From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Mon Jun  1 13:49:24 2015
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2015 07:49:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: [Mailman] Cron <mailman@dap002>
 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -r get_bounce_info cufsalumni|mail -s
 "cufsalumni List Bounce Report" dap1@bellsouth.net
In-Reply-To: <20150601040008.6FE4C180056@dap002.localdomain>
References: <20150601040008.6FE4C180056@dap002.localdomain>
Message-ID: <556C46C4.6020508@bellsouth.net>

I get this traceback when I do bounce processing via cron (see subject
line). Is this something I need to worry about? It seems to be working
in spite of this error. Although perhaps it is only partially working
and I am just unaware of what part has failed.


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	[Mailman] Cron <mailman at dap002> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist
-r get_bounce_info cufsalumni|mail -s "cufsalumni List Bounce Report"
dap1 at bellsouth.net
Date: 	Mon, 1 Jun 2015 00:00:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: 	(Cron Daemon) <dap1 at bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: 	dap1 at bellsouth.net
To: 	dap1 at bellsouth.net



Importing get_bounce_info...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 302, in <module>
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 270, in main
    __import__(module)
ImportError: No module named get_bounce_info
Null message body; hope that's ok
_______________________________________________
Mailman mailing list
Mailman at bellsouth.net
https://dap002.dyndns-ip.com/mailman/listinfo/mailman



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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun  1 17:24:18 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2015 08:24:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: [Mailman] Cron <mailman@dap002>
 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -r get_bounce_info cufsalumni|mail -s
 "cufsalumni List Bounce Report" dap1@bellsouth.net
In-Reply-To: <556C46C4.6020508@bellsouth.net>
References: <20150601040008.6FE4C180056@dap002.localdomain>
 <556C46C4.6020508@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <556C7922.7040507@msapiro.net>

On 06/01/2015 04:49 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
> I get this traceback when I do bounce processing via cron (see subject
> line). Is this something I need to worry about? It seems to be working
> in spite of this error. Although perhaps it is only partially working
> and I am just unaware of what part has failed.


I don't know what you mean by "seems to be working", but this traceback

...
> Importing get_bounce_info...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 302, in <module>
>     main()
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 270, in main
>     __import__(module)
> ImportError: No module named get_bounce_info

says you haven't obtained the get_bounce_info.py script from
<https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/get_bounce_info.py> or
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/get_bounce_info.py> and saved it
as /usr/lib/mailman/bin/get_bounce_info.py

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Mon Jun  1 17:58:56 2015
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2015 11:58:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: [Mailman] Cron <mailman@dap002>
 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -r get_bounce_info cufsalumni|mail -s
 "cufsalumni List Bounce Report" dap1@bellsouth.net
In-Reply-To: <556C7922.7040507@msapiro.net>
References: <20150601040008.6FE4C180056@dap002.localdomain>
 <556C46C4.6020508@bellsouth.net> <556C7922.7040507@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <556C8140.9010400@bellsouth.net>

On 6/1/2015 11:24 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/01/2015 04:49 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
>> I get this traceback when I do bounce processing via cron (see subject
>> line). Is this something I need to worry about? It seems to be working
>> in spite of this error. Although perhaps it is only partially working
>> and I am just unaware of what part has failed.
>
> I don't know what you mean by "seems to be working", but this traceback
>
> ...
>> Importing get_bounce_info...
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 302, in <module>
>>     main()
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 270, in main
>>     __import__(module)
>> ImportError: No module named get_bounce_info
> says you haven't obtained the get_bounce_info.py script from
> <https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/get_bounce_info.py> or
> <http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/get_bounce_info.py> and saved it
> as /usr/lib/mailman/bin/get_bounce_info.py
>
>
>
Hi Mark,

Thanks for the reply. I mean, I get the expected output generated by my
cron job. Or at least I get some of it.

Somehow I missed that step. I guess when I migrated to CentOS 7, I
expected it to be part of the install and really didn't look at the
issue until now. I was busy putting out too many other fires introduced
by the upgrade.
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From gaja.php at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 08:13:48 2015
From: gaja.php at gmail.com (Selva Gaja)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 11:43:48 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] View the Private mail lists from UI
Message-ID: <CAAzGjDQPEi4=OEwtzfS1jm9pLi8O4V1k8ta8+RW7G2jmFOeXSA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

How can I view the Private mail lists from UI.

I can view the lists from command line using *list_lists *command.

But I need to view from UI also. Is there any authentication needed?

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Thanks and Regards,
Selva Gajendran.S

From camelia.botez at weizmann.ac.il  Tue Jun  2 13:50:09 2015
From: camelia.botez at weizmann.ac.il (Camelia Botez)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 11:50:09 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bouncing process does not return messages on user
	unknown
Message-ID: <74B33B2DD6D2A148967C7ECBEBF842CF011311BF99@IBWMBX02>

We run mailman-2.1.17 on rhel6 platform.
I have a list containing some unknown users.
When a messages is sent to this list , none of the administrators gets back a message of unknown user .
The bounce does not send back the status of the message ( diferred , unknown user etc).
How can I fix this?

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  3 04:53:46 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2015 19:53:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] View the Private mail lists from UI
In-Reply-To: <CAAzGjDQPEi4=OEwtzfS1jm9pLi8O4V1k8ta8+RW7G2jmFOeXSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAzGjDQPEi4=OEwtzfS1jm9pLi8O4V1k8ta8+RW7G2jmFOeXSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <556E6C3A.90801@msapiro.net>

On 06/01/2015 11:13 PM, Selva Gaja wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> How can I view the Private mail lists from UI.


You can't. That's what advertised = No means.


> But I need to view from UI also. Is there any authentication needed?


If you don't want them 'advertised', they aren't visible in the web UI
unless you go to them by their names.

If you could view them without authentication, then anyone could and
they wouldn't be 'private' (advertised = No).

I suppose there could be an authentication requiring the site password
(for various reasons, it couldn't be a list admin password) on the admin
and listinfo overview pages to see 'all' lists, but there is not such a
feature.

If you have sufficient access to the server, you could create your own
web page to display the results of list_lists. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/4030648> for info on doing these kinds of things.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  3 05:02:15 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2015 20:02:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bouncing process does not return messages on
 user unknown
In-Reply-To: <74B33B2DD6D2A148967C7ECBEBF842CF011311BF99@IBWMBX02>
References: <74B33B2DD6D2A148967C7ECBEBF842CF011311BF99@IBWMBX02>
Message-ID: <556E6E37.1050005@msapiro.net>

On 06/02/2015 04:50 AM, Camelia Botez wrote:
> We run mailman-2.1.17 on rhel6 platform.
> I have a list containing some unknown users.
> When a messages is sent to this list , none of the administrators gets back a message of unknown user .
> The bounce does not send back the status of the message ( diferred , unknown user etc).
> How can I fix this?


See the list's web admin Bounce processing page. Also see Mailman's
'bounce' log.

Bounces are returned to Mailman. If the list's bounce_processing setting
is No, they are ignored. If Yes, they are handled according to the
remaining settings. List owners are not notified until a members bounce
score reaches bounce_score_threshold and the member's delivery is
disabled, and then only if bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes
	
Beginning in 2.1.19, a list admin can request notification any time a
member's score is incremented.

These admin notices contain a copy of the triggering bounce.	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  3 06:25:16 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2015 21:25:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian jessie - apache2.4.
In-Reply-To: <20150529124245.202afbd2.akgul@bilkent.edu.tr>
References: <20150529124245.202afbd2.akgul@bilkent.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <556E81AC.8000101@msapiro.net>

On 05/29/2015 02:42 AM, Mustafa Akgul wrote:
> 
> I have debian jessie running apache2                     2.4.10-10 , mailman                     1:2.1.18-2 and
> postfix                     2.11.3-1
> I have  difficulty i  mailman-apache interface.
> I was running on debian7 and apache2.2 nicely.
> I took mailman, apache.conf, modified  allow,deny  setting
> 
> http://filiz.inet-tr.org.tr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
> ask what to do with listinfo
> 
> http://filiz.inet-tr.org.tr/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/edu-net
> I got
> The requested URL /cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/edu-net was not found on this server


As of now, both URLs work for me. Do you still have an issue or did you
solve it?


> mailman.conf in apache sites-enabled is:
> 
> ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
> Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
> Alias /images/mailman/ /usr/share/images/mailman/
> 
> <Directory /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/>
>     AllowOverride None
>     Options ExecCGI
> #    AddHandler cgi-script .cgi
>     Require all granted
> </Directory>
> <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/>
>     Options FollowSymlinks
>     AllowOverride None
>     Require all granted
> </Directory>
> <Directory /usr/share/images/mailman/>
>     AllowOverride None
>     Require all granted
> </Directory>
> 
> <VirtualHost *:80>
> ServerName liste.inet-tr.org.tr
> ServerAlias filiz.inet-tr.org.tr
> DocumentRoot /var/www/web
> ErrorLog /var/log/apache2/liste-error.log
> CustomLog /var/log/apache2/liste-access.log combined
> 
> <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/>
>     Options FollowSymLinks
>     AllowOverride None
> </Directory>
> 
> ----
> Any suggestion ?


Looks OK and seems to work. If you still have an issue, I don't know
what it would be.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From camelia.botez at weizmann.ac.il  Wed Jun  3 09:33:40 2015
From: camelia.botez at weizmann.ac.il (Camelia Botez)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 07:33:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bouncing process does not return messages on
 user unknown
In-Reply-To: <556E6E37.1050005@msapiro.net>
References: <74B33B2DD6D2A148967C7ECBEBF842CF011311BF99@IBWMBX02>
 <556E6E37.1050005@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <74B33B2DD6D2A148967C7ECBEBF842CF011311C5E3@IBWMBX02>

Thank you very much - indeed I checked and all the settings for bound process are OK.
I checked also the maillog file for that particular mailing list and I saw different values for status:
Stat : Service unavailable
Stat : Deferred
There are several external relay servers with verify=FAIL
Or Recipient address rejected: Greylisted


How mailman gets this status values ( as hard in bounce process ) , should it send back error messages to the owner / sender  .
I'm sorry to disturb you with my questions but I'm very confused - how the mailing list gets back the errors and in what cases.

Again thank you

-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+camelia.botez=weizmann.ac.il at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 6:02 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] bouncing process does not return messages on user unknown

On 06/02/2015 04:50 AM, Camelia Botez wrote:
> We run mailman-2.1.17 on rhel6 platform.
> I have a list containing some unknown users.
> When a messages is sent to this list , none of the administrators gets back a message of unknown user .
> The bounce does not send back the status of the message ( diferred , unknown user etc).
> How can I fix this?


See the list's web admin Bounce processing page. Also see Mailman's 'bounce' log.

Bounces are returned to Mailman. If the list's bounce_processing setting is No, they are ignored. If Yes, they are handled according to the remaining settings. List owners are not notified until a members bounce score reaches bounce_score_threshold and the member's delivery is disabled, and then only if bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes
	
Beginning in 2.1.19, a list admin can request notification any time a member's score is incremented.

These admin notices contain a copy of the triggering bounce.	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/camelia.botez%40weizmann.ac.il

From akgul at Bilkent.EDU.TR  Wed Jun  3 11:07:53 2015
From: akgul at Bilkent.EDU.TR (Mustafa Akgul)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 12:07:53 +0300 (EET DST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian jessie - apache2.4.
In-Reply-To: <556E81AC.8000101@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <201506030907.t5397rOF018109@sakarya.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr>

> 
> On 05/29/2015 02:42 AM, Mustafa Akgul wrote:
> > 
> > I have debian jessie running apache2                     2.4.10-10 , mailman                     1:2.1.18-2 and
> > postfix                     2.11.3-1
> > I have  difficulty i  mailman-apache interface.
> > I was running on debian7 and apache2.2 nicely.
> > I took mailman, apache.conf, modified  allow,deny  setting
> > 
> > http://filiz.inet-tr.org.tr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
> > ask what to do with listinfo
> > 
> > http://filiz.inet-tr.org.tr/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/edu-net
> > I got
> > The requested URL /cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/edu-net was not found on this server
> 
> 
> As of now, both URLs work for me. Do you still have an issue or did you
> solve it?
> 
> 
I have solved it. mod.cgi  was missing.  After enabling it, it
works fine

Thanks
Mustafa Akgul

> > mailman.conf in apache sites-enabled is:
> > 
> > ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
> > Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
> > Alias /images/mailman/ /usr/share/images/mailman/
> > 
> > <Directory /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/>
> >     AllowOverride None
> >     Options ExecCGI
> > #    AddHandler cgi-script .cgi
> >     Require all granted
> > </Directory>
> > <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/>
> >     Options FollowSymlinks
> >     AllowOverride None
> >     Require all granted
> > </Directory>
> > <Directory /usr/share/images/mailman/>
> >     AllowOverride None
> >     Require all granted
> > </Directory>
> > 
> > <VirtualHost *:80>
> > ServerName liste.inet-tr.org.tr
> > ServerAlias filiz.inet-tr.org.tr
> > DocumentRoot /var/www/web
> > ErrorLog /var/log/apache2/liste-error.log
> > CustomLog /var/log/apache2/liste-access.log combined
> > 
> > <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/>
> >     Options FollowSymLinks
> >     AllowOverride None
> > </Directory>
> > 
> > ----
> > Any suggestion ?
> 
> 
> Looks OK and seems to work. If you still have an issue, I don't know
> what it would be.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/akgul%40bilkent.edu.tr
> 


From mneedham at hdfgroup.org  Wed Jun  3 15:35:37 2015
From: mneedham at hdfgroup.org (Matthew Needham)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 13:35:37 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] View the Private mail lists from UI
In-Reply-To: <556E6C3A.90801@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAzGjDQPEi4=OEwtzfS1jm9pLi8O4V1k8ta8+RW7G2jmFOeXSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <556E6C3A.90801@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <AEA25DDA-2AFB-4D36-9C6E-B373C51F61CC@hdfgroup.org>


> On Jun 2, 2015, at 21:53 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> 
> I suppose there could be an authentication requiring the site password
> (for various reasons, it couldn't be a list admin password) on the admin
> and listinfo overview pages to see 'all' lists, but there is not such a
> feature.

Although my Mailman install is is currently part of CPanel, so I don't need such a feature, it does seem like it would be useful. Does this sort of functionality exist in Mailman 3?



-- 

Matthew Needham
mneedham at hdfgroup.org
217-531-6110

The HDF Group
1800 South Oak Street, Suite 203
Champaign, IL 61820


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Wed Jun  3 16:23:32 2015
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 15:23:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] View the Private mail lists from UI
In-Reply-To: <556E6C3A.90801@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAzGjDQPEi4=OEwtzfS1jm9pLi8O4V1k8ta8+RW7G2jmFOeXSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <556E6C3A.90801@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20150603142332.GY9573@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 07:53:46PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I suppose there could be an authentication requiring the site password
> (for various reasons, it couldn't be a list admin password) on the admin
> and listinfo overview pages to see 'all' lists, but there is not such a
> feature.
> 
> If you have sufficient access to the server, you could create your own
> web page to display the results of list_lists. See the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/4030648> for info on doing these kinds of things.

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-June/069783.html
(from the archives) is quite a nice approach, too.

-- 
"Of course we are not patronising women. We are just going to explain to
  them, in words of one syllable, what it is all about."
    -- Olga Maitland

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  3 21:33:13 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2015 12:33:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bouncing process does not return messages on
 user unknown
In-Reply-To: <74B33B2DD6D2A148967C7ECBEBF842CF011311C5E3@IBWMBX02>
References: <74B33B2DD6D2A148967C7ECBEBF842CF011311BF99@IBWMBX02>
 <556E6E37.1050005@msapiro.net>
 <74B33B2DD6D2A148967C7ECBEBF842CF011311C5E3@IBWMBX02>
Message-ID: <556F5679.6050504@msapiro.net>

On 06/03/2015 12:33 AM, Camelia Botez wrote:
> Thank you very much - indeed I checked and all the settings for bound process are OK.
> I checked also the maillog file for that particular mailing list and I saw different values for status:
> Stat : Service unavailable
> Stat : Deferred
> There are several external relay servers with verify=FAIL
> Or Recipient address rejected: Greylisted
> 
> 
> How mailman gets this status values ( as hard in bounce process ) , should it send back error messages to the owner / sender  .
> I'm sorry to disturb you with my questions but I'm very confused - how the mailing list gets back the errors and in what cases.


Mailman gets bounces in two ways.

1) If Mailman gets an SMTP recipient refused response to a recipient
during its SMTP transaction, this is logged in Mailman's 'smtp-failure'
log and a bounce recorded if the list is processing bounces.

2) For the kinds of things you are seeing in your MTA log, Mailman has
sent the message with envelope from LISTNAME-bounces at list.domain, or if
VERPed, from LISTNAME-bounces+recipient_user=users.domain at list.domain.

The MTA will send a DSN to that address and assuming it is deliverable,
Mailman will receive it and record a bounce if the list is processing
bounces.

In either case, a recorded bounce is logged in Mailman's bounce log and
scored. The DSN itself is discarded after processing unless it results
in a disable and bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes in which case it
is attached to the notice to the admin.

Look at Mailman's 'bounce' log. If bounces are not being recorded,
ensure that the list's Bounce processing -> bounce_processing setting is
Yes and that the LISTNAME-bounces address is deliverable (you should see
the delivery of the DSN to Mailman in your MTA logs.

Note that for messages which are 'Deferred', they have to time out in
the MTA before Mailman receives an undeliverable notice. This typically
takes up to 5 days depending on the MTA configuration.

Greylisting is also a temporary failure in the MTA and normally the
message will be retried and accepted upon retry. This is not a bounce.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  3 22:16:04 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2015 13:16:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some pages are only partially translated - most
 still show part of page in English
In-Reply-To: <959c9c5a296b4c4486eb786924ff89cc@MBS03.adsroot.uts.edu.au>
References: <55651ED0.1030609@uts.edu.au>, <5565BD03.4060807@msapiro.net>
 <959c9c5a296b4c4486eb786924ff89cc@MBS03.adsroot.uts.edu.au>
Message-ID: <556F6084.7090904@msapiro.net>

On 06/03/2015 03:26 AM, Michael Lake wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> Thanks Mark for your reply. I realise its all done by volunteers. Sorry I can't help on translations as I only know English, C, Fortran etc :-) 
> Im confused though as according to the link below many languages are fully translated. But if I select what ever language its always the same section that remains untranslated e.g.  I get "You may enter a privacy password below. etc ... " in English. Surely that phrase has been translated. If I pick Japanese which has been nearly fully translated I still get in the Subscribing section most of the text in English. Just the button label is translated. 
> https://translations.launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/+pots/mailman


First of all, the page you refer to was part of a project that was
started by a woman who subsequently had health issues and ultimately
died. What is there is based on message catalogs imported from Mailman
at some point and probably never updated since. There have been many
Mailman updates since then that affect translations, and some
translations have been partially or completely updated since following
guidelines/procedures at <http://wiki.list.org/DEV/i18nhowto>. None of
this is reflected at the translations.launchpad.net site.

Furthermore, the phrase "You may enter a privacy password below. etc ...
" is not in a string in the message catalog. It is in the listinfo.html
template. Every one of the 38 partially or fully supported translations
contains this translated template and none of them appear to contain
that phrase in English.

I suspect the issue in your case is that the templates for the various
translations are not installed on your server, so Mailman falls back to
the English template (the button labels are dynamic and do come from the
message catalog, but the bulk of the page comes from the template).

Does your Mailman installation have 39 'lc' subdirectories in (I think
in Debian) /usr/lib/mailman/templates/ or does it just have
/usr/lib/mailman/templates/en/.

Also, how about /usr/lib/mailman/messages/ (there normally is not an
'en' here)?

If I'm not mistaken, the Debian Mailman install process requires you to
specify the languages you want to support at install time. Try

dpkg-reconfigure mailman

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Mike.Lake at uts.edu.au  Thu Jun  4 04:03:28 2015
From: Mike.Lake at uts.edu.au (Michael Lake)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 12:03:28 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some pages are only partially translated - most
 still show part of page in English
In-Reply-To: <556F6084.7090904@msapiro.net>
References: <55651ED0.1030609@uts.edu.au>, <5565BD03.4060807@msapiro.net>
 <959c9c5a296b4c4486eb786924ff89cc@MBS03.adsroot.uts.edu.au>
 <556F6084.7090904@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <556FB1F0.3020206@uts.edu.au>

Hi

On 06/04/2015 06:16 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/03/2015 03:26 AM, Michael Lake wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
>> Thanks Mark for your reply. I realise its all done by volunteers. Sorry I can't help on translations as I only know English, C, Fortran etc :-)
>> Im confused though as according to the link below many languages are fully translated. But if I select what ever language its always the same section that remains untranslated e.g.  I get "You may enter a privacy password below. etc ... " in English. Surely that phrase has been translated. If I pick Japanese which has been nearly fully translated I still get in the Subscribing section most of the text in English. Just the button label is translated.
>> https://translations.launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/+pots/mailman
>
>
> First of all, the page you refer to was part of a project that was
> started by a woman who subsequently had health issues and ultimately
> died. What is there is based on message catalogs imported from Mailman
> at some point and probably never updated since. There have been many
> Mailman updates since then that affect translations, and some
> translations have been partially or completely updated since following
> guidelines/procedures at <http://wiki.list.org/DEV/i18nhowto>. None of
> this is reflected at the translations.launchpad.net site.
Thanks, now I understand.

> Furthermore, the phrase "You may enter a privacy password below. etc ...
> " is not in a string in the message catalog. It is in the listinfo.html
> template. Every one of the 38 partially or fully supported translations
> contains this translated template and none of them appear to contain
> that phrase in English.
>
> I suspect the issue in your case is that the templates for the various
> translations are not installed on your server, so Mailman falls back to
> the English template (the button labels are dynamic and do come from the
> message catalog, but the bulk of the page comes from the template).
>
> Does your Mailman installation have 39 'lc' subdirectories in (I think
> in Debian) /usr/lib/mailman/templates/ or does it just have
> /usr/lib/mailman/templates/en/.
Just en under /var/lib/mailman/templates/
No lc dirs.

> Also, how about /usr/lib/mailman/messages/ (there normally is not an
> 'en' here)?
Lots of language directories from ar to zh under /var/lib/mailman/messages/
No en directory.

> If I'm not mistaken, the Debian Mailman install process requires you to
> specify the languages you want to support at install time. Try
> dpkg-reconfigure mailman
Just did that and I selected all the langs that I wanted to support and 
it installed an additional few dozen languages. I had misunderstood that 
that initial setting was the languages you wanted *supported*  and the 
next question after that is the default language that you required.

Now selecting other languages show the whole page (except for the list 
description of course) fully translated :-)

So doing the "dpkg-reconfigure mailman" solved my problem.
Very much appreciated. Now the overseas users won't have to read 
Australian all the time :-)

Thanks for your help Mark

Mike
-- 
Michael Lake



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From ournet.biz at gmail.com  Thu Jun  4 17:05:40 2015
From: ournet.biz at gmail.com (EyeLand)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 18:05:40 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Default domain email not work
In-Reply-To: <5565E4F5.5020601@msapiro.net>
References: <CAOVpyh=qcnwxWNpqwhvsWBe1aXaJCEHAV8uMA_A=0OrF7WKapQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55649431.4000501@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyhnWE0xFvcz2r+r17QZ7GpwwzHyXfGCrpP0bySys3-pmkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55649C24.2010505@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyhnGWebSQTGnW-PfmV=u5NyF=Bk+e-10d_VX8gudph0h_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <5564B774.2010101@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyhm12Q+VnQfXxoAUjOnJ_=8kPsuUgkfmp05HURz5sJKpiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5564F244.7080309@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyhmq945BfLc2anVjCFuh0CvowQYmE8TS6TgwUtE8uAcxjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5565CA2F.2090508@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyh=x4gJBjAwMibWKJme2-63ovgfcQ45FrDRxwFL2+2-mBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5565E4F5.5020601@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAOVpyh=7693TTw04Rn0tmhEj1mE-MiRET6xcqjcMF91yDPQm6w@mail.gmail.com>

2015-05-27 18:38 GMT+03:00 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:

>
> The bug is fixed.
>

I not have a pro on Debian, can you write a step by step instruction for
resolve that issue with your recommendations?

From annette.carter at pacbell.net  Thu Jun  4 03:16:39 2015
From: annette.carter at pacbell.net (Annette Carter)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 18:16:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating lists from one host cPanel to another
Message-ID: <0DC1E6B088604C59817A340367958E75@DELLLAPTOP>

I manage several non-profits that use Mailman lists.  One of them may be moving their domain from HostGator to BlueHost, both having cPanels.  Can you direct me how I can migrate the lists from one to the other without having to build them from scratch? The domain will end up being the same, although I have a temporary name for the new one.
Thank you in advance.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  4 19:43:55 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2015 10:43:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Default domain email not work
In-Reply-To: <CAOVpyh=7693TTw04Rn0tmhEj1mE-MiRET6xcqjcMF91yDPQm6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOVpyh=qcnwxWNpqwhvsWBe1aXaJCEHAV8uMA_A=0OrF7WKapQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55649431.4000501@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyhnWE0xFvcz2r+r17QZ7GpwwzHyXfGCrpP0bySys3-pmkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55649C24.2010505@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyhnGWebSQTGnW-PfmV=u5NyF=Bk+e-10d_VX8gudph0h_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <5564B774.2010101@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyhm12Q+VnQfXxoAUjOnJ_=8kPsuUgkfmp05HURz5sJKpiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5564F244.7080309@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyhmq945BfLc2anVjCFuh0CvowQYmE8TS6TgwUtE8uAcxjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5565CA2F.2090508@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyh=x4gJBjAwMibWKJme2-63ovgfcQ45FrDRxwFL2+2-mBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5565E4F5.5020601@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyh=7693TTw04Rn0tmhEj1mE-MiRET6xcqjcMF91yDPQm6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55708E5B.1030404@msapiro.net>

On 06/04/2015 08:05 AM, EyeLand wrote:
> 2015-05-27 18:38 GMT+03:00 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net
> <mailto:mark at msapiro.net>>:
> 
> 
>     The bug is fixed.
> 
> 
> I not have a pro on Debian, can you write a step by step instruction for
> resolve that issue with your recommendations?


If you still have the message you quote above, there was a file
Postfix.py.patch.txt attached to that message.

Save that file somewhere and then run

patch /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py < /path/to/saved/file

where /path/to/saved/file is the actual path to the patch file you saved.

If for some reason, you don't have that patch file or have difficulty
with the 'patch' command, you can go to
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py>
and click the 'download file' link and then just copy the downloaded
file to /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py

After doing one or the other of the above, run Mailman's

bin/genaliases

to recreate the aliases and virtual mappings. You don't need to restart
Mailman before running bin/genaliases, but it won't hurt if you do.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  4 19:55:09 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2015 10:55:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating lists from one host cPanel to another
In-Reply-To: <0DC1E6B088604C59817A340367958E75@DELLLAPTOP>
References: <0DC1E6B088604C59817A340367958E75@DELLLAPTOP>
Message-ID: <557090FD.7000602@msapiro.net>

On 06/03/2015 06:16 PM, Annette Carter wrote:
> I manage several non-profits that use Mailman lists.  One of them may be moving their domain from HostGator to BlueHost, both having cPanels.  Can you direct me how I can migrate the lists from one to the other without having to build them from scratch? The domain will end up being the same, although I have a temporary name for the new one.


The process of moving a list from one server to another is normally
straightforward depending of the degree of access you have to the host
servers or the cooperation you can get from the hosting services. See
the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4030682> and posts linked therefrom
for descriptions.

This may or may not be complicated by the hosts using cPanel. The fact
that both ends are cPanel and the domain name (which is part of the
cPanel list name) is not changing will help. See also the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/4030641>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From annette.carter at pacbell.net  Fri Jun  5 07:54:13 2015
From: annette.carter at pacbell.net (Annette Carter)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 22:54:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating lists from one host cPanel to another
In-Reply-To: <557090FD.7000602@msapiro.net>
References: <0DC1E6B088604C59817A340367958E75@DELLLAPTOP>
 <557090FD.7000602@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <8BF7FBEF9C5F4AE7A0683ADFFCECE08C@DELLLAPTOP>

Thank you, Mark.  I didn't find anything in those resources exactly 
addressing moving from host to host, both using cPanels.  I'll try calling 
one of the hosting companies again and ask if they'd give me access to what 
I need, if possible.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2015 10:55 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] migrating lists from one host cPanel to another

On 06/03/2015 06:16 PM, Annette Carter wrote:
> I manage several non-profits that use Mailman lists.  One of them may be 
> moving their domain from HostGator to BlueHost, both having cPanels.  Can 
> you direct me how I can migrate the lists from one to the other without 
> having to build them from scratch? The domain will end up being the same, 
> although I have a temporary name for the new one.


The process of moving a list from one server to another is normally
straightforward depending of the degree of access you have to the host
servers or the cooperation you can get from the hosting services. See
the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4030682> and posts linked therefrom
for descriptions.

This may or may not be complicated by the hosts using cPanel. The fact
that both ends are cPanel and the domain name (which is part of the
cPanel list name) is not changing will help. See also the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/4030641>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/annette.carter%40pacbell.net 


From gaja.php at gmail.com  Fri Jun  5 14:11:54 2015
From: gaja.php at gmail.com (Selva Gaja)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 17:41:54 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Difference in admin page URL
Message-ID: <CAAzGjDRm4b1NBvsrPtmrL=B-iwSuOtm61GQua6-mpkPeo6r0pw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I have setup Mailman 2.1.14 <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html> in
my local machine.

And I am created the list name as *demo. *I can see the admin pages using
this URL, http://localhost/mailman/admin/demo

My server Mailman version is *2.1.20. *
When I see the list admin page using below URL
http://domain.com/mailman/admin/demo it's says No Such List. But I can view
the page When i give the URL like as
http://domain.com/mailman/admin/demo*_domain.com
<http://domain.com> (here I am added _domain.com <http://domain.com>)*

If I added my domain name in my local list(demo*_domain.com
<http://domain.com>)* its says No such list

Please clarify me, The version is making any differences? If I did any
mistake please give me the correct solutions.
How to do unique the list admin page URL?


-- 
Thanks
Selva

From rclemings at gmail.com  Fri Jun  5 15:57:16 2015
From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 06:57:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 136, Issue 5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.52.1433498403.24082.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.52.1433498403.24082.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAN7RX0YBoc4Uuw47VfAfsoY0frcKo=kM1yuC=qO8XgzsWrtvDw@mail.gmail.com>

There's a link within cPanel's WHM (WebHost Manager, under "Transfers") for
moving accounts between servers. I've never used it, but I would
suspect/hope that it will transfer the Mailman lists for you, as long as
you haven't modified the default installations.

On 06/03/2015 06:16 PM, Annette Carter wrote:
>
>> I manage several non-profits that use Mailman lists.  One of them may be
>> moving their domain from HostGator to BlueHost, both having cPanels.  Can
>> you direct me how I can migrate the lists from one to the other without
>> having to build them from scratch? The domain will end up being the same,
>> although I have a temporary name for the new one.
>>
>
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun  5 17:19:37 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2015 08:19:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Difference in admin page URL
In-Reply-To: <CAAzGjDRm4b1NBvsrPtmrL=B-iwSuOtm61GQua6-mpkPeo6r0pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAzGjDRm4b1NBvsrPtmrL=B-iwSuOtm61GQua6-mpkPeo6r0pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5571BE09.40200@msapiro.net>

On 06/05/2015 05:11 AM, Selva Gaja wrote:
> 
> Please clarify me, The version is making any differences? If I did any
> mistake please give me the correct solutions.


The difference is your server Mailman is cPanel (or possibly some other
downstream modified Mailman). cPanel appends '_domain' to the list name
in order to allow lists in different domains to have the same apparent name.


> How to do unique the list admin page URL?


If you want to access the admin pages on both machines with similar
URLs, you would need to create the list in your local machine with name
demo_domain, but then the email address of that list would be
demo_domain at ... and not demo at ... as it is in cPanel unless you did
something non-standard in your local MTA.

In short, cPanel has modified Mailman is ways that make it inconsistent
with an unmodified mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun  5 17:44:47 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2015 08:44:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating lists from one host cPanel to another
In-Reply-To: <8BF7FBEF9C5F4AE7A0683ADFFCECE08C@DELLLAPTOP>
References: <0DC1E6B088604C59817A340367958E75@DELLLAPTOP>
 <557090FD.7000602@msapiro.net> <8BF7FBEF9C5F4AE7A0683ADFFCECE08C@DELLLAPTOP>
Message-ID: <5571C3EF.8020106@msapiro.net>

On 06/04/2015 10:54 PM, Annette Carter wrote:
> Thank you, Mark.  I didn't find anything in those resources exactly
> addressing moving from host to host, both using cPanels.  I'll try
> calling one of the hosting companies again and ask if they'd give me
> access to what I need, if possible.


In case you missed it, see Russell Clemings' reply at
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2015-June/079265.html>
with Subject "Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 136, Issue 5".

This may be all you need. If not, note that in cPanel, the entire site's
Mailman installation is at /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/.
Assuming you just want to move the list's membership and settings and
the archives and aren't concerned about held messages, pending digests,
etc. what you need to move are the lists/NAME/config.pck file for
membership and settings and the archives/private/NAME/ and
archives/private/NAME.mbox/ directories for the archives where NAME is
the cPanel list_domain name. For pending digests, add
lists/NAME/digest.mbox, but it is probably easier to just use the
send_digest_now function in the list admin Digest options Section on the
old server to ensure there isn't a pending digest.

Also, in order to keep cPanel happy on the new server, it may or may not
be necessary to first create the list via cPanel on the new server and
then replace the above files and directories rather than just dropping
them in.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From annette.carter at pacbell.net  Sat Jun  6 04:52:12 2015
From: annette.carter at pacbell.net (Annette Carter)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 19:52:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating lists from one host cPanel to another
In-Reply-To: <5571C3EF.8020106@msapiro.net>
References: <0DC1E6B088604C59817A340367958E75@DELLLAPTOP>
 <557090FD.7000602@msapiro.net> <8BF7FBEF9C5F4AE7A0683ADFFCECE08C@DELLLAPTOP>
 <5571C3EF.8020106@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <85D175F020A245EE805FE6F0AB71EF00@DELLLAPTOP>

Thank you Mark and Russell.  Once I actually get the contract from the 
client I will have a good starting place.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 8:44 AM
To: Annette Carter ; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] migrating lists from one host cPanel to another

On 06/04/2015 10:54 PM, Annette Carter wrote:
> Thank you, Mark.  I didn't find anything in those resources exactly
> addressing moving from host to host, both using cPanels.  I'll try
> calling one of the hosting companies again and ask if they'd give me
> access to what I need, if possible.


In case you missed it, see Russell Clemings' reply at
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2015-June/079265.html>
with Subject "Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 136, Issue 5".

This may be all you need. If not, note that in cPanel, the entire site's
Mailman installation is at /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/.
Assuming you just want to move the list's membership and settings and
the archives and aren't concerned about held messages, pending digests,
etc. what you need to move are the lists/NAME/config.pck file for
membership and settings and the archives/private/NAME/ and
archives/private/NAME.mbox/ directories for the archives where NAME is
the cPanel list_domain name. For pending digests, add
lists/NAME/digest.mbox, but it is probably easier to just use the
send_digest_now function in the list admin Digest options Section on the
old server to ensure there isn't a pending digest.

Also, in order to keep cPanel happy on the new server, it may or may not
be necessary to first create the list via cPanel on the new server and
then replace the above files and directories rather than just dropping
them in.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan 


From jerry.barnabee at gmail.com  Fri Jun  5 18:04:54 2015
From: jerry.barnabee at gmail.com (Jerry Barnabee)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 11:04:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using cronjob to remove and add members to a
	mailing list
Message-ID: <78AAF570-3ABF-42FE-B715-B89BC64F7FB1@gmail.com>

I want to be able to run a cronjob on my server that uses a php script to add new users and/or remove users from a mailing list. Not having any luck finding any simple examples.  My thought is that the php script would get email addresses from a database (which I can do) and then feed them to a mailman command line to either add or remove a user. 

The cronjob is entered via Cpanel.  Have several cronjobs that modify databases but have never tried something that would actually execute a unix command.

Thanks,
Pineyscripter


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun  6 18:20:18 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2015 09:20:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using cronjob to remove and add members to a
 mailing list
In-Reply-To: <78AAF570-3ABF-42FE-B715-B89BC64F7FB1@gmail.com>
References: <78AAF570-3ABF-42FE-B715-B89BC64F7FB1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55731DC2.1060503@msapiro.net>

On 06/05/2015 09:04 AM, Jerry Barnabee wrote:
> I want to be able to run a cronjob on my server that uses a php script to add new users and/or remove users from a mailing list. Not having any luck finding any simple examples.  My thought is that the php script would get email addresses from a database (which I can do) and then feed them to a mailman command line to either add or remove a user. 


Mailman's sync_members command does exactly what you want. You would use
proc_open() in your php script to create pipes to and from the command,
then write the desired membership list one user per line in the form

"User's Name" <user at example.com>

to the command's input and read the output. The display name in the
above example is optional, but is used as the real_name attribute of a
user added by the command.


> The cronjob is entered via Cpanel.  Have several cronjobs that modify databases but have never tried something that would actually execute a unix command.


In cPanel, the command you want is
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/sync_members.

/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/sync_members -h

will give usage info. The actual command you'd run with proc_open() is

/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/sync_members -f - LISTNAME

where -f - says use stdin as the input and LISTNAME is the actual cPanel
list_domain list name. See the help for other options controlling
notices and whether or not to actually update the list or just report
(good for testing).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Mon Jun  8 19:25:22 2015
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 17:25:22 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide email address of specific sender
Message-ID: <DB5PR04MB1478E2AF9176781845E04B5CC5BF0@DB5PR04MB1478.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Hi,

I have had a request from a specific sender that their email address be hidden from postings (kinda like what the munging in the DMARC action does).  Is there a way to do this for this *one* member only?

Mailman 2.1.20 here.

Thanks.
Andrew.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun  8 21:12:52 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2015 12:12:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide email address of specific sender
In-Reply-To: <DB5PR04MB1478E2AF9176781845E04B5CC5BF0@DB5PR04MB1478.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DB5PR04MB1478E2AF9176781845E04B5CC5BF0@DB5PR04MB1478.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5575E934.4030605@msapiro.net>

On 06/08/2015 10:25 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
> 
> I have had a request from a specific sender that their email address be hidden from postings (kinda like what the munging in the DMARC action does).  Is there a way to do this for this *one* member only?


Mailman can't do it without some kludgy hack to the source. Also, Munge
>From actions take great pains to ensure that the original From: address
is exposed in either Reply-To: or Cc: depending on other list settings.

The user can do it herself. If the envelope sender (Unix From) or the
Sender: header (if any) of the message is a list member, the post will
be considered to be from a list member even if the From: address is not.
Both the envelope sender and Sender: header of the delivered post are
replaced with the list-bounces address, so the original contents are not
exposed to the list.

So, if she sends her post with headers like

To: the_list at ...
Sender: her_real_address at ...
From: the_list_or_some_bogus_address at ...

The post will be considered by Mailman to be from a member, and her
member address won't be exposed. Of course, she needs to use an MUA that
allows her to manipulate these headers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From finches at portadmiral.org  Mon Jun  8 21:20:03 2015
From: finches at portadmiral.org (Larry Finch)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:20:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide email address of specific sender
In-Reply-To: <5575E934.4030605@msapiro.net>
References: <DB5PR04MB1478E2AF9176781845E04B5CC5BF0@DB5PR04MB1478.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <5575E934.4030605@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <97D983DC-DCD6-45B2-93DC-DD2164EBD5AB@portadmiral.org>

Another option is to suggest to the member that they get a ?throwaway? email address just for the list. 

Regards,
Larry


> On Jun 8, 2015, at 3:12 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> 
> On 06/08/2015 10:25 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>> 
>> I have had a request from a specific sender that their email address be hidden from postings (kinda like what the munging in the DMARC action does).  Is there a way to do this for this *one* member only?
> 
> 
> Mailman can't do it without some kludgy hack to the source. Also, Munge
> From actions take great pains to ensure that the original From: address
> is exposed in either Reply-To: or Cc: depending on other list settings.
> 
> The user can do it herself. If the envelope sender (Unix From) or the
> Sender: header (if any) of the message is a list member, the post will
> be considered to be from a list member even if the From: address is not.
> Both the envelope sender and Sender: header of the delivered post are
> replaced with the list-bounces address, so the original contents are not
> exposed to the list.
> 
> So, if she sends her post with headers like
> 
> To: the_list at ...
> Sender: her_real_address at ...
> From: the_list_or_some_bogus_address at ...
> 
> The post will be considered by Mailman to be from a member, and her
> member address won't be exposed. Of course, she needs to use an MUA that
> allows her to manipulate these headers.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/finches%40portadmiral.org

--
Larry Finch
finches at portadmiral.org




From malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk  Mon Jun  8 21:24:59 2015
From: malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk (Malcolm Austen)
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2015 20:24:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide email address of specific sender
In-Reply-To: <DB5PR04MB1478E2AF9176781845E04B5CC5BF0@DB5PR04MB1478.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DB5PR04MB1478E2AF9176781845E04B5CC5BF0@DB5PR04MB1478.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <op.xzxevxh5g14ka7@mavivo.home>

On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 18:25:22 +0100, Andrew Hodgson  
<andrew at hodgsonfamily.org> wrote:

> I have had a request from a specific sender that their email address be  
> hidden from postings (kinda like what the munging in the DMARC action  
> does).  Is there a way to do this for this *one* member only?

Mark's solution is technically better but, for just one poster, might it  
be practical to solve the problem with two subscriptions? The 'proper'  
address can be used for receiving messages (and can be set moderated as a  
safeguard against exposing it) and the poster can use another  
address/account (a fake or maybe a dummy gmail account) set to 'nomail'  
for posting.

= Malcolm.

-- 
Malcolm Austen  <malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk>
GENUKI trustee  <genuki at weald.org.uk>
Pedigree User Group  <chairman at pugweb.org.uk>
Oxfordshire FHS  <webmaster at ofhs.org.uk>
FFHS Communications Officer  <communications at ffhs.org.uk>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Jun  9 06:55:37 2015
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2015 13:55:37 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide email address of specific sender
In-Reply-To: <5575E934.4030605@msapiro.net>
References: <DB5PR04MB1478E2AF9176781845E04B5CC5BF0@DB5PR04MB1478.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <5575E934.4030605@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <871thlxyye.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > To: the_list at ...
 > Sender: her_real_address at ...
 > From: the_list_or_some_bogus_address at ...

*Don't* recommend using a bogus address -- that requires skill on the
part of the user.  The list address is "known good", use that.

Problem example: if she's not at yahoo.com and uses a fake yahoo.com
address, DMARC will cause bounces from random users whose providers
respect p=reject.  Of course you can mitigate this, but it's just
*one* example, there are plenty of other ways this could go wrong, and
explaining the constraints to the user just isn't worth the effort.

Larry's answer (get a throwaway address) is the one that protects her
privacy best, though.  A sufficiently persistent attacker can probably
trace her through the authenticating IP, but that would be a lot of
effort.  Use of an alias (eg, AOL screen name) or the Sender header
probably exposes her "real" mailbox far too much for her comfort.

From pshute at nuw.org.au  Sat Jun 13 23:04:35 2015
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 07:04:35 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who sees "real names"?
Message-ID: <EB722C6E-A18E-456F-9EFE-05DEAFD2788B@nuw.org.au>

I've had a request to join our list under a false name. If I enter their real name in the Member Name field so I can tell who they are, who else can ever see that? The member controls the display name used in list messages, don't they?

Peter Shute

Sent from my iPad

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 14 01:49:25 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 16:49:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who sees "real names"?
In-Reply-To: <EB722C6E-A18E-456F-9EFE-05DEAFD2788B@nuw.org.au>
References: <EB722C6E-A18E-456F-9EFE-05DEAFD2788B@nuw.org.au>
Message-ID: <557CC185.2010308@msapiro.net>

On 06/13/2015 02:04 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
> I've had a request to join our list under a false name. If I enter their real name in the Member Name field so I can tell who they are, who else can ever see that? The member controls the display name used in list messages, don't they?

The member's real_name attribute can be exposed in various ways.

1) The results of the email who command
2) The web roster beginning in 2.1.19 if the site allows it
3) The display name in a Munge From or Wrap Message From: if the
original post has no display name.

If the list's Privacy options... -> Subscription rules -> private_roster
is set to List Admin Only, then only someone authenticated as admin can
see 1) or 2).

If the list's from_is_list setting is No (this setting is deprecated and
should normally be No, use Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
dmarc_moderation_action instead) and the user's address in not in a
domain with a domain with a DMARC reject or quarantine policy, then 3)
is probably OK, but it's only certain if neither from_is_list nor
dmarc_moderation_action is Munge From or Wrap Message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From pshute at nuw.org.au  Sun Jun 14 06:16:09 2015
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 14:16:09 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who sees "real names"?
In-Reply-To: <557CC185.2010308@msapiro.net>
References: <EB722C6E-A18E-456F-9EFE-05DEAFD2788B@nuw.org.au>
 <557CC185.2010308@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <8D92F4DB-4F40-44A8-8B19-C26782C7A4B8@nuw.org.au>

Thanks, I think we're safe from all those methods, but I also think it would be safer to leave the name blank, just in case something changes.

Peter Shute

Sent from my iPad

> On 14 Jun 2015, at 9:49 am, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 06/13/2015 02:04 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
>> I've had a request to join our list under a false name. If I enter their real name in the Member Name field so I can tell who they are, who else can ever see that? The member controls the display name used in list messages, don't they?
> 
> The member's real_name attribute can be exposed in various ways.
> 
> 1) The results of the email who command
> 2) The web roster beginning in 2.1.19 if the site allows it
> 3) The display name in a Munge From or Wrap Message From: if the
> original post has no display name.
> 
> If the list's Privacy options... -> Subscription rules -> private_roster
> is set to List Admin Only, then only someone authenticated as admin can
> see 1) or 2).
> 
> If the list's from_is_list setting is No (this setting is deprecated and
> should normally be No, use Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
> dmarc_moderation_action instead) and the user's address in not in a
> domain with a domain with a DMARC reject or quarantine policy, then 3)
> is probably OK, but it's only certain if neither from_is_list nor
> dmarc_moderation_action is Munge From or Wrap Message.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jun 15 04:03:01 2015
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 11:03:01 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who sees "real names"?
In-Reply-To: <8D92F4DB-4F40-44A8-8B19-C26782C7A4B8@nuw.org.au>
References: <EB722C6E-A18E-456F-9EFE-05DEAFD2788B@nuw.org.au>
 <557CC185.2010308@msapiro.net>
 <8D92F4DB-4F40-44A8-8B19-C26782C7A4B8@nuw.org.au>
Message-ID: <87a8w1iv8q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Peter Shute writes:

 > Thanks, I think we're safe from all those methods, but I also think
 > it would be safer to leave the name blank, just in case something
 > changes.

You are right about safer, but note that at least one Mailman
developer (me) would consider inadvertantly exposing more personal
information in a future version than we do now to be a regression, and
a fairly high priority one at that.  Unfortunately, privacy is not
something we can take lightly these days.




From pshute at nuw.org.au  Mon Jun 15 05:13:23 2015
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 13:13:23 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who sees "real names"?
In-Reply-To: <87a8w1iv8q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <EB722C6E-A18E-456F-9EFE-05DEAFD2788B@nuw.org.au>
 <557CC185.2010308@msapiro.net>
 <8D92F4DB-4F40-44A8-8B19-C26782C7A4B8@nuw.org.au>
 <87a8w1iv8q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E1700193A24ECA@nuwvicms2>

Stephen J. wrote:
> 
>  > Thanks, I think we're safe from all those methods, but I also think
>  > it would be safer to leave the name blank, just in case something
>  > changes.
> 
> You are right about safer, but note that at least one Mailman
> developer (me) would consider inadvertantly exposing more personal
> information in a future version than we do now to be a regression, and
> a fairly high priority one at that.  Unfortunately, privacy is not
> something we can take lightly these days.

The sort of changes I was referring to were us changing the settings for our installation of mailman. I think that's way more likely than future version changes.



From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it  Tue Jun 16 11:17:58 2015
From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 11:17:58 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permission for archives
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1506161058310.11125@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>

I am running a few mailing lists with private archive on my machine.
I see that /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/ contains two directories
per list one named "listname" and the other one "listname.mbox".

Owned by wwwrun.mailman, permissions drwxrwsr-x

The listname directory contains one index.html owned by wwwrun.mailman 
while all other directories and text files are owned by mailman.mailman.

The listname.mbox directory contains a single file with the same name.

Now I noticed that at present such file is owned by me (lucio.staff)
with permissions -rw-rw-r--

And I see in the log files some error messages like

Jun 16 07:02:26 2015 (3112) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] 
Permission denied: 
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/fitsconv.mbox/fitsconv.mbox'

I suspect this may be due to the fact a while ago I created some soft 
links from my own ~/.mail directory e.g. fitsconv.mbox -> 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/fitsconv.mbox/fitsconv.mbox
(the links are owned by me and have lrwxrwxrwx)

The idea was that I could, as administrator, access the entire sequence of 
messages of a list from my mail client (alpine), instead than with the web 
interface. Of course I'd just need read access, not write.

1) which are the correct permissions ?

2) apparently since the wrong permission were setup, archiving stopped to
    work. Is there a way to rebuild the archives from messages stored in
    personal folders (I am not sure I have all of them though !)

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy)
For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do not like Firefox >=29 ?  Get Pale Moon !  http://www.palemoon.org

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 16 18:19:35 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 09:19:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permission for archives
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1506161058310.11125@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>
References: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1506161058310.11125@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>
Message-ID: <55804C97.7040108@msapiro.net>

On 06/16/2015 02:17 AM, Lucio Chiappetti wrote:
> I am running a few mailing lists with private archive on my machine.
> I see that /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/ contains two directories
> per list one named "listname" and the other one "listname.mbox".
> 
> Owned by wwwrun.mailman, permissions drwxrwsr-x


This is good. owner doesn't actually mattetr for these. It is the
'mailman' group that is important.


> The listname directory contains one index.html owned by wwwrun.mailman
> while all other directories and text files are owned by mailman.mailman.


That's OK, but they all should be world readable/searchable.


> The listname.mbox directory contains a single file with the same name.
> 
> Now I noticed that at present such file is owned by me (lucio.staff)
> with permissions -rw-rw-r--


Again OK as long as its group is mailman.


> And I see in the log files some error messages like
> 
> Jun 16 07:02:26 2015 (3112) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13]
> Permission denied:
> '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/fitsconv.mbox/fitsconv.mbox'


This will not occur if the file is writable by the 'mailman' group.


> I suspect this may be due to the fact a while ago I created some soft
> links from my own ~/.mail directory e.g. fitsconv.mbox ->
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/fitsconv.mbox/fitsconv.mbox
> (the links are owned by me and have lrwxrwxrwx)


Additional symlinks to the file are irrelevant unless you are writing to
it (you shouldn't be) and changing its group.


> The idea was that I could, as administrator, access the entire sequence
> of messages of a list from my mail client (alpine), instead than with
> the web interface. Of course I'd just need read access, not write.
> 
> 1) which are the correct permissions ?


See above. Also, see Mailman's bin/check_perms.


> 2) apparently since the wrong permission were setup, archiving stopped to
>    work. Is there a way to rebuild the archives from messages stored in
>    personal folders (I am not sure I have all of them though !)


Just fix the permissions and run Mailman's bin/unshunt which will
requeue the shunted messages for the archiver (it won't resend them to
the list).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it  Tue Jun 16 18:38:42 2015
From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 18:38:42 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permission for archives
In-Reply-To: <55804C97.7040108@msapiro.net>
References: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1506161058310.11125@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>
 <55804C97.7040108@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1506161827251.11125@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>

On Tue, 16 Jun 2015, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> 2) apparently since the wrong permission were setup, archiving stopped
>>    to work. Is there a way to rebuild the archives from messages stored
>>    in personal folders (I am not sure I have all of them though !)
>
> Just fix the permissions and run Mailman's bin/unshunt ...

GREAT ! Thanks a lot !
I recovered all the backlog !

>> I suspect this may be due to the fact a while ago I created some soft
>> links from my own ~/.mail directory e.g. fitsconv.mbox ->
>> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/fitsconv.mbox/fitsconv.mbox
>> (the links are owned by me and have lrwxrwxrwx)

Actually I had already reset the permissions for the archive folders (I 
simply enabled archive for a test list to see the fresh permission, and 
applied them to the old folders). This enabled archiving of new messages.
But I was missing the "shunt" piece.

> Additional symlinks to the file are irrelevant unless you are writing to 
> it (you shouldn't be) and changing its group.

I cannot trace how they were (systematically for 3 lists) set to the wrong 
way. Now my alpine mail client enters the folders and sees them in 
READONLY mode (which is good), and refuses to delete messages (which is 
also good). If I enter a message flagged new (unread), it will set its 
flag to "read" ... maybe this is what mislead me ... but this is obviously 
an internal memory flag of the client. If I exit and re-enter the folder, 
I see the original status. Which for me is fine.

Going back to digest mode ...

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 16 18:57:25 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 09:57:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permission for archives
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1506161827251.11125@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>
References: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1506161058310.11125@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>
 <55804C97.7040108@msapiro.net>
 <alpine.LSU.2.00.1506161827251.11125@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>
Message-ID: <55805575.6060800@msapiro.net>

On 06/16/2015 09:38 AM, Lucio Chiappetti wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jun 2015, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> Just fix the permissions and run Mailman's bin/unshunt ...
> 
> GREAT ! Thanks a lot !
> I recovered all the backlog !


Good!


> I cannot trace how they were (systematically for 3 lists) set to the
> wrong way. Now my alpine mail client enters the folders and sees them in
> READONLY mode (which is good), and refuses to delete messages (which is
> also good). If I enter a message flagged new (unread), it will set its
> flag to "read" ... maybe this is what mislead me ... but this is
> obviously an internal memory flag of the client. If I exit and re-enter
> the folder, I see the original status. Which for me is fine.


Actually, the MUA will set a Status: header in the mbox to indicate the
message has been read so that the 'read' status persists across
sessions, but of course this requires the MUA to have permission to
write the mailbox.

The safe thing is for 'you' to not have write permission on the mbox. If
you did have in the past, this may be how the group was changed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Jun 17 09:37:32 2015
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:37:32 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permission for archives
In-Reply-To: <55805575.6060800@msapiro.net>
References: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1506161058310.11125@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>
 <55804C97.7040108@msapiro.net>
 <alpine.LSU.2.00.1506161827251.11125@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>
 <55805575.6060800@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <87ioamhjk3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > The safe thing is for 'you' to not have write permission on the mbox. If
 > you did have in the past, this may be how the group was changed.

Quite likely.

Basically, there are two ways to change the content of a file on
Unix-like systems.  One way is to write-lock (at least) the file, and
open it read-write.  Then do your edits, and close the file.  Voila!
the new contents are there, and the properties of the file (which are
stored in the directory entry, not in the file) do not change.

The second doesn't require locking the file (although in the mail
context you probably want to, since the MTA can add new messages while
you are working with the file in your MUA, and in the simplest version
of this strategy those new messages would be lost).  You make a copy
of the file under a temporary name, edit the copy, and then rename the
file to the old name (usually also renaming the old file for backup).
Under Unix semantics, the new file's directory entry gets *your* owner/
group/umask settings, and renaming just changes the name.

It turns out that on modern Unix systems ordinary users are not
allowed to give arbitrary owner and group properties to a file, so if
your editor or MUA uses the copy-edit-mv strategy, the file's
ownership *will* change.  Probably alpine uses this strategy.


From lists at damorris.com  Wed Jun 17 13:24:51 2015
From: lists at damorris.com (Adam Morris)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 21:24:51 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: member receiving confirmation of messages?
In-Reply-To: <558157A5.8040705@damorris.com>
References: <558157A5.8040705@damorris.com>
Message-ID: <55815903.3080702@damorris.com>



Hi all,

I know in a members options for a mailman list they can tick a box to be 
notified when a message they send gets to the list.
Is there a way for me as administrator to change that for individual 
members?


-- 


Adam Morris

email:
adam at damorris.com






From lac at openend.se  Wed Jun 17 14:29:47 2015
From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:29:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: member receiving confirmation of messages?
In-Reply-To: Message from Adam Morris <lists@damorris.com>
 of "Wed, 17 Jun 2015 21:24:51 +1000." <55815903.3080702@damorris.com>
References: <558157A5.8040705@damorris.com><55815903.3080702@damorris.com>
Message-ID: <201506171229.t5HCTlw1019890@fido.openend.se>

Sure.  Go to the Membership Management tab.
Then select the member you want.
Turn the legend on for the table you get at the bottom, so you will see
that 'ack' is the thing you want to change.

Laura


From cmupythia at cmu.edu  Wed Jun 17 18:02:30 2015
From: cmupythia at cmu.edu (Gretchen R Beck)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:02:30 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrap Message and Munge From aren't happening
Message-ID: <56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB402888221@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>

Hi Folks,

I have a new test mailman server running 2.1.18.1.  It's got some customizations in it from our old 2.1.9 server.

Everything seems to work except the DMARC policy -- specifically, if I send mail to a list from my yahoo address, it bounces if the DMARC moderation action for the list is set to Accept (expected), Wrap Message, or Munge From (unexpected) are set.

I turned off the Outgoing queue runner and examined the captured messages, and frankly, the headers/message body all looks the same, not matter which option is set.

Any suggestions, helpful hints, or things to poke at?

Thanks much!

Gretchen Beck
Carnegie Mellon

From cmupythia at cmu.edu  Wed Jun 17 18:28:12 2015
From: cmupythia at cmu.edu (Gretchen R Beck)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:28:12 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrap Message and Munge From aren't happening
In-Reply-To: <56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB402888221@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>
References: <56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB402888221@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB402888265@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>

Oh, and the site default from_is_list = 0 (Accept)

--Gretchen
________________________________________
From: Mailman-Users [mailman-users-bounces+cmupythia=cmu.edu at python.org] on behalf of Gretchen R Beck [cmupythia at cmu.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 12:02 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrap Message and Munge From aren't happening

Hi Folks,

I have a new test mailman server running 2.1.18.1.  It's got some customizations in it from our old 2.1.9 server.

Everything seems to work except the DMARC policy -- specifically, if I send mail to a list from my yahoo address, it bounces if the DMARC moderation action for the list is set to Accept (expected), Wrap Message, or Munge From (unexpected) are set.

I turned off the Outgoing queue runner and examined the captured messages, and frankly, the headers/message body all looks the same, not matter which option is set.

Any suggestions, helpful hints, or things to poke at?

Thanks much!

Gretchen Beck
Carnegie Mellon
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cmupythia%40cmu.edu

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 17 20:29:34 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 11:29:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrap Message and Munge From aren't happening
In-Reply-To: <56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB402888221@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>
References: <56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB402888221@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <5581BC8E.30106@msapiro.net>

On 06/17/2015 09:02 AM, Gretchen R Beck wrote:
> 
> I have a new test mailman server running 2.1.18.1.  It's got some customizations in it from our old 2.1.9 server.
> 
> Everything seems to work except the DMARC policy -- specifically, if I send mail to a list from my yahoo address, it bounces if the DMARC moderation action for the list is set to Accept (expected), Wrap Message, or Munge From (unexpected) are set.


Is dnspython installed in the Python that your MM uses? If you had
installed from source, you couldn't have successfully completed
./configure without this dependency, but if you installed some other way ...

invoke the Python used by your MM and do

import dns.resolver

If this succeeds, you have it. If not, you need to install it. Get it
from <http://www.dnspython.org/> or
<https://pypi.python.org/pypi/dnspython/> or install it with pip.

Also, if it is not available, there should be 'DNS lookup for
dmarc_moderation_action for list XXX not available' messages in
Mailman's error log.

If that is not the issue,, are there 'DNSException: Unable to query
DMARC policy ...' messages in Mailman's error log. If so, you may need
to set larger than default values for DMARC_RESOLVER_TIMEOUT and
DMARC_RESOLVER_LIFETIME in mm_cfg.py.

Are there any 'DMARC lookup for LIST (email_address) found p=reject ...'
entries in Mailman's vette log?

Are you posting from ... at yahoo.com? Other yahoo domains such as
yahoo.co.uk and so forth do not publish DMARC policies. You might also try

dig txt _dmarc.yahoo.com

on your mailman server just to verify you get a result like "v=DMARC1\;
p=reject\; ...".

Finally (or maybe first), you could try setting from_is_list to Munge
>From or Wrap Message to see if that works. That does it unconditionally
without DNS lookups of DMARC policy.

If that doesn't work, your 2.1.9 customizations are likely the reason.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ephraim at cs.huji.ac.il  Thu Jun 18 08:08:51 2015
From: ephraim at cs.huji.ac.il (Ephraim Silverberg)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 09:08:51 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers and case sensitivity
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1506180907550.32024@control.cs.huji.ac.il>

In Mailman 2.1.17, a user is listed under Privacy options->Sender 
filters->accept_these_nonmembers as:

 	someone at somedomain

This individual sent a message to the list as:

 	Someone at somedomain

I.e. with the first letter of the username capitilised.

Since Mailman's policy is LCE, I would expect the message to
be sent to the list members seemlessly, but this is not what
happened.

>From the Exim logs, Mailman sent the sender and moderator a
"Post by non-member to a members-only list" message, but also
simultaneously sent the message to the list members WITHOUT
the moderator having approved the message, giving the sender
the impression that the message hadn't been sent out.
_____________________________________
Ephraim Silverberg, CSE System Group,
Hebrew University, Jerusalem, Israel.
Phone/Fax number:     +972-2-5494521

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 18 16:53:13 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 07:53:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers and case sensitivity
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1506180907550.32024@control.cs.huji.ac.il>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1506180907550.32024@control.cs.huji.ac.il>
Message-ID: <5582DB59.9020204@msapiro.net>

On 06/17/2015 11:08 PM, Ephraim Silverberg wrote:
> In Mailman 2.1.17, a user is listed under Privacy options->Sender
> filters->accept_these_nonmembers as:
> 
>     someone at somedomain
> 
> This individual sent a message to the list as:
> 
>     Someone at somedomain
> 
> I.e. with the first letter of the username capitilised.
> 
> Since Mailman's policy is LCE, I would expect the message to
> be sent to the list members seemlessly, but this is not what
> happened.
> 
>> From the Exim logs, Mailman sent the sender and moderator a
> "Post by non-member to a members-only list" message, but also
> simultaneously sent the message to the list members WITHOUT
> the moderator having approved the message, giving the sender
> the impression that the message hadn't been sent out.


First of all, the *_these_nonmember checks are not case sensitive.

Then, I don't see a way that Mailman could notify the poster and admin
that a post is held and then deliver the same post to the same list
without further action.

What is in Mailman's vette log from this time frame?
If there is a post held message, what is the message-id in that log
message and is it the same as that of the delivered post and is the
poster's email address in that message someone at somedomain (i.e.
identical except for case to the accept_these_nonmembers address)?

For that matter is the list name what you expect?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ephraim at cs.huji.ac.il  Sun Jun 21 11:48:57 2015
From: ephraim at cs.huji.ac.il (Ephraim Silverberg)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 12:48:57 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers and case sensitivity
In-Reply-To: <mailman.30.1434708004.15411.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.30.1434708004.15411.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1506211230470.25732@control.cs.huji.ac.il>

> First of all, the *_these_nonmember checks are not case sensitive.
> 
> Then, I don't see a way that Mailman could notify the poster and admin
> that a post is held and then deliver the same post to the same list
> without further action.
> 
> What is in Mailman's vette log from this time frame?

You are correct, the Vette logs show that the moderator
did approve the post -- assumingly, by the web interface,
as no log of such appears in the mail logs:

Jun 17 10:22:11 2015 (1447) Cyber post from dxxxxxx at zzzzzz.huji.ac.il held, message-id=<8580F77FFEF0F2448E3A51C4AE83807D011951BABC at Pegasus2.hustaff.huji.local>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
Jun 17 10:24:56 2015 (88042) held message approved, message-id: <8580F77FFEF0F2448E3A51C4AE83807D011951BABC at Pegasus2.hustaff.huji.local>

Using the list's archives, I tracked down the problem -- the information
the user relayed to me was incorrect.  Apparently, the user sent to the list
with the following 'From:' line:

     From: dxxxxxx at zzzzzz.huji.ac.il (Dyyyy Swww)

Sorry for bothering the list needlessly.
_____________________________________
Ephraim Silverberg, CSE System Group,
Hebrew University, Jerusalem, Israel.
Phone/Fax number:     +972-2-5494521

From mail at endlessvoid.com  Sun Jun 21 03:39:58 2015
From: mail at endlessvoid.com (Yasir Assam)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 11:39:58 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DKIM best practise
Message-ID: <558615EE.1050200@endlessvoid.com>

I have a list which all subscribers can post to.

I'm using mailman 2.1.18 on Debian Jessie with exim4. I have full
personlisation and verp turned on.

What should I do about DKIM?

At the moment I preserve the original poster's DKIM header and my list's
MTA also adds DKIM to all outgoing mail.

If I set from_is_list to Munge, hotmail users can't reply to the list,
even when they hit Reply All (if I try doing Reply All from a hotmail
account, I only see the sender's address, not the list address). If it
wasn't for this hotmail problem, I'd probably prefer to have a munged
from header.

If I set from_is_list to No, the hotmail Reply All problem goes away,
but now Yahoo-sent email ends up in Yahoo's spam (i.e. if
bob at yahoo.com.au sends to list at example.com, bob receives the email he
just posted in his spam folder, not in his inbox). I'm specifically
talking about a yahoo.com.au address (I haven't tried yahoo.com yet).

Just to be clear, when from_is_list is No, the DKIM header I'm adding is
for the list domain, e.g. if the list is list at example.com then
d=example.com in my added DKIM header.

Here's an example Authentication-Results added by a gmail subscriber
receiving a post from a yahoo.com.au subscriber (names changed):

Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
       spf=pass (google.com: domain of
list-bounces+bob=gmail.com at example.com designates x.x.x.x as permitted
sender) smtp.mail=list-bounces+bob=gmail.com at example.com;
       dkim=pass header.i=@example.com;
       dmarc=fail (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=yahoo.com.au

So what is the recommended way of doing this? Should I not bother adding
a DKIM header to mailman-sent emails? Should I strip the original DKIM
header (REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS) ?

Is there any way I can get hotmail to reply to the list when the From:
header is munged? Is munging considered bad form (when not mitigating
DMARC reject policies)?

Thanks,
Yasir


From cawley at wrlc.org  Sat Jun 20 16:40:31 2015
From: cawley at wrlc.org (Cawley, Chris)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 10:40:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking to do a test mirgration
Message-ID: <CAEY+etbFrvAnBP5LuonZAnuLFPDUgr3HEiceMUFKXGZCWk1-6w@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

We are looking to setup a test site in the lab.
I was able to copy production over for some testing
and everything comes up with a few issues.

Is there a way to disable all automatic notifications?

Thanks
Chris

From lac at openend.se  Sun Jun 21 17:41:46 2015
From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 17:41:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking to do a test mirgration
In-Reply-To: Message from "Cawley, Chris" <cawley@wrlc.org> of "Sat,
 20 Jun 2015 10:40:31 -0400."
 <CAEY+etbFrvAnBP5LuonZAnuLFPDUgr3HEiceMUFKXGZCWk1-6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEY+etbFrvAnBP5LuonZAnuLFPDUgr3HEiceMUFKXGZCWk1-6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201506211541.t5LFfkB3008526@fido.openend.se>

>Is there a way to disable all automatic notifications?
>
>Thanks
>Chris

If you go to the administrative interface of your list
and click on General Options you will find a bunch of things to turn off.

If you are using the Auto-Responder you may have to turn things off there,
too.

Laura


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 21 17:46:21 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 08:46:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DKIM best practise
In-Reply-To: <558615EE.1050200@endlessvoid.com>
References: <558615EE.1050200@endlessvoid.com>
Message-ID: <5586DC4D.2060409@msapiro.net>

On 06/20/2015 06:39 PM, Yasir Assam wrote:
> 
> I'm using mailman 2.1.18 on Debian Jessie with exim4. I have full
> personlisation and verp turned on.
> 
> What should I do about DKIM?
> 
> At the moment I preserve the original poster's DKIM header and my list's
> MTA also adds DKIM to all outgoing mail.


This is the good and is the best you can do.


> If I set from_is_list to Munge, hotmail users can't reply to the list,
> even when they hit Reply All (if I try doing Reply All from a hotmail
> account, I only see the sender's address, not the list address). If it
> wasn't for this hotmail problem, I'd probably prefer to have a munged
> from header.


With Munge From and Full Personalization, delivered posts will be From:
the list with Reply-To: the poster and To: the recipient. Hotmail is
taking the Reply-To: as overriding the From: even for reply-all and with
Full Personalization, the From: is the only header (other than
List-Post) with the list address.


> If I set from_is_list to No, the hotmail Reply All problem goes away,
> but now Yahoo-sent email ends up in Yahoo's spam (i.e. if
> bob at yahoo.com.au sends to list at example.com, bob receives the email he
> just posted in his spam folder, not in his inbox). I'm specifically
> talking about a yahoo.com.au address (I haven't tried yahoo.com yet).


Yahoo.com.au publishes DMARC p=none. Yahoo.com publishes DMARC p=reject.
Without some Munge From, Wrap Message or anonymous_list transformation,
yahoo.com mail will not be accepted by Yahoo, Hotmail and many other ISPs.

As far as the mail from yahoo.com.au ending up in spam, removing the
broken DKIM sig may help (REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = 2). It shouldn't matter
(see below), but it may help.


> Just to be clear, when from_is_list is No, the DKIM header I'm adding is
> for the list domain, e.g. if the list is list at example.com then
> d=example.com in my added DKIM header.

> Here's an example Authentication-Results added by a gmail subscriber
> receiving a post from a yahoo.com.au subscriber (names changed):
> 
> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>        spf=pass (google.com: domain of
> list-bounces+bob=gmail.com at example.com designates x.x.x.x as permitted
> sender) smtp.mail=list-bounces+bob=gmail.com at example.com;
>        dkim=pass header.i=@example.com;
>        dmarc=fail (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=yahoo.com.au
> 
> So what is the recommended way of doing this? Should I not bother adding
> a DKIM header to mailman-sent emails? Should I strip the original DKIM
> header (REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS) ?


What you are doing is correct and good practice. Removing incoming DKIM
headers probably won't help. The DKIM standard says an invalid DKIM
signature and no DKIM signature SHOULD be treated the same (RFC 6376/STD
76, sec 6.3)


> Is there any way I can get hotmail to reply to the list when the From:
> header is munged? Is munging considered bad form (when not mitigating
> DMARC reject policies)?


There are a few things you can do.

You can turn off Full Personalization which will leave the list address
in To: and Hotmail's reply-all should include it.

You can set reply_to_list to this list which will put the list address
in Reply-To: (along with the poster's address), but this will make it
more difficult to reply only to the poster as a simple reply will also
include the list.

There are some changes in this area in 2.1.19 (see
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1407098>), but I don't think
they help your situation.

You could modify CookHeaders.py to add the poster's address to Cc:
rather than Reply-To: in your case.

You should also consider using dmarc_moderation_action rather than
from_is_list to only Munge From when 'necessary'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 21 17:51:19 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 08:51:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking to do a test mirgration
In-Reply-To: <201506211541.t5LFfkB3008526@fido.openend.se>
References: <CAEY+etbFrvAnBP5LuonZAnuLFPDUgr3HEiceMUFKXGZCWk1-6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <201506211541.t5LFfkB3008526@fido.openend.se>
Message-ID: <5586DD77.2070102@msapiro.net>

On 06/21/2015 08:41 AM, Laura Creighton wrote:
>> Is there a way to disable all automatic notifications?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Chris
> 
> If you go to the administrative interface of your list
> and click on General Options you will find a bunch of things to turn off.
> 
> If you are using the Auto-Responder you may have to turn things off there,
> too.


And you may wish to turn off the Bounce processing notifications, and
you probably want to not install Mailman's crontab or at least not run
checkdbs, disabled, mailpasswds and maybe senddigests.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 21 17:53:47 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 08:53:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers and case sensitivity
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1506211230470.25732@control.cs.huji.ac.il>
References: <mailman.30.1434708004.15411.mailman-users@python.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.11.1506211230470.25732@control.cs.huji.ac.il>
Message-ID: <5586DE0B.5020405@msapiro.net>

On 06/21/2015 02:48 AM, Ephraim Silverberg wrote:
> 
> Sorry for bothering the list needlessly.


No Problem. Thanks for reporting back.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 22 04:33:10 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 19:33:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DKIM best practise
In-Reply-To: <558615EE.1050200@endlessvoid.com>
References: <558615EE.1050200@endlessvoid.com>
Message-ID: <558773E6.8060203@msapiro.net>

On 06/20/2015 06:39 PM, Yasir Assam wrote:
> Is there any way I can get hotmail to reply to the list when the From:
> header is munged? Is munging considered bad form (when not mitigating
> DMARC reject policies)?


It may not have been clear from my earlier reply, but yes, From Munging
is considered bad form. It violates the basic email RFCs definition of
the meaning of the From: header. It is best not to do it
unconditionally, and a better response to DMARC mitigation is Wrap
Message, but that said we recognize that Wrap Message creates issues for
some (particularly moblie device) MUAs so that in some cases at least,
Munge From is the most acceptable mitigation. It is best if only applied
when needed via dmarc_moderation_action and not unconditionally via
from_is_list.

On a different subject, I have looked a bit further, and with what I
understand your list settings to be, i.e. Full Personalization,
from_is_list = Munge From, reply_goes_to_list = Poster; I think even
with 2.1.18 the list posting address will be put in or added to Cc:, and
the original From: will be in Reply-To:.

Thus any reasonable MUA should 'reply' to the original From: and
'reply-all' to the original From: and the list. If the headers are as I
say and Hotmail is not doing this, then Hotmail is behaving badly as the
Reply-To: should override the list address in the From:, but it
shouldn't affect replying-all to a Cc:.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mail at endlessvoid.com  Mon Jun 22 04:32:23 2015
From: mail at endlessvoid.com (Yasir Assam)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 12:32:23 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DKIM best practise
In-Reply-To: <5586DC4D.2060409@msapiro.net>
References: <558615EE.1050200@endlessvoid.com> <5586DC4D.2060409@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <558773B7.1010101@endlessvoid.com>

Many thanks for your response Mark.

Comments below.

On 22/06/2015 1:46 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/20/2015 06:39 PM, Yasir Assam wrote:
>> I'm using mailman 2.1.18 on Debian Jessie with exim4. I have full
>> personlisation and verp turned on.
>>
>> What should I do about DKIM?
>>
>> At the moment I preserve the original poster's DKIM header and my list's
>> MTA also adds DKIM to all outgoing mail.
>
> This is the good and is the best you can do.

I noticed that this list, mailman-users at python.org, doesn't add a DKIM
header unless the list itself generates the email, i.e. the email you
sent to this list only has your DKIM header (d=msapiro.net), whereas the
original welcome email has DKIM with d=python.org. On my list, I'm
adding a DKIM header for the list domain, even though the From: header
isn't the list. In other words, if alice at gmail.com posts to
list at example.com, my MTA was still adding a d=example.com DKIM header
when resending her email via the list, even when From: is alice at gmail.com.

Is it right to do this?

I subscribed to mailman-users at python.org using a Yahoo address, and
interestingly, 2 emails ended up in spam (one of which was my original
post, which is from a non-yahoo address).

>> If I set from_is_list to Munge, hotmail users can't reply to the list,
>> even when they hit Reply All (if I try doing Reply All from a hotmail
>> account, I only see the sender's address, not the list address). If it
>> wasn't for this hotmail problem, I'd probably prefer to have a munged
>> from header.
>
> With Munge From and Full Personalization, delivered posts will be From:
> the list with Reply-To: the poster and To: the recipient. Hotmail is
> taking the Reply-To: as overriding the From: even for reply-all and with
> Full Personalization, the From: is the only header (other than
> List-Post) with the list address.

This isn't quite true in my case. You're right about all the headers,
except that Mailman is adding a CC field with the list address. To be
clear, using Full Personalisation and Munge From:

From: list address
Reply-to: poster
To: recipient
CC: list address

Given that CC contains the list address, you'd expect Hotmail to include
it as a recipient when doing Reply All, but it doesn't!

>> If I set from_is_list to No, the hotmail Reply All problem goes away,
>> but now Yahoo-sent email ends up in Yahoo's spam (i.e. if
>> bob at yahoo.com.au sends to list at example.com, bob receives the email he
>> just posted in his spam folder, not in his inbox). I'm specifically
>> talking about a yahoo.com.au address (I haven't tried yahoo.com yet).
>
> Yahoo.com.au publishes DMARC p=none. Yahoo.com publishes DMARC p=reject.
> Without some Munge From, Wrap Message or anonymous_list transformation,
> yahoo.com mail will not be accepted by Yahoo, Hotmail and many other ISPs.

Yes, I read about this recently. My test list doesn't yet contain any
yahoo.com addresses.

> As far as the mail from yahoo.com.au ending up in spam, removing the
> broken DKIM sig may help (REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = 2). It shouldn't matter
> (see below), but it may help.

I think I tried this but it didn't make a difference to Yahoo's spam filter.

>> Just to be clear, when from_is_list is No, the DKIM header I'm adding is
>> for the list domain, e.g. if the list is list at example.com then
>> d=example.com in my added DKIM header.
>> Here's an example Authentication-Results added by a gmail subscriber
>> receiving a post from a yahoo.com.au subscriber (names changed):
>>
>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>        spf=pass (google.com: domain of
>> list-bounces+bob=gmail.com at example.com designates x.x.x.x as permitted
>> sender) smtp.mail=list-bounces+bob=gmail.com at example.com;
>>        dkim=pass header.i=@example.com;
>>        dmarc=fail (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=yahoo.com.au
>>
>> So what is the recommended way of doing this? Should I not bother adding
>> a DKIM header to mailman-sent emails? Should I strip the original DKIM
>> header (REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS) ?
>
> What you are doing is correct and good practice. Removing incoming DKIM
> headers probably won't help. The DKIM standard says an invalid DKIM
> signature and no DKIM signature SHOULD be treated the same (RFC 6376/STD
> 76, sec 6.3)
>
>
>> Is there any way I can get hotmail to reply to the list when the From:
>> header is munged? Is munging considered bad form (when not mitigating
>> DMARC reject policies)?
>
> There are a few things you can do.
>
> You can turn off Full Personalization which will leave the list address
> in To: and Hotmail's reply-all should include it.

Hotmail doesn't include it. I tried Full Personalisation off, Munge on,
with the following headers:

From: list address
Reply-to: poster
To: list address

In Hotmail, Reply All only includes poster, not list address (despite
list address appearing in To field)

> You can set reply_to_list to this list which will put the list address
> in Reply-To: (along with the poster's address), but this will make it
> more difficult to reply only to the poster as a simple reply will also
> include the list.

I used to have this on years ago, and what happened was that repliers
were sending private mail to the whole list when they only intended it
for the original poster. I ended up getting complaints and had to turn
it off.

> There are some changes in this area in 2.1.19 (see
> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1407098>), but I don't think
> they help your situation.
>
> You could modify CookHeaders.py to add the poster's address to Cc:
> rather than Reply-To: in your case.

If munging is on, and I put the poster address in CC: rather than
Reply-to: won't that mean a single Reply (not Reply All) will go to the
list address?

> You should also consider using dmarc_moderation_action rather than
> from_is_list to only Munge From when 'necessary'.
>

The reason I tried from_is_list = Munge is because I wanted valid DKIM
headers (added by my MTA). When I used Munge with DKIM added to all list
mail, yahoo didn't mark any mail as spam. I would have stuck with it if
I didn't have the hotmail Reply All problem.

Thanks,
Yasir


From mail at endlessvoid.com  Mon Jun 22 05:00:27 2015
From: mail at endlessvoid.com (Yasir Assam)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 13:00:27 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DKIM best practise
In-Reply-To: <558773E6.8060203@msapiro.net>
References: <558615EE.1050200@endlessvoid.com> <558773E6.8060203@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <55877A4B.5060402@endlessvoid.com>

Thanks Mark.

What you describe below makes sense, and I agree hotmail is behaving
badly, but I'm stuck with its bad behaviour.

In any case, if From Munging is not good to do generally then I have to
figure out another way placate Yahoo's spam filter.

Yasir

On 22/06/2015 12:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/20/2015 06:39 PM, Yasir Assam wrote:
>> Is there any way I can get hotmail to reply to the list when the From:
>> header is munged? Is munging considered bad form (when not mitigating
>> DMARC reject policies)?
>
> It may not have been clear from my earlier reply, but yes, From Munging
> is considered bad form. It violates the basic email RFCs definition of
> the meaning of the From: header. It is best not to do it
> unconditionally, and a better response to DMARC mitigation is Wrap
> Message, but that said we recognize that Wrap Message creates issues for
> some (particularly moblie device) MUAs so that in some cases at least,
> Munge From is the most acceptable mitigation. It is best if only applied
> when needed via dmarc_moderation_action and not unconditionally via
> from_is_list.
>
> On a different subject, I have looked a bit further, and with what I
> understand your list settings to be, i.e. Full Personalization,
> from_is_list = Munge From, reply_goes_to_list = Poster; I think even
> with 2.1.18 the list posting address will be put in or added to Cc:, and
> the original From: will be in Reply-To:.
>
> Thus any reasonable MUA should 'reply' to the original From: and
> 'reply-all' to the original From: and the list. If the headers are as I
> say and Hotmail is not doing this, then Hotmail is behaving badly as the
> Reply-To: should override the list address in the From:, but it
> shouldn't affect replying-all to a Cc:.
>


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jun 22 05:58:05 2015
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 12:58:05 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DKIM best practise
In-Reply-To: <558773B7.1010101@endlessvoid.com>
References: <558615EE.1050200@endlessvoid.com> <5586DC4D.2060409@msapiro.net>
 <558773B7.1010101@endlessvoid.com>
Message-ID: <87bng8fl82.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Yasir Assam writes:

 > I noticed that this list, mailman-users at python.org, doesn't add a
 > DKIM header unless the list itself generates the email, i.e. the
 > email you sent to this list only has your DKIM header
 > (d=msapiro.net), whereas the original welcome email has DKIM with
 > d=python.org.

IIUC, Mark has input into, but does not control, policy on
mail.python.org.  People have different experience with, and therefore
opinions on policy, about these things.

As Mark already said, according to the standards it is correct and
good practice to add a DKIM signature to every message you process
outside of the MTA and then reinject into the Internet mail system.
In more friendly terms, if you simply pass on the message *exactly* as
received except for adding "Received" and 2List-Post" to the front of
the message, you don't need to DKIM sign but it doesn't hurt.  But if
you change the message (eg, by adding a list signature or by adding
the list name to the Subject field), you *should* DKIM sign.

 > On my list, I'm adding a DKIM header for the list domain, even
 > though the From: header isn't the list. In other words, if
 > alice at gmail.com posts to list at example.com, my MTA was still adding
 > a d=example.com DKIM header when resending her email via the list,
 > even when From: is alice at gmail.com.
 > 
 > Is it right to do this?

Yes.

 > I subscribed to mailman-users at python.org using a Yahoo address, and
 > interestingly, 2 emails ended up in spam (one of which was my original
 > post, which is from a non-yahoo address).

Yahoo and Hotmail are a child's garden of diseases when it comes to
their behavior in the mail system.  Outlook and Gmail also cause
problems.  It would be OK if there was only one 800 pound gorilla
around, you'd just adapt.  The problem is that there are several, and
they have conflicting requirements.  You can't satisfy them all.

 > This isn't quite true in my case. You're right about all the headers,
 > except that Mailman is adding a CC field with the list address.

I don't think that Mailman adds the CC:.

 > Given that CC contains the list address, you'd expect Hotmail to
 > include it as a recipient when doing Reply All, but it doesn't!

Then you can't workaround both Hotmail's broken MUA and yahoo.com's
idiotic DMARC policy, and provide full reply functionality to people
with decent MUAs.  There may be a workaround for both Hotmail's broken
MUA and yahoo.com.au's spam filtering policy, but we can't design one
without accurate information about yahoo.com.au's policy, and they are
very unlikely to provide it.

The only thing that will satisfy all parties is to turn off all list
decorations: no header or footer in the body, and no change to the
Subject field.

 > > You could modify CookHeaders.py to add the poster's address to Cc:
 > > rather than Reply-To: in your case.
 > 
 > If munging is on, and I put the poster address in CC: rather than
 > Reply-to: won't that mean a single Reply (not Reply All) will go to the
 > list address?

Yes.  It definitely won't go to the poster.


From mail at endlessvoid.com  Mon Jun 22 08:10:27 2015
From: mail at endlessvoid.com (Yasir Assam)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 16:10:27 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DKIM best practise
In-Reply-To: <87bng8fl82.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <558615EE.1050200@endlessvoid.com>	<5586DC4D.2060409@msapiro.net>	<558773B7.1010101@endlessvoid.com>
 <87bng8fl82.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <5587A6D3.1040105@endlessvoid.com>


On 22/06/2015 1:58 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> As Mark already said, according to the standards it is correct and
> good practice to add a DKIM signature to every message you process
> outside of the MTA and then reinject into the Internet mail system.
> In more friendly terms, if you simply pass on the message *exactly* as
> received except for adding "Received" and 2List-Post" to the front of
> the message, you don't need to DKIM sign but it doesn't hurt.  But if
> you change the message (eg, by adding a list signature or by adding
> the list name to the Subject field), you *should* DKIM sign.

Got it, thanks.

>  
>  > I subscribed to mailman-users at python.org using a Yahoo address, and
>  > interestingly, 2 emails ended up in spam (one of which was my original
>  > post, which is from a non-yahoo address).
>
> Yahoo and Hotmail are a child's garden of diseases when it comes to
> their behavior in the mail system.  Outlook and Gmail also cause
> problems.  It would be OK if there was only one 800 pound gorilla
> around, you'd just adapt.  The problem is that there are several, and
> they have conflicting requirements.  You can't satisfy them all.

I was hoping there was a way to pacify all these gorillas, but it looks
like there isn't.

>  > This isn't quite true in my case. You're right about all the headers,
>  > except that Mailman is adding a CC field with the list address.
>
> I don't think that Mailman adds the CC:.

I think it does in my version of Mailman (2.1.18 on Debian Jessie).

So it sounds like I should do the following:

  * DKIM sign all mail sent by mailman
  * Don't remove existing DKIM headers
  * from_is_list = No
  * REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = No
  * dmarc_moderation_action = wrap message

I'll tell my users to keep checking their spam folders and marking my
mail as not spam, and hope that yahoo and others learn to flag my list
mail as not spam over time.

Thanks,
Yasir


From jimpop at gmail.com  Mon Jun 22 19:24:55 2015
From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 13:24:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR logging support
Message-ID: <CAGfsgR1O92pOOg7ferqU1bp7q12iLK7uA3N0-VGiugohsT72Jw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm looking for feedback on the attached patch which adds support for
logging the real client IP address when Mailman is behind a proxy.

I'm also looking for feedback on the use of REMOTE_ADDR instead of REMOTE_HOST.

Ex:

-    remote = os.environ.get('REMOTE_HOST',
+   remote = os.environ.get('HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR',
                             os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR',
                                            'unidentified origin'))


Thanks!!

-Jim P.
-------------- next part --------------
=== modified file 'Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py'
--- Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py	2015-05-06 15:07:08 +0000
+++ Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py	2015-06-20 21:11:21 +0000
@@ -186,7 +186,7 @@
         'subscribe')
     if mm_cfg.SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET:
         now = str(int(time.time()))
-        remote = os.environ.get('REMOTE_HOST',
+        remote = os.environ.get('HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR',
                                 os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR',
                                                'w.x.y.z'))
         # Try to accept a range in case of load balancers, etc.  (LP: #1447445)

=== modified file 'Mailman/Cgi/options.py'
--- Mailman/Cgi/options.py	2015-02-05 12:15:37 +0000
+++ Mailman/Cgi/options.py	2015-06-20 21:11:21 +0000
@@ -193,7 +193,7 @@
                     mlist.HoldUnsubscription(user)
                     doc.addError(msga, tag='')
                 else:
-                    ip = os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR')
+                    ip = os.environ.get('HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR', os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR'))
                     mlist.ConfirmUnsubscription(user, userlang, remote=ip)
                     doc.addError(msgc, tag='')
                 mlist.Save()
@@ -264,7 +264,7 @@
             # So as not to allow membership leakage, prompt for the email
             # address and the password here.
             if mlist.private_roster <> 0:
-                remote = os.environ.get('REMOTE_HOST', os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR', 'unidentified origin'))
+                remote = os.environ.get('HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR', os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR', 'unidentified origin'))
                 syslog('mischief',
                        'Login failure with private rosters: %s from %s',
                        user, remote)


=== modified file 'Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py'
--- Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py	2015-04-24 00:42:33 +0000
+++ Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py	2015-06-20 21:11:21 +0000
@@ -118,7 +118,7 @@
     # Canonicalize the full name
     fullname = Utils.canonstr(fullname, lang)
     # Who was doing the subscribing?
-    remote = os.environ.get('REMOTE_HOST',
+    remote = os.environ.get('HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR',
                             os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR',
                                            'unidentified origin'))
     # Are we checking the hidden data?

=== modified file 'Mailman/Utils.py'
--- Mailman/Utils.py	2015-05-06 15:07:08 +0000
+++ Mailman/Utils.py	2015-06-20 21:11:21 +0000
@@ -261,8 +261,9 @@
     path = os.environ.get(envar)
     if path:
         if CRNLpat.search(path):
+            client = os.environ.get('HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR', os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR')) 
             path = CRNLpat.split(path)[0]
-            syslog('error', 'Warning: Possible malformed path attack.')
+            syslog('error', 'Warning: Possible malformed path attack d=%s r=%s' % get_domain(), client)
         return [p for p in path.split('/') if p]
     return None
 

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Jun 23 02:06:44 2015
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 09:06:44 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR logging support
In-Reply-To: <CAGfsgR1O92pOOg7ferqU1bp7q12iLK7uA3N0-VGiugohsT72Jw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGfsgR1O92pOOg7ferqU1bp7q12iLK7uA3N0-VGiugohsT72Jw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87616fffu3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Are you proposing this for inclusion in a future Mailman distribution?
If so, RFC 7239 Forwarded-For should be supported as well.

Also, since one of the purposes of this information appears to be
detection of attacks of various kinds, I would think that instead of
falling back to REMOTE_HOST or REMOTE_ADDR, you would want to collect
all of them.  After all, this is cheap since you're getting it from
the HTTP headers, no DNS lookups or whatever involved, they've already
been done.

This especially applies to REMOTE_HOST vs. REMOTE_ADDR.

Jim Popovitch writes:
 > Hello,
 > 
 > I'm looking for feedback on the attached patch which adds support for
 > logging the real client IP address when Mailman is behind a proxy.
 > 
 > I'm also looking for feedback on the use of REMOTE_ADDR instead of REMOTE_HOST.
 > 
 > Ex:
 > 
 > -    remote = os.environ.get('REMOTE_HOST',
 > +   remote = os.environ.get('HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR',
 >                              os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR',
 >                                             'unidentified origin'))
 > 
 > 
 > Thanks!!
 > 
 > -Jim P.
 > === modified file 'Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py'
 > --- Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py	2015-05-06 15:07:08 +0000
 > +++ Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py	2015-06-20 21:11:21 +0000
 > @@ -186,7 +186,7 @@
 >          'subscribe')
 >      if mm_cfg.SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET:
 >          now = str(int(time.time()))
 > -        remote = os.environ.get('REMOTE_HOST',
 > +        remote = os.environ.get('HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR',
 >                                  os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR',
 >                                                 'w.x.y.z'))
 >          # Try to accept a range in case of load balancers, etc.  (LP: #1447445)
 > 
 > === modified file 'Mailman/Cgi/options.py'
 > --- Mailman/Cgi/options.py	2015-02-05 12:15:37 +0000
 > +++ Mailman/Cgi/options.py	2015-06-20 21:11:21 +0000
 > @@ -193,7 +193,7 @@
 >                      mlist.HoldUnsubscription(user)
 >                      doc.addError(msga, tag='')
 >                  else:
 > -                    ip = os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR')
 > +                    ip = os.environ.get('HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR', os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR'))
 >                      mlist.ConfirmUnsubscription(user, userlang, remote=ip)
 >                      doc.addError(msgc, tag='')
 >                  mlist.Save()
 > @@ -264,7 +264,7 @@
 >              # So as not to allow membership leakage, prompt for the email
 >              # address and the password here.
 >              if mlist.private_roster <> 0:
 > -                remote = os.environ.get('REMOTE_HOST', os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR', 'unidentified origin'))
 > +                remote = os.environ.get('HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR', os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR', 'unidentified origin'))
 >                  syslog('mischief',
 >                         'Login failure with private rosters: %s from %s',
 >                         user, remote)
 > 
 > 
 > === modified file 'Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py'
 > --- Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py	2015-04-24 00:42:33 +0000
 > +++ Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py	2015-06-20 21:11:21 +0000
 > @@ -118,7 +118,7 @@
 >      # Canonicalize the full name
 >      fullname = Utils.canonstr(fullname, lang)
 >      # Who was doing the subscribing?
 > -    remote = os.environ.get('REMOTE_HOST',
 > +    remote = os.environ.get('HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR',
 >                              os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR',
 >                                             'unidentified origin'))
 >      # Are we checking the hidden data?
 > 
 > === modified file 'Mailman/Utils.py'
 > --- Mailman/Utils.py	2015-05-06 15:07:08 +0000
 > +++ Mailman/Utils.py	2015-06-20 21:11:21 +0000
 > @@ -261,8 +261,9 @@
 >      path = os.environ.get(envar)
 >      if path:
 >          if CRNLpat.search(path):
 > +            client = os.environ.get('HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR', os.environ.get('REMOTE_ADDR')) 
 >              path = CRNLpat.split(path)[0]
 > -            syslog('error', 'Warning: Possible malformed path attack.')
 > +            syslog('error', 'Warning: Possible malformed path attack d=%s r=%s' % get_domain(), client)
 >          return [p for p in path.split('/') if p]
 >      return None
 >  ------------------------------------------------------
 > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
 > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
 > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
 > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/stephen%40xemacs.org


From surdet at goodseasontravel.com  Mon Jun 22 11:44:20 2015
From: surdet at goodseasontravel.com (surdet)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 16:44:20 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to force mailman send a message to all members
	at a time?
Message-ID: <5587D8F4.9010301@goodseasontravel.com>

I have installed mailman version 2.1.12 with postfix. I have 6 members 
of a list. I found some time  mailman send a message to 4 members and 10 
minutes later it send a message to 2 members remaining. How can I force 
mailman send a message to all members at a time?

Thanks,
Mr.Suradet C.



From nick.peckham at googlemail.com  Sun Jun 21 19:55:08 2015
From: nick.peckham at googlemail.com (Nick Stevens)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 18:55:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments not getting through at random...
Message-ID: <CAMtaSBaq6=cF3kX7vu=kR9foAX4M43rcA+1tEoCGUvyHASb-GA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,
I'm new to the list - I did search the archives, but cannot find anything
covering my specific case.


My problem is with attachments to my list. For some users, attachments
never get through. I'm sure it is not the file, in a couple of cases I
asked the senders to CC my personal, email address. I was able to confirm
the image was within limits, and also tried attaching it in a message from
myself, which worked in every test.

So I am somewhat confused as to what the problem might be, if it is not the
attachment...

My sample size is fairly small, but I'm suspicious that Apple users are
getting this problem preferentially.

What might it be? Perhaps the encoding used?

Any and all help very gratefully received!
Nick

-- 
*My page on the International Space Art
Network: http://spaceart1.ning.com/profile/NickStevens
<http://spaceart1.ning.com/profile/NickStevens>.*
My secure email: starbase1 at protonmail.ch

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 23 03:19:29 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 18:19:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments not getting through at random...
In-Reply-To: <CAMtaSBaq6=cF3kX7vu=kR9foAX4M43rcA+1tEoCGUvyHASb-GA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMtaSBaq6=cF3kX7vu=kR9foAX4M43rcA+1tEoCGUvyHASb-GA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5588B421.9080609@msapiro.net>

On 06/21/2015 10:55 AM, Nick Stevens via Mailman-Users wrote:
> Hi All,
> I'm new to the list - I did search the archives, but cannot find anything
> covering my specific case.


In the future and when following up, please post from your subscribed
(... at gmail.com) address, not ... at googlemail.com. Otherwise you run the
risk of your non-member post being discarded.


> My problem is with attachments to my list. For some users, attachments
> never get through. I'm sure it is not the file, in a couple of cases I
> asked the senders to CC my personal, email address. I was able to confirm
> the image was within limits, and also tried attaching it in a message from
> myself, which worked in every test.
> 
> So I am somewhat confused as to what the problem might be, if it is not the
> attachment...


What are your list's Content filtering settings. If filter_content is
Yes, what's in filter_mime_types, pass_mime_types,
filter_filename_extensions and pass_filename_extensions, and what is the
mime type and filename if any of the attachments that don't get through?

Also, if collapse_alternatives is Yes, it is possible that the messages
have a MIME structure like

multipart/alternative
    multipart/related
        text/html
        image/jpeg

or something similar. I.e. a plain text alternative and a
multipart/related alternative with html and images or something similar.
collapse_alternatives will keep only the text/plain part.

If filter_content is No, then Mailman shouldn't be removing any
attachments, at least assuming Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest is no.


> My sample size is fairly small, but I'm suspicious that Apple users are
> getting this problem preferentially.


Quite possible as Apple Mail is known to create 'unusual' MIME
structures. You may not be accepting some multipart subtypes that it uses.


> What might it be? Perhaps the encoding used?


Encoding shouldn't affect this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 23 03:26:30 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 18:26:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to force mailman send a message to all
 members at a time?
In-Reply-To: <5587D8F4.9010301@goodseasontravel.com>
References: <5587D8F4.9010301@goodseasontravel.com>
Message-ID: <5588B5C6.4030508@msapiro.net>

On 06/22/2015 02:44 AM, surdet wrote:
> I have installed mailman version 2.1.12 with postfix. I have 6 members
> of a list. I found some time  mailman send a message to 4 members and 10
> minutes later it send a message to 2 members remaining. How can I force
> mailman send a message to all members at a time?


Mailman or Postfix? If Postfix is accepting all the recipients, the all
should be delivered at about the same time.

One possibility is Mailman starts delivering to Postfix and the initial
transaction gets Postfix going and it delivers the 4 it's seen to that
point and then goes to sleep for a while before checking it's queue again.

Check your Postfix logs to determine when the messages arrive and when
they are processed. This is likely a Postfix issue.

Also look at Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs to see what they
say about delivery times and any retryable failures.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jimpop at gmail.com  Tue Jun 23 03:44:19 2015
From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 21:44:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR logging support
In-Reply-To: <87616fffu3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAGfsgR1O92pOOg7ferqU1bp7q12iLK7uA3N0-VGiugohsT72Jw@mail.gmail.com>
 <87616fffu3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAGfsgR3d9s9hya+2n7y8e20ka+k98M6mBGbyv_O-fHdRi3KV9w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 8:06 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
> Are you proposing this for inclusion in a future Mailman distribution?

Yes, at least for the 2.x trunk.

> If so, RFC 7239 Forwarded-For should be supported as well.

Sure, that makes good sense to add.

> Also, since one of the purposes of this information appears to be
> detection of attacks of various kinds, I would think that instead of
> falling back to REMOTE_HOST or REMOTE_ADDR, you would want to collect
> all of them.  After all, this is cheap since you're getting it from
> the HTTP headers, no DNS lookups or whatever involved, they've already
> been done.

For the purpose of something like fail2ban all that is needed is the
IPaddr.   Having all the others would be a "nice to have", but would
really drive up the patch size.

> This especially applies to REMOTE_HOST vs. REMOTE_ADDR.

REMOTE_HOST is subject to swift changes, whereas REMOTE_ADDR is what
actually connected to the server.  One you can bank on, the other is
always suspect, imo.

-Jim P.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 23 07:02:37 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 22:02:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DKIM best practise
In-Reply-To: <87bng8fl82.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <558615EE.1050200@endlessvoid.com> <5586DC4D.2060409@msapiro.net>
 <558773B7.1010101@endlessvoid.com> <87bng8fl82.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <5588E86D.7080708@msapiro.net>

On 06/21/2015 08:58 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Yasir Assam writes:
> 
>  > I noticed that this list, mailman-users at python.org, doesn't add a
>  > DKIM header unless the list itself generates the email, i.e. the
>  > email you sent to this list only has your DKIM header
>  > (d=msapiro.net), whereas the original welcome email has DKIM with
>  > d=python.org.
> 
> IIUC, Mark has input into, but does not control, policy on
> mail.python.org.  People have different experience with, and therefore
> opinions on policy, about these things.


Steve's understanding is correct.


> As Mark already said, according to the standards it is correct and
> good practice to add a DKIM signature to every message you process
> outside of the MTA and then reinject into the Internet mail system.
> In more friendly terms, if you simply pass on the message *exactly* as
> received except for adding "Received" and 2List-Post" to the front of
> the message, you don't need to DKIM sign but it doesn't hurt.  But if
> you change the message (eg, by adding a list signature or by adding
> the list name to the Subject field), you *should* DKIM sign.


Right.

But, we are actually dealing with two issues here: DKIM signing as a
general practice and DKIM signing specifically to address DMARC issues.

Yes, it is good practice to DKIM sign for your domain all mail which is
sent by servers in your domain. You are essentially saying yes, I made
transformations to this message that broke its original DKIM signature,
but I am taking responsibility for this message and if my DKIM sig is
valid, I vouch for this mail.

DMARC however puts a more stringent requirement on a message. It says
that if a message is From: a domain that publishes a DMARC policy, and
there isn't a valid SPF or DKIM signature whose domain 'aligns' (i.e. is
the same as in some sense) with the domain in the From: address,
recipients should handle the message in accord with the From: domain's
DMARC policy.

Thus, as a mailing list that makes modifications to messages that break
DKIM sigs, it doesn't help a message From: ... at yahoo.com pass DMARC for
me to DKIM sign it with my domain unless I also change the From: address
to my domain or at least to a domain without a DMARC policy other than
"none".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From al-black at telus.net  Tue Jun 23 07:55:02 2015
From: al-black at telus.net (Al's mail)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 23:55:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stopped sending mail
Message-ID: <3E96661E-2BCC-42F4-BD8D-0D5B18D6FA88@telus.net>

Hi everyone,

I?m having problems with my mailman installation.  Its running on a FreeBSD 10.1 and mailman version is 2.1.20.

I?ve been tracking an intermittent delivery problem with digests, the reports were of ?missing digests?.  I couldn?t see anything other than the usual non-delivery reasons ? busy hotmail and yahoo servers.  All good.  After getting reports about no mail I checked today;  mail is going in its just not getting out.

A couple of directories had the ownership changed to web, so I restored those.  

I checked mailman error log, and the last entry is:

Jun 12 06:30:44 2015 (35925) admindb: No such list ?lls)":

So I ran check_db with these results: Nothing to do.

Ran check_perms with the following results:

Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
         This could allow other users on your system to read private archives.
         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
         installation manual on how to fix this.
No problems found

The archive warning isn?t a problem, because none of the lists are archived.

I?ve also done a mailmanctl stop -s and restart.  Top and ps shows its running.

Looking at the smtp-failure logs, I?m seeing these kinds of errors:

Jun 22 22:16:19 2015 (84960) delivery to ***@ipederson.com failed with code -1: please run connect() first
Jun 22 22:16:19 2015 (84960) delivery to dude at sbcglobal.net failed with code -1: Connection unexpectedly closed
Jun 22 22:16:19 2015 (84960) delivery to somebody at yahoo.com failed with code -1: please run connect() first

Any thoughts what might be going on, or what I should look at next?

Thanks in advance

al

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Jun 23 08:31:52 2015
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 15:31:52 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR logging support
In-Reply-To: <CAGfsgR3d9s9hya+2n7y8e20ka+k98M6mBGbyv_O-fHdRi3KV9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGfsgR1O92pOOg7ferqU1bp7q12iLK7uA3N0-VGiugohsT72Jw@mail.gmail.com>
 <87616fffu3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAGfsgR3d9s9hya+2n7y8e20ka+k98M6mBGbyv_O-fHdRi3KV9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87381jey07.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jim Popovitch writes:

 > For the purpose of something like fail2ban all that is needed is
 > the IPaddr.  Having all the others would be a "nice to have", but
 > would really drive up the patch size.

>From 10 lines to 20?  I'd be more worried about the size of message or
msgdata objects.

 > REMOTE_HOST is subject to swift changes, whereas REMOTE_ADDR is what
 > actually connected to the server.  One you can bank on, the other is
 > always suspect, imo.

Sure, and that's precisely why I'd want both.  Rapid changes of
REMOTE_HOST associated with the same REMOTE_ADDR would be a pretty
clear sign that something bad is going on.

On the other hand, bad guys typically have access to a bunch of IP
addresses if they need them.  I don't think REMOTE_ADDR is necessarily
all that good a way to identify a miscreant.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Jun 23 10:07:42 2015
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 17:07:42 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR logging support
In-Reply-To: <87381jey07.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAGfsgR1O92pOOg7ferqU1bp7q12iLK7uA3N0-VGiugohsT72Jw@mail.gmail.com>
 <87616fffu3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAGfsgR3d9s9hya+2n7y8e20ka+k98M6mBGbyv_O-fHdRi3KV9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <87381jey07.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <87ioaeyhip.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

P.S. I'm not at all opposed to the patch as you propose it, I'm just
thinking about loud about extensions.  It's all blue sky though, and
you have a concrete reason for this.  As the Timbot said:

    Now is better than never.
    Although never is often better than *right* now.

The first is for you, the second is for me. :-)


From surdet at goodseasontravel.com  Tue Jun 23 11:10:36 2015
From: surdet at goodseasontravel.com (surdet)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 16:10:36 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to force mailman send a message to all
 members at a time?
In-Reply-To: <5588B5C6.4030508@msapiro.net>
References: <5587D8F4.9010301@goodseasontravel.com>
 <5588B5C6.4030508@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5589228C.8010106@goodseasontravel.com>

I looked at smtp-failure log file and I found my mistake, I have used 
postfwd to limit the amount of the receipts So I increase its values.

Thanks for your advice,
Mr.Suradet C.

On 06/23/2015 08:26 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/22/2015 02:44 AM, surdet wrote:
>> I have installed mailman version 2.1.12 with postfix. I have 6 members
>> of a list. I found some time  mailman send a message to 4 members and 10
>> minutes later it send a message to 2 members remaining. How can I force
>> mailman send a message to all members at a time?
>
> Mailman or Postfix? If Postfix is accepting all the recipients, the all
> should be delivered at about the same time.
>
> One possibility is Mailman starts delivering to Postfix and the initial
> transaction gets Postfix going and it delivers the 4 it's seen to that
> point and then goes to sleep for a while before checking it's queue again.
>
> Check your Postfix logs to determine when the messages arrive and when
> they are processed. This is likely a Postfix issue.
>
> Also look at Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs to see what they
> say about delivery times and any retryable failures.
>


From jimpop at gmail.com  Tue Jun 23 14:31:44 2015
From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 08:31:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR logging support
In-Reply-To: <87381jey07.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAGfsgR1O92pOOg7ferqU1bp7q12iLK7uA3N0-VGiugohsT72Jw@mail.gmail.com>
 <87616fffu3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAGfsgR3d9s9hya+2n7y8e20ka+k98M6mBGbyv_O-fHdRi3KV9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <87381jey07.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAGfsgR2MSD3M-TrLcMH1OkLaPaH7RY3iSgB-Be8pVF_K0YNsTw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:31 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
> Jim Popovitch writes:
>
>  > For the purpose of something like fail2ban all that is needed is
>  > the IPaddr.  Having all the others would be a "nice to have", but
>  > would really drive up the patch size.
>
> From 10 lines to 20?  I'd be more worried about the size of message or
> msgdata objects.

My concern was introducing the smallest change necessary.  I have a
pet-peeve about unnecessarily large code changes to mature software.
;-)

>  > REMOTE_HOST is subject to swift changes, whereas REMOTE_ADDR is what
>  > actually connected to the server.  One you can bank on, the other is
>  > always suspect, imo.
>
> Sure, and that's precisely why I'd want both.  Rapid changes of
> REMOTE_HOST associated with the same REMOTE_ADDR would be a pretty
> clear sign that something bad is going on.

Well, the log messages ("Login failure", "Malformed path") indicates
that something bad is occurring, at that point I presume a fail2ban
block should take over.  And just incase it's not clear, the IP I
would want to block is the one connecting to my servers, even if that
IP is some other proxied proxy^2.   I don't mean to sound like an
asshat but I could care less about what the remote system uses for any
rDNS when they are attempting malicious things on my servers.

> On the other hand, bad guys typically have access to a bunch of IP
> addresses if they need them.  I don't think REMOTE_ADDR is necessarily
> all that good a way to identify a miscreant.

True, but it's a perfect way to block the miscreant's vector.   The
same issues exist elsewhere on the web, you block what you can based
on any reliable data you have. :-)

-Jim P.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 23 18:39:04 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 09:39:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stopped sending mail
In-Reply-To: <3E96661E-2BCC-42F4-BD8D-0D5B18D6FA88@telus.net>
References: <3E96661E-2BCC-42F4-BD8D-0D5B18D6FA88@telus.net>
Message-ID: <55898BA8.2060204@msapiro.net>

On 06/22/2015 10:55 PM, Al's mail wrote:
> 
> I?ve also done a mailmanctl stop -s and restart.  Top and ps shows its running.


mailmanctl and all 8 qrunners?


> Looking at the smtp-failure logs, I?m seeing these kinds of errors:
> 
> Jun 22 22:16:19 2015 (84960) delivery to ***@ipederson.com failed with code -1: please run connect() first
> Jun 22 22:16:19 2015 (84960) delivery to dude at sbcglobal.net failed with code -1: Connection unexpectedly closed
> Jun 22 22:16:19 2015 (84960) delivery to somebody at yahoo.com failed with code -1: please run connect() first


Please see the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4030723> and
<http://wiki.list.org/x/4030716> (and others linked therefrom) for help
with this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Jeffrey.Westgate at arkansas.gov  Thu Jun 25 17:17:19 2015
From: Jeffrey.Westgate at arkansas.gov (Jeffrey Westgate)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 15:17:19 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Forced Migration nightmare
Message-ID: <A36B14FA9AA67F4E836C0EE59DEA89C49AFED64D@CM-SAS-MBX-06.sas.arkgov.net>

Our guru kicked off his mortal coil and left me with a bunch of old linux servers.  Not normally a problem.... normally, as I'm fairly adept and learn quickly.

Our list server crashed, unrecoverably.  I'm trying to resurrect it - from rhel5 to rhel7, on a new VM. Using Mailman version: 2.1.9

We've recovered everything from our backup, but I'm danged if I can figure out why it isn't sending mail

I am to the point of building another (third) VM, and scratch loading.

Is there a concise 'migration' guide that a novice (to mailman) could make sense out of to get our list server back online?


--
Jeff Westgate
State of Arkansas DIS
UNIX System Administration


PS - if any of you knew Stephen L Johnson of Little Rock, AR, take a moment to remember him. List manager(s)- if he was a member, he is no longer....

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 26 08:09:18 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 23:09:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Forced Migration nightmare
In-Reply-To: <A36B14FA9AA67F4E836C0EE59DEA89C49AFED64D@CM-SAS-MBX-06.sas.arkgov.net>
References: <A36B14FA9AA67F4E836C0EE59DEA89C49AFED64D@CM-SAS-MBX-06.sas.arkgov.net>
Message-ID: <558CEC8E.7040802@msapiro.net>

On 06/25/2015 08:17 AM, Jeffrey Westgate wrote:
> 
> We've recovered everything from our backup, but I'm danged if I can figure out why it isn't sending mail


See the troubleshooting FAQ article at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4030723>
and the installation manual at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html>

If you still have trouble, please try to give us more specific
information about what you do and what happens including MTA and Mailman
log messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From draksler at mcmaster.ca  Sat Jun 27 02:35:42 2015
From: draksler at mcmaster.ca (Peter Draksler)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 20:35:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration missing held messages
Message-ID: <558DEFDE.9040205@mcmaster.ca>


Hello,

I've been tasked with migrating an old Mailman 2.0.8 install on an old 
Solaris 8 server to RHEL running Mailman 2.1.12.

Everything was going quite smoothly and thought I was almost ready to 
proceed with the migration in production but held messages are missing 
in migrated lists.

I did find the held messages are in /var/lib/mailman/data and migrated 
them but the admin GUI shows there are No Pending Requests.

Doing a dumpdb on the migrated request.db file lists all the held 
messages but they're not in the request.pck file.

The config.db file was converted to config.pck without any issues.  Is 
there something I missed?

Thanks,
Peter

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 27 17:59:54 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 08:59:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration missing held messages
In-Reply-To: <558DEFDE.9040205@mcmaster.ca>
References: <558DEFDE.9040205@mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <558EC87A.7000909@msapiro.net>

On 06/26/2015 05:35 PM, Peter Draksler wrote:
> 
> I did find the held messages are in /var/lib/mailman/data and migrated
> them but the admin GUI shows there are No Pending Requests.
> 
> Doing a dumpdb on the migrated request.db file lists all the held
> messages but they're not in the request.pck file.


I'm not sure how this happened. How exactly did you do the migration. If
you did something which ran bin/update, It should migrate the requests.
Even now, if you still have the requests.db files in the lists/LISTNAME/
directories, running 'bin/update --force' may do it.


> The config.db file was converted to config.pck without any issues.  Is
> there something I missed?


It is a good idea, after migration is complete to remove the old
config.db and config.db.last files and probably the requests.db as well.

The reason is that if for some reason at some future time, there is an
issue with the config.pck(.last) files, Mailman will fall back the the
config.db if it's there, and all of a sudden your list reverts to an old
state. It's better to discover the issue when it occurs than to find out
days or more later that the list has reverted to an old state.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From draksler at mcmaster.ca  Sat Jun 27 22:19:28 2015
From: draksler at mcmaster.ca (Peter Draksler)
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 16:19:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration missing held messages
In-Reply-To: <558EC87A.7000909@msapiro.net>
References: <558DEFDE.9040205@mcmaster.ca> <558EC87A.7000909@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <558F0550.606@mcmaster.ca>

On 15-06-27 11:59 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/26/2015 05:35 PM, Peter Draksler wrote:
>>
>> I did find the held messages are in /var/lib/mailman/data and migrated
>> them but the admin GUI shows there are No Pending Requests.
>>
>> Doing a dumpdb on the migrated request.db file lists all the held
>> messages but they're not in the request.pck file.
>
>
> I'm not sure how this happened. How exactly did you do the migration. If
> you did something which ran bin/update, It should migrate the requests.
> Even now, if you still have the requests.db files in the lists/LISTNAME/
> directories, running 'bin/update --force' may do it.

Thanks Mark, running 'bin/update --force' updated the held requests 
database; created request.pck and deleted request.db.  I did run 
'bin/update' earlier but that only resulted in "No updates are necessary".

To answer your question, I just created a tar of the /archives /lists 
and /data directories of the lists that are being migrated on the old 
server and then extracted them on the new.

>> The config.db file was converted to config.pck without any issues.  Is
>> there something I missed?
>
>
> It is a good idea, after migration is complete to remove the old
> config.db and config.db.last files and probably the requests.db as well.
>
> The reason is that if for some reason at some future time, there is an
> issue with the config.pck(.last) files, Mailman will fall back the the
> config.db if it's there, and all of a sudden your list reverts to an old
> state. It's better to discover the issue when it occurs than to find out
> days or more later that the list has reverted to an old state.

Thanks for the advice, I'll be sure to add deleting the config.db* files 
at the end of the migration script.

Thanks again!

Peter



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 27 22:36:48 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 13:36:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration missing held messages
In-Reply-To: <558F0550.606@mcmaster.ca>
References: <558DEFDE.9040205@mcmaster.ca> <558EC87A.7000909@msapiro.net>
 <558F0550.606@mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <558F0960.9020302@msapiro.net>

On 06/27/2015 01:19 PM, Peter Draksler wrote:
> 
> Thanks Mark, running 'bin/update --force' updated the held requests
> database; created request.pck and deleted request.db.  I did run
> 'bin/update' earlier but that only resulted in "No updates are necessary".
> 
> To answer your question, I just created a tar of the /archives /lists
> and /data directories of the lists that are being migrated on the old
> server and then extracted them on the new.


bin/update won't do anything without the --force option unless
data/last_mailman_version has an older version than that of the current
install.  Mailman knows how to migrate/update config.(db|pck) files from
older versions on the fly, but other things are only updated by bin/update.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ler at lerctr.org  Tue Jun 30 00:16:50 2015
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 17:16:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DNS Rdatatype?
Message-ID: <dfc6eb4e485fb4a627922a0d18880d99@thebighonker.lerctr.org>

I'm all of a sudden getting:
Jun 29 18:08:20 2015 (8150) SHUNTING: 
1435615060.9881611+e8abd6ef95261ff0597e9e286d119a4a74b80ef2
Jun 29 18:08:20 2015 (8150) Uncaught runner exception: 'module' object 
has no attribute 'rdatatype'
Jun 29 18:08:20 2015 (8150) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 119, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 190, in _onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in 
_dispose
     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in 
_dopipeline
     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 104, in 
process
     if Utils.IsDMARCProhibited(mlist, addr):
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 1156, in 
IsDMARCProhibited
     txt_recs = resolver.query(dmarc_domain, dns.rdatatype.TXT)
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'rdatatype'

on a reinstall after a CentOS Upgrade.

I've installed the latest dnspython (1.12.0), and not sure where else to 
look.

python 2.4.3


-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-642-9640                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 108 Turvey Cove, Hutto, TX 78634-5688

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 30 04:47:36 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 19:47:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DNS Rdatatype?
In-Reply-To: <dfc6eb4e485fb4a627922a0d18880d99@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
References: <dfc6eb4e485fb4a627922a0d18880d99@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <55920348.4010302@msapiro.net>

On 06/29/2015 03:16 PM, Larry Rosenman wrote:
> I'm all of a sudden getting:
> Jun 29 18:08:20 2015 (8150) SHUNTING:
> 1435615060.9881611+e8abd6ef95261ff0597e9e286d119a4a74b80ef2
...
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 104, in
> process
>     if Utils.IsDMARCProhibited(mlist, addr):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 1156, in IsDMARCProhibited
>     txt_recs = resolver.query(dmarc_domain, dns.rdatatype.TXT)
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'rdatatype'
> 
> on a reinstall after a CentOS Upgrade.
> 
> I've installed the latest dnspython (1.12.0), and not sure where else to
> look.


Did you restart Mailman after the dnspython install?

What if you invoke the Python that Mailman uses and do

>>> import dns.resolver
>>> dns.rdatatype.TXT
16
>>>

Note that if you just

import dns

you will get the AttributeError upon reference to dns.rdatatype.TXT, but
it should work after importing dns.resolver which Utils.py does.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ler at lerctr.org  Tue Jun 30 04:51:13 2015
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 21:51:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DNS Rdatatype?
In-Reply-To: <55920348.4010302@msapiro.net>
References: <dfc6eb4e485fb4a627922a0d18880d99@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920348.4010302@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <85b83de205d36faaed987a6de8df881d@thebighonker.lerctr.org>

On 2015-06-29 21:47, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/29/2015 03:16 PM, Larry Rosenman wrote:
>> I'm all of a sudden getting:
>> Jun 29 18:08:20 2015 (8150) SHUNTING:
>> 1435615060.9881611+e8abd6ef95261ff0597e9e286d119a4a74b80ef2
> ...
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 104, in
>> process
>>     if Utils.IsDMARCProhibited(mlist, addr):
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 1156, in 
>> IsDMARCProhibited
>>     txt_recs = resolver.query(dmarc_domain, dns.rdatatype.TXT)
>> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'rdatatype'
>> 
>> on a reinstall after a CentOS Upgrade.
>> 
>> I've installed the latest dnspython (1.12.0), and not sure where else 
>> to
>> look.
> 
> 
> Did you restart Mailman after the dnspython install?
Yes.
> 
> What if you invoke the Python that Mailman uses and do
> 
>>>> import dns.resolver
>>>> dns.rdatatype.TXT
> 16
>>>> 
> 
> Note that if you just
> 
> import dns
> 
> you will get the AttributeError upon reference to dns.rdatatype.TXT, 
> but
> it should work after importing dns.resolver which Utils.py does.

[root at gothamweb02 ~]# python
Python 2.4.3 (#1, Jan  9 2013, 06:47:03)
[GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-54)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import dns.resolver
>>> dns.rdatatype.TXT
16
>>> 
[root at gothamweb02 ~]#

-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-642-9640                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 108 Turvey Cove, Hutto, TX 78634-5688


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 30 05:09:12 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 20:09:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DNS Rdatatype?
In-Reply-To: <85b83de205d36faaed987a6de8df881d@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
References: <dfc6eb4e485fb4a627922a0d18880d99@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920348.4010302@msapiro.net>
 <85b83de205d36faaed987a6de8df881d@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <55920858.3010202@msapiro.net>

On 06/29/2015 07:51 PM, Larry Rosenman wrote:
> 
> [root at gothamweb02 ~]# python
> Python 2.4.3 (#1, Jan  9 2013, 06:47:03)
> [GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-54)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import dns.resolver
>>>> dns.rdatatype.TXT
> 16
>>>>
> [root at gothamweb02 ~]#
> 


Look at /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py. Near the beginning do you see

try:
    import dns.resolver
    from dns.exception import DNSException
    dns_resolver = True
except ImportError:
    dns_resolver = False


If not, what do you see for imports of 'dns' modules?

Also, how do you start Mailman. If via an init.d script what Python does
it use (Note that a definition of PYTHON may be overridden by something
imported from /etc/sysconfig).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ler at lerctr.org  Tue Jun 30 05:15:35 2015
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 22:15:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DNS Rdatatype?
In-Reply-To: <55920858.3010202@msapiro.net>
References: <dfc6eb4e485fb4a627922a0d18880d99@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920348.4010302@msapiro.net>
 <85b83de205d36faaed987a6de8df881d@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920858.3010202@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <15b0152f664ca08c8bbe98dda539e4d4@thebighonker.lerctr.org>

On 2015-06-29 22:09, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/29/2015 07:51 PM, Larry Rosenman wrote:
>> 
>> [root at gothamweb02 ~]# python
>> Python 2.4.3 (#1, Jan  9 2013, 06:47:03)
>> [GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-54)] on linux2
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>>> import dns.resolver
>>>>> dns.rdatatype.TXT
>> 16
>>>>> 
>> [root at gothamweb02 ~]#
>> 
> 
> 
> Look at /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py. Near the beginning do you 
> see
> 
> try:
>     import dns.resolver
>     from dns.exception import DNSException
>     dns_resolver = True
> except ImportError:
>     dns_resolver = False
> 
> 
> If not, what do you see for imports of 'dns' modules?
> 
> Also, how do you start Mailman. If via an init.d script what Python 
> does
> it use (Note that a definition of PYTHON may be overridden by something
> imported from /etc/sysconfig).
Those lines ARE there:
try:
     import dns.resolver
     from dns.exception import DNSException
     dns_resolver = True
except ImportError:
     dns_resolver = False

init.d script:
[root at gothamweb02 Mailman]# more /etc/init.d/mailman
#!/bin/sh
#
# mailman    This shell script starts and stops GNU Mailman.
#
# Copyright (C) 2001-2003 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 
02110-1301, USA.
#
# Copy this file to /etc/init.d/ (or /etc/rc.d/init.d/ depending on
# your system) and activate it as such:
#
# On Debian, type "update-rc.d mailman defaults"
# On RedHat, and derivatives, install with "chkconfig --add mailman"
#
# chkconfig: - 98 12
# description: Mailman is the GNU Mailing List Manager, a program that \
#              manages electronic mail discussion groups.  For more \
#              on GNU Mailman see http://www.list.org
# processname: mailmanctl
# config: /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
# pidfile: /var/run/mailman/master-qrunner.pid

MAILMANHOME=/usr/lib/mailman
MAILMANCTL=$MAILMANHOME/bin/mailmanctl

# We used to install the mailman cron jobs when the mailman rpm was
# installed, irrespective of whether mailman was actually being
# run. Although the cron jobs didn't create any problems if someone
# wasn't running mailman some users complained about the cron log file
# filling up, resource usage, and power consumption since systems
# wouldn't really idle. It really only makes sense to run the mailman
# cron jobs if the mailman service is turned on and not just merely
# having the rpm installed. This init.d script is an obvious place to
# install or remove the cron jobs based on the service being enabled
# or not.

SRC_CRON_SCRIPT=$MAILMANHOME/cron/crontab.in
DST_CRON_SCRIPT=/etc/cron.d/mailman

function InstallCron()
{
     install -m644 -o root -g root $SRC_CRON_SCRIPT $DST_CRON_SCRIPT
}

function RemoveCron()
{
cat > $DST_CRON_SCRIPT <<EOF
# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE!
#
# Contents of this file managed by /etc/init.d/mailman
# Master copy is /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in
# Consult that file for documentation
EOF
}

# Source function library.
. /etc/rc.d/init.d/functions

RETVAL=0
prog="mailman"

function start()
{
     echo -n $"Starting $prog: "
     daemon $MAILMANCTL -s -q start
     RETVAL=$?
     if [ $RETVAL -eq 0 ]
     then
	touch /var/lock/subsys/$prog
	InstallCron
     fi
     echo
     return $RETVAL
}

function stop()
{
     echo -n $"Shutting down $prog: "
     daemon $MAILMANCTL -q stop
     RETVAL=$?
     if [ $RETVAL -eq 0 ]
     then
	rm -f /var/lock/subsys/$prog
	RemoveCron
     fi
     echo
     return $RETVAL
}

function restart()
{
     stop
     start
     RETVAL=$?
     return $RETVAL
}

case "$1" in
'start')
     start
     RETVAL=$?
     ;;

'stop')
     stop
     RETVAL=$?
     ;;

'restart')
     restart
     RETVAL=$?
     ;;

'condrestart')
     $MAILMANCTL -q -u status
     retval=$?
     if [ $retval -eq 0 ]
     then
	restart
	RETVAL=$?
     fi
     ;;

'status')
     $MAILMANCTL -u status
     RETVAL=$?
     ;;

*)
     echo $"Usage: $prog {start|stop|restart|condrestart}"
	RETVAL=3
     ;;

esac
exit $RETVAL
[root at gothamweb02 Mailman]#

[root at gothamweb02 sysconfig]# ls
atd	     ip6tables-config	     pgsql
auditd	     ipmi		     pm-action
authconfig   iptables-config	     prelink
autofs	     iptables-config.rpmnew  raid-check
bluetooth    irda		     rawdevices
cbq	     irqbalance		     readonly-root
clock	     kernel		     rhn
conman	     keyboard		     run-parts
console      krb524		     samba
cpuspeed     kudzu		     saslauthd
crond	     mkinitrd		     selinux
desktop      modules		     smartmontools
dovecot      named		     squid
dsm_sa_ipmi  named.rpmnew	     syslog
dund	     netconsole		     system-config-securitylevel
firstboot    network		     system-config-users
grub	     networking		     tux
hidd	     network-scripts	     udev-stw
httpd	     nfs		     vncservers
hwconf	     nspluginwrapper	     wpa_supplicant
i18n	     ntpd		     xinetd
init	     pand
[root at gothamweb02 sysconfig]# grep PYTHON *
[root at gothamweb02 sysconfig]#

and the ONLY python is the system one in /usr/bin

-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-642-9640                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 108 Turvey Cove, Hutto, TX 78634-5688

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 30 05:25:09 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 20:25:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DNS Rdatatype?
In-Reply-To: <15b0152f664ca08c8bbe98dda539e4d4@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
References: <dfc6eb4e485fb4a627922a0d18880d99@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920348.4010302@msapiro.net>
 <85b83de205d36faaed987a6de8df881d@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920858.3010202@msapiro.net>
 <15b0152f664ca08c8bbe98dda539e4d4@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <55920C15.3020903@msapiro.net>

On 06/29/2015 08:15 PM, Larry Rosenman wrote:

> Those lines ARE there:
> try:
>     import dns.resolver
>     from dns.exception import DNSException
>     dns_resolver = True
> except ImportError:
>     dns_resolver = False
> 
> init.d script:
...
> MAILMANHOME=/usr/lib/mailman
> MAILMANCTL=$MAILMANHOME/bin/mailmanctl


What is the shebang line at the top of /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl?
Is it the python command you expect?

What if you do

sudo -u mailman python

and then do

import dns.resolver
dns.rdatatype.TXT

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ler at lerctr.org  Tue Jun 30 05:29:27 2015
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 22:29:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DNS Rdatatype?
In-Reply-To: <55920C15.3020903@msapiro.net>
References: <dfc6eb4e485fb4a627922a0d18880d99@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920348.4010302@msapiro.net>
 <85b83de205d36faaed987a6de8df881d@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920858.3010202@msapiro.net>
 <15b0152f664ca08c8bbe98dda539e4d4@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920C15.3020903@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <a1b17f43cd9e9eb49a1f8669ccce771c@thebighonker.lerctr.org>

On 2015-06-29 22:25, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/29/2015 08:15 PM, Larry Rosenman wrote:
> 
>> Those lines ARE there:
>> try:
>>     import dns.resolver
>>     from dns.exception import DNSException
>>     dns_resolver = True
>> except ImportError:
>>     dns_resolver = False
>> 
>> init.d script:
> ...
>> MAILMANHOME=/usr/lib/mailman
>> MAILMANCTL=$MAILMANHOME/bin/mailmanctl
> 
> 
> What is the shebang line at the top of /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl?
> Is it the python command you expect?
> 
> What if you do
> 
> sudo -u mailman python
> 
> and then do
> 
> import dns.resolver
> dns.rdatatype.TXT
root at gothamweb02 ~]# head /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl
#! /usr/bin/python

# Copyright (C) 2001-2013 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
[root at gothamweb02 ~]#


[root at gothamweb02 ~]# sudo -u mailman python
Python 2.4.3 (#1, Jan  9 2013, 06:47:03)
[GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-54)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import dns.resolver
>>> dns.rdatatype.TXT
16
>>> 
[root at gothamweb02 ~]#
-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-642-9640                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 108 Turvey Cove, Hutto, TX 78634-5688

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 30 05:44:43 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 20:44:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DNS Rdatatype?
In-Reply-To: <a1b17f43cd9e9eb49a1f8669ccce771c@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
References: <dfc6eb4e485fb4a627922a0d18880d99@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920348.4010302@msapiro.net>
 <85b83de205d36faaed987a6de8df881d@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920858.3010202@msapiro.net>
 <15b0152f664ca08c8bbe98dda539e4d4@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920C15.3020903@msapiro.net>
 <a1b17f43cd9e9eb49a1f8669ccce771c@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <559210AB.2090406@msapiro.net>

On 06/29/2015 08:29 PM, Larry Rosenman wrote:

> root at gothamweb02 ~]# head /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl
> #! /usr/bin/python
...
> 
> [root at gothamweb02 ~]# sudo -u mailman python
> Python 2.4.3 (#1, Jan  9 2013, 06:47:03)
> [GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-54)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import dns.resolver
>>>> dns.rdatatype.TXT
> 16
>>>>
> [root at gothamweb02 ~]#


I'm stumped. You could try

sudo -u mailman /usr/bin/python
...

just to be sure you've covered everything, but it probably won't be
different. If you haven't restarted Mailman recently, you could try that.

If nothing else helps, you could always add a line to Utils.py so it says

try:
    import dns.resolver
    import dns.rdatatype
    from dns.exception import DNSException
    dns_resolver = True
except ImportError:
    dns_resolver = False

and restart Mailman, but that shouldn't be necessary. Basically, we're
doing the exact thing that Mailman does as the mailman user and it
works, but not when Mailman does it. I can't explain that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ler at lerctr.org  Tue Jun 30 05:58:11 2015
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 22:58:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DNS Rdatatype?
In-Reply-To: <559210AB.2090406@msapiro.net>
References: <dfc6eb4e485fb4a627922a0d18880d99@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920348.4010302@msapiro.net>
 <85b83de205d36faaed987a6de8df881d@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920858.3010202@msapiro.net>
 <15b0152f664ca08c8bbe98dda539e4d4@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920C15.3020903@msapiro.net>
 <a1b17f43cd9e9eb49a1f8669ccce771c@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <559210AB.2090406@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <6b53e56eaa49f3d59e2c1047b14b6a6c@thebighonker.lerctr.org>

On 2015-06-29 22:44, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/29/2015 08:29 PM, Larry Rosenman wrote:
> 
>> root at gothamweb02 ~]# head /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl
>> #! /usr/bin/python
> ...
>> 
>> [root at gothamweb02 ~]# sudo -u mailman python
>> Python 2.4.3 (#1, Jan  9 2013, 06:47:03)
>> [GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-54)] on linux2
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>>> import dns.resolver
>>>>> dns.rdatatype.TXT
>> 16
>>>>> 
>> [root at gothamweb02 ~]#
> 
> 
> I'm stumped. You could try
> 
> sudo -u mailman /usr/bin/python
> ...
> 
> just to be sure you've covered everything, but it probably won't be
> different. If you haven't restarted Mailman recently, you could try 
> that.
> 
> If nothing else helps, you could always add a line to Utils.py so it 
> says
> 
> try:
>     import dns.resolver
>     import dns.rdatatype
>     from dns.exception import DNSException
>     dns_resolver = True
> except ImportError:
>     dns_resolver = False
> 
> and restart Mailman, but that shouldn't be necessary. Basically, we're
> doing the exact thing that Mailman does as the mailman user and it
> works, but not when Mailman does it. I can't explain that.

I've made that change and will monitor.....

Thanks for the help (I'm stumped too).

-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-642-9640                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 108 Turvey Cove, Hutto, TX 78634-5688


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 30 06:17:09 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 21:17:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DNS Rdatatype?
In-Reply-To: <6b53e56eaa49f3d59e2c1047b14b6a6c@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
References: <dfc6eb4e485fb4a627922a0d18880d99@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920348.4010302@msapiro.net>
 <85b83de205d36faaed987a6de8df881d@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920858.3010202@msapiro.net>
 <15b0152f664ca08c8bbe98dda539e4d4@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920C15.3020903@msapiro.net>
 <a1b17f43cd9e9eb49a1f8669ccce771c@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <559210AB.2090406@msapiro.net>
 <6b53e56eaa49f3d59e2c1047b14b6a6c@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <55921845.9030105@msapiro.net>

On 06/29/2015 08:58 PM, Larry Rosenman wrote:
> On 2015-06-29 22:44, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> If nothing else helps, you could always add a line to Utils.py so it says
>>
>> try:
>>     import dns.resolver
>>     import dns.rdatatype
>>     from dns.exception import DNSException
>>     dns_resolver = True
>> except ImportError:
>>     dns_resolver = False
>>
>> and restart Mailman, but that shouldn't be necessary. Basically, we're
>> doing the exact thing that Mailman does as the mailman user and it
>> works, but not when Mailman does it. I can't explain that.
> 
> I've made that change and will monitor.....
> 
> Thanks for the help (I'm stumped too).


You may already know this, but you can run Mailman's bin/unshunt to
requeue the shunted messages. If the problem is "fixed", the messages
will be processed, and if not, they'll be shunted again.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ler at lerctr.org  Tue Jun 30 14:32:22 2015
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 07:32:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DNS Rdatatype?
In-Reply-To: <55921845.9030105@msapiro.net>
References: <dfc6eb4e485fb4a627922a0d18880d99@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920348.4010302@msapiro.net>
 <85b83de205d36faaed987a6de8df881d@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920858.3010202@msapiro.net>
 <15b0152f664ca08c8bbe98dda539e4d4@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55920C15.3020903@msapiro.net>
 <a1b17f43cd9e9eb49a1f8669ccce771c@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <559210AB.2090406@msapiro.net>
 <6b53e56eaa49f3d59e2c1047b14b6a6c@thebighonker.lerctr.org>
 <55921845.9030105@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <14e447404f8.2846.a6b027662ce9a8103f88b1e74d3c5524@lerctr.org>

Yep.  I had made a temp patch and did that....


On June 29, 2015 11:17:13 PM Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 06/29/2015 08:58 PM, Larry Rosenman wrote:
> > On 2015-06-29 22:44, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >>
> >> If nothing else helps, you could always add a line to Utils.py so it says
> >>
> >> try:
> >>     import dns.resolver
> >>     import dns.rdatatype
> >>     from dns.exception import DNSException
> >>     dns_resolver = True
> >> except ImportError:
> >>     dns_resolver = False
> >>
> >> and restart Mailman, but that shouldn't be necessary. Basically, we're
> >> doing the exact thing that Mailman does as the mailman user and it
> >> works, but not when Mailman does it. I can't explain that.
> >
> > I've made that change and will monitor.....
> >
> > Thanks for the help (I'm stumped too).
>
>
> You may already know this, but you can run Mailman's bin/unshunt to
> requeue the shunted messages. If the problem is "fixed", the messages
> will be processed, and if not, they'll be shunted again.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gaja.php at gmail.com  Tue Jun 30 16:11:09 2015
From: gaja.php at gmail.com (Selva Gaja)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 19:41:09 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to execute command
Message-ID: <CAAzGjDQvgfjeEbu03N-GPeZXjE55w=k3gmT4s3VB9TtOJsxrFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am having permission problem in executing mailman command with group user.

Please give the solution and help me.

*Command working with root user:*
   sudo -u *root* -S /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/list_lists
   I can able to get the mailman mailing lists when i use the *root* user
in terminal.

Similarly, I am trying with another user *devuser*
   sudo -u *divhdpug* -S /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/list_lists

Following error occurred when I execute above command with *devuser.*

sudo: unable to execute /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/list_lists:
Permission denied

-- 
Thanks and Regards,
Selva Gajendran.S

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 30 17:13:00 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 08:13:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to execute command
In-Reply-To: <CAAzGjDQvgfjeEbu03N-GPeZXjE55w=k3gmT4s3VB9TtOJsxrFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAzGjDQvgfjeEbu03N-GPeZXjE55w=k3gmT4s3VB9TtOJsxrFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5592B1FC.9030302@msapiro.net>

On 06/30/2015 07:11 AM, Selva Gaja wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am having permission problem in executing mailman command with group user.
> 
> Please give the solution and help me.
> 
> *Command working with root user:*
>    sudo -u *root* -S /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/list_lists
>    I can able to get the mailman mailing lists when i use the *root* user
> in terminal.
> 
> Similarly, I am trying with another user *devuser*
>    sudo -u *divhdpug* -S /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/list_lists
> 
> Following error occurred when I execute above command with *devuser.*
> 
> sudo: unable to execute /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/list_lists:
> Permission denied


Mailman's command line scripts need to be run by root or a user in
mailman's group. If you want to run these commands as 'devuser', you
need to add devuser to Mailman's group..

Also see <http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20CPanel>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Y.Pericleous at albourne.com  Tue Jun 30 11:28:28 2015
From: Y.Pericleous at albourne.com (Yiannis Pericleous)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 09:28:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML footers in multipart emails
In-Reply-To: <1353633674.1784488.1435656451058.JavaMail.zimbra@albourne.com>
Message-ID: <1993545582.1784545.1435656508803.JavaMail.zimbra@albourne.com>

Hi,

I have a multipart (html and text) email and I wish to add an unsubscribe footer to it. However mailman appends the footer as a new section that is plain text. Is there a way of making the footer section text/html. If not, any other way to include the unsubscribe link in the html part of the email?

thanks

yiannis

From ron at webbnet.org  Tue Jun 30 21:56:00 2015
From: ron at webbnet.org (Ron Webb)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:56:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sub-lists
Message-ID: <CAGrTZgwZBxNhPCLoscMO1uOLoGZeVBqjpXrK=SUNeMqezgNwKw@mail.gmail.com>

I am looking to set-up a mailing list for a group of people but was hoping
there is a way to have sub-lists. For example, I'd like to have one group
be everyone, then another group that is regional. I was thinking of "
group-all at mydomain.com" for messages covering everyone but they could send
a message to "group-sacramento at mydomain.com" to and it will only go to
those that are interested in "Sacramento" specific messages. I would like
to make subscribers opt-in or opt-out of the regional. At this point, I
have not selected a hosting service yet. I wish to bring my own domain to
wherever I choose. I'm not sure if someone that just advertises that they
use Mailman is sufficient or if I need to find a hosting company that
provides shell access for setup is what I need. I'm sure there is some Wiki
or something if this sub-lists works but I must be using the wrong search
term for what I want.

Another thing that is important for me is I do NOT want to archive or cache
messages, at least for not much more than a day. For me, I work for a large
corporation. While it is a large corporation, those of us wishing this list
are like bastard step-children. We work with others from the same
corporation but we operate under completely different rules and a different
hierarchy. We seldom see each other because there is usually only one of us
working in an area at a time and we are spread out geographically. We are
represented by the same union that the majority of the employees of the
corporation are represented by, but since we do not have a common work
area, we have no way of having "water-cooler talk". As it is "water-cooler
talk", we do not wish it to be officially a part of the union nor the
corporation. If there is any concern about something said, as the
facilitator of communications, I wish to just say I do not save
communications. If a group member wishes to save something, that is up to
them, as is the case with how we are doing email now.

I will also wish to add some type of disclaimer that no one will probably
give it much thought, but it will state that statements made are the of the
sole responsibility of the author of the statement and they are not the
official opinion of the corporation nor the union and the maintainer of the
list does not archive messages. I'm sure I'll come up with much better
wording than that but I'm sure you get the gist.

I'm just hoping I've found the right product and can receive some advice
from those that have set up lists.