From glibersat at sigill.org  Sat Nov  1 13:49:53 2014
From: glibersat at sigill.org (Guillaume Libersat)
Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2014 13:49:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM3/Delivery Problem
In-Reply-To: <20141031145522.091a88ed@limelight.wooz.org>
References: <54524FC6.9090107@sigill.org> <54528DC2.6050706@msapiro.net>
 <5453D957.1050600@sigill.org> <20141031145522.091a88ed@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <5454D6F1.7010800@sigill.org>

Awesome!
Do you think it will be easy to migrate from an existing sqlite database
to a postgres one through SQLAlchemy? I tried to do it manually a few
days ago... and it took me such a longgggg time writing ah-hoc scripts
for almost nothing (the database is not really usable).
I'm really interested in testing the new backend if you need testers :)

Cheers,

Guillaume

Le 31/10/2014 19:55, Barry Warsaw a ?crit :
> On Oct 31, 2014, at 07:47 PM, Guillaume Libersat wrote:
>
>> The problem is now fixed... I don't really know what happened but it
>> seems it was related to sqlite3 and database locking.
>>
>> Thanks for helping, if I manage to find what really happened, I'll file
>> a bug report.
> Very soon (perhaps this weekend) I will land the port to SQLAlchemy as our ORM
> layer for MM3 in the trunk.  This is based on great work by Abhilash and
> Aurelien.  There have been some reports of SQLite locking problems in MM3 and
> it will be interesting to see whether the port from Storm to SA will fix that.
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/glibersat%40sigill.org

-- 
http://sigill.org


From exim4debian at gmail.com  Sun Nov  2 02:49:06 2014
From: exim4debian at gmail.com (James Nightly)
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 18:49:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Images on iPhone's not loading
In-Reply-To: <A804D906-B14A-4520-8EFB-D9C3160A6B3D@nuw.org.au>
References: <CAAQH7AdaUAW9tMwVESYf37saOjDpH4aBZ8QDpOz40bAm65tnNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <87sii62pi1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQH7AdCktgpUFbrUtYmTDNKBDBjtUHDXeBoARaPBFaNXTGnbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54529E66.5040502@msapiro.net>
 <CAAQH7AdFYc_fUtiz3GaMmfnO_5cZSpP4gSDB8WaxEEbVyhH9oA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A804D906-B14A-4520-8EFB-D9C3160A6B3D@nuw.org.au>
Message-ID: <CAAQH7Aff7BfWQypwmDd1XQQaAtdN9MfcuBznKp3Q1Sw7vt27Bg@mail.gmail.com>

Peter, as mentioned earlier the HTML newsletter with images displays
on everything but iPhone.


On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Peter Shute <pshute at nuw.org.au> wrote:
> Are these images attachments of the emails, or are they just linked into the html from elsewhere? If the latter, have you looked at the html to see if there are errors in it?
>
> Peter Shute
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 31 Oct 2014, at 8:35 am, James Nightly <exim4debian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I tried disabling dmarc completely and apparently there is still an
>> issue with HTML emails loading images on Apple iPhone Mail app.
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Nov  2 05:44:11 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 13:44:11 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Images on iPhone's not loading
In-Reply-To: <54529E66.5040502@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAQH7AdaUAW9tMwVESYf37saOjDpH4aBZ8QDpOz40bAm65tnNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <87sii62pi1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQH7AdCktgpUFbrUtYmTDNKBDBjtUHDXeBoARaPBFaNXTGnbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54529E66.5040502@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <87egtm1aas.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > On 10/30/2014 08:00 AM, James Nightly wrote:

 > > These messages are all HTML MIME-structured with multipart/mixed.
 > > Its a global issue, not a single iPhone/email/user -- its everyone
 > > with an iPhone, they can't read our newsletter. Images do not load.
 > > I tried using Gmail app and it seems to work! iPhone Mail app does not
 > > load images in the same message/account/phone/network.

Yes, that's a well-known issue and as Mark says it's purely an Apple
Mail app issue, and there's nothing we can do about it on Mailman
side.  As you noticed the setting of dmarc_moderation_action doesn't
matter.

There is something you can that may appease Apple's Mail app, and that
is to turn off *all* Mailman trimmings for *all* recipients.  That
means that you cannot have a footer or header (the text fields must be
*empty*, if they contain even whitespace MIME structure will be
added), and you cannot have a subject tag (like [Mailman-Users] in the
version of this message you get via the list) or post serial number.

Unfortunately there's no way to do this *only* for Apple Mail app
users (these are listwide settings, not per-user settings), and it's
pretty draconian.  I can't even promise it will work (that depends on
the posting MUA as well as on Apple Mail app), but it's an option that
you can decide whether you want to try.

Good luck!

Steve


From victoriano at uma.es  Sun Nov  2 16:46:46 2014
From: victoriano at uma.es (Victoriano Giralt)
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 16:46:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: [sympa-users] thoughts re. DMARC impacts
In-Reply-To: <544EE72C.2080708@meetinghouse.net>
References: <544EE72C.2080708@meetinghouse.net>
Message-ID: <545651E6.5030606@uma.es>

Folks, first my excuses for the "dual posting" but I did not want to
loose the odd Mailman developer that is not subscribed to the users list.

This has recently circulated in the sympa-users lists. As a proud member
of both communities I think that the synergy Miles proposes could really
have some impact. Actually, it would be great if the possible RFC had an
author from each and every list manager in existence (there are not so
many :)), or at least from the big ones, including the commercial
dinosaur, ListServ (I'm connected to a big instance of this beast, so I
might get a direct channel to them).

All this said, please, take a look at Miles message ;-)


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [sympa-users] thoughts re. DMARC impacts
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 20:45:32 -0400
From: Miles Fidelman <mfidelman at meetinghouse.net>
Reply-To: Miles Fidelman <mfidelman at meetinghouse.net>
To: sympa-users at cru.fr <sympa-users at cru.fr>,        dmarc at ietf.org
<dmarc at ietf.org>

Folks,

Many of us just had to deal with the impacts of DMARC on our lists.

In the aftermath, I've been participating on the dmarc-ietf email list -
 trying to discuss ways to "fix DMARC" to better coexist with lists and
other 3rd-party services (like "send this article to....").

Unfortunately, it seems like the discussion is bogged down in two regards:
- the ietf-dmarc working group is charted to "enhance DMARC" - dealing
with its impacts is not really the focus - folks want a general purpose
solution

Personally, I'd like to see a short-term solution to make our lives
easier, as list managers - sort of the way that NAT has been dealing
with IPv4 address exhaustion, while we wait for IPv6 to happen.

I've been thinking along the lines of an update to RFC2369 - the
16-year-old document defines the List-* headers.  Say by adding a couple
of headers along the lines of:
List-Original-Author: <the original author>
List-Original-Reply-To: <the original message's Reply-To>
List-Reply-To: <the list-specific reply-to - either author of list>

Seems to me that this would:
1. give us a standard way to find the original author (and for HTML
mail, to reply by clicking on a mailto: URL in the header)
2. provide standardized information that could be used by MUAs for
identifying, and presenting reply options (maybe leading to "reply to
list" and "reply to author" buttons starting to show up on toolbars)
3. set the stage for adding some authentication mechanisms that
accomplish what DMARC is intended to do (e.g. by adding a few more
headers that cryptographically authenticate the new List- headers and
bind them to the message body)

It strikes me that this might proceed rather quickly, if incorporated
into an RFC co-authored and submitted by folks from the mailing list
software community (i.e., the folks who'd write the patches to Sympa,
Mailman, ezmlm, etc) - particularly if some running code were to be
implemented as part of the process.  (Can you say, "rough consensus and
running code?")

Reactions?  Anybody want to collaborate on a draft RFC for submission
through the independent submissions path? Any thoughts on who needs to
be involved from the Sympa community, and/or from the other mailing list
software communities?

Miles Fidelman (a frustrated sympa administrator)





-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   .... Yogi Berra


-- 
Victoriano Giralt                             Central ICT Services
Systems Manager                               University of Malaga
+34952131415                                  SPAIN
==================================================================
Note: signature.asc is the electronic signature of present message
A: Yes.
> Q: Are you sure ?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email ?



-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 213 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20141102/fdf15559/attachment.sig>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov  3 05:12:43 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 13:12:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Fwd: [sympa-users] thoughts
	re. DMARC impacts
In-Reply-To: <545651E6.5030606@uma.es>
References: <544EE72C.2080708@meetinghouse.net>
	<545651E6.5030606@uma.es>
Message-ID: <87bnoo2a84.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Reply-To set to Mailman-Users.  Although actual work on an RFC
probably would be done by a developer, there's no reason to exclude
site admins and list owners, and the impact of DMARC is surely
apparent to developers, admins, and owners alike, as well as to our
subscribers.

Victoriano Giralt writes:

 > This has recently circulated in the sympa-users lists. As a proud member
 > of both communities I think that the synergy Miles proposes could really
 > have some impact.

Thank you for posting.  Mailman as an organization (through me, the
more or less official delegate to the DMARC Working Group - below,
just "the WG") is well aware of Miles' proposal.  In short, I'm
opposed to it in current form, both personally and on behalf of
Mailman.

That said, I welcome discussion and advocacy of his point of view, and
if the Mailman community goes there, we can either delegate more
people to advocate it or I can do my best to present the Mailman
consensus as well as my own view (assuming it doesn't change in
response to further advocacy :-).

The rest is tl;dr, I suppose, but it is a complete and I hope fair
summary of discussion of these proposals on the dmarc at ieft.org list:
    http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dmarc/

 > Subject: [sympa-users] thoughts re. DMARC impacts
 > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 20:45:32 -0400
 > From: Miles Fidelman <mfidelman at meetinghouse.net>

 > Many of us just had to deal with the impacts of DMARC on our lists.
 > 
 > In the aftermath, I've been participating on the dmarc-ietf email
 > list - trying to discuss ways to "fix DMARC" to better coexist with
 > lists and other 3rd-party services (like "send this article
 > to....").
 > 
 > Unfortunately, it seems like the discussion is bogged down in two regards:
 > - the ietf-dmarc working group is charted to "enhance DMARC" - dealing
 > with its impacts is not really the focus - folks want a general purpose
 > solution

This is false.  The charter is public:
    http://tools.ietf.org/wg/dmarc/charters

In fact, Miles' proposal, and several similar ones, have received a
lot of attention from the WG.  Nobody has claimed it's out of WG scope
or tried to shut down discussion on that basis, although it's "off
current focus".  It's true that two specific participants are strong
proponents of "general purpose solutions", but they are "special
interests" (a party of 2, or perhaps 2 parties of 1 ;-).  The people
who are the backbone of the WG have on average two *decades* of
experience in creating email-related and other Internet standards, and
they are quite happy to consider incremental improvements, two of
which (the *-dkim-* Internet Drafts) are cited below.

Currently, the WG's focus is on figuring out just what those impacts
are, it's true, and that is a "general purpose" task.  Nevertheless,
many members of the WG are open to "off-focus" work as individuals,
and the WG wiki is open as a forum for presenting "off-focus" ideas to
be addressed ad hoc by individuals or by the WG in the future.
    http://tools.ietf.org/wg/dmarc/trac/wiki

 > Personally, I'd like to see a short-term solution to make our lives
 > easier, as list managers - sort of the way that NAT has been dealing
 > with IPv4 address exhaustion, while we wait for IPv6 to happen.

This is an excellent analogy.  NAT has caused almost as many problems
as it solved, especially in the security area.  Miles' proposal would
be the same IMO.

 > I've been thinking along the lines of an update to RFC2369 - the
 > 16-year-old document defines the List-* headers.  Say by adding a couple
 > of headers along the lines of:
 > List-Original-Author: <the original author>
 > List-Original-Reply-To: <the original message's Reply-To>

These two have trivial generalizations which apply to some of the
other third-party issues created by DMARC.  Specifically, just drop
the "List-" prefix.  This generalization *will* occur -- those users
will perceive the utility to themselves, and just start using it.  The
misnaming may not cause problems, but why invite them when we don't
have to?

By either name (or slight variations, such as "Original-From" and
"X-Original-From" -- the latter has long been used by GMail for
internal purposes, apparently), this proposal has the following
design issues that must be resolved:

1.  It changes the semantics of the From field defined by RFC 5322.
    According to RFC 5322, From is the definitive field indicating the
    author of the message content in a sense made somewhat precise in
    that RFC and other email RFCs.  This proposal would add a very
    general "except when it isn't" clause to that definition,
    requiring updates to every MUA in use.  It may affect many other
    RFCs as well -- specifically but not limited to all email
    authentication RFCs that propose to address the phishing problem.

2.  Advocates of such headers are sharply divided on proposed
    semantics.  Some (Google, Scott Kitterman on the WG ML) consider
    that the semantics should be restricted to the Reply-To function,
    and otherwise be invisible to end users.  Miles himself clearly
    favors "really truly From" semantics that would encourage MUAs to
    make it visible.

    I believe that in practice Miles' interpretation would win, and in
    that case I'm quite sure that there would be zero-day exploits by
    phishers (unless the DMARC folks get there first by implementing
    DKIM signatures applied to empty Original-Author fields!)

3.  No serious consideration has been given to potential new exploits
    or social engineering under either semantics, although the
    possibility of generalizing existing phishing techniques under the
    "really truly from" interpretation are painfully obvious.

4.  No consideration has been given to precise semantics of
    Original-Reply-To.

5.  No consideration has been given to alternative use of, or
    interaction with combined with, existing Resent-* fields.

6.  No consideration has been given to multiple instances of the
    Original-* fields.

In my opinion, some of these issues (1, 2, 3) cannot be resolved
satisfactorily in a reasonable amount of time, and therefore the
proposal is fatally flawed as a "fast-track" IETF document.  It could
proceed (as DMARC itself did!) as a private agreement between mailing
lists and MUA developers.

The argument that an IETF RFC would make coordination with MUA
developers easier is valid but weak.  The popular MUA developers do
not really consider RFCs in their designs (several have told me this,
including Mozilla folks).  Rather, they wait for implementations to
appear in wide use, and then leverage those implementations as serves
their users.

 > List-Reply-To: <the list-specific reply-to - either author of list>

I have an old proposal related to this, with the intent of mitigating
the Reply-To munging issue.  (I'm not sure what Miles wants it for.)
I'll dig it up.  N.B. I never submitted an Internet Draft, that's when
the MUA authors told me they ignore such things. :-)

 > Seems to me that this would:
 > 1. give us a standard way to find the original author

Correct.

 > (and for HTML mail, to reply by clicking on a mailto: URL in the
 > header)

[Aside: This feature isn't at all restricted to HTML mail.  It's just
a function of the MUA's presentation capabilities, and some text-
oriented MUAs provide hotkeys for navigating and activating links.]

 > 2. provide standardized information that could be used by MUAs for
 > identifying, and presenting reply options

I don't think these fields provide any information that the RFC 5322
and RFC 2369 fields don't already contain.

The problem that this proposal is intended to address is that DMARC is
designed to control where that information can be provided and bound
to the message content -- specifically restricting these functions to
the Author Domain's MTA.  Theoretically they could authorize third
parties, in practice they don't, and there's good reason to believe
they won't do so soon.  The problem with the proposal is that any
attempt to allow the good guys (lists) to provide that information
bound to altered message content[1] will provoke responses from the
phishers, and from the DMARC participants.

 > (maybe leading to "reply to list" and "reply to author" buttons
 > starting to show up on toolbars)

They already do (eg, Mutt and KMail).  In any case the required
information has long been available in the RFC 2369 List-Post field --
if an MUA hasn't implemented reply-to-list by now, its developers have
their reasons for not doing so.

 > 3. set the stage for adding some authentication mechanisms that
 > accomplish what DMARC is intended to do (e.g. by adding a few more
 > headers that cryptographically authenticate the new List- headers and
 > bind them to the message body)

In fact, DKIM can *already* authenticate those headers.  The problem
posed by DMARC is that Author Domains[2] want to control the use of
mailboxes in their domains in the From field[3], and do so by signing
that field.  This will not cause problems where mailboxes are for
corporate convenience -- the corporation just tells its agents that
they can't use those mailboxes to send to public mailing lists or for
other third-party uses.  Where it does cause problems is at those
services which provide mailboxes for arbitrary personal use.  It is
precisely those services that balk at delegating signing authority,
primarily due to the costs of investigating and approving third
parties, and for some third-party authorization schemes, burdens on
infrastructure (especially the DNS).  (Here, corporations will have a
for-profit or increased-benefit reason for delegation, and so will be
perfectly happy to pay the costs of delegation when appropriate.)

It is already possible for Author Domains to delegate authentication
of From to mailing lists and other third-party services.  There is a
now-mature and very elaborate proposal for a protocol similar to DMARC
itself that uses the DNS to publish such authorizations on a long-term
basis:
    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-otis-tpa-label
and two that extend DKIM to allow message by message authorization:
    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kucherawy-dkim-delegate
    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-levine-dkim-conditional

However, it is rather questionable whether services like Google or
Yahoo! with hundreds of millions of mailboxes will be able to vet tens
or hundreds of thousands of third-party services.  Google and Yahoo! 
technical staff have already indicated on the WG list that they really
would rather not.

The effective response of DMARC-using Author Domains is already known:
sign empty "Original-*" fields corresponding to existing fields that
are known to be useful in phishing and spoofing in general.  Whether
they will actually do that depends on MUA take-up and whether the
spoofers exploit.  That seems very likely to be highly correlated with
how effective these fields are at achieving their intended purpose.

IMO, to make these proposals useful, proponents need to provide a
plausible mechanism to prevent spoofing without preventing the
intended use at the same time.

 > It strikes me that this might proceed rather quickly, if incorporated
 > into an RFC co-authored and submitted by folks from the mailing list
 > software community

The writing of a document might go quickly, but it takes at least a
year to get to Proposed Standard status, even without IETF community
opposition.  Cf. DMARC itself, which is actually four or five years
old by now.

 > (Can you say, "rough consensus and running code?")

Running code, yes, but that "rough consensus" would have to include
(self-appointed ;-) representatives of *all* email users, not just the
MLs.  A rough consensus of a subset is exactly what got us DMARC.  And
those other "representatives" include a *lot* of people who take a
very dim view of screwing with RFC 5322 semantics.

 > Reactions?  Anybody want to collaborate on a draft RFC for
 > submission through the independent submissions path? Any thoughts
 > on who needs to be involved from the Sympa community, and/or from
 > the other mailing list software communities?

As I say, I have an old draft for something related to List-Reply-To
which I will dig up and post here for reference.[4]  I won't be
participating in writing up any of Miles' proposals until I've seen
plausible ways to address issues 1-6 presented above.  I encourage
anybody who thinks that they all can be solved to do so! and to
participate.

Aone piece of advice: from the point of view of Miles and other
proponents, the resistance from the IETF old guard is "political".
But I believe it will be strong.  You could try to present it as an
informational RFC ("mailing lists are doing this even though it
doesn't conform to applicable standards"), but I suspect the RFC
editor would delay publication until (1) the impact of this practice
on conformance to email RFCs in general is described (issue 1 above
must be resolved), and (2) the response of phishers and DMARC
participants to the practice is visible.  For this reason alone, I
strongly recommend creating an ad hoc "Committee for the Preservation
of Mailing Lists" or something like that, and publishing your standard
independently of the RFC process.

There is precedent for this.  Daniel Bernstein's "Mail-Followup-To"
header is widely provided and respected by open source MUAs, both for
news posts (the original application) and for email (primarily to
mailing lists).  Of course the pain of DMARC is mostly felt by users
of the big mailbox providers (ie, not users of open source MUAs), but
there you already have GMail (and maybe other webmail services, I
haven't checked) using a variant of the proposal.  (Warning: that
doesn't mean that GMail would implement the features that you propose
in the user-visible MUA!  But at least they're not opposed to the
header field itself.)

Good luck!

Steve


Footnotes: 
[1]  In the sense of invalidating the first-party DKIM signature.

[2]  By which I mean an organization such as Yahoo! that maintains a
domain registration and MTA infrastructure, and provides mail
transport services including mailbox addresses and storage to users.

[3]  They have a legitimate interest in doing so, but that discussion
is long since moot -- DMARC is a fact and it's not going to go away.

[4]  If there's enough interest I might try to push it through the
IETF process.


From dunkel at calamus.net  Mon Nov  3 12:54:09 2014
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 12:54:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You gave the wrong password - how to solve this?
Message-ID: <54576CE1.7090409@calamus.net>

I run various Mailman mailing lists on my servers since - well - decades
;-). Subscribers usually won't see the original Mailman interface web
pages, but I have prepared own pages accordingly. Users can subscribe
and unsubscribe from these forms.

Example:
http://www.dsd.net/news/news_abo.php?lan=en

I handle the subscribe and unsubscribe commands of-the-web page in a PHP
server-script which then sends emails to the relevant mailing lists.
This works fine with subscriptions.

But when a user wants to unsubscribe, chances are that I receive a
message from the list with the "You gave the wrong password" result.

When my script sends an unsubscribe email to the relevant list, it has
this general format:

----- snip -----
From: <my-mailinglist-admin-email-address>
To: <mailinglist>-request at lists.<mydomain>.net
Ref: unsubscribe <myadminpassword> address=<user-email-address>
----- snap -----

What am I doing wrong? Is it possible that there is a conflict between
the <myadminpassword> and a maybe user-defined <userpassword> when I try
to unsubscribe the user with my <myadminpassword>?

---Ulf Dunkel

From jimpop at gmail.com  Mon Nov  3 18:08:36 2014
From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 12:08:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cgi-bin permissions
Message-ID: <CAGfsgR0_aMneiuK=95us-+mOQjvwoD8Q4F7Z2R7wBF5F9R0+Cg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Is $vendor's mailman pkg doing something wrong:

~$ ls -al /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/create
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 14368 Oct 27 18:23 create

It seems to me that cgi-bin's owned by root are a no-no. Is that correct?

Thx,

-Jim P.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov  3 19:25:28 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 03:25:28 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  cgi-bin permissions
In-Reply-To: <CAGfsgR0_aMneiuK=95us-+mOQjvwoD8Q4F7Z2R7wBF5F9R0+Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGfsgR0_aMneiuK=95us-+mOQjvwoD8Q4F7Z2R7wBF5F9R0+Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87sii0ywdj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jim Popovitch writes:
 > Hello,
 > 
 > Is $vendor's mailman pkg doing something wrong:
 > 
 > ~$ ls -al /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/create
 > -rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 14368 Oct 27 18:23 create

No, that's standard setup.  Assuming /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman has the
right ownership and permissions (typically root:list drwxr-xr-x), root
ownership prevents anyone else (including the list user or group) from
changing or deleting that file, but those permissions don't give the
program any special power when run.

The empowering thing is the "r-s" in the middle.  That means that the
executable will always get the permissions of the list group when run
(of course if root runs it, it has all permissions).  That is just
enough to do its job, as the various directories and files it needs to
mutate will also have group list and permission "rw?" for group.



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov  4 05:47:10 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 20:47:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You gave the wrong password - how to solve this?
In-Reply-To: <54576CE1.7090409@calamus.net>
References: <54576CE1.7090409@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <54585A4E.4040107@msapiro.net>

On 11/03/2014 03:54 AM, Ulf Dunkel wrote:
> 
> When my script sends an unsubscribe email to the relevant list, it has
> this general format:
> 
> ----- snip -----
> From: <my-mailinglist-admin-email-address>
> To: <mailinglist>-request at lists.<mydomain>.net
> Ref: unsubscribe <myadminpassword> address=<user-email-address>
> ----- snap -----
> 
> What am I doing wrong? Is it possible that there is a conflict between
> the <myadminpassword> and a maybe user-defined <userpassword> when I try
> to unsubscribe the user with my <myadminpassword>?


Exactly. The password in the email unsubscribe command is the user's
list password, not the list admin password.

If you want to unsubscribe a user without confirmation and with
authentication via the list admin password, you have to use the web
interface. See the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/Z4A9> and
<http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From my_list_address at yahoo.no  Tue Nov  4 10:38:46 2014
From: my_list_address at yahoo.no (Hal)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 10:38:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive merge and search
Message-ID: <54589EA6.5030804@yahoo.no>

I run a low volume mailing list which has previously been run by 
Majordomo list software, but was transferred flawlessly by my tech-guy 
to the Mailman platform.
I have a couple of questions related to the mail archives and searching 
within them. My tech can handle the actual installing etc. on the 
server, but with limited time I'm doing the research first, so I have a 
few questions:

1) I now have two separate list archives: the old Majordomo (monthly) 
archive and the new Mailman archive (not sure yet how it's 
organized/located but assume it's going by the default settings.
How do I merge the Majordomo archives with Mailman's current archives?

2) I also have a website associated with the mailing list which has a 
simple search function for the old Majordomo archives. It also has a 
basic filter for munging email addresses.
As I'm rebuilding the website I want a more efficient and up-to-date 
search function which searches simultaneously through the website and 
mailing list archive. I've been told that one which uses a database 
(PostgreSQL, SQLite etc.) is benefitial. Also, the archive-filter should 
be more advanced (I don't need the email headers/footers to show up in 
the search results), and finally it would be nice to have the relevant 
results show a whole list-thread on the searched subject to show up as 
opposed to just separate messages/and the website results, so people can 
follow a relevant discussion on whatever they've searched.
Can someone suggest a search script which will allow me to do this? It 
seems to be a real challenge to find something which is up-to-date, 
still supported and working well if you don't want to use Google's local 
search feature.

Thanks :-)


Hal

From Olivier.Nicole at cs.ait.ac.th  Tue Nov  4 09:24:55 2014
From: Olivier.Nicole at cs.ait.ac.th (Olivier Nicole)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 15:24:55 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive not woring on Debian install
Message-ID: <wu7tx2fgyp4.fsf@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th>

Hi,

I am new to mailman (as a site admin) and I cannot find out how to get
the archive running on my debian/postfix/mailman installation.

The list works fine, but it seems that no crontab is working.

If I try to manually sudo -u list /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds is
sends no password reminder.

I must be forgetting something very obvious, But I can't see what it is.

Thanks in advance,

Olivier

-- 

From nxnw at rogers.com  Tue Nov  4 17:59:02 2014
From: nxnw at rogers.com (nxnw)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 11:59:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion server trouble
Message-ID: <EA079711-37B9-47B5-8954-6728D17CA67A@rogers.com>

> OK, here are steps taken for a (mostly) successful installation on Mountain 
> Lion server, including migration from the apple-supplied mailman previously 
> running under Lion.

Short update respecting a further system upgrade from Mountain Lion server to Mavericks server. Two things:

1. Mostly good news - after the OS and server.app upgrades, mailman was (mostly) running. The only thing that was not working was the web interface. After a bit of investigation, I found that the upgrade overwrote /Library/Server/Web/Config/apache2/httpd_server_app.conf, so that file had to be edited (again) to add the following:

	#Mailman
	Include /private/etc/apache2/extra/httpd-mailman.conf

I put the above right after "Include /Library/Server/Web/Config/apache2/other/*.conf". Apache must be restarted after the edit.

2. httpd_server_app.conf was overwritten again during a subsequent, minor update of server.app. Editing, as shown above, fixed it.

From adamsca at gmail.com  Tue Nov  4 18:13:39 2014
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:13:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck files
In-Reply-To: <545296FE.3080501@msapiro.net>
References: <CAA13W+8outG7uhGmbdJ+s2AGuDJyiSkqHYVdoNq5Xp-z5AuDtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <545296FE.3080501@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAA13W+_jLEK+5HRezxy5O_QWmCuo=S8wK1t0fWqpYrqk9=fj2g@mail.gmail.com>

 THank you, Mark. There were config.db files, all which have been removed.
I couldn't fine anything in the error log that gave me an indication of
what might have happened. I followed your tips and have copied the
config.safety to config.pck and all seems to be fine. Thanks again for
explaining it all to me.


On Oct 30, 2014 12:53 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 10/30/2014 09:03 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > A list that is hosted here reported that the membership list and other
> > settings had reverted to previous content.
> >
> > I took a look at the files and see this:
> >
> > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 14526 Oct 30 08:00 config.pck
> > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 48950 Sep 29 13:15 config.pck.corrupt
> > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 14526 Oct 30 08:00 config.pck.last
> > -rw-rw---- 1 apache  mailman 49499 Sep 29 16:38 config.pck.safety
>
>
> Where there any config.db.* files? A problem is that between Mailman 2.0
> and 2.1 this file changed from a marshal (config.db) to a pickle
> (config.pck). The upgrade process migrated the file, but if the
> config.db* files were not then manually removed, what can happen is
> later (perhaps years later) the config.pck files become somehow
> corrupted. Mailman tries the files in the order config.pck,
> config.pck.last, config.db and config.db.last, and the first one it can
> successfully load is used. This can be a config.db which rolls back the
> list to a possibly way earlier state.
>
>
> > It looks like the config.pck file was corrupt. Just for clarification,
> what
> > are the other config.pck* files ?
>
>
> Every time Mailman saves a list's state, it makes a file named
> config.pck.tmp.<hostname>.<pid> and saves the list's state there and
> then removes config.pck.last, renames config.pck to config.pck.last and
> finally renames config.pck.tmp.<hostname>.<pid> to config.pck.
>
> So there is always a current config.pck and the immediately prior
> config.pck.last.
>
> When Mailman tries to load a config.pck and has to fall back to a prior
> file, it logs that fact in the 'error' log which see, and it renames the
> current config.pck to config.pck.corrupt and also copies the recovered
> file to config.pck and to config.pck.safety.
>
>
> > Since teh config.pck.safety looks like it
> > is much larger in size, and I ran ./dumpdb to read it and it appears to
> be
> > more current data, I am thinking that I can use it to overwrite the
> > config.pck, which apparently was used because the file was corrupt.
> >
> > Can someone explain how these files work when the file becomes corrupt?
>
>
> See above, and see all the error log messages relating to this.
>
> It is unclear exactly what the issue was here. It apparently occurred on
> Sept 29. The error log from that time may help understand the sequence.
>
>
> > Can I just copy the config.pck.safety to config.pck ?
>
>
> If you can successfully dump it with bin/dumpdb, you can copy it to
> config.pck and that should work. To be absolutely safe, you could run
> 'bin/withlist -l <listname>' to lock the list, then do the copy from
> another terminal and then type control-D to exit the withlist session
> and unlock the list. Otherwise you run the risk that Mailman or the web
> UI is updating the list just as you do the copy.
>
> Also, when you're done and the list works, remove or move aside the
> config.db* files if any and the .corrupt and .safety files.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adamsca%40gmail.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov  4 19:22:20 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 10:22:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck files
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+_jLEK+5HRezxy5O_QWmCuo=S8wK1t0fWqpYrqk9=fj2g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA13W+8outG7uhGmbdJ+s2AGuDJyiSkqHYVdoNq5Xp-z5AuDtg@mail.gmail.com>	<545296FE.3080501@msapiro.net>
 <CAA13W+_jLEK+5HRezxy5O_QWmCuo=S8wK1t0fWqpYrqk9=fj2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5459195C.6000207@msapiro.net>

On 11/04/2014 09:13 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> I couldn't fine anything in the error log that gave me an
> indication of what might have happened.


Based on the timestamps in your original post, the error log entries
should have been written on Sept 29. That log has probably been rotated
and perhaps no longer exists.


> I followed your tips and have
> copied the config.safety to config.pck and all seems to be fine. Thanks
> again for explaining it all to me.


You're welcome. I'm glad it's working.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov  4 19:26:15 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 10:26:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive merge and search
In-Reply-To: <54589EA6.5030804@yahoo.no>
References: <54589EA6.5030804@yahoo.no>
Message-ID: <54591A47.9030309@msapiro.net>

On 11/04/2014 01:38 AM, Hal wrote:
> 
> 1) I now have two separate list archives: the old Majordomo (monthly)
> archive and the new Mailman archive (not sure yet how it's
> organized/located but assume it's going by the default settings.
> How do I merge the Majordomo archives with Mailman's current archives?


You need to get the majordomo archives in *nix mbox format. Then see the
FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/oIA9> for merging instructions.


> 2) I also have a website associated with the mailing list which has a
> simple search function for the old Majordomo archives. It also has a
> basic filter for munging email addresses.
> As I'm rebuilding the website I want a more efficient and up-to-date
> search function which searches simultaneously through the website and
> mailing list archive. I've been told that one which uses a database
> (PostgreSQL, SQLite etc.) is benefitial. Also, the archive-filter should
> be more advanced (I don't need the email headers/footers to show up in
> the search results), and finally it would be nice to have the relevant
> results show a whole list-thread on the searched subject to show up as
> opposed to just separate messages/and the website results, so people can
> follow a relevant discussion on whatever they've searched.
> Can someone suggest a search script which will allow me to do this? It
> seems to be a real challenge to find something which is up-to-date,
> still supported and working well if you don't want to use Google's local
> search feature.


Mailman 3 and it's archiver may do what you want. It's unlikely you can
get all of it in Mailman 2.1, but see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/MoA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov  4 19:37:04 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 10:37:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive not woring on Debian install
In-Reply-To: <wu7tx2fgyp4.fsf@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th>
References: <wu7tx2fgyp4.fsf@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th>
Message-ID: <54591CD0.6070007@msapiro.net>

On 11/04/2014 12:24 AM, Olivier Nicole wrote:
> 
> I am new to mailman (as a site admin) and I cannot find out how to get
> the archive running on my debian/postfix/mailman installation.
> 
> The list works fine, but it seems that no crontab is working.


Your cron jobs are probably mailing their error output to 'mailman'
which is the site list which probably doesn't accept the posts.

You need to either configure the 'mailman' site list to accept all posts
(in particular set generic_nonmember_action to Accept) and subscribe
yourself to the list, or add MAILTO=your_address to Mailman's crontab or
both.


> If I try to manually sudo -u list /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds is
> sends no password reminder.


Does it produce any output? If so, what? If not, are the lists'
send_reminders settings Yes and are the members' "Get password reminder
email for this list?" settings Yes?


> I must be forgetting something very obvious, But I can't see what it is.


It may be a permissions issue. try

sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f

Otherwise, what's in Mailman's 'error' log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From olivier.nicole at cs.ait.ac.th  Wed Nov  5 09:45:29 2014
From: olivier.nicole at cs.ait.ac.th (Olivier Nicole)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:45:29 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive not woring on Debian install
In-Reply-To: <54591CD0.6070007@msapiro.net>
References: <wu7tx2fgyp4.fsf@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th>
 <54591CD0.6070007@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CA+g+BvjB3oRg6wbb1ig2dCWab-uDbYmzN2FK-jZnqLYWxb-+6w@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you.

>> I am new to mailman (as a site admin) and I cannot find out how to get
>> the archive running on my debian/postfix/mailman installation.
>>
>> The list works fine, but it seems that no crontab is working.
>
> Your cron jobs are probably mailing their error output to 'mailman'
> which is the site list which probably doesn't accept the posts.

No they are not doing anything.

> You need to either configure the 'mailman' site list to accept all posts
> (in particular set generic_nonmember_action to Accept) and subscribe
> yourself to the list, or add MAILTO=your_address to Mailman's crontab or
> both.
>
>
>> If I try to manually sudo -u list /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds is
>> sends no password reminder.
> Does it produce any output? If so, what? If not, are the lists'
> send_reminders settings Yes and are the members' "Get password reminder
> email for this list?" settings Yes?

I have overlooked that setting, now it works.

>> I must be forgetting something very obvious, But I can't see what it is.
> It may be a permissions issue. try
>
> sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f

It was and check_perms fixed it.

Thank you,

Olivier

> Otherwise, what's in Mailman's 'error' log?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/olivier.nicole%40cs.ait.ac.th

From pshute at nuw.org.au  Wed Nov  5 22:03:42 2014
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 08:03:42 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin content preview ending up posted to
	list
Message-ID: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001826088F2@nuwvicms2>

I had a complaint yesterday that a URL in a posting to our list had become corrupted - one of the dots in the domain name had been dropped.

Looking at the original message in the moderation alert email, it looks ok to me, but I can see that the dot has been dropped in the content preview in the X-Ham-Report header which I think spamassassin has inserted. This header has multiple lines, including blank lines, and I'm wondering if it's confusing mailman.

Has anyone else seen this, and is there a way to stop it happening?

Peter Shute

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov  6 01:39:24 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 16:39:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin content preview ending up posted
 to list
In-Reply-To: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001826088F2@nuwvicms2>
References: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001826088F2@nuwvicms2>
Message-ID: <545AC33C.70800@msapiro.net>

On 11/05/2014 01:03 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
> 
> Looking at the original message in the moderation alert email, it looks ok to me, but I can see that the dot has been dropped in the content preview in the X-Ham-Report header which I think spamassassin has inserted. This header has multiple lines, including blank lines, and I'm wondering if it's confusing mailman.


So, if I understand correctly, the missing dot is only in an
X-Ham-Report header. Was this header correct in the moderation notice?

Or are you saying that the dot was present in the body of the message in
the held message notice, but not in the body of the delivered message?

It would help if you could post the entire RAW message that was attached
to the held message notice (address obfuscation OK) and point out how
this differs from the message delivered to the list.

In any case, Mailman (actually the underlying Python library) might
possibly unfold and refold the X-Ham-Report header, but other than that,
it should be untouched and have no effect on Mailman.

Is it possible that the original message in the held notice was
multipart/alternative with text/plain and text/html alternatives, and
you saw the text/html alternative which was correct, but this was
removed by Mailman's content filtering collapse_alternatives leaving the
text/plain part which wasn't? If that's the case, blame the user's MUA
(if it's Yahoo, it's almost certainly the culprit).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From pshute at nuw.org.au  Thu Nov  6 02:50:12 2014
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 12:50:12 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Spamassassin content preview ending up posted
 to list
Message-ID: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E1700182608902@nuwvicms2>

Sorry, I forgot to Cc the list. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Shute 
Sent: Thursday, 6 November 2014 12:49 PM
To: 'Mark Sapiro'
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin content preview ending up posted to list

The dot was missing in the X-Ham-Report header but not in the message body in the moderation notice.

It was missing from both in the message the list sent out, which made me think the list thought the content preview in the X-Ham-Report header was the message, and discarded the rest.

I received the moderation notice via Exchange/Outlook, so I'm not sure there isn't more to it that I can't see. Outlook will only show me the headers, not the whole raw message. In an attempt to get a raw message for you to look at, I opened the message attached tot he moderation notice, then used Outlook's Resend option to send it to my gmail account. Below is what gmail calls the "original message". However, you'll notice that there is no X-Ham-Report header! I'm assuming Outlook/Exchange or gmail stripped it out on the way to my gmail mailbox. So I've added the headers I see in Outlook below the full message.

It might be that Outlook/Exchange has totally rewritten the headers and content, so apologies if that's the case.

The difference between these and what arrived from the list is that it's plain text only, and the URL mentioned hase changed from:
http://sunshinecoastbirds.blogspot.com.au/2014/11/yandina-creek-wetlands-and-its.html
to:
http://sunshinecoastbirdsblogspot.com.au/2014/11/yandina-creek-wetlands-and-its.html

Note that the first dot in the URL has gone. The only place I can see a matching URL is in the content preview.

Delivered-To: xxx22 at gmail.com
Received: by 10.217.2.18 with SMTP id o18csp37651wes;
        Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:41:09 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 10.68.211.193 with SMTP id ne1mr168364pbc.49.1415227268221;
        Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:41:08 -0800 (PST)
Return-Path: <xxx at nuw.org.au>
Received: from NUWVICMS2.nuw.org.au (mailout.nuw.org.au. [202.183.101.44])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id rg11si4172892pdb.142.2014.11.05.14.41.06
        for <xxx22 at gmail.com>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128);
        Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:41:07 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: none (google.com: xxx at nuw.org.au does not designate permitted sender hosts) client-ip=202.183.101.44;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
       spf=neutral (google.com: xxx at nuw.org.au does not designate permitted sender hosts) smtp.mail=xxx at nuw.org.au
Received: from NUWVICMS2.nuw.org.au ([192.168.0.36]) by nuwvicms2
 ([192.168.0.36]) with mapi; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 09:41:03 +1100
From: Peter Shute <xxx at nuw.org.au>
To: "'xxx22 at gmail.com'" <xxx22 at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 09:41:02 +1100
Subject: Lewin's Rail, Spotless Crake and other Good Birds at Threatened  Sunshine Coast Wetland
Thread-Topic: Lewin's Rail, Spotless Crake and other Good Birds at  Threatened Sunshine Coast Wetland
Thread-Index: Ac/4qG3uhKgRA3eBQdqoWtgYFONxDQ==
Message-ID: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001826088F7 at nuwvicms2>
Reply-To: Greg yyy <yyy at westnet.com.au>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-ironport-av: E=Sophos;i="5.07,317,1413216000";
    d="scan'208,217";a="377715616"
x-originating-ip: 124.150.99.243
x-spam-status: No, score=-0.9
x-ironport-anti-spam-result: Ah8LAJiYWVQKAiw6/2dsb2JhbABbgkhGVFkEgjK4XQaTWohlFgEBAQEBfYN5M24GAQk1AkIdG4gjAQETDqJGhzWIDYcBjjSGN41XgVQFhiKLf2KDb485A44ygVMBYIFWKy8BgUeBAwEBAQ
x-ironport-anti-spam-filtered: true
x-spam-flag: NO
x-spam-score: -8
x-spam-bar: /
acceptlanguage: en-US
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="_000_C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001826088F7nuwvicms2_"
MIME-Version: 1.0

--_000_C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001826088F7nuwvicms2_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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--_000_C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001826088F7nuwvicms2_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

PGh0bWw+PGJvZHkgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiAnSGVsdmV0aWNhIE5ldWUnLEhlbHZl
PGh0bWw+dGlj
YSxBcmlhbCxzYW5zLXNlcmlmOyBmb250LXNpemU6IDEycHg7Ij48YnIgLz48ZGl2PkkgaGVhcmQg
b3Igc2F3IDUgTGV3aW4ncyBSYWlscyBhbmQgMTIgU3BvdGxlc3MgQ3Jha2VzIHRvZGF5IGF0IGEg
bmV3bHkgZGlzY292ZXJlZCB3ZXRsYW5kIGF0IFlhbmRpbmEgQ3JlZWsgb24gdGhlIFN1bnNoaW5l
IENvYXN0LiBPdGhlciBnb29kIGJpcmRzIGFib3V0IGluY2x1ZGVkIEJsYWNrLW5lY2tlZCBTdG9y
aywgUmVkLW5lY2tlZCBBdm9jZXQsIExpdHRsZSBHcmFzc2JpcmQgYW5kIGEgZnJlZS1mbHlpbmcg
TWFsbGFyZDsgZ2VudWluZWx5IHdpbGQgTWFsbGFyZHMgYXJlIHJhcmUgaW4gc291dGgtZWFzdCBR
dWVlbnNsYW5kLjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+PGJyIC8+PC9kaXY+PGRpdj5UaGlzIGV4dGVuc2l2ZSBh
dWVlbnNsYW5kLjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+PGJyIC8+PC9kaXY+cmVh
IG9mIGdyYXNzbGFuZCBhbmQgd2V0bGFuZCBoYXMgZW5vcm1vdXMgcG90ZW50aWFsIGJ1dCBpcyB0
aHJlYXRlbmVkIGJ5IGRldmVsb3BtZW50LiBUaGUgU3Vuc2hpbmUgQ29hc3QgUmVnaW9uYWwgQ291
bmNpbCBpcyBiZWluZyB1cmdlZCB0byBwdXJjaGFzZSBzb21lIG9mIHRoZSBwcml2YXRlbHkgb3du
ZWQgbGFuZCB0byBjb25zZXJ2ZSBhbmQgbWFuYWdlIHRoZSB3ZXRsYW5kcy48L2Rpdj48ZGl2Pjxi
ciAvPjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+U2VlIGhlcmUgZm9yIHBpY3R1cmVzLCBmdXJ0aGVyIGluZm9ybWF0
ciAvPjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+aW9u
IGFuZCBhIGxpbmsgd2hlcmUgcGVvcGxlIGNhbiBjb250YWN0IHRoZSBtYXlvciBpZiB0aGV5IHdh
bnQgdG8gc2VlIHRoZSBhcmVhIHByb3RlY3RlZDo8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PjxiciAvPjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+
aHR0cDovL3N1bnNoaW5lY29hc3RiaXJkcy5ibG9nc3BvdC5jb20uYXUvMjAxNC8xMS95YW5kaW5h
LWNyZWVrLXdldGxhbmRzLWFuZC1pdHMuaHRtbDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+PGJyIC8+PC9kaXY+PGRp
LWNyZWVrLXdldGxhbmRzLWFuZC1pdHMuaHRtbDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+PGJyIC8+PC9kaXY+dj5H
cmVnIFJvYmVydHPCoDwvZGl2PjxiciAvPjwvYm9keT48L2h0bWw+DQo=

--_000_C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001826088F7nuwvicms2_--

These are the headers I can see in the message attached to the moderation notice before I sent it to gmail:

Received: from webmail.icp-osb-irony-out4.external.iinet.net.au ([203.59.1.232]:24685)
	by cloud3.emwd.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82)
	(envelope-from <ninderry at westnet.com.au>)
	id 1XlrFh-003a2i-HB
	for birding-aus at birding-aus.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 22:27:23 -0500
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah8LAJiYWVQKAiw6/2dsb2JhbABbgkhGVFkEgjK4XQaTWohlFgEBAQEBfYN5M24GAQk1AkIdG4gjAQETDqJGhzWIDYcBjjSGN41XgVQFhiKLf2KDb485A44ygVMBYIFWKy8BgUeBAwEBAQ
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,317,1413216000"; 
   d="scan'208,217";a="377715616"
Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) ([10.2.44.58])
  by icp-osb-irony-out4.iinet.net.au with ESMTP; 05 Nov 2014 11:27:17 +0800
Message-ID: <0e7de907fab48b1832d57dd6d35803a847068db6 at webmail.westnet.com.au>
From: "Greg Roberts" <ninderry at westnet.com.au>
Reply-To: "Greg Roberts" <ninderry at westnet.com.au>
To: "birding-aus" <birding-aus at birding-aus.org>
X-Mailer: Atmail 6.6.0.13042
X-Originating-IP: 124.150.99.243
Subject: Lewin's Rail, Spotless Crake and other Good Birds at Threatened Sunshine Coast Wetland
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 13:27:17 +1000
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="=_bf3f4cd6b721f8d50a7e7df8a17b7a9d"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9
X-Spam-Score: -8
X-Spam-Bar: /
X-Ham-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "cloud3.emwd.com", has  identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message  has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label  similar future email.  If you have any questions, see  root\@localhost for details.
 
 Content preview:  I heard or saw 5 Lewin's Rails and 12 Spotless Crakes today
    at a newly discovered wetland at Yandina Creek on the Sunshine Coast. Other
    good birds about included Black-necked Stork, Red-necked Avocet, Little Grassbird
    and a free-flying Mallard; genuinely wild Mallards are rare in south-east
    Queensland. This extensive area of grassland and wetland has enormous potential
    but is threatened by development. The Sunshine Coast Regional Council is
   being urged to purchase some of the privately owned land to conserve and manage
    the wetlands. See here for pictures, further information and a link where
    people can contact the mayor if they want to see the area protected: http://sunshinecoastbirdsblogspot.com.au/2014/11/yandina-creek-wetlands-and-its.html
    Greg Roberts? [...] 
 
 Content analysis details:   (-0.9 points, 5.0 required)
 
  pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
 -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE     RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no
                             trust
                             [203.59.1.232 listed in list.dnswl.org]
 -1.9 BAYES_00               BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1%
                             [score: 0.0000]
  0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
  1.0 KAM_LIVE               blogspot.com & livejournal.com likely spam (Apr 2010)
X-Spam-Flag: NO



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mailman-Users
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org.au at python.org]
> On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
> Sent: Thursday, 6 November 2014 11:39 AM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin content preview ending up 
> posted to list
> 
> On 11/05/2014 01:03 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
> > 
> > Looking at the original message in the moderation alert
> email, it looks ok to me, but I can see that the dot has been dropped 
> in the content preview in the X-Ham-Report header which I think 
> spamassassin has inserted. This header has multiple lines, including 
> blank lines, and I'm wondering if it's confusing mailman.
> 
> 
> So, if I understand correctly, the missing dot is only in an 
> X-Ham-Report header. Was this header correct in the moderation notice?
> 
> Or are you saying that the dot was present in the body of the 
> message in the held message notice, but not in the body of 
> the delivered message?
> 
> It would help if you could post the entire RAW message that 
> was attached to the held message notice (address obfuscation 
> OK) and point out how this differs from the message delivered 
> to the list.
> 
> In any case, Mailman (actually the underlying Python library) 
> might possibly unfold and refold the X-Ham-Report header, but 
> other than that, it should be untouched and have no effect on Mailman.
> 
> Is it possible that the original message in the held notice 
> was multipart/alternative with text/plain and text/html 
> alternatives, and you saw the text/html alternative which was 
> correct, but this was removed by Mailman's content filtering 
> collapse_alternatives leaving the text/plain part which 
> wasn't? If that's the case, blame the user's MUA (if it's 
> Yahoo, it's almost certainly the culprit).
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: 
> http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4
0nuw.org.au
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov  6 05:15:38 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 20:15:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Spamassassin content preview ending up
 posted to list
In-Reply-To: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E1700182608902@nuwvicms2>
References: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E1700182608902@nuwvicms2>
Message-ID: <545AF5EA.60306@msapiro.net>

On 11/05/2014 05:50 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
...
> X-Ham-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "cloud3.emwd.com", has  identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message  has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label  similar future email.  If you have any questions, see  root\@localhost for details.
>  
>  Content preview:  I heard or saw 5 Lewin's Rails and 12 Spotless Crakes today
>     at a newly discovered wetland at Yandina Creek on the Sunshine Coast. Other
>     good birds about included Black-necked Stork, Red-necked Avocet, Little Grassbird
>     and a free-flying Mallard; genuinely wild Mallards are rare in south-east
>     Queensland. This extensive area of grassland and wetland has enormous potential
>     but is threatened by development. The Sunshine Coast Regional Council is
>    being urged to purchase some of the privately owned land to conserve and manage
>     the wetlands. See here for pictures, further information and a link where
>     people can contact the mayor if they want to see the area protected: http://sunshinecoastbirdsblogspot.com.au/2014/11/yandina-creek-wetlands-and-its.html
>     Greg Roberts? [...] 
>  
>  Content analysis details:   (-0.9 points, 5.0 required)
>  


OK. I poked around and found the archived message at
<http://bioacoustics.cse.unsw.edu.au/archives/html/birding-aus/2014-11/msg00039.html>.

Something seemed to think that the line between 'Greg Roberts? [...]'
and 'Content analysis details:' was empty even though in your post at
least, it contains an ascii space.

An 'empty' line, i.e. the sequence <CR><LF><CR><LF> terminates the
headers and the rest is the body.

This is really wierd because in the archived message, the List-* and
X-Mailman headers are all added after the X-Spam-Flag: NO header which
says at the point Mailman added those headers, it knew that the headers
didn't end at the point prior to the "Content preview" line, but when
the message was archived and presumably when sent to the list, that line
started the 'body'

Also, if you base64 decode the encoded data at the end of the archived
message, you see the actual plain text message body with some list
footers added, and curiously, it too is missing the dot in the URL.

I created a composite message with the body from the 'forwarded' message
from your post and the headers from Outlook, and posted it to a list on
my development server, and it all worked as expected and the only
missing dot was in the X-Ham-Report: "Content preview".

The fact that the dot is also missing in the base64 encoded plain text
says it may well have been missing in the original, but it wasn't
missing in the message quoted in your post, so that's a mystery.

Anyway, your Mailman or at least its archiving process seems to be to
blame here, but mine works, and yours is cPanel so see
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+and+CPanel>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov  6 05:35:37 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 20:35:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Spamassassin content preview ending up
 posted to list
In-Reply-To: <545AF5EA.60306@msapiro.net>
References: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E1700182608902@nuwvicms2>
 <545AF5EA.60306@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <545AFA99.5090703@msapiro.net>

On 11/05/2014 08:15 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> OK. I poked around and found the archived message at
> <http://bioacoustics.cse.unsw.edu.au/archives/html/birding-aus/2014-11/msg00039.html>.
> 
> Something seemed to think that the line between 'Greg Roberts? [...]'
> and 'Content analysis details:' was empty even though in your post at
> least, it contains an ascii space.
> 
> An 'empty' line, i.e. the sequence <CR><LF><CR><LF> terminates the
> headers and the rest is the body.
> 
> This is really wierd because in the archived message, the List-* and
> X-Mailman headers are all added after the X-Spam-Flag: NO header which
> says at the point Mailman added those headers, it knew that the headers
> didn't end at the point prior to the "Content preview" line, but when
> the message was archived and presumably when sent to the list, that line
> started the 'body'
> 
> Also, if you base64 decode the encoded data at the end of the archived
> message, you see the actual plain text message body with some list
> footers added, and curiously, it too is missing the dot in the URL.


Additional question.

Did the post delivered to the list look like the archived message or was
the body just

> I heard or saw 5 Lewin's Rails and 12 Spotless Crakes today at a newly
> discovered wetland at Yandina Creek on the Sunshine Coast. Other good
> birds about included Black-necked Stork, Red-necked Avocet, Little
> Grassbird and a free-flying Mallard; genuinely wild Mallards are rare
> in south-east Queensland.
> This extensive area of grassland and wetland has enormous potential
> but is threatened by development. The Sunshine Coast Regional Council
> is being urged to purchase some of the privately owned land to
> conserve and manage the wetlands.
> See here for pictures, further information and a link where people can
> contact the mayor if they want to see the area protected:
> http://sunshinecoastbirdsblogspot.com.au/2014/11/yandina-creek-wetlands-and-its.html
> Greg Roberts 
> 
> <HR>
> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
> <BR> Birding-Aus at birding-aus.org
> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> </HR>

as decoded from the base64 in the archive? I suspect the latter. If so,
it's only the archiving process (which appears to not be Mailman's
pipermail) which mis-interpreted the end of the headers. Then the only
mystery that remains is the missing dot in the body. I think the dot
must have been missing in at least the text/plain part of the original
post. It's too much of a coincidence to think that spamassassin dropped
it in it's report before the message even reached the list and Mailman
also dropped it. I can't explain why it was present in the text/plain
part of the message you posted, but perhaps the forwarding from Outlook
to gmail reconstructed the text/plain from the text/html, admittedly a
stretch, but I have no real explanation.

[Composed before I read your last]

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From gh224391 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  6 10:30:46 2014
From: gh224391 at gmail.com (gerard)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 10:30:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set the same password if a user owns several lists?
Message-ID: <545B3FC6.7020207@gmail.com>

Hello all,

i have mailman 2.1.8. Users own several lists, and they often lost their 
password to moderate the list.
Is it possible to retrieve a form of the password of one list, to put it 
in another list? like we do with shadow passwords in unix system? i 
don't need to retrieve the password, just the encrypted form.
With python shell, i try to look at file Mailman/Cgi/options.py.
The Web interface told me that:
"Sem-edp list run by me at example.org"
but when i did:
 >>> user
'me at example.org'
 >>> mlist.isMember(user)
0
 >>> mlist.GetOwnerEmail()
'sem-edp-owner at example.org'

is it normal? I also find mlist.password thats returns something 
encrypted, is it what i need?

thanks in advance for help,


-- 
G?rard Henry

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov  6 18:50:42 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 09:50:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set the same password if a user owns several
 lists?
In-Reply-To: <545B3FC6.7020207@gmail.com>
References: <545B3FC6.7020207@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <545BB4F2.6050701@msapiro.net>

On 11/06/2014 01:30 AM, gerard wrote:
> 
> i have mailman 2.1.8. Users own several lists, and they often lost their
> password to moderate the list.
> Is it possible to retrieve a form of the password of one list, to put it
> in another list? like we do with shadow passwords in unix system? i
> don't need to retrieve the password, just the encrypted form.


Yes. see below.


> With python shell, i try to look at file Mailman/Cgi/options.py.
> The Web interface told me that:
> "Sem-edp list run by me at example.org"
> but when i did:
>>>> user
> 'me at example.org'
>>>> mlist.isMember(user)
> 0
>>>> mlist.GetOwnerEmail()
> 'sem-edp-owner at example.org'
> 
> is it normal?


Yes, that's normal.


I also find mlist.password thats returns something
> encrypted, is it what i need?


Yes, that is the encrypted list admin password. also there are
mlist.mod_password and, if you mean 2.1.18, but not in 2.1.8,
mlist.post_password which are respectively the moderator and list
posting passwords if any.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From greg at headingup.net  Thu Nov  6 18:42:51 2014
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 09:42:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe Using Web Form
Message-ID: <CAOXbGWFpBdq+Fu3eLiVu6LWepGSLNLt5CpFVDLsnUzr1yNqFWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

We are making good progress on our project thanks to your help a couple of
weeks ago.  The Subscribe portion of the process is working and the text is
being translated into Chinese.

I'm struggling with the Unsubscribe portion of the project.  I extended the
webform but can't get it to work.  My goal is for our users to use the same
web page to subscribe to and unsubscribe from the list with a minimum
number of interactions.  I understand the need for the two stage
subscription process with email confirmation -- this is required (and
working).  I would like the Unsubscribe to be one click and done.

http://www.raystedman.org/daily-devotions/chinese-subscription


Please note the user has no idea they have a system generated password --
this is as it should be to keep things simple.  Most of our users are older
and only have the skills to deal with minimal user complexity.  We need to
keep things simple as a result.

Thanks in advance for your help, Greg

PS.  I looked at the Drupal extension for Mailman.  It carries too much
overhead for large size lists.  We already have a mailman list with 10,000
users and hope to double this number next year.  We can't afford to have a
Drupal user account for each of these users.

From jy at wetafx.co.nz  Thu Nov  6 19:17:25 2014
From: jy at wetafx.co.nz (John Young)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 07:17:25 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving : 2 Questions
Message-ID: <D0F67607-D0A8-4447-96CB-7143D359D3E4@wetafx.co.nz>

Hiya,

I?m brand new to this list and was hoping for some direction.

I?ve read through a heap of archives but can?t quite find the correct answers (or am searching for the wrong terms!)

1 - We want to enable private archiving on all of our mailman lists.  Some already have archiving , most don?t.  But we want this enabled on all so we have the ability to go through the postings.

2 - We want to purge all our existing archives older than a certain date.

Kind regards

John

From jy at wetafx.co.nz  Thu Nov  6 19:20:43 2014
From: jy at wetafx.co.nz (John Young)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 07:20:43 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving : 2 Questions
In-Reply-To: <D0F67607-D0A8-4447-96CB-7143D359D3E4@wetafx.co.nz>
References: <D0F67607-D0A8-4447-96CB-7143D359D3E4@wetafx.co.nz>
Message-ID: <2DC367F6-5A15-42DA-BF69-6B564BC17631@wetafx.co.nz>

Sorry, I should have noted that the current archives are in month batches which is what we are after for all of our mail lists.

- archiving
- monthly
- private (admins only)

Thanks again 

John

On 7/11/2014, at 7:17 am, John Young <jy at wetafx.co.nz> wrote:

> Hiya,
> 
> I?m brand new to this list and was hoping for some direction.
> 
> I?ve read through a heap of archives but can?t quite find the correct answers (or am searching for the wrong terms!)
> 
> 1 - We want to enable private archiving on all of our mailman lists.  Some already have archiving , most don?t.  But we want this enabled on all so we have the ability to go through the postings.
> 
> 2 - We want to purge all our existing archives older than a certain date.
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> John


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov  7 05:32:55 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 20:32:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe Using Web Form
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWFpBdq+Fu3eLiVu6LWepGSLNLt5CpFVDLsnUzr1yNqFWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWFpBdq+Fu3eLiVu6LWepGSLNLt5CpFVDLsnUzr1yNqFWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <545C4B77.90204@msapiro.net>

On 11/06/2014 09:42 AM, Greg Sims wrote:
> 
> I'm struggling with the Unsubscribe portion of the project.  I extended the
> webform but can't get it to work.  My goal is for our users to use the same
> web page to subscribe to and unsubscribe from the list with a minimum
> number of interactions.  I understand the need for the two stage
> subscription process with email confirmation -- this is required (and
> working).  I would like the Unsubscribe to be one click and done.
> 
> http://www.raystedman.org/daily-devotions/chinese-subscription


If you want immediate unsubscribe without confirmation, you need to
provide either the user's list password or the list admin password as
the value of the 'password' item in the form data.

Given what you are doing, you could just add

<input type="hidden" name="password" value="the_list_admin_password">

to the form, but this is a really bad idea as anyone can do what I did
and see this in the source of the page which exposes the list admin
password to the world.

A better idea is to post just the email address to your own script which
if invoked directly just displays some 'result' HTML and have that
script post to the options page or post to a list admin page to do the
unsubscribe. That way, you script can know the list admin password
without exposing it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov  7 05:47:28 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 20:47:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving : 2 Questions
In-Reply-To: <2DC367F6-5A15-42DA-BF69-6B564BC17631@wetafx.co.nz>
References: <D0F67607-D0A8-4447-96CB-7143D359D3E4@wetafx.co.nz>
 <2DC367F6-5A15-42DA-BF69-6B564BC17631@wetafx.co.nz>
Message-ID: <545C4EE0.6010707@msapiro.net>

On 11/06/2014 10:20 AM, John Young wrote:
> Sorry, I should have noted that the current archives are in month batches which is what we are after for all of our mail lists.
> 
> - archiving
> - monthly
> - private (admins only)


Private archives are available to any list member who authenticates with
her list password.

There is no setting that makes an archive available to the list admin only.


> On 7/11/2014, at 7:17 am, John Young <jy at wetafx.co.nz> wrote:
> 
>> 1 - We want to enable private archiving on all of our mailman lists.  Some already have archiving , most don?t.  But we want this enabled on all so we have the ability to go through the postings.


Put the following 3 lines in a file

archive = 1
archive_private = 1
archive_volume_frequency = 1

Then run the following shell script

#! /bin/sh
for list in `/path/to/mailman/bin/list_lists --bare` ; do
/path/to/mailman/bin/config_list -i /path/to/above/file $list
done


>> 2 - We want to purge all our existing archives older than a certain date.


See the script at <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/prune_arch>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From gh224391 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  7 10:14:26 2014
From: gh224391 at gmail.com (gerard)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 10:14:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set the same password if a user owns several
 lists?
In-Reply-To: <545BB4F2.6050701@msapiro.net>
References: <545B3FC6.7020207@gmail.com> <545BB4F2.6050701@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <545C8D72.4060702@gmail.com>

very thanks for your help.

-- 
G?rard Henry

From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Fri Nov  7 12:47:51 2014
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 06:47:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe Using Web Form
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWFpBdq+Fu3eLiVu6LWepGSLNLt5CpFVDLsnUzr1yNqFWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWFpBdq+Fu3eLiVu6LWepGSLNLt5CpFVDLsnUzr1yNqFWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <545CB167.4090800@Damon-Family.org>

I have been slowly working on a somewhat similar project. My thoughts on 
unsubscribing is to have the module know the admin password for the 
site, and use that to post into the mailman admin web form an 
unsubscribe request via curl.

On 11/6/14, 12:42 PM, Greg Sims wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> We are making good progress on our project thanks to your help a couple of
> weeks ago.  The Subscribe portion of the process is working and the text is
> being translated into Chinese.
>
> I'm struggling with the Unsubscribe portion of the project.  I extended the
> webform but can't get it to work.  My goal is for our users to use the same
> web page to subscribe to and unsubscribe from the list with a minimum
> number of interactions.  I understand the need for the two stage
> subscription process with email confirmation -- this is required (and
> working).  I would like the Unsubscribe to be one click and done.
>
> http://www.raystedman.org/daily-devotions/chinese-subscription
>
>
> Please note the user has no idea they have a system generated password --
> this is as it should be to keep things simple.  Most of our users are older
> and only have the skills to deal with minimal user complexity.  We need to
> keep things simple as a result.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help, Greg
>
> PS.  I looked at the Drupal extension for Mailman.  It carries too much
> overhead for large size lists.  We already have a mailman list with 10,000
> users and hope to double this number next year.  We can't afford to have a
> Drupal user account for each of these users.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/richard%40damon-family.org
>


-- 
Richard Damon


From greg at headingup.net  Sat Nov  8 00:28:32 2014
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 15:28:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe Using Web Form
Message-ID: <CAOXbGWH9YGri65eu7Zp_MTtgUrb=ovOOuFBbKYQV6S=z6n70hQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Mark,

Subscribe / Unsubscribe works well for the normal case thanks to your help.

(1) When I Unsubscribe an email address that does not exist, the result of
Posting the form is:

--------
Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.

---------

The error log is:

Nov 07 16:41:51 2014 admin(385):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

admin(385): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.12 -----]

admin(385): [----- Traceback ------]

admin(385): Traceback (most recent call last):

admin(385):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main

admin(385):     main()

admin(385):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 495, in
main

admin(385):     user, 'via the member options page', userack=1)

admin(385):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1007, in
DeleteMember

admin(385):     self.ApprovedDeleteMember(name, whence, admin_notif,
userack)

admin(385):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1023, in
ApprovedDeleteMember

admin(385):     self.removeMember(emailaddr)

admin(385):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line
221, in removeMember

admin(385):     self.__assertIsMember(member)

admin(385):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line
114, in __assertIsMember

admin(385):     raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member

admin(385): NotAMemberError: x at y.com
The backtrace ends in a "NotAMemberError" which is exactly what happened.
The "result" from the POST seems to be a bit off.  I need to determine the
difference between success and failure looking the the result of the POST.
 "we hit a bug!" is kind of a funny thing to match against.

(2) It appears that the Subscription sequence always returns the contents
of the file "subscribe.html".  Is this in fact always the case?  I tried to
subscribe to email address "foo" and did not receive an error -- even
though this is not a valid email address.  I suppose I could validate the
email address format with my PHP code and provide user feedback.

(3) It appears the Unsubscribe sequence I created allows for anyone to
unsubscribe anyone else -- all they need to know is an email address that
is subscribed to the list.  This is as a result of using the list admin
password in my PHP code.  I wish there was a way to pass the email address
and password of the subscriber from a non-digest email to my PHP code via
POST.  I tried turning personalization on.  It does not seem to be possible
to place a <form> in the footer (or header?) of the email.  It also appears
that mailman does not replace symbols in the body of an email.  This led me
to believe the only way to accomplish passing the email address and
password via POST is by writing a custom mailman filter that replaces the
symbols -- likely in the body of an email.

It there a simple way to get the subscribers password (and email address
but less important) via POST from a non-digest email to my PHP code?  This
ensures that someone using my Web Form can only unsubscribe the email
address of a mailman email they received (or have access to).

(4) When I get this all sorted out, would you like me to write it up for a
FAQ or something?  I would be happy to do this if you believe it is
worthwhile.

Thanks Mark!  Greg

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov  8 01:15:35 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 16:15:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe Using Web Form
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWH9YGri65eu7Zp_MTtgUrb=ovOOuFBbKYQV6S=z6n70hQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWH9YGri65eu7Zp_MTtgUrb=ovOOuFBbKYQV6S=z6n70hQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <545D60A7.9030402@msapiro.net>

On 11/07/2014 03:28 PM, Greg Sims wrote:
> 
> Subscribe / Unsubscribe works well for the normal case thanks to your help.
> 
> (1) When I Unsubscribe an email address that does not exist, the result of
> Posting the form is:
> 
> --------
> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12
...
> The error log is:
...
> admin(385):     raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
> 
> admin(385): NotAMemberError: x at y.com
> The backtrace ends in a "NotAMemberError" which is exactly what happened.
> The "result" from the POST seems to be a bit off.  I need to determine the
> difference between success and failure looking the the result of the POST.
>  "we hit a bug!" is kind of a funny thing to match against.


Actually, this is a real bug. It is unlikely to occur in practice, but
it can happen if you visit the options page for a user and unsubscribe
and between retrieving the options page and unsubscribing, the user is
unsubscribed by another process, or more likely, you visit the options
page, unsubscribe and then use the browser's back button to go back and
unsubscribe again.

I will fix it.


> (2) It appears that the Subscription sequence always returns the contents
> of the file "subscribe.html".  Is this in fact always the case?  I tried to
> subscribe to email address "foo" and did not receive an error -- even
> though this is not a valid email address.  I suppose I could validate the
> email address format with my PHP code and provide user feedback.


If you post an address like 'foo' to the subscribe CGI, you should get a
result like

Listname Subscription results
The email address you supplied is not valid. (E.g. it must contain an `@'.)

The validation is somewhat primitive and syntactic only, but it should
refuse to subscribe a syntactically valid address.

Did 'foo' actually get added to your list?


> (3) It appears the Unsubscribe sequence I created allows for anyone to
> unsubscribe anyone else -- all they need to know is an email address that
> is subscribed to the list.


This is exactly why Mailman does not allow unsubscribes without
authentication or confirmation.


> This is as a result of using the list admin
> password in my PHP code.  I wish there was a way to pass the email address
> and password of the subscriber from a non-digest email to my PHP code via
> POST.  I tried turning personalization on.  It does not seem to be possible
> to place a <form> in the footer (or header?) of the email.  It also appears
> that mailman does not replace symbols in the body of an email.  This led me
> to believe the only way to accomplish passing the email address and
> password via POST is by writing a custom mailman filter that replaces the
> symbols -- likely in the body of an email.


But, unless you actually get the list password from the user, how can
you know that it is the actual user that submitted the request. Either
the user has to provide authentication or you have to do email
confirmation. Otherwise, anyone can unsubscribe anyone.


> It there a simple way to get the subscribers password (and email address
> but less important) via POST from a non-digest email to my PHP code?  This
> ensures that someone using my Web Form can only unsubscribe the email
> address of a mailman email they received (or have access to).


I don't understand. If you mean you want to send the user's password to
the user in each non-digest list mail, if the list is personalized, the
string %(user_password)s in either msg_header or msg_footer will be
replaced by the user's password.

You can even craft a one-click unsubscribe link with something like

%(user_optionsurl)?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1&password=%(user_password)s

but any of that is a really bad idea. Sophisticated user's don't like to
see their passwords mailed in plain text, and unsophisticated users
reply to and forward list messages without removing things like
unsubscribe links specific to them.


> (4) When I get this all sorted out, would you like me to write it up for a
> FAQ or something?  I would be happy to do this if you believe it is
> worthwhile.


It might be. It depends on what you arrive at.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ignatenkobrain at fedoraproject.org  Sat Nov  8 15:29:27 2014
From: ignatenkobrain at fedoraproject.org (Igor Gnatenko)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 18:29:27 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and httpd vhost
Message-ID: <CAFMg4WCGhNPKeFzPaih69j-KL7gL=Kds0q7_xdZHZH8Uh0K4GQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey,

I've installed mailman and I'm trying to get webUI.
Fedora release 20 (Heisenbug)
mailman-2.1.18.1-1.fc20.x86_64

I have nginx as reverse proxy and vhost in apache for mailman.

/etc/nginx/conf.d/apache-proxy.conf
server {
        listen 80 default_server;
        server_name web.clanwars.org mm.clanwars.org;

        location / {
                proxy_set_header X-Real-IP  $remote_addr;
                proxy_set_header X-Forwarded-For $remote_addr;
                proxy_set_header Host $host;
                client_max_body_size 512M;
                proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8080;
        }

        location ~ /\.ht {
                deny all;
        }
}


/etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf
<VirtualHost *:8080>
  ServerName clanwars.org
  ServerAlias mm.clanwars.org
  ServerAdmin i.gnatenko.brain at gmail.com

  <Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
    AllowOverride None
    Options ExecCGI
    Require all granted
  </Directory>

  <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
    Options MultiViews FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    Require all granted
    AddDefaultCharset Off
  </Directory>
</VirtualHost>

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
ScriptAlias mm.clanwars.org:8080 /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/

# Uncomment the following line, replacing www.example.com with your server's
# name, to redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo page (recommended).

# RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://mm.clanwars.org/mailman/listinfo


Trying to open mm.clanwars.org/mailman, mm.clanwars.org:8080/mailman
Always - "Not Found"
The requested URL /mailman was not found on this server.


In logs nothing interesting.
217.26.6.9 - - [08/Nov/2014:17:22:48 +0300] "GET /mailman HTTP/1.1"
404 205 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:33.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/33.0" "-"

/var/log/audit/audit.log is empty. SELinux in Enforcing state.


Thoughts?
--
-Igor Gnatenko

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov  8 17:48:49 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 08:48:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and httpd vhost
In-Reply-To: <CAFMg4WCGhNPKeFzPaih69j-KL7gL=Kds0q7_xdZHZH8Uh0K4GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFMg4WCGhNPKeFzPaih69j-KL7gL=Kds0q7_xdZHZH8Uh0K4GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <545E4971.30002@msapiro.net>

On 11/08/2014 06:29 AM, Igor Gnatenko wrote:
> 
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
> Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
> ScriptAlias mm.clanwars.org:8080 /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
> 
> # Uncomment the following line, replacing www.example.com with your server's
> # name, to redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo page (recommended).
> 
> # RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://mm.clanwars.org/mailman/listinfo

> Trying to open mm.clanwars.org/mailman, mm.clanwars.org:8080/mailman
> Always - "Not Found"
> The requested URL /mailman was not found on this server.


Your ScriptAlias is for /mailman/. Have you tried something like
mm.clanwars.org/mailman/ or mm.clanwars.org/mailman/listinfo? The former
probably won't work, but both it and mm.clanwars.org/mailman probably
will if you actually uncomment the RedirectMatch.


> In logs nothing interesting.
> 217.26.6.9 - - [08/Nov/2014:17:22:48 +0300] "GET /mailman HTTP/1.1"
> 404 205 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:33.0) Gecko/20100101
> Firefox/33.0" "-"


how about /var/log/httpd/error_log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From greg at headingup.net  Sat Nov  8 22:14:51 2014
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 13:14:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe Using Web Form
Message-ID: <CAOXbGWHnuSA3iXjittYopjZ7Nhjo3ROCPmq6DDz=gZs8xYKKXw@mail.gmail.com>

>> (2) It appears that the Subscription sequence always returns the contents
>> of the file "subscribe.html".  Is this in fact always the case?  I tried
to
>> subscribe to email address "foo" and did not receive an error -- even
>> though this is not a valid email address.  I suppose I could validate the
>> email address format with my PHP code and provide user feedback.


>If you post an address like 'foo' to the subscribe CGI, you should get a
>result like

>Listname Subscription results
>The email address you supplied is not valid. (E.g. it must contain an `@'.)

>The validation is somewhat primitive and syntactic only, but it should
>refuse to subscribe a syntactically valid address.

>Did 'foo' actually get added to your list?

'foo' did not get added to the list as there is no way to for the system to
send a
validation email and get a response from the user.   It appears that
Posting:

        http://<SERVER>/mailman/subscribe/<LIST_NAME>
            with:
                email => <EMAIL_ADDRESS>
                fullname => <USERS_NAME>
                email-button => "Subscribe"

always returns the contents of the file "subscribe.html" even in the
presence
of an invalid address like 'foo'.  This is easy for me to work around as I
simply
check that EMAIL_ADDRESS has a valid format before Posting.  My Subscribe
code is working well for both normal and error cases.


>> (3) It appears the Unsubscribe sequence I created allows for anyone to
>> unsubscribe anyone else -- all they need to know is an email address that
>> is subscribed to the list.

>This is exactly why Mailman does not allow unsubscribes without
>authentication or confirmation.

I am now a believer that validating Unsubscribe through the user's email is
the
correct approach for my application.  I have code that works for the normal
Unsubscribe case but am having problems with the error cases.

Posting:

            http://<SERVER>/mailman/options/<LIST_NAME>
                with:
                    email => <EMAIL_ADDRESS>
                    login-unsub => "Unsubscribe"

always returns the string "The confirmation email has been sent.".  This is
true
even when the email address is not subscribed to the list -- this will
likely be the
case if the user mistypes their email address.

I did another test that was even more confusing.  I entered a valid email
address
that was not subscribed to the list.  In this case the string "The
confirmation email
has been sent." was received by my code consistent with what I said above.
The
reality is the unsubscribe validation email is never sent in this case.
This would
be very confusing for the user and will likely result in an "I Need Help
Unsubscribing!"
email to our webmaster.

I need to find a way to Post a CGI to Unsubscribe that tells my code if the
EMAIL_ADDRESS is subscribed to the list and if a validation email was
actually
sent.  I tried to Post:

        http://<SERVER>/mailman/options/<LIST_NAME>
            with:
                email => <EMAIL_ADDRESS>
                email-button => "Unsubscribe"

this does not seem to work for the normal path.

I feel like we are getting close.  The good news is my solution is only 50
lines of code
including the Subscribe / Unsubscribe <forms> on a single page.  It might
be interesting
to others if we can get this last piece sorted out.

Thanks again Mark!  Greg

From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Sat Nov  8 22:45:39 2014
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 16:45:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe Using Web Form
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWHnuSA3iXjittYopjZ7Nhjo3ROCPmq6DDz=gZs8xYKKXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWHnuSA3iXjittYopjZ7Nhjo3ROCPmq6DDz=gZs8xYKKXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <545E8F03.5030408@Damon-Family.org>

Mailman tries (and I think succeeds) at not letting an outsider know who 
is subscribed to a list (unless the list publishes its member list, then 
that list will reveal those who don't hide their email address.)

If you want to help someone unsubscribe without them needing to use the 
confirmation email, you should first validate that the email address is 
theirs (maybe through having your own account system where they have 
confirmed that the email address is theirs), then, using the admin 
password, check the membership list for the email, and then you can use 
the web form to unsubscribe them, again using the admin password.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov  9 16:27:20 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 07:27:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe Using Web Form
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWHnuSA3iXjittYopjZ7Nhjo3ROCPmq6DDz=gZs8xYKKXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWHnuSA3iXjittYopjZ7Nhjo3ROCPmq6DDz=gZs8xYKKXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <545F87D8.9010200@msapiro.net>

On 11/08/2014 01:14 PM, Greg Sims wrote:
> 
> It appears that
> Posting:
> 
>         http://<SERVER>/mailman/subscribe/<LIST_NAME>
>             with:
>                 email => <EMAIL_ADDRESS>
>                 fullname => <USERS_NAME>
>                 email-button => "Subscribe"<MM-Results>

> 
> always returns the contents of the file "subscribe.html" even in the
> presence
> of an invalid address like 'foo'.


Have you modified this template? The standard template contains the tag

<MM-Results>

which is replaced by an informative message.


> Posting:
> 
>             http://<SERVER>/mailman/options/<LIST_NAME>
>                 with:
>                     email => <EMAIL_ADDRESS>
>                     login-unsub => "Unsubscribe"
> 
> always returns the string "The confirmation email has been sent.".
...
> I need to find a way to Post a CGI to Unsubscribe that tells my code if the
> EMAIL_ADDRESS is subscribed to the list and if a validation email was
> actually
> sent.


As Richard indicated in another reply, if the membership roster is not
public, the responses are generic to prevent using the (un)subscribe
processes to fish for membership. Set the list's Privacy options... ->
Subscription rules -> private_roster to Anyone and you will get more
specific messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Nov  8 17:52:59 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 01:52:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  mailman and httpd vhost
In-Reply-To: <CAFMg4WCGhNPKeFzPaih69j-KL7gL=Kds0q7_xdZHZH8Uh0K4GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFMg4WCGhNPKeFzPaih69j-KL7gL=Kds0q7_xdZHZH8Uh0K4GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87lhnly6qc.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Igor Gnatenko writes:

 > ScriptAlias mm.clanwars.org:8080 /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/

Your syntax is broken.

ScriptAlias Directive

Description:    Maps a URL to a filesystem location and designates the
                target as a CGI script
Syntax:   ScriptAlias URL-path file-path|directory-path

The syntax specifies an URL-path, not an URL.  mm.clanwars.org:8080 is
a perfectly legal POSIX filename, though, so it's probably being
interpreted as /mm.clanwars.org:8080/.

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/mod/mod_alias.html for further details.

Regards,


From eravin at panix.com  Mon Nov 10 02:32:18 2014
From: eravin at panix.com (Ed Ravin)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 20:32:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion server trouble
In-Reply-To: <EA079711-37B9-47B5-8954-6728D17CA67A@rogers.com>
References: <EA079711-37B9-47B5-8954-6728D17CA67A@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20141110013218.GS19680@panix.com>

This is why it's important to keep server configurations in a
configuration management system, like Chef, Puppet, cfengine, Ansible,
Salt Stack, etc.  When set up right, the configuration management
will put back any unwanted OS changes, or at the very least tell
after an upgrade what files no longer contain your edits.

On Tue, Nov 04, 2014 at 11:59:02AM -0500, nxnw wrote:
...
> 1. Mostly good news - after the OS and server.app upgrades, mailman was (mostly) running. The only thing that was not working was the web interface. After a bit of investigation, I found that the upgrade overwrote /Library/Server/Web/Config/apache2/httpd_server_app.conf, so that file had to be edited (again) to add the following:
> 
> 	#Mailman
> 	Include /private/etc/apache2/extra/httpd-mailman.conf
> 
> I put the above right after "Include /Library/Server/Web/Config/apache2/other/*.conf". Apache must be restarted after the edit.

From my_list_address at yahoo.no  Mon Nov 10 03:37:05 2014
From: my_list_address at yahoo.no (Hal)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 03:37:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive merge and search
In-Reply-To: <545D9339.8020101@msapiro.net>
References: <54589EA6.5030804@yahoo.no> <54591A47.9030309@msapiro.net>
 <545B7744.6010203@yahoo.no> <545BB289.7060902@msapiro.net>
 <545CB288.3010509@yahoo.no> <545D1287.2080502@msapiro.net>
 <545D8C70.4000900@yahoo.no> <545D9339.8020101@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <546024D1.10704@yahoo.no>

PS: I just noticed that I've previously replied directly to you, Mark, 
instead of the list (pressing "Reply" instead of "Reply list" in my 
email program). Sorry about that. This one should reach the list.


On 08/11/2014 04:51, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/07/2014 07:22 PM, Hal wrote:

> Instead of using a temp gfile made with mktemp and then removing it, you
> can just make something more permanent. e.g.
>
> cat mylist.* > total
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/cleanarch < total > total_cleaned.

Thanks. Unfortunately cleanarch'ing didn't solve my issue.
I did some more research and found out that the MBOX format isn't 
standardized as there are 4 different variations around 
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/mail-mbox-formats.html). 
Confusing indeed. What's even stranger is that the Majordomo 
search-interface displays all of those same MBOXes without any issues.

Investigating the MBOX files in a text editor I found the problematic 
ones to have headers starting with ">From " (without the quotes) which 
the working ones didn't, so I removed all those lines from a couple of 
MBOX files, imported into the Mailman archives and all looked fine! 
Obviously I can't check every single posting, so does my discovery and 
solution sound feasible?


Hal

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 10 05:10:59 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 20:10:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive merge and search
In-Reply-To: <546024D1.10704@yahoo.no>
References: <54589EA6.5030804@yahoo.no> <54591A47.9030309@msapiro.net>
 <545B7744.6010203@yahoo.no> <545BB289.7060902@msapiro.net>
 <545CB288.3010509@yahoo.no> <545D1287.2080502@msapiro.net>
 <545D8C70.4000900@yahoo.no> <545D9339.8020101@msapiro.net>
 <546024D1.10704@yahoo.no>
Message-ID: <54603AD3.1060108@msapiro.net>

On 11/09/2014 06:37 PM, Hal wrote:
> 
> Investigating the MBOX files in a text editor I found the problematic
> ones to have headers starting with ">From " (without the quotes) which
> the working ones didn't, so I removed all those lines from a couple of
> MBOX files, imported into the Mailman archives and all looked fine!
> Obviously I can't check every single posting, so does my discovery and
> solution sound feasible?


Mailman's bin/arch is very liberal (actually too liberal, thus
cleanarch) in what it accepts as a "From " separator in a mbox.
It assumes that any line beginning with "From " is the start of a new
message. Messages should look like

>From user at example.com Sat Aug 16 15:10:02 2014
Some-Header: ...
Next-Header: ...
...
Last-Header: ...

first body line
next body line
...e
last body line

i.e. the first line of each message is of the form

>From user date

This is followed by headers which have a name ending with a colon and
which may be folded into multiple lines as long as the continuation
lines begin with a space.

The headers are terminated by an empty line (on the wire, the sequence
<CR><LF><CR><LF>) and the rest up to the next "From " separator is the body.

Sometimes, in some mbox formats, message bodies have lines that begin
with "From ". This confuses bin/arch into thinking a new message starts
there. bin/cleanarch looks at lines that begin with "From " and if they
don't look like

>From user date

or aren't followed by a header-like line, it prefixes the line with > so
it won't confuse bin/arch.

If however your mbox has true "From " separators that don't look like

>From user date

(perhaps because the date format is wrong or some other reason),
cleanarch will 'escape' them which would be wrong.

So cleanarch may have munged your mboxes or they may be weird for other
reasons. In any case, I think you need to look at the original mboxes,
maybe with something like "grep '^From '" (or maybe "egrep '^>?From '")
to verify that there is some kind of unescaped "From " line at the
beginning of each message and that there are no unescaped "From " lines
in message bodies and possibly fix the problems manually.

Note that removing all lines starting with ">From " may be problematic.
It could remove a body line if that body line originally started with
from. On the other hand, if such a line was in the headers, it would
cause premature termination of the headers which could be your issue,
but I would wonder how such a line got there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From bsfinkel at att.net  Mon Nov 10 05:24:19 2014
From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S. Finkel)
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 22:24:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive merge and search
In-Reply-To: <546024D1.10704@yahoo.no>
References: <54589EA6.5030804@yahoo.no> <54591A47.9030309@msapiro.net>
 <545B7744.6010203@yahoo.no> <545BB289.7060902@msapiro.net>
 <545CB288.3010509@yahoo.no> <545D1287.2080502@msapiro.net>
 <545D8C70.4000900@yahoo.no> <545D9339.8020101@msapiro.net>
 <546024D1.10704@yahoo.no>
Message-ID: <54603DF3.4090604@att.net>

On 11/9/2014 8:37 PM, Hal wrote:
> Thanks. Unfortunately cleanarch'ing didn't solve my issue.
> I did some more research and found out that the MBOX format isn't
> standardized as there are 4 different variations around
> (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/mail-mbox-formats.html).
> Confusing indeed. What's even stranger is that the Majordomo
> search-interface displays all of those same MBOXes without any issues.
>
> Investigating the MBOX files in a text editor I found the problematic
> ones to have headers starting with ">From " (without the quotes) which
> the working ones didn't, so I removed all those lines from a couple of
> MBOX files, imported into the Mailman archives and all looked fine!
> Obviously I can't check every single posting, so does my discovery and
> solution sound feasible?
>
>
> Hal

When I read a message that has "From " changed to ">From " (at the
beginning of a line), I have to trouble interpreting the mail.
The URL above says that the transformation "corrupts" mailboxes.
I would use the term "changes", as the e-mail body has been changed.
The term "corrupted", in my opinion, means something drastic;
adding a ">" in front of "From " does not make the message
unintelligible.

I dislike the format that uses "Content-Length:" to determine the end
of a message.  If I edit an archive file and, say delete one line that
contains a password, then I have to change the corresponding
"Content-Length:" line.

--Barry Finkel

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov 10 09:30:38 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:30:38 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive merge and search
In-Reply-To: <54603DF3.4090604@att.net>
References: <54589EA6.5030804@yahoo.no> <54591A47.9030309@msapiro.net>
 <545B7744.6010203@yahoo.no> <545BB289.7060902@msapiro.net>
 <545CB288.3010509@yahoo.no> <545D1287.2080502@msapiro.net>
 <545D8C70.4000900@yahoo.no> <545D9339.8020101@msapiro.net>
 <546024D1.10704@yahoo.no> <54603DF3.4090604@att.net>
Message-ID: <87d28vxxsh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Barry S. Finkel writes:
 > On 11/9/2014 8:37 PM, Hal wrote:

 > > I did some more research and found out that the MBOX format isn't
 > > standardized as there are 4 different variations around
 > > (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/mail-mbox-formats.html).

Jamie Zawinski's page http://www.jwz.org/doc/content-length.html has
some historical information not on that page, and is far more
entertaining (well, to warped minds like mine, anyway).  The most
important is that there are a lot more than 4 variations, and it turns
out that there's a good chance that a given mbox file can contain a
mixture of them.

 > > Investigating the MBOX files in a text editor I found the problematic
 > > ones to have headers starting with ">From " (without the quotes) which
 > > the working ones didn't, so I removed all those lines from a couple of
 > > MBOX files, imported into the Mailman archives and all looked fine!
 > > Obviously I can't check every single posting, so does my discovery and
 > > solution sound feasible?

I'm surprised that this works.  What should work is to remove the ">"
from From_ delimiter lines.

 > When I read a message that has "From " changed to ">From " (at the
 > beginning of a line), I have to trouble interpreting the mail.
 > The URL above says that the transformation "corrupts" mailboxes.
 > I would use the term "changes", as the e-mail body has been
 > changed.

See Jamie's page for why "corrupt" (in quotes) is of appropriate
severity.  In particular, the example of a digital signature is
salient.

 > I dislike the format that uses "Content-Length:" to determine the end
 > of a message.

So do we all.  I'm sure it was directly responsible for the decline of
Sun and its eventual consumption by Oracle. ;-)

From dentar99 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 10 16:15:21 2014
From: dentar99 at yahoo.com (Dentar99)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:15:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply to list out of control...
Message-ID: <5460D689.7060002@yahoo.com>

So, I had lots of problems with Yahoo users on my lists.  I did the research and
the upgrade, and it fixed the hell outta that...


BUT... Now my users (as well as myself) are getting an issue where hitting Reply
(regular reply, not reply all) are getting the list AND the original sender.
I've tried first_strip_reply_to and reply_goes_to_list, which I have no reason
to believe should not work.  I do NOT have an explicit set.

So, the whole reply-to thing wasn't broken before new mailman, so I know it
isn't the MUA (postfix..)  ... is it?

Yes, I searched the archives and all of that.



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 11 19:40:17 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 10:40:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply to list out of control...
In-Reply-To: <5460D689.7060002@yahoo.com>
References: <5460D689.7060002@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <54625811.6020905@msapiro.net>

On 11/10/2014 07:15 AM, Dentar99 wrote:
> So, I had lots of problems with Yahoo users on my lists.  I did the research and
> the upgrade, and it fixed the hell outta that...


Did you upgrade to Mailman 2.1.18-1?


> BUT... Now my users (as well as myself) are getting an issue where hitting Reply
> (regular reply, not reply all) are getting the list AND the original sender.
> I've tried first_strip_reply_to and reply_goes_to_list, which I have no reason
> to believe should not work.  I do NOT have an explicit set.


Look at the messages received from the list. If this is Mailman 2.1.18-1
and dmarc_moderation_action and/or from_is_list is Munge From and
reply_goes_to_list is Poster, there should be a Reply-To: header with
the original poster's address. If this is the case, and a simple 'reply'
includes addresses such as the list posting address which aren't in the
Reply-To:, then the fault is with the MUA doing the replying.

Both RFCs 2822 and 5322 (sec 3.6.2) say:

   The originator fields also provide the information required when
   replying to a message.  When the "Reply-To:" field is present, it
   indicates the mailbox(es) to which the author of the message suggests
   that replies be sent.  In the absence of the "Reply-To:" field,
   replies SHOULD by default be sent to the mailbox(es) specified in the
   "From:" field unless otherwise specified by the person composing the
   reply.

RFC 822 (still the actual standard) sec 4.4.4 says in part:

        For systems which automatically  generate  address  lists  for
        replies to messages, the following recommendations are made:
...
            o   If the "Reply-To" field exists, then the reply  should
                go to the addresses indicated in that field and not to
                the address(es) indicated in the "From" field.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Nov 12 04:40:58 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:40:58 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply to list out of control...
In-Reply-To: <54625811.6020905@msapiro.net>
References: <5460D689.7060002@yahoo.com>
	<54625811.6020905@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <871tp9xf05.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > Look at the messages received from the list. If this is Mailman 2.1.18-1
 > and dmarc_moderation_action and/or from_is_list is Munge From and
 > reply_goes_to_list is Poster, there should be a Reply-To: header with
 > the original poster's address.

I suspect the OP's list has historically munged Reply-To, and now
subscribers are getting annoying dupes because Munge From "moves" the
p=reject address in From to Reply-To, adding it to the list's address
which was already there according to the reply_to_list setting.

To the OP: If what you want is for the mail to go to list only, your
issue is Yahoo!'s fault.  (If not, the following rant doesn't apply,
and we need to figure out what is really going wrong at your site.)

Reply-To isn't broken, and neither is Mailman.  Yahoo! is deliberately
abusing the DMARC protocol because they had a massive security breach
("lesser of two evils"), and at least their tech staff knows exactly
what they're doing and admits it (apologies are prohibited under the
corporate NDA, of course ;-).  Just send the mail as is and let the
Yahoo! users complain to Yahoo! about the dupes.

Yahoo! is slowly (especially considering that one of their senior
techs is a co-author on the DMARC protocol document) moving toward
actually doing work on improving the situation since the spammer and
phishers are not going away, they're just temporarily thwarted.
Pressure from Yahoo! users might up the incentive to supply more
Yahoo! brainpower to the DMARC working group at the IETF. :-)


From greg at headingup.net  Wed Nov 12 05:06:22 2014
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:06:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupt Chinese Emails from Subscribe
Message-ID: <CAOXbGWH4D+si6Ge0PTcFbf4uB9szt_mjtcn6WKHOn0X+OaVwvA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

We created a chinese-devotion mailman list.  The list was created with
English as the default language and "en" as the only supported language.
We then created three files in the "en/" directory associated with the
list: verify.txt, unsub.txt and subscribeack.txt.  These files contain a
mixture of Chinese and English characters including mailman substitution
variables.

When Mailman sends these emails to Windows 7/Chrome/Gmail, iPad & iPhone
everything works as expected.  When the emails are received on a Mac, the
emails are corrupted.

Here are the steps we took so far:

   1. We verified that the characters in the files are all valid UTF-8.
   They passed using four different validation techniques.
   2. I copied template/zh-CH/verify.txt into the "en/" directory of our
   list.  Please note this file is also a mixture of Chinese and English
   characters including mailman substitution variables. We ran the test again
   and got the same results.  Please find below a sample of the email received
   on the Mac usings Mailman's original verify.txt file.


Subject:confirm f75bab69c4dca204575d5ee50c54e770d573cf99Date:Tue, 11 Nov
2014 13:43:28 -0600From:chinese-devotion-request at RayStedman.orgReply-To:
chinese-devotion-request at RayStedman.orgTo:foo at baz.com

?????
???????????? Chinese-Devotion ???????????????

?????????  from xxx.yyy.191.121
??????????????????????????????????????????"foo at baz.com"
<foo at baz.com>?? ?
????????????????
chinese-devotion at RayStedman.org?????????
????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????
????????????????????????

It seems that all the Chinese characters are corrupted. This test was
run by a friend that owns a Mac -- I changed the email and ip
addresses as a result.

Does Mailman do something different when it sends a "zh-CH" email than
an "en" email?  If so, I need to configure the list with zh-CH as the
default and only language.  I hope this will not change all the
screens to Chinese as I will not be able to maintain the list as the
admin.

I did see "Mailman as used by Mac users" in the archive where Macs
were having problems with digest emails being corrupted.  I'm not sure
how it applies in our case as we are dealing with the subscription
subsystem of Mailman.  The one similarity is digest was configured as
text in that case -- subscribe is also using text emails in our case.

I need to use someone elses computer to debug this issue as I do not
have a Mac.  What would you like us to do to help isolate the problem?

Thanks again, Greg

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Nov 12 06:18:17 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 14:18:17 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Corrupt Chinese Emails from Subscribe
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWH4D+si6Ge0PTcFbf4uB9szt_mjtcn6WKHOn0X+OaVwvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWH4D+si6Ge0PTcFbf4uB9szt_mjtcn6WKHOn0X+OaVwvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87tx25vvxi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Greg Sims writes:

 > Subject:confirm f75bab69c4dca204575d5ee50c54e770d573cf99Date:Tue, 11 Nov
 > 2014 13:43:28 -0600From:chinese-devotion-request at RayStedman.orgReply-To:
 > chinese-devotion-request at RayStedman.orgTo:foo at baz.com
 > 
 > ?????
???????????? Chinese-Devotion ???????????????

This, and the rest of the body look like perfectly good UTF-8 encoded
Chinese to me.  I'm getting a Chinese student to confirm that it's not
garbled.

Apple's mail client is a steaming pile of ####.  I'm not sure why it's
so bad.  I'm not sure what we can do about it.

 > I need to use someone elses computer to debug this issue as I do not
 > have a Mac.  What would you like us to do to help isolate the problem?

I have Macs but don't use Apple's client.  I can fire it up and see
what happens, if you tell me how to subscribe to the list (I assume
that's not a privacy problem or aything like that, right?)


From greg at headingup.net  Wed Nov 12 06:43:09 2014
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:43:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupt Chinese Emails from Subscribe
In-Reply-To: <87tx25vvxi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAOXbGWH4D+si6Ge0PTcFbf4uB9szt_mjtcn6WKHOn0X+OaVwvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87tx25vvxi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAOXbGWFXhGR6VgQVJyxz+NSiGorB45mNeS2jQ0MFBFCsydRxag@mail.gmail.com>

Here is the URL to subscribe to the list:

http://www.raystedman.org/daily-devotions/subscribe/chinese

Thanks for helping Stephen.

Here is what the original line in verify.txt looks like:

?????? %(listname)s ?????

This appears quite different than the first line you included in your
email.  Do they look the same to you?

Thanks, Greg


On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 9:18 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>
wrote:

> Greg Sims writes:
>
>  > Subject:confirm f75bab69c4dca204575d5ee50c54e770d573cf99Date:Tue, 11 Nov
>  > 2014 13:43:28 -0600From:chinese-devotion-request at RayStedman.orgReply-To
> :
>  > chinese-devotion-request at RayStedman.orgTo:foo at baz.com
>  >
>  > ?????????????????? Chinese-Devotion ???????????????
>
> This, and the rest of the body look like perfectly good UTF-8 encoded
> Chinese to me.  I'm getting a Chinese student to confirm that it's not
> garbled.
>
> Apple's mail client is a steaming pile of ####.  I'm not sure why it's
> so bad.  I'm not sure what we can do about it.
>
>  > I need to use someone elses computer to debug this issue as I do not
>  > have a Mac.  What would you like us to do to help isolate the problem?
>
> I have Macs but don't use Apple's client.  I can fire it up and see
> what happens, if you tell me how to subscribe to the list (I assume
> that's not a privacy problem or aything like that, right?)
>
>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Nov 12 11:01:00 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 19:01:00 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupt Chinese Emails from Subscribe
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWFXhGR6VgQVJyxz+NSiGorB45mNeS2jQ0MFBFCsydRxag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWH4D+si6Ge0PTcFbf4uB9szt_mjtcn6WKHOn0X+OaVwvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87tx25vvxi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAOXbGWFXhGR6VgQVJyxz+NSiGorB45mNeS2jQ0MFBFCsydRxag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87r3x8wxer.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Greg Sims writes:
 > Here is the URL to subscribe to the list:
 > 
 > http://www.raystedman.org/daily-devotions/subscribe/chinese
 > 
 > Thanks for helping Stephen.
 > 
 > Here is what the original line in verify.txt looks like:
 > 
 > ?????? %(listname)s ?????
 > 
 > This appears quite different than the first line you included in your
 > email.  Do they look the same to you?

Yes, they do.  But did I forget to tell you that I was once a ranking
authority on Oriental text encodings, with a book, a chapter in
another, and three magazine articles on the subject? :-)  Of course I
cheated and invoked a decoder by hand, getting this:

    ?????? Chinese-Devotion ?????

My Chinese student tells me that the order of the sentences doesn't
seem very Chinese (probably a literal translation from the English
version?), but that each sentence is perfectly intelligible.  So I
think the problem is that for some reason Apple's mail client refused
to decode the UTF-8 and display Chinese, or something like that.  The
mail as sent by Mailman is almost surely not corrupted.

It will take a day or two for me to get back to this, I have a very
busy day tomorrow (reporting deadline to my employer for Japanese
taxes).


From greg at headingup.net  Wed Nov 12 16:32:43 2014
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 07:32:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupt Chinese Emails from Subscribe
In-Reply-To: <87r3x8wxer.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAOXbGWH4D+si6Ge0PTcFbf4uB9szt_mjtcn6WKHOn0X+OaVwvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87tx25vvxi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAOXbGWFXhGR6VgQVJyxz+NSiGorB45mNeS2jQ0MFBFCsydRxag@mail.gmail.com>
 <87r3x8wxer.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAOXbGWGRU9cOr87mRgW_OxFufraMs21UoCZnvvheka6QQ4hfPA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for looking into this Stephen.  Here is the text we actually want
to send if we can get it to work.

????????????????????

???????????????"%(email)s"???????????

????????????????(Reply)??????(Send)??????????????????

??????????????????????????????????

?RayStedman.org?????

Thanks again, Greg

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 2:01 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>
wrote:

> Greg Sims writes:
>  > Here is the URL to subscribe to the list:
>  >
>  > http://www.raystedman.org/daily-devotions/subscribe/chinese
>  >
>  > Thanks for helping Stephen.
>  >
>  > Here is what the original line in verify.txt looks like:
>  >
>  > ?????? %(listname)s ?????
>  >
>  > This appears quite different than the first line you included in your
>  > email.  Do they look the same to you?
>
> Yes, they do.  But did I forget to tell you that I was once a ranking
> authority on Oriental text encodings, with a book, a chapter in
> another, and three magazine articles on the subject? :-)  Of course I
> cheated and invoked a decoder by hand, getting this:
>
>     ?????? Chinese-Devotion ?????
>
> My Chinese student tells me that the order of the sentences doesn't
> seem very Chinese (probably a literal translation from the English
> version?), but that each sentence is perfectly intelligible.  So I
> think the problem is that for some reason Apple's mail client refused
> to decode the UTF-8 and display Chinese, or something like that.  The
> mail as sent by Mailman is almost surely not corrupted.
>
> It will take a day or two for me to get back to this, I have a very
> busy day tomorrow (reporting deadline to my employer for Japanese
> taxes).
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 12 16:48:29 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 07:48:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupt Chinese Emails from Subscribe
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWH4D+si6Ge0PTcFbf4uB9szt_mjtcn6WKHOn0X+OaVwvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWH4D+si6Ge0PTcFbf4uB9szt_mjtcn6WKHOn0X+OaVwvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5463814D.2050102@msapiro.net>

On 11/11/2014 08:06 PM, Greg Sims wrote:
> 
> We created a chinese-devotion mailman list.  The list was created with
> English as the default language and "en" as the only supported language.
> We then created three files in the "en/" directory associated with the
> list: verify.txt, unsub.txt and subscribeack.txt.  These files contain a
> mixture of Chinese and English characters including mailman substitution
> variables.


There is a potential issue in that Mailman's default character set for
English is US-ASCII. Mailman may be sending these messages  with
'Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii' even though they contain
utf-8 encoded characters.

Possibly, some MUAs will recognize the utf-8 encoding and render it as
you intend while others do not.

You need to examine the Content-Type: header of the received message to
see if the above is correct. If so, the solution is to change the
default character set for English to utf-8. You do this by putting the line

add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8', 'ltr')

The only downside to doing this in general is that Python's email
package base64 encodes charset=utf-8 message parts. This makes them more
difficult to read is raw messages, but is not really a problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From greg at headingup.net  Wed Nov 12 22:51:12 2014
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 13:51:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupt Chinese Emails from Subscribe
Message-ID: <CAOXbGWFJPmM0pmXo16hXJBW19atpy34dpZy1hotJOXJra5x-Dg@mail.gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro Wrote:

> You need to examine the Content-Type: header of the received message to
> see if the above is correct. If so, the solution is to change the
> default character set for English to utf-8. You do this by putting the
line

> add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8', 'ltr')

You are correct Mark -- the email header is the source of the problem.  I
looked at the headers for the Subscription Verify email and found:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Just as you thought.

I then included the add_language clause and subscribed again. This time the
headers are:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

As expected.

I then replied to the Subscription Verify email and received a Welcome to
the List email -- with headers:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

This was a surprise for me -- and perhaps for you as well.

I unsubscribed and received the verification email with headers:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

This looks good.

I then replied to the Unsubscribe Verify email and received a You have been
Unsubscribed from the list with headers:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is yet another set of headers -- notice the 7bit encoding.

It looks like we need the last email message of Subscribe and Unsubscribe
sequences to respect:

add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8', 'ltr')

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 13 00:23:33 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:23:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupt Chinese Emails from Subscribe
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWFJPmM0pmXo16hXJBW19atpy34dpZy1hotJOXJra5x-Dg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWFJPmM0pmXo16hXJBW19atpy34dpZy1hotJOXJra5x-Dg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5463EBF5.1030008@msapiro.net>

On 11/12/2014 01:51 PM, Greg Sims wrote:
> 
> I then replied to the Subscription Verify email and received a Welcome to
> the List email -- with headers:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> 
> This was a surprise for me -- and perhaps for you as well.


Did you restart Mailman after adding the add_language line to mm_cfg.py?

I suspect you didn't. If you didn't, the new setting will be picked up
by web CGI processes because each interaction is a new process, but
email interactions are processed by Mailman's qrunner processes which
are persistent and won't see the change until you restart.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From greg at headingup.net  Thu Nov 13 01:20:56 2014
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 16:20:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupt Chinese Emails from Subscribe
Message-ID: <CAOXbGWGGPZUmvNYStrsJDHxBMrNfJz2WSqbYHwy03+ingOxHbw@mail.gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Did you restart Mailman after adding the add_language line to mm_cfg.py?

I did not restart Mailman after updating mm_cfg.py.

I just restarted and retested Subscribe and Unsubscribe.  Everything is
working well.

Thanks again Mark!  Greg

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Nov 13 02:55:53 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:55:53 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Corrupt Chinese Emails from Subscribe
In-Reply-To: <CAOXbGWGGPZUmvNYStrsJDHxBMrNfJz2WSqbYHwy03+ingOxHbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOXbGWGGPZUmvNYStrsJDHxBMrNfJz2WSqbYHwy03+ingOxHbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87h9y3x3rq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Greg Sims writes:

 > I just restarted and retested Subscribe and Unsubscribe.  Everything is
 > working well.

Great!


From my_list_address at yahoo.no  Tue Nov 18 15:09:20 2014
From: my_list_address at yahoo.no (Hal)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:09:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive merge and search
In-Reply-To: <87d28vxxsh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <54589EA6.5030804@yahoo.no> <54591A47.9030309@msapiro.net>
 <545B7744.6010203@yahoo.no> <545BB289.7060902@msapiro.net>
 <545CB288.3010509@yahoo.no> <545D1287.2080502@msapiro.net>
 <545D8C70.4000900@yahoo.no> <545D9339.8020101@msapiro.net>
 <546024D1.10704@yahoo.no> <54603DF3.4090604@att.net>
 <87d28vxxsh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <546B5310.4060208@yahoo.no>

On 10/11/2014 09:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Barry S. Finkel writes:
>   > On 11/9/2014 8:37 PM, Hal wrote:
>
>   > > I did some more research and found out that the MBOX format isn't
>   > > standardized as there are 4 different variations

> Jamie Zawinski's page http://www.jwz.org/doc/content-length.html has
> some historical information not on that page, and is far more
> entertaining (well, to warped minds like mine, anyway).

Oh my what a mess! Funny read though ;-)
I'm not surprised I've been having problems. That in addition to corrupt 
messages, missing subjects, having been through multiple systems and 
apparently being a mix of several MBOX formats.
Well, having finally completed importing all those MBOX files into 
Mailman I hope I never have to do it again.

I used the Thunderbird email program to organize them while 
simultaneously editing problematic MBOX documents in a text editor.


>   > > Investigating the MBOX files in a text editor I found the problematic
>   > > ones to have headers starting with ">From " (without the quotes) which
>   > > the working ones didn't, so I removed all those lines
>
> I'm surprised that this works.  What should work is to remove the ">"
> from From_ delimiter lines.

Failing to remove them resulted in every message appearing in the 
current month and without a subject. Using the Grep command in my text 
editor to remove those lines put them where they should be (correct 
dates) and with their subject headers.
I also realized that I had to rename all occurances of lines in the body 
starting with "From" to "from" or else those messages would get all 
messed up (not showing their body contents at all or only partly showing).


>   > When I read a message that has "From " changed to ">From " (at the
>   > beginning of a line), I have to trouble interpreting the mail.
>   > The URL above says that the transformation "corrupts" mailboxes.
>   > I would use the term "changes", as the e-mail body has been
>   > changed.
>
> See Jamie's page for why "corrupt" (in quotes) is of appropriate
> severity.  In particular, the example of a digital signature is
> salient.

I didn't try it, but I could probably have renamed all lines in the body 
from "From" to ">From". Oh well, at least it works now.

Thanks for the insight from you and others and especially for Mark 
Sapiro's help and patience on the subject!


Hal

From my_list_address at yahoo.no  Tue Nov 18 15:35:46 2014
From: my_list_address at yahoo.no (Hal)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:35:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive merge and search
In-Reply-To: <545D1287.2080502@msapiro.net>
References: <54589EA6.5030804@yahoo.no> <54591A47.9030309@msapiro.net>
 <545B7744.6010203@yahoo.no> <545BB289.7060902@msapiro.net>
 <545CB288.3010509@yahoo.no> <545D1287.2080502@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <546B5942.60506@yahoo.no>

On 07/11/2014 19:42, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/07/2014 03:52 AM, Hal wrote:

>> For not allowing text/html
  [snip]
>> But does the above apply to *all* archived postings, or does it only
>> filter anything that comes in from now on?
>
>
> It applies to all posts that arrive after you make those settings, buth
> in the archive and in the messages delivered to the list. It won't
> affect messages already archived or in the mylist.mbox file, even if you
> rebuild the archive.

That's fine, but good to know for later.
So for any new messages from now on I want my list to work this way:

1) HTML formatted postings should be converted to plain text before 
reaching other members.

2) HTML formatted postings can retain their formatting for the archive 
(I believe the archive is in the HTML format anyway?), but if it only 
archives whatever is sent to list members I don't mind. The important 
thing is that members receive plain text messages.

3) Since many people have their email programs set by default to send in 
HTML these days I just want Mailman to do its filtering, then continue 
by sending the posting as plain text without any moderator request or 
alerting the sender.

4) I'd like to block all attachements (list members should only receive 
plain text files).
40kb is already set for Max_message_size (in "General options" within 
the list administration web interface) which seems to have worked fine 
(as far as I know).

Furthermore I understand that Filter_filename_extensions (in the 
"Content filtering" section) in addition removes any attachements based 
on specific filename *extensions* regardless of their file size?

I see exe, bat, cmd and a bunch of other filetypes I've never heard of 
(geared towards Windows/DOS users I suppose -I'm a Mac user) are listed, 
but I suppose I could block .zip and those pesky .vcf/.vcard and 
"winmail.dat" files the same way.
When such extensions are encountered, are they just removed from the 
messages while the message posting itself is passed on to list members, 
or is the whole posting stopped for approval first?

I'm thinking out loud here, so feel free to chime in for better ideas, 
but I'm thinking there are two kind of attachement groups which need 
different actions to be taken:

Deliberate attachements: zip files, gif/jpg images etc. which a poster 
wants to share. The message/attachement should be stopped from reaching 
the list and an email sent to the poster with a "your message has been 
blocked. Please resend your message, this time without an attachement" 
type of message.

Accidental attachements: winmail.dat, .vcf or .vcard an so on. Many 
users don't know (as with HTML postings) that their email program is set 
up to send this stuff. IMHO those attachements don't have anything to do 
with the actual content of their postings, so Mailman should just remove 
the attachement(s), then pass on the rest of the message to the list.

Having said that, have I understood things correctly by setting up my 
"Content filtering" options as follows? (based on what you've said and 
what I've read here: 
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030684):

Edit_filter_content:	YES
Filter_mime_types:	(left blank)
Pass_mime_types:	multipart
			message/rfc822
			text/plain
			text/html
filter_filename_ext.:	exe
			bat
			cmd
			com
			pif
			scr
			vbs
			cpl
			zip
			dat
			vcf
			vcard
pass_filename_ext.:	(left blank)
Collapse_alternatives:	YES
conv_html_to_plaintext:	YES
Filter_action:		DISCARD


>>> A different obfuscation for email addresses would require source code
>>> modification. I.e., there's no 'plugin' for it.
>>
>> Is this a feature that could be suggested for the upcoming Mailman 3?
>> Perhaps an optional user-configuration through the web admin interface?
>
>
> Mailman 3 uses different and 'pluggable' archiving. The archiver that is
> bundled with MM 3 is called Hyperkitty. I'm not sure what address
> obfuscation it does.

Thanks. I'll look into it.



>> Failing that, is there a way I could have the (currently private)
>> archive have a filter before HTTP access?
>
> You could create your own CGI or other web process to access the
> archives and present them any way you want.

Being ignorant on the subject, what kind of pre-written CGI script 
should I try to find (i.e. "search engine to web archive gateway" or 
something like that?).

You previously suggested htdig (http://www.htdig.org/) with your patches 
for allowing my visitors to search through both the Mailman archives and 
my website. Assuming this is a more ready-to-use solution than the other 
search engines out there, are there features I will be missing out on 
(e.g. the ability to use CSS and Ajax for making its search results 
appear more in line with the rest of my website) and is it still secure? 
I've read that malicious code can sometimes be entered as search phrases 
and damage the database if the search engine isn't using "parametrized 
queries".

I've found other search engines (Nutch, Lucene, Solr, Tipue search, 
Xapian and Ajax live search) but I have no idea if they're suitable for 
my use and how well they work or how difficult they are to set up. 
Opinions from anyone are highly appreciated.
Thanks.


Hal

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 18 17:31:18 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:31:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive merge and search
In-Reply-To: <546B5942.60506@yahoo.no>
References: <54589EA6.5030804@yahoo.no> <54591A47.9030309@msapiro.net>
 <545B7744.6010203@yahoo.no> <545BB289.7060902@msapiro.net>
 <545CB288.3010509@yahoo.no> <545D1287.2080502@msapiro.net>
 <546B5942.60506@yahoo.no>
Message-ID: <546B7456.7020705@msapiro.net>

On 11/18/2014 06:35 AM, Hal wrote:

> So for any new messages from now on I want my list to work this way:
> 
> 1) HTML formatted postings should be converted to plain text before
> reaching other members.


In Mailman's Content filtering msection you want the following:

filter_content: Yes
filter_mime_types: empty
pass_mime_types:
    multipart
    text/plain
    text/html
filter_filename_extensions: irrelevant, default list OK
pass_filename_extensions: empty
collapse_alternatives: Yes
convert_html_to_plaintext: Yes
filter_action: as desired, this will only apply to a message which
contains no text/html or text/plain part.


> 2) HTML formatted postings can retain their formatting for the archive
> (I believe the archive is in the HTML format anyway?), but if it only
> archives whatever is sent to list members I don't mind. The important
> thing is that members receive plain text messages.


What will be archived is what was delivered to list members.


> 3) Since many people have their email programs set by default to send in
> HTML these days I just want Mailman to do its filtering, then continue
> by sending the posting as plain text without any moderator request or
> alerting the sender.


Settings in 1) do that.


> 4) I'd like to block all attachements (list members should only receive
> plain text files).
> 40kb is already set for Max_message_size (in "General options" within
> the list administration web interface) which seems to have worked fine
> (as far as I know).


'attachments' is an imprecise word, but settings in 1) will do what you
want.


> Furthermore I understand that Filter_filename_extensions (in the
> "Content filtering" section) in addition removes any attachements based
> on specific filename *extensions* regardless of their file size?
> 
> I see exe, bat, cmd and a bunch of other filetypes I've never heard of
> (geared towards Windows/DOS users I suppose -I'm a Mac user) are listed,
> but I suppose I could block .zip and those pesky .vcf/.vcard and
> "winmail.dat" files the same way.


They will all be removed anyway unless they have a MIME Content-Type of
text/plain or text/html which is unlikely.


> When such extensions are encountered, are they just removed from the
> messages while the message posting itself is passed on to list members,
> or is the whole posting stopped for approval first?


They are just removed.


> I'm thinking out loud here, so feel free to chime in for better ideas,
> but I'm thinking there are two kind of attachement groups which need
> different actions to be taken:
> 
> Deliberate attachements: zip files, gif/jpg images etc. which a poster
> wants to share. The message/attachement should be stopped from reaching
> the list and an email sent to the poster with a "your message has been
> blocked. Please resend your message, this time without an attachement"
> type of message.


Content filtering will just remove them.


> Accidental attachements: winmail.dat, .vcf or .vcard an so on. Many
> users don't know (as with HTML postings) that their email program is set
> up to send this stuff. IMHO those attachements don't have anything to do
> with the actual content of their postings, so Mailman should just remove
> the attachement(s), then pass on the rest of the message to the list.


winmail.dat is really more of a 'deliberate' attachment. It is a message
part with MIME type application/vnd.ms-tnef which is a Microsoft
Outlook/Exchange 'transport neutral encapsulation format' way of
encoding attachments.

.vcf and .vcard 'attachments' have Content-Type text/vcard or possibly
application/vcard+json or application/vcard+xml.

In any case, since these do not have Content-Type text/plain or
text/html, they will be removed.


> Having said that, have I understood things correctly by setting up my
> "Content filtering" options as follows? (based on what you've said and
> what I've read here:
> http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030684):
> 
> Edit_filter_content:    YES
> Filter_mime_types:    (left blank)
> Pass_mime_types:    multipart
>             message/rfc822
>             text/plain
>             text/html
> filter_filename_ext.:    exe
>             bat
>             cmd
>             com
>             pif
>             scr
>             vbs
>             cpl
>             zip
>             dat
>             vcf
>             vcard
> pass_filename_ext.:    (left blank)
> Collapse_alternatives:    YES
> conv_html_to_plaintext:    YES
> Filter_action:        DISCARD


Maybe. The only difference between this and 1) above is message/rfc822.

If I forward a message to your list as an 'attachment', do you want to
remove that forwarded message from my post or do you want to accept the
plain text or possibly HTML converted to plain text parts of that
forwarded message?

If you want to remove it, leave message/rfc822 out of the list, if you
want to accept the result of applying contentent filtering to it, put
message/rfc822 in the list.


>>> Failing that, is there a way I could have the (currently private)
>>> archive have a filter before HTTP access?
>>
>> You could create your own CGI or other web process to access the
>> archives and present them any way you want.
> 
> Being ignorant on the subject, what kind of pre-written CGI script
> should I try to find (i.e. "search engine to web archive gateway" or
> something like that?).


I doubt very much that you'll find anything pre-written that will meet
your needs.


> You previously suggested htdig (http://www.htdig.org/) with your patches
> for allowing my visitors to search through both the Mailman archives and
> my website.


To be clear, htdig is a search engine that can index and search all or a
portion of your web site. The patches developed by Richard Barrett and
currently supported by me add a search form to the main archive table of
contents page for a list and invoke htdig to do the search. This search
is only of the archive of that list.


> Assuming this is a more ready-to-use solution than the other
> search engines out there,


For a general search of your web site, probably not a good assumption.


> are there features I will be missing out on
> (e.g. the ability to use CSS and Ajax for making its search results
> appear more in line with the rest of my website) and is it still secure?
> I've read that malicious code can sometimes be entered as search phrases
> and damage the database if the search engine isn't using "parametrized
> queries".


I don't think that malicious search phrases is an issue with htdig, but
I don't know for sure that it isn't.

It probably wouldn't be too difficult to incorporate CSS into the search
results pages, but I've never tried it. Ajax might be more problematic.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jdd at dodin.org  Thu Nov 20 17:21:44 2014
From: jdd at dodin.org (jdd)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:21:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archiving an other list
Message-ID: <546E1518.5060704@dodin.org>

Hello :-)

I'm a happy mailman admin :-)

But I have an extra problem. A group I read but don't manage (video 
oriented) have a mailing list which is not archived. The only reason is 
that nobody there knows how to archive it, and I have no way to access 
myself they server (nor really wants to).

so I wonder if I could use my mailman instance, for example creating a 
dummy mailing list with only me as subscriber to send it every mail from 
my group and have it archived (of course with the group owner consent).

is there anything I can do not to break anything :-)

thanks
jdd

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 21 00:08:47 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 15:08:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archiving an other list
In-Reply-To: <546E1518.5060704@dodin.org>
References: <546E1518.5060704@dodin.org>
Message-ID: <546E747F.6040903@msapiro.net>

On 11/20/2014 08:21 AM, jdd wrote:
> 
> so I wonder if I could use my mailman instance, for example creating a
> dummy mailing list with only me as subscriber to send it every mail from
> my group and have it archived (of course with the group owner consent).


This will work, but you will also want to subscribe
<other_list-bounces at otherserver> (or possibly
<other_list-bounces+yourlist=yourserver at otherserver> if the other list
is VERPing) to your list and set it to no mail to avoid have posts held
for not being from a member and avoid accepting nonmember posts.

Also, if the archive can be public, see <http://www.mail-archive.com/>.


> is there anything I can do not to break anything :-)


I think the above covers it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Olivier.Nicole at cs.ait.ac.th  Fri Nov 21 08:47:07 2014
From: Olivier.Nicole at cs.ait.ac.th (Olivier Nicole)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 14:47:07 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regexp in accept_these_nonmembers
Message-ID: <wu71toxdmh0.fsf@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th>

Hi,

I have a problem with a regular expression in accept_these_nonmembers
filter:

I have the regexp:

^root\@.*bknix\.co\.th$

That should read: accept any message sent by root at anything.bknix.co.th
But a message sent by root at web.bknix.co.th is not being accepted
automatically.

I need some help to see why.

mailman is version 2.1.15

Best regards,

Olivier
-- 

From jdd at dodin.org  Fri Nov 21 09:19:11 2014
From: jdd at dodin.org (jdd)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 09:19:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archiving an other list
In-Reply-To: <546E747F.6040903@msapiro.net>
References: <546E1518.5060704@dodin.org> <546E747F.6040903@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <546EF57F.3070903@dodin.org>

Le 21/11/2014 00:08, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :

> Also, if the archive can be public, see <http://www.mail-archive.com/>.

I know it, but it don't works (never receive the confirmation mail), I 
don't know why :-(

>
>
>> is there anything I can do not to break anything :-)
>
>
> I think the above covers it.
>
seen, thanks!!

jdd

From benfell at parts-unknown.org  Fri Nov 21 08:38:46 2014
From: benfell at parts-unknown.org (David Benfell)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 23:38:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives not migrated properly
Message-ID: <20141121073846.GA65072@home.parts-unknown.org>

Hi all,

I migrated from Linux to FreeBSD a few months ago and I'm just now
(yes, shame on me) noticing that my archives are broken. I've tried a
few things to fix this but I'm still getting 403 Forbidden.

First, here is the current Apache (2.4) configuration:

        ServerAdmin benfell at parts-unknown.org
        ServerName  mail.parts-unknown.org

        # Indexes + Directory Root.
        DirectoryIndex index.html index.cgi index.pl index.php
index.xhtml index.htm
        DocumentRoot /var/www/mail.parts-unknown.org/

        Include sites-available/parts-unknown.org-strip-www
        Include sites-available/server-status-common

        LogLevel debug

        # CGI Directory
        ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
        <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin">
                AllowOverride All
                Options +ExecCGI -MultiViews +SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
                Require all granted
        </Directory>
        Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
        <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/">
                AllowOverride All
                Options +ExecCGI -MultiViews +SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
                Require all granted
        </Directory>
        Alias /icons/ /usr/local/www/icons/
        <Directory /icons/>
                Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews
                AllowOverride All
                Require all granted
        </Directory>
        <Directory />
                Options FollowSymLinks
                AllowOverride All
        </Directory>
        <Directory /var/www/mail.parts-unknown.org/>
                Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews
                AllowOverride All
                Require all granted
        </Directory>

Here is /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/:

home# ls -al /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/                                                                                                        
total 16
drwxrwsr-x  2 root  mailman  512 Nov 20 23:36 .
drwxrwsr-x  4 root  mailman  512 Aug 17 18:41 ..
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman   18 Nov 20 22:56 mailman ->
../private/mailman
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman   29 Nov 20 22:56 philosophical-cafe ->
../private/philosophical-cafe
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman   19 Nov 20 22:56 thoughts ->
../private/thoughts

And correspondingly,

home# ls -al /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
total 72
drwxrws--x   9 root     mailman   512 Nov 20 22:55 .
drwxrwsr-x   4 root     mailman   512 Aug 17 18:41 ..
drwxrwsr-x  12 mailman  mailman  1024 Nov  3 03:27 benfell-committee
drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman  mailman   512 Apr 25  2014
benfell-committee.mbox
drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman  mailman   512 Apr 11  2014 mailman
drwxrwsr-x  12 mailman  mailman  1024 Nov  2 03:27 philosophicalcafe
drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman  mailman   512 Apr 12  2014
philosophicalcafe.mbox
drwxrwsr-x  12 mailman  mailman  1024 Nov  2 03:27 thoughts
drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman  mailman   512 Apr 24  2014 thoughts.mbox

The 403 Forbidden comes when I try to access any archive page via a
browser.

What am I missing?

-- 
David Benfell <benfell at parts-unknown.org>
See https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 if you don't understand the
attachment.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 819 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20141120/367cf977/attachment.sig>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 21 16:59:41 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:59:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archiving an other list
In-Reply-To: <546EF57F.3070903@dodin.org>
References: <546E1518.5060704@dodin.org> <546E747F.6040903@msapiro.net>
 <546EF57F.3070903@dodin.org>
Message-ID: <546F616D.8020704@msapiro.net>

On 11/21/2014 12:19 AM, jdd wrote:
> Le 21/11/2014 00:08, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :

>>
>>> is there anything I can do not to break anything :-)
>>
>>
>> I think the above covers it.
>>
> seen, thanks!!

A couple more things. Be sure to turn off password reminders either for
the list or for the other_list-bounces member, and you don't really need
to subscribe yourself. A list can have no members and will still accept
and archive posts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jdd at dodin.org  Fri Nov 21 17:34:53 2014
From: jdd at dodin.org (jdd)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 17:34:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archiving an other list
In-Reply-To: <546F616D.8020704@msapiro.net>
References: <546E1518.5060704@dodin.org> <546E747F.6040903@msapiro.net>
 <546EF57F.3070903@dodin.org> <546F616D.8020704@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <546F69AD.9040104@dodin.org>

Le 21/11/2014 16:59, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :

> to subscribe yourself. A list can have no members and will still accept
> and archive posts.
>
oh, yes, I wanted to subscribe to have posts accepted :-)

jdd

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 21 18:03:33 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 09:03:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives not migrated properly
In-Reply-To: <20141121073846.GA65072@home.parts-unknown.org>
References: <20141121073846.GA65072@home.parts-unknown.org>
Message-ID: <546F7065.50508@msapiro.net>

On 11/20/2014 11:38 PM, David Benfell wrote:
> 
> I migrated from Linux to FreeBSD a few months ago and I'm just now
> (yes, shame on me) noticing that my archives are broken. I've tried a
> few things to fix this but I'm still getting 403 Forbidden.
> 
> First, here is the current Apache (2.4) configuration:
> 
...
>         # CGI Directory
>         ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
>         <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin">
>                 AllowOverride All
>                 Options +ExecCGI -MultiViews +SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
>                 Require all granted
>         </Directory>
>         Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
>         <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/">
>                 AllowOverride All
>                 Options +ExecCGI -MultiViews +SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
>                 Require all granted
>         </Directory>


I think the issue is +SymLinksIfOwnerMatch above. This should be just
+FollowSymLinks since the owners don't match.

...
> home# ls -al /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/                                                                                                        
> total 16
> drwxrwsr-x  2 root  mailman  512 Nov 20 23:36 .
> drwxrwsr-x  4 root  mailman  512 Aug 17 18:41 ..
> lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman   18 Nov 20 22:56 mailman ->
> ../private/mailman
> lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman   29 Nov 20 22:56 philosophical-cafe ->
> ../private/philosophical-cafe
> lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman   19 Nov 20 22:56 thoughts ->
> ../private/thoughts
> 
> And correspondingly,
> 
> home# ls -al /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
> total 72
> drwxrws--x   9 root     mailman   512 Nov 20 22:55 .
> drwxrwsr-x   4 root     mailman   512 Aug 17 18:41 ..
> drwxrwsr-x  12 mailman  mailman  1024 Nov  3 03:27 benfell-committee
> drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman  mailman   512 Apr 25  2014
> benfell-committee.mbox
> drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman  mailman   512 Apr 11  2014 mailman
> drwxrwsr-x  12 mailman  mailman  1024 Nov  2 03:27 philosophicalcafe
> drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman  mailman   512 Apr 12  2014
> philosophicalcafe.mbox
> drwxrwsr-x  12 mailman  mailman  1024 Nov  2 03:27 thoughts
> drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman  mailman   512 Apr 24  2014 thoughts.mbox
> 
> The 403 Forbidden comes when I try to access any archive page via a
> browser.


If my analysis is correct, you should be able to access the private
benfell-committee archives OK, and actually be able to access any list's
archives via <https://mail.parts-unknown.org/mailman/private/LISTNAME/>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 181 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20141121/3ebb8446/attachment.sig>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 21 18:08:22 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 09:08:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regexp in accept_these_nonmembers
In-Reply-To: <wu71toxdmh0.fsf@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th>
References: <wu71toxdmh0.fsf@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th>
Message-ID: <546F7186.8070504@msapiro.net>

On 11/20/2014 11:47 PM, Olivier Nicole wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a problem with a regular expression in accept_these_nonmembers
> filter:
> 
> I have the regexp:
> 
> ^root\@.*bknix\.co\.th$
> 
> That should read: accept any message sent by root at anything.bknix.co.th
> But a message sent by root at web.bknix.co.th is not being accepted
> automatically.


Your regexp should work although it will actually also accept things
like 'root at xbknix.co.th'. Also, '@' is not special and doesn't need to
be escaped. I would use '^root@(.*\.)?bknix\.co\.th$'.

However, none of this explains your issue.

What is the reason why posts from root at web.bknix.co.th are held? Is it
'post by non-member to members only list' or some other reason? If some
other, what is the reason.

If it is non-member post, the address matched against
accept_these_nonmembers is one of two addresses. By default, it is the
address in the From: header, but if USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is set to Yes in
mm_cfg.py, the address in the Sender: header is used if there is one.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From benfell at parts-unknown.org  Fri Nov 21 22:36:30 2014
From: benfell at parts-unknown.org (David Benfell)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:36:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SOLVED: Re:  archives not migrated properly
In-Reply-To: <546F7065.50508@msapiro.net>
References: <20141121073846.GA65072@home.parts-unknown.org>
 <546F7065.50508@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20141121213630.GA85851@home.parts-unknown.org>

On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 09:03:33AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> >         Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
> >         <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/">
> >                 AllowOverride All
> >                 Options +ExecCGI -MultiViews +SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
> >                 Require all granted
> >         </Directory>
> 
> I think the issue is +SymLinksIfOwnerMatch above. This should be just
> +FollowSymLinks since the owners don't match.
> 
This does indeed seem to have solved it. Thanks!

-- 
David Benfell <benfell at parts-unknown.org>
See https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 if you don't understand the
attachment.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 819 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20141121/90ccf9b8/attachment-0001.sig>

From fourre-tout at woki.fr  Sat Nov 22 12:44:15 2014
From: fourre-tout at woki.fr (fourre-tout at woki.fr)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 12:44:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] resend list of held message via email
Message-ID: <20141122114414.GK4073@www.rebellyon.info>

Bonjour,

1) I don't see the command to write in header (subject e.g.) for request the list of helding messages of the list. List with Hex-string confirm for each message if possible.
(E.G. : listname-request at toto.fr?subject=listheld password)

2) How with command-line re-sent all held messages of a list with their Hex-string confirm. The same sent mail when message become held.

3) Which command to write in header for request to re-send a particular held message with his Hex-string confirm ?
(E.G. : listname-request at toto.fr?subject=held 5 password)

The goal is to down web page admindb.

Thank you very much.
-- 

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov 23 16:37:52 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 07:37:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] resend list of held message via email
In-Reply-To: <20141122114414.GK4073@www.rebellyon.info>
References: <20141122114414.GK4073@www.rebellyon.info>
Message-ID: <5471FF50.8040906@msapiro.net>

On 11/22/2014 03:44 AM, fourre-tout at woki.fr wrote:
> 
> 1) I don't see the command to write in header (subject e.g.) for request the list of helding messages of the list. List with Hex-string confirm for each message if possible.
> (E.G. : listname-request at toto.fr?subject=listheld password)


There is no email command to retrieve a list of held messages.


> 2) How with command-line re-sent all held messages of a list with their Hex-string confirm. The same sent mail when message become held.


Such a command would be fairly easy to implement, but currently doesn't
exist. See the script at <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_requests>
(mirrored at <http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/list_requests>) for
an alternative that may suit your purpose.


> 3) Which command to write in header for request to re-send a particular held message with his Hex-string confirm ?
> (E.G. : listname-request at toto.fr?subject=held 5 password)


There is no email command to do this.


> The goal is to down web page admindb.


Implementing the functions you are looking for would not be difficult
for someone who knows Python and Mailman. For 1) and 3), you would only
need to create scripts Mailman/Commands/cmd_listheld.py and
Mailman/Commands/cmd_held.py to do what you want.

2) would require a fairly simple script. For example the script at
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_requests> could be easily modified
to mail notices instead of listing requests.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From addw at phcomp.co.uk  Sun Nov 23 19:20:17 2014
From: addw at phcomp.co.uk (Alain Williams)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 18:20:17 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to set up equivalent domains
Message-ID: <20141123182016.GT7518@phcomp.co.uk>

Hi,

I have some lists that wish to appear in 2 different domains. For various
reasons the organisation has 2 names which is reflected in 2 different domain
names.

Eg so that mail sent to either of these addresses go to the same list:

chat at domain_1.org

chat at domain_2.org

I am not really worried that the From: address be one or the other as long as
mailman will accept the 2 as being the same.

If mailman can't do it I could probably get exim to do some rewriting.

Thanks in advance

-- 
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256  http://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers Ltd. Registration Information: http://www.phcomp.co.uk/contact.php
#include <std_disclaimer.h>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 24 02:06:17 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 17:06:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to set up equivalent domains
In-Reply-To: <20141123182016.GT7518@phcomp.co.uk>
References: <20141123182016.GT7518@phcomp.co.uk>
Message-ID: <54728489.20308@msapiro.net>

On 11/23/2014 10:20 AM, Alain Williams wrote:
> 
> I have some lists that wish to appear in 2 different domains. For various
> reasons the organisation has 2 names which is reflected in 2 different domain
> names.
> 
> Eg so that mail sent to either of these addresses go to the same list:
> 
> chat at domain_1.org
> 
> chat at domain_2.org
> 
> I am not really worried that the From: address be one or the other as long as
> mailman will accept the 2 as being the same.


Mailman will do its part just fine. To be squeeky clean, assume the
list's host_name (near the bottom of the General Options page) is
domain_1.org. You need to ensure that either Privacy options... ->
Recipient filters -> require_explicit_destination is No or that
chat at domain_2.org is included in acceptable_aliases to avoid posts to
chat at domain_2.org being held for 'Implicit Destination'.

Actually, it is deprecated and shouldn't be relied on, but as long as
the list name (chat) matches, you won't get an 'Implicit Destination'
hold even if require_explicit_destination is Yes.
	

> If mailman can't do it I could probably get exim to do some rewriting.


You still need to get exim to pipe the mail to Mailman, but you don't
need to rewrite any headers. If you have a 'standard' exim config for
Mailman, I think all you need is to ensure both domains are in the

domainlist mm_domains=

definition.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Olivier.Nicole at cs.ait.ac.th  Mon Nov 24 06:15:23 2014
From: Olivier.Nicole at cs.ait.ac.th (Olivier Nicole)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 12:15:23 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regexp in accept_these_nonmembers
In-Reply-To: <546F7186.8070504@msapiro.net> (message from Mark Sapiro on Fri,
 21 Nov 2014 09:08:22 -0800)
Message-ID: <wu7ppcdch78.fsf@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th>

Mark,

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> writes:

> On 11/20/2014 11:47 PM, Olivier Nicole wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I have a problem with a regular expression in accept_these_nonmembers
>> filter:
>> 
>> I have the regexp:
>> 
>> ^root\@.*bknix\.co\.th$
>> 
>> That should read: accept any message sent by root at anything.bknix.co.th
>> But a message sent by root at web.bknix.co.th is not being accepted
>> automatically.
>
>
> Your regexp should work although it will actually also accept things
> like 'root at xbknix.co.th'. Also, '@' is not special and doesn't need to
> be escaped. I would use '^root@(.*\.)?bknix\.co\.th$'.

Thank you, I was not sure to what extend I could use the regexp syntax.

>
> However, none of this explains your issue.
>
> What is the reason why posts from root at web.bknix.co.th are held? Is it
> 'post by non-member to members only list' or some other reason? If some
> other, what is the reason.

Sorry, I overlooked the "Message has implicit destination" part. Now it
makes sense.

Best regards,

Olivier

> If it is non-member post, the address matched against
> accept_these_nonmembers is one of two addresses. By default, it is the
> address in the From: header, but if USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is set to Yes in
> mm_cfg.py, the address in the Sender: header is used if there is one.

-- 

From ddodell at mac.com  Mon Nov 24 00:54:09 2014
From: ddodell at mac.com (David Dodell)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:54:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OS X Question --- yes I know <sigh>
Message-ID: <61560BCD-24F3-4394-9BC3-C968C31443EB@mac.com>

Hi, I know from past experience that the OS X version of Mailman is met with some contempt because of what Apple did with it .. but I have it working well for several years on a 10.7.5 Lion Server, and it has been very stable.

However, I want to explore hosting some of the virtual domains I have setup on my server.

Hosting multiple virtual domains without any issues, however want to start using mailman with some of those virtual domains.
 
I saw this support article at:
 
Mac OS X Server v10.6: Configuring the Mail service so Mailman can support virtual domains - Apple Support <http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT3878>
 
but this is for 10.6 ... looks like it "might" work for 10.7 ... 
 
Paths look the same ... anyone have any ideas?
 
If it does work, will mail from that mailing list show originated from the virtual, versus "real" domain?
 
Thanks

David

From ferriol at musaik.net  Mon Nov 24 13:05:59 2014
From: ferriol at musaik.net (Ferriol)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:05:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError accessing into web admin
	interface
Message-ID: <54731F27.7010309@musaik.net>

Hi,

I'm trying to access to the web admin interface and I can't
After authentication says "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.13"

I looked to the mailman error and read:
admin(14653): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.13 -----]
admin(14653): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(14653): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in
run_main
admin(14653):     main()
admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 197,
in main
admin(14653):     print doc.Format()
admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 336,
in Format
admin(14653):     output.append(Container.Format(self, indent))
admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 265,
in Format
admin(14653):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
in HTMLFormatObject
admin(14653):     return item.Format(indent)
admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 422,
in Format
admin(14653):     output = output + Container.Format(self, indent+2)
admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 265,
in Format
admin(14653):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
in HTMLFormatObject
admin(14653):     return item.Format(indent)
admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 201,
in Format
admin(14653):     output = output + self.FormatRow(i, indent + 2)
admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 189,
in FormatRow
admin(14653):     output = output + self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2)
admin(14653): UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3
in position 71: ordinal not in range(128)

If I tried access directly to the subscribers list, it works:
https://server_name/admin/list_name/members

If I access https://server_name/admin/list_name/ crash
Crashes too in
https://server_name/admin/list_name/nondigest
https://server_name/admin/list_name/topics
All other pages of the web admin interface works

I tried to look the configuration in command line executing:
config_list -o file list_name
But also raises UnicodeDecodeError

I don't know how can I find which configuration value is the problem ?
And when I'll find I don't know how can I fix it...

Please, any Idea ?

Thanks in advance !!!


From realcr at gmail.com  Sun Nov 23 21:00:19 2014
From: realcr at gmail.com (realcr)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:00:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman docker container (Apache,
	Postfix on Ubuntu 14.04)
Message-ID: <CAE8kFFDsZp9Ud+C-B-+RDjEmPnv4Di9sAW-t540uBszxd52G8g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
It took me about a week to get a working setup of Mailman inside Docker
(Apache, Postfix on Ubuntu 14.04). I learned a lot from reading past
messages on this list and I thought I could contribute back somehow.

The full working setup could be found here:
https://github.com/realcr/mailman_docker

It really works out of the box. You just fill in the configuration files
and you have a working mailman server. (Including the ability to backup and
restore).

I'm pretty new to this, and there must be some things I have overlooked. If
you see them, please tell me. I hope that you will find it useful.

Regards,
real.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 24 20:14:53 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 11:14:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OS X Question --- yes I know <sigh>
In-Reply-To: <61560BCD-24F3-4394-9BC3-C968C31443EB@mac.com>
References: <61560BCD-24F3-4394-9BC3-C968C31443EB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <547383AD.6070208@msapiro.net>

On 11/23/2014 03:54 PM, David Dodell wrote:
>  
> I saw this support article at:
>  
> Mac OS X Server v10.6: Configuring the Mail service so Mailman can support virtual domains - Apple Support <http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT3878>
>  
> but this is for 10.6 ... looks like it "might" work for 10.7 ... 
>  
> Paths look the same ... anyone have any ideas?
>  
> If it does work, will mail from that mailing list show originated from the virtual, versus "real" domain?


<rant>
See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>. You are using and Apple
package and referencing an Apple support article. Why are you here?

I suspect the answer lies somewhere on the continuum between "The GNU
Mailman project provides better support for Apple's Mailman package than
Apple does" and "Apple doesn't support Mailman". If that is the case,
perhaps you should consider a FLOSS OS as well.
</rant>


My concern is I see nothing in the referenced document about putting
add_virtualhost() lines in mm_cfg.py. Thus, either that is a serious
omission in the article, or Apple is doing something in their package
that I know nothing about.

So I have questions starting with?

1) How do you create lists for Apple's Mailman?

2) Does this process allow you to specify the (virtual) host for the list?

If we look at step 9) in the Apple support doc, and use their example
with virtual email domains virtual1.dom and virtual2.dom, and assume for
discussion that the corresponding web domains are www.virtual1.dom and
www.virtual2.dom, you would also put

add_virtualhost('www.virtual1.dom', 'virtual1.dom')
add_virtualhost('www.virtual2.dom', 'virtual2.dom')

in mm_cfg.py.

Then, you could create a list in virtual1.dom with a command like

bin/newlist -urlhost=www.virtual1.dom list_name

and answer the prompts for list admin address and list password.

Or you could use Mailman's create CGI by going to a url like

http://www.virtual1.dom/mailman/create

Here, the list's domain is determined by the domain in the URL. Note
that web host names like www.virtual1.dom are for example only. They
could be anything and they can be the same as the email host names.

There are two caveats. web host names need to be unique, i.e., you can't
use the same (virtual) web host for two virtual email domains, and list
names have to be globally unique, i.e. you can't have the same (case
insensitive) list name in two different domains.

Given all the above, a list in a virtual domain will use the virtual
domain names for everything that Mailman does.

When you ask "will mail from that mailing list show originated from the
virtual, versus "real" domain?", the answer depends what you mean.

The envelope sender and any headers from Mailman will all use the
virtual domain, but some Received: headers will show the domain will
show the domain that Postfix uses to identify itself.

The above advice/answers depend on Apple's package doing things in a
fairly standard way. If that is not the case, then it all may be wrong.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 24 20:20:44 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 11:20:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regexp in accept_these_nonmembers
In-Reply-To: <wu7ppcdch78.fsf@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th>
References: <wu7ppcdch78.fsf@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th>
Message-ID: <5473850C.2000407@msapiro.net>

On 11/23/2014 09:15 PM, Olivier Nicole wrote:
> 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> writes:
>>
>> Your regexp should work although it will actually also accept things
>> like 'root at xbknix.co.th'. Also, '@' is not special and doesn't need to
>> be escaped. I would use '^root@(.*\.)?bknix\.co\.th$'.
> 
> Thank you, I was not sure to what extend I could use the regexp syntax.


Regexps provided to Mailman are all Python flavor regexps and are
usually compiled in IGNORECASE mode. Any legal Python regexp is allowed
and will be matched as in Python's re module
<https://docs.python.org/2/library/re.html#regular-expression-syntax>.


> Sorry, I overlooked the "Message has implicit destination" part. Now it
> makes sense.


I guess that means you know how to fix it?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 24 21:10:49 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 12:10:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError accessing into web admin
	interface
In-Reply-To: <54731F27.7010309@musaik.net>
References: <54731F27.7010309@musaik.net>
Message-ID: <547390C9.8080408@msapiro.net>

On 11/24/2014 04:05 AM, Ferriol wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to access to the web admin interface and I can't
> After authentication says "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.13"
> 
> I looked to the mailman error and read:
> admin(14653): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.13 -----]
> admin(14653): [----- Traceback ------]
> admin(14653): Traceback (most recent call last):
> admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in
> run_main
> admin(14653):     main()
> admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 197,
> in main
> admin(14653):     print doc.Format()
> admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 336,
> in Format
> admin(14653):     output.append(Container.Format(self, indent))
> admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 265,
> in Format
> admin(14653):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
> admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
> in HTMLFormatObject
> admin(14653):     return item.Format(indent)
> admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 422,
> in Format
> admin(14653):     output = output + Container.Format(self, indent+2)
> admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 265,
> in Format
> admin(14653):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
> admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
> in HTMLFormatObject
> admin(14653):     return item.Format(indent)
> admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 201,
> in Format
> admin(14653):     output = output + self.FormatRow(i, indent + 2)
> admin(14653):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 189,
> in FormatRow
> admin(14653):     output = output + self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2)
> admin(14653): UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3
> in position 71: ordinal not in range(128)


This is probably an English language list so it's Mailman character set
is us-ascii, and there is something (?) that has non-ascii, probably
utf-8 because 0xc3 is a utf-8 leadin, encoded text.

Finding exactly what is problematic.

The additional Python and environment information from the above error
log entry may help.


> If I tried access directly to the subscribers list, it works:
> https://server_name/admin/list_name/members
> 
> If I access https://server_name/admin/list_name/ crash
> Crashes too in
> https://server_name/admin/list_name/nondigest
> https://server_name/admin/list_name/topics
> All other pages of the web admin interface works
> 
> I tried to look the configuration in command line executing:
> config_list -o file list_name
> But also raises UnicodeDecodeError


And the full traceback from this may help too.


> I don't know how can I find which configuration value is the problem ?


Nor do I without some additional info.


> And when I'll find I don't know how can I fix it...


You can post one or more error log entries with the complete traceback,
python and environment info, or possibly the traceback from config_list
is even better.

Also, does this occur with all lists or only one?

Here are some suggestions:

If it occurs with only one list, if you send me off list a copy of
/var/lib/mailman/lists/LIST_NAME/config.pck, I'll try to find the problem.

You can change the code in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py around
line 189 which currently is

        for i in range(len(self.cells[row])):
            output = output + self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2)


and make it

        output = unicode(output, errors='replace')
        for i in range(len(self.cells[row])):
            output = output + unicode(
                self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2), errors='replace')
        output = output.encode(errors='replace')

This should avoid the UnicodeDecodeError and instead result in the
non-ascii characters being replaced with '?'

Alternatively, you could replace the above two lines with

        from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
        try:
            for i in range(len(self.cells[row])):
                output = output + self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2)
        except UnicodeDecodeError:
            syslog('error', 'UnicodeDecodeError: %s', output)

which should result in the problem bit being omitted from the page, and
Mailman's error log containing the html for the part of the page leading
up to the problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ferriol at musaik.net  Tue Nov 25 02:15:15 2014
From: ferriol at musaik.net (Ferriol)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 02:15:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError accessing into web admin
	interface
In-Reply-To: <547390C9.8080408@msapiro.net>
References: <54731F27.7010309@musaik.net> <547390C9.8080408@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5473D823.6000507@musaik.net>

Hi,

Thanks for you response,

El 24/11/14 a les 21:10, Mark Sapiro ha escrit:
>
> This is probably an English language list so it's Mailman character set
> is us-ascii, and there is something (?) that has non-ascii, probably
> utf-8 because 0xc3 is a utf-8 leadin, encoded text.
>
> Finding exactly what is problematic.
>
> The additional Python and environment information from the above error
> log entry may help.
This is not an English list but uses a latin alphabet is in Catalan that
uses tittles and is latin_1 encoding

Some full log entries below
>
> And the full traceback from this may help too.
$  config_list -o config listname
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/sbin/config_list", line 362, in <module>
    main()
  File "/usr/sbin/config_list", line 355, in main
    do_output(listname, outfile)
  File "/usr/sbin/config_list", line 128, in do_output
    do_list_categories(mlist, k, None, outfp)
  File "/usr/sbin/config_list", line 198, in do_list_categories
    outfp.write(NL.join(lines).replace('"', '\\"'))
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xe9' in
position 9: ordinal not in range(128)
> Also, does this occur with all lists or only one?
In 4 lists. In one on General options, topics and non-digest options,
other one general options and non-digest options and the other two only
in general options. May be has the same information in some value...
>         output = unicode(output, errors='replace')
>         for i in range(len(self.cells[row])):
>             output = output + unicode(
>                 self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2), errors='replace')
>         output = output.encode(errors='replace')
>
I tried this and doesn't work, this is the log entry:

Nov 24 22:59:19 2014 admin(27848):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(27848): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.13 -----]
admin(27848): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(27848): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in
run_main
admin(27848):     main()
admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line
62, in main
admin(27848):     list_listinfo(mlist, language)
admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line
161, in list_listinfo
admin(27848):     replacements = mlist.GetStandardReplacements(lang)
admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py", line
383, in GetStandardReplacements
admin(27848):     '<mm-mailman-footer>' : self.GetMailmanFooter(),
admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py", line
61, in GetMailmanFooter
admin(27848):     '<p>', MailmanLogo()))).Format()
admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 268,
in Format
admin(27848):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
in HTMLFormatObject
admin(27848):     return item.Format(indent)
admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 362,
in Format
admin(27848):     output = output + Container.Format(self, indent)
admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 268,
in Format
admin(27848):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
in HTMLFormatObject
admin(27848):     return item.Format(indent)
admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 268,
in Format
admin(27848):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
in HTMLFormatObject
admin(27848):     return item.Format(indent)
admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 204,
in Format
admin(27848):     output = output + self.FormatRow(i, indent + 2)
admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 192,
in FormatRow
admin(27848):     output = output.encode(errors='replace')
admin(27848): TypeError: encode() takes no keyword arguments
admin(27848): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(27848): sys.version     =   2.6.6 (r266:84292, Dec 27 2010, 00:02:40)
[GCC 4.4.5]
admin(27848): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(27848): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(27848): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(27848): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(27848): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(27848): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(27848):     SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.16 (Debian)
admin(27848):     SCRIPT_NAME: /listinfo
admin(27848):     SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.2.16 (Debian)
Server at servername Port 80</address>
admin(27848):
admin(27848):     REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(27848):     PATH_INFO: /listname
admin(27848):     SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.0
admin(27848):     QUERY_STRING: 
admin(27848):     HTTP_X_REAL_IP: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
admin(27848):     HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/31.0 Iceweasel/31.2.0
admin(27848):     HTTP_CONNECTION: close
admin(27848):     SERVER_NAME: servername
admin(27848):     REMOTE_ADDR: 192.168.100.3
admin(27848):     PATH_TRANSLATED: /etc/apache2/htdocs/listname
admin(27848):     SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(27848):     SERVER_ADDR: 192.168.100.4
admin(27848):     DOCUMENT_ROOT: /etc/apache2/htdocs
admin(27848):     PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
admin(27848):     SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
admin(27848):     SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at localhost
admin(27848):     HTTP_HOST: servername
admin(27848):     HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL: max-age=0
admin(27848):     REQUEST_URI: /listinfo/listname
admin(27848):     HTTP_ACCEPT:
text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
admin(27848):     GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(27848):     HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
admin(27848):     REMOTE_PORT: 59936
admin(27848):     HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: ca,en-us;q=0.7,en;q=0.3
admin(27848):     HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate

>
> Alternatively, you could replace the above two lines with
>
>         from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
>         try:
>             for i in range(len(self.cells[row])):
>                 output = output + self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2)
>         except UnicodeDecodeError:
>             syslog('error', 'UnicodeDecodeError: %s', output)
>
> which should result in the problem bit being omitted from the page, and
> Mailman's error log containing the html for the part of the page leading
> up to the problem.

This works perfect, with this I can find all values with rare characters.

I'm reseting this values with config_list. I prepare a file with
value='' p.ex.
# -*- python -*-
# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
info=''
welcome_msg=''
msg_footer=''
topics=''

and then I do config_list -i file listname


Thanks, I solved the problem with your help ! Thanks for your work !
>
Nov 24 11:59:52 2014 admin(14688):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(14688): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.13 -----]
admin(14688): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(14688): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(14688):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in
run_main
admin(14688):     main()
admin(14688):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 197,
in main
admin(14688):     print doc.Format()
admin(14688):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 336,
in Form
at
admin(14688):     output.append(Container.Format(self, indent))
admin(14688):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 265,
in Form
at
admin(14688):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
admin(14688):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
in HTMLF
ormatObject
admin(14688):     return item.Format(indent)
admin(14688):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 422,
in Form
at
admin(14688):     output = output + Container.Format(self, indent+2)
admin(14688):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 265,
in Form
at
admin(14688):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
admin(14688):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
in HTMLF
ormatObject
admin(14688):     return item.Format(indent)
admin(14688):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 201,
in Form
at
admin(14688):     output = output + self.FormatRow(i, indent + 2)
admin(14688):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 189,
in Form
atRow
admin(14688):     output = output + self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2)
admin(14688): UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3
in positi
on 71: ordinal not in range(128)
admin(14688): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(14688): sys.version     =   2.6.6 (r266:84292, Dec 27 2010, 00:02:40)
[GCC 4.4.5]
admin(14688): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(14688): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(14688): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(14688): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(14688): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(14688): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(14688):     HTTP_COOKIE: listname2+admin=280200000069184d7254732
80000003465353535383036366365353261336338383665353639633336366532396538326235393
5623061; listname+admin=280200000069dc4f7254732800000063306264653665
663031336531353335643234623961663732653034343335646431376237313364
admin(14688):     SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.16 (Debian)
admin(14688):     SCRIPT_NAME: /admin
admin(14688):     SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.2.16 (Debian)
Server at servername Port 80</address>
admin(14688):
admin(14688):     REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(14688):     PATH_INFO: /listname/
admin(14688):     SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.0
admin(14688):     QUERY_STRING: 
admin(14688):     HTTP_X_REAL_IP: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
admin(14688):     HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
rv:31.0) Gecko/
20100101 Firefox/31.0 Iceweasel/31.2.0
admin(14688):     HTTP_CONNECTION: close
admin(14688):     SERVER_NAME: servername
admin(14688):     REMOTE_ADDR: 192.168.100.3
admin(14688):     PATH_TRANSLATED: /etc/apache2/htdocs/listname/
admin(14688):     SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(14688):     SERVER_ADDR: 192.168.100.4
admin(14688):     DOCUMENT_ROOT: /etc/apache2/htdocs
admin(14688):     PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
admin(14688):     SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admin
admin(14688):     SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at localhost
admin(14688):     HTTP_HOST: servername
admin(14688):     REQUEST_URI: /admin/listname/
admin(14688):     HTTP_ACCEPT:
text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0
.9,*/*;q=0.8
admin(14688):     GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(14688):     HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
admin(14688):     REMOTE_PORT: 48729
admin(14688):     HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: ca,en-us;q=0.7,en;q=0.3
admin(14688):     HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate
Nov 24 12:02:26 2014 admin(14732):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(14732): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.13 -----]
admin(14732): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(14732): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(14732):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in
run_main
admin(14732):     main()
admin(14732):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 197,
in main
admin(14732):     print doc.Format()
admin(14732):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 336,
in Form
at
admin(14732):     output.append(Container.Format(self, indent))
admin(14732):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 265,
in Form
at
admin(14732):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
admin(14732):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
in HTMLF
ormatObject
admin(14732):     return item.Format(indent)
admin(14732):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 422,
in Form
at
admin(14732):     output = output + Container.Format(self, indent+2)
admin(14732):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 265,
in Form
at
admin(14732):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
admin(14732):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
in HTMLF
ormatObject
admin(14732):     return item.Format(indent)
admin(14732):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 201,
in Form
at
admin(14732):     output = output + self.FormatRow(i, indent + 2)
admin(14732):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 189,
in Form
atRow
admin(14732):     output = output + self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2)
admin(14732): UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3
in positi
on 65: ordinal not in range(128)
admin(14732): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(14732): sys.version     =   2.6.6 (r266:84292, Dec 27 2010, 00:02:40)
[GCC 4.4.5]
admin(14732): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(14732): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(14732): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(14732): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(14732): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(14732): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(14732):     HTTP_COOKIE: listname2+admin=280200000069184d7254732
80000003465353535383036366365353261336338383665353639633336366532396538326235393
5623061; listname+admin=280200000069dc4f7254732800000063306264653665
663031336531353335643234623961663732653034343335646431376237313364
admin(14732):     SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.16 (Debian)
admin(14732):     SCRIPT_NAME: /admin
admin(14732):     SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.2.16 (Debian)
Server at servername Port 80</address>
admin(14732):
admin(14732):     REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(14732):     PATH_INFO: /listname/nondigest
admin(14732):     SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.0
admin(14732):     QUERY_STRING: 
admin(14732):     HTTP_X_REAL_IP: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
admin(14732):     HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
rv:31.0) Gecko/
20100101 Firefox/31.0 Iceweasel/31.2.0
admin(14732):     HTTP_CONNECTION: close
admin(14732):     HTTP_REFERER: https://servername/admin/listname
/members
admin(14732):     SERVER_NAME: servername
admin(14732):     REMOTE_ADDR: 192.168.100.3
admin(14732):     PATH_TRANSLATED: /etc/apache2/htdocs/listname/nondig
est
admin(14732):     SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(14732):     SERVER_ADDR: 192.168.100.4
admin(14732):     DOCUMENT_ROOT: /etc/apache2/htdocs
admin(14732):     PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
admin(14732):     SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admin
admin(14732):     SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at localhost
admin(14732):     HTTP_HOST: servername
admin(14732):     REQUEST_URI: /admin/listname/nondigest
admin(14732):     HTTP_ACCEPT:
text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0
.9,*/*;q=0.8
admin(14732):     GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(14732):     HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
admin(14732):     REMOTE_PORT: 48775
admin(14732):     HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: ca,en-us;q=0.7,en;q=0.3
admin(14732):     HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate
Nov 24 12:02:53 2014 admin(14743):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(14743): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.13 -----]
admin(14743): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(14743): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(14743):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in
run_main
admin(14743):     main()
admin(14743):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 197,
in main
admin(14743):     print doc.Format()
admin(14743):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 336,
in Form
at
admin(14743):     output.append(Container.Format(self, indent))
admin(14743):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 265,
in Form
at
admin(14743):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
admin(14743):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
in HTMLF
ormatObject
admin(14743):     return item.Format(indent)
admin(14743):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 422,
in Form
at
admin(14743):     output = output + Container.Format(self, indent+2)
admin(14743):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 265,
in Form
at
admin(14743):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
admin(14743):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
in HTMLF
ormatObject
admin(14743):     return item.Format(indent)
admin(14743):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 201,
in Form
at
admin(14743):     output = output + self.FormatRow(i, indent + 2)
admin(14743):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 189,
in Form
atRow
admin(14743):     output = output + self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2)
admin(14743):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 173,
in Form
atCell
admin(14743):     item_format = HTMLFormatObject(item, indent+4)
admin(14743):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
in HTMLF
ormatObject
admin(14743):     return item.Format(indent)
admin(14743):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 201,
in Form
at
admin(14743):     output = output + self.FormatRow(i, indent + 2)
admin(14743):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 189,
in Form
atRow
admin(14743):     output = output + self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2)
admin(14743): UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3
in positi
on 64: ordinal not in range(128)
admin(14743): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(14743): sys.version     =   2.6.6 (r266:84292, Dec 27 2010, 00:02:40)
[GCC 4.4.5]
admin(14743): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(14743): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(14743): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(14743): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(14743): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(14743): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(14743):     HTTP_COOKIE: listname2+admin=280200000069184d7254732
80000003465353535383036366365353261336338383665353639633336366532396538326235393
5623061; listname+admin=280200000069dc4f7254732800000063306264653665
663031336531353335643234623961663732653034343335646431376237313364
admin(14743):     SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.16 (Debian)
admin(14743):     SCRIPT_NAME: /admin
admin(14743):     SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.2.16 (Debian)
Server at servername Port 80</address>
admin(14743):
admin(14743):     REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(14743):     PATH_INFO: /listname/topics
admin(14743):     SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.0
admin(14743):     QUERY_STRING: 
admin(14743):     HTTP_X_REAL_IP: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
admin(14743):     HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
rv:31.0) Gecko/
20100101 Firefox/31.0 Iceweasel/31.2.0
admin(14743):     HTTP_CONNECTION: close
admin(14743):     HTTP_REFERER: https://servername/admin/listname
/members
admin(14743):     SERVER_NAME: servername
admin(14743):     REMOTE_ADDR: 192.168.100.3
admin(14743):     PATH_TRANSLATED: /etc/apache2/htdocs/listname/topics
 
admin(14743):     SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(14743):     SERVER_ADDR: 192.168.100.4
admin(14743):     DOCUMENT_ROOT: /etc/apache2/htdocs
admin(14743):     PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
admin(14743):     SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admin
admin(14743):     SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at localhost
admin(14743):     HTTP_HOST: servername
admin(14743):     REQUEST_URI: /admin/listname/topics
admin(14743):     HTTP_ACCEPT:
text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0
.9,*/*;q=0.8
admin(14743):     GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(14743):     HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
admin(14743):     REMOTE_PORT: 48790
admin(14743):     HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: ca,en-us;q=0.7,en;q=0.3
admin(14743):     HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate
Nov 24 22:08:57 2014 admin(26751):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(26751): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.13 -----]
admin(26751): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(26751): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(26751):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in
run_main
admin(26751):     main()
admin(26751):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 197,
in main
admin(26751):     print doc.Format()
admin(26751):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 336,
in Form
at
admin(26751):     output.append(Container.Format(self, indent))
admin(26751):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 265,
in Form
at
admin(26751):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
admin(26751):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
in HTMLF
ormatObject
admin(26751):     return item.Format(indent)
admin(26751):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 422,
in Form
at
admin(26751):     output = output + Container.Format(self, indent+2)
admin(26751):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 265,
in Form
at
admin(26751):     output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
admin(26751):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 51,
in HTMLF
ormatObject
admin(26751):     return item.Format(indent)
admin(26751):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 201,
in Form
at
admin(26751):     output = output + self.FormatRow(i, indent + 2)
admin(26751):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 189,
in Form
atRow
admin(26751):     output = output + self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2)
admin(26751): UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3
in positi
on 71: ordinal not in range(128)
admin(26751): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(26751): sys.version     =   2.6.6 (r266:84292, Dec 27 2010, 00:02:40)
[GCC 4.4.5]
admin(26751): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(26751): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(26751): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(26751): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(26751): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(26751): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(26751):     HTTP_REFERER: https://servername/admin/listname
/
admin(26751):     SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.16 (Debian)
admin(26751):     SCRIPT_NAME: /admin
admin(26751):     SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.2.16 (Debian)
Server at servername Port 80</address>
admin(26751):
admin(26751):     REQUEST_METHOD: POST
admin(26751):     PATH_INFO: /listname/
admin(26751):     SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.0
admin(26751):     QUERY_STRING: 
admin(26751):     HTTP_X_REAL_IP: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
admin(26751):     CONTENT_LENGTH: 38
admin(26751):     HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
rv:31.0) Gecko/
20100101 Firefox/31.0 Iceweasel/31.2.0
admin(26751):     HTTP_CONNECTION: close
admin(26751):     SERVER_NAME: servername
admin(26751):     REMOTE_ADDR: 192.168.100.3
admin(26751):     PATH_TRANSLATED: /etc/apache2/htdocs/listname/
admin(26751):     SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(26751):     SERVER_ADDR: 192.168.100.4
admin(26751):     DOCUMENT_ROOT: /etc/apache2/htdocs
admin(26751):     PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
admin(26751):     SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admin
admin(26751):     SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at localhost
admin(26751):     HTTP_HOST: servername
admin(26751):     REQUEST_URI: /admin/listname/
admin(26751):     HTTP_ACCEPT:
text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0
.9,*/*;q=0.8
admin(26751):     GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(26751):     HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
admin(26751):     REMOTE_PORT: 59331
admin(26751):     HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: ca,en-us;q=0.7,en;q=0.3
admin(26751):     CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
admin(26751):     HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate



From eravin at panix.com  Tue Nov 25 03:55:51 2014
From: eravin at panix.com (Ed Ravin)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:55:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OS X Question --- yes I know <sigh>
In-Reply-To: <61560BCD-24F3-4394-9BC3-C968C31443EB@mac.com>
References: <61560BCD-24F3-4394-9BC3-C968C31443EB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20141125025551.GA10929@panix.com>

On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 04:54:09PM -0700, David Dodell wrote:
> Hi, I know from past experience that the OS X version of Mailman is met with some contempt because of what Apple did with it .. but I have it working well for several years on a 10.7.5 Lion Server, and it has been very stable.

Note that there's also a version from MacPorts:

$ port list mailman
mailman                        @2.1.13         mail/mailman

[this is on my Mountain Lion box, your mileage may vary]

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 25 04:25:14 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 19:25:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError accessing into web admin
	interface
In-Reply-To: <5473D823.6000507@musaik.net>
References: <54731F27.7010309@musaik.net> <547390C9.8080408@msapiro.net>
 <5473D823.6000507@musaik.net>
Message-ID: <5473F69A.7000009@msapiro.net>

On 11/24/2014 05:15 PM, Ferriol wrote:
> 
> El 24/11/14 a les 21:10, Mark Sapiro ha escrit:
>>
>> This is probably an English language list so it's Mailman character set
>> is us-ascii, and there is something (?) that has non-ascii, probably
>> utf-8 because 0xc3 is a utf-8 leadin, encoded text.
>>
>> Finding exactly what is problematic.
>>
>> The additional Python and environment information from the above error
>> log entry may help.
> This is not an English list but uses a latin alphabet is in Catalan that
> uses tittles and is latin_1 encoding


Is the lists' preferred_language Catalan or English (USA)?

If it is Catalan, the web UI and all the i18n strings should be utf-8
encoded and you shouldn't be seeing this issue.

Or are you saying that the lists preferred_language is English (USA),
but you are entering latin_1 encoded text in the various fields in the
web UI or via config_list?

In any case, we shouldn't be throwing exceptions, even if you are
entering non-ascii in an English list. I'll look into this further.


> Some full log entries below


OK.


>> And the full traceback from this may help too.
> $  config_list -o config listname
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/sbin/config_list", line 362, in <module>
>     main()
>   File "/usr/sbin/config_list", line 355, in main
>     do_output(listname, outfile)
>   File "/usr/sbin/config_list", line 128, in do_output
>     do_list_categories(mlist, k, None, outfp)
>   File "/usr/sbin/config_list", line 198, in do_list_categories
>     outfp.write(NL.join(lines).replace('"', '\\"'))
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xe9' in
> position 9: ordinal not in range(128)


Unfortunately, that doesn't help too much, but thanks anyway.


>> Also, does this occur with all lists or only one?
> In 4 lists. In one on General options, topics and non-digest options,
> other one general options and non-digest options and the other two only
> in general options. May be has the same information in some value...
>>         output = unicode(output, errors='replace')
>>         for i in range(len(self.cells[row])):
>>             output = output + unicode(
>>                 self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2), errors='replace')
>>         output = output.encode(errors='replace')
>>
> I tried this and doesn't work, this is the log entry:
...
> admin(27848):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 192,
> in FormatRow
> admin(27848):     output = output.encode(errors='replace')
> admin(27848): TypeError: encode() takes no keyword arguments


Sorry about that. The keyword argument errors='replace' requires Python
2.7. Anyway, you got the information another way.


>> Alternatively, you could replace the above two lines with
>>
>>         from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
>>         try:
>>             for i in range(len(self.cells[row])):
>>                 output = output + self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2)
>>         except UnicodeDecodeError:
>>             syslog('error', 'UnicodeDecodeError: %s', output)
>>
>> which should result in the problem bit being omitted from the page, and
>> Mailman's error log containing the html for the part of the page leading
>> up to the problem.
> 
> This works perfect, with this I can find all values with rare characters.


OK. good.


> I'm reseting this values with config_list. I prepare a file with
> value='' p.ex.
> # -*- python -*-
> # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
> info=''
> welcome_msg=''
> msg_footer=''
> topics=''
> 
> and then I do config_list -i file listname
> 
> 
> Thanks, I solved the problem with your help ! Thanks for your work !


Thanks for the info you provided, and I'm glad you were able to find the
problem strings.

I will look into making Mailman behave more gracefully in cases like this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dunkel at calamus.net  Wed Nov 26 09:52:20 2014
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 09:52:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You gave the wrong password - how to solve this?
In-Reply-To: <54585A4E.4040107@msapiro.net>
References: <54576CE1.7090409@calamus.net> <54585A4E.4040107@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <547594C4.1000304@calamus.net>

>> When my script sends an unsubscribe email to the relevant list, it has
>> this general format:
>>
>> ----- snip -----
>> From: <my-mailinglist-admin-email-address>
>> To: <mailinglist>-request at lists.<mydomain>.net
>> Ref: unsubscribe <myadminpassword> address=<user-email-address>
>> ----- snap -----
>>
>> What am I doing wrong? Is it possible that there is a conflict between
>> the <myadminpassword> and a maybe user-defined <userpassword> when I try
>> to unsubscribe the user with my <myadminpassword>?
> 
> 
> Exactly. The password in the email unsubscribe command is the user's
> list password, not the list admin password.
> 
> If you want to unsubscribe a user without confirmation and with
> authentication via the list admin password, you have to use the web
> interface. See the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/Z4A9> and
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9>.

So there is NO way to unsubscribe a user via email?
Why then does "subscribe" work fine with <myadminpassword>?

Best, Ulf

From addw at phcomp.co.uk  Wed Nov 26 10:35:21 2014
From: addw at phcomp.co.uk (Alain Williams)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 09:35:21 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to set up equivalent domains
In-Reply-To: <54728489.20308@msapiro.net>
References: <20141123182016.GT7518@phcomp.co.uk> <54728489.20308@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20141126093521.GB24867@phcomp.co.uk>

On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 05:06:17PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 10:20 AM, Alain Williams wrote:

> Mailman will do its part just fine. To be squeeky clean, assume the
> list's host_name (near the bottom of the General Options page) is
> domain_1.org. You need to ensure that either Privacy options... ->
> Recipient filters -> require_explicit_destination is No or that
> chat at domain_2.org is included in acceptable_aliases to avoid posts to
> chat at domain_2.org being held for 'Implicit Destination'.
> 
> Actually, it is deprecated and shouldn't be relied on, but as long as
> the list name (chat) matches, you won't get an 'Implicit Destination'
> hold even if require_explicit_destination is Yes.

Many thanks for your reply - that works well.

Regards

-- 
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256  http://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers Ltd. Registration Information: http://www.phcomp.co.uk/contact.php
#include <std_disclaimer.h>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Nov 26 13:57:20 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 21:57:20 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You gave the wrong password - how to solve this?
In-Reply-To: <547594C4.1000304@calamus.net>
References: <54576CE1.7090409@calamus.net> <54585A4E.4040107@msapiro.net>
 <547594C4.1000304@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <87lhmyqfv3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Ulf Dunkel writes:

 > Why then does "subscribe" work fine with <myadminpassword>?

Perhaps because subscription doesn't require a password at all?

From dunkel at calamus.net  Wed Nov 26 14:50:34 2014
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 14:50:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You gave the wrong password - how to solve this?
In-Reply-To: <87lhmyqfv3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <54576CE1.7090409@calamus.net>	<54585A4E.4040107@msapiro.net>	<547594C4.1000304@calamus.net>
 <87lhmyqfv3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <5475DAAA.5000907@calamus.net>

>  > Why then does "subscribe" work fine with <myadminpassword>?
> 
> Perhaps because subscription doesn't require a password at all?

Thank you, Stephen, for this hint. Makes sense. :-)


I have now adjusted my stuff that way, that my server sends me myself an
email with the desired link, e.g.

<http://<mydomain>/mailman/admin/<listname>/members/remove?send_unsub_ack_to_this_batch=1&send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner=0&unsubscribees_upload=<user_email>&adminpw=<adminpassword>>

This works fine for me, but - I don't like to send passwords via email
to my normal user mail account.

When I try

<http://<mydomain>/mailman/admin/<listname>/members/remove?send_unsub_ack_to_this_batch=1&send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner=0&unsubscribees_upload=<user_email>>

instead (without the adminpw stuff), I get this funny error on the webpage:

----- snip -----
Error: The form lifetime has expired. (request forgery check)
----- snap -----

Is there any chance to proceed with URLs like the one above and using
the web interface with the need to enter the admin password in the browser?

Thank you in advance.

---Ulf Dunkel

From paul at nangoku-jiyu-jin.net  Wed Nov 26 13:38:26 2014
From: paul at nangoku-jiyu-jin.net (paul at nangoku-jiyu-jin.net)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 21:38:26 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] banning not consistent
Message-ID: <58252BEF-AFD3-48DD-A0DC-DA21C835E6CF@nangoku-jiyu-jin.net>

I have a list on mailman. recently two messages from non members came.

BUT only one of those messages comes with the following option:


Ban urxwwksbh at yahoo.com from ever subscribing to this mailing list

The other message doesn?t come with that option.


Both messages come with

Action to take on all these held messages:
   Defer   	   Accept   	   Reject   	   Discard   




 Preserve messages for the site administrator
 Forward messages (individually) to:

 Add larry at coldriversoapworks.com to one of these sender filters:
   Accepts   	   Holds   	   Rejects   	   Discards   







Can anyone explain why i do not get the ban option with both.

Also, is there a way to ban people other than in Administrative tasks?

Thank you!

Paul Arenson
TokyoProgressive






From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Nov 26 16:58:24 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 00:58:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You gave the wrong password - how to solve this?
In-Reply-To: <5475DAAA.5000907@calamus.net>
References: <54576CE1.7090409@calamus.net> <54585A4E.4040107@msapiro.net>
 <547594C4.1000304@calamus.net>
 <87lhmyqfv3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <5475DAAA.5000907@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <87k32iq7hb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Ulf Dunkel writes:

 > When I try
 > 
 > <http://<mydomain>/mailman/admin/<listname>/members/remove?send_unsub_ack_to_this_batch=1&send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner=0&unsubscribees_upload=<user_email>>
 > 
 > instead (without the adminpw stuff), I get this funny error on the webpage:
 > 
 > ----- snip -----
 > Error: The form lifetime has expired. (request forgery check)
 > ----- snap -----

That is odd.

 > Is there any chance to proceed with URLs like the one above and using
 > the web interface with the need to enter the admin password in the browser?

I would think it would work as you expect.  I suspect the problem has
something to do with what is called "cross-site request forgery"
(CSRF).  The technique for combatting that requires that you *start*
by entering the appropriate page, which provides a digitally signed
one-time authorization token, which expires after a fairly short
period.  You then send the token back when you fill in the form, thus
proving that you've followed the correct procedure.  I suspect absence
of a token is being treated the same as an expired token.  I hope it's
a bug and can be fixed, but I don't know much about that part.

Hopefully Mark has an answer to this one.

From jon.1234 at hotmail.co.uk  Wed Nov 26 17:05:52 2014
From: jon.1234 at hotmail.co.uk (Jon 1234)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 16:05:52 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading and using with multiple domains
Message-ID: <DUB122-W4E0CBBBAAF22BAF0FD4D3D3700@phx.gbl>

I currently have Mailman 2.1.14 installed in the website directory of a.com
I would like to:
1. Upgrade it to 2.1.18-1.2. Have it outside the website directory.3. Use it not only for a.com but also b.com (I will not need to have the same list names for both domains).
If I were to install from scratch outside the websites' directories, I imagine it would be simple enough to get it to work for b.com. 
But what would I need to do to get the a.com mailing list to start using the new Mailman installation? (Would I just be able to move certain files across to reproduce the archive, etc?)
I am sorry for asking such a basic question, and would be happy to be directed to the right FAQs on the subject(s).
Best wishes and thanks
Jon 		 	   		  

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 26 17:20:47 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:20:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You gave the wrong password - how to solve this?
In-Reply-To: <547594C4.1000304@calamus.net>
References: <54576CE1.7090409@calamus.net> <54585A4E.4040107@msapiro.net>
 <547594C4.1000304@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <5475FDDF.70309@msapiro.net>

On 11/26/2014 12:52 AM, Ulf Dunkel wrote:
> 
> So there is NO way to unsubscribe a user via email?


There is no way to unsubscribe a user via email without providing the
user's list password or without confirmation from the user or a list
admin/moderator depending on the list's unsubscribe_policy setting.


> Why then does "subscribe" work fine with <myadminpassword>?


Because the password provided with the email subscribe command is the
user password to assign to this member. If you have done this, you have
exposed the list admin password to everyone you subscribed this way in
their list welcome message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 27 05:43:34 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 20:43:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] banning not consistent
In-Reply-To: <58252BEF-AFD3-48DD-A0DC-DA21C835E6CF@nangoku-jiyu-jin.net>
References: <58252BEF-AFD3-48DD-A0DC-DA21C835E6CF@nangoku-jiyu-jin.net>
Message-ID: <5476ABF6.5050907@msapiro.net>

On 11/26/2014 04:38 AM, paul at nangoku-jiyu-jin.net wrote:
> I have a list on mailman. recently two messages from non members came.
> 
> BUT only one of those messages comes with the following option:
> 
> 
> Ban urxwwksbh at yahoo.com from ever subscribing to this mailing list
> 
> The other message doesn?t come with that option.
...
> Can anyone explain why i do not get the ban option with both.


Perhaps the other address is already banned.


> Also, is there a way to ban people other than in Administrative tasks?


In the web admin interface, Privacy options... -> Subscription rules ->
ban_list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 27 06:01:36 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 21:01:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading and using with multiple domains
In-Reply-To: <DUB122-W4E0CBBBAAF22BAF0FD4D3D3700@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB122-W4E0CBBBAAF22BAF0FD4D3D3700@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5476B030.6020405@msapiro.net>

On 11/26/2014 08:05 AM, Jon 1234 wrote:
> I currently have Mailman 2.1.14 installed in the website directory of a.com


What does this mean? Normally, Mailman is installed in it's own
directory or directories which are not in the space served by default by
the web server. Then Mailman's CGI wrappers are pointed to in the web
server config (in Apache, via ScriptAlias), and Mailman's public
archives are pointed to via an Alias or similar.

What exactly is the situation in your case?


> I would like to:
> 1. Upgrade it to 2.1.18-1.

OK


2. Have it outside the website directory.


Again, what does this mean?


3. Use it not only for a.com but also b.com (I will not need to have the
same list names for both domains).


Not a problem.


> If I were to install from scratch outside the websites' directories, I imagine it would be simple enough to get it to work for b.com. 
> But what would I need to do to get the a.com mailing list to start using the new Mailman installation?


Change the ScriptAlias and Alias or whatever they are in the web server
config to point to the correct place. Change the aliases or whatever is
used by the MTA that delivers a.com's mail to Mailman to deliver by
piping to the right wrapper.


> (Would I just be able to move certain files across to reproduce the archive, etc?)


Yes., but I don't see why it would be necessary to install the upgraded
mailman in a different place. Just put an appropriate

add_virtualhost('b.com', 'b.com')

directive in mm_cfg.py and configure your web server and MTA for the
additional virtual host.


> I am sorry for asking such a basic question, and would be happy to be directed to the right FAQs on the subject(s).


You might start with the installation manual at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 27 06:28:03 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 21:28:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You gave the wrong password - how to solve this?
In-Reply-To: <5475DAAA.5000907@calamus.net>
References: <54576CE1.7090409@calamus.net>	<54585A4E.4040107@msapiro.net>	<547594C4.1000304@calamus.net>
 <87lhmyqfv3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <5475DAAA.5000907@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <5476B663.6020600@msapiro.net>

On 11/26/2014 05:50 AM, Ulf Dunkel wrote:

> I have now adjusted my stuff that way, that my server sends me myself an
> email with the desired link, e.g.
> 
> <http://<mydomain>/mailman/admin/<listname>/members/remove?send_unsub_ack_to_this_batch=1&send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner=0&unsubscribees_upload=<user_email>&adminpw=<adminpassword>>
> 
> This works fine for me, but - I don't like to send passwords via email
> to my normal user mail account.


So why don't you just have your server do a wget or curl to get that URL
instead of mailing it to you, or is mailing it to you some kind of
confirmation step?


> When I try
> 
> <http://<mydomain>/mailman/admin/<listname>/members/remove?send_unsub_ack_to_this_batch=1&send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner=0&unsubscribees_upload=<user_email>>
> 
> instead (without the adminpw stuff), I get this funny error on the webpage:
> 
> ----- snip -----
> Error: The form lifetime has expired. (request forgery check)
> ----- snap -----


As Stephen says, that's CSRF protection. See the documentation of
FORM_LIFETIME, SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET and SUBSCRIBE_FORM_MIN_TIME in
Defaults.py


> Is there any chance to proceed with URLs like the one above and using
> the web interface with the need to enter the admin password in the browser?


I *think* it will work if you 'Logout' of the admin interface and then
go to the unsubscribe URL. This will get the login page and when you log
in, the unsubscribe will be processed.

Or, you can disable the CSRF protection by removing the setting for
SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET from mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 27 07:43:18 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 22:43:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError accessing into web admin
	interface
In-Reply-To: <5473F69A.7000009@msapiro.net>
References: <54731F27.7010309@musaik.net> <547390C9.8080408@msapiro.net>
 <5473D823.6000507@musaik.net> <5473F69A.7000009@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5476C806.7030204@msapiro.net>

On 11/24/2014 07:25 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/24/2014 05:15 PM, Ferriol wrote:
> 
>> I'm reseting this values with config_list. I prepare a file with
>> value='' p.ex.
>> # -*- python -*-
>> # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
>> info=''
>> welcome_msg=''
>> msg_footer=''
>> topics=''
>>
>> and then I do config_list -i file listname
>>
>>
>> Thanks, I solved the problem with your help ! Thanks for your work !
> 
> ..............................................................
> Thanks for the info you provided, and I'm glad you were able to find the
> problem strings.
> 
> I will look into making Mailman behave more gracefully in cases like this.


I have been unsuccessful in my attempts to duplicate this exception. Can
you tell me exactly what strings caused this problem and how you set
them in Mailman?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dunkel at calamus.net  Thu Nov 27 09:49:56 2014
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:49:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You gave the wrong password - how to solve this?
In-Reply-To: <5475FDDF.70309@msapiro.net>
References: <54576CE1.7090409@calamus.net> <54585A4E.4040107@msapiro.net>
 <547594C4.1000304@calamus.net> <5475FDDF.70309@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5476E5B4.1090603@calamus.net>

Hi Mark.

>> Why then does "subscribe" work fine with <myadminpassword>?
> 
> Because the password provided with the email subscribe command is the
> user password to assign to this member. If you have done this, you have
> exposed the list admin password to everyone you subscribed this way in
> their list welcome message.

I did not, for heaven's sake. :-)

From dunkel at calamus.net  Thu Nov 27 10:39:16 2014
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 10:39:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You gave the wrong password - how to solve this?
In-Reply-To: <5476B663.6020600@msapiro.net>
References: <54576CE1.7090409@calamus.net>	<54585A4E.4040107@msapiro.net>	<547594C4.1000304@calamus.net>
 <87lhmyqfv3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <5475DAAA.5000907@calamus.net>
 <5476B663.6020600@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5476F144.6060106@calamus.net>

Hi Mark.

>> This works fine for me, but - I don't like to send passwords via email
>> to my normal user mail account.
> 
> So why don't you just have your server do a wget or curl to get that URL
> instead of mailing it to you, or is mailing it to you some kind of
> confirmation step?

Thank you for pushing me into the right direction. I was too much fixed
on subscription handling via email. This Console command does what I want:

wget -q
"http://<myserver>/mailman/admin/<listname>/members/remove?send_unsub_ack_to_this_batch=1&send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner=1&unsubscribees_upload=<useremail>&adminpw=<adminpw>"

This is the PHP command I now use:

	$return = exec("wget -q \"$body\"", $output);

Thank you again.

---Ulf Dunkel

From jon.1234 at hotmail.co.uk  Thu Nov 27 11:39:59 2014
From: jon.1234 at hotmail.co.uk (Jon 1234)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 10:39:59 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading and using with multiple domains
In-Reply-To: <5476B030.6020405@msapiro.net>
References: <DUB122-W4E0CBBBAAF22BAF0FD4D3D3700@phx.gbl>,
 <5476B030.6020405@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <DUB122-W5021BCDA0E4CFBDF9A8339D3710@phx.gbl>

> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 21:01:36 -0800
> From: mark at msapiro.net
> 
>> I currently have Mailman 2.1.14 installed in the website directory of a.com
> 
> 
> What does this mean? Normally, Mailman is installed in it's own
> directory or directories which are not in the space served by default by
> the web server. Then Mailman's CGI wrappers are pointed to in the web
> server config (in Apache, via ScriptAlias), and Mailman's public
> archives are pointed to via an Alias or similar.
> 
> What exactly is the situation in your case?

At the very beginning I wrongly installed the files in a.com/mailman 

So the aliases are:

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /path/a_com/mailman/cgi-bin/
Alias /pipermail/ /path/a_com/archives/public/

It works fine but I know this is not ideal. So I want to install Mailman where it should be: at /path instead of /path/a_com

>> I would like to:
>> 1. Upgrade it to 2.1.18-1.
> 
> OK
> 
> 
> 2. Have it outside the website directory.
> 
> 
> Again, what does this mean?

See above.

> 3. Use it not only for a.com but also b.com (I will not need to have the
> same list names for both domains).
> 
> 
> Not a problem.

Cheers.

>> If I were to install from scratch outside the websites' directories, I imagine it would be simple enough to get it to work for b.com. 
>> But what would I need to do to get the a.com mailing list to start using the new Mailman installation?
> 
> 
> Change the ScriptAlias and Alias or whatever they are in the web server
> config to point to the correct place. Change the aliases or whatever is
> used by the MTA that delivers a.com's mail to Mailman to deliver by
> piping to the right wrapper.

Fortunately this is what I did. Last night I typed up the necessary changes (mostly removing a_com/ from everything). The hosting company need to make the changes so I don't know yet if it works.

>> (Would I just be able to move certain files across to reproduce the archive, etc?)
> 
> 
> Yes., but I don't see why it would be necessary to install the upgraded
> mailman in a different place. Just put an appropriate
> 
> add_virtualhost('b.com', 'b.com')
> 
> directive in mm_cfg.py and configure your web server and MTA for the
> additional virtual host.

Again, this is what I did for b.com:

add_virtualhost('www.b.com', 'b.com')

and I am waiting to see if it works once the hosting company implement the changes.

But seeing as I *do* now have two Mailman installations currently, I copied across the following directories from /path/a_com/mailman to /path/mailman

lists,
data,
archives

I've asked the hosting company to run bin/mailmanctl stop on the existing installation before making the changes.

I've added a .htaccess file to block web access for now in the a_com/mailman directory, just to cover the changeover.

Is there anything else I ought to do? 

Will having installed Mailman twice have caused any confusion/conflicts in how the two installations work? 

The only change I made to the standard installation was to make "mailman2" the site-wide list and add this to mm_cfg.py:

MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman2'

To be honest, I'm not even sure that was necessary. Could I just have copied across the "mailman" files (as above) and not created the "mailman2" list? (Since, once the new installation works, I'll just delete the old one anyway.)

>> I am sorry for asking such a basic question, and would be happy to be directed to the right FAQs on the subject(s).
> 
> 
> You might start with the installation manual at
> .

Thank you very much. The installation manual is great. As a relative beginner, I find the mailing list to be an excellent resource too. I really appreciate all your work in explaining the software to everyone.

 		 	   		  

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 27 21:06:46 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 12:06:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading and using with multiple domains
In-Reply-To: <DUB122-W5021BCDA0E4CFBDF9A8339D3710@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB122-W4E0CBBBAAF22BAF0FD4D3D3700@phx.gbl>,
 <5476B030.6020405@msapiro.net>
 <DUB122-W5021BCDA0E4CFBDF9A8339D3710@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <54778456.5090503@msapiro.net>

On 11/27/2014 02:39 AM, Jon 1234 wrote:
>> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 21:01:36 -0800
>> From: mark at msapiro.net
...
>>
>> What exactly is the situation in your case?
> 
> At the very beginning I wrongly installed the files in a.com/mailman 
> 
> So the aliases are:
> 
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /path/a_com/mailman/cgi-bin/
> Alias /pipermail/ /path/a_com/archives/public/
> 
> It works fine but I know this is not ideal. So I want to install Mailman where it should be: at /path instead of /path/a_com


OK


>> Change the ScriptAlias and Alias or whatever they are in the web server
>> config to point to the correct place. Change the aliases or whatever is
>> used by the MTA that delivers a.com's mail to Mailman to deliver by
>> piping to the right wrapper.
> 
> Fortunately this is what I did. Last night I typed up the necessary changes (mostly removing a_com/ from everything). The hosting company need to make the changes so I don't know yet if it works.
...
>> add_virtualhost('b.com', 'b.com')
>>
>> directive in mm_cfg.py and configure your web server and MTA for the
>> additional virtual host.
> 
> Again, this is what I did for b.com:
> 
> add_virtualhost('www.b.com', 'b.com')
> 
> and I am waiting to see if it works once the hosting company implement the changes.


OK


> But seeing as I *do* now have two Mailman installations currently, I copied across the following directories from /path/a_com/mailman to /path/mailman
> 
> lists,
> data,
> archives


OK


> I've asked the hosting company to run bin/mailmanctl stop on the existing installation before making the changes.
> 
> I've added a .htaccess file to block web access for now in the a_com/mailman directory, just to cover the changeover.
> 
> Is there anything else I ought to do? 


Yes. Completely uninstall the a.com/mailman instance including any cron
jobs that run a.com/mailman/cron.* scripts.


> Will having installed Mailman twice have caused any confusion/conflicts in how the two installations work? 


Yes. You will get password reminders and moderator request waiting
messages sent from the old installation. See, e.g., the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/EoCE>.


> The only change I made to the standard installation was to make "mailman2" the site-wide list and add this to mm_cfg.py:
> 
> MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman2'
> 
> To be honest, I'm not even sure that was necessary. Could I just have copied across the "mailman" files (as above) and not created the "mailman2" list? (Since, once the new installation works, I'll just delete the old one anyway.)


Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 28 05:46:05 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 20:46:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError accessing into web admin
	interface
In-Reply-To: <5476C806.7030204@msapiro.net>
References: <54731F27.7010309@musaik.net> <547390C9.8080408@msapiro.net>
 <5473D823.6000507@musaik.net> <5473F69A.7000009@msapiro.net>
 <5476C806.7030204@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5477FE0D.4040506@msapiro.net>

On 11/26/2014 10:43 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> I have been unsuccessful in my attempts to duplicate this exception. Can
> you tell me exactly what strings caused this problem and how you set
> them in Mailman?


With the kind assistance of the OP who provided me with problem
config.pck files, I have determined that the exception is thrown when
certain text values are unicodes instead of strings.

This is reported at <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1397170>.

The fix is at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1505>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jacques at lavignotte.org  Fri Nov 28 14:29:17 2014
From: jacques at lavignotte.org (Jacques Lav!gnotte.)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 14:29:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seting-up pipermail archiver
Message-ID: <547878AD.1070508@lavignotte.org>

Hello,


I am a MMan site admin for years and never had to cope with pipermail
archives.

Now a list owner asks me to activate archiver for one list.

List parameters shows archiving is activated but when I try to visit
the archive I get :

The requested URL /pipermail/sys-admin/ was not found on this server.


I am probably missing some important thing :(

Can anyone point me to the right documentation.

Thanks,

Jacques

-- 
GnuPg : C8F5B1E3 WeUsePGP Because privacy matters http://weusepgp.info/

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 28 18:44:07 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:44:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seting-up pipermail archiver
In-Reply-To: <547878AD.1070508@lavignotte.org>
References: <547878AD.1070508@lavignotte.org>
Message-ID: <5478B467.5050700@msapiro.net>

On 11/28/2014 05:29 AM, Jacques Lav!gnotte. wrote:
> 
> List parameters shows archiving is activated but when I try to visit
> the archive I get :
> 
> The requested URL /pipermail/sys-admin/ was not found on this server.
> 
> 
> I am probably missing some important thing :(
> 
> Can anyone point me to the right documentation.


<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html>

Are you missing the 'Alias /pipermail/' from your web server config?

Also, you may need to see <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From her at adm.ku.dk  Fri Nov 28 13:16:17 2014
From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 12:16:17 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom contact address, not site admin
Message-ID: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713D0101A3B64F@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain>

I found this, so it seems that there is no single way to change the site admin contact address, as messages seems to be associate with the list admin, according to the %(owneraddr)s in the bounce.txt

[2] https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2012-September/074141.html

Henrik Rasmussen

Fra: Henrik Rasmussen
Sendt: 28. november 2014 12:55
Til: mailman-users at python.org
Emne: Custom contact address, not site admin

Some standard mails from Mailman, like "bounce action notice", urges the user to contact the Mailman site-list address*). While I still want system mails, meant for the site admin, to go to the site admin address, I would like to customize the contact address displayed in mails and on the web GUI, to show our helpdesk e-mail address instead.

Normally I would edit the file /usr/lib/mailman/messages/uk/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po and run /usr/lib/mailman/bin/msgfmt.py /usr/lib/mailman/messages/da/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po, but not all messages can be customized this way.

What is the best way to customize the site admin contact address in each e-mail and web-gui page, to display our helpdesk contact address?

*) Example of standard mail from Mailman: "Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at mailman at list.example.com<mailto:mailman at list.example.com>."

Henrik Rasmussen

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov 29 02:32:11 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 17:32:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom contact address, not site admin
In-Reply-To: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713D0101A3B64F@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain>
References: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713D0101A3B64F@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain>
Message-ID: <5479221B.5090708@msapiro.net>

On 11/28/2014 04:16 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote:
> I found this, so it seems that there is no single way to change the site admin contact address, as messages seems to be associate with the list admin, according to the %(owneraddr)s in the bounce.txt


The %(owneraddr)s in templates/LC/bounce.txt is replaced by the site
email, not the list owner email.


> Some standard mails from Mailman, like "bounce action notice", urges the user to contact the Mailman site-list address*). While I still want system mails, meant for the site admin, to go to the site admin address, I would like to customize the contact address displayed in mails and on the web GUI, to show our helpdesk e-mail address instead.


If you really want it to display the helpdesk address, see below, but
the normal way to do this is to ensure that the site list (mailman at host)
accepts non-member posts and make the helpdesk a member of that list.


> Normally I would edit the file /usr/lib/mailman/messages/uk/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po and run /usr/lib/mailman/bin/msgfmt.py /usr/lib/mailman/messages/da/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po, but not all messages can be customized this way.


Those that aren't strings in the message catalog are in templates. E.g.,
the string "Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
mailman at list.example.com." comes from (in English) the text

Questions?
Contact the Mailman site administrator at %(owneraddr)s.

in templates/en/bounce.txt. You could edit these templates for the
language(s) of interest and just replace %(owneraddr)s with the literal
address you want. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9> for where
to put edited templates so they survive upgrades.


> What is the best way to customize the site admin contact address in each e-mail and web-gui page, to display our helpdesk contact address?


You can change it everywhere including the admin and listinfo overview
pages by editing the get_site_email() function in Mailman/Utils.py.

This definition is

def get_site_email(hostname=None, extra=None):
    if hostname is None:
        hostname = mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOSTS.get(get_domain(), get_domain())
    if extra is None:
        return '%s@%s' % (mm_cfg.MAILMAN_SITE_LIST, hostname)
    return '%s-%s@%s' % (mm_cfg.MAILMAN_SITE_LIST, extra, hostname)

You would probably want to change only the second line of

    if extra is None:
        return '%s@%s' % (mm_cfg.MAILMAN_SITE_LIST, hostname)

to something like

    if extra is None:
        return 'helpdesk at example.com'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From matt.moore at okfn.org  Fri Nov 28 16:24:08 2014
From: matt.moore at okfn.org (Matt Moore)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 15:24:08 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15 translations not quite right
Message-ID: <CAAzXgi-mcqDhKQ4=B5gzJjX9vUyi8bJ29RbDq4fcEGpTfkNveg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I run a mailman system for a number of mailing lists.  Recently I've
noticed that a number of our pages aren't fully translated, when I think
they probably should be.  The server is a Debian 7.2 (wheezy) server and
Mailman is 2.1.15.  Python is 2.7.3, if that's of any use.   There's
nothing obvious in the 'error' log in /var/log/mailman.  Any other logs I
could check?

As an example:

https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/cienciaaberta

You can see that the top is in English and the bottom is in Portugese
(Brazilian).

Can anyone give me any useful pointers as to what can be done to fix?  My
google-fu has rather failed me on this one.

Thanks,

Matt

-- 
Matthew Moore
Sysadmin
Open Knowledge - www.okfn.org
Skype - notmatt

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov 29 02:49:50 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 17:49:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15 translations not quite right
In-Reply-To: <CAAzXgi-mcqDhKQ4=B5gzJjX9vUyi8bJ29RbDq4fcEGpTfkNveg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAzXgi-mcqDhKQ4=B5gzJjX9vUyi8bJ29RbDq4fcEGpTfkNveg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5479263E.2010902@msapiro.net>

On 11/28/2014 07:24 AM, Matt Moore wrote:
> 
> As an example:
> 
> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/cienciaaberta
> 
> You can see that the top is in English and the bottom is in Portugese
> (Brazilian).
> 
> Can anyone give me any useful pointers as to what can be done to fix?  My
> google-fu has rather failed me on this one.


I can't speak to anything other than the listinfo page in your example,
but someone has edited that template, possibly by the Edit the public
HTML pages and text files -> General list information page link in the
web list admin interface or possibly by using the info in the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9>. The default pt_BR template looks fully
translated to me.

You won't find anything logged about badly translated templates or
missing or incorrect translations in message catalogs. Mailman just
takes what's there and assumes that's what's wanted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From her at adm.ku.dk  Fri Nov 28 12:54:46 2014
From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 11:54:46 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom contact address, not site admin
Message-ID: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713D0101A3B584@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain>

Some standard mails from Mailman, like "bounce action notice", urges the user to contact the Mailman site-list address*). While I still want system mails, meant for the site admin, to go to the site admin address, I would like to customize the contact address displayed in mails and on the web GUI, to show our helpdesk e-mail address instead.

Normally I would edit the file /usr/lib/mailman/messages/uk/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po and run /usr/lib/mailman/bin/msgfmt.py /usr/lib/mailman/messages/da/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po, but not all messages can be customized this way.

What is the best way to customize the site admin contact address in each e-mail and web-gui page, to display our helpdesk contact address?

*) Example of standard mail from Mailman: "Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at mailman at list.example.com<mailto:mailman at list.example.com>."

Henrik Rasmussen

From bruinen at arcor.de  Sun Nov 30 23:07:01 2014
From: bruinen at arcor.de (Bruinen)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 23:07:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15 translations not quite right
In-Reply-To: <5479263E.2010902@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAzXgi-mcqDhKQ4=B5gzJjX9vUyi8bJ29RbDq4fcEGpTfkNveg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5479263E.2010902@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <547B9505.2000400@arcor.de>



On 11/29/2014 02:49 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/28/2014 07:24 AM, Matt Moore wrote:
>>
>> As an example:
>>
>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/cienciaaberta
>>
>> You can see that the top is in English and the bottom is in Portugese
>> (Brazilian).
<snipped>
> 
> 
> I can't speak to anything other than the listinfo page in your example,
> but someone has edited that template, possibly by the Edit the public
> HTML pages and text files -> General list information page link in the
> web list admin interface or possibly by using the info in the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9>. The default pt_BR template looks fully
> translated to me.

I have a similar problem, same configuration (Debian 7.7, Mailman
2.1.15). My mailing lists are all set to German, but in some of the
configuration sites (e.g. bounce handling) most parts are in German,
some in English.

BR
Marco