From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep  1 03:26:42 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 18:26:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + mysql
In-Reply-To: <4E5E885A.3040502@humerca.com>
References: <PC195201108311107260419b9acb5bd@Notebook-09>
	<4E5E885A.3040502@humerca.com>
Message-ID: <4E5EDF52.3060500@msapiro.net>

On 8/31/2011 12:15 PM, Klemen Humerca wrote:
> Yes, web admin interface works and extend.py is in the place
> (/var/lib/mailman/lists/list-name). And I've been checking logs in
> /var/log/mailman. I've added this line to mm_cfg.py:
> 
> MYSQL_MEMBER_DB_VERBOSE = "4"
> 
> and I've found this in error log:
> 
> Aug 31 13:03:14 2011 (16396) Uncaught runner exception: (1064, "You have
> an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your
> MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'TYPE=MyISAM' at
> line 24")
> Aug 31 13:03:14 2011 (16396) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 113, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 151, in _onefile
>     mlist = self._open_list(listname)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 196, in _open_list
>     mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=False)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 125, in __init__
>     func(self)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/lists/clani/extend.py", line 6, in extend
>     list._memberadaptor = MysqlMemberships(list)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MysqlMemberships.py", line 92, in __init__
>     message = "MysqlMemberships " \
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/MySQLdb/cursors.py", line 163,
> in execute
>     self.errorhandler(self, exc, value)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/MySQLdb/connections.py", line
> 35, in defaulterrorhandler
>     raise errorclass, errorvalue
> ProgrammingError: (1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check
> the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right
> syntax to use near 'TYPE=MyISAM' at line 24")
> 
> Aug 31 13:03:14 2011 (16396) SHUNTING:
> 1314788594.28422+2ce0db1b09dddbc0a14b8eaa0701fa568dcd9196
> Aug 31 13:03:14 2011 qrunner(16396): Exception 
> exceptions.AttributeError :  "MysqlMemberships instance has no attribute
> 'conn'"  in <bound method MysqlMemberships.__del__ of
> <Mailman.MysqlMemberships.MysqlMemberships instance at 0x9e07d0c>>  ignored
> 
> It looks like there is something wrong in MysqlMemberships.py file? I've
> checked the file but there is not 'TYPE=MyISAM' in it....


Lines 90 through 97 of the MysqlMemberships.py I think you are using say

        if mm_cfg.MYSQL_MEMBER_DB_VERBOSE:
            # Message to indicate successful init.
            message = "MysqlMemberships " \
                + "$Revision: 1.69 $ initialized with host: %s (%s)" % (
                mm_cfg.connection.get_host_info(),
                mm_cfg.connection.get_server_info() )
            syslog('error', message)
            syslog('mysql', message)

Lines 92 through 95 are one long statement. There is something wrong
with the mm_cfg.connection object. This should be a MySQL database
connection established earlier by the call to self._dbconnect() at line
67. This in turn did

        try:
            mm_cfg.connection = MySQLdb.connect(
                passwd=mm_cfg.MYSQL_MEMBER_DB_PASS,
                db=mm_cfg.MYSQL_MEMBER_DB_NAME,
                user=mm_cfg.MYSQL_MEMBER_DB_USER,
                host=mm_cfg.MYSQL_MEMBER_DB_HOST)
            mm_cfg.cursor = mm_cfg.connection.cursor()

There is probably some issue with your definitions of
MYSQL_MEMBER_DB_PASS, MYSQL_MEMBER_DB_NAME, MYSQL_MEMBER_DB_USER and/or
MYSQL_MEMBER_DB_HOST in mm_cfg.py

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From joydeep at infoservices.in  Thu Sep  1 14:52:33 2011
From: joydeep at infoservices.in (J. Bakshi)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 18:22:33 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman configuration issue with a functional
	postfix server
Message-ID: <20110901182233.1973769f@shiva.selfip.org>

Hello list,

This is an open-suse 11.4 box with a postfix server, support multidomain
and functional since 2006.

I have installed mailman here. I have followed the suse README
file shipped with this mailman package and done the configuration
accordingly.  I have created a list and can sent there subscription
request. the system also sent me back the mail having confirmation code.
Good.....  A reply to that message do noting and not get any mail after sending
reply to that again and again. So completed subscription with web link.
Welcome mail sentarrived. Not bad till now. But when I sent mail to the list,
those mails are not distributed... :-( I think there is something missing
in postfix ( actually in the manual) that mailman can't sent confirmation as well
as distribute the mail to the list. 


The main.cf and master.cf is unchanged as there is nothing
in README which advise to do any modification.

From mail.log it is seen the messages are successfully delivered
to the list account. No warning.

The welcome message is according to standard template and
the links given at that message are all working well.

Could someone kindly enlighten me to realize the missing link ?

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep  1 17:07:04 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2011 08:07:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman configuration issue with a functional
 postfix server
In-Reply-To: <20110901182233.1973769f@shiva.selfip.org>
References: <20110901182233.1973769f@shiva.selfip.org>
Message-ID: <4E5F9F98.3060105@msapiro.net>

On 9/1/2011 5:52 AM, J. Bakshi wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> This is an open-suse 11.4 box with a postfix server, support multidomain
> and functional since 2006.
> 
> I have installed mailman here. I have followed the suse README
> file shipped with this mailman package and done the configuration
> accordingly.  I have created a list and can sent there subscription
> request. the system also sent me back the mail having confirmation code.
> Good.....  A reply to that message do noting and not get any mail after sending
> reply to that again and again. So completed subscription with web link.
> Welcome mail sentarrived. Not bad till now. But when I sent mail to the list,
> those mails are not distributed... :-( I think there is something missing
> in postfix ( actually in the manual) that mailman can't sent confirmation as well
> as distribute the mail to the list. 


Please see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.


> The main.cf and master.cf is unchanged as there is nothing
> in README which advise to do any modification.
> 
>>From mail.log it is seen the messages are successfully delivered
> to the list account. No warning.


Mail to list addresses should not be delivered to an
account/mailbox/maildir. It should be piped to the mail/mailman wrapper
with an appropriate command.

See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From joydeep at infoservices.in  Thu Sep  1 19:52:40 2011
From: joydeep at infoservices.in (J. Bakshi)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 23:22:40 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman configuration issue with a functional
 postfix server
In-Reply-To: <4E5F9F98.3060105@msapiro.net>
References: <20110901182233.1973769f@shiva.selfip.org>
	<4E5F9F98.3060105@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20110901232240.2cd96923@shiva.selfip.org>

On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 08:07:04 -0700
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

<snip>
> On 9/1/2011 5:52 AM, J. Bakshi wrote:
>
> > The main.cf and master.cf is unchanged as there is nothing
> > in README which advise to do any modification.
> > 
> >>From mail.log it is seen the messages are successfully delivered
> > to the list account. No warning.
> 

</snip>

> 
> Mail to list addresses should not be delivered to an
> account/mailbox/maildir. It should be piped to the mail/mailman wrapper
> with an appropriate command.
> 
> See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>.
> 

THIS VERY POINT makes me think, think and think......
This is a multidomain system, so have virtual domain
structure. Now I have already the list at mydomain.com,
list-request at mydomain.com physically exist in my mail
system, otherwise postfix sent error that the recipient
address was not known.

I already have this at master.cf

`````````````
mailman   unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=FR user=list argv=/etc/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py
  ${nexthop} ${user}
`````````````````

But no luck yet...




From joydeep at infoservices.in  Fri Sep  2 12:01:44 2011
From: joydeep at infoservices.in (J. Bakshi)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 15:31:44 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User unknown in virtual mailbox
	table
Message-ID: <20110902153144.060bab8e@shiva.selfip.org>

Dear list,

This is an operational mail server supporting multidomain and based
on postfix+dovecot+mysql.  The virtual domain related config at main.cf
is as below

[....]
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

#########################################
## virtual domain setting
#########################################
virtual_alias_domains = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-alias-maps.cf,mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-email2email.cf
virtual_gid_maps = static:5000
virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-mailbox-domains.cf
virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-mailbox-maps.cf
virtual_transport = dovecot
dovecot_destination_recipient_limit = 1
virtual_uid_maps = static:5000
[....]
``````````````

I have installed mailman here and to support virtual domain also have
the following at /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py


[....]
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list.mydomain.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'list.mydomain.com'
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPPORT = '25'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['list.infoservices.in']
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'
[....]

and the master.cf has following

[....]
mailman   unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=FR user=list argv=/etc/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py
    ${nexthop} ${user}
[....]

after reloading postfix and mailman I have created a list and also
copy paste the suggested aliases at /etc/aliases and executed "newalias"
command.

If I send a request to listname-request at list.mydomain.com I get an error from
postfix as 

` ` ` ` 
 Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table
` ` ` `

Do I need to create all such an account required by mailman? 

I am confused...... any clue is very much welcome.
TIA 

From joydeep at infoservices.in  Fri Sep  2 12:38:24 2011
From: joydeep at infoservices.in (J. Bakshi)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 16:08:24 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman configuration issue with a
 functionalpostfix server
In-Reply-To: <C96AA9CAE2974C6D9102F42F126424CE@bak>
References: <20110901182233.1973769f@shiva.selfip.org>
	<C96AA9CAE2974C6D9102F42F126424CE@bak>
Message-ID: <20110902160824.350f3b33@shiva.selfip.org>

On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 16:07:34 +0200
"Ruud" <ruud at abuse.nl> wrote:

>  @ donderdag 1 september 2011 14:53 you wrote:
> 
> > Hello list,
> > 
> > This is an open-suse 11.4 box with a postfix server, support
> > multidomain and functional since 2006. 
> > 
> > I have installed mailman here. I have followed the suse README file
> > shipped with this mailman package and done the configuration
> > accordingly.  I have created a list and can sent there subscription
> > request. the system also sent me back the mail having confirmation
> > code. Good.....  A reply to that message do noting and not get any
> > mail after sending reply to that again and again. So completed
> > subscription with web link.     
> > Welcome mail sentarrived. Not bad till now. But when I sent mail to
> > the list, those mails are not distributed... :-( I think there is
> > something missing in postfix ( actually in the manual) that mailman
> > can't sent confirmation as well as distribute the mail to the list.   
> > 
> 
> This sounds like you have forgotten to config all mailman needed
> mailaddresses  into your aliases file like /etc/aliases or what you use for
> the created list.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
I have created a list and also
copy paste the suggested aliases at /etc/aliases and executed "newalias"
command.

If I send a request to listname-request at list.mydomain.com I get an error from
postfix as 

` ` ` ` 
 Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table
` ` ` `

Do I need to create all such account required by mailman? 

I am confused...... any clue is very much welcome.

TIA 

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Sep  2 16:01:39 2011
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 23:01:39 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman configuration issue with a
 functionalpostfix server
In-Reply-To: <20110902160824.350f3b33@shiva.selfip.org>
References: <20110901182233.1973769f@shiva.selfip.org>
	<C96AA9CAE2974C6D9102F42F126424CE@bak>
	<20110902160824.350f3b33@shiva.selfip.org>
Message-ID: <87hb4vjb5o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

J. Bakshi writes:

 > > > I have installed mailman here. I have followed the suse README file
 > > > shipped with this mailman package and done the configuration
 > > > accordingly.

Is the SuSE README file *specifically for virtual domains*?  If not,
it is *very* likely that much of what is in there is simply incorrect
for a virtual domain setup.

Have you read the Mailman FAQ?  If not, you should do so.

You mention Dovecot; this is completely irrelevant to Mailman, as mail
for Mailman lists should follow a different configuration from those
for ordinary users using IMAP or POP to access their mail.  If any
mail for Mailman lists is being processed by Dovecot, something is
wrong with your Postfix configuration.

You mention having Unix users for the list addresses.  Get rid of
these.  Unix users must exist on a real machine, not on a virtual
host.  At best they're irrelevant, almost certainly they're confusing
you, and at worst they can be a security risk.  You are getting "user
unknown" messages because Postfix (or possibly Mailman, but that is
less likely) is misconfigured, not because Unix is.

 > > > I have created a list and can sent there subscription
 > > > request.

For some functions, Mailman requires that a site list name "mailman"
be present.  Unless you have patched Mailman, that list is necessary
and must have that name.  Have you created that list?  (AFAIK this
can't be responsible for "User unknown" errors, though.)

 > I have created a list and also
 > copy paste the suggested aliases at /etc/aliases and executed "newalias"
 > command.

This probably will not be enough, as those aliases are for the real host,
and AFAIK should not be visible on the virtual host(s).  You will need
virtual addresses that redirect list traffic to those aliases.

Have you read the virtual(8) manpage for Postfix and the
VIRTUAL_README?  (The latter may typically be found somewhere like
/usr/share/doc/postfix/VIRTUAL_README; try "locate VIRTUAL_README").

Good luck!

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep  2 15:56:28 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 06:56:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User unknown in virtual
	mailboxtable
In-Reply-To: <20110902153144.060bab8e@shiva.selfip.org>
Message-ID: <PC19520110902065628085776ab9b75@Notebook-09>

J. Bakshi wrote:
>
>This is an operational mail server supporting multidomain and based
>on postfix+dovecot+mysql.  The virtual domain related config at main.cf
>is as below
>
>[....]
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>
>#########################################
>## virtual domain setting
>#########################################
>virtual_alias_domains = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
>virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-alias-maps.cf,mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-email2email.cf
>virtual_gid_maps = static:5000
>virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-mailbox-domains.cf
>virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-mailbox-maps.cf
>virtual_transport = dovecot
>dovecot_destination_recipient_limit = 1
>virtual_uid_maps = static:5000
>[....]
>``````````````
>
>I have installed mailman here and to support virtual domain also have
>the following at /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
>
>
>[....]
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
>
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list.mydomain.com'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'list.mydomain.com'
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
>POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
>DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
>SMTPPORT = '25'
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['list.infoservices.in']
>IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'
>[....]
>
>and the master.cf has following
>
>[....]
>mailman   unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
>  flags=FR user=list argv=/etc/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py
>    ${nexthop} ${user}
>[....]


You are mixing two different methods of delivering mail to Mailman. You
want to use either aliases and virtual alias maps or
postfix_to_mailman.py. These are separate methods and are not
compatible with each other.

Aliases/virtual maps are appropriate in all cases and can generally be
automated with settings such as you have above in mm_cfg.py, however,
you are missing a reference to
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman in virtual_alias_maps in
main.cf.

On the other hand, to use postfix_to_mailman.py which works well only
if you have a dedicated domain for Mailman lists with no non-list
addresses, you put "MTA = None" in mm_cfg.py and remove all the other
Postfix stuff from mm_cfg.py. You also need something in
transport_maps in Postfix to tell Postfix to use the 'mailman'
transport for all mail to the 'list.mydomain.com' (or
'list.infoservices.in') domain. See the comments at the beginning of
postfix_to_mailman.py for additional configuration information.

Note that postfix_to_mailman.py is a third party module officially
unsupported by the GNU Mailman project. If you want to use it, you
should go to whatever entity suggested it to you for support.


>after reloading postfix and mailman I have created a list and also
>copy paste the suggested aliases at /etc/aliases and executed "newalias"
>command.
>
>If I send a request to listname-request at list.mydomain.com I get an error from
>postfix as 
>
>` ` ` ` 
> Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table
>` ` ` `
>
>Do I need to create all such an account required by mailman? 


No. Mailman list addresses should never by local accounts/mailboxes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From joydeep at infoservices.in  Fri Sep  2 16:16:33 2011
From: joydeep at infoservices.in (J. Bakshi)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 19:46:33 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User unknown in virtual
 mailboxtable
In-Reply-To: <PC19520110902065628085776ab9b75@Notebook-09>
References: <20110902153144.060bab8e@shiva.selfip.org>
	<PC19520110902065628085776ab9b75@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <20110902194633.4ccd7658@shiva.selfip.org>

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 06:56:28 -0700
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> J. Bakshi wrote:
> >
> >This is an operational mail server supporting multidomain and based
> >on postfix+dovecot+mysql.  The virtual domain related config at main.cf
> >is as below
> >
> >[....]
> >alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
> >
> >#########################################
> >## virtual domain setting
> >#########################################
> >virtual_alias_domains = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
> >virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-alias-maps.cf,mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-email2email.cf
> >virtual_gid_maps = static:5000
> >virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-mailbox-domains.cf
> >virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-mailbox-maps.cf
> >virtual_transport = dovecot
> >dovecot_destination_recipient_limit = 1
> >virtual_uid_maps = static:5000
> >[....]
> >``````````````
> >
> >I have installed mailman here and to support virtual domain also have
> >the following at /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
> >
> >
> >[....]
> >DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
> >
> >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list.mydomain.com'
> >DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'list.mydomain.com'
> >MTA = 'Postfix'
> >POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
> >POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
> >DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
> >SMTPPORT = '25'
> >add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['list.infoservices.in']
> >IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'
> >[....]
> >
> >and the master.cf has following
> >
> >[....]
> >mailman   unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
> >  flags=FR user=list argv=/etc/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py
> >    ${nexthop} ${user}
> >[....]
> 
> 
> You are mixing two different methods of delivering mail to Mailman. You
> want to use either aliases and virtual alias maps or
> postfix_to_mailman.py. These are separate methods and are not
> compatible with each other.
> 
> Aliases/virtual maps are appropriate in all cases and can generally be
> automated with settings such as you have above in mm_cfg.py, however,
> you are missing a reference to
> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman in virtual_alias_maps in
> main.cf.
> 
> On the other hand, to use postfix_to_mailman.py which works well only
> if you have a dedicated domain for Mailman lists with no non-list
> addresses, you put "MTA = None" in mm_cfg.py and remove all the other
> Postfix stuff from mm_cfg.py. You also need something in
> transport_maps in Postfix to tell Postfix to use the 'mailman'
> transport for all mail to the 'list.mydomain.com' (or
> 'list.infoservices.in') domain. See the comments at the beginning of
> postfix_to_mailman.py for additional configuration information.
> 
> Note that postfix_to_mailman.py is a third party module officially
> unsupported by the GNU Mailman project. If you want to use it, you
> should go to whatever entity suggested it to you for support.
> 
> 

Thanks for your great clarification. Please note I have some progress here
meantime and also some new problem.

[1] I have dedicated domain for mailman, but I have removed the
 postfix_to_mailman.py related part from master.cf

[2] I have added the mailman domain at mydestination.

Now after restarting postfix I can send mail without any error. Though don't know
how logiacl is to add the domain at mydestination. The mm_cfg.py is untouched

Please note there is no /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman here.

# rpm -qal mailman | grep vir
/usr/share/doc/packages/mailman/contrib/virtusertable

Now the problem is I get email error as

``````````````
Command died with status 2:
    "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request typo3". Command output: Failure to
    exec script. WANTED gid 67, GOT gid 65533.
````````````


From joydeep at infoservices.in  Fri Sep  2 16:30:55 2011
From: joydeep at infoservices.in (J. Bakshi)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 20:00:55 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman configuration issue with a
 functionalpostfix server
In-Reply-To: <87hb4vjb5o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20110901182233.1973769f@shiva.selfip.org>
	<C96AA9CAE2974C6D9102F42F126424CE@bak>
	<20110902160824.350f3b33@shiva.selfip.org>
	<87hb4vjb5o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20110902200055.07888a7f@shiva.selfip.org>

On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 23:01:39 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:


> 
> You mention having Unix users for the list addresses.  Get rid of
> these.  Unix users must exist on a real machine, not on a virtual
> host.  At best they're irrelevant, almost certainly they're confusing
> you, and at worst they can be a security risk.  You are getting "user
> unknown" messages because Postfix (or possibly Mailman, but that is
> less likely) is misconfigured, not because Unix is.
> 

No, they are virtual user.


>  > > > I have created a list and can sent there subscription
>  > > > request.
> 
> For some functions, Mailman requires that a site list name "mailman"
> be present.  Unless you have patched Mailman, that list is necessary
> and must have that name.  Have you created that list?  (AFAIK this
> can't be responsible for "User unknown" errors, though.)
>

Yes mailman site is created at the beginning
 
>  > I have created a list and also
>  > copy paste the suggested aliases at /etc/aliases and executed "newalias"
>  > command.
> 
> This probably will not be enough, as those aliases are for the real host,
> and AFAIK should not be visible on the virtual host(s).  You will need
> virtual addresses that redirect list traffic to those aliases.
> 

adding the list domain at mydestinaton at main.cf allows me to send mail
without error. But now a new problem is

```````````
Command died with status 2:
    "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request typo3". Command output: Failure to
    exec script. WANTED gid 67, GOT gid 65533.
````````````

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep  2 16:46:20 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 07:46:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User unknown in
	virtualmailboxtable
In-Reply-To: <20110902194633.4ccd7658@shiva.selfip.org>
Message-ID: <PC19520110902074620016376ab98b7@Notebook-09>

J. Bakshi wrote:

>On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 06:56:28 -0700
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>> J. Bakshi wrote:
>> >
>> >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['list.infoservices.in']
[...]
>[1] I have dedicated domain for mailman, but I have removed the
> postfix_to_mailman.py related part from master.cf
>
>[2] I have added the mailman domain at mydestination.
>
>Now after restarting postfix I can send mail without any error. Though don't know
>how logiacl is to add the domain at mydestination. The mm_cfg.py is untouched


It's fine to have the list domain in mydestination. It simplifies
things and the only reason not to is if it is a virtual domain for
non-Mailman reasons.


>Please note there is no /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman here.


Then there are no lists with hostname 'list.infoservices.in' or you
didn'r run Mailman's bin/genaliases after adding

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['list.infoservices.in']


to mm_cfg.py. However, you now don't want or need that anyway.


>Now the problem is I get email error as
>
>``````````````
>Command died with status 2:
>    "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request typo3". Command output: Failure to
>    exec script. WANTED gid 67, GOT gid 65533.
>````````````


This is a group mismatch error. Postfix is invoking the
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman wrapper with GID 65533 and the wrapper
is configured to expect GID 67.

First, the owner of the /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db file should be
the Mailman user. Postfix will invoke the wrapper with user = the
owner of the file (the .db file) in which it found the alias and group
= that users primary group. This group must match what the wrapper is
compiled or otherwize configured to expect. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/tYA9> for more on group mismatch errors.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From joydeep at infoservices.in  Fri Sep  2 17:07:58 2011
From: joydeep at infoservices.in (J. Bakshi)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 20:37:58 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User unknown in
 virtualmailboxtable
In-Reply-To: <PC19520110902074620016376ab98b7@Notebook-09>
References: <20110902194633.4ccd7658@shiva.selfip.org>
	<PC19520110902074620016376ab98b7@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <20110902203758.42caa3fa@shiva.selfip.org>

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 07:46:20 -0700
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> J. Bakshi wrote:
> 
> >On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 06:56:28 -0700
> >Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> >
> >> J. Bakshi wrote:
> >> >
> >> >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['list.infoservices.in']
> [...]
> >[1] I have dedicated domain for mailman, but I have removed the
> > postfix_to_mailman.py related part from master.cf
> >
> >[2] I have added the mailman domain at mydestination.
> >
> >Now after restarting postfix I can send mail without any error. Though don't know
> >how logiacl is to add the domain at mydestination. The mm_cfg.py is untouched
> 
> 
> It's fine to have the list domain in mydestination. It simplifies
> things and the only reason not to is if it is a virtual domain for
> non-Mailman reasons.
> 
> 
> >Please note there is no /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman here.
> 
> 
> Then there are no lists with hostname 'list.infoservices.in' or you
> didn'r run Mailman's bin/genaliases after adding
> 
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['list.infoservices.in']
> 
> 
> to mm_cfg.py. However, you now don't want or need that anyway.
> 
> 
> >Now the problem is I get email error as
> >
> >``````````````
> >Command died with status 2:
> >    "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request typo3". Command output: Failure to
> >    exec script. WANTED gid 67, GOT gid 65533.
> >````````````
> 
> 
> This is a group mismatch error. Postfix is invoking the
> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman wrapper with GID 65533 and the wrapper
> is configured to expect GID 67.
> 
> First, the owner of the /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db file should be
> the Mailman user. Postfix will invoke the wrapper with user = the
> owner of the file (the .db file) in which it found the alias and group
> = that users primary group. This group must match what the wrapper is
> compiled or otherwize configured to expect. See the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/tYA9> for more on group mismatch errors.
> 


Again many many thanks for your cool clarification. I have executed now

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases and now I have 

-rw-rw---- 1 root mailman 1762 Sep  2 16:57 /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

hope the ownership is not an issue.

regarding /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db permission issue; it is already set to mailman

-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 12288 Sep  2 16:57 /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db

Still group 65533 which is nobody group is called !!!


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep  2 17:20:31 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 08:20:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User unknown
	invirtualmailboxtable
In-Reply-To: <20110902203758.42caa3fa@shiva.selfip.org>
Message-ID: <PC19520110902082031028776ab993e@Notebook-09>

J. Bakshi wrote:

>On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 07:46:20 -0700
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>> J. Bakshi wrote:
>> 
>> >Now after restarting postfix I can send mail without any error. Though don't know
>> >how logiacl is to add the domain at mydestination. The mm_cfg.py is untouched
>> 
>> 
>> It's fine to have the list domain in mydestination. It simplifies
>> things and the only reason not to is if it is a virtual domain for
>> non-Mailman reasons.
[...]
>
>Again many many thanks for your cool clarification. I have executed now
>
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases and now I have 
>
>-rw-rw---- 1 root mailman 1762 Sep  2 16:57 /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>
>hope the ownership is not an issue.

This is OK, but it is not needed and shouldn't be referenced because
the list domain is now local (in mydestination). You can/should remove
the POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS entry from mm_cfg.py and the
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman* files. These should not be
referenced in main.cf.

>
>regarding /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db permission issue; it is already set to mailman
>
>-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 12288 Sep  2 16:57 /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db
>
>Still group 65533 which is nobody group is called !!!


Then I suspect you have Mailman list aliases in some other file owned
by root such as /etc/aliases. You need to remove any list aliases from
all files except /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases*

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From joydeep at infoservices.in  Fri Sep  2 17:39:40 2011
From: joydeep at infoservices.in (J. Bakshi)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 21:09:40 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User unknown
 invirtualmailboxtable
In-Reply-To: <PC19520110902082031028776ab993e@Notebook-09>
References: <20110902203758.42caa3fa@shiva.selfip.org>
	<PC19520110902082031028776ab993e@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <20110902210940.4246b7ca@shiva.selfip.org>

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 08:20:31 -0700
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

<snip>
> >
> >Again many many thanks for your cool clarification. I have executed now
> >
> >/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases and now I have 
> >
> >-rw-rw---- 1 root mailman 1762 Sep  2 16:57 /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> >
> >hope the ownership is not an issue.
</snip>
 
> This is OK, but it is not needed and shouldn't be referenced because
> the list domain is now local (in mydestination). You can/should remove
> the POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS entry from mm_cfg.py and the
> /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman* files. These should not be
> referenced in main.cf.
> 

I like to know here, how can I still continue without using mydestination.
So that minimum tweaking the main.cf to run mailman. I missed the
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman before.

> >
> >regarding /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db permission issue; it is already set to mailman
> >
> >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 12288 Sep  2 16:57 /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db
> >
> >Still group 65533 which is nobody group is called !!!
> 
> 
> Then I suspect you have Mailman list aliases in some other file owned
> by root such as /etc/aliases. You need to remove any list aliases from
> all files except /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases*
> 

I have already cleaned /etc/aliase to removed all the entries, I pasted
there before. Now only /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases has the entries.
Surely I can change the gid to 65533 and run the mailman; even I have already
done that to check the functionality, but it is not a good practice as security
issue is there. And this gid is the only and only one hitch to make it functional.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep  2 18:02:10 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 09:02:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User
	unknowninvirtualmailboxtable
In-Reply-To: <20110902210940.4246b7ca@shiva.selfip.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952011090209021000993446dc6d@Notebook-09>

J. Bakshi wrote:
>
>I like to know here, how can I still continue without using mydestination.
>So that minimum tweaking the main.cf to run mailman. I missed the
>/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman before.


Actually, adding hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases to alias_maps and
adding list.infoservices.in to mydestination is the minimum tweaking
required, except maybe for adding "recipient_delimiter = +" (see
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>).

If you don't want to add list.infoservices.in to mydestination, you
have to add it to virtual_alias_domains and add
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman to virtual_alias_maps.


>> >
>> >regarding /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db permission issue; it is already set to mailman
>> >
>> >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 12288 Sep  2 16:57 /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db
>> >
>> >Still group 65533 which is nobody group is called !!!


What do you get if you run

sudo -u mailman /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post typo3 </dev/null

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From joydeep at infoservices.in  Fri Sep  2 19:39:50 2011
From: joydeep at infoservices.in (joydeep at infoservices.in)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 19:39:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User
	unknowninvirtualmailboxtable
Message-ID: <af43475fddf7e6e1d855598d6f970bb7@infoservices.in>

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 09:02:10 -0700
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> J. Bakshi wrote:
> >
> >I like to know here, how can I still continue without using
mydestination.
> >So that minimum tweaking the main.cf to run mailman. I missed the
> >/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman before.
> 
> 
> Actually, adding hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases to alias_maps and
> adding list.infoservices.in to mydestination is the minimum tweaking
> required, except maybe for adding "recipient_delimiter = +" (see
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>).
> 
> If you don't want to add list.infoservices.in to mydestination, you
> have to add it to virtual_alias_domains and add
> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman to virtual_alias_maps.
> 
> 

Great, now mydestination is not required as appending
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman at virtual_alias_maps
take care of it.

> >> >
> >> >regarding /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db permission issue; it is
already set to mailman
> >> >
> >> >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 12288 Sep  2 16:57
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db
> >> >
> >> >Still group 65533 which is nobody group is called !!!
> 
> 
> What do you get if you run
> 
> sudo -u mailman /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post typo3 </dev/null
> 

No error, just cursor returns


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep  2 23:28:33 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:28:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User
	unknowninvirtualmailboxtable
In-Reply-To: <af43475fddf7e6e1d855598d6f970bb7@infoservices.in>
Message-ID: <PC1952011090214283305840292be69@Notebook-09>

<joydeep at infoservices.in> wrote:

>On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 09:02:10 -0700
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>> J. Bakshi wrote:
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> >regarding /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db permission issue; it is
>already set to mailman
>> >> >
>> >> >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 12288 Sep  2 16:57
>/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db
>> >> >
>> >> >Still group 65533 which is nobody group is called !!!
>> 
>> 
>> What do you get if you run
>> 
>> sudo -u mailman /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post typo3 </dev/null
>> 
>
>No error, just cursor returns


OK. So if you invoke the wrapper manually as user mailman, it doesn't
complain about a group mismatch.

And the owner of aliases.db is mailman, so according to the DELIVERY
RIGHTS section of <http://www.postfix.org/local.8.html>, Postfix
should be invoking the wrapper as mailman.

       Deliveries  to  external  files  and external commands are
       made with the rights of the receiving user on whose behalf
       the  delivery  is made.  In the absence of a user context,
       the local(8) daemon uses the owner rights of the :include:
       file or alias database.  When those files are owned by the
       superuser, delivery is made with the rights specified with
       the default_privs configuration parameter.

Yet, Postfix is executing the pipe as 'nobody', so either it is finding
the alias in some other database owned by root, or delivery is not via
the 'local' transport. What is the complete log message in the Postfix
log for the attempted delivery?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From joydeep at infoservices.in  Sat Sep  3 05:47:34 2011
From: joydeep at infoservices.in (joydeep at infoservices.in)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 05:47:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User
	unknowninvirtualmailboxtable
Message-ID: <227d96988ebe669b7eab98e5f05455ad@infoservices.in>

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:28:33 -0700
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:


> Yet, Postfix is executing the pipe as 'nobody', so either it is finding
> the alias in some other database owned by root, or delivery is not via
> the 'local' transport.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And here you have given the clue.

I have set  SMTPHOST = 'localhost' at
 /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py

and this has solved the issue.

Mark, I am grateful to you as you have given
me a lot of valuable clues through your cool
discussion.

with my best regards


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Sep  3 19:04:19 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 10:04:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User
	unknowninvirtualmailboxtable
In-Reply-To: <227d96988ebe669b7eab98e5f05455ad@infoservices.in>
Message-ID: <PC195201109031004190024f6f0202b@Notebook-09>

<joydeep at infoservices.in> wrote:
>
>I have set  SMTPHOST = 'localhost' at
> /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
>
>and this has solved the issue.


I'm glad your group mismatch problem is solved, but I can assure you
that setting SMTPHOST = 'localhost' in mm_cfg.py is not what solved
it. First of all, this is no different from the Defaults.py setting
and thus didn't change anything. More importantly, SMTPHOST is used by
Mailman only to determine to what host to connect for SMTP to deliver
outgoing mail. It has nothing at all to do with mail delivery TO
Mailman.

When I referred to the 'local' transport, I was refering to the Postfix
module that was actually piping mail to Mailman. I.e. in a Postfix log
entry for delivery to Mailman what you see as see "relay=...".

So I don't know what actually solved your problem. Perhaps you removed
list aliases from /etc/aliases and neglected to run "newaliases" or
"postalias /etc/aliases" until sometime later or you did something
else that solved the problem, but it wasn't just setting SMTPHOST =
'localhost' in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Sun Sep  4 12:19:45 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 17:19:45 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invitation or subscription on behalf list-owner
Message-ID: <4E6350C1.7000906@dutaint.co.id>

Hi there,

I just set up mailman 2.14 integrate with postfix 2.8.2 under Ubuntu
11.04 for may small community to replace my old ecartis (aka listar).

The one that I still struggling is how to send invitation or new member
subscription or password reminder on behalf listname-owner at domain.com so
that when list owner invite or add new member which have no valid
<address> will known at first place.

Is there a way to to change invitation or adding new member on behalf
listname-owner at domain.com?

>From postfix log and mailman bounce log I see as below.

Sep  4 16:20:31 dip13 amavis[9116]: (09116-11) Passed CLEAN, LOCAL
[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1] <mylist-bounces at list.dutaint.com> ->
<syafril.hermansyah at yahoo.com>, Message-ID:
<mailman.0.1315128025.13728.mylist at list.dutaint.com>, mail_id: aJ$
Sep  4 16:20:31 dip13 postfix/smtp[13733]: 692F919C22B7:
to=<syafril.hermansyah at yahoo.com>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024,
delay=5.4, delays=0.04/0.03/0.01/5.4, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0
from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 $
Sep  4 16:20:31 dip13 postfix/qmgr[6484]: 692F919C22B7: removed
Sep  4 16:20:34 dip13 postfix/smtp[13742]: C95D619C2387:
to=<syafril.hermansyah at yahoo.com>,
relay=b.mx.mail.yahoo.com[74.6.136.65]:25, delay=2.5,
delays=0.01/0.02/0.68/1.8, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host
b.mx.mail.yahoo.com[74.6.136.65]$
Sep  4 16:20:34 dip13 postfix/cleanup[13732]: 530D419C2392:
message-id=<20110904092034.530D419C2392 at dip13.dutaint.com>
Sep  4 16:20:34 dip13 postfix/qmgr[6484]: 530D419C2392: from=<>,
size=3613, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Sep  4 16:20:34 dip13 postfix/bounce[13749]: C95D619C2387: sender
non-delivery notification: 530D419C2392
Sep  4 16:20:34 dip13 postfix/qmgr[6484]: C95D619C2387: removed

and mailman bounce log

Sep 04 16:48:08 2011 (4903) mylist: syafril.hermansyah at yahoo.com bounce
score: 1.0



-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah


From michael at newsummer.com  Sat Sep  3 23:27:21 2011
From: michael at newsummer.com (Michael Cooley)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 14:27:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installed, now stumped
Message-ID: <056fdc63690e9bf93273f68dadc3ff10.squirrel@newsummer.com>

With some slight edits to the configure script, I've successfully
installed mailman on my Hostmonster user account. Not knowing where to go
from there, I went into the cgi-bin dir and ran 'admin' from my shell
account. This error showed up in the log:

admin(19369):   File "/home1/ancestr2/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line
106,
admin(19369):     if not request_method.lower() in ['get', 'post', 'head']:
admin(19369): AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower'

I commented out the offending lines (for the hell of it) and the script ran.

I think I need to be pointed to a doc that tells me how to implement the
front-end. What public directory do I need and what do I put into it?

Thanks!

Michael



From michael at newsummer.com  Sat Sep  3 23:58:26 2011
From: michael at newsummer.com (Michael Cooley)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 14:58:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installed, now stumped
In-Reply-To: <056fdc63690e9bf93273f68dadc3ff10.squirrel@newsummer.com>
References: <056fdc63690e9bf93273f68dadc3ff10.squirrel@newsummer.com>
Message-ID: <da7df27927d3de26f578628186ca2723.squirrel@newsummer.com>

I'd understand if mailman cannot be run from a user account. Hostmonster
does provide it, but does not allow shell access to the archive. I need
that for back-up purposes and to integrate my old archive with the
new--and just because I'd expect that kind of access.

How do I do this?

* Find a way to run mailman as a machine user?
* Find instructions to give to Hostmonster to allow archive permissions?
* Find another provider?
* Find another list server that will give me direct access?

I've had no success with the latter.

Thanks for any help. I'd love to get my list back up and running!

-Michael

> With some slight edits to the configure script, I've successfully
> installed mailman on my Hostmonster user account. Not knowing where to go
> from there, I went into the cgi-bin dir and ran 'admin' from my shell
> account. This error showed up in the log:
>
> admin(19369):   File "/home1/ancestr2/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line
> 106,
> admin(19369):     if not request_method.lower() in ['get', 'post',
> 'head']:
> admin(19369): AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower'
>
> I commented out the offending lines (for the hell of it) and the script
> ran.
>
> I think I need to be pointed to a doc that tells me how to implement the
> front-end. What public directory do I need and what do I put into it?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Michael
>
>



From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Sun Sep  4 15:58:57 2011
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 16:58:57 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installed, now stumped
In-Reply-To: <056fdc63690e9bf93273f68dadc3ff10.squirrel@newsummer.com>
References: <056fdc63690e9bf93273f68dadc3ff10.squirrel@newsummer.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1109041651520.3122@data.home>

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011, Michael Cooley wrote:

> With some slight edits to the configure script, I've successfully
> installed mailman on my Hostmonster user account. Not knowing where to go
> from there, I went into the cgi-bin dir and ran 'admin' from my shell
> account. This error showed up in the log:
>
> admin(19369):   File "/home1/ancestr2/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line
> 106,
> admin(19369):     if not request_method.lower() in ['get', 'post', 'head']:
> admin(19369): AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower'
>
> I commented out the offending lines (for the hell of it) and the script ran.

This is not how you're meant to run admin.  It's meant to be called from 
the web.  The lines above show that the script is looking to see whichHTTP 
request method was used, and it's crashing because no request method was 
used.

> I think I need to be pointed to a doc that tells me how to implement the
> front-end. What public directory do I need and what do I put into it?

You should look at the installation manual.  You can read/download it from 
http://list.org/./site.html

If your host is a webhost rather than a VPS (virtual server), you may find 
yourself running into difficulties, particularly with integrating Mailman 
with the mail transport agent.  I don't know anything about Hostmonster 
but others here probably do.

If this is your problem, you're going to have problems with all mailing 
list software in thie regard.

Geoff.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Sep  4 16:59:53 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 07:59:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installed, now stumped
In-Reply-To: <da7df27927d3de26f578628186ca2723.squirrel@newsummer.com>
References: <056fdc63690e9bf93273f68dadc3ff10.squirrel@newsummer.com>
	<da7df27927d3de26f578628186ca2723.squirrel@newsummer.com>
Message-ID: <4E639269.2080504@msapiro.net>

On 9/3/2011 2:58 PM, Michael Cooley wrote:
> I'd understand if mailman cannot be run from a user account. Hostmonster
> does provide it, but does not allow shell access to the archive. I need
> that for back-up purposes and to integrate my old archive with the
> new--and just because I'd expect that kind of access.


Hostmonster may be willing to seed your new archive with your old
archive if you can provide a *nix mbox format file containing the archive.

You can access your list's archive mbox file by first logging in to the
archive with a URL like
<http://www.example.com/mailman/private/LISTNAME> or however that looks
for hostmonster and then retrieving
<http://www.example.com/mailman/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox>.
You use the 'private' archive URL for this even if the archive is public.

Another way to provide backup is to subscribe an address to the list and
just backup the mail received at that address or, if your archive is
public, use one or more services like <http://www.mail-archive.com>.


> How do I do this?
> 
> * Find a way to run mailman as a machine user?


You can't. You have to be an admin of the machine or a VPS in order to
install and run a fully functioning Mailman.


> * Find instructions to give to Hostmonster to allow archive permissions?


They won't because this would allow access to all the archives for all
their customer's lists.


> * Find another provider?


See <http://wiki.list.org/display/COM/Mailman+hosting+services> for
suggestions.


> * Find another list server that will give me direct access?


No Mailman host that hosts more than one customer's lists will give you
this access because it's global.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Sep  4 17:09:19 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 08:09:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invitation or subscription on behalf list-owner
In-Reply-To: <4E6350C1.7000906@dutaint.co.id>
References: <4E6350C1.7000906@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <4E63949F.4020702@msapiro.net>

On 9/4/2011 3:19 AM, Syafril Hermansyah wrote:
> 
> The one that I still struggling is how to send invitation or new member
> subscription or password reminder on behalf listname-owner at domain.com so
> that when list owner invite or add new member which have no valid
> <address> will known at first place.
> 
> Is there a way to to change invitation or adding new member on behalf
> listname-owner at domain.com?


Mailman is designed to send all mail with envelope from
LISTNAME-bounces at ... so that Mailman can process bounces.

If you prefer that all bounces be processed manually by the list owner,
and you control the MTA that delivers to Mailman, you could arrange
aliases or whatever so that mail to -bounces addresses is delivered as
if addressed to -owner.

If you want only some bounces to be handled manually by the list owner,
you would have to modify the source code that generates those messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From michael at newsummer.com  Sun Sep  4 19:23:46 2011
From: michael at newsummer.com (Michael Cooley)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 10:23:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installed, now stumped
In-Reply-To: <4E639269.2080504@msapiro.net>
References: <056fdc63690e9bf93273f68dadc3ff10.squirrel@newsummer.com>
	<da7df27927d3de26f578628186ca2723.squirrel@newsummer.com>
	<4E639269.2080504@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <cf3f763d7ba7519e6b12289bbfb7689f.squirrel@newsummer.com>

Thanks for the replies, guys. I had a mailman account several years ago
with another provider that did provide direct access to the archive, hence
my confusion on the matter.

I like the idea of creating a user for back up. I can pipe the incoming it
to hypermail or some other such thing.

I've also resurrected a simple distribution script I wrote several years
but I'm not sure that I want to go down that road. The archive is only in
mbox/*nix format but that's okay for now.

In any case, thanks for the clarification and suggestions!

-Michael

> On 9/3/2011 2:58 PM, Michael Cooley wrote:
>> I'd understand if mailman cannot be run from a user account. Hostmonster
>> does provide it, but does not allow shell access to the archive. I need
>> that for back-up purposes and to integrate my old archive with the
>> new--and just because I'd expect that kind of access.
>
>
> Hostmonster may be willing to seed your new archive with your old
> archive if you can provide a *nix mbox format file containing the archive.
>
> You can access your list's archive mbox file by first logging in to the
> archive with a URL like
> <http://www.example.com/mailman/private/LISTNAME> or however that looks
> for hostmonster and then retrieving
> <http://www.example.com/mailman/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox>.
> You use the 'private' archive URL for this even if the archive is public.
>
> Another way to provide backup is to subscribe an address to the list and
> just backup the mail received at that address or, if your archive is
> public, use one or more services like <http://www.mail-archive.com>.
>
>
>> How do I do this?
>>
>> * Find a way to run mailman as a machine user?
>
>
> You can't. You have to be an admin of the machine or a VPS in order to
> install and run a fully functioning Mailman.
>
>
>> * Find instructions to give to Hostmonster to allow archive permissions?
>
>
> They won't because this would allow access to all the archives for all
> their customer's lists.
>
>
>> * Find another provider?
>
>
> See <http://wiki.list.org/display/COM/Mailman+hosting+services> for
> suggestions.
>
>
>> * Find another list server that will give me direct access?
>
>
> No Mailman host that hosts more than one customer's lists will give you
> this access because it's global.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>



From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Mon Sep  5 03:27:18 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 08:27:18 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invitation or subscription on behalf list-owner
In-Reply-To: <4E63949F.4020702@msapiro.net>
References: <4E6350C1.7000906@dutaint.co.id> <4E63949F.4020702@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4E642576.1060701@dutaint.co.id>

On 09/04/2011 10:09 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Is there a way to to change invitation or adding new member on behalf
>> listname-owner at domain.com?
> 
> Mailman is designed to send all mail with envelope from
> LISTNAME-bounces at ... so that Mailman can process bounces.
>
> If you prefer that all bounces be processed manually by the list owner,
> and you control the MTA that delivers to Mailman, you could arrange
> aliases or whatever so that mail to -bounces addresses is delivered as
> if addressed to -owner.

No, I only need (mass) invitation, adding new (mass) subscription (and
password reminder) send on behalf list-owner at domain.com while the rest I
let Mailman bounce handler to handle the job.
Base on my experience on old Ecartis, there are a lot of occasion the
the new member <address> are not valid either because the person who
inform him/her are not correct or the list-owner made typo.
I know that sooner or later non-valid member will be automatically
unsubcribe by Mailman bounce handler, but if list-owner known first they
can make correction as soon as possible.
This kind of features will help to make my Mailman more efficient while
using my limited resources.

> If you want only some bounces to be handled manually by the list owner,
> you would have to modify the source code that generates those messages.

I am not programmer, I would prefer other workaround (if any) :-)

I have made/add recipient_bcc_map to handle all mail address to
listname-bounce at domain.com always bcc: to listname-owner at domain.com, but
apparently this setting not working as expected when the receiver MTA
reject the message on smtp level.


-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah




From joydeep at infoservices.in  Sat Sep  3 20:29:21 2011
From: joydeep at infoservices.in (J. Bakshi)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 23:59:21 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User
 unknowninvirtualmailboxtable
In-Reply-To: <PC195201109031004190024f6f0202b@Notebook-09>
References: <227d96988ebe669b7eab98e5f05455ad@infoservices.in>
	<PC195201109031004190024f6f0202b@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <20110903235921.675e2022@shiva.selfip.org>

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011 10:04:19 -0700
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> <joydeep at infoservices.in> wrote:
> >
> >I have set  SMTPHOST = 'localhost' at
> > /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
> >
> >and this has solved the issue.
> 
> 
> I'm glad your group mismatch problem is solved, but I can assure you
> that setting SMTPHOST = 'localhost' in mm_cfg.py is not what solved
> it. First of all, this is no different from the Defaults.py setting
> and thus didn't change anything. More importantly, SMTPHOST is used by
> Mailman only to determine to what host to connect for SMTP to deliver
> outgoing mail. It has nothing at all to do with mail delivery TO
> Mailman.
> 
> When I referred to the 'local' transport, I was refering to the Postfix
> module that was actually piping mail to Mailman. I.e. in a Postfix log
> entry for delivery to Mailman what you see as see "relay=...".
> 
> So I don't know what actually solved your problem. Perhaps you removed
> list aliases from /etc/aliases and neglected to run "newaliases" or
> "postalias /etc/aliases" until sometime later or you did something
> else that solved the problem, but it wasn't just setting SMTPHOST =
> 'localhost' in mm_cfg.py.
> 

Well.. then I am also confused to think what actually solve the issue...
When I first face the gid problem, I have removed the aliases from
/etc/aliases and add hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases at the 
alias section, and not run newaliases any more as suse automatically
add/remove aliases from /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases; I have come to
know this from suse doc and also confirm by checking the file.
Even after all those steps, I faced the gid issue. And now with
SMTPHOST = 'localhost', I don't have it any more. So I am also confused
what solved the issue. Though I am relaxed... the list is working :-)



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Sep  5 07:20:57 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 22:20:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invitation or subscription on behalf list-owner
In-Reply-To: <4E642576.1060701@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <PC195201109042220570125b57906b6@MSAPIRO>

Syafril Hermansyah wrote:

>On 09/04/2011 10:09 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> Is there a way to to change invitation or adding new member on behalf
>>> listname-owner at domain.com?
[...]
>
>No, I only need (mass) invitation, adding new (mass) subscription (and
>password reminder) send on behalf list-owner at domain.com while the rest I
>let Mailman bounce handler to handle the job.


You can't quite get that level of granularity withoud making more
extensive code modifications, but you can set the envelope sender to
listname-owner for all list welcome messages by finding the definition
of the SendSubscribeAck() method in the Deliverer class in
Mailman/Deliverer.py and changing the last line from

        msg.send(self, verp=mm_cfg.VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES)

to

        msg.send(self, verp=mm_cfg.VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES,
                 envsender=self.GetOwnerEmail())

You can set the envelope sender to listname-owner for all invitations
by finding the definition of the InviteNewMember() method in the
MailList class in Mailman/MailList.py and changing the last line from

        msg.send(self)

to

        msg.send(self, envsender=self.GetOwnerEmail())


Password reminders are trickier. In standard GNU Mailman, a user gets a
single reminder for all subscribed lists for a given host. Thus, this
reminder comes from the site list, not from the list(s) to which the
user is subscribed, but normally password reminders don't bounce. If
the address is undeliverable, the user will get delivery disabled and
eventually unsubscribed by normal bounce processing. The only time
this doesn't occur is if the user has set nomail and then the user's
address goes bad. In any case, for various complicated reasons (read
all the comments in Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py), bounces of
password reminders are sent to the owner of the site list.


>Base on my experience on old Ecartis, there are a lot of occasion the
>the new member <address> are not valid either because the person who
>inform him/her are not correct or the list-owner made typo.
>I know that sooner or later non-valid member will be automatically
>unsubcribe by Mailman bounce handler, but if list-owner known first they
>can make correction as soon as possible.


Understood.


[...]
>I have made/add recipient_bcc_map to handle all mail address to
>listname-bounce at domain.com always bcc: to listname-owner at domain.com, but
>apparently this setting not working as expected when the receiver MTA
>reject the message on smtp level.


<http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html> says about recipient_bcc_maps:

   Optional BCC (blind carbon-copy) address lookup tables, indexed by
   recipient address. The BCC address (multiple results are not
   supported) is added when mail enters from outside of Postfix.

I.e., if the mail is accepted by a remote MX and then bounced,
recipient_bcc_maps will be effective as the bounce comes from outside,
but as you observe, if the outgoing message is regected during SMTP,
the bounce does not enter from outside of Postfix so
recipient_bcc_maps is not consulted.

What you could do is change the alias from

LISTNAME-bounces: "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"

to

LISTNAME-bounces: "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME",
     LISTNAME-owner

If you have Mailman/Postfix integration, you could even automate this
by setting POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD in mm_cfg.py to point to a script that
would edit the -bounce aliases appropriately and then invoke
/usr/sbin/postalias.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Sep  5 07:30:32 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 22:30:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User
	unknowninvirtualmailboxtable
In-Reply-To: <20110903235921.675e2022@shiva.selfip.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952011090422303207501478990e@MSAPIRO>

J. Bakshi wrote:
>
>Well.. then I am also confused to think what actually solve the issue...
>When I first face the gid problem, I have removed the aliases from
>/etc/aliases and add hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases at the 
>alias section, and not run newaliases any more as suse automatically
>add/remove aliases from /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases; I have come to
>know this from suse doc and also confirm by checking the file.

It is correct that with MTA = 'Postfix' Mailman automatically runs

/usr/sbin/postalias /path/to/data/aliases

whenever aliases are updated,and likewise

/usr/sbin/postmap /path/to/data/virtual-mailman

if there are POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS.

However it doesn't update /etc/aliases.db. Thus, if you just removed
Mailman's aliases from /etc/aliases and did not run newaliases or
"postalias /etc/aliases", /etc/aliases.db still had the Mailman
aliases and that was the problem. Then at some point, you did update
/etc/aliases.db and that is what fixed the problem.


>Even after all those steps, I faced the gid issue. And now with
>SMTPHOST = 'localhost', I don't have it any more. So I am also confused
>what solved the issue. Though I am relaxed... the list is working :-)


As I said. I'm glad it's working, but you could remove the SMTPHOST =
'localhost' from mm_cfg.py, and it will continue to work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From joydeep at infoservices.in  Mon Sep  5 07:41:12 2011
From: joydeep at infoservices.in (J. Bakshi)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 11:11:12 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix+mailman - User
 unknowninvirtualmailboxtable
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011090422303207501478990e@MSAPIRO>
References: <20110903235921.675e2022@shiva.selfip.org>
	<PC1952011090422303207501478990e@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <20110905111112.194898a0@shiva.selfip.org>

On Sun, 4 Sep 2011 22:30:32 -0700
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> J. Bakshi wrote:
> >
> >Well.. then I am also confused to think what actually solve the issue...
> >When I first face the gid problem, I have removed the aliases from
> >/etc/aliases and add hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases at the 
> >alias section, and not run newaliases any more as suse automatically
> >add/remove aliases from /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases; I have come to
> >know this from suse doc and also confirm by checking the file.
> 
> It is correct that with MTA = 'Postfix' Mailman automatically runs
> 
> /usr/sbin/postalias /path/to/data/aliases
> 
> whenever aliases are updated,and likewise
> 
> /usr/sbin/postmap /path/to/data/virtual-mailman
> 
> if there are POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS.
> 
> However it doesn't update /etc/aliases.db. Thus, if you just removed
> Mailman's aliases from /etc/aliases and did not run newaliases or
> "postalias /etc/aliases", /etc/aliases.db still had the Mailman
> aliases and that was the problem. Then at some point, you did update
> /etc/aliases.db and that is what fixed the problem.
> 
> 
> >Even after all those steps, I faced the gid issue. And now with
> >SMTPHOST = 'localhost', I don't have it any more. So I am also confused
> >what solved the issue. Though I am relaxed... the list is working :-)
> 
> 
> As I said. I'm glad it's working, but you could remove the SMTPHOST =
> 'localhost' from mm_cfg.py, and it will continue to work.
> 
Thanks a lot for all your kind support. Without your suggestion and help,
I might not be able to run the lists as soon as it is now. I appreciate
your kind help to make the list active.

-many many thanks
-with best regards

From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Mon Sep  5 09:35:06 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 14:35:06 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invitation or subscription on behalf list-owner
In-Reply-To: <PC195201109042220570125b57906b6@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201109042220570125b57906b6@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E647BAA.8050107@dutaint.co.id>

On 09/05/2011 12:20 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> You can't quite get that level of granularity withoud making more
> extensive code modifications, but you can set the envelope sender to
> listname-owner for all list welcome messages by finding the definition
> of the SendSubscribeAck() method in the Deliverer class in
> Mailman/Deliverer.py and changing the last line from
> 
>         msg.send(self, verp=mm_cfg.VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES)
> 
> to
> 
>         msg.send(self, verp=mm_cfg.VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES,
>                  envsender=self.GetOwnerEmail())
> 
> You can set the envelope sender to listname-owner for all invitations
> by finding the definition of the InviteNewMember() method in the
> MailList class in Mailman/MailList.py and changing the last line from
> 
>         msg.send(self)
> 
> to
> 
>         msg.send(self, envsender=self.GetOwnerEmail())

Wow, it work as expected, hura :-)
Thank you very much!

> Password reminders are trickier. In standard GNU Mailman, a user gets a
> single reminder for all subscribed lists for a given host. Thus, this
> reminder comes from the site list, not from the list(s) to which the
> user is subscribed, but normally password reminders don't bounce. If
> the address is undeliverable, the user will get delivery disabled and
> eventually unsubscribed by normal bounce processing. The only time
> this doesn't occur is if the user has set nomail and then the user's
> address goes bad. In any case, for various complicated reasons (read
> all the comments in Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py), bounces of
> password reminders are sent to the owner of the site list.

OK, no problem

>    Optional BCC (blind carbon-copy) address lookup tables, indexed by
>    recipient address. The BCC address (multiple results are not
>    supported) is added when mail enters from outside of Postfix.

Understood, thanks.

> I.e., if the mail is accepted by a remote MX and then bounced,
> recipient_bcc_maps will be effective as the bounce comes from outside,
> but as you observe, if the outgoing message is regected during SMTP,
> the bounce does not enter from outside of Postfix so
> recipient_bcc_maps is not consulted.
> 
> What you could do is change the alias from
> 
> LISTNAME-bounces: "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
> 
> to
> 
> LISTNAME-bounces: "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME",
>      LISTNAME-owner
> 
> If you have Mailman/Postfix integration, you could even automate this
> by setting POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD in mm_cfg.py to point to a script that
> would edit the -bounce aliases appropriately and then invoke
> /usr/sbin/postalias.

I have manually changes either on /etc/aliases and
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman, and now all listname-bounce
copied to list-owner <Address> as expected.
Again, thank you for your help Mark.

BTW. What is the proper format of VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN  in
mm_cfg.py (or /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py) when I have multiple
domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah




From martin at black-sheep-research.com  Mon Sep  5 17:41:18 2011
From: martin at black-sheep-research.com (Martin Brampton)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 16:41:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domain problem in post action on admindb forms for
	multi-domain mailman
Message-ID: <4E64ED9E.3060604@black-sheep-research.com>

I'm running Mailman 2.1.13 from the Debian Squeeze repositories (on 
Debian Squeeze) to provide mailing lists across several domains.  The 
domains that are not the primary mailing list domain have 301 redirects 
of URLs such as .../listinfo/xxxx or .../admin/xxxx to the primary domain.

In most cases this works, because the action in the form is relative, 
and the page is showing on the primary domain on account of the 
redirects.  When the form is submitted, the request therefore goes to 
the primary mailman domain.  (Other domains are typically on different 
servers from Mailman, and do not have Mailman installed at all).

However, the .../admindb/xxxx pages seem to have a specific domain in 
the action attribute of the form, and it is the actual domain of the 
mailing list, not the primary domain.  Although the redirect sends the 
post to the mailman server, redirecting a post request loses all the 
data, so nothing happens.

Is there something wrong with my setup?  Is there a way to resolve this 
problem?

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Mon Sep  5 18:58:42 2011
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 17:58:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domain problem in post action on admindb
	forms	for multi-domain mailman
In-Reply-To: <4E64ED9E.3060604@black-sheep-research.com>
References: <4E64ED9E.3060604@black-sheep-research.com>
Message-ID: <20110905165841.GO12921@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 04:41:18PM +0100, Martin Brampton wrote:
> I'm running Mailman 2.1.13 from the Debian Squeeze repositories (on  
> Debian Squeeze) to provide mailing lists across several domains.  The  
> domains that are not the primary mailing list domain have 301 redirects  
> of URLs such as .../listinfo/xxxx or .../admin/xxxx to the primary 
> domain.

Why not just ServerAlias them?

> Is there something wrong with my setup?  Is there a way to resolve this  
> problem?

Or (Reverse)ProxyPass them -- both assuming you're using Apache as
your httpd.

If that's undesirable, VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW may be useful.

-- 
Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often,
and for the same reason.

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Mon Sep  5 19:17:12 2011
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 17:17:12 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domain problem in post action on admindb forms
 for	multi-domain mailman
In-Reply-To: <4E64ED9E.3060604@black-sheep-research.com>
References: <4E64ED9E.3060604@black-sheep-research.com>
Message-ID: <19792E78AA12F14D9C250101F0DCA01B01AC77CB@ELROND.hodgsonfamily.org>

Martin Brampton wrote:

>I'm running Mailman 2.1.13 from the Debian Squeeze repositories (on Debian Squeeze) to provide mailing lists across several domains.  The >domains that are not the primary mailing list domain have 301 redirects of URLs such as .../listinfo/xxxx or .../admin/xxxx to the primary >domain.

>In most cases this works, because the action in the form is relative, and the page is showing on the primary domain on account of the redirects.  >When the form is submitted, the request therefore goes to the primary mailman domain.  (Other domains are typically on different servers >from Mailman, and do not have Mailman installed at all).

So from what you are saying, you are running Mailman in several domains, at the root of the domain (for example, listname at example.com instead of listname at lists.example.com), and example.com is typically hosted off a separate web server?

Instead of using redirects, have you looked at using Mod_Proxy to do the redirection at the backend on the web server hosting domain.com?

Thanks.
Andrew. 

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Sep  5 19:22:38 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 10:22:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domain problem in post action on admindb forms
	formulti-domain mailman
In-Reply-To: <4E64ED9E.3060604@black-sheep-research.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201109051022380250da1119e0@MSAPIRO>

Martin Brampton wrote:

>I'm running Mailman 2.1.13 from the Debian Squeeze repositories (on 
>Debian Squeeze) to provide mailing lists across several domains.  The 
>domains that are not the primary mailing list domain have 301 redirects 
>of URLs such as .../listinfo/xxxx or .../admin/xxxx to the primary domain.


This is the root of your problem. The domains which are not primary
should be defined in the web server as virtual hosts in your web
server.


>In most cases this works, because the action in the form is relative, 
>and the page is showing on the primary domain on account of the 
>redirects.  When the form is submitted, the request therefore goes to 
>the primary mailman domain.  (Other domains are typically on different 
>servers from Mailman, and do not have Mailman installed at all).


Oh. So the other domain's A record points to a different box and it's
that box that redirects it to the Mailman box. Mailman is not designed
to work in that way.


>However, the .../admindb/xxxx pages seem to have a specific domain in 
>the action attribute of the form, and it is the actual domain of the 
>mailing list, not the primary domain.  Although the redirect sends the 
>post to the mailman server, redirecting a post request loses all the 
>data, so nothing happens.
>
>Is there something wrong with my setup?  Is there a way to resolve this 
>problem?


I suggest the following. Using say www.example.com as a domain hosted
on a foreign box, establish a new domain, say list.example.com with an
A record pointing to the Mailman box, and make list.example.com a
virtual host in the web server on the Mailman box.

If this won't work for some reason, or if you prefer, you could look at
Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py on the Mailman host. Find the line

        admindburl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admindb', absolute=1)

in the definition of the main() function. If you change that to

        admindburl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admindb')

it should make the action URL in the forms relative. There are other
occurrences of mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1) in the module,
but they are for non-POST links.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Sep  5 19:32:44 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 10:32:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invitation or subscription on behalf list-owner
In-Reply-To: <4E647BAA.8050107@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <PC195201109051032440718397e773a@MSAPIRO>

Syafril Hermansyah wrote:
>
>BTW. What is the proper format of VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN  in
>mm_cfg.py (or /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py) when I have multiple
>domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?


VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN is not normally required to be set. See
the comments preceding the line

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = None

in Defaults.py for a description of what it does. If it does need to be
set, it doesn't matter how many POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS you have
or what they are because it specifies the domain of the address in the
'to' side of the mapping and all of these should be the same local
domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From martin at black-sheep-research.com  Tue Sep  6 00:20:04 2011
From: martin at black-sheep-research.com (Martin N Brampton)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 23:20:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domain problem in post action on admindb forms
 for multi-domain mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC195201109051022380250da1119e0@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201109051022380250da1119e0@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E654B14.3090707@black-sheep-research.com>

Thanks very much for the various suggestions.  Sorry I evidently didn't 
make it immediately clear that the servers are not all on the same IP 
address.  Use of reverse proxy should work, although I'd prefer to avoid 
loading mod_proxy if possible, to avoid having to think about ensuring 
it is secure.

There is no specific naming scheme in operation in my setup, except that 
the mailman web server is called lists.example.org.  The other domains 
that have mailing lists could have any name, unrelated to the mailman 
domain, and could be at several possible IP addresses.  Mailing lists 
have email addresses that are simply listname at domain.tld or similar.

It doesn't seem too unreasonable to ask for mailman to work in this 
environment, and it very nearly does :)  It doesn't seem too outrageous 
to run all mail services on a single server, and to run several web 
servers, none of which runs mail services at all.  Web servers 
definitely run better without mail, and a single mail server can handle 
a lot of mail.

The simplest and immediately effective (I've done it!) solution is the 
hack to admindb.py.

I also like the subdomain scheme (to avoid hacking mailman), except I 
don't know how to implement it in mailman.  Would the "lists" be added 
to the basic domain name by:

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://lists.%s/'

and would that work across all the uses of URLs?  Would it be necessary 
to knock off the "lists" in the primary domain of lists.example.com by:

DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'example.com'

so as to counteract the "lists" being added by DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN?  Or 
would that have other ramifications?

But I fear a problem then arises at my mailman server, because there is 
a further redirect to the SSL version of the site (because I don't like 
passwords being sent as plain text for anything that matters), and there 
are liable to be problems with the SSL certificate if a variety of 
domains are pointed into an SSL site.

So maybe I should reconsider reverse proxying!


On 05/09/2011 18:22, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Martin Brampton wrote:
>
>> I'm running Mailman 2.1.13 from the Debian Squeeze repositories (on
>> Debian Squeeze) to provide mailing lists across several domains.  The
>> domains that are not the primary mailing list domain have 301 redirects
>> of URLs such as .../listinfo/xxxx or .../admin/xxxx to the primary domain.
>
>
> This is the root of your problem. The domains which are not primary
> should be defined in the web server as virtual hosts in your web
> server.
>
>
>> In most cases this works, because the action in the form is relative,
>> and the page is showing on the primary domain on account of the
>> redirects.  When the form is submitted, the request therefore goes to
>> the primary mailman domain.  (Other domains are typically on different
>> servers from Mailman, and do not have Mailman installed at all).
>
>
> Oh. So the other domain's A record points to a different box and it's
> that box that redirects it to the Mailman box. Mailman is not designed
> to work in that way.
>
>
>> However, the .../admindb/xxxx pages seem to have a specific domain in
>> the action attribute of the form, and it is the actual domain of the
>> mailing list, not the primary domain.  Although the redirect sends the
>> post to the mailman server, redirecting a post request loses all the
>> data, so nothing happens.
>>
>> Is there something wrong with my setup?  Is there a way to resolve this
>> problem?
>
>
> I suggest the following. Using say www.example.com as a domain hosted
> on a foreign box, establish a new domain, say list.example.com with an
> A record pointing to the Mailman box, and make list.example.com a
> virtual host in the web server on the Mailman box.
>
> If this won't work for some reason, or if you prefer, you could look at
> Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py on the Mailman host. Find the line
>
>          admindburl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admindb', absolute=1)
>
> in the definition of the main() function. If you change that to
>
>          admindburl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admindb')
>
> it should make the action URL in the forms relative. There are other
> occurrences of mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1) in the module,
> but they are for non-POST links.
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep  6 01:07:45 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 16:07:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domain problem in post action on admindb
	formsfor multi-domain mailman
In-Reply-To: <4E654B14.3090707@black-sheep-research.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201109051607450046397e749b@MSAPIRO>

Martin N Brampton wrote:
>
>The simplest and immediately effective (I've done it!) solution is the 
>hack to admindb.py.


I'm glad that's working for you. I'm not sure why this is an absolute
URL in the Mailman base. There are many things in Mailman that have
"always been that way", and since I don't know all the history, I
don't always know if they are just anachronisms or if their purpose is
still relevant.


>I also like the subdomain scheme (to avoid hacking mailman), except I 
>don't know how to implement it in mailman.  Would the "lists" be added 
>to the basic domain name by:
>
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://lists.%s/'


No. What you need to do is make sure there is an entry like

addvirtualhost('lists.domain.tld', 'domain.tld')

for each domain.tld. There should already be one perhaps like

addvirtualhost('domain.tld', 'domain.tld') anyway. If there is, just
add 'lists.' to the first argument. If there isn't one, there should
have been so add it now.

Then you need to run

bin/withlist -l -r fix_url LISTNAME -u lists.domain.tld

where domain.tld is the domain of the list. You could create a simple
shell script to do this for all lists.



>and would that work across all the uses of URLs?  Would it be necessary 
>to knock off the "lists" in the primary domain of lists.example.com by:
>
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'example.com'
>
>so as to counteract the "lists" being added by DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN?  Or 
>would that have other ramifications?


No. If you add the 'lists.' to the hostnames in add_virtualhost, you
don't have to worry about the lists in the Mailman server's domain.
Presumably they are already accounted for with the existing
DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) and wouldn't
change.



>But I fear a problem then arises at my mailman server, because there is 
>a further redirect to the SSL version of the site (because I don't like 
>passwords being sent as plain text for anything that matters), and there 
>are liable to be problems with the SSL certificate if a variety of 
>domains are pointed into an SSL site.


Well part of this is handled by setting the scheme in
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN to https, but the certificate issue is probably
going to be a deal breaker.


>So maybe I should reconsider reverse proxying!


Quite possibly so. That's beyond my area of expertise so others will
have to advise on that.

See the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9>,
<http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9> and perhaps others for more detail on
add_virtualhost and fix_url.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Tue Sep  6 03:02:48 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 08:02:48 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VIrtual_Mailman_Local_Domain ( was Re: Invitation
 or subscription on behalf list-owner)
In-Reply-To: <PC195201109051032440718397e773a@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201109051032440718397e773a@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E657138.5070106@dutaint.co.id>

On 09/06/2011 12:32 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN is not normally required to be set. See
> the comments preceding the line

The wording text said:
# Whatever string value you set will be literally appended with an '@' #
to the listaddress local parts on the right hand side.

>From my trial and error putting up domain on
VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN affect the filling text on # LOOP ADDRESSES
START section on /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

My problem in the past related to this LOOP ADDRESSES, when the right
hand side have empty domain name, all posting has rejected because the
domain part change/convert to whatever domain I put on
VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN.

If I put empty (none), it would appended with @localhost which rejected
by my helo_access checker protection :-(.
The problem is if I put more than one domains such
VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'list.example.com', 'others.domain.com',
etc.domain.com

makes error while generate aliases
$ sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases


-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah




From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Tue Sep  6 03:13:56 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 08:13:56 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VIrtual_Mailman_Local_Domain ( was Re:
 Invitation or subscription on behalf list-owner)
In-Reply-To: <4E657138.5070106@dutaint.co.id>
References: <PC195201109051032440718397e773a@MSAPIRO>
	<4E657138.5070106@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <4E6573D4.9040208@dutaint.co.id>

On 09/06/2011 08:02 AM, Syafril Hermansyah wrote:
> On 09/06/2011 12:32 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN is not normally required to be set. See
>> the comments preceding the line
> 
> The wording text said:
> # Whatever string value you set will be literally appended with an '@' #
> to the listaddress local parts on the right hand side.
> 
>>From my trial and error putting up domain on
> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN affect the filling text on # LOOP ADDRESSES
> START section on /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> 
> My problem in the past related to this LOOP ADDRESSES, when the right
> hand side have empty domain name, all posting has rejected because the
> domain part change/convert to whatever domain I put on
> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN.
> 
> If I put empty (none), it would appended with @localhost which rejected
> by my helo_access checker protection :-(.

Sorry, the correct error is "user not found or something like that".

> The problem is if I put more than one domains such
> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'list.example.com', 'others.domain.com',
> etc.domain.com
> 
> makes error while generate aliases
> $ sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases


-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep  6 05:06:42 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 20:06:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VIrtual_Mailman_Local_Domain ( was Re:
	Invitationor subscription on behalf list-owner)
In-Reply-To: <4E657138.5070106@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <PC195201109052006420406ed0fe780@MSAPIRO>

Syafril Hermansyah wrote:
>
>The wording text said:
># Whatever string value you set will be literally appended with an '@' #
>to the listaddress local parts on the right hand side.


Correct.


>>From my trial and error putting up domain on
>VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN affect the filling text on # LOOP ADDRESSES
>START section on /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman


It affects every address in /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman. If
you didn't see the effect on all addresses, it's because you didn't
run bin/genaliases after setting VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN.


>My problem in the past related to this LOOP ADDRESSES, when the right
>hand side have empty domain name, all posting has rejected because the
>domain part change/convert to whatever domain I put on
>VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN.
>
>If I put empty (none), it would appended with @localhost which rejected
>by my helo_access checker protection :-(.


I don't understand. If you just don't set VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN
at all, i.e.accept the default setting of None, no domain information
at all is appended to the "to" addresses. If this is not what you see,
leave it out of mm_cfg.py and run bin/genaliases and look at the
result after genaliases.


Here's an example.

In mm_cfg.py I have

MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['grizz.org', 'msapiro.net']

The beginning of data/virtual-mailman has (with comments removed)

mailman-loop at grizz.org  mailman-loop
mailman-loop at msapiro.net        mailman-loop
gpc-website at grizz.org              gpc-website
gpc-website-admin at grizz.org        gpc-website-admin
...

This tells Postfix that the virtual address mailman-loop at grizz.org maps
to the address mailman-loop, the virtual address
mailman-loop at msapiro.net maps to the address mailman-loop, the virtual
address gpc-website at grizz.org maps to the address gpc-website, the
virtual address gpc-website-admin at grizz.org maps to the address
gpc-website-admin and so forth.

These "to" addresses are unqualified so Postfix treats them (assuming
the default append_at_myorigin = yes) as though they are @$myorigin or
(again assuming the default) @$myhostname. This should be a locally
deliverable domain so that the corresponding aliases

mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
gpc-website:             "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post
gpc-website"
gpc-website-admin:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin
gpc-website"

are effective for those addresses.

If for some reason in your Postfix configuration, myorigin is set to
some value which is not a locally deliverable domain, you then need to
append a domain to the "to" addresses in virtual-mailman. This may be
localhost or some other domain. For example. if you set

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'localhost'

then all the "to" addresses in virtual-mailman become like

mailman-loop at grizz.org  mailman-loop at localhost
mailman-loop at msapiro.net        mailman-loop at localhost
gpc-website at grizz.org              gpc-website at localhost
gpc-website-admin at grizz.org        gpc-website-admin at localhost

The intent is to add qualification so they become local addresses if
the bare name is not understood to be in a local domain.

If bare names such as mailman-loop, gpc-website, gpc-website-admin, etc
are understood to be local, VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN should be set
to None (the default). If not, VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN should be
set to one and only one of the domains in Postfix's mydestination


>The problem is if I put more than one domains such
>VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'list.example.com', 'others.domain.com',
>etc.domain.com
>
>makes error while generate aliases
>$ sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases


That's because

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'list.example.com', 'others.domain.com',
etc.domain.com

is not valid Python, and even if you were to make it a valid list like

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = ['list.example.com',
'others.domain.com', etc.domain.com]

It would make no sense.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From joydeep at infoservices.in  Wed Sep  7 08:08:07 2011
From: joydeep at infoservices.in (J. Bakshi)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 11:38:07 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to create unsubscribe,
	archive etc link at footer ?
Message-ID: <20110907113807.0bb22ca2@shiva.selfip.org>

Dear list,

How can I create archive list link, user unsubscribe link etc as can be seen
at all the footer of this mailing list itself ?

TIA

From NIKkurer at yandex.ru  Wed Sep  7 08:54:06 2011
From: NIKkurer at yandex.ru (NIKkurer at yandex.ru)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:54:06 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrate mailman to new server
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108251303370734ff5f09c3@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <596111315378446@web84.yandex.ru>

26.08.11, 00:03, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net>:

| ?NIKKurer wrote:
|| But coming on http://newbie.domain.com/mailman I get to http://rabbit.domain.com/mailman/listinfo
||
|| Could you help me resolve this problem?
| ?Look at your web server's configuration file(s). You probably have
| ?something like
|
| ?RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ ?http://rabbit.domain.com/mailman/listinfo
|
| ?This should be
|
| ?RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ ?/mailman/listinfo
|
| ?instead.
|

Thanks for your answer Mark.
You were right, there was such string
/etc/httpd/conf/confs/mailman.conf:RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://rabbit.domain.com/mailman/listinfo
I'm sorry, for so stupid question :-[

P.S.: I found more detailed guide on migration mailman to new server: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/567 It helps me to solve another problem with that migration.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep  8 03:18:44 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 18:18:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to create unsubscribe,
 archive etc link at footer ?
In-Reply-To: <20110907113807.0bb22ca2@shiva.selfip.org>
References: <20110907113807.0bb22ca2@shiva.selfip.org>
Message-ID: <4E6817F4.1050904@msapiro.net>

On 9/6/2011 11:08 PM, J. Bakshi wrote:
> Dear list,
> 
> How can I create archive list link, user unsubscribe link etc as can be seen
> at all the footer of this mailing list itself ?
> 
> TIA
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/user%40example.com


The above footer which contains what you ask and more is created by
putting the following in Non-digest options -> msg_footer

------------------------------------------------------
%(real_name)s mailing list %(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
%(web_page_url)slistinfo/%(_internal_name)s
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: %(user_optionsurl)s

Digest options -> digest_footer is similar, but doesn't contain the last
line because the %(user_optionsurl)s replacement requires
"personalization" and that is only available for messages, not digests.

You could put

Unsubscribe: %(web_page_url)soptions/%(_internal_name)s

in digest footer to get the address of the options login page without
the users email address.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/UYA9> for information on
personalization.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep  8 04:04:28 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 19:04:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrate mailman to new server
In-Reply-To: <596111315378446@web84.yandex.ru>
References: <596111315378446@web84.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <4E6822AC.9050207@msapiro.net>

On 9/6/2011 11:54 PM, NIKkurer at yandex.ru wrote:
> 
> Thanks for your answer Mark.
> You were right, there was such string
> /etc/httpd/conf/confs/mailman.conf:RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://rabbit.domain.com/mailman/listinfo
> I'm sorry, for so stupid question :-[
> 
> P.S.: I found more detailed guide on migration mailman to new server: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/567 It helps me to solve another problem with that migration.


No problem. Thanks for the feedback and the debian link. I've added it
to the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Fri Sep  9 16:26:11 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 21:26:11 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VIrtual_Mailman_Local_Domain ( was Re:
 Invitationor subscription on behalf list-owner)
In-Reply-To: <PC195201109052006420406ed0fe780@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201109052006420406ed0fe780@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E6A2203.3060402@dutaint.co.id>

On 09/06/2011 10:06 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

---
Sorry for long delay response, I have problem with my postfix log
(/var/log/mail.log) which have the date stamp differ from current local
time, but while trying to fixed it up makes /mail.log no longer update :-(
---

>> >From my trial and error putting up domain on
>> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN affect the filling text on # LOOP ADDRESSES
>> START section on /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> 
> 
> It affects every address in /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman. If
> you didn't see the effect on all addresses, it's because you didn't
> run bin/genaliases after setting VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN.

Oops you're right, I just check again to
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman, it does affect all addresses
there not merely LOOP ADDRESSES, sorry.

> If for some reason in your Postfix configuration, myorigin is set to
> some value which is not a locally deliverable domain, you then need to
> append a domain to the "to" addresses in virtual-mailman. This may be
> localhost or some other domain. For example. if you set

I use myorigin = /etc/hostname

and after set VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = None and run
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases I got  in virtual-mailman


mailman-loop at list.dutaint.com   mailman-loop
mailman-loop at dip13.dutaint.com  mailman-loop

# STANZA START: mylist
# CREATED: Tue Sep  6 12:54:05 2011

mylist at list.dutaint.com              mylist at list.dutaint.com
mylist-admin at list.dutaint.com        mylist-admin at list.dutaint.com
mylist-bounces at list.dutaint.com      mylist-bounces at list.dutaint.com,
mylist-confirm at list.dutaint.com      mylist-confirm at list.dutaint.com
....

while /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases consist

# The ultimate loop stopper address
mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Fri Sep  9 20:55:34 2011
mailman:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
....

this kind of aliases makes posting not working, the error said

DBB8E2C238A     3104 Fri Sep  9 17:26:32  syafril at dutaint.co.id
                                                     (user unknown)
   |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"@dip13.dutaint.com

as you see there is "@dip13.dutaint.com appended

> The intent is to add qualification so they become local addresses if
> the bare name is not understood to be in a local domain.

Yeah it should be like that, but I found that my problem is because I
used all domain as virtual domain.
I have virtual_alias_maps to forward mail address to certain address
being redirecting to my account on different mailserver, see

http://www.postfix.org/VIRTUAL_README.html

section Mail forwarding domains.

I follow suggestion on this page
----
Mailing lists
...
There is one major limitation: virtual aliases and virtual mailboxes
can't directly deliver to mailing list managers such as majordomo. The
solution is to set up virtual aliases that direct virtual addresses to
the local delivery agent:

    /etc/postfix/main.cf:
        virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual

    /etc/postfix/virtual:
        listname-request at example.com listname-request
        listname at example.com         listname
        owner-listname at example.com   owner-listname

    /etc/aliases:
        listname: "|/some/where/majordomo/wrapper ..."
        owner-listname: ...
        listname-request: ...

And after putting complete address (right hand site of @) mailman
working as expected.

>> The problem is if I put more than one domains such
>> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'list.example.com', 'others.domain.com',
>> etc.domain.com
>>
>> makes error while generate aliases
>> $ sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases
> 
> 
> That's because
> 
> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'list.example.com', 'others.domain.com',
> etc.domain.com
> 
> is not valid Python, and even if you were to make it a valid list like
> 
> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = ['list.example.com',
> 'others.domain.com', etc.domain.com]

Still no go.
While run $ sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases I got error

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 122, in <module>
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 112, in main
    MTA.create(mlist, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 237, in create
    _do_create(mlist, VIRTFILE, _addvirtual)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 219, in _do_create
    func(mlist, fp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 127, in _addvirtual
    loopdest += '@' + mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN
TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'list' objects

BTW. What is the purpose of  DEB_LISTMASTER?

On postfix-to-mailman.py mentioned as

# This script is meant to be called as a postfix transport pipe.

# It catches all mail to a virtual domain, eg "lists.example.com".  It
# looks at the recipient for each mail message and decides if the mail
# is addressed to a valid list or not, and optionally bounces the
# message with a helpful suggestion if it's not addressed to a
# list. It decides if it is a posting, a list command, or mail to the
# list administrator, by checking for the -admin, -owner, -request,
# -join, -leave, -subscribe and -unsubscribe addresses. It will
# recognize a list as soon as the list is created, there is no need to
# add _any_ aliases for any list.  It recognizes mail to postmaster,
# abuse and mailer-daemon, and routes those mails to DEB_LISTMASTER as
# defined in mm_cfg.py

But I didn't see it's working (I expect all bounce distribution mail
will copied to postmaster@$myhostname) since I put
DEB_LISTMASTER = postmaster at dip13.dutaint.com

but it does not.

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah



From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep  9 20:01:51 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 11:01:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VIrtual_Mailman_Local_Domain ( was Re:
	Invitationorsubscription on behalf list-owner)
In-Reply-To: <4E6A2203.3060402@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <PC195201109091101510625605218e4@MSAPIRO>

Syafril Hermansyah wrote:

>On 09/06/2011 10:06 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>and after set VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = None and run
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases I got  in virtual-mailman
>
>
>mailman-loop at list.dutaint.com   mailman-loop
>mailman-loop at dip13.dutaint.com  mailman-loop
>
># STANZA START: mylist
># CREATED: Tue Sep  6 12:54:05 2011
>
>mylist at list.dutaint.com              mylist at list.dutaint.com
>mylist-admin at list.dutaint.com        mylist-admin at list.dutaint.com
>mylist-bounces at list.dutaint.com      mylist-bounces at list.dutaint.com,
>mylist-confirm at list.dutaint.com      mylist-confirm at list.dutaint.com
>....


I don't see how this is possible. If you run bin/genaliases, it should
recreate data/aliases and data/virtual-mailman (and the associated .db
files) from empty, and if VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = None, there
should be no "@domain" on the right hand side of any of the entries.
It should not be possible that the mailman-loop addresses are
unqualified and list addresses are qualified immediately after running
genaliases.

Do you possibly have more that one data/ directory, e.g.,
/usr/lib/mailman/data/ as well as /var/lib/mailman/data/?


>while /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases consist
>
># The ultimate loop stopper address
>mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
>
># STANZA START: mailman
># CREATED: Fri Sep  9 20:55:34 2011
>mailman:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>mailman-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>....


I also note that the timestamp on the mailman list above is "Fri Sep  9
20:55:34 2011" while that on the mylist list in virtual-mailman is
"Tue Sep  6 12:54:05 2011". This is additional evidence that the
data/virtual-mailman you are looking at above is not the one updated
by genaliases.


>this kind of aliases makes posting not working, the error said
>
>DBB8E2C238A     3104 Fri Sep  9 17:26:32  syafril at dutaint.co.id
>                                                     (user unknown)
>   |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"@dip13.dutaint.com
>
>as you see there is "@dip13.dutaint.com appended
>
>> The intent is to add qualification so they become local addresses if
>> the bare name is not understood to be in a local domain.
>
>Yeah it should be like that, but I found that my problem is because I
>used all domain as virtual domain.
>I have virtual_alias_maps to forward mail address to certain address
>being redirecting to my account on different mailserver, see
>
>http://www.postfix.org/VIRTUAL_README.html
>
>section Mail forwarding domains.
>
>I follow suggestion on this page
>----
>Mailing lists
>...
>There is one major limitation: virtual aliases and virtual mailboxes
>can't directly deliver to mailing list managers such as majordomo. The
>solution is to set up virtual aliases that direct virtual addresses to
>the local delivery agent:
>
>    /etc/postfix/main.cf:
>        virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
>
>    /etc/postfix/virtual:
>        listname-request at example.com listname-request
>        listname at example.com         listname
>        owner-listname at example.com   owner-listname
>
>    /etc/aliases:
>        listname: "|/some/where/majordomo/wrapper ..."
>        owner-listname: ...
>        listname-request: ...
>
>And after putting complete address (right hand site of @) mailman
>working as expected.
>
>>> The problem is if I put more than one domains such
>>> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'list.example.com', 'others.domain.com',
>>> etc.domain.com
>>>
>>> makes error while generate aliases
>>> $ sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases
>> 
>> 
>> That's because
>> 
>> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'list.example.com', 'others.domain.com',
>> etc.domain.com
>> 
>> is not valid Python, and even if you were to make it a valid list like
>> 
>> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = ['list.example.com',
>> 'others.domain.com', etc.domain.com]
>
>Still no go.


Of course it doesn't work. You left out the next line of my statement
above, namely "It would make no sense."


>While run $ sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases I got error
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 122, in <module>
>    main()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 112, in main
>    MTA.create(mlist, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 237, in create
>    _do_create(mlist, VIRTFILE, _addvirtual)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 219, in _do_create
>    func(mlist, fp)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 127, in _addvirtual
>    loopdest += '@' + mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN
>TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'list' objects
>
>BTW. What is the purpose of  DEB_LISTMASTER?


Please see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.



>On postfix-to-mailman.py mentioned as
>
># This script is meant to be called as a postfix transport pipe.
>
># It catches all mail to a virtual domain, eg "lists.example.com".  It
># looks at the recipient for each mail message and decides if the mail
># is addressed to a valid list or not, and optionally bounces the
># message with a helpful suggestion if it's not addressed to a
># list. It decides if it is a posting, a list command, or mail to the
># list administrator, by checking for the -admin, -owner, -request,
># -join, -leave, -subscribe and -unsubscribe addresses. It will
># recognize a list as soon as the list is created, there is no need to
># add _any_ aliases for any list.  It recognizes mail to postmaster,
># abuse and mailer-daemon, and routes those mails to DEB_LISTMASTER as
># defined in mm_cfg.py
>
>But I didn't see it's working (I expect all bounce distribution mail
>will copied to postmaster@$myhostname) since I put
>DEB_LISTMASTER = postmaster at dip13.dutaint.com
>
>but it does not.


Please note that postfix_to_mailman.py is a third party module
officially unsupported by the GNU Mailman project. Further, it is an
alternative to delivery via virtual alias maps and aliases and the two
methods are incompatible.

I am completely lost in trying to understand your configuration, To
help further, I would need to see the complete contents of mm_cfg.py
and the output from 'postconf -n'. Then I will undoubtedly have
additional questions.

Also, I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with
virtual-mailman. but things like

mylist at list.dutaint.com              mylist at list.dutaint.com

make no sense as they say to map the virtual address
mylist at list.dutaint.com to itself. If Postfix knows how to deliver to
mylist at list.dutaint.com, the virtual mapping is unnecessary and if it
doesn't, mapping the address to itself doesn't help.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Mon Sep 12 02:41:44 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 07:41:44 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VIrtual_Mailman_Local_Domain ( was Re:
 Invitationorsubscription on behalf list-owner)
In-Reply-To: <PC195201109091101510625605218e4@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201109091101510625605218e4@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E6D5548.3010903@dutaint.co.id>

On 09/10/2011 01:01 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I don't see how this is possible. If you run bin/genaliases, it should
> recreate data/aliases and data/virtual-mailman (and the associated .db
> files) from empty, and if VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = None, there
> should be no "@domain" on the right hand side of any of the entries.
> It should not be possible that the mailman-loop addresses are
> unqualified and list addresses are qualified immediately after running
> genaliases.
> 
> Do you possibly have more that one data/ directory, e.g.,
> /usr/lib/mailman/data/ as well as /var/lib/mailman/data/?

Oops my fault, I still use my old setting.
After revert back to default setting I got

# LOOP ADDRESSES START
mailman-loop at dip13.dutaint.com	mailman-loop
mailman-loop at list.dutaint.com	mailman-loop
# LOOP ADDRESSES END

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Fri Sep  9 21:31:17 2011
mailman at dip13.dutaint.com              mailman
mailman-admin at dip13.dutaint.com        mailman-admin
mailman-bounces at dip13.dutaint.com      mailman-bounces
mailman-confirm at dip13.dutaint.com      mailman-confirm
mailman-join at dip13.dutaint.com         mailman-join
mailman-leave at dip13.dutaint.com        mailman-leave
mailman-owner at dip13.dutaint.com        mailman-owner
mailman-request at dip13.dutaint.com      mailman-request
mailman-subscribe at dip13.dutaint.com    mailman-subscribe
mailman-unsubscribe at dip13.dutaint.com  mailman-unsubscribe
# STANZA END: mailman

# STANZA START: mylist
# CREATED: Sun Sep 11 00:06:33 2011
mylist at list.dutaint.com              mylist
mylist-admin at list.dutaint.com        mylist-admin
mylist-bounces at list.dutaint.com      mylist-bounces
mylist-confirm at list.dutaint.com      mylist-confirm
mylist-join at list.dutaint.com         mylist-join
mylist-leave at list.dutaint.com        mylist-leave
mylist-owner at list.dutaint.com        mylist-owner
mylist-request at list.dutaint.com      mylist-request
mylist-subscribe at list.dutaint.com    mylist-subscribe
mylist-unsubscribe at list.dutaint.com  mylist-unsubscribe
# STANZA END: mylist

And the list working fine as it should.

> I also note that the timestamp on the mailman list above is "Fri Sep  9
> 20:55:34 2011" while that on the mylist list in virtual-mailman is
> "Tue Sep  6 12:54:05 2011". This is additional evidence that the
> data/virtual-mailman you are looking at above is not the one updated
> by genaliases.

Yeah, another fault from me, sorry.
I start compose reply before rebuilt my postfix (I need it to solved
problem with postfix log not update), and continue after rebuilt the
postfix (and mailman).

>> this kind of aliases makes posting not working, the error said
>>
>> DBB8E2C238A     3104 Fri Sep  9 17:26:32  syafril at dutaint.co.id
>>                                                     (user unknown)
>>   |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"@dip13.dutaint.com
>>
>> as you see there is "@dip13.dutaint.com appended

I found the source of this problem, it is because I put in postfix's main.cf

virtual_alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

but after commented it out, and keep

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,
	hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

It's working fine.

>>> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = ['list.example.com',
>>> 'others.domain.com', etc.domain.com]
>>
>> Still no go.
> 
> 
> Of course it doesn't work. You left out the next line of my statement
> above, namely "It would make no sense."

Ups, OK then :-)

>> BTW. What is the purpose of  DEB_LISTMASTER?
> 
> Please see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.

> Please note that postfix_to_mailman.py is a third party module
> officially unsupported by the GNU Mailman project. Further, it is an
> alternative to delivery via virtual alias maps and aliases and the two
> methods are incompatible.

Ok, thanks for the explanation.

> I am completely lost in trying to understand your configuration, To
> help further, I would need to see the complete contents of mm_cfg.py
> and the output from 'postconf -n'. Then I will undoubtedly have
> additional questions.

Sorry to make you confused, my apologies.
My mailman now working fine, I can add any new list without problems.
Thanks for your help.




-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah




From rigo222 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 12 01:16:29 2011
From: rigo222 at hotmail.com (Remy .RIGO. N.)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 19:16:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail delivery failed
Message-ID: <SNT107-W12F845857234C886A5795FEE030@phx.gbl>


Hello,
I need help please. I am the administrator of a mailing list on Mailman 2.1.9 . It's been 3-4 days, mails are not being delivered. Not mine, or anyone else from the list. They are not held for approval by the admin, and no message or error is being sent. The emails just disappear once I hit SEND.
I checked all the options of the mailing list, to which I am the only one who has access, and found nothing that could prevent the messages from going through in or out.

Can anyone help? I know very little about computers and codes, so please be patient and baby-talk lol
~ R?my .RIGO. Nassar ~ 		 	   		  

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Sep 12 14:39:48 2011
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 14:39:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail delivery failed
In-Reply-To: <SNT107-W12F845857234C886A5795FEE030@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT107-W12F845857234C886A5795FEE030@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20110912123948.GG20592@charite.de>

* Remy .RIGO. N. <rigo222 at hotmail.com>:
> 
> Hello,

> I need help please. I am the administrator of a mailing list on Mailman
> 2.1.9 . It's been 3-4 days, mails are not being delivered. Not mine, or
> anyone else from the list. They are not held for approval by the admin,
> and no message or error is being sent. The emails just disappear once I
> hit SEND.

Are you the box's system admin? Try restarting mailman's queuerunner

/etc/init.d/mailman restart

or just restart the server.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep 13 01:24:31 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:24:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail delivery failed
In-Reply-To: <20110912123948.GG20592@charite.de>
References: <SNT107-W12F845857234C886A5795FEE030@phx.gbl>
	<20110912123948.GG20592@charite.de>
Message-ID: <4E6E94AF.5070000@msapiro.net>

On 9/12/2011 5:39 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> * Remy .RIGO. N. <rigo222 at hotmail.com>:
> 
>> I need help please. I am the administrator of a mailing list on Mailman
>> 2.1.9 . It's been 3-4 days, mails are not being delivered. Not mine, or
>> anyone else from the list. They are not held for approval by the admin,
>> and no message or error is being sent. The emails just disappear once I
>> hit SEND.
> 
> Are you the box's system admin? Try restarting mailman's queuerunner
> 
> /etc/init.d/mailman restart
> 
> or just restart the server.


Also, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>, but if this is a
hosted Mailman, you will need to contact the people responsible for the
host server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From paulweinx at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 14 13:58:46 2011
From: paulweinx at hotmail.com (Paul Weinx)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 04:58:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-to-postfix.py Illegal Invocation errors
 when i put the correct transport
Message-ID: <32462307.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hi friends.
I have a Postfix to handle virtual domains and users, and it works
perfectly. I have Mailman installed and removed about 30 times, trying
different configurations, but I'm desperate, because I only work in a way
that I describe below.

Suppose my domain is domain.com, and I want to use lists.domain.com
exclusively for lists (If it does not work even with mailman at domain.com, I
do not even want to imagine what I must do to domain2.com, domain3.com,
etc). All dns are pointing to my server Ubuntu perfectly.

When i put in the / etc / mailman / transport file:
lists.domain.com mailman:
and try to send an email to mailman at domain.com, the mail.log drop me the
next error:

Sep 14 11:59:46 ws postfix / pipe [20487]: DB5333017C4: to =
<mailman at lists.domain.com>, <mailman at domain.com> orig_to =, relay = mailman,
delay = 0.5, delays = 0.49 / 0/0/0.01, dsn = 5.3.0, status = bounced
(command line usage error. Command output: Illegal invocation: '/ usr / lib
/ mailman / bin / postfix-to-mailman.py lists.domain.com mailman argv = /
usr / bin / spamc-f-e / usr / sbin / sendmail-oi-f paulweinx at hotmail.com -
mailman at lists.domain.com 'Did you forget to September
mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1 in main.cf ?)

No matter if i place in mm_cfg.py: MTA = 'Postfix' or MTA = 'None', or if
the file main.cf mydestination postfix leave empty, or put mydestination =
lists.domain.com, relay_domains or thousands of combinations I could think.

The only way that mailman knows that I am sending an email (and if you do it
from localhost moderation remains pending, although this is less important
to me) is putting in the transport file, the following:
domain.com mailman:

But in this way, every time I send an email to some virtual mailbox, try
looking in the name of any list, and therefore ceases to function incoming
mail!!

Please, I need your help. When I was a dedicated server and Virtuozzo Plesk,
with just 2 clicks and I was so dominos email for all Mailman for lists as I
wanted, but this server do not have any "magic" tools.

Thanks
-- 
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/mailman-to-postfix.py-Illegal-Invocation-errors-when-i-put-the-correct-transport-tp32462307p32462307.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 14 17:26:23 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 08:26:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-to-postfix.py Illegal Invocation
	errorswhen i put the correct transport
In-Reply-To: <32462307.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201109140826230312465b0e0f@MSAPIRO>

Paul Weinx wrote:

>
>Hi friends.
>I have a Postfix to handle virtual domains and users, and it works
>perfectly. I have Mailman installed and removed about 30 times, trying
>different configurations, but I'm desperate, because I only work in a way
>that I describe below.
>
>Suppose my domain is domain.com, and I want to use lists.domain.com
>exclusively for lists (If it does not work even with mailman at domain.com, I
>do not even want to imagine what I must do to domain2.com, domain3.com,
>etc). All dns are pointing to my server Ubuntu perfectly.


Please see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.


>When i put in the / etc / mailman / transport file:
>lists.domain.com mailman:
>and try to send an email to mailman at domain.com, the mail.log drop me the
>next error:
>
>Sep 14 11:59:46 ws postfix / pipe [20487]: DB5333017C4: to =
><mailman at lists.domain.com>, <mailman at domain.com> orig_to =, relay = mailman,
>delay = 0.5, delays = 0.49 / 0/0/0.01, dsn = 5.3.0, status = bounced
>(command line usage error. Command output: Illegal invocation: '/ usr / lib
>/ mailman / bin / postfix-to-mailman.py lists.domain.com mailman argv = /
>usr / bin / spamc-f-e / usr / sbin / sendmail-oi-f paulweinx at hotmail.com -
>mailman at lists.domain.com 'Did you forget to September
>mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1 in main.cf ?)

<rant>
postfix_to_mailman.py is a third party module officially unsupported by
the GNU Mailman project. It is used by Debian/Ubuntu for reasons
unknown to me and causes much grief when people come here looking for
help.
</rant>

Note that the above error log message does not come from the
postfix_to_mailman.py that I have seen. It seems to indicate that
postfix_to_mailman.py is being invoked as part of some pipe involving
spamc (Spamassassin) and sendmail, but why this is happening I don't
know, and it would be wrong in any case.

What is the entry in master.cf for the mailman transport? It should be
at least similar to

mailman unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=FR user=mailman:mailman 
  argv=/var/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py ${nexthop} ${user}

without any extraneous whitespace.


>No matter if i place in mm_cfg.py: MTA = 'Postfix' or MTA = 'None',


MTA = None (no quotes arond None) is appropriate for
postfix_to_mailman.py. MTA = 'Postfix' is for automated generation of
aliases and virtual mappings which is the recommended method for
integrating Postfix with Mailman and is npt compatible with
postfix_to_mailman.py.


> or if
>the file main.cf mydestination postfix leave empty, or put mydestination =
>lists.domain.com, relay_domains or thousands of combinations I could think.
>
>The only way that mailman knows that I am sending an email (and if you do it
>from localhost moderation remains pending, although this is less important
>to me) is putting in the transport file, the following:
>domain.com mailman:


Are you sending your list mail to LISTNAME at lists.domain.com? and not to
LISTNAME at domain.com? postfix_to_mailman.py requires that list
addresses all be qualified by a dedicated domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From paulweinx at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 14 19:00:41 2011
From: paulweinx at hotmail.com (Paul Weinx)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 10:00:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-to-postfix.py Illegal Invocation
 errorswhen i put the correct transport
In-Reply-To: <PC195201109140826230312465b0e0f@MSAPIRO>
References: <32462307.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<PC195201109140826230312465b0e0f@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <32465254.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hi, Mark, first of all thank you very much for your kind response.

It's amazing, the error i posted you was due to a fault # in a line in the
file uncommented mm_cfg.py..

Now I find another error when i post to a list, doesn't matter if to
mailman at lists.domain.com or  mailman at domain.com, and I dare not change
permissions without your advice:

Sep 14 18:38:43 ws Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman
expected the mail#012wrapper script to be executed as group "daemon",
but#012the system's mail server executed the mail script as#012group
"mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the#012script as group
"daemon", or re-run configure, #012providing the command line option
`--with-mail-gid=mailman'.
Sep 14 18:38:43 ws postfix/pipe[29466]: E3CB03029A1:
to=<mailman at lists.domain.com>, relay=mailman, delay=0.54,
delays=0.49/0/0/0.04, dsn=5.3.0, status=bounced (Command died with status 2:
"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py". Command output: Group mismatch
error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group
"daemon", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group
"mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group
"daemon", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
`--with-mail-gid=mailman'. )

What can i do? It sounds me not as easy as execute a simple chown... I also
don't understand what's postfix-to-mailman.py pretending to do, if i don't
want this script be executed, i want a pure integration.

What will certainly get my attention, is that even though I came out I
posted that bug you, simply by mydestinations = $ mydomain, the list worked
perfectly! (sending to mailman at domain.com, what i want, cause i don't want
to need to include the lists preffix). But with the exception that virtual
users will not receive mail due to error "do not specify domain.com in BOTH
mydestination and virtual_mailbox_domain" but I can not afford it because
virtual users should be able to continue sending and receiving.

Thank you very much and i hope you can help me with the "daemon" group
issue.


Mark Sapiro-3 wrote:
> 
> Paul Weinx wrote:
> 
>>
>>Hi friends.
>>I have a Postfix to handle virtual domains and users, and it works
>>perfectly. I have Mailman installed and removed about 30 times, trying
>>different configurations, but I'm desperate, because I only work in a way
>>that I describe below.
>>
>>Suppose my domain is domain.com, and I want to use lists.domain.com
>>exclusively for lists (If it does not work even with mailman at domain.com, I
>>do not even want to imagine what I must do to domain2.com, domain3.com,
>>etc). All dns are pointing to my server Ubuntu perfectly.
> 
> 
> Please see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.
> 
> 
>>When i put in the / etc / mailman / transport file:
>>lists.domain.com mailman:
>>and try to send an email to mailman at domain.com, the mail.log drop me the
>>next error:
>>
>>Sep 14 11:59:46 ws postfix / pipe [20487]: DB5333017C4: to =
>><mailman at lists.domain.com>, <mailman at domain.com> orig_to =, relay =
mailman,
>>delay = 0.5, delays = 0.49 / 0/0/0.01, dsn = 5.3.0, status = bounced
>>(command line usage error. Command output: Illegal invocation: '/ usr /
lib
>>/ mailman / bin / postfix-to-mailman.py lists.domain.com mailman argv = /
>>usr / bin / spamc-f-e / usr / sbin / sendmail-oi-f paulweinx at hotmail.com -
>>mailman at lists.domain.com 'Did you forget to September
>>mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1 in main.cf ?)
> 
> <rant>
> postfix_to_mailman.py is a third party module officially unsupported by
> the GNU Mailman project. It is used by Debian/Ubuntu for reasons
> unknown to me and causes much grief when people come here looking for
> help.
> </rant>
> 
> Note that the above error log message does not come from the
> postfix_to_mailman.py that I have seen. It seems to indicate that
> postfix_to_mailman.py is being invoked as part of some pipe involving
> spamc (Spamassassin) and sendmail, but why this is happening I don't
> know, and it would be wrong in any case.
> 
> What is the entry in master.cf for the mailman transport? It should be
> at least similar to
> 
> mailman unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
>   flags=FR user=mailman:mailman 
>   argv=/var/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py ${nexthop} ${user}
> 
> without any extraneous whitespace.
> 
> 
>>No matter if i place in mm_cfg.py: MTA = 'Postfix' or MTA = 'None',
> 
> 
> MTA = None (no quotes arond None) is appropriate for
> postfix_to_mailman.py. MTA = 'Postfix' is for automated generation of
> aliases and virtual mappings which is the recommended method for
> integrating Postfix with Mailman and is npt compatible with
> postfix_to_mailman.py.
> 
> 
>> or if
>>the file main.cf mydestination postfix leave empty, or put mydestination =
>>lists.domain.com, relay_domains or thousands of combinations I could
think.
>>
>>The only way that mailman knows that I am sending an email (and if you do
it
>>from localhost moderation remains pending, although this is less important
>>to me) is putting in the transport file, the following:
>>domain.com mailman:
> 
> 
> Are you sending your list mail to LISTNAME at lists.domain.com? and not to
> LISTNAME at domain.com? postfix_to_mailman.py requires that list
> addresses all be qualified by a dedicated domain.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40nabble.com
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/mailman-to-postfix.py-Illegal-Invocation-errors-when-i-put-the-correct-transport-tp32462307p32465254.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 14 19:13:47 2011
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 20:13:47 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some suggestions..
Message-ID: <COL105-DS5D5D623E8ED3E88D9B7B0FB040@phx.gbl>

Dear mailmam team..

I?ve been a proud mailman user for years and I would like to post some comments that would be useful in the next mailman version:

- the ability to export the list config (config_list) from the web interface, many mailman users have regular webhosting plans with no shell access.. if they want to switch to a different service it will be difficult for them to reconfigure their lists ..

- the ability to put the approved:password in the subject line not as a custom header.. many of us use outlook and it?s pain in the arse to add  a custom header.. I have over 57 lists and I have to approve each and every one of them thru the web interface.. (ps.: if any of the mailman users actually managed to add a custom header to outlook please please do tell me how u did it)..

- the ability to approve messages in shell.. you can currently view the held messages, discard them, but not approve them..

- make bounce processing smarter to know when the message is a real bounce and when it was deferred by the remote MTAs like hotmail and yahoo.. the addresses do exist and they willingly subscribed but they eventually get removed from the lists because of deferrals which later, if not unsubscribed, hotmail and yahoo will accept them sometimes..

- change the mailman?s name to KICKASSmail :)

Thanks for a wonderful application and great service..


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 15 11:45:11 2011
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 12:45:11 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman logs..
Message-ID: <COL105-DS950E88CCAAF73F02CA02AFB070@phx.gbl>

hi,

is there a manual for understanding mailman logs??

I need to know which addresses were unsubscribed from the list by clicking the un-subscribe link or sent an email to be removed from the list, (I have the list administrator notification disabled).. and which users were unsubscribed due to excessive bounces and which members currently disabled..

thanks..


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Thu Sep 15 11:53:11 2011
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 11:53:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman logs..
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS950E88CCAAF73F02CA02AFB070@phx.gbl>
References: <COL105-DS950E88CCAAF73F02CA02AFB070@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20110915095311.GF30684@charite.de>

* Khalil Abbas <khillo100 at hotmail.com>:
> hi,
> 
> is there a manual for understanding mailman logs??
> 
> I need to know which addresses were unsubscribed from the list by
> clicking the un-subscribe link or sent an email to be removed from the
> list, (I have the list administrator notification disabled).. and which
> users were unsubscribed due to excessive bounces and which members
> currently disabled..

The logs explicitly say so:

Sep 15 09:00:03 2011 (10450) python-dev: xxxxxxx auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
Sep 15 07:33:08 2011 (27273) python-es: deleted xxxxx; via the member options page

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep 15 16:35:57 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 07:35:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-to-postfix.py Illegal
	Invocationerrorswhen i put the correct transport
In-Reply-To: <32465254.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011091507355702915faeca1c@MSAPIRO>

Paul Weinx wrote:
>
>Now I find another error when i post to a list, doesn't matter if to
>mailman at lists.domain.com or  mailman at domain.com, and I dare not change
>permissions without your advice:
>
>Sep 14 18:38:43 ws Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman
>expected the mail#012wrapper script to be executed as group "daemon",
>but#012the system's mail server executed the mail script as#012group
>"mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the#012script as group
>"daemon", or re-run configure, #012providing the command line option
>`--with-mail-gid=mailman'.
>Sep 14 18:38:43 ws postfix/pipe[29466]: E3CB03029A1:
>to=<mailman at lists.domain.com>, relay=mailman, delay=0.54,
>delays=0.49/0/0/0.04, dsn=5.3.0, status=bounced (Command died with status 2:
>"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py". Command output: Group mismatch
>error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group
>"daemon", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group
>"mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group
>"daemon", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
>`--with-mail-gid=mailman'. )


Once again, please see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.

The particular error you are seeing is a group mismatch error as
discussed in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/tYA9>.


>What can i do? It sounds me not as easy as execute a simple chown... I also
>don't understand what's postfix-to-mailman.py pretending to do, if i don't
>want this script be executed, i want a pure integration.


To fix this error, yo need to either make the mail wrapper ecpect group
'mailman' or you have to make Postfix run the wrapper as group
'daemon'. Making the mail wrapper ecpect group 'mailman' is probably
the better solution, but I don't know how to do this in a
Debian/Ubuntu package (Again, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>). In order to make Postfix run the
wrapper as group 'daemon', look at master.cf. If you have something
like

mailman unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=FR user=mailman:mailman 
  argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py ${nexthop} ${user}

you can change the user= to 'user=mailman:daemon' or
'user=daemon:daemon'. Either one should work.


>What will certainly get my attention, is that even though I came out I
>posted that bug you, simply by mydestinations = $ mydomain, the list worked
>perfectly! (sending to mailman at domain.com, what i want, cause i don't want
>to need to include the lists preffix). But with the exception that virtual
>users will not receive mail due to error "do not specify domain.com in BOTH
>mydestination and virtual_mailbox_domain" but I can not afford it because
>virtual users should be able to continue sending and receiving.


If you want to address your list mail to LIST at domain.com and not
LIST at lists.domain.com and you have user addresses that aren't lists
@domain.com, postfix_to_mailman.py is not the appropriate delivery
method; it is designed to work with dedicated domains. You should
remove the 'mailman' transport entries from the /etc/mailman/transport
file or remove any reference to it from transport_maps in main.cf, and
you should configure Postfix - Mailman configuration as described at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-integration.html>.
However, if you do this, you will need to fix group mismatch errors by
making the wrapper expect group 'mailman', and I can't tell you how to
do that in a Debian/Ubuntu package.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jhock at iinet.net.au  Fri Sep 16 04:37:20 2011
From: jhock at iinet.net.au (jhock)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 12:37:20 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman lists are set up but posts to the lists are
	not arriving
Message-ID: <1316140640.2727.23.camel@john-laptop>

Hi,

I have set up Mailman and can create lists etc. I can subscribe to the
lists but I can't post to the lists. The posts don't get delivered.

I have looked at the FAQs and searched the WIKI but I can't find an
answer to my problem. I have been working on this for days. Cann someone
please help me?

I using:

Mailman version: 2.1.14
Python 2.5.2
Debian GNU/Linux 5.0.5
Exim version 4.69 #1 built 30-Sep-2008 18:54:33

my configuration is:

MAILMAN_USER = 'mailman'
MAILMAN_GROUP = 'mailman'
--with-mail-gid=Debian-exim --with-cgi-gid=www-data

I have tried to apply to the content of section 6.2 in the
mailman-2.1.14-1/doc/mailman-install.txt

/etc/exim4/conf.d/main/04_local_mailman_macros
/etc/exim4/conf.d/router/970_local_mailman
/etc/exim4/conf.d/./transport/40_local_mailman

The content of my:
syslog
apache error logs and
mailman error logs

tell me nothing that I can understand.

Can someone help?

Thanks.

John


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep 16 07:07:22 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:07:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman lists are set up but posts to the lists
	arenot arriving
In-Reply-To: <1316140640.2727.23.camel@john-laptop>
Message-ID: <PC195201109152207220494532ee7c4@MSAPIRO>

jhock wrote:
>
>I have set up Mailman and can create lists etc. I can subscribe to the
>lists but I can't post to the lists. The posts don't get delivered.
>
>I have looked at the FAQs and searched the WIKI but I can't find an
>answer to my problem. I have been working on this for days. Cann someone
>please help me?
>
>I using:
>
>Mailman version: 2.1.14
>Python 2.5.2
>Debian GNU/Linux 5.0.5
>Exim version 4.69 #1 built 30-Sep-2008 18:54:33
>
>my configuration is:
>
>MAILMAN_USER = 'mailman'
>MAILMAN_GROUP = 'mailman'
>--with-mail-gid=Debian-exim --with-cgi-gid=www-data


The above is wrong. Assuming that

MAILMAN_USER = 'mailman'
MAILMAN_GROUP = 'mailman'

are from your exim config and 

--with-mail-gid=Debian-exim --with-cgi-gid=www-data

were options to configure, it should have been

--with-mail-gid=mailman

I.e. whateve you configure with --with-mail-gid must match
MAILMAN_GROUP.


>I have tried to apply to the content of section 6.2 in the
>mailman-2.1.14-1/doc/mailman-install.txt
>
>/etc/exim4/conf.d/main/04_local_mailman_macros
>/etc/exim4/conf.d/router/970_local_mailman
>/etc/exim4/conf.d/./transport/40_local_mailman


Did you read the note at the beginning of section 6.2 which says in
part "The updated document is here:
http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html and is recommended over the
information in the subsections below if you are using Exim 4."


>The content of my:
>syslog
>apache error logs and
>mailman error logs
>
>tell me nothing that I can understand.


Well, you are coming here for help because we might be able to
understand what's in those logs, but not if we don't see them. The
apache logs aren't relevant to "can't post" issues, but the other's
are, so what's in them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From joydeep at infoservices.in  Fri Sep 16 07:15:05 2011
From: joydeep at infoservices.in (J. Bakshi)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 10:45:05 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to create customize footer link ?
Message-ID: <20110916104505.4a2f69ea@shiva.selfip.org>

Hello list,

My mailing lists are running fine. I wonder if there is any way
to generate some link at the footer, like unsubscribe link,
archive link etc..

TIA

From jhock at iinet.net.au  Fri Sep 16 09:20:31 2011
From: jhock at iinet.net.au (jhock)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:20:31 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman lists are set up but posts to the lists
 arenot arriving
In-Reply-To: <PC195201109152207220494532ee7c4@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201109152207220494532ee7c4@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <1316157631.2299.19.camel@john-laptop>

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 22:07 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> jhock wrote:
> >
> >I have set up Mailman and can create lists etc. I can subscribe to the
> >lists but I can't post to the lists. The posts don't get delivered.
> >
> >I have looked at the FAQs and searched the WIKI but I can't find an
> >answer to my problem. I have been working on this for days. Cann someone
> >please help me?
> >
> >I using:
> >
> >Mailman version: 2.1.14
> >Python 2.5.2
> >Debian GNU/Linux 5.0.5
> >Exim version 4.69 #1 built 30-Sep-2008 18:54:33
> >
> >my configuration is:
> >
> >MAILMAN_USER = 'mailman'
> >MAILMAN_GROUP = 'mailman'
> >--with-mail-gid=Debian-exim --with-cgi-gid=www-data
> 

> 
> The above is wrong. Assuming that
> 
> MAILMAN_USER = 'mailman'
> MAILMAN_GROUP = 'mailman'
> 
> are from your exim config and 
> 
> --with-mail-gid=Debian-exim --with-cgi-gid=www-data
> 
> were options to configure, it should have been
> 
> --with-mail-gid=mailman
> 
> I.e. whateve you configure with --with-mail-gid must match
> MAILMAN_GROUP.
> 
> 
Hi Mark,

Thanks for your prompt reply.

The exim4 daemon runs with group id = Debian-exim. That is why I
configured Mailman --with-mail-gid=Debian-exim. I assumed that the
mail-gid was the group id of the mail daemon.

However, I have reconfigured Mailman --with-mail-gid=mailman as you
suggested.

> >I have tried to apply to the content of section 6.2 in the
> >mailman-2.1.14-1/doc/mailman-install.txt
> >
> >/etc/exim4/conf.d/main/04_local_mailman_macros
> >/etc/exim4/conf.d/router/970_local_mailman
> >/etc/exim4/conf.d/./transport/40_local_mailman
> 
> 
> Did you read the note at the beginning of section 6.2 which says in
> part "The updated document is here:
> http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html and is recommended over the
> information in the subsections below if you are using Exim 4."
> 
> 

That document is even less helpful. It doesn't mention what files to add
the lines:

MM_HOME=/var/mailman
MM_UID=mailman
MM_GID=mailman

and 

domainlist mm_domains=list.example.com


There is nothing in the mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py that has MM_HOME
etc. however there is reference to MAILMAN_HOME etc. Hence I used what
was in the documentation with the mailman/doc/mailman-install.txt files.

I have no idea in which file(s) to add the:

accept  domains = +local_domains
        endpass
        message = unknown user
        verify  = recipient
 and

accept hosts = 127.0.0.1

content. 

The list verification output seemed to be correct so I guess the content
of the mailman/docs/mailman-install.txt file worked expect that the
messages were not getting through.

I think that the exim4 needs to be changes to allow to and from external
emails but I have no idea how to do this.

> >The content of my:
> >syslog
> >apache error logs and
> >mailman error logs
> >
> >tell me nothing that I can understand.
> 
> 
> Well, you are coming here for help because we might be able to
> understand what's in those logs, but not if we don't see them. The
> apache logs aren't relevant to "can't post" issues, but the other's
> are, so what's in them.
> 

The entry in the exim4/rejectlog is:

2011-09-16 14:53:08 H=localhost (asdd.osdm.gov.au) [127.0.0.1]
F=<mailman-bounces+info=mymaps.gov.au at mymaps.gov.au> temporarily
rejected RCPT <info at mymaps.gov.au>: expected "sender[=address]",
"recipient", "helo", "header_syntax", "header_sender" or
"reverse_host_lookup" at start of ACL condition "verify recipients"

I tried Googling part of that string but I didn't find anything to
overcome the problem.  

The entry in the mailman/log/post file is:

Sep 16 14:53:08 2011 (25420) post to mymaps-l from
mailman-bounces at mymaps.gov.au, size=551,
message-id=<mailman.1.1316133151.10188.mymaps-l at mymaps.gov.au>, 1
failures

The entry in the smtp file is:

Sep 16 14:53:08 2011 (25420)
<mailman.1.1316133151.10188.mymaps-l at mymaps.gov.au> smtp to mymaps-l for
1 recips, completed in 0.069 seconds

The entries in the smtp-failure file are:

Sep 16 14:53:08 2011 (25420) All recipients refused:
{'info at mymaps.gov.au': (451, 'Temporary local problem - please try
later')}, msgid: <mailman.1.1316133151.10188.mymaps-l at mymaps.gov.au>
Sep 16 14:53:08 2011 (25420) delivery to info at mymaps.gov.au failed with
code 451: Temporary local problem - please try later

Does this help you tell me what I need to do?

Thanks.

John


From odhiambo at gmail.com  Fri Sep 16 09:45:39 2011
From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 10:45:39 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman lists are set up but posts to the lists
 arenot arriving
In-Reply-To: <1316157631.2299.19.camel@john-laptop>
References: <PC195201109152207220494532ee7c4@MSAPIRO>
	<1316157631.2299.19.camel@john-laptop>
Message-ID: <CAAdA2WPfLUZxWmoJCZbsQbUv=DdFDc-PQrbe2UU+3YdWKzXMQA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:20, jhock <jhock at iinet.net.au> wrote:

> On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 22:07 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > jhock wrote:
> > >
> > >I have set up Mailman and can create lists etc. I can subscribe to the
> > >lists but I can't post to the lists. The posts don't get delivered.
> > >
> > >I have looked at the FAQs and searched the WIKI but I can't find an
> > >answer to my problem. I have been working on this for days. Cann someone
> > >please help me?
> > >
> > >I using:
> > >
> > >Mailman version: 2.1.14
> > >Python 2.5.2
> > >Debian GNU/Linux 5.0.5
> > >Exim version 4.69 #1 built 30-Sep-2008 18:54:33
> > >
> > >my configuration is:
> > >
> > >MAILMAN_USER = 'mailman'
> > >MAILMAN_GROUP = 'mailman'
> > >--with-mail-gid=Debian-exim --with-cgi-gid=www-data
> >
>
> >
> > The above is wrong. Assuming that
> >
> > MAILMAN_USER = 'mailman'
> > MAILMAN_GROUP = 'mailman'
> >
> > are from your exim config and
> >
> > --with-mail-gid=Debian-exim --with-cgi-gid=www-data
> >
> > were options to configure, it should have been
> >
> > --with-mail-gid=mailman
> >
> > I.e. whateve you configure with --with-mail-gid must match
> > MAILMAN_GROUP.
> >
> >
> Hi Mark,
>
> Thanks for your prompt reply.
>
> The exim4 daemon runs with group id = Debian-exim. That is why I
> configured Mailman --with-mail-gid=Debian-exim. I assumed that the
> mail-gid was the group id of the mail daemon.
>
> However, I have reconfigured Mailman --with-mail-gid=mailman as you
> suggested.
>
> > >I have tried to apply to the content of section 6.2 in the
> > >mailman-2.1.14-1/doc/mailman-install.txt
> > >
> > >/etc/exim4/conf.d/main/04_local_mailman_macros
> > >/etc/exim4/conf.d/router/970_local_mailman
> > >/etc/exim4/conf.d/./transport/40_local_mailman
> >
> >
> > Did you read the note at the beginning of section 6.2 which says in
> > part "The updated document is here:
> > http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html and is recommended over the
> > information in the subsections below if you are using Exim 4."
> >
> >
>
> That document is even less helpful. It doesn't mention what files to add
> the lines:
>
> MM_HOME=/var/mailman
> MM_UID=mailman
> MM_GID=mailman
>
> and
>
> domainlist mm_domains=list.example.com
>
>
> There is nothing in the mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py that has MM_HOME
> etc. however there is reference to MAILMAN_HOME etc. Hence I used what
> was in the documentation with the mailman/doc/mailman-install.txt files.
>
> I have no idea in which file(s) to add the:
>
> accept  domains = +local_domains
>        endpass
>        message = unknown user
>        verify  = recipient
>  and
>
> accept hosts = 127.0.0.1
>
> content.
>
> The list verification output seemed to be correct so I guess the content
> of the mailman/docs/mailman-install.txt file worked expect that the
> messages were not getting through.
>
> I think that the exim4 needs to be changes to allow to and from external
> emails but I have no idea how to do this.
>
> > >The content of my:
> > >syslog
> > >apache error logs and
> > >mailman error logs
> > >
> > >tell me nothing that I can understand.
> >
> >
> > Well, you are coming here for help because we might be able to
> > understand what's in those logs, but not if we don't see them. The
> > apache logs aren't relevant to "can't post" issues, but the other's
> > are, so what's in them.
> >
>
> The entry in the exim4/rejectlog is:
>
> 2011-09-16 14:53:08 H=localhost (asdd.osdm.gov.au) [127.0.0.1]
> F=<mailman-bounces+info=mymaps.gov.au at mymaps.gov.au> temporarily
> rejected RCPT <info at mymaps.gov.au>: expected "sender[=address]",
> "recipient", "helo", "header_syntax", "header_sender" or
> "reverse_host_lookup" at start of ACL condition "verify recipients"
>
> I tried Googling part of that string but I didn't find anything to
> overcome the problem.
>
> The entry in the mailman/log/post file is:
>
> Sep 16 14:53:08 2011 (25420) post to mymaps-l from
> mailman-bounces at mymaps.gov.au, size=551,
> message-id=<mailman.1.1316133151.10188.mymaps-l at mymaps.gov.au>, 1
> failures
>
> The entry in the smtp file is:
>
> Sep 16 14:53:08 2011 (25420)
> <mailman.1.1316133151.10188.mymaps-l at mymaps.gov.au> smtp to mymaps-l for
> 1 recips, completed in 0.069 seconds
>
> The entries in the smtp-failure file are:
>
> Sep 16 14:53:08 2011 (25420) All recipients refused:
> {'info at mymaps.gov.au': (451, 'Temporary local problem - please try
> later')}, msgid: <mailman.1.1316133151.10188.mymaps-l at mymaps.gov.au>
> Sep 16 14:53:08 2011 (25420) delivery to info at mymaps.gov.au failed with
> code 451: Temporary local problem - please try later
>
> Does this help you tell me what I need to do?
>
>
You will need some Debian-centric instructions to achieve this.


http://albertech.net/2009/09/debian-installing-mailman-with-exim4/


-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Fri Sep 16 11:46:06 2011
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 10:46:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman lists are set up but posts to the	lists
	arenot arriving
In-Reply-To: <CAAdA2WPfLUZxWmoJCZbsQbUv=DdFDc-PQrbe2UU+3YdWKzXMQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <PC195201109152207220494532ee7c4@MSAPIRO>
	<1316157631.2299.19.camel@john-laptop>
	<CAAdA2WPfLUZxWmoJCZbsQbUv=DdFDc-PQrbe2UU+3YdWKzXMQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110916094606.GU12921@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:45:39AM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:20, jhock <jhock at iinet.net.au> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 22:07 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > > jhock wrote:
> > > Did you read the note at the beginning of section 6.2 which says in
> > > part "The updated document is here:
> > > http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html and is recommended over the
> > > information in the subsections below if you are using Exim 4."
> >
> You will need some Debian-centric instructions to achieve this.

Or, of course, you could try and revert to a more normal (saner) 
exim deployment, viz the monolithic singular configuration file, which
is as trivial as crafting an Exim config file, but ensuring it's named
exim4.conf, and with the hard-coded permissions pkg-exim4 expects.

(ugh. pkg-exim4)


-- 
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one
 persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
 depends on the unreasonable man." 
    --  George Bernard Shaw

From heihu405654 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 16 09:04:16 2011
From: heihu405654 at hotmail.com (=?gb2312?B?1cW35Q==?=)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 15:04:16 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman email address
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1316156525.10942.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.0.1316156525.10942.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <COL106-W49EE6A19667346CA5A7D4EB0060@phx.gbl>


hi,here is my list:  http://imaboy.cn/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chineselist i want to know when someone Subscribing to Chineselist, why i can not get the user's email. how can i check which email address i am using.and where is the error log for mailman? Thanks!

 		 	   		  

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep 16 23:30:59 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 14:30:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman email address
In-Reply-To: <COL106-W49EE6A19667346CA5A7D4EB0060@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.0.1316156525.10942.mailman-users@python.org>
	<COL106-W49EE6A19667346CA5A7D4EB0060@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4E73C013.4060900@msapiro.net>

On 9/16/2011 12:04 AM, ?? wrote:
> 
> hi,here is my list:
> http://imaboy.cn/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chineselist i want to know
> when someone Subscribing to Chineselist, why i can not get the user's
> email.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.


> how can i check which email address i am using.


I'm not sure what you mean by this question, but according to the
listinfo page whos URL you gave above, the list posting address is
<chineselist at imaboy.cn>. If you mean "how do I find what happens to mail
to this address?", The DNS MX records for this domain are

imaboy.cn.              3600    IN      MX      4 mxzwg11.mxhichina.com.
imaboy.cn.              3600    IN      MX      10 mail.imaboy.cn.

which means that mail to the imaboy.cn domain will preferably be routed
to mxzwg11.mxhichina.com with fallback to mail.imaboy.cn, neither of
which appears to be the Mailman server at imaboy.cn. Thus, you need to
arrange for those servers to relay list mail to imaboy.cn.


> and where is
> the error log for mailman? Thanks!


If you installed Mailman from source with default settings, Mailman's
logs are in /usr/local/mailman/logs. If you configured with --prefix= or
--with-var-prefix=, the logs are in the logs/ directory subordinate to
the var-prefix or prefix directory. If you installed Mailman from a
package, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep 16 23:44:03 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 14:44:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to create customize footer link ?
In-Reply-To: <20110916104505.4a2f69ea@shiva.selfip.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201109161444030156eb6be65f@MSAPIRO>

J. Bakshi wrote:
>
>My mailing lists are running fine. I wonder if there is any way
>to generate some link at the footer, like unsubscribe link,
>archive link etc..


You posted this same question a week ago. See the answer at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-September/072221.html>.
If there is something about that answer you don't understand, please
ask a more specific question.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Sep 17 00:27:26 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 15:27:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman lists are set up but posts to thelists
	arenot arriving
In-Reply-To: <1316157631.2299.19.camel@john-laptop>
Message-ID: <PC195201109161527260546eb6be7fc@MSAPIRO>

jhock wrote:
>
>The exim4 daemon runs with group id = Debian-exim. That is why I
>configured Mailman --with-mail-gid=Debian-exim. I assumed that the
>mail-gid was the group id of the mail daemon.
>
>However, I have reconfigured Mailman --with-mail-gid=mailman as you
>suggested.


You have set the MAILMAN_USER and MAILMAN_GROUP macros to 'mailman'.
The suggested mailman transport for exim contains

user = MAILMAN_USER
group = MAILMAN_GROUP

which tells Exim to run the pipe to the wrapper as user:group =
mailman:mailman. If Exim has sufficient privilege do do so, it will.


>> >I have tried to apply to the content of section 6.2 in the
>> >mailman-2.1.14-1/doc/mailman-install.txt
>> >
>> >/etc/exim4/conf.d/main/04_local_mailman_macros
>> >/etc/exim4/conf.d/router/970_local_mailman
>> >/etc/exim4/conf.d/./transport/40_local_mailman
>> 
>> 
>> Did you read the note at the beginning of section 6.2 which says in
>> part "The updated document is here:
>> http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html and is recommended over the
>> information in the subsections below if you are using Exim 4."
>> 
>> 
>
>That document is even less helpful. It doesn't mention what files to add
>the lines:
>
>MM_HOME=/var/mailman
>MM_UID=mailman
>MM_GID=mailman
>
>and 
>
>domainlist mm_domains=list.example.com


I refrained from referring you to the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD> in my initial reply because it appeared
you were installing Mailman from source, however, as others have
pointed out, the document at
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html> is written from the point
of view of a "normal" Exim configuration where everything is in one
large file. You are apparently trying to install Mailman in a "hybrid"
manner where you have installed Mailman from source, but are still
using the (Debian/Ubuntu ?) Exim/Mailman packaging. Thus, the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD> is applicable.


>There is nothing in the mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py that has MM_HOME
>etc. however there is reference to MAILMAN_HOME etc. Hence I used what
>was in the documentation with the mailman/doc/mailman-install.txt files.


Everything in section 6.2 of the install manual is Exim configuration.
Nothing goes in mm_cfg.py and Defaults.py should never be changed for
reasons discussed in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/fIA9>.


>I have no idea in which file(s) to add the:
>
>accept  domains = +local_domains
>        endpass
>        message = unknown user
>        verify  = recipient
> and
>
>accept hosts = 127.0.0.1
>
>content. 


If you had a standard Exim config, thos would go (actually, the first
would probably alreade be) in the ACL CONFIGURATION section of
exim.conf under acl_check_rcpt:. I have no idea into which sub-file
your configuration has split that off.


>The list verification output seemed to be correct so I guess the content
>of the mailman/docs/mailman-install.txt file worked expect that the
>messages were not getting through.
>
>I think that the exim4 needs to be changes to allow to and from external
>emails but I have no idea how to do this.
>
>> >The content of my:
>> >syslog
>> >apache error logs and
>> >mailman error logs
>> >
>> >tell me nothing that I can understand.
>> 
>> 
>> Well, you are coming here for help because we might be able to
>> understand what's in those logs, but not if we don't see them. The
>> apache logs aren't relevant to "can't post" issues, but the other's
>> are, so what's in them.
>> 
>
>The entry in the exim4/rejectlog is:
>
>2011-09-16 14:53:08 H=localhost (asdd.osdm.gov.au) [127.0.0.1]
>F=<mailman-bounces+info=mymaps.gov.au at mymaps.gov.au> temporarily
>rejected RCPT <info at mymaps.gov.au>: expected "sender[=address]",
>"recipient", "helo", "header_syntax", "header_sender" or
>"reverse_host_lookup" at start of ACL condition "verify recipients"


This indicates a syntax error somewhere in the acl_check_rcpt: section
of your exim configuration. What did you change there?


>I tried Googling part of that string but I didn't find anything to
>overcome the problem.  
>
>The entry in the mailman/log/post file is:
>
>Sep 16 14:53:08 2011 (25420) post to mymaps-l from
>mailman-bounces at mymaps.gov.au, size=551,
>message-id=<mailman.1.1316133151.10188.mymaps-l at mymaps.gov.au>, 1
>failures
>
>The entry in the smtp file is:
>
>Sep 16 14:53:08 2011 (25420)
><mailman.1.1316133151.10188.mymaps-l at mymaps.gov.au> smtp to mymaps-l for
>1 recips, completed in 0.069 seconds
>
>The entries in the smtp-failure file are:
>
>Sep 16 14:53:08 2011 (25420) All recipients refused:
>{'info at mymaps.gov.au': (451, 'Temporary local problem - please try
>later')}, msgid: <mailman.1.1316133151.10188.mymaps-l at mymaps.gov.au>
>Sep 16 14:53:08 2011 (25420) delivery to info at mymaps.gov.au failed with
>code 451: Temporary local problem - please try later


These all say that Exim has temporarily rejected outgoing mail from
Mailman because of the initial error.

What does

 exim -f mailman-bounces+info=mymaps.gov.au at mymaps.gov.au \
 -bt info at mymaps.gov.au

or perhaps

 exim -d -f mailman-bounces+info=mymaps.gov.au at mymaps.gov.au \
 -bt info at mymaps.gov.au

tell you?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From montoliu at cnb.csic.es  Sat Sep 17 10:19:40 2011
From: montoliu at cnb.csic.es (Lluis Montoliu)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:19:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delayed distribution of messages
Message-ID: <20110917101940.15707l56d0x40pb0@webmail.csic.es>

Dear listers,

I am new at this list. I have been reviewing FAQs.

I have been using mailman for many years. Currently, we are using a  
2.1.11 installation on our current hosting that is causing us lots of  
troubles.

I am responsible for a list of ~500 members and other much smaller  
(<25 members). All these lists, specially the largest, are  
experiencing unexpected delays in distributing messages of about 45-60  
min from sending a message to the list and the message being  
distributed. This is very problematic and makes the use of these lists  
a pain, specially for maintain a dynamic discussion on any subject.

The mail system itself seems to be OK. If I do send a message to the  
same 500 members from a PHP script the message gets distributed  
immediately.

I don't have root privileges although we are on our own (administered)  
server. All I can do is complain before my hosting services and they  
say they can't do much and refer to internal mailman problems to  
explain this poor performance (that I haven't seen before in other  
servers).

I have found the following thread that might explain our problems:
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030582

I have passed this information to my hosting, hopefully they will  
check and take care.

However, I wanted to ask this community whether there are any other  
known bugs or issues to take into account that might impair list  
performance and delay the distribution of messages,

Many thanks for your anticipated responses!

with kind regards from Madrid,

Lluis



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Sep 17 17:42:59 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 08:42:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delayed distribution of messages
In-Reply-To: <20110917101940.15707l56d0x40pb0@webmail.csic.es>
Message-ID: <PC195201109170842590437aba067b0@MSAPIRO>

Lluis Montoliu wrote:
>
>I am responsible for a list of ~500 members and other much smaller  
>(<25 members). All these lists, specially the largest, are  
>experiencing unexpected delays in distributing messages of about 45-60  
>min from sending a message to the list and the message being  
>distributed. This is very problematic and makes the use of these lists  
>a pain, specially for maintain a dynamic discussion on any subject.
>
>The mail system itself seems to be OK. If I do send a message to the  
>same 500 members from a PHP script the message gets distributed  
>immediately.
>
>I don't have root privileges although we are on our own (administered)  
>server. All I can do is complain before my hosting services and they  
>say they can't do much and refer to internal mailman problems to  
>explain this poor performance (that I haven't seen before in other  
>servers).


The first thing you need to do is examine the Received: headers in one
of these delayed messages to determine where the delay occurs. It may
or may not even involve Mailman. Note that Received: headers are added
at the top of the headers by each MTA as it receives the message,
thus, the chain reads chronologically from bottom to top.

Yo need two find the two headers which indicate delivery to Mailman and
delivery from Mailman. For example, in the message to which I'm
replying as received by me from the list, the two relevant headers are:


Received: from albatross.python.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by mail.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3S1Gcn4GdGzP1M
	for <mark at msapiro.net>; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 16:50:49 +0200 (CEST)

and

Received: from albatross.python.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by mail.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3S15yp2hlbzNvQ
	for <mailman-users at python.org>; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:20:50 +0200 (CEST)

The bottom header indicates the post was delivered to mail.python.org
atSat, 17 Sep 2011 10:20:50 +0200, and the top header indicates the
message to me was received from Mailman at Sat, 17 Sep 2011 16:50:49
+0200. Thus, there was a delay of about 6 hours and 30 minutes between
delivery to Mailman and delivery from Mailman. In this case, this
delay is explained by the fact the you are a new list member and your
post was moderated as noted by the header

X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 16:50:04 +0200

Thus, there was actually only a 45 second delay between moderator
approval and delivery from Mailman.

Anyway, if the above indicates the delay is between delivery to Mailman
and delivery from Mailman, you need to examine Mailman's 'smtp' and
'smtp-failure' logs for 'long' processing times and or temporary
failures to get additional clues.

[...]
>However, I wanted to ask this community whether there are any other  
>known bugs or issues to take into account that might impair list  
>performance and delay the distribution of messages,


There are no known bugs but there are several potential issues that
could affect this, but we need more information to say more.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From montoliu at cnb.csic.es  Sat Sep 17 19:17:56 2011
From: montoliu at cnb.csic.es (Lluis Montoliu)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 19:17:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delayed distribution of messages
In-Reply-To: <PC195201109170842590437aba067b0@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201109170842590437aba067b0@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <20110917191756.98045pnftoappnwk@webmail.csic.es>

Thanks Mark for a detailed and useful answer.

Here are the headings of one of these delayed messages, sent yesterday  
(at 18:47), that was eventually distributed 45 minutes later (at 19:32):

Message was sent from my address (my computer at work) to the list  
called "istt_list at transtechsociety.org", hosted at d344.dinaserver.com

_________________________________________

Received:

from [161.111.10.139] (helo=ironport1.csic.es) by buzon1.csic.es with  
esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from  
<istt_list-bounces at transtechsociety.org>) id 1R4cHE-0002Hp-GH for  
montoliu at cnb.csic.es; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 19:32:36 +0200

from d344.dinaserver.com ([82.98.151.168]) by ironport1.csic.es with  
ESMTP; 16 Sep 2011 19:32:36 +0200

from d344.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by  
d344.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D6E724B62; Fri, 16 Sep  
2011 19:32:29 +0200 (CEST)

from ironport.csic.es (ironport.csic.es [161.111.10.143]) by  
d344.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4329A23BBE for  
<istt_list at transtechsociety.org>; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:47:42 +0200 (CEST)

from estafeta.csic.es ([161.111.10.248]) by ironport4.csic.es with  
ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 16 Sep 2011 18:47:41 +0200

from [150.244.81.39] (helsinki.cnb.csic.es [150.244.81.39]) by  
estafeta.csic.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFE741A0C29 for  
<istt_list at transtechsociety.org>; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:47:46 +0200 (CEST)

_____________________________________________

At the CSIC (the network from where the message was sent) we are now  
using SPF, as it is indicated also in the header:

Received-SPF:  Pass identity=mailfrom; client-ip=82.98.151.168;  
receiver=ironport1.csic.es;  
envelope-from="istt_list-bounces at transtechsociety.org";  
x-sender="istt_list-bounces at transtechsociety.org";  
x-conformance=spf_only; x-record-type="v=spf1"
None identity=helo; client-ip=82.98.151.168;  
receiver=ironport1.csic.es;  
envelope-from="istt_list-bounces at transtechsociety.org";  
x-sender="postmaster at d344.dinaserver.com"; x-conformance=spf_only

Thus, according to the timings above, it looks as the delay indeed  
occurs at our d344.dinaserver.com server, not sure whether we can say  
this is related to mailman or to server performance with these data,  
could we?

Thanks for comments,

regards

Lluis




Quoting Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:

> Lluis Montoliu wrote:
>>
>> I am responsible for a list of ~500 members and other much smaller
>> (<25 members). All these lists, specially the largest, are
>> experiencing unexpected delays in distributing messages of about 45-60
>> min from sending a message to the list and the message being
>> distributed. This is very problematic and makes the use of these lists
>> a pain, specially for maintain a dynamic discussion on any subject.
>>
>> The mail system itself seems to be OK. If I do send a message to the
>> same 500 members from a PHP script the message gets distributed
>> immediately.
>>
>> I don't have root privileges although we are on our own (administered)
>> server. All I can do is complain before my hosting services and they
>> say they can't do much and refer to internal mailman problems to
>> explain this poor performance (that I haven't seen before in other
>> servers).
>
>
> The first thing you need to do is examine the Received: headers in one
> of these delayed messages to determine where the delay occurs. It may
> or may not even involve Mailman. Note that Received: headers are added
> at the top of the headers by each MTA as it receives the message,
> thus, the chain reads chronologically from bottom to top.
>
> Yo need two find the two headers which indicate delivery to Mailman and
> delivery from Mailman. For example, in the message to which I'm
> replying as received by me from the list, the two relevant headers are:
>
>
> Received: from albatross.python.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
> 	by mail.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3S1Gcn4GdGzP1M
> 	for <mark at msapiro.net>; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 16:50:49 +0200 (CEST)
>
> and
>
> Received: from albatross.python.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
> 	by mail.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3S15yp2hlbzNvQ
> 	for <mailman-users at python.org>; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:20:50 +0200 (CEST)
>
> The bottom header indicates the post was delivered to mail.python.org
> atSat, 17 Sep 2011 10:20:50 +0200, and the top header indicates the
> message to me was received from Mailman at Sat, 17 Sep 2011 16:50:49
> +0200. Thus, there was a delay of about 6 hours and 30 minutes between
> delivery to Mailman and delivery from Mailman. In this case, this
> delay is explained by the fact the you are a new list member and your
> post was moderated as noted by the header
>
> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 16:50:04 +0200
>
> Thus, there was actually only a 45 second delay between moderator
> approval and delivery from Mailman.
>
> Anyway, if the above indicates the delay is between delivery to Mailman
> and delivery from Mailman, you need to examine Mailman's 'smtp' and
> 'smtp-failure' logs for 'long' processing times and or temporary
> failures to get additional clues.
>
> [...]
>> However, I wanted to ask this community whether there are any other
>> known bugs or issues to take into account that might impair list
>> performance and delay the distribution of messages,
>
>
> There are no known bugs but there are several potential issues that
> could affect this, but we need more information to say more.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>



-- 
Dr. Lluis Montoliu
Investigador Cientifico - Research Scientist CSIC
Centro Nacional de Biotecnologia (CNB-CSIC)
Campus de Cantoblanco
C/ Darwin, 3
28049 Madrid (Spain)
Tel. +34-91-5854844  / Fax +34-91-5854506
e-mail: montoliu at cnb.csic.es
WEB: http://www.cnb.csic.es/~montoliu/


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Sep 17 21:01:53 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 12:01:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delayed distribution of messages
In-Reply-To: <20110917191756.98045pnftoappnwk@webmail.csic.es>
Message-ID: <PC195201109171201530281788e8b4e@MSAPIRO>

Lluis Montoliu wrote:
>
>Here are the headings of one of these delayed messages, sent yesterday  
>(at 18:47), that was eventually distributed 45 minutes later (at 19:32):
[...]
>Received:
[...]
>from d344.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by  
>d344.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D6E724B62; Fri, 16 Sep  
>2011 19:32:29 +0200 (CEST)
>
>from ironport.csic.es (ironport.csic.es [161.111.10.143]) by  
>d344.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4329A23BBE for  
><istt_list at transtechsociety.org>; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:47:42 +0200 (CEST)
[...]
>Thus, according to the timings above, it looks as the delay indeed  
>occurs at our d344.dinaserver.com server, not sure whether we can say  
>this is related to mailman or to server performance with these data,  
>could we?


It looks like the delay is between delivery to Mailman and delivery
from Mailman. You could confirm this by grepping the Postfix log
(/var/log/maillog ?) for the queue IDs 5D6E724B62 and 4329A23BBE.
Also, the log messages for queue ID 4329A23BBE will show whether the
delay is in Postfix or not.

Do you have access to this log? Do you have access to Mailman's logs
and files. If so, what's in Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs
with time stamps in the one hour or so range beginning Fri, 16 Sep
2011 18:47:42?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From montoliu at cnb.csic.es  Sat Sep 17 21:14:28 2011
From: montoliu at cnb.csic.es (Lluis Montoliu)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 21:14:28 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delayed distribution of messages
In-Reply-To: <PC195201109171201530281788e8b4e@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201109171201530281788e8b4e@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <20110917211428.23822tu02jyfz34k@webmail.csic.es>

Thanks Mark for your further comments.

Yes, the delay is at the server, but it is nothing to do with mailman.  
According to your comments, I have just discussed with the Systems  
Admin of our hosting and it looks like they implemented a filter  
(server being capable of sending only 1 message every 5 seconds, which  
would exactly explain our observed delays for the number of members of  
our list) apparently to avoid being associated with black lists and  
identified as spammer, which I do not think at all this is necessary  
or required.

I have already instructed them to immediately release this filter and  
let the messages flow at the technical speed associated with the  
server capabilities.

Thanks anyway for your very helpful comments

Lluis


Quoting Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:

> Lluis Montoliu wrote:
>>
>> Here are the headings of one of these delayed messages, sent yesterday
>> (at 18:47), that was eventually distributed 45 minutes later (at 19:32):
> [...]
>> Received:
> [...]
>> from d344.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by
>> d344.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D6E724B62; Fri, 16 Sep
>> 2011 19:32:29 +0200 (CEST)
>>
>> from ironport.csic.es (ironport.csic.es [161.111.10.143]) by
>> d344.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4329A23BBE for
>> <istt_list at transtechsociety.org>; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:47:42 +0200 (CEST)
> [...]
>> Thus, according to the timings above, it looks as the delay indeed
>> occurs at our d344.dinaserver.com server, not sure whether we can say
>> this is related to mailman or to server performance with these data,
>> could we?
>
>
> It looks like the delay is between delivery to Mailman and delivery
> from Mailman. You could confirm this by grepping the Postfix log
> (/var/log/maillog ?) for the queue IDs 5D6E724B62 and 4329A23BBE.
> Also, the log messages for queue ID 4329A23BBE will show whether the
> delay is in Postfix or not.
>
> Do you have access to this log? Do you have access to Mailman's logs
> and files. If so, what's in Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs
> with time stamps in the one hour or so range beginning Fri, 16 Sep
> 2011 18:47:42?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>



-- 
Dr. Lluis Montoliu
Investigador Cientifico - Research Scientist CSIC
Centro Nacional de Biotecnologia (CNB-CSIC)
Campus de Cantoblanco
C/ Darwin, 3
28049 Madrid (Spain)
Tel. +34-91-5854844  / Fax +34-91-5854506
e-mail: montoliu at cnb.csic.es
WEB: http://www.cnb.csic.es/~montoliu/


From ghe at slsware.com  Sat Sep 17 21:15:10 2011
From: ghe at slsware.com (Glenn English)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 13:15:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] serious newbie here
Message-ID: <704C5DA8-E24A-47C0-864E-2C01D4741495@slsware.com>

I've looked at the FAQ and the archives. 
Mailman version: 2.1.11, OS: Debian 5.8, MTA: Postfix 2.5.5.

One of my users sent out a mailing this morning, and 18% of them bounced. All the bounce reports (from remote MTAs) said things about bad addresses. He says this has happened before, but when he made another list, of only the bounces, a lot of them worked.

I can't think of any way this can happen. Have any of you seen something like this?

-- 
Glenn English




From webmaster at BSATroop6.org  Sun Sep 18 13:24:31 2011
From: webmaster at BSATroop6.org (T6 Webmaster)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 07:24:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about "Reply to All"
Message-ID: <007f01cc75f5$892851a0$9b78f4e0$@org>

Group,

 

Is there a way to prevent the list email address appearing when a user
chooses "Reply to All"?

 

It is not a problem with "Reply" - that goes to the poster - but Reply to
All still sends to the entire list - not desirable in our situation.

 

John Zaleski

BSA Troop 6

Orlando, Florida

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Sep 18 18:35:12 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:35:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] serious newbie here
In-Reply-To: <704C5DA8-E24A-47C0-864E-2C01D4741495@slsware.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520110918093512034315c561a3@MSAPIRO>

Glenn English wrote:
>
>One of my users sent out a mailing this morning, and 18% of them bounced. All the bounce reports (from remote MTAs) said things about bad addresses. He says this has happened before, but when he made another list, of only the bounces, a lot of them worked.
>
>I can't think of any way this can happen. Have any of you seen something like this?


This seems quite strange. It is almost certainly not a Mailman issue
per se unless the bounces complained specifically about the envelope
sender of the message (LISTNAME-bounces at LIST.DOMAIN).

Check your Postfix log for the delivery of some of the bounced mail. In
particular, look at the receiving MTA for the mail that bounced vs.
mail to the same address that didn't bounce. Possibly some DNS glitch
caused the first batch to be routed via an incorrect MX.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Sep 18 18:59:11 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:59:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about "Reply to All"
In-Reply-To: <007f01cc75f5$892851a0$9b78f4e0$@org>
Message-ID: <PC195201109180959110078a5a61499@MSAPIRO>

T6 Webmaster wrote:
>
>Is there a way to prevent the list email address appearing when a user
>chooses "Reply to All"?
>
> 
>
>It is not a problem with "Reply" - that goes to the poster - but Reply to
>All still sends to the entire list - not desirable in our situation.


There is no combination of list settings that will prevent "reply all"
from including the list posting address.

If your list is a one-way or announcement type list, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/3YA9> for advice on configuring it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Sep 18 19:33:14 2011
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 02:33:14 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Question about "Reply to All"
In-Reply-To: <007f01cc75f5$892851a0$9b78f4e0$@org>
References: <007f01cc75f5$892851a0$9b78f4e0$@org>
Message-ID: <87zki1bvs5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

T6 Webmaster writes:

 > Is there a way to prevent the list email address appearing when a user
 > chooses "Reply to All"?

Not in the way you state it.  That's under control of the user's mail
program, and inclusion of the list's address is the logical outcome of
a command called "Reply to All".

There is an option in Mailman for "full personalization" of list
traffic.  In that case, the list's address is removed from the visible
headers entirely, and the user's name and address are substituted.

 > It is not a problem with "Reply" - that goes to the poster - but
 > Reply to All still sends to the entire list - not desirable in our
 > situation.

It would help if you explain in more detail what is and is not
desirable.  It is probably possible to achieve a pretty good
approximation to what you want.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Sep 18 19:56:10 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 10:56:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about "Reply to All"
In-Reply-To: <87zki1bvs5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC195201109181056100281a5a61563@MSAPIRO>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>There is an option in Mailman for "full personalization" of list
>traffic.  In that case, the list's address is removed from the visible
>headers entirely, and the user's name and address are substituted.


Full Personalization will not help in this case. When the list is fully
personalized, the list posting address is put in or added to the Cc:
header precisely to facilitate replying to the list with "reply all".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cpz at tuunq.com  Sun Sep 18 19:42:45 2011
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 10:42:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about "Reply to All"
In-Reply-To: <87zki1bvs5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <007f01cc75f5$892851a0$9b78f4e0$@org>
	<87zki1bvs5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4E762D95.3080404@tuunq.com>


You could filter messages discarding anything with the X-BeenThere header, 
this would prevent any message that came out of mailman from being processed 
again. OTOH I suspect that an announce-only list would be preferable.

z!


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Sep 18 20:13:31 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 11:13:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about "Reply to All"
In-Reply-To: <4E762D95.3080404@tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201109181113310531a5a61672@MSAPIRO>

Carl Zwanzig wrote:
>
>You could filter messages discarding anything with the X-BeenThere header, 
>this would prevent any message that came out of mailman from being processed 
>again. OTOH I suspect that an announce-only list would be preferable.


MUAs generally do not copy X-BeenThere: headers into replies. If they
did, it would be impossible to reply to a list post as Mailman ignores
any post to a list with an X-BeenThere: header from that list in order
to prevent mail loops resulting from 'circular' list memberships.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ghe at slsware.com  Mon Sep 19 00:32:54 2011
From: ghe at slsware.com (Glenn English)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 16:32:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] serious newbie here
In-Reply-To: <PC19520110918093512034315c561a3@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19520110918093512034315c561a3@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <DB2FDA93-55B0-4FB7-9327-07566A687BC3@slsware.com>


On Sep 18, 2011, at 10:35 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> One of my users sent out a mailing this morning, and 18% of them bounced. All the bounce reports (from remote MTAs) said things about bad addresses. He says this has happened before, but when he made another list, of only the bounces, a lot of them worked.
>> 
>> I can't think of any way this can happen. Have any of you seen something like this?
> 
> 
> This seems quite strange. It is almost certainly not a Mailman issue
> per se unless the bounces complained specifically about the envelope
> sender of the message (LISTNAME-bounces at LIST.DOMAIN).
> 
> Check your Postfix log for the delivery of some of the bounced mail. In
> particular, look at the receiving MTA for the mail that bounced vs.
> mail to the same address that didn't bounce. Possibly some DNS glitch
> caused the first batch to be routed via an incorrect MX.

Thanks for the suggestions. But the vast majority of the bounces talked about 'no user' or 'mailbox full'. And there were a bunch of non-exstant domains (according to whois, not just DNS). I looked through every one this morning, and they all look like completely legit bounces to me. Fortunately, it's a small list.

My user *claims* he's sent successfully to some of these bounced addys, but I haven't seen any. So I'm going to tell him to delete those and pretend like they never existed. Or show me some.

I've never run a mailing list on my server before, and it's not at all trivial, keeping track of all those people. I found SMTP and IP errors this morning that I've heard of, but never seen before.

Thanks again. I think I'm going to decide that Mailman and Postfix are fine; he just needs to keep his list up to date. Unless somebody can suggest something more fun...

-- 
Glenn English




From servingsoon at gmail.com  Mon Sep 19 02:27:19 2011
From: servingsoon at gmail.com (Serving Soon)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 20:27:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List address substitute with subscriber address
Message-ID: <CADqBL7Twp56cU0j6RcMPbmT1MBiV77zt1GMyJBtW5wtTPs3zug@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am setting up an announcement list (one way list) for the first time.
Everything works fine as per guides but for one thing I can't find a
solution to.

Can I substitute the list address with the subscriber address?

When I send an email to my list it looks like this in my subscribers inbox:

From:  myemail at example.com
    To:  listname at example.com

Could this be made to look like:

From:  myemail at example.com
    To:  final recipient email at remote domain.com

Where can I learn about such configuration please?

Are there any pitfalls I need to be aware of?

:)

Serving

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Sep 19 05:42:10 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 20:42:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List address substitute with subscriber address
In-Reply-To: <CADqBL7Twp56cU0j6RcMPbmT1MBiV77zt1GMyJBtW5wtTPs3zug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011091820421002658bc90953@MSAPIRO>

Serving Soon wrote:
>
>When I send an email to my list it looks like this in my subscribers inbox:
>
>From:  myemail at example.com
>    To:  listname at example.com
>
>Could this be made to look like:
>
>From:  myemail at example.com
>    To:  final recipient email at remote domain.com


What you want is called "full personalization". See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/UYA9> for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From harrison at utm.edu  Mon Sep 19 20:53:52 2011
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 18:53:52 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sudden problem with mailman sending out traffic
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B23E171661@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>

Mailman has been running well for months.  All of a sudden no traffic is not going out.  /var/log/maillog shows no errors.
Mailman's smtp-failure shows:

Sep 19 13:31:32 2011 (1215) delivery to wilbcros at ut.utm.edu failed with code -1: (101, 'Network is unreachable')
Sep 19 13:31:32 2011 (1215) delivery to briabrew at ut.utm.edu failed with code -1: (101, 'Network is unreachable')
Sep 19 13:31:35 2011 (1215) Low level smtp error: (101, 'Network is unreachable'), msgid: <mailman.6.1316457053.1213.junk-l at mailman.utm.edu>
Sep 19 13:31:35 2011 (1215) delivery to harrison at utm.edu failed with code -1: (101, 'Network is unreachable')
Sep 19 13:31:38 2011 (1215) Low level smtp error: (101, 'Network is unreachable'), msgid: <mailman.7.1316457053.1213.junk-l at mailman.utm.edu>
Sep 19 13:31:38 2011 (1215) delivery to junk-l-owner at mailman.utm.edu failed with code -1: (101, 'Network is unreachable')
Sep 19 13:31:47 2011 (1215) Low level smtp error: (101, 'Network is unreachable'), msgid: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B23CE035E9 at EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
Sep 19 13:31:47 2011 (1215) delivery to harrison at utm.edu failed with code -1: (101, 'Network is unreachable')
Sep 19 13:31:47 2011 (1215) delivery to afortner at utm.edu failed with code -1: (101, 'Network is unreachable')
Sep 19 13:31:47 2011 (1215) delivery to tlewis at utm.edu failed with code -1: (101, 'Network is unreachable')

I can ping and telnet to the upstream mail agent.
This seems to have just started happening this morning.  Upstream mail agent is an exchange system front end.  Exchange is running fine, etc.
Exchange guy is looking at logs...

Any ideas anyone ?


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep 20 02:41:33 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 17:41:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sudden problem with mailman sending out traffic
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B23E171661@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B23E171661@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <4E77E13D.1000901@msapiro.net>

On 9/19/2011 11:53 AM, Bruce Harrison wrote:
> Mailman has been running well for months.  All of a sudden no traffic is not going out.  /var/log/maillog shows no errors.
> Mailman's smtp-failure shows:
> 
> Sep 19 13:31:32 2011 (1215) delivery to wilbcros at ut.utm.edu failed with code -1: (101, 'Network is unreachable')
> Sep 19 13:31:32 2011 (1215) delivery to briabrew at ut.utm.edu failed with code -1: (101, 'Network is unreachable')
> Sep 19 13:31:35 2011 (1215) Low level smtp error: (101, 'Network is unreachable'), msgid: <mailman.6.1316457053.1213.junk-l at mailman.utm.edu>
> Sep 19 13:31:35 2011 (1215) delivery to harrison at utm.edu failed with code -1: (101, 'Network is unreachable')
> Sep 19 13:31:38 2011 (1215) Low level smtp error: (101, 'Network is unreachable'), msgid: <mailman.7.1316457053.1213.junk-l at mailman.utm.edu>
> Sep 19 13:31:38 2011 (1215) delivery to junk-l-owner at mailman.utm.edu failed with code -1: (101, 'Network is unreachable')
> Sep 19 13:31:47 2011 (1215) Low level smtp error: (101, 'Network is unreachable'), msgid: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B23CE035E9 at EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
> Sep 19 13:31:47 2011 (1215) delivery to harrison at utm.edu failed with code -1: (101, 'Network is unreachable')
> Sep 19 13:31:47 2011 (1215) delivery to afortner at utm.edu failed with code -1: (101, 'Network is unreachable')
> Sep 19 13:31:47 2011 (1215) delivery to tlewis at utm.edu failed with code -1: (101, 'Network is unreachable')
> 
> I can ping and telnet to the upstream mail agent.
> This seems to have just started happening this morning.  Upstream mail agent is an exchange system front end.  Exchange is running fine, etc.
> Exchange guy is looking at logs...


Please see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9> and, if necessary,
the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/AoE9> and the list posts linked
therefrom.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dadoonan at gmail.com  Tue Sep 20 15:38:41 2011
From: dadoonan at gmail.com (david doonan)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 09:38:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] settings changed?
Message-ID: <CAM+1Pc_kRFzONeSZ_Pa_H57Y=_mo1ZiOi2W_uf_U0t-E9xr57Q@mail.gmail.com>

One of my clients is managing a mailman list, version 2.1.13.

He tells me that he has NOT changed any of the admin settings, but
starting yesterday, all messages from authorized users are being held
for moderation. Any idea what I should be looking for?

thanks,
david

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 21 16:47:18 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 07:47:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] settings changed?
In-Reply-To: <CAM+1Pc_kRFzONeSZ_Pa_H57Y=_mo1ZiOi2W_uf_U0t-E9xr57Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011092107471809681a50975a@MSAPIRO>

david doonan wrote:

>One of my clients is managing a mailman list, version 2.1.13.
>
>He tells me that he has NOT changed any of the admin settings, but
>starting yesterday, all messages from authorized users are being held
>for moderation. Any idea what I should be looking for?


The reason why the message is held. You can find this reason in
Mailman's vette log, in notices to the admin about the held post(s)
and in the list's admindb interface when a post is held.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 22 16:45:37 2011
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:45:37 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman logs..
Message-ID: <COL105-DS62B06ED5F595D03B26A67FB0C0@phx.gbl>

Hello ??? anyone ??
From: Khalil Abbas 
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 12:45 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org 
Subject: mailman logs..

hi,

is there a manual for understanding mailman logs??

I need to know which addresses were unsubscribed from the list by clicking the un-subscribe link or sent an email to be removed from the list, (I have the list administrator notification disabled).. and which users were unsubscribed due to excessive bounces and which members currently disabled..

thanks..


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Thu Sep 22 16:49:38 2011
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 16:49:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman logs..
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS62B06ED5F595D03B26A67FB0C0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL105-DS62B06ED5F595D03B26A67FB0C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20110922144938.GZ18064@charite.de>

* Khalil Abbas <khillo100 at hotmail.com>:
> Hello ??? anyone ??

I already answered. You should try reading the answers

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From emre.eryilmaz at piesso.com  Wed Sep 21 23:06:25 2011
From: emre.eryilmaz at piesso.com (Emre Eryilmaz)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:06:25 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 403 forbidden
Message-ID: <CAM9cy8uFAQHVWe=hDCXG6QoMFGgBhSwgNLe1AKo76ySAV0QXGw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I cant reach public archive of my mailman lists.It gives 403 Forbidden
error.
Also I have got another problem (may be this can be the source of a previous
problem ).when I give "check_perms" cmmand to check the permissions of the
directory,I get the following output:

""""""""""*******************"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
/var/lib/mailman/mail bad group (has: root, expected list)
/var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin bad group (has: root, expected list)
/var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root, expected list)
/var/lib/mailman/Mailman bad group (has: root, expected list)
/var/lib/mailman/bin bad group (has: root, expected list)
/var/lib/mailman/icons bad group (has: root, expected list)
/var/lib/mailman/templates bad group (has: root, expected list)
/var/lib/mailman/locks bad group (has: root, expected list)
/var/lib/mailman/scripts bad group (has: root, expected list)
/var/lib/mailman/cron bad group (has: root, expected list)

""""""""""*******************"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Then I tried to fix the permissions with "check_perms -f" command and the
output is below :

/var/lib/mailman/mail bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/Mailman bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/icons bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/templates bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/locks bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/scripts bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/cron bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)


although it says "fixing" there is nothing change.Because again when I give
check_perms command ,it gives same output(I mean first output above).

Do you have any suggestion about this situation ?how can I fix these
problems?
Thanks :)

From dadoonan at mac.com  Wed Sep 21 16:56:32 2011
From: dadoonan at mac.com (David Doonan)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 10:56:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] settings changed?
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011092107471809681a50975a@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1952011092107471809681a50975a@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <8657D133-3BE4-48E7-A0C7-510C32F78290@mac.com>

The site has two admins. One contacted me about the problem. Before I  
had time to investigate, the other admin fixed the problem, which is  
why I couldn't find anything wrong.

david


On Sep 21, 2011, at 10:47 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> david doonan wrote:
>
>> One of my clients is managing a mailman list, version 2.1.13.
>>
>> He tells me that he has NOT changed any of the admin settings, but
>> starting yesterday, all messages from authorized users are being held
>> for moderation. Any idea what I should be looking for?
>
>
> The reason why the message is held. You can find this reason in
> Mailman's vette log, in notices to the admin about the held post(s)
> and in the list's admindb interface when a post is held.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep 22 18:23:43 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 09:23:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 403 forbidden
In-Reply-To: <CAM9cy8uFAQHVWe=hDCXG6QoMFGgBhSwgNLe1AKo76ySAV0QXGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201109220923430467816ed03e@MSAPIRO>

Emre Eryilmaz wrote:
>
>I cant reach public archive of my mailman lists.It gives 403 Forbidden
>error.


Most likely you need something like

<Directory "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public">
    Options +FollowSymLinks
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

in your web server config. Also, see
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.


[...]
>Then I tried to fix the permissions with "check_perms -f" command and the
>output is below :
>
>/var/lib/mailman/mail bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/Mailman bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/icons bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/templates bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/locks bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/scripts bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/cron bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>
>
>although it says "fixing" there is nothing change.Because again when I give
>check_perms command ,it gives same output(I mean first output above).
>
>Do you have any suggestion about this situation ?how can I fix these
>problems?


The check_perms issue is not a problem per se. The issue is that all
those things check_perms are complaining about are symlinks. See
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site:mail.python.org+inurl%3Amailman-users+check_perms+symlink>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Mon Sep 26 00:26:28 2011
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 18:26:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED: Mailman 3.0 alpha 8
Message-ID: <20110925182628.30cd0a0c@resist.wooz.org>

I am very happy to announce the release of the eighth alpha for Mailman 3.0,
code named "Where's My Thing?".  This is the last planned alpha release, as I
want to work toward the first beta in order to meet my goal of an 11/11/11
final release (of the core engine at least).

If you've been holding off looking at Mailman 3, I invite you to do so now.
Once beta 1 is released I will not be adding any new features.  I do hope to
put up a few live test lists soon, so stay tuned.

There have been a large number of fixes and new features, especially in the
REST API.  My thanks go to Stephen Goss who has contributed greatly to this
release, with bug reports, wish list items, patches, and merge proposals.
Full details of what's new in 3.0a8 is available here:

    http://tinyurl.com/6yxgclf

The tarball can be downloaded from Launchpad or the Cheeseshop:

    https://launchpad.net/mailman
    http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailman/3.0.0a8

The full documentation is also online:

    http://packages.python.org/mailman/

Enjoy,
-Barry
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 836 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20110925/5642593a/attachment.pgp>

From paulweinx at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 27 16:00:08 2011
From: paulweinx at hotmail.com (=?utf-8?B?UGFibG8gR2FyY8OtYSBPamVkYQ==?=)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:00:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send parameters to build a personalized unsubscribe
	link
Message-ID: <COL116-W47DFC733CE93B6F2DB9D32AAF00@phx.gbl>


First of all, sorry for comparing phplist with Dad Mailman, but I refuse to switch to phplist and i need to know how you can do the same things in Mailman that i describe here. 
For start, I can send an email to a mailman list and it delivers the mail to the members itself, and phplist simply can't, although there's a plugin that says do this work but requires a last click by the user and i need a complete automatic system that generates cronjobs for saying mailman "send this email for me that i'm going to the Caribbean islands". 
For everything else, and asuming that I will not use the Mailman GUI, even i'll only do calls for subscribe and unsubscribe members with curl function from my codeigniter app??:

 1. How I can customize mailman for the unsubscribe link does not point to the mailman gui but a url of my app where they can automatically unsubscribe?

 2. A phplist can be given custom attributes of each member subscribed, that they can be used within the body of emails for personalize them. This makes me rather badly needed to implement the previous step, because the automatic unsubscribe can not just like "http://url/unsubscribe/id_member, because any robot could eliminate the entire database simply doing for member = 1 to all_members => curl http://url/unsubscribe/member. So I need the url of the unsubscribe link is like http://url/unsubscribe?id = (md5 of the combination of various parameters of that particular subscriber).

 I hope I explained well, and that someone has needed it at any moment of his life. I will not do spam, all my suscribers want and need to receive the information i send, but all the links "If you don't want to receive it anymore" i know, are like http://domain.com/unsubscribe?guid=cafca76ca876cf87cfa8fac68a75cfa875 (for example).

Thanks!! 
 		 	   		  

From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Tue Sep 27 18:10:34 2011
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 12:10:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply filter
Message-ID: <4E81F57A.7050906@Damon-Family.org>

I run a large community based mailing list using mailman (version 2.1.9, 
I know a bit old, but that is what the hosting service provides) and I 
have a couple of users that while normally ok, at times get into 
arguments with each other on the list. A thought came up, would it be 
possible to configure the list so that if one of these persons replies 
to a message from another, the message gets held for review. The people 
are a bit lazy, so when they do the reply all (list is setup so reply 
goes to sender, reply all goes to list and send) the other persons email 
shows up a To: or Cc:

The question is, can a spam filter be set up to check both the From 
fields and the To/CC fields?

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep 27 23:33:36 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 14:33:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply filter
In-Reply-To: <4E81F57A.7050906@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201109271433360468264b67b8@MSAPIRO>

Richard Damon wrote:
>
>The question is, can a spam filter be set up to check both the From 
>fields and the To/CC fields?


Yes, but it's awkward at best. header_filter_rules are Python regular
expressions that are matched against the entire set of message headers
in MULTILINE and IGNORECASE mode. The awkwardness comes about because
you don't know if the From: precedes or follows the To: or Cc: so you
need to check both possibilities. A regexp like

^From:.*user1 at example\.com[^\177]*^(To:|Cc:).*user2 at example\.net'

will match a From: header containing user1 at example.com followed by a
To: or Cc: header containing user2 at example.net.

Note the use of [^\177]* to skip all the intervening headers between
From: and To: or Cc:. [^\177] will match anything that isn't a rubout
(octal 177, hex 7F) including newlines. There should be no rubouts in
email message headers. You can't use .* here because . won't match a
newline, and you can't use (?s) to set 'dot matches all' because that
would allow .*user1 at example\.com to match beyond the From: header.

Then you could add a second regexp to the rule

^(To:|Cc:).*user1 at example\.com[^\177]*^From:.*user2 at example\.net'

to cover the case where the To: or Cc: precedes From: and then add two
more with the roles of user1 and user2 reversed.

You might get away with combining all this into one as

^(From:|To:|Cc:).*(user1 at example\.com|user2 at example\.net)[^\177]*^(From:|To:|Cc:).*(user1 at example\.com|user2 at example\.net)'

(all on one line). This would match any From:, To: or Cc: containing
either user1 at example.com followed by a From:, To: or Cc: containing
user2 at example.net. The drawback of this all in one is it would match a
message From: a 3rd party To: one of the users with Cc: to the other
and would match a message from one of the users with a Cc: to herself.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Wed Sep 28 00:07:01 2011
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 18:07:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply filter
In-Reply-To: <PC195201109271433360468264b67b8@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201109271433360468264b67b8@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E824905.5080305@Damon-Family.org>

On 9/27/11 5:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Richard Damon wrote:
>> The question is, can a spam filter be set up to check both the From
>> fields and the To/CC fields?
>
> Yes, but it's awkward at best. header_filter_rules are Python regular
> expressions that are matched against the entire set of message headers
> in MULTILINE and IGNORECASE mode. The awkwardness comes about because
> you don't know if the From: precedes or follows the To: or Cc: so you
> need to check both possibilities. A regexp like
>
> ^From:.*user1 at example\.com[^\177]*^(To:|Cc:).*user2 at example\.net'
>
> will match a From: header containing user1 at example.com followed by a
> To: or Cc: header containing user2 at example.net.
>
> Note the use of [^\177]* to skip all the intervening headers between
> From: and To: or Cc:. [^\177] will match anything that isn't a rubout
> (octal 177, hex 7F) including newlines. There should be no rubouts in
> email message headers. You can't use .* here because . won't match a
> newline, and you can't use (?s) to set 'dot matches all' because that
> would allow .*user1 at example\.com to match beyond the From: header.
>
> Then you could add a second regexp to the rule
>
> ^(To:|Cc:).*user1 at example\.com[^\177]*^From:.*user2 at example\.net'
>
> to cover the case where the To: or Cc: precedes From: and then add two
> more with the roles of user1 and user2 reversed.
>
> You might get away with combining all this into one as
>
> ^(From:|To:|Cc:).*(user1 at example\.com|user2 at example\.net)[^\177]*^(From:|To:|Cc:).*(user1 at example\.com|user2 at example\.net)'
>
> (all on one line). This would match any From:, To: or Cc: containing
> either user1 at example.com followed by a From:, To: or Cc: containing
> user2 at example.net. The drawback of this all in one is it would match a
> message From: a 3rd party To: one of the users with Cc: to the other
> and would match a message from one of the users with a Cc: to herself.
>
Thank you, the [^\177]* should be the trick to get the filter to scan 
over multiple lines. Will have to think about handling the unknown order 
of the tag. I don't think it is a problem catching messages they sent cc 
to themselves, and a message to both of them could be worth looking at 
too, likely A (not one of them) posted something, B (one of them) 
replied to A and list, C (another of them) replies back to A, B and the 
list a scathing reply that is rejected, but A (being CC by C) replies 
back to B, C and the list, quoting that material.



From malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk  Wed Sep 28 11:06:38 2011
From: malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk (Malcolm Austen)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 10:06:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply filter
In-Reply-To: <4E81F57A.7050906@Damon-Family.org>
References: <4E81F57A.7050906@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <op.v2igxcz9g14ka7@oucs-hue.oucs.ox.ac.uk>

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:10:34 +0100, Richard Damon  
<Richard at damon-family.org> wrote:

> I run a large community based mailing list using mailman (version 2.1.9,  
> I know a bit old, but that is what the hosting service provides) and I  
> have a couple of users that while normally ok, at times get into  
> arguments with each other on the list. A thought came up, would it be  
> possible to configure the list so that if one of these persons replies  
> to a message from another, the message gets held for review. The people  
> are a bit lazy, so when they do the reply all (list is setup so reply  
> goes to sender, reply all goes to list and send) the other persons email  
> shows up a To: or Cc:

Mark's solution is, of course, more technically elegant than what I'm abut  
to suggest but I wonder if, trying to think sideways a little, you could  
catch the majority of the messages you wish to moderate by one or both of:
  - set 'max_num_recipients' to 2 so anything with a Cc is caught
  - set a spam trap for anything that already has [subject-prefix] in the  
subject line.

= Malcolm.

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Wed Sep 28 14:39:19 2011
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 08:39:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply filter
In-Reply-To: <op.v2igxcz9g14ka7@oucs-hue.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
References: <4E81F57A.7050906@Damon-Family.org>
	<op.v2igxcz9g14ka7@oucs-hue.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4E831577.1050302@Damon-Family.org>

On 9/28/11 5:06 AM, Malcolm Austen wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:10:34 +0100, Richard Damon 
> <Richard at damon-family.org> wrote:
>
>> I run a large community based mailing list using mailman (version 
>> 2.1.9, I know a bit old, but that is what the hosting service 
>> provides) and I have a couple of users that while normally ok, at 
>> times get into arguments with each other on the list. A thought came 
>> up, would it be possible to configure the list so that if one of 
>> these persons replies to a message from another, the message gets 
>> held for review. The people are a bit lazy, so when they do the reply 
>> all (list is setup so reply goes to sender, reply all goes to list 
>> and send) the other persons email shows up a To: or Cc:
>
> Mark's solution is, of course, more technically elegant than what I'm 
> abut to suggest but I wonder if, trying to think sideways a little, 
> you could catch the majority of the messages you wish to moderate by 
> one or both of:
>  - set 'max_num_recipients' to 2 so anything with a Cc is caught
>  - set a spam trap for anything that already has [subject-prefix] in 
> the subject line.
>
> = Malcolm.
>
That would catch EVERYONES replies to posts, which I don't want. There 
are a couple of small groups that just don't see eye to eye on some 
issues, and sometimes go after each other. Since the list gets about 100 
messages a day, I don't want to do anything that causes a large number 
of messages to end up in the moderation queue.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 28 17:00:50 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 08:00:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send parameters to build a personalized
 unsubscribe link
In-Reply-To: <COL116-W47DFC733CE93B6F2DB9D32AAF00@phx.gbl>
References: <COL116-W47DFC733CE93B6F2DB9D32AAF00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4E8336A2.1090203@msapiro.net>

On 9/27/2011 7:00 AM, Pablo Garc?a Ojeda wrote:
> 
>  1. How I can customize mailman for the unsubscribe link does not point to the mailman gui but a url of my app where they can automatically unsubscribe?
> 
>  2. A phplist can be given custom attributes of each member subscribed, that they can be used within the body of emails for personalize them. This makes me rather badly needed to implement the previous step, because the automatic unsubscribe can not just like "http://url/unsubscribe/id_member, because any robot could eliminate the entire database simply doing for member = 1 to all_members => curl http://url/unsubscribe/member. So I need the url of the unsubscribe link is like http://url/unsubscribe?id = (md5 of the combination of various parameters of that particular subscriber).


If you would be satisfied with a footer with a personalized unsubscribe
link on only individual messages and not on digests (because Mailman
doesn't personalize digests), you can do all except the hash with
standard Mailman. See the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/UYA9> and
<http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9> for more information and caveats.

In order to add the hash, you would need to hack the
Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py module to calculate the hash and add an
additional replacement for it to the "extra personalization dictionary".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lleecc at optusnet.com.au  Thu Sep 29 15:17:18 2011
From: lleecc at optusnet.com.au (Laurie Lee)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 23:17:18 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A dumb first question
Message-ID: <000101cc7eaa$1d87c940$58975bc0$@optusnet.com.au>

Greetings,
My first question which may seem dumb for those of you with lots of
experience.
If I create a 800 member Mailman list and send a single message to it, what
will happen if the list is on  a Cpanel site with mail send restrictions of
200 messages per hour?


Cheers 8^)

Laurie Lee





From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep 29 20:16:20 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 11:16:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A dumb first question
In-Reply-To: <000101cc7eaa$1d87c940$58975bc0$@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <PC195201109291116200280254cdbac@MSAPIRO>

Laurie Lee wrote:

>Greetings,
>My first question which may seem dumb for those of you with lots of
>experience.
>If I create a 800 member Mailman list and send a single message to it, what
>will happen if the list is on  a Cpanel site with mail send restrictions of
>200 messages per hour?


It depends on a number of things.

There are installation-wide settings in Mailman that affect how
messages are sent. They can be sent as individual messages with one
recipient per message or as messages with perhaps as many as 500
recipients to one message.

In the best case, if the mail server accepts the first 200 recipients
and returns a temporary failure for the rest, Mailman will keep
retrying until the message is sent to all recipients.

In the worst case, Mailman will send a message with >200 recipients and
the mail server will reject all recipients. If the reject is a
permanent failure, this will result in 'bounces' for all recipients.
If the reject is a temporary failure, Mailman will keep trying, but
since the recipient list doesn't decrease, it will keep failing until
after up to 5 days, Mailman gives up and records 'bounces'.

There are other possible combinations in between.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lleecc at optusnet.com.au  Fri Sep 30 02:33:10 2011
From: lleecc at optusnet.com.au (Laurie Lee)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 10:33:10 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A dumb first question
In-Reply-To: <PC195201109291116200280254cdbac@MSAPIRO>
References: <000101cc7eaa$1d87c940$58975bc0$@optusnet.com.au>
	<PC195201109291116200280254cdbac@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <000f01cc7f08$89084bf0$9b18e3d0$@optusnet.com.au>

Mark,
Thank you for the info. I've looked through the options available to me as a
list owner and clearly I have no direct way of changing the "set" outcome.
As you say this is an "installation-wide setting". 

My next question: Is there a simple way that I can determine what this
"installation-wide setting" is, short of testing and seeing what happens?
Messy.
My final question: The managers of my hosting say that they make available
but don't support Mailman. Is there a "default" set up; the likely
installation; for Mailman Ver 2.1.14 on a Cpanel  Ver 11 site/hosting?
 

Cheers 8^)

Laurie Lee

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2011 4:16 AM
To: Laurie Lee; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] A dumb first question

Laurie Lee wrote:

>If I create a 800 member Mailman list and send a single message to it, 
>what will happen if the list is on  a Cpanel site with mail send 
>restrictions of
>200 messages per hour?


It depends on a number of things.

There are installation-wide settings in Mailman that affect how messages are
sent. They can be sent as individual messages with one recipient per message
or as messages with perhaps as many as 500 recipients to one message.

In the best case, if the mail server accepts the first 200 recipients and
returns a temporary failure for the rest, Mailman will keep retrying until
the message is sent to all recipients.

In the worst case, Mailman will send a message with >200 recipients and the
mail server will reject all recipients. If the reject is a permanent
failure, this will result in 'bounces' for all recipients.
If the reject is a temporary failure, Mailman will keep trying, but since
the recipient list doesn't decrease, it will keep failing until after up to
5 days, Mailman gives up and records 'bounces'.

There are other possible combinations in between.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep 30 03:23:13 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:23:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A dumb first question
In-Reply-To: <000f01cc7f08$89084bf0$9b18e3d0$@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <PC195201109291823130545263e692e@MSAPIRO>

Laurie Lee wrote:

>Thank you for the info. I've looked through the options available to me as a
>list owner and clearly I have no direct way of changing the "set" outcome.
>As you say this is an "installation-wide setting". 
>
>My next question: Is there a simple way that I can determine what this
>"installation-wide setting" is, short of testing and seeing what happens?


In cPanel, the Mailman installation is usually in
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman (see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+and+CPanel>)

If you have access to that directory, you can look at the file
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py for settings like

VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1

which would cause every message from mailman to be sent individually
with an envelope sender containing an encoding of the recipient, and

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS

which sets the maximum number of recipients per SMTP transaction for
messages which aren't VERPed or personalized.

You can read more about these settings and their default values in
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.

Note that even if SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is less than 200 or VERP is enabled on
all messages, if the outgoing MTA rejects the messages beyond the
initial 200 recipients with a permanent failure (5xx status). These
rejects will be recorded as bounces and that message won't be
delivered to those recipients.


>Messy.
>My final question: The managers of my hosting say that they make available
>but don't support Mailman. Is there a "default" set up; the likely
>installation; for Mailman Ver 2.1.14 on a Cpanel  Ver 11 site/hosting?


I have no idea. The cPanel installations I have seen are pretty much
default in these respects which means no VERPing, no personalized
deliveries and SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500.

The real issue however is what does the MTA do with a message with >
200 recipients.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Roberto.Luco at activfinancial.com  Thu Sep 29 20:19:30 2011
From: Roberto.Luco at activfinancial.com (Roberto Luco)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:19:30 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on how to create new administrator ids
 for our mailman site
Message-ID: <0DDE03953AE06F4AA98D30043D610E879E04AA18@exch2-40r.activfinancial.com>

Initially posted to incorrect address. Mark was gracious enough to respond to the initial post, which I include here.

Question:

Mailman seems to have only one administrator user, and anybody the needs to do administrative work on the site (member admin, configuration, approval and forwarding of member email, etc) needs to sign in as "admin." We would like to create different admin users, so that you could sign in as somebody other "admin," but be able to perform admin functions. The admin login page only allows to enter a password, so no matter who logs in, to mailman you are just "admin," even though there might be several people who are allowed to perform admin operations. Having different admin ids would hopefully make it easier to track the activities of the admins.

I have been looking for a way to create admin ids in the documentation, and have not been able to find it. Does this mean that it is not possible to have an admin id that is not in mailman? Is mailman designed to have a single entry point for an admin? Any help would be appreciated on this.

Mark Sapiro responded:


This capability will exist in Mailman 3 but not before.


Thanks,

Roberto Luco

________________________________

This electronic message contains information from ACTIV Financial Systems, Inc. which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify us by telephone or email (to the numbers or address above) immediately. Internet communications are not secure and therefore ACTIV does not accept any legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Although ACTIV operates anti-virus programs, it does not accept responsibility for any damage whatsoever that is caused by viruses that may be passed.

From macek at fortech.cz  Fri Sep 30 15:29:34 2011
From: macek at fortech.cz (Tomas Macek)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:29:34 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] separate advertised option for web and mail
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.02.1109301518020.25164@maca.fortech.cz>

I'm using Mailman 2.1.12 from the distribution package of Scientific Linux 
6.1. I found in source code, that when 'advertised = 1' and if server's 
hostname is eqal to the configured url, the mailing list name appears in 
web interface. But also the mailing list is present in the mail, when 
someone asks what mailling lists are on this machine.

I would like to have an option to be able to advertise the list on the web 
page and 
separate option to advertise the mailing list via email, because I don't 
want to publish the mailing list names to the mail and still want to be 
able to manage them on the web interface.

Is there anything new in newer Mailman versions? First look at the 
changelog did not helped.

Tomas

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep 30 17:17:42 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:17:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] separate advertised option for web and mail
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.02.1109301518020.25164@maca.fortech.cz>
Message-ID: <PC1952011093008174203599d233691@MSAPIRO>

Tomas Macek wrote:

>I'm using Mailman 2.1.12 from the distribution package of Scientific Linux 
>6.1. I found in source code, that when 'advertised = 1' and if server's 
>hostname is eqal to the configured url, the mailing list name appears in 
>web interface. But also the mailing list is present in the mail, when 
>someone asks what mailling lists are on this machine.
>
>I would like to have an option to be able to advertise the list on the web 
>page and 
>separate option to advertise the mailing list via email, because I don't 
>want to publish the mailing list names to the mail and still want to be 
>able to manage them on the web interface.
>
>Is there anything new in newer Mailman versions? First look at the 
>changelog did not helped.


There is nothing new on this in newer versions, nor is there likely to
be.

You can administer any list via the web, whether or not it is
advertised on the listinfo or admin overview pages, by simply
appending a slash and its name to the listinfo or admin URL. E.g.,
<http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/listname>.

Further, if you did have a separate switch for email 'lists' vs the web
overviews, what prevents users from going to the web overview to find
the lists?

Finally, it doesn't seem you'd need two switches in any case. You could
just skip the advertised check in Mailman/Cgi/admin.py and show all
lists regardless of advertised on the admin overview, but nothing
would prevent users from seeing them there too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptcox at camden.rutgers.edu  Fri Sep 30 17:34:29 2011
From: ptcox at camden.rutgers.edu (Patrick Cox)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:34:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] editing?
Message-ID: <CAJBicq+c+P0uSM24vb0pinp=tzpfxt-aVEk92ZTa5HT-U4SUaQ@mail.gmail.com>

Is there no way to edit posts on a mailman list? Messages often come with
notes from the author like, "Could you please post this to your listserve?"
Other kinds of edits are sometimes needed too. But when I go to where I can
view the message before approving it on my administration page, I can't. I
can see the whole message in what looks like a text box, and I believe I can
even click on it and place my cursor there. But I cannot delete and text or
type new text.

Patrick
-- 
Patrick Cox
PhD Student
http://camden-rutgers.academia.edu/PatrickCox
Department of Childhood Studies, Rutgers University
http://childhood.camden.rutgers.edu/
https://email.rutgers.edu/mailman/listinfo/exploring_childhood_studies
http://facultyexperts.blogs.rutgers.edu/





"In the depths of winter I finally learned there was in me an invincible
summer."
--Albert Camus


"Don't let your studies interfere with your education."
--Colonel Henry Rutgers

"the jUdges of nOrmalitY are present everywhere."
--Foucault, of course

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep 30 17:46:29 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:46:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] editing?
In-Reply-To: <CAJBicq+c+P0uSM24vb0pinp=tzpfxt-aVEk92ZTa5HT-U4SUaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201109300846290359e5815c04@MSAPIRO>

Patrick Cox wrote:

>Is there no way to edit posts on a mailman list? Messages often come with
>notes from the author like, "Could you please post this to your listserve?"
>Other kinds of edits are sometimes needed too. But when I go to where I can
>view the message before approving it on my administration page, I can't. I
>can see the whole message in what looks like a text box, and I believe I can
>even click on it and place my cursor there. But I cannot delete and text or
>type new text.


There is a patch to enable this at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/557995>. It may need some
revision for recent versions.

Also see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/24A9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan