From adamsca at gmail.com  Mon Apr  1 17:22:27 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 08:22:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin approval messages not being sent
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303281725460500ab922622@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAA13W+_NuGdcz4bp365UWA5mTxCdKD0rr3hVaLebQy_d6yDjVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1993201303281725460500ab922622@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAA13W+-hfUkKWqTpNThSYwp8SAY7Dsdqn97HNtBP0Q=Page2kA@mail.gmail.com>

I see the message in the Mailman smtp log going to the list and the two
list owners. I also see the message directed to the list owner address in
the MTA logs. However, the message is not actually being delivered to the
list owner via the alias. I have discovered that, using owner addresses
outside of our subnet work for getting confirmation approvals. However,
they don't for addresses inside our subnet. That is strange because the
owner addresses are deliverable and receive mail through list traffic via
Mailman.


On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Christopher Adams wrote:
>
> >On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Are you saying that you see a 'held subscription' message in Mailman's
> >> 'vette' log?
> >>
> >
> >Yes, it shows in the vette.log as being held.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Do the held subscriptions appear in the web admindb interface?
> >>
> >>
> >> >The list has the *admin_immed_notify* set to 'yes'. The cron
> >> /cron/checkdbs
> >> >runs every morning at 8 am.
> >>
> >>
> >> Does the held subscription appear in the daily summary of moderator
> >> requests?
> >>
> >
> >Yes, it is sent successfully every morning at 8 am. Until I get this
> fixed,
> >I have increased this to every 2 hrs.
>
>
> The notice to the owner(s)/moderator(s) is sent by the same process
> immediately following writing the vette log entry contingent only on
> admin_immed_notify being True.
>
> The message is sent From: and To: the listname-owner address with
> envelope from the listname-bounces address.
>
> Check Mailman's smtp log for entries with the same or perhaps + 1 or 2
> seconds time stamp as the vette log entry. There should be a send for
> 1 recip for the list followed immediately by a send for a number of
> recips = to the number of owner(s)/moderator(s). Do you see these? How
> about in the MTA logs?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  1 18:58:05 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 09:58:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin approval messages not being sent
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+-hfUkKWqTpNThSYwp8SAY7Dsdqn97HNtBP0Q=Page2kA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA13W+_NuGdcz4bp365UWA5mTxCdKD0rr3hVaLebQy_d6yDjVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1993201303281725460500ab922622@MSAPIRO>
	<CAA13W+-hfUkKWqTpNThSYwp8SAY7Dsdqn97HNtBP0Q=Page2kA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5159BC9D.5070404@msapiro.net>

On 4/1/2013 8:22 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> I see the message in the Mailman smtp log going to the list and the two
> list owners. I also see the message directed to the list owner address
> in the MTA logs. However, the message is not actually being delivered to
> the list owner via the alias. I have discovered that, using owner
> addresses outside of our subnet work for getting confirmation approvals.
> However, they don't for addresses inside our subnet.


This is what I think I understand from the above.

1) The notice is sent as expected by Mailman to LISTNAME-owner at ...
2) The message to LISTNAME-owner at ... is received by Mailman and resent
by Mailman to all the owner and moderator addresses.
3) Those owner and moderator addresses outside your local subnet receive
the notice, but those inside your local subnet do not.
4) Presumably, the same is true for any mail sent to the
LISTNAME-owner at ... address, i.e., the non-delivery issue does not depend
on the mail to LISTNAME-owner at ... having been generated by Mailman itself.

Is this understanding correct?

Do the 'inside' owner/moderator addresses have a fully qualified domain
name?


> That is strange
> because the owner addresses are deliverable and receive mail through
> list traffic via Mailman.


Owners and moderators do not receive list posts. Only members receive
list posts. There is no connection within Mailman between an
owner/moderator address and a list member address which may be the same.
See <http://wiki.list.org/x/5YA9>.

In any case, if my understanding above is correct, and if the
owner/moderator 'inside' addresses are fully qualified, this is an MTA
issue, not a Mailman issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Mon Apr  1 20:12:28 2013
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 14:12:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Documenting a list-specific change
Message-ID: <p0624080dcd7f7daf578b@[192.168.209.11]>

All --

I hope this is simple.  I changed the preferred_language for a list via the admin web interface last week, and some downstream processes are no longer working.  Before I blame the change in the list for the failure, I need to know rather precisely when I made that change (i.e. Monday vs. Thursday).  

Is there a  simple way to figure this out?

-- Drew Tenenholz

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  1 20:56:40 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 11:56:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Documenting a list-specific change
In-Reply-To: <p0624080dcd7f7daf578b@[192.168.209.11]>
Message-ID: <PC19932013040111564000937ef04085@MSAPIRO>

Drew Tenenholz wrote:
>
>I hope this is simple.  I changed the preferred_language for a list via the admin web interface last week, and some downstream processes are no longer working.  Before I blame the change in the list for the failure, I need to know rather precisely when I made that change (i.e. Monday vs. Thursday).  
>
>Is there a  simple way to figure this out?


Look in the web server logs for an http POST to the list's
admin/LISTNAME/language page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Mon Apr  1 21:08:57 2013
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 15:08:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Documenting a list-specific change
In-Reply-To: <PC19932013040111564000937ef04085@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19932013040111564000937ef04085@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <p06240810cd7f8b8595d5@[192.168.209.11]>

Mark --

Perfect!  Thanks.

P.S.  Mailman is not to blame in this case, which means that I can keep the settings change and we can look alsewhere for the problem.

At 11:56 AM -0700 4/1/13, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Drew Tenenholz wrote:
>>
>>I hope this is simple.  I changed the preferred_language for a list via the admin web interface last week, and some downstream processes are no longer working.  Before I blame the change in the list for the failure, I need to know rather precisely when I made that change (i.e. Monday vs. Thursday). 
>>
>>Is there a  simple way to figure this out?
>
>
>Look in the web server logs for an http POST to the list's
>admin/LISTNAME/language page.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From nxnw at rogers.com  Mon Apr  1 22:17:35 2013
From: nxnw at rogers.com (Allan Herman)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 16:17:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion Server Issue after migration from
	Lion
In-Reply-To: <PC19932013032916015202966bd04b5c@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19932013032916015202966bd04b5c@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <05A7640C-585A-4C12-9595-7A4D858171E2@rogers.com>

Actually, I think this makes sense now. 

Unless the sender is authenticated, I reject messages at the handshake if the addressee is not a local recipient. Local recipients include aliases. 

I think the next directive is the key:

local_recipient_maps = proxy:unix:passwd.byname $alias_maps

My suspicion is that the addressee is evaluated in the above order (first, actual accounts, then aliases). In this flukey instance, because "mailman" is an actual system account, it is evaluated as such before postfix evaluates it as an alias to a listserver account. It then rejects it because it is a system account rather than a user account (uid falls below minimum allowed: 78 < 501). This is why mailman-request at ... works, but not mailman at ...

Accordingly, I don't think anything is actually wrong that warrants further digging. I only use the "mailman" list, which was set up by default, for testing. Any reason I can't delete it and make a "testing" list?

Thanks.

On 03-29-2013, at 7:01 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Allan Herman wrote:
> 
>> Here are the logs.
>> 
>> Mar 29 18:14:08 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/postscreen[2793]: PASS NEW [98.136.217.31]:34253
>> Mar 29 18:14:08 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: connect from nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com[98.136.217.31]
>> Mar 29 18:14:09 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: sacl_check: mbr_user_name_to_uuid(mailman at yyyyyy.ca) failed: No such file or directory
>> Mar 29 18:14:09 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: warning: recipient rejected <mailman> uid falls below minimum allowed: 78 < 501
>> Mar 29 18:14:09 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com[98.136.217.31]: 550 5.1.1 <mailman at yyyyyy.ca>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; from=<aaaaaaa at bbbbb.com> to=<mailman at yyyyyy.ca> proto=SMTP helo=<nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
>> Mar 29 18:14:09 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: disconnect from nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com[98.136.217.31]
>> 
>> Either there is no alias for mailman or postfix is identifying mailman with the user "mailman" before processing aliases. I though postfix precesses aliases first, however.
> 
> 
> Clearly, Postfix is doing something to validate users way before alias
> processing. Alias processing does not occur until the message is
> accepted and queued and ready to be delivered by the 'local' transport.
> 
> What does 'postconf -n' show? In particular, what's
> smtpd_recipient_restrictions?
> 
> Note that <http://www.google.com/#q=postfix+sacl_check> gets a ton of
> Mac OS X Lion hits, but a cursory look didn't show much in the way of
> solutions.
> 
> Whereas
> <http://www.google.com/search?q=sacl&sitesearch=www.postfix.org> finds
> nothing. Is this some Apple specific Postfix check?
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 


From adamsca at gmail.com  Mon Apr  1 22:33:32 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 13:33:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin approval messages not being sent
In-Reply-To: <5159BC9D.5070404@msapiro.net>
References: <CAA13W+_NuGdcz4bp365UWA5mTxCdKD0rr3hVaLebQy_d6yDjVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1993201303281725460500ab922622@MSAPIRO>
	<CAA13W+-hfUkKWqTpNThSYwp8SAY7Dsdqn97HNtBP0Q=Page2kA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5159BC9D.5070404@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAA13W+8XbpQjHH=OcS0gbdHu9_ni_q63WJsjQR6kGv60bW=TzQ@mail.gmail.com>

I did not mean to imply that there was a connection between the owners and
list posts, just that Mailman list traffic is flowing without problems.

Your assumptions 1-3 are correct. As for #4, if I understand you correctly,
I can send mail outside of Mailman to the listname-owner address and it
delivers correcty regardless of whether the list owners are inside the
local subnet. The problem only seems to occur when sending through the
Mailman server and Postfix. I have been considering that Postfix is the
possible problem, but since list traffic is working fine, I don't know
exactly what to address with the MTA.

The 'inside' addresses are fully qualified.

It is also possible that the central server that mail is routed through is
not looking kindly on the admin notifications, so I will look in to that as
well as problems with Postfix.

Thank you for taking time to reply.


On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 4/1/2013 8:22 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> > I see the message in the Mailman smtp log going to the list and the two
> > list owners. I also see the message directed to the list owner address
> > in the MTA logs. However, the message is not actually being delivered to
> > the list owner via the alias. I have discovered that, using owner
> > addresses outside of our subnet work for getting confirmation approvals.
> > However, they don't for addresses inside our subnet.
>
>
> This is what I think I understand from the above.
>
> 1) The notice is sent as expected by Mailman to LISTNAME-owner at ...
> 2) The message to LISTNAME-owner at ... is received by Mailman and resent
> by Mailman to all the owner and moderator addresses.
> 3) Those owner and moderator addresses outside your local subnet receive
> the notice, but those inside your local subnet do not.
> 4) Presumably, the same is true for any mail sent to the
> LISTNAME-owner at ... address, i.e., the non-delivery issue does not depend
> on the mail to LISTNAME-owner at ... having been generated by Mailman itself.
>
> Is this understanding correct?
>
> Do the 'inside' owner/moderator addresses have a fully qualified domain
> name?
>
>
> > That is strange
> > because the owner addresses are deliverable and receive mail through
> > list traffic via Mailman.
>
>
> Owners and moderators do not receive list posts. Only members receive
> list posts. There is no connection within Mailman between an
> owner/moderator address and a list member address which may be the same.
> See <http://wiki.list.org/x/5YA9>.
>
> In any case, if my understanding above is correct, and if the
> owner/moderator 'inside' addresses are fully qualified, this is an MTA
> issue, not a Mailman issue.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  1 22:47:06 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 13:47:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion Server Issue after migration
	fromLion
In-Reply-To: <05A7640C-585A-4C12-9595-7A4D858171E2@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013040113470606565f9c2c96@MSAPIRO>

Allan Herman wrote:
>
>Accordingly, I don't think anything is actually wrong that warrants further digging. I only use the "mailman" list, which was set up by default, for testing. Any reason I can't delete it and make a "testing" list?


You can't delete it for a few reasons, the most important of which is
mailmanctl will refuse to run the qrunners if it isn't there. Also,
there will be issues with cron/mailpasswds

Further, the site list address is exposed on the web admin and listinfo
overview pages.

But, its name doesn't have to be 'mailman'. You can call it anything
you want by putting, e.g.,

MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'testing'

in mm_cfg.py, however 'testing' probably isn't the best name as monthly
reminders are From: the -owner of this list and its posting address is
exposed on the web admin and listinfo overview pages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  1 23:40:32 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 14:40:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin approval messages not being sent
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+8XbpQjHH=OcS0gbdHu9_ni_q63WJsjQR6kGv60bW=TzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013040114403208909e4e559a@MSAPIRO>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>I can send mail outside of Mailman to the listname-owner address and it
>delivers correcty regardless of whether the list owners are inside the
>local subnet. The problem only seems to occur when sending through the
>Mailman server and Postfix.


When you send mail originating outside Mailman to the listname-owner
address it is ultimately delivered to Postfix from Mailman for the
owner/moderator recipients in exactly the same way as a Mailman
generated notice.

There are a few differences in the headers of the message ultimately
sent to the owner/moderator recipients and of course, the bodies are
different (but you could test manually sending a copy of an actual
notice).

The major difference is the From: header which in the cast of the
message you send has hour address and in the case of the notice has
the listname-owner address. The notice also has headers like

Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: listname at example.com
X-Mailman-Version: ...
List-Id: ...
X-List-Administrivia: yes

that probably aren't in the manually generated message.

Perhaps the issue is that there is spam filtering in the local network
that discards Precedence: bulk messages destined for local recipients.


>It is also possible that the central server that mail is routed through is
>not looking kindly on the admin notifications, so I will look in to that as
>well as problems with Postfix.


Yes, particularly the Precedence: header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From franc at library.iisc.ernet.in  Tue Apr  2 13:18:26 2013
From: franc at library.iisc.ernet.in (franc at library.iisc.ernet.in)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 16:48:26 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Approvd messages don't get broadcasted
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1304021632000.16858@library.iisc.ernet.in>

Hi, We have been using the Mailman software for almost 14 years now. At
present, we are on ver 2.1.12 / RH Fedora 9 OS.

I'm the moderator of a discussion list, which was started almost 2 decades
ago. There are more than 7K members on the list.

Off and on, I have been experiencing the following issue:

Some of the approved messages, doesn't get broadcasted. They do get
archived, though. One such recent message is accessible at
http://ncsi.iisc.ernet.in/pipermail/lis-forum/2013-March/014786.html

I have noticed that messages that contain non-ascii chars (typically, 
content copied and pasted directly from a word processor) exibit such a 
behaviour. When such messages are edited (removal on non-ascii) and 
forwarded to the list by the list moderator they do get broadcasted.

I have also noticed that many of the postings that contain non-ascii chars 
do get broadcasted upon approval.

Could you pl let me know what is it that causes such a behaviour and how
do we overcome it.

Thanks for your time and help.

  - Francis

JRD Tata Library,
IISc, Bangalore, India

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  2 19:05:10 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 10:05:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Approvd messages don't get broadcasted
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1304021632000.16858@library.iisc.ernet.in>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304021005100031f087fc29@MSAPIRO>

franc at library.iisc.ernet.in wrote:
>
>Off and on, I have been experiencing the following issue:
>
>Some of the approved messages, doesn't get broadcasted. They do get
>archived, though. One such recent message is accessible at
>http://ncsi.iisc.ernet.in/pipermail/lis-forum/2013-March/014786.html
>
[...]
>
>Could you pl let me know what is it that causes such a behaviour and how
>do we overcome it.


What entries are there in Mailman's log files with time stamps near
"Fri Mar 8 10:09:05 IST 2013" (the time this message was archived)?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jdanield at free.fr  Wed Apr  3 08:21:44 2013
From: jdanield at free.fr (jdd)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 08:21:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept not accepeted
In-Reply-To: <514A0CB0.4050807@msapiro.net>
References: <PC199320130320090029089724adbb5e@Notebook-09>
	<514A03FB.4080605@free.fr> <514A0CB0.4050807@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <515BCA78.5070600@free.fr>

Le 20/03/2013 20:23, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :

> The headers in the admindb interface detail page are enough (click the
> message # link on the summary listing).

well finally I received one such mail (it's more or less monthly :-)

it appears to be from a subscriber mailing list (not mine). The "from" 
is in my "to be accepted" list, but its moderated. I would like to 
have these mails accepted without moderation (but not all bulk 
messages from anywhere :-().

part of the headers below (I removed the domain part of the amails 
adresses).

Can I manage this?

thanks
jdd

part of the mailman comments:

comments in the aministrative page:

De: 	fcouchet at april.org
Objet: 	[Lettre April] Lettre d'information interne des adh?rents de 
l'April du 1er avril 2013
Motif: 	Message avec destination implicite
Re?us: 	Tue Apr 2 09:27:01 2013

reject message proposed:

Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. Try
reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in the 
To: or
Cc: fields.

part of the headers:

Return-Path: <all-april-owner@
X-Original-To: presidence@
Delivered-To: presidence@
Received: from pavot.april.org (pavot.april.org [86.65.39.24])


From: Frederic Couchet <fcouchet@
To: all-april@
Organization: Organization: April - http://www.april.org/
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 09:22:15 +0200
Message-ID: <87hajp8kig.fsf@
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Validation-by: fcouchet@
Subject: [Lettre April] =?UTF-8?Q?Lettre_d=27information_interne_des_adh?=
  =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=A9rents_de_l=27April_du_1er_avril_2013?=
Reply-To: contact at april.org
X-Loop: all-april at april.org
X-Sequence: 3894
Errors-to: all-april-owner@
Precedence: list
Precedence: bulk
Sender: all-april-request@
X-no-archive: yes



-- 
http://www.dodin.org
http://jddtube.dodin.org/20120616-52-highway_v1115

From franc at library.iisc.ernet.in  Wed Apr  3 08:40:29 2013
From: franc at library.iisc.ernet.in (franc at library.iisc.ernet.in)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 12:10:29 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Approvd messages don't get broadcasted
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201304021005100031f087fc29@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1993201304021005100031f087fc29@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1304031202440.21936@library.iisc.ernet.in>

On Tue, 2 Apr 2013, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> franc at library.iisc.ernet.in wrote:
>>
>> Off and on, I have been experiencing the following issue:
>>
>> Some of the approved messages, doesn't get broadcasted. They do get
>> archived, though. One such recent message is accessible at
>> http://ncsi.iisc.ernet.in/pipermail/lis-forum/2013-March/014786.html
>>
> [...]
>>
>> Could you pl let me know what is it that causes such a behaviour and how
>> do we overcome it.
>
>
> What entries are there in Mailman's log files with time stamps near
> "Fri Mar 8 10:09:05 IST 2013" (the time this message was archived)?

Thanks for the replay.

I have searched all the log files, but couldn't locate the pattern, "Fri 
Mar 8 10:09:05 IST 2013" in any of the log files. I even tried the 
following caommands, but no match is found:

grep -r "Fri Mar 8 10:09:05 IST 2013" *

grep -r "Fri Mar 9" *

grep -r "Mar 8" *

The following log files are located in the 'bin' directory. 
-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman  6044575 Mar 25 11:12 bounce
-rw-rw-r-- 1 root    mailman  1619626 Apr  2 15:50 error
-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman   172191 Apr  1 10:48 locks
-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman   231131 Apr  1 16:13 mischief
-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman  3075673 Apr  2 14:12 post
-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman   297638 Apr  3 12:31 qrunner
-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 47281636 Apr  3 12:48 smtp
-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman  7681705 Jan 31 15:54 smtp-failure
-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman  4296065 Apr  2 18:39 subscribe
-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 16958139 Apr  3 12:38 vette

  - Francis


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Apr  3 09:23:23 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 16:23:23 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Approvd messages don't get broadcasted
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1304031202440.21936@library.iisc.ernet.in>
References: <PC1993201304021005100031f087fc29@MSAPIRO>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1304031202440.21936@library.iisc.ernet.in>
Message-ID: <874nfo9ixg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

franc at library.iisc.ernet.in writes:

 > grep -r "Fri Mar 8 10:09:05 IST 2013" *

Try

    grep -r "Fri Mar  8 10:09:05 IST 2013" *

(note two spaces before 8 in "Mar  8")

Grep is not very smart that way....

From franc at library.iisc.ernet.in  Wed Apr  3 09:55:41 2013
From: franc at library.iisc.ernet.in (franc at library.iisc.ernet.in)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 13:25:41 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Approvd messages don't get broadcasted
In-Reply-To: <874nfo9ixg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1993201304021005100031f087fc29@MSAPIRO>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1304031202440.21936@library.iisc.ernet.in>
	<874nfo9ixg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1304031322070.23254@library.iisc.ernet.in>

On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> franc at library.iisc.ernet.in writes:
>
> > grep -r "Fri Mar 8 10:09:05 IST 2013" *
>
> Try
>
>    grep -r "Fri Mar  8 10:09:05 IST 2013" *
>
> (note two spaces before 8 in "Mar  8")
>
> Grep is not very smart that way....

Thanks for the replay. I used the grep command as you have suggested, but 
it doesn't help. Had a look at the archived msg in question. There is only 
once space between Mar and 8.

  - Francis


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Wed Apr  3 14:11:25 2013
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 08:11:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept not accepeted
In-Reply-To: <515BCA78.5070600@free.fr>
References: <PC199320130320090029089724adbb5e@Notebook-09>
	<514A03FB.4080605@free.fr> <514A0CB0.4050807@msapiro.net>
	<515BCA78.5070600@free.fr>
Message-ID: <515C1C6D.5080903@Damon-Family.org>

On 4/3/13 2:21 AM, jdd wrote:
> Le 20/03/2013 20:23, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :
>
>> The headers in the admindb interface detail page are enough (click the
>> message # link on the summary listing).
>
> well finally I received one such mail (it's more or less monthly :-)
>
> it appears to be from a subscriber mailing list (not mine). The "from"
> is in my "to be accepted" list, but its moderated. I would like to
> have these mails accepted without moderation (but not all bulk
> messages from anywhere :-().
>
> part of the headers below (I removed the domain part of the amails
> adresses).
>
> Can I manage this?
>
> thanks
> jdd
>
> part of the mailman comments:
>
> comments in the aministrative page:
>
> De:     fcouchet at april.org
> Objet:     [Lettre April] Lettre d'information interne des adh?rents
> de l'April du 1er avril 2013
> Motif:     Message avec destination implicite
> Re?us:     Tue Apr 2 09:27:01 2013
>
> reject message proposed:
>
> Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. Try
> reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in the
> To: or
> Cc: fields.
>
>
This indicates that your list is setup to not allow bcc, and that the
destination address is not consider a valid destination address for this
list. Add it to

Privacy / Recipient Filters / Alias names (regexps) which qualify as
explicit to or cc destination names for this list.

Adding the list to the accepted sender list just says it will pass the
sender must be a member test, it doesn't bypass the other tests.

-- 
Richard Damon


From jdanield at free.fr  Wed Apr  3 14:35:27 2013
From: jdanield at free.fr (jdd)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 14:35:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept not accepeted
In-Reply-To: <515C1C6D.5080903@Damon-Family.org>
References: <PC199320130320090029089724adbb5e@Notebook-09>
	<514A03FB.4080605@free.fr> <514A0CB0.4050807@msapiro.net>
	<515BCA78.5070600@free.fr> <515C1C6D.5080903@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <515C220F.1080304@free.fr>

Le 03/04/2013 14:11, Richard Damon a ?crit :

>> De:     fcouchet at aprixxxx


> This indicates that your list is setup to not allow bcc, and that the
> destination address

I added the "from" adress (fcouchet at aprixxxx) in the said field, is 
this you call "destination adress"?

thanks
jdd


-- 
http://www.dodin.org
http://jddtube.dodin.org/20120616-52-highway_v1115

From deansuhr at deansuhr.us  Wed Apr  3 17:30:13 2013
From: deansuhr at deansuhr.us (Dean Suhr)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 08:30:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Requests -- three questions
Message-ID: <0F3A260A-E8EA-4665-A7DC-9A04DC718FEA@deansuhr.us>

Greetings,

A couple of quick questions about Subscription Request on the List Admin page:
 
1) Is there a way to sort the Subscription Requests from newest to oldest?  We approve each request and sometimes  we have quite a few pending as we reach out to folks for clarification as to their eligibility to join closed lists.  It would be good to see new requests at the top.

2) Can the date of an Admin Request become part of the display?  Again, I am happy to modify a file in my install if you can point me to the correct one.  What is the field name for the date of a request?

3) I would like to trim the text in the "name" filed to display only the first 50 characters or so.  Is there a file I can modify to make this happen?  We use the Name field for the subscriber to share a brief introduction and when the field is wide the admin displays scroll off the right side of screen (too wide).

Maybe these can become feature requests as well.

Thanks for your help,

Dean
--


What is MLD?: http://mldfoundation.org/awareness-video.html




From postmaster at attac-m.org  Wed Apr  3 02:33:19 2013
From: postmaster at attac-m.org (=?UTF-8?B?QXR0YWMgTcO8bmNoZW4gLSBQb3N0bWFzdGVy?=)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 02:33:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting a specific list member to read-only
Message-ID: <515B78CF.9090801@attac-m.org>

Hi all,

I could need some help with a task I haven't seen covered in the FAQ or
by a Google search:

I'd like to temporarily block a member of a list from posting messages.
This member is already set to "moderated" so I can reject/discard his
mails manually. I cannot ban him entirely because he is entitled to read
the list still by our community rules. Is there a way I can have his
mails automatically rejected or discarded to make him a read-only
member? I'd need something like a inbox filter rule for this specific
list member's address, i.e. blacklist his postings without removing him
from the roster.

Thanks for any hints,
Hagen Pfaff
postmaster at attac-m.org

From dtenenholz at rcn.com  Tue Apr  2 23:22:27 2013
From: dtenenholz at rcn.com (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 17:22:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not arriving - deep into filtering and
	delivery
Message-ID: <p06240818cd80f764d60d@[192.168.209.11]>

All --

How is the unique message ID for an outbound message created?  I'm seeing a differences in the domain label attached to outgoing messages, and I wonder if this is preventing mail from arriving to a particular (and maybe other) users.

One of my users is having trouble receiving mail from a couple of lists.  She gets mail from a couple other lists ont he same server, so we're trying to figure out what the problem is.  The current prime suspects are outbound filtering on the network where the server is located, or inbound filtering a tthe ISP (above the user's account, since nothing is going into her 'spam' mailbox).

This is a concern, since she is a principal contributor to our announce-only list (so is paying very close attention to mail sent in and mail received), and it may indicate that messages from this server (or specific lists) are being blocked, which would have an effect on other subscribers.

I've been through the mailman logs and the MTA logs, and I can see that we are, indeed sending mail to her address.  It is just not arriving.  I wonder if the following has anything to do with it.

So, in doing all of this analysis, I came accross something odd.  Two Mesages that DID ARRIVE look like this in my /var/log/maillog:

Mar 31 21:01:31 promedmail postfix/cleanup[32767]: 27A9F758035: message-id=<5158a425.6590700a.0879.ffffb894 at mx.google.com>
Mar 31 21:01:31 promedmail postfix/qmgr[4400]: 27A9F758035: from=<promed-fra-bounces at promedmail.org>, size=14135, nrcpt=311 (queue active)
...
Mar 31 21:01:32 promedmail postfix/smtp[307]: 27A9F758035: to=<pollackmp at mindspring.com>, relay=tummms.chboston.org[134.174.12.42]:25, delay=1.2, delays=0.73/0.07/0.04/0.37, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 1ayt400cs0-1 Message accepted for delivery)

and

Apr  2 02:29:52 promedmail postfix/cleanup[6635]: 54981758035: message-id=<515A428B.50808 at gmail.com>
Apr  2 02:29:52 promedmail postfix/qmgr[4400]: 54981758035: from=<promed-eafr-bounces at promedmail.org>, size=8554, nrcpt=480 (queue active)
...
Apr  2 02:29:52 promedmail postfix/qmgr[4400]: 54981758035: from=<promed-eafr-bounces at promedmail.org>, size=8554, nrcpt=480 (queue active)


while messages that DID NOT ARRIVE all sort of look like this:

Mar 30 04:00:35 promedmail postfix/cleanup[18138]: ACCE0758034: message-id=<201303300400.r2U402Tx030401 at healthmap.chip.org>
Mar 30 04:00:35 promedmail postfix/qmgr[4400]: ACCE0758034: from=<promed-daily-update-bounces at promedmail.org>, size=9316, nrcpt=500 (queue active)
...
Mar 30 04:00:36 promedmail postfix/smtp[18143]: ACCE0758034: to=<pollackmp at mindspring.com>, relay=tummms.chboston.org[134.174.12.42]:25, conn_use=8, delay=2.1, delays=1.1/0.46/0/0.55, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 1b42w6x590-8 Message accepted for delivery)


OK, if you've gotten this far, you'll see that the message-id ends in either mx.google.com or gmail.com (which are popular and common, and go through) and failing messages end in my specialized domain healthmap.chip.org.  Is this the sort of thing that causes a problem with delivery?  Are we maybe missing some sort of PTR records in the DNS?  That is fixable, but I don't understand why some messages get the 'special' domain and others do not.

Thanks for any help you can offer,
Drew Tenenholz

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Wed Apr  3 20:20:34 2013
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 20:20:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not arriving - deep into filtering and
 delivery
In-Reply-To: <p06240818cd80f764d60d@[192.168.209.11]>
References: <p06240818cd80f764d60d@[192.168.209.11]>
Message-ID: <20130403182034.GA14520@charite.de>

* Drew Tenenholz <dtenenholz at rcn.com>:

> So, in doing all of this analysis, I came accross something odd.  Two Mesages that DID ARRIVE look like this in my /var/log/maillog:
> 
> Mar 31 21:01:31 promedmail postfix/cleanup[32767]: 27A9F758035: message-id=<5158a425.6590700a.0879.ffffb894 at mx.google.com>
> Mar 31 21:01:31 promedmail postfix/qmgr[4400]: 27A9F758035: from=<promed-fra-bounces at promedmail.org>, size=14135, nrcpt=311 (queue active)
> ...
> Mar 31 21:01:32 promedmail postfix/smtp[307]: 27A9F758035: to=<pollackmp at mindspring.com>, relay=tummms.chboston.org[134.174.12.42]:25, delay=1.2, delays=0.73/0.07/0.04/0.37, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 1ayt400cs0-1 Message accepted for delivery)
> 
> and
> 
> Apr  2 02:29:52 promedmail postfix/cleanup[6635]: 54981758035: message-id=<515A428B.50808 at gmail.com>
> Apr  2 02:29:52 promedmail postfix/qmgr[4400]: 54981758035: from=<promed-eafr-bounces at promedmail.org>, size=8554, nrcpt=480 (queue active)
> ...
> Apr  2 02:29:52 promedmail postfix/qmgr[4400]: 54981758035: from=<promed-eafr-bounces at promedmail.org>, size=8554, nrcpt=480 (queue active)
> 
> 
> while messages that DID NOT ARRIVE all sort of look like this:
> 
> Mar 30 04:00:35 promedmail postfix/cleanup[18138]: ACCE0758034: message-id=<201303300400.r2U402Tx030401 at healthmap.chip.org>
> Mar 30 04:00:35 promedmail postfix/qmgr[4400]: ACCE0758034: from=<promed-daily-update-bounces at promedmail.org>, size=9316, nrcpt=500 (queue active)
> ...
> Mar 30 04:00:36 promedmail postfix/smtp[18143]: ACCE0758034: to=<pollackmp at mindspring.com>, relay=tummms.chboston.org[134.174.12.42]:25, conn_use=8, delay=2.1, delays=1.1/0.46/0/0.55, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 1b42w6x590-8 Message accepted for delivery)
> 
> 
> OK, if you've gotten this far, you'll see that the message-id ends in either mx.google.com or gmail.com (which are popular and common, and go through) and failing messages end in my specialized domain healthmap.chip.org.  Is this the sort of thing that causes a problem with delivery?  Are we maybe missing some sort of PTR records in the DNS?  That is fixable, but I don't understand why some messages get the 'special' domain and others do not.

Have you tried enabling VERP? So there's one message per recipient.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt                   Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de        Campus Benjamin Franklin
http://www.charite.de              Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin
Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  3 20:00:36 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 11:00:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Approvd messages don't get broadcasted
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1304031202440.21936@library.iisc.ernet.in>
Message-ID: <PC19932013040311003602652eabe72d@MSAPIRO>

franc at library.iisc.ernet.in wrote:
>
>I have searched all the log files, but couldn't locate the pattern, "Fri 
>Mar 8 10:09:05 IST 2013" in any of the log files. I even tried the 
>following caommands, but no match is found:


The timestamp format in the logs is not the same as the one I copied
from your archived message. If you want to use grep, use the pattern
"Mar 08 10:[01]" to find all the messages near that time.

You will still have to open the relevant logs and look because the grep
will only find the first line of multi-line messages, but at least it
will tell you what logs to look in.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  3 20:50:50 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:50:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting a specific list member to read-only
In-Reply-To: <515B78CF.9090801@attac-m.org>
References: <515B78CF.9090801@attac-m.org>
Message-ID: <515C7A0A.50908@msapiro.net>

On 4/2/2013 5:33 PM, Attac M?nchen - Postmaster wrote:
> 
> I'd like to temporarily block a member of a list from posting messages.
> This member is already set to "moderated" so I can reject/discard his
> mails manually. I cannot ban him entirely because he is entitled to read
> the list still by our community rules. Is there a way I can have his
> mails automatically rejected or discarded to make him a read-only
> member?


If he's the only moderated member you could set member_moderation_action
to Discard or Reject and if Reject, set an appropriate
member_moderation_notice.


> I'd need something like a inbox filter rule for this specific
> list member's address, i.e. blacklist his postings without removing him
> from the roster.


You could use Privacy options... -> Spam filters -> header_filter_rules
with a regexp like

^from:.*user at example\.com

(these are matched case-insensitively) and a Reject or Discard action,
but Reject here will just give the generic 'The message headers matched
a filter rule' reason.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  3 21:16:49 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 12:16:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not arriving - deep into filtering and
 delivery
In-Reply-To: <p06240818cd80f764d60d@[192.168.209.11]>
References: <p06240818cd80f764d60d@[192.168.209.11]>
Message-ID: <515C8021.8040105@msapiro.net>

On 4/2/2013 2:22 PM, Drew Tenenholz wrote:
> 
> How is the unique message ID for an outbound message created?  I'm
> seeing a differences in the domain label attached to outgoing
> messages, and I wonder if this is preventing mail from arriving to a
> particular (and maybe other) users.


Aside: If you'd post from your subscribed address, you'd avoid
moderation delay and possible rejection of your post.


In list posts, unless the list is anonymous, the Message-ID: is the
Message-ID of the incoming message. Mailman's internally generated
messages and anonymized posts have a Message-ID of the form

Message-ID: mailman.sssss.ttttt.ppppp.listname at hostname

where sssss is a sequence #
      ttttt is a time returned by Python's time.time()
      ppppp is the PID of the generating process


> One of my users is having trouble receiving mail from a couple of
> lists.

[...]
> while messages that DID NOT ARRIVE all sort of look like this:
> 
> Mar 30 04:00:35 promedmail postfix/cleanup[18138]: ACCE0758034:
> message-id=<201303300400.r2U402Tx030401 at healthmap.chip.org> Mar 30
> 04:00:35 promedmail postfix/qmgr[4400]: ACCE0758034:
> from=<promed-daily-update-bounces at promedmail.org>, size=9316,
> nrcpt=500 (queue active) ... Mar 30 04:00:36 promedmail
> postfix/smtp[18143]: ACCE0758034: to=<pollackmp at mindspring.com>,
> relay=tummms.chboston.org[134.174.12.42]:25, conn_use=8, delay=2.1,
> delays=1.1/0.46/0/0.55, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0
> 1b42w6x590-8 Message accepted for delivery)
> 
> 
> OK, if you've gotten this far, you'll see that the message-id ends in
> either mx.google.com or gmail.com (which are popular and common, and
> go through) and failing messages end in my specialized domain
> healthmap.chip.org.  Is this the sort of thing that causes a problem
> with delivery?  Are we maybe missing some sort of PTR records in the
> DNS?  That is fixable, but I don't understand why some messages get
> the 'special' domain and others do not.


I note that all this mail is routed through tummms.chboston.org. What do
the MTA logs on that server show?

Note that the <201303300400.r2U402Tx030401 at healthmap.chip.org> message
id is not a Mailman generated message id. It was either generated by the
process that originated the mail or it was added by healthmap.chip.org
because the message passed through that MTA without a Message-ID:.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  3 21:46:18 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 12:46:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept not accepeted
In-Reply-To: <515BCA78.5070600@free.fr>
References: <PC199320130320090029089724adbb5e@Notebook-09>
	<514A03FB.4080605@free.fr> <514A0CB0.4050807@msapiro.net>
	<515BCA78.5070600@free.fr>
Message-ID: <515C870A.8050305@msapiro.net>

On 4/2/2013 11:21 PM, jdd wrote:
> 
> it appears to be from a subscriber mailing list (not mine). The "from"
> is in my "to be accepted" list, but its moderated. I would like to have
> these mails accepted without moderation (but not all bulk messages from
> anywhere :-().
[...]
> comments in the aministrative page:
> 
> De:     fcouchet at april.org
> Objet:     [Lettre April] Lettre d'information interne des adh?rents de
> l'April du 1er avril 2013
> Motif:     Message avec destination implicite


The message has an implicit destination. This means that the list is not
explicitly addressed in a To: or Cc: header of the message.

As it says
[...]
> Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. Try
> reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in the
> To: or
> Cc: fields.


Since you don't have control over this message, you have to do it
another way.


[...]
> From: Frederic Couchet <fcouchet@
> To: all-april@


This is problematic. To pass this email you'd need to do one of two
things. You can go to Privacy options -> Recipient filters and put
all-april in acceptable_aliases, but that probably won't work because
next month's will be all-may. These are regexps so you could try

all-.*@example\.com$

where example.com is the real domain.

The other choice is to just set require_explicit_destination to No, but
that may allow some spam that would otherwise get held by this check.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jdanield at free.fr  Wed Apr  3 22:27:12 2013
From: jdanield at free.fr (jdd)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 22:27:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept not accepeted
In-Reply-To: <515C870A.8050305@msapiro.net>
References: <PC199320130320090029089724adbb5e@Notebook-09>
	<514A03FB.4080605@free.fr> <514A0CB0.4050807@msapiro.net>
	<515BCA78.5070600@free.fr> <515C870A.8050305@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <515C90A0.50600@free.fr>

Le 03/04/2013 21:46, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :

>> From: Frederic Couchet <fcouchet@
>> To: all-april@
>
>
> This is problematic. To pass this email you'd need to do one of two
> things. You can go to Privacy options -> Recipient filters and put
> all-april in acceptable_aliases, but that probably won't work because
> next month's will be all-may. These are regexps so you could try


oh, no... april is not the month :-)

http://www.april.org/

it's a french free software foundation :-) - did you notice the mail 
was sent with emacs :-)

your solution is certainly the best,

thanks
jdd


-- 
http://www.dodin.org
http://jddtube.dodin.org/20120616-52-highway_v1115

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  3 22:55:52 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 13:55:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Requests -- three questions
In-Reply-To: <0F3A260A-E8EA-4665-A7DC-9A04DC718FEA@deansuhr.us>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304031355520734ca719312@MSAPIRO>

Dean Suhr wrote
> 
>1) Is there a way to sort the Subscription Requests from newest to oldest?  We approve each request and sometimes  we have quite a few pending as we reach out to folks for clarification as to their eligibility to join closed lists.  It would be good to see new requests at the top.
>
>2) Can the date of an Admin Request become part of the display?  Again, I am happy to modify a file in my install if you can point me to the correct one.  What is the field name for the date of a request?
>
>3) I would like to trim the text in the "name" filed to display only the first 50 characters or so.  Is there a file I can modify to make this happen?  We use the Name field for the subscriber to share a brief introduction and when the field is wide the admin displays scroll off the right side of screen (too wide).


All of these would require modifications to the show_pending_subs
function definition in Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py.

There is code there that purports to sort the subscription requests by
email address, but it doesn't work. I'll probably file a bug and fix
that, but you could modify it to sort by time. you can also truncate
the fullname and add the time (after converting it to a nice format)
in the same function.

Let us know if you need help with the actual Python.


>Maybe these can become feature requests as well.


I don't see them as that generally useful, but you are welcome to
submit it to the tracker at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+filebug>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Thu Apr  4 03:58:21 2013
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 21:58:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept not accepeted
In-Reply-To: <515C220F.1080304@free.fr>
References: <PC199320130320090029089724adbb5e@Notebook-09>
	<514A03FB.4080605@free.fr> <514A0CB0.4050807@msapiro.net>
	<515BCA78.5070600@free.fr> <515C1C6D.5080903@Damon-Family.org>
	<515C220F.1080304@free.fr>
Message-ID: <515CDE3D.2070906@Damon-Family.org>

On 4/3/13 8:35 AM, jdd wrote:
> Le 03/04/2013 14:11, Richard Damon a ?crit :
>
>>> De:     fcouchet at aprixxxx
>
>
>> This indicates that your list is setup to not allow bcc, and that the
>> destination address
>
> I added the "from" adress (fcouchet at aprixxxx) in the said field, is
> this you call "destination adress"?
>
> thanks
> jdd
>
>
The "Blind CC" message indicates that the list address is not seen in
the TO or CC fields of the message (so it must have gotten to the list
via a BCC type action). If the list is configured to not allow BCCs,
then any address that can be legitimately sent to inorder to post on the
list needs to be listed in the  list aliases list.

It looks like this message was sent to the list via the email address
all-april@ (which looks like a local address, since it doesn't have a
domain), this is generally not a good idea for a message that is going
to be distributed in the wild, as it will not be a valid email address
for people to reply to. If you want to all that anyway, you need to add
this address as a list alias.

-- 
Richard Damon


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Apr  4 05:17:06 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2013 12:17:06 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not arriving - deep into filtering and
 delivery
In-Reply-To: <515C8021.8040105@msapiro.net>
References: <p06240818cd80f764d60d@[192.168.209.11]>
	<515C8021.8040105@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <87vc837znx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > Aside: If you'd post from your subscribed address, you'd avoid
 > moderation delay and possible rejection of your post.

I think Drew already knows this, but since Mark mentions the member
filter here, I'd like to remind users that if one has several possible
posting addresses, Mailman permits subscribing all of them and setting
all but one to no-mail.  That allows you to post from any such address
without receiving duplicates, and (most important) for open
subscription lists users can configure this without admin intervention.

From jdanield at free.fr  Thu Apr  4 07:42:17 2013
From: jdanield at free.fr (jdd)
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2013 07:42:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept not accepeted
In-Reply-To: <515CDE3D.2070906@Damon-Family.org>
References: <PC199320130320090029089724adbb5e@Notebook-09>
	<514A03FB.4080605@free.fr> <514A0CB0.4050807@msapiro.net>
	<515BCA78.5070600@free.fr> <515C1C6D.5080903@Damon-Family.org>
	<515C220F.1080304@free.fr> <515CDE3D.2070906@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <515D12B9.1080109@free.fr>

Le 04/04/2013 03:58, Richard Damon a ?crit :

> It looks like this message was sent to the list via the email address
> all-april@ (which looks like a local address, since it doesn't have a
> domain),

as I said, I removed the domain part (on my report) to prevent spam

this is generally not a good idea for a message that is going
> to be distributed in the wild, as it will not be a valid email address
> for people to reply to. If you want to all that anyway, you need to add
> this address as a list alias.
>

list alias? aceptable aliases, I guess? I will do this according to 
what marc said.

I don't knox how to test :-(, I have to wait to next post (mponthly :-()

thanks
jdd

-- 
http://www.dodin.org
http://jddtube.dodin.org/20120616-52-highway_v1115

From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Thu Apr  4 14:50:22 2013
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2013 08:50:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept not accepeted
In-Reply-To: <515D12B9.1080109@free.fr>
References: <PC199320130320090029089724adbb5e@Notebook-09>
	<514A03FB.4080605@free.fr> <514A0CB0.4050807@msapiro.net>
	<515BCA78.5070600@free.fr> <515C1C6D.5080903@Damon-Family.org>
	<515C220F.1080304@free.fr> <515CDE3D.2070906@Damon-Family.org>
	<515D12B9.1080109@free.fr>
Message-ID: <515D770E.7070706@Damon-Family.org>

On 4/4/13 1:42 AM, jdd wrote:
> Le 04/04/2013 03:58, Richard Damon a ?crit :
>
>> It looks like this message was sent to the list via the email address
>> all-april@ (which looks like a local address, since it doesn't have a
>> domain),
>
> as I said, I removed the domain part (on my report) to prevent spam

Missed that note, the normal procedure isn't to just delete the
information but to replace it with a placeholder, the domain example.com
being a good one.
>
> this is generally not a good idea for a message that is going
>> to be distributed in the wild, as it will not be a valid email address
>> for people to reply to. If you want to all that anyway, you need to add
>> this address as a list alias.
>>
>
> list alias? aceptable aliases, I guess? I will do this according to
> what marc said.
Yes, acceptable list aliases, as entered in

Privacy Options / Recipient Filters / Alias names (regexps) which
qualify as explicit to or cc destination names for this list.

This is designed to handle cases where the list has alternate names that
people can use to submit mail to it. Some entry in this list MUST be
found in either the To or CC fields of the message, or the Blind Carbon
Copy filter will be triggered.
<http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/admin/arlington/?VARHELP=privacy/recipient/acceptable_aliases>

>
> I don't knox how to test :-(, I have to wait to next post (mponthly :-()
>
> thanks
> jdd
>


-- 
Richard Damon


From jdanield at free.fr  Thu Apr  4 15:02:46 2013
From: jdanield at free.fr (jdd)
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2013 15:02:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept not accepeted
In-Reply-To: <515D770E.7070706@Damon-Family.org>
References: <PC199320130320090029089724adbb5e@Notebook-09>
	<514A03FB.4080605@free.fr> <514A0CB0.4050807@msapiro.net>
	<515BCA78.5070600@free.fr> <515C1C6D.5080903@Damon-Family.org>
	<515C220F.1080304@free.fr> <515CDE3D.2070906@Damon-Family.org>
	<515D12B9.1080109@free.fr> <515D770E.7070706@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <515D79F6.7090603@free.fr>

Le 04/04/2013 14:50, Richard Damon a ?crit :

> This is designed to handle cases where the list has alternate names that
(...)
thanks

mail is sometime much more complicated than someone can imagine, but 
this list is extremely friendly and effective

jdd


-- 
http://www.dodin.org
http://jddtube.dodin.org/20120616-52-highway_v1115

From franc at library.iisc.ernet.in  Thu Apr  4 18:27:35 2013
From: franc at library.iisc.ernet.in (franc at library.iisc.ernet.in)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 21:57:35 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Approvd messages don't get broadcasted
In-Reply-To: <PC19932013040311003602652eabe72d@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19932013040311003602652eabe72d@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <55678.10.16.40.12.1365092855.squirrel@library.iisc.ernet.in>

> franc at library.iisc.ernet.in wrote:
>>
>>I have searched all the log files, but couldn't locate the pattern, "Fri
>>Mar 8 10:09:05 IST 2013" in any of the log files. I even tried the
>>following caommands, but no match is found:
>

> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

> The timestamp format in the logs is not the same as the one I copied
> from your archived message. If you want to use grep, use the pattern
> "Mar 08 10:[01]" to find all the messages near that time.
>
> You will still have to open the relevant logs and look because the grep
> will only find the first line of multi-line messages, but at least it
> will tell you what logs to look in.
>

I have tried several possibilities like "Fri Mar", "Mar 8", "Mar 08" but
the pattern hasn't been found.

Does the presence of some non-ascii characters trigger such a behaviour?

Thanks,

 - Francis

The reported problem is being faced almost every day now.


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From mailman-users at mikebeaty.com  Thu Apr  4 06:31:14 2013
From: mailman-users at mikebeaty.com (Mike Beaty)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 22:31:14 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Owner and/or moderator not being notified of held
	message
Message-ID: <201304040431.r344VEIr027385@nyx3.nyx.net>

I have RTFM and have done searches, but have been unable to find the
solution.  I'll try to be brief and include answers to questions asked
of those with similar issues in the past.

I have had mailman 2.1 installed since 2005 and it has been working
fine -- until recently.  Now, I'm not notified when a post is held for
moderation.  I may get a notice a day to several days later that I have
moderator request(s) waiting.

.  Messages not held for moderation are delivered without delay
.  Issues seem to be related to messages held for moderator approval
.  Lists have the *admin_immed_notify* set to 'yes'. 
.  The held messages do not appear in the web admindb interface
.  They also do not show up in the 'vette' log
.  cron/checkdbs runs every morning at 8 am.
.  Messages are held in ~mailman/data/heldmesg-listname-###.txt
.  Email sent to listname-owner at domain.com is successfully delivered.

.  Mailman version: 2.1
.  python-2.3.2
.  Postfix 2.1.4
.  Solaris 8 10/01 s28s_u6wos_08a SPARC (yes, I know)
.  Built from http://www.list.org/download.html back in the day

Any pointers would be most welcome.

Thanks in advance,

Mike

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr  4 20:00:38 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 11:00:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Approvd messages don't get broadcasted
In-Reply-To: <55678.10.16.40.12.1365092855.squirrel@library.iisc.ernet.in>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304041100380156aa5c7ec2@MSAPIRO>

franc at library.iisc.ernet.in wrote:
>
>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
>
>> The timestamp format in the logs is not the same as the one I copied
>> from your archived message. If you want to use grep, use the pattern
>> "Mar 08 10:[01]" to find all the messages near that time.
>>
>> You will still have to open the relevant logs and look because the grep
>> will only find the first line of multi-line messages, but at least it
>> will tell you what logs to look in.
>>
>
>I have tried several possibilities like "Fri Mar", "Mar 8", "Mar 08" but
>the pattern hasn't been found.


The "Mar 08" pattern should find all messages from March 8.

Maybe the relevant logs have been rotated out of existence by now? You
may have to wait until this occurs again and look more quickly.


>Does the presence of some non-ascii characters trigger such a behaviour?


It shouldn't, but it might. I can't tell without seeing some log
information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr  4 21:35:31 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 12:35:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Owner and/or moderator not being notified of
	heldmessage
In-Reply-To: <201304040431.r344VEIr027385@nyx3.nyx.net>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304041235300984136f55f6@MSAPIRO>

Mike Beaty wrote:
>.  The held messages do not appear in the web admindb interface
>.  They also do not show up in the 'vette' log
>.  cron/checkdbs runs every morning at 8 am.
>.  Messages are held in ~mailman/data/heldmesg-listname-###.txt


If the ~mailman/data/heldmesg-listname-###.txt is created with the
message but the message is not visible in the admindb interface, some
exception is being thrown between writing the
~mailman/data/heldmesg-listname-###.txt file and saving the lists
request.pck file. I'd guess a permissions issue, but what's in
Mailman's error log?


>.  Mailman version: 2.1


Really? Mailman 2.1 was released in 2002; the current version in 2005
was 2.1.5 or 2.1.6 (released May 2005). 2.1.15 is the latest release,
but recent versions require Python 2.4+ <http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From javad at iranravi.com  Thu Apr  4 21:38:31 2013
From: javad at iranravi.com (Javad Hoseini)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 00:08:31 +0430
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <000f01ce316b$fe5ecb10$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>



Javad Hoseini
????? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? (????)
Research Association for Visual Impairments
www.IranRAVI.com


From mailman-users at mikebeaty.com  Fri Apr  5 01:12:59 2013
From: mailman-users at mikebeaty.com (Mike Beaty)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 17:12:59 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Owner and/or moderator not being notified of
 heldmessage
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201304041235300984136f55f6@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1993201304041235300984136f55f6@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.1304041643270.542@nyx3.nyx.net>

On Apr 4, 2013, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Mike Beaty wrote:
>> .  The held messages do not appear in the web admindb interface
>> .  They also do not show up in the 'vette' log
>> .  cron/checkdbs runs every morning at 8 am.
>> .  Messages are held in ~mailman/data/heldmesg-listname-###.txt
>
> If the ~mailman/data/heldmesg-listname-###.txt is created with the
> message but the message is not visible in the admindb interface, some
> exception is being thrown between writing the
> ~mailman/data/heldmesg-listname-###.txt file and saving the lists
> request.pck file. I'd guess a permissions issue, but what's in
> Mailman's error log?

That's possible, though I don't think that anyone's been twiddling
with the file system or the mailman installation.  However, I would
very much like for it to be a permissions issue, as I know how to fix
permissions :-).

I've put the last ~500 lines of ~mailman/logs/error into
 	http://www.mikebeaty.com/mailman_log.txt

Interestingly (to me), I see this error
 	ImportError: No module named Mailmann.UserDesc
which began on or about the day I first noticed the issues.  Searches
on the term Mailmann.UserDesc yielded no results, so my installation
must be uniquely horked.

>> .  Mailman version: 2.1
>
> Really? Mailman 2.1 was released in 2002; the current version in 2005
> was 2.1.5 or 2.1.6 (released May 2005). 2.1.15 is the latest release,
> but recent versions require Python 2.4+ <http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9>.

 	37 /export/mailman/bin> version
 	Using Mailman version: 2.1

And I was mistaken in my original post.  According to the logs, the
correct date was Feb 04 11:29:54 2004 .  I apologize for the
confusion.  This installation has been working fine for over nine
years.  Unfortunately, I'm not the only sysadmin on this box, so
something may have been upgraded and/or changed without my knowledge.

I greatly appreciate your reply!

Mike

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  5 01:35:21 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 16:35:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Owner and/or moderator not being notified
	ofheldmessage
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.1304041643270.542@nyx3.nyx.net>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304041635210109835f1682@MSAPIRO>

Mike Beaty wrote:
>
>I've put the last ~500 lines of ~mailman/logs/error into
> 	http://www.mikebeaty.com/mailman_log.txt
>
>Interestingly (to me), I see this error
> 	ImportError: No module named Mailmann.UserDesc
>which began on or about the day I first noticed the issues.  Searches
>on the term Mailmann.UserDesc yielded no results, so my installation
>must be uniquely horked.


There should be a Mailman/UserDesc.py module. It's been there since the
start of the 2.1 branch.

Yes your installation must be uniquely horked.

Do you know how your installation was installed and can you reinstall
it the same way?

You can get individual source files from
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1>
and a tarball from <http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/mailman-2.1.tgz>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  5 01:43:30 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 16:43:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Owner and/or moderator not being notified
	ofheldmessage
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.1304041643270.542@nyx3.nyx.net>
Message-ID: <PC199320130404164330090680e441a8@MSAPIRO>

Mike Beaty wrote:
>
>Interestingly (to me), I see this error
> 	ImportError: No module named Mailmann.UserDesc
>which began on or about the day I first noticed the issues.


Ooops. just noticed the double 'nn'. That's a different issue. It's
something corrupt in the pending.pck file. In your version, it's
data/pending.pck in Mailman's var_prefix. You can simply move it aside
or delete it and also, any pending.db.

You will lose old pending requests, but they've all expired by now
anyway.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mailman-users at mikebeaty.com  Sat Apr  6 00:22:19 2013
From: mailman-users at mikebeaty.com (Mike Beaty)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 16:22:19 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Owner and/or moderator not being notified
 ofheldmessage
In-Reply-To: <PC199320130404164330090680e441a8@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC199320130404164330090680e441a8@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.1304051621290.27241@nyx3.nyx.net>

On Apr 4, 2013, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Ooops. just noticed the double 'nn'. That's a different issue. It's
> something corrupt in the pending.pck file. In your version, it's
> data/pending.pck in Mailman's var_prefix. You can simply move it
> aside or delete it and also, any pending.db.

I was hoping it was something simple like this.  I deleted the
pending.pck file, then ran http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/hold_again as
 	hold_again -a 
from the ~mailman/bin directory.  KaCHOW!  Back in business.

Thanks, Mark!

Mike

From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Fri Apr  5 17:29:24 2013
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 08:29:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman SMTP reasonable response time
Message-ID: <1527D20C-59D7-4FB3-BD32-0B482D861D00@canby.k12.or.us>

We use OpenNMS to monitor services such as SMTP and HTTP on our Mailman server. OpenNMS logs issues throughout the night (every 20 minutes apart) that "SMTP outage identified on interface Ethernet 1 with reason code: Did not receive expected response within timeout timeout: 3000ms retry: 1 of 1."

What is the reasonable response time for Mailman SMTP? Any other factors that may affect the response time? We never receive these errors before, just starting last night.

Thank you,



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr  6 07:57:47 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 22:57:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman SMTP reasonable response time
In-Reply-To: <1527D20C-59D7-4FB3-BD32-0B482D861D00@canby.k12.or.us>
References: <1527D20C-59D7-4FB3-BD32-0B482D861D00@canby.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <515FB95B.9@msapiro.net>

On 4/5/2013 8:29 AM, Hung Phan wrote:
> We use OpenNMS to monitor services such as SMTP and HTTP on our Mailman server. OpenNMS logs issues throughout the night (every 20 minutes apart) that "SMTP outage identified on interface Ethernet 1 with reason code: Did not receive expected response within timeout timeout: 3000ms retry: 1 of 1."


Why do you thing this has anything to do with Mailman?


> What is the reasonable response time for Mailman SMTP? Any other factors that may affect the response time? We never receive these errors before, just starting last night.


Mailman only does SMTP to the outgoing MTA which is normally on the
local machine accessed via localhost (i.e. the loopback port) and not
via any ethernet port.

My best guess is your MTA has a queued message which may or may not have
originated from Mailman, and this message is addressed to a domain whose
MX is not responding. Thus the timeouts and retries at 20 minute
intervals which will probably get longer depending on the MTA's retry
policies.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From doug4r at gmail.com  Sat Apr  6 05:14:40 2013
From: doug4r at gmail.com (Doug Walker)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 23:14:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gnu Mailman Configuration
Message-ID: <CAHNmz2s1w1TzoUMgZac3-unqJbE+=dMb87cqbUw7MSioWOjfZQ@mail.gmail.com>

The verbiage:

Machi1964 mailing list
Machi1964 at list.machi1964.com
http://list.machi1964.com/mailman/listinfo/machi1964_list.machi1964.com

is appended to each piece of mail sent by gnu Mailman.

I would like to add this additional verbiage below that:

machi1964 Web Site
http://machi1964.com
Login: Email User User name (example: doug4r)
Password: gogrizzlies

How do I do this?

-- 
Doug Walker
Email: doug4r at gmail.com <doug4r at gmail.com>
Phone: 386-562-8125

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr  6 09:26:53 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 00:26:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gnu Mailman Configuration
In-Reply-To: <CAHNmz2s1w1TzoUMgZac3-unqJbE+=dMb87cqbUw7MSioWOjfZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013040600265303124a9e1d6d@MSAPIRO>

Doug Walker wrote:
>
>I would like to add this additional verbiage below that:
>
>machi1964 Web Site
>http://machi1964.com
>Login: Email User User name (example: doug4r)
>Password: gogrizzlies
>
>How do I do this?


Go to the list's web admin interface -> Non-digest options.

Add your text to msg_footer. See the (Details for msg_footer) link for
the replacements you can use. Note that any user information
replacements require the personalize option on that page to be Yes or
Full. If that option doesn't appear as the second setting on the page,
see http://wiki.list.org/x/UYA9>. And while you're at it, since you
appear to have a cPanel Mailman, see <http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hkap790 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  6 15:28:13 2013
From: hkap790 at gmail.com (hk)
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2013 08:28:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Managing junk subscription requests?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1365253201.28853.bikewinter@hafd.org>
References: <mailman.1.1365253201.28853.bikewinter@hafd.org>
Message-ID: <516022ED.5060105@gmail.com>

I'm getting ready to move a large (800+ member) unmoderated list that's 
existed on L-soft to a mailman list.
Never had to deal with "junk" subscriptions before with this list.
Any suggestions on how to not have to deal with them in Mailman?
Below is a message from this morning from another list I've managed....
-h


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 13 xxxxx moderator request(s) waiting
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2013 08:00:01 -0500
From: xxxxx-bounces at xxxx.org
To: xxxxx-owner at xxxx.org

The xxxxx at xxxx.org mailing list has 13 request(s) waiting for
your consideration at:

	http://xxxx.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/xxxxx
	
Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.

Pending subscriptions:

     vznend at rvkmvs.com (zkcpikpv) Wed Apr  3 13:55:05 2013
     jmbzdp at mkpqwt.com (lyiawz) Wed Apr  3 16:00:36 2013
     eumwov at hxxyhq.com (hlgaqwmmlw) Wed Apr  3 23:13:08 2013
     qzlhzb at nbwhyi.com (zwgnbwmpte) Thu Apr  4 01:39:23 2013
     emhody at olqryu.com (ksgwimsimjt) Thu Apr  4 06:06:54 2013
     hxpqyw at gykoiw.com (esntidwcc) Thu Apr  4 07:38:42 2013
     xtrhgo at vuwigf.com (amooqp) Thu Apr  4 08:48:31 2013
     nlojeo at hswzqx.com (xwddyqyfvs) Thu Apr  4 10:32:42 2013
     kxvbsk at ymjbaf.com (dczzstty) Thu Apr  4 16:39:15 2013
     pfrazw at zdgdiz.com (uknobk) Thu Apr  4 17:15:55 2013
     gcnrsr at oszhmu.com (fotyvcmlyt) Thu Apr  4 22:38:54 2013
     slucxa at xhbqzn.com (fqxvsvyou) Thu Apr  4 23:33:19 2013





From paul at fpen.org  Sat Apr  6 17:51:49 2013
From: paul at fpen.org (Paul Kleeberg)
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 10:51:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Distutils is not available or is incomplete for
	/usr/bin/python
In-Reply-To: <089AC834-EDB6-4A13-B0B0-4C572C98CA52@sandiego.edu>
References: <17FB5983-A76A-48C8-9FDB-3901E07B65A0@fpen.org>
	<089AC834-EDB6-4A13-B0B0-4C572C98CA52@sandiego.edu>
Message-ID: <4189DE82-7289-4957-999B-45A215FF8F96@fpen.org>

Odd how things come back again.

Searching for a solution to a problem I am having with a clean install, I found this.  Apparently this problem was solved for me almost 4 years ago for me by installing Xcode.  Now it is not.

I have a clean install of MacOSX 10.8.3 server, downloaded Xcode 4.6.1 from the App Store and installed it.  Was following the instructions on Allen's post http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2013-March/074888.html and when I went to run:

	./configure --prefix=/usr/local/mailman --with-cgi-gid=_www --with-mail-gid=_mailman

Got the message:

	***** Distutils is not available or is incomplete for /usr/bin/python 

Grr?

Searching the Xcode documentation for distutils, I find:

	The Python modules included in the standard package for OS X are the following:
	?  bdist_mpkg ? Builds OS X installer packages from distutils

So I assume it should be in there.  Interestingly the command found in http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg56963.html produces:

	mini53:~ paul$ sudo Python -V
	sudo: Python: command not found

While

	mini53:~ paul$ sudo python -V
	Python 2.7.2

Is the problem in that my partition is case sensitive?

Suggestions as to what I should do?

Paul
--
Paul Kleeberg
paul at fpen.org


On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:05 AM, Jerry Stratton <jerry at sandiego.edu> wrote:

> On Dec 14, 2009, at 8:39 AM, Paul Kleeberg wrote:
> 
>> Distutils is not available or is incomplete for /usr/bin/python
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Distutils+is+not+available+or+is+incomplete+for+/usr/bin/python&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
> 
> 
> Have you installed XCode?
> 
> Jerry
> 
> On Windows, use Alt-PrtScr to take a screenshot; you can then paste it into an e-mail message.
> On Mac OS X, use Command-Shift-3 to take a screenshot (or if you only want to send a single window, use Command-Shift-4, position the mouse over the window you want, and then use the space bar). This will create a file on your desktop that you can drag into any document, such as an e-mail message.
> 
> Jerold Stratton, jerry at sandiego.edu
> http://home.sandiego.edu/~jerry/
> User Services Consultant, Web Systems and Programming
> University of San Diego
> 5998 Alcala Park, Maher Hall 190
> (619) 260-4810 x8773
> --
> "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."--Douglas Adams (Mostly Harmless)
> 
> 
> 


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr  6 21:23:32 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 12:23:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Managing junk subscription requests?
In-Reply-To: <516022ED.5060105@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC199320130406122332060964a4ee81@MSAPIRO>

hk wrote:

>I'm getting ready to move a large (800+ member) unmoderated list that's 
>existed on L-soft to a mailman list.


800 is not very big as Mailman lists go.


>Never had to deal with "junk" subscriptions before with this list.
>Any suggestions on how to not have to deal with them in Mailman?
>Below is a message from this morning from another list I've managed....
[...]
>Pending subscriptions:
>
>     vznend at rvkmvs.com (zkcpikpv) Wed Apr  3 13:55:05 2013
>     jmbzdp at mkpqwt.com (lyiawz) Wed Apr  3 16:00:36 2013
[...]


I'm guessing that this list's Privacy options... -> Subscription rules
-> subscribe_policy is Require approval. If so, and if you set it to
Confirm and approve, it will probably stop most of this.

Confirm and approve means that first the subscriber must respond to a
confirmation email before the request goes to an admin for approval.
While this does introduce potential backscatter, I suspect those
addresses aren't deliverable anyway. If so, the confirmation requests
will just expire without your ever being aware of them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr  6 22:14:17 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2013 13:14:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Distutils is not available or is incomplete for
 /usr/bin/python
In-Reply-To: <4189DE82-7289-4957-999B-45A215FF8F96@fpen.org>
References: <17FB5983-A76A-48C8-9FDB-3901E07B65A0@fpen.org>
	<089AC834-EDB6-4A13-B0B0-4C572C98CA52@sandiego.edu>
	<4189DE82-7289-4957-999B-45A215FF8F96@fpen.org>
Message-ID: <51608219.7010701@msapiro.net>

On 4/6/2013 8:51 AM, Paul Kleeberg wrote:
> 
> I have a clean install of MacOSX 10.8.3 server, downloaded Xcode 4.6.1 from the App Store and installed it.  Was following the instructions on Allen's post http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2013-March/074888.html and when I went to run:


See
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mac+Mailman+development+setup+guide>,
aka <http://wiki.list.org/x/NYDt>. That may help although it is aimed at
Mailman 3 this note and the stuff it refers to may be relevant.

However, the stock version of python does not work.  YOU WILL NEED TO
INSTALL PYTHON FROM ANOTHER SOURCE.  Below are several possible ways to
do this using macports, fink or homebrew.  YOU ONLY NEED TO FOLLOW ONE
SET OF INSTRUCTIONS ON THIS PAGE.  Just make sure you have a version of
python installed other than the mac default, and then make sure that it
is the one being used.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From hkap790 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  6 23:52:28 2013
From: hkap790 at gmail.com (hkap790 at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2013 16:52:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Managing junk subscription requests?
In-Reply-To: <PC199320130406122332060964a4ee81@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC199320130406122332060964a4ee81@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <1365285148.12746.140661214268613.33259E15@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Thanks as always, Mark.
I will take a look at "confirm and approve."
800 is not big but this has historically been a ver active list, with
posts sometimes reaching 80 a day.
On that note, L-soft has two things I really really like:
1) Ability to set a max daily posting limit for individual
2) Ability to set a max daily limit for the list.
In times of explosive or contentuous discussion these have proven to be
essential.
Any parallels in mailman?

Thanks,
-h

On Sat, Apr 6, 2013, at 02:23 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> hk wrote:
> 
> >I'm getting ready to move a large (800+ member) unmoderated list that's 
> >existed on L-soft to a mailman list.
> 
> 
> 800 is not very big as Mailman lists go.
> 
> 
> >Never had to deal with "junk" subscriptions before with this list.
> >Any suggestions on how to not have to deal with them in Mailman?
> >Below is a message from this morning from another list I've managed....
> [...]
> >Pending subscriptions:
> >
> >     vznend at rvkmvs.com (zkcpikpv) Wed Apr  3 13:55:05 2013
> >     jmbzdp at mkpqwt.com (lyiawz) Wed Apr  3 16:00:36 2013
> [...]
> 
> 
> I'm guessing that this list's Privacy options... -> Subscription rules
> -> subscribe_policy is Require approval. If so, and if you set it to
> Confirm and approve, it will probably stop most of this.
> 
> Confirm and approve means that first the subscriber must respond to a
> confirmation email before the request goes to an admin for approval.
> While this does introduce potential backscatter, I suspect those
> addresses aren't deliverable anyway. If so, the confirmation requests
> will just expire without your ever being aware of them.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 


-- 
  Howard Kaplan
  hkap790 at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr  7 00:26:03 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 15:26:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Managing junk subscription requests?
In-Reply-To: <1365285148.12746.140661214268613.33259E15@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304061526030187869f16be@MSAPIRO>

hkap790 at gmail.com wrote:

>On that note, L-soft has two things I really really like:
>1) Ability to set a max daily posting limit for individual
>2) Ability to set a max daily limit for the list.


You could do these with a custom handler. See
<http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mscag at ciu.edu.tr  Sun Apr  7 10:19:47 2013
From: mscag at ciu.edu.tr (Mustafa Cagatayli)
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 11:19:47 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman installation problem : "User unknown in
 relay recipient table"
In-Reply-To: <1157029047.71699.1365322405208.JavaMail.root@ciu.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <1251209733.72643.1365322787303.JavaMail.root@ciu.edu.tr>

Hi,

Together with the proper A and MX records for "mydomain.com", I have a fresh Ubuntu 12.04LTS server. I have followed the "http://library.linode.com/email/mailman/ubuntu-12.04-precise-pangolin" and installed Mailman. I have created a few lists through the web interface.

One important problem I came accross is not being able to send message to any of the lists. The members do receive the "Welcome to the list" message from the server, but Whenever any member of any list sends a message to the list, s/he immidiately receives a message saying

***********************
<test at lists.domain.com>: host lists.domain.com[10.0.0.24] said: 550 5.1.1 <test at lists.domain.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in relay
recipient table (in reply to RCPT TO command)
***********************

I have tried Ubuntu Forums, and was advised to check the thread "http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-January/070896.html". I have followed this thread and added

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'localhost'

into mm_cfg.py, and also added "hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases" at the end of the line starting with "alias_database" and "alias_maps" in the file main.cf of postfix. But unfortunately I ended up with a setup responding "mail for lists.domain.com loops back to myself" for every message sent to the list. At the end of the thread, the gentelmen who seems to found a solution, points to a howto page, which does no longer exists.

So I reverted my setup back to the "User unknown in relay recipient table" situation.

Any help appriciated. 


Regards.  


---------------------
Mustafa Cagatayli
UKU CC


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  9 00:22:39 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 15:22:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman installation problem : "User unknown
	inrelay recipient table"
In-Reply-To: <1251209733.72643.1365322787303.JavaMail.root@ciu.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <PC19932013040815223906563a9572b7@MSAPIRO>

Mustafa Cagatayli wrote:
>
>Together with the proper A and MX records for "mydomain.com", I have a fresh Ubuntu 12.04LTS server. I have followed the "http://library.linode.com/email/mailman/ubuntu-12.04-precise-pangolin" and installed Mailman. I have created a few lists through the web interface.
>
>One important problem I came accross is not being able to send message to any of the lists. The members do receive the "Welcome to the list" message from the server, but Whenever any member of any list sends a message to the list, s/he immidiately receives a message saying
>
>***********************
><test at lists.domain.com>: host lists.domain.com[10.0.0.24] said: 550 5.1.1 <test at lists.domain.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in relay
>recipient table (in reply to RCPT TO command)
>***********************
>
>I have tried Ubuntu Forums, and was advised to check the thread "http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-January/070896.html". I have followed this thread and added
>
>VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'localhost'


This is the wrong advice. It's a different issue.


>into mm_cfg.py, and also added "hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases" at the end of the line starting with "alias_database" and "alias_maps" in the file main.cf of postfix. But unfortunately I ended up with a setup responding "mail for lists.domain.com loops back to myself" for every message sent to the list. At the end of the thread, the gentelmen who seems to found a solution, points to a howto page, which does no longer exists.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/EYDt>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pyz at brama.com  Tue Apr  9 00:31:41 2013
From: pyz at brama.com (Max Pyziur)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 18:31:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ISP Policies: Maintaining a clean reputation and
 getting the configurations right
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1304081831130.9956@brama.com>



Greetings,

While we've managed to master keeping our reputation clean on CBL and 
Spamhaus, we're now getting pushback from the ISPs, critically, the older 
ones like earthlink.net, yahoo.com, and a few other similar ones.

Not long ago, I had some issues regarding AOL; a list respondent was very 
helpful. Here is a link covering most of the major ISPs:

ISP Summary Information
http://wiki.wordtothewise.com/ISP_Summary_Information


fyi,

Max Pyziur
pyz at brama.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  9 02:04:34 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 17:04:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ISP Policies: Maintaining a clean reputation
	andgetting the configurations right
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1304081831130.9956@brama.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304081704340703578226e1@MSAPIRO>

Max Pyziur wrote:
>
>Here is a link covering most of the major ISPs:
>
>ISP Summary Information
>http://wiki.wordtothewise.com/ISP_Summary_Information


Thanks for that. I have added it to the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mcnutt at utk.edu  Tue Apr  9 20:51:31 2013
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (McNutt Jr, William R)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 18:51:31 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] E-mails going out with wrong url.
Message-ID: <0CD7A72044B75D478D36624D96C5D4411725AA8F@kmbx2.utk.tennessee.edu>

I've created a new list, sccbt.

The welcome message is going out with the urls:


  http://mybox/mailman/listinfo/sccbt


They should read http://mybox.mydoman.edu/mailman/listinfo/sccbt

Where is my error?

Bill McNutt
Technology Coordinator
Center for Literacy, Education & Employment at the University of Tennessee


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  9 21:07:11 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 12:07:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] E-mails going out with wrong url.
In-Reply-To: <0CD7A72044B75D478D36624D96C5D4411725AA8F@kmbx2.utk.tennessee.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304091207110218a2e3e6e5@MSAPIRO>

McNutt Jr, William R wrote:

>I've created a new list, sccbt.
>
>The welcome message is going out with the urls:
>
>
>  http://mybox/mailman/listinfo/sccbt
>
>
>They should read http://mybox.mydoman.edu/mailman/listinfo/sccbt
>
>Where is my error?


It depends how you created the list. It may be because things like
DEFAULT_URL_HOST and values in add_virtualhost() lines in mm_cfg.py
are not fully qualified, or possibly you created the list via the web
creat interface by going to a URL like http://mybox/mailman/create.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9> and other FAQ's linked
therefrom for information on fixing the list with fix_url.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From davidalanroth at gmail.com  Tue Apr  9 23:09:36 2013
From: davidalanroth at gmail.com (David Roth)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 17:09:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need to extract subscribers from Mailman files
Message-ID: <CAN7=Vv_rsuW2KJ+18XYTK35GDbBuq-QxfzGC37CBf1r3+4dSBQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm helping out a friend. His server had a hardware failure. He has a
backup, and has retrieved the Mailman files for the mailing list he
maintains. The mailman directory he sent me has the following directories
at the top level:

archives  data  lists  spam

His goal is to extract the e-mail addresses of the subscribers so he can
re-invite them to a new mailing list system.

How can I extract the e-mail addresses of the subscribers? I looked around
in the files and unless I missed something there doesn't appear to be a
text file with a list of the e-mail addresses. I'm guessing that I could
install Mailman on my Linux server and do something to extract these e-mail
addresses?

I'd greatly appreciate some helpful suggestions with this. Thanks in
advance!

David Roth

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 10 00:46:23 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 15:46:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need to extract subscribers from Mailman files
In-Reply-To: <CAN7=Vv_rsuW2KJ+18XYTK35GDbBuq-QxfzGC37CBf1r3+4dSBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304091546230656f303e8a7@MSAPIRO>

David Roth wrote:

>I'm helping out a friend. His server had a hardware failure. He has a
>backup, and has retrieved the Mailman files for the mailing list he
>maintains. The mailman directory he sent me has the following directories
>at the top level:
>
>archives  data  lists  spam
>
>His goal is to extract the e-mail addresses of the subscribers so he can
>re-invite them to a new mailing list system.


If the new mailing list system is Mailman, all that needs to be done is
move the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck file to the new installation and
baybe the archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file to use in
rebuilding the archives. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2oA9>
and posts linked therefrom.


>How can I extract the e-mail addresses of the subscribers? I looked around
>in the files and unless I missed something there doesn't appear to be a
>text file with a list of the e-mail addresses. I'm guessing that I could
>install Mailman on my Linux server and do something to extract these e-mail
>addresses?


The addresses are in the config.pck. You can run 'strings' on that and
filter out email addresses. If you have a Mailman installation,
Mailman's bin/dumpdb will dump the config.pck in a more usable form
and bin/list_members will list the members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From James.Millsap at chicagobooth.edu  Wed Apr 10 17:43:01 2013
From: James.Millsap at chicagobooth.edu (Millsap, James)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:43:01 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.14 stops sending mail
Message-ID: <EFA30B2F0470CE4EAD2014F9C1336B5841065A06@bushexmb01.gsb.uchicago.edu>

Hello,

I have mailman 2.1.14 running on RHEL 5.9 with sendmail 8.13.8-8.1.el5_7, and Python 2.4.3.

The problem presents itself by mailman no longer sending out mail sent to the lists.  The mail is queuing up, and when mailman is stopped and started it all delivers.  That leads to the other strange part.  All of the mailman daemons stop when I run the stop script,  except

mailman  15854     1  0 10:01 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start
mailman  15861 15854  0 10:01 ?        00:00:06 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s

I have to kill the outgoingrunner specifically.  The only thing I see in the logs is a lack of logging.  It has been running with stunning reliability on this machine for the last few years, so I am not sure what is going on.  Perhaps one of redhat's patches killed it.


James Millsap
The University of Chicago Booth School of Business
5807 South Woodlawn Avenue
Chicago, IL  60637
(773) 702-7955


From anotheranne at fables.co.za  Wed Apr 10 21:38:32 2013
From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 21:38:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its own network
Message-ID: <20130410193832.GA23637@fables.co.za>

Hello,

My mailing lists run on a relay server installed as per FAQ 4.88

Accessing the web interface across the internet works fine but accessing
while on the host network is not so fine.

Instead of the DSL (dyndns) address I use the server name or IP address
and all goes fine unless I query the mailing list addresses. Then i am
returned to login again and so on ad infinitum. Same if I try to list
them.

I note that when I mouse-over the menu options the browser bottom line
shows the server name (or IP) address that I have used. When I
mouse-over the 0-9A-Z membership listing then the DSL forwarding address
shows.

FAQ 4.29 would indicate that I could change the DEFAULT_URL_HOST setting
for existing lists using fix_url.py - in this case perhaps to the IP
address?

I suppose that would foul up admin access from across the internet but
as that is only me we could live with that.

Before fools rush in where angels fear to tread - is this the way to go?
Maybe there is a route to have the best of both worlds (easy access from
the internet and the local network)

many thanks in advance
anotheranne


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 10 22:59:24 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 13:59:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.14 stops sending mail
In-Reply-To: <EFA30B2F0470CE4EAD2014F9C1336B5841065A06@bushexmb01.gsb.uchicago.edu>
References: <EFA30B2F0470CE4EAD2014F9C1336B5841065A06@bushexmb01.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <5165D2AC.6010408@msapiro.net>

On 4/10/2013 8:43 AM, Millsap, James wrote:
> 
> mailman  15854     1  0 10:01 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start
> mailman  15861 15854  0 10:01 ?        00:00:06 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
> 
> I have to kill the outgoingrunner specifically.  The only thing I see in the logs is a lack of logging.  It has been running with stunning reliability on this machine for the last few years, so I am not sure what is going on.  Perhaps one of redhat's patches killed it.


Can you kill -TERM it or do you need to kill -KILL it?

Are you sure there's nothing relevant in Mailman's qrunner log
(/var/log/mailman/qrunner if a rhel packaged Mailman)? Is there a
current .bak file in the out queue (/var/spool/mailman/out/)

What does 'lsof' show for the process? You might be able to get
something useful from 'gdb' or maybe see something like
<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/132058/showing-the-stack-trace-from-a-running-python-application>.

If I had to guess, I'd guess it gets hung waiting for an SMTP response
from the MTA.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 10 23:35:03 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 14:35:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its own
	network
In-Reply-To: <20130410193832.GA23637@fables.co.za>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304101435030078ae43e651@MSAPIRO>

Anne Wainwright wrote:
>
>Instead of the DSL (dyndns) address I use the server name or IP address
>and all goes fine unless I query the mailing list addresses. Then i am
>returned to login again and so on ad infinitum. Same if I try to list
>them.
>
>I note that when I mouse-over the menu options the browser bottom line
>shows the server name (or IP) address that I have used. When I
>mouse-over the 0-9A-Z membership listing then the DSL forwarding address
>shows.


That's because the menu links are relative but the action link for the
search button and the 'letter' links are absolute.


>FAQ 4.29 would indicate that I could change the DEFAULT_URL_HOST setting
>for existing lists using fix_url.py - in this case perhaps to the IP
>address?


What you would need to change is the host in the list's web_page_url
attribute. This is what fix_url.py does, but it also changes the
list's host_name (email domain) attribute, so if you changed
web_page_url with fix_url.py, you'd have to change host_name back on
the list's General Options page.

It would probably be easier to change just web_page_url with
interactive withlist or config_list.

But, this will change every non-relative url for this list including
those in List-*: message headers and the bodies of notices and digest
boilerplate and message and digest footers, so you don't want to do it.


>I suppose that would foul up admin access from across the internet but
>as that is only me we could live with that.


Amd more than that as I note above.


>Before fools rush in where angels fear to tread - is this the way to go?
>Maybe there is a route to have the best of both worlds (easy access from
>the internet and the local network)


What we need to do is figure out why those few URLs on the Membership
List page are absolute. It may be a bug. I'll look at that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 11 00:00:50 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:00:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its
	ownnetwork
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201304101435030078ae43e651@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304101500500500ae43e826@MSAPIRO>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>What we need to do is figure out why those few URLs on the Membership
>List page are absolute. It may be a bug. I'll look at that.


There are two places in Mailman/Cgi/admin.py where it requests absolute
URLs. The relevant code bits are

def membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc, form):
    # Show the main stuff
    adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1)
    ...

and

def password_inputs(mlist):
    adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1)

The first of these affects the 'letter/digit' links on the membership
ant the action for the Search, Submit Your Changes and Set buttons,
and the second affects (I think) only the link to the general options
section on the Passwords page.

I see no reason why these need to be absolute URLs. You could just
change the two mlist.GetScriptURL lines to

    adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin')

and I think that would fix it. If you wouldn't mind trying this and
reporting, I'd appreciate it and if it seems OK, I'll file a bug and
change it for 2.1.16.

There may be some http/https issue around this, but offhand, I can't
think why.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From nta345 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 10 18:15:51 2013
From: nta345 at gmail.com (Neil Anuskiewicz)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:15:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receive your own posts problem
Message-ID: <CAP6DAaECOKx-1ghZU2izAQKK43C=L9OWWWir65cME1TfXfVeDw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I just setup a small mailman list (hosted by Bluehost) for a small
organization. I've set "Receive your own posts to the list?" to yes but i'm
still not receiving my own posts.

I'm wondering how might go about resolving this issue?

Thanks.

Neil*
*

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 11 08:23:41 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 23:23:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receive your own posts problem
In-Reply-To: <CAP6DAaECOKx-1ghZU2izAQKK43C=L9OWWWir65cME1TfXfVeDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304102323410890d0d497a3@MSAPIRO>

Neil Anuskiewicz wrote:
>
>I just setup a small mailman list (hosted by Bluehost) for a small
>organization. I've set "Receive your own posts to the list?" to yes but i'm
>still not receiving my own posts.
>
>I'm wondering how might go about resolving this issue?


You could try adding your voice to those who've already communicated
with Google about this, but I suspect they think they're doing the
right thing and aren't listening.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jdanield at free.fr  Thu Apr 11 08:28:25 2013
From: jdanield at free.fr (jdd)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:28:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receive your own posts problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201304102323410890d0d497a3@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1993201304102323410890d0d497a3@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <51665809.1080002@free.fr>

Le 11/04/2013 08:23, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :

> You could try adding your voice to those who've already communicated
> with Google about this, but I suspect they think they're doing the
> right thing and aren't listening.

it's probably possible to open a second gmail account (I know it's 
sometime annoyng) and check the list there :-(

jdd


-- 
http://www.dodin.org

From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Apr 11 08:20:19 2013
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 23:20:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receive your own posts problem
In-Reply-To: <CAP6DAaECOKx-1ghZU2izAQKK43C=L9OWWWir65cME1TfXfVeDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP6DAaECOKx-1ghZU2izAQKK43C=L9OWWWir65cME1TfXfVeDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51665623.4050800@tuunq.com>

Hi,

On 4/10/2013 9:15 AM, Neil Anuskiewicz wrote:
> I just setup a small mailman list (hosted by Bluehost) for a small
> organization. I've set "Receive your own posts to the list?" to yes but i'm
> still not receiving my own posts.
>
> I'm wondering how might go about resolving this issue?

Resolve it by getting off gmail...

> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3

Please read the FAQ for, well, frequently asked questions. It points to:
http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/I+use+Gmail-Googlemail%2C+but+I+can%27t+tell+if+any+of+my+messages+have+been+posted+to+the+list

z!



From nta345 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 11 08:51:29 2013
From: nta345 at gmail.com (Neil Anuskiewicz)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 23:51:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receive your own posts problem
In-Reply-To: <51665809.1080002@free.fr>
References: <PC1993201304102323410890d0d497a3@MSAPIRO>
	<51665809.1080002@free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAP6DAaFuFCn+V=LQ6wkiY=pjukL4i0QbimmkZ-UB_CQTs-SKHw@mail.gmail.com>

I do have a second gmail just for checking my own posts! The thing is this
is an informal list that I setup as a favor for a small organization. A
number of the list members have gmail so I'm not concerned about this for
me but for the subscribers. I'm the list admin so I want to make the
experience as pleasant as possible for my subscribers. Unfortunately, it's
probably not realistic for people to drop their gmail accounts.

You guys are saying that I could contact Google and actually have some
influence? Have a lot of other people brought up the issue with them?

Neil


On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:28 PM, jdd <jdanield at free.fr> wrote:

> Le 11/04/2013 08:23, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :
>
>  You could try adding your voice to those who've already communicated
>> with Google about this, but I suspect they think they're doing the
>> right thing and aren't listening.
>>
>
> it's probably possible to open a second gmail account (I know it's
> sometime annoyng) and check the list there :-(
>
> jdd
>
>
> --
> http://www.dodin.org
> ------------------------------**------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/mailman-users<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/**
> mailman-users%40python.org/<http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/>
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/**mailman/options/mailman-users/**
> nta345%40gmail.com<http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/nta345%40gmail.com>
>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Apr 11 09:23:49 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 16:23:49 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receive your own posts problem
In-Reply-To: <CAP6DAaFuFCn+V=LQ6wkiY=pjukL4i0QbimmkZ-UB_CQTs-SKHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <PC1993201304102323410890d0d497a3@MSAPIRO>
	<51665809.1080002@free.fr>
	<CAP6DAaFuFCn+V=LQ6wkiY=pjukL4i0QbimmkZ-UB_CQTs-SKHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87wqs95y4a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Neil Anuskiewicz writes:

 > You guys are saying that I could contact Google and actually have some
 > influence? Have a lot of other people brought up the issue with
 > them?

No, that was ironic.  A lot of people (including several on this list)
have contacted them and asked them to make it possible to receive your
own sent mail, but they are unwilling to change this for some reason.
As far as I know their stubborn refusal has never received adequate
explanation.

From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Thu Apr 11 14:14:19 2013
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:14:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running an External Command on Subscribe
Message-ID: <5166A91B.8020701@bellsouth.net>

Is there a way to have an external command executed when a subscribe
request is received (both web and email)? If so, how and how do I pass
the requestor's address to it? Thanks.

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From anotheranne at fables.co.za  Thu Apr 11 14:25:10 2013
From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 14:25:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from
	its	ownnetwork
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201304101500500500ae43e826@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1993201304101435030078ae43e651@MSAPIRO>
	<PC1993201304101500500500ae43e826@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <20130411122510.GA12632@fables.co.za>

Hello, Mark,

This action solved the stated problem but now I note that the same
situation pertains in "Tend to pending moderator requests" where
held messages cannot be read or actioned.

Also "Go to list archives". (we do not have this running). The other two
links are fine.

I see three more 'absolute=1' entries in admindb.py - shall I change all
three?

regards
Anne


On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:00:50PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >
> >What we need to do is figure out why those few URLs on the Membership
> >List page are absolute. It may be a bug. I'll look at that.
> 
> 
> There are two places in Mailman/Cgi/admin.py where it requests absolute
> URLs. The relevant code bits are
> 
> def membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc, form):
>     # Show the main stuff
>     adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1)
>     ...
> 
> and
> 
> def password_inputs(mlist):
>     adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1)
> 
> The first of these affects the 'letter/digit' links on the membership
> ant the action for the Search, Submit Your Changes and Set buttons,
> and the second affects (I think) only the link to the general options
> section on the Passwords page.
> 
> I see no reason why these need to be absolute URLs. You could just
> change the two mlist.GetScriptURL lines to
> 
>     adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin')
> 
> and I think that would fix it. If you wouldn't mind trying this and
> reporting, I'd appreciate it and if it seems OK, I'll file a bug and
> change it for 2.1.16.
> 
> There may be some http/https issue around this, but offhand, I can't
> think why.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

From anotheranne at fables.co.za  Thu Apr 11 14:46:48 2013
From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 14:46:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its
	own	network
In-Reply-To: <20130411122510.GA12632@fables.co.za>
References: <PC1993201304101435030078ae43e651@MSAPIRO>
	<PC1993201304101500500500ae43e826@MSAPIRO>
	<20130411122510.GA12632@fables.co.za>
Message-ID: <20130411124648.GB12632@fables.co.za>

Mark, hello,

Actually there were 5 'absolute=1' entries in admindb.py and changing
them all has resolved the issue of pending moderator request, but the
list archives remains absolute.

Awaiting your official confirmation on which entries to change.

Anne

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 02:25:10PM +0200, Anne Wainwright wrote:
> Hello, Mark,
> 
> This action solved the stated problem but now I note that the same
> situation pertains in "Tend to pending moderator requests" where
> held messages cannot be read or actioned.
> 
> Also "Go to list archives". (we do not have this running). The other two
> links are fine.
> 
> I see three more 'absolute=1' entries in admindb.py - shall I change all
> three?
> 
> regards
> Anne
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:00:50PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > >
> > >What we need to do is figure out why those few URLs on the Membership
> > >List page are absolute. It may be a bug. I'll look at that.
> > 
> > 
> > There are two places in Mailman/Cgi/admin.py where it requests absolute
> > URLs. The relevant code bits are
> > 
> > def membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc, form):
> >     # Show the main stuff
> >     adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1)
> >     ...
> > 
> > and
> > 
> > def password_inputs(mlist):
> >     adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1)
> > 
> > The first of these affects the 'letter/digit' links on the membership
> > ant the action for the Search, Submit Your Changes and Set buttons,
> > and the second affects (I think) only the link to the general options
> > section on the Passwords page.
> > 
> > I see no reason why these need to be absolute URLs. You could just
> > change the two mlist.GetScriptURL lines to
> > 
> >     adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin')
> > 
> > and I think that would fix it. If you wouldn't mind trying this and
> > reporting, I'd appreciate it and if it seems OK, I'll file a bug and
> > change it for 2.1.16.
> > 
> > There may be some http/https issue around this, but offhand, I can't
> > think why.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> > San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> > 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/anotheranne%40fables.co.za

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 11 17:14:03 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:14:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receive your own posts problem
In-Reply-To: <CAP6DAaFuFCn+V=LQ6wkiY=pjukL4i0QbimmkZ-UB_CQTs-SKHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304110814030250197980fd@MSAPIRO>

Neil Anuskiewicz wrote:

>I do have a second gmail just for checking my own posts! The thing is this
>is an informal list that I setup as a favor for a small organization. A
>number of the list members have gmail so I'm not concerned about this for
>me but for the subscribers. I'm the list admin so I want to make the
>experience as pleasant as possible for my subscribers. Unfortunately, it's
>probably not realistic for people to drop their gmail accounts.


Are you saying you don't receive the post at your second gmail account
either? If so, that is a different issue than the one in the FAQ we've
been referring to. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jdanield at free.fr  Thu Apr 11 17:16:37 2013
From: jdanield at free.fr (jdd)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:16:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receive your own posts problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201304110814030250197980fd@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1993201304110814030250197980fd@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <5166D3D5.9020101@free.fr>

Le 11/04/2013 17:14, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :
> Neil Anuskiewicz wrote:
>
>> I do have a second gmail just for checking my own posts! The thing is this
>> is an informal list that I setup as a favor for a small organization. A
>> number of the list members have gmail so I'm not concerned about this for
>> me but for the subscribers. I'm the list admin so I want to make the
>> experience as pleasant as possible for my subscribers. Unfortunately, it's
>> probably not realistic for people to drop their gmail accounts.
>
>
> Are you saying you don't receive the post at your second gmail account
> either? If so, that is a different issue than the one in the FAQ we've
> been referring to. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.
>
I think he is saying that his mailing list subscribers subscribed to 
gmail do not receive a copy of they own mail.

fir this we do not have any solution :-)

jdd

-- 
http://www.dodin.org

From davidalanroth at gmail.com  Thu Apr 11 17:21:19 2013
From: davidalanroth at gmail.com (David Roth)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:21:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making a Mailman legacy archive searchable?
Message-ID: <CAN7=Vv_ASUPs4cYF0TSzUvAsgmFcNjuGv+mpd8CDUZyr=1ZAxw@mail.gmail.com>

Is there anything open-source to make a Mailman legacy archive searchable?
What would be useful is a way for visitors to a website to be able to
search the Mailman archives using a keyword and have it display those mail
messages. I'm also thinking of having a tag cloud made up of the most
commonly used words from the given Mailman archive. So when one of those
tag cloud words is clicked on it lists as an index those messages. Any
suggestions? Thanks!

David Roth

From brennan at columbia.edu  Thu Apr 11 17:59:36 2013
From: brennan at columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:59:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receive your own posts problem
In-Reply-To: <5166D3D5.9020101@free.fr>
References: <PC1993201304110814030250197980fd@MSAPIRO>
	<5166D3D5.9020101@free.fr>
Message-ID: <D991386A27DF787CBF8F8A5F@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>


> I think he is saying that his mailing list subscribers subscribed to
> gmail do not receive a copy of they own mail.
>
> fir this we do not have any solution :-)


The solution, or workaround I would say, is to change the Message-ID. 
Possibly, a milter could do this on the way in on the Mailman host. Maybe 
add a fixed string to what's already there.

However this might have some impact on non Gmail users that does not come 
to mind immediately, so I am NOT saying to do this.

Joseph Brennan
Columbia University Information Technology



From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Apr 11 18:06:44 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 01:06:44 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Making a Mailman legacy archive searchable?
In-Reply-To: <CAN7=Vv_ASUPs4cYF0TSzUvAsgmFcNjuGv+mpd8CDUZyr=1ZAxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN7=Vv_ASUPs4cYF0TSzUvAsgmFcNjuGv+mpd8CDUZyr=1ZAxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87obdl59wr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

David Roth writes:

 > Is there anything open-source to make a Mailman legacy archive searchable?

FreeWAIS (oldie but still goodie), Namazu, and Xapian come to mind.
They all require some effort on the part of the user, though.  I don't
know of anything that you can trivially install (eg, from RPM or
.deb).



From davidalanroth at gmail.com  Thu Apr 11 18:14:24 2013
From: davidalanroth at gmail.com (David Roth)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:14:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making a Mailman legacy archive searchable?
In-Reply-To: <87obdl59wr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAN7=Vv_ASUPs4cYF0TSzUvAsgmFcNjuGv+mpd8CDUZyr=1ZAxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<87obdl59wr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAN7=Vv8D6z2JabNv6KqLSW9AqFWFYM3ZhFR11cXjurH1f5cwKw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>wrote:

> David Roth writes:
>
>  > Is there anything open-source to make a Mailman legacy archive
> searchable?
>
> FreeWAIS (oldie but still goodie), Namazu, and Xapian come to mind.
> They all require some effort on the part of the user, though.  I don't
> know of anything that you can trivially install (eg, from RPM or
> .deb).
>
>
> Working out-of-the-box is always nice, but I wasn't expecting it entirely.
Anyone happen to have a URL to someone doing searchable Mailman archives,
just so I could see what others have done as an example? Thanks!

David Roth

From jdanield at free.fr  Thu Apr 11 18:36:09 2013
From: jdanield at free.fr (jdd)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 18:36:09 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making a Mailman legacy archive searchable?
In-Reply-To: <CAN7=Vv8D6z2JabNv6KqLSW9AqFWFYM3ZhFR11cXjurH1f5cwKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN7=Vv_ASUPs4cYF0TSzUvAsgmFcNjuGv+mpd8CDUZyr=1ZAxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<87obdl59wr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<CAN7=Vv8D6z2JabNv6KqLSW9AqFWFYM3ZhFR11cXjurH1f5cwKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5166E679.4040108@free.fr>

Le 11/04/2013 18:14, David Roth a ?crit :

> Anyone happen to have a URL to someone doing searchable Mailman archives,
> just so I could see what others have done as an example? Thanks!

if the archive is public, a simple google site:XXX link should do the 
trick

jdd


-- 
http://www.dodin.org

From James.Millsap at chicagobooth.edu  Thu Apr 11 18:07:43 2013
From: James.Millsap at chicagobooth.edu (Millsap, James)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 16:07:43 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.14 stops sending mail
In-Reply-To: <5165D2AC.6010408@msapiro.net>
References: <EFA30B2F0470CE4EAD2014F9C1336B5841065A06@bushexmb01.gsb.uchicago.edu>
	<5165D2AC.6010408@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <EFA30B2F0470CE4EAD2014F9C1336B5841066A83@bushexmb01.gsb.uchicago.edu>

Unfortunately It is difficult as this machine is critical to our operations, I don't have a whole lot of time to troubleshoot, before I must have it up and running. It usually takes around two days for this issue to come up.  -TERM will kill it, no need to use --KILL. This is built from source so no redhat packages.   This is what I have in the qrunner log. 

Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17606) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17606) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17612) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17612) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17607) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17608) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17608) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17609) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17609) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17610) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17610) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17613) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17613) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 17606, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 17608, sig: None, sts: 15, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 17609, sig: None, sts: 15, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 17610, sig: None, sts: 15, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 17612, sig: None, sts: 15, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 17613, sig: None, sts: 15, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17607) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 17607, sig: None, sts: 15, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 10 10:01:37 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Apr 10 10:01:37 2013 (17604) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
Apr 10 10:01:37 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Apr 10 10:01:37 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 10 10:01:38 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 17611, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 10 10:01:58 2013 (15858) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15859) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15856) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15857) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15862) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15860) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15863) RetryRunner qrunner started.
Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15861) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 3:59 PM
To: Millsap, James
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.14 stops sending mail

On 4/10/2013 8:43 AM, Millsap, James wrote:
> 
> mailman  15854     1  0 10:01 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start
> mailman  15861 15854  0 10:01 ?        00:00:06 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
> 
> I have to kill the outgoingrunner specifically.  The only thing I see in the logs is a lack of logging.  It has been running with stunning reliability on this machine for the last few years, so I am not sure what is going on.  Perhaps one of redhat's patches killed it.


Can you kill -TERM it or do you need to kill -KILL it?

Are you sure there's nothing relevant in Mailman's qrunner log (/var/log/mailman/qrunner if a rhel packaged Mailman)? Is there a current .bak file in the out queue (/var/spool/mailman/out/)

What does 'lsof' show for the process? You might be able to get something useful from 'gdb' or maybe see something like <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/132058/showing-the-stack-trace-from-a-running-python-application>.

If I had to guess, I'd guess it gets hung waiting for an SMTP response from the MTA.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 11 18:39:47 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:39:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making a Mailman legacy archive searchable?
In-Reply-To: <CAN7=Vv8D6z2JabNv6KqLSW9AqFWFYM3ZhFR11cXjurH1f5cwKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013041109394706561869d0bf@MSAPIRO>

David Roth wrote:
>>
>> Working out-of-the-box is always nice, but I wasn't expecting it entirely.
>Anyone happen to have a URL to someone doing searchable Mailman archives,
>just so I could see what others have done as an example? Thanks!


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/MoA9>.

I use ht://dig. See the link at the bottom of the FAQ.

It's not a very good example, most of my lists have private arrchives,
but see <http://www.grizz.org/pipermail/gpc-test/> for an example of
what it looks like.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rb211 at tds.net  Thu Apr 11 18:25:09 2013
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:25:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receive your own posts problem
In-Reply-To: <D991386A27DF787CBF8F8A5F@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>
References: <PC1993201304110814030250197980fd@MSAPIRO>
	<5166D3D5.9020101@free.fr>
	<D991386A27DF787CBF8F8A5F@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <201304111225.09595.rb211@tds.net>

On Thursday 11 April 2013, Joseph Brennan wrote:
> The solution, or workaround I would say, is to change the Message-ID.
> Possibly, a milter could do this on the way in on the Mailman host. Maybe
> add a fixed string to what's already there.
>
> However this might have some impact on non Gmail users that does not come
> to mind immediately, so I am NOT saying to do this.

As long as it defaults off and is user selectable I think this would be a 
nice feature. Suggested similar in the past... It will break threading for 
those of us who want full Usenet style indented threading. Doubt that those 
who read mail in a web browser or read and delete will notice.
-- 
William

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Apr 11 19:28:37 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 02:28:37 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receive your own posts problem
In-Reply-To: <201304111225.09595.rb211@tds.net>
References: <PC1993201304110814030250197980fd@MSAPIRO>
	<5166D3D5.9020101@free.fr>
	<D991386A27DF787CBF8F8A5F@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>
	<201304111225.09595.rb211@tds.net>
Message-ID: <87k3o9564a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

William Bagwell writes:

 > As long as it defaults off and is user selectable I think this would be a 
 > nice feature.

No, by definition it's a nasty feature, as it involves nonconformance
to RFC 5322.

 > Suggested similar in the past... It will break threading for those
 > of us who want full Usenet style indented threading. Doubt that
 > those who read mail in a web browser or read and delete will
 > notice.

They will if they're CC'd and try to search archives by Message-ID, or
if they have a deduplicator running locally.

From barry at list.org  Thu Apr 11 19:45:21 2013
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 13:45:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making a Mailman legacy archive searchable?
In-Reply-To: <87obdl59wr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAN7=Vv_ASUPs4cYF0TSzUvAsgmFcNjuGv+mpd8CDUZyr=1ZAxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<87obdl59wr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20130411134521.693b7a0b@anarchist>

On Apr 12, 2013, at 01:06 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>FreeWAIS (oldie but still goodie), Namazu, and Xapian come to mind.
>They all require some effort on the part of the user, though.  I don't
>know of anything that you can trivially install (eg, from RPM or
>.deb).

Whoosh is technology I'm looking at for Mailman 3.

https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Whoosh/2.4.1

-Barry

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 11 20:04:33 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:04:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running an External Command on Subscribe
In-Reply-To: <5166A91B.8020701@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <PC19932013041111043308591869d17c@MSAPIRO>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>Is there a way to have an external command executed when a subscribe
>request is received (both web and email)?


Not without code modification.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Thu Apr 11 20:44:34 2013
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 14:44:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running an External Command on Subscribe
In-Reply-To: <PC19932013041111043308591869d17c@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19932013041111043308591869d17c@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <51670492.4030208@bellsouth.net>

Is there some place (log) I can monitor to detect a new subscriber for a
particular list?

On 4/11/2013 2:04 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Dennis Putnam wrote:
>> Is there a way to have an external command executed when a subscribe
>> request is received (both web and email)?
>
> Not without code modification.
>


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From rb211 at tds.net  Thu Apr 11 20:57:57 2013
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 14:57:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receive your own posts problem
In-Reply-To: <87k3o9564a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1993201304110814030250197980fd@MSAPIRO>
	<201304111225.09595.rb211@tds.net>
	<87k3o9564a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <201304111457.57130.rb211@tds.net>

On Thursday 11 April 2013, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> No, by definition it's a nasty feature, as it involves nonconformance
> to RFC 5322.

How so? I see two places in section 3.6.4. that suggest otherwise.
" A message
   identifier pertains to exactly one version of a particular message;
   subsequent revisions to the message each receive new message
   identifiers."

So if a list adds a footer to the body of a message (many do) then that 
implies that the Message-ID /should/ be changed. Obviously Mailman does not 
want to break threading for no good reason. However fighting Gmail's 
annoying feature with a less annoying kludge is a good enough reason in my 
book.

Just below, same section 3.6.4., top of page 25, "In all
      cases, it is the meaning that the sender of the message wishes to
      convey (i.e., whether this is the same message or a different
      message) that determines whether or not the "Message-ID:" field
      changes, not any particular syntactic difference that appears (or
      does not appear) in the message."

If the sender ticks the box telling Mailman to change the Message-ID then 
they get to take the heat. Other settings have brief descriptions / warnings 
so a sentence warning about breaking threading and the other issues you 
raise would not be out of place.
-- 
William

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 11 22:13:16 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 13:13:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running an External Command on Subscribe
In-Reply-To: <51670492.4030208@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304111313160093cde0586d@MSAPIRO>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>Is there some place (log) I can monitor to detect a new subscriber for a
>particular list?


Mailman's 'subscribe' log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 12 01:02:31 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 16:02:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from
	itsown	network
In-Reply-To: <20130411124648.GB12632@fables.co.za>
Message-ID: <PC19932013041116023107503ba5250d@MSAPIRO>

Anne Wainwright wrote:
>
>Actually there were 5 'absolute=1' entries in admindb.py and changing
>them all has resolved the issue of pending moderator request, but the
>list archives remains absolute.


Current Mailman has only 4. The change between 2.1.14 and 2.1.15 to add
the logout button inserted this one

        # Now print the results and we're done.  Short circuit for when
there
        # are no pending requests, but be sure to save the results!
        admindburl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admindb', absolute=1)
        if not mlist.NumRequestsPending():

and removed these two

            doc.AddItem(_('There are no pending requests.'))
            doc.AddItem(' ')
            doc.AddItem(Link(mlist.GetScriptURL('admindb', absolute=1),
                             _('Click here to reload this page.')))
            doc.AddItem(mlist.GetMailmanFooter())
            print doc.Format()
            mlist.Save()
            return

        admindburl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admindb', absolute=1)
        form = Form(admindburl)
        # Add the instructions template

In any case, you want to remove ', absolute=1' from the two or its one
replacement.

That leaves these three:

in main()

        # Add a link back to the overview, if we're not viewing the
overview!
        adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1)

in handle_no_list()

    url = Utils.ScriptURL('admin', absolute=1)
    link = Link(url, _('list of available mailing lists.')).Format()
    doc.AddItem(_('You must specify a list name.  Here is the
%(link)s'))

and in show_helds_overview)_

    # Add the by-sender overview tables
    admindburl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admindb', absolute=1)

The last of these should definitely be changed. The other two are
actually links back to the admin (not admindb) overview page. The one
in main() is a link to the admin overview for the host of the list
that we're currently processing in the admindb page, but the one in
handle_no_list() is different because there is no list. Depending of
site configuration, the host in this URL if absolute may be the web
host of the current page, or it may be DEFAULT_URL_HOST. This could
cause problems with a relative URL if the absolute one should go to
DEFAULT_URL_HOST.

So I would say in your case, you can probably safely remove them all,
but in terms of what I might do for a bug and fix, I may not do the
one in handle_no_list().

As far as the archive URL is concerned, this is generated differently
as it has to take into account whether the archives are public or
private and the setting for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL and it's always
absolute.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Apr 12 05:48:37 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:48:37 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receive your own posts problem
In-Reply-To: <201304111457.57130.rb211@tds.net>
References: <PC1993201304110814030250197980fd@MSAPIRO>
	<201304111225.09595.rb211@tds.net>
	<87k3o9564a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<201304111457.57130.rb211@tds.net>
Message-ID: <87ip3s5rze.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

William Bagwell writes:

 > So if a list adds a footer to the body of a message (many do) then that 
 > implies that the Message-ID /should/ be changed.

No.  As the section you quoted later shows, that is a "syntactic
difference" and clearly *not* a reason for changing the Message-ID.

 > Obviously Mailman does not want to break threading for no good
 > reason. However fighting Gmail's annoying feature with a less
 > annoying kludge is a good enough reason in my book.

I didn't say that individual site managers couldn't do this.  I think
it's a bad idea for Mailman to provide the feature.  I'll probably
lose, just like we've lost on Reply-To munging.  Note that it's a
10-line or so Handler, which you place near the CookHeaders Handler.

I realize that having Mailman provide the option is the most
convenient way to handle the issue, and if individual senders consider
that the message in their Sent folder, the copy that they receive via
self-cc, and the copy they receive via the list are different, then
they are arguably within the RFC to have the Message-IDs changed.  I
think that's a misinterpretation of the RFC, but I doubt even the RFC
authors have thought carefully about Gmail's perverse behavior in this
context.

Note that there are already ways for senders to handle the issue.  For
example, have Mailman ACK your posts, which tells you Mailman has
received and distributed the post.  Accept that sometimes you're
boring and nobody replies -- if they do, Gmail does display your sent
posts as part of the "conversation", which should be fine.

Of course, this is a little painful for the sender.  But that's as it
should be, since "We know you DO have a choice of airlines, and we
thank you for traveling with United today."  If you don't like the
inflight meal, pay for business class.  Get another MUA.

 > If the sender ticks the box telling Mailman to change the
 > Message-ID then they get to take the heat.

No, the sender gets exactly what she wants, and is very unlikely to
take any heat.  Mailman will get to take the heat when their non-list
correspondents complain, usually directly to list owners rather than
to senders, and occasionally to Mailman-Users.  You understand the
consequences of that choice, but in my experience most users won't,
and will impose problems on third parties without hesitation.

This feature, like Reply-To munging, is an invitation to smoking in
the elevators.

 > Other settings have brief descriptions / warnings so a sentence
 > warning about breaking threading

It doesn't break threading, except for the sender (that's exactly what
they want), and Cc/Bcc-only recipients (who don't deserve this).  In
fact, according to your argument claiming the feature conforms to RFC,
it doesn't break threading at all, since only the message distributed
via the list is part of the list thread.  The other message generated
by the proposed feature is in a separate subthread.

 > and the other issues you raise would not be out of place.

"If you enable this feature without complaining vigorously and
periodically to Gmail, then you are a selfish antisocial wretch" 
would do in my book. ;-)

An alternative to telling them they're being selfish would be to
automatically enable ACK on people who enable Message-ID munging to
remind them of the trouble they may be imposing on others, and give
them an incentive to stop it.

Yet another alternative would be to reject list posts that contain
CCs.  Then *all* problems are restricted to the sender and Bcc
recipients (but they're unusual as far as I know), because nobody else
ever sees the original Message-ID.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 12 06:06:19 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 21:06:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.14 stops sending mail
In-Reply-To: <EFA30B2F0470CE4EAD2014F9C1336B5841066A83@bushexmb01.gsb.uchicago.edu>
References: <EFA30B2F0470CE4EAD2014F9C1336B5841065A06@bushexmb01.gsb.uchicago.edu>
	<5165D2AC.6010408@msapiro.net>
	<EFA30B2F0470CE4EAD2014F9C1336B5841066A83@bushexmb01.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <5167883B.3080701@msapiro.net>

On 4/11/2013 9:07 AM, Millsap, James wrote:
> Unfortunately It is difficult as this machine is critical to our
operations, I don't have a whole lot of time to troubleshoot, before I
must have it up and running. It usually takes around two days for this
issue to come up. -TERM will kill it, no need to use --KILL. This is
built from source so no redhat packages. This is what I have in the
qrunner log.
> 
[...]
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
[...]
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
[...]
> Apr 10 10:01:37 2013 (17604) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:37 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:37 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:38 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17611, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[...]


Interesting that OutgoingRunner wouldn't exit until SIGTERMed a second
time. It seems highly likely that it is waiting on something 'not
interruptable' and this is why it stops processing in the first place
and is reluctant to die.

The real question is what's it waiting on and why? Without the answer or
some more clue to this, I don't know what.

Check the MTA logs from the time OutgoingRunner 'hung' and the time it
was SIGTERMed. Also consider enabling smtplib debug logging (see
<http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9>).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From fabio.dalan at jrc.ec.europa.eu  Thu Apr 11 19:12:13 2013
From: fabio.dalan at jrc.ec.europa.eu (Fabio Dalan)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 19:12:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing mailman@list
Message-ID: <5166EEED.9070002@jrc.ec.europa.eu>

Dear all,

I am using Mailman in a website to manage some list.
The system automatically generates thise pages

http://lists.ermes-group.eu/mailman/admin
http://lists.ermes-group.eu/mailman/listinfo

sending users to the email address mailman at ermes....
that does not exist.

Do you know how I can costumazie those pages?
Many thanks in advance.
Fabio Dalan


From jimpop at gmail.com  Thu Apr 11 20:22:49 2013
From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 14:22:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.14 stops sending mail
In-Reply-To: <EFA30B2F0470CE4EAD2014F9C1336B5841066A83@bushexmb01.gsb.uchicago.edu>
References: <EFA30B2F0470CE4EAD2014F9C1336B5841065A06@bushexmb01.gsb.uchicago.edu>
	<5165D2AC.6010408@msapiro.net>
	<EFA30B2F0470CE4EAD2014F9C1336B5841066A83@bushexmb01.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <CAGfsgR3oujffjJ0Hybbbz_Q4-oO4p4kkXbfw9=T=fKmDENgf7g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Millsap, James
<James.Millsap at chicagobooth.edu> wrote:
> Unfortunately It is difficult as this machine is critical to our operations, I don't have a whole lot of time to troubleshoot, before I must have it up and running. It usually takes around two days for this issue to come up.  -TERM will kill it, no need to use --KILL. This is built from source so no redhat packages.   This is what I have in the qrunner log.
>
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17606) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17606) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17612) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17612) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17607) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17608) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17608) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17609) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17609) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17610) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17610) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17613) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17613) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17606, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1)
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17608, sig: None, sts: 15, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1)
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17609, sig: None, sts: 15, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17610, sig: None, sts: 15, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1)
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17612, sig: None, sts: 15, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1)
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17613, sig: None, sts: 15, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1)
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17607) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17607, sig: None, sts: 15, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1)
> Apr 10 10:01:37 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:37 2013 (17604) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:37 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:37 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:38 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17611, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)

.... approx 20 seconds time ....

> Apr 10 10:01:58 2013 (15858) CommandRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15859) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15856) ArchRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15857) BounceRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15862) VirginRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15860) NewsRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15863) RetryRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15861) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.

To me, the above looks like a system reboot.   Is something rebooting
the box at 10am?

-Jim P.

From sneha.22.7 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 11 21:44:39 2013
From: sneha.22.7 at gmail.com (Sneha Bhattacharya)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 01:14:39 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in mailman2.1.0
Message-ID: <CAA0Eh7vR_6-9+7RHStdHEYNBguCkgWMvSdiDoFqPX4U0TpjsQQ@mail.gmail.com>

I had been using mailman properly since the last few days but suddenly i am
getting this error while going to my admin page :

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.10 We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.


there are no errors in the error log.


can anyone please help?


Regards

Sneha

From James.Millsap at chicagobooth.edu  Fri Apr 12 16:34:28 2013
From: James.Millsap at chicagobooth.edu (Millsap, James)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:34:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.14 stops sending mail
In-Reply-To: <CAGfsgR3oujffjJ0Hybbbz_Q4-oO4p4kkXbfw9=T=fKmDENgf7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EFA30B2F0470CE4EAD2014F9C1336B5841065A06@bushexmb01.gsb.uchicago.edu>
	<5165D2AC.6010408@msapiro.net>
	<EFA30B2F0470CE4EAD2014F9C1336B5841066A83@bushexmb01.gsb.uchicago.edu>
	<CAGfsgR3oujffjJ0Hybbbz_Q4-oO4p4kkXbfw9=T=fKmDENgf7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EFA30B2F0470CE4EAD2014F9C1336B58410675EA@bushexmb01.gsb.uchicago.edu>

Nope, it just took me that long to make sure all of the processes were down, and restart them.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+james.millsap=chicagobooth.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of Jim Popovitch
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 1:23 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.14 stops sending mail

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Millsap, James <James.Millsap at chicagobooth.edu> wrote:
> Unfortunately It is difficult as this machine is critical to our operations, I don't have a whole lot of time to troubleshoot, before I must have it up and running. It usually takes around two days for this issue to come up.  -TERM will kill it, no need to use --KILL. This is built from source so no redhat packages.   This is what I have in the qrunner log.
>
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17606) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17606) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17612) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17612) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17607) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17608) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17608) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17609) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17609) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17610) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17610) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17613) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17613) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17606, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) Apr 10 
> 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17608, sig: None, sts: 15, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) Apr 
> 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17609, sig: None, sts: 15, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) 
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17610, sig: None, sts: 15, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1) Apr 10 
> 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17612, sig: None, sts: 15, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) Apr 
> 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17613, sig: None, sts: 15, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1) Apr 
> 10 10:01:08 2013 (17607) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:08 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17607, sig: None, sts: 15, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) Apr 
> 10 10:01:37 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:37 2013 (17604) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:37 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> Apr 10 10:01:37 2013 (17611) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
> Apr 10 10:01:38 2013 (17604) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 17611, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)

.... approx 20 seconds time ....

> Apr 10 10:01:58 2013 (15858) CommandRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15859) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15856) ArchRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15857) BounceRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15862) VirginRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15860) NewsRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15863) RetryRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 10 10:01:59 2013 (15861) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.

To me, the above looks like a system reboot.   Is something rebooting
the box at 10am?

-Jim P.
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/james.millsap%40chicagobooth.edu

From odhiambo at gmail.com  Fri Apr 12 16:56:17 2013
From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:56:17 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in mailman2.1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAA0Eh7vR_6-9+7RHStdHEYNBguCkgWMvSdiDoFqPX4U0TpjsQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA0Eh7vR_6-9+7RHStdHEYNBguCkgWMvSdiDoFqPX4U0TpjsQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAdA2WN8LJnX0tEJS=JhG0Ak5YbujLXTY=vh9CQ4Ugw6P3wUaA@mail.gmail.com>

Not without error details. You must find the error. Perhaps you are looking
at the wrong file.


On 11 April 2013 22:44, Sneha Bhattacharya <sneha.22.7 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I had been using mailman properly since the last few days but suddenly i am
> getting this error while going to my admin page :
>
> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.10 We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
> traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
> the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>
>
> there are no errors in the error log.
>
>
> can anyone please help?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Sneha
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/odhiambo%40gmail.com
>



-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
"I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 12 20:08:40 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:08:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing mailman@list
In-Reply-To: <5166EEED.9070002@jrc.ec.europa.eu>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304121108400028de7a4244@MSAPIRO>

Fabio Dalan wrote:
>
>I am using Mailman in a website to manage some list.
>The system automatically generates thise pages
>
>http://lists.ermes-group.eu/mailman/admin
>http://lists.ermes-group.eu/mailman/listinfo
>
>sending users to the email address mailman at ermes....
>that does not exist.
>
>Do you know how I can costumazie those pages?


These pages are hard coded in Mailman/Cgi/admin.py and
Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py and can't be changed without changing that
code.

However, that isn't the answer. mailman at ermes... is the posting address
for the 'mailman' site list. This list exists. You can't start Mailman
without it (mailmanctl will refuse to rin if it isn't there). The
Mailman site admin and other interested parties should be members of
this list and the list should accept non-member posts. Then users can
mail to mailman at ermes..., and the mail will be appropriately delivered.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 12 20:20:28 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:20:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in mailman2.1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAA0Eh7vR_6-9+7RHStdHEYNBguCkgWMvSdiDoFqPX4U0TpjsQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013041211202802781a805f32@MSAPIRO>

Sneha Bhattacharya wrote:

>I had been using mailman properly since the last few days but suddenly i am
>getting this error while going to my admin page :
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.10 We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
>the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>
>
>there are no errors in the error log.


If Mailman's error log is empty, there are other issues with
permissions. Where are you looking? Mailman's logs are in their own
directory; where depends on the installation, but that directory
should contain most of the logs 'bounce', 'error', 'fromusenet',
'locks', 'mischief', 'post', 'qrunner', 'smtp', 'smtp-failure',
'subscribe' and 'vette'. In a new installation, some of these won't
exist as they have never been written, but at least 'post', 'qrunner',
'smtp' and 'subscribe' should be there and non-empty in any
installation with working lists.

If you are not seeing these logs with current content, you are not
looking in the correct directory.

W e neen the error and traceback information from the error log to help
diagnose your problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 12 22:35:34 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:35:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server
	fromitsown	network
In-Reply-To: <PC19932013041116023107503ba5250d@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304121335340591f62fe871@MSAPIRO>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>So I would say in your case, you can probably safely remove them all,
>but in terms of what I might do for a bug and fix, I may not do the
>one in handle_no_list().


I was going to file a bug and 'fix' this, but I have instead asked a
question on mailman-developers. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2013-April/022761.html>
for that post and what I'm concerned about.

In the mean time, it occurred to me that possibly you could fix this
without changing Mailman simply by putting an appropriate entry in
/etc/hosts on your 'inside the lan' work station.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anotheranne at fables.co.za  Sun Apr 14 19:13:57 2013
From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright)
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 19:13:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its
	own	network
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201304121335340591f62fe871@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19932013041116023107503ba5250d@MSAPIRO>
	<PC1993201304121335340591f62fe871@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <20130414171357.GA20342@fables.co.za>

Hello, Mark.

I have tried that with partial success, but there is another odd
unmentioned behaviour that I have/had to cope with.

When I click on a 0-9A-Z link I am dumped outside back at the login
window. When I log in a second time I am presented with the list of
members that I wanted in the first place, subsequent queries work first
time. Similarly when I need to moderate a message.

I am not sure under what exact conditions this happens, even if it is
consistent across the 3 machines that could be used. So will try and
determine a consistent set of circumstances under which this occurs.

At the moment removing the 'absolute=1' entries does the job 100%.

Anne



On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 01:35:34PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >
> >So I would say in your case, you can probably safely remove them all,
> >but in terms of what I might do for a bug and fix, I may not do the
> >one in handle_no_list().
> 
> 
> I was going to file a bug and 'fix' this, but I have instead asked a
> question on mailman-developers. See
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2013-April/022761.html>
> for that post and what I'm concerned about.
> 
> In the mean time, it occurred to me that possibly you could fix this
> without changing Mailman simply by putting an appropriate entry in
> /etc/hosts on your 'inside the lan' work station.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 15 01:14:32 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 16:14:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its
	own	network
In-Reply-To: <20130414171357.GA20342@fables.co.za>
References: <PC19932013041116023107503ba5250d@MSAPIRO>
	<PC1993201304121335340591f62fe871@MSAPIRO>
	<20130414171357.GA20342@fables.co.za>
Message-ID: <516B3858.2090004@msapiro.net>

On 4/14/2013 10:13 AM, Anne Wainwright wrote:
> 
> I have tried that with partial success, but there is another odd 
> unmentioned behaviour that I have/had to cope with.
> 
> When I click on a 0-9A-Z link I am dumped outside back at the
> login window. When I log in a second time I am presented with the
> list of members that I wanted in the first place, subsequent
> queries work first time. Similarly when I need to moderate a
> message.


If I understand correctly, this is what's happening in those cases.
You have a /etc/hosts or whatever to direct the 'outside' host to the
'inside' host. You go to the admin or admindb page via an 'inside'
URL (probably a bookmark) and log in. Once there, relative links work
fine. You go to a link with an absolute URL. This points to the
'outside' host which as far as your browser is concerned is not the
host that set the authentication cookie so it is not returned to the
'outside' host and you have to log in again. Once you have logged in
once for each host, you are authenticated for the rest of the browser
session.

The answer is if you have /etc/hosts or whatever routing the 'outside'
host to the 'inside' host, never go to the 'inside' host (fix your
bookmarks to point to the 'outside' host name).


> At the moment removing the 'absolute=1' entries does the job 100%.


If you do notice any issues related to this, please let me know.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jfayre at gmail.com  Mon Apr 15 04:40:00 2013
From: jfayre at gmail.com (Jason Fayre)
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 22:40:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating to a VPS and large mail archives
Message-ID: <516B6880.4030805@gmail.com>

Hello,
I am administering a server that runs around 150 lists.  The mail 
archives are around 26gb in size.  Due to the server being hacked and 
various other reasons, we want to move the mailing lists over to  a 
virtual server.  Most VPS plans only give you around 20 to 30gb of disk 
space.  I'm sure I'm not the first person to run into this sort of 
issue.  What have other people done for things like mail archives?  I 
was thinking of doing something with amazon s3. Looking for any thoughts 
people may have.


From jdanield at free.fr  Mon Apr 15 09:02:07 2013
From: jdanield at free.fr (jdanield)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 09:02:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating to a VPS and large mail archives
In-Reply-To: <516B6880.4030805@gmail.com>
References: <516B6880.4030805@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <516BA5EF.6050408@free.fr>

Le 15/04/2013 04:40, Jason Fayre a ?crit :

> virtual server.  Most VPS plans only give you around 20 to 30gb of disk
> space.

that's for system... what about a iscsi storage?

and why don't you simply loan a dedicated serveur (I have then for $15 
an month and 1Tb storage)!

jdd

-- 
http://dodin.org

From anotheranne at fables.co.za  Mon Apr 15 19:53:56 2013
From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 19:53:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its
	own	network
In-Reply-To: <516B3858.2090004@msapiro.net>
References: <PC19932013041116023107503ba5250d@MSAPIRO>
	<PC1993201304121335340591f62fe871@MSAPIRO>
	<20130414171357.GA20342@fables.co.za>
	<516B3858.2090004@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20130415175356.GA20534@fables.co.za>

Hi, Mark,

read below.

On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 04:14:32PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 4/14/2013 10:13 AM, Anne Wainwright wrote:
> > 
> > I have tried that with partial success, but there is another odd 
> > unmentioned behaviour that I have/had to cope with.
> > 
> > When I click on a 0-9A-Z link I am dumped outside back at the
> > login window. When I log in a second time I am presented with the
> > list of members that I wanted in the first place, subsequent
> > queries work first time. Similarly when I need to moderate a
> > message.
> 
> 
> If I understand correctly, this is what's happening in those cases.
> You have a /etc/hosts or whatever to direct the 'outside' host to the
> 'inside' host. You go to the admin or admindb page via an 'inside'
> URL (probably a bookmark) and log in. Once there, relative links work
> fine. You go to a link with an absolute URL. This points to the
> 'outside' host which as far as your browser is concerned is not the
> host that set the authentication cookie so it is not returned to the
> 'outside' host and you have to log in again. Once you have logged in
> once for each host, you are authenticated for the rest of the browser
> session.
> 
> The answer is if you have /etc/hosts or whatever routing the 'outside'
> host to the 'inside' host, never go to the 'inside' host (fix your
> bookmarks to point to the 'outside' host name).

I had attacked this by a circuitous route, putting the ip address in the
bookmark because I did not have an entry in /etc/hosts. When I got to
putting an entry in /etc/hosts I did not change the bookmark. So ...

Yes, that is totally correct. I am leaving it like that for the moment
to ensure there are no issues, and I can modify my FAQ 4.88 to reflect
this. Whatever else, for any one implementing a relay server it seems the
best way rather than have them editing away at key coding files.

> 
> > At the moment removing the 'absolute=1' entries does the job 100%.
> 
> 
> If you do notice any issues related to this, please let me know.

I will return to this configuration in a short while and will report on
any issues or lack thereof.

thanks for all the time taken

Anne
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From al-black at telus.net  Tue Apr 16 08:56:47 2013
From: al-black at telus.net (Al Black)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 00:56:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] member address in envolope ID and From: lines
Message-ID: <7A7626FF-1D90-453F-A5C5-42C53A59A1E0@telus.net>

Hi everyone,

I'm working with an issue that is related to:

<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2012-March/073047.html>
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2012-June/073641.html>

Specifically, I have some users on a couple of lists that are gmail users with multiple accounts linked to that gmail address.  They use it to send mail while at work, but still have it appear to come from their home address.  All good except when they a) screw up with the wrong address, or b) when that old address is no longer active.  (And there is a history of people forging mail on the lists, not the case now, but you know people are sensitive about the issue...)

I have modified the mm_cfg.py file from:

SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')

to:

SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', 'reply-to', 'sender')

and it works.

Thinking about it a bit more, it would be better if there was a check to make sure the email address in the envelope ID matched actually matched the address in the "From:".  Is there a way of setting that in the  mm_cfg.py file?  Ideally, my preference would be to work with the individual users on this, in part because it only happened on a couple of lists.  Could a Regexp catch this in the spam filters settings.

Thanks!

al

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 16 19:34:11 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 10:34:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] member address in envolope ID and From: lines
In-Reply-To: <7A7626FF-1D90-453F-A5C5-42C53A59A1E0@telus.net>
References: <7A7626FF-1D90-453F-A5C5-42C53A59A1E0@telus.net>
Message-ID: <516D8B93.2070607@msapiro.net>

On 4/15/2013 11:56 PM, Al Black wrote:
> 
> Thinking about it a bit more, it would be better if there was a check
> to make sure the email address in the envelope ID matched actually
> matched the address in the "From:".  Is there a way of setting that
> in the  mm_cfg.py file?  Ideally, my preference would be to work with
> the individual users on this, in part because it only happened on a
> couple of lists.  Could a Regexp catch this in the spam filters
> settings.


The comment at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1154004/comments/7> suggests a
way to use header_filter_rules to make sure the Sender: (if any) and
From: addresses match. Assuming your MTA is standards compliant and puts
the envelope sender in a Return-Path: header, you could use something
like that. It would have the advantage over Sender: in that Return-Path:
would always precede From: and you wouldn't have to worry about the
other order.

Still, a custom handler <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> is probably more
robust.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Apr 17 06:24:14 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 13:24:14 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  member address in envolope ID and From: lines
In-Reply-To: <7A7626FF-1D90-453F-A5C5-42C53A59A1E0@telus.net>
References: <7A7626FF-1D90-453F-A5C5-42C53A59A1E0@telus.net>
Message-ID: <87txn53hu9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Al Black writes:

 > Specifically, I have some users on a couple of lists that are gmail
 > users with multiple accounts linked to that gmail address.  They
 > use it to send mail while at work, but still have it appear to come
 > from their home address.

This means that the envelope address will not match the From address
as far as I can see.  So I don't understand this requirement:

 > Thinking about it a bit more, it would be better if there was a
 > check to make sure the email address in the envelope ID matched
 > actually matched the address in the "From:".

This is a very strong requirement to impose on users.  It makes it
difficult to present yourself appropriately if you're sending from a
different address for some reason.  (If I misunderstood the scenario
you present in the first paragraph, this may not be a problem for your
subscribers, but I would find it a major PITA if I were subscribed.)

OTOH, in most cases it should not be restrictive to require envelope
sender = Sender.


From al-black at telus.net  Wed Apr 17 09:11:02 2013
From: al-black at telus.net (Al Black)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 01:11:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] member address in envolope ID and From: lines
In-Reply-To: <87txn53hu9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <7A7626FF-1D90-453F-A5C5-42C53A59A1E0@telus.net>
	<87txn53hu9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <C7DCC966-97D2-4E33-B28B-52D7D515F0D7@telus.net>

Hey everyone:

On 2013-04-16, at 10:24 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> Al Black writes:
> 
>> Specifically, I have some users on a couple of lists that are gmail
>> users with multiple accounts linked to that gmail address.  They
>> use it to send mail while at work, but still have it appear to come
>> from their home address.
> 
> This means that the envelope address will not match the From address
> as far as I can see.  So I don't understand this requirement:
> 
>> Thinking about it a bit more, it would be better if there was a
>> check to make sure the email address in the envelope ID matched
>> actually matched the address in the "From:".
> 
> This is a very strong requirement to impose on users.  It makes it
> difficult to present yourself appropriately if you're sending from a
> different address for some reason.  (If I misunderstood the scenario
> you present in the first paragraph, this may not be a problem for your
> subscribers, but I would find it a major PITA if I were subscribed.)
> 
> OTOH, in most cases it should not be restrictive to require envelope
> sender = Sender.

I see the confusion.  The problem occurs when the person sends from
gmail but accidentally uses a From: address they don't have subscribed
to the list.  That's the one's I'm trying to catch, because it creates
list mayhem about forged mail etc etc. 

Good point Stephen, I'm going to dig through a couple months of mail
on the list to make sure I'm not using a hammer to solve a gnat problem.

@ Mark -- Thanks, I'll try both, but most likely will implement a custom
handler.

All the best,
al

From cwieland at uci.edu  Wed Apr 17 23:49:21 2013
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 14:49:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving a mailman server
Message-ID: <DD2E43AE-CD2D-4145-8444-A790AF2F95E5@uci.edu>

Hello all,

It has been a while since I've done this but I am moving one of our mailman servers to a new machine and upgrading at the same time from version 2.1.9 to version 2.1.14. I have in the past installed mailman, postfix, and apache and then copied the ~mailman/lists and ~mailman/archives files over and renamed the machine. With a few caveats I have made this work quite successfully before. This time it seems to work but the problem I am having is after I copy the lists they do not appear on the web interface when I goto: http://dev-maillists.nac.uci.edu/mailman/admin

I only see list created locally on the server. I can goto the admin page and what not of other lists and things seem to work ok there.

As always any help would be greatly appreciated

Con Wieland
University of California at Irvine

From cwieland at uci.edu  Thu Apr 18 00:54:28 2013
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 15:54:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving a mailman server
In-Reply-To: <DD2E43AE-CD2D-4145-8444-A790AF2F95E5@uci.edu>
References: <DD2E43AE-CD2D-4145-8444-A790AF2F95E5@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <A4B6E7F6-636F-4ECF-9332-FDC545FD7FA3@uci.edu>

So I think I've solved my own problem. When I run the fix_url script and update the hostname it works as expected. So it should work when I do the final rsync and change the hostname I think all will be well.


On Apr 17, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Con Wieland wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> It has been a while since I've done this but I am moving one of our mailman servers to a new machine and upgrading at the same time from version 2.1.9 to version 2.1.14. I have in the past installed mailman, postfix, and apache and then copied the ~mailman/lists and ~mailman/archives files over and renamed the machine. With a few caveats I have made this work quite successfully before. This time it seems to work but the problem I am having is after I copy the lists they do not appear on the web interface when I goto: http://dev-maillists.nac.uci.edu/mailman/admin
> 
> I only see list created locally on the server. I can goto the admin page and what not of other lists and things seem to work ok there.
> 
> As always any help would be greatly appreciated
> 
> Con Wieland
> University of California at Irvine
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cwieland%40uci.edu


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 18 02:08:08 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 17:08:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving a mailman server
In-Reply-To: <A4B6E7F6-636F-4ECF-9332-FDC545FD7FA3@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304171708080318a4bba786@Notebook-09>

Con Wieland wrote:

>So I think I've solved my own problem. When I run the fix_url script and update the hostname it works as expected. So it should work when I do the final rsync and change the hostname I think all will be well.


I think so too. For more, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/6oA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From norbert.aschendorff at yahoo.de  Sat Apr 20 21:03:30 2013
From: norbert.aschendorff at yahoo.de (Norbert Aschendorff)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 21:03:30 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Don't reply to held messages
Message-ID: <5172E682.9060405@yahoo.de>

Hi, I'm the list administrator of a list which frequently receives spam
messages which then are hold because of an implicit destination. As it
isn't considered as clever to reply to spam mails (because it's a
confirmation of the validity of your address to the spammer), is there
the possibility to disable the automatic reply to a held message (/Your
message to [List] awaits moderator approval/)? I didn't find information
on the web (but maybe I just used the wrong keywords :)

And yes, I know what I'm doing. Legitimate users will not experience
held messages without information where the post is gone (because anyone
may send mail to the list, only /require_explicit_destination/ holds
posts -- and only spammers use implicit destinations)

--Norbert

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 20 23:42:25 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 14:42:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Don't reply to held messages
In-Reply-To: <5172E682.9060405@yahoo.de>
Message-ID: <PC19932013042014422505069fe2d913@Notebook-09>

Norbert Aschendorff wrote:

>Hi, I'm the list administrator of a list which frequently receives spam
>messages which then are hold because of an implicit destination. As it
>isn't considered as clever to reply to spam mails (because it's a
>confirmation of the validity of your address to the spammer), is there
>the possibility to disable the automatic reply to a held message (/Your
>message to [List] awaits moderator approval/)? I didn't find information
>on the web (but maybe I just used the wrong keywords :)


Yes, it is not good to respond to spam, but not so much because it
confirms that your address is in some sense active, but more
importantly because it causes backscatter to the innocent third party
whose address is spoofed in the From: header.

Anyway, the answer to your question is go to the list's web admin
General Options page and set respond_to_post_requests to No.

Also, it's likely this is not set, but check thet Auto-responder ->
autorespond_postings is also No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From norbert.aschendorff at yahoo.de  Sun Apr 21 11:54:10 2013
From: norbert.aschendorff at yahoo.de (Norbert Aschendorff)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 11:54:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Don't reply to held messages
In-Reply-To: <PC19932013042014422505069fe2d913@Notebook-09>
References: <PC19932013042014422505069fe2d913@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <5173B742.1030404@yahoo.de>

Thank you very much! Some time ago I even had known that option, but I
missed it when I searched for it recently (I didn't expected it to be in
"General options" but rather in one of the sub-categories of "Privacy
Options"). And btw: Thanks for this great piece of software to all
developers ;)

--Norbert

From tsubasa.jm at gmail.com  Sun Apr 21 13:11:51 2013
From: tsubasa.jm at gmail.com (Joost Doesburg)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 13:11:51 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sent mail from server to subscribers doesn't arrive
Message-ID: <CAD4hotmKfCwMjinfEeJWO1++2YVk9QFp=8Uz1wuYbqbe3cKvRw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Mailman users,

I have installed Mailman on my CentOS 6 system with Postfix, and configured
it for use with a virtual host. All seems to work OK. I can reach the web
pages, can subscribe through mail, get the confirmation mails and can
confirm, and get the sucbscription mail.

However, when I try to send mail to the list, these messages don't arrive.
I have setup several test accounts, and only the local account (on the
server) seems to work, not the remote accounts which include a GMail
account and an account for another domain not hosted on my server.

The Postfix log (/var/log/maillog) says it sends out the messages but they
never arrive, not even in any spam mailbox. I wonder if there's still
something wrong with my setup which has SMTP servers reject my mails
without bounce:

Apr 21 12:17:27 joost-vps postfix/smtpd[7338]: connect from
mail-wi0-f179.google.com[209.85.212.179]
Apr 21 12:17:27 joost-vps postfix/smtpd[7338]: F251E2004BF: client=
mail-wi0-f179.google.com[209.85.212.179]
Apr 21 12:17:28 joost-vps postfix/cleanup[7342]: F251E2004BF:
message-id=<CAD4hotnuSRasGJP2i7nCx5FiHRLF7RC7=
RDb0++dDw4jd1X+zg at mail.gmail.com>
Apr 21 12:17:28 joost-vps postfix/qmgr[3900]: F251E2004BF: from=<
tsubasa.jm at gmail.com>, size=1752, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Apr 21 12:17:28 joost-vps postfix/smtpd[7338]: disconnect from
mail-wi0-f179.google.com[209.85.212.179]
Apr 21 12:17:28 joost-vps postfix/local[7343]: F251E2004BF:
to=<chat at joost-vps.localdomain>, orig_to=<chat at cardiacs.nl>, relay=local,
delay=0.3, delays=0.06/0.03/0/0.22, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to
command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post chat)
Apr 21 12:17:28 joost-vps postfix/qmgr[3900]: F251E2004BF: removed
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtpd[7338]: connect from localhost[::1]
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtpd[7338]: 9132C2004FA:
client=localhost[::1]
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/cleanup[7342]: 9132C2004FA:
message-id=<CAD4hotnuSRasGJP2i7nCx5FiHRLF7RC7=
RDb0++dDw4jd1X+zg at mail.gmail.com>
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/qmgr[3900]: 9132C2004FA: from=<
chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl>, size=2994, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtpd[7338]: 978592004FD:
client=localhost[::1]
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/cleanup[7342]: 978592004FD:
message-id=<CAD4hotnuSRasGJP2i7nCx5FiHRLF7RC7=
RDb0++dDw4jd1X+zg at mail.gmail.com>
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/qmgr[3900]: 978592004FD: from=<
chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl>, size=2967, nrcpt=2 (queue active)
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtpd[7338]: disconnect from
localhost[::1]
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/local[7343]: 978592004FD:
to=<joost at joost-vps.localdomain>, relay=local, delay=0.04,
delays=0.01/0/0/0.02, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to mailbox)
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtp[7345]: connect to
gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[2a00:1450:400c:c03::1a]:25: Network is
unreachable
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtp[7346]: connect to
mail1.transip.nl[2a01:7c8:eb::eb1]:25:
Network is unreachable
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtp[7345]: 9132C2004FA: to=<
tsubasa.jm at gmail.com>, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[173.194.66.26]:25,
delay=0.17, delays=0.02/0.06/0.04/0.05, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0
OK 1366539449 k15si6403513wjq.192 - gsmtp)
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/qmgr[3900]: 9132C2004FA: removed
Apr 21 12:17:45 joost-vps postfix/smtp[7346]: 978592004FD: to=<
joost at sonogy.nl>, relay=mail1.transip.nl[95.170.72.4]:25, delay=16,
delays=0.01/0.06/0.01/16, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as
32EB7235A84D)
Apr 21 12:17:45 joost-vps postfix/qmgr[3900]: 978592004FD: removed


Also the post and smtp log seem fine:

Apr 21 12:17:29 2013 (7332) post to chat from tsubasa.jm at gmail.com,
size=2764, message-id=<CAD4hotnuSRasGJP2i7nCx5FiHRLF7RC7=
RDb0++dDw4jd1X+zg at mail.gmail.com>, success

Apr 21 12:42:18 2013 (1297) post to chat from tsubasa.jm at gmail.com,
size=2755, message-id=<
CAD4hotkcFwtUBdvD9vPvJakGrK8xO0zijjDXz2dUsb6_TrpQxQ at mail.gmail.com>, success

But the messages just don't arrive.

If it's any help, I can show a header of the mail which does arrive on the
local machine:

>From chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl  Sun Apr 21 12:17:29 2013
Return-Path: <chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl>
X-Original-To: joost at joost-vps.localdomain
Delivered-To: joost at joost-vps.localdomain
X-Original-To: chat at cardiacs.nl
Delivered-To: chat at joost-vps.localdomain
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com;
s=20120113;
        h=mime-version:x-received:date:message-id:subject:from:to
        :content-type; bh=a68tmNwEGIl2gOI1MXyuncY14XCJ8m7zdRy1IVrmDfw=;
        b=Xanm4lU88mDr83tjH5rQBrcAKqgfiPrbtKMKuAICiORYp9PJ0lwRTxNDdylbMmi6eB
        zAyERIHYaH17N682OuIo7kpxUVtmMa95W0w0Ls6d12Xvfc6mFA6QX4oQT45Z8b7Utr1Z
        gTajnxv2IvoW5LaziCX7iC4Ib8cvRT4MzkdzMlxI40Ty7rC1fEfC+kY2JrnY37Cj018y
        Y9fM7QuwxObqMji7G4qner15IuH/tu4n1MEyK+tZLyY+O9bQJi6+0ALZPkEglrohRd4A
        FCdTiR5e3ATjXeMS1AJbzlmDUibNWmu1BZaQXIjg+T6LL+TFyq2bK6eGXdfg6BFzUBrc
        3o2A==
X-Received: by 10.194.142.236 with SMTP id
rz12mr41927779wjb.12.1366539447803;
        Sun, 21 Apr 2013 03:17:27 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:17:27 +0200
From: Joost Doesburg <tsubasa.jm at gmail.com>
To: chat at cardiacs.nl
Subject: [Cardiacs Chat] Test 1
X-BeenThere: chat at cardiacs.nl
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Cardiacs Chat <chat.cardiacs.nl>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://cardiacs.nl/mailman/options/chat>,
        <mailto:chat-request at cardiacs.nl?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://cardiacs.nl/pipermail/chat/>
List-Post: <mailto:chat at cardiacs.nl>
List-Help: <mailto:chat-request at cardiacs.nl?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://cardiacs.nl/mailman/listinfo/chat>,
        <mailto:chat-request at cardiacs.nl?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="===============4509372702274255321=="
Sender: chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl
Errors-To: chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl
Status: RO

And finally here's my personal edits to the config file:

MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['cardiacs.nl']
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'cardiacs.nl'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'cardiacs.nl'

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

[root at joost-vps Mailman]# rpm -qa | grep mailman
mailman-2.1.12-18.el6.x86_64
[root at joost-vps Mailman]# uname -a
Linux joost-vps 2.6.32-358.2.1.el6.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Mar 13 00:26:49 UTC
2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[root at joost-vps Mailman]# cat /etc/redhat-release
CentOS release 6.4 (Final)


I hope anyone can help. Thanks in advance!


Regards,

Joost.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr 21 16:33:19 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 07:33:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sent mail from server to subscribers doesn't
 arrive
In-Reply-To: <CAD4hotmKfCwMjinfEeJWO1++2YVk9QFp=8Uz1wuYbqbe3cKvRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD4hotmKfCwMjinfEeJWO1++2YVk9QFp=8Uz1wuYbqbe3cKvRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5173F8AF.8060603@msapiro.net>

On 4/21/2013 4:11 AM, Joost Doesburg wrote:
> 
> However, when I try to send mail to the list, these messages don't arrive.
> I have setup several test accounts, and only the local account (on the
> server) seems to work, not the remote accounts which include a GMail
> account and an account for another domain not hosted on my server.
> 
> The Postfix log (/var/log/maillog) says it sends out the messages but they
> never arrive, not even in any spam mailbox. I wonder if there's still
> something wrong with my setup which has SMTP servers reject my mails
> without bounce:
> 
[...]
> Apr 21 12:17:28 joost-vps postfix/local[7343]: F251E2004BF:
> to=<chat at joost-vps.localdomain>, orig_to=<chat at cardiacs.nl>, relay=local,
> delay=0.3, delays=0.06/0.03/0/0.22, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to
> command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post chat)


This shows the successful delivery of your post to Mailman.


[...]
> Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/qmgr[3900]: 9132C2004FA: from=<
> chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl>, size=2994, nrcpt=1 (queue active)


9132C2004FA - SMTP transaction from Mailman to Postfix for 1 recipient.


[...]
> Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/qmgr[3900]: 978592004FD: from=<
> chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl>, size=2967, nrcpt=2 (queue active)


978592004FD - SMTP transaction from Mailman to Postfix for 2 recipients.


[...]
> Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/local[7343]: 978592004FD:
> to=<joost at joost-vps.localdomain>, relay=local, delay=0.04,
> delays=0.01/0/0/0.02, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to mailbox)


978592004FD - delivered to <joost at joost-vps.localdomain> mailbox.


> Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtp[7345]: connect to
> gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[2a00:1450:400c:c03::1a]:25: Network is
> unreachable
> Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtp[7346]: connect to
> mail1.transip.nl[2a01:7c8:eb::eb1]:25:
> Network is unreachable
> Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtp[7345]: 9132C2004FA: to=<
> tsubasa.jm at gmail.com>, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[173.194.66.26]:25,
> delay=0.17, delays=0.02/0.06/0.04/0.05, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0
> OK 1366539449 k15si6403513wjq.192 - gsmtp)


9132C2004FA - delivered to gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[173.194.66.26]:25
for <tsubasa.jm at gmail.com> after unsuccessfully trying an IPV6 MX
gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[2a00:1450:400c:c03::1a]:25.

However, this is the poster's address so the message will be discarded
by gmail. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9>.


> Apr 21 12:17:45 joost-vps postfix/smtp[7346]: 978592004FD: to=<
> joost at sonogy.nl>, relay=mail1.transip.nl[95.170.72.4]:25, delay=16,
> delays=0.01/0.06/0.01/16, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as
> 32EB7235A84D)


978592004FD - delivered to mail1.transip.nl[95.170.72.4]:25 for
<joost at sonogy.nl> after unsuccessfully trying an IPV6 MX
mail1.transip.nl[2a01:7c8:eb::eb1]:25

Presumably, this is an unexplained non-receipt. The message was accepted
by the next hop, so it is apparently neither a Mailman nor a Postfix
issue per se.

ISPs tend to be secretive about why they discard mail and there's often
little you can do. <joost at sonogy.nl> can inquire of TransIP BV as to why
they aren't delivering this mail that he wants to receive, but that's
not likely to help much.

There are various things you need to do. You need to ensure your server
has full circle reverse DNS
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward-confirmed_reverse_DNS> for the IP
that is sending the mail. You may have IPV4 vs IPV6 issues here.

Also, can you send mail directly from this postfix to <joost at sonogy.nl>
without involving Mailman?


> Also the post and smtp log seem fine:
> 
> Apr 21 12:17:29 2013 (7332) post to chat from tsubasa.jm at gmail.com,
> size=2764, message-id=<CAD4hotnuSRasGJP2i7nCx5FiHRLF7RC7=
> RDb0++dDw4jd1X+zg at mail.gmail.com>, success
> 
> Apr 21 12:42:18 2013 (1297) post to chat from tsubasa.jm at gmail.com,
> size=2755, message-id=<
> CAD4hotkcFwtUBdvD9vPvJakGrK8xO0zijjDXz2dUsb6_TrpQxQ at mail.gmail.com>, success


I don't see any smtp log entries here.


> But the messages just don't arrive.


Also see <http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From tsubasa.jm at gmail.com  Sun Apr 21 19:35:09 2013
From: tsubasa.jm at gmail.com (Joost Doesburg)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:35:09 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sent mail from server to subscribers doesn't
	arrive
In-Reply-To: <5173F8AF.8060603@msapiro.net>
References: <CAD4hotmKfCwMjinfEeJWO1++2YVk9QFp=8Uz1wuYbqbe3cKvRw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5173F8AF.8060603@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAD4hotmptT-M1VDrrU8P2dsGOkydhDnwkKxMwFE7EDWz7z889Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Mark for some good tips to at least get my configuration a bit
better. I decided to change the CNAME of my host to an A record for full
circle DNS which seems to work (the host is joost-vps.joostdoesburg.eu) and
also change the myhostname in postfix to reflect joost-vps.joostdoesburg.eu.

At least some mails get through to GMail now (sent from another account)
but still not to all accounts. At least I can post a header of the GMail
mail. Is there any checking to be done on that one? Sounds like 'best guess
records' raises red flags for me: maybe it's a sign for other providers to
reject mails?

Delivered-To: tsubasa.jm at gmail.com
Received: by 10.194.25.234 with SMTP id f10csp29440wjg;
        Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:20:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.180.73.134 with SMTP id l6mr57680823wiv.4.1366564836551;
        Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:20:36 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl>
Received: from joost-vps.joostdoesburg.eu (joost-vps.joostdoesburg.eu.
[185.10.49.101])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id i3si8112028wje.211.2013.04.21.10.20.36;
        Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:20:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 185.10.49.101 is neither permitted
nor denied by best guess record for domain of
chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl) client-ip=185.10.49.101;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
       spf=neutral (google.com: 185.10.49.101 is neither permitted nor
denied by best guess record for domain of chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl)
smtp.mail=chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl
Received: from joost-vps.joostdoesburg.eu (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by joost-vps.joostdoesburg.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58B572004F5
	for <tsubasa.jm at gmail.com>; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:20:36 +0200 (CEST)
X-Original-To: chat at cardiacs.nl
Delivered-To: chat at joost-vps.joostdoesburg.eu
Received: by joost-vps.joostdoesburg.eu (Postfix, from userid 500)
	id 396F7200505; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:20:35 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:20:35 +0200
To: chat at cardiacs.nl
User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.4 7/29/08
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <20130421172035.396F7200505 at joost-vps.joostdoesburg.eu>
From: joost at joostdoesburg.eu
Subject: [Cardiacs Chat] check de header jonguh
X-BeenThere: chat at cardiacs.nl
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Cardiacs Chat <chat.cardiacs.nl>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://cardiacs.nl/mailman/options/chat>,
	<mailto:chat-request at cardiacs.nl?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://cardiacs.nl/pipermail/chat/>
List-Post: <mailto:chat at cardiacs.nl>
List-Help: <mailto:chat-request at cardiacs.nl?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://cardiacs.nl/mailman/listinfo/chat>,
	<mailto:chat-request at cardiacs.nl?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl
Errors-To: chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl



2013/4/21 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

>
>
> 9132C2004FA - delivered to gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[173.194.66.26]:25
> for <tsubasa.jm at gmail.com> after unsuccessfully trying an IPV6 MX
> gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[2a00:1450:400c:c03::1a]:25.
>
> However, this is the poster's address so the message will be discarded
> by gmail. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9>.
>
>
That's fine by me, I have seen this behaviour before and I'll live with
that.


> ISPs tend to be secretive about why they discard mail and there's often
> little you can do. <joost at sonogy.nl> can inquire of TransIP BV as to why
> they aren't delivering this mail that he wants to receive, but that's
> not likely to help much.
>

Concerning the text on http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9 I wonder if that's it.
It would be sad if that is the case cause it would basically render the
idea of setting up a maillist on your own domain useless, if providers just
decide to withhold mail and not even put it in spam boxes or anything.


> You may have IPV4 vs IPV6 issues here.
>

I did. Postfix was attempting delivery though a DHCP obtained IPv6 address
which was wrong. I disabled IPv6 on the server itself and also in Postfix
(inet_protocols = ipv4) and that got rid of those messages.


> Also, can you send mail directly from this postfix to <joost at sonogy.nl>
> without involving Mailman?
>

As a matter of fact I can. A typical header looks like this:

Delivered-To: tsubasa.jm at gmail.com
Received: by 10.194.25.234 with SMTP id f10csp29646wjg;
        Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:30:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.194.7.68 with SMTP id h4mr44735341wja.49.1366565436532;
        Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:30:36 -0700 (PDT)
DomainKey-Status: bad format
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of
root at joostdoesburg.eu designates 185.10.49.101 as permitted sender)
client-ip=185.10.49.101;
Received: by 10.217.79.14 with POP3 id s14mf1117363wey.4;
        Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:30:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Gmail-Fetch-Info: joost at sonogy.nl 1 mail1.transip.nl 110 sonogy
Return-Path: <root at joostdoesburg.eu>
Delivered-To: sonogy at sonogy.nl
Received: from webhosting1.transip.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by webhosting1.transip.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77330235A83C
	for <sonogy at sonogy.nl>; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:30:29 +0200 (CEST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at webhosting1.transip.nl
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.38
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.38 required=6 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599,
	TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219] autolearn=no
Received: from webhosting1.transip.nl ([127.0.0.1])
	by webhosting1.transip.nl (webhosting1.transip.nl [127.0.0.1])
(amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id ueHnIB7ywliC for <sonogy at sonogy.nl>;
	Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:30:28 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from joost-vps.joostdoesburg.eu (joost-vps.joostdoesburg.eu
[185.10.49.101])
	by webhosting1.transip.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F864235A833
	for <joost at sonogy.nl>; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:30:14 +0200 (CEST)
Received: by joost-vps.joostdoesburg.eu (Postfix, from userid 0)
	id 0A0D8200501; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:30:14 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:30:13 +0200
To: joost at sonogy.nl
Subject: bla
User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.4 7/29/08
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <20130421173014.0A0D8200501 at joost-vps.joostdoesburg.eu>
From: root at joostdoesburg.eu (root)




> I don't see any smtp log entries here.
>

Sorry, I did a mistpaste there. A typical smtp log entry is:

Apr 21 12:17:29 2013 (7332) <CAD4hotnuSRasGJP2i7nCx5FiHRLF7RC7=
RDb0++dDw4jd1X+zg at mail.gmail.com> smtp to chat for 3 recips, completed in
0.059 seconds


Thanks for any additional info you're able to provide me.


Regards,

Joost.

From krao at teslamotors.com  Sun Apr 21 17:22:03 2013
From: krao at teslamotors.com (Kamlesh Rao)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 15:22:03 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sent mail from server to subscribers doesn't
 arrive
In-Reply-To: <CAD4hotmKfCwMjinfEeJWO1++2YVk9QFp=8Uz1wuYbqbe3cKvRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD4hotmKfCwMjinfEeJWO1++2YVk9QFp=8Uz1wuYbqbe3cKvRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <gak79ftbeohossmurpl4j64j.1366557492364@email.android.com>

Check the postfix config and make sure you have the line
Inet_interfaces

Commented and restart postfix

Joost Doesburg <tsubasa.jm at gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mailman users,

I have installed Mailman on my CentOS 6 system with Postfix, and configured
it for use with a virtual host. All seems to work OK. I can reach the web
pages, can subscribe through mail, get the confirmation mails and can
confirm, and get the sucbscription mail.

However, when I try to send mail to the list, these messages don't arrive.
I have setup several test accounts, and only the local account (on the
server) seems to work, not the remote accounts which include a GMail
account and an account for another domain not hosted on my server.

The Postfix log (/var/log/maillog) says it sends out the messages but they
never arrive, not even in any spam mailbox. I wonder if there's still
something wrong with my setup which has SMTP servers reject my mails
without bounce:

Apr 21 12:17:27 joost-vps postfix/smtpd[7338]: connect from
mail-wi0-f179.google.com[209.85.212.179]
Apr 21 12:17:27 joost-vps postfix/smtpd[7338]: F251E2004BF: client=
mail-wi0-f179.google.com[209.85.212.179]
Apr 21 12:17:28 joost-vps postfix/cleanup[7342]: F251E2004BF:
message-id=<CAD4hotnuSRasGJP2i7nCx5FiHRLF7RC7=
RDb0++dDw4jd1X+zg at mail.gmail.com>
Apr 21 12:17:28 joost-vps postfix/qmgr[3900]: F251E2004BF: from=<
tsubasa.jm at gmail.com>, size=1752, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Apr 21 12:17:28 joost-vps postfix/smtpd[7338]: disconnect from
mail-wi0-f179.google.com[209.85.212.179]
Apr 21 12:17:28 joost-vps postfix/local[7343]: F251E2004BF:
to=<chat at joost-vps.localdomain>, orig_to=<chat at cardiacs.nl>, relay=local,
delay=0.3, delays=0.06/0.03/0/0.22, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to
command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post chat)
Apr 21 12:17:28 joost-vps postfix/qmgr[3900]: F251E2004BF: removed
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtpd[7338]: connect from localhost[::1]
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtpd[7338]: 9132C2004FA:
client=localhost[::1]
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/cleanup[7342]: 9132C2004FA:
message-id=<CAD4hotnuSRasGJP2i7nCx5FiHRLF7RC7=
RDb0++dDw4jd1X+zg at mail.gmail.com>
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/qmgr[3900]: 9132C2004FA: from=<
chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl>, size=2994, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtpd[7338]: 978592004FD:
client=localhost[::1]
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/cleanup[7342]: 978592004FD:
message-id=<CAD4hotnuSRasGJP2i7nCx5FiHRLF7RC7=
RDb0++dDw4jd1X+zg at mail.gmail.com>
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/qmgr[3900]: 978592004FD: from=<
chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl>, size=2967, nrcpt=2 (queue active)
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtpd[7338]: disconnect from
localhost[::1]
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/local[7343]: 978592004FD:
to=<joost at joost-vps.localdomain>, relay=local, delay=0.04,
delays=0.01/0/0/0.02, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to mailbox)
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtp[7345]: connect to
gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[2a00:1450:400c:c03::1a]:25: Network is
unreachable
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtp[7346]: connect to
mail1.transip.nl[2a01:7c8:eb::eb1]:25:
Network is unreachable
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/smtp[7345]: 9132C2004FA: to=<
tsubasa.jm at gmail.com>, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[173.194.66.26]:25,
delay=0.17, delays=0.02/0.06/0.04/0.05, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0
OK 1366539449 k15si6403513wjq.192 - gsmtp)
Apr 21 12:17:29 joost-vps postfix/qmgr[3900]: 9132C2004FA: removed
Apr 21 12:17:45 joost-vps postfix/smtp[7346]: 978592004FD: to=<
joost at sonogy.nl>, relay=mail1.transip.nl[95.170.72.4]:25, delay=16,
delays=0.01/0.06/0.01/16, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as
32EB7235A84D)
Apr 21 12:17:45 joost-vps postfix/qmgr[3900]: 978592004FD: removed


Also the post and smtp log seem fine:

Apr 21 12:17:29 2013 (7332) post to chat from tsubasa.jm at gmail.com,
size=2764, message-id=<CAD4hotnuSRasGJP2i7nCx5FiHRLF7RC7=
RDb0++dDw4jd1X+zg at mail.gmail.com>, success

Apr 21 12:42:18 2013 (1297) post to chat from tsubasa.jm at gmail.com,
size=2755, message-id=<
CAD4hotkcFwtUBdvD9vPvJakGrK8xO0zijjDXz2dUsb6_TrpQxQ at mail.gmail.com>, success

But the messages just don't arrive.

If it's any help, I can show a header of the mail which does arrive on the
local machine:

>From chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl  Sun Apr 21 12:17:29 2013
Return-Path: <chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl>
X-Original-To: joost at joost-vps.localdomain
Delivered-To: joost at joost-vps.localdomain
X-Original-To: chat at cardiacs.nl
Delivered-To: chat at joost-vps.localdomain
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com;
s=20120113;
        h=mime-version:x-received:date:message-id:subject:from:to
        :content-type; bh=a68tmNwEGIl2gOI1MXyuncY14XCJ8m7zdRy1IVrmDfw=;
        b=Xanm4lU88mDr83tjH5rQBrcAKqgfiPrbtKMKuAICiORYp9PJ0lwRTxNDdylbMmi6eB
        zAyERIHYaH17N682OuIo7kpxUVtmMa95W0w0Ls6d12Xvfc6mFA6QX4oQT45Z8b7Utr1Z
        gTajnxv2IvoW5LaziCX7iC4Ib8cvRT4MzkdzMlxI40Ty7rC1fEfC+kY2JrnY37Cj018y
        Y9fM7QuwxObqMji7G4qner15IuH/tu4n1MEyK+tZLyY+O9bQJi6+0ALZPkEglrohRd4A
        FCdTiR5e3ATjXeMS1AJbzlmDUibNWmu1BZaQXIjg+T6LL+TFyq2bK6eGXdfg6BFzUBrc
        3o2A==
X-Received: by 10.194.142.236 with SMTP id
rz12mr41927779wjb.12.1366539447803;
        Sun, 21 Apr 2013 03:17:27 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:17:27 +0200
From: Joost Doesburg <tsubasa.jm at gmail.com>
To: chat at cardiacs.nl
Subject: [Cardiacs Chat] Test 1
X-BeenThere: chat at cardiacs.nl
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Cardiacs Chat <chat.cardiacs.nl>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://cardiacs.nl/mailman/options/chat>,
        <mailto:chat-request at cardiacs.nl?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://cardiacs.nl/pipermail/chat/>
List-Post: <mailto:chat at cardiacs.nl>
List-Help: <mailto:chat-request at cardiacs.nl?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://cardiacs.nl/mailman/listinfo/chat>,
        <mailto:chat-request at cardiacs.nl?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="===============4509372702274255321=="
Sender: chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl
Errors-To: chat-bounces at cardiacs.nl
Status: RO

And finally here's my personal edits to the config file:

MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['cardiacs.nl']
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'cardiacs.nl'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'cardiacs.nl'

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

[root at joost-vps Mailman]# rpm -qa | grep mailman
mailman-2.1.12-18.el6.x86_64
[root at joost-vps Mailman]# uname -a
Linux joost-vps 2.6.32-358.2.1.el6.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Mar 13 00:26:49 UTC
2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[root at joost-vps Mailman]# cat /etc/redhat-release
CentOS release 6.4 (Final)


I hope anyone can help. Thanks in advance!


Regards,

Joost.
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/krao%40teslamotors.com

From tsubasa.jm at gmail.com  Mon Apr 22 10:36:11 2013
From: tsubasa.jm at gmail.com (Joost Doesburg)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:36:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sent mail from server to subscribers doesn't
	arrive
In-Reply-To: <CAD4hotmptT-M1VDrrU8P2dsGOkydhDnwkKxMwFE7EDWz7z889Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD4hotmKfCwMjinfEeJWO1++2YVk9QFp=8Uz1wuYbqbe3cKvRw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5173F8AF.8060603@msapiro.net>
	<CAD4hotmptT-M1VDrrU8P2dsGOkydhDnwkKxMwFE7EDWz7z889Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD4hotnRb3PN9dYWaMOigb+WkrtGQj8iYrAEevxR+Rqs6GZLqA@mail.gmail.com>

In the end I managed to fix all by setting proper SPF records in my DNS
records. Now all works as I want it to.

Thanks for helping me along. :)

Regards,

Joost.

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Wed Apr 24 08:56:05 2013
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 08:56:05 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sync_members and "no message" status
Message-ID: <20130424065605.GE20988@charite.de>

I'm using sync_members to keep our "all students" mailinglist up to
date. Now, if a student's mailbox is over quota, his/her membership
gets suspended due to bounces.

And even if the student empties the mailbox, the address won't be
enabled, since sync_members never resets the bounce status?

Since I know my student's addresses to be valid, I should probably
disable "automatic bounce processing", right?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt                   Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de        Campus Benjamin Franklin
http://www.charite.de              Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin
Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 24 17:24:43 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 08:24:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sync_members and "no message" status
In-Reply-To: <20130424065605.GE20988@charite.de>
References: <20130424065605.GE20988@charite.de>
Message-ID: <5177F93B.1090100@msapiro.net>

On 4/23/2013 11:56 PM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> 
> And even if the student empties the mailbox, the address won't be
> enabled, since sync_members never resets the bounce status?
> 
> Since I know my student's addresses to be valid, I should probably
> disable "automatic bounce processing", right?


It depends on how much responsibility you want to place on the student.
If you are sure all addresses are valid, i.e., that the source of your
sync_members list has only valid addresses, it would probably be fine to
turn off bounce processing.

On the other hand, if the student's delivery is disabled by bounce due
to a full mailbox and the mailbox is subsequently (partially) emptied,
the student should receive the next bounce_you_are_disabled warning(s)
and can re-enable her own delivery, and if she doesn't, she will
eventually be removed at which point sync_members will put her back with
delivery enabled.

You could adjust bounce processing parameters to make these things
happen faster. I.e., setting bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings to 0 will
unsubscribe the student on the first bounce and then sync_members will
put her back on the next run.

Or setting bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval to 1 will send
daily warnings so the student will receive one within 24 hours of
clearing the mailbox.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Wed Apr 24 19:18:27 2013
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 19:18:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sync_members and "no message" status
In-Reply-To: <5177F93B.1090100@msapiro.net>
References: <20130424065605.GE20988@charite.de> <5177F93B.1090100@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20130424171827.GB539@charite.de>

* Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> On 4/23/2013 11:56 PM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> > 
> > And even if the student empties the mailbox, the address won't be
> > enabled, since sync_members never resets the bounce status?
> > 
> > Since I know my student's addresses to be valid, I should probably
> > disable "automatic bounce processing", right?
> 
> 
> It depends on how much responsibility you want to place on the student.
> If you are sure all addresses are valid, i.e., that the source of your
> sync_members list has only valid addresses, it would probably be fine to
> turn off bounce processing.

That is the case.
 
> On the other hand, if the student's delivery is disabled by bounce due
> to a full mailbox and the mailbox is subsequently (partially) emptied,
> the student should receive the next bounce_you_are_disabled warning(s)
> and can re-enable her own delivery, and if she doesn't, she will
> eventually be removed at which point sync_members will put her back with
> delivery enabled.

OK. But on the other hand this would also work with bounces disabled
and the student wouldn't even have to act.

> You could adjust bounce processing parameters to make these things
> happen faster. I.e., setting bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings to 0 will
> unsubscribe the student on the first bounce and then sync_members will
> put her back on the next run.

Good point :)

> Or setting bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval to 1 will send
> daily warnings so the student will receive one within 24 hours of
> clearing the mailbox.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt                   Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de        Campus Benjamin Franklin
http://www.charite.de              Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin
Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155

From adamsca at gmail.com  Thu Apr 25 00:42:14 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 15:42:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin approval messages not being sent
In-Reply-To: <PC19932013040114403208909e4e559a@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAA13W+8XbpQjHH=OcS0gbdHu9_ni_q63WJsjQR6kGv60bW=TzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC19932013040114403208909e4e559a@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAA13W+_9YDODnseHCEiEzUD3FSE=fjd_Ne=gj35zmoBuAKC+cg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, Mark. It has been awhile, as I submitted a ticket to the
provider of mail, but they have not been responding. I do thank you for the
suggestion and am following up a second time with them and will post when I
have a resolution.


On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 2:40 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Christopher Adams wrote:
>
> >I can send mail outside of Mailman to the listname-owner address and it
> >delivers correcty regardless of whether the list owners are inside the
> >local subnet. The problem only seems to occur when sending through the
> >Mailman server and Postfix.
>
>
> When you send mail originating outside Mailman to the listname-owner
> address it is ultimately delivered to Postfix from Mailman for the
> owner/moderator recipients in exactly the same way as a Mailman
> generated notice.
>
> There are a few differences in the headers of the message ultimately
> sent to the owner/moderator recipients and of course, the bodies are
> different (but you could test manually sending a copy of an actual
> notice).
>
> The major difference is the From: header which in the cast of the
> message you send has hour address and in the case of the notice has
> the listname-owner address. The notice also has headers like
>
> Precedence: bulk
> X-BeenThere: listname at example.com
> X-Mailman-Version: ...
> List-Id: ...
> X-List-Administrivia: yes
>
> that probably aren't in the manually generated message.
>
> Perhaps the issue is that there is spam filtering in the local network
> that discards Precedence: bulk messages destined for local recipients.
>
>
> >It is also possible that the central server that mail is routed through is
> >not looking kindly on the admin notifications, so I will look in to that
> as
> >well as problems with Postfix.
>
>
> Yes, particularly the Precedence: header.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From kenwood0622 at dogomania.com  Wed Apr 24 19:24:16 2013
From: kenwood0622 at dogomania.com (DSH)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 10:24:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recovering EMail Addresses from Majordomo's
	subscribers.D File
Message-ID: <20130424102416.24053085@m0005296.ppops.net>

Recently I completely upgraded my Linux server starting with a freshly formatted root partition after backing up all the system directories to another partition.  I then installed the latest versions of my application software drawing on the old configuration files I had tucked away where appropriate.  All went fine until majordomo.  There were so many problems with that not working with the newer version of Perl etc. that I gave up and installed Mailman.  That went smoothly but I am now at a point where I would like to import the email addresses from two majordomo lists and I have hit another roadblock.    Mailman wants one email address per line to import and majordomo?s _subscribers.D file for each list is not formatted that way.    

Is there some means to import the email addresses directly from majordomo?s subscribers.D file or alternatively, a way of parsing the _subscribers.D file to a file that bin/add_members can use?   Exporting from majordomo is not an option at this point.

I do not care if the subscriber?s real name doesn?t come with the email address and I do not care about importing past postings.   All I really need are the subscriber?s email addresses.











_____________________________________________________________
http://mail.dogomania.com - Free email for dog enthusiasts.

From hrd at email.it  Wed Apr 24 16:02:46 2013
From: hrd at email.it (cesco)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 16:02:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site list is missing: mailman
Message-ID: <5177E606.4050805@email.it>

Hi

on a RHEL6.4 with mailman-2.1.12-18 on amd64, I'm trying to run mailman 
with all his /var/lib/mailman stuff (archives, data, lists, spam)stored 
on a lustre 2.1.5 filesystem.

when I try to start mailman (either '/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl 
start' or '/etc/init.d/mailman start') it says:

Site list is missing: mailman

and in /var/log/mailman/error

Apr 24 15:53:17 2013 (30798) IOError reading list extension: [Errno 13] 
Permission denied: '/irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/extend.py'
Apr 24 15:53:17 2013 mailmanctl(30798): Site list is missing: mailman
Apr 24 15:53:17 2013 (30798) Site list is missing: mailman

VAR_PREFIX is set to '/irafs0/mailman' in both Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py 
for https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/925502

ls -ls /irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck
4 -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 3763 Apr 23 12:00 
/irafs0/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck

I'm suspecting that can be some lock problem. I tried to mount the 
lustre volume with nolock, localflock and flock, but nothing changes.

any hints?
thank

francesco

From wjustet at gmail.com  Thu Apr 25 16:11:46 2013
From: wjustet at gmail.com (Walter Justet)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 11:11:46 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems updating virtual-mailman
Message-ID: <CAL90nXGya4La7yc+3yzD4-P5n-GqFjRk0bgJpruJ5-9emmtraw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I'm have a problem with the file generation. I generated a bunch of
mailman lists in the past and they are all working fine so I guess all the
postfix configuration is ok.
But now when I add a new list, the aliases and aliases.db files get
updated, but the virtual-mailman and virtual-mailman.db files are generated
with very old information that make the new lists and even some older that
have been working start failing with the unknown user (fortunately I have a
backup!)

I have in my mm_cfg.py
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['my.domain.com']

and postfix with:
virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-alias-maps.cf,
hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman

The problem is just with the virtual-mailman file generation, i don't know
why or how it get that old list information when generates the file.

-- 
Saludos
Walter

From adamsca at gmail.com  Thu Apr 25 17:34:05 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 08:34:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin approval messages not being sent
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+_9YDODnseHCEiEzUD3FSE=fjd_Ne=gj35zmoBuAKC+cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA13W+8XbpQjHH=OcS0gbdHu9_ni_q63WJsjQR6kGv60bW=TzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC19932013040114403208909e4e559a@MSAPIRO>
	<CAA13W+_9YDODnseHCEiEzUD3FSE=fjd_Ne=gj35zmoBuAKC+cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA13W+-3AygOEiFq0HrHWcjrumH08Fu_nqrzDNAptJb2SFka0g@mail.gmail.com>

Apparently, the central mail server does not filter spam by examining
headers. It uses Fortiguard to look for identified spam and then flag IPs
that send an inordinate amount of "spam". Our system handles over 600 lists
and 250,000 subscribers, so there is a lot of opportunities for spam to get
through. The lists don't send spam, but the owner addresses are open for
sending (weakness of Mailman) and for whatever reason, legitimate mail is
being flagged with a hash by Fortiguard.

All the Fortiguard problems aside, are there any suggested ways to harden
Postfix for use withe Mailman at the volume we are using it. Maybe this is
a question for the Postfix list. I have already implemented many of the
configuration ideas to cut down on spam, though have not implemented an
actual spam application like SpamAssassin.

Many thanks,


On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Christopher Adams <adamsca at gmail.com>wrote:

> Thank you, Mark. It has been awhile, as I submitted a ticket to the
> provider of mail, but they have not been responding. I do thank you for the
> suggestion and am following up a second time with them and will post when I
> have a resolution.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 2:40 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>> Christopher Adams wrote:
>>
>> >I can send mail outside of Mailman to the listname-owner address and it
>> >delivers correcty regardless of whether the list owners are inside the
>> >local subnet. The problem only seems to occur when sending through the
>> >Mailman server and Postfix.
>>
>>
>> When you send mail originating outside Mailman to the listname-owner
>> address it is ultimately delivered to Postfix from Mailman for the
>> owner/moderator recipients in exactly the same way as a Mailman
>> generated notice.
>>
>> There are a few differences in the headers of the message ultimately
>> sent to the owner/moderator recipients and of course, the bodies are
>> different (but you could test manually sending a copy of an actual
>> notice).
>>
>> The major difference is the From: header which in the cast of the
>> message you send has hour address and in the case of the notice has
>> the listname-owner address. The notice also has headers like
>>
>> Precedence: bulk
>> X-BeenThere: listname at example.com
>> X-Mailman-Version: ...
>> List-Id: ...
>> X-List-Administrivia: yes
>>
>> that probably aren't in the manually generated message.
>>
>> Perhaps the issue is that there is spam filtering in the local network
>> that discards Precedence: bulk messages destined for local recipients.
>>
>>
>> >It is also possible that the central server that mail is routed through
>> is
>> >not looking kindly on the admin notifications, so I will look in to that
>> as
>> >well as problems with Postfix.
>>
>>
>> Yes, particularly the Precedence: header.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Christopher Adams
> adamsca at gmail.com
>



-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 25 18:44:03 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 09:44:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site list is missing: mailman
In-Reply-To: <5177E606.4050805@email.it>
References: <5177E606.4050805@email.it>
Message-ID: <51795D53.5040103@msapiro.net>

On 4/24/2013 7:02 AM, cesco wrote:
> 
> when I try to start mailman (either '/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl
> start' or '/etc/init.d/mailman start') it says:
> 
> Site list is missing: mailman


See Section 8 in the installation manual at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/site-list.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 25 18:50:09 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 09:50:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recovering EMail Addresses from Majordomo's
 subscribers.D File
In-Reply-To: <20130424102416.24053085@m0005296.ppops.net>
References: <20130424102416.24053085@m0005296.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <51795EC1.1050007@msapiro.net>

On 4/24/2013 10:24 AM, DSH wrote:
> 
> Is there some means to import the email addresses directly from
> majordomo?s subscribers.D file or alternatively, a way of parsing
> the _subscribers.D file to a file that bin/add_members can use?
> Exporting from majordomo is not an option at this point.


There are two majordomo to mailman conversion scripts in the contrib
directory at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files/head:/contrib/>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 25 18:57:06 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 09:57:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems updating virtual-mailman
In-Reply-To: <CAL90nXGya4La7yc+3yzD4-P5n-GqFjRk0bgJpruJ5-9emmtraw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013042509570606131aa34a6b@Notebook-09>

Walter Justet wrote:
>
>I have in my mm_cfg.py
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['my.domain.com']


Which means Mailman will generate virtual_mailman entries for those and
only those lists whose host_name attribute (shown near the bottom of
the list admin General Options page) matches 'my.domain.com'

If you have a bunch of lists with an incorrect host_name, search the
FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3> for fix_url.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From wjustet at gmail.com  Thu Apr 25 21:34:22 2013
From: wjustet at gmail.com (Walter Justet)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 16:34:22 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems updating virtual-mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC19932013042509570606131aa34a6b@Notebook-09>
References: <CAL90nXGya4La7yc+3yzD4-P5n-GqFjRk0bgJpruJ5-9emmtraw@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC19932013042509570606131aa34a6b@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <CAL90nXHsukcYAbvS5WOhCM4MW8W=GGMGXpL-MO4bRCBs1TC_zg@mail.gmail.com>

Great Mark!! That solved my problem!

Thanks!


On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Walter Justet wrote:
> >
> >I have in my mm_cfg.py
> >MTA = 'Postfix'
> >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['my.domain.com']
>
>
> Which means Mailman will generate virtual_mailman entries for those and
> only those lists whose host_name attribute (shown near the bottom of
> the list admin General Options page) matches 'my.domain.com'
>
> If you have a bunch of lists with an incorrect host_name, search the
> FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3> for fix_url.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Saludos
Walter

From javad at irannopendar.com  Sat Apr 27 10:28:56 2013
From: javad at irannopendar.com (Javad Hoseini-Nopendar)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 12:58:56 +0430
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting users list and inviting new users
Message-ID: <001701ce4321$44330860$0201a8c0@home3c459be30f>

Hi everybody
I already asked this question too, but did not receive any reply. Is there any way I can export the list of members of my mailing list into a text file or Excel file or a kind of editable file?

I have another question too. Is there a way I can invite new members to the mailing list, just by sending an email to a particular address? For example my mailing list address is IranRAVI at IranRAVI.com and I want to invite User1 at yahoo.com to this group. I send an email to IranRavi-Invite at IranRAVI.com and include user1 at yahoo.com in subject line and this user is invited to the mailing list. Such thing is possible?


Best Regards 

From zaixer at gmail.com  Sat Apr 27 12:01:28 2013
From: zaixer at gmail.com (Muhammad Ali)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 12:01:28 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to mange bounce
Message-ID: <CAJZoX4U6KwqWVoMXi35PxT3ASHprzuYFhrfbqLBCTjn5R+z2Pw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am just a newbie and hope that you can help me with the following
problem. I created mailman mailing list from within Cpanel for my hosted
server. an email address gets bounced and I do not know how to remove this
bounce. I searched the web but could find any instructions about how to
unbounce !

Thanks in advance

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr 28 18:49:33 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 09:49:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting users list and inviting new users
In-Reply-To: <001701ce4321$44330860$0201a8c0@home3c459be30f>
Message-ID: <PC1993201304280949330801b2c51082@Notebook-09>

Javad Hoseini-Nopendar wrote:

>I already asked this question too, but did not receive any reply. Is there any way I can export the list of members of my mailing list into a text file or Excel file or a kind of editable file?


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9>.


>I have another question too. Is there a way I can invite new members to the mailing list, just by sending an email to a particular address? For example my mailing list address is IranRAVI at IranRAVI.com and I want to invite User1 at yahoo.com to this group. I send an email to IranRavi-Invite at IranRAVI.com and include user1 at yahoo.com in subject line and this user is invited to the mailing list. Such thing is possible?


It is possible but only by modifying Mailman itself and the MTA to add
a command script to process the invitation requests and to add the
'invite' command to the mail wrapper's list of valid commands and to
tell the MTA how to deliver the '-invite' address to Mailman.

Alternatively, you could modify the existing Mailman/cmd_subscribe.py
and/or cmd_join.py scripts to send invitations. If you modify only
cmd_subscribe.py, then mail to either *-subscribe or *-join will send
an invitation because join merely imports the process from subscribe,
but you could make separate scripts, one of which would subscribe and
the other invite.

Yet another possibility is to just make sure the list's
subscribe_policy is Confirm and modify the verify.txt template per
<http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9> so it looks more like an invitation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr 28 19:23:13 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 10:23:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to mange bounce
In-Reply-To: <CAJZoX4U6KwqWVoMXi35PxT3ASHprzuYFhrfbqLBCTjn5R+z2Pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC199320130428102313086016b730a9@Notebook-09>

Muhammad Ali wrote:
>
>I am just a newbie and hope that you can help me with the following
>problem. I created mailman mailing list from within Cpanel for my hosted
>server. an email address gets bounced and I do not know how to remove this
>bounce. I searched the web but could find any instructions about how to
>unbounce !

First of all if you go to the list's Mailman web admin interface Bounce
processing page and set bounce_processing to Yes and perhaps change
some of the other settings if your list ia particularly low traffic or
unusual in other ways, Mailman will handle bounces appropriately and
will ignore occasional/spurious bounces because they will become stale.

If the user's delivery has been disabled by bounce and you think this
is wrong, go to the list's Membership Management... ->Membership List 
page(s) and uncheck the user's "nomail [reason]" box and Submit Your
Changes.

If this doesn't answer your question, please be more specific so we can
understand exactly what you're asking.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From javad at irannopendar.com  Sun Apr 28 22:44:27 2013
From: javad at irannopendar.com (Javad Hoseini-Nopendar)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 01:14:27 +0430
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Mail
Message-ID: <000b01ce4451$2f559260$0201a8c0@home3c459be30f>

Hi there
I have a few questions about sending very large masses of email messages. I should remind that I don't want to do that for spamming purpose, but only because a friend is asking me about that over and over:Assume a mailing list with 200,000 members. For simplification purpose, Suppose all the members are from Gmail accounts. Now I send an email to this mailing list and the size of email is 1KB. I have 3 questions now:
1- This email will consume 1Kb of my website's monthly bandwidth or 200,000KB (200GB)? I mean my website's server sends the emails one by one or for example delivers all of them to google and google takes over the rest of work?

2- If that email consumes 200GB of my monthly bandwidth, while my monthly bandwidth limit is only 8GB, sending that one email will explode and break down my whole website or it will just give me an error that this number is higher than allowed bandwidth? 

3- Assume all the members have been subscribed by the list owner, not by their own, but at the footer of all the emails it is explained to them how they can unsubscribe from the list. If I send an email to 200,000 Gmail recepients at a time, Gmail won't send my website or my IP to the black list of Spammers? 

Best Regards 

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr 28 23:46:17 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 14:46:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Mail
In-Reply-To: <000b01ce4451$2f559260$0201a8c0@home3c459be30f>
References: <000b01ce4451$2f559260$0201a8c0@home3c459be30f>
Message-ID: <517D98A9.2030307@msapiro.net>

On 4/28/2013 1:44 PM, Javad Hoseini-Nopendar wrote:
> Hi there I have a few questions about sending very large masses of
> email messages. I should remind that I don't want to do that for
> spamming purpose, but only because a friend is asking me about that
> over and over:Assume a mailing list with 200,000 members. For
> simplification purpose, Suppose all the members are from Gmail
> accounts. Now I send an email to this mailing list and the size of
> email is 1KB. I have 3 questions now: 1- This email will consume 1Kb
> of my website's monthly bandwidth or 200,000KB (200GB)? I mean my
> website's server sends the emails one by one or for example delivers
> all of them to google and google takes over the rest of work?


It depends.  If you have Mailman's VERP or personalization enabled,
Mailman will send each message to the local outgoing MTA as a 1K message
with 1 recipient; 200,000 messages all together. These in turn will be
relayed to Google's mail exchange server by the outgoing MTA in the same
way.

If not and you have default settings, Mailman will send 'chunks'
consisting of 1 message with 500 recipients; 400 messages all together
with 500 recipients each to the local outgoing MTA. This is controlled
by the mm_cfg.py setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS however this cannot be
arbitrarily increased. In fact, the default 500 is too big as section
4.5.3.1.8 of RFC 5321 allows MTAs to refuse to accept more than 100
recipients in one transaction. How the outgoing MTA relays these
messages to Google's MX is up to the MTA.


> 2- If that email consumes 200GB of my monthly bandwidth, while my
> monthly bandwidth limit is only 8GB, sending that one email will
> explode and break down my whole website or it will just give me an
> error that this number is higher than allowed bandwidth?


This is a question for your hosting provider. We can't answer it.


> 3- Assume all the members have been subscribed by the list owner, not
> by their own, but at the footer of all the emails it is explained to
> them how they can unsubscribe from the list. If I send an email to
> 200,000 Gmail recepients at a time, Gmail won't send my website or my
> IP to the black list of Spammers?


This is a question for Google. We can't answer it except to say that
adding a person to a list without confirmation and relying on an
unsubscribe footer is not good practice. Good practice is to require
confirmation from every user before adding them to any list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Apr 29 04:33:31 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:33:31 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Mail
In-Reply-To: <517D98A9.2030307@msapiro.net>
References: <000b01ce4451$2f559260$0201a8c0@home3c459be30f>
	<517D98A9.2030307@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <878v42vzes.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

I have nothing to add to Mark's answer to question 1.

 > > 2- If that email consumes 200GB of my monthly bandwidth, while my
 > > monthly bandwidth limit is only 8GB, sending that one email will
 > > explode and break down my whole website or it will just give me an
 > > error that this number is higher than allowed bandwidth?
 > 
 > This is a question for your hosting provider. We can't answer it.

Strictly speaking, Mark is correct.  Being Mark means being always
correct, so he can't speculate. :-)  I can, however.

Experience reported on the Mailman lists over the past decade shows
that there are two common local limits.  One is count of recipients.
If a single submission exceeds that, the local MTA may refuse to send
that message, and you get the error, but don't use any bandwidth.  No
subscribers get the post.  Not good, but usually not a disaster (for
the subscribers).

The second common experience is that the MTA limits either count or
bandwidth, and stops sending.  Then some subscribers get mail and
others don't.  This is very bad in most cases.  However, you get a new
allocation next month.

The third case is that the MTA limits *and queues the remainder*.  You
are now well and truly hosed.  You need to get your host to delete the
post from the MTA queue, or you won't get a usable allocation for a
while....  (Note that AFAIK this case is usually applied by services
that have a daily rather than a monthly quota.)

 > > 3- Assume all the members have been subscribed by the list owner, not
 > > by their own, but at the footer of all the emails it is explained to
 > > them how they can unsubscribe from the list. If I send an email to
 > > 200,000 Gmail recepients at a time, Gmail won't send my website or my
 > > IP to the black list of Spammers?
 > 
 > This is a question for Google.

What Mark said.  But I would add "and Yahoo and AOL and ..." because
every one is different.

I can also tell you that in the three cases just mentioned, it doesn't
matter what your footer says.  All three have terms of service that
allow them to decide what is spam based on any driteria they like.
AFAIK, having an unsubscribe link in the footer isn't one of them.[1]
Bulk mailers are strongly encouraged to register with them, and
basically swear an oath not to spam.[2] All of the registration
procedures are different, as are the procedures for getting out of the
doghouse once you land there (and anybody mailing to 10,000 people or
more on one service does sooner or later).

Footnotes: 
[1]  In some jurisdictions that link will keep you out of jail, though.

[2]  I've never bothered, but on my lists I have the luxury of being
able to ignore the big freemail systems: my subscribers invariably
have academic or personal addresses.


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Mon Apr 29 12:44:27 2013
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:44:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Mail
In-Reply-To: <878v42vzes.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <000b01ce4451$2f559260$0201a8c0@home3c459be30f>
	<517D98A9.2030307@msapiro.net>
	<878v42vzes.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20130429104427.GF3728@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 11:33:31AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> I can also tell you that in the three cases just mentioned, it doesn't
> matter what your footer says.  All three have terms of service that
> allow them to decide what is spam based on any driteria they like.
> AFAIK, having an unsubscribe link in the footer isn't one of them.[1]
> Bulk mailers are strongly encouraged to register with them, and
> basically swear an oath not to spam.[2] 

Or, indeed, pay them?

> All of the registration
> procedures are different,

They used to be quite hidden, but I seem to be able to find them quite
easily, when I need to, these days.

> as are the procedures for getting out of the
> doghouse once you land there (and anybody mailing to 10,000 people or
> more on one service does sooner or later).

+1. Even 5000 seems to be the threshold these days, for unknown
netblocks.


-- 
"It has never been the rule in this country ? I hope it never will be 
 ? that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject 
 of prosecution."
    -- Hartley Shawcross, then (1951) Attorney-General

From kenwood0622 at dogomania.com  Mon Apr 29 16:29:06 2013
From: kenwood0622 at dogomania.com (DSH)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 07:29:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recovering EMail Addresses from
 Majordomo'ssubscribers.D File
Message-ID: <20130429072906.24008F2C@resin04.mta.everyone.net>

--- mark at msapiro.net wrote:

From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
To: kenwood0622 at dogomania.com
CC: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Recovering EMail Addresses from Majordomo's 
subscribers.D File
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 09:50:09 -0700

> On 4/24/2013 10:24 AM, DSH wrote:
>>
>> Is there some means to import the email addresses directly from
>> majordomo?s subscribers.D file or alternatively, a way of parsing
>> the _subscribers.D file to a file that bin/add_members can use?
>> Exporting from majordomo is not an option at this point.
>
>
> There are two majordomo to mailman conversion scripts in the contrib
> directory at
> 
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files/head:/contrib/>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------


Thank you.  I would have bet money the next post was going to say tough 
luck and have fun entering all the names manually so your post was a 
very pleasant surprise.

Unfortunately I could not get either script to work for me so perhaps 
that will come in the next post.  

When looking at the first script, (import_majordomo_into_mailman.pl) the 
fist thing I noticed was the assumption that ?Majordomo has all of its 
list configurations in a single, local directory.?   My directory 
structure is as shown below.

/usr/local/majordomo/lists/host.domain.tld/listname  

with the configuration files inside the listname directory and there is 
a listname directory for each list.  The files in each listname 
directory are as follows

_config
_dup_id.D
_dup_partial.D
_dup_sum.D
_posts.D
_subscribers.D

After trying several things I decided the best option was to work with 
just one of the lists and moved the configuration files of one list back two 
directories so that they were all under /usr/local/majordomo/lists.  It 
seemed that was what the script really wanted.

Using that configuration and running the script with the --list=listname 
option resulted in the message that it could not find the file 
listname.config.  I then renamed the _config file to listname.config and 
ran the script still again.

This time it ran to completion with no error messages but with the 
following output.

Import complete!  0 lists imported.

A check of the log revealed the following on the last run.

Apr 25 14:42:22 [DEBUG] Calling /usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists -b...
Apr 25 14:42:23 [INFO] Starting list listname...
Apr 25 14:42:23 [INFO] Getting Majordomo config for list listname...
Apr 25 14:42:23 [WARNING] No admin_passwd or listname.passwd file. 
Skipping...
Apr 25 14:42:23 [DEBUG] No config returned by getDomoConfig(). 
Skipping...
Apr 25 14:42:23 [DEBUG] Deleting /tmp/*.mm.* files...
Apr 25 14:42:23 [DEBUG] Calling /usr/local/mailman/bin/check_perms -f >> 
/tmp/import_majordomo_into_mailman.log 2>&1...
No problems found
Apr 25 14:42:23 [DEBUG] Calling /usr/local/mailman/bin/check_perms -f >> 
/tmp/import_majordomo_into_mailman.log 2>&1 again for good measure...
No problems found


I have no idea why my directory structure and file names are so 
different since I am using the version of majordomo (1.94.5) referenced 
in the script.   I guess I could have changed a default value while doing the 
original majordomo install but I do not recall doing so.  Any ideas? 
	
The second script (majordomo2mailman.pl) was worse.  It apparently ran 
but never threw an error message or had any output that I could see.   
The only way I could get anything out if it was intentionally giving it 
a wrong path to the aliases file. It would complain about that.  





_____________________________________________________________
http://mail.dogomania.com - Free email for dog enthusiasts.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 29 18:12:16 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 09:12:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recovering EMail Addresses from
 Majordomo'ssubscribers.D File
In-Reply-To: <20130429072906.24008F2C@resin04.mta.everyone.net>
References: <20130429072906.24008F2C@resin04.mta.everyone.net>
Message-ID: <517E9BE0.4070709@msapiro.net>

On 4/29/2013 7:29 AM, DSH wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately I could not get either script to work for me so
> perhaps that will come in the next post.
> 
> When looking at the first script,
> (import_majordomo_into_mailman.pl) the fist thing I noticed was the
> assumption that ?Majordomo has all of its list configurations in a
> single, local directory.?   My directory structure is as shown
> below.


This is the newer of the two scripts. It was contributed by Geoff
Mayes. See <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1129742> for more
information.

I don't know if anyone on this list knows enmough about Majordomo to
be of help. I certainly don't. I suggest you try to contact Geoff. You
can email him via launchpad although you may have to register.


> The second script (majordomo2mailman.pl) was worse.  It apparently
> ran but never threw an error message or had any output that I could
> see. The only way I could get anything out if it was intentionally
> giving it a wrong path to the aliases file. It would complain about
> that.


This script is quite old.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From guest2 at sgeinc.com  Mon Apr 29 20:16:08 2013
From: guest2 at sgeinc.com (Richard Shetron)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 14:16:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Mail
In-Reply-To: <20130429104427.GF3728@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <000b01ce4451$2f559260$0201a8c0@home3c459be30f>
	<517D98A9.2030307@msapiro.net>
	<878v42vzes.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20130429104427.GF3728@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <517EB8E8.9050201@sgeinc.com>



On 4/29/2013 6:44 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote:
[snip]

> +1. Even 5000 seems to be the threshold these days, for unknown
> netblocks.

Each has their own limit and sometimes it is based on history, sometimes 
on number reported as spam.  You can send 100k emails and if 1000 are 
reported as spam you can get blocked or even 100 at times.  Every 
provider is different.

I don't have it handy, but there was a list of some of the major 
provider's bulk sender sign up pages.  I had it bookmarked until a 
browser crash lost the bookmark for me.



From cyndi at norwitz.net  Mon Apr 29 22:54:26 2013
From: cyndi at norwitz.net (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 13:54:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Privacy Options Filtering
Message-ID: <F6EC2488-52F2-4352-AE65-BED5935B2B3F@norwitz.net>

Hi Mark and everyone,

I'm going to call this a bug, for lack of a better term.

I use Mailman version 2.1.11.  It's hosted at my ISP and I have zero control over upgrading.  Sometimes they do some custom builds but I doubt that's an issue here.  I've had the same set of issues with previous versions.

I'm having some issues with:
Privacy options: List of non-member addresses whose postings will be automatically discarded.

But it's about the list of expressions and not this specific box.

First of all, as a wish list, I would love love love if you made some changes to this feature.  I know many folks do not filter for spam but I find it very useful.  I can add email addresses to the spam list (you don't call it a spam list, but I do) from the moderation panel, which is awesome.  The trouble is with editing.

1) Yea! You fixed this one already!  The edit box shows 10 lines of addresses at a time.  Now you've added a pull-down expand corner to the box, thank you!

2) To add a domain name to the list, you have to use a regular expression in this form:
^[^@]+@(.*\.)?domain\.com$  (or use net, info, etc).
In other words, the only way to actually know that is to be a programmer or to ask on this list and save it for years, as I did.

Couldn't we just list the domains, in a separate box if required?  After all, we just list the email addresses and obviously the software knows how to handle them.  If we had a box for domains, couldn't the software be programmed to handle them?

3) To add a username (or partial) to the list, you have to use a regular expression in this form:
^username
That is way easier than domain names but still not something most of us just know.  And it only works if it's the beginning of the email address.
Could there be an easier way?  I don't want to run the risk of list owners overdoing this, but some spam usernames are super obvious.  Like freecredit or onlinepoker. 

4) It would be fantastic if we could add an entire domain name to the list of filters from the moderation panel.  Right now it is a multi-step process to do this (and difficult in part because my spam list is so very long).  Again, it would have to be done in a way where a listowner didn't overdo it (like discarding everything from yahoo.com or aol.com because some spammers use those addresses).  But it is pretty frustrating to have a moderation page with, say, 6 spams in a row from the same domain name (something obvious) but each one uses a different username, and you know hundreds more are coming.

Okay, that's the wish list.  Now on to the bug.

The moderation panel click feature will add ANY email address to the filter lists upon request.  There is no check to see if it is a legit email address or not.  But if it adds a bad address, it breaks the filter.  The filter does still work, but it may not work for all the good addresses.  I'm not sure if it works up to the bad address and then stops.

I have had this happen many times and there is no warning at all.  The only way you know is if you try to edit the filter box list.  Then when you save changes, it erases all of your changes and gives you an error message.  The error message I got today said there was a bad email address and then it listed ALL of the addresses (and expressions) in my list.  Very not useful.

I have too many to scan, though I did start from the bottom (the newer ones) and paged up a bit with no luck.  The only way to debug this is to cut and paste the entire list to a text file then paste back a few addresses at a time and save the changes to see if it works.  It took me about 20 mins.  I discovered three bad addresses, not anywhere near each other either, though my guess is they're variations on the same spammer.
nets.service at denmark
nets.kort at service
nets at service-kort

In the past, I've had addresses rejected for having certain symbols in the usernames.  This is the first time I've seen missing domain name places.  I do try to look for bad addresses when I add them to the discard list from the moderation panel, but I get a lot of spam and sometimes I miss them (not to mention that they're not always obvious like these are).

I would like to see the bad email error message come up when you ADD the email address.  If it's done directly on the Privacy page then leave it exactly as it is now.  But please add a check to the moderation page so you can't add a bad email address without at least being warned about it (better if it's rejected).

Also, when giving the error message, please say which address(es) is bad.

That's it for now.  I may not have been posting here for a long time but I'm still a happy Mailman user.

Thanks!
Cyndi


From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Tue Apr 30 04:08:26 2013
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 22:08:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Mail
In-Reply-To: <878v42vzes.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <000b01ce4451$2f559260$0201a8c0@home3c459be30f>
	<517D98A9.2030307@msapiro.net>
	<878v42vzes.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <517F279A.7060901@Damon-Family.org>

On 4/28/13 10:33 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Mark Sapiro writes:
>
> I have nothing to add to Mark's answer to question 1.
>
>  > > 2- If that email consumes 200GB of my monthly bandwidth, while my
>  > > monthly bandwidth limit is only 8GB, sending that one email will
>  > > explode and break down my whole website or it will just give me an
>  > > error that this number is higher than allowed bandwidth?
>  > 
>  > This is a question for your hosting provider. We can't answer it.
>
> Strictly speaking, Mark is correct.  Being Mark means being always
> correct, so he can't speculate. :-)  I can, however.
>
> Experience reported on the Mailman lists over the past decade shows
> that there are two common local limits.  One is count of recipients.
> If a single submission exceeds that, the local MTA may refuse to send
> that message, and you get the error, but don't use any bandwidth.  No
> subscribers get the post.  Not good, but usually not a disaster (for
> the subscribers).
>
> The second common experience is that the MTA limits either count or
> bandwidth, and stops sending.  Then some subscribers get mail and
> others don't.  This is very bad in most cases.  However, you get a new
> allocation next month.
>
> The third case is that the MTA limits *and queues the remainder*.  You
> are now well and truly hosed.  You need to get your host to delete the
> post from the MTA queue, or you won't get a usable allocation for a
> while....  (Note that AFAIK this case is usually applied by services
> that have a daily rather than a monthly quota.)

There is a fourth case, Host Provider sends the emails then sends you a
bill for the overage at the rate specified in the contract. This could
be very expensive for going that much over limit.

-- 
Richard Damon


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Apr 30 07:39:41 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:39:41 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Mail
In-Reply-To: <517F279A.7060901@Damon-Family.org>
References: <000b01ce4451$2f559260$0201a8c0@home3c459be30f>
	<517D98A9.2030307@msapiro.net>
	<878v42vzes.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<517F279A.7060901@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <20863.22813.968731.90409@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Richard Damon writes:

 > There is a fourth case, Host Provider sends the emails then sends you a
 > bill for the overage at the rate specified in the contract. This could
 > be very expensive for going that much over limit.

All I can say is, "ouch!"  :-(


From javad at irannopendar.com  Tue Apr 30 13:03:24 2013
From: javad at irannopendar.com (Javad Hoseini-Nopendar)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 15:33:24 +0430
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw:  Mass Mail
Message-ID: <001d01ce4592$5774feb0$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>



Thank you dear Mark, Steven, Adam and Richard for your helpful answers.
Now I have another question. Many of the hosting servers in my country Iran,
disable the mailing list service for all their users (unless the users of
Private Servers). If you talk to them and swear an oath not to send spam, or
if you become contented with paying extra charge, again they don't accept to
activate the mailing list service for shared hosts, because if I start
sending spam, their IP will go into the black list of Gmail and Yahoo and
all the websites on that hosting service will be blocked by Yahoo and Gmail
anti-spam filters. What do the hosting companies of other countries do in
order to prevent spamming by the users of their mailing lists? Do they
deactivate the mailing lists too, or have ways to supervise the websites and
prevent them from spamming? ----- 

Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>
To: "Richard Damon" <Richard at Damon-Family.org>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mass Mail


Richard Damon writes:

 > There is a fourth case, Host Provider sends the emails then sends you a
 > bill for the overage at the rate specified in the contract. This could
 > be very expensive for going that much over limit.

All I can say is, "ouch!"  :-(

------------------------------------------------------
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From guest2 at sgeinc.com  Tue Apr 30 17:12:34 2013
From: guest2 at sgeinc.com (Richard Shetron)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 11:12:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw:  Mass Mail
In-Reply-To: <001d01ce4592$5774feb0$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
References: <001d01ce4592$5774feb0$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
Message-ID: <517FDF62.2060403@sgeinc.com>

I can't say what others do, but we carefully vet people before setting 
up a list for someone.  One of my email addresses is on every list we 
host so I get a copy of everything sent.  I use thunderbird and have it 
filter all the mailing list traffic to a separate mailbox.  Once the 
list if properly vetted I tend to ignore the list unless I get a 
complaint.  I can then look at the last few sendings to see what was sent.

Occasionally a list member will have their computer compromised and emit 
spam.  If necessary, the user can be blocked until their computer is fixed.

Some lists use moderators so every posting to the list must be approved.

As I have root access to all the systems involved I will occasionally do 
a 'tail -f mail.log' to see how mail is flowing.  Sometimes it is too 
fast to see, but you can usually tell if most of the status messages are 
250 (message sent) or 4xx or 5xx.  Sometimes I'll just grep the log for 
specific responses.


On 4/30/2013 7:03 AM, Javad Hoseini-Nopendar wrote:
>
>
> Thank you dear Mark, Steven, Adam and Richard for your helpful answers.
> Now I have another question. Many of the hosting servers in my country Iran,
> disable the mailing list service for all their users (unless the users of
> Private Servers). If you talk to them and swear an oath not to send spam, or
> if you become contented with paying extra charge, again they don't accept to
> activate the mailing list service for shared hosts, because if I start
> sending spam, their IP will go into the black list of Gmail and Yahoo and
> all the websites on that hosting service will be blocked by Yahoo and Gmail
> anti-spam filters. What do the hosting companies of other countries do in
> order to prevent spamming by the users of their mailing lists? Do they
> deactivate the mailing lists too, or have ways to supervise the websites and
> prevent them from spamming? -----
>
> Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>
> To: "Richard Damon" <Richard at Damon-Family.org>
> Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mass Mail
>
>
> Richard Damon writes:
>
>   > There is a fourth case, Host Provider sends the emails then sends you a
>   > bill for the overage at the rate specified in the contract. This could
>   > be very expensive for going that much over limit.
>
> All I can say is, "ouch!"  :-(
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/javad%40irannopendar.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
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> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/guest2%40sgeinc.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 30 18:15:54 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:15:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw:  Mass Mail
In-Reply-To: <001d01ce4592$5774feb0$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
References: <001d01ce4592$5774feb0$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
Message-ID: <517FEE3A.3030903@msapiro.net>

On 04/30/2013 04:03 AM, Javad Hoseini-Nopendar wrote:
> 
> What do the hosting companies of other countries do in
> order to prevent spamming by the users of their mailing lists? Do they
> deactivate the mailing lists too, or have ways to supervise the websites and
> prevent them from spamming? ----- 


My impression is that many hosting services use cPanel which provides
the ability to set up Mailman lists or provide Mailing list software in
other ways and even advertise 'mailing lists' as a feature of their
service, but most place severe restrictions on the amount of mail that
can be sent, and few are actually willing to provide any support for
mailing list use.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Tue Apr 30 21:15:24 2013
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:15:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is changing list names to upper case first
 letter; how can that be changed? Are list names not case-sensitive?
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz8PTO=EiZyLN+L+ARGzGtDC+pdopDcoZQoeJ07qS=4BHw@mail.gmail.com>

To answer part of my question, I guess list names are not case
sensitive since they are used in an e-mail address.

However, I do not like Mailman assuming I want an upper case first
character in my templates and such about the list.  Specifically, I
used a script to create a list named 'cs-24' (and similarly named
ones) and I would like it to show on all pages as 'cs-24', not
'Cs-24'.

I assume there is some way to change that behavior in a python file, but where?

Thanks.

Best regards,

-Tom

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 30 22:24:17 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 13:24:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is changing list names to upper case
 first letter; how can that be changed? Are list names not case-sensitive?
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz8PTO=EiZyLN+L+ARGzGtDC+pdopDcoZQoeJ07qS=4BHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFMGiz8PTO=EiZyLN+L+ARGzGtDC+pdopDcoZQoeJ07qS=4BHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51802871.5010209@msapiro.net>

On 04/30/2013 12:15 PM, Tom Browder wrote:
> 
> I assume there is some way to change that behavior in a python file, but where?


Mailman's internal list name, i.e. the name of of it's lists/LISTNAME
directory and the name in URLs and the exposed list email addresses.
Assuming you have a case sensitive file system and web server, these
must always be lower case.

The name you are talking about is the list's real_name attribute. This
can be any 'mixed case' name that differs only in case from the internal
name and is the name you see in the listinfo overview, the titles of
various web pages, etc.

You can change this to any other name that differs only in case from the
internal name on the list's General Op[tions page (first setting) or
with bin/config_list. By default, when a list is created, it is set to
the list's internal name with the first letter upper-cased.

If you want to change this default, edit the module Mailman/MailList.py.
Around line 352 you'll see

        self.real_name = internalname[0].upper() + internalname[1:]

Change that to

        self.real_name = internalname

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Tue Apr 30 23:22:22 2013
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 16:22:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is changing list names to upper case
 first letter; how can that be changed? Are list names not case-sensitive?
In-Reply-To: <51802871.5010209@msapiro.net>
References: <CAFMGiz8PTO=EiZyLN+L+ARGzGtDC+pdopDcoZQoeJ07qS=4BHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<51802871.5010209@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz-Ub5gxe833pBFeAP5rVM+1Ywx3VOO0_m-w=z5_1nFNvA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:24 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 04/30/2013 12:15 PM, Tom Browder wrote:
>>
>> I assume there is some way to change that behavior in a python file, but where?
...
> If you want to change this default, edit the module Mailman/MailList.py.
> Around line 352 you'll see
>
>         self.real_name = internalname[0].upper() + internalname[1:]
>
> Change that to
>
>         self.real_name = internalname

That did it, Mark, great help as usual!

Thanks a heap (one more question coming later if I can't sort it out).

Best regards,

-Tom