way and delivered as those systems get around
> to it.

Use whatever terminology you wish.  RT is a scheduler term, but it has
meaning outside of that.  I can't have mailing list mail waiting for an
hour to reach users.  It kills the flow of discussion.



-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Mon Feb 29 02:34:30 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 02:34:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D3F0F6.6020307@msapiro.net>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D3E5D7.2070609@panix.com> <56D3E67C.2070704@msapiro.net>
 <56D3EA72.1080200@panix.com> <56D3F0F6.6020307@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56D3F486.6040600@panix.com>

On 02/29/2016 02:19 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 02/28/2016 10:51 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
>> On 02/29/2016 01:34 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> I think we can fix your issue fairly simply.
>>>
>>> Please, as I asked in my reply at
>>> <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-February/080524.html>,
>>> post the output from 'postconf -n' and the contents of mm_cfg.py.
>>
>>
>> Sorry, I got mixed up.  Its just probably the frustration.  Everyone
>> uses mailman, I don't know why I'm so stupid
>>
>>
> 
>> smtpd_recipient_restrictions = check_client_access
>> hash:/etc/postfix/helo_client_exceptions check_sender_access
>> hash:/etc/postfix/sender_checks, reject_invalid_hostname,
>> reject_non_fqdn_hostname, reject_non_fqdn_sender,
>> reject_non_fqdn_recipient, reject_unknown_sender_domain,
>> reject_unknown_recipient_domain, permit_mynetworks,
>> reject_unauth_destination, permit_mynetworks, reject_unauth_destination,
>> reject_invalid_hostname, reject_non_fqdn_hostname,
>> reject_non_fqdn_sender, reject_non_fqdn_recipient,
>> reject_unknown_sender_domain, reject_unknown_recipient_domain,
>> reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org, reject_rbl_client bl.spamcop.net
>> reject_rbl_client cbl.abuseat.org, permit
> 
> 
> This is almost certainly your problem. All those checks take time,
> especially if DNS is slow. If you send a message from a client and
> Postfix takes 5 seconds to accept it, it's no big deal. If Mailman sends
> to 10 or 20 recipients, and it takes Postfix a minute to respond, it
> still may be no big deal unless another two posts arrive in that minute
> , and so on until you have a big backlog.
> 
> I suggest that if you really want all those checks, that you set up a
> separate port for Mailman to send to without all those rbl lookups and
> recipient domain lookups. See below.
> 
> 
>> vim /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
>>
>> ###############################################
>> # Here's where we get the distributed defaults.
>>
>> from Defaults import *
>>
>> ##################################################
>> # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
>> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
>> DEFAULT_NNTP_HOST = 'www.mrbrklyn.com'
>> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'nylxs.com'
>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.nylxs.com'
>> MTA = 'Postfix'
>> POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
>> POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
>> DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
>> SMTPHOST = 'mrbrklyn.com'
>> SMTPPORT = '25'
> 
> 
> Here's where I'm suggesting changes. Pick a port, say 8000, although it
> could be anything that doesn't conflict.
> 
> Then change the above to
> 
> SMTPHOST = '127.0.0.1'
> SMTPPORT = 8000
> 
> (don't quote the port - it's a number, not a string)
> 
> Also, while you're at it I suggest adding
> 
> VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
> VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
> VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
> 
> for more reliable bounce processing.
> 
> But, see below for changes to Postfix master.cf that you must make first.
> 
>> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>> add_virtualhost('lists.mrbrklyn.com', 'mrbrklyn.com')
>> IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'
>>
>>
>>
>> There is another one in apache:
>> I don't know if it is being used.
>> vim /usr/local/apache/conf/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
> 
> No, that shouldn't be used.
> 
> 
> In Postfix master.cf add the following stanza
> 
> 127.0.0.1:8000  inet  n       -       -       -        -      smtpd
>         -o smtpd_authorized_xforward_hosts=127.0.0.0/8
>         -o mynetworks=127.0.0.0/8
>         -o smtpd_recipient_restrictions=permit_mynetworks,reject
>         -o smtpd_client_restrictions=
>         -o smtpd_helo_restrictions=
>         -o smtpd_sender_restrictions=
>         -o smtpd_data_restrictions=
> 
> Make this addition to Postfix master.cf and reload Postfix. Only after
> you've done that and Postfix is listening on the loopback interface port
> 8000, make the changes to mm_cfg.py and restart Mailman.
> 

OK .  That port is restricted to a 12.0.0.0/8 relay?  The last thing I
need is for someone to be monitoring this list and pounding port 8000
for a spam relay.

-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Mon Feb 29 03:08:29 2016
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 01:08:29 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
Message-ID: <201602290808.u1T88ToM014615@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Ruben Safir has said:
> 
> On 02/28/2016 03:57 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> > On 2/28/2016 1:19 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
> >> If that doesn't make it obvious what you need to do, you might want to
> >> tell us something about your configuration and use case.  What version
> >> of Mailman?  Did you install as a package from a distribution or from
> >> source?  If from a distribution, which one?
> > 
> > Been meaning to ask...
> > 
> > Would it be difficult to add a command similar to postfix's postconf -n
> > that would dump the currently used config?
> > 
> When I read this, it just seems to me that you guys don't know how the 
> software works.  I posted logs to postfix and what they are asking is 
> frankly impossible to acquire.  This is a live system running a lot 
> of email in /var/spool/mail and the delays show up when the system 
> is under use.  I can't just restart it and expect the delays to 
> show up and I can't get answers to basic questions such as
> 
> When the email comes to mailman, where does it go.  How does the MTA know 
> to pick up the mail.  It seems to process mail in sweeps, rather than in 
> real time when mail arrives.
> 
<snip>

I'm going to chime in here, as a Mailman user, not as a list advisor.
Mark and Steve know perfectly well how the software works.  So do a good
many others who are reading this list.  I don't expect them to give you
a 3-semester-hour tutorial on E-mail basics.  They have asked you a few
fundamental questions, which I don't see being answered.  To wit:

a. What is your computer hardware?
b. What operating system are you running?
c. What is your current DNS setup?  (I presume a couple of ISP servers
not on your site).
d. Where did you get your Mailman package?  Prebuilt package for your
O/S?  Build and install from Mailman source?  
e. What are the contents of your mm_cfg.py file?  
f. What's the volume of your outgoing mail?  That's number of
messages/hr, average message size, number of users receiving mail.
And how much other mail is your MTA handling along with Mailman mail?
g. What is your connection to the internet backbone?  And what is your
upload speed?


>From looking at your Postfix logs, it looks as though you have a major
DNS problem.  I suggest that you install bind and set up a caching DNS
server on the same box that is running Mailman.  That will stop
dependence on external servers, which aren't set up to handle the floods
of requests that Mailman can generate.  Not only is that a matter of
common courtesy to outside sysadmins, any request flooding is going to
be handled much more quickly on your own box.  

I'm not familiar with Postfix and its logs, as I run Sendmail.  However,
I can tell you that reading the MTA logs carefully to see if initial
attempts to connect are failing, and asking "why," if they are, can go a
long way toward solving delay problems.  Remember that MTA's queue
connection failures for retry later, and those retries happen on 15
minute intervals in Sendmail default installations.  Mailman has logging
for its side of delivery to the MTA, as Mark has told you.  But I'll
suggest looking at MTA performance first.  Keep in mind that while
batching mail with a large RCPT list is efficient for some of the large
target sites, those sites often simply defer back with 4.xx responses
unless you cut down the number of RCPT's.  

If you haven't got a clear understanding of how SMTP E-mail works, there
are plenty of sources for study and learning.  One thing SMTP is not, is
"instantaneous," or even quick.  After all, it was developed for
slow-speed telephone lines a long time ago.  

Hank



From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Mon Feb 29 03:49:38 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 03:49:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <201602290808.u1T88ToM014615@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <201602290808.u1T88ToM014615@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <56D40622.3050407@panix.com>

On 02/29/2016 03:08 AM, Hank van Cleef wrote:
> a. What is your computer hardware?

fit/pc2 Intel Atom with a gig of ram and 2 gigs of swap on a tetrabyte
----- /proc/cpuinfo -----
  processor     : 0
  vendor_id     : GenuineIntel
  cpu family    : 6
  model         : 28
  model name    : Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU Z510   @ 1.10GHz
  stepping      : 2
  microcode     : 0x211
  cpu MHz               : 1100.000
  cache size    : 512 KB
  physical id   : 0
  siblings      : 1
  core id               : 0
  cpu cores     : 1
  apicid                : 0
  initial apicid        : 0
  fdiv_bug      : no
  f00f_bug      : no
  coma_bug      : no
  fpu           : yes
  fpu_exception : yes
  cpuid level   : 10
  wp            : yes
  flags         : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge
mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss tm pbe nx
constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl
est tm2 ssse3 xtpr pdcm movbe lahf_lm dtherm
  bogomips      : 2194.49
  clflush size  : 64
  cache_alignment       : 64
  address sizes : 32 bits physical, 32 bits virtual
  power management:





although I have run the lists previously on a PentiumII

> b. What operating system are you running?

opensuse 13.2 upgraded from Slackware 3.4

> c. What is your current DNS setup?  (I presume a couple of ISP servers
> not on your site).

 whois nylxs.com
....
Tech Email: ruben at mrbrklyn.com
Name Server: WWW2.MRBRKLYN.COM
Name Server: NS1.LINUXMAFIA.COM

www:~ # dig mx nylxs.com

; <<>> DiG 9.9.2 <<>> mx nylxs.com
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 15524
;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 3

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;nylxs.com.                     IN      MX

;; ANSWER SECTION:
nylxs.com.              86400   IN      MX      10 www2.mrbrklyn.com.

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
nylxs.com.              86400   IN      NS      ns1.linuxmafia.com.
nylxs.com.              86400   IN      NS      www2.mrbrklyn.com.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
www2.mrbrklyn.com.      86400   IN      A       96.57.23.82
ns1.linuxmafia.com.     63442   IN      A       198.144.195.186

;; Query time: 3 msec
;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)
;; WHEN: Mon Feb 29 03:45:12 2016
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 143


> d. Where did you get your Mailman package?  Prebuilt package for your
> O/S?  Build and install from Mailman source?


probably from the opensuse repos

> e. What are the contents of your mm_cfg.py file?

see previous emails

> f. What's the volume of your outgoing mail?  That's number of
> messages/hr, average message size, number of users receiving mail.
> And how much other mail is your MTA handling along with Mailman mail?

maybe 20K emails an hour or less.


> g. What is your connection to the internet backbone?  And what is your
> upload speed?

Cable  with a 50 Mbps downloads and 25 Mbps uploads connection... in
theory.  Faster than the DLS I used to have with Covad before 9-11.

Reuvain
-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Feb 29 04:00:58 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 18:00:58 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D3F0F6.6020307@msapiro.net>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D3E5D7.2070609@panix.com> <56D3E67C.2070704@msapiro.net>
 <56D3EA72.1080200@panix.com> <56D3F0F6.6020307@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <22228.2250.490986.83671@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > This is almost certainly your problem. All those [RBL] checks take
 > time, especially if DNS is slow.

Also, several of the checks (RBL and otherwise) seem to be in there
repeatedly.  ISTR that Postfix does the checks in the order specified,
so they might be done multiple times.  That doesn't seem useful. :-(

Ruben Safir writes:
 > On 02/29/2016 01:42 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
 > > dig  gnutelephony.org
 > 
 > that does hang.  These are OLD mailing lists and it is hard to be
 > responsible for 20 years of DNS errors by organizations I have no
 > control over.

You don't have to.  Mailman will do that for you if you have bounce
processing turned on and configured appropriately.  But looking at the
rejected bogus addresses[1] in your Postfix log suggests to me that
you may have been targeted by spammers who are trying to harvest
addresses from your mailflow.  It's quite possible that those were
added very recently (within days) by botnets, or that your bounce
processing isn't configured appropriately for the traffic you're
getting.  If the latter, the bogus addresses could have been there for
a long time.

Like Carl, I recommend cleaning up your lists.  To get one cleaned
quickly, if you don't have the time to do it by hand, Mailman can do a
pretty good job automatically.  Go to the administration interface for
each list, select bounce processing, and set

    bounce_processing = Yes                         # Yes
    bounce_score_threshold = 0                      # 5.0
    bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 1            # 3
    bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 1   # 7
    bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = No             # Yes
    bounce_notify_owner_on_removal = No             # Yes

    Values at the end of the line are defaults.

and wait a day or two (I'm assuming you have traffic on each list
daily, if not, send a test message each day).  After the first day,
all the bogus addresses (and most likely a few valid ones) will be
disabled, and no mail will be sent to them, so Postfix will do no DNS
lookups for them.

After the second day, they'll be gone and you'll have clean lists.
You may also have some irate ex-subscribers[2]; if you care about
that, adjust the number of disabled warnings and the disabled warnings
interval upward to give them a better chance to respond that they're
real.  2 and 2 should do, but you'll have to wait a week for the lists
to be actually cleaned.  And some will ignore the warnings or not
receive them and get unsubscribed -- if you care about that, you have
to do it by hand.

After that, you should go through and reenable any real subscribers
who got disabled.  And you probably want to set the values back to
something closer to the defaults.  The defaults should be enough to
clean out any invalid addresses that "just happen" to get added within
a couple weeks.  If having done this, you get infested with several
invalid addresses quickly, you probably should tighten up the
subscription policy. :-(

If you have a lot of lists, it's possible to write scripts to do this
kind of configuration automatically for a list of lists, but I haven't
done it so can't help out beyond saying it can be done.

Footnotes: 
[1]  Yes, gnutelephony.org looks like it's probably something that was
alive and died because it got no love, but check out the others to see
what I mean.

[2]  Mail really is quite unreliable.  Occasionally you do run into an
"undeliverable" result for a perfectly good address.  If that happens
to a subscriber, they'll get a bounce, and with the aggressive
settings I propose, they get disabled immediately, and unsubscribed if
it happens again the next day.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Feb 29 04:17:25 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 18:17:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D3F0F6.6020307@msapiro.net>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D3E5D7.2070609@panix.com> <56D3E67C.2070704@msapiro.net>
 <56D3EA72.1080200@panix.com> <56D3F0F6.6020307@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <22228.3237.267639.539045@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > This is almost certainly your problem. All those [RBL] checks take
 > time, especially if DNS is slow.

Also, several of the checks (RBL and otherwise) seem to be in there
repeatedly.  ISTR that Postfix does the checks in the order specified,
so they might be done multiple times.  That doesn't seem useful. :-(

Ruben Safir writes:
 > On 02/29/2016 01:42 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
 > > dig  gnutelephony.org
 > 
 > that does hang.  These are OLD mailing lists and it is hard to be
 > responsible for 20 years of DNS errors by organizations I have no
 > control over.

You don't have to.  Mailman will do that for you if you have bounce
processing turned on and configured appropriately.  But looking at the
rejected bogus addresses[1] in your Postfix log suggests to me that
you may have been targeted by spammers who are trying to harvest
addresses from your mailflow.  It's quite possible that those were
added very recently (within days) by botnets, or that your bounce
processing isn't configured appropriately for the traffic you're
getting.  If the latter, the bogus addresses could have been there for
a long time.

Like Carl, I recommend cleaning up your lists.  To get one cleaned
quickly, if you don't have the time to do it by hand, Mailman can do a
pretty good job automatically.  Go to the administration interface for
each list, select bounce processing, and set

    bounce_processing = Yes                         # Yes
    bounce_score_threshold = 0.1                    # 5.0
    bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 1            # 3
    bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 1   # 7
    bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = No             # Yes
    bounce_notify_owner_on_removal = No             # Yes

    Values at the end of the line are defaults.

and wait a day or two (I'm assuming you have traffic on each list
daily, if not, send a test message each day).  After the first day,
all the bogus addresses (and most likely a few valid ones) will be
disabled, and no mail will be sent to them, so Postfix will do no DNS
lookups for them.  After the second day, they'll be gone and you'll
have clean lists.

You may also have some irate ex-subscribers[2]; if you care about
that, adjust the number of disabled warnings and the disabled warnings
interval upward to give them a better chance to respond that they're
real.  2 and 2 should do, but you'll have to wait a week for the lists
to be actually cleaned.  And some will ignore the warnings or not
receive them and get unsubscribed -- if you care about that, you have
to do it by hand.

After that, you should go through and reenable any real subscribers
who got disabled.  And you probably want to set the values back to
something closer to the defaults.  The defaults should be enough to
clean out any invalid addresses that "just happen" to get added within
a couple weeks.  If having done this, you get infested with several
invalid addresses quickly, you probably should tighten up the
subscription policy. :-(

If you have a lot of lists, it's possible to write scripts to do this
kind of configuration automatically for a list of lists, but I haven't
done it so can't help out beyond saying it can be done.

Footnotes: 
[1]  Yes, gnutelephony.org looks like it's probably something killed
because it got no love, but check out the others to see what I mean.

[2]  Mail really is quite unreliable.  Occasionally you do run into an
"undeliverable" result for a perfectly good address.  If that happens
to a subscriber, they'll get a bounce, and with the aggressive
settings I propose, they get disabled immediately, and unsubscribed if
it happens again the next day.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Feb 29 04:19:04 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 18:19:04 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <201602290808.u1T88ToM014615@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <201602290808.u1T88ToM014615@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <22228.3336.87906.866320@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Thanks for the suggestions, Hank!

Hank van Cleef writes:

 > From looking at your Postfix logs, it looks as though you have a major
 > DNS problem.  I suggest that you install bind and set up a caching DNS
 > server on the same box that is running Mailman.

Good idea, but I suspect that wouldn't help enough, as the test I did
on gnutelephony.org timed out.  You don't cache a timeout, you retry
(or if you're human, you curse the spammers and remove the address).
That was at home, now, with a university-grade network connection, I'm
getting NXDOMAIN.  It takes ~10s (middle of 3), though, which is a
pretty substantial delay.[1]

Also, IIRC, most modern Linux distros already do have a cache in the
libc resolver code anyway.  I don't know if it's big enough to handle
Mailman-sized request floods, though.


Footnotes: 
[1]  I wonder if the root nameservers are getting hammered?


From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Mon Feb 29 05:13:57 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 05:13:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <22228.3336.87906.866320@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <201602290808.u1T88ToM014615@julie.lostwells.net>
 <22228.3336.87906.866320@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <56D419E5.9030506@panix.com>

On 02/29/2016 04:19 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>  > From looking at your Postfix logs, it looks as though you have a major
>  > DNS problem.  I suggest that you install bind and set up a caching DNS
>  > server on the same box that is running Mailman.
> 
> Good idea, but I suspect that wouldn't help enough, as the test I did
> on gnutelephony.org timed out.  You don't cache a timeout, you retry
> (or if you're human, you curse the spammers and remove the address).
> That was at home, now, with a university-grade network connection, I'm
> getting NXDOMAIN.  It takes ~10s (middle of 3), though, which is a
> pretty substantial delay.[1]


bind is running on the server and is the primary DNS and has been for a
little over a decade?

Bind and the DNS can handle the workflow, or it has since 1998.  I don't
believe it handles a single connection at a time...

and neither does postfix.  I'll try to run everything on 12.0.0.1 8000
like was recommended, but truly it doesn't make sense to me that any of
these things should cause such a slowdown.  Postfix used to handle
nearly 500 simultaneous outbound requests with no problem, regardless
how many bad email addresses are present.  failure is PART of email, and
not an exceptional occurrence.


-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From weif at weif.net  Mon Feb 29 10:44:42 2016
From: weif at weif.net (Keith Seyffarth)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 08:44:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D3EF4F.2050002@tuunq.com> (message from Carl Zwanzig on Sun,
 28 Feb 2016 23:12:15 -0800)
Message-ID: <84vb57wmfp.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>


<snip>

> I would run through the logs to find all the domains that are timing out on 
> dns, then mark the recipients on those domains as "no mail". After that, see 
> how delivery goes for the rest of them. Besides, why keep users on the list 
> than don't exist or actually get delivery?

Shouldn't mailman (or any good mailing list server) be automatically
removing bouncing addresses? I can see that if the old mailing lists
weren't that advanced that you could have 20 years of buildup of bad
addresses, but shouldn't mailman have unsubscribed these addresses after
6 months of bouncing? I know on the several mailing lists I administer
that bad addresses get auto-unsubscribed.

And, if there are that many bad/bouncing addresses on the list in
question, how many honeypots are out there flagging this sender as a bad
sender and harming the listserv, or possibly the whole domain or IP as
being a problem sender?

> Oh, and -nothing- involved in email handling is "real time", which has a 
> fairly specific meaning in computing. *All* email is queued at least a 
> couple of times along the way and delivered as those systems get around to 
> it. Often that's within seconds, but not always. I'm on some lists with 100s 
> of users, and it's not uncommon for a message to take an hour to get to 
> everyone.

Definitely. It is important for people who are using email at all
professionally to understand that email delivery is *NOT* instantaneous
despite appearances. And that email delivery regularly takes a few
minutes to an hour, but can, under absolutely normal circumstances, take
3 or 4 days. And that the US Government has legislation that defines
normal email delivery to be within 30 days (yes, a whole month)...



-- 
----
from my mac to yours...

Keith Seyffarth
mailto:weif at weif.net
http://www.weif.net/ - Home of the First Tank Guide!
http://www.rpgcalendar.net/ - the Montana Role-Playing Calendar
----
http://www.miscon.org/ - Montana's Longest Running Science Fiction Convention

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Mon Feb 29 10:57:38 2016
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:57:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <84vb57wmfp.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>
References: <84vb57wmfp.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>
Message-ID: <56D46A72.7010603@panix.com>

On 02/29/2016 10:44 AM, Keith Seyffarth wrote:
>  how many honeypots are out there flagging this sender as a bad
> sender and harming the listserv, or possibly the whole domain or IP as
> being a problem sender?


there are no honey pots.  Most of the email addresses have been on the
lists for a decade or more.  Almost no additions have been made, and
most of the address are people I've shook hands with.

gnutelephony, for example, is David Sugar.  Brilliant coder.

-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Feb 29 11:34:16 2016
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 08:34:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speed up mailman
In-Reply-To: <56D3F0F6.6020307@msapiro.net>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D3E5D7.2070609@panix.com> <56D3E67C.2070704@msapiro.net>
 <56D3EA72.1080200@panix.com> <56D3F0F6.6020307@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56D47308.6010809@tuunq.com>

On 2/28/2016 11:19 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 02/28/2016 10:51 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
>> smtpd_recipient_restrictions = check_client_access
>> hash:/etc/postfix/helo_client_exceptions check_sender_access
>> hash:/etc/postfix/sender_checks, reject_invalid_hostname,
[...]

> This is almost certainly your problem. All those checks take time,
> especially if DNS is slow.

All this suggests an overly-complex email setup. If the goal is spam 
rejection, consider using spam-assassin or even pipe the email through on of 
the paid on-line services; don't use the postfix address filters for this. 
You'll find all manner of docs online describing how to set this up.


As in any discovery effort- it it was "working well" and isn't any more, 
what changed?


Is your internet connection classed as residential or business? The former 
can have all manner of semi-secret filter/throttling applied.


Is your DNS forwarding to the cable company's server(s) or another, such as 
google (8.8.8.8)? When I had cable internet, the local servers were terrible 
and -their- support eventually suggested I use that company's DNS in another 
region and gave me those addresses.

Oh, did you do any of the simple tests like look at the timing when you 
manually send to some of the failing addresses? (I don't recall seeing this 
mentioned.)

Later,

z!


From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Feb 29 11:57:13 2016
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 08:57:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Real time?
In-Reply-To: <56D3F310.8050709@panix.com>
References: <56D29A67.3000101@panix.com>
 <22226.46092.488238.406732@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D31253.3060303@panix.com> <56D32F6D.3070904@msapiro.net>
 <22227.14886.326352.776182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D35F3E.2070405@libertytrek.org> <56D36E29.6040207@panix.com>
 <22227.46392.874261.150316@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D3E873.9000904@panix.com> <56D3EB05.8030508@panix.com>
 <56D3EF4F.2050002@tuunq.com> <56D3F310.8050709@panix.com>
Message-ID: <56D47869.3060400@tuunq.com>

[changed the subject, I don't intend to carry this topic any further]

On 2/28/2016 11:28 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> On 02/29/2016 02:12 AM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
>> Oh, and -nothing- involved in email handling is "real time", which has a
>> fairly specific meaning in computing.

> Use whatever terminology you wish.  RT is a scheduler term, but it has
> meaning outside of that.  I can't have mailing list mail waiting for an
> hour to reach users.  It kills the flow of discussion.

Email is not, and never has been, "real time" in any use of the term as 
applied to computing. Granted, we're not talking about calculating machine 
control parameters in precise 20ms windows, but as multiple people have 
said, email is always going to store and forward which is not RT- it might 
take seconds or it might take hours. This doesn't kill the discussion on a 
great many lists out there, some with 1000s of users. (Some think this is a 
feature, not a bug, in that writers are likely to spend more time crafting 
their response. This particular message has taken about 30 minutes elapsed 
time to write. Anyway, it's you list, not mine.)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_computing
"In computer science, real-time computing (RTC), or reactive computing 
describes hardware and software systems subject to a "real-time constraint", 
for example from event to system response."

'The term "near real-time" or "nearly real-time" (NRT), in 
telecommunications and computing, refers to the time delay introduced, by 
automated data processing or network transmission, between the occurrence of 
an event and the use of the processed data, such as for display or feedback 
and control purposes. For example, a near-real-time display depicts an event 
or situation as it existed at the current time minus the processing time, as 
nearly the time of the live event."

Another definition says "the actual time during which a process takes place 
or an event occurs." And if that process takes an hour with no added delays, 
that's still "in real time".


If you really need practically immediate communication, then one of the 
various chat systems might be a better solution. If you want to use email 
and not hassle about the configs, you might also consider one other hosted 
(and paid) mailman services. See the FAQ on that.


z!


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 29 12:54:19 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 09:54:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing -WAS a different thread
 entirely
In-Reply-To: <84vb57wmfp.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>
References: <84vb57wmfp.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>
Message-ID: <56D485CB.3010900@msapiro.net>

On 02/29/2016 07:44 AM, Keith Seyffarth wrote:
> 
> Shouldn't mailman (or any good mailing list server) be automatically
> removing bouncing addresses?


Mailman is very good at this IF it is properly configured. There are
list settings under control of the list admin. The defaults are
reasonable for lists that moderate to high traffic volumes but probably
need to be tuned for low volume lists.

Also, the site can enable VERP like envelope senders for better bounce
recognition, although the standard and heuristic recognizers are pretty
good.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From weif at weif.net  Mon Feb 29 15:48:40 2016
From: weif at weif.net (Keith Seyffarth)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 13:48:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing -WAS a different thread
 entirely
In-Reply-To: <56D485CB.3010900@msapiro.net> (message from Mark Sapiro on Mon,
 29 Feb 2016 09:54:19 -0800)
Message-ID: <84k2lntf87.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>


>> Shouldn't mailman (or any good mailing list server) be automatically
>> removing bouncing addresses?
>
>
> Mailman is very good at this IF it is properly configured. There are
> list settings under control of the list admin. The defaults are
> reasonable for lists that moderate to high traffic volumes but probably
> need to be tuned for low volume lists.

I haven't had any problems with my many low-volume lists correctly
removing dead addresses - as long as the receiving MTA is not configured
to not bounce undeliverable mail properly...

Keith

-- 
----
from my mac to yours...

Keith Seyffarth
mailto:weif at weif.net
http://www.weif.net/ - Home of the First Tank Guide!
http://www.rpgcalendar.net/ - the Montana Role-Playing Calendar
----
http://www.miscon.org/ - Montana's Longest Running Science Fiction Convention

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 29 16:20:38 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 13:20:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <84k2lntf87.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>
References: <84k2lntf87.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>
Message-ID: <56D4B626.6080505@msapiro.net>

On 02/29/2016 12:48 PM, Keith Seyffarth wrote:
> 
> I haven't had any problems with my many low-volume lists correctly
> removing dead addresses - as long as the receiving MTA is not configured
> to not bounce undeliverable mail properly...


It depends on the list and settings. The defaults are
bounce_score_threshold = 5 and bounce_info_stale_after = 7. This means a
user's delivery won't be disabled by bounce until the list has received
bounces on 5 separate days with no more than 7 days between bounces.
With these settings, a list which receives posts on average less than
one day a week, will never see anyone's delivery disabled by bounce or
removed by bounce processing.

For low volume lists, a lower threshold and a longer
bounce_info_stale_after are often more appropriate.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From malsburg at posteo.de  Mon Feb 29 18:53:26 2016
From: malsburg at posteo.de (Titus von der Malsburg)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 15:53:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting emails with certain types of attachments
Message-ID: <87d1rfaxah.fsf@posteo.de>


Hi list,

is it possible to automatically reject emails that have attachments with
certain MIME types (e.g., application/msword, ?)?

Since there are so many types of files that are unsafe, I also wonder
whether it is possible to specify a white list of safe MIME types (e.g.,
application/PDF) and to reject everything else.  Is that possible?

I did some searching but only found solutions for automatically
stripping attachments, which is not what I want.

Thank you,

  Titus
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From harrison at utm.edu  Mon Feb 29 14:25:21 2016
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:25:21 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] IT Services Awareness Alert] Another Phishing Email
 Circulating
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B201B208E6FC@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>


Campus Community:

There is another interesting Phishing Email circulating on campus.  I have included the email below.  Please notice the "From:" address as it is not from the UT Martin Helpdesk or anyone on our campus.  Please just delete the email and don't click where it says "Click Here".  (I have removed the hyperlinks from the message below)

If you received the email and clicked on the link, please give the helpdesk a call at 7900 as soon as you can - and remember, the UT Martin Helpdesk will never ask you to send your password over email.

Thanks!
Information Technology Services