From jerome at jolimont.fr Tue May 1 00:43:55 2012 From: jerome at jolimont.fr (=?UTF-8?B?SsOpcsO0bWU=?=) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 00:43:55 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stuck : mailmanctl dead with messages in /qfiles/in Message-ID: <20120501004355.018dca3c@bouzin.lan> Hi. Mailman somtimes gets stuck on my installation. By stuck, I mean I get no mail and no subscription notification. Until I relaunch it. I generally does not happen for a few months, but it is the second time this month. Troubleshooting --------------- http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/4.78+Troubleshooting-+No+mail+going+out+to+lists+members 2/ Cron/mailmanctl ps auxww| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep -> Nothing. 7/ Locks /var/lib/mailman/locks -> /var/lock/mailman ll /var/lock/mailman total 0 8/ Logs /var/log/mailman/error : Apr 30 03:16:21 2012 mailmanctl(11685): No child with pid: 17093 Apr 30 03:16:21 2012 mailmanctl(11685): [Errno 3] No such process Apr 30 03:16:21 2012 mailmanctl(11685): Stale pid file removed. 9/ Qfiles All queues are empty, except for "virgin" and "in". /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/in: total 168 -rw-rw---- 1 nobody list 7080 Apr 29 08:12 1335679972.4044311+fe0d8677ff8b10bdf54bbe785264c433c40927a2.pck -rw-rw---- 1 nobody list 19014 Apr 29 09:41 1335685311.8046031+26be5e0c4630e8401808bdf46c701a1975950cec.pck -rw-rw---- 1 nobody list 13435 Apr 29 10:20 1335687645.366998+ceda98fd4ccfb8a3cc6e8bb9d41e943e0ef8ec3f.pck -rw-rw---- 1 nobody list 14010 Apr 29 12:17 1335694670.941314+ab4263a19afa990cc933e18ccf1ab3a86ef02b84.pck -rw-rw---- 1 nobody list 26875 Apr 29 14:00 1335700832.115989+38cf9b0c8d1015392d44ec8047287b9c2da44260.pck -rw-rw---- 1 nobody list 25951 Apr 29 14:02 1335700966.2184939+cf9d490300e3064c49a587a5efc0d2678e8c0b0a.pck -rw-rw---- 1 nobody list 33409 Apr 29 21:13 1335726794.7660511+a3e33986aa07f3c56214159c2644714ebecbb1ff.pck -rw-rw---- 1 nobody list 1660 Apr 29 23:25 1335734733.107975+629b7c7b1e0fab72b5b60556c4a9590971461f3d.pck -rw-rw---- 1 nobody list 1420 Apr 30 11:43 1335778989.361089+5a2c8db1b2e83fb4c56900018fd315fce62c9aa0.pck -rw-rw---- 1 nobody list 2341 Apr 30 15:20 1335792010.1874161+1e1d6b7aff6b91871fc0253416f32f040bb3b8b3.pck -rw-rw---- 1 nobody list 3225 Apr 30 20:25 1335810323.462666+60026e952d7f0bfe526ae95fe4cb2562051c93c0.pck Debug info ---------- Last time it got stuck, I did the modification suggested here : http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/4.73+How+do+I+debug+smtp-failure+problems+-+delivery+to+user-example.com+failed+with+code+-1-+and+Low+level+smtp+error- modified /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to add self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1) Configuration ------------- Not sure this is useful, but /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py contains MTA='LocalPostfix' POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain1.tld', 'domain2.tld'] I would like to figure out what is happening, therefore I don't relaunch, in case there would be some more information I could get. Any advice ? Thanks. -- J?r?me From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 1 01:15:03 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 16:15:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stuck : mailmanctl dead with messages in /qfiles/in In-Reply-To: <20120501004355.018dca3c@bouzin.lan> References: <20120501004355.018dca3c@bouzin.lan> Message-ID: <4F9F1CF7.7040504@msapiro.net> On 4/30/2012 3:43 PM, J?r?me wrote: > > Mailman somtimes gets stuck on my installation. By stuck, I mean I get no > mail and no subscription notification. Until I relaunch it. [...] > Troubleshooting > --------------- > > http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/4.78+Troubleshooting-+No+mail+going+out+to+lists+members > > 2/ Cron/mailmanctl > > ps auxww| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep > -> Nothing. How about ps auxww| grep qrunner |grep -v grep > 7/ Locks > > /var/lib/mailman/locks -> /var/lock/mailman > > ll /var/lock/mailman > total 0 It appears that some process or person is stopping Mailman. > 8/ Logs > > /var/log/mailman/error : > Apr 30 03:16:21 2012 mailmanctl(11685): No child with pid: 17093 > Apr 30 03:16:21 2012 mailmanctl(11685): [Errno 3] No such process > Apr 30 03:16:21 2012 mailmanctl(11685): Stale pid file removed. How about /var/log/mailman/qrunner ? > Debug info > ---------- > > Last time it got stuck, I did the modification suggested here : > > http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/4.73+How+do+I+debug+smtp-failure+problems+-+delivery+to+user-example.com+failed+with+code+-1-+and+Low+level+smtp+error- > > modified > /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py > to add > self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1) And yet you are not logging any smtp debugging in Mailman's error log. There should be copious log information for every outgoing message. > Configuration > ------------- > > Not sure this is useful, but > /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py contains > MTA='LocalPostfix' The above line should cause significant problems when attempting to create or remove lists. it MUST be one of MTA = 'Postfix' MTA = 'Manual' MTA = None 'Postfix' means generate aliases and virtual-mailman files for Postfix. 'Manual' means display the necessary aliases None means don't do anything with aliases when lists are created/removed. > POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain1.tld', 'domain2.tld'] > > I would like to figure out what is happening, therefore I don't relaunch, in > case there would be some more information I could get. What's in the qrunner log? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jerome at jolimont.fr Tue May 1 02:19:21 2012 From: jerome at jolimont.fr (=?UTF-8?B?SsOpcsO0bWU=?=) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 02:19:21 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stuck : mailmanctl dead with messages in /qfiles/in In-Reply-To: <4F9F1CF7.7040504@msapiro.net> References: <20120501004355.018dca3c@bouzin.lan> <4F9F1CF7.7040504@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <20120501021921.704097fb@bouzin.lan> Hi. Thanks for answering. Mon, 30 Apr 2012 16:15:03 -0700 Mark Sapiro a ?crit: > > 2/ Cron/mailmanctl > > > > ps auxww| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep > > -> Nothing. > > How about > > ps auxww| grep qrunner |grep -v grep Nothing either. > > 7/ Locks > > > > /var/lib/mailman/locks -> /var/lock/mailman > > > > ll /var/lock/mailman > > total 0 > > It appears that some process or person is stopping Mailman. OK. Need to figure out which. > > 8/ Logs > > > > /var/log/mailman/error : > > Apr 30 03:16:21 2012 mailmanctl(11685): No child with pid: 17093 > > Apr 30 03:16:21 2012 mailmanctl(11685): [Errno 3] No such process > > Apr 30 03:16:21 2012 mailmanctl(11685): Stale pid file removed. > > > How about /var/log/mailman/qrunner ? Each day, I have something like this : Apr 28 03:16:33 2012 (17099) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 28 03:16:33 2012 (17094) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 28 03:16:33 2012 (17097) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 28 03:16:33 2012 (17093) Master watcher caught SIGHUP. Re-opening log files. Apr 28 03:16:34 2012 (17095) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 28 03:16:34 2012 (17101) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 28 03:16:34 2012 (17096) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 28 03:16:34 2012 (17098) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 28 03:16:34 2012 (17100) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. The day it stopped, I got this : Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17099) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17094) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17097) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17093) Master watcher caught SIGHUP. Re-opening log files. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17097) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17099) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17097) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17094) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17099) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17094) ArchRunner qrunner exiting. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17096) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17101) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17095) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17098) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17098) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17095) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17096) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17101) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17100) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17096) CommandRunner qrunner exiting. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17098) NewsRunner qrunner exiting. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17095) BounceRunner qrunner exiting. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17100) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17101) RetryRunner qrunner exiting. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17100) VirginRunner qrunner exiting. Sorry for the mess, here. But I think you get the idea. Seems to happen during a cron job. Bug reports that could be related : http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=505638 https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/265855 > > modified > > /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py > > to add > > self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1) > > And yet you are not logging any smtp debugging in Mailman's error log. > There should be copious log information for every outgoing message. There was. But it stopped. Last message for which I do have a lot of info is on Apr 22, one week before mailman stopped sending messages. -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 198 Apr 30 03:16 /var/log/mailman/error -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 0 Apr 22 03:16 /var/log/mailman/error.1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 0 Apr 15 03:16 /var/log/mailman/error.2 -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 36541617 Apr 22 01:59 /var/log/mailman/error.3 Should there be anything relevant in there ? > > Configuration > > ------------- > > > > Not sure this is useful, but > > /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py contains > > MTA='LocalPostfix' > > The above line should cause significant problems when attempting to > create or remove lists. it MUST be one of > > MTA = 'Postfix' > MTA = 'Manual' > MTA = None > > 'Postfix' means generate aliases and virtual-mailman files for Postfix. > 'Manual' means display the necessary aliases > None means don't do anything with aliases when lists are created/removed. I configured mailman 3 years ago. I don't remember everything but it comes from here : http://isp-control.net/documentation/howto/mail/setup_mailman Is it such a bad idea ? I suppose it is unrelated, anyway. Good thing is there is a relatively recent bug opened on debian that might be closed if we managed to rootcause and solve this. I just did a little bit of cleanup tonight, after I realized the server was almost full. At least the partition that hosts mailman queues and logs. Would we see something specific in case of lack of space ? Thank you for your help. -- J?r?me From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 1 04:14:48 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:14:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stuck : mailmanctl dead with messages in /qfiles/in In-Reply-To: <20120501021921.704097fb@bouzin.lan> References: <20120501004355.018dca3c@bouzin.lan> <4F9F1CF7.7040504@msapiro.net> <20120501021921.704097fb@bouzin.lan> Message-ID: <4F9F4718.8060003@msapiro.net> On 4/30/2012 5:19 PM, J?r?me wrote: > Mark Sapiro a ?crit: >> >> How about /var/log/mailman/qrunner ? > > Each day, I have something like this : > Apr 28 03:16:33 2012 (17099) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening > logs. Apr 28 03:16:33 2012 (17094) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. > Reopening logs. Apr 28 03:16:33 2012 (17097) IncomingRunner qrunner caught > SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 28 03:16:33 2012 (17093) Master watcher caught > SIGHUP. Re-opening log files. Apr 28 03:16:34 2012 (17095) BounceRunner > qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 28 03:16:34 2012 (17101) > RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 28 03:16:34 2012 > (17096) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 28 03:16:34 > 2012 (17098) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 28 > 03:16:34 2012 (17100) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. That is presumably a logrotate process. > The day it stopped, I got this : > Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17099) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening > logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17094) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. > Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17097) IncomingRunner qrunner caught > SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17093) Master watcher caught > SIGHUP. Re-opening log files. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17097) IncomingRunner > qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17099) > OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 > (17097) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17094) > ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17099) > OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17094) ArchRunner > qrunner exiting. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17096) CommandRunner qrunner caught > SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17101) RetryRunner qrunner > caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17095) BounceRunner > qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17098) > NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 > (17098) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 > (17095) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 > (17096) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 > (17101) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 > (17100) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. Reopening logs. Apr 29 03:16:29 > 2012 (17096) CommandRunner qrunner exiting. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17098) > NewsRunner qrunner exiting. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17095) BounceRunner qrunner > exiting. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17100) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM. > Stopping. Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17101) RetryRunner qrunner exiting. > Apr 29 03:16:29 2012 (17100) VirginRunner qrunner exiting. So here in addition to the normal SIGHUPs, presumably from logrotate, you also have SIGTERMs possibly from a "bin/mailmanctl stop" although you don't show a "Master watcher caught SIGTERM" entry. Check your system cron log to see what was running at the time. > Sorry for the mess, here. But I think you get the idea. > > Seems to happen during a cron job. > > Bug reports that could be related : > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=505638 > https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/265855 > >>> modified >>> /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py >>> to add >>> self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1) >> >> And yet you are not logging any smtp debugging in Mailman's error log. >> There should be copious log information for every outgoing message. > > There was. But it stopped. Last message for which I do have a lot of info is > on Apr 22, one week before mailman stopped sending messages. > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 198 Apr 30 03:16 /var/log/mailman/error > -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 0 Apr 22 03:16 /var/log/mailman/error.1 > -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 0 Apr 15 03:16 /var/log/mailman/error.2 > -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 36541617 Apr 22 01:59 /var/log/mailman/error.3 > > Should there be anything relevant in there ? No. That isn't relevant to this issue. Apparently, something reversed the patch on April 22 which is just as well. The curious thing is you are rotating logs weekly, but "reopening" them daily. Either this is two different processes or your logrotate script is a bit strange. >>> Configuration >>> ------------- >>> >>> Not sure this is useful, but >>> /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py contains >>> MTA='LocalPostfix' >> >> The above line should cause significant problems when attempting to >> create or remove lists. it MUST be one of >> >> MTA = 'Postfix' >> MTA = 'Manual' >> MTA = None >> >> 'Postfix' means generate aliases and virtual-mailman files for Postfix. >> 'Manual' means display the necessary aliases >> None means don't do anything with aliases when lists are created/removed. > > I configured mailman 3 years ago. I don't remember everything but it comes > from here : > http://isp-control.net/documentation/howto/mail/setup_mailman Which is wrong as it contains lines like MTA=Postfix and MTA=localPostfix If you put either of those lines literally in mm_cfg.py without quotes around Postfix or localPostfix, Mailman won't run at all because every Mailman process will encounter a fatal error on importing mm_cfg. Apparently you figured that out as you have quoted it. MTA='LocalPostfix' and presumably you have named your edited module LocalPostfix.py rather than localPostfix.py or it would be throwing errors when creating/removing lists. > Is it such a bad idea ? No, because the howto you followed had you create Mailman/MTA/localPostfix.py (or LocalPostfix.py), but how was I supposed to know that? See the FAQ at . > I suppose it is unrelated, anyway. Yes, it is unrelated. > Good thing is there is a relatively recent bug opened on debian that might be > closed if we managed to rootcause and solve this. > > I just did a little bit of cleanup tonight, after I realized the server was > almost full. At least the partition that hosts mailman queues and logs. Would > we see something specific in case of lack of space ? You would begin to see exceptions thrown for inability to create/write files. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dave at fiteyes.com Tue May 1 04:33:41 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 22:33:41 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] options to change URL structure? In-Reply-To: <4F99DAC7.6080309@msapiro.net> References: <4F99B8D2.2020004@msapiro.net> <4F99DAC7.6080309@msapiro.net> Message-ID: The last URL I want to change is for the public archives. I want to use "archive" instead of "pipermail" in the URL. I made the changes to apache2/sites-enabled/000-default and /etc/mailman/apache.conf Even though it was probably not needed, I ran: /var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url -- -v ...and the new archive URL appears to work. For example, I can navigate to the list's public archives with http://server.example.com/archive/ourlist/ However, on the following admin page: Example mailing list administration, General Options Section... the link: *Go to list archives* still points to http://server.example.com/pipermail/ourlist/ I restarted mailman: sudo /etc/init.d/mailman restart But the admin page still shows the old link. What should I check next? Thanks! From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 1 04:38:57 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:38:57 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] options to change URL structure? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David wrote: > >Even though it was probably not needed, I ran: >/var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url -- -v Yes, it wasn't needed. >...and the new archive URL appears to work. For example, I can navigate to >the list's public archives with > >http://server.example.com/archive/ourlist/ > >However, on the following admin page: Example mailing list administration, >General Options Section... >the link: *Go to list archives* >still points to http://server.example.com/pipermail/ourlist/ > >I restarted mailman: >sudo /etc/init.d/mailman restart > >But the admin page still shows the old link. > >What should I check next? Read the documentation and default setting for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in Defaults.py and that should tell you what you need to put in mm_cfg.py. It should be effective without restarting Mailman. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dave at fiteyes.com Tue May 1 04:48:29 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 22:48:29 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] options to change URL structure? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > David wrote: > >What should I check next? > > Read the documentation and default setting for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in > Defaults.py and that should tell you what you need to put in mm_cfg.py. > I simply added this to mm_cfg.py PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/archive/%(listname)s/' > It should be effective without restarting Mailman. > Yes, it was. Thank you! From jerome at jolimont.fr Tue May 1 14:16:49 2012 From: jerome at jolimont.fr (=?UTF-8?B?SsOpcsO0bWU=?=) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 14:16:49 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stuck : mailmanctl dead with messages in /qfiles/in In-Reply-To: <4F9F4718.8060003@msapiro.net> References: <20120501004355.018dca3c@bouzin.lan> <4F9F1CF7.7040504@msapiro.net> <20120501021921.704097fb@bouzin.lan> <4F9F4718.8060003@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <20120501141649.7cdef354@bouzin.lan> Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:14:48 -0700 Mark Sapiro a ?crit: > So here in addition to the normal SIGHUPs, presumably from logrotate, > you also have SIGTERMs possibly from a "bin/mailmanctl stop" although > you don't show a "Master watcher caught SIGTERM" entry. > > Check your system cron log to see what was running at the time. cron log was not enabled... I enabled it and relaunched mailman. I hope next time, the cron log will show something useful. > No. That isn't relevant to this issue. Apparently, something reversed > the patch on April 22 which is just as well. In fact, the patch is still applied. I see the line self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1) in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py Anyway. It seems to be working again. > The curious thing is you are rotating logs weekly, but "reopening" them > daily. Either this is two different processes or your logrotate script > is a bit strange. I'll try to figure that out. > > I configured mailman 3 years ago. I don't remember everything but it comes > > from here : > > http://isp-control.net/documentation/howto/mail/setup_mailman [...] > No, because the howto you followed had you create > Mailman/MTA/localPostfix.py (or LocalPostfix.py), but how was I supposed > to know that? > > See the FAQ at . Right. Sorry about that. I did that config 3 years ago and I don't remember much... Basically I wanted to mention I was using postfix. Thank you for your help. I'll come back here if I have more. -- J?r?me From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 1 19:06:22 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:06:22 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The mailman has "log" of moderated messages? In-Reply-To: <20120430163453.134662hf7zcgnucd@webmail.dcc.ufba.br> Message-ID: madsonra at dcc.ufba.br wrote: > >excuse me I'm not very good with English. I wonder if the mailman >stores "log" about moderation. Exactly I want to find out which >moderator approved some messages that were sent to the list. Mailman logs moderator actions in Mailman's 'vette' log, but Mailman doesn't know which moderator took the action since all use the same authentication. You need to correlate the time stamps in the vette log with the MTA logs (for emal approval) or the web server logs (for web approval). This can usually get you at least an IP address for the moderator. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dap1 at bellsouth.net Wed May 2 15:28:36 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 09:28:36 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: <4F9C71DC.2090609@msapiro.net> References: <4F9C5205.6020207@bellsouth.net> <4F9C59B6.7040508@msapiro.net> <4F9C68E0.3060708@bellsouth.net> <4F9C71DC.2090609@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <4FA13684.7000006@bellsouth.net> Of course I did not expect this to be easy. After restoring the Mailman directory as suggested, mailman will not start: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 106, in from Mailman import mm_cfg ImportError: Bad magic number in /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.pyc On 4/28/2012 6:40 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 4/28/2012 3:02 PM, Dennis Putnam wrote: >> On 4/28/2012 4:57 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> On 4/28/2012 1:24 PM, Dennis Putnam wrote: >>>> As usual my attempt to update Mandriva has destroyed Mailman. This time >>>> the update failed and rather than move forward, I reverted back to the >>>> working version (2010.2). However, I must have missed something because >>>> I am getting the following error when I try to access Mailman web: >>>> >>>> Apr 28 16:07:42 2012 admin(17726): >>>> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ pr 28 16:07:42 2012 >>>> admin(17726): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ >>>> admin(17726): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.13 -----] >>>> admin(17726): [----- Traceback ------] >>>> admin(17726): Traceback (most recent call last): >>>> admin(17726): File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 97, in run_main >>>> admin(17726): pkg = __import__('Mailman.Cgi', globals(), locals(), >>>> [scriptname]) >>>> admin(17726): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 35, >>>> in >>>> admin(17726): from Mailman import MailList >>>> admin(17726): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 64, in >>>> >>>> admin(17726): from Mailman import Gui >>>> admin(17726): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/__init__.py", line >>>> 25, in >>>> admin(17726): from Privacy import Privacy >>>> admin(17726): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py", line 28, >>>> in >>>> admin(17726): from Mailman import GPGUtils >>> This import is not in standard GNU Mailman and neither is the >>> Mailman/GPGUtils.py module. >> I wonder if the update installed this so rather than restore something, >> maybe I need to delete something. But from where is this being called? > > According to the above traceback, the import is in > /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py at line 25. > > If you have a backup of /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ you could try > restoring all of it. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 2 15:48:41 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 06:48:41 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: <4FA13684.7000006@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >Of course I did not expect this to be easy. After restoring the Mailman >directory as suggested, mailman will not start: > >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 106, in > from Mailman import mm_cfg >ImportError: Bad magic number in /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.pyc It appears your system Python is now different from the one that compiled all the .pyc files. Just do rm -r /path/to/Mailman/*.pyc This will remove all the compiled Python modules and they will be recompiled as needed. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dap1 at bellsouth.net Wed May 2 16:01:27 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 10:01:27 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FA13E37.8070506@bellsouth.net> On to the next layer of the onion. :-( Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 106, in from Mailman import mm_cfg ImportError: cannot import name mm_cfg On 5/2/2012 9:48 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> Of course I did not expect this to be easy. After restoring the Mailman >> directory as suggested, mailman will not start: >> >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 106, in >> from Mailman import mm_cfg >> ImportError: Bad magic number in /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.pyc > > It appears your system Python is now different from the one that > compiled all the .pyc files. Just do > > > rm -r /path/to/Mailman/*.pyc > > This will remove all the compiled Python modules and they will be > recompiled as needed. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 2 16:06:07 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 07:06:07 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark Sapiro wrote: > >It appears your system Python is now different from the one that >compiled all the .pyc files. Just do > > > rm -r /path/to/Mailman/*.pyc I responded without really thinking. I don't think that will work completely. It will remove the .pyc files immediately subordinate the Mailman/, but not any deeper ones. For that you need something like find /path/to/Mailman -name "*.pyc" -exec rm "{}" \; -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 2 16:12:00 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 07:12:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: <4FA13E37.8070506@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >On to the next layer of the onion. :-( > >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 106, in > from Mailman import mm_cfg >ImportError: cannot import name mm_cfg Did you remove *.py files too? If so, restore and try again removing only *.pyc files. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dap1 at bellsouth.net Wed May 2 16:20:46 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 10:20:46 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FA142BE.90607@bellsouth.net> Actually I think python itself may be hosed. I am uninstalling it and reinstalling to see if that fixes it. If not then I will try your suggestion. On 5/2/2012 10:06 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Mark Sapiro wrote: >> It appears your system Python is now different from the one that >> compiled all the .pyc files. Just do >> >> >> rm -r /path/to/Mailman/*.pyc > > I responded without really thinking. I don't think that will work > completely. It will remove the .pyc files immediately subordinate the > Mailman/, but not any deeper ones. For that you need something like > > find /path/to/Mailman -name "*.pyc" -exec rm "{}" \; > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From dap1 at bellsouth.net Wed May 2 16:59:45 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 10:59:45 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FA14BE1.2000202@bellsouth.net> I am making progress (I think). When I uninstalled and reinstalled python, it seems to have taken mailman with it. I did a reinstall of mailman and now the daemon and the qrunners start. I can also now access the initial web page with my lists shown. However, when I try to access the management page I get a 404 error. Obviously something still needs to be restored but I don't know what. Do I now need to re-restore mailman/Mailman? On 5/2/2012 10:12 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> On to the next layer of the onion. :-( >> >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 106, in >> from Mailman import mm_cfg >> ImportError: cannot import name mm_cfg > > Did you remove *.py files too? If so, restore and try again removing > only *.pyc files. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 2 17:14:52 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 08:14:52 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: <4FA14BE1.2000202@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >I am making progress (I think). When I uninstalled and reinstalled >python, it seems to have taken mailman with it. I did a reinstall of >mailman and now the daemon and the qrunners start. I can also now access >the initial web page with my lists shown. However, when I try to access >the management page I get a 404 error. Obviously something still needs >to be restored but I don't know what. Do I now need to re-restore >mailman/Mailman? I'm guessing you are saying that you can go to http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo/ and see the expected results, but either one or both of http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/ or http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/LISTNAME gives a 404. This would seem to say that /path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo exists but /path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/admin is missing. Mailman's cgi-bin directory should contain all of admin confirm edithtml listinfo options rmlist subscribe admindb create private roster If all those are there, there is probably some issue with the web server config. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dap1 at bellsouth.net Wed May 2 17:30:17 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 11:30:17 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FA15309.40106@bellsouth.net> All the cgi files are present. It appears to me that my web server config was unaffected by the botched upgrade attempt. However, I don't know if the mailman or python installs did something. What should I look for in the httpd configuration? On 5/2/2012 11:14 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> I am making progress (I think). When I uninstalled and reinstalled >> python, it seems to have taken mailman with it. I did a reinstall of >> mailman and now the daemon and the qrunners start. I can also now access >> the initial web page with my lists shown. However, when I try to access >> the management page I get a 404 error. Obviously something still needs >> to be restored but I don't know what. Do I now need to re-restore >> mailman/Mailman? > > I'm guessing you are saying that you can go to > http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo/ and see the expected results, > but either one or both of http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/ or > http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/LISTNAME gives a 404. > > This would seem to say that /path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo exists > but /path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/admin is missing. > > Mailman's cgi-bin directory should contain all of > > admin confirm edithtml listinfo options rmlist subscribe > admindb create private roster > > If all those are there, there is probably some issue with the web > server config. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 2 18:42:04 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 09:42:04 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: <4FA15309.40106@bellsouth.net> References: <4FA15309.40106@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <102e4e1c-3ee3-4943-abde-821d37a3b98e@email.android.com> Dennis Putnam wrote: >All the cgi files are present. It appears to me that my web server >config was unaffected by the botched upgrade attempt. However, I don't >know if the mailman or python installs did something. What should I >look >for in the httpd configuration? check your web server error logs. -- Mark Sapiro Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From dap1 at bellsouth.net Wed May 2 19:17:25 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 13:17:25 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: <102e4e1c-3ee3-4943-abde-821d37a3b98e@email.android.com> References: <4FA15309.40106@bellsouth.net> <102e4e1c-3ee3-4943-abde-821d37a3b98e@email.android.com> Message-ID: <4FA16C25.1030208@bellsouth.net> I seem to recall seeing this problem before but I can't find it in any of my archives. [Wed May 02 13:14:20 2012] [error] [client 74.176.153.13] script not found or unable to stat: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admin.cgi.cgi, referer: https://dap002.dyndns-ip.com/mailman/admin Obviously the double cgi extension is the problem. On 5/2/2012 12:42 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: > >> All the cgi files are present. It appears to me that my web server >> config was unaffected by the botched upgrade attempt. However, I don't >> know if the mailman or python installs did something. What should I >> look >> for in the httpd configuration? > > check your web server error logs. > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ma.76 at osu.edu Wed May 2 21:16:54 2012 From: ma.76 at osu.edu (Ma, Yuan) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 19:16:54 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I find out if a mailing list is used? Message-ID: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD67238D88@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> Hi, I am trying to find out the if a mailing list is used or not for all the mailing lists on our mailman server. May I know how I can find out such information? Thank you very much in advance. Yuan From bsfinkel at att.net Wed May 2 22:01:46 2012 From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S, Finkel) Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 15:01:46 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I find out if a mailing list is used? In-Reply-To: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD67238D88@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> References: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD67238D88@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <4FA192AA.6000503@att.net> On 5/2/2012 2:16 PM, Ma, Yuan wrote: > Hi, > > > I am trying to find out the if a mailing list is used or not for all the mailing lists on our mailman server. > May I know how I can find out such information? > > Thank you very much in advance. > > Yuan > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bsfinkel%40att.net > If a list is archived, look at the date of the last archived posting. If a list is not archived, you will have to look through Mailman logs, web logs, and/or MTA logs to see if the list has been referenced. If you think that a list is not used, you can contact the list owner. --Barry Finkel From ma.76 at osu.edu Wed May 2 22:10:01 2012 From: ma.76 at osu.edu (Ma, Yuan) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 20:10:01 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I find out if a mailing list is used? In-Reply-To: <4FA192AA.6000503@att.net> References: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD67238D88@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> <4FA192AA.6000503@att.net> Message-ID: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD67238E79@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> Hi, Barry: Thank you very much for your help. In order to see if a list has been referenced, in addition to looking through Mailman logs, web logs, and/or MTA logs, I am wondering if there is file related to a mailing list which shows the recent using time? Thank you very much again. Yuan -----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-bounces+ma.76=osu.edu at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+ma.76=osu.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of Barry S, Finkel Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 4:02 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How can I find out if a mailing list is used? On 5/2/2012 2:16 PM, Ma, Yuan wrote: > Hi, > > > I am trying to find out the if a mailing list is used or not for all the mailing lists on our mailman server. > May I know how I can find out such information? > > Thank you very much in advance. > > Yuan > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: > http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bsfinkel%40att.ne > t > If a list is archived, look at the date of the last archived posting. If a list is not archived, you will have to look through Mailman logs, web logs, and/or MTA logs to see if the list has been referenced. If you think that a list is not used, you can contact the list owner. --Barry Finkel ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ma.76%40osu.edu -- BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS ------------------------------------------------------ Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 1377202019) is spam: Spam: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1377202019&m=f1bc77a0a792&c=s Not spam: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1377202019&m=f1bc77a0a792&c=n Forget vote: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1377202019&m=f1bc77a0a792&c=f ------------------------------------------------------ END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS From dave at fiteyes.com Thu May 3 00:39:18 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 18:39:18 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] suggestion - wording for one of the admin options Message-ID: The following wording is very confusing (especially because of its similarity to the wording of the next item which has the opposite effect): Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. Leave > this field blank to skip this filter test. > I would like to propose to the developers the following wording: Pass message attachments that match a listed content type. Leave this field > blank to skip this filter test. > And here's a suggestion for the next item too: Remove message attachments that match a listed filename extension. > From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 3 01:44:23 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 16:44:23 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: <4FA16C25.1030208@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >I seem to recall seeing this problem before but I can't find it in any >of my archives. > >[Wed May 02 13:14:20 2012] [error] [client 74.176.153.13] script not >found or unable to stat: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admin.cgi.cgi, >referer: https://dap002.dyndns-ip.com/mailman/admin > >Obviously the double cgi extension is the problem. What is the setting for CGIEXT in mm_cfg.py? If there's nothing there, look in Defaults.py, but the default should be CGIEXT = '' If your cgi wrappers are actually named with a .cgi extension, CGIEXT should be set to '.cgi', otherwise it should be the default null. It is not at all clear to me why this fails with the admin CGI and not with listinfo. If there is anything in the web server that rewrites these, it shouldn't be doing that. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 3 01:53:04 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 16:53:04 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I find out if a mailing list is used? In-Reply-To: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD67238E79@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: Ma, Yuan wrote: > >In order to see if a list has been referenced, in addition to looking through Mailman logs, web logs, and/or MTA logs, I am wondering if there is file related to a mailing list which shows the recent using time? Every list has a 'last_post_time' attribute which is the time of last post. See for a withlist script to display it for one or all lists. If you want to know things like when was the web admin interface or the listinfo page for a list last accessed, you'd have to analyze your web server logs for that info as Mailman doesn't track it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 3 03:15:35 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 18:15:35 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] suggestion - wording for one of the admin options In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David wrote: > >The following wording is very confusing (especially because of its >similarity to the wording of the next item which has the opposite effect): > >Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. Leave >> this field blank to skip this filter test. >> > >I would like to propose to the developers the following wording: > >Pass message attachments that match a listed content type. Leave this field >> blank to skip this filter test. >> > > >And here's a suggestion for the next item too: > >Remove message attachments that match a listed filename extension. Thanks for your suggestions. Unfortunately, changes such as these will break the i18n translations of these messages in all 37 existing translations. I don't think the need for these changes justifies doing that. Further, your suggested "Pass message attachments that match a listed content type. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test." wording seems ambiguous to me as it doesn't say what happens to parts that don't match. Are they removed unbconditionally or does their removal depend on other settings? If I were going to make a change, I think it would need to be more like "Pass message attachments that match a listed content type and remove all others. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test." You might consider reporting this against Postorious, the new Mailman 3 web UI under development, at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dave at fiteyes.com Thu May 3 03:33:39 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 21:33:39 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regarding New Mailman 3.0 & Postorius... Message-ID: > > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Amit Bhatt > wrote: > > >* What is the differentce between Postorius and Mailman,* > They're different but related applications. Mailman handles mail and > provides an API for administration, including user management. > Postorius provides a web UI for administration. > > >* which one is better?* > "Both together." > > >* How can we upgrade the Mailman version 2.14 to new 3.0?* > If you have to ask, Mailman 3 is not ready for you. For one thing, > there is no Mailman 3.0 yet; it's still in pre-release testing. > > What state of pre-release? Beta? Alpha? What is the proposed release date? Where can I find a feature list and documentation for Mailman 3.0 & Postorius? I have not seen anything on list.org! I don't even know what this entails yet, but it sounds very exciting for Mailman users. From dave at fiteyes.com Thu May 3 03:40:27 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 21:40:27 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regarding New Mailman 3.0 & Postorius... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:33 PM, David wrote: > What state of pre-release? Beta? Alpha? What is the proposed release date? > > Where can I find a feature list and documentation for Mailman 3.0 & > Postorius? I have not seen anything on list.org! > > I don't even know what this entails yet, but it sounds very exciting for > Mailman users. > I found a few links: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+3.0 http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Web+Interface http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/2010/09/21/Mailman+3.0+alpha+6 https://launchpad.net/postorius If anyone knows of more info, I would appreciate the links. Thanks. From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 3 04:01:00 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 19:01:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regarding New Mailman 3.0 & Postorius... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David wrote: >What state of pre-release? Beta? Alpha? What is the proposed release date? The announcement was posted simultaneously to this list , mailman-developers, mailman-i18n and mailman-announce. >Where can I find a feature list and documentation for Mailman 3.0 & >Postorius? I have not seen anything on list.org! You can find lots of stuff in the wiki at and and elsewhere. Barry gave a talk at Pycon . There are lots of docs in the code trees at and . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dap1 at bellsouth.net Thu May 3 17:26:19 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 11:26:19 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FA2A39B.6030200@bellsouth.net> Thanks for the reply. You are correct in that it does not exist in mm_cfg.py. However, in Defaults.py it is set to CGIEXT = '.cgi' The question then becomes, where should I fix it (presumably in mm_cfg-py). Leave it to Mandriva to change what is normal for everyone else. On 5/2/2012 7:44 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> I seem to recall seeing this problem before but I can't find it in any >> of my archives. >> >> [Wed May 02 13:14:20 2012] [error] [client 74.176.153.13] script not >> found or unable to stat: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admin.cgi.cgi, >> referer: https://dap002.dyndns-ip.com/mailman/admin >> >> Obviously the double cgi extension is the problem. > > What is the setting for CGIEXT in mm_cfg.py? If there's nothing there, > look in Defaults.py, but the default should be > > CGIEXT = '' > > If your cgi wrappers are actually named with a .cgi extension, CGIEXT > should be set to '.cgi', otherwise it should be the default null. > > It is not at all clear to me why this fails with the admin CGI and not > with listinfo. If there is anything in the web server that rewrites > these, it shouldn't be doing that. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stephen at xemacs.org Thu May 3 17:33:24 2012 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 00:33:24 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam? In-Reply-To: <20120426073944.GA24324@fables.co.za> References: <20120426073944.GA24324@fables.co.za> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Anne Wainwright wrote: > I recently sent an invite to an unknown third party. Normally I agree with Brad Knowles on this kind of thing, but this time I can't go 100%. People regularly do make contacts with third parties that they have not previously met, with the intent of arranging mutually beneficial activities. Heck, if you think about it, that's what you're doing every time you make a first post to a mailing list. There is nothing wrong with that in general, and there is nothing (morally) wrong with that when done by email, to recipients carefully selected for high probability of getting some interest. (From this point of view, "double opt in" is just a useful, fail-safe litmus test for recipient interest, not the moral imperative some seem to think it is.) Obviously you think your mailing has passed that test. That said, it's bad business IMO (except in cases like a double opt-in mailing list where every person has explicitly indicated interest in receiving list posts). What *you* think isn't what really matters. When done by mutual acquaintance, by phone, or even by form letter, there are significant costs to making such contacts, especially when you do the phoning yourself. You must really value the recipient to go to such expense, even if small. There are no such costs to email, which means that using email as a medium puts you in company with some real scum, who send out unsolicited email indiscriminately, sometimes laden with malware or phishing URLs. It's unfair, I suppose, but I'm not surprised if you get classed with the scum on the basis of the only information the recipient has about you as a businessperson: an email that they didn't ask for. There's another problem. The ISPs are a pretty quick-on-the-trigger bunch, too, as a couple of posters have noted. But if you're not running a double opt-in list, you're not going to be able to get them to change your minds about your list. Everything I know about them, they'd rather lose half their clients' mail than get a complaint about spam. And their customers are not well-informed enough to doubt the ISPs when they blame somebody else for any problems with mail. Except spam -- it's obvious to the customer that the spam is bogus, why is it so hard for the ISP? You see their incentive, I suppose, and it works against legitimate businesses unless they follow the ISPs' rules. I conclude that for an honest business, anything is a better way than email to make first contact with a third party who doesn't know you. Regards, Steve From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 3 23:10:09 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 14:10:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: <4FA2A39B.6030200@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >Thanks for the reply. You are correct in that it does not exist in >mm_cfg.py. However, in Defaults.py it is set to > >CGIEXT = '.cgi' > >The question then becomes, where should I fix it (presumably in >mm_cfg-py). Leave it to Mandriva to change what is normal for everyone else. What are the actual names of the wrappers in Mailman's cgi-bin directory? Do they have a .cgi extension? If they do not have a .cgi extension, I would put CGIEXT = '' in mm_cfg.py. If they do have a .cgi extension, but the web server is looking for files with a .cgi.cgi (doubled) extension, I would look at the web server config and see if it is rewriting the URLs to add the second '.cgi' and, if so, remove that rewrite. Also look at the various web page links and form action= URLs and verify that they are correct. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dap1 at bellsouth.net Fri May 4 15:43:02 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 09:43:02 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FA3DCE6.2060706@bellsouth.net> Thanks. The cgi scripts do have the cgi extension on them. I put CGIEXT = '' in mm_cfg.py which, of course fixed the problem. On 5/3/2012 5:10 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> Thanks for the reply. You are correct in that it does not exist in >> mm_cfg.py. However, in Defaults.py it is set to >> >> CGIEXT = '.cgi' >> >> The question then becomes, where should I fix it (presumably in >> mm_cfg-py). Leave it to Mandriva to change what is normal for everyone else. > > What are the actual names of the wrappers in Mailman's cgi-bin > directory? Do they have a .cgi extension? > > If they do not have a .cgi extension, I would put > > CGIEXT = '' > > in mm_cfg.py. If they do have a .cgi extension, but the web server is > looking for files with a .cgi.cgi (doubled) extension, I would look at > the web server config and see if it is rewriting the URLs to add the > second '.cgi' and, if so, remove that rewrite. > > Also look at the various web page links and form action= URLs and > verify that they are correct. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jeetuindian at gmail.com Fri May 4 09:57:11 2012 From: jeetuindian at gmail.com (Jitendra Bhaskar) Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 13:27:11 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 setup Message-ID: Hi Guys, I installed mailman-3.0.0a8 according to the docs was in package. But when I am running : # bin/mailnam info GNU Mailman 3.0.0a8 (Where's My Thing?) Python 2.7.3 (default, Apr 20 2012, 22:39:59) [GCC 4.6.3] config file: /etc/mailman.cfg db url: sqlite:////opt/mailman-3.0.0a8/var/data/mailman.db REST root url: http://localhost:8001/3.0/ REST credentials: restadmin:restpass I didnt change anything in mailman.cfg. When I am trying to open http://localhost:8001/3.0/ I am getting error 401 Unauthorized The REST API requires authentication I am not getting any docs on it so that I could resolve. Can any one share any ideas. -- * Thanks & Regards * *Jitendra Kumar Bhaskar* Cell:- +91 7306311531 +91 8102997821 From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 4 18:12:17 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 09:12:17 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: <4FA3DCE6.2060706@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >Thanks. The cgi scripts do have the cgi extension on them. I put CGIEXT >= '' in mm_cfg.py which, of course fixed the problem. It may have fixed the problem for the moment, but it is the wrong way to do it. If the cgi-bin/* wrappers have .cgi extensions, the proper value for CGIEXT is '.cgi'. If that is resulting in the web server looking for *.cgi.cgi files, this is due to something that was added to the web server configuration, possibly as a prior 'solution' to a problem of the web server looking for files without the '.cgi' extension. Anyway, I would find what's adding the extra '.cgi' in the web server and remove it and then either remove the CGIEXT setting from mm_cfg.py or set it to '.cgi'. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dave at fiteyes.com Fri May 4 19:18:26 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 13:18:26 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 setup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 3:57 AM, Jitendra Bhaskar wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I installed mailman-3.0.0a8 according to the docs was in package. Did you know GNU Mailman 3.0.0b1 (The Twilight Zone) is available now? wget https://launchpad.net/mailman/3.0/3.0.0b1/+download/mailman-3.0.0b1.tar.gz I'm going to append my own question to yours: Should questions like this about the development versions of Mailman 3.0 be posted to this list or to the mailman-developers list? From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 4 19:28:01 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 10:28:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 setup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David wrote: > >I'm going to append my own question to yours: >Should questions like this about the development versions of Mailman 3.0 be >posted to this list or to the mailman-developers list? If they are installation/usage questions, they are more properly on this (mailman-users) list, but there is a lot of overlap, and I don't think anyone will get too excited over a post to the 'wrong' list. We are more concerned with helping people get going with MM 3. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 4 19:35:41 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 10:35:41 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 setup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jitendra Bhaskar wrote: > >When I am trying to open http://localhost:8001/3.0/ I am getting error > > >401 Unauthorized > >The REST API requires authentication The REST API is the API for things like the user GUI (Postorius) to use to communicate with the Mailman 3 core. See src/mailman/rest/docs/basic.rst. The end user GUI is Postorius, although because of the modular design, other, independent GUIs could be developed. See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From terri at zone12.com Sat May 5 00:57:14 2012 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 16:57:14 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 setup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FA45ECA.3010109@zone12.com> As Mark has already said, the REST interface running on http://localhost:8001/3.0/ is an internal communications mechanism for different components of Mailman. What you almost certainly wanted is the current web interface, Postorius, which needs to be installed as well. It's still in alpha, but should give you some ability to poke around. Florian's got a nice " 5 minute guide to get the Mailman web UI running" which can be found here: http://wiki.list.org/x/PwDL I recommend you take a look at that! Terri On 12-05-04 1:57 AM, Jitendra Bhaskar wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I installed mailman-3.0.0a8 according to the docs was in package. But when > I am running : > > # bin/mailnam info > > GNU Mailman 3.0.0a8 (Where's My Thing?) > Python 2.7.3 (default, Apr 20 2012, 22:39:59) > [GCC 4.6.3] > config file: /etc/mailman.cfg > db url: sqlite:////opt/mailman-3.0.0a8/var/data/mailman.db > REST root url: http://localhost:8001/3.0/ > REST credentials: restadmin:restpass > > > > I didnt change anything in mailman.cfg. > > When I am trying to open http://localhost:8001/3.0/ I am getting error > > > 401 Unauthorized > > The REST API requires authentication > > > I am not getting any docs on it so that I could resolve. Can any one > share any ideas. > > > > From dave at fiteyes.com Sat May 5 01:26:22 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 19:26:22 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 setup In-Reply-To: <4FA45ECA.3010109@zone12.com> References: <4FA45ECA.3010109@zone12.com> Message-ID: Jitendra, It looks like you are running Ubuntu 12.04. Correct? I'm trying to install Mailman 3.0 beta 1 on Ubuntu 12.04. I'm also trying to install Postorius. Maybe my notes can be of help to you. Florian's got a nice " 5 minute guide to get the Mailman web UI running" > which can be found here: http://wiki.list.org/x/PwDL I recommend you > take a look at that! > I took a look at that guide and it did not help me much. A big difference was that I'm working with the downloadable tarballs instead of with bazaar. These are all my notes on Mailman 3.0 beta 1 setup on Ubuntu 12.04. I don't have the Web UI (Postorious) installed yet. These notes are a work in progress. I hesitate to post them because they are not a final solution. If I finish getting Mailman 3.0 running before I give up, I'll share my final solution too. If someone else gets a final solution, please let me know. I also came across this useful tutorial: Python Ecosystem - An Introduction http://mirnazim.org/writings/python-ecosystem-introduction/ and http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/mailman3+in+virtualenv (looks old?) On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On May 03, 2012, at 09:20 PM, David wrote: >... I need a good tutorial on setting up the development environment, For me, it depends on whether you want to develop mm3 or install it. I want to install and run it and play with it like a user. I'm not a python developer (at least not yet, and not sure if I'll ever get that far). Barry wrote: If instead you want to run Mailman 3, I recommend using virtualenv and skipping buildout. OK. Thanks for the advice. I'll detail my steps in case it helps someone else. (I also have a few questions mixed in below.) Here's what I did: First set up a new Linode with Ubuntu 12.04 apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade which gcc which python /usr/bin/python --versions curl ifconfig.me/ip create DNS records A record for mailman3.example.com MX record for mailman3 mailman3 level 10 ssh into Ubuntu server sudo apt-get install build-essential python-dev python-virtualenv cd /opt/ wget https://launchpad.net/mailman/3.0/3.0.0b1/+download/mailman-3.0.0b1.tar.gz tar -xf mailman-3.0.0b1.tar.gz mkdir mailman3_venv # virtualenv /opt/mailman3_venv/ (New python executable in /opt/mailman3_venv/bin/python) Barry wrote: I do recommend creating an etc/mailman.cfg to customize various aspects of Mailman before you start. Take a look at src/mailman/config/schema.cfg and .../mailman.cfg for the default settings. # nano /etc/mailman.cfg done sudo apt-get install postfix openssl-blacklist ssl-cert # nano /etc/postfix/main.cf ***************** QUESTION ********************* Are the following paths correct??? transport_maps = hash:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1/var/data/postfix_lmtp local_recipient_maps = hash:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1/var/data/postfix_lmtp ******************************************************* After modifying main.cf, be sure to run '/etc/init.d/postfix reload'. root at localhost:/etc/postfix# /etc/init.d/postfix reload * Reloading Postfix configuration... [ OK ] # source /opt/mailman3_venv/bin/activate python setup.py install Finished processing dependencies for mailman==3.0.0b1 Barry wrote: Now you can run `mailman info` to get some basic information about how your system is configured, (mailman3_venv)root at localhost:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1# mailman info GNU Mailman 3.0.0b1 (The Twilight Zone) Python 2.7.3 (default, Apr 20 2012, 22:39:59) [GCC 4.6.3] config file: /etc/mailman.cfg db url: sqlite:////opt/mailman-3.0.0b1/var/data/mailman.db REST root url: http://mailman3.example.com:80/3.0/ REST credentials: yyyyyyyyyyyy:xxxxxxxxxxxxx `mailman start` to start the system, etc. (mailman3_venv)root at localhost:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1# mailman start Starting Mailman's master runner ------------------------------------------------------------- Next Question: *** A tutorial for setting up Postorius? *** Following this guide: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running I did these steps: wget http://www.djangoproject.com/download/1.4/tarball/ -O Django-1.4.tar.gz tar xzvf Django-1.4.tar.gz Question: could I have instead used # apt-get install python-django python-django-social-auth wget https://launchpad.net/postorius/trunk/1.0.0a1/+download/postorius-1.0.0a.tar.gz tar xf postorius-1.0.0a.tar.gz source /opt/mailman3_venv/bin/activate /opt/mailman-3.0.0b1# mailman start cd Django-1.4 sudo python setup.py install # cd postorius/ sudo python setup.py develop Question: How do I test that these steps have worked so far? Next, the guide ( http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running) mentions: Start the development server $ cd dev_setup $ python manage.py syncdb $ python manage.py runserver The last command will start the dev server on http://localhost:8000 I don't have a dev_setup directory. Also, I want to start the Web GUI on port 80 for public access via apache. > The following page is empty: > How to get Postorius running on Apache and mod_wsgi > http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/How+to+get+Postorius+running+on+Apache+and+mod_wsgi Richard wrote: Postorius is just a Django-based website that communicates with MM3. To deploy it, find, and follow, the directions which apply to any website powered by Django. However, I should warn you that Postorius is not as far along in its development as is the core parts that handle mail. In fact, at this time, there are so many things missing that you will be disappointed if you attempt to make the interface publicly visible. Next Question: ---------------------- *** what are the first tests I should perform after starting mailman? *** Barry wrote: Try creating a mailing list from the command line: $ mailman create -d test at mailman3.example.com.com Barry wrote: Subscribe some addresses to mylist. Edit a file with a list of email addresses and names using one of these formats, one entry per line: anne at example.com (Anne Person) Bart Person Barry wrote: then run: $ mailman members -a filename.txt test at mailman3.example.com.com Barry wrote: Now start up Mailman, your MTA Question: What is the method for generating aliases for Postfix in Mailman 3? I've already done: # apt-get install postfix openssl-blacklist ssl-cert see: http://packages.python.org/mailman/src/mailman/commands/docs/aliases.html Barry wrote: ...and send a message to test at mailman3.example.com.com. All the members you just added should get a copy. Check your MTA logs and Mailman's own logs for details or problems. From jeetuindian at gmail.com Mon May 7 21:11:57 2012 From: jeetuindian at gmail.com (Jitendra Bhaskar) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 00:41:57 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 setup In-Reply-To: References: <4FA45ECA.3010109@zone12.com> Message-ID: Hey, First of all thanks to all the guys for quick and nice suggestion. The thing is that I have some hardware issue. I want to first upgrade my existing system , then I will use mailman3. Currently I have mailman-2.1.4 running on mya live smtp(postfix) server. I want to migrate 2.1.4 to 2.1.14. I already installed 2.1.14, its working. I installed from source code with location /usr/local/mailman and in existing server it mailman installed throung yum. binaries are in /usr/lib/mail and variable data dir is /var/lib/mailman. Then can any one suggest how to migrate all the data from existing server to new one. Thanks & Regards Jitendra On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 4:56 AM, David wrote: > Jitendra, > It looks like you are running Ubuntu 12.04. Correct? I'm trying to install > Mailman 3.0 beta 1 on Ubuntu 12.04. I'm also trying to install Postorius. > Maybe my notes can be of help to you. > > Florian's got a nice " 5 minute guide to get the Mailman web UI running" >> which can be found here: http://wiki.list.org/x/PwDL I recommend you >> take a look at that! >> > > I took a look at that guide and it did not help me much. A big difference > was that I'm working with the downloadable tarballs instead of with bazaar. > > These are all my notes on Mailman 3.0 beta 1 setup on Ubuntu 12.04. I > don't have the Web UI (Postorious) installed yet. These notes are a work in > progress. I hesitate to post them because they are not a final solution. If > I finish getting Mailman 3.0 running before I give up, I'll share my final > solution too. If someone else gets a final solution, please let me know. > > I also came across this useful tutorial: > Python Ecosystem - An Introduction > http://mirnazim.org/writings/python-ecosystem-introduction/ > and > http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/mailman3+in+virtualenv (looks old?) > > On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > On May 03, 2012, at 09:20 PM, David wrote: > > >... I need a good tutorial on setting up the development environment, > > For me, it depends on whether you want to develop mm3 or install it. > > > I want to install and run it and play with it like a user. I'm not a > python developer (at least not yet, and not sure if I'll ever get that far). > > > Barry wrote: If instead you want to run Mailman 3, I recommend using > virtualenv and skipping buildout. > > OK. Thanks for the advice. > > I'll detail my steps in case it helps someone else. (I also have a few > questions mixed in below.) Here's what I did: > > First set up a new Linode with Ubuntu 12.04 > apt-get update > apt-get dist-upgrade > > which gcc > which python > /usr/bin/python --versions > curl ifconfig.me/ip > > create DNS records > A record for mailman3.example.com > MX record for mailman3 mailman3 level 10 > > > ssh into Ubuntu server > sudo apt-get install build-essential python-dev python-virtualenv > cd /opt/ > wget > https://launchpad.net/mailman/3.0/3.0.0b1/+download/mailman-3.0.0b1.tar.gz > tar -xf mailman-3.0.0b1.tar.gz > mkdir mailman3_venv > # virtualenv /opt/mailman3_venv/ > (New python executable in /opt/mailman3_venv/bin/python) > > Barry wrote: I do recommend creating an etc/mailman.cfg to customize > various aspects of Mailman before you start. Take a look at > src/mailman/config/schema.cfg and .../mailman.cfg for the default settings. > > > # nano /etc/mailman.cfg > done > > sudo apt-get install postfix openssl-blacklist ssl-cert > > # nano /etc/postfix/main.cf > > ***************** QUESTION ********************* > Are the following paths correct??? > transport_maps = > hash:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1/var/data/postfix_lmtp > local_recipient_maps = > hash:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1/var/data/postfix_lmtp > > ******************************************************* > > After modifying main.cf, be sure to run '/etc/init.d/postfix reload'. > root at localhost:/etc/postfix# /etc/init.d/postfix reload > * Reloading Postfix > configuration... [ OK > ] > > # source /opt/mailman3_venv/bin/activate > python setup.py install > Finished processing dependencies for mailman==3.0.0b1 > > Barry wrote: Now you can run `mailman info` to get some basic > information about how your > system is configured, > > > (mailman3_venv)root at localhost:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1# mailman info > > GNU Mailman 3.0.0b1 (The Twilight Zone) > Python 2.7.3 (default, Apr 20 2012, 22:39:59) > [GCC 4.6.3] > config file: /etc/mailman.cfg > db url: sqlite:////opt/mailman-3.0.0b1/var/data/mailman.db > REST root url: http://mailman3.example.com:80/3.0/ > REST credentials: yyyyyyyyyyyy:xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > `mailman start` to start the system, etc. > > > (mailman3_venv)root at localhost:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1# mailman start > Starting Mailman's master runner > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > Next Question: > *** A tutorial for setting up Postorius? *** > > > Following this guide: > http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running > I did these steps: > > wget http://www.djangoproject.com/download/1.4/tarball/ -O > Django-1.4.tar.gz > tar xzvf Django-1.4.tar.gz > > Question: could I have instead used > # apt-get install python-django python-django-social-auth > > wget > https://launchpad.net/postorius/trunk/1.0.0a1/+download/postorius-1.0.0a.tar.gz > tar xf postorius-1.0.0a.tar.gz > > source /opt/mailman3_venv/bin/activate > /opt/mailman-3.0.0b1# mailman start > > cd Django-1.4 > sudo python setup.py install > > # cd postorius/ > sudo python setup.py develop > > Question: How do I test that these steps have worked so far? > > Next, the guide ( > http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running) > mentions: > > Start the development server > $ cd dev_setup > $ python manage.py syncdb > $ python manage.py runserver > > The last command will start the dev server on http://localhost:8000 > > I don't have a dev_setup directory. Also, I want to start the Web GUI on > port 80 for public access via apache. > > > The following page is empty: > > How to get Postorius running on Apache and mod_wsgi > > > http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/How+to+get+Postorius+running+on+Apache+and+mod_wsgi > > Richard wrote: Postorius is just a Django-based website that > communicates with MM3. To deploy it, find, and follow, the directions which > apply to any website powered by Django. However, I should warn you that > Postorius is not as far along in its development as is the core parts that > handle mail. In fact, at this time, there are so many things missing that > you will be disappointed if you attempt to make the interface publicly > visible. > > Next Question: > ---------------------- > *** what are the first tests I should perform after starting mailman? *** > > Barry wrote: Try creating a mailing list from the command line: > $ mailman create -d test at mailman3.example.com.com > > Barry wrote: Subscribe some addresses to mylist. Edit a file with a > list of email addresses and names using one of these formats, one entry per > line: > anne at example.com (Anne Person) > Bart Person > > Barry wrote: then run: > $ mailman members -a filename.txt test at mailman3.example.com.com > > Barry wrote: Now start up Mailman, your MTA > > Question: What is the method for generating aliases for Postfix in Mailman > 3? > > I've already done: # apt-get install postfix openssl-blacklist ssl-cert > see: > http://packages.python.org/mailman/src/mailman/commands/docs/aliases.html > > Barry wrote: ...and send a message to test at mailman3.example.com.com. > All the members you just added should get a copy. Check your MTA logs and > Mailman's own logs for details or problems. > > > > -- * Thanks & Regards * *Jitendra Kumar Bhaskar* Cell:- +91 7306311531 +91 8102997821 From dave at fiteyes.com Mon May 7 23:37:11 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 17:37:11 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory Message-ID: What is the solution for this? OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments' # ls -la /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments ls: cannot access /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory Should I just create the directory and set permissions? Why didn't it get created? Thanks. From dave at fiteyes.com Mon May 7 23:40:30 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 17:40:30 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:37 PM, David wrote: > What is the solution for this? > > OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: > '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments' > > # ls -la /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments > ls: cannot access /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No > such file or directory > > Should I just create the directory and set permissions? Why didn't it get > created? Thanks. > This might help too: May 07 21:20:50 2012 (2355) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0 May 07 21:20:50 2012 (2355) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments' May 07 21:20:50 2012 (2355) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 214, in ArchiveMail h.processUnixMailbox(f) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 566, in processUnixMailbox m = mbox.next() File "/usr/lib/python2.7/mailbox.py", line 2014, in next return self.factory(_PartialFile(self.fp, start, stop)) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber return mailbox.scrub(msg) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 253, in process url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir, filter_html=False) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 419, in save_attachment makedirs(fsdir) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 406, in makedirs os.makedirs(dir, 02775) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/os.py", line 150, in makedirs makedirs(head, mode) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/os.py", line 150, in makedirs makedirs(head, mode) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/os.py", line 157, in makedirs mkdir(name, mode) OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments' From dave at fiteyes.com Mon May 7 23:44:33 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 17:44:33 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ooops. If a moderator sees this, you can delete this whole thread without sending it. The problem was permissions. I thought I had looked at that and validated correct permissions in my very first trouble shooting step, but apparently I missed something. The problem was simply permissions -- the well-known Ubuntu issue. On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:40 PM, David wrote: > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:37 PM, David wrote: > >> What is the solution for this? >> >> OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: >> '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments' >> >> # ls -la /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments >> ls: cannot access /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No >> such file or directory >> >> Should I just create the directory and set permissions? Why didn't it get >> created? Thanks. >> > > This might help too: > > May 07 21:20:50 2012 (2355) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0 > May 07 21:20:50 2012 (2355) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] > Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments' > May 07 21:20:50 2012 (2355) Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop > self._onefile(msg, msgdata) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile > keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose > mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 214, in > ArchiveMail > h.processUnixMailbox(f) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 566, in > processUnixMailbox > m = mbox.next() > File "/usr/lib/python2.7/mailbox.py", line 2014, in next > return self.factory(_PartialFile(self.fp, start, stop)) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber > return mailbox.scrub(msg) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub > return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 253, in > process > url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir, filter_html=False) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 419, in > save_attachment > makedirs(fsdir) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 406, in > makedirs > os.makedirs(dir, 02775) > File "/usr/lib/python2.7/os.py", line 150, in makedirs > makedirs(head, mode) > File "/usr/lib/python2.7/os.py", line 150, in makedirs > makedirs(head, mode) > File "/usr/lib/python2.7/os.py", line 157, in makedirs > mkdir(name, mode) > > OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: > '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments' > > From Rose.Futchko at INFORMS.ORG Mon May 7 23:17:05 2012 From: Rose.Futchko at INFORMS.ORG (Futchko, Rose) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 17:17:05 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Bounce Processing Message-ID: <050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E505E4B539@mail1.informs.org> Good Afternoon, We are using Mailman 2.15 and have an unusual problem that I was hoping that someone can help me with. We have close to 109 lists running successfully, however there are times when bounce processing sends the following message (over 100 times) in the span of a few hours to one user/subscriber to the list. They are not the admin: This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: List: list-society Member: Name Action: Subscription disabled. Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. The triggering bounce notice is attached below. Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at <><><><><><> The original message was received at Mon, 7 May 2012 09:50:13 -0400 from localhost [127.0.0.1] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 550 5.1.1 unknown or illegal user: (reason: 550 #5.1.0 Address rejected.) (reason: 550 Host unknown) I understand why a user would get this message if they exceeded their threshold, but why are over 100 of the same messages being sent to one individual. Thank you, RF From terry at fiteyes.com Tue May 8 02:04:33 2012 From: terry at fiteyes.com (Terry Earley) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 18:04:33 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages disappear after moderator approves Message-ID: We are having posts, when approved by moderator, not delivered. /var/lib/mailman/logs/post doesn't show the "missing" message. /var/lib/mailman/logs/error doesn't show any errors. "Maximum length in kilobytes (KB) of a message body" is set to zero (no limit). Messages are not bounced and no members see the post. -- Terry Earley terry at fiteyes.com 801 706-7470 From stephen at xemacs.org Tue May 8 10:48:36 2012 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 17:48:36 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87pqafrrbv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> David writes: > apparently I missed something. The problem was simply permissions -- the > well-known Ubuntu issue. Not just Ubuntu. I believe pretty much every system that Mailman runs on runs into these issues every once in a while. It's important to run bin/check_perms every time you upgrade, and check the output carefully (IIRC setup.py runs it automatically, so the important part is checking the output). If it's not 100% clean, then run "bin/check_perms -f". Sometimes multiple runs are necessary. From parakrama1282 at gmail.com Tue May 8 16:40:56 2012 From: parakrama1282 at gmail.com (dhanushka ranasinghe) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:10:56 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation string is not working Message-ID: Hi..... guys As you guys know.after sending unsubscribe request to mailing list it will send the confirmation string..,my problem is this string is not working, when i enter the string and submit it , page will just refresh to the same page. can't find in any errors in even logs.. any idea why this is happening .. Thank You Dhanushka From dave at fiteyes.com Tue May 8 17:19:29 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 11:19:29 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: <87pqafrrbv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87pqafrrbv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 4:48 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > David writes: > > > apparently I missed something. The problem was simply permissions -- the > > well-known Ubuntu issue. > > Not just Ubuntu. I believe pretty much every system that Mailman runs > on runs into these issues every once in a while. > > It's important to run bin/check_perms every time you upgrade, and > check the output carefully (IIRC setup.py runs it automatically, so > the important part is checking the output). If it's not 100% clean, > then run "bin/check_perms -f". Sometimes multiple runs are > necessary. > How would you recommend addressing this? root at localhost:/var/lib/mailman# bin/check_perms -f /var/lib/mailman/Mailman bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/icons bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/locks bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/scripts bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/cron bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/mail bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/templates bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/2012-April/index.html bad group (has: www-data, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/2012-May/index.html bad group (has: www-data, expected list) (fixing) Problems found: 12 Re-run as list (or root) with -f flag to fix Re-running it does not change the results. I believe each item in the output is a symlink. I checked a few: # ls -la /var/lib/mailman/Mailman lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 2012-04-17 23:16 /var/lib/mailman/Mailman -> /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman # ls -la /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman total 824 drwxr-xr-x 11 root list 4096 2012-05-01 14:37 . From dave at fiteyes.com Tue May 8 17:41:14 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 11:41:14 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: References: <87pqafrrbv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 11:19 AM, David wrote: > > > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 4:48 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > >> David writes: >> >> > apparently I missed something. The problem was simply permissions -- >> the >> > well-known Ubuntu issue. >> >> Not just Ubuntu. I believe pretty much every system that Mailman runs >> on runs into these issues every once in a while. >> >> It's important to run bin/check_perms every time you upgrade, and >> check the output carefully (IIRC setup.py runs it automatically, so >> the important part is checking the output). If it's not 100% clean, >> then run "bin/check_perms -f". Sometimes multiple runs are >> necessary. >> > > > Here is some unexpected behavior: root at localhost:/var/lib/mailman# bin/check_perms -f /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/2012-May/index.html bad group (has: www-data, expected list) (fixing) Problems found: 1 Re-run as list (or root) with -f flag to fix Re-running multiple times doesn't fix this. Checking permissions shows that it has the correct group (list): -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 1037 May 8 14:02 index.html Any recommendation on fixing this? I fixed the other group problems with the help of this blog post: http://www.mydigitallife.info/change-group-ownership-of-symbolic-links-in-unix-or-linux/ chgrp can be used to change group ownership of files and directories in > almost all UNIX-variant platforms, including Linux such as Fedora Core, > Ubunto and etc. However, if you try to change the group membership of a > symbolic link, the group ownership of its referenced or linked file is > changed instead. > > This is the default behavior of chgrp command, where dereference option is > used by default so that all changes will affect the referent of each > symbolic link, rather than the symbolic link itself. > > To change the group ownership of symbolic link, simply use the -h or > ?no-dereference flag to the chgrp command. > > Example: > > chgrp -h new_group symbolic_link_name > From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Tue May 8 17:43:09 2012 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 18:43:09 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation string is not working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 May 2012, dhanushka ranasinghe wrote: > As you guys know.after sending unsubscribe request to mailing list it > will send the confirmation string..,my problem is this string is not > working, > > when i enter the string and submit it , page will just refresh to the > same page. can't find in any errors in even logs.. any idea why this > is happening .. You don't enter the string into a web page. You either reply to the Email message, or click the link in the Email (IIRC). Geoff. From dave at fiteyes.com Tue May 8 17:46:10 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 11:46:10 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: References: <87pqafrrbv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 11:41 AM, David wrote: > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 11:19 AM, David wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 4:48 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >> >>> David writes: >>> >>> > apparently I missed something. The problem was simply permissions -- >>> the >>> > well-known Ubuntu issue. >>> >>> Not just Ubuntu. I believe pretty much every system that Mailman runs >>> on runs into these issues every once in a while. >>> >>> It's important to run bin/check_perms every time you upgrade, and >>> check the output carefully (IIRC setup.py runs it automatically, so >>> the important part is checking the output). If it's not 100% clean, >>> then run "bin/check_perms -f". Sometimes multiple runs are >>> necessary. >>> >> >> >> > Here is some unexpected behavior: > > root at localhost:/var/lib/mailman# bin/check_perms -f > > /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/2012-May/index.html bad group (has: > www-data, expected list) (fixing) > Problems found: 1 > Re-run as list (or root) with -f flag to fix > > Re-running multiple times doesn't fix this. > > Checking permissions shows that it has the correct group (list): > Ooops. My mistake. There was a symlink involved that I didn't check. Using the -h option on chgrp fixed this issue too. # bin/check_perms -f No problems found All permissions are reported as OK now. The check_perms is a very handy script. Thanks for the suggestion to use it. From misterbhatt at gmail.com Tue May 8 18:30:21 2012 From: misterbhatt at gmail.com (Amit Bhatt) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 22:00:21 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] error while access to archive Message-ID: <6661E41F43BA471BBA986D7B5CF21E91@amit> Hi all, We are facing an unforeseen error: HTTP 404 Not Found while trying to access the archive. I have set the option for public archive to view and it was working fine today this morning but the above error started appearing by this afternoon. The entire mailing list and site is showing no error but it has happened with archive only. any advise? Regards, Amit Bhatt From parakrama1282 at gmail.com Tue May 8 18:31:12 2012 From: parakrama1282 at gmail.com (dhanushka ranasinghe) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 22:01:12 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation string is not working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi.. As you correctly mention when i click the link in the mail, it ask to click "unsubscribe" button unsubscripted ..After clicking , it get pormt another page called "*Enter confirmation cookie*" Any idea why this is happening.. Thank You On 8 May 2012 21:13, Geoff Shang wrote: > On Tue, 8 May 2012, dhanushka ranasinghe wrote: > >> As you guys know.after sending unsubscribe request to mailing list it >> will send the confirmation string..,my problem is this string is not >> working, >> >> when i enter the string and submit it , page will just refresh to the >> same page. can't find in any errors in even logs.. any idea why this >> is happening .. > > > You don't enter the string into a web page. You either reply to the Email > message, or click the link in the Email (IIRC). > > Geoff. > From dave at fiteyes.com Tue May 8 18:37:12 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:37:12 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: References: <87pqafrrbv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 4:48 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >>> >>>> If it's not 100% clean, >>>> then run "bin/check_perms -f". Sometimes multiple runs are >>>> necessary. >>>> >>> # bin/check_perms -f > No problems found > > All permissions are reported as OK now. The check_perms is a very handy > script. Thanks for the suggestion to use it. > After fixing permissions, we lost web access to the public archive: Forbidden You don't have permission to access /archive/list/ on this server. In the past, I could resolve this with: sudo chown -R list /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/ That permissions fix suggestion (to enable access to the public archives on Ubuntu) came from http://eridanus.net/archives/451 Suggestions? From mollatt at yoafrica.com Tue May 8 18:11:45 2012 From: mollatt at yoafrica.com (Mollatt Ntini) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 18:11:45 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation problem Message-ID: <4FA945C1.4080909@yoafrica.com> Hello everyone, I hope someone can show me in the right direction here. I have a FreeBSD 8.0 running Mailman 2.1.2 on Exim 4.69. My problem is that I have recently added 2 lists, all working perefectly with just one slight problem. I have users who ARE NOT MEMBERS of the list but are just supposed to send information to the list without requiring to be moderated, and MEMBERS of the list with no mod activated. The Non-memnbers' addresses I have put under Privacy Options ---> Sender Filters ----> Non-member filters. Which I assume is fine, but everytime any other specified users send to the list I always have to go in and release it. Even if I the owner of the list has to send to the list I always have to go in and release it. What could be wrong here? Please help, Regards, Mollatt. From misterbhatt at gmail.com Tue May 8 18:43:14 2012 From: misterbhatt at gmail.com (Amit Bhatt) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 22:13:14 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] All mails do not reach to all users... Message-ID: <4F50E057F9C84E1D95F4B0000F630F68@amit> Dear experts, I had discuss the similar issue couple of Months back here. Actually the mails sent by the senders are not reaching to all the subscribers of my mailing list. I got some steps here and forwarded them to our web service provider but they could not resolve the issue. After facing huge problems, I finally shifted to the new service provider and they are Internationally known as very good service provider and their mail delivery and other services seem to be working fine but the issue of non delivery of E-mails to some users still remain there. I have discussed this matter with other moderators of two different mailing list and they told me that they also confront the same issue some time. so what does it mean? Is this a bug on Mailman? Can we expect not to be happened in mailman 3 in the coming future? Please, I would appreciate if someone can make me understand to do something in simple steps. Regards, Amit Bhatt From dave at fiteyes.com Tue May 8 20:16:21 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 14:16:21 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: References: <87pqafrrbv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 12:37 PM, David wrote: > > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 4:48 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >>>> >>>>> If it's not 100% clean, >>>>> then run "bin/check_perms -f". Sometimes multiple runs are >>>>> necessary. >>>>> >>>> # bin/check_perms -f >> No problems found >> >> All permissions are reported as OK now. The check_perms is a very handy >> script. Thanks for the suggestion to use it. >> > > > After fixing permissions, we lost web access to the public archive: > > Forbidden > > You don't have permission to access /archive/list/ on this server. > > > The fix was relatively easy. Apache runs as user www-data. After running bin/check_perms, I had to run: chown -R www-data /var/lib/mailman/archives/private Then I also ran /var/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt From m3freak at thesandhufamily.ca Wed May 9 00:33:36 2012 From: m3freak at thesandhufamily.ca (Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 18:33:36 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] View all topics and who's subscribed to them Message-ID: <1336516416.1996.60.camel@master.thesandhufamily.local> Hi All, How can I pull out from the cli how many topics are configured in mailman, and who's subscribed to them? Do I need to write a script or is one available somewhere on the intertubes? Note: I know I can check the admin page for the list of topics. Regards, Ranbir -- Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu Linux 3.3.2-6.fc16.x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux 18:33:23 up 1 day, 11:15, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.03, 0.05 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 01:21:20 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 16:21:20 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 setup In-Reply-To: References: <4FA45ECA.3010109@zone12.com> Message-ID: <4FA9AA70.1080202@msapiro.net> On 5/7/2012 12:11 PM, Jitendra Bhaskar wrote: > > I want to migrate 2.1.4 to > 2.1.14. I already installed 2.1.14, its working. I installed from source > code with location /usr/local/mailman and in existing server it mailman > installed throung yum. binaries are in /usr/lib/mail and variable data dir > is /var/lib/mailman. Then can any one suggest how to migrate all the data > from existing server to new one. See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 01:25:00 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 16:25:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Bounce Processing In-Reply-To: <050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E505E4B539@mail1.informs.org> References: <050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E505E4B539@mail1.informs.org> Message-ID: <4FA9AB4C.8020502@msapiro.net> On 5/7/2012 2:17 PM, Futchko, Rose wrote: > We are using Mailman 2.15 and have an unusual problem that I was hoping > that someone can help me with. There is no 2.15. Do you mean 2.1.5? > We have close to 109 lists running > successfully, however there are times when bounce processing sends the > following message (over 100 times) in the span of a few hours to one > user/subscriber to the list. They are not the admin: > > > > This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: Without seeing the complete message with all headers, it is virtually impossible to guess what may be happening. Can you post a complete message example with all headers? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 01:30:28 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 16:30:28 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages disappear after moderator approves In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FA9AC94.7020404@msapiro.net> On 5/7/2012 5:04 PM, Terry Earley wrote: > We are having posts, when approved by moderator, not delivered. > > /var/lib/mailman/logs/post doesn't show the "missing" message. > /var/lib/mailman/logs/error doesn't show any errors. > "Maximum length in kilobytes (KB) of a message body" is set to zero (no > limit). > > Messages are not bounced and no members see the post. What's in Mailman's vette log? The most likely scenario is the message is approved and then after content filtering there's nothing left (e.g., HTML only message, HTML filtered or maybe e.g. multipart/related message and that type not allowed) and filter_action is Discard. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 02:19:02 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 17:19:02 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: References: <87pqafrrbv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <4FA9B7F6.3090507@msapiro.net> On 5/8/2012 11:16 AM, David wrote: > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 12:37 PM, David wrote: > >>>>> # bin/check_perms -f >>> No problems found >>> >>> All permissions are reported as OK now. The check_perms is a very handy >>> script. Thanks for the suggestion to use it. >>> >> >> >> After fixing permissions, we lost web access to the public archive: >> >> Forbidden >> >> You don't have permission to access /archive/list/ on this server. And this was probably because you saw the following Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x). This could allow other users on your system to read private archives. If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the installation manual on how to fix this.""") And you then did the equivalent of chmod o-x archives/private/ without actually reading and understanding the warning in the installation manual at . > The fix was relatively easy. Apache runs as user www-data. After running > bin/check_perms, I had to run: > chown -R www-data /var/lib/mailman/archives/private The -R in the above is unnecessary as all the subordinates should be world readable and searchable already. You only need to ensure that the web server can search the archives/private/ directory to find the archives/private/LISTNAME directories pointed to by the archives/public/LISTNAME symlinks. Thus, archives/private/ must be either o+x or owned by the web server user (Its group must be Mailman's group, 'list' in your case). The only problem with its being o+x is if you have local, shell access users on your server for whom you want to ensure no access to private list archives. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 02:26:57 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 17:26:57 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation string is not working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FA9B9D1.1080700@msapiro.net> On 5/8/2012 9:31 AM, dhanushka ranasinghe wrote: > > As you correctly mention when i click the link in the mail, it ask to click > "unsubscribe" button unsubscripted ..After clicking , it get pormt > another page called "*Enter confirmation cookie*" Any idea why this is > happening.. The string you are entering has expired. These confirmations expire some time after they are sent. The time is set for the installation by setting PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE in mm_cfg.py. The default time is 3 days. If the confirmation email/invitation/??? was sent more than 3 days or whatever PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE is ago, the cookie has expired, and yoiu have to submit a new request. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 02:37:12 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 17:37:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation problem In-Reply-To: <4FA945C1.4080909@yoafrica.com> References: <4FA945C1.4080909@yoafrica.com> Message-ID: <4FA9BC38.6040700@msapiro.net> On 5/8/2012 9:11 AM, Mollatt Ntini wrote: > > I hope someone can show me in the right direction here. I have a FreeBSD > 8.0 running Mailman 2.1.2 on Exim 4.69. My problem is that I have > recently added 2 lists, all working perefectly with just one slight > problem. I have users who ARE NOT MEMBERS of the list but are just > supposed to send information to the list without requiring to be > moderated, and MEMBERS of the list with no mod activated. The > Non-memnbers' addresses I have put under Privacy Options ---> Sender > Filters ----> Non-member filters. Which I assume is fine, but everytime > any other specified users send to the list I always have to go in and > release it. Even if I the owner of the list has to send to the list I > always have to go in and release it. Why are the messages being held? If the reason is "Post to moderated list", the member's "mod" flags are set. If it is some other reason, what is the reason? Also, it is not completely clear to me if the non-members who are in accept_these_nonmembers can post? Can they? if not, what is the reason their messages are held? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From parakrama1282 at gmail.com Wed May 9 02:37:42 2012 From: parakrama1282 at gmail.com (dhanushka ranasinghe) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 06:07:42 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation string is not working In-Reply-To: <4FA9B9D1.1080700@msapiro.net> References: <4FA9B9D1.1080700@msapiro.net> Message-ID: i tested even with a new request but still have the same issue, Thank You On 9 May 2012 05:56, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 5/8/2012 9:31 AM, dhanushka ranasinghe wrote: > > > > As you correctly mention when i click the link in the mail, it ask to > click > > "unsubscribe" button unsubscripted ..After clicking , it get pormt > > another page called "*Enter confirmation cookie*" Any idea why this is > > happening.. > > > The string you are entering has expired. These confirmations expire some > time after they are sent. The time is set for the installation by > setting PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE in mm_cfg.py. The default time is 3 days. > If the confirmation email/invitation/??? was sent more than 3 days or > whatever PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE is ago, the cookie has expired, and yoiu > have to submit a new request. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 02:38:51 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 17:38:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] error while access to archive In-Reply-To: <6661E41F43BA471BBA986D7B5CF21E91@amit> References: <6661E41F43BA471BBA986D7B5CF21E91@amit> Message-ID: <4FA9BC9B.3060008@msapiro.net> On 5/8/2012 9:30 AM, Amit Bhatt wrote: > Hi all, > > We are facing an unforeseen error: HTTP 404 Not Found > while trying to access the archive. > > I have set the option for public archive to view and it was working fine today this morning but the above error started appearing by this afternoon. > The entire mailing list and site is showing no error but it has happened with archive only. What does your web server error log say? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dave at fiteyes.com Wed May 9 02:39:54 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:39:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: <4FA9B7F6.3090507@msapiro.net> References: <87pqafrrbv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <4FA9B7F6.3090507@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 5/8/2012 11:16 AM, David wrote: > > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 12:37 PM, David wrote: > > > > >>>>> # bin/check_perms -f > >>> No problems found > >>> > >>> All permissions are reported as OK now. The check_perms is a very handy > >>> script. Thanks for the suggestion to use it. > >>> > >> > >> > >> After fixing permissions, we lost web access to the public archive: > >> > >> Forbidden > >> > >> You don't have permission to access /archive/list/ on this server. > > > And this was probably because you saw the following > > Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x). > This could allow other users on your system to read private > archives. > If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the > installation manual on how to fix this.""") > > And you then did the equivalent of > > chmod o-x archives/private/ > > without actually reading and understanding the warning in the > installation manual at . > > Good guess, but no, I did not do that. All I did was run bin/check_perms -f several times. Permissions were left exactly as check_perms -f set them: drwxrwsr-x > > > The fix was relatively easy. Apache runs as user www-data. After running > > bin/check_perms, I had to run: > > chown -R www-data /var/lib/mailman/archives/private > > > The -R in the above is unnecessary as all the subordinates should be > world readable and searchable already. For whatever reason, it did not work even with the world readable and searchable permissions until I changed ownerships recursively. > You only need to ensure that the > web server can search the archives/private/ directory to find the > archives/private/LISTNAME directories pointed to by the > archives/public/LISTNAME symlinks. > > Thus, archives/private/ must be either o+x or owned by the web server > user (Its group must be Mailman's group, 'list' in your case). That was the case. But I got the permissions errors until I also set the owner to www-data (apache user). So I can't say I understand the problem. It is working now, and I will study your responses and see if I can come to a better understanding. > The only > problem with its being o+x is if you have local, shell access users on > your server for whom you want to ensure no access to private list archives. > From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 02:46:05 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 17:46:05 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] All mails do not reach to all users... In-Reply-To: <4F50E057F9C84E1D95F4B0000F630F68@amit> References: <4F50E057F9C84E1D95F4B0000F630F68@amit> Message-ID: <4FA9BE4D.4030704@msapiro.net> On 5/8/2012 9:43 AM, Amit Bhatt wrote: > > I finally shifted to the new service provider > and they are Internationally known as very good service provider and > their mail delivery and other services seem to be working fine but > the issue of non delivery of E-mails to some users still remain > there. I have discussed this matter with other moderators of two > different mailing list and they told me that they also confront the > same issue some time. so what does it mean? Is this a bug on Mailman? > Can we expect not to be happened in mailman 3 in the coming future? No, it is not a bug in Mailman and it probably will be no different under Mailman 3. You have to follow the mail through the various MTAs between your Mailman server and the recipient server. Typically, you or your service provider will find a log message indicating the original email message was accepted for delivery by the recipient's ISP, but the recipient never gets the mail. At this point, All you can do is provide the recipient with the full log message containing timestamp and the receiving server's queue ID, and then the recipient has to take this up with their ISP. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Wed May 9 02:41:11 2012 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 19:41:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation string is not working In-Reply-To: References: <4FA9B9D1.1080700@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <13392EB3-9F55-44E5-BA99-DEAE2DF29557@stonejongleux.com> Then check mm_cfg.py and make sure PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE hasn't been set to something ridiculously short. While Mark stated that the default is 3 days, we have no idea what your installation's setting for it is. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ On May 8, 2012, at 7:37 PM, dhanushka ranasinghe wrote: > i tested even with a new request but still have the same issue, > > Thank You > > On 9 May 2012 05:56, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> On 5/8/2012 9:31 AM, dhanushka ranasinghe wrote: >>> >>> As you correctly mention when i click the link in the mail, it ask to >> click >>> "unsubscribe" button unsubscripted ..After clicking , it get pormt >>> another page called "*Enter confirmation cookie*" Any idea why this is >>> happening.. >> >> >> The string you are entering has expired. These confirmations expire some >> time after they are sent. The time is set for the installation by >> setting PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE in mm_cfg.py. The default time is 3 days. >> If the confirmation email/invitation/??? was sent more than 3 days or >> whatever PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE is ago, the cookie has expired, and yoiu >> have to submit a new request. >> >> -- >> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, >> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lstone19%40stonejongleux.com From parakrama1282 at gmail.com Wed May 9 03:02:01 2012 From: parakrama1282 at gmail.com (dhanushka ranasinghe) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 06:32:01 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation string is not working In-Reply-To: <13392EB3-9F55-44E5-BA99-DEAE2DF29557@stonejongleux.com> References: <4FA9B9D1.1080700@msapiro.net> <13392EB3-9F55-44E5-BA99-DEAE2DF29557@stonejongleux.com> Message-ID: it has default value 3 , but doing some redirection form . example.com to mail.example.com , when visiting the mailman web interface, hope its ok... Thank You On 9 May 2012 06:11, Larry Stone wrote: > Then check mm_cfg.py and make sure PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE hasn't been set to > something ridiculously short. While Mark stated that the default is 3 days, > we have no idea what your installation's setting for it is. > > -- > Larry Stone > lstone19 at stonejongleux.com > http://www.stonejongleux.com/ > > On May 8, 2012, at 7:37 PM, dhanushka ranasinghe wrote: > > > i tested even with a new request but still have the same issue, > > > > Thank You > > > > On 9 May 2012 05:56, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > > >> On 5/8/2012 9:31 AM, dhanushka ranasinghe wrote: > >>> > >>> As you correctly mention when i click the link in the mail, it ask to > >> click > >>> "unsubscribe" button unsubscripted ..After clicking , it get pormt > >>> another page called "*Enter confirmation cookie*" Any idea why this > is > >>> happening.. > >> > >> > >> The string you are entering has expired. These confirmations expire some > >> time after they are sent. The time is set for the installation by > >> setting PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE in mm_cfg.py. The default time is 3 days. > >> If the confirmation email/invitation/??? was sent more than 3 days or > >> whatever PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE is ago, the cookie has expired, and yoiu > >> have to submit a new request. > >> > >> -- > >> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > >> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > >> > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lstone19%40stonejongleux.com > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/parakrama1282%40gmail.com > From stephen at xemacs.org Wed May 9 03:05:49 2012 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 10:05:49 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation string is not working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87obpyrwnm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> dhanushka ranasinghe writes: > Hi.. > As you correctly mention when i click the link in the mail, it ask to click > "unsubscribe" button unsubscripted ..After clicking , it get pormt > another page called "*Enter confirmation cookie*" Any idea why this is > happening.. Check that the cookie in the URL is correct. IIRC, the only characters allowed are upper and lowercase letters, and numerals. Why this might matter: some mail clients (and even some mail servers) will mangle the cookie in the URL by including extra characters. Common cases in my experience include a backslash somewhere in the middle (edit this out in the address bar of the browser and resubmit), an "=" at the very end (edit and resubmit), and a newline in the middle (copy and paste the trailing portion from the mail message). From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 03:14:08 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 18:14:08 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation string is not working In-Reply-To: References: <4FA9B9D1.1080700@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <4FA9C4E0.2030407@msapiro.net> On 5/8/2012 5:37 PM, dhanushka ranasinghe wrote: > i tested even with a new request but still have the same issue, There have been issues in the past with browsers encoding characters in strange ways. When you get the error "Invalid confirmation string: xxxxxx", is the xxxxxx string exactly what was in the email and/or what you entered? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 03:34:46 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 18:34:46 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: References: <87pqafrrbv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <4FA9B7F6.3090507@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <4FA9C9B6.2010901@msapiro.net> On 5/8/2012 5:39 PM, David wrote: > > Good guess, but no, I did not do that. All I did was run bin/check_perms > -f several times. > Permissions were left exactly as check_perms -f set them: > drwxrwsr-x [...] > For whatever reason, it did not work even with the world readable and > searchable permissions until I changed ownerships recursively. What were the ownership and permissions in some example archived messages and their containing directories before you changed them? What about newly archived messages. Presumably, those are not owned by www-data. can you access them? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 04:00:53 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 19:00:53 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] View all topics and who's subscribed to them In-Reply-To: <1336516416.1996.60.camel@master.thesandhufamily.local> Message-ID: Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu wrote: > >How can I pull out from the cli how many topics are configured in >mailman, and who's subscribed to them? Do I need to write a script or >is one available somewhere on the intertubes? You probably need to create at least a withlist script, but it's pretty simple. something like def list_topics(mlist): if mlist.topics: print ('List %s has the following topics defined:' % mlist.real_name) for name, pattern, desc, emptyflag in mlist.topics: print ' Topic name: %s; Pattern: %s' % (name, pattern) print ' Subscribed users:' for user in mlist.getRegularMemberKeys(): if name in mlist.getMemberTopics(user): print ' %s' % user else: print 'List %s has no topics defined.' % mlist.real_name This will print a topic followed by the list of users subscribed to it, followed by the next, etc. It could easily be rearranged to print all the topics followed by a list of users and their subscribed topics. E.g., something like: def list_topics(mlist): if mlist.topics: print ('List %s has the following topics defined:' % mlist.real_name) for name, pattern, desc, emptyflag in mlist.topics: print ' Topic name: %s; Pattern: %s' % (name, pattern) for user in mlist.getRegularMemberKeys(): if mlist.getMemberTopics(user): print 'User %s is subscribed to' % user for topic in mlist.getMemberTopics(user): print ' %s' % topic else: print 'List %s has no topics defined.' % mlist.real_name -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From parakrama1282 at gmail.com Wed May 9 05:05:09 2012 From: parakrama1282 at gmail.com (dhanushka ranasinghe) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 08:35:09 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation string is not working In-Reply-To: <4FA9C4E0.2030407@msapiro.net> References: <4FA9B9D1.1080700@msapiro.net> <4FA9C4E0.2030407@msapiro.net> Message-ID: hi... Thanks for the answers one final question ...,untill i sort out the issue is there any way to edit mail that we get when we request unsubscription .. eg - (hide the URL with confirmation string and, then i can force users to unsubscribe by sending repay to the mail) Thank You On 9 May 2012 06:44, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 5/8/2012 5:37 PM, dhanushka ranasinghe wrote: > > i tested even with a new request but still have the same issue, > > > There have been issues in the past with browsers encoding characters in > strange ways. When you get the error "Invalid confirmation string: > xxxxxx", is the xxxxxx string exactly what was in the email and/or what > you entered? > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 05:10:36 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 20:10:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation string is not working In-Reply-To: References: <4FA9B9D1.1080700@msapiro.net> <4FA9C4E0.2030407@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <4FA9E02C.3020704@msapiro.net> On 5/8/2012 8:05 PM, dhanushka ranasinghe wrote: > hi... > > Thanks for the answers one final question ...,untill i sort out the > issue is there any way to edit mail that we get when we request > unsubscription .. eg - (hide the URL with confirmation string and, then > i can force users to unsubscribe by sending repay to the mail) See the FAQ at . The name of the template is unsub.txt. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dave at fiteyes.com Wed May 9 05:22:19 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 23:22:19 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: <4FA9C9B6.2010901@msapiro.net> References: <87pqafrrbv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <4FA9B7F6.3090507@msapiro.net> <4FA9C9B6.2010901@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > What about newly archived messages. Presumably, those are not owned by > www-data. can you access them? > They are owned by www-data and I can access them. The reason they are owned by www-data is because of the directory permissions the "bin/check_perms -f" command created: drwxrwsr-x 2 www-data list 4096 May 8 22:42 . The group "s" permission, which the check_perms script set, does the following: If the SGID (Set Group Identification) attribute is set on a directory, > files created in that directory inherit its group ownership. From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 06:17:36 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 21:17:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: References: <87pqafrrbv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <4FA9B7F6.3090507@msapiro.net> <4FA9C9B6.2010901@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <4FA9EFE0.400@msapiro.net> On 5/8/2012 8:22 PM, David wrote: > > > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Mark Sapiro > wrote: > > > What about newly archived messages. Presumably, those are not owned by > www-data. can you access them? > > > They are owned by www-data and I can access them. The reason they are > owned by www-data is because of the directory permissions the > "bin/check_perms -f" command created: > > drwxrwsr-x 2 www-data list 4096 May 8 22:42 . > > The group "s" permission, which the check_perms script set, does the > following: > > If the SGID (Set Group Identification) attribute is set on a > directory, files created in that directory inherit its group ownership. Yes, and what that means is that created subordinate directories will be group 'list' and SETGID, and created subordinated files will be group 'list' But, the owner, not the group, will be the id of the user that created them which for archived files will normally be 'list' not 'www-data' because the files are created by ArchRunner, not by the web server. So, back to my original questions. What is the ownership of files archived after you ran your 'chown -R', and can you access them, and what were the ownership and permissions of some example archived messages and their containing directories before you changed them? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dave at fiteyes.com Wed May 9 09:05:47 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 03:05:47 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: <4FA9EFE0.400@msapiro.net> References: <87pqafrrbv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <4FA9B7F6.3090507@msapiro.net> <4FA9C9B6.2010901@msapiro.net> <4FA9EFE0.400@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:17 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 5/8/2012 8:22 PM, David wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Mark Sapiro > > wrote: > > > > > > What about newly archived messages. Presumably, those are not owned > by > > www-data. can you access them? > > > > > > They are owned by www-data and I can access them. The reason they are > > owned by www-data is because of the directory permissions the > > "bin/check_perms -f" command created: > > > > drwxrwsr-x 2 www-data list 4096 May 8 22:42 . > > > > The group "s" permission, which the check_perms script set, does the > > following: > > > > If the SGID (Set Group Identification) attribute is set on a > > directory, files created in that directory inherit its group > ownership. > > > Yes, and what that means is that created subordinate directories will be > group 'list' and SETGID, and created subordinated files will be group > 'list' > > But, the owner, not the group, will be the id of the user that created > them which for archived files will normally be 'list' not 'www-data' > because the files are created by ArchRunner, not by the web server. > > So, back to my original questions. What is the ownership of files > archived after you ran your 'chown -R', and can you access them, and > what were the ownership and permissions of some example archived > messages and their containing directories before you changed them? > > -- > Yes, I can access all the archived messages now, as expected. You are right about the ownership. In checking again, I can access files from the listing below regardless of whether the owner is www-data or list. I did not change any permissions directly. I ran the check_perms script. It fixed over 200 items, but but would not fix 12 items. Re-running it several times would not fix those remaining items (I assume because they were all symlinks). So I fixed the symlinks manually, such as: chgrp -h list /var/lib/mailman/templates After fixing the remaining group ownerships in this way, I ran check_perms again and it reported no problems. But then I was unable to access the public archices. That's when I changed ownership with: chown -R www-data /var/lib/mailman/archives/private As soon as I ran that command, I was able to access the archives again. I can't say absolutely what the group ownership was prior to that, but I think the owner was list and group was list, judging from the directory listing below. root at localhost:/var/lib/mailman/archives/private# ls -la list/2012-May total 432 drwxrwsr-x 2 www-data list 4096 May 8 22:42 . drwxrwsr-x 5 www-data list 4096 May 8 03:27 .. -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 11654 May 7 22:22 000000.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 8492 May 8 02:18 000001.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 14475 May 8 18:54 000002.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 2865 May 8 18:54 000003.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3390 May 8 18:54 000004.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 4521 May 8 18:54 000005.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3790 May 8 02:18 000006.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 11299 May 8 18:54 000007.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 4833 May 8 02:18 000008.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3134 May 8 18:54 000009.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 5923 May 8 18:54 000010.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 8348 May 8 02:18 000011.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3847 May 8 18:54 000012.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 20422 May 8 18:54 000013.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3687 May 8 18:54 000014.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 5147 May 8 18:54 000015.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 4133 May 8 18:54 000016.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 6029 May 8 18:54 000017.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 5171 May 8 18:54 000018.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3434 May 8 18:54 000019.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 5875 May 8 18:54 000020.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3533 May 8 18:54 000021.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3996 May 8 18:54 000022.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 7329 May 8 18:54 000023.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 4985 May 8 18:54 000024.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 5136 May 8 18:54 000025.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 7115 May 8 18:54 000026.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 6618 May 8 18:54 000027.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3929 May 8 18:54 000028.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3333 May 8 19:43 000029.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 4049 May 8 18:54 000030.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 4980 May 8 19:42 000031.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 5532 May 8 18:54 000032.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 3202 May 8 18:54 000033.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 3471 May 8 18:54 000034.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 4488 May 8 18:54 000035.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 4294 May 8 18:54 000036.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 5253 May 8 19:42 000037.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 4388 May 8 20:50 000038.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 3992 May 8 22:42 000039.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 8728 May 8 22:24 000040.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 7746 May 8 22:42 000041.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 6224 May 8 22:42 000042.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 9060 May 8 22:42 000043.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 6918 May 8 22:42 000044.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 6612 May 8 22:42 000045.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 12211 May 8 22:42 000046.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 10337 May 8 22:42 000047.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 11630 May 8 22:42 000048.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 8007 May 8 22:42 author.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 8011 May 8 22:42 date.html lrwxrwxrwx 1 www-data list 11 May 7 22:06 index.html -> thread.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 8005 May 8 22:42 subject.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 10312 May 8 22:42 thread.html From Rose.Futchko at INFORMS.ORG Wed May 9 14:17:28 2012 From: Rose.Futchko at INFORMS.ORG (Futchko, Rose) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 08:17:28 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Bounce Processing In-Reply-To: <4FA9AB4C.8020502@msapiro.net> References: <050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E505E4B539@mail1.informs.org> <4FA9AB4C.8020502@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E505E95DC1@mail1.informs.org> Hello, Yes, I meant 2.1.5 -- thank you. This is the additional information: >>> 5/7/2012 9:58 AM >>> This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: List: Listname Member: email address Action: Subscription disabled. Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. The triggering bounce notice is attached below. Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at mailman at list.informs.org. 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Mon, 7 May 2012 08:08:40 -0400 From: Elise Miller-Hooks To: "transci-logistics-section at list.informs.org" , "transci-logistics-society at list.informs.org" Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 08:08:37 -0400 Thread-Topic: A great loss for the TSL Society Thread-Index: Ac0sSaLy16gsDbusR+ShPb1Nsm9MIA== Message-ID: <0D78E3BEE1F5C04CA3641F214EE381AD01A4EBA4801A at OITMXCMS01VI.AD.UMD.EDU> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=2.9 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED shortcircuit=no autolearn=unavailable version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on mail.informs.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 07 May 2012 09:48:04 -0400 Cc: Subject: [Transci-logistics-society] A great loss for the TSL Society X-BeenThere: transci-logistics-society at list.informs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Transportation Science and Logistics Society of INFORMS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 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Mon, 7 May 2012 10:27:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost) by mail.informs.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) id q47ER58i028269; Mon, 7 May 2012 10:27:05 -0400 Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:27:05 -0400 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Message-Id: <201205071427.q47ER58i028269 at mail.informs.org> To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="q47ER58i028269.1336400825/mail.informs.org" Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=2.9 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on mail.informs.org Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.informs.org Received-From-MTA: DNS; localhost Arrival-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 09:50:13 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; kenneth.kuhn at canterbury.ac.nz Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; mx1.canterbury.ac.nz Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.1.1 unknown or illegal user:kenneth.kuhn at canterbury.ac.nz Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 09:53:26 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; martin.savelsbergh at csiro.au Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; act-mx.csiro.au Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 #5.1.0 Address rejected. Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 09:54:06 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; dlagana at deis.unica.it Action: failed Status: 5.1.2 Remote-MTA: DNS; deis.unica.it Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Host unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 09:54:24 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; muhammad.mazahir-6 at etudiants.ensam.eu Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 Remote-MTA: DNS; mail-in.ensam.eu Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 511 Destinataire inconnu - Recipient unknown -(muhammad.mazahir-6 at etudiants.ensam.eu) Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 09:57:39 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; kroodbergen at fac.fbk.eur.nl Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; mercury.fbk.eur.nl Diagnostic-Code: SMTP;550 5.1.1 : Recipient addressrejected: User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 09:57:43 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; daduna at fhwr-berlin.de Action: failed Status: 5.1.2 Remote-MTA: DNS; fhwr-berlin.de Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Host unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 09:57:58 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; a.strauss at lancaster.ac.uk Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; whobblebury.lancs.ac.uk Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Invalid recipient address Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:04:41 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; eduardo.soares at latop.com.br Action: failed Status: 5.7.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; mx5.infolink.com.br Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 554 5.7.1<64-56-46-224.isp.comcastbusiness.net[64.56.46.224]>: Clienthost rejected: =myspam gold= We don't accept Direct Deliveryfrom Dial-up/DSL/CABLE/Wireless/3G networks. If you are NOTdoing E-mail Marketing/Opt-in/Opt-out/SPAM/UCE (which areforbidden here), please contact abuse at infolink.com.br with thecomplete ERROR MESSAGE to be analized. Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:04:46 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; brka at man.dtu.dk Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; filter2.ait.dtu.dk Diagnostic-Code: SMTP;550 5.1.1 ... Sorry, no mailbox here by thatname or mailbox is over quota Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:06:30 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; raist at man.dtu.dk Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; filter2.ait.dtu.dk Diagnostic-Code: SMTP;550 5.1.1 ... Sorry, no mailbox here bythat name or mailbox is over quota Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:06:30 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; liebchen at math.tu-berlin.de Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; mail.tu-berlin.de Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Recipient verify failed Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:06:56 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; k.akartunali at ms.unimelb.edu.au Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; puffer.ms.unimelb.edu.au Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 : Recipient addressrejected: User unknown in local recipient table Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:10:15 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; combste at ornl.gov Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; mta02.ornl.gov Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 #5.1.0 Address rejected. Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:15:07 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; jlancaster at qatarairways.com.qa Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; mx1.qatarairways.com.qa Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 #5.1.0 Address rejected. Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:15:50 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; schinaso at transmartconsulting.gr Action: failed Status: 5.1.2 Remote-MTA: DNS; transmartconsulting.gr Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Host unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:19:19 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; kwanghun.chung at uclouvain.be Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be Diagnostic-Code: SMTP;550 5.1.1 : Recipient addressrejected: unknown address Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:21:47 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; sehernan at uniandes.edu.co Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; avmx02.uniandes.edu.co Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.1.1 Recipient address rejected: User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:24:44 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; jshan at ust.hk Action: failed Status: 5.3.0 Remote-MTA: DNS; mx1.ust.hk Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 5.3.0 ... Recipient address no longerexists Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:25:27 -0400 The original message was received at Mon, 7 May 2012 09:50:13 -0400 from localhost [127.0.0.1] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 550 5.1.1 unknown or illegal user: kenneth.kuhn at canterbury.ac.nz) (reason: 550 #5.1.0 Address rejected.) (reason: 550 Host unknown) (reason: 511 Destinataire inconnu - Recipient unknown - (muhammad.mazahir-6 at etudiants.ensam.eu)) (reason: 550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: User unknown) (reason: 550 Host unknown) -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 7:25 PM To: Futchko, Rose Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help with Bounce Processing On 5/7/2012 2:17 PM, Futchko, Rose wrote: > We are using Mailman 2.15 and have an unusual problem that I was > hoping that someone can help me with. There is no 2.15. Do you mean 2.1.5? > We have close to 109 lists running > successfully, however there are times when bounce processing sends the > following message (over 100 times) in the span of a few hours to one > user/subscriber to the list. They are not the admin: > > > > This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: Without seeing the complete message with all headers, it is virtually impossible to guess what may be happening. Can you post a complete message example with all headers? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dap1 at bellsouth.net Wed May 9 16:48:51 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 10:48:51 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FAA83D3.3020503@bellsouth.net> I've made the decision to abandon Mandriva and migrate to Centos. I have mailman up an running (sort of) but now have the opposite problem. This is a vanilla install of Apache so the only config file is mailman.conf at this time. The cgi extension does not exist, in cgi-bin, on this installation of mailman. However, apache is looking for .cgi. I don't understand why this is a problem out of the box. Shouldn't a vanilla install have this configured correctly? In any case what is the correct way to configure this? Thanks. On 5/4/2012 12:12 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> Thanks. The cgi scripts do have the cgi extension on them. I put CGIEXT >> = '' in mm_cfg.py which, of course fixed the problem. > > It may have fixed the problem for the moment, but it is the wrong way > to do it. > > If the cgi-bin/* wrappers have .cgi extensions, the proper value for > CGIEXT is '.cgi'. If that is resulting in the web server looking for > *.cgi.cgi files, this is due to something that was added to the web > server configuration, possibly as a prior 'solution' to a problem of > the web server looking for files without the '.cgi' extension. > > Anyway, I would find what's adding the extra '.cgi' in the web server > and remove it and then either remove the CGIEXT setting from mm_cfg.py > or set it to '.cgi'. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 18:20:27 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 09:20:27 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David wrote: > >Yes, I can access all the archived messages now, as expected. You are right >about the ownership. In checking again, I can access files from the listing >below regardless of whether the owner is www-data or list. > >I did not change any permissions directly. I ran the check_perms script. It >fixed over 200 items, but but would not fix 12 items. Re-running it several >times would not fix those remaining items (I assume because they were all >symlinks). So I fixed the symlinks manually, such as: > >chgrp -h list /var/lib/mailman/templates check_perms does not work with symlinks, but it doesn't matter because the ownership/permissions of a symlink are irrelevant, only the target ownership and permissions are relevant. What happens is check_perms sees the ownership and permissions of the symlink and complains and if run with -f, 'fixes' the ownership and permissions of the target, but since the permissions of the symlink haven't changed, check_perms complains again the next time. In a standard source install, there are no symlinks so this is not in issue. In certain packages (Debian/Ubuntu for example) there are symlinks. See the FAQ at . >After fixing the remaining group ownerships in this way, I ran check_perms >again and it reported no problems. But then I was unable to access the >public archices. > >That's when I changed ownership with: >chown -R www-data /var/lib/mailman/archives/private > >As soon as I ran that command, I was able to access the archives again. > >I can't say absolutely what the group ownership was prior to that, but I >think the owner was list and group was list, judging from the directory >listing below. I can't diagnose what the real issue was without knowing the ownership and permissions before the change, but I doubt that running chown -R www-data /var/lib/mailman/archives/private with -R was necessary. In fact, if the permissions drwxrwsr-x 2 www-data list 4096 May 8 22:42 . you show in the post at are those of /var/lib/mailman/archives/private, I think you could run chown -R list /var/lib/mailman/archives/private or even chown -R nobody /var/lib/mailman/archives/private and public archive access would still work because according to the listing below, the /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list directory and its subordinates are all world searchable/readable and in that case it should be sufficient for /var/lib/mailman/archives/private to be drwxrws--x 2 list list ... >root at localhost:/var/lib/mailman/archives/private# ls -la list/2012-May >total 432 >drwxrwsr-x 2 www-data list 4096 May 8 22:42 . >drwxrwsr-x 5 www-data list 4096 May 8 03:27 .. >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 11654 May 7 22:22 000000.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 8492 May 8 02:18 000001.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 14475 May 8 18:54 000002.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 2865 May 8 18:54 000003.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3390 May 8 18:54 000004.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 4521 May 8 18:54 000005.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3790 May 8 02:18 000006.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 11299 May 8 18:54 000007.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 4833 May 8 02:18 000008.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3134 May 8 18:54 000009.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 5923 May 8 18:54 000010.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 8348 May 8 02:18 000011.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3847 May 8 18:54 000012.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 20422 May 8 18:54 000013.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3687 May 8 18:54 000014.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 5147 May 8 18:54 000015.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 4133 May 8 18:54 000016.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 6029 May 8 18:54 000017.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 5171 May 8 18:54 000018.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3434 May 8 18:54 000019.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 5875 May 8 18:54 000020.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3533 May 8 18:54 000021.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3996 May 8 18:54 000022.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 7329 May 8 18:54 000023.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 4985 May 8 18:54 000024.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 5136 May 8 18:54 000025.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 7115 May 8 18:54 000026.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 6618 May 8 18:54 000027.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3929 May 8 18:54 000028.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 3333 May 8 19:43 000029.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 4049 May 8 18:54 000030.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 4980 May 8 19:42 000031.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 5532 May 8 18:54 000032.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 3202 May 8 18:54 000033.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 3471 May 8 18:54 000034.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 4488 May 8 18:54 000035.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 4294 May 8 18:54 000036.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 5253 May 8 19:42 000037.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 4388 May 8 20:50 000038.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 3992 May 8 22:42 000039.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 8728 May 8 22:24 000040.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 7746 May 8 22:42 000041.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 6224 May 8 22:42 000042.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 9060 May 8 22:42 000043.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 6918 May 8 22:42 000044.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 6612 May 8 22:42 000045.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 12211 May 8 22:42 000046.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 10337 May 8 22:42 000047.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 11630 May 8 22:42 000048.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 8007 May 8 22:42 author.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 8011 May 8 22:42 date.html >lrwxrwxrwx 1 www-data list 11 May 7 22:06 index.html -> thread.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 8005 May 8 22:42 subject.html >-rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data list 10312 May 8 22:42 thread.html -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dave at fiteyes.com Wed May 9 20:41:29 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 14:41:29 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list/attachments: No such file or directory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > I can't diagnose what the real issue was without knowing the ownership > and permissions before the change Thank you. This discussion has increased my understanding and better prepared me to deal with these issues after future upgrades. I know what to look for now. We also have a test box running an identical installation of Mailman. If we can reproduce this I'll let you know. (I can't go back and check permissions on the test box now, however, because I actually did these steps on that box first, then implemented them on the production box -- before I noticed the loss of access to the archives. So both boxes have the same permissions/ownerships at this point.) The good news is that everything is working. From ma.76 at osu.edu Wed May 9 20:56:37 2012 From: ma.76 at osu.edu (Ma, Yuan) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 18:56:37 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change a mailing list password? Message-ID: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD6724A474@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> Hi, As an owner of a mailing list, how can the owner change the admin password of the mailing list? Thanks. Yuan Ma From m3freak at thesandhufamily.ca Wed May 9 21:20:15 2012 From: m3freak at thesandhufamily.ca (Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu) Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 15:20:15 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] View all topics and who's subscribed to them In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1336591215.7325.14.camel@master.thesandhufamily.local> On Tue, 2012-05-08 at 19:00 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > You probably need to create at least a withlist script, but it's pretty > simple. something like > > > def list_topics(mlist): > if mlist.topics: > print ('List %s has the following topics defined:' % > mlist.real_name) > for name, pattern, desc, emptyflag in mlist.topics: > print ' Topic name: %s; Pattern: %s' % (name, pattern) > print ' Subscribed users:' > for user in mlist.getRegularMemberKeys(): > if name in mlist.getMemberTopics(user): > print ' %s' % user > else: > print 'List %s has no topics defined.' % mlist.real_name > > > This will print a topic followed by the list of users subscribed to it, > followed by the next, etc. I tried the first one and it worked! I got exactly the info I needed, and I learned about the "withlist" script - thanks! Note: I have not been using mailman for very long, so I'm still learning lots (i.e. massive gaps in knowledge). :P Regards, Ranbir -- Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu Linux 3.3.2-6.fc16.x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux 15:20:11 up 20:05, 3 users, load average: 0.05, 0.06, 0.05 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Wed May 9 21:16:51 2012 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 21:16:51 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change a mailing list password? In-Reply-To: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD6724A474@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> References: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD6724A474@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <20120509191651.GI6566@charite.de> * Ma, Yuan : > Hi, > > As an owner of a mailing list, how can the owner change the admin password of the mailing list? Via the webinterface. -- Ralf Hildebrandt Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de Campus Benjamin Franklin http://www.charite.de Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155 From dave at fiteyes.com Wed May 9 21:40:20 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 15:40:20 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: <4FAA83D3.3020503@bellsouth.net> References: <4FAA83D3.3020503@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote: > I've made the decision to abandon Mandriva and migrate to Centos. If you wanted to migrate to Ubuntu 12.04, I could give you all the steps for getting Mailman up and running easily. But someone else will probably be able to help you with Apache on Centos. From dave at fiteyes.com Wed May 9 22:01:57 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 16:01:57 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery Message-ID: Is this an appropriate place to discuss the broader topic of how to best use Mailman? Now that we have it running well, we would like to take additional steps to ensure that the list's emails are delivered as well as they can be. The 37Signals article caught my attention. I would enjoy knowing others's thoughts about how to apply these (or other) suggestions to Mailman. It seems to me that Mailman provides at least some of the intelligence (via logs) that 37Signals custom developed on top of Postfix. Am I right? The core suggestions seem to be universalL SPF records, DKIM signing, reverse DNS entries, etc.. (And, btw, I don't yet know how to implement any of those things except SPF records.) Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery We send a lot of mail for Basecamp , Highrise , Backpack, and Campfire (and some for Sortfolio , the Jobs Board , Writeboard , and Tadalist ). One of the most frequently asked questions we get is about how we handle mail delivery and ensure that emails are making it to people?s inboxes. Some statistics First, some numbers to give a little context to what we mean by ?a lot? of email. In the last 7 days, we?ve sent just shy of 16 million emails, with approximately 99.3% of them being accepted by the remote mail server. Email delivery rate is a little bit of a tough thing to benchmark, but by most accounts we?re doing pretty well at those rates (for comparison, the tiny fraction of email that we use a third party for has had between a 96.9% and 98.6% delivery rate for our most recent mailings). How we send email We send almost all of our outgoing email from our own servers in our data center located just outside of Chicago. We use Campaign Monitorfor our mailing lists, but all of the email that?s generated by our applications is sent from our own servers. We run three mail-relay servers running Postfix that take mail from our application and jobs servers and queue it for delivery to tens of thousands of remote mail servers, sending from about 15 unique IP addresses. How we monitor delivery We have developed some instrumentation so we can monitor how we are doing on getting messages to our users? inbox. Our applications tag each outgoing message with a unique header with a hashed value that gets recorded by the application before the message is sent. To gather delivery information, we run a script that tails the Postfix logs and extracts the delivery time and status for each piece of mail, including any error message received from the receiving mail server, and links it back to the hash the application stored. We store this information for 30 days so that our fantastic support team is able to help customers track down why they may not have received an email. We also send these statistics to our statsd server so they can be reported through our metrics dashboard. This ?live? and historical information can then be used by our operations team to check how we?re doing on aggregate mail delivery for each application. Why run your own mail servers? Over the last few years, at least a dozen services that specialize in sending email have popped up, ranging from the bare-bones to the full-service. Despite all these ?email as a service? startups we?ve kept our mail delivery in-house, for a couple of reasons: - *We don?t know anyone who could do it better.* With a 99.3% delivery rate, we haven?t found a third party provider that actually does better in a way they?re willing to guarantee. - *Setup hassle* Most of the third party services require that you verify each address that sends email by clicking a link that gets sent to that address. We send email from thousands and thousands of email addresses for our products, and the hassle of automatically registering and confirming them is significant. Automating the process still introduces unnecessary delivery delays. Given all this, why should we pay someone tens of thousands of dollars to do it? We shouldn?t, and we don?t. *Read more about how we keep delivery rates high after the jump?* How we keep our mail delivery rates up Lets be honest from the get-go. Mail delivery is more of an art than a science. We?ve found that even when you ?play by the rules?, there?s still times when a major provider will reject all your mail without notice. Usually it takes a couple emails to to the providers abuse address, and things get resolved. In spite of these ?out of our control? issues, we?ve found a few things help us keep delivery rates up: 1. *Constantly monitor spam blacklists .* We have a set of Nagios alerts that regularly check if we?re listed on any delivery blacklists, and whenever they go off we take whatever corrective action we need to get back off the blacklist. 2. Have valid SPF records. Don?t impersonate your users. When running a web app like Basecamp , which sends email that are generated by another user, it can be tempting to send the email from that user (e.g., so that a comment I wrote on Basecamp would appear to come from noah at 37signals dot com), which might make people feel more comfortable. Unfortunately, this is a surefire way to end up on spam lists, since you?ll likely be sending from an IP address that does not have the valid SPF records. And chances are, if the user?s domain does have an SPFrecord, it doesn?t include your application?s IP. 3. Sign the mail! DKIM and Domain Keys . Yahoo and Gmail both score signed email higher. 4. Dedicated and conditioned email sending IPs. 5. Configure reverse dns entries. Most of the ?big boys? won?t accept mail from your servers if your reverse dns entries don?t match. You might need your IP provider to help with setting up these records. 6. Enroll in feedback loops. We haven?t automated our parsing of feedback, but a daily / weekly review of feedback loop emails helps us know when there?s an unhappy user, or other problem. Too many complaints and you?ve got trouble. A problem we haven?t solved By far the biggest cause of failed email delivery we see is due to bad email addresses that were entered in to the system?problems like ? joe at gmal.com? or ?sue at yahooo.com?. By and large, these pass a regular expression check for email addresses, but aren?t actually valid addresses. There?s no perfect solution here, but we?ve been experimenting with checking for valid DNS records or actually attempting to connect to the mail server as part of the validation of an email address, and with notifying people within the application when we aren?t able to deliver mail to them. A few tools - MX Toolbox is a great site for doing a quick check on your mail servers and your customer?s mail servers. - Sender Score is really a marketing tool for Return Path, but it can be used to get insight about how some of the ?big boys? are scoring your sending IPs. - Postmark offers a web tool and APIto get the SpamAssassin score for a message, which can be helpful for identifying things you can improve to boost delivery rates. From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 9 22:07:42 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 13:07:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: <4FAA83D3.3020503@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >I've made the decision to abandon Mandriva and migrate to Centos. I have >mailman up an running (sort of) but now have the opposite problem. This >is a vanilla install of Apache so the only config file is mailman.conf >at this time. The cgi extension does not exist, in cgi-bin, on this >installation of mailman. However, apache is looking for .cgi. I >don't understand why this is a problem out of the box. Shouldn't a >vanilla install have this configured correctly? In any case what is the >correct way to configure this? Thanks. Please post /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf and /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py or /usr/lib/Mailman/mm_cfg.py (I think one will be a symlink to the other). -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dap1 at bellsouth.net Thu May 10 00:43:56 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 18:43:56 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FAAF32C.2010006@bellsouth.net> Thanks for the reply. I think you'll it pretty much vanilla. mm_py.cfg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # -*- python -*- # Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001,2002 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License # as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 # of the License, or (at your option) any later version. # # This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, # but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of # MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the # GNU General Public License for more details. # # You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License # along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software # Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. """This module contains your site-specific settings. From a brand new distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py. If you already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings you want. Mailman's installation procedure will never overwrite your mm_cfg.py file. The complete set of distributed defaults, with documentation, are in the file Defaults.py. In mm_cfg.py, override only those you want to change, after the from Defaults import * line (see below). Note that these are just default settings; many can be overridden via the administrator and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis. """ ############################################### # Here's where we get the distributed defaults. from Defaults import * import pwd, grp ################################################## # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line. #ATTENTION: when you use SELinux, mailman might not #be able to recompile the configuration file #due to policy settings. If this is the case, #please run (as root) the supplied "mailman-update-cfg" script ############################################################## # Here's where we override shipped defaults with settings # # suitable for the RPM package. # MAILMAN_UID = pwd.getpwnam('mailman')[2] MAILMAN_GID = grp.getgrnam('mailman')[2] ############################################################## # Set URL and email domain names # # # Mailman needs to know about (at least) two fully-qualified domain # names (fqdn) # # 1) the hostname used in your urls (DEFAULT_URL_HOST) # 2) the hostname used in email addresses for your domain (DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) # # For example, if people visit your Mailman system with # "http://www.dom.ain/mailman" then your url fqdn is "www.dom.ain", # and if people send mail to your system via "yourlist at dom.ain" then # your email fqdn is "dom.ain". DEFAULT_URL_HOST controls the former, # and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST controls the latter. Mailman also needs to # know how to map from one to the other (this is especially important # if you're running with virtual domains). You use # "add_virtualhost(urlfqdn, emailfqdn)" to add new mappings. # Default to using the FQDN of machine mailman is running on. # If this is not correct for your installation delete the following 5 # lines that acquire the FQDN and manually edit the hosts instead. from socket import * try: fqdn = getfqdn() except: fqdn = 'mm_cfg_has_unknown_host_domains' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = fqdn DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = fqdn # Because we've overriden the virtual hosts above add_virtualhost # MUST be called after they have been defined. ############################################################## # Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . # # See Defaults.py for explanations of the values. # # Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg, but you # didn't find it above, it's probably in Defaults.py. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mailman.conf ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Directives for the mailman web interface Alias /pipermail/ "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/" ScriptAliasMatch ^/mailman/([^/]*)(.*)$ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/$1.cgi$2" # For the archives Options +FollowSymLinks Order allow,deny Allow from all ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 5/9/2012 4:07 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> I've made the decision to abandon Mandriva and migrate to Centos. I have >> mailman up an running (sort of) but now have the opposite problem. This >> is a vanilla install of Apache so the only config file is mailman.conf >> at this time. The cgi extension does not exist, in cgi-bin, on this >> installation of mailman. However, apache is looking for .cgi. I >> don't understand why this is a problem out of the box. Shouldn't a >> vanilla install have this configured correctly? In any case what is the >> correct way to configure this? Thanks. > > Please post /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf and /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py > or /usr/lib/Mailman/mm_cfg.py (I think one will be a symlink to the > other). > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 10 01:36:08 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 16:36:08 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: <4FAAF32C.2010006@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >mailman.conf > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------= >--------------------------------------------- ># Directives for the mailman web interface > >Alias /pipermail/ "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/" >ScriptAliasMatch ^/mailman/([^/]*)(.*)$ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/$1.cgi$2" Either remove the '.cgi' from the above line making it ScriptAliasMatch ^/mailman/([^/]*)(.*)$ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/$1$2" or remove the line completely and replace it with ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/" Now the real question is was that file part of the Centos (RedHat) Mailman package or was it residue from Mandriva. If you're sure it was part of the Centos rpm, file a bug report with whoever made the rpm. If not look for some Mailman config in /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf or some other included file. If you find other Mailman configuration, it may be correct so you maybe could just remove /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From misterbhatt at gmail.com Thu May 10 01:40:02 2012 From: misterbhatt at gmail.com (Amit Bhatt) Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 05:10:02 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] All mails do not reach to all users... References: <4F50E057F9C84E1D95F4B0000F630F68@amit> <4FA9BE4D.4030704@msapiro.net> Message-ID: So it means we have to do it every time when a new member join us? because such problem is faced by almost every member of our mailing list. Suppose I do send 20 messages a day, many of our subscriber get only 10 messages. Similarly, if some others send 20 messages, I and other subscribers get only a few messages, but not all 20. This is just for example. Thanks, amit Bhatt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Sapiro" To: "Amit Bhatt" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] All mails do not reach to all users... > On 5/8/2012 9:43 AM, Amit Bhatt wrote: >> >> I finally shifted to the new service provider >> and they are Internationally known as very good service provider and >> their mail delivery and other services seem to be working fine but >> the issue of non delivery of E-mails to some users still remain >> there. I have discussed this matter with other moderators of two >> different mailing list and they told me that they also confront the >> same issue some time. so what does it mean? Is this a bug on Mailman? >> Can we expect not to be happened in mailman 3 in the coming future? > > > No, it is not a bug in Mailman and it probably will be no different > under Mailman 3. > > You have to follow the mail through the various MTAs between your > Mailman server and the recipient server. > > Typically, you or your service provider will find a log message > indicating the original email message was accepted for delivery by the > recipient's ISP, but the recipient never gets the mail. At this point, > All you can do is provide the recipient with the full log message > containing timestamp and the receiving server's queue ID, and then the > recipient has to take this up with their ISP. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 10 02:01:03 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 17:01:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] All mails do not reach to all users... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Amit Bhatt wrote: >So it means we have to do it every time when a new member join us? because >such problem is faced by almost every member of our mailing list. >Suppose I do send 20 messages a day, many of our subscriber get only 10 >messages. Similarly, if some others send 20 messages, I and other >subscribers get only a few messages, but not all 20. This is just for >example. This is not a Mailman issue. It seems likely that your mail is triggering various ISPs spam filters based on its content. This can only be resolved by communicating with the ISPs involved. If you can convince them that your lists are confirmed opt-in (aka double opt-in) and that everyone on your lists have made an informed, affirmative decision to be on the list and that anyone can easily unsubscribe, some of them may whitelist you. No one said this was easy. Quite a few years ago, I was 'felt out' for my interest in working for an email list provider on a full time basis doing exactly this kind of liason with ISPs. I wasn't interested in any paid employment at the time and even if I had been, I wouldn't have been interested in that one. I can only imagine that the magnitude of this job has grown significantly since then. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dave at fiteyes.com Thu May 10 02:32:37 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 20:32:37 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] SPF MAIL FROM check failed: [MAIL_FROM] Message-ID: On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 4:01 PM, David wrote: > Re: Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery > > 1. Constantly monitor spam blacklists. We have a set of Nagios alerts that regularly check if we?re listed on any delivery blacklists, and whenever they go off we take whatever corrective action we need to get back off the blacklist. > 2. Have valid SPF records. Don?t impersonate your users. When running a web app like Basecamp, which sends email that are generated by another user, it can be tempting to send the email from that user (e.g., so that a comment I wrote on Basecamp would appear to come from noah at 37signals dot com), which might make people feel more comfortable. Unfortunately, this is a surefire way to end up on spam lists, since you?ll likely be sending from an IP address that does not have the valid SPF records. And chances are, if the user?s domain does have an SPF record, it doesn?t include your application?s IP. > 3. Sign the mail! DKIM and Domain Keys. Yahoo and Gmail both score signed email higher. > 4. Dedicated and conditioned email sending IPs. > 5. Configure reverse dns entries. Most of the ?big boys? won?t accept mail from your servers if your reverse dns entries don?t match. You might need your IP provider to help with setting up these records. > 6. Enroll in feedback loops. We haven?t automated our parsing of feedback, but a daily / weekly review of feedback loop emails helps us know when there?s an unhappy user, or other problem. Too many complaints and you?ve got trouble. I started by setting up an SPF record (#2 on the list above). However, shortly after setting it up, we got a bounce with this reason: SPF MAIL FROM check failed: [MAIL_FROM] I searched a bit and came across things like this: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.new-zealand.general/34245 But nothing I found answered my questions. Looking at the headers of the bounced message, I note: Received-SPF: pass (domain of lists.example.com designates 10.10.10.99 as permitted sender) X-Originating-IP: [10.10.10.99] That would seem to indicate things are OK, but maybe X-Originating-IP isn't the line I need to be looking at... I'm not sure what [MAIL_FROM] (in the SPF check failed line) matches in the email header. Also, I note: X-YahooFilteredBulk: 10.10.10.99 <-- what does "X-YahooFilteredBulk" mean? And there is another value for this field. X-Originating-IP: [76.21.140.158] These are the headers of the bounced message: Subject: Failure Notice Sorry, we were unable to deliver your message to the following address. : Remote host said: 550 5.7.1 SPF MAIL FROM check failed: [MAIL_FROM] --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Received: from [72.30.22.79] by nm1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2012 21:51:02 -0000 Received: from [68.142.200.224] by tm13.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2012 21:51:02 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.102] by t5.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2012 21:51:01 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1007.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2012 21:51:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 502900.95307.bm at omp1007.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Forwarded: from recipient at destination.com to recipient at destination.com.br Return-Path: X-YahooFilteredBulk: 10.10.10.99 Received-SPF: pass (domain of lists.example.com designates 10.10.10.99 as permitted sender) X-YMailISG: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx X-Originating-IP: [10.10.10.99] Authentication-Results: mta1017.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com from= lists.example.com; domainkeys=neutral (no sig); from=att.net; dkim=permerror (bad sig) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (EHLO localhost) (10.10.10.99) by mta1017.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; Wed, 09 May 2012 14:51:01 -0700 Received: from myhost.hostingprovider.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9CA1123AB; Wed, 9 May 2012 21:43:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Original-To: list at lists.example.com Delivered-To: list at lists.example.com Received: from fmailhost01.isp.att.net (fmailhost01.isp.att.net [204.127.217.101]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D84D123A4 for ; Wed, 9 May 2012 20:52:06 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; q=dns/txt; d=att.net; s=dkim01; i=member1 at domain.net; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1336596725; h=Content-Type: MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:To: From; yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Received: from homecomputer3 (c-76-21-140-158.hsd1.va.comcast.net[76.21.140.158]) by worldnet.att.net (frfwmhc01) with SMTP id <20120509205204H0100sdv2pe>; Wed, 9 May 2012 20:52:05 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [76.21.140.158] From: "Member One" To: "'Example Discussion'" References: < 13283191.1336591910177.JavaMail.root at wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: < 13283191.1336591910177.JavaMail.root at wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 16:52:07 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: xyxyzyzy Content-Language: en-us X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 09 May 2012 21:43:22 +0000 Subject: [Example Discussion 110] Re: Example Subject X-BeenThere: list at lists.example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: Example Discussion List-Id: Example Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4254722804560345795==" Errors-To: all-bounces at lists.example.com Sender: all-bounces at lists.example.com From dave at fiteyes.com Thu May 10 03:35:12 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 21:35:12 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message delivery and Logs Message-ID: > Ian Prietz wrote: > > > >We have multiple lists set up with our Mailman host. We have had some > >delivery issues recently. One of the new lists has had some real trouble getting the > >messages delivered. However, there are members of "LIST A" that are also > >member of the problem list, "LIST B". > > > might possibly be related to a recipient's > having list_a-bounces at example.com but not list_b-bounces at example.com > in her address book. > -- > Mark Sapiro Mark, In your response above, why did you specify that "list_a-bounces at example.com" should be added to the recipient's address book instead of "list_a at example.com"? From mailmanu-20100705 at billmail.scconsult.com Thu May 10 04:10:24 2012 From: mailmanu-20100705 at billmail.scconsult.com (Bill Cole) Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 22:10:24 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] SPF MAIL FROM check failed: [MAIL_FROM] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <105DA8EF-A0DE-4D62-B29B-6A9F99C1D1C3@billmail.scconsult.com> On 9 May 2012, at 20:32, David wrote: > On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 4:01 PM, David wrote: >> Re: Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery >> >> 1. Constantly monitor spam blacklists. We have a set of Nagios alerts > that regularly check if we?re listed on any delivery blacklists, and > whenever they go off we take whatever corrective action we need to get > back > off the blacklist. >> 2. Have valid SPF records. Don?t impersonate your users. When >> running a > web app like Basecamp, which sends email that are generated by another > user, it can be tempting to send the email from that user (e.g., so > that a > comment I wrote on Basecamp would appear to come from noah at > 37signals dot > com), which might make people feel more comfortable. Unfortunately, > this is > a surefire way to end up on spam lists, since you?ll likely be > sending from > an IP address that does not have the valid SPF records. And chances > are, if > the user?s domain does have an SPF record, it doesn?t include your > application?s IP. >> 3. Sign the mail! DKIM and Domain Keys. Yahoo and Gmail both score >> signed > email higher. >> 4. Dedicated and conditioned email sending IPs. >> 5. Configure reverse dns entries. Most of the ?big boys? won?t >> accept > mail from your servers if your reverse dns entries don?t match. You > might > need your IP provider to help with setting up these records. >> 6. Enroll in feedback loops. We haven?t automated our parsing of > feedback, but a daily / weekly review of feedback loop emails helps us > know > when there?s an unhappy user, or other problem. Too many complaints > and > you?ve got trouble. Something about how you are composing mail is resulting in an ugly mess on the receiving side, with your quoting completely broken. See above as an example. Perhaps sending as HTML and having it whacked by Mailman... > I started by setting up an SPF record (#2 on the list above). However, > shortly after setting it up, we got a bounce with this reason: > > SPF MAIL FROM check failed: [MAIL_FROM] > > I searched a bit and came across things like this: > http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.new-zealand.general/34245 > But nothing I found answered my questions. > > Looking at the headers of the bounced message, I note: > > Received-SPF: pass (domain of lists.example.com designates 10.10.10.99 > as > permitted sender) > X-Originating-IP: [10.10.10.99] > > That would seem to indicate things are OK, but maybe X-Originating-IP > isn't > the line I need to be looking at... I'm not sure what [MAIL_FROM] (in > the > SPF check failed line) matches in the email header. This is probably running off the topical edge of the Mailman-Users list, but I'll be brief. Before publishing an SPF record, you should understand what SPF is and how it works. If you don't understand it, don't try to use it. SPF is a weak but sometimes useful mechanism that allows a SMTP server to check whether a given SMTP envelope sender address (a.k.a. "Return-Path" or "MAIL_FROM" or "bounce address") should be trusted as valid when given by the particular IP address of an SMTP client, using DNS records. In most cases it is only applied to the domain part of an address. There's not much else to say about your specific problem, since you seem to have obfuscated everything of significance about the specific message with a problem. For example, and most importantly, "lists.example.com" is bogus. The SPF coherency to check is between the outbound IP address of whatever machine (at Yahoo??? ugh.) generated that bounce and the domain you've obfuscated as lists.example.com. Your SPF record(s) need to the reality of where mail systems to whom you are not known will be receiving your mail from, not the original source of your mail. So if you have made the inexplicable decision to route your mail out via Yahoo, you need to consult with Yahoo about how to set up your SPF record(s). > Also, I note: > > X-YahooFilteredBulk: 10.10.10.99 <-- what does "X-YahooFilteredBulk" > mean? Ask Yahoo. Any email header that starts with "X-" is non-standard and could mean anything or nothing. From dap1 at bellsouth.net Thu May 10 04:22:24 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 22:22:24 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb Me Tried to Update Mandriva (Again) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FAB2660.4070105@bellsouth.net> Yep, I copied the config from my Mandriva installation thinking they would be compatible. I was wrong and restoring the default fixed it. Thanks. On 5/9/2012 7:36 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> mailman.conf >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------= >> --------------------------------------------- >> # Directives for the mailman web interface >> >> Alias /pipermail/ "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/" >> ScriptAliasMatch ^/mailman/([^/]*)(.*)$ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/$1.cgi$2" > > Either remove the '.cgi' from the above line making it > > ScriptAliasMatch ^/mailman/([^/]*)(.*)$ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/$1$2" > > or remove the line completely and replace it with > > ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/" > > > Now the real question is was that file part of the Centos (RedHat) > Mailman package or was it residue from Mandriva. > > If you're sure it was part of the Centos rpm, file a bug report with > whoever made the rpm. > > If not look for some Mailman config in /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf or > some other included file. If you find other Mailman configuration, it > may be correct so you maybe could just remove > /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf. > From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 10 07:00:26 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 22:00:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message delivery and Logs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David wrote: > >Mark, In your response above, why did you specify that "list_a-bounces >at example.com" should be added to the recipient's address book >instead of "list_a at example.com"? list-a at example.com or list-b at example.com would never be the "sender" of the mail from the list so 'whitelisting' it by adding it to your address book would do nothing. List-a mail is sent with an envelope from list-a-bounces at example.com and similarly for list-b so 'whitelisting' that address can help. If one needs to 'whitelist' the From: address of the post, that is generally not possible as it is normally the poster's address and that could be any list member or maybe even a non-member. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 10 07:32:07 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 22:32:07 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] SPF MAIL FROM check failed: [MAIL_FROM] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David wrote: > >I started by setting up an SPF record (#2 on the list above). However, >shortly after setting it up, we got a bounce with this reason: > >SPF MAIL FROM check failed: [MAIL_FROM] [...] > >Looking at the headers of the bounced message, I note: > >Received-SPF: pass (domain of lists.example.com designates 10.10.10.99 as >permitted sender) >X-Originating-IP: [10.10.10.99] That line says that Yahoo checked your SPF when it received the mail from you and your lists.example.com SPF designated your IP as a permitted sender so it was OK. However, the message was then relayed by Yahoo to the recipient's MX and the recipient's MX checked the domain of the envelope sender (still lists.example.com) and it's SPF did not designate nm1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com which is the serve from which it received the mail as a permitted or at least neutral sender, so the recipients MX refused the mail. Your choices are: 1) don't publish SPF 2) don't relay via Yahoo 3) designate ?all in your domain's SPF (maybe others, I'm not an SPF expert) [...] >Also, I note: > >X-YahooFilteredBulk: 10.10.10.99 <-- what does "X-YahooFilteredBulk" mean? Ask Yahoo. It's their non-standard (private) header. >And there is another value for this field. >X-Originating-IP: [76.21.140.158] It appears that the mail originated at your "homecomputer3" via a comcast ip and was relayed via worldnet.att.net which noted that it originated from the comcast IP 76.21.140.158. Subsequently, it was delivered to list at lists.example.com at some server variously reported as 'localhost', 127.0.0.1 (Generally the IP of 'localhost'), myhost.hostingprovider.com (aka the local network IP 10.10.10.99), and mta1017.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com all of which appear to be tthe same actual machine, and subsequently it was relayed via another Yahoo server which checked the SPF for lists,example.com and found it designated 10.10.10.99 as a premitted sender. >These are the headers of the bounced message: > >Subject: Failure Notice >Sorry, we were unable to deliver your message to the following address. > >: >Remote host said: 550 5.7.1 SPF MAIL FROM check failed: [MAIL_FROM] > >--- Below this line is a copy of the message. > >Received: from [72.30.22.79] by nm1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; >09 May 2012 21:51:02 -0000 >Received: from [68.142.200.224] by tm13.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with >NNFMP; 09 May 2012 21:51:02 -0000 >Received: from [66.94.237.102] by t5.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 >May 2012 21:51:01 -0000 >Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1007.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; >09 May 2012 21:51:01 -0000 >X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 >X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 502900.95307.bm at omp1007.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com >X-Yahoo-Forwarded: from recipient at destination.com to >recipient at destination.com.br >Return-Path: >X-YahooFilteredBulk: 10.10.10.99 >Received-SPF: pass (domain of lists.example.com designates 10.10.10.99 as >permitted sender) >X-YMailISG: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >X-Originating-IP: [10.10.10.99] >Authentication-Results: mta1017.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com from=3D >lists.example.com; domainkeys=3Dneutral (no sig); from=3Datt.net; >dkim=3Dpermerror (bad sig) >Received: from 127.0.0.1 (EHLO localhost) (10.10.10.99) > by mta1017.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; Wed, 09 May 2012 14:51:01 >-0700 >Received: from myhost.hostingprovider.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9CA1123AB; > Wed, 9 May 2012 21:43:23 +0000 (UTC) >X-Original-To: list at lists.example.com >Delivered-To: list at lists.example.com >Received: from fmailhost01.isp.att.net (fmailhost01.isp.att.net > [204.127.217.101]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D84D123A4 > for ; Wed, 9 May 2012 20:52:06 +0000 (UTC) >DKIM-Signature: v=3D1; q=3Ddns/txt; d=3Datt.net; s=3Ddkim01; i=3Dmember1 at do= >main.net; > a=3Drsa-sha256; c=3Drelaxed/relaxed; t=3D1336596725; h=3DContent-Type: > MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:To: > From; yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy >Received: from homecomputer3 > (c-76-21-140-158.hsd1.va.comcast.net[76.21.140.158]) > by worldnet.att.net (frfwmhc01) with SMTP > id <20120509205204H0100sdv2pe>; Wed, 9 May 2012 20:52:05 +0000 >X-Originating-IP: [76.21.140.158] >From: "Member One" >To: "'Example Discussion'" >References: < >13283191.1336591910177.JavaMail.root at wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >In-Reply-To: < >13283191.1336591910177.JavaMail.root at wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 16:52:07 -0400 >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 >Thread-Index: xyxyzyzy >Content-Language: en-us >X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 09 May 2012 21:43:22 +0000 >Subject: [Example Discussion 110] Re: Example Subject >X-BeenThere: list at lists.example.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 >Precedence: list >Reply-To: Example Discussion >List-Id: Example Discussion >List-Unsubscribe: , > >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: , > >Content-Type: multipart/mixed; >boundary=3D"=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D425472280456034579= >5=3D=3D" >Errors-To: all-bounces at lists.example.com >Sender: all-bounces at lists.example.com -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bsfinkel at att.net Thu May 10 22:04:14 2012 From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S, Finkel) Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:04:14 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Bounce Processing In-Reply-To: <050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E505E95DC1@mail1.informs.org> References: <050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E505E4B539@mail1.informs.org> <4FA9AB4C.8020502@msapiro.net> <050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E505E95DC1@mail1.informs.org> Message-ID: <4FAC1F3E.9070309@att.net> On 5/9/2012 7:17 AM, Futchko, Rose wrote: > Hello, > > Yes, I meant 2.1.5 -- thank you. > > This is the additional information: > > >>>> 5/7/2012 9:58 AM>>> > This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: > > List: Listname > Member: email address > Action: Subscription disabled. > Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. > > > > The triggering bounce notice is attached below. > > Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at > mailman at list.informs.org. > > Received: from [64.56.46.224] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by mail.informs.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id > q47Dm58n027853; > Mon, 7 May 2012 09:50:13 -0400 > X-SenderID: Sendmail Sender-ID Filter v0.2.14 mail.informs.org > q47Dm58n027853 > Authentication-Results: mail.informs.org > sender=transci-logistics-society-bounces at list.informs.org; > sender-id=neutral; spf=neutral > X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.2.1 mail.informs.org q47Dm58n027853 > DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=informs.org; > s=iol-mail; > t=1336398721; bh=nBoB7gLpyON0aTfYk/86AG+8qdc=; > h=Authentication-Results:Authentication-Results:From:To:Date: > Message-ID:Accept-Language:acceptlanguage:Subject:Sender; > b=DDR/BS > > 5R1Rg1ZFSefHd9sxFAzBL//DzEFLlSzj8ugS0fU0YaIJBnBo9/0tKK8eAKthApq60EL > > NAV4j5wAFhn+5wnJcTRvqfRCsGH4i0ZGjFK3E4cFNFQeylcGs3po6mK4o7ChJn+L9Rq > UqaqYnbP8XM+y7nNLIv53AphKDs0QVU= > Received: from mail.informs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by mail.informs.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q47C8hZH014190 > (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 > verify=NO); > Mon, 7 May 2012 08:08:43 -0400 > X-SenderID: Sendmail Sender-ID Filter v0.2.14 mail.informs.org > q47C8hZH014190 > Authentication-Results: mail.informs.org from=elisemh at umd.edu; > sender-id=neutral; spf=neutral > Received: (from root at localhost) > by mail.informs.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id q47C8hP3014187; > Mon, 7 May 2012 08:08:43 -0400 > Received: from sdc-mx1.umd.edu (sdc-mx1.umd.edu [128.8.162.150]) > by mail.informs.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id > q47C8f8l014174; > Mon, 7 May 2012 08:08:41 -0400 > X-SenderID: Sendmail Sender-ID Filter v0.2.14 mail.informs.org > q47C8f8l014174 > Authentication-Results: mail.informs.org from=elisemh at umd.edu; > sender-id=neutral; spf=neutral > X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true > X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: > ArsCAKC6p0+ACAzogWdsb2JhbABEgkanDwGDEYZTAQEWJieCEAMFIAgBXQElAQEBCgoUBRAP > DCYBBAERAQgGDId0C7EkiQmQPGMEkBoBiS2PfQ > Received: from oitpmxht01.umd.edu (HELO exch.mail.umd.edu) > ([128.8.12.232]) > by sdc-mx1.umd.edu with ESMTP; 07 May 2012 08:08:40 -0400 > Received: from oitmxcms01vi.AD.UMD.EDU ([169.254.1.122]) by > OITPMXHT01.AD.UMD.EDU ([128.8.12.232]) with mapi; > Mon, 7 May 2012 08:08:40 -0400 > From: Elise Miller-Hooks > To: "transci-logistics-section at list.informs.org" > , > "transci-logistics-society at list.informs.org" > > Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 08:08:37 -0400 > Thread-Topic: A great loss for the TSL Society > Thread-Index: Ac0sSaLy16gsDbusR+ShPb1Nsm9MIA== > Message-ID: > <0D78E3BEE1F5C04CA3641F214EE381AD01A4EBA4801A at OITMXCMS01VI.AD.UMD.EDU> > Accept-Language: en-US > Content-Language: en-US > X-MS-Has-Attach: yes > X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: > acceptlanguage: en-US > MIME-Version: 1.0 > X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=2.9 > tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, > RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED shortcircuit=no autolearn=unavailable > version=3.2.5 > X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on > mail.informs.org > X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 07 May 2012 09:48:04 -0400 > Cc: > Subject: [Transci-logistics-society] A great loss for the TSL Society > X-BeenThere: transci-logistics-society at list.informs.org > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 > Precedence: list > List-Id: Transportation Science and Logistics Society of INFORMS > > List-Unsubscribe: > , > > scribe> > List-Archive: > > List-Post: > List-Help: > > List-Subscribe: > , > > ribe> > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1216496403==" > Sender: transci-logistics-society-bounces at list.informs.org > Errors-To: transci-logistics-society-bounces at list.informs.org > > Return-path:<> > Received: from mail.informs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by mail.informs.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q47ER99A006791 > (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 > verify=NO) > for > ; > Mon, 7 May 2012 10:27:10 -0400 > X-SenderID: Sendmail Sender-ID Filter v0.2.14 mail.informs.org > q47ER99A006791 > Authentication-Results: mail.informs.org > from=MAILER-DAEMON at mail.informs.org; > sender-id=neutral; spf=neutral > X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.2.1 mail.informs.org q47ER99A006791 > DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=informs.org; > s=iol-mail; > t=1336400836; bh=r/uqa39i9pKtHAwopuBeggH2Cus=; h=Date:From: > Message-Id:To:Subject:Auto-Submitted; > b=rwpTPxmFKIgMnHAesV2Zf6JDRH > > BdYIdKlntNcVfBWoTCzbsdoC9xR0fQ1oIehAPHZKF8NBIaVR2ENgw+LxqIRlDSv6VLi > > NvjEkjUFOt9vOjH1aoXj3Bz8h238kx8JeOaOaH6QW9EaqqsVis0cLq9YwVD01EwoeCy > FS9CNF2l9xU= > Received: (from root at localhost) > by mail.informs.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id q47ER9dQ006788 > for transci-logistics-society-bounces at list.informs.org.procmail; > Mon, 7 May 2012 10:27:09 -0400 > Received: from localhost (localhost) > by mail.informs.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) id q47ER58i028269; > Mon, 7 May 2012 10:27:05 -0400 > Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:27:05 -0400 > From: Mail Delivery Subsystem > Message-Id:<201205071427.q47ER58i028269 at mail.informs.org> > To: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; > boundary="q47ER58i028269.1336400825/mail.informs.org" > Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) > X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=2.9 > tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 > shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 > X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on > mail.informs.org > > > > Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.informs.org > Received-From-MTA: DNS; localhost > Arrival-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 09:50:13 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; kenneth.kuhn at canterbury.ac.nz > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.1 > Remote-MTA: DNS; mx1.canterbury.ac.nz > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.1.1 unknown or illegal > user:kenneth.kuhn at canterbury.ac.nz > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 09:53:26 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; martin.savelsbergh at csiro.au > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.1 > Remote-MTA: DNS; act-mx.csiro.au > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 #5.1.0 Address rejected. > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 09:54:06 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; dlagana at deis.unica.it > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.2 > Remote-MTA: DNS; deis.unica.it > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Host unknown > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 09:54:24 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; muhammad.mazahir-6 at etudiants.ensam.eu > Action: failed > Status: 5.0.0 > Remote-MTA: DNS; mail-in.ensam.eu > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 511 Destinataire inconnu - Recipient unknown > -(muhammad.mazahir-6 at etudiants.ensam.eu) > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 09:57:39 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; kroodbergen at fac.fbk.eur.nl > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.1 > Remote-MTA: DNS; mercury.fbk.eur.nl > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP;550 5.1.1: Recipient > addressrejected: User unknown > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 09:57:43 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; daduna at fhwr-berlin.de > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.2 > Remote-MTA: DNS; fhwr-berlin.de > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Host unknown > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 09:57:58 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; a.strauss at lancaster.ac.uk > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.1 > Remote-MTA: DNS; whobblebury.lancs.ac.uk > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Invalid recipient address > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:04:41 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; eduardo.soares at latop.com.br > Action: failed > Status: 5.7.1 > Remote-MTA: DNS; mx5.infolink.com.br > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 554 > 5.7.1<64-56-46-224.isp.comcastbusiness.net[64.56.46.224]>: Clienthost > rejected: =myspam gold= We don't accept Direct Deliveryfrom > Dial-up/DSL/CABLE/Wireless/3G networks. If you are NOTdoing E-mail > Marketing/Opt-in/Opt-out/SPAM/UCE (which areforbidden here), please > contact abuse at infolink.com.br with thecomplete ERROR MESSAGE to be > analized. > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:04:46 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; brka at man.dtu.dk > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.1 > Remote-MTA: DNS; filter2.ait.dtu.dk > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP;550 5.1.1... Sorry, no mailbox > here by thatname or mailbox is over quota > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:06:30 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; raist at man.dtu.dk > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.1 > Remote-MTA: DNS; filter2.ait.dtu.dk > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP;550 5.1.1... Sorry, no mailbox > here bythat name or mailbox is over quota > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:06:30 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; liebchen at math.tu-berlin.de > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.1 > Remote-MTA: DNS; mail.tu-berlin.de > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Recipient verify failed > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:06:56 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; k.akartunali at ms.unimelb.edu.au > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.1 > Remote-MTA: DNS; puffer.ms.unimelb.edu.au > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550: Recipient > addressrejected: User unknown in local recipient table > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:10:15 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; combste at ornl.gov > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.1 > Remote-MTA: DNS; mta02.ornl.gov > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 #5.1.0 Address rejected. > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:15:07 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; jlancaster at qatarairways.com.qa > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.1 > Remote-MTA: DNS; mx1.qatarairways.com.qa > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 #5.1.0 Address rejected. > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:15:50 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; schinaso at transmartconsulting.gr > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.2 > Remote-MTA: DNS; transmartconsulting.gr > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Host unknown > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:19:19 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; kwanghun.chung at uclouvain.be > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.1 > Remote-MTA: DNS; smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP;550 5.1.1: Recipient > addressrejected: unknown address > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:21:47 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; sehernan at uniandes.edu.co > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.1 > Remote-MTA: DNS; avmx02.uniandes.edu.co > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.1.1 Recipient address rejected: User > unknown > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:24:44 -0400 > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; jshan at ust.hk > Action: failed > Status: 5.3.0 > Remote-MTA: DNS; mx1.ust.hk > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 5.3.0... Recipient address no > longerexists > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:25:27 -0400 > > > The original message was received at Mon, 7 May 2012 09:50:13 -0400 from > localhost [127.0.0.1] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > (reason: 550 5.1.1 unknown or illegal user: > kenneth.kuhn at canterbury.ac.nz) > (reason: 550 #5.1.0 Address rejected.) > (reason: 550 Host unknown) > > (reason: 511 Destinataire inconnu - Recipient unknown - > (muhammad.mazahir-6 at etudiants.ensam.eu)) > > (reason: 550 5.1.1: Recipient address > rejected: User unknown) > (reason: 550 Host unknown) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 7:25 PM > To: Futchko, Rose > Cc: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help with Bounce Processing > > On 5/7/2012 2:17 PM, Futchko, Rose wrote: > >> We are using Mailman 2.15 and have an unusual problem that I was >> hoping that someone can help me with. > > There is no 2.15. Do you mean 2.1.5? > > >> We have close to 109 lists running >> successfully, however there are times when bounce processing sends the >> following message (over 100 times) in the span of a few hours to one >> user/subscriber to the list. They are not the admin: >> >> >> >> This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: > > Without seeing the complete message with all headers, it is virtually > impossible to guess what may be happening. Can you post a complete > message example with all headers? > I have looked at the rejection mail, and there are things that I do not understand; maybe critical information has been modified/obscured. It appears that a piece of mail was sent: From: Elise Miller-Hooks To: "transci-logistics-sect... at list.informs.org" , "transci-logistics-soci... at list.informs.org" Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 08:08:37 -0400 The mail that was sent appears to be a "rejection message" from some mail that was sent to a large number of invalid addresses. I am not sure why the sender sent the mail to two mailing lists. If the lists are archived, look at the archives to see what the original mail was. In my experience with Mailman, mail sent to a list would result in undeliverables returned back to the LISTNAME-bounce address, and Mailman would process those undeliverables. If the list is so-configured, then the last bounce (that causes a subscriber's bounce score to reach its limit) will be sent to the list owner(s). With no knowledge of your lists, I do not know if this sender, Elise Miller-Hooks, is a list owner and by mistake re-sent a rejection message back to the list. --Barry Finkel From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 10 22:28:56 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 13:28:56 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David wrote: > >The 37Signals article caught my attention. I would enjoy knowing others's >thoughts about how to apply these (or other) suggestions to Mailman. > >It seems to me that Mailman provides at least some of the intelligence (via >logs) that 37Signals custom developed on top of Postfix. Am I right? The >core suggestions seem to be universalL SPF records, DKIM signing, reverse >DNS entries, etc.. (And, btw, I don't yet know how to implement any of >those things except SPF records.) DKIM signing is normally done in an outgoing MTA. SPF and reverse DNS are DNS things, not Mailman. In general, best practices for Mailman servers are the same as best practices for sending mail in general. Mailman does have the ability to remove DKIM signatures from incoming mail where Mailman might break these signatures by, e.g., prefixing Subject: headers and/or adding list header or footer information to message bodies, but this is controversial. Also, DKIM signing of outgoing list mail is controversial because by doing so, you are saying that your server vouches for the legitimacy of this mail when, in fact, it may be spam that made it through your list. Read some of the hits returned by . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From ma.76 at osu.edu Fri May 11 01:19:12 2012 From: ma.76 at osu.edu (Ma, Yuan) Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 23:19:12 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to remove a member of a mailing list with a command? Message-ID: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD6724AD61@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> Hi, The web interface does not work. I am wondering how to remove a member of a mailing list with a command? Thank you very much in advance. Yuan From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 11 01:40:22 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 16:40:22 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?utf-8?q?how_to_remove_a_member_of_a_mailing_lis?= =?utf-8?q?t_with_a=09command=3F?= In-Reply-To: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD6724AD61@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> References: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD6724AD61@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <32901737-c040-4050-9d23-287f4dd36696@email.android.com> "Ma, Yuan" wrote: >Hi, > >The web interface does not work. >I am wondering how to remove a member of a mailing list with a command? > >Thank you very much in advance. > >Yuan >------------------------------------------------------ >Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >Searchable Archives: >http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >Unsubscribe: >http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mark%40msapiro.net Mailman's bin/remove_members -- Mark Sapiro Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From alain.lavoie at ec.gc.ca Thu May 10 22:40:44 2012 From: alain.lavoie at ec.gc.ca (Alain Lavoie) Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 16:40:44 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Owner, moderator and sender doesn't receive notification Message-ID: <4FAC27CC.7010801@ec.gc.ca> Hello, I have 2 servers with Ubuntu 10.04 and mailman 2.1.13-1ubuntu0.2 Both servers have the same problem, the owner and/or the moderator of the list don't receive notification of pending request. Also the sender does not receive a notification saying his email was hold. Each server hosts about 330 lists. It is not an individual configuration but it's on all of them. As administrator, I verified the option admin_immed_notify was at yes. To be sure I have everything set correctly, I created my own mailing list with my email, etc. and it is not working. I can't see anything in the postfix log or mailman logs. The only clue I have is when I start mailman I have this: # /etc/init.d/mailman start close failed in file object destructor: Error in sys.excepthook: Original exception was: * Starting Mailman master qrunner mailmanctl # Any help would be very appreciated! Regards! _______________________ Alain Lavoie From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 11 08:14:29 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 23:14:29 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Owner, moderator and sender doesn't receive notification In-Reply-To: <4FAC27CC.7010801@ec.gc.ca> Message-ID: Alain Lavoie wrote: > > I have 2 servers with Ubuntu 10.04 and mailman 2.1.13-1ubuntu0.2 Please see the FAQ at . >Both servers have the same problem, the owner and/or the moderator of the >list don't receive notification of pending request. Also the sender does >not receive >a notification saying his email was hold. Each server hosts about 330 lists. >It is not an individual configuration but it's on all of them. > > As administrator, I verified the option admin_immed_notify was at >yes. To be >sure I have everything set correctly, I created my own mailing list with >my email, etc. >and it is not working. I can't see anything in the postfix log or >mailman logs. > > The only clue I have is when I start mailman I have this: > ># /etc/init.d/mailman start >close failed in file object destructor: >Error in sys.excepthook: > >Original exception was: > * Starting Mailman master qrunner mailmanctl ># > > Any help would be very appreciated! > Regards! Have you tried Ubuntu or Debian support resources for this issue? I have no idea what's going on. It might help if you ran "bin/mailmanctl start" directly to start Mailman and reported the full traceback from any exceptions. One guess is that possibly due to this error whatever it is, not all the qrunners get started. In particular, if VirginRunner isn't running, all Mailman generated notices will remain queued in qfiles/virgin and will not be sent. Check Mailman's qrunner log and see sec. 6.b. and 8. of the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Fri May 11 09:29:41 2012 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 09:29:41 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120511072941.GA7617@charite.de> > Mailman does have the ability to remove DKIM signatures from incoming > mail where Mailman might break these signatures by, e.g., prefixing > Subject: headers and/or adding list header or footer information to > message bodies, but this is controversial. Also, DKIM signing of > outgoing list mail is controversial because by doing so, you are > saying that your server vouches for the legitimacy of this mail when, > in fact, it may be spam that made it through your list. On the other hand we're getting spam reports for list mails (not spam!) our users sent to a list. But since it's not spam we cannot actually do anything about those mails while the LIST ADMIN could easily unsubscribe the people reporting the spam. -- Ralf Hildebrandt Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de Campus Benjamin Franklin http://www.charite.de Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155 From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Fri May 11 10:10:36 2012 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 11:10:36 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery In-Reply-To: <20120511072941.GA7617@charite.de> References: <20120511072941.GA7617@charite.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 May 2012, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote: > On the other hand we're getting spam reports for list mails (not > spam!) our users sent to a list. But since it's not spam we cannot > actually do anything about those mails while the LIST ADMIN could > easily unsubscribe the people reporting the spam. Except the list admin may not know about this. Some people are just too lazy to unsubscribe from a list they double-opted into and report the mail as spam. I had a situation where the organisation I was working for was having all mail sent from its server being completely blocked by a large American ISP, all on the back of one person's spam reports. They wouldn't even tell us what the address was. Fortunately I was able to figure out the address and the list from the headers of a message and remove the person in question. I'm not sure that I'dve been able to do this with a Mailman message, they were using inferior (IMHO) list software then. The only way we could avoid this happening again was to subscribe to their feedback loop. Then we would receive the spam reports instead of them being immediately acted upon, under the understanding that we would act on them instead. Of course, everyone has their own feedback loop, and if you care about getting mail through to big providers, you'll probably need to subscribe to all their feedback loops. A good page with info on this and other issues is http://www.spamhaus.org/faq/section/ISP%20Spam%20Issues HTH, Geoff. From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Fri May 11 11:34:57 2012 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 11:34:57 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery In-Reply-To: References: <20120511072941.GA7617@charite.de> Message-ID: <20120511093457.GK7617@charite.de> * Geoff Shang : > On Fri, 11 May 2012, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote: > > >On the other hand we're getting spam reports for list mails (not > >spam!) our users sent to a list. But since it's not spam we cannot > >actually do anything about those mails while the LIST ADMIN could > >easily unsubscribe the people reporting the spam. > > Except the list admin may not know about this. Yes, he doesn't know, since he's never notified. We're getting the feedback-loop mails. > Some people are just too lazy to unsubscribe from a list they > double-opted into and report the mail as spam. Indeed! > I had a situation where the organisation I was working for was having > all mail sent from its server being completely blocked by a large > American ISP, all on the back of one person's spam reports. Same here. > They wouldn't even tell us what the address was. Fortunately I was > able to figure out the address and the list from the headers of a > message and remove the person in question. I'm not sure that I'dve > been able to do this with a Mailman message, they were using inferior > (IMHO) list software then. > > The only way we could avoid this happening again was to subscribe to > their feedback loop. Then we would receive the spam reports instead > of them being immediately acted upon, under the understanding that we > would act on them instead. Exactly. > Of course, everyone has their own feedback loop, and if you care > about getting mail through to big providers, you'll probably need to > subscribe to all their feedback loops. Oh yes. -- Ralf Hildebrandt Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de Campus Benjamin Franklin http://www.charite.de Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155 From attila at kinali.ch Fri May 11 12:06:38 2012 From: attila at kinali.ch (Attila Kinali) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 12:06:38 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120511120638.f09ced8fbaab77be5f130d7a@kinali.ch> On Wed, 9 May 2012 16:01:57 -0400 David wrote: > It seems to me that Mailman provides at least some of the intelligence (via > logs) that 37Signals custom developed on top of Postfix. Am I right? The > core suggestions seem to be universalL SPF records, DKIM signing, reverse > DNS entries, etc.. (And, btw, I don't yet know how to implement any of > those things except SPF records.) Not any more than others have done years ago. Getting to >99.9% delivery for a mailinglist is not difficult. Unless you use it to manage your newsletter distribution. The trick is: Do not force people onto your mailinglist. Make it a list were most people are tech-savy (helps a lot to keep problems down and if there are any, you get usefull reports) and make sure nobody is using yahoo. Oh and weed out dead addresses early... For any mailinglist that runs more than a couple of weeks, you'll have somewhere between 0.1% and 1% dead addresses per month. The rest is really just configuring your MTA correctly and keeping an eye on it. Attila Kinali -- The trouble with you, Shev, is you don't say anything until you've saved up a whole truckload of damned heavy brick arguments and then you dump them all out and never look at the bleeding body mangled beneath the heap -- Tirin, The Dispossessed, U. Le Guin From dap1 at bellsouth.net Fri May 11 17:07:34 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 11:07:34 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration Problem - No Publicly Advertised Lists Message-ID: <4FAD2B36.7000800@bellsouth.net> After following the instructions for migrating mailman to a new server (http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/How+do+I+move+a+list+to+a+different+server-Mailman+installation.), I am having trouble with the listinfo page saying there are no publicly advertised lists. I ran 'withlist' and the output appeared normal. Everything else seems to be working other than managing lists via the web pages. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From dave at fiteyes.com Fri May 11 17:32:21 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 11:32:21 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery In-Reply-To: <20120511120638.f09ced8fbaab77be5f130d7a@kinali.ch> References: <20120511120638.f09ced8fbaab77be5f130d7a@kinali.ch> Message-ID: On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 6:06 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: > > Getting to >99.9% delivery for a mailinglist is not difficult. Unless you > use it to manage your newsletter distribution. > > The trick is: Do not force people onto your mailinglist. Make it a list > were most people are tech-savy (helps a lot to keep problems down and > if there are any, you get usefull reports) and make sure nobody is using > yahoo. > Haha. Our demographics are older people who are not tech savvy (some don't even know what a right mouse button click does) and a lot of them still like Yahoo. From dave at fiteyes.com Fri May 11 17:52:44 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 11:52:44 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration Problem - No Publicly Advertised Lists In-Reply-To: <4FAD2B36.7000800@bellsouth.net> References: <4FAD2B36.7000800@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote: > After following the instructions for migrating mailman to a new server > ( > http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/How+do+I+move+a+list+to+a+different+server-Mailman+installation. > ), > I am having trouble with the listinfo page saying there are no publicly > advertised lists. I ran 'withlist' and the output appeared normal. > Everything else seems to be working other than managing lists via the > web pages. > What is the output of the command below? ls -la /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/ (assuming your mailman install is located at /var/lib) From dap1 at bellsouth.net Fri May 11 18:17:18 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 12:17:18 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration Problem - No Publicly Advertised Lists In-Reply-To: References: <4FAD2B36.7000800@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <4FAD3B8E.7010905@bellsouth.net> Hi David, Looks right to me. drwxrwsr-x. 2 mailman mailman 4096 May 9 09:36 . drwxrwsr-x. 4 mailman mailman 4096 May 9 08:21 .. lrwxrwxrwx. 1 mailman mailman 44 May 9 09:36 cufsalumni -> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/cufsalumni lrwxrwxrwx. 1 mailman mailman 39 May 9 09:36 dapmm -> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/dapmm lrwxrwxrwx. 1 mailman mailman 41 May 9 09:36 mailman -> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailma On 5/11/2012 11:52 AM, David wrote: > On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Dennis Putnam > wrote: > > After following the instructions for migrating mailman to a new server > (http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/How+do+I+move+a+list+to+a+different+server-Mailman+installation.), > I am having trouble with the listinfo page saying there are no > publicly > advertised lists. I ran 'withlist' and the output appeared normal. > Everything else seems to be working other than managing lists via the > web pages. > > > What is the output of the command below? > > ls -la /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/ > > (assuming your mailman install is located at /var/lib) > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From dave at fiteyes.com Fri May 11 18:26:25 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 12:26:25 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration Problem - No Publicly Advertised Lists In-Reply-To: <4FAD3B8E.7010905@bellsouth.net> References: <4FAD2B36.7000800@bellsouth.net> <4FAD3B8E.7010905@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Dennis Putnam wrote: > Hi David, > > Looks right to me. > > drwxrwsr-x. 2 mailman mailman 4096 May 9 09:36 . > drwxrwsr-x. 4 mailman mailman 4096 May 9 08:21 .. > lrwxrwxrwx. 1 mailman mailman 44 May 9 09:36 cufsalumni -> > /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/cufsalumni > lrwxrwxrwx. 1 mailman mailman 39 May 9 09:36 dapmm -> > /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/dapmm > lrwxrwxrwx. 1 mailman mailman 41 May 9 09:36 mailman -> > /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailma > Stephen told me: It's important to run bin/check_perms every time you upgrade, and > check the output carefully. If it's not 100% clean, > then run "bin/check_perms -f". Sometimes multiple runs are > necessary. If you run it without the -f option first, that might let you know if the owner/group settings are correct. From misterbhatt at gmail.com Fri May 11 19:20:07 2012 From: misterbhatt at gmail.com (Amit Bhatt) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 22:50:07 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help needed, mailing list deleted! Message-ID: Hi all, Some hacker has deleted our mailing list using backdoor shell spyware. I expected my service provider would retrieve the list by restoring full backup. they restored the data, but mailing list is still not there! Now, is there anyway to get it back? or we have to create new mailing list. Since the above incidence is very shocking and disturbing for me and our subscribers, I would anticipate any ultimate and best possible solutions from you experts on this board. Regards, Amit Bhatt From dave at fiteyes.com Fri May 11 19:31:56 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 13:31:56 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help needed, mailing list deleted! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Amit Bhatt wrote: > Hi all, > > Some hacker has deleted our mailing list using backdoor shell spyware. > I expected my service provider would retrieve the list by restoring full > backup. they restored the data, but mailing list is still not there! > Now, is there anyway to get it back? or we have to create new mailing list. > Do you have shell (and root/sudo) access to the server? Or are you limited to cpanel? From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 11 20:55:11 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 11:55:11 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration Problem - No Publicly Advertised Lists In-Reply-To: <4FAD2B36.7000800@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: >I am having trouble with the listinfo page saying there are no publicly >advertised lists. I ran 'withlist' and the output appeared normal. >Everything else seems to be working other than managing lists via the >web pages. See the FAQ at . If the information there does not help you solve the issue, do bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck | grep web_page_url and compare the host in that URL with the host in the URL you are using to access the listinfo page. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Fri May 11 21:15:34 2012 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 14:15:34 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman Message-ID: <1336763734.935.27.camel@pudina.fmp.com> I just installed, and just as promptly un-installed mailman on Ubuntu server 10.04.4 LTS. The offered pacakge version of mailman for this release, which I used, is 2.1.13-1. I have a few questions which perhaps someone could answer, if anyone knows the thinking behind Canonical's (and the package maintainer's) motives/reasons for what was done. The most awkward change, for me, is the elimination altogether of the mailman user. Mailman native scripts and utilities apparently get run as root, which as always brings up a whole kettle of security questions. On top of that, I've written a script package to parse and automatically unsubscribe list subscribers based on AOL's "Email feedback reports" for all the lists I host, using, among other things, mailman's python library and the withlist utility. These scripts depend on the existence of a non-privileged Mailman user account with a home dir of /usr/lib/mailman. Yes, I could hack the scripts to make things work, but I'm in the process of a major server move between Linux platforms from different distributions and my time is budgeted. Why was this done? It looks as if I'm going to have to install mailman from source on Ubuntu. I believe the Gentoo download, installed on my older servers, hewed much more closely to the methods and design of the Mailman devs, but I'm wondering what I'm missing here, or if the change was just due to lazy package design on Canonical's part. -- Lindsay Haisley | "Real programmers use butterflies" FMP Computer Services | 512-259-1190 | - xkcd http://www.fmp.com | From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 11 21:20:57 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 12:20:57 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help needed, mailing list deleted! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Amit Bhatt wrote: > >Some hacker has deleted our mailing list using backdoor shell spyware. >I expected my service provider would retrieve the list by restoring full backup. they restored the data, but mailing list is still not there! The list settings, membership, etc. are all in the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck file. Was that restored? >Since the above incidence is very shocking and disturbing for me and our subscribers, I would anticipate any ultimate and best possible solutions from you experts on this board. We always try to do our best with any issue whether it's easy or hard and whether it affects many people or only a few. That said, your service provider is in a much better position to help you with this than we are. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 11 21:30:21 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 12:30:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: <1336763734.935.27.camel@pudina.fmp.com> Message-ID: Lindsay Haisley wrote: >I just installed, and just as promptly un-installed mailman on Ubuntu >server 10.04.4 LTS. The offered pacakge version of mailman for this >release, which I used, is 2.1.13-1. The Ubuntu packages are based on Debian. >I have a few questions which perhaps someone could answer, if anyone >knows the thinking behind Canonical's (and the package maintainer's) >motives/reasons for what was done. > >The most awkward change, for me, is the elimination altogether of the >mailman user. Mailman native scripts and utilities apparently get run >as root, which as always brings up a whole kettle of security questions. They don't eliminate the Mailman user. They just call it 'list' rather than 'mailman'. >On top of that, I've written a script package to parse and automatically >unsubscribe list subscribers based on AOL's "Email feedback reports" for >all the lists I host, using, among other things, mailman's python >library and the withlist utility. These scripts depend on the existence >of a non-privileged Mailman user account with a home dir >of /usr/lib/mailman. I think 'list' satisfies this. >Yes, I could hack the scripts to make things work, >but I'm in the process of a major server move between Linux platforms >from different distributions and my time is budgeted. > >Why was this done? Ask Debian and see the FAQ at . >It looks as if I'm going to have to install mailman from source on >Ubuntu. I believe the Gentoo download, installed on my older servers, >hewed much more closely to the methods and design of the Mailman devs, >but I'm wondering what I'm missing here, or if the change was just due >to lazy package design on Canonical's part. Don't blame Canonical for Debian's decisions. Personally, I would always install from source on Debian/Ubuntu. Even though I run Ubuntu on some of my machines, I am not a fan of "The Debian Way". -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From barry at list.org Fri May 11 21:37:20 2012 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 12:37:20 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: <1336763734.935.27.camel@pudina.fmp.com> References: <1336763734.935.27.camel@pudina.fmp.com> Message-ID: <20120511123720.4aad4395@resist> On May 11, 2012, at 02:15 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: >I just installed, and just as promptly un-installed mailman on Ubuntu >server 10.04.4 LTS. The offered pacakge version of mailman for this >release, which I used, is 2.1.13-1. > >I have a few questions which perhaps someone could answer, if anyone >knows the thinking behind Canonical's (and the package maintainer's) >motives/reasons for what was done. Unfortunately I can't provide any insight into the rationale, since (perhaps ironically ;) I don't participate in the maintenance of the Mailman package. I would just like to point out a few things that might be useful: - Canonical, or for that matter Ubuntu, isn't responsible for this change, since it comes straight from Debian. AFAICT, we carry no Ubuntu-specific deltas to the Debian package. I.e. it's a straight sync from Debian in Precise (12.04 LTS). AFAICT, Lucid (10.04.4 LTS) carries a couple of additional security updates, but this doesn't seem like the kind of change that would be made in a security update. - Probably the best way to get authoritative answers is to contact the Debian Mailman packaging team: pkg-mailman-hackers at lists.alioth.debian.org I don't know whether anyone from that team is on this list, or mailman-developers. Cheers, -Barry From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Fri May 11 22:03:47 2012 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 15:03:47 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1336766627.935.54.camel@pudina.fmp.com> On Fri, 2012-05-11 at 12:30 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > They don't eliminate the Mailman user. They just call it 'list' rather > than 'mailman'. Actually, it's barely the same thing. It appears that qrunner gets run as user 'list' out of the mailman init script, but all other Mailman components are owned by root, group list, albeit all the executables have group execute enabled. I've twisted Mailman 2 in a number of ways, including integrating the namazu list search tool with it for my servers. I'll probably install it from source, as I've done previously, and run with it that way. It may make for more maintenance work later, but the initial installation will probably be easier, and it's only one of very many pieces on a new server which need to be hammered into shape. Thanks. -- Lindsay Haisley | "Humor will get you through times of no humor FMP Computer Services | better than no humor will get you through 512-259-1190 | times of humor." http://www.fmp.com | - Butch Hancock From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Fri May 11 21:50:38 2012 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 20:50:38 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: <20120511123720.4aad4395@resist> References: <1336763734.935.27.camel@pudina.fmp.com> <20120511123720.4aad4395@resist> Message-ID: <20120511195038.GZ4721@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 12:37:20PM -0700, Barry Warsaw wrote: > - Probably the best way to get authoritative answers is to contact the Debian > Mailman packaging team: > > pkg-mailman-hackers at lists.alioth.debian.org > > I don't know whether anyone from that team is on this list, or > mailman-developers. I have been on that spam-infested-thanks-Debian-for-open-for-all list for some time, but I've still not pulled my finger out and joined the maintainers' team for Mailman... I believe at least one of the regular committers may be on one of the Mailman-*@python.org lists, as well as pkg-mailman-hackers. -- "Bernard: I don't think Sir Humphrey understands economics, Prime Minister; he did read Classics, you know." "Hacker: What about Sir Frank? He's head of the Treasury!" "Bernard: Well I'm afraid he's at an even greater disadvantage in understanding economics: he's an economist." From dap1 at bellsouth.net Fri May 11 22:34:18 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 16:34:18 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration Problem - No Publicly Advertised Lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FAD77CA.3060204@bellsouth.net> Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, 'dumpdb' is not installed and I cannot find a package that contains it. On 5/11/2012 2:55 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: > >> I am having trouble with the listinfo page saying there are no publicly >> advertised lists. I ran 'withlist' and the output appeared normal. >> Everything else seems to be working other than managing lists via the >> web pages. > > See the FAQ at . > > If the information there does not help you solve the issue, do > > bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck | grep web_page_url > > and compare the host in that URL with the host in the URL you are using > to access the listinfo page. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bsfinkel at att.net Fri May 11 23:05:26 2012 From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S, Finkel) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 16:05:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FAD7F16.5010306@att.net> On 5/11/2012 2:30 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Lindsay Haisley wrote: > >> I just installed, and just as promptly un-installed mailman on Ubuntu >> server 10.04.4 LTS. The offered pacakge version of mailman for this >> release, which I used, is 2.1.13-1. > > The Ubuntu packages are based on Debian. > > >> I have a few questions which perhaps someone could answer, if anyone >> knows the thinking behind Canonical's (and the package maintainer's) >> motives/reasons for what was done. >> >> The most awkward change, for me, is the elimination altogether of the >> mailman user. Mailman native scripts and utilities apparently get run >> as root, which as always brings up a whole kettle of security questions. > > They don't eliminate the Mailman user. They just call it 'list' rather > than 'mailman'. > > >> On top of that, I've written a script package to parse and automatically >> unsubscribe list subscribers based on AOL's "Email feedback reports" for >> all the lists I host, using, among other things, mailman's python >> library and the withlist utility. These scripts depend on the existence >> of a non-privileged Mailman user account with a home dir >> of /usr/lib/mailman. > > I think 'list' satisfies this. > > >> Yes, I could hack the scripts to make things work, >> but I'm in the process of a major server move between Linux platforms > >from different distributions and my time is budgeted. >> Why was this done? > > Ask Debian and see the FAQ at. > > >> It looks as if I'm going to have to install mailman from source on >> Ubuntu. I believe the Gentoo download, installed on my older servers, >> hewed much more closely to the methods and design of the Mailman devs, >> but I'm wondering what I'm missing here, or if the change was just due >> to lazy package design on Canonical's part. > > Don't blame Canonical for Debian's decisions. > > Personally, I would always install from source on Debian/Ubuntu. Even > though I run Ubuntu on some of my machines, I am not a fan of "The > Debian Way". > When I was running Mailman on an Ubuntu system, I looked at the Debian source changes, and I decided that most were not documented. I had no idea what they did. I decided to take the Ubuntu package and the SourceForge source and create my own package. It took me a while to do the initial package, but after that it was easy. I think that Mark has previously posted to this list that many of the Debian patches are not needed. There is one that is wrong - it deletes a library that is sometimes needed. If I needed assistance on Mailman, I could post to this list and get a quick response. --Barry Finkel From mark at msapiro.net Sat May 12 01:35:33 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 16:35:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration Problem - No Publicly Advertised Lists In-Reply-To: <4FAD77CA.3060204@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, 'dumpdb' is not installed and I >cannot find a package that contains it. It's part of Mailman. it's in Mailman's bin/ directory, not in /bin or /usr/bin, but /usr/lib/mailman/bin or somewhere like that. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat May 12 01:44:55 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 16:44:55 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: <1336766627.935.54.camel@pudina.fmp.com> Message-ID: Lindsay Haisley wrote: > >Actually, it's barely the same thing. It appears that qrunner gets run >as user 'list' out of the mailman init script, but all other Mailman >components are owned by root, group list, albeit all the executables >have group execute enabled. So they're group 'list' and SETGID. Other than the name, how is that different from group 'mailman' and SETGID? The fact that they're owned by root is irrelevant. None assume any identity from the owner when run. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dave at fiteyes.com Sat May 12 03:19:30 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 21:19:30 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration Problem - No Publicly Advertised Lists In-Reply-To: References: <4FAD77CA.3060204@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: > > > >Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, 'dumpdb' is not installed and I > >cannot find a package that contains it. > > > It's part of Mailman. it's in Mailman's bin/ directory, not in /bin or > /usr/bin, but /usr/lib/mailman/bin or somewhere like that. > > Something like this might help: sudo find /usr -type f -name dumpdb result: /usr/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb If that doesn't work you might have to try sudo find / -type f -name dumpdb From dave at fiteyes.com Sat May 12 03:26:16 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 21:26:16 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: <1336766627.935.54.camel@pudina.fmp.com> References: <1336766627.935.54.camel@pudina.fmp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > On Fri, 2012-05-11 at 12:30 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > They don't eliminate the Mailman user. They just call it 'list' rather > > than 'mailman'. > > Actually, it's barely the same thing. It appears that qrunner gets run > as user 'list' out of the mailman init script, but all other Mailman > components are owned by root, group list, albeit all the executables > have group execute enabled. > run /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms the -f option will fix all those permissions. It will remove root as owner on all Mailman files. Mailman will still run just find on Ubuntu with the proper permissions set by this script. I'm told this isn't limited to Ubuntu, but that many other distros need to have the check_perms script run after any new install or upgrades. You may have to run the script more than once. If you want to fix the perms on the symlinks, you'll have to fix those manually with the "- h" option on chgrp. When you finish, check_perms will return no errors, you'll have all the permissions you want, and Mailman will run fine. I just went through all this. See the list archives for a whole thread with my questions on this topic. Everything is resolved now. I'm on Ubuntu 12.04. From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Sat May 12 04:12:11 2012 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 21:12:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: References: <1336766627.935.54.camel@pudina.fmp.com> Message-ID: <1336788731.17765.21.camel@pudina.fmp.com> On Fri, 2012-05-11 at 21:26 -0400, David wrote: > On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Lindsay Haisley > wrote: > On Fri, 2012-05-11 at 12:30 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > They don't eliminate the Mailman user. They just call it > 'list' rather > > than 'mailman'. > > > Actually, it's barely the same thing. It appears that qrunner > gets run > as user 'list' out of the mailman init script, but all other > Mailman > components are owned by root, group list, albeit all the > executables > have group execute enabled. > > run /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms > > the -f option will fix all those permissions. It will remove root as > owner on all Mailman files. Mailman will still run just find on Ubuntu > with the proper permissions set by this script. I'm told this isn't > limited to Ubuntu, but that many other distros need to have the > check_perms script run after any new install or upgrades. > > You may have to run the script more than once. If you want to fix the > perms on the symlinks, you'll have to fix those manually with the "- > h" option on chgrp. When you finish, check_perms will return no > errors, you'll have all the permissions you want, and Mailman will run > fine. I just went through all this. See the list archives for a whole > thread with my questions on this topic. Everything is resolved now. > I'm on Ubuntu 12.04. > Thanks, David. It's probably just as easy to bypass the precompiled Ubuntu package and work straight from the Mailman distribution. If I have issues, which are ususally creative problems with Python, I'd much rather work with the Mailman devs than with Canonical :-) From dap1 at bellsouth.net Sat May 12 12:26:31 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 06:26:31 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration Problem - No Publicly Advertised Lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FAE3AD7.3050805@bellsouth.net> Ah! I took your command literally. So the problem is that my mm_cfg.py seems to not be working. The resulting URL has the local FQDN not what I specified. Here is my mm_cfg.py (sanitized): # -*- python -*- # Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001,2002 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License # as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 # of the License, or (at your option) any later version. # # This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, # but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of # MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the # GNU General Public License for more details. # # You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License # along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software # Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. """This module contains your site-specific settings. From a brand new distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py. If you already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings you want. Mailman's installation procedure will never overwrite your mm_cfg.py file. The complete set of distributed defaults, with documentation, are in the file Defaults.py. In mm_cfg.py, override only those you want to change, after the from Defaults import * line (see below). Note that these are just default settings; many can be overridden via the administrator and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis. """ ############################################### # Here's where we get the distributed defaults. from Defaults import * import pwd, grp ################################################## # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line. #ATTENTION: when you use SELinux, mailman might not #be able to recompile the configuration file #due to policy settings. If this is the case, #please run (as root) the supplied "mailman-update-cfg" script ############################################################## # Here's where we override shipped defaults with settings # # suitable for the RPM package. # MAILMAN_UID = pwd.getpwnam('mailman')[2] MAILMAN_GID = grp.getgrnam('mailman')[2] ############################################################## # Set URL and email domain names # # # Mailman needs to know about (at least) two fully-qualified domain # names (fqdn) # # 1) the hostname used in your urls (DEFAULT_URL_HOST) # 2) the hostname used in email addresses for your domain (DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) # # For example, if people visit your Mailman system with # "http://www.dom.ain/mailman" then your url fqdn is "www.dom.ain", # and if people send mail to your system via "yourlist at dom.ain" then # your email fqdn is "dom.ain". DEFAULT_URL_HOST controls the former, # and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST controls the latter. Mailman also needs to # know how to map from one to the other (this is especially important # if you're running with virtual domains). You use # "add_virtualhost(urlfqdn, emailfqdn)" to add new mappings. # Default to using the FQDN of machine mailman is running on. # If this is not correct for your installation delete the following 5 # lines that acquire the FQDN and manually edit the hosts instead. from socket import * try: fqdn = getfqdn() except: fqdn = 'mm_cfg_has_unknown_host_domains' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'myhostname.myispdomain.com' DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'myispdomain.net' # Because we've overriden the virtual hosts above add_virtualhost # MUST be called after they have been defined. VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) ############################################################## # Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . # # See Defaults.py for explanations of the values. # # Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg, but you # didn't find it above, it's probably in Defaults.py. Thanks. On 5/11/2012 7:35 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, 'dumpdb' is not installed and I >> cannot find a package that contains it. > > It's part of Mailman. it's in Mailman's bin/ directory, not in /bin or > /usr/bin, but /usr/lib/mailman/bin or somewhere like that. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Sat May 12 15:53:10 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 06:53:10 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration Problem - No Publicly Advertised Lists In-Reply-To: <4FAE3AD7.3050805@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >Ah! I took your command literally. So the problem is that my mm_cfg.py >seems to not be working. The resulting URL has the local FQDN not what I >specified. Here is my mm_cfg.py (sanitized): Did you run fix_url AFTER editing mm_cfg.py? If so, what is the exact command you ran? /path/to/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url should do it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dap1 at bellsouth.net Sun May 13 00:37:01 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 18:37:01 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration Problem - No Publicly Advertised Lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FAEE60D.9060704@bellsouth.net> Thanks again. I did not, I had to boot anyway for other reasons and I thought that would be sufficient. Obviously not. In any case I had to run check_perms a couple of times but it seems to be working OK now. On 5/12/2012 9:53 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> Ah! I took your command literally. So the problem is that my mm_cfg.py >> seems to not be working. The resulting URL has the local FQDN not what I >> specified. Here is my mm_cfg.py (sanitized): > > Did you run fix_url AFTER editing mm_cfg.py? > > If so, what is the exact command you ran? > > /path/to/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url > > should do it. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From dave at fiteyes.com Sun May 13 03:39:08 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 21:39:08 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > DKIM signing is normally done in an outgoing MTA. SPF and reverse DNS > are DNS things, not Mailman. > > In general, best practices for Mailman servers are the same as best > practices for sending mail in general. > > Mailman does have the ability to remove DKIM signatures from incoming > mail where Mailman might break these signatures by, e.g., prefixing > Subject: headers and/or adding list header or footer information to > message bodies, but this is controversial. Also, DKIM signing of > outgoing list mail is controversial because by doing so, you are > saying that your server vouches for the legitimacy of this mail when, > in fact, it may be spam that made it through your list. > > Read some of the hits returned by > . > > Thanks for the info and the search link. Interesting reading (some of it, anyway). In regard to the controversial aspect of DKIM signing of outgoing list mail, we moderate all messages, so I'm not too concerned about that part. I have DKIM implemented with opendkim and Postfix and messages sent out via sendmail are signed properly. However, messages sent out to the list's users by Mailman are not DKIM signed. Any suggestions? From mark at msapiro.net Sun May 13 06:51:57 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 21:51:57 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David wrote: > >I have DKIM implemented with opendkim and Postfix and messages sent out via >sendmail are signed properly. > >However, messages sent out to the list's users by Mailman are not DKIM >signed. Any suggestions? Is Mailman sending outgoing mail via your local Postfix. These headers from yor post at Received: from myhost.hostingprovider.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9CA1123AB; Wed, 9 May 2012 21:43:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Original-To: list at lists.example.com Delivered-To: list at lists.example.com Received: from fmailhost01.isp.att.net (fmailhost01.isp.att.net [204.127.217.101]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D84D123A4 for ; Wed, 9 May 2012 20:52:06 +0000 (UTC) indicate that it is. Why such mail would not be DKIM signed by Postfix when mail submitted via the Postfix sendmail command is DKIM signed by Postfix probably has to do with the Postfix/opendkim configuration and is not something I can answer offhand. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dave at fiteyes.com Sun May 13 07:39:31 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 01:39:31 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 12:51 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > David wrote: > > > >I have DKIM implemented with opendkim and Postfix and messages sent out > via > >sendmail are signed properly. > > > >However, messages sent out to the list's users by Mailman are not DKIM > >signed. Any suggestions? > > > Is Mailman sending outgoing mail via your local Postfix. > Yes. > Why such mail would not be DKIM signed by Postfix when mail submitted > via the Postfix sendmail command is DKIM signed by Postfix probably > has to do with the Postfix/opendkim configuration and is not something > I can answer offhand. > If you think of anything, please let me know. I have been reading all the DKIM related posts I can find, both on this list and other places. For a mailing list, would I have to expand my SigningTable in any way? My opendkim SigningTable currently only has an entry for *@list.example.com(which is associated with list._ domainkey.example.com). But /var/log/mail.log shows a lot of entries like this: no signing table match for [some member of the list] > So I think signing doesn't take place for messages passing through the list because of the way I set up my SigningTable. But I didn't find any specific info on setting up a SigningTable for a mailing list. The mail log file also shows entries like this: May 12 21:45:42 localhost opendkim[20976]: 55A4C122C5: DKIM-Signature > header added > Although when I manually inspect emails I receive via the list from other users they are never DKIM signed. (My own messages are signed -- and I certainly match the signing table. But I can't match the log entries up to individual users or to list activity, so far; therefore, a number of things are still unclear.) (Similarly, my trusted hosts table is limited to my own Mailman/Postfix server. But I can't imagine it would be wise to change that.) From mark at msapiro.net Sun May 13 07:49:38 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 22:49:38 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David wrote: > >For a mailing list, would I have to expand my SigningTable in any way? My >opendkim SigningTable currently only has an entry for >*@list.example.com(which is associated with list._ >domainkey.example.com). > >But /var/log/mail.log shows a lot of entries like this: > >no signing table match for [some member of the list] >> > >So I think signing doesn't take place for messages passing through the list >because of the way I set up my SigningTable. But I didn't find any specific >info on setting up a SigningTable for a mailing list. > >The mail log file also shows entries like this: > >May 12 21:45:42 localhost opendkim[20976]: 55A4C122C5: DKIM-Signature >> header added >> > >Although when I manually inspect emails I receive via the list from other >users they are never DKIM signed. (My own messages are signed -- and I >certainly match the signing table. But I can't match the log entries up to >individual users or to list activity, so far; therefore, a number of things >are still unclear.) > >(Similarly, my trusted hosts table is limited to my own Mailman/Postfix >server. But I can't imagine it would be wise to change that.) It seems you have the appropriate information to diagnose your issue, but you are asking the wrong list. Try -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Sun May 13 13:17:47 2012 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 13:17:47 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120513111747.GD10774@charite.de> > > Why such mail would not be DKIM signed by Postfix when mail submitted > > via the Postfix sendmail command is DKIM signed by Postfix probably > > has to do with the Postfix/opendkim configuration and is not something > > I can answer offhand. > > > > If you think of anything, please let me know. I have been reading all the > DKIM related posts I can find, both on this list and other places. Maybe it's just a smtpd_milter and thus not enabled for sendmail -- Ralf Hildebrandt Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de Campus Benjamin Franklin http://www.charite.de Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155 From misterbhatt at gmail.com Sun May 13 15:38:31 2012 From: misterbhatt at gmail.com (Amit Bhatt) Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 19:08:31 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help needed, mailing list deleted! References: Message-ID: <177C09D5CE604129AF0332708FFEB383@amit> After Giving a hard effort, the mailing list is restored by restoring the backup, but now the issue is with our archive. Users are facing an error 404 page not found while trying to access public archive. Alternatively, when I set a private archive option from the admin interface, the archive is viewable to me, but it is asking other users to enter login and password. Users are doing this but it is still not opening. Please let me know how to make public archive accessible and how one can view the private archive by entering login iD and password. Thanks, Amit Bhatt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Sapiro" To: "Amit Bhatt" ; Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 12:50 AM Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help needed, mailing list deleted! > Amit Bhatt wrote: >> >>Some hacker has deleted our mailing list using backdoor shell spyware. >>I expected my service provider would retrieve the list by restoring full >>backup. they restored the data, but mailing list is still not there! > > > The list settings, membership, etc. are all in the > lists/LISTNAME/config.pck file. Was that restored? > > >>Since the above incidence is very shocking and disturbing for me and our >>subscribers, I would anticipate any ultimate and best possible solutions >>from you experts on this board. > > > We always try to do our best with any issue whether it's easy or hard > and whether it affects many people or only a few. > > That said, your service provider is in a much better position to help > you with this than we are. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > From mark at msapiro.net Sun May 13 16:02:48 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 07:02:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help needed, mailing list deleted! In-Reply-To: <177C09D5CE604129AF0332708FFEB383@amit> Message-ID: Amit Bhatt wrote: >Please let me know how to make public archive accessible and how one can >view the private archive by entering login iD and password. To fix the public archive problem, there are two possibilities. 1) There is some problem with the archives/public/ structure. Either there is no archives/public directory, or its group is not Mailman's group or its mode is not 2775 or itts contents is not just symlinks from LISTNAME to archives/public/LISTNAME. If that is the case, fix it. 2) There is some problem with the Alias /pipermail/ directive in the web server. See . If you can log in to the private page and see the archives, but the users can't using their list email address and password, I suspect user error. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From joseph.sniderman at thoroquel.org Sun May 13 15:45:37 2012 From: joseph.sniderman at thoroquel.org (Joe Sniderman) Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 09:45:37 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FAFBB01.2040501@arpawocky.com> On 05/13/2012 01:39 AM, David wrote: [snip] > If you think of anything, please let me know. I have been reading all > the DKIM related posts I can find, both on this list and other > places. > > For a mailing list, would I have to expand my SigningTable in any > way? No, as long as the list's domain is in your SigningTable. > My opendkim SigningTable currently only has an entry for > *@list.example.com(which is associated with list._ > domainkey.example.com). > > But /var/log/mail.log shows a lot of entries like this: > > no signing table match for [some member of the list] OpenDKIM is seeing the subscriber's domain as the sender domain, and is basing its decision not to sign on the fact that the poster's domain is not in the signing table. If you want to sign outgoing messages, you probably want to sign based on the list's domain, rather than the poster's domain. By default, OpenDKIM only looks at the "From" message header to determine the sender. from opendkim.conf(5): >| SenderHeaders (dataset) Specifies an ordered list of header fields >| that should be searched to determine the sender of a message. This >| is mainly used when verifying a message to determine the origin >| domain, particularly for doing domain policy queries. By default, >| the DKIM library's internal list is used, which consists solely of >| the "From" header field. Assuming that your mailman instance adds a "Sender" header that matches the list-name (or a verpified version thereof) to outgoing messages, adding something like: SenderHeaders Sender,From to your opendkim.conf *should* resolve the problem. FWIW, making that config change resolved the issue in my case. YMMV. -- Joe Sniderman From dave at fiteyes.com Mon May 14 04:43:47 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (Dave (FitEyes)) Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 22:43:47 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Giving away the secrets of 99.3% email delivery In-Reply-To: <4FAFBB01.2040501@arpawocky.com> References: <4FAFBB01.2040501@arpawocky.com> Message-ID: On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Joe Sniderman < joseph.sniderman at thoroquel.org> wrote: > On 05/13/2012 01:39 AM, David wrote: > > For a mailing list, would I have to expand my SigningTable in any > > way? > > No, as long as the list's domain is in your SigningTable. > OK. > > If you want to sign outgoing messages, you probably want to sign based > on the list's domain, rather than the poster's domain. > > By default, OpenDKIM only looks at the "From" message header to > determine the sender. > I see. That's exactly what I needed to know. > > SenderHeaders Sender,From > > to your opendkim.conf *should* resolve the problem. > FWIW, making that config change resolved the issue in my case. YMMV. > Thank you. This is the most amazingly helpful list I have ever been on. The Mailman community is awesome. From misterbhatt at gmail.com Mon May 14 18:27:00 2012 From: misterbhatt at gmail.com (Amit Bhatt) Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:57:00 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sevier Issue with mails, are these compromised? Message-ID: <1D16FA44D05C453DA67DC13B886BF720@amit> Hello all, I have recently shifted my site and mailing list on Hostgator server here in India. Today, I've got an E-Mail from them saying that as per the mail policy, our members can send 500 mails per hour but we are exceeding the number of mails a day! While the fact is we have around 360 members and we send hardly 50 to 60 messages in entire day of 24:00. so, I am unable to understand what's wrong with us. Are some of our mails account got hacked and compromised? Hostgator team has send me the number of messages and Email addresses sent from: -------------------------- sayeverything-bounces at sayeverything.org: 11,655 mailman-bounces at sayeverything.org: 4 sayevery at in6.hostgator.in: 2 moderator at sayeverything.org: 1 They also send me some Random recipient addresses. Please advise me, what it looks like, problem with some mailman setting at our end? any issue with the technicality of my service provider? or as I suspect, are above mail accounts being misused? Thanks, Amit Bhatt From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Mon May 14 18:41:32 2012 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 11:41:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sevier Issue with mails, are these compromised? In-Reply-To: <1D16FA44D05C453DA67DC13B886BF720@amit> References: <1D16FA44D05C453DA67DC13B886BF720@amit> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 May 2012, Amit Bhatt wrote: > Today, I've got an E-Mail from them saying that as per the mail policy, > our members can send 500 mails per hour but we are exceeding the number > of mails a day! > While the fact is we have around 360 members and we send hardly 50 to 60 > messages in entire day of 24:00. > so, I am unable to understand what's wrong with us. Are some of our > mails account got hacked and compromised? I suspect you don't understand how emails are counted. Each list message to each recipinet probably counts as one email. If I'm understanding you correctly, your are sending 50 to 60 messages per day to 360 users. 50 times 360 is 18,000 outgoing messages per day. > Hostgator team has send me the number of messages and Email addresses sent from: > -------------------------- > sayeverything-bounces at sayeverything.org: 11,655 That fits with my assumption above. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com From misterbhatt at gmail.com Mon May 14 19:21:15 2012 From: misterbhatt at gmail.com (Amit Bhatt) Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 22:51:15 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sevier Issue with mails, are these compromised? References: <1D16FA44D05C453DA67DC13B886BF720@amit> Message-ID: <505C2CE258FF4E1993A390C0B8062D3E@amit> So, does it mean that we cannot run our mailman with hosting provider like Hostgator? If this is the case, who is good service provider where our mailing list can work properly without such interruption. Regards, Amit Bhatt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Stone" To: Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Sevier Issue with mails, are these compromised? > On Mon, 14 May 2012, Amit Bhatt wrote: > >> Today, I've got an E-Mail from them saying that as per the mail policy, >> our members can send 500 mails per hour but we are exceeding the number >> of mails a day! > >> While the fact is we have around 360 members and we send hardly 50 to 60 >> messages in entire day of 24:00. > >> so, I am unable to understand what's wrong with us. Are some of our mails >> account got hacked and compromised? > > I suspect you don't understand how emails are counted. Each list message > to each recipinet probably counts as one email. If I'm understanding you > correctly, your are sending 50 to 60 messages per day to 360 users. 50 > times 360 is 18,000 outgoing messages per day. > >> Hostgator team has send me the number of messages and Email addresses >> sent from: >> -------------------------- >> sayeverything-bounces at sayeverything.org: 11,655 > > That fits with my assumption above. > > -- Larry Stone > lstone19 at stonejongleux.com > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/misterbhatt%40gmail.com From brian at emwd.com Mon May 14 19:47:10 2012 From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter) Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 13:47:10 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sevier Issue with mails, are these compromised? In-Reply-To: <505C2CE258FF4E1993A390C0B8062D3E@amit> References: <1D16FA44D05C453DA67DC13B886BF720@amit> <505C2CE258FF4E1993A390C0B8062D3E@amit> Message-ID: <4FB1451E.6080809@emwd.com> On 5/14/2012 1:21 PM, Amit Bhatt wrote: > So, does it mean that we cannot run our mailman with hosting provider > like Hostgator? If this is the case, who is good service provider > where our mailing list can work properly without such interruption. > > Regards, > > Amit Bhatt > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Stone" > > To: > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 10:11 PM > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Sevier Issue with mails, are these > compromised? > > >> On Mon, 14 May 2012, Amit Bhatt wrote: >> >>> Today, I've got an E-Mail from them saying that as per the mail >>> policy, our members can send 500 mails per hour but we are exceeding >>> the number of mails a day! >> >>> While the fact is we have around 360 members and we send hardly 50 >>> to 60 messages in entire day of 24:00. >> >>> so, I am unable to understand what's wrong with us. Are some of our >>> mails account got hacked and compromised? >> >> I suspect you don't understand how emails are counted. Each list >> message to each recipinet probably counts as one email. If I'm >> understanding you correctly, your are sending 50 to 60 messages per >> day to 360 users. 50 times 360 is 18,000 outgoing messages per day. >> >>> Hostgator team has send me the number of messages and Email >>> addresses sent from: >>> -------------------------- >>> sayeverything-bounces at sayeverything.org: 11,655 >> >> That fits with my assumption above. >> >> -- Larry Stone >> lstone19 at stonejongleux.com >> ------------------------------------------------------ Hi Amit: You will not be able to use that mailman list with Hostgator due to their email limits. I recommend you to check out our mailman hosting services at http://www.mailmanhost.com. We have a number of clients from Hostgator and Bluehost who use us to host their mailman lists since we do not impose any limits on our mailman clients. Please let me know if you have any questions. -- Brian Carpenter Owner | EMWD& dotList brian at emwd.com | http://www.emwd.com | http://www.mailmanhost.com From dave at fiteyes.com Mon May 14 20:36:39 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 14:36:39 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I default to HTML, not plain text emails? Message-ID: There is an old discussion in this list's archives on this topic at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-April/044342.html. Unfortunately, it didn't help me. The problem, as I understand it, is that when you change the digest setting, it also affects the non-digest setting. The archived thread didn't resolve or clarify this for me. We are experiencing this problem now. Our problem: Set the following option to "plain". Note that this is a digest option, not a non-digest option. ??? When receiving digests, which format is default?? Plain ??? (Edit mime_is_default_digest) Then set the following option to "regular": ??? Which delivery mode is the default for new users?? Regular ??? (Edit digest_is_default) Now add a new member to the list. What happens is that the new member is set to non-digest and plain text defaults. If you now change "mime_is_default_digest" to MIME and add a new member, the new member is set to non-digest and rich text defaults. So the digest option is changing the default settings for non-digest new members. This is both confusing and limiting. We want digest emails sent out in "plain" format by default. But we want the non-digest option with rich text to be the default for all new users. There doesn't seem to be a way to achieve this. Hopefully, there is a setting I'm overlooking. Regards, David From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 15 02:22:17 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 17:22:17 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I default to HTML, not plain text emails? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FB1A1B9.1060603@msapiro.net> On 5/14/2012 11:36 AM, David wrote: > There is an old discussion in this list's archives on this topic at > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-April/044342.html. > Unfortunately, it didn't help me. > > The problem, as I understand it, is that when you change the digest > setting, it also affects the non-digest setting. That is not correct. The ONLY thing affected by the plain/MIME setting is the format of the user's digest. > The archived thread > didn't resolve or clarify this for me. We are experiencing this > problem now. > > Our problem: > > Set the following option to "plain". Note that this is a digest > option, not a non-digest option. > > When receiving digests, which format is default? Plain > (Edit mime_is_default_digest) > > Then set the following option to "regular": > > Which delivery mode is the default for new users? Regular > (Edit digest_is_default) > > Now add a new member to the list. > > What happens is that the new member is set to non-digest and plain > text defaults. Yes, but the 'plain' setting, while displayed, does not affect this user in any way as it only affects digests. > If you now change "mime_is_default_digest" to MIME and add a new > member, the new member is set to non-digest and rich text defaults. There's another misunderstanding. MIME does not mean "rich text" or HTML. It only means that MIME format digests are sent as MIME Content-Type: multipart/digest with each digested message contained in it's own message/rfc822 sub-part, whereas 'plain' format digests are 'flattened in to a single text/plain message with those parts that can't be rendered as plain text removed and stored aside, a process called 'scrubbing'. > So the digest option is changing the default settings for non-digest > new members. This is both confusing and limiting. It is a digest option that affects only digest subscribers, but every subscriber has the bit that controls that option, whether or not it is relevant to their subscription at this time. I'm sorry you find this confusing. Have you looked at the list member manual at ? > We want digest emails sent out in "plain" format by default. But we > want the non-digest option with rich text to be the default for all > new users. There doesn't seem to be a way to achieve this. Hopefully, > there is a setting I'm overlooking. Every non-digest subscriber receives the same message which is the message as sent by the poster with possible addition of msg_header and/or msg_footer and possible content removed by content filtering if enabled. The plain/MIME setting does not affect this. Mailman does not in any way 'convert' a plain text message to HTML or rich text. If you want HTML messages to be delivered to list members, you have to a) post HTML or multipart/alternative with an HTML part, and b) make sure content filtering passes everything you want. I think my off list exchange with Terry Earley got your content filtering settings to the point where they were passing what you wanted. Then, depending on their MUAs, MIME digest subscribers may also see the same "rich text" messages as all non-digest subscribers. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From skeffling at gmail.com Mon May 14 12:45:02 2012 From: skeffling at gmail.com (Andrew H) Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 11:45:02 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error accessing admin pages, AttributeError: local_name Message-ID: <4FB0E22E.8060403@gmail.com> Hello, I'm using the mailman vhost branch (is this the 'best' thing to use to do multi-domain mailing list hosting?) When I enter /mailman/admin/2030 it first asks for the password, after that I get an error page 'Bug in Mailman version 2.1.14' This happens on all the lists, but it did used to work but I'm not sure what has happened to break it now. The Error log can be seen at http://pastebin.com/KZKMwCap Help appreciated! Thanks Andrew. From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 15 04:12:48 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 19:12:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error accessing admin pages, AttributeError: local_name In-Reply-To: <4FB0E22E.8060403@gmail.com> Message-ID: Andrew H wrote: > >I'm using the mailman vhost branch (is this the 'best' thing to use to >do multi-domain mailing list hosting?) The recommended best practice for Mailman 2.1.x is to run a separate Mailman instance per domain. The vhost branch may be the second choice alternative. >When I enter /mailman/admin/2030 it first asks for the password, after >that I get an error page 'Bug in Mailman version 2.1.14' > >This happens on all the lists, but it did used to work but I'm not sure >what has happened to break it now. What broke it is setting OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes in mm_cfg.py. It's definitely a bug in the vhost branch. It's fixed (I hope) in rev. 852 of the branch. See for the fix. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at bradakis.com Tue May 15 03:54:21 2012 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 19:54:21 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filters Message-ID: <4FB1B74D.20902@bradakis.com> So my mailing lists are getting hit by spam that goes to the lists since it claims to be from some poor subscriber whose email got hijacked. But to be more general, what are some of the current best practices to filter out spam in a postfix mailman environment on Linux? mjb. From stephen at xemacs.org Tue May 15 04:54:42 2012 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 11:54:42 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: <1336788731.17765.21.camel@pudina.fmp.com> References: <1336766627.935.54.camel@pudina.fmp.com> <1336788731.17765.21.camel@pudina.fmp.com> Message-ID: <874nrirw5p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Lindsay Haisley writes: > It's probably just as easy to bypass the precompiled Ubuntu package and > work straight from the Mailman distribution. If I have issues, which > are ususally creative problems with Python, I'd much rather work with > the Mailman devs than with Canonical :-) We do like to hear we're easy to work with! "The distros" (and that includes even Gentoo and Arch, to some degree) do have their place, but it's not in the specialized mission-critical components of the system. Depending on your application, you may want to apply that even to the kernel and libc, but most of the time there's a long list of highly complex and widely used components (kernel, libc, Apache, ...) that the distros do quite well enough, and you rarely if ever run into issues (whether software bugs or admin PEBKAC). But when you do run into issues, whether a need for customization or a bug, it help a lot to be using something as close to upstream's recommended configuration as possible. That's why many projects (not just Mailman) recommend building from source. (Yeah, I know you know this, Lindsay. It's worth repeating occasionally, though. "This automatically-triggered recording was brought to you by the FLUFL's Fluffy Support Brigade and the Mailman Devs." :-) From stephen at xemacs.org Tue May 15 05:03:00 2012 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 12:03:00 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filters In-Reply-To: <4FB1B74D.20902@bradakis.com> References: <4FB1B74D.20902@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <873972rvrv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Mark J Bradakis writes: > So my mailing lists are getting hit by spam that goes to the lists > since it claims to be from some poor subscriber whose email got > hijacked. But to be more general, what are some of the current > best practices to filter out spam in a postfix mailman environment > on Linux? Run SpamAssassin or similar as a milter from Postfix. One hint that may help is that on many lists there's a short list of keywords that allow you to whitelist content when they appear in a text/* part. Eg, on Python lists, almost no spam contains the word "python" (except perhaps in the greeting "Dear python-list at python.com"). SpamAssassin and similar filters allow you to add rules for this kind of thing. From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Tue May 15 05:42:09 2012 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 22:42:09 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: <874nrirw5p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <1336766627.935.54.camel@pudina.fmp.com> <1336788731.17765.21.camel@pudina.fmp.com> <874nrirw5p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <1337053329.4820.38.camel@indra.fmp.com> On Tue, 2012-05-15 at 11:54 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > But when you do run into issues, whether a need for customization or a > bug, it help a lot to be using something as close to upstream's > recommended configuration as possible. That's why many projects (not > just Mailman) recommend building from source. > > (Yeah, I know you know this, Lindsay. It's worth repeating > occasionally, though. "This automatically-triggered recording was > brought to you by the FLUFL's Fluffy Support Brigade and the Mailman > Devs." :-) Heh!! Yeah, the Mailman developers seem to be a very focused and friendly bunch. Brad Knowles is a friend of mine here in Austin, as we're both members of Austin's Unix professional society. There's also the fact that I've bent Mailman to my will in a couple of departments, forcing it to deal intelligently with PHP and Namazu. As you point out, it's always easiest to start as far upstream as possible when one does this sort of thing. I've moved away from Gentoo for my servers. It's just too much hassle and takes too long to deal with building from source for _everything_, so I let Canonical handle the big stuff and use Ubuntu server on my newest server, and Linux Mint on my favorite desktop. I'm 70 years old. I just don't have the bandwidth, or the time, to learn everything I need to know to keep up with all the dirty details of the ever increasing complexity of a modern Linux installation. -- Lindsay Haisley | "The only unchanging certainty FMP Computer Services | is the certainty of change" 512-259-1190 | http://www.fmp.com | - Ancient wisdom, all cultures From odhiambo at gmail.com Tue May 15 10:33:41 2012 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 11:33:41 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error accessing admin pages, AttributeError: local_name In-Reply-To: References: <4FB0E22E.8060403@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Andrew H wrote: > > > >I'm using the mailman vhost branch (is this the 'best' thing to use to > >do multi-domain mailing list hosting?) > > > The recommended best practice for Mailman 2.1.x is to run a separate > Mailman instance per domain. The vhost branch may be the second choice > alternative. > > I did not know of the existence of this branch of Mailman. How is it different from the main branch? I am running Mailman with vhosts in a single instance, with theonly limitation I have being that I cannot use the same listname more than once. Is there something I am/have been missing? I am on 2.1.14. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email. From skeffling at gmail.com Tue May 15 14:03:29 2012 From: skeffling at gmail.com (Andrew H) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 13:03:29 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error accessing admin pages, AttributeError: local_name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FB24611.8090507@gmail.com> On 15/05/2012 03:12, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Andrew H wrote: >> I'm using the mailman vhost branch (is this the 'best' thing to use to >> do multi-domain mailing list hosting?) > > The recommended best practice for Mailman 2.1.x is to run a separate > Mailman instance per domain. The vhost branch may be the second choice > alternative. > > >> When I enter /mailman/admin/2030 it first asks for the password, after >> that I get an error page 'Bug in Mailman version 2.1.14' >> >> This happens on all the lists, but it did used to work but I'm not sure >> what has happened to break it now. > > What broke it is setting > > OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes > > in mm_cfg.py. It's definitely a bug in the vhost branch. It's fixed (I > hope) in rev. 852 of the branch. See > for > the fix. > Ah, thank you very much! I'm looking in to mailman3 too, seems quite different :-) a. From mailman at uni-duisburg-essen.de Tue May 15 08:09:38 2012 From: mailman at uni-duisburg-essen.de (mailman at uni-duisburg-essen.de) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 08:09:38 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filters In-Reply-To: <4FB1B74D.20902@bradakis.com> References: <4FB1B74D.20902@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <201205150809.48795.mailman@uni-duisburg-essen.de> Am Dienstag, 15. Mai 2012, 03:54:21 schrieb Mark J Bradakis: > So my mailing lists are getting hit by spam that goes to the lists > since it claims to be from some poor subscriber whose email got > hijacked. But to be more general, what are some of the current > best practices to filter out spam in a postfix mailman environment > on Linux? > Since we are using greylisting in addition to clamav (+ clamav-unofficial- sigs) the amount of spam decreased once more. I don't remember when the last customer complained about having unsolicited e-mails. Regards, Rainer From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 15 18:25:47 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 09:25:47 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error accessing admin pages, AttributeError: local_name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Odhiambo Washington wrote: >I did not know of the existence of this branch of Mailman. How is it >different from the main branch? >I am running Mailman with vhosts in a single instance, with theonly >limitation I have being that I cannot use the same listname more than once. >Is there something I am/have been missing? I am on 2.1.14. If you can accept the limitation of globally unique list names, stick with what you have and upgrade to 2.1.15 when it is released. If you need to use the same list name in two different domains, see . This branch is currently somewhere between 2.1.14 and 2.1.15 and will probably be merged with 2.1.15 when it is released, but the patches on which it is based are incomplete and not guaranteed. Read the description on the above page for more information. The recommendation for support of the same list name in two domains is still either multiple 2.1.x instances or wait for Mailman 3. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 15 19:00:14 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 10:00:14 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filters In-Reply-To: <4FB1B74D.20902@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Mark J Bradakis wrote: >But to be more general, what are some of the current >best practices to filter out spam in a postfix mailman environment >on Linux? I use greylisting with Postgrey and spam/virus/other scanning via MailScanner. Also to increase protection against hijacked list member's accounts, on my largest, highest traffic list I have set Privacy options... -> Recipient filters -> max_num_recipients to 5 although this does result in some held posts due to the recipient list growing after multiple reply-alls. I also hold messages with no or empty Subject: header. I happen to do this with a custom handler that also holds messages that quote digest boilerplate, but it can be done with header_filter_rules. Other things I hold with header_filter_rules are these: ^Sender:.*linkedin.com>?$ ^Return-Path:.*linkedin.com>?$ ^Sender:.*homerunmail.com>?$ ^Return-Path:.*homerunmail.com>?$ ^Reply-To:.*homerunmail.com>?$ ^Sender:.*facebookmail.com>?$ ^Return-Path:.*facebookmail.com>?$ I also have ^.*[@.]apot(mail)?\.com$ in all my lists' ban_list. This is not anti-spam, but is to prevent answerpot from subscribing to lists for the purpose of archiving them. If MailScanner seems too heavy a hammer for spam/malware filtering, alternatives are or simply running spamassassin and clamav via milters. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Tue May 15 22:36:20 2012 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 23:36:20 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: <874nrirw5p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <1336766627.935.54.camel@pudina.fmp.com> <1336788731.17765.21.camel@pudina.fmp.com> <874nrirw5p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: Hi, I'd like to make the case for considering the Debian etc Mailman instead of rolling your own. I've done several Mailman installs under Debian and Ubuntu and have had minimal problems. The key in my opinion is to look at the installation guide and make sure you actually do everything that's listed there that's appropriate. It's easy enough to assume that a lot of what you need to do regarding setup will be done for you when you install a package, but this isn't really the case with Mailman (by necessity). ONe of the reasons why installing from source is not exactly straight-forward is that Debian has conventions for things like the user accounts used for specific things. If you're going to compile Mailman from source on a Debian-based system, you'll need to either undermine a lot of other things, or supply the appropriate configure flags so that Mailman uses the accounts that Debian uses. I had to do a number of Mailman instals on a Ubuntu box in 2009. This is the command line I came up with: ./configure --with-username=list --with-groupname=list \ --with-mail-gid=list --with-cgi-gid=www-data These flags were a product of looking at the Debian package sources and several rounds with the various bits of the system where it complained about user mismatches. Since I was doing multiple installs for multiple virtual hosts (see other thread on this), I also added: --prefix=/usr/local/mailman/example.com/ --with-mailhost=example.com --with-urlhost=www.example.com I also wrote the following in my file of notes at the time (since I was going to have to do this multiple times): You might want to umask 002 before running make. after make install: cd $prefix bin/check_perms then chown www-data archives/private chmod o-x archives/private (Do stuff specific to your webserver and MTA setup) Run bin/genailiases from $prefix Try check-perms again after genaliases -------CUT here ------- There were some other bits and pieces specific to the multiple hosts aspect of it. IN particular, there was a patch I was applying to add the domain as a suffix so that the same list name could be used across domains. I'm not sure if that patch is now the virtual hosts branch or if it's something else. All this was a product of many days of slavery and lots of helpful advice from this list, which you can read at the following threads (don't know why they split): http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-October/067354.html http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-October/067363.html http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-October/067364.html Hope all of this is of some use to someone. Geoff. From dave at fiteyes.com Wed May 16 00:02:07 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 18:02:07 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: References: <1336766627.935.54.camel@pudina.fmp.com> <1336788731.17765.21.camel@pudina.fmp.com> <874nrirw5p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Geoff Shang wrote: > Hi, > > I'd like to make the case for considering the Debian etc Mailman instead > of rolling your own. > > I've done several Mailman installs under Debian and Ubuntu and have had > minimal problems. I can't claim a lot of experience, but I did install Mailman on at least 3 Ubuntu servers recently and on the basis of that limited experience, I agree with you. In Ubuntu 12.04 installing the Mailman deb package was very straightforward and is working without any problems (after I ran bin/check_perms and manually fixed anything the script didn't fix). From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 16 01:31:41 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 16:31:41 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff Shang wrote: > >I've done several Mailman installs under Debian and Ubuntu and have had >minimal problems. The key in my opinion is to look at the installation >guide and make sure you actually do everything that's listed there that's >appropriate. It's easy enough to assume that a lot of what you need to do >regarding setup will be done for you when you install a package, but this >isn't really the case with Mailman (by necessity). That sounds good, but evidently, judging from the number of Debian/Ubuntu packge users who come to this list with mail delivery issues because they have ended up with some Postfix configuration that combines Mailman aliases and postfix_to_mailman.py in incompatible ways, people don't look at the Debian documentation. They look at our installation manual or some incompatible web HowTo and wind up with a mess. I wish they all would read and comprehend the FAQ at . And, while I'm wishing, sometimes I wish I were less compulsive about this and could just refer them to that FAQ and forget about it. >ONe of the reasons why installing from source is not exactly >straight-forward is that Debian has conventions for things like the user >accounts used for specific things. If you're going to compile Mailman >from source on a Debian-based system, you'll need to either undermine a >lot of other things, or supply the appropriate configure flags so that >Mailman uses the accounts that Debian uses. Which, along with postfix_to_mailman.py, is a large part of why people should heed the above FAQ. >There were some other bits and pieces specific to the multiple hosts >aspect of it. IN particular, there was a patch I was applying to add the >domain as a suffix so that the same list name could be used across >domains. I'm not sure if that patch is now the virtual hosts branch or if >it's something else. If the patches are those referred to at , the branch at is based on those but includes several updates and fixes. If they are from , they are someone elses work. >All this was a product of many days of slavery and lots of helpful advice >from this list, which you can read at the following threads (don't know >why they split): > >http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-October/067354.html >http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-October/067363.html >http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-October/067364.html You actually missed one: The reason the thread is split is you were initially moderated. Your replies to my posts were Cc'd to me, and my replies to those reached the list before your replies were approved and reached the list. Pipermail threading sometimes fails if the referenced message (In-Reply-To: or References:) is not in the Pipermail archive at the time the referencing message is archived. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dave at fiteyes.com Wed May 16 01:39:49 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 19:39:49 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Geoff Shang wrote: > > > >I've done several Mailman installs under Debian and Ubuntu and have had > >minimal problems. The key in my opinion is to look at the installation > >guide and make sure you actually do everything that's listed there that's > >appropriate. It's easy enough to assume that a lot of what you need to do > >regarding setup will be done for you when you install a package, but this > >isn't really the case with Mailman (by necessity). > > > > That sounds good, but evidently, judging from the number of > Debian/Ubuntu packge users who come to this list with mail delivery > issues because they have ended up with some Postfix configuration that > combines Mailman aliases and postfix_to_mailman.py in incompatible > ways, people don't look at the Debian documentation. They look at our > installation manual or some incompatible web HowTo and wind up with a > mess. > > I wish they all would read and comprehend the FAQ at > . > > And, while I'm wishing, sometimes I wish I were less compulsive about > this and could just refer them to that FAQ and forget about it. > > I'm one member of the list who is extremely grateful for your compulsion. In my opinion, your help on this list is an invaluable asset to the Mailman community. Without your compulsive help, the Mailman user community would be tremendously disadvantaged compared to its current status. From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 16 07:57:54 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 22:57:54 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15rc1 released Message-ID: <4FB341E2.8040808@msapiro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am happy to announce the first release candidate for Mailman 2.1.15. Python 2.4 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.6 is recommended. This release should work with Python 2.7, but has not been tested with that version. This release includes minor security enhancements, new features and bug fixes. See the Changelog at for more details. Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites. For more information, please see: http://www.list.org http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman Mailman 2.1.15rc1 can be downloaded from https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/ http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/ It is anticipated that the 2.1.15 final release will be on or about June 13. Bugs found between now and then will be fixed if possible, but I hope that most if not all changes between now and June 13 will be i18n updates. Please send any updates to the templates and/or message catalogs in the 2.1.15rc1 release directly to me no later than June 11. - -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) iD8DBQFPs0HiVVuXXpU7hpMRAhEfAKDHkpFORnL9a6ka3RRn4WP8m7EsHgCcCKFi C17WrK2wc2irrXn9Gp2ju8I= =5wvM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hitbrb at gmail.com Tue May 15 17:39:03 2012 From: hitbrb at gmail.com (Bernardo - HIT) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 12:39:03 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Basic Mailing Lists vulnerable ? Message-ID: Emails from a group in my "Basic Mailing List 'can be found and read by/from Google and other search engines. How can I do to hide these e-mails/group, so that others can not read them? At this way, any one can read the emails. I didn't found any options about it.Some one can help me ? Thks. From rafael at purdue.edu Wed May 16 02:37:54 2012 From: rafael at purdue.edu (Rafael Lang) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 20:37:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe one user from many lists Message-ID: <4FB2F6E2.5070600@purdue.edu> Hi Mailmen and -women, I'd like to administrate some ~20 email lists of a team of people working together via mailman. Once a user leaves the team, I should unsubscribe this user from all lists that he's on. How do I do this without having to click through 20 web interfaces? First I thought, hey, I simply send an unsubscribe email, just like the subscribe email. Well, that doesn't work though, since unsubscription always requires the user password, which I don't have of course. So I searched around and found this thread: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-July/037815.html about exactly this. Now, that suggests a global change by patching a python script. But since the mail server I'm using is actually for a whole institute, the administrator probably has little interest to globally change his Mailman/Commands/cmd_unsubscribe.py just because of my 20 mailing lists, in particular since some of his other lists may be more security sensitive than mine. In addition, if I try to patch this file rather than having some patch from somebody who actually knows python ;-) he probably won't like it anyway... So I continued searching and stumbled across the possibility of doing this via wget: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041214.html and http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041220.html Wow, that would be fantastic! :-) I could simply shell script that, not even worrying whether the user is subscribed to all 20 lists and just batch-unsubscribe (if the user wouldn't be on a given list, nothing would happen, so that's OK) Now, I'm not super sure I got the command line right, this is what I tried: wget --post-data="adminpw=foobar&unsubscribees=me at somewhere.edu" http://serveraddress/mailman/admin/mailinglistname/members/members/remove and I also tried to directly enter http://serveraddress/mailman/admin/mailinglistname/members/members/remove?adminpw=foobar&unsubscribees=me at somewhere.edu into my browser. In both cases what I got back was: Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. and now I'm lost :-\ Can somebody help me? How can I unsubscribe a given user from a couple of mailing lists at the same time without having to go through the clumsy web interface for each of the mailing lists? Your help is greatly appreciated - thank you very much! Kind regards, Rafael From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 16 08:22:33 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 23:22:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Basic Mailing Lists vulnerable ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bernardo - HIT wrote: >Emails from a group in my "Basic Mailing List 'can be found and read >by/from Google and other search engines. How can I do to hide these >e-mails/group, so that others can not read them? At this way, any one can >read the emails. In the web admin interface, set Archiving Options -> archive_private to Private. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 16 08:47:21 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 23:47:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe one user from many lists In-Reply-To: <4FB2F6E2.5070600@purdue.edu> Message-ID: Rafael Lang wrote: > >Now, I'm not super sure I got the command >line right, this is what I tried: > >wget --post-data="adminpw=foobar&unsubscribees=me at somewhere.edu" >http://serveraddress/mailman/admin/mailinglistname/members/members/remove > >and I also tried to directly enter > >http://serveraddress/mailman/admin/mailinglistname/members/members/remove?adminpw=foobar&unsubscribees=me at somewhere.edu > >into my browser. In both cases what I got back was: > > >Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9 >

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9

>

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

> >

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this >problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been >explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the >Mailman error logs. > > >and now I'm lost :-\ Can somebody help me? How can I unsubscribe a given >user from a couple of mailing lists at the same time without having to >go through the clumsy web interface for each of the mailing lists? It appears that you don't have command line access to Mailman, so the obvious bin/remove_members --fromall user at example.com isn't something you can do. That probably also means you don't have access to Mailman's error log to provide the traceback, however, I can say what the issue might be. Your URLs are wrong. There should not be two occurrences of /members in the URL. The 'bug' however is that the script assumes there are values for the check boxes on the form. Thus, you need something like wget --post-data="adminpw=foobar&send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner=0&send_unsub_ack_to_this_batch=0&unsubscribees=me at somewhere.edu" http://serveraddress/mailman/admin/mailinglistname/members/remove or http://serveraddress/mailman/admin/mailinglistname/members/remove?adminpw=foobar&send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner=0&send_unsub_ack_to_this_batch=0&unsubscribees=me at somewhere.edu -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Wed May 16 09:27:40 2012 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 16:27:40 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87obpor3f7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Mark Sapiro writes: > > That sounds good, Be fair, Mark. :-) When the distro package works, it *is* good. And it works most of the time AFAIK. > but evidently, judging from the number of Debian/Ubuntu packge > users who come to this list with mail delivery issues because they > have ended up with some Postfix configuration that combines Mailman > aliases and postfix_to_mailman.py in incompatible ways, people > don't look at the Debian documentation. Well, that's hardly surprising. I've almost never found Debian package documentation useful. But that's usually because it's unneeded and therefore nonexistent. Still, the result is that I rarely even look for it, creature of habit (or lack thereof) that I am. Is the Debian packager here? Or maybe we (== me FVO me in "sometime in the summer *if* I'm reminded") should go talk to them, and suggest improvements to the package (for example, their debconf procedures and the post- installation caveats that are displayed). Maybe improve documents (including our own -- our web pages should detect Debian/Ubuntu and Red Hat/Fedora hosted browsers and display big "You probably don't want to read this, read your distro's docs instead" warnings!) From jerome at jolimont.fr Wed May 16 09:44:52 2012 From: jerome at jolimont.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me?=) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 09:44:52 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: <87obpor3f7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87obpor3f7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: Le 2012-05-16 09:27, Stephen J. Turnbull a ?crit?: > Maybe improve documents > (including our own -- our web pages should detect Debian/Ubuntu and > Red Hat/Fedora hosted browsers and display big "You probably don't > want to read this, read your distro's docs instead" warnings!) Regarding this specific item, you shouldn't bother : there are chances that the mailman installation is on a server which is not the machine used to browse the documentation. However, you could leave this note to anyone : "If you installed from a distro packege, you probably don't want to read this, read your distro's docs instead". Which would be kinda like having that specific entry in the FAQ moved to the top, blinking bold red. Anyway, collaborating with the packagers to improve packages and avoid troubles in the first place is of course the best, yet time-costly. -- J?r?me From stephen at xemacs.org Wed May 16 10:45:23 2012 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 17:45:23 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: References: <87obpor3f7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87ipfwqzto.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> J?r?me writes: > Anyway, collaborating with the packagers to improve packages and avoid > troubles in the first place is of course the best, yet time-costly. Ah, but Mark's time is the (second-most? :-)[1] valuable resource we have. That's why I've more or less volunteered. Footnotes: [1] Guess what's #1! From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Wed May 16 12:05:42 2012 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 11:05:42 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120516100542.GJ4721@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 04:31:41PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > That sounds good, but evidently, judging from the number of > Debian/Ubuntu packge users who come to this list with mail delivery > issues because they have ended up with some Postfix configuration that > combines Mailman aliases and postfix_to_mailman.py in incompatible > ways They should be using Exim, and not the monstrosity that is pkg-exim4... ( http://wiki.debian.org/DefaultMTA#Popcon_report_and_install_size ) (I have a deep dislike of Postfix, my solution to dealing with postfix is `postconf -n > /root/postfix-perversions` and then `aptitude install exim4-daemon-heavy`) There does seem to be a disproportionate amount of postfix queries on this list, yes. > people don't look at the Debian documentation. But they don't. Part of this I think falls in to how apt handles STDOUT during an installation. Imagine, if you will, installing thirty or so packages, and each one, as it crops up, drops out a line or two; they're not going to be seen, necessarily. Rather than "ah, you should read your apt.log", my approach would be to amalgamate all of those to the end -- something I think Homebrew (and most Ruby Gems I've seen) does fantastically well. > They look at our > installation manual or some incompatible web HowTo and wind up with a > mess. > > I wish they all would read and comprehend the FAQ at > . I thought it was exim-users, or similar that would have in the /listinfo/ page something to the effect of, "use pkg-exim4-users if you're a Debianista" -- that seems to have gone now. I think Nigel's on this list; am I mis-remembering? > >ONe of the reasons why installing from source is not exactly > >straight-forward is that Debian has conventions for things like the user > >accounts used for specific things. If you're going to compile Mailman > >from source on a Debian-based system, you'll need to either undermine a > >lot of other things, or supply the appropriate configure flags so that > >Mailman uses the accounts that Debian uses. FWIW, I tend to use the Debian maintainers' versions of Exim, but have a couple of patches that are manually applied (well, the deployment system does them for me). Packaged versions of software may not always be the most up-to date version, but, for instance, IIRC, the XSS exploit was fixed-up fairly quickly after announcement (the heads-up probably helped) -- certainly more quickly than the time it would have taken for me to manually apply the patch, 'properly' (rather than doing it from mutt...). (If I wanted cutting edge, I'd use nightly/trunk from VCS... if it wasn't bzr (never been able to get my head around it).) -- "It is lack of confidence, more than anything else, that kills a civilisation. We can destroy ourselves by cynicism and disillusion, just as effectively as by bombs." -- Kenneth Clark From odhiambo at gmail.com Wed May 16 16:45:54 2012 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 17:45:54 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.15rc1 released In-Reply-To: <4FB341E2.8040808@msapiro.net> References: <4FB341E2.8040808@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I am happy to announce the first release candidate for Mailman 2.1.15. > > Python 2.4 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.6 is recommended. > This release should work with Python 2.7, but has not been tested with > that version. > > This release includes minor security enhancements, new features and > bug fixes. See the Changelog at > for more details. > Do I still need these patches for 2.1.15: htdig-patch indexing-patch I can't seem to find them though:( -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email. From rafael at purdue.edu Wed May 16 16:54:19 2012 From: rafael at purdue.edu (Rafael Lang) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 10:54:19 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe one user from many lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FB3BF9B.3090404@purdue.edu> Hi Mark, doh - a simple typo on my end, you're right! So I now use wget for both (batch) subscription and unsubscription, this works like a charm. Very nice. Thank you very much! Cheers, Rafael On 05/16/2012 02:47 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Rafael Lang wrote: >> >> Now, I'm not super sure I got the command >> line right, this is what I tried: >> >> wget --post-data="adminpw=foobar&unsubscribees=me at somewhere.edu" >> http://serveraddress/mailman/admin/mailinglistname/members/members/remove >> >> and I also tried to directly enter >> >> http://serveraddress/mailman/admin/mailinglistname/members/members/remove?adminpw=foobar&unsubscribees=me at somewhere.edu >> >> into my browser. In both cases what I got back was: >> >> >> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9 >>

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9

>>

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

>> >>

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this >> problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been >> explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the >> Mailman error logs. >> >> >> and now I'm lost :-\ Can somebody help me? How can I unsubscribe a given >> user from a couple of mailing lists at the same time without having to >> go through the clumsy web interface for each of the mailing lists? > > > It appears that you don't have command line access to Mailman, so the > obvious > > bin/remove_members --fromall user at example.com > > isn't something you can do. That probably also means you don't have > access to Mailman's error log to provide the traceback, however, I can > say what the issue might be. Your URLs are wrong. There should not be > two occurrences of /members in the URL. The 'bug' however is that the > script assumes there are values for the check boxes on the form. Thus, > you need something like > > wget > --post-data="adminpw=foobar&send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner=0&send_unsub_ack_to_this_batch=0&unsubscribees=me at somewhere.edu" > http://serveraddress/mailman/admin/mailinglistname/members/remove > > or > > http://serveraddress/mailman/admin/mailinglistname/members/remove?adminpw=foobar&send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner=0&send_unsub_ack_to_this_batch=0&unsubscribees=me at somewhere.edu > From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 16 17:19:43 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 08:19:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15rc1 released In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Odhiambo Washington wrote: > >Do I still need these patches for 2.1.15: > >htdig-patch >indexing-patch > >I can't seem to find them though:( My version of these patches has been combined into a single index_htdig.patch which you can find at and , however I haven't yet made a 2.1.15 version of this patch, but the 2.1.14 version should apply with only line number offsets. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From odhiambo at gmail.com Wed May 16 17:50:33 2012 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 18:50:33 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15rc1 released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > > >Do I still need these patches for 2.1.15: > > > >htdig-patch > >indexing-patch > > > >I can't seem to find them though:( > > > My version of these patches has been combined into a single > index_htdig.patch which you can find at > and , however I haven't yet > made a 2.1.15 version of this patch, but the 2.1.14 version should > apply with only line number offsets. > > > Please let me know when these patches are updated. I can then start testing 2.1.5. I wouldn't want to inconvenience those who use the web-based search. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email. From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 16 18:03:03 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 09:03:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15rc1 released In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Odhiambo Washington wrote: >> >Please let me know when these patches are updated. I can then start testing >2.1.5. >I wouldn't want to inconvenience those who use the web-based search. In the mean time, you can just apply the patch. You should see only line number offsets and no rejects when applying this patch, and it should work. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From misterbhatt at gmail.com Wed May 16 18:56:07 2012 From: misterbhatt at gmail.com (Amit Bhatt) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 22:26:07 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sevier Issue with mails, are these compromised? References: <1D16FA44D05C453DA67DC13B886BF720@amit> Message-ID: I've also come to know there are installer script available to get rid of this problem, is it so? I am also suggested to use throttling. Does it solve such issues? Regards, Amit Bhatt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Stone" To: Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Sevier Issue with mails, are these compromised? > On Mon, 14 May 2012, Amit Bhatt wrote: > >> Today, I've got an E-Mail from them saying that as per the mail policy, >> our members can send 500 mails per hour but we are exceeding the number >> of mails a day! > >> While the fact is we have around 360 members and we send hardly 50 to 60 >> messages in entire day of 24:00. > >> so, I am unable to understand what's wrong with us. Are some of our mails >> account got hacked and compromised? > > I suspect you don't understand how emails are counted. Each list message > to each recipinet probably counts as one email. If I'm understanding you > correctly, your are sending 50 to 60 messages per day to 360 users. 50 > times 360 is 18,000 outgoing messages per day. > >> Hostgator team has send me the number of messages and Email addresses >> sent from: >> -------------------------- >> sayeverything-bounces at sayeverything.org: 11,655 > > That fits with my assumption above. > > -- Larry Stone > lstone19 at stonejongleux.com > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/misterbhatt%40gmail.com From dave at fiteyes.com Thu May 17 00:30:37 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 18:30:37 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sevier Issue with mails, are these compromised? In-Reply-To: References: <1D16FA44D05C453DA67DC13B886BF720@amit> Message-ID: Are you referring to the problem that your daily email traffic is 11,655 or more and your host has specific quotas that limit your email volume? If the quota is 500 per hour, that is 12,000 messages total in 24 hours. As you mentioned, your traffic can exceed that level (18,000 outgoing messages per day was mentioned in a prior message). So throttling will not totally solve your problem. It might help a little, but it doesn't sound like a long term solution. I have no idea how an installer script could possibly help. I would say that's likely a misunderstanding. Don't expect an installer script to magically reduce your traffic level or increase your quota on your current host. An installer script might be part of the solution if you move to a new host. Why don't you contact some potential new hosts and see who is willing to help you migrate your list to their service? Good luck. On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Amit Bhatt wrote: > I've also come to know there are installer script available to get rid of > this problem, is it so? I am also suggested to use throttling. Does it > solve such issues? > > > Regards, > > Amit Bhatt > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Stone" < > lstone19 at stonejongleux.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 10:11 PM > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Sevier Issue with mails, are these > compromised? > > > On Mon, 14 May 2012, Amit Bhatt wrote: >> >> Today, I've got an E-Mail from them saying that as per the mail policy, >>> our members can send 500 mails per hour but we are exceeding the number of >>> mails a day! >>> >> >> While the fact is we have around 360 members and we send hardly 50 to 60 >>> messages in entire day of 24:00. >>> >> >> so, I am unable to understand what's wrong with us. Are some of our >>> mails account got hacked and compromised? >>> >> >> I suspect you don't understand how emails are counted. Each list message >> to each recipinet probably counts as one email. If I'm understanding you >> correctly, your are sending 50 to 60 messages per day to 360 users. 50 >> times 360 is 18,000 outgoing messages per day. >> >> Hostgator team has send me the number of messages and Email addresses >>> sent from: >>> -------------------------- >>> sayeverything-bounces@**sayeverything.org: >>> 11,655 >>> >> >> That fits with my assumption above. >> >> -- Larry Stone >> lstone19 at stonejongleux.com >> ------------------------------**------------------------ >> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/** >> mailman-users%40python.org/ >> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/**mailman/options/mailman-users/** >> misterbhatt%40gmail.com >> > > ------------------------------**------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/** > mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/**mailman/options/mailman-users/** > dave%40fiteyes.com > From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 17 07:30:40 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 22:30:40 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15rc1 released In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark Sapiro wrote: > >In the mean time, you can just apply the > patch. You should >see only line number offsets and no rejects when applying this patch, >and it should work. There is now an index_htdig.patch.2.1.15 patch with correct line numbers for 2.1.15 at both and . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From odhiambo at gmail.com Thu May 17 11:31:06 2012 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 12:31:06 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15rc1 released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Mark Sapiro wrote: > > > >In the mean time, you can just apply the > > patch. You should > >see only line number offsets and no rejects when applying this patch, > >and it should work. > > > There is now an index_htdig.patch.2.1.15 patch with correct line > numbers for 2.1.15 at both and > . > > > Thanks. I have now installed this on my site. I see that it's still calls itself 2.1.14. I hope I didn't miss anything.. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email. From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 17 21:58:11 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 12:58:11 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15rc1 released In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Odhiambo Washington wrote: >Thanks. I have now installed this on my site. > >I see that it's still calls itself 2.1.14. I hope I didn't miss anything.. Where do you see it identify itself as 2.1.14? If properly installed, it should identify itself as 2.1.15rc1. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org Thu May 17 23:52:19 2012 From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 21:52:19 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration Message-ID: Hi, Following comments on this list over the last few days I thought I would try out Mailman/Htdig integration on my setup. I tried this on a sandbox VM I have here and everything seemed to go well, I did have to change some of the values for the URLs etc as I don't use the /mailman path in the URLs. Everything worked in test so I pushed the changes out to the production system. I did the following to enable: Set the Htdig integration to enabled in mm_cfg.py Run the arch command on the lists to generate the relevant pages with the search links at the top. Run the nightly_htdig script to generate the search indexes. Everything works fine, but if someone posts to a list it appears that the archive page gets re-generated without the search box at the top. I feel I have missed something blindingly obvious and I am going to kick myself when I find out what it is but at the moment I am still searching! Here is the relevant part of mm_cfg.py: USE_HTDIG = 1 HTDIG_FILES_URL = '/htdigimages/' HTDIG_HTSEARCH_PATH = '/usr/lib/cgi-bin/htsearch' HTDIG_RUNDIG_PATH = '/usr/bin/rundig' Any suggestions greatfully received. Thanks. Andrew. From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 18 00:43:51 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 15:43:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Andrew Hodgson wrote: > >Everything works fine, but if someone posts to a list it appears that the archive page gets re-generated without the search box at the top. I feel I have missed something blindingly obvious and I am going to kick myself when I find out what it is but at the moment I am still searching! Did you restart Mailman? If not, the old archtoc(nombox).html template is cached in ArchRunner. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org Fri May 18 11:18:14 2012 From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson) Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 09:18:14 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net] Sent: 17 May 2012 23:43 To: Andrew Hodgson; mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration >Andrew Hodgson wrote: >> >>Everything works fine, but if someone posts to a list it appears that the archive page gets re-generated without the search box at the top. I feel I have missed something blindingly obvious and I am going to >kick myself when I find out what it is but at the moment I am still searching! >Did you restart Mailman? If not, the old archtoc(nombox).html template >is cached in ArchRunner. That was it, once it was restarted everything worked fine! Thanks for that, I knew it was something simple! Andrew. From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org Fri May 18 14:59:23 2012 From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson) Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 12:59:23 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: Hi, One other question if I may: When I run nightly_htdig -v to get the search engine updated, I get the following output: htdig'ing archive of list: bcab-board /bin/mv: `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/root2word.db' and `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/root2word.db' are the same file /bin/mv: `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/word2root.db' and `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/word2root.db' are the same file /bin/mv: `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/synonyms.db' and `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/synonyms.db' are the same file Any suggestions? Thanks. Andrew. From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de Fri May 18 17:03:23 2012 From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn) Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 17:03:23 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15rc1 released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <594186B6863016D723234C52@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de> --On 17. Mai 2012 12:58:11 -0700 Mark Sapiro wrote: >> I see that it's still calls itself 2.1.14. I hope I didn't miss >> anything.. > > > Where do you see it identify itself as 2.1.14? If properly installed, > it should identify itself as 2.1.15rc1. Well, the web site still says 2.1.14 and I found this to explain it: mailman-2.1.15rc1]$ grep -r '2\.1\.14' * Mailman/Version.py:VERSION = '2.1.14' ... -- .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:. .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:. .:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:. From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 18 19:01:12 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 10:01:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15rc1 released In-Reply-To: <594186B6863016D723234C52@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de> Message-ID: Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > >--On 17. Mai 2012 12:58:11 -0700 Mark Sapiro wrote: > >>> I see that it's still calls itself 2.1.14. I hope I didn't miss >>> anything.. >> >> >> Where do you see it identify itself as 2.1.14? If properly installed, >> it should identify itself as 2.1.15rc1. > >Well, the web site still says 2.1.14 and I found this to explain it: > >mailman-2.1.15rc1]$ grep -r '2\.1\.14' * >Mailman/Version.py:VERSION =3D '2.1.14' You are correct. Somehow I did something out of sequence when packaging the release. I will correct the tarballs. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 18 21:27:26 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 12:27:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Andrew Hodgson wrote: > >One other question if I may: > >When I run nightly_htdig -v to get the search engine updated, I get the following output: > >htdig'ing archive of list: bcab-board >/bin/mv: `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/root2word.db' and `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/root2word.db' are the same file >/bin/mv: `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/word2root.db' and `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/word2root.db' are the same file >/bin/mv: `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/synonyms.db' and `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/synonyms.db' are the same file The nightly_htdig script runs the rundig shell script pointed to by mm_cfg.HTDIG_RUNDIG_PATH My version (3.2.0b6 + some patches from ) of that script doesn't look like it does those mv commands. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 18 22:25:02 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 13:25:02 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15rc1 released In-Reply-To: <4FB341E2.8040808@msapiro.net> References: <4FB341E2.8040808@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <4FB6B01E.3070306@msapiro.net> There was an issue in the tarballs I released for Mailman 2.1.15rc1. They didn't include the updated version information so they installed as version 2.1.14. This should not cause problems other than the version displaying incorrectly. If the tarball was installed as an upgrade over a 2.1.14 installation, the update script would not run to update list attributes, but the lists would be updated when they are later instantiated so this shouldn't be a problem. The release tarballs at https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/ http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/ have all been replaced with the correct one. There is still an issue with the bzr branch on Launchpad in that the 2.1.15rc1 tag is on revision 1354 instead of 1355, but that will be fixed soon. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org Fri May 18 23:38:33 2012 From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson) Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 21:38:33 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: 18 May 2012 20:27 To: Andrew Hodgson; mailman-users at python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration >Andrew Hodgson wrote: >> >>One other question if I may: >> >>/bin/mv: >>`/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/synonyms.db' and >>`/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/synonyms.db' are >>the same file >The nightly_htdig script runs the rundig shell script pointed to by mm_cfg.HTDIG_RUNDIG_PATH >My version (3.2.0b6 + some patches from >) of that script doesn't look like it does those mv commands. Weird. I am using the Debian version but have downloaded the source and it has the following in the rundig script: case "$alt" in -a) ( cd $DBDIR && test -f db.docdb.work && for f in *.work do mv -f $f `basename $f .work` done test -f db.words.db.work_weakcmpr && mv -f db.words.db.work_weakcmpr db.words.db_weakcmpr) ;; esac The nightly_htdig script doesn't I believe seem to use the -a option but it looks as though that is being done anyway. The patch on the FTP site for the rundig command seems to fix another issue with the script. Andrew. From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org Fri May 18 23:51:45 2012 From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson) Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 21:51:45 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, This is a Debian specific issue, look at: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=506448 Andrew. From mark at msapiro.net Sat May 19 00:08:06 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 15:08:06 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1ac32707-771a-4818-9fb0-e7a7304ad0bb@email.android.com> Andrew Hodgson wrote: >Hi, > >This is a Debian specific issue, look at: > >http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=506448 > >Andrew. Aaah! Thanks for the info. -- Mark Sapiro Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From anotheranne at fables.co.za Fri May 18 23:50:37 2012 From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright) Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 23:50:37 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam? In-Reply-To: References: <20120426073944.GA24324@fables.co.za> Message-ID: <20120518215037.GB6061@fables.co.za> Hi, Have been offline for a goodly while hence tardy response to the thread that I started. comments lower down, but thanks to Brad, Richard, Mark, & Stephen for their input. On Fri, May 04, 2012 at 12:33:24AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Anne Wainwright > wrote: > > > I recently sent an invite to an unknown third party. > > Normally I agree with Brad Knowles on this kind of thing, but this > time I can't go 100%. > > People regularly do make contacts with third parties that they have > not previously met, with the intent of arranging mutually beneficial > activities. Heck, if you think about it, that's what you're doing > every time you make a first post to a mailing list. There is nothing > wrong with that in general, and there is nothing (morally) wrong with > that when done by email, to recipients carefully selected for high > probability of getting some interest. (From this point of view, > "double opt in" is just a useful, fail-safe litmus test for recipient > interest, not the moral imperative some seem to think it is.) > Obviously you think your mailing has passed that test. > > That said, it's bad business IMO (except in cases like a double opt-in > mailing list where every person has explicitly indicated interest in > receiving list posts). What *you* think isn't what really matters. > When done by mutual acquaintance, by phone, or even by form letter, > there are significant costs to making such contacts, especially when > you do the phoning yourself. You must really value the recipient to > go to such expense, even if small. > > There are no such costs to email, which means that using email as a > medium puts you in company with some real scum, who send out > unsolicited email indiscriminately, sometimes laden with malware or > phishing URLs. It's unfair, I suppose, but I'm not surprised if you > get classed with the scum on the basis of the only information the > recipient has about you as a businessperson: an email that they didn't > ask for. > > There's another problem. The ISPs are a pretty quick-on-the-trigger > bunch, too, as a couple of posters have noted. But if you're not > running a double opt-in list, you're not going to be able to get them > to change your minds about your list. Everything I know about them, > they'd rather lose half their clients' mail than get a complaint about > spam. And their customers are not well-informed enough to doubt the > ISPs when they blame somebody else for any problems with mail. Except > spam -- it's obvious to the customer that the spam is bogus, why is it > so hard for the ISP? You see their incentive, I suppose, and it works > against legitimate businesses unless they follow the ISPs' rules. > > I conclude that for an honest business, anything is a better way than > email to make first contact with a third party who doesn't know you. > I have sinned and stand repentant. I hate spam as much as anyone and we get plenty to deal with. Somehow the Viagra and get rich emails didn't seem to stand on the same level as a once-off invite. But as pointed out clearly an unasked for email from an unknown party is just that. In the light of the spam that we receive, which varies from worldwide mass mailings (viagra supplies from pharmacies in the USA, say) to lesser attempts (local suppliers of this & that product or service) there is no fuzzy line where the definition of spam rests, and much against my normal judgement where I see things in shades of grey, I am forced to make this a black and white decision on the basis of the definitions of spam made in the replies. So will make sure that this doesn't occur again and will make clear the distinction to other staff handling these issues. As an aside, I have to ask whether the 'invite' feature in Mailman has a function. If one has to have been in existing contact such that you can ask them if they would not object to an invite then one is in fact at the point where you can ask them point blank if you can subscribe them. Typically someone may query whether we have a specific book title, or whether one listed on an online catalogue is still available. The usual drill if this is unavailable is to say so and then recommend that they join our mailing list for which we will send details (an 'invite') on the basis that it may show up on a future catalogue. I do not see this as sending spam. Maybe you differ? I guess this may be considered a bit off-topic, comments welcome direct if you feel this is so. bestest Anne > Regards, > Steve > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/anotheranne%40fables.co.za From anotheranne at fables.co.za Sat May 19 00:14:14 2012 From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 00:14:14 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam? In-Reply-To: <20120426073944.GA24324@fables.co.za> References: <20120426073944.GA24324@fables.co.za> Message-ID: <20120518221414.GA7576@fables.co.za> Hi, For the record the following URL is of interest http://www.spamhaus.org/consumer/definition/ This clearly makes the point that spam is defined by two factors "A message is Spam only if it is both Unsolicited and Bulk" and being who they are their definition must carry some weight. In terms of their definition my mailing was not spam. Still, and I think Stephen made the point, there is also the consideration of good business practice to be considered. over & out for tonight. Anne On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 09:39:44AM +0200, Anne Wainwright wrote: > Hi, > > I recently sent an invite to an unknown third party. The invite came > from my mailman list, we gave full particulars of who and where we are. > We specifically advise that they are not at this stage subscribed to > anything and will have to follow the detailed instructions (ie confirm) > if they want to join the list. The third party is in the same trade as > us, and deals with the same specialities, a third party customer had > given me their address in good faith. > > This week my ISP contacts me with an upstream request from the national > backbone provider to in effect desist from sending spam. > > Looking at the email returned, it was to an @yahoo address, spamcop > seems to have detected spam on the basis of it being a mailman message, > I am not certain that it was not initiated by the recipient but the > official complaint originated from yahoo it seems (who should surely > know better). > > Subject: [196.26.208.190] Yahoo Abuse Report - FW:confirm > 3a35c56b531368da533112d96a9cb24c17cf6961 > > As I said in my reply, this is hardly spam, I did not send it out to > half a million addresses purchased on a cd. This makes a mockery of > genuine spam prevention efforts when one email from a genuine address > can be allowed to cause this. It > > I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, but what can I do > about this. Is this a common occurence? Are invites from mailman now > considered fair game for spam detection software and humans alike? > > bestest > Anne > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/anotheranne%40fables.co.za From mark at msapiro.net Sat May 19 03:11:16 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 18:11:16 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam? In-Reply-To: <20120518215037.GB6061@fables.co.za> Message-ID: Anne Wainwright wrote: > >As an aside, I have to ask whether the 'invite' feature in Mailman has a >function. If one has to have been in existing contact such that you can >ask them if they would not object to an invite then one is in fact at >the point where you can ask them point blank if you can subscribe them. My cycling club has a general discussion list for which subscription requires approval because it's limited to club members. If a new or renewing member checks the "I want to join the club's email list" box on the application form, we send an invitation. This avoids the problem of subscribing the wrong person or an invalid address to the list because of typos or unreadable handwriting (yes, we still accept snail-mailed forms with checks, although it's not our preferred method). Even when a club member emails the list owners asking to join the list, we sometimes send an invitation rather than just subscribing if we think there's a possibility the email was spoofed. I'm sure there are other use cases where invitations rather than direct subscriptions are appropriate/prudent. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at shub-internet.org Sat May 19 04:33:03 2012 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 21:33:03 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam? In-Reply-To: <20120518221414.GA7576@fables.co.za> References: <20120426073944.GA24324@fables.co.za> <20120518221414.GA7576@fables.co.za> Message-ID: <114C9072-EA76-4EF5-998F-EE371B361A0A@shub-internet.org> On May 18, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Anne Wainwright wrote: > For the record the following URL is of interest > > http://www.spamhaus.org/consumer/definition/ > > This clearly makes the point that spam is defined by two factors > > "A message is Spam only if it is both Unsolicited and Bulk" > > and being who they are their definition must carry some weight. In terms > of their definition my mailing was not spam. Still, and I think Stephen > made the point, there is also the consideration of good business > practice to be considered. Actually, if you go back to Mark's message where he said: As an additional FYI in this thread, Mailman sends invitations with a "Precedence: bulk" header. This can only be changed by modifying code. Then you will note that the message you sent does actually qualify on both counts -- it was most definitely unsolicited (by your own account), and unless you modified the source code then Mailman definitely marked those invitations as "bulk". Even if Mailman hadn't marked the messages as bulk per se, if you sent out invitations to more than one person, then that could also be classified as essentially being "bulk". There are features in Mailman that can be misused and abused in a wide variety of ways, and it is the responsibility of the Site Administrator(s) and the List Administrator(s) to make sure that they operate the software in an appropriate manner. For example, if you were using Mailman internally to your company and could guarantee that no one could ever get on any list unless they were an employee, then by the terms of the employment contract you might be able to do things that might otherwise be considered of a "spammy nature", like requiring that all employees be subscribed to certain lists that they can't unsubscribe from, sending out invitations to join mailing lists that they did not request, etc?. We have to allow for these kinds of things because not everyone uses Mailman in the same way for the same user community. And some types of actions are appropriate for certain user communities but not for others. We can't just disable or remove features simply because they are not appropriate for a particular user community. In essence, you're asking us to protect you against yourself, and there is a limit to how much of that we can do. At least, there is a limit to how much we can do if we want to keep the software usable for other people. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From stephen at xemacs.org Sat May 19 10:40:41 2012 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 17:40:41 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam? In-Reply-To: <20120518221414.GA7576@fables.co.za> References: <20120426073944.GA24324@fables.co.za> <20120518221414.GA7576@fables.co.za> Message-ID: <87396wr2ba.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Anne Wainwright writes: > This clearly makes the point that spam is defined by two factors > > "A message is Spam only if it is both Unsolicited and Bulk" That's true, but as far as I can remember definitions of UCE (unsolicited commercial email) have no such restriction to bulk. From stephen at xemacs.org Sat May 19 10:47:24 2012 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 17:47:24 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam? In-Reply-To: <20120518215037.GB6061@fables.co.za> References: <20120426073944.GA24324@fables.co.za> <20120518215037.GB6061@fables.co.za> Message-ID: <871umgr203.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Anne Wainwright writes: > I have sinned and stand repentant. I hate spam as much as anyone and we > get plenty to deal with. Somehow the Viagra and get rich emails didn't > seem to stand on the same level as a once-off invite. They don't, from the point of view of the sender or society at large. But for the recipient.... > As an aside, I have to ask whether the 'invite' feature in Mailman has a > function. Sure. As Mark points out, it confirms the intention of the user to join, which gives you the "double opt-in" property that gives a conservative litmus test for "not spam". I think it might be a useful question to ask, "how can the invite feature be made more functional?" In particular, if you've written a careful email, answering an inquiry, I see nothing spammy about adding a Mailman invite to that ... if it were possible, which currently it isn't, from any mail client I know of. OTOH, you could write that email using Mailman's "invite" interface, but I bet you'd get tired of that real quick. From anotheranne at fables.co.za Sat May 19 11:13:40 2012 From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 11:13:40 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam? In-Reply-To: <114C9072-EA76-4EF5-998F-EE371B361A0A@shub-internet.org> References: <20120426073944.GA24324@fables.co.za> <20120518221414.GA7576@fables.co.za> <114C9072-EA76-4EF5-998F-EE371B361A0A@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <20120519091340.GA20629@fables.co.za> Hi, On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 09:33:03PM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote: > On May 18, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Anne Wainwright wrote: > > > For the record the following URL is of interest > > > > http://www.spamhaus.org/consumer/definition/ > > > > This clearly makes the point that spam is defined by two factors > > > > "A message is Spam only if it is both Unsolicited and Bulk" > > > > and being who they are their definition must carry some weight. In terms > > of their definition my mailing was not spam. Still, and I think Stephen > > made the point, there is also the consideration of good business > > practice to be considered. > > Actually, if you go back to Mark's message where he said: > > As an additional FYI in this thread, Mailman sends invitations > with a "Precedence: bulk" header. This can only be changed by > modifying code. Thanks for clarifying that, Brad, I wasn't sure what the import of Mark's messsage was. Why would this not be set to 'list' rather than 'bulk'? Just interested bestest Anne > > Then you will note that the message you sent does actually qualify on both counts -- it was most definitely unsolicited (by your own account), and unless you modified the source code then Mailman definitely marked those invitations as "bulk". > > Even if Mailman hadn't marked the messages as bulk per se, if you sent out invitations to more than one person, then that could also be classified as essentially being "bulk". > > > There are features in Mailman that can be misused and abused in a wide variety of ways, and it is the responsibility of the Site Administrator(s) and the List Administrator(s) to make sure that they operate the software in an appropriate manner. > > For example, if you were using Mailman internally to your company and could guarantee that no one could ever get on any list unless they were an employee, then by the terms of the employment contract you might be able to do things that might otherwise be considered of a "spammy nature", like requiring that all employees be subscribed to certain lists that they can't unsubscribe from, sending out invitations to join mailing lists that they did not request, etc?. > > We have to allow for these kinds of things because not everyone uses Mailman in the same way for the same user community. And some types of actions are appropriate for certain user communities but not for others. We can't just disable or remove features simply because they are not appropriate for a particular user community. > > In essence, you're asking us to protect you against yourself, and there is a limit to how much of that we can do. At least, there is a limit to how much we can do if we want to keep the software usable for other people. > > -- > Brad Knowles > LinkedIn Profile: > From Richard at Damon-Family.org Sat May 19 17:46:20 2012 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 11:46:20 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam? In-Reply-To: <20120518221414.GA7576@fables.co.za> References: <20120426073944.GA24324@fables.co.za> <20120518221414.GA7576@fables.co.za> Message-ID: <4FB7C04C.20808@Damon-Family.org> On 5/18/12 6:14 PM, Anne Wainwright wrote: > Hi, > > For the record the following URL is of interest > > http://www.spamhaus.org/consumer/definition/ > > This clearly makes the point that spam is defined by two factors > > "A message is Spam only if it is both Unsolicited and Bulk" > > and being who they are their definition must carry some weight. In terms > of their definition my mailing was not spam. Still, and I think Stephen > made the point, there is also the consideration of good business > practice to be considered. > > over & out for tonight. > > Anne > I will point out that from the recipients point of view, a mailman invite looks to be "Bulk", they have no way to know if you sent it specifically to them or to a large list. A place like spamhaus can use "bulk" as part of their criteria, and see if essentially the same message is sent out repeatedly, an individual recipient generally can not, so their version of the "bulk" criteria is does it look like a mass mailing. One way around this is rather than us the mailman invite feature, write a personal email where you "invite" the person to subscribe, giving the url of the subscription page as a pointer. While you can't prevent someone from pressing the "This is spam" button, if you have done some pre-vetting to be sure the person is likely interested, and made the message clearly personal and not bulk, will minimize the chances of them doing so. -- Richard Damon From shop at justbrits.com Sat May 19 18:22:53 2012 From: shop at justbrits.com (" Just Brits " Shop) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 11:22:53 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam? In-Reply-To: <4FB7C04C.20808@Damon-Family.org> References: <20120426073944.GA24324@fables.co.za> <20120518221414.GA7576@fables.co.za> <4FB7C04C.20808@Damon-Family.org> Message-ID: <4FB7C8DD.8020908@justbrits.com> <...> << On 5/19/2012 10:46 AM, Richard Damon wrote: I will point out that from the recipients point of view, a mailman invite looks to be "Bulk", they have no way to know if you sent it specifically to them or to a large list. <...> One way around this is rather than us the mailman invite feature, write a personal email where you "invite" the person to subscribe, giving the url of the subscription page as a pointer.>> Even tho I'm with a cPanel instal by serious "dumb" luck I having been doing exactly that for over a decade since I started my 1st List which was actually "begged" for ;-) by a bunch of folks on another Public List which did/does not allow attachments. I have no clue as to why I didn't just Mass Subscribe. I sent out Personal Invites with the Subscribe URL. Something about the Mass Sub. just didn't "feel" right. << While you can't prevent someone from pressing the "This is spam" button,>> I have just about reached the "breaking point" and maybe one (1) more and I'm gonna ban AOL (Yahoo not far behind these days) users. << if you have done some pre-vetting to be sure the person is likely interested, and made the message clearly personal and not bulk, will minimize the chances of them doing so.>> Absolutely agreed, Richard ! ! Thank you for posting something in this thread that applies to MM Users such as myself who ARE stuck behind cPanel :-[ :-) ! ! Ed Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com PS: Anyone interested in a slow ( 3- 4 /day) "Joke List" by MM, please drop me a note :-) ! ! Ooops, and/or a small Political List (Poly Sci101). From shop at justbrits.com Sat May 19 18:30:13 2012 From: shop at justbrits.com (" Just Brits " Shop) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 11:30:13 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filters In-Reply-To: <4FB1B74D.20902@bradakis.com> References: <4FB1B74D.20902@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <4FB7CA95.2030603@justbrits.com> << On 5/14/2012 8:54 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > So my mailing lists are getting hit by spam that goes to the lists > since it claims to be from some poor subscriber whose email got > hijacked. >> Mark, it's nowhere near as bad as the same type/subject Yahoo Lists ! ! ! > But to be more general, what are some of the current > best practices to filter out spam in a postfix mailman environment > on Linux? About 3 years or so, Bluehost started offering Spam Assassin and it has really done the job on my Lists. I actually cannot recall the last time I have seen a SPAM get through to a List. Ed Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com PS: Anyone interested in a slow ( 3- 4 /day) "Joke List" by MM, please drop me a note ! ! Ooops, and/or a small Political List (Poly Sci101). From mark at msapiro.net Sat May 19 19:24:11 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 10:24:11 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam? In-Reply-To: <20120519091340.GA20629@fables.co.za> References: <20120426073944.GA24324@fables.co.za> <20120518221414.GA7576@fables.co.za> <114C9072-EA76-4EF5-998F-EE371B361A0A@shub-internet.org> <20120519091340.GA20629@fables.co.za> Message-ID: <4FB7D73B.3040208@msapiro.net> On 5/19/2012 2:13 AM, Anne Wainwright wrote: > > Why would this not be set to 'list' rather than 'bulk'? List posts are sent with Precedence: list. Notices from Mailman, e.g. held message notices to an admin, invitations and welcome messages to users, password reminders, etc. are all sent with Precedence: bulk. Prior to Mailman 2.1, everything was sent with Precedence: bulk, even list posts. Comments in the Mailman 1.0 code say # semi-controversial: some don't want this included at all, others # want the value to be `list'. RFC 2076 (Feb 1997) says the Precedence: header is "non-standard, controversial, discouraged". See the RFC for the precise definition of these terms. We probably shouldn't be adding it at all, but as to why, other than the above code comment, some things are sent with Precedence: bulk you'd have to ask John Viega or someone with more knowledge of the history than I have. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at shub-internet.org Sat May 19 23:15:39 2012 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 16:15:39 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam? In-Reply-To: <20120519091340.GA20629@fables.co.za> References: <20120426073944.GA24324@fables.co.za> <20120518221414.GA7576@fables.co.za> <114C9072-EA76-4EF5-998F-EE371B361A0A@shub-internet.org> <20120519091340.GA20629@fables.co.za> Message-ID: On May 19, 2012, at 4:13 AM, Anne Wainwright wrote: > Thanks for clarifying that, Brad, I wasn't sure what the import of > Mark's messsage was. > > Why would this not be set to 'list' rather than 'bulk'? According to RFC 2076, the "Precedence:" header is "Non-standard, controversial, discouraged." RFC 3834 says: > - A responder MAY refuse to send a response to a subject message > which contains any header or content which makes it appear to the > responder that a response would not be appropriate. For instance, > if the subject message contained a Precedence header field > [I4.RFC2076] with a value of "list" the responder might guess that > the traffic had arrived from a mailing list, and would not respond > if the response were only intended for personal messages. For > similar reasons, a responder MAY ignore any subject message with a > List-* field [I5.RFC2369]. (Because Precedence is not a standard > header field, and its use and interpretation vary widely in the > wild, no particular responder behavior in the presence of > Precedence is recommended by this specification.) and: > 3.1.8. Precedence field > > A response MAY include a Precedence field [I4.RFC2076] in order to > discourage responses from some kinds of responders which predate this > specification. The field-body of the Precedence field MAY consist of > the text "junk", "list", "bulk", or other text deemed appropriate by > the responder. Because the Precedence field is non-standard and its > interpretation varies widely, the use of Precedence is not > specifically recommended by this specification, nor does this > specification recommend any particular value for that field. Historically, the "Precedence:" header has generally only had one standard value that I know of, if it was used at all -- and that value is "bulk". The original intent of this header (and this setting) was to help automated systems that receive mail messages to determine whether or not a message was originated by a human being or was perhaps automatically generated or handled through a mailing list -- at the time, there was no such negative connotation to the word "bulk" and no one would have distinguished between "bulk" mail and mail sent through a "list". Over the years, things have changed, but the usage of this particular header has only gotten murkier. Mailman is one of the few programs on the Internet that has been fairly consistent in the way it has handled this header. Of course, Mailman is only handling one end of the conversation, and it can't control what people on the other end do with the header. If we change the way Mailman works in this regard, we might break existing programs. If we don't change the way Mailman works in this regard, people on the other end might not understand what is really intended. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From dap1 at bellsouth.net Sun May 20 23:52:42 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 17:52:42 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question Message-ID: <4FB967AA.5080006@bellsouth.net> After migrating my OS from Mandriva to CentOS I noticed that SSL mailman web access is no longer used. Is this something that is no longer necessary or do I still have more configuring to do? Do I really need SSL or is the management of web admin out of the box sufficient? Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 21 02:17:21 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 17:17:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: <4FB967AA.5080006@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >After migrating my OS from Mandriva to CentOS I noticed that SSL mailman >web access is no longer used. Is this something that is no longer >necessary or do I still have more configuring to do? Do I really need >SSL or is the management of web admin out of the box sufficient? If you care about sending your admin and moderator passwords in the clear over HTTP, you will want to use HTTPS. See The FAQ at for instructions on how to set this up. Don't omit steps 2 and 3. these are important. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dap1 at bellsouth.net Mon May 21 15:46:48 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 09:46:48 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBA4748.5060102@bellsouth.net> Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I can't find any of this on the old server so I cannot understand what I did to make it work. I am not an Apache expert so I am having trouble with step 1 and hope someone can get me over this hump. I have SSL working as I can access the admin pages using https. However, I can also access it using http so I am not forcing SSL. I did not quite understand the looping caveat in option one so I tried the rewrite rule in option 2. That did not seem to do anything but there was no indication in the instructions where that should go. I have a .conf file that loads the SSL module and sets up the certificates. I added the rewrite code to that file. On 5/20/2012 8:17 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> After migrating my OS from Mandriva to CentOS I noticed that SSL mailman >> web access is no longer used. Is this something that is no longer >> necessary or do I still have more configuring to do? Do I really need >> SSL or is the management of web admin out of the box sufficient? > > If you care about sending your admin and moderator passwords in the > clear over HTTP, you will want to use HTTPS. See The FAQ at > for instructions on how to set this up. > Don't omit steps 2 and 3. these are important. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From frank.bell at washburn.edu Mon May 21 16:30:20 2012 From: frank.bell at washburn.edu (Frank Bell) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 09:30:20 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: <4FBA4748.5060102@bellsouth.net> References: <4FBA4748.5060102@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <4FBA517C.8030206@washburn.edu> try an alias Alias http://lists.washburn.edu/mailman/admin / https://lists.washburn.edu/mailman/admin / Thank you, Frank Bell Application Systems Admin ISS 785-670-2334 1 Cor 15:10 "By the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain . . .." On 5/21/2012 8:46 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote: > Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I can't find any of this on the old > server so I cannot understand what I did to make it work. I am not an > Apache expert so I am having trouble with step 1 and hope someone can > get me over this hump. I have SSL working as I can access the admin > pages using https. However, I can also access it using http so I am not > forcing SSL. I did not quite understand the looping caveat in option one > so I tried the rewrite rule in option 2. That did not seem to do > anything but there was no indication in the instructions where that > should go. I have a .conf file that loads the SSL module and sets up the > certificates. I added the rewrite code to that file. > > On 5/20/2012 8:17 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> Dennis Putnam wrote: >>> After migrating my OS from Mandriva to CentOS I noticed that SSL mailman >>> web access is no longer used. Is this something that is no longer >>> necessary or do I still have more configuring to do? Do I really need >>> SSL or is the management of web admin out of the box sufficient? >> If you care about sending your admin and moderator passwords in the >> clear over HTTP, you will want to use HTTPS. See The FAQ at >> for instructions on how to set this up. >> Don't omit steps 2 and 3. these are important. >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/frank.bell%40washburn.edu From frank.bell at washburn.edu Mon May 21 17:34:37 2012 From: frank.bell at washburn.edu (Frank Bell) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 10:34:37 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: <4FBA517C.8030206@washburn.edu> References: <4FBA4748.5060102@bellsouth.net> <4FBA517C.8030206@washburn.edu> Message-ID: <4FBA608D.9040300@washburn.edu> sorry about that Alias http://lists.washburn.edu/mailman/admin https://lists.washburn.edu/mailman/admin Thank you, Frank Bell Application Systems Admin ISS 785-670-2334 1 Cor 15:10 "By the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain . . .." On 5/21/2012 9:30 AM, Frank Bell wrote: > > Alias http://lists.washburn.edu/mailman/admin From jose at legido.com Mon May 21 14:43:34 2012 From: jose at legido.com (Jose Legido) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 14:43:34 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't moderate requests Message-ID: Hi. (excuse me for my english) I can't moderate requests in mailman. I have requests Held Messages, I select discard and submit all data, but the message continue in Held Messages. I take a look in the logs but don't find nothing. any help? Thanks. From Mark.Dale at climatechange.gov.au Mon May 21 07:21:21 2012 From: Mark.Dale at climatechange.gov.au (Dale, Mark) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 15:21:21 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging failed Admin logins [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Message-ID: <90FFD4C15A91D940B3A36EBCB41963EE03F181725E@DCC-MAIL01.internal.pmc.gov.au> Hi All, I'm looking for a way to prevent the Mailman Admin login from getting bruted. I was thinking that I can set fail2ban to watch the logfiles and trigger an event after a certain number of failed logins from the same IP address, within a specified time period. I've had a look through the Mailman log files and can't see that Mailman writes anywhere for failed login attempts (to the Admin page). It seems that the best that can be done at the moment is to guess it from the POST entries in the Apache logs. Even there, a failed login just reloads the page and generates an Apache '200' (Okay) entry for the request. All I can think of at the moment is to hack the Mailman code so a failed login attempt sends the user to a new page rather than just reload the page. We could then tell fail2ban to watch the Apache access logs for records of those requests and trigger events off those. But that seems a bit untidy, and very 'unMailman' like. Does anyone have a suggestion for logging the time and IP address of failed login attempts? Best, Mark Dale ______________________________________________________________________ IMPORTANT: This message, and any attachments to it, contains information that is confidential and may also be the subject of legal professional or other privilege. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must not review, copy, disseminate or disclose its contents to any other party or take action in reliance of any material contained within it. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return email informing them of the mistake and delete all copies of the message from your computer system. ______________________________________________________________________ From tomislawl at gmail.com Mon May 21 14:19:33 2012 From: tomislawl at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Tomislav_Lueti=E6?=) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 14:19:33 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing options from list admin page Message-ID: hi. I've got a 2.1.14 Mailman that I'm setting up for a computer-unsavvy group of people, and would like to remove a good deal of options available in the list admin page, setting a default value. From what I understand, this and similair pages are automatically generated by modules in /Mailman/Cgi, but so far I haven't found where this is generated. I don't mind getting dirty in python, but I would like some understanding of it before I jump in. thx for advice, tl From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 21 22:33:08 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 13:33:08 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: <4FBA608D.9040300@washburn.edu> Message-ID: Frank Bell wrote: > >Alias http://lists.washburn.edu/mailman/admin >https://lists.washburn.edu/mailman/admin Does this actually work? Apache documentation states the target of an Alias is a file path or directory path, not a URL path. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 21 22:38:42 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 13:38:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: <4FBA4748.5060102@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >I did not quite understand the looping caveat in option one >so I tried the rewrite rule in option 2. That did not seem to do >anything but there was no indication in the instructions where that >should go. I have a .conf file that loads the SSL module and sets up the >certificates. I added the rewrite code to that file. That's not where it belongs. One place to put it would be just ahead of wherever you have your Alias /pipermail/ and ScriptAlias /mailman/ mailman directives in /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf or /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman or wherever they are. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 21 22:40:28 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 13:40:28 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't moderate requests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jose Legido wrote: > >I can't moderate requests in mailman. >I have requests Held Messages, I select discard and submit all data, but >the message continue in Held Messages. >I take a look in the logs but don't find nothing. See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 21 22:47:03 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 13:47:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing options from list admin page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBAA9C7.8040508@msapiro.net> On 5/21/2012 5:19 AM, Tomislav Lueti? wrote: > > I've got a 2.1.14 Mailman that I'm setting up for a computer-unsavvy group > of people, and would like to remove a good deal of options available in the > list admin page, setting a default value. From what I understand, this and > similair pages are automatically generated by modules in /Mailman/Cgi, but > so far I haven't found where this is generated. I don't mind getting dirty > in python, but I would like some understanding of it before I jump in. There are two parts to this. Most, but not all of the various admin sub-pages are defined in Mailman/Gui/*.py where * is the name of the sub-page. The rest is in Mailman/Cgi/admin.py. Also, you can suppress sub-pages appearing in the admin GUI at all by redifining ADMIN_CATEGORIES in mm_cfg.py (See Defaults.py for the base list). The only problem is that the 'general' page will always appear as the default page even if you omit it from the list. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From frank.bell at washburn.edu Mon May 21 22:55:33 2012 From: frank.bell at washburn.edu (Frank Bell) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 15:55:33 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBAABC5.9040409@washburn.edu> It does for us. Thank you, Frank Bell Application Systems Admin ISS 785-670-2334 1 Cor 15:10 "By the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain . . .." On 5/21/2012 3:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Frank Bell wrote: >> Alias http://lists.washburn.edu/mailman/admin >> https://lists.washburn.edu/mailman/admin > > Does this actually work? Apache documentation states the target of an > Alias is a file path or directory path, not a URL path. > From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 21 23:09:55 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 14:09:55 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging failed Admin logins [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: <90FFD4C15A91D940B3A36EBCB41963EE03F181725E@DCC-MAIL01.internal.pmc.gov.au> Message-ID: Dale, Mark wrote: > >I've had a look through the Mailman log files and can't see that Mailman writes anywhere for failed login attempts (to the Admin page). Correct. >It seems that the best that can be done at the moment is to guess it from the POST entries in the Apache logs. > >Even there, a failed login just reloads the page and generates an Apache '200' (Okay) entry for the request. Since Mailman 2.1.14, a login failure generates a 401. This should be enough for a fail2ban regexp to identify these failures. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at shub-internet.org Mon May 21 23:17:46 2012 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:17:46 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging failed Admin logins [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: <90FFD4C15A91D940B3A36EBCB41963EE03F181725E@DCC-MAIL01.internal.pmc.gov.au> References: <90FFD4C15A91D940B3A36EBCB41963EE03F181725E@DCC-MAIL01.internal.pmc.gov.au> Message-ID: On May 21, 2012, at 12:21 AM, Dale, Mark wrote: > I'm looking for a way to prevent the Mailman Admin login from getting bruted. I was thinking that I can set fail2ban to watch the logfiles and trigger an event after a certain number of failed logins from the same IP address, within a specified time period. Keep in mind that if you have a reverse proxy for your web server (or maybe a firewall that does that kind of function for you), then all connections will seem to be coming from that IP address -- you're not going to want to put that in your fail2ban list. Customers at larger providers may be going through a proxy at their end, too -- again, banning by IP address can block a large number of people. I've used fail2ban, it's got some good features, but you do need to be aware of its weaknesses when you're designing the rules. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From dap1 at bellsouth.net Tue May 22 02:27:41 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 20:27:41 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBADD7D.5070907@bellsouth.net> That didn't seem to help either. This is what is in /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf # Directives for the mailman web interface RewriteEngine On RewriteCond %{HTTPS} Off RewriteRule ^(.*)$ https://%{HTTP_HOST}$1 [R,L] Alias /pipermail/ "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/" ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/" # For the archives Options +FollowSymLinks Order allow,deny Allow from all On 5/21/2012 4:38 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> I did not quite understand the looping caveat in option one >> so I tried the rewrite rule in option 2. That did not seem to do >> anything but there was no indication in the instructions where that >> should go. I have a .conf file that loads the SSL module and sets up the >> certificates. I added the rewrite code to that file. > > That's not where it belongs. One place to put it would be just ahead of > wherever you have your Alias /pipermail/ and ScriptAlias /mailman/ > mailman directives in /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf or > /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman or wherever they are. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 22 04:04:44 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 19:04:44 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: <4FBADD7D.5070907@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >That didn't seem to help either. This is what is in >/etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf > ># Directives for the mailman web interface > >RewriteEngine On >RewriteCond %{HTTPS} Off >RewriteRule ^(.*)$ https://%{HTTP_HOST}$1 [R,L] That should work assuming you want to redirect the entire site to https. Did you do "service httpd restart" after making the changes? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From parakrama1282 at gmail.com Tue May 22 04:50:40 2012 From: parakrama1282 at gmail.com (dhanushka ranasinghe) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 08:20:40 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list subscription issue Message-ID: Hi guys.... to suscribe to the mailing list i send the mail to list-request at lkx.com Then i get the mail with confirmation string , then i just reply to received mail with confirmation string in the subject line.. As a replay i get the mail like this [1] , But other mailing list in the same mailman gives the "Welcome to mailing list message" any idea what i suppose to do to fix the problem. [1] ---------------------------- The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your original message. - Results: Confirmation succeeded - Unprocessed: On 5/22/12, list-request at lkx.com > wrote: > Mailing list subscription confirmation notice for mailing list Commits > > We have received a request from user at lkx.com for subscription > of your email address, "user at lkx.com", to the list at lkx.com > mailing list. To confirm that you want to be added to this mailing > list, simply reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header > intact. > > Or include the following line -- and only the following line -- in a > message to list-request at lkx.com : > > confirm 96d4463b2042555066a1d6632b6848adad7b9278 > > Note that simply sending a `reply' to this message should work from > most mail readers, since that usually leaves the Subject: line in the > right form (additional "Re:" text in the Subject: is okay). > > If you do not wish to be subscribed to this list, please simply > disregard this message. If you think you are being maliciously > subscribed to the list, or have any other questions, send them to > list-owner at lkx.com . > Thank You From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 22 05:30:39 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 20:30:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list subscription issue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: dhanushka ranasinghe wrote: > >to suscribe to the mailing list i send the mail to list-request at lkx.com > >Then i get the mail with confirmation string , then i just reply to >received mail with confirmation string in the subject line.. > > >As a replay i get the mail like this [1] , But other mailing list in the >same mailman gives the "Welcome to mailing list message" > >any idea what i suppose to do to fix the problem. The list which sends a "results of your email commands" message with - Results: Confirmation succeeded in response to your confirmation email is configured to not send a welcome message. If you want to change this, set General Options -> send_welcome_message to Yes in the list's web admin interface. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dap1 at bellsouth.net Tue May 22 11:14:13 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 05:14:13 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBB58E5.7030105@bellsouth.net> I assume you mean the entire mailman site as opposed to the entire web site. Yes, that is what I want. Yes, it SHOULD work but doesn't. The main problem is that there are no errors anywhere I can find and I have no idea how to debug this. Yes, I restarted httpd and even rebooted out of desperation. On 5/21/2012 10:04 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> That didn't seem to help either. This is what is in >> /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf >> >> # Directives for the mailman web interface >> >> RewriteEngine On >> RewriteCond %{HTTPS} Off >> RewriteRule ^(.*)$ https://%{HTTP_HOST}$1 [R,L] > > That should work assuming you want to redirect the entire site to https. > > Did you do "service httpd restart" after making the changes? > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 22 20:25:49 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 11:25:49 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: <4FBB58E5.7030105@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >I assume you mean the entire mailman site as opposed to the entire web >site. No. I meant the entire web site. Just because you put something in /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf doesn't make it magically just apply to Mailman. It depends on where in httpd.conf that file is included. In a normal Centos distro, the Include conf.d/*.conf directive is in the Global Environment section of httpd.conf and thus anything in any of the included files affects or at least sets a default for the entire site. If you want to force https only for Mailman CGIs, your rewrite rule should be something like RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/mailman$1 [L,R] If you want to include forced https for public archive access (why would you?), maybe something like RewriteRule ^/pipermail(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/pipermail$1 [R] RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/mailman$1 [L,R] or RewriteRule ^/(mailman|pipermail)(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/$1$2 [L,R] would be appropriate. >Yes, that is what I want. Yes, it SHOULD work but doesn't. The >main problem is that there are no errors anywhere I can find and I have >no idea how to debug this. Have you looked in all the httpd logs (/var/log/httpd/*log)? What actually happens when you go to ? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From guilhermemunizdacunha at gmail.com Tue May 22 20:30:15 2012 From: guilhermemunizdacunha at gmail.com (Guilherme Cunha) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 15:30:15 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject) Message-ID: Hi The sender needs to receive email sent to mailing list... How can I do this? Guilherme Cunha From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 23 05:45:03 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 20:45:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender receive own posts - was: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Guilherme Cunha wrote: > >The sender needs to receive email sent to mailing list... > > >How can I do this? If the sender's address is a gmail/googlemail address, you can't. See the FAQ at . Otherwise, be sure the sender's option "Receive your own posts to the list?" is Yes. This is the same as the "not metoo" box being unchecked for the sender in the web admin Membership List. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dap1 at bellsouth.net Wed May 23 14:37:37 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 08:37:37 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBCDA11.9020209@bellsouth.net> Thanks and you are, of course, correct. I knew that but I was desperate to try to get something, anything, working. I did fix it but since the more generic version did not work, it is not a surprise that the more specific rule does not work either. Yes I did check all the logs I could thing of but nothing that indicates it even ran a rewrite rule. I don't see anything in the ssl_access or error logs either so that tells me ssl is never being used. Does that not imply that the rewrite engine is not working? When I use http://... it brings up the correct page. As I said originally, everything works if I use http or if I manually use https. It is forcing https that doesn't. Once again it seems to be pointing to the rewrite engine not working. On 5/22/2012 2:25 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> I assume you mean the entire mailman site as opposed to the entire web >> site. > > No. I meant the entire web site. Just because you put something in > /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf doesn't make it magically just apply to > Mailman. It depends on where in httpd.conf that file is included. > > In a normal Centos distro, the > > Include conf.d/*.conf > > directive is in the Global Environment section of httpd.conf and thus > anything in any of the included files affects or at least sets a > default for the entire site. > > If you want to force https only for Mailman CGIs, your rewrite rule > should be something like > > RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/mailman$1 [L,R] > > If you want to include forced https for public archive access (why > would you?), maybe something like > > RewriteRule ^/pipermail(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/pipermail$1 [R] > RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/mailman$1 [L,R] > > or > > RewriteRule ^/(mailman|pipermail)(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/$1$2 [L,R] > > would be appropriate. > > >> Yes, that is what I want. Yes, it SHOULD work but doesn't. The >> main problem is that there are no errors anywhere I can find and I have >> no idea how to debug this. > > Have you looked in all the httpd logs (/var/log/httpd/*log)? > > What actually happens when you go to > ? > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From guilhermemunizdacunha at gmail.com Wed May 23 15:43:27 2012 From: guilhermemunizdacunha at gmail.com (Guilherme Cunha) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 10:43:27 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The sender needs to receive email sent to mailing list... Message-ID: Hi The sender needs to receive email sent to mailing list... How can I do this? Guilherme Cunha From CNulk at scu.edu Wed May 23 16:48:50 2012 From: CNulk at scu.edu (C Nulk) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 07:48:50 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: <4FBCDA11.9020209@bellsouth.net> References: <4FBCDA11.9020209@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <4FBCF8D2.9000309@scu.edu> Hello Dennis, If you are using the CentOS 5 and installed Apache as part of the install, you should have a file called 'ssl.conf' in the '/etc/httpd/conf.d/' directory. Have you set up that file correctly? When I set up my system, I needed to make a few changes to that file. In my file, I have a virtual host ("_default_") and within the virtual host configuration there is a switch to turn on the SSL Engine called "SSLEngine" values are on or off. Make sure it is on. Also, make sure your certificates are correct in the file. For your ssl logs, the file may be pointing your logs to a different location other than /var/log/httpd, but I doubt it. Check to be sure. As for redirecting from http to https, here are my rules (in a file called mailman.conf in /etc/httpd/conf.d along with other mailman rules): RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ https://%{HTTP_HOST}/mailman/listinfo RedirectMatch ^[/]*$ https://%{HTTP_HOST}/mailman/listinfo although instead of %{HTTP_HOST} I have the actual hostname. I also don't bother with the rewrite rules, like turning the rewrite engine on etc.. I do load the rewrite_module ('modules/mod_rewrite.so) but so far, I have needed to use it. The Redirect set of commands use the mod_alias module. It seems to work for me. Good Luck, Chris On 5/23/2012 5:37 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote: > Thanks and you are, of course, correct. I knew that but I was desperate > to try to get something, anything, working. I did fix it but since the > more generic version did not work, it is not a surprise that the more > specific rule does not work either. > > Yes I did check all the logs I could thing of but nothing that indicates > it even ran a rewrite rule. I don't see anything in the ssl_access or > error logs either so that tells me ssl is never being used. Does that > not imply that the rewrite engine is not working? > > When I use http://... it brings up the correct page. As I said > originally, everything works if I use http or if I manually use https. > It is forcing https that doesn't. Once again it seems to be pointing to > the rewrite engine not working. > > On 5/22/2012 2:25 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> Dennis Putnam wrote: >>> I assume you mean the entire mailman site as opposed to the entire web >>> site. >> No. I meant the entire web site. Just because you put something in >> /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf doesn't make it magically just apply to >> Mailman. It depends on where in httpd.conf that file is included. >> >> In a normal Centos distro, the >> >> Include conf.d/*.conf >> >> directive is in the Global Environment section of httpd.conf and thus >> anything in any of the included files affects or at least sets a >> default for the entire site. >> >> If you want to force https only for Mailman CGIs, your rewrite rule >> should be something like >> >> RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/mailman$1 [L,R] >> >> If you want to include forced https for public archive access (why >> would you?), maybe something like >> >> RewriteRule ^/pipermail(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/pipermail$1 [R] >> RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/mailman$1 [L,R] >> >> or >> >> RewriteRule ^/(mailman|pipermail)(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/$1$2 [L,R] >> >> would be appropriate. >> >> >>> Yes, that is what I want. Yes, it SHOULD work but doesn't. The >>> main problem is that there are no errors anywhere I can find and I have >>> no idea how to debug this. >> Have you looked in all the httpd logs (/var/log/httpd/*log)? >> >> What actually happens when you go to >> ? >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cnulk%40scu.edu From dap1 at bellsouth.net Wed May 23 17:35:56 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 11:35:56 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: <4FBCF8D2.9000309@scu.edu> References: <4FBCDA11.9020209@bellsouth.net> <4FBCF8D2.9000309@scu.edu> Message-ID: <4FBD03DC.4010905@bellsouth.net> Hi Chris, Thanks for the reply. Yes, my SSL config is all working. Everything is fine if I manually use https. The problem is, using http is supposed to force https. I have not tried redirectmatch since I guess I didn't know about it until now. I'm not an Apache config expert so I'll have to investigate that. On 5/23/2012 10:48 AM, C Nulk wrote: > Hello Dennis, > > If you are using the CentOS 5 and installed Apache as part of the > install, you should have a file called 'ssl.conf' in the > '/etc/httpd/conf.d/' directory. Have you set up that file correctly? > When I set up my system, I needed to make a few changes to that file. > In my file, I have a virtual host ("_default_") and within the virtual > host configuration there is a switch to turn on the SSL Engine called > "SSLEngine" values are on or off. Make sure it is on. Also, make sure > your certificates are correct in the file. For your ssl logs, the file > may be pointing your logs to a different location other than > /var/log/httpd, but I doubt it. Check to be sure. > > As for redirecting from http to https, here are my rules (in a file > called mailman.conf in /etc/httpd/conf.d along with other mailman rules): > > RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ https://%{HTTP_HOST}/mailman/listinfo > RedirectMatch ^[/]*$ > https://%{HTTP_HOST}/mailman/listinfo > > although instead of %{HTTP_HOST} I have the actual hostname. > > I also don't bother with the rewrite rules, like turning the rewrite > engine on etc.. I do load the rewrite_module ('modules/mod_rewrite.so) > but so far, I have needed to use it. The Redirect set of commands use > the mod_alias module. It seems to work for me. > > Good Luck, > Chris > > On 5/23/2012 5:37 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote: >> Thanks and you are, of course, correct. I knew that but I was desperate >> to try to get something, anything, working. I did fix it but since the >> more generic version did not work, it is not a surprise that the more >> specific rule does not work either. >> >> Yes I did check all the logs I could thing of but nothing that indicates >> it even ran a rewrite rule. I don't see anything in the ssl_access or >> error logs either so that tells me ssl is never being used. Does that >> not imply that the rewrite engine is not working? >> >> When I use http://... it brings up the correct page. As I said >> originally, everything works if I use http or if I manually use https. >> It is forcing https that doesn't. Once again it seems to be pointing to >> the rewrite engine not working. >> >> On 5/22/2012 2:25 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> Dennis Putnam wrote: >>>> I assume you mean the entire mailman site as opposed to the entire web >>>> site. >>> No. I meant the entire web site. Just because you put something in >>> /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf doesn't make it magically just apply to >>> Mailman. It depends on where in httpd.conf that file is included. >>> >>> In a normal Centos distro, the >>> >>> Include conf.d/*.conf >>> >>> directive is in the Global Environment section of httpd.conf and thus >>> anything in any of the included files affects or at least sets a >>> default for the entire site. >>> >>> If you want to force https only for Mailman CGIs, your rewrite rule >>> should be something like >>> >>> RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/mailman$1 [L,R] >>> >>> If you want to include forced https for public archive access (why >>> would you?), maybe something like >>> >>> RewriteRule ^/pipermail(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/pipermail$1 [R] >>> RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/mailman$1 [L,R] >>> >>> or >>> >>> RewriteRule ^/(mailman|pipermail)(/.*) https://%{HTTP_HOST}/$1$2 [L,R] >>> >>> would be appropriate. >>> >>> >>>> Yes, that is what I want. Yes, it SHOULD work but doesn't. The >>>> main problem is that there are no errors anywhere I can find and I have >>>> no idea how to debug this. >>> Have you looked in all the httpd logs (/var/log/httpd/*log)? >>> >>> What actually happens when you go to >>> ? >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cnulk%40scu.edu > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dap1%40bellsouth.net > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ma.76 at osu.edu Wed May 23 17:03:26 2012 From: ma.76 at osu.edu (Ma, Yuan) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 15:03:26 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way for an owner to see how many points the subscribers have accumulated? Message-ID: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD67251EE1@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> Hi, Is there a way for an owner to see how many points the subscribers have accumulated? Thank you very much in advance. Yuan From dave at fiteyes.com Wed May 23 18:27:35 2012 From: dave at fiteyes.com (David) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:27:35 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way for an owner to see how many points the subscribers have accumulated? In-Reply-To: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD67251EE1@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> References: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD67251EE1@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Ma, Yuan wrote: > Hi, > > Is there a way for an owner to see how many points the subscribers have > accumulated? > Do you mean the accumulated bounce score? From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 23 19:25:11 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 10:25:11 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: <4FBCDA11.9020209@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >When I use http://... it brings up the correct page. As I said >originally, everything works if I use http or if I manually use https. >It is forcing https that doesn't. Once again it seems to be pointing to >the rewrite engine not working. When you use http://... and you get the page, does it still say http://... in the browser's address bar? When you access the pages via https://... Are the links on the pages also to https://...? Are there any errors logged by apache at startup time? Is rewrite_module (mod_rewrite) loaded in httpd.conf, e.g. LoadModule rewrite_module modules/mod_rewrite.so Is your mailman domain a virtual host, i.e. in a VirtualHost block either by name or IP. If so, the rewrite directives need to be in the VirtualHost block. See "Rewriting in Virtual Hosts" at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From ma.76 at osu.edu Wed May 23 19:42:40 2012 From: ma.76 at osu.edu (Ma, Yuan) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 17:42:40 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way for an owner to see how many points the subscribers have accumulated? In-Reply-To: References: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD67251EE1@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD67251FA5@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> Hi, David: Yes. I meant the accumulated bounced score for each members of a mailing list. Is there a way for an owner to see how many points the subscribers have accumulated? Thanks. Yuan From: David [mailto:dave at fiteyes.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:28 PM To: Ma, Yuan Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way for an owner to see how many points the subscribers have accumulated? On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Ma, Yuan > wrote: Hi, Is there a way for an owner to see how many points the subscribers have accumulated? Do you mean the accumulated bounce score? ________________________________ Spam Not spam Forget previous vote From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org Wed May 23 20:01:31 2012 From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 14:01:31 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The sender needs to receive email sent to mailing list... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBD25FB.5000202@libertytrek.org> On 2012-05-23 9:43 AM, Guilherme Cunha wrote: > Hi > > The sender needs to receive email sent to mailing list... > > > How can I do this? Mark already answered you yesterday, spamming this list with multiple duplicate questions won't change the answer. If you are using gmail, you will NEVER get your own messages - this is a GMail issue, nothing to do with mailman. From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 23 20:48:55 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 11:48:55 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way for an owner to see how manypoints the subscribers have accumulated? In-Reply-To: <3D7D185549C2E048814EC5CF34B8FD67251FA5@CIO-KRC-D1MBX02.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: Ma, Yuan wrote: > >Yes. I meant the accumulated bounced score for each members of a mailing list. > >Is there a way for an owner to see how many points the subscribers have accumulated? If you have shell (command line) access to the server, see the withlist script at . Otherwise, the only way is to go through the web admin Membership List and click each user's email address to go to the user's options page. If the user's bounce score is > 0, a notice is displayed near the top of the options page. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dap1 at bellsouth.net Wed May 23 21:15:40 2012 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 15:15:40 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBD375C.2020301@bellsouth.net> On 5/23/2012 1:25 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: >> When I use http://... it brings up the correct page. As I said >> originally, everything works if I use http or if I manually use https. >> It is forcing https that doesn't. Once again it seems to be pointing to >> the rewrite engine not working. > > When you use http://... and you get the page, does it still say > http://... in the browser's address bar? Yes > > When you access the pages via https://... Are the links on the pages > also to https://...? Yes > > Are there any errors logged by apache at startup time? No > > Is rewrite_module (mod_rewrite) loaded in httpd.conf, e.g. Yes > > LoadModule rewrite_module modules/mod_rewrite.so > > Is your mailman domain a virtual host, i.e. in a VirtualHost block > either by name or IP. If so, the rewrite directives need to be in the > VirtualHost block. See "Rewriting in Virtual Hosts" at > . Yes and it is in the VH block. I also figured out how to add debug info for the rewrite engine. I don't know what is supposed to be there but here is what I got (the implication being I must have the wrong condition or rule). 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:21 --0400] [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (2) init rewrite engine with requested uri /mailman/listinfo 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:21 --0400] [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (3) applying pattern '^/mailman(/.*)' to uri '/mailman/listinfo' 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:21 --0400] [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (3) applying pattern '^/cufs(/.*)' to uri '/mailman/listinfo' 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:21 --0400] [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (1) pass through /mailman/listinfo 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:26 --0400] [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (2) init rewrite engine with requested uri /mailman/admin 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:26 --0400] [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (3) applying pattern '^/mailman(/.*)' to uri '/mailman/admin' 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:26 --0400] [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (3) applying pattern '^/cufs(/.*)' to uri '/mailman/admin' 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:26 --0400] [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (1) pass through /mailman/admin 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:33 --0400] [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (3) applying pattern '^/mailman(/.*)' to uri '/mailman/admin/cufsalumni' 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:33 --0400] [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (3) applying pattern '^/cufs(/.*)' to uri '/mailman/admin/cufsalumni' 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:33 --0400] [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (1) pass through /mailman/admin/cufsalumni 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:33 --0400] [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b638cc38/subreq] (2) init rewrite engine with requested uri /cufsalumni 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:33 --0400] [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b638cc38/subreq] (1) pass through /cufsalumni The incoming URL is http://myhost.mydomain.com/mailman/admin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From francwalter at gmx.net Wed May 23 22:15:13 2012 From: francwalter at gmx.net (Frank Walter) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 22:15:13 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uninstall mailman manually Message-ID: <0a482b1b-1564-4eed-bd88-11ccc6d07a93@email.android.com> Hello I made some mistake I think. I installed mailman on Ubuntu 12.04 by Aptitude and copied an older version over it because I wanted to keep mailing lists from another server. After this mailman didn't start anymore but in aptitude I couldn't uninstall it neither. Now I hope that I can uninstall it by deleting the two mailman folders and the config in /etc/mailman - is this the right way? I am at a point that I prefer to create new the only needed mailing list (about 30 addresses only and the archive is not important) rather than spending hours with error seeking without result. If only I get it fresh installed... Help appreciated :) Frank From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 24 16:56:33 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 07:56:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uninstall mailman manually In-Reply-To: <0a482b1b-1564-4eed-bd88-11ccc6d07a93@email.android.com> Message-ID: Frank Walter wrote: >I installed mailman on Ubuntu 12.04 by Aptitude and copied an older version over it because I wanted to keep mailing lists from another server. You should have only copied the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck and the archives/private/* files. See the FAQ at >After this mailman didn't start anymore but in aptitude I couldn't uninstall it neither. >Now I hope that I can uninstall it by deleting the two mailman folders and the config in /etc/mailman - >is this the right way? I think that will work, but see the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From francwalter at gmx.net Fri May 25 00:24:43 2012 From: francwalter at gmx.net (Frank Walter) Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 00:24:43 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uninstall mailman manually In-Reply-To: References: <0a482b1b-1564-4eed-bd88-11ccc6d07a93@email.android.com> Message-ID: <013c01cd39fc$0522f010$0f68d030$@net> Mark this was working, I thank you very much. I deleted (indeedly just renamed): /var/lib/mailman /usr/lib/mailman /etc/mailman and after this I just could install mailman normally through aptitude. The links you gave me instructed me to import old lists to the new installation, which was easy enough. I want to thank you much. frank > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Mai 2012 16:57 > An: Frank Walter; mailman-users at python.org > Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] Uninstall mailman manually > > Frank Walter wrote: > > >I installed mailman on Ubuntu 12.04 by Aptitude and copied an older version over it > because I wanted to keep mailing lists from another server. > > > You should have only copied the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck and the > archives/private/* files. See the FAQ at > > > >After this mailman didn't start anymore but in aptitude I couldn't uninstall it neither. > >Now I hope that I can uninstall it by deleting the two mailman folders and the config in > /etc/mailman - > >is this the right way? > > > I think that will work, but see the FAQ at > . > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fcocquyt at stanford.edu Fri May 25 02:41:59 2012 From: fcocquyt at stanford.edu (Fletcher Cocquyt) Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 00:41:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9 Message-ID: We receive this error: Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9 We're sorry, we hit a bug! Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. When attempting to login to the admin interface and the logs say: May 24 17:32:05 2012 admin(20758): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ admin(20758): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----] admin(20758): [----- Traceback ------] admin(20758): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(20758): File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main admin(20758): main() admin(20758): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 251, in main admin(20758): mlist.Save() admin(20758): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 565, in Save admin(20758): self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir() admin(20758): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 241, in CheckHTMLArchiveDir admin(20758): makelink(privdir, pubdir) admin(20758): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 49, in makelink admin(20758): os.symlink(old, new) admin(20758): OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied admin(20758): [----- Python Information -----] admin(20758): sys.version = 2.4.3 (#1, Sep 3 2009, 15:37:37) [GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-46)] admin(20758): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python admin(20758): sys.prefix = /usr admin(20758): sys.exec_prefix = /usr admin(20758): sys.path = /usr admin(20758): sys.platform = linux2 admin(20758): [----- Environment Variables -----] and the permissions are ls -ld /var/lib/mailman/archives/private drwxrws--x 471 mailman mailman 36864 May 24 17:27 /var/lib/mailman/archives /private Help! thanks From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 25 04:45:31 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 19:45:31 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBEF24B.9090304@msapiro.net> On 5/24/2012 5:41 PM, Fletcher Cocquyt wrote: > > When attempting to login to the admin interface and the logs say: > > May 24 17:32:05 2012 admin(20758): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > admin(20758): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----] > admin(20758): [----- Traceback ------] > admin(20758): Traceback (most recent call last): > admin(20758): File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main > admin(20758): main() > admin(20758): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 251, in > main > admin(20758): mlist.Save() > admin(20758): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 565, in Save > admin(20758): self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir() > admin(20758): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 241, > > in CheckHTMLArchiveDir > admin(20758): makelink(privdir, pubdir) > admin(20758): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 49, > > in makelink > admin(20758): os.symlink(old, new) > admin(20758): OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied [...] > and the permissions are > > ls -ld /var/lib/mailman/archives/private > drwxrws--x 471 mailman mailman 36864 May 24 17:27 /var/lib/mailman/archives > /private That's not relevant. The code is attempting to do the equivalent of ln -s archives/private/LISTNAME archives/public/LISTNAME What are the permissions on /var/lib/mailman/archives/public which is where it's trying to create the link? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fcocquyt at stanford.edu Fri May 25 04:50:52 2012 From: fcocquyt at stanford.edu (Fletcher Cocquyt) Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 02:50:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9 References: Message-ID: Fletcher Cocquyt stanford.edu> writes: > > We receive this error: > > Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9 > > We're sorry, we hit a bug! > I added a debug line to Archiver.py: syslog('error', 'Archive file access failure:\n\t%s %s', old, new) and it revealed the issue was a missing symlink in /var/lib/mailman/archives /public: Once I corrected the ownership - it succeeded: ls -lad /var/lib/mailman/archives/public drwxrwsr-x 2 35 utempter 32768 May 24 19:35 /var/lib/mailman/archives/public chown mailman:mailman /var/lib/mailman/archives/public ls -lad /var/lib/mailman/archives/public drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 32768 May 24 19:35 /var/lib/mailman/archives/public thanks From francwalter at gmx.net Fri May 25 10:38:18 2012 From: francwalter at gmx.net (Frank Walter) Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 10:38:18 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uninstall mailman manually In-Reply-To: <013c01cd39fc$0522f010$0f68d030$@net> References: <0a482b1b-1564-4eed-bd88-11ccc6d07a93@email.android.com> <013c01cd39fc$0522f010$0f68d030$@net> Message-ID: <014901cd3a51$bd122f60$37368e20$@net> I have to add, that I needed to copy the files: /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db from my old list, to send mails. Got some really clear error notes in my mail.err logfile :) frank > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: mailman-users-bounces+francwalter=gmx.net at python.org [mailto:mailman-users- > bounces+francwalter=gmx.net at python.org] Im Auftrag von Frank Walter > Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Mai 2012 00:25 > An: 'Mark Sapiro'; mailman-users at python.org > Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] Uninstall mailman manually > > Mark this was working, I thank you very much. > > I deleted (indeedly just renamed): > > /var/lib/mailman > /usr/lib/mailman > /etc/mailman > > and after this I just could install mailman normally through aptitude. > > The links you gave me instructed me to import old lists to the new installation, which was > easy enough. > > I want to thank you much. > > frank > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] > > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Mai 2012 16:57 > > An: Frank Walter; mailman-users at python.org > > Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] Uninstall mailman manually > > > > Frank Walter wrote: > > > > >I installed mailman on Ubuntu 12.04 by Aptitude and copied an older version over it > > because I wanted to keep mailing lists from another server. > > > > > > You should have only copied the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck and the > > archives/private/* files. See the FAQ at > > > > > > >After this mailman didn't start anymore but in aptitude I couldn't uninstall it > neither. > > >Now I hope that I can uninstall it by deleting the two mailman folders and the config > in > > /etc/mailman - > > >is this the right way? > > > > > > I think that will work, but see the FAQ at > > . > > > > -- > > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/francwalter%40gmx.net From mark at msapiro.net Sat May 26 02:40:07 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 17:40:07 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Admin Security Question In-Reply-To: <4FBD375C.2020301@bellsouth.net> References: <4FBD375C.2020301@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <4FC02667.5060706@msapiro.net> On 5/23/2012 12:15 PM, Dennis Putnam wrote: > > I also figured out how to add debug info for the rewrite engine. I don't > know what is supposed to be there but here is what I got (the > implication being I must have the wrong condition or rule). > > 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:21 --0400] > [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (2) init > rewrite engine with requested uri /mailman/listinfo > 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:21 --0400] > [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (3) applying > pattern '^/mailman(/.*)' to uri '/mailman/listinfo' > 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:21 --0400] > [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (3) applying > pattern '^/cufs(/.*)' to uri '/mailman/listinfo' > 64.100.144.9 - - [23/May/2012:14:54:21 --0400] > [myhost.mydomain.com/sid#b7544e28][rid#b6386c20/initial] (1) pass > through /mailman/listinfo I had an off list exchange with Dennis and finally figured out the issue here. The above log entries are what one will see with a RewriteCond and RewriteLogLevel 3 when the RewriteCond is not satisfied. The FAQ at recommends using RewriteCond %{HTTPS} off [NC] It turns out that Dennis was using RewriteCond %{HTTPS} Off and the value of %{HTTPS} was not a case sensitive match for Off. I added a note to the FAQ to discourage omitting the [NC] (no case flag). -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From drew.tenenholz at isid.org Tue May 29 23:23:11 2012 From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 17:23:11 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] User Passwords - Mass Subscribe/Mass Change Message-ID: All -- Sorry if this has been answered before, I don't have the time to go through the archives at the moment. Mailman 2.1.9/Red Hat Linux When migrating tens of thousands of users form an ancient Majordomo system to a new Mailman system, can I set the users' passwords when I upload their addresses from a text file? Can I change the automatically created passwords? We have a pretty slick PHP-driven site to manage subscriptions to about 10-15 lists, and I always set the user's password for them, so they don't have to deal with it. They like it, and I like it. This works fine for individual subscription requests, as the email command I send on their behalf includes a unitary password. Can I achieve the same result as I mass subscribe them? -- Drew Tenenholz From bsfinkel at att.net Tue May 29 23:59:30 2012 From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S, Finkel) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 16:59:30 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] User Passwords - Mass Subscribe/Mass Change In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FC546C2.8040001@att.net> On 5/29/2012 4:23 PM, Drew Tenenholz wrote: > All -- > > Sorry if this has been answered before, I don't have the time to go through the archives at the moment. > > Mailman 2.1.9/Red Hat Linux > > When migrating tens of thousands of users form an ancient Majordomo system to a new Mailman system, can I set the users' passwords when I upload their addresses from a text file? > > Can I change the automatically created passwords? > > We have a pretty slick PHP-driven site to manage subscriptions to about 10-15 lists, and I always set the user's password for them, so they don't have to deal with it. They like it, and I like it. This works fine for individual subscription requests, as the email command I send on their behalf includes a unitary password. > > Can I achieve the same result as I mass subscribe them? > > -- Drew Tenenholz > ------------------------------------------------------ > > When I was managing a Mailman installation, management (and I) concluded that we would do nothing with passwords. Users did not need passwords (except in the rare case they wanted to view archives or change their mail delivery settings). And if a user needed his/her password, it was very easy to have Mailman send it. I never had a problem with Mailman users and passwords. --Barry Finkel From anilj at me.com Wed May 30 00:17:31 2012 From: anilj at me.com (Anil Jangity) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 22:17:31 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] scalability + ldap Message-ID: <8857900b-9da5-e783-ebb6-eb08eca588c1@me.com> How does mailman scale to large lists? What about 200,000 members or more? I know a large part of this has to do with the performance of the email infrastructure. Are there plans to make use of LDAP for storing Lists information (lists+members+lists configuration)? Right now, we have corporate Groups in LDAP, and members in that group (e.g. uniqueMember). When a email is sent to a Group, we have some scripts that will do LDAP lookups and then expand to those specific email addresses and then re-distribute emails to these individuals. These are internal Groups. I was debating the plusses and minuses of using a real mailing list (mailman) for this purpose. Thanks, Anil From drew.tenenholz at isid.org Wed May 30 01:54:02 2012 From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 19:54:02 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] User Passwords - Mass Subscribe/Mass Change In-Reply-To: <4FC546C2.8040001@att.net> References: <4FC546C2.8040001@att.net> Message-ID: Barry -- My situation is different, and I do need a solution to setting a global password that I know so I can have my webpage add & remove subscribers on their behalf. It's just the way we work. I'm actually trying quite hard to hide much of the guts of Mailman, my users aren't really interested in knowing five passwords for the five different lists they are on and unsubbing from each. Off to the list archives.... -- Drew Tenenholz At 4:59 PM -0500 5/29/12, Barry S, Finkel wrote: >When I was managing a Mailman installation, management (and I) concluded that we would >do nothing with passwords. Users did not need passwords (except in the rare case they >wanted to view archives or change their mail delivery settings). And if a user needed >his/her password, it was very easy to have Mailman send it. I never had a problem with >Mailman users and passwords. >--Barry Finkel From brad at shub-internet.org Wed May 30 02:40:35 2012 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 19:40:35 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] scalability + ldap In-Reply-To: <8857900b-9da5-e783-ebb6-eb08eca588c1@me.com> References: <8857900b-9da5-e783-ebb6-eb08eca588c1@me.com> Message-ID: On May 29, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Anil Jangity wrote: > How does mailman scale to large lists? What about 200,000 members or more? I know a large part of this has to do with the performance of the email infrastructure. Questions like this are pretty well addressed by the FAQ Wiki. See , , and . How far you want to go basically depends on how much work you're willing to put into the Mailman and MTA infrastructure in order to make it happen. > Are there plans to make use of LDAP for storing Lists information (lists+members+lists configuration)? You'd need an LDAP member adapter -- basically, an LDAP database interface driver for Python. There was some experimental work that was done in this area for Mailman 2.1.x, but I don't think it ever got formally included in the code base. This sort of thing should be relatively easy to do with Mailman 3.x, once that ships and is stable. > Right now, we have corporate Groups in LDAP, and members in that group (e.g. uniqueMember). When a email is sent to a Group, we have some scripts that will do LDAP lookups and then expand to those specific email addresses and then re-distribute emails to these individuals. > > These are internal Groups. I was debating the plusses and minuses of using a real mailing list (mailman) for this purpose. There are people who are already doing this sort of thing with Mailman today, but it requires a bit of hacking on the code to put all the pieces together. We do not (yet) have an out-of-the-box solution in this space, at least not that I know of. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From drew.tenenholz at isid.org Wed May 30 03:24:55 2012 From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 21:24:55 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] User Passwords - Mass Subscribe/Mass Change In-Reply-To: References: <4FC546C2.8040001@att.net> Message-ID: All -- So, I found a somewhat useful script out there on the internet, and I'm able to save & run it, but it always generates a random password. I've made what I think are a couple of simple changes that should allow me to set a specific (unitary) password, but that's not what the script reports, and if I try to unsubscribe, I do get an email reply saying I used the wrong password, so.... Any help in fixing this code? TIA, Drew import sys import getopt import paths from Mailman import Utils from Mailman.i18n import _ try: True, False except NameError: True = 1 False = 0 def usage(code, msg=''): if code: fd = sys.stderr else: fd = sys.stdout print >> fd, _(__doc__.replace('%', '%%')) if msg: print >> fd, msg sys.exit(code) def reset_pw(mlist, *args): try: opts, args = getopt.getopt(args, 'v', ['verbose']) except getopt.error, msg: usage(1, msg) verbose = False for opt, args in opts: if opt in ('-v', '--verbose'): verbose = True listname = mlist.internal_name() if verbose: print _('Changing passwords for list: %(listname)s') for member in mlist.getMembers(): # specify a unitary password below newpw = 'ISID' # mlist.setMemberPassword(member, newpw) if verbose: print _('New password for member %(member)40s: %(newpw)s') mlist.Save() if __name__ == '__main__': usage(0) From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 30 03:37:44 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 18:37:44 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] User Passwords - Mass Subscribe/Mass Change In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Drew Tenenholz wrote: > >So, I found a somewhat useful script out there on the internet, and I'm able to save & run it, but it always generates a random password. I've made what I think are a couple of simple changes that should allow me to set a specific (unitary) password, but that's not what the script reports, and if I try to unsubscribe, I do get an email reply saying I used the wrong password, so.... > >Any help in fixing this code? Fixing it how? Do you know that it is a withlist script. It should be saved in Mailman's bin/ directory as bin/reset_pw.py and run via a command like bin/withlist -l -r reset_pw LISTNAME Is that how you're running it? If so, what happens when you run it? Also, if you edited out the docstring from the file in addition to from this email, you will have issues with the 'usage()' function. >TIA, >Drew > > >import sys >import getopt > >import paths >from Mailman import Utils >from Mailman.i18n import _ > > >try: > True, False >except NameError: > True = 1 > False = 0 > > > >def usage(code, msg=''): > if code: > fd = sys.stderr > else: > fd = sys.stdout > print >> fd, _(__doc__.replace('%', '%%')) > if msg: > print >> fd, msg > sys.exit(code) > > > >def reset_pw(mlist, *args): > try: > opts, args = getopt.getopt(args, 'v', ['verbose']) > except getopt.error, msg: > usage(1, msg) > > verbose = False > for opt, args in opts: > if opt in ('-v', '--verbose'): > verbose = True > > listname = mlist.internal_name() > if verbose: > print _('Changing passwords for list: %(listname)s') > > for member in mlist.getMembers(): > ># specify a unitary password below > newpw = 'ISID' ># > > mlist.setMemberPassword(member, newpw) > if verbose: > print _('New password for member %(member)40s: %(newpw)s') > > mlist.Save() > > > >if __name__ == '__main__': > usage(0) >------------------------------------------------------ >Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mark%40msapiro.net -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From drew.tenenholz at isid.org Wed May 30 04:05:11 2012 From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 22:05:11 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] User Passwords - Mass Subscribe/Mass Change In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark, et. al. Got it! At 6:37 PM -0700 5/29/12, Mark Sapiro wrote: >Fixing it how? Do you know that it is a withlist script. It should be >saved in Mailman's bin/ directory as bin/reset_pw.py and run via a >command like > > bin/withlist -l -r reset_pw LISTNAME > >Is that how you're running it? If so, what happens when you run it? When I run either this modified script or the built-in one, I was always getting a random password. I need a fixed one. The 'trick' seems two-fold: 1) The script really does need to be in the /mailman/bin/ folder. 2) The script seems to manage to call the built-in reset_pw script that comes with the installation. That script always chooses a random password. So, I just saved that as reset_pw_orig.py, used a modified version as the 'real' reset_pw, and all was well. Sorry for the long struggle. I'm _not_ a python user, and get a bit tangled up in a syntax I almost (but not quite) understand. I'm sure this seems like a piece of cake to the rest of you. -- Drew From anilj at me.com Wed May 30 06:10:26 2012 From: anilj at me.com (Anil Jangity) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 21:10:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] scalability + ldap In-Reply-To: References: <8857900b-9da5-e783-ebb6-eb08eca588c1@me.com> Message-ID: <1A593F07-9EAA-4087-9F28-9EB3AE2A2E3A@me.com> > > You'd need an LDAP member adapter -- basically, an LDAP database interface driver for Python. There was some experimental work that was done in this area for Mailman 2.1.x, but I don't think it ever got formally included in the code base. This sort of thing should be relatively easy to do with Mailman 3.x, once that ships and is stable. > Google's having a bit of a problem trying to find LDAPMemberAdaptor. What is the link/page to this? The link http://webserver.offal.homelinux.org/LDAPMemberAdaptor/ seems to be broken now. >> Right now, we have corporate Groups in LDAP, and members in that group (e.g. uniqueMember). When a email is sent to a Group, we have some scripts that will do LDAP lookups and then expand to those specific email addresses and then re-distribute emails to these individuals. >> >> These are internal Groups. I was debating the plusses and minuses of using a real mailing list (mailman) for this purpose. > > There are people who are already doing this sort of thing with Mailman today, but it requires a bit of hacking on the code to put all the pieces together. We do not (yet) have an out-of-the-box solution in this space, at least not that I know of. I just did a few google searches and I do see it now, but I don't suppose there is a list of things that are required for this to be configured? Thanks From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 30 07:17:20 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 22:17:20 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] scalability + ldap In-Reply-To: <1A593F07-9EAA-4087-9F28-9EB3AE2A2E3A@me.com> Message-ID: Anil Jangity wrote: > >Google's having a bit of a problem trying to find LDAPMemberAdaptor. What is the link/page to this? The link http://webserver.offal.homelinux.org/LDAPMemberAdaptor/ seems to be broken now. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From drew.tenenholz at isid.org Wed May 30 23:56:57 2012 From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz) Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 17:56:57 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Helping users with 'Confimation' Message-ID: All -- After migrating our existing users, I have a question about new subscribers to my announce-only list (Mailman 2.1.9) who must confirm to actually join. I'm seeing a number of replies to the confirm message in the moderation queue. There's no discernibly new content in the message, it looks just like the confirm message except that it probably didn't confirm the subscriber. What options are available for me to help these users confirm their intention to join the list? -- Drew Tenenholz From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 31 01:42:02 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 16:42:02 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Helping users with 'Confimation' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Drew Tenenholz wrote: > >What options are available for me to help these users confirm their intention to join the list? You can go to http://www.example.com/mailman/confirm/LISTNAME and copy/paste the confirmation token from the email into the box on the form and confirm that way, or just follow the similar link in the message that already contains the token. Or, you can send a message to LISTNAME-request at example.com with Subject: confirm or you can send a message to LISTNAME-confirm+@example.com. One of those latter two options is what should have happened had the user just replied to the confirmation email. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jose at legido.com Thu May 31 10:02:19 2012 From: jose at legido.com (Jose Legido) Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 10:02:19 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't moderate requests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Jose Legido wrote: > > > >I can't moderate requests in mailman. > >I have requests Held Messages, I select discard and submit all data, but > >the message continue in Held Messages. > >I take a look in the logs but don't find nothing. > > > See the FAQ at . > > Thank you, I changed https configuration and it works. > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > From tomislawl at gmail.com Thu May 31 16:09:32 2012 From: tomislawl at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Tomislav_Lueti=E6?=) Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 16:09:32 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending messages Message-ID: No matter what I do with my pending messages, they don't go away. All the options are there, available, but after submitting my choices everything reverts back. There are some FAQ entries related to this; but they all include having to re-enter passwd at some point. I have no problem with that and cookies are a-ok. thx in advance From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 31 17:10:53 2012 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 08:10:53 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FC789FD.50203@msapiro.net> On 5/31/2012 7:09 AM, Tomislav Lueti? wrote: > No matter what I do with my pending messages, they don't go away. All the > options are there, available, but after submitting my choices everything > reverts back. There are some FAQ entries related to this; but they all > include having to re-enter passwd at some point. I have no problem with > that and cookies are a-ok. The FAQs are somewhat misleading. Re-entering the password is not always a symptom. The FAQ at is probably relevant. Is your web server redirecting or rewriting your POST URLs? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From tomislawl at gmail.com Thu May 31 17:29:27 2012 From: tomislawl at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Tomislav_Lueti=E6?=) Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 17:29:27 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending messages In-Reply-To: <4FC789FD.50203@msapiro.net> References: <4FC789FD.50203@msapiro.net> Message-ID: Not to my knowledge, but the server itself wasn't set up by me. I got handed somebody else's mess. a couple more things that might help; permissions check out, there was no upgrading or moving involved, if I try to admin a message from a single message view I get send back to pending requests overview page. and wouldn't URL redirect screw up all changes I try to make? I can normally change settings for lists, it's just the messages that are misbehaving. On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 5/31/2012 7:09 AM, Tomislav Lueti? wrote: > > No matter what I do with my pending messages, they don't go away. All the > > options are there, available, but after submitting my choices everything > > reverts back. There are some FAQ entries related to this; but they all > > include having to re-enter passwd at some point. I have no problem with > > that and cookies are a-ok. > > > The FAQs are somewhat misleading. Re-entering the password is not always > a symptom. The FAQ at is probably > relevant. Is your web server redirecting or rewriting your POST URLs? > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > From joab at inbox.com Thu May 31 23:49:23 2012 From: joab at inbox.com (wilby) Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 14:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization issue Message-ID: <33941589.post@talk.nabble.com> Help please I'm a MM 2.1.12 user who uses the MM that runs on a server located at my ISP offices. I have no access to the server but am able to use MM as a "send only" email message delivery system. I manually add new subscribers and also manually unsubscribe them. Lately I've had a problem deleting someone in my mailing list because they forgot the address they asked me to use and I can't figure out what address to delete. I finally solved this the hard way. I then decided that "personalization = on", with "delivered_to" in the footer would solve the problem for me. Every message I sent to them would clearly state the address used to the receiving person. In trying this plan I find that it works well sometimes and other times the footer info is either placed in an attachment file, or simply missing completely. Trying to solve this I find that if I place any underline character, or a dash character in my message, the footer goes to attachment or wherever. There is probably much more to this. 1. There must be a way to get the footer to always show in the message, is there? 2. Maybe there is an easier way to get the "delivered_to" info to appear somewhere in my messages. 3. Maybe there is an entirely better way to do what I need, Help! Looking further, I see that if the email from the MM server I use is "text" then the "delivered to" dies appear in the footer. If the message is delivered in what looks like "rich text" then the footers are hidden, attachments, or missing. wilby -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Personalization-issue-tp33941589p33941589.html Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.