From cwieland at uci.edu  Tue Jan  3 20:18:59 2012
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 11:18:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender Filters
Message-ID: <04286F9C-2F72-4FA4-863A-C27940E72C31@uci.edu>

I have a list set with the "List of non-member addresses whose postings will be immediately held for moderation" set up using regular expressions. 

^.*@.*\.uc.*\.edu$
^.*@uc.*\.edu$
^.*@.*\.berkeley\.edu$
^.*@berkeley\.edu$
^.*@.*\.lbl\.gov$
^.*@lbl\.gov$
^.*@.*\.llnl\.gov$
^.*@llnl\.gov$

The other day the following message got thru:

> Received: from mta3.service.uci.edu (128.200.192.65) by CAS.ad.uci.edu
> (128.200.73.80) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.159.3; Wed, 28 Dec
> 2011 14:31:46 -0800
> Received: (from daemon at localhost)	by mta3.service.uci.edu (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.6)
> id pBSMVjD2023728;	Wed, 28 Dec 2011 14:31:45 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from maillists.nac.uci.edu (maillists.nac.uci.edu [128.200.59.165])
> by mta3.service.uci.edu (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id pBSMVhZk023647;
> Wed, 28 Dec 2011 14:31:43 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from maillists.nac.uci.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])	by
> maillists.nac.uci.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP	id 7F248177538; Wed, 28 Dec 2011
> 14:31:40 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from mta2.service.uci.edu (mta2.service.uci.edu [128.200.192.222])
> by maillists.nac.uci.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843535816	for
> <uccsc at maillists.uci.edu>; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 14:31:38 -0800 (PST)
> Received: (from daemon at localhost)	by mta2.service.uci.edu (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.6)
> id pBSMVbmi023465	for uccsc at maillists.uci.edu.xyzzy; Wed, 28 Dec 2011
> 14:31:37 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from mx1.service.uci.edu (mx1.service.uci.edu [128.200.192.219])	by
> mta2.service.uci.edu (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id	pBSMVBTI022988	for
> <uccsc at uci.edu>; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 14:31:36 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from cluster2019.monopost.com (cluster2019.monopost.com
> [69.195.228.119])	by mx1.service.uci.edu (8.14.4+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id
> pBSMUP8B010206	for <uccsc at uci.edu>; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 14:30:27 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from scripts29.ulan (scripts29.ulan [10.20.55.30])	by
> cluster2019.monopost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id ED61DD28192	for
> <uccsc at uci.edu>; Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:30:25 +0000 (UTC)
> Received: by scripts29.ulan (sSMTP sendmail emulation);	Wed, 28 Dec 2011
> 22:30:25 +0000
> From: Badoo <noreply at badoo.com>
> To: "uccsc at uci.edu" <uccsc at uci.edu>
> Sender: "uccsc-bounces at uci.edu" <uccsc-bounces at uci.edu>
> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 14:30:25 -0800
> Subject: [UCCSC] Jay left a message for you...
> Thread-Topic: [UCCSC] Jay left a message for you...
> Thread-Index: AczFsHvT57KskKr4Tie2KLU8lMyFPw==
> Message-ID: <201112282230.pBSMUP8B010206 at mx1.service.uci.edu>
> List-Help: <mailto:uccsc-request at uci.edu?subject=help>
> List-Subscribe: <https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/uccsc>,
> <mailto:uccsc-request at uci.edu?subject=subscribe>
> List-Unsubscribe: <https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/uccsc>,
> <mailto:uccsc-request at uci.edu?subject=unsubscribe>
> Reply-To: "indyguide at gmail.com" <indyguide at gmail.com>
> Accept-Language: en-US
> Content-Language: en-US
> X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthAs: Anonymous
> X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthSource: CAS.ad.uci.edu
> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
> X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All
> X-MS-Exchange-Organization-SenderIdResult: None
> X-MS-Exchange-Organization-SCL: 0
> X-MS-Exchange-Organization-PCL: 2
> X-MS-Exchange-Organization-PRD: uci.edu
> X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
> x-ucirvine-mailscanner-from: noreply at badoo.com
> x-ucirvine-mailscanner: No viruses found
> x-greylist: Sender is SPF-compliant, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0
> (mx1.service.uci.edu [128.200.192.219]);	Wed, 28 Dec 2011 14:30:27 -0800
> (PST)
> x-campaignid: badoo 003.63.1.281211223013
> x-ucirvine-spamscore: s
> list-archive: <http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/uccsc>
> list-post: <mailto:uccsc at uci.edu>
> x-original-to: uccsc at maillists.uci.edu
> delivered-to: uccsc at maillists.uci.edu
> x-beenthere: uccsc at uci.edu
> errors-to: uccsc-bounces at uci.edu
> x-mailman-version: 2.1.9
> list-id: UC Computing Support Conferences <uccsc.uci.edu>
> received-spf: None (CAS.ad.uci.edu: uccsc-bounces at uci.edu does not designate
> permitted sender hosts)
> x-dkim: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.7.2 cluster2019.monopost.com ED61DD28192
> x-domainkeys: Sendmail DomainKeys Filter v1.0.2 cluster2019.monopost.com
> ED61DD28192
> Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
> boundary="_002_201112282230pBSMUP8B010206mx1serviceuciedu_"
> MIME-Version: 1.0

and:

"Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined." is set to discard.

The logs don't seem to help. Any ideas? 

Thanks
Con Wieland
University of California at Irvine
Office of Information Technology
Network and Support Programming



From joydeep.bakshi at infoservices.in  Wed Jan  4 06:43:16 2012
From: joydeep.bakshi at infoservices.in (J. Bakshi (জ বকসী))
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 11:13:16 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Now my postfix has moved from mailman server
Message-ID: <20120104111316.553a4075@shiva.selfip.org>

Hello list,


I had been running mailman and postfix on the same server. I had to add the following into main.cf to
integrate mailman into postfix

`````````````````
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
recipient_delimiter = +
mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1
```````````````````

and the mm_cfg.py is as below


`````````````````
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list.mydomain.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'list.mydomain.com'
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = '25'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['list.xxxxx.com']
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'
```````````````````````

Now the mailserver has physically been moved to a different server. How can I inform mailman about my physically
moved postfix ? Should I just add the email domain (which this server once had) at the relay_domain section of the postfix
running on this very server?

Any idea/clue is very much welcome.

Thanks

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  4 18:37:05 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 09:37:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender Filters
In-Reply-To: <04286F9C-2F72-4FA4-863A-C27940E72C31@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC195201201040937050984b90f48dd@MSAPIRO>

Con Wieland wrote:

>I have a list set with the "List of non-member addresses whose postings will be immediately held for moderation" set up using regular expressions. 
>
>^.*@.*\.uc.*\.edu$
>^.*@uc.*\.edu$
>^.*@.*\.berkeley\.edu$
>^.*@berkeley\.edu$
>^.*@.*\.lbl\.gov$
>^.*@lbl\.gov$
>^.*@.*\.llnl\.gov$
>^.*@llnl\.gov$
>
>The other day the following message got thru:
>
[...]
>> From: Badoo <noreply at badoo.com>
>> To: "uccsc at uci.edu" <uccsc at uci.edu>
>> Sender: "uccsc-bounces at uci.edu" <uccsc-bounces at uci.edu>
[...]
>> Reply-To: "indyguide at gmail.com" <indyguide at gmail.com>
[...]
>
>and:
>
>"Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined." is set to discard.
>
>The logs don't seem to help. Any ideas? 


Is indyguide at gmail.com a list member?

If this is a default Mailman installation in this respect, a post is
considered to be from a member if any of the From:, Sender: or
Reply-To: headers contains a member address or the envelope sender is
a member. The above doesn't show the envelope sender (aka Unix From)
address and the Sender: has been munged by the list. You can see the
original values of these by looking at the message in the
archives/private/uccsc.mbox/uccsc.mbox file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  4 18:58:52 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 09:58:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Now my postfix has moved from mailman server
In-Reply-To: <20120104111316.553a4075@shiva.selfip.org>
References: <20120104111316.553a4075@shiva.selfip.org>
Message-ID: <4F04935C.5090003@msapiro.net>

On 1/3/2012 9:43 PM, J. Bakshi wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> 
> I had been running mailman and postfix on the same server. I had to add the following into main.cf to
> integrate mailman into postfix
> 
> `````````````````
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
> recipient_delimiter = +
> mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1
> ```````````````````
> 
> and the mm_cfg.py is as below
> 
> 
> `````````````````
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list.mydomain.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'list.mydomain.com'
> MTA = 'Postfix'
> POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
> POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
> DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
> SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
> SMTPPORT = '25'
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['list.xxxxx.com']
> IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'
> ```````````````````````
> 
> Now the mailserver has physically been moved to a different server. How can I inform mailman about my physically
> moved postfix ? Should I just add the email domain (which this server once had) at the relay_domain section of the postfix
> running on this very server?


If Postfix continues to run on the Mailman server, make no changes to
this Postfix or to Mailman.

If I understand correctly, the issue is that incoming list mail is now
routed (via a DNS MX record) to a different server. What to do depends
on a few things. Is list.mydomain.com a dedicated domain such that all
mail to that domain should be delivered to the Mailman server? Is the
Mailman server accessible from the outside world?

If both answers are yes, just make the MX record for list.mydomain.com
point to the Mailman server.

If the domain is dedicated, but the server is not accessible from
outside, use a transport_maps entry on the mail server to relay all mail
to the list.mydomain.com domain to the mailman server.

If both answers are no, you will need to tell the mail server to relay
all the list addresses to the Mailman server via transport_maps on the
mail server. The FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ZoCj> may help you with
generating the transport maps on the Mailman server, but they will still
have to be updated on the mail server whenever lists are added or
deleted on the Mailman server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwieland at uci.edu  Wed Jan  4 21:32:04 2012
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 12:32:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender Filters
In-Reply-To: <PC195201201040937050984b90f48dd@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201201040937050984b90f48dd@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <15653920-0E66-424E-B6DE-5D60B493B8DC@uci.edu>


On Jan 4, 2012, at 9:37 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Con Wieland wrote:
> 
>> I have a list set with the "List of non-member addresses whose postings will be immediately held for moderation" set up using regular expressions. 
>> 
>> ^.*@.*\.uc.*\.edu$
>> ^.*@uc.*\.edu$
>> ^.*@.*\.berkeley\.edu$
>> ^.*@berkeley\.edu$
>> ^.*@.*\.lbl\.gov$
>> ^.*@lbl\.gov$
>> ^.*@.*\.llnl\.gov$
>> ^.*@llnl\.gov$
>> 
>> The other day the following message got thru:
>> 
> [...]
>>> From: Badoo <noreply at badoo.com>
>>> To: "uccsc at uci.edu" <uccsc at uci.edu>
>>> Sender: "uccsc-bounces at uci.edu" <uccsc-bounces at uci.edu>
> [...]
>>> Reply-To: "indyguide at gmail.com" <indyguide at gmail.com>
> [...]
>> 
>> and:
>> 
>> "Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined." is set to discard.
>> 
>> The logs don't seem to help. Any ideas? 
> 
> 
> Is indyguide at gmail.com a list member?

Yes that address is subscribed.

> 
> If this is a default Mailman installation in this respect, a post is
> considered to be from a member if any of the From:, Sender: or
> Reply-To: headers contains a member address or the envelope sender is
> a member.

so that explains that.  I've been running Mailman for a long time and continue to learn. Thanks for the explanation.


> The above doesn't show the envelope sender (aka Unix From)
> address and the Sender: has been munged by the list. You can see the
> original values of these by looking at the message in the
> archives/private/uccsc.mbox/uccsc.mbox file.

I should have mentioned that. The envelope sender was the same (noreply at badoo.com). That was my first guess actually.

> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

Con Wieland
University of California at Irvine
Office of Information Technology
Network and Support Programming


From hkap790 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  5 03:05:59 2012
From: hkap790 at gmail.com (hk)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 20:05:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A few questions about mailman 2.1.14 install
 onDreamhost
In-Reply-To: <PC195201112151154350828ad44691f@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201112151154350828ad44691f@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4F050587.4010603@gmail.com>

Thanks again for these answers.

Now I'm wondering . . . how does one export a mailman user list to 
mass-add to another list?
I've looked everywhere, don't see a way.
This is in Mailman 2.1.11 if that matters.
Thanks,
Howard, Chicago

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> hk wrote:
> 
>> I'm considering the move of a longstanding discussion list with 600+ 
>> members from L-Soft Listserv (hosted at a university) to Mailman on 
>> Dreamhost (v2.1.14.)
>>
>> There are a few management features I've really grown to like from 
>> hosting other lists -- I was hoping if someone can tell me if there's 
>> any way to enable them in Mailman (assuming one can't hack Dreamhost's 
>> install . . .?)
>>
>> 1) Mark S helped me get a modification set up to a current mailman list 
>> I manage that enabled real-time notifications of moderation requests 
>> (Thanks again!).  Any way to do this here?
> 
> 
> I don't recall what the issue was in that case, but normally, setting
> General Options -> admin_immed_notify to Yes will cause immediate
> notification to the admins/moderators of all held messages except
> those held for 'emergency' moderation.
> 
> Note that 'emergency' is intended to be used only for emergencies such
> as a flame war. There are other ways to moderate a list in general.
> 
> 
>> 2) I suspect there's a fair amount of joining and leaving this list each 
>> day in its current incarnation, but don't have a way to receive 
>> notifications; of course Mailman does have the option of having owners 
>> notified when members join and leave, but I'm afraid this could generate 
>> too much mail for some moderators.  Is there a way to set this 
>> preference individually like in Yahoogroups so that a mod who didn't 
>> want these messages could not get them, while the other mods still would?
> 
> 
> No. Or I should say, only by leaving the moderator's address out of the
> 'owner' and 'moderator' lists which would cause that moderator to
> receive no notifications at all, which is probably not what you want.
> 
> 
>> 3) I may just be tired but is there a was to set the archives to be 
>> available only when logged in? And/or to munge e-mail addresses like on 
>> Yahoogroups?
> 
> 
> Yes, setting Archiving Options -> archive_private to private will
> require authentication to access the archives. Email address
> obfuscation in the archives is very minimal, i.e. only replacing '@'
> with ' at '.
> 
> If you want a public archive with better obfuscation, you can use a
> third party archiver such as mail-archive.com.
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan  5 03:11:50 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 18:11:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A few questions about mailman 2.1.14 install
 onDreamhost
In-Reply-To: <4F050587.4010603@gmail.com>
References: <PC195201112151154350828ad44691f@MSAPIRO>
	<4F050587.4010603@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F0506E6.3030304@msapiro.net>

On 1/4/2012 6:05 PM, hk wrote:
> 
> Now I'm wondering . . . how does one export a mailman user list to
> mass-add to another list?


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From harrison.aw at gmail.com  Fri Jan  6 22:09:33 2012
From: harrison.aw at gmail.com (Anthony Harrison)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 15:09:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Migration Issue
Message-ID: <CAHmzCjZu5WGpfvH+uuNeheZAzwhyGcy9vbkUki8X4OiNeoDBHA@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to migrate mailing lists from Mailman 2.1.11 running on Ubuntu
8.04.3 LTS to Mailman 2.1.12 on Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server release 6.2
(Santiago). I'm not sure how mailman was installed/built on the Ubuntu box
but on the Redhat box, it was installed using yum.

I have followed the guides on list migration and rsync'ed the lists, data,
and archives directory from the Ubuntu box to the Redhat box, updated the
permissions, and regenerated the aliases. However, when I go to update the
urls for mailing lists via fix_url, none of the allegedly migrated lists
can be found.

Has anyone encountered and dealt with this issue successfully?

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jan  7 18:56:32 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 09:56:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Migration Issue
In-Reply-To: <CAHmzCjZu5WGpfvH+uuNeheZAzwhyGcy9vbkUki8X4OiNeoDBHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201201070956320500e73522d4@MSAPIRO>

Anthony Harrison wrote:

>I am trying to migrate mailing lists from Mailman 2.1.11 running on Ubuntu
>8.04.3 LTS to Mailman 2.1.12 on Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server release 6.2
>(Santiago). I'm not sure how mailman was installed/built on the Ubuntu box
>but on the Redhat box, it was installed using yum.
>
>I have followed the guides on list migration and rsync'ed the lists, data,
>and archives directory from the Ubuntu box to the Redhat box, updated the
>permissions, and regenerated the aliases. However, when I go to update the
>urls for mailing lists via fix_url, none of the allegedly migrated lists
>can be found.


Most likely because you have rsync'd the lists/ directory to the same
path on the RedHat box as on the Ubuntu box and that's not where the
RedHat Mailman is looking for it.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/KYCB>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sascha at rissel.it  Sun Jan  8 14:50:38 2012
From: sascha at rissel.it (Sascha Rissel)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 14:50:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam Filter settings
Message-ID: <CAKGvnED6f0UECTLECG1ifiu422YG8w=BmeCocKxG9SM88SiU=A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

during the last days I receive a lot of spam mails like "Yulenka wants to
be your friend" in subject.
Now my knowledge about regular expressions has grown a little old...
Can someone please give me some help on how I should configure my mailmail
spam filter to filter out mails with a subject like "... wants to be your
friend"?

Thanks a lot!
Sascha.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jan  8 17:44:23 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 08:44:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam Filter settings
In-Reply-To: <CAKGvnED6f0UECTLECG1ifiu422YG8w=BmeCocKxG9SM88SiU=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952012010808442306401603db97@MSAPIRO>

Sascha Rissel wrote:
>
>during the last days I receive a lot of spam mails like "Yulenka wants to
>be your friend" in subject.
>Now my knowledge about regular expressions has grown a little old...
>Can someone please give me some help on how I should configure my mailmail
>spam filter to filter out mails with a subject like "... wants to be your
>friend"?


See <http://docs.python.org/library/re.html#regular-expression-syntax>.

For this, in Privacy options... -> Spam filters -> header_filter_rules,
use a regexp like

^Subject:.* wants to be your friend

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Tue Jan 10 04:45:37 2012
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 10:45:37 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment handling
Message-ID: <4F0BB461.7070002@dutaint.co.id>

Hi there,

I have read the archive

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg58949.html

----
> i wan to know if there is a way to "detach" the attachment, place the
> file on a public web server and provide a link into the message to
> download the file from the webserver.


In the list's web admin interface Non-digest options Section, set
scrub_nondigest to Yes.
-----

just need to confirm, if I set list restriction to 1024 KB (for example)
will MailMan scrub the attachment (and making attachment linking, URL
link) if the posting exceed 1024 KB?

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah




From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 10 06:25:08 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 21:25:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment handling
In-Reply-To: <4F0BB461.7070002@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <PC195201201092125080828e823e904@MSAPIRO>

Syafril Hermansyah wrote:
>
>I have read the archive
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg58949.html
>
>----
>> i wan to know if there is a way to "detach" the attachment, place the
>> file on a public web server and provide a link into the message to
>> download the file from the webserver.
>
>
>In the list's web admin interface Non-digest options Section, set
>scrub_nondigest to Yes.
>-----
>
>just need to confirm, if I set list restriction to 1024 KB (for example)
>will MailMan scrub the attachment (and making attachment linking, URL
>link) if the posting exceed 1024 KB?


No, not without changes. At least not if the held message is not
approved. The default processing pipeline includes the following
handlers in the following order

Moderate - list membership tests, member moderation and non-member
           actions.
Hold     - miscellaneous holds including too big
MimeDel  - content filtering
Scrubber - scrubbing and storing aside of attachments for lists with
           scrub_nondigest = yes.

The pipeline can be reordered. For example, one can put

GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('MimeDel')
GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Hold'), 'MimeDel')

in mm_cfg.py to move MimeDel before Hold. The reason one might want to
do this is so a 'too big' hold is based on a content filtered message.

In the same way, one could put Scrubber ahead of hold so that 'too big'
is based in the scrubbed message, but this is not a good idea.
Scrubber should never be ahead of MimeDel because if it is, various
parts will be scrubbed and stored aside even if they would have been
removed completely by content filtering.

Even if the order were Moderate, MimeDel, Scrubber, Hold, there would
be problems because attachments would be scrubbed and stored aside
before the message was potentially held for a miscellaneous hold. Then
if the message were rejected or discarded, there would be orphaned
stored attachments.

If what you want is for max_message_size to apply to the message as
received before scrubbing, then that is what you will get without
making changes to the pipeline.

If, however, what you want is for max_message_size to apply to the
scrubbed message, you would need to reorder the pipeline, and this is
problematic for the reasons given above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Tue Jan 10 10:02:59 2012
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 16:02:59 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment handling
In-Reply-To: <PC195201201092125080828e823e904@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201201092125080828e823e904@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4F0BFEC3.8070003@dutaint.co.id>

On 01/10/2012 12:25 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> just need to confirm, if I set list restriction to 1024 KB (for example)
>> will MailMan scrub the attachment (and making attachment linking, URL
>> link) if the posting exceed 1024 KB?
> 
> 
> No, not without changes. At least not if the held message is not
> approved. 

> If what you want is for max_message_size to apply to the message as
> received before scrubbing, then that is what you will get without
> making changes to the pipeline.

Thanks Mark, I will go with not making pipeline ordering.
No problem for me to make approval first rather than I must making own
attachment linking (using redirect feature from my mailer as is now) :-)

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah



From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Tue Jan 10 17:19:42 2012
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:19:42 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment handling
In-Reply-To: <4F0BFEC3.8070003@dutaint.co.id>
References: <PC195201201092125080828e823e904@MSAPIRO>
	<4F0BFEC3.8070003@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <4F0C651E.3010700@dutaint.co.id>

On 10/01/12 16:02, Syafril Hermansyah wrote:

>> > No, not without changes. At least not if the held message is not
>> > approved. 

>> > If what you want is for max_message_size to apply to the message as
>> > received before scrubbing, then that is what you will get without
>> > making changes to the pipeline.

> Thanks Mark, I will go with not making pipeline ordering.
> No problem for me to make approval first rather than I must making own
> attachment linking (using redirect feature from my mailer as is now) :-)

Wow it work fine!
I don't even need to approve, the message passed through to the list
with attachment link listed for every single attachment.
For months I was researching the way to do this after tired making
manual attachment linking for big size message posting over and over :-)
Thanks again Mark Sapiro!

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah


From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Tue Jan 10 17:47:06 2012
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:47:06 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment handling
In-Reply-To: <4F0C651E.3010700@dutaint.co.id>
References: <PC195201201092125080828e823e904@MSAPIRO>
	<4F0BFEC3.8070003@dutaint.co.id> <4F0C651E.3010700@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <4F0C6B8A.9010902@dutaint.co.id>

On 10/01/12 23:19, Syafril Hermansyah wrote:

> Wow it work fine!
> I don't even need to approve, the message passed through to the list
> with attachment link listed for every single attachment.


Oops wait a minute.... it seems there is something not working as expected.
Actually the message size not exceed the list size limit, but still
Mailman scrubbed by the attachment.
Where am I wrong?



-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 10 18:05:13 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 09:05:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment handling
In-Reply-To: <4F0C6B8A.9010902@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <PC19520120110090513048465185c71@MSAPIRO>

Syafril Hermansyah wrote:
>
>Oops wait a minute.... it seems there is something not working as expected.
>Actually the message size not exceed the list size limit, but still
>Mailman scrubbed by the attachment.
>Where am I wrong?


If you set scrub_nondigest to Yes, all attachments will be scrubbed
from all messages delivered to the list regardless of any holds.

If the message does not exceed max_message_size and is not held for any
other reason, it will be sent to the list members with attachments
scrubbed.

If the message does exceed max_message_size or is held for any other
reason and it is subsequently approved, the attachments will be
scrubbed after the message is approved and before it is delivered to
the list members.

If you want to scrub attachments only from 'large' messages, this
feature won't do it. You would need to do something such as creating a
custom handler (see <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>) that would invoke
the scrubber process only on large messages and replace Scrubber in
the pipeline with this handler.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Tue Jan 10 18:14:42 2012
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 00:14:42 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment handling
In-Reply-To: <PC19520120110090513048465185c71@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19520120110090513048465185c71@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4F0C7202.4020103@dutaint.co.id>

On 11/01/12 00:05, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> If you want to scrub attachments only from 'large' messages, this
> feature won't do it. You would need to do something such as creating a
> custom handler (see <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>) that would invoke
> the scrubber process only on large messages and replace Scrubber in
> the pipeline with this handler.

Thanks for the hints.
Will try to implement ASAP.

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah


From ghenry at cmi.univ-mrs.fr  Wed Jan 11 11:56:49 2012
From: ghenry at cmi.univ-mrs.fr (Gerard Henry)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 11:56:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder for moderator?
Message-ID: <4F0D6AF1.1000205@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>

hello all,
i'm using mailman 2.1.8. A user who acts as a moderator forgot his 
password. As administrator, i can reset a new password for the 
moderator, but is it possible to have a password reminder for the moderator?
i know that mailman just needs a password to moderate the message, and 
don't need an email. But the email is stored in mailman, so i'm 
wondering if there is a form somewhere to permit the moderator to reset 
his password without admin action.


thanks in advance for help,


gerard

From misterbhatt at gmail.com  Wed Jan 11 11:49:43 2012
From: misterbhatt at gmail.com (Amit Bhatt)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 16:19:43 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue facing with mail delivery
Message-ID: <15802037B00845E69382028F71BD8857@farhorizonindia.net>

Hello all,

I am a new member of this mailing list.

Currently I am running a list on Mailman 2.1.14-1. We are facing an issue that the E-mails sent by our subscribers  are neither reaching to the list nore reaching to the inbox of any user subscribed to our mailing list.
Members do not receive any error or bouncing notification while sending the mails, but it simply get disappeared after sent.

I raised this issue to our web service provider and they have also refreshed their mail server but nothing is happening.

I would be highly obliged if someone can let me know the possible reason of this problem and solutions to rectify the issue.

Thanks,

Amit Bhatt

New Delhi, India

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 11 17:32:31 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 08:32:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue facing with mail delivery
In-Reply-To: <15802037B00845E69382028F71BD8857@farhorizonindia.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201201110832310968f9201127@MSAPIRO>

Amit Bhatt wrote:
>
>Currently I am running a list on Mailman 2.1.14-1. We are facing an issue that the E-mails sent by our subscribers  are neither reaching to the list nore reaching to the inbox of any user subscribed to our mailing list.
>Members do not receive any error or bouncing notification while sending the mails, but it simply get disappeared after sent.
>
>I raised this issue to our web service provider and they have also refreshed their mail server but nothing is happening.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

Also, you or the hosting provider need to check the MTA logs on the
Mailman server to see if the mail is even being delivered to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 11 17:36:19 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 08:36:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder for moderator?
In-Reply-To: <4F0D6AF1.1000205@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>
Message-ID: <PC195201201110836190750f9201041@MSAPIRO>

Gerard Henry wrote:

>i'm using mailman 2.1.8. A user who acts as a moderator forgot his 
>password. As administrator, i can reset a new password for the 
>moderator, but is it possible to have a password reminder for the moderator?


No. List admin and moderator passwords are kept in an encrypted form
and the plain text password is not retrievable.


>i know that mailman just needs a password to moderate the message, and 
>don't need an email. But the email is stored in mailman, so i'm 
>wondering if there is a form somewhere to permit the moderator to reset 
>his password without admin action.


No there is not.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sascha at rissel.it  Wed Jan 11 17:44:30 2012
From: sascha at rissel.it (Sascha Rissel)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:44:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Login as Mailman admin via URL parameters?
Message-ID: <CAKGvnEBkCPM8DMr1BZnY5umJ-az-rYfX=se97EP9+iJXYf51Qw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

just one thing that came to my mind:
Since I administrate several mailing lists, it is always a bit complicated
to retrieve the appropriate password from a password tool and then being
able to log into the site.
I know some Internet epplications, where administrators can log in using
request parameters, such as http://<myurl>?user=<user>&password=<password>
Is this possible with mailman?
It would save me quite some overhead, since often I just want to moderate a
single email, which means log in procedure takes longer than the moderation
process itself.

Regards,
Sascha.

From ghenry at cmi.univ-mrs.fr  Wed Jan 11 18:05:21 2012
From: ghenry at cmi.univ-mrs.fr (Gerard Henry)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 18:05:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder for moderator?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201201110836190750f9201041@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201201110836190750f9201041@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4F0DC151.8050206@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>

On 01/11/12 05:36 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Gerard Henry wrote:
>
>> i'm using mailman 2.1.8. A user who acts as a moderator forgot his
>> password. As administrator, i can reset a new password for the
>> moderator, but is it possible to have a password reminder for the moderator?
>
>
> No. List admin and moderator passwords are kept in an encrypted form
> and the plain text password is not retrievable.
>

ok, but the idea was to receive an url to reset it, not to retrieve it. 
The problem is that moderators are persons who forgot regularly the 
password, and instead of asking the administrator, they do nothing and 
pending messages become numerous...
or, since all the moderators share the same password (since i can only 
set one password for moderator), they tend to write it somewhere  (image 
3-4 persons sharing the moderator role) and it may happen that anybody 
can get it...? ok, writing this and i understand that the problem isn't 
easy... but the need is here, because some lists need to be moderated by 
several people.


thanks for the reply


>
>> i know that mailman just needs a password to moderate the message, and
>> don't need an email. But the email is stored in mailman, so i'm
>> wondering if there is a form somewhere to permit the moderator to reset
>> his password without admin action.
>
>
> No there is not.
>


From ghenry at cmi.univ-mrs.fr  Wed Jan 11 21:18:00 2012
From: ghenry at cmi.univ-mrs.fr (Gerard Henry)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 21:18:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder for moderator?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201201110836190750f9201041@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201201110836190750f9201041@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4F0DEE78.5020504@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>

On 01/11/12 05:36 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Gerard Henry wrote:
>
>> i'm using mailman 2.1.8. A user who acts as a moderator forgot his
>> password. As administrator, i can reset a new password for the
>> moderator, but is it possible to have a password reminder for the moderator?
>
>
> No. List admin and moderator passwords are kept in an encrypted form
> and the plain text password is not retrievable.
>

i'm sorry if this is a newbie question, but why the moderator is not 
taken as a member of a list? in my opinion, this is often the case, 
isn't ? and if the moderator is also a member of the list, he has to 
remember two different password, not very friendly

gerard

From frank.bell at washburn.edu  Wed Jan 11 21:26:55 2012
From: frank.bell at washburn.edu (Frank Bell)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 14:26:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder for moderator?
In-Reply-To: <4F0DEE78.5020504@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>
References: <PC195201201110836190750f9201041@MSAPIRO>
	<4F0DEE78.5020504@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>
Message-ID: <4F0DF08F.2020503@washburn.edu>

I guess the payoff is that the software works well, is free, and 
maintained for free.
Plus, we have Mr Sapiro who nicely answers our questions for free.

Thanks Mark!!

Sorry, the response just bugged me.


On 1/11/2012 2:18 PM, Gerard Henry wrote:
> On 01/11/12 05:36 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Gerard Henry wrote:
>>
>>> i'm using mailman 2.1.8. A user who acts as a moderator forgot his
>>> password. As administrator, i can reset a new password for the
>>> moderator, but is it possible to have a password reminder for the 
>>> moderator?
>>
>>
>> No. List admin and moderator passwords are kept in an encrypted form
>> and the plain text password is not retrievable.
>>
>
> i'm sorry if this is a newbie question, but why the moderator is not 
> taken as a member of a list? in my opinion, this is often the case, 
> isn't ? and if the moderator is also a member of the list, he has to 
> remember two different password, not very friendly
>
> gerard
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/frank.bell%40washburn.edu

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Jan 12 05:56:48 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 13:56:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder for moderator?
In-Reply-To: <4F0DEE78.5020504@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>
References: <PC195201201110836190750f9201041@MSAPIRO>
	<4F0DEE78.5020504@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>
Message-ID: <87ty418qnj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Gerard Henry writes:

 > i'm sorry if this is a newbie question, but why the moderator is not 
 > taken as a member of a list?

-1

Some moderators moderate many lists (in some cases, hundreds, but
dozens are not uncommon), and are members of few.  For those people
who operate that way, "auto-membership" would be a significant
annoyance, and in mass-moderation contexts, it would all come at once.
OTOH, people can only read so many lists, and they will join as they
become interested, thus amortizing the scutwork.

 > in my opinion, this is often the case, isn't ? and if the moderator
 > is also a member of the list, he has to remember two different
 > password, not very friendly

With multiple moderators, that would mean that they can all access
each other's subscriptions.  Also the moderator can change her
personal password.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Jan 12 06:05:50 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 14:05:50 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder for moderator?
In-Reply-To: <4F0DF08F.2020503@washburn.edu>
References: <PC195201201110836190750f9201041@MSAPIRO>
	<4F0DEE78.5020504@cmi.univ-mrs.fr> <4F0DF08F.2020503@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <87sjjl8q8h.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Frank Bell writes:
 > I guess the payoff is that the software works well, is free, and 
 > maintained for free.
 > Plus, we have Mr Sapiro who nicely answers our questions for free.
 > 
 > Thanks Mark!!

I'll certainly second this!

 > Sorry, the response just bugged me.

I understand your irritation[1], but please remember that even if a
person's English seems impeccable, the .fr (etc) indicates that it is
probably his second (or third) language.  Courteous forms differ in
different languages, and they're quite hard to learn (try Japanese if
you're into pain!)  After all, he did try to soften it with a
reference to "newbie question".

Footnotes: 
[1]  Sorry, Gerard, I can't explain. :-(  Maybe better phrasing would
be "It seems to me this case is very common.  Would it be helpful to
have an option?"

I also just realized that it's technically not possible to
auto-subscribe moderators in Mailman 2, because moderators are
identified not by their email address, but by possession of the
moderator password.  So Mailman doesn't know who to subscribe!




From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 12 07:24:18 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 22:24:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Login as Mailman admin via URL parameters?
In-Reply-To: <CAKGvnEBkCPM8DMr1BZnY5umJ-az-rYfX=se97EP9+iJXYf51Qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520120111222418090648d1105c@MSAPIRO>

Sascha Rissel wrote:
>
>just one thing that came to my mind:
>Since I administrate several mailing lists, it is always a bit complicated
>to retrieve the appropriate password from a password tool and then being
>able to log into the site.
>I know some Internet epplications, where administrators can log in using
>request parameters, such as http://<myurl>?user=<user>&password=<password>
>Is this possible with mailman?


http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/list-name?adminpw=password

or

http://www.example.com/mailman/admindb/list-name?adminpw=password

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 12 07:35:46 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 22:35:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder for moderator?
In-Reply-To: <4F0DC151.8050206@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>
Message-ID: <PC1952012011122354605009226f022@MSAPIRO>

Gerard Henry wrote:
>
>ok, but the idea was to receive an url to reset it, not to retrieve it. 


As I indicated, there is currently no admin/moderator reset request
mechanism. This would not work well with multiple admins or moderators.

This will all change in Mailman 3. There an individual will have only
one registration in a particular Mailman installation with a password
reset mechanism. That one person can have multiple email addresses and
multiple roles. E.g., member of list 1 with delivery to address 1,
digest member of list 2 with delivery to address 2, moderator and
member of list 3, and so forth.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 12 07:37:19 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 22:37:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder for moderator?
In-Reply-To: <4F0DEE78.5020504@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>
Message-ID: <PC1952012011122371908289226f14f@MSAPIRO>

Gerard Henry wrote:
>and if the moderator is also a member of the list, he has to 
>remember two different password, not very friendly


This will change in Mailman 3. See my immediately previous reply.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ghenry at cmi.univ-mrs.fr  Thu Jan 12 07:38:30 2012
From: ghenry at cmi.univ-mrs.fr (Gerard Henry)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 07:38:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder for moderator?
In-Reply-To: <87sjjl8q8h.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC195201201110836190750f9201041@MSAPIRO>	<4F0DEE78.5020504@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>
	<4F0DF08F.2020503@washburn.edu>
	<87sjjl8q8h.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4F0E7FE6.9030505@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>

On 01/12/12 06:05 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Frank Bell writes:
>   >  I guess the payoff is that the software works well, is free, and
>   >  maintained for free.
>   >  Plus, we have Mr Sapiro who nicely answers our questions for free.
>   >
>   >  Thanks Mark!!
>
> I'll certainly second this!
>
>   >  Sorry, the response just bugged me.
>
> I understand your irritation[1], but please remember that even if a
> person's English seems impeccable, the .fr (etc) indicates that it is
> probably his second (or third) language.  Courteous forms differ in
> different languages, and they're quite hard to learn (try Japanese if
> you're into pain!)  After all, he did try to soften it with a
> reference to "newbie question".
>
> Footnotes:
> [1]  Sorry, Gerard, I can't explain. :-(  Maybe better phrasing would
> be "It seems to me this case is very common.  Would it be helpful to
> have an option?"
>
> I also just realized that it's technically not possible to
> auto-subscribe moderators in Mailman 2, because moderators are
> identified not by their email address, but by possession of the
> moderator password.  So Mailman doesn't know who to subscribe!
>

thanks for all replies, and sorry if i hurt with my "bad" english. 
You're perfectly right...
I'm using mailman since many years, and as you can see at the archives, 
i rarely post because i have no problem.

gerard


From jeff at jeffbasham.com  Wed Jan 11 21:24:05 2012
From: jeff at jeffbasham.com (Jeff Basham)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 12:24:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Blackberry
Message-ID: <CAN90Lv=MXbtaqS-aLUkk26o9tHj_WfyjqvZJqhBKYdxu1j=jJg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello -
I have a subscriber who is on multiple lists that I run.  He gets email on
his Blackberry, and one list is completely fine ... the other list he can't
see the body of the email, only the header.  The only difference with the
2nd list is that it has a header configured in the admin interface.  I
removed the header, and he saw the message without the header just fine,
but leaving it off permanently is not an option.

The header started with "****", so I changed that to "----" and there was
no change ... His Blackberry still would not display the body of the email,
which for everyone else, regular mail clients, iPhones, and other smart
phones see the message just fine.

Both lists are identical in the admin interface, except for the header.
 I've checked every single setting side-by-side.

Any ideas on what to try next?  I am thinking that the blackberry mail
software is seeing the header as a 'signature' and not displaying anything
below it, but I might be way off-base.  I don't have a blackberry, and
never have had one, so I am a little blind on that end.

Anyway .. TIA for any help.

Jeff

From su.vicepresident at ucs.ac.uk  Wed Jan 11 17:07:34 2012
From: su.vicepresident at ucs.ac.uk (Sam Bennett)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 16:07:34 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting all lists and any trace of mailman from
	our systems
Message-ID: <879EE4A85FD39E4EAE424A7047641E302E0761@exsrv1.UCS.AC.UK>

Hello,
Apologies for blundering in and emailing the wrong lists - I need to get rid of all of the mailman delivery systems that my organisation has previously set up - I have most of the admin passwords as far as I'm aware, but I'm unfamiliar with this system - I have tried to look up the answer in previous threads on this forum but I don't understand what the commands mean and how to operate the system. Please can I get some guidance before I flip out like a ninja and alarm my colleagues.

Cheers

Sam Bennett
Vice President (Rights & Activities)
University Campus Suffolk Union
?

office: +44 (0)1473 338155
e-mail: su.vicepresident at ucs.ac.uk
web: www.UCSunion.com
Twitter: @UCSunion_VP

University Campus Suffolk Students' Union is a company registered in England and Wales with registered number 6967378 and registered office at Waterfront Building, Neptune Quay, Ipswich, IP4 1QJ. UCS Students' Union is an exempt charity.





University Campus Suffolk is the trading name of University Campus Suffolk Ltd. Registered in England and Wales, company number: 05078498.

Registered Address: Waterfront Building, Neptune Quay, Ipswich, IP4 1QJ

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 12 08:22:14 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 23:22:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Blackberry
In-Reply-To: <CAN90Lv=MXbtaqS-aLUkk26o9tHj_WfyjqvZJqhBKYdxu1j=jJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201201112322140562816ed080@MSAPIRO>

Jeff Basham wrote:

>I have a subscriber who is on multiple lists that I run.  He gets email on
>his Blackberry, and one list is completely fine ... the other list he can't
>see the body of the email, only the header.  The only difference with the
>2nd list is that it has a header configured in the admin interface.  I
>removed the header, and he saw the message without the header just fine,
>but leaving it off permanently is not an option.
[...]
>Any ideas on what to try next?  I am thinking that the blackberry mail
>software is seeing the header as a 'signature' and not displaying anything
>below it, but I might be way off-base.  I don't have a blackberry, and
>never have had one, so I am a little blind on that end.


The header is added as a separate MIME part because the original
message is already multipart or doesn't consist of a single text/plain
message body.

The Blackberry sees the initial header text/plain part as the message
body and everything else as either attachments or things to be
ignored. This has nothing to do with the content of msg_header, just
the fact that there is one.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9> for more information.

In your user's case, this is basically a problem with the Blackberry
mail client. It is not unique to Blackberry, many "smart phone" mail
clients fail miserably at displaying messages with any sort of complex
MIME structure.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 12 08:30:50 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 23:30:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting all lists and any trace of mailman
 from our systems
In-Reply-To: <879EE4A85FD39E4EAE424A7047641E302E0761@exsrv1.UCS.AC.UK>
References: <879EE4A85FD39E4EAE424A7047641E302E0761@exsrv1.UCS.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <4F0E8C2A.6080701@msapiro.net>

On 1/11/2012 8:07 AM, Sam Bennett wrote:
> Hello, Apologies for blundering in and emailing the wrong lists - I
> need to get rid of all of the mailman delivery systems that my
> organisation has previously set up - I have most of the admin
> passwords as far as I'm aware, but I'm unfamiliar with this system -
> I have tried to look up the answer in previous threads on this forum
> but I don't understand what the commands mean and how to operate the
> system. Please can I get some guidance before I flip out like a ninja
> and alarm my colleagues.


Do you have command line access to the server that hosts your Mailman
installation? I.e. can you log in to a shell? If you do, you need to
find Mailman's bin/ directory and run bin/rmlist to remove lists. run
"bin/rmlist -h" for more details.

If you do not have sufficient access to find and run this command on the
server, you need to contact the people who do.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ghenry at cmi.univ-mrs.fr  Thu Jan 12 08:34:52 2012
From: ghenry at cmi.univ-mrs.fr (Gerard Henry)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 08:34:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder for moderator?
In-Reply-To: <PC1952012011122354605009226f022@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1952012011122354605009226f022@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4F0E8D1C.9000300@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>

On 01/12/12 07:35 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Gerard Henry wrote:
>>
>> ok, but the idea was to receive an url to reset it, not to retrieve it.
>
>
> As I indicated, there is currently no admin/moderator reset request
> mechanism. This would not work well with multiple admins or moderators.
>
> This will all change in Mailman 3. There an individual will have only
> one registration in a particular Mailman installation with a password
> reset mechanism. That one person can have multiple email addresses and
> multiple roles. E.g., member of list 1 with delivery to address 1,
> digest member of list 2 with delivery to address 2, moderator and
> member of list 3, and so forth.
>

good new! very thanks for your job

gerard

From odhiambo at gmail.com  Thu Jan 12 08:37:24 2012
From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 10:37:24 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting all lists and any trace of mailman
 from our systems
In-Reply-To: <879EE4A85FD39E4EAE424A7047641E302E0761@exsrv1.UCS.AC.UK>
References: <879EE4A85FD39E4EAE424A7047641E302E0761@exsrv1.UCS.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <CAAdA2WNjnN_YaDSAhemqpwC4qGf5HFXJbsp=3F2D99KhCdfa9Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 19:07, Sam Bennett <su.vicepresident at ucs.ac.uk>wrote:

> Hello,
> Apologies for blundering in and emailing the wrong lists - I need to get
> rid of all of the mailman delivery systems that my organisation has
> previously set up - I have most of the admin passwords as far as I'm aware,
> but I'm unfamiliar with this system - I have tried to look up the answer in
> previous threads on this forum but I don't understand what the commands
> mean and how to operate the system. Please can I get some guidance before I
> flip out like a ninja and alarm my colleagues.
>
>
I think it's very dangerous that you have the power you say/imply you wield
over your systems.
I feel like assisting you, but I'd like to first understand where you are
coming from. Why is it that you want to get rid of Mailman? What has
happened? Why don't you ask the person who set it up to shut it down?
Getting rid of Mailman should be as simple as commenting out a few lines in
the configuration file(s) of the SMTP engine running on your server, then
restarting the SMTP engine. If you don't know how to do that, you really
need to provide more information, and better answers to my foregoing
questions.

-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.

From troy.campbell at fedex.com  Fri Jan 13 01:15:11 2012
From: troy.campbell at fedex.com (Troy Campbell)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 17:15:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman not working...
Message-ID: <4F0F778F.6080105@fedex.com>

For some reason Mailman just stopped working and I must confess that I 
have forgot how to debug since it
has run so well for the last couple of years...it appears
that when a Mailman email is sent to the Mailman server it that it 
doesn't recognize it as "local" but instead tries to
relay out and then the relay sends it back and this happens multilple 
times if I'm reading the logs right so I assume
that the "aliases" file for the Mailman lists isn't being "recognized" 
properly by Postfix?

Here is some info (yes, I know it's ancient):

rpm -qa | grep -i mailman
mailman-2.1.9-4.el5

/etc/postfix/main.cf:
alias_maps =    hash:/etc/aliases
                 hash:/etc/mailman/aliases

and in /etc/mailman/aliases it has the list troytest with this:
# STANZA START: troytest
# CREATED: Sun Mar 14 19:20:17 2010
troytest:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post troytest"
troytest-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin troytest"
troytest-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces troytest"
troytest-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm troytest"
troytest-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join troytest"
troytest-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave troytest"
troytest-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner troytest"
troytest-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request troytest"
troytest-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe troytest"
troytest-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe troytest"
# STANZA END: troytest

There is also a python process owned by mailman that is varying between 
75-100% of the CPU.

I realize that Postfix per se is out of the scope of this list but any 
suggestions/tips are sincerely appreciated.
My current thinking is I need to run a "postmap" command to update the 
aliases config perhaps?

Regards,

-- 
Troy
719-484-2300
This email was created using 100% recycled organic free range electrons.


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 13 01:48:54 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 16:48:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman not working...
In-Reply-To: <4F0F778F.6080105@fedex.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201201121648540312a655c1ae@MSAPIRO>

Troy Campbell wrote:

>For some reason Mailman just stopped working and I must confess that I 
>have forgot how to debug since it
>has run so well for the last couple of years...it appears
>that when a Mailman email is sent to the Mailman server it that it 
>doesn't recognize it as "local" but instead tries to
>relay out and then the relay sends it back and this happens multilple 
>times if I'm reading the logs right so I assume
>that the "aliases" file for the Mailman lists isn't being "recognized" 
>properly by Postfix?


Yes, it sounds like a Postfix issue, but in order to say anything, we'd
need to see "postconf -n" and some relevant Postfix log messages.


>Here is some info (yes, I know it's ancient):
>
>rpm -qa | grep -i mailman
>mailman-2.1.9-4.el5
>
>/etc/postfix/main.cf:
>alias_maps =    hash:/etc/aliases
>                 hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
>
>and in /etc/mailman/aliases it has the list troytest with this:
># STANZA START: troytest
># CREATED: Sun Mar 14 19:20:17 2010
>troytest:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post troytest"
>troytest-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin troytest"
>troytest-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces troytest"
>troytest-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm troytest"
>troytest-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join troytest"
>troytest-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave troytest"
>troytest-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner troytest"
>troytest-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request troytest"
>troytest-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe troytest"
>troytest-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe troytest"
># STANZA END: troytest
>
>There is also a python process owned by mailman that is varying between 
>75-100% of the CPU.


Which one? (ps -fw)


>I realize that Postfix per se is out of the scope of this list but any 
>suggestions/tips are sincerely appreciated.
>My current thinking is I need to run a "postmap" command to update the 
>aliases config perhaps?


The command is postalias, not postmap, and it's unlikely to help unless
perhaps you previously ran 'postmap /etc/mailman/aliases', but it
couldn't hurt to run 'postalias /etc/mailman/aliases'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From troy.campbell at fedex.com  Fri Jan 13 03:09:41 2012
From: troy.campbell at fedex.com (Troy Campbell)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 19:09:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman not working...
In-Reply-To: <PC195201201121648540312a655c1ae@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201201121648540312a655c1ae@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4F0F9265.5060802@fedex.com>

Thanks so much Mark...see inline replies below

Troy
This email was created using 100% recycled organic free range electrons.


On 1/12/2012 5:48 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Troy Campbell wrote:
>
>> For some reason Mailman just stopped working and I must confess that I
>> have forgot how to debug since it
>> has run so well for the last couple of years...it appears
>> that when a Mailman email is sent to the Mailman server it that it
>> doesn't recognize it as "local" but instead tries to
>> relay out and then the relay sends it back and this happens multilple
>> times if I'm reading the logs right so I assume
>> that the "aliases" file for the Mailman lists isn't being "recognized"
>> properly by Postfix?
>
> Yes, it sounds like a Postfix issue, but in order to say anything, we'd
> need to see "postconf -n" and some relevant Postfix log messages.
# postconf -n
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases                hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
html_directory = no
inet_interfaces = all
local_recipient_maps =
mail_owner = postfix
mailbox_size_limit = 0
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq.postfix
manpage_directory = /usr/share/man
mydestination = $myhostname                
localhost.$mydomain                localhost                
localhost.localdomain                request1.localdomain                
request2.localdomain                
request1.rmtc.fedex.com                
request2.rmtc.fedex.com                
mailman.rmtc.fedex.com                mailman2.rmtc.fedex.com
mynetworks = 127.0.0.1/32                146.18.0.0/16                
155.161.0.0/16                161.135.0.0/16                
165.150.0.0/16                170.5.0.0/16                
170.86.0.0/16                172.18.64.0/18                
192.189.184.0/22                198.140.0.0/22                
199.81.0.0/16                199.82.0.0/16                
204.135.100.0/23                204.135.106.0/23                
204.135.108.0/23                204.135.92.0/23                
204.135.94.0/23                204.135.96.0/23                
204.135.97.0/23                172.31.248.0/23                
172.31.252.0/23
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases.postfix
owner_request_special = no
permit_mx_backup_networks = $mynetworks
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.3.3/README_FILES
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_domains = cosd.fedex.com                rmtc.fedex.com
relayhost = mapper.mail.fedex.com
sample_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.3.3/samples
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix
setgid_group = postdrop
smtpd_authorized_verp_clients = localhost
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = check_recipient_access 
hash:/etc/postfix/access        permit_mynetworks        
reject_unauth_destination
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550

>
>> Here is some info (yes, I know it's ancient):
>>
>> rpm -qa | grep -i mailman
>> mailman-2.1.9-4.el5
>>
>> /etc/postfix/main.cf:
>> alias_maps =    hash:/etc/aliases
>>                  hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
>>
>> and in /etc/mailman/aliases it has the list troytest with this:
>> # STANZA START: troytest
>> # CREATED: Sun Mar 14 19:20:17 2010
>> troytest:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post troytest"
>> troytest-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin troytest"
>> troytest-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces troytest"
>> troytest-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm troytest"
>> troytest-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join troytest"
>> troytest-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave troytest"
>> troytest-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner troytest"
>> troytest-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request troytest"
>> troytest-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe troytest"
>> troytest-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
> troytest"
>> # STANZA END: troytest
>>
>> There is also a python process owned by mailman that is varying between
>> 75-100% of the CPU.
>
> Which one? (ps -fw)
> mailman  21869 21862 92 16:16 ?        02:24:52 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
>
>
>
>> I realize that Postfix per se is out of the scope of this list but any
>> suggestions/tips are sincerely appreciated.
>> My current thinking is I need to run a "postmap" command to update the
>> aliases config perhaps?
>
> The command is postalias, not postmap, and it's unlikely to help unless
> perhaps you previously ran 'postmap /etc/mailman/aliases', but it
> couldn't hurt to run 'postalias /etc/mailman/aliases'.
It seems to be recognizing the email as local now:

Jan 12 18:57:27 request1 sendmail[3015]: q0D1vRSU003015: 
to=troytest at mailman.rmtc.fedex.com, ctladdr=root (0/0), delay=00:00:00, 
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=30076, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], 
dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as C7FE237878)
Jan 12 18:57:28 request1 postfix/local[1069]: C7FE237878: 
to=<troytest at mailman2.rmtc.fedex.com>, relay=local, delay=0.23, 
delays=0.07/0/0/0.16, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: 
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post troytest)

No email is coming out though?  It should be "expanding" to my email 
address?


>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 13 04:05:17 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 19:05:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman not working...
In-Reply-To: <4F0F9265.5060802@fedex.com>
References: <PC195201201121648540312a655c1ae@MSAPIRO>
	<4F0F9265.5060802@fedex.com>
Message-ID: <4F0F9F6D.7070607@msapiro.net>

On 1/12/2012 6:09 PM, Troy Campbell wrote:

> It seems to be recognizing the email as local now:
> 
> Jan 12 18:57:27 request1 sendmail[3015]: q0D1vRSU003015:
> to=troytest at mailman.rmtc.fedex.com, ctladdr=root (0/0), delay=00:00:00,
> xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=30076, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1],
> dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as C7FE237878)
> Jan 12 18:57:28 request1 postfix/local[1069]: C7FE237878:
> to=<troytest at mailman2.rmtc.fedex.com>, relay=local, delay=0.23,
> delays=0.07/0/0/0.16, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post troytest)
> 
> No email is coming out though?  It should be "expanding" to my email
> address?


OK. The mail was piped to the wrapper to be posted to the list, so now
it's getting to Mailman.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>, particularly sections 2b,
6b, 7, 8, 9 and 13.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From troy.campbell at fedex.com  Fri Jan 13 16:11:01 2012
From: troy.campbell at fedex.com (Troy Campbell)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 08:11:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman not working...
In-Reply-To: <4F0F9F6D.7070607@msapiro.net>
References: <PC195201201121648540312a655c1ae@MSAPIRO>
	<4F0F9265.5060802@fedex.com> <4F0F9F6D.7070607@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4F104985.7000900@fedex.com>

It appears there was a list that created locks in /var/lock/mailman so I 
deleted this list and recreated it
and life seems to be good again...thanks again man for the excellent 
support!

Troy
This email was created using 100% recycled organic free range electrons.


On 1/12/2012 8:05 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 1/12/2012 6:09 PM, Troy Campbell wrote:
>
>> It seems to be recognizing the email as local now:
>>
>> Jan 12 18:57:27 request1 sendmail[3015]: q0D1vRSU003015:
>> to=troytest at mailman.rmtc.fedex.com, ctladdr=root (0/0), delay=00:00:00,
>> xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=30076, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1],
>> dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as C7FE237878)
>> Jan 12 18:57:28 request1 postfix/local[1069]: C7FE237878:
>> to=<troytest at mailman2.rmtc.fedex.com>, relay=local, delay=0.23,
>> delays=0.07/0/0/0.16, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
>> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post troytest)
>>
>> No email is coming out though?  It should be "expanding" to my email
>> address?
>
> OK. The mail was piped to the wrapper to be posted to the list, so now
> it's getting to Mailman.
>
> See the FAQ at<http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>, particularly sections 2b,
> 6b, 7, 8, 9 and 13.
>

From jrc at clshost.com  Fri Jan 13 19:27:33 2012
From: jrc at clshost.com (J.R. Constance)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 11:27:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Not Sending Admins Notification of Held
	Messages
Message-ID: <3A0B7374-5F1D-444E-978B-DFA1A44C7032@clshost.com>

I have a group of mailman mailing lists (2.1.14-1) running in a cPanel environment (11.30.5 - build 3) where suddenly I am no longer seeing notifications of held messages being sent to the admins. I am also not seeing the daily notifications of held messages that normally were sent out in the mornings. 

This happens with messages sent to moderated lists by subscribers and non-subscribers, and also with messages sent to non-moderated lists by non-subscribers. There is just no notification to admins. On the other hand, messages sent to non-moderated lists by subscribers are sent out to the entire list without a problem. In addition, individuals who send to a moderated list receive an email that their message has been held pending admin approval. So, just the two pieces are not working.

I realize that since the cPanel build is unique you are not able to support it, but am just looking for some help about where to begin looking.

Thanks,

J.R.


J.R. Constance
jrc at clshost.com

"Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll buy a funny hat. Talk to a hungry man about fish, and you're a consultant."

    Scott Adams


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jan 14 00:11:20 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 15:11:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman not working...
In-Reply-To: <4F104985.7000900@fedex.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201201131511200015ed8a0fe3@MSAPIRO>

Troy Campbell wrote:

>It appears there was a list that created locks in /var/lock/mailman so I 
>deleted this list and recreated it
>and life seems to be good again...thanks again man for the excellent 
>support!


I'm glad things are again working well for you, but deleting and
recreating the list was probably overkill. The FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/noA9> gives information about clearing
stale/orphaned locks. I have now added a pointer to this FAQ from
section 7 of the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jan 14 00:38:17 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 15:38:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Not Sending Admins Notification of
	HeldMessages
In-Reply-To: <3A0B7374-5F1D-444E-978B-DFA1A44C7032@clshost.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520120113153817085903abc4ac@MSAPIRO>

J.R. Constance wrote:

>I have a group of mailman mailing lists (2.1.14-1) running in a cPanel environment (11.30.5 - build 3) where suddenly I am no longer seeing notifications of held messages being sent to the admins. I am also not seeing the daily notifications of held messages that normally were sent out in the mornings. 
>
>This happens with messages sent to moderated lists by subscribers and non-subscribers, and also with messages sent to non-moderated lists by non-subscribers. There is just no notification to admins. On the other hand, messages sent to non-moderated lists by subscribers are sent out to the entire list without a problem. In addition, individuals who send to a moderated list receive an email that their message has been held pending admin approval. So, just the two pieces are not working.
>
>I realize that since the cPanel build is unique you are not able to support it, but am just looking for some help about where to begin looking.


The daily notices are sent by Mailman's cron/checkdbs. Is this being
run? If you can, check the systems cron log.

If the user notification of the held message is sent, but the admin
notice is not and the list's admin_immed_notify is Yes, there is
probably some exception being thrown in
Mailman.Handlers.Hold.hold_for_approval() between sending the user
notice and the admin notice. If you can, check Mailman's error log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jan 14 00:55:52 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 15:55:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Not Sending Admins Notification
	ofHeldMessages
In-Reply-To: <PC19520120113153817085903abc4ac@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <PC195201201131555520500e21708a8@MSAPIRO>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>The daily notices are sent by Mailman's cron/checkdbs. Is this being
>run? If you can, check the systems cron log.


Also, if cron/checkdbs is being run by the 'mailman' user's crontab,
any exception thrown by the job is probably mailed by crond to
'mailman' which is (or should be) treated as a post to the 'mailman'
site list which should accept non-member posts and deliver them
appropriately, but may not.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From misterbhatt at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 16:09:40 2012
From: misterbhatt at gmail.com (Amit Bhatt)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 20:39:40 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman issues continued
Message-ID: <DEA4ABB54A724FAABCD7D6A0C78749FF@amit>

Dear all,

I have asked my web service provider to rectify the issues from their end.
They have reset the Mailman script, checked MTA log and so forth done whatever they could at their end but I am still not satisfy with the performance of our mailing list.
Our users are not receiving E-mails properly, mainly issues are faced by Gmail users. new users are not been able to receive any notification after sending new request for the subscription and nor I am receiving any admin notification for the approval of subscription.

I am not that much of technical sound, could someone help me in solving this entire issue?

My mailing list name is SayEverything, which is dedicated to the blind users.
I have done something from my end as well but nothing seems to be effective.
Would be so nice if someone can see the settings of my mailing list if I can provide with the necessary and required information.

Thanks and regards,

Amit Bhatt

new Delhi, India

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jan 15 21:01:05 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:01:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman issues continued
In-Reply-To: <DEA4ABB54A724FAABCD7D6A0C78749FF@amit>
Message-ID: <PC195201201151201050093d32c0aa2@MSAPIRO>

Amit Bhatt wrote:
>
>I have asked my web service provider to rectify the issues from their end.
>They have reset the Mailman script, checked MTA log and so forth done whatever they could at their end but I am still not satisfy with the performance of our mailing list.
>Our users are not receiving E-mails properly, mainly issues are faced by Gmail users. new users are not been able to receive any notification after sending new request for the subscription and nor I am receiving any admin notification for the approval of subscription.


As far as gmail is concerned, see the FAQs at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9> and <http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9>.

In any case, there's little if anything you can do about these things
from your end.

If the list's subscribe_policy is 'Confirm and approve' you won't see
an approval notice until after the user confirms which may explain why
you don't see those.

Only the hosting service has access to the various Mailman and MTA logs
that would help determine whether or not messages are actually being
sent. If messages are not being sent, only the hosting service can
determine why and fix it, although we will try to help if they contact
us.

If messages are being sent and accepted by the recipient's MX servers
but not being delivered to the recipients, the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9> may help. Otherwise, the most effective
approach is for the recipients to complain to their respective ISPs,
at least if they are paying for mail service.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Mon Jan 16 16:13:37 2012
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 10:13:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: About Tokio Kikuchi
Message-ID: <20120116101337.25110084@limelight.wooz.org>

I'm sorry to forward some very sad news about one of our own from the Mailman
community.  If you've ever looked at the ACKNOWLEDGMENTS file you will see
this entry in the core contributors section:

    Tokio Kikuchi, Mailman's weatherman

Tokio Kikuchi was instrumental in our early internationalization efforts.  I
remember testing out one of his early patches which enabled Japanese support
in Mailman.  At a Python conference years ago, I started the branch and was
delighted to see the familiar Mailman admin pages come up in Japanese.  Of
course, I could not read it, but I happened to be sitting next to a native
speaker who confirmed that it was indeed correct Japanese.  That made me very
happy, and I'm proud of his ongoing contributions to Mailman in general and
internationalization in particular.  He will be missed.

If you would like to leave a note of your own, please see this page:

    http://wiki.list.org/display/COM/TokioKikuchi

The following is forwarded with permission.

-Barry

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 14:22:43 +0900
From: Atsuo Ishimoto <ishimoto at gembook.org>
To: barry at python.org
Subject: About Tokio Kikuchi


Hello,

I'm Japanese Python developer. You can see my name as an anuthor of
Python's PEP 3138.

Now, please let me inform you that Mr. Tokio Kikuchi, famous open
source developer and one of Mailman contributor, died at 14, Jan by
cancer.

http://www.kochinews.co.jp/?&nwSrl=284270&nwIW=1&nwVt=knd

Regards,

-- 
Atsuo Ishimoto
Mail: ishimoto at gembook.org
Blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/atsuoishimoto/
Twitter: atsuoishimoto
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From mysql.jorge at decimal.pt  Sun Jan 15 22:33:07 2012
From: mysql.jorge at decimal.pt (Jorge Bastos)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 21:33:07 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New to mailman, some help
Message-ID: <012401ccd3cd$45ccd530$d1667f90$@jorge@decimal.pt>

Howdy people,

 

I'm new to mailman as a system admin, anyway use it for several projects but
as a user.

 

Here's what I've already done:

 

-          I've setup the newlist "mailman"

-          Add to /etc/postfix/transport: "lists.mydomain.pt mailman:"

-          Postmap /etc/postfix/transport

-          Added to main.cf: transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport &
mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1

-          On /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py add: "MTA=Postfix"

-          On /etc/postfix/master.cf added: "mailman   unix  -       n
n       -       -       pipe flags=FR user=list
argv=/var/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.p

y ${nexthop} ${user}"

 

I can subscribe to the any of the new lists I created, but when I try to
post, postfix doesn't access the account/alias, example, did a list named
"bad", but when I try to send email to bad at lists.mydomain.pt it's rejected.

 

On my server, there's an already implementation and running production
config of a DBMail instalation, that read's the domain access and alias like
this:

 

Domains:

mydestination = mysql:/etc/postfix/domains-sql.cf

 

and for accounts:

 

local_recipient_maps            = mysql:/etc/postfix/sql-recipients.cf

 

I've runned the genalias from mailman bin directory, and it created the
data/aliases file, and also added it to postfix alias_maps.

 

Maybe the dbmail config is overriding the rest? Does it has a solution or
its better to use a server with a clean postfix instalation?

 

Thanks in advanced,

Jorge Bastos,


From srb at isr.umich.edu  Mon Jan 16 16:34:24 2012
From: srb at isr.umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 10:34:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anything to look out for in a 2.1.9 to 2.1.14-1
	upgrade?
Message-ID: <CB39ADB0.7827%srb@isr.umich.edu>

Short version:

Are there any gotchas in upgrading from 2.1.9 to 2.1.14-1 that I need to
look out for?  I am, as usual in these cases, looking for the most expedient
way to fix a problem I've brought on myself.

Some more details...

We run the mailman processes on our mail server, a 64-bit Red Hat 5 machine
with python 2.4.3.  We run the web interface on our web server, which until
yesterday was a 32-bit Red Hat 4 machine with python 2.3.4.

Yesterday, we replaced the web server hardware with a 64-bit Red Hat 6
machine, which has python 2.6.6, and the web interface stopped working.
Delivery to lists is working just fine.  In the mailman error log, I see the
following:

Jan 16 09:53:30 2012 admin(13467):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(13467): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]
admin(13467): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(13467): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(13467):   File "/opt/mailman/scripts/driver", line 94, in run_main
admin(13467):     pkg = __import__('Mailman.Cgi', globals(), locals(),
[scriptname])
admin(13467):   File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 27, in
<module>
admin(13467):     from Mailman import MailList
admin(13467):   File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 51, in
<module>
admin(13467):     from Mailman.Archiver import Archiver
admin(13467):   File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/__init__.py", line 17,
in <module>
admin(13467):     from Archiver import *
admin(13467):   File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 32,
in <module>
admin(13467):     from Mailman import Mailbox
admin(13467):   File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 21, in <module>
admin(13467):     import mailbox
admin(13467):   File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/mailbox.py", line 18, in <module>
admin(13467):     import email.message
admin(13467): ImportError: No module named message

I'm trying to figure out if there's an easy way to fix this, that *won't*
break delivery to the lists.  Any hints much appreciated. 


From troy.campbell at fedex.com  Mon Jan 16 17:25:50 2012
From: troy.campbell at fedex.com (Troy Campbell)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:25:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman not working...
In-Reply-To: <PC195201201131511200015ed8a0fe3@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201201131511200015ed8a0fe3@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4F144F8E.6070507@fedex.com>

Thanks again.  Observations: Somehow the stale lock was stopping all 
emails from going out
and secondly, /var/lock/mailman is where the lock was.  I'm not sure how 
I happened to figure
that lock location out as it isn't ~mailman/locks.  Perhaps my config is 
non-standard.

Troy
This email was created using 100% recycled organic free range electrons.


On 1/13/2012 4:11 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Troy Campbell wrote:
>
>> It appears there was a list that created locks in /var/lock/mailman so I
>> deleted this list and recreated it
>> and life seems to be good again...thanks again man for the excellent
>> support!
>
> I'm glad things are again working well for you, but deleting and
> recreating the list was probably overkill. The FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/noA9>  gives information about clearing
> stale/orphaned locks. I have now added a pointer to this FAQ from
> section 7 of the FAQ at<http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 16 18:09:16 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:09:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anything to look out for in a 2.1.9 to
	2.1.14-1upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <CB39ADB0.7827%srb@isr.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1952012011609091601563254be6c@MSAPIRO>

Steve Burling wrote:

>Short version:
>
>Are there any gotchas in upgrading from 2.1.9 to 2.1.14-1 that I need to
>look out for?  I am, as usual in these cases, looking for the most expedient
>way to fix a problem I've brought on myself.


There are no gotcha's in upgrading from 2.1.9 to 2.1.14-1, but there
are gotcha's in upgrading a RedHat rpm installation from a source
distribution.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/KYCB> and the patch in the
mailman-developers post linked from that FAQ.

But, see below.


[...]
>Yesterday, we replaced the web server hardware with a 64-bit Red Hat 6
>machine, which has python 2.6.6, and the web interface stopped working.
>Delivery to lists is working just fine.  In the mailman error log, I see the
>following:
>
>Jan 16 09:53:30 2012 admin(13467):
>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>admin(13467): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]
>admin(13467): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(13467): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(13467):   File "/opt/mailman/scripts/driver", line 94, in run_main
>admin(13467):     pkg = __import__('Mailman.Cgi', globals(), locals(),
>[scriptname])
>admin(13467):   File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 27, in
><module>
>admin(13467):     from Mailman import MailList
>admin(13467):   File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 51, in
><module>
>admin(13467):     from Mailman.Archiver import Archiver
>admin(13467):   File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/__init__.py", line 17,
>in <module>
>admin(13467):     from Archiver import *
>admin(13467):   File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 32,
>in <module>
>admin(13467):     from Mailman import Mailbox
>admin(13467):   File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 21, in <module>
>admin(13467):     import mailbox
>admin(13467):   File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/mailbox.py", line 18, in <module>
>admin(13467):     import email.message
>admin(13467): ImportError: No module named message
>
>I'm trying to figure out if there's an easy way to fix this, that *won't*
>break delivery to the lists.  Any hints much appreciated. 


You can fix this by removing the email directory from
/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib so that Mailman will use the Python 2.6
email package instead of Mailman's which is not compatible, but this
won't fix all the Mailman 2.1.9/Python 2.6.x incompatibilities.

However, I have other questions.

Is RedHat distributing Mailman 2.1.9 with Python 2.6.6? If so, this is
bad, and see <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>. If not, perhaps there is a
RedHat RPM you can use to upgrade.

OTOH, from the paths I see in the traceback above (prefix =
/opt/mailman), it seems your current Mailman may have been installed
from source rather than a RedHat RPM. If this is the case, just
configure Mailman 2.1.14-1 with the same options you used for 2.1.9,
stop mailman, make install and start mailman and you should be OK.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 16 18:12:06 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:12:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman not working...
In-Reply-To: <4F144F8E.6070507@fedex.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952012011609120604063254bf5c@MSAPIRO>

Troy Campbell wrote:

>Thanks again.  Observations: Somehow the stale lock was stopping all 
>emails from going out
>and secondly, /var/lock/mailman is where the lock was.  I'm not sure how 
>I happened to figure
>that lock location out as it isn't ~mailman/locks.  Perhaps my config is 
>non-standard.


Is this a RedHat RPM installation? See <http://wiki.list.org/x/KYCB>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 16 18:23:02 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:23:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New to mailman, some help
In-Reply-To: <012401ccd3cd$45ccd530$d1667f90$@jorge@decimal.pt>
References: <012401ccd3cd$45ccd530$d1667f90$@jorge@decimal.pt>
Message-ID: <4F145CF6.7050903@msapiro.net>

On 1/15/2012 1:33 PM, Jorge Bastos wrote:
> 
> Here's what I've already done:
> 
>  
> 
> -          I've setup the newlist "mailman"
> 
> -          Add to /etc/postfix/transport: "lists.mydomain.pt mailman:"
> 
> -          Postmap /etc/postfix/transport
> 
> -          Added to main.cf: transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport &
> mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1
> 
> -          On /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py add: "MTA=Postfix"
> 
> -          On /etc/postfix/master.cf added: "mailman   unix  -       n
> n       -       -       pipe flags=FR user=list
> argv=/var/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py ${nexthop} ${user}"


So you are using postfix_to_mailman.py. This is incompatible with
Mailman's MTA='Postfix'. If you want to use postfix_to_mailman.py, set
MTA=None in mm_cfg.py. Note MTA='Postfix' with quotes, MTA=None without
quotes.


> I can subscribe to the any of the new lists I created, but when I try to
> post, postfix doesn't access the account/alias, example, did a list named
> "bad", but when I try to send email to bad at lists.mydomain.pt it's rejected.


Why is it rejected? What are the Postfix log entries for this message?
The output from 'postconf -n' may help us.


[...]
> I've runned the genalias from mailman bin directory, and it created the
> data/aliases file, and also added it to postfix alias_maps.


Which is not compatible with postfix_to_mailman.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From srb at isr.umich.edu  Mon Jan 16 19:34:41 2012
From: srb at isr.umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 13:34:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anything to look out for in a 2.1.9 to
 2.1.14-1upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <PC1952012011609091601563254be6c@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CB39D7F1.782F%srb@isr.umich.edu>

On 1/16/12 12:09 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> You can fix this by removing the email directory from
> /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib so that Mailman will use the Python 2.6
> email package instead of Mailman's which is not compatible, but this
> won't fix all the Mailman 2.1.9/Python 2.6.x incompatibilities.

Would doing this also break mail delivery, since the contents of
/usr/lib64/python2.4/email (on the mail delivery machine) look very
different than the contents of /usr/lib64/python2.6/email on the web server?

At this point, the question is academic, though, see below.

> However, I have other questions.
> 
> Is RedHat distributing Mailman 2.1.9 with Python 2.6.6? If so, this is
> bad, and see <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>. If not, perhaps there is a
> RedHat RPM you can use to upgrade.
> 
> OTOH, from the paths I see in the traceback above (prefix =
> /opt/mailman), it seems your current Mailman may have been installed
> from source rather than a RedHat RPM. If this is the case, just
> configure Mailman 2.1.14-1 with the same options you used for 2.1.9,
> stop mailman, make install and start mailman and you should be OK.

This is, indeed, an installation from source. I've been reading the list
long enough that I've never actually used a Red Hat packaged version of
mailman.

Red Hat is delivering mailman 2.1.12-17 with Red Hat 6.

What we think is the most straight-forward fix for this, with the least
likelihood of breaking mail delivery, is to run a limited httpd on the mail
delivery machine as http://lists.our.domain, and add a re-write rule to our
main web server to redirect references to http://www.our.domain/mailman/ to
http://lists.our.domain/mailman/ instead.

Does that seem like a reasonable approach?


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 17 01:14:07 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:14:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anything to look out for in a 2.1.9
	to2.1.14-1upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <CB39D7F1.782F%srb@isr.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1952012011616140706256b02e838@MSAPIRO>

Steve Burling wrote:

>On 1/16/12 12:09 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>> You can fix this by removing the email directory from
>> /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib so that Mailman will use the Python 2.6
>> email package instead of Mailman's which is not compatible, but this
>> won't fix all the Mailman 2.1.9/Python 2.6.x incompatibilities.
>
>Would doing this also break mail delivery, since the contents of
>/usr/lib64/python2.4/email (on the mail delivery machine) look very
>different than the contents of /usr/lib64/python2.6/email on the web server?


No. It should be OK. The email package shipped with Mailman and
installed in Mailman's pythonlib is email 2.5.8. The one in Python
2.6.6 is 4.0.1. The contents shouldn't be that different, just mixed
case names in 2.5.8 vs. all lower case in 4.0.1, and missing Python
2.1 and 2.2 compatibility modules and MIME constructors moved to a sub
directory.

The mixed case names are mapped to the lower case names in the 4.0.1
package, so Mailman works. The incompatibility arose in your case
because Mailman's Mailbox module imports Python's mailbox module and
get's the Python 2.6.6 mailbox which then imports email.message, but
email has already been imported from Mailman's pythonlib and that
email only knows email.Message, not email.message.

In fact, configure and make in recent Mailman will not install email in
pythonlib and will remove it if it's there if Python's email is 2.5.8
or newer.


>At this point, the question is academic, though, see below.
>
>> However, I have other questions.
>> 
>> Is RedHat distributing Mailman 2.1.9 with Python 2.6.6? If so, this is
>> bad, and see <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>. If not, perhaps there is a
>> RedHat RPM you can use to upgrade.
>> 
>> OTOH, from the paths I see in the traceback above (prefix =
>> /opt/mailman), it seems your current Mailman may have been installed
>> from source rather than a RedHat RPM. If this is the case, just
>> configure Mailman 2.1.14-1 with the same options you used for 2.1.9,
>> stop mailman, make install and start mailman and you should be OK.
>
>This is, indeed, an installation from source. I've been reading the list
>long enough that I've never actually used a Red Hat packaged version of
>mailman.


Good.


>Red Hat is delivering mailman 2.1.12-17 with Red Hat 6.
>
>What we think is the most straight-forward fix for this, with the least
>likelihood of breaking mail delivery, is to run a limited httpd on the mail
>delivery machine as http://lists.our.domain, and add a re-write rule to our
>main web server to redirect references to http://www.our.domain/mailman/ to
>http://lists.our.domain/mailman/ instead.
>
>Does that seem like a reasonable approach?


That may or may not be viable. You probably would need to also set

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.our.domain'

in Mailman and run fix_url. Otherwise, the action URLs in forms are
likely to be www.our.domain URLs and the redirect will lose the POST
data from form submissions.

If I were you, I would just upgrade Mailman. There should be no problem
in upgrading a 2.1.9 source install to 2.1.14-1.

I'm guessing here, but if you have Mailman installed on the mail server
and only the web portion running on the web server with the Mailman
files shared via NFS or other file sharing, you could just stop
sharing Mailman's pythonlib and create an empty directory on the web
server. With Python 2.6.6, there is nothing in Mailman's pythonlib
that isn't also in Python.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ml at smtp.fakessh.eu  Tue Jan 17 11:08:31 2012
From: ml at smtp.fakessh.eu (ml)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:08:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to make email list to be properly delivered to
	all users
Message-ID: <26f73334dbc82803c57c9776bf65e9b0@roundcube.fakessh.eu>

hello guys
hello master of Fu


I am new to mailman and I try to configure a personal mailing list. I 
tried to follow the how-to available on the web I have access to my 
mailman web interface but no message is issued and this in turn to and 
from any address even the mailman's administrative address. I do not 
know how to make email list to be properly delivered to all users and I 
do not know how to operate the addresses of the list Admnistration


use postfix dovecot lda and other tools

-- 
  http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xC2626742
  gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-key C2626742

  http://urlshort.eu fakessh @
  http://gplus.to/sshfake
  http://gplus.to/sshswilting
  http://gplus.to/john.swilting

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 18 03:53:54 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 18:53:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to make email list to be properly delivered
	toall users
In-Reply-To: <26f73334dbc82803c57c9776bf65e9b0@roundcube.fakessh.eu>
Message-ID: <PC195201201171853540359e1af6bdd@MSAPIRO>

ml wrote:
>
>I am new to mailman and I try to configure a personal mailing list. I 
>tried to follow the how-to available on the web I have access to my 
>mailman web interface but no message is issued and this in turn to and 
>from any address even the mailman's administrative address. I do not 
>know how to make email list to be properly delivered to all users and I 
>do not know how to operate the addresses of the list Admnistration


See the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9> and
<http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.

See the documentation at <http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Home> and
<http://www.list.org/docs.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Peter.STUMPF at unoosa.org  Tue Jan 17 19:36:45 2012
From: Peter.STUMPF at unoosa.org (Peter STUMPF)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 19:36:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail message to list disappears
Message-ID: <OF65AD0CFC.C9EB3F7A-ONC1257988.0066408E@unvienna.org>

Hi,

 

system info:

*	version of mailman: 2.1.1
*	installed from source
*	Linux version 2.6.26-2-686 (Debian 2.6.26-26lenny1)
*	exim4

 

 

I ran into this problem today, when I sent a message to my mailing list.
The message just disappeared. Normally I get a moderation message and at
least in the pending moderator requests I find the messages, etc. On
this list, there's nothing. No e-mail message, no moderator request, as
if that message would have never been sent at all. 

Interesting about that is, that sending messages to a different mailing
list on the same server does work without problems, including moderator
message and a list of requests in the system.

 

I went to the logs of exim and found the message had been processed
correctly.

In the logs of mailman instead, I couldn't find anything which would
tell me about the existence of the mail message.

 

I restarted mailman, exim and even the complete machine. No effect.

I ran check_perms with the 'f' flag - it changed some permissions, but -
no effect.

I reinitiated the list using withlist - no effect.

 

I'm desperate. Where else could I dig into? 

 

Peter

 

__________________________________________
https://twitter.com/#!/UN_SPIDER <https://twitter.com/#!/UN_SPIDER> 

Peter Stumpf



 

From wolf at NassRasur.com  Tue Jan 17 17:07:44 2012
From: wolf at NassRasur.com (Stefan P. Wolf (NassRasur.com))
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 17:07:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can I use a mailman list address as a (qmail)
	sender address?
Message-ID: <4F159CD0.5010700@NassRasur.com>


scenario:

I run a discussion forum and we have a closed list where
the members are the moderators of the forum. Forum users
can write to all moderators through this list's address.
Let's say the address is mods at myforum.mydomain.com

Now I would like to be able to create also a *real* mail
account with the same address, for SENDING (outgoing mail)
only. Each moderator is then able to send mail though this mail
account so that the sender of their mails is the (anonymous!)
list address mods at myforum.mydomain.com -- incoming mail for
this address should be ignored by our MTA (qmail) so that
mailman correctly takes it.

Is this possible and how must mailman and qmail be set up?
We are using Plesk but we also have root access if Plesk
is not capable of configuring this.

Thanks for any help!


Best regards, Stefan.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Jan 18 18:10:24 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 02:10:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  mail message to list disappears
In-Reply-To: <OF65AD0CFC.C9EB3F7A-ONC1257988.0066408E@unvienna.org>
References: <OF65AD0CFC.C9EB3F7A-ONC1257988.0066408E@unvienna.org>
Message-ID: <87hazt6inz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Peter STUMPF writes:

 > *	version of mailman: 2.1.1

Did you write that correctly?  That's very old.

 > The message just disappeared.

Was it just one message, or is the fault repeatable?

 > I went to the logs of exim and found the message had been processed
 > correctly.
 > 
 > In the logs of mailman instead, I couldn't find anything which would
 > tell me about the existence of the mail message.

Look and see if there's anything in the qfiles/shunt directory
(usually in /var/lib/mailman/, I believe).  While you should normally
get some information in the Mailman logs, I have seen Unicode errors
where the message got shunted and somehow nothing was logged (but only
in versions of Mailman < 2.1.10 or so, so my question about your
version matters).


From harrison at utm.edu  Wed Jan 18 18:03:57 2012
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:03:57 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] identifying moderator that approved a post
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B764044@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>

Is there any way to identify which moderator approved a post.
I've looked thru the /logs files and didn't see anything.

Bruce Harrison
UT Martin

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Wed Jan 18 18:07:00 2012
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 19:07:00 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail message to list disappears
In-Reply-To: <OF65AD0CFC.C9EB3F7A-ONC1257988.0066408E@unvienna.org>
References: <OF65AD0CFC.C9EB3F7A-ONC1257988.0066408E@unvienna.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201181906250.28675@data.home>

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012, Peter STUMPF wrote:

> *	version of mailman: 2.1.1

Are you sure?  This version is *ancient*.

Geoff.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Jan 18 18:38:35 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 02:38:35 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can I use a mailman list address as a
	(qmail)	sender address?
In-Reply-To: <4F159CD0.5010700@NassRasur.com>
References: <4F159CD0.5010700@NassRasur.com>
Message-ID: <87fwfc7vxg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Stefan P. Wolf (NassRasur.com) writes:

 > Now I would like to be able to create also a *real* mail
 > account with the same address, for SENDING (outgoing mail)
 > only.

I think all you need to do is create the mailing list as usual, and
then create the system user with the same name.  The mailing list's
explicit alias should take precedence.



From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Jan 18 18:42:24 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 02:42:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  identifying moderator that approved a post
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B764044@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B764044@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <87ehuw7vr3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Bruce Harrison writes:

 > Is there any way to identify which moderator approved a post.
 > I've looked thru the /logs files and didn't see anything.

Assuming it was done via the web interface, you could get the
timestamp from the Mailman logs, then go to the webserver log and find
out who accessed the admindb page at the same time.

There is no way for Mailman 2 to identify an individual moderator;
moderators are identified by possession of the moderation password,
nothing else.  I believe this will change in Mailman 3.


From harrison at utm.edu  Wed Jan 18 18:42:52 2012
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:42:52 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] identifying moderator that approved a post
In-Reply-To: <20120118174111.GI4423@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B764044@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
	<20120118174111.GI4423@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B76533C@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>

I don't think the headers show who the moderator would be.  Web-server logs sound like a possibility.
Anyone done this?

Bruce
UTM

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam McGreggor [mailto:adam at hendricks.amyl.org.uk] On Behalf Of Adam McGreggor
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:41 AM
To: Bruce Harrison
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] identifying moderator that approved a post

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 05:03:57PM +0000, Bruce Harrison wrote:
> Is there any way to identify which moderator approved a post.
> I've looked thru the /logs files and didn't see anything.

Check your web-server logs for the IP address, and work from there? 

Or if by email, look at headers?

--
"Ink is handicapped, in a way, because you can blow up a man with gunpowder in  half a second, while it may take twenty years to blow him up with a book. But  the gunpowder destroys itself along with its victim, while a book can keep on  exploding for centuries."
    -- Christopher Morley

From harrison at utm.edu  Wed Jan 18 18:47:43 2012
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:47:43 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] identifying moderator that approved a post
In-Reply-To: <87ehuw7vr3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B764044@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
	<87ehuw7vr3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B76539B@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>

Glad to hear it's changing.  We have several lists on campus with 20+ moderators.  Some will approve anything without paying attention at all....  :)
Was just poking around in the access_log, looks like that may do it.

Thanks!

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:42 AM
To: Bruce Harrison
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] identifying moderator that approved a post

Bruce Harrison writes:

 > Is there any way to identify which moderator approved a post.
 > I've looked thru the /logs files and didn't see anything.

Assuming it was done via the web interface, you could get the timestamp from the Mailman logs, then go to the webserver log and find out who accessed the admindb page at the same time.

There is no way for Mailman 2 to identify an individual moderator; moderators are identified by possession of the moderation password, nothing else.  I believe this will change in Mailman 3.


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Wed Jan 18 18:41:11 2012
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:41:11 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] identifying moderator that approved a post
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B764044@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B764044@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <20120118174111.GI4423@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 05:03:57PM +0000, Bruce Harrison wrote:
> Is there any way to identify which moderator approved a post.
> I've looked thru the /logs files and didn't see anything.

Check your web-server logs for the IP address, and work from there? 

Or if by email, look at headers?

-- 
"Ink is handicapped, in a way, because you can blow up a man with gunpowder in
 half a second, while it may take twenty years to blow him up with a book. But
 the gunpowder destroys itself along with its victim, while a book can keep on
 exploding for centuries."
    -- Christopher Morley

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Wed Jan 18 18:58:40 2012
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:58:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] identifying moderator that approved a post
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B76533C@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B764044@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
	<20120118174111.GI4423@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B76533C@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <20120118175840.GF967@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 05:42:52PM +0000, Bruce Harrison wrote:
> I don't think the headers show who the moderator would be.  

Message-ID, perhaps?

-- 
"In matters of grave importance, style, not sincerity, is the vital
thing"
    -- The Importance of Being Earnest

From harrison at utm.edu  Wed Jan 18 19:09:15 2012
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 18:09:15 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] identifying moderator that approved a post
In-Reply-To: <20120118175840.GF967@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B764044@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
	<20120118174111.GI4423@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B76533C@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
	<20120118175840.GF967@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B7655C5@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>

The idea of matching web log entries (access_log) with timestamp works fine.  Also noticed that the email address of the approved message is also in the log, which makes it much easier.  Entry from access_log was:

10.x.x.x - - [17/Jan/2012:17:35:52 -0600] "GET /mailman/admindb/information?sender=zzzzzzzz%40utm.edu HTTP/1.1" 200 7069
10.x.x.x - - [17/Jan/2012:17:35:58 -0600] "POST /mailman/admindb/information HTTP/1.1" 200 6655

>From the vette log:

Jan 16 07:08:40 2012 (1213) Information post from zzzzzzzzzz at utm.edu held, message-id=<41CFEEECACD0FA4D9308D660FC54311A1F4A43D0 at EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>: Post to moderated list

Jan 17 17:35:58 2012 (18899) held message approved, message-id: <41CFEEECACD0FA4D9308D660FC54311A1F4A43D0 at EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>


Corresponds nicely with the timestamp of the email received from that list.  About a 6 minute delay, but the list has 1200+ people on it...
Our weblogs were in /usr/local/apache2/logs

Bruce
UTM

----Original Message-----
From: Adam McGreggor [mailto:adam at hendricks.amyl.org.uk] On Behalf Of Adam McGreggor
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:59 AM
To: Bruce Harrison
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] identifying moderator that approved a post

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 05:42:52PM +0000, Bruce Harrison wrote:
> I don't think the headers show who the moderator would be.  

Message-ID, perhaps?

--
"In matters of grave importance, style, not sincerity, is the vital thing"
    -- The Importance of Being Earnest

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 18 19:44:55 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 10:44:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] identifying moderator that approved a post
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B7655C5@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1952012011810445508128f0adc63@MSAPIRO>

Bruce Harrison wrote:

>The idea of matching web log entries (access_log) with timestamp works fine.  Also noticed that the email address of the approved message is also in the log, which makes it much easier.  Entry from access_log was:
>
>10.x.x.x - - [17/Jan/2012:17:35:52 -0600] "GET /mailman/admindb/information?sender=zzzzzzzz%40utm.edu HTTP/1.1" 200 7069
>10.x.x.x - - [17/Jan/2012:17:35:58 -0600] "POST /mailman/admindb/information HTTP/1.1" 200 6655


The ?sender=zzzzzzzz%40utm.edu fragment won't always be there. It is
there this time because the moderator followed the link to view all
messages from zzzzzzzz at utm.edu before approving the message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Peter.STUMPF at unoosa.org  Wed Jan 18 19:47:43 2012
From: Peter.STUMPF at unoosa.org (Peter STUMPF)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 19:47:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  mail message to list disappears
In-Reply-To: <87hazt6inz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <87hazt6inz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>,
	<OF65AD0CFC.C9EB3F7A-ONC1257988.0066408E@unvienna.org>
Message-ID: <OF48D86AD8.51F56072-ONC1257989.00673F24-C1257989.00673F33@unvienna.org>

Hi,
thanks for the reply!
Looks like I missed a '1'. I'm actually using 2.1.11

The fault was repeatable - I had sent many messages to the address, but always had the same problem.

I've checked the whole qfiles folder - besides the 'bad' subfolder, everything is empty, so there's nothing in the 'shunt' folder.
The file in the 'bad' is rather old and I know that the mailing list was working at that time.

Peter
__________________________________________
https://twitter.com/#!/UN_SPIDER

Peter Stumpf


-----"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote: -----
To: Peter STUMPF/VIENNA/UNO at UNOV
From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>
Date: 01/18/2012 06:13PM
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail message to list disappears

Peter STUMPF writes:

?> *	version of mailman: 2.1.1

Did you write that correctly? ?That's very old.

?> The message just disappeared.

Was it just one message, or is the fault repeatable?

?> I went to the logs of exim and found the message had been processed
?> correctly.
?> 
?> In the logs of mailman instead, I couldn't find anything which would
?> tell me about the existence of the mail message.

Look and see if there's anything in the qfiles/shunt directory
(usually in /var/lib/mailman/, I believe). ?While you should normally
get some information in the Mailman logs, I have seen Unicode errors
where the message got shunted and somehow nothing was logged (but only
in versions of Mailman < 2.1.10 or so, so my question about your
version matters).



From harrison at utm.edu  Wed Jan 18 19:48:10 2012
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 18:48:10 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] identifying moderator that approved a post
In-Reply-To: <PC1952012011810445508128f0adc63@MSAPIRO>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B7655C5@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
	<PC1952012011810445508128f0adc63@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B27B76591F@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>

Ah...  thanks for the heads-up!
In our case, the IP and time can lead me to the computer as well.

Thanks!

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 12:45 PM
To: Bruce Harrison; mailman-users at python.org
Cc: Terry Lewis
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] identifying moderator that approved a post

Bruce Harrison wrote:

>The idea of matching web log entries (access_log) with timestamp works fine.  Also noticed that the email address of the approved message is also in the log, which makes it much easier.  Entry from access_log was:
>
>10.x.x.x - - [17/Jan/2012:17:35:52 -0600] "GET 
>/mailman/admindb/information?sender=zzzzzzzz%40utm.edu HTTP/1.1" 200 
>7069 10.x.x.x - - [17/Jan/2012:17:35:58 -0600] "POST 
>/mailman/admindb/information HTTP/1.1" 200 6655


The ?sender=zzzzzzzz%40utm.edu fragment won't always be there. It is there this time because the moderator followed the link to view all messages from zzzzzzzz at utm.edu before approving the message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From harrison.aw at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 19:54:02 2012
From: harrison.aw at gmail.com (Anthony Harrison)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 12:54:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Version Error with Migrated Lists?
Message-ID: <CAHmzCjaYJ69EsbbDQac0bvgC5+k0+1gUMkPp63Gi+XrkeVGcPA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm attempting to migrate a number of lists from Mailman 2.1.11 on a box
running Ubuntu 8.04.3 to Mailman 2.1.14 running on a box with Red Hat
Enterprise Linux Server release 6.2. I've installed Mailman on the Red Hat
box according to the installation guide and have successfully created a
working mailing list under it. I've added a few people to it and confirmed
that it can send and receive messages.

With a working version of mailman on Red Hat, I copied over the lists,
data, and archive directory as per the migration guides. I updated the file
permissions via check_perms -f and then ran genaliases.

Whenever I attempt to run fix_url on any of the lists, however, I receive
the following error:

Importing fix_url...
Running fix_url.fix_url()...
Loading list itsac-test (locked)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./withlist", line 299, in <module>
    main()
  File "./withlist", line 277, in main
    r = do_list(listname, args, func)
  File "./withlist", line 195, in do_list
    m = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=LOCK)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
    self.Lock()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 165, in Lock
    self.Load()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 676, in Load
    self.CheckVersion(dict)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 729, in CheckVersion
    Update(self, stored_state)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py", line 54, in Update
    UpdateOldVars(l, stored_state)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py", line 190, in UpdateOldVars
    for addr in l.posters:
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: posters

This seems to be related to an incorrect version number, but I have no idea
how to remedy this. Have I missed some crucial step in the migration?

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 18 20:12:29 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:12:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail message to list disappears
In-Reply-To: <OF48D86AD8.51F56072-ONC1257989.00673F24-C1257989.00673F33@unvienna.org>
References: <87hazt6inz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>,
	<OF65AD0CFC.C9EB3F7A-ONC1257988.0066408E@unvienna.org>
	<OF48D86AD8.51F56072-ONC1257989.00673F24-C1257989.00673F33@unvienna.org>
Message-ID: <4F17199D.1060509@msapiro.net>

On 1/18/2012 10:47 AM, Peter STUMPF wrote:
> 
> I've checked the whole qfiles folder - besides the 'bad' subfolder, everything is empty, so there's nothing in the 'shunt' folder.
> The file in the 'bad' is rather old and I know that the mailing list was working at that time.


Files in qfiles/bad are unparseable message entries or they are messages
that had no content after content filtering if filter_action = Preserve.
If it was an unparseable message, there would have been a corresponding
'error' log entry with the same time stamp as the qfiles/bad/ file.

If exim properly delivered the message via the 'mailman' transport, it
would have been queued in qfiles/in. From that point, whatever happened
to it was done by Mailman. Since the message is no longer queued in
Mailman, there should be an entry in one or more of Mailman's logs. Are
there any entries in any of Mailman's logs from the time of the post?

Does the list have archives, and if so, is the message archived?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 18 20:40:26 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:40:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Version Error with Migrated Lists?
In-Reply-To: <CAHmzCjaYJ69EsbbDQac0bvgC5+k0+1gUMkPp63Gi+XrkeVGcPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952012011811402600006f6b24da@MSAPIRO>

Anthony Harrison wrote:
>
>Whenever I attempt to run fix_url on any of the lists, however, I receive
>the following error:
>
>Importing fix_url...
>Running fix_url.fix_url()...
>Loading list itsac-test (locked)
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./withlist", line 299, in <module>
>    main()
>  File "./withlist", line 277, in main
>    r = do_list(listname, args, func)
>  File "./withlist", line 195, in do_list
>    m = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=LOCK)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
>    self.Lock()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 165, in Lock
>    self.Load()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 676, in Load
>    self.CheckVersion(dict)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 729, in CheckVersion
>    Update(self, stored_state)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py", line 54, in Update
>    UpdateOldVars(l, stored_state)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py", line 190, in UpdateOldVars
>    for addr in l.posters:
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__
>    raise AttributeError, name
>AttributeError: posters
>
>This seems to be related to an incorrect version number, but I have no idea
>how to remedy this. Have I missed some crucial step in the migration?


There is an inconsistency in your old list objects in the
lists/LISTNAME/config.pck files.

The section of code throwing the AttributeError on 'posters' is trying
to convert Mailman 2.0.x moderation settings to Mailman 2.1.x
equivalents. It should only be executed if the list has a 'moderated'
attribute which no Mailman 2.1.x list should have.

Do

bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck

on one of these lists. Look for an attribute 'moderate' and any with
'posters' in the name. What is the moderate attribute? What is the
data_version attribute?

If you need help, you can edit that output to remove all the actual
email addresses and passwords and post that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Peter.STUMPF at unoosa.org  Wed Jan 18 22:07:39 2012
From: Peter.STUMPF at unoosa.org (Peter STUMPF)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:07:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail message to list disappears
In-Reply-To: <4F17199D.1060509@msapiro.net>
References: <4F17199D.1060509@msapiro.net>,
	<87hazt6inz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>,
	<OF65AD0CFC.C9EB3F7A-ONC1257988.0066408E@unvienna.org>
	<OF48D86AD8.51F56072-ONC1257989.00673F24-C1257989.00673F33@unvienna.org>
Message-ID: <OF2DA63209.B2CD318D-ONC1257989.00740EA1-C1257989.00740EB0@unvienna.org>


I've sent again a message to be able to trace the actions on the server. The only file which got touched was the config.pck, the config.pck.last and the request.pck. Everything else didn't receive an updated timestamp. the 'in', 'out' and 'virgin' do have the date of today, but the time is set to '8:00'.

The list does have an archive, which used to work fine - but none of the messages I had sent since I'm experiencing the problems found its way to the archive.

Thanks for your kind support!

__________________________________________
https://twitter.com/#!/UN_SPIDER

Peter Stumpf


-----Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote: -----
To: Peter STUMPF/VIENNA/UNO at UNOV
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Date: 01/18/2012 08:12PM
Cc: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>, mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mail message to list disappears

On 1/18/2012 10:47 AM, Peter STUMPF wrote:
> 
> I've checked the whole qfiles folder - besides the 'bad' subfolder, everything is empty, so there's nothing in the 'shunt' folder.
> The file in the 'bad' is rather old and I know that the mailing list was working at that time.


Files in qfiles/bad are unparseable message entries or they are messages
that had no content after content filtering if filter_action = Preserve.
If it was an unparseable message, there would have been a corresponding
'error' log entry with the same time stamp as the qfiles/bad/ file.

If exim properly delivered the message via the 'mailman' transport, it
would have been queued in qfiles/in. From that point, whatever happened
to it was done by Mailman. Since the message is no longer queued in
Mailman, there should be an entry in one or more of Mailman's logs. Are
there any entries in any of Mailman's logs from the time of the post?

Does the list have archives, and if so, is the message archived?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 18 23:22:49 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:22:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail message to list disappears
In-Reply-To: <OF2DA63209.B2CD318D-ONC1257989.00740EA1-C1257989.00740EB0@unvienna.org>
References: <4F17199D.1060509@msapiro.net>,
	<87hazt6inz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>,
	<OF65AD0CFC.C9EB3F7A-ONC1257988.0066408E@unvienna.org>
	<OF48D86AD8.51F56072-ONC1257989.00673F24-C1257989.00673F33@unvienna.org>
	<OF2DA63209.B2CD318D-ONC1257989.00740EA1-C1257989.00740EB0@unvienna.org>
Message-ID: <4F174639.1030404@msapiro.net>

On 1/18/2012 1:07 PM, Peter STUMPF wrote:
> 
> I've sent again a message to be able to trace the actions on the
> server. The only file which got touched was the config.pck, the
> config.pck.last and the request.pck. Everything else didn't receive
> an updated timestamp. the 'in', 'out' and 'virgin' do have the date
> of today, but the time is set to '8:00'.


That's strange. The time stamps of 8:00 on in, out and virgin queue
directories are probably from one or more "n moderator requests"
messages sent by cron/checkdbs at that time. Ihis would indicate the
message never reached the in queue. The updates to config.pck,
config.pck.last and request.pck may have occurred because of an admindb
web visit.

What exactly is in the exim log for messages to this list? is the
message routed and transported by the 'mailman' router and transport?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Peter.STUMPF at unoosa.org  Thu Jan 19 09:48:00 2012
From: Peter.STUMPF at unoosa.org (Peter STUMPF)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:48:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail message to list disappears
In-Reply-To: <4F174639.1030404@msapiro.net>
References: <4F17199D.1060509@msapiro.net>,
	<87hazt6inz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>,
	<OF65AD0CFC.C9EB3F7A-ONC1257988.0066408E@unvienna.org>
	<OF48D86AD8.51F56072-ONC1257989.00673F24-C1257989.00673F33@unvienna.org>
	<OF2DA63209.B2CD318D-ONC1257989.00740EA1-C1257989.00740EB0@unvienna.org>
	<4F174639.1030404@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <OF54C0E250.5107BE08-ONC125798A.002D8CCE-C125798A.003054C7@unvienna.org>

I compared the logs of exim for a message to the mailing list that doesn't 
work with a message to the list that does work. 

And... bam! There it was - I have a user on my system who has the exact 
same name as the mailing list is called. Thanks for pointing me back to 
the exim logs!
That's what exim put  into the logs:

2012-01-19 09:26:04 1RnnJr-0007B3-Sk => somename <somename at someserver.org> 
R=local_user T=mail_spool       <= not working
2012-01-19 09:29:23 1RnnN5-0007Ba-LE => test <test at someserver.org> 
R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport            <= working

It clearly shows, that there is a user on my system which has exactly the 
same name as the mailing list (d'oh!) 
So exim transports the mail message to the user and not to mailman. I just 
logged in as as that user and found all the messages I had sent earlier, 
in his inbox. 
That's totally logical! I should've thought of this before and read the 
logs more carefully. It's stated there 'R=local_user T=mail_spool'. 
So the system works like a charm, only the guy administering it 
doesn't....

Thanks again!

Peter
__________________________________________
http://twitter.com/UN_SPIDER

Peter Stumpf





From:   Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
To:     Peter STUMPF/VIENNA/UNO at UNOV
Cc:     mailman-users at python.org, "Stephen J. Turnbull" 
<stephen at xemacs.org>
Date:   18/01/2012 11:22 PM
Subject:        Re: [Mailman-Users]  mail message to list disappears



On 1/18/2012 1:07 PM, Peter STUMPF wrote:
> 
> I've sent again a message to be able to trace the actions on the
> server. The only file which got touched was the config.pck, the
> config.pck.last and the request.pck. Everything else didn't receive
> an updated timestamp. the 'in', 'out' and 'virgin' do have the date
> of today, but the time is set to '8:00'.


That's strange. The time stamps of 8:00 on in, out and virgin queue
directories are probably from one or more "n moderator requests"
messages sent by cron/checkdbs at that time. Ihis would indicate the
message never reached the in queue. The updates to config.pck,
config.pck.last and request.pck may have occurred because of an admindb
web visit.

What exactly is in the exim log for messages to this list? is the
message routed and transported by the 'mailman' router and transport?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From harrison.aw at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 17:42:54 2012
From: harrison.aw at gmail.com (Anthony Harrison)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 10:42:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Version Error with Migrated Lists?
In-Reply-To: <PC1952012011811402600006f6b24da@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAHmzCjaYJ69EsbbDQac0bvgC5+k0+1gUMkPp63Gi+XrkeVGcPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952012011811402600006f6b24da@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAHmzCjabmdYmi782x+EzmN8VM3SrUgrFh2wxOaMNFbTJPnsfZA@mail.gmail.com>

>Anthony Harrison wrote:
>>
>>Whenever I attempt to run fix_url on any of the lists, however, I receive
>>the following error:
>>
>>Importing fix_url...
>>Running fix_url.fix_url()...
>>Loading list itsac-test (locked)
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "./withlist", line 299, in <module>
>>    main()
>>  File "./withlist", line 277, in main
>>    r = do_list(listname, args, func)
>>  File "./withlist", line 195, in do_list
>>    m = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=LOCK)
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
>>    self.Lock()
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 165, in Lock
>>    self.Load()
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 676, in Load
>>    self.CheckVersion(dict)
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 729, in CheckVersion
>>    Update(self, stored_state)
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py", line 54, in Update
>>    UpdateOldVars(l, stored_state)
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py", line 190, in
UpdateOldVars
>>    for addr in l.posters:
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__
>>    raise AttributeError, name
>>AttributeError: posters
>>
>>This seems to be related to an incorrect version number, but I have no
idea
>>how to remedy this. Have I missed some crucial step in the migration?
>
>
>There is an inconsistency in your old list objects in the
>lists/LISTNAME/config.pck files.
>
>The section of code throwing the AttributeError on 'posters' is trying
>to convert Mailman 2.0.x moderation settings to Mailman 2.1.x
>equivalents. It should only be executed if the list has a 'moderated'
>attribute which no Mailman 2.1.x list should have.
>
>Do
>
>bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck
>
>on one of these lists. Look for an attribute 'moderate' and any with
>'posters' in the name. What is the moderate attribute? What is the
>data_version attribute?

>If you need help, you can edit that output to remove all the actual
>email addresses and passwords and post that.

There is no 'posters' attribute and the 'moderated' attribute is set to
zero. The 'data_version' is 97.

Below is the dump (sans identifying information):

[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
{   'accept_these_nonmembers': [],
    'acceptable_aliases': '\n',
    'admin_immed_notify': True,
    'admin_member_chunksize': 30,
    'admin_notify_mchanges': False,
    'admin_responses': {   },
    'administrivia': True,
    'advertised': 1,
    'anonymous_list': False,
    'archive': 1,
    'archive_private': 1,
    'archive_volume_frequency': 4,
    'autorespond_admin': 0,
    'autorespond_postings': 0,
    'autorespond_requests': 0,
    'autoresponse_admin_text': '',
    'autoresponse_graceperiod': 90,
    'autoresponse_postings_text': '',
    'autoresponse_request_text': '',
    'available_languages': ['en'],
    'ban_list': [],
    'bounce_info': {   },
    'bounce_info_stale_after': 604800,
    'bounce_matching_headers': <removed>
    'bounce_notify_owner_on_disable': True,
    'bounce_notify_owner_on_removal': True,
    'bounce_processing': True,
    'bounce_score_threshold': 5.0,
    'bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner': True,
    'bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings': 3,
    'bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval': 604800,
    'collapse_alternatives': True,
    'convert_html_to_plaintext': True,
    'created_at': 1311704628.8008659,
    'data_version': 97,
    'default_member_moderation': False,
    'delivery_status': {   },
    'description': '',
    'digest_footer':
'_______________________________________________\r\n%(real_name)s mailing
list\r\n%(real_name)s@
%(host_name)s\r\n%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s\r\n',
    'digest_header': '',
    'digest_is_default': False,
    'digest_last_sent_at': 1323799203.0095229,
    'digest_members': { <removed>  },
    'digest_send_periodic': True,
    'digest_size_threshhold': 30,
    'digest_volume_frequency': 1,
    'digestable': True,
    'discard_these_nonmembers': [],
    'emergency': 0,
    'encode_ascii_prefixes': 0,
    'filter_action': 0,
    'filter_content': False,
    'filter_filename_extensions': [   'exe',
                                      'bat',
                                      'cmd',
                                      'com',
                                      'pif',
                                      'scr',
                                      'vbs',
                                      'cpl'],
    'filter_mime_types': [],
    'first_strip_reply_to': 0,
    'forward_auto_discards': True,
    'gateway_to_mail': 0,
    'gateway_to_news': 0,
    'generic_nonmember_action': 1,
    'goodbye_msg': '',
    'header_filter_rules': [],
    'hold_and_cmd_autoresponses': {   },
    'hold_these_nonmembers': [],
    'host_name': <removed>,
    'include_list_post_header': 1,
    'include_rfc2369_headers': 1,
    'info': '',
    'language': <removed>
    'last_post_time': 1323715708.7543659,
    'linked_newsgroup': '',
    'max_days_to_hold': 0,
    'max_message_size': 0,
    'max_num_recipients': 20,
    'member_moderation_action': 0,
    'member_moderation_notice': '',
    'member_posting_only': 1,
    'members': <removed>
    'mime_is_default_digest': 1,
    'mod_password': None,
    'moderated': 0,
    'moderator': [],
    'msg_footer':
'_______________________________________________\n%(real_name)s mailing
list\n%(real_name)s@
%(host_name)s\n%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s\n',
    'msg_header': '',
    'new_member_options': 256,
    'news_moderation': 0,
    'news_prefix_subject_too': 1,
    'next_digest_number': 2,
    'next_post_number': 1,
    'next_request_id': 7,
    'nntp_host': '',
    'nondigestable': True,
    'nonmember_rejection_notice': '',
    'obscure_addresses': True,
    'one_last_digest': {   },
    'owner': <removed>
    'pass_filename_extensions': [],
    'pass_mime_types': [   'multipart/mixed',
                           'multipart/alternative',
                           'text/plain'],
    'password': <removed>
    'passwords': <removed>
    'personalize': 0,
    'post_id': 10.0,
    'postings_responses': {   },
    'preferred_language': 'en',
    'private_roster': 1,
    'real_name': <removed>
    'regular_exclude_lists': [],
    'regular_include_lists': [],
    'reject_these_nonmembers': [],
    'reply_goes_to_list': 0,
    'reply_to_address': '',
    'request_responses': {   },
    'require_explicit_destination': True,
    'respond_to_post_requests': 1,
    'scrub_nondigest': False,
    'send_goodbye_msg': False,
    'send_reminders': 0,
    'send_welcome_msg': 0,
    'subject_prefix': <removed>
    'subscribe_policy': 3,
    'topics': [],
    'topics_bodylines_limit': 5,
    'topics_enabled': 0,
    'topics_userinterest': {   },
    'umbrella_list': False,
    'umbrella_member_suffix': '-owner',
    'unsubscribe_policy': 0,
    'user_options': <removed>
    'usernames': <removed>
    'volume': 3,
    'web_page_url': <removed>
    'welcome_msg': ''}
[----- end pickle file -----]

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 19 20:24:18 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:24:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Version Error with Migrated Lists?
In-Reply-To: <CAHmzCjabmdYmi782x+EzmN8VM3SrUgrFh2wxOaMNFbTJPnsfZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952012011911241800936f1ce62f@MSAPIRO>

Anthony Harrison wrote:
>
>Below is the dump (sans identifying information):
>
>[----- start pickle file -----]
><----- start object 1 ----->
[...]
>    'data_version': 97,

This is correct for Mailman 2.1.10 through 2.1.13


[...]
>    'member_posting_only': 1,

Should not be there.


[...]
>    'moderated': 0,

Should not be there.


[...]
>    'user_options': <removed>
>    'usernames': <removed>


Possibly you invertently removed it, but there should be

    'useropts_version': 1,

If not, it isn't critical; it will just make versions.py do a bit of
extra work that should have no negative consequence, after which that
attribute will be set.


The problem is that the two attrubutes 'moderated' and
'member_posting_only' are Mailman 2.0 attributes that should not be in
Mailman 2.1 lists. If this was originally a Mailman 2.0 list, these
attributes should have been removed by versions.py when the list data
was upgraded to data_version 97. I have no idea or guess as to why
these attributes exist in these lists.

The fix for this problem is tricky. I have a withlist script to fix it,
but we can't use a withlist script without other measures because we
can't instantiate the list because of the data problem.

There are two 'easy' approaches to this. One is to run the withlist
script on the old server and then recopy the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck
files to the new server.

The other approach is to make sure Mailman is not running on the new
server and that no one is accessing the moved lists via the web. Then
add

DATA_FILE_VERSION = 97

to mm_cfg.py and run the withlist script and finally remove
DATA_FILE_VERSION = 97 from mm_cfg.py.

Here's the script to save in Mailman's bin/ directory with name
del_old.py

------------------------------------------------Cut
def del_old(mlist):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    changed = False
    if hasattr(mlist, 'moderated'):
        del mlist.moderated
        changed = True
    if hasattr(mlist, 'posters'):
        del mlist.posters
        changed = True
    if hasattr(mlist, 'member_posting_only'):
        del mlist.member_posting_only
        changed = True
    if hasattr(mlist, 'forbidden_posters'):
        del mlist.forbidden_posters
        changed = True
    if changed:
        mlist.Save()
        print 'list %s updated.' % mlist.real_name
    mlist.Unlock()
------------------------------------------------Cut

Then run

bin/withlist -a -r del_old

to fix the lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anilj at me.com  Fri Jan 20 04:28:08 2012
From: anilj at me.com (Anil Jangity)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 19:28:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] slow "out" queue
Message-ID: <E230A996-2996-4E6C-B305-F0250462CFF1@me.com>

We just moved a very old mailman infrastructure mailman to Solaris and sendmail.
It seems, when a message is posted, the "out" directory doesn't seem to clear out fast enough. 

   1K   archive
   1K   bounces
   1K   commands
   1K   in
   1K   news
 403K   out
   1K   retry
   1K   shunt
   1K   virgin

The size just stays like that forever and slowly decrements. When I look in /var/log/syslog (mail log of sendmail), I see deliveries going through.
I do a 'truss' of the OutgoingRunner python process and I see:

% truss -p 11997
recv(10, 0x00748454, 8192, 0)   (sleeping...)
...
% 


What is it waiting for?

From gmayes at uoregon.edu  Thu Jan 19 19:32:29 2012
From: gmayes at uoregon.edu (Geoff Mayes)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:32:29 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead of
 Sympa (from Majordomo)
Message-ID: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713351@ad-cc-mbx01>

Hello Mailman gurus,

I hope a general question about Mailman's features and future direction (along with some Sympa comparisons) are appropriate for this list.

The University of Oregon is migrating away from Majordomo.  We decided on Sympa because Mailman sends passwords over email while Sympa provides centralized (e.g. Shibboleth, LDAP, etc) authentication.  If Mailman provided a way around the passwords in the clear issue, I'm pretty sure we'd go with Mailman because:
- Mailman is more thoroughly used and thus tested (one stat that gets at this is Alexa Traffic Rank: 165,692 vs 749,729 for Sympa)
- Mailman is more mature (the max bug ID for mailman in its issue-tracking system is ~913,400; the max bug ID for Sympa is 8,117 and there is still no bug category for Sympa's latest version -- 6.1.7 -- even though it has been out for over 4 months)
- Mailman has greater branch stability and code reliability (I noticed that Barry ran a pre-checkin acceptance suite for the Postgres patch for Mailman 3 before he checked it in)
- Mailman has a bright and well-documented future (Mailman 3 and its bug tracker, source code, milestones, etc)
- Mailman has a more active and supportive community, which is very important in resolving future issues (Mailman had 150 list postings in December and through mid-January while Sympa had 44; I've been impressed with Mark Sapiro's responsiveness on this list)

Does anyone know a way around the emailed passwords issue in Mailman, clever hacks, certain plugins, or a timeline for Mailman 3's release?  I've written a number of Django apps using my own LDAP module, so I was also wondering if folks think now is a mature-enough time to perhaps grab Mailman 3, its Django front-end, and hack together what I'm after?  A final, random question: Mailman 3 is still in alpha, but is it stable given that it's almost been in alpha for 4 years?

Many, many thinks for any help, pointers, or information,

Geoff Mayes

From sascha at rissel.it  Fri Jan 20 09:04:11 2012
From: sascha at rissel.it (Sascha Rissel)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:04:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] E-Mail Interface Documentation
Message-ID: <CAKGvnEDSN1cTunEgPxoEW7buWf-TU71Dyt89DfeV9vP=6Cso=w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello there,

is there a documentation of the email interface available somewhere?
I found: http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node10.html
but that page seems to be offline.

Regards,
Sascha.

From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Fri Jan 20 10:05:20 2012
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman Admin)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 10:05:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead of
 Sympa (from Majordomo)
In-Reply-To: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713351@ad-cc-mbx01>
References: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713351@ad-cc-mbx01>
Message-ID: <4F192E50.1080408@uni-konstanz.de>

On 2012-01-19 19:32, Geoff Mayes wrote:
> 
> I hope a general question about Mailman's features and future
> direction (along with some Sympa comparisons) are appropriate for
> this list.
> 
> The University of Oregon is migrating away from Majordomo.  We
> decided on Sympa because Mailman sends passwords over email
<... >
> Does anyone know a way around the emailed passwords issue in Mailman,
> clever hacks, certain plugins, or a timeline for Mailman 3's release?
> 
You can stop the cronjob used to email reminders.
With this you don't email them to the users, but they will still be
saved in clear text in Mailman.

> I've written a number of Django apps using my own LDAP module, so I
> was also wondering if folks think now is a mature-enough time to
> perhaps grab Mailman 3, its Django front-end, and hack together what
> I'm after?
> A final, random question: Mailman 3 is still in alpha, but is it
> stable given that it's almost been in alpha for 4 years?
> 

Didn't test it yet, so no comment from me.


Kind regards,
Christian Mack

From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Fri Jan 20 10:26:21 2012
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman Admin)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 10:26:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] E-Mail Interface Documentation
In-Reply-To: <CAKGvnEDSN1cTunEgPxoEW7buWf-TU71Dyt89DfeV9vP=6Cso=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKGvnEDSN1cTunEgPxoEW7buWf-TU71Dyt89DfeV9vP=6Cso=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F19333D.1020506@uni-konstanz.de>

Hello Sascha Rissel


On 2012-01-20 09:04, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> 
> is there a documentation of the email interface available somewhere?
> I found: http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node10.html
> but that page seems to be offline.

You can send an email to any list with activated processing of email
commands, in order to get the command syntax.

Just send an email with subject "help" (without quotes) to
somelist-request at yourdomain.org

As an example mailman-users-request at python.org should work.


Kind regards,
Christian Mack

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Fri Jan 20 13:16:40 2012
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:16:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead
	of	Sympa (from Majordomo)
In-Reply-To: <4F192E50.1080408@uni-konstanz.de>
References: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713351@ad-cc-mbx01>
	<4F192E50.1080408@uni-konstanz.de>
Message-ID: <20120120121640.GQ4423@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:05:20AM +0100, Mailman Admin wrote:
> On 2012-01-19 19:32, Geoff Mayes wrote:
> > 
> > I hope a general question about Mailman's features and future
> > direction (along with some Sympa comparisons) are appropriate for
> > this list.
> > 
> > The University of Oregon is migrating away from Majordomo. 

Hurrah! ;o)

> > We
> > decided on Sympa because Mailman sends passwords over email
> <... >
> > Does anyone know a way around the emailed passwords issue in Mailman,
> > clever hacks, certain plugins, or a timeline for Mailman 3's release?
> > 
> You can stop the cronjob used to email reminders.

+1

> With this you don't email them to the users, but they will still be
> saved in clear text in Mailman.

Another way could be to make the 'don't use a valuable password' text
more prominent, or enforce some password complexity test.

There is the LDAP extension, YMMV.

> > I've written a number of Django apps using my own LDAP module, so I
> > was also wondering if folks think now is a mature-enough time to
> > perhaps grab Mailman 3, its Django front-end, and hack together what
> > I'm after?
> > A final, random question: Mailman 3 is still in alpha, but is it
> > stable given that it's almost been in alpha for 4 years?

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-announce/2011-September/000164.html
seems to be the latest update. IIRC, Barry's not on -users, but does
post on -developers.

(There was an update, but I can't quickly find it)

I could be wrong on that, though/


-- 
"I try not to get drunk at lunchtime any earlier in the week than
 Thursday."
    -- Giles Coren

From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Jan 20 17:48:56 2012
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 08:48:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead of
 Sympa (from Majordomo)
In-Reply-To: <4F192E50.1080408@uni-konstanz.de>
References: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713351@ad-cc-mbx01>
	<4F192E50.1080408@uni-konstanz.de>
Message-ID: <4F199AF8.4080107@tuunq.com>

On 1/20/2012 1:05 AM, Mailman Admin wrote:
> On 2012-01-19 19:32, Geoff Mayes wrote:
>> Does anyone know a way around the emailed passwords issue in Mailman,
>> clever hacks, certain plugins, or a timeline for Mailman 3's release?
>>
> You can stop the cronjob used to email reminders.
> With this you don't email them to the users, but they will still be
> saved in clear text in Mailman.

You can also easily change the code to leave it out of the reminder.

z!

From CNulk at scu.edu  Fri Jan 20 18:38:50 2012
From: CNulk at scu.edu (C Nulk)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:38:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead of
 Sympa (from Majordomo)
In-Reply-To: <4F199AF8.4080107@tuunq.com>
References: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713351@ad-cc-mbx01>
	<4F192E50.1080408@uni-konstanz.de> <4F199AF8.4080107@tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <4F19A6AA.3080801@scu.edu>

On 1/20/2012 8:48 AM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
> On 1/20/2012 1:05 AM, Mailman Admin wrote:
>> On 2012-01-19 19:32, Geoff Mayes wrote:
>>> Does anyone know a way around the emailed passwords issue in Mailman,
>>> clever hacks, certain plugins, or a timeline for Mailman 3's release?
>>>
>> You can stop the cronjob used to email reminders.
>> With this you don't email them to the users, but they will still be
>> saved in clear text in Mailman.
>
> You can also easily change the code to leave it out of the reminder.

Or simplest of all, use the option on the General Settings page (under
Notifications) and turn off the monthly reminders.

Chris



From gmayes at uoregon.edu  Fri Jan 20 19:06:55 2012
From: gmayes at uoregon.edu (Geoff Mayes)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 18:06:55 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead of
 Sympa (from Majordomo)
In-Reply-To: <4F19A6AA.3080801@scu.edu>
References: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713351@ad-cc-mbx01>
	<4F192E50.1080408@uni-konstanz.de> <4F199AF8.4080107@tuunq.com>
	<4F19A6AA.3080801@scu.edu>
Message-ID: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713F47@ad-cc-mbx01>

Thank you everyone for your help and sharing all of this information.  I found it very useful and further proof of the active and supportive Mailman community.

It sounds like, to summarize, the Mailman2 branch can lock down its passwords by:
1. disabling cron password reminders
2. increasing the warning in the UI about not using valuable passwords

Mailman2 cannot change the following, however, without code changes:
a. storing passwords unencrypted
b. sending password reminder emails to list subscribers who request a reminder via the UI (is that right?).

I'm not worried about (a), just trying to be thorough.

Question:
Can list admins request a password reminder email via the UI?  In the UI I see that subscribers can but it doesn't look like list admins can.  If that is true and a list admin/owner loses their password, does the Mailman site administrator have to fetch it for them?  I'm thinking about the extra work (however small, as others have pointed out that admins rarely change their settings) this will put on our mailman administrator if there are 2k+ lists.

Thanks to all for your prompt and wonderful responses, Geoff Mayes

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+gmayes=uoregon.edu at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+gmayes=uoregon.edu at python.org] On
> Behalf Of C Nulk
> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 9:39 AM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead
> of Sympa (from Majordomo)
> 
> On 1/20/2012 8:48 AM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
> > On 1/20/2012 1:05 AM, Mailman Admin wrote:
> >> On 2012-01-19 19:32, Geoff Mayes wrote:
> >>> Does anyone know a way around the emailed passwords issue in
> >>> Mailman, clever hacks, certain plugins, or a timeline for Mailman 3's
> release?
> >>>
> >> You can stop the cronjob used to email reminders.
> >> With this you don't email them to the users, but they will still be
> >> saved in clear text in Mailman.
> >
> > You can also easily change the code to leave it out of the reminder.
> 
> Or simplest of all, use the option on the General Settings page (under
> Notifications) and turn off the monthly reminders.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy:
> http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-
> archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/gmayes%40uoregon.edu

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 20 19:09:18 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 10:09:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] slow "out" queue
In-Reply-To: <E230A996-2996-4E6C-B305-F0250462CFF1@me.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201201201009180980f6bf6666@MSAPIRO>

Anil Jangity wrote:

>We just moved a very old mailman infrastructure mailman to Solaris and sendmail.
>It seems, when a message is posted, the "out" directory doesn't seem to clear out fast enough. 
>
>   1K   archive
>   1K   bounces
>   1K   commands
>   1K   in
>   1K   news
> 403K   out
>   1K   retry
>   1K   shunt
>   1K   virgin
>
>The size just stays like that forever and slowly decrements. When I look in /var/log/syslog (mail log of sendmail), I see deliveries going through.


Look at Mailman's 'smtp' log. You undoubtedly have a huge backlog in
the out queue because you aren't processing outgoing SMTP fast enough
to keep up with demand. In the smtp log you will see entries like

Jan 20 09:41:14 2012 (17283) <message-id> smtp to listname for 223
recips, completed in 3.500 seconds

You will observe that each entry's timestamp is equal to that of the
previous entry plus this entry's 'completed in' time indicating no
delay between messages. Each entry represents processing of one out/
queue entry. You will probably also note that the processing rate is
much less than the 64 recipients/second in the above message which is
from a full VERP installation.


>I do a 'truss' of the OutgoingRunner python process and I see:
>
>% truss -p 11997
>recv(10, 0x00748454, 8192, 0)   (sleeping...)
>...
>% 
>
>
>What is it waiting for?


Most likely an SMTP reply from sendmail. See the FAQ's at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/roA9> and <http://wiki.list.org/x/q4A9>. This
is almost certainly a case of sendmail not keeping up with Mailman's
demand and if so, will require sendmail tuning to fix.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CNulk at scu.edu  Fri Jan 20 19:20:50 2012
From: CNulk at scu.edu (C Nulk)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 10:20:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead of
 Sympa (from Majordomo)
In-Reply-To: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713F47@ad-cc-mbx01>
References: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713351@ad-cc-mbx01>
	<4F192E50.1080408@uni-konstanz.de> <4F199AF8.4080107@tuunq.com>
	<4F19A6AA.3080801@scu.edu>
	<6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713F47@ad-cc-mbx01>
Message-ID: <4F19B082.9040805@scu.edu>

On 1/20/2012 10:06 AM, Geoff Mayes wrote:
> Thank you everyone for your help and sharing all of this information.  I found it very useful and further proof of the active and supportive Mailman community.
>
> It sounds like, to summarize, the Mailman2 branch can lock down its passwords by:
> 1. disabling cron password reminders
> 2. increasing the warning in the UI about not using valuable passwords
>
> Mailman2 cannot change the following, however, without code changes:
> a. storing passwords unencrypted
> b. sending password reminder emails to list subscribers who request a reminder via the UI (is that right?).
>
> I'm not worried about (a), just trying to be thorough.
>
> Question:
> Can list admins request a password reminder email via the UI?  In the UI I see that subscribers can but it doesn't look like list admins can.  If that is true and a list admin/owner loses their password, does the Mailman site administrator have to fetch it for them?  I'm thinking about the extra work (however small, as others have pointed out that admins rarely change their settings) this will put on our mailman administrator if there are 2k+ lists.
>
> Thanks to all for your prompt and wonderful responses, Geoff Mayes

I don't believe the List Administrator/owner can have the list admin
password sent to them.  I don't think the site administrator can do it
either.  The only solution is to have the Site Admin change the list
administrator password or if there are multiple list admins, have them
tell the other admins for the list what the password is or change the
password and then let the other know (if any).

But I could be wrong.  We don't have 2+k lists so having the Site Admin
change a list admin password is not a problem.  Then again, since we
started using Mailman, that has happened maybe three or four times.  The
student government moderates their own list for the undergraduate
student population and sometimes they forget to let the incoming
government people know the moderator password.

Chris
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mailman-users-bounces+gmayes=uoregon.edu at python.org
>> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+gmayes=uoregon.edu at python.org] On
>> Behalf Of C Nulk
>> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 9:39 AM
>> To: mailman-users at python.org
>> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead
>> of Sympa (from Majordomo)
>>
>> On 1/20/2012 8:48 AM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
>>> On 1/20/2012 1:05 AM, Mailman Admin wrote:
>>>> On 2012-01-19 19:32, Geoff Mayes wrote:
>>>>> Does anyone know a way around the emailed passwords issue in
>>>>> Mailman, clever hacks, certain plugins, or a timeline for Mailman 3's
>> release?
>>>> You can stop the cronjob used to email reminders.
>>>> With this you don't email them to the users, but they will still be
>>>> saved in clear text in Mailman.
>>> You can also easily change the code to leave it out of the reminder.
>> Or simplest of all, use the option on the General Settings page (under
>> Notifications) and turn off the monthly reminders.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy:
>> http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-
>> archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
>> users/gmayes%40uoregon.edu

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 20 19:20:50 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 10:20:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] E-Mail Interface Documentation
In-Reply-To: <CAKGvnEDSN1cTunEgPxoEW7buWf-TU71Dyt89DfeV9vP=6Cso=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201201201020500027e751e60d@MSAPIRO>

Sascha Rissel wrote:
>
>is there a documentation of the email interface available somewhere?
>I found: http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node10.html
>but that page seems to be offline.


Yes, www.list.org appears to be currently off line. It is mirrored at
<http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/> and
<http://mailman.sourceforge.net/>. You can find the above page at
<http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/node10.html> and
<http://mailman.sourceforge.net/mailman-member/node10.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Fri Jan 20 21:09:23 2012
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:09:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead of
 Sympa (from Majordomo)
In-Reply-To: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713351@ad-cc-mbx01>
References: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713351@ad-cc-mbx01>
Message-ID: <20120120150923.3b089441@limelight.wooz.org>

On Jan 19, 2012, at 06:32 PM, Geoff Mayes wrote:

> Mailman is more mature (the max bug ID for mailman in its issue-tracking
> system is ~913,400; the max bug ID for Sympa is 8,117 and there is still no
> bug category for Sympa's latest version -- 6.1.7 -- even though it has been
> out for over 4 months)

I'm not sure bug numbers are a good indication.  Launchpad has one namespace
for all bugs, so the maximum number reflects bugs reported across all hosted
upstream projects *and* all Ubuntu bugs.

OTOH, Mailman has been around since the mid-90's.  That's good because the key
parts of the code are heavily battle-tested and (IMO) very stable.  It's bad
because some things like the web ui really need  a good updating (and this is
going on in the web-ui project for Mailman 3).

> Mailman has greater branch stability and code reliability (I noticed that
> Barry ran a pre-checkin acceptance suite for the Postgres patch for Mailman
> 3 before he checked it in)

Yep.  I have a strict testing policy for mm3 code.

> Mailman has a bright and well-documented future (Mailman 3 and its bug
> tracker, source code, milestones, etc)

I think so too!

> Mailman has a more active and supportive community, which is very important
> in resolving future issues (Mailman had 150 list postings in December and
> through mid-January while Sympa had 44; I've been impressed with Mark
> Sapiro's responsiveness on this list)

Mark is *awesome*.

>Does anyone know a way around the emailed passwords issue in Mailman, clever
>hacks, certain plugins, or a timeline for Mailman 3's release?

As I think others have pointed out, individual users can disable password
reminders, list admins can disable them for their lists, and site admins can
disable them for the entire site (by turning off the cron job).

As for mm3 release, well, I think now that I'll be giving a talk at Pycon 2012
on it, I *have* to release it before then!  There are two blockers, that I am
attempting to solve before going into beta.  1) the REST API needs an
authentication/authorization framework; 2) we need some kind of schema
migration approach.  Come on over to mailman-developers@ if you want to
participate.

I know there is at least one site using mm3 in production today.  I have some
patches that need to be applied to improve the API performance, but I'm
confident the core engine is pretty solid.

>I've written a number of Django apps using my own LDAP module, so I was also
>wondering if folks think now is a mature-enough time to perhaps grab Mailman
>3, its Django front-end, and hack together what I'm after?

Yes, I think now is a great time to do that.  The API is fleshed out enough
that you should be able to build a web-ui to communicate with it, or you can
help Florian and Terri drive the official web-ui toward release.

>A final, random question: Mailman 3 is still in alpha, but is it stable given
>that it's almost been in alpha for 4 years?

Nothing can replace actual field testing under real world conditions, but I'm
pretty confident about the core engine.  As I mentioned above, one way or
another it has to go to beta before Pycon. :)

-Barry

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Fri Jan 20 22:17:40 2012
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:17:40 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead of
 Sympa (from Majordomo)
In-Reply-To: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713351@ad-cc-mbx01>
References: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713351@ad-cc-mbx01>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.1201201459360.50613@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Geoff Mayes wrote:

> If Mailman 
> provided a way around the passwords in the clear issue, I'm pretty sure 
> we'd go with Mailman ...

My personal opionion is Mailman passwords are so insignificant that it 
really shouldn't be an issue. On the other hand, I recognize that you may 
have direction from above that because it's called a "password", it needs 
to be ulta-secure (there are, unfortunately, too many bosses who don't 
understand security and don't understand that different types of systems 
have different security needs). How much damage could be done if a Mailman 
user password was compromised? How much damage could be done if my on-line 
banking password was compromised? The answers are very different yet there 
are many who want them secured in the same way.

I so rarely use a Mailman password that I don't even try to remember it. 
If I need to use it on a Mailman system, I have it send it to me, use it, 
then forget it.

If someone wants to mess up my subscription on a Mailman system, well, go 
ahead. I have far more important things in life to worry about.

Also, consider how many other times passwords are sent in the clear, just 
not in email. A snail mail with a password is also a "password sent in the 
clear" yet few seem to have a problem with that. Maybe because I practice 
good password managment, I am less concerned about an email being snooped 
than I am about snail mail theft or privileged access abuses.

I would not worry about Mailman passwords being sent in the clear and 
instead, urge users to use good password practices. For Mailman, encourage 
them to let Mailman assign a password (and thereby, not reuse a PW). 
Because no matter what you do, people will reuse passwords, use the same 
password for low and high security needs, use easy-to-guess passwords, 
write them down, and other things that just make Mailman's password 
concerns the least of your organization's security concerns.

-- Larry Stone
    lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From gmayes at uoregon.edu  Sat Jan 21 03:29:24 2012
From: gmayes at uoregon.edu (Geoff Mayes)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 02:29:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead of
 Sympa (from Majordomo)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.1201201459360.50613@albion.stonejongleux.com>
References: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE713351@ad-cc-mbx01>
	<alpine.OSX.2.00.1201201459360.50613@albion.stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <6312F7735995824DBDF26DF3C332CCDE7140B7@ad-cc-mbx01>

Larry,

I think you closed our security hole!  You're right that someone else getting their hands on your mailman password is incredibly minor.  The issue is when individuals subscribe to lists using their central LDAP/AD password as their Mailman list password.  In that case password interception is a bigger deal.

As you recommend in your paragraph on password best practices, people should let Mailman2 auto-generate a password.  And it looks like this can easily be enforced by simply removing the "Pick a password" and "Reenter password to confirm" fields from the list subscription page.  Mailman will then auto-generate all passwords.  Voila!  Unique passwords that only exist in Mailman.  (Now if someone chooses to start using their Mailman list password as their LDAP password...)   :)

The annoying issue that remains is that Mailman2 cannot be brought under centralized authorization and users have yet another password to maintain.  But as you and others have pointed out, list owners and list subscribers rarely interact with Mailman.  And MM3 is on the horizon...

This is great.  Thanks, Geoff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+gmayes=uoregon.edu at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+gmayes=uoregon.edu at python.org] On
> Behalf Of Larry Stone
> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 1:18 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead
> of Sympa (from Majordomo)
> 
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Geoff Mayes wrote:
> 
> > If Mailman
> > provided a way around the passwords in the clear issue, I'm pretty
> > sure we'd go with Mailman ...
> 
> My personal opionion is Mailman passwords are so insignificant that it really
> shouldn't be an issue. On the other hand, I recognize that you may have
> direction from above that because it's called a "password", it needs to be
> ulta-secure (there are, unfortunately, too many bosses who don't
> understand security and don't understand that different types of systems
> have different security needs). How much damage could be done if a
> Mailman user password was compromised? How much damage could be
> done if my on-line banking password was compromised? The answers are
> very different yet there are many who want them secured in the same way.
> 
> I so rarely use a Mailman password that I don't even try to remember it.
> If I need to use it on a Mailman system, I have it send it to me, use it, then
> forget it.
> 
> If someone wants to mess up my subscription on a Mailman system, well, go
> ahead. I have far more important things in life to worry about.
> 
> Also, consider how many other times passwords are sent in the clear, just
> not in email. A snail mail with a password is also a "password sent in the clear"
> yet few seem to have a problem with that. Maybe because I practice good
> password managment, I am less concerned about an email being snooped
> than I am about snail mail theft or privileged access abuses.
> 
> I would not worry about Mailman passwords being sent in the clear and
> instead, urge users to use good password practices. For Mailman, encourage
> them to let Mailman assign a password (and thereby, not reuse a PW).
> Because no matter what you do, people will reuse passwords, use the same
> password for low and high security needs, use easy-to-guess passwords,
> write them down, and other things that just make Mailman's password
> concerns the least of your organization's security concerns.
> 
> -- Larry Stone
>     lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy:
> http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-
> archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/gmayes%40uoregon.edu

From anilj at me.com  Sat Jan 21 22:30:45 2012
From: anilj at me.com (Anil Jangity)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:30:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digests not getting sent
Message-ID: <94F45CA9-E3E7-47E1-B2CF-E518818AAE23@me.com>

Hi, 

I ran into a problem with digests not getting sent and I found out the root cause to be something like this, on Solaris:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-September/066979.html

So, I compiled my own Python 2.7, and tried to send 

/path/to/python2.7 -S /path/to/senddigests

That reported no errors, and I found 'lists/*/*digest.mbox' getting processed, as far as I can tell. The files disappeared after running the above command.
Where is the logging for digests? 

How do I know it's really working? I created a test list and added a member with Digest options. Sent some emails as another member, then ran that command. I have not received any email so far.

Thanks!



From anilj at me.com  Sat Jan 21 22:44:46 2012
From: anilj at me.com (Anil Jangity)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:44:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] not expanding msg_footer
Message-ID: <18E54502-B467-4E8A-A25B-21C3D76BE77F@me.com>

The footer for the emails that I send aren't getting expanded. The mailing list name is working, but not the other variables. Where is this pulled from?

Thanks.



The list configuration shows:

msg_footer = """ _______________________________________________
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
%(real_name)s mailing list      (%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
%(user_optionsurl)s

This email sent to %(user_address)s"""



From anilj at me.com  Sun Jan 22 03:55:16 2012
From: anilj at me.com (Anil Jangity)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 18:55:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digests not getting sent
In-Reply-To: <94F45CA9-E3E7-47E1-B2CF-E518818AAE23@me.com>
References: <94F45CA9-E3E7-47E1-B2CF-E518818AAE23@me.com>
Message-ID: <13978086-E316-45DD-832A-8BA918B2455B@me.com>

Using the Solaris python version:

{imsadmin at olida 43}% /gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/cron/senddigests --listname=ade
List: ade: problem processing /gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/lists/ade/digest.mbox:
decoding Unicode is not supported
{imsadmin at olida 44}% 

Digest mbox file:

-rw-rw----   1 imsadmin ims         2634 Jan 21 18:51 testlists/digest.mbox


{imsadmin at olida 49}% /gcs/app/mail/listsp/python2.7/bin/python /gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/cron/senddigests --listname=testlists
{imsadmin at olida 50}% 

The digest.mbox file is gone, nothing in logs/smtp.
This is very bad, there is no error and Mailman just deleted the mbox file. How can I debug this?

{imsadmin at olida 36}% /usr/bin/python
Python 2.4.6 (#1, Dec 13 2009, 23:45:11) [C] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import email
>>> email.__version__
'3.0.2'
>>> 



On Jan 21, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Anil Jangity wrote:

> Hi, 
> 
> I ran into a problem with digests not getting sent and I found out the root cause to be something like this, on Solaris:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-September/066979.html
> 
> So, I compiled my own Python 2.7, and tried to send 
> 
> /path/to/python2.7 -S /path/to/senddigests
> 
> That reported no errors, and I found 'lists/*/*digest.mbox' getting processed, as far as I can tell. The files disappeared after running the above command.
> Where is the logging for digests? 
> 
> How do I know it's really working? I created a test list and added a member with Digest options. Sent some emails as another member, then ran that command. I have not received any email so far.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jan 22 05:38:38 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 20:38:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] not expanding msg_footer
In-Reply-To: <18E54502-B467-4E8A-A25B-21C3D76BE77F@me.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952012012120383803592863620d@MSAPIRO>

Anil Jangity wrote:

>The footer for the emails that I send aren't getting expanded. The mailing list name is working, but not the other variables. Where is this pulled from?
[...]
>The list configuration shows:
>
>msg_footer = """ _______________________________________________
>Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>%(real_name)s mailing list      (%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s)
>Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>%(user_optionsurl)s
>
>This email sent to %(user_address)s"""

I'm not sure what's going on.

The variables user_optionsurl and user_address are only available if
the list is personalized. If the list is not personalized, the
variable interpolation will fail and this affects all variables. I.e.
Non-digest options -> personalize must be set to Yes or Full
Personalization to use those variables. If personalize is not shown as
the second setting on Non-digest options, you need to add

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

to mm_cfg.py.

However, you say that %(real_name)s is correctly replaced, and that
shouldn't happen if the above is the explanation, and I have no other
explanation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jan 22 06:31:56 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 21:31:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digests not getting sent
In-Reply-To: <13978086-E316-45DD-832A-8BA918B2455B@me.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201201212131550984ad4469cf@MSAPIRO>

Anil Jangity wrote:

>Using the Solaris python version:
>
>{imsadmin at olida 43}% /gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/cron/senddigests --listname=ade
>List: ade: problem processing /gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/lists/ade/digest.mbox:
>decoding Unicode is not supported
>{imsadmin at olida 44}% 
>
>Digest mbox file:
>
>-rw-rw----   1 imsadmin ims         2634 Jan 21 18:51 testlists/digest.mbox


So here an exception was thrown and the digest.mbox was apparently left
in place as it should be. Have you seen
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/328353>?


>{imsadmin at olida 49}% /gcs/app/mail/listsp/python2.7/bin/python /gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/cron/senddigests --listname=testlists
>{imsadmin at olida 50}% 
>
>The digest.mbox file is gone, nothing in logs/smtp.
>This is very bad, there is no error and Mailman just deleted the mbox file. How can I debug this?


Mailman 2.1.x has not been vetted for use with Python 2.7. I know of no
specific reason why it shouldn't work, but we are currently
recommending Python 2.6.x. See the doc/FAQs at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/bAM> and <http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9>.


This is not the same list as the one in your first test. However, if
there were messages in this list's digest.mbox and if there were
digest recipients, the digest.mbox should never be removed without
queuing the digest to be sent in Mailman's 'virgin' queue. Is the
message there? Is VirginRunner running? See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

Also see the 'shunt' queue and Mailman's 'error' log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anilj at me.com  Sun Jan 22 23:15:51 2012
From: anilj at me.com (Anil Jangity)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:15:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digests not getting sent
In-Reply-To: <PC195201201212131550984ad4469cf@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201201212131550984ad4469cf@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <BBB34C40-DE5B-4E2D-BF9A-540DD18F153E@me.com>

error log shows this. How do I re-parse these messages? The digest.mbox files are gone, as soon as I run into this error. where is it "preserving"?


Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Uncaught runner exception: No module named header
Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 160, in dequeue
    msg = cPickle.load(fp)
ImportError: No module named header

Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Skipping and preserving unparseable message: 1327270411.391972+7e77c4c48f3738aaa8ef44b5aa7ddb4176b7e2ac
Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Uncaught runner exception: No module named header
Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 160, in dequeue
    msg = cPickle.load(fp)
ImportError: No module named header

Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Skipping and preserving unparseable message: 1327270411.424971+ea345bed52b63ad4d2c02cec5964d2df915a4b43



On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:31 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Anil Jangity wrote:
> 
>> Using the Solaris python version:
>> 
>> {imsadmin at olida 43}% /gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/cron/senddigests --listname=ade
>> List: ade: problem processing /gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/lists/ade/digest.mbox:
>> decoding Unicode is not supported
>> {imsadmin at olida 44}% 
>> 
>> Digest mbox file:
>> 
>> -rw-rw----   1 imsadmin ims         2634 Jan 21 18:51 testlists/digest.mbox
> 
> 
> So here an exception was thrown and the digest.mbox was apparently left
> in place as it should be. Have you seen
> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/328353>?
> 
> 
>> {imsadmin at olida 49}% /gcs/app/mail/listsp/python2.7/bin/python /gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/cron/senddigests --listname=testlists
>> {imsadmin at olida 50}% 
>> 
>> The digest.mbox file is gone, nothing in logs/smtp.
>> This is very bad, there is no error and Mailman just deleted the mbox file. How can I debug this?
> 
> 
> Mailman 2.1.x has not been vetted for use with Python 2.7. I know of no
> specific reason why it shouldn't work, but we are currently
> recommending Python 2.6.x. See the doc/FAQs at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/bAM> and <http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9>.
> 
> 
> This is not the same list as the one in your first test. However, if
> there were messages in this list's digest.mbox and if there were
> digest recipients, the digest.mbox should never be removed without
> queuing the digest to be sent in Mailman's 'virgin' queue. Is the
> message there? Is VirginRunner running? See the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.
> 
> Also see the 'shunt' queue and Mailman's 'error' log.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 23 04:57:03 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 19:57:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digests not getting sent
In-Reply-To: <BBB34C40-DE5B-4E2D-BF9A-540DD18F153E@me.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201201221957030687a68b44f2@MSAPIRO>

Anil Jangity wrote:

>error log shows this. How do I re-parse these messages? The digest.mbox files are gone, as soon as I run into this error. where is it "preserving"?
>
>
>Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Uncaught runner exception: No module named header
>Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 160, in dequeue
>    msg = cPickle.load(fp)
>ImportError: No module named header
>
>Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Skipping and preserving unparseable message: 1327270411.391972+7e77c4c48f3738aaa8ef44b5aa7ddb4176b7e2ac
>Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Uncaught runner exception: No module named header
>Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 160, in dequeue
>    msg = cPickle.load(fp)
>ImportError: No module named header
>
>Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Skipping and preserving unparseable message: 1327270411.424971+ea345bed52b63ad4d2c02cec5964d2df915a4b43


The preserved messages are in qfiles/bad, but you have a major
compatibility issue. I can't really tell in detail what's going on
because the ImportError is thrown diring unpickling, but somehow the
queue entry being processed by whatever runner this is has a reference
to an email.header object, but the Python processing this is using an
older email package that doesn't have that module, only email.Header.

The most likely underlying issue is this is Python 2.5 or newer, but
you have an older email package in Mailman's pythonlib. The email
package in Mailman's pythonlib is not compatible with the rest of the
Python library in any Python 2.5 or newer version.

If Mailman 2.1.12 or later is properly configured and installed from
source, it will detect that the system Python has an email package as
new or newer than 2.5.8 and will not install its email package in
pythonlib and will remove an existing pythonlib/email.

It seems that perhaps what you have done is upgraded the Python in an
older Mailman installation and not reconfigured Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 23 05:57:15 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 20:57:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digests not getting sent
In-Reply-To: <FF0A9258-EE51-49AD-9E22-4B54396CFBB6@me.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201201222057150562a7826001@MSAPIRO>

Anil Jangity wrote:

>Yup, that's exactly what I've done. I had mailman compiled with python 2.4. After I ran into that digest issue, I installed Python 2.7 in a separate directory, which I used for doing 'senddigest'.
>Do I need to run through the mailman "configure" again or can I point mailman to different python binary. I am sure I need to reconfigure, but just wanted to double check.


You need to rerun configure with the option

--with-python=/gcs/app/mail/listsp/python2.7/bin/python

(or wherever your Python 2.7 binary is now) in addition to the options
you originally used, and then make install.


>Also, how do I re-inject the emails in qfiles/bad back into system? 


First look at those entries with Mailman's bin/dumpdb, e.g.

bin/dumpdb -p
qfiles/bad/1327270411.424971ea345bed52b63ad4d2c02cec5964d2df915a4b43.psv

Although that probably won't work unless you either change the shebang
line at the top of bin/dumpdb to point to Python 2.7, or do it after
you reconfigure and make install or just run it with

/path/to/python2.7 bin/dumpdb -p
qfiles/bad/1327270411.424971ea345bed52b63ad4d2c02cec5964d2df915a4b43.psv

It will be best to do the reconfigure and make install first. In any
case, you must do it before the step below, or the same exception will
recur.

Then, you will see what the messages are. If they are the digests you
are looking for, mv the files to qfiles/virgin, but change the
extension from .psv to .pck.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anilj at me.com  Mon Jan 23 05:21:56 2012
From: anilj at me.com (Anil Jangity)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 20:21:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digests not getting sent
In-Reply-To: <PC195201201221957030687a68b44f2@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201201221957030687a68b44f2@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <FF0A9258-EE51-49AD-9E22-4B54396CFBB6@me.com>

Yup, that's exactly what I've done. I had mailman compiled with python 2.4. After I ran into that digest issue, I installed Python 2.7 in a separate directory, which I used for doing 'senddigest'.
Do I need to run through the mailman "configure" again or can I point mailman to different python binary. I am sure I need to reconfigure, but just wanted to double check.

Also, how do I re-inject the emails in qfiles/bad back into system? 

Thanks




On Jan 22, 2012, at 7:57 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Anil Jangity wrote:
> 
>> error log shows this. How do I re-parse these messages? The digest.mbox files are gone, as soon as I run into this error. where is it "preserving"?
>> 
>> 
>> Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Uncaught runner exception: No module named header
>> Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "/gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
>>   msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>> File "/gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 160, in dequeue
>>   msg = cPickle.load(fp)
>> ImportError: No module named header
>> 
>> Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Skipping and preserving unparseable message: 1327270411.391972+7e77c4c48f3738aaa8ef44b5aa7ddb4176b7e2ac
>> Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Uncaught runner exception: No module named header
>> Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "/gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
>>   msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>> File "/gcs/app/mail/listsp/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 160, in dequeue
>>   msg = cPickle.load(fp)
>> ImportError: No module named header
>> 
>> Jan 22 14:13:32 2012 (10035) Skipping and preserving unparseable message: 1327270411.424971+ea345bed52b63ad4d2c02cec5964d2df915a4b43
> 
> 
> The preserved messages are in qfiles/bad, but you have a major
> compatibility issue. I can't really tell in detail what's going on
> because the ImportError is thrown diring unpickling, but somehow the
> queue entry being processed by whatever runner this is has a reference
> to an email.header object, but the Python processing this is using an
> older email package that doesn't have that module, only email.Header.
> 
> The most likely underlying issue is this is Python 2.5 or newer, but
> you have an older email package in Mailman's pythonlib. The email
> package in Mailman's pythonlib is not compatible with the rest of the
> Python library in any Python 2.5 or newer version.
> 
> If Mailman 2.1.12 or later is properly configured and installed from
> source, it will detect that the system Python has an email package as
> new or newer than 2.5.8 and will not install its email package in
> pythonlib and will remove an existing pythonlib/email.
> 
> It seems that perhaps what you have done is upgraded the Python in an
> older Mailman installation and not reconfigured Mailman.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 


From sascha at rissel.it  Mon Jan 23 08:32:41 2012
From: sascha at rissel.it (Sascha Rissel)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:32:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Enabling Mailinglist Archive
Message-ID: <CAKGvnEAj9N2-WZThHTphqTrxB_DARJdw537W2hnu3=4HXQEiuw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello there,

I have just moved my mailing lists to a new (now an own) server.
On the old server, I had the archive running, archie_private  set to
"private" and archive_volume_frequency to "daily".

Unfortunately, the archive remains empty. When I open the archive, I just
get the messages:
> No messages have been posted to this list yet, so the archives are
currently empty.

What do I have to undertake to get the archive running?

Thanks in advance,
Sascha.

From sascha at rissel.it  Mon Jan 23 10:26:35 2012
From: sascha at rissel.it (Sascha Rissel)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:26:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Enabling Mailinglist Archive
In-Reply-To: <CAKGvnEAj9N2-WZThHTphqTrxB_DARJdw537W2hnu3=4HXQEiuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKGvnEAj9N2-WZThHTphqTrxB_DARJdw537W2hnu3=4HXQEiuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKGvnEBbTbMkNv2Z-OAyeRKWMcbaoQMjXk0GNjN-4pMT7BCncQ@mail.gmail.com>

I just searched a bit through this lists archive.
I found this post:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg47862.html

I just did a "ps ax" and saw quite few "qrunner" processes, but no
archrunner process.
Could this be the reason?

How do I start the archrunner process?

Thanks,
Sascha.

2012/1/23 Sascha Rissel <sascha at rissel.it>

> Hello there,
>
> I have just moved my mailing lists to a new (now an own) server.
> On the old server, I had the archive running, archie_private  set to
> "private" and archive_volume_frequency to "daily".
>
> Unfortunately, the archive remains empty. When I open the archive, I just
> get the messages:
> > No messages have been posted to this list yet, so the archives are
> currently empty.
>
> What do I have to undertake to get the archive running?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Sascha.
>

From mikecesure at gmail.com  Sun Jan 22 19:05:59 2012
From: mikecesure at gmail.com (Michele Federle)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 19:05:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modify options-login page
Message-ID: <CAKJstYT=d1pkOCeYi=akXTs1sJsBEZXY6GpBvS9VHwU0=vZcgw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everybody!

I have a problem with the public page "options"; I've already modify the
html structure
of the page but, first logging in, appears an other page, which asks for
password and/or email.
My question is: can I change that page, too?? How??

Thanks

-- 
:: Michele Federle
:: Twitter: @mikecesure
:: Skype: mikecesure

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 23 18:39:46 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:39:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Enabling Mailinglist Archive
In-Reply-To: <CAKGvnEBbTbMkNv2Z-OAyeRKWMcbaoQMjXk0GNjN-4pMT7BCncQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952012012309394603436bd4e745@MSAPIRO>

Sascha Rissel wrote:
>
>I just did a "ps ax" and saw quite few "qrunner" processes, but no
>archrunner process.
>Could this be the reason?
>
>How do I start the archrunner process?


First check Mailman's 'qrunner' and 'error' logs and find out why
ArchRunner died and fix any problems. Then stop and start Mailman.
Don't just restart. Stop and then start.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 23 18:50:04 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:50:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modify options-login page
In-Reply-To: <CAKJstYT=d1pkOCeYi=akXTs1sJsBEZXY6GpBvS9VHwU0=vZcgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201201230950040109f0806971@MSAPIRO>

Michele Federle wrote:
>
>I have a problem with the public page "options"; I've already modify the
>html structure
>of the page but, first logging in, appears an other page, which asks for
>password and/or email.
>My question is: can I change that page, too?? How??


That page is not built from a template. It is built on the fly from
hard-coded data in the loginpage() function in Mailman/Cgi/options.py,
and can only be changed by editing that module, and any change would
affect all lists in the installation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Jan 23 03:10:42 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 20:10:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] not expanding msg_footer
In-Reply-To: <PC1952012012120383803592863620d@MSAPIRO>
References: <18E54502-B467-4E8A-A25B-21C3D76BE77F@me.com>
	<PC1952012012120383803592863620d@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <auto-000045529974@mailfront3.g2host.com>

At 10:38 PM 1/21/2012, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Anil Jangity wrote:
>
> >The footer for the emails that I send aren't getting expanded. The 
> mailing list name is working, but not the other variables. Where is 
> this pulled from?
>[...]
> >The list configuration shows:
> >
> >msg_footer = """ _______________________________________________
> >Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> >%(real_name)s mailing list      (%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s)
> >Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
> >%(user_optionsurl)s
> >
> >This email sent to %(user_address)s"""
>
>I'm not sure what's going on.


I had problems with the footer once, and it turns out that there was 
a space at the end, once I removed the space it worked correctly.

Dave



>The variables user_optionsurl and user_address are only available if
>the list is personalized. If the list is not personalized, the
>variable interpolation will fail and this affects all variables. I.e.
>Non-digest options -> personalize must be set to Yes or Full
>Personalization to use those variables. If personalize is not shown as
>the second setting on Non-digest options, you need to add
>
>OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
>
>to mm_cfg.py.
>
>However, you say that %(real_name)s is correctly replaced, and that
>shouldn't happen if the above is the explanation, and I have no other
>explanation.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dandrews%40visi.com


From jian.gao at sjgeophysics.com  Tue Jan 24 00:15:33 2012
From: jian.gao at sjgeophysics.com (Jian Gao)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:15:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Loop back to myself?
Message-ID: <4F1DEA15.4030703@sjgeophysics.com>

Hello,

I move our email server (postfix) to another server. All emails works. 
But the mailman maillist always bounce back couse of "loops back to myself"

I checked maillog:
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta MailScanner[10861]: Message 89AE280B9.A32A9 from 
127.0.0.1 (jian.gao at sjgeophysics.com) is whitelisted
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta MailScanner[10861]: Requeue: 89AE280B9.A32A9 to 
CCC0C8063
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta postfix/qmgr[30875]: CCC0C8063: 
from=<jian.gao at sjgeophysics.com>, size=2723, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta MailScanner[10861]: Uninfected: Delivered 1 messages
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta MailScanner[10861]: Deleted 1 messages from 
processing-database
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta postfix/smtpd[12044]: warning: 24.207.43.100: 
address not listed for hostname h24-207-43-100.cable.static.dccnet.com
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta postfix/smtpd[12044]: connect from 
unknown[24.207.43.100]
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta postfix/smtp[12076]: warning: host 
mail.sjgeophysics.com[24.207.43.100]:25 greeted me with my own hostname 
zeta.sjgeophysics.com
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta postfix/smtp[12076]: warning: host 
mail.sjgeophysics.com[24.207.43.100]:25 replied to HELO/EHLO with my own 
hostname zeta.sjgeophysics.com
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta postfix/smtp[12076]: CCC0C8063: 
to=<sjv-dev at mail.sjgeophysics.com>, 
relay=mail.sjgeophysics.com[24.207.43.100]:25, delay=3.2, 
delays=2.8/0.01/0.39/0, dsn=5.4.6, status=bounced (mail for 
mail.sjgeophysics.com loops back to myself)
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta postfix/smtpd[12044]: disconnect from 
unknown[24.207.43.100]
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta postfix/cleanup[12052]: C1D7980B9: 
message-id=<20120123230908.C1D7980B9 at zeta.sjgeophysics.com>
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta postfix/qmgr[30875]: C1D7980B9: from=<>, size=4549, 
nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta postfix/bounce[12077]: CCC0C8063: sender 
non-delivery notification: C1D7980B9
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta postfix/qmgr[30875]: CCC0C8063: removed
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta postfix/virtual[12078]: C1D7980B9: 
to=<jian.gao at sjgeophysics.com>, relay=virtual, delay=0.02, 
delays=0/0.01/0/0.01, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to maildir)
Jan 23 15:09:08 zeta postfix/qmgr[30875]: C1D7980B9: removed

It seems to be some DNS or hostname issue. Could someone give me a help?

Thanks.


-- 
*Jian Gao*


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 24 00:29:12 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:29:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Loop back to myself?
In-Reply-To: <4F1DEA15.4030703@sjgeophysics.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520120123152912021800e0b3a6@MSAPIRO>

Jian Gao <jian.gao at sjgeophysics.com>
   Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:15:33 -0800
     To: mailman-users at python.org

>Hello,
>
>I move our email server (postfix) to another server. All emails works. 
>But the mailman maillist always bounce back couse of "loops back to myself"
>
[...]
>It seems to be some DNS or hostname issue. Could someone give me a help?


More likely it is a Postfix configuration issue.

We may be able to help if you post the contents of mm_cfg.py and the
output from 'postconf -n'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stepanov at bm.ru  Tue Jan 24 06:46:25 2012
From: stepanov at bm.ru (=?utf-8?B?0KHRgtC10L/QsNC90L7QsiDQoNC+0LzQsNC9INCS0LvQsNC00LjQvNC40YDQvg==?= =?utf-8?B?0LLQuNGH?=)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:46:25 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with password to unsubscribe user from list
	through mail command
Message-ID: <8F7EB881E831A8498801092BFCB122682E6F68@MSK-EX6.main.mmbank.ru>

 

Dear mailman,

 

I have a problem when I send mail command to unsubscribe user from specified mail list with mail command:

 unsubscribe somepass address=some email address <mailto:address=mail at mail.mail>  

 

I have got message from mailman that password was wrong. 

At the same time I can use GUI with the same password. It is strange fail because command works for some addresses works and for some will return an error.

 

Where to dig?

 

 Thank you in advance,

 

Roman Stepanov


From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it  Tue Jan 24 12:32:23 2012
From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:32:23 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] feature suggestion for digest mode ?
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1201241223450.3010@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>

I have elected to receive the majority of the mailing lists I am 
subscribed to in mime digest mode (actually all the lists who support such 
a mode, which incidentally means all mailman-managed ones).

Recently there was a discussion on the alpine lists about ways to 
automatically trigger (as an user preference in the MTA, not as a list 
preference in mailman or alike) that replies go to the list, not to the 
poster (I'm one of the 50% of the people who think that a discussion list 
is made for discussions not for person-to-person replies).

This can be technically implemented in alpine as a role-setting rule 
triggered by some pattern in the e-mail message one is replying to.

The suggestion was to use List-Id.

However, if one receives from the list as a MIME digest (as I do), and 
accesses individual Message/RFC822 portions as if it were an individual 
e-mail (which I do via a key definition rule in alpine), these portions DO 
NOT CONTAIN ANY of the "list management keywords".

I guess a quick workaround for me would be to use the To: field instead of 
List-Id, but I wonder if a future mailman version could consider a way to 
include the "list management keywords" in the  Message/RFC822 components !

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy)
For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wir muessen wissen / wir werden wissen
          Inscription on David Hilbert's grave  http://tinyurl.com/3e5hfl
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 24 19:34:02 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 10:34:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with password to unsubscribe user from
 list through mail command
In-Reply-To: <8F7EB881E831A8498801092BFCB122682E6F68@MSK-EX6.main.mmbank.ru>
References: <8F7EB881E831A8498801092BFCB122682E6F68@MSK-EX6.main.mmbank.ru>
Message-ID: <4F1EF99A.5050505@msapiro.net>

On 1/23/2012 9:46 PM, ???????? ????? ???????????? wrote:
> 
> I have a problem when I send mail command to unsubscribe user from specified mail list with mail command:
> 
>  unsubscribe somepass address=some email address
> 
>  
> 
> I have got message from mailman that password was wrong. 
> 
> At the same time I can use GUI with the same password. It is strange fail because command works for some addresses works and for some will return an error.


The password in the email unsubscribe command must be the password of
the user being unsubscribed. The list admin password is not acceptable
in this context.

I don't know why it would work for some addresses and not others unless
the password provided for the ones that worked was actually the user's
password or the ones that worked were for lists for which unsubscribe
requires admin approval in which case the password is ignored.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mj at mjw.se  Mon Jan 23 18:16:09 2012
From: mj at mjw.se (mattias)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:16:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman discontinued?
Message-ID: <002501ccd9f2$b4e39af0$7917e255@mj>

the list.org are down

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 24 19:50:08 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 10:50:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman discontinued?
In-Reply-To: <002501ccd9f2$b4e39af0$7917e255@mj>
Message-ID: <PC1952012012410500805158163120b@MSAPIRO>

mattias wrote:

>the list.org are down

The GNU Mailman project is alive and well. Significant development is
proceding on Mailman 3 and Mailman 2.1.x is still actively supported.

We are aware that the server at list.org (and www.list.org) is down and
are trying to get service restored as quickly as possible.

In the mean time, there are mirrors of this site at
<http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/> and
<http://mailman.sourceforge.net/>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mj at mjw.se  Tue Jan 24 20:06:06 2012
From: mj at mjw.se (mattias)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:06:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman discontinued?
References: <PC1952012012410500805158163120b@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <000601ccdacb$409ba460$7917e255@mj>

what? mailman 3.0?? are it downloadable yet?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net>
To: "mattias" <mj at mjw.se>; <Mailman-Users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman discontinued?


> mattias wrote:
> 
>>the list.org are down
> 
> The GNU Mailman project is alive and well. Significant development is
> proceding on Mailman 3 and Mailman 2.1.x is still actively supported.
> 
> We are aware that the server at list.org (and www.list.org) is down and
> are trying to get service restored as quickly as possible.
> 
> In the mean time, there are mirrors of this site at
> <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/> and
> <http://mailman.sourceforge.net/>.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 24 20:44:38 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:44:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman discontinued?
In-Reply-To: <000601ccdacb$409ba460$7917e255@mj>
Message-ID: <PC195201201241144380062f46f1ea4@MSAPIRO>

mattias wrote:

>what? mailman 3.0?? are it downloadable yet?


It is still in alpha and not production ready. It can be downloaded
from <https://launchpad.net/mailman/3.0>.

See the second half of the post from Barry at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2012-January/072781.html>
for a bit more detail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Jan 25 03:02:14 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:02:14 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  feature suggestion for digest mode ?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1201241223450.3010@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>
References: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1201241223450.3010@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>
Message-ID: <87d3a84k0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Lucio Chiappetti writes:

 > I guess a quick workaround for me would be to use the To: field instead of 
 > List-Id, but I wonder if a future mailman version could consider a way to 
 > include the "list management keywords" in the  Message/RFC822
 > components !

This wouldn't be hard to do, I think, but an alternative would be for
the MUA to provide a way for messages from an "exploded" digest to
inherit (some) headers from the digest.  This would work even for
lists that don't provide the new feature, and might have some other
benefits (ie, for other header fields) as well.

Of course if the exploder is a separate program, it would have to
actually edit the exploded messages, but if it's integrated into the
MUA, these headers could be supplied as attributes on the (internal)
message object.




From barry at list.org  Wed Jan 25 16:19:26 2012
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:19:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman sprint at Pycon 2012
Message-ID: <20120125101926.78087ab0@resist.wooz.org>

Hey folks, it looks like we're going to have a quorum of core developers at
Pycon 2012 in Santa Clara, so we will definitely be sprinting on Mailman 3.
We'll be primarily working on the integration of the core engine with the
official Django-based web ui.  If you want to participate, kibbitz, or just
learn more about MM3, I highly encourage you to join us.

Remember, the Pycon sprints are free and you do not need to register for the
conference to attend.  Please do sign up on this page if you're going to join
us though, so we can plan sprint room sizes and such:

https://us.pycon.org/2012/community/sprints/projects/

If you haven't been to a Pycon before though, I highly recommend it.  There
are tons of great speakers and presentations, some great tutorials before the
conference starts, and always excellent BoFs and other events.  Attendance is
capped at 1500 though, so if you're thinking about it, JFDI already! :)

-Barry
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From mikecesure at gmail.com  Thu Jan 26 22:07:03 2012
From: mikecesure at gmail.com (Michele Federle)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:07:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modify options-login page
In-Reply-To: <PC195201201230950040109f0806971@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAKJstYT=d1pkOCeYi=akXTs1sJsBEZXY6GpBvS9VHwU0=vZcgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201201230950040109f0806971@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAKJstYRmW=SHnVFJk_dSHO6chRddNAY7_NPJX2Ss7eyi+55T7g@mail.gmail.com>

2012/1/23 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

> Michele Federle wrote:
> >
> >I have a problem with the public page "options"; I've already modify the
> >html structure
> >of the page but, first logging in, appears an other page, which asks for
> >password and/or email.
> >My question is: can I change that page, too?? How??
>
>
> That page is not built from a template. It is built on the fly from
> hard-coded data in the loginpage() function in Mailman/Cgi/options.py,
> and can only be changed by editing that module, and any change would
> affect all lists in the installation.
>

Can anybody give me further information about editing this page??
I unfortunately don't know python code, but I'm going to learn it as soon as
I have some time...
I'd need to redirect users, as they logout from the personal options-page,
to
the listinfo-page. Then, I'd like to do the same if they mistaken in typing
in
the password or the email address and, in this last case, to prompt an error
like "wrong password" or "not existing email address " !!

Ideas or a piece of advise??

-- 
:: Michele Federle
:: Twitter: @mikecesure
:: Skype: mikecesure

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 27 05:40:56 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:40:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modify options-login page
In-Reply-To: <CAKJstYRmW=SHnVFJk_dSHO6chRddNAY7_NPJX2Ss7eyi+55T7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201201262040560875e0bde163@MSAPIRO>

Michele Federle wrote:
>
>Can anybody give me further information about editing this page??
>I unfortunately don't know python code, but I'm going to learn it as soon as
>I have some time...
>I'd need to redirect users, as they logout from the personal options-page,
>to
>the listinfo-page.


To do this, find the following in Mailman/Cgi/options.py

    if cgidata.has_key('logout'):
        print mlist.ZapCookie(mm_cfg.AuthUser, user)
        loginpage(mlist, doc, user, language)
        print doc.Format()
        return

Replace the lines

        loginpage(mlist, doc, user, language)
        print doc.Format()

so it reads

    if cgidata.has_key('logout'):
        print mlist.ZapCookie(mm_cfg.AuthUser, user)
        listinfo_url = '%slistinfo%s/%s' % (mlist.web_page_url,
                                            mm_cfg.CGIEXT,
                                            mlist.internal_name(),
                                           )
        print """Status: 303 See Other
Location: %s

If you see this, <a href=%s>Click to redirect</a>.
""" % (listinfo_url, listinfo_url)
        return

It must be indented exactly as shown and using only spaces, not tabs.
This will cause logout from the user options page to redirect to the
list's listinfo page.


>Then, I'd like to do the same if they mistaken in typing
>in
>the password or the email address and, in this last case, to prompt an error
>like "wrong password" or "not existing email address " !!


If you really mean you would like an authentication failure from the
options login page to return the list's listinfo page with an error
message, that would be difficult to do because the listinfo page
doesn't have a mechanism for reporting errors when invoked with an
HTTP GET. And why would you want to take the user away from the login
page just because of a simple typo in email address or password?

If you just want to replace the "Authentication failed." error message
with something more specific, you could do that, but you would have to
modify the code to first validate the member address, because the
existing code calls the SecurityManager WebAuthenticate() method to
authenticate the entry and it's context (list member, list owner, site
owner) and receives onle a True or False return.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mikecesure at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 14:51:30 2012
From: mikecesure at gmail.com (Michele Federle)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 14:51:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modify options-login page
In-Reply-To: <PC195201201262040560875e0bde163@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAKJstYRmW=SHnVFJk_dSHO6chRddNAY7_NPJX2Ss7eyi+55T7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201201262040560875e0bde163@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAKJstYQ44wS_QOtbun8ZrNC0_Yz6ZQK+6=DqMT_rOHPbrSky2Q@mail.gmail.com>

I've done it, but now there is a problem!!! In the options-page appears an
error:

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.13
We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.

How can I hide this and show the page??

2012/1/27 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
>
> If you really mean you would like an authentication failure from the
> options login page to return the list's listinfo page with an error
> message, that would be difficult to do because the listinfo page
> doesn't have a mechanism for reporting errors when invoked with an
> HTTP GET. And why would you want to take the user away from the login
> page just because of a simple typo in email address or password?


Just because I modified the html and I have both email and password inputs
for login in the listinfo page :)
So it would be better if users don't see the login form on the options-page,
it doesn't suit with the rest!!

If you just want to replace the "Authentication failed." error message
> with something more specific, you could do that, but you would have to
> modify the code to first validate the member address, because the
> existing code calls the SecurityManager WebAuthenticate() method to
> authenticate the entry and it's context (list member, list owner, site
> owner) and receives onle a True or False return.


Oh, such a shame!! And make a simple redirect in case of login-error??

Thank you !!
-- 
:: Michele Federle
:: Twitter: @mikecesure
:: Skype: mikecesure

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 27 18:59:43 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 09:59:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modify options-login page
In-Reply-To: <CAKJstYQ44wS_QOtbun8ZrNC0_Yz6ZQK+6=DqMT_rOHPbrSky2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201201270959430234d8bb58d5@MSAPIRO>

Michele Federle wrote:

>I've done it, but now there is a problem!!! In the options-page appears an
>error:
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.13
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!


You have made a mistake in modifying options.py. There will be an entry
in Mailman's 'error' log from the above including a traceback and a
Python error.

If you can't figure out your mistake, post the traceback and error and
your modified code.

I suggest you copy/paste the code fragment directly from
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2012-January/072811.html>.


>2012/1/27 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
>>
>> If you really mean you would like an authentication failure from the
>> options login page to return the list's listinfo page with an error
>> message, that would be difficult to do because the listinfo page
>> doesn't have a mechanism for reporting errors when invoked with an
>> HTTP GET. And why would you want to take the user away from the login
>> page just because of a simple typo in email address or password?
>
>
>Just because I modified the html and I have both email and password inputs
>for login in the listinfo page :)
>So it would be better if users don't see the login form on the options-page,
>it doesn't suit with the rest!!


OK, but the web UI wasn't designed to work that way, so it's not easy
to do.


>>If you just want to replace the "Authentication failed." error message
>> with something more specific, you could do that, but you would have to
>> modify the code to first validate the member address, because the
>> existing code calls the SecurityManager WebAuthenticate() method to
>> authenticate the entry and it's context (list member, list owner, site
>> owner) and receives onle a True or False return.
>
>
>Oh, such a shame!! And make a simple redirect in case of login-error??


If you want to have an options login failure go back to the listinfo
page, you can make a similar modification to this code:

        if cgidata.has_key('password'):
            doc.addError(_('Authentication failed.'))
            # So as not to allow membership leakage, prompt for the
email
            # address and the password here.
            if mlist.private_roster <> 0:
                syslog('mischief',
                       'Login failure with private rosters: %s',
                       user)
                user = None
            # give an HTTP 401 for authentication failure
            print 'Status: 401 Unauthorized'
        loginpage(mlist, doc, user, language)
        print doc.Format()
        return

changing it to something like:

        if cgidata.has_key('password'):
            doc.addError(_('Authentication failed.'))
            # So as not to allow membership leakage, prompt for the
email
            # address and the password here.
            if mlist.private_roster <> 0:
                syslog('mischief',
                       'Login failure with private rosters: %s',
                       user)
                user = None
        listinfo_url = '%slistinfo%s/%s' % (mlist.web_page_url,
                                            mm_cfg.CGIEXT,
                                            mlist.internal_name(),
                                           )
        print """Status: 303 See Other
Location: %s

If you see this, <a href=%s>Click to redirect</a>.
""" % (listinfo_url, listinfo_url)
        return


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mikecesure at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 22:06:14 2012
From: mikecesure at gmail.com (Michele Federle)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:06:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modify options-login page
In-Reply-To: <PC195201201270959430234d8bb58d5@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAKJstYQ44wS_QOtbun8ZrNC0_Yz6ZQK+6=DqMT_rOHPbrSky2Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201201270959430234d8bb58d5@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAKJstYQ_pWw0txbvrCd=joq2vqrfi2mY=9Gg2zY1AfteWxaysw@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Mark, it works marvellously !!!
Thousand thanks again!!

2012/1/27 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

> Michele Federle wrote:
>
> >I've done it, but now there is a problem!!! In the options-page appears an
> >error:
> >
> >Bug in Mailman version 2.1.13
> >We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>
> You have made a mistake in modifying options.py. There will be an entry
> in Mailman's 'error' log from the above including a traceback and a
> Python error.
>
> If you can't figure out your mistake, post the traceback and error and
> your modified code.
>
> I suggest you copy/paste the code fragment directly from
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2012-January/072811.html>.
>
>
> >2012/1/27 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
> >>
> >> If you really mean you would like an authentication failure from the
> >> options login page to return the list's listinfo page with an error
> >> message, that would be difficult to do because the listinfo page
> >> doesn't have a mechanism for reporting errors when invoked with an
> >> HTTP GET. And why would you want to take the user away from the login
> >> page just because of a simple typo in email address or password?
> >
> >
> >Just because I modified the html and I have both email and password inputs
> >for login in the listinfo page :)
> >So it would be better if users don't see the login form on the
> options-page,
> >it doesn't suit with the rest!!
>
>
> OK, but the web UI wasn't designed to work that way, so it's not easy
> to do.
>
>
> >>If you just want to replace the "Authentication failed." error message
> >> with something more specific, you could do that, but you would have to
> >> modify the code to first validate the member address, because the
> >> existing code calls the SecurityManager WebAuthenticate() method to
> >> authenticate the entry and it's context (list member, list owner, site
> >> owner) and receives onle a True or False return.
> >
> >
> >Oh, such a shame!! And make a simple redirect in case of login-error??
>
>
> If you want to have an options login failure go back to the listinfo
> page, you can make a similar modification to this code:
>
>        if cgidata.has_key('password'):
>            doc.addError(_('Authentication failed.'))
>            # So as not to allow membership leakage, prompt for the
> email
>            # address and the password here.
>            if mlist.private_roster <> 0:
>                syslog('mischief',
>                       'Login failure with private rosters: %s',
>                       user)
>                user = None
>            # give an HTTP 401 for authentication failure
>            print 'Status: 401 Unauthorized'
>         loginpage(mlist, doc, user, language)
>        print doc.Format()
>        return
>
> changing it to something like:
>
>        if cgidata.has_key('password'):
>            doc.addError(_('Authentication failed.'))
>            # So as not to allow membership leakage, prompt for the
> email
>            # address and the password here.
>            if mlist.private_roster <> 0:
>                syslog('mischief',
>                       'Login failure with private rosters: %s',
>                       user)
>                user = None
>         listinfo_url = '%slistinfo%s/%s' % (mlist.web_page_url,
>                                            mm_cfg.CGIEXT,
>                                            mlist.internal_name(),
>                                           )
>        print """Status: 303 See Other
> Location: %s
>
> If you see this, <a href=%s>Click to redirect</a>.
> """ % (listinfo_url, listinfo_url)
>        return
>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
:: Michele Federle
:: Twitter: @mikecesure
:: Skype: mikecesure

From mwoods1971 at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 27 17:21:15 2012
From: mwoods1971 at yahoo.com (Mallory S Woods II)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:21:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and delivery of messages
Message-ID: <1327681275.90844.YahooMailNeo@web130104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Greetings all,

I have mailman version 2.1.9 installed in a shared environment. I don't have root access and I can't access the log files. My client has 5000 emails that I have?successively?imported all of the emails and have done my configuration on mailman. I added a gmail account to the list so that I could test to see if the message had gone through. Two days after I sent the message, I have not seen a sign that the gmail account?received?the email. There is no message in the spam folder of this account. I wanted to know if there was an easy way of determining if the message reached all of the members. As a side note, I did?receive?the email message to my account which is not a gmail account.?

Thanks!

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jan 28 19:40:45 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:40:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and delivery of messages
In-Reply-To: <1327681275.90844.YahooMailNeo@web130104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <1327681275.90844.YahooMailNeo@web130104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4F24412D.3000002@msapiro.net>

On 1/27/2012 8:21 AM, Mallory S Woods II wrote:
> Greetings all,
> 
> I have mailman version 2.1.9 installed in a shared environment. I
> don't have root access and I can't access the log files. My client
> has 5000 emails that I have successively imported all of the emails
> and have done my configuration on mailman. I added a gmail account to
> the list so that I could test to see if the message had gone through.
> Two days after I sent the message, I have not seen a sign that the
> gmail account received the email. There is no message in the spam
> folder of this account. I wanted to know if there was an easy way of
> determining if the message reached all of the members. As a side
> note, I did receive the email message to my account which is not a
> gmail account.


If you posted from the gmail account, you didn't see the message from
the list in your gmail account because of a gmail "feature" that
discards messages that "duplicate" messages in your "Sent mail" folder.
See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9> for more about this.

As far as your original question is concerned, there is no easy way of
determining if the message reached all of the members. The ONLY way to
determine this is to contact each of the list members directly (in
person, by telephone, etc.) and ask them.

If you had access to Mailman's logs and the MTA logs on the server, you
could determine whether the message was accepted by the destination mail
exchange server for each recipient. In fact, if bounce processing is
enabled for the list, you could safely assume that each recipient's
message was delivered to an MX server if it didn't record a bounce.

If bounce processing is enabled and appropriately configured for the
list traffic, you can assume that recipients whose messages do bounce
will eventually get their delivery disabled and get removed from the list.

As for messages which do not bounce, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cpz at tuunq.com  Sat Jan 28 19:30:21 2012
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:30:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and delivery of messages
In-Reply-To: <1327681275.90844.YahooMailNeo@web130104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <1327681275.90844.YahooMailNeo@web130104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4F243EBD.50200@tuunq.com>

On 1/27/2012 8:21 AM, Mallory S Woods II wrote:
>  I added a gmail account to the list so that
> I could test to see if the message had gone through.

Please refer to the FAQ:

http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/I+use+Gmail-Googlemail%2C+but+I+can%27t+tell+if+any+of+my+messages+have+been+posted+to+the+list

z!

From anilj at me.com  Mon Jan 30 03:57:47 2012
From: anilj at me.com (Anil Jangity)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 18:57:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] CSRF prevention in mailman3
Message-ID: <0E2ACE98-A96B-43BD-8A55-169A94BD6C43@me.com>

Will mailman3 have any security measures in the form submissions to prevent CSRF?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_request_forgery

This is one of our requirements for using mailman.
Thanks,
Anil


From barry at list.org  Mon Jan 30 18:13:42 2012
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 12:13:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] CSRF prevention in mailman3
In-Reply-To: <0E2ACE98-A96B-43BD-8A55-169A94BD6C43@me.com>
References: <0E2ACE98-A96B-43BD-8A55-169A94BD6C43@me.com>
Message-ID: <20120130121342.472446cc@resist.wooz.org>

On Jan 29, 2012, at 06:57 PM, Anil Jangity wrote:

>Will mailman3 have any security measures in the form submissions to prevent
>CSRF?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_request_forgery

Mailman 3 has quite a different architecture than Mailman 2.  Specifically,
the web UI is a separate project from the core engine, and the two talk to
each other over REST+JSON.

The impact of this on the above question is two part.  First, yes there is an
official web UI being developed in Django.  Florian Fuchs and Terri Oda are
leading that work, and we will be sprinting on integration of this with the
core at Pycon 2012.  Everybody is welcome to join us of course, but please do
sign up here if you are going to attend:

https://us.pycon.org/2012/community/sprints/projects/

What this means is that CSRFs and other exploits must be addressed within the
context of Django, but none of the web vulnerabilities that still exist in the
MM2 web UI (if any) will have any impact on this.  I do suggest contacting
mailman-security at list.org if you have any known issues.  Mark has been
fantastic at fixing these when they're brought to our attention.

The second part of the story is that with Mailman 3, you aren't limited to the
official Django-based web UI.  Anything that speaks HTTP and JSON (or iow, the
whole freakin' web :) can be integrated with the core engine.  So if you have
your own web site, or want to build a web UI from PHP, you can integrate it
with the core engine just as easily as the official Django web UI.  We're not
using any hidden, magical, or special APIs to do this, so anything we can do,
you can do.

We welcome further discussion and participation, but
mailman-developers at python.org is the better mailing list to use for that.

Cheers,
-Barry

From pierrekuhn82 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 19:15:42 2012
From: pierrekuhn82 at gmail.com (Pierre KUHN)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:15:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hidden address list
Message-ID: <CA+4xHZkYp3qH4d_G5us5BipDva4093XhLa9MENC4+QoTK32kuA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello

I want to change the configuration of the mailing list so that all messages are
sent directly to the recipient, and the name of the mailing list does not
appear anywhere in the heads. Is possible now? Sla dan because I find
information FAQ from 2006

Cordially

Pierre

From n.kolstein at gmail.com  Tue Jan 31 11:46:47 2012
From: n.kolstein at gmail.com (Nils Kolstein)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 11:46:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail sent to 2 different mailinglists under one
	domain fail..
Message-ID: <CAF4ZRpr-8w5SYHBOf8L_hw9SPG+3SYQC3JYXMrm1s6Q8BPYSnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

As a list administrator for several mailinglists I encounter the
following issue:

I have two mailinglists under one domain. When sending an E-Mail to
both mailinglists the message is only delivered to one mailinglist. I
don't recieve a "recipient unknown" message or similar back so it
seems the message is blackholed somewhere.

This behaviour is seen when mailing from several different domains
(gmail, hotmail etc.)

The version of Mailman installed is 2.1.9

I checked the FAQ and list archives and was unable to find a similar
issue. Does anyone know what's going on? Is there some setting I have
to change?

Many thanks in adavnce for your help.

regards,

Nils Kolstein

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 31 21:10:11 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 12:10:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hidden address list
In-Reply-To: <CA+4xHZkYp3qH4d_G5us5BipDva4093XhLa9MENC4+QoTK32kuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952012013112101101561a738867@MSAPIRO>

Pierre KUHN wrote:
>
>I want to change the configuration of the mailing list so that all messages are
>sent directly to the recipient, and the name of the mailing list does not
>appear anywhere in the heads. Is possible now? Sla dan because I find
>information FAQ from 2006


It would help if I knew exactly which FAQ you were looking at. If it is
<http://wiki.list.org/x/U4A9>, the information in that FAQ is still
current with the exception of the reference to the Google SOC project
which I just removed.

If you just want posts received from the list to be addressed To: the
recipient, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/UYA9>, but if you
want all traces of the mailing list removed from the headers of the
post, that would require code modification in Mailman or a custom
handler <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> to remove the unwanted headers
and set the envelope sender.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 31 21:21:44 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 12:21:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail sent to 2 different mailinglists under
	onedomain fail..
In-Reply-To: <CAF4ZRpr-8w5SYHBOf8L_hw9SPG+3SYQC3JYXMrm1s6Q8BPYSnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201201311221440890d1758026@MSAPIRO>

Nils Kolstein wrote:
>
>I have two mailinglists under one domain. When sending an E-Mail to
>both mailinglists the message is only delivered to one mailinglist. I
>don't recieve a "recipient unknown" message or similar back so it
>seems the message is blackholed somewhere.


Do you mean that if you send mail to either list, one works and one
doesn't, or do you mean that only when a single post is addressed to
both lists, it is only received from one of the lists?

If the former, see the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9> and
<http://wiki.list.org/x/noA9>. It's also possible that lists settings
for the affected list are causing the post to be discarded.

If the latter, I would say look at the setting Non-digest options ->
regular_exclude_lists for the list from which you don't receive the
post except this setting didn't appear until Mailman 2.1.10.


>This behaviour is seen when mailing from several different domains
>(gmail, hotmail etc.)


I don't know why the sending domain would affect this.


>The version of Mailman installed is 2.1.9


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pierrekuhn82 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 31 21:23:45 2012
From: pierrekuhn82 at gmail.com (Pierre KUHN)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:23:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hidden address list
In-Reply-To: <PC1952012013112101101561a738867@MSAPIRO>
References: <CA+4xHZkYp3qH4d_G5us5BipDva4093XhLa9MENC4+QoTK32kuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952012013112101101561a738867@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CA+4xHZ=MY30=pNCCU1mnhwOQ-Xgq72uAfNqiRfkzifZamj4CFA@mail.gmail.com>

I understand that this is not possible with mailman, you confirm?

2012/1/31 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

> Pierre KUHN wrote:
> >
> >I want to change the configuration of the mailing list so that all
> messages are
> >sent directly to the recipient, and the name of the mailing list does not
> >appear anywhere in the heads. Is possible now? Sla dan because I find
> >information FAQ from 2006
>
>
> It would help if I knew exactly which FAQ you were looking at. If it is
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/U4A9>, the information in that FAQ is still
> current with the exception of the reference to the Google SOC project
> which I just removed.
>
> If you just want posts received from the list to be addressed To: the
> recipient, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/UYA9>, but if you
> want all traces of the mailing list removed from the headers of the
> post, that would require code modification in Mailman or a custom
> handler <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> to remove the unwanted headers
> and set the envelope sender.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Pierre KUHN

06 26 84 56 09
04 63 82 94 38
14 bis Rue du Moulin
03380 La Chapelaude
MSN: msn at pierre-kuhn.org
SKYPE: kuhn.pierre

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 31 21:48:01 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 12:48:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hidden address list
In-Reply-To: <CA+4xHZ=MY30=pNCCU1mnhwOQ-Xgq72uAfNqiRfkzifZamj4CFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201201311248010593a33b6812@MSAPIRO>

Pierre KUHN wrote:
>
>I understand that this is not possible with mailman, you confirm?


It is possible to set the To: header of delivered posts to the name (if
known) and address of the recipient by setting the list's personalize
seeting to Full Personalization as discussed in the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/UYA9>.


It is also possible to remove all traces of the mailing list name from
the message headers and to set the envelope sender to something other
than LISTNAME-bounces at LIST.DOMAIN by implementing a custom handler to
do so. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> for information on
custom handlers.

Without the custom handler, the list posting address will be placed in
a Cc: header of a fully personalized post if it is not forced into
Reply-To: and the Sender: and Errors-To: headers and the envelpe
sender (usually copied into Return-Path:) will be set to
LISTNAME-bounces at LIST.DOMAIN. Most, if not all other references to the
list outside of Received: headers can be removed by setting the list's
include_rfc2369_headers to No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan