From gkasica at netwrx1.com Fri Aug 1 09:45:09 2014 From: gkasica at netwrx1.com (George Kasica) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 07:45:09 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any way to globally search and/or remove a user Message-ID: Curious here about the following: Is there any way or utility for Mailman that will allow me to search ALL the mailing lists on the server for a given user email and then remove that email address? I don't care about sending out a nice email to them - these are SPAM passing emails that have gotten added and I just want them gone...it's not a huge number maybe 2 dozen, but when you spread that over say 8 lists and 2 servers the workload adds up to do it manually. In a perfect solution I could feed it a list of addresses in a flat file and let it go, if I have to build one line at a time that's not so bad either, but pointing and clicking it ugly and time consuming. Conversely there probably is a bounce setting that I could be using to let it drop them after say 1or 2 bounces, but that kills off anyone with even a transient mail server issue so I'd rather go the manual route above. Thanks, George --- ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 414 732 8503 gkasica at netwrx1.com +1 206 374 6482 FAX http://www.netwrx1.com/ Jackson, WI USA ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' From gkasica at netwrx1.com Fri Aug 1 14:00:12 2014 From: gkasica at netwrx1.com (George Kasica) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 12:00:12 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any way to globally search and/or remove a user In-Reply-To: <53DB79D5.4010400@uni-konstanz.de> References: <53DB79D5.4010400@uni-konstanz.de> Message-ID: <7319e2d836054972b3ed1f0649139a99@BL2PR05MB177.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Thanks! Exactly what I needed. You just saved me HOURS of work. George -----Original Message----- From: Mailman Admin [mailto:mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de] Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 6:28 AM To: George Kasica Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Any way to globally search and/or remove a user Hello George Kasica Am 2014-08-01 09:45, schrieb George Kasica: > Curious here about the following: > > Is there any way or utility for Mailman that will allow me to search > ALL the mailing lists on the server for a given user email and then > remove that email address? > > I don't care about sending out a nice > email to them - these are SPAM passing emails that have gotten added > and I just want them gone...it's not a huge number maybe 2 dozen, but > when you spread that over say 8 lists and 2 servers the workload adds > up to do it manually. In a perfect solution I could feed it a list of > addresses in a flat file and let it go, if I have to build one line at > a time that's not so bad either, but pointing and clicking it ugly and > time consuming. Conversely there probably is a bounce setting that I > could be using to let it drop them after say 1or 2 bounces, but that > kills off anyone with even a transient mail server issue so I'd rather > go the manual route above. > On the command line you can use bin/remove_members for that. You can feed it with a file with one email address per line. For more infos see bin/remove_members -h Kind regards, Christian Mack From peter.brooks at kchclinics.com Fri Aug 1 18:11:47 2014 From: peter.brooks at kchclinics.com (Peter Brooks) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 18:11:47 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password reminders Message-ID: The installation of mailman that I'm using has the monthly sending of password reminders as the default setting. This led to some discussion with members of one of my mailman lists. It seems very odd that mailman sends clear-text passwords through e-mail. The use of one-way hashing passwords has been known a long time - Unix version 6 that came out in 1975 already had crypt that was used for one-way encryption of passwords. Does anybody know why mailman stores passwords in clear text? I imagine that, back in the '90s, when majordomo was written, it seemed an OK thing to do because nobody thought that all their email was being read - now that everybody knows that e-mail is entirely unsafe, it seems odd that mailman still does this. Are there any plans to tighten the security up? From cpz at tuunq.com Fri Aug 1 20:30:39 2014 From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2014 11:30:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password reminders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53DBDCCF.4060008@tuunq.com> On 8/1/2014 9:11 AM, Peter Brooks wrote: > Does anybody know why mailman stores passwords in clear text? Because it was easy? http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+2.1+Members+Manual 6 Passwords Do NOT use a valuable password for Mailman, since it can be sent in plain text to you. > Are there any plans to tighten the security up? http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+3.0 Later, z! From shop at justbrits.com Sat Aug 2 03:08:25 2014 From: shop at justbrits.com (Ed Kaler) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2014 20:08:25 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password reminders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53DC3A09.5040403@justbrits.com> << On 8/1/2014 11:11 AM, Peter Brooks wrote: > Does anybody know why mailman stores passwords in clear text? ?? Peter, just use the "Archives" link a bottom and search last month . Enough info to last you a month . Ed " Just Brits " From peter.brooks at kchclinics.com Sat Aug 2 08:51:54 2014 From: peter.brooks at kchclinics.com (Peter Brooks) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 08:51:54 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password reminders In-Reply-To: <53DC3A09.5040403@justbrits.com> References: <53DC3A09.5040403@justbrits.com> Message-ID: Thank you, yes, I see, I should have researched further before asking. On 2 August 2014 03:08, Ed Kaler wrote: > > << On 8/1/2014 11:11 AM, Peter Brooks wrote: >> >> Does anybody know why mailman stores passwords in clear text? ?? > > Peter, just use the "Archives" link a bottom and search last month . > > Enough info to last you a month . > > Ed > " Just Brits " > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/peter.brooks%40kchclinics.com From drew at fergiesontour.org Tue Aug 5 13:43:16 2014 From: drew at fergiesontour.org (Drew Ferguson) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 12:43:16 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Noisy cron scripts Message-ID: <20140805124316.0ba58683@blacktav.fergiesontour.org> Hi I upgraded my server the other day and as a result moved from Mailman 2.1.14 to 2.1.15. My lists seem to be working fine but I am pestered by cron sending me almost hourly reports with very unhelpful information like this Subject: Cron /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 08:00:01 +0200 (CEST) Fname: /var/lib/mailman/lists/fergies-on-tour/config.pck The issuing script tends to vary: checkdbs, senddigests, disabled, etc - "disabled" is especially keen to talk to me though Is there something wrong with my setup? Any way I can get the cron scripts to be a bit more helpful? Thanks -- Drew -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 181 bytes Desc: not available URL: From n2ki.ham at gmail.com Wed Aug 6 02:44:57 2014 From: n2ki.ham at gmail.com (Anthony (N2KI)) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 20:44:57 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New To Mailman Message-ID: Hi, I am new to the list and new to mailman. I have Mailman extracted to its own file on Ubuntu but I do not know how to setup the software or to start it. I reviewed the GNU Mailman - List Admin Manual but did not see how to start the software. I have Ubuntu running on a virtual drive. Any help is appreciated. Regards, Anthony (N2KI) From sascha at rissel.it Tue Aug 5 22:23:16 2014 From: sascha at rissel.it (Sascha Rissel) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 22:23:16 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied Error after List Migration Message-ID: Hello, I just tried migrating a list from an old to a new server. Basically I copied /var/lib/mailman/lists/ and copied the private archive as well. Afterwards I - regenerated the archives using "/var/lib/mailman/bin/arch [listname]" and - fixed the urls with ""withlist -l -r fix_url [listname]"" When trying to login into the admin panel, I get "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.15" and in the logs there are the log entries found below: (N.B: All file permissions are set according to my previous server's, but I also tried: "chown -R list.list /var/lib/mailman/lists/"" Can you help me? Regards, Sascha. > Aug 05 19:53:33 2014 (21848) Failed config.pck write, retaining old state. > [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/rcworms-ah/config.pck.tmp.euve51864.serverprofi24.de.21848' > Aug 05 19:53:33 2014 admin(21848): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > admin(21848): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.15 -----] > admin(21848): [----- Traceback ------] > admin(21848): Traceback (most recent call last): > admin(21848): File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main > admin(21848): main() > admin(21848): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 227, in main > admin(21848): mlist.Save() > admin(21848): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 573, in Save > admin(21848): self.__save(dict) > admin(21848): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 528, in __save > admin(21848): fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w') > admin(21848): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/rcworms-ah/config.pck.tmp.euve51864.serverprofi24.de.21848' > admin(21848): [----- Python Information -----] > admin(21848): sys.version = 2.7.3 (default, Mar 13 2014, 11:03:55) > [GCC 4.7.2] > admin(21848): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python > admin(21848): sys.prefix = /usr > admin(21848): sys.exec_prefix = /usr > admin(21848): sys.path = ['/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib', '/var/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/mailman/scripts', '/var/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/python2.7/', '/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-old', '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages'] > admin(21848): sys.platform = linux2 > admin(21848): [----- Environment Variables -----] > admin(21848): HTTP_COOKIE: > admin(21848): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache > admin(21848): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admin > admin(21848): SERVER_SIGNATURE:
Apache Server at lists.euve51864.serverprofi24.de Port 80
> admin(21848): > admin(21848): REQUEST_METHOD: GET > admin(21848): PATH_INFO: /rcworms-ah > admin(21848): SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 > admin(21848): QUERY_STRING: adminpw=AH_MAILAdmin > admin(21848): HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/31.0 > admin(21848): HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive > admin(21848): SERVER_NAME: lists.euve51864.serverprofi24.de > admin(21848): REMOTE_ADDR: 95.88.111.84 > admin(21848): PATH_TRANSLATED: /var/www/vhosts/default/htdocs/rcworms-ah > admin(21848): SERVER_PORT: 80 > admin(21848): SERVER_ADDR: 62.75.175.182 > admin(21848): DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/vhosts/default/htdocs > admin(21848): PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman > admin(21848): SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admin > admin(21848): SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at rc-worms.de > admin(21848): HTTP_DNT: 1 > admin(21848): HTTP_HOST: lists.euve51864.serverprofi24.de > admin(21848): REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admin/rcworms-ah?adminpw=AH_MAILAdmin > admin(21848): HTTP_ACCEPT: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8 > admin(21848): GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 > admin(21848): REMOTE_PORT: 50425 > admin(21848): HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: de-de,de;q=0.8,en-us;q=0.5,en;q=0.3 > admin(21848): HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp Wed Aug 6 08:38:34 2014 From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2014 15:38:34 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied Error after List Migration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87zjfijf6d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Sascha Rissel writes: > (N.B: All file permissions are set according to my previous server's, but I > also tried: "chown -R list.list /var/lib/mailman/lists/"" Try running the bin/check_perms script (or maybe it's checkperms). The wrapper scripts may have a different idea from you about file owners etc. > > Can you help me? > > Regards, > Sascha. > > > Aug 05 19:53:33 2014 (21848) Failed config.pck write, retaining old state. > > [Errno 13] Permission denied: > '/var/lib/mailman/lists/rcworms-ah/config.pck.tmp.euve51864.serverprofi24.de.21848' > > Aug 05 19:53:33 2014 admin(21848): > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > > admin(21848): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.15 -----] > > admin(21848): [----- Traceback ------] > > admin(21848): Traceback (most recent call last): > > admin(21848): File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in > run_main > > admin(21848): main() > > admin(21848): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 227, > in main > > admin(21848): mlist.Save() > > admin(21848): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 573, in > Save > > admin(21848): self.__save(dict) > > admin(21848): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 528, in > __save > > admin(21848): fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w') > > admin(21848): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: > '/var/lib/mailman/lists/rcworms-ah/config.pck.tmp.euve51864.serverprofi24.de.21848' > > admin(21848): [----- Python Information -----] > > admin(21848): sys.version = 2.7.3 (default, Mar 13 2014, 11:03:55) > > [GCC 4.7.2] > > admin(21848): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python > > admin(21848): sys.prefix = /usr > > admin(21848): sys.exec_prefix = /usr > > admin(21848): sys.path = ['/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib', > '/var/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/mailman/scripts', '/var/lib/mailman', > '/usr/lib/python2.7/', '/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2', > '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-old', > '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages'] > > admin(21848): sys.platform = linux2 > > admin(21848): [----- Environment Variables -----] > > admin(21848): HTTP_COOKIE: > > admin(21848): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache > > admin(21848): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admin > > admin(21848): SERVER_SIGNATURE:
Apache Server at > lists.euve51864.serverprofi24.de Port 80
> > admin(21848): > > admin(21848): REQUEST_METHOD: GET > > admin(21848): PATH_INFO: /rcworms-ah > > admin(21848): SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 > > admin(21848): QUERY_STRING: adminpw=AH_MAILAdmin > > admin(21848): HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; > rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/31.0 > > admin(21848): HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive > > admin(21848): SERVER_NAME: lists.euve51864.serverprofi24.de > > admin(21848): REMOTE_ADDR: 95.88.111.84 > > admin(21848): PATH_TRANSLATED: > /var/www/vhosts/default/htdocs/rcworms-ah > > admin(21848): SERVER_PORT: 80 > > admin(21848): SERVER_ADDR: 62.75.175.182 > > admin(21848): DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/vhosts/default/htdocs > > admin(21848): PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman > > admin(21848): SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admin > > admin(21848): SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at rc-worms.de > > admin(21848): HTTP_DNT: 1 > > admin(21848): HTTP_HOST: lists.euve51864.serverprofi24.de > > admin(21848): REQUEST_URI: > /mailman/admin/rcworms-ah?adminpw=AH_MAILAdmin > > admin(21848): HTTP_ACCEPT: > text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8 > > admin(21848): GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 > > admin(21848): REMOTE_PORT: 50425 > > admin(21848): HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: > de-de,de;q=0.8,en-us;q=0.5,en;q=0.3 > > admin(21848): HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/stephen%40xemacs.org From mailman at rissel.it Wed Aug 6 22:39:39 2014 From: mailman at rissel.it (Sascha Rissel) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 22:39:39 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied Error after List Migration In-Reply-To: <87zjfijf6d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87zjfijf6d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: Thanks, in fact I didn't think of that! Meanwhile I created the list on the target server anew, using "newlist" command. Afterwards I exported members and config from the old server and imported it into the new server's list: > list_members -o regular.lst -r > list_members -o digest.lst -d > config_list -o config.cfg > add_members -r regular.lst > add_members -d digest.lst > config_list -i config.cfg Lastly I imported the archive via > /var/lib/mailman/bin/arch Am I right, that this is also a proper way to migrate a list? 2014-08-06 8:38 GMT+02:00 Stephen J. Turnbull : > Sascha Rissel writes: > > > (N.B: All file permissions are set according to my previous server's, > but I > > also tried: "chown -R list.list /var/lib/mailman/lists/"" > > Try running the bin/check_perms script (or maybe it's checkperms). > The wrapper scripts may have a different idea from you about file > owners etc. > > > > Can you help me? > > > > Regards, > > Sascha. > > > > > Aug 05 19:53:33 2014 (21848) Failed config.pck write, retaining old > state. > > > [Errno 13] Permission denied: > > > '/var/lib/mailman/lists/rcworms-ah/config.pck.tmp.euve51864.serverprofi24.de.21848' > > > Aug 05 19:53:33 2014 admin(21848): > > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > > > admin(21848): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.15 -----] > > > admin(21848): [----- Traceback ------] > > > admin(21848): Traceback (most recent call last): > > > admin(21848): File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in > > run_main > > > admin(21848): main() > > > admin(21848): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line > 227, > > in main > > > admin(21848): mlist.Save() > > > admin(21848): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line > 573, in > > Save > > > admin(21848): self.__save(dict) > > > admin(21848): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line > 528, in > > __save > > > admin(21848): fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w') > > > admin(21848): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: > > > '/var/lib/mailman/lists/rcworms-ah/config.pck.tmp.euve51864.serverprofi24.de.21848' > > > admin(21848): [----- Python Information -----] > > > admin(21848): sys.version = 2.7.3 (default, Mar 13 2014, > 11:03:55) > > > [GCC 4.7.2] > > > admin(21848): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python > > > admin(21848): sys.prefix = /usr > > > admin(21848): sys.exec_prefix = /usr > > > admin(21848): sys.path = ['/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib', > > '/var/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/mailman/scripts', '/var/lib/mailman', > > '/usr/lib/python2.7/', '/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2', > > '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-old', > > '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages'] > > > admin(21848): sys.platform = linux2 > > > admin(21848): [----- Environment Variables -----] > > > admin(21848): HTTP_COOKIE: > > > admin(21848): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache > > > admin(21848): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admin > > > admin(21848): SERVER_SIGNATURE:
Apache Server at > > lists.euve51864.serverprofi24.de Port 80
> > > admin(21848): > > > admin(21848): REQUEST_METHOD: GET > > > admin(21848): PATH_INFO: /rcworms-ah > > > admin(21848): SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 > > > admin(21848): QUERY_STRING: adminpw=AH_MAILAdmin > > > admin(21848): HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; > > rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/31.0 > > > admin(21848): HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive > > > admin(21848): SERVER_NAME: lists.euve51864.serverprofi24.de > > > admin(21848): REMOTE_ADDR: 95.88.111.84 > > > admin(21848): PATH_TRANSLATED: > > /var/www/vhosts/default/htdocs/rcworms-ah > > > admin(21848): SERVER_PORT: 80 > > > admin(21848): SERVER_ADDR: 62.75.175.182 > > > admin(21848): DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/vhosts/default/htdocs > > > admin(21848): PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman > > > admin(21848): SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admin > > > admin(21848): SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at rc-worms.de > > > admin(21848): HTTP_DNT: 1 > > > admin(21848): HTTP_HOST: lists.euve51864.serverprofi24.de > > > admin(21848): REQUEST_URI: > > /mailman/admin/rcworms-ah?adminpw=AH_MAILAdmin > > > admin(21848): HTTP_ACCEPT: > > text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8 > > > admin(21848): GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 > > > admin(21848): REMOTE_PORT: 50425 > > > admin(21848): HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: > > de-de,de;q=0.8,en-us;q=0.5,en;q=0.3 > > > admin(21848): HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/stephen%40xemacs.org > From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Aug 7 08:43:49 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 15:43:49 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied Error after List Migration In-Reply-To: References: <87zjfijf6d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87lhr0kdei.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Sascha Rissel writes: > Thanks, in fact I didn't think of that! > > Meanwhile I created the list on the target server anew, using "newlist" > command. > Afterwards I exported members and config from the old server and imported > it into the new server's list: > > list_members -o regular.lst -r > > list_members -o digest.lst -d > > config_list -o config.cfg > > > add_members -r regular.lst > > add_members -d digest.lst > > config_list -i config.cfg > > Lastly I imported the archive via > > /var/lib/mailman/bin/arch I believe this works correctly (I assume that when "importing the archive" you copied the mbox file to the right place). If everything seems to be working without permissions problems then you should be OK. This is really not something I'm terribly expert in. However, Mark Sapiro is on vacation so I did my best. I think he'll be back in a week or two and you can get more help from him (or perhaps others on this list) if something still doesn't seem right. Regards, From mailman at rissel.it Thu Aug 7 09:02:56 2014 From: mailman at rissel.it (Sascha Rissel) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 09:02:56 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied Error after List Migration In-Reply-To: <87lhr0kdei.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87zjfijf6d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87lhr0kdei.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: Many thanks, Stephen! 2014-08-07 8:43 GMT+02:00 Stephen J. Turnbull : > Sascha Rissel writes: > > > Thanks, in fact I didn't think of that! > > > > Meanwhile I created the list on the target server anew, using "newlist" > > command. > > Afterwards I exported members and config from the old server and > imported > > it into the new server's list: > > > list_members -o regular.lst -r > > > list_members -o digest.lst -d > > > config_list -o config.cfg > > > > > add_members -r regular.lst > > > add_members -d digest.lst > > > config_list -i config.cfg > > > > Lastly I imported the archive via > > > /var/lib/mailman/bin/arch > > I believe this works correctly (I assume that when "importing the > archive" you copied the mbox file to the right place). > > If everything seems to be working without permissions problems then > you should be OK. > > This is really not something I'm terribly expert in. However, Mark > Sapiro is on vacation so I did my best. I think he'll be back in a > week or two and you can get more help from him (or perhaps others on > this list) if something still doesn't seem right. > > Regards, > > From hammond at txcorp.com Thu Aug 7 20:56:03 2014 From: hammond at txcorp.com (Anne M. Hammond) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 12:56:03 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Held Messages - Accept via email ? Message-ID: <5E32FBD9-4C7B-4047-A4CE-058D86550A38@txcorp.com> mailman 2.1.12 Can Held Messages be Accept-ed via an email message, by including the list password in the body of the message? For example, as list Moderator, I receive the Held Message summary: -------------------- The test at corp.com mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting for your consideration at: http://internal.corp.com/mailman/admindb/test Please attend to this at your earliest convenience. This notice of pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily. From: kenny.thomas at onlinesalesdata.com on Wed Aug 6 13:21:46 2014 Subject: Attention Required Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list -------------------- Is there a way to send email to test-request at corp.com to Accpt the message? Thanks in advance, Anne Hammond From mark at msapiro.net Sat Aug 9 02:06:30 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2014 17:06:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Noisy cron scripts In-Reply-To: <20140805124316.0ba58683@blacktav.fergiesontour.org> References: <20140805124316.0ba58683@blacktav.fergiesontour.org> Message-ID: <53E56606.3020308@msapiro.net> On 08/05/2014 04:43 AM, Drew Ferguson wrote: > Hi > > I upgraded my server the other day and as a result moved from Mailman > 2.1.14 to 2.1.15. My lists seem to be working fine but I am pestered by > cron sending me almost hourly reports with very unhelpful information like > this > > Subject: Cron /usr/bin/python > -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs > Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 08:00:01 +0200 (CEST) > > Fname: /var/lib/mailman/lists/fergies-on-tour/config.pck Normally cron mails you the output from any job that issues any, but the standard GNU Mailman cron/checkdbs doesn't issue any output unless given invalid arguments or -h/--help. Furthermore, all the crons you mention should each run only once per day. What is the content of Mailman's crontab and/or a system mailman crontab? Is the output always the same? Is there anything relevant in cron's logs? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Aug 9 02:41:54 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2014 17:41:54 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New To Mailman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53E56E52.4070601@msapiro.net> On 08/05/2014 05:44 PM, Anthony (N2KI) wrote: > > I am new to the list and new to mailman. I have Mailman extracted to its > own file on Ubuntu but I do not know how to setup the software or to start > it. I reviewed the GNU Mailman - List Admin Manual but did not see how to > start the software. I have Ubuntu running on a virtual drive. Any help > is appreciated. Assuming you've run 'configure' and 'make install' and just want to start Mailman, see . If that doesn't help, please be more specific about what you've done and what isn't working. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Aug 9 02:56:24 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2014 17:56:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied Error after List Migration In-Reply-To: References: <87zjfijf6d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <53E571B8.6060808@msapiro.net> On 08/06/2014 01:39 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote: > Thanks, in fact I didn't think of that! > > Meanwhile I created the list on the target server anew, using "newlist" > command. > Afterwards I exported members and config from the old server and imported > it into the new server's list: >> list_members -o regular.lst -r >> list_members -o digest.lst -d >> config_list -o config.cfg > >> add_members -r regular.lst >> add_members -d digest.lst >> config_list -i config.cfg This works, but you lose any non-default member options and member passwords. It is easier and more complete to just move the lists/list_name/config.pck from the old server to the new. > Lastly I imported the archive via >> /var/lib/mailman/bin/arch This is good. > Am I right, that this is also a proper way to migrate a list? It works subject to the losses mentioned above. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Aug 9 03:51:36 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2014 18:51:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Held Messages - Accept via email ? In-Reply-To: <5E32FBD9-4C7B-4047-A4CE-058D86550A38@txcorp.com> References: <5E32FBD9-4C7B-4047-A4CE-058D86550A38@txcorp.com> Message-ID: <53E57EA8.6080602@msapiro.net> On 08/07/2014 11:56 AM, Anne M. Hammond wrote: > mailman 2.1.12 > > Can Held Messages be Accept-ed via an email message, by > including the list password in the body of the message? > > For example, as list Moderator, I receive the Held Message > summary: > > -------------------- > > The test at corp.com mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting for your > consideration at: > > http://internal.corp.com/mailman/admindb/test > > Please attend to this at your earliest convenience. This notice of > pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily. > > > From: kenny.thomas at onlinesalesdata.com on Wed Aug 6 13:21:46 2014 > Subject: Attention Required > Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list > > -------------------- > > Is there a way to send email to test-request at corp.com to Accpt the > message? You need the confirmation token which is only included in the individual notices you receive if the list's admin_immed_notify is Yes. If you set this, you will receive a three part message from Mailman with each held message. The first part is the held notice, the second is the held message itself and the third is a message/rfc822 part From: the list-request address with Subject: confirm . The body of that third part says: If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact, Mailman will discard the held message. Do this if the message is spam. If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header with the list password in it, the message will be approved for posting to the list. The Approved: header can also appear in the first line of the body of the reply. The important things are: 1) "reply to this message" means the message/rfc822 part, not the outer message. I.e. the reply goes To: the list-request address with Subject: confirm (possibly with Re: added). Actually it can be any message To: the list-request address with Subject: confirm . 2) if you want to accept rather than discard the message, you must include Approved: password as an actual header or the first body line of the reply where password is the list admin or moderator password. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From drew at afccommercial.co.uk Sat Aug 9 03:30:13 2014 From: drew at afccommercial.co.uk (Drew Ferguson) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 02:30:13 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Noisy cron scripts In-Reply-To: <53E56606.3020308@msapiro.net> References: <20140805124316.0ba58683@blacktav.fergiesontour.org> <53E56606.3020308@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <20140809023013.780860aa@blacktav.fergiesontour.org> Hi Oh dear, this was all my own fault Apologies for the distraction On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 17:06:30 -0700 Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 08/05/2014 04:43 AM, Drew Ferguson wrote: > > Hi > > > > I upgraded my server the other day and as a result moved from Mailman > > 2.1.14 to 2.1.15. My lists seem to be working fine but I am pestered by > > cron sending me almost hourly reports with very unhelpful information > > like this > > > > Subject: Cron /usr/bin/python > > -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs > > Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 08:00:01 +0200 (CEST) > > > > Fname: /var/lib/mailman/lists/fergies-on-tour/config.pck > > > Normally cron mails you the output from any job that issues any, but the > standard GNU Mailman cron/checkdbs doesn't issue any output unless given > invalid arguments or -h/--help. > > Furthermore, all the crons you mention should each run only once per day. > > What is the content of Mailman's crontab and/or a system mailman crontab? > > Is the output always the same? > > Is there anything relevant in cron's logs? > -- Drew Ferguson AFC Commercial http://www.afccommercial.co.uk From n2ki.ham at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 14:23:54 2014 From: n2ki.ham at gmail.com (Anthony (N2KI)) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 08:23:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New To Mailman In-Reply-To: <53E56E52.4070601@msapiro.net> References: <53E56E52.4070601@msapiro.net> Message-ID: Mark, I have been using IS Mail, which is an email server program on a Win 7 64 bit machine for a number of years. What this is used for is to send Alert Activation's (very short messages) to a group of volunteers that assist the county during emergencies (ie, flooding, severe weather, tornadic activity, power outages, etc). It basically will mobilize the troops. As of late, many of the messages that have been sent range from getting marked by gmail as spam to completely bounced by Verizon (using the phone number @ vtext.com syntax). My thought was to find a different/alternate email server program that I can do the same thing with. Since many of the reflectors I subscribe to use Mailman, I though I would give it a go. The requirement was to use a Linux based system in order to do this. I know ZERO about Linux. What I have done so far is to install Virtual Box on the Win 7 64 machine and also install Ubuntu within VirtualBox. I used Ubuntu to download Mailman and then extract it to a separate file folder. That's where I am at. Because of my lack of Linux, I am stuck as to how to start Mailman or even set it up. My intent here is to create three lists as I have now with IS Mail so that the Emergency Coordinator can send a message to the reflector and it will notify the subscribed email addresses for the volunteers subsequently activating the group. Regards, Anthony (N2KI) On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 8:41 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 08/05/2014 05:44 PM, Anthony (N2KI) wrote: > > > > I am new to the list and new to mailman. I have Mailman extracted to its > > own file on Ubuntu but I do not know how to setup the software or to > start > > it. I reviewed the GNU Mailman - List Admin Manual but did not see how > to > > start the software. I have Ubuntu running on a virtual drive. Any > help > > is appreciated. > > > Assuming you've run 'configure' and 'make install' and just want to > start Mailman, see . > > If that doesn't help, please be more specific about what you've done and > what isn't working. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/n2ki.ham%40gmail.com > From cpz at tuunq.com Sat Aug 9 17:41:59 2014 From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2014 08:41:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New To Mailman In-Reply-To: References: <53E56E52.4070601@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <53E64147.4020008@tuunq.com> On 8/9/2014 5:23 AM, Anthony (N2KI) wrote: > As of late, > many of the messages that have been sent range from getting marked by gmail > as spam to completely bounced by Verizon (using the phone number @ vtext.com > syntax). My thought was to find a different/alternate email server > program that I can do the same thing with. A different mailing list manager isn't likely to help the problem; sounds like you're running into spam traps and message authentication issues. Unless you can relay through your ISP's mail server or want to become conversant in things like SPF and DMARC, it's probably best to contract this service. (I wonder if there's a Thunderbird plug-in that will do what's needed here?) z! From n2ki.ham at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 18:12:25 2014 From: n2ki.ham at gmail.com (Anthony (N2KI)) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 12:12:25 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New To Mailman In-Reply-To: <53E64147.4020008@tuunq.com> References: <53E56E52.4070601@msapiro.net> <53E64147.4020008@tuunq.com> Message-ID: Carl That is what I am currently doing with IS Mail. In order for the messages to be sent, IS Mail logs into my account and then sends the mail. I believe the problem could be related but not limited to reverse DNS authentication. My Ip resolves to my domain name via DYNDNS. I also have an MX record as well as a TXT record that is set to allow my domain to send email through my ISP account. Regards, Anthony (N2KI) On Aug 9, 2014 12:01 PM, "Carl Zwanzig" wrote: > On 8/9/2014 5:23 AM, Anthony (N2KI) wrote: > > As of late, >> many of the messages that have been sent range from getting marked by >> gmail >> as spam to completely bounced by Verizon (using the phone number @ >> vtext.com >> syntax). My thought was to find a different/alternate email server >> program that I can do the same thing with. >> > > A different mailing list manager isn't likely to help the problem; sounds > like you're running into spam traps and message authentication issues. > Unless you can relay through your ISP's mail server or want to become > conversant in things like SPF and DMARC, it's probably best to contract > this service. > > (I wonder if there's a Thunderbird plug-in that will do what's needed > here?) > > z! > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ > mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ > n2ki.ham%40gmail.com > From mark at msapiro.net Sat Aug 9 18:22:39 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2014 09:22:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New To Mailman In-Reply-To: References: <53E56E52.4070601@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <53E64ACF.70803@msapiro.net> On 08/09/2014 05:23 AM, Anthony (N2KI) wrote: > > As of late, many of the messages that have been sent range > from getting marked by gmail as spam to completely bounced by Verizon > (using the phone number @ vtext.com syntax). My > thought was to find a different/alternate email server program that I > can do the same thing with. I agree with Carl. The issue is with the way your server sends the mail, not the program used to generate the mail. You need to ensure you have full-circle reverse DNS and also, publishing SPF and DKIM signing outgoing mail will help. > What I have done so far is to install Virtual Box on the Win 7 64 > machine and also install Ubuntu within VirtualBox. I used Ubuntu to > download Mailman and then extract it to a separate file folder. That's > where I am at. If you want to try running Mailman, start with the INSTALL document in the folder in which you unpacked the tarball. This will point you to the installation manual in the doc/ folder which should guide you through the process. You will also need to install web and mail servers in your virtual box. E.g. sudo apt-get install apache sudo apt-get install postfix You could also install the Ubuntu Mailman package sudo apt-get install mailman and use it, but installing from the latest source tarball is preferred. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Sun Aug 10 10:09:23 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 17:09:23 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New To Mailman In-Reply-To: References: <53E56E52.4070601@msapiro.net> <53E64147.4020008@tuunq.com> Message-ID: <8761i0kbpo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Anthony (N2KI) writes: > That is what I am currently doing with IS Mail. In order for the messages > to be sent, IS Mail logs into my account and then sends the mail. I > believe the problem could be related but not limited to reverse DNS > authentication. My Ip resolves to my domain name via DYNDNS. I also have > an MX record as well as a TXT record that is set to allow my domain to send > email through my ISP account. As with Mark and Carl, I think you are running into receiving domains that are willing to do things to reduce spam received at even fairly high cost in reliable delivery of desired mail. Specifically, they are rejecting or discarding mail that is not authenticated merely because of the lack of authentication. The basic configuration should have an MX record that points to a host with an A record (not a CNAME), and a PTR record that also points to the same name as the A record. It sounds like you have that at the ISP. Note that if your MX record points to the ISP, and all your mail in and out goes through the ISP, it probably doesn't much matter (for mail!) what your own host's DNS configuration is. Now, I'm not sure what you mean by a TXT record. Perhaps it's SPF, looking something like this: example.com. TXT "v=spf1 +mx a:colo.example.com/28 -all" (the "v=spf1" is what makes it SPF). For more about SPF TXT records, see http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7208#section-3. (I don't recommend reading the whole thing, if you're not familiar with RFC-ese already.) If not, you should publish one. However, SPF only solves a minority of authentication problems. Also, your SPF record should specify your ISP's MX, as well as your own domain. You should also sign outgoing messages according to the DKIM protocol. This requires creating keypairs, and publishing them in the DNS. I'm not comfortable trying to explain how this is done in an email, though. You should ask your ISP if they do this/can do this for you. Finally, you should ensure that the DKIM-signed mail is never altered in any way once signed. If your ISP provides SPF for itself and DKIM-signs the mail for you, this condition is satisfied. From sako.eaton at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 22:07:50 2014 From: sako.eaton at gmail.com (S. Patrick Eaton) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 13:07:50 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Controlling Mailman 2.1.x remotely Message-ID: Hello, Mailman experts. I've been doing some development work for a Tokyo-based NPO that offers participation in a number of Mailman lists as one of the benefits of membership in the organization. Because membership in the organization is a requirement for participating in the Mailman discussions, the organization has not been providing members with direct access to the Mailman administrative features for subscribing and unsubscribing, but instead has been providing a homegrown administrative interface that uses PHP and curl to simulate user interactions via POST. When a recent update to Mailman introduced CSRF tokens, however, this approach broke down and the organization has been struggling to figure out how to manage the lists ever since. We know that Mailman 3 provides an API, which is exactly what we need, but because the site and Mailman lists are both on shared hosting, we are currently only able to use Mailman 2.1.x. Can anyone recommend a good approach to managing subscriptions in an automated way using either PHP or Python until such time as we can get our host to upgrade to Mailman 3? Any suggestions or pointers would be greatly appreciated. With many thanks in advance, Sako Eaton From mark at msapiro.net Sun Aug 10 23:01:02 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 14:01:02 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Controlling Mailman 2.1.x remotely In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53E7DD8E.9090303@msapiro.net> On 08/10/2014 01:07 PM, S. Patrick Eaton wrote: > > ... has > been providing a homegrown administrative interface that uses PHP and curl > to simulate user interactions via POST. > > When a recent update to Mailman introduced CSRF tokens, however, this > approach broke down and the organization has been struggling to figure out > how to manage the lists ever since. If you are authenticating to the admin interface via a cookie from a preceding login, you can modify the PHP scripts to first GET the page, parse the page for the value of csrf_token and submit csrf_token= along with the POST data. On the other hand, if you authenticate by including adminpw= in the POST data, the CSRF token is not required as it is only checked if authentication is not via password. See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gayleard at alice.it Sun Aug 10 22:45:03 2014 From: gayleard at alice.it (Timothy Murphy) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 22:45:03 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Closing defunct mailman lists Message-ID: <1651161.6hXj8iXakc@rose.gayleard.eu> I have forgotten my password on a couple of ancient mailman lists which I started many years ago and which occasionally get spam posts. (a) Is there any way of finding (or changing) the password without superuser privilege? (b) If one does have superuser privileges what is the simplest way to change the password on a mailman list? (I still have this privilege since I used to run the system, but prefer not to use it if it can be avoided.) -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From her at adm.ku.dk Mon Aug 11 15:15:41 2014 From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:15:41 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest issues Message-ID: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289D50D@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> I am using Mailman version 2.1.12. One of my list admins have complained that he's list does not send out digest mails, which is most likely because he set digest_size_threshhold to 1000. But he also complains that no digest mails are being sent when he set _send_digest_now to Yes. He also set digest_send_periodic to Yes. We're confused that the digest_send_periodic text is saying "Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't reached?" as he wants the digest to be sent weekly as set in digest_volume_frequency. The /var/log/cron shows that the /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests is being run daily at noon. 1) Where can I see if digest mails are in fact being sent out? 2) Where will Mailman log digest issues? 3) Does the digest_send_periodic daily affect the digest_volume_frequency weekly? Yours faithfully Henrik Rasmussen Systemadministrator, Core Services UNIVERSITY OF COPENHAGEN Corporate IT, Operation & Support N?rregade 10, P.O. Box 2177 DK1017 Copenhagen K Tel: +45 35322626 Dir: +45 35322704 Fax: +45 35322707 Email: her at adm.ku.dk Web: it.ku.dk [KU-logo_UK] From mark at msapiro.net Tue Aug 12 02:41:10 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:41:10 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Closing defunct mailman lists In-Reply-To: <1651161.6hXj8iXakc@rose.gayleard.eu> References: <1651161.6hXj8iXakc@rose.gayleard.eu> Message-ID: <53E962A6.7010108@msapiro.net> On 08/10/2014 01:45 PM, Timothy Murphy wrote: > I have forgotten my password on a couple of ancient mailman lists > which I started many years ago and which occasionally get spam posts. > > (a) Is there any way of finding (or changing) the password > without superuser privilege? You don't need superuser privilege, but you need shell access to the Mailman server and write access the the Mailman installation. See the FAQ at . > (b) If one does have superuser privileges what is the simplest way > to change the password on a mailman list? See the above FAQ. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Aug 12 02:59:48 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:59:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest issues In-Reply-To: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289D50D@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> References: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289D50D@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> Message-ID: <53E96704.1030309@msapiro.net> On 08/11/2014 06:15 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote: > I am using Mailman version 2.1.12. > > One of my list admins have complained that he's list does not send out digest mails, which is most likely because he set digest_size_threshhold to 1000. That could be the reason. > But he also complains that no digest mails are being sent when he set _send_digest_now to Yes. Did he press "Submit Your Changes" after setting _send_digest_now to Yes? If so, and if there were digested messages and digest members with delivery enabled, something else is wrong. What response did he get when pressing "Submit Your Changes" after setting _send_digest_now to Yes? What's in Mailman's error log. > He also set digest_send_periodic to Yes. > > We're confused that the digest_send_periodic text is saying "Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't reached?" as he wants the digest to be sent weekly as set in digest_volume_frequency. digest_volume_frequency has nothing to do with how often periodic digests are sent. It only controls how often the vvv is incremented and ii is reset in the "List_name Digest, Vol vvv, Issue ii" Subject: header of the digest. > The /var/log/cron shows that the /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests is being run daily at noon. Good. > 1) Where can I see if digest mails are in fact being sent out? Your MTA logs and Mailman's smtp log. Also, digest messages are accumulated in lists/list_name/digest.mbox, and when a digest is sent, this file is removed. > 2) Where will Mailman log digest issues? Mailman's error log and in the output from cron/senddigests (for periodic digests. Note, that often the output, if any, from Mailman's cron jobs is mailed to the 'mailman' user which happens to be the site list. If the site list is not configured to accept non-member posts, and the site admin is not a member of the site list, this output is often lost. You can either set the site list as above or add a MAILTO= directive with a deliverable address to Mailman's crontab. > 3) Does the digest_send_periodic daily affect the digest_volume_frequency weekly? They have nothing to do with each other. Note you can run cron/senddigests manually for all or a single list. See 'cron/senddigests -h'. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From her at adm.ku.dk Tue Aug 12 09:32:09 2014 From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:32:09 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest issues In-Reply-To: <53E96704.1030309@msapiro.net> References: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289D50D@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> <53E96704.1030309@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289E13A@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> On 08/12/2014 03:00 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >On 08/11/2014 06:15 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote: >> I am using Mailman version 2.1.12. >> >> But he also complains that no digest mails are being sent when he set _send_digest_now to Yes. >Did he press "Submit Your Changes" after setting _send_digest_now to Yes? If so, and if there were digested messages and digest members with delivery enabled, something else is wrong. Yes he did. I did too, afterwards. >What response did he get when pressing "Submit Your Changes" after setting _send_digest_now to Yes? What's in Mailman's error log. I got the message "There was no digest to send". No messages regarding this list in /var/log/mailman/error (or any other log in this directory for that matter). The smtp log show that the list do send message (to normal-members I guess), but I can't verify if messages are sent to digest-members. The list admin say no mails are sent to digest-members. >> He also set digest_send_periodic to Yes. > > >> We're confused that the digest_send_periodic text is saying "Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't reached?" as he wants the digest to be sent weekly as set in digest_volume_frequency. >digest_volume_frequency has nothing to do with how often periodic digests are sent. It only controls how often the vvv is incremented and ii is reset in the "List_name Digest, Vol vvv, Issue ii" >Subject: header of the digest. I am still confused, even after reading section 2.6 in http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-admin.pdf. In my understanding, (and I know I'm wrong here) if the volume number is changed weekly, but digest mails are sent daily, all digests will contain the same volume number all week long. What is the difference between volume number and issue number, and when do Mailman send what? >> 1) Where can I see if digest mails are in fact being sent out? >Your MTA logs and Mailman's smtp log. Also, digest messages are accumulated in lists/list_name/digest.mbox, and when a digest is sent, this file is removed. How can I tell normal from digest? Will the digest mails mention Digest I the SMTP log. If so, no digests have been sent. >> 2) Where will Mailman log digest issues? >Mailman's error log and in the output from cron/senddigests (for periodic digests. No errors in the error log. Cron/senddigests -l LISTNAME. However, shows [root at mailman.example.com]# /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests -l Sci-diku-imageworld Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 106, in main() File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 84, in main mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__ self.Load() File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 626, in Load raise Errors.MMUnknownListError Mailman.Errors.MMUnknownListError >Note, that often the output, if any, from Mailman's cron jobs is mailed to the 'mailman' user which happens to be the site list. If the site list is not configured to accept non-member posts, and the >site admin is not a member of the site list, this output is often lost. >You can either set the site list as above or add a MAILTO= directive with a deliverable address to Mailman's crontab. Thanks. >-- >Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, Henrik Rasmussen From her at adm.ku.dk Tue Aug 12 12:11:54 2014 From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:11:54 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest issues In-Reply-To: References: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289D50D@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> <53E96704.1030309@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289E8B9@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> Further info on the problem is that the list admin just released 47 mails 30 minutes ago (please note that the digest_size_threshhold is now = 0, was previously 1000). Until now the list have sent 22 digest-mails with a single mail in each digest mail, all named Volume 20, but with increasing Issue number from 1 to 22. The numbering is expected, but the mails should've been send as a collection, not as individual mails. Right now the settings are nondigestable = True scrub_nondigest = False digestable = True digest_is_default = 1 mime_is_default_digest = 0 digest_size_threshhold = 0 digest_send_periodic = 1 digest_header = '' digest_volume_frequency = 3 There is no /var/lib/mailman/lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox for the list in question, or any other list. Though I don't know which other lists do send digest mails. The list admin now have Emergency-moderated the list. I guess this is just to stop all incoming traffic from being sent out, and have no effect on what the list admin do release, right? Henrik Rasmussen -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Henrik Rasmussen Sendt: 12. august 2014 09:32 Til: Mark Sapiro; mailman-users at python.org Emne: SV: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest issues On 08/12/2014 03:00 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >On 08/11/2014 06:15 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote: >> I am using Mailman version 2.1.12. >> >> But he also complains that no digest mails are being sent when he set _send_digest_now to Yes. >Did he press "Submit Your Changes" after setting _send_digest_now to Yes? If so, and if there were digested messages and digest members with delivery enabled, something else is wrong. Yes he did. I did too, afterwards. >What response did he get when pressing "Submit Your Changes" after setting _send_digest_now to Yes? What's in Mailman's error log. I got the message "There was no digest to send". No messages regarding this list in /var/log/mailman/error (or any other log in this directory for that matter). The smtp log show that the list do send message (to normal-members I guess), but I can't verify if messages are sent to digest-members. The list admin say no mails are sent to digest-members. >> He also set digest_send_periodic to Yes. > > >> We're confused that the digest_send_periodic text is saying "Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't reached?" as he wants the digest to be sent weekly as set in digest_volume_frequency. >digest_volume_frequency has nothing to do with how often periodic digests are sent. It only controls how often the vvv is incremented and ii is reset in the "List_name Digest, Vol vvv, Issue ii" >Subject: header of the digest. I am still confused, even after reading section 2.6 in http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-admin.pdf. In my understanding, (and I know I'm wrong here) if the volume number is changed weekly, but digest mails are sent daily, all digests will contain the same volume number all week long. What is the difference between volume number and issue number, and when do Mailman send what? >> 1) Where can I see if digest mails are in fact being sent out? >Your MTA logs and Mailman's smtp log. Also, digest messages are accumulated in lists/list_name/digest.mbox, and when a digest is sent, this file is removed. How can I tell normal from digest? Will the digest mails mention Digest I the SMTP log. If so, no digests have been sent. >> 2) Where will Mailman log digest issues? >Mailman's error log and in the output from cron/senddigests (for periodic digests. No errors in the error log. Cron/senddigests -l LISTNAME. However, shows [root at mailman.example.com]# /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests -l Sci-diku-imageworld Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 106, in main() File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 84, in main mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__ self.Load() File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 626, in Load raise Errors.MMUnknownListError Mailman.Errors.MMUnknownListError >Note, that often the output, if any, from Mailman's cron jobs is mailed to the 'mailman' user which happens to be the site list. If the site list is not configured to accept non-member posts, and the >site admin is not a member of the site list, this output is often lost. >You can either set the site list as above or add a MAILTO= directive with a deliverable address to Mailman's crontab. Thanks. >-- >Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, Henrik Rasmussen From mark at msapiro.net Tue Aug 12 18:55:38 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 09:55:38 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest issues In-Reply-To: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289E13A@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> References: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289D50D@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> <53E96704.1030309@msapiro.net> <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289E13A@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> Message-ID: <53EA470A.8020307@msapiro.net> On 08/12/2014 12:32 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote: > > The smtp log show that the list do send message (to normal-members I guess), but I can't verify if messages are sent to digest-members. The list admin say no mails are sent to digest-members. The smtp log message for a digest would look similar to Aug 12 12:xx:xx 2014 (pid) smtp to listname for nn recips, completed in t.ttt seconds I.e, it would be timestamped shortly after noon and have a Mailman generated message id. There might be two, one for all plain format digests and one for MIME format digests. > I am still confused, even after reading section 2.6 in http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-admin.pdf. In my understanding, (and I know I'm wrong here) if the volume number is changed weekly, but digest mails are sent daily, all digests will contain the same volume number all week long. What is the difference between volume number and issue number, and when do Mailman send what? A volume is a set of issues. The very first digest is Volume 1, Issue 1. The next is Volume 1, Issue 2 and so on. After digest_volume_frequency elapses, the next digest is Volume 2, Issue 1, and so on. Most print periodicals work the same way. > How can I tell normal from digest? Will the digest mails mention Digest I the SMTP log. If so, no digests have been sent. Digests have a mailman generated message id of the form , but so do all Mailman generated notices, but the latter have only one or a few recipients. > No errors in the error log. Cron/senddigests -l LISTNAME. However, shows > > [root at mailman.example.com]# /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests -l Sci-diku-imageworld > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 106, in > main() > File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 84, in main > mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__ > self.Load() > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 626, in Load > raise Errors.MMUnknownListError > Mailman.Errors.MMUnknownListError Does LISTNAME (all lower case) exist? Does the file lists/listname/config.pck exist in Mailman's file system? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Aug 12 19:04:31 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:04:31 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest issues In-Reply-To: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289E8B9@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> References: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289D50D@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> <53E96704.1030309@msapiro.net> <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289E8B9@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> Message-ID: <53EA491F.9060008@msapiro.net> On 08/12/2014 03:11 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote: > Further info on the problem is that the list admin just released 47 mails 30 minutes ago (please note that the digest_size_threshhold is now = 0, was previously 1000). Until now the list have sent 22 digest-mails with a single mail in each digest mail, all named Volume 20, but with increasing Issue number from 1 to 22. The numbering is expected, but the mails should've been send as a collection, not as individual mails. This is a bug . It was fixed in 2.1.16. Prior to that, setting digest_size_threshhold = 0 would produce the behavior you see. If you want no digests based on size in older versions, set digest_size_threshhold = a very large number. > There is no /var/lib/mailman/lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox for the list in question, or any other list. Though I don't know which other lists do send digest mails. Because the digest has been sent. > The list admin now have Emergency-moderated the list. I guess this is just to stop all incoming traffic from being sent out, and have no effect on what the list admin do release, right? I don't understand this question. With emergency = Yes, all posts will be held and if approved by the list admin/moderator will be delivered to the list and accumulated for the digest (which with digest_size_threshhold = 0 pre 2.1.16 will be sent immediately, one digest per post). -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From pshute at nuw.org.au Wed Aug 13 00:33:45 2014 From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 08:33:45 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scrub_nondigest removing html message text Message-ID: We've discovered that if scrub_nondigest is set to Yes, the text of html messages (perhaps html-only?) is removed and replaced with a link to it. When users follow the link, the html tags in the text are visible because the angle brackets have been replaced with html codes. Is there a way to prevent scrub_nondigest removing these message parts? Is there a way to at least stop the angle brackets getting converted to codes? Peter Shute From mark at msapiro.net Wed Aug 13 02:00:55 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 17:00:55 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scrub_nondigest removing html message text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53EAAAB7.3070100@msapiro.net> On 08/12/2014 03:33 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > We've discovered that if scrub_nondigest is set to Yes, the text of html messages (perhaps html-only?) is removed and replaced with a link to it. When users follow the link, the html tags in the text are visible because the angle brackets have been replaced with html codes. > > Is there a way to prevent scrub_nondigest removing these message parts? Is there a way to at least stop the angle brackets getting converted to codes? This is at least partially controlled by the ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER setting. Read the documentation for this setting in Mailman/Defaults.py and if you want to change it from the default, set it in Mailman/mm_cfg.py. The real issue is that scrub_nondigest is something of an afterthought for people who want non-text/plain attachments to list posts removed and replaced by links. The scrubber's purpose is to flatten the message to a single text/plain part for the list's archive and the plain format digest. Thus, if you want an HTML part rendered as HTML rather than a plain text representation of the HTML source, you need to set ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 3 which will save the HTML part aside and replace it by a link, but be sure to read the comment about this setting in Defaults.py. You can set ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 2 which will leave the HTML inline, but it will be in a text/plain message and HTML-escaped. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From pshute at nuw.org.au Wed Aug 13 03:34:10 2014 From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 11:34:10 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scrub_nondigest removing html message text In-Reply-To: <53EAAAB7.3070100@msapiro.net> References: <53EAAAB7.3070100@msapiro.net> Message-ID: Thanks for that. We're on cpanel, so I assume we can't adjust ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER? I'm not sure we need html emails to come through as html, but we at least want plain text, not a link to a messed up html message. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mailman-Users > [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org.au at python.org] > On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro > Sent: Wednesday, 13 August 2014 10:01 AM > To: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Scrub_nondigest removing html > message text > > On 08/12/2014 03:33 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > > We've discovered that if scrub_nondigest is set to Yes, the > text of html messages (perhaps html-only?) is removed and > replaced with a link to it. When users follow the link, the > html tags in the text are visible because the angle brackets > have been replaced with html codes. > > > > Is there a way to prevent scrub_nondigest removing these > message parts? Is there a way to at least stop the angle > brackets getting converted to codes? > > > This is at least partially controlled by the > ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER setting. Read the documentation for > this setting in Mailman/Defaults.py and if you want to change > it from the default, set it in Mailman/mm_cfg.py. > > The real issue is that scrub_nondigest is something of an > afterthought for people who want non-text/plain attachments > to list posts removed and replaced by links. > > The scrubber's purpose is to flatten the message to a single > text/plain part for the list's archive and the plain format > digest. Thus, if you want an HTML part rendered as HTML > rather than a plain text representation of the HTML source, > you need to set ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 3 which will save > the HTML part aside and replace it by a link, but be sure to > read the comment about this setting in Defaults.py. > > You can set ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 2 which will leave the > HTML inline, but it will be in a text/plain message and HTML-escaped. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: > http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4 0nuw.org.au > From mark at msapiro.net Wed Aug 13 03:52:16 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 18:52:16 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scrub_nondigest removing html message text In-Reply-To: References: <53EAAAB7.3070100@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <53EAC4D0.4090500@msapiro.net> On 08/12/2014 06:34 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > Thanks for that. We're on cpanel, so I assume we can't adjust ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER? That depends on your cPanel hosting service, assuming this is a hosted list. If it's your own server, you will find Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py in /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/. > I'm not sure we need html emails to come through as html, but we at least want plain text, not a link to a messed up html message. Set the following in your list's Content filtering section. filter_content = Yes filter_mime_types - empty pass_mime_types - multipart text/plain text/html plus any other mime types you want to allow. filter_filename_extensions - Defaults are OK pass_filename_extensions - empty collapse_alternatives = Yes convert_html_to_plaintext = Yes -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From pshute at nuw.org.au Wed Aug 13 04:15:22 2014 From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:15:22 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scrub_nondigest removing html message text In-Reply-To: <53EAC4D0.4090500@msapiro.net> References: <53EAAAB7.3070100@msapiro.net> <53EAC4D0.4090500@msapiro.net> Message-ID: Thanks for that, I'll give that a try. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] > Sent: Wednesday, 13 August 2014 11:52 AM > To: Peter Shute; mailman-users at python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Scrub_nondigest removing html > message text > > On 08/12/2014 06:34 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > > Thanks for that. We're on cpanel, so I assume we can't > adjust ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER? > > > That depends on your cPanel hosting service, assuming this is > a hosted list. If it's your own server, you will find > Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py in > /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/. > > > > I'm not sure we need html emails to come through as html, > but we at least want plain text, not a link to a messed up > html message. > > > Set the following in your list's Content filtering section. > > filter_content = Yes > filter_mime_types - empty > pass_mime_types - > multipart > text/plain > text/html > plus any other mime types you want to allow. > filter_filename_extensions - Defaults are OK > pass_filename_extensions - empty collapse_alternatives = Yes > convert_html_to_plaintext = Yes > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > From al.maskari at hotmail.com Wed Aug 13 10:24:05 2014 From: al.maskari at hotmail.com (Abdullah AL-Maskari) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:24:05 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New To Mailman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Anthony, you might find this useful >> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mailman there are quite a few tutorials online on how to set mailman up including the official one here >> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.html Regards, Abdullah On 06/08/2014 01:44, Anthony (N2KI) wrote: > Hi, > > I am new to the list and new to mailman. I have Mailman extracted to its > own file on Ubuntu but I do not know how to setup the software or to start > it. I reviewed the GNU Mailman - List Admin Manual but did not see how to > start the software. I have Ubuntu running on a virtual drive. Any help > is appreciated. > > Regards, > > Anthony (N2KI) > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/al.maskari%40hotmail.com From her at adm.ku.dk Wed Aug 13 09:53:46 2014 From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:53:46 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest issues In-Reply-To: <53EA470A.8020307@msapiro.net> References: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289D50D@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> <53E96704.1030309@msapiro.net> <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289E13A@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> <53EA470A.8020307@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC28A03FC@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> On 08/12/2014 6:56 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> I am still confused, even after reading section 2.6 in http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-admin.pdf. In my understanding, (and I know I'm wrong here) if the volume number is >>changed weekly, but digest mails are sent daily, all digests will contain the same volume number all week long. What is the difference between volume number and issue number, and when do >>Mailman send what? >A volume is a set of issues. The very first digest is Volume 1, Issue 1. >The next is Volume 1, Issue 2 and so on. After digest_volume_frequency elapses, the next digest is Volume 2, Issue 1, and so on. > >Most print periodicals work the same way. What is the purpose of using both Volumes and issues? I mean, wouldn't a single counter (like Issue) be sufficient? I ask simply to understand the nature, and relations between Digest options (where exist). >> No errors in the error log. Cron/senddigests -l LISTNAME. However, >> shows >> >> [root at mailman.example.com]# /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests -l Sci-diku-imageworld >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 106, in >> main() >> File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 84, in main >> mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) >> File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__ >> self.Load() >> File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 626, in Load >> raise Errors.MMUnknownListError >> Mailman.Errors.MMUnknownListError > > >Does LISTNAME (all lower case) exist? Does the file lists/listname/config.pck exist in Mailman's file system? Yes, the list (lower case except for the first character, as list_lists display them) do exist, and the lists/sci-diku-imageworld/config.pck too. > This is a bug . It was fixed in 2.1.16. Prior to that, setting digest_size_threshhold = 0 would produce the behavior you see. > >If you want no digests based on size in older versions, set digest_size_threshhold = a very large number. No Digest mails was sent at all when digest_size_threshhold = 1000. >I don't understand this question. With emergency = Yes, all posts will be held and if approved by the list admin/moderator will be delivered to the list and accumulated for the digest (which with >digest_size_threshhold = 0 pre 2.1.16 will be sent immediately, one digest per post). Thanks, that's what I meant and figured. Henrik Rasmussen From Richard at Damon-Family.org Wed Aug 13 13:37:55 2014 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:37:55 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest issues In-Reply-To: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC28A03FC@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> References: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289D50D@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> <53E96704.1030309@msapiro.net> <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289E13A@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> <53EA470A.8020307@msapiro.net> <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC28A03FC@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> Message-ID: <53EB4E13.3040906@Damon-Family.org> On 8/13/14, 3:53 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote: > On 08/12/2014 6:56 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> A volume is a set of issues. The very first digest is Volume 1, Issue 1. >> The next is Volume 1, Issue 2 and so on. After digest_volume_frequency elapses, the next digest is Volume 2, Issue 1, and so on. >> >> Most print periodicals work the same way. > What is the purpose of using both Volumes and issues? I mean, wouldn't a single counter (like Issue) be sufficient? I ask simply to understand the nature, and relations between Digest options (where exist). > > Henrik Rasmussen I can't help with why you aren't getting digests, but for this question, the basic answer is as Mark said, Tradition. Print periodicals are typically numbered with a Volume and Issue. This possibly allows them to be bound or at least collected into volumes for archival purposes. The Digest has adopted this mode of numbering (but there is no digest archive provided so no binding of them into Volumes). It does allow for referring to a recent issue with a smaller number, as if you can presume recent (shorter time frame than Volume numbering), then just the issue number is sufficient to specify a digest. I would say that Volumes are typically done on an Annual basis, but I could imagine using Monthly for a very active list. -- Richard Damon From rdwoodford at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 16:13:07 2014 From: rdwoodford at gmail.com (Russell Woodford) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 00:13:07 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber list Message-ID: How do I get a full list of subscribers via the Mailman web control panel (sadly 2.1.15 because Namecheap still haven't upgraded)? Sorry for such a newbie question, but the arguments with my shared hosting service have turned my brain to jelly. I can see the subscribers 100 at a time, but I want to get a full list, preferrably with everyone's settings, and ideally as a text file or download. I am forced to move my list because the host has decided that they will count each outbound message from the list as a separate email, so I violate the 200 per hour limit every time someone posts or responds ... we have over 900 active members. Russell Woodford Geelong Australia From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Wed Aug 13 16:17:34 2014 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 16:17:34 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140813141734.GF18415@charite.de> * Russell Woodford : > How do I get a full list of subscribers via the Mailman web control panel > (sadly 2.1.15 because Namecheap still haven't upgraded)? You can't via the webinterface. -- Ralf Hildebrandt Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de Campus Benjamin Franklin http://www.charite.de Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155 From jaw171 at pitt.edu Wed Aug 13 16:29:44 2014 From: jaw171 at pitt.edu (Jeff White) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:29:44 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber list In-Reply-To: <20140813141734.GF18415@charite.de> References: <20140813141734.GF18415@charite.de> Message-ID: <53EB7658.8060404@pitt.edu> I don't know about 2.1.15 but in 2.1.14 I can get the full list of members from: https://list.EXAMPLE.edu/mailman/roster/LISTNAME There's an option that controls how it will display members (@ vs. ' at ') and mind the note about "Parenthesized entries have list delivery disabled" if you are going to parse the HTML into a plain text list. Jeff White - GNU+Linux Systems Administrator University of Pittsburgh - CSSD On 08/13/2014 10:17 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote: > * Russell Woodford : >> How do I get a full list of subscribers via the Mailman web control panel >> (sadly 2.1.15 because Namecheap still haven't upgraded)? > > You can't via the webinterface. > From mark at msapiro.net Wed Aug 13 16:41:04 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:41:04 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest issues In-Reply-To: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC28A03FC@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> References: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289D50D@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> <53E96704.1030309@msapiro.net> <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289E13A@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> <53EA470A.8020307@msapiro.net> <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC28A03FC@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> Message-ID: <53EB7900.2030302@msapiro.net> On 08/13/2014 12:53 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote: >>> >>> [root at mailman.example.com]# /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests -l Sci-diku-imageworld Sorry, I missed this before. List names in Mailman's bin/ commands generally need to be Mailman's 'internal' list name. I.e. the all-lower-case name, not the mixed case real_name. Try /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests -l sci-diku-imageworld > No Digest mails was sent at all when digest_size_threshhold = 1000. Digests with one message each were being sent with digest_size_threshhold = 0 so if this is raised to say digest_size_threshhold = 10000 periodic digests should be sent. If there are messages accumulated for the digest, i.e., /var/lib/mailman/lists/sci-diku-imageworld/digest.mbox exists, and you run /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests -l sci-diku-imageworld digests should be sent. If so, and they are not being sent daily, I am at a loss since your cron log shows cron/senddigests is being run. If the above does not send the digests, what does it report? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Aug 13 16:47:43 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:47:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest issues In-Reply-To: <53EB7900.2030302@msapiro.net> References: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289D50D@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> <53E96704.1030309@msapiro.net> <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC289E13A@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> <53EA470A.8020307@msapiro.net> <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713DC28A03FC@P1KITMBX05WC03.unicph.domain> <53EB7900.2030302@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <53EB7A8F.9050805@msapiro.net> On 08/13/2014 07:41 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > List names in Mailman's bin/ commands > generally need to be Mailman's 'internal' list name. I.e. the > all-lower-case name, not the mixed case real_name. Actually, most if not all of the bin/ scripts will lower-case the provided list name so a mixed case name will work for them, but at least some of the cron/ scripts don't do this. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Aug 13 16:52:21 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:52:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53EB7BA5.4080105@msapiro.net> On 08/13/2014 07:13 AM, Russell Woodford wrote: > How do I get a full list of subscribers via the Mailman web control panel See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Richard at Damon-Family.org Thu Aug 14 13:04:21 2014 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 07:04:21 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53EC97B5.1030805@Damon-Family.org> On 8/13/14, 10:13 AM, Russell Woodford wrote: > How do I get a full list of subscribers via the Mailman web control panel > (sadly 2.1.15 because Namecheap still haven't upgraded)? > > > Sorry for such a newbie question, but the arguments with my shared hosting > service have turned my brain to jelly. > I can see the subscribers 100 at a time, but I want to get a full list, > preferrably with everyone's settings, and ideally as a text file or > download. > > I am forced to move my list because the host has decided that they will > count each outbound message from the list as a separate email, so I violate > the 200 per hour limit every time someone posts or responds ... we have > over 900 active members. > > Russell Woodford > Geelong > Australia > Have you tried changing your "chunck-size" to be 1000 (more than the number of members?) It is on the "General Options" page. -- Richard Damon From mailman at rissel.it Thu Aug 14 13:18:45 2014 From: mailman at rissel.it (Sascha Rissel) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:18:45 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied Error after List Migration In-Reply-To: <53E571B8.6060808@msapiro.net> References: <87zjfijf6d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53E571B8.6060808@msapiro.net> Message-ID: Mark, many thanks for your detailed explanation! After Stephen's hint to use check_perms, I performed the migration on a second list, and it went through fine. :-) Kind regards, Sascha. 2014-08-09 2:56 GMT+02:00 Mark Sapiro : > On 08/06/2014 01:39 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote: > > Thanks, in fact I didn't think of that! > > > > Meanwhile I created the list on the target server anew, using "newlist" > > command. > > Afterwards I exported members and config from the old server and imported > > it into the new server's list: > >> list_members -o regular.lst -r > >> list_members -o digest.lst -d > >> config_list -o config.cfg > > > >> add_members -r regular.lst > >> add_members -d digest.lst > >> config_list -i config.cfg > > > This works, but you lose any non-default member options and member > passwords. It is easier and more complete to just move the > lists/list_name/config.pck from the old server to the new. > > > > Lastly I imported the archive via > >> /var/lib/mailman/bin/arch > > > This is good. > > > > Am I right, that this is also a proper way to migrate a list? > > > It works subject to the losses mentioned above. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mailman%40rissel.it > From rdwoodford at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 14:19:19 2014 From: rdwoodford at gmail.com (Russell Woodford) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 22:19:19 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber list In-Reply-To: <53EC97B5.1030805@Damon-Family.org> References: <53EC97B5.1030805@Damon-Family.org> Message-ID: Hi Richard Yes, I adjusted chuck_size, but it still only lists the addresses by each letter: http://list.server/mailman/admin/listname/members?letter=b Is there a way to make it show ALL on one page? Many thanks Russell On 14 August 2014 21:04, Richard Damon wrote: > On 8/13/14, 10:13 AM, Russell Woodford wrote: > >> How do I get a full list of subscribers via the Mailman web control panel >> (sadly 2.1.15 because Namecheap still haven't upgraded)? >> >> >> Sorry for such a newbie question, but the arguments with my shared hosting >> service have turned my brain to jelly. >> I can see the subscribers 100 at a time, but I want to get a full list, >> preferrably with everyone's settings, and ideally as a text file or >> download. >> >> I am forced to move my list because the host has decided that they will >> count each outbound message from the list as a separate email, so I >> violate >> the 200 per hour limit every time someone posts or responds ... we have >> over 900 active members. >> >> Russell Woodford >> Geelong >> Australia >> >> Have you tried changing your "chunck-size" to be 1000 (more than the > number of members?) > > It is on the "General Options" page. > > -- > Richard Damon > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ > mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ > rdwoodford%40gmail.com > From gayleard at alice.it Thu Aug 14 14:24:54 2014 From: gayleard at alice.it (Timothy Murphy) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 14:24:54 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second step in SA Message-ID: <1459536.4BpUhlV4hU@rose.gayleard.eu> Having got SA working at last on my CentOS-7 home server, I'm thinking of improving its use for me (no-one else). 1) What is the simplest way to reject mail in chinese, russian and turkish? 2) I get some email wrongly marked spam - always from the same site. I'm tried marking this as ham (and running "sa-learn --ham") but this has surprisingly little effect. 3) Bizarrely, I seem to be getting a lot of spam from Brazil - at least I assume that is where *.br lives? I guess 1% of email from Brazil might be legit, but losing it would be a small sacrifice. I guess I could look at the sites - there may be only a couple. What is the easiest way to define email from a given site as spam? -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From ctodd at scratchspace.com Thu Aug 14 00:50:04 2014 From: ctodd at scratchspace.com (Chris Miller) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:50:04 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.18-1 not respecting add_virtualhost Message-ID: <53EBEB9C.3060806@scratchspace.com> Hello, we recently updated our (vhost patched) Mailman installation from 2.1.14 to 2.1.18-1 (https://launchpad.net/~msapiro) in order to workaround Yahoo's recent change to their SPF policy that this version addresses. Virtual mailing list hosting worked fine up until this upgrade. Here is an example of our mm_cfg.py : VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list.ourdomain.com' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'list.ourdomain.com' DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/' VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = On add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) add_virtualhost('list.customerdomain.com', 'customerdomain.com') If we change the default values above and run the below command, the available mailing lists move from the old default to the new. bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url -- All add_virtualhost configuration lines are ignored. Since withlist is able to read the changes in our mm_cfg.py, this does not strike me as an issue with our configure options which were limited : ./configure --prefix=/usr/lib/mailman --with-var-prefix=/var/lib/mailman --with-cgi-gid=apache I am unaware of a method we can use to further debug this, such as a command that would effectively dump out Mailman's configuration options, thus validating if it is even reading the add_virtualhost configuration lines. -- Regards, Chris Chris Miller President - Rocket Scientist ScratchSpace Inc. (831) 621-7928 http://www.scratchspace.com From joralemonshelly at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 23:21:10 2014 From: joralemonshelly at gmail.com (Rachelle Annechino) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:21:10 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reducing steps to confirm email address Message-ID: Hi, I have created a list that requires email confirmation. Right now, a new subscriber receives an confirmation email, clicks on the confirmation link, and is sent to a page where they must click on "Subscribe to list" to confirm their address. I would prefer it if subscriptions were confirmed immediately upon clicking the confirmation link. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks - From mark at msapiro.net Thu Aug 14 20:37:50 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:37:50 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.18-1 not respecting add_virtualhost In-Reply-To: <53EBEB9C.3060806@scratchspace.com> References: <53EBEB9C.3060806@scratchspace.com> Message-ID: <53ED01FE.2080908@msapiro.net> On 08/13/2014 03:50 PM, Chris Miller wrote: > > Hello, > we recently updated our (vhost patched) Mailman installation from > 2.1.14 to 2.1.18-1 (https://launchpad.net/~msapiro) in order to > workaround Yahoo's recent change to their SPF policy that this version > addresses. Virtual mailing list hosting worked fine up until this upgrade. > > Here is an example of our mm_cfg.py : > > VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() > DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list.ourdomain.com' > DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'list.ourdomain.com' > DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/' > VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = On > add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) > add_virtualhost('list.customerdomain.com', 'customerdomain.com') > > If we change the default values above and run the below command, the > available mailing lists move from the old default to the new. > > bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url -- > > All add_virtualhost configuration lines are ignored. Because the above command processes all lists and sets them all to the hosts corresponding to DEFAULT_URL_HOST. To run fix_url in a multiple virtual hosts environment, you must run it separately for each list with the appropriate -u option, e.g., bin/withlist -l -r fix_url customer_listname -u list.customerdomain.com > I am unaware of a method we can use to further debug this, such as a > command that would effectively dump out Mailman's configuration options, > thus validating if it is even reading the add_virtualhost configuration > lines. bin/dumpdb lists/hostname/listname/config.pck and look for web_page_url and host_name. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Aug 14 20:46:15 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:46:15 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber list In-Reply-To: References: <53EC97B5.1030805@Damon-Family.org> Message-ID: <53ED03F7.3030501@msapiro.net> On 08/14/2014 05:19 AM, Russell Woodford wrote: > Hi Richard > > Yes, I adjusted chuck_size, but it still only lists the addresses by each > letter: > http://list.server/mailman/admin/listname/members?letter=b > > Is there a way to make it show ALL on one page? Set admin_member_chunksize to a number greater than the total number of list members. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From ctodd at scratchspace.com Thu Aug 14 21:07:36 2014 From: ctodd at scratchspace.com (Chris Miller) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:07:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.18-1 not respecting add_virtualhost In-Reply-To: <53ED01FE.2080908@msapiro.net> References: <53EBEB9C.3060806@scratchspace.com> <53ED01FE.2080908@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <53ED08F8.8010100@scratchspace.com> On 8/14/2014 11:37 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 08/13/2014 03:50 PM, Chris Miller wrote: >> Here is an example of our mm_cfg.py : >> >> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() >> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list.ourdomain.com' >> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'list.ourdomain.com' >> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/' >> VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = On >> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) >> add_virtualhost('list.customerdomain.com', 'customerdomain.com') >> >> If we change the default values above and run the below command, the >> available mailing lists move from the old default to the new. >> >> bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url -- >> >> All add_virtualhost configuration lines are ignored. > > Because the above command processes all lists and sets them all to the > hosts corresponding to DEFAULT_URL_HOST. > > To run fix_url in a multiple virtual hosts environment, you must run it > separately for each list with the appropriate -u option, e.g., > > bin/withlist -l -r fix_url customer_listname -u list.customerdomain.com We did do this after I sent the original email. Unfortunately it is not changing the web_page_url in the configuration. >> I am unaware of a method we can use to further debug this, such as a >> command that would effectively dump out Mailman's configuration options, >> thus validating if it is even reading the add_virtualhost configuration >> lines. > > bin/dumpdb lists/hostname/listname/config.pck > > and look for web_page_url and host_name. > The host name is correct, but the web_page_url is wrong. Also the path we have is different than above, specifically missing a hostname directory i.e. : lists/listname/config.pck -- Regards, Chris Chris Miller President - Rocket Scientist ScratchSpace Inc. (831) 621-7928 http://www.scratchspace.com From ctodd at scratchspace.com Thu Aug 14 21:16:21 2014 From: ctodd at scratchspace.com (Chris Miller) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:16:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing configure default paths Message-ID: <53ED0B05.6080002@scratchspace.com> Having previously used RPM installations of mailman, we've run into issues in getting configure to put things in the places we would like to see them. We can specify --prefix=/usr/lib/mailman and --with-var-prefix=/var/lib/mailman but we seem to be unable to specify a log directory such as /var/log/mailman, a config directory such as /etc/mailman (this one may really be an RPM post install script thing that creates symlinks to /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman). I've also seen some differences in terms of where some directories are located, sometimes in /usr/lib/mailman, sometimes in /var/lib/mailman. The ultimate goal here is to utilize a sane and consistent directory layout across the hosts we have mailman installed on. Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated. -- Regards, Chris Chris Miller President - Rocket Scientist ScratchSpace Inc. (831) 621-7928 http://www.scratchspace.com From mark at msapiro.net Thu Aug 14 21:24:58 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:24:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second step in SA In-Reply-To: <1459536.4BpUhlV4hU@rose.gayleard.eu> References: <1459536.4BpUhlV4hU@rose.gayleard.eu> Message-ID: <53ED0D0A.3060302@msapiro.net> On 08/14/2014 05:24 AM, Timothy Murphy wrote: > Having got SA working at last on my CentOS-7 home server, > I'm thinking of improving its use for me (no-one else). > > 1) What is the simplest way to reject mail in chinese, russian > and turkish? This is not a SpamAssassin list. If you are asking about doing this in Mailman, you could see Privacy options... -> Spam filters -> header_filter_rules. You could try a rule with a regexp like ^Content-Type:.*charset=(koi8-r|iso-8859-9|windows-1254|big5|gb2312) plus maybe others, but since much mail is utf-8, this probably wouldn't be very effective. > 2) I get some email wrongly marked spam - always from the same site. > I'm tried marking this as ham (and running "sa-learn --ham") > but this has surprisingly little effect. Again, this is not a SpamAssassin list. > 3) Bizarrely, I seem to be getting a lot of spam from Brazil - > at least I assume that is where *.br lives? > I guess 1% of email from Brazil might be legit, > but losing it would be a small sacrifice. > I guess I could look at the sites - there may be only a couple. > What is the easiest way to define email from a given site as spam? In Mailman a header_filter_rules regexp like ^From:.*@[-a-z0-9.]*?\.br( |>|$) -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Aug 14 21:46:26 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:46:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reducing steps to confirm email address In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53ED1212.9040406@msapiro.net> On 08/13/2014 02:21 PM, Rachelle Annechino wrote: > Hi, > I have created a list that requires email confirmation. Right now, a new > subscriber receives an confirmation email, clicks on the confirmation link, > and is sent to a page where they must click on "Subscribe to list" to > confirm their address. I would prefer it if subscriptions were confirmed > immediately upon clicking the confirmation link. Any suggestions would be > appreciated. The user could just 'reply' to the confirmation email. To eliminate the additional web confirmation step, you could make an edited version of the verify.txt template (see the FAQ at ) and change %(confirmurl)s to %(confirmurl)s?submit=1 If you wish you could also do this for invitations by making an edited version of the invite.txt template. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Aug 14 21:47:10 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:47:10 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.18-1 not respecting add_virtualhost In-Reply-To: <53ED08F8.8010100@scratchspace.com> References: <53EBEB9C.3060806@scratchspace.com> <53ED01FE.2080908@msapiro.net> <53ED08F8.8010100@scratchspace.com> Message-ID: <53ED123E.6040307@msapiro.net> On 08/14/2014 12:07 PM, Chris Miller wrote: > On 8/14/2014 11:37 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> To run fix_url in a multiple virtual hosts environment, you must run it >> separately for each list with the appropriate -u option, e.g., >> >> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url customer_listname -u list.customerdomain.com > > > We did do this after I sent the original email. Unfortunately it is not > changing the web_page_url in the configuration. What is the output from the above command? >> bin/dumpdb lists/hostname/listname/config.pck >> >> and look for web_page_url and host_name. >> > > > The host name is correct, but the web_page_url is wrong. > > Also the path we have is different than above, specifically missing a > hostname directory i.e. : > > lists/listname/config.pck The vhost branch at creates virtual host lists with a structure of lists/hostname/listname. How did you create the list(s)? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Aug 14 21:49:37 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:49:37 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing configure default paths In-Reply-To: <53ED0B05.6080002@scratchspace.com> References: <53ED0B05.6080002@scratchspace.com> Message-ID: <53ED12D1.8090005@msapiro.net> On 08/14/2014 12:16 PM, Chris Miller wrote: > > Having previously used RPM installations of mailman, we've run into > issues in getting configure to put things in the places we would like to > see them. We can specify --prefix=/usr/lib/mailman and > --with-var-prefix=/var/lib/mailman but we seem to be unable to specify a > log directory such as /var/log/mailman, a config directory such as > /etc/mailman (this one may really be an RPM post install script thing > that creates symlinks to /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman). I've also seen some > differences in terms of where some directories are located, sometimes in > /usr/lib/mailman, sometimes in /var/lib/mailman. > > The ultimate goal here is to utilize a sane and consistent directory > layout across the hosts we have mailman installed on. > > Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated. See the FAQ at and the mailman-developers post linked therefrom. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From ctodd at scratchspace.com Thu Aug 14 22:17:51 2014 From: ctodd at scratchspace.com (Chris Miller) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:17:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.18-1 not respecting add_virtualhost In-Reply-To: <53ED123E.6040307@msapiro.net> References: <53EBEB9C.3060806@scratchspace.com> <53ED01FE.2080908@msapiro.net> <53ED08F8.8010100@scratchspace.com> <53ED123E.6040307@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <53ED196F.6060108@scratchspace.com> On 8/14/2014 12:47 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 08/14/2014 12:07 PM, Chris Miller wrote: >> On 8/14/2014 11:37 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> To run fix_url in a multiple virtual hosts environment, you must run it >>> separately for each list with the appropriate -u option, e.g., >>> >>> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url customer_listname -u list.customerdomain.com >> >> We did do this after I sent the original email. Unfortunately it is not >> changing the web_page_url in the configuration. > > What is the output from the above command? 'host_name': 'lists.customer.com', 'web_page_url': 'http://lists.ourcompany.com/mailman/', >>> bin/dumpdb lists/hostname/listname/config.pck >>> >>> and look for web_page_url and host_name. >>> >> >> The host name is correct, but the web_page_url is wrong. >> >> Also the path we have is different than above, specifically missing a >> hostname directory i.e. : >> >> lists/listname/config.pck > > The vhost branch at > creates virtual host lists with a structure of lists/hostname/listname. > How did you create the list(s)? > We originally used the vhost patched 2.1.14 from the same repository that you maintain. I believe in that version the command line with_url option was broken, but setting these up in the Mailman GUI did the right thing in terms of setting the hostnames. All lists were created prior to this upgrade. Looking at the tar archive of the previous installation, the /var/lib/mailman/lists directory did not contain one directory per list. Either things got moved around by "make install" or for reasons unclear to me those directories did not get backed up. Is this simply a matter of creating the hostname directories, moving the lists into the right hostname directories, and re-running fix_url? -- Regards, Chris Chris Miller President - Rocket Scientist ScratchSpace Inc. (831) 621-7928 http://www.scratchspace.com From gayleard at alice.it Thu Aug 14 23:28:15 2014 From: gayleard at alice.it (Timothy Murphy) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 23:28:15 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second step in SA References: <1459536.4BpUhlV4hU@rose.gayleard.eu> <53ED0D0A.3060302@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <52E53D4F224D0AA9@smtp204.alice.it> (added by postmaster@alice.it) Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 08/14/2014 05:24 AM, Timothy Murphy wrote: >> Having got SA working at last on my CentOS-7 home server, >> I'm thinking of improving its use for me (no-one else). >> >> 1) What is the simplest way to reject mail in chinese, russian >> and turkish? > This is not a SpamAssassin list. Apologies ... I was indeed intending to post to the Spamassassin list. But having made that silly mistake, dare I ask a related (sort of) mailman question: I read most of the mailman lists I am subscribed to on gmane. Why is it I can reply to some of them on the newsgroup, while others must be replied to by email? Is this a mailman option, or is it up to gmane? -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From mark at msapiro.net Thu Aug 14 23:41:32 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 14:41:32 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second step in SA In-Reply-To: <52E53D4F224D0AA9@smtp204.alice.it> (added by postmaster@alice.it) References: <1459536.4BpUhlV4hU@rose.gayleard.eu> <53ED0D0A.3060302@msapiro.net> <52E53D4F224D0AA9@smtp204.alice.it> (added by postmaster@alice.it) Message-ID: <53ED2D0C.7040308@msapiro.net> On 08/14/2014 02:28 PM, Timothy Murphy wrote: > > I read most of the mailman lists I am subscribed to on gmane. > Why is it I can reply to some of them on the newsgroup, > while others must be replied to by email? > > Is this a mailman option, or is it up to gmane? I'm not sure what the issue is. I know in some cases people read and attempt to post to mailman-users at python.org from gmane, and the post comes to the list From: and address which is not a list member, and this particular list does not accept non-member posts. The only Mailman options are what to do with posts From: non-subscribers. If gmane sends the post with your address in From: and that address is a list member, it should be accepted. It is possible that a particular list admin doesn't like gmane and has set header_filter_rules to detect some header indicating the post is from a gmane server and treat it specially. There is a list option in gmane to allow or not allow posting. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Aug 15 02:31:43 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:31:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.18-1 not respecting add_virtualhost In-Reply-To: <53ED196F.6060108@scratchspace.com> References: <53EBEB9C.3060806@scratchspace.com> <53ED01FE.2080908@msapiro.net> <53ED08F8.8010100@scratchspace.com> <53ED123E.6040307@msapiro.net> <53ED196F.6060108@scratchspace.com> Message-ID: <53ED54EF.3040301@msapiro.net> On 08/14/2014 01:17 PM, Chris Miller wrote: >> >> What is the output from the above command? > > > > 'host_name': 'lists.customer.com', > 'web_page_url': 'http://lists.ourcompany.com/mailman/', I meant the actual command output, not the result. I.e., something like Importing fix_url... Running fix_url.fix_url()... Loading list listname (locked) Saving list Finalizing but perhaps with some traceback or other info. > Is this simply a matter of creating the hostname directories, moving the > lists into the right hostname directories, and re-running fix_url? The entire purpose of the vhost branch is to add host_name subdirectories to the lists/ directory so that list names do not have to be globally unique. If this in not a requirement in your case, I suggest installing the unpatched 2.1.18-1 release. The vhost has issues. In particular bin/withlist -l does not work with hostname/listname type lists. If all your listname directories are directly under lists/ and your mm_cfg.py contains add_virtualhost('list.customerdomain.com', 'customerdomain.com') I don't know why bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname -u list.customerdomain.com would fail to set the list's web_page_url to http://list.customerdomain.com/mailman/.com/mailman/ unless there is some typo in the domain name in the withlist command or the add_virtualhost line. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From ctodd at scratchspace.com Fri Aug 15 03:06:43 2014 From: ctodd at scratchspace.com (Chris Miller) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 18:06:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.18-1 not respecting add_virtualhost In-Reply-To: <53ED54EF.3040301@msapiro.net> References: <53EBEB9C.3060806@scratchspace.com> <53ED01FE.2080908@msapiro.net> <53ED08F8.8010100@scratchspace.com> <53ED123E.6040307@msapiro.net> <53ED196F.6060108@scratchspace.com> <53ED54EF.3040301@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <53ED5D23.4070705@scratchspace.com> On 8/14/2014 5:31 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 08/14/2014 01:17 PM, Chris Miller wrote: >>> What is the output from the above command? >> >> >> 'host_name': 'lists.customer.com', >> 'web_page_url': 'http://lists.ourcompany.com/mailman/', > > I meant the actual command output, not the result. I.e., something like > > > Importing fix_url... > Running fix_url.fix_url()... > Loading list listname (locked) > Saving list > Finalizing > > but perhaps with some traceback or other info. I sent you a PM with output. >> Is this simply a matter of creating the hostname directories, moving the >> lists into the right hostname directories, and re-running fix_url? > > The entire purpose of the vhost branch is to add host_name > subdirectories to the lists/ directory so that list names do not have to > be globally unique. If this in not a requirement in your case, I suggest > installing the unpatched 2.1.18-1 release. We do want unique names, but in practice this never really worked right. All of the lists do need to maintain their own unique domain name space including access to the list, so we need to sort this out. We started with the patches from the original contributor and version 2.1.5. I think we went to 2.1.9, 2.1.14, and now the latest. It's possible that along the way issues were introduced, but this has more or less worked properly. > The vhost has issues. In particular bin/withlist -l does not work with > hostname/listname type lists. > > If all your listname directories are directly under lists/ and your > mm_cfg.py contains > > add_virtualhost('list.customerdomain.com', 'customerdomain.com') > > I don't know why I am confused as well. To restate the question is it possible I just need to create the hostname directories and reorganize everything? -- Regards, Chris Chris Miller President - Rocket Scientist ScratchSpace Inc. (831) 621-7928 http://www.scratchspace.com From mark at msapiro.net Fri Aug 15 03:21:23 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 18:21:23 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.18-1 not respecting add_virtualhost In-Reply-To: <53ED5D23.4070705@scratchspace.com> References: <53EBEB9C.3060806@scratchspace.com> <53ED01FE.2080908@msapiro.net> <53ED08F8.8010100@scratchspace.com> <53ED123E.6040307@msapiro.net> <53ED196F.6060108@scratchspace.com> <53ED54EF.3040301@msapiro.net> <53ED5D23.4070705@scratchspace.com> Message-ID: <53ED6093.9090304@msapiro.net> On 08/14/2014 06:06 PM, Chris Miller wrote: > On 8/14/2014 5:31 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > I sent you a PM with output. OK. I'll respond when it gets through my greylisting. >> The vhost has issues. In particular bin/withlist -l does not work with >> hostname/listname type lists. Actually, it does. It's been so long since I looked at this, I forgot. the command for a list whose config directory is hostname/listname is bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname at hostname -u web_hostname > I am confused as well. To restate the question is it possible I just > need to create the hostname directories and reorganize everything? That might work, but fix_url should work on a list whose directory is directly under lists/. The mystery here is it apparently doesn't. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From david at seo-gold.com Fri Aug 15 15:36:24 2014 From: david at seo-gold.com (David Law) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 14:36:24 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome email text file strips carriage returns Message-ID: <53EE0CD8.4040604@seo-gold.com> Just started using Mailman for a notification mailing list and still in the setup phase. Running Mailman 2.1.18-1 under Virtualmin/Webmin (has a module) on Centos 6.4. Wrote a tutorial how to upgrade when installed using Virtualmin at http://stallion-theme.co.uk/how-to-upgrade-mailman-mailing-list-tutorial/ Having a problem with the "Welcome email text file". When I add something like line 1 line 2 line 3 It's being converted to line 1 line 2 line 3 And this line 1 line 2 line 3 Converted to line 1 line 2 line 3 Basically stripping out single carriage returns. Found a way around this for paragraphs (second example) by adding an space between paragraphs (space character) line 1 < space line 2 < space line 3 < space But not for example 1. Have tried things like \n and \r, extra spaces, tabs, but nothing I've tried keeps several lines of text in a block. Is there a character that's counted as a carriage return? David Law -- Stallion Responsive the Best WordPress SEO Package Online http://stallion-theme.co.uk/stallion-responsive-theme/ From rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov Fri Aug 15 16:53:47 2014 From: rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov (Rosenbaum, Larry M.) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 14:53:47 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome email text file strips carriage returns In-Reply-To: <53EE0CD8.4040604@seo-gold.com> References: <53EE0CD8.4040604@seo-gold.com> Message-ID: <522894fb63be4b189dfd6248de40b09e@EXCHCS31.ornl.gov> > From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users- > bounces+rosenbaumlm=ornl.gov at python.org] On Behalf Of David Law > > Just started using Mailman for a notification mailing list and still in > the setup phase. > > Running Mailman 2.1.18-1 under Virtualmin/Webmin (has a module) on > Centos 6.4. > Wrote a tutorial how to upgrade when installed using Virtualmin at > http://stallion-theme.co.uk/how-to-upgrade-mailman-mailing-list-tutorial/ > > Having a problem with the "Welcome email text file". > > When I add something like > > line 1 > line 2 > line 3 > > It's being converted to > > line 1 line 2 line 3 Is the recipient using Outlook with the "Remove extra line breaks in plain text messages" box checked? > And this > > line 1 > > line 2 > > line 3 > > Converted to > > line 1 > line 2 > line 3 > > Basically stripping out single carriage returns. > > Found a way around this for paragraphs (second example) by adding an > space between paragraphs (space character) > > line 1 > < space > line 2 > < space > line 3 > < space > > But not for example 1. > > Have tried things like \n and \r, extra spaces, tabs, but nothing I've > tried keeps several lines of text in a block. > > Is there a character that's counted as a carriage return? > > David Law > -- > Stallion Responsive the Best WordPress SEO Package Online > http://stallion-theme.co.uk/stallion-responsive-theme/ > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman- > users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman- > users/rosenbaumlm%40ornl.gov From jeroen52 at gmail.com Fri Aug 15 16:42:34 2014 From: jeroen52 at gmail.com (Jeroen de Neef) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 16:42:34 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't submit administrative requests when forcing HTTPS Message-ID: Hi there, I would like forced HTTPS on my Mailman installation, and I have tried to use the following in my httpd.conf RewriteEngine on RewriteCond %{HTTPS} off [NC] RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/mailman$1 [L,R=permanent] But if I use that I can't submit administrative requests anymore, because when I submit them it just returns back to them and nothing has changed. Does anyone have a solution to my problem? 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Your rewrite is losing the POST data. See the FAQ at . You appear to have done step 1 but not steps 2 and 3. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Aug 15 18:26:20 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 09:26:20 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome email text file strips carriage returns In-Reply-To: <53EE0CD8.4040604@seo-gold.com> References: <53EE0CD8.4040604@seo-gold.com> Message-ID: <53EE34AC.4030505@msapiro.net> On 08/15/2014 06:36 AM, David Law wrote: > > Having a problem with the "Welcome email text file". > > When I add something like > > line 1 > line 2 > line 3 > > It's being converted to > > line 1 line 2 line 3 Did you follow the "(Details for welcome_msg)" link? If you do, I think the details there will answer your question > And this > > line 1 > > line 2 > > line 3 > > Converted to > > line 1 > line 2 > line 3 > > Basically stripping out single carriage returns. Mailman isn't doing this, As Larry suggests, this may be your mail client. > Found a way around this for paragraphs (second example) by adding an > space between paragraphs (space character) > > line 1 > < space > line 2 > < space > line 3 > < space The presence or absence of a space on an otherwise empty line shouldn't matter. > But not for example 1. You could precede the lines with a space to prevent wrapping as in Line 1 Line 2 Line 3 as opposed to Line 1 Line 2 Line 3 -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From david at seo-gold.com Sat Aug 16 00:34:03 2014 From: david at seo-gold.com (David Law) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 23:34:03 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome email text file strips carriage returns Message-ID: <53EE8ADB.4030103@seo-gold.com> > >>/ Having a problem with the "Welcome email text file". > / > Is the recipient using Outlook with the "Remove extra line breaks in plain text messages" box checked? Thanks for the responses. I'm running FireFox Thunderbird that doesn't appear to have that type of setting, if it does, doesn't have an option to turn on/off. > Did you follow the "(Details for welcome_msg)" link? If you do, I think > the details there will answer your question No, that's from the General Options page, I've not added anything to the "List-specific text prepended to new-subscriber welcome message" box so didn't associate it with what I'm working on the "Welcome email text file" page (admin URL ending in /subscribeack.txt) which has no info link to any wrap rules. Seems the rules used on the "List-specific text prepended to new-subscriber welcome message" box are also used on the contents of what you add to "Welcome email text file" page. Note that this text will be wrapped, according to the following rules: * Each paragraph is filled so that no line is longer than 70 characters. * Any line that begins with whitespace is not filled. * A blank line separates paragraphs. So the solution was add a space before the text of any line you don't want to have carriage returns stripped, like: line 1 line 2 line 3 Got it sorted :-) Thanks again. David Law -- Stallion Responsive the Best WordPress SEO Package Online http://stallion-theme.co.uk/stallion-responsive-theme/ / / From richard.ibbotson at gmail.com Fri Aug 15 22:54:31 2014 From: richard.ibbotson at gmail.com (Richard Ibbotson) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 21:54:31 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.15 Message-ID: <2487786.q30NMl4LSe@sheflug.sheflug.net> Hi I know that this has been going around the internet lately. I've done the usual web search. Not really found anything that might work for me. I've installed a CentOS 7 web server. I'm building a site around it. Mailman is my list management software. I've used it for more than ten years. Would like to keep using it. After installing the standard CentOS 7 package with yum I did..... 'cd /usr/lib/mailman' and 'bin/update'. This installed Mailman 2.1.15. Which then told me after 'service mailman start' ... " Bug in Mailman version 2.1.15. We're sorry, we hit a bug! Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. " Alright. So, I've stopped knocking my head against the desk now. /var/log/messages says... " Aug 15 16:15:01 localhost systemd: Started Session 452 of user mailman. Aug 15 16:20:01 localhost systemd: Created slice user-41.slice. Aug 15 16:20:01 localhost systemd: Starting Session 453 of user mailman. Aug 15 16:20:01 localhost systemd: Started Session 453 of user mailman. Aug 15 16:23:50 localhost systemd: Stopping GNU Mailing List Manager.." /var/log/mailman/error says.... admin(14216): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.15 -----] admin(14216): [----- Traceback ------] admin(14216): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(14216): File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main admin(14216): main() admin(14216): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 104, in main admin(14216): cgidata.getvalue('adminpw', '')): admin(14216): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py", line 234, in WebAuthenticate admin(14216): ok = self.CheckCookie(ac, user) admin(14216): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py", line 327, in CheckCookie admin(14216): return self.__checkone(c, authcontext, user) admin(14216): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py", line 333, in __checkone admin(14216): key, secret = self.AuthContextInfo(authcontext, user) admin(14216): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py", line 121, in AuthContextInfo admin(14216): sitepass = Utils.get_global_password() admin(14216): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 410, in get_global_password admin(14216): fp = open(filename) admin(14216): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/etc/mailman/adm.pw' admin(14216): [----- Python Information -----] admin(14216): sys.version = 2.7.5 (default, Jun 17 2014, 18:11:42) Can anyone make a suggestion as to how to get this to work for me ? Perhaps I can just completely remove mailman and reinstall from the default CentOS 7 package ? Is there a downgrade option so that I could fix it that way ? -- Richard Sheffield UK https://twitter.com/SleepyPenguin1 From richard.ibbotson at gmail.com Sat Aug 16 13:18:41 2014 From: richard.ibbotson at gmail.com (Richard Ibbotson) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 12:18:41 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.15 In-Reply-To: <2487786.q30NMl4LSe@sheflug.sheflug.net> References: <2487786.q30NMl4LSe@sheflug.sheflug.net> Message-ID: <1738522.cJxJQ16J37@sheflug.sheflug.net> Hi Further to the last one. I did reinstall from the CentOS RPM. Some things started to work but the list admin page stills gives me the same error. I have tried to build from source but that fails miserably. This is the first time that I've installed Mailman and so I'm not sure what I've missed. /var/log/mailman/error shows... Aug 16 07:12:25 2014 admin(17943): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ admin(17943): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.15 -----] admin(17943): [----- Traceback ------] admin(17943): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(17943): File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main admin(17943): main() admin(17943): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 104, in main admin(17943): cgidata.getvalue('adminpw', '')): admin(17943): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py", line 234, in WebAuthenticate admin(17943): ok = self.CheckCookie(ac, user) admin(17943): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py", line 327, in CheckCookie admin(17943): return self.__checkone(c, authcontext, user) admin(17943): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py", line 333, in __checkone admin(17943): key, secret = self.AuthContextInfo(authcontext, user) admin(17943): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py", line 121, in AuthContextInfo admin(17943): sitepass = Utils.get_global_password() admin(17943): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 410, in get_global_password admin(17943): fp = open(filename) admin(17943): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/etc/mailman/adm.pw' admin(17943): [----- Python Information -----] admin(17943): sys.version = 2.7.5 (default, Jun 17 2014, 18:11:42) [GCC 4.8.2 20140120 (Red Hat 4.8.2-16)] admin(17943): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python admin(17943): sys.prefix = /usr admin(17943): sys.exec_prefix = /usr admin(17943): sys.path = ['/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib', '/usr/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/mailman/scripts', '/usr/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib64/python27.zip', '/us admin(17943): sys.platform = linux2 admin(17943): [----- Environment Variables -----] admin(17943): CONTEXT_DOCUMENT_ROOT: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/ admin(17943): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.4.6 (CentOS) OpenSSL/1.0.1e- fips mod_fcgid/2.3.9 PHP/5.4.16 admin(17943): CONTEXT_PREFIX: /mailman/ -- Richard Sheffield From mark at msapiro.net Sat Aug 16 18:00:13 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 09:00:13 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome email text file strips carriage returns In-Reply-To: <53EE8ADB.4030103@seo-gold.com> References: <53EE8ADB.4030103@seo-gold.com> Message-ID: <53EF800D.1020102@msapiro.net> On 08/15/2014 03:34 PM, David Law wrote: > > Seems the rules used on the "List-specific text prepended to > new-subscriber welcome message" box are also used on the contents of > what you add to "Welcome email text file" page. That is correct. Both the welcome_msg text and the "Welcome email text file" are processed by the Mailman.Utils.wrap() function and wrapped according to those rules. > Got it sorted :-) Good. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Aug 16 18:16:44 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 09:16:44 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.15 In-Reply-To: <1738522.cJxJQ16J37@sheflug.sheflug.net> References: <2487786.q30NMl4LSe@sheflug.sheflug.net> <1738522.cJxJQ16J37@sheflug.sheflug.net> Message-ID: <53EF83EC.2000906@msapiro.net> On 08/16/2014 04:18 AM, Richard Ibbotson wrote: > > I'm not sure what I've missed. /var/log/mailman/error shows... > > > Aug 16 07:12:25 2014 admin(17943): > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > admin(17943): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.15 -----] > admin(17943): [----- Traceback ------] > admin(17943): Traceback (most recent call last): ... > admin(17943): fp = open(filename) > admin(17943): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: > '/etc/mailman/adm.pw' /etc/mailman/adm.pw must be readable by Mailman's group (I think 'mailman' in the CentOS package. This may be a file or a symlink to something like /var/lib/mailman/data/adm.pw. In any case, the target needs to be group mailman and mode 0640. Running sudo bin/check_perms -f should fix this. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From richard.ibbotson at gmail.com Sat Aug 16 21:38:30 2014 From: richard.ibbotson at gmail.com (Richard Ibbotson) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 20:38:30 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.15 In-Reply-To: <53EF83EC.2000906@msapiro.net> References: <2487786.q30NMl4LSe@sheflug.sheflug.net> <1738522.cJxJQ16J37@sheflug.sheflug.net> <53EF83EC.2000906@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <12923731.ZLWQLRE96T@sheflug.sheflug.net> On Saturday 16 August 2014 09:16:44 Mark Sapiro wrote: > This may be a file or a symlink to something like > /var/lib/mailman/data/adm.pw. In any case, the target needs to be > group mailman and mode 0640. > > Running > > sudo bin/check_perms -f > > should fix this. Ah... That was the one. I thought it might be a permissions problem but couldn't quite work out the -f part. All seems to be working now :) I even managed to upgrade to Mailman 2.1.8. Looking forward to Mailman 3. Whenever that happens. Thank you. -- Richard Sheffield https://twitter.com/SleepyPenguin1 From mark at bradakis.com Sun Aug 17 00:43:48 2014 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 16:43:48 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is new Message-ID: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> S I finally decide to sit down and try to figure out why http://www.team.net/mailman/admin and http://autox.team.net/mailman/admin return different results, even though it is the same machine. Checking on some list configs, I do bin/config_list -o - and get this from one list, but not others: [...] # href="?VARHELP=privacy/sender/dmarc_moderation_action"> # dmarc_moderation_action applies to this message with an action other # than Accept, that action rather than this is applied Traceback (most recent call last): File "./config_list", line 364, in main() File "./config_list", line 357, in main do_output(listname, outfile) File "./config_list", line 128, in do_output do_list_categories(mlist, k, None, outfp) File "./config_list", line 180, in do_list_categories value = getattr(mlist, varname) File "/local/mailman/teamnet/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__ raise AttributeError, name AttributeError: from_is_list So I go to the admin page for that list and get the "We've hit a bug page." Fun. Any quick fixes to the config.pck file? mjb. From mark at bradakis.com Sun Aug 17 01:17:35 2014 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 17:17:35 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is new In-Reply-To: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> References: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <53EFE68F.7020200@bradakis.com> As an added bit of info, the first 7 of 67 lists, in alphabetical order all have this problem. Maybe I just need to reinstall 2.1.18-1 mjb. From mark at msapiro.net Sun Aug 17 02:13:40 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 17:13:40 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is new In-Reply-To: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> References: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <53EFF3B4.9030500@msapiro.net> On 08/16/2014 03:43 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > S I finally decide to sit down and try to figure out why > http://www.team.net/mailman/admin > and http://autox.team.net/mailman/admin return different results, even > though it is the same machine. See the FAQ at . > Checking on some list configs, I do bin/config_list -o - and > get this from one list, > but not others: > > [...] > # href="?VARHELP=privacy/sender/dmarc_moderation_action"> > # dmarc_moderation_action applies to this message with an action other > # than Accept, that action rather than this is applied > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "./config_list", line 364, in > main() > File "./config_list", line 357, in main > do_output(listname, outfile) > File "./config_list", line 128, in do_output > do_list_categories(mlist, k, None, outfp) > File "./config_list", line 180, in do_list_categories > value = getattr(mlist, varname) > File "/local/mailman/teamnet/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in > __getattr__ > raise AttributeError, name > AttributeError: from_is_list > > > > So I go to the admin page for that list and get the "We've hit a bug page." > > Fun. Any quick fixes to the config.pck file? There is an issue with the list's data_version attribute vs. Mailman.Version.DATA_FILE_VERSION. When the from_is_list and other new attributes were added, Mailman.Version.DATA_FILE_VERSION was incremented to make it greater than the list's data_version attribute which in turn will cause the lists to be updated the first time they are instantiated. Perhaps you had some other patches that incremented Mailman.Version.DATA_FILE_VERSION, so that the list's data_version attribute was not < Mailman.Version.DATA_FILE_VERSION causing the update to be skipped. The way to fix this is to set Mailman.Version.DATA_FILE_VERSION to a value greater than the data_version attribute of the lists. First run this bash script for l in `/path/to/mailman/bin/list_lists --bare` do /path/to/mailman/bin/dumpdb /path/to/mailman/lists/$l/config.pck \ | grep data_version done This will print the data_version for each list. If N is the largest such value, edit Mailman/Version.py to change the line DATA_FILE_VERSION = 104 to set a value > N. Then visit the listinfo overview page which should update all the lists. Then so this doesn't happen again, set DATA_FILE_VERSION back to 104 in Mailman/Version.py and create a file containing the single line mlist.data_version = 104 and run this bash script cd /path/to/mailman/bin/ for l in `./list_lists --bare` do ./config_list -i /path/to/above/file $l done That should fix things. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at bradakis.com Sun Aug 17 04:20:21 2014 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 20:20:21 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is new In-Reply-To: <53EFF3B4.9030500@msapiro.net> References: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> <53EFF3B4.9030500@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <53F01165.8060607@bradakis.com> > > There is an issue with the list's data_version attribute vs. Mailman.Version.DATA_FILE_VERSION. When the from_is_list and other new attributes were added, Mailman.Version.DATA_FILE_VERSION was incremented to make it greater than the list's data_version attribute which in turn will cause the lists to be updated the first time they are instantiated. > > Perhaps you had some other patches that incremented Mailman.Version.DATA_FILE_VERSION, so that the list's data_version attribute was not < Mailman.Version.DATA_FILE_VERSION causing the update to be skipped. > > The way to fix this is to set Mailman.Version.DATA_FILE_VERSION to a value greater than the data_version attribute of the lists. > > First run this bash script > > for l in `/path/to/mailman/bin/list_lists --bare` > do /path/to/mailman/bin/dumpdb /path/to/mailman/lists/$l/config.pck \ > | grep data_version > done > > This will print the data_version for each list. If N is the largest such value, edit Mailman/Version.py to change the line > > DATA_FILE_VERSION = 104 > > to set a value > N. Then visit the listinfo overview page which should update all the lists. > > Then so this doesn't happen again, set DATA_FILE_VERSION back to 104 in Mailman/Version.py and create a file containing the single line > > mlist.data_version = 104 > > and run this bash script > > cd /path/to/mailman/bin/ > for l in `./list_lists --bare` > do ./config_list -i /path/to/above/file $l > done > > That should fix things. > The problem lists all have 98 as the data_version. Config_list does not work, for input or output. mjb. From mark at msapiro.net Sun Aug 17 04:48:40 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 19:48:40 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is new In-Reply-To: <53F01165.8060607@bradakis.com> References: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> <53EFF3B4.9030500@msapiro.net> <53F01165.8060607@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <53F01808.1020300@msapiro.net> On 08/16/2014 07:20 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > > The problem lists all have 98 as the data_version. Config_list does not > work, for input or output. I understood that config_list wouldn't work. That's why I suggested that you need first to fix the lists by changing DATA_FILE_VERSION in Mailman/Version.py and then instantiating the lists to fix them. However, There would seem to be other issues. You say the problem lists all have data_version = 98 (Mailman 2.1.14). What do the other lists have? What is DATA_FILE_VERSION in Mailman/Version.py? If it is > 98 an Mailman/versions.py is at least as new as 2.1.16, the lists should get a from_is_list attribute and have data_version updated when they are instantiated. Perhaps reinstalling 2.1.18-1 would help, as something seems amiss. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at bradakis.com Sun Aug 17 05:04:42 2014 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 21:04:42 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is new In-Reply-To: <53F01808.1020300@msapiro.net> References: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> <53EFF3B4.9030500@msapiro.net> <53F01165.8060607@bradakis.com> <53F01808.1020300@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <53F01BCA.4060900@bradakis.com> Mark Sapiro wrote: > > > I understood that config_list wouldn't work. That's why I suggested that you need first to fix the lists by changing DATA_FILE_VERSION in Mailman/Version.py and then instantiating the lists to fix them. I guess I am not understanding what you mean by instantiating existing lists. All the others have version 104, as does the Version.py file. mjb. From mark at msapiro.net Sun Aug 17 05:16:16 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 20:16:16 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is new In-Reply-To: <53F01BCA.4060900@bradakis.com> References: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> <53EFF3B4.9030500@msapiro.net> <53F01165.8060607@bradakis.com> <53F01808.1020300@msapiro.net> <53F01BCA.4060900@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <53F01E80.9030307@msapiro.net> On 08/16/2014 08:04 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > > I guess I am not understanding what you mean by instantiating existing > lists. All the others have version 104, as does the Version.py file. Anything you do which accesses a list's config.pck via Mailman/MailList.py (which is pretty much any Mailman process other than bin/dumpdb) will test if Mailman.Version.DATA_FILE_VERSION is greater than the list's data_version and if so, will run Mailman.versions.Update() to update the list configuration, add new attributes, etc. Clearly this is not happening in your case because the from_is_list attribute is not being added. Does your Mailman/versions.py contain PreferStored('author_is_list', 'from_is_list', mm_cfg.DEFAULT_FROM_IS_LIST) at lines 317,318? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at bradakis.com Sun Aug 17 05:34:09 2014 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 21:34:09 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is new In-Reply-To: <53F01E80.9030307@msapiro.net> References: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> <53EFF3B4.9030500@msapiro.net> <53F01165.8060607@bradakis.com> <53F01808.1020300@msapiro.net> <53F01BCA.4060900@bradakis.com> <53F01E80.9030307@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <53F022B1.8080000@bradakis.com> Mark Sapiro wrote: > > Anything you do which accesses a list's config.pck via Mailman/MailList.py (which is pretty much any Mailman process other than bin/dumpdb) will test if Mailman.Version.DATA_FILE_VERSION is greater than the list's data_version and if so, will run Mailman.versions.Update() to update the list configuration, add new attributes, etc. > > Clearly this is not happening in your case because the from_is_list attribute is not being added. Indeed. I can go to the listinfo page, click on the archives for the bad lists, browse the archives, no problem. Go to get a password reminder mailed to me, it claims to work but nothing is actually sent out. > > Does your Mailman/versions.py contain > > PreferStored('author_is_list', 'from_is_list', > mm_cfg.DEFAULT_FROM_IS_LIST) > > at lines 317,318? > Yes. mjb. From mark at msapiro.net Sun Aug 17 15:45:18 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 06:45:18 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is new In-Reply-To: <53F022B1.8080000@bradakis.com> References: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> <53EFF3B4.9030500@msapiro.net> <53F01165.8060607@bradakis.com> <53F01808.1020300@msapiro.net> <53F01BCA.4060900@bradakis.com> <53F01E80.9030307@msapiro.net> <53F022B1.8080000@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <53F0B1EE.5060004@msapiro.net> On 08/16/2014 08:34 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > > Indeed. I can go to the listinfo page, click on the archives for the bad > lists, browse the archives, no problem. And after doing this is the list's data_version still 98? If so, I suspect some permissions issue or something like that? What's in Mailman's 'error' log? > Go to get a password reminder mailed to me, it claims to work but > nothing is actually sent out. This can happen if the email address you entered is not a list member. What's in Mailman's 'mischief' log? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun Aug 17 15:59:33 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 06:59:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is new In-Reply-To: <53F0B1EE.5060004@msapiro.net> References: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> <53EFF3B4.9030500@msapiro.net> <53F01165.8060607@bradakis.com> <53F01808.1020300@msapiro.net> <53F01BCA.4060900@bradakis.com> <53F01E80.9030307@msapiro.net> <53F022B1.8080000@bradakis.com> <53F0B1EE.5060004@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <53F0B545.9010900@msapiro.net> On 08/17/2014 06:45 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 08/16/2014 08:34 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: >> >> Indeed. I can go to the listinfo page, click on the archives for the bad >> lists, browse the archives, no problem. > > > And after doing this is the list's data_version still 98? If so, I > suspect some permissions issue or something like that? Can you go to the admin page for the list? If so, does the from_is_list setting appear there? Have you run bin/check_perms? Does your Mailman web UI go to the right installation? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at bradakis.com Sun Aug 17 20:32:52 2014 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 12:32:52 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is new In-Reply-To: <53F0B1EE.5060004@msapiro.net> References: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> <53EFF3B4.9030500@msapiro.net> <53F01165.8060607@bradakis.com> <53F01808.1020300@msapiro.net> <53F01BCA.4060900@bradakis.com> <53F01E80.9030307@msapiro.net> <53F022B1.8080000@bradakis.com> <53F0B1EE.5060004@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <53F0F554.8020405@bradakis.com> Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 08/16/2014 08:34 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: >> >> Indeed. I can go to the listinfo page, click on the archives for the bad >> lists, browse the archives, no problem. > > > And after doing this is the list's data_version still 98? If so, I suspect some permissions issue or something like that? Yes, the data_version remains unchanged. The first thing I did was run check_perms, nothing showed up there. > What's in Mailman's 'error' log? Actually something did change. Instead of 'from_is_list' the error now is 'dmarc_moderation_action' > > >> Go to get a password reminder mailed to me, it claims to work but >> nothing is actually sent out. > > > This can happen if the email address you entered is not a list member. What's in Mailman's 'mischief' log? I used an address I know is a list member, nothing related to it in mischief log. The last time I had a really weird problem like this it turned out to be some bad disk blocks in the mailman tree. I may take the machine to single user and do some disk checks. mjb. From mark at bradakis.com Sun Aug 17 20:39:20 2014 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 12:39:20 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is new In-Reply-To: <53F0B545.9010900@msapiro.net> References: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> <53EFF3B4.9030500@msapiro.net> <53F01165.8060607@bradakis.com> <53F01808.1020300@msapiro.net> <53F01BCA.4060900@bradakis.com> <53F01E80.9030307@msapiro.net> <53F022B1.8080000@bradakis.com> <53F0B1EE.5060004@msapiro.net> <53F0B545.9010900@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <53F0F6D8.3080005@bradakis.com> Mark Sapiro wrote: > > Can you go to the admin page for the list? If so, does the from_is_list setting appear there? Sort of. I get the login page for the list just fine, type in the password then get the 'hit a bug' page. Error log shows: admin(2802): File "/local/mailman/teamnet/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__ admin(2802): raise AttributeError, name admin(2802): AttributeError: from_is_list mjb. From mark at msapiro.net Sun Aug 17 23:29:34 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 14:29:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is new In-Reply-To: <53F0F554.8020405@bradakis.com> References: <53EFDEA4.2020401@bradakis.com> <53EFF3B4.9030500@msapiro.net> <53F01165.8060607@bradakis.com> <53F01808.1020300@msapiro.net> <53F01BCA.4060900@bradakis.com> <53F01E80.9030307@msapiro.net> <53F022B1.8080000@bradakis.com> <53F0B1EE.5060004@msapiro.net> <53F0F554.8020405@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <56a80367-7748-48d5-ad18-934cf9d01a85@email.android.com> On August 17, 2014 11:32:52 AM PDT, Mark J Bradakis wrote: >Mark Sapiro wrote: >> On 08/16/2014 08:34 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: >>> >>> Indeed. I can go to the listinfo page, click on the archives for the >bad >>> lists, browse the archives, no problem. >> >> >> And after doing this is the list's data_version still 98? If so, I >suspect some permissions issue or something like that? > >Yes, the data_version remains unchanged. The first thing I did was run >check_perms, nothing showed up there. > >> What's in Mailman's 'error' log? > >Actually something did change. Instead of 'from_is_list' the error now >is 'dmarc_moderation_action' >> >> >>> Go to get a password reminder mailed to me, it claims to work but >>> nothing is actually sent out. >> >> >> This can happen if the email address you entered is not a list >member. What's in Mailman's 'mischief' log? > >I used an address I know is a list member, nothing related to it in >mischief log. > >The last time I had a really weird problem like this it turned out to >be some bad disk blocks in the mailman tree. >I may take the machine to single user and do some disk checks. This is really weird. A few things come to mind. Perhaps data_version in the file is not a integer but Is a string or something with some white space that compares greater than 10 4. Maybe there is some hardware or system disk caching problem. If you installed from a package you might contact the packager. Otherwise you might compare your Mailman/MailList.py and Mailman/versions.py with the ones in the source tarball. I am now going off line for 2 weeks. -- Mark Sapiro Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. [Unpaid endorsement] From pknowles at tpnsolutions.com Mon Aug 18 01:55:52 2014 From: pknowles at tpnsolutions.com (Peter Knowles) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 16:55:52 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redacted Email Address in Feedback Loop Message-ID: Hi, What is the best way to deal with feedback loop messages where the provider has redacted the email address of the party who filed the complaint? Does Mailman have any built in methods on dealing with this issue? At the moment we "force" a custom footer on all messages which includes the recipients email address, and the list they belong to, but recently a few ISPs have even been redacting data in that part of the message. Thanks in advance! Best Regards, Peter Knowles TPN Solutions Email: pknowles at tpnsolutions.com Phone: 604-229-0715 Skype: tpnsupport Website: http://www.tpnsolutions.com From pshute at nuw.org.au Mon Aug 18 02:28:43 2014 From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:28:43 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with Outlook - was Erratic mail delivery times In-Reply-To: <53CDFC8E.60809@msapiro.net> References: <61377823-4AF4-406C-81F8-6BC9E3D5F240@nuw.org.au> <0bc710f0-57df-4ad4-bbad-ba9ee80cdcc1@email.android.com> <53C48A1E.8020802@att.net> <87lhrv2kxq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53C87661.3080909@msapiro.net> <1B9BECA9-0F0D-4FA3-8503-3B7843AA2E1E@nathanson.org> <6762DDC5-F1E8-4046-8937-2477CD8FD65C@nathanson.org> <8006A547-1CE8-4596-8204-8A55C821EA3A@nuw.org.au> <877g36p4z9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53CDFC8E.60809@msapiro.net> Message-ID: We're now on a new list server, which is running v2.1.18-1. We've set from_is_list to munged, and it's now sending list messages from the list, and putting the original sender's address in Reply To as expected. On my iPad, Reply sends a message back to the original sender, which is what we want. Reply To sends a message to both the original sender and also the list, which is what we want. Apparently gmail web interface works the same way, but Outlook doesn't. Outlook sends Reply All to the original sender and anyone else that was Cc'd, but not the list. Is there a fix? Which other variables affect this? Peter Shute > -----Original Message----- > From: Mailman-Users > [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org.au at python.org] > On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro > Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2014 3:54 PM > To: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times > > On 07/21/2014 06:50 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > > > > That was my impression too. It sounds less disruptive, but > I wonder if the resulting variability of behaviour of Reply > and Reply all would just cause confusion. > > > In 2.1.18-1, with minor exceptions, 'reply' and 'reply all' > do the same things on a munged message as on a non-munged > message. The exceptions are due to the fact that in 2.1.18-1 > the Munge From action always puts the original From: in > Reply-To: so the original From: is always somewhere. The > implication of this is that with list settings > first_strip_reply_to = Yes and reply_goes_to_list = This > List, in the unmunged case, reply goes only to the list and > in the munged case, it goes to the list and the original > From: which may mean the original > From: gets a dupe or only a direct and not a list copy. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: > http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4 0nuw.org.au > From pshute at nuw.org.au Mon Aug 18 04:46:30 2014 From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 12:46:30 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with Outlook - was Erratic mail delivery times In-Reply-To: References: <61377823-4AF4-406C-81F8-6BC9E3D5F240@nuw.org.au> <0bc710f0-57df-4ad4-bbad-ba9ee80cdcc1@email.android.com> <53C48A1E.8020802@att.net> <87lhrv2kxq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53C87661.3080909@msapiro.net> <1B9BECA9-0F0D-4FA3-8503-3B7843AA2E1E@nathanson.org> <6762DDC5-F1E8-4046-8937-2477CD8FD65C@nathanson.org> <8006A547-1CE8-4596-8204-8A55C821EA3A@nuw.org.au> <877g36p4z9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53CDFC8E.60809@msapiro.net> Message-ID: Further unwanted Reply All behaviour - a Lotus Notes user says when he sends a reply with Reply All, the list bounce address is Cc'd. It does include the list address too, which is good. Can it cause any problems to Cc the list bounce address? Peter Shute > -----Original Message----- > From: Mailman-Users > [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org.au at python.org] > On Behalf Of Peter Shute > Sent: Monday, 18 August 2014 10:29 AM > To: 'Mark Sapiro'; mailman-users at python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with > Outlook - was Erratic mail delivery times > > We're now on a new list server, which is running v2.1.18-1. > We've set from_is_list to munged, and it's now sending list > messages from the list, and putting the original sender's > address in Reply To as expected. > > On my iPad, Reply sends a message back to the original > sender, which is what we want. Reply To sends a message to > both the original sender and also the list, which is what we want. > > Apparently gmail web interface works the same way, but > Outlook doesn't. Outlook sends Reply All to the original > sender and anyone else that was Cc'd, but not the list. > > Is there a fix? Which other variables affect this? > > Peter Shute > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mailman-Users > > [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org.au at python.org] > > On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro > > Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2014 3:54 PM > > To: mailman-users at python.org > > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times > > > > On 07/21/2014 06:50 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > > > > > > That was my impression too. It sounds less disruptive, but > > I wonder if the resulting variability of behaviour of Reply > and Reply > > all would just cause confusion. > > > > > > In 2.1.18-1, with minor exceptions, 'reply' and 'reply all' > > do the same things on a munged message as on a non-munged > message. The > > exceptions are due to the fact that in 2.1.18-1 the Munge > From action > > always puts the original From: in > > Reply-To: so the original From: is always somewhere. The > implication > > of this is that with list settings first_strip_reply_to = Yes and > > reply_goes_to_list = This List, in the unmunged case, reply > goes only > > to the list and in the munged case, it goes to the list and the > > original > > From: which may mean the original > > From: gets a dupe or only a direct and not a list copy. > > > > -- > > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense > - B. Dylan > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: > > http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > > Unsubscribe: > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4 > 0nuw.org.au > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: > http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4 0nuw.org.au > From stephen at xemacs.org Mon Aug 18 05:33:43 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 12:33:43 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redacted Email Address in Feedback Loop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87y4umfp48.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Peter Knowles writes: > What is the best way to deal with feedback loop messages where the > provider has redacted the email address of the party who filed the > complaint? What do you want to do with this information? Just unsubscribe that user? I'd say pass the buck back to the provider. First, you need to be sure that you have not passed any spam, and second that your mailman host DKIM signs all its mail. You must have a subscribe and confirm-by-email process. If all that is true, then you can make a reasonable case that the user really just wants to unsubscribe, and did subscribe themselves in the first place. Write to the postmaster at the provider (or whoever the contact is), and send them your unsubscribe link, and tell them to pass it on to the user. If they won't do that, write a "more in sorrow than in anger" message to the list explaining that Beavis and Butthead ISP is about to ban your list due to spurious complaints, that they won't help their users unsubscribe and conceal the information required for the list admin to do it, and so you are setting all of their users to nomail. Then do it. You're not hurting anybody, because if you don't do this, the ISP will ban you and they're effectively off the list anyway. This isn't 100% effective, because it's quite possible that the subscribed address is in a different domain, and is just forwarding to B&B.net. If you're actually sending commercial email (solicited, of course!) and that would hit your bottom line, I'm sorry, but you're screwed. You just keep going and hope they don't ban you. > Does Mailman have any built in methods on dealing with this issue? No. This is a people problem, and the broken brains are not at your site. There's no automatic fix. > At the moment we "force" a custom footer on all messages which > includes the recipients email address, and the list they belong to, > but recently a few ISPs have even been redacting data in that part > of the message. Since you have full personalization set on, each recipient is getting a different message, and therefore each message goes in a separate SMTP transaction, and will have a separate Received line (for receipt *from* Mailman) and a separate MTA queue number. Your MTA log should be able to tell you where it went. If they're redacting the trace headers, well, again, there's nothing you can do. Regards, From stephen at xemacs.org Mon Aug 18 05:54:27 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 12:54:27 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with Outlook In-Reply-To: References: <61377823-4AF4-406C-81F8-6BC9E3D5F240@nuw.org.au> <0bc710f0-57df-4ad4-bbad-ba9ee80cdcc1@email.android.com> <53C48A1E.8020802@att.net> <87lhrv2kxq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53C87661.3080909@msapiro.net> <1B9BECA9-0F0D-4FA3-8503-3B7843AA2E1E@nathanson.org> <6762DDC5-F1E8-4046-8937-2477CD8FD65C@nathanson.org> <8006A547-1CE8-4596-8204-8A55C821EA3A@nuw.org.au> <877g36p4z9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53CDFC8E.60809@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <87wqa6fo5o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Peter Shute writes: > We're now on a new list server, which is running v2.1.18-1. We've > set from_is_list to munged, and it's now sending list messages from > the list, and putting the original sender's address in Reply To as > expected. > > On my iPad, Reply sends a message back to the original sender, > which is what we want. Reply To sends a message to both the > original sender and also the list, which is what we want. > > Apparently gmail web interface works the same way, but Outlook > doesn't. Outlook sends Reply All to the original sender and anyone > else that was Cc'd, but not the list. > > Is there a fix? Which other variables affect this? No, there is no fix. Both behaviors are arguably RFC conforming (the RFC doesn't specify "Reply to All" behavior of MUAs, so the MUAs can do whatever they want), and Outlook's is arguably more conformant to the spirit of the RFC, since according to the RFC the configuration From: list at example.com Reply-To: person at example.org has the semantics "the entity using the mailbox 'list at example.com' requests that you address mail intended for the entity to the mailbox 'person at example.org'". Since HMS Reply-To-Munging-Considered-Useful has long since sailed, I agree that the AppleMail/GMail behavior is more useful, but good luck getting existing installations of Outlook patched to do what's useful. This ambiguity is I why I find the setting dmarc_moderation_action to 'wrap' to be preferable, since all relevant information is preserved on the "inside" message. However, folks using AppleMail on iOS (and maybe Mac OS too) have complained about this setting, and it's not intuitive to most subscribers. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Regards, From stephen at xemacs.org Mon Aug 18 06:32:59 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 13:32:59 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with Outlook - was Erratic mail delivery times In-Reply-To: References: <61377823-4AF4-406C-81F8-6BC9E3D5F240@nuw.org.au> <0bc710f0-57df-4ad4-bbad-ba9ee80cdcc1@email.android.com> <53C48A1E.8020802@att.net> <87lhrv2kxq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53C87661.3080909@msapiro.net> <1B9BECA9-0F0D-4FA3-8503-3B7843AA2E1E@nathanson.org> <6762DDC5-F1E8-4046-8937-2477CD8FD65C@nathanson.org> <8006A547-1CE8-4596-8204-8A55C821EA3A@nuw.org.au> <877g36p4z9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53CDFC8E.60809@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <87sikufmdg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Peter Shute writes: > Further unwanted Reply All behaviour - a Lotus Notes user says when > he sends a reply with Reply All, the list bounce address is > Cc'd. It does include the list address too, which is good. > > Can it cause any problems to Cc the list bounce address? Mark is on vacation for two weeks, so you'll probably have to wait for a definitive answer. I believe that Mailman is smart enough to recognize that an ordinary post is not a bounce, so probably no harm is done. However, if the post happens to have a three-digit number starting with 4 or 5 near the start, I suppose it could be misclassified. Either way, I'd keep an eye on user bounce counts. I think Mark has such a script in his contrib site (sorry, don't recall the URL). You can check for disabled members with "bin/list_members -n bybounce". Steve From pshute at nuw.org.au Mon Aug 18 06:45:35 2014 From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 14:45:35 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with Outlook In-Reply-To: <87wqa6fo5o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <61377823-4AF4-406C-81F8-6BC9E3D5F240@nuw.org.au> <0bc710f0-57df-4ad4-bbad-ba9ee80cdcc1@email.android.com> <53C48A1E.8020802@att.net> <87lhrv2kxq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53C87661.3080909@msapiro.net> <1B9BECA9-0F0D-4FA3-8503-3B7843AA2E1E@nathanson.org> <6762DDC5-F1E8-4046-8937-2477CD8FD65C@nathanson.org> <8006A547-1CE8-4596-8204-8A55C821EA3A@nuw.org.au> <877g36p4z9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53CDFC8E.60809@msapiro.net> <87wqa6fo5o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > Peter Shute writes: > > > We're now on a new list server, which is running v2.1.18-1. We've > > set from_is_list to munged, and it's now sending list messages from > > the list, and putting the original sender's address in Reply To as > > expected. > > > > On my iPad, Reply sends a message back to the original sender, > > which is what we want. Reply To sends a message to both the > > original sender and also the list, which is what we want. > > > > Apparently gmail web interface works the same way, but Outlook > > doesn't. Outlook sends Reply All to the original sender and anyone > > else that was Cc'd, but not the list. > > > > Is there a fix? Which other variables affect this? > > No, there is no fix. Thanks, I'll stop looking for one! > This ambiguity is I why I find the setting dmarc_moderation_action to > 'wrap' to be preferable, since all relevant information is preserved > on the "inside" message. However, folks using AppleMail on iOS (and > maybe Mac OS too) have complained about this setting, and it's not > intuitive to most subscribers. I don't think that's a good alternative then. > Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. That's fine, I just want to know what the options are without having to experiment with all sorts of clients. If we set from_is_list to No, how does the list behave when yahoo.com emails arrive? I'm under the impression it will send them to the moderation queue, and will offer extra options like munging. Is that correct, or am I confused? Do we have to change any other settings to make that happen? Looking now at the description of dmarc_moderation_action, I think I'm confused. Peter Shute From stephen at xemacs.org Mon Aug 18 08:34:46 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 15:34:46 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with Outlook In-Reply-To: References: <61377823-4AF4-406C-81F8-6BC9E3D5F240@nuw.org.au> <0bc710f0-57df-4ad4-bbad-ba9ee80cdcc1@email.android.com> <53C48A1E.8020802@att.net> <87lhrv2kxq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53C87661.3080909@msapiro.net> <1B9BECA9-0F0D-4FA3-8503-3B7843AA2E1E@nathanson.org> <6762DDC5-F1E8-4046-8937-2477CD8FD65C@nathanson.org> <8006A547-1CE8-4596-8204-8A55C821EA3A@nuw.org.au> <877g36p4z9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53CDFC8E.60809@msapiro.net> <87wqa6fo5o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87ppfyfgqh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Peter Shute writes: > If we set from_is_list to No, how does the list behave when > yahoo.com emails arrive? That depends on the setting of dmarc_moderation_action. If it is set to Accept, it just passes them through, and lets the destination decide what to do. Almost certainly you will get many bounces. > I'm under the impression it will send them to the moderation queue, > and will offer extra options like munging. No. Neither of these options can cause a message to end up in the moderation queue as currently specified. The logic is that the only reason for a per-message choice of policy is that the moderator is willing to edit some messages from Yahoo! addresses, and will reject or discard others. This seems like a very unusual case to us, as on lists with enough posters from those domains this should significantly increase moderator burden, as well as be likely to attract *strong* objections from folks whose messages get "less favorable" treatment. It is "easily" worked around by simply flipping the moderation bit on members subscribed with yahoo.com or aol.com addresses. If somebody wants that option, it would be easy to script. In fact, the script could automoderate any domain with "p=reject" as of the time it was run. (Note: auto-unmoderation is problematic without further changes to Mailman, as we don't know *why* the address was moderated. You wouldn't want some miscreant with stalker tendencies unmoderated because her domain decided to behave like a responsible citizen.) Adding options to munge or wrap to the moderator's control panel should not be hard, but they aren't available now. Note, however, that "Discard all messages tagged Defer" would now be more dangerous than ever because you've added a large class of messages that should not get trashed to the moderation queue. Overall, I don't think it's worth it. However, if you have a use case, feel free to request the enhancement. > Looking now at the description of dmarc_moderation_action, I think > I'm confused. I think what you missed is that all DMARC moderation is done by a robot; no human intervention involved. That is, when dmarc_moderation_action is set to something other than Accept, it looks up the From domain's current DMARC policy using the DNS. If this policy is "p=reject", Mailman will *automatically* take an action, which may be Munge From, Wrap Message, Reject, or Discard. (dmarc_quarantine_moderation_action works the same way for domains with policy "p=quarantine".) This means that only messages from badly-behaved domains get altered in ways which make life difficult for readers. For me, this is great -- it gives my *very* few "p=reject" members a strong incentive to subscribe an address from a good citizen domain. :-) Obviously, most admins are nowhere near so fortunate, so I can't recommend making such a rationale public. ;-) From fmouse at fmp.com Mon Aug 18 16:53:11 2014 From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 09:53:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redacted Email Address in Feedback Loop In-Reply-To: <87y4umfp48.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87y4umfp48.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <1408373591.59892.14.camel@pudina.fmp.com> On Mon, 2014-08-18 at 12:33 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Peter Knowles writes: > > > What is the best way to deal with feedback loop messages where the > > provider has redacted the email address of the party who filed the > > complaint? > > What do you want to do with this information? Just unsubscribe that > user? I'd say pass the buck back to the provider. I've had to deal with this with AOL subscribers. I have scripts which try to pull the VERPed recipient address out of various headers in the feedback loop messages and unsubscribe the complaining subscriber, but the redaction algorithm is inconsistent, which makes it difficult. I ended up hacking the MM source to create an AES crypt of the subscriber and the list name and putting this into the (RFC-spec'd but seldom used) Resent-Message-ID header. The AES secret key is put into mm_cfg.py. If you grok MM internals a bit and understand withlist and python, and don't mind importing the Python Crypto library I can send you the information on this hack, but I'd rather turn it over to the MM people for some sort of public posting so everyone can have a go at it, and I might not be the only person who could answer questions about it when people have them. -- Lindsay Haisley | "Everything works if you let it" FMP Computer Services | 512-259-1190 | --- The Roadie http://www.fmp.com | From stephen at xemacs.org Mon Aug 18 17:55:15 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 00:55:15 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redacted Email Address in Feedback Loop In-Reply-To: <1408373591.59892.14.camel@pudina.fmp.com> References: <87y4umfp48.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <1408373591.59892.14.camel@pudina.fmp.com> Message-ID: <87egwdg5cs.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Lindsay Haisley writes: > If you grok MM internals a bit and understand withlist and python, and > don't mind importing the Python Crypto library I can send you the > information on this hack, but I'd rather turn it over to the MM people > for some sort of public posting so everyone can have a go at it, and I > might not be the only person who could answer questions about it when > people have them. I think having an easily available patch is a great idea, but I fear if it's part of the official distribution, the redactors will redact that, too. From mailman at veggiechinese.net Mon Aug 18 19:58:57 2014 From: mailman at veggiechinese.net (Will Yardley) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:58:57 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redacted Email Address in Feedback Loop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140818175857.GR36407@aura.veggiechinese.net> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 04:55:52PM -0700, Peter Knowles wrote: > What is the best way to deal with feedback loop messages where the provider > has redacted the email address of the party who filed the complaint? I haven't looked at a FBL message for a while, but most of the ones I've seen didn't munge all the queue IDs in the past, so even without personalization, you should be able to tell from the logs, at least if you set the SMTP concurrency low enough. I think munging the headers is a sensible practice, as it makes it a little harder to listwash; the main idea of the FBL as I understand it is to give you an idea when there's some kind of gross abuse, not that you are required to unsubscribe anyone who complains about your mail. w From johnl at taugh.com Mon Aug 18 20:22:48 2014 From: johnl at taugh.com (John Levine) Date: 18 Aug 2014 18:22:48 -0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redacted Email Address in Feedback Loop In-Reply-To: <20140818175857.GR36407@aura.veggiechinese.net> Message-ID: <20140818182248.2470.qmail@joyce.lan> >I think munging the headers is a sensible practice, as it makes it >a little harder to listwash; the main idea of the FBL as I understand it >is to give you an idea when there's some kind of gross abuse, not that >you are required to unsubscribe anyone who complains about your mail. Munging FBLs is actually fairly stupid, since everyone knows that any sender can hide coded versions of the recipient address somewhere in the message, and most ESPs do. The ISPs I've talked to have told me that their lawyers say they have to do it because the party getting the FBL might not be the same as the sender, or something. As far as what recipients are supposed to do, they want the complaints to stop. They don't care how you do it. R's, John From fmouse at fmp.com Tue Aug 19 02:01:04 2014 From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 19:01:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redacted Email Address in Feedback Loop In-Reply-To: <20140818182248.2470.qmail@joyce.lan> References: <20140818182248.2470.qmail@joyce.lan> Message-ID: <1408406464.58941.11.camel@pudina.fmp.com> On Mon, 2014-08-18 at 18:22 +0000, John Levine wrote: > >I think munging the headers is a sensible practice, as it makes it > >a little harder to listwash; the main idea of the FBL as I understand it > >is to give you an idea when there's some kind of gross abuse, not that > >you are required to unsubscribe anyone who complains about your mail. > > Munging FBLs is actually fairly stupid, since everyone knows that any > sender can hide coded versions of the recipient address somewhere in > the message, and most ESPs do. > > The ISPs I've talked to have told me that their lawyers say they have > to do it because the party getting the FBL might not be the same as > the sender, or something. I have an automated system I built as a hack on MM to intercept FBL messages, identify the list, the subscriber, unsubscribe the subscriber from the list and send a notice to the list owner (thank you, withlist! ). I brought the subject up on the MM developers' list last year some time ago, and someone mentioned that they'd talked to AOL people who weren't particular about this, and weren't interested in removing all traces of the complaining subscriber address, just the obvious ones, and they had no problem if people wanted to include the information in an encrypted format. So I guess it's the same with them and the redaction is done to make the legal dept. happy. AFAIAC, any subscriber to any list that I host for anyone who's too clueless or lazy to use the prescribed methods for unsubscribing from a MM list, and just hits the "Report Spam" button, can't be dropped from the list fast enough! My hack puts an AES encrypted concatenation of the subscriber address and the list name in the (RFC spec'd but seldom used) Resent-Message-ID header. The AES secret key is stored in mm_cfg.py. -- Lindsay Haisley | "Everything works if you let it" FMP Computer Services | 512-259-1190 | --- The Roadie http://www.fmp.com | From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Aug 19 02:30:42 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 09:30:42 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redacted Email Address in Feedback Loop In-Reply-To: <20140818175857.GR36407@aura.veggiechinese.net> References: <20140818175857.GR36407@aura.veggiechinese.net> Message-ID: <87bnrhfhhp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Will Yardley writes: > I think munging the headers is a sensible practice, as it makes it > a little harder to listwash; the main idea of the FBL as I understand it > is to give you an idea when there's some kind of gross abuse, That's what they say, but in many cases that's not what they do. In particular, when one of *their* users hits the spam button on a mail they requested which has the unsubscribe address in the footer, that's "gross abuse" by the subscriber. However, that's not the kind of gross abuse that a list or site admin can do anything about. Why is it being reported by the feedback loop? Can you be sure it's not a component of your host's reputation that could cause your list to be blocked at that destination? > not that you are required to unsubscribe anyone who complains about > your mail. What "required"? It's a common preference of list owners that gross abusers have their subscriptions terminated. And the threat is clear: the provider considers *their* user's misbehavior to be the fault of the *list*, otherwise there's no point in reporting "feedback". YMMV, of course, but that's the way I and many other list admins see it. As a Mailman developer, I think that if there's a sane way to help deal with this, Mailman should provide it. Regards, From pshute at nuw.org.au Tue Aug 19 04:23:10 2014 From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 12:23:10 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with Outlook In-Reply-To: <87ppfyfgqh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <61377823-4AF4-406C-81F8-6BC9E3D5F240@nuw.org.au> <0bc710f0-57df-4ad4-bbad-ba9ee80cdcc1@email.android.com> <53C48A1E.8020802@att.net> <87lhrv2kxq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53C87661.3080909@msapiro.net> <1B9BECA9-0F0D-4FA3-8503-3B7843AA2E1E@nathanson.org> <6762DDC5-F1E8-4046-8937-2477CD8FD65C@nathanson.org> <8006A547-1CE8-4596-8204-8A55C821EA3A@nuw.org.au> <877g36p4z9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53CDFC8E.60809@msapiro.net> <87wqa6fo5o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ppfyfgqh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > If we set from_is_list to No, how does the list behave > when > yahoo.com emails arrive? > > That depends on the setting of dmarc_moderation_action. If > it is set to Accept, it just passes them through, and lets > the destination decide what to do. Almost certainly you will > get many bounces. So if we set fom_is_list to No and dmarc_moderation_action to Munge From, non yahoo/aol emails will go through normally, and yahoo/aol emails will get munged? That's what we want. We're seeing too many side effects from munging them all. > > I'm under the impression it will send them to the > moderation queue, > and will offer extra options like munging. > > No. Neither of these options can cause a message to end up > in the moderation queue as currently specified. Good, we don't need that. I've been reading the messages here about these options ever since yahoo made the change that prompted their creation, but without understanding properly because we were stuck on 2.1.15. > I think what you missed is that all DMARC moderation is done > by a robot; no human intervention involved. Yes. I somehow got the idea there was an addional "safety net" that would give moderators a last chance to choose to munge or wrap at approval time. Like if dmarc_moderation_action had a Hold option. > This means that only messages from badly-behaved domains get > altered in ways which make life difficult for readers. For > me, this is great > -- it gives my *very* few "p=reject" members a strong > incentive to subscribe an address from a good citizen domain. > :-) Obviously, most admins are nowhere near so fortunate, so > I can't recommend making such a rationale public. ;-) Very few of our yahoo/aol members ever post. Lots of those who did have already changed to gmail when we asked, but a couple remain. If they still won't change then they'll have to put up with this. I've discovered another side effect of munging and iOS Mail, which I'll mention in another thread. Thanks for your help, Peter Shute From pshute at nuw.org.au Tue Aug 19 05:17:38 2014 From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 13:17:38 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munging and iOS Mail display of senders' display names Message-ID: We've recently enabled munging with 2.1.18-1. I think it's already been documented that this causes problems for iOS Mail users where they can no longer see who originally sent the messages. I've discovered that there's a bit more to it than that, at least in iOS 7.1.2, so I'm posting this in case others run into it. If the email is from "John Smith via list-name and if the device owner has *not* created a Contact for list-name at list-address.com on their device, then they'll see at least the left hand part of "John Smith via list-name" as the sender in the mail list and also in the From: header when they open the email. But if they *have* created a Contact for the list address, they'll only see the name they entered for it in both the mail list and in open emails. The result is conflicting reports from iOS users about whether iPhones/iPad can display who sent a list email or not. Experimenting with this, I tried altering the list address in the Contacts by adding an x on the end of it so that the Mail app wouldn't find it. Surprisingly that only made the app display "John Smith via list-name" in open emails. It continued to display the Contact name of the list in the mail list. It wasn't until I added an x in front of the address that it also displayed the sender's display name in the mail list. Peter Shute From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Aug 19 12:42:08 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 19:42:08 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with Outlook In-Reply-To: References: <61377823-4AF4-406C-81F8-6BC9E3D5F240@nuw.org.au> <0bc710f0-57df-4ad4-bbad-ba9ee80cdcc1@email.android.com> <53C48A1E.8020802@att.net> <87lhrv2kxq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53C87661.3080909@msapiro.net> <1B9BECA9-0F0D-4FA3-8503-3B7843AA2E1E@nathanson.org> <6762DDC5-F1E8-4046-8937-2477CD8FD65C@nathanson.org> <8006A547-1CE8-4596-8204-8A55C821EA3A@nuw.org.au> <877g36p4z9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53CDFC8E.60809@msapiro.net> <87wqa6fo5o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ppfyfgqh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <878umkg3r3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Peter Shute writes: > So if we set fom_is_list to No and dmarc_moderation_action to Munge > From, non yahoo/aol emails will go through normally, and yahoo/aol > emails will get munged? Yes, that's what will happen. (Modulo bugs, of course. This is a very new feature, and only recently has it been possible to test it in the wild. We believe there are no bugs, of course, but if you observe anything you don't understand or don't like, let us know!) Steve From kevinc at seaplace.org Mon Aug 18 18:22:51 2014 From: kevinc at seaplace.org (Kevin Carpenter) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 11:22:51 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Mailing list lag to SOME users In-Reply-To: <53F218AE.8040002@me.com> References: <53F218AE.8040002@me.com> Message-ID: <53F2285B.8060502@seaplace.org> Hi all. Been casually fighting a problem for a couple of months now and have finally decided to ask for help. I have a somewhat large mailing list, about 1700 users, that is generally working just fine. However, some users are seeing LONG delays (like 4+ hours) on mail delivery while other users, in the same organization, get sub-minute delivery. Specifically, the step 6 delay in the header analysis below is typically 2 seconds. In the header analysis below please note that mail.seaplace.org and spoe.seaplace.org are just two names (DNS A records) pointing to the same box. The postfix main.cf mydestination parameter includes both. I highly suspect this is something within Postfix and hope the list's extensive experience might help. Thanks in advance, Kevin Second: --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From pshute at nuw.org.au Tue Aug 19 19:35:10 2014 From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 03:35:10 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Mailing list lag to SOME users In-Reply-To: <53F2285B.8060502@seaplace.org> References: <53F218AE.8040002@me.com> <53F2285B.8060502@seaplace.org> Message-ID: <24571706-6CA8-4249-BB84-8C62AE21A56A@nuw.org.au> The headers seem to have been removed. We had a similar problem when our list host decided to throttle our mail. Our gmail members get postings within seconds, others can get them hours later. The more list traffic, then longer the delays, and sometimes they arrive out of order. But that was a shared mail server. Is this mail server your own? And our members are with random mail providers. Are the list members all on the same domain? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad > On 19 Aug 2014, at 11:40 pm, "Kevin Carpenter" wrote: > > Hi all. > > Been casually fighting a problem for a couple of months now and have > finally decided to ask for help. > > I have a somewhat large mailing list, about 1700 users, that is > generally working just fine. However, some users are seeing LONG delays > (like 4+ hours) on mail delivery while other users, in the same > organization, get sub-minute delivery. Specifically, the step 6 delay > in the header analysis below is typically 2 seconds. > > In the header analysis below please note that mail.seaplace.org and > spoe.seaplace.org are just two names (DNS A records) pointing to the > same box. The postfix main.cf mydestination parameter includes both. > > I highly suspect this is something within Postfix and hope the list's > extensive experience might help. > > Thanks in advance, > > Kevin > > Second: > > > > > > > > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Aug 19 19:56:34 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 02:56:34 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Mailing list lag to SOME users In-Reply-To: <53F2285B.8060502@seaplace.org> References: <53F218AE.8040002@me.com> <53F2285B.8060502@seaplace.org> Message-ID: <8738csfjn1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Kevin Carpenter writes: > I have a somewhat large mailing list, about 1700 users, that is > generally working just fine. However, some users are seeing LONG delays > (like 4+ hours) on mail delivery while other users, in the same > organization, get sub-minute delivery. By "same organization", you mean the sender, the mailman host, and the recipients all work for/are members of the same organization? By "some users" you mean some users always have long delays, and the others don't? Some users sometimes have long delays, sometimes not? FWIW, the "four hours" sounds like some host is greylisting. If so, it should be visible in the logs, as a temporary failure for the message which then ends up in the queue, and getting retried about four hours later, when it goes through. > Specifically, the step 6 delay in the header analysis below is > typically 2 seconds. I don't see anything at all below. This list strips many kinds of attachments. From kevinc at seaplace.org Tue Aug 19 21:44:51 2014 From: kevinc at seaplace.org (Kevin Carpenter) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 14:44:51 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Mailing list lag to SOME users In-Reply-To: <24571706-6CA8-4249-BB84-8C62AE21A56A@nuw.org.au> References: <53F218AE.8040002@me.com> <53F2285B.8060502@seaplace.org> <24571706-6CA8-4249-BB84-8C62AE21A56A@nuw.org.au> Message-ID: <53F3A933.2000304@seaplace.org> Thanks Peter. Not sure why the header images were removed from the e-mail. In any case, they basically showed the e-mail bouncing around within my mail server, presumingly as its passes through various greylist, blacklist, and anti-spam filtering. Typically headers looks like: Hop 1: User tool -> User mail system mapi Hop 2: User mapi -> User mail system SMTP server (TLS) Hop 3: User mail SMTP -> mail.seaplace.org (Postfix - obviously external IP address) Hop 4: mail.seaplace.org (localhost) -> Amavsid-new (localhost) Hop 5: localhost -> mail.seaplace.org (Postfix) Hop 6: spoe.seaplace.org (external address???) -> mail.seaplace.org (Postfix) /* This is where the delay occurs */ Hop 7: mail.seaplace.org (localhost) -> Amavsid-new (localhost) Hop 8: localhost -> mail.seaplace.org (Postfix) Hop 9: spoe.seaplace.org (external address) -> Recipient server spoe/mail.seaplace.org is my externally connected mail server. The ~1700 users are splattered all over the world, although predominately in the USA. Kevin On 8/19/2014 12:35 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > The headers seem to have been removed. > > We had a similar problem when our list host decided to throttle our mail. Our gmail members get postings within seconds, others can get them hours later. The more list traffic, then longer the delays, and sometimes they arrive out of order. > > But that was a shared mail server. Is this mail server your own? And our members are with random mail providers. Are the list members all on the same domain? > > Peter Shute > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 19 Aug 2014, at 11:40 pm, "Kevin Carpenter" wrote: >> >> Hi all. >> >> Been casually fighting a problem for a couple of months now and have >> finally decided to ask for help. >> >> I have a somewhat large mailing list, about 1700 users, that is >> generally working just fine. However, some users are seeing LONG delays >> (like 4+ hours) on mail delivery while other users, in the same >> organization, get sub-minute delivery. Specifically, the step 6 delay >> in the header analysis below is typically 2 seconds. >> >> In the header analysis below please note that mail.seaplace.org and >> spoe.seaplace.org are just two names (DNS A records) pointing to the >> same box. The postfix main.cf mydestination parameter includes both. >> >> I highly suspect this is something within Postfix and hope the list's >> extensive experience might help. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Kevin >> >> Second: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- >> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. >> http://www.avast.com >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From kevinc at seaplace.org Tue Aug 19 21:53:43 2014 From: kevinc at seaplace.org (Kevin Carpenter) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 14:53:43 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Mailing list lag to SOME users In-Reply-To: <8738csfjn1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <53F218AE.8040002@me.com> <53F2285B.8060502@seaplace.org> <8738csfjn1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <53F3AB47.4070207@seaplace.org> Stephen - Sorry for not being clear. List members are world wide, some have the same domain, for example, perhaps 10% use gmail. We have documented cases of two users at the same company having dramatically different delivery times. e.g. for user1 at abc.com and user2 at abc.com: user2 may get delivery in 5 seconds vs. user1 getting the delivery in 4 hours, inconsistently. e.g. the next message may go through fine, or delay a different user. Lets try the headers a different way: http://puu.sh/aZpeO/cbef0bd773.png Cheers! Kevin On 8/19/2014 12:56 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Kevin Carpenter writes: > > > I have a somewhat large mailing list, about 1700 users, that is > > generally working just fine. However, some users are seeing LONG delays > > (like 4+ hours) on mail delivery while other users, in the same > > organization, get sub-minute delivery. > > By "same organization", you mean the sender, the mailman host, and the > recipients all work for/are members of the same organization? > > By "some users" you mean some users always have long delays, and the > others don't? Some users sometimes have long delays, sometimes not? > > FWIW, the "four hours" sounds like some host is greylisting. If so, > it should be visible in the logs, as a temporary failure for the > message which then ends up in the queue, and getting retried about > four hours later, when it goes through. > > > Specifically, the step 6 delay in the header analysis below is > > typically 2 seconds. > > I don't see anything at all below. This list strips many kinds of > attachments. > > --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From mailman at veggiechinese.net Tue Aug 19 23:27:47 2014 From: mailman at veggiechinese.net (Will Yardley) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 14:27:47 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] .psv files in /var/spool/mailman/in 2.1.9 Message-ID: <20140819212747.GC36407@aura.veggiechinese.net> I found some .psv files in /var/spool/mailman/in/ (RHEL 5 Mailman package; 2.1.9). That seems to be too early for the stuff mentioned here (and I don't see those options in Defaults.py) https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-June/066395.html Is it safe to remove old .psv files in this directory directly via find / cron? w From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Aug 20 03:51:23 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 10:51:23 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Mailing list lag to SOME users In-Reply-To: <53F3AB47.4070207@seaplace.org> References: <53F218AE.8040002@me.com> <53F2285B.8060502@seaplace.org> <8738csfjn1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53F3AB47.4070207@seaplace.org> Message-ID: <87y4ukdj38.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Kevin Carpenter writes: > We have documented cases of two users at the same company having > dramatically different delivery times. e.g. for user1 at abc.com and > user2 at abc.com: user2 may get delivery in 5 seconds vs. user1 getting > the delivery in 4 hours, inconsistently. e.g. the next message may go > through fine, or delay a different user. Sounds like greylisting to me. > Lets try the headers a different way: http://puu.sh/aZpeO/cbef0bd773.png Your DNS may be problematic. The PTR for the address of "mail" points to "spoe". For most protocols, a CNAME is good enough, but SMTP wants the MX to have an A record, and many receiving hosts will look at the failure of mail --A--> x.y.z.w --PTR--> spoe to roundtrip mail --> mail and label that incoming connection as "possibly forged". I don't know if anybody takes that very seriously these days, but you might want to change that PTR to point to "mail" rather than "spoe". Be careful: that PTR may be there for a reason. I don't think this has anything to do with the issue at hand, though. I guess amavis is configured to accept mail via LMTP on port 10024 (lines 4, 7), and to inject mail via LMTP (thus the host is not identified beyond "unknown" in lines 5,8) on the default port. Mailman appears to be the recipient at line 5, and reinjecting at line 6. But line 6 is your external address for "spoe". The important information is between lines 5 and 6. In mailman's logs (post, smtp, error, etc), check for Mailman activity on this post at 09:57, and also for SMTP activity. Since Mailman is sending to your external address, if grey listing is active, it would show up here as two attempts to send, one at 09:57, and one later. But it looks to me like your log analysis shows only successful attempts to send. I would guess you can avoid greylisting by having Mailman send to localhost rather than "mail". (This depends on how you have greylisting configured, if indeed that's the problem.) Of course this could be completely off-base, but that's my best guess based on the information you've provided. From kevinc at seaplace.org Wed Aug 20 03:59:21 2014 From: kevinc at seaplace.org (Kevin Carpenter) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 20:59:21 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Mailing list lag to SOME users In-Reply-To: <87y4ukdj38.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <53F218AE.8040002@me.com> <53F2285B.8060502@seaplace.org> <8738csfjn1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53F3AB47.4070207@seaplace.org> <87y4ukdj38.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <53F400F9.9070704@seaplace.org> On 8/19/2014 8:51 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Kevin Carpenter writes: > > > We have documented cases of two users at the same company having > > dramatically different delivery times. e.g. for user1 at abc.com and > > user2 at abc.com: user2 may get delivery in 5 seconds vs. user1 getting > > the delivery in 4 hours, inconsistently. e.g. the next message may go > > through fine, or delay a different user. > > Sounds like greylisting to me. Agreed, but my understanding of my greylist software is that it does it via mail address, and these are regular members of the list, not first time posters. e.g. They shouldn't be greylisted anymore. > > > Lets try the headers a different way: http://puu.sh/aZpeO/cbef0bd773.png > > Your DNS may be problematic. The PTR for the address of "mail" points > to "spoe". For most protocols, a CNAME is good enough, but SMTP wants > the MX to have an A record, and many receiving hosts will look at the > failure of mail --A--> x.y.z.w --PTR--> spoe to roundtrip mail --> mail > and label that incoming connection as "possibly forged". I don't know > if anybody takes that very seriously these days, but you might want to > change that PTR to point to "mail" rather than "spoe". Be careful: > that PTR may be there for a reason. I don't think this has anything > to do with the issue at hand, though. Well, the good news is that I run my own DNS server as well. And your right, the reason mail.seaplace.org has an A record is because of the MX issue. I suppose I could make "spoe" a CNAME of mail, although the random nature of this problem also makes me think this isn't the problem. > > I guess amavis is configured to accept mail via LMTP on port 10024 > (lines 4, 7), and to inject mail via LMTP (thus the host is not > identified beyond "unknown" in lines 5,8) on the default port. I'd have to check, but that sounds right. > > Mailman appears to be the recipient at line 5, and reinjecting at line > 6. But line 6 is your external address for "spoe". > > The important information is between lines 5 and 6. In mailman's logs > (post, smtp, error, etc), check for Mailman activity on this post at > 09:57, and also for SMTP activity. Since Mailman is sending to your > external address, if grey listing is active, it would show up here as > two attempts to send, one at 09:57, and one later. But it looks to me > like your log analysis shows only successful attempts to send. I looked in /var/log/messages, where almost everything goes, and didn't see anything flagged around 09:57. > > I would guess you can avoid greylisting by having Mailman send to > localhost rather than "mail". (This depends on how you have > greylisting configured, if indeed that's the problem.) > > Of course this could be completely off-base, but that's my best guess > based on the information you've provided. I'll double check the amavis configuration, and greylist configuration, and see if there are any defaults I can set to mail.seaplace.org or localhost instead of letting it default to the local host name: spoe.seaplace.org. One thing I noticed is that Amavis is being called twice. That seemed really weird to me. Thanks! Kevin > > --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Aug 20 07:16:26 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 14:16:26 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Mailing list lag to SOME users In-Reply-To: <53F400F9.9070704@seaplace.org> References: <53F218AE.8040002@me.com> <53F2285B.8060502@seaplace.org> <8738csfjn1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53F3AB47.4070207@seaplace.org> <87y4ukdj38.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53F400F9.9070704@seaplace.org> Message-ID: <87vbpneo5x.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Kevin Carpenter writes: > Agreed, but my understanding of my greylist software is that it does it > via mail address, and these are regular members of the list, not first > time posters. e.g. They shouldn't be greylisted anymore. Most greylist software only whitelists for a specified period of time, typically 24 hours. YMMV of course. > Well, the good news is that I run my own DNS server as well. And your > right, the reason mail.seaplace.org has an A record is because of the MX > issue. I suppose I could make "spoe" a CNAME of mail, although the > random nature of this problem also makes me think this isn't the > problem. I don't think that's necessary, although it makes the situation clearer. What I'm recommending is switching the PTR for the IP address to point to mail.seaplace.org. > One thing I noticed is that Amavis is being called twice. That seemed > really weird to me. I suspect that if you change Mailman to talk to localhost:25 instead of mail.seaplace.org:25, Amavis will no longer be called. It's probably possible to get Postfix (IIRC) to recognize mail.seaplace.org as localhost, and that might fix it too. But at present, Postfix is probably configured to think of mail from local host as trustworthy and not scan it on the way out, while mail received on the external interface is treated as "external", and therefore as needing scanning. From n2ki.ham at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 14:12:18 2014 From: n2ki.ham at gmail.com (Anthony (N2KI)) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 08:12:18 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman On Raspbian Message-ID: I am installing Mailman on a Pi. after I installed via the repository I got this message but do not know how to proceed with this request. Thanks for any help to get this operational. To finish creating your mailing list, you must edit your /etc/aliases (or equivalent) file by adding the following lines, and possibly running the `newaliases' program: > ## mailman mailing list > mailman: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman" > mailman-admin: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman" > mailman-bounces: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman" > mailman-confirm: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman" > mailman-join: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman" > mailman-leave: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman" > mailman-owner: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman" > mailman-request: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman" > mailman-subscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman" > mailman-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman" > > Hit enter to notify mailman owner... Regards, Anthony From n2ki.ham at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 15:17:52 2014 From: n2ki.ham at gmail.com (Anthony (N2KI)) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 09:17:52 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] I'm Stuck Message-ID: Tried to start mailman and this is what I get. Not sure how to proceed. It appears that is is looking for a list names mailman but I do not know how to create it. pi at raspberrypi ~ $ /etc/init.d/mailman start Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists", line 122, in main() File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists", line 94, in main mlist = MailList.MailList(n, lock=0) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__ self.Load() File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 650, in Load dict, e = self.__load(file) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 615, in __load fp = open(dbfile) IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck' [warn] Site list for mailman missing (looking for list named 'mailman'). ... (warning). [warn] Please create it; until then, mailman will refuse to start. ... (warning). pi at raspberrypi ~ $ Regards, Anthony From bsfinkel at att.net Thu Aug 21 16:01:29 2014 From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S. Finkel) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 09:01:29 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman On Raspbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53F5FBB9.9010706@att.net> On 8/21/2014 7:12 AM, Anthony (N2KI) wrote: > I am installing Mailman on a Pi. after I installed via the repository I > got this message but do not know how to proceed with this request. Thanks > for any help to get this operational. > > > > To finish creating your mailing list, you must edit your /etc/aliases (or > equivalent) file by adding the following lines, and possibly running the > `newaliases' program: > >> ## mailman mailing list >> mailman: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman" >> mailman-admin: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman" >> mailman-bounces: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman" >> mailman-confirm: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman" >> mailman-join: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman" >> mailman-leave: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman" >> mailman-owner: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman" >> mailman-request: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman" >> mailman-subscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman" >> mailman-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman" >> >> Hit enter to notify mailman owner... > > > > Regards, > > Anthony Anthony, you do what the message says. I do not know what mailer you are using (Postfix, sendmail, etc.), so I cannot give you specific instructions. Look at your mailer's alias file. It probably does not have the aliases (listed above) that are required for Mailman to run. Run the "newaliases" commmand, and then check the aliases file. If these aliases are not in the file, then you have to add them and use "newaliases" to rebuilt the aliases database files. --Barry Finkel From bsfinkel at att.net Thu Aug 21 16:05:44 2014 From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S. Finkel) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 09:05:44 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] I'm Stuck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53F5FCB8.2080203@att.net> On 8/21/2014 8:17 AM, Anthony (N2KI) wrote: > Tried to start mailman and this is what I get. Not sure how to proceed. > It appears that is is looking for a list names mailman but I do not know > how to create it. > > > > pi at raspberrypi ~ $ /etc/init.d/mailman start > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists", line 122, in > main() > File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists", line 94, in main > mlist = MailList.MailList(n, lock=0) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__ > self.Load() > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 650, in Load > dict, e = self.__load(file) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 615, in __load > fp = open(dbfile) > IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: > '/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck' > [warn] Site list for mailman missing (looking for list named 'mailman'). > ... (warning). > [warn] Please create it; until then, mailman will refuse to start. ... > (warning). > pi at raspberrypi ~ $ > > > > > Regards, > > Anthony Anthony, are you following instructions from the web? Mailman will not start until there is a mailing list named mailman You need to create that list before Mailman will start. The instructions for this should be on the web; I do not have the URL handy. --Barry Finkel From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Aug 21 16:22:26 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 23:22:26 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman On Raspbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87zjexdisd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Anthony (N2KI) writes: > I am installing Mailman on a Pi. after I installed via the repository I > got this message but do not know how to proceed with this request. Which MTA are you using? From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Aug 21 17:33:37 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 00:33:37 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] I'm Stuck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87y4uhdfhq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Anthony (N2KI) writes: > Tried to start mailman and this is what I get. Not sure how to > proceed. It appears that is is looking for a list names mailman > but I do not know how to create it. /bin/newlist where is typically /usr/lib/mailman on POSIX systems, but I don't know how the Pi is set up. From cybergram at eastlink.ca Wed Aug 20 14:34:17 2014 From: cybergram at eastlink.ca (Nancy) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 09:34:17 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions about Content Filtering Message-ID: Hi folks, I am not very technically inclined and I'm the co- listkeeper for a group. We have had some problems lately and we were wondering what would happen if we made changes to the Content Filtering section of the Admin page? If : multipart/mixed multipart/alternative were removed would the listkeepers, as owners of the group receive bounces from everyone who tried to send formatted text? If these two lines were changed from "Yes" to "No" what would happen? Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content? No Yes X Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. No Yes X Examples of our current problem: 1.This ? at the end of every sentence & inserted in several places in sentences: Louise can't get email.? 2. One continuous paragraph arrives when the sender had made appropriate paragraphs 3. Complete gibberish: MLN?13:46 UTC???4 \?[?]Z\?N??\??YH???H\?\??YP at arthlink.net> ???]???\??[??YH??????[\??\?HMentor hi from Jessi first nine days > > Hi Sherrie ? Day 10 :) ?F?????Rf?"6?V6???r?????fRF?Rw&?W. Reading the threads in my inbox every day Are these problems caused by many people now using cell phones & tablets to send email? Thank you for your patience & any help you might provide. Nancy From heller at deepsoft.com Fri Aug 22 15:51:26 2014 From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 09:51:26 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions about Content Filtering In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201408221351.s7MDpQCa017176@sharky2.deepsoft.com> At Wed, 20 Aug 2014 09:34:17 -0300 Nancy wrote: > > Hi folks, I am not very technically inclined and I'm the co- listkeeper for a group. We have had some problems lately and we were wondering > what would happen if we made changes to the Content Filtering section of the Admin page? > > If : > multipart/mixed > multipart/alternative > were removed would the listkeepers, as owners of the group receive bounces from everyone who tried to send formatted text? > > If these two lines were changed from "Yes" to "No" what would happen? > > Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content? No Yes X > > Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. No Yes X > The *best* option would be to: 1) reject (or moderate) 'pure' HTML messages. 2) Strip text/HTML parts off. Most (all?) *decent* E-Mail clients send both a text/plain and a text/HTML version of the message (multipart/alternative). Generally, the text/plain is 'sufficient' -- it contains the *text* of the message, without the (unnecessary!) formatting (eg fonts, colors, etc.). *Some* mailers deal with 'bold' using old-school ASCII tricks (like *this is bold*). Unfortunately, many mailers / computers (including cell phones and tablets), use non-ASCII character sets (not that they need them really, esp. for *American* English), so lots of 'common' characters like quote marks, aposthophes, and some other puncuation characters show up as UTF-8 characters that don't display well with 7-bit ASCII mailer programs. > Examples of our current problem: > > > 1.This ?? at the end of every sentence & inserted in several places in sentences: > Louise can't get email.?? > > 2. One continuous paragraph arrives when the sender had made appropriate paragraphs Unfortunately, many modern E-Mail clients no longer insert line breaks and expect the *receiving* E-Mail client to 'wrap' lines, depending on the display width. There is not much you can do about this, other than rant at the E-Mail client authors, who are not going to listen to you. > > 3. Complete gibberish: > MLN??13:46 UTC???4 > \??[??]Z\??N????\????YH????H\??\????YP at arthlink.net> > ????]??????\????[????YH????????[\??\??HMentor hi from Jessi first nine days > > > > Hi Sherrie > ?? Day 10 :) > ??F???????Rf??"6??V6??????r??????????fRF??Rw&??W. Reading the threads in my inbox every day > > Are these problems caused by many people now using cell phones & tablets to send email? > > Thank you for your patience & any help you might provide. > > Nancy > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/heller%40deepsoft.com > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services heller at deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services From kevinc at seaplace.org Fri Aug 22 17:31:54 2014 From: kevinc at seaplace.org (Kevin Carpenter) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:31:54 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Mailing list lag to SOME users In-Reply-To: <87vbpneo5x.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <53F218AE.8040002@me.com> <53F2285B.8060502@seaplace.org> <8738csfjn1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53F3AB47.4070207@seaplace.org> <87y4ukdj38.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <53F400F9.9070704@seaplace.org> <87vbpneo5x.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <53F7626A.5080007@seaplace.org> OK... going to try one thing at a time. First: In mm_cfg.py changing smtphost to point at localhost. DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.seaplace.org' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.seaplace.org' #SMTPHOST = 'mail.seaplace.org' SMTPHOST = 'localhost' MTA = 'Postfix' Hopefully that won't break anything since, at least on this instance of mailman, its all running on the same machine. About to find out. Kevin On 8/20/2014 12:16 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Kevin Carpenter writes: > > > Agreed, but my understanding of my greylist software is that it does it > > via mail address, and these are regular members of the list, not first > > time posters. e.g. They shouldn't be greylisted anymore. > > Most greylist software only whitelists for a specified period of time, > typically 24 hours. YMMV of course. > > > Well, the good news is that I run my own DNS server as well. And your > > right, the reason mail.seaplace.org has an A record is because of the MX > > issue. I suppose I could make "spoe" a CNAME of mail, although the > > random nature of this problem also makes me think this isn't the > > problem. > > I don't think that's necessary, although it makes the situation > clearer. What I'm recommending is switching the PTR for the IP > address to point to mail.seaplace.org. > > > One thing I noticed is that Amavis is being called twice. That seemed > > really weird to me. > > I suspect that if you change Mailman to talk to localhost:25 instead > of mail.seaplace.org:25, Amavis will no longer be called. It's > probably possible to get Postfix (IIRC) to recognize mail.seaplace.org > as localhost, and that might fix it too. But at present, Postfix is > probably configured to think of mail from local host as trustworthy > and not scan it on the way out, while mail received on the external > interface is treated as "external", and therefore as needing scanning. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Aug 22 19:03:22 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 02:03:22 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions about Content Filtering In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87k360cv8l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Nancy writes: > If : > multipart/mixed > multipart/alternative > were removed would the listkeepers, as owners of the group receive > bounces from everyone who tried to send formatted text? Whether the owners would receive notification depends on the filter_action (last option on that screen), which can be Discard (silently), Reject (and return to sender), Forward to List Owner, or Preserve (save in a special place for later use by list owners). Only in the "Forward" case will you get a notification. As for "formatted text", that depends on what else is in pass_mime_types. If only text/plain is there, there is no way for HTML formatting to get in. However, it won't stop any of the problems you list below from occurring. > If these two lines were changed from "Yes" to "No" what would happen? > > Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part > content? No Yes > > Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This > conversion happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. No > Yes If you remove the multipart lines from pass_mime_types, these two lines have no effect. If you keep them, the effect depends on the sender, but normally the message will be converted to plain text. However, plain text may include "unusual" characters like those in your samples below. I think you should try the following: 1. add text/html to pass_mime_types. Ie, it should read multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain text/html 2. set collapse/alternatives and convert_html_to_plaintext to no. Of course this means that HTML formatted messages will pass through, but I wouldn't be surprised if the "mail programs for the rest of us" handle HTML better than they do plain text. BTW, I don't think this specifically has anything to do with tablets or cellphones. Similar problems occur with email programs for PCs. > Examples of our current problem: As far as I can tell your examples were corrupted in transmission (and then corrupted again when Robert quoted it -- it appears differently in his message. For us to learn more about the problem, we need to see the problem messages, including all header and formatting material, preferably in two versions, both as received by the Mailman server, and as resent to list members by Mailman. Since message content is the problem, they should be verbatim, no editing at all, just resend the whole thing. That's up to you, of course, and you should consider the privacy of your members. If you can get those copies, and you feel the content is sufficiently un-sensitive that the users wouldn't mind (or better, you can get permission) feel free to send them directly to me and Mark Sapiro (this list is archived and available to the public, so your users' addresses and names would be Googleable -- best to avoid that). Regards, Steve From frank.bonnet at esiee.fr Tue Aug 26 10:43:43 2014 From: frank.bonnet at esiee.fr (BONNET, Frank) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:43:43 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation by email instead of web interface ? Message-ID: Hello Anyone could send me some info on how to configure a particuliar list to be moderated through email and NOT with the web interface with the Approve mechanism Thank you From ccordero at csusb.edu Mon Aug 25 18:02:37 2014 From: ccordero at csusb.edu (Chad Cordero) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:02:37 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Number of threads Message-ID: <01829268-4F1A-4629-9A8D-4C63881DC995@csusb.edu> I am using MailMan version 2.1.12 and I am being asked for the total number of messages without replies (threads) for a list. I can see the ?Messages: ? count in the archives, but this is the total number of messages, not threads. Is there a way to get the number of threads? --- Chad Cordero Enterprise Applications Support 5500 University Pkwy San Bernardino, CA 92407 Tel: 909-537-7281 Email: ccordero at csusb.edu From tinker123 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 21:12:48 2014 From: tinker123 at gmail.com (Steve) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:12:48 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated list, letting some users be unmoderated, and with emails addressed to multiple recipients. Message-ID: Hi, I'm a moderator on a GNU Mailman list running version 2.1.13. The list moderated, all posts come to me for approval. I have a few very trustworthy and regular posters that I have set as unmoderated to save myself some work. The problem is that they send their emails to multiple lists/recipients and when they do I am still forced to approve their posts. Is there an option in the GUI front end I can set on these users to let their posts straight through regardless? Thanks Steve From peterf at wcasa.org Tue Aug 26 16:41:14 2014 From: peterf at wcasa.org (Peter Fiala) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 14:41:14 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Error: 'The list overview page has been disabled temporarily' Message-ID: <67cb8aae4a144cdcb488d063f77d99b9@BLUPR08MB406.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> I thought our public lists were showing on our website but I guess not. Any ideas on how to enable the overview page? Thanks, Peter Peter Fiala Technology & Events Coordinator Wisconsin Coalition Against Sexual Assault (WCASA) 2801 W. Beltline Hwy., Ste 202, Madison, WI 53713 Telephone: 608-257-1516; Direct: 608-284-5494 Fax: 608-257-2150 Website: www.wcasa.org Creating the Social Change Necessary to End Sexual Violence Please consider a holiday gift to help us continue our important work into 2014. You can make donations to WCASA directly online by visiting our website. [link to wcasa's Facebook page] [link to wcasa's Twitter feed] [https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS8fWOIOHiKkDuBEon9eoc4_Rkp-EW-KLKXvst0VMmewXeOO9ZF] Registration Open 9/25: Regional SART Meeting 10/8: WCASA Webinar Series: ALL* Save the Date 9/10-11: Fall Directors Meeting 10/4: Survivors & Allies Fall Meeting 11/3-6: SAVAS 11/13: WCASA Annual Meeting From jaw171 at pitt.edu Wed Aug 27 17:54:54 2014 From: jaw171 at pitt.edu (Jeff White) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 11:54:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] DNS error behaviour with DMARC Message-ID: <53FDFF4E.7080603@pitt.edu> With dmarc_moderation_notice set to anything but "Accept" Mailman will do a DNS query for every message that comes in and check the DMARC record of the sending domain. I have two questions regarding this: 1. Has anyone on this list noticed any performance issues with the overhead this adds? I doubt there is anything noticeable but curious if anyone has seen any issue. 2. What is Mailman's behaviour if the query fails (e.g. times out)? Defaults.py says: # Parameters for DMARC DNS lookups. If you are seeing 'DNSException: # Unable to query DMARC policy ...' entries in your error log, you may need # to adjust these. # The time to wait for a response from a name server before timeout. DMARC_RESOLVER_TIMEOUT = seconds(3) # The total time to spend trying to get an answer to the question. DMARC_RESOLVER_LIFETIME = seconds(5) ... but what happens to the post when DNSException is thrown? Is the message rejected and a bounce sent to the poster? Is it re-queued and tried again? If so when does Mailman give up? Does Mailman simply shunt the post and throw an error? If someone can point me to the file that holds this code I can review it and report what the behaviour is. -- Jeff White - GNU+Linux Systems Administrator University of Pittsburgh - CSSD From bsfinkel at att.net Wed Aug 27 20:54:56 2014 From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S. Finkel) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 13:54:56 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] DNS error behaviour with DMARC In-Reply-To: <53FDFF4E.7080603@pitt.edu> References: <53FDFF4E.7080603@pitt.edu> Message-ID: <53FE2980.704@att.net> On 8/27/2014 10:54 AM, Jeff White wrote: > With dmarc_moderation_notice set to anything but "Accept" Mailman will > do a DNS query for every message that comes in and check the DMARC > record of the sending domain. I have two questions regarding this: > > 1. Has anyone on this list noticed any performance issues with the > overhead this adds? I doubt there is anything noticeable but curious if > anyone has seen any issue. > > 2. What is Mailman's behaviour if the query fails (e.g. times out)? > Defaults.py says: > > # Parameters for DMARC DNS lookups. If you are seeing 'DNSException: > # Unable to query DMARC policy ...' entries in your error log, you may need > # to adjust these. > # The time to wait for a response from a name server before timeout. > DMARC_RESOLVER_TIMEOUT = seconds(3) > # The total time to spend trying to get an answer to the question. > DMARC_RESOLVER_LIFETIME = seconds(5) > > ... but what happens to the post when DNSException is thrown? Is the > message rejected and a bounce sent to the poster? Is it re-queued and > tried again? If so when does Mailman give up? Does Mailman simply > shunt the post and throw an error? > > > If someone can point me to the file that holds this code I can review it > and report what the behaviour is. > As for item 1 - What is your DNS setup? If the Mailman server has a cacheing-only name server on the same box (and it is good to do so), or if the Mailman server is contacting a local DNS server for DNS resolution, then the local DNS server should have the information cached (for a TTL determined by the owner of the DNS record), so DNS traffic should be minimal. I assume that the owner of a DMARC record in DNS will place an appropriate TTL on the record so that the record will remain in a DNS cache for a time that will limit the number of DNS requests back to the master DNS server. A domain owner should have multiple DNS servers so that one is always accessible for queries. --Barry Finkel From alanmeyer at yahoo.com Thu Aug 28 08:58:09 2014 From: alanmeyer at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 23:58:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters Message-ID: <1409209089.44385.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hi, I recently set up a Ubuntu 14.04 server with Mailman 2.1.16.? It took a while for me to configure because I needed to modify the setup procedure from Ubuntu's instructions to what the mailman documentation suggested (no use of the postfix-to-mailman.py script). At any rate, my main goal has been to use mailman for an Indian Guides group, which for years has just been an email list of about 50 people.? Mailman seemed like a great option to help ensure that all of the members are accounted for in each email and to have archives available. The problem that I'm having is that for some people on the list, they don't reliably get their emails.? Mostly, this is from members that are on gmail.com or hotmail.com or in some cases ymail.com.? The "lost" emails get stuck in their spam filter, and in some cases hotmail users don't get their emails at all. I did some testing with a practice list I created (sending to my own set of yahoo, gmail accounts), where my yahoo account was sending to members on a gmail account.? I found no issue sending directly from yahoo to gmail, but from yahoo->mail list->gmail got caught in the gmail's spam filter.? The gmail account spam folder would flag it and give me a note something to the effect of "The sender's yahoo.com address could not be confirmed". Furthermore, in the gmail account, I can mark the email as "Not SPAM" but that doesn't help on subsequent emails. As an experiment, I changed a few settings (from default Yes to No), but these didn't seem to make a difference: - Should messages from this mailing list include the RFC 2369 (i.e. List-*) headers? Yes is highly recommended. - Should postings include the List-Post: header? - Should the Sender header be rewritten for this mailing list to avoid stray bounces? Yes is recommended. My search for SPAM hasn't helped (most SPAM issues are related to actual SPAM getting in from user accounts). Have others encountered this type of issue?? Are there any settings I can use or steps I can take to help resolve this? Thanks in advance. Sincerely, -Alan From bsfinkel at att.net Thu Aug 28 16:36:11 2014 From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S. Finkel) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:36:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters In-Reply-To: <1409209089.44385.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1409209089.44385.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53FF3E5B.2030001@att.net> On 8/28/2014 1:58 AM, Alan Meyer wrote: > Hi, > > I recently set up a Ubuntu 14.04 server with Mailman 2.1.16. It took a while for me to configure because I needed to modify the setup procedure from Ubuntu's instructions to what the mailman documentation suggested (no use of the postfix-to-mailman.py script). > > At any rate, my main goal has been to use mailman for an Indian Guides group, which for years has just been an email list of about 50 people. Mailman seemed like a great option to help ensure that all of the members are accounted for in each email and to have archives available. > > The problem that I'm having is that for some people on the list, they don't reliably get their emails. Mostly, this is from members that are on gmail.com or hotmail.com or in some cases ymail.com. The "lost" emails get stuck in their spam filter, and in some cases hotmail users don't get their emails at all. > > I did some testing with a practice list I created (sending to my own set of yahoo, gmail accounts), where my yahoo account was sending to members on a gmail account. I found no issue sending directly from yahoo to gmail, but from yahoo->mail list->gmail got caught in the gmail's spam filter. The gmail account spam folder would flag it and give me a note something to the effect of "The sender's yahoo.com address could not be confirmed". > > Furthermore, in the gmail account, I can mark the email as "Not SPAM" but that doesn't help on subsequent emails. > > > As an experiment, I changed a few settings (from default Yes to No), but these didn't seem to make a difference: > - Should messages from this mailing list include the RFC 2369 (i.e. List-*) headers? Yes is highly recommended. > - Should postings include the List-Post: header? > - Should the Sender header be rewritten for this mailing list to avoid stray bounces? Yes is recommended. > > > My search for SPAM hasn't helped (most SPAM issues are related to actual SPAM getting in from user accounts). > > Have others encountered this type of issue? Are there any settings I can use or steps I can take to help resolve this? > > > Thanks in advance. > > Sincerely, > -Alan Alan, I think that you are experiencing DMARC problems. You need the latest Mailman (2.1.18-1) to handle DMARC issues. See the archives of this list from this past April onward to read about DMARC and Mailman. --Barry Finkel From khbkhb at gmail.com Thu Aug 28 16:57:35 2014 From: khbkhb at gmail.com (Keith Bierman) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:57:35 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters In-Reply-To: <53FF3E5B.2030001@att.net> References: <1409209089.44385.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <53FF3E5B.2030001@att.net> Message-ID: DMARC aside, GMAIL users who don't wish their mail lists to end up in SPAM can easily set up a filter whose sole action is to mark the item "not spam". It's been a facility gmail provides long before the DMARC fiasco. Settings->Filters->new filter->fill in criteria, probably the mail list "from" ->" Never send it to Spam" Keith Bierman khbkhb at gmail.com kbiermank AIM 303 997 2749 On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Barry S. Finkel wrote: > On 8/28/2014 1:58 AM, Alan Meyer wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I recently set up a Ubuntu 14.04 server with Mailman 2.1.16. It took a >> while for me to configure because I needed to modify the setup procedure >> from Ubuntu's instructions to what the mailman documentation suggested (no >> use of the postfix-to-mailman.py script). >> >> At any rate, my main goal has been to use mailman for an Indian Guides >> group, which for years has just been an email list of about 50 people. >> Mailman seemed like a great option to help ensure that all of the members >> are accounted for in each email and to have archives available. >> >> The problem that I'm having is that for some people on the list, they >> don't reliably get their emails. Mostly, this is from members that are on >> gmail.com or hotmail.com or in some cases ymail.com. The "lost" emails >> get stuck in their spam filter, and in some cases hotmail users don't get >> their emails at all. >> >> I did some testing with a practice list I created (sending to my own set >> of yahoo, gmail accounts), where my yahoo account was sending to members on >> a gmail account. I found no issue sending directly from yahoo to gmail, >> but from yahoo->mail list->gmail got caught in the gmail's spam filter. >> The gmail account spam folder would flag it and give me a note something to >> the effect of "The sender's yahoo.com address could not be confirmed". >> >> Furthermore, in the gmail account, I can mark the email as "Not SPAM" but >> that doesn't help on subsequent emails. >> >> >> As an experiment, I changed a few settings (from default Yes to No), but >> these didn't seem to make a difference: >> - Should messages from this mailing list include the RFC 2369 (i.e. >> List-*) headers? Yes is highly recommended. >> - Should postings include the List-Post: header? >> - Should the Sender header be rewritten for this mailing list to avoid >> stray bounces? Yes is recommended. >> >> >> My search for SPAM hasn't helped (most SPAM issues are related to actual >> SPAM getting in from user accounts). >> >> Have others encountered this type of issue? Are there any settings I can >> use or steps I can take to help resolve this? >> >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Sincerely, >> -Alan >> > > Alan, I think that you are experiencing DMARC problems. You need the > latest Mailman (2.1.18-1) to handle DMARC issues. See the archives > of this list from this past April onward to read about DMARC and > Mailman. > > --Barry Finkel > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ > mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ > khbkhb%40gmail.com > From brian at emwd.com Thu Aug 28 16:26:19 2014 From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:26:19 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters In-Reply-To: <1409209089.44385.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1409209089.44385.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3d0201cfc2cc$094fb7d0$1bef2770$@emwd.com> Hi Alan: Are you aware of the DMARC issue that list owners are facing when allowing Yahoo and AOL members to post to a list? Please see the following: http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=17891458 Are you using the From_Is_List option on the general options page? If you are, what setting do you have it set to? We were/are having issues emailing Gmail users when using the mung setting so we are now instructing our mailman clients to use the "Wrap Message" setting. Google considers any email that breaks the 5322 RFC standard to be a violation of their best practices for sending bulk mail. Also you can use the following form to talk to Google: https://support.google.com/mail/contact/msgdelivery https://support.google.com/mail/contact/bulk_send_new?rd=1 Here is their Bulk Senders Guidelines: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126 Brian Carpenter EMWD.com Providing Cloud and Mailman hosting Services and more for many years. T: 336.755.0685 E: brian at emwd.com www.emwd.com www.mailmanhost.com ? > -----Original Message----- > From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users- > bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Alan Meyer > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 2:58 AM > To: Mailman-Users at python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters > > Hi, > > I recently set up a Ubuntu 14.04 server with Mailman 2.1.16.? It took a while > for me to configure because I needed to modify the setup procedure from > Ubuntu's instructions to what the mailman documentation suggested (no > use of the postfix-to-mailman.py script). > > At any rate, my main goal has been to use mailman for an Indian Guides > group, which for years has just been an email list of about 50 > people.? Mailman seemed like a great option to help ensure that all of the > members are accounted for in each email and to have archives available. > > The problem that I'm having is that for some people on the list, they don't > reliably get their emails.? Mostly, this is from members that are on gmail.com > or hotmail.com or in some cases ymail.com.? The "lost" emails get stuck in > their spam filter, and in some cases hotmail users don't get their emails at all. > > I did some testing with a practice list I created (sending to my own set of > yahoo, gmail accounts), where my yahoo account was sending to members > on a gmail account.? I found no issue sending directly from yahoo to gmail, > but from yahoo->mail list->gmail got caught in the gmail's spam filter.? The > gmail account spam folder would flag it and give me a note something to the > effect of "The sender's yahoo.com address could not be confirmed". > > Furthermore, in the gmail account, I can mark the email as "Not SPAM" but > that doesn't help on subsequent emails. > > > As an experiment, I changed a few settings (from default Yes to No), but > these didn't seem to make a difference: > - Should messages from this mailing list include the RFC 2369 (i.e. List-*) > headers? Yes is highly recommended. > - Should postings include the List-Post: header? > - Should the Sender header be rewritten for this mailing list to avoid stray > bounces? Yes is recommended. > > > My search for SPAM hasn't helped (most SPAM issues are related to actual > SPAM getting in from user accounts). > > Have others encountered this type of issue?? Are there any settings I can use > or steps I can take to help resolve this? > > > Thanks in advance. > > Sincerely, > -Alan > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman- > users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman- > users/brian%40emwd.com From jimpop at gmail.com Thu Aug 28 17:27:13 2014 From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 11:27:13 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] DNS error behaviour with DMARC In-Reply-To: <53FDFF4E.7080603@pitt.edu> References: <53FDFF4E.7080603@pitt.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Jeff White wrote: > 2. What is Mailman's behaviour if the query fails (e.g. times out)? The msg is passed through as if there was no DMARC check. (Yes, it's known that it is possible for a miscreant to DDoS domain.tld's DNS servers and then send you an email From domain.tld) > ... but what happens to the post when DNSException is thrown? Same as above. > If someone can point me to the file that holds this code I can review it and > report what the behaviour is. It's in Mailman/Utils.py Any and all improvements, suggestions, criticisms, etc. are welcome. -Jim P. From pshute at nuw.org.au Thu Aug 28 19:07:26 2014 From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 03:07:26 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters In-Reply-To: <3d0201cfc2cc$094fb7d0$1bef2770$@emwd.com> References: <1409209089.44385.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <3d0201cfc2cc$094fb7d0$1bef2770$@emwd.com> Message-ID: <05763406-5B14-4E3A-95AD-E160850B276E@nuw.org.au> > On 29 Aug 2014, at 1:25 am, "Brian Carpenter" wrote: > > We were/are having issues emailing Gmail users when using the mung setting > so we are now instructing our mailman clients to use the "Wrap Message" > setting. Google considers any email that breaks the 5322 RFC standard to be > a violation of their best practices for sending bulk mail. Also you can use > the following form to talk to Google: What were the gmail issues, Brian? We're using munging on yahoo and aol messages, and haven't seen any problems so far, apart from inconsistent Reply All behaviour of some mail clients. Peter Shute From brian at emwd.com Thu Aug 28 19:22:36 2014 From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 13:22:36 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters In-Reply-To: <05763406-5B14-4E3A-95AD-E160850B276E@nuw.org.au> References: <1409209089.44385.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <3d0201cfc2cc$094fb7d0$1bef2770$@emwd.com> <05763406-5B14-4E3A-95AD-E160850B276E@nuw.org.au> Message-ID: <404701cfc2e4$a9948a50$fcbd9ef0$@emwd.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Shute [mailto:pshute at nuw.org.au] > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 1:07 PM > To: Brian Carpenter > Cc: Alan Meyer; Mailman-Users at python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters > > > On 29 Aug 2014, at 1:25 am, "Brian Carpenter" wrote: > > > > We were/are having issues emailing Gmail users when using the mung > setting > > so we are now instructing our mailman clients to use the "Wrap Message" > > setting. Google considers any email that breaks the 5322 RFC standard to > be > > a violation of their best practices for sending bulk mail. Also you can use > > the following form to talk to Google: > > What were the gmail issues, Brian? We're using munging on yahoo and aol > messages, and haven't seen any problems so far, apart from inconsistent > Reply All behaviour of some mail clients. > > Peter Shute Sporadic blocking from Gmail's mail servers but with no error message. Since Google considers breaking 5322 a bad practice, I am guessing that using mung may be related to these random blocking. But I am guessing but since recommending to our clients on our mailman servers, to start using "wrap message" via the Sender Filters page, we have seen Gmail delivery improvements and on some servers, the random blocking has cleared up entirely. I have submitted a ticket with Google but am still waiting to hear back from them so hopefully I will get a definitive answer to what was going on. Brian Carpenter EMWD.com Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years. T: 336.755.0685 E: brian at emwd.com www.emwd.com From pshute at nuw.org.au Fri Aug 29 00:49:17 2014 From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 08:49:17 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters In-Reply-To: <404701cfc2e4$a9948a50$fcbd9ef0$@emwd.com> References: <1409209089.44385.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <3d0201cfc2cc$094fb7d0$1bef2770$@emwd.com> <05763406-5B14-4E3A-95AD-E160850B276E@nuw.org.au> <404701cfc2e4$a9948a50$fcbd9ef0$@emwd.com> Message-ID: So no bouncing? That's good, it means our Yahoo/AOL subscribers can't do any damage, and have another reason to change addresses. I haven't tried the wrapping option, but I'm not keen on it because of anticipated client issues with them. Peter Shute > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Carpenter [mailto:brian at emwd.com] > Sent: Friday, 29 August 2014 3:23 AM > To: Peter Shute > Cc: 'Alan Meyer'; Mailman-Users at python.org > Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient > spam filters > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Peter Shute [mailto:pshute at nuw.org.au] > > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 1:07 PM > > To: Brian Carpenter > > Cc: Alan Meyer; Mailman-Users at python.org > > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam > > filters > > > > > On 29 Aug 2014, at 1:25 am, "Brian Carpenter" > wrote: > > > > > > We were/are having issues emailing Gmail users when using the mung > > setting > > > so we are now instructing our mailman clients to use the > "Wrap Message" > > > setting. Google considers any email that breaks the 5322 RFC > > > standard to > > be > > > a violation of their best practices for sending bulk > mail. Also you > > > can > use > > > the following form to talk to Google: > > > > What were the gmail issues, Brian? We're using munging on yahoo and > > aol messages, and haven't seen any problems so far, apart from > > inconsistent Reply All behaviour of some mail clients. > > > > Peter Shute > > Sporadic blocking from Gmail's mail servers but with no error > message. Since Google considers breaking 5322 a bad practice, > I am guessing that using mung may be related to these random > blocking. But I am guessing but since recommending to our > clients on our mailman servers, to start using "wrap message" > via the Sender Filters page, we have seen Gmail delivery > improvements and on some servers, the random blocking has > cleared up entirely. I have submitted a ticket with Google > but am still waiting to hear back from them so hopefully I > will get a definitive answer to what was going on. > > > Brian Carpenter > EMWD.com > > Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years. > > T: 336.755.0685 > E: brian at emwd.com > www.emwd.com > > From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Aug 29 07:00:32 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 14:00:32 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters In-Reply-To: <1409209089.44385.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1409209089.44385.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <877g1rc2kv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Alan Meyer writes: > At any rate, my main goal has been to use mailman for an Indian > Guides group, which for years has just been an email list of about > 50 people.? Mailman seemed like a great option to help ensure that > all of the members are accounted for in each email and to have > archives available. The Mailman developer community thanks you for the compliment! > The problem that I'm having is that for some people on the list, > they don't reliably get their emails.? Mostly, this is from members > that are on gmail.com or hotmail.com or in some cases ymail.com. Members who are sending from Gmail will never receive their own mail via the list. Gmail considers it a duplicate of the message in the Sent folder, and discards the list message. This is not what you are reporting, but may account for some of your members' reports. For the senders you mention above (gmail, hotmail, and ymail), none has a DMARC policy. (gmail and ymail have p=none, and hotmail doesn't have a policy at all.) For those senders, DMARC is not the reason your subscribers are losing mail. The most likely issue that you or your host can affect is failing to use DKIM and SPF to authenticate your list. However, if in ymail.com you are including yahoo.com, yahoo.com *does* have a p=reject policy, and most users on the large email providers will either not receive the mail at all (probably hotmail and ymail) or it will end up in Spam (most of the time for gmail). Mail sent from yahoo.com will definitely be discarded or rejected by many recipient's hosts, and GMail will put it in Spam even if it passes all their other filters. > The "lost" emails get stuck in their spam filter, and in some cases > hotmail users don't get their emails at all. > > I did some testing with a practice list I created (sending to my > own set of yahoo, gmail accounts), where my yahoo account was > sending to members on a gmail account. As mentioned above, yahoo.com != ymail.com. I recommend that you tell your Yahoo! users to get another mail account. Not only is it a PITA for everybody else to receive their mail, but the reason that Yahoo! uses p=reject is that they leaked several million users' contact lists to criminals. I don't know if they told the affected users that their data was leaked, but I hope so. I recommend using Mailman 2.1.18-1, and setting dmarc_moderation_action to 'Wrap Message'. This affects only yahoo.com and aol.com senders's messages, and a variable number of recipients whose email clients can't handle those messages easily (this is what Peter Shute is talking about, I can give you some details if you ask). > I found no issue sending directly from yahoo to gmail, but from > yahoo->mail list->gmail got caught in the gmail's spam filter. ?> The gmail account spam folder would flag it and give me a note > something to the effect of "The sender's yahoo.com address could > not be confirmed". Indeed, that looks like DMARC. > Furthermore, in the gmail account, I can mark the email as "Not > SPAM" but that doesn't help on subsequent emails. No, it won't, because yahoo.com has REAL problems with spam appearing to originate at yahoo.com. (The spammers have potential for delivery of millions of spam messages per minute, but they don't waste their resources on spoofing senders from domains using p=reject). > As an experiment, I changed a few settings (from default Yes to > No), but these didn't seem to make a difference: > - Should messages from this mailing list include the RFC 2369 > (i.e. List-*) headers? Yes is highly recommended. > - Should postings include the List-Post: header? > - Should the Sender header be rewritten for this mailing list to > avoid stray bounces? Yes is recommended. None of these are relevant to spam filtering AFAIK (but I don't work for a large email provider so take that with a mineshaftful of salt). I think the most important steps you can take in general are (1) Have your MTA sign outgoing mailing list mail with DKIM. (2) Use SPF. (3) To mitigate the yahoo/aol p=reject policies, set dmarc_moderation_action to 'Wrap Message' (my preference, and according to Brian Carpenter's observations, GMail's as well), or to 'Munge From' (some people prefer this). If you don't know what MTA, DKIM, and SPF mean, you probably are using a hosting service. If they don't know what MTA, DKIM, and SPF mean, you should get a new one. (I like Brian Carpenter because he's often helpful to other users on this list, but I admit I've never actually used EMD, the hosting service he runs. FWIW, I'd say check them out. :-) If you want to know what all the acronyms stand for and what they are good for, feel free to ask. This is just the material I can think of as fast as I can type it. ;-) Except I can't say more about the Yahoo!/AOL contact list issues, just what I already wrote is public knowledge by now. Regards, Steve From Morgan.Ecklund at state.vt.us Fri Aug 29 21:28:15 2014 From: Morgan.Ecklund at state.vt.us (Ecklund, Morgan) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 19:28:15 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is being a processor sponge.... very slow delivery... Message-ID: Hello Listers, I migrated to a VMware ESXI environment from an old P3/512 MB mailman server (RedHat/sendmail, mailman had been upgraded to 2.1.x (I think)). The new environment is CentoOS 6.2 Postfix Mailman 2.1.16rc2. The new mailman environment is a processor sponge (clearly not an all-natural hand collected sponge either) So we noticed right off the bat that Mailman was maxing the processor and filling memory and later I found that it was filling up the hard drive... I had the ESXI admin add another processor and memory. Fixed the memory problem. Mailman.py is still taking up of 90 % of one processor. I sent a message at 10 :50 AM I can see from the maillog that it was received by the server at 10:50 and at 3:24 I have still not received the message that it is being moderated. Where is it hung up how can I clear it out? Morgan Ecklund From stephen at xemacs.org Sat Aug 30 06:44:19 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 13:44:19 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is being a processor sponge.... very slow delivery... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87zjema8nw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Ecklund, Morgan writes: > The new environment is CentoOS 6.2 Postfix Mailman 2.1.16rc2. If you have Yahoo! and/or AOL subscribers, you really want to upgrade to Mailman 2.1.18-1. > So we noticed right off the bat that Mailman was maxing the > processor and filling memory and later I found that it was filling > up the hard drive... Why do you think it's Mailman and not Postfix or your virus checker etc? None of these are normal behavior for Mailman, and I don't know of any common problem in Mailman that causes all three at once. My guess is a configuration problem that is causing a mail loop or something like that, or a permission problem. If it's a permission problem with Mailman, it can be detected and probably fixed with bin/check_perms. > Where is it hung up how can I clear it out? It seems likely something's hung up writing to disk. What is being written? What do the logs of the applications in the pipeline say? Regards, Steve From abwatson at me.com Fri Aug 29 20:10:57 2014 From: abwatson at me.com (Andrew Watson) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 11:10:57 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to identify subscribed address? Message-ID: <2A2471B1-4B10-49A3-AFDC-8A58BAE2F589@me.com> A subscriber has asked to be removed from my list. The addresses he suggests are not subscribed. I asked that he forward an example of a received message, with all headers visible, so that I could identify the problem address. But the subscriber address does not appear anywhere in the headers. Is there a way to figure out the problem address? -Andrew From stephen at xemacs.org Sat Aug 30 09:37:14 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 16:37:14 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to identify subscribed address? In-Reply-To: <2A2471B1-4B10-49A3-AFDC-8A58BAE2F589@me.com> References: <2A2471B1-4B10-49A3-AFDC-8A58BAE2F589@me.com> Message-ID: <87tx4ua0np.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Andrew Watson writes: > Is there a way to figure out the problem address? Non-invasive: Check the "Received" header fields of the message as received by the subscriber. Some relay hosts put the destination mailbox in those fields. If there are none or those you find don't appear in your subscriber list, check the hosts immediately downstream of Mailman (ie, the Received fields immediately above the Mailman host and see if any ring a bell with the subscriber. Then check for addresses at that host. Invasive but pretty certain: enable personalization temporarily for that list. This may require changing mm_cfg.py on the server to enable the personalization feature. Add the unsubscribe URL to the footer. Then the next post will have that URL in it and he will be able to unsubscribe himself. (He'll probably have forgotten his password, though, so you'll probably end up doing it even though he could retrieve his passord himself.) HTH From cedric at gn.apc.org Sun Aug 31 22:13:40 2014 From: cedric at gn.apc.org (Cedric Knight) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 21:13:40 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Conceal list address? Message-ID: <540381F4.1050200@gn.apc.org> Hello I'm a site admin. A list owner is using their list to send a newsletter to 30,000 recipients, with emergency moderation on, and an explicit Reply-To, and "anonymous_list". Some recipients if they need to reply will use "Reply", which usually goes to the intended sender. However, some will use "Reply All" or "Reply List" which will send a copy to the list address. These messages are held for moderation. The problem arises because it seems one of the list moderators tends to approve all pending replies - replies, Out of office messages, invitations to social networks. Despite repeated requests, undesired messages are continuing to be approved, which of course can confuse and annoy recipients. What I'd like to do is rewrite From and To lines to be the editorial address, like the Reply-To, so that the list address does not appear in the visible headers. Is there any way to do this in Mailman? (If not, I'm likely to do it in Postfix, and RFC 5321 3.7.1 seems to say this is legal.) Thanks CK