From kjohnson at pcc.edu  Wed May  1 00:10:42 2013
From: kjohnson at pcc.edu (Kirke Johnson)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 15:10:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is changing list names to upper case
 first letter; how can that be changed? Are list names not case-sensitive?
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz-Ub5gxe833pBFeAP5rVM+1Ywx3VOO0_m-w=z5_1nFNvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFMGiz8PTO=EiZyLN+L+ARGzGtDC+pdopDcoZQoeJ07qS=4BHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<51802871.5010209@msapiro.net>
	<CAFMGiz-Ub5gxe833pBFeAP5rVM+1Ywx3VOO0_m-w=z5_1nFNvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACWHpAx1FMrXsxzLNiEpPJznh0Per2obKhU+zafk8rd5LhLqXw@mail.gmail.com>

BRAVO! I have been working around that behavior in Mailman-related scripts
for years. Too bad they now have me migrating from Mailman to Google
Groups...............

Kirke Johnson                               Internet: kjohnson at pcc.edu
Email Administrator, TSS , Sylvania Campus
Portland Community College, Portland, OR, USA     (971) 722-4368


On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Tom Browder <tom.browder at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:24 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> > On 04/30/2013 12:15 PM, Tom Browder wrote:
> >>
> >> I assume there is some way to change that behavior in a python file,
> but where?
> ...
> > If you want to change this default, edit the module Mailman/MailList.py.
> > Around line 352 you'll see
> >
> >         self.real_name = internalname[0].upper() + internalname[1:]
> >
> > Change that to
> >
> >         self.real_name = internalname
>
> That did it, Mark, great help as usual!
>
> Thanks a heap (one more question coming later if I can't sort it out).
>
> Best regards,
>
> -Tom
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kjohnson%40pcc.edu
>

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Wed May  1 12:08:27 2013
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 05:08:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List doesn't appear on list overview page
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz9MNdFkAO8ekd-XG-S2oovrXy-C=3de6OhEgPu4agUTHw@mail.gmail.com>

My third problem this week:  I have about 30 lists for one domain on
an Unbuntu 10 server.

All lists but one appear on the list overview page, but that lists
works fine otherwise.  The overview pages accessed from it shows all
lists but it.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Best regards,

-Tom

From srf at sanger.ac.uk  Wed May  1 12:15:22 2013
From: srf at sanger.ac.uk (Simon Fraser)
Date: Wed, 01 May 2013 11:15:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List doesn't appear on list overview page
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz9MNdFkAO8ekd-XG-S2oovrXy-C=3de6OhEgPu4agUTHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFMGiz9MNdFkAO8ekd-XG-S2oovrXy-C=3de6OhEgPu4agUTHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1367403322.3583.18.camel@ubu101751>

On Wed, 2013-05-01 at 05:08 -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> My third problem this week:  I have about 30 lists for one domain on
> an Unbuntu 10 server.
> 
> All lists but one appear on the list overview page, but that lists
> works fine otherwise.  The overview pages accessed from it shows all
> lists but it.

Under 'Privacy Options' for that list, what's the option "Advertise this
list when people ask what lists are on this machine?" set to?

Simon.




-- 
 The Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute is operated by Genome Research 
 Limited, a charity registered in England with number 1021457 and a 
 company registered in England with number 2742969, whose registered 
 office is 215 Euston Road, London, NW1 2BE. 

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May  2 03:24:53 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 01 May 2013 18:24:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List doesn't appear on list overview page
In-Reply-To: <1367403322.3583.18.camel@ubu101751>
References: <CAFMGiz9MNdFkAO8ekd-XG-S2oovrXy-C=3de6OhEgPu4agUTHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1367403322.3583.18.camel@ubu101751>
Message-ID: <5181C065.2070602@msapiro.net>

On 05/01/2013 03:15 AM, Simon Fraser wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-05-01 at 05:08 -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
>>
>> All lists but one appear on the list overview page, but that lists
>> works fine otherwise.  The overview pages accessed from it shows all
>> lists but it.
> 
> Under 'Privacy Options' for that list, what's the option "Advertise this
> list when people ask what lists are on this machine?" set to?


If that doesn't solve the problem, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/6oA9> and others linked therefrom.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Thu May  2 10:40:53 2013
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 03:40:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List doesn't appear on list overview page
In-Reply-To: <1367403322.3583.18.camel@ubu101751>
References: <CAFMGiz9MNdFkAO8ekd-XG-S2oovrXy-C=3de6OhEgPu4agUTHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1367403322.3583.18.camel@ubu101751>
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz_3Y9gACVM+XtBw2mbfz-55ArkqinunZSXPtnFKrPpisg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 5:15 AM, Simon Fraser <srf at sanger.ac.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-05-01 at 05:08 -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
...
>> All lists but one appear on the list overview page, but that lists
...
> Under 'Privacy Options' for that list, what's the option "Advertise this
> list when people ask what lists are on this machine?" set to?

That was it, Simon.

Thanks!

-Tom

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Thu May  2 10:44:17 2013
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 03:44:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List doesn't appear on list overview page
In-Reply-To: <5181C065.2070602@msapiro.net>
References: <CAFMGiz9MNdFkAO8ekd-XG-S2oovrXy-C=3de6OhEgPu4agUTHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1367403322.3583.18.camel@ubu101751> <5181C065.2070602@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz9Ac+PPFQJKJ-OgtO2+T+4xwrKE_yU+DTar6JKH6sCCjA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 8:24 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 05/01/2013 03:15 AM, Simon Fraser wrote:
>> On Wed, 2013-05-01 at 05:08 -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
>>>
>>> All lists but one appear on the list overview page, but that lists
>>> works fine otherwise.  The overview pages accessed from it shows all
>>> lists but it.
>>
>> Under 'Privacy Options' for that list, what's the option "Advertise this
>> list when people ask what lists are on this machine?" set to?
>
>
> If that doesn't solve the problem, see the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/6oA9> and others linked therefrom.

The 'Advertise this list...' did it.

Thanks, Mark!

-Tom

From bcanty at apsa.org  Fri May  3 16:04:59 2013
From: bcanty at apsa.org (Brian Canty)
Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 10:04:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe problem
Message-ID: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE201809555@apsaserv.APSA.local>

I have removed all my subscribers from a list, but 2 of them will not
unsubscribe.  Does anyone know of any way I can get to the raw
subscription list and manually remove them?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Brian Canty

Manager, Computer Information Services

American Psychoanalytic Association

(212) 752-0450 x17

 

www.apsa.org

 


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri May  3 19:37:34 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 04 May 2013 02:37:34 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  unsubscribe problem
In-Reply-To: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE201809555@apsaserv.APSA.local>
References: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE201809555@apsaserv.APSA.local>
Message-ID: <87ip30ufq9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brian Canty writes:

 > I have removed all my subscribers from a list, but 2 of them will not
 > unsubscribe.  Does anyone know of any way I can get to the raw
 > subscription list and manually remove them?

Membership management | mass remove from that list's admin page?  Or
is that what you've already done and somehow they don't disappear?


From dave at hamnet.org  Fri May  3 19:17:28 2013
From: dave at hamnet.org (Dave Foran)
Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 13:17:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP
Message-ID: <006a01ce4822$1688e000$439aa000$@hamnet.org>

I have an issue and I am confused on how to fix the problem

 

I have root access and I can not create a  new list from the web site

 

Any ideas ????

 

Dave

 

--

Dave Foran                                          Internet ONLY:
<mailto:dave at hamnet.org> dave at hamnet.org

Cruise Missile Coordinates 41.36.46N 81.25.53W

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May  4 01:47:42 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 03 May 2013 16:47:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP
In-Reply-To: <006a01ce4822$1688e000$439aa000$@hamnet.org>
References: <006a01ce4822$1688e000$439aa000$@hamnet.org>
Message-ID: <51844C9E.4000504@msapiro.net>

On 05/03/2013 10:17 AM, Dave Foran wrote:
> 
> I have root access and I can not create a  new list from the web site


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From gnugo at gmx.com  Mon May  6 15:22:38 2013
From: gnugo at gmx.com (gnugo)
Date: Mon, 06 May 2013 15:22:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site list is missing: mailman
In-Reply-To: <CAAdA2WO8wuZbauzeDN+Es+QS8vBv6jVVA1uSdG49ubyQZEvaVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5177E606.4050805@email.it>
	<CAAdA2WO8wuZbauzeDN+Es+QS8vBv6jVVA1uSdG49ubyQZEvaVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5187AE9E.5050602@gmx.com>

Hi

I tried the following
[root at h1 ~]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/newlist mailman
[...]
List already exists: mailman

[root at h1 ~]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/rmlist mailman
Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
Removing list info

[root at h1 ~]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/newlist mailman
Enter the email of the person running the list: xxxx at xxx.xx
Initial mailman password:
Hit enter to notify mailman owner...

[root at h1 ~]#  /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 607, in <module>
     main()
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 426, in main
     check_for_site_list()
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 326, in check_for_site_list
     sitelist = MailList(sitelistname, lock=0)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
     self.Load()
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 639, in Load
     dict, e = self.__load(file)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 605, in __load
     fp = open(dbfile)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
'/irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck'

[root at h1 ~]# ls -ls /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck
4 -rw-rw---- 1 root mailman 3702 May  6 15:14 
/irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck

[root at h1 ~]# chown mailman /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck

[root at h1 ~]#  /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
Site list is missing: mailman

I tried the same on a normal filesystem (ext4) and all went well, so I'm 
suspecting that the issue is related to some locking problem.

cheers
francesco


On 04/25/2013 05:37 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> cd /irafs0/mailman/bin
> ./check_perms -f
> ./check_perms
> ./newlist mailman
>
> If it says the list exists, you can remove it and recreate -
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/site-list.html
> I see no harm in doing that.
>
>
> On 24 April 2013 17:02, cesco<hrd at email.it>  wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> on a RHEL6.4 with mailman-2.1.12-18 on amd64, I'm trying to run mailman with
>> all his /var/lib/mailman stuff (archives, data, lists, spam)stored on a
>> lustre 2.1.5 filesystem.
>>
>> when I try to start mailman (either '/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start'
>> or '/etc/init.d/mailman start') it says:
>>
>> Site list is missing: mailman
>>
>> and in /var/log/mailman/error
>>
>> Apr 24 15:53:17 2013 (30798) IOError reading list extension: [Errno 13]
>> Permission denied: '/irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/extend.py'
>> Apr 24 15:53:17 2013 mailmanctl(30798): Site list is missing: mailman
>> Apr 24 15:53:17 2013 (30798) Site list is missing: mailman
>>
>> VAR_PREFIX is set to '/irafs0/mailman' in both Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py for
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/925502
>>
>> ls -ls /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck
>> 4 -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 3763 Apr 23 12:00
>> /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck
>>
>> I'm suspecting that can be some lock problem. I tried to mount the lustre
>> volume with nolock, localflock and flock, but nothing changes.
>>
>> any hints?
>> thank
>>
>> francesco
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/odhiambo%40gmail.com
>
>
>


From krylov.r00t at gmail.com  Sun May  5 15:19:42 2013
From: krylov.r00t at gmail.com (Krylov Ivan)
Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 17:19:42 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How does Mailman determine what thread does a given
 message belong to?
Message-ID: <51865C6E.1080207@gmail.com>

Hi!

I'm running a mailing list with several webmail client users who chose 
to receive digests. How should they properly send replies, so they get 
in the proper thread?

Moderator of mailman-users at python.org suggested me to write a proper 
Subject:
> People can reply to the digest and just change the Subject: and edit
> out the irrelevant quotes;
But when I tried simulating this behaviour by writing to 
<mylistaddress>@<mylistdomain> with Subject: being "Re: [<my list name>] 
<The thread I wanted to reply to>", I ended up creating a new thread. 
This probably was a mistake, and Mailman is able to determine which 
thread to put reply to by combination of Subject: and In-Reply-To: 
headers, but I am not completely sure.

Also another user replied to the digest she received without changing 
the Subject: (which was also a mistake), and this also caused creating a 
new thread.

Can somebody please point me at the logic which Mailman uses to 
determine the target thread of a given message? Does it only look for 
In-Reply-To: header, or it uses some heuristics which can be used by 
digested webmail users?

Best regards,
Ivan.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May  6 21:21:27 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 06 May 2013 12:21:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How does Mailman determine what thread does a
 given message belong to?
In-Reply-To: <51865C6E.1080207@gmail.com>
References: <51865C6E.1080207@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <518802B7.7090700@msapiro.net>

On 05/05/2013 06:19 AM, Krylov Ivan wrote:
> 
> I'm running a mailing list with several webmail client users who
> chose to receive digests. How should they properly send replies, so
> they get in the proper thread?


There are several ways.

1) Subscribe to the MIME format digest and use a mail client that
understands the MIME digest format and allows you to reply to
individual message attachments in the digest.
2) Generate the reply by going to the message in the list's archives
and replying via the mailto: link (from the author's email address)
3) Make sure the Subject: of the reply matches the Subject: of the
message being replied to (only works in Mailman 2.1.14 and newer).



> Can somebody please point me at the logic which Mailman uses to 
> determine the target thread of a given message? Does it only look
> for In-Reply-To: header, or it uses some heuristics which can be
> used by digested webmail users?


Mailman threads first by In-Reply-To: header, second by References:
header and third (only since 2.1.14) by Subject: header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Mon May  6 22:54:17 2013
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 06 May 2013 15:54:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman security question
Message-ID: <1367873657.32653.34.camel@pudina.fmp.com>

Is there any support in any version of Mailman for total end to end
message security?  This would involve being able to send, say, a GPG (or
PGP) encrypted post to a list, using the list's public key, having the
list decrypt it, and then repost it to all subscribers, encrypted for
each using their respective public keys.

Granted that such a facility would be a system resources suck of an
order of magnitude greater than a simple, unencrypted list, however I
can see that it might well be useful in some cases.

It would also, in the current political climate, doubtless be deemed to
be something close to a national security threat, and even discussing
the idea might attract DHS attention.  I do recall that some years ago
that Phil Zimmerman, who invented PGP, was the subject of a criminal
investigation since the PGP algorithm was deemed by the US government to
be "weapon" subject to export controls.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Behold! Our way lies through a
FMP Computer Services |    dark wood whence in which
512-259-1190          |      weirdness may wallow!?
http://www.fmp.com    |           --Beauregard


From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Mon May  6 23:41:37 2013
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Mon, 06 May 2013 17:41:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman security question
In-Reply-To: <1367873657.32653.34.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
References: <1367873657.32653.34.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <51882391.4020405@bellsouth.net>

On 5/6/2013 4:54 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> Is there any support in any version of Mailman for total end to end
> message security?  This would involve being able to send, say, a GPG (or
> PGP) encrypted post to a list, using the list's public key, having the
> list decrypt it, and then repost it to all subscribers, encrypted for
> each using their respective public keys.
>
> Granted that such a facility would be a system resources suck of an
> order of magnitude greater than a simple, unencrypted list, however I
> can see that it might well be useful in some cases.
>
> It would also, in the current political climate, doubtless be deemed to
> be something close to a national security threat, and even discussing
> the idea might attract DHS attention.  I do recall that some years ago
> that Phil Zimmerman, who invented PGP, was the subject of a criminal
> investigation since the PGP algorithm was deemed by the US government to
> be "weapon" subject to export controls.
>
There is a patch that is supposed to do that. I have not tried it.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558189

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From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue May  7 03:40:36 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 07 May 2013 10:40:36 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Mailman security question
In-Reply-To: <1367873657.32653.34.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
References: <1367873657.32653.34.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <87y5brlg8b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Lindsay Haisley writes:

 > Is there any support in any version of Mailman for total end to end
 > message security?

Not in a distributed version, although as mentioned in another post
there's a patch.  There's a GSoC proposal to implement some such thing
for Mailman 3, with a reasonable UI for handling user pubkey and such,
but I can't say at this point whether that project will be approved
(Google rules).

Also, "total end to end security" is a fantasy.  The attack surface in
the mail system is huge, even if the messages are encrypted in
transport.  Without specifying what the "ends" are (workstations? 
MTAs? users?) and whether traffic analysis or a court-authorized
"wiretap" at the Mailman site is considered a threat, I can't help you
on whether any given system might be considered "secure" or not.

 > It would also, in the current political climate, doubtless be deemed to
 > be something close to a national security threat,

AFAIK PGP-style encryption is no longer considered munitions.  As long
as the crypto stuff is done by third-party modules, Mailman has no
problem, I think.  (We can distribute a ROT13 implementation without
bothering even a member of the Bush family, let alone sophisticated
Dems like Al Gore, The Father of the Internet as We Know It.... :-)

Steve

From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Tue May  7 04:10:50 2013
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 06 May 2013 21:10:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman security question
In-Reply-To: <87y5brlg8b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <1367873657.32653.34.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
	<87y5brlg8b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <1367892650.32653.43.camel@pudina.fmp.com>

On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 10:40 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Lindsay Haisley writes:
> 
>  > Is there any support in any version of Mailman for total end to end
>  > message security?
> 
> Not in a distributed version, although as mentioned in another post
> there's a patch.  There's a GSoC proposal to implement some such thing
> for Mailman 3, with a reasonable UI for handling user pubkey and such,
> but I can't say at this point whether that project will be approved
> (Google rules).
> 
> Also, "total end to end security" is a fantasy.  The attack surface in
> the mail system is huge, even if the messages are encrypted in
> transport.  Without specifying what the "ends" are (workstations? 
> MTAs? users?) and whether traffic analysis or a court-authorized
> "wiretap" at the Mailman site is considered a threat, I can't help you
> on whether any given system might be considered "secure" or not.

My thought is that "total security" would be MUA to MUA, with the
assumption that most MUAs can handle encryption using GnuPGP, Enigmail,
or some such.

Of course these days nothing is totally secure, since in a pinch, and
given a little time, a supercomputer can break even a 4096 bit, or
larger key.

This is, at this point, curiosity on my part rather than a need for this
capability.

>  > It would also, in the current political climate, doubtless be deemed to
>  > be something close to a national security threat,
> 
> AFAIK PGP-style encryption is no longer considered munitions.  As long
> as the crypto stuff is done by third-party modules, Mailman has no
> problem, I think.  (We can distribute a ROT13 implementation without
> bothering even a member of the Bush family, let alone sophisticated
> Dems like Al Gore, The Father of the Internet as We Know It.... :-)

I suppose ROT13 would fall under just about everyone's radar ;)  I mean,
who would suspect ....

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "The difference between a duck is because
FMP Computer Services |    one leg is both the same"
512-259-1190          |     - Anonymous
http://www.fmp.com    |


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Tue May  7 04:40:22 2013
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 06 May 2013 21:40:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Tangential encryption issue, FWIW
Message-ID: <1367894422.32653.54.camel@pudina.fmp.com>

Pursuant to a conversation I had on this list last year, I did develop a
patch and application for AES encryption of the address of the posting
subscriber and the list name and poking the result into the
Resent-Message-ID.  This is a patch against MM 2.1.15, not against the
v3 development tree.  I know I did suggest that I intended to put
together some suggested code which would implement this in v3, but as
they say, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.  I have a lot
on my plate.

If anyone would like a copy of my work, it's pretty simple, and if
someone wants to pick up the ball and put it into MM3 they have my
blessing.  Let me know.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "We have met the enemy and he is us."
FMP Computer Services |
512-259-1190          |          -- Pogo
http://www.fmp.com    |


From cp at ccil.org  Tue May  7 08:40:20 2013
From: cp at ccil.org (Chuck Peters)
Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 02:40:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Mail
In-Reply-To: <20130429104427.GF3728@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <000b01ce4451$2f559260$0201a8c0@home3c459be30f>
	<517D98A9.2030307@msapiro.net>
	<878v42vzes.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20130429104427.GF3728@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA+8RQb-2fOGi_pj2uDc-xsQ1+XNg0QpDcLDSezsoKvadXiMuA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Adam McGreggor <adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk>wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 11:33:31AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
> > All of the registration
> > procedures are different,
>
> They used to be quite hidden, but I seem to be able to find them quite
> easily, when I need to, these days.
>

Do you have some suggestions where to find them other than wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feedback_loop_(email)?


> > as are the procedures for getting out of the
> > doghouse once you land there (and anybody mailing to 10,000 people or
> > more on one service does sooner or later).
>
> +1. Even 5000 seems to be the threshold these days, for unknown
> netblocks.
>

Our largest list is currently about 8,500 and we are being forced to
renumber
due to an upstream contract, and the fact that we lack our own IP space...
I so wish I had some IPv4 addresses...


Chuck

From krylov.r00t at gmail.com  Tue May  7 21:47:23 2013
From: krylov.r00t at gmail.com (Krylov Ivan)
Date: Tue, 07 May 2013 23:47:23 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How does Mailman determine what thread does a
 given message belong to?
In-Reply-To: <518802B7.7090700@msapiro.net>
References: <51865C6E.1080207@gmail.com> <518802B7.7090700@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <51895A4B.1000200@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mailman threads first by In-Reply-To: header, second by References:
> header and third (only since 2.1.14) by Subject: header.
Thanks for your reply, that's exactly what I've been looking for!

> 2) Generate the reply by going to the message in the list's archives
> and replying via the mailto: link (from the author's email address)
That's probably impossible with webmail, but I'll try to convince that 
users to use a proper mail client.

Best regards,
Ivan.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May  8 06:05:45 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 07 May 2013 21:05:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Mail
In-Reply-To: <CAA+8RQb-2fOGi_pj2uDc-xsQ1+XNg0QpDcLDSezsoKvadXiMuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000b01ce4451$2f559260$0201a8c0@home3c459be30f>
	<517D98A9.2030307@msapiro.net>
	<878v42vzes.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20130429104427.GF3728@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
	<CAA+8RQb-2fOGi_pj2uDc-xsQ1+XNg0QpDcLDSezsoKvadXiMuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5189CF19.80507@msapiro.net>

On 05/06/2013 11:40 PM, Chuck Peters wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Adam McGreggor <adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk>wrote:
>>
>> They used to be quite hidden, but I seem to be able to find them quite
>> easily, when I need to, these days.
>>
> 
> Do you have some suggestions where to find them other than wikipedia,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feedback_loop_(email)?


Per the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9>, see
<http://wiki.wordtothewise.com/ISP_Summary_Information>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May  8 06:49:20 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 07 May 2013 21:49:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site list is missing: mailman
In-Reply-To: <5187AE9E.5050602@gmx.com>
References: <5177E606.4050805@email.it>
	<CAAdA2WO8wuZbauzeDN+Es+QS8vBv6jVVA1uSdG49ubyQZEvaVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5187AE9E.5050602@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <5189D950.7090806@msapiro.net>

On 05/06/2013 06:22 AM, gnugo wrote:
> 
> [root at h1 ~]#  /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 607, in <module>
>     main()
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 426, in main
>     check_for_site_list()
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 326, in check_for_site_list
>     sitelist = MailList(sitelistname, lock=0)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
>     self.Load()
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 639, in Load
>     dict, e = self.__load(file)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 605, in __load
>     fp = open(dbfile)
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
> '/irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck'
> 
> [root at h1 ~]# ls -ls /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck
> 4 -rw-rw---- 1 root mailman 3702 May  6 15:14
> /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck


This would seem to indicate a SELinux or other security management type
of issue unless the Mailman user is something other than 'mailman'. Is
the Mailman user 'mailman'? What are the permissions on each directory
in the path /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/?


> [root at h1 ~]# chown mailman /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck
> 
> [root at h1 ~]#  /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
> Site list is missing: mailman


This is very strange. The file exists, so it shouldn't be 'missing'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Wed May  8 10:14:19 2013
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman Admin)
Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 10:14:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Tangential encryption issue, FWIW
In-Reply-To: <1367894422.32653.54.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
References: <1367894422.32653.54.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <518A095B.2040802@uni-konstanz.de>

Hello Lindsay Haisley


Am 2013-05-07 04:40, schrieb Lindsay Haisley:
> Pursuant to a conversation I had on this list last year, I did develop a
> patch and application for AES encryption of the address of the posting
> subscriber and the list name and poking the result into the
> Resent-Message-ID.  This is a patch against MM 2.1.15, not against the
> v3 development tree.  I know I did suggest that I intended to put
> together some suggested code which would implement this in v3, but as
> they say, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.  I have a lot
> on my plate.
> 
> If anyone would like a copy of my work, it's pretty simple, and if
> someone wants to pick up the ball and put it into MM3 they have my
> blessing.  Let me know.
> 

Does that patch activate it for all lists, or selective for specified lists?


Kind regards,
Christian Mack


From gnugo at gmx.com  Wed May  8 10:26:17 2013
From: gnugo at gmx.com (gnugo)
Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 10:26:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site list is missing: mailman
In-Reply-To: <5189D950.7090806@msapiro.net>
References: <5177E606.4050805@email.it>
	<CAAdA2WO8wuZbauzeDN+Es+QS8vBv6jVVA1uSdG49ubyQZEvaVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5187AE9E.5050602@gmx.com> <5189D950.7090806@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <518A0C29.7000804@gmx.com>

On 05/08/2013 06:49 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> This would seem to indicate a SELinux or other security management type
> of issue unless the Mailman user is something other than 'mailman'. Is
> the Mailman user 'mailman'? What are the permissions on each directory
> in the path /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/?
>
SELinux is disabled

ls -ls /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/
4 -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 3702 May  6 15:14 config.pck

ls -lsd /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/
4 drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 May  6 15:14 /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/

>> [root at h1 ~]# chown mailman /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck
>>
>> [root at h1 ~]#  /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
>> Site list is missing: mailman
>
> This is very strange. The file exists, so it shouldn't be 'missing'.
>
It's probably something related to lustre. there is some file access or 
locking method that can cause the issue?
the filesystem is working well with other applications.

cheers
francesco


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May  8 19:53:15 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 10:53:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site list is missing: mailman
In-Reply-To: <518A0C29.7000804@gmx.com>
References: <5177E606.4050805@email.it>
	<CAAdA2WO8wuZbauzeDN+Es+QS8vBv6jVVA1uSdG49ubyQZEvaVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5187AE9E.5050602@gmx.com> <5189D950.7090806@msapiro.net>
	<518A0C29.7000804@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <518A910B.6010401@msapiro.net>

On 05/08/2013 01:26 AM, gnugo wrote:> On 05/08/2013 06:49 AM, Mark
Sapiro wrote:
>> What are the permissions on each directory
>> in the path /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/?
>>

> ls -lsd /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/
> 4 drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 May  6 15:14
> /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/


And what about

ls -ld /irafs0/mailman/lists
ls -ld /irafs0/mailman
ls -ld /irafs0

What are the settings in Defaults.py and (if any) in mm_cfg.py for
MAILMAN_GROUP and MAILMAN_USER?


>> This is very strange. The file exists, so it shouldn't be 'missing'.
>>
> It's probably something related to lustre. there is some file access or
> locking method that can cause the issue?


I'm not familiar with lustre, but I don't know of any locking issue that
could cause this. It may well be that for reasons I don't understand
lustre file systems are not compatible with Mailman. Does lustre honor
effective uid/gid and SETGID bits on executables?

What happens if you do

su -u mailman
touch /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/test_file
ls -l /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/test_file
python -c "open('/irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/test_file')"

Does the python command issue any error?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From adamsca at gmail.com  Wed May  8 21:41:02 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 12:41:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Withlist with python module to change all lists to
	non-advertised
Message-ID: <CAA13W+92U38x9ZCbhmZFNy3nbcXb6_70wEAvHjUwi5ML=pXEBQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have been tasked to look into modifying all existing lists to be
non-advertised. I have some knowledge of how withlist works with python.
Has anyone created a module for use with python taht will accomplish this.
I may have to get in and learn python again.

Many thanks....

-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May  8 21:57:42 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 12:57:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Withlist with python module to change all lists
 to non-advertised
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+92U38x9ZCbhmZFNy3nbcXb6_70wEAvHjUwi5ML=pXEBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA13W+92U38x9ZCbhmZFNy3nbcXb6_70wEAvHjUwi5ML=pXEBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <518AAE36.7030905@msapiro.net>

On 5/8/2013 12:41 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> I have been tasked to look into modifying all existing lists to be
> non-advertised. I have some knowledge of how withlist works with python.
> Has anyone created a module for use with python taht will accomplish this.
> I may have to get in and learn python again.


You don't need withlist for this, although you could do it with
something as simple as

def set_non_advertised(mlist):
    mlist.advertised = 0

All you need to do is create a one-line file containing

advertised = 0

and run

#! /bin/sh
cd /path/to/mailman
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare` ; do
    bin/config_list -i /path/to/file
done

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From adamsca at gmail.com  Wed May  8 22:09:00 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 13:09:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Withlist with python module to change all lists
 to non-advertised
In-Reply-To: <518AAE36.7030905@msapiro.net>
References: <CAA13W+92U38x9ZCbhmZFNy3nbcXb6_70wEAvHjUwi5ML=pXEBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<518AAE36.7030905@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAA13W+958OrBticX31P98pVYsEirWBtgLDmYfAKn_0YJ30U1ng@mail.gmail.com>

Geez, that is even documented.
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030597

Thanks, Mark for getting me on the right track.


On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 5/8/2013 12:41 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> > I have been tasked to look into modifying all existing lists to be
> > non-advertised. I have some knowledge of how withlist works with python.
> > Has anyone created a module for use with python taht will accomplish
> this.
> > I may have to get in and learn python again.
>
>
> You don't need withlist for this, although you could do it with
> something as simple as
>
> def set_non_advertised(mlist):
>     mlist.advertised = 0
>
> All you need to do is create a one-line file containing
>
> advertised = 0
>
> and run
>
> #! /bin/sh
> cd /path/to/mailman
> for list in `bin/list_lists --bare` ; do
>     bin/config_list -i /path/to/file
> done
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adamsca%40gmail.com
>



-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From larry at qhpress.org  Wed May  8 17:15:14 2013
From: larry at qhpress.org (Larry Kuenning)
Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 11:15:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail delivery to site list
Message-ID: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org>

Unlike Francesco's problem, my site list does exist (it was given as 
part of the pre-installed Mailman on my Linux VPS from Network 
Solutions), and after some trouble I've gotten it to put its 
configuration pages at the right URL (lists.mydomain), to list me as the 
owner (instead of noreply at networksolutions.com), and to let me in with a 
password of my own devising.

But mail doesn't get delivered to it.  Mail to mailman at mydomain lands in 
my catchall mailbox, where all the spam for unknown users goes.

This doesn't happen to my regular mailing lists, which I created on this 
server using Plesk (which came preinstalled).  (These lists existed on 
my previous server but were managed by different mailing list software.) 
  Only after setting up my regular lists did I find there was supposed 
to be a "site list" called mailman at mydomain.

I realize this may conceivably be a Postfix issue, or even a Plesk 
issue, but I thought someone here might be able to guess the answer.  My 
own guess, as far as it goes, is that the problem has something to do 
with this server being set up to host multiple virtual domains, and with 
the site list having been created by Network Solutions before I 
installed my own virtual domain.

I've thought of deleting the existing site list and recreating it 
through Plesk, since I know that lists created through Plesk work.  I'm 
reluctant to try this since it would create an interval when the site 
list doesn't exist at all, and I've read that Mailman refuses to operate 
at all under those conditions.  Anyway I would rather know how to find 
whatever is misconfigured about the present site list.

My VPS is running GNU/Linux kernel 2.6.18-028stab101.1 on some kind of 
x86_64 (data reported by uname).  From the generic hardware name and the 
fact that they call it a VPS I suppose this is a virtual machine running 
on some more powerful kind of hardware.

Thanks,

-- 
Larry Kuenning
larry at qhpress.org

From larry at qhpress.org  Wed May  8 17:28:12 2013
From: larry at qhpress.org (Larry Kuenning)
Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 11:28:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail delivery to site list
In-Reply-To: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org>
References: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org>
Message-ID: <518A6F0C.3060203@qhpress.org>

A few minutes ago I wrote:

> my site list does exist....  But mail doesn't get delivered to it....
> My own guess, as far as it goes, is that the problem has something to
> do with this server being set up to host multiple virtual domains,
> and with the site list having been created by Network Solutions
> before I installed my own virtual domain.

I think I've just found the problem.  Doing a dumpdb on the site list 
and on one of my regular lists, I find that 'host_name' is different.

So probably all I need to know is how to get the correct name (the 
virtual domain name) into the list database where Mailman will find it.

I'm still new to Mailman and Python, though I've done various other 
sorts of Unix programming (including writing my own software for the 
previous incarnation of my mailing lists, using shellscripts).

-- 
Larry Kuenning
larry at qhpress.org

From larry at qhpress.org  Wed May  8 17:50:22 2013
From: larry at qhpress.org (Larry Kuenning)
Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 11:50:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail delivery to site list
In-Reply-To: <518A6F0C.3060203@qhpress.org>
References: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org> <518A6F0C.3060203@qhpress.org>
Message-ID: <518A743E.6080106@qhpress.org>

Oops, another self-reply:

> I think I've just found the problem.  Doing a dumpdb on the site list
> and on one of my regular lists, I find that 'host_name' is different.

Wrong.  I was looking at an old dumpdb output file, from before I ran 
fix_url to get the configuration pages to show up.  On rerunning dumpdb 
I find that host_name has been correct for a day or two now and the 
problem must be somewhere else.

-- 
Larry Kuenning
larry at qhpress.org

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May  9 00:58:22 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 15:58:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail delivery to site list
In-Reply-To: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org>
References: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org>
Message-ID: <518AD88E.40400@msapiro.net>

On 05/08/2013 08:15 AM, Larry Kuenning wrote:
> 
> But mail doesn't get delivered to it.  Mail to mailman at mydomain lands in
> my catchall mailbox, where all the spam for unknown users goes.


This is a Postfix issue and it's probably as simple as missing aliases
or virtual mappings.

I will comment further in additional replies.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May  9 01:06:00 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 16:06:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail delivery to site list
In-Reply-To: <518A743E.6080106@qhpress.org>
References: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org> <518A6F0C.3060203@qhpress.org>
	<518A743E.6080106@qhpress.org>
Message-ID: <518ADA58.504@msapiro.net>

On 05/08/2013 08:50 AM, Larry Kuenning wrote:
> 
> Wrong.  I was looking at an old dumpdb output file, from before I ran
> fix_url to get the configuration pages to show up.  On rerunning dumpdb
> I find that host_name has been correct for a day or two now and the
> problem must be somewhere else.


My best SWAG (sophisticated wild-ass guess) is you have Postfix/Mailman
integration and the necessary aliases and virtual mappings were
generated for each list as you created it, but since the 'mailman' list
pre-existed, it doesn't have them.

If this is the case, i.e. if you look at Mailman's data/aliases (and
data/virtual-mailman if there is one) files and see entries for all but
the mailman list, running Mailmamn's bin/genaliases should fix it.

If the issue is something else, we'd need to start by seeing the output
of 'postconf -n' and the contents of mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From larry at qhpress.org  Thu May  9 02:53:29 2013
From: larry at qhpress.org (Larry Kuenning)
Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 20:53:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail delivery to site list
In-Reply-To: <518ADA58.504@msapiro.net>
References: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org> <518A6F0C.3060203@qhpress.org>
	<518A743E.6080106@qhpress.org> <518ADA58.504@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <518AF389.8050703@qhpress.org>

On 5/8/2013 7:06 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> My best SWAG (sophisticated wild-ass guess) is you have Postfix/Mailman
> integration and the necessary aliases and virtual mappings were
> generated for each list as you created it, but since the 'mailman' list
> pre-existed, it doesn't have them.

Sounds plausible.  Unfortunately I don't know enough about either 
Postfix or Mailman yet to have a clear idea how to explore the way they 
might be integrated on this system.

> If this is the case, i.e. if you look at Mailman's data/aliases (and
> data/virtual-mailman if there is one) files and see entries for all but
> the mailman list, running Mailmamn's bin/genaliases should fix it.

By "data/" I suppose you mean (on my system) /var/lib/mailman/data/.
/var/lib/mailman/ contains four subdirectories: archives, data, lists, 
and spam.  But in this data directory there's nothing but some 
heldmsg-[listname]-[n].pck files and a symbolic link to 
/etc/mailman/sitelist.cfg.  Nothing called aliases or virtual-mailman.

sitelist.cfg sounds like it might be relevant, but grepping it for blank 
lines not beginning with # I don't see any plausible leads, just a bunch 
of list management options like "advertised = 0".

> If the issue is something else, we'd need to start by seeing the output
> of 'postconf -n' and the contents of mm_cfg.py.

OK, here they are:

-----<begin output of postconf -n>----
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/spool/postfix/plesk/aliases
allow_mail_to_commands = alias, forward
allow_mail_to_files = alias, forward
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
disable_vrfy_command = yes
html_directory = no
inet_interfaces = all
inet_protocols = all
mail_owner = postfix
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq.postfix
manpage_directory = /usr/share/man
message_size_limit = 10240000
mydestination = localhost.$mydomain, localhost, localhost.localdomain
myhostname = 0373951.netsolvps.com
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [::1]/128 207.204.52.48/32
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases.postfix
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.3.3/README_FILES
sample_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.3.3/samples
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix
setgid_group = postdrop
smtp_send_xforward_command = yes
smtp_tls_security_level = may
smtp_use_tls = no
smtpd_authorized_xforward_hosts = 127.0.0.0/8 [::1]/128
smtpd_client_restrictions =
smtpd_proxy_timeout = 3600s
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, check_client_access 
pcre:/var/spool/postfix/plesk/no_relay.re, permit_sasl_authenticated, 
reject_unauth_destination
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sender_restrictions = check_sender_access 
hash:/var/spool/postfix/plesk/blacklists, permit_sasl_authenticated, 
check_client_access pcre:/var/spool/postfix/plesk/non_auth.re
smtpd_timeout = 3600s
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/postfix/postfix_default.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file = $smtpd_tls_cert_file
smtpd_tls_security_level = may
smtpd_use_tls = yes
transport_maps = hash:/var/spool/postfix/plesk/transport
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
virtual_alias_maps = $virtual_maps, hash:/var/spool/postfix/plesk/virtual
virtual_gid_maps = static:31
virtual_mailbox_base = /var/qmail/mailnames
virtual_mailbox_domains = $virtual_mailbox_maps, 
hash:/var/spool/postfix/plesk/virtual_domains
virtual_mailbox_maps = hash:/var/spool/postfix/plesk/vmailbox
virtual_transport = plesk_virtual
virtual_uid_maps = static:110
-----<end output of postconf -n>-----

So much for postconf -n, which I guess tells us where to look for the 
relevant aliases.  Unfortunately I don't know enough about Postfix yet 
to be familiar with digging through these compiled database files and 
changing their values.

Now here's mm_cfg.py, which seems to contain a lot of commentary by at 
least two different authors (the second one says he's about to "override 
shipped defaults"), with one line at the very end that's really specific 
to my setup.  (Some of the lines here may be wrapped sooner than they 
should be, unless that's just the way Thunderbird displays them to me.)

-----<begin mm_cfg.py>-----
# -*- python -*-

# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001,2002 by the Free Software 
Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.

"""This module contains your site-specific settings.

 From a brand new distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py.  If you
already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings you
want.  Mailman's installation procedure will never overwrite your mm_cfg.py
file.

The complete set of distributed defaults, with documentation, are in the 
file
Defaults.py.  In mm_cfg.py, override only those you want to change, 
after the

   from Defaults import *

line (see below).

Note that these are just default settings; many can be overridden via the
administrator and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis.

"""

###############################################
# Here's where we get the distributed defaults.

from Defaults import *
import pwd, grp

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.

##############################################################
#    Here's where we override shipped defaults with settings #
#    suitable for the RPM package.                           #
MAILMAN_UID = pwd.getpwnam('mailman')[2]
MAILMAN_GID = grp.getgrnam('mailman')[2]

##############################################################
#    Set URL and email domain names                          #
#
# Mailman needs to know about (at least) two fully-qualified domain
# names (fqdn)
#
# 1) the hostname used in your urls (DEFAULT_URL_HOST)
# 2) the hostname used in email addresses for your domain 
(DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
#
# For example, if people visit your Mailman system with
# "http://www.dom.ain/mailman" then your url fqdn is "www.dom.ain",
# and if people send mail to your system via "yourlist at dom.ain" then
# your email fqdn is "dom.ain".  DEFAULT_URL_HOST controls the former,
# and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST controls the latter.  Mailman also needs to
# know how to map from one to the other (this is especially important
# if you're running with virtual domains).  You use
# "add_virtualhost(urlfqdn, emailfqdn)" to add new mappings.

# Default to using the FQDN of machine mailman is running on.
# If this is not correct for your installation delete the following 5
# lines that acquire the FQDN and manually edit the hosts instead.

from socket import *
try:
     fqdn = getfqdn()
except:
     fqdn = 'mm_cfg_has_unknown_host_domains'

DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = fqdn
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = fqdn

# Because we've overriden the virtual hosts above add_virtualhost
# MUST be called after they have been defined.

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)


##############################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . #
# See Defaults.py for explanations of the values.            #

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg, 
but you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in Defaults.py.
add_virtualhost('lists.qhpress.org', 'qhpress.org')
-----<end mm_cfg.py>-----

(This is me again.)  That last line was different until I changed it 
just now; it was:
	add_virtualhost('lists.qhpress.org')
which looks to me like it might have been the problem.

But maybe it wasn't.  After changing it I've tried posting to the site 
list again, with no luck.  Repeated this after reloading Mailman, and 
yet again after stopping and restarting Mailman -- still no luck.  (At 
least I didn't break the other lists in the process!)  Does this file 
have to be compiled before it works?  I see a .pyc and a .pyo next to it 
in the ~mailman/Mailman directory.  I don't know anything yet about 
compiling Python files.

If I had landed in this system after careful planning, probably I would 
have learned more about Postfix and Mailman before starting to use it. 
Unfortunately there was a disaster on my previous host which caused a 
near-total e-mail delivery failure for about a week, and this prompted 
me to jump into a new hosting solution as fast as I could.  Hence this 
help-what-do-I-do-now approach to learning how to use it.

Thanks for taking a look at this stuff!

-- 
Larry Kuenning
larry at qhpress.org

From odhiambo at gmail.com  Thu May  9 08:08:01 2013
From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 09:08:01 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nightly_htdig failing ...
Message-ID: <CAAdA2WO4S-15zExPxfAVa4Dx3cP6Hmq1AzjDwXqUfmN4zPH8iQ@mail.gmail.com>

For a few days now, I am getting my nightly htdig failing. When I check the
permissions on mailman home, of course I find problems with permissions,
but this has not been happening previously. I haven't changed anything on
this system for ages, except during upgrades.

root at gw:/usr/local/mailman/bin # ./check_perms
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kictanet/attachments/20130508
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kictanet/attachments/20130509
Problems found: 2
Re-run as mailman (or root) with -f flag to fix
root at gw:/usr/local/mailman/bin # ./check_perms -f
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kictanet/attachments/20130508 (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kictanet/attachments/20130509 (fixing)
Problems found: 2
Re-run as mailman (or root) with -f flag to fix
root at gw:/usr/local/mailman/bin # ./check_perms -f
No problems found
root at gw:/usr/local/mailman/bin #

Any ideas what could be causing this?


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cron Daemon <mailman at gw>
Date: 9 May 2013 06:04
Subject: Cron <mailman at gw> /usr/local/bin/python -S
/usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_htdig
To: mailman at gw


mv: rename /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kictanet/htdig/root2word.db
to /usr/local/share/htdig/common/root2word.db: Operation not permitted
mv: rename /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kictanet/htdig/word2root.db
to /usr/local/share/htdig/common/word2root.db: Operation not permitted
mv: rename /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kictanet/htdig/synonyms.db
to /usr/local/share/htdig/common/synonyms.db: Operation not permitted



-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
"I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May  9 18:55:06 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 09:55:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail delivery to site list
In-Reply-To: <518AF389.8050703@qhpress.org>
References: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org> <518A6F0C.3060203@qhpress.org>
	<518A743E.6080106@qhpress.org> <518ADA58.504@msapiro.net>
	<518AF389.8050703@qhpress.org>
Message-ID: <518BD4EA.4010802@msapiro.net>

On 05/08/2013 05:53 PM, Larry Kuenning wrote:

> -----<begin output of postconf -n>----
> alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/spool/postfix/plesk/aliases
[...]
> transport_maps = hash:/var/spool/postfix/plesk/transport
> unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
> virtual_alias_maps = $virtual_maps, hash:/var/spool/postfix/plesk/virtual


What's in the aliases, transport and virtual files in
/var/spool/postfix/plesk/?

Also, what's in /etc/postfix/master.cf?

Aside, please see the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/tIA9> and
<http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.



> -----<begin mm_cfg.py>-----
[...]
> add_virtualhost('lists.qhpress.org', 'qhpress.org')
> -----<end mm_cfg.py>-----
> 
> (This is me again.)  That last line was different until I changed it
> just now; it was:
>     add_virtualhost('lists.qhpress.org')
> which looks to me like it might have been the problem.


Actually,

add_virtualhost('lists.qhpress.org', 'qhpress.org')

and

add_virtualhost('lists.qhpress.org')

are equivalent because if the second argument is omitted, it is
constricted by stripping the initial part up through the first dot from
the first argument.


> But maybe it wasn't.  After changing it I've tried posting to the site
> list again, with no luck.  Repeated this after reloading Mailman, and
> yet again after stopping and restarting Mailman -- still no luck.  (At
> least I didn't break the other lists in the process!)  Does this file
> have to be compiled before it works?  I see a .pyc and a .pyo next to it
> in the ~mailman/Mailman directory.  I don't know anything yet about
> compiling Python files.


Python will detect that the .py is newer than the .py[co] and recompile
automatically on import.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From adamsca at gmail.com  Thu May  9 22:30:25 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 13:30:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <CAA13W+8BRnZAcLWJdtHwa8-bWa+_FS3UDKJOWow1en0SPhfs7w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have posted here before about mail issues that may not be strictly a
Mailman problem. However, this time there is something Mailman-related that
I need to figure out.

A week or so ago, a remote mail server that all of our list mail goes
through used a spam vendor that had slapped a signature on our server
address, so mail was being held there. i think that was resolved.

After a week or so of mail successfully working, it has tailed off again.
The remote mail server administrator can't identify that there is a spam
problem, though Yahoo and Verizon have apparently temporaily blocked mail
from our server due to the traffic.

In tests, I send various mail (list traffic, subscription requests, mail
directly to the listname-owner address, etc) and it reaches the server, but
goes nowhere from there.

At 12 noon, messages that had been sent but not delivered earlier today,
suddenly were all sent. This sure seems like a cron (not a con) job, but I
haven't a clue why. As far as I know the only Mailman cron job that runs at
12 noon is the digest generation.

I am really puzzled here. This may be a Postfix/MTA issue, maybe a local
server issue, but I am mainly curious about the batch send that occurred.

Here is an entry from maillog. It shows a message being delivered to the
alias, then removed from the queue. The message never gets to the person
behind the alias.


May  9 12:57:49 swiki postfix/smtpd[26679]: E774019985DC: client=
nm2-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com[98.139.213.127]
May  9 12:57:50 swiki postfix/cleanup[26968]: E774019985DC: message-id=<
1368129468.24511.YahooMailNeo at web164901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
May  9 12:57:50 swiki postfix/qmgr[23217]: E774019985DC: from=<me at yahoo.com>,
size=3404, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
May  9 12:57:50 swiki postfix/local[27542]: E774019985DC: to=<
test7-owner at mydomain.com>, relay=local, delay=0.9, delays=0.74/0/0/0.16,
dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner test7)
May  9 12:57:50 swiki postfix/qmgr[23217]: E774019985DC: removed

-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 10 00:04:40 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 15:04:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nightly_htdig failing ...
In-Reply-To: <CAAdA2WO4S-15zExPxfAVa4Dx3cP6Hmq1AzjDwXqUfmN4zPH8iQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAdA2WO4S-15zExPxfAVa4Dx3cP6Hmq1AzjDwXqUfmN4zPH8iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <518C1D78.9040602@msapiro.net>

On 05/08/2013 11:08 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> For a few days now, I am getting my nightly htdig failing. When I check the
> permissions on mailman home, of course I find problems with permissions,
> but this has not been happening previously. I haven't changed anything on
> this system for ages, except during upgrades.
> 
[...]
> root at gw:/usr/local/mailman/bin # ./check_perms -f
> No problems found
> root at gw:/usr/local/mailman/bin #


check_perms is not perfect :(


> Any ideas what could be causing this?
> 
> mv: rename /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kictanet/htdig/root2word.db
> to /usr/local/share/htdig/common/root2word.db: Operation not permitted
> mv: rename /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kictanet/htdig/word2root.db
> to /usr/local/share/htdig/common/word2root.db: Operation not permitted
> mv: rename /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kictanet/htdig/synonyms.db
> to /usr/local/share/htdig/common/synonyms.db: Operation not permitted


The lack of permission in this case is correct. the files in
/usr/local/share/htdig/common/ are base files. It looks like htdig is
trying to replace them with ones from the kicktanet list. I don't think
it should be doing that. Compare the
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kictanet/htdig/kicktanet.conf file
with ones from other lists and see if anything looks suspicious.

You can find htdig docs at <http://www.htdig.org/>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 10 00:23:37 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 15:23:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+8BRnZAcLWJdtHwa8-bWa+_FS3UDKJOWow1en0SPhfs7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA13W+8BRnZAcLWJdtHwa8-bWa+_FS3UDKJOWow1en0SPhfs7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <518C21E9.2070408@msapiro.net>

On 05/09/2013 01:30 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> 
> At 12 noon, messages that had been sent but not delivered earlier today,
> suddenly were all sent. This sure seems like a cron (not a con) job, but I
> haven't a clue why. As far as I know the only Mailman cron job that runs at
> 12 noon is the digest generation.
> 
> I am really puzzled here. This may be a Postfix/MTA issue, maybe a local
> server issue, but I am mainly curious about the batch send that occurred.
> 
> Here is an entry from maillog. It shows a message being delivered to the
> alias, then removed from the queue. The message never gets to the person
> behind the alias.
> 
> 
> May  9 12:57:49 swiki postfix/smtpd[26679]: E774019985DC: client=
> nm2-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com[98.139.213.127]
[...]


Does Mailman deliver directly to the remote server or via Postfix? If
directly, what does Mailman's smtp log say about the posts that were
delayed. I.e. a post to a list will have an entry like

May 09 12:53:47 2013 (6114)
<009b01ce4cee$e4c00540$ae400fc0$@xxx at example.com> smtp to LISTNAME for
237 recips, completed in 4.337 seconds

which says the the message with message-id
<009b01ce4cee$e4c00540$ae400fc0$@xxx at example.com> was delivered from the
LISTNAME list to (in this case) 237 reqular subscribers and SMTP to the
MTSA was completed at 12:53:47 (and started 4.337 seconds earlier).

I suspect they were delivered to the remote server well before and not
all at once at noon.

If Mailman delivers via Postfix, what does the maillog say about those
deliveries?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From larry at qhpress.org  Fri May 10 02:59:04 2013
From: larry at qhpress.org (Larry Kuenning)
Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 20:59:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail delivery to site list
In-Reply-To: <518BD4EA.4010802@msapiro.net>
References: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org> <518A6F0C.3060203@qhpress.org>
	<518A743E.6080106@qhpress.org> <518ADA58.504@msapiro.net>
	<518AF389.8050703@qhpress.org> <518BD4EA.4010802@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <518C4658.60902@qhpress.org>

On 5/9/2013 12:55 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> -----<begin output of postconf -n>----
>> alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
>> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/spool/postfix/plesk/aliases
> [...]
>> transport_maps = hash:/var/spool/postfix/plesk/transport
>> unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
>> virtual_alias_maps = $virtual_maps, hash:/var/spool/postfix/plesk/virtual
>
> What's in the aliases, transport and virtual files in
> /var/spool/postfix/plesk/?

Well, that's what they used to call the $64000 question.  These are all 
Berkeley Database .db files, which I've never worked with before.  If I 
knew how to read these files (and understand their content, and edit 
them where necessary) I might be able to solve the whole problem from there.

Apparently this server already has a package called db4-utils installed. 
  I don't know whether these are enough.  It's not clear whether there 
are normal man pages for them.

> Also, what's in /etc/postfix/master.cf?

#
# Postfix master process configuration file.  For details on the format
# of the file, see the master(5) manual page (command: "man 5 master").
#
# ==========================================================================
# service type  private unpriv  chroot  wakeup  maxproc command + args
#               (yes)   (yes)   (yes)   (never) (100)
# ==========================================================================
smtp inet n - n - - smtpd -o smtpd_proxy_filter=127.0.0.1:10025
#submission inet n       -       n       -       -       smtpd
#  -o smtpd_enforce_tls=yes
#  -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes
#  -o smtpd_client_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject
#smtps     inet  n       -       n       -       -       smtpd
#  -o smtpd_tls_wrappermode=yes
#  -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes
#  -o smtpd_client_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject
#628      inet  n       -       n       -       -       qmqpd
pickup fifo n - n 60 1 pickup -o content_filter=smtp:127.0.0.1:10027
cleanup   unix  n       -       n       -       0       cleanup
qmgr fifo n - n 1 1 qmgr
#qmgr     fifo  n       -       n       300     1       oqmgr
tlsmgr    unix  -       -       n       1000?   1       tlsmgr
rewrite   unix  -       -       n       -       -       trivial-rewrite
bounce    unix  -       -       n       -       0       bounce
defer     unix  -       -       n       -       0       bounce
trace     unix  -       -       n       -       0       bounce
verify    unix  -       -       n       -       1       verify
flush     unix  n       -       n       1000?   0       flush
proxymap  unix  -       -       n       -       -       proxymap
smtp      unix  -       -       n       -       -       smtp
# When relaying mail as backup MX, disable fallback_relay to avoid MX loops
relay     unix  -       -       n       -       -       smtp
         -o fallback_relay=
#       -o smtp_helo_timeout=5 -o smtp_connect_timeout=5
showq     unix  n       -       n       -       -       showq
error     unix  -       -       n       -       -       error
discard   unix  -       -       n       -       -       discard
local     unix  -       n       n       -       -       local
virtual   unix  -       n       n       -       -       virtual
lmtp      unix  -       -       n       -       -       lmtp
anvil     unix  -       -       n       -       1       anvil
scache    unix  -       -       n       -       1       scache
#
# ====================================================================
# Interfaces to non-Postfix software. Be sure to examine the manual
# pages of the non-Postfix software to find out what options it wants.
#
# Many of the following services use the Postfix pipe(8) delivery
# agent.  See the pipe(8) man page for information about ${recipient}
# and other message envelope options.
# ====================================================================
#
# maildrop. See the Postfix MAILDROP_README file for details.
# Also specify in main.cf: maildrop_destination_recipient_limit=1
#
maildrop  unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
   flags=DRhu user=vmail argv=/usr/local/bin/maildrop -d ${recipient}
#
# The Cyrus deliver program has changed incompatibly, multiple times.
#
old-cyrus unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
   flags=R user=cyrus argv=/usr/lib/cyrus-imapd/deliver -e -m 
${extension} ${user}
# Cyrus 2.1.5 (Amos Gouaux)
# Also specify in main.cf: cyrus_destination_recipient_limit=1
cyrus     unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
   user=cyrus argv=/usr/lib/cyrus-imapd/deliver -e -r ${sender} -m 
${extension} ${user}
#
# See the Postfix UUCP_README file for configuration details.
#
uucp      unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
   flags=Fqhu user=uucp argv=uux -r -n -z -a$sender - $nexthop!rmail 
($recipient)
#
# Other external delivery methods.
#
ifmail    unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
   flags=F user=ftn argv=/usr/lib/ifmail/ifmail -r $nexthop ($recipient)
bsmtp     unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
   flags=Fq. user=foo argv=/usr/local/sbin/bsmtp -f $sender $nexthop 
$recipient

plesk_virtual unix - n n - - pipe flags=DORhu user=popuser:popuser 
argv=/usr/lib64/plesk-9.0/postfix-local -f ${sender} -d ${recipient} -p 
/var/qmail/mailnames
mailman unix - n n - - pipe flags=R user=mailman:mailman 
argv=/usr/lib64/plesk-9.0/postfix-mailman ${nexthop} ${user} ${recipient}
127.0.0.1:10025 inet n n n - - spawn user=mhandlers-user 
argv=/usr/lib64/plesk-9.0/postfix-queue 127.0.0.1 10027 before-queue
127.0.0.1:10026 inet n - n - - smtpd  -o smtpd_client_restrictions=  -o 
smtpd_helo_restrictions=  -o smtpd_sender_restrictions=  -o 
smtpd_recipient_restrictions=permit_mynetworks,reject  -o 
smtpd_data_restrictions=  -o 
receive_override_options=no_unknown_recipient_checks
127.0.0.1:10027 inet n n n - - spawn user=mhandlers-user 
argv=/usr/lib64/plesk-9.0/postfix-queue 127.0.0.1 10026 before-remote
plesk_saslauthd unix y y n - 1 plesk_saslauthd status=5 listen=6 
dbpath=/var/spool/postfix/plesk/passwd.db
smtps inet n - n - - smtpd -o smtpd_proxy_filter=127.0.0.1:10025 -o 
smtpd_tls_wrappermode=yes

[ end of /etc/postfix/master.cf ]

> Aside, please see the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/tIA9> and
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.

Yes, I saw these; that's why I wrote in my first post, "I realize this 
may conceivably be a Postfix issue, or even a Plesk issue, but I thought 
someone here might be able to guess the answer."

I would most like to find out how to get into those .db files.  Failing 
that, I wonder if it would do any good to delete the site list from the 
command line and recreate it using Plesk (which seems to produce usable 
lists on this system).  But can this be done safely?  Doesn't it say 
somewhere that Mailman won't run if the site list doesn't exist?  (It 
would have to go out of existence briefly in order to recreate it.)

-- 
Larry Kuenning
larry at qhpress.org

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 10 03:43:56 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 18:43:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail delivery to site list
In-Reply-To: <518C4658.60902@qhpress.org>
References: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org> <518A6F0C.3060203@qhpress.org>
	<518A743E.6080106@qhpress.org> <518ADA58.504@msapiro.net>
	<518AF389.8050703@qhpress.org> <518BD4EA.4010802@msapiro.net>
	<518C4658.60902@qhpress.org>
Message-ID: <518C50DC.9000706@msapiro.net>

On 05/09/2013 05:59 PM, Larry Kuenning wrote:
> On 5/9/2013 12:55 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>> What's in the aliases, transport and virtual files in
>> /var/spool/postfix/plesk/?
> 
> Well, that's what they used to call the $64000 question.  These are all
> Berkeley Database .db files, which I've never worked with before.  If I
> knew how to read these files (and understand their content, and edit
> them where necessary) I might be able to solve the whole problem from
> there.


There should be both an aliases (plain text) and an aliases.db
(database) and likewise for virtual(.db) and transport(.db). The .db
files are made from the plain text files by the Postfix commands
postalias in the case of aliases and postmap in the case of the others.

If those plain text files aren't in the same directory, they are
somewhere, but I can't imagine why they're not there. You might try
locate or find to find them.


>> Also, what's in /etc/postfix/master.cf?
> 
> #
> # Postfix master process configuration file.  For details on the format
> # of the file, see the master(5) manual page (command: "man 5 master").
[...]
> mailman unix - n n - - pipe flags=R user=mailman:mailman
> argv=/usr/lib64/plesk-9.0/postfix-mailman ${nexthop} ${user} ${recipient}


OK, so Plesk has it's own transport for Mailman, possibly related to the
(hated by me) postfix_to_mailman.py <http://wiki.list.org/x/EYDt>

So we need to see the aliases, virtual and transport files in order to
know exactly what addresses are delivered via the 'mailman' transport
and why the 'mailman' list addresses aren't among them.

Or, maybe (thinking diabolically here) Plesk's postfix-mailman process
just discards that mail.


> I would most like to find out how to get into those .db files.


You shouldn't have to. The plain text source must be somewhere.


> Failing
> that, I wonder if it would do any good to delete the site list from the
> command line and recreate it using Plesk (which seems to produce usable
> lists on this system).  But can this be done safely?  Doesn't it say
> somewhere that Mailman won't run if the site list doesn't exist?  (It
> would have to go out of existence briefly in order to recreate it.)


You could do that and as long as my diabolical conjecture is not in
play, it should work. It is safe as long as it doesn't take forever and
isn't done when cron/mailpasswds is running as that 'sends from' the
site list and requires it.

The other process that requires the site list is mailmanctl which
refuses to start Mailman if there's no site list, but it won't notice if
the list disappears after the qrunners are running.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dbenfell at gmail.com  Fri May 10 04:00:49 2013
From: dbenfell at gmail.com (David Benfell)
Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 19:00:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail delivery to site list
In-Reply-To: <518C50DC.9000706@msapiro.net>
References: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org> <518A6F0C.3060203@qhpress.org>
	<518A743E.6080106@qhpress.org> <518ADA58.504@msapiro.net>
	<518AF389.8050703@qhpress.org> <518BD4EA.4010802@msapiro.net>
	<518C4658.60902@qhpress.org> <518C50DC.9000706@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <518C54D1.90106@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 05/09/2013 06:43 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>> I would most like to find out how to get into those .db files.
> 
> You shouldn't have to. The plain text source must be somewhere.
> 
Possibly I should stay out of this; I haven't carefully read the full
thread. But there is the detail of converting those plain text sources
to the .db files. At least some files--I'm not sure on the mailman
side--need to be converted with a manual step:

http://www.postfix.org/DB_README.html

It looks like the relevant commands are postalias (which I've never
used, at least by that name) and postmap.

- -- 
David Benfell / benfell at parts-unknown.org
Please see https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 for GnuPG information (or
the attachment you don't understand)
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Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

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=/2zm
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From key5com at gmail.com  Thu May  9 19:03:11 2013
From: key5com at gmail.com (KEY5)
Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 19:03:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail from one domain (moderators') posts do not
	show up in pending requests
Message-ID: <CAOtq7r_UzeOG_phAJw+=U1XDyeQEhtdKMjVYd0Svz_z_PYQ=PA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
in my list every user is moderated. None can post. Not even owners and
moderators.

If I send an mail from an address (which is also owner and moderator) it
does'nt show up in the pending requests (it'ts been working like that for
years).

If I send an email from a subscriber/non subscriber email address, it is
shown, and can easily be forwarded to the list.

The not working mail comes from another server on the internet, and arrives
with no problem at my server, (running CentOs+cPanel)
and it is forwarded to mailman. But after that, it disappears. (no
occurrencies with grep domain -r *,  in none of the log/any files in
mailman directory)
I thin the problem is the incoming @domain. Since I encounter the same
problem from another.user at nonworkingdomain.com

Exim log shows:

2013-05-09 17:36:47 SMTP connection from ****.****.**
[***.***.***.***]:28571 closed by QUIT
2013-05-09 17:36:47 1UaStj-0002Or-DO => listname <listname at example.com>
R=mailman_virtual_router T=mailman_virtual_transport
2013-05-09 17:36:47 1UaStj-0002Or-DO Completed


Any hint on where to look for?
Thanks.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 10 06:00:09 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 21:00:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail from one domain (moderators') posts do not
 show up in pending requests
In-Reply-To: <CAOtq7r_UzeOG_phAJw+=U1XDyeQEhtdKMjVYd0Svz_z_PYQ=PA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOtq7r_UzeOG_phAJw+=U1XDyeQEhtdKMjVYd0Svz_z_PYQ=PA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <518C70C9.3040306@msapiro.net>

On 05/09/2013 10:03 AM, KEY5 wrote:
> 
> The not working mail comes from another server on the internet, and arrives
> with no problem at my server, (running CentOs+cPanel)
> and it is forwarded to mailman. But after that, it disappears. (no
> occurrencies with grep domain -r *,  in none of the log/any files in
> mailman directory)


The log message you're looking for may not have the sender's
address/domain in it. Discards are logged in the vette log with the
message 'Message discarded, msgid: <message-id>'


> I thin the problem is the incoming @domain. Since I encounter the same
> problem from another.user at nonworkingdomain.com
> 
> Exim log shows:
> 
> 2013-05-09 17:36:47 SMTP connection from ****.****.**
> [***.***.***.***]:28571 closed by QUIT
> 2013-05-09 17:36:47 1UaStj-0002Or-DO => listname <listname at example.com>
> R=mailman_virtual_router T=mailman_virtual_transport
> 2013-05-09 17:36:47 1UaStj-0002Or-DO Completed


So exim says it delivered the mail to Mailman so presumably Mailman
discarded it.

There are a few different reason's why Mailman would do this. The only
ones that occur before the post is held for non-member or moderated
member are:

1) Post is from a moderated member and member_moderation_action is
discard (obviously not the reason here).

2) Post is from a non-member (owners and moderators are not members by
default) and the sender address matches an address or pattern in
discard_these_nonmembers.

3) Post matches a header_filter_rules rule with discard action.

4) Post matches a header/regex in the hard coded KNOWN_SPAMMERS list.

Check Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> discard_these_nonmembers
for a pattern that might match domain.

Check Privacy options... -> Spam filters -> header_filter_rules.

Check mm_cfg.py for a KNOWN_SPAMMERS list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From key5com at gmail.com  Fri May 10 09:36:44 2013
From: key5com at gmail.com (KEY5)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 09:36:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [SOLVED] Re: mail from one domain (moderators')
 posts do not show up in pending requests
In-Reply-To: <518C70C9.3040306@msapiro.net>
References: <CAOtq7r_UzeOG_phAJw+=U1XDyeQEhtdKMjVYd0Svz_z_PYQ=PA@mail.gmail.com>
	<518C70C9.3040306@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAOtq7r_X9k+FZVo=UqTOO6QSAiv+eW8pBxzvxBvPbjixWKWVQQ@mail.gmail.com>

I found the message and it was discarded without expressed reason.
I've read this can happen in many cases.
Maybe it's because the sender's address domain is different from the
incoming smtp request.

Now I've put the sender's address in the "hold_these_nonmembers" list
and I solved. (Admin > Privacy options > Sender filters )
yet I do not know the reason of the problem but fortunately it's not a
problem anymore.

Thankss Mark.
Nicola.

From larry at qhpress.org  Fri May 10 15:02:57 2013
From: larry at qhpress.org (Larry Kuenning)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 09:02:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail delivery to site list
In-Reply-To: <518C54D1.90106@gmail.com>
References: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org> <518A6F0C.3060203@qhpress.org>
	<518A743E.6080106@qhpress.org> <518ADA58.504@msapiro.net>
	<518AF389.8050703@qhpress.org> <518BD4EA.4010802@msapiro.net>
	<518C4658.60902@qhpress.org> <518C50DC.9000706@msapiro.net>
	<518C54D1.90106@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <518CF001.3070105@qhpress.org>

On 5/9/2013 10:00 PM, David Benfell wrote:

> It looks like the relevant commands are postalias (which I've never
> used, at least by that name) and postmap.

Thanks!  Actually I ran across postalias and postmap a couple of hours 
before I saw your post, but it's nice to have this confirmed by someone 
else.  (Actually Mark Sapiro also mentioned them, but I think I saw 
yours first.)

Both of these programs can, I think, be used to create missing text 
files; the difference seems to be that postalias inserts the colons 
needed for alias files and postmap just uses whitespace.  To create the 
text file aliases from the db file aliases.db, the command is:

postalias -s aliases > aliases

-- where the extension .db is not mentioned on either side of the 
redirect but is assumed by postalias on the left side.  If you 
explicitly mention aliases.db then postalias fails and complains that 
aliases.db.db is missing.  The same syntax works for postmap.

Both programs have reasonable man pages.

More on the results in an upcoming reply to Mark Sapiro.

-- 
Larry Kuenning
larry at qhpress.org

From larry at qhpress.org  Fri May 10 15:03:02 2013
From: larry at qhpress.org (Larry Kuenning)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 09:03:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail delivery to site list
In-Reply-To: <518C50DC.9000706@msapiro.net>
References: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org> <518A6F0C.3060203@qhpress.org>
	<518A743E.6080106@qhpress.org> <518ADA58.504@msapiro.net>
	<518AF389.8050703@qhpress.org> <518BD4EA.4010802@msapiro.net>
	<518C4658.60902@qhpress.org> <518C50DC.9000706@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <518CF006.8040708@qhpress.org>

On 5/9/2013 9:43 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> There should be both an aliases (plain text) and an aliases.db
> (database) and likewise for virtual(.db) and transport(.db). The .db
> files are made from the plain text files by the Postfix commands
> postalias in the case of aliases and postmap in the case of the others.
>
> If those plain text files aren't in the same directory, they are
> somewhere, but I can't imagine why they're not there. You might try
> locate or find to find them.

They're not there, or anywhere else.  Or rather they weren't there until 
I created them using postalias as pointed out by David Benfell.

I'm guessing this means that Plesk creates the .db files directly 
without using text files.  Ugh.  Now I wonder, if I use postalias to 
update the .db files after editing my newly created text files, will 
Plesk eventually overwrite my work, say the next time I create a mailbox 
or an e-mail alias?  I guess the way to find out is to try.

>> mailman unix - n n - - pipe flags=R user=mailman:mailman
>> argv=/usr/lib64/plesk-9.0/postfix-mailman ${nexthop} ${user} ${recipient}
>
> OK, so Plesk has it's own transport for Mailman, possibly related to the
> (hated by me) postfix_to_mailman.py <http://wiki.list.org/x/EYDt>
>
> So we need to see the aliases, virtual and transport files in order to
> know exactly what addresses are delivered via the 'mailman' transport
> and why the 'mailman' list addresses aren't among them.

The aliases file tells us nothing to the point (except that it contains 
one example of delivery to a program, which I had tried unsuccessfully 
to do in /etc/aliases -- now I know where to try again).

The transport file shows that Plesk's transport for Mailman is being 
applied to my successfully working lists but not to the site list:

# grep test transport
test at qhpress.org        mailman:post
test-admin at qhpress.org  mailman:admin
test-bounces at qhpress.org        mailman:bounces
test-leave at qhpress.org  mailman:leave
test-owner at qhpress.org  mailman:owner
test-request at qhpress.org        mailman:request
test-unsubscribe at qhpress.org    mailman:unsubscribe
test-confirm at qhpress.org        mailman:confirm
test-join at qhpress.org   mailman:join
test-subscribe at qhpress.org      mailman:subscribe
# grep 'mailman[@-]' transport
[no output]

The virtual file shows virtually the same thing:

# grep test virtual
test at qhpress.org        test at qhpress.org
test-admin at qhpress.org  test-admin at qhpress.org
test-bounces at qhpress.org        test-bounces at qhpress.org
test-leave at qhpress.org  test-leave at qhpress.org
test-owner at qhpress.org  test-owner at qhpress.org
test-request at qhpress.org        test-request at qhpress.org
test-unsubscribe at qhpress.org    test-unsubscribe at qhpress.org
test-confirm at qhpress.org        test-confirm at qhpress.org
test-join at qhpress.org   test-join at qhpress.org
test-subscribe at qhpress.org      test-subscribe at qhpress.org
# grep mailman virtual
mailman-loop at qhpress.org        mailman-loop at localhost.localdomain

My current idea is to add "mailman" lines similar to all the "test" 
lines in transport and virtual and then update transport.db and 
virtual.db with postmap.  (After first making backups of the current 
forms!)  If this creates valid files, will Postfix start using the new 
versions immediately, or do I need to do something else to draw its 
attention to the changes?

>> Failing
>> that, I wonder if it would do any good to delete the site list from the
>> command line and recreate it using Plesk (which seems to produce usable
>> lists on this system).  But can this be done safely?  Doesn't it say
>> somewhere that Mailman won't run if the site list doesn't exist?  (It
>> would have to go out of existence briefly in order to recreate it.)
>
> You could do that and as long as my diabolical conjecture is not in
> play, it should work. It is safe as long as it doesn't take forever and
> isn't done when cron/mailpasswds is running as that 'sends from' the
> site list and requires it.

I see cron/mailpasswds is supposed to run on the first of each month. 
It wasn't done this month (which was the only opportunity so far).  I 
guess that was because it couldn't use the site list.

-- 
Larry Kuenning
larry at qhpress.org

From larry at qhpress.org  Fri May 10 16:53:50 2013
From: larry at qhpress.org (Larry Kuenning)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 10:53:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [SOLVED] no mail delivery to site list
In-Reply-To: <518CF006.8040708@qhpress.org>
References: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org> <518A6F0C.3060203@qhpress.org>
	<518A743E.6080106@qhpress.org> <518ADA58.504@msapiro.net>
	<518AF389.8050703@qhpress.org> <518BD4EA.4010802@msapiro.net>
	<518C4658.60902@qhpress.org> <518C50DC.9000706@msapiro.net>
	<518CF006.8040708@qhpress.org>
Message-ID: <518D09FE.50603@qhpress.org>

On 5/10/2013 9:03 AM, I wrote:

> My current idea is to add "mailman" lines similar to all the "test"
> lines in transport and virtual and then update transport.db and
> virtual.db with postmap.   (After first making backups of the current
 > forms!)

I tried this and it works:  I can now post to the site list.

> If this creates valid files, will Postfix start using the new
> versions immediately, or do I need to do something else to draw its
> attention to the changes?

After updating transport.db and virtual.db, and before posting, I ran 
newaliases just in case, with the result that now I don't know whether 
that step was necessary.

> I'm guessing this means that Plesk creates the .db files directly
> without using text files.  Ugh.  Now I wonder, if I use postalias to
> update the .db files after editing my newly created text files, will
> Plesk eventually overwrite my work, say the next time I create a mailbox
> or an e-mail alias?  I guess the way to find out is to try.

I tried this too, creating a new alias for my catchall box after my 
first successful post.  A second post arrived with no trouble, and 
examining the .db files with postmap shows they are as they should be. 
So at any rate Plesk doesn't throw away data it finds in those files 
that it didn't put there.

Thanks for all your help!

-- 
Larry Kuenning
larry at qhpress.org

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 10 17:05:05 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 08:05:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail delivery to site list
In-Reply-To: <518CF006.8040708@qhpress.org>
References: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org> <518A6F0C.3060203@qhpress.org>
	<518A743E.6080106@qhpress.org> <518ADA58.504@msapiro.net>
	<518AF389.8050703@qhpress.org> <518BD4EA.4010802@msapiro.net>
	<518C4658.60902@qhpress.org> <518C50DC.9000706@msapiro.net>
	<518CF006.8040708@qhpress.org>
Message-ID: <518D0CA1.1010406@msapiro.net>

On 05/10/2013 06:03 AM, Larry Kuenning wrote:
> On 5/9/2013 9:43 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>> If those plain text files aren't in the same directory, they are
>> somewhere, but I can't imagine why they're not there. You might try
>> locate or find to find them.
> 
> They're not there, or anywhere else.  Or rather they weren't there until
> I created them using postalias as pointed out by David Benfell.
> 
> I'm guessing this means that Plesk creates the .db files directly
> without using text files.  Ugh.  Now I wonder, if I use postalias to
> update the .db files after editing my newly created text files, will
> Plesk eventually overwrite my work, say the next time I create a mailbox
> or an e-mail alias?  I guess the way to find out is to try.


I'm guessing Plesk doesn't create the .db files directly, but rather
creates/updates some plain text file and invokes postmap/postalias to
create the .db files, but whether and why it hides the text files with a
different name or doesn't keep them, I have no idea.

Anyway, if you make changes to the aliases.db, virtual.db and/or
transport.db files, Plesk will overwrite them unless it actually uses
these files as the starting point when it adds/deletes info for a list.

Trying will tell.


> The aliases file tells us nothing to the point (except that it contains
> one example of delivery to a program, which I had tried unsuccessfully
> to do in /etc/aliases -- now I know where to try again).


Aliases in /etc/aliases for the 'mailman' list should work, but you also
in your case need virtual mappings to map the 'mailman' list addresses
in the virtual domain to local addresses.


> The transport file shows that Plesk's transport for Mailman is being
> applied to my successfully working lists but not to the site list:
> 
> # grep test transport
> test at qhpress.org        mailman:post
> test-admin at qhpress.org  mailman:admin
> test-bounces at qhpress.org        mailman:bounces
> test-leave at qhpress.org  mailman:leave
> test-owner at qhpress.org  mailman:owner
> test-request at qhpress.org        mailman:request
> test-unsubscribe at qhpress.org    mailman:unsubscribe
> test-confirm at qhpress.org        mailman:confirm
> test-join at qhpress.org   mailman:join
> test-subscribe at qhpress.org      mailman:subscribe
> # grep 'mailman[@-]' transport
> [no output]
> 
> The virtual file shows virtually the same thing:
> 
> # grep test virtual
> test at qhpress.org        test at qhpress.org
> test-admin at qhpress.org  test-admin at qhpress.org
> test-bounces at qhpress.org        test-bounces at qhpress.org
> test-leave at qhpress.org  test-leave at qhpress.org
> test-owner at qhpress.org  test-owner at qhpress.org
> test-request at qhpress.org        test-request at qhpress.org
> test-unsubscribe at qhpress.org    test-unsubscribe at qhpress.org
> test-confirm at qhpress.org        test-confirm at qhpress.org
> test-join at qhpress.org   test-join at qhpress.org
> test-subscribe at qhpress.org      test-subscribe at qhpress.org


Actually, the mapings above don't make sense. They map, e.g., the
virtual domain address test at qhpress.org to the same address,
test at qhpress.org. If this were actually used by Postfix, it would be a
loop. Thus, I think qhpress.org must actually be a Postfix local domain.

But, if that is the case, putting the appropriate

mailman:             "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
...

entries in /etc/aliases and reloading Postfix should work, assuming
there is a mailman/mail/mailman wrapper and it doesn't result in a group
mismatch error <http://wiki.list.org/x/tYA9>.


> # grep mailman virtual
> mailman-loop at qhpress.org        mailman-loop at localhost.localdomain
> 
> My current idea is to add "mailman" lines similar to all the "test"
> lines in transport and virtual and then update transport.db and
> virtual.db with postmap.  (After first making backups of the current
> forms!)  If this creates valid files, will Postfix start using the new
> versions immediately, or do I need to do something else to draw its
> attention to the changes?


That should work, and Postfix will use it more or less immediately (it
detects the change). However, Plesk may reverse it the next time it
makes a change.


> I see cron/mailpasswds is supposed to run on the first of each month. It
> wasn't done this month (which was the only opportunity so far).  I guess
> that was because it couldn't use the site list.


I don't think so. I don't think the list address has to work. The list
only has to exist. But, check the cron log (maybe /var/log/cron or a
rotated older one) to see if there's anything there. Also, it is a good
idea to put a MAILTO= with a good address in Mailman's crontab. Without
it, cron errors probably get mailed to 'mailman' which in your case
doesn't work, and even if it does, the list may not be configured to
accept them even though it should be.

I suspect you'll finally end up deleting the 'mailman' list with
bin/rmlist and then recreating it with Plesk.

The real question is why a Plesk Mailman doesn't have the site list
deliverable in the first place.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 10 17:14:06 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 08:14:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [SOLVED] no mail delivery to site list
In-Reply-To: <518D09FE.50603@qhpress.org>
References: <518A6C02.4050302@qhpress.org> <518A6F0C.3060203@qhpress.org>
	<518A743E.6080106@qhpress.org> <518ADA58.504@msapiro.net>
	<518AF389.8050703@qhpress.org> <518BD4EA.4010802@msapiro.net>
	<518C4658.60902@qhpress.org> <518C50DC.9000706@msapiro.net>
	<518CF006.8040708@qhpress.org> <518D09FE.50603@qhpress.org>
Message-ID: <518D0EBE.5040803@msapiro.net>

On 05/10/2013 07:53 AM, Larry Kuenning wrote:
> On 5/10/2013 9:03 AM, I wrote:
> 
>> If this creates valid files, will Postfix start using the new
>> versions immediately, or do I need to do something else to draw its
>> attention to the changes?
> 
> After updating transport.db and virtual.db, and before posting, I ran
> newaliases just in case, with the result that now I don't know whether
> that step was necessary.


Per my reply that you hadn't seen yet, no it wasn't. newaliases just
updates the .db files for those files in alias_database, i.e.
/etc/aliases in your case.


>> I'm guessing this means that Plesk creates the .db files directly
>> without using text files.  Ugh.  Now I wonder, if I use postalias to
>> update the .db files after editing my newly created text files, will
>> Plesk eventually overwrite my work, say the next time I create a mailbox
>> or an e-mail alias?  I guess the way to find out is to try.
> 
> I tried this too, creating a new alias for my catchall box after my
> first successful post.  A second post arrived with no trouble, and
> examining the .db files with postmap shows they are as they should be.
> So at any rate Plesk doesn't throw away data it finds in those files
> that it didn't put there.


Interesting.

Anyway, I'm glad it's working for you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From larry at qhpress.org  Fri May 10 17:27:15 2013
From: larry at qhpress.org (Larry Kuenning)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 11:27:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing old archives into Mailman
Message-ID: <518D11D3.7030709@qhpress.org>

This is not a request for help but a report of experience in case 
someone else finds it helpful.

I recently migrated some old mailing lists into Mailman.  They had 
previously run on different software (my own), and at first I assumed 
I'd need to keep two sets of archives, putting the old ones on my 
regular website (not the "lists." subdomain created by Mailman).

Then I saw in the FAQ that it was possible to edit list archives.  The 
emphasis there was on deleting posts, but I thought, if this works for 
deleting posts it should also work for adding them.

Fortunately my old archives were already in mbox format.  Or rather, 
almost in mbox format.  The old incarnation of my lists had been on a 
server where I had a low usage quota, so I had been downloading all 
archives over a year old and storing them on my home computer.  In doing 
so, I had passed them through a word processor macro to do some minimal 
cleanup, which was chiefly to remove the ">" that mbox files put in 
front of body lines beginning with "From " ("From the historian's 
viewpoint," one subscriber wrote).

Undoing that change was easy enough, but what I didn't notice was that 
word wrap had gotten imposed on some very long header lines (such as 
"DomainKey-Signatures:").  This damaged the headers and made them appear 
to end sooner, with some of their data falling through into the message 
body.

Usually, when this happened, the "Date:" line would be in the part that 
fell through.  Mailman seems to rely on this line when sorting posts by 
date (it does _not_ rely on the physical order of messages in the mbox 
file).  In the absence of a "Date:" line in the header, Mailman seems to 
use the current time (when it is indexing the archive).

To fix this I had to go back through the imported mbox files and clean 
up the headers.  Since I was doing this in vi over an SSH connection and 
couldn't see clearly whether there was a newline character or only a 
line that was too long for the screen, I decided the safest method was 
just to delete all those overlong headers.  They shouldn't be needed in 
the archive anyway.  (The "Received:" and "Delivered-To:" lines had long 
since been removed by my program, when it saved out a week's files and 
started a new archive.)

I also found some "Date:" lines that had been mistaken from the 
beginning.  One of my subscribers wrote that he had just switched to a 
Mac in order to clear a Windows-based virus out of his mailbox.  Somehow 
his Macintosh had its system date set to August 27, 1956!  Mailman made 
this the first post on the list, followed by a silence of over 40 years. 
  I went back and corrected the date as well as I could and then indexed 
the archive all over again.

Moral:  You can import old mbox files to a Mailman archive, but be sure 
to clean up the headers before you generate the index.

-- 
Larry Kuenning
larry at qhpress.org

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 10 17:28:10 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 08:28:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [SOLVED] Re: mail from one domain (moderators')
 posts do not show up in pending requests
In-Reply-To: <CAOtq7r_X9k+FZVo=UqTOO6QSAiv+eW8pBxzvxBvPbjixWKWVQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOtq7r_UzeOG_phAJw+=U1XDyeQEhtdKMjVYd0Svz_z_PYQ=PA@mail.gmail.com>
	<518C70C9.3040306@msapiro.net>
	<CAOtq7r_X9k+FZVo=UqTOO6QSAiv+eW8pBxzvxBvPbjixWKWVQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <518D120A.8080106@msapiro.net>

On 05/10/2013 12:36 AM, KEY5 wrote:
> 
> Now I've put the sender's address in the "hold_these_nonmembers" list
> and I solved. (Admin > Privacy options > Sender filters )
> yet I do not know the reason of the problem but fortunately it's not a
> problem anymore.


Of all the reasons I gave in my prior reply for an auto discard, the
only ones that come after hold_these_nonemembers are
discard_these_nonmembers and generic_nonmember_action. You said that
most non-member posts were held, so generic_nonmember_action must be
Hold. That leaves discard_these_nonmembers which I suspect contains a
regexp that matches the domain that was discarded.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 10 17:37:23 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 08:37:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there tool convert archived
 files/directories into a mbox file?
In-Reply-To: <BCCC68417875EB469663F8BFA12F73C81F73BAA0@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu>
References: <BCCC68417875EB469663F8BFA12F73C81F73BAA0@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <518D1433.2030806@msapiro.net>

On 05/10/2013 06:35 AM, Xie, Wei wrote:
> 
> Here we have one customer to request migrating all old archived files of
> mailing list ?kinejapan?  under directory
> /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kinejapan prior to 2009 (as attached
> file) to Yale university. Yale university IT guys needs us to create a
> mbox file for these old archived file to be easy for them  to run
> command ?archdo migration.
> 
>  
> 
> I check there is no file kinejapan.mbox   under directory
> /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kinejapan.mbox to match these old
> archived files as attached. This mailing list was maintained by our
> pre-mailman admin, who passed away 2011,  so I do not know why the mbox
> file was missing.  


If ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX is set to 0 in mm_cfg.py, Mailman will not
create/update LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox files.


> Do you know whether there is a tool/method to convert these old archived
> files/directories as attached into a mbox file?


Lots of information is lost if there is no .mbox file.

You can do as well as anything with

cat /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kinejapan/*.txt > kinejapan.mbox

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 10 17:45:34 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 08:45:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing old archives into Mailman
In-Reply-To: <518D11D3.7030709@qhpress.org>
References: <518D11D3.7030709@qhpress.org>
Message-ID: <518D161E.2080003@msapiro.net>

On 05/10/2013 08:27 AM, Larry Kuenning wrote:
> 
> Moral:  You can import old mbox files to a Mailman archive, but be sure
> to clean up the headers before you generate the index.


Yes, that's what bin/arch was designed for.

Also, there is a bin/cleanarch tool, but all it does is look for
unescaped "From " lines in message bodies.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From xie.47 at osu.edu  Fri May 10 18:18:36 2013
From: xie.47 at osu.edu (Xie, Wei)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 16:18:36 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there tool convert archived
 files/directories into a mbox file?
In-Reply-To: <518D1433.2030806@msapiro.net>
References: <BCCC68417875EB469663F8BFA12F73C81F73BAA0@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu>
	<518D1433.2030806@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <BCCC68417875EB469663F8BFA12F73C81F73BCB1@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu>

Mark,

>>> If ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX is set to 0 in mm_cfg.py, Mailman will not create/update LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox files.

In the file mm_cfg.py, there is no ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX setting. There are ONLY following two parameters related to archive.

ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 1
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = Off

In the file Defaults.py, I see ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2.  Also, archiving for other mailing lists work well  including creating/updating LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file.

The archiving for this list 'kinejapan' does not work well. Last June we migrated this list from ListProc to mailman. And Archiving Options were enabled and it is supposed archiving has been working since last June. But two weeks ago we just found archiving did not really work.

1) under /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kinejapan, there was no new archived files/directories;
2) there was no file kinejapan.mbox/kinejapan.mbox

>>Lots of information is lost if there is no .mbox file.
>>
>>You can do as well as anything with
>>
>>cat /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kinejapan/*.txt > kinejapan.mbox

This works for us.

Thanks,

Carl


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 11:37 AM
To: Xie, Wei
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: Is there tool convert archived files/directories into a mbox file?

On 05/10/2013 06:35 AM, Xie, Wei wrote:
> 
> Here we have one customer to request migrating all old archived files 
> of mailing list 'kinejapan'  under directory 
> /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kinejapan prior to 2009 (as 
> attached
> file) to Yale university. Yale university IT guys needs us to create a 
> mbox file for these old archived file to be easy for them  to run 
> command 'archdo migration.
> 
>  
> 
> I check there is no file kinejapan.mbox   under directory
> /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kinejapan.mbox to match these old 
> archived files as attached. This mailing list was maintained by our 
> pre-mailman admin, who passed away 2011,  so I do not know why the 
> mbox file was missing.


If ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX is set to 0 in mm_cfg.py, Mailman will not create/update LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox files.


> Do you know whether there is a tool/method to convert these old 
> archived files/directories as attached into a mbox file?


Lots of information is lost if there is no .mbox file.

You can do as well as anything with

cat /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kinejapan/*.txt > kinejapan.mbox

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bsfinkel at att.net  Fri May 10 21:18:28 2013
From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S. Finkel)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 14:18:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing old archives into Mailman
In-Reply-To: <518D11D3.7030709@qhpress.org>
References: <518D11D3.7030709@qhpress.org>
Message-ID: <518D4804.1050601@att.net>

On 5/10/2013 10:27 AM, Larry Kuenning wrote, in part:
> Fortunately my old archives were already in mbox format.  Or rather,
> almost in mbox format.  The old incarnation of my lists had been on a
> server where I had a low usage quota, so I had been downloading all
> archives over a year old and storing them on my home computer.  In doing
> so, I had passed them through a word processor macro to do some minimal
> cleanup, which was chiefly to remove the ">" that mbox files put in
> front of body lines beginning with "From " ("From the historian's
> viewpoint," one subscriber wrote).


The ">" in front of "From " in message bodies IS REQUIRED.
The separator for individual mail messages in an mbox file
is the "From ....." line that contains a data and maybe a sender
e-mail address.  Any other line that begins in column one with the 
five-character string "From " will be treated as a message separator.

Technically, any character in the first column before "From "
in the next five characters will work; the ">" character is the
one that was chosen a long time ago.

--Barry Finkel

From larry at qhpress.org  Fri May 10 22:36:49 2013
From: larry at qhpress.org (Larry Kuenning)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 16:36:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing old archives into Mailman
In-Reply-To: <518D4804.1050601@att.net>
References: <518D11D3.7030709@qhpress.org> <518D4804.1050601@att.net>
Message-ID: <518D5A61.3020805@qhpress.org>

On 5/10/2013 3:18 PM, Barry S. Finkel wrote:

> The ">" in front of "From " in message bodies IS REQUIRED.

Of course it's required -- as long as the file is serving as a real 
mbox.  That's why I put the ">" back in before having Mailman index the 
files for the archives of the new lists.  ("Undoing that change was easy 
enough" is how I put it in my first post about this.)

I had started taking out the ">" long ago when I thought the only future 
use for these files would be as human-readable text files, where the ">" 
would be perceived as clutter or as a mistaken attempt to indicate 
quotation.  There's no law that says what was once an mbox file has to 
remain an mbox file forever if nobody's going to read it except in a 
notepad or word processor.  Which is what I expected at the time.

-- 
Larry Kuenning
larry at qhpress.org

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 10 22:54:40 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 13:54:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there tool convert archived
 files/directories into a mbox file?
In-Reply-To: <BCCC68417875EB469663F8BFA12F73C81F73BCB1@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu>
References: <BCCC68417875EB469663F8BFA12F73C81F73BAA0@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu>
	<518D1433.2030806@msapiro.net>
	<BCCC68417875EB469663F8BFA12F73C81F73BCB1@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <518D5E90.2050103@msapiro.net>

On 05/10/2013 09:18 AM, Xie, Wei wrote:
> 
> In the file Defaults.py, I see ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2.


That is the normal default meaning archive to moth pipermail and mbox.


> Also, archiving for other mailing lists work well  including creating/updating LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file.
> 
> The archiving for this list 'kinejapan' does not work well. Last June we migrated this list from ListProc to mailman. And Archiving Options were enabled and it is supposed archiving has been working since last June. But two weeks ago we just found archiving did not really work.
> 
> 1) under /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/kinejapan, there was no new archived files/directories;
> 2) there was no file kinejapan.mbox/kinejapan.mbox


I suspect a permissions issue. I suspect you will find a lot of
'shunting' and traceback messages in Mailman's 'error' log and a lot of
posts in Mailman's shunt queue.

If this is the case, fixing the underlying error and then running
bin/unshunt will archive the messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 10 23:41:38 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 14:41:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there tool convert archived
 files/directories into a mbox file?
In-Reply-To: <518D5E90.2050103@msapiro.net>
References: <BCCC68417875EB469663F8BFA12F73C81F73BAA0@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu>
	<518D1433.2030806@msapiro.net>
	<BCCC68417875EB469663F8BFA12F73C81F73BCB1@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu>
	<518D5E90.2050103@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <518D6992.8030506@msapiro.net>

On 05/10/2013 01:54 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 05/10/2013 09:18 AM, Xie, Wei wrote:
>>
>> In the file Defaults.py, I see ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2.
> 
> 
> That is the normal default meaning archive to moth pipermail and mbox.


s/moth/both/

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat May 11 06:53:04 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 13:53:04 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing old archives into Mailman
In-Reply-To: <518D4804.1050601@att.net>
References: <518D11D3.7030709@qhpress.org>
	<518D4804.1050601@att.net>
Message-ID: <87r4hedsnj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Barry S. Finkel writes:

 > The ">" in front of "From " in message bodies IS REQUIRED.

Only by the archive builder.

Specifically, AFAIK you are correct, Pipermail will split an mbox to
messages on any line matching "^From ", and leave any ">From " lines
in the resulting archive.  There are two ways to improve on this.

Generic: Leave the ">" in the mbox file, and use the macro afterward
on the split HTML.  (I think this is what the cleanarch script does.)

Site-specific: use a more accurate regexp to identify the message
separator, possibly augmented by looking for an empty line before and
a RFC 822 header afterward.  Then you can clean up the mbox file.

The generic method is actually more accurate (in some contexts people
actually do post headers in message bodies :), so I recommend it.

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Mon May 13 13:54:07 2013
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 06:54:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe/unsubscribe with CGI script?
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz9en4_YDQkc7frsriyoN1y=qFw34TsQUozyAPfLjwrRYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFMGiz9en4_YDQkc7frsriyoN1y=qFw34TsQUozyAPfLjwrRYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz_D3kJEsU2XbNverTMvpw-K9Os=-+rmQ03ANskgJN+oAQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Tom Browder <tom.browder at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am running Mailman 2 (from package on Debian 6) and am trying to
> build my  own subscription page with a Perl cgi script.
...
> When using real data I get the following response from Mailman
> You must supply a valid email address.

I should have made it clear that when I use the same data on the
Mailman subscription page for the same list all works well.

-Tom

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Mon May 13 13:39:40 2013
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 06:39:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe/unsubscribe with CGI script?
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz9en4_YDQkc7frsriyoN1y=qFw34TsQUozyAPfLjwrRYA@mail.gmail.com>

I am running Mailman 2 (from package on Debian 6) and am trying to
build my  own subscription page with a Perl cgi script.

I viewed the page source of a typical subscription page to find how it
normally works.

I get to the point of subscription and, using modules LWB::UserAgent
and URI::Esacpe do;


    my $browser  = LWP::UserAgent->new;
    # may need to url encode the e-mail
    my $enc_email = uri_escape($email);
    my $enc_name  = uri_escape($fullname);

    my $response = $browser->post(
				  "https://host.org/cgi-bin/mailman/$oper/$list",
				  email    => $enc_email,
				  fullname => $enc_name,
				 );
    if ($response->is_success) {
      $resp  = $response->decoded_content;  # or whatever
    }
    else {
      die $response->status_line;
    }

When using real data I get the following response from Mailman

<quote>
listname Subscription results

You must supply a valid email address.
</quote>

and of course nothing happens.

Any ideas or criticisms are appreciated.

Best regards,

-Tom

From adamsca at gmail.com  Mon May 13 18:32:50 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 09:32:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <518C21E9.2070408@msapiro.net>
References: <CAA13W+8BRnZAcLWJdtHwa8-bWa+_FS3UDKJOWow1en0SPhfs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<518C21E9.2070408@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAA13W+8EqaViZSVxUDBVxEtxvOP76M+S07DsmocazPrBVxEbOg@mail.gmail.com>

Below is a log of a message sent from me. The remote server handles mail
from my mail server. It is sent to the test7 mailing list address. From
there, Mailman/Postfix handles the dissemination of mail. I can't figure
out where it is getting hung up. Sometimes delivery takes 2-8 hours from
the time it was posted.

May 13 08:02:09 swiki postfix/smtpd[15145]: 692E8199849A:
client=remote.mail.server[xxx.xxx.xxx.xx]
May 13 08:02:09 swiki postfix/cleanup[15168]: 692E8199849A:
message-id=<0B03FE68E0E760478D413F045B39A028380320D3 at OSLEXCHANGE.my.mail.server.local
>
May 13 08:02:09 swiki postfix/qmgr[17481]: 692E8199849A:
from=<prvs=1845613428=my.address at my.mail.server>, size=4112, nrcpt=1 (queue
active)
May 13 08:02:09 swiki postfix/local[15169]: 692E8199849A: to=<
test7 at mailmanserver.com>, relay=local, delay=0.13, delays=0.02/0/0/0.1,
dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test7)
May 13 08:02:09 swiki postfix/qmgr[17481]: 692E8199849A: removed


On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 05/09/2013 01:30 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> >
> > At 12 noon, messages that had been sent but not delivered earlier today,
> > suddenly were all sent. This sure seems like a cron (not a con) job, but
> I
> > haven't a clue why. As far as I know the only Mailman cron job that runs
> at
> > 12 noon is the digest generation.
> >
> > I am really puzzled here. This may be a Postfix/MTA issue, maybe a local
> > server issue, but I am mainly curious about the batch send that occurred.
> >
> > Here is an entry from maillog. It shows a message being delivered to the
> > alias, then removed from the queue. The message never gets to the person
> > behind the alias.
> >
> >
> > May  9 12:57:49 swiki postfix/smtpd[26679]: E774019985DC: client=
> > nm2-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com[98.139.213.127]
> [...]
>
>
> Does Mailman deliver directly to the remote server or via Postfix? If
> directly, what does Mailman's smtp log say about the posts that were
> delayed. I.e. a post to a list will have an entry like
>
> May 09 12:53:47 2013 (6114)
> <009b01ce4cee$e4c00540$ae400fc0$@xxx at example.com> smtp to LISTNAME for
> 237 recips, completed in 4.337 seconds
>
> which says the the message with message-id
> <009b01ce4cee$e4c00540$ae400fc0$@xxx at example.com> was delivered from the
> LISTNAME list to (in this case) 237 reqular subscribers and SMTP to the
> MTSA was completed at 12:53:47 (and started 4.337 seconds earlier).
>
> I suspect they were delivered to the remote server well before and not
> all at once at noon.
>
> If Mailman delivers via Postfix, what does the maillog say about those
> deliveries?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From Jan at vic-fontaine.com  Mon May 13 19:07:31 2013
From: Jan at vic-fontaine.com (Jan Krohn)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 00:07:31 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 403 error after prune_arch
Message-ID: <0ce801ce4ffc$5caeb730$160c2590$@vic-fontaine.com>

Hello,

 

I'm still new to permissions, ownership etc. but I have a problem.

 

I installed and executed prune_arch

http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/prune_arch

 

Is this the up to date version?

 

However, after execution, I'm getting a 403 error on the archive pages.

 

I've already checked ownership of the public folders, and confirmed it's
mailman:mailman as it should be (this was a problem before from migrated
lists).

 

Any other idea what to look into?

 

Thanks and best wishes,

Jan


From LarryH at Havard.com  Mon May 13 21:00:08 2013
From: LarryH at Havard.com (Larry E. Havard)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 15:00:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounced mail
Message-ID: <027401ce500c$1661c960$43255c20$@Havard.com>

We are having a problem with members mail getting bounced because the
Hostmonster mailserver being used to send the mail get temporarily
blacklisted.  

Is there any way that when a member has bounced mail that the system can
temporally suspend them for 24 hours and then start up their mail again
automatically



Thanks
Larry



3075 Charlevoix Dr. S.E.
Grand Rapids, MI 49546
616 458 9333 Voice
616 971 1960 Fax




From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 14 00:49:25 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 15:49:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe/unsubscribe with CGI script?
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz9en4_YDQkc7frsriyoN1y=qFw34TsQUozyAPfLjwrRYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFMGiz9en4_YDQkc7frsriyoN1y=qFw34TsQUozyAPfLjwrRYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51916DF5.2060301@msapiro.net>

On 05/13/2013 04:39 AM, Tom Browder wrote:
> 
> I viewed the page source of a typical subscription page to find how it
> normally works.
> 
> I get to the point of subscription and, using modules LWB::UserAgent
> and URI::Esacpe do;
> 
> 
>     my $browser  = LWP::UserAgent->new;
>     # may need to url encode the e-mail
>     my $enc_email = uri_escape($email);
>     my $enc_name  = uri_escape($fullname);
> 
>     my $response = $browser->post(
> 				  "https://host.org/cgi-bin/mailman/$oper/$list",
> 				  email    => $enc_email,
> 				  fullname => $enc_name,
> 				 );
[...]
> When using real data I get the following response from Mailman
> 
> <quote>
> listname Subscription results
> 
> You must supply a valid email address.
> </quote>


I assume $oper is 'subscribe'. There is apparently some incompatibility
between the way perl supplies the post data and the way Python's
cgi.FieldStorage() retrieves it as it is either not seeing the 'email'
name or its value is empty. Those are the only things that produce the
"You must supply a valid email address." response.

You could install the following as a CGI script somewhere and use your
perl module to post to it andsee what it gets.

#!/usr/bin/python

import os
import cgi
import sys

def printenv():
    for n,v in os.environ.items():
        print '%s: %s<br>' % (n,v)
    print '<br>'
    print 'Stdin:<br>'
    sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.read())
    print '<br>'
    print 'CGI:<br>'
    print '%r' % cgi.FieldStorage(keep_blank_values=1)

def generateFormDocument():
    print 'Content-type: text/html'
    print
    print '<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Print Environment</TITLE></HEAD><BODY>'
    printenv()
    print ' </BODY> </HTML>'

if (__name__=='__main__'):
    generateFormDocument()

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 14 00:57:47 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 15:57:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+8EqaViZSVxUDBVxEtxvOP76M+S07DsmocazPrBVxEbOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA13W+8BRnZAcLWJdtHwa8-bWa+_FS3UDKJOWow1en0SPhfs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<518C21E9.2070408@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+8EqaViZSVxUDBVxEtxvOP76M+S07DsmocazPrBVxEbOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51916FEB.9020100@msapiro.net>

On 05/13/2013 09:32 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> Below is a log of a message sent from me. The remote server handles mail
> from my mail server. It is sent to the test7 mailing list address. From
> there, Mailman/Postfix handles the dissemination of mail.


Does Mailman send to your Postfix to relay to the remote server. If so,
what are the Postfix log entries for the mail from Mailman through
Postfix to the remote server?

In any case, what is Mailman's smtp log entry for the post (the one for
the message-id of the post)?

The time stamp of the smtp log entry is the time that Mailman completed
smtp delivery of the post to Postfix or the remote server as the case
may be.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 14 01:13:29 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 16:13:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 403 error after prune_arch
In-Reply-To: <0ce801ce4ffc$5caeb730$160c2590$@vic-fontaine.com>
References: <0ce801ce4ffc$5caeb730$160c2590$@vic-fontaine.com>
Message-ID: <51917399.9020409@msapiro.net>

On 05/13/2013 10:07 AM, Jan Krohn wrote:
> 
> I'm still new to permissions, ownership etc. but I have a problem.


Which is almost certainly permissions related. What does your web server
error log say?


> I installed and executed prune_arch
> 
> http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/prune_arch
> 
>  
> 
> Is this the up to date version?


If you got it any time after Sept 27, 2012, yes it is.


> However, after execution, I'm getting a 403 error on the archive pages.
> 
>  
> 
> I've already checked ownership of the public folders, and confirmed it's
> mailman:mailman as it should be (this was a problem before from migrated
> lists).


archives/public should contain only symlinks to corresponding things in
archives/private.

Have you tried running bin/check_perms?

Note that archives/private MUST be o+x or owned by the web server user.

Note that bin/prune_arch only creates a new
archives/private/LIST.mbox/LIST.mbox file and invokes bin/arch to
rebuild the HTML archive, but archives/private should be group mailman
and SETGID so everything should be created with group mailman, and be
world readable.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 14 05:06:19 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 20:06:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounced mail
In-Reply-To: <027401ce500c$1661c960$43255c20$@Havard.com>
References: <027401ce500c$1661c960$43255c20$@Havard.com>
Message-ID: <5191AA2B.9070500@msapiro.net>

On 05/13/2013 12:00 PM, Larry E. Havard wrote:
> We are having a problem with members mail getting bounced because the
> Hostmonster mailserver being used to send the mail get temporarily
> blacklisted.  
> 
> Is there any way that when a member has bounced mail that the system can
> temporally suspend them for 24 hours and then start up their mail again
> automatically


No, Mailman doesn't do that, but there may be a way that you can adjust
Bounce Processing settings to minimize your issues. For example, if you
set bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval to 1 and possibly increase
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings, users with delivery disabled by bounce
will get a warning daily with a ling to re-enable delivery.

Also, if the situation is that your host is blacklisted for a few days
and then OK for a while, you could set bounce_score_threshold higher
than the maximum number of days of blacklist and bounce_info_stale_after
lower than the number of days between blacklistings. Then no one will be
disabled during a single blacklist period and their bounce info will be
reset by the next time, but really bad addresses will continue to bounce
during 'good' periods and will eventually reach threshold.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From adamsca at gmail.com  Tue May 14 05:39:28 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 20:39:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <51916FEB.9020100@msapiro.net>
References: <CAA13W+8BRnZAcLWJdtHwa8-bWa+_FS3UDKJOWow1en0SPhfs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<518C21E9.2070408@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+8EqaViZSVxUDBVxEtxvOP76M+S07DsmocazPrBVxEbOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<51916FEB.9020100@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAA13W+8t-jdNPwdQuzg7DH1UJY2bSPcSDWTh-tB86PjYEyz2AQ@mail.gmail.com>

 Postfix sends the list message it to the remote server, which shows that
it was accepted by the Mailman server. The Mailman server has logs that
show that the message was directed to the command 'post' to list 'test7'.
However, nothing happens after that for 2-7 hours. Once it actually sends
to the list, there are smpt.log entries that show it going to 'x recipients'


The problem is not non-delivery but extremely slow delivery, anywhere from
2-8 hrs,even for a small list (2 subscribers) like the test7 list. The
Mailman server has over 600 lists and 250,000 subscribers. Some of the
lists have 40,000 subscribers. Additionally, there is quite a bit of spam
being sent to the list owner addresses and other attempts at posts by
spammers, many which are flagged and blocked. That is just to point out
that there is a lot going on with the Mailman server.

What would be some reasons for such long delays and why does it seem that
they seem to be "released" all at the same time. If they have been handed
off to Mailman,where are they held during this long delay?  Are there some
optimizations that could  be made in mm_cfg.py and/or with Postfix? I saw
some reference to some work that had already been done with this, but it
appears to be from 2008.

Thank for any suggestions that you might have.




On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 05/13/2013 09:32 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> > Below is a log of a message sent from me. The remote server handles mail
> > from my mail server. It is sent to the test7 mailing list address. From
> > there, Mailman/Postfix handles the dissemination of mail.
>
>
> Does Mailman send to your Postfix to relay to the remote server. If so,
> what are the Postfix log entries for the mail from Mailman through
> Postfix to the remote server?
>
> In any case, what is Mailman's smtp log entry for the post (the one for
> the message-id of the post)?
>
> The time stamp of the smtp log entry is the time that Mailman completed
> smtp delivery of the post to Postfix or the remote server as the case
> may be.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 14 06:03:55 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 21:03:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+8t-jdNPwdQuzg7DH1UJY2bSPcSDWTh-tB86PjYEyz2AQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA13W+8BRnZAcLWJdtHwa8-bWa+_FS3UDKJOWow1en0SPhfs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<518C21E9.2070408@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+8EqaViZSVxUDBVxEtxvOP76M+S07DsmocazPrBVxEbOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<51916FEB.9020100@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+8t-jdNPwdQuzg7DH1UJY2bSPcSDWTh-tB86PjYEyz2AQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5191B7AB.9010202@msapiro.net>

On 05/13/2013 08:39 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
>  Postfix sends the list message it to the remote server, which shows that
> it was accepted by the Mailman server.


We are not communicating here. The above makes no sense to me. I think
the sequence is:

 - List mail arrives at the local Postfix.
 - Postfix delivers to the local Mailman.
 - Mailman delivers - here I don't know if to the local Postfix for
relay to the remote server or directly to the remote server. The
mm_cfg.py setting for SMTPHOST determines this. The Default is localhost
meaning relay via the local Postfix.


> The Mailman server has logs that
> show that the message was directed to the command 'post' to list 'test7'.
> However, nothing happens after that for 2-7 hours. Once it actually sends
> to the list, there are smpt.log entries that show it going to 'x recipients'


OK, so here you are saying that the delay is definitely in Mailman. I.e.
Postfix delivers to the mailman mail wrapper which presumably
immediately queues the message in Mailman's in/ queue, and it's a long
time later that Mailman logs the delivery.

What is the processing time in the smtp log entry. Is it a few seconds
or less or hours?

I'm guessing that during this time IncomingRunner or OutgoingRunner or
both are asleep. Do you have a setting in mm_cfg.py for
QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME? The default in Defaults.py is (or should be)

QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME = seconds(1)

If you have set this to a few hours, it would explain the behavior you
are seeing. If not, when does the post get archived? Is that delayed too?

Also, messages in the in/ queue are processed by IncomingRunner and then
queued in the archive/ queue for ArchRunner and the out/ queue for
OutgoingRunner. You could look and see if messages move from the in/
queue quickly or not.

Note that if you have set QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME to say 4 hours, messages
can sit in the in/ queue for an average of 2 and up to 4 hours before
moving to the out/ queue where they may wait up to an additional 4 hours
before being sent.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mprobst at irt.de  Mon May 13 17:06:00 2013
From: mprobst at irt.de (Michael Probst)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 17:06:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] approval before changing mail address
Message-ID: <51910158.8070505@irt.de>

Dear all,

I hope this is the right mailing list to ask this kind of questions.

We run mailing lists with mailman for an organization with multiple
groups and
each group has its own mailing list(s). Our policy requires that
subscriptions are
approved by a moderator.

However, we got requests from people to change their email address
for all their subscriptions. We found that people can do so themselves
via the web interface, but we could not find out how to let a moderator
approve this change.

Required sequence:

* user changes his email address for all his subscriptions (works)
* owner of new email address confirms (works)
* moderator approves (not found)

Is this possible with mailman and if yes what version of mailman is
required?

If not is there any way to remove this option from the member page, so
they can still unsubscribe,
watch the archive, etc.?

Can a list adminstrator change the mail address of a user for all of his
subscriptions at once?

Thanks in advance,

Michael

-- 
=====================================================================
Michael Probst                INSTITUT FUER RUNDFUNKTECHNIK GmbH / PD

Tel: +49 89 / 32399 338       Floriansmuehlstrasse  60
Fax: +49 89 / 32399 415       80939 Munich
e-mail  : mprobst at irt.de      Germany
Internet: www.irt.de

Research and Development Institute of ARD, ZDF, DRadio, ORF and SRG/SSR
Managing Director: Dr. Klaus Illgner-Fehns registration court Munich
Commercial Register No. B 5191
=====================================================================


From tom.browder at gmail.com  Tue May 14 13:43:53 2013
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 06:43:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe/unsubscribe with CGI script?
In-Reply-To: <51916DF5.2060301@msapiro.net>
References: <CAFMGiz9en4_YDQkc7frsriyoN1y=qFw34TsQUozyAPfLjwrRYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<51916DF5.2060301@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz_NaFEabkLVkWfd=uDFXB=ibE-CHiT+9YrDcStyQAX5Vg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 05/13/2013 04:39 AM, Tom Browder wrote:
...
> I assume $oper is 'subscribe'. There is apparently some incompatibility
> between the way perl supplies the post data and the way Python's
> cgi.FieldStorage() retrieves it as it is either not seeing the 'email'
> name or its value is empty. Those are the only things that produce the
> "You must supply a valid email address." response.

Thanks, Mark, but Ivan caught my Perl errors.  With those corrections
all works well.  Mailman does what it is expected to do.

Best regards,

-Tom

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Tue May 14 13:41:50 2013
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 06:41:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe/unsubscribe with CGI script?
In-Reply-To: <5191D3D5.1030106@gmail.com>
References: <CAFMGiz9en4_YDQkc7frsriyoN1y=qFw34TsQUozyAPfLjwrRYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5191D3D5.1030106@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz_UBmr73FT9AdpSexExqWqiqD2+=mN0C_4HWwt2xts1Uw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:04 AM, Krylov Ivan <krylov.r00t at gmail.com> wrote:
> Tom Browder wrote:
>>
>>      my $response = $browser->post(
>>
>> "https://host.org/cgi-bin/mailman/$oper/$list",
>>                                   email    =>  $enc_email,
>>                                   fullname =>  $enc_name,
>>                                  );
>
>
> LWP::UserAgent documentation says on the ->post() method:
>>
>>            This method will use the POST() function from
>> "HTTP::Request::Common"
>
>>            to build the request.  See HTTP::Request::Common for a
>>            details on how to pass form content and
>>            other advanced features.
>
> The request form you needed is POST($url, {field => "value"}), otherwise you
> will create HTTP headers, not POST data.

I made two errors pointed out by Ivan: (1) I dumbly forgot to wrap the
hash args in curly braces and (2) I should NOT have encoded the field
values.

With those two corrections all works well!

Thanks very much, Ivan.

Best regards,

-Tom

From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Tue May 14 14:18:55 2013
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 08:18:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] approval before changing mail address
In-Reply-To: <51910158.8070505@irt.de>
References: <51910158.8070505@irt.de>
Message-ID: <51922BAF.2040301@Damon-Family.org>

On 5/13/13 11:06 AM, Michael Probst wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I hope this is the right mailing list to ask this kind of questions.
>
> We run mailing lists with mailman for an organization with multiple
> groups and
> each group has its own mailing list(s). Our policy requires that
> subscriptions are
> approved by a moderator.
>
> However, we got requests from people to change their email address
> for all their subscriptions. We found that people can do so themselves
> via the web interface, but we could not find out how to let a moderator
> approve this change.
>
> Required sequence:
>
> * user changes his email address for all his subscriptions (works)
> * owner of new email address confirms (works)
> * moderator approves (not found)
>
> Is this possible with mailman and if yes what version of mailman is
> required?
>
> If not is there any way to remove this option from the member page, so
> they can still unsubscribe,
> watch the archive, etc.?
>
> Can a list adminstrator change the mail address of a user for all of his
> subscriptions at once?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michael
>

As to a list administrator changing the mail address of a user for all
of his subscriptions, that isn't allowed as a list administrator can
only change things relating to "his" list, so the "all subscriptions"
option is blocked for people logging in with list administrator access.

As to approving change of address requests, are you sure this is really
needed? Normally subscription approval is used to allow the list to only
go to "approved" people, so when the subscription comes in, you approve
the PERSON to receive the list, if they then chose to receive the list
at a different address, that shouldn't be an issue.

-- 
Richard Damon


From krao at teslamotors.com  Tue May 14 15:23:29 2013
From: krao at teslamotors.com (Kamlesh Rao)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 13:23:29 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Root as the sender
In-Reply-To: <51922BAF.2040301@Damon-Family.org>
References: <51910158.8070505@irt.de>,<51922BAF.2040301@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <5gxcqdvjtl2poqkvsawgcuv5.1368537373672@email.android.com>


We want to be able to have root user send out emails to any distribution list..

Currently we have an instance of mailman were this works. I checked and noticed that root is not added to the membership list. So not sure were in the config you can set this to.

In the new instance of mailman that I set up, when I send out mail to distribution list I see these get queued but no mails are received by the members of the distribution list..

Any help is much appreciated..

Richard Damon <Richard at Damon-Family.org> wrote:
On 5/13/13 11:06 AM, Michael Probst wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I hope this is the right mailing list to ask this kind of questions.
>
> We run mailing lists with mailman for an organization with multiple
> groups and
> each group has its own mailing list(s). Our policy requires that
> subscriptions are
> approved by a moderator.
>
> However, we got requests from people to change their email address
> for all their subscriptions. We found that people can do so themselves
> via the web interface, but we could not find out how to let a moderator
> approve this change.
>
> Required sequence:
>
> * user changes his email address for all his subscriptions (works)
> * owner of new email address confirms (works)
> * moderator approves (not found)
>
> Is this possible with mailman and if yes what version of mailman is
> required?
>
> If not is there any way to remove this option from the member page, so
> they can still unsubscribe,
> watch the archive, etc.?
>
> Can a list adminstrator change the mail address of a user for all of his
> subscriptions at once?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michael
>

As to a list administrator changing the mail address of a user for all
of his subscriptions, that isn't allowed as a list administrator can
only change things relating to "his" list, so the "all subscriptions"
option is blocked for people logging in with list administrator access.

As to approving change of address requests, are you sure this is really
needed? Normally subscription approval is used to allow the list to only
go to "approved" people, so when the subscription comes in, you approve
the PERSON to receive the list, if they then chose to receive the list
at a different address, that shouldn't be an issue.

--
Richard Damon

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/krao%40teslamotors.com

From Jan at vic-fontaine.com  Tue May 14 16:49:47 2013
From: Jan at vic-fontaine.com (Jan Krohn)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 21:49:47 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 403 error after prune_arch
In-Reply-To: <51917399.9020409@msapiro.net>
References: <0ce801ce4ffc$5caeb730$160c2590$@vic-fontaine.com>
	<51917399.9020409@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <004801ce50b2$4dba2a50$e92e7ef0$@vic-fontaine.com>

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. Mai 2013 06:13
An: Jan Krohn
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] 403 error after prune_arch

On 05/13/2013 10:07 AM, Jan Krohn wrote:
>> I'm still new to permissions, ownership etc. but I have a problem.

> Which is almost certainly permissions related. What does your web server
error log say?

Not checked, issue solved (see below).

>> I installed and executed prune_arch
>> http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/prune_arch
>> Is this the up to date version?

> If you got it any time after Sept 27, 2012, yes it is.

I got it on Monday, so it's good...

>> However, after execution, I'm getting a 403 error on the archive pages.
>> I've already checked ownership of the public folders, and confirmed 
>> it's mailman:mailman as it should be (this was a problem before from 
>> migrated lists).

> archives/public should contain only symlinks to corresponding things in
archives/private.

That's the case.

> Have you tried running bin/check_perms?

Just tried:

Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
         This could allow other users on your system to read private
archives.
         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
         installation manual on how to fix this.
No problems found

> Note that archives/private MUST be o+x or owned by the web server user.

Checked, this is the case (drwxrws--x)

> Note that bin/prune_arch only creates a new
archives/private/LIST.mbox/LIST.mbox file and invokes bin/arch to rebuild
the HTML archive, but archives/private should be group mailman and SETGID so
everything should be created with group mailman, and be world readable.

That's it. Some directories archives/private/LIST were owned by
root.mailman. I changed to mailman.mailman, and the archives are back (and
pruned properly)!

Thanks for your help!

Jan


From adamsca at gmail.com  Tue May 14 17:26:29 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 08:26:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5191B7AB.9010202@msapiro.net>
References: <CAA13W+8BRnZAcLWJdtHwa8-bWa+_FS3UDKJOWow1en0SPhfs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<518C21E9.2070408@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+8EqaViZSVxUDBVxEtxvOP76M+S07DsmocazPrBVxEbOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<51916FEB.9020100@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+8t-jdNPwdQuzg7DH1UJY2bSPcSDWTh-tB86PjYEyz2AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5191B7AB.9010202@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAA13W+_88dsoLJGKnnSRtSjqn1PyqpCC8+s66qW6Lq=ECR0tbw@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for your reply.

QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME = seconds(1) in Defaults.py

Mesages are being archived almost immediately. There is nothing in the in/
queue.

There currently are about 954 files in the out/ queue and seemingly always
growing. Is that significant?

A message sent yesterday at 12:30 was received by Mailman within seconds.
It delivered at 3:30. The smtp.log for that message shows:

May 13 15:32:36 2013 (26531)
<0B03FE68E0E760478D413F045B39A028380323EA at OSLEXCHANGE.my.mail.server.local>
smtp to test7 for 2 recips, completed in 0.020 seconds


On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 05/13/2013 08:39 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> >  Postfix sends the list message it to the remote server, which shows that
> > it was accepted by the Mailman server.
>
>
> We are not communicating here. The above makes no sense to me. I think
> the sequence is:
>
>  - List mail arrives at the local Postfix.
>  - Postfix delivers to the local Mailman.
>  - Mailman delivers - here I don't know if to the local Postfix for
> relay to the remote server or directly to the remote server. The
> mm_cfg.py setting for SMTPHOST determines this. The Default is localhost
> meaning relay via the local Postfix.
>
>
> > The Mailman server has logs that
> > show that the message was directed to the command 'post' to list 'test7'.
> > However, nothing happens after that for 2-7 hours. Once it actually sends
> > to the list, there are smpt.log entries that show it going to 'x
> recipients'
>
>
> OK, so here you are saying that the delay is definitely in Mailman. I.e.
> Postfix delivers to the mailman mail wrapper which presumably
> immediately queues the message in Mailman's in/ queue, and it's a long
> time later that Mailman logs the delivery.
>
> What is the processing time in the smtp log entry. Is it a few seconds
> or less or hours?
>
> I'm guessing that during this time IncomingRunner or OutgoingRunner or
> both are asleep. Do you have a setting in mm_cfg.py for
> QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME? The default in Defaults.py is (or should be)
>
> QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME = seconds(1)
>
> If you have set this to a few hours, it would explain the behavior you
> are seeing. If not, when does the post get archived? Is that delayed too?
>
> Also, messages in the in/ queue are processed by IncomingRunner and then
> queued in the archive/ queue for ArchRunner and the out/ queue for
> OutgoingRunner. You could look and see if messages move from the in/
> queue quickly or not.
>
> Note that if you have set QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME to say 4 hours, messages
> can sit in the in/ queue for an average of 2 and up to 4 hours before
> moving to the out/ queue where they may wait up to an additional 4 hours
> before being sent.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mprobst at irt.de  Tue May 14 18:23:30 2013
From: mprobst at irt.de (Michael Probst)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 18:23:30 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9563.1368545192.3113.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.9563.1368545192.3113.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <51926502.7080501@irt.de>

Thanks for your reply.

The issue is that only employees of member companies shall be able to
join any of the mailing lists.

In the first step we approve only subscriptions with email accounts from
a member company. Someone with a subscription can then later on change
his mail address to one of another company that might not be a member
company of our organization. We would like to approve such changes or
disable this option.


Am 14.05.2013 17:26, schrieb mailman-users-request at python.org:
> On 5/13/13 11:06 AM, Michael Probst wrote:
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> > I hope this is the right mailing list to ask this kind of questions.
>> >
>> > We run mailing lists with mailman for an organization with multiple
>> > groups and
>> > each group has its own mailing list(s). Our policy requires that
>> > subscriptions are
>> > approved by a moderator.
>> >
>> > However, we got requests from people to change their email address
>> > for all their subscriptions. We found that people can do so themselves
>> > via the web interface, but we could not find out how to let a moderator
>> > approve this change.
>> >
>> > Required sequence:
>> >
>> > * user changes his email address for all his subscriptions (works)
>> > * owner of new email address confirms (works)
>> > * moderator approves (not found)
>> >
>> > Is this possible with mailman and if yes what version of mailman is
>> > required?
>> >
>> > If not is there any way to remove this option from the member page, so
>> > they can still unsubscribe,
>> > watch the archive, etc.?
>> >
>> > Can a list adminstrator change the mail address of a user for all of his
>> > subscriptions at once?
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance,
>> >
>> > Michael
>> >
> As to a list administrator changing the mail address of a user for all
> of his subscriptions, that isn't allowed as a list administrator can
> only change things relating to "his" list, so the "all subscriptions"
> option is blocked for people logging in with list administrator access.
> 
> As to approving change of address requests, are you sure this is really
> needed? Normally subscription approval is used to allow the list to only
> go to "approved" people, so when the subscription comes in, you approve
> the PERSON to receive the list, if they then chose to receive the list
> at a different address, that shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> -- Richard Damon


-- 
=====================================================================
Michael Probst                INSTITUT FUER RUNDFUNKTECHNIK GmbH / PD

Tel: +49 89 / 32399 338       Floriansmuehlstrasse  60
Fax: +49 89 / 32399 415       80939 Munich
e-mail  : mprobst at irt.de      Germany
Internet: www.irt.de

Research and Development Institute of ARD, ZDF, DRadio, ORF and SRG/SSR
Managing Director: Dr. Klaus Illgner-Fehns registration court Munich
Commercial Register No. B 5191
=====================================================================

From adamsca at gmail.com  Tue May 14 18:28:40 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 09:28:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+_88dsoLJGKnnSRtSjqn1PyqpCC8+s66qW6Lq=ECR0tbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA13W+8BRnZAcLWJdtHwa8-bWa+_FS3UDKJOWow1en0SPhfs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<518C21E9.2070408@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+8EqaViZSVxUDBVxEtxvOP76M+S07DsmocazPrBVxEbOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<51916FEB.9020100@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+8t-jdNPwdQuzg7DH1UJY2bSPcSDWTh-tB86PjYEyz2AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5191B7AB.9010202@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+_88dsoLJGKnnSRtSjqn1PyqpCC8+s66qW6Lq=ECR0tbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA13W+-SWHfxF8x6hAQW6CduJFFgLcq3otj5mEDn_67DC9rJZw@mail.gmail.com>

Mark, I was reading some previous posts about Mailman and qfiles. Late
yesterday, I found a couple of *.bak files in the out/ queue, so I moved
all the *.bak and *.pck files to another directory. I restarted Mailman.
Mail was not still not being delivered in a timely way.

Then, this morning, I read another post about dns lookups in Postfix main.cf.
A poster said that he modifed his smtpd_recipient_restrictions  and put
permit_mynetworks at the top. So, I followed this and restarted Postfix.

I immediately saw mail flowing and the out/q queue emptied and mail began
to come in. I'm not sure exactly why it had that affect.

So, I have a final question. Should I move the .pck and .bak (renamed to
.pck) files back to the out/ queue. If so, should I stop mailman before
doing this.

BTW - The posts that I read above involved you. so thanks for the
"indirect" assistance.




On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:26 AM, Christopher Adams <adamsca at gmail.com>wrote:

> Thank you for your reply.
>
> QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME = seconds(1) in Defaults.py
>
> Mesages are being archived almost immediately. There is nothing in the in/
> queue.
>
> There currently are about 954 files in the out/ queue and seemingly always
> growing. Is that significant?
>
> A message sent yesterday at 12:30 was received by Mailman within seconds.
> It delivered at 3:30. The smtp.log for that message shows:
>
> May 13 15:32:36 2013 (26531)
> <0B03FE68E0E760478D413F045B39A028380323EA at OSLEXCHANGE.my.mail.server.local>
> smtp to test7 for 2 recips, completed in 0.020 seconds
>
>
> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>> On 05/13/2013 08:39 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
>> >  Postfix sends the list message it to the remote server, which shows
>> that
>> > it was accepted by the Mailman server.
>>
>>
>> We are not communicating here. The above makes no sense to me. I think
>> the sequence is:
>>
>>  - List mail arrives at the local Postfix.
>>  - Postfix delivers to the local Mailman.
>>  - Mailman delivers - here I don't know if to the local Postfix for
>> relay to the remote server or directly to the remote server. The
>> mm_cfg.py setting for SMTPHOST determines this. The Default is localhost
>> meaning relay via the local Postfix.
>>
>>
>> > The Mailman server has logs that
>> > show that the message was directed to the command 'post' to list
>> 'test7'.
>> > However, nothing happens after that for 2-7 hours. Once it actually
>> sends
>> > to the list, there are smpt.log entries that show it going to 'x
>> recipients'
>>
>>
>> OK, so here you are saying that the delay is definitely in Mailman. I.e.
>> Postfix delivers to the mailman mail wrapper which presumably
>> immediately queues the message in Mailman's in/ queue, and it's a long
>> time later that Mailman logs the delivery.
>>
>> What is the processing time in the smtp log entry. Is it a few seconds
>> or less or hours?
>>
>> I'm guessing that during this time IncomingRunner or OutgoingRunner or
>> both are asleep. Do you have a setting in mm_cfg.py for
>> QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME? The default in Defaults.py is (or should be)
>>
>> QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME = seconds(1)
>>
>> If you have set this to a few hours, it would explain the behavior you
>> are seeing. If not, when does the post get archived? Is that delayed too?
>>
>> Also, messages in the in/ queue are processed by IncomingRunner and then
>> queued in the archive/ queue for ArchRunner and the out/ queue for
>> OutgoingRunner. You could look and see if messages move from the in/
>> queue quickly or not.
>>
>> Note that if you have set QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME to say 4 hours, messages
>> can sit in the in/ queue for an average of 2 and up to 4 hours before
>> moving to the out/ queue where they may wait up to an additional 4 hours
>> before being sent.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Christopher Adams
> adamsca at gmail.com
>



-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 14 18:31:21 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 09:31:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+_88dsoLJGKnnSRtSjqn1PyqpCC8+s66qW6Lq=ECR0tbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA13W+8BRnZAcLWJdtHwa8-bWa+_FS3UDKJOWow1en0SPhfs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<518C21E9.2070408@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+8EqaViZSVxUDBVxEtxvOP76M+S07DsmocazPrBVxEbOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<51916FEB.9020100@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+8t-jdNPwdQuzg7DH1UJY2bSPcSDWTh-tB86PjYEyz2AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5191B7AB.9010202@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+_88dsoLJGKnnSRtSjqn1PyqpCC8+s66qW6Lq=ECR0tbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <519266D9.5070809@msapiro.net>

On 05/14/2013 08:26 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> 
> There currently are about 954 files in the out/ queue and seemingly always
> growing. Is that significant?


Your out/ queue is hopelessly backlogged. I'm not sure why. See the post
at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2012-January/072778.html>.

I am guessing that Mailman is delivering directly to the remote server
(SMTPHOST = 'remote.server' in mm_cfg.py) and that the remote server is
not keeping up with peak rates causing the queue to become backlogged.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 14 18:43:39 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 09:43:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+-SWHfxF8x6hAQW6CduJFFgLcq3otj5mEDn_67DC9rJZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA13W+8BRnZAcLWJdtHwa8-bWa+_FS3UDKJOWow1en0SPhfs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<518C21E9.2070408@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+8EqaViZSVxUDBVxEtxvOP76M+S07DsmocazPrBVxEbOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<51916FEB.9020100@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+8t-jdNPwdQuzg7DH1UJY2bSPcSDWTh-tB86PjYEyz2AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5191B7AB.9010202@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+_88dsoLJGKnnSRtSjqn1PyqpCC8+s66qW6Lq=ECR0tbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAA13W+-SWHfxF8x6hAQW6CduJFFgLcq3otj5mEDn_67DC9rJZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <519269BB.2090501@msapiro.net>

On 05/14/2013 09:28 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> 
> Then, this morning, I read another post about dns lookups in Postfix main.cf.
> A poster said that he modifed his smtpd_recipient_restrictions  and put
> permit_mynetworks at the top. So, I followed this and restarted Postfix.
> 
> I immediately saw mail flowing and the out/q queue emptied and mail began
> to come in. I'm not sure exactly why it had that affect.


So, Mailman is delivering via the local Postfix and not directly to the
remote server.

Postfix was doing DNS lookups on the sending domain for all messages
which slowed it way down. You avoided this by the change you made.


> So, I have a final question. Should I move the .pck and .bak (renamed to
> .pck) files back to the out/ queue. If so, should I stop mailman before
> doing this.


You can move the .pck files back without stopping/starting Mailman.

If you move the .bak files without renaming them, they won't be
processed until you restart Mailman. If you rename them to .pck, they
will be processed along with the others without a restart.

BUT, the messages in the .bak files have been 'partially' processed and
possibly delivered to some recipients. You can examine the .bak files
with bin/dumpdb -p to see what they contain and decide if you want to
reprocess them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 14 21:42:31 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 12:42:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] approval before changing mail address
In-Reply-To: <51926502.7080501@irt.de>
References: <mailman.9563.1368545192.3113.mailman-users@python.org>
	<51926502.7080501@irt.de>
Message-ID: <519293A7.3060704@msapiro.net>

On 05/14/2013 09:23 AM, Michael Probst wrote:
> 
> In the first step we approve only subscriptions with email accounts from
> a member company. Someone with a subscription can then later on change
> his mail address to one of another company that might not be a member
> company of our organization. We would like to approve such changes or
> disable this option.


I think it would require significant code changes to apply
subscribe_policy to address changes.

You can easily make a site specific version of the options.html template
per the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9> with the address change
portion removed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From adamsca at gmail.com  Tue May 14 21:43:32 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 12:43:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <519269BB.2090501@msapiro.net>
References: <CAA13W+8BRnZAcLWJdtHwa8-bWa+_FS3UDKJOWow1en0SPhfs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<518C21E9.2070408@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+8EqaViZSVxUDBVxEtxvOP76M+S07DsmocazPrBVxEbOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<51916FEB.9020100@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+8t-jdNPwdQuzg7DH1UJY2bSPcSDWTh-tB86PjYEyz2AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5191B7AB.9010202@msapiro.net>
	<CAA13W+_88dsoLJGKnnSRtSjqn1PyqpCC8+s66qW6Lq=ECR0tbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAA13W+-SWHfxF8x6hAQW6CduJFFgLcq3otj5mEDn_67DC9rJZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<519269BB.2090501@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAA13W+8PTLJEyAKpa4S7Oue3eu+pqR3_JNgeo9qfR-nYttOM9g@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, Mark.

SMTPHOST = 'localhost' in Defaults.py

The out/ queue is now clear and processing mail. I'll see how it goes.
Thanks, again.

On another note, what are thoughts about utilizing SpamAssasin or other
spam software with Postfix and Mailman. It seems that a lot of the traffic
that is going through the Mailman server is spam, quite a bit which is
flagged and blocked by using RBLS in  postfix smptd_recipient_restrictions.
I am seeing upwards to 8,000 messages blocked every day. Is there a more
efficient way to manage this without making it a full time job? :>)


On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 05/14/2013 09:28 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> >
> > Then, this morning, I read another post about dns lookups in Postfix
> main.cf.
> > A poster said that he modifed his smtpd_recipient_restrictions  and put
> > permit_mynetworks at the top. So, I followed this and restarted Postfix.
> >
> > I immediately saw mail flowing and the out/q queue emptied and mail began
> > to come in. I'm not sure exactly why it had that affect.
>
>
> So, Mailman is delivering via the local Postfix and not directly to the
> remote server.
>
> Postfix was doing DNS lookups on the sending domain for all messages
> which slowed it way down. You avoided this by the change you made.
>
>
> > So, I have a final question. Should I move the .pck and .bak (renamed to
> > .pck) files back to the out/ queue. If so, should I stop mailman before
> > doing this.
>
>
> You can move the .pck files back without stopping/starting Mailman.
>
> If you move the .bak files without renaming them, they won't be
> processed until you restart Mailman. If you rename them to .pck, they
> will be processed along with the others without a restart.
>
> BUT, the messages in the .bak files have been 'partially' processed and
> possibly delivered to some recipients. You can examine the .bak files
> with bin/dumpdb -p to see what they contain and decide if you want to
> reprocess them.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 15 01:32:41 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 16:32:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Root as the sender
In-Reply-To: <5gxcqdvjtl2poqkvsawgcuv5.1368537373672@email.android.com>
References: <51910158.8070505@irt.de>, <51922BAF.2040301@Damon-Family.org>
	<5gxcqdvjtl2poqkvsawgcuv5.1368537373672@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <5192C999.1010409@msapiro.net>

On 05/14/2013 06:23 AM, Kamlesh Rao wrote:
> 
> We want to be able to have root user send out emails to any distribution list..
> 
> Currently we have an instance of mailman were this works. I checked and noticed that root is not added to the membership list. So not sure were in the config you can set this to.


What exactly works? Local mail originating from root or any mail that
happens to spoof root at example.com in the From: header.

If the latter, just add root at example.com to Privacy options... -> Sender
filters -> accept_these_nonmembers.

If the former, you must have some local mods to support this.


Note: Please don't hijack existing threads by replying to an unrelated
post. If starting a new topic, post an original message to
mailman-users at python.org, don't reply to another message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jedbrown at mcs.anl.gov  Tue May 14 19:17:39 2013
From: jedbrown at mcs.anl.gov (Jed Brown)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 12:17:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Search by Message-ID,
	preserving Cc for direct recipients
Message-ID: <87bo8dlbv0.fsf@mcs.anl.gov>

I would like to be able to search the archives of a mailman list using
the Message-ID, ideally using a stable URL like

  http://mid.gmane.org/${message_id}
  http://mail-archive.com/search?l=mid&q=${message_id}

but preferably on our own host as we're not currently mirrored and would
rather link to our own archives when referencing on old discussion on
the list.  Our current archives (e.g., [1]) are searched using htdig,
but it doesn't seem to support query by Message-ID.  Your wiki page [2]
also suggests Swish, MnoGoSearch, and Namazu.  Can any of these search
by Message-ID, or is our best bet to get indexed by mail-archive.com and
direct people there?

Second question: Why are direct recipients dropped from the Cc header of
the copy sent via the list?  This seems partially addressed in the
archives [3], but I think it's important for high-volume lists when
people filter conversations based on whether they are a direct
recipient.  Is there an option somewhere to keep Cc headers intact
without changing other behavior?

[1] http://lists.mcs.anl.gov/pipermail/petsc-dev/
[2] http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/How+do+I+make+the+archives+searchable
[3] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2006-May/018777.html

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Wed May 15 16:48:53 2013
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 09:48:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts by non-subscribers not getting automatically
	discarded
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz8zcnVgWHsoDz=CkiWuDxciQqswD2_w0caG0qoESHdpvQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have two lists  which have started being spammed by non-members and
I have tried to set it for automatic discarding with no notification
to the admin.

However, I still get notices that my attention is required.  When I
look at the list I see, for each problem post:

+ the post is being deferred due to improper content

+ I get the options to discard or ban them forever

I do not have content filtering turned on.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,

-Tom

From davejones70 at gmail.com  Wed May 15 17:45:20 2013
From: davejones70 at gmail.com (Dave Jones)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 10:45:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail RFC 2822
Message-ID: <CAJmnxLUAWbjp61u2Hs228iQ1S2BcoUgkF1nqWBO4W71WnZs2mw@mail.gmail.com>

I am not sure the best place to solve this problem but I will start with
this list since the problem is impacting a heavy traffic mailman listserv.

Google recently started enforcing only a single From: header in RFC2822
causing bounces to members of a very heavy traffic list.  A single person
with bad mail client configuration is getting all of the Google Apps
recipients removed from a list frequently.

Postfix log entry:

May  15  8:49:57 list01 postfix/smtp[27955]: 35C865058D2: to=<
jsmith at example.com>, relay=aspmx.l.google.com[74.125.137.27]:25, delay=3.1,
delays=0.07/2.3/0.03/0.61, dsn=5.7.1, status=bounced (host
aspmx.l.google.com[74.125.137.27] said: 550-5.7.1 [126.24.19.8      11] Our
system has detected that this message is not 550-5.7.1 RFC 2822 compliant.
To reduce the amount of spam sent to Gmail, this 550-5.7.1 message has been
blocked. Please review 550 5.7.1 RFC 2822 specifications for more
information. f47si18577759yhf.187 - gsmtp (in reply to end of DATA command))

http://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/42771/emails-sent-to-gmail-domain-suddenly-not-rfc-2822-compliant-possible-to-bypass

My question is can Mailman strip out the duplicate From: headers leaving
the first one?  I have searched for a Postfix solution with no luck.  I
guess I could work up a procmail solution for all inbound mail but really
didn't want to add that layer of complexity if it could be handled by
Postfix or Mailman.

Thanks,
Dave

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 15 19:47:41 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 10:47:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts by non-subscribers not getting
 automatically discarded
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz8zcnVgWHsoDz=CkiWuDxciQqswD2_w0caG0qoESHdpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFMGiz8zcnVgWHsoDz=CkiWuDxciQqswD2_w0caG0qoESHdpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5193CA3D.7060808@msapiro.net>

On 05/15/2013 07:48 AM, Tom Browder wrote:

> 
> However, I still get notices that my attention is required.  When I
> look at the list I see, for each problem post:
> 
> + the post is being deferred due to improper content


The phrase "improper content" does not appear in any standard GNU
Mailmamn hold reason. Either you are not reporting the actual reason or
you have a custom or modified handler in the pipeline ahead of Moderate
or both. Moderate is the handler that will apply
generic_nonmember_action to a non-member post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 15 20:21:35 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 11:21:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail RFC 2822
In-Reply-To: <CAJmnxLUAWbjp61u2Hs228iQ1S2BcoUgkF1nqWBO4W71WnZs2mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJmnxLUAWbjp61u2Hs228iQ1S2BcoUgkF1nqWBO4W71WnZs2mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5193D22F.7010402@msapiro.net>

On 05/15/2013 08:45 AM, Dave Jones wrote:
> 
> My question is can Mailman strip out the duplicate From: headers leaving
> the first one?  I have searched for a Postfix solution with no luck.  I
> guess I could work up a procmail solution for all inbound mail but really
> didn't want to add that layer of complexity if it could be handled by
> Postfix or Mailman.


Mailman can do this, but it requires a custom handler
<http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>.

Alternatively, you could use header_filter_rules with a regexp like
"^From:(.|\n)*^From:" to detect multiple From: headers and reject the post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Wed May 15 21:08:06 2013
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 14:08:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts by non-subscribers not getting
 automatically discarded
In-Reply-To: <5193CA3D.7060808@msapiro.net>
References: <CAFMGiz8zcnVgWHsoDz=CkiWuDxciQqswD2_w0caG0qoESHdpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5193CA3D.7060808@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz-o1icQbj0FOBA+7uTJ9hADYFT0WY+n2v0u+0hL6eHZVg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 05/15/2013 07:48 AM, Tom Browder wrote:
...
>> + the post is being deferred due to improper content
> The phrase "improper content" does not appear in any standard GNU
> Mailmamn hold reason. Either you are not reporting the actual reason or
> you have a custom or modified handler in the pipeline ahead of Moderate

I'm sorry, you're correct, Mark.  I forgot you told me earlier how to
write such a handler which I implemented successfully.  You said:

> You need to implement a
> custom handler <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>. That FAQ contains a
> skeleton example MyHandler.py which does what you ask and more.

So I guess the real question is "how do I postpone that handler until
AFTER the check for whether the poster is a member?"

After reviewing the original implementation instructions I think I can
fix the problem.

Consider the problem solved unless I run into problems.

Thanks so much!

Best regards,

-Tom

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 15 21:33:27 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 12:33:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Search by Message-ID,
 preserving Cc for direct recipients
In-Reply-To: <87bo8dlbv0.fsf@mcs.anl.gov>
References: <87bo8dlbv0.fsf@mcs.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <5193E307.5050701@msapiro.net>

On 05/14/2013 10:17 AM, Jed Brown wrote:
> I would like to be able to search the archives of a mailman list using
> the Message-ID, ideally using a stable URL like
> 
>   http://mid.gmane.org/${message_id}
>   http://mail-archive.com/search?l=mid&q=${message_id}
> 
> but preferably on our own host as we're not currently mirrored and would
> rather link to our own archives when referencing on old discussion on
> the list.  Our current archives (e.g., [1]) are searched using htdig,
> but it doesn't seem to support query by Message-ID.  Your wiki page [2]
> also suggests Swish, MnoGoSearch, and Namazu.  Can any of these search
> by Message-ID, or is our best bet to get indexed by mail-archive.com and
> direct people there?


The Message-ID of the post is in the HTML page containing the post, but
it is only in an In-Reply-To= fragment of a mailto: URL that isn't
indexed in htdig. Also, it's URL encoded so <, > and @ are %3C, %3E and
%40 respectively. The actual Message-ID: headers are in the periodic
*.txt files.

This leads to a few possibilities such as teaching htdig to index the
.txt files (may be tricky, I just spent a couple of minutes looking at
this and didn't see it), changing the noindex start and end tags in the
list's archives/private/LIST/htdig/LIST.conf file so that everything in
the HTML files including the URL encoded Message-ID is indexed or
writing a separate CGI search script to search the .txt files for the
Message-ID.

Or, use mail-archive.com which is probably simplest.


> Second question: Why are direct recipients dropped from the Cc header of
> the copy sent via the list?  This seems partially addressed in the
> archives [3], but I think it's important for high-volume lists when
> people filter conversations based on whether they are a direct
> recipient.  Is there an option somewhere to keep Cc headers intact
> without changing other behavior?
> 
> [1] http://lists.mcs.anl.gov/pipermail/petsc-dev/
> [2] http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/How+do+I+make+the+archives+searchable
> [3] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2006-May/018777.html


I've learned a lot in the last 7 years ;)

The reason is to keep the Cc: list from growing excessively long in long
threads involving many people (see the subsequent post(s) in that thread).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jedbrown at mcs.anl.gov  Wed May 15 21:47:10 2013
From: jedbrown at mcs.anl.gov (Jed Brown)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 14:47:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Search by Message-ID,
	preserving Cc for direct recipients
In-Reply-To: <5193E307.5050701@msapiro.net>
References: <87bo8dlbv0.fsf@mcs.anl.gov> <5193E307.5050701@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <877gj0yqip.fsf@mcs.anl.gov>

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> writes:

> The Message-ID of the post is in the HTML page containing the post, but
> it is only in an In-Reply-To= fragment of a mailto: URL that isn't
> indexed in htdig. Also, it's URL encoded so <, > and @ are %3C, %3E and
> %40 respectively. The actual Message-ID: headers are in the periodic
> *.txt files.
>
> This leads to a few possibilities such as teaching htdig to index the
> .txt files (may be tricky, I just spent a couple of minutes looking at
> this and didn't see it), changing the noindex start and end tags in the
> list's archives/private/LIST/htdig/LIST.conf file so that everything in
> the HTML files including the URL encoded Message-ID is indexed or
> writing a separate CGI search script to search the .txt files for the
> Message-ID.
>
> Or, use mail-archive.com which is probably simplest.

Okay, thanks.  I'll talk with the others here and decide what to do.

> I've learned a lot in the last 7 years ;)
>
> The reason is to keep the Cc: list from growing excessively long in long
> threads involving many people (see the subsequent post(s) in that thread).

Yeah, I saw that, but I don't care how long the Cc list gets.  I would
rather allow people to filter aggressively and not worry about missing
posts that may be relevant to them.  It's common on other lists
(evidently not those managed by mailman, vger.kernel.org is a
high-profile example) to by convention, always Cc everyone that is
likely to be interested.  Asking recipients to write rules in terms of
thread ancestry isn't sufficient either: when we later do more work that
is somehow related, we might start a new thread and Cc everyone from
prior threads that were related.  If the list chronically drops Cc, it
can be hard to figure out everyone that should be Cc'd in a new topic.

Anyway, can I interpret your response as being that mailman always drops
Cc and there is no configuration option?

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 15 22:24:31 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 13:24:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Search by Message-ID,
 preserving Cc for direct recipients
In-Reply-To: <877gj0yqip.fsf@mcs.anl.gov>
References: <87bo8dlbv0.fsf@mcs.anl.gov> <5193E307.5050701@msapiro.net>
	<877gj0yqip.fsf@mcs.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <5193EEFF.5070308@msapiro.net>

On 05/15/2013 12:47 PM, Jed Brown wrote:
> 
> Anyway, can I interpret your response as being that mailman always drops
> Cc and there is no configuration option?


I guess that depends on what you call a configuration option.

You could put this in mm_cfg.py

GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('AvoidDuplicates')

That would just remove the Handler so every list member that is a direct
recipient would receive both the list and the direct copy regardless of
her avoid duplicates setting, or you could apply the attached patch to
Mailman/Handlers/AvoidDuplicates.py, or you could patch the module but
name the patched module say Mailman/Handlers/MyAvoidDuplicates.py and put

GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('AvoidDuplicates'),
'MyAvoidDuplicates')
GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('AvoidDuplicates')

im mm_cfg.py. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>. Note: the
first line is wrapped but it doesn't matter because of Python's implies
continuation inside parens. Also note that this latter method is
preferable to simple patching AvoidDuplicates.py for reasons mentioned
in the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
-------------- next part --------------
--- Mailman/Handlers/AvoidDuplicates.py	2008-11-14 10:54:42.000000000 -0800
+++ Mailman/Handlers/AvoidDuplicates.patched	2013-05-15 13:05:58.477617000 -0700
@@ -85,8 +85,8 @@
             if send_duplicate:
                 msgdata.setdefault('add-dup-header', {})[r] = True
                 newrecips.append(r)
-            elif ccaddrs.has_key(r.lower()):
-                del ccaddrs[r.lower()]
+#           elif ccaddrs.has_key(r.lower()):
+#               del ccaddrs[r.lower()]
         else:
             # Otherwise, this is the first time they've been in the recips
             # list.  Add them to the newrecips list and flag them as having

From jedbrown at mcs.anl.gov  Wed May 15 22:36:18 2013
From: jedbrown at mcs.anl.gov (Jed Brown)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 15:36:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Search by Message-ID,
	preserving Cc for direct recipients
In-Reply-To: <5193EEFF.5070308@msapiro.net>
References: <87bo8dlbv0.fsf@mcs.anl.gov> <5193E307.5050701@msapiro.net>
	<877gj0yqip.fsf@mcs.anl.gov> <5193EEFF.5070308@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <871u98yo8t.fsf@mcs.anl.gov>

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> writes:

> On 05/15/2013 12:47 PM, Jed Brown wrote:
>> 
>> Anyway, can I interpret your response as being that mailman always drops
>> Cc and there is no configuration option?
>
>
> I guess that depends on what you call a configuration option.
>
> You could put this in mm_cfg.py
>
> GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('AvoidDuplicates')
>
> That would just remove the Handler so every list member that is a direct
> recipient would receive both the list and the direct copy regardless of
> her avoid duplicates setting, 

That's a side-effect that we don't want.

> or you could apply the attached patch to
> Mailman/Handlers/AvoidDuplicates.py, or you could patch the module but
> name the patched module say Mailman/Handlers/MyAvoidDuplicates.py and
> put
>
> GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('AvoidDuplicates'),
> 'MyAvoidDuplicates')
> GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('AvoidDuplicates')
>
> im mm_cfg.py. 

This looks reasonable.

I think this is sufficiently useful to justify supporting without
patching, but this patch isn't hard to carry.  Thanks for your detailed
answer.

From guest2 at sgeinc.com  Thu May 16 02:02:16 2013
From: guest2 at sgeinc.com (Richard Shetron)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 20:02:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domain not found problems
In-Reply-To: <512640F5.5060809@msapiro.net>
References: <c094ea16dde88b4e1b6fe6f46c7fc9a3@scss.tcd.ie>
	<51252F87.7040406@msapiro.net>
	<ea6a0a5db8c631a89650548372a18081@scss.tcd.ie>
	<512640F5.5060809@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <51942208.5080204@sgeinc.com>

I'm having problems with DOMAIN not found errors.  Is there anyway to 
edit/remove them from the qfiles/out .pck files?  They don't seem to be 
getting purged by mailman and hang around way too long.

I'm using postfix and mailman 2.1.12 under ubuntu 8.04.

I found item 4.20 in the FAQ, but I'm not sure if it would work and 
still working on learning postfix as my normal admin is ill.  I'd only 
want it to work for mailman and not for other users regarding this problem.

I'm disabled due to vision problems so I did look through the archives 
until my eyes went buggy.

Thanks

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 16 05:48:33 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 20:48:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domain not found problems
In-Reply-To: <51942208.5080204@sgeinc.com>
References: <c094ea16dde88b4e1b6fe6f46c7fc9a3@scss.tcd.ie>
	<51252F87.7040406@msapiro.net>
	<ea6a0a5db8c631a89650548372a18081@scss.tcd.ie>
	<512640F5.5060809@msapiro.net> <51942208.5080204@sgeinc.com>
Message-ID: <51945711.1090909@msapiro.net>

On 05/15/2013 05:02 PM, Richard Shetron wrote:
> I'm having problems with DOMAIN not found errors.  Is there anyway to
> edit/remove them from the qfiles/out .pck files?  They don't seem to be
> getting purged by mailman and hang around way too long.


If the MTA (Postfix) is returning a 4xx status for the domain not found,
Mailman will move the queue entry to the retry queue and it will be
retried (moved back to the out queue) every DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT seconds
(default 1 hour) until it is DELIVERY_RETRY_PERIOD (default 5 days) old
at which time the remaining undelivered recipients will be treated as a
bounce.

If that is too long to wait, you can shorten the time by setting

DELIVERY_RETRY_PERIOD = days(1)

or maybe

DELIVERY_RETRY_PERIOD = hours(12)

or whatever in mm_cfg.py, or since the deliverable addresses should have
been delivered, simply remove the .pck file from the queue.

To be more selective about which recipients to remove, see
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/remove_recips>



> I'm using postfix and mailman 2.1.12 under ubuntu 8.04.
> 
> I found item 4.20 in the FAQ, but I'm not sure if it would work and
> still working on learning postfix as my normal admin is ill.  I'd only
> want it to work for mailman and not for other users regarding this problem.


Then this is not what you want as it would affect all mail. Further, it
just moves the problem to Postfix which probably keeps retrying at
intervals until its expiration time elapses.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Jan.Lausch at gmx.de  Thu May 16 10:48:31 2013
From: Jan.Lausch at gmx.de (Jan Lausch)
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 10:48:31 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails without MIME delimiter break when sent
	through mailman
Message-ID: <trinity-c4d86e93-754b-4b40-b0cf-a007a0580dc5-1368694111730@3capp-gmx-bs23>

Dear all,

I've got a strange problem that I'd ask for help with. I tried to word it as easy I could.

Abstract:
Some MUAs send picture-attachments not seperated by MIME-delimiters, but by "begin" and "end". Mailman adding the list footer with a MIME-delimiter breaks these mails.


Detailed description:?
Since migrating a list to a new server (mailman 2.1.12), mails with attachments (pictures) coming from one of the subscribers come with the picture not as picture but as plaintext within the mail. However the same mail, sent directly (not over list) looks fine. It seems the extra MIME element (list footer) added by mailman, breaks the MIME set. As I said: with the old server (older mailman) this did not happen.


Let's look at the details:
?
Example what a broken mail looks like:
------------
This is the body of the email
blablabla
begin 666 examplepicture.jpg
M_]C_X `02D9)1@`!`0$`2 !(``#_X0_^17AI9@``34T`*@````@`"@$/``(`
M```&````A@$0``(````)````C $2``,````!``$```$:``4````!````E@$;
M``4````!````G@$H``,````!``(```$Q``(````$-BXQ``$R``(````4````
...
--------------

Facts:
- X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0
- Other versions of Outlook / other MUAs work fine
- Before the migration (older mailman) all was working fine
- sending the same mail directly (not over mailman) will result in a decently visible mail
- there are interesting differences in the MIME-declarations

?
Let's try to figure this out and compare an email sent from another MUA to a broken one:
?
HEADER - WORKING MAIL OVER LIST
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_04C6_01CE4BF9.45807730"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157

HEADER - BROKEN MAIL OVER LIST
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1490256753484786707=="

------------------------------------------

BODY - WORKING MAIL OVER LIST
Envelope-To: XXXXX
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_04C6_01CE4BF9.45807730
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

BODY TEXT HERE   XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

------=_NextPart_000_04C6_01CE4BF9.45807730
Content-Type: image/jpeg;
	name="DSC_0138 1024-50.jpg"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="DSC_0138 1024-50.jpg"

/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEASABIAAD/2wBDABALDA4MChAODQ4SERATGCgaGBYWGDEjJR0oOjM9PDkz

--------------------------------------------
?
BODY - BROKEN MAIL OVER LIST
Envelope-To: XXX
--===============1490256753484786707==
Content-Language: de

BODY TEXT HERE  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

begin 666 DSC_0138 1024-50.jpg
M_]C_X `02D9)1@

?END OF WORKING MAIL
PICTURE DATA
------=_NextPart_000_04C6_01CE4BF9.45807730
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
XXX mailing list
XXX at XXX.dehttp://lists.XXX.de/mailman/listinfo/XXX[https://3c.gmx.net/mail/client/dereferrer?redirectUrl=http%3A%2F%2Flists.XXX.de%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2FXXX&selection=tfol11c55a91759e2e2e]
------=_NextPart_000_04C6_01CE4BF9.45807730--


----------------------------------------

This is how the plaintext of a broken email ends:

[PICTURE DATA]
end
--===============1490256753484786707==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
XXX mailing list
XXX at XXX.dehttp://lists.XXX.de/mailman/listinfo/XXX[https://3c.gmx.net/mail/client/dereferrer?redirectUrl=http%3A%2F%2Flists.XXX.de%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2FXXX&selection=tfol11c55a91759e2e2e]
--===============1490256753484786707==--

?
?
COMMENT

Obviously the jpeg isn't seperated by the delimiter here even though the delimiter is introduced in the header but instead the picture only has "begin" and "end".
I'm a bit confused: is "begin" and "end" a replacement for a MIME-delimiter?

Is that a correct MIME-set? But still this malformatted mail does work if sent directly to recipient (not via mailman) and still does NOT have the delimiter then. It only breaks when sent via mailman.
Obviously things stop working when mailman adds the delimiter consisting the msg_footer.
?
Does anyone have an idea on what to do?
?
Can I perhaps prevent mailman adding a footer if I leave "msg_footer" empty?
Is it still added (empty) or not at all?
?
Thanks for your help and thoughts!
?
Jan

From brennan at columbia.edu  Thu May 16 19:17:08 2013
From: brennan at columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 13:17:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails without MIME delimiter break when sent
 through mailman
In-Reply-To: <trinity-c4d86e93-754b-4b40-b0cf-a007a0580dc5-1368694111730@3capp-gmx-bs23>
References: <trinity-c4d86e93-754b-4b40-b0cf-a007a0580dc5-1368694111730@3capp-gmx-bs23>
Message-ID: <B7367B6CEC27C89FBC6EA5E9@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>



--On May 16, 2013 10:48:31 +0200 Jan Lausch <Jan.Lausch at gmx.de> wrote:

> Some MUAs send picture-attachments not seperated by MIME-delimiters, but
> by "begin" and "end".

That's an ancient pre-MIME encoding called uuencode.  I am amazed that any 
modern software would create it.

Joseph Brennan
Columbia University Information Technology



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 16 19:19:16 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 10:19:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails without MIME delimiter break when sent
 through mailman
In-Reply-To: <trinity-c4d86e93-754b-4b40-b0cf-a007a0580dc5-1368694111730@3capp-gmx-bs23>
References: <trinity-c4d86e93-754b-4b40-b0cf-a007a0580dc5-1368694111730@3capp-gmx-bs23>
Message-ID: <51951514.4050208@msapiro.net>

On 05/16/2013 01:48 AM, Jan Lausch wrote:
> 
> Abstract:
> Some MUAs send picture-attachments not seperated by MIME-delimiters, but by "begin" and "end". Mailman adding the list footer with a MIME-delimiter breaks these mails.


This is a pre-MIME uuencoded attachment. Mailman does not understand
that the uuencoded data is an "attachment". To Mailman, it is just part
of the plain text message body.

However, I don't understand why adding msg_footer to the body would
"break" the mail. Mailman should not be changing anything in the body
between the begin and end delimiters so the uuencoded data chould be intact.

[...]
> Obviously the jpeg isn't seperated by the delimiter here even though the delimiter is introduced in the header but instead the picture only has "begin" and "end".
> I'm a bit confused: is "begin" and "end" a replacement for a MIME-delimiter?


No. It is an obsolete method of adding a uuencoded file to an email
message and predates MIME.


> Is that a correct MIME-set? But still this malformatted mail does work if sent directly to recipient (not via mailman) and still does NOT have the delimiter then. It only breaks when sent via mailman.
> Obviously things stop working when mailman adds the delimiter consisting the msg_footer.


Which is the part I don't understand. Mailman's msg_footer comes after
the "end" of the uuencoded data, so what's the problem?


> Does anyone have an idea on what to do?


Tell your user to upgrade to a MIME compliant MUA.


> Can I perhaps prevent mailman adding a footer if I leave "msg_footer" empty?
> Is it still added (empty) or not at all?


Yes, msg_footer can be empty and Mailman won't add anything.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri May 17 03:46:19 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 10:46:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails without MIME delimiter break when sent
 through mailman
In-Reply-To: <51951514.4050208@msapiro.net>
References: <trinity-c4d86e93-754b-4b40-b0cf-a007a0580dc5-1368694111730@3capp-gmx-bs23>
	<51951514.4050208@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <87bo8acr9w.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > On 05/16/2013 01:48 AM, Jan Lausch wrote:

 > > Is that a correct MIME-set?

As Mark says, it's conformant to MIME in that a MIME conforming MUA is
perfectly happy to process that encoded file as part of the message
body's text, completely oblivious to the fact that it's really an
image.

It's incorrect in that it doesn't do what the users expect.

 > > But still this malformatted mail does work if sent directly to
 > > recipient (not via mailman) and still does NOT have the delimiter
 > > then. It only breaks when sent via mailman.  Obviously things
 > > stop working when mailman adds the delimiter consisting the
 > > msg_footer.
 > 
 > Which is the part I don't understand. Mailman's msg_footer comes after
 > the "end" of the uuencoded data, so what's the problem?

I would guess that some recipient MUA readded uuencode support only as
a bug fix without really thinking about what they were doing, and it's
only supported at the end of a message in the MIME trailer.

 > > Does anyone have an idea on what to do?
 > 
 > Tell your user to upgrade to a MIME compliant MUA.

If the MUA *sending* uuencoded JPEGs is really a Microsoft product, I
guess there is a switch in the user preferences that allows sending
files as "MIME" bodies rather than with "uuencode".  Ask the user to
flip the switch; they're not doing anybody any favors by using
uuencode nowadays.

 > > Can I perhaps prevent mailman adding a footer if I leave
 > > "msg_footer" empty?  Is it still added (empty) or not at all?
 > 
 > Yes, msg_footer can be empty and Mailman won't add anything.

N.B. IIRC, it has to be *empty*, not blank.  Make sure there's no
remnant of whitespace there, either.

From Jan.Lausch at gmx.de  Fri May 17 11:25:11 2013
From: Jan.Lausch at gmx.de (Jan Lausch)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 11:25:11 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails without MIME delimiter break when sent
 through mailman
In-Reply-To: <87bo8acr9w.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <trinity-c4d86e93-754b-4b40-b0cf-a007a0580dc5-1368694111730@3capp-gmx-bs23>
	<51951514.4050208@msapiro.net>,
	<87bo8acr9w.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <trinity-d3d4fc01-a465-40a4-af25-854d0519712a-1368782711498@3capp-gmx-bs02>

Hi all,

thanks for your help, it is much appreciated.

Mark wrote:
> This is a pre-MIME uuencoded attachment.

Wow - ancient indeed. Must have been around the time i played text-based adventures in my local mailbox here. Whoops, memories coming up :-)


> However, I don't understand why adding msg_footer to the body would
> "break" the mail. Mailman should not be changing anything in the body
> between the begin and end delimiters so the uuencoded data chould be intact.


And here Stephen is completely correct in assuming:

> I would guess that some recipient MUA readded uuencode support only as
> a bug fix without really thinking about what they were doing, and it's
> only supported at the end of a message in the MIME trailer.


Mailman doesn't change anything in the body as such, however I get reports from multiple users that their MUAs do not show the picture as an attachment if there is a MIME object behind.
At least the following MUAs seem to be affected:
- Thunderbird 17.0.4
- Outlook 11
- Outlook 14

Outlook 14 (= MS Office 2010, if I remember correctly) is also the one producing the uuencoding.
Google revealed that this seems to be a known issue and does indeed happen with attachments to plaintext-mails if the respective switch in outlook is set.

So I will have that user correct his setting and all should be fine then.

The fact that this did not happen before migrating to the current mailman version could (in this light) be due to a possible re-installation or user clicking around in outlook stupidly.

That should solve my problem, thanks very much for your help and have a great weekend.

Jan

P.S.:

>> Yes, msg_footer can be empty and Mailman won't add anything.
> N.B. IIRC, it has to be *empty*, not blank.  Make sure there's no
> remnant of whitespace there, either.

Of course :-)

From bsfinkel at att.net  Fri May 17 16:24:46 2013
From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S. Finkel)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 09:24:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail RFC 2822
In-Reply-To: <CAJmnxLUAWbjp61u2Hs228iQ1S2BcoUgkF1nqWBO4W71WnZs2mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJmnxLUAWbjp61u2Hs228iQ1S2BcoUgkF1nqWBO4W71WnZs2mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51963DAE.6080708@att.net>

On 5/15/2013 10:45 AM, Dave Jones wrote, in part:
> I am not sure the best place to solve this problem but I will start with
> this list since the problem is impacting a heavy traffic mailman listserv.

Since Mark did not respond to this, I will.  Mailman is not listserv.
"Listserv" is a registered trademark of L-soft, and is one of a
number of Mailing List Management software packages available.
Mailman is another MLM software package.

(I first met the founder of L-soft when he was still a student in
Paris.)
--Barry Finkel

From mneedham at hdfgroup.org  Thu May 16 21:48:01 2013
From: mneedham at hdfgroup.org (Matthew Needham)
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 14:48:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving a mailing list to a new subdomain
Message-ID: <8B8B4327-678F-4639-A8B4-B01CBECA73CD@hdfgroup.org>


I have a mailman install under cPanel, and I need to move my lists from listname at bigdata.org to listname at lists.bigdata.org. I've read quite a few webpages about how to move lists and rename lists, and I've done a lot of testing. I feel like I'm very close to getting this to work. The only problem that remains is scrubbed attachments.

I've followed the directions at http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030617, and while it says that "links to scrubbed attachments [that] point to the oldlist" can be fixed with "bin/arch --wipe newlist", this doesn't work for me. the command completes without error, but when I look at an archived message, the I still see "URL: <http://mail.bigdata.org/mailman/private/listname_bigdata.org/attachments/20130513/5d587194/attachment.obj>


I have two questions. 

1. For the situation I described, are the instructions on that FAQ (moving the files) the ones I should be following?

2. Should the arch --wipe command really be fixing the links to the scrubbed attachments? I also tried renaming the list  from list1 to list2 without changing the domain, and that didn't help. It seems like it should be easy enough change them manually, but I'd rather use whatever mechanism Mailman provides.


Thanks.


-- 

Matthew Needham

The HDF Group
1800 South Oak Street, Suite 203
Champaign, IL 61820
 
217-531-6110
mneedham at hdfgroup.org


From kip at thevertigo.com  Fri May 17 10:50:49 2013
From: kip at thevertigo.com (Kip Warner)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 01:50:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Python remote urllib.request -> mailman subscription
Message-ID: <1368780649.7880.23.camel@rommel>

Hey list,

I'm not sure if anyone has done this before (probably), but I figured
I'd run my solution by those more knowledgeable of the inner workings of
GNU Mailman. 

My Python 3 / PyGI / Gtk+ application, among other things, prompts a
user for their name, email, and password, and then submits an http POST
request to a hard coded remote GNU Mailman server. So far, the code
appears to work and I'll request a peer review by anyone kind enough:

  <http://rod.gs/Cbq>

One potential concern I've found is that it is difficult to machine
parse the server response to reliably distinguish a successful
subscription from a failure. A successful subscription returns an http
code 200, but so do many failed ones (e.g. bad formatted email address
is still code 200). 

The most reliable brute force method I could come up with was to check
the message body of the returned HTML document for the substring "Your
subscription request has been received". Great, except since Mailman is
i18n capable, its gettext could return something semantically
equivalent, but obviously worded different if the locale is changed. 

However, since the server I am submitting the request to will probably
always use the English user interface, this probably won't be an issue,
but is still inelegant and I'd like to solve it. Moreover, even if it
remains in English, but perhaps the string changes anyways when Mailman
is upgraded, then it is a problem again.

Does anyone have any suggestions or other feedback they'd like to share
or propose a better solution?

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com
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From mneedham at hdfgroup.org  Fri May 17 17:45:40 2013
From: mneedham at hdfgroup.org (Matthew Needham)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 10:45:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving a mailing list to a new subdomain
In-Reply-To: <8B8B4327-678F-4639-A8B4-B01CBECA73CD@hdfgroup.org>
References: <8B8B4327-678F-4639-A8B4-B01CBECA73CD@hdfgroup.org>
Message-ID: <2A6CCFF5-3D47-4751-BEFD-36A0ECFAEF59@hdfgroup.org>

An update...

On May 16, 2013, at 14:48 PM, Matthew Needham <mneedham at hdfgroup.org> wrote:

> I have a mailman install under cPanel, and I need to move my lists from listname at bigdata.org to listname at lists.bigdata.org. I've read quite a few webpages about how to move lists and rename lists, and I've done a lot of testing. I feel like I'm very close to getting this to work. The only problem that remains is scrubbed attachments.
> 
> I've followed the directions at http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030617, and while it says that "links to scrubbed attachments [that] point to the oldlist" can be fixed with "bin/arch --wipe newlist", this doesn't work for me. the command completes without error, but when I look at an archived message, the I still see "URL: <http://mail.bigdata.org/mailman/private/listname_bigdata.org/attachments/20130513/5d587194/attachment.obj>
> 
> 
> I have two questions. 
> 
> 1. For the situation I described, are the instructions on that FAQ (moving the files) the ones I should be following?
> 
> 2. Should the arch --wipe command really be fixing the links to the scrubbed attachments? I also tried renaming the list  from list1 to list2 without changing the domain, and that didn't help. It seems like it should be easy enough change them manually, but I'd rather use whatever mechanism Mailman provides.


The URL in the archives is updated for attachments that were received when scrubbing is OFF. For attachments that were received when scrubbing is ON, the URL is not rewritten and still points to the old list.

Incidentally, message headers report that this is Mailman 2.1.15.



Thanks.


-- 

Matthew Needham

The HDF Group
1800 South Oak Street, Suite 203
Champaign, IL 61820
 
217-531-6110
mneedham at hdfgroup.org


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 17 19:34:53 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 10:34:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving a mailing list to a new subdomain
In-Reply-To: <2A6CCFF5-3D47-4751-BEFD-36A0ECFAEF59@hdfgroup.org>
References: <8B8B4327-678F-4639-A8B4-B01CBECA73CD@hdfgroup.org>
	<2A6CCFF5-3D47-4751-BEFD-36A0ECFAEF59@hdfgroup.org>
Message-ID: <51966A3D.7010302@msapiro.net>

On 05/17/2013 08:45 AM, Matthew Needham wrote:
> An update...
> 
> On May 16, 2013, at 14:48 PM, Matthew Needham <mneedham at hdfgroup.org> wrote:
> 
>> 1. For the situation I described, are the instructions on that FAQ (moving the files) the ones I should be following?


They are as good as any.


>> 2. Should the arch --wipe command really be fixing the links to the scrubbed attachments? I also tried renaming the list  from list1 to list2 without changing the domain, and that didn't help. It seems like it should be easy enough change them manually, but I'd rather use whatever mechanism Mailman provides.
> 
> 
> The URL in the archives is updated for attachments that were received when scrubbing is OFF. For attachments that were received when scrubbing is ON, the URL is not rewritten and still points to the old list.


The issue here is that bin/arch --wipe will fix the links to attachments
scrubbed during the archiving process. However, for attachments scrubbed
during incoming message processing because scrub_nondigest is Yes, the
situation is different.

The attachment was saved in the attachments directory and replaced by a
link in the actual message body. Thus, the LIST.mbox file contains only
the link in the body and the only place the scrubbed attachment exists
is in the attachments directory on the old server.

The only way to fix this is to move the actual files from the
attachments directory on the old server and update the links manually or
possibly with some programmatic process.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 17 19:54:07 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 10:54:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving a mailing list to a new subdomain
In-Reply-To: <51966A3D.7010302@msapiro.net>
References: <8B8B4327-678F-4639-A8B4-B01CBECA73CD@hdfgroup.org>
	<2A6CCFF5-3D47-4751-BEFD-36A0ECFAEF59@hdfgroup.org>
	<51966A3D.7010302@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <51966EBF.8040305@msapiro.net>

On 05/17/2013 10:34 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 05/17/2013 08:45 AM, Matthew Needham wrote:
>> An update...
>>
>> On May 16, 2013, at 14:48 PM, Matthew Needham <mneedham at hdfgroup.org> wrote:
>>
>>> 1. For the situation I described, are the instructions on that FAQ (moving the files) the ones I should be following?
> 
> 
> They are as good as any.


I just updated them to include a warning about the scrub_nondigest
situation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From campbell at cnpapers.com  Fri May 17 20:04:54 2013
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 14:04:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any way to change all members of a particular
	domain to another domain?
Message-ID: <51967146.2010306@cnpapers.com>

We are going to change one of the domain names we have. I have a few 
lists where members of these lists will need to have their email 
addresses changed.

member1 at old-domain.com -> member1 at new-domain.com

I am aware of a few ways I could do this. One is pipe the list's members 
into a file, delete the list, and recreate the members. Or just do an 
add-the-new and delete-the-old. Is there any way other than this?

Thanks
steve campbell

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 17 21:27:35 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 12:27:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any way to change all members of a particular
 domain to another domain?
In-Reply-To: <51967146.2010306@cnpapers.com>
References: <51967146.2010306@cnpapers.com>
Message-ID: <519684A7.6020506@msapiro.net>

On 05/17/2013 11:04 AM, Steve Campbell wrote:
> We are going to change one of the domain names we have. I have a
> few lists where members of these lists will need to have their
> email addresses changed.
> 
> member1 at old-domain.com -> member1 at new-domain.com
> 
> I am aware of a few ways I could do this. One is pipe the list's
> members into a file, delete the list, and recreate the members. Or
> just do an add-the-new and delete-the-old. Is there any way other
> than this?


See the script at
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/change_member_address.py>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dlj at josephson.com  Mon May 20 07:45:21 2013
From: dlj at josephson.com (David Josephson)
Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 22:45:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP problem after recovering from disk full, clues?
Message-ID: <5199B871.8020002@josephson.com>

A very old and well-used list has been fine for years on this box, 
running Mailman 2.1.10 on Red Hat 7.2. The disk got full and everything 
crashed. I was able to clear out a couple GB of space and get all 
services running again, but now mailman will not send any messages, 
either to the list admins or to members. Just before it died completely, 
admins got a "We're sorry, we hit a bug" email.

Incoming spam is properly discarded and logged in /logs/vette. Incoming 
posts show up in /logs/post showing 250 failures (there are 698 members 
on the list). The web interface seems to be functioning properly.

/logs/smtp-failure shows
"Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service not known'), msgid: ..."
and then

May 19 22:02:15 2013 (16851) Low level smtp error: please run connect() 
first, msgid: ...

and then listings of each of the addresses where delivery was attempted, 
each with "delivery to xx at yy failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service 
not known')"

Nothing has changed with /etc/smrsh or sendmail, I can send and receive 
mail with mutt just fine.

When I reinstalled mailman and sent it a test post, I got the group 
mismatch error reminder in the returned mail message that I needed to 
run configure with --with-mail-gid=mail, which I did, now test messages 
to lists don't bounce back to the sender, they just don't get out of the 
server.

Following some of the FAQs I've looked with dumpdb and find no obviously 
corrupt .pck files. I moved ~mailman/lists and ~mailman/archives off 
somewhere else, reinstalled the same version, brought those directories 
back to ~mailman, and get the same behavior.

What am I missing?

--
David Josephson

From guest2 at sgeinc.com  Mon May 20 14:20:56 2013
From: guest2 at sgeinc.com (Richard Shetron)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 08:20:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP problem after recovering from disk full,
 clues?
In-Reply-To: <5199B871.8020002@josephson.com>
References: <5199B871.8020002@josephson.com>
Message-ID: <519A1528.2040308@sgeinc.com>

I've noticed that if mailman is stopped/crashes/system reboot/etc. and 
there is anything in mailman/qfiles/maildir/cur that stuff seems to just 
hang in mailman until you stop mailman, clear this directory, and then 
restart mailman.  May not be your problem but try checking it.

you might also want to run the various check/test programs in 
mailman/bin such as check_db and check_perms.

On 5/20/2013 1:45 AM, David Josephson wrote:
> A very old and well-used list has been fine for years on this box,
> running Mailman 2.1.10 on Red Hat 7.2. The disk got full and everything
> crashed. I was able to clear out a couple GB of space and get all
> services running again, but now mailman will not send any messages,
> either to the list admins or to members. Just before it died completely,
> admins got a "We're sorry, we hit a bug" email.
>
> Incoming spam is properly discarded and logged in /logs/vette. Incoming
> posts show up in /logs/post showing 250 failures (there are 698 members
> on the list). The web interface seems to be functioning properly.
>
> /logs/smtp-failure shows
> "Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service not known'), msgid: ..."
> and then
>
> May 19 22:02:15 2013 (16851) Low level smtp error: please run connect()
> first, msgid: ...
>
> and then listings of each of the addresses where delivery was attempted,
> each with "delivery to xx at yy failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service
> not known')"
>
> Nothing has changed with /etc/smrsh or sendmail, I can send and receive
> mail with mutt just fine.
>
> When I reinstalled mailman and sent it a test post, I got the group
> mismatch error reminder in the returned mail message that I needed to
> run configure with --with-mail-gid=mail, which I did, now test messages
> to lists don't bounce back to the sender, they just don't get out of the
> server.
>
> Following some of the FAQs I've looked with dumpdb and find no obviously
> corrupt .pck files. I moved ~mailman/lists and ~mailman/archives off
> somewhere else, reinstalled the same version, brought those directories
> back to ~mailman, and get the same behavior.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> --
> David Josephson
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/guest2%40sgeinc.com
>

From campbell at cnpapers.com  Mon May 20 14:31:37 2013
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 08:31:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any way to change all members of a particular
 domain to another domain?
In-Reply-To: <519684A7.6020506@msapiro.net>
References: <51967146.2010306@cnpapers.com> <519684A7.6020506@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <519A17A9.8000901@cnpapers.com>

Thanks very much.

steve
On 5/17/2013 3:27 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 05/17/2013 11:04 AM, Steve Campbell wrote:
>> We are going to change one of the domain names we have. I have a
>> few lists where members of these lists will need to have their
>> email addresses changed.
>>
>> member1 at old-domain.com -> member1 at new-domain.com
>>
>> I am aware of a few ways I could do this. One is pipe the list's
>> members into a file, delete the list, and recreate the members. Or
>> just do an add-the-new and delete-the-old. Is there any way other
>> than this?
>
> See the script at
> <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/change_member_address.py>.
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 20 17:00:09 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 08:00:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP problem after recovering from disk full,
 clues?
In-Reply-To: <519A1528.2040308@sgeinc.com>
References: <5199B871.8020002@josephson.com> <519A1528.2040308@sgeinc.com>
Message-ID: <519A3A79.2000204@msapiro.net>

On 05/20/2013 05:20 AM, Richard Shetron wrote:
> I've noticed that if mailman is stopped/crashes/system reboot/etc. and
> there is anything in mailman/qfiles/maildir/cur that stuff seems to just
> hang in mailman until you stop mailman, clear this directory, and then
> restart mailman.  May not be your problem but try checking it.


Maildir delivery to Mailman is experimental and rarely used. It is not
related to the OP's problem anyway, as in his case, messages are being
processed through the pipeline, and it is only the final SMTP delivery
in OutgoingRunner that's failing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dlj at josephson.com  Mon May 20 17:58:25 2013
From: dlj at josephson.com (David Josephson)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 08:58:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP problem after recovering from disk full,
 clues?
In-Reply-To: <519A3A79.2000204@msapiro.net>
References: <5199B871.8020002@josephson.com> <519A1528.2040308@sgeinc.com>
	<519A3A79.2000204@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <519A4821.8020008@josephson.com>


On 05/20/2013 05:20 AM, Richard Shetron wrote:
> I've noticed that if mailman is stopped/crashes/system reboot/etc. and
> there is anything in mailman/qfiles/maildir/cur that stuff seems to just
> hang in mailman until you stop mailman, clear this directory, and then
> restart mailman.  May not be your problem but try checking it.
>

I am looking for this kind of bug, as it's an old version of Mailman, 
but there is no maildir here, as Mark mentioned, and all of qfiles was 
generated new when I rebuilt Mailman.

Also check_db and check_perms show no errors.


From mneedham at hdfgroup.org  Fri May 17 21:52:52 2013
From: mneedham at hdfgroup.org (Matthew Needham)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 14:52:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving a mailing list to a new subdomain
In-Reply-To: <51966A3D.7010302@msapiro.net>
References: <8B8B4327-678F-4639-A8B4-B01CBECA73CD@hdfgroup.org>
	<2A6CCFF5-3D47-4751-BEFD-36A0ECFAEF59@hdfgroup.org>
	<51966A3D.7010302@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1B15BB7B-BD2A-438C-8EA8-0A5372A02044@hdfgroup.org>


On May 17, 2013, at 12:34 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 05/17/2013 08:45 AM, Matthew Needham wrote:
>> An update...
>> 
>> On May 16, 2013, at 14:48 PM, Matthew Needham <mneedham at hdfgroup.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> 1. For the situation I described, are the instructions on that FAQ (moving the files) the ones I should be following?
> 
> 
> They are as good as any.
> 
> 
>>> 2. Should the arch --wipe command really be fixing the links to the scrubbed attachments? I also tried renaming the list  from list1 to list2 without changing the domain, and that didn't help. It seems like it should be easy enough change them manually, but I'd rather use whatever mechanism Mailman provides.
>> 
>> 
>> The URL in the archives is updated for attachments that were received when scrubbing is OFF. For attachments that were received when scrubbing is ON, the URL is not rewritten and still points to the old list.
> 
> 
> The issue here is that bin/arch --wipe will fix the links to attachments
> scrubbed during the archiving process. However, for attachments scrubbed
> during incoming message processing because scrub_nondigest is Yes, the
> situation is different.
> 
> The attachment was saved in the attachments directory and replaced by a
> link in the actual message body. Thus, the LIST.mbox file contains only
> the link in the body and the only place the scrubbed attachment exists
> is in the attachments directory on the old server.
> 
> The only way to fix this is to move the actual files from the
> attachments directory on the old server and update the links manually or
> possibly with some programmatic process.


Thanks, I'll make a script to fix these.


-- 

Matthew Needham

The HDF Group
1800 South Oak Street, Suite 203
Champaign, IL 61820
 
217-531-6110
mneedham at hdfgroup.org


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 20 19:56:39 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 10:56:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP problem after recovering from disk full,
 clues?
In-Reply-To: <5199B871.8020002@josephson.com>
References: <5199B871.8020002@josephson.com>
Message-ID: <519A63D7.3010706@msapiro.net>

On 05/19/2013 10:45 PM, David Josephson wrote:
> 
> /logs/smtp-failure shows
> "Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service not known'), msgid: ..."
> and then


This issue can have several different underlying causes including things
like permissions on /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf. See the FAQs at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9> and <http://wiki.list.org/x/AoE9> and some
posts linked therefrom for various tests and debugging techniques you
can use to help find the cause.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dlj at josephson.com  Mon May 20 20:05:39 2013
From: dlj at josephson.com (David Josephson)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:05:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP problem after recovering from disk full,
 clues?
In-Reply-To: <519A63D7.3010706@msapiro.net>
References: <5199B871.8020002@josephson.com> <519A63D7.3010706@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <519A65F3.3000806@josephson.com>

Yes... but nothing changed on the server in /etc ... it worked fine a 
couple of days ago, then there was a disk full, now it doesn't. Nothing 
has changed in /etc for several months, and regular mail client works.

> On 05/19/2013 10:45 PM, David Josephson wrote:
>>
>> /logs/smtp-failure shows
>> "Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service not known'), msgid: ..."
>> and then
>
>
> This issue can have several different underlying causes including things
> like permissions on /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf. See the FAQs at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9> and <http://wiki.list.org/x/AoE9> and some
> posts linked therefrom for various tests and debugging techniques you
> can use to help find the cause.
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 20 20:12:23 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:12:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP problem after recovering from disk full,
 clues?
In-Reply-To: <519A65F3.3000806@josephson.com>
References: <5199B871.8020002@josephson.com> <519A63D7.3010706@msapiro.net>
	<519A65F3.3000806@josephson.com>
Message-ID: <519A6787.3010905@msapiro.net>

On 05/20/2013 11:05 AM, David Josephson wrote:
> Yes... but nothing changed on the server in /etc ... it worked fine a
> couple of days ago, then there was a disk full, now it doesn't. Nothing
> has changed in /etc for several months, and regular mail client works.


Yes, but read the FAQs and do some of the tests outlined therein and in
list posts linked therefrom to help you figure out what the problem is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jfayre at gmail.com  Mon May 20 20:44:59 2013
From: jfayre at gmail.com (Jason Fayre)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 14:44:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching list archives
Message-ID: <519A6F2B.4060307@gmail.com>

Hi,
Wondering if someone can point me in the right direction.  I am trying 
to set up a system to allow searching of individual list archives, as 
well as a global search.  I currently have this set up with swish-e.  
However, I would like something that will automatically create the 
indexes and config files for a list as it is created.  Is there any sort 
of turnkey solution for this?


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 20 21:15:47 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:15:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching list archives
In-Reply-To: <519A6F2B.4060307@gmail.com>
References: <519A6F2B.4060307@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <519A7663.9010307@msapiro.net>

On 05/20/2013 11:44 AM, Jason Fayre wrote:
> Hi,
> Wondering if someone can point me in the right direction.  I am trying
> to set up a system to allow searching of individual list archives, as
> well as a global search.  I currently have this set up with swish-e. 
> However, I would like something that will automatically create the
> indexes and config files for a list as it is created.  Is there any sort
> of turnkey solution for this?


There are patches that do this among other things for htdig. See
<http://www.msapiro.net/mm/> and the HTDIG section of
<http://www.msapiro.net/mm/_README>. I don't know how difficult it would
be to modify these for swish-e.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dlj at josephson.com  Mon May 20 21:41:12 2013
From: dlj at josephson.com (David Josephson)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:41:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP problem after recovering from disk full,
 clues?
In-Reply-To: <519A6787.3010905@msapiro.net>
References: <5199B871.8020002@josephson.com> <519A63D7.3010706@msapiro.net>
	<519A65F3.3000806@josephson.com> <519A6787.3010905@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <519A7C58.6080207@josephson.com>

On 5/20/2013 11:12 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 05/20/2013 11:05 AM, David Josephson wrote:
>> Yes... but nothing changed on the server in /etc ... it worked fine a
>> couple of days ago, then there was a disk full, now it doesn't. Nothing
>> has changed in /etc for several months, and regular mail client works.
>
> Yes, but read the FAQs and do some of the tests outlined therein and in
> list posts linked therefrom to help you figure out what the problem is.
>
Thank you. /etc/hosts contained a line

127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain

Previously that was enough for Mailman. Adding 'localhost' on that line 
fixed the problem. What would have changed to cause this?

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 20 22:20:06 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 13:20:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP problem after recovering from disk full,
 clues?
In-Reply-To: <519A7C58.6080207@josephson.com>
References: <5199B871.8020002@josephson.com> <519A63D7.3010706@msapiro.net>
	<519A65F3.3000806@josephson.com> <519A6787.3010905@msapiro.net>
	<519A7C58.6080207@josephson.com>
Message-ID: <519A8576.6030307@msapiro.net>

On 05/20/2013 12:41 PM, David Josephson wrote:

> Thank you. /etc/hosts contained a line
> 
> 127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain
> 
> Previously that was enough for Mailman. Adding 'localhost' on that line
> fixed the problem. What would have changed to cause this?


Possibly you had previously set

SMTPHOST = 'localhost.localdomain'

or something similar in mm_cfg.py, and this got dropped reverting to the
Defaults.py

SMTPHOST = 'localhost'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jurgen.gaeremyn at pandora.be  Tue May 21 22:01:32 2013
From: jurgen.gaeremyn at pandora.be (Jurgen Gaeremyn)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 22:01:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Joomla 2.5 bridge for Mailman
In-Reply-To: <49682.81.83.14.198.1369116853.squirrel@mail.tigertech.net>
References: <49682.81.83.14.198.1369116853.squirrel@mail.tigertech.net>
Message-ID: <519BD29C.3010007@pandora.be>


Hey,

I'm having a Joomla component being developed to interface between the
Joomla membership list and the Mailman subscriber list (using docman for
the extra fields). If it's done, I'm going to GNU/GPL (v3) it.

I expect it to be ready somewhere halfway next week. I'm looking for a few
sets of eyes to look into the code and to catch possible bugs. Anyone in
here already working with Joomla 2.5 and/or interested in looking into the
code?

Please send me a note and I'll shoot you a mail and the installer as soon
as I get it.

Grtz,
Jurgen.




From sebastian_lillo_n at yahoo.com  Wed May 22 02:31:51 2013
From: sebastian_lillo_n at yahoo.com (Sebastian Lillo - Yahoo)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 17:31:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] anonymous_list not working
Message-ID: <1369182711.21360.YahooMailNeo@web142404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hi, I'm migrating from:

mailman ? ? ? ?1:2.1.12-2ubun?

postfix ? ? ? ?2.6.5-3


to

mailman ? ? ? ? ? 1:2.1.14-3ubuntu0?

sendmail ? ? ? ? ?8.14.4-2ubuntu2 ? ?


and I'm having problems configuring the anonymous_list. I have that flag on, and reply-to-address?set, but the message still shows the actual sender's address instead. It worked ok in the old environment. Any clues ??

Thanks in advance.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 22 07:20:41 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 22:20:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] anonymous_list not working
In-Reply-To: <1369182711.21360.YahooMailNeo@web142404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1369182711.21360.YahooMailNeo@web142404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <519C55A9.9090806@msapiro.net>

On 05/21/2013 05:31 PM, Sebastian Lillo - Yahoo wrote:
> Hi, I'm migrating from:
> 
> mailman        1:2.1.12-2ubun 
> 
> postfix        2.6.5-3
> 
> 
> to
> 
> mailman           1:2.1.14-3ubuntu0 
> 
> sendmail          8.14.4-2ubuntu2    
> 
> 
> and I'm having problems configuring the anonymous_list. I have that flag on, and reply-to-address set, but the message still shows the actual sender's address instead. It worked ok in the old environment. Any clues ??


Is there a 'post to LISTNAME from SENDER anonymized' entry in Mailman's
'post' log?

Is 'Cleanse' in the GLOBAL_PIPELINE?

Does 'bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck | grep -A20 pipeline' show
anything? If so, what?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dbrooks at mdah.state.ms.us  Thu May 23 14:58:46 2013
From: dbrooks at mdah.state.ms.us (Donny Brooks)
Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 07:58:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] External web access problems
Message-ID: <7c57-519e1280-5-10e5070@162650949>

I have setup mailman on my centos 6.3 server using yum. Everything was working with the exception of external web access due to the way our agency has to go through the state firewall. So in order to have the ability for people to subscribe/unsubscribe themselves I have set it up with a proxypass statement on our web server being that it already had http(s) access. Accessing the site works now on the inside and outside. However it is still trying to go to the mail servers URL which is only accessible via http inside our network. I got to looking at the mm_cfg.py file and noteiced I had the URLs backwards:

DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'mail.mdah.state.ms.us'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mdah.state.ms.us'

so I changed them around and restarted the mailman service. Now when I go to create a new list on the web interface, internally or externally, I get the error: 

Error: Unknon virtual host: mail.mdah.state.ms.us.

I have to change it back to the original for it to work and then it only works internally. When any subscribe emails go out it won't work due to putting the mail.mdah.state.ms.us in the email instead of just mdah.state.ms.us. I have the web creation working now by adding the mail.mdah.state.ms.us explicitly under the existing add_virtualhost directive in the mm_cfg.py. However now when a new list is created and people are subscribed it still puts the mail.mdah.state.ms.us in the email so people on the outside still cannot click the link and it work. Where am I going wrong?

-- 

Donny B.

From jfayre at gmail.com  Fri May 24 20:10:14 2013
From: jfayre at gmail.com (Jason Fayre)
Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 14:10:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving archives before migration
Message-ID: <519FAD06.3070308@gmail.com>

Hello,
I am in the process of migrating data from a server to a new vps. The 
server is hosting around 200 lists.  The mail archives on this server 
are around 30GB.
The only way I can get the data to the new server is over the internet.  
Due to the speed of the DSL link (700k upload), I need to turn off the 
mail server in order to migrate data at any sort of reasonable speed.
What I would like to do is move the list archives out of the mailman 
directory temporarily while we migrate everything else over.  Then, once 
we have the new server set up, move the archives.
cPanel is doing the migration, and they cannot selectively exclude 
directories.  They need to move the account with the mailing lists as 
one package.
If this makes any sort of sense, can someone point me in the right 
direction on how we might accomplish this.  If we can't do the archives 
later, I'm going to need to have the mail server down for about a week 
while the data moves over.  I'm trying to avoid this, since some of our 
lists are fairly high traffic.



From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 24 23:43:03 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 14:43:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving archives before migration
In-Reply-To: <519FAD06.3070308@gmail.com>
References: <519FAD06.3070308@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <519FDEE7.5050401@msapiro.net>

On 05/24/2013 11:10 AM, Jason Fayre wrote:
> Hello,
> I am in the process of migrating data from a server to a new vps. The
> server is hosting around 200 lists.  The mail archives on this server
> are around 30GB.


You don't need to move the entire archive. You probably need to rebuild
the archives on the new server anyway to fix things like links to
scrubbed attachments, so with one important exception, all you need are
the archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox files which are used to
rebuild the archives on the new server with 'bin/arch --wipe'.

The exception is if any lists have scrub_nondigest = Yes, any
attachments were scrubbed during incoming message processing and are not
in the LISTNAME.mbox file. Thus, for those lists if any the
archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments directory needs to be moved and
some process run to fix the links in archived messages.


> The only way I can get the data to the new server is over the internet. 
> Due to the speed of the DSL link (700k upload), I need to turn off the
> mail server in order to migrate data at any sort of reasonable speed.
> What I would like to do is move the list archives out of the mailman
> directory temporarily while we migrate everything else over.  Then, once
> we have the new server set up, move the archives.


I think this could work and as I say above, at most you only need to
ultimately move the LISTNAME.mbox files and maybe some attachments/
directories.


> If this makes any sort of sense, can someone point me in the right
> direction on how we might accomplish this.  If we can't do the archives
> later, I'm going to need to have the mail server down for about a week
> while the data moves over.  I'm trying to avoid this, since some of our
> lists are fairly high traffic.


Presumably, you're OK with not having archives for the time the move takes.

Here's what I'd do.

1) Put ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 1 in mm_cfg.py on the old server and restart
Mailman and don't forget to remove it on the new server. This will turn
off pipermail archiving and only update the LISTNAME.mbox files.
2) Move aside or just delete the archives/private/LISTNAME/ directories
except maybe the archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments/ directories for
any scrub_nondigest = Yes lists.
3) After the lists are running on the new server, move the LISTNAME.mbox
files to some place else on the new server. You don't want to overwrite
the new LISTNAME.mbox files.
4) If there are any scrub_nondigest lists, they should be OK because
their attachments/ directories got moved with the rest of the list stuff.
5) Stop Mailman on the new server and merge the old and new
LISTNAME.mbox files and run bin/arch --wipe for each list.
6) Restart Mailman

If steps 3 - 5 don't take too much time because of not moving the
pipermail archives, you could just move the LISTNAME.mbox files into
place and run the bin/arch --wipe before ever starting Mailman on the
new server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jovino at uerj.br  Sat May 25 02:19:59 2013
From: jovino at uerj.br (jovino at uerj.br)
Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 21:19:59 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and / or Postfix problem
Message-ID: <82a06f51f1a3d13d750bc837715ab890.squirrel@master.uerj.br>




?

	Hello,

	?

	?

	? ? ? ? ? ? I am not sure
if?sending?below?question?to this?discussion
list?is the best way to resolve a problem that we are are getting in
our

	? ? ??

	? ? ? university. Otherwise, please, send me a better way
to relate ?this problem.?

	?

	?

	? ? ? ? ? ? Here, in ?University of
Rio de Janeiro State ?(Universidade do Estado do Rio de Janeiro -
UERJ), ? we are trying to?

	?

	? ? ? migrate a Mailman Server ? 2.1.9 ?with
Postfix Server ?2.3.3 ? ?to a newer ?computer with
Postfix ? ?2.6.6

	?

	? ? ? and Mailman 2.1.12 , ?registered?as
e-listas2.uerj.br ? in ?DNS. ?We do not have any
problems?with the first (old) system and it is running ok.

	?

	?

	? ? ? ? ? ?At the second system we
have?installed and?configurated Mailman and Postfix. Also, we
have?created a test list (dit-so at e-listas2.uerj.br)

	?

	? ??and everything seems ok, according?web
interface?administration?of Mailman.

	?

	? ? ?Files in /var/lib/mailman seems ok, too.

	?

	?

	? ? ? ? ? ? ?The problem is that
when?I am?trying to post a mail from?E-mail server (which
runs in a separated??server) to the list that ?

	?

	? ?we have created , ?it is logged in the /var/log/maillog
of the new lists server?(Mailman?2.1.12)?the following
messages:

	?

	?

	? ? ? May 23 21:33:12 e-listas2 postfix/smtpd[1918]:
connect from master.uerj.br[152.92.1.9] ? ? ? (our E-mail
Server)

	?

	? ? ? May 23 21:33:12 e-listas2 postfix/smtpd[1918]:
B734CDF713: client=master.uerj.br[152.92.1.9]

	?

	? ? ? May 23 21:33:12 e-listas2 postfix/cleanup[1921]:
B734CDF713:
message-id=<0e0fb214e9b853dc75424da0890f918a.squirrel at master.uerj.br>

	?

	? ? ? May 23 21:33:12 e-listas2 postfix/qmgr[1761]:
B734CDF713: from=<jovino at uerj.br>, size=1409, nrcpt=1 (queue
active)

	?

	? ? ? May 23 21:33:12 e-listas2 postfix/smtpd[1918]:
disconnect from master.uerj.br[152.92.1.9]

	?

	? ? ? May 23 21:33:12 e-listas2 postfix/local[1922]:
B734CDF713: to=<dit-so at e-listas2.uerj.br>, relay=local, delay=0.23,
delays=0.03/0.03/0/0.17, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post dit-so)

	?

	? ? ? May 23 21:33:12 e-listas2 postfix/qmgr[1761]:
B734CDF713: removed

	?

	? ? ? May 23 21:33:13 e-listas2 postfix/smtpd[1918]:
connect from localhost[::1]

	?

	? ? ? May 23 21:33:13 e-listas2 postfix/smtpd[1918]:
NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from localhost[::1]: 554 5.7.1
<mselecto at uerj.br>: Relay access denied;
from=<dit-so-bounces at e-listas2.uerj.br> to=<mselecto at uerj.br>
proto=ESMTP helo=<e-listas2.uerj.br>

	?

	? ? ? May 23 21:33:13 e-listas2 postfix/smtpd[1918]:
NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from localhost[::1]: 554 5.7.1
<jovino at uerj.br>: Relay access denied;
from=<dit-so-bounces at e-listas2.uerj.br> to=<jovino at uerj.br>
proto=ESMTP helo=<e-listas2.uerj.br>

	?

	? ? ? May 23 21:33:13 e-listas2 postfix/smtpd[1918]:
disconnect from localhost[::1]

	?

	?

	? ? ? I think we have already exhausted our knowledge
about these softwares.

	? ? ?

	?

	? ? ? Configuration files ? /etc/mailman/mm_cc.py
? and ? ?/etc/postfix/main.cf follow:

	?

	?

	======================================================================================

	?

	? ? ? mm_cc.py

	? ? ? ========

	?

	?

	? ? ? # Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001,2002 by the Free
Software Foundation, Inc.

	?

	?

	? ? ? from Defaults import *

	? ? ? import pwd, grp

	?

	? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ??

	? ? ? MAILMAN_UID = pwd.getpwnam('mailman')[2]

	?

	? ? ? MAILMAN_GID = grp.getgrnam('mailman')[2]

	?

	? ? ? from socket import *

	? ? ? try:

	? ? ? ? ? fqdn = getfqdn()

	? ? ? ? ? except:

	? ? ? ? ? fqdn =
'mm_cfg_has_unknown_host_domains'

	?

	? ? ? DEFAULT_URL_HOST ? = 'e-listas2.uerj.br'

	? ? ? DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'e-listas2.uerj.br'

	?

	? ? ? DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman'

	? ? ? PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'

	?

	? ? ? add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST,
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

	?

	? ? ? MTA = 'Postfix'

	?

	=========================================================================================

	?

	? ? ? conf.cf

	? ? ? =======

	?

	? ? ? myhostname = e-listas2.uerj.br

	?

	? ? ? mydomain = e-listas2.uerj.br

	?

	? ? ? myorigin = $mydomain

	?

	? ? ? inet_interfaces = all

	?

	? ? ? mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain,
localhost, $mydomain

	?

	? ? ? mynetworks = 127.0.0.1/32 152.92.1.9

	?

	? ? ? relay_domains =

	?

	? ? ? home_mailbox = Mailbox

	?

	? ? ? queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix

	?

	? ? ? command_directory = /usr/sbin

	?

	? ? ? daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix

	?

	? ? ? debug_peer_level = 2

	?

	? ? ? debugger_command =

	? ? ? ? ? ?
PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin

	? ? ? ? ? ? ddd
$daemon_directory/$process_name $process_id & sleep 5

	?

	? ? ? sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix

	?

	? ? ? newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases.postfix

	?

	? ? ? mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq.postfix

	?

	? ? ? setgid_group = postdrop

	?

	? ? ? html_directory = no

	?

	? ? ? manpage_directory = /usr/share/man

	?

	? ? ? sample_directory =
/usr/share/doc/postfix-2.6.6/samples

	?

	? ? ? readme_directory =
/usr/share/doc/postfix-2.6.6/README_FILES

	?

	? ? ? unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550

	?

	? ? ? alias_maps =
hash:/etc/aliases,hash:/etc/mailman/aliases

	?

	? ? ? alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases

	?

	?

	?

	? ? ? Thanks a lot for any information.

	?

	?

	==============================

	Jovino de Vasconcelos Borret

	UERJ - DINFO - DIT

	?


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 25 21:35:27 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 12:35:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and / or Postfix problem
In-Reply-To: <82a06f51f1a3d13d750bc837715ab890.squirrel@master.uerj.br>
References: <82a06f51f1a3d13d750bc837715ab890.squirrel@master.uerj.br>
Message-ID: <51A1127F.5090603@msapiro.net>

On 05/24/2013 05:19 PM, jovino at uerj.br wrote:
> 
> 	             The problem is that
> when I am trying to post a mail from E-mail server (which
> runs in a separated  server) to the list that  
> we have created ,  it is logged in the /var/log/maillog
> of the new lists server (Mailman 2.1.12) the following
> messages:
[...]
> 	      May 23 21:33:12 e-listas2 postfix/local[1922]:
> B734CDF713: to=<dit-so at e-listas2.uerj.br>, relay=local, delay=0.23,
> delays=0.03/0.03/0/0.17, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post dit-so)


Here the message was properly posted to the mail wrapper which queued
it. Everything up to this point is good.


[...]
> 	      May 23 21:33:13 e-listas2 postfix/smtpd[1918]:
> connect from localhost[::1]


Your localhost is connecting via IPv6.


> 	      May 23 21:33:13 e-listas2 postfix/smtpd[1918]:
> NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from localhost[::1]: 554 5.7.1
> <mselecto at uerj.br>: Relay access denied;
> from=<dit-so-bounces at e-listas2.uerj.br> to=<mselecto at uerj.br>
> proto=ESMTP helo=<e-listas2.uerj.br>
> 
> 	      May 23 21:33:13 e-listas2 postfix/smtpd[1918]:
> NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from localhost[::1]: 554 5.7.1
> <jovino at uerj.br>: Relay access denied;
> from=<dit-so-bounces at e-listas2.uerj.br> to=<jovino at uerj.br>
> proto=ESMTP helo=<e-listas2.uerj.br>


Here Mailman is trying to send the post to the list members or maybe
sending a notice to the list moderators and Postfix won't relay to those
addresses.


> 	      mm_cc.py


I assume this is really mm_cfg.py, but I don't think any of it is
relevant to this issue.


[...]
> 	      conf.cf


And this I assume in main.cf. Tip: in general people don't want to see
your main.cf. It's too unwieldy. You should post the output from
'postconf -n'.


[...]
> 	      mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain,
> localhost, $mydomain


mydestination doesn't include the uerj.br domain.


> 	 
> 
> 	      mynetworks = 127.0.0.1/32 152.92.1.9


and mynetworks does not include the IPv6 address of localhost. Thus,
uerj.br is not a local domain and the originating server is not in what
Postfix is told is the local network so Postfix won't relay the mail.

There are various ways to fix this.

1) add either localhost or ::1 to mynetworks.

2) edit /etc/hosts so that the name localhost is 127.0.0.1 instead of ::1

3) put

SMTPHOST = 'the /etc/hosts name of 127.0.0.1'

in mm_cfg.py.

These three solutions are mutually exclusive. You only need one of them.
Which one is best depends on what else your server is used for.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jfayre at gmail.com  Sat May 25 21:50:25 2013
From: jfayre at gmail.com (Jason Fayre)
Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 15:50:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching list archives
In-Reply-To: <519A7663.9010307@msapiro.net>
References: <519A6F2B.4060307@gmail.com> <519A7663.9010307@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <51A11601.3050401@gmail.com>

Hello,
Thanks for your response!  The only issue here is that my mailman 
install is running under cpanel.  Is it possible to apply these patches 
to a cpanel modified mailman install?  If not, is my only alternative to 
replace cpanel's provided mailman version?
I have access to root on the server.




On 5/20/2013 3:15 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 05/20/2013 11:44 AM, Jason Fayre wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Wondering if someone can point me in the right direction.  I am trying
>> to set up a system to allow searching of individual list archives, as
>> well as a global search.  I currently have this set up with swish-e.
>> However, I would like something that will automatically create the
>> indexes and config files for a list as it is created.  Is there any sort
>> of turnkey solution for this?
>
> There are patches that do this among other things for htdig. See
> <http://www.msapiro.net/mm/> and the HTDIG section of
> <http://www.msapiro.net/mm/_README>. I don't know how difficult it would
> be to modify these for swish-e.
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 26 00:39:13 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 15:39:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching list archives
In-Reply-To: <51A11601.3050401@gmail.com>
References: <519A6F2B.4060307@gmail.com> <519A7663.9010307@msapiro.net>
	<51A11601.3050401@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51A13D91.20302@msapiro.net>

On 05/25/2013 12:50 PM, Jason Fayre wrote:
> Hello,
> Thanks for your response!  The only issue here is that my mailman
> install is running under cpanel.  Is it possible to apply these patches
> to a cpanel modified mailman install?  If not, is my only alternative to
> replace cpanel's provided mailman version?
> I have access to root on the server.


Replacing cPanel's Mailman is probably tricky, and if you actually have
lists of the same name in more than one domain, that's not supported in
standard GNU Mailman.

I think the indexing/htdig patches would port fairly easily to cPanel,
but the only way to know is to try.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jfayre at gmail.com  Mon May 27 19:50:07 2013
From: jfayre at gmail.com (Jason Fayre)
Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 13:50:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching list archives
In-Reply-To: <51A13D91.20302@msapiro.net>
References: <519A6F2B.4060307@gmail.com> <519A7663.9010307@msapiro.net>
	<51A11601.3050401@gmail.com> <51A13D91.20302@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <51A39CCF.2050202@gmail.com>

Hello,
The version of mailman on my server is 2.1.15.  It looks like the latest 
htdig patch is for 2.1.14.  Will this still work?

On 5/25/2013 6:39 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 05/25/2013 12:50 PM, Jason Fayre wrote:
>> Hello,
>> Thanks for your response!  The only issue here is that my mailman
>> install is running under cpanel.  Is it possible to apply these patches
>> to a cpanel modified mailman install?  If not, is my only alternative to
>> replace cpanel's provided mailman version?
>> I have access to root on the server.
>
> Replacing cPanel's Mailman is probably tricky, and if you actually have
> lists of the same name in more than one domain, that's not supported in
> standard GNU Mailman.
>
> I think the indexing/htdig patches would port fairly easily to cPanel,
> but the only way to know is to try.
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 27 20:10:21 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 11:10:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching list archives
In-Reply-To: <51A39CCF.2050202@gmail.com>
References: <519A6F2B.4060307@gmail.com> <519A7663.9010307@msapiro.net>
	<51A11601.3050401@gmail.com> <51A13D91.20302@msapiro.net>
	<51A39CCF.2050202@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51A3A18D.9080204@msapiro.net>

On 05/27/2013 10:50 AM, Jason Fayre wrote:
> Hello,
> The version of mailman on my server is 2.1.15.  It looks like the latest
> htdig patch is for 2.1.14.  Will this still work?


There is a 2.1.15 patch at
<http://www.msapiro.net/mm/index_htdig.patch.2.1.15>.

Also see <http://www.msapiro.net/mm/_README>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jfayre at gmail.com  Mon May 27 20:27:30 2013
From: jfayre at gmail.com (Jason Fayre)
Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 14:27:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching list archives
In-Reply-To: <51A3A18D.9080204@msapiro.net>
References: <519A6F2B.4060307@gmail.com> <519A7663.9010307@msapiro.net>
	<51A11601.3050401@gmail.com> <51A13D91.20302@msapiro.net>
	<51A39CCF.2050202@gmail.com> <51A3A18D.9080204@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <51A3A592.40504@gmail.com>

Ok, thanks.  I had looked at the install doc, but not the readme.  As I 
understand it, this will allow me to search each list from the archive 
toc page.  Is there a way to create a master index of all lists that can 
be searched?

On 5/27/2013 2:10 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 05/27/2013 10:50 AM, Jason Fayre wrote:
>> Hello,
>> The version of mailman on my server is 2.1.15.  It looks like the latest
>> htdig patch is for 2.1.14.  Will this still work?
>
> There is a 2.1.15 patch at
> <http://www.msapiro.net/mm/index_htdig.patch.2.1.15>.
>
> Also see <http://www.msapiro.net/mm/_README>.
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 28 01:34:28 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:34:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching list archives
In-Reply-To: <51A3A592.40504@gmail.com>
References: <519A6F2B.4060307@gmail.com> <519A7663.9010307@msapiro.net>
	<51A11601.3050401@gmail.com> <51A13D91.20302@msapiro.net>
	<51A39CCF.2050202@gmail.com> <51A3A18D.9080204@msapiro.net>
	<51A3A592.40504@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51A3ED84.3040603@msapiro.net>

On 05/27/2013 11:27 AM, Jason Fayre wrote:
> Ok, thanks.  I had looked at the install doc, but not the readme.  As I
> understand it, this will allow me to search each list from the archive
> toc page.  Is there a way to create a master index of all lists that can
> be searched?


The patch does a couple of things. It adds tags in the html archive
pages that are use to suppress indexing of "archive boilerplate", and it
adds the search form for each list's archive to the TOC for that list
and actually creates the htdig configurations and cgi that are used to
generate indexes and searches for that list.

If you want a global search, it seems to me that you could just use
htdig or another search engine to index and search the entire archive
without patching Mailman at all or at least not beyond the indexing patch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Tue May 28 14:39:08 2013
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 08:39:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fire Wall Ports - 80, 25, others?
Message-ID: <p06240879cdca543e6cde@[192.168.0.112]>

HI All --

I'm running a mailman system that is located within a University IT system.  The Proofpoint managers recently managed to block the outside world from getting to Mailman (both the web interface and incoming mail) just before the long weekend by mucking with the fire wall rules.  [They did revert the rules before we were down for 4 days, which would have very extremely inconvenient.]

Is there a good reference to what ports and protocols they should leave alone so we can keep working?

-- Drew Tenenholz

P.S.  I didn't really get a chance to check on outgoing mail, as I don't work full-time for this client.  If I was directly connected through a VPN and to the internal network, web access was fine, which was the clue that this wasn't mailman's fault

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue May 28 19:57:27 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 02:57:27 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Fire Wall Ports - 80, 25, others?
In-Reply-To: <p06240879cdca543e6cde@[192.168.0.112]>
References: <p06240879cdca543e6cde@[192.168.0.112]>
Message-ID: <87li6zrnqw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Drew Tenenholz writes:

 > Is there a good reference to what ports and protocols they should
 > leave alone so we can keep working?

These can be changed in mm_cfg.py, I believe, but incoming 80 (HTTP)
and 25 (SMTP) and outgoing 25 (SMTP) cover most sites.  Incoming 443
(HTTPS) is another possibility.

From jfayre at gmail.com  Tue May 28 21:53:10 2013
From: jfayre at gmail.com (Jason Fayre)
Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 15:53:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] odd issues with fqdn listinfo
Message-ID: <51A50B26.4040609@gmail.com>

Hi,
First off, let me say thanks for all the amazing help I have received 
from this list!
We have just migrated our mailing lists from a old server running cPanel 
to a new one, also running cPanel.  I have a feeling that this issue may 
have to do with the patches that cPanel applies to Mailman.
If I go to domain.com/mailman/listinfo, I see all of our public mailing 
lists.  However, if I go to www.domain.com/mailman/listinfo, I am told 
that there are no public lists on the server.
The crazy thing is that this worked on the old server.  Since I wasn't 
the one who set up the old system, it is possible that someone put some 
sort of apache rewrite rule on the old system to make this work.

Any ideas?



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 28 23:09:43 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 14:09:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] odd issues with fqdn listinfo
In-Reply-To: <51A50B26.4040609@gmail.com>
References: <51A50B26.4040609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51A51D17.3080205@msapiro.net>

On 05/28/2013 12:53 PM, Jason Fayre wrote:

> If I go to domain.com/mailman/listinfo, I see all of our public mailing
> lists.  However, if I go to www.domain.com/mailman/listinfo, I am told
> that there are no public lists on the server.
> The crazy thing is that this worked on the old server.  Since I wasn't
> the one who set up the old system, it is possible that someone put some
> sort of apache rewrite rule on the old system to make this work.


That, or the old server had

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = No

in mm_cfg.py. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jovino at uerj.br  Wed May 29 00:01:30 2013
From: jovino at uerj.br (jovino at uerj.br)
Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 19:01:30 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and / or Postfix problem
In-Reply-To: <51A1127F.5090603@msapiro.net>
References: <82a06f51f1a3d13d750bc837715ab890.squirrel@master.uerj.br>
	<51A1127F.5090603@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <d99235ab1662323ee57f848e97ab436d.squirrel@master.uerj.br>




Hello Mark,
?
? ? ??Thanks a
lot? for your help. ?We have used your second option (Edit
/etc/hosts....)
? ? ? and?server
seems?run?fine
now.
?
==========================
Jovino de
Vasconcelos Borret
UERJ - Brazil ?
?
?
> On 05/24/2013 05:19 PM, jovino at uerj.br
wrote:

>>

>> The problem is that

>> when I am trying to post a mail from E-mail server (which

>> runs in a separated server) to the list that

>> we have created , it is logged in the /var/log/maillog

>> of the new lists server (Mailman 2.1.12) the following

>> messages:

> [...]

>> May 23 21:33:12 e-listas2 postfix/local[1922]:

>> B734CDF713: to=<dit-so at e-listas2.uerj.br>, relay=local,
delay=0.23,

>> delays=0.03/0.03/0/0.17, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to
command:

>> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post dit-so)

>

>

> Here the message was properly posted to the mail wrapper which
queued

> it. Everything up to this point is good.

>

>

> [...]

>> May 23 21:33:13 e-listas2 postfix/smtpd[1918]:

>> connect from localhost[::1]

>

>

> Your localhost is connecting via IPv6.

>

>

>> May 23 21:33:13 e-listas2 postfix/smtpd[1918]:

>> NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from localhost[::1]: 554 5.7.1

>> <mselecto at uerj.br>: Relay access denied;

>> from=<dit-so-bounces at e-listas2.uerj.br>
to=<mselecto at uerj.br>

>> proto=ESMTP helo=<e-listas2.uerj.br>

>>

>> May 23 21:33:13 e-listas2 postfix/smtpd[1918]:

>> NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from localhost[::1]: 554 5.7.1

>> <jovino at uerj.br>: Relay access denied;

>> from=<dit-so-bounces at e-listas2.uerj.br>
to=<jovino at uerj.br>

>> proto=ESMTP helo=<e-listas2.uerj.br>

>

>

> Here Mailman is trying to send the post to the list members or
maybe

> sending a notice to the list moderators and Postfix won't relay to
those

> addresses.

>

>

>> mm_cc.py

>

>

> I assume this is really mm_cfg.py, but I don't think any of it is

> relevant to this issue.

>

>

> [...]

>> conf.cf

>

>

> And this I assume in main.cf. Tip: in general people don't want to
see

> your main.cf. It's too unwieldy. You should post the output from

> 'postconf -n'.

>

>

> [...]

>> mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain,

>> localhost, $mydomain

>

>

> mydestination doesn't include the uerj.br domain.

>

>

>>

>>

>> mynetworks = 127.0.0.1/32 152.92.1.9

>

>

> and mynetworks does not include the IPv6 address of localhost.
Thus,

> uerj.br is not a local domain and the originating server is not in
what

> Postfix is told is the local network so Postfix won't relay the
mail.

>

> There are various ways to fix this.

>

> 1) add either localhost or ::1 to mynetworks.

>

> 2) edit /etc/hosts so that the name localhost is 127.0.0.1 instead of
::1

>

> 3) put

>

> SMTPHOST = 'the /etc/hosts name of 127.0.0.1'

>

> in mm_cfg.py.

>

> These three solutions are mutually exclusive. You only need one of
them.

> Which one is best depends on what else your server is used for.

>

> --

> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,

> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B.
Dylan

>

From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Tue May 28 19:28:19 2013
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 13:28:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fire Wall Ports - 80, 25, others?
In-Reply-To: <51A4B0C7.7090403@uni-konstanz.de>
References: <p06240879cdca543e6cde@[192.168.0.112]>
	<51A4B0C7.7090403@uni-konstanz.de>
Message-ID: <p06240898cdca97c7b4ad@[192.168.0.112]>

Does anyone know if the mailman web pages can be hosted on alternative ports than 80 & 443?  University IT would like to block them. 

Christian --

Thanks for the confirmation.  To clarify, I'm using subscribe_policy = "Confirm", so I like to have users be able to confirm via the website.  (I've seen confirmation requests end up in the moderation queue instead of being acted upon automatically, and since we lack the resources to daily read though what is nearly 99% junk, some users are left hanging.)  Good to know that port 80 should be open to the entire world, with the exception above.

For ssh, I have a a VPN connection that lets me access the server, so that can be closed to the world and I still get what I need.

-- Drew

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 29 19:00:11 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 10:00:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fire Wall Ports - 80, 25, others?
In-Reply-To: <p06240898cdca97c7b4ad@[192.168.0.112]>
References: <p06240879cdca543e6cde@[192.168.0.112]>
	<51A4B0C7.7090403@uni-konstanz.de>
	<p06240898cdca97c7b4ad@[192.168.0.112]>
Message-ID: <51A6341B.9020807@msapiro.net>

On 05/28/2013 10:28 AM, Drew Tenenholz wrote:
> Does anyone know if the mailman web pages can be hosted on alternative ports than 80 & 443?  University IT would like to block them. 

You can configure your web server to listen on any port you like.

The things you'd need in Mailman are

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:pppp/mailman/'
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s:pppp/pipermail/%(listname)s'

in mm_cfg.py where pppp is the port you are listening on, and then run
fix_url to update the lists for the new DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From seun.ojedeji at gmail.com  Thu May 30 20:37:22 2013
From: seun.ojedeji at gmail.com (Seun Ojedeji)
Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 19:37:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard/Ban all messages pending moderation
Message-ID: <CAD_dc6hVf9pup-qF94TZ4U9FZV9ejwSqkuFrUx6+MEhhMw+Ayg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I was wondering, is there a way i could discard all pending moderation
messages and also simultaneously add the sender's address to discard for
subsequent mails?

Regards
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Seun Ojedeji,
Federal University Oye-Ekiti
web:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
Mobile: +2348035233535
**alt email: <http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng*

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 31 00:49:06 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 15:49:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard/Ban all messages pending moderation
In-Reply-To: <CAD_dc6hVf9pup-qF94TZ4U9FZV9ejwSqkuFrUx6+MEhhMw+Ayg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD_dc6hVf9pup-qF94TZ4U9FZV9ejwSqkuFrUx6+MEhhMw+Ayg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51A7D762.1020308@msapiro.net>

On 05/30/2013 11:37 AM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering, is there a way i could discard all pending moderation
> messages and also simultaneously add the sender's address to discard for
> subsequent mails?


If there aren't too many, it should be easy enough to go to the admindb
interface for the list and for each sender in the summary of held
messages, check the "Add xxx to one of these sender filters:" box and
select the 'Discards' radio button and finally check the 'Discard all
messages marked Defer' box and submit changes.

If there are so many that this is unwieldy, you could do this with a
withlist script. Something along the lines of the following totally
untested script:

from Mailman import mm_cfg
def discard(mlist):
    for id in mlist.GetHeldMessageIds():
        sender = mlist.GetRecord(id)[1]
        if sender not in mlist.discard_these_nonmembers:
            mlist.discard_these_nonmembers.append(sender)
        mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD)


See 'bin/withlist --help' for what to do with this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From seun.ojedeji at gmail.com  Fri May 31 01:03:49 2013
From: seun.ojedeji at gmail.com (Seun Ojedeji)
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 00:03:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard/Ban all messages pending moderation
In-Reply-To: <51A7D762.1020308@msapiro.net>
References: <CAD_dc6hVf9pup-qF94TZ4U9FZV9ejwSqkuFrUx6+MEhhMw+Ayg@mail.gmail.com>
	<51A7D762.1020308@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAD_dc6iiuRchuQH61wa+i7kXTvU2zu1sZ2Bja+zgcP3=o9n4gA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:49 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 05/30/2013 11:37 AM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I was wondering, is there a way i could discard all pending moderation
> > messages and also simultaneously add the sender's address to discard for
> > subsequent mails?
>
>
> If there aren't too many, it should be easy enough to go to the admindb
> interface for the list and for each sender in the summary of held
> messages, check the "Add xxx to one of these sender filters:" box and
> select the 'Discards' radio button and finally check the 'Discard all
> messages marked Defer' box and submit changes.
>
> Yeah i am very much aware of this option at it works well


> If there are so many that this is unwieldy,


This is the case...and thanks for providing this script...will test it out.
;-)

Thanks!


> you could do this with a
> withlist script. Something along the lines of the following totally
> untested script:
>
> from Mailman import mm_cfg
> def discard(mlist):
>     for id in mlist.GetHeldMessageIds():
>         sender = mlist.GetRecord(id)[1]
>         if sender not in mlist.discard_these_nonmembers:
>             mlist.discard_these_nonmembers.append(sender)
>         mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD)
>
>
> See 'bin/withlist --help' for what to do with this.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Seun Ojedeji,
Federal University Oye-Ekiti
web:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
Mobile: +2348035233535
**alt email: <http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng*

From nursejanice at yahoo.com  Fri May 31 05:55:02 2013
From: nursejanice at yahoo.com (Janice Boothe)
Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 20:55:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom Pages
Message-ID: <1369972502.43749.YahooMailClassic@web121703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I am writing some custom mailman pages top fit the theme of my site.? I am stumped on setting up a custom confirm.html page.? Please advise how I do this.

From jra at baylink.com  Thu May 30 20:30:13 2013
From: jra at baylink.com (Jay Ashworth)
Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 14:30:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman 2.1 not plushack aware?
Message-ID: <5229490.6742.1369938613864.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com>

I just subscribed to the virtualgl-users list at SF, and I subscribed with
a plushacked email address, jra+vgl@

Got the confirmation email ok, of course, but when I tried to send something,
it bounced "because I'm not subscribed to the list".  I've never had that
happen before, but it's possible that I've never tried to sub a plushack
address to a Mailman list.

Does Mailman in fact not understand plushacked addresses as subscription
addresses, and that it should canonicalize them when a) checking for
duplicate subscriptions and b) accepting messages for restricted lists?

Cheers,
-- jra
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth                  Baylink                       jra at baylink.com
Designer                     The Things I Think                       RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates     http://baylink.pitas.com         2000 Land Rover DII
St Petersburg FL USA               #natog                      +1 727 647 1274

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 31 08:36:23 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 23:36:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom Pages
In-Reply-To: <1369972502.43749.YahooMailClassic@web121703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1369972502.43749.YahooMailClassic@web121703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <51A844E7.5020200@msapiro.net>

On 05/30/2013 08:55 PM, Janice Boothe wrote:
> I am writing some custom mailman pages top fit the theme of my site.  I am stumped on setting up a custom confirm.html page.  Please advise how I do this.


I'm not sure what you mean by confirm.html. If you mean the results of
going to a URL like
<http://www.example.com/mailman/confirm/list_name/some_string>, those
results are all built on the fly by the Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py script.

There is a very limited control of color. See the section "Web UI
defaults" in Mailman/Defaults.py for documentation. Beyond that any
customization has to be done in the confirm.py module itself or in
methods in Mailman/htmlformat.py.

Note that it is fairly simple to add a reference to a css style sheet to
the Document.Format() method. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-March/060881.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 31 08:43:40 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 23:43:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman 2.1 not plushack aware?
In-Reply-To: <5229490.6742.1369938613864.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com>
References: <5229490.6742.1369938613864.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com>
Message-ID: <51A8469C.7010704@msapiro.net>

On 05/30/2013 11:30 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
> I just subscribed to the virtualgl-users list at SF, and I subscribed with
> a plushacked email address, jra+vgl@


Which is fine, but then that address is the member and that's the
address you need to post from. Mailman doesn't understand that
jra+vgl at ... and jra at ... MAY be the same address (that actually depends
on your MTA/MDA).

If you want to be able to post from jra at ..., subscribe it too, set it to
no mail and maybe turn off its password reminders.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From nursejanice at yahoo.com  Fri May 31 22:26:29 2013
From: nursejanice at yahoo.com (Janice Boothe)
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 13:26:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom Pages
In-Reply-To: <51A844E7.5020200@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1370031989.33667.YahooMailClassic@web121702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Yes I do mean that.? I used confirm.html since that is the naming convention used to create custom pages for much of the other IO of Mailman.

It seems rather odd and extremely limiting that Mailman functiuons as you describe in regards to confirm.? Most of the other pages are customizable (listinfo, etc), why in the world would the programmers make such a choice to not allow site owners to customize the confirm page?? Is this something that can be fixed in future releases as it should not be very hard to do?? While I do like very much the functionality of Mailman, the default interface leaves a whole lot to be desired and lead to a very unprofessional look and feel when added to a site.


--- On Thu, 5/30/13, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Custom Pages
To: "Janice Boothe" <nursejanice at yahoo.com>
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Date: Thursday, May 30, 2013, 11:36 PM

On 05/30/2013 08:55 PM, Janice Boothe wrote:
> I am writing some custom mailman pages top fit the theme of my site.? I am stumped on setting up a custom confirm.html page.? Please advise how I do this.


I'm not sure what you mean by confirm.html. If you mean the results of
going to a URL like
<http://www.example.com/mailman/confirm/list_name/some_string>, those
results are all built on the fly by the Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py script.

There is a very limited control of color. See the section "Web UI
defaults" in Mailman/Defaults.py for documentation. Beyond that any
customization has to be done in the confirm.py module itself or in
methods in Mailman/htmlformat.py.

Note that it is fairly simple to add a reference to a css style sheet to
the Document.Format() method. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-March/060881.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>? ? ? ? The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California? ? better use your sense - B. Dylan