From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Wed Jun  1 00:39:22 2011
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 01:39:22 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers
In-Reply-To: <4DE55E93.4000406@msapiro.net>
References: <COL105-DS24D99E6F640B73516CA218FB7A0@phx.gbl>
	<4DE55E93.4000406@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <COL105-DS3FA6B6E35CE4D6987F4ABFB7A0@phx.gbl>

well thanks for the tip, but I'm sorry I didn't get it .. is it a good thing 
to stop mailman and postfix and reboot the servers every hour to free up 
recourses n start over?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 12:33 AM
To: Khalil Abbas
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers

On 5/31/2011 11:14 AM, Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
> is that a good thing I?m doing? for I can?t afford to upgrade the 
> hardware, is there a better solution? is there any side effects??


IIRC, it was Dolly Parton, a well known US country western singer who,
following a 'wardrobe failure' (pre Janet Jackson) on national TV, said
"You can't fit 10 pounds of mud in a five pound sack".

I think that applies here.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  1 00:58:19 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 15:58:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS3FA6B6E35CE4D6987F4ABFB7A0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL105-DS24D99E6F640B73516CA218FB7A0@phx.gbl>
	<4DE55E93.4000406@msapiro.net>
	<COL105-DS3FA6B6E35CE4D6987F4ABFB7A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4DE5728B.4080508@msapiro.net>

On 5/31/2011 3:39 PM, Khalil Abbas wrote:
> well thanks for the tip, but I'm sorry I didn't get it .. is it a good
> thing to stop mailman and postfix and reboot the servers every hour to
> free up recourses n start over?

"You can't fit ten pounds of mud in a five pound sack." I.e., you are
trying to do too much with too little. If you can't get more hardware or
reduce the size of or maybe the number of posts to your lists, you will
have problems. What you are doing is not good, but if you think it
allows you to avoid the real solution, you can keep doing it.

You are the only one who can determine if what you are doing is causing
lost and/or duplicated messages or perhaps other problems.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Wed Jun  1 09:18:55 2011
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 09:18:55 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS21783F2252A240295211B3FB7A0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL105-DS21783F2252A240295211B3FB7A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20110601071855.GB18790@charite.de>

* Khalil Abbas <khillo100 at hotmail.com>:
> hi, 
> 
> I have several vps servers with very limited resources running several large mailman lists, n these servers keep stopping from responding n sometimes mailq shows several errors like: too many open files in the system and not enough resourses ... etc.
> 
> so every hour I do the following:
> 
> mailmanctl stop
> postfix stop
> reboot
> 
> to free up the system resources, and eventually the mailq shows empty n the mail gets delivered..
> 
> is that a good thing I?m doing? for I can?t afford to upgrade the hardware, is there a better solution? is there any side effects??

It would be better to lower the default_process_limit in postfix

postconf -e "default_process_limit = 5"
postfix reload


-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Wed Jun  1 10:24:01 2011
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 11:24:01 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers
In-Reply-To: <4DE5728B.4080508@msapiro.net>
References: <COL105-DS24D99E6F640B73516CA218FB7A0@phx.gbl>
	<4DE55E93.4000406@msapiro.net>
	<COL105-DS3FA6B6E35CE4D6987F4ABFB7A0@phx.gbl>
	<4DE5728B.4080508@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <COL105-DS9EDF017ED49A50514BBEAFB7D0@phx.gbl>

mmmmm.. what if I did this:

create small lists instead of large ones, then schedule the same message to 
be sent every hour to a different list ? this way the servers will not 
halt..

what do u think?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 1:58 AM
To: Khalil Abbas
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers

On 5/31/2011 3:39 PM, Khalil Abbas wrote:
> well thanks for the tip, but I'm sorry I didn't get it .. is it a good
> thing to stop mailman and postfix and reboot the servers every hour to
> free up recourses n start over?

"You can't fit ten pounds of mud in a five pound sack." I.e., you are
trying to do too much with too little. If you can't get more hardware or
reduce the size of or maybe the number of posts to your lists, you will
have problems. What you are doing is not good, but if you think it
allows you to avoid the real solution, you can keep doing it.

You are the only one who can determine if what you are doing is causing
lost and/or duplicated messages or perhaps other problems.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mollatt at yoafrica.com  Wed Jun  1 12:31:00 2011
From: mollatt at yoafrica.com (Mollatt Ntini)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 12:31:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS9EDF017ED49A50514BBEAFB7D0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL105-DS24D99E6F640B73516CA218FB7A0@phx.gbl>	<4DE55E93.4000406@msapiro.net>	<COL105-DS3FA6B6E35CE4D6987F4ABFB7A0@phx.gbl>	<4DE5728B.4080508@msapiro.net>
	<COL105-DS9EDF017ED49A50514BBEAFB7D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4DE614E4.4040608@yoafrica.com>


On 6/1/2011 10:24 AM, Khalil Abbas wrote:
> mmmmm.. what if I did this:
>
> create small lists instead of large ones, then schedule the same 
> message to be sent every hour to a different list ? this way the 
> servers will not halt..
>
> what do u think?

I think Ralf is right. Lower the process limit, else your load will stay 
on high and you may lose or end up having duplicated messages. Maybe 
other problems too.

Think about it.

Molla.

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Wed Jun  1 13:04:55 2011
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 14:04:55 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS21783F2252A240295211B3FB7A0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL105-DS21783F2252A240295211B3FB7A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1106011404100.4931@data.home>

On Tue, 31 May 2011, Khalil Abbas wrote:

> I have several vps servers with very limited resources running several 
> large mailman lists, n these servers keep stopping from responding n 
> sometimes mailq shows several errors like: too many open files in the 
> system and not enough resourses ... etc.

How limited are these servers?  How big are these lists?

Geoff.


From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Wed Jun  1 10:56:59 2011
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 08:56:59 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting options via email - confirmation rather
	than password?
Message-ID: <19792E78AA12F14D9C250101F0DCA01BFADD29@ELROND.hodgsonfamily.org>

Hi,

Is there any way in Mailman to allow the users to set options (usually nomail style options) without the password argument?  The system would then send out a confirmation email which the user could reply or click a link in the email to confirm.  

We have a lot of users who subscribe by sending to list-subscribe at domain.com and replying to the confirmation mail, they don't go near the web interface :)

Thanks.
Andrew.

From will at ashworthconsulting.com  Wed Jun  1 06:44:57 2011
From: will at ashworthconsulting.com (William Ashworth)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 04:44:57 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP front-end for Mailman?
Message-ID: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF00EA9@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>

I've searched for a bit and perhaps nothing is available (or I'm typing the wrong searches).

A client of mine is looking to integrate more tightly to their Mailman list. There's an archive page, but we're trying to format it nicely for inclusion on their website so that it matches for members to see. I can see two possibilities right now...

1.  We write a custom PHP application to scrape and store the archive pages into a database to call later, however we want.

2.  We create an email address and subscribe it to the list. Any new messages will be checked via a PHP script we build and stored in the database, then we'll pull from our own archive format however we choose.

The only problem with #2 is that we lose 8 years of legacy emails that are already present in the archives. My best bet is to find some way to hook into the archives with PHP so that we can roll it into the rest of their complicated website. Looking at another development language other than PHP at this time would be a conflict of interest with the rest of their website applications.

I may be dreaming, but if there's some way to nightly export the data to XML from the archive or something, which we can then (also) nightly import that XML data into a MySQL database, then the sky's the limit...I simply don't know if there's a standardized way to access the archived information, as scraping is very messy.

I'm completely new to Mailman. Any assistance you can offer to help get my bearings straight would be greatly appreciated.

From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Wed Jun  1 16:29:37 2011
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman Admin)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 16:29:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP front-end for Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF00EA9@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
References: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF00EA9@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
Message-ID: <4DE64CD1.3000502@uni-konstanz.de>

Hi William Ashworth

On 06/01/2011 06:44 AM, William Ashworth wrote:
> I've searched for a bit and perhaps nothing is available (or I'm
> typing the wrong searches).
> 
> A client of mine is looking to integrate more tightly to their
> Mailman list. There's an archive page, but we're trying to format it
> nicely for inclusion on their website so that it matches for members
> to see. I can see two possibilities right now...
> 
> 1.  We write a custom PHP application to scrape and store the archive
> pages into a database to call later, however we want.
> 
> 2.  We create an email address and subscribe it to the list. Any new
> messages will be checked via a PHP script we build and stored in the
> database, then we'll pull from our own archive format however we
> choose.
> 
> The only problem with #2 is that we lose 8 years of legacy emails
> that are already present in the archives. My best bet is to find some
> way to hook into the archives with PHP so that we can roll it into
> the rest of their complicated website. Looking at another development
> language other than PHP at this time would be a conflict of interest
> with the rest of their website applications.
> 
> I may be dreaming, but if there's some way to nightly export the data
> to XML from the archive or something, which we can then (also)
> nightly import that XML data into a MySQL database, then the sky's
> the limit...I simply don't know if there's a standardized way to
> access the archived information, as scraping is very messy.
> 
> I'm completely new to Mailman. Any assistance you can offer to help
> get my bearings straight would be greatly appreciated.

There was an "Google Summer of Code" project last year, which tried to
produce better archive frontends.

Perhaps you should look there first:
1) threaded conversation demo
http://dev.systers.org/pipermail/testing/all/conversation-3.html

2) search demo
http://lists.priyakuber.in/cgi-bin/mailman/mailocate/search.py
With documentation
http://systers.org/systers-dev/doku.php/doumentation-priya
And code
http://github.com/beachbrake/Mailocate/tree/master/demo/


Kind regards,
Christian Mack


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Wed Jun  1 16:36:59 2011
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 17:36:59 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP front-end for Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF00EA9@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
References: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF00EA9@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1106011730570.4931@data.home>

On Wed, 1 Jun 2011, William Ashworth wrote:

> A client of mine is looking to integrate more tightly to their Mailman 
> list. There's an archive page, but we're trying to format it nicely for 
> inclusion on their website so that it matches for members to see. I can 
> see two possibilities right now...
>
> 1.  We write a custom PHP application to scrape and store the archive 
> pages into a database to call later, however we want.
>
> 2.  We create an email address and subscribe it to the list. Any new 
> messages will be checked via a PHP script we build and stored in the 
> database, then we'll pull from our own archive format however we choose.

Assuming you have access to the Mailman installation, you can avoid both 
of these somewhat cludgy steps and access the master archive directly.

Each mailing list keeps its archive as a big mbox-formatted file, which 
you could presumably parse.

I also recall the ability to handle custom archiving (i.e. you can get the 
system to archive messages in a way more useful to you).  Mark will 
probably have more to say about this possibility if it exists, assuming 
there's nothing in the FAQ already about this.

You may wish to get the old messages out of the mbox master and then use 
some kind of custom archive handler to handle new messages.

Mailman3 (still in development/alpha state) will probably make all this a 
lot easier.

Geoff.


From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Wed Jun  1 17:03:05 2011
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman Admin)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:03:05 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP front-end for Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF01B7B@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
References: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF00EA9@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
	<4DE64CD1.3000502@uni-konstanz.de>
	<204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF01B7B@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
Message-ID: <4DE654A9.3040009@uni-konstanz.de>

Hi William Ashworth

There is no database, but a file in mbox format.
You can find it under /${path_to_mailman}/archives/private/${listname}.mbox/

It contains all emails in order of arrival with all attachents.


Hope this helps a bit,
Christian Mack

On 06/01/2011 04:37 PM, William Ashworth wrote:
> 
> I'm attempting to learn more about the Mailman system in general as
> well. If there's some form of "database" that the system uses to
> store its archived message data, then I'm sure there's a way to build
> a script around it. If the only form of stored data is actually just
> static HTML files, then a scraper application may be the way to go.
> Thoughts?
> 
> I'm checking out the links you sent over. Much appreciated.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Mailman Admin
> [mailto:mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de]
> 
> On 06/01/2011 06:44 AM, William Ashworth wrote:
>> I've searched for a bit and perhaps nothing is available (or I'm 
>> typing the wrong searches).
>> 
>> A client of mine is looking to integrate more tightly to their
>> Mailman list. There's an archive page, but we're trying to format
>> it nicely for inclusion on their website so that it matches for
>> members to see. I can see two possibilities right now...
>> 
>> 1.  We write a custom PHP application to scrape and store the
>> archive pages into a database to call later, however we want.
>> 
>> 2.  We create an email address and subscribe it to the list. Any
>> new messages will be checked via a PHP script we build and stored
>> in the database, then we'll pull from our own archive format
>> however we choose.
>> 
>> The only problem with #2 is that we lose 8 years of legacy emails
>> that are already present in the archives. My best bet is to find
>> some way to hook into the archives with PHP so that we can roll it
>> into the rest of their complicated website. Looking at another
>> development language other than PHP at this time would be a
>> conflict of interest with the rest of their website applications.
>> 
>> I may be dreaming, but if there's some way to nightly export the
>> data to XML from the archive or something, which we can then (also)
>> nightly import that XML data into a MySQL database, then the sky's
>> the limit...I simply don't know if there's a standardized way to
>> access the archived information, as scraping is very messy.
>> 
>> I'm completely new to Mailman. Any assistance you can offer to help
>>  get my bearings straight would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> There was an "Google Summer of Code" project last year, which tried
> to produce better archive frontends.
> 
> Perhaps you should look there first: 1) threaded conversation demo 
> http://dev.systers.org/pipermail/testing/all/conversation-3.html
> 
> 2) search demo 
> http://lists.priyakuber.in/cgi-bin/mailman/mailocate/search.py With
> documentation 
> http://systers.org/systers-dev/doku.php/doumentation-priya And code 
> http://github.com/beachbrake/Mailocate/tree/master/demo/



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  1 17:27:09 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 08:27:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting options via email - confirmation rather
 than password?
In-Reply-To: <19792E78AA12F14D9C250101F0DCA01BFADD29@ELROND.hodgsonfamily.org>
References: <19792E78AA12F14D9C250101F0DCA01BFADD29@ELROND.hodgsonfamily.org>
Message-ID: <4DE65A4D.5000007@msapiro.net>

On 6/1/11 1:56 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is there any way in Mailman to allow the users to set options
> (usually nomail style options) without the password argument?  The
> system would then send out a confirmation email which the user could
> reply or click a link in the email to confirm.


This would require significant source modifications.


> We have a lot of users who subscribe by sending to
> list-subscribe at domain.com and replying to the confirmation mail, they
> don't go near the web interface :)


But they should get a welcome message with their password when they
subscribe, and they should get monthly password reminders, or if they
don't, they can request a reminder via the email 'password' command.

You could edit the list's welcome message to further emphasize that they
need their password to set options such as no mail and perhaps to
explain how to change their password.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Wed Jun  1 17:37:29 2011
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 15:37:29 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting options via email - confirmation rather
 than password?
In-Reply-To: <4DE65A4D.5000007@msapiro.net>
References: <19792E78AA12F14D9C250101F0DCA01BFADD29@ELROND.hodgsonfamily.org>,
	<4DE65A4D.5000007@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <19792E78AA12F14D9C250101F0DCA01BFADEE0@ELROND.hodgsonfamily.org>

________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: 01 June 2011 16:27
To: Andrew Hodgson
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting options via email - confirmation rather than password?

>On 6/1/11 1:56 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Is there any way in Mailman to allow the users to set options
>> (usually nomail style options) without the password argument?  The
>> system would then send out a confirmation email which the user could
>> reply or click a link in the email to confirm.


>This would require significant source modifications.

That's all the information I needed, thanks for that.

Andrew.

From cpz at tuunq.com  Wed Jun  1 17:40:39 2011
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 08:40:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers
In-Reply-To: <4DE614E4.4040608@yoafrica.com>
References: <COL105-DS24D99E6F640B73516CA218FB7A0@phx.gbl>	<4DE55E93.4000406@msapiro.net>	<COL105-DS3FA6B6E35CE4D6987F4ABFB7A0@phx.gbl>	<4DE5728B.4080508@msapiro.net><COL105-DS9EDF017ED49A50514BBEAFB7D0@phx.gbl>
	<4DE614E4.4040608@yoafrica.com>
Message-ID: <4DE65D77.1080208@tuunq.com>

On 6/1/2011 3:31 AM, Mollatt Ntini wrote:

> I think Ralf is right. Lower the process limit, else your load will stay on
> high and you may lose or end up having duplicated messages. Maybe other
> problems too.

Defintely.  If you don't have the resources for instant use, you need to get 
them or use them more gradually. Lowering the postfix process count will 
help that. IIRC, you can twiddle mailman to attempt fewer message per MTA 
connection. You can remove other loads from the system (what else is it 
doing?). Rebooting is not the answer, and really unnecessary if you 
stop/start the big processes.

z!

From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Wed Jun  1 18:29:02 2011
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 12:29:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP front-end for Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF00EA9@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
References: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF00EA9@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
Message-ID: <4DE668CE.5040908@Damon-Family.org>

On 6/1/11 12:44 AM, William Ashworth wrote:
> I've searched for a bit and perhaps nothing is available (or I'm typing the wrong searches).
>
> A client of mine is looking to integrate more tightly to their Mailman list. There's an archive page, but we're trying to format it nicely for inclusion on their website so that it matches for members to see. I can see two possibilities right now...
>
> 1.  We write a custom PHP application to scrape and store the archive pages into a database to call later, however we want.
>
> 2.  We create an email address and subscribe it to the list. Any new messages will be checked via a PHP script we build and stored in the database, then we'll pull from our own archive format however we choose.
>
> The only problem with #2 is that we lose 8 years of legacy emails that are already present in the archives. My best bet is to find some way to hook into the archives with PHP so that we can roll it into the rest of their complicated website. Looking at another development language other than PHP at this time would be a conflict of interest with the rest of their website applications.
>
> I may be dreaming, but if there's some way to nightly export the data to XML from the archive or something, which we can then (also) nightly import that XML data into a MySQL database, then the sky's the limit...I simply don't know if there's a standardized way to access the archived information, as scraping is very messy.
>
> I'm completely new to Mailman. Any assistance you can offer to help get my bearings straight would be greatly appreciated.
I have done a bit of both for some applications. For #1, I use the mbox 
file instead of scraping the pages though. This result is then put into 
a database, and then new messages are added as things go. Since mbox is 
very close to the mail format, you can use a lot of common code.

-- 
Richard Damon


From CNulk at scu.edu  Wed Jun  1 19:01:03 2011
From: CNulk at scu.edu (C Nulk)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 10:01:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP front-end for Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF00EA9@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
References: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF00EA9@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
Message-ID: <4DE6704F.2030901@scu.edu>

Hello,

I will drop in my two cents worth here.  At my location, we needed a way
to manage and age out old messages from the archives.  The way the
archives are presented aren't really an issue here.  However, to do the
management, I used the PHP IMAP interface to access the mbox files.
With the interface, you can delete messages, pull out individual
messages, plus much more.  Using the PHP IMAP interface may assist you
in customizing how the archives are integrated into your customers
website.  A better solution would be to use Python and an IMAP interface
for Python to do the work since you can use Mailman's list locks (Mark
Sapiro recommended this method to me but my Python skills are a bit weak).

Good Luck,
Chris

On 5/31/2011 9:44 PM, William Ashworth wrote:
> I've searched for a bit and perhaps nothing is available (or I'm typing the wrong searches).
>
> A client of mine is looking to integrate more tightly to their Mailman list. There's an archive page, but we're trying to format it nicely for inclusion on their website so that it matches for members to see. I can see two possibilities right now...
>
> 1.  We write a custom PHP application to scrape and store the archive pages into a database to call later, however we want.
>
> 2.  We create an email address and subscribe it to the list. Any new messages will be checked via a PHP script we build and stored in the database, then we'll pull from our own archive format however we choose.
>
> The only problem with #2 is that we lose 8 years of legacy emails that are already present in the archives. My best bet is to find some way to hook into the archives with PHP so that we can roll it into the rest of their complicated website. Looking at another development language other than PHP at this time would be a conflict of interest with the rest of their website applications.
>
> I may be dreaming, but if there's some way to nightly export the data to XML from the archive or something, which we can then (also) nightly import that XML data into a MySQL database, then the sky's the limit...I simply don't know if there's a standardized way to access the archived information, as scraping is very messy.
>
> I'm completely new to Mailman. Any assistance you can offer to help get my bearings straight would be greatly appreciated.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cnulk%40scu.edu

From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Wed Jun  1 19:54:05 2011
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 13:54:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP front-end for Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF00EA9@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
References: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF00EA9@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
Message-ID: <4DE67CBD.2060502@wingfoot.org>

On 6/1/11 12:44 AM, William Ashworth wrote:
> I've searched for a bit and perhaps nothing is available (or I'm
> typing the wrong searches).


I'd really love something to sit on top of (or behind) Mailman that
would give me:

Authenticated file storage
Group calendar
Group database

Yes, I know. "Mailman is not YahooGroups." However, I get a *lot* of
requests for this stuff. For now, I use an .htaccess file with a
corresponding htpasswd file which pulls the logins/passwords out of the
Mailman list membership. It requires manual massaging (like if someone
wanted a file deleted, for instance), so it's not exactly an ideal
situation, but... there's nothing else I've seen/heard of for Mailman
that does similar functionality.

When 3.0 comes out, I know that is going to break the scripts I use
(from
http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Setting+up+Web+access+using+MM+list+passwords+-+for+Apache)..
or at least that's what I recall from hearing discussions of changes in
3.0... if I'm wrong, I'm happy to admit it!

But it would *seriously* be awesome if Mailman could have, I dunno,
"plugins" for the lack of a better word, where you *could* extend
Mailman into more of a YG arena if you choose to.

Or, has someone else out there managed to come up with some kind of
frontend/backend/addon for MM that lets you have web content only for
list-members?

Best,
--Glenn

From barry at list.org  Wed Jun  1 20:37:10 2011
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 14:37:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP front-end for Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <4DE67CBD.2060502@wingfoot.org>
References: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF00EA9@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
	<4DE67CBD.2060502@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <20110601143710.4608f953@neurotica.wooz.org>

On Jun 01, 2011, at 01:54 PM, Glenn Sieb wrote:

>But it would *seriously* be awesome if Mailman could have, I dunno, "plugins"
>for the lack of a better word, where you *could* extend Mailman into more of
>a YG arena if you choose to.

I agree that this would be very cool.  I'd love to see MM3 as part of an open
source {Yahoo!,Google}Groups alternative.  I kind of see it as MM3 being the
mailing list + archiving component of a bigger system, rather than pulling
calendaring into Mailman, but I think there could some interesting discussions
about this (probably best on the -developers list though).

-Barry
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From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Jun  2 07:23:45 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 05:23:45 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

I ran out of disk space so I added 400gb to /var/lib/mailman2 and moved the archives with,

cd /var/lib/mailman ; tar cf - . |(cd  /var/lib/mailman2 tar xf -)

So permissions should have stayed OK....then I did,

unmount ~mailman2 and mounted it as ~mailman, permissions look right but I seem to be getting this error now,


"Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman"

doh?

any ideas?

regards

From hostmaster at uuism.net  Thu Jun  2 05:51:23 2011
From: hostmaster at uuism.net (UUN Hostmaster)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:51:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Program to Change List Real Name
Message-ID: <f8a2d0444e7e56f8ceea4fa8f95e3eff.squirrel@www.uuism.net>

Mailman Folks,

Who do I convert these manual instructions into a program?

         bin/withlist bar
         >>> m.real_name='bar'
         >>> m.Lock()
         >>> m.Save()
         >>> m.Unlock()
         >>> ^D


Thanks.

Jim





From shatter at shatter.ws  Wed Jun  1 15:50:27 2011
From: shatter at shatter.ws (Maxime Longuepee)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 09:50:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman handling incomming mail
Message-ID: <4DE643A3.4080305@shatter.ws>

Hi!

I have mailman installed on my freebsd server. I am running 
postfix+dovecot with mysql support for my mail server. Everything is 
working perfectly except mailman gives error on incomming mail. Here is 
the error (I replaced my real domain name in the error message with 
mydomain.org):

*This is the mail system at host mail.mydomain.org.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to
one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own
text from the attached returned message.

                   The mail system

<"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"@mail.mydomain.org> (expanded
    from <mailman at mail.mydomain.org>): unknown user:
    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"*




Can someone help me please!!

-- Maxime Longuepee

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  2 16:34:17 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 07:34:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>

On 6/1/11 10:23 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> 
> "Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman"


mailmanctl can't find the file /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  2 16:40:43 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 07:40:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman handling incomming mail
In-Reply-To: <4DE643A3.4080305@shatter.ws>
References: <4DE643A3.4080305@shatter.ws>
Message-ID: <4DE7A0EB.7020901@msapiro.net>

On 6/1/11 6:50 AM, Maxime Longuepee wrote:
> 
>                   The mail system
> 
> <"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"@mail.mydomain.org>
> (expanded
>    from <mailman at mail.mydomain.org>): unknown user:
>    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"*


Postfix is apparently trying to deliver to the alias via a transport
that doesn't do pipe delivery, i.e. some transport other than 'local'.

We need to see the output from 'postconf -n' to say more.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From hostmaster at uuism.net  Thu Jun  2 17:00:59 2011
From: hostmaster at uuism.net (UUN Hostmaster)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 10:00:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot Lock Mailing Lists
Message-ID: <615a425c62ae846f8c22138cc2742c6c.squirrel@www.uuism.net>

Mailman Gurus,

I'm running Mailman 2.1.14 CPanel Version.

When I try to update a mailing list with config_list or with_list, the
program hangs.

# ../bin/withlist fuustl-coffeehourchat_lists.firstuustlouis.org
Loading list fuustl-coffeehourchat_lists.firstuustlouis.org (unlocked)
The variable `m' is the fuustl-coffeehourchat_lists.firstuustlouis.org
MailList instance
>>> m.real_name = 'fuustl-coffeehourchat'
>>> m.Lock()

[never returns]

I tried retarting Mailman.

How do I get Mailman to allow updates?

Jim


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  2 17:04:37 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 08:04:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Program to Change List Real Name
In-Reply-To: <f8a2d0444e7e56f8ceea4fa8f95e3eff.squirrel@www.uuism.net>
References: <f8a2d0444e7e56f8ceea4fa8f95e3eff.squirrel@www.uuism.net>
Message-ID: <4DE7A685.6020905@msapiro.net>

On 6/1/11 8:51 PM, UUN Hostmaster wrote:
> Mailman Folks,
> 
> Who do I convert these manual instructions into a program?
> 
>          bin/withlist bar
>          >>> m.real_name='bar'
>          >>> m.Lock()
>          >>> m.Save()
>          >>> m.Unlock()
>          >>> ^D

First of all, that is wrong. the m.Lock() will reload the list object
and undo the m.real_name='bar'. Just add -l to the withlist command and
don't do either m.Lock() or m.Unlock().

To make a script, put something like

def rename_list(mlist):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    mlist.real_name = mlist.internal_name()
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()

in a file named rename_list.py in Mailman's bin/ directory and then you
can run

bin/withlist -r rename_list bar

However, if this is cPanel there may be problems with the above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  2 17:17:31 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 08:17:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot Lock Mailing Lists
In-Reply-To: <615a425c62ae846f8c22138cc2742c6c.squirrel@www.uuism.net>
References: <615a425c62ae846f8c22138cc2742c6c.squirrel@www.uuism.net>
Message-ID: <4DE7A98B.9090901@msapiro.net>

On 6/2/11 8:00 AM, UUN Hostmaster wrote:
> 
> # ../bin/withlist fuustl-coffeehourchat_lists.firstuustlouis.org
> Loading list fuustl-coffeehourchat_lists.firstuustlouis.org (unlocked)
> The variable `m' is the fuustl-coffeehourchat_lists.firstuustlouis.org
> MailList instance
>>>> m.real_name = 'fuustl-coffeehourchat'
>>>> m.Lock()
> 
> [never returns]


Lock() never returns because the list is already locked by another
(possibly defunct) process. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/noA9>
for what to do.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From shatter at shatter.ws  Thu Jun  2 17:13:55 2011
From: shatter at shatter.ws (Maxime Longuepee)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 11:13:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman handling incomming mail
In-Reply-To: <4DE7A0EB.7020901@msapiro.net>
References: <4DE643A3.4080305@shatter.ws> <4DE7A0EB.7020901@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <64aba6a9d714e1f7dce7e5495e9f04a7@mail.walknet.org>


Hi Mark!

Thanks for your reply!

Here is the output of postconf -n:

address_verify_map = btree:/var/spool/postfix/address_verify
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
command_directory = /usr/local/sbin
config_directory = /usr/local/etc/postfix
daemon_directory = /usr/local/libexec/postfix
data_directory = /var/spool/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
disable_vrfy_command = yes
html_directory = no
inet_interfaces = $myhostname, localhost
invalid_hostname_reject_code = 450
mail_owner = postfix
mailq_path = /usr/local/bin/mailq
manpage_directory = /usr/local/man
maps_rbl_reject_code = 450
mydestination = mail.mydomain.org, localhost.mydomain.org, localhost, mail
myhostname = mail.mydomain.org
mynetworks = 127.0.0.1, mail.mydomain.org
mynetworks_style = host
myorigin = mail.mydomain.org
newaliases_path = /usr/local/bin/newaliases
non_fqdn_reject_code = 450
owner_request_special = no
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = no
recipient_delimiter = +
sample_directory = /usr/local/etc/postfix
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail
setgid_group = maildrop
smtp_tls_cert_file = /etc/ssl/server.crt
smtp_tls_key_file = /etc/ssl/server.key
smtp_tls_security_level = may
smtp_tls_session_cache_database =
btree:/var/spool/postfix/smtp_tls_session_cache
smtpd_data_restrictions = reject_unauth_pipelining,        
reject_multi_recipient_bounce,        permit
smtpd_helo_required = yes
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks       
permit_sasl_authenticated        permit_tls_clientcerts       
reject_unauth_destination        reject_invalid_helo_hostname       
reject_non_fqdn_sender        reject_non_fqdn_recipient       
reject_rbl_client cbl.abuseat.org        reject_rbl_client list.dsbl.org   
    reject_rbl_client opm.blitzed.org        reject_rbl_client
sbl.spamhaus.org        reject_rbl_client bl.spamcop.net       
reject_rbl_client dnsbl.sorbs.net=127.0.0.2        reject_rbl_client
dnsbl.sorbs.net=127.0.0.3        reject_rbl_client
dnsbl.sorbs.net=127.0.0.4        reject_rbl_client
dnsbl.sorbs.net=127.0.0.5        reject_rbl_client
dnsbl.sorbs.net=127.0.0.7        reject_rbl_client
dnsbl.sorbs.net=127.0.0.9        reject_rbl_client
dnsbl.sorbs.net=127.0.0.11        reject_rbl_client
dnsbl.sorbs.net=127.0.0.12
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_path = private/auth
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
smtpd_sasl_type = dovecot
smtpd_tls_ask_ccert = yes
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/ssl/server.crt
smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/ssl/server.key
smtpd_tls_loglevel = 1
smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
smtpd_tls_security_level = may
smtpd_tls_session_cache_database =
btree:/var/spool/postfix/smtpd_tls_session_cache
tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
virtual_alias_maps =
mysql:$config_directory/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf,hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
virtual_gid_maps = static:6
virtual_mailbox_base = /usr/vmail
virtual_mailbox_domains =
mysql:$config_directory/mysql_virtual_domains_maps.cf
virtual_mailbox_maps =
mysql:$config_directory/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf
virtual_minimum_uid = 143
virtual_transport = dovecot
virtual_uid_maps = static:143

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 07:40:43 -0700, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 6/1/11 6:50 AM, Maxime Longuepee wrote:
>>
>>                   The mail system
>>
>> <"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"@mail.mydomain.org>
>> (expanded
>>    from <mailman at mail.mydomain.org>): unknown user:
>>    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"*
> 
> 
> Postfix is apparently trying to deliver to the alias via a transport
> that doesn't do pipe delivery, i.e. some transport other than 'local'.
> 
> We need to see the output from 'postconf -n' to say more.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  2 17:48:26 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 08:48:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman handling incomming mail
In-Reply-To: <64aba6a9d714e1f7dce7e5495e9f04a7@mail.walknet.org>
References: <4DE643A3.4080305@shatter.ws> <4DE7A0EB.7020901@msapiro.net>
	<64aba6a9d714e1f7dce7e5495e9f04a7@mail.walknet.org>
Message-ID: <4DE7B0CA.7010306@msapiro.net>

On 6/2/11 8:13 AM, Maxime Longuepee wrote:
> 
> Here is the output of postconf -n:
> 
[...]
> virtual_alias_maps =
> mysql:$config_directory/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf,hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases


This is wrong. You need to add hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases to
alias_maps, not to virtual_alias_maps. Probably something like

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

Then you need

virtual_alias_maps =
mysql:$config_directory/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf,hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

and if it isn't already there, you need

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['mail.mydomain.org']

in mm_cfg.py, and if that wasn't already there, you need to run
Mailman's bin/genaliases to create the virtual-mailman* files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Jun  2 21:55:33 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 19:55:33 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

So the file is there.....how to I get it to "find it" again....?

Also I suspect its the same with all the lists.....

regards
________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Friday, 3 June 2011 2:34 a.m.
To: Steven Jones
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman

On 6/1/11 10:23 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
>
> "Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman"


mailmanctl can't find the file /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  2 22:54:02 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 13:54:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <4DE7F86A.60404@msapiro.net>

On 6/2/2011 12:55 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> So the file is there.....how to I get it to "find it" again....?
> 
> Also I suspect its the same with all the lists.....

Probably it is all lists.

The first thing mailmanctl does is set its user and group to those of
Mailman. So there are two possibilities. Either 'mailman' doesn't have
sufficient access to even 'see' /var/lib/mailman/lists/*/config.pck.

The permissions and ownership on /var/lib/mailman should be

drwxrwsr-x   mailman mailman

check that, and if that doesn't solve your issue, run Mailman's
bin/check_perms -f as root.

If that still doesn't solve it, look at Mailman/Defaults.py for the
definition of PREFIX and VAR_PREFIX to ensure they are what you think
they are.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hostmaster at uuism.net  Thu Jun  2 23:13:13 2011
From: hostmaster at uuism.net (UUN Hostmaster)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 16:13:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Program to Change List Real Name
In-Reply-To: <4DE7A685.6020905@msapiro.net>
References: <f8a2d0444e7e56f8ceea4fa8f95e3eff.squirrel@www.uuism.net>
	<4DE7A685.6020905@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <65766603a5ba5c41eb09716dc0cc0eb2.squirrel@www.uuism.net>

> On 6/1/11 8:51 PM, UUN Hostmaster wrote:
>> Mailman Folks,
>>
>> Who do I convert these manual instructions into a program?
>>
>>          bin/withlist bar
>>          >>> m.real_name='bar'
>>          >>> m.Lock()
>>          >>> m.Save()
>>          >>> m.Unlock()
>>          >>> ^D
>
> First of all, that is wrong. the m.Lock() will reload the list object
> and undo the m.real_name='bar'. Just add -l to the withlist command and
> don't do either m.Lock() or m.Unlock().
>
> To make a script, put something like
>
> def rename_list(mlist):
>     if not mlist.Locked():
>         mlist.Lock()
>     mlist.real_name = mlist.internal_name()
>     mlist.Save()
>     mlist.Unlock()
>
> in a file named rename_list.py in Mailman's bin/ directory and then you
> can run
>
> bin/withlist -r rename_list bar
>
> However, if this is cPanel there may be problems with the above.

Mark,

Thank you.

What kinds of problems do you anticipate with cPanel Mailman?

I looked at the config_list of a CPanel Mailman mailing list:
list-name_domain-name.tld.  It appears like a normal Mailing installation
except that the real_name = "list-name"   Otherwise, the folders and files
are named list-name_domain-name.tld

I am migrating some Majordomo Mailing lists to a CPanel Mailman installation.

Thanks.

Jim




Jim


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  2 23:49:05 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 14:49:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Program to Change List Real Name
In-Reply-To: <65766603a5ba5c41eb09716dc0cc0eb2.squirrel@www.uuism.net>
References: <f8a2d0444e7e56f8ceea4fa8f95e3eff.squirrel@www.uuism.net>
	<4DE7A685.6020905@msapiro.net>
	<65766603a5ba5c41eb09716dc0cc0eb2.squirrel@www.uuism.net>
Message-ID: <4DE80551.7030200@msapiro.net>

On 6/2/2011 2:13 PM, UUN Hostmaster wrote:

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> However, if this is cPanel there may be problems with the above.

> What kinds of problems do you anticipate with cPanel Mailman?
> 
> I looked at the config_list of a CPanel Mailman mailing list:
> list-name_domain-name.tld.  It appears like a normal Mailing installation
> except that the real_name = "list-name"   Otherwise, the folders and files
> are named list-name_domain-name.tld


That's the point. The script I posted with

   mlist.real_name = mlist.internal_name()

will set real_name to the list-name_domain-name.tld name rather than
just list-name.


> I am migrating some Majordomo Mailing lists to a CPanel Mailman installation.


So what are you really trying to accomplish? If you create the lists
with cPanel's list create process (as opposed to Mailman's bin/newlist)
they should get the appropriate real_name.

If you explain in more detail what you are doing and what needs to be
fixed about the lists' real_name, I can give you a script to do it.

If the issue is that you have lists with real_name =
list-name_example.com and you want to change real_name to just
list-name, put the following script in
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/rename_list.py

def rename_list(mlist):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    listfullname = mlist.internal_name()
    last_underscore = listfullname.rfind('_');
    if last_underscore > 0:
        listname = listfullname[0:last_underscore]
    else:
        listname = listfullname
    mlist.real_name = listname
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()

You can then run that with

bin/withlist -r rename_list foo_example.com

to do the foo_example.com list or

bin/withlist -r rename_list -a

to do all lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Fri Jun  3 00:58:26 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 22:58:26 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <4DE7F86A.60404@msapiro.net>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE7F86A.60404@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30AF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Fixed the first one.....tried restarting, same message.....did the second with -f which fixed ownerships (I have a case into Red Hat on this...
but it still wont start.

PREFIX  = /usr/lib/mailman

VAR_PREFIX = /var/lib/mailman

I think these are correct....

regards


________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Friday, 3 June 2011 8:54 a.m.
To: Steven Jones
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman

On 6/2/2011 12:55 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> So the file is there.....how to I get it to "find it" again....?
>
> Also I suspect its the same with all the lists.....

Probably it is all lists.

The first thing mailmanctl does is set its user and group to those of
Mailman. So there are two possibilities. Either 'mailman' doesn't have
sufficient access to even 'see' /var/lib/mailman/lists/*/config.pck.

The permissions and ownership on /var/lib/mailman should be

drwxrwsr-x   mailman mailman

check that, and if that doesn't solve your issue, run Mailman's
bin/check_perms -f as root.

If that still doesn't solve it, look at Mailman/Defaults.py for the
definition of PREFIX and VAR_PREFIX to ensure they are what you think
they are.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Fri Jun  3 01:11:55 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 23:11:55 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30AF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE7F86A.60404@msapiro.net>,
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30AF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30C8@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

To add mailman will not start, still.

regards
________________________________________
From: mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org [mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org] on behalf of Steven Jones [Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz]
Sent: Friday, 3 June 2011 10:58 a.m.
To: Mark Sapiro
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman

Fixed the first one.....tried restarting, same message.....did the second with -f which fixed ownerships (I have a case into Red Hat on this...
but it still wont start.

PREFIX  = /usr/lib/mailman

VAR_PREFIX = /var/lib/mailman

I think these are correct....

regards


________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Friday, 3 June 2011 8:54 a.m.
To: Steven Jones
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman

On 6/2/2011 12:55 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> So the file is there.....how to I get it to "find it" again....?
>
> Also I suspect its the same with all the lists.....

Probably it is all lists.

The first thing mailmanctl does is set its user and group to those of
Mailman. So there are two possibilities. Either 'mailman' doesn't have
sufficient access to even 'see' /var/lib/mailman/lists/*/config.pck.

The permissions and ownership on /var/lib/mailman should be

drwxrwsr-x   mailman mailman

check that, and if that doesn't solve your issue, run Mailman's
bin/check_perms -f as root.

If that still doesn't solve it, look at Mailman/Defaults.py for the
definition of PREFIX and VAR_PREFIX to ensure they are what you think
they are.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steven.jones%40vuw.ac.nz

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun  3 01:12:53 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 16:12:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30AF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE7F86A.60404@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30AF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <4DE818F5.2090307@msapiro.net>

On 6/2/2011 3:58 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> Fixed the first one.....tried restarting, same message.....did the second with -f which fixed ownerships (I have a case into Red Hat on this...
> but it still wont start.
> 
> PREFIX  = /usr/lib/mailman
> 
> VAR_PREFIX = /var/lib/mailman
> 
> I think these are correct....


What does

sudo -u mailman ls -l /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck

do?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Fri Jun  3 01:54:13 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 23:54:13 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <4DE818F5.2090307@msapiro.net>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE7F86A.60404@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30AF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE818F5.2090307@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3101@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

-rw-rw----. 1 mailman mailman   3902 Jun  2 12:00  /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck
________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Friday, 3 June 2011 11:12 a.m.
To: Steven Jones
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman

On 6/2/2011 3:58 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> Fixed the first one.....tried restarting, same message.....did the second with -f which fixed ownerships (I have a case into Red Hat on this...
> but it still wont start.
>
> PREFIX  = /usr/lib/mailman
>
> VAR_PREFIX = /var/lib/mailman
>
> I think these are correct....


What does

sudo -u mailman ls -l /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck

do?

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun  3 02:03:06 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 17:03:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3101@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE7F86A.60404@msapiro.net>	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30AF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE818F5.2090307@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3101@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <4DE824BA.5090000@msapiro.net>

On 6/2/2011 4:54 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> -rw-rw----. 1 mailman mailman   3902 Jun  2 12:00  /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck

So it looks like the 'mailman' user can access the config.pck.

So, how are you starting Mailman. Are you running

 /var/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start

Or something like

 service mailman start

If the latter, what does the /etc/init.d/mailman script do?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Fri Jun  3 03:03:26 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 01:03:26 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <4DE824BA.5090000@msapiro.net>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE7F86A.60404@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30AF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE818F5.2090307@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3101@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE824BA.5090000@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E312F@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

Service mailman restart

Here is the startup script,

=========================
#!/bin/sh
#
# mailman    This shell script starts and stops GNU Mailman.
#
# Copyright (C) 2001-2003 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301, USA.
#
# Copy this file to /etc/init.d/ (or /etc/rc.d/init.d/ depending on
# your system) and activate it as such:
#
# On Debian, type "update-rc.d mailman defaults"
# On RedHat, and derivatives, install with "chkconfig --add mailman"
#
# chkconfig: - 98 12
# description: Mailman is the GNU Mailing List Manager, a program that \
#              manages electronic mail discussion groups.  For more \
#              on GNU Mailman see http://www.list.org
# processname: mailmanctl
# config: /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
# pidfile: /var/run/mailman/master-qrunner.pid
### BEGIN INIT INFO
# Provides: mailman
# Required-Start: $local_fs $remote_fs $network $named
# Should-Start: httpd
# Required-Stop: $local_fs $remote_fs $network
# Default-Stop: 0 1 3 4 5 6
# Short-Description: start and stop Mailman
# Description: Mailman is the GNU mailing list manager.
### END INIT INFO

MAILMANHOME=/usr/lib/mailman
MAILMANCTL=$MAILMANHOME/bin/mailmanctl

# We used to install the mailman cron jobs when the mailman rpm was
# installed, irrespective of whether mailman was actually being
# run. Although the cron jobs didn't create any problems if someone
# wasn't running mailman some users complained about the cron log file
# filling up, resource usage, and power consumption since systems
# wouldn't really idle. It really only makes sense to run the mailman
# cron jobs if the mailman service is turned on and not just merely
# having the rpm installed. This init.d script is an obvious place to
# install or remove the cron jobs based on the service being enabled
# or not.

SRC_CRON_SCRIPT=$MAILMANHOME/cron/crontab.in
DST_CRON_SCRIPT=/etc/cron.d/mailman

function InstallCron()
{
    install -m644 -o root -g root $SRC_CRON_SCRIPT $DST_CRON_SCRIPT
}

function RemoveCron()
{
cat > $DST_CRON_SCRIPT <<EOF
# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE!
#
# Contents of this file managed by /etc/init.d/mailman
# Master copy is /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in
# Consult that file for documentation
EOF
}

# Source function library.
. /etc/rc.d/init.d/functions

RETVAL=0
prog="mailman"

function start()
{
    echo -n $"Starting $prog: "
    mailman-update-cfg
    daemon $MAILMANCTL -s -q start
    RETVAL=$?
    if [ $RETVAL -eq 0 ]
    then
        touch /var/lock/subsys/$prog
        InstallCron
    else
        RETVAL=6
    fi
    echo
    return $RETVAL
}

function stop()
{
if [ -f /var/lock/subsys/$prog ]
    then
    echo -n $"Shutting down $prog: "
    mailman-update-cfg
    daemon $MAILMANCTL -q stop
    RETVAL=$?
    if [ $RETVAL -eq 0 ]
    then
        rm -f /var/lock/subsys/$prog
        RemoveCron
    fi
    echo
    else
    echo $"$prog already stopped."
    RETVAL=0
    fi
    return $RETVAL
}

function restart()
{
    stop
    start
    RETVAL=$?
    return $RETVAL
}

case "$1" in
'start')
    start
    RETVAL=$?
    ;;

'stop')
    stop
    RETVAL=$?
    ;;

'restart'|'force-reload')
    restart
    RETVAL=$?
    ;;

'condrestart'|'try-restart')
    $MAILMANCTL -q -u status
    retval=$?
    if [ $retval -eq 0 ]
    then
        restart
       RETVAL=$?
    fi
    ;;

'status')
    output=$($MAILMANCTL -u status)
    RETVAL=$?
    if [ $RETVAL -eq 3 -a -f /var/lock/subsys/$prog ]
    then
        echo $"$prog dead but subsys locked"
        RETVAL=2
    else
        echo $output
    fi
    ;;

*)
    echo $"Usage: $prog {start|stop|restart|force-reload|condrestart|try-restart|status}"
    RETVAL=2
    ;;

esac
exit $RETVAL
=========================

regards










________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Friday, 3 June 2011 12:03 p.m.
To: Steven Jones
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman

On 6/2/2011 4:54 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> -rw-rw----. 1 mailman mailman   3902 Jun  2 12:00  /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck

So it looks like the 'mailman' user can access the config.pck.

So, how are you starting Mailman. Are you running

 /var/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start

Or something like

 service mailman start

If the latter, what does the /etc/init.d/mailman script do?

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun  3 03:08:16 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 18:08:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E312F@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE7F86A.60404@msapiro.net>	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30AF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE818F5.2090307@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3101@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE824BA.5090000@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E312F@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <4DE83400.9090203@msapiro.net>

On 6/2/2011 6:03 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> 
> Here is the startup script,
[...]
> 
> MAILMANHOME=/usr/lib/mailman
> MAILMANCTL=$MAILMANHOME/bin/mailmanctl


ASo your script is starting /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl rather than
/var/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl.

Presumably the insatllation in /usr/lib/mailman has no lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hostmaster at uuism.net  Fri Jun  3 03:22:31 2011
From: hostmaster at uuism.net (UUN Hostmaster)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 20:22:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Program to Change List Real Name
In-Reply-To: <4DE80551.7030200@msapiro.net>
References: <f8a2d0444e7e56f8ceea4fa8f95e3eff.squirrel@www.uuism.net>
	<4DE7A685.6020905@msapiro.net>
	<65766603a5ba5c41eb09716dc0cc0eb2.squirrel@www.uuism.net>
	<4DE80551.7030200@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <ab0b09df0fade0250bff933e70cc1349.squirrel@www.uuism.net>

> On 6/2/2011 2:13 PM, UUN Hostmaster wrote:
>
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> I am migrating some Majordomo Mailing lists to a CPanel Mailman
>> installation.
>
>
> So what are you really trying to accomplish? If you create the lists
> with cPanel's list create process (as opposed to Mailman's bin/newlist)
> they should get the appropriate real_name.

Mark,

I can't use the cPanel Web Interface because I have too many mailing lists
to create.  If I use the Mailman newlist command to create
list-name_domain-name.tld, I need to change the real_name from
list-name_domain-name.tld to list-name.  Also, I have to create my own
entries in the /etc/valiases/domain-name.tld file.

I found a program that will extract the needed information from the
Majordomo files:  majordomo2mailman.pl.  I had to modify parts of the
program to add the real_name and host_name, so I could create the
list-name_domain-name.tld for the newlist command.

I modified your python program to fit my needs:

def rename_list(mlist):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    mlist.real_name = mlist.internal_name().split("_" + mlist.host_name)[0]
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()

It works.

Jim







From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Fri Jun  3 03:44:16 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 01:44:16 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <4DE83400.9090203@msapiro.net>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE7F86A.60404@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30AF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE818F5.2090307@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3101@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE824BA.5090000@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E312F@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE83400.9090203@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3154@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Yes, the lists themselves are under /var.....the mailman binaries are under /usr

regards
________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Friday, 3 June 2011 1:08 p.m.
To: Steven Jones
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman

On 6/2/2011 6:03 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
>
> Here is the startup script,
[...]
>
> MAILMANHOME=/usr/lib/mailman
> MAILMANCTL=$MAILMANHOME/bin/mailmanctl


ASo your script is starting /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl rather than
/var/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl.

Presumably the insatllation in /usr/lib/mailman has no lists.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun  3 04:54:08 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 19:54:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3154@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE7F86A.60404@msapiro.net>	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30AF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE818F5.2090307@msapiro.net>	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3101@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE824BA.5090000@msapiro.net>	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E312F@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE83400.9090203@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3154@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <4DE84CD0.2040205@msapiro.net>

On 6/2/11 6:44 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> Yes, the lists themselves are under /var.....the mailman binaries are under /usr


OK. What does

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck

return. Does it dump a bunch of data that looks like the attributes of a
list or something else?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Fri Jun  3 05:03:31 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 03:03:31 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <4DE84CD0.2040205@msapiro.net>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE7F86A.60404@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30AF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE818F5.2090307@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3101@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE824BA.5090000@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E312F@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE83400.9090203@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3154@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE84CD0.2040205@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E32CE@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

true and false things, 0's 1's etc....

send_welcome_msg : True,

etc

so yes its looks like attributes.

regards


________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Friday, 3 June 2011 2:54 p.m.
To: Steven Jones
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman

On 6/2/11 6:44 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> Yes, the lists themselves are under /var.....the mailman binaries are under /usr


OK. What does

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck

return. Does it dump a bunch of data that looks like the attributes of a
list or something else?

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Fri Jun  3 05:04:54 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 03:04:54 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <4DE84CD0.2040205@msapiro.net>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE7F86A.60404@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30AF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE818F5.2090307@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3101@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE824BA.5090000@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E312F@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE83400.9090203@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3154@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE84CD0.2040205@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E32D8@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

I have a nasty feeling about selinux....

will check

regards
________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Friday, 3 June 2011 2:54 p.m.
To: Steven Jones
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman

On 6/2/11 6:44 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> Yes, the lists themselves are under /var.....the mailman binaries are under /usr


OK. What does

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck

return. Does it dump a bunch of data that looks like the attributes of a
list or something else?

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Fri Jun  3 05:21:39 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 03:21:39 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E32D8@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2B80@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE79F69.2080503@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E2E7D@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE7F86A.60404@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E30AF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE818F5.2090307@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3101@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE824BA.5090000@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E312F@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE83400.9090203@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3154@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DE84CD0.2040205@msapiro.net>,
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E32D8@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E3303@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Looks like it was selinux....i set it to permissive, rebooted and mailman appears to be up...

:/

regards
________________________________________
From: mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org [mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org] on behalf of Steven Jones [Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz]
Sent: Friday, 3 June 2011 3:04 p.m.
To: Mark Sapiro
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman

I have a nasty feeling about selinux....

will check

regards
________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Friday, 3 June 2011 2:54 p.m.
To: Steven Jones
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] error on attempting t start mailman

On 6/2/11 6:44 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> Yes, the lists themselves are under /var.....the mailman binaries are under /usr


OK. What does

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck

return. Does it dump a bunch of data that looks like the attributes of a
list or something else?

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steven.jones%40vuw.ac.nz

From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun  3 13:56:12 2011
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 14:56:12 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1106011404100.4931@data.home>
References: <COL105-DS21783F2252A240295211B3FB7A0@phx.gbl>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1106011404100.4931@data.home>
Message-ID: <COL105-DS6DD5F3FAC19224622C6DAFB7F0@phx.gbl>

The servers are all vps'es with 256 ram.. and the lists are as big as 33,000 
subscribers per list, 3 lists per vps.. it's one big mailing list for a TV 
station and newspaper.. only one message (newsletter) is sent out every day 
to the subscribers.. but setting:

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS  to only 5 in mailman resulted in a huge number of messages 
generated by mailman that halts the servers, that's why I every hour stop 
mailman then stop postfix then reboot the servers to free up the memory and 
continue distributing the mail..

my question is, is this a good solution? or should I split them into very 
small lists then send the same message every hour after making sure that the 
servers finished distributing the mail for the previous lists?

Thanks..


-----Original Message----- 
From: Geoff Shang
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 2:04 PM
To: Khalil Abbas
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers

On Tue, 31 May 2011, Khalil Abbas wrote:

> I have several vps servers with very limited resources running several 
> large mailman lists, n these servers keep stopping from responding n 
> sometimes mailq shows several errors like: too many open files in the 
> system and not enough resourses ... etc.

How limited are these servers?  How big are these lists?

Geoff.


From ptcox at camden.rutgers.edu  Thu Jun  2 19:48:47 2011
From: ptcox at camden.rutgers.edu (Patrick Cox)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 13:48:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a handful of issues
Message-ID: <BANLkTiknthW7iyH6Y4Cp8pZE12wF9xC6Rg@mail.gmail.com>

1. I've just received an email from a list member who says about 75% of
posts from our list appear in her email without any texts! She received a
subject line and can see the poster's name, but the email is empty! She uses
Mail for Mac

2. Several times list members have simply not received messages at all. This
is happened to a number of list members, myself included. My local Help
people can only suspect  the "Spam" settings on our email, but many of
us--myself included--are very familiar with our email and spam settings and
this is not the issue.

3. My Mailman has the appearance of a searchable archive, but every search
yields no results. I and others have tried searching for terms we know
appear in many posts, yet search yields nothing.

Any ideas, anyone?


-- 
Patrick Cox
PhD Student
2010-2011 David K. Sengstack Fellow
Department of Childhood Studies, Rutgers University
http://childhood.camden.rutgers.edu/
2010 ChLA Hannah Beiter Graduate Student Research Award Recipient
https://email.rutgers.edu/mailman/listinfo/exploring_childhood_studies
<https://email.rutgers.edu/mailman/listinfo/exploring_childhood_studies>
http://camden-rutgers.academia.edu/PatrickTCox/Blog




"In the depths of winter I finally learned there was in me an invincible
summer."
--Albert Camus


"Don't let your studies interfere with your education."
--Colonel Henry Rutgers

"the jUdges of nOrmalitY are present everywhere."
--Foucault, of course

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun  3 16:44:29 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 07:44:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS6DD5F3FAC19224622C6DAFB7F0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL105-DS21783F2252A240295211B3FB7A0@phx.gbl>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1106011404100.4931@data.home>
	<COL105-DS6DD5F3FAC19224622C6DAFB7F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4DE8F34D.3090001@msapiro.net>

On 6/3/11 4:56 AM, Khalil Abbas wrote:
> 
> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS  to only 5 in mailman resulted in a huge number of
> messages generated by mailman that halts the servers, that's why I every
> hour stop mailman then stop postfix then reboot the servers to free up
> the memory and continue distributing the mail..


What problem were you trying to solve by setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 5?
Maybe you should consider raising it or letting it go back to its
default of 500 if things worked better then.


> my question is, is this a good solution? or should I split them into
> very small lists then send the same message every hour after making sure
> that the servers finished distributing the mail for the previous lists?


See the last paragraph of the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/j4A9>. The
throttling patch may help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Jun  3 16:52:45 2011
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 07:52:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS6DD5F3FAC19224622C6DAFB7F0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL105-DS21783F2252A240295211B3FB7A0@phx.gbl><alpine.DEB.2.00.1106011404100.4931@data.home>
	<COL105-DS6DD5F3FAC19224622C6DAFB7F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4DE8F53D.2080304@tuunq.com>

On 6/3/2011 4:56 AM, Khalil Abbas wrote:
> The servers are all vps'es with 256 ram..

vps? If you mean they're vertual servers, then at least give them more RAM! 
(Have you watched the processes with top while running? Where are the 
-actual- bottlenecks?)

> my question is, is this a good solution? or should I split them into very
> small lists then send the same message every hour after making sure that the
> servers finished distributing the mail for the previous lists?

I think the consensus is that it's not. Might work, but not good.  But... 
RAM is cheap, servers are cheap,  why not just replace the hardware? A few 
months ago I bought a used dual Opteron 2.6gH server with 2g ram for about 
$125 at a local reseller. Just needed a disk.  You may spend more time 
hacking around with parameters and segmenting lists than building and 
replacing the box, and then you'll have have a more generally powerful server.

z!

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun  3 17:39:01 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 08:39:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a handful of issues
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTiknthW7iyH6Y4Cp8pZE12wF9xC6Rg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTiknthW7iyH6Y4Cp8pZE12wF9xC6Rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DE90015.20400@msapiro.net>

On 6/2/11 10:48 AM, Patrick Cox wrote:
> 1. I've just received an email from a list member who says about 75% of
> posts from our list appear in her email without any texts! She received a
> subject line and can see the poster's name, but the email is empty! She uses
> Mail for Mac


If others see the body of the same post OK, the problem is in the way
her Apple Mail renders the message. It may be something to do with the
message or with her Apple Mail preferences. If you can post a raw
message with all headers as received from the list for one such message,
we can look at that. You can edit out any personal information and
replace any body text for privacy, but we would need to see all headers,
boundaries and sub-part headers.


> 2. Several times list members have simply not received messages at all. This
> is happened to a number of list members, myself included. My local Help
> people can only suspect  the "Spam" settings on our email, but many of
> us--myself included--are very familiar with our email and spam settings and
> this is not the issue.


What does Mailman's 'smtp' log and the outgoing MTAs log say about the
delivery of these messages. Assuming this list is @email.rutgers.edu,
you need to talk to the people who administer the Mailman installation
at Rutgers to see what's happening to this mail. Perhaps you have and
they are telling you that logs show the mail as being delivered to the
recipient Mail Exchange servers in which case, the problem is with the
recipient servers/ISPs, or perhaps you aren't talking to the right people.


> 3. My Mailman has the appearance of a searchable archive, but every search
> yields no results. I and others have tried searching for terms we know
> appear in many posts, yet search yields nothing.


If your list @email.rutgers.edu, it appears that search is implemented
using swish-e, possibly following
<http://wpkg.org/Integrating_Mailman_with_a_Swish-e_search_engine>. In
any case,only the people who administer the Mailman installation at
Rutgers can help with this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk  Fri Jun  3 17:11:09 2011
From: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk (Steff Watkins)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 16:11:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS6DD5F3FAC19224622C6DAFB7F0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL105-DS21783F2252A240295211B3FB7A0@phx.gbl><alpine.DEB.2.00.1106011404100.4931@data.home>
	<COL105-DS6DD5F3FAC19224622C6DAFB7F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8A17F10FEBA5C841956578C5AD9027D301A0EF57@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>

> The servers are all vps'es with 256 ram..

I'm assuming you meant 256 Megs RAM.. to which I say "Luxury!!!!" :)

> and the lists are as big as 33,000 
> subscribers per list, 3 lists per vps.. it's one big mailing 
> list for a TV  station and newspaper.. only one message (newsletter)
is sent 
> out every day to the subscribers.. but setting:

..and a well-behaved SMTP daemon will just queue up the emails and file
them out onto the internets as and when it sees a gap in the traffic.

Are you just using these servers for mailing purposes, or have you got
all the extra gubbins like samba daemons, webservers, named/bind/dns
servers, enterprise management suites, X11 servers and the like running
on there as well?

Of course the other problem might be that your system is not interfacing
very well with the upstream mailer. How reliable/how quickly does a
standard non-list email take to send from that system to... somewhere
else?

I'd really look at pruning down the excess cruft in the runspace of
those servers, getting rid of all the unnecessary processes that seem to
get foisted onto the box when the install CD does its job. If you think
that memory may be a problem then up the size of your swap/virtual
memory. Disk-space is cheap right now and if you're just stacking a load
of processes then having a useful lump of swap can come in very handy.

"mailq shows several errors like: too many open files"

Ahhh! The old 'not enough open file descriptors to do a decent job'
problem. You haven't said what O/S you're using so I couldn't really
give you a definite on this one but have a look on google (other search
engines are available!) for how to increase the number of open file
descriptors (or handles) in your O/S. It'll usually involve sticking a
line or two into the /etc/system file and rebooting.

It sounds a bit like your O/S hasn't been tuned to handle the number of
processes it has running so either kill off some of the
excess/unwanted/unneeded daemon processes, twiddle arund with the
etc/system file.. And good luck! :)

Regards,
Steff

========

From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun  3 18:10:20 2011
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 19:10:20 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers
In-Reply-To: <4DE8F34D.3090001@msapiro.net>
References: <COL105-DS21783F2252A240295211B3FB7A0@phx.gbl>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1106011404100.4931@data.home>
	<COL105-DS6DD5F3FAC19224622C6DAFB7F0@phx.gbl>
	<4DE8F34D.3090001@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <COL105-DS218564D38E20D1117D8074FB7F0@phx.gbl>

well it was your advise on a previous post to set the SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to 5 in 
order to let hotmail and yahoo and others accept mail coming from my lists.. 
if you remember the smtp_max_rcpts was 500 and thousands of subscribers used 
to bounce back because Hotmail rejected them.. after setting it to 5 it 
worked like a charm .. but I fell into this new problem of large number of 
messages flowing and halting the servers..

I don't want to use the throttling patch as it's not stable and not tested 
before .. so I have 2 ways, either rebooting the servers like I'm doing now, 
or splitting the lists into smaller ones and send to bunch of small lists 
every our ..

what do u think?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 5:44 PM
To: Khalil Abbas
Cc: Geoff Shang ; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers

On 6/3/11 4:56 AM, Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS  to only 5 in mailman resulted in a huge number of
> messages generated by mailman that halts the servers, that's why I every
> hour stop mailman then stop postfix then reboot the servers to free up
> the memory and continue distributing the mail..


What problem were you trying to solve by setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 5?
Maybe you should consider raising it or letting it go back to its
default of 500 if things worked better then.


> my question is, is this a good solution? or should I split them into
> very small lists then send the same message every hour after making sure
> that the servers finished distributing the mail for the previous lists?


See the last paragraph of the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/j4A9>. The
throttling patch may help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan 


From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Jun  3 19:16:36 2011
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 10:16:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS218564D38E20D1117D8074FB7F0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL105-DS21783F2252A240295211B3FB7A0@phx.gbl><alpine.DEB.2.00.1106011404100.4931@data.home><COL105-DS6DD5F3FAC19224622C6DAFB7F0@phx.gbl><4DE8F34D.3090001@msapiro.net>
	<COL105-DS218564D38E20D1117D8074FB7F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4DE916F4.5020802@tuunq.com>

On 6/3/2011 9:10 AM, Khalil Abbas wrote:

> I don't want to use the throttling patch as it's not stable and not tested
> before .. so I have 2 ways, either rebooting the servers like I'm doing now,
> or splitting the lists into smaller ones and send to bunch of small lists
> every our ..
>
> what do u think?
(Did you mean "you"?)

Not to be harsh, but that you're not looking in the right direction. Yes, 
splitting the lists -might- help, but then might not. You'll also loose some 
advantages of one list, such as grouping recipients on the same domain into 
fewer SMTP transactions, and list maintenance will become more of a hassle. 
  Restarting the processes, or, gasp, rebooting the server does not solve 
the problem, it makes it go away for a while. It's not a valid -solution-.

And, you -do- have other ways to analyze and solve the problem but seem 
reluctant to do that. Other people have provided good suggestions (more RAM 
or CPU, remove other processes that may be hogging the system, get off a VM 
if that's what you're using, etc). You can use thing like 'top' to see where 
the resources are going. If mailman needs 500mb of virtual memory and takes 
a long time to deliver that list, everything will fall over when the next 
list starts trying. Eventually, the system will spend more time paging than 
running code.

FWIW, my mail server has been up for 436 days and has only 64mb of ram :). 
Granted it doesn't try to run a 30k member list. I'd use a larger server for 
that.

Have you read:
http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+Performance+Tuning+for+Mail+Delivery ?
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030582
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030711

z!

From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Fri Jun  3 19:45:00 2011
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 13:45:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with max_num_recipients
Message-ID: <4DE91D9C.4090704@wingfoot.org>

Hullo!

I am running 2.1.12 on FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE.

I have a list where, as a rule, we don't allow CCs to other
people/lists. So we set max_num_recipients to 2.

Now, we have a user (on @excite.com) who sends email to the list that has:

Subject: Testing
From: "User Name" <user at excite.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 09:03:09 -0400
To: listname at lists.mysite.tld
CC:
Return-Path: <user at excite.com>

Note the blank CC: line? That seems to trip the "flag for moderation"..

The user claims they're not typing anything in CC (and I believe them),
but for whatever reason, the mailer they're using (still trying to get
that info out of them) is adding a blank CC: line.

Now, my question would be.. *why* would a *blank* CC: line trip this
flag? It just strikes me as kind of odd.

Thanks in advance...
Best,
--Glenn

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun  3 20:46:30 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 11:46:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with max_num_recipients
In-Reply-To: <4DE91D9C.4090704@wingfoot.org>
References: <4DE91D9C.4090704@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <4DE92C06.1000701@msapiro.net>

On 6/3/2011 10:45 AM, Glenn Sieb wrote:
> 
> I have a list where, as a rule, we don't allow CCs to other
> people/lists. So we set max_num_recipients to 2.
[...]
> Now, my question would be.. *why* would a *blank* CC: line trip this
> flag? It just strikes me as kind of odd.


We get the values of the To: and Cc: headers. In this case that returns
the list ['listname at lists.mysite.tld', ''], i.e.,
'listname at lists.mysite.tld' from the To: header and '' from the CC:
header. We parse that with Python's email.Utils.getaddresses() function
which returns a list of (real name, address) tuples, in this case [('',
'listname at lists.mysite.tld'), ('', '')]. The length of this list is two,
so we think the message has two recipients. We don't notice that one of
the addresses is null.

If you consider this to be a bug, you can report it at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+filebug>, and I'll fix it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From shatter at shatter.ws  Sat Jun  4 15:30:14 2011
From: shatter at shatter.ws (Maxime Longuepee)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2011 09:30:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman handling incomming mail
In-Reply-To: <4DE7B0CA.7010306@msapiro.net>
References: <4DE643A3.4080305@shatter.ws> <4DE7A0EB.7020901@msapiro.net>
	<64aba6a9d714e1f7dce7e5495e9f04a7@mail.walknet.org>
	<4DE7B0CA.7010306@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4DEA3366.40309@shatter.ws>

Mark Sapiro a ?crit :
> On 6/2/11 8:13 AM, Maxime Longuepee wrote:
>   
>> Here is the output of postconf -n:
>>
>>     
> [...]
>   
>> virtual_alias_maps =
>> mysql:$config_directory/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf,hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
>>     
>
>
> This is wrong. You need to add hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases to
> alias_maps, not to virtual_alias_maps. Probably something like
>
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
>
> Then you need
>
> virtual_alias_maps =
> mysql:$config_directory/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf,hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>
> and if it isn't already there, you need
>
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['mail.mydomain.org']
>
> in mm_cfg.py, and if that wasn't already there, you need to run
> Mailman's bin/genaliases to create the virtual-mailman* files.
>
>   
Hi Mark,

Thanks a lot, it's working perfectly!!!

Now, if I want to add a mailing list with another domain name i own 
(it's hosted on the same machine), what should i do? I tryed to add a 
new mailing list specifying the domain name with

/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist name-of-the-list at myotherdomain.org

I can access the administration page over the web interface but when i 
send an email to that address, i get an error (here is the postfix log):

postfix/smtpd[94206]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from myhome.org[MY.IP]: 550 
5.1.1 <name-of-the-list  @myotherdomain.org>: Recipient address 
rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table; from=<my at email.com> 
to=<name-of-the-list??@myotherdomain.org> proto=ESMTP helo=<[MY.IP]>

Thanks a lot in advance for helping me!

-- Maxime Longuepee

From mathieu.chappuis.lists at gmail.com  Sat Jun  4 08:15:39 2011
From: mathieu.chappuis.lists at gmail.com (Mathieu Chappuis)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 08:15:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly Password reminder send from old/destroyed
	domain and so rejected.
Message-ID: <BANLkTinuLu2HQ03z2KANgZQHrCAXm-jhUw@mail.gmail.com>

Dears,

I use MailMan (2.1.11 / Debian i386 / Postfix ) since some years in a
multi domains environment.

I started to use it using a domain now destroyed (ie. dom0.org) , I've
updated /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py accordly :

lists.dom1.org replaced old lists.dom0.org

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
#  DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.dom0.org'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.dom1.org'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default host for web interface of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'lists.dom1.org'
# DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'lists.dom0.org'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Required when setting any of its arguments.
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('lists.dom2.org','lists.dom2.org')


Despite my new settings, MailMan use this old domain in the header as

Sender: mailman-bounces at lists.dom0.org

In the montly password reminder, the well configured mailers reject the mail

  <mailman-bounces at lists.dom0.org>: Sender address rejected: Domain not
    found (in reply to MAIL FROM command)


The from: header is correct using an active domain.

Grepping /etc/mailman or /var/lib/mailman I dont found any instances
of this old domain in files (except in archives)

Thanks for helping.

--
Mathieu

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun  4 17:16:14 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2011 08:16:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly Password reminder send from
 old/destroyed domain and so rejected.
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinuLu2HQ03z2KANgZQHrCAXm-jhUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinuLu2HQ03z2KANgZQHrCAXm-jhUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DEA4C3E.8040502@msapiro.net>

On 6/3/11 11:15 PM, Mathieu Chappuis wrote:
> 
> Despite my new settings, MailMan use this old domain in the header as
> 
> Sender: mailman-bounces at lists.dom0.org
> 
> In the montly password reminder, the well configured mailers reject the mail
> 
>   <mailman-bounces at lists.dom0.org>: Sender address rejected: Domain not
>     found (in reply to MAIL FROM command)
[...]
> Grepping /etc/mailman or /var/lib/mailman I dont found any instances
> of this old domain in files (except in archives)


I'm surprised you didn't see

Binary file /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck.last matches
Binary file /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck matches

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9> and run

bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mailman

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun  4 17:41:00 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2011 08:41:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman handling incomming mail
In-Reply-To: <4DEA3366.40309@shatter.ws>
References: <4DE643A3.4080305@shatter.ws> <4DE7A0EB.7020901@msapiro.net>
	<64aba6a9d714e1f7dce7e5495e9f04a7@mail.walknet.org>
	<4DE7B0CA.7010306@msapiro.net> <4DEA3366.40309@shatter.ws>
Message-ID: <4DEA520C.3090004@msapiro.net>

On 6/4/11 6:30 AM, Maxime Longuepee wrote:
> 
> Now, if I want to add a mailing list with another domain name i own
> (it's hosted on the same machine), what should i do? I tryed to add a
> new mailing list specifying the domain name with
> 
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist name-of-the-list at myotherdomain.org
> 
> I can access the administration page over the web interface but when i
> send an email to that address, i get an error (here is the postfix log):
> 
> postfix/smtpd[94206]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from myhome.org[MY.IP]: 550
> 5.1.1 <name-of-the-list  @myotherdomain.org>: Recipient address
> rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table; from=<my at email.com>
> to=<name-of-the-list??@myotherdomain.org> proto=ESMTP helo=<[MY.IP]>


You need to add

add_virtualhost('myotherdomain.org', 'myotherdomain.org')

to mm_cfg.py and add the domain to POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS as in

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['mail.mydomain.org', 'myotherdomain.org']

This assumes the web domain is the same myotherdomain.org as the email
domain. If not, the only difference is add_virtualhost is

add_virtualhost('myotherwebdomain.org', 'myotherdomain.org')

After adding 'myotherdomain.org' to POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, run
bin/genaliases to update data/virtual-mailman*

Also not that the notation

/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist name-of-the-list at myotherdomain.org

is deprecated and doesn't do the intuitive thing (but does the right
thing if the web domain and email domain are the same). See

/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist --help

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From shatter at shatter.ws  Sun Jun  5 00:42:04 2011
From: shatter at shatter.ws (Maxime Longuepee)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2011 18:42:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman handling incomming mail
In-Reply-To: <4DEA520C.3090004@msapiro.net>
References: <4DE643A3.4080305@shatter.ws> <4DE7A0EB.7020901@msapiro.net>
	<64aba6a9d714e1f7dce7e5495e9f04a7@mail.walknet.org>
	<4DE7B0CA.7010306@msapiro.net> <4DEA3366.40309@shatter.ws>
	<4DEA520C.3090004@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4DEAB4BC.3080608@shatter.ws>

Mark Sapiro a ?crit :
> On 6/4/11 6:30 AM, Maxime Longuepee wrote:
>   
>> Now, if I want to add a mailing list with another domain name i own
>> (it's hosted on the same machine), what should i do? I tryed to add a
>> new mailing list specifying the domain name with
>>
>> /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist name-of-the-list at myotherdomain.org
>>
>> I can access the administration page over the web interface but when i
>> send an email to that address, i get an error (here is the postfix log):
>>
>> postfix/smtpd[94206]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from myhome.org[MY.IP]: 550
>> 5.1.1 <name-of-the-list  @myotherdomain.org>: Recipient address
>> rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table; from=<my at email.com>
>> to=<name-of-the-list??@myotherdomain.org> proto=ESMTP helo=<[MY.IP]>
>>     
>
>
> You need to add
>
> add_virtualhost('myotherdomain.org', 'myotherdomain.org')
>
> to mm_cfg.py and add the domain to POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS as in
>
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['mail.mydomain.org', 'myotherdomain.org']
>
> This assumes the web domain is the same myotherdomain.org as the email
> domain. If not, the only difference is add_virtualhost is
>
> add_virtualhost('myotherwebdomain.org', 'myotherdomain.org')
>
> After adding 'myotherdomain.org' to POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, run
> bin/genaliases to update data/virtual-mailman*
>
> Also not that the notation
>
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist name-of-the-list at myotherdomain.org
>
> is deprecated and doesn't do the intuitive thing (but does the right
> thing if the web domain and email domain are the same). See
>
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist --help
>
>   
Hi Mark!

I tryed what you said and it's not working.. I have this error:

postfix/smtpd[99110]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from myhome.org[MY.HOME.IP]: 
550 5.1.1 <test-list at myotherdomain.org>: Recipient address rejected: 
User unknown in virtual mailbox table; from=<my at email.com> 
to=<test-list at myotherdomain.org> proto=ESMTP helo=<[MY.HOME.IP]>

Mailman was originally configured with mydomain.org which still works 
well. The web domain i use to manage mailman is webmail.mydomain.org. 
The other domain i'm trying to add is myotherdomain.org and following 
your advices it didn't worked.

So, I did that in mm_cfg.py:

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['mail.mydomain.org', 'myotherdomain.org']
add_virtualhost('myotherdomain.org')

Then, I ran genaliases and also restarted mailman. I added the list 
test-list for myotherdomain.org with: /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist 
--urlhost=webmail.mydomain.org --emailhost=myotherdomain.org test-list

and it doesn't work :|

What did I do wrong?

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun  5 01:53:47 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 16:53:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman handling incomming mail
In-Reply-To: <4DEAB4BC.3080608@shatter.ws>
Message-ID: <PC195201106041653470078f283207d@Notebook-09>

Maxime Longuepee wrote:
>
>I tryed what you said and it's not working.. I have this error:
>
>postfix/smtpd[99110]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from myhome.org[MY.HOME.IP]: 
>550 5.1.1 <test-list at myotherdomain.org>: Recipient address rejected: 
>User unknown in virtual mailbox table; from=<my at email.com> 
>to=<test-list at myotherdomain.org> proto=ESMTP helo=<[MY.HOME.IP]>
>
>Mailman was originally configured with mydomain.org which still works 
>well. The web domain i use to manage mailman is webmail.mydomain.org. 
>The other domain i'm trying to add is myotherdomain.org and following 
>your advices it didn't worked.
>
>So, I did that in mm_cfg.py:
>
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['mail.mydomain.org', 'myotherdomain.org']
>add_virtualhost('myotherdomain.org')
>
>Then, I ran genaliases and also restarted mailman. I added the list 
>test-list for myotherdomain.org with: /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist 
>--urlhost=webmail.mydomain.org --emailhost=myotherdomain.org test-list


If you want all lists to use the same web host (webmail.mydomain.org)
and only different email domains, you do not want an add_virtualhost()
for the other domains.

You want

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'webmail.mydomain.org'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.mydomain.org'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['mail.mydomain.org',
'myotherdomain.org']

However, the

add_virtualhost('myotherdomain.org')

doesn't really do any harm. So I don't understand what the problem is.
The newlist command you gave should have created the list with a
host_name attribute (visible on the list's General Options page) of
myotherdomain.org, and if that domain was in
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS when the list was created, the required
virtual maps should have been added to data/virtual-mailman.

So, what is the host_name for test-list?

Does it match exactly a domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in
mm_cfg.py?

Is there only one POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS assignment in mm_cfg.py?

What's in data/virtual-mailman?

is the time stamp of data/virtual-mailman.db the same or more recent
than that of data/virtual-mailman?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From begeert at gmail.com  Sun Jun  5 14:22:13 2011
From: begeert at gmail.com (geert Geurts)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 14:22:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailinglist for my football team
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=a85ipTB3-hcKXacq5PmTRxqOXpA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello list,
I'm trying to create a mailinglist for the football team I'm part of.
So I want all subscribed members to be able to add additional addresses,
everyone should be allowed to modify the list of people receiving the mails,
and for the rest all subscription attempts should be disabled.

Than after that I would also like to create some scripts which asks every
week who is going to play that week, and creates a public available website
which states who is going to be there. But that is a second step...

Thanks for any help!

regards,
Geert

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun  5 18:14:48 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2011 09:14:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailinglist for my football team
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=a85ipTB3-hcKXacq5PmTRxqOXpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=a85ipTB3-hcKXacq5PmTRxqOXpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DEBAB78.3020405@msapiro.net>

On 6/5/11 5:22 AM, geert Geurts wrote:
> Hello list,
> I'm trying to create a mailinglist for the football team I'm part of.
> So I want all subscribed members to be able to add additional addresses,
> everyone should be allowed to modify the list of people receiving the mails,
> and for the rest all subscription attempts should be disabled.


Mailman 2.1 does not have a concept of multiple addresses per user. Each
address is a separate list member. A member can change his/her address,
but cannot add additional addresses other than by subscribing them. This
will change in Mailman 3, but that is not yet ready for production use.

You could possibly accomplish what you want by giving all team members
the list administrative password. Then they could do these and other
administrative tasks, but I suspect this would be difficult to control.


> Than after that I would also like to create some scripts which asks every
> week who is going to play that week, and creates a public available website
> which states who is going to be there. But that is a second step...


I don't think Mailman is a good fit for your requirements. I think you
would be better off creating a web application designed around your
requirements.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From aba259 at email.vccs.edu  Mon Jun  6 02:10:58 2011
From: aba259 at email.vccs.edu (Adu Asare)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 20:10:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New
Message-ID: <BANLkTikYkjqOVKiCLkxh+K84W99JFK0K-w@mail.gmail.com>

New member. Just joined.

Thanks

Asare

From wcook at mycoachonline.com  Mon Jun  6 17:04:36 2011
From: wcook at mycoachonline.com (Wayne Cook)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 10:04:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation Bit ?
Message-ID: <4AE8BBCF-2BFC-4E61-A92C-E94A7A21D233@mycoachonline.com>

Hopefully, someone can answer this for me again.  I don't set many  
lists up and thought I had saves what I'd been told once before :(

When people subscribe to my list, the moderation bit isn't set, but  
I'd like the members moderation bit to be set by default.  I can't  
find where to set that default setting...can anyone help me?

Mailman version 2.1.5

Thanks
Wayne


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun  6 18:39:56 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 09:39:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation Bit ?
In-Reply-To: <4AE8BBCF-2BFC-4E61-A92C-E94A7A21D233@mycoachonline.com>
References: <4AE8BBCF-2BFC-4E61-A92C-E94A7A21D233@mycoachonline.com>
Message-ID: <4DED02DC.7070203@msapiro.net>

On 6/6/11 8:04 AM, Wayne Cook wrote:
> 
> When people subscribe to my list, the moderation bit isn't set, but I'd
> like the members moderation bit to be set by default.  I can't find
> where to set that default setting...can anyone help me?


Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> default_member_moderation

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mathieu.chappuis.lists at gmail.com  Mon Jun  6 18:56:58 2011
From: mathieu.chappuis.lists at gmail.com (Mathieu Chappuis)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 18:56:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly Password reminder send from
 old/destroyed domain and so rejected.
In-Reply-To: <4DEA4C3E.8040502@msapiro.net>
References: <BANLkTinuLu2HQ03z2KANgZQHrCAXm-jhUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DEA4C3E.8040502@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikND5xzUVoVQZWC3JjQ8BLz95K4tQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Mark for your help, works now

>
> I'm surprised you didn't see
>
> Binary file /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck.last matches
> Binary file /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck matches
>
> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9> and run
>
> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mailman
>

From wcook at mycoachonline.com  Mon Jun  6 21:02:52 2011
From: wcook at mycoachonline.com (Wayne Cook)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 14:02:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation Bit ?
In-Reply-To: <4DED02DC.7070203@msapiro.net>
References: <4AE8BBCF-2BFC-4E61-A92C-E94A7A21D233@mycoachonline.com>
	<4DED02DC.7070203@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <83092B68-81D5-4EF9-9AB3-7384B10DE87D@mycoachonline.com>

thank you both...don't know why I couldn't find it.  Sometimes I think  
I have to many blind spots in my brain!

w


On Jun 6, 2011, at 11:39 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> On 6/6/11 8:04 AM, Wayne Cook wrote:
>>
>> When people subscribe to my list, the moderation bit isn't set, but  
>> I'd
>> like the members moderation bit to be set by default.  I can't find
>> where to set that default setting...can anyone help me?
>
>
> Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> default_member_moderation
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan


From c.johnson2591 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  6 18:33:25 2011
From: c.johnson2591 at gmail.com (Christy Johnson)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 12:33:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PLEASE HELP
Message-ID: <BANLkTikBs47ZnOV6Q5j2=Vr3xjp5GXYF6w@mail.gmail.com>

One of my listservs stopped working a while back and some of the other ones
have been finicky since. Then just today, the
system automatically unsubscribed everyone who was on the listserv. I am
completely at a loss for what to do here.

Please help!!!

Christy

-- 
Christina E. Johnson
Georgetown University
Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service
(c) 916.792.8935
c.johnson2591 at gmail.com

From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Tue Jun  7 17:11:56 2011
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman Admin)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 17:11:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PLEASE HELP
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikBs47ZnOV6Q5j2=Vr3xjp5GXYF6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBs47ZnOV6Q5j2=Vr3xjp5GXYF6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DEE3FBC.9010906@uni-konstanz.de>

Hi Christy Johnson

On 06/06/2011 06:33 PM, Christy Johnson wrote:
> One of my listservs stopped working a while back and some of the other ones
> have been finicky since. Then just today, the
> system automatically unsubscribed everyone who was on the listserv. I am
> completely at a loss for what to do here.

I suspect you got a lot of bounces. Then mailman automatically
unsubscribed your members because of this.

You have to check your mailman logs and SMTP server logs, why you got
bounces from all addresses in your lists.


Kind regards,
Christian Mack

From drjchamberlain at gmail.com  Tue Jun  7 07:34:06 2011
From: drjchamberlain at gmail.com (Joseph Chamberlain, D.D.S.)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 22:34:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Generic rules for list members.
Message-ID: <CA13065E.197BE2%drjchamberlain@gmail.com>

Hello, everyone.

A question for the group:

Does anyone have a list with rules of behavior and/or Internet etiquette for
members of your mailing list(s) that you could share ? I did a search on
Mailman's website but couldn't find a default or standard one. I found
Mailman's "List Member Manual" but it doesn't seem to contain any
information related to expected member behavior (and I wouldn't expect it to
contain it).

Any that you can share or any links to where I may find examples of rules of
participation for mailing lists ?

Thank you in advance,

Joe



From it at thecorp.org  Mon Jun  6 18:12:39 2011
From: it at thecorp.org (Christy Johnson)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 12:12:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listserv Problems
Message-ID: <BANLkTim7HHY+9itbNoVaixU+=dwLsu1ZCw@mail.gmail.com>

Starting about a month ago, out company began having major problems with our
listservs. Initially, we just couldn't send e-mails to one of them with no
bounce notifications. Then one day, all the bounce notifications came all at
one. Then other listservs also stopped functioning, or refuse to function
when certain e-mails e-mail them. The problem seems to get getting worse,
and I have no idea what to do.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Christy

-- 
Christina E. Johnson
Director of Information Technology
Students of Georgetown, Inc.
Georgetown University
(c) 916.792.8935
i <c.johnson2591 at gmail.com>t at thecorp.org

From juliobrum at yahoo.com.br  Tue Jun  7 15:33:54 2011
From: juliobrum at yahoo.com.br (Julio Brum)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 06:33:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] External smtp
Message-ID: <22362.75745.qm@web130208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello,
Can anyone?give?me?a?tutorial?step-by-step (for dummies...) instructions?for installing?the?mailman?with?an?external?smtp?(gmail?or some?other)?

Thanks in advance,
Julio

From robmclear at me.com  Mon Jun  6 18:12:16 2011
From: robmclear at me.com (Rob)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 12:12:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation Bit ?
In-Reply-To: <4AE8BBCF-2BFC-4E61-A92C-E94A7A21D233@mycoachonline.com>
References: <4AE8BBCF-2BFC-4E61-A92C-E94A7A21D233@mycoachonline.com>
Message-ID: <1D586C09-36F9-4CB2-9ADB-06F632AE95FD@me.com>

On Jun 6, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Wayne Cook wrote:

> Hopefully, someone can answer this for me again.  I don't set many lists up and thought I had saves what I'd been told once before :(
> 
> When people subscribe to my list, the moderation bit isn't set, but I'd like the members moderation bit to be set by default.  I can't find where to set that default setting...can anyone help me?
> 
> Mailman version 2.1.5
> 
> Thanks
> Wayne

Privacy options? Sender Filters, first line of that settings page.

I always forget where that is too?

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  7 18:50:22 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 09:50:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] External smtp
In-Reply-To: <22362.75745.qm@web130208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <22362.75745.qm@web130208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4DEE56CE.9050705@msapiro.net>

On 6/7/2011 6:33 AM, Julio Brum wrote:
> Hello, Can anyone give me a tutorial step-by-step (for dummies...)
> instructions for installing the mailman with an external smtp (gmail
> or some other)?


For outgoing mail you need to set SMTPHOST and possibly SMTPPORT in
mm_cfg.py, and if your outgoing server requires authentication, you need
a patch along the lines of the one at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558281>.

For incoming mail, you need to arrange for the mail server to accept
mail for all list addresses and arrange some way to get this mail from
the mail server to Mailman. How you would do this depends on the mail
server as well as other considerations. No step by step is possible
without knowing what the external server is and what tools are available
on your mailman server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  7 18:58:57 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 09:58:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listserv Problems
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim7HHY+9itbNoVaixU+=dwLsu1ZCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520110607095857020841320909@Notebook-09>

Christy Johnson wrote:

>Starting about a month ago, out company began having major problems with our
>listservs.


Please see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+is+not+Listserv>.


>Initially, we just couldn't send e-mails to one of them with no
>bounce notifications. Then one day, all the bounce notifications came all at
>one. Then other listservs also stopped functioning, or refuse to function
>when certain e-mails e-mail them. The problem seems to get getting worse,
>and I have no idea what to do.


Please see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9> for some things to
check.

If you still need help after checking the things in the FAQ, please
tell us what you found in going through items 2b, 6b, 7, 8, 9 and 13
in the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  7 19:04:05 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:04:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Generic rules for list members.
In-Reply-To: <CA13065E.197BE2%drjchamberlain@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201106071004050424413209ad@Notebook-09>

Joseph Chamberlain, D.D.S. wrote:
>
>Does anyone have a list with rules of behavior and/or Internet etiquette for
>members of your mailing list(s) that you could share ?


Try googling

email mailing list etiquette


>Any that you can share or any links to where I may find examples of rules of
>participation for mailing lists ?


Beyond what you'd find via internet search, rules tend to be specific
to lists. I.e., what's appropriate for one list may not be for others.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  7 19:09:48 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:09:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PLEASE HELP
In-Reply-To: <4DEE3FBC.9010906@uni-konstanz.de>
Message-ID: <PC19520110607100948007141320877@Notebook-09>

Mailman Admin wrote:
>
>On 06/06/2011 06:33 PM, Christy Johnson wrote:
>> One of my listservs


Please see <http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+is+not+Listserv>.


>> stopped working a while back and some of the other ones
>> have been finicky since. Then just today, the
>> system automatically unsubscribed everyone who was on the listserv. I am
>> completely at a loss for what to do here.
>
>I suspect you got a lot of bounces. Then mailman automatically
>unsubscribed your members because of this.
>
>You have to check your mailman logs and SMTP server logs, why you got
>bounces from all addresses in your lists.


Good advice. Also see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-June/071744.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Tue Jun  7 23:15:51 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 21:15:51 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not defined
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E72CB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

I just tried to set a list creators password...

so doing a,

[root at vuwunicmailmnt1 conf.d]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass --help
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass", line 105, in <module>
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass", line 77, in main
    usage(0)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass", line 57, in usage
    print >> fd, _(__doc__)
NameError: global name '_' is not defined

Some quick googling shows nothing.....

[root at vuwunicmailmnt1 conf.d]# rpm -q mailman
mailman-2.1.12-14.el6_0.2.x86_64
[root at vuwunicmailmnt1 conf.d]# rpm -q python
python-2.6.6-20.el6.x86_64


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  7 23:50:07 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:50:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not
	defined
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E72CB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC1952011060714500702959d7b492e@Notebook-09>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>[root at vuwunicmailmnt1 conf.d]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass --help
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass", line 105, in <module>
>    main()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass", line 77, in main
>    usage(0)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass", line 57, in usage
>    print >> fd, _(__doc__)
>NameError: global name '_' is not defined


The standard distributed GNU Mailman mmsitepass contains the following
lines immediately after the copyright notice and the documentation:

import sys
import getpass
import getopt

import paths
from Mailman import Utils
from Mailman.i18n import _

Yours is apparently missing the last of these and who knows what else.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Tue Jun  7 23:57:28 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 21:57:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not
 defined
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011060714500702959d7b492e@Notebook-09>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E72CB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<PC1952011060714500702959d7b492e@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8429@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi

Why would it be missing stuff?

How do I determine this and then go kick redhat?

regards


________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 June 2011 9:50 a.m.
To: Steven Jones; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not defined

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>[root at vuwunicmailmnt1 conf.d]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass --help
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass", line 105, in <module>
>    main()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass", line 77, in main
>    usage(0)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass", line 57, in usage
>    print >> fd, _(__doc__)
>NameError: global name '_' is not defined


The standard distributed GNU Mailman mmsitepass contains the following
lines immediately after the copyright notice and the documentation:

import sys
import getpass
import getopt

import paths
from Mailman import Utils
from Mailman.i18n import _

Yours is apparently missing the last of these and who knows what else.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  8 00:13:30 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 15:13:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not
	defined
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8429@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E72CB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<PC1952011060714500702959d7b492e@Notebook-09>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8429@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <4DEEA28A.4080803@msapiro.net>

On 6/7/2011 2:57 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> 
> Why would it be missing stuff?


Because somebody screwed up?


> How do I determine this and then go kick redhat?


Download mmsitepass from
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/bin/mmsitepass>
and compare (diff) it to yours. The only difference should be the first
line. Any other differences are either a RedHat patch, a packaging error
or something that happened on your site.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Jun  8 00:59:02 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 22:59:02 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not
 defined
In-Reply-To: <4DEEA28A.4080803@msapiro.net>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E72CB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<PC1952011060714500702959d7b492e@Notebook-09>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8429@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DEEA28A.4080803@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8466@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Thanks

regards
________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 June 2011 10:13 a.m.
To: Steven Jones
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not defined

On 6/7/2011 2:57 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
>
> Why would it be missing stuff?


Because somebody screwed up?


> How do I determine this and then go kick redhat?


Download mmsitepass from
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/bin/mmsitepass>
and compare (diff) it to yours. The only difference should be the first
line. Any other differences are either a RedHat patch, a packaging error
or something that happened on your site.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Jun  8 01:22:34 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 23:22:34 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not
 defined
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8466@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E72CB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<PC1952011060714500702959d7b492e@Notebook-09>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8429@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DEEA28A.4080803@msapiro.net>,
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8466@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E84AA@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Well here is the "red hat" one.

===========================
#! @PYTHON@
#
# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001,2002 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
# 
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
# 
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software 
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301, USA.

"""Set the site password, prompting from the terminal.

The site password can be used in most if not all places that the list
administrator's password can be used, which in turn can be used in most places
that a list users password can be used.

Usage: %(PROGRAM)s [options] [password]

Options:

    -c/--listcreator
        Set the list creator password instead of the site password.  The list
        creator is authorized to create and remove lists, but does not have
        the total power of the site administrator.

    -h/--help
        Print this help message and exit.

If password is not given on the command line, it will be prompted for.
"""

import sys
import getpass
import getopt

import paths
from Mailman import Utils
from Mailman.i18n import _

PROGRAM = sys.argv[0]


^L
def usage(code, msg=''):
    if code:
        fd = sys.stderr
    else:
        fd = sys.stdout
    print >> fd, _(__doc__)
    if msg:
        print >> fd, msg
    sys.exit(code)


^L
def main():
    try:
        opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], 'ch',
                                   ['listcreator', 'help'])
    except getopt.error, msg:
        usage(1, msg)

    # Defaults
    siteadmin = 1
    pwdesc = _('site')

    for opt, arg in opts:
        if opt in ('-h', '--help'):
            usage(0)
        elif opt in ('-c', '--listcreator'):
            siteadmin = 0
            pwdesc = _('list creator')

    if len(args) == 1:
        pw1 = args[0]
    else:
        try:
            pw1 = getpass.getpass(_('New %(pwdesc)s password: '))
            pw2 = getpass.getpass(_('Again to confirm password: '))
            if pw1 <> pw2:
                print _('Passwords do not match; no changes made.')
                sys.exit(1)
        except KeyboardInterrupt:
            print _('Interrupted...')
            sys.exit(0)
    # Set the site password by writing it to a local file.  Make sure the
    # permissions don't allow other+read.
    Utils.set_global_password(pw1, siteadmin)
    if Utils.check_global_password(pw1, siteadmin):
        print _('Password changed.')
    else:
        print _('Password change failed.')


^L
if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

===================

It has differences but I have no idea if these matter.

regards



________________________________________
From: mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org [mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org] on behalf of Steven Jones [Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 June 2011 10:59 a.m.
To: Mark Sapiro
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not defined

Thanks

regards
________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 June 2011 10:13 a.m.
To: Steven Jones
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not defined

On 6/7/2011 2:57 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
>
> Why would it be missing stuff?


Because somebody screwed up?


> How do I determine this and then go kick redhat?


Download mmsitepass from
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/bin/mmsitepass>
and compare (diff) it to yours. The only difference should be the first
line. Any other differences are either a RedHat patch, a packaging error
or something that happened on your site.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steven.jones%40vuw.ac.nz

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  8 02:35:09 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 17:35:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not
	defined
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E84AA@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E72CB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<PC1952011060714500702959d7b492e@Notebook-09>	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8429@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DEEA28A.4080803@msapiro.net>,
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8466@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E84AA@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <4DEEC3BD.2000500@msapiro.net>

On 6/7/2011 4:22 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> Well here is the "red hat" one.


Are you sure? It appears identical to the one at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/bin/mmsitepass>.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Jun  8 03:35:40 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 01:35:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not
 defined
In-Reply-To: <4DEEC3BD.2000500@msapiro.net>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E72CB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<PC1952011060714500702959d7b492e@Notebook-09>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8429@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DEEA28A.4080803@msapiro.net>,
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8466@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E84AA@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DEEC3BD.2000500@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E850C@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

hi,

Oops sorry think i copied the wrong one!

==================
#! /usr/bin/python
#
# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001,2002 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
# 
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
# 
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software 
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301, USA.

"""Set the site password, prompting from the terminal.

The site password can be used in most if not all places that the list
administrator's password can be used, which in turn can be used in most places
that a list users password can be used.

Usage: %(PROGRAM)s [options] [password]

Options:

    -c/--listcreator
        Set the list creator password instead of the site password.  The list
        creator is authorized to create and remove lists, but does not have
        the total power of the site administrator.

    -h/--help
        Print this help message and exit.

If password is not given on the command line, it will be prompted for.
"""

import sys
import getpass
import getopt

import paths
from Mailman import Utils
from Mailman.i18n import C_

PROGRAM = sys.argv[0]
^L
def usage(code, msg=''):
    if code:
        fd = sys.stderr
    else:
        fd = sys.stdout
    print >> fd, _(__doc__)
    if msg:
        print >> fd, msg
    sys.exit(code)


^L
def main():
    try:
        opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], 'ch',
                                   ['listcreator', 'help'])
    except getopt.error, msg:
        usage(1, msg)

    # Defaults
    siteadmin = 1
    pwdesc = C_('site')

    for opt, arg in opts:
        if opt in ('-h', '--help'):
            usage(0)
        elif opt in ('-c', '--listcreator'):
            siteadmin = 0
            pwdesc = C_('list creator')

    if len(args) == 1:
        pw1 = args[0]
    else:
        try:
            pw1 = getpass.getpass(C_('New %(pwdesc)s password: '))
            pw2 = getpass.getpass(C_('Again to confirm password: '))
            if pw1 <> pw2:
                print C_('Passwords do not match; no changes made.')
                sys.exit(1)
        except KeyboardInterrupt:
            print C_('Interrupted...')
            sys.exit(0)
   # Set the site password by writing it to a local file.  Make sure the
    # permissions don't allow other+read.
    Utils.set_global_password(pw1, siteadmin)
    if Utils.check_global_password(pw1, siteadmin):
        print C_('Password changed.')
    else:
        print C_('Password change failed.')


^L
if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()
===================

regards


________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 June 2011 12:35 p.m.
To: Steven Jones
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not defined

On 6/7/2011 4:22 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> Well here is the "red hat" one.


Are you sure? It appears identical to the one at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/bin/mmsitepass>.


--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  8 04:53:46 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 19:53:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not
	defined
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E850C@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E72CB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<PC1952011060714500702959d7b492e@Notebook-09>	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8429@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DEEA28A.4080803@msapiro.net>,
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8466@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E84AA@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DEEC3BD.2000500@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E850C@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <4DEEE43A.3000004@msapiro.net>

On 6/7/2011 6:35 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> hi,
> 
> Oops sorry think i copied the wrong one!


OK. See comments inline.


[...]
> import sys
> import getpass
> import getopt
> 
> import paths
> from Mailman import Utils
> from Mailman.i18n import C_


It appears that Red Hat has implemented a  Mailman.i18n.C_ function that
is not in standard GNU Mailman and are using it here instead of the
standard Mailman.i18n._ function.

I can guess that C_ is intended to be 'command _', i.e. a replacement
for the standard i18n._() to be used in command line programs, but that
is only a guess, and I have no idea why they would do this.


> PROGRAM = sys.argv[0]
> ^L
> def usage(code, msg=''):
>     if code:
>         fd = sys.stderr
>     else:
>         fd = sys.stdout
>     print >> fd, _(__doc__)


However, in changing the references from _() to C_(), the line above was
overlooked. You can fix your issue by changing the single line above from

    print >> fd, _(__doc__)

to

    print >> fd, C_(__doc__)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Jun  8 05:07:45 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 03:07:45 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not
 defined
In-Reply-To: <4DEEE43A.3000004@msapiro.net>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E72CB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<PC1952011060714500702959d7b492e@Notebook-09>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8429@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DEEA28A.4080803@msapiro.net>,
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8466@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E84AA@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DEEC3BD.2000500@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E850C@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DEEE43A.3000004@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8576@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

thankyou for your time.

regards

Steven
________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 June 2011 2:53 p.m.
To: Steven Jones
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not defined

On 6/7/2011 6:35 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> hi,
>
> Oops sorry think i copied the wrong one!


OK. See comments inline.


[...]
> import sys
> import getpass
> import getopt
>
> import paths
> from Mailman import Utils
> from Mailman.i18n import C_


It appears that Red Hat has implemented a  Mailman.i18n.C_ function that
is not in standard GNU Mailman and are using it here instead of the
standard Mailman.i18n._ function.

I can guess that C_ is intended to be 'command _', i.e. a replacement
for the standard i18n._() to be used in command line programs, but that
is only a guess, and I have no idea why they would do this.


> PROGRAM = sys.argv[0]
> ^L
> def usage(code, msg=''):
>     if code:
>         fd = sys.stderr
>     else:
>         fd = sys.stdout
>     print >> fd, _(__doc__)


However, in changing the references from _() to C_(), the line above was
overlooked. You can fix your issue by changing the single line above from

    print >> fd, _(__doc__)

to

    print >> fd, C_(__doc__)

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From c.johnson2591 at gmail.com  Tue Jun  7 18:26:07 2011
From: c.johnson2591 at gmail.com (Christy Johnson)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 12:26:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PLEASE HELP
In-Reply-To: <4DEE3FBC.9010906@uni-konstanz.de>
References: <BANLkTikBs47ZnOV6Q5j2=Vr3xjp5GXYF6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DEE3FBC.9010906@uni-konstanz.de>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=iPGjuDyJ2_T=T6dKvA1EZfxe0AA@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Christian!

Thank you so much for your response. I think you are right about the
bounces. I will look through the logs.
Thank you!

Christy

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Mailman Admin <
mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de> wrote:

> Hi Christy Johnson
>
> On 06/06/2011 06:33 PM, Christy Johnson wrote:
> > One of my listservs stopped working a while back and some of the other
> ones
> > have been finicky since. Then just today, the
> > system automatically unsubscribed everyone who was on the listserv. I am
> > completely at a loss for what to do here.
>
> I suspect you got a lot of bounces. Then mailman automatically
> unsubscribed your members because of this.
>
> You have to check your mailman logs and SMTP server logs, why you got
> bounces from all addresses in your lists.
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Christian Mack
>



-- 
Christina E. Johnson
Georgetown University
Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service
(c) 916.792.8935
c.johnson2591 at gmail.com

From begeert at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 07:13:24 2011
From: begeert at gmail.com (geert Geurts)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 07:13:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=3avYftRMoqMf7=0-4VMa5UfPopA@mail.gmail.com>



From barry at list.org  Wed Jun  8 15:53:20 2011
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 09:53:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman NameError: global name '_' is not
 defined
In-Reply-To: <4DEEE43A.3000004@msapiro.net>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E72CB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<PC1952011060714500702959d7b492e@Notebook-09>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8429@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<4DEEA28A.4080803@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E8466@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E84AA@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<4DEEC3BD.2000500@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E850C@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<4DEEE43A.3000004@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20110608095320.0dc7b21e@neurotica.wooz.org>

On Jun 07, 2011, at 07:53 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>It appears that Red Hat has implemented a  Mailman.i18n.C_ function that
>is not in standard GNU Mailman and are using it here instead of the
>standard Mailman.i18n._ function.

Does anyone know why they would do that?

-Barry
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From joemailgroups at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 22:09:21 2011
From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (JRC Groups)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 13:09:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Generic rules for list members.
In-Reply-To: <PC195201106071004050424413209ad@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <CA152501.197F52%joemailgroups@gmail>

Mark,


Thank for your reply. I will try what you suggested.

Best regards,


Joseph Chamberlain


On 6/7/11 10:04 AM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Joseph Chamberlain, D.D.S. wrote:
>> 
>> Does anyone have a list with rules of behavior and/or Internet etiquette for
>> members of your mailing list(s) that you could share ?
> 
> 
> Try googling
> 
> email mailing list etiquette
> 
> 
>> Any that you can share or any links to where I may find examples of rules of
>> participation for mailing lists ?
> 
> 
> Beyond what you'd find via internet search, rules tend to be specific
> to lists. I.e., what's appropriate for one list may not be for others.



From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Jun  9 03:54:11 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 01:54:11 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Continued problems with Mailman on RHEL6.1
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E9EBA@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

I am trying to create a new list via the mailman web  interface, it appears to create a list but inbound emails to the list(s) are failing saying, user unknown in local recipient table.

I am assuming that the web interface should add the list controls to the /etc/aliases file? it looks like it isnt... Either that or I suspect its meant to add to a file in /etc/mailman/aliases? and re-generate a /etc/mailman/aliases.db? and the above path should be in main.cf? so its found?

However mailman is meant to work, it obviously isnt....or do I have it wrong?

regards

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  9 07:52:40 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 22:52:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Continued problems with Mailman on RHEL6.1
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E9EBA@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E9EBA@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <4DF05FA8.8020303@msapiro.net>

On 6/8/11 6:54 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> 
> I am trying to create a new list via the mailman web  interface, it
> appears to create a list but inbound emails to the list(s) are
> failing saying, user unknown in local recipient table.


So integration with your MTA is not properly configured or even available.


> I am assuming that the web interface should add the list controls to
> the /etc/aliases file?


Nope. It never does this. If Mailman generates aliases (MTA = 'Postfix'
in mm_cfg.py) it generates them in $var-prefix/data/aliases which in
RedHat may be symlinked or redirected to /etc/mailman/aliases.


> it looks like it isnt... Either that or I
> suspect its meant to add to a file in /etc/mailman/aliases? and
> re-generate a /etc/mailman/aliases.db? and the above path should be
> in main.cf? so its found?


Yes.


> However mailman is meant to work, it obviously isnt....or do I have
> it wrong?


This list is not the appropriate place for your RedHat packaging issues.

See the installation manual section at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-integration.html> for the
standard GNU Mailman/Postfix integration, and see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/KYCB> for RedHat file mappings.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From domenic.ciccone at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 14:59:26 2011
From: domenic.ciccone at gmail.com (Domenic Ciccone)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 08:59:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Generic rules for list members. (Mark Sapiro)
Message-ID: <BANLkTin-H+TE-xN892k_UuoUrppJXQrrYg@mail.gmail.com>

> Joseph Chamberlain, D.D.S. wrote:
> >
> >Does anyone have a list with rules of behavior and/or Internet etiquette
> for
> >members of your mailing list(s) that you could share ?
>
>
The originator of the mailing list I moderate created this web page years
ago:
http://www.studio-nibble.com/lists/guidelines.html

* List Courtesy
*Advertising Policy
*Verboten!
*Robomoderation


Domenic moderating:
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/exotica

From william at worldspice.net  Wed Jun  8 23:41:54 2011
From: william at worldspice.net (William Pearson)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 16:41:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email interface not processing any email
Message-ID: <4DEFECA2.9060406@worldspice.net>

I've installed mailman 2.1.9 via the yum repository on Centos 5
according to the Redhat documentation. The web interface is working,
however emails sent to any list are being delivered to but not processed
by mailman. There are no entries in the mailman logs to indicate
anything is happening. The postfix log says the messages are being
delivered to the lists. The mailman service is running and the mailman
cron jobs are processing.

--William Pearson


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  9 08:13:18 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 23:13:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email interface not processing any email
In-Reply-To: <4DEFECA2.9060406@worldspice.net>
References: <4DEFECA2.9060406@worldspice.net>
Message-ID: <4DF0647E.8080900@msapiro.net>

On 6/8/11 2:41 PM, William Pearson wrote:
> I've installed mailman 2.1.9 via the yum repository on Centos 5
> according to the Redhat documentation. The web interface is working,
> however emails sent to any list are being delivered to but not processed
> by mailman. There are no entries in the mailman logs to indicate
> anything is happening. The postfix log says the messages are being
> delivered to the lists. The mailman service is running and the mailman
> cron jobs are processing.


cron jobs have nothing to do with normal mail delivery in Mailman 2.1.x

Does the postfix log say "status=sent (delivered to command:
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post LISTNAME)"?

Are the posts in the archive?

What's in Mailman's 'error' log (/var/log/mailman/error in RedHat)?

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Jun  9 22:26:35 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 20:26:35 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Continued problems with Mailman on RHEL6.1
In-Reply-To: <4DF05FA8.8020303@msapiro.net>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E9EBA@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<4DF05FA8.8020303@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0EA2EF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

8><-----

This list is not the appropriate place for your RedHat packaging issues.

8><-------

I can appreciate this, but Im trying to determine what is going wrong so I can be sure in taking it to RH they have stuffed up.

regards

From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Thu Jun  9 22:27:55 2011
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 16:27:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Subscribe options
Message-ID: <p062408abca16dba51678@[192.168.209.11]>

All --

I am in the early planning stages for migrating my largest mailing list (over 50K) to mailman and have a few questions that will be coming in the next few weeks.  Here's the first:

1) I have both digest and non-digest members.  What are the options for transferring these members into mailman?  (Email, Mass Subscribe upload page, command line, etc.) any preferences to preserve their original digest choice?

Does it make any sense to create two new lists (one digest-only, one non-digest-only) and import the members into two new lists?  (This doesn't sound right, but....)

Thank in advance,
Drew Tenenholz



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  9 23:04:12 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 14:04:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Subscribe options
In-Reply-To: <p062408abca16dba51678@[192.168.209.11]>
Message-ID: <PC19520110609140412090679d10716@MSAPIRO>

Drew Tenenholz wrote:
>
>1) I have both digest and non-digest members.  What are the options for transferring these members into mailman?  (Email, Mass Subscribe upload page, command line, etc.) any preferences to preserve their original digest choice?


Make two files, one containing the regular (non-digest) members and the
other containing the digest members. These files contain one member
per line in a format like:

Joe Cool <jcool at example.com>

(see http://wiki.list.org/x/YoA9 for other formatting options).

Then, from the command line

bin/add_members -r regular_file -d digest_file -w y -a n listname

See "bin/add_members --help" for a description of the options.

You can also do this from the web admin mass subscribe page, but it
isn't recommended because it's more cumbersome and with tens of
thousands of members, will probably time out.

To do it, first set Digest options -> digest_is_default to Digest and
upload your digest file to the Membership Management... -> Mass
Subscription page; then set Digest options -> digest_is_default to
Regular and upload your regular file to the Membership Management...
-> Mass Subscription page.


>Does it make any sense to create two new lists (one digest-only, one non-digest-only) and import the members into two new lists?  (This doesn't sound right, but....)


No, it does not make sense.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Jun 10 07:40:37 2011
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 14:40:37 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Continued problems with Mailman on RHEL6.1
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0EA2EF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E9EBA@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<4DF05FA8.8020303@msapiro.net>
	<833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0EA2EF@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <87vcwemega.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Steven Jones writes:
 > 8><-----
 > 
 > This list is not the appropriate place for your RedHat packaging issues.
 > 
 > 8><-------
 > 
 > I can appreciate this, but Im trying to determine what is going
 > wrong so I can be sure in taking it to RH they have stuffed up.

This is *exactly* why you should go to Red Hat *first*.  They have
changed a known working system; they have *already* "stuffed up" by
definition!

The practical problem with asking here first is that the Mailman
project members would find it very expensive to help you do that,
unless they happen to be very familiar with Red Hat themselves.
However, almost all of us build Mailman from source without
OS-specific patches because *we know it works that way*!  We *know*
that Red Hat changes Mailman; but even if shown the patches, we don't
know why or how the behavior of Mailman is affected by these changes,
because in many cases it has to do with Red Hat-specific features of
the OS.

OTOH, the Red Hat maintainer knows all of the above (unless the
original maintainer has gone AWOL and not bothered to train a
successor, in which case our advice is surely going to be "nuke the RH
package and install from source").  He can probably diagnose such
problems off the top of his head, as well as have a much better idea
of when to bat the ball back into our court than we have about blaming
it on Red Hat.


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Fri Jun 10 08:20:38 2011
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 09:20:38 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering by text
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1106100918330.3507@data.home>

Hi,

I help moderate a few lists where certain topics are not permitted.

I thought it would be possible to flag a message for moderation based on 
text found in the body of the message, but I can't immediately see how one 
might do this.

Presumably the administrivia scan uses a technique like this.

Is it possible to do this in Mailman?

Geoff.


From drjchamberlain at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 10:52:39 2011
From: drjchamberlain at gmail.com (Joseph Chamberlain, D.D.S.)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 01:52:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Generic rules for list members. (Mark Sapiro)
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin-H+TE-xN892k_UuoUrppJXQrrYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA172967.1981E5%drjchamberlain@gmail.com>

Domenic,


Thank you for the information and link. This is definitely very helpful and
I will use it as a reference.

Best regards.


Joseph


On 6/8/11 5:59 AM, "Domenic Ciccone" <domenic.ciccone at gmail.com> wrote:

>> Joseph Chamberlain, D.D.S. wrote:
>>> 
>>> Does anyone have a list with rules of behavior and/or Internet etiquette
>> for
>>> members of your mailing list(s) that you could share ?
>> 
>> 
> The originator of the mailing list I moderate created this web page years
> ago:
> http://www.studio-nibble.com/lists/guidelines.html
> 
> * List Courtesy
> *Advertising Policy
> *Verboten!
> *Robomoderation
> 
> 
> Domenic moderating:
> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/exotica
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/joemailgroups%40gmail.com



From kowalskM at cs.moravian.edu  Fri Jun 10 15:27:43 2011
From: kowalskM at cs.moravian.edu (myron)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 09:27:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] editing archives html page
Message-ID: <A7409189-4DD9-4653-84CF-FBBA8EAB833F@cs.moravian.edu>

To recover disk space I remove the archives on quite a few of my  
announcement lists.
When I went to the "Go to archives page" I was surprised to see the  
Archive, View By, etc. listing of
messages that were no longer there. Is there a command to clean that  
page so that it reflects the
messages that are still to be seen.

In my case, since I deleted all the messages it would say "No messages  
have been ... so archives are empty."
That's usually what I see when I create a new list. I can copy the  
index.html file from an empty archive list and edit
that, but is there a way easier way.

--myron
=================================
Myron Kowalski
MoCoSIN Network/Systems Administrator
Moravian College
myron at cs.moravian.edu




From maspsr at sdu.dk  Fri Jun 10 11:28:34 2011
From: maspsr at sdu.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Peter_S=F8rensen?=)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:28:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch ( YES I KNOW THIS IS A FAQ BUT..)
Message-ID: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B624675FA9@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>

Hi,

I know this is a FAQ and yes I've tried to read all items and still I can't find my way out so hope someone
Can shed some light to this.

Just summarizing what I am about to do. I have an old mailman installation I need to port to a new server.
The old one is based on EXIM as MTA but I would like to use postfix, because this is the one I use on a lot of servers.
I need to make mailman virtual. I have around 20 mail domains to handle.

So I install a Ubuntu 10.04LTS 64 bit and get the packages for postfix apache2 and mailman and install
No problem.

When trying to make the virtual postfix/mailman integration, I ran across a post recommending to use mailman 2.1.14
Ok - I removed the mailman package from Ubuntu , actually 2.1.13 - downloaded the 2.1.14 source
Ran configure, make and make install all seems OK.

I have added following to mm_cfg.py

##################################################
MTA = "Postfix"
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'test.sdu.dk',
                                'some.other.domain',
                                   ......

add_virtualhost('test.sdu.dk','test.sdu.dk'
add_virtualhost('some.other.domain','some.other.domain')

called check_perms -f
called genaliases
and checked that i have the files :
my at mls2:/usr/local/mailman$ ll data/alia*
-rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 114222 2011-06-10 09:04 data/aliases
-rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 172032 2011-06-10 09:04 data/aliases.db
my at mls2:/usr/local/mailman$ ll data/virt*
-rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman  86149 2011-06-10 09:04 data/virtual-mailman
-rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 176128 2011-06-10 09:04 data/virtual-mailman.db

Added to postfix main.cf:
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

virtual_alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1

AND in transport i have entries like:
test.sdu.dk              mailman:
some.other.domain   mailman:
....

Then when trying to send a mail to a new list I get the following in mail.log

Jun 10 08:44:22 mls2 Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail#012wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but#012the system's mail server executed the mail script as#012group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the#012script as group "mailman", or re-run configure, #012providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'.
Jun 10 08:44:22 mls2 postfix/local[28200]: 3E460FFDF2: to=<mailman-bounces at mls2.sdu.dk>, relay=local, delay=0.03, delays=0.01/0/0/0.02, dsn=5.3.0, status=bounced (Command died with status 2: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman". Command output: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'. )

OK I go to the mailman source and recompile as suggested and get

Jun 10 07:28:29 mls2 Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail#012wrapper script to be executed as group "nogroup", but#012the system's mail server executed the mail script as#012group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the#012script as group "nogroup", or re-run configure, #012providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.
Jun 10 07:28:29 mls2 postfix/local[22760]: 711C8FFD9D: to=<its at mls2.sdu.dk>, orig_to=<its at test.sdu.dk>, relay=local, delay=14, delays=14/0.02/0/0.03, dsn=5.3.0, status=bounced (Command died with status 2: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post its". Command output: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "nogroup", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "nogroup", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'. )

Permissions on mailman wrapper are:
ll /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 23741 2011-06-10 07:30 /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman*

Postfix alias file has permissions:
ll /etc/alias*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root mailman   775 2011-06-09 15:45 /etc/aliases
-rw-r--r-- 1 root mailman 12288 2011-06-10 07:43 /etc/aliases.db

>From what I can see,  the postfix should use the owner of the mail wrapper script and get the corresponding group and
execute with that.

Can anyone help?

Regards

Peter Sorensen/Univ. Of Southern Denmark/email: maspsr at sdu.dk

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 10 17:20:28 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 08:20:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering by text
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1106100918330.3507@data.home>
Message-ID: <PC195201106100820280093743f3579@MSAPIRO>

Geoff Shang wrote:
>
>I help moderate a few lists where certain topics are not permitted.
>
>I thought it would be possible to flag a message for moderation based on 
>text found in the body of the message, but I can't immediately see how one 
>might do this.
>
>Presumably the administrivia scan uses a technique like this.
>
>Is it possible to do this in Mailman?


Administrivia looks at the message subject and the first 5 body lines
for certain patterns. The test is a special function
(is_administrivia) defined in Mailman/Utils.py and called from
Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py.

The best way to do this in general is via a custom handler. See
<http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>. There is no configuration setting in
standard Mailman to do this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 10 17:34:05 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 08:34:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] editing archives html page
In-Reply-To: <A7409189-4DD9-4653-84CF-FBBA8EAB833F@cs.moravian.edu>
Message-ID: <PC19520110610083405065647ef7615@MSAPIRO>

myron wrote:

>To recover disk space I remove the archives on quite a few of my  
>announcement lists.
>When I went to the "Go to archives page" I was surprised to see the  
>Archive, View By, etc. listing of
>messages that were no longer there. Is there a command to clean that  
>page so that it reflects the
>messages that are still to be seen.
>
>In my case, since I deleted all the messages it would say "No messages  
>have been ... so archives are empty."
>That's usually what I see when I create a new list. I can copy the  
>index.html file from an empty archive list and edit
>that, but is there a way easier way.

If you want a totally empty archive, run

bin/arch --wipe LISTNAME /dev/null

If you want to prune the archive, remove the unwanted messages from
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox and then run

bin/arch --wipe LISTNAME

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2YA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 10 18:05:14 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 09:05:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch ( YES I KNOW THIS IS A FAQ BUT..)
In-Reply-To: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B624675FA9@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>
References: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B624675FA9@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>
Message-ID: <4DF240BA.2040509@msapiro.net>

On 6/10/2011 2:28 AM, Peter S?rensen wrote:
> 
> When trying to make the virtual postfix/mailman integration, I ran across a post recommending to use mailman 2.1.14
> Ok - I removed the mailman package from Ubuntu , actually 2.1.13 - downloaded the 2.1.14 source
> Ran configure, make and make install all seems OK.


And you have conflated your Debian/Ubuntu package configuration and the
standard GNU Mailman configuration.


> I have added following to mm_cfg.py
> 
> ##################################################
> MTA = "Postfix"
> # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'test.sdu.dk',
>                                 'some.other.domain',
>                                    ......
> 
> add_virtualhost('test.sdu.dk','test.sdu.dk'
> add_virtualhost('some.other.domain','some.other.domain')


OK


> called check_perms -f
> called genaliases
> and checked that i have the files :
> my at mls2:/usr/local/mailman$ ll data/alia*
> -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 114222 2011-06-10 09:04 data/aliases
> -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 172032 2011-06-10 09:04 data/aliases.db
> my at mls2:/usr/local/mailman$ ll data/virt*
> -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman  86149 2011-06-10 09:04 data/virtual-mailman
> -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 176128 2011-06-10 09:04 data/virtual-mailman.db


OK


> Added to postfix main.cf:
> transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport

See below:


> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
> alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases


You don't need hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases in alias_database.
This only makes Postfix's newaliases command do extra work. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-integration.html>.


> virtual_alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1


The above, the transport maps entries below, and the mailman transport
in master.cf are for postfix-to-mailman.py delivery which is an
incompatible alternative to delivery vfia aliases and virtual maps.


> AND in transport i have entries like:
> test.sdu.dk              mailman:
> some.other.domain   mailman:
> ....
> 
> Then when trying to send a mail to a new list I get the following in mail.log
> 
> Jun 10 08:44:22 mls2 Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail#012wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but#012the system's mail server executed the mail script as#012group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the#012script as group "mailman", or re-run configure, #012providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'.
> Jun 10 08:44:22 mls2 postfix/local[28200]: 3E460FFDF2: to=<mailman-bounces at mls2.sdu.dk>, relay=local, delay=0.03, delays=0.01/0/0/0.02, dsn=5.3.0, status=bounced (Command died with status 2: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman". Command output: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'. )


This looks like a delivery via aliases which should work if the
ownership of data/aliases.db is as above.


> OK I go to the mailman source and recompile as suggested and get
> 
> Jun 10 07:28:29 mls2 Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail#012wrapper script to be executed as group "nogroup", but#012the system's mail server executed the mail script as#012group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the#012script as group "nogroup", or re-run configure, #012providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.
> Jun 10 07:28:29 mls2 postfix/local[22760]: 711C8FFD9D: to=<its at mls2.sdu.dk>, orig_to=<its at test.sdu.dk>, relay=local, delay=14, delays=14/0.02/0/0.03, dsn=5.3.0, status=bounced (Command died with status 2: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post its". Command output: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "nogroup", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "nogroup", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'. )


And Postfix invoking the wrapper as group 'mailman' is what should have
happened above.

Now you should reconfigure with --with-mail-gid=mailman and try again.
I'm guessing that for the first try above when Postfix invoked the
wrapper as 'nogroup', the owner of data/aliases.db was root, and somehow
in the re-configure/install process, it got changed to 'mailman' which
is what it should be.


> Permissions on mailman wrapper are:
> ll /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
> -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 23741 2011-06-10 07:30 /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman*
> 
> Postfix alias file has permissions:
> ll /etc/alias*
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root mailman   775 2011-06-09 15:45 /etc/aliases
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root mailman 12288 2011-06-10 07:43 /etc/aliases.db
> 
>>From what I can see,  the postfix should use the owner of the mail wrapper script and get the corresponding group and
> execute with that.


No. It uses the owner of the aliases.db file in which it found the alias
and uses that user's primary group.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Fri Jun 10 20:59:56 2011
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:59:56 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch ( YES I KNOW THIS IS A FAQ BUT..)
In-Reply-To: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B624675FA9@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>
References: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B624675FA9@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1106101859060.3507@data.home>

On Fri, 10 Jun 2011, Peter S?rensen wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I know this is a FAQ and yes I've tried to read all items and still I can't find my way out so hope someone
> Can shed some light to this.

Actualy, it's probably several.

> Just summarizing what I am about to do. I have an old mailman installation I need to port to a new server.
> The old one is based on EXIM as MTA but I would like to use postfix, because this is the one I use on a lot of servers.
> I need to make mailman virtual. I have around 20 mail domains to handle.
>
> So I install a Ubuntu 10.04LTS 64 bit and get the packages for postfix apache2 and mailman and install
> No problem.
>
> When trying to make the virtual postfix/mailman integration, I ran across a post recommending to use mailman 2.1.14
> Ok - I removed the mailman package from Ubuntu , actually 2.1.13 - downloaded the 2.1.14 source
> Ran configure, make and make install all seems OK.

It's because of the very sort of permission problems you hit that I don't 
generally do this. Unless you really need to run Mailman 2.1.14, 2.1.13 
should be plenty fine enough.  One server I help administer still runs 
Debian Lenny with Mailman 2.1.11 and again works fine for me.

However, I did have to hand-compile Mailman on a Ubuntu system for work (I 
no longer have access to this box) because I needed to have multiple 
installs for separate domains.  I made some notes.  See below.

> I have added following to mm_cfg.py
>
> ##################################################
> MTA = "Postfix"
> # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'test.sdu.dk',
>                                'some.other.domain',
>                                   ......
>
> add_virtualhost('test.sdu.dk','test.sdu.dk'
> add_virtualhost('some.other.domain','some.other.domain')
>
> called check_perms -f
> called genaliases
> and checked that i have the files :
> my at mls2:/usr/local/mailman$ ll data/alia*
> -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 114222 2011-06-10 09:04 data/aliases
> -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 172032 2011-06-10 09:04 data/aliases.db
> my at mls2:/usr/local/mailman$ ll data/virt*
> -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman  86149 2011-06-10 09:04 data/virtual-mailman
> -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 176128 2011-06-10 09:04 data/virtual-mailman.db
>
> Added to postfix main.cf:
> transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
> alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

You don't need this, and in fact if I recall correctly, it's bad to have 
this.

> virtual_alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

You don't have any other virtual alias domains?

> mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1

I've never seen this one before.

> AND in transport i have entries like:
> test.sdu.dk              mailman:
> some.other.domain   mailman:

You're mixing up methods here.

You can set up Mailman+Postfix in one of two ways, using virtual alias 
domains or using a Mailman-specific domain (e.g. lists.example.com) and 
using a transport.  You seem to have employed both here which is not 
necessary, and by definition only one will ever work.

I've never used the transport option and consider it unnecessary, but it 
may be simpler for someone who is using a subdomain specifically for lists 
and no other Email.

Not sure which documentation you're using, but I recommend the official 
installation guide, specifically the section on Postfix.  It's a little 
confusing but Email administration is a confusing business. 
http://list.org/./mailman-install/node12.html

> Then when trying to send a mail to a new list I get the following in mail.log
>
> Jun 10 08:44:22 mls2 Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail#012wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but#012the system's mail server executed the mail script as#012group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the#012script as group "mailman", or re-run configure, #012providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'.
> Jun 10 08:44:22 mls2 postfix/local[28200]: 3E460FFDF2: to=<mailman-bounces at mls2.sdu.dk>, relay=local, delay=0.03, delays=0.01/0/0/0.02, dsn=5.3.0, status=bounced (Command died with status 2: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman". Command output: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'. )
>
> OK I go to the mailman source and recompile as suggested and get
>
> Jun 10 07:28:29 mls2 Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail#012wrapper script to be executed as group "nogroup", but#012the system's mail server executed the mail script as#012group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the#012script as group "nogroup", or re-run configure, #012providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.
> Jun 10 07:28:29 mls2 postfix/local[22760]: 711C8FFD9D: to=<its at mls2.sdu.dk>, orig_to=<its at test.sdu.dk>, relay=local, delay=14, delays=14/0.02/0/0.03, dsn=5.3.0, status=bounced (Command died with status 2: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post its". Command output: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "nogroup", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "nogroup", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'. )

Like I said, you run the risk of running into these problems if you try to 
compile Mailman from source under Debian or a Debian-based system (and 
probably other package-based systems).  Debian is tricky because they use 
different usernames than stock Mailman, though of course the reason is so 
that you have consistant user/group names across software packages.

Here's some info if you decide you want to persist with the 
compile-it-yourself method.

>From the notes I made, you'll need the folllowing configure line based on 
that used for the Debian package:

./configure --with-username=list --with-groupname=list
--with-mail-gid=list --with-cgi-gid=www-data

You'll also want to use --prefix if you want to install somewhere special 
(I forget what the default is).

Prefix dir must be owner/group list. Must be group writeable and setgid.

You might want to "umask 002" before running make.

After make install:

cd $prefix
bin/check_perms

then
chown www-data archives/private
chmod o-x archives/private

Run bin/genailiases from $prefix

Check that data/aliases and data/virtual-mailman are owned by list and
are world-writeable (try check-perms again after genaliases)

It's almost two years since I made these notes for myself so I don't 
remember the finer points.  I've set up Mailman on several other systems 
and just used the packaged versions.

HTH,
Geoff.

From donald.teed at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 21:14:01 2011
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 16:14:01 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Continued problems with Mailman on RHEL6.1
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E9EBA@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0E9EBA@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikzzt=61oEYsg+CDo2Vo0CPZV_SRQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 10:54 PM, Steven Jones <Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to create a new list via the mailman web ?interface, it appears to create a list but inbound emails to the list(s) are failing saying, user unknown in local recipient table.
>
> I am assuming that the web interface should add the list controls to the /etc/aliases file? it looks like it isnt... Either that or I suspect its meant to add to a file in /etc/mailman/aliases? and re-generate a /etc/mailman/aliases.db? and the above path should be in main.cf? so its found?
>
> However mailman is meant to work, it obviously isnt....or do I have it wrong?
>
> regards

Have you looked at:

/usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.9/INSTALL.REDHAT

or whatever the path would be for your install under Redhat 6?

This contains Redhat specific instructions for the setup.

From maspsr at sdu.dk  Fri Jun 10 22:10:25 2011
From: maspsr at sdu.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Peter_S=F8rensen?=)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:10:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch ( YES I KNOW THIS IS A FAQ BUT..)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1106101859060.3507@data.home>
References: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B624675FA9@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>,
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1106101859060.3507@data.home>
Message-ID: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B624451787@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>

Thanks Geoff

You really got me on the track and pointed out what is was mixing.
Really confusing with all this information :-)


I did as you suggested:

recompiled with:
./configure --with-username=list --with-groupname=list
--with-mail-gid=list --with-cgi-gid=www-data

and removed the transport.

Thats it - thanks.

regards

Peter
________________________________________
Fra: Geoff Shang [geoff at QuiteLikely.com]
Sendt: 10. juni 2011 20:59
Til: Peter S?rensen
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Emne: Re: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch ( YES I KNOW THIS IS A FAQ BUT..)

On Fri, 10 Jun 2011, Peter S?rensen wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I know this is a FAQ and yes I've tried to read all items and still I can't find my way out so hope someone
> Can shed some light to this.

Actualy, it's probably several.

> Just summarizing what I am about to do. I have an old mailman installation I need to port to a new server.
> The old one is based on EXIM as MTA but I would like to use postfix, because this is the one I use on a lot of servers.
> I need to make mailman virtual. I have around 20 mail domains to handle.
>
> So I install a Ubuntu 10.04LTS 64 bit and get the packages for postfix apache2 and mailman and install
> No problem.
>
> When trying to make the virtual postfix/mailman integration, I ran across a post recommending to use mailman 2.1.14
> Ok - I removed the mailman package from Ubuntu , actually 2.1.13 - downloaded the 2.1.14 source
> Ran configure, make and make install all seems OK.

It's because of the very sort of permission problems you hit that I don't
generally do this. Unless you really need to run Mailman 2.1.14, 2.1.13
should be plenty fine enough.  One server I help administer still runs
Debian Lenny with Mailman 2.1.11 and again works fine for me.

However, I did have to hand-compile Mailman on a Ubuntu system for work (I
no longer have access to this box) because I needed to have multiple
installs for separate domains.  I made some notes.  See below.

> I have added following to mm_cfg.py
>
> ##################################################
> MTA = "Postfix"
> # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'test.sdu.dk',
>                                'some.other.domain',
>                                   ......
>
> add_virtualhost('test.sdu.dk','test.sdu.dk'
> add_virtualhost('some.other.domain','some.other.domain')
>
> called check_perms -f
> called genaliases
> and checked that i have the files :
> my at mls2:/usr/local/mailman$ ll data/alia*
> -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 114222 2011-06-10 09:04 data/aliases
> -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 172032 2011-06-10 09:04 data/aliases.db
> my at mls2:/usr/local/mailman$ ll data/virt*
> -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman  86149 2011-06-10 09:04 data/virtual-mailman
> -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 176128 2011-06-10 09:04 data/virtual-mailman.db
>
> Added to postfix main.cf:
> transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
> alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

You don't need this, and in fact if I recall correctly, it's bad to have
this.

> virtual_alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

You don't have any other virtual alias domains?

> mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1

I've never seen this one before.

> AND in transport i have entries like:
> test.sdu.dk              mailman:
> some.other.domain   mailman:

You're mixing up methods here.

You can set up Mailman+Postfix in one of two ways, using virtual alias
domains or using a Mailman-specific domain (e.g. lists.example.com) and
using a transport.  You seem to have employed both here which is not
necessary, and by definition only one will ever work.

I've never used the transport option and consider it unnecessary, but it
may be simpler for someone who is using a subdomain specifically for lists
and no other Email.

Not sure which documentation you're using, but I recommend the official
installation guide, specifically the section on Postfix.  It's a little
confusing but Email administration is a confusing business.
http://list.org/./mailman-install/node12.html

> Then when trying to send a mail to a new list I get the following in mail.log
>
> Jun 10 08:44:22 mls2 Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail#012wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but#012the system's mail server executed the mail script as#012group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the#012script as group "mailman", or re-run configure, #012providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'.
> Jun 10 08:44:22 mls2 postfix/local[28200]: 3E460FFDF2: to=<mailman-bounces at mls2.sdu.dk>, relay=local, delay=0.03, delays=0.01/0/0/0.02, dsn=5.3.0, status=bounced (Command died with status 2: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman". Command output: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'. )
>
> OK I go to the mailman source and recompile as suggested and get
>
> Jun 10 07:28:29 mls2 Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail#012wrapper script to be executed as group "nogroup", but#012the system's mail server executed the mail script as#012group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the#012script as group "nogroup", or re-run configure, #012providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.
> Jun 10 07:28:29 mls2 postfix/local[22760]: 711C8FFD9D: to=<its at mls2.sdu.dk>, orig_to=<its at test.sdu.dk>, relay=local, delay=14, delays=14/0.02/0/0.03, dsn=5.3.0, status=bounced (Command died with status 2: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post its". Command output: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "nogroup", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "nogroup", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'. )

Like I said, you run the risk of running into these problems if you try to
compile Mailman from source under Debian or a Debian-based system (and
probably other package-based systems).  Debian is tricky because they use
different usernames than stock Mailman, though of course the reason is so
that you have consistant user/group names across software packages.

Here's some info if you decide you want to persist with the
compile-it-yourself method.

>From the notes I made, you'll need the folllowing configure line based on
that used for the Debian package:

./configure --with-username=list --with-groupname=list
--with-mail-gid=list --with-cgi-gid=www-data

You'll also want to use --prefix if you want to install somewhere special
(I forget what the default is).

Prefix dir must be owner/group list. Must be group writeable and setgid.

You might want to "umask 002" before running make.

After make install:

cd $prefix
bin/check_perms

then
chown www-data archives/private
chmod o-x archives/private

Run bin/genailiases from $prefix

Check that data/aliases and data/virtual-mailman are owned by list and
are world-writeable (try check-perms again after genaliases)

It's almost two years since I made these notes for myself so I don't
remember the finer points.  I've set up Mailman on several other systems
and just used the packaged versions.

HTH,
Geoff.

From elhijo at macguff.fr  Fri Jun 10 17:11:06 2011
From: elhijo at macguff.fr (David elhijo Leroux)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 17:11:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail based moderation
Message-ID: <4DF2340A.3000608@macguff.fr>

Hi,
we are using mailman to manage several mailing lists.
I'm looking for a way to moderate emails through email interface when 
I'm offsite.
So I manage to use the -request address with the confirmxxxxxx topic 
from a notebook, but using my iPhone, I can't see attached email 
received in moderation notification  from -owner, so I don't have any  
confirm id...
Is there a workaround or do I missed something ?
Thanks,
David


From jl482 at mail.mizzou.edu  Fri Jun 10 19:04:31 2011
From: jl482 at mail.mizzou.edu (Li, Jilong (MU-Student))
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 17:04:31 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The requested URL /pipermail/aa/ was not found on
	this server
Message-ID: <44491209E36F774D85B4BD7346F0C2DC023F30@SN2PRD0102MB168.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Hi,

I installed mailman on my server, but some problems appeared. Could you please help me solve these problems?

mailman version: 2.1.13
operating system: Red hat 4.1.2-50
python version: 2.4.3
gcc version: 4.1.2

problem 1: The requested URL /pipermail/aa/ was not found on this server.

When I click the "aa Archives<http://sysbio.rnet.missouri.edu/pipermail/aa/>", a message "The requested URL /pipermail/aa/ was not found on this server" appears. (aa is a list I created)

I added a few lines in the file "etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf":

Alias /pipermail/ ?/var/www/cgi-bin/multicom_toolbox/mailman/archives/public/?
<Directory ?/var/www/cgi-bin/multicom_toolbox/mailman/archives/public?>
    Options FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

I also set the directory "$prefix/archives/private":


cd $prefix/archives

chown apache private

chmod o-x private

problem 2: when I create a list, no email is sent to my mailbox, and no false message appears.

problem 3: my url is "http://$a.$b.edu/mailman" and my email address is "$name at mail.$b.edu".

I set DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = '$b.edu' and DEFAULT_URL_HOST = '$a.$b.edu'

and POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['$b.edu', '$b.edu'].

Are these right?

Thank you very much!

Victor

From kowalskM at cs.moravian.edu  Fri Jun 10 17:46:38 2011
From: kowalskM at cs.moravian.edu (myron)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:46:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] editing archives html page
In-Reply-To: <PC19520110610083405065647ef7615@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19520110610083405065647ef7615@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <43C7045C-141E-446F-B25D-ED15EECD3F7D@cs.moravian.edu>

The first one command you listed was the one I ran. I looked at  
another list that I ran it on and, it looked as I expected
with the tables removed. In fact, all the other lists looked that way.  
I must have done something wrong on the one
list. Thanks for your help.

--myron
=================================
Myron Kowalski
MoCoSIN Network/Systems Administrator
Moravian College
myron at cs.moravian.edu



On Jun 10, 2011, at 11:34 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> myron wrote:
>
>> To recover disk space I remove the archives on quite a few of my
>> announcement lists.
>> When I went to the "Go to archives page" I was surprised to see the
>> Archive, View By, etc. listing of
>> messages that were no longer there. Is there a command to clean that
>> page so that it reflects the
>> messages that are still to be seen.
>>
>> In my case, since I deleted all the messages it would say "No  
>> messages
>> have been ... so archives are empty."
>> That's usually what I see when I create a new list. I can copy the
>> index.html file from an empty archive list and edit
>> that, but is there a way easier way.
>
> If you want a totally empty archive, run
>
> bin/arch --wipe LISTNAME /dev/null
>
> If you want to prune the archive, remove the unwanted messages from
> archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox and then run
>
> bin/arch --wipe LISTNAME
>
> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2YA9>.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/myron%40cs.moravian.edu


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 11 07:19:55 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:19:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail based moderation
In-Reply-To: <4DF2340A.3000608@macguff.fr>
Message-ID: <PC195201106102219550796725522d3@MSAPIRO>

David elhijo Leroux wrote:

>Hi,
>we are using mailman to manage several mailing lists.
>I'm looking for a way to moderate emails through email interface when 
>I'm offsite.
>So I manage to use the -request address with the confirmxxxxxx topic 
>from a notebook, but using my iPhone, I can't see attached email 
>received in moderation notification  from -owner, so I don't have any  
>confirm id...
>Is there a workaround or do I missed something ?


This is a problem with the iPhone mail client you are using. You could
try taking this up with Apple or maybe find another iPhone mail app
that does a better job of rendering MIME multipart messages.

I don't think there is any workaround in Mailman other than using your
phone's web browser to access the list's admindb interface.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 11 07:21:20 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:21:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] editing archives html page
In-Reply-To: <43C7045C-141E-446F-B25D-ED15EECD3F7D@cs.moravian.edu>
Message-ID: <PC195201106102221200546725521b6@MSAPIRO>

myron wrote:

>The first one command you listed was the one I ran. I looked at  
>another list that I ran it on and, it looked as I expected
>with the tables removed. In fact, all the other lists looked that way.  
>I must have done something wrong on the one
>list. Thanks for your help.


Or you were seeing a cached old page in your browser.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 11 07:30:55 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:30:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The requested URL /pipermail/aa/ was not found
 on	this server
In-Reply-To: <44491209E36F774D85B4BD7346F0C2DC023F30@SN2PRD0102MB168.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <44491209E36F774D85B4BD7346F0C2DC023F30@SN2PRD0102MB168.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <4DF2FD8F.5070202@msapiro.net>

On 6/10/2011 10:04 AM, Li, Jilong (MU-Student) wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I installed mailman on my server, but some problems appeared. Could you please help me solve these problems?
> 
> mailman version: 2.1.13
> operating system: Red hat 4.1.2-50
> python version: 2.4.3
> gcc version: 4.1.2
> 
> problem 1: The requested URL /pipermail/aa/ was not found on this server.
> 
> When I click the "aa Archives<http://sysbio.rnet.missouri.edu/pipermail/aa/>", a message "The requested URL /pipermail/aa/ was not found on this server" appears. (aa is a list I created)
> 
> I added a few lines in the file "etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf":
> 
> Alias /pipermail/ ?/var/www/cgi-bin/multicom_toolbox/mailman/archives/public/?
> <Directory ?/var/www/cgi-bin/multicom_toolbox/mailman/archives/public?>
>     Options FollowSymLinks
>     AllowOverride None
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>
> 
> I also set the directory "$prefix/archives/private":
> 
> 
> cd $prefix/archives
> 
> chown apache private
> 
> chmod o-x private


All the above seems correct. What does your apache error log say? Is
this a SELinux issue?


> problem 2: when I create a list, no email is sent to my mailbox, and no false message appears.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.


> problem 3: my url is "http://$a.$b.edu/mailman" and my email address is "$name at mail.$b.edu".
> 
> I set DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = '$b.edu' and DEFAULT_URL_HOST = '$a.$b.edu'


And following that do you have

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)


> and POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['$b.edu', '$b.edu'].


It is redundant to list the same domain twice in
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS.

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['$b.edu']

is enough.


Also see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From elhijo-mgl at 0lim.net  Sat Jun 11 11:39:45 2011
From: elhijo-mgl at 0lim.net (David elhijo Leroux)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 11:39:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail based moderation
In-Reply-To: <PC195201106102219550796725522d3@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201106102219550796725522d3@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4DF337E1.2090809@0lim.net>

Thanks Mark,
It's a shame...
I don't think Apple care about that, I'll look for an other app...
Thanks,
David

Le 11/06/2011 07:19, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :
> David elhijo Leroux wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> we are using mailman to manage several mailing lists.
>> I'm looking for a way to moderate emails through email interface when
>> I'm offsite.
>> So I manage to use the -request address with the confirmxxxxxx topic
> >from a notebook, but using my iPhone, I can't see attached email
>> received in moderation notification  from -owner, so I don't have any
>> confirm id...
>> Is there a workaround or do I missed something ?
>
> This is a problem with the iPhone mail client you are using. You could
> try taking this up with Apple or maybe find another iPhone mail app
> that does a better job of rendering MIME multipart messages.
>
> I don't think there is any workaround in Mailman other than using your
> phone's web browser to access the list's admindb interface.
>

From lists at luigirosa.com  Sun Jun 12 06:43:12 2011
From: lists at luigirosa.com (Luigi Rosa)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 06:43:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing userbase with WordPress
Message-ID: <4DF443E0.5040009@luigirosa.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Is there a way to share the userbase of Mailman with WordPress?

What I need is that the "master" database is Mailman and I would like to
replicate (also via script) the accounts and passwords to WordPress.

Is it possible?

Thank you.



Ciao,
luigi

- -- 
/
+--[Luigi Rosa]--
\

SysAdmins follow a different PATH.

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk30Q9wACgkQ3kWu7Tfl6ZTj7wCeNglfV9rjHNRuOAKmgNo5uGCf
rzkAn0nD7Ma9+Ba9uIjQ4Dlki8fJlG5l
=dUpY
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From Nigel.Woodley at lufty.co.uk  Sat Jun 11 10:11:36 2011
From: Nigel.Woodley at lufty.co.uk (Nigel Woodley)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 09:11:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender information
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAACXUad9CuHWS5rFNiAtaPH5AQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>

Dear All

 

Is there a way to use the anonymous emails feature but retain the sender
information in the name and reply to fields ?

 

To get around spam protection systems I want all emails to come from the
list email address but that list members reply to the poster.

 

Many thanks in advance

 

 

Nigel 

 

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 12 07:37:28 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 22:37:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender information
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAACXUad9CuHWS5rFNiAtaPH5AQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC195201106112237280854c2c3d772@Notebook-09>

Nigel Woodley wrote:
>
>Is there a way to use the anonymous emails feature but retain the sender
>information in the name and reply to fields ?


No. The anonymous list feature is designed to remove all information
that could identify the sender.


>To get around spam protection systems I want all emails to come from the
>list email address but that list members reply to the poster.


All list posts are sent with the envelope from and the Sender: header
equal to the LISTNAME-bounces at ... address. I'm sure it depends on the
spam filter, but whitelisting this address may work.

If you need to modify the From: header and perhaps put the original
From: in a Reply-To:, you can do that with a custom handler. See
<http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Nigel.Woodley at lufty.co.uk  Sun Jun 12 12:03:37 2011
From: Nigel.Woodley at lufty.co.uk (Nigel Woodley)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 11:03:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender information
In-Reply-To: <PC195201106112237280854c2c3d772@Notebook-09>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAACXUad9CuHWS5rFNiAtaPH5AQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
	<PC195201106112237280854c2c3d772@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAAB/cIWqt8KcQ5UVsoiOgltOAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>

Dear Mark

Many thanks for the reply which is much appreciated.

The spam problem I have is because we have many members from different
organisations linked by a private network.

Emails sent from these organisations are sent out to other members however
when they are received by other organisations on the private network they
are rejected because they have not been delivered internally on the private
network.

I do not have access to change the configuration files unfortunately so
custom handlers will not work for me.

It is a real shame that mailman does not allow you the option of setting up
anonymous mode with separate options for the email address name and reply to
fields.

Are there any other possibilities ?

Many thanks in advance


Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: 12 June 2011 06:37
To: Nigel.Woodley at lufty.co.uk; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender information

Nigel Woodley wrote:
>
>Is there a way to use the anonymous emails feature but retain the 
>sender information in the name and reply to fields ?


No. The anonymous list feature is designed to remove all information that
could identify the sender.


>To get around spam protection systems I want all emails to come from 
>the list email address but that list members reply to the poster.


All list posts are sent with the envelope from and the Sender: header equal
to the LISTNAME-bounces at ... address. I'm sure it depends on the spam filter,
but whitelisting this address may work.

If you need to modify the From: header and perhaps put the original
From: in a Reply-To:, you can do that with a custom handler. See
<http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Sun Jun 12 15:59:39 2011
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 14:59:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing userbase with WordPress
In-Reply-To: <4DF443E0.5040009@luigirosa.com>
References: <4DF443E0.5040009@luigirosa.com>
Message-ID: <20110612135939.GG3712@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 06:43:12AM +0200, Luigi Rosa wrote:
> Is there a way to share the userbase of Mailman with WordPress?

In-part, I'd suggest...

> What I need is that the "master" database is Mailman and I would like to
> replicate (also via script) the accounts and passwords to WordPress.

WordPress (WP) users have email addresses. It's relatively trivial to
extract those addresses, and, say, feed them through to
sync_members(8)...

Pulling in the name (if that's your fancy) could also be done quite
easily.

As for passwords, I'd not do this, at all; particularly if you've not
zapped the password-reminders crontab. 

You'd also, presumably need to unsalt the password-hash stored in WP.

I'd just generate a random password for Mailman. It's trivial
(although, quite how so many failo?) to receive a password reminder,
after all.

(Maybe add in a 'Mailman password' field into the WP users' table, and
in the user's settings pages, and feed that to Mailman?)

> Is it possible?

I'd say:
email addresses: yes
names: yes
passwords: no, and you shouldn't.

How's that?

-- 
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one
 persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
 depends on the unreasonable man." 
    --  George Bernard Shaw

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 12 18:47:08 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 09:47:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing userbase with WordPress
In-Reply-To: <20110612135939.GG3712@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <4DF443E0.5040009@luigirosa.com>
	<20110612135939.GG3712@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4DF4ED8C.3040509@msapiro.net>

On 6/12/2011 6:59 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 06:43:12AM +0200, Luigi Rosa wrote:
>> Is there a way to share the userbase of Mailman with WordPress?
> 
> In-part, I'd suggest...
> 
>> What I need is that the "master" database is Mailman and I would like to
>> replicate (also via script) the accounts and passwords to WordPress.
> 
> WordPress (WP) users have email addresses. It's relatively trivial to
> extract those addresses, and, say, feed them through to
> sync_members(8)...


I think the OP wants to go the other way.

I'm not sure what's available on the WordPress side, but a Mailman
withlist script (see bin/withlist --help) along the lines of

def get_addr_pw(mlist):
    for member in mlist.getMembers():
        em = mlist.getMemberCPAddresses(member)
        pw = mlist.getMemberPassword(member)
        rn = mlist.getMemberName(member)
        print '"%s" <%s>; %s' % (rn, em, pw)

will print name, address and password in the form

"Joe Cool" <jcool at example.com>; jcpasswd

for each member. If you have (or install) the MySQL-python package, you
could probably update the WordPress user database directly in the same
script.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 12 20:22:22 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 11:22:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender information
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAAB/cIWqt8KcQ5UVsoiOgltOAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAACXUad9CuHWS5rFNiAtaPH5AQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
	<PC195201106112237280854c2c3d772@Notebook-09>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAAB/cIWqt8KcQ5UVsoiOgltOAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4DF503DE.9020605@msapiro.net>

On 6/12/2011 3:03 AM, Nigel Woodley wrote:
> 
> The spam problem I have is because we have many members from different
> organisations linked by a private network.
> 
> Emails sent from these organisations are sent out to other members however
> when they are received by other organisations on the private network they
> are rejected because they have not been delivered internally on the private
> network.


I don't understand. Either the Mailman server is on the private network
or not. If other servers on the network are looking at where mail
originates in order to determine whether or not to accept the mail, I
would expect them to be looking at the IP address of the sending server
or possibly things like the domain of the envelope sender or Received:
headers in the message. The last thing I would expect them to look at is
the From: header of the message. And, even if they are looking at From:,
you seem to say that the original sender whose address is in From: is
also on the private network.


> I do not have access to change the configuration files unfortunately so
> custom handlers will not work for me.
> 
> It is a real shame that mailman does not allow you the option of setting up
> anonymous mode with separate options for the email address name and reply to
> fields.


What you seem to want is not anonymizing, but rather just From: address
munging plus perhaps putting the original From: address in Reply-To: in
order to accommodate your specific network configuration. Aside from the
fact that I am skeptical that this will accomplish your goal, this is
not something that anyone else is asking for. Others have asked for the
ability to mung the From: address while preserving the identity but not
the email address of the poster, but these requests are generally
motivated by a desire to prevent replies going to the poster, which is
apparently not what you want.

I suggest you figure out exactly what criteria these private network
servers are using to reject mail, and if it is in fact based on the
From: address, you try to convince the admins of these servers that
making accept/reject decisions based on something so easily and often
spoofed in spam as the From: address is not an effective anti-spam measure.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Sun Jun 12 20:35:49 2011
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 21:35:49 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender information
In-Reply-To: <4DF503DE.9020605@msapiro.net>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAACXUad9CuHWS5rFNiAtaPH5AQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
	<PC195201106112237280854c2c3d772@Notebook-09>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAAB/cIWqt8KcQ5UVsoiOgltOAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
	<4DF503DE.9020605@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1106122132330.4297@data.home>

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> On 6/12/2011 3:03 AM, Nigel Woodley wrote:
>>
>> The spam problem I have is because we have many members from different
>> organisations linked by a private network.
>>
>> Emails sent from these organisations are sent out to other members however
>> when they are received by other organisations on the private network they
>> are rejected because they have not been delivered internally on the private
>> network.
>
>
> I don't understand. Either the Mailman server is on the private network
> or not. If other servers on the network are looking at where mail
> originates in order to determine whether or not to accept the mail, I
> would expect them to be looking at the IP address of the sending server
> or possibly things like the domain of the envelope sender or Received:
> headers in the message. The last thing I would expect them to look at is
> the From: header of the message. And, even if they are looking at From:,
> you seem to say that the original sender whose address is in From: is
> also on the private network.

The way I understood it was that the systems that are interconnected via 
the private network expect all traffic that comes from Email addresses 
hosted on the private network to come *via* the private network and not 
from outside.  This interpretation is based on the assumption that Mailman 
is *not* on the private network.

Sounds like they should just whitelist the Mailman server's IP address 
IMHO.

Geoff.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 12 20:51:02 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 11:51:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender information
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1106122132330.4297@data.home>
Message-ID: <PC195201106121151020746f4ab9aec@Notebook-09>



----- Original Message ---------------

Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender
information
   From: Geoff Shang <geoff at QuiteLikely.com>
   Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 21:35:49 +0300 (IDT)
     To: mailman-users at python.org

>On Sun, 12 Jun 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> On 6/12/2011 3:03 AM, Nigel Woodley wrote:
>>>
>>> The spam problem I have is because we have many members from different
>>> organisations linked by a private network.
>>>
>>> Emails sent from these organisations are sent out to other members however
>>> when they are received by other organisations on the private network they
>>> are rejected because they have not been delivered internally on the private
>>> network.
>>
>>
>> I don't understand. Either the Mailman server is on the private network
>> or not. If other servers on the network are looking at where mail
>> originates in order to determine whether or not to accept the mail, I
>> would expect them to be looking at the IP address of the sending server
>> or possibly things like the domain of the envelope sender or Received:
>> headers in the message. The last thing I would expect them to look at is
>> the From: header of the message. And, even if they are looking at From:,
>> you seem to say that the original sender whose address is in From: is
>> also on the private network.
>
>The way I understood it was that the systems that are interconnected via 
>the private network expect all traffic that comes from Email addresses 
>hosted on the private network to come *via* the private network and not 
>from outside.  This interpretation is based on the assumption that Mailman 
>is *not* on the private network.
>
>Sounds like they should just whitelist the Mailman server's IP address 
>IMHO.
>
>Geoff.
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mark%40msapiro.net
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Nigel.Woodley at lufty.co.uk  Sun Jun 12 20:52:35 2011
From: Nigel.Woodley at lufty.co.uk (Nigel Woodley)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 19:52:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender information
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1106122132330.4297@data.home>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAACXUad9CuHWS5rFNiAtaPH5AQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>	<PC195201106112237280854c2c3d772@Notebook-09>	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAAB/cIWqt8KcQ5UVsoiOgltOAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>	<4DF503DE.9020605@msapiro.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1106122132330.4297@data.home>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAADCeu6uNQmcR7OT9I4MCOgVAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>

Hi Geoff and Mark

Your understanding is correct and unfortunately the mailman server has to be
external.

Also unfortunately it is not possible to whitelist the mailman server on the
email servers within the private networks.

Any other ideas ?

Many thanks in advance

 
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+nigel.woodley=lufty.co.uk at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+nigel.woodley=lufty.co.uk at python.org] On
Behalf Of Geoff Shang
Sent: 12 June 2011 19:36
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender information

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> On 6/12/2011 3:03 AM, Nigel Woodley wrote:
>>
>> The spam problem I have is because we have many members from 
>> different organisations linked by a private network.
>>
>> Emails sent from these organisations are sent out to other members 
>> however when they are received by other organisations on the private 
>> network they are rejected because they have not been delivered 
>> internally on the private network.
>
>
> I don't understand. Either the Mailman server is on the private 
> network or not. If other servers on the network are looking at where 
> mail originates in order to determine whether or not to accept the 
> mail, I would expect them to be looking at the IP address of the 
> sending server or possibly things like the domain of the envelope sender
or Received:
> headers in the message. The last thing I would expect them to look at 
> is the From: header of the message. And, even if they are looking at 
> From:, you seem to say that the original sender whose address is in 
> From: is also on the private network.

The way I understood it was that the systems that are interconnected via the
private network expect all traffic that comes from Email addresses hosted on
the private network to come *via* the private network and not from outside.
This interpretation is based on the assumption that Mailman is *not* on the
private network.

Sounds like they should just whitelist the Mailman server's IP address IMHO.

Geoff.

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy:
http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/nigel.woodley%40lufty.c
o.uk



From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 12 20:56:19 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 11:56:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender information
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1106122132330.4297@data.home>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAACXUad9CuHWS5rFNiAtaPH5AQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>	<PC195201106112237280854c2c3d772@Notebook-09>	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAAB/cIWqt8KcQ5UVsoiOgltOAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>	<4DF503DE.9020605@msapiro.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1106122132330.4297@data.home>
Message-ID: <4DF50BD3.4060903@msapiro.net>

On 6/12/2011 11:35 AM, Geoff Shang wrote:
> 
> The way I understood it was that the systems that are interconnected via
> the private network expect all traffic that comes from Email addresses
> hosted on the private network to come *via* the private network and not
> from outside.  This interpretation is based on the assumption that
> Mailman is *not* on the private network.


(Sorry for the immediately preceding 'content free' reply)

Thank you for the above Geoff. That actually does make sense to me.


> Sounds like they should just whitelist the Mailman server's IP address
> IMHO.


I agree.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 12 21:05:16 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:05:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender information
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAADCeu6uNQmcR7OT9I4MCOgVAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAACXUad9CuHWS5rFNiAtaPH5AQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>	<PC195201106112237280854c2c3d772@Notebook-09>	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAAB/cIWqt8KcQ5UVsoiOgltOAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>	<4DF503DE.9020605@msapiro.net>	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1106122132330.4297@data.home>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAADCeu6uNQmcR7OT9I4MCOgVAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4DF50DEC.1060600@msapiro.net>

On 6/12/2011 11:52 AM, Nigel Woodley wrote:
> Hi Geoff and Mark
> 
> Your understanding is correct and unfortunately the mailman server has to be
> external.
> 
> Also unfortunately it is not possible to whitelist the mailman server on the
> email servers within the private networks.


OK. I understand the problem now.

When you say "it is not possible to whitelist the mailman server", do
you mean not technically possible or not possible because actual spam is
also relayed via this server (maybe it's also the gateway to the internet).

Assuming you mean the latter, perhaps it would be possible to whitelist
the LISTNAME-bounces at mailman_domain envelope sender.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Nigel.Woodley at lufty.co.uk  Sun Jun 12 21:10:41 2011
From: Nigel.Woodley at lufty.co.uk (Nigel Woodley)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 20:10:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender information
In-Reply-To: <4DF50DEC.1060600@msapiro.net>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAACXUad9CuHWS5rFNiAtaPH5AQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>	<PC195201106112237280854c2c3d772@Notebook-09>	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAAB/cIWqt8KcQ5UVsoiOgltOAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>	<4DF503DE.9020605@msapiro.net>	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1106122132330.4297@data.home>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAADCeu6uNQmcR7OT9I4MCOgVAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
	<4DF50DEC.1060600@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAAAplbrlATMoTKpS4104XheRAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>

Hi Mark

The problem is that the private network is made up of 50+ large
organisations and the policy is that all emails between these organisations
are routed securely over the private network therefore no whitelisting is
allowed and indeed even if it was it would be very difficult to get 50 large
organisations to agree a change of anti-spam rules.

I really appreciate all your help but I guess it should be a new feature put
on the wish list for the next version of mailman.

I understand other mailman type products offer this functionality for the
very reason that I have outlined.

Kind regards


Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: 12 June 2011 20:05
To: Nigel.Woodley at lufty.co.uk
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender information

On 6/12/2011 11:52 AM, Nigel Woodley wrote:
> Hi Geoff and Mark
> 
> Your understanding is correct and unfortunately the mailman server has 
> to be external.
> 
> Also unfortunately it is not possible to whitelist the mailman server 
> on the email servers within the private networks.


OK. I understand the problem now.

When you say "it is not possible to whitelist the mailman server", do you
mean not technically possible or not possible because actual spam is also
relayed via this server (maybe it's also the gateway to the internet).

Assuming you mean the latter, perhaps it would be possible to whitelist the
LISTNAME-bounces at mailman_domain envelope sender.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From lists at luigirosa.com  Sun Jun 12 21:27:29 2011
From: lists at luigirosa.com (Luigi Rosa)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 21:27:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing userbase with WordPress
In-Reply-To: <4DF4ED8C.3040509@msapiro.net>
References: <4DF443E0.5040009@luigirosa.com>
	<20110612135939.GG3712@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
	<4DF4ED8C.3040509@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4DF51321.6040905@luigirosa.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro said the following on 12/06/11 18:47:

> for each member. If you have (or install) the MySQL-python package, you
> could probably update the WordPress user database directly in the same
> script.

Thank you all for the suggestions!


Ciao,
luigi

- -- 
/
+--[Luigi Rosa]--
\

Can anything be sadder than work left unfinished? Yes, work never begun.
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From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jun 13 04:20:21 2011
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:20:21 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anonymous emails with the sender information
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAAAplbrlATMoTKpS4104XheRAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAACXUad9CuHWS5rFNiAtaPH5AQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
	<PC195201106112237280854c2c3d772@Notebook-09>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAAB/cIWqt8KcQ5UVsoiOgltOAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
	<4DF503DE.9020605@msapiro.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1106122132330.4297@data.home>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAADCeu6uNQmcR7OT9I4MCOgVAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
	<4DF50DEC.1060600@msapiro.net>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAALMouMpg7K9DgYyCJaxUtEEBAA+6pHGhtEhOhSvUFCe+JRUAAAC8YngAABAAAAAplbrlATMoTKpS4104XheRAQAAAAA=@lufty.co.uk>
Message-ID: <8739jempzu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Nigel Woodley writes:

 > I understand other mailman type products offer this functionality for the
 > very reason that I have outlined.

What you are saying implies that an explicitly untrusted host is
allowed to inject content into a secure network based on the most
easily forged identification on the Internet.  This seems unlikely to
be true to me, and if true, I would say the security policy is broken.

Are you sure you understand the actual rules for mail distribution on
this network?  I have to suspect that even if you got what you say you
want, you still would not be able to distribute posts via a Mailman
based on that host.

There are better methods for identification like DKIM (though they
still have technical problems w.r.t. mailing lists).  Perhaps such a
protocol is in use on your network and you need not munge headers at
all (in fact, you can not munge DKIM-signed headers without breaking
DKIM).

HTH

From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Mon Jun 13 09:43:16 2011
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (Pete Bell)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 08:43:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing Mailman's text files
Message-ID: <B0233F8F-4E5F-4424-B75F-BAAF7D8F9A56@ntlworld.com>

Hi.

I'm a new member of this group but have been running an email list with Mailman for a long time.

I am now setting a list up again and want to give a "look and feel" to the list which has more branding of my user group as a whole, and less of a Mailman-feel.

I seem to remember that besides editing the public HTML pages, it is possible to edit the text files which Mailman automatically sends out for certain needs (such as 'approve.txt', 'adminsubscribeack.txt', 'invite.txt', and so on).

A. Is this still the case?
B. If so, where can I find them? (in case they've changed from the ones I have from long ago).
C. Where do they need putting, so that Mailman can use them again?

It's important that I should tell you that Mailman on my webhosts servers is a "server-wide" installation, and I don't get to edit anything which other clients to their servers need.
This would be only for my own use, and as such I need to know where these files go in my own webspace, and how to get Mailman to use them instead of the default ones.

I should also say that I have done this before, so unless the facility to do this has been ditched in recent years, I *should* still be able to do it !

Does Mailman perhaps look for these files somewhere in my webspace (which I have to give a specific name), and if it doesn't find them it goes on to find its default versions of these files?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Pete Bell, UK

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 13 17:48:38 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 08:48:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing Mailman's text files
In-Reply-To: <B0233F8F-4E5F-4424-B75F-BAAF7D8F9A56@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201106130848380093059b6643@MSAPIRO>

Pete Bell wrote:
>
>I seem to remember that besides editing the public HTML pages, it is possible to edit the text files which Mailman automatically sends out for certain needs (such as 'approve.txt', 'adminsubscribeack.txt', 'invite.txt', and so on).
>
>A. Is this still the case?
>B. If so, where can I find them? (in case they've changed from the ones I have from long ago).
>C. Where do they need putting, so that Mailman can use them again?


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Mon Jun 13 21:22:04 2011
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (Pete Bell)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:22:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member's real name
Message-ID: <EE69BD4E-B45E-4AF2-AF2D-167B26DA8C45@ntlworld.com>

Hi.

I know how a member of a Mailman list can add their real name to their subscription through the user options page, but is this also possible by email commands?

TIA
Pete Bell, UK

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 13 21:38:27 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 12:38:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member's real name
In-Reply-To: <EE69BD4E-B45E-4AF2-AF2D-167B26DA8C45@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201106131238270625059b684c@MSAPIRO>

Pete Bell wrote:
>
>I know how a member of a Mailman list can add their real name to their subscription through the user options page, but is this also possible by email commands?


No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jl482 at mail.mizzou.edu  Tue Jun 14 07:19:13 2011
From: jl482 at mail.mizzou.edu (Li, Jilong (MU-Student))
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 05:19:13 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some problems about mailman
Message-ID: <44491209E36F774D85B4BD7346F0C2DC026CA4@SN2PRD0102MB168.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Hello,

I installed mailman on my server, but some problems appeared. Could you please help me solve these problems?

mailman version: 2.1.13
operating system: Red hat 4.1.2-50
python version: 2.4.3
gcc version: 4.1.2

problem 1: The requested URL /pipermail/aa/ was not found on this server.

When I click the "aa Archives<http://sysbio.rnet.missouri.edu/pipermail/aa/>", a message "The requested URL /pipermail/aa/ was not found on this server" appears. (aa is a list I created)

I added a few lines in the file "etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf":

Alias /pipermail/ "/var/www/cgi-bin/multicom_toolbox/mailman/archives/public/"
<Directory "/var/www/cgi-bin/multicom_toolbox/mailman/archives/public">
  Options FollowSymLinks
  AllowOverride None
  Order allow,deny
  Allow from all
</Directory>

I also set the directory "$prefix/archives/private":
chown apache private
chmod o-x private

but the file "archives/public/aa/index.html" is 664, not 755. Does this attribute affact archives's work?

problem 2: when I create a list, no email is sent to my mailbox, and no false message appears.

I read the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>. But, I did not find any fault set.

problem 3: I run configure by the user "jl482", and I set the option "--with-mail-gid=jl482". Is that right?

problem 4: Before installing mailman, I set user "jl482" as the owner of mailman. However, I do not know why,

the owner of some files and directories is not jl482, is apache, such as data/virtual-mailman, qfiles, /lists, /archives/private, /archives/public, etc.

Thank you very much!

Victor


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 14 09:20:20 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 00:20:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some problems about mailman
In-Reply-To: <44491209E36F774D85B4BD7346F0C2DC026CA4@SN2PRD0102MB168.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <44491209E36F774D85B4BD7346F0C2DC026CA4@SN2PRD0102MB168.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <4DF70BB4.9050301@msapiro.net>

On 6/13/2011 10:19 PM, Li, Jilong (MU-Student) wrote:
> 
> problem 1: The requested URL /pipermail/aa/ was not found on this server.
[...]


You posted this exact information a few days ago
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-June/071781.html>.

In my reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-June/071785.html>,
I said "All the above seems correct. What does your apache error log
say? Is this a SELinux issue?" What are the answers to those questions?


> but the file "archives/public/aa/index.html" is 664, not 755. Does this attribute affact archives's work?


There should not be any archives/public/aa/index.html at all.
archives/public/aa should be a symlink to archives/private/aa and
archives/private/aa/index.html is just an html file; it is not
executable and 664 is the correct mode.


> problem 2: when I create a list, no email is sent to my mailbox, and no false message appears.
> 
> I read the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>. But, I did not find any fault set.


What did you find? Specifically, what did you find for items 2b and 6b.
What did you find in mailman's logs (item 8) and queues (item 9)?. Are
posts archived (item 13)?


> problem 3: I run configure by the user "jl482", and I set the option "--with-mail-gid=jl482". Is that right?


No. It should be 'mailman'.


> problem 4: Before installing mailman, I set user "jl482" as the owner of mailman. However, I do not know why,


The owner and group should probably both be 'mailman'. Also, you should
run "make install" as root or as mailman.


> the owner of some files and directories is not jl482, is apache, such as data/virtual-mailman, qfiles, /lists, /archives/private, /archives/public, etc.


That is normal. The main thing is the group should be 'mailman' and the
owner of data/aliases.db should be 'mailman'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From maspsr at sdu.dk  Tue Jun 14 13:19:03 2011
From: maspsr at sdu.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Peter_S=F8rensen?=)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 13:19:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List advertised but does not show
Message-ID: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B62467611C@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>

Hi,

I have some lists which all have advertised=1 but they don't show in
the web interface. What else could be missing ? Using  mailman 2.1.14

best regards

Peter Sorensen/Univ. Of Southern Denmark/email: maspsr at sdu.dk

From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Tue Jun 14 13:37:02 2011
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (Pete Bell)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 12:37:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email commands aren't working
Message-ID: <CDD98FBE-AE5E-4441-B16F-74EFFDBE68C1@ntlworld.com>

Mailmanit doesn't seem to be changing the settings of user options by email commands as it should.

Subscribing is excellent, so I *know* it is receiving the commands by email correctly, and I am CC'ing the emails to myself so that I *know* they are going to Mailman in the correct format, and I *know* they are going to the right address!

However, an email which has a subject line of:-

set authenticate XXXX address=yyyy at zzzz.com set delivery off

...*should* turn the delivery of list emails *off* for the member who is subscribed at yyyy at zzzz.com with a password of "XXXX"

But it isn't doing it.

I even receive an email back saying "done", but the membership roster does not show that delivery is turned off for that member.

I have also tested set ack on and set digest plain and so on.  Nothing is working except my subscription requests.

Any ideas please?  For me, Mailman is a server-wide installation shared by all lists on the server. It's not mine alone.

Cheers
Pete

From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Tue Jun 14 15:53:00 2011
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:53:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Minimal Mailboxes Question
Message-ID: <4DF767BC.8000202@bellsouth.net>

Due to various reasons, I had to change my site name from 'mailman' to
something else. It is not clear from the documentation what mailboxes
are really required. The site list is not used for anything other than
processing reminders and other administrative functions. What I need to
know is what names are required for proper function. I am limited by my
ISP to the number of subaccounts I can have so I can't have more than
the absolute essentials. For a regular mailing list I have the following
mailboxes:

<name>
<name>-owner
<name>-confirm
<name>-join
<name>-leave
<name>-request

For the site list I have:

<sitename>-owner
<sitename>-bounces

For the most part this seems to be working under normal circumstances.
What happens to mail from the regular list that bounces? Do I need
<name>-bounces or does it go to <sitename>-bounces? Are these mailboxes
sufficient or do I need others (I can add a maximum of 2 more)
particularly when something goes wrong. It seems like my problem area is
when something bad happens, I don't get notified. That is the reason I
had to change my site name so I can retrieve bounces.

TIA.


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From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Tue Jun 14 16:10:14 2011
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:10:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Minimal Mailboxes Question
In-Reply-To: <4DF767BC.8000202@bellsouth.net>
References: <4DF767BC.8000202@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <4DF76BC6.80105@Damon-Family.org>

On 6/14/11 9:53 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
> Due to various reasons, I had to change my site name from 'mailman' to
> something else. It is not clear from the documentation what mailboxes
> are really required. The site list is not used for anything other than
> processing reminders and other administrative functions. What I need to
> know is what names are required for proper function. I am limited by my
> ISP to the number of subaccounts I can have so I can't have more than
> the absolute essentials. For a regular mailing list I have the following
> mailboxes:
>
> <name>
> <name>-owner
> <name>-confirm
> <name>-join
> <name>-leave
> <name>-request
>
> For the site list I have:
>
> <sitename>-owner
> <sitename>-bounces
>
> For the most part this seems to be working under normal circumstances.
> What happens to mail from the regular list that bounces? Do I need
> <name>-bounces or does it go to<sitename>-bounces? Are these mailboxes
> sufficient or do I need others (I can add a maximum of 2 more)
> particularly when something goes wrong. It seems like my problem area is
> when something bad happens, I don't get notified. That is the reason I
> had to change my site name so I can retrieve bounces.
>
> TIA.
>
>
Bounces to a list email message go to <listname>-bounces, so you 
probably need that one. There is also <listname>-admin defined, which I 
think is just an alias for <listname>-bounces, and I don't think the 
list itself actually addresses anything to that.

-- 
Richard Damon


From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it  Tue Jun 14 16:36:43 2011
From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 16:36:43 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives of sibling lists
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1106141631190.2970@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>

I have set up (for a transitory activity lasting about one month) a couple 
of lists (A and B) with real subscribers, and an umbrella list C with no 
members, but having A and B as sibling lists.

I have set up the lists with private archives.

Now it is clear that members of A or B can access the archives of the 
respective list, using their e-mail and password.

But who and how can access the archives of C ?
Ideally all members of A and C should

For some reason I can, but I'm the moderator and used the moderator 
passwords and probably there are some cookies that make the browser work 
anyhow.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy)
For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 14 19:15:25 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:15:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List advertised but does not show
In-Reply-To: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B62467611C@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>
References: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B62467611C@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>
Message-ID: <4DF7972D.7060504@msapiro.net>

On 6/14/2011 4:19 AM, Peter S?rensen wrote:
> 
> I have some lists which all have advertised=1 but they don't show in
> the web interface. What else could be missing ? Using  mailman 2.1.14


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 14 19:28:57 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:28:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email commands aren't working
In-Reply-To: <CDD98FBE-AE5E-4441-B16F-74EFFDBE68C1@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201106141028570296e712b4a1@MSAPIRO>

Pete Bell wrote:
>
>However, an email which has a subject line of:-
>
>set authenticate XXXX address=yyyy at zzzz.com set delivery off
>
>...*should* turn the delivery of list emails *off* for the member who is subscribed at yyyy at zzzz.com with a password of "XXXX"


No it shouldn't. That Subject: contains two 'set' commands, and Mailman
parses and processes only one command per line. You could put "set
authenticate XXXX address=yyyy at zzzz.com" in the Subject: and "set
delivery off" in the message body or put them both in the body on
separate lines, but you can't put multiple commands in the Subject:.
Even if you could RFC 2047 encode a newline in the subject between the
commands, it wouldn't work because of the way the Subject: is parsed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 14 20:20:03 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 11:20:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Minimal Mailboxes Question
In-Reply-To: <4DF76BC6.80105@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952011061411200305467f18e3a5@MSAPIRO>

Richard Damon wrote:

>On 6/14/11 9:53 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
[...]
>>
>> For the most part this seems to be working under normal circumstances.
>> What happens to mail from the regular list that bounces? Do I need
>> <name>-bounces or does it go to<sitename>-bounces? Are these mailboxes
>> sufficient or do I need others (I can add a maximum of 2 more)
>> particularly when something goes wrong. It seems like my problem area is
>> when something bad happens, I don't get notified. That is the reason I
>> had to change my site name so I can retrieve bounces.
>>
>> TIA.
>>
>>
>Bounces to a list email message go to <listname>-bounces, so you 
>probably need that one. There is also <listname>-admin defined, which I 
>think is just an alias for <listname>-bounces, and I don't think the 
>list itself actually addresses anything to that.


Correct. the -admin address is not used. It only exists because it was
used in Mailman 2.0.

However, you should probably have a <sitename> in addition to
<sitename>-owner and <sitename>-bounces because this address is
exposed on the admin and listinfo overview web pages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 14 20:33:02 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 11:33:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives of sibling lists
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1106141631190.2970@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg>
Message-ID: <PC19520110614113302062599da9733@MSAPIRO>


Lucio Chiappetti wrote:

>I have set up (for a transitory activity lasting about one month) a couple 
>of lists (A and B) with real subscribers, and an umbrella list C with no 
>members, but having A and B as sibling lists.
>
>I have set up the lists with private archives.
>
>Now it is clear that members of A or B can access the archives of the 
>respective list, using their e-mail and password.
>
>But who and how can access the archives of C ?
>Ideally all members of A and C should


Only members of C plus anyone who authenticates with the admin or
moderator password of C.

This is a drawback of using sibling lists this way. You could make C an
actual umbrella with A and B as members and then posts would be
archived in the A and B archives, but you then have the duplication
issues.


>For some reason I can, but I'm the moderator and used the moderator 
>passwords and probably there are some cookies that make the browser work 
>anyhow.


Exactly.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Jun 15 03:03:17 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 01:03:17 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Injecting old lists into a new mailman aliases setup
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0EFCC0@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>


Hi,

I have followed http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/How+do+I+move+a+list+to+a+different+server-Mailman+installation.

and got to,

withlist -l -r fix_url listname

but I find that afetr running that the lists info has not been put into in /etc/mailman/aliases  file (Redhat default location) so obviously I cant send to the lists....

Also is there a way to tell mailman to look into ~lists and do them all at once?

regards


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 15 03:19:00 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 18:19:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Injecting old lists into a new mailman aliases
	setup
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E401B0EFCC0@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC1952011061418190007039ca2c4ff@MSAPIRO>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>I have followed http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/How+do+I+move+a+list+to+a+different+server-Mailman+installation.
>
>and got to,
>
>withlist -l -r fix_url listname
>
>but I find that afetr running that the lists info has not been put into in /etc/mailman/aliases  file (Redhat default location) so obviously I cant send to the lists....
>
>Also is there a way to tell mailman to look into ~lists and do them all at once?


The third section of that FAQ prior to the numbered steps contains the
paragraph:

  Finally, you also need to update the MTA aliases. Run
  <mailman>/bin/genaliases to generate the list (or actually
  update if you've configured Mailman for you MTA).


which should answer your question.

That entire FAQ article suffers from too many authors and too much
obsolete information. Maybe someone will clean it up.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From maspsr at sdu.dk  Thu Jun 16 08:52:03 2011
From: maspsr at sdu.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Peter_S=F8rensen?=)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 08:52:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question concerning list of members as
	relay_recipients in postfix
Message-ID: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B62467626B@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>

Hi,

I have recently migrated my old mailman installation to a new based on 2.1.14 with postfix
as MTA. The prior one used EXIM.

The mailman server is just part of a big mail complex and located on the inner side of my network


The other parts are GATEWAYS ( postfix based ) and backends ( EXCHANGE based). We use virtual
domains ( host around 100 ) domains.

Mail is routed GW => EXCHANGE => Mailman server, so if I have a list in a domain called  mydomain at xyz.com<mailto:mydomain at xyz.com>
and also a lot of users in that domain,  we need to make EXCHG forward any address it can't solve to the
Mailman server, to make sure that mail to the list mydomain at xyz.com<mailto:mydomain at xyz.com> is processed.

We could of course let the EXCHG system be authoritative for the domain but that would imply that all mailman addresses
Is added as contacts in EXCHG. I'm not the EXCHG guy and when I talk about this......

Because if this I get all garbage mail sent to mydomain at xyz.com<mailto:mydomain at xyz.com> . We have some sort of address control but I can't
Avoid some of the garbage.

Due to this I need to make the postfix on the mailman server aware of what addresses to handle and reject anything else.

This is not a big problem but before I dig into this and make a script I would ask if this is already done.

I have the listnames in virtual-mailman and can get a list of members with the script list_members.

Any hints ?


Best regards

Peter Sorensen/Univ.Of.South.Denmark/Email: maspsr at sdu.dk

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 16 17:30:26 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 08:30:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question concerning list of members
 as	relay_recipients in postfix
In-Reply-To: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B62467626B@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>
References: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B62467626B@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>
Message-ID: <4DFA2192.4090202@msapiro.net>

On 6/15/2011 11:52 PM, Peter S?rensen wrote:
> 
> Due to this I need to make the postfix on the mailman server aware of what addresses to handle and reject anything else.
> 
> This is not a big problem but before I dig into this and make a script I would ask if this is already done.
> 
> I have the listnames in virtual-mailman and can get a list of members with the script list_members.


I don't understand the problem? Doesn't Postfix already reject mail for
unknown recipients? The only Mailman recipients are the listname(-*)@...
addresses that Postfix already knows via data/virtual-mailman and
data/aliases. If there are also list members on the mailman server, they
should have mailboxes or be otherwise deliverable. The only Mailman
related mail to list members is outgoing mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From will at ashworthconsulting.com  Thu Jun 16 17:35:54 2011
From: will at ashworthconsulting.com (William Ashworth)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:35:54 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration to new server
Message-ID: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF25812@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>

Currently, a client of mine has a mailman list running since 2006 on a server with a company they no longer do business with. We're wanting to consolidate resources for their organization and migrate them to a cPanel web host that supports mailman.

Is there any concern about mailman versions between servers or anything else I might not be thinking of? What's the best way to go about moving them to another server supporting mailman?

I can say with fair certainty that we don't have root access to the old server, so I'm not sure what needs to be planned for during a migration between service providers. Thanks.

Regards,
Will Ashworth


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 16 18:18:09 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:18:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration to new server
In-Reply-To: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF25812@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
References: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF25812@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
Message-ID: <4DFA2CC1.1020401@msapiro.net>

On 6/16/2011 8:35 AM, William Ashworth wrote:
>
> Currently, a client of mine has a mailman list running since 2006 on
> a server with a company they no longer do business with. We're
> wanting to consolidate resources for their organization and migrate
> them to a cPanel web host that supports mailman.


cPanel will be a complication if the old server is not also cPanel.


> Is there any concern about mailman versions between servers or
> anything else I might not be thinking of? What's the best way to go
> about moving them to another server supporting mailman?


As long as both Mailman versions are 2.1.x and the target version is as
new or newer than the source version and the source version uses the
standard MemberAdaptor (i.e. no custom member database), this is
normally completely straightforward. It may be complicated if going from
non-cPanel to cPanel.


> I can say with fair certainty that we don't have root access to the
> old server, so I'm not sure what needs to be planned for during a
> migration between service providers. Thanks.


You need to stop Mailman on the old server or at least be sure that your
lists are 'quiet'. You need to get all the lists/*/config.pck files and
all the archives/private/*.mbox/*.mbox files from the old server and
move them to the new server.

The cPanel complication is that the *'s above are listnames and in a
non-cPanel installation, the listname of the listx at example.com list is
'listx', but in cPanel it is 'listx_example.com', so those directories
and files will need to be placed on the cPanel machine with their cPanel
names. I think this is the only complication.

After moving the files, you should run Mailman's bin/check_perms to fix
any permission issues, run fix_url and run 'bin/arch --wipe LISTNAME'
using the cPanel listnames for each list to rebuild the pipermail
archive on the new host.

I'm not sure exactly how to run fix_url in a cPanel installation or if
it will even work, and I'm not sure it's necessary if the domain names
aren't changing. I'm guessing for listx at example.com, you could run

  bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listx_example.com -u example.com

but this may leave the list with an incorrect host_name. Maybe it's best
to not run it, do one list as a test and if things are OK, just proceed.

There is other information in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2oA9>
and there are other FAQs about fix_url and cPanel

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brian at emwd.com  Thu Jun 16 17:45:41 2011
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:45:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration to new server
In-Reply-To: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF25812@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
References: <204FDE6E7E9A7C4FA78CB6943ED0C59E0CF25812@EXMBX05.netplexity.local>
Message-ID: <4DFA2525.3040609@emwd.com>

On 6/16/2011 11:35 AM, William Ashworth wrote:
> Currently, a client of mine has a mailman list running since 2006 on a server with a company they no longer do business with. We're wanting to consolidate resources for their organization and migrate them to a cPanel web host that supports mailman.
>
> Is there any concern about mailman versions between servers or anything else I might not be thinking of? What's the best way to go about moving them to another server supporting mailman?
>
> I can say with fair certainty that we don't have root access to the old server, so I'm not sure what needs to be planned for during a migration between service providers. Thanks.
>
> Regards,
> Will Ashworth
>

Hi Will:

We are a cpanel host that specializes in Mailman hosting. We have 
clients all the time migrating to our services from various different 
servers and versions and to date we have had no problems in moving them. 
All we ask for is the mbox file that governs their archives and the list 
configuration files that make up their list.

In case you haven't made a firm decision, I recommend checking us out at 
http://www.mailmanhost.com. When choosing any cpanel host that supports 
mailman, make sure that they are actually willing to support mailman AND 
that they are not throttling their smtp servers. A lot of cpanel hosts 
will limit how much email an account can send out per hour and that can 
cripple an active mailman list. Just some thoughts.

--
Brian Carpenter
Owner | EMWD&  dotList
brian at emwd.com | http://www.emwd.com | http://www.mailmanhost.com



From maspsr at sdu.dk  Thu Jun 16 21:06:05 2011
From: maspsr at sdu.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Peter_S=F8rensen?=)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 21:06:05 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question concerning list of members
	as	relay_recipients in postfix
In-Reply-To: <4DFA2192.4090202@msapiro.net>
References: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B62467626B@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>,
	<4DFA2192.4090202@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B62445178A@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>

The problem is that I use the GW as a smtp relay for the mailman server so when the
GW receive a mail for an address in mydomain at xyz.com this is forwarded to the EXCHG
system and because EXCHG is'nt authorative for the domain because we also handle mailman list
created in this domain unknown adresses is forwarded to the mailman server. If this is'nt for a list 
this would be redirectet back to the GW because the mail servers use this as a smtp relay. Therefore
I need to make this server aware of adsresses it should accept mail for.

Hope this clarify what I want to achieve.

regards

Peter
________________________________________
Fra: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sendt: 16. juni 2011 17:30
Til: Peter S?rensen
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Emne: Re: [Mailman-Users] Question concerning list of members as        relay_recipients in postfix

On 6/15/2011 11:52 PM, Peter S?rensen wrote:
>
> Due to this I need to make the postfix on the mailman server aware of what addresses to handle and reject anything else.
>
> This is not a big problem but before I dig into this and make a script I would ask if this is already done.
>
> I have the listnames in virtual-mailman and can get a list of members with the script list_members.


I don't understand the problem? Doesn't Postfix already reject mail for
unknown recipients? The only Mailman recipients are the listname(-*)@...
addresses that Postfix already knows via data/virtual-mailman and
data/aliases. If there are also list members on the mailman server, they
should have mailboxes or be otherwise deliverable. The only Mailman
related mail to list members is outgoing mail.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 16 22:04:47 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 13:04:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question concerning list of members
 as	relay_recipients in postfix
In-Reply-To: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B62445178A@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>
References: <07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B62467626B@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>,
	<4DFA2192.4090202@msapiro.net>
	<07734B44E9BBED4EAAD1F6968D18C004B62445178A@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk>
Message-ID: <4DFA61DF.2020401@msapiro.net>

On 6/16/2011 12:06 PM, Peter S?rensen wrote:
> The problem is that I use the GW as a smtp relay for the mailman server so when the
> GW receive a mail for an address in mydomain at xyz.com this is forwarded to the EXCHG
> system and because EXCHG is'nt authorative for the domain because we also handle mailman list
> created in this domain unknown adresses is forwarded to the mailman server. If this is'nt for a list 
> this would be redirectet back to the GW because the mail servers use this as a smtp relay. Therefore
> I need to make this server aware of adsresses it should accept mail for.
> 
> Hope this clarify what I want to achieve.

and previously:
>> Due to this I need to make the postfix on the mailman server aware of what addresses to handle and reject anything else.


So now it seems you are saying you need to make the postfix on the
gateway server aware of what addresses to handle.

You can use Mailman's data/virtual-mailman.db directly in
relay_recipient_maps on the gateway server.

You could create a script on the Mailman server containing

#!/bin/sh
/usr/sbin/postmap $1

followed by an rsync or whatever to update the file on the gateway

and put

POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/path/to/script'

in mm_cfg.py to keep the files in sync.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ronnie at enyeheri.com  Fri Jun 17 16:22:31 2011
From: ronnie at enyeheri.com (Ekesa Rhonnie)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:22:31 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALgK+Ox4tWVHiNyY0sAJFwTCgAAAEAAAAPuHoXQQIi5CsYksoo/D6RwBAAAAAA==@enyeheri.com>

Hello,

 

I have a mailing list on my Cpanel, but I don't want to log in every time to
release the mails

 

Is there any automatic way to release the mails other than me as the admin
having to log in now and then?

 

Description: Ronnie

 


From lijilong1979 at 163.com  Fri Jun 17 22:16:06 2011
From: lijilong1979 at 163.com (Victor)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 04:16:06 +0800 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no response while posting a message
Message-ID: <303eb03f.abbd.1309f3f08d2.Coremail.lijilong1979@163.com>

Hello,

I installed mailman successfully. I created a mailing list named mailman. Then I subscribed to this list and I received the confirmed and welcome email. However, when I posted a message to this mailing list, nothing happened. Nothing wrong appeared in the mailman log files.

The urlhost is cs.heilongjiang.edu and the mailhost is cs.heilongjiang.edu. The mailing list address ismailman at cs.heilongjiang.edu. I think the problem results from the mailing list address. Could you please give me some advice?

Thank you very much!



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 18 04:49:42 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:49:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no response while posting a message
In-Reply-To: <303eb03f.abbd.1309f3f08d2.Coremail.lijilong1979@163.com>
References: <303eb03f.abbd.1309f3f08d2.Coremail.lijilong1979@163.com>
Message-ID: <4DFC1246.8040600@msapiro.net>

On 6/17/2011 1:16 PM, Victor wrote:
> 
> I installed mailman successfully. I created a mailing list named
> mailman. Then I subscribed to this list and I received the confirmed
> and welcome email. However, when I posted a message to this mailing
> list, nothing happened. Nothing wrong appeared in the mailman log
> files.
> 
> The urlhost is cs.heilongjiang.edu and the mailhost is
> cs.heilongjiang.edu. The mailing list address
> ismailman at cs.heilongjiang.edu. I think the problem results from the
> mailing list address. Could you please give me some advice?


What is your MTA? Does it need aliases? Did you install them? What's in
your MTA log?

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>, in particular items 3 and 9.

Also see <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/mail-server.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 18 04:54:42 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:54:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALgK+Ox4tWVHiNyY0sAJFwTCgAAAEAAAAPuHoXQQIi5CsYksoo/D6RwBAAAAAA==@enyeheri.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALgK+Ox4tWVHiNyY0sAJFwTCgAAAEAAAAPuHoXQQIi5CsYksoo/D6RwBAAAAAA==@enyeheri.com>
Message-ID: <4DFC1372.8070108@msapiro.net>

Ekesa Rhonnie wrote:

> I have a mailing list on my Cpanel, but I don't want to log in every time to
> release the mails
> 
> Is there any automatic way to release the mails other than me as the admin
> having to log in now and then?


You need to adjust whatever list settings are causing the posts to be
held. What is the 'reason' (in the admindb interface and the notice to
the admin) why the post is held?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jfrizzel at bates.edu  Sat Jun 18 16:20:55 2011
From: jfrizzel at bates.edu (Jane Frizzell)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:20:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can i see alist of mailman messages waiting to be
	delivered
Message-ID: <4DFCB447.7080803@bates.edu>

I am trying to see what messages are waiting to be delivered by mailman 
to my lists. We just reconfigured the mail system and want to see what 
is waiting before we restart.

Thank you
Jane

-- 
Jane Frizzell		Network Services Administrator
Bates College Information and Library Services
jfrizzel at bates.edu	786-6457	110 Russell St


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 18 17:47:49 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:47:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can i see alist of mailman messages waiting to
	bedelivered
In-Reply-To: <4DFCB447.7080803@bates.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1952011061808474909535458b56a@MSAPIRO>

Jane Frizzell wrote:

>I am trying to see what messages are waiting to be delivered by mailman 
>to my lists. We just reconfigured the mail system and want to see what 
>is waiting before we restart.


Posts which have arrived but are not yet processed by Mailman are in
qfiles/in/

Notices, etc. generated by mailman but not yet processed are in
qfiles/virgin/

Messages processed and waiting to be delivered to the MTA are in
qfiles/out/

The actual queue entries can be examined with bin/dumpdb or
bin/show_qfiles.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cp at ccil.org  Sun Jun 19 22:18:37 2011
From: cp at ccil.org (Chuck Peters)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 16:18:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocked By Earthlink
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=17WEaxoKpCSWqSQ_U_xq6YMPbkw@mail.gmail.com>

According to earthlink our newsletter "may be re-added in the future should
the server be discovered to again be open for relay".  Just one big problem
with that statement, we have never been an open relay!

We use mailman for our StarryMessenger.net newsletter and send it out from
starrymessenger at starryskies.net (Google Apps hosted).  No one is allowed to
post to the list and we also set it up so that our own posts are moderated
to insure no spam ever gets through to the list.
http://support.earthlink.net/articles/email/email-blocked-by-earthlink.phpsays
the block may occur for several reasons:
EarthLink has received numerous complaints about the server that handles
your email.
The IP address of your email server is dynamic (changes daily)
Your IP address has been listed as spam by industry references.
Your rDNS (Reverse DNS) is not up-to-date and accurate. Your rDNS is the
hostname associated with the IP address of your email server and should look
similar to ?mail.example.com?.

That doesn't say anything about open relays, but the email below does, and
of course we never heard about any of these so called "several complaints."
 The other 3 items listed don't apply, ie not a dynamic IP, rdns is setup
and we have never been on a DNSBL.

We migrated the server to a VPS from speakeasy and added DKIM a couple of
months ago, but other than that it has been the same exim4 and mailman setup
for years.  And of course we keep the software updated and upgrade the
distribution software.

Later the earthlink page says to include the bounce message, and just how
are we supposed to do that with mailing list software that is designed to
handle these bounces?

This isn't even a discussion list where it would be more likely for this
sort of thing to be flagged as an open relay.  A quick search on google
for earthlink feedback loop brings up pages not hosted by earthlink.  So
does anyone have suggestions how to get this mess straight to avoid these
problems in the future?


A bit of our exim log:
2011-06-18 06:36:43 1QXnsP-0000sh-LC ** ****@earthlink.net R=dnslookup
T=remote_smtp: SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL FROM:<
starrymessenger-bounces at starrymessenger.net> SIZE=22095: host
mx4.earthlink.net [209.86.93.229]: 550 IP 68.68.99.81 is blocked by
EarthLink. Go to earthlink.net/block for details.


The auto reply to our request to be unlocked:

Hello starrymessenger at starryskies.net,

We have removed the block on mail originating from 68.68.99.81,
please allow 2-24 hours for normal email traffic to resume.
Please understand that IPs previously removed from the
EarthLink Correct Connect database may be re-added in the
future should the server be discovered to again be open for
relay.

Regards,

--
Earthlink Abuse Department
blockedbyearthlink at abuse.earthlink.net
http://www.earthlink.net/about/policies/use.faces


Thanks,
Chuck

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 19 23:00:45 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 14:00:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocked By Earthlink
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=17WEaxoKpCSWqSQ_U_xq6YMPbkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=17WEaxoKpCSWqSQ_U_xq6YMPbkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DFE637D.9070603@msapiro.net>

On 6/19/2011 1:18 PM, Chuck Peters wrote:
> 
> Later the earthlink page says to include the bounce message, and just how
> are we supposed to do that with mailing list software that is designed to
> handle these bounces?


The Exim log entry should suffice, but given how brain dead earthlink
sometimes seems, it may not. If you need an actual DSN, you can be sure
that the list's Bounce processing -> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is
Yes and wait for an earthlink member to have delivery disabled, at which
time the owner will receive a copy of the DSN with the disabled notice.


> This isn't even a discussion list where it would be more likely for this
> sort of thing to be flagged as an open relay.  A quick search on google
> for earthlink feedback loop brings up pages not hosted by earthlink.  So
> does anyone have suggestions how to get this mess straight to avoid these
> problems in the future?


I've been blocked by earthlink. At one point, I was sending my personal
mail from a machine with a fixed IP and full circle DNS, but with a
'generic' FQDN like netblock-68-183-193-239.value.net, and earthlink
blocked me. I changed the name and had the rDNS PTR changed to
msapiro.net, and they eventually unblocked me. I'm not sure if earthlink
has blocked me on other occasions or not, but I have also been blocked
without justification by Comcast and Microsoft (Hotmail and MSN).

Earthlink, like many other ISPs, will not actually tell you why you were
blocked because they think it gives away their secret spam fighting
algorithms. The only thing you can do is be sure your mail server
follows best practices as outlined in Section 2.1 of RFC 1912
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1912>. Also see
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward-confirmed_reverse_DNS>.

Publishing SPF records may help, particularly with Microsoft.

If you are repeatedly blocked by an ISP, it is sometimes effective to
have your list member who is their customer do the complaining. Some
ISPs are more willing to actually listen to their paying customer than
to someone they write off as a spammer. To do this effectively, you may
need to help your user with drafting complaints and interpreting
responses, but it can get the ISPs attention.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jun 20 08:01:18 2011
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:01:18 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Blocked By Earthlink
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=17WEaxoKpCSWqSQ_U_xq6YMPbkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=17WEaxoKpCSWqSQ_U_xq6YMPbkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <878vsxf3dd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Chuck Peters writes:

 > According to earthlink our newsletter "may be re-added in the future should
 > the server be discovered to again be open for relay".  Just one big problem
 > with that statement, we have never been an open relay!

I have confirmed that the server at the IP you list is not currently
open to relay by me.  However, it's possible in theory that the host
(which seems to be registered to you according to whois) has been
cracked by somebody and is intermittently open to relay.

You do understand that Mailman has nothing to do with being an open
relay, right?  "Open relay" means that your smtpd (Exim) will accept
mail from anywhere and send it anywhere.  OTOH, it seems quite likely
that as you say your server has never been an open relay and it's
Earthlink that doesn't know (and probably doesn't care) what it is
talking about.

Note that AFAIK Earthlink is 100% within its rights to refuse mail
from anybody for any reason.[1]  Your only real recourse is to
convince their stakeholders (especially, as Mark suggests, your
subscribers who are their paying customers) that their ISP is making
delivery of *their* mail unreliable (e.g., IP-based blocks means that
Earthlink doesn't know or care if it's from their mothers :-), and
deliberately making it difficult for you to ensure reliable delivery
of mail they have requested from you.

 > We migrated the server to a VPS from speakeasy and added DKIM a
 > couple of

Uh, did you know this?

steve at uwakimon ~ $ host speakeasy.com
speakeasy.com has address 207.217.125.50
speakeasy.com mail is handled by 5 mx01-dom.earthlink.net.
speakeasy.com mail is handled by 5 mx00-dom.earthlink.net.

A complaint to the Federal Trade Commission about predatory practices
may be in order.  <0.5 wink />

 > months ago, but other than that it has been the same exim4 and mailman setup
 > for years.  And of course we keep the software updated and upgrade the
 > distribution software.

The IP presumably changed, and therefore you may have been screwed by
poor management of a former user of the IP at the VPS, or perhaps the
IP was allocated by the VPS's ISP.  Ie, *that IP* could easily have
been an open relay in March (or whenever), and you simply inherited
the Earthlink block.

For obvious reasons, ISPs tend to be pretty tight with that kind of
information when allocating IPs to new customers.

 > Later the earthlink page says to include the bounce message, and just how
 > are we supposed to do that with mailing list software that is designed to
 > handle these bounces?

As Mark says, you can manually set copies of the bounces to go to
owner.  This is arguably a flaw in Mailman.  In theory it should be
possible to analyze the mail and send a copy to the list owner for
many "administrative" bounces.  In particular a 550 response as in
your bounce message is an administrative bounce.  I don't know how
expensive, either in programmer effort at write-time or CPU cycles at
runtime, this would be though, or what percent of administrative
bounces could be practically caught.



Footnotes: 
[1]  I happen to agree with that as social policy/law, but that's
beside the point unless you want to discuss with me.



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Mon Jun 20 13:30:33 2011
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 06:30:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocked By Earthlink
In-Reply-To: <878vsxf3dd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CA249989.ABFF5%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 6/20/11 1:01 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull at stephen at xemacs.org wrote:

>> We migrated the server to a VPS from speakeasy and added DKIM a
>> couple of
> 
> Uh, did you know this?
> 
> steve at uwakimon ~ $ host speakeasy.com
> speakeasy.com has address 207.217.125.50
> speakeasy.com mail is handled by 5 mx01-dom.earthlink.net.
> speakeasy.com mail is handled by 5 mx00-dom.earthlink.net.

Speakeasy the ISP is speakeasy.net. Speakeasy.com is an unrelated software
vendor. While I assume the OP is talking about Speakeasy.net, I do not see
VPS mentioned as one of the services they offer (note that I am a very
satisfied Speakeast.net DSL customer).

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jun 20 16:13:47 2011
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 23:13:47 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocked By Earthlink
In-Reply-To: <CA249989.ABFF5%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
References: <878vsxf3dd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<CA249989.ABFF5%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <87fwn4a8v8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Larry Stone writes:

 > Speakeasy the ISP is speakeasy.net.

Ah, thank you for the correction.


From marci at ppio.com  Mon Jun 20 18:00:20 2011
From: marci at ppio.com (marci   Boskie's Mama =^..^=)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:00:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] posts repeating in digest for some users
In-Reply-To: <mailman.42.1308564003.10699.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.42.1308564003.10699.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <20110620160027.B423488196@clientsmtp2.loosefoot.com>

  Hey guys,Got a question :
    I just received email from a couple of my list members saying 
that they are getting repeats of some posts in their digest version 
on the mail .
  As moderator, I subscribe to both the individual mail and the 
digest  and I am not seeing repeated posts .
  I ve requested that  they send me a copy of the digest they are 
getting so I can see what is happening.. but the two that I have 
heard from are both on Bellsouth .
   Is it possible that there is something  with Bellsouth that would 
cause some posts in a digest issue to repeat for their customers but 
not for anyone else.. ? ( eg. Post # 3 in a digest would be repeated 
twice  but only for some users )
   I was under the impression that the digest sent out would  be 
identical for everyone.
Marci 


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 20 18:51:59 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 09:51:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] posts repeating in digest for some users
In-Reply-To: <20110620160027.B423488196@clientsmtp2.loosefoot.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520110620095159091136e7918a@MSAPIRO>

marci   Boskie's Mama =^..^= wrote:

>    I just received email from a couple of my list members saying 
>that they are getting repeats of some posts in their digest version 
>on the mail .
>  As moderator, I subscribe to both the individual mail and the 
>digest  and I am not seeing repeated posts .
>  I ve requested that  they send me a copy of the digest they are 
>getting so I can see what is happening.. but the two that I have 
>heard from are both on Bellsouth .
>   Is it possible that there is something  with Bellsouth that would 
>cause some posts in a digest issue to repeat for their customers but 
>not for anyone else.. ? ( eg. Post # 3 in a digest would be repeated 
>twice  but only for some users )
>   I was under the impression that the digest sent out would  be 
>identical for everyone.


There are two digest formats, plain text and MIME. The plain digest is
identical for all users it is sent to, and likewise the MIME digest is
identical for all users it is sent to, but the two are different. In
the plain digest, all messages are flattened to plain text and any
non-plain text attachments are stored aside and replaced by links,
while in the MIME digest, each message in its entirety an attachment
to the digest. The rendering of the MIME digest is heavily dependent
upon the MUA (mail client) used to read it.

However, I suspect that there is in fact no Mailman problem. Do the
duplicated messages appear twice in the table of contents? If so, they
were probably actual duplicate posts and are duplicated in everyones
digest. But, my guess as to what's actually happening is that there
are two posts in the digest, one of which quotes the other in its
entirety and thus the content of the first post appears twice in the
digest and appears to be a duplicate, particularly in cases where the
original content in the second post is no more than "me too".

This is a real issue with the plain digest when people quote
excessively. It can be almost impossible to find the original content
amongst all the quotes of quotes of quotes. It gets even worse when
digest members quote the entire digest in their replies. I catch most
of those by having a fairly small max_message_size.

I have not found a good solution to this. If any one has a reliable,
programatic way to determine the ratio of original text to quoted text
in a post, I'd consider implementing a feature to hold posts where the
ratio is too low.

I ask people not to quote excessively, and I have even sent copies of
the plain digest to major offenders. This may work for a post or two,
but they soon return to there old ways. A major contributing factor is
MUAs that encourage top posting and quote entire messages without
making it clear that this is being done.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ksteo at otenet.gr  Mon Jun 20 16:03:15 2011
From: ksteo at otenet.gr (Kostas Theodoropoulos)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 17:03:15 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and greeks in footer.
Message-ID: <C56B4FC23D994B85BF7B0DC6DE8AFEF3@kostasPC>

Hello to all. I run a mailing list using mailman version 2.1.14 with cpanel as administratore. This list speaks greeks. How ever when i add some instructions for the list in the footer i don?t have any luck. i see all the greeks in the footer like as #######.
Thanks a lot for any help.
--Kostas--
     

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 20 19:37:05 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 10:37:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and greeks in footer.
In-Reply-To: <C56B4FC23D994B85BF7B0DC6DE8AFEF3@kostasPC>
References: <C56B4FC23D994B85BF7B0DC6DE8AFEF3@kostasPC>
Message-ID: <4DFF8541.7050605@msapiro.net>

On 6/20/2011 7:03 AM, Kostas Theodoropoulos wrote:
> Hello to all. I run a mailing list using mailman version 2.1.14 with
> cpanel as administratore. This list speaks greeks. How ever when i
> add some instructions for the list in the footer i don?t have any
> luck. i see all the greeks in the footer like as #######. Thanks a
> lot for any help. --Kostas--


There is no Greek translation in current Mailman. There may be someone
working on one (see <http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Languages>), but
nothing has been submitted.

I therefore suspect that even though discussion on your list is in
Greek, the list's preferred_language in Mailman is English, and thus
Mailman's character set for the web interface, the digest, the archives
and list footers is us-ascii.

There are no supported languages in Mailman 2.1.14 that use iso-8859-7
as a character set. There are several that use utf-8. These are Arabic,
Catalan, Galician, Hebrew, Slovak, Serbian, Ukrainian, Vietnamese,
Chinese (China) and Chinese (Taiwan).

Thus, you could set the list's preferred_language to one of the utf-8
languages, and it would then support Greek characters in footers, but
the web interface and archives and digest boiler plate would all be in
that language, and that would not be a satisfactory solution.

If your Mailman installation is hosted, there's not much you can do
beyond contacting the current Greek language champion (see the above
wiki page) to see if a translation can be submitted for the next
release, or perhaps submitting your own translation.

If this is your own server, you can change the character set for English
to utf-8 by adding a line like

add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8')

to /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py and restarting
Mailman.

Even if this is a hosted server, you may be able to convince the host to
do the above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mcnutt at utk.edu  Mon Jun 20 21:53:09 2011
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (McNutt Jr, William R)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 19:53:09 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Moderator Getting Bad Link
Message-ID: <0CD7A72044B75D478D36624D96C5D44113A016D9@kmbx1.utk.tennessee.edu>

I have a server named delta.x.x.x running Mailman.  One of my lists is sending moderator requests out with a bad link in it.

The link reads  :
At your convenience, visit:

   http://delta/mailman/admindb/tt

to approve or deny the request.

It SHOULD point to http://delta.x.x.x/mailman/admindb/admin/tt

Where can I go to correct this?


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 20 22:12:34 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:12:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Moderator Getting Bad Link
In-Reply-To: <0CD7A72044B75D478D36624D96C5D44113A016D9@kmbx1.utk.tennessee.edu>
Message-ID: <PC195201106201312340145bb25e673@MSAPIRO>

McNutt Jr, William R wrote:

>I have a server named delta.x.x.x running Mailman.  One of my lists is sending moderator requests out with a bad link in it.
>
>The link reads  :
>At your convenience, visit:
>
>   http://delta/mailman/admindb/tt
>
>to approve or deny the request.
>
>It SHOULD point to http://delta.x.x.x/mailman/admindb/admin/tt
>
>Where can I go to correct this?


Assuming your Mailman installation is properly configured, you can run

 bin/withlist -l -r fix_url tt -u delta.x.x.x

If delta.x.x.x is the value of DEFAULT_URL_HOST, you can skip the -u
delta.x.x.x at the end.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9> and/or run

 bin/fix_url.py

for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jaw171 at pitt.edu  Tue Jun 21 22:32:19 2011
From: jaw171 at pitt.edu (Jeff White)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 16:32:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix and ownership of the alias file
Message-ID: <4E00FFD3.40102@pitt.edu>

I recently migrated all my lists to a new Solaris system running 
2.1.14+patch but I'm having trouble determining who should own the 
aliases file and what uid/gid is used for what.

Apache httpd runs as the user httpd
Mailman runs as the user mailman
Postfix runs as the user postfix

I compiled with:

./configure --with-username=mailman --with-cgi-gid=httpd 
--with-groupname=mailman --with-mail-gid=nobody 
--with-var-prefix=/var/mailman --with-urlhost=list.pitt.edu 
--with-mailhost=list.pitt.edu


Aliases is owned by root:mailman

With this setup everything on the command line works such as 
bin/new_list and I can send mail to lists.  What does not work is 
creating lists via the Web interface which gives:
command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias /var/mailman/data/aliases (status: 
1, Not owner)

If I change the ownership of the aliases to httpd:mailman that error 
goes away and I can create lists via the Web, but mail stops flowing with:
Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be 
executed as group "nobody", but the system's mail server executed the 
mail script as group "httpd".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the 
script as group "nobody", or re-run configure,  providing the command 
line option `--with-mail-gid=httpd'.

The postfix guys in irc said NOT to have it owned by the user postfix, 
so I'm confused.  Who should own the aliases file?  What should my 
--with-mail-gid be?

The errors suggest that the ownership should be httpd:mailman with 
--with-mail-gid=httpd, but that seems silly.  I think it should be 
postfix:mailman and --with-mail-gid=postfix but then how would Apache, 
running as httpd, be able to do anything?

-- 
Jeff White
Linux/Unix Systems Engineer
University of Pittsburgh - CSSD
Jaw171 at pitt.edu


From ho3ard at fastmail.net  Wed Jun 22 04:28:11 2011
From: ho3ard at fastmail.net (hnk)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 21:28:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to increase the frequency of moderation request
	notifications
Message-ID: <4E01533B.4000002@fastmail.net>

Greetings, new list member here, just finished with a complete read of 
the FAQ and a search of the archives, so please forgive my human 
failings if I missed this.

Currently I manage a list of about 300 members, using Mailman 2.1.11, 
that is on "emergency hold" due to a spam attack, and I would like to 
leave it that way for the summer as the effort it relates to is seasonal 
and the percentage of appropriate posts drops off at this time of year.

Unfortunately, one moderation alert every morning for the previous 24 
hours is not cutting it.  Is there a way to receive a request for every 
post? Or at least increase the frequency of the alerts?

Clarifying questions welcome if necessary.

Thanks for any help!

-HK, Chicago

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 22 07:31:40 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 22:31:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix and ownership of the alias file
In-Reply-To: <4E00FFD3.40102@pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1952011062122314000937192e645@MSAPIRO>

Jeff White wrote:

>I recently migrated all my lists to a new Solaris system running 
>2.1.14+patch but I'm having trouble determining who should own the 
>aliases file and what uid/gid is used for what.
>
>Apache httpd runs as the user httpd
>Mailman runs as the user mailman
>Postfix runs as the user postfix
>
>I compiled with:
>
>./configure --with-username=mailman --with-cgi-gid=httpd 
>--with-groupname=mailman --with-mail-gid=nobody 
>--with-var-prefix=/var/mailman --with-urlhost=list.pitt.edu 
>--with-mailhost=list.pitt.edu
>
>
>Aliases is owned by root:mailman


Normally for Mailman/Postfix integration, Mailman is configured with
--with-mail-gid=mailman and data/aliases.db is owned by
mailman:mailman. The owner of data/aliases is not important, but the
group should be 'mailman'.


>With this setup everything on the command line works such as 
>bin/new_list and I can send mail to lists.  What does not work is 
>creating lists via the Web interface which gives:
>command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias /var/mailman/data/aliases (status: 
>1, Not owner)
>
>If I change the ownership of the aliases to httpd:mailman that error 
>goes away and I can create lists via the Web, but mail stops flowing with:
>Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be 
>executed as group "nobody", but the system's mail server executed the 
>mail script as group "httpd".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the 
>script as group "nobody", or re-run configure,  providing the command 
>line option `--with-mail-gid=httpd'.


Are you sure you mean 'aliases'? Normally, only the ownership of
aliases.db is significant. See the DELIVERY RIGHTS section in 'man 8
local'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 22 07:48:41 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 22:48:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to increase the frequency of moderation
	requestnotifications
In-Reply-To: <4E01533B.4000002@fastmail.net>
Message-ID: <PC19520110621224841023498abfe13@MSAPIRO>

hnk <ho3ard at fastmail.net>wrote:
>
>Currently I manage a list of about 300 members, using Mailman 2.1.11, 
>that is on "emergency hold" due to a spam attack, and I would like to 
>leave it that way for the summer as the effort it relates to is seasonal 
>and the percentage of appropriate posts drops off at this time of year.
>
>Unfortunately, one moderation alert every morning for the previous 24 
>hours is not cutting it.  Is there a way to receive a request for every 
>post? Or at least increase the frequency of the alerts?


You can't receive a notice of every post held for emergency moderation
without modifying the code in Mailman/Handlers/Emergency.py.

The daily notice to the admin is sent by cron/checkdbs. You can adjust
the schedule for this job in Mailman's crontab to run it as frequently
as you want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Jun 22 03:49:37 2011
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:49:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Public to Private
Message-ID: <auto-000017669195@mailfront3.g2host.com>

I have a list that had an archive, which was public.  I need to 
change it to private.  Is there anything I have to do besides 
changing the setting under archives / ?

Dave


From odhiambo at gmail.com  Wed Jun 22 08:54:26 2011
From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 09:54:26 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Public to Private
In-Reply-To: <auto-000017669195@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000017669195@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikG-XVk8k0TWnHT-jM-aay4BLOPkw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 04:49, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:

> I have a list that had an archive, which was public.  I need to change it
> to private.  Is there anything I have to do besides changing the setting
> under archives / ?
>

I think changing that still leaves the actual archives to be "public"
(mailmain/archives/public/LISTNAME).
As such I think you also need to regenerate the archives using bin/arch
--wipe LISTNAME.

I am not sure this is a necessary step though, but you can help enlighten me
also, by checking where your archive files are located at the moment:)


-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 22 16:47:46 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 07:47:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Public to Private
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikG-XVk8k0TWnHT-jM-aay4BLOPkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201106220747460906d2c73938@MSAPIRO>

Odhiambo Washington wrote:
>
>On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 04:49, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a list that had an archive, which was public.  I need to change it
>> to private.  Is there anything I have to do besides changing the setting
>> under archives / ?
>>
>
>I think changing that still leaves the actual archives to be "public"
>(mailmain/archives/public/LISTNAME).
>As such I think you also need to regenerate the archives using bin/arch
>--wipe LISTNAME.


That is not necessary. The archives are always in archives/private/.
The only thing in archives/public is a symlink from
archives/public/listname to archives/private/listname and a second
symlink from archives/public/listname.mbox to
archives/private/listname.mbox if PUBLIC_MBOX = Yes in mm_cfg.py.
These symlinks are created or removed as an archive is changed from
private to public or vice versa.

If an archive is changed from public to private, the only issue is that
any saved 'pipermail' URLs will no longer work. If it is changed from
private to public, saved 'private' URLs will still work, but will
still require authentication.

Rebuilding the archive with bin/arch --wipe has no effect on any of
this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From odhiambo at gmail.com  Wed Jun 22 17:42:03 2011
From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 18:42:03 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Public to Private
In-Reply-To: <PC195201106220747460906d2c73938@MSAPIRO>
References: <BANLkTikG-XVk8k0TWnHT-jM-aay4BLOPkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201106220747460906d2c73938@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=V8gYJ7gcfM8b=t2e+mQd9w+PyqQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 17:47, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> >
> >On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 04:49, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I have a list that had an archive, which was public.  I need to change
> it
> >> to private.  Is there anything I have to do besides changing the setting
> >> under archives / ?
> >>
> >
> >I think changing that still leaves the actual archives to be "public"
> >(mailmain/archives/public/LISTNAME).
> >As such I think you also need to regenerate the archives using bin/arch
> >--wipe LISTNAME.
>
>
> That is not necessary. The archives are always in archives/private/.
> The only thing in archives/public is a symlink from
> archives/public/listname to archives/private/listname and a second
> symlink from archives/public/listname.mbox to
> archives/private/listname.mbox if PUBLIC_MBOX = Yes in mm_cfg.py.
> These symlinks are created or removed as an archive is changed from
> private to public or vice versa.
>
> If an archive is changed from public to private, the only issue is that
> any saved 'pipermail' URLs will no longer work. If it is changed from
> private to public, saved 'private' URLs will still work, but will
> still require authentication.
>
> Rebuilding the archive with bin/arch --wipe has no effect on any of
> this.
>
>

Thank you for clarifying this. Now I know better that yesterday.


-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.

From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 25 03:10:31 2011
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 04:10:31 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
Message-ID: <COL105-DS3A37CD90E0614BE18F58EFB550@phx.gbl>

Hi,

we are a local TV station & newspaper having a mailing list with 2+ Million Subscribers.. what is the best server configuration (CPU, RAM) that can handle this list? taking in consideration that only 1 daily email is sent to the subscribers..

Thank you ..

From etharp at earthlink.net  Sat Jun 25 13:44:40 2011
From: etharp at earthlink.net (ed)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 07:44:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS3A37CD90E0614BE18F58EFB550@phx.gbl>
References: <COL105-DS3A37CD90E0614BE18F58EFB550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4E05CA28.5020907@earthlink.net>

On 06/24/2011 09:10 PM, Khalil Abbas wrote:
> Hi,
>
> we are a local TV station&  newspaper having a mailing list with 2+ Million Subscribers.. what is the best server configuration (CPU, RAM) that can handle this list? taking in consideration that only 1 daily email is sent to the subscribers..
>
> Thank you ..
I am sure others can answer better, but budget is the primary (and 
missing) consideration in this equation.
The fastest and most CPU cores and as much memory as possible in a 64 
bit system is the answer.
If you MUST sacrifice cpu or memory, then balance as well as possible, 
and let more memory win over more CPU speed.

From dragon42 at mail.ru  Fri Jun 24 15:29:56 2011
From: dragon42 at mail.ru (Aranel Doriath)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:29:56 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Postfix & virtual domains
Message-ID: <E1Qa6SK-000158-00.dragon42-mail-ru@f30.mail.ru>

Hi all. 
I have Centos 5.5 server with Postfix, configured to work in AD, and i want to add the mailman aliases:

main.cf:
virtual_alias_maps = ldap:/etc/postfix/ldap-groups.cf, ldap:/etc/postfix/ldap-groups2.cf, hash:/etc/postfix/valias?

/etc/postfix/aliases looks like:
mailman at pmz.local? ? ? ? ? ? ? "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"

?But i recieved this:

"|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"@melchior.kolos.local> (expanded from <mailman at pmz.local>): unknown user: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman" ?

How can i connect Mailman to Postfix? 
P.S. Sorry for my English :)

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 25 19:28:38 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 10:28:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Postfix & virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <E1Qa6SK-000158-00.dragon42-mail-ru@f30.mail.ru>
References: <E1Qa6SK-000158-00.dragon42-mail-ru@f30.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <4E061AC6.3000703@msapiro.net>

On 6/24/2011 6:29 AM, Aranel Doriath wrote:
> Hi all. 
> I have Centos 5.5 server with Postfix, configured to work in AD, and i want to add the mailman aliases:
> 
> main.cf:
> virtual_alias_maps = ldap:/etc/postfix/ldap-groups.cf, ldap:/etc/postfix/ldap-groups2.cf, hash:/etc/postfix/valias?
> 
> /etc/postfix/aliases looks like:
> mailman at pmz.local              "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"


This alias is not correct. You should consider Mailman/Postfix
integration as discussed at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>. In any case, the left
part of the alias (in alias_maps) should be a local_part only and
terminated with a colon as

mailman:    "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"

If you need virtual mappings (virtual_alias_maps), those entries look like

mailman at pmz.local      mailman

and map the virtual domain address mailman at pmz.local to the local
address mailman which is in turn mapped to the pipe by alias_maps.


> ?But i recieved this:
> 
> "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"@melchior.kolos.local> (expanded from <mailman at pmz.local>): unknown user: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman" ?
> 
> How can i connect Mailman to Postfix? 


It is hard to say for sure without at least the output of 'postconf -n',
but it looks like you may have a file containing aliases that belongs in
alias_maps included in virtual_alias_maps instead or in addition.

There are many threads on this subject in the archives of this list. See
the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIA9> for information on searching
the archives.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 25 19:39:05 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 10:39:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS3A37CD90E0614BE18F58EFB550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1952011062510390505467ede1927@MSAPIRO>

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>we are a local TV station & newspaper having a mailing list with 2+ Million Subscribers.. what is the best server configuration (CPU, RAM) that can handle this list? taking in consideration that only 1 daily email is sent to the subscribers..


Consider that likely much more than half the impact is going to be from
the MTA rather than Mailman. Perhaps you should be asking on a list
specific to your MTA.

I would suggest at a minimum that you could reduce your Mailman impact
by breaking up your list into perhaps 240 roughly equal sub-lists and
sending the post to one list at a time at 6 minute intervals. Then if
your system can complete delivery of the post from one sub-list to its
8500+- members in under 6 minutes, you should be OK.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 25 20:15:31 2011
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 21:15:31 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011062510390505467ede1927@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1952011062510390505467ede1927@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <COL105-DS3406E733841B55A42B14BFB550@phx.gbl>

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS =5 WOULD BE OK? OR SHOULD I REDUCE OR INCREASE IT FOR HOTMAIL 
AND YAHOO TO ACCEPT OUR MESSAGES?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 8:39 PM
To: Khalil Abbas ; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>we are a local TV station & newspaper having a mailing list with 2+ Million 
>Subscribers.. what is the best server configuration (CPU, RAM) that can 
>handle this list? taking in consideration that only 1 daily email is sent 
>to the subscribers..


Consider that likely much more than half the impact is going to be from
the MTA rather than Mailman. Perhaps you should be asking on a list
specific to your MTA.

I would suggest at a minimum that you could reduce your Mailman impact
by breaking up your list into perhaps 240 roughly equal sub-lists and
sending the post to one list at a time at 6 minute intervals. Then if
your system can complete delivery of the post from one sub-list to its
8500+- members in under 6 minutes, you should be OK.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cpz at tuunq.com  Sat Jun 25 20:53:11 2011
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 11:53:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS3406E733841B55A42B14BFB550@phx.gbl>
References: <PC1952011062510390505467ede1927@MSAPIRO>
	<COL105-DS3406E733841B55A42B14BFB550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4E062E97.30502@tuunq.com>

On 6/25/2011 11:15 AM, Khalil Abbas wrote:
> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS =5 WOULD BE OK? OR SHOULD I REDUCE OR INCREASE IT FOR HOTMAIL
> AND YAHOO TO ACCEPT OUR MESSAGES?

Have you read the FAQ sections on performance and searched the archive for 
discussions? There have been a few about this.  Can your ISP deal with the 
load? Do you have appropriate SPF/etc set up. IP addresses that aren't 
likely to be blacklisted? Server performance is only half the battle.

z!

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 25 21:40:12 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 12:40:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS3406E733841B55A42B14BFB550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1952011062512401205316a68d15f@MSAPIRO>

Khalil Abbas wrote:

>SMTP_MAX_RCPTS =5 WOULD BE OK? OR SHOULD I REDUCE OR INCREASE IT FOR HOTMAIL 
>AND YAHOO TO ACCEPT OUR MESSAGES?


WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

I have no real information as to why Hotmail and Yahoo were not
accepting your mail, but apparently at one point I thought that
reducing the number of Hotmail and/or Yahoo envelope recipients in a
single message transaction might help and apparently, it did.
Presumably, nothing at Hotmail and Yahoo has changed, so I wouldn't
advise changing SMTP_MAX_RCPTS.

What I would advise is before changing other things including hardware,
that you try the Postfix changes recommended to you at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-June/071671.html>
which you apparently never tried or at least never reported trying,
and if that doesn't solve the problem completely, that you try the
patch in the attached throttle.patch.txt file. The settings in this
patch will limit Mailman to send to 2000 recipients per minute which
will spread your 2+ million recipients over about 17 hours and will be
as effective as making many small lists.

Note that contrary to your assertion at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-June/071720.html>
that the patch is "not stable and not tested before", I never said it
was not tested. The FAQ says it "has been only minimally tested and is
not guaranteed to work". What that means is it hasn't seen significant
use and it may not solve your problem, but it is almost certainly more
stable than rebooting the server every hour.

And if you do try it and it does work, we can remove the caveats, and
if it doesn't solve th problem, at least we'll know that.

Free, open source software is a community effort, not a one-way street.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 25 21:55:40 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 12:55:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011062512401205316a68d15f@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <PC19520110625125540001570a7c8f7@MSAPIRO>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>What I would advise is ... that you try the
>patch in the attached throttle.patch.txt file.


Sorry, I forgot the attachment. Here it is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Sun Jun 26 00:22:26 2011
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 01:22:26 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011062512401205316a68d15f@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1952011062512401205316a68d15f@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <COL105-DS46543BB270CC5D34DA870FB550@phx.gbl>

lol I'm not shouting, just too lazy to hit caps :)

well I bought this server:

RAM 1x 4 GB DDR2-RAM ECC
HDD 2x 500 GB SATA II-HDD 7.200 rpm
Barebone 1x Fujitsu PRIMERGY RX100 S5
CPU 1x Intel Xeon X3320 Quadcore

I did set the SMTP_MAX_RCPT to 5 .. then I created a list of 10,000 members, 
n it delivered them in like 5-6 minutes ..

there was about 500 yahoo addresses and yahoo deferred a few messages.. 
luckily Hotmail accepted all 5500 addresses..

is that good?

do you think getting 2 or 3 or even 4 servers like this one and splitting 
the 2 million users over them is better?

about the throttle patch, ok I confess, I AM IGNORANT! I have no idea how to 
install the patch :)

I have mailman 2.1.9 by the way ..

Thanks ..



-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 10:40 PM
To: Khalil Abbas ; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..

Khalil Abbas wrote:

>SMTP_MAX_RCPTS =5 WOULD BE OK? OR SHOULD I REDUCE OR INCREASE IT FOR 
>HOTMAIL
>AND YAHOO TO ACCEPT OUR MESSAGES?


WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

I have no real information as to why Hotmail and Yahoo were not
accepting your mail, but apparently at one point I thought that
reducing the number of Hotmail and/or Yahoo envelope recipients in a
single message transaction might help and apparently, it did.
Presumably, nothing at Hotmail and Yahoo has changed, so I wouldn't
advise changing SMTP_MAX_RCPTS.

What I would advise is before changing other things including hardware,
that you try the Postfix changes recommended to you at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-June/071671.html>
which you apparently never tried or at least never reported trying,
and if that doesn't solve the problem completely, that you try the
patch in the attached throttle.patch.txt file. The settings in this
patch will limit Mailman to send to 2000 recipients per minute which
will spread your 2+ million recipients over about 17 hours and will be
as effective as making many small lists.

Note that contrary to your assertion at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-June/071720.html>
that the patch is "not stable and not tested before", I never said it
was not tested. The FAQ says it "has been only minimally tested and is
not guaranteed to work". What that means is it hasn't seen significant
use and it may not solve your problem, but it is almost certainly more
stable than rebooting the server every hour.

And if you do try it and it does work, we can remove the caveats, and
if it doesn't solve th problem, at least we'll know that.

Free, open source software is a community effort, not a one-way street.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 26 04:59:14 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 19:59:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS46543BB270CC5D34DA870FB550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1952011062519591409217e71e967@MSAPIRO>

Khalil Abbas wrote:

>lol I'm not shouting, just too lazy to hit caps :)


Regardless of why it happened, it comes across to others as shouting.


>well I bought this server:
>
>RAM 1x 4 GB DDR2-RAM ECC
>HDD 2x 500 GB SATA II-HDD 7.200 rpm
>Barebone 1x Fujitsu PRIMERGY RX100 S5
>CPU 1x Intel Xeon X3320 Quadcore
>
>I did set the SMTP_MAX_RCPT to 5 .. then I created a list of 10,000 members, 
>n it delivered them in like 5-6 minutes ..
>
>there was about 500 yahoo addresses and yahoo deferred a few messages.. 
>luckily Hotmail accepted all 5500 addresses..
>
>is that good?


It's not terrific. At that rate, assuming everything had completely
left your MTA in that time, it would take between 17 and 20 hours to
deliver to 2 million recipients. Is that acceptable?

Also, it is not clear that just because Hotmail accepted all 5500
addresses out of 10,000, that they will accept the next 55,000 out of
the next 100,000 (if there are that many). Also, once Yahoo starts
deferring, their deferral rate will increase if you keep sending more,
and this will add to the load on your MTA.


>do you think getting 2 or 3 or even 4 servers like this one and splitting 
>the 2 million users over them is better?


I can't say. Perhaps the bottleneck is the bandwidth of your internet
connection. If so, increasinfg the ability to push more data faster
won't help at all.


>about the throttle patch, ok I confess, I AM IGNORANT! I have no idea how to 
>install the patch :)
>
>I have mailman 2.1.9 by the way ..

The throttle.patch.txt file attached to this message contains a 2.1.9
version of the patch. The only difference is the line number of the
last portion.

To install it, save the file and cd to your mailman installation and
give the command

 patch Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py < /path/to/throttle.patch.txt

and then restart Mailman.

If anything goes wrong, you can remove the patch with the command

 patch -R Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py < /path/to/throttle.patch.txt

followed by another restart of Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Sun Jun 26 09:15:45 2011
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (Pete Bell)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 08:15:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Three letter codes in configfile
Message-ID: <A5EC1E7C-42BE-48A9-B8A0-779E90987DCD@ntlworld.com>

Hi.

I run a Mailman list and when I look at the list's "config.pck.xxxx.dump" file, I see three letter codes alongside each member's name in the "user_options" section.

Such codes as 264, 268, 280 and so on.

Any chance of finding a full list of what they mean please?


Similarly, in the "members" section and the "digest members" section, they all have a "0" alongside the addresses. What does this signify?


I can tell that the code next to addresses in the "hold_and_cmd_autoresponses" section will include dates - presumably for when the applications were first held for approval, but what is the number after the date? Is it the number of days it will be held for? Or the number of applications from that person?


Then there's the "u" in "usernames".  What's that all about?


And finally, the long code next to addresses in "delivery_status" section.  What do they mean please?


Thanks for any help you can give. Or directions to a full list and explanations would be much appreciated.

Cheers
Pete Bell, UK

From cite at incertum.net  Sun Jun 26 01:17:17 2011
From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan Foerster)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 01:17:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS46543BB270CC5D34DA870FB550@phx.gbl>
References: <PC1952011062512401205316a68d15f@MSAPIRO>
	<COL105-DS46543BB270CC5D34DA870FB550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20110625231717.GB19782@mail.incertum.net>

* Khalil Abbas <khillo100 at hotmail.com>:
> well I bought this server:
> 
> RAM 1x 4 GB DDR2-RAM ECC
> HDD 2x 500 GB SATA II-HDD 7.200 rpm
> Barebone 1x Fujitsu PRIMERGY RX100 S5
> CPU 1x Intel Xeon X3320 Quadcore
> 
> I did set the SMTP_MAX_RCPT to 5 .. then I created a list of 10,000
> members, n it delivered them in like 5-6 minutes ..

This should probably be handled on the postfix-users list (or perhaphs
I should ninja-CC Ralf... good idea!), but with the above hardware,
even considering that the disks are rather low end, you really
shouldn't have to limit the recipients per mail transaction or
throttle the injection rate.

I'd predict that delivery of a message to a large number of recipients
will even be faster if there are _more_ recipients per message.

Go with SMTP_MAX_RCPT=1000 in Mailman but limit the number of Postfix
processes, start with 20 (postconf -e default_process_limit=20 &&
postfix reload), see how that works out for you and increase the
default_process_limit if it works well until performance gets worse.

Any Postfix people care to comment?


Cheers
Stefan

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 26 17:18:38 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 08:18:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <20110625231717.GB19782@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <PC19520110626081838076579a1cd63@MSAPIRO>

Stefan Foerster wrote:
>
>Go with SMTP_MAX_RCPT=1000 in Mailman but limit the number of Postfix
>processes, start with 20 (postconf -e default_process_limit=20 &&
>postfix reload), see how that works out for you and increase the
>default_process_limit if it works well until performance gets worse.


Part of the OP's original issue is that with the default SMTP_MAX_RCPTS
= 500, messages delivered from Mailman to Postfix had hundreds of
Hotmail (and/or Yahoo) envelope recipients. Postfix would apparently
then deliver the message to Hotmail, again in one transaction with all
the Hotmail envelope recipients, and Hotmail would not accept an
envelope with that many recipients (and similarly for Yahoo).

Probably, SMTP_MAX_RCPTS could be larger than 5 and still avoid the
problem, but it probably can't be more than 20 or so.

Of course, the real solution is for the OP to negotiate with Microsoft
and Yahoo and maybe others to get his server whitelisted if he can.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 26 20:15:23 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 11:15:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Three letter codes in configfile
In-Reply-To: <A5EC1E7C-42BE-48A9-B8A0-779E90987DCD@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520110626111523037579a1cbce@MSAPIRO>

Pete Bell wrote:
>
>I run a Mailman list and when I look at the list's "config.pck.xxxx.dump" file, I see three letter codes alongside each member's name in the "user_options" section.
>
>Such codes as 264, 268, 280 and so on.
>
>Any chance of finding a full list of what they mean please?


Those are the user's options bits. If you look in Defaults.py, you will
find

# Bitfield for user options.  See DEFAULT_NEW_MEMBER_OPTIONS above to
set
# defaults for all new lists.
Digests             = 0 # handled by other mechanism, doesn't need a
flag.
DisableDelivery     = 1 # Obsolete; use set/getDeliveryStatus()
DontReceiveOwnPosts = 2 # Non-digesters only
AcknowledgePosts    = 4
DisableMime         = 8 # Digesters only
ConcealSubscription = 16
SuppressPasswordReminder = 32
ReceiveNonmatchingTopics = 64
Moderate = 128
DontReceiveDuplicates = 256



>Similarly, in the "members" section and the "digest members" section, they all have a "0" alongside the addresses. What does this signify?


members and digest_members are dictionaries. The keys are lower-case
email addresses. If the case-preserved email address is the same, the
value is 0; if not, the value is the case-preserved address, i.e. the
same address but with some upper case in the local part.


>I can tell that the code next to addresses in the "hold_and_cmd_autoresponses" section will include dates - presumably for when the applications were first held for approval, but what is the number after the date? Is it the number of days it will be held for? Or the number of applications from that person?


The date is the date of the last autoresponse. That's the information
needed by Auto-responder -> autoresponse_graceperiod. The count is the
number of autoresponses sent on that day, used to enforce
Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY.

These have nothing to do with General Options -> max_days_to_hold
	
or

# Default length of time a pending request is live before it is evicted
from
# the pending database.
PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE = days(3)


	

>Then there's the "u" in "usernames".  What's that all about?


<http://docs.python.org/library/types.html#types.UnicodeType>


>And finally, the long code next to addresses in "delivery_status" section.  What do they mean please?


The integer is the following


# Delivery statuses
ENABLED  = 0                                      # enabled
UNKNOWN  = 1                                      # legacy disabled
BYUSER   = 2                                      # disabled by user
choice
BYADMIN  = 3                                      # disabled by admin
choice
BYBOUNCE = 4                                      # disabled by bounces

except there's no entry at all for ENABLED. The floating point number
is the time it was last changed.


>Thanks for any help you can give. Or directions to a full list and explanations would be much appreciated.


Much of it is in Defaults.py. Ultimately, you have to look at code.

Commands like

  grep -r delivery_status /path/to/mailman/Mailman

will tell you where to look.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Sun Jun 26 22:33:03 2011
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 23:33:03 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011062519591409217e71e967@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1952011062519591409217e71e967@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <COL105-DS17F382F599AB1A1F2BF894FB540@phx.gbl>

this sucks! I've created a list of 100,000 subscribers .. SMTP_MAX_RCPTS=5, 
throttle worked perfectly, 800 emails per minute.. the messages should be 
delivered in a 2 hours time .. now it's 4 hours and 47,000 messages are 
stuck because hotmail n yahoo are deferring ..

I read somewhere that the biggest list that's using mailman is 500,000 in 
size.. is it really true or only 50,000 messages are going thru n the rest 
is delayed or even bounced back..

I don't know what to do ... I did everything in the book.. our viewers had 
subscribed to our lists with double opt-in .. mailman is properly 
configured.. I don't know what yahoo and hotmail really want! I'm so 
desperate and disappointed..

**sigh**




-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 5:59 AM
To: Khalil Abbas ; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..

Khalil Abbas wrote:

>lol I'm not shouting, just too lazy to hit caps :)


Regardless of why it happened, it comes across to others as shouting.


>well I bought this server:
>
>RAM 1x 4 GB DDR2-RAM ECC
>HDD 2x 500 GB SATA II-HDD 7.200 rpm
>Barebone 1x Fujitsu PRIMERGY RX100 S5
>CPU 1x Intel Xeon X3320 Quadcore
>
>I did set the SMTP_MAX_RCPT to 5 .. then I created a list of 10,000 
>members,
>n it delivered them in like 5-6 minutes ..
>
>there was about 500 yahoo addresses and yahoo deferred a few messages..
>luckily Hotmail accepted all 5500 addresses..
>
>is that good?


It's not terrific. At that rate, assuming everything had completely
left your MTA in that time, it would take between 17 and 20 hours to
deliver to 2 million recipients. Is that acceptable?

Also, it is not clear that just because Hotmail accepted all 5500
addresses out of 10,000, that they will accept the next 55,000 out of
the next 100,000 (if there are that many). Also, once Yahoo starts
deferring, their deferral rate will increase if you keep sending more,
and this will add to the load on your MTA.


>do you think getting 2 or 3 or even 4 servers like this one and splitting
>the 2 million users over them is better?


I can't say. Perhaps the bottleneck is the bandwidth of your internet
connection. If so, increasinfg the ability to push more data faster
won't help at all.


>about the throttle patch, ok I confess, I AM IGNORANT! I have no idea how 
>to
>install the patch :)
>
>I have mailman 2.1.9 by the way ..

The throttle.patch.txt file attached to this message contains a 2.1.9
version of the patch. The only difference is the line number of the
last portion.

To install it, save the file and cd to your mailman installation and
give the command

patch Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py < /path/to/throttle.patch.txt

and then restart Mailman.

If anything goes wrong, you can remove the patch with the command

patch -R Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py < /path/to/throttle.patch.txt

followed by another restart of Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rstasel at uoregon.edu  Sun Jun 26 22:58:06 2011
From: rstasel at uoregon.edu (Ryan Stasel)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 13:58:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS17F382F599AB1A1F2BF894FB540@phx.gbl>
References: <PC1952011062519591409217e71e967@MSAPIRO>
	<COL105-DS17F382F599AB1A1F2BF894FB540@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AB24E984-83FC-408F-A37D-E2C200125AF6@uoregon.edu>

Khalil,

Looking online, it looks like you might have to lower that number a bit... 

http://mailvivo.zendesk.com/entries/45256-my-email-is-taking-a-long-time-to-send-should-i-be-concerned
http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/r3241890-Mail-problems-to-Yahoo-Hotmail-from-Megapath
http://serverfault.com/questions/236218/postfix-smtp-refused-to-talk-to-me-451-too-many-connection-attempts

Your real answer though is to get ahold of yahoo and hotmail and get them to whitelist your server. It's futile to fight this on your end because you could spend days tweaking it to get things working, and the next day they could change their policy and break it all again. 

-Ryan Stasel
Systems Administrator
School of Journalism and Communication
University of Oregon



On Jun 26, 2011, at 13:33 , Khalil Abbas wrote:

> this sucks! I've created a list of 100,000 subscribers .. SMTP_MAX_RCPTS=5, throttle worked perfectly, 800 emails per minute.. the messages should be delivered in a 2 hours time .. now it's 4 hours and 47,000 messages are stuck because hotmail n yahoo are deferring ..
> 
> I read somewhere that the biggest list that's using mailman is 500,000 in size.. is it really true or only 50,000 messages are going thru n the rest is delayed or even bounced back..
> 
> I don't know what to do ... I did everything in the book.. our viewers had subscribed to our lists with double opt-in .. mailman is properly configured.. I don't know what yahoo and hotmail really want! I'm so desperate and disappointed..
> 
> **sigh**
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro
> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 5:59 AM
> To: Khalil Abbas ; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
> 
> Khalil Abbas wrote:
> 
>> lol I'm not shouting, just too lazy to hit caps :)
> 
> 
> Regardless of why it happened, it comes across to others as shouting.
> 
> 
>> well I bought this server:
>> 
>> RAM 1x 4 GB DDR2-RAM ECC
>> HDD 2x 500 GB SATA II-HDD 7.200 rpm
>> Barebone 1x Fujitsu PRIMERGY RX100 S5
>> CPU 1x Intel Xeon X3320 Quadcore
>> 
>> I did set the SMTP_MAX_RCPT to 5 .. then I created a list of 10,000 members,
>> n it delivered them in like 5-6 minutes ..
>> 
>> there was about 500 yahoo addresses and yahoo deferred a few messages..
>> luckily Hotmail accepted all 5500 addresses..
>> 
>> is that good?
> 
> 
> It's not terrific. At that rate, assuming everything had completely
> left your MTA in that time, it would take between 17 and 20 hours to
> deliver to 2 million recipients. Is that acceptable?
> 
> Also, it is not clear that just because Hotmail accepted all 5500
> addresses out of 10,000, that they will accept the next 55,000 out of
> the next 100,000 (if there are that many). Also, once Yahoo starts
> deferring, their deferral rate will increase if you keep sending more,
> and this will add to the load on your MTA.
> 
> 
>> do you think getting 2 or 3 or even 4 servers like this one and splitting
>> the 2 million users over them is better?
> 
> 
> I can't say. Perhaps the bottleneck is the bandwidth of your internet
> connection. If so, increasinfg the ability to push more data faster
> won't help at all.
> 
> 
>> about the throttle patch, ok I confess, I AM IGNORANT! I have no idea how to
>> install the patch :)
>> 
>> I have mailman 2.1.9 by the way ..
> 
> The throttle.patch.txt file attached to this message contains a 2.1.9
> version of the patch. The only difference is the line number of the
> last portion.
> 
> To install it, save the file and cd to your mailman installation and
> give the command
> 
> patch Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py < /path/to/throttle.patch.txt
> 
> and then restart Mailman.
> 
> If anything goes wrong, you can remove the patch with the command
> 
> patch -R Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py < /path/to/throttle.patch.txt
> 
> followed by another restart of Mailman.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rstasel%40uoregon.edu


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 26 23:29:52 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:29:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <COL105-DS17F382F599AB1A1F2BF894FB540@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1952011062614295201096ac5db21@MSAPIRO>

Khalil Abbas wrote:

>this sucks! I've created a list of 100,000 subscribers .. SMTP_MAX_RCPTS=5, 
>throttle worked perfectly, 800 emails per minute.. the messages should be 
>delivered in a 2 hours time .. now it's 4 hours and 47,000 messages are 
>stuck because hotmail n yahoo are deferring ..


We cannot help you directly. Hotmail and Yahoo think you are a spammer.
You have to negotiate with them directly and convince them that you
aren't and that their customers want your mail and get them to
whitelist your server.


>I read somewhere that the biggest list that's using mailman is 500,000 in 
>size.. is it really true or only 50,000 messages are going thru n the rest 
>is delayed or even bounced back..


It is probably true, but it is also probably true that there aren't
hundreds of thousands of Hotmail addresses on that list.


>I don't know what to do ... I did everything in the book.. our viewers had 
>subscribed to our lists with double opt-in .. mailman is properly 
>configured.. I don't know what yahoo and hotmail really want! I'm so 
>desperate and disappointed..


How are they supposed to know your list is double opt-in if you don't
talk to them? See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9>. You are
going to have to contact them and convince them to whitelist you if
you can.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Jun 27 08:41:06 2011
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 08:41:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011062614295201096ac5db21@MSAPIRO>
References: <COL105-DS17F382F599AB1A1F2BF894FB540@phx.gbl>
	<PC1952011062614295201096ac5db21@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <20110627064106.GD14882@charite.de>

* Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
 
> We cannot help you directly. Hotmail and Yahoo think you are a spammer.
> You have to negotiate with them directly and convince them that you
> aren't and that their customers want your mail and get them to
> whitelist your server.

With Yahoo!, this is relatively easy:
http://feedbackloop.yahoo.net/index.php?page=%2Fmanage.php

With Hotmail you need to go to https://postmaster.live.com/

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 27 18:54:43 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 09:54:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <20110627064106.GD14882@charite.de>
References: <COL105-DS17F382F599AB1A1F2BF894FB540@phx.gbl>	<PC1952011062614295201096ac5db21@MSAPIRO>
	<20110627064106.GD14882@charite.de>
Message-ID: <4E08B5D3.7020407@msapiro.net>

On 6/26/2011 11:41 PM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> 
> With Yahoo!, this is relatively easy:
> http://feedbackloop.yahoo.net/index.php?page=%2Fmanage.php
> 
> With Hotmail you need to go to https://postmaster.live.com/


Thanks Ralf. I added the Yahoo link to the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9>. I had added a Hotmail link yesterday, and
I added a bit more info to it too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Jun 27 20:58:53 2011
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 20:58:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
In-Reply-To: <4E08B5D3.7020407@msapiro.net>
References: <COL105-DS17F382F599AB1A1F2BF894FB540@phx.gbl>
	<PC1952011062614295201096ac5db21@MSAPIRO>
	<20110627064106.GD14882@charite.de> <4E08B5D3.7020407@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20110627185853.GC14773@charite.de>

* Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> On 6/26/2011 11:41 PM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> > 
> > With Yahoo!, this is relatively easy:
> > http://feedbackloop.yahoo.net/index.php?page=%2Fmanage.php
> > 
> > With Hotmail you need to go to https://postmaster.live.com/
> 
> 
> Thanks Ralf. I added the Yahoo link to the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9>. I had added a Hotmail link yesterday, and
> I added a bit more info to it too.

That's great. There's a lot a postmaster can do, like:

* making sure forward/reverse lookups for your IP/hostname match 
* make sure your IP is not blacklisted (use http://multirbl.valli.org/lookup/ for a one-stop check)
* setup SPF (if you like)
* setup DKIM (prerequisite for some feedback loops!)

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From joel.schuster at gmx.com  Mon Jun 27 14:28:22 2011
From: joel.schuster at gmx.com (Joel Schuster)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 08:28:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admindb Issue - Submit doesn't change Holds
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=7sQN=ta8EPXXRk3A8z-_DSTJFNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Folks,

I have a number of holds waiting for moderation on my new installation.
However, when I try to change the hold (accept, discard, etc) and click
'Submit All Data' nothing changes. All the holds are still in place.

I've run check_perms and fixed everything needing attention since I figured
this must be a permissions issue. I've also verified that url rewrites are
off so it's not a post/cookie issue as far as I can tell.

Does anyone have any other ideas?

- Joel

From snakylove at googlemail.com  Mon Jun 27 13:07:20 2011
From: snakylove at googlemail.com (Snaky Love)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:07:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to export users with ALL flags and infos and
	import to new server?
Message-ID: <BANLkTinnUPnxRJTqEp-E8xznGRSq-Mxxuw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I just realized that there does not seem to be a way to export / import
users with ALL user flags and user info... I know list_members, but this
does not seem to help with all flags, also I found some adwark script that
scrapes the mailman admin web interface (?) - however it does not store
language settings for all users... also it just exports to an excel file for
reporting, but there does not seem to be a way to import the users back into
a fresh mailman install... ???

Certainly I am not the first user who would like to copy a few mailing lists
over to another server - I did not expect that this will be a major issue -
how can this be achieved? I am not able to just copy the config.pck files,
because the new server is a hosted mailman install, also there is a major
version jump and I can not find any documentation on format changes of these
files across versions... so I would like to use the commandline tools, but
still maintain all available user info to appear in exactly the same way on
the new host.

Thank you very much for your attention!
Snaky

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 28 17:44:40 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 08:44:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to export users with ALL flags and infos
	andimport to new server?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinnUPnxRJTqEp-E8xznGRSq-Mxxuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201106280844400015759c65f7@MSAPIRO>

Snaky Love weote:
>
>Certainly I am not the first user who would like to copy a few mailing lists
>over to another server - I did not expect that this will be a major issue -
>how can this be achieved? I am not able to just copy the config.pck files,
>because the new server is a hosted mailman install, also there is a major
>version jump and I can not find any documentation on format changes of these
>files across versions... so I would like to use the commandline tools, but
>still maintain all available user info to appear in exactly the same way on
>the new host.


Copying the config.pck is the way to do this. There is no worry about a
version jump. Mailman on the new server will upgrade the config.pck on
the fly. Any upgrade should be OK.

I don't understand why you say you can't copy the config.pck. If you
have sufficient access to run command line tools, you should have
access to copy the config.pck, and even if you don't, the host admins
may be willing to help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 28 21:10:47 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:10:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admindb Issue - Submit doesn't change Holds
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=7sQN=ta8EPXXRk3A8z-_DSTJFNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201106281210470156ed11540b@MSAPIRO>

Joel Schuster wrote:
>
>I have a number of holds waiting for moderation on my new installation.
>However, when I try to change the hold (accept, discard, etc) and click
>'Submit All Data' nothing changes. All the holds are still in place.
>
>I've run check_perms and fixed everything needing attention since I figured
>this must be a permissions issue. I've also verified that url rewrites are
>off so it's not a post/cookie issue as far as I can tell.


View the source of the admindb page in your browser. Look at the
action= URL in the form tag. Is it what you expect? If so, see the FAQ
at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ioA9>. If not, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From joel.schuster at gmx.com  Wed Jun 29 14:24:30 2011
From: joel.schuster at gmx.com (Joel Schuster)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 06:24:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admindb Issue - Submit doesn't change Holds
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011062813110502507e648e3f@MSAPIRO>
References: <BANLkTin3W9Gp2fPi=qSGYriocfi7ZOi5tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952011062813110502507e648e3f@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimAYbDno93Y741gKifvOiSRmPFe3g@mail.gmail.com>

Well done Mark! I did fail to mention that I'm doing everything via https
and apparently did not do step #3 in the 'Securing Mailman's web GUI by
using Secure HTTP-SSL' instructions.

Thanks much!

- Joel

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Joel Schuster wrote:
> >
> >Yes, I verified. It is indeed the very same url as the page itself.
>
>
> What about the things in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ioA9>, in
> particular things like redirects from http to https?
>
> I know you said
>
>
> >>>I've run check_perms and fixed everything needing attention since I
> >figured
> >>>this must be a permissions issue. I've also verified that url rewrites
> are
> >>>off so it's not a post/cookie issue as far as I can tell.
>
>
> but does that include all possible redirects?
>
> It is not likely a permissions issue. If it were, you'd brobably get
> the "we hit a bug" page in response to the submit.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From plichten at gmail.com  Wed Jun 29 13:16:17 2011
From: plichten at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:16:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Body missing from Yahoo Mail users
Message-ID: <BANLkTinfG+YeeDWuNkMBJzaWOif7AN+nQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,
I'm sorry if this was posted earlier, but I didn't see it in my
searches through the archives.

It seems like every one of the members on my Mailman server who use
Yahoo for their mail are missing the main body of the e-mail sent to
the group.
I am using Python 2.1.14 on a CentOS VPS.  I have the list using a
non-digest and digest options sent out as HTML.

My non-digest Header and Footer are both defined, and both come in
just fine in a Yahoo e-mail.  Again, the body (between header and
footer) are missing from the e-mail.

I have also noticed this issue when I read the same e-mail on my own
account which is hosted on the VPS if I read with SquirrelMail instead
of using Roundcube.
Is there anyway to fix this so that my Yahoo members can read the
message bodies?


No other users on other e-mail providers have complained to me as of
yet.   Also - messages are in tact in the Archive's.  They are in text
form and have "html" stripped from the messages.
Thank you for the help.

-- 

Phil / w2lie
Monitor Long Island, Inc. | W2LIE.net | LongIslandFirePhotos.com

From rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov  Thu Jun 30 16:16:28 2011
From: rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov (Rosenbaum, Larry M.)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:16:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to integrate HTDIG when installing with Yum
Message-ID: <B832297B56798E4FB5CCE181942E7EC6B01623BFA5@EXCHMBA.ornl.gov>

I am about to install Mailman on a RHEL6 system using Yum.  How do I integrate HTDIG with it?

I have previously done HTDig integration on an install from source on Solaris, which involved a bunch of patching, I'm relatively new at Linux, but I suspect there is a better way to do it.

Thanks,

Larry


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 30 17:09:39 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 08:09:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Body missing from Yahoo Mail users
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinfG+YeeDWuNkMBJzaWOif7AN+nQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011063008093904376af2679c@MSAPIRO>

Phil wrote:
>
>It seems like every one of the members on my Mailman server who use
>Yahoo for their mail are missing the main body of the e-mail sent to
>the group.
>I am using Python 2.1.14 on a CentOS VPS.  I have the list using a
>non-digest and digest options sent out as HTML.


I assume you mean the digests are MIME format as opposed to plain.


>My non-digest Header and Footer are both defined, and both come in
>just fine in a Yahoo e-mail.  Again, the body (between header and
>footer) are missing from the e-mail.
>
>I have also noticed this issue when I read the same e-mail on my own
>account which is hosted on the VPS if I read with SquirrelMail instead
>of using Roundcube.
>Is there anyway to fix this so that my Yahoo members can read the
>message bodies?


The MIME format digest contains each message in an individual,
'attached' message/rfc822 part. Depending on the exact MIME structure
of the messages themselves, many web mail and phone clients do a
horrible job of rendering these messages. This is a problem with the
web mail application or the phone client. The digest sent by Mailman
is completely compliant with section 5.1.5 of RFC 2046
<http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2046.txt>.

Yahoo mail should at least show a bunch of attachment links for the
individual messages which could be downloaded and read, but this is
not very satisfactory.

The options for Yahoo users are as follows:

1) Complain to Yahoo and wait (years?, centuries?, forever?) for them
to fix it.

2) Switch to plain format digests which will contain the 'flattened'
message text similar to what appears in the archive.

3) Subscribe to Yahoo Mail Plus to enable pop3 access to Yahoo mail and
read mail with a MIME compliant mail client.

4) Subscribe to the digest with a non-Yahoo address.

5) Download messages of interest and read them locally.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 30 17:37:43 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 08:37:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to integrate HTDIG when installing with Yum
In-Reply-To: <B832297B56798E4FB5CCE181942E7EC6B01623BFA5@EXCHMBA.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC19520110630083743026548ffc074@MSAPIRO>

Rosenbaum, Larry M. wrote:

>I am about to install Mailman on a RHEL6 system using Yum.  How do I integrate HTDIG with it?
>
>I have previously done HTDig integration on an install from source on Solaris, which involved a bunch of patching, I'm relatively new at Linux, but I suspect there is a better way to do it.


The only htDig integration I am aware of is a set of patches originally
developed by Richard Barrett and currently available in various
versions at <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/266554>,
<http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/index.html> and
<http://www.msapiro.net/mm/>.

These patches are designed to be applied during a source install.
Application to an installed Mailman, particularly a RHEL package,
would at a minimum require some knowledge of the details of the
patches to know what to apply to the various installed files, what new
files to add, how to compile the htdig and mmsearch wrappers and so
forth.

The better way would be for someone familiar with the Red Hat package,
the htDig patches and Red Hat packaging in general to create a Red Hat
Mailman RPM with htDig integration installed and then people could
just install that RPM. As far as I know, no such RPM exists.

My advice is if you are not going to enable SELinux on your RHEL
server, forget the RedHat Package and install Mailman from source with
the patches as you did on Solaris.

If you are going to enable SELinux, consider still installing Mailman
from source and including the Red Hat patch you will find linked from
the FAQ article at <http://wiki.list.org/x/KYCB> or a more recent
version if you can find one, and then struggling through the security
policy issues that may remain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From plichten at gmail.com  Thu Jun 30 17:40:24 2011
From: plichten at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:40:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Body missing from Yahoo Mail users
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011063008093904376af2679c@MSAPIRO>
References: <BANLkTinfG+YeeDWuNkMBJzaWOif7AN+nQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952011063008093904376af2679c@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinbP81BUzvhKtgzCYopTuNb_UHb7A@mail.gmail.com>

Mark,
Thanks for the answer, but I'm having problems with *NON-Digest*
users.  I don't know if anything will change if those with NON-DIGEST
issues convert to text only Digests.

As far as your reply about Digests and MIME, yes - I see issues when I
read digests on my iphone.  The message comes in fine when reading via
Thunderbird, HORDE, SquirrelMail or RoundCube.  At least that I can
confirm it is a browser problem.

Thanks again
Phil


On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Phil wrote:
>>
>>It seems like every one of the members on my Mailman server who use
>>Yahoo for their mail are missing the main body of the e-mail sent to
>>the group.
>>I am using Python 2.1.14 on a CentOS VPS. ?I have the list using a
>>non-digest and digest options sent out as HTML.
>
>
> I assume you mean the digests are MIME format as opposed to plain.
>
>
>>My non-digest Header and Footer are both defined, and both come in
>>just fine in a Yahoo e-mail. ?Again, the body (between header and
>>footer) are missing from the e-mail.
>>
>>I have also noticed this issue when I read the same e-mail on my own
>>account which is hosted on the VPS if I read with SquirrelMail instead
>>of using Roundcube.
>>Is there anyway to fix this so that my Yahoo members can read the
>>message bodies?
>
>
> The MIME format digest contains each message in an individual,
> 'attached' message/rfc822 part. Depending on the exact MIME structure
> of the messages themselves, many web mail and phone clients do a
> horrible job of rendering these messages. This is a problem with the
> web mail application or the phone client. The digest sent by Mailman
> is completely compliant with section 5.1.5 of RFC 2046
> <http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2046.txt>.
>
> Yahoo mail should at least show a bunch of attachment links for the
> individual messages which could be downloaded and read, but this is
> not very satisfactory.
>
> The options for Yahoo users are as follows:
>
> 1) Complain to Yahoo and wait (years?, centuries?, forever?) for them
> to fix it.
>
> 2) Switch to plain format digests which will contain the 'flattened'
> message text similar to what appears in the archive.
>
> 3) Subscribe to Yahoo Mail Plus to enable pop3 access to Yahoo mail and
> read mail with a MIME compliant mail client.
>
> 4) Subscribe to the digest with a non-Yahoo address.
>
> 5) Download messages of interest and read them locally.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 30 18:03:54 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:03:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Body missing from Yahoo Mail users
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinbP81BUzvhKtgzCYopTuNb_UHb7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011063009035400932f40e653@MSAPIRO>

Phil wrote:

>Thanks for the answer, but I'm having problems with *NON-Digest*
>users.  I don't know if anything will change if those with NON-DIGEST
>issues convert to text only Digests.


Sorry. I was distracted by your reference to "digest options sent out
as HTML" and didn't fully comprehend your problem.

No, nothing will change if the non-digest members switch to 'plain'.
The plain/MIME setting affects only digests and is irrelevant for
non-digest members.

As far as the problem with individual messages sent to Yahoo members is
concerned, This is still a Yahoo issue 

The basic problem is that the post is not simple plain text (probably
it is at least multipart/alternative, even after content filtering if
any) so the msg_header and msg_footer can't simply be added to the
message body, but have to be added as separate MIME parts and Yahoo
mail is not doing a good job of rendering the resultant message.

This issue is discussed in some detail in the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9>.

You may be able to avoid or mitigate the issue by not having a
msg_header, but this may not be satisfactory for other reasons.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From plichten at gmail.com  Thu Jun 30 18:22:08 2011
From: plichten at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:22:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Body missing from Yahoo Mail users
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011063009035400932f40e653@MSAPIRO>
References: <BANLkTinbP81BUzvhKtgzCYopTuNb_UHb7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952011063009035400932f40e653@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=aMF22KZw0Lm1YS35a6Ut+BMRVrA@mail.gmail.com>

So as you said earlier, forcing my Yahoo users to select Digest only
with plain text should get them around this problem?

My list only has a few members in this boat.   And I need to have both
header and footers so the older members and not so computer elite
members understand they are part of a CC list and that the e-mails are
not directed at them, but a group as a whole.

Thanks again for the info.
Phil



On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Phil wrote:
>
>>Thanks for the answer, but I'm having problems with *NON-Digest*
>>users. ?I don't know if anything will change if those with NON-DIGEST
>>issues convert to text only Digests.
>
>
> Sorry. I was distracted by your reference to "digest options sent out
> as HTML" and didn't fully comprehend your problem.
>
> No, nothing will change if the non-digest members switch to 'plain'.
> The plain/MIME setting affects only digests and is irrelevant for
> non-digest members.
>
> As far as the problem with individual messages sent to Yahoo members is
> concerned, This is still a Yahoo issue
>
> The basic problem is that the post is not simple plain text (probably
> it is at least multipart/alternative, even after content filtering if
> any) so the msg_header and msg_footer can't simply be added to the
> message body, but have to be added as separate MIME parts and Yahoo
> mail is not doing a good job of rendering the resultant message.
>
> This issue is discussed in some detail in the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9>.
>
> You may be able to avoid or mitigate the issue by not having a
> msg_header, but this may not be satisfactory for other reasons.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>



-- 

Phil / w2lie
Monitor Long Island, Inc. | W2LIE.net | LongIslandFirePhotos.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 30 18:31:56 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:31:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Body missing from Yahoo Mail users
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011063009035400932f40e653@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <PC195201106300931560796dafbd914@MSAPIRO>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>As far as the problem with individual messages sent to Yahoo members is
>concerned, This is still a Yahoo issue 


It is hard to believe how stupid Yahoo mail is about this. I just did a
test. I sent a message with the MIME structure

multipart/mixed
    text/plain (message header)
    multipart/alternative
        text/plain (plain message body)
        text/html (html message body)
    text/plain (message footer)

to my yahoo.com address. Yahoo showed me the message header and the
message footer and a single 'attachment' which was the message footer.
No part of the message body was visible or accessible in Yahoo mail.

The really annoying part is that the HTML message body contained
embedded images, and even though Yahoo mail did not display this part,
it still displayed the "blocked remote images" message and did nothing
when I clicked unblock.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 30 18:35:14 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:35:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Body missing from Yahoo Mail users
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=aMF22KZw0Lm1YS35a6Ut+BMRVrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201106300935140109dafbd63b@MSAPIRO>

Phil wrote:

>So as you said earlier, forcing my Yahoo users to select Digest only
>with plain text should get them around this problem?


I think so. At least then they will receive a digest with messages they
can see rather than individual messages they can't see.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan