From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Sep  1 06:01:58 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 21:01:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing "Send questions and comments"
 mail-address without changing MAILMAN_OWNER
In-Reply-To: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713D7FDA5B96@P2KITMBX08WC04.unicph.domain>
References: <6DCC3E5DA06FE346B4DE4876C4F2713D7FDA5B96@P2KITMBX08WC04.unicph.domain>
Message-ID: <5222BC36.1020600@msapiro.net>

On 08/27/2013 02:00 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote:
> I am running a Mailman version 2.1.5 installation. I need to change the e-mail address that users are requested to send questions and comments to
> (messages/uk/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po: msgid "<p>(Send questions and comments to "
> 
> I still need other mails like non-handled bounces to be sent to the original MAILMAN_OWNER site admin address mailman at my-server.example.com
> 
> Is there a better way to achieve this than to change the line 280 in the Mailman/Cgi/admin.py file?
> 
> * Line 280: Link('mailto:%s' % mailman_owner, mailman_owner)


Unfortunately, the list admin overview page is not built from a template
so you need to modify the code either as you suggest or by changing line 267

    mailman_owner = Utils.get_site_email()

to

    mailman_owner = 'desired_user at example.com'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Sep  2 00:06:07 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2013 15:06:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a List from 2.1.11 (Mac) --> 2.1.9 (RHEL
 linux)
In-Reply-To: <p062408f0ce394f925ab7@[192.168.209.11]>
References: <p062408f0ce394f925ab7@[192.168.209.11]>
Message-ID: <5223BA4F.3040102@msapiro.net>

On 08/20/2013 10:05 AM, Drew Tenenholz wrote:
> 
> I've read through the FAQ 3.4 at
> <http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030682> which
> seems to indicate that it will generally be OK, but I'm looking for
> any changes that make my 2.1.11 list (which is in Cyrillic, by the
> way) not work well on the 2.1.9 installation (which does mostly
> English, and some Spanish & Portuguese, but nothing from a non-Roman
> alphabet right now).


I think a downgrade from 2.1.11 to 2.1.9 should be OK with no particular
gotchas. Also, I don't think there were any i18n changes that would
impact this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Sep  2 00:50:13 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2013 15:50:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation commands not working
In-Reply-To: <6959E62F-6DAE-4075-A621-C24EA3818208@simonszu.de>
References: <6959E62F-6DAE-4075-A621-C24EA3818208@simonszu.de>
Message-ID: <5223C4A5.909@msapiro.net>

On 08/22/2013 09:54 AM, Simon Szustkowski wrote:
> 
> i have a problem with a pending moderation request. Whenever i chose one of the four options for the pending email and submit the form, the page reloads and is still showing this email as pending. 


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ioA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Sep  2 06:27:38 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2013 21:27:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages disappear after moderator approval
In-Reply-To: <1038B5FDE919B5499BEF8BB67C0DD428A7FF66@PG-ADR-EXCH-12.adr.unbc.ca>
References: <1038B5FDE919B5499BEF8BB67C0DD428A7FF66@PG-ADR-EXCH-12.adr.unbc.ca>
Message-ID: <522413BA.5020608@msapiro.net>

On 08/22/2013 03:46 PM, Nicholas Waller wrote:
> We are seeing messages get dropped after passing through moderation
> on every one of our mailing lists.
> 
> == Moderation fails when performed on a *separate* webserver == Our
> Mailman environment is split across two servers, front-end and
> back-end. The back-end server handles Postfix and the Mailman
> qrunners, while the front-end server hosts Apache and the Mailman CGI
> scripts for moderating lists. The two servers share an NFS mount
> between them that includes all the shared Mailman data.


ALL? Exactly what directories are shared?


> All normal
> mail flow is working correctly, but when a list moderator logs into
> the web frontend and approves a message, it disappears without a
> trace.
> 
> 1. Postfix smtpd receives the incoming message over SMTP, then 2.
> Postfix smtpd delivers the message to /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman. 
> 3. Mailman marks writes to vette logfile (backend server) that
> message is held for approval. 4. List moderator uses CGI web
> interface to mark the message as approved. 5. Mailman writes an entry
> to vette logfile (on frontend server) saying held message approved. 


Implying the log files are not shared?


> 6. At this point, the .pck file related to the held message
> disappears, but nothing is delivered, and no further log entries are
> created.


Is there anything in Mailman's 'error' log(s)?

Is the Mailman/ directory shared? If not, what is the value of
VAR_PREFIX, QUEUE_DIR and INQUEUE_DIR in Mailman/Defaults.py or
Mailman/mm_cfg.py on the frontend? I.e., are the queues NFS shared with
the backend?

I'm guessing that the message gets put in the qfiles/in/ queue on the
frontend and this is not the queue processed by IncomingRunner on the
backend.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From perry at piermont.com  Mon Sep  2 19:52:04 2013
From: perry at piermont.com (Perry E. Metzger)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 13:52:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tuning bounce behavior with VERP
Message-ID: <20130902135204.5a9d9c1a@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>

I have a Postfix setup with VERP turned on for some lists that I run.
(I'm cool with the load using VERP with every message implies.)

I'd like to be able to tune bounce behavior, but the documentation for
this seems a bit spotty. What can I adjust to make things behave the
way I might like?

Perry
-- 
Perry E. Metzger		perry at piermont.com

From bsfinkel at att.net  Mon Sep  2 20:35:12 2013
From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S. Finkel)
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2013 13:35:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tuning bounce behavior with VERP
In-Reply-To: <20130902135204.5a9d9c1a@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>
References: <20130902135204.5a9d9c1a@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>
Message-ID: <5224DA60.2050600@att.net>

On 9/2/2013 12:52 PM, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> I have a Postfix setup with VERP turned on for some lists that I run.
> (I'm cool with the load using VERP with every message implies.)
>
> I'd like to be able to tune bounce behavior, but the documentation for
> this seems a bit spotty. What can I adjust to make things behave the
> way I might like?
>
> Perry
> -- Perry E. Metzger perry at piermont.com

If I remember all of the parameters correctly, you can set

     a) the bounce score when the bounce is determined "fatal"
        and the NDR message is sent to the list owner(s).
        The default is 5.0 .

I do not remember the other settings.  But the URL

      http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-admin/node25.html

lists them.  A fatal NDR (once per day) is
treated as a bounce, and increases the bounce score by 1.0 . A soft
bounce is counted as 0.5 .  When I was running a Mailman server I ran
a daily report that gave me for each list all of the subscribers with
a bounce score greater than 0.0; this was via a script written by Marc
Sapiro.

The list owner(s) does/do not see any NDR until the bounce score reaches
the maximum.

--Barry Finkel

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Sep  2 20:50:48 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2013 11:50:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tuning bounce behavior with VERP
In-Reply-To: <5224DA60.2050600@att.net>
References: <20130902135204.5a9d9c1a@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>
 <5224DA60.2050600@att.net>
Message-ID: <5224DE08.8020102@msapiro.net>

On 09/02/2013 11:35 AM, Barry S. Finkel wrote:

> A fatal NDR (once per day) is
> treated as a bounce, and increases the bounce score by 1.0 . A soft
> bounce is counted as 0.5 .


That's how it's documented, but it doesn't actually work that way. A
bounce is either fatal (scored as 1.0) or it is ignored. Nothing is
scored as 0.5.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From perry at piermont.com  Mon Sep  2 23:26:37 2013
From: perry at piermont.com (Perry E. Metzger)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 17:26:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tuning bounce behavior with VERP
In-Reply-To: <5224DE08.8020102@msapiro.net>
References: <20130902135204.5a9d9c1a@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>
 <5224DA60.2050600@att.net> <5224DE08.8020102@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20130902172637.7de23b2d@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 11:50:48 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
wrote:
> On 09/02/2013 11:35 AM, Barry S. Finkel wrote:
> 
> > A fatal NDR (once per day) is
> > treated as a bounce, and increases the bounce score by 1.0 . A
> > soft bounce is counted as 0.5 .
> 
> That's how it's documented, but it doesn't actually work that way. A
> bounce is either fatal (scored as 1.0) or it is ignored. Nothing is
> scored as 0.5.

I'm more interested in questions like how I tell Mailman that I'm
using VERP at all and such. Anything that is on the bounce
configuration page I can just do through the web interface. :)

Perry
-- 
Perry E. Metzger		perry at piermont.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep  3 00:09:43 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2013 15:09:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tuning bounce behavior with VERP
In-Reply-To: <20130902172637.7de23b2d@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>
References: <20130902135204.5a9d9c1a@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>
 <5224DA60.2050600@att.net> <5224DE08.8020102@msapiro.net>
 <20130902172637.7de23b2d@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>
Message-ID: <52250CA7.90107@msapiro.net>

On 09/02/2013 02:26 PM, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> 
> I'm more interested in questions like how I tell Mailman that I'm
> using VERP at all and such. Anything that is on the bounce
> configuration page I can just do through the web interface. :)


Your OP implied that you were doing the actual VERP in Postfix. If that
is the case, it should 'just work' without any Mailman changes at all as
long as your VERPed envelope sender for the LISTNAME list message to
user at example.com looks like

  LISTNAME-bounces+user=example.com at list.domain

I.e., Postfix VERP delimiters are '+='. This is parsed by

VERP_REGEXP =
r'^(?P<bounces>[^+]+?)\+(?P<mailbox>[^=]+)=(?P<host>[^@]+)@.*$'


If your VERPed envelope sender is different, you will need to set
VERP_REGEXP in mm_cfg.py to parse it correctly.

Also see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/D4CE>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From karra.etc at gmail.com  Tue Sep  3 07:50:06 2013
From: karra.etc at gmail.com (Sriram Karra)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 11:20:06 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable all restrictions on posting
Message-ID: <CAFkt3UNAQHw9TfYbrEgW5y4UYLd6TDfs_YJYNMGVNmFGYGHudw@mail.gmail.com>

I have installed mailman only for my company use. I would like to remove
all posting restrictions if the incoming email is coming from our mail
server. Is there an easy way of doing this for all lists?

From tim at yingtong.co.uk  Mon Sep  2 17:42:21 2013
From: tim at yingtong.co.uk (Tim Walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 16:42:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing disclaimers/specific text in body
Message-ID: <42E3255E-A4E7-40FB-A518-1DE9CF795884@yingtong.co.uk>

Hi, I have a longrunning mailman mailing list (circa 15yrs) where increasing numbers of members are subscribed from @nhs.net addresses (members/workers of the British NHS)

Recently the NHS email service has in its wisdom decided to add a couple of disclaimers to every message that passess through its service and I can't seem to get a way of removing them and was hoping for some advice.  I'd rather not use third party add-ons if possible.  I have no control over the addition of the disclaimers.  I have little control over the behaviour of my members re tendency to top post, not snip irrelevant posts etc.  I merge the posts into a fudforum forum to act as a public archive, and sometime posting source.

I am using v2.1.9 (via webmin)

Thanks

The two "disclaimers" are as follows

This one NHS.net top posts

---
This message was sent from an email address external to NHSmail but gives the appearance of being from an NHSmail (@nhs.net) address. The recipient should verify the sender and content before acting upon information contained within. 

The identified sender is emis-list-bounces at emisnug.net
---

This one they bottom post

********************************************************************************************************************

This message may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient please inform the sender that you have received the message in error before deleting it.
Please do not disclose, copy or distribute information in this e-mail or take any action in reliance on its contents:
to do so is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.

Thank you for your co-operation.

NHSmail is the secure email and directory service available for all NHS staff in England and Scotland NHSmail is approved for exchanging patient data and other sensitive information with NHSmail and GSi recipients NHSmail provides an email address for your career in the NHS and can be accessed anywhere

********************************************************************************************************************

And finally this is added by the list itself which I would quite like to scrub when requoted

--
Emis-list mailing list
Emis-list at emisnug.net
To unsubscribe or amend your details follow this link http://emisnug.net/mailman/listinfo/emis-list
or mailto:emis-list-request at emisnug.net?subject=help
Emis NUG Website http://www.emisnug.org.uk Follow us on twitter http://twitter.com/emis_nug Follow us on Facebook https://facebook.com/emisnugRegister for 2013 conference  http://emisnug.org.uk/node/532

From Benjamin_Joyner at ao.uscourts.gov  Tue Sep  3 15:37:55 2013
From: Benjamin_Joyner at ao.uscourts.gov (Benjamin_Joyner at ao.uscourts.gov)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:37:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list address
Message-ID: <OFBB391AA6.69179A2C-ON85257BDB.004A8CD4-85257BDB.004ADCA7@uscmail.uscourts.gov>

Hello,

When I send a message out through the mailing list, the "sent by" address 
alwayse seems to be "listname-bounces at hostname".  Is it possible to remove 
the "bounces apendation from the sent name so that it only shows 
listname at hostname?

Regards, Ben Joyner

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Sep  3 16:32:10 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 23:32:10 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Removing disclaimers/specific text in body
In-Reply-To: <42E3255E-A4E7-40FB-A518-1DE9CF795884@yingtong.co.uk>
References: <42E3255E-A4E7-40FB-A518-1DE9CF795884@yingtong.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87ioyiasd1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Tim Walter writes:

 > I am using v2.1.9 (via webmin)

Does that mean you have no access to add code to Mailman?

It's not possible to configure this kind of thing via web interfaces,
but if you can add fairly simple python script (which we can help you
write) to the Mailman installation, it should be possible to strip
these out.  You also have to change either the global configuration or
individual list configurations in a way that requires shell access.

From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Tue Sep  3 16:33:45 2013
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 10:33:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list address
In-Reply-To: <OFBB391AA6.69179A2C-ON85257BDB.004A8CD4-85257BDB.004ADCA7@uscmail.uscourt
 s.gov>
References: <OFBB391AA6.69179A2C-ON85257BDB.004A8CD4-85257BDB.004ADCA7@uscmail.uscourt
 s.gov>
Message-ID: <p0624081fce4ba0237977@[192.168.209.11]>

Ben --

Oddly enough, I've just been asked to do something similar.  In my case, the problem is that they want some of these headers changed around and we have 10-12 lists that sort of relate to each other.

For example, they kind of really want the same FROM: for a group of four lists.  At the same time, they want the digest subscribers for those four lists to see the FROM as "common_name-digest at domain.tld".

I've looked into the CookHeaders.py file, and that is certainly the place to make any changes BUT there I'm pretty certain that making the changes we're talking about will have downstream effects on:

1) automated processing of subscription requests sent via email
2) automated processing of bounces
3) processing of posts  (my lists are announce-only, so less imperative to me)
4) the upgrade process, which would wipe out the changes and would need to be re-implemented after upgrades (which means reading the new file and re-integrating the changes, not a simple re-insertion of the modified code).

Also, CookHeaders.py is a file used by ALL lists in a given installation and I don't think there is any list-by-list way to make changes.

So, if Mark or others with more experience have ideas on how to do this without upsetting the apple cart, I'd be happy to hear about them.


-- Drew Tenenholz
 


At 9:37 AM -0400 9/3/13, Benjamin_Joyner at ao.uscourts.gov wrote:
>Hello,
>
>When I send a message out through the mailing list, the "sent by" address
>alwayse seems to be "listname-bounces at hostname".  Is it possible to remove
>the "bounces apendation from the sent name so that it only shows
>listname at hostname?
>
>Regards, Ben Joyner

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue Sep  3 16:47:11 2013
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 15:47:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing disclaimers/specific text in body
In-Reply-To: <42E3255E-A4E7-40FB-A518-1DE9CF795884@yingtong.co.uk>
References: <42E3255E-A4E7-40FB-A518-1DE9CF795884@yingtong.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20130903144711.GK3728@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Sep 02, 2013 at 04:42:21PM +0100, Tim Walter wrote:
> Recently the NHS email service has in its wisdom decided to add a couple of disclaimers to every message that passess through its service and I can't seem to get a way of removing them and was hoping for some advice.  I'd rather not use third party add-ons if possible.  I have no control over the addition of the disclaimers.  I have little control over the behaviour of my members re tendency to top post, not snip irrelevant posts etc.  I merge the posts into a fudforum forum to act as a public archive, and sometime posting source.

postmaster at nhs.uk may be willing to whitelist your (lists) domain, to exclude them
from the "disclaimers" &c.

Have you asked, at all?

-- 
"Well, you didn't design your beard too well, did you? You really
 must try better with your beard." 
    -- DoE to a fashion designer

From Nicholas.Waller at unbc.ca  Tue Sep  3 18:56:21 2013
From: Nicholas.Waller at unbc.ca (Nicholas Waller)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 16:56:21 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages disappear after moderator approval
In-Reply-To: <522413BA.5020608@msapiro.net>
References: <1038B5FDE919B5499BEF8BB67C0DD428A7FF66@PG-ADR-EXCH-12.adr.unbc.ca>
 <522413BA.5020608@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1038B5FDE919B5499BEF8BB67C0DD4280B42BD4A@PG-ADR-EXCH-12.adr.unbc.ca>

Thanks Mark, your guess was correct. The messages were getting put in the
qfiles/in/ queue on the frontend and never processed by IncomingRunner on
the backend. My resolution was to change *QUEUE_DIR config lines on both
servers to point to a shared NFS mount.

Now that you've clarified the problem, it seems like the misconfiguration
should have been obvious. However, it wasn't obvious to me, and I had
trouble finding guidance online about which directories should be shared. Is
there already an FAQ addressing this issue, and if not, would it be
reasonable to have one created?

For the sake of completeness, here are answers to your first questions.
- The only shared directories were DATA_DIR, LIST_DATA_DIR, VIRGINQUEUE_DIR,
and both of the ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR's.
- Yes, implying the log files were not shared. Is it normal and safe to have
multiple servers writing shared logfiles on an NFS mount?
- There were no entries in the "error" logs on either server.
- VAR_PREFIX = /var/lib/mailman
- QUEUE_DIR = /var/spool/mailman -- note this directory is not an NFS mount
- INQUEUE_DIR = /var/spool/mailman/in

--
Nic Waller
System Administrator
Phone 250-960-5919

-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+nicholas.waller=unbc.ca at python.org] On Behalf
Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 9:28 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages disappear after moderator approval

On 08/22/2013 03:46 PM, Nicholas Waller wrote:
> We are seeing messages get dropped after passing through moderation on 
> every one of our mailing lists.
> 
> == Moderation fails when performed on a *separate* webserver == Our 
> Mailman environment is split across two servers, front-end and 
> back-end. The back-end server handles Postfix and the Mailman 
> qrunners, while the front-end server hosts Apache and the Mailman CGI 
> scripts for moderating lists. The two servers share an NFS mount 
> between them that includes all the shared Mailman data.


ALL? Exactly what directories are shared?


> All normal
> mail flow is working correctly, but when a list moderator logs into 
> the web frontend and approves a message, it disappears without a 
> trace.
> 
> 1. Postfix smtpd receives the incoming message over SMTP, then 2.
> Postfix smtpd delivers the message to /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman. 
> 3. Mailman marks writes to vette logfile (backend server) that message 
> is held for approval. 4. List moderator uses CGI web interface to mark 
> the message as approved. 5. Mailman writes an entry to vette logfile 
> (on frontend server) saying held message approved.


Implying the log files are not shared?


> 6. At this point, the .pck file related to the held message 
> disappears, but nothing is delivered, and no further log entries are 
> created.


Is there anything in Mailman's 'error' log(s)?

Is the Mailman/ directory shared? If not, what is the value of VAR_PREFIX,
QUEUE_DIR and INQUEUE_DIR in Mailman/Defaults.py or Mailman/mm_cfg.py on the
frontend? I.e., are the queues NFS shared with the backend?

I'm guessing that the message gets put in the qfiles/in/ queue on the
frontend and this is not the queue processed by IncomingRunner on the
backend.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
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From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Sep  3 19:47:32 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2013 02:47:32 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  mailing list address
In-Reply-To: <OFBB391AA6.69179A2C-ON85257BDB.004A8CD4-85257BDB.004ADCA7@uscmail.uscourts.gov>
References: <OFBB391AA6.69179A2C-ON85257BDB.004A8CD4-85257BDB.004ADCA7@uscmail.uscourts.gov>
Message-ID: <87fvtlbxvv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Benjamin_Joyner at ao.uscourts.gov writes:

 > When I send a message out through the mailing list, the "sent by"
 > address alwayse seems to be "listname-bounces at hostname".  Is it
 > possible to remove the "bounces apendation from the sent name so
 > that it only shows listname at hostname?

It's technically possible, but you really don't want to do that,
because then all the various automatically-generated admin traffic,
which now can be automatically handled *because* "listname-bounces"
is a different mailbox, will be distributed to list members.[1]

The underlying issue is that the mail clients your list members are
using are poorly behaved by design (they do things differently from
all other clients in the history of email).  What well-behaved mail
clients do is display the From field (the actual author), and suppress
the Sender field and the envelope sender.[2]

I wish I could recommend switching email programs (they're most likely
Microsoft products, which are an attractive nuisance in several ways),
but it's not worth it.



Footnotes: 
[1]  Strictly speaking some of it will get caught by the "administrivia"
filter and the list owner will have to deal with it.  But it's pretty
much certain that a fair amount will make it through to the members,
confusing and annoying them, and possibly revealing somewhat private
information like So-and-so isn't reading their mail and their mailbox
overflowed.

[2]  This behavior makes a lot of sense, it's not just traditional.
It's quite analogous to the way that secretaries discretely indicate
that they sign routine correspondence on behalf of their bosses by
appending a slash and their initials (in lower case, even).  What
Microsoft email programs do is the equivalent of the secretary signing
letters with

             Lowly Secretary on behalf of Bigname Lawyer

Of course it's possible to find out the sinder information (with a
halfway decent mail program, anyway), but you only want to do that
when you're having mail problems.


From chadrebuck at gmail.com  Tue Sep  3 20:19:56 2013
From: chadrebuck at gmail.com (Chad Rebuck)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 14:19:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error when subscribing from web page
Message-ID: <CA+V5SC_VbmA-E_SGaBKP1P3ZT2K40NuoPHWVkt2VBnuFW7KKfA@mail.gmail.com>

Is this information helpful to post to the list or should I post this as a
new bug report.  I couldn't tell if a bug report was already out there at
https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman related to this issue.

Thanks.

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.15

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.


I copied this from var/lib/mailman/logs/error


[root at pogo logs]# grep 16339 error

Sep 03 13:33:37 2013 admin(16339):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

admin(16339): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.15 -----]

admin(16339): [----- Traceback ------]

admin(16339): Traceback (most recent call last):

admin(16339):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in
run_main

admin(16339):     main()

admin(16339):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 99,
in main

admin(16339):     process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata, language)

admin(16339):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 179,
in process_form

admin(16339):     mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote)

admin(16339):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 897, in
AddMember

admin(16339):     cookie = self.pend_new(Pending.SUBSCRIPTION, userdesc)

admin(16339):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 87, in
pend_new

admin(16339):     self.__save(db)

admin(16339):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 107, in
__save

admin(16339):     timestamp = evictions[cookie]

admin(16339): KeyError: 'one_last_digest'

admin(16339): [----- Python Information -----]

admin(16339): sys.version     =   2.7.5 (default, May 17 2013, 23:45:32)

admin(16339): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python2

admin(16339): sys.prefix      =   /usr

admin(16339): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr

admin(16339): sys.path        =   ['/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib',
'/usr/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/mailman/scripts', '/usr/lib/mailman',
'/usr/lib/python27.zip', '/usr/lib/python2.7/',
'/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-tk',
'/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-old', '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload',
'/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages']

admin(16339): sys.platform    =   linux2

admin(16339): [----- Environment Variables -----]

admin(16339):   HTTP_REFERER:
http://mail.a2-16v.com/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v-list

admin(16339):   SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.24 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.24
OpenSSL/1.0.1e DAV/2 PHP/5.4.16

admin(16339):   SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/subscribe

admin(16339):   SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.2.24 (Unix)
mod_ssl/2.2.24 OpenSSL/1.0.1e DAV/2 PHP/5.4.16 Server at
mail.a2-16v.comPort 80</address>

admin(16339):

admin(16339):   REQUEST_METHOD: POST

admin(16339):   PATH_INFO: /a2-16v-list

admin(16339):   HTTP_ORIGIN: http://mail.a2-16v.com

admin(16339):   SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1

admin(16339):   QUERY_STRING:

admin(16339):   CONTENT_LENGTH: 85

admin(16339):   HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1)
AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/29.0.1547.57 Safari/537.36

admin(16339):   HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive

admin(16339):   SERVER_NAME: mail.a2-16v.com

admin(16339):   REMOTE_ADDR: 144.160.98.31

admin(16339):   PATH_TRANSLATED: /srv/http/a2-16v-list

admin(16339):   SERVER_PORT: 80

admin(16339):   SERVER_ADDR: 192.168.1.150

admin(16339):   DOCUMENT_ROOT: /srv/http

admin(16339):   PYTHONPATH: /usr/lib/mailman

admin(16339):   SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/subscribe

admin(16339):   SERVER_ADMIN: chadrebuck at gmail.com

admin(16339):   HTTP_HOST: mail.a2-16v.com

admin(16339):   HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL: max-age=0

admin(16339):   REQUEST_URI: /mailman/subscribe/a2-16v-list

admin(16339):   HTTP_ACCEPT:
text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8

admin(16339):   GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1

admin(16339):   REMOTE_PORT: 34727

admin(16339):   HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-US,en;q=0.8

admin(16339):   CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded

admin(16339):   HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate,sdch

admin(16339):   UNIQUE_ID: UiYdcH8AAAEAACPeG6gAAAAI

From tim at yingtong.co.uk  Tue Sep  3 23:15:15 2013
From: tim at yingtong.co.uk (Tim Walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 22:15:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing disclaimers/specific text in body
In-Reply-To: <87ioyiasd1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <42E3255E-A4E7-40FB-A518-1DE9CF795884@yingtong.co.uk>
 <87ioyiasd1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <50F5D614-4996-4003-AEAB-0F408CFDFC5C@yingtong.co.uk>


On 3 Sep 2013, at 15:32, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

> Tim Walter writes:
> 
>> I am using v2.1.9 (via webmin)
> 
> Does that mean you have no access to add code to Mailman?
> 
> It's not possible to configure this kind of thing via web interfaces,
> but if you can add fairly simple python script (which we can help you
> write) to the Mailman installation, it should be possible to strip
> these out.  You also have to change either the global configuration or
> individual list configurations in a way that requires shell access.
> 

It is a dedicated server so I can theoretically get full access (though I do get rather nervous of destabilising things (I'm a doctor with an interest in IT rather than vice versa ?!?!?) )

I have managed to strip the disclaimers out from fudforum forum software which I use to archive and interface with the mailing list (it uses perl script to replace stuff) (You might argue with the sense of doing this with fudforum but it is what it is, and what users have requested!!!)

So the rough and ready perl I have found works there is

/\>.*\n/s

/\*\*\*(.*)\*\*\*/s

/\-\-\-(.*)\-\-\-/s

/\-\-\ .*532/s

(these remove the un-necessary (for the forum) quoted email content, the two disclaimers, and the terminal mailing list sigblock respectively if it helps at all)

Many thanks for any help
Tim



From dbrooks at mdah.state.ms.us  Tue Sep  3 22:48:06 2013
From: dbrooks at mdah.state.ms.us (Donny Brooks)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 15:48:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] announce only with attachments
Message-ID: <1796-52264b00-5-3b9f8340@111007735>

The way we use mailman is mostly for announce only lists. So I have it configured as per this site: http://wiki.lunarpages.com/MailMan_Announce_Only_Mailing_List. With that we only send out notifications to the patrons who have signed up for the various lists. How would I allow attachments and/or inline HTML with images? We have one list in particular where we are building two new museums and the staff would like to send picture updates to the lists. Should disabling convert html to plain text be enough? Am I missing any other settings? 
-- 

Donny B.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  4 04:58:12 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 19:58:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] announce only with attachments
In-Reply-To: <1796-52264b00-5-3b9f8340@111007735>
References: <1796-52264b00-5-3b9f8340@111007735>
Message-ID: <5226A1C4.9040103@msapiro.net>

On 09/03/2013 01:48 PM, Donny Brooks wrote:
> The way we use mailman is mostly for announce only lists. So I have it configured as per this site: http://wiki.lunarpages.com/MailMan_Announce_Only_Mailing_List. With that we only send out notifications to the patrons who have signed up for the various lists. How would I allow attachments and/or inline HTML with images? We have one list in particular where we are building two new museums and the staff would like to send picture updates to the lists. Should disabling convert html to plain text be enough? Am I missing any other settings? 
> 


Either set Content filtering -> filter_content to No which will pass
posts without doing any content filtering, or ensure that
pass_mime_types includes

multipart
text/plain
text/html

and either

image

to accept all image types or

image/jpeg
image/gif
image/png
...

to accept those image types you want, and also set both
collapse_alternatives and convert_html_to_plaintext to No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  4 05:35:31 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 20:35:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing disclaimers/specific text in body
In-Reply-To: <50F5D614-4996-4003-AEAB-0F408CFDFC5C@yingtong.co.uk>
References: <42E3255E-A4E7-40FB-A518-1DE9CF795884@yingtong.co.uk>
 <87ioyiasd1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <50F5D614-4996-4003-AEAB-0F408CFDFC5C@yingtong.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5226AA83.7050907@msapiro.net>

On 09/03/2013 02:15 PM, Tim Walter wrote:
> 
> It is a dedicated server so I can theoretically get full access (though I do get rather nervous of destabilising things (I'm a doctor with an interest in IT rather than vice versa ?!?!?) )


A Mailman custom handler, which I'm sure is the kind of thing Stephen
has in mind, can be implemented and then enabled for only a single test
list and only enabled globally or for some production lists after you
are confident that it works, so it shouldn't be destabilizing.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  4 06:43:19 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 21:43:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable all restrictions on posting
In-Reply-To: <CAFkt3UNAQHw9TfYbrEgW5y4UYLd6TDfs_YJYNMGVNmFGYGHudw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFkt3UNAQHw9TfYbrEgW5y4UYLd6TDfs_YJYNMGVNmFGYGHudw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5226BA67.6050806@msapiro.net>

On 09/02/2013 10:50 PM, Sriram Karra wrote:
> I have installed mailman only for my company use. I would like to remove
> all posting restrictions if the incoming email is coming from our mail
> server. Is there an easy way of doing this for all lists?


There are a couple of ways to do this. The obvious way is to put

^.*[@.]your\.company\.domain$

in Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> accept_these_nonmembers for
all lists. The script at <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/non_members>
can do this easily.

The problem with this approach is it will check the address in the From:
or Sender: header of the post and these are easily spoofed.

A better way would be a custom handler (see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>) that looks at the Received: headers of
the incoming post to determine the server that sent to the Mailman host,
and if this is your mail server, set
        msgdata['approved'] = 1
and
        msgdata['adminapproved'] = 1

This too has an issue because the handler must come before Moderate in
the pipeline which also puts it before Hold and will thus bypass all the
miscellaneous holds for posts from your mail server. This may or may not
be significant for you, but you did say "remove all posting
restrictions" so that may be what you want.

And before anyone asks, you can't use Privacy options...-> Spam filters
-> header_filter_rules for this because a rule action of Accept doesn't
mean 'accept this message'. It only means 'this message passes
header_filter_rules, do not consider any following header_filter_rules
that might have a different action'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  4 07:12:18 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 22:12:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages disappear after moderator approval
In-Reply-To: <1038B5FDE919B5499BEF8BB67C0DD4280B42BD4A@PG-ADR-EXCH-12.adr.unbc.ca>
References: <1038B5FDE919B5499BEF8BB67C0DD428A7FF66@PG-ADR-EXCH-12.adr.unbc.ca>
 <522413BA.5020608@msapiro.net>
 <1038B5FDE919B5499BEF8BB67C0DD4280B42BD4A@PG-ADR-EXCH-12.adr.unbc.ca>
Message-ID: <5226C132.4060904@msapiro.net>

On 09/03/2013 09:56 AM, Nicholas Waller wrote:
> 
> Now that you've clarified the problem, it seems like the misconfiguration
> should have been obvious. However, it wasn't obvious to me, and I had
> trouble finding guidance online about which directories should be shared. Is
> there already an FAQ addressing this issue, and if not, would it be
> reasonable to have one created?


My advice would be for standard GNU Mailman to share all the mutable
data which is everything in var_prefix which is all of the directories
archives/, data/, lists/, locks/, logs/, qfiles/ and spam/, however you
have a Scientific Linux (Red Hat derivative) package, so see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/KYCB> for how these map to your install.

There is a FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/wgB0> that addresses this
somewhat. It might need some additions. Do see all the links.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  4 07:33:30 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 22:33:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error when subscribing from web page
In-Reply-To: <CA+V5SC_VbmA-E_SGaBKP1P3ZT2K40NuoPHWVkt2VBnuFW7KKfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+V5SC_VbmA-E_SGaBKP1P3ZT2K40NuoPHWVkt2VBnuFW7KKfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5226C62A.4090107@msapiro.net>

On 09/03/2013 11:19 AM, Chad Rebuck wrote:
> Is this information helpful to post to the list or should I post this as a
> new bug report.  I couldn't tell if a bug report was already out there at
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman related to this issue.
...
> admin(16339):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 107, in
> __save
> 
> admin(16339):     timestamp = evictions[cookie]
> 
> admin(16339): KeyError: 'one_last_digest'


It looks to me like the lists/a2-16v-list/pending.pck file is corrupt.

Do other lists work?

What does Mailman's

bin/dumpdb lists/a2-16v-list/pending.pck

show? It looks like there is a key of 'one_last_digest', but there is no
such key in the 'evictions' sub-dictionary. This is a bogus key. I have
no idea how it got there (one_last_digest is a list attribute; it should
never be a key in the pending database). I'm sure that just removing
lists/a2-16v-list/pending.pck will fix the problem, but you will lose
any pending requests, but there may not be any depending on how long
this has gone on. The script at
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_pending> may help identify them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From chadrebuck at gmail.com  Wed Sep  4 15:10:26 2013
From: chadrebuck at gmail.com (Chad Rebuck)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 09:10:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error when subscribing from web page
In-Reply-To: <5226C62A.4090107@msapiro.net>
References: <CA+V5SC_VbmA-E_SGaBKP1P3ZT2K40NuoPHWVkt2VBnuFW7KKfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5226C62A.4090107@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CA+V5SC_9PPA=zqH8bnSd=SFErf7JP1YGmBBDPfyT3wKht197KQ@mail.gmail.com>

Resending email to include mailman-users at python.org.

I only run one list so I didn't have a list to check against.  The pending
file has quite a lot of output.  I'll send the output after I clean the
email addresses and passwords.

The list_pending script shows:

[root at pogo bin]# python2 list_pending -v a2-16v-list
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "list_pending", line 173, in <module>
    main()
  File "list_pending", line 147, in main
    evictions = pending['evictions']
KeyError: 'evictions'
[root at pogo bin]#

I moved lists/a2-16v-list/pending.pck to another folder and I was
immediately able to subscribe via the web.

Thanks for the suggestion.


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 09/03/2013 11:19 AM, Chad Rebuck wrote:
> > Is this information helpful to post to the list or should I post this as
> a
> > new bug report.  I couldn't tell if a bug report was already out there at
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman related to this issue.
> ...
> > admin(16339):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 107, in
> > __save
> >
> > admin(16339):     timestamp = evictions[cookie]
> >
> > admin(16339): KeyError: 'one_last_digest'
>
>
> It looks to me like the lists/a2-16v-list/pending.pck file is corrupt.
>
> Do other lists work?
>
> What does Mailman's
>
> bin/dumpdb lists/a2-16v-list/pending.pck
>
> show? It looks like there is a key of 'one_last_digest', but there is no
> such key in the 'evictions' sub-dictionary. This is a bogus key. I have
> no idea how it got there (one_last_digest is a list attribute; it should
> never be a key in the pending database). I'm sure that just removing
> lists/a2-16v-list/pending.pck will fix the problem, but you will lose
> any pending requests, but there may not be any depending on how long
> this has gone on. The script at
> <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_pending> may help identify them.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/chadrebuck%40gmail.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  4 17:26:43 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2013 08:26:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error when subscribing from web page
In-Reply-To: <CA+V5SC_9PPA=zqH8bnSd=SFErf7JP1YGmBBDPfyT3wKht197KQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+V5SC_VbmA-E_SGaBKP1P3ZT2K40NuoPHWVkt2VBnuFW7KKfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5226C62A.4090107@msapiro.net>
 <CA+V5SC_9PPA=zqH8bnSd=SFErf7JP1YGmBBDPfyT3wKht197KQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52275133.5060404@msapiro.net>

On 09/04/2013 06:10 AM, Chad Rebuck wrote:
> The
> pending file has quite a lot of output.  I'll send the output after I
> clean the email addresses and passwords.


That may not be necessary.


> The list_pending script shows:
> 
> [root at pogo bin]# python2 list_pending -v a2-16v-list
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "list_pending", line 173, in <module>
>     main()
>   File "list_pending", line 147, in main
>     evictions = pending['evictions']
> KeyError: 'evictions'
> [root at pogo bin]#
> 
> I moved lists/a2-16v-list/pending.pck to another folder and I was
> immediately able to subscribe via the web.  
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion.


I don't think the pending.pck file in an actual pending database at all.

Try running

bin/dumpdb lists/a2-16v-list/config.pck

and see if the output is similar to what you got for the pending.pck. If
so, some how a config.pck got copied to or saved as pending.pck.

In any case, I probably won't be able to tell how the corruption
occurred, but I don't think it's due to a Mailman bug.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From chadrebuck at gmail.com  Wed Sep  4 20:04:50 2013
From: chadrebuck at gmail.com (Chad Rebuck)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 14:04:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error when subscribing from web page
In-Reply-To: <52275133.5060404@msapiro.net>
References: <CA+V5SC_VbmA-E_SGaBKP1P3ZT2K40NuoPHWVkt2VBnuFW7KKfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5226C62A.4090107@msapiro.net>
 <CA+V5SC_9PPA=zqH8bnSd=SFErf7JP1YGmBBDPfyT3wKht197KQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <52275133.5060404@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CA+V5SC_5t3P17OrcW21D6req=XmBc7+JP4ozqKVp5pCK_xTYow@mail.gmail.com>

The output does look very similar but I wouldn't have any idea how the
config.pck copied over.  Perhaps something in the mailman package (
http://archlinuxarm.org/packages) I installed copied files incorrectly and
caused this trouble.


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 09/04/2013 06:10 AM, Chad Rebuck wrote:
> > The
> > pending file has quite a lot of output.  I'll send the output after I
> > clean the email addresses and passwords.
>
>
> That may not be necessary.
>
>
> > The list_pending script shows:
> >
> > [root at pogo bin]# python2 list_pending -v a2-16v-list
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "list_pending", line 173, in <module>
> >     main()
> >   File "list_pending", line 147, in main
> >     evictions = pending['evictions']
> > KeyError: 'evictions'
> > [root at pogo bin]#
> >
> > I moved lists/a2-16v-list/pending.pck to another folder and I was
> > immediately able to subscribe via the web.
> >
> > Thanks for the suggestion.
>
>
> I don't think the pending.pck file in an actual pending database at all.
>
> Try running
>
> bin/dumpdb lists/a2-16v-list/config.pck
>
> and see if the output is similar to what you got for the pending.pck. If
> so, some how a config.pck got copied to or saved as pending.pck.
>
> In any case, I probably won't be able to tell how the corruption
> occurred, but I don't think it's due to a Mailman bug.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep  5 06:59:39 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2013 21:59:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list address
In-Reply-To: <p0624081fce4ba0237977@[192.168.209.11]>
References: <OFBB391AA6.69179A2C-ON85257BDB.004A8CD4-85257BDB.004ADCA7@uscmail.uscourt
 s.gov> <p0624081fce4ba0237977@[192.168.209.11]>
Message-ID: <52280FBB.60909@msapiro.net>

On 09/03/2013 07:33 AM, Drew Tenenholz wrote:
> 
> For example, they kind of really want the same FROM: for a group of
> four lists.  At the same time, they want the digest subscribers for
> those four lists to see the FROM as "common_name-digest at domain.tld".


So for 'message' subscribers the From: should be rewritten from the
poster to the common name?


> I've looked into the CookHeaders.py file, and that is certainly the
> place to make any changes BUT there I'm pretty certain that making
> the changes we're talking about will have downstream effects on:


I would use a custom handler rather than CookHeaders, but neither will
take care of the digests. Digests would require mods to
Mailman.Handlers.ToDigest.send_i18n_digests(). The mods could be simple
where mlist.GetRequestEmail() in

    mimemsg['From'] = mlist.GetRequestEmail()
and
    rfc1153msg['From'] = mlist.GetRequestEmail()

is replaced by get_munged_from(mlist) where get_munged_from is something
imported from your custom handler, both in the interest of making the
change to ToDigest.py as small as possible and DRY.


> 1) automated processing of subscription requests sent via email


They wouldn't be affected as they aren't processed through the handler
pipeline.


> 2) automated processing of bounces


The handler could set the 'envsender' attribute in the message metadata
to the original LISTNAME-bounces address, but this isn't necessary
because the default comes from a list method and isn't affected by headers.


> 3) processing of posts  (my lists are announce-only, so less
imperative to me)


I don't see this as an issue as long as the From: munging Handler comes
after Moderate (and maybe Hold for admindb From: display) in the pipeline.


> 4) the upgrade process, which would wipe out the changes and would need
to be
> re-implemented after upgrades (which means reading the new file and
re-integrating
> the changes, not a simple re-insertion of the modified code).


A custom Handler doesn't have this issue.


> Also, CookHeaders.py is a file used by ALL lists in a given
> installation and I don't think there is any list-by-list way to make
> changes.


Custom handlers can be enabled on a list by list basis.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> on custom handlers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From tianzy1225 at thundersoft.com  Mon Sep  9 05:34:32 2013
From: tianzy1225 at thundersoft.com (Tian Zhiying)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 11:34:32 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I know what I joined the mailing list ?
Message-ID: <201309091134272551146@thundersoft.com>

Hello 

I have subscribed a lot of mailing list, but how can I know what I joined the mailing list ?

And, Mailman and OpenLDAP can integrate?

Thanks~




Tian Zhiying

From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Mon Sep  9 17:39:37 2013
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman Admin)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 17:39:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I know what I joined the mailing list ?
In-Reply-To: <201309091134272551146@thundersoft.com>
References: <201309091134272551146@thundersoft.com>
Message-ID: <522DEBB9.6090509@uni-konstanz.de>

Hello Tian Zhiying


Am 2013-09-09 05:34, schrieb Tian Zhiying:
> 
> I have subscribed a lot of mailing list, but how can I know what I joined the mailing list ?
> 

You will know the moment you get emails from each list :-)

You will at least for mailman-users get a monthly reminder email.


> And, Mailman and OpenLDAP can integrate?
> 

No, mailman uses its own authentication.

AFAIK this is planned for Mailman 3 (which is in beta now).


Kind regards,
Christian Mack



From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Mon Sep  9 18:02:20 2013
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 17:02:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I know what I joined the mailing list ?
In-Reply-To: <522DEBB9.6090509@uni-konstanz.de>
References: <201309091134272551146@thundersoft.com>
 <522DEBB9.6090509@uni-konstanz.de>
Message-ID: <20130909160219.GN3728@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 05:39:37PM +0200, Mailman Admin wrote:
> You will at least for mailman-users get a monthly reminder email.

Unless you've switched those off (I do).

> > And, Mailman and OpenLDAP can integrate?
> 
> No, mailman uses its own authentication.

There's a third-party plugin -- first hit for me on Google with
"Mailman ldap" (and then one link to click)

    https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558093

-- 
"I was not lying. I said things that later on seemed to be untrue."
    -- Richard Nixon, on Watergate, 1978

From mydrum9 at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 18:10:58 2013
From: mydrum9 at gmail.com (Aaron Dolgin)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 09:10:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Storing email address in MySQL
Message-ID: <-7113094325997496849@unknownmsgid>

Is it possible to have mailman store the email addresses it sends mail to
in a database such as MySQL?


Aaron Dolgin
(661) 400-6301
VP of Business & Marketing
Electrical Lead
Webmaster
Hart District Robotics Team 691
Team691.org <http://team691.org/>
Follow us on Twitter @HartBurn691

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep 10 02:49:07 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 17:49:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I know what I joined the mailing list ?
In-Reply-To: <20130909160219.GN3728@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <201309091134272551146@thundersoft.com>
 <522DEBB9.6090509@uni-konstanz.de>
 <20130909160219.GN3728@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <522E6C83.3050207@msapiro.net>

On 09/09/2013 09:02 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote:
> 
> There's a third-party plugin -- first hit for me on Google with
> "Mailman ldap" (and then one link to click)
> 
>     https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558093


That's the MySQL MemberAdaptor. The LDAP MemberAdaptor is at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558106>.

There is also a FAQ about these at <http://wiki.list.org/x/VIDt>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep 10 02:49:55 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 17:49:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Storing email address in MySQL
In-Reply-To: <-7113094325997496849@unknownmsgid>
References: <-7113094325997496849@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <522E6CB3.1090705@msapiro.net>

On 09/09/2013 09:10 AM, Aaron Dolgin wrote:
> Is it possible to have mailman store the email addresses it sends mail to
> in a database such as MySQL?


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/VIDt>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mydrum9 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 02:53:43 2013
From: mydrum9 at gmail.com (Aaron Dolgin)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 17:53:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Storing email address in MySQL
In-Reply-To: <522E6CB3.1090705@msapiro.net>
References: <-7113094325997496849@unknownmsgid> <522E6CB3.1090705@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAOirhQgGS4mmzYqr0yeeLiFmTzX4q0pNa8_UuFGo=XorctekgQ@mail.gmail.com>

my hosting provider has mailman preinstalled. am i suppose to have access
to those files since mailman is open source?



*Aaron Dolgin*
(661) 400-6301

VP Business & Marketing
Webmaster
Electrical Lead

Project 691 Robotics
Team691.org  <http://team691.org/>
Follow us on Twitter @Project691 <http://twitter.com/Project691>


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 09/09/2013 09:10 AM, Aaron Dolgin wrote:
> > Is it possible to have mailman store the email addresses it sends mail to
> > in a database such as MySQL?
>
>
> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/VIDt>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mydrum9%40gmail.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep 10 03:05:55 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 18:05:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Storing email address in MySQL
In-Reply-To: <CAOirhQgGS4mmzYqr0yeeLiFmTzX4q0pNa8_UuFGo=XorctekgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <-7113094325997496849@unknownmsgid> <522E6CB3.1090705@msapiro.net>
 <CAOirhQgGS4mmzYqr0yeeLiFmTzX4q0pNa8_UuFGo=XorctekgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <522E7073.80808@msapiro.net>

On 09/09/2013 05:53 PM, Aaron Dolgin wrote:
> my hosting provider has mailman preinstalled. am i suppose to have
> access to those files since mailman is open source?


I am neither a lawyer nor an expert on the GPL, so take my advice with
the proverbial grain of salt.

In any case, even if the GPL requires the provider to give you access to
the source and any of the provider's modifications, it certainly doesn't
require the provider to allow you to modify its software or to install
any modifications you might make.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From renaud.courvoisier at ecole-art-aix.fr  Tue Sep 10 15:15:35 2013
From: renaud.courvoisier at ecole-art-aix.fr (renaud courvoisier)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:15:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix error : user unknown "local" with mailman
Message-ID: <522F1B77.3010002@ecole-art-aix.fr>

just installed mailman and integrated it to postfix,
I tried to send a test mail to the list and recieved this error message :

Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
<local at mydomain.tld> (expanded from <mailman at listes.mydomain2.tld>): unknown user: "local"

in my /var/lib/mailman/data/transport-mailman I've :
# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Mon Sep  9 13:25:54 2013
mailman at listes.mydomain2.tld              local
mailman-admin at listes.mydomain2.tld        local
mailman-bounces at listes.mydomain2.tld      local
mailman-confirm at listes.mydomain2.tld      local
mailman-join at listes.mydomain2.tld         local
mailman-leave at listes.mydomain2.tld        local
mailman-owner at listes.mydomain2.tld        local
mailman-request at listes.mydomain2.tld      local
mailman-subscribe at listes.mydomain2.tld    local
mailman-unsubscribe at listes.mydomain2.tld  local
# STANZA END: mailman

I also have a /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual_to_transport script :
#!/bin/sh
sed -r -e 's/(^[^#]\S+\s+).+$/\1local/' $1 \
  > /var/lib/mailman/data/transport-mailman
/usr/sbin/postmap /var/lib/mailman/data/transport-mailman

A postconf -n reply :
postconf -n
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
append_dot_mydomain = no
biff = no
config_directory = /etc/postfix
content_filter = amavis:[127.0.0.1]:10024
default_transport = smtp
delay_warning_time = 1h
inet_interfaces = all
inet_protocols = ipv4
mailbox_size_limit = 51200000
mydestination = localhost.ovh.net, localhost, mydomain1.tld, mydomain2.tld, listes.mydomain2.tld
myhostname = mydomain1.tld
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 188.165.239.0/24 [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128
myorigin = /etc/mailname
readme_directory = no
receive_override_options = no_address_mappings
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_relay_domains.cf
relay_transport = relay
relayhost =
smtp_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtp_scache
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Debian/GNU)
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks,  permit_sasl_authenticated,  reject_non_fqdn_hostname,  reject_non_fqdn_sender,  reject_non_fqdn_recipient,  reject_unauth_destination,  reject_unauth_pipelining,  check_policy_service inet:127.0.0.1:10023,  reject_invalid_hostname  reject_unknown_sender_domain
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/ssl/certs/ssl-cert-snakeoil.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/ssl/private/ssl-cert-snakeoil.key
smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtpd_scache
smtpd_use_tls = yes
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/transport-mailman
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/transport-mailman
virtual_gid_maps = static:3000
virtual_mailbox_base = /home/facteur
virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_domains.cf
virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf
virtual_transport = dovecot
virtual_uid_maps = static:3000

The /etc/mailname file contains:
mydomain1.tld

The hostname is mydomain1.tld

Note : I virtualize domains and aliases with mysql and postfix works well.

What's wrong ?


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Sep 10 18:13:48 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 01:13:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Storing email address in MySQL
In-Reply-To: <CAOirhQgGS4mmzYqr0yeeLiFmTzX4q0pNa8_UuFGo=XorctekgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <-7113094325997496849@unknownmsgid> <522E6CB3.1090705@msapiro.net>
 <CAOirhQgGS4mmzYqr0yeeLiFmTzX4q0pNa8_UuFGo=XorctekgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87mwnk8xj7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Aaron Dolgin writes:

 > my hosting provider has mailman preinstalled. am i suppose to have access
 > to those files since mailman is open source?

That depends on exactly what you mean by "hosting provider".  If you
have contracted for the whole host (including a VM), and the
"preinstalled" software is done as a service for you, maybe.  (It's
not obvious, though, and IANAL.)

Mostly, it's a Catch-22.  You only receive GPL rights if you've
received at least some of the code already.  The common "virtual host"
service where you have your own domain name, and can upload content
for distribution by a webserver and can create email addresses and
mailing lists does not imply any GPL rights.


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep 10 18:45:25 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:45:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix error : user unknown "local" with
	mailman
In-Reply-To: <522F1B77.3010002@ecole-art-aix.fr>
References: <522F1B77.3010002@ecole-art-aix.fr>
Message-ID: <522F4CA5.10308@msapiro.net>

On 09/10/2013 06:15 AM, renaud courvoisier wrote:
> just installed mailman and integrated it to postfix,
> I tried to send a test mail to the list and recieved this error message :
> 
> Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
> <local at mydomain.tld> (expanded from <mailman at listes.mydomain2.tld>):
> unknown user: "local"
> 
> in my /var/lib/mailman/data/transport-mailman I've :
> # STANZA START: mailman
> # CREATED: Mon Sep  9 13:25:54 2013
> mailman at listes.mydomain2.tld              local
> mailman-admin at listes.mydomain2.tld        local
> mailman-bounces at listes.mydomain2.tld      local
> mailman-confirm at listes.mydomain2.tld      local
> mailman-join at listes.mydomain2.tld         local
> mailman-leave at listes.mydomain2.tld        local
> mailman-owner at listes.mydomain2.tld        local
> mailman-request at listes.mydomain2.tld      local
> mailman-subscribe at listes.mydomain2.tld    local
> mailman-unsubscribe at listes.mydomain2.tld  local
> # STANZA END: mailman
>
> I also have a /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual_to_transport script :
> #!/bin/sh
> sed -r -e 's/(^[^#]\S+\s+).+$/\1local/' $1 \
>  > /var/lib/mailman/data/transport-mailman
> /usr/sbin/postmap /var/lib/mailman/data/transport-mailman


Are you following the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ZoCj>? That is only
for very unusual situations.


> A postconf -n reply :
...
> virtual_alias_maps =
> mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/transport-mailman


The above appears to be the problem. The transport-mailman file is a
transport map, not a virtual alias map. the file referenced in
virtual_alias_maps should be virtual-mailman, but exactly how that plays
with your transport_maps is unclear.


What's in mm_cfg.py?

See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html> for the
recommended way to to this without transport maps for Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Wed Sep 11 09:45:29 2013
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:45:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix error : user unknown "local" with
	mailman
In-Reply-To: <522F1B77.3010002@ecole-art-aix.fr>
References: <522F1B77.3010002@ecole-art-aix.fr>
Message-ID: <20130911074529.GD2155@charite.de>

* renaud courvoisier <renaud.courvoisier at ecole-art-aix.fr>:
> just installed mailman and integrated it to postfix,
> I tried to send a test mail to the list and recieved this error message :
> 
> Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
> <local at mydomain.tld> (expanded from <mailman at listes.mydomain2.tld>): unknown user: "local"
> 
> in my /var/lib/mailman/data/transport-mailman I've :
> # STANZA START: mailman
> # CREATED: Mon Sep  9 13:25:54 2013
> mailman at listes.mydomain2.tld              local

local:

If /var/lib/mailman/data/transport-mailman is indeed used as
"transport_maps"

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt                   Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de        Campus Benjamin Franklin
http://www.charite.de              Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin
Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155

From adam at amyl.org.uk  Wed Sep 11 12:59:12 2013
From: adam at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 11:59:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I know what I joined the mailing list ?
In-Reply-To: <522E6C83.3050207@msapiro.net>
References: <201309091134272551146@thundersoft.com>
 <522DEBB9.6090509@uni-konstanz.de>
 <20130909160219.GN3728@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
 <522E6C83.3050207@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20130911105912.GP3728@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 05:49:07PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 09/09/2013 09:02 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote:
> > There's a third-party plugin -- first hit for me on Google with
> > "Mailman ldap" (and then one link to click)
> >     https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558093
> 
> That's the MySQL MemberAdaptor. The LDAP MemberAdaptor is at
> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558106>.

That'll teach me to skim plugins?

-- 
"I speak better English than this villain Bush."
    -- Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf (attrib.)

From perry at piermont.com  Thu Sep 12 17:34:11 2013
From: perry at piermont.com (Perry E. Metzger)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 11:34:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tuning bounce behavior with VERP
In-Reply-To: <5224DE08.8020102@msapiro.net>
References: <20130902135204.5a9d9c1a@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>
 <5224DA60.2050600@att.net> <5224DE08.8020102@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20130912113411.3a349dab@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 11:50:48 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
wrote:
> On 09/02/2013 11:35 AM, Barry S. Finkel wrote:
> 
> > A fatal NDR (once per day) is
> > treated as a bounce, and increases the bounce score by 1.0 . A
> > soft bounce is counted as 0.5 .
> 
> 
> That's how it's documented, but it doesn't actually work that way. A
> bounce is either fatal (scored as 1.0) or it is ignored. Nothing is
> scored as 0.5.
> 

So I'm having some trouble figuring out whether things are working
correctly. In particular, I seem to have users who are undeliverable
for weeks and yet don't seem to be being unsubed even though the
settings should be doing that.

Is there a good way to examine the database of bounce information
being stored so that I can tell what Mailman things the state for
such users is? 

Perry
-- 
Perry E. Metzger		perry at piermont.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep 13 01:46:07 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 16:46:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tuning bounce behavior with VERP
In-Reply-To: <20130912113411.3a349dab@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>
References: <20130902135204.5a9d9c1a@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>
 <5224DA60.2050600@att.net> <5224DE08.8020102@msapiro.net>
 <20130912113411.3a349dab@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>
Message-ID: <5232523F.6090706@msapiro.net>

On 09/12/2013 08:34 AM, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> 
> So I'm having some trouble figuring out whether things are working
> correctly. In particular, I seem to have users who are undeliverable
> for weeks and yet don't seem to be being unsubed even though the
> settings should be doing that.


If their delivery is disabled by bounce and not for some other reason,
and they are not being removed, the most likely explanation is
cron/disabled is not being run.

If they are not getting delivery disabled, check Mailman's 'bounce' log.
Also check the Postfix logs to see if bounces are returned and where
they are delivered.


> Is there a good way to examine the database of bounce information
> being stored so that I can tell what Mailman things the state for
> such users is? 


See, <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/get_bounce_info.py>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Sep 13 20:54:44 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:54:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Forcing New Archive
Message-ID: <auto-000124062746@mailfront4.g2host.com>

In the distant past I remember a setting in the Web UI to force a new 
archive volume.  I can't find anything in 2.1.15.  Has it gone away?

Dave


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep 13 22:05:02 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:05:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Forcing New Archive
In-Reply-To: <auto-000124062746@mailfront4.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000124062746@mailfront4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <52336FEE.5030708@msapiro.net>

On 09/13/2013 11:54 AM, David Andrews wrote:
> In the distant past I remember a setting in the Web UI to force a new
> archive volume.  I can't find anything in 2.1.15.  Has it gone away?


I don't think there has ever been such a setting. In any case, what
would it do? Assuming archive_volume_frequency is monthly, would it
split the current month into September part 1 and September part 2 in
the archive TOC and file system and why? Also, what would happen if you
rebuilt the archive?

Do you perhaps mean digest volume? If so, see Digest options in the web
admin UI.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From perry at piermont.com  Tue Sep 17 18:39:54 2013
From: perry at piermont.com (Perry E. Metzger)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 12:39:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] feedback when users are unsubscribed for bounces
Message-ID: <20130917123954.489ccaed@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>

Is there any easy way to get the "x has unsubscribed" messages to
distinguish when people are removed due to bounces from when they
leave a list of their own accord?

-- 
Perry E. Metzger		perry at piermont.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep 17 19:42:54 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 10:42:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] feedback when users are unsubscribed for bounces
In-Reply-To: <20130917123954.489ccaed@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>
References: <20130917123954.489ccaed@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>
Message-ID: <5238949E.70408@msapiro.net>

On 09/17/2013 09:39 AM, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> Is there any easy way to get the "x has unsubscribed" messages to
> distinguish when people are removed due to bounces from when they
> leave a list of their own accord?
> 


If the time stamp on the message is the time that cron/disabled runs
(default 09:00 server local time), it was probably due to bounce processing.

Other than that, the entry in the subscribe log will contain the
notation 'disabled address', and you could modify the
ApprovedDeleteMember method in $prefix/Mailman/MailList.py to put this
notation in the notice to the admin.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jimpop at gmail.com  Tue Sep 17 20:10:32 2013
From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 14:10:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] feedback when users are unsubscribed for bounces
In-Reply-To: <5238949E.70408@msapiro.net>
References: <20130917123954.489ccaed@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com>
 <5238949E.70408@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAGfsgR3pJe_tna0wwG6_dhGx5MtqkWUTnsy9K+TB2wEGRK+qMQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 09/17/2013 09:39 AM, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
>> Is there any easy way to get the "x has unsubscribed" messages to
>> distinguish when people are removed due to bounces from when they
>> leave a list of their own accord?
>>
>
>
> If the time stamp on the message is the time that cron/disabled runs
> (default 09:00 server local time), it was probably due to bounce processing.
>
> Other than that, the entry in the subscribe log will contain the
> notation 'disabled address', and you could modify the
> ApprovedDeleteMember method in $prefix/Mailman/MailList.py to put this
> notation in the notice to the admin.

Here's an archived 2.1x patch that I had that does this:

=== modified file 'Mailman/MailList.py'
--- Mailman/MailList.py 2012-06-20 23:32:30 +0000
+++ Mailman/MailList.py 2013-03-14 04:05:31 +0000
@@ -1020,6 +1022,8 @@
                 {"listname" : realname,
                  "member"   : formataddr((name, email)),
                  }, mlist=self)
+            if whence:
+                text = "%s\nReason: %s" % (text, whence)
             msg = Message.OwnerNotification(self, subject, text)
             msg.send(self)

@@ -1055,6 +1059,8 @@
                 {'member'  : name,
                  'listname': self.real_name,
                  }, mlist=self)
+            if whence:
+                text = "%s\nReason: %s" % (text, whence)
             msg = Message.OwnerNotification(self, subject, text)
             msg.send(self)
         if whence:



-Jim P.

From richard at KarmannGhia.org  Fri Sep 20 23:46:45 2013
From: richard at KarmannGhia.org (Richard)
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 14:46:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disaster recovery: fastest / best route advice
	sought
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309201352030.4123@KarmannGhia.org>


Hello All,

It's been a long time since I've been subscribed - haven't need any help; 
things just work. But now I'm in need.

Last Saturday, nearly a week ago, we lost a disk drive on a critical 
system - runs our email lists, among other vital services - and the road 
to recovery has been a rough road. I never thought it could take so long 
to get things back online... Big Picture; tomorrow our group has a big 
gathering and we haven't been able to email our community... We need to be 
emailing each other TODAY if we can!

On the one hand we desperately need our list for group communications, but 
on the other, I'm hoping not to have to backtrack too much later for a 
better configuration. I'm looking for best options - a balance between 
wall-clock-time to configure vs the quality of the solution - please don't 
be afraid to chime in now; later won't do any good!

If I could figure out how, "the best" would be if we could put the web 
services for our email list on a new "external" Fedora Core 19 system 
already up and providing web services and put mailman on an older FC 16 
"internal-only" email system that has already taken over the email load - 
that system may be "old" but it's got a lot of horsepower. The external 
"web" system could not easily take over the email because it presently 
forwards port 25, and there aren't any ready prospects that could do it.

The only other prospect is a vastly older "backup" web server (fc14) that 
I've thought for over two years could die at any moment. There are upgrade 
plans, but they won't happen soon enough for helping here. If forced to, I 
could maybe get it to serve in this duty - the heat load might kill it. 
Or, maybe I could add a network card and get it to serve as an additional 
gateway / firewall, and thus relieve the new FC 19 system of it's 
port-forwarding duties, and thereby let it handle both the email, list and 
web duties...

Another area I could use assistance with is versions! I have no idea what 
I'm in for! I DO have good backups of the dead system; how can I tell what 
version of mailman was even running? (I captured both /var/lib/mailman and 
/usr/lib/mailman before it was completely dead - it's unreadable now.) 
Aside from these two trees, what might I have NOT captured that I might 
want to find from backup? What issues might I have in "upgrading"? What's 
my fastest / best procedure? For example, do I just create new lists and 
populate them with the list members? And what about all those archives? 
Can I just plunk them into the tree and expec them to work? (I really 
don't look forward to merging archive trees!)

Any and all advice GREATFULLY RECEIVED! And, please be gentle if I've made 
some major gaff - at least I have good backups! -smile-

With kind regards,
Richard


--
Richard Troy, Founder & current President
The Karmann Ghia Club of North America
4200 Park Blvd, #151, Oakland CA 94602, USA

Richard at KarmannGhia.org, http://KarmannGhia.org/Richard/

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Sep 21 08:24:32 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 23:24:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disaster recovery: fastest / best route advice
 sought
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309201352030.4123@KarmannGhia.org>
References: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309201352030.4123@KarmannGhia.org>
Message-ID: <523D3BA0.10105@msapiro.net>

On 09/20/2013 02:46 PM, Richard wrote:
> 
> Another area I could use assistance with is versions! I have no idea
> what I'm in for! I DO have good backups of the dead system; how can I
> tell what version of mailman was even running? (I captured both
> /var/lib/mailman and /usr/lib/mailman before it was completely dead -
> it's unreadable now.)


cat /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Version.py and look at

MAJOR_REV = 2
MINOR_REV = 1
MICRO_REV = 16
REL_LEVEL = GAMMA

(The above is for 2.1.16 final)

> Aside from these two trees, what might I have NOT
> captured that I might want to find from backup?


It depends on how Mailman was installed, whese package, etc. See, e.g.,
the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/KYCB>.


> What issues might I have
> in "upgrading"? What's my fastest / best procedure? For example, do I
> just create new lists and populate them with the list members? And what
> about all those archives? Can I just plunk them into the tree and expec
> them to work? (I really don't look forward to merging archive trees!)


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2oA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Sep 23 22:22:47 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 15:22:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding, Removing and Baning people
Message-ID: <auto-000125246863@mailfront4.g2host.com>

Our server has over 215 lists on it -- and people belong to multiple 
lists and it is of course impossible to know who is on what list.  I 
need to occasionally do one of three tasks, possibly all 3 at once, 
find out what lists a given person belongs to, remove him/her from 
all those lists, and place his/her e-mail address in the ban-list for 
all lists on the server.  Are there scripts out there to do this 
stuff, or what is the best way?  Maybe some new elements for the web 
UI in Mailman3?

Dave


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Sep 23 22:45:38 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:45:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding, Removing and Baning people
In-Reply-To: <auto-000125246863@mailfront4.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000125246863@mailfront4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <5240A872.1080307@msapiro.net>

On 09/23/2013 01:22 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> I
> need to occasionally do one of three tasks, possibly all 3 at once, find
> out what lists a given person belongs to,


bin/find_member


> remove him/her from all those
> lists,


bin/remove_members --fromall


> and place his/her e-mail address in the ban-list for all lists on
> the server.


<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/add_banned.py>

The first two are standard Mailman command line tools, see
<http://wiki.list.org/x/z4A9>. The last is a withlist script with a
docstring explaining its usage.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From renaud.courvoisier at ecole-art-aix.fr  Mon Sep 23 16:31:55 2013
From: renaud.courvoisier at ecole-art-aix.fr (renaud courvoisier)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 16:31:55 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 554 5.7.1 Relay access denied from outside,
	mailman or postfix ?
Message-ID: <524050DB.6040607@ecole-art-aix.fr>

Hi,

I'm encountering a problem on postfix with mailman and only with it :
sending a message from a domain outside my server cause a 554 5.7.1 
"Relay access denied" error.
I do not have this error with messages directly sent to postfix.

I don't see how to fix it, and forums' messages didn't help...

In example, AAAAAA at aDomainName.tld sending mail to 
MAILMAN at listes.mydomain2.tld don't work (and the log is really short) :
/2013-09-23T15:09:32.200535+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[13333]: 
connect from 6.mo5.mail-out.ovh.net[178.32.119.138]
2013-09-23T15:09:32.212320+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[13333]: 
NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from 6.mo5.mail-out.ovh.net[178.32.119.138]: 554 
5.7.1 <MAILMAN at listes.mydomain2.tld>: Relay access denied; 
from=<AAAAAA at aDomainName.tld> to=<MAILMAN at listes.mydomain2.tld> 
proto=ESMTP helo=<mo5.mail-out.ovh.net>
2013-09-23T15:09:32.237881+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[13333]: 
disconnect from 6.mo5.mail-out.ovh.net[178.32.119.138]/

But AAAAAA at aDomainName.tld sending mail to BBBBBB at mydomain.tld works :
/2013-09-23T15:33:33.802619+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[18555]: 
connect from 13.mo5.mail-out.ovh.net[87.98.182.191]
2013-09-23T15:33:33.818030+02:00 serverName postgrey[19316]: 
2013/09/23-15:33:33 CONNECT TCP Peer: "127.0.0.1:52567" Local: 
"127.0.0.1:10023"#012
2013-09-23T15:33:33.818466+02:00 serverName postgrey[19316]: 
action=pass, reason=client whitelist, 
client_name=13.mo5.mail-out.ovh.net, client_address=87.98.182.191, 
sender=AAAAAA at aDomainName.tld, recipient=BBBBBB at mydomain2.tld
2013-09-23T15:33:33.868874+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[18555]: 
CFFCF40CA1: client=13.mo5.mail-out.ovh.net[87.98.182.191]
2013-09-23T15:33:33.869833+02:00 serverName postfix/cleanup[18609]: 
CFFCF40CA1: message-id=<52404319.2010100 at aDomainName.tld>
2013-09-23T15:33:33.919217+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[18555]: 
disconnect from 13.mo5.mail-out.ovh.net[87.98.182.191]
2013-09-23T15:33:33.952553+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
CFFCF40CA1: from=<AAAAAA at aDomainName.tld>, size=1773, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
2013-09-23T15:33:35.329837+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[18613]: 
connect from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
2013-09-23T15:33:35.369716+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[18613]: 
5621A416E4: client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
2013-09-23T15:33:35.371378+02:00 serverName postfix/cleanup[18609]: 
5621A416E4: message-id=<52404319.2010100 at aDomainName.tld>
2013-09-23T15:33:35.419960+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[18613]: 
disconnect from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
2013-09-23T15:33:35.426334+02:00 serverName amavis[10989]: (10989-10) 
Passed CLEAN, [87.98.182.191] [213.186.33.50] <AAAAAA at aDomainName.tld> 
-> <BBBBBB at mydomain2.tld>, Message-ID: 
<52404319.2010100 at aDomainName.tld>, mail_id: HI7ZU1BVElzF, Hits: -0.001, 
size: 1771, queued_as: 5621A416E4, 1466 ms
2013-09-23T15:33:35.428068+02:00 serverName postfix/smtp[18610]: 
CFFCF40CA1: to=<BBBBBB at mydomain2.tld>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, 
delay=1.6, delays=0.14/0.01/0/1.5, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok, 
id=10989-10, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 
5621A416E4)
2013-09-23T15:33:35.453549+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
5621A416E4: from=<AAAAAA at aDomainName.tld>, size=2227, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
2013-09-23T15:33:35.487164+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
CFFCF40CA1: removed
2013-09-23T15:33:35.639855+02:00 serverName postfix/pipe[18615]: 
5621A416E4: to=<BBBBBB at mydomain2.tld>, relay=dovecot, delay=0.31, 
delays=0.12/0.04/0/0.15, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered via dovecot 
service)
2013-09-23T15:33:35.695823+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
5621A416E4: removed


/And here is the log of CCCCCC at mydomain1.tld sending a message to 
MAILMAN at listes.mydomain2.tld :/
2013-09-23T15:42:09.215473+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[20658]: 
connect from myFAI[myIP]
2013-09-23T15:42:09.594357+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[20658]: 
8CF8F40CA1: client=myFAI[myIP], sasl_method=PLAIN, 
sasl_username=CCCCCC at mydomain1.tld
2013-09-23T15:42:09.667615+02:00 serverName postfix/cleanup[20666]: 
8CF8F40CA1: message-id=<52404522.109 at mydomain1.tld>
2013-09-23T15:42:09.752959+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
8CF8F40CA1: from=<CCCCCC at mydomain1.tld>, size=627, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
2013-09-23T15:42:09.794108+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[20658]: 
disconnect from myFAI[myIP]
2013-09-23T15:42:10.114724+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[20671]: 
connect from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
2013-09-23T15:42:10.153558+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[20671]: 
215CA41798: client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
2013-09-23T15:42:10.155397+02:00 serverName postfix/cleanup[20666]: 
215CA41798: message-id=<52404522.109 at mydomain1.tld>
2013-09-23T15:42:10.260822+02:00 serverName amavis[10889]: (10889-13) 
Passed CLEAN, [myIP] [myIP] <CCCCCC at mydomain1.tld> -> 
<MAILMAN at listes.mydomain2.tld>, Message-ID: 
<52404522.109 at mydomain1.tld>, mail_id: IfvI-bMGsfH3, Hits: -1, size: 
627, queued_as: 215CA41798, 501 ms
2013-09-23T15:42:10.262625+02:00 serverName postfix/smtp[20668]: 
8CF8F40CA1: to=<MAILMAN at listes.mydomain2.tld>, 
relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=0.75, delays=0.24/0.01/0/0.5, 
dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok, id=10889-13, from 
MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 215CA41798)
2013-09-23T15:42:10.287447+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
215CA41798: from=<CCCCCC at mydomain1.tld>, size=1097, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
2013-09-23T15:42:10.321013+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
8CF8F40CA1: removed
2013-09-23T15:42:10.399095+02:00 serverName postfix/local[20673]: 
215CA41798: to=<MAILMAN at listes.mydomain2.tld>, relay=local, delay=0.28, 
delays=0.17/0.04/0/0.07, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: 
/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)
2013-09-23T15:42:10.446638+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
215CA41798: removed
2013-09-23T15:42:10.956536+02:00 serverName spamd[31880]: spamd: 
connection from localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1] at port 55234
2013-09-23T15:42:10.957574+02:00 serverName spamd[31880]: spamd: 
handle_user unable to find user: 'mailman'
2013-09-23T15:42:10.957889+02:00 serverName spamd[31880]: spamd: still 
running as root: user not specified with -u, not found, or set to root, 
falling back to nobody
2013-09-23T15:42:10.961841+02:00 serverName spamd[31880]: spamd: 
checking message <52404522.109 at mydomain1.tld> for mailman:65534
2013-09-23T15:42:11.149420+02:00 serverName spamd[31880]: plugin: eval 
failed: bayes: (in learn) locker: safe_lock: cannot create tmp lockfile 
/nonexistent/.spamassassin/bayes.lock.mydomain1.tld.31880 for 
/nonexistent/.spamassassin/bayes.lock: No such file or directory
2013-09-23T15:42:11.149945+02:00 serverName spamd[31880]: spamd: clean 
message (-1.0/5.0) for mailman:65534 in 0.2 seconds, 1252 bytes.
2013-09-23T15:42:11.150140+02:00 serverName spamd[31880]: spamd: result: 
. -1 - ALL_TRUSTED 
scantime=0.2,size=1252,user=mailman,uid=65534,required_score=5.0,rhost=localhost.localdomain,raddr=127.0.0.1,rport=55234,mid=<52404522.109 at mydomain1.tld>,autolearn=unavailable
2013-09-23T15:42:11.186345+02:00 serverName spamd[31866]: prefork: child 
states: II
2013-09-23T15:42:11.387431+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[20658]: 
connect from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
2013-09-23T15:42:11.436712+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[20658]: 
631E241798: client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
2013-09-23T15:42:11.437309+02:00 serverName postfix/cleanup[20666]: 
631E241798: message-id=<52404522.109 at mydomain1.tld>
2013-09-23T15:42:11.522618+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
631E241798: from=<MAILMAN-bounces at listes.mydomain2.tld>, size=2175, 
nrcpt=1 (queue active)
2013-09-23T15:42:11.565760+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[20658]: 
8600B40CA1: client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
2013-09-23T15:42:11.568849+02:00 serverName postfix/cleanup[20666]: 
8600B40CA1: message-id=<52404522.109 at mydomain1.tld>
2013-09-23T15:42:11.616324+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[20658]: 
disconnect from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
2013-09-23T15:42:11.649902+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
8600B40CA1: from=<MAILMAN-bounces at listes.mydomain2.tld>, size=2144, 
nrcpt=3 (queue active)
2013-09-23T15:42:12.125480+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[20671]: 
1A80041734: client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
2013-09-23T15:42:12.129236+02:00 serverName postfix/cleanup[20666]: 
1A80041734: message-id=<52404522.109 at mydomain1.tld>
2013-09-23T15:42:12.188510+02:00 serverName amavis[10889]: (10889-14) 
Passed CLEAN, LOCAL [127.0.0.1] [myIP] 
<MAILMAN-bounces at listes.mydomain2.tld> -> 
<AAAAAA at aDomainName.tld>,<BBBBBB at mydomain2.tld>,<XXXXXX at anotherDomainName.tld>, 
Message-ID: <52404522.109 at mydomain1.tld>, mail_id: 8MQgWJ-2Apd1, Hits: 
-0.999, size: 2144, queued_as: 1A80041734, 533 ms
2013-09-23T15:42:12.189785+02:00 serverName postfix/smtp[20676]: 
8600B40CA1: to=<AAAAAA at aDomainName.tld>, 
relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=0.7, delays=0.16/0/0/0.53, 
dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok, id=10889-14, from 
MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 1A80041734)
2013-09-23T15:42:12.193748+02:00 serverName postfix/smtp[20676]: 
8600B40CA1: to=<BBBBBB at mydomain2.tld>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, 
delay=0.7, delays=0.16/0/0/0.53, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok, 
id=10889-14, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 
1A80041734)
2013-09-23T15:42:12.202111+02:00 serverName postfix/smtp[20676]: 
8600B40CA1: to=<XXXXXX at anotherDomainName.tld>, 
relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=0.7, delays=0.16/0/0/0.53, 
dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok, id=10889-14, from 
MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 1A80041734)
2013-09-23T15:42:12.227203+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
1A80041734: from=<MAILMAN-bounces at listes.mydomain2.tld>, size=2550, 
nrcpt=3 (queue active)
2013-09-23T15:42:12.267880+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
8600B40CA1: removed
2013-09-23T15:42:12.413714+02:00 serverName postfix/pipe[20678]: 
1A80041734: to=<BBBBBB at mydomain2.tld>, relay=dovecot, delay=0.32, 
delays=0.13/0.05/0/0.14, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered via dovecot 
service)
2013-09-23T15:42:12.414958+02:00 serverName postfix/smtp[20679]: 
1A80041734: to=<AAAAAA at aDomainName.tld>, 
relay=mx1.ovh.net[213.186.33.29]:25, delay=0.32, 
delays=0.13/0.05/0.02/0.12, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 ok 1379943717 qp 
24412)
2013-09-23T15:42:12.729639+02:00 serverName postfix/smtp[20681]: 
1A80041734: to=<XXXXXX at anotherDomainName.tld>, 
relay=mailhost.anotherDomainName.tld[83.145.80.114]:25, delay=0.64, 
delays=0.13/0.05/0.18/0.27, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 
1f0qyxrkd4-1 Message accepted for delivery)
2013-09-23T15:42:12.784870+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
1A80041734: removed
2013-09-23T15:42:13.038443+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[20682]: 
connect from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
2013-09-23T15:42:13.077894+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[20682]: 
0EE1840CA1: client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
2013-09-23T15:42:13.079693+02:00 serverName postfix/cleanup[20666]: 
0EE1840CA1: message-id=<52404522.109 at mydomain1.tld>
2013-09-23T15:42:13.128129+02:00 serverName postfix/smtpd[20682]: 
disconnect from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
2013-09-23T15:42:13.133732+02:00 serverName amavis[10989]: (10989-13) 
Passed CLEAN, LOCAL [127.0.0.1] [myIP] 
<MAILMAN-bounces at listes.mydomain2.tld> -> <CCCCCC at mydomain1.tld>, 
Message-ID: <52404522.109 at mydomain1.tld>, mail_id: Ulol1liVMq7z, Hits: 
-0.999, size: 2175, queued_as: 0EE1840CA1, 1567 ms
2013-09-23T15:42:13.135386+02:00 serverName postfix/smtp[20668]: 
631E241798: to=<CCCCCC at mydomain1.tld>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, 
delay=1.7, delays=0.13/0.04/0/1.6, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok, 
id=10989-13, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 
0EE1840CA1)
2013-09-23T15:42:13.161720+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
0EE1840CA1: from=<MAILMAN-bounces at listes.mydomain2.tld>, size=2645, 
nrcpt=1 (queue active)
2013-09-23T15:42:13.195309+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
631E241798: removed
2013-09-23T15:42:13.314512+02:00 serverName postfix/pipe[20678]: 
0EE1840CA1: to=<CCCCCC at mydomain1.tld>, relay=dovecot, delay=0.27, 
delays=0.12/0.03/0/0.12, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered via dovecot 
service)
2013-09-23T15:42:13.370622+02:00 serverName postfix/qmgr[19238]: 
0EE1840CA1: removed
/
What's wrong ?
Did I miss something ?

Thanks for the help.

-- 
Renaud Courvoisier
Responsable Informatique & R?seau ESAAIX
Rue Emile Tavan, 13100 Aix-en-Provence


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Sep 24 02:39:17 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 09:39:17 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  554 5.7.1 Relay access denied from outside,
	mailman or postfix ?
In-Reply-To: <524050DB.6040607@ecole-art-aix.fr>
References: <524050DB.6040607@ecole-art-aix.fr>
Message-ID: <8738ov2gui.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

renaud courvoisier writes:
 > Hi,
 > 
 > I'm encountering a problem on postfix with mailman and only with it :
 > sending a message from a domain outside my server cause a 554 5.7.1 
 > "Relay access denied" error.
 > I do not have this error with messages directly sent to postfix.

This is a postfix issue, not Mailman.  I am assuming that mailman is
running on the host you want to serve "listes.mydomain2.tld" from.
You probably just need to specify "listes.mydomain2.tld" in the
mydestination parameter of main.cf (on my system that file is in
/etc/postfix/main.cf, YMMV).

You may want to wait for a more authoritative reply from somebody who
knows more about Postfix (for historical reasons I mostly use Exim),
or ask on Postfix channels.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Sep 24 02:43:24 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 09:43:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Finding, Removing and Baning people
In-Reply-To: <auto-000125246863@mailfront4.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000125246863@mailfront4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <871u4f2gnn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

David Andrews writes:

 > Are there scripts out there to do this stuff, or what is the best
 > way?

Scripts by Mark[tm] are the best way. :-)

 > Maybe some new elements for the web UI in Mailman3?

In Mailman 3, addresses are associated with separate user objects,
which know which addresses they own and in turn which lists are
subscribed.  At present there is no pleasant way to do the task you
describe from the web UI, but Mailman 3 will make it much easier to do
that kind of task.

From renaud.courvoisier at ecole-art-aix.fr  Tue Sep 24 08:29:01 2013
From: renaud.courvoisier at ecole-art-aix.fr (renaud courvoisier)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 08:29:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 554 5.7.1 Relay access denied from outside,
 mailman or postfix ?
In-Reply-To: <8738ov2gui.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <524050DB.6040607@ecole-art-aix.fr>
 <8738ov2gui.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <5241312D.6090205@ecole-art-aix.fr>

Ok, that was just that.
Thanks !!


On 24/09/2013 02:39, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> renaud courvoisier writes:
>   > Hi,
>   >
>   > I'm encountering a problem on postfix with mailman and only with it :
>   > sending a message from a domain outside my server cause a 554 5.7.1
>   > "Relay access denied" error.
>   > I do not have this error with messages directly sent to postfix.
>
> This is a postfix issue, not Mailman.  I am assuming that mailman is
> running on the host you want to serve "listes.mydomain2.tld" from.
> You probably just need to specify "listes.mydomain2.tld" in the
> mydestination parameter of main.cf (on my system that file is in
> /etc/postfix/main.cf, YMMV).
>
> You may want to wait for a more authoritative reply from somebody who
> knows more about Postfix (for historical reasons I mostly use Exim),
> or ask on Postfix channels.
>


-- 
Renaud Courvoisier
Responsable Informatique & R?seau ESAAIX
Rue Emile Tavan, 13100 Aix-en-Provence


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Tue Sep 24 09:28:39 2013
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 09:28:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding, Removing and Baning people
In-Reply-To: <auto-000125246863@mailfront4.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000125246863@mailfront4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <20130924072839.GB16878@charite.de>

* David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>:

> Our server has over 215 lists on it -- and people belong to multiple
> lists and it is of course impossible to know who is on what list.

> I need to occasionally do one of three tasks, possibly all 3 at once,
> find out what lists a given person belongs to,

find_member address

> remove him/her from all those lists,

remove_members --fromall address

> and place his/her e-mail address in the ban-list for all lists on the
> server.

Don't know about that one.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt                   Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de        Campus Benjamin Franklin
http://www.charite.de              Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin
Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155

From richard at KarmannGhia.org  Wed Sep 25 20:34:01 2013
From: richard at KarmannGhia.org (Richard)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 11:34:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disaster recovery: fastest / best route advice
 sought
In-Reply-To: <523D3BA0.10105@msapiro.net>
References: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309201352030.4123@KarmannGhia.org>
 <523D3BA0.10105@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309251037531.12155@KarmannGhia.org>


Well Gang,

I never did get mail working properly until this morning, and I'm just now 
focusing my attention back on mailman - can't worry about a mailing list 
manager when there's no competent mail services! (Note: FC19 is a bad 
choice for a server - I'll say no more about it.)

...This means we had our event and of course never had any email 
communications before it and, unfortunately, it was the worse for it...

On Fri, 20 Sep 2013, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> cat /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Version.py and look at
>
> MAJOR_REV = 2
> MINOR_REV = 1
> MICRO_REV = 16
> REL_LEVEL = GAMMA
>

Thanks, Mark, I'v apparently been using 2.1.13.

I presume that, with the goal of restoring between versions, there 
aren't any significant issues with either loading into mailman.x86_64 
3:2.1.15-12.fc19, or possibly mailman-2.1.14-12.fc16.x86_64... I'm still 
reading up on the articles you pointed me at.

Nobody responded regarding splitting web and email activities - is this 
even possible? Right now is the time for me to decide which route to take. 
Whichever route, it won't be fun!

Right now the email services are being performed by an older internal 
server which has some good advantages for users, but it doesn't at present 
expose web services, and I haven't got a gateway / firewall that can 
forward port 80 because they're already in service serving httpd... ...I'm 
concerned that running on other than port 80 will cause other kinds of 
problems. I'm also not anxious to the risk of opening up an nfs disk to 
such a system, but could that even work?

Any thoughts, please? If you think splitting things up is unrealistic, 
please say so! Otherwise, I might be dumb (desperate) enough to try it and 
I've lost a lot of time as it is!

Thanks much,
Richard

--
Richard Troy, Founder & current President
The Karmann Ghia Club of North America
4200 Park Blvd, #151, Oakland CA 94602, USA

Richard at KarmannGhia.org, http://KarmannGhia.org/Richard/

From fil at rezo.net  Wed Sep 25 20:41:57 2013
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 20:41:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disaster recovery: fastest / best route advice
	sought
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309251037531.12155@KarmannGhia.org>
References: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309201352030.4123@KarmannGhia.org>
 <523D3BA0.10105@msapiro.net>
 <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309251037531.12155@KarmannGhia.org>
Message-ID: <CAERh8-k4Cko96czQ9pwmyYK5uoy0pT1K4hdTQCLESARgQ4AwKw@mail.gmail.com>

I would suggest that, on the Web server, you just proxy /mailman/ to your
Mailman's web service.

If you're using apache, something like this on the Web front-end will do:

ProxyPass /mailman http://ml.example.com/mailmanProxyPassReverse
/mailman http://ml.example.com/mailman

If you're using varnish, all the better, just define the mailman URL as a
backend.

-- Fil


On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Richard <richard at karmannghia.org> wrote:

>
> Well Gang,
>
> I never did get mail working properly until this morning, and I'm just now
> focusing my attention back on mailman - can't worry about a mailing list
> manager when there's no competent mail services! (Note: FC19 is a bad
> choice for a server - I'll say no more about it.)
>
> ...This means we had our event and of course never had any email
> communications before it and, unfortunately, it was the worse for it...
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2013, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>
>> cat /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/**Version.py and look at
>>
>> MAJOR_REV = 2
>> MINOR_REV = 1
>> MICRO_REV = 16
>> REL_LEVEL = GAMMA
>>
>>
> Thanks, Mark, I'v apparently been using 2.1.13.
>
> I presume that, with the goal of restoring between versions, there aren't
> any significant issues with either loading into mailman.x86_64
> 3:2.1.15-12.fc19, or possibly mailman-2.1.14-12.fc16.x86_64.**.. I'm
> still reading up on the articles you pointed me at.
>
> Nobody responded regarding splitting web and email activities - is this
> even possible? Right now is the time for me to decide which route to take.
> Whichever route, it won't be fun!
>
> Right now the email services are being performed by an older internal
> server which has some good advantages for users, but it doesn't at present
> expose web services, and I haven't got a gateway / firewall that can
> forward port 80 because they're already in service serving httpd... ...I'm
> concerned that running on other than port 80 will cause other kinds of
> problems. I'm also not anxious to the risk of opening up an nfs disk to
> such a system, but could that even work?
>
> Any thoughts, please? If you think splitting things up is unrealistic,
> please say so! Otherwise, I might be dumb (desperate) enough to try it and
> I've lost a lot of time as it is!
>
> Thanks much,
>
> Richard
>
> --
> Richard Troy, Founder & current President
> The Karmann Ghia Club of North America
> 4200 Park Blvd, #151, Oakland CA 94602, USA
>
> Richard at KarmannGhia.org, http://KarmannGhia.org/**Richard/<http://KarmannGhia.org/Richard/>
> ------------------------------**------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/mailman-users<https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/**
> mailman-users%40python.org/<http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/>
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/**mailman/options/mailman-users/**
> fil%40rezo.net<https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/fil%40rezo.net>
>

From richard at KarmannGhia.org  Wed Sep 25 21:44:15 2013
From: richard at KarmannGhia.org (Richard)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 12:44:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disaster recovery: fastest / best route advice
 sought
In-Reply-To: <CAERh8-k4Cko96czQ9pwmyYK5uoy0pT1K4hdTQCLESARgQ4AwKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309201352030.4123@KarmannGhia.org>
 <523D3BA0.10105@msapiro.net>
 <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309251037531.12155@KarmannGhia.org>
 <CAERh8-k4Cko96czQ9pwmyYK5uoy0pT1K4hdTQCLESARgQ4AwKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309251236230.12155@KarmannGhia.org>



On Wed, 25 Sep 2013, Fil wrote:
> 
> I would suggest that, on the Web server, you just proxy /mailman/ to your
> Mailman's web service.
> If you're using apache, something like this on the Web front-end will do:
> 
> 
> ProxyPass /mailman http://ml.example.com/mailman
> ProxyPassReverse /mailman http://ml.example.com/mailman
> 
> 
> If you're using varnish, all the better, just define the mailman URL as a
> backend.
> 
> -- Fil

Hi Fil, thanks for the reply...

...I dont' know what 'varnish' is (in this context), but I do have Apache 
running services on two web server systems...

I've never heard of this ProxyPass, or ProxyPassReverse (no surprise 
there!) so please help confirm my new understanding of them: I take it 
that in the example you gave, the URL (http://ml.example.com/mailman) 
pertains to the internal system, and ProxyPass and ProxyPassReverse are 
the two directions of a bidirectional feed that, in effect, makes the 
internal web server's targeted URL (namely, access to mailman) presented 
as "mailman" in whatever Apache container (like a virtual host) these 
parameters are included under?

So, that's making not the whole internal web server but JUST whereever 
that URL points to now be served by the external lable that's the first 
argument to ProxyPass and ProxyPassReverse?

If I understand correctly, GEEZ THAT'S COOL, and _completely_ solves my 
dilema! Please Confirm I got it!

THANK YOU,
Richard

> 
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Richard <richard at karmannghia.org> wrote:
>
>       Well Gang,
>
>       I never did get mail working properly until this morning, and
>       I'm just now focusing my attention back on mailman - can't worry
>       about a mailing list manager when there's no competent mail
>       services! (Note: FC19 is a bad choice for a server - I'll say no
>       more about it.)
>
>       ...This means we had our event and of course never had any email
>       communications before it and, unfortunately, it was the worse
>       for it...
>
>       On Fri, 20 Sep 2013, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>             cat /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Version.py and look at
>
>             MAJOR_REV = 2
>             MINOR_REV = 1
>             MICRO_REV = 16
>             REL_LEVEL = GAMMA
> 
> 
> Thanks, Mark, I'v apparently been using 2.1.13.
> 
> I presume that, with the goal of restoring between versions, there
> aren't any significant issues with either loading into mailman.x86_64
> 3:2.1.15-12.fc19, or possibly mailman-2.1.14-12.fc16.x86_64... I'm
> still reading up on the articles you pointed me at.
> 
> Nobody responded regarding splitting web and email activities - is
> this even possible? Right now is the time for me to decide which route
> to take. Whichever route, it won't be fun!
> 
> Right now the email services are being performed by an older internal
> server which has some good advantages for users, but it doesn't at
> present expose web services, and I haven't got a gateway / firewall
> that can forward port 80 because they're already in service serving
> httpd... ...I'm concerned that running on other than port 80 will
> cause other kinds of problems. I'm also not anxious to the risk of
> opening up an nfs disk to such a system, but could that even work?
> 
> Any thoughts, please? If you think splitting things up is unrealistic,
> please say so! Otherwise, I might be dumb (desperate) enough to try it
> and I've lost a lot of time as it is!
> 
> Thanks much,
> Richard
> 
> --
> Richard Troy, Founder & current President
> The Karmann Ghia Club of North America
> 4200 Park Blvd, #151, Oakland CA 94602, USA
> 
> Richard at KarmannGhia.org, http://KarmannGhia.org/Richard/
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/fil%40rezo.net
> 
> 
> 
>

Richard Troy, Founder & current President
The Karmann Ghia Club of North America
4200 Park Blvd, #151, Oakland CA 94602, USA

Richard at KarmannGhia.org, http://KarmannGhia.org/Richard/

From mydrum9 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 25 22:23:36 2013
From: mydrum9 at gmail.com (Aaron Dolgin)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 13:23:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MySQL
Message-ID: <-8431204681087924265@unknownmsgid>

Is it possible to have mailman store the email addresses in a database in
MySQL?


Aaron Dolgin
(661) 400-6301
VP of Business & Marketing
Electrical Lead
Webmaster
Hart District Robotics Team 691
Team691.org <http://team691.org/>
Follow us on Twitter @Project691

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 25 22:47:44 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 13:47:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MySQL
In-Reply-To: <-8431204681087924265@unknownmsgid>
References: <-8431204681087924265@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <52434BF0.3090006@msapiro.net>

On 09/25/2013 01:23 PM, Aaron Dolgin wrote:
> Is it possible to have mailman store the email addresses in a database in
> MySQL?


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/VIDt>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From richard at KarmannGhia.org  Thu Sep 26 02:35:53 2013
From: richard at KarmannGhia.org (Richard)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 17:35:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] That pid file problem again - Hmmm...
In-Reply-To: <CAERh8-k4Cko96czQ9pwmyYK5uoy0pT1K4hdTQCLESARgQ4AwKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309201352030.4123@KarmannGhia.org>
 <523D3BA0.10105@msapiro.net>
 <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309251037531.12155@KarmannGhia.org>
 <CAERh8-k4Cko96czQ9pwmyYK5uoy0pT1K4hdTQCLESARgQ4AwKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309251655440.12155@KarmannGhia.org>


Hello All,

I was having trouble setting up my new Apache installation to provide 
mailman it's public user interface and I got this (relatively common known 
problem) in /var/log/messages:

systemd[1]: PID file /var/run/httpd/httpd.pid not readable (yet?) after start.

In investigting, I found our own list's archives have this note:

https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2013-July/033900.html

...Relatively recent, too. However, my system (Fedora Core 16) doesn't 
(didn't) have any /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/apache.conf file. The directory 
exists, however, so I created the file as suggested, using the group and 
user ids of apache and apache, respectively, as that's what my default 
/etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf file calls for. Creating this file didn't help. 
Neither did just changing the pidfile - it apparently gets overwritten 
each time.

HOWEVER, I _can_ access the server.

Can I just ignore this, or... ...is it actually important for some reason?

Thanks,
Richard

From richard at KarmannGhia.org  Thu Sep 26 15:58:50 2013
From: richard at KarmannGhia.org (Richard)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 06:58:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disaster recovery: fastest / best route advice
 sought
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309251236230.12155@KarmannGhia.org>
References: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309201352030.4123@KarmannGhia.org>
 <523D3BA0.10105@msapiro.net>
 <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309251037531.12155@KarmannGhia.org>
 <CAERh8-k4Cko96czQ9pwmyYK5uoy0pT1K4hdTQCLESARgQ4AwKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309251236230.12155@KarmannGhia.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1309252001170.12155@KarmannGhia.org>


On Wed, 25 Sep 2013, Richard wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Sep 2013, Fil wrote:
>> 
>> I would suggest that, on the Web server, you just proxy /mailman/ to your
>> Mailman's web service.
>> If you're using apache, something like this on the Web front-end will do:
>> 
>> 
>> ProxyPass /mailman http://ml.example.com/mailman
>> ProxyPassReverse /mailman http://ml.example.com/mailman
>> 
>> 
>> If you're using varnish, all the better, just define the mailman URL as a
>> backend.
>> 
>> -- Fil
>
> Hi Fil, thanks for the reply...
>

...snip...

> If I understand correctly, GEEZ THAT'S COOL, and _completely_ solves my 
> dilema! Please Confirm I got it!
>
> THANK YOU,
> Richard


OH MY! IT WORKS! _All_of_it._ Right Where We Left Off!

Of course the ProxyPass / ProxyPassReverse configuration is working 
perfectly - even adds some capability to the site we didn't have before...

THANK YOU FIL - AND MARK!   ...And, actually, EVERYONE who has had a hand 
in making this great product a reality...

I got it all working, and while the disaster I and my group have just been 
through was painful, working with mailman was the LEAST painful part of 
it! If you ever feel the need for a testimonial, I'm your guy!

With kindest regards, and great appreciation,
Richard

--
Richard Troy, Founder & current President
The Karmann Ghia Club of North America
4200 Park Blvd, #151, Oakland CA 94602, USA

Richard at KarmannGhia.org, http://KarmannGhia.org/Richard/

From bryan.wright at rigaku.com  Fri Sep 27 20:17:41 2013
From: bryan.wright at rigaku.com (Bryan Wright)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:17:41 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance issues with 12K subscribers and 14K
 subscribers and personalized footers.
Message-ID: <D4DDDF9D516E564989DDFE39359138EC4C07284C@RAC-BCS-EXCHG1.rac.local>

Hello,

I'm trying to figure out some performance issues with mailman.  I have it configured for SMTP direct, and pointed at localhost, port 25.  The MTA is sendmail.  Sendmail is configured to use our exchange server as a smart host.  We have two lists configured and send out 1 message a month to each list.  It usually takes about 12-24 hours to finish sending all the messages.  There are never more than about 5 to 10 messages in the sendmail queue at any given time, so this leads me to believe that the bottleneck is not on the sendmail side.

I've configured mailman for 48 outgoing qrunners, and have tried as many as 72 qrunners, with no noticeable difference, it's like it's using only the 1st outgoing qrunner to process the message and the rest stay there idle.  And then it uses that one qrunner process to create each separate message.  So 12k individual messages processed by one qrunner thread each time.  Is there some way to speed this up and/or get it to use multiple outgoing qrunners simultaneously for the same post, since with personalization it has to create individual copies of each message?

The other odd thing is it doesn't log all 12K messages in the smtp log from mailman, but it logs more than 1.  I would have thought it would either log only 1 message, or all 12K messages.

Here is the SMTP log from mailman:

Sep 26 14:13:17 2013 (12407) <mailman.0.1380222786.19117.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.368 seconds
Sep 26 15:11:57 2013 (12439) <mailman.0.1380226308.21360.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 8.107 seconds
Sep 26 15:42:19 2013 (12381) <mailman.0.1380228138.22559.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 0.086 seconds
Sep 26 16:56:31 2013 (12458) <mailman.0.1380232579.25376.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 11.179 seconds
Sep 26 17:21:12 2013 (12469) <mailman.0.1380234070.26307.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 1.012 seconds
Sep 26 19:10:10 2013 (12429) <mailman.0.1380240598.30473.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.988 seconds
Sep 26 20:23:43 2013 (12449) <mailman.0.1380245014.711.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 6.958 seconds
Sep 27 00:47:25 2013 (12380) <mailman.0.1380260837.10913.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 6.096 seconds
Sep 27 01:17:13 2013 (12448) <mailman.0.1380262626.12154.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 6.166 seconds
Sep 27 02:11:27 2013 (12442) <mailman.0.1380265881.14347.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 5.095 seconds
Sep 27 02:30:36 2013 (12399) <mailman.0.1380267029.15040.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 6.013 seconds
Sep 27 02:40:08 2013 (12472) <mailman.0.1380267601.15415.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 5.356 seconds
Sep 27 05:07:31 2013 (12380) <mailman.0.1380276450.12376.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 0.083 seconds
Sep 27 05:08:20 2013 (12422) <mailman.1.1380276500.12376.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 0.077 seconds
Sep 27 05:08:23 2013 (12474) <mailman.2.1380276502.12376.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 0.073 seconds
Sep 27 05:31:24 2013 (12438) <mailman.0.1380277874.22335.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.251 seconds
Sep 27 06:56:34 2013 (12469) <mailman.0.1380282987.25737.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 5.967 seconds
Sep 27 06:56:50 2013 (12396) <mailman.0.1380283004.25755.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 5.153 seconds
Sep 27 07:02:33 2013 (12452) <mailman.0.1380283341.25998.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.248 seconds
Sep 27 07:59:36 2013 (12406) <mailman.0.1380286763.28405.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 11.085 seconds
Sep 27 08:05:46 2013 (12417) <mailman.0.1380287135.28700.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.141 seconds
Sep 27 08:10:38 2013 (12449) <mailman.0.1380287426.28903.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.232 seconds
Sep 27 08:11:40 2013 (12435) <mailman.0.1380287489.28951.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.093 seconds
Sep 27 08:28:37 2013 (12473) <mailman.0.1380288511.29608.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 5.124 seconds
Sep 27 08:35:08 2013 (12409) <mailman.0.1380288897.29894.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.346 seconds
Sep 27 09:51:39 2013 (12428) <mailman.0.1380293492.733.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 5.045 seconds
Sep 27 10:34:31 2013 (12393) <mailman.0.1380296069.2689.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 0.049 seconds
Sep 27 11:39:33 2013 (12396) <mailman.0.1380299956.5227.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 15.162 seconds
Sep 27 11:40:15 2013 (12389) <mailman.0.1380300003.5287.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.073 seconds
Sep 27 11:53:41 2013 (12438) <mailman.0.1380300815.5850.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 5.098 seconds
Sep 27 13:00:33 2013 (12430) <mailman.0.1380304821.8504.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.125 seconds

Thanks in advance for any advice/help you can give.

Bryan

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Sep 28 06:32:30 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 21:32:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance issues with 12K subscribers and 14K
 subscribers and personalized footers.
In-Reply-To: <D4DDDF9D516E564989DDFE39359138EC4C07284C@RAC-BCS-EXCHG1.rac.local>
References: <D4DDDF9D516E564989DDFE39359138EC4C07284C@RAC-BCS-EXCHG1.rac.local>
Message-ID: <52465BDE.9070601@msapiro.net>

On 09/27/2013 11:17 AM, Bryan Wright wrote:
> 
> I've configured mailman for 48 outgoing qrunners, and have tried as many as 72 qrunners, with no noticeable difference, it's like it's using only the 1st outgoing qrunner to process the message and the rest stay there idle.  And then it uses that one qrunner process to create each separate message.  So 12k individual messages processed by one qrunner thread each time.  Is there some way to speed this up and/or get it to use multiple outgoing qrunners simultaneously for the same post, since with personalization it has to create individual copies of each message?


In your case this will not help at all. A single OutgoingRunner will be
just as fast (or slow) because all the messages are for one or at most
two lists, and list lock contention will thwart any attempt at
parallelism. Furthermore, parallism only works for multiple messages.
Delivery of a single post is always handled by a single OutgoingRunner.


> The other odd thing is it doesn't log all 12K messages in the smtp log from mailman, but it logs more than 1.  I would have thought it would either log only 1 message, or all 12K messages.
> 
> Here is the SMTP log from mailman:
> 
> Sep 26 14:13:17 2013 (12407) <mailman.0.1380222786.19117.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.368 seconds
> Sep 26 15:11:57 2013 (12439) <mailman.0.1380226308.21360.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 8.107 seconds
> Sep 26 15:42:19 2013 (12381) <mailman.0.1380228138.22559.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 0.086 seconds
> Sep 26 16:56:31 2013 (12458) <mailman.0.1380232579.25376.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 11.179 seconds
> Sep 26 17:21:12 2013 (12469) <mailman.0.1380234070.26307.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 1.012 seconds
> Sep 26 19:10:10 2013 (12429) <mailman.0.1380240598.30473.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.988 seconds
> Sep 26 20:23:43 2013 (12449) <mailman.0.1380245014.711.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 6.958 seconds
> Sep 27 00:47:25 2013 (12380) <mailman.0.1380260837.10913.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 6.096 seconds
> Sep 27 01:17:13 2013 (12448) <mailman.0.1380262626.12154.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 6.166 seconds
> Sep 27 02:11:27 2013 (12442) <mailman.0.1380265881.14347.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 5.095 seconds
> Sep 27 02:30:36 2013 (12399) <mailman.0.1380267029.15040.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 6.013 seconds
> Sep 27 02:40:08 2013 (12472) <mailman.0.1380267601.15415.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 5.356 seconds
> Sep 27 05:07:31 2013 (12380) <mailman.0.1380276450.12376.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 0.083 seconds
> Sep 27 05:08:20 2013 (12422) <mailman.1.1380276500.12376.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 0.077 seconds
> Sep 27 05:08:23 2013 (12474) <mailman.2.1380276502.12376.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 0.073 seconds
> Sep 27 05:31:24 2013 (12438) <mailman.0.1380277874.22335.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.251 seconds
> Sep 27 06:56:34 2013 (12469) <mailman.0.1380282987.25737.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 5.967 seconds
> Sep 27 06:56:50 2013 (12396) <mailman.0.1380283004.25755.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 5.153 seconds
> Sep 27 07:02:33 2013 (12452) <mailman.0.1380283341.25998.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.248 seconds
> Sep 27 07:59:36 2013 (12406) <mailman.0.1380286763.28405.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 11.085 seconds
> Sep 27 08:05:46 2013 (12417) <mailman.0.1380287135.28700.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.141 seconds
> Sep 27 08:10:38 2013 (12449) <mailman.0.1380287426.28903.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.232 seconds
> Sep 27 08:11:40 2013 (12435) <mailman.0.1380287489.28951.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.093 seconds
> Sep 27 08:28:37 2013 (12473) <mailman.0.1380288511.29608.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 5.124 seconds
> Sep 27 08:35:08 2013 (12409) <mailman.0.1380288897.29894.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.346 seconds
> Sep 27 09:51:39 2013 (12428) <mailman.0.1380293492.733.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 5.045 seconds
> Sep 27 10:34:31 2013 (12393) <mailman.0.1380296069.2689.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 0.049 seconds
> Sep 27 11:39:33 2013 (12396) <mailman.0.1380299956.5227.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 15.162 seconds
> Sep 27 11:40:15 2013 (12389) <mailman.0.1380300003.5287.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.073 seconds
> Sep 27 11:53:41 2013 (12438) <mailman.0.1380300815.5850.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 5.098 seconds
> Sep 27 13:00:33 2013 (12430) <mailman.0.1380304821.8504.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter for 1 recips, completed in 10.125 seconds


These messages are all Mailman generated notices of some kind. None of
them is delivery of the actual post to the 12 or 14 K subscribers.
Further, these do not indicate a backlogged qrunner since these messages
are many minutes apart and processing times, although very long for a
single recipient, are only a few seconds.

Most of these entries look like a single notice, although there may have
been others that are in the slice being processed for the big delivery,
but these

Sep 27 05:07:31 2013 (12380)
<mailman.0.1380276450.12376.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter
for 1 recips, completed in 0.083 seconds
Sep 27 05:08:20 2013 (12422)
<mailman.1.1380276500.12376.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter
for 1 recips, completed in 0.077 seconds
Sep 27 05:08:23 2013 (12474)
<mailman.2.1380276502.12376.newsletter at rigaku.com> smtp to newsletter
for 1 recips, completed in 0.073 seconds

appear to be
 (.0.) a notice to a user
 (.1.) a related notice to newsletter-owner at rigaku.com
 (.2.) the resend of (.1.) to the actual owner address.

The actual delivery to the subscribers will be a log entry like

Mmm dd hh:mm:ss (qrunner PID) <message ID of the incoming post> smtp to
newsletter for nnnnn recips, completed in ttttt.ttt seconds

(where nnnnn is the size of the list and ttttt.ttt is the total time)
written after delivery is complete.

I suspect that that what is happening here is some deliveries are
bouncing and some of those bounces are disabling delivery and the
entries you show above are bounce processing notices and they take as
long as they do because of sendmail contention with the actual delivery
of the post. Also, you only see them while delivery of the post is
proceeding because of multiple qrunners, but I'm not sure why locking
doesn't stop even that.


> Thanks in advance for any advice/help you can give.


See the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/doA9> and
<http://wiki.list.org/x/q4A9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Sep 28 06:59:43 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 21:59:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance issues with 12K subscribers and 14K
 subscribers and personalized footers.
In-Reply-To: <52465BDE.9070601@msapiro.net>
References: <D4DDDF9D516E564989DDFE39359138EC4C07284C@RAC-BCS-EXCHG1.rac.local>
 <52465BDE.9070601@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5246623F.1090909@msapiro.net>

On 09/27/2013 09:32 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Also, you only see them while delivery of the post is
> proceeding because of multiple qrunners, but I'm not sure why locking
> doesn't stop even that.


Actually, it's because OutgoingRunner doesn't lock the list. I was
confusing it with IncomingRunner which does lock the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From bryan.wright at rigaku.com  Sat Sep 28 07:40:49 2013
From: bryan.wright at rigaku.com (Bryan Wright)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 05:40:49 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance issues with 12K subscribers and 14K
 subscribers and personalized footers.
In-Reply-To: <5246623F.1090909@msapiro.net>
References: <D4DDDF9D516E564989DDFE39359138EC4C07284C@RAC-BCS-EXCHG1.rac.local>
 <52465BDE.9070601@msapiro.net>,<5246623F.1090909@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <tvva0rq83ybbhc4ky11o9tb0.1380346761805@email.android.com>


That makes sense now.   And explains why all my attempts to speed up processing have hear no effect.   So the final message should be logged once delivery is complete.

So back to the speed.   If multiple qrunners won't fix the issue, is there any way to speed this up? To get it to process multiple outgoing messages at once?

Could I create multiple lists and then just have the lists subscribed to the one list?  Then each of these lists could use a qrunner?

Could disk access time be an issue?  Could I place the mailman queue directory in a ram disk?

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Date: 09/28/2013 12:00 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Performance issues with 12K subscribers and 14K subscribers and personalized footers.


On 09/27/2013 09:32 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Also, you only see them while delivery of the post is
> proceeding because of multiple qrunners, but I'm not sure why locking
> doesn't stop even that.


Actually, it's because OutgoingRunner doesn't lock the list. I was
confusing it with IncomingRunner which does lock the list.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bryan.wright%40rigaku.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Sep 28 22:33:09 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 13:33:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance issues with 12K subscribers and 14K
 subscribers and personalized footers.
In-Reply-To: <tvva0rq83ybbhc4ky11o9tb0.1380346761805@email.android.com>
References: <D4DDDF9D516E564989DDFE39359138EC4C07284C@RAC-BCS-EXCHG1.rac.local>
 <52465BDE.9070601@msapiro.net>, <5246623F.1090909@msapiro.net>
 <tvva0rq83ybbhc4ky11o9tb0.1380346761805@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <52473D05.7070805@msapiro.net>

On 09/27/2013 10:40 PM, Bryan Wright wrote:
> 
> So back to the speed.   If multiple qrunners won't fix the issue, is
> there any way to speed this up? To get it to process multiple outgoing
> messages at once? 


Before trying to send from Mailman in parallel, you need to look into
speeding up the SMTP interaction between Mailman and sendmail, bevcause
that's where the real delay exists.


> Could I create multiple lists and then just have the lists subscribed to
> the one list?  Then each of these lists could use a qrunner?


Yes and no. You could create an umbrella list or use
regular_include_lists (see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/TIA9>) to
create multiple outgoing messages with fewer recipients, but there is no
guarantee that these message's out/ queue entries would all wind up in
different OutgoingRunner slices. Actually ensuring that each message is
processed by a different OutgoingRunner would, I think, require some
kludgey code mods. It would be easier and more productive to modify
SMTPDirect to use multiple threads. (There is an 'experimental'
MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS setting documented in Defaults.py, but it is not
currently implemented.)


> Could disk access time be an issue?  Could I place the mailman queue
> directory in a ram disk? 


Putting the queue on a ram disk won't help. The queue entry is only
picked up at the start of processing and whether it takes microseconds
or milliseconds, it is not the source of any significant delay.

Putting the server's swap space on a ram disk could help, but there are
other things to try first.

As I said in my original reply, see the FAQs at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/doA9> and <http://wiki.list.org/x/q4A9>. A local
caching DNS may help and if sendmail is doing DNS verification at
incoming SMTP time, stopping that will really help. Also ensure you
haven't changed the default

SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 0

setting.

Note: as a point of reference, my production server is not very high
powered, runs CentOS 5, and has no specific performance tuning. Messages
from Mailman use Mailman's VERP feature so each recipient gets an
individual message whether or not personalization is on. Mailman
delivers over 50 messages per second to Postfix or 12,000 messages in 4
minutes. This is based on up to 600+ messages (my maximum list size is
currently 629), and may slow down some with larger lists as Postfix gets
busier sending, but I'm sure delivery to Postfix of 12,000 messages
would take minutes as opposed to hours.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Sep 29 05:13:36 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 20:13:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.16 release.
In-Reply-To: <51E30DF7.8020306@msapiro.net>
References: <51DF5301.7070802@msapiro.net> <51E30DF7.8020306@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <52479AE0.2090103@msapiro.net>

I am pleased to announce the third release candidate for Mailman 2.1.16.

Python 2.4 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.7 is recommended.

This release has a few new features and several bug fixed as detailed in
the attached README.

Differences from the second candidate are the renaming of the
author_is_list feature to from_is_list to more accurately describe what
it does. This feature has also been extended to provide the option of
leaving the original message intact and wrapping it in an outer part
with Content-Type: message/rfc822.

The from_is_list feature is considered experimental and subject to
change in future releases. It is being released now as a "candidate" to
allow some exposure before the final 2.1.16 release which should occur
in October.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, please see:

http://www.list.org
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
http://mailman.sourceforge.net/

Mailman 2.1.16rc3 can be downloaded from

https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/
http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/

I anticipate that the 2.1.16 final release will be in Mid October.
Bugs found between now and then will be fixed if possible, but I hope
that most if not all changes between now and then will be i18n updates.
Please send any updates to the templates and/or message catalogs in the
2.1.16rc3 release directly to me no later than 15 Oct 2013.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
  New Features

    - There is a new list attribute from_is_list to either rewrite the From:
      header of posts replacing the posters address with that of the list or
      wrap the message in an outer message From: the list for compatability
      with DMARC and or ADSP.  There is a new mm_cfg.py setting
      DEFAULT_FROM_IS_LIST to control the default for new lists, and the
      existing REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS setting has been extended to allow removing
      those headers only for certain from_is_list lists.  This feature must
      be enabled by setting ALLOW_FROM_IS_LIST to Yes in mm_cfg.py.  See the 
      description of these settings in Defaults.py for more detail.  This
      feature is experimental in 2.1.16, and it is subject to change or to
      become just one of the two methods in a subsequent release. People 
      interested in this feature are encouraged to try it and report their
      experiences to the mailman-users at python.org list.

    - There is a new DISPLAY_HELD_SUMMARY_SORT_BUTTONS setting which if set
      in mm_cfg.py will display a set of radio buttons in the admindb held
      message summary to select how the held messages are sorted and grouped
      for display. The exact setting determines the default grouping and
      sorting.  See the description in Defaults.py for details.

    - Setting digest_size_threshhold to zero now means no digests will be
      sent based on size instead of a digest being sent with every post.
      (LP: #558274)

    - There is a new mm_cfg.py setting SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET which will put
      a dynamically generated, hidden hash in the listinfo subscribe form and
      check it upon submission.  Setting this will prevent automated processes
      (bots) from successfully POSTing web subscribes without first retrieving
      and parsing the form from the listinfo page.  The form must also be
      submitted no later than FORM_LIFETIME nor no earlier than
      SUBSCRIBE_FORM_MIN_TIME after retrieval.  Note that enabling this will
      break any static subscribe forms on your site.  See the description in
      Defaults.py for more info.  (LP: #1082746)

    - add_members now has an option to add members with mail delivery disabled
      by admin.  (LP: #1070574)

    - IncomingRunner now logs rejected messages to the vette log.
      (LP: #1068837)

    - The name of the mailmanctl master lock file is now congigurable via the
      mm_cfg.py setting MASTER_LOCK_FILE.  (LP: #1082308)

    - list_lists now has an option to list only lists with public archives.
      (LP: #1082711)

  Contributed programs

    - A new import_majordomo_into_mailman.pl script has been contributed by
      Geoff Mayes.  (LP: #1129742)

    - A new "sitemap" bash script has been contributed by Tomasz Chmielewski
      <mangoo at wpkg.org> to generate a sitemap.xml file of an installation's
      public archives for submission to search engines.

  i18n

    - A Farsi (Persian) translation has been added thanks to Javad Hoseini and
      Mahyar Moghimi.

    - Fixed several misspelled or garbled string replacements in the Spanish
      message catalog.  (LP: #1160138)

    - pt_BR message catalog has two new and an updated message per Hugo Koji
      Kobayashi.  (LP: #1138578)

    - German message catalog has been updated per Ralf Hildebrandt.

    - Corrected typo in templates/it/private.html.

  Bug Fixes and other patches

    - Fixed cron/disabled to send a fresh cookie when notifying disabled
      members.  (LP: #1203200)

    - Added "message_id" to the interpolation dictionary for the Article.html
      template.  (LP: #725498)

    - Changed the admin GUI to report only the bad entries in a list of email
      addresses if any are bad.  (LP: #558253)

    - Added logging for template errors in HyperArch.py.  (LP: #558254)

    - Added more explanation to the bad owner address message from
      bin/newlist.  (LP: #1200763)

    - Fixed a bug causing the admin web interface to fail CSRF checking if
      the list name contains a '+' character.  (LP: #1190802)

    - Fixed bin/mailmanctl -s to not remove the master lock if it can't be
      determined to be truly stale.  (LP: #1189558)

    - It is no longer possible to add 'invalid' addresses to the ban_list
      and the *_these_nonmembers filters from the check boxes on the admindb
      interface.  (LP: #1187201)

    - Backported recognition for mail.ru DSNs and minor bug fixes from
      lp:flufl.bounce.  (LP: #1074592, LP: #1079249 and #1079254)

    - Defended against buggy web servers that don't include an empty
      QUERY_STRING in the CGI environment.  (LP: #1160647)

    - The Switchboard.finish() method now logs the text of the exception when
      it fails to unlink/preserve a .bak file.  (LP: #1165589)

    - The pending (un)subscriptions waiting approval are now sorted by email
      address in the admindb interface as intended.  (LP: #1164160)

    - The subscribe log entry for a bin/add_members subscribe now identifies
      bin/add_members as the source.  (LP: #1161642)

    - Fixed a bug where the Subject: of the user notification of a
      bin/remove_members unsubscribe was not in the user's language.
      (LP: #1161445)

    - Fixed a bug where BounceRunner could create and leave behind zero length
      bounce-events files.  (LP: #1161610)

    - Added recognition for another Yahoo bounce format.  (LP: #1157961)

    - Changed configure's method for getting Python's include directory from
      distutils.sysconfig.get_config_var('CONFINCLUDEPY') to
      distutils.sysconfig.get_python_inc().  (LP: #1098162)

    - Added an Auto-Generated: header to password reminders.  (LP: #558240)

    - Fixed a bug where non-ascii characters in the real name in a subscription
      request could throw a UnicodeEncodeError upon subscription approval and
      perhaps in other situations too.  (LP: #1047100)

    - The query fragments send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner and
      send_unsub_ack_to_this_batch will now assume default values if not set
      in mass unsubscribe URLs.  (LP: #1032378)

    - Replaced utf-8 encoded characters in newly added German templates with
      HTML entities. (LP: #1018208)

From javad at irannopendar.com  Sun Sep 29 21:28:10 2013
From: javad at irannopendar.com (Javad Hoseini-Nopendar)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 22:58:10 +0330
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to retrieve the list of members
Message-ID: <002c01cebd4a$0a14adc0$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>

Hello
I tried to retrieve the list of members of my mailing list using WHO 
command, but it does not return any names. It only returns my own name and 
says that the other members are hidden. I also tried to retrieve the list of 
members from the info-page of group, entering my Admin password, but again 
it was in vain. It says that the members are hidden. It only shows my own 
email address. Of course I can retrieve the list of members from the control 
panel of the mailing list too, but I would like to have a list of members as 
a text file or comma-seperated file or Excel file or something like that. 
That's because I want to have a backup of list-members.

What do you suggest?

Javad Hoseini


From javad at irannopendar.com  Sun Sep 29 21:23:57 2013
From: javad at irannopendar.com (Javad Hoseini-Nopendar)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 22:53:57 +0330
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Does mailman has a mobile version too?
Message-ID: <002801cebd49$7302d1f0$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>

Hello
I would like to know if the current or the future versions of mailman havve 
any mobile version too.

Javad Hoseini
www.IranNopendar.Com
Tel/Fax: +98-21-22369938
Mobile: +98-935-416-7938
Skype: javad2625


From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Mon Sep 30 02:05:08 2013
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:05:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Does mailman has a mobile version too?
In-Reply-To: <002801cebd49$7302d1f0$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
References: <002801cebd49$7302d1f0$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
Message-ID: <5248C034.1030600@Damon-Family.org>

On 9/29/13 3:23 PM, Javad Hoseini-Nopendar wrote:
> Hello
> I would like to know if the current or the future versions of mailman havve 
> any mobile version too.
>
> Javad Hoseini
> www.IranNopendar.Com
> Tel/Fax: +98-21-22369938
> Mobile: +98-935-416-7938
> Skype: javad2625
>
The mailman web pages are just web pages so they CAN be accessed while
mobile. The command line tools can be accessed via a SSH app while
mobile (much nicer to have a real keyboard though).
They aren't particularly designed to be great mobile, but can be used.

There are also apps that will access the web pages and present a
simplified interface.

-- 
Richard Damon


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Sep 30 02:14:40 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 17:14:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to retrieve the list of members
In-Reply-To: <002c01cebd4a$0a14adc0$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
References: <002c01cebd4a$0a14adc0$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
Message-ID: <5248C270.4080605@msapiro.net>

On 09/29/2013 12:28 PM, Javad Hoseini-Nopendar wrote:
> I would like to have a list of members as 
> a text file or comma-seperated file or Excel file or something like that. 
> That's because I want to have a backup of list-members.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Sep 30 02:23:35 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 17:23:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Does mailman has a mobile version too?
In-Reply-To: <002801cebd49$7302d1f0$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
References: <002801cebd49$7302d1f0$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
Message-ID: <5248C487.6010805@msapiro.net>

On 09/29/2013 12:23 PM, Javad Hoseini-Nopendar wrote:
> Hello
> I would like to know if the current or the future versions of mailman havve 
> any mobile version too.


As Richard said, there are mobile web browsing and ssh client apps, but
Mailman itself does not have a "mobile friendly" web UI, at least not
Mailman 2.1.

In Mailman 3, the web UI is separate from the Mailman core which would
make it much easier to develop a mobile friendly web UI, but as far as I
know, the current MM 3 web UI (Postorious -
<https://launchpad.net/postorius>) does not have that (yet).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Mon Sep 30 12:01:53 2013
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 11:01:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Does mailman has a mobile version too?
In-Reply-To: <5248C034.1030600@Damon-Family.org>
References: <002801cebd49$7302d1f0$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
 <5248C034.1030600@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <20130930100153.GK10820@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 08:05:08PM -0400, Richard Damon wrote:
> The mailman web pages are just web pages so they CAN be accessed while
> mobile. The command line tools can be accessed via a SSH app while
> mobile (much nicer to have a real keyboard though).

If you use an Android device, the Hacker's Keyboard [1] is quite dandy
for easy access to useful things like |, ~, TAB, > etc.

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard&hl=en

-- 
"This argument, says a middle-aged lady in a business suit called
 Marion, is just more London stuff ... " (What were her other outfits
 called?)
    -- Guardian style guide, on 'syntax'.

From bryan.wright at rigaku.com  Mon Sep 30 17:35:42 2013
From: bryan.wright at rigaku.com (Bryan Wright)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 15:35:42 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance issues with 12K subscribers and 14K
 subscribers and personalized footers.
In-Reply-To: <52473D05.7070805@msapiro.net>
References: <D4DDDF9D516E564989DDFE39359138EC4C07284C@RAC-BCS-EXCHG1.rac.local>
 <52465BDE.9070601@msapiro.net>,<5246623F.1090909@msapiro.net>
 <tvva0rq83ybbhc4ky11o9tb0.1380346761805@email.android.com>
 <52473D05.7070805@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <D4DDDF9D516E564989DDFE39359138EC4C073D6C@RAC-BCS-EXCHG1.rac.local>

Mark,

Thanks for the help.  Followed the instructions in the FAQ  to get sendmail listening on an alternate port in deferred mode.  That made a huge difference, although not as speedy as your environment, 8122 messages made it from mailman to sendmail in about 30 minutes.

Sep 30 10:07:18 2013 (22267) <AA2751A60453C346982E6748CC55DFB54C7E93D2 at RAC-BCS-EXCHG1.rac.local> smtp to catherine.klein for 8122 recips, completed in 1782.344 seconds

Now I just need to fine-tune sendmail so it speeds up as well, but that's a question for elsewhere.

Thanks again for the help.

Bryan Wright


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 3:33 PM
To: Bryan Wright; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Performance issues with 12K subscribers and 14K subscribers and personalized footers.

On 09/27/2013 10:40 PM, Bryan Wright wrote:
> 
> So back to the speed.   If multiple qrunners won't fix the issue, is
> there any way to speed this up? To get it to process multiple outgoing 
> messages at once?


Before trying to send from Mailman in parallel, you need to look into speeding up the SMTP interaction between Mailman and sendmail, bevcause that's where the real delay exists.


> Could I create multiple lists and then just have the lists subscribed 
> to the one list?  Then each of these lists could use a qrunner?


Yes and no. You could create an umbrella list or use regular_include_lists (see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/TIA9>) to create multiple outgoing messages with fewer recipients, but there is no guarantee that these message's out/ queue entries would all wind up in different OutgoingRunner slices. Actually ensuring that each message is processed by a different OutgoingRunner would, I think, require some kludgey code mods. It would be easier and more productive to modify SMTPDirect to use multiple threads. (There is an 'experimental'
MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS setting documented in Defaults.py, but it is not currently implemented.)


> Could disk access time be an issue?  Could I place the mailman queue 
> directory in a ram disk?


Putting the queue on a ram disk won't help. The queue entry is only picked up at the start of processing and whether it takes microseconds or milliseconds, it is not the source of any significant delay.

Putting the server's swap space on a ram disk could help, but there are other things to try first.

As I said in my original reply, see the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/doA9> and <http://wiki.list.org/x/q4A9>. A local caching DNS may help and if sendmail is doing DNS verification at incoming SMTP time, stopping that will really help. Also ensure you haven't changed the default

SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 0

setting.

Note: as a point of reference, my production server is not very high powered, runs CentOS 5, and has no specific performance tuning. Messages from Mailman use Mailman's VERP feature so each recipient gets an individual message whether or not personalization is on. Mailman delivers over 50 messages per second to Postfix or 12,000 messages in 4 minutes. This is based on up to 600+ messages (my maximum list size is currently 629), and may slow down some with larger lists as Postfix gets busier sending, but I'm sure delivery to Postfix of 12,000 messages would take minutes as opposed to hours.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan