From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Sat Oct  1 11:00:23 2011
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2011 05:00:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing Monthly Reminder
Message-ID: <4E86D6A7.2010200@bellsouth.net>

I am trying to customize my monthly password reminder for a specific
list. As I understood the documentation, in 'templates' I had to create
the directory path 'lists/<list name>/en' and place an edited copy of
'userpass.txt' into it. However, when the monthly reminder is sent, it
uses the original default text for the reminder. What am I
misunderstanding about the hierarchy of customized files? TIA.

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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Oct  3 04:45:31 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 19:45:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing Monthly Reminder
In-Reply-To: <4E86D6A7.2010200@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201110021945310656fce9096f@MSAPIRO>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>I am trying to customize my monthly password reminder for a specific
>list. As I understood the documentation, in 'templates' I had to create
>the directory path 'lists/<list name>/en' and place an edited copy of
>'userpass.txt' into it. However, when the monthly reminder is sent, it
>uses the original default text for the reminder. What am I
>misunderstanding about the hierarchy of customized files? TIA.


First of all, the template for monthly reminders is cronpass.txt, not
userpass.txt. userpass.txt is for 'on demand' reminders, but that
isn't the only issue.

A second issue is list specific templates do not go in
templates/lists/<listname>/<lc>/. They go in a language (en or
whatever) directory in the already existing lists/<listname> directory
(the directory that contains config.pck), but there is yet another
issue.

Monthly password reminders are sent from the site (mailman) list. A
single reminder message includes passwords for all lists with the same
host_name to which the recipient is subscribed with reminders enabled.
Thus, the template is processed without a list context, and a
customized cronpass.txt template placed in a list directory will not
be consulted. You have to put it in templates/site/en/cronpass.txt or
templates/<host_name>/en/cronpass.txt, and it will apply to reminders
for all lists or all lists with that host_name.

I have just updated the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9> to mention
this fact.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Oct  3 15:46:32 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 06:46:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DEFAULT_NEW_MEMBER_OPTIONS apology
Message-ID: <2523a266-9f25-4b4b-832a-d410351ebaad@email.android.com>

I accidently deleted a post waiting moderation about new_member_options and topics.

Please repost.
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

From Michela.Botti at caspur.it  Mon Oct  3 17:04:27 2011
From: Michela.Botti at caspur.it (Michela Botti)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 17:04:27 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting new_member_options flag (fwd)
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1110031658340.3175@civita.caspur.it>

Hello all,

I would like to set the flag ReceiveNonmatchingTopics
for new members of my list. If I understand correctly, what I need to do is
to change DEFAULT_NEW_MEMBER_OPTIONS from the default value of 256 to 320 in
mm_cfg.py.
In fact, when a new list is created, the new_member_options is set correctly
to 320, but, as I modify some of the settings of the list (e.g.
preferred_language) and I output the configuration file from config_list, I 
find that the new_member_options reset to 256, and it seems impossible to 
change it via the configuration file.

I'm using Mailman 2.13 on Ubuntu.

Am I missing something? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance, all the best

Michela


--
   Michela Botti - PhD

   CASPUR - Consorzio Interuniversitario per le Applicazioni di Supercalcolo
   per Universit? e Ricerca

   Address:	via dei Tizii 6, 00185 Roma (Italia)
   Web:		http://www.caspur.it

   Phone:	06 44486730
   E-mail:	michela.botti at caspur.it
   Homepage:	http://www.caspur.it/~botti

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct  4 03:20:01 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 18:20:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting new_member_options flag (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1110031658340.3175@civita.caspur.it>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1110031658340.3175@civita.caspur.it>
Message-ID: <4E8A5F41.4020406@msapiro.net>

On 10/3/2011 8:04 AM, Michela Botti wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I would like to set the flag ReceiveNonmatchingTopics
> for new members of my list. If I understand correctly, what I need to do is
> to change DEFAULT_NEW_MEMBER_OPTIONS from the default value of 256 to
> 320 in
> mm_cfg.py.
> In fact, when a new list is created, the new_member_options is set
> correctly
> to 320, but, as I modify some of the settings of the list (e.g.
> preferred_language) and I output the configuration file from
> config_list, I find that the new_member_options reset to 256, and it
> seems impossible to change it via the configuration file.


This is really a bug. The problem is whenever you submit any changes to
the list's General Options page, new_member_options is reset to only
those options that are checked on that page. Options other than the four
that are shown on the page are reset.

Because of the same bug, attempts to set option bits other than 2, 4, 16
and 256 via config_list new_member_options= will not succeed.

You can set these other bits by specifying, e.g.

mlist.new_member_options = 360

instead of

new_member_options = 360

in the input to config_list or using withlist, but even if you do, the
first time you submit any changes to the General Options page, the bits
other than the displayed four will be reset.

I have reported this at <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/865825>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jclark at globalmoxie.com  Tue Oct  4 03:48:51 2011
From: jclark at globalmoxie.com (Josh Clark)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 21:48:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail to list disappears
Message-ID: <BAD7D474-E2D7-4559-9690-5B1725AFADC9@globalmoxie.com>

Hi all,

In the last couple of weeks, mail sent to one (and only one) of my moderated lists doesn't get sent out, though other lists in this installation seem to be working fine. The mail is definitely getting relayed to the script. I see entries like this in the mail log:

> Oct  3 20:46:01 houdini postfix/local[22014]: BECC5312879F: to=<muse at houdini.globalmoxie.com>, orig_to=<muse at lists.globalmoxie.com>, relay=local, delay=0.39, delays=0.08/0.01/0/0.3, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post muse)


Mail sent to other lists gets handled correctly, but with this particular list, nothing at all seems to happen. No bounced message, no entries in any of the logs, no trace as far as I can see.

I've cleared the qrunner files and checked permissions, but no luck. Any other suggestions about what I might try?

Many thanks!
Josh


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct  4 08:15:09 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 23:15:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail to list disappears
In-Reply-To: <BAD7D474-E2D7-4559-9690-5B1725AFADC9@globalmoxie.com>
References: <BAD7D474-E2D7-4559-9690-5B1725AFADC9@globalmoxie.com>
Message-ID: <4E8AA46D.2070904@msapiro.net>

On 10/3/2011 6:48 PM, Josh Clark wrote:
> 
> In the last couple of weeks, mail sent to one (and only one) of my
> moderated lists doesn't get sent out, though other lists in this
> installation seem to be working fine. The mail is definitely getting
> relayed to the script. I see entries like this in the mail log:
> 
>> Oct  3 20:46:01 houdini postfix/local[22014]: BECC5312879F:
>> to=<muse at houdini.globalmoxie.com>,
>> orig_to=<muse at lists.globalmoxie.com>, relay=local, delay=0.39,
>> delays=0.08/0.01/0/0.3, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to
>> command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post muse)


OK


> Mail sent to other lists gets handled correctly, but with this
> particular list, nothing at all seems to happen. No bounced message,
> no entries in any of the logs, no trace as far as I can see.
> 
> I've cleared the qrunner files


What exactly do you mean by this?


> and checked permissions, but no luck.
> Any other suggestions about what I might try?


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/noA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Tue Oct  4 17:04:36 2011
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 11:04:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing Monthly Reminder
In-Reply-To: <PC195201110021945310656fce9096f@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201110021945310656fce9096f@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E8B2084.80003@bellsouth.net>

Thanks for the reply. The information that I want to add to the monthly
reminder is specific to the members of one particular list. While I
guess it does not hurt to send it to all lists if I word it correctly,
it would be nice to have list specific reminders. Is there a relatively
simple way around this or is it hard coded? Perhaps this could be added
as a feature for a future release.

On 10/2/2011 10:45 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Dennis Putnam wrote:
>> I am trying to customize my monthly password reminder for a specific
>> list. As I understood the documentation, in 'templates' I had to create
>> the directory path 'lists/<list name>/en' and place an edited copy of
>> 'userpass.txt' into it. However, when the monthly reminder is sent, it
>> uses the original default text for the reminder. What am I
>> misunderstanding about the hierarchy of customized files? TIA.
>
> First of all, the template for monthly reminders is cronpass.txt, not
> userpass.txt. userpass.txt is for 'on demand' reminders, but that
> isn't the only issue.
>
> A second issue is list specific templates do not go in
> templates/lists/<listname>/<lc>/. They go in a language (en or
> whatever) directory in the already existing lists/<listname> directory
> (the directory that contains config.pck), but there is yet another
> issue.
>
> Monthly password reminders are sent from the site (mailman) list. A
> single reminder message includes passwords for all lists with the same
> host_name to which the recipient is subscribed with reminders enabled.
> Thus, the template is processed without a list context, and a
> customized cronpass.txt template placed in a list directory will not
> be consulted. You have to put it in templates/site/en/cronpass.txt or
> templates/<host_name>/en/cronpass.txt, and it will apply to reminders
> for all lists or all lists with that host_name.
>
> I have just updated the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9> to mention
> this fact.
>


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From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Tue Oct  4 17:30:36 2011
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 11:30:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing Monthly Reminder
In-Reply-To: <4E8B2084.80003@bellsouth.net>
References: <PC195201110021945310656fce9096f@MSAPIRO>
	<4E8B2084.80003@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <4E8B269C.6070000@Damon-Family.org>

On 10/4/11 11:04 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
> Thanks for the reply. The information that I want to add to the monthly
> reminder is specific to the members of one particular list. While I
> guess it does not hurt to send it to all lists if I word it correctly,
> it would be nice to have list specific reminders. Is there a relatively
> simple way around this or is it hard coded? Perhaps this could be added
> as a feature for a future release.
>
I think the issue is that while their are per list options for a 
subscriber, the password is a global setting for that email address, so 
the reminder is by nature not list specific. If you have multiple list 
subscriptions on one server, you get only a single reminder message 
listing all the lists you are subscribed with. Which lists reminder 
should it use?

I suppose the generic reminder might be able to mark a spot for list 
specific insertions, and each list having (optional) text to add in there.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct  4 17:57:01 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 08:57:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing Monthly Reminder
In-Reply-To: <4E8B2084.80003@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201110040857010875a29a692c@MSAPIRO>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>Thanks for the reply. The information that I want to add to the monthly
>reminder is specific to the members of one particular list. While I
>guess it does not hurt to send it to all lists if I word it correctly,
>it would be nice to have list specific reminders. Is there a relatively
>simple way around this or is it hard coded? Perhaps this could be added
>as a feature for a future release.


There is a patch at <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/867611> to
enable per-list password reminders which will use a list specific
cronpass.txt template. This patch will never be incorporated in a
future  Mailman 2.1.x release because it would be too annoying for
people who are members of multiple lists in the installation[1], and
it is moot for Mailman 3, but you are welcome to use it if you think
it's appropriate for your installation.

[1] If you currently have users who report password reminders as spam
from your server to their ISPs, think what will happen if they start
receiving a reminder per list instead of just one.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rhaas at rhaas.us  Tue Oct  4 14:30:46 2011
From: rhaas at rhaas.us (Richard Haas)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 08:30:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about list locking
Message-ID: <CAEcLpa_k4KXb5PUi397DbFOPM6-=+tJUTwkN4YLDoDphU-QxkA@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings.

Is there a relatively standard way to place a lock on a Mailman list with
bourne/bash/etc. scripts?

I see the interactive method using Mailman's *withlist* script (as described
here http://www.gnu.org/s/mailman/site.html), but I need to place a lock so
that an unattended perl script can prune older messages from the list's
.mbox archive, nightly or weekly via cron.

Yes, one might code the call to the perl mbox pruning script in python with
os.system() or commands.getoutput(), and then call withlist via cron to get
the perl to run while the list is locked -- but that seems like rolling a
lot together just to get a lock placed on a list. :-)

Is there a more straightforward way to lock/unlock a mailing list?

Thanks for any insight.

--
 Richard Haas <rhaas at rhaas.us>
 GnuPG public key ID: 1CB7F0E2
--

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Oct  5 09:50:09 2011
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 16:50:09 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  question about list locking
In-Reply-To: <CAEcLpa_k4KXb5PUi397DbFOPM6-=+tJUTwkN4YLDoDphU-QxkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEcLpa_k4KXb5PUi397DbFOPM6-=+tJUTwkN4YLDoDphU-QxkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <871uurho7i.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Richard Haas writes:

 > Is there a more straightforward way to lock/unlock a mailing list?

Sure -- write your pruning code in Python.<wink/>

What's the big deal about a three-line withlist script?  That's really
the only way to guarantee that you'll get correct locking in the
future with upgrades to Mailman.  Locking is an internal detail to
Mailman, and although AFAIK there's no particular reason to expect it
to change, it *could*.

From dunkel at calamus.net  Sat Oct  8 16:27:45 2011
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 16:27:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] settings changed?
In-Reply-To: <8657D133-3BE4-48E7-A0C7-510C32F78290@mac.com>
References: <PC1952011092107471809681a50975a@MSAPIRO>
	<8657D133-3BE4-48E7-A0C7-510C32F78290@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4E905DE1.5060300@calamus.net>

David: So you did NOT look into the vette.log?

- - - - -

Am 21.09.2011 16:56, schrieb David Doonan:
> The site has two admins. One contacted me about the problem. Before I
> had time to investigate, the other admin fixed the problem, which is why
> I couldn't find anything wrong.
>
> david
>
>
> On Sep 21, 2011, at 10:47 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> david doonan wrote:
>>
>>> One of my clients is managing a mailman list, version 2.1.13.
>>>
>>> He tells me that he has NOT changed any of the admin settings, but
>>> starting yesterday, all messages from authorized users are being held
>>> for moderation. Any idea what I should be looking for?
>>
>>
>> The reason why the message is held. You can find this reason in
>> Mailman's vette log, in notices to the admin about the held post(s)
>> and in the list's admindb interface when a post is held.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

---Ulf Dunkel

From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Mon Oct 10 02:59:27 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 07:59:27 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Striping out  original DKIM header
Message-ID: <4E92436F.1080005@dutaint.co.id>

Hi there,

My list has been run smoothly so far, but I got complaint from list
member who use yahoo.com family domain, all of their own posting goes to
to spam folder.

I suspect this is because mailman not stripe out original DKIM header so
that the DKIM verification going bad,

Herewith sample of DKIM verification result from my own server

Authentication-Results: dutaint.co.id
	spf=pass smtp.mail=mailman-users-bounces+syafril=dutaint.co.id at python.org;
	x-ip-ptr=pass dns.ptr=mail.python.org (ip=82.94.164.166);
	x-ip-helo=pass smtp.helo=mail.python.org (ip=82.94.164.166);
	x-ip-mail=pass
smtp.mail=mailman-users-bounces+syafril=dutaint.co.id at python.org
(ip=82.94.164.166);
	dkim=pass header.d=python.org (b=yvliUkboGh; 1:0:good);
header.d=dutaint.co.id (b=fRRQXdPoT6; 2:-15:DKIM_BODY_HASH_MISMATCH);
header.d=dutaint.co.id (b=sErKV626to; 3:-11:DKIM_SELECTOR_DNS_PERM_FAILURE);

It does pass DKIM for domain python.org but not pass (BAD) for my own
domain (my domain has DKIM key).
This is logically correct since DKIM also sign for content of the
message and since Mailman alter the content I think she should remove
original DKIM header.

My question then, how to stripe out original DKIM header from original
poster?


-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah




From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Mon Oct 10 03:58:18 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 08:58:18 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging List Administrator with List membership
Message-ID: <4E92513A.2010602@dutaint.co.id>

Hi there,

Some of list-name on my list server having more than one
List-administrator (List-owner)/List-moderators.

The problems are when one of List-owner/list-moderators approve held
message, adding/removing members, change list-administrator page
password there is no notification to others list-administrators.

They are already common with my old list (listar aka ecartis) which the
list administrator merging with list member (just have different menu).
So some list administrator do easy going to change
list-administrator/list-moderators password without notify others [1]

How can I merge list adminitrator page with list member page on mailman?

[1] I don't know why if one list-administrator change the password there
is no notification to others list-administrator, is the default install
doing like that?

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah



From informatica at actiu.net  Mon Oct 10 08:14:56 2011
From: informatica at actiu.net (Narcis Garcia - GiLUG)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 08:14:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invisible message for approval
Message-ID: <4E928D60.5080705@actiu.net>

Hello everybody and thanks for this helping tool.

I administer one list and had a "pending for approval" message on Sun 
Aug 14 21:11:08 2011 , but after several days I discarded it and no mode 
appeared in the admindb page.

But now I receive every morning an automated message with "The xxx 
mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting for your consideration", while 
there is'nt any retained message in the admindb page.

How can I effectively clean the moderation spool?
It's Mailman 2.1.13 on Ubuntu 10.04.2

Thanks.

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Mon Oct 10 12:45:49 2011
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:45:49 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Striping out  original DKIM header
In-Reply-To: <4E92436F.1080005@dutaint.co.id>
References: <4E92436F.1080005@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <BB9F4444F3417B4993F70CAA3C974F9579923C@sha-ex10-mbx02.exchange.simply.ms>

Syafril Hermansyah [syafril at dutaint.co.id] wrote:

>My list has been run smoothly so far, but I got complaint from list
>member who use yahoo.com family domain, all of their own posting goes to
>to spam folder.

>I suspect this is because mailman not stripe out original DKIM header so
>that the DKIM verification going bad,

[...]

>It does pass DKIM for domain python.org but not pass (BAD) for my own
>domain (my domain has DKIM key).
>This is logically correct since DKIM also sign for content of the
>message and since Mailman alter the content I think she should remove
>original DKIM header.

Simply add the following to mm_cfg.py:

REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = Yes

Taken from defaults.py:

# Some list posts and mail to the -owner address may contain DomainKey or
# DomainKeys Identified Mail (DKIM) signature headers <http://www.dkim.org/>.
# Various list transformations to the message such as adding a list header or
# footer or scrubbing attachments or even reply-to munging can break these
# signatures. It is generally felt that these signatures have value, even if
# broken and even if the outgoing message is resigned. However, some sites
# may wish to remove these headers by setting this to Yes.
REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = No

Note that there is various discussions around this topic, I had a similar issue with Yahoo, what I ended up doing was signing the messages leaving Mailman using the MTA, and not stripping any DKIM header.  This works fine now and Yahoo subscribers are receiving mail.

Thanks.
Andrew.

From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Mon Oct 10 19:02:09 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 00:02:09 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Striping out  original DKIM header
In-Reply-To: <BB9F4444F3417B4993F70CAA3C974F9579923C@sha-ex10-mbx02.exchange.simply.ms>
References: <4E92436F.1080005@dutaint.co.id>
	<BB9F4444F3417B4993F70CAA3C974F9579923C@sha-ex10-mbx02.exchange.simply.ms>
Message-ID: <4E932511.9020806@dutaint.co.id>

On 10/10/11 17:45, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

>> I suspect this is because mailman not stripe out original DKIM
>> header so that the DKIM verification going bad,
> 
> Simply add the following to mm_cfg.py:
> 
> REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = Yes
....

> Taken from defaults.py:

My fault, I should check that file first :-(

Thank you.

Does this setting also removing DomainKey-Signature as well (generate by
gmail users)?
I was using work around by removing those header using postfix's header
check.

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah


From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Mon Oct 10 19:45:10 2011
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:45:10 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Striping out  original DKIM header
In-Reply-To: <4E932511.9020806@dutaint.co.id>
References: <4E92436F.1080005@dutaint.co.id>
	<BB9F4444F3417B4993F70CAA3C974F9579923C@sha-ex10-mbx02.exchange.simply.ms>
	<4E932511.9020806@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <BB9F4444F3417B4993F70CAA3C974F95799BD9@sha-ex10-mbx02.exchange.simply.ms>

Syafril Hermansyah wrote:

>On 10/10/11 17:45, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

>>> I suspect this is because mailman not stripe out original DKIM header 
>>> so that the DKIM verification going bad,
>> 
>> Simply add the following to mm_cfg.py:
>> 
>> REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = Yes
>....

>> Taken from defaults.py:

>My fault, I should check that file first :-(

>Thank you.

>Does this setting also removing DomainKey-Signature as well (generate by gmail users)?
>I was using work around by removing those header using postfix's header check.

I believe it will do yes, as this feature was introduced when Domain Keys was still in active development and used a lot more than it is now.

Andrew. 

From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Mon Oct 10 19:53:02 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 00:53:02 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Striping out  original DKIM header
In-Reply-To: <BB9F4444F3417B4993F70CAA3C974F95799BD9@sha-ex10-mbx02.exchange.simply.ms>
References: <4E92436F.1080005@dutaint.co.id>	<BB9F4444F3417B4993F70CAA3C974F9579923C@sha-ex10-mbx02.exchange.simply.ms>
	<4E932511.9020806@dutaint.co.id>
	<BB9F4444F3417B4993F70CAA3C974F95799BD9@sha-ex10-mbx02.exchange.simply.ms>
Message-ID: <4E9330FE.5020204@dutaint.co.id>

On 11/10/11 00:45, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

>>> REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = Yes

>> Does this setting also removing DomainKey-Signature as well
>> (generate by gmail users)? I was using work around by removing
>> those header using postfix's header check.
> 
> I believe it will do yes, as this feature was introduced when Domain
> Keys was still in active development and used a lot more than it is
> now.

Thank you, I didn't check it yet since my list server idle now (already
midnight in my country) :-)

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah


From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Tue Oct 11 02:18:44 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 07:18:44 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Striping out  original DKIM header
In-Reply-To: <4E9330FE.5020204@dutaint.co.id>
References: <4E92436F.1080005@dutaint.co.id>	<BB9F4444F3417B4993F70CAA3C974F9579923C@sha-ex10-mbx02.exchange.simply.ms>	<4E932511.9020806@dutaint.co.id>	<BB9F4444F3417B4993F70CAA3C974F95799BD9@sha-ex10-mbx02.exchange.simply.ms>
	<4E9330FE.5020204@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <4E938B64.4020404@dutaint.co.id>

On 10/11/2011 12:53 AM, Syafril Hermansyah wrote:
>> I believe it will do yes, as this feature was introduced when Domain
>> > Keys was still in active development and used a lot more than it is
>> > now.
> Thank you, I didn't check it yet since my list server idle now (already
> midnight in my country) :-)

I can confirm now, it does stripe out DomainKey-Signature header as well.

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah



From chris.marcera at pressenterprise.net  Mon Oct 10 21:20:54 2011
From: chris.marcera at pressenterprise.net (C. Marcera)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:20:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admindb using http instead of https in form
	action
Message-ID: <7D07B142-1C19-4C2F-B8F3-0F2F4934113A@pressenterprise.net>

My OS X Server is using mailman v2.1.14. Because we're using/forcing https on all pages on this server, I am unable to submit some forms in the mailman admin pages (so far specifically the "Tend to pending" page). The form action is to "http://myservername" instead of "https://myservername".

Is there a setting for this somewhere or a .py file I can make an edit in?

Thanks in advance.

--------------------
Chris Marcera
System Administrator
Press Enterprise, Inc.

Phone:		888.231.9767 x1352
Fax:		570.784.3057
E-Mail:		chris.marcera at pressenterprise.net


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct 11 02:46:06 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:46:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invisible message for approval
In-Reply-To: <4E928D60.5080705@actiu.net>
Message-ID: <PC19520111010174606003136178825@MSAPIRO>

Narcis Garcia - GiLUG wrote:
>
>But now I receive every morning an automated message with "The xxx 
>mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting for your consideration", while 
>there is'nt any retained message in the admindb page.
>
>How can I effectively clean the moderation spool?
>It's Mailman 2.1.13 on Ubuntu 10.04.2


Please see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/EoCE>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct 11 02:41:28 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:41:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Striping out  original DKIM header
In-Reply-To: <4E938B64.4020404@dutaint.co.id>
References: <4E92436F.1080005@dutaint.co.id>	<BB9F4444F3417B4993F70CAA3C974F9579923C@sha-ex10-mbx02.exchange.simply.ms>	<4E932511.9020806@dutaint.co.id>	<BB9F4444F3417B4993F70CAA3C974F95799BD9@sha-ex10-mbx02.exchange.simply.ms>
	<4E9330FE.5020204@dutaint.co.id> <4E938B64.4020404@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <4E9390B8.9080301@msapiro.net>

On 10/10/2011 5:18 PM, Syafril Hermansyah wrote:
> 
> I can confirm now, it does stripe out DomainKey-Signature header as well.


Correct.

The headers removed are domainkey-signature, dkim-signature and
authentication-results. See Mailman/Handlers/CleanseDKIM.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct 11 03:17:12 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:17:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admindb using http instead of https in
	formaction
In-Reply-To: <7D07B142-1C19-4C2F-B8F3-0F2F4934113A@pressenterprise.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201110101817120890722308c6@MSAPIRO>

C. Marcera wrote

>My OS X Server is using mailman v2.1.14. Because we're using/forcing https on all pages on this server, I am unable to submit some forms in the mailman admin pages (so far specifically the "Tend to pending" page). The form action is to "http://myservername" instead of "https://myservername".
>
>Is there a setting for this somewhere or a .py file I can make an edit in?


You need to put

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'

(assuming Apple hasn't changed the default setting) in mm_cfg.py and
run fix_url on all your lists. See the FAQs at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/7oA9> and <http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct 11 03:30:35 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:30:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging List Administrator with List membership
In-Reply-To: <4E92513A.2010602@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <PC195201110101830350265a36c66ec@MSAPIRO>

Syafril Hermansyah wrote:
>
>Some of list-name on my list server having more than one
>List-administrator (List-owner)/List-moderators.
>
>The problems are when one of List-owner/list-moderators approve held
>message, adding/removing members, change list-administrator page
>password there is no notification to others list-administrators.
>
>They are already common with my old list (listar aka ecartis) which the
>list administrator merging with list member (just have different menu).
>So some list administrator do easy going to change
>list-administrator/list-moderators password without notify others [1]
>
>How can I merge list adminitrator page with list member page on mailman?


I'm not sure what you mean. For Mailman 2.1.x, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/5YA9> for a description of the various roles.


>[1] I don't know why if one list-administrator change the password there
>is no notification to others list-administrator, is the default install
>doing like that?


Mailman was developed in a more collegial world <wink>.

The situation will change in Mailman 3 to one which is more like I
think you want. In MM 3 each person has a login and within that login
user/password can have multiple e-mail addresses and a set of roles
such as

administrator of list1
moderator of list2
member of list1, list3 and list4.

This capability and the implied separation of passwords for multiple
admins does not and will not exist in Mailman 2.1.x.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Tue Oct 11 03:52:32 2011
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (Bill Christensen)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:52:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setup problem with Mailman
Message-ID: <4E93A160.2030402@greenbuilder.com>

Hi all,

(cross posted to Macports-users and Mailman-users lists, as I'm not sure 
where the answer to the problem is more likely to come from)

I upgraded a server the other day to Mac OS 10.7, and due to a new 
version of Macports required an uninstall/reinstall of Mailman.

As seems to be the usual case, the new Mailman/Fetchmail install needs 
some tweaks to get it working right - the Dreaded Group Mismatch Error 
in Mailman, SSL required but configured --without-ssl in Fetchmail, 
etc... I've fought my way through all of those, but...

Currently it's telling me that the location of the MDA, which in the 
previous Fetchmailrc file was /opt/local/libexec/mailman/mail/mailman 
and worked fine before the upgrade, is a directory which doesn't exist. 
  And that's true, it doesn't.

So, the question is, where did it move to?  Where *should* Fetchmail be 
told that the Mailman MDA is?

Thanks for relieving my frustration.

From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Tue Oct 11 04:21:03 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 09:21:03 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging List Administrator with List membership
In-Reply-To: <PC195201110101830350265a36c66ec@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201110101830350265a36c66ec@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E93A80F.50405@dutaint.co.id>

On 10/11/2011 08:30 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> How can I merge list adminitrator page with list member page on mailman?
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean. For Mailman 2.1.x, see the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/5YA9> for a description of the various roles.

I wish when member (who also act as List-Administrator/moderator) login
on their membership page (http://%s/mailman/listinfo/<address>) there is
link to administrative page (or held page) and s/he can reach the page
without authenticate first.
That way any list-administrator which also member of the list only need
to remember single password/authentication, no need to notify other
list-administrators/moderators about new password.
The list-administrative page still exist though, this page need it for
super admin (or list maintainer) to help list administrator changes some
setting (just in case).

And then when any list-administrator/moderators make approval (of held
messages) or add/remove any member, there is mail notification to
listname-owner/listname-moderators that message has been approved or new
member has been added or membership has been removed by
<address-of-one-list-administrator>, that way other list-administrators
know that someone has been did the job, no further action required.

> The situation will change in Mailman 3 to one which is more like I
> think you want. In MM 3 each person has a login and within that login
> user/password can have multiple e-mail addresses and a set of roles
> such as
> 
> administrator of list1
> moderator of list2
> member of list1, list3 and list4.
> 
> This capability and the implied separation of passwords for multiple
> admins does not and will not exist in Mailman 2.1.x.

Sounds good to me :-)


-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah



From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Tue Oct 11 04:28:11 2011
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (Bill Christensen)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:28:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setup problem with Mailman
In-Reply-To: <4E93A160.2030402@greenbuilder.com>
References: <4E93A160.2030402@greenbuilder.com>
Message-ID: <4E93A9BB.1050807@greenbuilder.com>

Correction:

The problem below occurred because Mailman had run into an error and 
hadn't installed that directory.  I figured that one out and it's 
installing again.

Now I'm back to a Group Mismatch error once again, and adding the 
configure line

     --with-mail-gid=staff

(and removing the line --with-mail-gid=${mmgroup} ) as suggested doesn't 
fix it.

Next step?  It seems I go through this every time I do an install of 
Mailman...


On 10/10/11 8:52 PM, Bill Christensen wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> (cross posted to Macports-users and Mailman-users lists, as I'm not 
> sure where the answer to the problem is more likely to come from)
>
> I upgraded a server the other day to Mac OS 10.7, and due to a new 
> version of Macports required an uninstall/reinstall of Mailman.
>
> As seems to be the usual case, the new Mailman/Fetchmail install needs 
> some tweaks to get it working right - the Dreaded Group Mismatch Error 
> in Mailman, SSL required but configured --without-ssl in Fetchmail, 
> etc... I've fought my way through all of those, but...
>
> Currently it's telling me that the location of the MDA, which in the 
> previous Fetchmailrc file was /opt/local/libexec/mailman/mail/mailman 
> and worked fine before the upgrade, is a directory which doesn't 
> exist.  And that's true, it doesn't.
>
> So, the question is, where did it move to?  Where *should* Fetchmail 
> be told that the Mailman MDA is?
>
> Thanks for relieving my frustration.
> _______________________________________________
> macports-users mailing list
> macports-users at lists.macosforge.org
> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
>


From dennis_gray at democratsabroad.org  Tue Oct 11 05:36:38 2011
From: dennis_gray at democratsabroad.org (Dennis Gray)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:36:38 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1318304198.2416.140258153347329@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I am running Mailman on a server hosted by GoDaddy using the Plesk
control panel. I no longer want to run this and have disabled it using
the control panel but it continues to send administrative messages to
members of the list. How can I completely disable it?

Thanks,


Dennis M. Gray
Democrats Abroad IT Team

Email: dennis_gray at democratsabroad.org

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct 11 06:14:00 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:14:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <1318304198.2416.140258153347329@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201110102114000359158648a7@MSAPIRO>

Dennis Gray wrote:

>I am running Mailman on a server hosted by GoDaddy using the Plesk
>control panel. I no longer want to run this and have disabled it using
>the control panel but it continues to send administrative messages to
>members of the list. How can I completely disable it?


If you have access to Mailman's command line tools, you can use
bin/rmlist to completely remove a list.

Please see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/tIA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From informatica at actiu.net  Tue Oct 11 08:16:32 2011
From: informatica at actiu.net (Narcis Garcia - GiLUG)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 08:16:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invisible message for approval [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <4E928D60.5080705@actiu.net>
References: <4E928D60.5080705@actiu.net>
Message-ID: <4E93DF40.7050009@actiu.net>

The two messages were sent from the main server and from a new mirror 
server. I only moderate on the production list server, of course, and 
the mirror makes data copy with some lag.

The matter I don't know how to solve is to have a mirror (available for 
production) but not sending mails while doesn't become the production one.
(Server can know if it's main or mirror with a DNS query: ListServer IP 
=? My IP)


Al 10/10/11 08:14, En/na Narcis Garcia - GiLUG ha escrit:
> Hello everybody and thanks for this helping tool.
>
> I administer one list and had a "pending for approval" message on Sun
> Aug 14 21:11:08 2011 , but after several days I discarded it and no mode
> appeared in the admindb page.
>
> But now I receive every morning an automated message with "The xxx
> mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting for your consideration", while
> there is'nt any retained message in the admindb page.
>
> How can I effectively clean the moderation spool?
> It's Mailman 2.1.13 on Ubuntu 10.04.2
>
> Thanks.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/informatica%40actiu.net
>

From plichten at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 13:08:33 2011
From: plichten at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 07:08:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove Members waiting for Moderator Approval via
	Command Line
Message-ID: <CANgetreP478ZV_Eqj6M+=QAnuYpkVmmfpcsMLh6JBxDVdXoMeQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sorry if this was posted elsewhere - I've been unable to find an answer.

I also realized I originated this e-mail from an account not associated with
the mailing list.  This e-mail is from a subscribed mailman-user account.



I'm trying to kill a pending subscription to a mailing list via the command
line because the domain owner forgot to register the main domain of our site
and we can't approve/deny membership via the web admin interface.

I've tried to remove the e-mail address pending approval via the
remove_members command and it seem to only react to active and approved
members of a mailing list.

Is there a way to approve / deny a pending user request via shell?


Thanks for the help




Phil / w2lie
Monitor Long Island, Inc. <http://www.monitorlongisland.com> |
W2LIE.net<http://www.w2lie.net>|
LongIslandFirePhotos.com <http://www.LongIslandFirePhotos.com>
 <http://www.w2lie.net/charity>

From andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov  Tue Oct 11 16:40:43 2011
From: andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov (Andrew Watson)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 07:40:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] missing post for moderation
Message-ID: <3A03F199-17E4-42D6-B5DD-3EB30DA8F0B6@nasa.gov>

I have a list which has been functioning fine for many years.
This morning I found a standard email to me, as moderator, asking that I authorize a posting.
The "Date" field says it was sent 6 hours ago.
When I go to the administrative page, no message appears for my approval.
If I test the system by sending a new message, it does appear in my moderator queue, so
otherwise the list appears to be working fine.

How can this happen, and is there some way to find the missing message, or should
I just chalk it up to the mysteries of mailman, and ask the poster to send again?

-Andrew

From graham at salesupinc.com  Tue Oct 11 04:51:55 2011
From: graham at salesupinc.com (Graham Young)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 22:51:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with Mailman on Mac OS X Snow Leopard client
Message-ID: <661C2B2B-ABCC-4DCB-BE5E-D36C6664F47D@salesupinc.com>

Mail generated by Mailman hangs in my dedicated, on-board MTA's queue unless I remove a certain bit of custom Postfix configuration that I entered following instructions kindly posted here by one Larry Stone. The instruction in question are those for building Mailman on above platform directly from code downloaded from a source referenced on list.org and the configuration in question is one involving alias maps. 

Everything about this build of Mailman seems to be working fine. I can create lists and add or remove members. New members receive the expected mail--but here's the catch: only if I remove the above mentioned bit of custom Postscript configuration.

I came to suspect this bit of custom Postscript configuration exactly because Postfix reported an error involving it. Therefore I removed the bit of custom Postscript configuration to see if the queue would clear and it did. 

Everyone got their mail.  

However and of course, I question whether I can just remove this bit of custom Postscript configuration without consequences. Mailman-users may seem unlikely as a place to inquire about this; but, again, the instruction to use this bit of custom Postfix configuration came from a poster to this list whose particular posting is cited on list.org as authoritative. 

I am running Mailman on an Intel Mac mini with the client version of Mac OS X Snow Leopard installed. I will gladly post more details about my platform although I am not sure what might be needed.

The bit of custom Postfix configuration that I've experimented with removing is exactly as follows:
"hash:/etc/postfix/aliases"

The context in which this bit is supposed to appear is as follows:
"alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases".

I just remove the bit, leaving:
"alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases".
Again, with just this as remnant of my custom Postscript configuration, Mailman-generated mail gets sent. 

The error message that Postfix repeatedly issues when I don't have the suspect portion of this bit of custom Postscript configuration removed is as follows:
"Oct 10 21:10:05 email postfix/local[75578]: fatal: open database /etc/postfix/aliases.db: No such file or directory
Oct 10 21:10:06 email postfix/master[141]: warning: process /usr/libexec/postfix/local pid 75578 exit status 1
Oct 10 21:10:06 email postfix/master[141]: warning: /usr/libexec/postfix/local: bad command startup -- throttling
Oct 10 21:11:06 email postfix/local[75583]: fatal: open database /etc/postfix/aliases.db: No such file or directory
Oct 10 21:11:07 email postfix/master[141]: warning: process /usr/libexec/postfix/local pid 75583 exit status 1
Oct 10 21:11:07 email postfix/master[141]: warning: /usr/libexec/postfix/local: bad command startup -- throttling
Oct 10 21:12:07 email postfix/local[75584]: fatal: open database /etc/postfix/aliases.db: No such file or directory
Oct 10 21:12:08 email postfix/master[141]: warning: process /usr/libexec/postfix/local pid 75584 exit status 1
Oct 10 21:12:08 email postfix/master[141]: warning: /usr/libexec/postfix/local: bad command startup -- throttling
Oct 10 21:13:08 email postfix/local[75593]: fatal: open database /etc/postfix/aliases.db: No such file or directory
Oct 10 21:13:09 email postfix/master[141]: warning: process /usr/libexec/postfix/local pid 75593 exit status 1
Oct 10 21:13:09 email postfix/master[141]: warning: /usr/libexec/postfix/local: bad command startup -- throttling"

One can see why I investigated Postscript alias maps upon seeing these log entries. I obviously don't understand them, though. 

Finally, inasmuch as it may be relevant, I next post feedback that I get from a certain "postconf" command, specifically "postconf alias_maps":
"alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases"

Seeing this as the feedback to said command, makes we wonder: Wouldn't the correct feedback here include reference to Mailman's own "aliases" file given what remains of my custom Postscript configuration? 

Anyway, something is certainly wrong. Assistance, if offered, will be much appreciated. Indeed thanks for even reading this since its the first thing I hope for that people read about my problem. 

Hopefully, I have posted well for starters but i am more than happy to take hints about what else I need to submit. I am a first time poster. 

Graham


From nick.bright at valnet.net  Tue Oct 11 02:40:34 2011
From: nick.bright at valnet.net (Nick Bright)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 19:40:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with postfix,
	using virtual domains
Message-ID: <4E939082.4050707@valnet.net>

I'm sure this has been covered many times; however nothing I've found so 
far in the mailing list archives has alleviated this problem.

I've followed the mailman documentation for integrating mailman with 
postfix, according to 
http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html as well as 
various mailing list posts on this list.

Note that I am attempting to configure a virtual_mailbox_domain with 
mailman (not a virtual_alias_domain).

mm_cfg.py contains:

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['valnet.net']
MTA = 'Postfix'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'mail.valnet.net'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'valnet.net'
VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'valnet.net'

A mailing list was created with the newlist, which created 
/etc/mailman/aliases and /etc/mailman/virtual-mailman (and their 
associated db files).

I've added /etc/mailman/virtual-mailman to my virtual_alias_maps, and 
added /etc/mailman/aliases to my alias_maps and alias_database in main.cf:

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman

If I'm reading all of the documentation correctly, that should be all 
that is necessary to make it work.

Unfortunately, when I send an email to testlist at valnet.net I receive a 
bounce back of:

<testlist at valnet.net>: unknown user: "testlist at valnet.net"

With an associated postfix log entry of:

Oct 10 19:22:47 mail postfix/virtual[22090]: DBF7241F5F: 
to=<testlist at valnet.net>, relay=virtual, delay=0.39, 
delays=0.36/0/0/0.03, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (unknown user: 
"testlist at valnet.net")

When I test the alias maps I see:

[root at mail postfix]# postmap -q testlist at valnet.net 
hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
testlist
[root at mail postfix]# postmap -q testlist hash:/etc/mailman/aliases 

"|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist"

That output *seems* correct, but I don't know if that's really correct 
or not.

In case it's worth noting, the list administrator specified in newlist 
does receive an email about the list being created.

I really think I've just missed something simple in the documentation, 
but the documentation for how to do this is strung out in so many 
different places and is a bit difficult to find, that I'm not entirely 
certain I've read it all.

Any tips or things to check would be appreciated.

Thanks,
  Nick


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Tue Oct 11 18:54:14 2011
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:54:14 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with Mailman on Mac OS X Snow Leopard
 client
In-Reply-To: <661C2B2B-ABCC-4DCB-BE5E-D36C6664F47D@salesupinc.com>
References: <661C2B2B-ABCC-4DCB-BE5E-D36C6664F47D@salesupinc.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.1110111135480.24155@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011, Graham Young wrote:

> Mail generated by Mailman hangs in my dedicated, on-board MTA's queue 
> unless I remove a certain bit of custom Postfix configuration that I 
> entered following instructions kindly posted here by one Larry Stone.

I guess I'm best to answer this.


> The bit of custom Postfix configuration that I've experimented with 
> removing is exactly as follows: "hash:/etc/postfix/aliases"
>
> The context in which this bit is supposed to appear is as follows:
> "alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases".
>
> I just remove the bit, leaving: "alias_maps = 
> hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases". Again, with just this as remnant 
> of my custom Postscript configuration, Mailman-generated mail gets sent.

alias_maps is this list of aliases, local addresses which do not get 
delivered locally but rather get sent elsewhere. That could be another 
address (for instance, on my system, postmaster is an alias for me so I 
get all postmaster mail) or for Mailman, a pipe to the Mailman mail input 
script.

> The error message that Postfix repeatedly issues when I don't have the 
> suspect portion of this bit of custom Postscript configuration removed 
> is as follows:
> "Oct 10 21:10:05 email postfix/local[75578]: fatal: open database 
> /etc/postfix/aliases.db: No such file or directory

It means exactly what it says. /etc/postfix/aliases.db does not exist.

> Finally, inasmuch as it may be relevant, I next post feedback that I get 
> from a certain "postconf" command, specifically "postconf alias_maps": 
> "alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases"

That should be the outpust of "postconf -d alias_maps". -d means the 
default value. On my system (and I have never touched this part), 
/etc/aliases is a softlink to /etc/postfix/aliases (in other words, just a 
pointer to that file).

So the real is why does /etc/postfix/aliases.db not exist. It's not really 
required and it isn't part of Mailman. I had assumed it was past of the 
standard Postfix installation on OS X client but perhaps not (or maybe it 
was and no longer is but I didn't realize that because I've been upgrading 
or moving all the way from 10.3.

(a digression as to how aliases.db is created. aliases is a text file in a 
prescribed format. To turn it into the hash table Postfix wants to use, 
it's run through postmap. postmap hash:aliases created aliases.db)

The purpose of that customization is to append Mailman's alias file to the 
existing alias file.

If you don't have /etc/postfix/aliases.db, then don't include it in 
alias_maps. It's that simple. If you have a different aliases file, use 
that in place of /etc/postfix/aliases in alias_maps.

The best way to do this is to look in your Postfix main.cf for an earlier 
definition of alias_maps. So if you find
alias_maps = hash:foo, then replace my instructions with
alias_maps = hash:foo,
   hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

If there is no prior definition of alias_maps in main.cf, then do
postconf -d alias_maps and then:
alias_maps = (whatever postconf -d alias_maps returned),
   hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

However, please note that my instructions assume and expect familiarity 
with Postfix. If you don't understand Postfix, you will almost certainly 
have other problems in the future.

-- Larry Stone
    lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From chris.marcera at pressenterprise.net  Tue Oct 11 20:54:48 2011
From: chris.marcera at pressenterprise.net (C. Marcera)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:54:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting defaults for new mailing lists
Message-ID: <DE92DCAB-992A-4932-A362-5CCF0D2C7512@pressenterprise.net>

Is it possible to change the default settings for new mailing lists when you create them? For example, whenever I create new lists, send_welcome_msg and send_goodbye_msg are on by default. For our internal purposes, I don't want/need those messages going out so I keep turning them off. I've forgotten once or twice and that leads to "What's this email mean?".

Is there a way to make the default setting Off instead of On?

Thanks in advance.

--------------------
Chris Marcera
System Administrator
Press Enterprise, Inc.

Phone:		888.231.9767 x1352
Fax:		570.784.3057
E-Mail:		chris.marcera at pressenterprise.net


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct 11 21:18:31 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 12:18:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invisible message for approval [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <4E93DF40.7050009@actiu.net>
Message-ID: <PC19520111011121831026526fc66e8@MSAPIRO>

Narcis Garcia - GiLUG wrote:
>
>The matter I don't know how to solve is to have a mirror (available for 
>production) but not sending mails while doesn't become the production one.
>(Server can know if it's main or mirror with a DNS query: ListServer IP 
>=? My IP)


Presumably, you are not actually running Mailman on the mirror. The nn
held messages waiting notices com from a Mailman cron job.  You have
several choices.

1) Don't mirror Mailman's crontab.

2) Don't run crond on the mirror server (probably the best option).

3) Update the mirror frequently enough so that changes on the
production server are reflected on the mirror before Mailman's crons
run (this won't avoid duplicate notices when there are held messages
on the production server).

4) modify Mailman's crontab to only run the jobs on the production
server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From informatica at actiu.net  Tue Oct 11 21:50:26 2011
From: informatica at actiu.net (Narcis Garcia - GiLUG)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 21:50:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invisible message for approval [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <PC19520111011121831026526fc66e8@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19520111011121831026526fc66e8@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E949E02.5080806@actiu.net>

Production and mirror are ready to work, and the only difference is the 
public DNS pointer. The design is planned to make only 1 change on a DNS 
record to change the role of a server.

I'll study the best point to make check if it's production or not, and 
then run crontab actions or not.

Thanks.


Al 11/10/11 21:18, En/na Mark Sapiro ha escrit:
> Narcis Garcia - GiLUG wrote:
>>
>> The matter I don't know how to solve is to have a mirror (available for
>> production) but not sending mails while doesn't become the production one.
>> (Server can know if it's main or mirror with a DNS query: ListServer IP
>> =? My IP)
>
>
> Presumably, you are not actually running Mailman on the mirror. The nn
> held messages waiting notices com from a Mailman cron job.  You have
> several choices.
>
> 1) Don't mirror Mailman's crontab.
>
> 2) Don't run crond on the mirror server (probably the best option).
>
> 3) Update the mirror frequently enough so that changes on the
> production server are reflected on the mirror before Mailman's crons
> run (this won't avoid duplicate notices when there are held messages
> on the production server).
>
> 4) modify Mailman's crontab to only run the jobs on the production
> server.
>

From chuck.johnson at simpson.edu  Tue Oct 11 22:01:52 2011
From: chuck.johnson at simpson.edu (Chuck Johnson)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 15:01:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest Delivery question...
Message-ID: <5521A4BA6A20A0488A31A112FBE40A9D82D4D4DCE0@MAILCLUSTER1.sc.loc>

Greetings,

I am curious if anyone has found a way to specify the time(s) that the digest message is sent rather than depending upon a size condition being met?

I'm thinking that it can be done via a cron job and a mailman command, but I'm not familiar enough with the mailman specific commands to know if it is possible or not.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Chuck

Chuck Johnson
Academic Software Specialist
Simpson College
Indianola, Iowa
direct: 515-961-1866 * optional: 515-961-1681
www.simpson.edu


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct 11 23:20:06 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:20:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] missing post for moderation
In-Reply-To: <3A03F199-17E4-42D6-B5DD-3EB30DA8F0B6@nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1952011101114200606090aa27927@MSAPIRO>

Andrew Watson wrote:

>I have a list which has been functioning fine for many years.
>This morning I found a standard email to me, as moderator, asking that I authorize a posting.
>The "Date" field says it was sent 6 hours ago.
>When I go to the administrative page, no message appears for my approval.
>If I test the system by sending a new message, it does appear in my moderator queue, so
>otherwise the list appears to be working fine.
>
>How can this happen, and is there some way to find the missing message, or should
>I just chalk it up to the mysteries of mailman, and ask the poster to send again?


What's in Mailman's vette log? Possibly the poster cancelled it
herself. If so the disposition will be in the vette log.

If there is nothing in the vette log about either the holding or the
reject/discard of the post, check the Received: headers of the notice
to see what server it came from.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Tue Oct 11 23:41:42 2011
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (Bill Christensen)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:41:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch returns.
Message-ID: <4E94B816.8010807@greenbuilder.com>

Recent upgrade borked my setup.

Group Mismatch error once again, and adding the configure line

     --with-mail-gid=staff

and removing the line

     --with-mail-gid=${mmgroup}

  as suggested doesn't fix it.

What to do?  How can I keep this from happening whenever I do a major 
upgrade/reinstall on my server?

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct 11 23:59:02 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:59:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest Delivery question...
In-Reply-To: <5521A4BA6A20A0488A31A112FBE40A9D82D4D4DCE0@MAILCLUSTER1.sc.loc>
Message-ID: <PC1952011101114590109840ab3c7d9@MSAPIRO>

Chuck Johnson wrote:
>
>I am curious if anyone has found a way to specify the time(s) that the digest message is sent rather than depending upon a size condition being met?
>
>I'm thinking that it can be done via a cron job and a mailman command, but I'm not familiar enough with the mailman specific commands to know if it is possible or not.


A standard Mailman installation runs several cron jobs either via a
'system' crontab or the Mailman user's crontab. One of these jobs is
cron/senddigests which by default runs at noon for all lists.

cron/senddigests sends a digest for every list whose Digest options ->
digest_send_periodic is Yes and which has messages pending for the
digest.

If you want only periodic digests, set digest_send_periodic to Yes and
set digest_size_threshhold large enough that you don't get digests
triggered on size in between.

You can edit Mailman's crontab to run cron/senddigests on any schedule
you want, and if you want different schedules for different lists, you
can specify one or more list names for cron/senddigests with one or
more -l LISTNAME options and have multiple commands run on different
schedules for different lists.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Oct 12 01:07:17 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:07:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with postfix,
 using virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <4E939082.4050707@valnet.net>
References: <4E939082.4050707@valnet.net>
Message-ID: <4E94CC25.6080709@msapiro.net>

On 10/10/2011 5:40 PM, Nick Bright wrote:
> 
> I've followed the mailman documentation for integrating mailman with
> postfix, according to
> http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html as well as
> various mailing list posts on this list.
> 
> Note that I am attempting to configure a virtual_mailbox_domain with
> mailman (not a virtual_alias_domain).
> 
> mm_cfg.py contains:
> 
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['valnet.net']
> MTA = 'Postfix'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'mail.valnet.net'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'valnet.net'
> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'valnet.net'


The above line is wrong. Normally you shouldn't need to specify
VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN at all, but if it is specified, it should
be something like 'localhost' or 'some.other.postfix.local.domain'. It
must not be the list domain because if it is it will result in
virtual-mailman mappings like

testlist at valnet.net    testlist at valnet.net

which tell Postfix to map the virtual domain address testlist at valnet.net
to the address testlist at valnet.net which is the same address and doesn't
tell Postfix what real address to actually deliver to.


[...]
> Unfortunately, when I send an email to testlist at valnet.net I receive a
> bounce back of:
> 
> <testlist at valnet.net>: unknown user: "testlist at valnet.net"
> 
> With an associated postfix log entry of:
> 
> Oct 10 19:22:47 mail postfix/virtual[22090]: DBF7241F5F:
> to=<testlist at valnet.net>, relay=virtual, delay=0.39,
> delays=0.36/0/0/0.03, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (unknown user:
> "testlist at valnet.net")


Because you are mapping testlist at valnet.net to testlist at valnet.net
instead of to testlist or testlist at localhost


> When I test the alias maps I see:
> 
> [root at mail postfix]# postmap -q testlist at valnet.net
> hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
> testlist


This is the puzzling part as it says that the mapping in virtual-mailman
is to testlist and not to testlist at valnet.net, so it should be working ???

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Oct 12 01:11:51 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:11:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting defaults for new mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <DE92DCAB-992A-4932-A362-5CCF0D2C7512@pressenterprise.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201110111611510296eb6028db@MSAPIRO>

C. Marcerawrote:

>Is it possible to change the default settings for new mailing lists when you create them? For example, whenever I create new lists, send_welcome_msg and send_goodbye_msg are on by default. For our internal purposes, I don't want/need those messages going out so I keep turning them off. I've forgotten once or twice and that leads to "What's this email mean?".
>
>Is there a way to make the default setting Off instead of On?


Put

DEFAULT_SEND_WELCOME_MSG = No
DEFAULT_SEND_GOODBYE_MSG = No

in mm_cfg.py.

It would serve you well to read Defaults.py to find out what other
settings exist that you may find useful.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Oct 12 01:46:16 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:46:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging List Administrator with List membership
In-Reply-To: <4E93A80F.50405@dutaint.co.id>
References: <PC195201110101830350265a36c66ec@MSAPIRO>
	<4E93A80F.50405@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <4E94D548.4010906@msapiro.net>

On 10/10/2011 7:21 PM, Syafril Hermansyah wrote:
> 
> I wish when member (who also act as List-Administrator/moderator) login
> on their membership page (http://%s/mailman/listinfo/<address>) there is
> link to administrative page (or held page) and s/he can reach the page
> without authenticate first.
> That way any list-administrator which also member of the list only need
> to remember single password/authentication, no need to notify other
> list-administrators/moderators about new password.


The web UI will be different in MM 3 and may not work exactly as you
state above, but the function you look for will be there. No changes are
contemplated for Mailman 2.1.x.


> The list-administrative page still exist though, this page need it for
> super admin (or list maintainer) to help list administrator changes some
> setting (just in case).
> 
> And then when any list-administrator/moderators make approval (of held
> messages) or add/remove any member, there is mail notification to
> listname-owner/listname-moderators that message has been approved or new
> member has been added or membership has been removed by
> <address-of-one-list-administrator>, that way other list-administrators
> know that someone has been did the job, no further action required.


These actions are currently logged, but no notices are sent. Notices
would be difficult to implement in Mailman 2.1.x because there is no
list method for notifying all owners/moderators except one.

This seems like a reasonable request for MM 3 if it isn't already planned.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Oct 12 02:01:04 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 17:01:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch returns.
In-Reply-To: <4E94B816.8010807@greenbuilder.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011101117010405780fea9d86@MSAPIRO>

Bill Christensen wrote:

>Recent upgrade borked my setup.


[Prior posts indicate this is Mac OS 10.7 server]


>Group Mismatch error once again, and adding the configure line
>
>     --with-mail-gid=staff
>
>and removing the line
>
>     --with-mail-gid=${mmgroup}
>
>  as suggested doesn't fix it.
>
>What to do?  How can I keep this from happening whenever I do a major 
>upgrade/reinstall on my server?


These are really questions for Apple. I'm not aware of anyone on this
list other than you who is running Mac OS X server Mailman. I think
most people have had more success by completely ripping out the
supplied Mailman and installing from source. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/O4A9>.

Note that making changes to configure options (at least in standard
Mailman) don't do anything unless you actually run configure and make
install.

What is your MTA? If it is Postfix and uses aliases for delivery to
Mailman, what is the owner of the aliases.db file that contains the
Mailman aliases.

What is the text of the group mismatch error message?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Oct 12 02:51:43 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 17:51:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove Members waiting for Moderator Approval
	viaCommand Line
In-Reply-To: <CANgetreP478ZV_Eqj6M+=QAnuYpkVmmfpcsMLh6JBxDVdXoMeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201110111751430843dbd1e136@MSAPIRO>

Phil wrote:
>
>I'm trying to kill a pending subscription to a mailing list via the command
>line because the domain owner forgot to register the main domain of our site
>and we can't approve/deny membership via the web admin interface.
>
>I've tried to remove the e-mail address pending approval via the
>remove_members command and it seem to only react to active and approved
>members of a mailing list.


That's correct. remove_members only removes members. A pending
subscription is not (yet) a member.


>Is there a way to approve / deny a pending user request via shell?


Do you mean a subscription request that is waiting moderator approval
because subscribe_policy is 'Require approval' or 'Confirm and
approve' or one that is waiting user confirmation because
subscribe_policy is 'Confirm' or 'Confirm and approve'? It seems you
mean the former.

Deleting a subscription waiting approval is a multi step process with
existing tools.

First run

/path/to/mailman/bin/dumpdb /path/to/mailman/lists/LISTNAME/pending.pck

This will report something like

[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
{   104: (   2,
             (   1318366634.8118629,
                 'user at example.com',
                 'User Name',
                 'tuufwuge',
                 False,
                 'en')),
    'version': (0, 1)}
[----- end pickle file -----]


There may be more entries than above, but those other than

    'version': (0, 1)

are all pending requests of some kind. Each will have a numeric key,
104 in the above followed by a 2-tuple consisting of a number
indicating the request type (1 for a held message, 2 for a held
subscription or 3 for a held unsubscription) and a tuple of
information the format of which depends on the type.

You are interested in type 2 as above and the information tuple is
(time stamp, e-mail address, real name, password, digest flag,
language). Find the key(s) of the one(s) you want to discard, in the
example above, 104.

Then run 

/path/to/mailman/bin/withlist -l LISTNAME

which will respond

Loading list LISTNAME (locked)
The variable `m' is the LISTNAME MailList instance
>>>

at the >>> prompts, type

>>> from Mailman.mm_cfg import DISCARD
>>> m.HandleRequest(104, DISCARD)

(Use the key from your request instead of 104 - this should not print
any error. You can repeat the above multiple times with other keys if
you have more that one request to discard.)

>>> m.Save()

(This is important to save the state of the list.)

>>>       <- at this prompt type control-D to exit which should respond
Unlocking (but not saving) list: LISTNAME
Finalizing

The discards will be logged in Mailman's vette log.

The above method can be used to discard a held message, but Mailman's
bin/discard is simpler.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Wed Oct 12 05:40:17 2011
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (Bill Christensen)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 22:40:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch returns.
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011101117010405780fea9d86@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1952011101117010405780fea9d86@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E950C21.7030407@greenbuilder.com>

On 10/11/11 7:01 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Bill Christensen wrote:
>
>    
>> Recent upgrade borked my setup.
>>      
>
> [Prior posts indicate this is Mac OS 10.7 server]
>
>
>    
>> Group Mismatch error once again, and adding the configure line
>>
>>      --with-mail-gid=staff
>>
>> and removing the line
>>
>>      --with-mail-gid=${mmgroup}
>>
>>   as suggested doesn't fix it.
>>
>> What to do?  How can I keep this from happening whenever I do a major
>> upgrade/reinstall on my server?
>>      
>
> These are really questions for Apple. I'm not aware of anyone on this
> list other than you who is running Mac OS X server Mailman.

I'm using the 'client' version of Mac OSX, not the 'server' version.  
I'm not using the Apple-provided version of Mailman.  I use Macports, 
which downloads the source directly from Sourceforge/lists.org.
> I think
> most people have had more success by completely ripping out the
> supplied Mailman and installing from source. See the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/O4A9>.
>    
Much of that is ancient history or relates primarily to the OSXserver 
version.

Fortunately, I figured out what the problem was.  Though I had installed 
with  --with-mail-gid=staff, I hadn't also run a check_perms -f.  That 
was apparently the missing puzzle piece.

From nick.bright at valnet.net  Wed Oct 12 20:29:11 2011
From: nick.bright at valnet.net (Nick Bright)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 13:29:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with postfix,
 using virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <4E94CC25.6080709@msapiro.net>
References: <4E939082.4050707@valnet.net> <4E94CC25.6080709@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4E95DC77.40608@valnet.net>

On 10/11/2011 6:07 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 10/10/2011 5:40 PM, Nick Bright wrote:
>>
[...]
>> mm_cfg.py contains:
>>
>> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['valnet.net']
>> MTA = 'Postfix'
>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'mail.valnet.net'
>> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'valnet.net'
>> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'valnet.net'
>
>
> The above line is wrong. Normally you shouldn't need to specify
> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN at all, but if it is specified, it should
> be something like 'localhost' or 'some.other.postfix.local.domain'. It
> must not be the list domain because if it is it will result in
> virtual-mailman mappings like
>
> testlist at valnet.net    testlist at valnet.net
>
> which tell Postfix to map the virtual domain address testlist at valnet.net
> to the address testlist at valnet.net which is the same address and doesn't
> tell Postfix what real address to actually deliver to.
>
[...]
>

Thank you for your reply, I appreciate you taking the time to look at my 
question.

I've commented out VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN completely from 
mm_cfg.py, and reran genaliases.

It's created a /etc/mailman/virtual-mailman contents of:

# STANZA START: testlist
# CREATED: Wed Oct 12 13:16:32 2011
testlist at valnet.net              testlist
testlist-admin at valnet.net        testlist-admin
testlist-bounces at valnet.net      testlist-bounces
testlist-confirm at valnet.net      testlist-confirm
testlist-join at valnet.net         testlist-join
testlist-leave at valnet.net        testlist-leave
testlist-owner at valnet.net        testlist-owner
testlist-request at valnet.net      testlist-request
testlist-subscribe at valnet.net    testlist-subscribe
testlist-unsubscribe at valnet.net  testlist-unsubscribe
# STANZA END: testlist

and /etc/mailman/aliases contents of:

# STANZA START: testlist
# CREATED: Wed Oct 12 13:16:32 2011
testlist:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist"
testlist-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin testlist"
testlist-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist"
testlist-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm testlist"
testlist-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join testlist"
testlist-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave testlist"
testlist-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner testlist"
testlist-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request testlist"
testlist-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe testlist"
testlist-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe testlist"
# STANZA END: testlist

But still, when I send a message to testlist at valnet.net a bounce is 
generated as:

<testlist at valnet.net>: unknown user: "testlist at valnet.net"

with an associated postfix log entry of:

Oct 12 13:17:22 mail postfix/virtual[30579]: 7B1FC416DB: 
to=<testlist at valnet.net>, relay=virtual, delay=0.06, 
delays=0.03/0/0/0.03, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (unknown user: 
"testlist at valnet.net")

Identical behavior was observed when changing 
VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN to 'localhost'.

The problem seems, to me, to be that the mail isn't making it to the 
"local" delivery agent; but I am new to postfix and mailman so I'm not 
really certain of how to make that happen.

Thanks in advance for any further advice,

  - Nick



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 13 02:06:47 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 17:06:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with postfix,
 using virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <4E95DC77.40608@valnet.net>
References: <4E939082.4050707@valnet.net> <4E94CC25.6080709@msapiro.net>
	<4E95DC77.40608@valnet.net>
Message-ID: <4E962B97.4060907@msapiro.net>

On 10/12/2011 11:29 AM, Nick Bright wrote:
> 
> Identical behavior was observed when changing VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN to 'localhost'.
>
> The problem seems, to me, to be that the mail isn't making it to the
> "local" delivery agent; but I am new to postfix and mailman so I'm not
> really certain of how to make that happen.


You are correct about the problem. virtual-mailman maps
testlist at valnet.net to testlist and postfix qualifies that with a domain
which is the value of myorigin which defaults to the value of myhostname
and that appears to be valnet.net which is not a local domain. So, if
that is what you want in Postfix, this is one of the cases where you do
need to specify VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN, and it needs to be one of
the domains in Postfix's mydestination. Normally (at least by default)
localhost is one of the domains in mydestination, but if you ran
bin/genaliases after setting

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'localhost'

and still had the problem, it must not be in your case. Try setting
VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN to one of the domains in mydestination and
run bin/genaliases.

If you are still stuck, please post the output from 'postconf -n'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mailman at veggiechinese.net  Thu Oct 13 03:58:50 2011
From: mailman at veggiechinese.net (William Yardley)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 18:58:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam filtering messages containing certain 8 bit
	characters
Message-ID: <CAC5JoL_wvjAijOZQiXB2bYvd+CYdSb2OYSLvLej7JHdnEf3KMw@mail.gmail.com>

Does Mailman base64 decode the subject before applying a regex, and if
so, can I use UTF-8 character names in the regex to match various
types of 8-bit characters?

Say, for example, that I want to block messages with "???" somewhere
in the subject line.

Obviously, the actual raw Subject header will be more like:

 Subject: =?GB2312?B?[encoded stuff here]?=
 Subject: =?utf-8?B?[encoded stuff here]?=

I tried putting in a regex to hold messages matching:
 Subject: .*\u7535\u8bdd\u5361

And that didn't seem to work. As far as I can tell, there is no way to
find a substring that will always match when the Subject header is
base64 encoded.

(Putting in 'Subject: .*&#30005;&#35805;&#21345;' also does not work).

From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Thu Oct 13 04:53:22 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:53:22 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with postfix,
 using virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <4E95DC77.40608@valnet.net>
References: <4E939082.4050707@valnet.net> <4E94CC25.6080709@msapiro.net>
	<4E95DC77.40608@valnet.net>
Message-ID: <4E9652A2.5010808@dutaint.co.id>

On 10/13/2011 01:29 AM, Nick Bright wrote:
> But still, when I send a message to testlist at valnet.net a bounce is
> generated as:
> 
> <testlist at valnet.net>: unknown user: "testlist at valnet.net"

Check out /etc/postfix/main.cf, it should have

mydestination = valnet.net


-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah



From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Thu Oct 13 05:05:03 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 10:05:03 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging List Administrator with List membership
In-Reply-To: <4E94D548.4010906@msapiro.net>
References: <PC195201110101830350265a36c66ec@MSAPIRO>
	<4E93A80F.50405@dutaint.co.id> <4E94D548.4010906@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4E96555F.10306@dutaint.co.id>

On 10/12/2011 06:46 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> > And then when any list-administrator/moderators make approval (of held
>> > messages) or add/remove any member, there is mail notification to
>> > listname-owner/listname-moderators that message has been approved or new
>> > member has been added or membership has been removed by
>> > <address-of-one-list-administrator>, that way other list-administrators
>> > know that someone has been did the job, no further action required.
> 
> These actions are currently logged, but no notices are sent. 

Which log?

> Notices
> would be difficult to implement in Mailman 2.1.x because there is no
> list method for notifying all owners/moderators except one.

I think notify to themselves (list-owner at list-domain.tld) should be
suffice the need, but still need info on the body text about who make
changes.
IMHO this kind of features is a must have for multi list-administrator /
list-moderators as on some of my mailing list.

> This seems like a reasonable request for MM 3 if it isn't already planned.

I hope MM 3.x developer can considering it to make make list
administrator live more easy :-)

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah



From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Oct 13 08:36:03 2011
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 15:36:03 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging List Administrator with List membership
In-Reply-To: <4E96555F.10306@dutaint.co.id>
References: <PC195201110101830350265a36c66ec@MSAPIRO>
	<4E93A80F.50405@dutaint.co.id> <4E94D548.4010906@msapiro.net>
	<4E96555F.10306@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <87lisppfe4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Syafril Hermansyah writes:

 > >> > And then when any list-administrator/moderators make approval (of held
 > >> > messages) or add/remove any member, there is mail notification to
 > >> > listname-owner/listname-moderators that message has been approved or new
 > >> > member has been added or membership has been removed by
 > >> > <address-of-one-list-administrator>, that way other list-administrators
 > >> > know that someone has been did the job, no further action required.

This is regularly requested, but I have a hard time understanding why
it's useful, unless you have really horrible connectivity to the list
admin pages.  All it's going to do is fill up people's mailboxes with
these messages, and everybody will get two messages per task instead
of one.  I think that the only reason this request keeps coming up is
that until it's implemented nobody will notice the practical problems
with it.

I administer about a dozen lists, and direct the "you have messages to
moderate" notices to the bitbucket.  I have a bookmark folder in
Firefox with a bookmark for each list's moderation queue.  When I'm
about to do admin work (two or three times a day), the first thing I
do is "Open All in Tabs", which usually takes 20-30 seconds.  The
password is in the bookmarks, which is a small security risk but I'm
not particularly worried about these lists.  Often I won't even wait,
but immediately turn to email or such.

When I'm ready to do moderation, I just run down the tabs, closing
each one when I'm done.  I used to keep all the tabs open and minimize
the window when done, but all too often I'd either forget to process a
list, or forget to refresh its page so that it looked like an empty
queue.  The "close when done, open all in tabs when ready to start
again" strategy works very well for me.

If you only have one list to moderate, but share it with others, then
clicking an icon or selecting the window from a menu, and hitting
refresh, is hardly more effort than dealing with an extra mail,
especially once it becomes part of the routine.

IMO YMMV, but really I think you should look at reorganizing the
existing workflow rather than adding to it.

From ptrschz at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 22:35:18 2011
From: ptrschz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Pedro_S=E1nchez?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 15:35:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on localhost
Message-ID: <4E95FA06.4000802@gmail.com>

Hi everyone...

Im trying to test mailman in my local server (127.0.0.1) whit local user.

the problem is that when i'm trying to add a new list whit the email 
address user at localhost mailman not allow me to do that or if i put a 
valid email address like user at domain.com mailman give an error when i'm 
trying to add local user to the list , local users has a emal address 
like this user at localhost

some clue?

Thank you

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 13 08:43:11 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 23:43:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with postfix,
 using virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <4E9652A2.5010808@dutaint.co.id>
References: <4E939082.4050707@valnet.net> <4E94CC25.6080709@msapiro.net>
	<4E95DC77.40608@valnet.net> <4E9652A2.5010808@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <4E96887F.3050604@msapiro.net>

On 10/12/2011 7:53 PM, Syafril Hermansyah wrote:
> On 10/13/2011 01:29 AM, Nick Bright wrote:
>> But still, when I send a message to testlist at valnet.net a bounce is
>> generated as:
>>
>> <testlist at valnet.net>: unknown user: "testlist at valnet.net"
> 
> Check out /etc/postfix/main.cf, it should have
> 
> mydestination = valnet.net


Except the OP's requirement was that valnet.net be a virtual mailbox domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 13 08:51:23 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 23:51:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging List Administrator with List membership
In-Reply-To: <4E96555F.10306@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <PC195201110122351220984d12968ae@MSAPIRO>

Syafril Hermansyah wrote:

>On 10/12/2011 06:46 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>> > And then when any list-administrator/moderators make approval (of held
>>> > messages) or add/remove any member, there is mail notification to
>>> > listname-owner/listname-moderators that message has been approved or new
>>> > member has been added or membership has been removed by
>>> > <address-of-one-list-administrator>, that way other list-administrators
>>> > know that someone has been did the job, no further action required.
>> 
>> These actions are currently logged, but no notices are sent. 
>
>Which log?


Member added/removed is logged in Mailman's 'subscribe' log.
Disposition of moderated post is logged in Mailman's 'vette' log.

These logs do not say which admin performed the action. for that, you
have to correlate with the web server logs which can give you at least
the IP the POST transaction came from.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 13 09:02:03 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 00:02:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on localhost
In-Reply-To: <4E95FA06.4000802@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201110130002030375ad31393a@MSAPIRO>

Pedro S?nchez wrote:
>
>Im trying to test mailman in my local server (127.0.0.1) whit local user.
>
>the problem is that when i'm trying to add a new list whit the email 
>address user at localhost mailman not allow me to do that


Correct. Mailman requires that email addresses be qualified with a
domain that contains at least one dot.


>or if i put a 
>valid email address like user at domain.com mailman give an error when i'm 
>trying to add local user to the list ,


What error?


>local users has a emal address 
>like this user at localhost
>
>some clue?


Try user@[127.0.0.1]

If that doesn't work, e.g. because your MTA doesn't accept domain
literals, you can edit the definition of the ValidateEmail(s) function
in Mailman/Utils.py to remove or comment the two lines

    if len(domain_parts) < 2:
        raise Errors.MMBadEmailError, s

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 13 09:29:57 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 00:29:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam filtering messages containing certain 8
 bit characters
In-Reply-To: <CAC5JoL_wvjAijOZQiXB2bYvd+CYdSb2OYSLvLej7JHdnEf3KMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC5JoL_wvjAijOZQiXB2bYvd+CYdSb2OYSLvLej7JHdnEf3KMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E969375.8020809@msapiro.net>

On 10/12/2011 6:58 PM, William Yardley wrote:
> Does Mailman base64 decode the subject before applying a regex, and if
> so, can I use UTF-8 character names in the regex to match various
> types of 8-bit characters?


No. header filter rules regexps are matched against the raw headers. If
a header is RFC2047 encoded, it is not decoded.


> Say, for example, that I want to block messages with "???" somewhere
> in the subject line.
> 
> Obviously, the actual raw Subject header will be more like:
> 
>  Subject: =?GB2312?B?[encoded stuff here]?=
>  Subject: =?utf-8?B?[encoded stuff here]?=
> 
> I tried putting in a regex to hold messages matching:
>  Subject: .*\u7535\u8bdd\u5361
> 
> And that didn't seem to work. As far as I can tell, there is no way to
> find a substring that will always match when the Subject header is
> base64 encoded.


I think this is correct. Each 3 bytes which are base64 encoded result in
a 4-character base64 substring. If the characters you are looking for
are encoded as a multiple of 3 bytes and begin on a 3-byte boundary,
they will encode to a unique base64 string, but if they don't begin and
end on a 3-byte boundary the base64 substring will be affected by what
comes before and/or after. Thus, I don't think you can reliably match,
even if you are only dealing with a single character set.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Thu Oct 13 09:46:34 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 14:46:34 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging List Administrator with List membership
In-Reply-To: <87lisppfe4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC195201110101830350265a36c66ec@MSAPIRO>	<4E93A80F.50405@dutaint.co.id>	<4E94D548.4010906@msapiro.net>	<4E96555F.10306@dutaint.co.id>
	<87lisppfe4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4E96975A.7050400@dutaint.co.id>

On 10/13/2011 01:36 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> This is regularly requested, but I have a hard time understanding why
> it's useful, unless you have really horrible connectivity to the list
> admin pages.  

> IMO YMMV, but really I think you should look at reorganizing the
> existing workflow rather than adding to it.

I commonly just act as list-maintainer for most mailing list that host
on my list server, only a few list that I have job as
list-administrator/list-moderators (technical mailing list).

Most mailing list are for small community (alumni of colleges, alumni of
senior high schools, alumni of junior high schools etc) which I don't
always follow, and the most list owner are lack of IT knowledge even too
old to learn the new technology but they (the list owner) are capable
enough to moderate the list, directing the discussion.
They trust me to run mailing list on my list server instead of at
yahoogroups or googlegroups because they know I will help them just in
case problems.

So I speak for them, who has a little knowledge of IT but willing to run
mailing list.
The need of notification for me it just make sure the real list-owner
already did the job after enough learning curve so I can leave it them
alone someday.

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah



From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Thu Oct 13 10:08:37 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 15:08:37 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging List Administrator with List membership
In-Reply-To: <PC195201110122351220984d12968ae@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201110122351220984d12968ae@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E969C85.6070509@dutaint.co.id>

On 10/13/2011 01:51 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> These actions are currently logged, but no notices are sent. 
>> >
>> >Which log?
> 
> Member added/removed is logged in Mailman's 'subscribe' log.
> Disposition of moderated post is logged in Mailman's 'vette' log.

Thanks Mark, as always you are helpful :-)

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah




From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Thu Oct 13 10:24:31 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 15:24:31 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with postfix,
 using virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <4E96887F.3050604@msapiro.net>
References: <4E939082.4050707@valnet.net> <4E94CC25.6080709@msapiro.net>
	<4E95DC77.40608@valnet.net> <4E9652A2.5010808@dutaint.co.id>
	<4E96887F.3050604@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4E96A03F.2070305@dutaint.co.id>

On 10/13/2011 01:43 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Check out /etc/postfix/main.cf, it should have
>> > 
>> > mydestination = valnet.net
> 
> Except the OP's requirement was that valnet.net be a virtual mailbox domain.

That's not wise IMHO, better to separate domain for list server and
virtual mailbox domain.
Suppose valnet.net already use as virtual mailbox domain, create new
subdomain list.valve.net for mailing list.

At first I set my postfix also as virtual mailbox domain because I need
mail forwarding but at the end I change my mind by setting up mailbox
redirecting in postfix, that way I don't need to install dovecot etc :-)

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah



From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Oct 13 11:24:04 2011
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:24:04 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging List Administrator with List membership
In-Reply-To: <4E96975A.7050400@dutaint.co.id>
References: <PC195201110101830350265a36c66ec@MSAPIRO>
	<4E93A80F.50405@dutaint.co.id> <4E94D548.4010906@msapiro.net>
	<4E96555F.10306@dutaint.co.id>
	<87lisppfe4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<4E96975A.7050400@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <87hb3dp7m3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Syafril Hermansyah writes:

 > So I speak for them, who has a little knowledge of IT but willing to run
 > mailing list.

Well, if they have little knowledge of IT, then you should do the
workflow analysis for them.  It's not a good idea to just do what
users request, because they don't know what the capabilities are.

 > The need of notification for me it just make sure the real list-owner
 > already did the job after enough learning curve so I can leave it them
 > alone someday.

That's a different matter.  If the only person who really needs the
service is you, then I would think you would prefer a periodic summary
of all lists.  I don't think it's possible with the current version of
bin/show_qfiles, but it shouldn't be too hard to improve that script
to gather information from lists/*/pending.pck and sort them by time,
oldest first.  Then you know which lists haven't been moderated for
quite a long time, and need attention.  Then run that cron job daily
(I would think that's enough for the kind of list you describe).

I'm sorry I don't have the time to do it, though.  Maybe somebody
already has such a script?


From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Thu Oct 13 11:57:36 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 16:57:36 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging List Administrator with List membership
In-Reply-To: <87hb3dp7m3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC195201110101830350265a36c66ec@MSAPIRO>	<4E93A80F.50405@dutaint.co.id>	<4E94D548.4010906@msapiro.net>	<4E96555F.10306@dutaint.co.id>	<87lisppfe4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<4E96975A.7050400@dutaint.co.id>
	<87hb3dp7m3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4E96B610.40300@dutaint.co.id>

On 10/13/2011 04:24 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>  > So I speak for them, who has a little knowledge of IT but willing to run
>  > mailing list.
> 
> Well, if they have little knowledge of IT, then you should do the
> workflow analysis for them.  It's not a good idea to just do what
> users request, because they don't know what the capabilities are.

That's what I did, I tried to tech them how to manage the mailing list
and some of the result I am declaring here since I also lack of
knowledge of Mailman and Postfix (I was running Listar aka ecartis with
Exim since 2001, they said MailMan less techiest than Listar but too
many hidden menu).

>  > The need of notification for me it just make sure the real list-owner
>  > already did the job after enough learning curve so I can leave it them
>  > alone someday.
> 
> That's a different matter.  If the only person who really needs the
> service is you, then I would think you would prefer a periodic summary
> of all lists.

Indeed, actually listar/ecartis give me this kind of notice by adding me
as (hidden) super-admin at any list and enable "daily/weekly report"
(also "diagnostic report"), but I think no need for Mailman do by far,
notices of someone did changes of membership/password is suffice for me,
at least for now.

> I don't think it's possible with the current version of
> bin/show_qfiles, but it shouldn't be too hard to improve that script
> to gather information from lists/*/pending.pck and sort them by time,
> oldest first.  Then you know which lists haven't been moderated for
> quite a long time, and need attention.  Then run that cron job daily
> (I would think that's enough for the kind of list you describe).
> 
> I'm sorry I don't have the time to do it, though.  Maybe somebody
> already has such a script?

I don't have programming knowledge, so I can not do that myself :-(
Anyhow, thanks for your attention


-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah



From mollatt at yoafrica.com  Thu Oct 13 14:02:45 2011
From: mollatt at yoafrica.com (Mollatt Ntini)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 14:02:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch
Message-ID: <4E96D365.6020307@yoafrica.com>

Dear List,

I hope I find you all well. I hope someone can point me in the right 
direction. I am getting this group mismatch error on my list server:

=====
mailman at lists.me.com R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport: Child process 
of mailman_transport transport returned 2 from command: 
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
=====

My server specs are as follows:

=====
FreeBSD 8.2
Exim 4.76
Python 2.7.2
Mailman 2.1.14
=====

On checking again, I get:
=====
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post
Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
wrapper script to be executed as group "mail", but
the system's mail server executed the mail script as
group "wheel".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
script as group "mail", or re-run configure,
providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=wheel'.
=====

... and this was after I had recompiled mailman with wheel as the "gid" 
which it was expecting. Before then it was giving me:

=====
Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman other mail daemon", but
the system's mail server executed the mail script as
group "wheel".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
script as group "mailman other mail daemon", or re-run configure,
providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=wheel'.
=====

I am not sure what I am missing.

Many thanks,

Molla.

From ptrschz at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 15:43:56 2011
From: ptrschz at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGVkcm8gU8OhbmNoZXo=?=)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 08:43:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on localhost
In-Reply-To: <PC195201110130002030375ad31393a@MSAPIRO>
References: <4E95FA06.4000802@gmail.com>
	<PC195201110130002030375ad31393a@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E96EB1C.90706@gmail.com>

thanks to all...

I resolv this problem... my users are local users, so when i add them 
to some list just input the email address on this way: 
user at localhost.localdomain and that was all. the problem was solved.

Thanks again.

Cheers!




From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 13 18:24:23 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:24:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging List Administrator with List membership
In-Reply-To: <4E96B610.40300@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <PC195201110130924230437bde9f98c@MSAPIRO>

Syafril Hermansyah wrote:

>On 10/13/2011 04:24 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
>> I don't think it's possible with the current version of
>> bin/show_qfiles, but it shouldn't be too hard to improve that script
>> to gather information from lists/*/pending.pck and sort them by time,
>> oldest first.  Then you know which lists haven't been moderated for
>> quite a long time, and need attention.  Then run that cron job daily
>> (I would think that's enough for the kind of list you describe).
>> 
>> I'm sorry I don't have the time to do it, though.  Maybe somebody
>> already has such a script?
>
>I don't have programming knowledge, so I can not do that myself :-(
>Anyhow, thanks for your attention


There is a script to list the pending requests for a list at
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_pending>. This could be run via a
shell script like

#!/bin/sh
cd /path/to/mailman
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`; do
  echo $list
  bin/list_pending [desired options] $list
done

Or if desired, you could collect the output in a file and sort or
otherwise manipulate it.

There is also the Mailman daily status report script (mmdsr) in the
contrib directory of the Mailman distribution.

Finally, there is the daily summary of pending requests (produced by
cron/checkdbs) that Mailman already produces for each list and mails
to the admins and moderators.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 13 18:35:12 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:35:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch
In-Reply-To: <4E96D365.6020307@yoafrica.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201110130935120859ccca1fe7@MSAPIRO>

Mollatt Ntini wrote:
>
>I hope I find you all well. I hope someone can point me in the right 
>direction. I am getting this group mismatch error on my list server:
>
>=====
>mailman at lists.me.com R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport: Child process 
>of mailman_transport transport returned 2 from command: 
>/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
>=====
>
>My server specs are as follows:
>
>=====
>FreeBSD 8.2
>Exim 4.76
>Python 2.7.2
>Mailman 2.1.14
>=====
>
>On checking again, I get:
>=====
>/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post
>Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
>wrapper script to be executed as group "mail", but
>the system's mail server executed the mail script as
>group "wheel".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
>script as group "mail", or re-run configure,
>providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=wheel'.
>=====
>
>... and this was after I had recompiled mailman with wheel as the "gid" 
>which it was expecting. Before then it was giving me:
>
>=====
>Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
>wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman other mail daemon", but
>the system's mail server executed the mail script as
>group "wheel".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
>script as group "mailman other mail daemon", or re-run configure,
>providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=wheel'.
>=====
>
>I am not sure what I am missing.


First of all, from the first message you quote, it looks like you
reconfigured with --with-mail-gid=mail rather than with
--with-mail-gid=wheel.

Rather than making further changes to Mailman, you can set the group
for the mailman_transport in Exim. See
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Thu Oct 13 18:54:23 2011
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:54:23 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with postfix,
 using virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <4E96A03F.2070305@dutaint.co.id>
References: <4E939082.4050707@valnet.net> <4E94CC25.6080709@msapiro.net>
	<4E95DC77.40608@valnet.net> <4E9652A2.5010808@dutaint.co.id>
	<4E96887F.3050604@msapiro.net> <4E96A03F.2070305@dutaint.co.id>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1110131853250.3224@data.home>

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011, Syafril Hermansyah wrote:

> That's not wise IMHO, better to separate domain for list server and
> virtual mailbox domain.

I've *never* had to do this and believe it just creates unecesary 
complexity where it's not needed.

Geoff.


From kududot at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 22:21:50 2011
From: kududot at gmail.com (Kudu)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 16:21:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not getting to mailman
Message-ID: <CAJjYFv-DOmkav=a+_xee9fpb-v6EtwuxpfwTP7cnSMWkycP0YA@mail.gmail.com>

When I send messages to mailman, they don't seem to be received by it
and don't end up in the archives.

One example from syslog:
Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials postfix/smtpd[18546]: 5819914DC14:
client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials postfix/cleanup[18548]: 5819914DC14:
message-id=<mailman.0.1318510802.18540.openglobe-l at lists.techessentials.org>
Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials postfix/smtpd[18546]: disconnect from
localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials postfix/qmgr[353]: 5819914DC14:
from=<openglobe-l-bounces at lists.techessentials.org>, size=2245,
nrcpt=1 (queue active)Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials
postfix/smtpd[18546]: disconnect from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Oct 13 08:00:09 techessentials postfix/pipe[18549]: 5819914DC14:
to=<openglobe-l-owner at lists.techessentials.org>, relay=mailman,
delay=0.83, delays=0.18/0.02/0/0.63, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered
via mailman service)
Oct 13 08:00:09 techessentials postfix/qmgr[353]: 5819914DC14: removed

How can I fix this?

Note: I'm not subscribed to the list, so please keep me CC'd.

-- 
~ Kudu

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Oct 14 02:20:58 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:20:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not getting to mailman
In-Reply-To: <CAJjYFv-DOmkav=a+_xee9fpb-v6EtwuxpfwTP7cnSMWkycP0YA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201110131720580171640c97e5@MSAPIRO>

Kudu wrote:

>When I send messages to mailman, they don't seem to be received by it
>and don't end up in the archives.
>
>One example from syslog:
>Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials postfix/smtpd[18546]: 5819914DC14:
>client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials postfix/cleanup[18548]: 5819914DC14:
>message-id=<mailman.0.1318510802.18540.openglobe-l at lists.techessentials.org>


This is a Mailman generated notice of some kind. I can tell from the
Message-ID.


>Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials postfix/smtpd[18546]: disconnect from
>localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials postfix/qmgr[353]: 5819914DC14:
>from=<openglobe-l-bounces at lists.techessentials.org>, size=2245,
>nrcpt=1 (queue active)Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials
>postfix/smtpd[18546]: disconnect from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 13 08:00:09 techessentials postfix/pipe[18549]: 5819914DC14:
>to=<openglobe-l-owner at lists.techessentials.org>, relay=mailman,
>delay=0.83, delays=0.18/0.02/0/0.63, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered
>via mailman service)
>Oct 13 08:00:09 techessentials postfix/qmgr[353]: 5819914DC14: removed


And it was delivered by a 'mailman' transport (most likely the
officially unsupported by the GNU Mailman project, third party,
postfix-to-mailman.py from a Debian/Ubuntu package) to
openglobe-l-owner at lists.techessentials.org. It should have then been
received by Mailman and resent as a separate message to the list's
owners and moderators.

The above message was not a post to the
openglobe-l at lists.techessentials.org list, although it may have been
precipitated by a post.


>How can I fix this?


Please see the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD> and
<http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.


>Note: I'm not subscribed to the list, so please keep me CC'd.


Please read the entire "About Mailman-Users" section of the listinfo
page at <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>
including the paragraph that begins "This mailing list is closed to
postings from non-subscribers."

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Fri Oct 14 02:54:26 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 07:54:26 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with postfix,
 using virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1110131853250.3224@data.home>
References: <4E939082.4050707@valnet.net> <4E94CC25.6080709@msapiro.net>
	<4E95DC77.40608@valnet.net> <4E9652A2.5010808@dutaint.co.id>
	<4E96887F.3050604@msapiro.net> <4E96A03F.2070305@dutaint.co.id>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1110131853250.3224@data.home>
Message-ID: <4E978842.8080408@dutaint.co.id>

On 10/13/2011 11:54 PM, Geoff Shang wrote:
>> That's not wise IMHO, better to separate domain for list server and
>> virtual mailbox domain.
> 
> I've *never* had to do this and believe it just creates unecesary
> complexity where it's not needed.

This recommendation for public mailing list, not for internal use only.
When we used same domain for virtual mailbox domain and mailing list
sometimes sender/poster confused which address for mailing list or
mailbox, unless we made special name/arrangement such Listname-L at domain.tld.

Making separate domains just to make simple/clear from sender/poster
point of view also making the configuration on postfix/mailman quite simple.
Just in case in the future the traffic of mailing list growing up which
can make mail for ordinary (corporate) affected, we can move all of
mailing list to other host.
If you run your own DNS server, creation of subdomain is no cost (no
need to buy/pay to domain registrar/registrant).


-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah



From syafril at dutaint.co.id  Fri Oct 14 02:56:36 2011
From: syafril at dutaint.co.id (Syafril Hermansyah)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 07:56:36 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging List Administrator with List membership
In-Reply-To: <PC195201110130924230437bde9f98c@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201110130924230437bde9f98c@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E9788C4.3010207@dutaint.co.id>

On 10/13/2011 11:24 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> There is a script to list the pending requests for a list at
> <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_pending>. 

Thanks, will take a look later.

-- 
syafril
-------
Syafril Hermansyah



From mollatt at yoafrica.com  Fri Oct 14 04:22:04 2011
From: mollatt at yoafrica.com (Mollatt Ntini)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 04:22:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch
In-Reply-To: <PC195201110130935120859ccca1fe7@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201110130935120859ccca1fe7@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E979CCC.1020104@yoafrica.com>

On 10/13/2011 6:35 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mollatt Ntini wrote:
>> [SNIP]
>
> First of all, from the first message you quote, it looks like you
> reconfigured with --with-mail-gid=mail rather than with
> --with-mail-gid=wheel.
>
> Rather than making further changes to Mailman, you can set the group
> for the mailman_transport in Exim. See
> <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>.
I had actually set the gid=0 which is wheel's group ID in the Makefile. 
I do not even have the group=mail on my system. I have tried tweaking 
around according to that link, but still no joy. What do you think 
should change?

Thanx again.

Molla.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Oct 14 05:09:36 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 20:09:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch
In-Reply-To: <4E979CCC.1020104@yoafrica.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201110132009360843eedd80af@MSAPIRO>

Mollatt Ntini wrote:
>I had actually set the gid=0 which is wheel's group ID in the Makefile. 
>I do not even have the group=mail on my system. I have tried tweaking 
>around according to that link, but still no joy. What do you think 
>should change?


I would do the following:

First, I would not use group wheel. It is too privileged. You could use
'mailman', or 'daemon' or some other non-priveleged group that seems
appropriate.

Assuming you choose mailman, rerun configure with
--with-mail-gid=mailman and make install.

Then in your Exim config in the definition of the mailman_transport
transport, put

  user              = mailman
  group             = mailman

or if you already have something like

  user              = MM_UID
  group             = MM_GID

find the definitions of these and make them

MM_UID=mailman
MM_GID=mailman


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ednpride at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 14 02:15:43 2011
From: ednpride at hotmail.com (Edward Negron)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:15:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not getting to mailman
In-Reply-To: <CAJjYFv-DOmkav=a+_xee9fpb-v6EtwuxpfwTP7cnSMWkycP0YA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJjYFv-DOmkav=a+_xee9fpb-v6EtwuxpfwTP7cnSMWkycP0YA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU164-W4621D26D109794F8A31A93CAE10@phx.gbl>


I have been getting the same complaints from folks on our list a well. I sent out test emails earlier today and have not seen the posts.  Any clue what is going on and how to fix this issue? 

Ed Negron
Visit my BLOG the "Work-In" at 
http://thework-in.blogspot.com  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
?We can overcome if we change the way we See: See ourselves, See our past, See our possibilities.? Daniel Beaty -Emergence See- 


"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go, instead, where there is no path and leave a trail." Ralph Waldo Emerson

 > Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 16:21:50 -0400
> From: kududot at gmail.com
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not getting to mailman
> 
> When I send messages to mailman, they don't seem to be received by it
> and don't end up in the archives.
> 
> One example from syslog:
> Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials postfix/smtpd[18546]: 5819914DC14:
> client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
> Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials postfix/cleanup[18548]: 5819914DC14:
> message-id=<mailman.0.1318510802.18540.openglobe-l at lists.techessentials.org>
> Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials postfix/smtpd[18546]: disconnect from
> localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
> Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials postfix/qmgr[353]: 5819914DC14:
> from=<openglobe-l-bounces at lists.techessentials.org>, size=2245,
> nrcpt=1 (queue active)Oct 13 08:00:08 techessentials
> postfix/smtpd[18546]: disconnect from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
> Oct 13 08:00:09 techessentials postfix/pipe[18549]: 5819914DC14:
> to=<openglobe-l-owner at lists.techessentials.org>, relay=mailman,
> delay=0.83, delays=0.18/0.02/0/0.63, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered
> via mailman service)
> Oct 13 08:00:09 techessentials postfix/qmgr[353]: 5819914DC14: removed
> 
> How can I fix this?
> 
> Note: I'm not subscribed to the list, so please keep me CC'd.
> 
> -- 
> ~ Kudu
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ednpride%40hotmail.com
 		 	   		  

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Oct 14 08:16:45 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 23:16:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not getting to mailman
In-Reply-To: <BLU164-W4621D26D109794F8A31A93CAE10@phx.gbl>
References: <CAJjYFv-DOmkav=a+_xee9fpb-v6EtwuxpfwTP7cnSMWkycP0YA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU164-W4621D26D109794F8A31A93CAE10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4E97D3CD.9090501@msapiro.net>

On 10/13/2011 5:15 PM, Edward Negron wrote:
> 
> I have been getting the same complaints from folks on our list a well. I sent out test emails earlier today and have not seen the posts.  Any clue what is going on and how to fix this issue? 


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ltymowski at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 13:25:57 2011
From: ltymowski at gmail.com (Luke Tymowski)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 05:25:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Empty emails to the list
Message-ID: <2AD2F0F9B540405695DA6F8CAE0917F5@gmail.com>

Hello, 

We have a problem with email from one user to our list: the body of his email is stripped once Mailman forwards his mail to the list.
His very first email to the list, which had to be approved, showed the email body. But once Mailman forwarded it to the list, the body was stripped.

Here's what I think is the relevant bit of header and body:

-----
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
<p>Hi Jason,</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>My account has been deactivated. I would appreciate if you direct me to re-activate it.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Thanks,</p><p>Shayan</p>

----

Any ideas?

thanks,

Luke



From ltymowski at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 14:45:15 2011
From: ltymowski at gmail.com (Luke Tymowski)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 06:45:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Empty emails to the list
In-Reply-To: <cecaceb7-548a-4995-9fe6-a8ad88d7a2e3@email.android.com>
References: <2AD2F0F9B540405695DA6F8CAE0917F5@gmail.com>
	<cecaceb7-548a-4995-9fe6-a8ad88d7a2e3@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <7F48B7025E314B35B5588647CDC417C5@gmail.com>

 Hello Mark, 

> Check your list's content filtering. Do you accept text/html? What is the filter_action setting?

The filter_action is set to convert html mail to plain text.
I've used 3 different MUAs to send html formatted mail to Mailman, and depending on the list settings I try, the mail is either passed through as html or converted to plain text without issue.

Could the remote server be munging the headers etc and that causes Mailman to strip everything out from the body?


Luke

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Oct 16 14:26:43 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 05:26:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Empty emails to the list
In-Reply-To: <2AD2F0F9B540405695DA6F8CAE0917F5@gmail.com>
References: <2AD2F0F9B540405695DA6F8CAE0917F5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cecaceb7-548a-4995-9fe6-a8ad88d7a2e3@email.android.com>



uke Tymowski <ltymowski at gmail.com> wrote:

>Hello, 
>
>We have a problem with email from one user to our list: the body of his
>email is stripped once Mailman forwards his mail to the list.
>His very first email to the list, which had to be approved, showed the
>email body. But once Mailman forwarded it to the list, the body was
>stripped.
>
>Here's what I think is the relevant bit of header and body:
>
>-----
>MIME-version: 1.0
>Content-type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
><p>Hi Jason,</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>My account has been deactivated. I
>would appreciate if you direct me to re-activate
>it.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Thanks,</p><p>Shayan</p>
>
>----


Check your list's content filtering. Do you accept text/html? What is the filter_action setting?


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Oct 16 17:28:31 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 08:28:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Empty emails to the list
In-Reply-To: <7F48B7025E314B35B5588647CDC417C5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201110160828310635b9a5769a@Notebook-09>

Luke Tymowski wrote:
>
>> Check your list's content filtering. Do you accept text/html? What is the filter_action setting?
>
>The filter_action is set to convert html mail to plain text.
>I've used 3 different MUAs to send html formatted mail to Mailman, and depending on the list settings I try, the mail is either passed through as html or converted to plain text without issue.


The various content-type filters are applied before
convert_html_to_plaintext. Thus, you must have text/html in
pass_mime_types in order to accept and convert the HTML part.

If this is not the answer, there is prfobably some issue with
HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/7YA9>.

You may be mistaking selection of a text/plain alternative for HTML to
plain text conversion.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anotheranne at fables.co.za  Sun Oct 16 15:09:06 2011
From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 15:09:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] throttling mailman for a relay smtp server
Message-ID: <20111016150906.64e18680@pandora>

Hello,

My isp decided to close his Mailman server,  so you know the bit about
fools and angels... 

Following the link below I got my list up and running only to find
Mailman can send so many posts in so short a time that I overloaded my
isp's smtp server with dire results :(

http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/running_gnu_mailman_at_home
(I found you have to add forwarding addresses and aliases for
list-bounces which this article ignores)

So Mailman 2.1.12 on ubuntu with fetchmail, postfix, smtp relay via isp

OK, i have more names than a family list, so  investigating ideas for
throttling I am left confused.

1. I read Mailman FAQ 4.51 "How do I limit the rate (throttle) at
which Mailman sends mail?"

2. I see the policyd link but this look a little complex (and scary) for
my needs (<2000 members, outgoing posts only, one per month tops, maybe
switch on postfix/fetchmail/mailman only when needed)

2. I see a patch for SMTPDirect that looks like it might be good and
perhaps an easier route

3. Then I see Mailman FAQ 4.72 "How do I configure Mailman to use an
external SMTP server?"

4. confusion because this says "In mm_cfg.py add or modify:
	DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
	SMTPHOST = 'mail.example.com' "

and they are not in my mm_cfg.py and anyway we are running with postfix

??? does SMTPDirect replace having postfix do the smtp-ing?
??? the patch patches SMTPDirect so it won't do anything if I do not
explicitly declare it in mm_cfg.py?
??? what will happen then?
??? should I just patch it anyway and it will go for me?

Someone please illuminate me a bit here on the true path ahead.

thanks for any and all comments

Anne





From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Oct 16 18:20:21 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 09:20:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] throttling mailman for a relay smtp server
In-Reply-To: <20111016150906.64e18680@pandora>
References: <20111016150906.64e18680@pandora>
Message-ID: <4E9B0445.3020200@msapiro.net>

On 10/16/2011 6:09 AM, Anne Wainwright wrote:

> 2. I see a patch for SMTPDirect that looks like it might be good and
> perhaps an easier route


It should work.


> 3. Then I see Mailman FAQ 4.72 "How do I configure Mailman to use an
> external SMTP server?"
> 
> 4. confusion because this says "In mm_cfg.py add or modify:
> 	DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
> 	SMTPHOST = 'mail.example.com' "
> 
> and they are not in my mm_cfg.py and anyway we are running with postfix


SMTPDirect is the default. See Defaults.py.

The default for SMTPHOST is 'localhost', i.e. your Postfix. If you
override this in mm_cfg.py, you are saying connect to port 25 of
whatever host you specify to send the mail rather than your own Postfix.


> ??? does SMTPDirect replace having postfix do the smtp-ing?


No. SMTPDirect is the Mailman module that delivers to your Postfix (or
to SMTPHOST) via SMTP. There is no viable alternative - the 'Sendmail'
module is NOT recommended.


> ??? the patch patches SMTPDirect so it won't do anything if I do not
> explicitly declare it in mm_cfg.py?


Wrong. SMTPDirect is the default handler.


> ??? what will happen then?
> ??? should I just patch it anyway and it will go for me?


Probably.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anotheranne at fables.co.za  Sun Oct 16 22:19:16 2011
From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:19:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 4.12 "What about Verp" as applicable to sending
	to a relay host
Message-ID: <20111016221916.4f95d022@pandora>

Hello,

Not that I am going to switch on Verp, but ...

I read this, and interesting sums there too. I note that Defaults.py
still carries SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500 despite good conclusions in the FAQ
based upon a statistical analysis of a large mailing list user base that
the sweet spot is likely between 2 and 5.

In my case where I am relaying to the isp's smtp server I indeed do
have all my posts to one domain and so I presume that a larger value
could be appropriate?

Given that they limit me to 100 recipients per smtp session it would
seem that I should adjust this downwards to <100 (in mm_cfg.py) to avoid
breaking this rule.

Please tell me that I'm heading in the right direction here.

bestest
Anne

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Sun Oct 16 22:22:54 2011
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:22:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 4.12 "What about Verp" as applicable to
 sending to a relay host
In-Reply-To: <20111016221916.4f95d022@pandora>
References: <20111016221916.4f95d022@pandora>
Message-ID: <20111016202254.GB3420@charite.de>

* Anne Wainwright <anotheranne at fables.co.za>:
> Hello,
> 
> Not that I am going to switch on Verp, but ...
> 
> I read this, and interesting sums there too. I note that Defaults.py
> still carries SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500 despite good conclusions in the FAQ
> based upon a statistical analysis of a large mailing list user base that
> the sweet spot is likely between 2 and 5.

Well, it doesn't hurt. Let the MTA do the sorting and splitting.
 
> In my case where I am relaying to the isp's smtp server I indeed do
> have all my posts to one domain and so I presume that a larger value
> could be appropriate?

Yes.

> Given that they limit me to 100 recipients per smtp session it would
> seem that I should adjust this downwards to <100 (in mm_cfg.py) to avoid
> breaking this rule.

Yep.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From plichten at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 02:51:10 2011
From: plichten at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 20:51:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove Members waiting for Moderator Approval
 viaCommand Line
In-Reply-To: <PC195201110111751430843dbd1e136@MSAPIRO>
References: <CANgetreP478ZV_Eqj6M+=QAnuYpkVmmfpcsMLh6JBxDVdXoMeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201110111751430843dbd1e136@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CANgetrfkwM6oY4bH4kwaRh6kgwTc+y3RxjarVpgZChQTgup2tA@mail.gmail.com>

Mark,
Thanks for the help.  When I tried to run the database dump, it looks like
it might be encrypted.  Does this look right to you?
Thanks
Phil.

[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
{   '0b9e53af60a8139e94986c07bcd3b092a0e5a26c': ('H', 10),
    '9dc482c780b8131cf518d6908b580e69dcdb36ee': ('H', 11),
    'a4820f58310f6f028ed5cdd2eaad0e407ac3dfa9': ('H', 9),
    'evictions': {   '0b9e53af60a8139e94986c07bcd3b092a0e5a26c':
1313195808.891789,
                     '9dc482c780b8131cf518d6908b580e69dcdb36ee':
1313281235.9221661,
                     'a4820f58310f6f028ed5cdd2eaad0e407ac3dfa9':
1313173460.4197421},
    'version': 2}
[----- end pickle file -----]




-- 

Phil / w2lie
Monitor Long Island, Inc. <http://www.monitorlongisland.com/> |
W2LIE.net<http://www.w2lie.net/>|
LongIslandFirePhotos.com <http://www.longislandfirephotos.com/>
 <http://www.w2lie.net/charity>

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Phil wrote:
> >
> >I'm trying to kill a pending subscription to a mailing list via the
> command
> >line because the domain owner forgot to register the main domain of our
> site
> >and we can't approve/deny membership via the web admin interface.
> >
> >I've tried to remove the e-mail address pending approval via the
> >remove_members command and it seem to only react to active and approved
> >members of a mailing list.
>
>
> That's correct. remove_members only removes members. A pending
> subscription is not (yet) a member.
>
>
> >Is there a way to approve / deny a pending user request via shell?
>
>
> Do you mean a subscription request that is waiting moderator approval
> because subscribe_policy is 'Require approval' or 'Confirm and
> approve' or one that is waiting user confirmation because
> subscribe_policy is 'Confirm' or 'Confirm and approve'? It seems you
> mean the former.
>
> Deleting a subscription waiting approval is a multi step process with
> existing tools.
>
> First run
>
> /path/to/mailman/bin/dumpdb /path/to/mailman/lists/LISTNAME/pending.pck
>
> This will report something like
>
> [----- start pickle file -----]
> <----- start object 1 ----->
> {   104: (   2,
>             (   1318366634.8118629,
>                 'user at example.com',
>                 'User Name',
>                 'tuufwuge',
>                 False,
>                 'en')),
>    'version': (0, 1)}
> [----- end pickle file -----]
>
>
> There may be more entries than above, but those other than
>
>    'version': (0, 1)
>
> are all pending requests of some kind. Each will have a numeric key,
> 104 in the above followed by a 2-tuple consisting of a number
> indicating the request type (1 for a held message, 2 for a held
> subscription or 3 for a held unsubscription) and a tuple of
> information the format of which depends on the type.
>
> You are interested in type 2 as above and the information tuple is
> (time stamp, e-mail address, real name, password, digest flag,
> language). Find the key(s) of the one(s) you want to discard, in the
> example above, 104.
>
> Then run
>
> /path/to/mailman/bin/withlist -l LISTNAME
>
> which will respond
>
> Loading list LISTNAME (locked)
> The variable `m' is the LISTNAME MailList instance
> >>>
>
> at the >>> prompts, type
>
> >>> from Mailman.mm_cfg import DISCARD
> >>> m.HandleRequest(104, DISCARD)
>
> (Use the key from your request instead of 104 - this should not print
> any error. You can repeat the above multiple times with other keys if
> you have more that one request to discard.)
>
> >>> m.Save()
>
> (This is important to save the state of the list.)
>
> >>>       <- at this prompt type control-D to exit which should respond
> Unlocking (but not saving) list: LISTNAME
> Finalizing
>
> The discards will be logged in Mailman's vette log.
>
> The above method can be used to discard a held message, but Mailman's
> bin/discard is simpler.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct 18 05:31:33 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 20:31:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove Members waiting for Moderator
	ApprovalviaCommand Line
In-Reply-To: <CANgetrfkwM6oY4bH4kwaRh6kgwTc+y3RxjarVpgZChQTgup2tA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011101720313308703fbe0787@Notebook-09>

Phil wrote:
>
>Mark,
>Thanks for the help.  When I tried to run the database dump, it looks like
>it might be encrypted.  Does this look right to you?
>Thanks
>Phil.
>
>[----- start pickle file -----]
><----- start object 1 ----->
>{   '0b9e53af60a8139e94986c07bcd3b092a0e5a26c': ('H', 10),
>    '9dc482c780b8131cf518d6908b580e69dcdb36ee': ('H', 11),
>    'a4820f58310f6f028ed5cdd2eaad0e407ac3dfa9': ('H', 9),
>    'evictions': {   '0b9e53af60a8139e94986c07bcd3b092a0e5a26c':
>1313195808.891789,
>                     '9dc482c780b8131cf518d6908b580e69dcdb36ee':
>1313281235.9221661,
>                     'a4820f58310f6f028ed5cdd2eaad0e407ac3dfa9':
>1313173460.4197421},
>    'version': 2}
>[----- end pickle file -----]


My mistake. I meant to say dump request.pck, not pending.pck. The dump
above of pending.pck shows 3 held messages keyed by the confirmation
cookie that could be used to discard the message. The newest of these
cookies expired at 1313281235.9221661 = Sat Aug 13 17:20:35 2011.

The dump of request.pck shows the records that are waiting moderator
action and should look as I described.


>On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>> First run
>>
>> /path/to/mailman/bin/dumpdb /path/to/mailman/lists/LISTNAME/pending.pck

Should be request.pck, not pending.pck.

>> This will report something like
>>
>> [----- start pickle file -----]
>> <----- start object 1 ----->
>> {   104: (   2,
>>             (   1318366634.8118629,
>>                 'user at example.com',
>>                 'User Name',
>>                 'tuufwuge',
>>                 False,
>>                 'en')),
>>    'version': (0, 1)}
>> [----- end pickle file -----]

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From plichten at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 13:13:31 2011
From: plichten at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 07:13:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove Members waiting for Moderator
 ApprovalviaCommand Line
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011101720313308703fbe0787@Notebook-09>
References: <CANgetrfkwM6oY4bH4kwaRh6kgwTc+y3RxjarVpgZChQTgup2tA@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952011101720313308703fbe0787@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <CANgetre+0tbAjuEWAMhPLbodkS4KY4FK-4naeiXR6P-rFZfMug@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for the help Mark.
It looks like the request.pck worked.

-- 

Phil / w2lie
Monitor Long Island, Inc. <http://www.monitorlongisland.com/> |
W2LIE.net<http://www.w2lie.net/>|
LongIslandFirePhotos.com <http://www.longislandfirephotos.com/>
 <http://www.w2lie.net/charity>

On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:31 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Phil wrote:
> >
> >Mark,
> >Thanks for the help.  When I tried to run the database dump, it looks like
> >it might be encrypted.  Does this look right to you?
> >Thanks
> >Phil.
> >
> >[----- start pickle file -----]
> ><----- start object 1 ----->
> >{   '0b9e53af60a8139e94986c07bcd3b092a0e5a26c': ('H', 10),
> >    '9dc482c780b8131cf518d6908b580e69dcdb36ee': ('H', 11),
> >    'a4820f58310f6f028ed5cdd2eaad0e407ac3dfa9': ('H', 9),
> >    'evictions': {   '0b9e53af60a8139e94986c07bcd3b092a0e5a26c':
> >1313195808.891789,
> >                     '9dc482c780b8131cf518d6908b580e69dcdb36ee':
> >1313281235.9221661,
> >                     'a4820f58310f6f028ed5cdd2eaad0e407ac3dfa9':
> >1313173460.4197421},
> >    'version': 2}
> >[----- end pickle file -----]
>
>
> My mistake. I meant to say dump request.pck, not pending.pck. The dump
> above of pending.pck shows 3 held messages keyed by the confirmation
> cookie that could be used to discard the message. The newest of these
> cookies expired at 1313281235.9221661 = Sat Aug 13 17:20:35 2011.
>
> The dump of request.pck shows the records that are waiting moderator
> action and should look as I described.
>
>
> >On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> >> First run
> >>
> >> /path/to/mailman/bin/dumpdb /path/to/mailman/lists/LISTNAME/pending.pck
>
> Should be request.pck, not pending.pck.
>
> >> This will report something like
> >>
> >> [----- start pickle file -----]
> >> <----- start object 1 ----->
> >> {   104: (   2,
> >>             (   1318366634.8118629,
> >>                 'user at example.com',
> >>                 'User Name',
> >>                 'tuufwuge',
> >>                 False,
> >>                 'en')),
> >>    'version': (0, 1)}
> >> [----- end pickle file -----]
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From sebastian at skayser.de  Mon Oct 17 11:31:22 2011
From: sebastian at skayser.de (Sebastian Kayser)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 11:31:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Include archive URL for the current email (in the
	footer)?
Message-ID: <20111017093122.GU26160@sebastiankayser.de>

Hi,

this question has been asked before [1]. Mailman can include various
list URLs in the footer [2], can it also include a link to the exact
archive URL for the current email?

Judging by the wishlist, this feature doesn't yet exist [3]. In absence
thereof, what do you guys do to determine the archive URL for an email?

Background: I often find myself referring people to our Mailman archives
when there were previous emails on the topic in question. My current
workflow looks like this:

1) Find email in $MUA (mutt in my case) where search is powerful
   and close to second nature.
2) Use google to find the relevant archive URL (site:$archive "$topic").

The second step feels disconnected and would be redundant if the mail
itself had a link to the archived message.

Sebastian

P.S.: Only found out about the wishlist after re-reading [1]. Would be a
good candidate to be included in the mailman-users intro text [4] (next
to FAQ and searchable archives).

[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg12190.html
[2] http://www.gnu.org/s/mailman/mailman-admin/node18.html
[3] http://www.gnu.org/s/mailman/todo.html (API between MM and archiver)
[4] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct 18 13:49:53 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 04:49:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Include archive URL for the current email (in
	thefooter)?
In-Reply-To: <20111017093122.GU26160@sebastiankayser.de>
Message-ID: <PC1952011101804495305266c730e43@Notebook-09>

Sebastian Kayser wrote:
>
>this question has been asked before [1]. Mailman can include various
>list URLs in the footer [2], can it also include a link to the exact
>archive URL for the current email?


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/RAKJ>.

Also, this ability will be available in Mailman 3.


[...]
>P.S.: Only found out about the wishlist after re-reading [1]. Would be a
>good candidate to be included in the mailman-users intro text [4] (next
>to FAQ and searchable archives).
>
>[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg12190.html
>[2] http://www.gnu.org/s/mailman/mailman-admin/node18.html
>[3] http://www.gnu.org/s/mailman/todo.html (API between MM and archiver)


The content of this page is old and not maintained. The date at the top
is the date the page was last formatted, not the date of the contents.

Check the wiki at http://wiki.list.org/ for more current info. Also,
the tracker at <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman> has feature
requests.

>[4] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From thomas at ifi.uio.no  Wed Oct 19 00:30:18 2011
From: thomas at ifi.uio.no (Thomas Gramstad)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 00:30:18 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command line moderation?
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1110190018360.366@rubin.ifi.uio.no>

Is there a way to:

1. Approve a message to a moderated mailman list from the
   command line, when logged into the machine on which mailman
   is installed?

2. Get a list of the subscribers (who password listname-request)
   from the command line, when logged into the machine on which
   mailman is installed? (i.e., what is the file name and path
   of the subscriber file?)

This functionality would be useful in the following scenario:

You have a time-sensitive posting.
You are the list owner. You have access to the machine with
Mailman. But:

a) The webserver is down, and the person who can restart it is
unavailable.

b) The webserver has been restarted, but they forgot something,
and all the mailman webpages are still inaccessible, and the
person(s) who can fix it is unavailable.

c) Mailman also doesn't respond to e-mail commands.

Thomas Gramstad

From servingsoon at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 10:25:45 2011
From: servingsoon at gmail.com (Serving Soon)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 04:25:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer as attachment in Outlook problem.
Message-ID: <CADqBL7TmLp3e1jVJp05ddpxn5CKZ3PXYJtbR3YJLq-yFLbCktA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I followed the old discussions regarding how Outlook shows footer as
attachment. I read the FAQ at
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030707

I wonder if someone has found a more recent solution then what is out there?
The solutions provided are years old and they pertain to older versions.

I know it is an Outlook problem not mailman's.   I hope there is a solution
like the workarounds of IE browsers quirks and bugs.

Any advise on how to get Outlook to show footers properly would be greatly
appreciated.

:)

Serving None

From ltymowski at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 21:19:22 2011
From: ltymowski at gmail.com (Luke Tymowski)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 13:19:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Force reply-to to both poster and list address
Message-ID: <CAASCSyag8q-7Eb3VNOtaU8oEBRO9X7fPZS1M7pBOuSDws7NPXA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

How do I configure Mailman to change the reply-to header so it sets
both the poster AND list address?
The web UI allows for either but not both.

(And I read FAQ saying I should have my fingers chopped off for
mucking about with the reply-to header.)

We run a support list, where only the support admins are members of
the list. When a user asks for help, and either a user or admin
responds, everyone gets a copy of the response. Often a user will
respond to the admin, not both the admin and support list.

thanks,

Luke

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 20 06:30:32 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:30:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command line moderation?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1110190018360.366@rubin.ifi.uio.no>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1110190018360.366@rubin.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <4E9FA3E8.9060207@msapiro.net>

On 10/18/2011 3:30 PM, Thomas Gramstad wrote:
> Is there a way to:
> 
> 1. Approve a message to a moderated mailman list from the
>    command line, when logged into the machine on which mailman
>    is installed?


This is a multi-step process with current tools.

First dounload the script from
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_requests> and put it in Mailman's
bin/ directory. Then run

/path/to/mailman/bin/list_requests --verbose --list=LISTNAME

This will produce a list of outstanding moderator requests with each
request followed by an integer which is its request ID.

To approve a held message, you then run

/path/to/mailman/bin/withlist -l LISTNAME

which will respond

Loading list LISTNAME (locked)
The variable `m' is the LISTNAME MailList instance
>>>

at the >>> prompts, type

>>> from Mailman.mm_cfg import APPROVE
>>> m.HandleRequest(nnn, APPROVE)

(where nnn is the request ID from the step above - this should not print
any error. You can repeat the above multiple times with other IDs if
you have more that one message to approve.)

>>> m.Save()

(This is important to save the state of the list.)

>>>       <- at this prompt type control-D to exit which should respond
Unlocking (but not saving) list: LISTNAME
Finalizing


> 2. Get a list of the subscribers (who password listname-request)
>    from the command line, when logged into the machine on which
>    mailman is installed? (i.e., what is the file name and path
>    of the subscriber file?)


The file is /path/to/mailman/lists/LISTNAME/config.pck, and you could
dump it with /path/to/mailman/bin/dumpdb, but that isn't what you want.
You want /path/to/mailman/bin/list_members. Give the command with the
--help option for more info. Also see http://wiki.list.org/x/z4A9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 20 06:53:28 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:53:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Force reply-to to both poster and list address
In-Reply-To: <CAASCSyag8q-7Eb3VNOtaU8oEBRO9X7fPZS1M7pBOuSDws7NPXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAASCSyag8q-7Eb3VNOtaU8oEBRO9X7fPZS1M7pBOuSDws7NPXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E9FA948.9090502@msapiro.net>

On 10/19/2011 12:19 PM, Luke Tymowski wrote:
> 
> How do I configure Mailman to change the reply-to header so it sets
> both the poster AND list address?
> The web UI allows for either but not both.
> 
> (And I read FAQ saying I should have my fingers chopped off for
> mucking about with the reply-to header.)
> 
> We run a support list, where only the support admins are members of
> the list. When a user asks for help, and either a user or admin
> responds, everyone gets a copy of the response. Often a user will
> respond to the admin, not both the admin and support list.


I don't understand. if only support admins are members of the support
list, how does some other user respond to the original user's request?

In any case, it would require some code modifications for Mailman to
force a Reply-To: header that contained both the poster's address and
the list address. Short of that, it would seem setting
reply_goes_to_list to This list would do what you want except in those
cases where a user is replying to another user, and how does that happen?

One possibility is for the poster to post with a Reply-To: containing
the poster's address. Then if first_strip_reply_to is No and
reply_goes_to_list is This list, the post will be delivered to the list
with a Reply-To: containing both the poster's original Reply-To: address
and the list address. but this is probably unenforceable.

But then the whole thing may be moot anyway, since only support admins
are members of the list, presumably, the user receives a response only
by virtue of being a direct addressee, and not from Mailman. I.e.
Mailman can't control what's in the Reply-To: of the message sent to the
user because Mailman didn't send it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From servingsoon at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 16:03:01 2011
From: servingsoon at gmail.com (Serving Soon)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:03:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer as attachment in Outlook problem.
In-Reply-To: <CADqBL7TmLp3e1jVJp05ddpxn5CKZ3PXYJtbR3YJLq-yFLbCktA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADqBL7TmLp3e1jVJp05ddpxn5CKZ3PXYJtbR3YJLq-yFLbCktA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADqBL7Rzrf2MvqkbZbwv=jfu5zizQfN9YuL1_=teKPqEmeARZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Do you guys know if Mailman 3 also has the problem of footer as attachment
in Outlook?

I am about to cry here.  :P

Serving




On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Serving Soon <servingsoon at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I followed the old discussions regarding how Outlook shows footer as
> attachment. I read the FAQ at
> http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030707
>
> I wonder if someone has found a more recent solution then what is out
> there? The solutions provided are years old and they pertain to older
> versions.
>
> I know it is an Outlook problem not mailman's.   I hope there is a solution
> like the workarounds of IE browsers quirks and bugs.
>
> Any advise on how to get Outlook to show footers properly would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> :)
>
> Serving None
>
>
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 20 21:13:52 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:13:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer as attachment in Outlook problem.
In-Reply-To: <CADqBL7Rzrf2MvqkbZbwv=jfu5zizQfN9YuL1_=teKPqEmeARZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201110201213520248124eb12c@Notebook-09>

Serving Soon wrote:

>Do you guys know if Mailman 3 also has the problem of footer as attachment
>in Outlook?


I don't think Mailman 3 will be any different in this respect. The
issue is as presented in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9>.

If the message is a simple text/plain message, a footer can just be
appended and a header prepended to the single text/plain body part.

If the message has a more complicated MIME structure, particularly if
it contains text/html parts, Mailman doesn't know how any MUA and/or
HTML rendering engine will display this message, and in fact, the same
MUA may display the same message differently depending on the user's
preferences. Therefore, the best Mailman can do with such messages is
to add headers and footers as separate MIME parts and hope that a
user's MUA does the right thing.

If your requirements are such that you can't restrict your list to
simple plain text and use content filtering to remove non text/plain
parts, headers and footers will be added as separate mime parts and
some MUAs will show those as "attachments" if at all.

If you can't live with that, you can try the MIMEDefang method
mentioned in the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anotheranne at fables.co.za  Fri Oct 21 09:07:39 2011
From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:07:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 4.12 "What about Verp" as applicable to
 sending to a relay host
In-Reply-To: <20111016202254.GB3420@charite.de>
References: <20111016221916.4f95d022@pandora>
	<20111016202254.GB3420@charite.de>
Message-ID: <20111021090739.7e2f9166@pandora>

Hello, Ralf, & Mark,.

We running now, thanks for the help.

I will send out on my large list over the w/e (splitting the membership
just in case) and will report how the throttle patch performed. But on
a small list we are up, up, & away.

I'll look at verp next, don't want to have to tweak anything else so if
it's a standalone item to tick on/off as it were, then I'll do that.

Lots of nice questions on your list, with nicer answers. no rtfm all
the time.

Anne


On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:22:54 +0200
Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de> wrote:

> * Anne Wainwright <anotheranne at fables.co.za>:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > Not that I am going to switch on Verp, but ...
> > 
> > I read this, and interesting sums there too. I note that Defaults.py
> > still carries SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500 despite good conclusions in the FAQ
> > based upon a statistical analysis of a large mailing list user base that
> > the sweet spot is likely between 2 and 5.
> 
> Well, it doesn't hurt. Let the MTA do the sorting and splitting.
>  
> > In my case where I am relaying to the isp's smtp server I indeed do
> > have all my posts to one domain and so I presume that a larger value
> > could be appropriate?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > Given that they limit me to 100 recipients per smtp session it would
> > seem that I should adjust this downwards to <100 (in mm_cfg.py) to avoid
> > breaking this rule.
> 
> Yep.
> 

From kia at solvo.ru  Thu Oct 20 16:09:05 2011
From: kia at solvo.ru (Ivan Kuznetsov)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 18:09:05 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incorrect timezone in mailman-generated messages
Message-ID: <4EA02B81.3080805@solvo.ru>

Hello!

After the local timezone rules change the mailman sends messages with 
incorrect timezone in Date: header.

Acording to the Russian Govnerment statement Russia is abolishing 
daylight saving time from this year. E.g. Moscow time (which daylight 
saving was GMT+4) will now has standard GMT+4. To adopt this we install 
new timezone calculation rules (tzdata-2011l). Now the mailman thinks 
that timezone is GMT+3. All the mailman-generated messages (moderation 
requests, errors, reminders and so on) looks like the time is +1h in 
future. E.g.

Return-Path: <mailman-bounces at domain.ru>
Received: from gate2.solvo.ru (gate2-vlan10.solvo.ru [172.16.80.4])
	 by hippo.solvo.ru (Cyrus v2.2.12-Invoca-RPM-2.2.12-8.1.RHEL4) with LMTPA;
	 Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:54:42 +0400
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
Received: from gate2.solvo.ru (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
	by gate2.solvo.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ADCC52E802D
	for <listmaster at solvo.ru>; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:54:42 +0400 (MSK)
Subject: =?koi8-r?b?7sXEz9PUwdfMxc7Oz8UgydrXxd3FzsnFIM/CIM/bycLLxQ==?=
From: mailman-bounces at solvo.ru
To: all-owner at solvo.ru
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0258393610=="
Message-ID: <mailman.20.1319111680.3169.all at solvo.ru>
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:54:40 +0300
Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: all at solvo.ru
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14
List-Id: =?koi8-r?b?6c7Gz9LNwcPJ0SDEzNEg19PFyCDTz9TS1cTOycvP1yDz7+z37w==?=
	<all.solvo.ru>
X-List-Administrivia: yes
Errors-To: mailman-bounces at solvo.ru
Sender: mailman-bounces at solvo.ru

Local time in mailman logs are still correct:

/var/log/mailman/smtp:
Oct 20 15:54:42 2011 (3173) <mailman.20.1319111680.3169.all at solvo.ru> 
smtp to all for 1 recips, completed in 0.102 seconds

/var/log/mailman/bounce:
Oct 20 15:54:40 2011 (3169) all: bounce message w/no discernable 
addresses: <35292842.20111020185427 at 87.subnet125-163-181.speedy.telkom.net.
Oct 20 15:54:40 2011 (3169) all: forwarding unrecognized, message-id: 
<35292842.20111020185427 at 87.subnet125-163-181.speedy.telkom.net.id>

We are using mailman for years without such a problem before. All other 
software run at this host now have the correct understanding the local 
time as MSK standard time = GMT+4

[root at gate2 mailman]# date '+%Z %::z'
MSK +04:00:00

I found the similar mailman bug #266314 
(https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/266314) but it was years ago 
and was fixed at version 2.1.7.

Now we run mailman 2.1.14 with Python 2.4.3 under Oracle Enterprise 
Linux 5 (a clone of RHEL5)

--
Regards, Ivan Kuznetsov
SOLVO ltd
St.Petersburg, Russia

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Oct 21 16:49:42 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 07:49:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incorrect timezone in mailman-generated messages
In-Reply-To: <4EA02B81.3080805@solvo.ru>
References: <4EA02B81.3080805@solvo.ru>
Message-ID: <4EA18686.1010907@msapiro.net>

On 10/20/2011 7:09 AM, Ivan Kuznetsov wrote:
> 
> After the local timezone rules change the mailman sends messages with
> incorrect timezone in Date: header.
[...]
> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:54:40 +0300
[...]
> We are using mailman for years without such a problem before. All other
> software run at this host now have the correct understanding the local
> time as MSK standard time = GMT+4
> 
> [root at gate2 mailman]# date '+%Z %::z'
> MSK +04:00:00


This is the part that I find strange. Mailman uses Python's
email.Utils.formatdate(localtime=1) function to get the date/time string
for the Date header. This in turn uses Python's time module to get the
actual time and timezone values and that in turn uses C library
functions to get them from the underlying OS. See
<http://docs.python.org/library/time.html>.

Try seeing in an interactive Python session what things like
email.Utils.formatdate(localtime=1), time.localtime(), time.daylight and
time.altzone return. If they are not returning what you expect, this is
a Python issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Oct 21 16:43:10 2011
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:43:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incorrect timezone in mailman-generated messages
In-Reply-To: <4EA02B81.3080805@solvo.ru>
References: <4EA02B81.3080805@solvo.ru>
Message-ID: <82084652-CEDA-4C90-92C0-994F4CF4E44D@shub-internet.org>

On Oct 20, 2011, at 9:09 AM, Ivan Kuznetsov wrote:

> After the local timezone rules change the mailman sends messages with incorrect timezone in Date: header.

Mailman itself knows nothing about timezones.  Anything to do with timezones being incorrect is almost certainly an Operating System issue, although it could be a library problem.

> Received: from gate2.solvo.ru (gate2-vlan10.solvo.ru [172.16.80.4])
> 	 by hippo.solvo.ru (Cyrus v2.2.12-Invoca-RPM-2.2.12-8.1.RHEL4) with LMTPA;
> 	 Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:54:42 +0400
> X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
> Received: from gate2.solvo.ru (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
> 	by gate2.solvo.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ADCC52E802D
> 	for <listmaster at solvo.ru>; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:54:42 +0400 (MSK)

These two headers were put on the message by the MTAs, and note that time the time is 15:54 with a timezone offset of +0400.

> Subject: =?koi8-r?b?7sXEz9PUwdfMxc7Oz8UgydrXxd3FzsnFIM/CIM/bycLLxQ==?=
> From: mailman-bounces at solvo.ru
> To: all-owner at solvo.ru
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0258393610=="
> Message-ID: <mailman.20.1319111680.3169.all at solvo.ru>
> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:54:40 +0300

This date header may have been put on by the local MTA on this machine, or it may have been put on by a Python library, but I don't think it was put on by Mailman itself.  Note that the time is still 15:54, but the timezone is wrong.

> Local time in mailman logs are still correct:
> 
> /var/log/mailman/smtp:
> Oct 20 15:54:42 2011 (3173) <mailman.20.1319111680.3169.all at solvo.ru> smtp to all for 1 recips, completed in 0.102 seconds
> 
> /var/log/mailman/bounce:
> Oct 20 15:54:40 2011 (3169) all: bounce message w/no discernable addresses: <35292842.20111020185427 at 87.subnet125-163-181.speedy.telkom.net.
> Oct 20 15:54:40 2011 (3169) all: forwarding unrecognized, message-id: <35292842.20111020185427 at 87.subnet125-163-181.speedy.telkom.net.id>

These are all references to 15:54, but there is no mention of timezone, so it's impossible to know if they are in reference to +0300 or +0400.

> We are using mailman for years without such a problem before. All other software run at this host now have the correct understanding the local time as MSK standard time = GMT+4
> 
> [root at gate2 mailman]# date '+%Z %::z'
> MSK +04:00:00

Okay, so the OS has been updated with an appropriate time zone definition.  That's good to know.

> I found the similar mailman bug #266314 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/266314) but it was years ago and was fixed at version 2.1.7.
> 
> Now we run mailman 2.1.14 with Python 2.4.3 under Oracle Enterprise Linux 5 (a clone of RHEL5)

Sometimes, problems like this are as simple as a program reading the timezone definition on startup, and then never reading it again.  Have you tried stopping and restarting Mailman, in order to get it (and the various Python libraries we use) to read the updated timezone definition?

--
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Fri Oct 21 17:04:43 2011
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 17:04:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incorrect timezone in mailman-generated messages
In-Reply-To: <82084652-CEDA-4C90-92C0-994F4CF4E44D@shub-internet.org>
References: <4EA02B81.3080805@solvo.ru>
	<82084652-CEDA-4C90-92C0-994F4CF4E44D@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <20111021150443.GT18005@charite.de>

* Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>:
> On Oct 20, 2011, at 9:09 AM, Ivan Kuznetsov wrote:
> 
> > After the local timezone rules change the mailman sends messages with incorrect timezone in Date: header.
> 
> Mailman itself knows nothing about timezones.  Anything to do with timezones being incorrect is almost certainly an Operating System issue, although it could be a library problem.
> 
> > Received: from gate2.solvo.ru (gate2-vlan10.solvo.ru [172.16.80.4])
> > 	 by hippo.solvo.ru (Cyrus v2.2.12-Invoca-RPM-2.2.12-8.1.RHEL4) with LMTPA;
> > 	 Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:54:42 +0400
> > X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
> > Received: from gate2.solvo.ru (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
> > 	by gate2.solvo.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ADCC52E802D
> > 	for <listmaster at solvo.ru>; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:54:42 +0400 (MSK)
> 
> These two headers were put on the message by the MTAs, and note that time the time is 15:54 with a timezone offset of +0400.
> 
> > Subject: =?koi8-r?b?7sXEz9PUwdfMxc7Oz8UgydrXxd3FzsnFIM/CIM/bycLLxQ==?=
> > From: mailman-bounces at solvo.ru
> > To: all-owner at solvo.ru
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0258393610=="
> > Message-ID: <mailman.20.1319111680.3169.all at solvo.ru>
> > Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:54:40 +0300
> 
> This date header may have been put on by the local MTA on this machine, or it may have been put on by a Python library, but I don't think it was put on by Mailman itself.  Note that the time is still 15:54, but the timezone is wrong.

Since it's "From: mailman-bounces at solvo.ru" "To: all-owner at solvo.ru"
isn't that a mailman generated approval mail?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From barry at list.org  Fri Oct 21 17:23:28 2011
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:23:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer as attachment in Outlook problem.
In-Reply-To: <PC195201110201213520248124eb12c@Notebook-09>
References: <CADqBL7Rzrf2MvqkbZbwv=jfu5zizQfN9YuL1_=teKPqEmeARZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201110201213520248124eb12c@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <20111021112328.3fb3e507@limelight.wooz.org>

On Oct 20, 2011, at 12:13 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>I don't think Mailman 3 will be any different in this respect. The
>issue is as presented in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9>.

Mailman 3 will work exactly the same way, for all the reasons Mark described.
AFAICT, there's really no better alternative.

-Barry
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From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Oct 21 17:36:34 2011
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:36:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incorrect timezone in mailman-generated messages
In-Reply-To: <20111021150443.GT18005@charite.de>
References: <4EA02B81.3080805@solvo.ru>
	<82084652-CEDA-4C90-92C0-994F4CF4E44D@shub-internet.org>
	<20111021150443.GT18005@charite.de>
Message-ID: <BE60673E-1D14-43CF-85F7-48DE0198EE93@shub-internet.org>

On Oct 21, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

>> This date header may have been put on by the local MTA on this machine, or it may have been put on by a Python library, but I don't think it was put on by Mailman itself.  Note that the time is still 15:54, but the timezone is wrong.
> 
> Since it's "From: mailman-bounces at solvo.ru" "To: all-owner at solvo.ru"
> isn't that a mailman generated approval mail?

The message may have been generated by Mailman, but I am not 100% certain that Mailman always puts on whatever headers are required for a message, such as the Date header -- many MTAs will add headers like this for people/programs who generate messages to be sent but don't include them.

Moreover, even if that header were put on before the message is handed to the MTA, I don't know that Mailman itself would be putting that header on -- I suspect that Mailman would use a Python library to do that, as opposed to doing it internally.

--
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Fri Oct 21 19:37:56 2011
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 19:37:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incorrect timezone in mailman-generated messages
In-Reply-To: <BE60673E-1D14-43CF-85F7-48DE0198EE93@shub-internet.org>
References: <4EA02B81.3080805@solvo.ru>
	<82084652-CEDA-4C90-92C0-994F4CF4E44D@shub-internet.org>
	<20111021150443.GT18005@charite.de>
	<BE60673E-1D14-43CF-85F7-48DE0198EE93@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <20111021173755.GA3953@charite.de>

* Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>:
> On Oct 21, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> 
> >> This date header may have been put on by the local MTA on this machine, or it may have been put on by a Python library, but I don't think it was put on by Mailman itself.  Note that the time is still 15:54, but the timezone is wrong.
> > 
> > Since it's "From: mailman-bounces at solvo.ru" "To: all-owner at solvo.ru"
> > isn't that a mailman generated approval mail?
> 
> The message may have been generated by Mailman, but I am not 100%
> certain that Mailman always puts on whatever headers are required for a
> message, such as the Date header -- many MTAs will add headers like
> this for people/programs who generate messages to be sent but don't
> include them.

Yes, indeed. If postfix is involved, copies of the TZ info IN THE
CHROOT may be old! Thus issue a "postfix check" command.

> Moreover, even if that header were put on before the message is handed
> to the MTA, I don't know that Mailman itself would be putting that
> header on -- I suspect that Mailman would use a Python library to do
> that, as opposed to doing it internally.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Oct 21 21:11:03 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 12:11:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incorrect timezone in mailman-generated messages
In-Reply-To: <BE60673E-1D14-43CF-85F7-48DE0198EE93@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201110211211030421d7bd5da8@Notebook-09>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>Moreover, even if that header were put on before the message is handed to the MTA, I don't know that Mailman itself would be putting that header on -- I suspect that Mailman would use a Python library to do that, as opposed to doing it internally.


In the case of this particular message, Mailman creates the Date:
header using the Python library functions and data indicated in my
reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-October/072389.html>.

If these Python routines, particularly
email.Utils.formatdate(localtime=1), are returning the expected
results, this is almost certainly, as Brad suggested previously, a
case of needing to restart Mailman to refresh internally stored data.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Sat Oct 22 06:21:09 2011
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 23:21:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests and HTML-enhanced email
Message-ID: <1319257269.1963.28.camel@ubuntu>

I host a list for about 700 autoharp musical enthusiasts on Mailman
2.1.12.  The subscribers are by and large somewhat elderly and non
techie, and to most of them an explanation of the difference between
HTML-enhanced email and plain text email would be unintelligible
geek-speak.  I recently received the following email from one of the
subscribers:

> "Scrubbed" messages as they appear in my cyberpluckers DIGESTS:
> This type of problem is perhaps a bit over 6 months old, and evidently
> is caused by the manner in which some people have tried to attach
> their message to their cyberplucker posting.
> 
> How can this problem be resolved?    THANKS ... Drew Smith
> *******************************************************
> 
> Message: 25
> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 08:42:29 -0700
> From: "foo bar" <.......>
> To: Cyberpluckers at autoharp.org
> Subject: Re: [CP] Intro
> Message-ID: <a0ffed34-525e-40a5-88c6-4b78dbef2df8 at blur>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://www.autoharp.org/mailman/blah/blah/..../attachment.html
>
> ... <snip> ... other examples

I took a look at the list archive and indeed the email appears in the
archives also with only a link to the attachment, which is the
HTML-enhanced message, visible as HTML code.  There's no plain text
version in the archive.

I explained to the subscriber, and to the list admins, that this (and
similar) posts were probably HTML-only posts, and that, absent a plain
text rendering in a multipart email, the list server had no way to
generate a plain text version, and that including multiple HTML-enhanced
emails in a digest was problematic and not going to work very well, if
at all.  The list admins are aware that plain text is the appropriate
format for posting to a mailing list, but subscribers come and go from
this list, and as I said, many don't understand such things, and it
seems that there are a number of mail programs out there which will
generate an HTML-enhanced email without an accompanying MIME text/plain
version.

The list is configured with mime_is_default_digest set to MIME, which I
assume sends digests with each post as a separate attachment (I've never
subscribed to the digest for this list, so I don't really know).  I had
assumed that this might address this problem, but apparently not.

One of two things needs to happen.  Either the list server should refuse
and bounce posts with no MIME text/plain part, or some more intelligent
configuration of Mailman needs to be available so that posts within a
digest will render properly under these circumstances.  Maybe a more
recent version of Mailman can do this, I don't know.  Any suggestions
would be appreciated.

I rather dislike HTML-enhanced email (to put it gently).  There's no
fixed standard for it, and what renders one way in one mail reader
renders some other way in another mail reader, and it confuses the hell
out of list servers.  But people will use it, increasingly it seems, and
insist on doing so, so somehow this kind of problem needs to be dealt
with.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Real programmers use butterflies"
FMP Computer Services |
512-259-1190          |     - xkcd
http://www.fmp.com    |



From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Oct 22 08:26:58 2011
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 01:26:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests and HTML-enhanced email
In-Reply-To: <1319257269.1963.28.camel@ubuntu>
References: <1319257269.1963.28.camel@ubuntu>
Message-ID: <F45BEDDB-46D2-45DF-A363-61F8596425A9@shub-internet.org>

On Oct 21, 2011, at 11:21 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:

> The list is configured with mime_is_default_digest set to MIME, which I
> assume sends digests with each post as a separate attachment (I've never
> subscribed to the digest for this list, so I don't really know).  I had
> assumed that this might address this problem, but apparently not.

It's not done as a separate attachment, it's done as separate MIME bodyparts, which some MUAs might render as "an attachment" -- particularly, the more brain-dead ones.

> One of two things needs to happen.  Either the list server should refuse
> and bounce posts with no MIME text/plain part, or some more intelligent
> configuration of Mailman needs to be available so that posts within a
> digest will render properly under these circumstances.  Maybe a more
> recent version of Mailman can do this, I don't know.  Any suggestions
> would be appreciated.

Mailman can flatten HTML to plain text on ingest, and when the MIME format digest is generated, that should look mostly kinda semi-sorta correct -- at least, on the majority of less brain-dead MUAs.  For MUAs that don't generate text that can be flattened, that should result in what would appear to Mailman to be an "empty" message, which should be silently dropped.  Some users might wonder what is happening to their messages, if they're submitting with a really brain-dead MUA.

Of course, there is still the issue of what to do with any real attachments that might have been included.  Mailman can silently strip those, or it can scrub them and put them in the archives, replacing the actual attachment content with a link to the scrubbed attachment in the archives.

All of this can be done on the version of Mailman that you have today, but more recent versions of Mailman might have other advantages that you might also appreciate.

> I rather dislike HTML-enhanced email (to put it gently).  There's no
> fixed standard for it, and what renders one way in one mail reader
> renders some other way in another mail reader, and it confuses the hell
> out of list servers.  But people will use it, increasingly it seems, and
> insist on doing so, so somehow this kind of problem needs to be dealt
> with.

I think that the tools are already there for the bulk of list admins to deal with the bulk of problems.

The only outstanding major issue that I know of that we can't fix right now is the handling of appending footers to MIME-formatted messages which can be rendered by some brain-dead MUAs as separate "attachments".  So far, the consensus has been that we won't kowtow to those brain-dead MUAs, and if the users in question can't deal with these separate "attachments", then the list admins are going to have to forgo putting footers on messages as they are being passed through the system.

--
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Oct 22 10:46:43 2011
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 17:46:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Digests and HTML-enhanced email
In-Reply-To: <1319257269.1963.28.camel@ubuntu>
References: <1319257269.1963.28.camel@ubuntu>
Message-ID: <87ty71fm6k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Lindsay Haisley writes:

 > One of two things needs to happen.  Either the list server should refuse
 > and bounce posts with no MIME text/plain part,

Refuse, maybe, but bouncing is a problem (spam-by-backscatter).  But
refusing such mail is only going to confuse the kind of subscriber who
is as "non-techie" as the ones you describe.

You can already do refuse such mail, I believe, but the configuration
is probably rather arcane.

 > or some more intelligent configuration of Mailman needs to be
 > available so that posts within a digest will render properly under
 > these circumstances.

Unfortunately, that's an awful lot of intelligence.

 > Maybe a more recent version of Mailman can do this, I don't know.
 > Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Disable digests.  If that's unacceptable, the list in question might
be happier as a web forum, much as I hate to say it.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Oct 22 16:03:33 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 07:03:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests and HTML-enhanced email
In-Reply-To: <1319257269.1963.28.camel@ubuntu>
Message-ID: <PC1952011102207033301235d1d7c9c@Notebook-09>

Lindsay Haisley wrote:
[...]
>> 
>> Message: 25
>> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 08:42:29 -0700
>> From: "foo bar" <.......>
>> To: Cyberpluckers at autoharp.org
>> Subject: Re: [CP] Intro
>> Message-ID: <a0ffed34-525e-40a5-88c6-4b78dbef2df8 at blur>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> http://www.autoharp.org/mailman/blah/blah/..../attachment.html
>>
>> ... <snip> ... other examples
>
>I took a look at the list archive and indeed the email appears in the
>archives also with only a link to the attachment, which is the
>HTML-enhanced message, visible as HTML code.  There's no plain text
>version in the archive.


Stephen and Brad have already replied, and I'm not going to repeat what
they said. I'm only going to reply to a few specific technical issues.

The above message excerpt is from a plain format digest. This CAN be
avoided in the digest by subscribing to the MIME digest, but it cannot
be avoided in the archive. All non-plain text parts of a message will
generally be scrubbed for the archive. There is some control over how
scrubbed HTML is rendered in the archive. See the documentation for
ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER in Defaults.py.


>I explained to the subscriber, and to the list admins, that this (and
>similar) posts were probably HTML-only posts, and that, absent a plain
>text rendering in a multipart email, the list server had no way to
>generate a plain text version, and that including multiple HTML-enhanced
>emails in a digest was problematic and not going to work very well, if
>at all.  The list admins are aware that plain text is the appropriate
>format for posting to a mailing list, but subscribers come and go from
>this list, and as I said, many don't understand such things, and it
>seems that there are a number of mail programs out there which will
>generate an HTML-enhanced email without an accompanying MIME text/plain
>version.


Content filtering can convert HTML to plain text using lynx, elinks or
a similar program.


>The list is configured with mime_is_default_digest set to MIME, which I
>assume sends digests with each post as a separate attachment (I've never
>subscribed to the digest for this list, so I don't really know).  I had
>assumed that this might address this problem, but apparently not.


It only sets the default for new subscribers. The subscriber above is
receiving plain digests.


>One of two things needs to happen.  Either the list server should refuse
>and bounce posts with no MIME text/plain part, or some more intelligent
>configuration of Mailman needs to be available so that posts within a
>digest will render properly under these circumstances.  Maybe a more
>recent version of Mailman can do this, I don't know.  Any suggestions
>would be appreciated.


Content filtering can remove HTML or convert it to plain text and
Discard, Reject (problematic as Stephen notes) or Forward to Owner
posts which are empty after filtering.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anotheranne at fables.co.za  Sat Oct 22 17:13:56 2011
From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 17:13:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests and HTML-enhanced email
In-Reply-To: <1319257269.1963.28.camel@ubuntu>
References: <1319257269.1963.28.camel@ubuntu>
Message-ID: <20111022171356.041b6d30@pandora>

Dear Lindsay,

perhaps I can make an input to this thread since I was about to
post something similar. If my comments are incorrect, please advise
since I have no desire to mislead any one.

We, too, have a load of old dinosaurs on one list who always manage to
post to wrong addresses and whose posts are of often rejected.
Getting the plain-text gospel across is hard.

Outside of digests, of which I know nothing, I see two approaches.
One aimed at getting plain text conformity from member input and the
other at getting plain text readability from Mailman output.

The first is reflected in the users FAQ 3.10 "How to enforce a
text-plain policy". The answer being "with difficulty" because this
option probably (as I read it) ensures that any message with
non-plain-text content is completely, utterly, and totally, rejected,
even if plain-text is present, rejecting all non-conformist messages and
requiring you to drill your recipients into plain-text submission.

The second is Content Filtering. I understand that this is to remove
objectionable content types, and steamroller the rest into conformity as
plain-text. It appears not to be 'on' by default.

With a number of lists running I had played about with these items, but
we have a residual core of trouble. I have just (read last night)
reverted to switching Content Filtering 'on' with the default settings
and will monitor results closely. The lists are now set identically
in this regard. Text-plain enforcement policies are not in place at
present.

Anne


On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 23:21:09 -0500
Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-mailman at fmp.com> wrote:

> I host a list for about 700 autoharp musical enthusiasts on Mailman
> 2.1.12.  The subscribers are by and large somewhat elderly and non
> techie, and to most of them an explanation of the difference between
> HTML-enhanced email and plain text email would be unintelligible
> geek-speak.  I recently received the following email from one of the
> subscribers:
> 
> > "Scrubbed" messages as they appear in my cyberpluckers DIGESTS:
> > This type of problem is perhaps a bit over 6 months old, and evidently
> > is caused by the manner in which some people have tried to attach
> > their message to their cyberplucker posting.
> > 
> > How can this problem be resolved?    THANKS ... Drew Smith
> > *******************************************************
> > 
> > Message: 25
> > Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 08:42:29 -0700
> > From: "foo bar" <.......>
> > To: Cyberpluckers at autoharp.org
> > Subject: Re: [CP] Intro
> > Message-ID: <a0ffed34-525e-40a5-88c6-4b78dbef2df8 at blur>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > 
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> > http://www.autoharp.org/mailman/blah/blah/..../attachment.html
> >
> > ... <snip> ... other examples
> 
> I took a look at the list archive and indeed the email appears in the
> archives also with only a link to the attachment, which is the
> HTML-enhanced message, visible as HTML code.  There's no plain text
> version in the archive.
> 
> I explained to the subscriber, and to the list admins, that this (and
> similar) posts were probably HTML-only posts, and that, absent a plain
> text rendering in a multipart email, the list server had no way to
> generate a plain text version, and that including multiple HTML-enhanced
> emails in a digest was problematic and not going to work very well, if
> at all.  The list admins are aware that plain text is the appropriate
> format for posting to a mailing list, but subscribers come and go from
> this list, and as I said, many don't understand such things, and it
> seems that there are a number of mail programs out there which will
> generate an HTML-enhanced email without an accompanying MIME text/plain
> version.
> 
> The list is configured with mime_is_default_digest set to MIME, which I
> assume sends digests with each post as a separate attachment (I've never
> subscribed to the digest for this list, so I don't really know).  I had
> assumed that this might address this problem, but apparently not.
> 
> One of two things needs to happen.  Either the list server should refuse
> and bounce posts with no MIME text/plain part, or some more intelligent
> configuration of Mailman needs to be available so that posts within a
> digest will render properly under these circumstances.  Maybe a more
> recent version of Mailman can do this, I don't know.  Any suggestions
> would be appreciated.
> 
> I rather dislike HTML-enhanced email (to put it gently).  There's no
> fixed standard for it, and what renders one way in one mail reader
> renders some other way in another mail reader, and it confuses the hell
> out of list servers.  But people will use it, increasingly it seems, and
> insist on doing so, so somehow this kind of problem needs to be dealt
> with.
> 

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Oct 22 18:24:18 2011
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 01:24:18 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests and HTML-enhanced email
In-Reply-To: <20111022171356.041b6d30@pandora>
References: <1319257269.1963.28.camel@ubuntu> <20111022171356.041b6d30@pandora>
Message-ID: <87obx9f0zx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Anne Wainwright writes:

 > The first is reflected in the users FAQ 3.10 "How to enforce a
 > text-plain policy". The answer being "with difficulty" because this
 > option probably (as I read it) ensures that any message with
 > non-plain-text content is completely, utterly, and totally, rejected,
 > even if plain-text is present,

That's true for Mailman 2.0, which I hope nobody who doesn't have a
very good idea of what they're doing is using anymore.

For Mailman 2.1, almost all of the time the presence of a text/plain
part means the message will get through in tolerable shape given the
recommended settings.  And assuming you have one of the non-GUI web
browsers (usually lynx) available to generate text/plain from
text/html, most of the time you should get something usable from
text/html, but that is only as good as the conversion tool is.

 > The second is Content Filtering. I understand that this is to remove
 > objectionable content types, and steamroller the rest into conformity as
 > plain-text. It appears not to be 'on' by default.

AFAIK it actually only knows how to "steamroller" text/html, although
a modest amount of programming (== "Somebody on this list can post a
patch with a few minutes thought") should allow pretty much any text/*
type to be converted.  Other non-objectable content types will be
passed through unmolested, on the assumption that the list admin
believe the MUAs in use can handle them.


From kia at solvo.ru  Mon Oct 24 10:32:46 2011
From: kia at solvo.ru (Ivan Kuznetsov)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:32:46 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incorrect timezone in mailman-generated messages
In-Reply-To: <82084652-CEDA-4C90-92C0-994F4CF4E44D@shub-internet.org>
References: <4EA02B81.3080805@solvo.ru>
	<82084652-CEDA-4C90-92C0-994F4CF4E44D@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <4EA522AE.2030608@solvo.ru>

Hello!

The Date: header is definitly put by Mailman process (Python library) 
not by MTA. The MTA (postfix 2.7.1) uses system tzdata and works correctly.

The Mailman was restarted just after the system tzdata update. And more, 
we have a power blackout last week so all the company servers were 
rebooted. The problem still exists

Setting the TZ enviroment variable as 'TZ=MSK-4' in Mailman startup 
script solves the problem. So we have a workaround now and have a time 
for more deep investigations :)

Python interactive tests:

Python 2.4.3 (#1, Jul  2 2009, 15:50:05)
[GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-44)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import time;
>>> import email.Utils;
>>> print (time.localtime());
(2011, 10, 24, 12, 8, 2, 0, 297, 0)
>>> print (time.altzone);
-14400
>>> print (time.daylight);
1
>>> print (email.Utils.formatdate(localtime=1));
Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:08:33 +0300

As I can understand (I'm not a Python guru) the time.localtime() returns 
correct data and shows that DST is not active (tm_isdst=0). time.altzone 
is correct too (UTC-4). But time.daylight is incorrectly shows that DST 
is active. So the problem is a Python issue, you are right.

I will try to update the Python package and see the result

--
Regards, Ivan Kuznetsov
SOLVO ltd
St.Petersburg, Russia

From kia at solvo.ru  Mon Oct 24 11:07:11 2011
From: kia at solvo.ru (Ivan Kuznetsov)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:07:11 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incorrect timezone in mailman-generated messages
In-Reply-To: <4EA522AE.2030608@solvo.ru>
References: <4EA02B81.3080805@solvo.ru>
	<82084652-CEDA-4C90-92C0-994F4CF4E44D@shub-internet.org>
	<4EA522AE.2030608@solvo.ru>
Message-ID: <4EA52ABF.4010004@solvo.ru>

Hello!

24.10.2011 12:32, Ivan Kuznetsov wrote:
> I will try to update the Python package and see the result

Updated Python (package python26-2.6.5-6.el5.i386.rpm) shows the same 
incorrect results on interactive tests:

[kia at pine ~]$ python26
Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Feb 28 2011, 21:55:56)
[GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-50)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import time;
>>> import email.Utils;
>>> print (time.localtime());
time.struct_time(tm_year=2011, tm_mon=10, tm_mday=24, tm_hour=13, 
tm_min=1, tm_sec=45, tm_wday=0, tm_yday=297, tm_isdst=0)
>>> print (time.altzone);
-14400
>>> print (time.daylight);
1
>>> print (email.Utils.formatdate(localtime=1));
Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:02:02 +0300
>>>


-- 
? ?????????, ?.?.????????
????????? ????????????? "?????"
???. +7 812 6060555
??????? +7 921 7407261
ICQ 346624981
http://www.solvo.ru

From servingsoon at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 11:59:08 2011
From: servingsoon at gmail.com (Serving Soon)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 05:59:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer as attachment in Outlook problem.
In-Reply-To: <20111021112328.3fb3e507@limelight.wooz.org>
References: <CADqBL7Rzrf2MvqkbZbwv=jfu5zizQfN9YuL1_=teKPqEmeARZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201110201213520248124eb12c@Notebook-09>
	<20111021112328.3fb3e507@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <CADqBL7TykUDG_e6q_N1h6rnhb56tyAg43o4-FgdgZOMBXsdtiw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Barry Warsaw <barry at list.org> wrote:

> On Oct 20, 2011, at 12:13 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> >I don't think Mailman 3 will be any different in this respect. The
> >issue is as presented in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9>.
>
> Mailman 3 will work exactly the same way, for all the reasons Mark
> described.
> AFAICT, there's really no better alternative.
>
> -Barry
>
>

Thank you all for your replies.

I followed the discussion on why this happening and I understand the logic.
But since Outlook is so spread among corporate users worldwide, shouldn't
mailman have its own workaround?   Just like the web coders did for IE*
shortcomings all these years.


I got mimedefang to work but it was not easy at all.   There is hardly any
cheat sheets out there for such combination.

OS: Centos 5.6
Postfix: 2.7.3 I had to upgrade from distribution's 2.3

main.cf

smtpd_milters = unix:/var/spool/MIMEDefang/mimedefang.sock
milter_default_action = accept
milter_protocol = 3

mimedefang: 2.72

I had to run as usr postfix because of permission problems :

postfix/smtpd[9768]: warning: connect to Milter service
unix:/var/spool/MIMEDefang/mimedefang.sock: Permission denied

change user: in /etc/sysconfig/mimedefang

to be :

# Run the multiplexor and filters as this user, not root.  RECOMMENDED
MX_USER=postfix


I had to edit   /etc/init.d/mimedefang

 # Since /var/spool/MIMEDefang might be tmpfs, ensure that it is properly
    # initialized.
    chown postfix:postfix /var/spool/MIMEDefang
    restorecon -R /var/spool/MIMEDefang >/dev/null 2>&1
    if [ ! -d /var/spool/MIMEDefang/.razor ]; then
        mkdir /var/spool/MIMEDefang/.razor
        chown postfix:postfix /var/spool/MIMEDefang/.razor
        chmod 0750 /var/spool/MIMEDefang/.razor
    fi
    if [ ! -L /var/spool/MIMEDefang/.razor/razor-agent.log ]; then
        # The Razor2 log is mostly useless, and we can't change its
location.
        # In order to prevent it from filling up the spool, we just link it
to
        # /dev/null.
        ln -sf /dev/null /var/spool/MIMEDefang/.razor/razor-agent.log
        chown -h postfix:postfix
/var/spool/MIMEDefang/.razor/razor-agent.log
    fi

This only had to be made in 2.72  it was not needed in 2.70

Mailman 2.1.9
The mailman functionality needed I did as per :

http://stuff.mit.edu/~jik/software/mailman_mimedefang/mailman_mimedefang_fix_footer.pl.txt

there might little things here and there but I am still dazed. :D


By the way, the footer now is not an attachment but the unsubscribe link in
the footer is not clickable.

I wonder if there is a solution for the link?


Best Regards,

Serving None

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Oct 24 13:42:11 2011
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 20:42:11 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer as attachment in Outlook problem.
In-Reply-To: <CADqBL7TykUDG_e6q_N1h6rnhb56tyAg43o4-FgdgZOMBXsdtiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADqBL7Rzrf2MvqkbZbwv=jfu5zizQfN9YuL1_=teKPqEmeARZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201110201213520248124eb12c@Notebook-09>
	<20111021112328.3fb3e507@limelight.wooz.org>
	<CADqBL7TykUDG_e6q_N1h6rnhb56tyAg43o4-FgdgZOMBXsdtiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8739ei7h0s.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Serving Soon writes:

 > I followed the discussion on why this happening and I understand
 > the logic.  But since Outlook is so spread among corporate users
 > worldwide, shouldn't mailman have its own workaround?

If there were a single workaround, that might make sense.  But there's
a big difference between what the web coders did and what you're
suggesting here.  The web coders only needed to work around IE one bug
at a time, because they had control of the rest of the page and the
CSS.  Mailman does not; there is no guarantee that there is any end at
all to this task.

Personally, I'd rather that the people who know anything about this
stuff work on Mailman 3 rather than throw code and effort into making
Outlook users happy (I have to admit, nobody who uses my lists would
dare own up to using Outlook even if they did use it :-).

 > Just like the web coders did for IE* shortcomings all these years.

The web coders made a lot of money by doing a better job than the next
site of supporting IE.  Show us some money (or other equivalent value),
and somebody might do the same in Mailman for Outlook.  But at the
moment, nobody is getting rich from Mailman.


From carlos.palomino at me.com  Mon Oct 24 12:31:56 2011
From: carlos.palomino at me.com (Carlos Palomino)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 06:31:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation on GoDaddy servers?
Message-ID: <6381D96B-8160-4BA8-B901-0D70A185435B@me.com>

Hello all,

I'm new here, and new to mailman.  Please forgive the basic question.

I'm mainly curious if you believe it would be possible to install mailman on a GoDaddy deluxe account?
I've asked their support, but received a rather vague reply (shocker).

I learned python is supported; however, they weren't familiar with mailman and thus, couldn't answer any further queries.

So, any ideas on what may or may not work as far as installing on a shared web host?


Thank you for any feedback.


C.

From whocarez at web.de  Mon Oct 24 01:55:26 2011
From: whocarez at web.de (Andreas Stein)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 02:55:26 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Debian with Lighttpd ans Postfix
Message-ID: <4EA4A96E.7050502@web.de>

Hello,

probably my problem is very simple, but after some days of research, I?m
stucked.

I tried to install mailman 1.2.11 on Debian 5.0 with lighttpd 1.4.29 and
postfix 2.5.5.
Everything went fine, but I can?t call the site listen.domain.com. There
is no error, but a blank/white page with a http code 200 (curl -I). So
no error at all, but nothing to see. sometimes, when I restart lighttpd
I got to see the normal listinfo page, but if I reload it, I got again
only a blank page.
After registering a new mailinglist the mail-owner get?s a mail, so I
think, that postfix is normally configured.
The question for me is: Where to look?
In mailman logs there are no errors at all and lighttpd seems also to
work. So where I could search for the error?

Thanks!
Andreas

LIGHTTPD Config
========================
server.modules                += ( "mod_cgi" )

$HTTP["host"] == "listen.domain.com" {
server.document-root = "/usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman"
accesslog.filename = "/var/log/lighttpd/mailman/access.log"

server.name = "listen.domain.com"
# make sure that no-one can list our directory contents
server.dir-listing = "disable"

alias.url += (
"/mailman/" => "/usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/",
"/pipermail/" => "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/",
"/images/mailman/" => "/usr/share/images/mailman/",
)
cgi.assign = (
"/admin" => "",
"/admindb" => "",
"/confirm" => "",
"/create" => "",
"/edithtml" => "",
"/listinfo" => "",
"/options" => "",
"/private" => "",
"/rmlist" => "",
"/roster" => "",
"/subscribe" => "")

url.rewrite = ( "^/$" => "/mailman/listinfo",
"^/mailman/$" => "/mailman/listinfo" )
}
===================================

the mm_cfg.py looks like that


==================================
# -*- python -*-

# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA
# 02110-1301 USA


"""This is the module which takes your site-specific settings.

>From a raw distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py.  If you
already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings
you want.  The complete set of distributed defaults, with annotation,
are in ./Defaults.  In mm_cfg, override only those you want to
change, after the

  from Defaults import *

line (see below).

Note that these are just default settings - many can be overridden via the
admin and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis.

Note also that some of the settings are resolved against the active list
setting by using the value as a format string against the
list-instance-object's dictionary - see the distributed value of
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER for an example."""


#######################################################
#    Here's where we get the distributed defaults.    #

from Defaults import *

##############################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . #
# See Defaults.py for explanations of the values.            #

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The name of the list Mailman uses to send password reminders
# and similar. Don't change if you want mailman-owner to be
# a valid local part.
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# If you change these, you have to configure your http server
# accordingly (Alias and ScriptAlias directives in most httpds)
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'

PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'
IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'listen.domain.com'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default host for web interface of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'listen.domain.com'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Required when setting any of its arguments.
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The default language for this server.
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Iirc this was used in pre 2.1, leave it for now
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Unset send_reminders on newly created lists
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
# automatically recognizes newly created lists.
# (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian or
# /usr/share/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py)
# MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains (but not
# postfix-to-mailman.py), but be sure to see
# /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Debian first.
#MTA='Postfix'

MTA = None # No MTA alias processing required
# alias for postmaster, abuse and mailer-daemon
DEB_LISTMASTER = 'postmaster at listen.domain.com'


#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you want to filter mail with SpamAssassin. For
# more information please visit this website:
# http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/
# GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg,
but you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in
/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.

============================



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Oct 24 17:56:47 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 08:56:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Debian with Lighttpd ans Postfix
In-Reply-To: <4EA4A96E.7050502@web.de>
References: <4EA4A96E.7050502@web.de>
Message-ID: <4EA58ABF.5040800@msapiro.net>

On 10/23/2011 4:55 PM, Andreas Stein wrote:
> 
> probably my problem is very simple, but after some days of research, I?m
> stucked.
> 
> I tried to install mailman 1.2.11 on Debian 5.0 with lighttpd 1.4.29 and
> postfix 2.5.5.


I think you mean Mailman 2.1.11.


> Everything went fine, but I can?t call the site listen.domain.com. There
> is no error, but a blank/white page with a http code 200 (curl -I). So
> no error at all, but nothing to see. sometimes, when I restart lighttpd
> I got to see the normal listinfo page, but if I reload it, I got again
> only a blank page.


This is a lighttpd question. A URL such as
http://listen.domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo should invoke the CGI
wrapper named listinfo in Mailman's cgi-bin/ directory, and similarly
for the other CGI wrappers in Mailman's cgi-bin/ directory. If you want
simpler URLs like http://listen.domain.com or
http://listen.domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman to show the listinfo overview,
you have to redirect them in lighttpd.


> After registering a new mailinglist the mail-owner get?s a mail, so I
> think, that postfix is normally configured.


This only says Mailman can deliver outgoing mail to Postfix and Postfix
will deliver it. There is normally no Postfix configuration required to
handle this. The more significant question is whether Postfix can
deliver incoming list mail to Mailman.


> The question for me is: Where to look?
> In mailman logs there are no errors at all and lighttpd seems also to
> work. So where I could search for the error?


In the lighttpd logs?


> 
> LIGHTTPD Config
> ========================
> server.modules                += ( "mod_cgi" )
> 
> $HTTP["host"] == "listen.domain.com" {
> server.document-root = "/usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman"

I know nothing about lighttpd, but this looks like an Apache
DocumentRoot directive which is not what you need. You need the
equivalent of Apache's ScriptAlias to point mailman URLs to Mailman's
cgi-bin directory which in a Debian package would normally be
/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin, not /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman.


> accesslog.filename = "/var/log/lighttpd/mailman/access.log"
> 
> server.name = "listen.domain.com"
> # make sure that no-one can list our directory contents
> server.dir-listing = "disable"
> 
> alias.url += (
> "/mailman/" => "/usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/",


Again, this should be a CGI alias, not a normal alias.


> "/pipermail/" => "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/",
> "/images/mailman/" => "/usr/share/images/mailman/",
> )
> cgi.assign = (
> "/admin" => "",
> "/admindb" => "",
> "/confirm" => "",
> "/create" => "",
> "/edithtml" => "",
> "/listinfo" => "",
> "/options" => "",
> "/private" => "",
> "/rmlist" => "",
> "/roster" => "",
> "/subscribe" => "")


OK. maybe these do that, but you still have the issue of the path which
I think should be /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin, not /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman.


> url.rewrite = ( "^/$" => "/mailman/listinfo",
> "^/mailman/$" => "/mailman/listinfo" )


OK. these look good.


> }
> ===================================
> 
> the mm_cfg.py looks like that
[...]
> 
> #-------------------------------------------------------------
> # If you change these, you have to configure your http server
> # accordingly (Alias and ScriptAlias directives in most httpds)
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'


If I understand your lighttpd configuration, you don't want "/cgi-bin"
in mailman URLs You want the default value for DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN. I.e.,

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

or just omit it here.


> PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'


The above is meaningless as Mailman has no references to
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL. You may be thinking of the default

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

but that default should be fine based on your alias

"/pipermail/" => "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/",

[...]

As far as the stuff below is concerned (and maybe PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL
above), Please see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.


> #-------------------------------------------------------------
> # Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
> # automatically recognizes newly created lists.
> # (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian or
> # /usr/share/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py)
> # MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist
> 
> #-------------------------------------------------------------
> # Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains (but not
> # postfix-to-mailman.py), but be sure to see
> # /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Debian first.
> #MTA='Postfix'
> 
> MTA = None # No MTA alias processing required
> # alias for postmaster, abuse and mailer-daemon
> DEB_LISTMASTER = 'postmaster at listen.domain.com'
> 
> 
> #-------------------------------------------------------------
> # Uncomment if you want to filter mail with SpamAssassin. For
> # more information please visit this website:
> # http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/
> # GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')
> 
> # Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg,
> but you
> # didn't find it above, it's probably in
> /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.
> 
> ============================

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Oct 24 19:49:19 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:49:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer as attachment in Outlook problem.
In-Reply-To: <CADqBL7TykUDG_e6q_N1h6rnhb56tyAg43o4-FgdgZOMBXsdtiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011102410491903906fa777d9@MSAPIRO>

Serving Soon wrote:
>
>By the way, the footer now is not an attachment but the unsubscribe link in
>the footer is not clickable.
>
>I wonder if there is a solution for the link?


You could try coding it as an HTML tag, e.g.

<a href="%(user_optionsurl)s">Unsubscribe</a>

or whatever you do to generate the URL. Of course this will be pretty
ugly in the plain text part and perhaps not recognized as a URL by an
MUA that displays that part and renders recognized URLs as clickable
in plain text.

Unsubscribe: <a href="%(user_optionsurl)s">%(user_optionsurl)s</a>

might be preferable for someone who uses a non-Outlook MUA and chooses
a plain text view.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From whocarez at web.de  Mon Oct 24 20:10:04 2011
From: whocarez at web.de (Andreas Stein)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 21:10:04 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Debian with Lighttpd ans Postfix
In-Reply-To: <4EA58ABF.5040800@msapiro.net>
References: <4EA4A96E.7050502@web.de> <4EA58ABF.5040800@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4EA5A9FC.1080003@web.de>

Hello Mark,

24.10.2011 18:56, Mark Sapiro ?????:
> This is a lighttpd question. A URL such as
> http://listen.domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo should invoke the CGI
> wrapper named listinfo in Mailman's cgi-bin/ directory, and similarly
> for the other CGI wrappers in Mailman's cgi-bin/ directory. If you want
> simpler URLs like http://listen.domain.com or
> http://listen.domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman to show the listinfo overview,
> you have to redirect them in lighttpd.

Thank you for your response. I will do more research in the lighttpd
direction.

Andreas

From anotheranne at fables.co.za  Mon Oct 24 20:22:59 2011
From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 20:22:59 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] throttling mailman for a relay smtp server
In-Reply-To: <4E9B0445.3020200@msapiro.net>
References: <20111016150906.64e18680@pandora>
	<4E9B0445.3020200@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20111024202259.37853d11@pandora>

Hello, Mark,

in essence this has worked well and I did not exceeded the limits given
for the smtp connection.

I retained use of Postfix relaying to the isp's smtp server purely
because it is going as is. No idea of whether setting 
SMTPHOST = smtp.myisp.com would be what I should do to any advantage
but since it wasn't broken I didn't fix it.

Now the question of the initial settings for the throttle patch:

THROTTLE_TIME = 60
THROTTLE_LIMIT = 20 (since upped nearer to stated limit for 60s)

so tailing the log I see them leaving in batches of 20. ie 20 messages
in 60 seconds, no problem

Our most common local domain is telkomsa.net and when I see one of
those picked up in the batch of 20 the following messages in that batch
were all to that domain.

The setting for
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 50

Am I right that this would be the max number of telkomsa.net messages
that could be grouped together to that domain? (I don't know how this
works but imagine that you can send one message bagged with multiple
addresses to one domain)

Therefore as I understand this, no point in having SMTP_MAX_RCPTS >
THROTTLE_LIMIT as in the example given the result would be unchanged
from setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 20

Is my understanding correct?

Anne


On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 09:20:21 -0700
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 10/16/2011 6:09 AM, Anne Wainwright wrote:
> 
> > 2. I see a patch for SMTPDirect that looks like it might be good and
> > perhaps an easier route
> 
> 
> It should work.
> 
> 
> > 3. Then I see Mailman FAQ 4.72 "How do I configure Mailman to use an
> > external SMTP server?"
> > 
> > 4. confusion because this says "In mm_cfg.py add or modify:
> > 	DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
> > 	SMTPHOST = 'mail.example.com' "
> > 
> > and they are not in my mm_cfg.py and anyway we are running with postfix
> 
> 
> SMTPDirect is the default. See Defaults.py.
> 
> The default for SMTPHOST is 'localhost', i.e. your Postfix. If you
> override this in mm_cfg.py, you are saying connect to port 25 of
> whatever host you specify to send the mail rather than your own Postfix.
> 
> 
> > ??? does SMTPDirect replace having postfix do the smtp-ing?
> 
> 
> No. SMTPDirect is the Mailman module that delivers to your Postfix (or
> to SMTPHOST) via SMTP. There is no viable alternative - the 'Sendmail'
> module is NOT recommended.
> 
> 
> > ??? the patch patches SMTPDirect so it won't do anything if I do not
> > explicitly declare it in mm_cfg.py?
> 
> 
> Wrong. SMTPDirect is the default handler.
> 
> 
> > ??? what will happen then?
> > ??? should I just patch it anyway and it will go for me?
> 
> 
> Probably.
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Oct 24 20:37:22 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:37:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation on GoDaddy servers?
In-Reply-To: <6381D96B-8160-4BA8-B901-0D70A185435B@me.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011102411372203436fa777ad@MSAPIRO>

Carlos Palomino wrote:
>
>I'm new here, and new to mailman.  Please forgive the basic question.
>
>I'm mainly curious if you believe it would be possible to install mailman on a GoDaddy deluxe account?


If you mean a GoDaddy Deluxe 4GH web hosting account, I suspect it
would probably not be possible or would be a very intricate and
kludgey process. I think you would need at least an Economy Virtual
Dedicated Server to install Mailman easily.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Oct 24 23:08:52 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 14:08:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] throttling mailman for a relay smtp server
In-Reply-To: <20111024202259.37853d11@pandora>
Message-ID: <PC195201110241408520921215f698d@MSAPIRO>

Anne Wainwright wrote:
>
>in essence this has worked well and I did not exceeded the limits given
>for the smtp connection.
>
>I retained use of Postfix relaying to the isp's smtp server purely
>because it is going as is. No idea of whether setting 
>SMTPHOST = smtp.myisp.com would be what I should do to any advantage
>but since it wasn't broken I didn't fix it.


It would be better if you let Postfix deliver the mail directly rather
than via your ISP, but this would not be possible if your ISP
intercepts port 25 connects. It also will not work well if your
Mailman/Postfix server doesn't have a fixed IP and "full circle" DNS.
I.e., you have to look like a legitimate mail server and not a spambot.

Assuming that direct delivery from Postfix is not viable in your
situation, the next best may be to not patch Mailman and let Postfix
do the throttling. Both the FAQ <http://wiki.list.org/x/j4A9> and
Postfix <http://www.postfix.org/addon.html> suggest policyd
<http://policyd.sourceforge.net/readme.html> for this.

If you are going to use the Mailman throttling patch, there's no point
in going through the local Postfix as at best, Postfix is just a
passthrough, and at worst Postfix will break a message with multiple
recipients in multiple domains into multiple messages, one per domain
or even one per recipient, for delivery to the relay server.


>Now the question of the initial settings for the throttle patch:
>
>THROTTLE_TIME = 60
>THROTTLE_LIMIT = 20 (since upped nearer to stated limit for 60s)
>
>so tailing the log I see them leaving in batches of 20. ie 20 messages
>in 60 seconds, no problem
>
>Our most common local domain is telkomsa.net and when I see one of
>those picked up in the batch of 20 the following messages in that batch
>were all to that domain.
>
>The setting for
>SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 50
>
>Am I right that this would be the max number of telkomsa.net messages
>that could be grouped together to that domain? (I don't know how this
>works but imagine that you can send one message bagged with multiple
>addresses to one domain)


First, the throttle patch overrides SMTP_MAX_RCPTS if SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is
greater than THROTTLE_LIMIT. I.e., the actual maximum number of
recipients (RCPT TO) in a single SMTP (MAIL FROM) transaction is the
smaller of SMTP_MAX_RCPTS and THROTTLE_LIMIT.

Assuming no VERP or personalization, Mailman is sending the messages to
Postfix as single messages with up to the smaller of SMTP_MAX_RCPTS
and THROTTLE_LIMIT recipients per message. I.e., one message bagged
with that many addresses in your terminology.

The recipient list for the individual messages is created as follows.

First, the entire list is split into four groups by top level domain.
One group is all .com addresses, the second is .net and .org, the
third is .edu, .us and .ca and the fourth is all others. Then the
individual message recipients are taken in chunks of up to the limit
in size from the groups. So, one chunk that contains a telkomsa.net
address will probably contain others, but it is Postfix that is doing
the sorting of that chunk by recipient domain.


>Therefore as I understand this, no point in having SMTP_MAX_RCPTS >
>THROTTLE_LIMIT as in the example given the result would be unchanged
>from setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 20


That's correct. Basically, Mailman can't send to more than
THROTTLE_LIMIT recipients in one transaction (message) because that
would violate the throttling condition, so THROTTLE_LIMIT has to
override SMTP_MAX_RCPTS if SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is greater.

Note that if your Postfix log shows that for one chunk, Postfix is
delivering individual messages with one recipient per message, even
when there are multiple recipients in the same domain in that chunk
and you want to continue with Postfix as an intermediate MTA, you
might as well enable VERP (VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1) because it
won't cost you extra.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cappelen at ponderosaca.com  Mon Oct 24 23:49:26 2011
From: cappelen at ponderosaca.com (Carl Cappelen)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 14:49:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bouncing
In-Reply-To: <4EA5A9FC.1080003@web.de>
References: <4EA4A96E.7050502@web.de> <4EA58ABF.5040800@msapiro.net>
	<4EA5A9FC.1080003@web.de>
Message-ID: <4EA5DD66.6050906@ponderosaca.com>

Using Mailman 2.1.14 at the administrator level.

Is there a way to search for ALL bouncing users in the membership list ?

TIA,
Carl,

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct 25 01:35:12 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:35:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bouncing
In-Reply-To: <4EA5DD66.6050906@ponderosaca.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520111024163512031291599784@MSAPIRO>

Carl Cappelen wrote:

>Using Mailman 2.1.14 at the administrator level.
>
>Is there a way to search for ALL bouncing users in the membership list ?


If you don't have command line access to the server, the best you can
do is use a script such as the one at
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/mailman-subscribers.py> which can
screen-scrape the web admin Membership List and print a list of those
members whose delivery is disabled by bounce.

If you do have command line access, see Mailman's 'bin/list_members
--help', and if you are interested in members who have bounce
information, but whose delivery is not yet disabled, see
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/get_bounce_info.py>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From drew at fergiesontour.org  Mon Oct 24 17:53:00 2011
From: drew at fergiesontour.org (Drew Ferguson)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:53:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Hosting Query
Message-ID: <20111024165300.0bd30528@blacktav.fergiesontour.org>

Hi

I am trying to get virtual hosting working in Mailman 2.1.14 with Postfix

Documentation at http://list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html
specifies setting POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS to list the virtual domains
required in mm_cfg.py

However, doing this does not seem to have the desired effect with list
creation reporting

  Error: Unknown virtual host on create list

Google points to an old mail
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-February/034943.html
which says to put a line like 
  add_virtualhost('web.domain.com','smtp.domain.com')
in mm_cfg.py

and doing so allows the creation of the list

Have I missed something fundamental or should this be in the
documentation?

Ta
-- 
Drew

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct 25 20:40:06 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 11:40:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Hosting Query
In-Reply-To: <20111024165300.0bd30528@blacktav.fergiesontour.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201110251140060140e1768112@MSAPIRO>

Drew Ferguson wrote:
>
>Google points to an old mail
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-February/034943.html
>which says to put a line like 
>  add_virtualhost('web.domain.com','smtp.domain.com')
>in mm_cfg.py
>
>and doing so allows the creation of the list
>
>Have I missed something fundamental or should this be in the
>documentation?


It is in the documentation. Defaults.py contains

># Mailman needs to know about (at least) two fully-qualified domain names
># (fqdn); 1) the hostname used in your urls, and 2) the hostname used in email
># addresses for your domain.  For example, if people visit your Mailman system
># with "http://www.dom.ain/mailman" then your url fqdn is "www.dom.ain", and
># if people send mail to your system via "yourlist at dom.ain" then your email
># fqdn is "dom.ain".  DEFAULT_URL_HOST controls the former, and
># DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST controls the latter.  Mailman also needs to know how to
># map from one to the other (this is especially important if you're running
># with virtual domains).  You use "add_virtualhost(urlfqdn, emailfqdn)" to add
># new mappings.

The installation manual urges you to read Defaults.py
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/customizing.html>.

This is also covered in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>.

If there is some other specific place where you feel this should be
mentioned, please let us know.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From drew at fergiesontour.org  Wed Oct 26 00:59:49 2011
From: drew at fergiesontour.org (Drew Ferguson)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:59:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Hosting Query
In-Reply-To: <PC195201110251140060140e1768112@MSAPIRO>
References: <20111024165300.0bd30528@blacktav.fergiesontour.org>
	<PC195201110251140060140e1768112@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <20111025235949.3e808389@blacktav.fergiesontour.org>

Hi

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 11:40:06 -0700
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> This is also covered in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>.
> 
> If there is some other specific place where you feel this should be
> mentioned, please let us know.

This is the page I should have found

 http://wiki.list.org/x/8YA9

I've no idea why it did not feature in search results when chasing down
the problem.

apologies for the noise...
-- 
Drew

From adamsca at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 18:47:48 2011
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 09:47:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook and priority messages to Mailman
Message-ID: <CAA13W+_u15greoinFHwGEe1bZg1CytxME7DPYd0p841gxSSsuw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

If an individual sends a priority message via Outlook to a Mailman
list, does it assume that it is a bcc? I was able to verify that the
person sent the message directly to the list, but the message was sent
to the administrator with the "implicit destination" tag. I realize
that I can control this behavior at the list or system level, but just
looking for verification of this behavior.

Thanks.



-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 27 23:14:12 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 14:14:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook and priority messages to Mailman
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+_u15greoinFHwGEe1bZg1CytxME7DPYd0p841gxSSsuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011102714141206872993687b@MSAPIRO>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>If an individual sends a priority message via Outlook to a Mailman
>list, does it assume that it is a bcc?


No.


>I was able to verify that the
>person sent the message directly to the list, but the message was sent
>to the administrator with the "implicit destination" tag. I realize
>that I can control this behavior at the list or system level, but just
>looking for verification of this behavior.


Messages are held for "implicit destination" only if neither the list
address nor one of the Privacy options... -> Recipient filters ->
acceptable_aliases regexps is matched in a To: or Cc: header of the
post.

How did you verify the post was explicitly addressed to the list? Did
you see the list address in a To: or Cc: header in the copy of the
post in the held message notice? Did you see the list address in a To:
or Cc: header in the headers portion of the moderator approval page?
If you look at the message in
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox, do you see the list
address in a To: or Cc: header?
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rcarter at pinyon.org  Fri Oct 28 00:54:24 2011
From: rcarter at pinyon.org (Russell L. Carter)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:54:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archive points to private archive directory
In-Reply-To: <20111025235949.3e808389@blacktav.fergiesontour.org>
References: <20111024165300.0bd30528@blacktav.fergiesontour.org>	<PC195201110251140060140e1768112@MSAPIRO>
	<20111025235949.3e808389@blacktav.fergiesontour.org>
Message-ID: <4EA9E120.3090401@pinyon.org>

Greetings,
I've just brought up mailman on a debian-testing box
and almost everything works. (Hooray!) The problem I'm having
is that after creating a list, subscribing a user, and
sending a message to the list, I go to the list info
page:

http://lists.pinyon.org/listinfo/testing3

and click on ... visit the Testing3 Archives with
link:

http://lists.pinyon.org/pipermail/testing3/

and I get

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /pipermail/testing3/ on this server.

So ok, this seems to be a permissions problem, and I'm bothering
you all so that I can learn the Right Way(tm) to fix it.

The relevant apache config is:

 <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/>
	Options FollowSymLinks
	AllowOverride None
 </Directory>
 Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/

Here's the permissions trail (after bin/check_perms -f):

root at quine:/var/lib/mailman# ls
archives/  cgi-bin@  data/   lists/  logs@  Mailman@   qfiles/   spam/
bin@       cron@     icons@  locks@  mail@  messages/  scripts@  templates@
root at quine:/var/lib/mailman# ls -ld archives/
drwxrwsr-x 4 root list 4096 Oct 26 17:59 archives//
root at quine:/var/lib/mailman# ls -ld archives/*
drwxrws--- 6 list list 4096 Oct 27 15:09 archives/private/
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 Oct 27 15:09 archives/public/
root at quine:/var/lib/mailman# ls -ld archives/public/*
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root     list 41 Oct 26 18:01 archives/public/mailman ->
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/
lrwxrwxrwx 1 www-data list 42 Oct 27 15:09 archives/public/testing3 ->
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/testing3/

Hmm, archives/public/testing3 points to archives/private/... but
apache running as www-data can't access archives/private because
private is list:list and with no world readers (as it should be).

However the list testing3 is configured to have *public* archives.
So... why is the public archive pointing to the private one?

What's the Right Way to fix this so that clicking the visit archives
link on a new list doesn't result in a 403 Forbidden barf?

Or have I possibly botched something else?

Many thanks,
Russell

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Oct 28 01:33:25 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 16:33:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archive points to private archive
	directory
In-Reply-To: <4EA9E120.3090401@pinyon.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201110271633250109543c6046@MSAPIRO>

Russell L. Carter wrote:

>I've just brought up mailman on a debian-testing box
>and almost everything works. (Hooray!) The problem I'm having
>is that after creating a list, subscribing a user, and
>sending a message to the list, I go to the list info
>page:
>
>http://lists.pinyon.org/listinfo/testing3
>
>and click on ... visit the Testing3 Archives with
>link:
>
>http://lists.pinyon.org/pipermail/testing3/
>
>and I get
>
>Forbidden
>
>You don't have permission to access /pipermail/testing3/ on this server.
>
[...]
>Here's the permissions trail (after bin/check_perms -f):
>
[...]
>drwxrws--- 6 list list 4096 Oct 27 15:09 archives/private/
[...]
>Hmm, archives/public/testing3 points to archives/private/... but
>apache running as www-data can't access archives/private because
>private is list:list and with no world readers (as it should be).


[...]
>However the list testing3 is configured to have *public* archives.
>So... why is the public archive pointing to the private one?


Because the archives are always in the archives/private/ tree and
archives/public contains only symlinks to archives/public.

If this were not the case, changing an archive from private to public
or vice versa would require moving the tree rather than just
adding/removing a symlink.


>What's the Right Way to fix this so that clicking the visit archives
>link on a new list doesn't result in a 403 Forbidden barf?


Make the archives/private/ directory searchable by the web server.
Either

chown www-data:list archives/private

or

chmod o+x archives/private.

See section 4 of the installation manual at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>. Also see
<http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>, and if this is the way the Debian
package installs, report this to Debian as a packaging bug.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Oct 28 01:37:01 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 16:37:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archive points to private archive
	directory
In-Reply-To: <PC195201110271633250109543c6046@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <PC195201110271637010328827c80c9@MSAPIRO>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Because the archives are always in the archives/private/ tree and
>archives/public contains only symlinks to archives/public.


That should be

archives/public contains only symlinks to archives/private.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rcarter at pinyon.org  Fri Oct 28 02:02:57 2011
From: rcarter at pinyon.org (Russell L. Carter)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:02:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archive points to private archive
	directory
In-Reply-To: <PC195201110271633250109543c6046@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201110271633250109543c6046@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4EA9F131.5080604@pinyon.org>



On 10/27/2011 04:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> What's the Right Way to fix this so that clicking the visit archives
>> link on a new list doesn't result in a 403 Forbidden barf?
> 
> 
> Make the archives/private/ directory searchable by the web server.
> Either
> 
> chown www-data:list archives/private
> 
> or
> 
> chmod o+x archives/private.
> 
> See section 4 of the installation manual at
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>. Also see
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>, and if this is the way the Debian
> package installs, report this to Debian as a packaging bug.
> 

Ok, I guess I need to purge the current installation and
figure out where the permissions go awry while configuring the
debian installed package.

Thanks for the pointers.

Best,
Russell


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Oct 28 02:12:46 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:12:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archive points to private
	archivedirectory
In-Reply-To: <4EA9F131.5080604@pinyon.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201110271712460671543c628d@MSAPIRO>

Russell L. Carterwrote:
>
>On 10/27/2011 04:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>> What's the Right Way to fix this so that clicking the visit archives
>>> link on a new list doesn't result in a 403 Forbidden barf?
>> 
>> 
>> Make the archives/private/ directory searchable by the web server.
>> Either
>> 
>> chown www-data:list archives/private
>> 
>> or
>> 
>> chmod o+x archives/private.
>> 
>> See section 4 of the installation manual at
>> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>. Also see
>> <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>, and if this is the way the Debian
>> package installs, report this to Debian as a packaging bug.
>> 
>
>Ok, I guess I need to purge the current installation and
>figure out where the permissions go awry while configuring the
>debian installed package.


One possibility is that the archives/private directory was installed
o+x and bin/check_perms told you

Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
         This could allow other users on your system to read private
archives.
         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
         installation manual on how to fix this.

and you then set o-x without also changing the owner to www-data.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fpicabia at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 14:37:07 2011
From: fpicabia at gmail.com (francis picabia)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 09:37:07 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking messages from kijiji
Message-ID: <CA+AKB6E2SQbc16BpAue7_=ZdfMdKF-12uxQzkY4gGce4NsQs_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

We run a mailing list for staff which should not
receive email from outside of the list membership.

The only non-member address allowed to post is
another mailing list.

Today we received a post from post at kijiji.ca
and it made it through to the list.

I see this in the post log file:

Oct 26 18:21:41 2011 (2999) post to fyi from post at kijiji.ca,
size=5293, message-id=<1190302152.2079281319664066415.JavaMail.root at kj-classy012>,
success

We've tested this with a second small membership and restricted
mailing list for our IT staff, and again a post from kijiji gets through.

If we email from a gmail account or something, it is blocked as expected.

In kijiji interface, they allow you to set up the sender, and this is
likely passing the test for the sender, but it is only
the sender in the envelope, which isn't reported in mailman
(nor Postfix in what I saw).

We've been running the same mailman 2.1.9 from Redhat for
a few years and there has never been a problem like this before.

I think we would prefer if both the sender From: and the envelope
sender had to match, or had to both be allowed to post.

Adding the post at kijiji.ca address to the rejected senders did not block them,
which isn't surprising as it is looking at the other subscribed sender.

Anyone else have experiences with that or suggested approaches?

From fpicabia at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 14:54:07 2011
From: fpicabia at gmail.com (francis picabia)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 09:54:07 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking messages from kijiji
In-Reply-To: <CA+AKB6E2SQbc16BpAue7_=ZdfMdKF-12uxQzkY4gGce4NsQs_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+AKB6E2SQbc16BpAue7_=ZdfMdKF-12uxQzkY4gGce4NsQs_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+AKB6Gs=6cW7g3=G8i-oify21CM_Eh3Py4sGcRRg28S33-+Lg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:37 AM, francis picabia <fpicabia at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We run a mailing list for staff which should not
> receive email from outside of the list membership.
>
> The only non-member address allowed to post is
> another mailing list.
>
> Today we received a post from post at kijiji.ca
> and it made it through to the list.
>
> I see this in the post log file:
>
> Oct 26 18:21:41 2011 (2999) post to fyi from post at kijiji.ca,
> size=5293, message-id=<1190302152.2079281319664066415.JavaMail.root at kj-classy012>,
> success
>
> We've tested this with a second small membership and restricted
> mailing list for our IT staff, and again a post from kijiji gets through.
>
> If we email from a gmail account or something, it is blocked as expected.
>
> In kijiji interface, they allow you to set up the sender, and this is
> likely passing the test for the sender, but it is only
> the sender in the envelope, which isn't reported in mailman
> (nor Postfix in what I saw).
>
> We've been running the same mailman 2.1.9 from Redhat for
> a few years and there has never been a problem like this before.
>
> I think we would prefer if both the sender From: and the envelope
> sender had to match, or had to both be allowed to post.
>
> Adding the post at kijiji.ca address to the rejected senders did not block them,
> which isn't surprising as it is looking at the other subscribed sender.
>
> Anyone else have experiences with that or suggested approaches?
>

I looked at older postings in this mailing list and it appears this is
a solution:

Quoting Mark Sapiro:

> If this is your Mailman installation, you could try putting
>
> SENDER_HEADERS = (None,)
>
> in mm_cfg.py. This would say that the post is considered to be from a
> member only if the envelope sender is a member."

I'll try this.

From fpicabia at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 15:07:04 2011
From: fpicabia at gmail.com (francis picabia)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 10:07:04 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking messages from kijiji
In-Reply-To: <CA+AKB6Gs=6cW7g3=G8i-oify21CM_Eh3Py4sGcRRg28S33-+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+AKB6E2SQbc16BpAue7_=ZdfMdKF-12uxQzkY4gGce4NsQs_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+AKB6Gs=6cW7g3=G8i-oify21CM_Eh3Py4sGcRRg28S33-+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+AKB6Ho=CwEoo7K7Pqj2B=K8RsNUQoD1RXnZukJd4QFmEgHBw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:54 AM, francis picabia <fpicabia at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:37 AM, francis picabia <fpicabia at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> We run a mailing list for staff which should not
>> receive email from outside of the list membership.
>>
>> The only non-member address allowed to post is
>> another mailing list.
>>
>> Today we received a post from post at kijiji.ca
>> and it made it through to the list.
>>
>> I see this in the post log file:
>>
>> Oct 26 18:21:41 2011 (2999) post to fyi from post at kijiji.ca,
>> size=5293, message-id=<1190302152.2079281319664066415.JavaMail.root at kj-classy012>,
>> success
>>
>> We've tested this with a second small membership and restricted
>> mailing list for our IT staff, and again a post from kijiji gets through.
>>
>> If we email from a gmail account or something, it is blocked as expected.
>>
>> In kijiji interface, they allow you to set up the sender, and this is
>> likely passing the test for the sender, but it is only
>> the sender in the envelope, which isn't reported in mailman
>> (nor Postfix in what I saw).
>>
>> We've been running the same mailman 2.1.9 from Redhat for
>> a few years and there has never been a problem like this before.
>>
>> I think we would prefer if both the sender From: and the envelope
>> sender had to match, or had to both be allowed to post.
>>
>> Adding the post at kijiji.ca address to the rejected senders did not block them,
>> which isn't surprising as it is looking at the other subscribed sender.
>>
>> Anyone else have experiences with that or suggested approaches?
>>
>
> I looked at older postings in this mailing list and it appears this is
> a solution:
>
> Quoting Mark Sapiro:
>
>> If this is your Mailman installation, you could try putting
>>
>> SENDER_HEADERS = (None,)
>>
>> in mm_cfg.py. This would say that the post is considered to be from a
>> member only if the envelope sender is a member."
>
> I'll try this.
>

On second thought what we needed is similar, but probably:

SENDER_HEADERS = ('from')

Would there be problems "from" this?

For internal emails we already use canonical_maps in
postfix to standardize the from address into something
predictable.

From fpicabia at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 16:22:56 2011
From: fpicabia at gmail.com (francis picabia)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 11:22:56 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking messages from kijiji (SENDER_HEADERS
 solution interferes with logging?)
Message-ID: <CA+AKB6Hz+sByiFNrjcbQPOLbgBKGxsGrkKcDhpdao-OvaXO+Dw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:07 AM, francis picabia <fpicabia at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:54 AM, francis picabia <fpicabia at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:37 AM, francis picabia <fpicabia at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> We run a mailing list for staff which should not
>>> receive email from outside of the list membership.
>>>
>>> The only non-member address allowed to post is
>>> another mailing list.
>>>
>>> Today we received a post from post at kijiji.ca
>>> and it made it through to the list.
>>>
>>> I see this in the post log file:
>>>
>>> Oct 26 18:21:41 2011 (2999) post to fyi from post at kijiji.ca,
>>> size=5293, message-id=<1190302152.2079281319664066415.JavaMail.root at kj-classy012>,
>>> success
>>>
>>> We've tested this with a second small membership and restricted
>>> mailing list for our IT staff, and again a post from kijiji gets through.
>>>
>>> If we email from a gmail account or something, it is blocked as expected.
>>>
>>> In kijiji interface, they allow you to set up the sender, and this is
>>> likely passing the test for the sender, but it is only
>>> the sender in the envelope, which isn't reported in mailman
>>> (nor Postfix in what I saw).
>>>
>>> We've been running the same mailman 2.1.9 from Redhat for
>>> a few years and there has never been a problem like this before.
>>>
>>> I think we would prefer if both the sender From: and the envelope
>>> sender had to match, or had to both be allowed to post.
>>>
>>> Adding the post at kijiji.ca address to the rejected senders did not block them,
>>> which isn't surprising as it is looking at the other subscribed sender.
>>>
>>> Anyone else have experiences with that or suggested approaches?
>>>
>>
>> I looked at older postings in this mailing list and it appears this is
>> a solution:
>>
>> Quoting Mark Sapiro:
>>
>>> If this is your Mailman installation, you could try putting
>>>
>>> SENDER_HEADERS = (None,)
>>>
>>> in mm_cfg.py. This would say that the post is considered to be from a
>>> member only if the envelope sender is a member."
>>
>> I'll try this.
>>
>
> On second thought what we needed is similar, but probably:
>
> SENDER_HEADERS = ('from')
>
> Would there be problems "from" this?
>
> For internal emails we already use canonical_maps in
> postfix to standardize the from address into something
> predictable.
>

This works, but of course it has caught someone using another
unconventional list
with a problem of the sort: "but it always worked this way before".

I check out the /var/log/maillog area for signs the user
is caught by this change, but oddly, nothing is
appearing in the logs.  It appears than restricting
the SENDER_HEADERS this way causes no logging
on the mailman end.  Is there a way to fix this?

From fpicabia at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 17:27:50 2011
From: fpicabia at gmail.com (francis picabia)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 12:27:50 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking messages from kijiji (SENDER_HEADERS
 solution interferes with logging?)
In-Reply-To: <CA+AKB6Hz+sByiFNrjcbQPOLbgBKGxsGrkKcDhpdao-OvaXO+Dw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+AKB6Hz+sByiFNrjcbQPOLbgBKGxsGrkKcDhpdao-OvaXO+Dw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+AKB6H0E0NjEy2Vv_3C8g1R7S+97L81ugDdGcZPMoY8GCdEcw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:22 AM, francis picabia <fpicabia at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:07 AM, francis picabia <fpicabia at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:54 AM, francis picabia <fpicabia at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:37 AM, francis picabia <fpicabia at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> We run a mailing list for staff which should not
>>>> receive email from outside of the list membership.
>>>>
>>>> The only non-member address allowed to post is
>>>> another mailing list.
>>>>
>>>> Today we received a post from post at kijiji.ca
>>>> and it made it through to the list.
>>>>
>>>> I see this in the post log file:
>>>>
>>>> Oct 26 18:21:41 2011 (2999) post to fyi from post at kijiji.ca,
>>>> size=5293, message-id=<1190302152.2079281319664066415.JavaMail.root at kj-classy012>,
>>>> success
>>>>
>>>> We've tested this with a second small membership and restricted
>>>> mailing list for our IT staff, and again a post from kijiji gets through.
>>>>
>>>> If we email from a gmail account or something, it is blocked as expected.
>>>>
>>>> In kijiji interface, they allow you to set up the sender, and this is
>>>> likely passing the test for the sender, but it is only
>>>> the sender in the envelope, which isn't reported in mailman
>>>> (nor Postfix in what I saw).
>>>>
>>>> We've been running the same mailman 2.1.9 from Redhat for
>>>> a few years and there has never been a problem like this before.
>>>>
>>>> I think we would prefer if both the sender From: and the envelope
>>>> sender had to match, or had to both be allowed to post.
>>>>
>>>> Adding the post at kijiji.ca address to the rejected senders did not block them,
>>>> which isn't surprising as it is looking at the other subscribed sender.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone else have experiences with that or suggested approaches?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I looked at older postings in this mailing list and it appears this is
>>> a solution:
>>>
>>> Quoting Mark Sapiro:
>>>
>>>> If this is your Mailman installation, you could try putting
>>>>
>>>> SENDER_HEADERS = (None,)
>>>>
>>>> in mm_cfg.py. This would say that the post is considered to be from a
>>>> member only if the envelope sender is a member."
>>>
>>> I'll try this.
>>>
>>
>> On second thought what we needed is similar, but probably:
>>
>> SENDER_HEADERS = ('from')
>>
>> Would there be problems "from" this?
>>
>> For internal emails we already use canonical_maps in
>> postfix to standardize the from address into something
>> predictable.
>>
>
> This works, but of course it has caught someone using another
> unconventional list
> with a problem of the sort: "but it always worked this way before".
>
> I check out the /var/log/maillog area for signs the user
> is caught by this change, but oddly, nothing is
> appearing in the logs. ?It appears than restricting
> the SENDER_HEADERS this way causes no logging
> on the mailman end. ?Is there a way to fix this?
>

I've now removed the SENDER_HEADERS configuration.  It was interfering
with too much delivery to our lists which should have gone through,
and without logging in mailman, I don't know why.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Oct 28 08:25:25 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:25:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking messages from kijiji
	(SENDER_HEADERSsolution interferes with logging?)
In-Reply-To: <CA+AKB6H0E0NjEy2Vv_3C8g1R7S+97L81ugDdGcZPMoY8GCdEcw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201110272325250453e67fe79e@MSAPIRO>

francis picabia wrote:
>>>
>>> On second thought what we needed is similar, but probably:
>>>
>>> SENDER_HEADERS = ('from')
>>>
>>> Would there be problems "from" this?


It should be

SENDER_HEADERS = ('from',)

The comma is important. It makes SENDER_HEADERS a tuple with one
member. Without the comma, SENDER_HEADERS would be the string 'from'
and the code which looks at all the headers in SENDER_HEADERS would
look at the 'f', 'r', 'o' and 'm' headers and would find no senders so
all posts would be non-member posts.


>>> For internal emails we already use canonical_maps in
>>> postfix to standardize the from address into something
>>> predictable.
>>>
>>
>> This works, but of course it has caught someone using another
>> unconventional list
>> with a problem of the sort: "but it always worked this way before".
>>
>> I check out the /var/log/maillog area for signs the user
>> is caught by this change, but oddly, nothing is
>> appearing in the logs.  It appears than restricting
>> the SENDER_HEADERS this way causes no logging
>> on the mailman end.  Is there a way to fix this?


The post should have been handled via generic_nonmember_action and
whatever action was taken, it should have been logged in Mailman's
'vette' log, unless there was some other problem causing an exception
logged with a traceback in Mailman's 'error' log.


>I've now removed the SENDER_HEADERS configuration.  It was interfering
>with too much delivery to our lists which should have gone through,
>and without logging in mailman, I don't know why.


If you put the correct

SENDER_HEADERS = ('from',)

in mm_cfg.py, it should work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Oct 28 11:04:23 2011
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 18:04:23 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking messages from kijiji
In-Reply-To: <CA+AKB6Ho=CwEoo7K7Pqj2B=K8RsNUQoD1RXnZukJd4QFmEgHBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+AKB6E2SQbc16BpAue7_=ZdfMdKF-12uxQzkY4gGce4NsQs_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+AKB6Gs=6cW7g3=G8i-oify21CM_Eh3Py4sGcRRg28S33-+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+AKB6Ho=CwEoo7K7Pqj2B=K8RsNUQoD1RXnZukJd4QFmEgHBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <871utx4hd4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

francis picabia writes:

 > On second thought what we needed is similar, but probably:
 > 
 > SENDER_HEADERS = ('from')
 > 
 > Would there be problems "from" this?

Yes; anybody who can reach your MTA can very easily spoof an internal
address in from, although even the envelope sender is not hard to
spoof (as you already have experienced).

Maybe you should just firewall kijiji completely.


From andy at safermail.co.uk  Sat Oct 29 00:45:02 2011
From: andy at safermail.co.uk (andy at safermail.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 18:45:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a demo
Message-ID: <cf1c5ee.bc5e65b6481c9b0169fa66d0c4877322@www.safermail.co.uk>

Is there a live demo of MailMan ?

From lists at luigirosa.com  Sat Oct 29 16:58:15 2011
From: lists at luigirosa.com (Luigi Rosa)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 16:58:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a demo
In-Reply-To: <cf1c5ee.bc5e65b6481c9b0169fa66d0c4877322@www.safermail.co.uk>
References: <cf1c5ee.bc5e65b6481c9b0169fa66d0c4877322@www.safermail.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4EAC1487.6000406@luigirosa.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

andy at safermail.co.uk said the following on 29/10/11 00:45:

> Is there a live demo of MailMan ?

Don't you have enough spam in your mailbox? :)




Ciao,
luigi

- -- 
/
+--[Luigi Rosa]--
\

- -rw-rw-rw-   The Permission of the Beast
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk6sFIAACgkQ3kWu7Tfl6ZQyogCgkAuPJmi3Y6LHI4RXBBzoBWO9
Hg8AoKVbT1tJz1FF8g/xwHPaNMgx3uqb
=zP3C
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From anotheranne at fables.co.za  Sun Oct 30 20:37:31 2011
From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 21:37:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces not getting through for processing
Message-ID: <20111030213731.511626ca@pandora>

Hi,

Sorry if this is a bit vague.

I give an excerpt from a log file today. One of many with slightly
different wordings depending on which server was responding. Some
reporting me as 'exceeding the limit for bounced messages'.

Oct 30 16:02:39 jason postfix/smtp[11547]: B6883E81A7:
to=<fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za at fables.co.za>,
relay=smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193]:25, conn_use=5, delay=45,
delays=0.02/0/0.24/45, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host
smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193] said: 550 Sorry, I don't accept bounce
messages with a invalid recipient. (in reply to RCPT TO command))

(some of the bounce addresses _were_ valid, I checked one, got an
answer back from the addressee, but that could be a different issue)

Verp is on as you can see. But on a run last week without verp we were
left in the same situation as described here.

There were a lot similar to this. I note that get_bounce_info shows no
bounce information when I ran it after the run.

anne at jason:~ ssh$ sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -r get_bounce_info
fables-list
Importing get_bounce_info...
Running get_bounce_info.get_bounce_info()...
Loading list fables-list (unlocked)
Bounce info for fables-list list
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
Finalizing

ditto bounce results for a small test list as well which has
deliberate dud addresses on.

Further, since I am running this through a relay, the relevant email
account fables-list-bounces@ shows no activity whatsoever today. No
bounce mail passed through there.

Not a doubt that I should have had a lot of bounces on this list which
has been dormant for months, and the log file did show plenty.

Any idea where I might find the holdup? I suspect either the postfix
configuration or something to do with the smtp relay isp. I don't think
the bounces get back to the isp email account, are then not downloaded,
are then not processed. ???

regards
Anne


 

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Oct 30 22:49:54 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 14:49:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces not getting through for processing
In-Reply-To: <20111030213731.511626ca@pandora>
Message-ID: <PC195201110301449540078fa7c9e44@MSAPIRO>

Anne Wainwright wrote:
>
>Sorry if this is a bit vague.


And my guesses at what's going on may be a bit vague too.


>I give an excerpt from a log file today. One of many with slightly
>different wordings depending on which server was responding. Some
>reporting me as 'exceeding the limit for bounced messages'.


I don't know about 'exceeding the limit for bounced messages', but see
below.


>Oct 30 16:02:39 jason postfix/smtp[11547]: B6883E81A7:
>to=<fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za at fables.co.za>,
>relay=smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193]:25, conn_use=5, delay=45,
>delays=0.02/0/0.24/45, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host
>smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193] said: 550 Sorry, I don't accept bounce
>messages with a invalid recipient. (in reply to RCPT TO command))


The recipient here is
fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za at fables.co.za which
smtp.isdsl.net thinks is an invalid address. Apparently smtp.isdsl.net
is one of the names of one of the IPs of default-mx.imaginet.co.za
which is the MX for the fables.co.za domain.


>(some of the bounce addresses _were_ valid, I checked one, got an
>answer back from the addressee, but that could be a different issue)


The address that smtp.isdsl.net thinks is invalid is
fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za at fables.co.za, not
dmorris at inext.co.za.

The most likely reason for this is that Postfix's main.cf on
smtp.isdsl.net (if the MTA on smtp.isdsl.net is Postfix) is lacking

recipient_delimiter = +

This is required for VERP to work with the default delimiter (+). It
tell Postfix that the recipient
fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za is actually
fables-list-bounces. Without this, Postfix attempts to deliver to the
full VERPed recipient fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za which is
invalid.


>Verp is on as you can see. But on a run last week without verp we were
>left in the same situation as described here.


Then there's more to it than what I'm saying. Does smtp.isdsl.net (and
the other relays) know how to deliver or relay to all 10 of the
fables-list addresses including fables-list-bounces,
fables-list-confirm, fables-list-request, fables-list-owner,
fables-list-join, fables-list-leave, fables-list-subscribe and
fables-list-unsubscribe?


>There were a lot similar to this. I note that get_bounce_info shows no
>bounce information when I ran it after the run.


Because none of the bounce DSNs ever got delivered to Mailman.


[...]
>Further, since I am running this through a relay, the relevant email
>account fables-list-bounces@ shows no activity whatsoever today. No
>bounce mail passed through there.


I'm not sure what you're saying, but I would expect something in the
MTA log of smtp.isdsl.net at Oct 30 16:02:39 because there was at
least a connect, a MAIL FROM and a RCPT TO from jason.

OTOH, if all you are saying is that no mail was relayed to
fables-list-bounces@, that's because it was all rejected at the relay.


>Not a doubt that I should have had a lot of bounces on this list which
>has been dormant for months, and the log file did show plenty.
>
>Any idea where I might find the holdup? I suspect either the postfix
>configuration or something to do with the smtp relay isp. I don't think
>the bounces get back to the isp email account, are then not downloaded,
>are then not processed. ???


Right. They get rejected as undeliverable by smtp.isdsl.net, either
because it doesn't know how to relay for LISTNAME-bounces at fables.co.za
or it doesn't recognize that LISTNAME-bounces+XXX at fables.co.za should
be relayed the same as LISTNAME-bounces at fables.co.za.

If it's the latter, and you don't control the MTA there and can't teach
it that '+' is a valid separator between a local part and a suffix, it
might recognize '-' in this role in which case see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/D4CE>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From campbell at cnpapers.com  Mon Oct 31 20:04:11 2011
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 15:04:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit Address rehash
Message-ID: <4EAEF12B.6070705@cnpapers.com>

I've set up a mail list with the name "Cn-dailydeals" that resides on a 
certain server. Our Interactive department has written a php script that 
sends an email to this list that continuously gets held due to the 
"implicit address" stuff.

Posts to the list back in December of 2007 suggested I could create an 
alias to get around the problem. I've tried every which way to create 
the regexp that will match this but am failing terribly.

The sender is getting the following back from the post:

Your mail to 'Cn-dailydeals' with the subject

     Gazette-Mail Daily Deal

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

     Message has implicit destination

Can someone suggest a proper regexp to match this, and do I need the
"@server" part in the alias?

I've tried using escapes and everyting, but nothing seems to work.

Thanks for any help

steve campbell




From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Oct 31 20:49:20 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:49:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit Address rehash
In-Reply-To: <4EAEF12B.6070705@cnpapers.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520111031124920057897975196@MSAPIRO>

Steve Campbell wrote:

>I've set up a mail list with the name "Cn-dailydeals" that resides on a 
>certain server. Our Interactive department has written a php script that 
>sends an email to this list that continuously gets held due to the 
>"implicit address" stuff.


Exactly what is in the To: (and Cc: if any) header of this post? You
can see these headers in the admindb interface display of the held
post.


[...]
>Can someone suggest a proper regexp to match this, and do I need the
>"@server" part in the alias?


Answer the above question and we can tell you.

Or better yet, make the php script create a message with the header

To: Cn-dailydeals at ...

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From campbell at cnpapers.com  Mon Oct 31 21:03:07 2011
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 16:03:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit Address rehash
In-Reply-To: <PC19520111031124920057897975196@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19520111031124920057897975196@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4EAEFEFB.8070602@cnpapers.com>

I looked at these in the admin interface, and didn't see a specific "To" 
line, so I thought it must be looking at the envelope.

The Message Headers has the following in it:

Received: from xxx.xxxxxxx.xxx (linus.cnpapers.net [10.0.0.140])
     by xxxxxxxx.cnpapers.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id 
p9VIp1Fr020768
     for &lt;cn-dailydeals at xxxxxxx.cnpapers.net&gt;; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 
14:51:01 -0400

I x'ed out a little to try and keep spam away, although that's almost 
impossible in today's world. There is a "for" address in the header line.

There's an earlier line in the headers where the address appears proper, 
though still not a real "To", but another "for" line.

The To line in my MailWatch headers shows a normal To address.

Thanks for the help.

steve

On 10/31/2011 3:49 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Steve Campbell wrote:
>
>> I've set up a mail list with the name "Cn-dailydeals" that resides on a
>> certain server. Our Interactive department has written a php script that
>> sends an email to this list that continuously gets held due to the
>> "implicit address" stuff.
>
> Exactly what is in the To: (and Cc: if any) header of this post? You
> can see these headers in the admindb interface display of the held
> post.
>
>
> [...]
>> Can someone suggest a proper regexp to match this, and do I need the
>> "@server" part in the alias?
>
> Answer the above question and we can tell you.
>
> Or better yet, make the php script create a message with the header
>
> To: Cn-dailydeals at ...
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Oct 31 21:16:05 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:16:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit Address rehash
In-Reply-To: <4EAEFEFB.8070602@cnpapers.com>
References: <PC19520111031124920057897975196@MSAPIRO>
	<4EAEFEFB.8070602@cnpapers.com>
Message-ID: <4EAF0205.70204@msapiro.net>

On 10/31/2011 1:03 PM, Steve Campbell wrote:
> I looked at these in the admin interface, and didn't see a specific "To"
> line, so I thought it must be looking at the envelope.


MTAs, etc. look at the envelope for delivery information, but Mailman
looks at the To: and Cc: headers to determine if the list is explicitly
addressed.


> The Message Headers has the following in it:
> 
> Received: from xxx.xxxxxxx.xxx (linus.cnpapers.net [10.0.0.140])
>     by xxxxxxxx.cnpapers.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id
> p9VIp1Fr020768
>     for &lt;cn-dailydeals at xxxxxxx.cnpapers.net&gt;; Mon, 31 Oct 2011
> 14:51:01 -0400
> 
> I x'ed out a little to try and keep spam away, although that's almost
> impossible in today's world. There is a "for" address in the header line.


Which is a reflection of the envelope recipient, but Mailman is not
considering that at this point. The envelope must have been addressed to
the list or the post wouldn't be there at all. Mailman is verifying that
the list or an acceptable alias is explicitly addressed in a To: or Cc:
header which is not true in this case.


> There's an earlier line in the headers where the address appears proper,
> though still not a real "To", but another "for" line.
> 
> The To line in my MailWatch headers shows a normal To address.


That too is the envelope recipient.

You have two choices. Make the PHP script put the list address in a To:
header in the mail or turn off the list's require_explicit_destination.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anotheranne at fables.co.za  Mon Oct 31 22:09:41 2011
From: anotheranne at fables.co.za (Anne Wainwright)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 23:09:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces not getting through for processing
In-Reply-To: <PC195201110301449540078fa7c9e44@MSAPIRO>
References: <20111030213731.511626ca@pandora>
	<PC195201110301449540078fa7c9e44@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <20111031230941.58c2940e@pandora>

Hello, Mark,

Thank you for detailed reply.

I queried this with my isp provider who queried it with IS (Internet
Solutions, smtp server & backbone provider) who said that ',' should
work. That has me worried, did they misunderstand my query? I'll have to
adjust the regex given in the FAQ. Should I try this or is this so
unusual as to be unlikely?

I do have all 10 addresses now, just to be sure.

I'll do a complete FAQ on this saga when I'm done!

Anne


On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 14:49:54 -0700
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Anne Wainwright wrote:
> >
> >Sorry if this is a bit vague.
> 
> 
> And my guesses at what's going on may be a bit vague too.
> 
> 
> >I give an excerpt from a log file today. One of many with slightly
> >different wordings depending on which server was responding. Some
> >reporting me as 'exceeding the limit for bounced messages'.
> 
> 
> I don't know about 'exceeding the limit for bounced messages', but see
> below.
> 
> 
> >Oct 30 16:02:39 jason postfix/smtp[11547]: B6883E81A7:
> >to=<fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za at fables.co.za>,
> >relay=smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193]:25, conn_use=5, delay=45,
> >delays=0.02/0/0.24/45, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host
> >smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193] said: 550 Sorry, I don't accept bounce
> >messages with a invalid recipient. (in reply to RCPT TO command))
> 
> 
> The recipient here is
> fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za at fables.co.za which
> smtp.isdsl.net thinks is an invalid address. Apparently smtp.isdsl.net
> is one of the names of one of the IPs of default-mx.imaginet.co.za
> which is the MX for the fables.co.za domain.
> 
> 
> >(some of the bounce addresses _were_ valid, I checked one, got an
> >answer back from the addressee, but that could be a different issue)
> 
> 
> The address that smtp.isdsl.net thinks is invalid is
> fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za at fables.co.za, not
> dmorris at inext.co.za.
> 
> The most likely reason for this is that Postfix's main.cf on
> smtp.isdsl.net (if the MTA on smtp.isdsl.net is Postfix) is lacking
> 
> recipient_delimiter = +
> 
> This is required for VERP to work with the default delimiter (+). It
> tell Postfix that the recipient
> fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za is actually
> fables-list-bounces. Without this, Postfix attempts to deliver to the
> full VERPed recipient fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za which is
> invalid.
> 
> 
> >Verp is on as you can see. But on a run last week without verp we were
> >left in the same situation as described here.
> 
> 
> Then there's more to it than what I'm saying. Does smtp.isdsl.net (and
> the other relays) know how to deliver or relay to all 10 of the
> fables-list addresses including fables-list-bounces,
> fables-list-confirm, fables-list-request, fables-list-owner,
> fables-list-join, fables-list-leave, fables-list-subscribe and
> fables-list-unsubscribe?
> 
> 
> >There were a lot similar to this. I note that get_bounce_info shows no
> >bounce information when I ran it after the run.
> 
> 
> Because none of the bounce DSNs ever got delivered to Mailman.
> 
> 
> [...]
> >Further, since I am running this through a relay, the relevant email
> >account fables-list-bounces@ shows no activity whatsoever today. No
> >bounce mail passed through there.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you're saying, but I would expect something in the
> MTA log of smtp.isdsl.net at Oct 30 16:02:39 because there was at
> least a connect, a MAIL FROM and a RCPT TO from jason.
> 
> OTOH, if all you are saying is that no mail was relayed to
> fables-list-bounces@, that's because it was all rejected at the relay.
> 
> 
> >Not a doubt that I should have had a lot of bounces on this list which
> >has been dormant for months, and the log file did show plenty.
> >
> >Any idea where I might find the holdup? I suspect either the postfix
> >configuration or something to do with the smtp relay isp. I don't think
> >the bounces get back to the isp email account, are then not downloaded,
> >are then not processed. ???
> 
> 
> Right. They get rejected as undeliverable by smtp.isdsl.net, either
> because it doesn't know how to relay for LISTNAME-bounces at fables.co.za
> or it doesn't recognize that LISTNAME-bounces+XXX at fables.co.za should
> be relayed the same as LISTNAME-bounces at fables.co.za.
> 
> If it's the latter, and you don't control the MTA there and can't teach
> it that '+' is a valid separator between a local part and a suffix, it
> might recognize '-' in this role in which case see the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/D4CE>.
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Oct 31 23:15:29 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 15:15:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces not getting through for processing
In-Reply-To: <20111031230941.58c2940e@pandora>
Message-ID: <PC1952011103115152902188e1866b7@MSAPIRO>

Anne Wainwright wrote:
>
>I queried this with my isp provider who queried it with IS (Internet
>Solutions, smtp server & backbone provider) who said that ',' should
>work. That has me worried, did they misunderstand my query?


I'm sure they misunderstood. ',' is a delimiter between email
addresses, not a delimiter between a local part and a local part
suffix in a single address.


>I'll have to
>adjust the regex given in the FAQ. Should I try this or is this so
>unusual as to be unlikely?



>I do have all 10 addresses now, just to be sure.


OK. First make sure that the fables-list Bounce processing ->
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner setting is Yes.
	
Then send test messages via the relay server to
<fables-list-bounces at fables.co.za>,
<fables-list-bounces+xxx at fables.co.za> and
<fables-list-bounces-xxx at fables.co.za>. These messages can be very
simple, say both subject and body containing just 'test' or something
similar.

The message to <fables-list-bounces at fables.co.za> should definitely
result in an unrecognized bounce notice to the list owner. One or both
of the others may result in a rejection by the relay, but at least one
may get relayed to the Mailman server and result in an unrecognized
bounce notice to the list owner.

If none get through, there is still a problem with the relay. If only
the <fables-list-bounces at fables.co.za> message gets through, you can't
use VERP. If one of the others gets through, you can use VERP with the
corresponding delimiter.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From christine.cubillo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 23:36:45 2011
From: christine.cubillo at gmail.com (Christine Cubillo)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 15:36:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem sending multiple listserv commands via email
Message-ID: <CAJZ7osqREGyuU1W-TyPqTvNuCsBH+wU0pfz16bcH9GX5u+1MMg@mail.gmail.com>

I am having a problem sending multiple subscribe commands via email.
The first command in my list is always processed but the remaining
commands are always unprocessed or ignored.  Thanks in advance for any
help.


***Message Sent:


subscribe MyPassword nodigest address=email1 at someaddress.com
subscribe MyPassword nodigest address=email2 at someaddress.com
subscribe MyPassword nodigest address=email3 at someaddress.com


***Response Received:



- Results:
    Usage:

    unsubscribe [password] [address=<address>]
        Unsubscribe from the mailing list.  If given, your password must match
        your current password.  If omitted, a confirmation email will be sent
        to the unsubscribing address. If you wish to unsubscribe an address
        other than the address you sent this request from, you may specify
        `address=<address>' (no brackets around the email address, and no
        quotes!)


- Unprocessed:
subscribe MyPassword nodigest address=email2 at someaddress.com
subscribe MyPassword nodigest address=email3 at someaddress.com

- Done.