From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Fri Apr 1 09:57:40 2011 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:57:40 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] bug adding user, and archiving gets "shunted" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Mar 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: > This error is due to one of several known incompatibilities between > Mailman versions older than 2.1.12 and Python 2.6 or later. See the > FAQ at . I read the FAQ, which was however last updated in 2009. This MIGHT not be a problem, because I'm running tests (as a sort of power user) on my machine (suse 11.3 installed last december), but this is NOT the target system. I'm pretty sure the target system will have suse 11.4 which came out recently. suse 11.3 bundles mailman 2.1.11-13.2 and python 2.6.5-2.11 (however they provide separately mailman 2.1.14-21.1 and python 2.7-43.1) suse 11.4 bundles mailman 2.1.14-4.7.1 and python 2.7-8.2 (and provides also 2.7-43.1) I am really confused by all these minor subsubversions. Is the suse 11.4 mm/python coupling sound ? If so I will tell our sysadm to proceed, and pass on my test experience. I might do a few further tests on my machine and occasionally report problems here (be free to reply "usual 2.1.11/2.6 incompatibility"). Eventually I could upgrade mailman on my test machine (but not python) if that is likely to work (just to test also the upgrade procedure). > If suse is packaging Mailman 2.1.11 with the Python 2.6.5 that you are > apparently using, this is a serious suse packaging problem. I could report a bug, however if their 11.4 packaging is sound, they are likely to consider it irrelevant. From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Fri Apr 1 10:38:47 2011 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:38:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] separate mx, mailman and web host In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Lucio Chiappetti wrote: >>>> (QUESTION 5) >>>> The arrangement on the target system will be more complicated. >> >> because our aliases are mantained on the NIS master server. The master and >> slave servers are also the domain main and backup MX. >> >> However the web server is on a third machine. A configuration like the one >> I use on my test machine (local sendmail aliases inherited from local >> mailman aliases, which "pipe" into local mailman executables) is likely >> to work there ... > I don't think I actually understand the configuration or what the > problem is. > > Ultimately, mail to a list must be delivered to the Mailman machine, > but I don't understand why the existing MXs can't relay it there or > can they? So far not unless explicitly aliased. This is how I see it (and how our other things work currently). - all our e-mail are of the form user at domain NOT user at host.domain - all outgoing mail is masqueraded as user at domain by sendmail - the DNS advertises two MX's for the domain. We do not advertise MX's for particular hosts. Hosts other than MX's should have the SMTP port blocked by a firewall on the boundary router (we are several institutes in the same building, the boundary router is not managed by ours). - incoming mail of the form user at domain is delivered to other hosts via alias expansion managed by NIS. So some users get it delivered to user at personalhost, some other to user at projectimapserver. - our current mailing lists (e.g. staff at domain) are managed by :include: in the NIS aliases source, pointing to list of addresses in include files. The expansion works because all local hosts (including the MX's) can access (via NFS) the included files. We do manage both "system" lists (include file in a system directory) and "project" lists (include file in an user directory) We plan to replace those lists by mailman-managed lists. - mailman will be installed on a given host (I call it mmhost for the purposes of this mail, but the real name will be different). Most likely it will be our www server (www.domain where www is a CNAME for its real host name), NOT the MXs (the two MXs are redundant, and are also the primary and secondary DNS and NIS servers). - I know now that DEFAULT_URL_HOST shall point to www.domain (or perhaps a dedicated virtual www server) - I know now that DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST can be set to "domain" to make lists and service addresses of the form "list at domain" (preferred to list at mmhost.domain) - I know from my tests how to coerce sendmail and mailman to use (and automatically create) LOCAL aliases of the form listname: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post listname" but of course THESE aliases are not suitable to be NIS aliases. /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman won't exist on the MXs and on the clients ! - I can imagine two ways out of it. a) having some manual or crontab operated script which for all mailman alias on the mmhost, replicates in the NIS aliases aliases of the form listname: listname at mmhost listname-owner : listname-owner at mmhost etc. b) renouncing to the listname at domain in favour of listname at mmhost.domain addresses, and doing some clever use of MX records and sendmail mailertable to route all mail for mmhost (firewalled from outside) to such machine PS I read also FAQs 4.84 and 4.72. Any more suitable for our configuration ? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From cbruno70 at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 16:41:59 2011 From: cbruno70 at gmail.com (Chris Bruno) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 10:41:59 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] usubscribe all Message-ID: <4D95E437.6060302@gmail.com> usubscribe all From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 1 17:30:00 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 08:30:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] bug adding user, and archiving gets "shunted" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lucio Chiappetti wrote: >On Thu, 31 Mar 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> This error is due to one of several known incompatibilities between >> Mailman versions older than 2.1.12 and Python 2.6 or later. See the >> FAQ at . > >I read the FAQ, which was however last updated in 2009. Yes, but the key part in this case is "Update - March 2009: Mailman 2.1.12 has been released and requires Python 2.4.x or later. It is the *first* Mailman release compatible with Python 2.6." (emphasis mine). >This MIGHT not be a problem, because I'm running tests (as a sort of power >user) on my machine (suse 11.3 installed last december), but this is NOT >the target system. I'm pretty sure the target system will have suse 11.4 >which came out recently. > >suse 11.3 bundles mailman 2.1.11-13.2 and python 2.6.5-2.11 (however they >provide separately mailman 2.1.14-21.1 and python 2.7-43.1) > >suse 11.4 bundles mailman 2.1.14-4.7.1 and python 2.7-8.2 (and provides >also 2.7-43.1) > >I am really confused by all these minor subsubversions. Everything to the right of the hyphen (-) is a designation by the packager of build, patch level, whatever. Only suse can tell you what it means. I strongly suggest that for a fair test, you upgrade the Mailman on your test platform to the 2.1.14 package. The suse 11.3 bundle has the compatibility issues you have already seen and others as well. >Is the suse 11.4 mm/python coupling sound ? It should be, but I don't think the combination of Mailman 2.1.14 and Python 2.7.x has seen much use, so there may be as yet undiscovered issues. >If so I will tell our sysadm to proceed, and pass on my test experience. >I might do a few further tests on my machine and occasionally report >problems here (be free to reply "usual 2.1.11/2.6 incompatibility"). > >Eventually I could upgrade mailman on my test machine (but not python) >if that is likely to work (just to test also the upgrade procedure). I would recommend that. >> If suse is packaging Mailman 2.1.11 with the Python 2.6.5 that you are >> apparently using, this is a serious suse packaging problem. > >I could report a bug, however if their 11.4 packaging is sound, they are >likely to consider it irrelevant. I suggest you report it anyway, if for no other reason than to document the issue with suse. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 1 18:25:18 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:25:18 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] separate mx, mailman and web host In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > >- all our e-mail are of the form user at domain > NOT user at host.domain OK >- all outgoing mail is masqueraded as user at domain by sendmail OK >- the DNS advertises two MX's for the domain. We do not advertise MX's for > particular hosts. Hosts other than MX's should have the SMTP port > blocked by a firewall on the boundary router (we are several institutes > in the same building, the boundary router is not managed by ours). OK [...] > >- mailman will be installed on a given host (I call it mmhost for the > purposes of this mail, but the real name will be different). Most > likely it will be our www server (www.domain where www is a CNAME > for its real host name), NOT the MXs (the two MXs are redundant, > and are also the primary and secondary DNS and NIS servers). If it is not the www server, you can use one of the methods in FAQ 4.84 >- I know now that DEFAULT_URL_HOST shall point to www.domain (or > perhaps a dedicated virtual www server) > >- I know now that DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST can be set to "domain" to make > lists and service addresses of the form "list at domain" > (preferred to list at mmhost.domain) > >- I know from my tests how to coerce sendmail and mailman to use (and > automatically create) LOCAL aliases of the form > > listname: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post listname" > > but of course THESE aliases are not suitable to be NIS aliases. > /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman won't exist on the MXs and on the > clients ! But it is trivial to augment your script that copies Mailman's aliases for sendmail by adding something like sed -r -e "s/^(.*):.*$/\1: \1 at mmhost.domain/" < /path/data/aliases > ... plus the command(s) necessary to install those in NIS. [...] >PS >I read also FAQs 4.84 and 4.72. Any more suitable for our configuration ? I think those are good. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From ericaldhizer at aldhizer.com Fri Apr 1 16:44:17 2011 From: ericaldhizer at aldhizer.com (Eric Aldhizer) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:44:17 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble Sending Message-ID: <003301cbf07b$4807de70$d8179b50$@com> I am having trouble with all of my lists. I can send an email to any of them, the mail shows up in the archives, but doesn't distribute to any (including poster) members. This was sudden, I hadn't logged into admin on any lists. Eric From pattib at pattib.org Fri Apr 1 09:57:03 2011 From: pattib at pattib.org (Patti Beadles) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 00:57:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and friendly rejections of topicless messages Message-ID: <20110401075704.26F4616D30C@oxygen.rahul.net> I'm trying to set up a list with the topics feature, and I'm having a little bit of trouble achieving what I want. The basic feature is fine, but making it a smooth user experience is being problematic. In particular, what I want is this: A) Allow topic-based list subscription B) Every message must have a topic C) Messages that don't have a topic get bounced back to the user D) The bounced messages must be "pretty", and explain what to do A was easy enough. I implemented B and C by using spam filtering, and setting the spam filter to bounce mail whose subject line matches a regular expression. That regex is essentially "not (topic1 | topic2)". That solution is functional, if not particularly elegant. Item D is throwing me for a loop. I can make it happen with a one-line change to SpamDetect.py, but that's probably not going to fly. The host runs multiple lists, and doing this would constrain the other lists in ways that aren't really acceptable. I've wandered through this list's archives pretty extensively. If this question has been answered then I haven't found the right search incantation to get at the information. Is there a good way to accomplish what I'm trying to do? Is there a way to bounce spam to some particular email address, and run a script at that address to send back a pretty, helpful bounce? The meta-problem that I'm trying to solve is this: there's a very active mailing list for people who attend a particular event. Some members think that the list should only be about the event and related topics, while others think that the list is for general socialization among attendees of the event. For the first group, there's disagreement about what related topics would be. There's no split that seems to make sense. Topics is the perfect feature if I can get it to do what I want, but it's being a bit finicky. -Patti From mark at msapiro.net Sat Apr 2 19:18:41 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 10:18:41 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble Sending In-Reply-To: <003301cbf07b$4807de70$d8179b50$@com> Message-ID: Eric Aldhizer wrote: >I am having trouble with all of my lists. I can send an email to any of >them, the mail shows up in the archives, but doesn't distribute to any >(including poster) members. This was sudden, I hadn't logged into admin on >any lists. Either OutgoingRunner is not running or is encountering errors or, if the outgoing MTA is separate from the incoming MTA, perhaps it isn't running. If you have access, check Mailman's 'error' and 'qrunner' logs and possibly Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs and the MTA logs. Also, see the FAQ at . If you don't have access, contact the Mailman hosting provider. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Sat Apr 2 19:33:32 2011 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 02:33:32 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and friendly rejections of topicless messages In-Reply-To: <20110401075704.26F4616D30C@oxygen.rahul.net> References: <20110401075704.26F4616D30C@oxygen.rahul.net> Message-ID: <877hbcmuc3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Patti Beadles writes: > Item D is throwing me for a loop. I can make it happen with a > one-line change to SpamDetect.py, but that's probably not going > to fly. The host runs multiple lists, and doing this would > constrain the other lists in ways that aren't really acceptable. I do this kind of thing in several Handlers. There are two ways to approach this. The easy way is that the Handler knows what list it is processing (the mlist argument to process()): if mlist.internal_name() in my_lists: # do my thing The more elegant way (and not much harder) is to define a MyVeryOwnSpamDetect handler (which starts as a copy of SpamDetect.py!), save it to the Handlers directory, then insert it in the list's configuration with $ cd /path/to/mailman/lib; bin/withlist -l mylist > mlist.pipeline = GLOBAL_PIPELINE > mlist.pipeline[position_of_SpamDetect] = 'MyVeryOwnSpamDetect' > mlist.Save() > $ And now you know why all the cool kids love Mailman! From mark at msapiro.net Sat Apr 2 20:01:38 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 11:01:38 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and friendly rejections of topicless messages In-Reply-To: <20110401075704.26F4616D30C@oxygen.rahul.net> Message-ID: Patti Beadles wrote: >I'm trying to set up a list with the topics feature, and I'm >having a little bit of trouble achieving what I want. The >basic feature is fine, but making it a smooth user experience >is being problematic. In particular, what I want is this: > >A) Allow topic-based list subscription >B) Every message must have a topic >C) Messages that don't have a topic get bounced back to the user >D) The bounced messages must be "pretty", and explain what to do > >A was easy enough. Congratulations. Was the FAQ at helpful? Did you even see it? >I implemented B and C by using spam filtering, and setting the >spam filter to bounce mail whose subject line matches a regular >expression. That regex is essentially "not (topic1 | topic2)". >That solution is functional, if not particularly elegant. > >Item D is throwing me for a loop. I can make it happen with a >one-line change to SpamDetect.py, but that's probably not going >to fly. The host runs multiple lists, and doing this would >constrain the other lists in ways that aren't really acceptable. I think a better solution to B, C and D. is a custom handler. A custom handler can be enabled for only a single list and should therefore be acceptable to the host. See the FAQ at for information about custom handlers. The place in the pipeline for this particular handler is between Tagger and CalcRecips. The handler itself can be quite simple: ------------------------------------------------------ from Mailman.Errors import RejectMessage NOTICE = """Some nice text for the rejection message. """ def process(mlist, msg, msgdata): if not mlist.topics_enabled: return if not msgdata.get('topichits'): raise RejectMessage(NOTICE) ------------------------------------------------------ -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From joemailgroups at gmail.com Sun Apr 3 08:42:31 2011 From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (JRC Groups) Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 23:42:31 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up. In-Reply-To: <9F7858DA-0369-4AF2-A11C-6639BF9D20C0@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: Thanks Brad and Mark for your helpful and detailed replies. I have reached a point where I have the lists almost working but there are some issues still preventing the systems from functioning in a way that allows me to confident to launch these lists I wish to create. Apple's support has been MIA at best so I have given up and decided to seek other alternatives. Also, the numerous individuals I have spoken with at Apple were clearly (1) not interested in making any improvements or fixing the current issues with the version of Mailman that ships with OS X Server and (2) didn't know any more about it than I do (which is quite embarrassing considering they are part of the company's business support department). I can't imagine that there is anything other than some minor set-up issues that need to be corrected with my system. After all, I am sending and receiving e-mails and the lists are functional (to an extent anyway) as they send and receive messages. However, as I stated above, I don't want to launch the lists only to attract subscribers and then find out in a short while that Mailman has stopped working because something with my system wasn't set-up properly. I also can't imagine that it would be too difficult to install a new version of Mailman and manage it using its browser-based interface while ignoring Apple's System Administrator tool for this specific task. Brad, since you have this much experience with OS X Server would you be interested in helping me with my problem ? In case you are, please contact me off-list so that we can discuss it. I believe you should be able to connect remotely, right ? In case you are not interested, would you recommend me someone who is knowledgeable on both OS X Server and Mailman ? I have contacted numerous Apple consultants but couldn't find a single one who had any experience with Mailman. Thanks again for your helpful replies. Best regards, Joe --------------- On 3/30/11 5:36 PM, "Brad Knowles" wrote: > On Mar 30, 2011, at 6:15 PM, JRC Groups wrote: > >> Is there anyone on the list who is familiar with both OS X Server and >> Mailman to help with this problem ? I am willing to pay a consultation fee >> to someone who can connect to my server remotely and help solve this issue. > > I've been an Apple consultant, at least part-time. I came within a hairs > breadth of doing that job full-time for a local Apple VAR. I've got all the > PDF versions of all the official Apple documentation on Mac OS X and Mac OS X > Server, as well as PDF versions of the good 3rd party books on the subject. > And I've been a professional Unix system administrator and consultant for over > twenty years. > > The guy who used to run lists.apple.com was involved in the development and > support of Mailman long before I came along, and has more experience in the > business than I do. > > I don't mean to sound pessimistic or to rain on your parade, but in both > cases, the solution was to blow away the stuff that Apple ships, and to > install the "real deal" code as downloaded from list.org. > > > The Mailman project is freely available open source (under a GNU license, no > less), and the support we provide is best effort. There is no commercial > version of Mailman that we sell or officially support. Anyone else that > includes Mailman as part of a commercial product or service that they sell, > should include with that a full after-sales support staff. > > > Note that there isn't going to be a separate "Server" edition of Mac OS X > "Lion". > > No one seems to know if this means that all the stuff that the "Server" > edition used to include will now be available to everyone, and that all the > people who developed the "Server" edition of Mac OS X have been transitioned > over to the mainline code development team, or if that means that a lot of > products and services will get thrown out the door as Apple re-focuses > exclusively on the retail/home user market. > > But that is certainly something that you should keep in mind as you look > towards solutions in this space. > > -- > Brad Knowles > LinkedIn Profile: > From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Sun Apr 3 15:46:27 2011 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 08:46:27 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4/3/11 1:42 AM, JRC Groups at joemailgroups at gmail.com wrote: > I also can't imagine that it would be too difficult to install a new version > of Mailman and manage it using its browser-based interface while ignoring > Apple's System Administrator tool for this specific task. It should not be difficult. I'll repeat what I posted Wednesday: "I'll add that there are a number of here who run Mailman on OS X "Client". Searching the archives, you will find full step-by-step directions for installing it. Blowing away the Apple provided Mailman (or just ignoring it) and installing a clean unmodified version from source will give you, on OS X Server, the same as those of on "Client" have." Going through the process yourself will teach you far more than having someone do it for you. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ From pasqualinic at fcal.uner.edu.ar Mon Apr 4 16:33:05 2011 From: pasqualinic at fcal.uner.edu.ar (Carlos R. Pasqualini) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 11:33:05 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachment handling Message-ID: <1301927585.9827.66.camel@capibara.fcal.uner.edu.ar> Hi list i'm having trouble with attachments, because my users want to send mails with them and i don't want them to, so i've restricted the message size to 40kb. i wan to know if there is a way to "detach" the attachment, place the file on a public web server and provide a link into the message to download the file from the webserver. can i do that with mailman, mailman/postfix or mailman/exim? i am using a separate domain for the lists, and a a separate MTA so i can modify almost everything. thanks -- Carlos R. Pasqualini Adm. de Redes - Facultad de Ciencias de la Alimentaci?n - UNER From daniel.riegler87 at googlemail.com Mon Apr 4 18:40:54 2011 From: daniel.riegler87 at googlemail.com (Champyrivers) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 09:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Performance Issue Message-ID: <31316182.post@talk.nabble.com> Hi, my Task is to evaluate possible Performance Problems with Mailman. Sadly Google does not deliver the required Information, so maybe you can help me. We?re building a new Newsletter System for our University, we send about 5000 Mails to 1000 Subscribers every Day. Can you tell by expirience that performance problems can appear with these numbers? If you require more Information to give an answer, please let me know. Thanks in Advance, Daniel -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Mailman-Performance-Issue-tp31316182p31316182.html Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mark at msapiro.net Mon Apr 4 19:26:57 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 10:26:57 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachment handling In-Reply-To: <1301927585.9827.66.camel@capibara.fcal.uner.edu.ar> References: <1301927585.9827.66.camel@capibara.fcal.uner.edu.ar> Message-ID: <4D99FF61.3010403@msapiro.net> On 4/4/2011 7:33 AM, Carlos R. Pasqualini wrote: > > i wan to know if there is a way to "detach" the attachment, place the > file on a public web server and provide a link into the message to > download the file from the webserver. In the list's web admin interface Non-digest options Section, set scrub_nondigest to Yes. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From knabe at 4j.lane.edu Mon Apr 4 23:12:43 2011 From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy Knabe) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 14:12:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unshunt Message-ID: I 1/2 read the unshunt documentation and ran unshunt with some 44k messages in the shunt directory. I killed the unshunt process and now all mailman process. I deleted all of the files out of the shunt directory. But I continue to receive duplicates of the 2008 and 2009 messages. What can I do now to stop this, so that I don't duplicate all 44k messages to my users? Thanks for any help you can provide. -Troy From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 5 01:09:58 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 16:09:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unshunt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Troy Knabe wrote: >I 1/2 read the unshunt documentation and ran unshunt with some 44k messages in the shunt directory. I killed the unshunt process and now all mailman process. I deleted all of the files out of the shunt directory. But I continue to receive duplicates of the 2008 and 2009 messages. What can I do now to stop this, so that I don't duplicate all 44k messages to my users? Stop your MTA and clear its queues. Also, clear Mailman's qfiles/out and maybe qfiles/in queue before restarting Mailman. You may need to be selective in your clearing, particularly of qfiles/in to avoid losing current data. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 5 01:36:40 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 16:36:40 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Performance Issue In-Reply-To: <31316182.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <31316182.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4D9A5608.6060501@msapiro.net> On 4/4/2011 9:40 AM, Champyrivers wrote: > > my Task is to evaluate possible Performance Problems with Mailman. Sadly > Google does not deliver the required Information, so maybe you can help me. > We?re building a new Newsletter System for our University, we send about > 5000 Mails to 1000 Subscribers every Day. Can you tell by expirience that > performance problems can appear with these numbers? Performance depends on many factors, but a 1000 member list with 5 posts per day is neither large nor high traffic. See the FAQs at and . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From linda at mongeonconsulting.com Mon Apr 4 20:14:22 2011 From: linda at mongeonconsulting.com (Linda Cunningham) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 14:14:22 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman unsubscribing my members Message-ID: <43F31B60C0FACE47BBA396B53F532D1A03F875137601@win64-server.mongeonconsulting.com> I have just had a rush of email messages from my members that they have received notice from Mailman that they are unsubscribed, and they are trying to restate themselves. I have not unsubscribed anyone, and do not want to have my members unsubscribed. How would I fix this, and how to ensure this stops? Your help is appreciated. Linda Cunningham Mongeon Consulting Inc. 301 Sunnymeade Drive Ancaster (Hamilton), Ontario L9G 4L2 Telephone: 905 390 1818 Toll free: 877 390 1818 From odhiambo at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 08:23:11 2011 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 09:23:11 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman unsubscribing my members In-Reply-To: <43F31B60C0FACE47BBA396B53F532D1A03F875137601@win64-server.mongeonconsulting.com> References: <43F31B60C0FACE47BBA396B53F532D1A03F875137601@win64-server.mongeonconsulting.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 21:14, Linda Cunningham wrote: > I have just had a rush of email messages from my members that they have > received notice from Mailman that they are unsubscribed, and they are trying > to restate themselves. > I have not unsubscribed anyone, and do not want to have my members > unsubscribed. > How would I fix this, and how to ensure this stops? > > Are they truly unsubscribed? If yes, then you have a security breach on your system, which is a much bigger problem that Mailman itself. If they are, it means someone either has root access to your server or has enough privileges on Mailman admin web UI to do that. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!! From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 5 08:32:38 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 23:32:38 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman unsubscribing my members In-Reply-To: <43F31B60C0FACE47BBA396B53F532D1A03F875137601@win64-server.mongeonconsulting.com> Message-ID: Linda Cunningham wrote: >I have just had a rush of email messages from my members that they have received notice from Mailman that they are unsubscribed, and they are trying to restate themselves. >I have not unsubscribed anyone, and do not want to have my members unsubscribed. >How would I fix this, and how to ensure this stops? >Your help is appreciated. This is what I wrote is a reject message for a post to mailman-cabal at python.org from someone else at Mongeon Consulting Inc. ---------------------------------- Your members are apparently being unsubscribed by automated bounce processing. You can adjust the settings or turn off bounce processing all together from the list admin web interface, but the real solution is to discover why apparently valid addresses are bouncing. You might be able to determine this from Mailman's logs and/or the MTA logs, but if this is a hosted Mailman, you will need to contact the host for this. To follow up or if you have other questions, please join the mailman-users at python.org list at and post your request there. Note that this is a publicly archived list. Do not post personal information that you don't want to expose to the world. ---------------------------------- However, if yours is not the same list, there is probably some server-wide mail delivery issue that is causing excessive bouncing. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From knabe at 4j.lane.edu Tue Apr 5 17:34:13 2011 From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy Knabe) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 08:34:13 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unshunt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Apr 4, 2011, at 4:09 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Troy Knabe wrote: > >> I 1/2 read the unshunt documentation and ran unshunt with some 44k messages in the shunt directory. I killed the unshunt process and now all mailman process. I deleted all of the files out of the shunt directory. But I continue to receive duplicates of the 2008 and 2009 messages. What can I do now to stop this, so that I don't duplicate all 44k messages to my users? > > > Stop your MTA and clear its queues. > > Also, clear Mailman's qfiles/out and maybe qfiles/in queue before > restarting Mailman. > > You may need to be selective in your clearing, particularly of > qfiles/in to avoid losing current data. > > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > Thanks Mark. That worked perfectly!! -Troy From brad at shub-internet.org Tue Apr 5 21:02:41 2011 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 14:02:41 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C47EF03-3EB8-45A4-9CED-492187DF8AB1@shub-internet.org> Sorry, my wife's computer has been down for days, and in the meanwhile she as taken over mine. At this point, all I've got is an iPad and a semi-wonky server in the closet, and neither of them is well suited for keeping up with lots of email. I'll fix that when I get her computer repaired and back into her hands so that I can get my computer back, but until then I'm going to be even more of an absentee admin for this list than normal. I may actually be getting a job soon doing Enterprise Mac OS X consulting, and if I do then I will let you folks know. If that happens, then I could potentially be available to do remote consulting for this kind of stuff through my employer. -- Brad Knowles Sent from my iPad On Apr 3, 2011, at 1:42 AM, JRC Groups wrote: > Thanks Brad and Mark for your helpful and detailed replies. > > I have reached a point where I have the lists almost working but there are > some issues still preventing the systems from functioning in a way that > allows me to confident to launch these lists I wish to create. > > Apple's support has been MIA at best so I have given up and decided to seek > other alternatives. Also, the numerous individuals I have spoken with at > Apple were clearly (1) not interested in making any improvements or fixing > the current issues with the version of Mailman that ships with OS X Server > and (2) didn't know any more about it than I do (which is quite embarrassing > considering they are part of the company's business support department). > > I can't imagine that there is anything other than some minor set-up issues > that need to be corrected with my system. After all, I am sending and > receiving e-mails and the lists are functional (to an extent anyway) as they > send and receive messages. However, as I stated above, I don't want to > launch the lists only to attract subscribers and then find out in a short > while that Mailman has stopped working because something with my system > wasn't set-up properly. > > I also can't imagine that it would be too difficult to install a new version > of Mailman and manage it using its browser-based interface while ignoring > Apple's System Administrator tool for this specific task. > > Brad, since you have this much experience with OS X Server would you be > interested in helping me with my problem ? In case you are, please contact > me off-list so that we can discuss it. I believe you should be able to > connect remotely, right ? In case you are not interested, would you > recommend me someone who is knowledgeable on both OS X Server and Mailman ? > I have contacted numerous Apple consultants but couldn't find a single one > who had any experience with Mailman. > > Thanks again for your helpful replies. > > Best regards, > > Joe > > --------------- > > On 3/30/11 5:36 PM, "Brad Knowles" wrote: > >> On Mar 30, 2011, at 6:15 PM, JRC Groups wrote: >> >>> Is there anyone on the list who is familiar with both OS X Server and >>> Mailman to help with this problem ? I am willing to pay a consultation fee >>> to someone who can connect to my server remotely and help solve this issue. >> >> I've been an Apple consultant, at least part-time. I came within a hairs >> breadth of doing that job full-time for a local Apple VAR. I've got all the >> PDF versions of all the official Apple documentation on Mac OS X and Mac OS X >> Server, as well as PDF versions of the good 3rd party books on the subject. >> And I've been a professional Unix system administrator and consultant for over >> twenty years. >> >> The guy who used to run lists.apple.com was involved in the development and >> support of Mailman long before I came along, and has more experience in the >> business than I do. >> >> I don't mean to sound pessimistic or to rain on your parade, but in both >> cases, the solution was to blow away the stuff that Apple ships, and to >> install the "real deal" code as downloaded from list.org. >> >> >> The Mailman project is freely available open source (under a GNU license, no >> less), and the support we provide is best effort. There is no commercial >> version of Mailman that we sell or officially support. Anyone else that >> includes Mailman as part of a commercial product or service that they sell, >> should include with that a full after-sales support staff. >> >> >> Note that there isn't going to be a separate "Server" edition of Mac OS X >> "Lion". >> >> No one seems to know if this means that all the stuff that the "Server" >> edition used to include will now be available to everyone, and that all the >> people who developed the "Server" edition of Mac OS X have been transitioned >> over to the mainline code development team, or if that means that a lot of >> products and services will get thrown out the door as Apple re-focuses >> exclusively on the retail/home user market. >> >> But that is certainly something that you should keep in mind as you look >> towards solutions in this space. >> >> -- >> Brad Knowles >> LinkedIn Profile: >> > > From clare at catspaw.plus.com Tue Apr 5 22:30:53 2011 From: clare at catspaw.plus.com (Clare Redstone) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 21:30:53 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Autoresponder and privacy Message-ID: <07bf01cbf3d0$5cc6a320$1653e960$@plus.com> I've just moved a discussion group from majordomo to Mailman and posted the first message to the group. So far, I've had one autoresponder message sent back. Thankfully, from what I can see, it only came to me and not to the list address, so hasn't started to loop. But I've a problem over preserving members' privacy. The list of subscribers isn't available to other list members. So unless someone posts a message in the discussion, when their email address will show up in headers, I'm the only person who knows who's registered. And some people will be concerned that stays the case. But the autoresponder message came from someone using their work email so it includes their name, job and contact details. It doesn't matter this time, as it came to me. But as soon as someone else posts to the group, I assume they'll get the same out of office message. I can warn everyone about this and suggest that, if they don't want their details revealed, they only use an address that they won't set out of office. But is there anything else I can do? Privacy is important in our group so I would like to do what I can, rather than leaving it people who didn't realise about this vulnerable. Meantime, I may unsubscribe this person so no-one else gets her out of office message. Not a problem with a loop, thankfully. (Yet? Maybe I'd better put some filters in pronto!) I'd be grateful for advice. Thanks Clare From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 5 23:27:40 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 14:27:40 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Autoresponder and privacy In-Reply-To: <07bf01cbf3d0$5cc6a320$1653e960$@plus.com> Message-ID: Clare Redstone wrote: >I've just moved a discussion group from majordomo to Mailman and posted the >first message to the group. So far, I've had one autoresponder message sent >back. Thankfully, from what I can see, it only came to me and not to the >list address, so hasn't started to loop. Any autoresponder that responds to a list post is by definition broken. List posts are sent with "Precedence: list" and autoresponders aren't supposed to respond to such messages. Also, autoresponders shouldn't respond to the same address more than once within some period like a day or a week. Finally, an autoresponder should reply to the From: or Reply-To: address (although some badly broken autoresponders may respond to the Sender: or the envelope sender). Thus, if your list doesn't mung Reply-To:, no autoresponder should ever respond to the list posting address. Note that parts of the above apply only to individual posts. For digests, the From: is the LIST-request address, so if a broken autoresponder responds to a digest, the response will probably go to the -request address possibly generating a "results of your email commands" message from Mailman, but not if the autoresponse is Precedence: bulk, junk or list as it should be. In those cases, it will be discarded. >But I've a problem over preserving members' privacy. The list of subscribers >isn't available to other list members. So unless someone posts a message in >the discussion, when their email address will show up in headers, I'm the >only person who knows who's registered. And some people will be concerned >that stays the case. OK >But the autoresponder message came from someone using their work email so it >includes their name, job and contact details. It doesn't matter this time, >as it came to me. But as soon as someone else posts to the group, I assume >they'll get the same out of office message. That's probably true, but if list lurkers choose to use broken autoresponders that may reveal their address to a list poster and are upset about that, that's really their problem. What do they do about all the spam they autorespond to? Do they care about that? >I can warn everyone about this and suggest that, if they don't want their >details revealed, they only use an address that they won't set out of >office. But is there anything else I can do? Privacy is important in our >group so I would like to do what I can, rather than leaving it people who >didn't realise about this vulnerable. Meantime, I may unsubscribe this >person so no-one else gets her out of office message. I appreciate your desire to protect your user's privacy, but I think there's little beyond a warning that you can do. Rather than unsubscribing the user, you could just set him/her to no mail. You could also suggest to people that are concerned that they could set themselves to no mail >Not a problem with a loop, thankfully. (Yet? Maybe I'd better put some >filters in pronto!) As I indicate above, a mail loop is very unlikely if you don't mung Reply-To:. Yes, there could be some brain dead autoresponders out there that respond to Precedence: list messages send the autoresponse to the To: address (or Reply-To: if you mung it), and send multiple responses to the same address, but I think this is rare. That's not to say that you shouldn't try to filter, but it's not easy. You could set all members moderated and new members moderated by default and then clear each poster's moderate bit as they post. Clearing the moderate bit is just a checkbox in the admindb interface when approving the post. That way, a lurker's autoresponse could never make it to the full list. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From arung at cdac.in Tue Apr 5 16:09:46 2011 From: arung at cdac.in (Arun Gupta) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 19:39:46 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] regarding specific mail ids Message-ID: Hi, I have a one mailing list test at example.com and there is 10 people (mail ids) i have added, Is it possible if a at example.com send mail to test at example.com mailing list then out of 10 only 5 people get the mails (i want to deliver specific mail ids) and if b at example.com send mail to test at example.com then all people should get the mails. Please tell me procedure and settings Thanks & Regards, Arun Kumar Gupta ========================================================================= -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From foreplayboy at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 12:48:21 2011 From: foreplayboy at gmail.com (kshitij mali) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 16:18:21 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman [Failed] Message-ID: Hello Everyone , I have Newbie in the Mailing list but have 2 years of experience in postfix mailing system. my new project is to setup a mailing for the company internal organization such has eg ( admin dpt should have 5 to 6 email address etc with rules) i have an preinstalled mailman on redhat enterprise linux 4 and by reading the docs i make the configuration of mailmain to use postfix mta after all the setup while starting the mailman service i received the following error: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- [root at relay ~]# /etc/init.d/mailman start Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman [FAILED] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please help me in this situation . Regards, Kshitij Mali foreplayboy at gmail.com From ch.abarguia at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 20:49:53 2011 From: ch.abarguia at gmail.com (Ch Abarguia) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 20:49:53 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] External processing failed. communigate and mailman Message-ID: <7E98D4D3-78B2-49AF-B5B0-EA8BB200CCBD@gmail.com> Hi, N.B. Sorry if it's a duplicate post. I didn't receive the message I sent to the list. Probably because it was done before I change from digest to single. Any way. I really need your help. Back to the message : Installed mailman 2.1.13, via macports, on snow leopard ( 10.6.7) with success. Same results following the procedure Larry Stone described on http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg56923.html Everything is working fine except for the integration with communigate. Error message from communigate : failed on 'mailman post testlist at domain.com'. Error Code=external processing failed ( pathname of the wrapper : /opt/local/libexec/mailman/mail ) The answer from the communicate discussion list is : " Make sure that your program reads everything from the standard input up to EOF, exits with zero status code and does not output to the STDERR stream." Extract from the communicate documentation : "The message text (including the message headers and the message body) is passed to the external application as its standard input. Note: the application must read the entire stdin data stream, otherwise message processing fails. When the external application completes, the PIPE module reads and discards the application standard output. Make sure that your application does not write anything to its standard output, so it is not blocked when the communication channel (pipe) buffer between the application and the Server is full." Thanks in advance for any help and hints to use mailman with communigate. P.S. Same results with mailman 2.1.14 From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 6 00:24:15 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 15:24:15 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] regarding specific mail ids In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Arun Gupta wrote: > >I have a one mailing list test at example.com and there is 10 people (mail ids) i >have added, Is it possible if a at example.com send mail to test at example.com >mailing list then out of 10 only 5 people get the mails (i want to deliver >specific mail ids) and if b at example.com send mail to test at example.com then all >people should get the mails. It is not possible in standard Mailman to select a subset of list members to receive a post based on who posted. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Apr 6 02:09:57 2011 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:09:57 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Autoresponder and privacy In-Reply-To: <07bf01cbf3d0$5cc6a320$1653e960$@plus.com> References: <07bf01cbf3d0$5cc6a320$1653e960$@plus.com> Message-ID: <87k4f8qlyi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Clare Redstone writes: > I can warn everyone about this and suggest that, if they don't want > their details revealed, they only use an address that they won't > set out of office. As Mark said, this is in some sense the best you can do. It's not really possible to filter on "contact details", although "phone number" could be done (assuming you know that you have a certain country's phone number, and that country isn't Japan, which has almost as many phone number formats as it does phones). But you'd need to moderate and edit the messages by hand; automatically removing contact details is beyond the state of the art at the moment. > But is there anything else I can do? Privacy is important in our > group so I would like to do what I can, Note that in U.S. law in some jurisdictions, you may be liable for damages if you make an attempt to protect a person and fail[1], while no liability is incurred if you do nothing. Sad but true. Talk to your lawyer. That said, you can filter out signatures. There's a standard "in message" format, which assumes that everything following a line containing *exactly* two hyphens followed by a space, no more and no less, is a signature. The details of actually removing the signature are somewhat messy (everything in mail is between somewhat messy and "after the bomb hit"), and many people (and the occasional "professional" program) set up the signature wrong, so it's smart-people-proof, but fool-weak. There are other standard ways to set up a signature, too, and you could filter those out as well. However, automatically editing messages is almost certain to result in lost information at some point, and there is no way to guarantee you'll catch all inadvertant revelations. > Meantime, I may unsubscribe this person so no-one else gets her out > of office message. Set such subscribers to no-mail, instead. Then they don't lose any personal settings and can turn the list back on for themselves when they return. If there are private archives, they can continue to access those. Note that Mailman private archives are not terribly secure by default; you might not want to allow access even with in the privacy setting. Footnotes: [1] It used to be said that in New York City you could tell the lawyers' houses in winter time because they didn't shovel snow off their sidewalks. A shoveled walk is more likely to be icy and slick. From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 6 02:26:01 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 17:26:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] External processing failed. communigate and mailman In-Reply-To: <7E98D4D3-78B2-49AF-B5B0-EA8BB200CCBD@gmail.com> References: <7E98D4D3-78B2-49AF-B5B0-EA8BB200CCBD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D9BB319.6050803@msapiro.net> On 4/5/2011 11:49 AM, Ch Abarguia wrote: > > N.B. Sorry if it's a duplicate post. I didn't receive the message I > sent to the list. Probably because it was done before I change from > digest to single. There are two reasons why you didn't see your original post. First, you are sending from gmail and you will never see your own posts because gmail discards them as duplicates of the sent message. See the FAQ at . The other reason is in this case, you are a new member of the list and new members are moderated by default, and anti spam measure, so your post had to wait for moderator approval. > Installed mailman 2.1.13, via macports, on snow leopard ( 10.6.7) > with success. Same results following the procedure Larry Stone > described on > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg56923.html > > Everything is working fine except for the integration with > communigate. Error message from communigate : failed on 'mailman post > testlist at domain.com'. Error Code=external processing failed > > ( pathname of the wrapper : /opt/local/libexec/mailman/mail ) I know nothing of communigate and little specific about Apple, but the pathname of the mail wrapper should probably be /opt/local/libexec/mailman/mail/mailman - /opt/local/libexec/mailman/mail would normally be the directory that holds the wrapper. > The answer from the communicate discussion list is : > > " Make sure that your program reads everything from the standard > input up to EOF, exits with zero status code and does not output to > the STDERR stream." > > Extract from the communicate documentation : "The message text > (including the message headers and the message body) is passed to the > external application as its standard input. Note: the application > must read the entire stdin data stream, otherwise message processing > fails. When the external application completes, the PIPE module reads > and discards the application standard output. Make sure that your > application does not write anything to its standard output, so it is > not blocked when the communication channel (pipe) buffer between the > application and the Server is full." > > Thanks in advance for any help and hints to use mailman with > communigate. Also, the post command to the wrapper should normally be wrapper post listname I.e., in this case mailman post testlist not mailman post testlist at domain.com -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 6 05:05:05 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 20:05:05 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman[Failed] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: kshitij mali wrote: > >i have an preinstalled mailman on redhat enterprise linux 4 and by reading >the docs i make the configuration of mailmain to use postfix mta >after all the setup while starting the mailman service i received the >following error: >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >[root at relay ~]# /etc/init.d/mailman start >Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman > [FAILED] >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You must have the 'mailman' site list in order to start Mailman. bin/newlist mailman -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From clare at catspaw.plus.com Wed Apr 6 09:24:02 2011 From: clare at catspaw.plus.com (Clare Redstone) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 08:24:02 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Autoresponder and privacy In-Reply-To: References: <07bf01cbf3d0$5cc6a320$1653e960$@plus.com> Message-ID: <000501cbf42b$9bbe4460$d33acd20$@plus.com> Dear Mark, Thank you for replying so quickly. I don't understand some of the technical stuff to understand why the autoresponder message came to me not the group. But am glad it did! Because we're a discussion group, I have MM set up for reply to the list. But haven't set any of the mung options, or we wouldn't know who messages are from. We have quite a few people with the same forename so it gets confusing. > That's probably true, but if list lurkers choose to use broken >autoresponders that may reveal their address to a list poster and are >upset about that, that's really their problem. What do they do about >all the spam they autorespond to? Do they care about that? I don't think most people know that autoresponders can be broken. I didn't until I started running the list and began reading majordomo and mailman users group. And it probably doesn't cross their minds that the autoresponder is replying to spam. Maybe because work email systems seem to trawl out so much spam. In any case, there's nothing they can do about that apart from telling their IT dept when becoming aware of it. At work, you have to have an out of office message when you're away. I will suggest this person tells her IT dept. > Rather than >unsubscribing the user, you could just set him/her to no mail Duh! Silly me. Having only just moved from majordomo, which didn't have the no mail option, to Mailman, I completely forgot I could do this. Despite having spent time writing a FAQ for the members which included it. Thanks for the suggestion. > You could set all members moderated and new members moderated by >default and then clear each poster's moderate bit as they post. >Clearing the moderate bit is just a checkbox in the admindb interface >when approving the post. That way, a lurker's autoresponse could never >make it to the full list. Thanks for this suggestion. Yes, that would solve it for people who never post. There'd still be the possibility of someone posting a message so coming off moderation, then later setting their autoresponder. But I'm reassured that you say loops are rare. Thanks for your help. Clare -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: 05 April 2011 22:28 To: Clare Redstone; mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Autoresponder and privacy Clare Redstone wrote: >I've just moved a discussion group from majordomo to Mailman and posted the >first message to the group. So far, I've had one autoresponder message sent >back. Thankfully, from what I can see, it only came to me and not to the >list address, so hasn't started to loop. Any autoresponder that responds to a list post is by definition broken. List posts are sent with "Precedence: list" and autoresponders aren't supposed to respond to such messages. Also, autoresponders shouldn't respond to the same address more than once within some period like a day or a week. Finally, an autoresponder should reply to the From: or Reply-To: address (although some badly broken autoresponders may respond to the Sender: or the envelope sender). Thus, if your list doesn't mung Reply-To:, no autoresponder should ever respond to the list posting address. Note that parts of the above apply only to individual posts. For digests, the From: is the LIST-request address, so if a broken autoresponder responds to a digest, the response will probably go to the -request address possibly generating a "results of your email commands" message from Mailman, but not if the autoresponse is Precedence: bulk, junk or list as it should be. In those cases, it will be discarded. >But I've a problem over preserving members' privacy. The list of subscribers >isn't available to other list members. So unless someone posts a message in >the discussion, when their email address will show up in headers, I'm the >only person who knows who's registered. And some people will be concerned >that stays the case. OK >But the autoresponder message came from someone using their work email so it >includes their name, job and contact details. It doesn't matter this time, >as it came to me. But as soon as someone else posts to the group, I assume >they'll get the same out of office message. That's probably true, but if list lurkers choose to use broken autoresponders that may reveal their address to a list poster and are upset about that, that's really their problem. What do they do about all the spam they autorespond to? Do they care about that? >I can warn everyone about this and suggest that, if they don't want their >details revealed, they only use an address that they won't set out of >office. But is there anything else I can do? Privacy is important in our >group so I would like to do what I can, rather than leaving it people who >didn't realise about this vulnerable. Meantime, I may unsubscribe this >person so no-one else gets her out of office message. I appreciate your desire to protect your user's privacy, but I think there's little beyond a warning that you can do. Rather than unsubscribing the user, you could just set him/her to no mail. You could also suggest to people that are concerned that they could set themselves to no mail >Not a problem with a loop, thankfully. (Yet? Maybe I'd better put some >filters in pronto!) As I indicate above, a mail loop is very unlikely if you don't mung Reply-To:. Yes, there could be some brain dead autoresponders out there that respond to Precedence: list messages send the autoresponse to the To: address (or Reply-To: if you mung it), and send multiple responses to the same address, but I think this is rare. That's not to say that you shouldn't try to filter, but it's not easy. You could set all members moderated and new members moderated by default and then clear each poster's moderate bit as they post. Clearing the moderate bit is just a checkbox in the admindb interface when approving the post. That way, a lurker's autoresponse could never make it to the full list. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From clare at catspaw.plus.com Wed Apr 6 09:31:37 2011 From: clare at catspaw.plus.com (Clare Redstone) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 08:31:37 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Autoresponder and privacy In-Reply-To: <87k4f8qlyi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <07bf01cbf3d0$5cc6a320$1653e960$@plus.com> <87k4f8qlyi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <000601cbf42c$b73a9800$25afc800$@plus.com> Dear Stephen, Thank you for your prompt help. If I've understood you right, it's going to be difficult for me to do anything beyond warn people. Apart from moderate all messages, which would be OK a lot of the time but sometimes we have very talkative days and of course sometimes I'm away. I'm in the UK and don't know what the legal situation is about trying and failing. > Note that Mailman private archives are not terribly secure by default; >you might not want to allow access even with in the privacy setting. How insecure? Are they more vulnerable than a members-only Yahoo or Google group for example? Are they protected from search engines? Would someone have to make a deliberate effort to hack in to read the archive or could someone come across it by accident, say through a search engine? I think if it would take someone with some technical knowledge, deliberately looking for it to get in, that would be safe enough. I will add a warning to the FAQ that someone could deliberately hack in and bring it to their attention. One thing I'm suggesting is that people could set up and email account with a nickname so they wouldn't so easily be identified. Thanks. Clare -----Original Message----- From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org] Sent: 06 April 2011 01:10 To: Clare Redstone Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Autoresponder and privacy Clare Redstone writes: > I can warn everyone about this and suggest that, if they don't want > their details revealed, they only use an address that they won't > set out of office. As Mark said, this is in some sense the best you can do. It's not really possible to filter on "contact details", although "phone number" could be done (assuming you know that you have a certain country's phone number, and that country isn't Japan, which has almost as many phone number formats as it does phones). But you'd need to moderate and edit the messages by hand; automatically removing contact details is beyond the state of the art at the moment. > But is there anything else I can do? Privacy is important in our > group so I would like to do what I can, Note that in U.S. law in some jurisdictions, you may be liable for damages if you make an attempt to protect a person and fail[1], while no liability is incurred if you do nothing. Sad but true. Talk to your lawyer. That said, you can filter out signatures. There's a standard "in message" format, which assumes that everything following a line containing *exactly* two hyphens followed by a space, no more and no less, is a signature. The details of actually removing the signature are somewhat messy (everything in mail is between somewhat messy and "after the bomb hit"), and many people (and the occasional "professional" program) set up the signature wrong, so it's smart-people-proof, but fool-weak. There are other standard ways to set up a signature, too, and you could filter those out as well. However, automatically editing messages is almost certain to result in lost information at some point, and there is no way to guarantee you'll catch all inadvertant revelations. > Meantime, I may unsubscribe this person so no-one else gets her out > of office message. Set such subscribers to no-mail, instead. Then they don't lose any personal settings and can turn the list back on for themselves when they return. If there are private archives, they can continue to access those. Note that Mailman private archives are not terribly secure by default; you might not want to allow access even with in the privacy setting. Footnotes: [1] It used to be said that in New York City you could tell the lawyers' houses in winter time because they didn't shovel snow off their sidewalks. A shoveled walk is more likely to be icy and slick. From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Apr 6 10:29:18 2011 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 17:29:18 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Autoresponder and privacy In-Reply-To: <000601cbf42c$b73a9800$25afc800$@plus.com> References: <07bf01cbf3d0$5cc6a320$1653e960$@plus.com> <87k4f8qlyi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <000601cbf42c$b73a9800$25afc800$@plus.com> Message-ID: <877hb7rdep.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Clare Redstone writes: > How insecure? Are they more vulnerable than a members-only Yahoo or Google > group for example? Probably a little more vulnerable, for social reasons. Your members- only password at Yahoo/Google is your personal mail password; people probably protect those fairly well (although often enough dinner guests can read them off the post-in on the monitory in the corner ;-). Mailman subscription passwords tend to be easier to guess. > Are they protected from search engines? Yes. > Would someone have to make a deliberate effort to hack in to read > the archive Yes. > or could someone come across it by accident, say through a search > engine? No. > I think if it would take someone with some technical knowledge, > deliberately looking for it to get in, that would be safe enough. Stealing a password doesn't take technical knowledge, but it clearly takes evil intent. > One thing I'm suggesting is that people could set up and email > account with a nickname so they wouldn't so easily be identified. This is a good idea any time you want to preserve a modicum of privacy on the 'net. From bernd at petrovitsch.priv.at Wed Apr 6 11:07:20 2011 From: bernd at petrovitsch.priv.at (Bernd Petrovitsch) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:07:20 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Autoresponder and privacy In-Reply-To: <000501cbf42b$9bbe4460$d33acd20$@plus.com> References: <07bf01cbf3d0$5cc6a320$1653e960$@plus.com> <000501cbf42b$9bbe4460$d33acd20$@plus.com> Message-ID: <1302080840.7094.47.camel@thorin> Hi! On Mit, 2011-04-06 at 08:24 +0100, Clare Redstone wrote: [...] > Thank you for replying so quickly. I don't understand some of the technical > stuff to understand why > the autoresponder message came to me not the group. But am glad it did! The mail headers are set up so that these type of mails do not go on the mailing list. E.g. consider the case that an email address vanishes and is still subscribed. You don't want the bounce on the ML too. > Because we're a discussion group, I have MM set up for reply to the list. That's an entirely different discussion but the standard answer is: please read http://marc.merlins.org/netrants/reply-to-harmful.html, http://www.metasystema.net/essays/reply-to.html and http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html and think about it. [...] > > That's probably true, but if list lurkers choose to use broken > >autoresponders that may reveal their address to a list poster and are If I really want only to lurk, I wouldn't use an autoresponder at all ... > >upset about that, that's really their problem. What do they do about > >all the spam they autorespond to? Do they care about that? > > I don't think most people know that autoresponders can be broken. I didn't Unfortunately many people at MSFT also do not know it - the one from MS-Outlook, MS-OE or Exchange - or wherever that is from - is seriously broken (as in replying to "Precedence: List" Mails and especially replying to the very same address each time, possibly multiple times a day. For me, that is just another class of spam. Greetings to my Bayes-DB ....). > until I started running the list and began reading majordomo and mailman > users group. And it probably doesn't cross their minds that the > autoresponder is replying to spam. Maybe because work email systems seem to > trawl out so much spam. In any case, there's nothing they can do about that They probably do not get much spam - especially if they primarily lurk on the public internet and have somewhat sane spam-filters (read: sane postmasters) at work. > apart from telling their IT dept when becoming aware of it. At work, you > have to have an out of office message when you're away. > > I will suggest this person tells her IT dept. Good luck. The standard answer is that it can't be changed within the classical MSFT mail infrastructure (except not using the autoresponder. Actually I do not know why it is important to people to let everyone know, that you are 2 days out of office. If it's not that urgent, it can wait anyways. If it is that urgent, I should - or more must - have done something before to handle these urgent cases.). [ Full quote deleted. ] Bernd -- Bernd Petrovitsch Email : bernd at petrovitsch.priv.at LUGA : http://www.luga.at From arung at cdac.in Wed Apr 6 17:40:16 2011 From: arung at cdac.in (Arun Gupta) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 21:10:16 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] regarding specific mail ids In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: First of all thanks for your response, Is it any way to customize my mailman to achieve my goal please give me some clue or some document. Regards, Arun Kumar Gupta ========================================================================= On Tue, 5 Apr 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Arun Gupta wrote: >> >> I have a one mailing list test at example.com and there is 10 people (mail ids) i >> have added, Is it possible if a at example.com send mail to test at example.com >> mailing list then out of 10 only 5 people get the mails (i want to deliver >> specific mail ids) and if b at example.com send mail to test at example.com then all >> people should get the mails. > > > It is not possible in standard Mailman to select a subset of list > members to receive a post based on who posted. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 6 17:50:11 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 08:50:11 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Autoresponder and privacy In-Reply-To: <000501cbf42b$9bbe4460$d33acd20$@plus.com> Message-ID: Clare Redstone wrote: > >Thank you for replying so quickly. I don't understand some of the technical >stuff to understand why >the autoresponder message came to me not the group. But am glad it did! >Because we're a discussion group, I have MM set up for reply to the list. Since autoresponders that reply to list mail are broken by definition, it is not possible to say for sure to what addresses they might respond, but if we assume that the autoresponder won't reply to a To: or Cc: address, the only other 'routing' headers in which the list posting address appears are: the From: header if the list is anonymous, and the Reply-To: header if the original poster has set it to the list or if the list is set to "reply to list" (this is what I ment by munging the Reply-To:) Since your list is "reply to list" I'm a little surprised that the autoresponse went to From: and not Reply-To:, but as I said, if something is broken, we can't know all the ways in which it might be broken. >But haven't set any of the mung options, or we wouldn't know who messages >are from. We have quite a few people with the same forename so it gets >confusing. Well, you are munging the Reply-To: in the sense that I meant. [...] >> You could set all members moderated and new members moderated by >>default and then clear each poster's moderate bit as they post. >>Clearing the moderate bit is just a checkbox in the admindb interface >>when approving the post. That way, a lurker's autoresponse could never >>make it to the full list. > >Thanks for this suggestion. Yes, that would solve it for people who never >post. There'd still be the possibility of someone posting a message so >coming off moderation, then later setting their autoresponder. But I'm >reassured that you say loops are rare. What you say is true as far as looping is concerned, but for the privacy aspect, the person would have already posted at some point and revealed their posting address in that way, so privacy should be less of a concern for that person. As far as loops are concerned, we can certainly envision scenarios in which this can happen, but I can't recall a report of any. There are threads in the archives of this list about filtering such messages, but not any of loops as I recall. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de Wed Apr 6 17:56:52 2011 From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman Admin) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 17:56:52 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] regarding specific mail ids In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D9C8D44.4020300@uni-konstanz.de> Hi Arun Gupta On 04/06/2011 05:40 PM, Arun Gupta wrote: > > First of all thanks for your response, Is it any way to customize my > mailman to achieve my goal please give me some clue or some document. Perhaps you can use "topics" for this. http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+2.1+Members+Manual#Mailman2.1MembersManual-9Mailinglisttopics But this depends on users setting topics while posting. Kind regards, Christian Mack From marcos.gonzalez.cruz at gmail.com Wed Apr 6 17:59:34 2011 From: marcos.gonzalez.cruz at gmail.com (marcos gonzalez) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 17:59:34 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not validate namelist Message-ID: Hi list I have diferent mailman lists mounted and I detected a problem making tests to access, If I use telnet using other mailserver (mailserver.es) I receive this information: telnet mail.mydomain.com 25 Trying 84.88.68.66... Connected to mail.mydomain.com. Escape character is '^]'. 220 jupiter.mydomain.com ESMTP Postfix (Ubuntu) ehlo hola 250-jupiter.mydomain.com 250-PIPELINING 250-SIZE 20240000 250-VRFY 250-ETRN 250-STARTTLS 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES 250-8BITMIME 250 DSN mail from: 250 2.1.0 Ok rcpt to: 250 2.1.5 Ok data 354 End data with . subject: test test . 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 078C028A502 quit 221 2.0.0 Bye Connection closed by foreign host. but wronglist not exist. How it's possible this? Im using postfix making a relay, If you need I can pass postconf. Thanks From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 7 04:06:01 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 19:06:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not validate namelist In-Reply-To: Message-ID: marcos gonzalez wrote: > >I have diferent mailman lists mounted and I detected a problem making tests >to access, If I use telnet using other mailserver (mailserver.es) I receive >this information: > >telnet mail.mydomain.com 25 >Trying 84.88.68.66... >Connected to mail.mydomain.com. >Escape character is '^]'. >220 jupiter.mydomain.com ESMTP Postfix (Ubuntu) >ehlo hola >250-jupiter.mydomain.com >250-PIPELINING >250-SIZE 20240000 >250-VRFY >250-ETRN >250-STARTTLS >250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES >250-8BITMIME >250 DSN >mail from: >250 2.1.0 Ok >rcpt to: >250 2.1.5 Ok >data >354 End data with . >subject: test >test >. >250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 078C028A502 >quit >221 2.0.0 Bye >Connection closed by foreign host. > >but wronglist not exist. How it's possible this? Im using postfix making a >relay, If you need I can pass postconf. If this postfix is relaying to another server, it doesn't know that the address is not valid on the other server until it tries to deliver it unless you configure it to call ahead to verify the address. I think you can do that if you want, but this is entirely a postfix question in any case and would be better pursued on a postfix list. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From joemailgroups at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 04:24:54 2011 From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (JRC Groups) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 19:24:54 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark, Thank you for your helpful reply. Considering Brad isn't available at this time, would you know of anyone you could recommend who is experienced with OS X Server to help me with my problem ? All I need is for someone who is experienced with OS Server and understands its System Administrator tool to log in on my server remotely and review my settings to make sure I haven't done anything wrong and possibly make a few corrections if they happen to be necessary. It goes without saying that I will be happy to pay for the consultation fee. After I am sure that everything is set-up properly on the server I will then continue with Mailman and decide whether I should just use the one bundled with OS X Server or if I should download it and do new install. Thank you, Joe ------------------ On 3/28/11 1:27 PM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: > JRC Groups wrote: >> >> While discussing some possible DNS set-up issues I might need to resolve on >> my server a certain IT professional mentioned to me that Mailman shouldn't >> be run using a virtual domain. I am not sure if this professional was >> referring to virtual domains in general or only those running on Mac OS X >> Server. > > > Just a quick addendum to Brad's response. From the point of view of the > mail server rather than Mailman, There should be full circle DNS. > I.e., an rDNS lookup of the server's IP address should give a > host/domain name and a lookup of that name should return an A record > (not a CNAME) with the same IP. Also, when sending mail, the server > should identify itself in HELO with the same name. > > These things should be true for any mail server regardless of Mailman. > > Now if a mailman list is in a virtual domain, the envelope sender of > messages from that list will be the virtual domain. This is fine, but > if the virtual domain publishes an SPF record, it needs to specify the > server's name as a permitted sender. From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 7 04:28:57 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 19:28:57 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS Xserverset-up. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: JRC Groups wrote: > >Considering Brad isn't available at this time, would you know of anyone you >could recommend who is experienced with OS X Server to help me with my >problem ? I'm sorry, I don't know anyone to recommend. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 7 04:54:02 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 19:54:02 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] regarding specific mail ids In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Arun Gupta wrote: > >First of all thanks for your response, Is it any way to customize my >mailman to achieve my goal please give me some clue or some document. That depends on what your goal is. If you are willing to let the list members and/or posters control this, there are possibilities. You could create two lists, lista and listb. The members of lista would be those people who should receive posts from either postera or posterb, and the members of listb would be those who should receive only posts from posterb. Then if you put lista at ... in listb's Non-digest options -> regular_include_lists, and postera posts to lista and posterb posts to listb, then the members of both lists will receive posterb's posts and only the members of lista will receive postera's posts. This relies on the posters posting to the correct list. Alternatively, another reply suggested topics. This would work, but topics are based on regexp matches on the Subject: or Keywords: headers, not on the poster so the poster would have to identify the topic. You could make your own custom version of Mailman/Handlers/Tagger.py that would assign a Topic to a poster by the poster's address and use topics in that way, but either of these relies on list members subscribing to the appropriate topics. See the FAQ at for information on custom handlers. If your requirement is that who gets which poster's posts is solely controlled by the list administrator, this would require either a rather kludgy custom handler to replace CalcRecips.py or significant modifications to various Mailman modules to implement flags to match list members with posters and a UI to manipulate them. Such modifications are beyond the scope of the mailman-*@python.org lists. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From marcos.gonzalez.cruz at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 10:06:36 2011 From: marcos.gonzalez.cruz at gmail.com (marcos gonzalez) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 10:06:36 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not validate namelist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Im viewing all signals appoints to postfix I will go to comment to postfix list. thanks for your time :-) Bye 2011/4/7 Mark Sapiro > marcos gonzalez wrote: > > > >I have diferent mailman lists mounted and I detected a problem making > tests > >to access, If I use telnet using other mailserver (mailserver.es) I > receive > >this information: > > > >telnet mail.mydomain.com 25 > >Trying 84.88.68.66... > >Connected to mail.mydomain.com. > >Escape character is '^]'. > >220 jupiter.mydomain.com ESMTP Postfix (Ubuntu) > >ehlo hola > >250-jupiter.mydomain.com > >250-PIPELINING > >250-SIZE 20240000 > >250-VRFY > >250-ETRN > >250-STARTTLS > >250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES > >250-8BITMIME > >250 DSN > >mail from: > >250 2.1.0 Ok > >rcpt to: > >250 2.1.5 Ok > >data > >354 End data with . > >subject: test > >test > >. > >250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 078C028A502 > >quit > >221 2.0.0 Bye > >Connection closed by foreign host. > > > >but wronglist not exist. How it's possible this? Im using postfix making a > >relay, If you need I can pass postconf. > > > If this postfix is relaying to another server, it doesn't know that the > address is not valid on the other server until it tries to deliver it > unless you configure it to call ahead to verify the address. I think > you can do that if you want, but this is entirely a postfix question > in any case and would be better pursued on a postfix list. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > From ch.abarguia at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 13:57:33 2011 From: ch.abarguia at gmail.com (Ch Abarguia) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 13:57:33 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS Xserverset-up. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6BA0E67C-EFD4-4C4D-AA4C-E8F0991B7055@gmail.com> Try someone from http://www.afp548.com/ On 07 Apr 2011, at 04:28, Mark Sapiro wrote: > JRC Groups wrote: >> >> Considering Brad isn't available at this time, would you know of anyone you >> could recommend who is experienced with OS X Server to help me with my >> problem ? > > > I'm sorry, I don't know anyone to recommend. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ch.abarguia%40gmail.com From ch.abarguia at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 14:07:09 2011 From: ch.abarguia at gmail.com (Ch Abarguia) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 14:07:09 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS Xserverset-up. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7203F886-8A58-4709-B72C-9EA6FA5E331F@gmail.com> Have you contacted http://osx.topicdesk.com/content/section/4/41/ ? The have tools and good reputation for mac os x server support services Consultancy : http://osx.topicdesk.com/content/view/12/36/ On 07 Apr 2011, at 04:28, Mark Sapiro wrote: > JRC Groups wrote: >> >> Considering Brad isn't available at this time, would you know of anyone you >> could recommend who is experienced with OS X Server to help me with my >> problem ? > > > I'm sorry, I don't know anyone to recommend. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ch.abarguia%40gmail.com From arung at cdac.in Thu Apr 7 15:22:15 2011 From: arung at cdac.in (Arun Gupta) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 18:52:15 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] regarding specific mail ids In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Mark, According to my scenario please see following points test at example.com: mikel at example.com, jolly at example.com, clark at example.com (these are the member of the list) Here test at example.com is mailing list 1. If xyz at example.com sent mail to test at example.com then only mikel at example.com & tina at example.com will get the mails 2. But if arun at example.com sent mail to test at example.com then all the member (mikel at example.com, tina at example.com, clark at example.com) will get the mails. I do not make 2 lists according to your suggestion, and also i do not want configure with regexp matches on the Subject: or Keywords, means i am concentrating on the poster based. Please elaborate about this scenario. Thanks & Regards, Arun Kumar Gupta ========================================================================= On Wed, 6 Apr 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Arun Gupta wrote: >> >> First of all thanks for your response, Is it any way to customize my >> mailman to achieve my goal please give me some clue or some document. > > > That depends on what your goal is. If you are willing to let the list > members and/or posters control this, there are possibilities. > > You could create two lists, lista and listb. The members of lista would > be those people who should receive posts from either postera or > posterb, and the members of listb would be those who should receive > only posts from posterb. > > Then if you put lista at ... in listb's Non-digest options -> > regular_include_lists, and postera posts to lista and posterb posts to > listb, then the members of both lists will receive posterb's posts and > only the members of lista will receive postera's posts. > > This relies on the posters posting to the correct list. > > Alternatively, another reply suggested topics. This would work, but > topics are based on regexp matches on the Subject: or Keywords: > headers, not on the poster so the poster would have to identify the > topic. You could make your own custom version of > Mailman/Handlers/Tagger.py that would assign a Topic to a poster by > the poster's address and use topics in that way, but either of these > relies on list members subscribing to the appropriate topics. See the > FAQ at for information on custom > handlers. > > If your requirement is that who gets which poster's posts is solely > controlled by the list administrator, this would require either a > rather kludgy custom handler to replace CalcRecips.py or significant > modifications to various Mailman modules to implement flags to match > list members with posters and a UI to manipulate them. Such > modifications are beyond the scope of the mailman-*@python.org lists. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Thu Apr 7 15:28:00 2011 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 16:28:00 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] regarding specific mail ids In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Arun Gupta wrote: > I do not make 2 lists according to your suggestion, and also i do not want > configure with regexp matches on the Subject: or Keywords, means i am > concentrating on the poster based. You cannot do what you want to do without making two lists. You can still set it up so that everyone posts to the same address, but you'll still need two lists. Geoff. From nickharambee at me.com Thu Apr 7 16:54:24 2011 From: nickharambee at me.com (Nick Putman) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 15:54:24 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to use html in footer for all emails sent to list? Message-ID: <4D9DD020.8050101@me.com> Hi, I am trying to set up mailman for the first time and would like to add an html image link into the footer of each email that is sent to the list. At the moment all I am seeing is the raw html. So far I have changed the following settings: 1. Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. - set to "no" 2. Made sure all users have 'plain' unchecked 3. Added 'text/html' to pass mime types But still I am just getting the html and not the image link. Would someone be able to help me get this set up? Thanks, Nick From nicksmiles at me.com Thu Apr 7 17:02:08 2011 From: nicksmiles at me.com (Nick Putman) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 16:02:08 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] simple option to unsubscribe from list via email or single click Message-ID: <4D9DD1F0.9040200@me.com> Hi, I am looking for the simplest method of users unsubscribing from my Mailman list, either by replying to the list with 'unsubscribe' in the subject or the body, or a one click link in the footer that opens an email that can be sent to unsubscribe or which redirects a user to a webpage confirming they have unsubscribed. Would someone be able to help me set this up? Thanks, Nick From arung at cdac.in Thu Apr 7 18:32:02 2011 From: arung at cdac.in (Arun Gupta) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 22:02:02 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] regarding specific mail ids In-Reply-To: <03B4C2E884017EE65F7DD6E2@srb.icpsr.umich.edu> References: <03B4C2E884017EE65F7DD6E2@srb.icpsr.umich.edu> Message-ID: Dear Steve, what is the mean of posters, it is "sender address" who send to the mailing list. Am i right or wrong ?, please clear and explain. Regards, Arun Kumar Gupta ========================================================================= On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Steve Burling wrote: > --On April 7, 2011 4:28:00 PM +0300 Geoff Shang > wrote: > >> You cannot do what you want to do without making two lists. You can >> still set it up so that everyone posts to the same address, but you'll >> still need two lists. > > To which I reply: > > I get the distinct impression that this isn't a question of two lists, but > "n" lists, where "n" is the number of posters. > > Sounds like a nightmare to manage. > > -- > Steve Burling > University of Michigan, ICPSR Voice: +1 734 615.3779 > 330 Packard Street FAX: +1 734 647.8700 > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910 > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From ch.abarguia at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 18:42:27 2011 From: ch.abarguia at gmail.com (Ch Abarguia) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 18:42:27 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] simple option to unsubscribe from list via email or single click In-Reply-To: <4D9DD1F0.9040200@me.com> References: <4D9DD1F0.9040200@me.com> Message-ID: <32D6B321-ACDE-41C8-87B1-C5DF7ABC961F@gmail.com> Just add into the footer : mailto:ListName-request at listdomain.com?subject=unsubscribe cf manual : GNU/Mailman Administrator's Manual On 07 Apr 2011, at 17:02, Nick Putman wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking for the simplest method of users unsubscribing from my Mailman list, either by replying to the list with 'unsubscribe' in the subject or the body, or a one click link in the footer that opens an email that can be sent to unsubscribe or which redirects a user to a webpage confirming they have unsubscribed. > > Would someone be able to help me set this up? > > Thanks, > > Nick > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ch.abarguia%40gmail.com From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 7 20:14:32 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 11:14:32 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to use html in footer for all emailssent to list? In-Reply-To: <4D9DD020.8050101@me.com> Message-ID: Nick Putman wrote: > >I am trying to set up mailman for the first time and would like to add >an html image link into the footer of each email that is sent to the >list. At the moment all I am seeing is the raw html. > >So far I have changed the following settings: > >1. Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion >happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. - set to "no" > >2. Made sure all users have 'plain' unchecked This has no effect on individual messages. It only affects the format of the digest for digest subscribers. >3. Added 'text/html' to pass mime types > >But still I am just getting the html and not the image link. Because msg_footer is always either appended to the body of a simple text/plain message or added as a separate text/plain part. Thus any HTML in the footer is displayed as text rather than rendered as HTML. Without modifying the code that adds the footer to the message, there's nothing you can do about this. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 7 20:32:29 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 11:32:29 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] simple option to unsubscribe from list viaemail or single click In-Reply-To: <32D6B321-ACDE-41C8-87B1-C5DF7ABC961F@gmail.com> Message-ID: >On 07 Apr 2011, at 17:02, Nick Putman wrote: > >> I am looking for the simplest method of users unsubscribing from my Mailman list, either by replying to the list with 'unsubscribe' in the subject or the body, or a one click link in the footer that opens an email that can be sent to unsubscribe or which redirects a user to a webpage confirming they have unsubscribed. and Ch Abarguia replied: >Just add into the footer : mailto:ListName-request at listdomain.com?subject=unsubscribe That may or may not provide a 'clickable' link depending on the recipient's MUA. Even so, a simpler and more general footer would be Unsubscribe: Also consider Unsubscribe: <%(web_page_url)s/options/%(list_name)s> or if the list is personalized Unsubscribe: <%(user_optionsurl)s> If the list is personalized and you are willing to include cleartext user passwords in the footer, see , but also see for other information including why you shouldn't put user passwords in the footer. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 7 20:53:43 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 11:53:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] regarding specific mail ids In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Arun Gupta wrote: > >According to my scenario please see following points > >test at example.com: mikel at example.com, jolly at example.com, clark at example.com Do you mean test at example.com: mikel at example.com, tina at example.com, clark at example.com >(these are the member of the list) > >Here test at example.com is mailing list > >1. If xyz at example.com sent mail to test at example.com then only >mikel at example.com & tina at example.com will get the mails > > >2. But if arun at example.com sent mail to test at example.com then all the >member (mikel at example.com, tina at example.com, clark at example.com) will get >the mails. > >I do not make 2 lists according to your suggestion, and also i do not want >configure with regexp matches on the Subject: or Keywords, means i am >concentrating on the poster based. > >Please elaborate about this scenario. As I indicated previously, I think your requirements necessate at a minimum, a custom handler to replace the standard Mailman/Handlers/CalcRecips.py for this list, and some way for this handler to know which list members should receive which poster's posts. Implementation of custom handlers in general is discussed in the FAQ at . The details of the implimentation of a handler to meet your requirements are beyond the scope of the mailman-*@python.org lists. On the other hand, If it is acceptable for the list members themselves to determine whose posts they receive, you could do this with topics by defining a topic for each poster and making a custom version of Mailman/Handlers/Tagger.py for this list which would tag each post with that poster's topic. Then the list members could subscribe to the topics of the posters thay want to receive. The modified Tagger would be fairly simple. Just change the logic which matches topic regexps against Subject: and Keywords: headers to match against the From: header instead. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rpschwar at knology.net Thu Apr 7 19:34:13 2011 From: rpschwar at knology.net (rpschwar at knology.net) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 13:34:13 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] msg file as attachment gets striped out Message-ID: <16302.1302197653@knology.net> Trying to add a file of type .msg as a mail attachment. Have added: application/vnd.ms-outlook application/msoutlook application/octet-stream to the content filtering: Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test the file get striped out. Have added .pdf, .doc, .excel to allow those file which does work. Robert From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 7 21:17:19 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 12:17:19 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] msg file as attachment gets striped out In-Reply-To: <16302.1302197653@knology.net> Message-ID: rpschwar at knology.net wrote: >Trying to add a file of type .msg as a mail attachment. Have added: > >application/vnd.ms-outlook >application/msoutlook >application/octet-stream > >to the content filtering: Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. Leave this field blank to skip this filter >test You really don't want to add application/octet-stream unless you want to accept all sorts of potentially nasyt stuff. Neither application/vnd.ms-outlook nor application/msoutlook are registered mime types at all. See . The type you want for a message attachment is message/rfc822. In general, if you are trying to find the mime type to allow for a particular message attachment, look at the raw source of a message containing the attachment and find the Content-Type: header of the part containing the attachment. Note that even if you accept attached message/rfc822 parts, the sub-parts of that message are still subject to your content filtering rules. E.g. putting multipart message/rfc822 text/plain in pass_mime_types will filter all but the text/plain parts from multipart and attached messages. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rpschwar at knology.net Thu Apr 7 22:36:22 2011 From: rpschwar at knology.net (rpschwar at knology.net) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 16:36:22 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] msg file as attachment gets striped out Message-ID: <3195.1302208582@knology.net> That worked for adding the attachment. However, the From, To and Subject are removed. Robert On Thu 07/04/11 3:17 PM , Mark Sapiro mark at msapiro.net sent: > rpschwar > @knology.net wrote: > >Trying to add a file of type .msg as a mail > attachment. Have added:> > >application/vnd.ms-outlook > >application/msoutlook > >application/octet-stream > > > >to the content filtering: Remove message attachments > that don't have a matching content type. Leave this field blank to skip > this filter >test > > > You really don't want to add application/octet-stream unless you want > to accept all sorts of potentially nasyt stuff. Neither > application/vnd.ms-outlook nor application/msoutlook are registered > mime types at all. See > http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/index.html>. > The type you want for a message attachment is message/rfc822. > > In general, if you are trying to find the mime type to allow for a > particular message attachment, look at the raw source of a message > containing the attachment and find the Content-Type: header of the > part containing the attachment. > > Note that even if you accept attached message/rfc822 parts, the > sub-parts of that message are still subject to your content filtering > rules. > > E.g. putting > > multipart > message/rfc822 > text/plain > > in pass_mime_types will filter all but the text/plain parts from > multipart and attached messages. > > -- > Mark Sapiro mark at msapiro > .net> The highway is for gamblers,San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > > > From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 7 23:33:34 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 14:33:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] msg file as attachment gets striped out In-Reply-To: <3195.1302208582@knology.net> Message-ID: rpschwar at knology.net wrote: >That (message/rfc822) worked for adding the attachment. However, the From, To and Subject are removed. I don't know if I understand what you are saying. If you are saying a message with an attached message/rfc822 part passed through the list's content filtering and all that was left of the attached part was the body without the headers, I don't see how that can happen. Try posting a message with an attached message to a test list with the same content filtering settings and including yourself as a Bcc: recipient of the post and compare the two received messages. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rpschwar at knology.net Fri Apr 8 00:27:01 2011 From: rpschwar at knology.net (Robert P. Schwartz) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 17:27:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] msg file as attachment gets striped out In-Reply-To: References: <3195.1302208582@knology.net> Message-ID: Test1 is the original message with TO: FROM: and Subject: Test1a is the message sent to the mailing list as an attachment. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 4:34 PM To: rpschwar at knology.net; mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] msg file as attachment gets striped out rpschwar at knology.net wrote: >That (message/rfc822) worked for adding the attachment. However, the From, To and Subject are removed. I don't know if I understand what you are saying. If you are saying a message with an attached message/rfc822 part passed through the list's content filtering and all that was left of the attached part was the body without the headers, I don't see how that can happen. Try posting a message with an attached message to a test list with the same content filtering settings and including yourself as a Bcc: recipient of the post and compare the two received messages. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From glen.page at thet.net Sat Apr 9 14:18:24 2011 From: glen.page at thet.net (Glen Page) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 08:18:24 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] pending moderator request question Message-ID: <79DC1979-DBF3-409B-BEA6-AA2D91D3A416@thet.net> For the last several days, I have been getting a "1 Mailman moderator request(s) waiting" message daily from my mailman server. I have logged on as administrator to the list. I click the "Tend to pending moderator requests" link and am told that there are no pending moderator requests. How can I manually clear whatever flag in the system is causing this? Thanks, Glen Page Technology Systems Administrator ThetNet - Thetford Academy and Latham Library 802.785.4805.x231 Passwords are like underwear. You shouldn?t leave them out where people can see them. You should change them regularly. And you shouldn?t loan them out to strangers. From mailman-users at ml.th-h.de Sat Apr 9 16:00:20 2011 From: mailman-users at ml.th-h.de (Thomas Hochstein) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2011 16:00:20 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] pending moderator request question References: <79DC1979-DBF3-409B-BEA6-AA2D91D3A416@thet.net> Message-ID: Glen Page schrieb: > For the last several days, I have been getting a "1 Mailman moderator > request(s) waiting" message daily from my mailman server. I have > logged on as administrator to the list. To the right list, i.e. the mailman site list? -thh From mark at msapiro.net Sat Apr 9 16:52:56 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2011 07:52:56 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] pending moderator request question In-Reply-To: <79DC1979-DBF3-409B-BEA6-AA2D91D3A416@thet.net> References: <79DC1979-DBF3-409B-BEA6-AA2D91D3A416@thet.net> Message-ID: <4DA072C8.7060107@msapiro.net> On 4/9/2011 5:18 AM, Glen Page wrote: > For the last several days, I have been getting a "1 Mailman moderator > request(s) waiting" message daily from my mailman server. I have > logged on as administrator to the list. I click the "Tend to pending > moderator requests" link and am told that there are no pending > moderator requests. How can I manually clear whatever flag in the > system is causing this? See thye FAQ at -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Apr 11 05:52:40 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 20:52:40 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Solved - msg file as attachment gets striped out In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DA27B08.60800@msapiro.net> Mark Sapiro wrote: > rpschwar at knology.net wrote: > >>That (message/rfc822) worked for adding the attachment. However, the From, To and Subject are removed. > > I don't know if I understand what you are saying. If you are saying a > message with an attached message/rfc822 part passed through the list's > content filtering and all that was left of the attached part was the > body without the headers, I don't see how that can happen. It turns out there is a bug in content filtering which I have reported at and which see for more detail. The bug is that if collapse_alternatives is Yes, a message/rfc822 attachment will lose it's headers if it is a multipart/alternative message. This will be fixed in Mailman 2.1.15 and can be avoided by setting collapse_alternatives to No. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bsfinkel at anl.gov Mon Apr 11 15:46:53 2011 From: bsfinkel at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 08:46:53 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman FAQ URL Message-ID: <4DA3064D.5020200@anl.gov> What happened to the Mailman FAQ? When I go to the URL http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 I get some login screen from Atlassian Confluence. That page is wider thanmy Firefox window, and there are no scroll bars. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 240, Room 5.B.8 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From bsfinkel at anl.gov Mon Apr 11 16:05:19 2011 From: bsfinkel at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 09:05:19 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unmodetate A Subscriber via Command Line? Message-ID: <4DA30A9F.9050801@anl.gov> I have a list where I build the list from an external file via cron. I need to un-moderate those who are allowed to post. Obviously, I cannot use the web interface in the cron job to do the un-moderation. Is there a CLI tool? Thanks. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 240, Room 5.B.8 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From mark at msapiro.net Mon Apr 11 17:50:51 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 08:50:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman FAQ URL In-Reply-To: <4DA3064D.5020200@anl.gov> Message-ID: Barry Finkel wrote: >What happened to the Mailman FAQ? When I go to the URL > > http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > >I get some login screen from Atlassian Confluence. >That page is wider thanmy Firefox window, and there are no >scroll bars. The FAQ is still there for now. We're trying to move it, but it will be a while. What you see is a "Welcome to Confluence" overlay (Confluence is the engine behind the Mailman wiki and FAQ). This is new, due to a recent Confluence upgrade. Enlarge your browser window and you will see at the bottom of the overlay, both a "Show this Welcome Screen on log in" checkbox and a Close button. Uncheck the box and press Close. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Apr 11 17:56:47 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 08:56:47 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unmodetate A Subscriber via Command Line? In-Reply-To: <4DA30A9F.9050801@anl.gov> Message-ID: Barry Finkel wrote: >I have a list where I build the list from an external file via >cron. I need to un-moderate those who are allowed to post. >Obviously, I cannot use the web interface in the cron job >to do the un-moderation. Is there a CLI tool? Thanks. withlist is the all-purpose command line tool. See http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_mod.py for a withlist script to do what you want. Alternatively, you could just give the authorized posters the list's moderator password and let them post with an Approved: password header or approve their own posts. This is much more secure (spoof proof) than unmoderating the posters. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Mon Apr 11 18:07:47 2011 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 18:07:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers @ notation Message-ID: I have now upgraded to mailman 2.1.14 (to run on suse 11.3 with bundled python 2.6) and it runs nicely. The help text for accept_these_nonmembers says Add member addresses one per line; start the line with a ^ character to designate a regular expression match. A line consisting of the @ character followed by a list name specifies another Mailman list in this installation, all of whose member addresses will be accepted for this list. I succeed (not surprisingly, I tested this already on other installations) using regex. E.g. to allow posting to any list from root of any machine (which is exposed) this works ^root at .+\.lambrate\.inaf\.it I cannot manage to have the @ notation working though. I am testing this with two lists, pseudoastro of which I'm the only member, and pseudotecno (with a colleague as member, and me as non member). Ideally I'd want to set up a list as template and then work for all others (we will have some 6 DISJOINCT lists with categories of our staff, we want to be able that members of each can post to any other [and in addition to set up some umbrella lists]) Notation @pseudoastro @pseudotecno fails at web level entry (Error: Invalid value for variable: accept_these_nonmembers) Notation (with a blank between @ and list name) @ pseudoastro @ pseudotecno gives an entry in the error log *_these_nonmembers in pseudotecno references non-existent list pseudoastro *_these_nonmembers in pseudotecno references non-existent list pseudotecno I tried capitalizing the first letter, adding the host and domain, using a notation list_host.domain (according to a posting found on the net), but in all cases I get the "non-existent list" error !! What's the correct syntax ? (and by the way ... are those checks to be considered effective as antispam measures ? do they just use the value of the header From field (which can be faked) or use info from the SMTP dialogue ? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Mon Apr 11 18:56:52 2011 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 18:56:52 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot update regular_include_lists Message-ID: upgraded mailman 2.1.14 (on suse 11.3 with bundled python 2.6) In addition to the unwanted behaviour with accept_these_nonmembers described in a previous post, I'm getting strange behaviour with regular_include_lists I want to make an umbrella listtwo lists, pseudoastro of which I'm the only member, and pseudotecno (with a colleague as member, and me as non member). Ideally I'd want to set up a list as template and then work for all others (we will have some 6 DISJOINCT lists with categories of our staff, we want to be able that members of each can post to any other [and in addition to set up some umbrella lists]) Notation @ pseudoastro @ pseudotecno fails at web level entry (Error: Invalid value for variable: accept_these_nonmembers) Notation (with a blank between @ and list name) @ pseudoastro @ pseudotecno gives an entry in the error log *_these_nonmembers in pseudotecno references non-existent list pseudoastro *_these_nonmembers in pseudotecno references non-existent list pseudotecno I tried capitalizing the first letter, adding the host and domain, using a notation list_host.domain (according to a posting found on the net), but in all cases I get the "non-existent list" error !! What's the correct syntax ? (and by the way ... are those checks to be considered effective as antispam measures ? do they just use the value of the header From field (which can be faked) or use info from the SMTP dialogue ? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Mon Apr 11 19:01:54 2011 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:01:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] IGNORE message cannot update regular_include_lists Message-ID: Please ignore half-edited message just sent. I should have cancelled it. It left by mistake. From mark at msapiro.net Mon Apr 11 21:30:13 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 12:30:13 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers @ notation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > >The help text for accept_these_nonmembers says > >Add member addresses one per line; start the line with a ^ character to >designate a regular expression match. A line consisting of the @ character >followed by a list name specifies another Mailman list in this >installation, all of whose member addresses will be accepted for this >list. >[...] >I cannot manage to have the @ notation working though. > >I am testing this with two lists, pseudoastro of which I'm the only >member, and pseudotecno (with a colleague as member, and me as non >member). Ideally I'd want to set up a list as template and then work for >all others (we will have some 6 DISJOINCT lists with categories of our >staff, we want to be able that members of each can post to any other [and >in addition to set up some umbrella lists]) > >Notation > >@pseudoastro >@pseudotecno > >fails at web level entry (Error: Invalid value for variable: >accept_these_nonmembers) > >Notation (with a blank between @ and list name) >@ pseudoastro >@ pseudotecno > >gives an entry in the error log > > *_these_nonmembers in pseudotecno references non-existent list pseudoastro > *_these_nonmembers in pseudotecno references non-existent list pseudotecno The first syntax without the space after the @ is the correct one. It is being rejected because a list cannot reference itself in *_these_nonmembers. You must put only '@pseudoastro' in accept_these_nonmembers of the pseudotecno list and vice versa. When you put a space following @, it is accepted with the space as part of the list name, but then the list name is not found during processing of a post and is logged as an error because ' pseudoastro' and ' pseudotecno' are not lists. [...] >(and by the way ... are those checks to be considered effective as >antispam measures ? do they just use the value of the header From field >(which can be faked) or use info from the SMTP dialogue ? The address used as the sender of the post for this test is determined by the Mailman.Message.get_sender() method. This method searches three places and returns the first address found. The default search order is From: header, then Sender: header, then unix From_ which is the envelope sender. All of these can be easily faked. If USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER (not well named) is set to a true value in mm_cfg.py, the order is changed to Sender: header, then From: header, then unix From_. If you want to actually prefer the envelope sender (SMTP time MAIL FROM), you'd need to modify the definition of the method in Mailman/Message.py, but there is little point as envelope sender can be faked as easily as From: -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Tue Apr 12 12:15:59 2011 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 12:15:59 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers @ notation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Apr 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Lucio Chiappetti wrote: >> The help text for accept_these_nonmembers says >> [...] >> I cannot manage to have the @ notation working though. > The first syntax without the space after the @ is the correct one. It is > being rejected because a list cannot reference itself in > *_these_nonmembers. You must put only '@pseudoastro' in > accept_these_nonmembers of the pseudotecno list and vice versa. Thanks, I was trying to copy a common configurations for ALL lists from the first one with /usr/lib/mailman/bin/config_list -o and -i, so I thought to include all the lists in accept_these_nonmembers Now (listing all sibling lists EXCEPT "itself") I can achieve what I want. I tried this in conjunction with sibling lists as defined in regular_include_lists. Of course in this case I use the full list name pseudoastro at poseidon.lambrate.inaf.it ... Only I noticed that nesting of sibling lists is not allowed (it does not work as expected). I created the following cases : list members siblings accept non members ---------------------------------------------------------------- pseudoa A none pseudot pseudop * pseudot B none pseudoa pseudop * pseudos none pseudoa pseudot pseudoa pseudot pseudop pseudop A+x(,C) none pseudoa pseudot * pseudoi none pseudos pseudop pseudoa pseudot pseudop The three lists marked with * contain members (in the regime they will contain several members and they will be disjoinct, and there will be six such lists). The other two lists (no *) are umbrella lists. They have no members but only sibling lists. All the lists will be closed. Members of all real lists (and only they) can post to any of the lists. However with the configuration given above, list "pseudoi", which is a 2-level umbrella list (one of the sibling has siblings) does not work. Message sent to it are never dispatched to pseudot. The SOLUTION is to avoid nesting. "pseudoi" siblings are all three level-0 lists pseudoa pseudot pseudop. This way it works. And it is also smart. Originally in pseudop I defined as member myself with a subaddress (A+x). This is not realistic but I did not want to annoy another colleague for the tests. Mailman is so smart that when sending to pseudoi send just to A,B and C and removes the duplicate to A+x. Great ! While when receiving, a subaddress is honoured (so if I post from e.g. lucio+fakenonmember, this triggers moderation). As it should be ! Maybe part of this information could go in a FAQ. From Robert.Schwartz at wyle.com Mon Apr 11 17:32:26 2011 From: Robert.Schwartz at wyle.com (Schwartz, Robert) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:32:26 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing post from mail archive Message-ID: Is there a way to remove some test posts from the mail archive. I have found a message: 3.3. How can I remove a post from the list archive / remove an entire archive? But I do not have access to the server. Can I do it from another system from the cmd prompt by using something like: Mailman-subscribers.py -c -o output-members.csv (link to webpage) (list) Which I use to export my mailing list. Where link to webpage is the URL to my website and list is the name of the member list that I want. From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 12 19:22:15 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 10:22:15 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing post from mail archive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Schwartz, Robert wrote: >Is there a way to remove some test posts from the mail archive. I have found a message: >3.3. How can I remove a post from the list archive / remove an entire archive? > But I do not have access to the server. Can I do it from another system from the cmd prompt by using something like: > >Mailman-subscribers.py -c -o output-members.csv (link to webpage) (list) >Which I use to export my mailing list. Where link to webpage is the URL to my website and list is the name of the member list that I want. No. Removing or modifying archived messages can only be done on the Mailman server following the methods discussed in the FAQ you reference. It cannot be done via the web. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 12 20:06:01 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 11:06:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers @ notation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > >Only I noticed that nesting of sibling lists is not allowed (it does not >work as expected). The sibling list feature, regular_include_lists and regular_exclude_lists does not work as you expect because it only affects recipients of posts to 'this list'. For example if lista contains listb at ... in its regular_include_lists, The recipient list for a post to lista which doesn't also address listb will be augmented by those regular members of listb who aren't members of lista. Since the post is sent only to lista, only lista's regular_*_lists are considered in modifying the recipient list. listb's regular_include_lists is only considered for posts to listb, and not when augmenting the recipient list for a post to lista. >I created the following cases : > > list members siblings accept non members > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > pseudoa A none pseudot pseudop * > pseudot B none pseudoa pseudop * > pseudos none pseudoa pseudot pseudoa pseudot pseudop > pseudop A+x(,C) none pseudoa pseudot * > pseudoi none pseudos pseudop pseudoa pseudot pseudop > >The three lists marked with * contain members (in the regime they will >contain several members and they will be disjoinct, and there will be six >such lists). > >The other two lists (no *) are umbrella lists. They have no members but >only sibling lists. > >All the lists will be closed. Members of all real lists (and only they) >can post to any of the lists. > >However with the configuration given above, list "pseudoi", which is a >2-level umbrella list (one of the sibling has siblings) does not work. >Message sent to it are never dispatched to pseudot. > >The SOLUTION is to avoid nesting. "pseudoi" siblings are all three level-0 >lists pseudoa pseudot pseudop. > >This way it works. > >And it is also smart. Originally in pseudop I defined as member myself >with a subaddress (A+x). This is not realistic but I did not want to annoy >another colleague for the tests. > >Mailman is so smart that when sending to pseudoi send just to A,B and C >and removes the duplicate to A+x. Great ! I don't think Mailman did this. Possibly it was the MTA or your MUA that dropped one of the (A, A+x) recipients, but I don't think Mailman will. >While when receiving, a subaddress is honoured (so if I post from e.g. >lucio+fakenonmember, this triggers moderation). As it should be ! > >Maybe part of this information could go in a FAQ. I have added a note about only one level of inclusion to the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Wed Apr 13 11:09:16 2011 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 11:09:16 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers @ notation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Apr 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Lucio Chiappetti wrote: >> >> Only I noticed that nesting of sibling lists is not allowed (it does >> not work as expected). > > The sibling list feature, regular_include_lists and > regular_exclude_lists does not work as you expect because it only > affects recipients of posts to 'this list'. Now all is clear > I have added a note about only one level of inclusion to the FAQ at > . Thanks. The important thing is that one can make things work as it should creating umb1 with siblings listA listB umb2 with siblings listA listB listC this is equivalent to umb2 = umb1 + listC (which won't work). Since the definition is done only once there is no different effort required in setting up things with nesting or with flat one-level arrangement. >> Mailman is so smart that when sending to pseudoi send just to A,B and C >> and removes the duplicate to A+x. Great ! > > I don't think Mailman did this. Possibly it was the MTA or your MUA that > dropped one of the (A, A+x) recipients, but I don't think Mailman will. The MUA could not have done that since it was unaware of the addresses (they were just list members). I verified (outside of mailman) that it is our MTA (sendmail) which does that, and it does it while sending. Subaddresses are preserved in the header if they were included (true for a "plain" sending, not true for a mailman sending). Since we use the same sendmail.cf on all our machines, this is fine for us. From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Thu Apr 14 13:25:04 2011 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:25:04 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disallow digest, but getting warning Message-ID: <20110414112504.GM14509@charite.de> I disallowed my users to get their list-emails (for one list) as a digest. As far as I can see, I removed the "digest" tickmark for all memeber, yet mailman is reporting: Achtung: Sie haben Mitglieder, die Nachrichtensammlungen (digests) bekommen wollen, aber der Sammlungs-Modus ist von Ihnen deaktiviert. Diese Mitglieder bekommen deswegen gar keine Nachrichten! Basically: "Some mebers want digests, you disbaled it, so they're not getting anything". But WHICH members? -- Ralf Hildebrandt Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Thu Apr 14 13:27:57 2011 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:27:57 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disallow digest, but getting warning In-Reply-To: <20110414112504.GM14509@charite.de> References: <20110414112504.GM14509@charite.de> Message-ID: <20110414112756.GN14509@charite.de> * Ralf Hildebrandt : > I disallowed my users to get their list-emails (for one list) as a > digest. > > As far as I can see, I removed the "digest" tickmark for all memeber, > yet mailman is reporting: > > Achtung: Sie haben Mitglieder, die Nachrichtensammlungen (digests) > bekommen wollen, aber der Sammlungs-Modus ist von Ihnen deaktiviert. > Diese Mitglieder bekommen deswegen gar keine Nachrichten! > > Basically: "Some mebers want digests, you disbaled it, so they're not > getting anything". Warning: You have digest members, but digests are turned off. Those people will not receive mail. > But WHICH members? From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Thu Apr 14 13:37:42 2011 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:37:42 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disallow digest, but getting warning In-Reply-To: <20110414112756.GN14509@charite.de> References: <20110414112504.GM14509@charite.de> <20110414112756.GN14509@charite.de> Message-ID: <20110414113742.GO14509@charite.de> * Ralf Hildebrandt : > * Ralf Hildebrandt : > > I disallowed my users to get their list-emails (for one list) as a > > digest. > > > > As far as I can see, I removed the "digest" tickmark for all memeber, > > yet mailman is reporting: > > > > Achtung: Sie haben Mitglieder, die Nachrichtensammlungen (digests) > > bekommen wollen, aber der Sammlungs-Modus ist von Ihnen deaktiviert. > > Diese Mitglieder bekommen deswegen gar keine Nachrichten! > > > > Basically: "Some mebers want digests, you disbaled it, so they're not > > getting anything". > > Warning: You have digest members, but digests are turned off. Those > people will not receive mail. > > > But WHICH members? I patched mailman to emit that info. m( From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Thu Apr 14 13:40:40 2011 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:40:40 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disallow digest, but getting warning In-Reply-To: <20110414113932.4E68480F3@webmail.charite.de> <20110414113742.GO14509@charite.de> Message-ID: <20110414114039.GP14509@charite.de> * Ralf Hildebrandt : > > Warning: You have digest members, but digests are turned off. Those > > people will not receive mail. > > > > > But WHICH members? > > I patched mailman to emit that info. > m( --- /usr/src/mailman-2.1.14/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py 2010-12-02 08:41:27.000000000 +0100 +++ /usr/src/mailman-2.1.14/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py 2011-04-14 13:34:53.533844622 +0200 @@ -189,11 +189,15 @@ _('''You have digest members, but digests are turned off. Those people will not receive mail.'''), tag=_('Warning: ')) + doc.addError(mlist.getDigestMemberKeys(), + tag=_('Warning: ')) if not mlist.nondigestable and mlist.getRegularMemberKeys(): doc.addError( _('''You have regular list members but non-digestified mail is turned off. They will receive non-digestified mail until you fix this problem.'''), tag=_('Warning: ')) + doc.addError(mlist.getRegularMemberKeys(), + tag=_('Warning: ')) # Glom up the results page and print it out show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata) print doc.Format() -- Ralf Hildebrandt Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de From jcea at jcea.es Thu Apr 14 14:06:05 2011 From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:06:05 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType' objects Message-ID: <4DA6E32D.306@jcea.es> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi. This is a recurrent issue. This morning I received this: """ Your "cron" job on stargate /usr/local/bin/python2.5 -S /home/mailman/cron/disabled produced the following output: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/mailman/cron/disabled", line 224, in main() File "/home/mailman/cron/disabled", line 208, in main mlist.sendNextNotification(member) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 280, in sendNextNotification msg['Subject'] = 'confirm ' + info.cookie TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType' objects """ The problem is, the particular user is marked as "disabled delivery", but its bounce information is not the responsible for that: """ >>> m.getDeliveryStatus("X") 4 >>> m.bounce_info["X"] """ So the delivery is disabled because "bounce", but the bounce score is too low for it (my threshold is 5.0). When the "cron" executes "disabled" to send out the reminders, it tries to send to this user, but the process fails because the user is marked as "bounce" but no confirmation cookie is available. So, the process dies. No more notifications mails are send. PANIC! :). I think I can solve this particular case, for a while, doing "m.setDeliveryStatus("X", 0)". But I will wait a couple of days, just in case you want me to do any kind of test. Checking the logs, I see this: (email and listname not shown) """ bounce:Apr 13 09:17:59 2011 (1567) list: X bounce score: 1.0 bounce:Apr 13 13:56:29 2011 (5194) list: X already scored a bounce for date 13-Apr-2011 bounce:Apr 14 09:00:03 2011 (24248) Notifying disabled member X for list: list bounce:Apr 14 12:05:16 2011 (12355) Notifying disabled member X for list: list bounce:Apr 14 12:06:21 2011 (12546) Notifying disabled member X for list: list bounce:Apr 14 12:17:09 2011 (14017) list: X residual bounce received bounce:Apr 14 13:31:00 2011 (20518) Notifying disabled member X for list: list bounce:Apr 14 13:31:15 2011 (20554) Notifying disabled member X for list: list """ So here we have mailman getting a bounce for the address yesterday, and the original "notification" try and my subsequent tests, today. Hipotesis: The user set "disable delivery" but we have some bounces coming back, so the "disable delivery" sets by user is mutated incorrectly to "user bouncing", causing this problem. Some more data: """ >>> m.getDeliveryStatusChangeTime("X") 1302776230.914567 >>> import time >>> time.ctime(1302776230.914567) 'Thu Apr 14 12:17:10 2011' >>> m.getDeliveryStatus("X") 4 """ The change date, is consistent with this line on my log: """ bounce:Apr 14 12:17:09 2011 (14017) list: X residual bounce received """ This happens from time to time, and it is really painful, since others users are not getting their reminders, or they are getting them too late and their token has already expired. I will keep this state for a couple of days, just in case you need some more info. Then, I will clean it up. But this is a recurrent issue, happens from time to time. Thanks for your help! PS: I am using Mailman 2.1.12 with Python 2.5. - -- Jesus Cea Avion _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org _/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ . _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ "Things are not so easy" _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ "My name is Dump, Core Dump" _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ "El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQCVAwUBTabjLZlgi5GaxT1NAQJvDwQAk4evdz+3o5rvQ1s0arcPr86vXqdKH4Kp uqKddRK2GPE8sgjZN704VTUKlDe2BvbftsCTJXIEo2UOvDVy3w95zftYckRVL5f5 Fg0UxPlwG2GjElJLalMKnJyiQ10VGYb6ke+DeXY4EYOYdlzMt0tGvidjjI+obCJv BuwS0God1O0= =OCjv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dag at wieers.com Thu Apr 14 15:38:30 2011 From: dag at wieers.com (Dag Wieers) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 15:38:30 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved header, mailman password and security Message-ID: Hi, We have been using the Approved header as a way to automtically approve commit logs to a read-only mailinglist. We recently moved our infrastructure to github and I wrote a patch to the github Email service hook to add an Approved header. https://github.com/github/github-services/pull/84 Now the problem of course is that this secret currently is either the list admin or the list moderator password, which is far from secure. Especially if the mails are not created on the mailman list server. So I would propose to allow to set a separate secret used for approved messages. If compromised, it's easy to change that secret on both sides. Is this acceptable ? Thanks in advance -- -- dag wieers, dag at wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- dagit linux solutions, info at dagit.net, http://dagit.net/ [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors] From ninanic at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 22:29:17 2011 From: ninanic at gmail.com (Nina Nicholson) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:29:17 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] -owner and -request not working on new host Message-ID: I recently moved my site from a host that provided Mailman 2.1.5 and Plesk 8.1 to one that provides Mailman 2.1.9 and Plesk 10.1.1. I manually created 55 lists on the new host through Plesk, and populated them in the Mailman admin. All of them have the same two emails in the -owner field, which were also the same ones used for the old lists on the old host. My problem is that emails sent to both the -owner and -request addresses bounce back with the message that that address doesn't exist. Interestingly I tried to manually created -owner and -request addresses for one of the lists (news at domain.org) via Plesk, and was prevented with the message that news-owner at domain.org and news-request at domain.org were already in use. So Plesk thinks they exist -- but trying to send anything to them fails. I am not a Linux guru. How do I go about debugging this? From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 14 19:11:30 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:11:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] -owner and -request not working on new host In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nina Nicholson wrote: > >My problem is that emails sent to both the -owner and -request addresses >bounce back with the message that that address doesn't exist. > >Interestingly I tried to manually created -owner and -request addresses for >one of the lists (news at domain.org) via Plesk, and was prevented with the >message that news-owner at domain.org and news-request at domain.org were already >in use. So Plesk thinks they exist -- but trying to send anything to them >fails. This is apparently a Plesk issue. See the FAQ at . Debugging this will require access to the configuration files and logs of the MTA on the Mailman host machine and perhaps specific Plesk knowledge. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bsfinkel at anl.gov Thu Apr 14 21:12:27 2011 From: bsfinkel at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:12:27 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with bounce_matching_headers Message-ID: <4DA7471B.2020703@anl.gov> I am running 2.1.14, and we had a problem where a list owner subscribed a number of persons to a list, and many of these persons want to be unsubscribed. To catch mail directed toward the list: Subject: Please remove me from your list I added a line to bounce_matching_headers Subject: .remove. (I placed it at the end of the Mailman-supplied lines), and the next mail with that subject line was sent to the list moderators. Another mail message arrived: Subject: Again... Please remove me from this list but this one was not diverted to the moderators. What is wrong with my bounce_matching_headers line? Thanks. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 240, Room 5.B.8 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 14 21:50:51 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 12:50:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with bounce_matching_headers In-Reply-To: <4DA7471B.2020703@anl.gov> Message-ID: Barry Finkel wrote > >I added a line to bounce_matching_headers > > Subject: .remove. I don't know why this didn't work unless it contains trailing whitespace (leading whitespace is removed before matching). However, if you are trying to match the 'word' remove, I would use Subject: \Wremove\W See Note that bounce_matching_headers (and header_filter_rules) are matched case insensitively. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Richard at Damon-Family.org Thu Apr 14 22:11:31 2011 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:11:31 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with bounce_matching_headers In-Reply-To: <4DA7471B.2020703@anl.gov> References: <4DA7471B.2020703@anl.gov> Message-ID: <4DA754F3.5090508@Damon-Family.org> On 4/14/11 3:12 PM, Barry Finkel wrote: > I am running 2.1.14, and we had a problem where a list owner > subscribed a number of persons to a list, and many of these > persons want to be unsubscribed. To catch mail directed > toward the list: > > Subject: Please remove me from your list > > I added a line to bounce_matching_headers > > Subject: .remove. > > (I placed it at the end of the Mailman-supplied lines), > and the next mail with that subject line was sent to the > list moderators. Another mail message arrived: > > Subject: Again... Please remove me from this list > > but this one was not diverted to the moderators. What is > wrong with my bounce_matching_headers line? Thanks. Doesn't . only match a single character? I use filters more like Subject: .*remove.* so the .* matches any number of characters between the Subject header and the word. This filter likely will have false positives, you may want something more like Subject: .*remove.*list.* -- Richard Damon From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 14 22:35:17 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:35:17 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with bounce_matching_headers In-Reply-To: <4DA754F3.5090508@Damon-Family.org> Message-ID: Richard Damon wrote: > >Doesn't . only match a single character? I use filters more like > >Subject: .*remove.* > >so the .* matches any number of characters between the Subject header >and the word. bounce_matching_headers is different from header_filter_rules. For header_filter_rules, you might want something like ^Subject:.*remove because the search is against all of the message's headers. For bounce_matching_headers, Subject: .remove. says search the subject header value for the pattern '.remove.' which ought to succeed unless 'remove is at the very beginning or end of the header. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 15 00:43:09 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 15:43:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType'objects In-Reply-To: <4DA6E32D.306@jcea.es> Message-ID: Jesus Cea wrote: > >This morning I received this: > >""" >Your "cron" job on stargate >/usr/local/bin/python2.5 -S /home/mailman/cron/disabled > >produced the following output: > >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/home/mailman/cron/disabled", line 224, in > main() > File "/home/mailman/cron/disabled", line 208, in main > mlist.sendNextNotification(member) > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 280, in sendNextNotification > msg['Subject'] = 'confirm ' + info.cookie >TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType' objects >""" > >The problem is, the particular user is marked as "disabled delivery", >but its bounce information is not the responsible for that: > >""" >>>> m.getDeliveryStatus("X") >4 >>>> m.bounce_info["X"] > current score: 1.0 > last bounce date: (2011, 4, 13) > email notices left: 7 > last notice date: (1970, 1, 2) > confirmation cookie: None > > >""" > >So the delivery is disabled because "bounce", but the bounce score is >too low for it (my threshold is 5.0). I do not see any way in standard GNU Mailman that a user can be disabled "BYBOUNCE" without appropriate bounce info. Is your mailman installed from source or a distributer package? Do you have any local patches? Do you run any local processes? >When the "cron" executes "disabled" to send out the reminders, it tries >to send to this user, but the process fails because the user is marked >as "bounce" but no confirmation cookie is available. > >So, the process dies. No more notifications mails are send. PANIC! :). Correct. >I think I can solve this particular case, for a while, doing >"m.setDeliveryStatus("X", 0)". But I will wait a couple of days, just in >case you want me to do any kind of test. > >Checking the logs, I see this: (email and listname not shown) > >""" >bounce:Apr 13 09:17:59 2011 (1567) list: X bounce score: 1.0 >bounce:Apr 13 13:56:29 2011 (5194) list: X already scored a bounce for >date 13-Apr-2011 >bounce:Apr 14 09:00:03 2011 (24248) Notifying disabled member X for >list: list >bounce:Apr 14 12:05:16 2011 (12355) Notifying disabled member X for >list: list >bounce:Apr 14 12:06:21 2011 (12546) Notifying disabled member X for >list: list >bounce:Apr 14 12:17:09 2011 (14017) list: X residual bounce received >bounce:Apr 14 13:31:00 2011 (20518) Notifying disabled member X for >list: list >bounce:Apr 14 13:31:15 2011 (20554) Notifying disabled member X for >list: list >""" What are the other entries timestamped at or close to Apr 13 09:17:59 2011? What are the processes with PIDs 1567, 5194 and 14017? These should all be BounceRunner or perhaps OutgoingRunner if there are also entries in Mailman's smtp-failure log. Are you running multiple sliced qrunners or are qrunners being restarted. See the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/_4A9 for information on completely stopping Mailman and all qrunners. Then stop Mailman and all the runners and after everything is stopped, start Mailman just once. That may help if there are multiple copies of qrunners processing the same slices. >So here we have mailman getting a bounce for the address yesterday, and >the original "notification" try and my subsequent tests, today. > >Hipotesis: The user set "disable delivery" but we have some bounces >coming back, so the "disable delivery" sets by user is mutated >incorrectly to "user bouncing", causing this problem. I don't see how that can happen. When a bounce is received for a member whose delivery is disabled for any reason, we just log the 'residual bounce received' message and otherwise ignore it. >Some more data: > >""" >>>> m.getDeliveryStatusChangeTime("X") >1302776230.914567 >>>> import time >>>> time.ctime(1302776230.914567) >'Thu Apr 14 12:17:10 2011' >>>> m.getDeliveryStatus("X") >4 >""" > >The change date, is consistent with this line on my log: > >""" >bounce:Apr 14 12:17:09 2011 (14017) list: X residual bounce received >""" Yes, and that is very curious, but the member's delivery was already disabled at 09:00, and unless the cron/disabled command in Mailman's crontab has some options to process other than disabled BYBOUNCE members, the member was already disabled BYBOUNCE at that time. bounce:Apr 14 09:00:03 2011 (24248) Notifying disabled member X for list: list Also, a residual bounce does not change or update DeliveryStatusChangeTime at least with standard Bouncer.py and Old Style Memberships.py. >This happens from time to time, and it is really painful, since others >users are not getting their reminders, or they are getting them too late >and their token has already expired. > >I will keep this state for a couple of days, just in case you need some >more info. Then, I will clean it up. But this is a recurrent issue, >happens from time to time. You could always patch cron/disabled by finding this: try: mlist.sendNextNotification(member) except Errors.NotAMemberError: # There must have been some problem with the data we have # on this member. Most likely it's that they don't have a # password assigned. Log this and delete the member. syslog('bounce', 'NotAMemberError when sending disabled notice: %s', member) mlist.ApprovedDeleteMember(member, 'cron/disabled') and adding immediately following except TypeError: syslog('bounce', 'TypeError when sending disabled notice: %s', member) This will at least not stop the process for other members. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 15 01:32:26 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:32:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disallow digest, but getting warning In-Reply-To: <20110414114039.GP14509@charite.de> References: <20110414114039.GP14509@charite.de> Message-ID: <4DA7840A.4070407@msapiro.net> On 4/14/2011 4:40 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote: >> >> I patched mailman to emit that info. >> m( > > --- /usr/src/mailman-2.1.14/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py 2010-12-02 08:41:27.000000000 +0100 > +++ /usr/src/mailman-2.1.14/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py 2011-04-14 13:34:53.533844622 +0200 > @@ -189,11 +189,15 @@ > _('''You have digest members, but digests are turned > off. Those people will not receive mail.'''), > tag=_('Warning: ')) > + doc.addError(mlist.getDigestMemberKeys(), > + tag=_('Warning: ')) > if not mlist.nondigestable and mlist.getRegularMemberKeys(): > doc.addError( > _('''You have regular list members but non-digestified mail is > turned off. They will receive non-digestified mail until you > fix this problem.'''), tag=_('Warning: ')) > + doc.addError(mlist.getRegularMemberKeys(), > + tag=_('Warning: ')) > # Glom up the results page and print it out > show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata) > print doc.Format() See . My patch is a bit different, see attached, but the intent is the same. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: patch.txt URL: From techtonik at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 20:32:11 2011 From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 21:32:11 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman integration with Google Groups: allowGroups Subscribers post directly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 9:49 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > anatoly techtonik wrote: >> >>- how can I setup Mailman, so it can accept mails sent through Google >>Groups proxy automatically? - > > The envelope sender of a google groups post is > . If that address were a > member of the mailman list with no password reminders and no mail > delivery, the posts would be accepted as member posts. The problem is > the +some_token suffix to the local part of the address. The > Mailman.Message.get_senders() method doesn't treat +some_token as a > suffix and since it is variable, it is not possible to subscribe all > the possible addresses to the > list. Am I right that "envelope sender" is just a relay proxy address, so To: field will still contain my email? Is it possible to add an option to Mailman itself to strip +token before processing email addresses? Does email standard allow to use +token addresses for multiple users? > Thus you are left with a couple of other options. If the Google group > is set to include a Reply-To: header in > delivered posts, and if is a member of > the mailman list (with no password reminders and no mail delivery), > Mailman.Message.get_senders() will return that address in the senders > list and Mailman will consider the post from a member. Seems easy, but isn't it possible to forge Reply-To: address to spam Mailman lists? I'd like to ensure there is some kind protection to avoid spam that pretends to be from the Group. The same concern is about X-BeenThere header solution. > So, if you add as a member of the mailman > list (with no password reminders and no mail delivery), and either set > the google group "Replies to messages" ?to "Replies are sent to the > whole group" or add the above SENDER_HEADERS line to mm_cfg.py, posts > arriving via the group will be seen as member posts. If I set "no mail delivery" then how the Group receive messages for reading from the web? Please, CC. Thanks. From mark at msapiro.net Sat Apr 16 21:01:18 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 12:01:18 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman integration with Google Groups:allowGroups Subscribers post directly In-Reply-To: Message-ID: anatoly techtonik wrote: >On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 9:49 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> anatoly techtonik wrote: >>> >>>- how can I setup Mailman, so it can accept mails sent through Google >>>Groups proxy automatically? - >> >> The envelope sender of a google groups post is >> . If that address were a >> member of the mailman list with no password reminders and no mail >> delivery, the posts would be accepted as member posts. The problem is >> the +some_token suffix to the local part of the address. The >> Mailman.Message.get_senders() method doesn't treat +some_token as a >> suffix and since it is variable, it is not possible to subscribe all >> the possible addresses to the >> list. > >Am I right that "envelope sender" is just a relay proxy address, so >To: field will still contain my email? The envelope sender is set by Google Groups to an address to whih undeliverable type notices will be returned. If I understand correctly what you're doing, the To: header will contain the address of the Google Group. The recipient address (the Mailman list which is a member of the Google Group) will not appear in headers other than perhaps Received:. >Is it possible to add an option to Mailman itself to strip +token >before processing email addresses? Only by modifying code. >Does email standard allow to use +token addresses for multiple users? I do not understand the question. There will be one message from the Google Group to the Mailman list. That message's envelope sender will have a unique token so if it bounces, Google can easily tell which recipient bounced. The messages from the Google Group to other Google Group members will each have their own unique token. >> Thus you are left with a couple of other options. If the Google group >> is set to include a Reply-To: header in >> delivered posts, and if is a member of >> the mailman list (with no password reminders and no mail delivery), >> Mailman.Message.get_senders() will return that address in the senders >> list and Mailman will consider the post from a member. > >Seems easy, but isn't it possible to forge Reply-To: address to spam >Mailman lists? Yes, and one can almost as easily forge From: for the same purpose. >I'd like to ensure there is some kind protection to >avoid spam that pretends to be from the Group. The same concern is >about X-BeenThere header solution. It doesn't take much sophistication to craft and send an email message with anything one wants in the headers. People who want to can already easily spoof the address of any list member in the From: header of a message to fool Mailman into accepting the post as from a list member. If you are truly concerned about this, you have to moderate all members to hold all posts and approve them manually. >> So, if you add as a member of the mailman >> list (with no password reminders and no mail delivery), and either set >> the google group "Replies to messages" =C2=A0to "Replies are sent to the >> whole group" or add the above SENDER_HEADERS line to mm_cfg.py, posts >> arriving via the group will be seen as member posts. > >If I set "no mail delivery" then how the Group receive messages for >reading from the web? No mail delivery is a per user option. You set no mail delivery and no password reminders for only the Google Groups address which is a member of the Mailman list so that Mailman doesn't send the post back to the Google Group. Delivery to other members of the Mailman list is unaffected by this. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From joemailgroups at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 21:35:39 2011 From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (JRC Groups) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 12:35:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman list sends but doesn't receive mail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark, It has been suggested to me an approach that I thought might resolve the problem I am experiencing with the changes constantly made by OS X Server Admin application to Mailman's mm_cfg.py file. An it specialist who helped me review my OS X Server set-up and DNS settings suggested that I should change permissions on this file in order to prevent OS X Server from editing it. He tried changing the permissions on the file to rw-r--r-- but it still didn't work. From my limited knowledge of UNIX and terminal it appears to me that the ownership of the file belongs to -Mailman. Is this right ? Can either the permissions or the ownership (and perhaps both) on this file be modified so as to keep OS X Server from editing it ? Could these modifications have any adverse effect on Mailman's behavior or would the program work fine with this file as a read-only file ? What do you think ? According to the it specialist my set-up and DNS settings are fine. This is a relief. Now I know that the issue is very likely related to Apple's (poor) implementation of Mailman. I know one choice I have is to bypass this bundled version included with OS X Server and install a fresh version of Mailman. However, considering the work and time involved I would prefer, if possible, to work with the version I have and that is already set-up. What are your thoughts on this matter ? Thank you as always for your help, Joe On 12/12/10 10:22 PM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: > JRC Groups wrote: >> >> On 12/12/10 8:59 AM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: >> >>> I don't know. Please post the entire contents of your mm_cfg.py. The >>> above errors indicate that there is no add_virtualhost() for >>> www.domain.com, but this is not consistent with other things you >>> observe. >> >> Here it is: >> >> # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line. >> MTA = 'Postfix' >> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'dentserv.main.private' >> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'dentserv.main.private' > > > As you note below, the above entries are not what you want. > > >> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() >> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) >> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['3wforum.com'] > > > Is the '3wforum.com' domain what you refer to elsewhere as > 'domain.com'. If so, the above is probably fine (although the cat is > now out of the bag). If not, then it probably should be. > > >> VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off >> >> As I copied the contents to paste them here I noticed that I had made a >> mistake. On the last entry I had "VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW - Off" instead of >> "VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off". Once I corrected this entry I was able to >> have all lists displayed in the listinfo window. > > > Good. > > >> Now that I am able to view all lists displayed together in the same listinfo >> window I also noticed that the title to the listinfo page reads >> "dentserv.main.private Mailing Lists". In looking back at the mm_cfg.py file >> contents I noticed that something had been modified after I made the >> revisions you had suggested. The following entries were: >> >> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'dentserv.main.private' >> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'dentserv.main.private' >> >> This is the name of my server and not the domain names as I had previously >> entered. So I proceeded to make the changes as you had previously suggested. >> >> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'domain.com' >> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.domain.com' >> >> After these changes I was finally able to have the lists displayed in the >> listinfo window. I also noticed that the title above now reads >> "www.domain.com Mailing Lists". The titles is the same independent of >> whether I type "www.domain.com/mailman/listinfo" or >> "domain.com/mailman/listinfo". > > > Yes, this is a result of "VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off" which in > addition to displaying all lists on the overview regardless of whether > the list's URL host matches the host in the URL accessing the page > also causes DEFAULT_URL_HOST to be treated as the host. > > >> After that I also made an attempt to create a new list from the web >> interface using "www.domain.com/mailman/create" and this time it worked fine >> without any error messages. >> >> I am left with a question: Why were the two lines above changed from the >> domain names I had entered following your suggestion to the name of the >> server ? Do you think it has something to do with my server settings or do >> you think it may be related with Apple's implementation of Mailman ? > > > I think it must have something to do with Apple's implementation of > Mailman. I suspect it has something to do with Apple's list creation > process. There is nothing in standard GNU Mailman that would edit > mm_cfg.py behind your back, nor would any non-Mailman process do this. > > Perhaps others on this list who are familiar with Apple Server could > shed more light on this. From mark at msapiro.net Sun Apr 17 01:06:45 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 16:06:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman list sends but doesn't receive mail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: JRC Groups wrote: > >It has been suggested to me an approach that I thought might resolve the >problem I am experiencing with the changes constantly made by OS X Server >Admin application to Mailman's mm_cfg.py file. An it specialist who helped >me review my OS X Server set-up and DNS settings suggested that I should >change permissions on this file in order to prevent OS X Server from editing >it. He tried changing the permissions on the file to rw-r--r-- but it still >didn't work. From my limited knowledge of UNIX and terminal it appears to me >that the ownership of the file belongs to -Mailman. Is this right ? It doesn't matter what the owner is. Normally, the group is the mailman group (_mailman in Mac OS X/Darwin) and the file is group writable. In the case of mm_cfg.py, it doesn't need to be writable because Mailman doesn't change it, only you do, but it must be readable by the Mailman group (_mailman). >Can either the permissions or the ownership (and perhaps both) on this file >be modified so as to keep OS X Server from editing it ? Could these >modifications have any adverse effect on Mailman's behavior or would the >program work fine with this file as a read-only file ? You could edit it and then chmod it to r--r--r--, and as far as Mailman is concerned, it would be OK. >What do you think ? I think it won't work because what ever process keeps reverting it is probably running as root and can write the file even without explicit permission. But, you could try. Presumably, when permissions were rw-r--r--, the owner was _mailman, so if the 'reversion' process is running as _mailman, changing the permissions to r--r--r-- may work if it doesn't cause any harmful side effects to the process doing the reversion. >According to the it specialist my set-up and DNS settings are fine. This is >a relief. Now I know that the issue is very likely related to Apple's (poor) >implementation of Mailman. I know one choice I have is to bypass this >bundled version included with OS X Server and install a fresh version of >Mailman. However, considering the work and time involved I would prefer, if >possible, to work with the version I have and that is already set-up. > >What are your thoughts on this matter ? If it were me, the first thing I would do is look in all the directories ~_mailman/Library/LaunchAgents /Library/LaunchAgents /Library/LaunchDaemons /System/Library/LaunchAgents /System/Library/LaunchDaemons for any .plist files with mailman in their names (or any files in the first directory) to see if I could figure out what process is reverting mm_cfg.py and then maybe edit the file to remove the process. If that didn't help, I would go to the FAQ at and from there to Larry Stone's posts on the subject and install Mailman from source. But, first I would be sure to back up my lists and archives and completely remove the Apple mailman to avoid conflicts and to hopefully keep whatever process is reverting your mm_cfg.py from continuing to do it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From techtonik at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 09:26:34 2011 From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 10:26:34 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman integration with Google Groups:allowGroups Subscribers post directly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 10:01 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > anatoly techtonik wrote: > >>On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 9:49 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> anatoly techtonik wrote: >>>> >>>>- how can I setup Mailman, so it can accept mails sent through Google >>>>Groups proxy automatically? - >>> >>> The envelope sender of a google groups post is >>> . If that address were a >>> member of the mailman list with no password reminders and no mail >>> delivery, the posts would be accepted as member posts. The problem is >>> the +some_token suffix to the local part of the address. The >>> Mailman.Message.get_senders() method doesn't treat +some_token as a >>> suffix and since it is variable, it is not possible to subscribe all >>> the possible addresses to the >>> list. Let me concentrate on this part once more. I need only one group to be a frontend for one list. So I need only mails from this group to be delivered - not from all groups. If I understood correctly, +some_token is regenerated every post and it is "envelope address". My own @gmail.com address it not seen by Mailman when the message arrives, so the From: format is "My Name ". Is this right? I am not an administrator and can't validate this information. Just to make clear about the situation. The problem with just subscribing group address that when I post through the group (not being subscribed to the list), my post seems to appear in group only, but not on mailing list. I don't receive any notifications or bounces. But when I subscribe to the list, my post seem to pass through. >>Is it possible to add an option to Mailman itself to strip +token >>before processing email addresses? > > Only by modifying code. Does it qualify as a feature request? >>Does email standard allow to use +token addresses for multiple users? > > I do not understand the question. There will be one message from the > Google Group to the Mailman list. That message's envelope sender will > have a unique token so if it bounces, Google can easily tell which > recipient bounced. The messages from the Google Group to other Google > Group members will each have their own unique token. I see. I thought that if +token is something optional and that email standard specifies that "email+something at domain.com" is equivalent to "email at domain.com" and denotes the same recipient, and that email agents are not required to process the +part, then Mailman could just ignore it. >>> Thus you are left with a couple of other options. If the Google group >>> is set to include a Reply-To: header in >>> delivered posts, and if is a member of >>> the mailman list (with no password reminders and no mail delivery), >>> Mailman.Message.get_senders() will return that address in the senders >>> list and Mailman will consider the post from a member. The group is set into "Replies are sent to the whole group." mode. But the subscribed address is . Now I see where the problem is. >>I'd like to ensure there is some kind protection to >>avoid spam that pretends to be from the Group. The same concern is >>about X-BeenThere header solution. > > It doesn't take much sophistication to craft and send an email message > with anything one wants in the headers. People who want to can already > easily spoof the address of any list member in the From: header of a > message to fool Mailman into accepting the post as from a list member. I thought there is a reverse MX check to validate the message was sent from the IP that belongs to MX record for this domain. >>> So, if you add as a member of the mailman >>> list (with no password reminders and no mail delivery), and either set >>> the google group "Replies to messages" =C2=A0to "Replies are sent to the >>> whole group" or add the above SENDER_HEADERS line to mm_cfg.py, posts >>> arriving via the group will be seen as member posts. >> >>If I set "no mail delivery" then how the Group receive messages for >>reading from the web? > > No mail delivery is a per user option. You set no mail delivery and no > password reminders for only the Google Groups address which is a > member of the Mailman list so that Mailman doesn't send the post back > to the Google Group. Delivery to other members of the Mailman list is > unaffected by this. Still can't understand how Google Group receive messages if Mailman doesn't send anything to its address. Do you mean that "no mail delivery" means that Mailman still sends all messages to Groups address except messages that were posted from this group (containing Group address in Reply-To: header)? -- anatoly t. From mark at msapiro.net Sun Apr 17 17:47:43 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 08:47:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman integration with GoogleGroups:allowGroups Subscribers post directly In-Reply-To: Message-ID: anatoly techtonik wrote: > >Let me concentrate on this part once more. I need only one group to be >a frontend for one list. So I need only mails from this group to be >delivered - not from all groups. If I understood correctly, >+some_token is regenerated every post and it is "envelope address". My >own @gmail.com address it not seen by Mailman when the message >arrives, so the From: format is "My Name >". Is this right? No. You could answer these questions definitively for yourself by just looking at the full headers of any message received from the Google group. The message from the Google group will have headers To: From: and will be sent with the envelope from (reflected in a Return-Path: header) >I am not an administrator and can't validate this information. Just to >make clear about the situation. The problem with just subscribing >group address that when I post through the group (not being subscribed >to the list), my post seems to appear in group only, but not on >mailing list. I don't receive any notifications or bounces. But when I >subscribe to the list, my post seem to pass through. I think you are saying that if you subscribe the Mailman list to the Google group and post to the Google group, your post is sent from the Google group to the Mailman list and is accepted by the Mailman list. If this is the case, and if the Mailman list accepts posts only from list members, then this works because you are a member of the Mailman list. It will also work for any other poster to the Google group who is also a member of the Mailman list. The issue I am trying to help solve is for posts to the Google group from people who are not members of the Mailman list. >>>Is it possible to add an option to Mailman itself to strip +token >>>before processing email addresses? >> >> Only by modifying code. > >Does it qualify as a feature request? Anything can be requested. Feature requests can be submitted to the bug tracker at . >>>Does email standard allow to use +token addresses for multiple users? >> >> I do not understand the question. There will be one message from the >> Google Group to the Mailman list. That message's envelope sender will >> have a unique token so if it bounces, Google can easily tell which >> recipient bounced. The messages from the Google Group to other Google >> Group members will each have their own unique token. > >I see. I thought that if +token is something optional and that email >standard specifies that "email+something at domain.com" is equivalent to >"email at domain.com" and denotes the same recipient, and that email >agents are not required to process the +part, then Mailman could just >ignore it. The Mail RFCs 2822 and 5322 specify regarding the local-part of an address (the part left of the @) The local-part portion is a domain dependent string. In addresses, it is simply interpreted on the particular host as a name of a particular mailbox. I.e., it is up to the receiving domain to assign meaning to any xxx+yyy local part. It is fairly common for the '+yyy' part to be ignored and the 'xxx' part to be treated as the recipient, but as far as I know, there is no standard governing this. Some MTAs use a '-' instead of or in addition to a '+' as the delimiter, some may use other characters and some do not recognize this kind of 'subaddressing' at all. >>>> Thus you are left with a couple of other options. If the Google group >>>> is set to include a Reply-To: header in >>>> delivered posts, and if is a member of >>>> the mailman list (with no password reminders and no mail delivery), >>>> Mailman.Message.get_senders() will return that address in the senders >>>> list and Mailman will consider the post from a member. > >The group is set into "Replies are sent to the whole group." mode. But >the subscribed address is . Now I >see where the problem is. Good. >>>I'd like to ensure there is some kind protection to >>>avoid spam that pretends to be from the Group. The same concern is >>>about X-BeenThere header solution. >> >> It doesn't take much sophistication to craft and send an email message >> with anything one wants in the headers. People who want to can already >> easily spoof the address of any list member in the From: header of a >> message to fool Mailman into accepting the post as from a list member. > >I thought there is a reverse MX check to validate the message was sent >from the IP that belongs to MX record for this domain. Your own incoming MTA can implement any such tests it wants, and there is a standard (SPF) addressing this, but such tests tend to reject lots of legitimate mail, e.g. mail redirected via a .forward. In any case, such tests when used will test the domain of the envelope sender, not the domain of the From: header. >>>> So, if you add as a member of the mailman >>>> list (with no password reminders and no mail delivery), and either set >>>> the google group "Replies to messages" =C2=A0to "Replies are sent to the >>>> whole group" or add the above SENDER_HEADERS line to mm_cfg.py, posts >>>> arriving via the group will be seen as member posts. >>> >>>If I set "no mail delivery" then how the Group receive messages for >>>reading from the web? >> >> No mail delivery is a per user option. You set no mail delivery and no >> password reminders for only the Google Groups address which is a >> member of the Mailman list so that Mailman doesn't send the post back >> to the Google Group. Delivery to other members of the Mailman list is >> unaffected by this. > >Still can't understand how Google Group receive messages if Mailman >doesn't send anything to its address. Do you mean that "no mail >delivery" means that Mailman still sends all messages to Groups >address except messages that were posted from this group (containing >Group address in Reply-To: header)? user at example.com sends a post to group at googlegroups.com. Post is delivered to group members including mailman_list at example.net. Message from group contains Reply-To: and group at googlegroups.com is a member of mailman_list at example.net so message will be accepted by the Mailman list. Do you now want the Mailman list to send the message back to the Google group? If you wish to follow up further, please say exactly what you want to happen when 1) member of Google group who is not member of Mailman list posts to Google group. 2) member of Google group who is member of Mailman list posts to Google group. 3) member of Mailman list who is not member of Google group posts to Mailman list. 4) member of Mailman list who is member of Google group posts to Mailman list. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From joemailgroups at gmail.com Mon Apr 18 08:53:24 2011 From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (JRC Groups) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 23:53:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman list sends but doesn't receive mail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark, Just as you suspected changing permissions to r--r--r-- didn't resolve the problem. The file is still edited after the permission have been modified. On 4/16/11 4:06 PM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: > JRC Groups wrote: >> >> It has been suggested to me an approach that I thought might resolve the >> problem I am experiencing with the changes constantly made by OS X Server >> Admin application to Mailman's mm_cfg.py file. An it specialist who helped >> me review my OS X Server set-up and DNS settings suggested that I should >> change permissions on this file in order to prevent OS X Server from editing >> it. He tried changing the permissions on the file to rw-r--r-- but it still >> didn't work. From my limited knowledge of UNIX and terminal it appears to me >> that the ownership of the file belongs to -Mailman. Is this right ? > > > It doesn't matter what the owner is. Normally, the group is the mailman > group (_mailman in Mac OS X/Darwin) and the file is group writable. In > the case of mm_cfg.py, it doesn't need to be writable because Mailman > doesn't change it, only you do, but it must be readable by the Mailman > group (_mailman). > > >> Can either the permissions or the ownership (and perhaps both) on this file >> be modified so as to keep OS X Server from editing it ? Could these >> modifications have any adverse effect on Mailman's behavior or would the >> program work fine with this file as a read-only file ? > > > You could edit it and then chmod it to r--r--r--, and as far as Mailman > is concerned, it would be OK. After modifying the file's permissions the system is still able to edit it and change it back. >> What do you think ? > > > I think it won't work because what ever process keeps reverting it is > probably running as root and can write the file even without explicit > permission. But, you could try. Presumably, when permissions were > rw-r--r--, the owner was _mailman, so if the 'reversion' process is > running as _mailman, changing the permissions to r--r--r-- may work if > it doesn't cause any harmful side effects to the process doing the > reversion. You are right. >> According to the it specialist my set-up and DNS settings are fine. This is >> a relief. Now I know that the issue is very likely related to Apple's (poor) >> implementation of Mailman. I know one choice I have is to bypass this >> bundled version included with OS X Server and install a fresh version of >> Mailman. However, considering the work and time involved I would prefer, if >> possible, to work with the version I have and that is already set-up. >> >> What are your thoughts on this matter ? > > If it were me, the first thing I would do is look in all the directories > > ~_mailman/Library/LaunchAgents > /Library/LaunchAgents > /Library/LaunchDaemons > /System/Library/LaunchAgents > /System/Library/LaunchDaemons > > for any .plist files with mailman in their names (or any files in the > first directory) to see if I could figure out what process is > reverting mm_cfg.py and then maybe edit the file to remove the process. > > If that didn't help, I would go to the FAQ at > and from there to Larry Stone's posts on > the subject and install Mailman from source. But, first I would be > sure to back up my lists and archives and completely remove the Apple > mailman to avoid conflicts and to hopefully keep whatever process is > reverting your mm_cfg.py from continuing to do it. I have read the page and also contacted Larry Stone. His instructions are for installation on OS X client and not OS X Server. I haven't found instructions on how to remove the Mailman version bundled by Apple with OS X Server. One of my concerns is that Apple's version and the downloaded version would both have several (if not all) files installed as default in the same location and this could lead to potential conflicts. Are you aware of any instructions on how to remove Mailman (hopefully from OS X Server) prior to the installation of a new version ? In case you aren't, do you think it would be a problem to have Mailman installed in a different location than the default just to avoid possible conflicts with the pre-existing version ? Thank you for your help, Joe From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Mon Apr 18 13:28:12 2011 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 06:28:12 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman list sends but doesn't receive mail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4/18/11 1:53 AM, JRC Groups at joemailgroups at gmail.com wrote: > I have read the page and also contacted Larry Stone. His instructions are > for installation on OS X client and not OS X Server. I haven't found > instructions on how to remove the Mailman version bundled by Apple with OS X > Server. One of my concerns is that Apple's version and the downloaded > version would both have several (if not all) files installed as default in > the same location and this could lead to potential conflicts. With some more thought than my quick private reply to you last night, I don't think this is an issue. IIRC, you choose where to install Mailman and I believe it is self-contained in that directory. My latest instructions (for Snow Leopard) suggest /usr/local/mailman but previous versions suggested /Applications/mailman (and if you wanted to, you could call it something like /usr/local/my_private_copy_of_mailman_which_does_not_conflict_with_Apples which is inelegant but would work and I'm pretty sure really does not conflict :-) ). So long as the directory you pick does not exist, then you will not be at risk of a conflict. You would, of course, have to change that name throughout my instructions but that is trivial. The instructions do call for modifying some configuration files of other software (Postfix and Apache) but those files are intended to be user-modifiable and Apple provided updates should not be overriding your mofications. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ From terrycts at comcast.net Sun Apr 17 18:04:58 2011 From: terrycts at comcast.net (Larry Hicok) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 09:04:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting List From Mailman Message-ID: <291285F1-D813-4A42-BCBB-EB5103804F47@comcast.net> I am nowhere near the level of understanding of most of the people on this list. I simply use Mailman to email members from my host website. The mailman files are contained on the hosting site, and I don't appear to have access to them. How can I export the list and save it locally? Larry From mark at msapiro.net Mon Apr 18 16:13:18 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 07:13:18 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting List From Mailman In-Reply-To: <291285F1-D813-4A42-BCBB-EB5103804F47@comcast.net> Message-ID: Larry Hicok wrote: > >I am nowhere near the level of understanding of most of the people on this list. I simply use Mailman to email members from my host website. The mailman files are contained on the hosting site, and I don't appear to have access to them. > >How can I export the list and save it locally? See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From joemailgroups at gmail.com Mon Apr 18 19:43:23 2011 From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (JRC Groups) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 10:43:23 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman list sends but doesn't receive mail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark, Based on what you describe below I thought of perhaps another alternative to this problem. Since there is a process in Apple's Server Admin application that keeps changing Mailman's mm_cfg.py file I think it is safe to assume it expects to find this file there to keep it updated and its removal may likely cause a conflict. Would it be possible to have a copy of this file moved to a different location and have Mailman look at the different location for this file while leaving the old one behind as a "dummy" file so that Apple's System Admin application finds the file it expects to find ? The changes would not impact Mailman as the mm_cfg.py it is using for its configuration is the one in the new location. Do you think this would work ? Thanks, Joe On 4/16/11 4:06 PM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: > It doesn't matter what the owner is. Normally, the group is the mailman > group (_mailman in Mac OS X/Darwin) and the file is group writable. In > the case of mm_cfg.py, it doesn't need to be writable because Mailman > doesn't change it, only you do, but it must be readable by the Mailman > group (_mailman). > > I think it won't work because what ever process keeps reverting it is > probably running as root and can write the file even without explicit > permission. But, you could try. Presumably, when permissions were > rw-r--r--, the owner was _mailman, so if the 'reversion' process is > running as _mailman, changing the permissions to r--r--r-- may work if > it doesn't cause any harmful side effects to the process doing the > reversion. > > If it were me, the first thing I would do is look in all the directories > > ~_mailman/Library/LaunchAgents > /Library/LaunchAgents > /Library/LaunchDaemons > /System/Library/LaunchAgents > /System/Library/LaunchDaemons > > for any .plist files with mailman in their names (or any files in the > first directory) to see if I could figure out what process is > reverting mm_cfg.py and then maybe edit the file to remove the process. From mark at msapiro.net Mon Apr 18 19:54:55 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 10:54:55 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman list sends but doesn't receive mail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: JRC Groups wrote: > >Since there is a process in Apple's Server Admin application that keeps >changing Mailman's mm_cfg.py file I think it is safe to assume it expects to >find this file there to keep it updated and its removal may likely cause a >conflict. > >Would it be possible to have a copy of this file moved to a different >location and have Mailman look at the different location for this file while >leaving the old one behind as a "dummy" file so that Apple's System Admin >application finds the file it expects to find ? The changes would not impact >Mailman as the mm_cfg.py it is using for its configuration is the one in the >new location. > >Do you think this would work ? You would have to move the entire Mailman $prefix directory and then you would have to edit the prefix in all files that reference it including Defaults.py and all the paths.py files in Mailman's bin/, cron/ and tests/ directories and the MTA aliases and apache config, and you would have to set the new location in whatever Apple launchd processes that start Mailman and run Mailman's 'cron' jobs, and that would probably tell the Apple processes where the new mm_cfg.py was anyway. It would be much easier to simply install Mailman from source in some other location, move your lists and archives, update your MTA and apache configs and tell Apple to quit running Mailman. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From joemailgroups at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 21:14:28 2011 From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (JRC Groups) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 12:14:28 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman list sends but doesn't receive mail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark, Thanks again for your help. Since I already have Mailman configured and working in OS X Server I thought it might be worth finding a work around this problem. However, considering your detailed explanation below I will just forget it and try to install a new version. Best regards, Joe On 4/18/11 10:54 AM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: > JRC Groups wrote: >> >> Since there is a process in Apple's Server Admin application that keeps >> changing Mailman's mm_cfg.py file I think it is safe to assume it expects to >> find this file there to keep it updated and its removal may likely cause a >> conflict. >> >> Would it be possible to have a copy of this file moved to a different >> location and have Mailman look at the different location for this file while >> leaving the old one behind as a "dummy" file so that Apple's System Admin >> application finds the file it expects to find ? The changes would not impact >> Mailman as the mm_cfg.py it is using for its configuration is the one in the >> new location. >> >> Do you think this would work ? > > > You would have to move the entire Mailman $prefix directory and then > you would have to edit the prefix in all files that reference it > including Defaults.py and all the paths.py files in Mailman's bin/, > cron/ and tests/ directories and the MTA aliases and apache config, > and you would have to set the new location in whatever Apple launchd > processes that start Mailman and run Mailman's 'cron' jobs, and that > would probably tell the Apple processes where the new mm_cfg.py was > anyway. > > It would be much easier to simply install Mailman from source in some > other location, move your lists and archives, update your MTA and > apache configs and tell Apple to quit running Mailman. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > From jian.gao at sjgeophysics.com Tue Apr 19 20:25:52 2011 From: jian.gao at sjgeophysics.com (Jian Gao) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:25:52 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change WebUI port to 443? Message-ID: <4DADD3B0.1050105@sjgeophysics.com> Hi, I have a mailman setup. Now I want the manage UI listen on port 443(HTTPS) instead of port 80. How to config this? my server version: Apache 2.2.3 Thanks. -- *Jian * From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 19 22:06:00 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 13:06:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change WebUI port to 443? In-Reply-To: <4DADD3B0.1050105@sjgeophysics.com> Message-ID: Jian Gao wrote: >Hi, I have a mailman setup. Now I want the manage UI listen on port >443(HTTPS) instead of port 80. How to config this? See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dag at wieers.com Wed Apr 20 15:44:13 2011 From: dag at wieers.com (Dag Wieers) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 15:44:13 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved header, mailman password and security In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Apr 2011, Dag Wieers wrote: > We have been using the Approved header as a way to automatically approve > commit logs to a read-only mailinglist. We recently moved our infrastructure > to github and I wrote a patch to the github Email service hook to add an > Approved header. > > https://github.com/github/github-services/pull/84 > > Now the problem of course is that this secret currently is either the list > admin or the list moderator password, which is far from secure. Especially if > the mails are not created on the mailman list server. > > So I would propose to allow to set a separate secret used for approved > messages. If compromised, it's easy to change that secret on both sides. > > Is this acceptable ? I received no feedback on this. Shall I open a ticket for this, or is this not considered valuable ? -- -- dag wieers, dag at wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- dagit linux solutions, info at dagit.net, http://dagit.net/ [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors] From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 20 16:54:00 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:54:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved header, mailman password and security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dag Wieers wrote: >On Thu, 14 Apr 2011, Dag Wieers wrote: > >> We have been using the Approved header as a way to automatically approve >> commit logs to a read-only mailinglist. We recently moved our infrastructure >> to github and I wrote a patch to the github Email service hook to add an >> Approved header. >> >> https://github.com/github/github-services/pull/84 >> >> Now the problem of course is that this secret currently is either the list >> admin or the list moderator password, which is far from secure. Especially if >> the mails are not created on the mailman list server. >> >> So I would propose to allow to set a separate secret used for approved >> messages. If compromised, it's easy to change that secret on both sides. >> >> Is this acceptable ? > >I received no feedback on this. Shall I open a ticket for this, or is this >not considered valuable ? Sorry for not responding sooner. I do think it is a good idea. Although many lists do not need separate admins and moderators and could thus use the moderator password in this way, I think a separate 'posters' password would be a valuable change. The problem is Mailman 2.1 is supposed to be feature frozen, and this is a rather extensive change involving the web GUI to set the password, and list migration changes to ensure that list objects have the poster password attribute. We can certainly consider this for MM3. Please open a tracker item at , and I'll see what I can do. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz Thu Apr 21 04:59:11 2011 From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 02:59:11 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading and converting mailman to postfix Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E400CDACB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz> Hi, I have to upgrade a old mailman setup on RHEl3 and sendmail to RHEL6 which comes with postfix by default... So, a) Docs or how easy is it to straight migrate from RHEL3 (2.1.5) to RHEL6 (2.1.12) ? b) How easy is it to convert a sendmail setup with /etc/aliases to postfix? any automated scripts? regards Steven From brad at shub-internet.org Thu Apr 21 06:57:04 2011 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 23:57:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading and converting mailman to postfix In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E400CDACB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz> References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E400CDACB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz> Message-ID: On Apr 20, 2011, at 9:59 PM, Steven Jones wrote: > a) Docs or how easy is it to straight migrate from RHEL3 (2.1.5) to RHEL6 (2.1.12) ? What does Red Hat tell you about migrating from sendmail to postfix with RHEL3 -> RHEL6? In my experience, postfix goes pretty far out of its way to be as much of a drop-in replacement for sendmail as can reasonably be done. But that's in a more typical Unix type of environment where you're building tools from source, or using a BSD-style "ports" system. I can't speak for how that would work in a more regimented binary-only RPM package environment. > b) How easy is it to convert a sendmail setup with /etc/aliases to postfix? any automated scripts? My experience has been that postfix is the most natural MTA to pair with Mailman, and I've been involved in the postfix community since the very earliest days back when Wietse was still calling it VMailer. We've been using postfix with Mailman on python.org at least as long as I've been involved in the Mailman project -- and we're talking multiple years in both cases. By default, postfix includes some standard tools for taking the same sorts of source files and turning them into a postfix-native binary format (by replacing the "newaliases" command, among other things). However, I don't know how Red Hat chooses to modify that situation when they build a postfix package for their platform. You'd have to ask them where their tools are and how those tools change from one version of RHEL to another. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 21 07:21:54 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 22:21:54 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading and converting mailman to postfix In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E400CDACB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz> References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E400CDACB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz> Message-ID: <4DAFBEF2.8030905@msapiro.net> On 4/20/11 7:59 PM, Steven Jones wrote: > Hi, > > I have to upgrade a old mailman setup on RHEl3 and sendmail to RHEL6 > which comes with postfix by default... > > So, > > a) Docs or how easy is it to straight migrate from RHEL3 (2.1.5) to > RHEL6 (2.1.12) ? This is a RedHat packaging question. See the FAQ at . If your RedHat package is 2.1.5-21 or later, it should be no problem. If it is 2.1.5-20 or earlier, many files and directories move as discussed in the FAQ, but the FAQ also tells you where to find a migration script and RedHat's documentation. > b) How easy is it to convert a sendmail setup with /etc/aliases to > postfix? any automated scripts? No conversion is required. Postfix can use the same Mailman aliases as Sendmail in /etc/aliases except that the path to the wrapper may change from /var/mailman/mail/mailman to /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman because of the file changes above. On the other hand, the new package may make various changes in both postfix and Mailman to enable Mailman/Postfix integration, in which case all you'd need to do after migration is to remove Mailman's aliases from /etc/aliases and run Mailman's bin/genaliases to generate the new aliases. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California Better use your sense - B. Dylan From joemailgroups at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 08:42:29 2011 From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (JRC Groups) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 23:42:29 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman list sends but doesn't receive mail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Larry, Thank you for your helpful reply. Although not enthusiastic about it I have decided to follow your advice as well as Mark's and just install a new version of Mailman. I was trying to save myself sometime but considering the explanations both of you have provided I believe it is better to just face the extra work and avoid Apple's version. Now that I now I can simply install it on a new directory that will not conflict with the existing version things should be much simpler. Thank you again for your reply and help with this issue. Best regards, Joe On 4/18/11 4:28 AM, "Larry Stone" wrote: > On 4/18/11 1:53 AM, JRC Groups at joemailgroups at gmail.com wrote: > > >> I have read the page and also contacted Larry Stone. His instructions are >> for installation on OS X client and not OS X Server. I haven't found >> instructions on how to remove the Mailman version bundled by Apple with OS X >> Server. One of my concerns is that Apple's version and the downloaded >> version would both have several (if not all) files installed as default in >> the same location and this could lead to potential conflicts. > > With some more thought than my quick private reply to you last night, I > don't think this is an issue. IIRC, you choose where to install Mailman and > I believe it is self-contained in that directory. My latest instructions > (for Snow Leopard) suggest /usr/local/mailman but previous versions > suggested /Applications/mailman (and if you wanted to, you could call it > something like > /usr/local/my_private_copy_of_mailman_which_does_not_conflict_with_Apples > which is inelegant but would work and I'm pretty sure really does not > conflict :-) ). So long as the directory you pick does not exist, then you > will not be at risk of a conflict. You would, of course, have to change that > name throughout my instructions but that is trivial. > > The instructions do call for modifying some configuration files of other > software (Postfix and Apache) but those files are intended to be > user-modifiable and Apple provided updates should not be overriding your > mofications. From ognen.duzlevski at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 16:01:20 2011 From: ognen.duzlevski at gmail.com (Ognen Duzlevski) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:01:20 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admin question Message-ID: Hello, I have not played much with mailman but I am curious about something. I inherited a machine that runs mailman and one of the lists is setup through postfix aliases to do the following: blah-subscribe /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe blah blah-join /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join blah How do I find out what "mailman join blah" resolves to? I guess my question is ultimately - where do I look to find out who gets the join and subscribe requests? For fun I subscribed to the "blah" list and never received a reply. I looked at the mail logs on the same machine and found an entry along the lines of: Apr 19 20:19:07 (242320 blah: pending There are a bunch of lines below mentioning other users subscribing to the same list and their requests being approved. I realize each machine can be set up differently to process mail but ultimately I am curious as to what mailman join actually does. Thanks! OD From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 21 21:02:01 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 12:02:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admin question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ognen Duzlevski wrote: > >I have not played much with mailman but I am curious about something. I >inherited a machine that runs mailman and one of the lists is setup through >postfix aliases to do the following: > >blah-subscribe /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe blah >blah-join /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join blah Actually, I suspect those aliases look like blah-subscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe blah" blah-join: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join blah" >How do I find out what "mailman join blah" resolves to? I guess my question >is ultimately - where do I look to find out who gets the join and subscribe >requests? The MTA processes that alias by piping the message to say 'blah-join' to the command '/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join blah'. /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman is a wrapper which will ultimately deliver the message in this case to a script named (probably) /usr/lib/mailman/scripts/join which in turn will queue the message for Mailman's CommandRunner which will ultimately process the subscription request. >For fun I subscribed to the "blah" list and never received a >reply. I looked at the mail logs on the same machine and found an entry >along the lines of: > >Apr 19 20:19:07 (242320 blah: pending That specific entry looks like an entry from Mailman's 'subscribe' log which says the subscription request for the blah list was received via the web from and a confirmation request was sent to and Mailman is waiting for the user to confirm. If in fact it had an IP address, it resulted from a web subscribe and had nothing to do with an email to blah-join. If you didn't receive the confirmation request, check the MTA logs to see what happened to it. Also, check the MTA logs to see what happened to the mail to blah-join. >There are a bunch of lines below mentioning other users subscribing to the >same list and their requests being approved. > >I realize each machine can be set up differently to process mail but >ultimately I am curious as to what mailman join actually does. As described above, it causes Mailman to process the message as a request from the sender to join . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Fri Apr 22 12:19:15 2011 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 12:19:15 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admin question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Apr 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Ognen Duzlevski wrote: >> How do I find out what "mailman join blah" resolves to? I guess my >> question is ultimately - where do I look to find out who gets the join >> and subscribe requests? > > The MTA processes that ... I guess the OP did not want to know how mailman works, but who is the list administrator for list "blah" ... after all he inherited a system set up by somebody else. I hope somebody told him the master password ! I guess that doing http://hiswebaddress/mailman/admin he can see all the publicly advertised lists, and then enter each list administration panel. And if the list is not public, he should be able to do http://hiswebaddress/mailman/admin/blah Is that what the OP was asking ? From ognen.duzlevski at gmail.com Fri Apr 22 14:18:18 2011 From: ognen.duzlevski at gmail.com (Ognen Duzlevski) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 08:18:18 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admin question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Ognen Duzlevski wrote: > > > >I have not played much with mailman but I am curious about something. I > >inherited a machine that runs mailman and one of the lists is setup > through > >postfix aliases to do the following: > > > >blah-subscribe /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe blah > >blah-join /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join blah > > > Actually, I suspect those aliases look like > > blah-subscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe blah" > blah-join: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join blah" > > > >How do I find out what "mailman join blah" resolves to? I guess my > question > >is ultimately - where do I look to find out who gets the join and > subscribe > >requests? > > > The MTA processes that alias by piping the message to say 'blah-join' > to the command '/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join blah'. > /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman is a wrapper which will ultimately > deliver the message in this case to a script named (probably) > /usr/lib/mailman/scripts/join which in turn will queue the message for > Mailman's CommandRunner which will ultimately process the subscription > request. > > > >For fun I subscribed to the "blah" list and never received a > >reply. I looked at the mail logs on the same machine and found an entry > >along the lines of: > > > >Apr 19 20:19:07 (242320 blah: pending > > > That specific entry looks like an entry from Mailman's 'subscribe' log > which says the subscription request for the blah list was received via > the web from and a confirmation request was sent to and > Mailman is waiting for the user to confirm. If in fact it had an IP > address, it resulted from a web subscribe and had nothing to do with > an email to blah-join. > > If you didn't receive the confirmation request, check the MTA logs to > see what happened to it. > > Also, check the MTA logs to see what happened to the mail to blah-join. > > > >There are a bunch of lines below mentioning other users subscribing to the > >same list and their requests being approved. > > > >I realize each machine can be set up differently to process mail but > >ultimately I am curious as to what mailman join actually does. > > > As described above, it causes Mailman to process the message as a > request from the sender to join . > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > Mark, Thank you very much for the detailed reply - this is exactly what I was looking for! Ognen From ch at wryfi.net Fri Apr 22 00:55:06 2011 From: ch at wryfi.net (Chris Haumesser) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:55:06 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] disaster recovery help Message-ID: <4DB0B5CA.7090505@wryfi.net> My filesystem recently crashed, breaking some aspects of my mailman installation. The email portion of the list itself is still functioning (for non-digest subscribers), and all the archives are intact. But I seem to be missing some config pickles that are preventing digest delivery, emergency moderation, and probably other features that I haven't stumbled upon yet. All of the broken items generate the following message in the logs: Apr 21 09:00:01 2011 (29813) couldn't load config file /var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/config.pck Apr 21 09:00:01 2011 (29813) couldn't load config file /var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/config.pck.last [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/config.pck.last' Apr 21 09:00:01 2011 (29813) couldn't load config file /var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/config.db [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/config.db' Apr 21 09:00:01 2011 (29813) couldn't load config file /var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/config.db.last EOF read where object expected Apr 21 09:00:01 2011 (29813) All .keep fallbacks were corrupt, giving up Indeed, these files were lost in the filesystem crash, and I do not have backups of them. What are my options here? Can I do something like: - export list of users - move the broken list out of the way - create a new list with the same name - resubscribe members - copy the old archives back into the new list What gotchas am I going to run across trying to do something like the above? Any other suggestions? Appreciate any guidance ... Cheers, -C- From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 22 16:52:19 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 07:52:19 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] disaster recovery help In-Reply-To: <4DB0B5CA.7090505@wryfi.net> Message-ID: Chris Haumesser wrote: >My filesystem recently crashed, breaking some aspects of my mailman >installation. > >The email portion of the list itself is still functioning (for >non-digest subscribers), and all the archives are intact. But I seem to >be missing some config pickles that are preventing digest delivery, >emergency moderation, and probably other features that I haven't >stumbled upon yet. > >All of the broken items generate the following message in the logs: > >Apr 21 09:00:01 2011 (29813) couldn't load config file >/var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/config.pck >Apr 21 09:00:01 2011 (29813) couldn't load config file >/var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/config.pck.last >[Errno 2] No such file or directory: >'/var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/config.pck.last' >Apr 21 09:00:01 2011 (29813) couldn't load config file >/var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/config.db >[Errno 2] No such file or directory: >'/var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/config.db' >Apr 21 09:00:01 2011 (29813) couldn't load config file >/var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/config.db.last >EOF read where object expected >Apr 21 09:00:01 2011 (29813) All .keep fallbacks were corrupt, giving up > >Indeed, these files were lost in the filesystem crash, and I do not have >backups of them. If there are or were any config.db* files, they were left after migration from Mailman 2.0.x to 2.1.x and contained old data from before the migration. Normally it is good to remove them because if they exist and are useable, in a situation such as this Mailman may fall back to using one which is not what you want. The above seems to indicate that there is a /var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/config.pck, but it can't be unpickled for some reason. Is that the case? Given the above, I am amazed that the .keep list works at all, or is it some other list? >What are my options here? Can I do something like: > >- export list of users >- move the broken list out of the way >- create a new list with the same name >- resubscribe members >- copy the old archives back into the new list > >What gotchas am I going to run across trying to do something like the >above? If the list you are talking about is the list named .keep, I don't think you will even be able to export a list of users. If it is some other list, I suggest you move the /var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/ directory somewhere else (out of the /var/lib/mailman/lists/ directory), or, if .keep was not one of your lists, maybe just remove the /var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/ directory and its contents. That in itself may be sufficient to fix the digests problem with other lists (because cron/senddigests is dying on the .keep list and doesn't get to the others). I'm not sure about emergency moderation, but at least (re)move that .keep/ directory, and then see what problems remain and what error log messages might be associated with them. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From ch at wryfi.net Fri Apr 22 18:05:33 2011 From: ch at wryfi.net (Chris Haumesser) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 09:05:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] disaster recovery help In-Reply-To: <4DB0B5CA.7090505@wryfi.net> References: <4DB0B5CA.7090505@wryfi.net> Message-ID: <4DB1A74D.7070207@wryfi.net> On 4/22/11 7:52 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > If there are or were any config.db* files, they were left after > migration from Mailman 2.0.x to 2.1.x and contained old data from > before the migration. There are no config.db files in /var/lib/mailman, they are only mentioned in the log. > The above seems to indicate that there is a > /var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/config.pck, but it can't be unpickled for > some reason. Is that the case? Veritably so. It is an empty file (0 bytes). > Given the above, I am amazed that the .keep list works at all, or is it > some other list? I never created a list called .keep, and indeed the problems are with a different list called 'camp', which is not mentioned anywhere in the error log. I was assuming the .keep folder had something to do with mailman internals. After reading your message, I infer that is not the case, and now suspect it is perhaps a remnant from running fsck on the filesystem. Interestingly, none of my actual lists seem to be missing their config.pck file. Gotta love filesystem corruption. (New backup plan is now in place ... ) > If it is some > other list, I suggest you move the /var/lib/mailman/lists/.keep/ > directory somewhere else (out of the /var/lib/mailman/lists/ > directory) ... Seems reasonable, I'll give it a shot. > That in itself may be sufficient to fix the digests problem with other > lists (because cron/senddigests is dying on the .keep list and doesn't > get to the others). That could certainly explain the digests problem, anyway. Thanks for your help! -C- From stephen at xemacs.org Sat Apr 23 02:12:05 2011 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 09:12:05 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] disaster recovery help In-Reply-To: <4DB1A74D.7070207@wryfi.net> References: <4DB0B5CA.7090505@wryfi.net> <4DB1A74D.7070207@wryfi.net> Message-ID: <87d3kdbzca.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Chris Haumesser writes: > I was assuming the .keep folder had something to do with mailman > internals. That looks like a distro device to make sure that the data directories don't get deleted if you delete the package. Possibly what is happening is that the distro's version is patched to ignore distro housekeeping. Or perhaps the disk corruption flipped the "I am a directory" bit on that, and the recovery process (fsck) actually populated it. Then mailman decided it was a list, and created a config.pck (empty) for it. From kathy at fred.net Sat Apr 23 06:08:06 2011 From: kathy at fred.net (Kathy Bilton) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 00:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages not going out now (though they did when I tested the list) Message-ID: Hi - I just set up a mailing list via the host of my website. They are using Mailman 2.1.14. I tested it out right after I first set it up. The initial three addresses which I placed on the list and to which I sent some test mails all received them without problem. So then I added a whole bunch of addresses - about 250 - which I took from a list to which I had been sending mails via BCC. (In searching archives of the mailman-users list, I found reference to 100 addresses as a maximum - at least for some systems/lists, but when I did the mass subscribe, I got no message indicating I was subscribing more than allowed.) I sent the first mail this morning. I got a bounce request for moderation (even though I was pretty sure I had set my own address not to require moderation). I approved it, but the message never arrived. I went into the membership area and definitely set my own address to not require moderation. I sent the message out again, but have not seen any sign of it. I have the list set to not archive messages, but I know they're going out, at least they're appearing in my Alpine sent-mail. Any help/suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. --Kathy Bilton kathy at fred.net From mark at msapiro.net Sat Apr 23 18:44:52 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 09:44:52 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages not going out now (though they did when Itested the list) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Kathy Bilton wrote: > >I just set up a mailing list via the host of my website. They are using >Mailman 2.1.14. > >I tested it out right after I first set it up. The initial three >addresses which I placed on the list and to which I sent some test mails >all received them without problem. > >So then I added a whole bunch of addresses - about 250 - which I took from >a list to which I had been sending mails via BCC. (In searching archives >of the mailman-users list, I found reference to 100 addresses as a maximum >- at least for some systems/lists, but when I did the mass subscribe, I >got no message indicating I was subscribing more than allowed.) Mailman has no built in limits on the number of list members. See the FAQ at . Some web hosing services that offer Mailman as an 'afterthought' place various restrictions on sending mail that impact Mailman's use for lists exceeding some size or message volume, but that is an issue with the particular host's policies, not with Mailman per se. >I sent the first mail this morning. I got a bounce request for moderation >(even though I was pretty sure I had set my own address not to require >moderation). I approved it, but the message never arrived. What was the reason for which the message was held? How do you know it never arrived after you approved it? (If your address is a Googlemail address, see the FAQ at ). >I went into the membership area and definitely set my own address to not >require moderation. I sent the message out again, but have not seen any >sign of it. > >I have the list set to not archive messages, but I know they're going out, >at least they're appearing in my Alpine sent-mail. That only says the posts got sent to the list. It doesn't prove the list received them, but since you did get at least one held message notice from the list, it is probably safe to assume they reach the list. >Any help/suggestions would be appreciated. This is something that probably only the hosting service can diagnose/resolve. There are a few items in the FAQ at that might be relevant, but basically, since a small list worked, most things are probably OK. The host admins can check Mailman's 'smtp' log to verify the the messages are being sent from Mailman to the outgoing MTA and Mailman's 'smtp-failure' and 'bounce' logs for delivery problems reported to Mailman, and the MTA's logs to see what's happening to the messages after delivery from Mailman to the MTA. If they wish to pursue this, they can ask this list for help, and we will do our best to provide it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net Sat Apr 23 19:06:29 2011 From: dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 10:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bad is full of files...how do I find out why? Message-ID: Running this on Debian Lenny, pending an upgrade. I just discovered that there are hundreds of files in qfiles/bad for some reason. The manual tells me nothing, except some basic installation troubleshooting. So this raises a few questions: 1) Any ideas as to what causes this? 2) How do I find out the exact cause? 3) What is the best way to solve the problem? -Dennis From mark at msapiro.net Sat Apr 23 19:28:07 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 10:28:07 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bad is full of files...how do I find out why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dennis Carr wrote: > >I just discovered that there are hundreds of files in qfiles/bad for some >reason. The manual tells me nothing, except some basic installation >troubleshooting. So this raises a few questions: > >1) Any ideas as to what causes this? >2) How do I find out the exact cause? >3) What is the best way to solve the problem? For every one of those files, there should be an 'error' log entry saying most likely, "Skipping and preserving unparseable message:". These most likely result from malformed spam messages. You can look at the entries with bin/dumpdb -p. Other possible but unlikely messages are "SHUNTING FAILED, preserving original entry:" associated with a traceback, "Unpickling .bak exception:" and ".bak file max count, preserving file:". -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From ch at wryfi.net Sat Apr 23 22:02:40 2011 From: ch at wryfi.net (Chris Haumesser) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 13:02:40 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] disaster recovery help In-Reply-To: <4DB0B5CA.7090505@wryfi.net> References: <4DB0B5CA.7090505@wryfi.net> Message-ID: <4DB33060.2080802@wryfi.net> As Mark suggested, I removed /var/lib/mailman/.keep, and this resolved the immediate errors. However, upon trying to visit the moderation page for another list, I was still getting (a now different) error in my logs about insecure permissions on a pickle. Using dumpdb, I found that pending.pck and request.pck for the list were corrupt, but config.pck was intact. Luckily I don't think there was much, if anything, in pending.pck or request.pck. So I just removed them, and my list now seems to be back up and running. Hooray! Thanks for your help guys. Cheers, -C- From mark at msapiro.net Sat Apr 23 23:09:29 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 14:09:29 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bad is full of files...how do I find out why? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DB34009.3040600@msapiro.net> Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Carr wrote: >> >>I just discovered that there are hundreds of files in qfiles/bad for some >>reason. The manual tells me nothing, except some basic installation >>troubleshooting. So this raises a few questions: >> >>1) Any ideas as to what causes this? >>2) How do I find out the exact cause? >>3) What is the best way to solve the problem? > > > For every one of those files, there should be an 'error' log entry > saying most likely, "Skipping and preserving unparseable message:". I was on my way out the door when I sent the above, so here's a bit more. See the documentation for the settings QRUNNER_SAVE_BAD_MESSAGES = Yes BAD_SHUNT_STALE_AFTER = days(7) BAD_SHUNT_ARCHIVE_DIRECTORY = None in Defaults.py and if the setting for BAD_SHUNT_STALE_AFTER has not been overridden in mm_cfg.py and there are files older than 7 days in qfiles/bad, make sure that Mailman's crontab is running cron/cull_bad_shunt. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 26 03:40:48 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 18:40:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved header, mailman password and security In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DB622A0.5050004@msapiro.net> I have created a tracker item at for this and implemented it for Mailman 2.1.15. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From ljprevo at yahoo.com Mon Apr 25 17:29:43 2011 From: ljprevo at yahoo.com (L. James Prevo) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 08:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail Admin/Owner Notifications Message-ID: <339363.13662.qm@web45203.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Having a weird issue with my mailman list. ?I am using my gmail account as the list owner and moderator. When an email is sent to the list from someone else I get the email from the list just fine, the problem is when someone joins the list I am not getting any of the email notifications at all, not even in spam.? I switched to a non-gmail email address and I then get the notifications just fine. ?Very?weird. Any help/suggestion? From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 26 08:41:45 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 23:41:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail Admin/Owner Notifications In-Reply-To: <339363.13662.qm@web45203.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <339363.13662.qm@web45203.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DB66929.1040605@msapiro.net> On 4/25/2011 8:29 AM, L. James Prevo wrote: > Having a weird issue with my mailman list. I am using my gmail account as the list owner and moderator. > When an email is sent to the list from someone else I get the email from the list just fine, the problem is when someone joins the list I am not getting any of the email notifications at all, not even in spam. > I switched to a non-gmail email address and I then get the notifications just fine. Very weird. > Any help/suggestion? This is reminiscent of the problem of the FAQ at , but it is not that problem. However, it would seem to be a gmail issue of some sort. If you have access to the MTA logs on the server directly or indirectly, verify that the messages are sent to and accepted by gmail. If so, gmail is discarding them for some reason. The FAQ at may have useful information. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From admin at ivclive.org Tue Apr 26 17:20:29 2011 From: admin at ivclive.org (Website Administrator) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 11:20:29 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address References: Message-ID: <487ECB37-636F-4CE4-88C3-3ED7E77FF1FC@ivclive.org> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> Can you please advice why the email is going through like this? Is there anyway to change this? >> >> >> >> From: hq_test-bounces at dummy.com [mailto:hq_test-bounces at dummy.com] On Behalf Of Amyn Gilani >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 11:59 PM >> To: hq_test at groups.dummy.com >> Subject: [HQ Test] New List Test >> >> >> >> Is there anyway to change the From? First choice would be the name of person if not that then second would be hq_test-owner at dummy.com ? >> >> Thanks, >> >> With Regards >> >> >> >> >> >> Amyn Gilani >> From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Tue Apr 26 17:27:53 2011 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 18:27:53 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address In-Reply-To: <487ECB37-636F-4CE4-88C3-3ED7E77FF1FC@ivclive.org> References: <487ECB37-636F-4CE4-88C3-3ED7E77FF1FC@ivclive.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Apr 2011, Website Administrator wrote: >>> Can you please advice why the email is going through like this? Is there anyway to change this? >>> >>> >>> >>> From: hq_test-bounces at dummy.com [mailto:hq_test-bounces at dummy.com] On Behalf Of Amyn Gilani It's actually going through just fine, it's the Email client which is displaying it wrong. The From address will be that of the poster. Geoff. From noah-list at enabled.com Tue Apr 26 17:39:20 2011 From: noah-list at enabled.com (Noah Garrett Wallach) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 08:39:20 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderated Posts question Message-ID: <4DB6E728.8040502@enabled.com> Hi there, two questions: 1) I want to reject all posts from members as well. What is the setting to do that? 2) I am getting Messages from members with "Too many recipients to the message" Where is the setting to turn off "Too many recipients to the message" checks? Cheers, Noah From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 26 18:04:44 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:04:44 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff Shang wrote: >On Tue, 26 Apr 2011, Website Administrator wrote: > >>>> Can you please advice why the email is going through like this? Is there anyway to change this? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: hq_test-bounces at dummy.com [mailto:hq_test-bounces at dummy.com] On Behalf Of Amyn Gilani > >It's actually going through just fine, it's the Email client which is >displaying it wrong. The From address will be that of the poster. See the FAQ at for more detail and what you can do about it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 26 18:10:14 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:10:14 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderated Posts question In-Reply-To: <4DB6E728.8040502@enabled.com> Message-ID: Noah Garrett Wallach wrote: > >1) I want to reject all posts from members as well. What is the setting >to do that? See the FAQ at . >2) I am getting Messages from members with "Too many recipients to the >message" Where is the setting to turn off "Too many recipients to the >message" checks? Privacy options... -> Recipient filters -> max_num_recipients -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From network at matilda.net.au Wed Apr 27 03:59:58 2011 From: network at matilda.net.au (Mike Manning) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 11:59:58 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce emails and Qmail Message-ID: <4DB7789E.2020707@matilda.net.au> Hi there, We use Mailman 2.1 with Qmail and Plesk (v10.2). Everything works nicely with Mailman however it's not sending out the bounce emails to the owner to say there are pending requests. Upon checking the /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure logs, it's showing that website-owner at website.name doesn't exist when mailman tries to send the bounce request to the list owner. It does however send back the user who sent the email a pending request saying that their email is awaiting authorization. There's all the .qmail files in /var/qmail/mailnames/website/.qmail-listname-* and have this type of format: |/var/qmail/bin/preline /usr/lib/plesk-9.0/mm_wrapper /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner websitename If I try and send an email directly to website-owner at website.name, it'll bounce back straight away with: 550 sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.7.17) It's like qmail isn't passing control to mailman when doing recipient verification? Has anyone else had these issues with Plesk and Qmail? Cheers, Mike From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Apr 27 17:33:45 2011 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 00:33:45 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation notifications and Qmail In-Reply-To: <4DB7789E.2020707@matilda.net.au> References: <4DB7789E.2020707@matilda.net.au> Message-ID: <87iptzaeue.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Mike Manning writes: > We use Mailman 2.1 with Qmail and Plesk (v10.2). Everything works nicely > with Mailman however it's not sending out the bounce emails "Bounce" is a term of art; it means "mail returned because it was undeliverable". Mailman doesn't send out bounces to anybody, although it may forward bounces it has received from MTAs to list owners. The messages you are referring to are notifications of pending moderation. It's important to keep these separate because bounce processing is an extremely important (and complex!) part of Mailman functionality, but it is completely separate from the moderation queue. > to the owner to say there are pending requests. Upon checking the > /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure logs, it's showing that > website-owner at website.name doesn't exist when mailman tries to send > the bounce request to the list owner. Evidently, Mailman has been configured to send to a non-existent address. (See the 2d and 3d items on the General Options page, assuming Plesk hasn't mangled it.) There is not enough information to speculate on how this happened, but it's not a Mailman problem. To solve it, somebody needs to get real addresses of the mailing list owners, and either configure Mailman to send to them directly, or to set up aliases to website-owner at website.name for them in qmail so the that the pre-configured addresses work. It's possible that Plesk offers a front-end that is supposed to handle this in a convenient way, but if that's failing, it's a Plesk problem. > It's like qmail isn't passing control to mailman when doing recipient > verification? Mailman doesn't, and can't, verify addresses; it can only ask qmail to try to send to the addresses that admins and subscribers have registered with it. From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 27 17:48:10 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 08:48:10 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce emails and Qmail In-Reply-To: <4DB7789E.2020707@matilda.net.au> Message-ID: Mike Manning wrote: >There's all the .qmail files in >/var/qmail/mailnames/website/.qmail-listname-* and have this type of format: > >|/var/qmail/bin/preline /usr/lib/plesk-9.0/mm_wrapper >/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner websitename > >If I try and send an email directly to website-owner at website.name, it'll >bounce back straight away with: >550 sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.7.17) > >It's like qmail isn't passing control to mailman when doing recipient >verification? Has anyone else had these issues with Plesk and Qmail? The specific qmail alias you quote above looks wrong. I would expect something more like |/var/qmail/bin/preline /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner websitename or |/var/qmail/bin/preline /usr/lib/plesk-9.0/mm_wrapper owner websitename Look at the /var/qmail/mailnames/website/.qmail-listname file. The /var/qmail/mailnames/website/.qmail-listname-owner file should have exactly the same ownership and permissions and should have exactly the same contents except where /var/qmail/mailnames/website/.qmail-listname has 'post', /var/qmail/mailnames/website/.qmail-listname-owner should have 'owner' (and similarly for the other /var/qmail/mailnames/website/.qmail-listname-* files). -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dag at wieers.com Thu Apr 28 00:50:55 2011 From: dag at wieers.com (Dag Wieers) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 00:50:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved header, mailman password and security In-Reply-To: <4DB622A0.5050004@msapiro.net> References: <4DB622A0.5050004@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Apr 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: > I have created a tracker item at > for this and > implemented it for Mailman 2.1.15. Hi Mark, It's nice to return from a prolonged weekend to find this in the mailbox :) Thanks a lot ! PS I broke the news on github as well for future reference: https://github.com/github/github-services/pull/84 Kind regards, -- -- dag wieers, dag at wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- dagit linux solutions, info at dagit.net, http://dagit.net/ [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors] From mailman at veggiechinese.net Thu Apr 28 01:51:46 2011 From: mailman at veggiechinese.net (William Yardley) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:51:46 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] per-list personalization without enabling OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE... Message-ID: <20110427235145.GT12268@mitch.veggiechinese.net> http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030545 seems to suggest that it's possible to enable personalization (for headers / footers of messages), without enabling VERP itself (for the envelope-sender of messages). Is that correct? Some of the mailing list messages I have seen seem to imply that you have to also Also, is it possible to toggle personalization under the hood (using withlist / config_list to set 'mlist.personalize = 2') /without/ enabling OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION globally? I have a case where I'd like to enable personalization for a couple of lists without allowing any other list owners to enable this feature. w From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 28 02:43:15 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:43:15 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] per-list personalization without enablingOWNERS_CAN_ENABLE... In-Reply-To: <20110427235145.GT12268@mitch.veggiechinese.net> Message-ID: William Yardley wrote: >http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030545 seems to >suggest that it's possible to enable personalization (for headers / >footers of messages), without enabling VERP itself (for the >envelope-sender of messages). > >Is that correct? Some of the mailing list messages I have seen seem to >imply that you have to also Yes, that is correct. personalization and VERP are independent. The conflation comes because if you are already VERPing all messages, there is no additional sending cost for personalization, or if you are personalizing some messages, you can VERP those at no extra cost by setting VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes. >Also, is it possible to toggle personalization under the hood (using >withlist / config_list to set 'mlist.personalize = 2') /without/ >enabling OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION globally? I have a case where >I'd like to enable personalization for a couple of lists without >allowing any other list owners to enable this feature. You can do it with withlist. You can't do it in the 'usual' way with config_list because config_list knows that personalize is not a property that can be set if OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION is false. You can do it with config_list by setting mlist.personalize = 2 just not by setting personalize = 2 However, if all you want is to enable the header/footer replacements and not personalize the To: header of delivered messages, you want to set personalize to 1, not 2. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From kontakt at stefan-hesse.net Thu Apr 28 04:36:51 2011 From: kontakt at stefan-hesse.net (Stefan Hesse) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 04:36:51 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qmail and mailman - alias problems Message-ID: <4DB8D2C3.9000808@stefan-hesse.net> Hi, I am trying to set up the aliases for qmail. I used the Skript (manually) from the FAQ for 2.1 version of mailman. But after executing it I stillt get this error: "Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)" A few things I am not sure about: I wrote in my virtualdomains: lists.mydomain.net:list 1. Is the list user correct? I used list because mailman doesn't exist and list is the only one, that is linked some how to mailman 2. Where am I supposed to execute the script from the FAQ? I executed it in /var/qmail/alias Was that correct? From dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net Fri Apr 29 02:04:53 2011 From: dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 17:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attempting to update Mailman, but qfiles/* has files Message-ID: Note, running Debian Stable on the server. I'm attempting to update Mailman through aptitude, but it warns me that all files in the qfiles tree will be wiped out. This includes files that have been bouncing back and forth between qfiles/out and qfiles/retry. It's not quite clear as to when these messages have landed there. Moreover, I noted that I have a good sized stack of messages in qfiles/bad - which I'm not too worried about, since the dates are pretty old. In short, what is the best way to proceed, given the circumstances? -Dennis From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 29 02:28:59 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 17:28:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attempting to update Mailman, but qfiles/* has files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dennis Carr wrote: > >I'm attempting to update Mailman through aptitude, but it warns me that >all files in the qfiles tree will be wiped out. This includes files that >have been bouncing back and forth between qfiles/out and qfiles/retry. >It's not quite clear as to when these messages have landed there. Move the files from qfiles/retry aside somewhere. You may need to do this more than once if files have been moved from retry to out for processing and haven't finished. >Moreover, I noted that I have a good sized stack of messages in >qfiles/bad - which I'm not too worried about, since the dates are pretty >old. See the posts at and for information about the qfiles/bad entries. You can move these aside too if you wish, or just look at them in place, or ignore them. Look at the files from the retry queue with 'bin/dumpdb -p'. This will show you the message and the metadata. The metadata contains the undelivered recipient list. If the addresses are in fact bad, you can just ignore that file, but you might want to consider whether you want your MTA to be returning a retryable status for these addresses. (Hint: if this is Postfix, you may want to set 'unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550' in main.cf.) If there are any you want to keep from qfiles/retry, you can move them back after the upgrade. There is no point in moving back any qfiles/bad files as they have only been saved for forensic analysis and nothing further will be done with them by Mailman. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Mike.Mcrae at csiro.au Fri Apr 29 01:42:24 2011 From: Mike.Mcrae at csiro.au (Mike.Mcrae at csiro.au) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 09:42:24 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about excessive bounces Message-ID: <206DEE363D550948954284C823BAE67E011550391214@EXNSW-MBX05.nexus.csiro.au> Hi, I administrate two Mailman mailing lists at ScienceByEmailHTML and ScienceByEmailPlain. We have approximately 39 000 addresses in the former list, and about 1000 in the latter. I have a question about the bounces we receive. We have the lists set so after five bounces, the address is automatically disabled. An notification is sent alerting us to the disabled account, where we then delete the address from our own records as well as Mailman. Depending on the week, we can get over a hundred of these notifications which come in batches, arriving typically on Friday (although we also get waves coming in on Monday as well). However, we can also go a week without receiving a single one. Given the spread of excessive bounces is often in excess of a hundred, and rarely fewer than 60 or 70, I'm wondering if you know why this might be the case. Also, why do they arrive in waves? Is it collated and sent periodically through Mailman, or is it a result of batches of bounces being sent back from servers? Cheers, Mike From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Fri Apr 29 08:52:42 2011 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 08:52:42 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about excessive bounces In-Reply-To: <206DEE363D550948954284C823BAE67E011550391214@EXNSW-MBX05.nexus.csiro.au> References: <206DEE363D550948954284C823BAE67E011550391214@EXNSW-MBX05.nexus.csiro.au> Message-ID: <20110429065241.GA13600@charite.de> * Mike.Mcrae at csiro.au : > Hi, > > I administrate two Mailman mailing lists at ScienceByEmailHTML and > ScienceByEmailPlain. We have approximately 39 000 addresses in the > former list, and about 1000 in the latter. I have a question about the > bounces we receive. > > We have the lists set so after five bounces, the address is > automatically disabled. An notification is sent alerting us to the > disabled account, where we then delete the address from our own records > as well as Mailman. > > Depending on the week, we can get over a hundred of these notifications > which come in batches, arriving typically on Friday (although we also > get waves coming in on Monday as well). Well, since bounces are generated when mails are sent via the list, the waves would correspond to about ever 5th posting on the list. No traffic -> No bounces -> no unsubscriptions -- Ralf Hildebrandt Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de From bsfinkel at anl.gov Fri Apr 29 14:34:55 2011 From: bsfinkel at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 07:34:55 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attempting to update Mailman, but qfiles/* has files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DBAB06F.1090004@anl.gov> On 04/28/11 19:04, Dennis Carr wrote: > Note, running Debian Stable on the server. > > I'm attempting to update Mailman through aptitude, but it warns me that > all files in the qfiles tree will be wiped out. This includes files that > have been bouncing back and forth between qfiles/out and qfiles/retry. > It's not quite clear as to when these messages have landed there. > > Moreover, I noted that I have a good sized stack of messages in > qfiles/bad - which I'm not too worried about, since the dates are pretty > old. > > In short, what is the best way to proceed, given the circumstances? > > -Dennis I had a problem with qfiles/bad the last time I tried to update. After research, I determined that those files were old and could be deleted. I now run a cron every morning to tell me what is in qfiles/bad so that I can research and handle before they cause problems. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 240, Room 5.B.8 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 29 16:15:45 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 07:15:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attempting to update Mailman, but qfiles/* has files In-Reply-To: <4DBAB06F.1090004@anl.gov> Message-ID: Barry Finkel wrote: > >I had a problem with qfiles/bad the last time I tried to update. >After research, I determined that those files were old and >could be deleted. I now run a cron every morning to tell me >what is in qfiles/bad so that I can research and handle before >they cause problems. It seems that whenever you upgraded Mailman from pre-2.1.11 to 2.1.11 or later, you didn't update Mailman's crontab to run the cron/cull_bad_shunt job. See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 29 16:52:59 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 07:52:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about excessive bounces In-Reply-To: <206DEE363D550948954284C823BAE67E011550391214@EXNSW-MBX05.nexus.csiro.au> Message-ID: wrote: > >I administrate two Mailman mailing lists at ScienceByEmailHTML and ScienceByEmailPlain. We have approximately 39 000 addresses in the former list, and about 1000 in the latter. I have a question about the bounces we receive. > >We have the lists set so after five bounces, the address is automatically disabled. An notification is sent alerting us to the disabled account, where we then delete the address from our own records as well as Mailman. Mailman will automatically delete members with delivery disabled by bounce according to the settings bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings and bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval. If bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings is set to 0, the member will be removed immediately after the disabling bounce is received. >Depending on the week, we can get over a hundred of these notifications which come in batches, arriving typically on Friday (although we also get waves coming in on Monday as well). This is strange. Unless you only post on Friday's and Mondays, or unless there is some unusual reason for the bouncing addresses to "go bad", I would expect bounces to be uniformly distributed over the days there are posts. Also, I find it possibly unusual that even out of 40,000 addresses that 100+ per week "go bad", but maybe not. >However, we can also go a week without receiving a single one. Given the spread of excessive bounces is often in excess of a hundred, and rarely fewer than 60 or 70, I'm wondering if you know why this might be the case. Also, why do they arrive in waves? Is it collated and sent periodically through Mailman, or is it a result of batches of bounces being sent back from servers? Mailman collects bounces and processes them in batches, but this depends on the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting REGISTER_BOUNCES_EVERY which defaults to 15 minutes, and even if it were for some strange (and probably misguided) reason set to something like 5 to 7 days, I would still expect "bounce day" to be more variable. You need to check Mailman's 'bounce' log to see when bounces are being received/registered, and Mailman's 'smtp-failure' log for potential delivery issues. You also need to look at the actual bounce notifications attached to the disabled notices to see that these seem to be legitimate bounces. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 29 17:02:58 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 08:02:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about excessive bounces In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark Sapiro wrote: > >You need to check Mailman's 'bounce' log to see when bounces are being >received/registered, and Mailman's 'smtp-failure' log for potential >delivery issues. You also need to look at the actual bounce >notifications attached to the disabled notices to see that these seem >to be legitimate bounces. There is also the possibility that due to some strangeness in your outgoing MTA, messages are queued there for a long time and sent mostly on Fridays and Mondays. Look at your MTA's logs and perhaps Mailman's 'smtp' log too and see what's going on there. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From barry at list.org Fri Apr 29 17:45:38 2011 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:45:38 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for volunteers: convert wiki to Moin Message-ID: <20110429114538.09c4e806@neurotica.wooz.org> For many years, Atlassian has provided the GNU Mailman project with free (as in beer) wiki hosting on their proprietary platform. This has included a free license, free hosting, and free support. We are very grateful to them for this, as our wiki contains lots of useful information that help you, the members of our Mailman community. The current wiki was offered to us at a time when we didn't really have any other options. However, GNU Mailman is free software and a GNU project, so it is not appropriate for us to be hosting our wiki on non-free software. We have offers for hosting a new wiki on Moin a very excellent free wiki engine written in Python. The major hurdle is actually finding the resources to do a high-fidelity conversion from the current wiki to Moin, retaining as much of the current feature set, layout, and history as possible during the migration. None of the core Mailman developers has time to do this, though we will support the effort. We tried, but were unable to get a slot in this year's Google Summer of Code for the conversion work. Now the FSF has put out a call for volunteers: http://tinyurl.com/3gnaurt If you'd like to help GNU Mailman in this way, please contact the FSF at info at fsf.org. We will provide as full a data dump from the current wiki as possible, and guidance for requirements, etc., and the Moin developers have graciously made themselves available to help with the technical details. Your conversion work will of course be free software itself, so it will help Moin and other free software projects wanting to do similar conversions. I hope you'll consider help us out with this. Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From barry at list.org Fri Apr 29 23:31:54 2011 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:31:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED: Mailman 3.0 alpha 7 Message-ID: <20110429173154.402e4386@neurotica.wooz.org> I am very happy to announce the release of the seventh alpha for Mailman 3.0, code named "Mission". Here are some of the highlights of a release with lots of new stuff (a more detailed NEWS.txt file excerpt is below). * Significant improvements to the subscription model. Users can now subscribe to mailing lists with either an explicit address or a "preferred" address. When a user changes her preferred address, all of her subscriptions automatically track this change. All this and more have also all been exposed to the REST API. * New rules for member and non-member moderation. This effectively ports and updates Mailman 2's moderation rules to the Mailman 3 framework. * Support for SMTP AUTH added. * The default password encryption scheme can be defined in the configuration file, and all passwords are by default encrypted (using SSHA1). * 'bin/mailman status' command added to provide command line status of the master queue runner process. * 'bin/mailman info' now prints the REST API root url and credentials. * Basic Auth support for the REST API was added. (thanks Jimmy Bergman) * Python 2.7 is supported. I'm really excited about this release because it will provide a great baseline for our Google Summer of Code students. If you've been putting off taking a look at Mailman 3, I encourage you to download it and play with it. My goal is for a final release on 11.11.11 so there will not be too many more alphas. Now is the best time to influence our design decisions. The tarball can be downloaded from Launchpad or the Cheeseshop: https://launchpad.net/mailman http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailman The full documentation is also online: http://packages.python.org/mailman/docs/README.html Enjoy, -Barry 3.0 alpha 7 -- "Mission" ======================== (2011-04-29) Architecture ------------ * Significant updates to the subscription model. Members can now subscribe with a preferred address, and changes to that will be immediately reflected in mailing list subscriptions. Users who subscribe with an explicit address can easily change to a different address, as long as that address is verified. (LP: #643949) * IUsers and IMembers are now assigned a unique, random, immutable id. * IUsers now have created_on and .preferred_address properties. * IMembers now have a .user attribute for easy access to the subscribed user. * When created with add_member(), passwords are always stored encrypted. * In all interfaces, "email" refers to the textual email address while "address" refers to the `IAddress` object. * mailman.chains.base.Chain no longer self registers. * New member and nonmember moderation rules and chains. This effectively ports moderation rules from Mailman 2 and replaces attributes such as member_moderation_action, default_member_moderation, and generic_nonmember_action. Now, nonmembers exist as subscriptions on a mailing list and members have a moderation_action attribute which describes the disposition for postings from that address. * Member.is_moderated was removed because of the above change. * default_member_action and default_nonmember_action were added to mailing lists. * All sender addresses are registered (unverified) with the user manager by the incoming queue runner. This way, nonmember moderation rules will always have an IAddress that they can subscribe to the list (as MemberRole.nonmember). * Support for SMTP AUTH added via smtp_user and smtp_pass configuration variables in the [mta] section. (LP: #490044) * IEmailValidator interface for pluggable validation of email addresses. * .subscribe() is moved from the IAddress to the IMailingList * IAddresses get their registered_on attribute set when the object is created. Configuration ------------- * [devmode] section gets a new 'testing' variable. * Added password_scheme and password_length settings for defining the default password encryption scheme. * creator_pw_file and site_pw_file are removed. Commands -------- * 'bin/mailman start' does a better job of producing an error when Mailman is already running. * 'bin/mailman status' added for providing command line status on the master queue runner watcher process. * 'bin/mailman info' now prints the REST root url and credentials. * mmsitepass removed; there is no more site password. REST ---- * Add Basic Auth support for REST API security. (Jimmy Bergman) * Include the fqdn_listname and email address in the member JSON representation. * Added reply_goes_to_list, send_welcome_msg, welcome_msg, default_member_moderation to the mailing list's writable attributes in the REST service. (Jimmy Bergman) * Expose the new membership model to the REST API. Canonical member resource URLs are now much shorter and live in their own top-level namespace instead of within the mailing list's namespace. * /addresses//memberships gets all the memberships for a given email address. * /users is a new top-level URL under which user information can be accessed. Posting to this creates new users. * Users can subscribe to mailing lists through the REST API. * Domains can be deleted via the REST API. * PUT and PATCH to a list configuration now returns a 204 (No Content). Build ----- * Support Python 2.7. (LP: #667472) * Disable site-packages in buildout.cfg because of LP: #659231. * Don't include eggs/ or parts/ in the source tarball. (LP: #656946) * flufl.lock is now required instead of locknix. Bugs fixed ---------- * Typo in scan_message(). (LP: #645897) * Typo in add_member(). (LP: #710182) (Florian Fuchs) * Re-enable bounce detectors. (LP: #756943) * Clean up many pyflakes problems; ditching pylint. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From odhiambo at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 10:15:52 2011 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 11:15:52 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED: Mailman 3.0 alpha 7 In-Reply-To: <20110429173154.402e4386@neurotica.wooz.org> References: <20110429173154.402e4386@neurotica.wooz.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 00:31, Barry Warsaw wrote: > I am very happy to announce the release of the seventh alpha for Mailman > 3.0, > code named "Mission". Here are some of the highlights of a release with > lots > of new stuff (a more detailed NEWS.txt file excerpt is below). > > * Significant improvements to the subscription model. Users can now > subscribe > to mailing lists with either an explicit address or a "preferred" address. > When a user changes her preferred address, all of her subscriptions > automatically track this change. All this and more have also all been > exposed to the REST API. > * New rules for member and non-member moderation. This effectively ports > and > updates Mailman 2's moderation rules to the Mailman 3 framework. > * Support for SMTP AUTH added. > * The default password encryption scheme can be defined in the > configuration > file, and all passwords are by default encrypted (using SSHA1). > * 'bin/mailman status' command added to provide command line status of the > master queue runner process. > * 'bin/mailman info' now prints the REST API root url and credentials. > * Basic Auth support for the REST API was added. (thanks Jimmy Bergman) > * Python 2.7 is supported. > > I'm really excited about this release because it will provide a great > baseline > for our Google Summer of Code students. If you've been putting off taking > a > look at Mailman 3, I encourage you to download it and play with it. My > goal > is for a final release on 11.11.11 so there will not be too many more > alphas. > Now is the best time to influence our design decisions. > > The tarball can be downloaded from Launchpad or the Cheeseshop: > > https://launchpad.net/mailman > http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailman > > The full documentation is also online: > > Great stride! Now, on my FreeBSD 8.2 Server, I am eager to try this version out. I am following the steps. #bin/test -vv [snip] test_simple_wrap (mailman.utilities.tests.test_wrap.TestWrap) test_two_paragraphs (mailman.utilities.tests.test_wrap.TestWrap) Ran 134 tests with 0 failures and 0 errors in 0.581 seconds. Tearing down left over layers: Tear down zope.testrunner.layer.UnitTests in 0.000 seconds. Tests with errors: Layer: mailman.testing.layers.ConfigLayer Layer: mailman.testing.layers.SMTPLayer Layer: mailman.testing.layers.RESTLayer Total: 134 tests, 0 failures, 3 errors in 0.831 seconds. mail# bin/docs building docs for mailman ---> sphinx-build -q -c /usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/parts/docs/mailman /usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman /usr/local /mailman-3.0.0a7/parts/docs/mailman/build/mailman Extension error: Could not import extension sphinxconf (exception: No module named sphinxconf) mail# What might be missing? -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.