From shengchieh at linuxmail.org  Sun Dec  1 04:48:03 2013
From: shengchieh at linuxmail.org (R. Sheng-Chieh Cheng)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 22:48:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can Mailman be installed on a free python webhost?
Message-ID: <20131201034803.246910@gmx.com>

Hi Mailman geeks

I am hoping to install a discussion mailing list. Mailman has
what I want, but I question whether I can use Mailman. I do NOT
have a mail server. And our group needs to live cheaply, so
we are not buying one. There are a few free python webhosts.
But I question whether I could install Mailman since the
installation instruction says
 1) add mailman to /etc/passwd
 2) add mailman to /etc/group
 3) install on /usr/local/mailman
I doubt a free webhost would let me do this.

Has anyone added Mailman to a free webhost? If so, which one?
And what workaround used?

If positive, can I assume that I don't need to know python -
just use ./configure & make install .

If negative, can you suggest another python, PHP, and/or Perl
(script) discussion mailing list that I could load unto a free
webhost's website?

Thank in advanced for your hlelp.

Sheng-Chieh

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec  1 20:03:04 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 11:03:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can Mailman be installed on a free python
	webhost?
In-Reply-To: <20131201034803.246910@gmx.com>
References: <20131201034803.246910@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <529B87E8.7050505@msapiro.net>

On 11/30/2013 07:48 PM, R. Sheng-Chieh Cheng wrote:
> 
> I am hoping to install a discussion mailing list. Mailman has
> what I want, but I question whether I can use Mailman. I do NOT
> have a mail server. And our group needs to live cheaply, so
> we are not buying one. There are a few free python webhosts.
> But I question whether I could install Mailman since the
> installation instruction says
>  1) add mailman to /etc/passwd
>  2) add mailman to /etc/group
>  3) install on /usr/local/mailman
> I doubt a free webhost would let me do this.


These things can be worked around, but there are other issues that are
more problematic.


> If positive, can I assume that I don't need to know python -
> just use ./configure & make install .


Yes, and no. you can just run ./configure with appropriate options.
You'll need --prefix=, --with-username=, --with-groupname=,
--with-cgi-gid= and --with-mail-gid=,  to work around the above. Also,
--with-mailhost= and --with-urlhost= are useful, but they can be
overridden along with most other defaults in mm_cfg.py. This is where
Python knowledge can be useful.  mm_cfg.py is where you put all your
local configuration stuff to override settings in Defaults.py. For the
most part it is straightforward

OPTION = value

stuff, but it is actually Python source and must obey Python syntax and
semantics.

Depending on what you can actually do on your hosted server, your major
stumbling blocks will probably be

1) setting up incoming mail delivery to Mailman
2) setting up the web server for Mailman

and possibly

3) delivering outbound mail from Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From william.mcqueen at alumni.utoronto.ca  Sun Dec  1 21:10:33 2013
From: william.mcqueen at alumni.utoronto.ca (William McQueen)
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2013 15:10:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Use of Invitations to join a list
Message-ID: <CAHiX_dSzojfDVqmVJ5ZyTLuXf92BAEWzaP8bc8eRk-_PsWko+g@mail.gmail.com>

Where will I find an outline of how the invitation process works. To wit,
how do I know an invitation has been accepted.

Cheers and thanks
Bill McQueen
Toronto

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec  1 21:25:03 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 12:25:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Use of Invitations to join a list
In-Reply-To: <CAHiX_dSzojfDVqmVJ5ZyTLuXf92BAEWzaP8bc8eRk-_PsWko+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHiX_dSzojfDVqmVJ5ZyTLuXf92BAEWzaP8bc8eRk-_PsWko+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <529B9B1F.7090904@msapiro.net>

On 12/01/2013 12:10 PM, William McQueen wrote:
> Where will I find an outline of how the invitation process works. To wit,
> how do I know an invitation has been accepted.


When the invitation is accepted, Mailman's subscribe log will show the
subscription, and if admin_notify_mchanges is Yes, the admin will
receive a notice of the subscription.

The script at <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_pending> can be used
to see if the invitation is still pending.

The actual details are:

1) The invitation is sent and a pending subscription is entered waiting
user confirmation. This is marked as an invitation so it will bypass
admin approval if any when the user confirms.

2) the user confirms and is subscribed normally.

or

2) the user follows the confirm link and cancels the request.

or

2) the invitation expires after PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Dec  2 04:11:29 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 12:11:29 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can Mailman be installed on a free python webhost?
In-Reply-To: <20131201034803.246910@gmx.com>
References: <20131201034803.246910@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <87wqjoaqvy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

R. Sheng-Chieh Cheng writes:

Everything Mark says is true and authoritative.  If something I say
seems to conflict with Mark, either you don't understand (feel free to
ask!) or Mark's right and I'm wrong.  Like all rules, there are
exceptions -- but I'm not aware of any.<wink/>

 > But I question whether I could install Mailman since the
 > installation instruction says
 >  1) add mailman to /etc/passwd
 >  2) add mailman to /etc/group

You'd have to ask your host if you can do this.  I think your best bet
would be to shop around for hosts that already provide Mailman.
Second line of attack would be to ask for the necessary privileges or
for the host admin to perform the operations for you (unlikely, since
the host is free).

However, as Mark says, there are more important difficulties if you
don't have "root".  Specifically, the mail system is one of the most
sensitive components of an Internet host, and you need to change its
routing tables to give Mailman a routable mail address.  It's possible
to work around this, but it would require setting up a "personal"
account for each Mailman service (post, subscribe, owner, and several
more) that needs a mailbox, which is messy and insecure.  If I were a
web host I would only allow those I would trust with direct access to
the mail system to set up any mailing list.

 >  3) install on /usr/local/mailman

Installing under /usr/local is just the most common way to do this.
The advantage is that an experienced admin who takes over for you can
find Mailman's "stuff" can look in /usr/lib/mailman and
/var/lib/mailman first, and/or the /usr/local equivalents.

Mailman doesn't require it, an admin with the needed privilege could
put it in /home/mailman, or anybody can put it in ~/services/Mailman,
or whatever.  However, putting it under a real user's home directory
is relatively insecure unless that user is quite skilled in security
*and* consistently applies those skills to her account.

 > I doubt a free webhost would let me do this.
 > 
 > Has anyone added Mailman to a free webhost? If so, which one?
 > And what workaround used?
 > 
 > If positive, can I assume that I don't need to know python -
 > just use ./configure & make install .

I am confused.  I believe there are free webhosting services that
offer Mailman as one of their services.[1]  If you're not interested
in programming Python, maybe you could use one of those.

 > If negative, can you suggest another python, PHP, and/or Perl
 > (script) discussion mailing list that I could load unto a free
 > webhost's website?

All reasonably featureful mailing list managers have similar
requirements with respect to mailboxes and access to the mail system's
routing function.  It is those requirements that imply the existence
of the Mailman user and group, and you're not going to find it easy to
work around them.

If you really need to restrict yourself to the "web" services of the
host, I'm afraid you probably have to give up on having a featureful
mailing list manager, and should consider using a web forum instead.

I don't have any recommendations there (I'm an old fogey who detests
web forums in my own daily life, though I'm not so conservative I
can't recognize that others might find them useful<wink/>).


Footnotes: 
[1]  There are certainly software development hosts that do
SourceForge and GNU Savannah immediately come to mind.  Unless your
project develops open source software you probably wouldn't be allowed
to use those hosts, but there are probably others that would host your
group.


From shengchieh at linuxmail.org  Mon Dec  2 06:07:20 2013
From: shengchieh at linuxmail.org (R. Sheng-Chieh Cheng)
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 00:07:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can Mailman be installed on a free python
	webhost?
Message-ID: <20131202050721.147190@gmx.com>

Sorry Stephen, I sent just to you, not the group.
----- Original Message -----
From: R. Sheng-Chieh Cheng
Sent: 12/01/13 09:05 PM
To: Stephen J. Turnbull
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Can Mailman be installed on a free python webhost?

Stephen & Mark, thank you for replying.

With all the hack and permission's problem, I decided not to try to install Mailman
anywhere. I am not a geek and know no python, so I am not going to start.
 > I am confused. I believe there are free webhosting services that > offer Mailman as one of their services.[1] If you're not interested > in programming Python, maybe you could use one of those. I will check out free Mailman host(s). If you have any recommendation, I would appreciate hearing. > If you really need to restrict yourself to the "web" services of the > host, I'm afraid you probably have to give up on having a featureful > mailing list manager, and should consider using a web forum instead. I am doing dual strategy - looking at forums as well as mailing lists. FluxBB looks good for our needs - email subscription. The trouble is the people in this group (former patrons of a therapetic swimming pool - alot of seniors) are not tech-savvy. Let make this way - here's their computer level. I know where the power button. I know that slot is a media drive, not a cup holder. Hmmm. For email, I double-click this icon. Use it to read and write stuffs. I really want to get the group on mailing list than a forum - so much easier for them. Hard to teach an old dog a new trick. Sheng-Chieh

From rb211 at tds.net  Mon Dec  2 12:13:27 2013
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 06:13:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can Mailman be installed on a free python
	webhost?
In-Reply-To: <20131202050721.147190@gmx.com>
References: <20131202050721.147190@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <201312020613.28180.rb211@tds.net>

On Monday 02 December 2013, R. Sheng-Chieh Cheng wrote:
> With all the hack and permission's problem, I decided not to try to
> install Mailman anywhere. I am not a geek and know no python, so I am not
> going to start.

Not free, but if you can afford $35 per year. Do not mind Mailman via cPanel 
(there are slight differences...) and can live with a strict 1,000 email per 
hour limit. For example, a discusion list with 100 members (assuming none 
are on digest) will hit the limit at 10 posts in one hour. Then check out 
the 'Tiny' package at A Small Orange http://asmallorange.com/hosting/

Very limited space for archives but should suffice for a text only list. They 
have larger plans with more space / bandwidth for more money but those also 
have the same 1,000 emails per hour limit.
-- 
William

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec  3 00:53:06 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 15:53:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What determines mailman webui login duration?
In-Reply-To: <87fvqzgxmi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <87fvqzgxmi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <529D1D62.4090102@msapiro.net>

On Thu Nov 14, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Which for Mailman 2 appears to be AUTHENTICATION_COOKIE_LIFETIME:
> 
> # If the following is set to a non-zero value, web authentication
> # cookies will
> # expire that many seconds following their last use.
> AUTHENTICATION_COOKIE_LIFETIME = 0
> 
> from Defaults.py.in.


The above was added in Mailman 2.1.15, but there was a bug in that only
'user' cookies were refreshed with each use, so if
AUTHENTICATION_COOKIE_LIFETIME was non-zero, 'admin', 'moderator', etc.
cookies would expire that many seconds after being initially set instead
of after their last use.

This is fixed for the next release. See
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1257112> for the bug report and
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1438>
for the fix.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Daryl.Weir at lis.state.oh.us  Tue Dec  3 16:56:50 2013
From: Daryl.Weir at lis.state.oh.us (Daryl.Weir at lis.state.oh.us)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 10:56:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Difference between version 2.1.12 and 2.1.13
Message-ID: <87B9BB90FC6C5F44BA12E3162729F0101F88ABAF45@guild>

Hi:

I looked for the answer to this question on a variety of websites and forums but no luck.

We have two installations of mailman - list A uses version 2.1.12 and list B uses version 2.1.13. Both are setup to be used as oneway annoucement lists.

All options for both lists are identical including setting send_reminders = No and changing listinfo.html and options.html to have the same html.

Our users go to the general list information page, enter a subscriber's email address in the unsubscribe box and click the Unsubscribe or edit options button. For both lists, this takes them to the <domainname>/mailman/options/<listname> page. At this point, the pages have very different content on them.

List A - version 2.1.12 - shows password reset, Unsubscribe and password reminder options - also, the bottom of the page has the standard footer with the Mailman and Python logos as well as several links including one to the admin interface.

List B - version 2.1.13 - shows Unsubscribe option and nothing else - there is no footer and nothing about passwords

I've been trying to figure out what I can change in 2.1.12 to have it match 2.1.13 on the options.html page but can't find anything.

Does anyone know ..... are these differences stemming from the Mailman version? Is there some place else I need to be looking?

Any input on this would be most appreciated.

Daryl Weir

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec  3 17:49:25 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2013 08:49:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Difference between version 2.1.12 and 2.1.13
In-Reply-To: <87B9BB90FC6C5F44BA12E3162729F0101F88ABAF45@guild>
References: <87B9BB90FC6C5F44BA12E3162729F0101F88ABAF45@guild>
Message-ID: <529E0B95.9010905@msapiro.net>

On 12/03/2013 07:56 AM, Daryl.Weir at lis.state.oh.us wrote:
> 
> List A - version 2.1.12 - shows password reset, Unsubscribe and password reminder options - also, the bottom of the page has the standard footer with the Mailman and Python logos as well as several links including one to the admin interface.
> 
> List B - version 2.1.13 - shows Unsubscribe option and nothing else - there is no footer and nothing about passwords
> 
> I've been trying to figure out what I can change in 2.1.12 to have it match 2.1.13 on the options.html page but can't find anything.


This has nothing to do with 2.1.12 vs. 2.1.13. It appears that the code
which generates this page has been modified in your particular 2.1.13
installation.

This page is not built from a template. It is built on the fly by the
loginpage() function in Mailman/Cgi/options.py. This has apparently been
modified in your 2.1.13 installation and you can make the same mods if
you wish to your 2.1.12 installation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov  Tue Dec  3 19:23:58 2013
From: rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov (Rosenbaum, Larry M.)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 13:23:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stack dump trying to "Approve" postings
Message-ID: <B832297B56798E4FB5CCE181942E7EC6011D4FF2CEB4@EXCHMBA.ornl.gov>

We are running mailman-2.1.12-18.el6.x86_64, python 2.6.6, RHEL6. Sometimes when a moderator tries to approve postings, he gets this error:

"Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12
We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs."

I have checked the traceback and found the following. What does it mean, and how do we fix it?

Dec 03 09:48:57 2013 admin(20706): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(20706): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.12 -----]
admin(20706): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(20706): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(20706):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
admin(20706):     main()
admin(20706):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 165, in main
admin(20706):     process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata)
admin(20706):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 716, in process_form
admin(20706):     forward, forwardaddr)
admin(20706):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 167, in HandleRequest
admin(20706):     forward, addr)
admin(20706):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 254, in __handlepost
admin(20706):     g(msg, 1)
admin(20706): AttributeError: Generator instance has no __call__ method
admin(20706): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(20706): sys.version     =   2.6.6 (r266:84292, May 27 2013, 05:35:12)
[GCC 4.4.7 20120313 (Red Hat 4.4.7-3)]
admin(20706): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(20706): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(20706): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(20706): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(20706): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(20706): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(20706):   HTTP_COOKIE: grayhive+admin=<snip>
admin(20706):   SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.15 (Red Hat)
admin(20706):   SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admindb
admin(20706):   SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.2.15 (Red Hat) Server at email.ornl.gov Port 443</address>
admin(20706):
admin(20706):   REQUEST_METHOD: POST
admin(20706):   PATH_INFO: /grayhive
admin(20706):   HTTP_ORIGIN: https://email.ornl.gov
admin(20706):   SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(20706):   QUERY_STRING:
admin(20706):   SSL_TLS_SNI: email.ornl.gov
admin(20706):   CONTENT_LENGTH: 225
admin(20706):   HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_8_5) AppleWebKit/536.30.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.5 Safari/536.30.1
admin(20706):   HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive
admin(20706):   HTTP_REFERER: https://email.ornl.gov/mailman/admindb/grayhive
admin(20706):   SERVER_NAME: email.ornl.gov
admin(20706):   REMOTE_ADDR: 160.91.240.104
admin(20706):   PATH_TRANSLATED: /var/www/html/grayhive
admin(20706):   SERVER_PORT: 443
admin(20706):   SERVER_ADDR: 160.91.4.92
admin(20706):   DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/html
admin(20706):   PYTHONPATH: /usr/lib/mailman
admin(20706):   SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb
admin(20706):   SERVER_ADMIN: root at localhost
admin(20706):   HTTP_DNT: 1
admin(20706):   HTTP_HOST: email.ornl.gov
admin(20706):   HTTPS: on
admin(20706):   REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admindb/grayhive
admin(20706):   HTTP_ACCEPT: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
admin(20706):   GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(20706):   REMOTE_PORT: 52988
admin(20706):   HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us
admin(20706):   CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
admin(20706):   HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate


From rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov  Tue Dec  3 21:03:55 2013
From: rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov (Rosenbaum, Larry M.)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 15:03:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stack dump trying to "Approve" postings
In-Reply-To: <B832297B56798E4FB5CCE181942E7EC6011D4FF2CEB4@EXCHMBA.ornl.gov>
References: <B832297B56798E4FB5CCE181942E7EC6011D4FF2CEB4@EXCHMBA.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <B832297B56798E4FB5CCE181942E7EC6011D4FF2CF00@EXCHMBA.ornl.gov>

One more note: it appears that the error only occurs if "Preserve messages for the site administrator" is checked.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
> bounces+rosenbaumlm=ornl.gov at python.org] On Behalf Of Rosenbaum, Larry M.
> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 1:24 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stack dump trying to "Approve" postings
> 
> We are running mailman-2.1.12-18.el6.x86_64, python 2.6.6, RHEL6.
> Sometimes when a moderator tries to approve postings, he gets this error:
> 
> "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12
> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
> 
> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
> traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
> the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs."
> 
> I have checked the traceback and found the following. What does it mean,
> and how do we fix it?
> 
> Dec 03 09:48:57 2013 admin(20706):
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> admin(20706): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.12 -----]
> admin(20706): [----- Traceback ------]
> admin(20706): Traceback (most recent call last):
> admin(20706):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in
> run_main
> admin(20706):     main()
> admin(20706):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 165,
> in main
> admin(20706):     process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata)
> admin(20706):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 716,
> in process_form
> admin(20706):     forward, forwardaddr)
> admin(20706):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 167, in
> HandleRequest
> admin(20706):     forward, addr)
> admin(20706):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 254, in
> __handlepost
> admin(20706):     g(msg, 1)
> admin(20706): AttributeError: Generator instance has no __call__ method
> admin(20706): [----- Python Information -----]
> admin(20706): sys.version     =   2.6.6 (r266:84292, May 27 2013,
> 05:35:12)
> [GCC 4.4.7 20120313 (Red Hat 4.4.7-3)]
> admin(20706): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
> admin(20706): sys.prefix      =   /usr
> admin(20706): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
> admin(20706): sys.path        =   /usr
> admin(20706): sys.platform    =   linux2
> admin(20706): [----- Environment Variables -----]
> admin(20706):   HTTP_COOKIE: grayhive+admin=<snip>
> admin(20706):   SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.15 (Red Hat)
> admin(20706):   SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admindb
> admin(20706):   SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.2.15 (Red Hat) Server
> at email.ornl.gov Port 443</address>
> admin(20706):
> admin(20706):   REQUEST_METHOD: POST
> admin(20706):   PATH_INFO: /grayhive
> admin(20706):   HTTP_ORIGIN: https://email.ornl.gov
> admin(20706):   SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
> admin(20706):   QUERY_STRING:
> admin(20706):   SSL_TLS_SNI: email.ornl.gov
> admin(20706):   CONTENT_LENGTH: 225
> admin(20706):   HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X
> 10_8_5) AppleWebKit/536.30.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.5
> Safari/536.30.1
> admin(20706):   HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive
> admin(20706):   HTTP_REFERER:
> https://email.ornl.gov/mailman/admindb/grayhive
> admin(20706):   SERVER_NAME: email.ornl.gov
> admin(20706):   REMOTE_ADDR: 160.91.240.104
> admin(20706):   PATH_TRANSLATED: /var/www/html/grayhive
> admin(20706):   SERVER_PORT: 443
> admin(20706):   SERVER_ADDR: 160.91.4.92
> admin(20706):   DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/html
> admin(20706):   PYTHONPATH: /usr/lib/mailman
> admin(20706):   SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb
> admin(20706):   SERVER_ADMIN: root at localhost
> admin(20706):   HTTP_DNT: 1
> admin(20706):   HTTP_HOST: email.ornl.gov
> admin(20706):   HTTPS: on
> admin(20706):   REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admindb/grayhive
> admin(20706):   HTTP_ACCEPT:
> text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
> admin(20706):   GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
> admin(20706):   REMOTE_PORT: 52988
> admin(20706):   HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us
> admin(20706):   CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
> admin(20706):   HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
> users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/rosenbaumlm%40ornl.gov

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec  4 02:18:32 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2013 17:18:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stack dump trying to "Approve" postings
In-Reply-To: <B832297B56798E4FB5CCE181942E7EC6011D4FF2CEB4@EXCHMBA.ornl.gov>
References: <B832297B56798E4FB5CCE181942E7EC6011D4FF2CEB4@EXCHMBA.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <529E82E8.6040507@msapiro.net>

On 12/03/2013 10:23 AM, Rosenbaum, Larry M. wrote:
> 
> I have checked the traceback and found the following. What does it mean, and how do we fix it?
> 
> Dec 03 09:48:57 2013 admin(20706): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> admin(20706): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.12 -----]
> admin(20706): [----- Traceback ------]
...
> admin(20706):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 254, in __handlepost
> admin(20706):     g(msg, 1)
> admin(20706): AttributeError: Generator instance has no __call__ method
> admin(20706): [----- Python Information -----]
> admin(20706): sys.version     =   2.6.6 (r266:84292, May 27 2013, 05:35:12)
> [GCC 4.4.7 20120313 (Red Hat 4.4.7-3)]


Mailman 2.1.12 is not compatible with Python 2.6+. This was fixed in 2.1.13.

This particular issue was fixed by this patch:

=== modified file 'Mailman/ListAdmin.py'
--- Mailman/ListAdmin.py	2008-09-21 18:59:44 +0000
+++ Mailman/ListAdmin.py	2009-08-01 00:40:36 +0000
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-# Copyright (C) 1998-2008 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
+# Copyright (C) 1998-2009 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
 #
 # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
 # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
@@ -202,7 +202,7 @@
                     cPickle.dump(msg, fp, 1)
                 else:
                     g = Generator(fp)
-                    g(msg, 1)
+                    g.flatten(msg, 1)
                 fp.flush()
                 os.fsync(fp.fileno())
             finally:
@@ -251,7 +251,7 @@
             outfp = open(outpath, 'w')
             try:
                 g = Generator(outfp)
-                g(msg, 1)
+                g.flatten(msg, 1)
             finally:
                 outfp.close()
         # Now handle updates to the database


If RedHat EL6 is packaging Mailman 2.1.12 with Python 2.6.6, this is a
RedHat issue. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From javad at irannopendar.com  Wed Dec  4 02:06:51 2013
From: javad at irannopendar.com (Javad Hoseini-Nopendar)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 04:36:51 +0330
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing monthly membership reminder
Message-ID: <004301cef08d$59ebbe80$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>

Hello
I have a mailing list. In the settings of the mailing list, I selected "No" for "Sending monthly password reminder", but the mailing list still sends membership reminders to the members in the beginning of each month. What should I do to deactivate sending that email? 

Thank you


From mark at bradakis.com  Wed Dec  4 04:03:40 2013
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2013 20:03:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing monthly membership reminder
In-Reply-To: <004301cef08d$59ebbe80$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
References: <004301cef08d$59ebbe80$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
Message-ID: <529E9B8C.5090906@bradakis.com>

Javad Hoseini-Nopendar wrote:
> Hello
> I have a mailing list. In the settings of the mailing list, I selected "No" for "Sending monthly password reminder", but the mailing list still sends membership reminders to the members in the beginning of each month. What should I do to deactivate sending that email?
>

You need to edit the mailman crontab, which is what controls this behavior.

mjb.



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec  4 05:29:22 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2013 20:29:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing monthly membership reminder
In-Reply-To: <529E9B8C.5090906@bradakis.com>
References: <004301cef08d$59ebbe80$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
 <529E9B8C.5090906@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <529EAFA2.308@msapiro.net>

On 12/03/2013 07:03 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote:
> Javad Hoseini-Nopendar wrote:
>> Hello
>> I have a mailing list. In the settings of the mailing list, I selected
>> "No" for "Sending monthly password reminder", but the mailing list
>> still sends membership reminders to the members in the beginning of
>> each month. What should I do to deactivate sending that email?


If the list's General Options -> send_reminders setting is No, no
monthly reminders should be sent for THAT LIST. Reminders may still be
sent for other list's in the installation for which send_reminders is Yes.


> You need to edit the mailman crontab, which is what controls this behavior.


It you remove the cron/mailpasswds entry from Mailman's crontab, no
monthly reminders will be sent at all.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From cczdao at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk  Thu Dec  5 14:31:24 2013
From: cczdao at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk (David Osborne)
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 13:31:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under attack
In-Reply-To: <CAERh8-=PD1bd+57atFEafmPT+_s2aVoqa+zyXi4bi9JkmSw55g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAERh8-=PD1bd+57atFEafmPT+_s2aVoqa+zyXi4bi9JkmSw55g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52A0802C.7010304@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>

On 14/11/13 18:32, Fil wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I just noticed a lot of backscatter spam, my Mailman installation was
> starting to send subscription verifications to a lot of
> ALLCAPS at hotmail.comaddresses, on a test list that no one is supposed
> to be using.
>
> I traced it to this site :
>
> http://4478.a.hostable.me/vinabot/bommail/Boom.html
>
> if you view source you will see that it opens a lot of iframes on 284
> Mailman installations, and tries to auto-subscribe its victims email
> adresses to different lists (392 in total).
>
> I have put the page HTML source as well as the list of targeted servers and
> lists in the attached zip file.
>
> Do you know how to stop this efficiently?
>
> -- Fil

One of our lists was being spammed with subscription requests and I 
eventually found the cause: the URL /mailman/subscribe was being 
requested a large number of times from a variety of IP addresses. These 
were logged by Apache to its access log (/var/log/httpd/access_log* on 
our CentOS 6 server running Mailman 2.1.14 built from source and the 
standard Apache httpd package). I searched the httpd logs for the last 
month to find the successful requests for /mailman/subscribe (with a 200 
return code), picking out the referral URL and omitting valid requests 
containing part of our domain (nottingham), using the following pipeline:

grep 'mailman.subscribe.* 200 ' access_log* | sed 's/ 200 /#/' | cut 
-d'#' -f2 | cut -d' ' -f2 | grep -v nottingham | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn

The results were sorted in descending order of number of matches, so the 
worst offenders were at the top, including 5487 requests from 
http://vipserver88.com/member//check/boom/ and 1659 requests from 
http://4478.a.hostable.me/vinabot/bommail/Boom.html, which Fil mentioned 
above.

After realising that I don't want the Mailman subscribe URL to be called 
from a referring page which is not ours, I used the technique for 
preventing hotlinking of images from a website 
(http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/rewrite/access.html#blocked-inline-images) 
and added this to the file /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf

# Prevent subscription request spam
SetEnvIf Referer lists\.example\.com localreferer
<Location /mailman/subscribe>
     Order deny,allow
     Deny from all
     Allow from env=localreferer
</Location>

Replace 'lists\.example\.com' with the FQDN of your Mailman server.
Now all the off-site /mailman/subscribe requests get a 403 forbidden 
return code.

Maybe this protection of /mailman/subscribe should be a standard part of 
the Apache configuration?

Are there any other Mailman URLs potentially open to misuse which ought 
to be similarly protected?

David

-- 
David Osborne
Senior Systems Development Officer
Systems and Security Team, Information Services
University of Nottingham

From garyp at harvard-diggins.org  Thu Dec  5 15:42:25 2013
From: garyp at harvard-diggins.org (Gary Lee Phillips)
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 08:42:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing monthly membership reminder
In-Reply-To: <mailman.38.1386154803.452.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.38.1386154803.452.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <52A090D1.7090202@harvard-diggins.org>

Oddly enough, I have the opposite problem. We do want monthly reminders, 
but everyone is getting two identical reminder messages each month. How 
do I limit this to a single reminder without turning off reminders 
completely?

--
   Gary Lee Phillips
   Harvard Diggins Library
   815-943-4671

"Avoid fruits and nuts. You are what you eat."



From bsfinkel at att.net  Thu Dec  5 17:41:48 2013
From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S. Finkel)
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 10:41:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing monthly membership reminder
In-Reply-To: <52A090D1.7090202@harvard-diggins.org>
References: <mailman.38.1386154803.452.mailman-users@python.org>
 <52A090D1.7090202@harvard-diggins.org>
Message-ID: <52A0ACCC.2050304@att.net>

On 12/5/2013 8:42 AM, Gary Lee Phillips wrote:
> Oddly enough, I have the opposite problem. We do want monthly reminders,
> but everyone is getting two identical reminder messages each month. How
> do I limit this to a single reminder without turning off reminders
> completely?
>
> --
>    Gary Lee Phillips
>    Harvard Diggins Library
>    815-943-4671
>
> "Avoid fruits and nuts. You are what you eat."

My guess is that you have two monthly crons running.
They may not be running from the same crontab file;
one may be running from Mailman's and one from the
system crontab.

--Barry Finkel

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec  5 17:46:01 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 08:46:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing monthly membership reminder
In-Reply-To: <52A090D1.7090202@harvard-diggins.org>
References: <mailman.38.1386154803.452.mailman-users@python.org>
 <52A090D1.7090202@harvard-diggins.org>
Message-ID: <52A0ADC9.3080707@msapiro.net>

On 12/05/2013 06:42 AM, Gary Lee Phillips wrote:
> Oddly enough, I have the opposite problem. We do want monthly reminders,
> but everyone is getting two identical reminder messages each month. How
> do I limit this to a single reminder without turning off reminders
> completely?


The most likely cause of this is two Mailman crontabs, one system
crontab somewhere like /etc/cron.d/mailman and a mailman user crontab
somewhere like /var/spool/cron/mailman. Thus, all the mailman crons are
run twice.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From fholson at cohousing.org  Fri Dec  6 16:01:59 2013
From: fholson at cohousing.org (Fred H Olson)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 09:01:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new Gmail inbox & MM subscribe
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1312060833400.15107@web02.tigertech.net>

With a new subscriber I recently tracked down a problem with
"the new Gmail inbox" introduced in about July 2013 and the Mailman
subscription process.  MM Verify and Welcome messages and such can
be filtered into the "Promotions" Tab (in my experiment) so they do not
show up in the new Gmail inbox making it difficult to respond to them
and appear to some users that they did not arrive. I suspect they
are being filtered (by default ?).

The messages can be seen by clicking on "All Mail" on the left
but apparently "All Mail" is not always or has not always been an option
on the left according the a page from Oct 2013 that tells how to get it
if you dont have it:

http://www.groovypost.com/howto/gmail-all-mail-default-inbox-view/

In my wife's account I had to put the mouse over the folders on the
left and the click on "More" to find "All Mail".  We also noticed that
the "Tabs" at the top ( "Primary", "Social" "Updates" etc) are only
shown when Inbox has been clicked (or default) but they disappear
when "All Mail" is clicked.

I plan to put a note about this in the section of the Info page...

Fred  (who is in No Mail mode on this list...)

--
Fred H. Olson  Minneapolis,MN 55411  USA        (near north Mpls)
     Email:        fholson at cohousing.org      612-588-9532
My Link Pg: http://fholson.cohousing.org         My org:
Communications for Justice -- Free, superior listserv's w/o ads

From paul at fpen.org  Fri Dec  6 16:48:39 2013
From: paul at fpen.org (Paul Kleeberg)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 09:48:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apostrophe in a user's email
Message-ID: <A53DA9EB-4C8E-4622-8CE8-145A67DC5346@fpen.org>

We are trying to subscribe a user who has an apostrophe in their email address to a list using the web interface and get the message: ?Hostile address (illegal characters)?.  Suggestions as to how we proceed.  (For some reason, the e-mail commands do not seem to be responding - was going to try using that but that is a separate issue)

Paul
--
Paul Kleeberg
7811 128th Street West
Apple Valley, MN 55124
952-686-7734
paul at fpen.org



From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Dec  6 17:55:59 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2013 01:55:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Apostrophe in a user's email
In-Reply-To: <A53DA9EB-4C8E-4622-8CE8-145A67DC5346@fpen.org>
References: <A53DA9EB-4C8E-4622-8CE8-145A67DC5346@fpen.org>
Message-ID: <87wqjh3om8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Paul Kleeberg writes:

 > We are trying to subscribe a user who has an apostrophe in their
 > email address to a list using the web interface and get the
 > message: ?Hostile address (illegal characters)?.

I assume the apostrophe is in the mailbox (user account) part of the
address.[1]

My reading of RFC 5322 is that ASCII apostrophe is perfectly legal in
the mailbox part (but it is late, I may have missed something ;-).
First, confirm that the apostrophe is an ASCII apostrophe (0x27),
*not* a single quote (Unicode U+2019, CP1252 0x92) or prime (Unicode
U+2032).  If it is something else, change it to the apostrophe and
things should work.

If it already is an ASCII apostrophe, you'll probably need to change
the Mailman code, preferably to warn but not error in that case.  I
don't know where that code is, though, somebody else should be able to
tell you.

Steve


Footnotes: 
[1]  If not, RFC 952 rules:

   1. A "name" (Net, Host, Gateway, or Domain name) is a text string up
   to 24 characters drawn from the alphabet (A-Z), digits (0-9), minus
   sign (-), and period (.).  Note that periods are only allowed when
   they serve to delimit components of "domain style names". (See
   RFC-921, "Domain Name System Implementation Schedule", for
   background). No blank or space characters are permitted as part of a
   name. No distinction is made between upper and lower case.  The first
   character must be an alpha character.


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec  6 18:03:57 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2013 09:03:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apostrophe in a user's email
In-Reply-To: <A53DA9EB-4C8E-4622-8CE8-145A67DC5346@fpen.org>
References: <A53DA9EB-4C8E-4622-8CE8-145A67DC5346@fpen.org>
Message-ID: <52A2037D.6070801@msapiro.net>

On 12/06/2013 07:48 AM, Paul Kleeberg wrote:
> We are trying to subscribe a user who has an apostrophe in their email address to a list using the web interface and get the message: ?Hostile address (illegal characters)?.  Suggestions as to how we proceed.  (For some reason, the e-mail commands do not seem to be responding - was going to try using that but that is a separate issue)


Where in the address is the apostrophe? If it is in the local part (left
of the @), all recent versions of Mailman should be accepting it. If it
is in the domain, it is not a valid domain name.

If the apostrophe is in the local part, and mailman is calling it
hostile, perhaps it is being entered as a right or left single quote
instead of an apostrophe. If not, what Mailman version is it?

If the apostrophe is in the domain, the address is not RFC 821/2821/5321
compliant and is probably not actually deliverable.

The actual characters which are (dis)allowed are defined by (from
Mailman/Utils.py)

_badchars = re.compile(r'[][()<>|:;^,\\"\000-\037\177-\377]')
# Strictly speaking, some of the above are allowed in quoted local
parts, but
# this can open the door to certain web exploits so we don't allow them.
# Only characters allowed in domain parts.
_valid_domain = re.compile('[-a-z0-9]', re.IGNORECASE)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dave at fiteyes.com  Fri Dec  6 18:34:05 2013
From: dave at fiteyes.com (David)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 12:34:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding a new (second) domain to an existing mailman
	server?
Message-ID: <CAH=dxU7OJ-LT2M1Ds8D+wi_YMm=BGBsR3+jLHupSBx0LtMw3Qg@mail.gmail.com>

I did a search on this topic and came up with this one hit:
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-November/063886.html
However, that wasn't enough help to answer my questions.

We have a mailman server that was dedicated to a single domain and set up
with the intention that this would never change. Now, I would like to add a
second independent domain and create a new mailman list.

In addition to the basic mailman how-to steps, I suspect I'll have
questions that probably relate to apache and postfix. Is there a guide that
covers all of this?

Thanks!

David

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec  6 19:00:22 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:00:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding a new (second) domain to an existing
 mailman server?
In-Reply-To: <CAH=dxU7OJ-LT2M1Ds8D+wi_YMm=BGBsR3+jLHupSBx0LtMw3Qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH=dxU7OJ-LT2M1Ds8D+wi_YMm=BGBsR3+jLHupSBx0LtMw3Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52A210B6.8010207@msapiro.net>

On 12/06/2013 09:34 AM, David wrote:
> 
> We have a mailman server that was dedicated to a single domain and set up
> with the intention that this would never change. Now, I would like to add a
> second independent domain and create a new mailman list.
> 
> In addition to the basic mailman how-to steps, I suspect I'll have
> questions that probably relate to apache and postfix. Is there a guide that
> covers all of this?


If your Mailman is installed from source, see
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html>, in particular
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-integration.html> and
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html>.

If your Mailman is installed from a package or uses some third party
delivery module like postfix_to_mailman.py, see
<http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From christopherh40 at gmail.com  Sun Dec  8 18:11:48 2013
From: christopherh40 at gmail.com (Chris H)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2013 17:11:48 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Introduction
Message-ID: <52A4A854.40502@gmail.com>

Hello all, this is Chris here.
I have just joined this list.
I am currently trying moderation on a list hosted by Mailman, and things 
are going well.
I currently moderate a few groups over at Yahoo, and am researching into 
mass transferring all of them to Mailman.
In case this helps I am a Windows 7 64 bit user but I also use iOS and Os X.
No mad rush, but any help on this matter will be greatly appreciated. 
Thank you so much.
Kind regards
Chris.

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Sun Dec  8 19:52:23 2013
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 18:52:23 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <52A4A854.40502@gmail.com>
References: <52A4A854.40502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97856231e00041bcbbd87b730aaf8f1d@DBXPR04MB047.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Chris,

>I currently moderate a few groups over at Yahoo, and am researching into mass transferring all of them to Mailman.

The person who runs the Mailman site should be able to give you more help with this, but essentially you would need to grab a list of subscribers, then use the mass-subscription option in the Mailman web interface to get them into Mailman.  You will unfortunately lose the digest settings of the subscribers, so you would need to get them to set this back again.  Furthermore, you would lose any other information such as list archives stored in Yahoo.

If using IOS, there is an app for moderating Mailman lists available.

Hope this helps.
Andrew.

From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Mon Dec  9 00:35:53 2013
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2013 18:35:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <97856231e00041bcbbd87b730aaf8f1d@DBXPR04MB047.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <52A4A854.40502@gmail.com>
 <97856231e00041bcbbd87b730aaf8f1d@DBXPR04MB047.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <52A50259.5080503@wingfoot.org>

On 12/8/13, 1:52 PM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
> Furthermore, you would lose any other information such as list
> archives stored in Yahoo.


...Unless you're snazzy with a system that runs Perl and you can run
Yahoo2mbox to export the archives.

Best,
--Glenn

From ssokol at ix.netcom.com  Mon Dec  9 02:05:15 2013
From: ssokol at ix.netcom.com (Steve Sokol)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 20:05:15 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Introduction
Message-ID: <4535076.1386551115593.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Or if you have a member with unlimited disk capacity and so you can load it all to your own system.

Steve



-----Original Message-----
>From: Glenn Sieb <ges+lists at wingfoot.org>
>Sent: Dec 8, 2013 6:35 PM
>To: "mailman-users at python.org" <mailman-users at python.org>
>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Introduction
>
>On 12/8/13, 1:52 PM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>> Furthermore, you would lose any other information such as list
>> archives stored in Yahoo.
>
>
>...Unless you're snazzy with a system that runs Perl and you can run
>Yahoo2mbox to export the archives.
>
>Best,
>--Glenn
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ssokol%40ix.netcom.com


From ssokol at ix.netcom.com  Mon Dec  9 02:14:01 2013
From: ssokol at ix.netcom.com (Steve Sokol)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 20:14:01 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Introduction
Message-ID: <273986.1386551641522.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

The question here is how do you get the list of subscribers from Yahoo.

My experience is that they are quite reluctant.

Steve



-----Original Message-----
>From: Andrew Hodgson <andrew at hodgsonfamily.org>
>Sent: Dec 8, 2013 1:52 PM
>To: Chris H <christopherh40 at gmail.com>, "Mailman-Users at python.org" <Mailman-Users at python.org>
>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Introduction
>
>Hi Chris,
>
>>I currently moderate a few groups over at Yahoo, and am researching into mass transferring all of them to Mailman.
>
>The person who runs the Mailman site should be able to give you more help with this, but essentially you would need to grab a list of subscribers, then use the mass-subscription option in the Mailman web interface to get them into Mailman.  You will unfortunately lose the digest settings of the subscribers, so you would need to get them to set this back again.  Furthermore, you would lose any other information such as list archives stored in Yahoo.
>
>If using IOS, there is an app for moderating Mailman lists available.
>
>Hope this helps.
>Andrew.
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ssokol%40ix.netcom.com


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  9 02:55:29 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2013 17:55:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <273986.1386551641522.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <273986.1386551641522.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <52A52311.4040901@msapiro.net>

On 12/08/2013 05:14 PM, Steve Sokol wrote:
> The question here is how do you get the list of subscribers from Yahoo.
> 
> My experience is that they are quite reluctant.


If you are a group owner/moderator, you can get the membership on the
group management -> Manage Members page. You can then copy/paste/edit
this list or you can write a screen scraping script to do it for you.

I once created couple of scripts to get the membership and archives of a
Topica list. They are at
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/Topica_Subscribers.py> and
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/Topica_Archives.py>, not that these
scripts will work with Yahoo groups (they might not even work with
Topica any more), but they illustrate what can be done.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Mon Dec  9 15:14:00 2013
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 14:14:00 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <52A50259.5080503@wingfoot.org>
References: <52A4A854.40502@gmail.com>
 <97856231e00041bcbbd87b730aaf8f1d@DBXPR04MB047.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>,
 <52A50259.5080503@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <820a5663a4524ec980dd356608926a2d@DBXPR04MB047.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Glenn Sieb wrote:

>On 12/8/13, 1:52 PM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>> Furthermore, you would lose any other information such as list
>> archives stored in Yahoo.

>...Unless you're snazzy with a system that runs Perl and you can run
>Yahoo2mbox to export the archives.

Looking at the home page, this no longer works either since the changes made in August of this year.

Oh well.
Andrew.

From mary.y.wang at boeing.com  Mon Dec  9 22:46:45 2013
From: mary.y.wang at boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 21:46:45 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to update the templates - listinfo.html?
Message-ID: <27F6554ED189174ABAA2EDB71E1350951AE0A795@XCH-PHX-202.sw.nos.boeing.com>

Hi,

I'd like to customize the listinfo.html file in /var/mailman/templates/en directory
I changed listinfo.html and restarted the Mailman. However, the listinfo.html webpage didn't get updated when I viewed the page in a browser.
Did I miss something?

Mailman 2.1.15  and RHEL 6.2.

Thanks in advance.

Mary Wang


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 10 03:17:35 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 18:17:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to update the templates - listinfo.html?
In-Reply-To: <27F6554ED189174ABAA2EDB71E1350951AE0A795@XCH-PHX-202.sw.nos.boeing.com>
References: <27F6554ED189174ABAA2EDB71E1350951AE0A795@XCH-PHX-202.sw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <52A679BF.3090501@msapiro.net>

On 12/09/2013 01:46 PM, Wang, Mary Y wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'd like to customize the listinfo.html file in /var/mailman/templates/en directory
> I changed listinfo.html and restarted the Mailman. However, the listinfo.html webpage didn't get updated when I viewed the page in a browser.
> Did I miss something?


Probably. There are three other places Mailm1an will look for that
template before looking there, and that is the one listinfo.html
template you shouldn't edit because changes to that file will be lost in
an upgrade.

Mailman looks first at /var/mailman/lists/LISTNAME/en/listinfo.html
which is the list specific English template and which can be
created/edited directly or via the web list admin interface.

Next Mailman looks at /var/mailman/templates/HOST_NAME/en/listinfo.html
which is the domain specific English template.

Then Mailman looks at /var/mailman/templates/site/en/listinfo.html which
is the sites default English template.

Finally, Mailman looks at /var/mailman/templates/en/listinfo.html which
is the distribution default English template.

The first one found is used. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From glen.page at thet.net  Tue Dec 10 16:48:35 2013
From: glen.page at thet.net (Glen Page)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 10:48:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachment size?
Message-ID: <D1E0596E-2D80-4403-9B86-7399F301977C@thet.net>

Where do I control how large of an attachment a particular list will accept?

I have a list member that needs to send an 8.6MB file to the list.
I have message length set to 0 (max_message_size) but the message keeps getting rejected with a "552 5.3.4 Error: message file too big" message.

Thanks for the help,

Glen Page
Technology Systems Administrator
ThetNet - Thetford Academy
802.785.4805.x231

Committees are things for keeping minutes and losing hours.


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Tue Dec 10 23:43:50 2013
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:43:50 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachment size?
In-Reply-To: <D1E0596E-2D80-4403-9B86-7399F301977C@thet.net>
References: <D1E0596E-2D80-4403-9B86-7399F301977C@thet.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.1312101642001.89291@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Tue, 10 Dec 2013, Glen Page wrote:

> Where do I control how large of an attachment a particular list will accept?
>
> I have a list member that needs to send an 8.6MB file to the list.

> I have message length set to 0 (max_message_size) but the message keeps 
> getting rejected with a "552 5.3.4 Error: message file too big" message.

It's probably running afoul of a size limit set on the MTA and never 
making it to Mailman. But since you didn't say what MTA you're using, it's 
difficult to provide additional help in that area. If that's what it is, 
you'll probably get a faster response in an appropriate forum for that 
MTA.

-- Larry Stone
    lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From srinivasb at gmail.com  Wed Dec 11 02:48:49 2013
From: srinivasb at gmail.com (Srinivas B.)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 17:48:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Error
Message-ID: <CA+1jXL0-8KmvL9RALdWt5WBa_bA7RDPZGrj0bS5US+DgYC_3xQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

Seeing the following errors in mailman log:

Dec 10 20:06:25 2013 (20635) Uncaught runner exception: Generator instance
has no __call__ method
Dec 10 20:06:25 2013 (20635) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py", line 69, in process
    ModeratedMemberPost)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 224, in
hold_for_approval
    id = mlist.HoldMessage(msg, reason, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 205, in HoldMessage
    g.flatten(msg, 1)
AttributeError: Generator instance has no __call__ method

Dec 10 20:06:25 2013 (20635) SHUNTING:
1386723985.8025019+e3f59c7356a58bc0077490ab1af914075d3e78aa

The above is after trying the patch to use "g.flatten(msg, 1)" in place of
"g(msg, 1)". But neither worked and gives pretty much the same error as
above.

Do I need to reinstall mailman or something else? How do I go about
checking any configuration or setup issues at my end?

Environment:

OS: Amazon Linux on AWS

[root at awshost postfix]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_db --all --verbose
List: gclist
   /var/lib/mailman/lists/gclist/config.pck: okay
   /var/lib/mailman/lists/gclist/config.pck.last: okay
    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/gclist/config.db'
    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/gclist/config.db.last'
List: mailman
   /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck: okay
   /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck.last: okay
    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.db'
    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.db.last'

[root at awshost mailman]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -v
...
No problems found

Thank you in advance.

-Srinivas

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec 11 05:33:59 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 20:33:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Error
In-Reply-To: <CA+1jXL0-8KmvL9RALdWt5WBa_bA7RDPZGrj0bS5US+DgYC_3xQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+1jXL0-8KmvL9RALdWt5WBa_bA7RDPZGrj0bS5US+DgYC_3xQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52A7EB37.20405@msapiro.net>

On 12/10/2013 05:48 PM, Srinivas B. wrote:
> 
> Seeing the following errors in mailman log:
...
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 205, in HoldMessage
>     g.flatten(msg, 1)
> AttributeError: Generator instance has no __call__ method
> 
...

> 
> The above is after trying the patch to use "g.flatten(msg, 1)" in place of
> "g(msg, 1)". But neither worked and gives pretty much the same error as
> above.


It looks like you neglected to restart Mailman after applying the patch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From srinivasb at gmail.com  Wed Dec 11 06:06:47 2013
From: srinivasb at gmail.com (Srinivas B.)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 21:06:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Error
In-Reply-To: <52A7EB37.20405@msapiro.net>
References: <CA+1jXL0-8KmvL9RALdWt5WBa_bA7RDPZGrj0bS5US+DgYC_3xQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <52A7EB37.20405@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CA+1jXL3YzLJfwJKcvKeBswentWPu0fbk5csSMLHNNgq1BBqhrQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark

I thought I restarted mailman after the patch. You are right on target.
Restarting mailman fixed this problem.

Thank you very much.

-Srinivas




On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:33 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 12/10/2013 05:48 PM, Srinivas B. wrote:
> >
> > Seeing the following errors in mailman log:
> ...
> >   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 205, in HoldMessage
> >     g.flatten(msg, 1)
> > AttributeError: Generator instance has no __call__ method
> >
> ...
>
> >
> > The above is after trying the patch to use "g.flatten(msg, 1)" in place
> of
> > "g(msg, 1)". But neither worked and gives pretty much the same error as
> > above.
>
>
> It looks like you neglected to restart Mailman after applying the patch.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/srinivasb%40gmail.com
>

From mpn at icabs.co.zw  Thu Dec 12 13:33:14 2013
From: mpn at icabs.co.zw (MP Netsai)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 14:33:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] converting to virtual list
Message-ID: <FEA7A538A4614F8FBD4CCDC6CB39262D@jedi>

Dear all,

I have been running my mailing lists on the specs here:
FreeBSD 9.1
Exim 4.80.1
Mailman 2.1.14
Python 2.7.5

I know I need to upgrade most if not all packages, but that is not important for now. I have been running my mailing list on a single domain and would like to now convert it to a virtual domain list. I have read much on how this can be done. My question is on what are the implications on the current lists? What should I expect and what should I not do? 

Thank you,

Nets.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

From adamsca at gmail.com  Fri Dec 13 00:58:22 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 15:58:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] smtp-failure.log / diagnosing delivery to only some
	subscribers
Message-ID: <CAA13W+913Jv4MS7f=u6tr6Hmbfc8ZcDw4kLZp_K6MbmE82jC1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Based on the logs that I have seen, this log  records messages sent to
addresses with bad syntax. Is that all it does. I don't see many items in
these, and with the volume of mail going through our system, I would expect
to see more.

"failed with code 501: 5.1.3 Bad recipient address syntax"

A post to a list shows 1) it was posted to the list (post.log) 2) Mailman
sent it to x number of recipients (smtp.log). When I look at the actual MTA
log, I only see that message, based on the message ID, going to a portion
of the x number of recipients.

So, I assumed that smtp-failure.log would show which addresses were not
sent to. I don't think that is what it is for.

Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot why the message seems to be only
sent to a portion of the subscribers, though Mailman tells me it was sent
to all the subscribers?




-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com"

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec 13 02:52:25 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 17:52:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] smtp-failure.log / diagnosing delivery to only
 some subscribers
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+913Jv4MS7f=u6tr6Hmbfc8ZcDw4kLZp_K6MbmE82jC1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA13W+913Jv4MS7f=u6tr6Hmbfc8ZcDw4kLZp_K6MbmE82jC1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52AA6859.7090605@msapiro.net>

On 12/12/2013 03:58 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> Based on the logs that I have seen, this log  records messages sent to
> addresses with bad syntax. Is that all it does. I don't see many items in
> these, and with the volume of mail going through our system, I would expect
> to see more.
> 
> "failed with code 501: 5.1.3 Bad recipient address syntax"
> 
> A post to a list shows 1) it was posted to the list (post.log) 2) Mailman
> sent it to x number of recipients (smtp.log). When I look at the actual MTA
> log, I only see that message, based on the message ID, going to a portion
> of the x number of recipients.
> 
> So, I assumed that smtp-failure.log would show which addresses were not
> sent to. I don't think that is what it is for.


The smtp-failure log logs any addresses that were rejected by the
outgoing MTA with a 5xx status during the SMTP session with Mailman.

For performance reasons, we recommend not doing things like domain
verification during SMTP with Mailman, so the only addresses likely to
be rejected at this point are those which are syntactically invalid and
possibly undeliverable local addresses.


> Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot why the message seems to be only
> sent to a portion of the subscribers, though Mailman tells me it was sent
> to all the subscribers?


Mailman tells you that all the recipients were accepted by the MTA.
Addresses which cannot be delivered by the MTA to the next hop because
they are rejected by that MTA will be logged in your MTA's logs and
should result in bounces back to Mailman.

Even if the message is successfully sent from your outgoing MTA to the
next hop, it may be subsequently bounced or it may be silently discarded
by the receiving MTA. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Dec 13 03:41:00 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 11:41:00 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] smtp-failure.log / diagnosing delivery to only
	some	subscribers
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+913Jv4MS7f=u6tr6Hmbfc8ZcDw4kLZp_K6MbmE82jC1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA13W+913Jv4MS7f=u6tr6Hmbfc8ZcDw4kLZp_K6MbmE82jC1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87a9g51nib.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Christopher Adams writes:

 > So, I assumed that smtp-failure.log would show which addresses were not
 > sent to. I don't think that is what it is for.

No, it shows addresses that were sent to and rejected by the remote
SMTP server.  MTAs have another option, which is to accept and
silently discard the message.  In that case, neither Mailman nor the
local MTA will know that the message didn't arrive at the intended
destination.

Discards happen in several instances, of which I can remember three
offhand:

1.  Google famously discards posts returning to the same Gmail address
    that posted it, and automatically marks the original "read".  I
    suspect it does the same with duplicates where a mailing list
    subscriber is also an explicit recipient, but I've never
    experienced it or heard a complaint.

2.  Many MTAs will silently discard posts they've judged to be spam.

3.  Some users hit the "spam" button instead of "delete", and
    (depending on their mail client/ISP) that may mark your list as a
    spam source, autotrashing your posts in the future.

 > Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot why the message seems to be
 > only sent to a portion of the subscribers, though Mailman tells me
 > it was sent to all the subscribers?

1.  Gmail users who don't receive own post should be asked to look in
    their "Sent" folders.  This is a Gmail feature that Google thinks
    is a good idea, it is widely hated, there is nothing we can do
    about it -- have the user complain to Gmail if it really bothers
    them and eventually Google may do something to fix it.

2.  In general users who don't receive posts should be asked to look
    in their spam folders, and whitelist your list.  How that is done
    depends on the user's mail client.

3.  Do traffic analysis.  If all the users losing posts are at Gmail,
    or Yahoo, or at Hotmail, or at AOL, or some combination of the
    above, then one or more of the big services has decided you're a
    spammer, or that some topic or content that your list regularly
    carries is a spam signal (which results in intermittent failures
    for the affected users).

4.  Check the "blackhole" services to see if your site or IP is
    listed.

Much of the above and more should be somewhere in the FAQ.

HTH

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec 13 08:16:22 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 23:16:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] smtp-failure.log / diagnosing delivery to only
 some	subscribers
In-Reply-To: <87a9g51nib.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAA13W+913Jv4MS7f=u6tr6Hmbfc8ZcDw4kLZp_K6MbmE82jC1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <87a9g51nib.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <52AAB446.7000106@msapiro.net>

On 12/12/2013 06:41 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Christopher Adams writes:
> 
>  > So, I assumed that smtp-failure.log would show which addresses were not
>  > sent to. I don't think that is what it is for.
> 
> No, it shows addresses that were sent to and rejected by the remote
> SMTP server.


Actually, smtp-failure only logs addresses that were rejected by the
local MTA. Addresses rejected by a remote MTA should be logged in the
local MTA's logs and result in bounces to Mailman, but they won't be
logged in smtp-failure.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From adamsca at gmail.com  Fri Dec 13 16:55:59 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 07:55:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] smtp-failure.log / diagnosing delivery to only
 some subscribers
In-Reply-To: <52AAB446.7000106@msapiro.net>
References: <CAA13W+913Jv4MS7f=u6tr6Hmbfc8ZcDw4kLZp_K6MbmE82jC1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <87a9g51nib.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <52AAB446.7000106@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAA13W+_10zGdht_9tuHpxO06JHp7Fus4XCMDeQxLMg1hvYwQzg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you all for your replies.

I queried my MTA log for the message ID and only came up with 8 out of 66
addresses. These were logged as sent.  I assumed that the
bounces/undeliverables would also show up with the same message ID. Am I
mistaken? Am I not looking for the right info in the MTA log?


On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 12/12/2013 06:41 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > Christopher Adams writes:
> >
> >  > So, I assumed that smtp-failure.log would show which addresses were
> not
> >  > sent to. I don't think that is what it is for.
> >
> > No, it shows addresses that were sent to and rejected by the remote
> > SMTP server.
>
>
> Actually, smtp-failure only logs addresses that were rejected by the
> local MTA. Addresses rejected by a remote MTA should be logged in the
> local MTA's logs and result in bounces to Mailman, but they won't be
> logged in smtp-failure.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adamsca%40gmail.com
>



-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Dec 13 18:12:00 2013
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 09:12:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reporting messages counts/size by user
Message-ID: <52AB3FE0.8040206@tuunq.com>

Hi,

This came up on another list I read- is there any relatively simple way to 
(a) report individual message activity to a user and (b) temporarily 
moderate a user when a count is exceeded?

The first would send an email to the user when they've exceeded a threshold* 
in a given period.

*messages to the list, total word count, quoted lines/total size, etc

The second, triggered by the first's info, would set the mod bit for a user 
exceeding the limit and send an email that they've been auto-moderated.

I've got some ideas, but not sure where to start with this. Maybe a handler 
in the incoming pipeline that does the counts and updates a database (use a 
pickle?), then a cron job to leaf through that database, send the warnings, 
and set moderation.

The list in question is plain text (html-scrubbed), but I realize that with 
the various messages encapsulations used, we may not catch everything, and 
that's OK. Also, this list is only a few hundred members, so this doesn't 
need to scale out to tens of thousands.

Oh, ya- mailman 2.1.17.

Thanks,

z!

From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Dec 13 18:55:15 2013
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 09:55:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reporting messages counts/size by user
In-Reply-To: <20131213174044.GY10820@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <52AB3FE0.8040206@tuunq.com>
 <20131213174044.GY10820@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <52AB4A03.3070004@tuunq.com>

On 12/13/2013 9:40 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote:

> TBH: it sounds as though you may be trying to solve a social problem,
> not a technological one.

Yep, it's a social/behavioral problem, but social methods (i.e. "trim your 
messages", "(whine) it's too hard on an ipad") haven't worked.

z!


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Fri Dec 13 18:40:44 2013
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:40:44 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reporting messages counts/size by user
In-Reply-To: <52AB3FE0.8040206@tuunq.com>
References: <52AB3FE0.8040206@tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <20131213174044.GY10820@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 09:12:00AM -0800, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
> This came up on another list I read- is there any relatively simple
> way to (a) report individual message activity to a user and (b)
> temporarily moderate a user when a count is exceeded?
> 
> The first would send an email to the user when they've exceeded a
> threshold* in a given period.
> 
> *messages to the list, total word count, quoted lines/total size, etc
> 
> The second, triggered by the first's info, would set the mod bit for
> a user exceeding the limit and send an email that they've been
> auto-moderated.
> 
> I've got some ideas, but not sure where to start with this. Maybe a
> handler in the incoming pipeline that does the counts and updates a
> database (use a pickle?), then a cron job to leaf through that
> database, send the warnings, and set moderation.

http://metricsgrimoire.github.io/MailingListStats/ is a tool I've used
in the past for reporting on lists as a whole. It does, however, do
the list. There may be bits you can use though, for users (or grep out
"their" lines in the output, maybe using `list_members` and a for?
loop).

For the stats on the word count/quoted/sizes, per user, you could
compute that on a regular base, although you may run into issues on
quoting (in particular, the quoting indicator: ^> is not always going
to be accurate.

TBH: it sounds as though you may be trying to solve a social problem,
not a technological one.

-- 
"What lawyers call intellectual property is
 no more than theft from the public domain."
    -- Andy Mueller-Maguhn

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec 13 19:30:31 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 10:30:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reporting messages counts/size by user
In-Reply-To: <20131213174044.GY10820@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <52AB3FE0.8040206@tuunq.com>
 <20131213174044.GY10820@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <52AB5247.2040802@msapiro.net>

On 12/13/2013 09:40 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote:
> 
> For the stats on the word count/quoted/sizes, per user, you could
> compute that on a regular base, although you may run into issues on
> quoting (in particular, the quoting indicator: ^> is not always going
> to be accurate.


There is code in the Handler at
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/MoreHolds.py> that attempts to determine
quoted vs. non-quoted text in posts. It is far from perfect.


> TBH: it sounds as though you may be trying to solve a social problem,
> not a technological one.


Absolutely true. In my case, after much vociferous complaining from a
few people, the loudest of which wasn't even affected by the quoting
tests, the club whose list this was said it didn't want any automated
decisions on quoting.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec 13 22:14:17 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 13:14:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] smtp-failure.log / diagnosing delivery to only
 some subscribers
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+_10zGdht_9tuHpxO06JHp7Fus4XCMDeQxLMg1hvYwQzg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA13W+913Jv4MS7f=u6tr6Hmbfc8ZcDw4kLZp_K6MbmE82jC1Q@mail.gmail.com>	<87a9g51nib.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<52AAB446.7000106@msapiro.net>
 <CAA13W+_10zGdht_9tuHpxO06JHp7Fus4XCMDeQxLMg1hvYwQzg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52AB78A9.7090104@msapiro.net>

On 12/13/2013 07:55 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> 
> I queried my MTA log for the message ID and only came up with 8 out of
> 66 addresses. These were logged as sent.  I assumed that the
> bounces/undeliverables would also show up with the same message ID. Am I
> mistaken? Am I not looking for the right info in the MTA log?


Depending on various settings, Mailman may be sending to multiple
recipients in one SMTP transaction and your MTA may only list one of
these recipients along with the Message-ID.

You need to query your MTA logs for the recipient addresses you are
concerned about and see if those are logged as sent or not. If they are
logged as sent, they may still be bounced by a remote MTA in which case,
that bounce will have a completely different Message-ID, or they may be
discarded by a receiving MTA or diverted to a spam folder.

Other than the advice in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9>, all
you can do is provide the intended recipient with your MTA's 'sent' log
message, and the recipient can inquire of her ISP why she didn't receive
the message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From joemailgroups at gmail.com  Sat Dec 14 10:13:56 2013
From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 01:13:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions on Mailman list administration.
Message-ID: <2C377FD9-8EBD-4B17-9519-E41B1E8BD9B4@gmail.com>

Hi, everyone.

I am the admin for 5 Mailman lists residing on the same server and part of the same domain. There are tasks I have been performing with great frequency lately and have started to question if there is a simpler way to perform them.

These are the questions:

1. I often subscribe members to the 5 lists myself. As it is now I have to subscribe the same member to each one of the 5 lists individually. In case I wish to subscribe members to all 5 lists hosted is there a way to do it all at the same time ?

2. Is there a way to look at the lists hosted collectively ? For instance, in case I wish to read (on screen) or print a list with all subscribers in one or all lists is there a way to do it with all lists being displayed together on the same page or document ?

3. Is there a way to print a list of subscribers along with their e-mail addresses ?

4. In the Mass Subscriptions page I enter the subscriber's e-mail address to add him or her to one list. However, I am then forced to go to the Membership List page and enter the subscribers name. Is there a way to do both at the same time ? Can the e-mail address and name be entered on the same page to simplify this process ?

5. Is there a way to print user statistics ? For instance, can I print a list with information on users such as the number of messages they have posted in a given time period, their country of origin, date when they were subscribed to the lists, e-mail address, and others ?

Thank you in advance.

Joe.



From joemailgroups at gmail.com  Sat Dec 14 11:23:48 2013
From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 02:23:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions on Mailman list administration.
In-Reply-To: <201312141048.39410.mmlists@ds-gmbh.de>
References: <2C377FD9-8EBD-4B17-9519-E41B1E8BD9B4@gmail.com>
 <201312141048.39410.mmlists@ds-gmbh.de>
Message-ID: <F15A6756-85C4-4AF8-A92F-F91C7B86EC4A@gmail.com>

Hi, Martin.

Thank you for your help and reply.

Unfortunately I am not well trained and skilled on the use of Unix (or in my case Apple's version of it). Any admin I do must be done using the browser interface available in Mailman.

Will all the answers to my questions be dependent on command line use ?

One more question I forgot to ask on my original post:

Is there a way to configure Mailman so that when users select 'reply' the message goes to the list and when they select 'reply all' the message goes to both the list and the poster wrote the message they are replying to ?

Thank you.

Joe.


On December 14, 2013, at 1:48 AM, Martin Schulte <mmlists at ds-gmbh.de> wrote:

> Hi Joe!
> 
>> I am the admin for 5 Mailman lists residing on the same server and part
>> of the same domain. There are tasks I have been performing with great
>> frequency lately and have started to question if there is a simpler way
>> to perform them.
>> 
>> These are the questions:
>> 
>> 1. I often subscribe members to the 5 lists myself. As it is now I have
>> to subscribe the same member to each one of the 5 lists individually. In
>> case I wish to subscribe members to all 5 lists hosted is there a way to
>> do it all at the same time ?
>> 
>> 2. Is there a way to look at the lists hosted collectively ? For
>> instance, in case I wish to read (on screen) or print a list with all
>> subscribers in one or all lists is there a way to do it with all lists
>> being displayed together on the same page or document ?
>> 
>> 3. Is there a way to print a list of subscribers along with their e-mail
>> addresses ?
> 
> All these questions can be answered with "Yes!" if you have commandline 
> access to the server and the lists thereon, then (propably) a "ssh server" 
> and "list_members <my_list>" and friends will be your friends ;)
> 
>> 4. In the Mass Subscriptions page I enter the subscriber's e-mail address
>> to add him or her to one list. However, I am then forced to go to the
>> Membership List page and enter the subscribers name. Is there a way to do
>> both at the same time ? Can the e-mail address and name be entered on the
>> same page to simplify this process ?
> 
> I think it works to enter lines like
> "Joe" <joemailgroups at gmail.com>
> on the mass subscription page.
> 
>> 5. Is there a way to print user statistics ? For instance, can I print a
>> list with information on users such as the number of messages they have
>> posted in a given time period, their country of origin, date when they
>> were subscribed to the lists, e-mail address, and others ?
> 
> Will probably not be that easy but with shell access it might be worth 
> thinking more about it.
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Martin


From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Sat Dec 14 16:20:25 2013
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:20:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions on Mailman list administration.
In-Reply-To: <F15A6756-85C4-4AF8-A92F-F91C7B86EC4A@gmail.com>
References: <2C377FD9-8EBD-4B17-9519-E41B1E8BD9B4@gmail.com>
 <201312141048.39410.mmlists@ds-gmbh.de>
 <F15A6756-85C4-4AF8-A92F-F91C7B86EC4A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52AC7739.10903@Damon-Family.org>

On 12/14/13, 5:23 AM, Joe wrote:
> One more question I forgot to ask on my original post:
>
> Is there a way to configure Mailman so that when users select 'reply' the message goes to the list and when they select 'reply all' the message goes to both the list and the poster wrote the message they are replying to ?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Joe.
>
>
Under general options, you can set the option

Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is /strongly/
recommended for most mailing lists:

To list.

Be aware that if any of your subscribers use the reply to header to
indicate where they want replies sent to, you will break this for them.
(The are links to fuller discussion on this at the option).

-- 
Richard Damon


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Dec 14 16:34:43 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 00:34:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reporting messages counts/size by user
In-Reply-To: <52AB4A03.3070004@tuunq.com>
References: <52AB3FE0.8040206@tuunq.com>
 <20131213174044.GY10820@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
 <52AB4A03.3070004@tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <8738lv1m5o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Carl Zwanzig writes:

 > Yep, it's a social/behavioral problem, but social methods (i.e. "trim your 
 > messages", "(whine) it's too hard on an ipad") haven't worked.

>From the Oh-I-Really-Wish-I-Could-Do-This Dept.:

Put "forgive my brevity" in your spam filter.

;-)


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Dec 14 18:52:22 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 02:52:22 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions on Mailman list administration.
In-Reply-To: <52AC7739.10903@Damon-Family.org>
References: <2C377FD9-8EBD-4B17-9519-E41B1E8BD9B4@gmail.com>
 <201312141048.39410.mmlists@ds-gmbh.de>
 <F15A6756-85C4-4AF8-A92F-F91C7B86EC4A@gmail.com>
 <52AC7739.10903@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <871u1f1fs9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Richard Damon writes:
 > On 12/14/13, 5:23 AM, Joe wrote:
 > > One more question I forgot to ask on my original post:
 > >
 > > Is there a way to configure Mailman so that when users select
 > > 'reply' the message goes to the list and when they select 'reply
 > > all' the message goes to both the list and the poster wrote the
 > > message they are replying to ?

No, there isn't.  A "smart" MUA has a "reply to list" function that
replies to list if the List-Post header is present, and otherwise to
the poster.  Such a setting is then undesirable, because users of such
MUAs almost never want the reply-to-poster function (but can use it if
appropriate), and the reply-to-all function does the Right Thing.

On the other hand, the header that Mailman (ab)uses to control this
behavior is the Reply-To header, but it is interpreted by the
recipient's MUA.  Standard-conforming MUAs simply substitute the
Reply-To address for the poster address, because the *definition* of
the Reply-To header is "where the *author* wants replies sent, if not
to the From address."

There is no standard way for a mailing list to say where *it* wants
replies to go, and no "best current practice" to arbitrate between
list and poster when their wishes conflict.

 > Be aware that if any of your subscribers use the reply to header to
 > indicate where they want replies sent to, you will break this for them.
 > (The are links to fuller discussion on this at the option).

It also prevents *any* standard-conforming mailer from addressing
replies to the poster, period.  (Of course you can cut-and-paste, and
the mailer will *send* to the poster.  But that's way inconvenient.)

In theory Mailman could have a setting to include the poster's address
in Reply-To, but that's not what Reply-To mungers usually want (it
ends up PO-ing their subscribers who get tons of duplicates), and it's
not what Mailman does AFAIK.

From ricardo at americasnet.com  Sat Dec 14 20:11:10 2013
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:11:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce processing not removing members
In-Reply-To: <CALR4AhR8PFdOhLpYJjMRJw2ybWjp4QK0kzBRG8ksc-kV1ib7Aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALR4AhR8PFdOhLpYJjMRJw2ybWjp4QK0kzBRG8ksc-kV1ib7Aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALR4AhRKtY59Q7afE-FCupY-uNsq8RkKc3q2OPau88m91RtV6w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I have a large list (>50,000) which processes a large number of bounces and
also supposedly disables subscriptions after excessive bounces.

However, even after seeing a "subscription disabled" message, if I check
the member list, the address is still in there.

Doesn't "subscriptin disabled" actually remove a member from the list?

For example, I'll see this message:

List:       xyz
    Member:     <email hidden>
    Action:     Subscription disabled.
    Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.

If I check the member list for that particular email address, it still is
there.

Is there any way to figure out how to debug this issue?

thanks
Ricardo

From mmlists at ds-gmbh.de  Sat Dec 14 10:48:38 2013
From: mmlists at ds-gmbh.de (Martin Schulte)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:48:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions on Mailman list administration.
In-Reply-To: <2C377FD9-8EBD-4B17-9519-E41B1E8BD9B4@gmail.com>
References: <2C377FD9-8EBD-4B17-9519-E41B1E8BD9B4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201312141048.39410.mmlists@ds-gmbh.de>

Hi Joe!

> I am the admin for 5 Mailman lists residing on the same server and part
> of the same domain. There are tasks I have been performing with great
> frequency lately and have started to question if there is a simpler way
> to perform them.
>
> These are the questions:
>
> 1. I often subscribe members to the 5 lists myself. As it is now I have
> to subscribe the same member to each one of the 5 lists individually. In
> case I wish to subscribe members to all 5 lists hosted is there a way to
> do it all at the same time ?
>
> 2. Is there a way to look at the lists hosted collectively ? For
> instance, in case I wish to read (on screen) or print a list with all
> subscribers in one or all lists is there a way to do it with all lists
> being displayed together on the same page or document ?
>
> 3. Is there a way to print a list of subscribers along with their e-mail
> addresses ?

All these questions can be answered with "Yes!" if you have commandline 
access to the server and the lists thereon, then (propably) a "ssh server" 
and "list_members <my_list>" and friends will be your friends ;)

> 4. In the Mass Subscriptions page I enter the subscriber's e-mail address
> to add him or her to one list. However, I am then forced to go to the
> Membership List page and enter the subscribers name. Is there a way to do
> both at the same time ? Can the e-mail address and name be entered on the
> same page to simplify this process ?

I think it works to enter lines like
"Joe" <joemailgroups at gmail.com>
on the mass subscription page.

> 5. Is there a way to print user statistics ? For instance, can I print a
> list with information on users such as the number of messages they have
> posted in a given time period, their country of origin, date when they
> were subscribed to the lists, e-mail address, and others ?

Will probably not be that easy but with shell access it might be worth 
thinking more about it.

Greetings,

Martin

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Dec 14 20:59:47 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:59:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce processing not removing members
In-Reply-To: <CALR4AhRKtY59Q7afE-FCupY-uNsq8RkKc3q2OPau88m91RtV6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALR4AhR8PFdOhLpYJjMRJw2ybWjp4QK0kzBRG8ksc-kV1ib7Aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALR4AhRKtY59Q7afE-FCupY-uNsq8RkKc3q2OPau88m91RtV6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52ACB8B3.5040607@msapiro.net>

On 12/14/2013 11:11 AM, Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
> 
> For example, I'll see this message:
> 
> List:       xyz
>     Member:     <email hidden>
>     Action:     Subscription disabled.
>     Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.
> 
> If I check the member list for that particular email address, it still is
> there.


That's correct. Check your list's web admin Bounce processing settings.
When the subscription is 'disabled' by bounce, it means a process is
started wherein a number of warnings determined by the
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings setting are sent at intervals of
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days and only after all the
warnings have been sent is the address removed from the list.

If you want the address to be removed immediately, set
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings to zero.

Note that the warnings and eventual removal (if warnings > 0) depends
also on Mailman's cron/disabled job being run daily, normally by cron.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Dec 14 21:47:00 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 12:47:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions on Mailman list administration.
In-Reply-To: <2C377FD9-8EBD-4B17-9519-E41B1E8BD9B4@gmail.com>
References: <2C377FD9-8EBD-4B17-9519-E41B1E8BD9B4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52ACC3C4.4060701@msapiro.net>

On 12/14/2013 01:13 AM, Joe wrote:
> Hi, everyone.
> 
> I am the admin for 5 Mailman lists residing on the same server and part of the same domain. There are tasks I have been performing with great frequency lately and have started to question if there is a simpler way to perform them.

and later added:
> Any admin I do must be done using the browser interface available in Mailman.


> These are the questions:
> 
> 1. I often subscribe members to the 5 lists myself. As it is now I have to subscribe the same member to each one of the 5 lists individually. In case I wish to subscribe members to all 5 lists hosted is there a way to do it all at the same time ?


You could create a script on your work station to issue 'wget' commands
to do the subscribes. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9> and
the post at
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041214.html>.

The script could be something like

#!/bin/sh
for list in listname1 listname2 listname3 listname4 listname5; do
wget -O - http://[domain.name]/mailman/admin/$list/members/add\
?subscribees="$1"\
&adminpw=[admin_password]\
&send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0\
&send_notifications_to_list_owner=0
done

If this were saved in a file named say sub5 and given execute
permission, you could then in a terminal window do

/path/to/sub5 "John Doe <jdoe at example.com>"

to subscribe that user to the 5 lists. See the above linked post for
more info on the wget command parameters.


> 2. Is there a way to look at the lists hosted collectively ? For instance, in case I wish to read (on screen) or print a list with all subscribers in one or all lists is there a way to do it with all lists being displayed together on the same page or document ?


You could script the answer to 3. below.


> 3. Is there a way to print a list of subscribers along with their e-mail addresses ?


Visit the roster at <http://host.name/mailman/roster/list_name directly
or via the Visit Subscriber List button on the list's listinfo page.


> 4. In the Mass Subscriptions page I enter the subscriber's e-mail address to add him or her to one list. However, I am then forced to go to the Membership List page and enter the subscribers name. Is there a way to do both at the same time ? Can the e-mail address and name be entered on the same page to simplify this process ?


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/YoA9>.


> 5. Is there a way to print user statistics ? For instance, can I print a list with information on users such as the number of messages they have posted in a given time period, their country of origin, date when they were subscribed to the lists, e-mail address, and others ?


No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ricardo at americasnet.com  Sun Dec 15 04:45:58 2013
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 19:45:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce processing not removing members
In-Reply-To: <52ACB8B3.5040607@msapiro.net>
References: <CALR4AhR8PFdOhLpYJjMRJw2ybWjp4QK0kzBRG8ksc-kV1ib7Aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALR4AhRKtY59Q7afE-FCupY-uNsq8RkKc3q2OPau88m91RtV6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <52ACB8B3.5040607@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CALR4AhQihzdU2ozSRLCg=ny60FN4NirC_FBrWT=AFc-ri-wY-w@mail.gmail.com>

is there a way to configure via "withlist" instead of the web admin?


On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 12/14/2013 11:11 AM, Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
> >
> > For example, I'll see this message:
> >
> > List:       xyz
> >     Member:     <email hidden>
> >     Action:     Subscription disabled.
> >     Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.
> >
> > If I check the member list for that particular email address, it still is
> > there.
>
>
> That's correct. Check your list's web admin Bounce processing settings.
> When the subscription is 'disabled' by bounce, it means a process is
> started wherein a number of warnings determined by the
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings setting are sent at intervals of
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days and only after all the
> warnings have been sent is the address removed from the list.
>
> If you want the address to be removed immediately, set
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings to zero.
>
> Note that the warnings and eventual removal (if warnings > 0) depends
> also on Mailman's cron/disabled job being run daily, normally by cron.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ricardo%40americasnet.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec 15 05:27:11 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 20:27:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce processing not removing members
In-Reply-To: <CALR4AhQihzdU2ozSRLCg=ny60FN4NirC_FBrWT=AFc-ri-wY-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALR4AhR8PFdOhLpYJjMRJw2ybWjp4QK0kzBRG8ksc-kV1ib7Aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALR4AhRKtY59Q7afE-FCupY-uNsq8RkKc3q2OPau88m91RtV6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <52ACB8B3.5040607@msapiro.net>
 <CALR4AhQihzdU2ozSRLCg=ny60FN4NirC_FBrWT=AFc-ri-wY-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52AD2F9F.8030907@msapiro.net>

On 12/14/2013 07:45 PM, Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
> is there a way to configure via "withlist" instead of the web admin?


Yes, you can configure anything with withlist, but just setting one or a
few list attributes is easier with config_list.

Also, see the script at <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_attributes>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ournet.biz at gmail.com  Mon Dec 16 00:23:15 2013
From: ournet.biz at gmail.com (EyeLand)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 01:23:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject with "***UNCHECKED***"
Message-ID: <CAOVpyhnC0n09QWr2BM8tw6oYmFy25j_ienMkHXCEbmzEow8kzA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, when I send an email to my mailing list, the subscribers
receive my email with word into subject "***UNCHECKED***", how can I
deactivate that word? Thank you!

From madings at gmail.com  Mon Dec 16 01:12:11 2013
From: madings at gmail.com (Steven Mading)
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 18:12:11 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to run the daemons (qrunner) on
 demand only when a message arrives in the queue?
Message-ID: <CABbmsTm0Z9HWxPcKTG8X31TXDTRyxYPnygLYcVRKnSAZNkBcVQ@mail.gmail.com>

My mailing list is very low traffic.  It only sees activity of about 6-7
messages a month, and even that is at peak activity.  It can sometimes go a
whole month with no messages.

The standard setup for Mailman on a Redhat system seems to be to run
qrunner at bootup time via a /etc/init.d script and then have the daemon
processes sit there existing in the process list until a mail message
arrives and then they wake up and have work to do.

This setup seems inappropriate for a low traffic mailing list.  For one
thing the processes have a significant virtual memory footprint and my
hosting service puts a max cap on virtual memory (which I know is stupid
because it has no real impact on the host OS but it's what they do).  For
another thing because the list can be idle a long time, if something made
the qrunner processes crash, then I don't notice and when someone does
finally use the mailing list the message doesn't go through until they
complain to me and I go restart mailman.

That makes me think that for a very low traffic mailing list like mine, it
would be more appropriate if I could get the Mailman daemons to operate
similar to how an internet daemon operates when it is triggered by inetd
instead of being a true daemon.  (Most of the time it isn't even running at
all and has zero footprint.  Instead a much smaller much simpler daemon
runs to watch for the type of activity that the bigger daemon should
respond to, and when it happens it runs the bigger program to respond to
just this one instance of activity, after which the bigger program will die
and go away leaving just the little program to continue looking for further
activity).  This pattern adds the cost of extra lag to the response, but
this buys you a lower footprint the rest of the time when it's idle, and it
also buys you the ability to not have to constantly monitor to make sure
that a process that hasn't had anything to do for a long time is still
running.

It would be wonderful if I could do a thing like that with qrunner.

Is there an option that I can turn on somewhere that does this and I just
can't find it in the documentation?

If not I'll cobble together a small script that will look at Mailman's
pending queue directory and when it starts having files in it, the script
will run "/etc/init.d/mailman start", and when it has no files in it, it
will run "/etc/init.d/mailman stop".

It's a crude solution so I'd rather not use it if there's something more
elegant built in to Mailman that I didn't notice.


-- 
Steven L. Mading <madings at gmail.com>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Dec 16 15:13:23 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 23:13:23 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Subject with "***UNCHECKED***"
In-Reply-To: <CAOVpyhnC0n09QWr2BM8tw6oYmFy25j_ienMkHXCEbmzEow8kzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOVpyhnC0n09QWr2BM8tw6oYmFy25j_ienMkHXCEbmzEow8kzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87iouozxx8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

EyeLand writes:

 > Hello, when I send an email to my mailing list, the subscribers
 > receive my email with word into subject "***UNCHECKED***", how can I
 > deactivate that word? Thank you!

Mailman as distributed by this project doesn't do that.  Assuming that
you're using an unaltered distribution, if all your subscribers are
receiving it, then probably your local configuration of Mailman is
bypassing some sort of check, and the local mail server is doing it.
If only some of them are receiving the post with "***UNCHECKED***" in
the subject, then it's happening at their end.

The remaining possibility is that your local installation of Mailman
has been altered.  But we can't guess what that might be.

So this isn't the place to ask.  You need to talk to the administrators
of your Mailman host.


From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Mon Dec 16 19:42:32 2013
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 10:42:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members sync between lists
Message-ID: <CAJz=WW52LoypiFEg2HGNMWt4iEUoztYnC2NjNVXu-Wje7puicQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

We have a couple lists: lists for individual schools and one list for the
superintendent. When the parents signup for the school, we would like to
add them into the superintendent list. When they unsubscribe, we would like
to remove them from the big list as well. Currently, we do the sync option
and discover that it removes members who signup for the big list only.
Besides from the umbrella list, is there any other option/script/feature
that will help us accomplish the task?

Thank you,

From jon.1234 at hotmail.co.uk  Mon Dec 16 23:42:25 2013
From: jon.1234 at hotmail.co.uk (Jon 1234)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 22:42:25 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reconfiguring Mailman with different with-cgi-gid
Message-ID: <DUB122-W6E73AEE538890B18FCD3DD3D80@phx.gbl>

Dear all
I used the following when setting up Mailman 2.14:
./configure --prefix=ZZZ/mailman --with-mail-gid=daemon --with-cgi-gid=www --with-username=ZZZ --with-groupname=users --with-python=ZZZ/bin/python
To upgrade PHP from 5.2 to 5.3 the website hosts have to enable suexec (I don't quite understand this but bear with me!) which breaks Mailman, I think because it runs as a different user to before.
Can I reconfigure Mailman using this?
./configure --prefix=ZZZ/mailman --with-mail-gid=daemon --with-cgi-gid=users --with-username=ZZZ --with-groupname=users --with-python=ZZZ/bin/python
This is the with-cgi-gid setting that the hosting people suggest, but I would be grateful for confirmation from someone on this expert list.
What else would I need to do?
Thanks very much in anticipation.
Jon 		 	   		  

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 17 06:08:45 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 21:08:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reconfiguring Mailman with different
	with-cgi-gid
In-Reply-To: <DUB122-W6E73AEE538890B18FCD3DD3D80@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB122-W6E73AEE538890B18FCD3DD3D80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <52AFDC5D.7000704@msapiro.net>

On 12/16/2013 02:42 PM, Jon 1234 wrote:
> Can I reconfigure Mailman using this?
> ./configure --prefix=ZZZ/mailman --with-mail-gid=daemon --with-cgi-gid=users --with-username=ZZZ --with-groupname=users --with-python=ZZZ/bin/python
> This is the with-cgi-gid setting that the hosting people suggest, but I would be grateful for confirmation from someone on this expert list.
> What else would I need to do?


You probably need --with-cgi-gid=mailman, not --with-cgi-gid=users

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/toA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 17 06:23:58 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 21:23:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to run the daemons (qrunner) on
 demand only when a message arrives in the queue?
In-Reply-To: <CABbmsTm0Z9HWxPcKTG8X31TXDTRyxYPnygLYcVRKnSAZNkBcVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABbmsTm0Z9HWxPcKTG8X31TXDTRyxYPnygLYcVRKnSAZNkBcVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52AFDFEE.2040405@msapiro.net>

On 12/15/2013 04:12 PM, Steven Mading wrote:

> This pattern adds the cost of extra lag to the response, but
> this buys you a lower footprint the rest of the time when it's idle, and it
> also buys you the ability to not have to constantly monitor to make sure
> that a process that hasn't had anything to do for a long time is still
> running.
> 
> It would be wonderful if I could do a thing like that with qrunner.
> 
> Is there an option that I can turn on somewhere that does this and I just
> can't find it in the documentation?


No.


> If not I'll cobble together a small script that will look at Mailman's
> pending queue directory and when it starts having files in it, the script
> will run "/etc/init.d/mailman start", and when it has no files in it, it
> will run "/etc/init.d/mailman stop".
> 
> It's a crude solution so I'd rather not use it if there's something more
> elegant built in to Mailman that I didn't notice.


Inelegant as it is, that's probably the best you can do.

You might consider treating separate queues separately. I.e., when
there's something in qfiles/in (/var/spool/mailman/in on RedHat) run

bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1

and then when the queue is empty send that process a SIGTERM and
similarly for the out queue and OutgoingRunner, the archive queue and
ArchRunner, and the other 5 runners.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 17 06:36:11 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 21:36:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members sync between lists
In-Reply-To: <CAJz=WW52LoypiFEg2HGNMWt4iEUoztYnC2NjNVXu-Wje7puicQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJz=WW52LoypiFEg2HGNMWt4iEUoztYnC2NjNVXu-Wje7puicQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52AFE2CB.10607@msapiro.net>

On 12/16/2013 10:42 AM, Hung Phan wrote:

> Besides from the umbrella list, is there any other option/script/feature
> that will help us accomplish the task.


If the school lists are non-digestable, you could add all the school
lists to the superintendent's regular_include_lists and only subscribe
those who aren't on a school list to the superintendent list.

This may or may not be satisfactory. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/TIA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mpn at icabs.co.zw  Tue Dec 17 04:41:58 2013
From: mpn at icabs.co.zw (MP Netsai)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 05:41:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery error to virtual list
Message-ID: <70F3FF533B104AE7B97840F576C8E596@jedi>

Can someone please point me in the right direction. I have just recently 
built Mailman for virtual domains. I have followed the guidelines on section 
6.2.12 (Virtual Domains) {http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node28.html}. 
I am using Exim 4.80 and Mailman 2.1.14 on a FreeBSD 9.1. The error on 
trying to deliver message to a created list comes back as "unknown user", 
eg.

exim -bt createdlist at mydomain.com
createdlist at mydomain.com is undeliverable: Unknown user

I am not sure if my error is on my transport or router configuration. Would 
very much appreciate some help.

Many thanks,

Netsai. 


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 17 08:11:04 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 23:11:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery error to virtual list
In-Reply-To: <70F3FF533B104AE7B97840F576C8E596@jedi>
References: <70F3FF533B104AE7B97840F576C8E596@jedi>
Message-ID: <52AFF908.1010308@msapiro.net>

On 12/16/2013 07:41 PM, MP Netsai wrote:
> Can someone please point me in the right direction. I have just recently
> built Mailman for virtual domains. I have followed the guidelines on
> section 6.2.12 (Virtual Domains)
> {http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node28.html}.


Those instructions assume you are running a separate Mailman instance
for each domain. Is this what you want? The more usual case is a single
instance with the restriction that list names must be globally unique.


> I am using Exim 4.80
> and Mailman 2.1.14 on a FreeBSD 9.1. The error on trying to deliver
> message to a created list comes back as "unknown user", eg.
> 
> exim -bt createdlist at mydomain.com
> createdlist at mydomain.com is undeliverable: Unknown user
> 
> I am not sure if my error is on my transport or router configuration.
> Would very much appreciate some help.


Without seeing your Exim router and transport definitions for Mailman,
we can't guess what the problem might be.

Also, see the note at the beginning of
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node16.html>, i.e. follow
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html> rather than the Mailman
installation manual for Exim 4

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jon.1234 at hotmail.co.uk  Tue Dec 17 15:36:41 2013
From: jon.1234 at hotmail.co.uk (Jon 1234)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 14:36:41 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reconfiguring Mailman with different
 with-cgi-gid
In-Reply-To: <52AFDC5D.7000704@msapiro.net>
References: <DUB122-W6E73AEE538890B18FCD3DD3D80@phx.gbl>,
 <52AFDC5D.7000704@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <DUB122-W16AEE3B6E4F528054ADC2DD3DB0@phx.gbl>

> You probably need --with-cgi-gid=mailman, not --with-cgi-gid=users
> 
> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/toA9>.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

Thanks. I'll try that.

Just to check, is this the correct process? mailmanctl stop -- configure (with options as in previous emails) -- make install -- mailmanctl start. I'm note sure whether it's necessary to 'make install' again.

I will make backups first, but if it all goes wrong, could I just reconfigure Mailman back to the original way and ask for suexec to be disabled again?

Thanks again

Jon 		 	   		  

From jon.1234 at hotmail.co.uk  Tue Dec 17 15:46:57 2013
From: jon.1234 at hotmail.co.uk (Jon 1234)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 14:46:57 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman directory located in public HTML directory
Message-ID: <DUB122-W16D4F1563E5D5A560CB84FD3DB0@phx.gbl>

When I installed Mailman 2.14 I put it in the domain.com/mailman/ directory. This is because Mailman is accessed via domain.com/mailman/ and I thought the files had to be there...

It does work but is this a potential security problem? What would be the best way to fix this?

Thanks in anticipation (please do let me know if you need further details)

Jon 		 	   		  

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 17 19:01:32 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 10:01:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman directory located in public HTML
	directory
In-Reply-To: <DUB122-W16D4F1563E5D5A560CB84FD3DB0@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB122-W16D4F1563E5D5A560CB84FD3DB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <52B0917C.4030102@msapiro.net>

On 12/17/2013 06:46 AM, Jon 1234 wrote:
> When I installed Mailman 2.14 I put it in the domain.com/mailman/ directory. This is because Mailman is accessed via domain.com/mailman/ and I thought the files had to be there...
> 
> It does work but is this a potential security problem? What would be the best way to fix this?


Whether or not this is a security issue depends on your web server.
There are files that contain potentially sensitive information that are
world readable and/or readable by the web server. In particular, private
archives may be sensitive, Mailman/mm_cfg.py can contain
SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET and possibly other sensitive information and
lists/*/config.pck files may be owned by the web server depending on how
they were last updated and they contain membership data.

However, typically, URLs of the form http://domain.com/mailman/... (http
GETs and POSTS of /mailman/...) are processed by the web server via some
script alias that invokes a mailman/cgi-bin/ program to process the
request. Thus, files in the domain.com/mailman/ directory should not be
directly retrievable by an http GET, but if they are, it's an issue.
Thus the normal recommendation is to install Mailman in a directory
outside the web server's normal accessible structure.

If you want to fix it, stop Mailman, rerun configure and make install,
move the lists/ and archives/ directories to the new location. Update
the Mailman stuff in your web server and maybe MTA (or maybe run
bin/genaliases) and start Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 17 19:04:01 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 10:04:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reconfiguring Mailman with different
	with-cgi-gid
In-Reply-To: <DUB122-W16AEE3B6E4F528054ADC2DD3DB0@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB122-W6E73AEE538890B18FCD3DD3D80@phx.gbl>,
 <52AFDC5D.7000704@msapiro.net>
 <DUB122-W16AEE3B6E4F528054ADC2DD3DB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <52B09211.1040008@msapiro.net>

On 12/17/2013 06:36 AM, Jon 1234 wrote:
> 
> Just to check, is this the correct process? mailmanctl stop -- configure (with options as in previous emails) -- make install -- mailmanctl start. I'm note sure whether it's necessary to 'make install' again.


Yes it is necessary to make install as this is what updates the
mailman/cgi-bin/* wrappers which is what needs to be done.


> I will make backups first, but if it all goes wrong, could I just reconfigure Mailman back to the original way and ask for suexec to be disabled again?


I don't see why not.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Wed Dec 18 10:27:15 2013
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 10:27:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET feature?
Message-ID: <F9184000FDC735CFB37F6C74@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

Hi,

I installed Mailman 2.1.17 last night (upgrade from 2.1.15) and decided to 
give the SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET feature a try, since we don't use static 
subscribe forms. All seemed well, but this morning I noticed that the 
listinfo page for some of the lists didn't work anymore. Here's an example 
from the error log:

Dec 18 10:15:43 2013 admin(328): 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(328): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.17 -----]
admin(328): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(328): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(328):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 117, in run_main
admin(328):     main()
admin(328):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 65, in 
main
admin(328):     list_listinfo(mlist, language)
admin(328):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 194, in 
list_listinfo
admin(328):     mlist.internal_name() +
admin(328): TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'int' and 'str'
admin(328): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(328): sys.version     =   2.7.6 (default, Nov 11 2013, 12:26:23)
[GCC 4.4.7 20120313 (Red Hat 4.4.7-1)]
admin(328): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python2.7
admin(328): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(328): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(328): sys.path        =   ['/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib', 
'/usr/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/mailman/scripts', '/usr/lib/mailman', 
'/usr/lib/python27.zip', '/usr/lib/python2.7/', 
'/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-tk', 
'/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-old', '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload', 
'/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages']
admin(328): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(328): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(328): 	SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.3 (Red Hat)
admin(328): 	SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo
...

When I looked at line 194 in /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py, I 
noticed that it handles the SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET feature. So I disabled 
the feature, restarted Mailman, and now the listinfo page works again.

Cheers,
Sebastian
-- 
    .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - Weyertal 121 (Geb?ude 133), Zimmer 2.02.:.
                 .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:.
   .:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-470-89578.:.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec 18 16:04:14 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 07:04:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET feature?
In-Reply-To: <F9184000FDC735CFB37F6C74@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
References: <F9184000FDC735CFB37F6C74@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <52B1B96E.1080603@msapiro.net>

On 12/18/2013 01:27 AM, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
> 
> I installed Mailman 2.1.17 last night (upgrade from 2.1.15) and decided
> to give the SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET feature a try, since we don't use
> static subscribe forms. All seemed well, but this morning I noticed that
> the listinfo page for some of the lists didn't work anymore. Here's an
> example from the error log:
> 
...
> admin(328):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 194,
> in list_listinfo
> admin(328):     mlist.internal_name() +
> admin(328): TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'int' and 'str'


It appears that you put something like

SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET = Yes

in mm_cfg.py. If you set SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET, it must be a string as
for example:

SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET= 'My little SecreT'

This is intended to be a string unique to your site so an attacker can't
compute the hash needed in sub_form_token.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From pyz at brama.com  Wed Dec 18 18:05:45 2013
From: pyz at brama.com (Max Pyziur)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 12:05:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Please Ignore] Re: Emails not getting through to
 subscribers, but posted to archives
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.11.1312181153030.19323@brama.com>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.11.1312181153030.19323@brama.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.11.1312181204190.22466@brama.com>


Please ignore my request

Things are working as designed, with some delays.



MP
pyz at brama.com

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013, Max Pyziur wrote:

>
> Greetings,
>
> Because of some other tests, I restarted mailman this morning on my server.
>
> I've encountered the problem that emails are not getting through to 
> subscribers, but they are being posted to the archives.
>
> I would appreciate any sort of guidance as to how to troubleshoot this 
> problem.
>
> Much thanks,
>
> Max Pyziur
> pyz at brama.com
>
>

From informatica at actiu.net  Wed Dec 18 18:05:58 2013
From: informatica at actiu.net (Narcis Garcia)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:05:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some improvements to README.Exim4.Debian
Message-ID: <3dl2rV3gb4z7LjW@mail.python.org>

I've making a setup for a Debian 7 (wheezy) trying to follow strictly
the guide in README.Exim4.Debian , but there are two things that I think
lack to that file:

*1.* A problem seen in /var/log/exim4/mainlog:
/failed to expand condition
"${lookup{$local_part@$domain}lsearch{/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman}{1}{0}}"
for mailman_router router: failed to open
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman for linear search: No such file or
directory/

My solution:
$ EximUser="$(sudo ps -A -o pid,ppid,pcpu,user,cmd | grep -ie 'exim' |
grep -ve ' grep ' | cut -f 2 -d '.' | grep -ve '. root ' | cut -f 2 -d '
' | head --lines=1)"
$ sudo touch /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
$ sudo chown ${EximUser}:list /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
$ sudo chmod ug=rw,o=r /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

*2.* Cannot create lists from web interface with the target domain:
/Error: Unknown virtual host: lista.cnt.cat/

My solution: add the following 2 lines to /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py , after
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS declaration:
for CurrentDomain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS:
 add_virtualhost(CurrentDomain, CurrentDomain)



From pyz at brama.com  Wed Dec 18 17:53:25 2013
From: pyz at brama.com (Max Pyziur)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:53:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails not getting through to subscribers,
	but posted to archives
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.11.1312181153030.19323@brama.com>


Greetings,

Because of some other tests, I restarted mailman this morning on my 
server.

I've encountered the problem that emails are not getting through to 
subscribers, but they are being posted to the archives.

I would appreciate any sort of guidance as to how to troubleshoot this 
problem.

Much thanks,

Max Pyziur
pyz at brama.com

From ournet.biz at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 22:01:16 2013
From: ournet.biz at gmail.com (EyeLand)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 23:01:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error from Cron about Mailman on Debian
Message-ID: <CAOVpyhnxAPaX=U2UF83_cpTS=6-ncWcsfXHiP=aUd4-W9LfFEg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, on VPS Debian I install Mailman, and everyday I receive error
from Cron, can you consult? Thank you!

***UNCHECKED*** Cron <list at vps1> [ -x
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
List: mailman: problem processing /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/digest.mbox:
[Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments'

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 19 02:13:05 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 17:13:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some improvements to README.Exim4.Debian
In-Reply-To: <3dl2rV3gb4z7LjW@mail.python.org>
References: <3dl2rV3gb4z7LjW@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <52B24821.3060208@msapiro.net>

On 12/18/2013 09:05 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote:
> I've making a setup for a Debian 7 (wheezy) trying to follow strictly
> the guide in README.Exim4.Debian , but there are two things that I think
> lack to that file:


README.Exim4.Debian is not part of our GNU Mailman distribution. It is
probably added by Debian as part of their Mailman package. This should
be reported to Debian, not here.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 19 02:30:32 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 17:30:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error from Cron about Mailman on Debian
In-Reply-To: <CAOVpyhnxAPaX=U2UF83_cpTS=6-ncWcsfXHiP=aUd4-W9LfFEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOVpyhnxAPaX=U2UF83_cpTS=6-ncWcsfXHiP=aUd4-W9LfFEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52B24C38.5080404@msapiro.net>

On 12/18/2013 01:01 PM, EyeLand wrote:
> Hello, on VPS Debian I install Mailman, and everyday I receive error
> from Cron, can you consult? Thank you!
> 
> ***UNCHECKED*** Cron <list at vps1> [ -x
> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests ] &&
> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
> List: mailman: problem processing /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/digest.mbox:
> [Errno 13] Permission denied:
> '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments'


Run Mailman's

bin/check_perms -f

as root. This should fix the problem. If not, all the directories

/var/lib/mailman
/var/lib/mailman/archives
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments

should have mode 2775 (drwxrwsr-x) and group equal Mailman's group
(probably 'list' on Debian, and /var/lib/mailman/archives/private should
have the same group and either the mode should be 2770 (drwxrws---) and
the owner should be the web server user (probably www-data) or the mode
should be 2771 (drwxrws--x). See the Warning: box at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mpn at icabs.co.zw  Thu Dec 19 03:32:34 2013
From: mpn at icabs.co.zw (MP Netsai)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 04:32:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery error to virtual list
In-Reply-To: <52AFF908.1010308@msapiro.net>
References: <70F3FF533B104AE7B97840F576C8E596@jedi>
 <52AFF908.1010308@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <11B750678E85480CBD507FD92F8D8513@jedi>

On 17/12/2013 09:11 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> On 12/16/2013 07:41 PM, MP Netsai wrote:
> > Can someone please point me in the right direction. I have just recently
> > built Mailman for virtual domains. I have followed the guidelines on
> > section 6.2.12 (Virtual Domains)
> > {http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node28.html}.
>
>
> Those instructions assume you are running a separate Mailman instance
> for each domain. Is this what you want? The more usual case is a single
> instance with the restriction that list names must be globally unique.
>

What I would rather need to have is a single instance of Mailman handling 
several domains with their separate urls. Not sure if that makes any sense?
>
> > I am using Exim 4.80
> > and Mailman 2.1.14 on a FreeBSD 9.1. The error on trying to deliver
> > message to a created list comes back as "unknown user", eg.
> >
> > exim -bt createdlist at mydomain.com
> > createdlist at mydomain.com is undeliverable: Unknown user
> >
> > I am not sure if my error is on my transport or router configuration.
> > Would very much appreciate some help.
>
>
> Without seeing your Exim router and transport definitions for Mailman,
> we can't guess what the problem might be.
>

My current working configuration on the single domain has the following 
router:

mailman_router:
driver = accept
require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
  local_part_suffix_optional
  local_part_suffix = -admin     : \
         -bounces   : -bounces+* : \
         -confirm   : -confirm+* : \
         -join      : -leave     : \
         -owner     : -request   : \
         -subscribe : -unsubscribe
  transport = mailman_transport

and its transport:

mailman_transport:
  driver = pipe
  command = MAILMAN_WRAP \
            '${if def:local_part_suffix \
                  {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
                  {post}}' \
            $local_part
  current_directory = MAILMAN_HOME
  home_directory = MAILMAN_HOME
  user = MAILMAN_USER
  group = MAILMAN_GROUP

Which according to the instructions I mentioned previously I had changed the 
router part as:

require_files = 
/virtual/${domain}/mailman/lists/${lc:$local_part}/config.pck

and the transport part:

command = /virtual/${domain}/mailman/mail/mailman \
            ${if def:local_part_suffix \
                 {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}}
                 {post}} \
              $local_part
  current_directory = /virtual/${domain}/mailman
  home_directory = /virtual/${domain}/mailman

These are the changes I made hoping that they would handle my virtual 
domains. That is when I started getting the delivery errors.

>Also, see the note at the beginning of
><http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node16.html>, i.e. follow
><http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html> rather than the Mailman
>installation manual for Exim 4

Noted. I am changing my configs accordingly according to this and see if 
there are any changes.

Many thanks,

Netsai. 


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 19 05:10:25 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:10:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery error to virtual list
In-Reply-To: <11B750678E85480CBD507FD92F8D8513@jedi>
References: <70F3FF533B104AE7B97840F576C8E596@jedi>
 <52AFF908.1010308@msapiro.net> <11B750678E85480CBD507FD92F8D8513@jedi>
Message-ID: <52B271B1.6070507@msapiro.net>

On 12/18/2013 06:32 PM, MP Netsai wrote:
> 
> What I would rather need to have is a single instance of Mailman
> handling several domains with their separate urls. Not sure if that
> makes any sense?


It makes sense, but it carries the restriction that list names must be
globally unique. I.e. if you have a list1 at domain.one, you can't have a
separate list1 at domain.two.


> My current working configuration on the single domain has the following
> router:
> 
> mailman_router:
> driver = accept
> require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
>  local_part_suffix_optional
>  local_part_suffix = -admin     : \
>         -bounces   : -bounces+* : \
>         -confirm   : -confirm+* : \
>         -join      : -leave     : \
>         -owner     : -request   : \
>         -subscribe : -unsubscribe
>  transport = mailman_transport
> 
> and its transport:
> 
> mailman_transport:
>  driver = pipe
>  command = MAILMAN_WRAP \
>            '${if def:local_part_suffix \
>                  {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
>                  {post}}' \
>            $local_part
>  current_directory = MAILMAN_HOME
>  home_directory = MAILMAN_HOME
>  user = MAILMAN_USER
>  group = MAILMAN_GROUP


The above router and transport should be OK.


> Which according to the instructions I mentioned previously I had changed
> the router part as:
>
> require_files =
> /virtual/${domain}/mailman/lists/${lc:$local_part}/config.pck
> 
> and the transport part:
> 
> command = /virtual/${domain}/mailman/mail/mailman \
>            ${if def:local_part_suffix \
>                 {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}}
>                 {post}} \
>              $local_part
>  current_directory = /virtual/${domain}/mailman
>  home_directory = /virtual/${domain}/mailman
> 
> These are the changes I made hoping that they would handle my virtual
> domains. That is when I started getting the delivery errors.


Because these assume each domain has it's own mailman instance in
/virtual/DOMAIN.NAME/mailman and these didn't exist in your case.

In other words, you don't need to change anything in Exim for virtual
domains with a single Mailman instance, but you do need an

add_virtualhost('virtual.web.domain', 'virtual.email.domain')

line in mm_cfg.py for each virtual host in addition to defining the
hosts and their host specific Mailman stuff in the web server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From root at unicode.org  Thu Dec 19 01:01:04 2013
From: root at unicode.org (Sarasvati)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:01:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists disappearing after 2.1.17 upgrade
Message-ID: <201312190001.rBJ014l7021806@sarasvati.unicode.org>

Hello.

My site isn't yet using Mailman, but have an installation
with some test lists.

I tried to find an answer in the archives, but no luck...

Today I upgraded Mailman from 2.1.15 to 2.1.17. And my public lists
just disappeared! I mean, when I go to the page:
http://www.unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/
I see only one test list that was made months ago. The lists I've made
within the last couple of days don't show up. (They never had any
traffic yet, they were just made.) Before the upgrade, they showed up
in the public listing. Now they don't. The individual admin pages for
them still seem to work, and the lists of subscribers are still there.

Anyone know how to fix this, to make the lists "visible" again?

Thanks for any help or pointers to solutions...
R.


From joemailgroups at gmail.com  Thu Dec 19 09:30:35 2013
From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 00:30:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions on Mailman list administration.
In-Reply-To: <52ACC3C4.4060701@msapiro.net>
References: <2C377FD9-8EBD-4B17-9519-E41B1E8BD9B4@gmail.com>
 <52ACC3C4.4060701@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <7225DB78-2827-4E4D-8977-FFB7BF2326A8@gmail.com>

Hi, Mark and other members.


On December 14, 2013, at 12:47 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 12/14/2013 01:13 AM, Joe wrote:
>> Hi, everyone.
>> 
>> I am the admin for 5 Mailman lists residing on the same server and part of the same domain. There are tasks I have been performing with great frequency lately and have started to question if there is a simpler way to perform them.
> 
> and later added:
>> Any admin I do must be done using the browser interface available in Mailman.
> 
> 
>> These are the questions:
>> 
>> 1. I often subscribe members to the 5 lists myself. As it is now I have to subscribe the same member to each one of the 5 lists individually. In case I wish to subscribe members to all 5 lists hosted is there a way to do it all at the same time ?
> 
> 
> You could create a script on your work station to issue 'wget' commands
> to do the subscribes. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9> and
> the post at
> <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041214.html>.
> 
> The script could be something like
> 
> #!/bin/sh
> for list in listname1 listname2 listname3 listname4 listname5; do
> wget -O - http://[domain.name]/mailman/admin/$list/members/add\
> ?subscribees="$1"\
> &adminpw=[admin_password]\
> &send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0\
> &send_notifications_to_list_owner=0
> done
> 
> If this were saved in a file named say sub5 and given execute
> permission, you could then in a terminal window do
> 
> /path/to/sub5 "John Doe <jdoe at example.com>"
> 
> to subscribe that user to the 5 lists. See the above linked post for
> more info on the wget command parameters.

Thank you Mark but this seems more complicated than subscribing them one list at a time.

>> 2. Is there a way to look at the lists hosted collectively ? For instance, in case I wish to read (on screen) or print a list with all subscribers in one or all lists is there a way to do it with all lists being displayed together on the same page or document ?
> 
> 
> You could script the answer to 3. below.
> 
> 
>> 3. Is there a way to print a list of subscribers along with their e-mail addresses ?
> 
> 
> Visit the roster at <http://host.name/mailman/roster/list_name directly
> or via the Visit Subscriber List button on the list's listinfo page.

The link above is broken. My browser shows a blank page with a message stating the address can't be found or does not exist.

In regards to printing the list of subscribers, can they be listed in chronological order with date (and perhaps time also) when they were subscribed ?

>> 4. In the Mass Subscriptions page I enter the subscriber's e-mail address to add him or her to one list. However, I am then forced to go to the Membership List page and enter the subscribers name. Is there a way to do both at the same time ? Can the e-mail address and name be entered on the same page to simplify this process ?
> 
> 
> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/YoA9>.
> 
> 
>> 5. Is there a way to print user statistics ? For instance, can I print a list with information on users such as the number of messages they have posted in a given time period, their country of origin, date when they were subscribed to the lists, e-mail address, and others ?
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/joemailgroups%40gmail.com


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 19 16:09:04 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 07:09:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists disappearing after 2.1.17 upgrade
In-Reply-To: <201312190001.rBJ014l7021806@sarasvati.unicode.org>
References: <201312190001.rBJ014l7021806@sarasvati.unicode.org>
Message-ID: <52B30C10.9040805@msapiro.net>

On 12/18/2013 04:01 PM, Sarasvati wrote:
> 
> Today I upgraded Mailman from 2.1.15 to 2.1.17. And my public lists
> just disappeared! I mean, when I go to the page:
> http://www.unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/
> I see only one test list that was made months ago. The lists I've made
> within the last couple of days don't show up. (They never had any
> traffic yet, they were just made.) Before the upgrade, they showed up
> in the public listing. Now they don't. The individual admin pages for
> them still seem to work, and the lists of subscribers are still there.


And I assume if you go to the specific listinfo, i.e.
http://www.unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/LISTNAME, that works too.

Double check that the list's web admin Privacy options... -> advertised
setting is Yes.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Thu Dec 19 16:11:02 2013
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 16:11:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET feature?
In-Reply-To: <52B1B96E.1080603@msapiro.net>
References: <F9184000FDC735CFB37F6C74@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
 <52B1B96E.1080603@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <0C2BB8FE4D6946A7AF27CD91@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

--On 18. Dezember 2013 07:04:14 -0800 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 12/18/2013 01:27 AM, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
>>
>> I installed Mailman 2.1.17 last night (upgrade from 2.1.15) and decided
>> to give the SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET feature a try, since we don't use
>> static subscribe forms. All seemed well, but this morning I noticed that
>> the listinfo page for some of the lists didn't work anymore. Here's an
>> example from the error log:
>>
> ...
>> admin(328):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 194,
>> in list_listinfo
>> admin(328):     mlist.internal_name() +
>> admin(328): TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'int' and 'str'
>
>
> It appears that you put something like
>
> SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET = Yes
>
> in mm_cfg.py. If you set SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET, it must be a string as
> for example:
>
> SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET= 'My little SecreT'
>
> This is intended to be a string unique to your site so an attacker can't
> compute the hash needed in sub_form_token.

Thanks, that solved the problem.

Cheers
Sebastian
-- 
    .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - Weyertal 121 (Geb?ude 133), Zimmer 2.02.:.
                 .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:.
   .:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-470-89578.:.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 19 16:18:37 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 07:18:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions on Mailman list administration.
In-Reply-To: <7225DB78-2827-4E4D-8977-FFB7BF2326A8@gmail.com>
References: <2C377FD9-8EBD-4B17-9519-E41B1E8BD9B4@gmail.com>
 <52ACC3C4.4060701@msapiro.net>
 <7225DB78-2827-4E4D-8977-FFB7BF2326A8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52B30E4D.1060609@msapiro.net>

On 12/19/2013 12:30 AM, Joe wrote:
> 
> On December 14, 2013, at 12:47 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>> You could create a script on your work station to issue 'wget' commands
>> to do the subscribes. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9> and
>> the post at
>> <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041214.html>.
>>
>> The script could be something like
>>
>> #!/bin/sh
>> for list in listname1 listname2 listname3 listname4 listname5; do
>> wget -O - http://[domain.name]/mailman/admin/$list/members/add\
>> ?subscribees="$1"\
>> &adminpw=[admin_password]\
>> &send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0\
>> &send_notifications_to_list_owner=0
>> done
>>
>> If this were saved in a file named say sub5 and given execute
>> permission, you could then in a terminal window do
>>
>> /path/to/sub5 "John Doe <jdoe at example.com>"
>>
>> to subscribe that user to the 5 lists. See the above linked post for
>> more info on the wget command parameters.
> 
> Thank you Mark but this seems more complicated than subscribing them one list at a time.


It's more complicated to set up, but once you set up and save the
script, it's only a single command to subscribe one person to all 5 lists.


>> Visit the roster at <http://host.name/mailman/roster/list_name directly
>> or via the Visit Subscriber List button on the list's listinfo page.
> 
> The link above is broken. My browser shows a blank page with a message stating the address can't be found or does not exist.


Did you substitute your host name and list name for host.name and list_name.

Also, in any case, you can go to the roster from the list's listinfo page.

But I realized later that this roster only shows addresses, not names.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9> for other methods.


> In regards to printing the list of subscribers, can they be listed in chronological order with date (and perhaps time also) when they were subscribed ?


No. Mailman does not keep that information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Thu Dec 19 17:40:07 2013
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 16:40:07 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some improvements to README.Exim4.Debian
In-Reply-To: <3dl2rV3gb4z7LjW@mail.python.org>
References: <3dl2rV3gb4z7LjW@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <f6114f7a20fc4c308568129663440b3d@DBXPR04MB047.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Narcis Garcia wrote:

>I've making a setup for a Debian 7 (wheezy) trying to follow strictly
>the guide in README.Exim4.Debian , but there are two things that I think
>lack to that file:

Hi,

The best place to discuss the Mailman Debian package is the pkg-mailman-hackers list:

http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-mailman-hackers

Thanks.
Andrew.

From mpn at icabs.co.zw  Fri Dec 20 04:15:00 2013
From: mpn at icabs.co.zw (MP Netsai)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 05:15:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery error to virtual list
In-Reply-To: <52B271B1.6070507@msapiro.net>
References: <70F3FF533B104AE7B97840F576C8E596@jedi>
 <52AFF908.1010308@msapiro.net> <11B750678E85480CBD507FD92F8D8513@jedi>
 <52B271B1.6070507@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <B461A70A6A8B46928C175C160CE0722A@jedi>

On 19/12/2013 06:10 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> In other words, you don't need to change anything in Exim for virtual
> domains with a single Mailman instance, but you do need an
> 
> add_virtualhost('virtual.web.domain', 'virtual.email.domain')
> 
> line in mm_cfg.py for each virtual host in addition to defining the
> hosts and their host specific Mailman stuff in the web server.

Awesome. This worked like a charm. 

Many thanks,

Nets.


From root at unicode.org  Thu Dec 19 18:43:32 2013
From: root at unicode.org (Sarasvati)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 11:43:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists disappearing after 2.1.17 upgrade
Message-ID: <201312191743.rBJHhWhE015421@sarasvati.unicode.org>

Mark,

Thank you so much! That particular FAQ helped,
and now I can see my lists again! :-) Yes, they were appearing
in the list info, and all were set public. I have only a single
domain, so I set 
	VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off in mm_cfg.py
and that did it.

Thanks again!

On 12/19/2013 7:09 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 12/18/2013 04:01 PM, Sarasvati wrote:
>> > 
>> > Today I upgraded Mailman from 2.1.15 to 2.1.17. And my public lists
>> > just disappeared! I mean, when I go to the page:
> .....
>
> And I assume if you go to the specific listinfo, i.e.
> http://www.unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/LISTNAME, that works too.
>
> Double check that the list's web admin Privacy options... -> advertised
> setting is Yes.
>
> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>.
>



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Dec 21 18:01:16 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 09:01:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error from Cron about Mailman on Debian
In-Reply-To: <CAOVpyhmJDpt7NY2s9R-dyospPKxX46fE57cN-wkeit7VRcRWUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOVpyhnxAPaX=U2UF83_cpTS=6-ncWcsfXHiP=aUd4-W9LfFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <52B24C38.5080404@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyhmJDpt7NY2s9R-dyospPKxX46fE57cN-wkeit7VRcRWUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52B5C95C.1030803@msapiro.net>

On 12/21/2013 12:29 AM, EyeLand wrote:
> 1) I receive error
> bin/check_perms -f
> -bash: bin/check_perms: No such file or directory


This refers to Mailman's bin/ directory, probably
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms.


> 2) folder not exists
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments
> 
> 3) on email I receive error from cron:
> 
> Cron <list at vps1> [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests ] &&
> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
> List: mailman: problem processing /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/digest.mbox:
> [Errno 13] Permission denied:
> '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments/20131216'


Digest processing for the 'mailman' list is attempting to create the
directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments/20131216
into which it will store scrubbed attachments. The process will create
the intermediate directories as needed.

If /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments doesn't exist
it's because the process didn't have sufficient permission to create it.
check_perms -f run as root should fix this.

Otherwise, check permissions as below.


>> Run Mailman's
>>
>> bin/check_perms -f
>>
>> as root. This should fix the problem. If not, all the directories
>>
>> /var/lib/mailman
>> /var/lib/mailman/archives
>> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/
>> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments
>>
>> should have mode 2775 (drwxrwsr-x) and group equal Mailman's group
>> (probably 'list' on Debian, and /var/lib/mailman/archives/private should
>> have the same group and either the mode should be 2770 (drwxrws---) and
>> the owner should be the web server user (probably www-data) or the mode
>> should be 2771 (drwxrws--x). See the Warning: box at
>> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ournet.biz at gmail.com  Tue Dec 24 23:02:33 2013
From: ournet.biz at gmail.com (EyeLand)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 00:02:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error from Cron about Mailman on Debian
In-Reply-To: <52B5C95C.1030803@msapiro.net>
References: <CAOVpyhnxAPaX=U2UF83_cpTS=6-ncWcsfXHiP=aUd4-W9LfFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <52B24C38.5080404@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyhmJDpt7NY2s9R-dyospPKxX46fE57cN-wkeit7VRcRWUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <52B5C95C.1030803@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAOVpyhmaOfG3+SLJqsJrkhZfSPT3dc_WdYocoRAzgR3Bk+YWNA@mail.gmail.com>

2013/12/21 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> On 12/21/2013 12:29 AM, EyeLand wrote:
>> 1) I receive error
>> bin/check_perms -f
>> -bash: bin/check_perms: No such file or directory
>
>
> This refers to Mailman's bin/ directory, probably
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms.
>
>
>> 2) folder not exists
>> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments
>>
>> 3) on email I receive error from cron:
>>
>> Cron <list at vps1> [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests ] &&
>> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
>> List: mailman: problem processing /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/digest.mbox:
>> [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>> '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments/20131216'
>
>
> Digest processing for the 'mailman' list is attempting to create the
> directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments/20131216
> into which it will store scrubbed attachments. The process will create
> the intermediate directories as needed.
>
> If /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments doesn't exist
> it's because the process didn't have sufficient permission to create it.
> check_perms -f run as root should fix this.
>
> Otherwise, check permissions as below.
>
>
>>> Run Mailman's
>>>
>>> bin/check_perms -f
>>>
>>> as root. This should fix the problem. If not, all the directories
>>>
>>> /var/lib/mailman
>>> /var/lib/mailman/archives
>>> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/
>>> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments
>>>
>>> should have mode 2775 (drwxrwsr-x) and group equal Mailman's group
>>> (probably 'list' on Debian, and /var/lib/mailman/archives/private should
>>> have the same group and either the mode should be 2770 (drwxrws---) and
>>> the owner should be the web server user (probably www-data) or the mode
>>> should be 2771 (drwxrws--x). See the Warning: box at
>>> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

I see "fixing", and I understand all is ok now?

root at vps1:~# cd /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments/
root at vps1:/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments# check_perms -f
directory must be at least 02775: /var/lib/mailman/logs (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/cron bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/scripts bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/templates bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/mail bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/locks bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/Mailman bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/icons bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/ko (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/lt (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/pt (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/no (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/pt_BR (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/ja (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/de (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/fr (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/nl (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/eu (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/ia (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/ro (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/el (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/ru (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/ast (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/sr (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/ca (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/zh_CN (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/ar (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/he (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/vi (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/et (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/sk (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/cs (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/sv (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/hr (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/tr (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/hu (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/sl (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/zh_TW (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/pl (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/uk (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/fi (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/es (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/gl (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/da (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/it (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/ko/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/lt/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/pt/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/no/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/pt_BR/LC_MESSAGES

(fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/ja/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/de/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/fr/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/eu/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/ia/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/ro/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/el/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/ru/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/ast/LC_MESSAGES (

fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/sr/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/ca/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/zh_CN/LC_MESSAGES

(fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/ar/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/he/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/vi/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/et/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/sk/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/cs/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/sv/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/hr/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/tr/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/hu/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/sl/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/zh_TW/LC_MESSAGES

(fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/pl/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/uk/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/fi/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/es/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/gl/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/da/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/messages/it/LC_MESSAGES (f

ixing)
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private bad group (has: www-data, expected
list) (fixi
                                      ng)
directory permissions must be 02770: /var/lib/mailman/archives/private (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman bad group (has: www-data,
expected lis
                                       t) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox bad group (has:
www-data, expecte
                                            d list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/index.html bad group (has:
www-data, e
                                      xpected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments bad group (has:
www-data,
                                     expected list) (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775:
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/a

ttachments (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases permissions must be 066x (got 0100644) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db owned by root (must be owned by list (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db permissions must be 066x (got 0100644) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman permissions must be 066x (got
0100644) (fi
                                       xing)
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db owned by root (must be owned
by list (f
                                     ixing)
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db permissions must be 066x (got
0100644)
                                    (fixing)
Problems found: 99
Re-run as list (or root) with -f flag to fix

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 24 23:30:47 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 14:30:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error from Cron about Mailman on Debian
In-Reply-To: <CAOVpyhmaOfG3+SLJqsJrkhZfSPT3dc_WdYocoRAzgR3Bk+YWNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOVpyhnxAPaX=U2UF83_cpTS=6-ncWcsfXHiP=aUd4-W9LfFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <52B24C38.5080404@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyhmJDpt7NY2s9R-dyospPKxX46fE57cN-wkeit7VRcRWUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <52B5C95C.1030803@msapiro.net>
 <CAOVpyhmaOfG3+SLJqsJrkhZfSPT3dc_WdYocoRAzgR3Bk+YWNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52BA0B17.9040606@msapiro.net>

On 12/24/2013 02:02 PM, EyeLand wrote:
> 
> I see "fixing", and I understand all is ok now?


Probably. You'll know for sure the next time cron/senddigests runs.

Specifically, these fixes

> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments bad group (has:
> www-data, expected list) (fixing)
> directory permissions must be 02775:
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/attachments (fixing)

probably solved the problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From brennan at columbia.edu  Mon Dec 30 17:49:07 2013
From: brennan at columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:49:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Folding whitespace
Message-ID: <46A2304BD12432CA044EBC51@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>


Happy New Year (almost)!

Archives show me that this topic went around a while back but I did not 
find a complete answer. It's not really a Mailman bug, but a Mailman choice 
between correct options.

When the Subject is folded into more than 1 line, Mailman inserts 
whitespace in the form of a TAB character, at the start of the continuation 
lines. Outlook, when unfolding, removes the CR LF but leaves whatever 
whitespace is there, in this case a TAB, so people tell me it looks ugly.

Microsoft, Microsoft...

I noticed that in Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py, we go out of our way to 
change email.header's continuation_ws from the default of one space to be 
one tab. Both are correct, since the standard just says whitespace, but if 
we used one space it would trick Outlook into doing the right thing.

Why the tab? CookHeaders.py gets pretty hairy so I feel like I'm missing 
something.

Joseph Brennan
Columbia University Information Technology





From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Dec 31 03:04:32 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 11:04:32 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Folding whitespace
In-Reply-To: <46A2304BD12432CA044EBC51@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>
References: <46A2304BD12432CA044EBC51@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <87zjnhkc7j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Joseph Brennan writes:

 > Why the tab?

I would suppose because it looks better in character-oriented display.
On most terminals, a tab will expand to 8 spaces, making the fact that
the header is folded very obvious.  It won't hurt anything if you
change it to space.  This isn't going to be a true fix, though,
because IIRC Mailman *does* insert that space, and it will remain as a
doubled space in the recipient's MUA display.

Note that in recent versions of the standard, the handling of FWS has
been clarified: the proper way to unfold is to remove the CRLF, and
change nothing else.  This implies that the proper way to fold is to
find some whitespace and insert a CRLF (and nothing else) before that
whitespace.

Not that it matters, but I think that graphical MUAs are (as usual)
broken here.  They are going to reformat unstructured fields anyway
(treating the single logical line as a paragraph, and wrapping long
ones), so they might as well do the sane thing and interpret all
whitespace as merely a single word separator, then wrap that.  This is
almost never a mistake in my experience.  Not even Pythonistas expect
whitespace to be significant *within* a line! :-)



From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 05:36:28 2013
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (thufir)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:36:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cgi 404
Message-ID: <52C249CC.3020800@gmail.com>

I get a 404:

thufir at dur:~$
thufir at dur:~$ mail -f Maildir/
"/home/thufir/Maildir/": 3 messages
 >    1 thufir at dur.bouncem                   15/581   test Mon, 30 Dec 
2013 19:15:31 -0800
      2 thufir at dur.bouncem                   15/581   test Mon, 30 Dec 
2013 19:18:16 -0800
      3 mailman-owner at dur.                   57/2198  Your new mailing 
list: mailman
? q
Held 3 messages in /home/thufir/Maildir/
thufir at dur:~$
thufir at dur:~$ ll /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/mailman
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Dec 30 20:06 
/etc/apache2/sites-enabled/mailman -> /etc/mailman/apache.conf
thufir at dur:~$
thufir at dur:~$


even though dovecot-postfix seems to be working well with mailman, so 
far as I can tell.


The fine manual says:

"*Problem:* All Mailman web pages give a 404 File not found error.

*Solution:* Your web server has not been set up properly for handling 
Mailman's CGI programs. Make sure you have:

configured the web server to give permissions to $prefix/cgi-bin"



Isn't there a different URL I can use instead?  I seem to recall 
something along these lines.


thanks,

Thufir

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Dec 31 17:03:55 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2014 01:03:55 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  cgi 404
In-Reply-To: <52C249CC.3020800@gmail.com>
References: <52C249CC.3020800@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87y531j9ck.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

thufir writes:

 > Isn't there a different URL I can use instead?

Sure.  Those URLs are chosen because they require minimal setup in
many webservers, but the base URLs are configurable.

You can use any URL you want, but (1) you need to teach your webserver
to invoke the CGI script (in Apache this would be a ScriptAlias) and
where to find logos and stuff (resp. Alias) and (2) you need to tell
Mailman about it in mm_cfg.py:

    #-------------------------------------------------------------
    # If you change these, you have to configure your http server
    # accordingly (Alias and ScriptAlias directives in most httpds)
    DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'
    PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'
    IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'

Also, if you're using virtual hosts you may need to fiddle with
bin/fix_url.py.