From terri at zone12.com  Sat May  1 06:05:04 2010
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 00:05:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using the command line (was Re: List all users on
 one page)
In-Reply-To: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B3BA@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com>
References: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B3BA@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com>
Message-ID: <4BDBA870.3040703@zone12.com>

There are quite a variety of tutorials, all of which are rather out of 
scope for this list.  Search for "command line tutorial" or somesuch in 
google and you'll find plenty of links.

Here's one for linux: http://www.linuxcommand.org/
And here's for windows: 
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/tutorial76.html

(I haven't used either of those, since I learned the command line 
several decades ago, but at a glance they look reasonable.)

If those don't suit, many local libraries and colleges can introduce you 
to someone who can do one-on-one training, assuming you're willing to 
pay for an hour of someone's time.

  Terri




Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote:
> This is the same question I have.  I don't know how to use to script in Windows XP.  I only use to web to get to my mail.  Nothing is saved on my system.
> 
> 
> Re: [Mailman-Users] List all users on one page
> 
> Mark Sapiro
> Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:10:41 -0700
> 
> Brian Luria
> 
> 
>> Where is the best place for me to start understanding terminal commands like
> 
>> you list there. I am honestly not even sure where to start. I am only used
> 
>> to the web based interface.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/z4A9> lists the commands and what
> 
> they do.
> 
> 
> 
> Each command has a --help option that gives the usage and options for
> 
> the command.
> 
> 
> 
> The two most useful commands for manipulating non GUI things or things
> 
> for all lists at once are bin/withlist and bin/config_list. Withlist
> 
> can run Python scripts against one or all lists and can invoke an
> 
> interactive Python interpreter with a list instance that can be
> 
> examined and changed interactively, but this requires both Python
> 
> knowledge and some knowledge of Mailman internals.
> 
> 
> 
> bin/config_list is more "friendly". For example, in this case you would
> 
> just create a file containing the single line
> 
> 
> 
> admin_member_chunksize = 100
> 
> 
> 
> or whatever number you need, and run
> 
> 
> 
>   bin/config_list --inputfile /path/to/above/file listname
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender.
> Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/terri%40zone12.com
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May  1 06:05:31 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:05:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all
In-Reply-To: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B464@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201004302105310627c0e682d2@msapiro>

Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote:

>Maybe I can put a message at the top of every mail being send "Do not do a reply all".  How do you do this?


The list admin interface Non-digest options -> msg_header

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May  1 06:13:33 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:13:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List all users on one page
In-Reply-To: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B3BA@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201004302113330752c0e68351@msapiro>

Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote:

>This is the same question I have.  I don't know how to use to script in Windows XP.  I only use to web to get to my mail.  Nothing is saved on my system.


Did you see my initial reply in that thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-April/069315.html>?

If not, see it. If you did see that and you can't do this from the web
admin interface, your Mailman must be 2.1.9 or older. If that is the
case, and as it appears, it is hosted on a server that you don't have
command line access to, then you have no way to change
admin_member_chunksize from it's default value to get all the members
on one page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May  1 06:15:27 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:15:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all
In-Reply-To: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B224@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201004302115270674c0e682fd@msapiro>

Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote:

>Grant suggested:
>
>To directly answer your question (and for the benefit of others searching the archives) I think the best that you will be able to do is to filter messages based on the existence of the standard reply headers ("References:" and "In-Reply-To:") and reject the message(s).
>
>Does anyone know how to do this:
>Where would you setup this filter?  I can't find it in the General Options or Content Filtering.


It's Privacy options... -> Spam filters -> header_filter_rules

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May  1 06:34:16 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:34:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get list of users
In-Reply-To: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B26C@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010043021341609551fd0becb@msapiro>

Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote:
>
>I do not know how to do this from a cmd prompt.  The usage says:
>
>Usage: %(PROGRAM)s [options] hostname listname password
>
>Do I do this from a cmd prompt.  What would be the syntax for my site?


You first need to download and install Python on your Windows XP box.
The windows installer for Python 2.6.5 is at
<http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.6.5/python-2.6.5.msi>

Then, if your list's web admin interface were for example
<http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/listname>, you would at a cmd
prompt type

cd (the folder where you saved mailman-subscribers.py)
python mailman-subscribers.py -c -o output-file.csv www.example.com
listname password

The last line starting with python and ending with password is all one
line, not wrapped as here. output-file.csv is the name of the file to
receive the csv and password is the list's admin password.

You might also need to use the -u option if the admin interface URL is
not of the above form.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rpschwar at knology.net  Sat May  1 22:53:44 2010
From: rpschwar at knology.net (Robert P. Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 15:53:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all
In-Reply-To: <PC195201004302105310627c0e682d2@msapiro>
References: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B464@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com>
	<PC195201004302105310627c0e682d2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <86F53400F3BF42DEBF4632735137FB0B@SchwartzDT>

I tried this an I'm not getting any header.  I tried it for non-digest
options and digest options.

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+rpschwar=knology.net at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+rpschwar=knology.net at python.org] On Behalf Of
Mark Sapiro
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 11:06 PM
To: Schwartz, Robert - IS; Terri Oda; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all

Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote:

>Maybe I can put a message at the top of every mail being send "Do not do a
reply all".  How do you do this?


The list admin interface Non-digest options -> msg_header

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rpschwar%40knology.net

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2846 - Release Date: 04/30/10
13:27:00


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May  1 23:22:37 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 14:22:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all
In-Reply-To: <86F53400F3BF42DEBF4632735137FB0B@SchwartzDT>
Message-ID: <PC19520100501142237084377681f30@msapiro>

Robert P. Schwartz wrote:

>I tried this an I'm not getting any header.  I tried it for non-digest
>options and digest options.


If you put text in msg_header and saved that change and then sent a
post to that list and the post as received from the list didn't
contain the header text, it may be because the post to the list was
multipart or HTML and the header was added as a separate MIME part
which your mail client doesn't display.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9> for more on this.

If the header is not added in any form at all, I cannot explain why. Do
messages from your lists contain the default (or other) msg_footer?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rpschwar at knology.net  Sat May  1 23:35:22 2010
From: rpschwar at knology.net (Robert P. Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 16:35:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get list of users
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010043021341609551fd0becb@msapiro>
References: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B26C@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com>
	<PC1952010043021341609551fd0becb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <510BED2EF4E74FA49630EAADA64AF886@SchwartzDT>

This did exactly what I needed.  Thanks. If I want others to be able to do
this, will they need to download
http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.6.5/python-2.6.5.msi?


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+rpschwar=knology.net at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+rpschwar=knology.net at python.org] On Behalf Of
Mark Sapiro
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 11:34 PM
To: Schwartz, Robert - IS; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] get list of users

Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote:
>
>I do not know how to do this from a cmd prompt.  The usage says:
>
>Usage: %(PROGRAM)s [options] hostname listname password
>
>Do I do this from a cmd prompt.  What would be the syntax for my site?


You first need to download and install Python on your Windows XP box.
The windows installer for Python 2.6.5 is at
<http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.6.5/python-2.6.5.msi>

Then, if your list's web admin interface were for example
<http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/listname>, you would at a cmd
prompt type

cd (the folder where you saved mailman-subscribers.py)
python mailman-subscribers.py -c -o output-file.csv www.example.com
listname password

The last line starting with python and ending with password is all one
line, not wrapped as here. output-file.csv is the name of the file to
receive the csv and password is the list's admin password.

You might also need to use the -u option if the admin interface URL is
not of the above form.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rpschwar%40knology.net

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2846 - Release Date: 04/30/10
13:27:00


From Robert.Schwartz at itt.com  Sat May  1 23:27:13 2010
From: Robert.Schwartz at itt.com (Schwartz, Robert - IS)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 16:27:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100501142237084377681f30@msapiro>
References: <86F53400F3BF42DEBF4632735137FB0B@SchwartzDT>
	<PC19520100501142237084377681f30@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B892@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com>

That seems to be the issue.  When I looked at the email from my work email I saw the header text that was added, but my message was added as an attachment.  I like the header text to be added and the message not to appear as an attachment.  If there is no way to do this, I'll just live with it.

Robert P. Schwartz
CAS, Inc.
A wholly owned subsidiary of ITT Corporation
100 Quality Circle
Huntsville, AL 35806

Phone: 256.922.4203
Fax:  256.922.4243

E-mail:  robert.schwartz at itt.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 4:23 PM
To: rpschwar at knology.net; Schwartz, Robert - IS; 'Terri Oda'; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all

Robert P. Schwartz wrote:

>I tried this an I'm not getting any header.  I tried it for non-digest
>options and digest options.


If you put text in msg_header and saved that change and then sent a
post to that list and the post as received from the list didn't
contain the header text, it may be because the post to the list was
multipart or HTML and the header was added as a separate MIME part
which your mail client doesn't display.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9> for more on this.

If the header is not added in any form at all, I cannot explain why. Do
messages from your lists contain the default (or other) msg_footer?

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender.
Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May  1 23:54:03 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 14:54:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all
In-Reply-To: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B892@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com>
References: <86F53400F3BF42DEBF4632735137FB0B@SchwartzDT>
	<PC19520100501142237084377681f30@msapiro>
	<9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B892@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com>
Message-ID: <4BDCA2FB.1010404@msapiro.net>

On 5/1/2010 2:27 PM, Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote:
> That seems to be the issue.  When I looked at the email from my work
> email I saw the header text that was added, but my message was added
> as an attachment.  I like the header text to be added and the message
> not to appear as an attachment.  If there is no way to do this, I'll
> just live with it.


As it says in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9> (option 2), if
the incoming post is plain text only or if the list's content filtering
is set to remove all non-plain text parts, the msg_header text will be
prepended to the plain text message body. Otherwise the msg_header text
will be added as a separate MIME part (attachment).

I may seem obtuse about this, but it would help me to help you if you
explained in terms of simple scenarios what it is you want.

For example, user x sends a post to list y. user z receives the post
from the list.

a) I want user z to only be able to reply to user x and otherwise to be
required to send a new, original, non-reply message to the list, or
b) I want user z to be able to reply to user x only or to the list only,
but not to both, or
c) I want user z to be able to reply only to the list and not directly
to user x at all.

Those are only examples, but I would like to know what you would like to
have happen.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Sun May  2 01:47:45 2010
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 18:47:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Snow Leoparrd (MacOS X 10.6) CLIENT installation
 steps for Mailman (CORRECTED)
Message-ID: <C80227D1.91A21%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

Sorry to take up list space resending this but I caught an error in the
Apache configuration section of this (some additional lines needed in Step
4b due to increased security in Apache2 vs. original Apache).

=======

In September 2004, I posted on this topic with instructions for installing
mailman on the client version of MacOS X 10.3 (Panther). Later, I updated it
for OS X 10.4 (Tiger) as well as notes (but not full instructions) for OS X
10.5 (Leopard). Just recently, I did a test installation on my 10.6 (Snow
Leopard) laptop in anticipation of a new desktop to become my new server
later this year. In all cases, these were the CLIENT version of Mac OS X
(Mac OS X Server comes with a bastardized version of Mailman).

So here, once again for purposes of getting it in the archives, are my
instructions for installing mailman on MacOS X 10.6.x. With this version,
I've made some changes to bring the mailman home directory in line with
Mailman "standards" (i.e. using /usr/local/mailman instead of
/Applications/mailman), improved the system startup procedure, and some
other miscellaneous cleanup.

=========

Snow Leopard (MacOS X 10.6) installation steps for Mailman

This document is based on my experience installing Mailman 2.1.4 on MacOS X
10.3 (Panther) and subsequently upgrading to Tiger (Mac OS X 10.4) and to
mailman 2.1.6 and now to Snow Leopard (Mac OS X 10.6) with mailman 2.1.13.
It is largely based on Kathleen Webb's document on installing Mailman and
Sendmail on MacOS X 10.2 (Jaguar)
(<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2002-October/022944.html>)
which contains some information on tools that can be useful that will not be
repeated here.

This guide assumes that you have Postfix (which comes with Snow Leopard)
already configured and operating, that you have the built-in web server
running (if not, enable it by going to the Sharing pane of System
Preferences and turning on Web Sharing), and that you are familiar with the
Unix shell and basic text editing from the shell (vi or emacs). It is
intended to help you get Mailman installed. It does not deal with actually
using Mailman as there are plenty of other sources of help for that.

This is based on a new install on a Snow Leopard system that has never had
Mailman on it before. Questions are best asked through the mailman-users
mailing list.

========================================
Step 1) Collect all the things you need.

a) You need to download and decompress the Mailman software. (The
installation instructions are in step 3.) Download the software from:
    http://www.list.org/
Download the latest 2.1.x.tgz which is a gzip compressed tar file (.tgz).
Just leave it for now and we'll expand it later.

b) You need to be an administrator of your computer. If you do not have
administrator privileges, you will not be able to do this.

c) Python comes pre-installed on your computer. It is already
functioning and ready for use by Mailman. (To verify you have Python, open
the Terminal application. at the  % prompt, type:
    sudo Python -V
and then hit the enter/return key. You'll be prompted for your password.
When you enter it, the terminal will respond with the Python version.

d) Apache web server software comes pre-installed on your computer and has
already been configured and is running.

e) Postfix is already installed on your computer but is not running by
default. You will need to get Postfix configured and started but how to do
that is beyond the scope of this document. An excellent way of getting
Postfix up and running, along with a POP and IMAP server, is with MailServe
Snow <http://www.cutedgesystems.com/software/MailServeSnow/>. Note that
MailServe Snow is not free - as all the underlying software is freely
available, you're paying for the configuration and installation tool, not
the underlying software.

f) You may need to know how to get into hidden subdirectories. In the
Finder, use the Go menu and choose Go to Folder. Type in the path to the
hidden folder you need to open.

g) You may need to know how to make a new user. You use the System
Preferences application [from the Apple menu]. Use the Accounts panel in the
System section.

h) You need to install the Developer Tools that came with your Snow Leopard
disks or several of the steps won't work.

========================================

>From this point on, we will do everything in Terminal and as root. So open
Terminal and then become root by typing 'sudo su'. You will be prompted for
your password and then get a # as a prompt.

Step 2) Verify the user and group needed to run Mailman.

All versions of OS X since at least Panther have come with the needed users
and groups already created. We will be using _mailman for mailman and _www
for the webserver.

To verify they're there, type 'grep _mailman /etc/group' and 'grep _mailman
/etc/passwd. Both should return one line starting with _mailman:*:78:. If
they do, they exist. You can repeat that with _www and the number you see
should be 70.
 
Assuming all of the above is there, we're good to go.

========================================
Step 3) Create a folder for mailman in the finder.

a) You can choose where to create the folder. I chose to follow the Mailman
"standard" and put it in /usr/local. These instructions assume that is where
you create the new folder. To create the folder, type:
    mkdir -p /usr/local/mailman
Then "change directory" to it:
    cd /usr/local/mailman

b) Copy the downloaded compressed tar file (e.g. mailman-2.1.13.tgz) to the
directory we just created and then uncompress and untar it. The command
below assumes that compressed tar file was downloaded into your Downloads
folder.
    cp ~/Downloads/mailman-2.1.13.tgz . (yes, that's a space and a dot on
the end of the command)
    tar xvzf mailman-2.1.13.tgz

c) Set the proper ownership and permissions on the mailman directory:
    chown _mailman:_mailman /usr/local/mailman
    chmod a+rw,g+ws /usr/local/mailman

d) Change directory in to the Mailman source directory. Assuming the you are
using the mailman-2.1.13 version, type:
    cd /usr/local/mailman/mailman-2.1.13

e) Build Mailman:
    ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/mailman --with-cgi-gid=_www
--with-mail-gid=_mailman

f) A whole bunch of lines of code will scroll through the Terminal window.
When it finishes, in the Terminal window, type:
    make install
    cd /usr/local/mailman
    sudo bin/check_perms -f
    sudo bin/check_perms -f

(Repeat the check_perms until no errors are reported. If you end up with
problems later, this whole step is probably where the problem will come
from. Permissions are important to Mailman.)

g) Set the Mailman site password:
    /usr/local/mailman/bin/mmsitepass xxxx

[Replace xxxx with the password you want to use as the master password to
the mailman application.]


========================================
Step 4) Set up your web server to serve the Mailman web pages for
subscribing and administrating the mailing list.

a) Change directory to the apache2 configuration directory (Apache2 is the
webserver):
    cd /etc/apache2/

b) Edit httpd.conf with your favorite Terminal text editor such as vi or
emacs). For instance, for vi, type:
    vi httpd.conf

 Add these lines to the file:

        ScriptAlias     /mailman/       /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
        Alias /pipermail/       /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin">
        order allow,deny
        allow from all
</Directory>
<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public">
        order allow,deny
        allow from all
</Directory>
<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public">
Options FollowSymLinks
</Directory>

c) Save the file and exit the editor.

d) Copy the images used for the mailman web pages to where Apache expects
them. In Terminal:
    cp /usr/local/mailman/icons/* /usr/share/httpd/icons

e) Next we need to add the cron jobs that mailman needs to any existing root
cron jobs. If there are no existing root cron jobs, you can just do:
    crontab /usr/local/mailman/cron/crontab.in

However, if there are existing root cron jobs, then we need to append to it.
One way way to do that is:
    crontab ?l | cat - /usr/local/mailman/crontab.in | crontab ?
(note that this outputs the existing cron jobs, concatenated the mailman
jobs to it, and the saves it as a new crontab. Make sure you have the
command right or you risk losing your old jobs. You might want to backup the
old jobs first with 'crontab -l > crontab.backup').
You can then edit the crontab with 'crontab -e'. You may want to comment out
the gate news to mail job if you aren't doing that.



========================================
Step 5) Configure Postfix to support a separate Mailman alias file.

a) Edit your Postix configuration file (possibly /etc/postfix/main.cf or if
you used MailServe Snow as I mentioned above, then it's
/usr/local/cutedge/postfix/etc/main.cf - you can also do this through the
MailServe Snow application and add this as a custom Postfix setting) and
add:
alias_maps=hash:/etc/postfix/aliases,
 hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

b) Reload postfix with:
    postfix reload

========================================
Step 6) Configure Mailman

a) We need to let Mailman know we're using Postfix. Using you favorite means
of text editing, open /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py and add below
the line that says "# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.":
     MTA = "Postfix"

========================================
Step 7) Create your site-wide mailing list (mailman).

Read the instructions in INSTALL in your mailman source directory
(/Applications/Mailman/Mailman-2.1.13).

In short, in the Terminal application, type:
    cd /usr/local/mailman
    bin/newlist mailman
    bin/config_list -i data/sitelist.cfg mailman

========================================
Step 8) Configure your system to start Mailman when it is booted. This has
been a little tricky since Leopard came out so rather than have launchd
start Mailman directly, we will have it run a script we put in root's home
directory that does it a way I've found more reliable (by waiting one second
after issuing the command to start mailman before it exits):
 
a) In Terminal, change directory to /var/root/:
     cd /var/root

b) Using your favorite text editor (vi, emacs, or whatever), create the file
start_mailman.sh. For instance, with vi, type:
    vi mailman_start.sh
And enter the lines:
    #!/bin/sh
    /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start
    sleep 1
Save and exit.

c) Change permissions to make it executable:
    chmod 755 start_mailman.sh

d) Create the Mailman startup preference file:
     cd /Library/LaunchDaemons
     touch mailman.plist

c) Using your favorite method of text editing, add the following content to
mailman.plist:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
        <key>Disabled</key>
        <false/>
        <key>Label</key>
        <string>mailman</string>
        <key>OnDemand</key>
        <true/>
        <key>ProgramArguments</key>
        <array>
                <string>/var/root/start_mailman.sh</string>
        </array>
        <key>ServiceIPC</key>
        <false/>
        <key>RunAtLoad</key>
        <true/>
</dict>
</plist>

d) Verify the file ownership and permissions:
     ls -l
   You should see one of the lines saying something like:
     -rw-r--r--  5 root   wheel   170 12 May 11:21 mailman.plist

e) If the permissions (rw-r--r--) are not correct, type:
     chmod 644 mailman.plist

f) If the owner (root) or group (wheel) is not correct, type:
     chown root:wheel mailman.plist

g) Go into launchctl and enable Mailman. This should also cause it to start
immediately.
    launchctl
    load -w mailman.plist
(the -w is very important. The Disabled attribute in the .plist is no longer
used. Instead, Disabled status for all launchd plists is stored in
/var/db/laubchd.db/com.apple.launchd/overrides.plist and is set/unset by the
-w on the launchctl load/unload commands. Yes, it does seems needlessly
complicated).

Mailman should have started. To verify, open Terminal and type:
    ps -efw | grep python
You should see a bunch of lines like this:
   78  1099     1   0   0:00.01 ??         0:00.01 /usr/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start
   78  1101  1099   0   0:08.38 ??         0:18.67 /usr/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
   78  1102  1099   0   0:07.29 ??         0:17.57 /usr/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
   78  1103  1099   0   0:08.46 ??         0:18.83 /usr/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
   78  1104  1099   0   0:08.14 ??         0:18.16 /usr/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
   78  1105  1099   0   0:07.92 ??         0:17.73 /usr/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
   78  1107  1099   0   0:07.72 ??         0:18.54 /usr/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
   78  1108  1099   0   0:07.80 ??         0:17.66 /usr/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
   78  1109  1099   0   0:00.07 ??         0:00.19 /usr/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
    0 15583 15537   0   0:00.00 ttys000    0:00.00 grep pyth

(The numbers will vary. The important thing is that you see the qrunner
processes.)

========================================
Step 9) Enjoy!

At this point, mailman should be ready to use. Read the documentation in
your source directory for instructions on setting up your mailing lists.


-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/


------------------------------------------------------
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From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Sun May  2 21:41:26 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 15:41:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
Message-ID: <4BDDD566.9050901@libertytrek.org>

Ok, I got sidetracked a long time ago, and because this isn't pressing,
it went to a back-burner, but I'm ready to do this now. My apologies in
advance if I'm being overly cautious, but I've avoided a lot of
problems, some major, by asking a lot of questions before doing
something like this that I've never done before.

Goal is simple: change the URL/hostname for my lists from their current
'myhost.example.com' to 'lists.example.com'.

If it matters, these lists are *not* publicly accessible, and they are
*not* archived.

After re-reading the two FAQs regarding this, I have a few things I'm
not certain of, so will pose the questions one at a time, and will
include my current Defaults.py and my new mm_cfg.py with the new
settings/changes commented at the bottom of each message.

The first question I have is about POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS. In the
FAQs about changing hostnames, this setting is not mentioned.

Now, this server only hosts lists for one domain: example.com.

So - should I also change that setting to lists.example.com too (per
below)? Or, since I am not running lists for more than one domain, can
my setup be simplified somehow? Or does it even come into play?

Thanks,

Charles

******************* My current and proposed new settings:

Defaults.py currently contains

> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'myhost.example.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'myhost.example.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

And my current/recently edited mm_cfg.py - the commented settings/lines
below are the changes I've added, in preparation for the change, and
will just comment/uncomment the relevant ones to 'flip the switch':

> ##################################################
> # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
> MTA = 'Postfix'
> #DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
> #DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.com'
> #add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> #VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
> #POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.example.com']
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['myhost.example.com']
> ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Sun May  2 22:21:33 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 16:21:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names, revisited... DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
Message-ID: <4BDDDECD.8050401@libertytrek.org>

The second question I have is about the DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST setting...

Currently, people send to my lists using listname at example.com and
everything is working fine. But, while prepping for this change I found
this commented section from someone's mm_cfg.py (these comments aren't
in mine for some reason):

# For example, if people visit your Mailman system with
# "http://www.dom.ain/mailman" then your url fqdn is "www.dom.ain",
# and if people send mail to your system via "yourlist at dom.ain" then
# your email fqdn is "dom.ain".  DEFAULT_URL_HOST controls the former,
# and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST controls the latter.

According to this, my DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST should just be 'example.com',
but it isn't, it is myhost.example.com - so why is mine working ok?

Thanks,

Charles

******************* My current and proposed new settings:

Defaults.py currently contains

> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'myhost.example.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'myhost.example.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

And my current/recently edited mm_cfg.py - the commented settings/lines
below are the changes I've added, in preparation for the change, and
will just comment/uncomment the relevant ones to 'flip the switch':

> ##################################################
> # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
> MTA = 'Postfix'
> #DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
> #DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.com'
> #add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> #VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
> #POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.example.com']
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['myhost.example.com']
> ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May  2 22:45:51 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 13:45:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all
In-Reply-To: <49780.1272827458@knology.net>
References: <49780.1272827458@knology.net>
Message-ID: <4BDDE47F.1080309@msapiro.net>

On 5/2/2010 12:10 PM, rpschwar at knology.net wrote:
> 
> This is what I'm trying to do. User x sends a post to listy. User z
> receives the post from the list.
> 
> I want user Z only to be able to reply to user x and otherwise to be
> required to send a new, origional, not-preply message to the list.


Thanks for the explanation. The short answer is you can't remove the
list posting address from all the headers. Normally it will be in the
To: header or Cc: header and 'reply-all' will include the list. If the
personalization options are available to you, you can set the list(s) to
Full Personalization which will replace the To: header with one that is
To: the recipient of the message, but this will not help because Mailman
will in this case add a Cc: to the list posting address in order to
facilitate including the list in replies.

Mailman works this way because it is designed mainly for discussion
lists where people carry out a multi-way conversation on the list.

Thus, the only thing you can do is as has been suggested, apply
header_filter_rules to not accept posts that contain In-Reply-To: and/or
References: headers, or use max_num_recipients = 2 to hold all posts
with more than one recipient.

To this latter suggestion, you replied:

> That didn't work because the first message sent will go to yourself
> and the mailing list which will be blocked. If you tell it not to send
> it to yourself, the first message will send. If you try to reply to all
> to this message it will also be sent because the reply to will only have
> the member list.


This reply raises other questions. The first sentence seems to indicate
you want to send to the list with Cc: to yourself, and yes, such a post
would be held as it would have 2 recipients. However, the last sentence
indicates you are concerned about people replying-all to their own
posts. Is this a real concern, or is it just something you encountered
in testing with replying to your own post? I.e., normally, a reply-all
would include the list and the poster and would be held for 2
recipients. Only in the case where you are replying-all to your own post
and not editing the recipients, would the post have only one recipient.

Of course with a recipient limit, the user could still do a reply-all
and then remove all but the list address from the addressees before
sending, and this reply would go to the list if you were only checking
the number of recipients, so it seems if you want to block all
non-original messages, header_filter_rules would be the way to go.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May  2 23:03:30 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 14:03:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
In-Reply-To: <4BDDDECD.8050401@libertytrek.org>
References: <4BDDDECD.8050401@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <4BDDE8A2.9030005@msapiro.net>

On 5/2/2010 1:21 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> The second question I have is about the DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST setting...
> 
> Currently, people send to my lists using listname at example.com and
> everything is working fine. But, while prepping for this change I found
> this commented section from someone's mm_cfg.py (these comments aren't
> in mine for some reason):
> 
> # For example, if people visit your Mailman system with
> # "http://www.dom.ain/mailman" then your url fqdn is "www.dom.ain",
> # and if people send mail to your system via "yourlist at dom.ain" then
> # your email fqdn is "dom.ain".  DEFAULT_URL_HOST controls the former,
> # and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST controls the latter.


The comments are in some downstream package. They aren't in the default
GNU Mailman distribution.


> According to this, my DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST should just be 'example.com',
> but it isn't, it is myhost.example.com - so why is mine working ok?


If you go to the list's listinfo page, what does it say the list posting
address is? If it says listname at example.com, then either you had
different settings when you created the list, or you changed the list's
host_name attribute on the General Options admin page from
myhost.example.com to example.com.

On the other hand, if the listinfo page says listname at myhost.example.com
then all the email addresses Mailman generates for this list are
@myhost.example.com. Now they probably work because

>> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['myhost.example.com']

says generate virtual alias maps for Postfix for any list that has
host_name myhost.example.com, so if Postfix is configured to use
Mailman's data/virtual-mailman, mail sent to list addresses
@myhost.example.com will be properly delivered.

Note that all DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST does is set the default host_name
attribute for new lists. Once a list is created, it has no effect.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Sun May  2 22:46:52 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 16:46:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names, revisited... final steps...
Message-ID: <4BDDE4BC.1090600@libertytrek.org>

Lastly...

Is there any special order for making these changes, or just:

1. Make the changes to mm_cfg.py per below

2. Restart mailman

3. Run $prefix/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url to fix all existing lists

4. Restart mailman

5. Done...?

Thanks again,

Charles

******************* My current and proposed new settings:

Defaults.py currently contains

> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'myhost.example.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'myhost.example.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

And my current/recently edited mm_cfg.py - the commented settings/lines
below are the changes I've added, in preparation for the change, and
will just comment/uncomment the relevant ones to 'flip the switch':

> ##################################################
> # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
> MTA = 'Postfix'
> #DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
> #DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.com'
> #add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> #VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
> #POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.example.com']
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['myhost.example.com']
> ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes
-- 

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May  2 23:22:12 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 14:22:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <4BDDD566.9050901@libertytrek.org>
References: <4BDDD566.9050901@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <4BDDED04.4010603@msapiro.net>

On 5/2/2010 12:41 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> 
> The first question I have is about POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS. In the
> FAQs about changing hostnames, this setting is not mentioned.
> 
> Now, this server only hosts lists for one domain: example.com.
> 
> So - should I also change that setting to lists.example.com too (per
> below)? Or, since I am not running lists for more than one domain, can
> my setup be simplified somehow? Or does it even come into play?


Since the email domain for all your lists is (or should be) example.com,
anything other than example .com in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS has no
effect. I.e.

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['myhost.example.com']

would only do anything for a list whose host_name (email domain) is
myhost.example.com, and changing it to

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.example.com']

would only do anything for a list whose host_name (email domain) is
lists.example.com.
> Defaults.py currently contains
> 
>> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'myhost.example.com'
>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'myhost.example.com'

probably wrong.


>> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
>
> And my current/recently edited mm_cfg.py - the commented settings/lines
> below are the changes I've added, in preparation for the change, and
> will just comment/uncomment the relevant ones to 'flip the switch':
> 
>> ##################################################
>> # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
>> MTA = 'Postfix'
>> #DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
>> #DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.com'
>> #add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>> #VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()

The order of the above two is wrong. "VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()" clears the
VIRTOUAL_HOSTS dictionary. You don't want it after your add_virtualhost
as you will end up with nothing. You first want

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()

to remove any incorrect or irrelevant entry from Defaults.py. This is
followed by

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

to add the newly defined values.


>> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
>> #POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.example.com']
>> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['myhost.example.com']
>> ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes


If your list mail goes to ... at example.com and example.com is a local
domain in Postfix (i.e. in mydestinations), you don't want
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS at all and you don't want any references
to Mailman's virtual-mailman in virtual_alias_maps in Postfix.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May  2 23:36:55 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 14:36:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names, revisited... final steps...
In-Reply-To: <4BDDE4BC.1090600@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952010050214365502187d84c251@msapiro>

Tanstaafl wrote:
>
>Is there any special order for making these changes, or just:
>
>1. Make the changes to mm_cfg.py per below
>
>2. Restart mailman
>
>3. Run $prefix/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url to fix all existing lists
>
>4. Restart mailman
>
>5. Done...?


It probably isn't necessary to restart Mailman at all for these
changes. I would skip the step 2 restart and just to be safe, do the
one after fix_url. Or to be really safe, stop Mailman before step 1
and start Mailman at step 4

What about web server changes for the lists.example.com vs.
myhost.example.com change (there may not be any), and DNS for the
lists.example.com domain?


Note that if 'example.com' is a virtual domain in Postfix, you will need

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.com']

and in that case, I recommend step 0 stop Postfix, Step 3.5 Run
$prefix/bin/genaliases, step 4.5 start Postfix.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Sun May  2 23:47:28 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 17:47:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
In-Reply-To: <4BDDE8A2.9030005@msapiro.net>
References: <4BDDDECD.8050401@libertytrek.org> <4BDDE8A2.9030005@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4BDDF2F0.6040506@libertytrek.org>

On 2010-05-02 5:03 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If you go to the list's listinfo page, what does it say the list posting
> address is? If it says listname at example.com, then either you had
> different settings when you created the list, or you changed the list's
> host_name attribute on the General Options admin page from
> myhost.example.com to example.com.

The list posting address is set to:

listname at myhost.example.com

The host name (in the web options interface) is set to:

myhost.example.com

> On the other hand, if the listinfo page says listname at myhost.example.com
> then all the email addresses Mailman generates for this list are
> @myhost.example.com. Now they probably work because
> 
>>> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['myhost.example.com']
> 
> says generate virtual alias maps for Postfix for any list that has
> host_name myhost.example.com, so if Postfix is configured to use
> Mailman's data/virtual-mailman, mail sent to list addresses
> @myhost.example.com will be properly delivered.
> 
> Note that all DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST does is set the default host_name
> attribute for new lists. Once a list is created, it has no effect.

Ok... so, apparently this is slightly broken, but working...?

I would strongly prefer to fix this properly.

Thanks for your help Mark, your courtesy and expertise never cease to
amaze...

-- 

Charles

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Sun May  2 23:49:33 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 17:49:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <4BDDED04.4010603@msapiro.net>
References: <4BDDD566.9050901@libertytrek.org> <4BDDED04.4010603@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4BDDF36D.9010205@libertytrek.org>

On 2010-05-02 5:22 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 5/2/2010 12:41 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
>> The first question I have is about POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS. In the
>> FAQs about changing hostnames, this setting is not mentioned.
>>
>> Now, this server only hosts lists for one domain: example.com.
>>
>> So - should I also change that setting to lists.example.com too (per
>> below)? Or, since I am not running lists for more than one domain, can
>> my setup be simplified somehow? Or does it even come into play?

> Since the email domain for all your lists is (or should be) example.com,
> anything other than example .com in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS has no
> effect. I.e.

Ok, so, after your previous, I'm confused as to what to do to fix this...

>> Defaults.py currently contains
>>
>>> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'myhost.example.com'
>>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'myhost.example.com'

> probably wrong.

Yeah, I kind of figured that, so now I just need to know how to fix it
without breaking anything...

> The order of the above two is wrong. "VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()" clears the
> VIRTOUAL_HOSTS dictionary. You don't want it after your add_virtualhost
> as you will end up with nothing. You first want
> 
> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> 
> to remove any incorrect or irrelevant entry from Defaults.py. This is
> followed by
> 
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> 
> to add the newly defined values.

Thanks, fixed...

>>> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
>>> #POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.example.com']
>>> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['myhost.example.com']
>>> ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes

> If your list mail goes to ... at example.com and example.com is a local
> domain in Postfix (i.e. in mydestinations), you don't want
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS at all and you don't want any references
> to Mailman's virtual-mailman in virtual_alias_maps in Postfix.

It's not local, I'm using virtual_mailbox_domains/maps... I do host
email for two other domains, just no lists (and no need for them)...

So, now my new mm_cfg.py is:

> ##################################################
> # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
> MTA = 'Postfix'
> #DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
> #DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.com'
> #VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> #add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
> #POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.example.com']
> #POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['myhost.example.com']
> ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes

?

Or, should I make POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.com']

-- 

Charles

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Sun May  2 23:50:14 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 00:50:14 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all
In-Reply-To: <4BDDE47F.1080309@msapiro.net>
References: <49780.1272827458@knology.net> <4BDDE47F.1080309@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1005030049311.1033@data.home>

Hi,

Frankly, I think the best approach would be just to moderate the list.  If 
people realise that follow-ups aren't going to get posted, they'll stop 
sending them.

Geoff.


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Mon May  3 01:01:17 2010
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 18:01:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1005030049311.1033@data.home>
References: <49780.1272827458@knology.net> <4BDDE47F.1080309@msapiro.net>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1005030049311.1033@data.home>
Message-ID: <4BDE043D.9030200@riverviewtech.net>

Geoff Shang wrote:
> Frankly, I think the best approach would be just to moderate the list.  
> If people realise that follow-ups aren't going to get posted, they'll 
> stop sending them.

*chuckle*

 From my experience, you over estimate some of the user base that I have 
had the pleasure of supporting.  ;-)



Grant. . . .

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May  3 01:02:14 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 16:02:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <4BDDF36D.9010205@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201005021602140078d3552e1c@msapiro>

Tanstaafl wrote:

>On 2010-05-02 5:22 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> If your list mail goes to ... at example.com and example.com is a local
>> domain in Postfix (i.e. in mydestinations), you don't want
>> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS at all and you don't want any references
>> to Mailman's virtual-mailman in virtual_alias_maps in Postfix.
>
>It's not local, I'm using virtual_mailbox_domains/maps... I do host
>email for two other domains, just no lists (and no need for them)...


This gets complicated. My question at this point is how is mail to
listname at example.com getting to Mailman. Any virtual mappings in
Mailman's virtual-mailman will be for the listname at myhost.example.com,
etc. addresses, so Postfix can't be relying on that for delivery. So
if example.com is not a local domain, how is mail to that domain
getting to Postfix's local delivery in order that Mailman's pipe
aliases are effective. Are transport maps involved for this domain?

I probably need to see "postconf -n" and to understand whether there
are only list addresses @example.com or if there are non-list virtual
mailbox users @example.com too.

Also, there are mailman generated addresses such as list-bounces, and
these are currently all generated @myhost.example.com, so how is that
mail delivered?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rpschwar at knology.net  Mon May  3 02:35:11 2010
From: rpschwar at knology.net (rpschwar at knology.net)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 20:35:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ****SPAM**** Re:  Block reply to all
Message-ID: <1967.1272846911@knology.net>

Let me give further explanation of why I need this.  The site I support is a community band.  When there is an email set to 
everyone from the director about something, we do not want each person to reply to all.  They should only be replying back 
to the person who sent the email (the director).  That is why we want to limit the reply to all.

Robert
On Sun 02/05/10  7:01 PM , Grant Taylor gtaylor at riverviewtech.net sent:
> Geoff Shang wrote:
> > Frankly, I think the best approach would be just to
> moderate the list.  > If people realise that follow-ups aren't going to
> get posted, they'll > stop sending them.
> 
> *chuckle*
> 
> From my experience, you over estimate some of the user base that I have
> had the pleasure of supporting.  ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Grant. . . .
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mail
> man-Users at python.orghttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-usersMailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3Security 
Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rpschwar%4
> 0knology.net
> 
> 



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May  3 05:07:44 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 20:07:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ****SPAM**** Re:  Block reply to all
In-Reply-To: <1967.1272846911@knology.net>
Message-ID: <PC19520100502200744068758cd24db@msapiro>

rpschwar at knology.net wrote:

>Let me give further explanation of why I need this.  The site I support is a community band.  When there is an email set to 
>everyone from the director about something, we do not want each person to reply to all.  They should only be replying back 
>to the person who sent the email (the director).  That is why we want to limit the reply to all.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/3YA9> on how to set up this kind
of list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From shop at justbrits.com  Mon May  3 04:46:52 2010
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 21:46:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ****SPAM**** Re:  Block reply to all
In-Reply-To: <1967.1272846911@knology.net>
References: <1967.1272846911@knology.net>
Message-ID: <4BDE391C.7020508@justbrits.com>

I am sure [most Mark -:)] know that I AM a huge fan & supporter
of MM even tho I am stuck with the cPanel version.

I have been reading all the mails on this subject with a bunch of
questions swirling around my teeny brain -:) !!

<< Let me give further explanation of why I need this. The site I 
support is a community band. When there is an email set to everyone from 
the director about something, we do not want each person to reply to 
all. They should only be replying back to the person who sent the email 
(the director). That is why we want to limit the reply to all. >>

So my only remaining question is "Why a MM List at all. ?" ??

Simply have the Director set-up a 'Group' in his eMail Client,
SEND to the 'Group' and then there would ONLY be ONE
person anyone in the 'Group' could "Reply-to:" [or even
"Reply-all:"  which would only yield the Director] ?!?!?

Even an 'Announcement Only' type List does NOT make sense
to me ?!?!?!

Ed
Please visit MY site at:
www.justbrits.com


From blacksun at ix.gotdns.org  Sun May  2 08:15:20 2010
From: blacksun at ix.gotdns.org (Pat Plummer)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 00:15:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nonexistent user receiving a monthly password
	reminder
Message-ID: <4B6AC643-2873-40FD-8E1D-1CECF570E4FE@ix.gotdns.org>

I have an interesting problem. I have been reading google hits and mailman archives for the last several hours and have not been able to find anything that addresses the above problem.

Here's the deal:

A few months ago, I had to restore my server from back up due to catastrophic drive failure. Since then I have had a single user that was deleted over 3 years ago that has begun to get monthly password reminders for a list she no longer belongs to. Her name does not show up in any list member lists/dumps and the problem does not respond to the scripts for addresses that have unusual or upper case characters, etc etc. I have tried to look through the script that handles this (mailpasswds), but cannot figure out where this script gets its user info. She does not receive the list traffic that this active list has -- only the reminders.

I have also tried adding her and re-deleting her, logging into the page that is sent in email (the page comes up in the browser, but does not respond to logins/auth failed error), and have tried to look through config files that appear to be likely suspects, but cannot find her email address anywhere.

If someone could at least point me in the right direction or suggest relevant sections in the fine manual that might apply, I'd be grateful. I rather not turn off monthly reminders for everyone else if possible.

Thanks in advance!

Pat

--
Pat Plummer
blacksun at ix dot gotdns dot org

From nico_se at hotmail.fr  Sun May  2 13:20:14 2010
From: nico_se at hotmail.fr (Nicolas Seichepine)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 13:20:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limitations on the subscriptions
Message-ID: <BAY117-W29DC62A8B0C5AE7AC93A6DF8F10@phx.gbl>


Hello,

I take care of a server with mailman 2.1.5 and numerous lists, but I administer only a small part of them.

Besides, my SMTP relay allows me to send e-mails only on a particular domain (university addresses).

The problem is that no matter how many times I repeat to administrators and users to use only these addresses, subscriptions are regularly made with other addresses, which are rejected and generate a lot of bounces.

I would like to know if there is a mean to verify automatically during the subscription process if the address is something like xxx at domain.ext...

Thank you very much,

Nicolas 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Consultez vos emails Orange, Gmail, Yahoo!, Free ... directement depuis HOTMAIL !
http://www.windowslive.fr/hotmail/agregation/

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May  3 05:31:53 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 20:31:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nonexistent user receiving a monthly
	passwordreminder
In-Reply-To: <4B6AC643-2873-40FD-8E1D-1CECF570E4FE@ix.gotdns.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201005022031530140ce37b481@msapiro>

Pat Plummer wrote:
>
>A few months ago, I had to restore my server from back up due to catastrophic drive failure. Since then I have had a single user that was deleted over 3 years ago that has begun to get monthly password reminders for a list she no longer belongs to. Her name does not show up in any list member lists/dumps and the problem does not respond to the scripts for addresses that have unusual or upper case characters, etc etc. I have tried to look through the script that handles this (mailpasswds), but cannot figure out where this script gets its user info. She does not receive the list traffic that this active list has -- only the reminders.


It gets its information from the config.pck files of the the various
lists.


>I have also tried adding her and re-deleting her, logging into the page that is sent in email (the page comes up in the browser, but does not respond to logins/auth failed error), and have tried to look through config files that appear to be likely suspects, but cannot find her email address anywhere.
>
>If someone could at least point me in the right direction or suggest relevant sections in the fine manual that might apply, I'd be grateful. I rather not turn off monthly reminders for everyone else if possible.


Turning off reminders for the current list won't solve the problem
because the reminders are coming from some other test/back-up/whatever
Mailman instance that is running cron/mailpasswds against some old
data.

Look at all the Received: headers in the reminder mail. They should
tell you from what server the reminder originated. If it is not the
current server, find it and remove Mailman's crontab. If it is the
current server do

locate mailpasswds

or

find / -name mailpasswds

to find the 'other' Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May  3 05:46:06 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 20:46:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limitations on the subscriptions
In-Reply-To: <BAY117-W29DC62A8B0C5AE7AC93A6DF8F10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1952010050220460602501507cfc0@msapiro>

Nicolas Seichepine wrote:
>
>The problem is that no matter how many times I repeat to administrators and users to use only these addresses, subscriptions are regularly made with other addresses, which are rejected and generate a lot of bounces.
>
>I would like to know if there is a mean to verify automatically during the subscription process if the address is something like xxx at domain.ext...


You should be able to use the ban_list for this (Privacy options... ->
Subscription rules -> ban_list). The operation of the ban_list has
been improved somewhat since 2.1.5, e.g. In 2.1.5 you couldn't
subscribe a banned address, but you could change your address to a
banned address, but it should work for your purpose.

A regexp like:

^.+@(?!domain\.ext$)

will ban every address that is not @domain.ext.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon May  3 06:30:41 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 13:30:41 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all
In-Reply-To: <1967.1272846911@knology.net>
References: <1967.1272846911@knology.net>
Message-ID: <87aash7gjy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

rpschwar at knology.net writes:

 > Let me give further explanation of why I need this.  The site I
 > support is a community band.  When there is an email set to
 > everyone from the director about something, we do not want each
 > person to reply to all.  They should only be replying back to the
 > person who sent the email (the director).  That is why we want to
 > limit the reply to all.

The obvious solution is to have a dedicated announce list for the
director's use for such announcements.  Set the reply-to to the
director's preferred mail address for receiving such responses.  Set
member post to no.  Set the allowed posters to the director's
addresses, plus the addresses of any other "responsible parties" who
should be allowed to post (vice director, listmaster relaying a phone
message from the director, etc).  Finally, set a privacy rule to
discard (possibly reject) unauthorized posts.  There's more info in
the FAQ, a search for "announcement list" should pull it up.  Also,
"clone list" (since you'll want a convenient way to copy the
membership list).

Rationale: everything should be obvious except the use of a separate
list, and the discard vs reject issue.  Using a separate list allows
you to have different rules for announcements (band member polls, I
guess?) and for discussion.  Since only the director needs to post to
it, only he/she needs to learn to use it, and it shouldn't be too hard
to learn if use is at all frequent.  Everybody else only really needs
to know the discussion list posting address.  The biggest cost is that
somebody needs to make sure that every new member is on both lists.
(Yes, this is stupid, and it will be fixed in Mailman 3, but we're not
there yet.  It also has the advantage that people who don't want to
receive general discussion can tune out without losing the important
announcements from the director.)

"Discard" means "without notifying the sender".  "Reject" means with
notification.  For the expected reply, there are three cases:

1.  The respondent sends only to the director: the list filter is not
    involved at all.  No problem with any list settings! :-)
2.  The respondent does reply-to-all: the personal copy to the
    director is sent and received, the copy to the list filtered.
    With discard, the director is informed and the respondent is not
    spammed with a reject notice.  This is what you want.  With
    reject, the respondent is spammed, may try again, and worse, may
    contact you for help.  Yucky.
3.  The respondent removes the director's address and sends only to
    the list.  With "discard", they never know; with "reject", they
    are informed of their mistake.  However, this is perverse
    behavior.  It seems unlikely to be a frequent problem, since it
    requires both doing reply-to-all and deliberately removing the
    director's address, which will *always* be one of the addresses.

Unexpected replies are probably of the form "it's a band list, if I
reply to it, it will go to the band".  I can't really call this
"perverse", just, ah, "uneducated".  I suggest calling the list "XYZ
Band Director Announcement", and even if people accidentally send to
it thinking it's the discussion list, they'll be a little sheepish
about it, which will reduce the likelihood of complaints.

When first introducing the system, you might consider "hold" instead
of "discard"; this would allow you to recover inadvertant real posts,
at the cost of having to explicitly discard a possibly large number of
reply-to-alls.  After a reasonable educational period (you'd have to
decide that based on the band members), switch to discard.  Keep stats
on how many reply-to-alls are received vs. inadvertant real posts;
that will convince any reasonable person that the educational period
is really a burden on the list moderator, and should be kept short.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon May  3 07:44:20 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 14:44:20 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ****SPAM**** Re:  Block reply to all
In-Reply-To: <4BDE391C.7020508@justbrits.com>
References: <1967.1272846911@knology.net>
	<4BDE391C.7020508@justbrits.com>
Message-ID: <878w817d57.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

"Shop at \" Just Brits \"" writes:

 > So my only remaining question is "Why a MM List at all. ?" ??

So that members can update their own addresses and other information
(eg, turn delivery off when on vacation).  The MUA group solution
requires that the director update that information.

Also, when we move to MM3, a member database with lots of other
interesting information (eg, members' instruments, members with
instruments to loan, members who can play instruments they don't
currently own) could be attached in lieu of the rather impoverished
database we use now.

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Mon May  3 13:13:18 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 07:13:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005021602140078d3552e1c@msapiro>
References: <PC195201005021602140078d3552e1c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BDEAFCE.7000703@libertytrek.org>

On 2010-05-02 7:02 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Tanstaafl wrote:
>> On 2010-05-02 5:22 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> If your list mail goes to ... at example.com and example.com is a local
>>> domain in Postfix (i.e. in mydestinations), you don't want
>>> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS at all and you don't want any references
>>> to Mailman's virtual-mailman in virtual_alias_maps in Postfix.

>> It's not local, I'm using virtual_mailbox_domains/maps... I do host
>> email for two other domains, just no lists (and no need for them)...

> This gets complicated. My question at this point is how is mail to
> listname at example.com getting to Mailman.

Hopefully you can help me figure that out... :)

> Any virtual mappings in Mailman's virtual-mailman will be for the
> listname at myhost.example.com,

Confirmed, /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman contains blocks like:

# STANZA START: listname
# CREATED: Wed Jan 11 18:32:22 2006
listname at myhost.example.com                    listname

Of course, they are complete with all required aliases for each list.

> etc. addresses, so Postfix can't be relying on that for delivery. So
> if example.com is not a local domain, how is mail to that domain
> getting to Postfix's local delivery in order that Mailman's pipe
> aliases are effective.

As far as I know and understand postfix, I'm using postfix's virtual
delivery agent currently, although I'll be switching this to dovecot-LDA
later. Getting the mailman hostname changed is one thing in a long list
- most of which are done now - of things I had to get done before
switching to dovecot.

> Are transport maps involved for this domain?

I do have one, but it is nothing really - it just has the one entry for
the vacation responder for postfixadmin, and a commented example entry
for bypassing our primary relayhost for any problematic domains. I had
to use it once a long time ago for a few domains that were having
problems accepting data from our primary relayhost (outsourced anti-spam
service), but they fixed that long ago and I haven't used it since.

> I probably need to see "postconf -n" and to understand whether there
> are only list addresses @example.com or if there are non-list virtual
> mailbox users @example.com too.

See below...

> Also, there are mailman generated addresses such as list-bounces, and
> these are currently all generated @myhost.example.com, so how is that
> mail delivered?

Mark, I honestly don't know enough about this stuff to answer that with
any certainty...

Hmmm... could it somehow be from my alias_maps?

/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases contains blocks like the following for
each list:

# STANZA START: listname
# CREATED: Wed Jan 11 18:32:22 2006
listname:             "|/usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post listname"

Again, of course, each has all of the required aliases.

myhost ~ # postconf -n
alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
anvil_rate_time_unit = 360s
anvil_status_update_time = 3600s
bounce_size_limit = 1
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
daemon_directory = //usr/lib64/postfix
data_directory = /var/lib/postfix
delay_warning_time = 15m
home_mailbox = .maildir/
html_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.6.6/html
mail_owner = postfix
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq
manpage_directory = /usr/share/man
message_size_limit = 51200000
mydomain = example.com
myhostname = smtp.example.com
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 ###.###.###.###
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases
parent_domain_matches_subdomains =
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.6.6/readme
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_domains =
relayhost = [smtp.example2.com]
sample_directory = /etc/postfix
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail
setgid_group = postdrop
smtp_fallback_relay = [smtp.example3.net]
smtpd_hard_error_limit = 3
smtpd_recipient_limit = 100
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = check_recipient_access
hash:/etc/postfix/moved-employees,  permit_mynetworks,
permit_sasl_authenticated,  reject_unauth_destination,
check_client_access cidr:/etc/postfix/allowed_clients.cidr,
check_recipient_access hash:/etc/postfix/x-employees,
check_sender_access hash:/etc/postfix/blocked_senders,
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $mydomain
smtpd_tls_auth_only = yes
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/ssl/wildcard.crt
smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/ssl/wildcard.key
smtpd_use_tls = yes
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf,
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
virtual_gid_maps = static:207
virtual_mailbox_base = /var/virtual/mail
virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmd.cf
virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf
virtual_minimum_uid = 207
virtual_uid_maps = static:207
myhost ~ #

Thanks again Mark...

-- 

Charles

From Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil  Mon May  3 16:57:56 2010
From: Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil (Hicks, Robert CTR)
Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 10:57:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Proper names
Message-ID: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE104ECEC72@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>

I have some account that have the proper name and the email address of the user. I would like all my lists to only have the email address of the users. Is there a way to remove all the "Joe Public" proper names?

Bob


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May  3 17:32:01 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 08:32:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Proper names
In-Reply-To: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE104ECEC72@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <PC195201005030832010562a803f9b3@msapiro>

Hicks, Robert CTR wrote:

>I have some account that have the proper name and the email address of the user. I would like all my lists to only have the email address of the users. Is there a way to remove all the "Joe Public" proper names?

If you have access to Mailman's command line tools, save the following
script (between the dashed lines) in Mailman's bin/ directory with
name remove_names.py and then run the command

 bin/withlist -l -a -r remove_names

-----------------------------------------------------
def remove_names(mlist):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    for member in mlist.getMembers():
        mlist.setMemberName(member, u'')
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()
-----------------------------------------------------

If you don't have access to do this, you would have to do it manually
through the admin Membership List pages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May  3 18:32:11 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 09:32:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <4BDEAFCE.7000703@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201005030932110625eee6a2bc@msapiro>

Tanstaafl wrote:

>On 2010-05-02 7:02 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> This gets complicated. My question at this point is how is mail to
>> listname at example.com getting to Mailman.
>
>Hopefully you can help me figure that out... :)


I think I can.


>/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases contains blocks like the following for
>each list:
>
># STANZA START: listname
># CREATED: Wed Jan 11 18:32:22 2006
>listname:             "|/usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post listname"
>
>Again, of course, each has all of the required aliases.


Right, and those are absolutely required for all deliveries.


>myhost ~ # postconf -n
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases


And the above references those Mailman aliases which is good.


[...]
>mydomain = example.com


And this says that example.com is the local domain and it is included
by default in mydestination which means mail to the example.com domain
is delivered by postfix/local and uses Mailman's aliases.


[...]
>virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf,
>hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman


And this references Mailman's virtual maps created for the
myhost.example.com domain. Normally, for delivery of mail addressed
to, e.g. listname-owner at myhost.example.com via the virtual mapping
which maps that address to the local address listname-owner, you also
need

virtual_alias_domains = myhost.example.com

If it is working without that, there might be something in the
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf that is enabling it, or those
addresses may not be working, but if they are not, bounce processing
and some owner notifications may not be working,

So, How to proceed.

My understanding is you want the list addresses to be @example.com and
only the web host to be lists.example.com.

Given that understanding, what you want to end up with in mm_cfg.py is

MTA = 'Postfix'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.com'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

with no POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS at all, and, you can remove

hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

from Postfix virtual_alias_maps and remove the
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman* files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Mon May  3 23:05:02 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 17:05:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005030932110625eee6a2bc@msapiro>
References: <PC195201005030932110625eee6a2bc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BDF3A7E.8040805@libertytrek.org>

I apologize for this taking so long to figure out, Mark... hopefully
we're almost there...

On 2010-05-03 12:32 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Tanstaafl wrote:
>> On 2010-05-02 7:02 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> This gets complicated. My question at this point is how is mail to
>>> listname at example.com getting to Mailman.

>> Hopefully you can help me figure that out... :)

> I think I can.

Somehow I believe you... ;)

>> myhost ~ # postconf -n

<snip>

> [...]
>> mydomain = example.com

> And this says that example.com is the local domain

Hmmm... the postfix docs do not say that this setting equates to a LOCAL
domain...

> and it is included by default in mydestination

Not according to the docs:

http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#mydestination

mydestination (default: $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost)

localhost.$mydomain != $mydomain

> which means mail to the example.com domain is delivered by
> postfix/local and uses Mailman's aliases.

Hmmm... well, deliveries to normal email addresses @example.com
definitely have always used postfix/virtual:

May  3 13:48:25 myhost postfix/smtpd[24359]: connect from
hostname.inboundrelay.com[###.###.###.###]
May  3 13:48:25 myhost postfix/smtpd[24359]: EF3DB650B4F:
client=hostname.inboundrelay.com[###.###.###.###]
May  3 13:48:26 myhost postfix/cleanup[24236]: EF3DB650B4F:
message-id=<4BDF0E0A.7010908 at inboundhost.inbounddomain.com>
May  3 13:48:26 myhost postfix/qmgr[3930]: EF3DB650B4F:
from=<external_user at smtp.example2.com>, size=42218, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
May  3 13:48:26 myhost postfix/virtual[24368]: EF3DB650B4F:
to=<valid_user at example.com>, relay=virtual, delay=0.68,
delays=0.67/0/0/0.01, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to maildir)
May  3 13:48:26 myhost postfix/qmgr[3930]: EF3DB650B4F: removed
May  3 13:48:26 myhost postfix/smtpd[24359]: disconnect from
hostname.inboundrelay.com[###.###.###.###]

But, you are right, messages to any of the *list* addresses are
definitely handled by postfix/local (I just must have never noticed),
and there is something unexpected (see below log sample)...

> [...]
>> virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf,
>> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

> And this references Mailman's virtual maps created for the
> myhost.example.com domain. Normally, for delivery of mail addressed
> to, e.g. listname-owner at myhost.example.com via the virtual mapping
> which maps that address to the local address listname-owner, you also
> need
> 
> virtual_alias_domains = myhost.example.com

Nope... these return nothing:

myhost # ~ postmap -q myhost.example.com mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmd.cf
myhost # ~ postmap -q smtp.example.com mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmd.cf

This returns 'Primary Domain' (description in postfixadmin db):

myhost # ~ postmap -q example.com mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmd.cf

> If it is working without that, there might be something in the
> mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf that is enabling it,

user = myuser
password = mypassword
hosts = localhost
dbname = mydb
query = SELECT goto FROM alias WHERE address='%s'

> or those addresses may not be working,

By those addresses, you mean valid_user at example.com? Been working for
over 4 years like this...

> but if they are not, bounce processing and some owner notifications
> may not be working,

I do get messages to listname-owner, as well as bounce notifications...

Something that might help shed some more light though... now that I know
that list deliveries are handled by postfix/local and regular email
addresses by postfix/virtual, I looked more closely at the logs...

Here is a snippet of a list message - note the line where my servers
name (myhost) is appended:

13:17:44 myhost postfix/smtpd[24018]: connect from
my.workstation.example.com[###.###.###.###]
May  3 13:17:44 myhost postfix/smtpd[24018]: 45FC66B690E:
client=my.workstation.example.com[###.###.###.###], sasl_method=PLAIN,
sasl_username=me at example.com
May  3 13:17:44 myhost postfix/cleanup[24025]: 45FC66B690E:
message-id=<4BDF0537.6030405 at example.com>
May  3 13:17:44 myhost postfix/qmgr[3930]: 45FC66B690E:
from=<me at example.com>, size=850, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
May  3 13:17:44 myhost postfix/smtpd[24018]: disconnect from
my.workstation.example.com[###.###.###.###]
May  3 13:17:44 myhost imapd-ssl: DISCONNECTED, user=me at example.com,
ip=[::ffff:###.###.###.###], headers=2144, body=5670, rcvd=1702,
sent=56680, time=1908, starttls=1
May  3 13:17:44 myhost postfix/local[24039]: 45FC66B690E:
to=<listname at smtp.example.com>, orig_to=<ListName at Example.com>,
relay=local, delay=0.64, delays=0.02/0.04/0/0.58, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent
(delivered to command: /usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post listname)
May  3 13:17:44 myhost postfix/qmgr[3930]: 45FC66B690E: removed
May  3 13:17:46 myhost postfix/smtpd[24020]: connect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]
May  3 13:17:46 myhost postfix/smtpd[24020]: 265E36285BC:
client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
May  3 13:17:46 myhost postfix/cleanup[24025]: 265E36285BC:
message-id=<4BDF0537.6030405 at Example.com>

May  3 13:17:46 myhost postfix/qmgr[3930]: 265E36285BC:
from=<listname-bounces at myhost.example.com>, size=1334, nrcpt=4 (queue
active)
        ^^^^^^
NOTE:   ^^^^^^ where did that come from?

May  3 13:17:46 myhost postfix/smtpd[24020]: disconnect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]
May  3 13:17:46 myhost postfix/virtual[24027]: 265E36285BC:
to=<listmember at example.com>, relay=virtual, delay=0.02,
delays=0.01/0/0/0.01, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to maildir)
May  3 13:17:46 myhost postfix/qmgr[3930]: 265E36285BC: removed

> So, How to proceed.
> 
> My understanding is you want the list addresses to be @example.com and
> only the web host to be lists.example.com.

Yes... but... I also want example.com to *not* be considered a local
domain for normal email...

> Given that understanding, what you want to end up with in mm_cfg.py is
> 
> MTA = 'Postfix'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.com'
> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> 
> with no POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS at all, and, you can remove
> 
> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> 
> from Postfix virtual_alias_maps and remove the
> /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman* files.

So:

1. Stop postfix

2. Stop mailman

3. Make the (above) changes to mm_cfg.py

4. Run $prefix/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url to fix all existing lists

5. Run $prefix/bin/genaliases

6. Start mailman

7. Start postfix

> What about web server changes for the lists.example.com vs.
> myhost.example.com change (there may not be any), and DNS for the
> lists.example.com domain?

I've already got the DNS setup... but this question made me realize,
there isn't any vhost file set up for mailman access, and its been a
long time since I originally set this up (with some help from someone
else who apparently only knew a little more than I did - ;) ...

The current list management pages are at the address:

https://myhost.example.com/mailman/...

I looked at /etc/apache2/modules.d/50_mailman.conf, but it doesn't show
anything about my hostname, so, what controls the root directory?

Thanks again Mark, I think (hope) we're almost there... I'm gonna owe
you a kegger (or more/whatever you prefer) when we're done... :)

-- 

Charles

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Mon May  3 23:23:02 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 17:23:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11971.1272920710.23597.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.11971.1272920710.23597.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <4BDF3EB6.9070006@libertytrek.org>

On 2010-05-03 5:05 PM, mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:
> May  3 13:17:46 myhost postfix/qmgr[3930]: 265E36285BC:
> from=<listname-bounces at myhost.example.com>, size=1334, nrcpt=4 (queue
> active)
>         ^^^^^^
> NOTE:   ^^^^^^ where did that come from?

Sorry, that wrapped weird...

May  3 13:17:46 myhost postfix/qmgr[3930]: 265E36285BC:
from=<listname-bounces at myhost.example.com>, size=1334,
                       ^^^^^^
NOTE:                  ^^^^^^ where did that come from?

-- 

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  4 00:24:19 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 15:24:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <4BDF3A7E.8040805@libertytrek.org>
References: <PC195201005030932110625eee6a2bc@msapiro>
	<4BDF3A7E.8040805@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <4BDF4D13.8070007@msapiro.net>

On 5/3/2010 2:05 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> 
> On 2010-05-03 12:32 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>> [...]
>>> mydomain = example.com
> 
>> And this says that example.com is the local domain
> 
> Hmmm... the postfix docs do not say that this setting equates to a LOCAL
> domain...
> 
>> and it is included by default in mydestination
> 
> Not according to the docs:


You're right. I confused myself because in my Postfix installation,
mydomain and myhostname have the same value.


[...]
> Hmmm... well, deliveries to normal email addresses @example.com
> definitely have always used postfix/virtual:
> 
> May  3 13:48:25 myhost postfix/smtpd[24359]: connect from
> hostname.inboundrelay.com[###.###.###.###]
> May  3 13:48:25 myhost postfix/smtpd[24359]: EF3DB650B4F:
> client=hostname.inboundrelay.com[###.###.###.###]
> May  3 13:48:26 myhost postfix/cleanup[24236]: EF3DB650B4F:
> message-id=<4BDF0E0A.7010908 at inboundhost.inbounddomain.com>
> May  3 13:48:26 myhost postfix/qmgr[3930]: EF3DB650B4F:
> from=<external_user at smtp.example2.com>, size=42218, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
> May  3 13:48:26 myhost postfix/virtual[24368]: EF3DB650B4F:
> to=<valid_user at example.com>, relay=virtual, delay=0.68,
> delays=0.67/0/0/0.01, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to maildir)
> May  3 13:48:26 myhost postfix/qmgr[3930]: EF3DB650B4F: removed
> May  3 13:48:26 myhost postfix/smtpd[24359]: disconnect from
> hostname.inboundrelay.com[###.###.###.###]


OK.


> But, you are right, messages to any of the *list* addresses are
> definitely handled by postfix/local (I just must have never noticed),
> and there is something unexpected (see below log sample)...


See comments below.


>> [...]
>>> virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf,
>>> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> 
>> And this references Mailman's virtual maps created for the
>> myhost.example.com domain. Normally, for delivery of mail addressed
>> to, e.g. listname-owner at myhost.example.com via the virtual mapping
>> which maps that address to the local address listname-owner, you also
>> need
>>
>> virtual_alias_domains = myhost.example.com
> 
> Nope... these return nothing:
> 
> myhost # ~ postmap -q myhost.example.com mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmd.cf
> myhost # ~ postmap -q smtp.example.com mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmd.cf
> 
> This returns 'Primary Domain' (description in postfixadmin db):
> 
> myhost # ~ postmap -q example.com mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmd.cf


So it appears that example.com is a virtual_mailbox_domain. So what's in
virtual_mailbox_maps (mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf)? Does

postmap -s mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf

work?


>> If it is working without that, there might be something in the
>> mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf that is enabling it,
> 
> user = myuser
> password = mypassword
> hosts = localhost
> dbname = mydb
> query = SELECT goto FROM alias WHERE address='%s'
> 
>> or those addresses may not be working,
> 
> By those addresses, you mean valid_user at example.com? Been working for
> over 4 years like this...


No. I mean addresses like list-owner at myhost.example.com.


>> but if they are not, bounce processing and some owner notifications
>> may not be working,
> 
> I do get messages to listname-owner, as well as bounce notifications...
> 
> Something that might help shed some more light though... now that I know
> that list deliveries are handled by postfix/local and regular email
> addresses by postfix/virtual, I looked more closely at the logs...
> 
> Here is a snippet of a list message - note the line where my servers
> name (myhost) is appended:
> 
> 13:17:44 myhost postfix/smtpd[24018]: connect from
> my.workstation.example.com[###.###.###.###]
> May  3 13:17:44 myhost postfix/smtpd[24018]: 45FC66B690E:
> client=my.workstation.example.com[###.###.###.###], sasl_method=PLAIN,
> sasl_username=me at example.com
> May  3 13:17:44 myhost postfix/cleanup[24025]: 45FC66B690E:
> message-id=<4BDF0537.6030405 at example.com>
> May  3 13:17:44 myhost postfix/qmgr[3930]: 45FC66B690E:
> from=<me at example.com>, size=850, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
> May  3 13:17:44 myhost postfix/smtpd[24018]: disconnect from
> my.workstation.example.com[###.###.###.###]
> May  3 13:17:44 myhost imapd-ssl: DISCONNECTED, user=me at example.com,
> ip=[::ffff:###.###.###.###], headers=2144, body=5670, rcvd=1702,
> sent=56680, time=1908, starttls=1
> May  3 13:17:44 myhost postfix/local[24039]: 45FC66B690E:
> to=<listname at smtp.example.com>, orig_to=<ListName at Example.com>,
> relay=local, delay=0.64, delays=0.02/0.04/0/0.58, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent
> (delivered to command: /usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post listname)


Apparently, smtp.example.com is myhostname which is in mydestinations by
default, but now I am puzzled. What is it in your Postfix that maps
ListName at Example.com to local 'listname'? There must be something. This
is the strange part - why is listname at example.com mapped to local
listname but non-listname-user at example.com is mapped to a virtual
mailbox maildir?


> May  3 13:17:44 myhost postfix/qmgr[3930]: 45FC66B690E: removed
> May  3 13:17:46 myhost postfix/smtpd[24020]: connect from
> localhost[127.0.0.1]
> May  3 13:17:46 myhost postfix/smtpd[24020]: 265E36285BC:
> client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
> May  3 13:17:46 myhost postfix/cleanup[24025]: 265E36285BC:
> message-id=<4BDF0537.6030405 at Example.com>
> 
> May  3 13:17:46 myhost postfix/qmgr[3930]: 265E36285BC:
> from=<listname-bounces at myhost.example.com>, size=1334, nrcpt=4 (queue
> active)
>                        ^^^^^^
> NOTE:                  ^^^^^^ where did that come from?


That's what I've been saying all along. The list's host_name is
myhost.example.com, so EVERY mailman generated list related address is
@myhost.example.com.

This is part of what is 'wrong' in your current configuration.


[...]
>> My understanding is you want the list addresses to be @example.com and
>> only the web host to be lists.example.com.
> 
> Yes... but... I also want example.com to *not* be considered a local
> domain for normal email...


Apparently, that is what's happening now. The question is why?

Note: All mail to Mailman is ultimately delivered according to the pipe
commands in Mailman's aliases file. For this to work, that mail must be
delivered by Postfix local delivery because local is the only delivery
that consults alias_maps.

So you need list addresses to be handled by local and other addresses in
the example.com domain to be handled by virtual. As I said, that is
apparently working now. On way to accomplish this is via transport_maps.
It is possible even to make a script so mailman writes virtual-mailman
maps which are edited into transport mappings that specify the local
transport for those addresses. But you said there's nothing in
transport_maps doing this now.

Find out how the list at example.com addresses are being mapped to local
addresses.


>> Given that understanding, what you want to end up with in mm_cfg.py is
>>
>> MTA = 'Postfix'
>> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.com'
>> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>>
>> with no POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS at all, and, you can remove
>>
>> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>>
>> from Postfix virtual_alias_maps and remove the
>> /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman* files.
> 
> So:
> 
> 1. Stop postfix
> 
> 2. Stop mailman
> 
> 3. Make the (above) changes to mm_cfg.py
> 
> 4. Run $prefix/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url to fix all existing lists
> 
> 5. Run $prefix/bin/genaliases
> 
> 6. Start mailman
> 
> 7. Start postfix


First we have to figure out exactly why Postfix is doing the right thing
with the example.com domain now. Until we know that, we don't know
whether virtual_alias_maps and POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS are important.


>> What about web server changes for the lists.example.com vs.
>> myhost.example.com change (there may not be any), and DNS for the
>> lists.example.com domain?
> 
> I've already got the DNS setup... but this question made me realize,
> there isn't any vhost file set up for mailman access, and its been a
> long time since I originally set this up (with some help from someone
> else who apparently only knew a little more than I did - ;) ...
> 
> The current list management pages are at the address:
> 
> https://myhost.example.com/mailman/...
> 
> I looked at /etc/apache2/modules.d/50_mailman.conf, but it doesn't show
> anything about my hostname, so, what controls the root directory?


There is a ScriptAlias for mailman. If it is in a global section of
httpd.conf, it's OK as is. If it is in a VirtualHost block for
myhost.example.com, it will have to be moved/added to a VirtualHost
block for lists.example.com. Likewise for any pipermail Alias and any
Directory blocks relating to Mailman directories.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kalin at el.net  Tue May  4 04:09:19 2010
From: kalin at el.net (kalin m)
Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 22:09:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces
Message-ID: <4BDF81CF.4060607@el.net>



hi there...  wondering if fake email addresses in a mailman list can get 
cleaned up with the bounces options. just testing with one and the mail 
log says (correctly) it could not resolve the host. is this considered a 
hard bounce by mailman?! i have enabled the bounce processing, the 
maximum bounce score is 1.0, the bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings are 
set to 0 expecting immediate removal. now that i sent a couple of test 
messages out that fake address is still in the members list. what needs 
to happened?

thanks..

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  4 05:19:48 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 20:19:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces
In-Reply-To: <4BDF81CF.4060607@el.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201005032019480843c1e50efb@msapiro>

kalin m wrote:
>
>hi there...  wondering if fake email addresses in a mailman list can get 
>cleaned up with the bounces options. just testing with one and the mail 
>log says (correctly) it could not resolve the host. is this considered a 
>hard bounce by mailman?!


Is it considered a hard bounce by your MTA? I.e. is it a 5xx or a 4xx
status. That's what determines whether Mailman consideres it a bounce
or not.


>i have enabled the bounce processing, the 
>maximum bounce score is 1.0, the bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings are 
>set to 0 expecting immediate removal. now that i sent a couple of test 
>messages out that fake address is still in the members list. what needs 
>to happened?


Your MTA needs to return a 5xx for the recipient to Mailman during SMTP
or to send a 5xx DSN to listname-bounces.

Is the message still queued and being retried in the MTA, or is it
still being retried by Mailman?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Tue May  4 18:05:02 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2010 12:05:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <4BDF4D13.8070007@msapiro.net>
References: <PC195201005030932110625eee6a2bc@msapiro>
	<4BDF3A7E.8040805@libertytrek.org> <4BDF4D13.8070007@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4BE045AE.20007@libertytrek.org>

On 2010-05-03 6:24 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 5/3/2010 2:05 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
>>
>> On 2010-05-03 12:32 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> You're right. I confused myself because in my Postfix installation,
> mydomain and myhostname have the same value.

Heh... I'm more than a little confused right now, so no worries.

But see below - I actually think I've at least answered how/why it is
working, but I'm not sure what needs to be done to 'fix it' - or even if
it needs 'fixing'...

> So it appears that example.com is a virtual_mailbox_domain. So what's
> in virtual_mailbox_maps (mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf)? Does
> 
> postmap -s mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf
> 
> work?

No :( is it supposed to?

# postmap -s mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf
postmap: fatal: mysql table /etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf: sequence
operation is not supported

Now... toward the end of your email, you had essentially summed up the
issue as:

> Apparently, smtp.example.com is myhostname which is in mydestinations by
> default, but now I am puzzled. What is it in your Postfix that maps
> ListName at Example.com to local 'listname'? There must be something. This
> is the strange part - why is listname at example.com mapped to local
> listname but non-listname-user at example.com is mapped to a virtual
> mailbox maildir?

So, I started at the beginning and started querying all of my maps, and
voila:

# postmap -q listname at example.com mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf
listname at myhost.example.com

which then maps to

# postmap -q listname at myhost.example.com
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
listname

and /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman is fully populated with these
STANZA's for all lists:

# STANZA START: listname
# CREATED: Wed Jan 11 18:32:22 2006
listname at myhost.example.com              listname
etc...

But this kind of seems backwards to me... or at least, more complicated
than it needs to be. Maybe I initially wanted a virtual setup, but now
realize I only need lists for the one/main domain? <shrug>

Anyway, now I guess I just need to know if there's anything broken that
I really need to fix, or at least if it can be simplified. I'm also
thinking long term, for when MM3 is released and upgrade time comes.

Thanks again Mark...

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Tue May  4 18:09:08 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2010 12:09:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache > Mailman VHost Config - WAS: Re: Changing
 host names, revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <4BDF4D13.8070007@msapiro.net>
References: <PC195201005030932110625eee6a2bc@msapiro>
	<4BDF3A7E.8040805@libertytrek.org> <4BDF4D13.8070007@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4BE046A4.9050206@libertytrek.org>

Splitting this off since it's a separate issue...

On 2010-05-03 6:24 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 5/3/2010 2:05 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
>> On 2010-05-03 12:32 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> What about web server changes for the lists.example.com vs.
>>> myhost.example.com change (there may not be any), and DNS for the
>>> lists.example.com domain?

>> I've already got the DNS setup... but this question made me realize,
>> there isn't any vhost file set up for mailman access, and its been a
>> long time since I originally set this up (with some help from someone
>> else who apparently only knew a little more than I did - ;) ...
>> 
>> The current list management pages are at the address:
>> 
>> https://myhost.example.com/mailman/...
>> 
>> I looked at /etc/apache2/modules.d/50_mailman.conf, but it doesn't show
>> anything about my hostname, so, what controls the root directory?

> There is a ScriptAlias for mailman. If it is in a global section of 
> httpd.conf, it's OK as is.

It isn't... :(

> If it is in a VirtualHost block for myhost.example.com, it will have 
> to be moved/added to a VirtualHost block for lists.example.com.

It isn't... :(

I've also traced every virtual host file, starting with httpd.conf, and
everything in /etc/apache2/vhosts.d/, and I don't see anything providing
a virtual host block for mailman.

> Likewise for any pipermail Alias and any Directory blocks relating
> to Mailman directories.

Where would I find these?

<sigh>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  4 19:25:16 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 10:25:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <4BE045AE.20007@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201005041025160734a0e0732e@msapiro>

Tanstaafl wrote:

>On 2010-05-03 6:24 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> So it appears that example.com is a virtual_mailbox_domain. So what's
>> in virtual_mailbox_maps (mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf)? Does
>> 
>> postmap -s mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf
>> 
>> work?
>
>No :( is it supposed to?
>
># postmap -s mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf
>postmap: fatal: mysql table /etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf: sequence
>operation is not supported


No, it's not supposed to work, but I didn't know. I don't have any
mysql tables. The docs say that -s only works with some database
types, but doesnt say which ones, so I suspected it wouldn't work, but
didn't know for sure.



># postmap -q listname at example.com mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf
>listname at myhost.example.com
>
>which then maps to
>
># postmap -q listname at myhost.example.com
>hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>listname
>
>and /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman is fully populated with these
>STANZA's for all lists:
>
># STANZA START: listname
># CREATED: Wed Jan 11 18:32:22 2006
>listname at myhost.example.com              listname
>etc...
>
>But this kind of seems backwards to me... or at least, more complicated
>than it needs to be. Maybe I initially wanted a virtual setup, but now
>realize I only need lists for the one/main domain? <shrug>


Here's how it looks to me. It was initially set up with email domain
myhost.example.com and that is all fine. It all works as it should.
You then decided that you wanted to be able to post to
listname at example.com so you added a virtual_alias_mapping in
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf to map listname at example.com to
listname at myhost.example.com where it would be further mapped to local
listname via Mailman's hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

The only problem with this is the listname listinfo page, list welcome
messages, etc all say post to listname at myhost.example.com


>Anyway, now I guess I just need to know if there's anything broken that
>I really need to fix, or at least if it can be simplified. I'm also
>thinking long term, for when MM3 is released and upgrade time comes.


You can continue to do what you're doing and just change
myhost at example.com to lists.example.com, but that means you have to
manually maintain the particular mappings from listname at example.com to
listname at lists.example.com.

It would be better to just have the email domain as example.com and have

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.com']

so mailman creates the virtual-mailman. Then it appears that since
mapping listname at example.com to listname at myhost.example.com in the
current mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf works, you could just remove
those mappings from mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf and let the
mappings in virtual-mailman do the job.

However, read the FAQ  at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ZoCj> which I just
wrote yesterday. Now I'm not sure whether that is even necessary.
Clearly my understanding of Postfix is not complete. In your setup, is
example.com a virtual_mailbox_domain (listed in
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmd.cf)?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  4 19:44:00 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 10:44:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache > Mailman VHost Config - WAS: Re:
	Changinghost names, revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <4BE046A4.9050206@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201005041044000906a0e073ca@msapiro>

Tanstaafl wrote:
>
>On 2010-05-03 6:24 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> On 5/3/2010 2:05 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
>>> 
>>> I looked at /etc/apache2/modules.d/50_mailman.conf, but it doesn't show
>>> anything about my hostname, so, what controls the root directory?
>
>> There is a ScriptAlias for mailman. If it is in a global section of 
>> httpd.conf, it's OK as is.
>
>It isn't... :(


Isn't there something like

ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/"

and

Alias /pipermail/ "/path/to/mailman/archives/public/"

in something like /etc/apache2/conf.d/50_mailman.conf?

That should be all you need.


[...]
>I've also traced every virtual host file, starting with httpd.conf, and
>everything in /etc/apache2/vhosts.d/, and I don't see anything providing
>a virtual host block for mailman.


Typical Apache configuration directives for Mailman include the above
ScriptAlias and Alias directives plus something like

<Directory "/path/to/mailman/archives/public">
    Options +FollowSymLinks
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

In your case, I would expect to find this in
/etc/apache2/conf.d/50_mailman.conf

Since that file would be included globally and not within a VirtualHost
block for a specific host like myhost.example.com, everything should
be OK as is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kalin at el.net  Wed May  5 03:08:21 2010
From: kalin at el.net (kalin m)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2010 21:08:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005032019480843c1e50efb@msapiro>
References: <PC195201005032019480843c1e50efb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BE0C505.9020108@el.net>


so if it's not 5xx it's not a bad email?  i see dsn=4.0.0. that's not 
enough?

i'm assuming it's retried by the mta. the settings in mailman clearly 
state that it should be discarded right away...


bounce settings:

bounce_score_threshold = 1.0
bounce_info_stale_after = 10
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 0

not sure about the bounce_info_stale_after. the way i interpret this is 
that the bounce information will be kept for about 10 days in case the 
score rises. if i put this down to zero the score will start clean every 
day. is that correct? or is this the reason for the repeated log entries 
- lots of to=<vvv at zzzzzz.com> attempts...

here, from the maillog:
to=<vvv at zzzzzz.com>, delay=03:42:23, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, 
pri=785918, relay=zzzzzz.com., dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred: Name server: 
zzzzzz.com.: host
 name lookup failure

thanks...


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> kalin m wrote:
>   
>> hi there...  wondering if fake email addresses in a mailman list can get 
>> cleaned up with the bounces options. just testing with one and the mail 
>> log says (correctly) it could not resolve the host. is this considered a 
>> hard bounce by mailman?!
>>     
>
>
> Is it considered a hard bounce by your MTA? I.e. is it a 5xx or a 4xx
> status. That's what determines whether Mailman consideres it a bounce
> or not.
>
>
>   
>> i have enabled the bounce processing, the 
>> maximum bounce score is 1.0, the bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings are 
>> set to 0 expecting immediate removal. now that i sent a couple of test 
>> messages out that fake address is still in the members list. what needs 
>> to happened?
>>     
>
>
> Your MTA needs to return a 5xx for the recipient to Mailman during SMTP
> or to send a 5xx DSN to listname-bounces.
>
> Is the message still queued and being retried in the MTA, or is it
> still being retried by Mailman?
>
>   

From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed May  5 03:29:21 2010
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2010 20:29:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces
In-Reply-To: <4BE0C505.9020108@el.net>
References: <PC195201005032019480843c1e50efb@msapiro> <4BE0C505.9020108@el.net>
Message-ID: <4BE0C9F1.9050207@riverviewtech.net>

kalin m wrote:
> so if it's not 5xx it's not a bad email?  i see dsn=4.0.0. that's not 
> enough?

In SMTP 4.y.z DSNs are "temporary" errors.  They could be caused by a 
spam filter over loaded, or the system shutting down, or...

> i'm assuming it's retried by the mta. the settings in mailman clearly 
> state that it should be discarded right away...

The 4.y.z should be seen as an invitation for the SMTP server to try 
sending the message again at a later time.

The MTA will eventually time out the message and generate a permanent error.



Grant. . . .

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May  5 05:16:34 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 20:16:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces
In-Reply-To: <4BE0C9F1.9050207@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201005042016340718826dfcb0@msapiro>

Grant Taylor wrote:

>kalin m wrote:
>> so if it's not 5xx it's not a bad email?  i see dsn=4.0.0. that's not 
>> enough?
>
>In SMTP 4.y.z DSNs are "temporary" errors.  They could be caused by a 
>spam filter over loaded, or the system shutting down, or...
>
>> i'm assuming it's retried by the mta. the settings in mailman clearly 
>> state that it should be discarded right away...
>
>The 4.y.z should be seen as an invitation for the SMTP server to try 
>sending the message again at a later time.
>
>The MTA will eventually time out the message and generate a permanent error.


Or, if the MTA returns the 4xx status directly to Mailman during SMTP,
Mailman will retry the send every DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT (default 1 hour)
for DELIVERY_RETRY_PERIOD (default 5 days), but in this case, mailman
will eventually give up but not record a bounce.

If this is the case and you want Mailman to record a bounce, you have
to arrange for your MTA to return a 5xx status for an invalid
recipient domain.

So the first question is where is the message. Is it queued in the MTA,
or is it in Mailman's retry queue. If it's queued in the MTA, as Grant
says, the MTA will eventually time out on this message and return a
hard bounce to Mailman. If it is queued in Mailman, mailman will
eventually give up and no bounce will be recorded.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Wed May  5 13:20:39 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 07:20:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache > Mailman VHost Config - WAS: Re:
 Changinghost names, revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005041044000906a0e073ca@msapiro>
References: <PC195201005041044000906a0e073ca@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BE15487.50806@libertytrek.org>

On 2010-05-04 1:44 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Isn't there something like
> 
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/"
> 
> and
> 
> Alias /pipermail/ "/path/to/mailman/archives/public/"
> 
> in something like /etc/apache2/conf.d/50_mailman.conf?
> 
> That should be all you need.

Ah, right, I forgot about that one... yep, everything looks right so
that answers that...

Thanks again for all of your help Mark.

-- 

Charles

From b19141 at anl.gov  Wed May  5 14:37:57 2010
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed,  5 May 2010 07:37:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Grant Taylor <gtaylor@riverviewtech.net>'
	dated: Tue, 04 May 2010 20:29:21 -0500
Message-ID: <20100505123757.C004940549@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

>In SMTP 4.y.z DSNs are "temporary" errors.  They could be caused by a 
>spam filter over loaded, or the system shutting down, or...
>
>> i'm assuming it's retried by the mta. the settings in mailman clearly 
>> state that it should be discarded right away...
>
>The 4.y.z should be seen as an invitation for the SMTP server to try 
>sending the message again at a later time.
>
>The MTA will eventually time out the message and generate a permanent error.

I assume that there will be a warning message sent back to the "sender"
after the mail has been queued for a few hours (we have in Postfix
"delay_warning_time = 8").  I assume that the warning message will
be sent to the list -bounces address, and that Mailman will process
this warning correctly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 240, Room 5.B.8             Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From dave at ddwsvcs.com  Tue May  4 15:29:53 2010
From: dave at ddwsvcs.com (David Devereaux-Weber)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 08:29:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for Help recovering from Disk Full
Message-ID: <AANLkTilK98sHq02o6tmilfLaG9t1mOxpX-JB90RtjPBF@mail.gmail.com>

I'm running Mailman version 2.1.9 on Solaris.  I had a disk full
situation.  I'm resolving problems as I encounter them.  Can anyone
shed some light on this error message?  Is it possible to delete the
held messages file to clear this up?

Dave


Your "cron" job on ddwsvcs
/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs

produced the following output:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 203, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 104, in main
    discarded = auto_discard(mlist)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 192, in auto_discard
    heldmsgs = mlist.GetHeldMessageIds()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 143, in GetHeldMessageIds
    return self.__getmsgids(HELDMSG)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 138, in __getmsgids
    ids = [k for k, (op, data) in self.__db.items() if op == rtype]
TypeError: unpack non-sequence


-- 
David Devereaux-Weber, P.E.
DDW Services <http://ddwsvcs.com>
dave at ddwsvcs.com
(608)576-2599

From mary.y.wang at boeing.com  Wed May  5 04:13:26 2010
From: mary.y.wang at boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 19:13:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is the best way to move Mailman 2.1.9 to
	anther server?
Message-ID: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC04587A73CF@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>

Hi,

I'm currently running Mailman 2.1.9 on a server with a very old OS.  What is the best way to move/migrate Mailman 2.1.9 to a newer server with a newer OS?   Could I just copy files over?  Or do I need to reinstall/reconfigure again for the new server?

Please advise.
Mary




From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May  5 15:31:12 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 06:31:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces
In-Reply-To: <20100505123757.C004940549@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC19520100505063112085972d75ce7@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>I assume that there will be a warning message sent back to the "sender"
>after the mail has been queued for a few hours (we have in Postfix
>"delay_warning_time = 8").  I assume that the warning message will
>be sent to the list -bounces address, and that Mailman will process
>this warning correctly.


As you note, the sending of warnings, the warning time and the ultimate
give-up time are all controlled by the MTA and not Mailman. When
Mailman receives a Delay warning, it does the right thing which is to
ignore it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Wed May  5 15:52:53 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 09:52:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005041025160734a0e0732e@msapiro>
References: <PC195201005041025160734a0e0732e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BE17835.6020101@libertytrek.org>

On 2010-05-04 1:25 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Tanstaafl wrote:
>> On 2010-05-03 6:24 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Here's how it looks to me. It was initially set up with email domain 
> myhost.example.com and that is all fine. It all works as it should. 
> You then decided that you wanted to be able to post to 
> listname at example.com so you added a virtual_alias_mapping in 
> mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf to map listname at example.com to 
> listname at myhost.example.com where it would be further mapped to
> local listname via Mailman's
> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

Whew... you pretty much nailed it. Its been so long since I set this up
- and its been working so well - that I had completely forgotten how I
did this, but I remember now, and you're right, I did manually create
those aliases. :)

> The only problem with this is the listname listinfo page, list welcome
> messages, etc all say post to listname at myhost.example.com

No problem, since I'm going to fix this up now, thanks to you... :)

> It would be better to just have the email domain as example.com and
> have
> 
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.com']
> 
> so mailman creates the virtual-mailman. Then it appears that since 
> mapping listname at example.com to listname at myhost.example.com in the 
> current mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf works, you could just remove 
> those mappings from mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf and let the 
> mappings in virtual-mailman do the job.
> 
> However, read the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ZoCj> which I just 
> wrote yesterday. Now I'm not sure whether that is even necessary.

I read it, and don't think it is... it seems to be just a different way
to do the same thing, but is much more complicated (and therefore more
room for breakage)...

> Clearly my understanding of Postfix is not complete. In your setup,
> is example.com a virtual_mailbox_domain (listed in 
> mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmd.cf)?

Yes:

# postmap -q example.com mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmd.cf
Example Primary Domain

Ok, so, now that we know how/why the current setup works, can you
confirm the steps to fix it properly as:

1. Stop postfix

2. Stop mailman

3. Make these changes to mm_cfg.py:

  MTA = 'Postfix'
  DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
  DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.com'
  POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'example.com'
  VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
  add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

4. Run $prefix/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url to fix all existing lists

5. Run $prefix/bin/genaliases

6. Delete the listname*@example.com > listname*@myhost.example.com
   alias mappings from the mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf db

7. Start mailman

8. Start postfix

?

Many thanks again Mark... this has at least been a learning experience
for me... :)

-- 

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May  5 16:06:16 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 07:06:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for Help recovering from Disk Full
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilK98sHq02o6tmilfLaG9t1mOxpX-JB90RtjPBF@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005050706160203612ae69b@msapiro>

David Devereaux-Weber wrote:

>I'm running Mailman version 2.1.9 on Solaris.  I had a disk full
>situation.  I'm resolving problems as I encounter them.  Can anyone
>shed some light on this error message?  Is it possible to delete the
>held messages file to clear this up?
>
>Dave
>
>
>Your "cron" job on ddwsvcs
>/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs
>
>produced the following output:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 203, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 104, in main
>    discarded = auto_discard(mlist)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 192, in auto_discard
>    heldmsgs = mlist.GetHeldMessageIds()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 143, in GetHeldMessageIds
>    return self.__getmsgids(HELDMSG)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 138, in __getmsgids
>    ids = [k for k, (op, data) in self.__db.items() if op == rtype]
>TypeError: unpack non-sequence


Some list's lists/LISTNAME/request.pck file is corrupt. Yes, it can be
deleted if you know which one. If you don't, you can try

#!/bin/sh
cd ~mailman       (or whatever)
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`; do
echo $list
bin/dumpdb lists/$list/request.pck > /dev/null
done

which should throw the same TypeError on the bad file.

Note that this will lose everything that you would have seen on the
list's admindb page were the file not corrupted, but it's basically
lost anyway. If there are held messages, they are in files named
data/heldmsg-LISTNAME-nnn.*. If you want to try to recover these (if
any), see <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/hold_again>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May  5 16:12:25 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 07:12:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <4BE17835.6020101@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201005050712250515612ae7dc@msapiro>

Tanstaafl wrote:
>
>Ok, so, now that we know how/why the current setup works, can you
>confirm the steps to fix it properly as:
>
>1. Stop postfix
>
>2. Stop mailman
>
>3. Make these changes to mm_cfg.py:
>
>  MTA = 'Postfix'
>  DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
>  DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.com'
>  POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'example.com'


The above needs to be

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.com']

(it's a list of strings, not a string)


>  VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>  add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
>4. Run $prefix/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url to fix all existing lists
>
>5. Run $prefix/bin/genaliases
>
>6. Delete the listname*@example.com > listname*@myhost.example.com
>   alias mappings from the mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf db
>
>7. Start mailman
>
>8. Start postfix
>
>?


With the one change above, this seems all good.

Please let us know how this goes. I will need to revise that FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May  5 16:20:33 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 07:20:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is the best way to move Mailman 2.1.9
	toanther server?
In-Reply-To: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC04587A73CF@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005050720330812612ae90d@msapiro>

Wang, Mary Y wrote:
>
>I'm currently running Mailman 2.1.9 on a server with a very old OS.  What is the best way to move/migrate Mailman 2.1.9 to a newer server with a newer OS?   Could I just copy files over?  Or do I need to reinstall/reconfigure again for the new server?


I recommend downloading and installing Mailman 2.1.13 on the new server
(see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9> for some Python caveats)
and then just copying Mailman's lists/ and archives/private/
directories and running check_perms. archives/public will take care of
itself as lists are accessed. See the lists posts linked from the
first part of the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2oA9> for more.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Wed May  5 16:32:53 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 10:32:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005050712250515612ae7dc@msapiro>
References: <PC195201005050712250515612ae7dc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BE18195.9010907@libertytrek.org>

On 2010-05-05 10:12 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Tanstaafl wrote:
>>  POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'example.com'

> The above needs to be
> 
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.com']

<snip>

> With the one change above, this seems all good.
> 
> Please let us know how this goes. I will need to revise that FAQ.

Happy to do so, although I won't do this until tomorrow morning
(assuming I get in here early enough), as these lists are relatively
busy during the day.

Thanks again, Mark!

-- 

Charles

From savoy at uleth.ca  Thu May  6 00:14:25 2010
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 16:14:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments dir question
Message-ID: <z2vf71b9ad81005051514y725208ddk3b2d32ed0966e70c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all - I am running Mailman 2.1.5 (still!).

I was wondering what it is that determines if a message has "scrubbed
attachments". For instance, a couple of days ago, I sent a simple message to
one of my lists - just a sentence or two of text, and it created a directory
under
/archives/private/listname/attachments for it. I looked in there and
displayed
the HTML file it created, and all it had in it was my text and a few <BR>s.

I used the same mailer today and sent out another simple text message, and
no directory was created under attachments this time.

And then I compare my list (not-archived, digestible, no digest members)
to another identical list with plenty of posts sent to it (according to
/logs/post),
and there is no attachment directory at all. I just assumed it was the
mailer
I am using that determines if part of it should be scrubbed, but if that
were
so, why would there be inconsistencies between the message I posted just
now and the one I posted 2 days ago?

Thanks in advance.

 - jim -

From tygrrrnelson at gmail.com  Thu May  6 00:55:09 2010
From: tygrrrnelson at gmail.com (Ty Nelson)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 15:55:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mx Records and Mailmans use of a domain
Message-ID: <o2yfdaa5dfe1005051555x8646a5e8v8091d6e5d1547826@mail.gmail.com>

Hey geniuses,


In the beginning I was initially told that a shortcut moethod of getting
mailman to work with a domain was to just remove the domains mx records.
 This has worked.  My question is, how can I make it so my domain can still
have email working on the domain, as well as mailman?  As of now, mailman is
all the domain is used for.  Probably a dumb question, but how should I
setup my domains mx records so that the hosting company email still
functions with the domain, and mailman can also use the domain?

Thanks,
-Tyler

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May  6 03:28:25 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 18:28:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mx Records and Mailmans use of a domain
In-Reply-To: <o2yfdaa5dfe1005051555x8646a5e8v8091d6e5d1547826@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005051828250562f7b5998b@msapiro>

Ty Nelson wrote:
>
>In the beginning I was initially told that a shortcut moethod of getting
>mailman to work with a domain was to just remove the domains mx records.
> This has worked.  My question is, how can I make it so my domain can still
>have email working on the domain, as well as mailman?  As of now, mailman is
>all the domain is used for.  Probably a dumb question, but how should I
>setup my domains mx records so that the hosting company email still
>functions with the domain, and mailman can also use the domain?


I assume the Mailman server is not the same as the hosting company's
mail server. In that case, you have two choices. You can leave your
domain with no MX and only an A record (or an MX that points to the
domain) and teach your MTA to relay non-Mailman-list mail to the
hosting company's server, or you can set your domain's MX to point to
the hosting company server and teach it to relay all Mailman list mail
to your server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tygrrrnelson at gmail.com  Thu May  6 03:34:48 2010
From: tygrrrnelson at gmail.com (Ty Nelson)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 18:34:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mx Records and Mailmans use of a domain
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005051828250562f7b5998b@msapiro>
References: <o2yfdaa5dfe1005051555x8646a5e8v8091d6e5d1547826@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201005051828250562f7b5998b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <i2yfdaa5dfe1005051834tc6d51ca3ia289f562ad93913f@mail.gmail.com>

Perfect!  Thanks for letting me know those two options.  I think my last
question is how can I teach my MTA to relay non-Mailman-list mail to the
hosting company's server?  Is that something that is simple or should I
contact the hosting company to inquire about that?

Thanks again Mark!
-Tyler

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Ty Nelson wrote:
> >
> >In the beginning I was initially told that a shortcut moethod of getting
> >mailman to work with a domain was to just remove the domains mx records.
> > This has worked.  My question is, how can I make it so my domain can
> still
> >have email working on the domain, as well as mailman?  As of now, mailman
> is
> >all the domain is used for.  Probably a dumb question, but how should I
> >setup my domains mx records so that the hosting company email still
> >functions with the domain, and mailman can also use the domain?
>
>
> I assume the Mailman server is not the same as the hosting company's
> mail server. In that case, you have two choices. You can leave your
> domain with no MX and only an A record (or an MX that points to the
> domain) and teach your MTA to relay non-Mailman-list mail to the
> hosting company's server, or you can set your domain's MX to point to
> the hosting company server and teach it to relay all Mailman list mail
> to your server.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu May  6 03:44:25 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 10:44:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  attachments dir question
In-Reply-To: <z2vf71b9ad81005051514y725208ddk3b2d32ed0966e70c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <z2vf71b9ad81005051514y725208ddk3b2d32ed0966e70c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87eihp6bye.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Savoy, Jim writes:

 > I was wondering what it is that determines if a message has "scrubbed
 > attachments".

The options you have set for filtering and the MIME structure of the
message does.  One possible explanation of your observation is that
for some reason the first message had only a text/html part, and
Mailman scrubbed it, while the second had both text/plain and
text/html parts, so that the text/plain part was retained as is and
the text/html discarded entirely.

 > why would there be inconsistencies between the message I posted
 > just now and the one I posted 2 days ago?

Most likely, because the structures of the messages created by your
MUA were different.

To determine for sure what's going on we'd need to know the exact
settings of your content filtering options, and see the raw messages
including all headers from the
mailman/archives/private/LIST.mbox/LIST.mbox file.


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May  6 03:58:09 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 18:58:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mx Records and Mailmans use of a domain
In-Reply-To: <i2yfdaa5dfe1005051834tc6d51ca3ia289f562ad93913f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010050518580902960afdfc31@msapiro>

Ty Nelson wrote
>
>Perfect!  Thanks for letting me know those two options.  I think my last
>question is how can I teach my MTA to relay non-Mailman-list mail to the
>hosting company's server?  Is that something that is simple or should I
>contact the hosting company to inquire about that?



The answer to that depends at least in part on your MTA. Ideally you
would arrange for the MTA to just relay the non-list mail to the
hosting company's MX without altering the envelope recipient. It is
likely that the host's MX won't know how to deliver the mail if you
alter the envelope recipient. How you do this depends on your MTA.
What is it? We may be able to help if we know that, but really it's a
question for a list devoted to your MTA.

Otherwise, you could just alias user at your.domain to
user at host.mx.domain, but the host's MX probably won't know how to
deliver that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tygrrrnelson at gmail.com  Thu May  6 04:04:10 2010
From: tygrrrnelson at gmail.com (Ty Nelson)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 19:04:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mx Records and Mailmans use of a domain
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010050518580902960afdfc31@msapiro>
References: <i2yfdaa5dfe1005051834tc6d51ca3ia289f562ad93913f@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952010050518580902960afdfc31@msapiro>
Message-ID: <k2rfdaa5dfe1005051904y175ab11dudb7aff05fc3b6768@mail.gmail.com>

Hmm.

GoDaddy is the main one. Another is 1&1. I'll look into it there though, and
thanks so much.

Best,
-Tyler

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Ty Nelson wrote
> >
> >Perfect!  Thanks for letting me know those two options.  I think my last
> >question is how can I teach my MTA to relay non-Mailman-list mail to the
> >hosting company's server?  Is that something that is simple or should I
> >contact the hosting company to inquire about that?
>
>
>
> The answer to that depends at least in part on your MTA. Ideally you
> would arrange for the MTA to just relay the non-list mail to the
> hosting company's MX without altering the envelope recipient. It is
> likely that the host's MX won't know how to deliver the mail if you
> alter the envelope recipient. How you do this depends on your MTA.
> What is it? We may be able to help if we know that, but really it's a
> question for a list devoted to your MTA.
>
> Otherwise, you could just alias user at your.domain to
> user at host.mx.domain, but the host's MX probably won't know how to
> deliver that.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May  6 04:29:03 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 19:29:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mx Records and Mailmans use of a domain
In-Reply-To: <k2rfdaa5dfe1005051904y175ab11dudb7aff05fc3b6768@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005051929030656f54bf853@msapiro>

Ty Nelson wrote:
>
>GoDaddy is the main one. Another is 1&1. I'll look into it there though, and
>thanks so much.


Whan I said:

>> How you do this depends on your MTA.
>> What is it? We may be able to help if we know that, but really it's a
>> question for a list devoted to your MTA.


I was asking about the Mail Transport Agent (e.g., Exim, sendmail,
Postfix, Qmail, ???) that runs on your Mailman host and delivers Mail
to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tygrrrnelson at gmail.com  Thu May  6 04:30:36 2010
From: tygrrrnelson at gmail.com (Ty Nelson)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 19:30:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mx Records and Mailmans use of a domain
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005051929030656f54bf853@msapiro>
References: <k2rfdaa5dfe1005051904y175ab11dudb7aff05fc3b6768@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201005051929030656f54bf853@msapiro>
Message-ID: <u2zfdaa5dfe1005051930q7e6dc766m81c73e409e886551@mail.gmail.com>

Lord. Sorry. Duh.  Postfix is what I use. Sorry, long day
:)

On May 5, 2010 7:29 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

Ty Nelson wrote:
>
>GoDaddy is the main one. Another is 1&1. I'll look into it there though,
and
>th...

Whan I said:

>> How you do this depends on your MTA.
>> What is it? We may be able to help if we kn...
I was asking about the Mail Transport Agent (e.g., Exim, sendmail,
Postfix, Qmail, ???) that runs on your Mailman host and delivers Mail
to Mailman.

--

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californi...

From savoy at uleth.ca  Thu May  6 17:40:30 2010
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 09:40:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments dir question
In-Reply-To: <87eihp6bye.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <z2vf71b9ad81005051514y725208ddk3b2d32ed0966e70c@mail.gmail.com>
	<87eihp6bye.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <y2lf71b9ad81005060840zcd4be03by7c5c4d7c836532ca@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Stephen.

I was wrong - an attachment directory was indeed created for my second
message as well.
In looking at the creation dates for that list, they always seem to be
created sometime
the next day after 3:00 am. Since the only cron job I run at that time for
Mailman is
senddigests, I guess that is what creates it.

So I guess the difference between my message being scrubbed, and a message
on
another list not being scrubbed, is the MUA (as the content-filtering is the
same on
all of our lists (ie never touched from the original defaults)). And because
filter_content
is set to NO on all lists, I don't imagine we're doing any filtering anyway.

As for the listname.mbox file, there isn't one. That directory has always
been empty.
The attachments dfirectory is very large though.

 - jim -



On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>wrote:

> Savoy, Jim writes:
>
>  > I was wondering what it is that determines if a message has "scrubbed
>  > attachments".
>
> The options you have set for filtering and the MIME structure of the
> message does.  One possible explanation of your observation is that
> for some reason the first message had only a text/html part, and
> Mailman scrubbed it, while the second had both text/plain and
> text/html parts, so that the text/plain part was retained as is and
> the text/html discarded entirely.
>
>  > why would there be inconsistencies between the message I posted
>  > just now and the one I posted 2 days ago?
>
> Most likely, because the structures of the messages created by your
> MUA were different.
>
> To determine for sure what's going on we'd need to know the exact
> settings of your content filtering options, and see the raw messages
> including all headers from the
> mailman/archives/private/LIST.mbox/LIST.mbox file.
>
>

From chris-barnes at tamu.edu  Thu May  6 17:38:26 2010
From: chris-barnes at tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 10:38:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] script to remove users
Message-ID: <4BE2E272.8020003@tamu.edu>

At the end of each semester, I have a list of 30 or so userids of 
students who are leaving.  Before I write my own shell script, I thought 
I would see if I could prevent myself from reinventing the wheel and see 
if someone else has a script to do this.

So, does anyone have a script which will read a given filename, and 
issues the command:

remove_members --fromall -n -N $uid@*


?

-- 
Chris Barnes                           AOL IM: CNBarnes
chris-barnes at tamu.edu                Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes
Computer Systems Manager               MSN IM: chris at txbarnes.com
Department of Physics                      ph: 979-845-1379
Texas A&M University                      fax: 979-845-2590

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May  6 18:01:47 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 09:01:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments dir question
In-Reply-To: <y2lf71b9ad81005060840zcd4be03by7c5c4d7c836532ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005060901470375d081ca66@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>I was wrong - an attachment directory was indeed created for my second
>message as well.
>In looking at the creation dates for that list, they always seem to be
>created sometime
>the next day after 3:00 am. Since the only cron job I run at that time for
>Mailman is
>senddigests, I guess that is what creates it.


Yes, The message contains a non-text/plain part or a text/plain part
other that the default body with an unspecified character set and this
part is scrubbed for the plain format digest.

You'll get more information from the digest itself.


[...]
>As for the listname.mbox file, there isn't one. That directory has always
>been empty.


So either the lists are set to not archive or ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX is set to
something other than 1 or 2 in mm_cfg.py.


>The attachments dfirectory is very large though.


Because of all the parts scrubbed from the plain digest. Note that this
will be done as long as the list is digestable even if no one is
subscribed to the plain digest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May  6 18:05:05 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 09:05:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] script to remove users
In-Reply-To: <4BE2E272.8020003@tamu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC195201005060905050609d081cb26@msapiro>

Chris Barnes wrote:
>
>So, does anyone have a script which will read a given filename, and 
>issues the command:
>
>remove_members --fromall -n -N $uid@*


How about

remove_members --fromall -n -N -f filename

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From chris-barnes at tamu.edu  Thu May  6 18:18:37 2010
From: chris-barnes at tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 11:18:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] script to remove users
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005060905050609d081cb26@msapiro>
References: <PC195201005060905050609d081cb26@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BE2EBDD.7080203@tamu.edu>

On 5/6/2010 11:05 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Chris Barnes wrote:
>>
>> So, does anyone have a script which will read a given filename, and
>> issues the command:
>>
>> remove_members --fromall -n -N $uid@*
>
>
> How about
>
> remove_members --fromall -n -N -f filename


Excellent!  Now if I could figure out how to wildcard that address. 
There are 2 email address formats that could be used here, and I want to 
make sure to get them both...


userid at physics.tamu.edu
userid at tamu.edu


-- 
Chris Barnes                           AOL IM: CNBarnes
chris-barnes at tamu.edu                Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes
Computer Systems Manager               MSN IM: chris at txbarnes.com
Department of Physics                      ph: 979-845-1379
Texas A&M University                      fax: 979-845-2590

From b19141 at anl.gov  Thu May  6 18:32:34 2010
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Thu,  6 May 2010 11:32:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] script to remove users
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Chris Barnes <chris-barnes@tamu.edu>'
	dated: Thu, 06 May 2010 11:18:37 -0500
Message-ID: <20100506163234.136B4401A0@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

>Excellent!  Now if I could figure out how to wildcard that address. 
>There are 2 email address formats that could be used here, and I want to 
>make sure to get them both...
>
>
>userid at physics.tamu.edu
>userid at tamu.edu

Take the file that contains the userids, and edit it.
Make two pieces.  Append "@physics.tamu.edu" to the first half,
and append "@tamu.edu" to the second half.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 240, Room 5.B.8             Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From kibirango_moses at yahoo.co.uk  Fri May  7 08:43:18 2010
From: kibirango_moses at yahoo.co.uk (Kibirango Moses)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 06:43:18 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unable to reply Mailman Administrator
Message-ID: <25878.61787.qm@web24002.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

I am unable to reply Mailman Administrator , how best can i fix this problem the output i get is below


The message WAS NOT relayed to:<name at domain name>:
[127.0.0.1] said:554 5.4.0 Failed, id=21662-04, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025):
554 5.4.0 Error: too many hops
 
This nondelivery report was generated by the program
amavisd-new at host mail.mak.ac.ug. Our internal reference code for your
message is 21662-04/EUHGsEqR1cWQ
 
Undeliverable mail MTA blocked


My smtp-failure mailman logs show the output below:

Low level smtp error: [Errno111] Connection refused, msgid:  <mailman.0.1272542181.3599.apr at muklists.mak.ac.ug>delivery
to apr at dicts.mak.ac.ug failed with code -1: [Errno 111] Connection refused



      

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May  7 16:03:28 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 07:03:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unable to reply Mailman Administrator
In-Reply-To: <25878.61787.qm@web24002.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <25878.61787.qm@web24002.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4BE41DB0.2000506@msapiro.net>

On 5/6/2010 11:43 PM, Kibirango Moses wrote:
> I am unable to reply Mailman Administrator , how best can i fix this
> problem the output i get is below
> 
> The message WAS NOT relayed to:<name at domain name>: [127.0.0.1] said:554
> 5.4.0 Failed, id=21662-04, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 554 5.4.0 Error:
> too many hops


Your mail system is mis-configured in some way. I can only guess, but it
looks like you may have circular aliases for this address, whatever it
is, i.e., this address is aliased to some other address which directly
or indirectly is aliased back to this address.


> This nondelivery report was generated by the program amavisd-new at host
> mail.mak.ac.ug. Our internal reference code for your message is
> 21662-04/EUHGsEqR1cWQ
> 
>  
> 
> Undeliverable mail MTA blocked
> 
> 
> 
> My smtp-failure mailman logs show the output below:
> 
> 
> Low level smtp error: [Errno111] Connection refused, msgid: 
> <mailman.0.1272542181.3599.apr at muklists.mak.ac.ug>delivery to
> apr at dicts.mak.ac.ug failed with code -1: [Errno 111] Connection refused


This looks relatively benign, and I don't think it is related to the
above error. The message-id indicates this is a message generated by
Mailman (either a notice, a confirmation or a digest) on behalf of the
apr at muklists.mak.ac.ug list and it is being sent to a similar address,
apr at dicts.mak.ac.ug which presumably doesn't deliver back to the list
(it would be a problem if it did, but not the cause of the error).

If this is a persistent error, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9> for some debugging hints, but it basically
says Mailman was unable to connect to the outgoing MTA to send this
message. If it is persistent, the MTA that mailman is sending to
(probably on localhost:25) is not accepting connects from the Mailman
server (again probably localhost), and Mailman can't send mail at all.
If it is transient, it may be associated with an MTA restart or
something of that nature and can be ignored.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From subads at gmail.com  Fri May  7 19:56:45 2010
From: subads at gmail.com (c cc)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 12:56:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected
Message-ID: <z2ld9b274611005071056x4c8d09a5j579d1d6f3df267c3@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

We have about 30 mailing lists on our Mailman using Postfix and all
the lists and emails are working fine, except one list. In this
particular list, we receive the following message below whenever we
try to send a message to the list.
We could subscribe and receive subscription confirmation, but only
when we try to send a message to the list. Does anyone know have any
idea what the problem is? Thanks!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded:
5.1.1 <list123 at example.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown
in local recipient table. Please check the message recipient
list123 at example.com and try again.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May  8 17:55:36 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 08:55:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected
In-Reply-To: <z2ld9b274611005071056x4c8d09a5j579d1d6f3df267c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005080855360765fa7ec821@msapiro>

c cc wrote:
>
>We have about 30 mailing lists on our Mailman using Postfix and all
>the lists and emails are working fine, except one list. In this
>particular list, we receive the following message below whenever we
>try to send a message to the list.
>We could subscribe and receive subscription confirmation, but only
>when we try to send a message to the list. Does anyone know have any
>idea what the problem is? Thanks!
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded:
>5.1.1 <list123 at example.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown
>in local recipient table. Please check the message recipient
>list123 at example.com and try again.
>------------------------------------------------------


You don't have aliases for this list (or at least for the posting
address). If you handle list aliases manually, you need to add them.
If you have Mailman/Postfix integration set up so Mailman
automatically maintains aliases for Postfix, run Mailman's
bin/genaliases to resync the aliases with the lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Sat May  8 22:05:04 2010
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 15:05:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This should not have happened
Message-ID: <1273349104.10873.41.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>

I have a local Mailman (2.1.12) list hosting customer who sends out
weekly HTML email from her business to her list from a couple of
different computers.  Normally this goes without a hitch, but today we
had a problem.  

This particular HTML email sent to the list had a master MIME
Content-Type of multipart/mixed.  Mailman apparently put the message
itself into an inner envelope with a Content-Type of
multipart/alternative (probably as designated by the posting software)
with two parts containing the text/plain and text/html parts of the
source message.  The other part of the outer multipart/mixed envelope is
a text/plain list server signature, as expected.

The poster used an "Approved" pseudo-header.  Mailman found the
pseudo-header in the text/plain part, removed it, and approved the post
for distribution.  However in the text/html portion, the pseudo-header
was mucked up with markup and was apparently unrecognizable to Mailman.
It shows up in the message source as:

<p style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Arial">Approved: =
=A0Hon94Bar</p>

For rather obvious reasons, Mailman didn't find this rendition of the
pseudo-header, but because it found the Approved pseudo-header in the
text/plain portion, it distributed the message - with the administrator
password clearly displayed to the subscriber list for everyone with an
HTML-capable mail reader to see!  Now this (very technically challenged)
customer has to change her list admin password and I have to work with
her to insure that this won't happen again.

HTML-ized email is a real PITA, and we've had problems with the
pseudo-header before.  It seems to me that if a submitted email has both
a text/plain and a text/html part, Mailman should look _first_ for the
pseudo-header in the text/html portion, and if it's not found there, the
post should be rejected at that point even if the pseudo-header is
clearly present in a text/plain part. These two sections are supposed to
be identical as far as content goes, or at least we can expect Mailman
to assume that they are.

How can this be prevented?  As far as I'm concerned, this is a bug.

And please, folks, don't anyone lecture me on how sending HTML email to
a list is a Bad Idea.  I know this, and I explain it to my customers,
however if they insist on using it I either have to support it with
Mailman or lose a customer.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Real programmers use butterflies"
FMP Computer Services |  - xkcd
512-259-1190          |
http://www.fmp.com    |



From fmouse at fmp.com  Sat May  8 22:03:56 2010
From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 15:03:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This should not have happened
Message-ID: <1273349036.10873.40.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>

I have a local Mailman (2.1.12) list hosting customer who sends out
weekly HTML email from her business to her list from a couple of
different computers.  Normally this goes without a hitch, but today we
had a problem.  

This particular HTML email sent to the list had a master MIME
Content-Type of multipart/mixed.  Mailman apparently put the message
itself into an inner envelope with a Content-Type of
multipart/alternative (probably as designated by the posting software)
with two parts containing the text/plain and text/html parts of the
source message.  The other part of the outer multipart/mixed envelope is
a text/plain list server signature, as expected.

The poster used an "Approved" pseudo-header.  Mailman found the
pseudo-header in the text/plain part, removed it, and approved the post
for distribution.  However in the text/html portion, the pseudo-header
was mucked up with markup and was apparently unrecognizable to Mailman.
It shows up in the message source as:

<p style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Arial">Approved: =
=A0Hon94Bar</p>

For rather obvious reasons, Mailman didn't find this rendition of the
pseudo-header, but because it found the Approved pseudo-header in the
text/plain portion, it distributed the message - with the administrator
password clearly displayed to the subscriber list for everyone with an
HTML-capable mail reader to see!  Now this (very technically challenged)
customer has to change her list admin password and I have to work with
her to insure that this won't happen again.

HTML-ized email is a real PITA, and we've had problems with the
pseudo-header before.  It seems to me that if a submitted email has both
a text/plain and a text/html part, Mailman should look _first_ for the
pseudo-header in the text/html portion, and if it's not found there, the
post should be rejected at that point even if the pseudo-header is
clearly present in a text/plain part. These two sections are supposed to
be identical as far as content goes, or at least we can expect Mailman
to assume that they are.

How can this be prevented?  As far as I'm concerned, this is a bug.

And please, folks, don't anyone lecture me on how sending HTML email to
a list is a Bad Idea.  I know this, and I explain it to my customers,
however if they insist on using it I either have to support it with
Mailman or lose a customer.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Real programmers use butterflies"
FMP Computer Services |  - xkcd
512-259-1190          |
http://www.fmp.com    |



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May  8 23:38:45 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 14:38:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This should not have happened
In-Reply-To: <1273349104.10873.41.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
References: <1273349104.10873.41.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <4BE5D9E5.50308@msapiro.net>

On 5/8/2010 1:05 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> 
> The poster used an "Approved" pseudo-header.  Mailman found the
> pseudo-header in the text/plain part, removed it, and approved the post
> for distribution.  However in the text/html portion, the pseudo-header
> was mucked up with markup and was apparently unrecognizable to Mailman.
> It shows up in the message source as:
> 
> <p style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Arial">Approved: =
> =A0Hon94Bar</p>
> 
> For rather obvious reasons, Mailman didn't find this rendition of the
> pseudo-header, but because it found the Approved pseudo-header in the
> text/plain portion, it distributed the message - with the administrator
> password clearly displayed to the subscriber list for everyone with an
> HTML-capable mail reader to see!  Now this (very technically challenged)
> customer has to change her list admin password and I have to work with
> her to insure that this won't happen again.
> 
> HTML-ized email is a real PITA, and we've had problems with the
> pseudo-header before.  It seems to me that if a submitted email has both
> a text/plain and a text/html part, Mailman should look _first_ for the
> pseudo-header in the text/html portion, and if it's not found there, the
> post should be rejected at that point even if the pseudo-header is
> clearly present in a text/plain part. These two sections are supposed to
> be identical as far as content goes, or at least we can expect Mailman
> to assume that they are.
> 
> How can this be prevented?  As far as I'm concerned, this is a bug.


It is a bug, <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/266220>.

My comments in the code say

# MAS: Bug 1181161 - Now try all the text parts in case it's
# multipart/alternative with the approved line in HTML or other
# text part.  We make a pattern from the Approved line and delete
# it from all text/* parts in which we find it.  It would be
# better to just iterate forward, but email compatability for pre
# Python 2.2 returns a list, not a true iterator.
#
# This will process all the multipart/alternative parts in the
# message as well as all other text parts.  We shouldn't find the
# pattern outside the mp/a parts, but if we do, it is probably
# best to delete it anyway as it does contain the password.
#
# Make a pattern to delete.  We can't just delete a line because
# line of HTML or other fancy text may include additional message
# text.  This pattern works with HTML.  It may not work with rtf
# or whatever else is possible.


So the question is why does this fail in this case. The HTML part is
clearly QP encoded, but we decode that and it decodes to

<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Arial">Approved:
\xA0Hon94Bar</p>

Where the \xA0 is the hex representation of the actual character which
is a no-break space.

The issue is that the pattern constructed in this case is

  'Approved:(\s|&nbsp;)*Hon94Bar'

and the re.sub(pattern, '', lines) (where lines is the message body)
does not consider \xA0 to match \s.

This is clearly a deficiency in the code, but there are two underlying
issues:

1) the user double spaced between the Approved: and the password, and
2) the user's MUA encoded the two spaces as a space followed by a
no-break space for the HTML part but it represented the no-break space
as a raw character code instead of the HTML entity &nbsp;

Had either of the above conditions not been true, the Approved: password
would have been removed.

I will modify the code to add \xA0 to make the pattern
'Approved:(\xA0|\s|&nbsp;)*Hon94Bar' in this case, which will work for
this one and future ones like it, but I won't follow your suggestion to
check the HTML first. I think this is unworkable without implementing an
HTML rendering engine, and would likely be no different, at least in
some cases, from just not checking for the pseudo-header in the message
body at all.

Note that we have never guaranteed removal of the pseudo-header from
alternative parts, and if asked, I always recommend a true message
header for this purpose.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Sun May  9 00:11:52 2010
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 17:11:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This should not have happened
In-Reply-To: <4BE5D9E5.50308@msapiro.net>
References: <1273349104.10873.41.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
	<4BE5D9E5.50308@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1273356713.21473.15.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>

On Sat, 2010-05-08 at 14:38 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I will modify the code to add \xA0 to make the pattern
> 'Approved:(\xA0|\s|&nbsp;)*Hon94Bar' in this case, which will work for
> this one and future ones like it,

Where will this patch show up?  Since I'm running the standard issue
gentoo linux Mailman, I may want to apply it manually to the existing
code on my servers.  If you tell me what file(s) the regexp is found in,
I can probably make the code mod from what you've given me here.

>  but I won't follow your suggestion to
> check the HTML first. I think this is unworkable without implementing an
> HTML rendering engine, and would likely be no different, at least in
> some cases, from just not checking for the pseudo-header in the message
> body at all.

Well you're probably right in this.  In this case, I can tell my
customer to be sure to only add ONE space between "Approved:" and the
password, since the double space triggered the error in this case.
Applying the fix you describe above will solve the problem going
forward.

> Note that we have never guaranteed removal of the pseudo-header from
> alternative parts, and if asked, I always recommend a true message
> header for this purpose.

This is well and good, Mark, except that in my experience there are very
few mail clients out there these days that enable the introduction of
arbitrary true message headers into an email, so this solution, while
ideal from the point of view of Mailman, is impractical in real-world
situations.  Most of my list hosting clients are pretty non-tech and are
using Apple Mail, MSOE, T-bird or something similar.  I'm using
Evolution, which is a cut above most consumer-grade mail clients, and to
the best of my knowledge it doesn't enable this.  The last mail client I
used which _did_ was mutt.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | SUPPORT NETWORK NEUTRALITY
FMP Computer Services | --------------------------
512-259-1190          | Boycott Yahoo, RoadRunner, AOL
http://www.fmp.com    | and Verison


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May  9 01:38:09 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 16:38:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This should not have happened
In-Reply-To: <1273356713.21473.15.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
References: <1273349104.10873.41.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>	<4BE5D9E5.50308@msapiro.net>
	<1273356713.21473.15.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <4BE5F5E1.2060903@msapiro.net>

On 5/8/2010 3:11 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> On Sat, 2010-05-08 at 14:38 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> I will modify the code to add \xA0 to make the pattern
>> 'Approved:(\xA0|\s|&nbsp;)*Hon94Bar' in this case, which will work for
>> this one and future ones like it,
> 
> Where will this patch show up?  Since I'm running the standard issue
> gentoo linux Mailman, I may want to apply it manually to the existing
> code on my servers.  If you tell me what file(s) the regexp is found in,
> I can probably make the code mod from what you've given me here.


The patch will be in the 2.1 branch in Launchpad within a few days if
not sooner, but it is also attached to this mail as Approve.patch.txt.
It will be released in 2.1.14.


>> Note that we have never guaranteed removal of the pseudo-header from
>> alternative parts, and if asked, I always recommend a true message
>> header for this purpose.
> 
> This is well and good, Mark, except that in my experience there are very
> few mail clients out there these days that enable the introduction of
> arbitrary true message headers into an email, so this solution, while
> ideal from the point of view of Mailman, is impractical in real-world
> situations.  Most of my list hosting clients are pretty non-tech and are
> using Apple Mail, MSOE, T-bird or something similar.  I'm using
> Evolution, which is a cut above most consumer-grade mail clients, and to
> the best of my knowledge it doesn't enable this.  The last mail client I
> used which _did_ was mutt.


T-bird supports this. Go to Tools -> Options -> Advanced -> Config
Editor and set mail.compose.other.header. In my case, I have
Approved,Urgent which gives me the both Approved: and Urgent: header
choices in addition to the standard To:, Cc:, Bcc:, Reply-To:,
Newsgroup: and Followup-To: in the composition window.

I have never figured out how to do this in MSOE, and I haven't tried
with Apple Mail, and I don't know Evolution at all.

One thing you could try is bookmarking a link like

  mailto:mylist at example.com?approved=password

which should work, but those clients I've tried it with ignore it.

If putting in a real header is not practical, there's always post
approving the post via the web UI.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: Approve.patch.txt
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100508/bebe3af2/attachment.txt>

From fmouse at fmp.com  Sun May  9 01:49:04 2010
From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 18:49:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This should not have happened
In-Reply-To: <4BE5F5E1.2060903@msapiro.net>
References: <1273349104.10873.41.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
	<4BE5D9E5.50308@msapiro.net> <1273356713.21473.15.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
	<4BE5F5E1.2060903@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1273362544.21473.62.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>

On Sat, 2010-05-08 at 16:38 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> The patch will be in the 2.1 branch in Launchpad within a few days if
> not sooner, but it is also attached to this mail as Approve.patch.txt.
> It will be released in 2.1.14.

Thanks!!

> T-bird supports this. Go to Tools -> Options -> Advanced -> Config
> Editor and set mail.compose.other.header. In my case, I have
> Approved,Urgent which gives me the both Approved: and Urgent: header
> choices in addition to the standard To:, Cc:, Bcc:, Reply-To:,
> Newsgroup: and Followup-To: in the composition window.

This is good to know!  List hosting clients of FMP predominantly use
gmail or MSOE, and we have a few Mac users.

> One thing you could try is bookmarking a link like
> 
>   mailto:mylist at example.com?approved=password
> 
> which should work, but those clients I've tried it with ignore it.

Yep!  I don't think it's supported by mail standards.

> If putting in a real header is not practical, there's always post
> approving the post via the web UI.

Yes, this works.

The other alternative, of course, is for them to un-moderate the list
posters who have the authority to post to their distribution list and
not use a header or pseudo-header at all.  None of the lists I host are
high-security lists, nor are they exposed to the degree that they're
likely to be exploited by spammers.

In this particular case, I informed my customer that she had put a
double-space in her pseudo-header and cautioned her to be careful about
this going forward.  She's been operating her list successfully for the
better part of a year, and I really don't want to have her change the
way she works with it.  It was hard enough getting her up to speed with
it in the first place.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Everything works if you let it"
FMP Computer Services |   (The Roadie)
512-259-1190          |
http://www.fmp.com    |


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May  9 02:27:26 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 17:27:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This should not have happened
In-Reply-To: <1273362544.21473.62.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
References: <1273349104.10873.41.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>	<4BE5D9E5.50308@msapiro.net>
	<1273356713.21473.15.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>	<4BE5F5E1.2060903@msapiro.net>
	<1273362544.21473.62.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <4BE6016E.3030501@msapiro.net>

On 5/8/2010 4:49 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> On Sat, 2010-05-08 at 16:38 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>> One thing you could try is bookmarking a link like
>>
>>   mailto:mylist at example.com?approved=password
>>
>> which should work, but those clients I've tried it with ignore it.
> 
> Yep!  I don't think it's supported by mail standards.


Yes and No. RFC 2368 is clear that any header=value is allowable as long
as header is an RFC 822 header name. Since RFC 822 allows
"extension-field" and "user-defined-field", this allows pretty much
anything, But RFC 2368 also says

4. Unsafe headers

   The user agent interpreting a mailto URL SHOULD choose not to create
   a message if any of the headers are considered dangerous; it may also
   choose to create a message with only a subset of the headers given in
   the URL.  Only the Subject, Keywords, and Body headers are believed
   to be both safe and useful.

   The creator of a mailto URL cannot expect the resolver of a URL to
   understand more than the "subject" and "body" headers. Clients that
   resolve mailto URLs into mail messages should be able to correctly
   create RFC 822-compliant mail messages using the "subject" and "body"
   headers.

which effectively gives clients free reign to ignore all but subject=
and body=, although I think most honor at least in-reply-to= and
references=.


> In this particular case, I informed my customer that she had put a
> double-space in her pseudo-header and cautioned her to be careful about
> this going forward.  She's been operating her list successfully for the
> better part of a year, and I really don't want to have her change the
> way she works with it.  It was hard enough getting her up to speed with
> it in the first place.


Understood

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Sun May  9 02:48:00 2010
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 19:48:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This should not have happened
In-Reply-To: <4BE6016E.3030501@msapiro.net>
References: <1273349104.10873.41.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
	<4BE5D9E5.50308@msapiro.net> <1273356713.21473.15.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
	<4BE5F5E1.2060903@msapiro.net>
	<1273362544.21473.62.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
	<4BE6016E.3030501@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1273366080.21473.79.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>

On Sat, 2010-05-08 at 17:27 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> which effectively gives clients free reign to ignore all but subject=
> and body=, although I think most honor at least in-reply-to= and
> references=.

<rant>
I don't know of any Internet services (except maybe Microsoft's
implementation of HTTP/HTML) where the implementations play faster and
looser with RFC-based standards than the protocols around email!  The
war against spam has spawned a great plethora of half-baked,
RFC-stretching (or RFC-violating) behaviors in both clients and servers!
It's a wonder to me that Internet email works _at all_ and it's a
tribute to Crocker, Resnick and all the rest of the engineers who
designed the services and wrote the RFCs that it has endured and
continues to function despite this kind of rampant abuse.
</rant>

I do, of course have to recommend the least common denominator to list
hosting customers, and hew to the dictates of Occam's Razor :-)
Whatever solution is both simplest and most reliable is the appropriate
one in this case.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Everything works if you let it"
FMP Computer Services |   (The Roadie)
512-259-1190          |
http://www.fmp.com    |


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Sun May  9 03:51:00 2010
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 20:51:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This should not have happened
In-Reply-To: <4BE5F5E1.2060903@msapiro.net>
References: <1273349104.10873.41.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
	<4BE5D9E5.50308@msapiro.net> <1273356713.21473.15.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
	<4BE5F5E1.2060903@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1273369860.25757.16.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>

On Sat, 2010-05-08 at 16:38 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I have never figured out how to do this in MSOE, and I haven't tried
> with Apple Mail, and I don't know Evolution at all.

For Evolution, one has to edit the per-account gconf key apps|evolution|
eplugin|email_custom_header|customHeader.  You can create a custom
header with a specific set of possible values (not a general text entry
field, as far as I can determine).  In the message composition window,
the Insert|Custom Header menu item displays a dialog with the custom
headers contained in the gconf db shown, and a drop-down list of
possible values by each one.  Thus, one could configure a true
"Approved:" header and assign the passwords to all the lists for which
one needs them to its drop-down list.

You can change these, of course, with the Gnome gconf configuration
editor, a process that's pretty geeky but not very difficult.  It's kind
of like editing the registry in MS Windows, and not that different from
the about:config db in T-bird, although T-bird does have the advantage
that it presents a text entry field for custom headers rather than a
list of pre-configured values from which to select.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "We have met the enemy, and it is us."
FMP Computer Services |
512-259-1190          |          -- Pogo
http://www.fmp.com    |



From till.kleisli at gmx.ch  Sun May  9 00:57:53 2010
From: till.kleisli at gmx.ch (Till Kleisli)
Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 00:57:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation by reply doesn't work
Message-ID: <4BE5EC71.6040803@gmx.ch>

Hi all

When a user wants to subscribe to my mailinglist, the user gets the 
confirmation mail, to confirm the subscription.

Then, when the user just replies to the mail (using thunderbird), the 
list administrator (me) gets a mail that says, a new user subscribed to 
the mailing list, but when I go to the backend (administration), the 
user is not in the list of recipients!

If the user clicks on the link in the confirmation mail and confirms the 
subscription in the web form, he appears in the recipients list!

I didn't find any report in the web about users having the same problem..

can someone help me?

best regards
Till

PS: I had the same problem subscribing to this mailing list, may be it's 
me.. :-/ when I replied to the message nothing happened, and when I 
confirmed on the webpage, I got the confirmation back immediately..

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Sun May  9 23:00:30 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 17:00:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005050712250515612ae7dc@msapiro>
References: <PC195201005050712250515612ae7dc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BE7226E.5050401@libertytrek.org>

On 2010-05-05 10:12 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Please let us know how this goes. I will need to revise that FAQ.

Ok, apologies for the delay, but I didn't get to this until now...

It went smooth as silk and everything is running fine, but I have one
minor question.

Here's a log entry for a test delivery after the changes:

1. May  9 16:39:35 myhost postfix/smtpd[21517]: connect from
my.client.example.com[###.###.###.###]
2. May  9 16:39:35 myhost postfix/smtpd[21517]: AE6D7621142:
client=my.client.example.com[###.###.###.###], sasl_method=PLAIN,
sasl_username=myuser at example.com
3. May  9 16:39:35 myhost postfix/cleanup[21523]: AE6D7621142:
message-id=<4BE71D87.6030805 at example.com>
4. May  9 16:39:35 myhost postfix/qmgr[21380]: AE6D7621142:
from=<Me at Example.com>, size=852, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
5. May  9 16:39:35 myhost postfix/local[21525]: AE6D7621142:
to=<listname at smtp.example.com>, orig_to=<ListName at Example.com>,
relay=local, delay=0.24, delays=0.03/0.01/0/0.2, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent
(delivered to command: /usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post listname)
6. May  9 16:39:35 moria postfix/qmgr[21380]: AE6D7621142: removed
7. May  9 16:39:36 moria postfix/smtpd[21517]: disconnect from
my.client.example.com[###.###.###.###]

My question is about line #5 above:

5. May  9 16:39:35 myhost postfix/local[21525]: AE6D7621142:
to=<listname at smtp.example.com>, orig_to=<ListName at Example.com>,
relay=local, delay=0.24, delays=0.03/0.01/0/0.2, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent
(delivered to command: /usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post listname)

Why is it listname at smtp.example.com instead of listname at lists.example.com?

smtp.example.com is the postfix hostname, so I'm sure that's where it's
coming from, and it isn't a big deal, but for some reason I thought that
it would use the URL subdomain? No worries if it isn't trivial to change
this so it uses lists.example.com, but thats what I'd prefer...

Profuse thanks again to you Mark for being willing to bang this out with me!

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May  9 23:29:41 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 14:29:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <4BE7226E.5050401@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952010050914294109069cbcdcf3@msapiro>

Tanstaafl wrote:
>
>It went smooth as silk and everything is running fine, but I have one
>minor question.


Thanks for the report.


>My question is about line #5 above:
>
>5. May  9 16:39:35 myhost postfix/local[21525]: AE6D7621142:
>to=<listname at smtp.example.com>, orig_to=<ListName at Example.com>,
>relay=local, delay=0.24, delays=0.03/0.01/0/0.2, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent
>(delivered to command: /usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post listname)
>
>Why is it listname at smtp.example.com instead of listname at lists.example.com?
>
>smtp.example.com is the postfix hostname, so I'm sure that's where it's
>coming from, and it isn't a big deal, but for some reason I thought that
>it would use the URL subdomain? No worries if it isn't trivial to change
>this so it uses lists.example.com, but thats what I'd prefer...


Postfix knows nothing about your Mailman configuration.

The virtual mapping in data/virtual-mailman has the entry

listname at example.com   listname

which maps listname at example.com to the local name listname which in
turn is aliased to "|/usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post listname".

listname is a local name and Postfix appends the name of the local host
(myhostname) for the log message.

I think you could change it by doing both of the following:

Make sure lists.example.com is in Postfix mydestination so postfix
thinks it's a local domain.

Patch Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py so it appends '@lists.example.com' to all
the virtual mappings so instead of

listname at example.com   listname
etc.

in virtual-mailman, you have

listname at example.com   listname at lists.example.com
etc.

Note that I have never done exactly this, so I'm not totally certain it
will do what you want, but I think it will. I also think it probably
isn't worth maintaining a non-standard patch to do it, but only you
can answer that for yourself.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May  9 23:58:38 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 14:58:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation by reply doesn't work
In-Reply-To: <4BE5EC71.6040803@gmx.ch>
Message-ID: <PC195201005091458380234f4dfb250@msapiro>

Till Kleisli wrote:
>
>When a user wants to subscribe to my mailinglist, the user gets the 
>confirmation mail, to confirm the subscription.
>
>Then, when the user just replies to the mail (using thunderbird), the 
>list administrator (me) gets a mail that says, a new user subscribed to 
>the mailing list, but when I go to the backend (administration), the 
>user is not in the list of recipients!


Prior to Mailman 2.1.10, there was a bug in cmd_confirm.py that could
throw a UnicodeError exception in processing a confirmation email. It
would confirm the subscription which sends the admin notice and then
throw the exception in scanning the message body. This would cause
CommandRunner to not save the updated list.

You should find errors and tracebacks in Mailman's error log.

If this is the problem, this patch (or upgrading Mailman) will fix it.

--- Mailman/Commands/cmd_confirm.py     2005-12-30 18:50:08 +0000
+++ Mailman/Commands/cmd_confirm.py     2008-02-18 18:48:16 +0000
@@ -90,8 +90,11 @@
             match = 'confirm ' + cookie
             unprocessed = []
             for line in res.commands:
-                if line.lstrip() == match:
-                    continue
+                try:
+                    if line.lstrip() == match:
+                        continue
+                except UnicodeError:
+                    pass
                 unprocessed.append(line)
             res.commands = unprocessed
     # Process just one confirmation string per message



>PS: I had the same problem subscribing to this mailing list, may be it's 
>me.. :-/ when I replied to the message nothing happened, and when I 
>confirmed on the webpage, I got the confirmation back immediately..


I just successfully subscribed and confirmed a subscription to this
list by email, so I don't see a problem there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Mon May 10 06:35:23 2010
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 22:35:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This should not have happened
In-Reply-To: <4BE5D9E5.50308@msapiro.net>
References: <1273349104.10873.41.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
	<4BE5D9E5.50308@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <D2EBE813-273A-48F7-8255-C37CCBCDF58C@kreme.com>

On 8-May-2010, at 15:38, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> 'Approved:(\s|&nbsp;)*Hon94Bar'

how about

Approved:([^<])*Password

when searching the HTML portion?

Or do you have to have the same search string for all portions?

-- 
ALL WORK AND NO PLAY MAKES BART A DULL BOY ALL WORK AND NO PLAY MAKES
BART A DULL BOY ALL WORK AND NO PLAY MAKES BART A DULL BOY Bart
chalkboard Ep. 1F07


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Mon May 10 12:47:17 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 06:47:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010050914294109069cbcdcf3@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010050914294109069cbcdcf3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BE7E435.5090004@libertytrek.org>

On 2010-05-09 5:29 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Note that I have never done exactly this, so I'm not totally certain it
> will do what you want, but I think it will. I also think it probably
> isn't worth maintaining a non-standard patch to do it, but only you
> can answer that for yourself.

I wouldn't mind adding the local domain in postfix, but definitely don't
want to mess with patching MM myself and maintaining it. It's really
only a cosmetic problem anyway that most likely no one else will ever
see (how many people ever look at full headers?)...

That said, any chance that MM3 can/will provide a way to do this?
Something like a DEFAULT_LIST_HOST option?

From lee_d at aps.edu  Mon May 10 18:38:27 2010
From: lee_d at aps.edu (Lee, Davis H)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 10:38:27 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] URL changes
Message-ID: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F90976F7A5@EX02.aps.edu.actd>

TIA,

 

As a part of a migration from OS X to Ubuntu, our list addresses changed
from something like  

http://lists.example.pri/mailman/admindb/list_name

to something like 

http://lists.example.pri/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/list_name


where the /cgi-bin/ is now listed.  

 

In two places these changes are not coming through, the signatures on
the sent mail and the management links sent out to list moderators.

 

 

Please provide tips on how to change these.

 

 

Thank you,

 

Davis Lee

 

WAN Administrator

Albuquerque Public Schools

505 830 6870

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 10 19:19:15 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 10:19:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] URL changes
In-Reply-To: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F90976F7A5@EX02.aps.edu.actd>
Message-ID: <PC195201005101019150640d750e44f@msapiro>

Lee, Davis H wrote:
>
>As a part of a migration from OS X to Ubuntu, our list addresses changed
>from something like  
>
>http://lists.example.pri/mailman/admindb/list_name
>
>to something like 
>
>http://lists.example.pri/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/list_name
>
>
>where the /cgi-bin/ is now listed.  
>
> 
>
>In two places these changes are not coming through, the signatures on
>the sent mail and the management links sent out to list moderators.


Only those two places? It should be everywhere


>Please provide tips on how to change these.


Make sure you have

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'

in mm_cfg.py. Then run fix_url. Also, make sure that msg_footer and
digest_footer contain text like

%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s

rather than a fixed URL

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 10 21:36:29 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 12:36:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mx Records and Mailmans use of a domain
In-Reply-To: <u2zfdaa5dfe1005051930q7e6dc766m81c73e409e886551@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005101236290468acf139f1@msapiro>

Ty Nelson wrote:
>
>Lord. Sorry. Duh.  Postfix is what I use. Sorry, long day
>:)


I don't know off hand how to to what you want in Postfix and no one
else has jumped in, so I suggest you ask the question on a Postfix
list. The question is:

Mailman generates alias_maps for delivering it's list mail to
appropriate pipe commands and can if necessary generate
virtual_alias_maps to map 'list at example.com' to the local address
'list' which is in alias_maps.

How do I configure Postfix to accept and deliver this Mailman list mail
as it is currently doing via alias_maps and at the same time, relay
mail for other (non-mailman) example.com addresses to an external MX?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 10 23:03:36 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 14:03:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This should not have happened
In-Reply-To: <D2EBE813-273A-48F7-8255-C37CCBCDF58C@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005101403360109204eed91@msapiro>

LuKreme wrote:

>On 8-May-2010, at 15:38, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> 'Approved:(\s|&nbsp;)*Hon94Bar'
>
>how about
>
>Approved:([^<])*Password
>
>when searching the HTML portion?
>
>Or do you have to have the same search string for all portions?


No, I don't have to use the same pattern for all parts, but it's
already enough of a kludge. It would probably be better to optionally
define a special syntax to be used in the Subject: header for this
purpose.

If I were going to change the pattern beyond adding \xA0, I'd tend
toward something that would translate to 'Approved:.*?Hon94Bar' in
this case. However, this failure to recognize \xA0 as whitespace is
the first new problem that's been reported in almost 3 years, so I
hesitate to make a substantive change that might have unforseen
consequences.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 11 01:20:14 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 16:20:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <4BE7E435.5090004@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201005101620140218acf138e8@msapiro>

Tanstaafl wrote:
>
>I wouldn't mind adding the local domain in postfix, but definitely don't
>want to mess with patching MM myself and maintaining it. It's really
>only a cosmetic problem anyway that most likely no one else will ever
>see (how many people ever look at full headers?)...
>
>That said, any chance that MM3 can/will provide a way to do this?
>Something like a DEFAULT_LIST_HOST option?


It turns out there was a Bug/Patch at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/328907> which is related to
this. I've fixed that for MM 2.1.14 with the attached patch which
allows you to specify VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_HOST in mm_cfg.py, and if
you do, it will be appended to the local addresses in virtual-mailman.

As far as MM 3 is concerned, it uses a different delivery method for
Mailman based on LMTP, so this probably isn't applicable.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
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From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Tue May 11 12:28:26 2010
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 06:28:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005101620140218acf138e8@msapiro>
References: <PC195201005101620140218acf138e8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BE9314A.3010900@libertytrek.org>

On 2010-05-10 7:20 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> It turns out there was a Bug/Patch at
> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/328907> which is related to
> this. I've fixed that for MM 2.1.14 with the attached patch which
> allows you to specify VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_HOST in mm_cfg.py, and if
> you do, it will be appended to the local addresses in virtual-mailman.

Great! Assuming you meant VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN (that's what the
patch refers to), I have two questions (sorry ;( hopefully these will be
the last on this topic)...

In order to accomplish my goal, of lists working as
listname at example.com, but the local domain in the mail headers showing
as listname at lists.example.com instead of the postfix host name of
listname at smtp.example.com,

1. Would I set

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'lists'

or

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'lists.example.com'

Maybe the comments in mm_cfg.py for this option should provide an
example for something other than just plain 'localhost'?

and

2. Does this require any mods to postfix/main.cf?

Thanks again Mark!

From roger at rilynn.me.uk  Tue May 11 15:17:45 2010
From: roger at rilynn.me.uk (Roger Lynn)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 14:17:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-loop and exim
Message-ID: <20100511131745.GB19964@rilynn.me.uk>

Hi,

Exim doesn't know what to do with mail to mailman-loop (documented at 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-announce/2001-December/000032.html 
) on my machine. I'm guessing this is because the instructions at 
http://www.list.org/mailman-install/ and 
http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html don't mention mailman-loop.

What do I need to add to tell Exim how to handle this alias? I presume 
it would be an addition to the router.

If it makes any difference, I'm using the Debian packages of Mailman 
2.1.11 (upgraded from 2.1.1) and Exim 4.69, configured according to the 
instructions on the web pages mentioned above.

Thanks,

Roger

From Dave.Anderson at ufv.ca  Mon May 10 18:55:37 2010
From: Dave.Anderson at ufv.ca (Dave Anderson)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 09:55:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment delivery to different mail clients
Message-ID: <4BE7D744.5D4C.00FC.0@ufv.ca>

Hello,

We recently migrated our mailman server from a server with Version 2.1.1 to a new server with Version 2.1.9. One of our mailing lists distributes a PDF file attachment. However, when I switch to the new server the PDF would be delivered to some MUAs fine, but other MUAs would receive the message below:

Excerpt for Groupwise MUA:
Test PDF function
begin 644 btest.pdf
M)5!$1BTQ+C0*)<?LCZ(*-2 P(&]B:@H\/"],96YG=&@@-B P(%(O1FEL=&5R
M("]&;&%T941E8V]D93X^"G-T<F5A;0IXG.W634L#,1 &8/RL1M&_D)N)L&-F
MDDTFUX((XD79F_54T%.%^O\/9A<L[4D]%MX-"_D8)N&!A%G;0"PVC.VGLUR9
M8!_:_V'61BF.W[2PW5^N['PP=R_%,E-(=G at W@6K5H&5:9UO$EE IJQU6YM4=
M^$ZHY,B]._1"N>>D[L@'*C7F5-VQ[UJ"Q,+L3L;8+$GD#Q&GXS27F#2W:27)
MF=7-IH#$/;LSWT6*M=:XDV(VQB;5NIWL?#I:4':+3]]E$NVCN at O?,6E)J7>7
MGB/U+8-;?/FN4,A<TF8+R>YJ$[!UA&O/5+/PN-?;\&A:2&IF3V:XA<R.#$  
M I#_/B91\)C at F<4E @A   (0@  $('L @MH5M2LN$4   A"   0@ -D7$-2N
MJ%UQB0 "$(  !"   <B^@*!V_;5V;>,;<S^8Y]:^ 46F&%QE;F1S=')E86T*
M96YD;V)J"C8@,"!O8FH*,S(W"F5N9&]B:@HT(# @;V)J"CP\+U1Y<&4O4&%G
M92]-961I84)O>"!;," P(#8Q,B W.3)="B]2;W1A=&4@,"]087)E;G0@,R P
M(%(*+U)E<V]U<F-E<SP\+U!R;V-3971;+U!$1B O5&5X=%T*+T9O;G0 at .2 P
M(%(*/CX*+T-O;G1E;G1S(#4@,"!2"CX^"F5N9&]B:@HS(# @;V)J"CP\("]4
M>7!E("]086=E<R O2VED<R!;"C0@,"!2"ET at +T-O=6YT(#$*/CX*96YD;V)J

It works fine on the old server, but we need to retire it soon. I have compared the list configuration and they are identical. I setup a test list on the new server and I get the same results.

The message is sent to the list via the following script:

( cat to.txt ; uuencode test.pdf test.pdf ) | mailx -s "Check" list at example.com 

Note: I get the same results with .doc as well.

Is this a bug? 
Is there another config file I should check?

Thanks,
Dave


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 11 16:41:22 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 07:41:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names,
	revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?
In-Reply-To: <4BE9314A.3010900@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <PC19520100511074122065696973fa6@msapiro>

Tanstaafl wrote:

>On 2010-05-10 7:20 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> It turns out there was a Bug/Patch at
>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/328907> which is related to
>> this. I've fixed that for MM 2.1.14 with the attached patch which
>> allows you to specify VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_HOST in mm_cfg.py, and if
>> you do, it will be appended to the local addresses in virtual-mailman.
>
>Great! Assuming you meant VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN (that's what the
>patch refers to),


Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry.


>I have two questions (sorry ;( hopefully these will be
>the last on this topic)...
>
>In order to accomplish my goal, of lists working as
>listname at example.com, but the local domain in the mail headers showing
>as listname at lists.example.com instead of the postfix host name of
>listname at smtp.example.com,
>
>1. Would I set
>
>VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'lists'
>
>or
>
>VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'lists.example.com'
>
>Maybe the comments in mm_cfg.py for this option should provide an
>example for something other than just plain 'localhost'?


All of these would depend on Postfix. If you set

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'lists'

you will get virtual maps like

listname at example.com  listname at lists

and if you set

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'lists.example.com'

you will get virtual maps like

listname at example.com  listname at lists.example.com

and if you set

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'i_dont_know_what_im_doing'

you will get virtual maps like

listname at example.com  listname at i_dont_know_what_im_doing

I would hope that that would be clear from the comment added to
Defaults.py(.in). I'll add a bit more to try to clarify it.



>and
>
>2. Does this require any mods to postfix/main.cf?


Probably. What I think you want is

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'lists.example.com'

plus whatever is necessary in Postfix to ensure that Postfix treats
lists.example.com as a local domain, i.e. it must directly or
indirectly be in mydestination.

If you were to put

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'lists'

in mm_cfg.py, I'm gussing that Postfix would append mydomain and try to
deliver to listname at lists.smtp.example.com in your case which would
probably fail, unless you also added lists to mydestination in which
case, Postfix might be able to deliver to listname at lists and would
identify it as such in logs and Received: headers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 11 17:00:00 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 08:00:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment delivery to different mail clients
In-Reply-To: <4BE7D744.5D4C.00FC.0@ufv.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1952010051108000003905ea25986@msapiro>

Dave Anderson wrote:
>
>We recently migrated our mailman server from a server with Version 2.1.1 to a new server with Version 2.1.9. One of our mailing lists distributes a PDF file attachment. However, when I switch to the new server the PDF would be delivered to some MUAs fine, but other MUAs would receive the message below:
>
>Excerpt for Groupwise MUA:
>Test PDF function
>begin 644 btest.pdf
>M)5!$1BTQ+C0*)<?LCZ(*-2 P(&]B:@H\/"],96YG=&@@-B P(%(O1FEL=&5R
>M("]&;&%T941E8V]D93X^"G-T<F5A;0IXG.W634L#,1 &8/RL1M&_D)N)L&-F
[...]
>
>It works fine on the old server, but we need to retire it soon. I have compared the list configuration and they are identical. I setup a test list on the new server and I get the same results.
>
>The message is sent to the list via the following script:
>
>( cat to.txt ; uuencode test.pdf test.pdf ) | mailx -s "Check" list at example.com 
>
>Note: I get the same results with .doc as well.
>
>Is this a bug? 
>Is there another config file I should check?


This has nothing to do with Mailman. You are sending a simple
text/plain message, Part of that plain text message body is a
uuencoded file. Some receiving MUAs will render that embedded
uuencoded file as an "attachment" and some will render it as you show
above.

I can't see that the Mailman version would have anything to do with
this, unless the list adds msg_header or msg_footer and perhaps the
way in which that part is being added is different between the two
mailman versions. There were some changes between 2.1.1 and 2.1.9 in
this area.

If you are adding msg_header and/or msg_footer, check to see if in one
case, the message from Mailman is a simple text/plain message and in
the other, it is multipart/mixed with the header/footer in separate
parts.

While this may affect some MUAs decoding and "attaching" of the
uuencoded file, there are MUAs that will not decode the uuencoded file
in any case.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 11 17:27:29 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 08:27:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-loop and exim
In-Reply-To: <20100511131745.GB19964@rilynn.me.uk>
Message-ID: <PC195201005110827290500f5ed6491@msapiro>

Roger Lynn wrote:
>
>Exim doesn't know what to do with mail to mailman-loop (documented at 
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-announce/2001-December/000032.html 
>) on my machine. I'm guessing this is because the instructions at 
>http://www.list.org/mailman-install/ and 
>http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html don't mention mailman-loop.
>
>What do I need to add to tell Exim how to handle this alias? I presume 
>it would be an addition to the router.


No. It would not be an addition to the Mailman router because the
associated transport doesn't do the right thing.

Just add the

mailman-loop: /usr/local/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox

alias to /etc/aliases and the system aliases router will take care of
it. The site list name and/or (standard default) path above may need
adjustment for your installation. I.e. if your site list were named
'site_list' instead of 'mailman' the address above would be
site_list-loop, and the path needs to point to Mailman's data/
directory (possibly /etc/mailman/data in Debian). Also, you need to
make sure that Exim's system aliases user:group can write to
owner-bounces.mbox

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dumpsterdiver at kayosmarket.com  Wed May 12 00:04:46 2010
From: dumpsterdiver at kayosmarket.com (dumpsterdiver)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 15:04:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restore mailing list
Message-ID: <4F52E137-2471-47EF-842D-9944CA8F9FB8@kayosmarket.com>

I am unsure what went wrong, but 2 days ago Mailman unsubscribed almost 200 of my 600 subscribers to my mailing list.  While I am interested in how I can prevent this from happening again, I am more interested currently in how to restore my mailing list member list to what it was before the glitch.  Can anyone help?

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 12 06:46:05 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 21:46:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restore mailing list
In-Reply-To: <4F52E137-2471-47EF-842D-9944CA8F9FB8@kayosmarket.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100511214605014066b66611@msapiro>

dumpsterdiver wrote:

>I am unsure what went wrong, but 2 days ago Mailman unsubscribed almost 200 of my 600 subscribers to my mailing list.  While I am interested in how I can prevent this from happening again, I am more interested currently in how to restore my mailing list member list to what it was before the glitch.  Can anyone help?


To find out what happened, look at Mailman's bounce and subscribe logs.
It is quite possible that the 200 addresses were all undeliverable and
were removed by bounce processing.

Also, depending on your Mailman version there was a bug that could
unsubscribe members with 'stale' bounce scores if the
bounce_score_threshold was lowered. This is fixed in recent versions
but possibly not in yours.

To get the unsubscribed members back, find a recent but before the
event backup containing Mailman's lists/LISTNAME/config.pck, and
restore that over the current one. This will have a few side effects
like creating digest issue numbers that may have already been used and
removing any members that have been added after the backup, but you
can check Mailman's subscribe log to find any new members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed May 12 09:17:39 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:17:39 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird message in /var/log/mailman/vette file
Message-ID: <4BEA5613.7060704@redhat.com>

Dear list,

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question.

A following message keep appearing in /var/log/mailman/vette
at around 12:00 every day.

---
Mailman post from root at example.co.jp held, message-id=<20100
42900100.xxxxxx0 at example.co.jp>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
---

This seems to be related to a cron job(senddigest), so, one way to make this
stopped is to comment out the line regarding senddigest in
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/cron.in.

#0 12 * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests

However, what is that member to a members-only list? If I remember right,
the 'mailman' mailing list created by default, and then administrator's
password
was asked to the list.

How could I add a member to a members-only list to stop that message?

Sincerely,

Masaharu Kawada

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 12 16:34:04 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 07:34:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird message in /var/log/mailman/vette file
In-Reply-To: <4BEA5613.7060704@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100512073404070303eee503@msapiro>

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>
>A following message keep appearing in /var/log/mailman/vette
>at around 12:00 every day.
>
>---
>Mailman post from root at example.co.jp held, message-id=<20100
>42900100.xxxxxx0 at example.co.jp>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
>---
>
>This seems to be related to a cron job(senddigest), so, one way to make this
>stopped is to comment out the line regarding senddigest in
>/usr/lib/mailman/cron/cron.in.
>
>#0 12 * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
>
>However, what is that member to a members-only list? If I remember right,
>the 'mailman' mailing list created by default, and then administrator's
>password
>was asked to the list.
>
>How could I add a member to a members-only list to stop that message?


Mailman's cron/senddigests runs as the mailman user and is encountering
an error and producing output. This output is being mailed by crond to
'mailman' and is being delivered to the 'mailman' list. It is from
'root at ...'. The mailman list in turn is set with
generic_nonmember_action = Hold and 'root at ...' is not a member of the
mailman list, so the 'post' is held for moderator approval and the
hold is logged in the vette log.

You need to go to the admindb interface of the mailman list and see
some of these posts and find and fix the problem in senddigests.

You can add 'root at ...' as a member of the mailman list the same way you
add members to any other list, but I don't recommend that.

I recommend you do the following:

1) Set the 'mailman' list's generic_nonmember_action to Accept.

2) Make sure the mailman site admin is a non-digest member of the
'mailman' list with delivery enabled.

and optionally,

3)Add 'MAILTO=the_address_of_the_mailman_site_admin' to Mailman's
crontab so errors will be mailed directly to the admin instead of to
the list. 

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From LarryH at Havard.com  Wed May 12 16:25:05 2010
From: LarryH at Havard.com (Larry E. Havard)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:25:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing the SMTP server on a hosted Mailman
Message-ID: <015f01caf1de$eab69b30$c023d190$@Havard.com>

If I change 

 

 

Host name this list prefers for email. (Details for
<http://host374.hostmonster.com/mailman/admin/aaefe-l_havard.com/?VARHELP=ge
neral/host_name> hostname)

 

Will this change the SMTP server the list uses for outvbound mail?

 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

HAVARD

& ASSOCIATES

3075 Charlevoix Drive  SE

Grand Rapids, MI 49546

616 458 9333 Voice

616 588 6064 Fax

 


From martijn at youngguns.nl  Wed May 12 15:05:17 2010
From: martijn at youngguns.nl (Martijn de Munnik)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 15:05:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?utf-8?q?Email_sent_to_list_isn=27t_delivered=3F?=
Message-ID: <fe7f02fc6cf182930678e02b01109447@localhost>

Hi,

I installed and configured Mailman on Solaris with Postfix. Everything
seems to work except sending emails to the list :(

I can subscribe to the list and get the confirmation email, also the lists
admin gets an email about the subscription. But when I send an email to the
list nobody on the list gets that email?

After some postfix processing the mail is successfully delivered to
mailman:

---
May 12 14:29:27 stevie.youngguns.nl postfix/local[12940]: [ID 197553
mail.info] E95C020807: to=<test-youngguns.nl at stevie.youngguns.nl>, orig_to
=<test at youngguns.nl>, relay=local, delay=3, delays=0.02/0/0/3, dsn=2.0.0,
status=sent (delivered to command: /opt/youngguns/mailman/mail/mailma
n post test)
---

Mailman is installed in /opt/youngguns/mailman:

---
# pwd
/opt/youngguns/mailman
# ls -la
total 66
drwxrwsr-x  20 root     mailman       20 Apr 28 09:30 .
drwxr-xr-x  16 root     root          16 Apr 28 09:23 ..
drwxrwsr-x  11 root     mailman       70 Apr 28 11:24 Mailman
drwxrwsr-x   4 root     mailman        4 Apr 28 09:30 archives
drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman       42 Apr 28 11:25 bin
drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman       13 Apr 28 09:48 cgi-bin
drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman       12 Apr 28 09:48 cron
drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        7 May 12 14:34 data
drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        7 Apr 28 09:48 icons
drwxrwsr-x   6 root     mailman        6 May  7 16:05 lists
drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        4 May 12 14:44 locks
drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        8 May  7 16:06 logs
drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        3 Apr 28 09:48 mail
drwxrwsr-x  38 root     mailman       38 Apr 28 09:31 messages
drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        2 Apr 28 09:30 pythonlib
drwxrwsr-x  11 root     mailman       11 Apr 28 10:32 qfiles
drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman       16 Apr 28 09:49 scripts
drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        2 Apr 28 09:30 spam
drwxrwsr-x  39 root     mailman       39 Apr 28 09:31 templates
drwxrwsr-x   4 root     mailman       19 Apr 28 09:48 tests
--- 

When I run as root I only get a warning, no errors:

---
Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
         This could allow other users on your system to read private
archives.
         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
         installation manual on how to fix this.
No problems found
---

The logs directory isn't very helpful. Nothing about my message in here:

---
-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman      891 May 12 14:34 error
-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman       86 May  7 15:48 mischief
-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman     5978 May 12 14:34 qrunner
-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman     2312 May 12 14:43 smtp
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     mailman      497 May 12 14:43 subscribe
-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman      324 May  7 16:07 vette
---

The qfiles directory only contains other directories but no files:

---
# find .
.
./in
./virgin
./out
./commands
./bounces
./archive
./retry
./shunt
./news
---

These processes are running for the user mailman:

---
 mailman 14427 14424   0 14:34:29 ?           0:01 /opt/csw/bin/python
/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1
 mailman 14424     1   0 14:34:29 ?           0:00 /opt/csw/bin/python
/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
 mailman 14439 14424   0 14:34:30 ?           0:01 /opt/csw/bin/python
/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:
 mailman 14430 14424   0 14:34:29 ?           0:01 /opt/csw/bin/python
/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:
 mailman 14429 14424   0 14:34:29 ?           0:00 /opt/csw/bin/python
/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0
 mailman 14437 14424   0 14:34:30 ?           0:00 /opt/csw/bin/python
/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1
 mailman 14440 14424   0 14:34:30 ?           0:00 /opt/csw/bin/python
/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1
 mailman 14428 14424   0 14:34:29 ?           0:00 /opt/csw/bin/python
/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:
 mailman 14438 14424   0 14:34:30 ?           0:01 /opt/csw/bin/python
/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:
---

I really don't have any clue where the messages are going to and why
they're not delivered?

-- 
YoungGuns
Kasteleinenkampweg 7b
5222 AX 's-Hertogenbosch
T. 073 623 56 40
F. 073 623 56 39
www.youngguns.nl
KvK 18076568

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 12 21:02:36 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 12:02:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email sent to list isn't delivered?
In-Reply-To: <fe7f02fc6cf182930678e02b01109447@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC1952010051212023604534ff676a9@msapiro>

Martijn de Munnik wrote:
>
>I installed and configured Mailman on Solaris with Postfix. Everything
>seems to work except sending emails to the list :(
>
>I can subscribe to the list and get the confirmation email, also the lists
>admin gets an email about the subscription. But when I send an email to the
>list nobody on the list gets that email?
>
>After some postfix processing the mail is successfully delivered to
>mailman:
>
>---
>May 12 14:29:27 stevie.youngguns.nl postfix/local[12940]: [ID 197553
>mail.info] E95C020807: to=<test-youngguns.nl at stevie.youngguns.nl>, orig_to
>=<test at youngguns.nl>, relay=local, delay=3, delays=0.02/0/0/3, dsn=2.0.0,
>status=sent (delivered to command: /opt/youngguns/mailman/mail/mailma
>n post test)
>---


This says postfix successfully invoked the wrapper which presumably
invoked the 'post' script and which terminated normally which says the
message should be queued in qfiles/in/ as that's all this process does.


>Mailman is installed in /opt/youngguns/mailman:
>
>---
># pwd
>/opt/youngguns/mailman
># ls -la
>total 66
>drwxrwsr-x  20 root     mailman       20 Apr 28 09:30 .
>drwxr-xr-x  16 root     root          16 Apr 28 09:23 ..
>drwxrwsr-x  11 root     mailman       70 Apr 28 11:24 Mailman
>drwxrwsr-x   4 root     mailman        4 Apr 28 09:30 archives
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman       42 Apr 28 11:25 bin
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman       13 Apr 28 09:48 cgi-bin
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman       12 Apr 28 09:48 cron
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        7 May 12 14:34 data
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        7 Apr 28 09:48 icons
>drwxrwsr-x   6 root     mailman        6 May  7 16:05 lists
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        4 May 12 14:44 locks
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        8 May  7 16:06 logs
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        3 Apr 28 09:48 mail
>drwxrwsr-x  38 root     mailman       38 Apr 28 09:31 messages
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        2 Apr 28 09:30 pythonlib
>drwxrwsr-x  11 root     mailman       11 Apr 28 10:32 qfiles
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman       16 Apr 28 09:49 scripts
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        2 Apr 28 09:30 spam
>drwxrwsr-x  39 root     mailman       39 Apr 28 09:31 templates
>drwxrwsr-x   4 root     mailman       19 Apr 28 09:48 tests
>--- 
>
>When I run as root I only get a warning, no errors:
>
>---
>Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
>         This could allow other users on your system to read private
>archives.
>         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
>         installation manual on how to fix this.
>No problems found
>---


The above is all good.


>The logs directory isn't very helpful. Nothing about my message in here:
>
>---
>-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman      891 May 12 14:34 error
>-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman       86 May  7 15:48 mischief
>-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman     5978 May 12 14:34 qrunner
>-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman     2312 May 12 14:43 smtp
>-rw-rw-r--   1 root     mailman      497 May 12 14:43 subscribe
>-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman      324 May  7 16:07 vette
>---
>
>The qfiles directory only contains other directories but no files:
>
>---
># find .
>.
>./in
>./virgin
>./out
>./commands
>./bounces
>./archive
>./retry
>./shunt
>./news
>---


Which says the message either wasn't queued in qfiles/in/ at all or it
was completely processed.


>These processes are running for the user mailman:
>
>---
> mailman 14427 14424   0 14:34:29 ?           0:01 /opt/csw/bin/python
>/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1
> mailman 14424     1   0 14:34:29 ?           0:00 /opt/csw/bin/python
>/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
> mailman 14439 14424   0 14:34:30 ?           0:01 /opt/csw/bin/python
>/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:
> mailman 14430 14424   0 14:34:29 ?           0:01 /opt/csw/bin/python
>/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:
> mailman 14429 14424   0 14:34:29 ?           0:00 /opt/csw/bin/python
>/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0
> mailman 14437 14424   0 14:34:30 ?           0:00 /opt/csw/bin/python
>/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1
> mailman 14440 14424   0 14:34:30 ?           0:00 /opt/csw/bin/python
>/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1
> mailman 14428 14424   0 14:34:29 ?           0:00 /opt/csw/bin/python
>/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:
> mailman 14438 14424   0 14:34:30 ?           0:01 /opt/csw/bin/python
>/opt/youngguns/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:
>---
>
>I really don't have any clue where the messages are going to and why
>they're not delivered?


Does the test list have Archiving Options - archive set to Yes? If so,
is the message archived?

Does the test list have any eligible message recipients, i.e.
non-digest member with delivery enabled and not the poster if the
poster has "not metoo" set and not an addressee (To: or Cc:) with
"nodups" set?


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 12 21:06:45 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 12:06:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing the SMTP server on a hosted Mailman
In-Reply-To: <015f01caf1de$eab69b30$c023d190$@Havard.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010051212064500784ff6753b@msapiro>

Larry E. Havard wrote:

>If I change 
>
>Host name this list prefers for email. (Details for
> hostname)
>
>Will this change the SMTP server the list uses for outvbound mail?


No. It will only change the host domain in list email addresses. You
cannot change the outgoing SMTP server per list. It is a global
setting for all Mailman outgoing mail. You can change it by setting
SMTPHOST and possibly SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Thu May 13 03:07:30 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:07:30 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird message in /var/log/mailman/vette file
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100512073404070303eee503@msapiro>
References: <PC19520100512073404070303eee503@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BEB50D2.9030708@redhat.com>

Hello Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your help. Could I ask one more thing that is
regarding one of your answers?

>You can add 'root at ...' as a member of the mailman list the same way you
>add members to any other list, but I don't recommend that.

Why don't you recommend that? I just make sure the reason. Could you kindy
answer this, please?

Sincerely,


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>   
>> A following message keep appearing in /var/log/mailman/vette
>> at around 12:00 every day.
>>
>> ---
>> Mailman post from root at example.co.jp held, message-id=<20100
>> 42900100.xxxxxx0 at example.co.jp>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
>> ---
>>
>> This seems to be related to a cron job(senddigest), so, one way to make this
>> stopped is to comment out the line regarding senddigest in
>> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/cron.in.
>>
>> #0 12 * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
>>
>> However, what is that member to a members-only list? If I remember right,
>> the 'mailman' mailing list created by default, and then administrator's
>> password
>> was asked to the list.
>>
>> How could I add a member to a members-only list to stop that message?
>>     
>
>
> Mailman's cron/senddigests runs as the mailman user and is encountering
> an error and producing output. This output is being mailed by crond to
> 'mailman' and is being delivered to the 'mailman' list. It is from
> 'root at ...'. The mailman list in turn is set with
> generic_nonmember_action = Hold and 'root at ...' is not a member of the
> mailman list, so the 'post' is held for moderator approval and the
> hold is logged in the vette log.
>
> You need to go to the admindb interface of the mailman list and see
> some of these posts and find and fix the problem in senddigests.
>
> You can add 'root at ...' as a member of the mailman list the same way you
> add members to any other list, but I don't recommend that.
>
> I recommend you do the following:
>
> 1) Set the 'mailman' list's generic_nonmember_action to Accept.
>
> 2) Make sure the mailman site admin is a non-digest member of the
> 'mailman' list with delivery enabled.
>
> and optionally,
>
> 3)Add 'MAILTO=the_address_of_the_mailman_site_admin' to Mailman's
> crontab so errors will be mailed directly to the admin instead of to
> the list. 
>
>   

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 13 04:12:18 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 19:12:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird message in /var/log/mailman/vette file
In-Reply-To: <4BEB50D2.9030708@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010051219121801876d15ec8d@msapiro>

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>
>Thank you very much for your help. Could I ask one more thing that is
>regarding one of your answers?
>
>>You can add 'root at ...' as a member of the mailman list the same way you
>>add members to any other list, but I don't recommend that.
>
>Why don't you recommend that? I just make sure the reason. Could you kindy
>answer this, please?


Because I recommend opening the mailman list to posts from non-members
and the people who should receive this mail are the Mailman site
administrators who should be members of the site list. In most
installations, mail to root would go to the overall system
administrator(s) who normally would not be the best people the receive
mail to mailman at ...

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Thu May 13 05:07:23 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:07:23 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird message in /var/log/mailman/vette file
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010051219121801876d15ec8d@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010051219121801876d15ec8d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BEB6CEB.8090806@redhat.com>

Mark-san,

Thank you very much!  I very much appreciate your help.

Sincerely,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>   
>> Thank you very much for your help. Could I ask one more thing that is
>> regarding one of your answers?
>>
>>     
>>> You can add 'root at ...' as a member of the mailman list the same way you
>>> add members to any other list, but I don't recommend that.
>>>       
>> Why don't you recommend that? I just make sure the reason. Could you kindy
>> answer this, please?
>>     
>
>
> Because I recommend opening the mailman list to posts from non-members
> and the people who should receive this mail are the Mailman site
> administrators who should be members of the site list. In most
> installations, mail to root would go to the overall system
> administrator(s) who normally would not be the best people the receive
> mail to mailman at ...
>
>   


From s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk  Thu May 13 11:42:28 2010
From: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk (Steff Watkins)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:42:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email sent to list isn't delivered?
In-Reply-To: <fe7f02fc6cf182930678e02b01109447@localhost>
References: <fe7f02fc6cf182930678e02b01109447@localhost>
Message-ID: <8A17F10FEBA5C841956578C5AD9027D314183E@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+s.watkins=nhm.ac.uk at python.org 
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+s.watkins=nhm.ac.uk at python.org] 
> On Behalf Of Martijn de Munnik
> Sent: 12 May 2010 14:05
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email sent to list isn't delivered?
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I installed and configured Mailman on Solaris with Postfix. 
> Everything seems to work except sending emails to the list :(
> 
> I can subscribe to the list and get the confirmation email, 
> also the lists admin gets an email about the subscription. 
> But when I send an email to the list nobody on the list gets 
> that email?
> 
> After some postfix processing the mail is successfully delivered to
> mailman:

> ---
> # pwd
> /opt/youngguns/mailman
> # ls -la
> total 66
> drwxrwsr-x  20 root     mailman       20 Apr 28 09:30 .
> drwxr-xr-x  16 root     root          16 Apr 28 09:23 ..
> drwxrwsr-x  11 root     mailman       70 Apr 28 11:24 Mailman
> drwxrwsr-x   4 root     mailman        4 Apr 28 09:30 archives
> drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman       42 Apr 28 11:25 bin
> drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman       13 Apr 28 09:48 cgi-bin
> drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman       12 Apr 28 09:48 cron
> drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        7 May 12 14:34 data
> drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        7 Apr 28 09:48 icons
> drwxrwsr-x   6 root     mailman        6 May  7 16:05 lists
> drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        4 May 12 14:44 locks
> drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        8 May  7 16:06 logs
> drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        3 Apr 28 09:48 mail
> drwxrwsr-x  38 root     mailman       38 Apr 28 09:31 messages
> drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        2 Apr 28 09:30 pythonlib
> drwxrwsr-x  11 root     mailman       11 Apr 28 10:32 qfiles
> drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman       16 Apr 28 09:49 scripts
> drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman        2 Apr 28 09:30 spam
> drwxrwsr-x  39 root     mailman       39 Apr 28 09:31 templates
> drwxrwsr-x   4 root     mailman       19 Apr 28 09:48 tests
> --- 
> 
> When I run as root I only get a warning, no errors:

Hi,

 you don't say what the "effective user-id" of the various qrunner
processes is/are?

If they were running as user root (very bad idea. Don't do it unless you
really have to kids! ..And even then... Mm,kay?) then they would be able
to write to the data directory. Similarly, if the user that your mailman
installation runs under is NOT a part of the mailman group it would NOT
be able to write to the data/spool directories.

Can I suggest you look in your messages and syslog files to see if any
of the mailman processes have carped about not having write access to
some part of your installation. It's solaris so will probably be
/var/adm/message and /var/log/syslog although your setup may be
different.

I'd strongly suspect that this is probably a file/directory ownership
problem first off.

Good luck,
Steff
---------------
Steff Watkins				Natural History Museum, Cromwell
Road, London, SW7 5BD
Systems programmer			Email: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk 
Systems Team				Phone: +44 (0)20 7942 6000 opt 2
========
Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake
in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that
even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have
left the oceans. - HHGTTG 

From till.kleisli at gmx.ch  Fri May 14 13:17:17 2010
From: till.kleisli at gmx.ch (Till Kleisli)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 13:17:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation by reply doesn't work
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005091458380234f4dfb250@msapiro>
References: <PC195201005091458380234f4dfb250@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BED313D.1080503@gmx.ch>

Hi Mark

Thank you for the hint.

I informed my hosting provider about this and hope, he will update 
mailman, at the moment he's still running 2.1.5...

Unfortunately I can't do it by myself.

About the registration to this list, everything went fine, the mail just 
had some delay.. :)

Till

On 09.05.2010 23:58, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Till Kleisli wrote:
>>
>> When a user wants to subscribe to my mailinglist, the user gets the
>> confirmation mail, to confirm the subscription.
>>
>> Then, when the user just replies to the mail (using thunderbird), the
>> list administrator (me) gets a mail that says, a new user subscribed to
>> the mailing list, but when I go to the backend (administration), the
>> user is not in the list of recipients!
>
>
> Prior to Mailman 2.1.10, there was a bug in cmd_confirm.py that could
> throw a UnicodeError exception in processing a confirmation email. It
> would confirm the subscription which sends the admin notice and then
> throw the exception in scanning the message body. This would cause
> CommandRunner to not save the updated list.
>
> You should find errors and tracebacks in Mailman's error log.
>
> If this is the problem, this patch (or upgrading Mailman) will fix it.
>
> --- Mailman/Commands/cmd_confirm.py     2005-12-30 18:50:08 +0000
> +++ Mailman/Commands/cmd_confirm.py     2008-02-18 18:48:16 +0000
> @@ -90,8 +90,11 @@
>               match = 'confirm ' + cookie
>               unprocessed = []
>               for line in res.commands:
> -                if line.lstrip() == match:
> -                    continue
> +                try:
> +                    if line.lstrip() == match:
> +                        continue
> +                except UnicodeError:
> +                    pass
>                   unprocessed.append(line)
>               res.commands = unprocessed
>       # Process just one confirmation string per message
>
>
>
>> PS: I had the same problem subscribing to this mailing list, may be it's
>> me.. :-/ when I replied to the message nothing happened, and when I
>> confirmed on the webpage, I got the confirmation back immediately..
>
>
> I just successfully subscribed and confirmed a subscription to this
> list by email, so I don't see a problem there.
>

From etorres at dap.es  Fri May 14 14:14:47 2010
From: etorres at dap.es (Esteban Torres)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:14:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] modify the html page of the moderator
Message-ID: <20100514141447.a1dc88cc.etorres@dap.es>


I can modify the html page of the moderator?

I want it to appear above the logo of my company (that I found it in admindbsummary.html), but the options I want to just show moderator:
Left:
Defer, Accept, Discard, Reject
Right:
showing the information of the mail.

This is for all emails, both members and non-members.


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 14 16:13:59 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 07:13:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] modify the html page of the moderator
In-Reply-To: <20100514141447.a1dc88cc.etorres@dap.es>
Message-ID: <PC1952010051407135905626710cb2d@msapiro>

Esteban Torres wrote:
>
>I can modify the html page of the moderator?
>
>I want it to appear above the logo of my company (that I found it in admindbsummary.html), but the options I want to just show moderator:
>Left:
>Defer, Accept, Discard, Reject
>Right:
>showing the information of the mail.
>
>This is for all emails, both members and non-members.


This page is built dynamically by Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py. The only
templates involved are the description at the top of the summary page
(admindbsummary.html), the description at the top of the detail page
(admindbpreamble.html) and the detailed instructions page
(admindbdetails.html) so in order to make the above changes other than
logo, you need to modify the code in that module.

Also, while it is possible to add your logo to those templates, a
better way to do this is to modify the Format() method of the Document
class defined in Mailman/htmlformat.py. There you can add a logo or
other HTML at the beginning and/or end of the BODY of the document and
also add style information or link to a style sheet in the HEAD, and
this will apply to all non-templated pages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lee_d at aps.edu  Fri May 14 16:36:23 2010
From: lee_d at aps.edu (Lee, Davis H)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 08:36:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] URL changes
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005101019150640d750e44f@msapiro>
References: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F90976F7A5@EX02.aps.edu.actd>
	<PC195201005101019150640d750e44f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F909894828@EX02.aps.edu.actd>

New questions follow the string of asterisks(***********) below.



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 11:19 AM
To: Lee, Davis H; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] URL changes

Lee, Davis H wrote:
>
>As a part of a migration from OS X to Ubuntu, our list addresses
changed
>from something like  
>
>http://lists.example.pri/mailman/admindb/list_name
>
>to something like 
>
>http://lists.example.pri/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/list_name
>
>
>where the /cgi-bin/ is now listed.  
>
> 
>
>In two places these changes are not coming through, the signatures on
>the sent mail and the management links sent out to list moderators.


Only those two places? It should be everywhere


>Please provide tips on how to change these.


Make sure you have

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'

in mm_cfg.py. Then run fix_url. Also, make sure that msg_footer and
digest_footer contain text like

%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s

rather than a fixed URL

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


***********************************************************************

Thank you,

I have checked the entries you mentioned for DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN and the
msg & digest footer entries in several of the lists admin management
pages.  They all look good. I've also run fix_url again for each list.
And I rebooted the server.

We continue to have inconsistent results.  It seems that either some
posters or some lists are getting the correct addresses and other
aren't. I also have one particularly frustrating situation where one of
our moderated list's moderator cannot seem to send out his weekly
bulletin.  His messages indicate that the message is posted to the old
address (without /cgi-bin/), which does not exist anymore, but the
messages are not waiting to be approved at the new admindb pages. This
is after I unchecked him as a moderator and made sure that his box
remained unchecked. See immediately below:


------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-bounces at lists.aps.edu
[mailto:mailman-bounces at lists.aps.edu] On Behalf Of
madison_community-bounces at lists.aps.edu
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 8:00 AM
To: madison_community-owner at lists.aps.edu
Subject: 4 Madison_Community moderator request(s) waiting

The Madison_Community at lists.aps.edu mailing list has 4 request(s)
waiting for your consideration at:

	http://lists.aps.edu/mailman/admindb/madison_community
	
Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.


Pending posts:
From: baXXXXXXX at aps.edu on Fri May  7 11:59:20 2010
Subject: 
Cause: Post to moderated list

From: baXXXXXXX at aps.edu on Fri May  7 12:12:28 2010
Subject: 
Cause: Post to moderated list

From: baXXXXXXX at aps.edu on Fri May  7 13:58:57 2010
Subject: Test
Cause: Post to moderated list

From: baXXXXXXX at aps.edu on Thu May 13 15:50:59 2010
Subject: 13 May BPM
Cause: Post to moderated list

------------------------------------------

In the meantime, some posts do get the correct addresses (with
/cgi-bin/) in the footers 

(Science mailing list
Science at lists.aps.edu
http://lists.aps.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science).  

I will try to figure out whether this happens per poster or per list.

------------------------------------------

Questions:

1) Is there anything I should do to help you help me? More info,
different composition of email, etc..?

2) Where can I look for these lost postings?

3) Once I find them, can I send them along their merry way, and get the
request messages to stop?

4) Of course... how can I get this inconsistency resolved?


Thank you,

Davis Lee

WAN Administrator
Albuquerque Public Schools
505 830 6870










From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 14 17:52:42 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 08:52:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] URL changes
In-Reply-To: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F909894828@EX02.aps.edu.actd>
Message-ID: <PC1952010051408524202655fbfd0b3@msapiro>

Lee, Davis H wrote:
>
>I have checked the entries you mentioned for DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN and the
>msg & digest footer entries in several of the lists admin management
>pages.  They all look good. I've also run fix_url again for each list.
>And I rebooted the server.


Fix_url should fix most of this. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9>.

In Mailman's directory, run

  bin/dumpdb lists/madison_community/config.pck | grep web_page_url

(you may have to add some path info is bin/ and lists/ are not in the
same directory. Based on your having run fix_url, I suspect that this
will show the correct http://lists.aps.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/ value. See
below for more.


>We continue to have inconsistent results.  It seems that either some
>posters or some lists are getting the correct addresses and other
>aren't. I also have one particularly frustrating situation where one of
>our moderated list's moderator cannot seem to send out his weekly
>bulletin.  His messages indicate that the message is posted to the old
>address (without /cgi-bin/), which does not exist anymore,


Are you sure? I think this is the crux of the situation right.


>but the
>messages are not waiting to be approved at the new admindb pages. This
>is after I unchecked him as a moderator and made sure that his box
>remained unchecked. See immediately below:


I think you mean "unchecked him as moderated", not "unchecked him as a
moderator".


>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mailman-bounces at lists.aps.edu
>[mailto:mailman-bounces at lists.aps.edu] On Behalf Of
>madison_community-bounces at lists.aps.edu
>Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 8:00 AM
>To: madison_community-owner at lists.aps.edu
>Subject: 4 Madison_Community moderator request(s) waiting


If you look at the full raw headers of this message, the Received:
headers will show where this is coming from. I think you'll find it
comes from the old installation.


>The Madison_Community at lists.aps.edu mailing list has 4 request(s)
>waiting for your consideration at:
>
>	http://lists.aps.edu/mailman/admindb/madison_community
>	
>Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
>pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.
>
>
>Pending posts:
>From: baXXXXXXX at aps.edu on Fri May  7 11:59:20 2010
>Subject: 
>Cause: Post to moderated list
>
>From: baXXXXXXX at aps.edu on Fri May  7 12:12:28 2010
>Subject: 
>Cause: Post to moderated list
>
>From: baXXXXXXX at aps.edu on Fri May  7 13:58:57 2010
>Subject: Test
>Cause: Post to moderated list
>
>From: baXXXXXXX at aps.edu on Thu May 13 15:50:59 2010
>Subject: 13 May BPM
>Cause: Post to moderated list
>
>------------------------------------------
>
>In the meantime, some posts do get the correct addresses (with
>/cgi-bin/) in the footers 
>
>(Science mailing list
>Science at lists.aps.edu
>http://lists.aps.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science).  
>
>I will try to figure out whether this happens per poster or per list.
>
>------------------------------------------
>
>Questions:
>
>1) Is there anything I should do to help you help me? More info,
>different composition of email, etc..?


Your MX DNS records for lists.aps.edu and aps.edu indicate you are
using Forefront Online Protection for Exchange. could this be still
delivering some list's mail to the old server? Or if not Forefront,
something in the MTA that Forefront delivers to.

If you go through everything here and still can't find the problem,
then tell us what you did and what you found.


>2) Where can I look for these lost postings?


On the old server.


>3) Once I find them, can I send them along their merry way, and get the
>request messages to stop?


If you want them to be delivered to the old list. The best way to
handle this is to make sure that neither Mailman nor any of Mailman's
cron jobs are running on the old server (or since it's OS X maybe it's
launchd instead of cron). Then, on the old server, you will find these
messages in Mailman's data/ directory with names like
heldmsg-madison_community-nnn.pck. You can move these files to the new
server and re-post the messages with the script at
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/hold_again>.


>4) Of course... how can I get this inconsistency resolved?


Completely decommission the old installation and make sure all list
mail is delivered to the new installation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From eric.luellen at murraystate.edu  Fri May 14 21:08:23 2010
From: eric.luellen at murraystate.edu (ericl42)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 12:08:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Moderators subscribe users via email only
Message-ID: <28563255.post@talk.nabble.com>


I am setting up a MailMan list server and I am trying to find a way for
moderators to subscribe users through email. We are only using the MailMan
website for the administrators and need the moderators to be able to at
least subscribe people and/or accept subscription requests from users. The
only way I can think of this working is by allowing only moderators the
ability to use the subscribe command and then I can just set the privacy
options to wide open and not require approval since I know only the
moderators are doing the commands. Is this possible or is there any other
way to do this? Thanks.

-- 
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Moderators-subscribe-users-via-email-only-tp28563255p28563255.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Sat May 15 16:20:24 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 15:20:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderators subscribe users via email only
In-Reply-To: <28563255.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <28563255.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <20100515142024.GC10132@amyl.org.uk>

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 12:08:23PM -0700, ericl42 wrote:
> I am setting up a MailMan list server and I am trying to find a way for
> moderators to subscribe users through email. We are only using the MailMan
> website for the administrators and need the moderators to be able to at
> least subscribe people and/or accept subscription requests from users. The
> only way I can think of this working is by allowing only moderators the
> ability to use the subscribe command and then I can just set the privacy
> options to wide open and not require approval since I know only the
> moderators are doing the commands. Is this possible or is there any other
> way to do this? Thanks.

Were this me, I'd probably look at using something like:

    all mail going to $mailbox is considered a (un)subscription request;
    mail to $mailbox needs to be (gpg) signed;
    the subject: header contains the listname and a command;
    the body of $mail contains a list of email addresses, one per line

If the signature's valid, then to feed the body of the mail to
(add,remove)_members, stripping subject: as arg1 (listname) and arg2
as 'add' or 'remove', and turning the body into a tempfile to use.

As for invocation, it could be done directly as a pipe to a script, or
relying on cron to handle things; a second mailbox could be used, to
make things 'easier' for subscription/unsubscription.

I'm not doing this myself. There may be other ways. 

For Mailman 3,
    http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers at python.org/msg11808.html
and thereafter may be of interest.

-- 
``MP3s are for people who download music. People who buy Mercedes
  cars can afford to buy their music.''
  (Mercedes dealer, to customer requesting an in-car MP3 player)

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 15 17:11:59 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 08:11:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderators subscribe users via email only
In-Reply-To: <28563255.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100515081159001594a8660a@msapiro>

ericl42 wrote:
>
>I am setting up a MailMan list server and I am trying to find a way for
>moderators to subscribe users through email. We are only using the MailMan
>website for the administrators and need the moderators to be able to at
>least subscribe people and/or accept subscription requests from users. The
>only way I can think of this working is by allowing only moderators the
>ability to use the subscribe command and then I can just set the privacy
>options to wide open and not require approval since I know only the
>moderators are doing the commands. Is this possible or is there any other
>way to do this? Thanks.


Without modifying the code or writing your own email subscribe process
such as suggested by Adam McGreggor in another reply, what you suggest
is not possible.

The only way I can think to do this without code modifications is the
following:

Set the list's subscribe_policy to Require approval.

Then a moderator (or anyone) can send an email with
Subject: subscribe new_users_pw (no)digest address=newuser at example.com
to the list-request address.

The moderator who sent the request will receive a "results of your
email commands" message saying the request has been forward to the
list admin.

If admin_immed_notify is yes, all owners/moderators will receive notice
of a held subscription.

In any case, the moderator can go to the web admindb interface and
approve the held subscription.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From submit at zuka.net  Sat May 15 17:53:42 2010
From: submit at zuka.net (Dave Filchak)
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 11:53:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] {RW-Spam?} New install problems
Message-ID: <4BEEC386.8070905@zuka.net>

Hi folks,

I had mailman installed on a server that crashed badly. So, I have 
installed a fresh copy of mailman on a new server, or at least a new 
server for mailman. This server is the main mail server and secondary 
DNS server. Initially, the original mailman was installed an another 
server which was our secondary mail server and primary DNS server. So, 
essentially, I had to create mail aliases so that mail sent to any of 
the lists, were forwarded over to this now missing server for processing 
by mailman. Now, with the new install of mailman, it still seems to be 
trying to forward to the old server and I cannot find out where this is 
happening. We use postfix with all the email accounts stored in MySQL 
and Postfix admin as the front end to that. I can find no instances of a 
alias/forward to the old server and our aliases in 
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases is correct. There is not such reference 
in /etc/aliases as well.

I had no trouble setting up the new list and received no errors.

Anyone perhaps have an idea what might be going on here and possible 
ways to troubleshoot this?

Dave

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 15 18:41:04 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 09:41:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] {RW-Spam?} New install problems
In-Reply-To: <4BEEC386.8070905@zuka.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201005150941040453540ae789@msapiro>

Dave Filchak wrote:
>
>I can find no instances of a 
>alias/forward to the old server and our aliases in 
>/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases is correct. There is not such reference 
>in /etc/aliases as well.


Do you have a reference in Postfix to
/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman?

Have you checked things in Postfix such as transport_maps?

What does the postfix log message say for mail to a list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ddclarke at peak.org  Sat May 15 22:53:32 2010
From: ddclarke at peak.org (TheClarkes)
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 13:53:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cleaning up email headers
Message-ID: <201005152054.o4FKrXu5072506@peak-mail-gateway.peak.org>

I am a ceramic artist living in Eugene, OR. My mailing list of 
customers is now done with mailman.
However, I notice that the email headers are crammed with extraneous 
information/lines.
Despite my best efforts to reduce the header clutter, I'm still left 
with unwanted lines (see below in boxes)
[]

Does anyone know how to reduce the header further ? I'd love to get 
it to something simpler and less intrusive ...
thanks ... don 

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 16 17:24:16 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 08:24:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cleaning up email headers
In-Reply-To: <201005152054.o4FKrXu5072506@peak-mail-gateway.peak.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201005160824160390045d4f96@msapiro>

TheClarkes wrote:
>
>I am a ceramic artist living in Eugene, OR. My mailing list of 
>customers is now done with mailman.
>However, I notice that the email headers are crammed with extraneous 
>information/lines.
>Despite my best efforts to reduce the header clutter, I'm still left 
>with unwanted lines (see below in boxes)
>[]
>
>Does anyone know how to reduce the header further ? I'd love to get 
>it to something simpler and less intrusive ...
>thanks ... don 


Presumably, your header list was included in a non-text/plain part that
was removed by this list's content filtering. However, here's an
annotated list of headers typically added or modified by Mailman.

X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 16 May 2010 16:46:02 +0200
  added if a message was held for moderator approval and later accepted.

X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.12
  added if the list's content filtering removed anything

Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cleaning up email headers
  possibly modified by adding the subject_prefix

X-BeenThere: mailman-users at python.org
  added and required to prevent mail loops from misconfigured lists.

X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
  added

Precedence: list
  added

List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users
<mailman-users.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe:
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users>,
	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users>
List-Post: <mailto:mailman-users at python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=subscribe>

  The List-* headers are specifid by RFC 2369. They can be suppressed
  by setting include_rfc2369_headers to No on the list's General
  Options admin page.

Sender: mailman-users-bounces+mark=msapiro.net at python.org
Errors-To: mailman-users-bounces+mark=msapiro.net at python.org

  The above two are added/changed by Mailman for bounce processing
  purposes. Unfortunately, the Sender header can cause some Microsoft
  MUAs to display From: 'sender' on behalf of 'from'. See the FAQ at
  <http://wiki.list.org/x/RoA9>.

Note that most MUAs do not display most of these headers by default. As
noted above, you can easily turn off the List-* headers.  

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From roger at rilynn.me.uk  Mon May 17 15:54:14 2010
From: roger at rilynn.me.uk (Roger Lynn)
Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 14:54:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-loop and exim
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005110827290500f5ed6491@msapiro>
References: <20100511131745.GB19964@rilynn.me.uk>
	<PC195201005110827290500f5ed6491@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20100517135414.GB5501@rilynn.me.uk>

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 08:27:29AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Roger Lynn wrote:
> >Exim doesn't know what to do with mail to mailman-loop (documented at 
> >http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-announce/2001-December/000032.html 
> >) on my machine. I'm guessing this is because the instructions at 
> >http://www.list.org/mailman-install/ and 
> >http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html don't mention mailman-loop.
> >
> >What do I need to add to tell Exim how to handle this alias? I presume 
> >it would be an addition to the router.
> 
> No. It would not be an addition to the Mailman router because the
> associated transport doesn't do the right thing.
> 
> Just add the
> 
> mailman-loop: /usr/local/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
> 
> alias to /etc/aliases and the system aliases router will take care of
> it. The site list name and/or (standard default) path above may need
> adjustment for your installation. I.e. if your site list were named
> 'site_list' instead of 'mailman' the address above would be
> site_list-loop, and the path needs to point to Mailman's data/
> directory (possibly /etc/mailman/data in Debian). Also, you need to
> make sure that Exim's system aliases user:group can write to
> owner-bounces.mbox

Is the necessity of adding the above line doumented anywhere in the 
installation instructions?

The equivalent in Debian is

mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox

However Debian's default Exim configuration doesn't allow delivery to 
files in /etc/aliases. The "Debian way" to do this would be to create an 
Exim router and transport pair which would have the appropriate 
permissions to deliver to the file. I have posted to a Debian bug on 
this subject at http://bugs.debian.org/562700#50 If I get around to 
adding the router/transport (it shouldn't be difficult) I will post my 
results to that bug.

Thanks,

Roger Lynn

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 17 18:41:47 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 09:41:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-loop and exim
In-Reply-To: <20100517135414.GB5501@rilynn.me.uk>
Message-ID: <PC195201005170941470734a92ff7cd@msapiro>

Roger Lynn wrote:

>On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 08:27:29AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> Just add the
>> 
>> mailman-loop: /usr/local/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
>> 
>> alias to /etc/aliases and the system aliases router will take care of
>> it. The site list name and/or (standard default) path above may need
>> adjustment for your installation. I.e. if your site list were named
>> 'site_list' instead of 'mailman' the address above would be
>> site_list-loop, and the path needs to point to Mailman's data/
>> directory (possibly /etc/mailman/data in Debian). Also, you need to
>> make sure that Exim's system aliases user:group can write to
>> owner-bounces.mbox
>
>Is the necessity of adding the above line doumented anywhere in the 
>installation instructions?


No, unfortunately, it's not. I'll try to put something in the
installation manual.

However, I don't think it is a serious problem. The only mail sent with
envelope from mailman-loop is sent either to mailman-owner or to the
mailman list owner address(es) directly. If mail to mailman-owner is
not deliverable to Mailman, there are more serious problems than a
missing mailman-loop alias. Thus, the only real issue is with mail to
the actual owner address(es). This mail should normally not bounce,
but if it does, and the alias doesn't exist, the DSN will simply be
dropped by the MTA because it will have a null envelope sender.

The only loss is that the DSN is not saved in owner-bounces.mbox. No
actual loop results.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 17 19:21:42 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 10:21:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-loop and exim
In-Reply-To: <20100517135414.GB5501@rilynn.me.uk>
References: <20100517135414.GB5501@rilynn.me.uk>
Message-ID: <4BF17B26.1000404@msapiro.net>

Roger Lynn wrote:

> The equivalent in Debian is
> 
> mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
> 
> However Debian's default Exim configuration doesn't allow delivery to 
> files in /etc/aliases. The "Debian way" to do this would be to create an 
> Exim router and transport pair which would have the appropriate 
> permissions to deliver to the file.


There is nothing that requires this mail to be delivered directly to
that or any other file. You could just as well put

mailman-loop: root

or any other deliverable local address in /etc/aliases. Also, as I
touched on in my other reply, if the owner of the 'mailman' list is an
always deliverable local address, there will never be any legitimate
mail to mailman-loop.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed May 19 11:31:08 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 18:31:08 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird message in /var/log/mailman/vette file
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010051219121801876d15ec8d@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010051219121801876d15ec8d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BF3AFDC.60900@redhat.com>

Hi Mark-san,

Very sorry to ask you on this again.  I'm a bit confused on the steps that
you led me know before.

>I recommend you do the following:
>
>1) Set the 'mailman' list's generic_nonmember_action to Accept.
>
>2) Make sure the mailman site admin is a non-digest member of the
>'mailman' list with delivery enabled.
>
>and optionally,
>
>3)Add 'MAILTO=the_address_of_the_mailman_site_admin' to Mailman's
>crontab so errors will be mailed directly to the admin instead of to
>the list. 

As for the step 3, in this case, 'root@' should be set on the 'MAILTO='
line in mailman's crontab? 'The_address_of_the_mailman_site_admin' is 'mailman@' though.

Sincerely, 


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>   
>> Thank you very much for your help. Could I ask one more thing that is
>> regarding one of your answers?
>>
>>     
>>> You can add 'root at ...' as a member of the mailman list the same way you
>>> add members to any other list, but I don't recommend that.
>>>       
>> Why don't you recommend that? I just make sure the reason. Could you kindy
>> answer this, please?
>>     
>
>
> Because I recommend opening the mailman list to posts from non-members
> and the people who should receive this mail are the Mailman site
> administrators who should be members of the site list. In most
> installations, mail to root would go to the overall system
> administrator(s) who normally would not be the best people the receive
> mail to mailman at ...
>
>   


From glen at prideaux.id.au  Wed May 19 11:28:26 2010
From: glen at prideaux.id.au (glen at prideaux.id.au)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 17:28:26 +0800 (WST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reject non-members at SMTP time
In-Reply-To: <mailman.634.1273852366.32708.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.634.1273852366.32708.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <c377c40b135bb2e07011381df4c5ea83.squirrel@mail.prideaux.id.au>

Is there a way to reject non-subscribers at the time of their initial SMTP
conversation, as opposed to either rejecting them later (with an
associated bounce message) or silently discarding them?

I don't want to generate bounce messages because of the back-scatter they
generate, but silently discarding is also bad: non-spam senders should get
some notification that their message has failed.

I'm using exim4 and it seems likely that there is a way to have exim check
whether mailman is willing to accept the message at SMTP time.

Is this something that others have done? I thought it would have been a
fairly common requirement but I haven't been able to find any clear notes
on how to do it.

Glen


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 19 15:30:44 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 06:30:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird message in /var/log/mailman/vette file
In-Reply-To: <4BF3AFDC.60900@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010051906304408129f958a18@msapiro>

Masaharu Kawada quoted me and wrote:
>>
>>and optionally,
>>
>>3)Add 'MAILTO=the_address_of_the_mailman_site_admin' to Mailman's
>>crontab so errors will be mailed directly to the admin instead of to
>>the list. 
>
>As for the step 3, in this case, 'root@' should be set on the 'MAILTO='
>line in mailman's crontab? 'The_address_of_the_mailman_site_admin' is 'mailman@' though.


mailman at ... is a list, not a person. There is no point in adding
MAILTO=mailman at ... to Mailman's crontab as that is where the mail goes
by default anyway and steps 1 and 2 should ensure that the appropiate
person/people receive it.

Step 3 is only if you want to bypass the mailman list entirely and
deliver these cron errors directly to a person, but for ease of
maintenance, it is probably better not to do this and to deliver the
errors to the site list as long as it's configured so someone actually
recieves the mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lee_d at aps.edu  Wed May 19 15:50:56 2010
From: lee_d at aps.edu (Lee, Davis H)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 07:50:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Just saying Thanks
Message-ID: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F9099DECE8@EX02.aps.edu.actd>

Mark, Terri,

 

Thank you for your time, energy, and spot-on assistance. It has helped a
lot and really is appreciated.

 

Davis Lee

 

WAN Administrator

Albuquerque Public Schools

505 830 6870

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 19 17:15:53 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 08:15:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reject non-members at SMTP time
In-Reply-To: <c377c40b135bb2e07011381df4c5ea83.squirrel@mail.prideaux.id.au>
Message-ID: <PC19520100519081553062588296866@msapiro>

glen at prideaux.id.au wrote:

>Is there a way to reject non-subscribers at the time of their initial SMTP
>conversation, as opposed to either rejecting them later (with an
>associated bounce message) or silently discarding them?


Maybe.


>I don't want to generate bounce messages because of the back-scatter they
>generate, but silently discarding is also bad: non-spam senders should get
>some notification that their message has failed.


Right.


>I'm using exim4 and it seems likely that there is a way to have exim check
>whether mailman is willing to accept the message at SMTP time.
>
>Is this something that others have done? I thought it would have been a
>fairly common requirement but I haven't been able to find any clear notes
>on how to do it.


I am not aware of anyone who has done this either in Exim or other MTAs.

My first thought is it would be fairly easy to create a script to test
for list membership that Exim could use in either the router or
transport or possibly an acl to do this, but I don't know enough Exim
to say exactly how to do the Exim part of this.

However, this is problematic because Exim only knows the envelope
sender and recipient, and tests for Mailman's tests for list
membership and ability to post are based on much more than just
envelope sender.

Another way to do this would be to modify Mailman's scripts/post script
to do the tests and return a failure exit code if posting isn't
allowed. This would work with any MTA and would cause the pipe to
mailman to fail which should be reported to the sending MTA.

The problem with this approach is circumstances such as a very large
list or perhaps a list lock could cause the post script to be timed
out by the MTA. Ideally, this would be reported back to the sending
MTA as a retryable (4xx) status, but maybe not.

The issue is to do the test correctly, you have to look at all the
headers that Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py looks at to determine
membership, and then look also at *_these_nonmembers and
generic_nonmember_action.

In other words, what post would need to do is parse the message into a
Mailman.Message.Message() object, instantiate the list, possibly call
Mailman.Handlers.Approve.process() to look for an Approved: header,
call Mailman.Handlers.Moderate.process() and process the various
exceptions it raises for Reject, Hold or Discard, and then either
queue the post or exit with failure. That's a lot of extra work for
something that now only queues the post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Thu May 20 00:02:28 2010
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 18:02:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeking Email Client Recommendation - Specific use
	scenario
Message-ID: <p06240820c81a06870356@[192.168.201.53]>

All --

I know that Mailman is intended to be more or 
less sender agnostic, however, I would like your 
recommendations for email client software that 
will suit my specific needs and still play well 
with Mailman (announce-only lists).

(preferably version 2.1.9, or whatever the folks 
over at Red Hat linux are approving these 
days...that's another story.  I have a 
development server that is currently on the 
standard distribution of 2.1.12, and am happy to 
move up at any time, but the collaborators are 
sticking to Red Hat's release.)


Here are my specific client software needs:

1) a cross-platform client (Mac & Windows; Mac 
10.5 & up, Windows XP & Windows 7)
2) capable of sending "plain-text" messages (see below)
3) capable of sending to mailman in many 
languages (e.g. English, French, Spanish, 
Portuguese, Russian, Thai, Khmer, Lao, Chineese), 
without munging the characters such that they 
come out incorrectly in the list messages
4) reasonably simple to configure and maintain 
for a user base of 10-40 users located all over 
the world
5) capable of off-line message creation (so not 
solely web-mail based solutions)

Any suggestions from folks experienced with a 
specific email client and Mailman are greatly 
appreciated.

Sincerely,
Drew Tenenholz


Read on if you like too much detail.....

I work part-time for a non-profit which has a 
subscriber base of about 50,000-60,000 across a 
number of lists.  Some lists are still being 
faithfully served by majordomo, but growth is 
forcing us to move on to a list-serve that can 
handle the languages mentioned above (and with 
more growth more languages are likely).  Russian 
(Cyrillic) was the first real hurdle, and since 
I've gotten that to work (Mailman 2.1.12), we've 
started playing around with French (Mailman 
2.1.9), which one would think is simpler...but is 
not turning out to be so.

One thing I'm seeing is that French accents sent 
from MS-Entourage (Mac version of Outlook) end up 
with surrounding spaces in the SUBJECT LINE ONLY 
( e.g. pand ? mique instead of pand?mique) while 
my very old & trusty Eudora 6.2.4 has absolutely 
no problems with the same text; go figure!

The business rules for the organization state that mailing list mail MUST:
1) Be in 'plain'-text, not rich text, HTML, etc. 
(But obviously, needing non-ASCII characters 
means some updated character allowances are 
required.)
2) NEVER contain attachments of any sort
3) NOT contain personal signatures or signatures 
added by corporate/governmental/education server 
like "This communication was sent to me at me.com 
and is intended only for that recipient, if you 
are them, don't read this message...."

The goal is to send to people all over the world 
(we're sending to 196 countries right now) in a 
way that readers in New York and the African bush 
can all read that same message and not need a 
very fancy computer setup or lots of bandwidth to 
receive.

They've been 'standardized' on Eudora for a lot 
of years, but the Russians don't use it, and 
anyway it can't be installed on Windows 7.  So, 
it is time to change, and I'm hoping to find 
something that I can help all of my list posters.

It would be helpful if this email client had a 
setting to NOT line-wrap messages, there is this 
whole long editing and proofing process before 
sending out the announcement (all managed by a 
closed [soon to be Mailman] list), and 
line-wrapping becomes a real PITA.

Our allowed posters are happy to use what I tell 
them to (more or less), and they don't need a 
single email client for all of their email 
accounts; in fact sometimes it is better if they 
use one client for messages related to this 
organization and a different client for any other 
accounts.

The off-line message creation is necessary 
because frankly we have people who a are off the 
grid a lot (either travelling or in places 
without any meaningful internet access).  Also, 
the posts require a good deal of thought, 
formatting, and correction.  Having a tiny little 
composition window is just not going to cut it. 
What some people do now is literally that: 'cut' 
from the email application, 'paste' into MS-Word 
for corrections, then cut/paste back into email & 
send. (Talk about your encoding glitches....)

Any suggestions from folks experienced with a 
specific email client and Mailman are greatly 
appreciated.

Sincerely,
Drew Tenenholz

From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu May 20 00:25:11 2010
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 15:25:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeking Email Client Recommendation - Specific
 use	scenario
In-Reply-To: <p06240820c81a06870356@[192.168.201.53]>
References: <p06240820c81a06870356@[192.168.201.53]>
Message-ID: <4BF46547.1070505@tuunq.com>


AFAICT, your option is Thunderbird. (I haven't verified all of your 
requirements, though.)

Other than  Eudora and Outlook/Entourage, what have you looked at and what's 
been discarded?

z!

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Thu May 20 02:17:42 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 01:17:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeking Email Client Recommendation -
	Specific	use scenario
In-Reply-To: <4BF46547.1070505@tuunq.com>
References: <p06240820c81a06870356@[192.168.201.53]>
	<4BF46547.1070505@tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <20100520001742.GC10132@amyl.org.uk>

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 03:25:11PM -0700, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
> AFAICT, your option is Thunderbird. (I haven't verified all of your  
> requirements, though.)

Thunderbird was where I was thinking, too. 

-- 
``Like any Englishman armed with a cricket bat, he was doomed to fail.''
  (Guy Ladenburg, prosecuting, comments on Paul Kelleher's
   first attempt to behead a statue of Margaret Thatcher)

From mkawada at redhat.com  Thu May 20 02:28:40 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 09:28:40 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird message in /var/log/mailman/vette file
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010051906304408129f958a18@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010051906304408129f958a18@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BF48238.50601@redhat.com>

Hello Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your answer.

Sincerely,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Masaharu Kawada quoted me and wrote:
>   
>>> and optionally,
>>>
>>> 3)Add 'MAILTO=the_address_of_the_mailman_site_admin' to Mailman's
>>> crontab so errors will be mailed directly to the admin instead of to
>>> the list. 
>>>       
>> As for the step 3, in this case, 'root@' should be set on the 'MAILTO='
>> line in mailman's crontab? 'The_address_of_the_mailman_site_admin' is 'mailman@' though.
>>     
>
>
> mailman at ... is a list, not a person. There is no point in adding
> MAILTO=mailman at ... to Mailman's crontab as that is where the mail goes
> by default anyway and steps 1 and 2 should ensure that the appropiate
> person/people receive it.
>
> Step 3 is only if you want to bypass the mailman list entirely and
> deliver these cron errors directly to a person, but for ease of
> maintenance, it is probably better not to do this and to deliver the
> errors to the site list as long as it's configured so someone actually
> recieves the mail.
>
>   


From robertk at jpl.nasa.gov  Thu May 20 01:33:42 2010
From: robertk at jpl.nasa.gov (Robert Khachikyan)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 16:33:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] does arch read plain text emails?
Message-ID: <4BF47556.30201@jpl.nasa.gov>

Dear MM gurus,

I've recently installed mailman to migrate from majordomo. And in 
majoromo I save all emails in plain text. I have about 40000 emails to 
convert to mailman. And when I issue
~mailman/bin/arch dojo /home/mails/dojo/23048

it returns:

Pickling archive state into 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/dojo/pipermail.pck

However, I do not see it on the web...

How can I convert these emails to mailman?

Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
--Robert

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 20 04:36:02 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 19:36:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeking Email Client Recommendation - Specific
 use	scenario
In-Reply-To: <p06240820c81a06870356@[192.168.201.53]>
References: <p06240820c81a06870356@[192.168.201.53]>
Message-ID: <4BF4A012.8010103@msapiro.net>

On 5/19/2010 3:02 PM, Drew Tenenholz wrote:
> 
> Here are my specific client software needs:
> 
> 1) a cross-platform client (Mac & Windows; Mac 10.5 & up, Windows XP &
> Windows 7)
> 2) capable of sending "plain-text" messages (see below)
> 3) capable of sending to mailman in many languages (e.g. English,
> French, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, Thai, Khmer, Lao, Chineese),
> without munging the characters such that they come out incorrectly in
> the list messages
> 4) reasonably simple to configure and maintain for a user base of 10-40
> users located all over the world
> 5) capable of off-line message creation (so not solely web-mail based
> solutions)


Two others have recommended T-bird and I agree it meets the
requirements. Also, it is easy to configure custom headers with T-bird
such as the Approved: header that may be used for posting to announce lists.


> One thing I'm seeing is that French accents sent from MS-Entourage (Mac
> version of Outlook) end up with surrounding spaces in the SUBJECT LINE
> ONLY ( e.g. pand ? mique instead of pand?mique) while my very old &
> trusty Eudora 6.2.4 has absolutely no problems with the same text; go
> figure!


This may be a problem with the receiving MUA rather than the sender,
although both may be not doing the right thing.

When RFC 2047 encoding headers like Subject, The word pand?mique should
be encoded for example using iso-8859-1 and quoted printable encoding as
"=?iso-8859-1?Q?pand=E9mique?=". I.e. the whole word should be encoded
in one "encoded-word". Some MUA's do not do this properly. If the MUA
encodes the word as "pand =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E9?= mique", the encoding MUA
is wrong and the decoding MUA would be correct to insert spaces. On the
other hand, the string "pand=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E9?=mique" is not a valid
encoding at all as an "encoded-word" must be delimited by whitespace.
Because of this, white space between adjacent encoded words as in
"=?iso-8859-1?Q?pand?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E9?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?mique?="
should be ignored, but not all decoding MUAs will ignore it.

This is further complicated by the fact that Mailman may alter the
encoding of the Subject: header when adding the subject_prefix, but as
far as I know, nothing Mailman does will insert spaces, although it may
lose the space between the subject_prefix and the rest of the subject.

[...]
> 
> It would be helpful if this email client had a setting to NOT line-wrap
> messages, there is this whole long editing and proofing process before
> sending out the announcement (all managed by a closed [soon to be
> Mailman] list), and line-wrapping becomes a real PITA.


In T-bird, it's an "advanced" option, but it can be set.


[...]
> 
> The off-line message creation is necessary because frankly we have
> people who a are off the grid a lot (either travelling or in places
> without any meaningful internet access).  Also, the posts require a good
> deal of thought, formatting, and correction.  Having a tiny little
> composition window is just not going to cut it. What some people do now
> is literally that: 'cut' from the email application, 'paste' into
> MS-Word for corrections, then cut/paste back into email & send. (Talk
> about your encoding glitches....)


T-Bird can compose off line and send later (as can many other clients).
You can make the composition window as big as you want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu May 20 05:28:37 2010
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 20:28:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeking Email Client Recommendation - Specific
 use	scenario
In-Reply-To: <4BF4A012.8010103@msapiro.net>
References: <p06240820c81a06870356@[192.168.201.53]>
	<4BF4A012.8010103@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4BF4AC65.5080008@tuunq.com>


One thing I will mention about thunderbird-  IMNSHO, version 3 is bad news. 
  I use it, but there are several obvious things that don't work well or 
correctly (list omitted as being off-topic). I haven't been annoyed enough 
to drop back a version, but some people have. Go with version 2 unless 3 has 
a feature that you really need.

z!


From tygrrrnelson at gmail.com  Thu May 20 17:54:36 2010
From: tygrrrnelson at gmail.com (Ty Nelson)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 08:54:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Images lose integrity and size changes.
Message-ID: <AANLkTikkmxDDtQBi4jxfSq4_JC1nvsISxdD_DLsjcJ-I@mail.gmail.com>

Pretty basic question, I'm hoping.  First of all-Hello everyone!  W hen
sending a newsletter out via mailman (postfix mta), what is the best method
for setting the images correctly and in the appropriate places.  Meaning,
sometimes they shift from where we originally placed them, and the entire
framework of the newsletter is compromised.  We have been using outlook to
build up the newsletters before sending them, but perhaps there is a better
method when it comes to using mailman.  Is there a trick to this, or is the
error on our end (which almost always seems the case)  :)

Thanks a ton!
-Tyler

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 20 18:27:58 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 09:27:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Images lose integrity and size changes.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikkmxDDtQBi4jxfSq4_JC1nvsISxdD_DLsjcJ-I@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005200927580000ba223efa@msapiro>

Ty Nelson wrote:

>Pretty basic question, I'm hoping.  First of all-Hello everyone!  W hen
>sending a newsletter out via mailman (postfix mta), what is the best method
>for setting the images correctly and in the appropriate places.  Meaning,
>sometimes they shift from where we originally placed them, and the entire
>framework of the newsletter is compromised.  We have been using outlook to
>build up the newsletters before sending them, but perhaps there is a better
>method when it comes to using mailman.  Is there a trick to this, or is the
>error on our end (which almost always seems the case)  :)


Check your content filtering settings. If this is a newsletter with
posts only from you or a controlled group, it's probably best to have
filter_content set to No, but if you are filtering content for some
reason, be sure collapse_alternatives is set to No.

If filter_content is No, and your newsletter is still altered, it could
be because of an added Mailman header and/or footer. If this is an
issue, make sure that Non-digest options msg_header and msg_footer are
empty (not just blank).

If filter_content is No and there is no msg_header or msg_footer, the
message delivered from Mailman should have exactly the same structure
and content as the post you send.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 20 20:19:29 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 11:19:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] does arch read plain text emails?
In-Reply-To: <4BF47556.30201@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC19520100520111929060958e5413e@msapiro>

 Robert Khachikyan wrote:

> I've recently installed mailman to migrate from majordomo. And in
> majoromo I save all emails in plain text. I have about 40000 emails to
> convert to mailman. And when I issue
> ~mailman/bin/arch dojo /home/mails/dojo/23048
>
> it returns:
>
> Pickling archive state into
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/dojo/pipermail.pck
>
> However, I do not see it on the web...


You don't see a web archive because you haven't added any messages. the
"Pickling archive state into ..." message is the last message from
bin/arch. Had it done anything, that would have been preceeded by many
other messages.


> How can I convert these emails to mailman?


The messages need to be in a unix like mbox format file. This means the
first line of each message should be a From_ separator, I.e. a line
like

  From user at example.com Wed May 19 16:33:42 2010

Followed by message headers which should at least include From:,
Subject: and Date:

followed by an empty line and then the plain text message as in


  From user at example.com Wed May 19 16:33:42 2010
  From: Jane User<user at example.com>
  Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 16:33:42 -0700
  Subject: An example

  Some message body text
  and more
  and more ...


and then the next message in the same format and so on. If your
messages have headers, you may only need to add the From_ lines at the
beginning of each message or you may need to employ some other process
to generate a mbox file from the majordomo archive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 21 15:20:58 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 06:20:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-loop and exim
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005170941470734a92ff7cd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC195201005210620580046b8428de8@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Roger Lynn wrote:
>
>>On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 08:27:29AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just add the
>>> 
>>> mailman-loop: /usr/local/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
>>> 
>>> alias to /etc/aliases and the system aliases router will take care of
>>> it.
[...]
>>
>>Is the necessity of adding the above line doumented anywhere in the 
>>installation instructions?
>
>
>No, unfortunately, it's not. I'll try to put something in the
>installation manual.



I have updated the installation manual. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/mail-server.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gregory.skipper at gmail.com  Fri May 21 00:22:11 2010
From: gregory.skipper at gmail.com (Greg Skipper, MD)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 17:22:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a feature that allows for rights to
	various levels of email?
Message-ID: <AANLkTikqMZ_sjFoyEX2NtHpYNCArwIATt8Sc-1LZJnQ5@mail.gmail.com>

I need to setup a listserv that allows for assigning rights to 2 or more
levels of priviledge (i.e. first level can receive from everyone, second
level can only read second class or thread responses from first class). Does
anyone know of such an option anywhere? Thanks

From pmoss4 at csc.com  Thu May 20 14:30:54 2010
From: pmoss4 at csc.com (Patricia A Moss)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 08:30:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Understanding Archiving
Message-ID: <OFD3CA7AEF.9A851C62-ON85257729.003E482D-85257729.0044BF8C@csc.com>

I am running mailman, version 2.1.5.1-34, on a RedHat, version 4.0, 
server.
I am trying to understand how archiving works and/or is set up and 
configured.
I need to understand the difference between the directory and the .txt 
file (i.e. Directory: "2009-December" and File: "2009-December.txt") 
located within my .../archives/private/mailman/ subdirectory.
My partition, that houses the archives, is running out of space.  I am 
trying to figure out what, if anything, I can clean up while I wait for 
approval for my new server.
Can someone please assist.  I have been searching the threads on the 
mailing list but can not seem to find the answer I seek.  Thanks, in 
advance.

PATI M
System Engineer Sr. Professional
CSC


From robertk at jpl.nasa.gov  Fri May 21 01:23:07 2010
From: robertk at jpl.nasa.gov (Robert Khachikyan)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 16:23:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] does arch read plain text emails?
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100520111929060958e5413e@msapiro>
References: <PC19520100520111929060958e5413e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BF5C45B.3010306@jpl.nasa.gov>

Thanks Mark. It sound like I'm gonna have to write a shell to add the 
 From line for each message. They all have the "From:", "Subject:", and 
"Date:" header, but not the very first line "From user at example.com <date>".

1 question. Does the <date> have to be a real date or it can contain 
dummy data?

(guess I can test this and wipe it out if it needs to be real).

Thanks,
--Robert


On 5/20/2010 11:19 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>   Robert Khachikyan wrote:
>
>    
>> I've recently installed mailman to migrate from majordomo. And in
>> majoromo I save all emails in plain text. I have about 40000 emails to
>> convert to mailman. And when I issue
>> ~mailman/bin/arch dojo /home/mails/dojo/23048
>>
>> it returns:
>>
>> Pickling archive state into
>> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/dojo/pipermail.pck
>>
>> However, I do not see it on the web...
>>      
>
> You don't see a web archive because you haven't added any messages. the
> "Pickling archive state into ..." message is the last message from
> bin/arch. Had it done anything, that would have been preceeded by many
> other messages.
>
>
>    
>> How can I convert these emails to mailman?
>>      
>
> The messages need to be in a unix like mbox format file. This means the
> first line of each message should be a From_ separator, I.e. a line
> like
>
>    From user at example.com Wed May 19 16:33:42 2010
>
> Followed by message headers which should at least include From:,
> Subject: and Date:
>
> followed by an empty line and then the plain text message as in
>
>
>    From user at example.com Wed May 19 16:33:42 2010
>    From: Jane User<user at example.com>
>    Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 16:33:42 -0700
>    Subject: An example
>
>    Some message body text
>    and more
>    and more ...
>
>
> and then the next message in the same format and so on. If your
> messages have headers, you may only need to add the From_ lines at the
> beginning of each message or you may need to employ some other process
> to generate a mbox file from the majordomo archive.
>
>    

From robertk at jpl.nasa.gov  Fri May 21 01:59:42 2010
From: robertk at jpl.nasa.gov (Robert Khachikyan)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 16:59:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] does arch read plain text emails?
In-Reply-To: <4BF5C45B.3010306@jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <PC19520100520111929060958e5413e@msapiro>
	<4BF5C45B.3010306@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <4BF5CCEE.7010103@jpl.nasa.gov>

Just an FYI to future users, my test indicates it can be dummy data. As 
long as it ^From

--Robert

On 5/20/2010 4:23 PM, Robert Khachikyan wrote:
> Thanks Mark. It sound like I'm gonna have to write a shell to add the
>   From line for each message. They all have the "From:", "Subject:", and
> "Date:" header, but not the very first line "From user at example.com<date>".
>
> 1 question. Does the<date>  have to be a real date or it can contain
> dummy data?
>
> (guess I can test this and wipe it out if it needs to be real).
>
> Thanks,
> --Robert
>
>
> On 5/20/2010 11:19 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>    
>>    Robert Khachikyan wrote:
>>
>>
>>      
>>> I've recently installed mailman to migrate from majordomo. And in
>>> majoromo I save all emails in plain text. I have about 40000 emails to
>>> convert to mailman. And when I issue
>>> ~mailman/bin/arch dojo /home/mails/dojo/23048
>>>
>>> it returns:
>>>
>>> Pickling archive state into
>>> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/dojo/pipermail.pck
>>>
>>> However, I do not see it on the web...
>>>
>>>        
>> You don't see a web archive because you haven't added any messages. the
>> "Pickling archive state into ..." message is the last message from
>> bin/arch. Had it done anything, that would have been preceeded by many
>> other messages.
>>
>>
>>
>>      
>>> How can I convert these emails to mailman?
>>>
>>>        
>> The messages need to be in a unix like mbox format file. This means the
>> first line of each message should be a From_ separator, I.e. a line
>> like
>>
>>     From user at example.com Wed May 19 16:33:42 2010
>>
>> Followed by message headers which should at least include From:,
>> Subject: and Date:
>>
>> followed by an empty line and then the plain text message as in
>>
>>
>>     From user at example.com Wed May 19 16:33:42 2010
>>     From: Jane User<user at example.com>
>>     Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 16:33:42 -0700
>>     Subject: An example
>>
>>     Some message body text
>>     and more
>>     and more ...
>>
>>
>> and then the next message in the same format and so on. If your
>> messages have headers, you may only need to add the From_ lines at the
>> beginning of each message or you may need to employ some other process
>> to generate a mbox file from the majordomo archive.
>>
>>
>>      

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 21 16:30:57 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 07:30:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a feature that allows for rights
	tovarious levels of email?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikqMZ_sjFoyEX2NtHpYNCArwIATt8Sc-1LZJnQ5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005210730570921420aee52@msapiro>

Greg Skipper, MD wrote:

>I need to setup a listserv


Please see <http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+is+not+Listserv>.


>that allows for assigning rights to 2 or more
>levels of priviledge (i.e. first level can receive from everyone, second
>level can only read second class or thread responses from first class). Does
>anyone know of such an option anywhere? Thanks


Mailman does not have any kind of support for this. I don't know if any
other MLM software does.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 21 17:05:46 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 08:05:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Understanding Archiving
In-Reply-To: <OFD3CA7AEF.9A851C62-ON85257729.003E482D-85257729.0044BF8C@csc.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005210805460468f90ce142@msapiro>

Patricia A Moss wrote:

>I am running mailman, version 2.1.5.1-34, on a RedHat, version 4.0, 
>server.
>I am trying to understand how archiving works and/or is set up and 
>configured.
>I need to understand the difference between the directory and the .txt 
>file (i.e. Directory: "2009-December" and File: "2009-December.txt") 
>located within my .../archives/private/mailman/ subdirectory.
>My partition, that houses the archives, is running out of space.  I am 
>trying to figure out what, if anything, I can clean up while I wait for 
>approval for my new server.
>Can someone please assist.  I have been searching the threads on the 
>mailing list but can not seem to find the answer I seek.  Thanks, in 
>advance.


If you look at the overall archive TOC for a list, you will see entries
like

May 2010:  [ Thread ][ Subject ][ Author ][ Date ] [ Text xx KB ]
April 2010:[ Thread ][ Subject ][ Author ][ Date ] [ Gzip'd Text xx KB ]

In the above, the [ Text xx KB ] link is to the 2010-May.txt file which
is a mailbox like file containing that month's messages. It is not the
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox cumulative mailbox which
contains all list posts and which can be used to rebuild everything in
the archives/private/LISTNAME directory.

The [ Gzip'd Text xx KB ] link is to the 2010-April.txt.gz file if
there is one.

The actual pipermail archive with the thread, subject, author and date
indices and all the nnnnnn.html message files, etc. is in the various
yyyy-Month/ directories.

If you are short on space, I recommend the following.

Comment out or remove from Mailman's crontab the cron/nightly_gzip
entry that makes the .txt.gz files, and make sure you do NOT have
GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES = Yes in mm_cfg.py.

Then you can remove all the .txt.gz files. They just take extra space
because the corresponding .txt files are there anyway. They may save a
little bandwidth, but it's insignificant.

If the archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments directory is large,
consider rebuilding the entire archive with bin/arch --wipe, although
it is a good idea to first check the LISTNAME.mbox file with
bin/cleanarch, and it is possible that this may result in archived
messages being renumbered, thus invalidating any saved archive URLs.
This may not happen, but if it is a concern, backup and test.

Rebuilding the archive may help because in the case of digestable
lists, each 'attachment' is scrubbed and stored twice, once when the
message is archived and once when the plain digest is produced.

For a temporary situation, you can remove anything other than the
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file, and reconstruct the
archive later with bin/arch --wipe.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat May 22 09:18:02 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 16:18:02 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a feature that allows for rights
	to	various levels of email?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikqMZ_sjFoyEX2NtHpYNCArwIATt8Sc-1LZJnQ5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikqMZ_sjFoyEX2NtHpYNCArwIATt8Sc-1LZJnQ5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87fx1kmml1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Greg Skipper, MD writes:

 > I need to setup a listserv that allows for assigning rights to 2 or
 > more levels of priviledge (i.e. first level can receive from
 > everyone, second level can only read second class or thread
 > responses from first class). Does anyone know of such an option
 > anywhere? Thanks

As Mark posted, I don't think this is possible within a single list in
any list manager, and in fact I don't think it would be a good idea to
try to handle it in a single list anyway (if I understand your
requirement correctly -- see the last paragraph for an alternative
interpretation where it's actually reasonably easy to come quite close
with a single Mailman list and any reasonably capable mail programs
being used by the privileged members).

The obvious way to handle this is to have two lists.  One is open only
to high-privilege subscribers (enforced by requiring a list admin's OK
to subscribe and private archives).  The other is open to the general
membership (in cases such as "open source" software development like
Mailman, anybody can subscribe, but it would also be possible to
restriction subscription and archive access to bona fide members in
the unprivileged list at the cost of increased administrative burden).

If a thread started on the privileged list is of general interest and
not sensitive, it can be moved manually to the unprivileged list,
simply by editing the address in the header.  If earlier posts are
needed for context, they can be manually forwarded.

Note that the scheme you describe will probably need some such
mechanism where the privileged members need to decide explicitly which
level of privilege they want to post to.  The two-list solution is a
well-known method used in many software development communities to
handle reports of security vulnerabilities.

I'd like to point out that your usage may end up very closely
approximating a common pattern with such security lists.  Namely, the
developers who actually work on security problems are subscribed to
both lists, but rarely start threads on the general list.  In that
case, you will get exactly the usage I undersetand from your
description: the privileged users post new threads visible only to the
privileged list members, unprivileged users' posts are visible to
everyone, and everyone's replies to posts to either list are
automatically directed to the right audience.

If some of the posts by unprivileged members might be sensitive, they
can be allowed to post to the privileged list.  The privileged members
will need to use reply-to-all to direct replies to both the
unprivileged member and the list.  (This is how software security
lists work -- most such issues are reported by third parties, who
often continue to provide information as the thread develops.)  Of
course directing the original post correctly is a slight burden on the
unprivileged members, but on they other hand they're the ones with the
privacy concern, and they have high motivation to get this right.
Naming the lists appropriately can help a lot; eg, in the software
vulnerability case, you have lists named "users at project.org" and
"security at project.org", which is pretty easy to figure out.  In the
case of a medical practice, you could use "discuss@" and "consult@"
(and you can probably do better than me, anyway, but that example is a
reasonable place to start, I hope).

Finally, if I misunderstood your requirements, and you don't need a
general discussion list at all, but what you want is for there to be a
single point of contact for the privileged members, but only the
privileged members and the original poster should see replies, a
single list with privileged members as subscribers but posting open to
non-subscribers, with replies using reply-to-all, would provide this
service.  In fact, there may be feature which does not require use of
reply-to-all already, but if not it would not be difficult to alter
Mailman to do this automatically, as well (that is, include any
non-members who are the author or recipient in the Reply-To list).

HTH,

From floeff at gmail.com  Sat May 22 15:17:06 2010
From: floeff at gmail.com (Florian Effenberger)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 15:17:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove moderator password from all lists
Message-ID: <AANLkTikCY0icvLevVY4jzn3Ogq-SFFR9muhsP9tMV6qh@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

is there any tool or script to remove the moderator passwords from all
mailing lists? I've lost the plot on which lists have a moderation
password and which don't, so I'd love to reset all of them.

Thanks,
Florian

From bmcgee at qeh2.com  Fri May 21 23:05:03 2010
From: bmcgee at qeh2.com (Ben McGee)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 15:05:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounceback from Another List
Message-ID: <9CF3C247E1BD8E4888186B5DD03A0C5978A0C0@QEH2S01.qeh2.local>

I have a fairly large Mailman Installation on Ubuntu server 9 with
several thousand subscribers and about a dozen lists.  When users post
to List1 they receive a bounce message from List2.  For example, the
list administrator receives this notice...

 

As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the

following mailing list posting:

 

   List:    list2 at lists.someserver.net 

   From:    listadmin at myemail.com 

   Subject: [List1] Testing 1 2 3

   Reason:  Message has implicit destination

 

At your convenience, visit:

 

   http://lists.someserver.net/listmanager/admindb/list2

 

to approve or deny the request.

 

... I have asked the list administrator to confirm that he is indeed
sending *only* to List1.  "Regular" users also get a rejection notice
from List2 when they post to List1.  List1 allows posting from all
subscribers, but List2 is limited to just a few specific email
addresses.

 

The MTA is exim4.  

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 22 16:01:12 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 07:01:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounceback from Another List
In-Reply-To: <9CF3C247E1BD8E4888186B5DD03A0C5978A0C0@QEH2S01.qeh2.local>
Message-ID: <PC195201005220701120734129b68aa@msapiro>

Ben McGee wrote:

>I have a fairly large Mailman Installation on Ubuntu server 9 with
>several thousand subscribers and about a dozen lists.  When users post
>to List1 they receive a bounce message from List2.  For example, the
>list administrator receives this notice...
[...]
>
>   Reason:  Message has implicit destination



List2 at example.com is a member of List1 at example.com

List2 has Privacy options... -> Recipient filters ->
require_explicit_destination set to Yes and Privacy options... ->
Recipient filters -> acceptable_aliases does not contain
List1 at example.com.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/boA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 22 16:09:40 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 07:09:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove moderator password from all lists
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikCY0icvLevVY4jzn3Ogq-SFFR9muhsP9tMV6qh@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005220709400031e3e8d287@msapiro>

Florian Effenberger wrote:
>
>is there any tool or script to remove the moderator passwords from all
>mailing lists? I've lost the plot on which lists have a moderation
>password and which don't, so I'd love to reset all of them.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/MIBp>. The input you want is

mod_password = None

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pmoss4 at csc.com  Mon May 24 13:34:31 2010
From: pmoss4 at csc.com (Patricia A Moss)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 07:34:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Understanding Archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005210805460468f90ce142@msapiro>
References: <OFD3CA7AEF.9A851C62-ON85257729.003E482D-85257729.0044BF8C@csc.com>
	<PC195201005210805460468f90ce142@msapiro>
Message-ID: <OFE46C3A19.E20C3602-ON8525772D.003E7C13-8525772D.003F9634@csc.com>

>If you look at the overall archive TOC for a list, you will see entries
>like
>
>May 2010:  [ Thread ][ Subject ][ Author ][ Date ] [ Text xx KB ]
>April 2010:[ Thread ][ Subject ][ Author ][ Date ] [ Gzip'd Text xx KB ]
I am not sure how to look at the TOC.  I didn't see it in either of the 
lists that I have.  Is it just a matter of physically looking at a 
specific file in the list directory?

>The [ Gzip'd Text xx KB ] link is to the 2010-April.txt.gz file if
>there is one.
I don't have any .gz files.


I have another question.  What is the difference between the following two 
directories:
...archives/private/<listname>/2009-December
...archives/private/<listname>/2009-December.txt
and
...archives/private/mailman/2009-December
...archives/private/mailman/2009-December.txt

The ...archives/private/mailman/ is much larger than the 
...archives/private/<listname>/ directory; but they seem to contain the 
same files.

Thank you,
PATI M.



From:
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
To:
Patricia A Moss/GIS/CSC at CSC, mailman-users at python.org
Date:
05/21/2010 11:05 AM
Subject:
Re: [Mailman-Users] Understanding Archiving



Patricia A Moss wrote:

>I am running mailman, version 2.1.5.1-34, on a RedHat, version 4.0, 
>server.
>I am trying to understand how archiving works and/or is set up and 
>configured.
>I need to understand the difference between the directory and the .txt 
>file (i.e. Directory: "2009-December" and File: "2009-December.txt") 
>located within my .../archives/private/mailman/ subdirectory.
>My partition, that houses the archives, is running out of space.  I am 
>trying to figure out what, if anything, I can clean up while I wait for 
>approval for my new server.
>Can someone please assist.  I have been searching the threads on the 
>mailing list but can not seem to find the answer I seek.  Thanks, in 
>advance.


If you look at the overall archive TOC for a list, you will see entries
like

May 2010:  [ Thread ][ Subject ][ Author ][ Date ] [ Text xx KB ]
April 2010:[ Thread ][ Subject ][ Author ][ Date ] [ Gzip'd Text xx KB ]

In the above, the [ Text xx KB ] link is to the 2010-May.txt file which
is a mailbox like file containing that month's messages. It is not the
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox cumulative mailbox which
contains all list posts and which can be used to rebuild everything in
the archives/private/LISTNAME directory.

The [ Gzip'd Text xx KB ] link is to the 2010-April.txt.gz file if
there is one.

The actual pipermail archive with the thread, subject, author and date
indices and all the nnnnnn.html message files, etc. is in the various
yyyy-Month/ directories.

If you are short on space, I recommend the following.

Comment out or remove from Mailman's crontab the cron/nightly_gzip
entry that makes the .txt.gz files, and make sure you do NOT have
GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES = Yes in mm_cfg.py.

Then you can remove all the .txt.gz files. They just take extra space
because the corresponding .txt files are there anyway. They may save a
little bandwidth, but it's insignificant.

If the archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments directory is large,
consider rebuilding the entire archive with bin/arch --wipe, although
it is a good idea to first check the LISTNAME.mbox file with
bin/cleanarch, and it is possible that this may result in archived
messages being renumbered, thus invalidating any saved archive URLs.
This may not happen, but if it is a concern, backup and test.

Rebuilding the archive may help because in the case of digestable
lists, each 'attachment' is scrubbed and stored twice, once when the
message is archived and once when the plain digest is produced.

For a temporary situation, you can remove anything other than the
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file, and reconstruct the
archive later with bin/arch --wipe.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 24 16:10:00 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 07:10:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Understanding Archiving
In-Reply-To: <OFE46C3A19.E20C3602-ON8525772D.003E7C13-8525772D.003F9634@csc.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010052407100001405c04bc0c@msapiro>

Patricia A Moss quoted me and wrote.
>
>>If you look at the overall archive TOC for a list, you will see entries
>>like
>>
>>May 2010:  [ Thread ][ Subject ][ Author ][ Date ] [ Text xx KB ]
>>April 2010:[ Thread ][ Subject ][ Author ][ Date ] [ Gzip'd Text xx KB ]
>I am not sure how to look at the TOC.  I didn't see it in either of the 
>lists that I have.  Is it just a matter of physically looking at a 
>specific file in the list directory?


It is the top level page in a list's archive. E.g. for this list, the
page at <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/> which would
also be the file archives/private/mailman-users/index.html.


>>The [ Gzip'd Text xx KB ] link is to the 2010-April.txt.gz file if
>>there is one.
>I don't have any .gz files.


OK. The good news is they're not taking up space. The bad news is you
can't recover space by removing them.


>I have another question.  What is the difference between the following two 
>directories:
>...archives/private/<listname>/2009-December
>...archives/private/<listname>/2009-December.txt
>and
>...archives/private/mailman/2009-December
>...archives/private/mailman/2009-December.txt
>
>The ...archives/private/mailman/ is much larger than the 
>...archives/private/<listname>/ directory; but they seem to contain the 
>same files.


The names are similar, but the content's are different.
archives/private/mailman/ is the archive of posts to the 'mailman'
site list and archives/private/<listname>/ is the archive of posts to
the <listname> list.

Every list's archive has the same structure, but the contents of the
files are different.

If the archive of your site (mailman) list is large, you might consider
not archiving that list, i.e., set Archiving Options -> archive to No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bmcgee at qeh2.com  Mon May 24 21:46:07 2010
From: bmcgee at qeh2.com (Ben McGee)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 13:46:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounceback from Another List
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005220701120734129b68aa@msapiro>
References: <9CF3C247E1BD8E4888186B5DD03A0C5978A0C0@QEH2S01.qeh2.local>
	<PC195201005220701120734129b68aa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9CF3C247E1BD8E4888186B5DD03A0C5978A1C2@QEH2S01.qeh2.local>


Ben McGee wrote:

>>I have a fairly large Mailman Installation on Ubuntu server 9 with
>>several thousand subscribers and about a dozen lists.  When users post
>>to List1 they receive a bounce message from List2.  For example, the
>>list administrator receives this notice...
> [...]
>>
>>   Reason:  Message has implicit destination



>List2 at example.com is a member of List1 at example.com

>List2 has Privacy options... -> Recipient filters ->
>require_explicit_destination set to Yes and Privacy options... ->
>Recipient filters -> acceptable_aliases does not contain
>List1 at example.com.


>See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/boA9>.

Thanks for the reply.  I have checked and double checked and
List2 at example.com is not a member of list1 at example.com in the membership
list.  Is there any other place I should check? From what I can tell
that is "the" list of members.  I've been through the FAQ and didn't
find anything there. 

As far as the privacy options go, that's what I want.  Members of list1
should not be allowed to post to list2, unless they are explicitly added
to list2.  

Do you think this could be an MTA problem (exim4)?  Has anybody seen an
issue like this with MailMan + Exim4?

Thanks again.



From jsekora at csail.mit.edu  Mon May 24 22:10:08 2010
From: jsekora at csail.mit.edu (Jay A. Sekora)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 16:10:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounceback from Another List
In-Reply-To: <9CF3C247E1BD8E4888186B5DD03A0C5978A1C2@QEH2S01.qeh2.local>
References: <9CF3C247E1BD8E4888186B5DD03A0C5978A0C0@QEH2S01.qeh2.local>
	<PC195201005220701120734129b68aa@msapiro>
	<9CF3C247E1BD8E4888186B5DD03A0C5978A1C2@QEH2S01.qeh2.local>
Message-ID: <1274731808.4425.376.camel@crystalline-entity.csail.mit.edu>

> Thanks for the reply.  I have checked and double checked and
> List2 at example.com is not a member of list1 at example.com in the membership
> list.  Is there any other place I should check? From what I can tell
> that is "the" list of members.  [...]

> Do you think this could be an MTA problem (exim4)?  Has anybody seen an
> issue like this with MailMan + Exim4?

Two possibilities come to mind:

(1) The aliases were set up incorrectly, so that mail sent to
list1 at example.com actually gets injected into list2 instead (or
in addition).

(2) An individual member of list1 is forwarding their mail to
list2.  (Depending on the servers the mail crossed on its way, that
might be obvious in the headers.)

Any chance one of those is the case?

Jay



From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon May 24 22:29:25 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 23:29:25 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman bug or browser behaviour?
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100306101323050087346d0b@msapiro>
References: <PC19520100306101323050087346d0b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1005242326220.4313@data.home>

Hi,

Reserecting an old thread.

On Sat, 6 Mar 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Geoff Shang wrote:
>>
>> I've noticed that if I go to pending Moderator requests and approve a
>> message from a particular user, if I leave the resulting page open which
>> says "Click here to reload this page" and another message from that user
>> comes through which requires approval, if I click to reload the page, the
>> message is automatically approved and I'm told there are no pending
>> requests.
>
>
> I think it is a bug, but I don't think the scenario is exactly as you
> describe.
>
> I think the second message from the same user arrives after you go to
> the pending requests page but before you submit the approval.

No.  I've confirmed this twice int he last week, once just now.  I'd read 
the Email copies of the new messages before I refreshed the page, so they 
definitely came in before.

> The underlying problem is that the data posted from the summary page
> says "apply the selected action to all messages from this user" rather
> than "apply the selected action to all messages from this user that
> were displayed on the page".

hmmm, doesn't explain why this should be the case if I hit the "Click here 
to reload this page" link.  Shouldn't that just refresh the list of 
pending tasks without processing anything?

Geoff.


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 24 22:35:32 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 13:35:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounceback from Another List
In-Reply-To: <9CF3C247E1BD8E4888186B5DD03A0C5978A1C2@QEH2S01.qeh2.local>
Message-ID: <PC1952010052413353209688cf15b28@msapiro>

Ben McGee wrote:
>
>Thanks for the reply.  I have checked and double checked and
>List2 at example.com is not a member of list1 at example.com in the membership
>list.  Is there any other place I should check? From what I can tell
>that is "the" list of members.  I've been through the FAQ and didn't
>find anything there. 
[...]
>Do you think this could be an MTA problem (exim4)?  Has anybody seen an
>issue like this with MailMan + Exim4?


There can be issues with Exim (and other MTAs) if one of the list names
looks like one of the administrative addresses for another list?.

Check your Exim logs which should tell you how the mail is getting to
List2.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 24 23:01:12 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 14:01:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman bug or browser behaviour?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1005242326220.4313@data.home>
Message-ID: <PC1952010052414011203597910c573@msapiro>

Geoff Shang wrote:
>
>On Sat, 6 Mar 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Geoff Shang wrote:
>>>
>>> I've noticed that if I go to pending Moderator requests and approve a
>>> message from a particular user, if I leave the resulting page open which
>>> says "Click here to reload this page" and another message from that user
>>> comes through which requires approval, if I click to reload the page, the
>>> message is automatically approved and I'm told there are no pending
>>> requests.
>>
>>
>> I think it is a bug, but I don't think the scenario is exactly as you
>> describe.
>>
>> I think the second message from the same user arrives after you go to
>> the pending requests page but before you submit the approval.
>
>No.  I've confirmed this twice int he last week, once just now.  I'd read 
>the Email copies of the new messages before I refreshed the page, so they 
>definitely came in before.


I think you may be confirming what I said. My scenario is as follows:

Message 1 from user arrives.

You go to the admindb page and see message 1.

Message 2 from user arrives.

You submit the admindb form approving message 1. Due to the bug,
message 2 is also approved even though it wasn't displayed on the page.

You click reload this page and there are no requests because both
messages were approved when you submitted the original form.


>> The underlying problem is that the data posted from the summary page
>> says "apply the selected action to all messages from this user" rather
>> than "apply the selected action to all messages from this user that
>> were displayed on the page".
>
>hmmm, doesn't explain why this should be the case if I hit the "Click here 
>to reload this page" link.  Shouldn't that just refresh the list of 
>pending tasks without processing anything?


Yes, but if message 2 were approved at the same time as message 1 even
though it wasn't displayed on the page, there would be no more pending
messages.

The scenario I describe is definitely a bug and is reported at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/533468> and the fix is
committed at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1227>.

If you have definitely confirmed a different scenario, i.e.:

Message 1 from user arrives.

You go to the admindb page and see message 1.

You submit the admindb form approving message 1 prior to the arrival of
message 2.

Message 2 from user arrives.

You click reload this page and there are no requests.

then this is not the bug I identified, and I don't know what the
problem is. As you note, simply clicking the reload this page link
does not do any updates, so message 2 had to be approved before you
did that.

Note that the difference between this scenario and mine above is
whether message 2 arrives after or before the submission of the form
approving message 1. In no case did I suggest that message 2 arrived
after you refreshed the page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mary.y.wang at boeing.com  Tue May 25 04:49:04 2010
From: mary.y.wang at boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 19:49:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman CGI Error-Group mismatch error
Message-ID: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC045898981A@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>

Hi,
I received the following error this morning. So I rerun configure again with the following command: ./configure --with-cgi-id=apache --prefix=/var/mailman.  I'm still getting the same error.  Is there any place that I can look for so that I can debug this problem better?   Perhaps, looking at the config history file or something.  Any other places that I can check the cause of this error?


"Mailman CGI error!!!

The Mailman CGI wrapper encountered a fatal error. This entry is being stored in your syslog:
Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the CGI
wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody", but
the system's web server executed the CGI script as
group "apache".  Try tweaking the web server to run the
script as group "nobody", or re-run configure,
providing the command line option `--with-cgi-gid=apache'."

Thanks
Mary



From tedtarg at jobstreet.com  Tue May 25 05:05:02 2010
From: tedtarg at jobstreet.com (Ted Targosz)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:05:02 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum hop count exceeded
Message-ID: <4BFB3E5E.2070804@jobstreet.com>

While not strictly a mailman question,  I'm having a problem with 
delivering mail to a few list members because their mail server sees our 
mail man messages as having too many hops.

my mailman server is behind a Anti-Spam Anti-Virus Gateway Email Server 
using Postfix, Amavisd-new, SpamAssassin, Razor, DCC, Pyzor and ClamAV

similar to one describe here http://www200.pair.com/mecham/spam/   or 
here  http://www.freespamfilter.org/about.html

and it works great,  except that this gateway and amavisd  adds a few 
internal hops to the incoming message as does my Mailman server so that 
by the time it gets back out to the list member, its carrying quite a 
lengthy hop count... and if the list member's mail server also has some 
internal hops or has the maximum hop count set pretty low..then pretty 
soon they hit

Remote host said: 554 Maximum hop count exceeded. Possible loop.

Obviously i can request that the list member's email administrator 
loosen their hop count criteria, but these guys are usually not top of 
the class administrators...  and I don't want to hunt them down one by 
one...

so I was wondering if anyone else had encountered this and knew of a 
workaround (besides bypassing the gateway)

-- 

Ted Targosz
Business Development/Operations Manager
Jobstreet.com
Phone: 604-6445131  (Mayang Mall)
Mobile Phone: 6012-2063600
Fax: 604-6428653
email: tedtarg at jobstreet.com
skype ID: tedtarg


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Tue May 25 05:19:20 2010
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 22:19:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum hop count exceeded
In-Reply-To: <4BFB3E5E.2070804@jobstreet.com>
References: <4BFB3E5E.2070804@jobstreet.com>
Message-ID: <4BFB41B8.6070509@riverviewtech.net>

Ted Targosz wrote:
> so I was wondering if anyone else had encountered this and knew of a 
> workaround (besides bypassing the gateway)

I've not run in to this my self (with Mailman).  But what you say makes 
perfect sense.

If you are not pruning Received: headers as you pass your messages in to 
Mailman, they may be counted as extra headers contributing to the loop 
detection cludge.

So, you might want to make sure that you aren't artificially raising 
your hop count with the Received: headers of the messages coming in to 
Mailman.



Grant. . . .

From tedtarg at jobstreet.com  Tue May 25 06:48:25 2010
From: tedtarg at jobstreet.com (Ted Targosz)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 12:48:25 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum hop count exceeded
In-Reply-To: <4BFB41B8.6070509@riverviewtech.net>
References: <4BFB3E5E.2070804@jobstreet.com>
	<4BFB41B8.6070509@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <4BFB5699.9040400@jobstreet.com>

Grant,

Thank you very much...  your advice appears to be spot on...

I've added a header_check to my postfix configuration on my mailman 
server to prune the headers from my internal gateway before they are 
passed to mailman.

something  like

/^Received:  from localhost/    IGNORE
/^Received: from mygateway.mydomain.com/  IGNORE

that appears to help a lot ...

Thanks!

Ted Targosz



On 25/5/2010 11:19 AM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> Ted Targosz wrote:
>> so I was wondering if anyone else had encountered this and knew of a 
>> workaround (besides bypassing the gateway)
>
> I've not run in to this my self (with Mailman).  But what you say 
> makes perfect sense.
>
> If you are not pruning Received: headers as you pass your messages in 
> to Mailman, they may be counted as extra headers contributing to the 
> loop detection cludge.
>
> So, you might want to make sure that you aren't artificially raising 
> your hop count with the Received: headers of the messages coming in to 
> Mailman.
>
>
>
> Grant. . . .
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/tedtarg%40jobstreet.com 
>
>

-- 

Ted Targosz
Business Development/Operations Manager
Jobstreet.com
Phone: 604-6445131  (Mayang Mall)
Mobile Phone: 6012-2063600
Fax: 604-6428653
email: tedtarg at jobstreet.com
skype ID: tedtarg


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue May 25 06:55:13 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 13:55:13 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum hop count exceeded
In-Reply-To: <4BFB41B8.6070509@riverviewtech.net>
References: <4BFB3E5E.2070804@jobstreet.com>
	<4BFB41B8.6070509@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <87typwlgwe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Grant Taylor writes:

 > If you are not pruning Received: headers as you pass your messages in to 
 > Mailman, they may be counted as extra headers contributing to the loop 
 > detection cludge.

But pruning Received headers has the disadvantage that you can't
detect real loops caused by some bonehead with the list in his
.forward (or more likely a broken MTA config).


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 25 14:53:34 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 05:53:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman CGI Error-Group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC045898981A@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005250553340140951002ae@msapiro>

Wang, Mary Y wrote:
>
>I received the following error this morning. So I rerun configure again with the following command: ./configure --with-cgi-id=apache --prefix=/var/mailman.


It the above a typo? The correct option is --with-cgi-gid=apache, not
--with-cgi-id=apache.

If you actually gave the correct option to configure, did you also run

make clean
make install

after rerunning configure?


>I'm still getting the same error.  Is there any place that I can look for so that I can debug this problem better?   Perhaps, looking at the config history file or something.  Any other places that I can check the cause of this error?


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/tYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From greg at headingup.net  Tue May 25 05:22:13 2010
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 20:22:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Confirmation to Welcome Delay
Message-ID: <000601cafbb9$7840e1c0$68c2a540$@net>

Hey There,

 

We are using mailman to support a 5,000 person distribution list.  The
majority of our interactions with users is by email between the users and
the mailman software - humans do not get involved.  The way our software is
configured, the users see the following sequence to subscribe to our email
list:

 

1.       Web form is filled out to subscribe by user

2.       Sever generates an email to the user to confirm the subscription
request

3.       User replies to the subscription confirmation to the server -
typically hitting "Reply" and then "Send"

4.       The user receives a "Welcome" to the mailing list email

 

Our users are seeing a delay of 15 minutes between step 3 and step 4 above.
Many times this delay is too much for our users to handle or confusing.
This is especially the case when the time between step 1 and step 2 above is
generally less than one minute.  This delay between steps 3 and 4 many times
results in the user sending an email to our webmaster - instead of waiting
out the 15 minute delay.

 

Is it possible for the timing between step 3 and step 4 to be decreased?  We
have plenty of available server capacity available if this is a concern for
some reason.

 

Thanks, Greg


From jik at kamens.brookline.ma.us  Tue May 25 04:32:39 2010
From: jik at kamens.brookline.ma.us (Jonathan Kamens)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 22:32:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Solving the MIME message footer problem
Message-ID: <4BFB36C7.4020209@kamens.brookline.ma.us>

Greetings,

The owner of one of the Mailman mailing lists I administer recently 
asked me to add an important footer to the bottom of every message sent 
out to the list.

I added the footer to the list's configuration, but shortly afterwards, 
he complained to me that he was not seeing it in messages sent to the list.

This, of course, was the result of the problem that is often reported 
here, i.e., that Mailman adds the footer as a separate part of multipart 
MIME messages, and although the footer is marked for inline content 
disposition, many email clients (most notably Outlook) fail to display 
it inline, and instead display it as a text attachment to the message.

This problem is described in detail on the Mailman Wiki 
<http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030707>.  There is a 
link there to a solution 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-February/017850.html> 
submitted to the Mailman developers for consideration over five years 
ago, but unfortunately they rejected it and the patches are stale and 
incompatible with the current stable Mailman version.

When this problem is brought up on this list and elsewhere, people often 
mention that a tool such as mimedefang could be used to solve it.  
That's true, but nobody ever seems to provide the details of exactly how 
to do it.  That's probably because it isn't obvious.

I've just finished implementing a generic solution that will work 
out-of-the-box with standard versions of mimedefang and Mailman and only 
requires you to edit your mimedefang filter configuration once -- after 
that, you can enable this solution merely by editing the configuration 
of a Mailman list to add some special tokens to the footer setting to 
tell mimedefang to do the right thing.

You can read the documentation of my solution here 
<http://stuff.mit.edu/%7Ejik/software/mailman_mimedefang/> or download 
it here 
<http://stuff.mit.edu/%7Ejik/software/mailman_mimedefang/mailman_mimedefang_fix_footer.pl.txt>.  
I love to hear from people who are using my software, so please email me 
and let me know if you find it useful.  Please also email me if you have 
any questions, suggestions, bug reports, fixes or enhancements to share.

Regards,

Jonathan Kamens


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Tue May 25 15:42:05 2010
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 08:42:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Confirmation to Welcome Delay
In-Reply-To: <000601cafbb9$7840e1c0$68c2a540$@net>
References: <000601cafbb9$7840e1c0$68c2a540$@net>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.64.1005250838240.33648@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Mon, 24 May 2010, Greg Sims wrote:

> We are using mailman to support a 5,000 person distribution list.  The
> majority of our interactions with users is by email between the users and
> the mailman software - humans do not get involved.  The way our software is
> configured, the users see the following sequence to subscribe to our email
> list:
>
> 1.       Web form is filled out to subscribe by user
> 2.       Sever generates an email to the user to confirm the subscription
> request
> 3.       User replies to the subscription confirmation to the server -
> typically hitting "Reply" and then "Send"
> 4.       The user receives a "Welcome" to the mailing list email
>
> Our users are seeing a delay of 15 minutes between step 3 and step 4 above.
> Many times this delay is too much for our users to handle or confusing.
> This is especially the case when the time between step 1 and step 2 above is
> generally less than one minute.  This delay between steps 3 and 4 many times
> results in the user sending an email to our webmaster - instead of waiting
> out the 15 minute delay.

That does not sound like a Mailman issue but rather a mail delivery issue 
to your mail server. Is the mail server doing greylisting? That would 
cause the confirmation email to initially be deferred by the receiving 
mail server, then accepted the next time the sending server attempts to 
send it. How long until the next attempt to send is controlled by the 
sending server so I doubt they're all exactly 15 minutes.

If it's not that, you will need to look at your logs (both mailman and the 
mail server) to figure out where the delay is being introduced.

-- Larry Stone
    lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk  Tue May 25 16:15:22 2010
From: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk (Steff Watkins)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 15:15:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Confirmation to Welcome Delay
In-Reply-To: <000601cafbb9$7840e1c0$68c2a540$@net>
References: <000601cafbb9$7840e1c0$68c2a540$@net>
Message-ID: <8A17F10FEBA5C841956578C5AD9027D3141855@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces On Behalf Of Greg Sims
> Sent: 25 May 2010 04:22
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Confirmation to Welcome Delay
> 
> Hey There,

> 1.       Web form is filled out to subscribe by user
> 
> 2.       Sever generates an email to the user to confirm the 
> subscription
> request
> 
> 3.       User replies to the subscription confirmation to the server -
> typically hitting "Reply" and then "Send"
> 
> 4.       The user receives a "Welcome" to the mailing list email
 
 
> Is it possible for the timing between step 3 and step 4 to be 
> decreased?  We have plenty of available server capacity 
> available if this is a concern for some reason.

Hi,

 I initially thought that this might be due to one of the mailman
cronjobs but looking through the crontab made me realise that that
probably wasn't so.

Have you got a complete copy of one of these "delayed/deferred" emails?
If so, have you had a look at the mail envelope/headers to see where the
email is actually being delayed?

It does sound like something may be deferring the outbound emails. Are
they sent from the same email user as is listed on the emails generated
by the web form submissions? Without the headers from one of the delayed
emails determinign which part of the delivery process needs
tweaking/kicking is going to be difficult.

Regards,
Steff
---------------
Steff Watkins				Natural History Museum, Cromwell
Road, London, SW7 5BD
Systems programmer			Email: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk 
Systems Team				Phone: +44 (0)20 7942 6000 opt 2
========
Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake
in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that
even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have
left the oceans. - HHGTTG  

From floeff at gmail.com  Tue May 25 16:36:23 2010
From: floeff at gmail.com (Florian Effenberger)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 16:36:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove moderator password from all lists
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005220709400031e3e8d287@msapiro>
References: <AANLkTikCY0icvLevVY4jzn3Ogq-SFFR9muhsP9tMV6qh@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201005220709400031e3e8d287@msapiro>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin3_FSEtYZDjcs4sIRLklmB47iLbUOLCw28u48Z@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

2010/5/22 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:

>>is there any tool or script to remove the moderator passwords from all
>>mailing lists? I've lost the plot on which lists have a moderation
>>password and which don't, so I'd love to reset all of them.
>
> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/MIBp>. The input you want is
>
> mod_password = None

thanks a lot! Can the normal list administration password also be
changed via that way, and if so, which parameter do I need to use?
password = (without mod)?

Thanks!
Florian

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 25 17:18:52 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 08:18:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove moderator password from all lists
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin3_FSEtYZDjcs4sIRLklmB47iLbUOLCw28u48Z@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005250818520515d059e7f7@msapiro>

Florian Effenberger wrote:
>
>2010/5/22 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
>
>>>is there any tool or script to remove the moderator passwords from all
>>>mailing lists? I've lost the plot on which lists have a moderation
>>>password and which don't, so I'd love to reset all of them.
>>
>> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/MIBp>. The input you want is
>>
>> mod_password = None
>
>thanks a lot! Can the normal list administration password also be
>changed via that way, and if so, which parameter do I need to use?
>password = (without mod)?


To set the list admin password you can use

password = 'value'

but value is a sha digest of the plain text password. In order to set
the plain text password, you would need the input to config_list to be
something like

from Mailman.Utils import sha_new
password = sha_new('new_password').hexdigest()

but this will only work with Mailman 2.1.12 and later. For older
mailman, this needs to be

import sha
password = sha.new('new_password').hexdigest()

but this will issue a deprecation warning with Python 2.6.x, but it
will work.

Or, you could just generate the sha digest of the plain text password
separately and set that value.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Tue May 25 17:56:46 2010
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:56:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeking Email Client Recommendation - Specific
 use	scenario
In-Reply-To: <4BF4AC65.5080008@tuunq.com>
References: <p06240820c81a06870356@[192.168.201.53]>
	<4BF4A012.8010103@msapiro.net> <4BF4AC65.5080008@tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <p06240814c821a30efdcc@[192.168.201.53]>

Thanks to all for your comments; there is a clear consensus around Thunderbird.

To follow on, then, does anyone here have any experience with the 
open-source version of Eudora, which is based on Thunderbird, and 
uses the Penelope engine?  I know it is still in Beta, but it would 
be lovely to just have my users upgrade to the newest version.

Thanks Again,
Drew Tenenholz

>One thing I will mention about thunderbird-  IMNSHO, version 3 is 
>bad news.  I use it, but there are several obvious things that don't 
>work well or correctly (list omitted as being off-topic). I haven't 
>been annoyed enough to drop back a version, but some people have. Go 
>with version 2 unless 3 has a feature that you really need.
>
>z!
>

From mwelch at redwoodalliance.org  Tue May 25 18:45:32 2010
From: mwelch at redwoodalliance.org (Michael Welch)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 09:45:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation approval glitch
Message-ID: <20100525170121.A8BDBEE983@mail.python.org>

Just had a very odd occurrence. I have a handful of users on moderation, for various reasons.

I received a single moderation notice for one of them, and after reading the user's text, went to the web site to approve it. There was only one message there for approval. I approved the message, and it was sent -- but here's the glitch: it got sent along with another separate message from him.

Then in my next mail check there was the second moderation request, which never showed up for approval on the web site.

Somehow, Mailman got confused and approved both messages. I looked, and his moderation flag is still on. And about 10 minutes later he posted again, and it required my approval as normal.

version 2.1.12 hosted by DreamHost.


- - - - - - - - - - - -
Michael Welch, volunteer
Redwood Alliance
PO Box 293
Arcata, CA 95518
707-822-7884
mwelch at redwoodalliance.org
www.redwoodalliance.org



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 25 19:15:35 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 10:15:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation approval glitch
In-Reply-To: <20100525170121.A8BDBEE983@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201005251015350812d059e90f@msapiro>

Michael Welch wrote:
>
>I received a single moderation notice for one of them, and after reading the user's text, went to the web site to approve it. There was only one message there for approval. I approved the message, and it was sent -- but here's the glitch: it got sent along with another separate message from him.
>
>Then in my next mail check there was the second moderation request, which never showed up for approval on the web site.
>
>Somehow, Mailman got confused and approved both messages. I looked, and his moderation flag is still on. And about 10 minutes later he posted again, and it required my approval as normal.


This is a bug and is reported at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/533468> and the fix is
committed at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1227>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Tue May 25 19:21:34 2010
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 17:21:34 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] acknolegement of accepted messages..
Message-ID: <COL105-W77AC4DF5294DFFB867B90FBE80@phx.gbl>


Hello guys..

 

is there a way to let the list owner or moderator to get an email telling him that a message has been approved and distributed to the list ??

 

Thanks..
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969

From jik at kamens.brookline.ma.us  Tue May 25 19:43:53 2010
From: jik at kamens.brookline.ma.us (Jonathan Kamens)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 13:43:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] acknolegement of accepted messages..
In-Reply-To: <COL105-W77AC4DF5294DFFB867B90FBE80@phx.gbl>
References: <COL105-W77AC4DF5294DFFB867B90FBE80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <005301cafc31$db1e8d10$915ba730$@kamens.brookline.ma.us>

>>>is there a way to let the list owner or moderator to get an email telling
him that a message has been approved and distributed to the list ??

Um, can't s/he just subscribe to the list?

  jik



From mary.y.wang at boeing.com  Tue May 25 19:21:03 2010
From: mary.y.wang at boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 10:21:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to tell ./mailmanctl to pick a specific
 directory for the python?
Message-ID: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC045898998F@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>

Hi,

I just did ./mailmanctl start, and I looked at the processes of the qrunner:
1 S mailman  29354     1  0  76   0    -  2202 wait4  May24 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python ./mailmanctl start
0 S mailman  23035 29354  0  75   0    -  2059 schedu 10:14 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
0 S mailman  23036 29354  0  75   0    -  2076 schedu 10:14 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
0 S mailman  23037 29354  0  75   0    -  2060 schedu 10:14 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
0 S mailman  23038 29354  0  75   0    -  2057 schedu 10:14 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
0 S mailman  23039 29354  0  75   0    -  2067 schedu 10:14 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
0 S mailman  23040 29354  0  75   0    -  2093 schedu 10:14 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
0 S mailman  23041 29354  0  75   0    -  2070 schedu 10:14 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
0 S mailman  23042 29354  0  81   0    -  2065 schedu 10:14 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
0 S root     23083 15549  0  75   0    -   920 pipe_w 10:15 pts/7    00:00:00 grep mailman

It's using the python from the /usr/bin/ direcotry, but I wanted  it to use python from another directory - /opt/ActivePython-2.5/bin. How do I tell it to do that?

Mary





From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 25 19:56:57 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 10:56:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to tell ./mailmanctl to pick a
	specificdirectory for the python?
In-Reply-To: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC045898998F@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201005251056570734cd11e8d7@msapiro>

Wang, Mary Y wrote:
>
>It's using the python from the /usr/bin/ direcotry, but I wanted  it to use python from another directory - /opt/ActivePython-2.5/bin. How do I tell it to do that?


Reconfigure and specify --with-python=/opt/ActivePython-2.5/bin/python

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From robertk at jpl.nasa.gov  Tue May 25 20:55:32 2010
From: robertk at jpl.nasa.gov (Robert Khachikyan)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:55:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to put date & sequence in body?
Message-ID: <4BFC1D24.5000004@jpl.nasa.gov>

Dear Mailman Guru's,

How can I prepend the body of each email with say:

******************************************************************************
DOJO Email Report   23 Feb 10:49:06 PST 2010      Message Number 18316
******************************************************************************

So here we have the list name (well list name is dojo, but i want to say 
dojo email report), the date, and the sequence number.

This will go on top of the email's body. Any ideas?

Thanks,
--Robert

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue May 25 21:09:31 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 20:09:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to put date & sequence in body?
In-Reply-To: <4BFC1D24.5000004@jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <4BFC1D24.5000004@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <20100525190931.GE10132@amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:55:32AM -0700, Robert Khachikyan wrote:
> How can I prepend the body of each email with say:
> ******************************************************************************
> DOJO Email Report   23 Feb 10:49:06 PST 2010      Message Number 18316
> ******************************************************************************

The only way I can think of doing this is to generate a header file
periodically, and pass the contents of the generated file to
config_list as a "msg_header" setting

As for the message number, I'm not too sure how to go about with this:
I can't think of a canonical way to do that; unless 

either
    *   all posts are moderated, and you generate the message
        number from the list's mbox.
    *   that new posts don't happen between runs of $generating
        script
or
unless your MTA writes something at SMTP time building the message
number, or if you increment after delivery.

I think I would use something at SMTP time, were this me. 

Quite why I'd create a "Message Number", when there should be a
Message-Id: header, I'm unsure of.

-- 
The trouble with the rat race is that, even if you win, you're still a rat

From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Tue May 25 22:06:16 2010
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 15:06:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum hop count exceeded
In-Reply-To: <4BFB5699.9040400@jobstreet.com>
References: <4BFB3E5E.2070804@jobstreet.com>	<4BFB41B8.6070509@riverviewtech.net>
	<4BFB5699.9040400@jobstreet.com>
Message-ID: <4BFC2DB8.7040300@riverviewtech.net>

On 05/24/10 23:48, Ted Targosz wrote:
> Thank you very much...  your advice appears to be spot on...

You are welcome.

> I've added a header_check to my postfix configuration on my mailman 
> server to prune the headers from my internal gateway before they are 
> passed to mailman.
...
> that appears to help a lot ...

Good.

> Thanks!

;-)



Grant. . . .

From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Tue May 25 22:08:57 2010
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 15:08:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum hop count exceeded
In-Reply-To: <87typwlgwe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <4BFB3E5E.2070804@jobstreet.com>	<4BFB41B8.6070509@riverviewtech.net>
	<87typwlgwe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4BFC2E59.70001@riverviewtech.net>

On 05/24/10 23:55, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> But pruning Received headers has the disadvantage that you can't 
> detect real loops caused by some bonehead with the list in his 
> .forward (or more likely a broken MTA config).

You are correct, that is a theoretical possibility.

But depending on the routing of mail messages, I'm not sure that this 
would be the case.

Even if it was, we would be talking about a loop of what flows through 
Mailman.  And unless I am mistaken, I think Mailman has another header, 
"X-BeenThere:" to detect this very problem.

So, I think in reality things will be ok.

But this is still something to keep in mind and be mindful for in the 
future.



Grant. . . .

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 25 23:19:37 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 14:19:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to put date & sequence in body?
In-Reply-To: <4BFC1D24.5000004@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1952010052514193707034f1ee8a4@msapiro>

Robert Khachikyan wrote:
>
>How can I prepend the body of each email with say:
>
>******************************************************************************
>DOJO Email Report   23 Feb 10:49:06 PST 2010      Message Number 18316
>******************************************************************************
>
>So here we have the list name (well list name is dojo, but i want to say 
>dojo email report), the date, and the sequence number.
>
>This will go on top of the email's body. Any ideas?


You would need to implement both a custom list attribute for the
sequence number, and a custom handler to maintain the sequence number
and to add the header to the message body.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> for information on
implementing a custom handler.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed May 26 04:11:48 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 11:11:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum hop count exceeded
In-Reply-To: <4BFC2E59.70001@riverviewtech.net>
References: <4BFB3E5E.2070804@jobstreet.com>
	<4BFB41B8.6070509@riverviewtech.net>
	<87typwlgwe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<4BFC2E59.70001@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <87mxvnl8d7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Grant Taylor writes:

 > Even if it was, we would be talking about a loop of what flows through 
 > Mailman.  And unless I am mistaken, I think Mailman has another header, 
 > "X-BeenThere:" to detect this very problem.

Detect is one thing, fix is another.

Certainly it makes sense to cut out all but one of the "received"
headers for the list host, though, since you'll have MTA logs to trace
that.



From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed May 26 05:41:48 2010
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 22:41:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum hop count exceeded
In-Reply-To: <87mxvnl8d7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <4BFB3E5E.2070804@jobstreet.com>	<4BFB41B8.6070509@riverviewtech.net>	<87typwlgwe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<4BFC2E59.70001@riverviewtech.net>
	<87mxvnl8d7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4BFC987C.2020201@riverviewtech.net>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Detect is one thing, fix is another.

Um, unless I'm mistaken, Mailman will not accept a message in to a 
mailing list if the header exists and has the list in question listed in 
said header.

In other words, that's Mailman's loop detection to make sure that a 
subscribed email address does not get re-routed in to the mailing list, 
forming a nasty loop.

So, I think this does "fix" this problem.

> Certainly it makes sense to cut out all but one of the "received" 
> headers for the list host, though, since you'll have MTA logs to trace 
> that.

Well, unless the mail logs include all the contents of the Received: 
headers, not everything would be logged.

Sure, the system that the message was (directly) received from would be 
logged, but none of the earlier Received: headers.

I've never had a need to do so, but I have considered (and thought about 
how to do so) a pre-Mailman archive on the server that includes the full 
headers as they would go in to Mailman (or formail that would remove 
headers).



Grant. . . .

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed May 26 09:35:25 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 16:35:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum hop count exceeded
In-Reply-To: <4BFC987C.2020201@riverviewtech.net>
References: <4BFB3E5E.2070804@jobstreet.com>
	<4BFB41B8.6070509@riverviewtech.net>
	<87typwlgwe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<4BFC2E59.70001@riverviewtech.net>
	<87mxvnl8d7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<4BFC987C.2020201@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <87iq6bktdu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Grant Taylor writes:

 > So, I think this does "fix" this problem.

It fixes it for the Mailman host, yes.  It's still wasting some
bandwidth and may indicate more serious problems on an intermediate
host.  Typically it's not a problem at either the last hop or the
apparent sender, so quite painful to trace in the absence of headers.

 > > Certainly it makes sense to cut out all but one of the "received" 
 > > headers for the list host, though, since you'll have MTA logs to trace 
 > > that.

 > Sure, the system that the message was (directly) received from would be 
 > logged, but none of the earlier Received: headers.

Actually, I'm talking about this kind of thing:

  Received: from shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.97.253]
	by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.17)
	for <steve at localhost> (single-drop); Wed, 26 May 2010 13:00:01 +0900 (JST)
  Received: from imss02.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp (imss02.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.254.151])
	by mngs02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BE1D4E9E
	for <turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>; Wed, 26 May 2010 12:42:41 +0900 (JST)
  Received: from imss02.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp (imss02.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp [127.0.0.1])
	by postfix.imss70 (Postfix) with ESMTP id 494ADF4005
	for <turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>; Wed, 26 May 2010 12:42:41 +0900 (JST)
  Received-SPF: none (imss02.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp: 207.172.156.132 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of python.org) client-ip=207.172.156.132; envelope-from=mailman-users-bounces+stephen=xemacs.org at python.org; helo=yamx.invalid;
  Received: from yamx.invalid (yamx.invalid [10.0.0.1])
	by imss02.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6983F4004
	for <turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>; Wed, 26 May 2010 12:42:40 +0900 (JST)

where the top three Receiveds would really not give me any useful
information beyond what I can get from logs in the tsukuba.ac.jp
domain.

Stripping three of the four headers might be worthwhile in the OP's
case.

From dougggaff at yahoo.com  Tue May 25 15:58:30 2010
From: dougggaff at yahoo.com (Doug Gaff)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 09:58:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] private lists with real name signatures
Message-ID: <04a101cafc12$5bc13500$13439f00$@com>

Hello all,

 

Sorry if I missed this in the FAQ. I'm a heavy user/admin of mailman, but
this is the first time I've had "anonymous_list" set to Yes.

 

The request I'm getting from list members is to have their "Real Name"
displayed but not their email address. I see two ways to do this:

 

1.       The "on behalf of" text in the header could put the real name only
and not the email address.

2.       An auto signature can be appended to the end of each sent message.

 

I can't find any settings in the admin interface to do this, though. Does
anyone have any advice?

 

Doug

 

 

 


From kblackie at resourcecad.com  Tue May 25 22:14:17 2010
From: kblackie at resourcecad.com (Keith Blackie)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 16:14:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce notification not handled normally
Message-ID: <D868A3D4A4304DD59FD297D3976DCFC6@Keith>

I have a situation where subscriber email addresses are being bounced after 
the failed address has been forwarded to an autoresponder. The problem is 
that the mailman strips the sender's address out of the response before it 
is sent to the administrator for action.

On the mailing list, I have the unsubscribe threshold set to 3 bounces, but 
the email response (bounce), while being recognized as a bounce, it 
processed as a post to the mailing list and is subsequently sent out to all 
list members, further, the sender is stripped from the headers and I cannot 
identify which account it comes from, since the autoresponder does not 
follow the usual process of identifying the offending mailbox in the body of 
the autoresponse.

I hope this is clear, and that I can find some configuration that resolves 
the issue ... previously to identify one of these email addresses, I had to 
send an email, then immediately unsubscribe everyone from the mailing list 
and let mailman respond with an unhandled bounce notification, only then was 
I able to identify the offending address ... but then I had to re-subscribe 
every list member, and while it only takes a minute to do so it is a real 
pain.

Thanks!

Keith 



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 26 17:14:39 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 08:14:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] private lists with real name signatures
In-Reply-To: <04a101cafc12$5bc13500$13439f00$@com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100526081439031261066bdf@msapiro>

Doug Gaff wrote:
>
>The request I'm getting from list members is to have their "Real Name"
>displayed but not their email address. I see two ways to do this:
>
> 
>
>1.       The "on behalf of" text in the header could put the real name only
>and not the email address.


The "on behalf of" text is just MS Outlook's (and some other MUAs lik
Hotmail) way of displaying the From: header when there is a Sender:
header. In any case, Mailman's way of handling the From: in an
anonymous list is to make it "List description
<list_posting_address>". Replacing the list description with the
poster's name would require modifying the code in
Mailman/Handlers/Cleanse.py.


>2.       An auto signature can be appended to the end of each sent message.


Here you could create a custom handler (see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>). If the message's metadata contains a
dictionary named decoration-data, that dictionary is used to update
the replacements available for msg_header and msg_footer. Thus if the
custom handler were in the pipeline prior to Cleanse, i.e. prior to
the replacement of the From: header, it could be something like:

from email.Utils import parseaddr
def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    poster_name = parseaddr(msg['from'])[0]
    if 'decoration-data' in msgdata:
        msgdata['decoration-data']['poster_name'] = poster_name
    else:
        msgdata['decoration-data'] = {'poster_name': poster_name}

This would add %(poster_name)s to the replacements available for
msg_header and msg_footer, and its value would be the real name part
of the From: address of the original post or the empty string if there
wasn't a real name in the From:

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 26 17:49:40 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 08:49:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce notification not handled normally
In-Reply-To: <D868A3D4A4304DD59FD297D3976DCFC6@Keith>
Message-ID: <PC1952010052608494009068c536972@msapiro>

Keith Blackie wrote:

>I have a situation where subscriber email addresses are being bounced after 
>the failed address has been forwarded to an autoresponder. The problem is 
>that the mailman strips the sender's address out of the response before it 
>is sent to the administrator for action.
>
>On the mailing list, I have the unsubscribe threshold set to 3 bounces, but 
>the email response (bounce), while being recognized as a bounce, it 
>processed as a post to the mailing list and is subsequently sent out to all 
>list members,


So what you have is some list member address is delivered to some MUA
that returns a DSN or other message to the list posting address which
presumably it gets from the To: header of the message it received or
possibly from the Reply-To: if your list sets the Reply-To: to go to
the list.

Thus, Mailman's bounce processing does not appear to be involved at all
since the 'bounce' is not sent to the listname-bounces address.

Also, if the above is the correct scenario, and the message is being
held as a non-member post or for some other reason and is forwarded to
the list admin for approval, the notice to the admin should contain
the message as received by Mailman with nothing removed.


>further, the sender is stripped from the headers and I cannot 
>identify which account it comes from, since the autoresponder does not 
>follow the usual process of identifying the offending mailbox in the body of 
>the autoresponse.
>
>I hope this is clear, and that I can find some configuration that resolves 
>the issue ... previously to identify one of these email addresses, I had to 
>send an email, then immediately unsubscribe everyone from the mailing list 
>and let mailman respond with an unhandled bounce notification, only then was 
>I able to identify the offending address ... but then I had to re-subscribe 
>every list member, and while it only takes a minute to do so it is a real 
>pain.


It is not clear to me whether the autoresponse message is being held
for approval or being delivered to the list without being held. If it
is being held, and admin_immed_notify is Yes, the notification to the
admin should contain the message as received. If you can't identify
from headers or body of this message, where it originates, then I'm
not sure what's going on, but the Received: headers of this message
should at least enable you to identify the server it comes from.

If the message is not being held, but just delivered to the list, make
sure the list does not accept non-member posts. Then, if the post is
accepted, it must be from a member. If this is an anonymous list,
Mailman will log the original From: in Mailman's 'post' log, and if
not, the message saved in archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox
should have information as to which member address originated it.

Note that your scenario of sending and immediately unsubscribeing
doesn't make sense. If a bounce is delivered th the listname-bounces
address, it is either recognized as a bounce or not. If not, it is
forwarded to the admin as an unrecognized bounce (if
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner is Yes), and otherwise, it is
processed as a bounce. The fact that the bouncing address is not a
list member is irrelevant. In that case, Mailman just ignores the
bounce.

So it seems more likely that unsubscribing everyone caused a returned
post to be held as a non-member post. If that is the case, you can
accomplish the same thing without unsubscribing anyone by making sure
that Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> member_moderation_action
is Hold and then setting everyone moderated under Membership
Management... -> Membership List -> Additional Member Tasks

Also, if the message is being returned to the list posting address
because of Reply-To, you could just temporarily set Reply-To to go to
a specific address, namely yours.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dougggaff at yahoo.com  Wed May 26 18:01:52 2010
From: dougggaff at yahoo.com (Doug Gaff)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 12:01:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] private lists with real name signatures
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100526081439031261066bdf@msapiro>
References: <04a101cafc12$5bc13500$13439f00$@com>
	<PC19520100526081439031261066bdf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000301cafcec$c20d1880$46274980$@com>

#2 sounds like a better approach. I'll look into that. Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:15 AM
To: Doug Gaff; Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] private lists with real name signatures

Doug Gaff wrote:
>
>The request I'm getting from list members is to have their "Real Name"
>displayed but not their email address. I see two ways to do this:
>
> 
>
>1.       The "on behalf of" text in the header could put the real name only
>and not the email address.


The "on behalf of" text is just MS Outlook's (and some other MUAs lik
Hotmail) way of displaying the From: header when there is a Sender:
header. In any case, Mailman's way of handling the From: in an
anonymous list is to make it "List description
<list_posting_address>". Replacing the list description with the
poster's name would require modifying the code in
Mailman/Handlers/Cleanse.py.


>2.       An auto signature can be appended to the end of each sent message.


Here you could create a custom handler (see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>). If the message's metadata contains a
dictionary named decoration-data, that dictionary is used to update
the replacements available for msg_header and msg_footer. Thus if the
custom handler were in the pipeline prior to Cleanse, i.e. prior to
the replacement of the From: header, it could be something like:

from email.Utils import parseaddr
def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    poster_name = parseaddr(msg['from'])[0]
    if 'decoration-data' in msgdata:
        msgdata['decoration-data']['poster_name'] = poster_name
    else:
        msgdata['decoration-data'] = {'poster_name': poster_name}

This would add %(poster_name)s to the replacements available for
msg_header and msg_footer, and its value would be the real name part
of the From: address of the original post or the empty string if there
wasn't a real name in the From:

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed May 26 18:11:15 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 01:11:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] private lists with real name signatures
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100526081439031261066bdf@msapiro>
References: <04a101cafc12$5bc13500$13439f00$@com>
	<PC19520100526081439031261066bdf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <877hmqlk2k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > This would add %(poster_name)s to the replacements available for
 > msg_header and msg_footer, and its value would be the real name part
 > of the From: address of the original post or the empty string if there
 > wasn't a real name in the From:

Would it be possible to get the full name from the list object
(assuming the poster is a subscriber and that the full name is there)?


From dougggaff at yahoo.com  Wed May 26 18:24:29 2010
From: dougggaff at yahoo.com (Doug Gaff)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 12:24:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Bulk] Re: private lists with real name
	signatures
In-Reply-To: <877hmqlk2k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <04a101cafc12$5bc13500$13439f00$@com>	<PC19520100526081439031261066bdf@msapiro>
	<877hmqlk2k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <002701cafcef$eaa9f2b0$bffdd810$@com>

Mark, 

Why isn't %(poster_name) available as a variable to be used in the
msg_footer options on the admin panel? Seems like that would be easier.

Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:11 PM
To: Mark Sapiro
Cc: Doug Gaff; Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Mailman-Users] private lists with real name signatures

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > This would add %(poster_name)s to the replacements available for
 > msg_header and msg_footer, and its value would be the real name part
 > of the From: address of the original post or the empty string if there
 > wasn't a real name in the From:

Would it be possible to get the full name from the list object
(assuming the poster is a subscriber and that the full name is there)?


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 26 18:55:49 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 09:55:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] private lists with real name signatures
In-Reply-To: <877hmqlk2k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC195201005260955490750ce94e8df@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Mark Sapiro writes:
>
> > This would add %(poster_name)s to the replacements available for
> > msg_header and msg_footer, and its value would be the real name part
> > of the From: address of the original post or the empty string if there
> > wasn't a real name in the From:
>
>Would it be possible to get the full name from the list object
>(assuming the poster is a subscriber and that the full name is there)?


Sure. A somewhat more complete handler (and perhaps more Pythonic as
well) would be:


from email.Utils import parseaddr
def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    poster_name, addrs = parseaddr(msg['from'])
    if not poster_name and mlist.isMember(addrs):
        poster_name = mlist.getMemberName(address) or ''
    msgdata.setdefault('decoration-data', {}).update(
                                  poster_name=poster_name)


Notes:
  This prefers the name in the From header over the list member's real
name. That could be reversed.
  The dictionary update(poster_name=poster_name) syntax requires Python
2.4 or later. For older Python, this would be update(
                             {'poster_name': poster_name})

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 26 19:04:00 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 10:04:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Bulk] Re: private lists with real name
	signatures
In-Reply-To: <002701cafcef$eaa9f2b0$bffdd810$@com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010052610040001250cdd663d@msapiro>

Doug Gaff wrote:
>
>Why isn't %(poster_name) available as a variable to be used in the
>msg_footer options on the admin panel? Seems like that would be easier.


It was never implemented as a standard replacement.

If the list is not anonymous, the name is usually available in the
From: header of the post. If the list is anonymous, it is often
because the poster should remain anonymous and not just because the
poster's email address only should not be revealed.

For these reasons, there was never much demand or motivation to do this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed May 26 19:08:55 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 02:08:55 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] private lists with real name signatures
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005260955490750ce94e8df@msapiro>
References: <877hmqlk2k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<PC195201005260955490750ce94e8df@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87632alheg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > Sure. A somewhat more complete handler (and perhaps more Pythonic as
 > well) would be:
 > 
 > 
 > from email.Utils import parseaddr
 > def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
 >     poster_name, addrs = parseaddr(msg['from'])
 >     if not poster_name and mlist.isMember(addrs):
 >         poster_name = mlist.getMemberName(address) or ''
                                                 A
oops-y here, I think ----------------------------+

 >     msgdata.setdefault('decoration-data', {}).update(
 >                                   poster_name=poster_name)

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed May 26 19:24:06 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 02:24:06 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Bulk] Re: private lists with real
	name	signatures
In-Reply-To: <002701cafcef$eaa9f2b0$bffdd810$@com>
References: <04a101cafc12$5bc13500$13439f00$@com>
	<PC19520100526081439031261066bdf@msapiro>
	<877hmqlk2k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<002701cafcef$eaa9f2b0$bffdd810$@com>
Message-ID: <874ohulgp5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Doug Gaff writes:

 > Why isn't %(poster_name) available as a variable to be used in the
 > msg_footer options on the admin panel? Seems like that would be easier.

It's not available because it's not available.  Yours is an unusual
use case; "normally" the poster's name is available in the From field,
or not at all.  No malice in this<wink>, it just never occurred to
anybody to make it available for message headers and footers.

This Handler could be added to a future version of Mailman, but 2.x is
not planned for further development, and 3.0 is still some months
away.  No reason for you to wait!


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 26 19:34:17 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 10:34:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] private lists with real name signatures
In-Reply-To: <87632alheg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC1952010052610341701710b18667c@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Mark Sapiro writes:
>
> > Sure. A somewhat more complete handler (and perhaps more Pythonic as
> > well) would be:
> > 
> > 
> > from email.Utils import parseaddr
> > def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
> >     poster_name, addrs = parseaddr(msg['from'])
> >     if not poster_name and mlist.isMember(addrs):
> >         poster_name = mlist.getMemberName(address) or ''
>                                                 A
>oops-y here, I think ----------------------------+


<blush> Of course you are correct; that should be 'addrs', not
'address'. One day, I'll learn that every time I write more than two
lines of code in a mail list post, they will contain at least one typo.


> >     msgdata.setdefault('decoration-data', {}).update(
> >                                   poster_name=poster_name)


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dougggaff at yahoo.com  Wed May 26 19:39:26 2010
From: dougggaff at yahoo.com (Doug Gaff)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:39:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Bulk] Re: private lists with real
	name	signatures
In-Reply-To: <874ohulgp5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <04a101cafc12$5bc13500$13439f00$@com>	<PC19520100526081439031261066bdf@msapiro>	<877hmqlk2k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<002701cafcef$eaa9f2b0$bffdd810$@com>
	<874ohulgp5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <005201cafcfa$63189760$2949c620$@com>

LOL. I'll work on the handler. I'm not sure whether I can do this is a
shared hosted environment, though. I'm looking into it. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:24 PM
To: Doug Gaff
Cc: 'Mark Sapiro'; Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] [Bulk] Re: private lists with real name
signatures

Doug Gaff writes:

 > Why isn't %(poster_name) available as a variable to be used in the
 > msg_footer options on the admin panel? Seems like that would be easier.

It's not available because it's not available.  Yours is an unusual
use case; "normally" the poster's name is available in the From field,
or not at all.  No malice in this<wink>, it just never occurred to
anybody to make it available for message headers and footers.

This Handler could be added to a future version of Mailman, but 2.x is
not planned for further development, and 3.0 is still some months
away.  No reason for you to wait!


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed May 26 20:06:37 2010
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:06:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum hop count exceeded
In-Reply-To: <87iq6bktdu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <4BFB3E5E.2070804@jobstreet.com>	<4BFB41B8.6070509@riverviewtech.net>	<87typwlgwe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<4BFC2E59.70001@riverviewtech.net>	<87mxvnl8d7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<4BFC987C.2020201@riverviewtech.net>
	<87iq6bktdu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4BFD632D.2060505@riverviewtech.net>

On 05/26/10 02:35, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> It fixes it for the Mailman host, yes.  It's still wasting some 
> bandwidth and may indicate more serious problems on an intermediate 
> host.  Typically it's not a problem at either the last hop or the 
> apparent sender, so quite painful to trace in the absence of headers.

I'm not sure that we are talking about exactly the same thing.

If you are trying to diagnose messages after they have been through 
Mailman, and had the headers removed like we have discussed, then yes, 
finding loops before Mailman will be difficult.

This is why I was talking about having a pre-Mailman archive 
specifically for diagnostic purposes.

I feel like I should throw out there that I consider Mailman to be and 
end point / consumer if you will of email.  The email between the 
original sender and Mailman as the recipient is one email transaction. 
What Mailman does with what it receives and send out to other 
subscribers is a series of different email transactions.  I personally 
think trying to squish the two together and treating them as one is 
leading to lots of confusion and / or problems.

> Actually, I'm talking about this kind of thing:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> where the top three Receiveds would really not give me any useful 
> information beyond what I can get from logs in the tsukuba.ac.jp 
> domain.

Hum.  Either you are talking about the first server in the series, or 
you meant to say the bottom three and reference the top (newest) 
Received: header.  (Remember that Received: headers are pre-pended to 
the message.)

The mail logs on uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp would record that it received 
the message from shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp, but they would not include the 
other Received: headers.  (At least I have never seen an MTA that will 
record all the Received: headers of the messages that pass through it.)

> Stripping three of the four headers might be worthwhile in the OP's 
> case.

I am referring to the MTA receiving the message via SMTP and passing the 
messages to the LDA that 1) archives a copy of the message, 2) strips 
unwanted headers, and 3) passes the message in to Mailman for 
distribution to subscribers.

It is this pre-stripped message in the archive (step 1 above) that would 
have the diagnostic information.

I don't see where this will cause any problems diagnosing / resolving loops.

Please help me better understand your concern.



Grant. . . .

From bmcgee at qeh2.com  Wed May 26 23:33:48 2010
From: bmcgee at qeh2.com (Ben McGee)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 15:33:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounceback from Another List
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010052413353209688cf15b28@msapiro>
References: <9CF3C247E1BD8E4888186B5DD03A0C5978A1C2@QEH2S01.qeh2.local>
	<PC1952010052413353209688cf15b28@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9CF3C247E1BD8E4888186B5DD03A0C5978A41C@QEH2S01.qeh2.local>



>There can be issues with Exim (and other MTAs) if one of the list names
>looks like one of the administrative addresses for another list?.

>Check your Exim logs which should tell you how the mail is getting to
>List2.

Thanks again.  MailMan was working perfectly.  It was a configuration
issue on exim.



From barry at list.org  Thu May 27 01:52:57 2010
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 19:52:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] We have a winner!
Message-ID: <20100526195257.709f12b4@heresy>

I am very pleased to announce the winner of the 2010 GNU Mailman logo
contest.  By an almost 2-to-1 margin, you voted for this logo:

http://www.list.org/images/logo2010.jpg

Congratulations Andrija Arsic!  A little bit about Andrija: originally from
Trstenik, Serbia and now studying IT technology in Belgrade, Andrija is a
self-employed, part-time graphic designer, specialising in the fields of
corporate identity (logo) design, web design, print design and branding with
the majority of his time spent designing and implementing marketing promotions
for businesses such as logos, websites, letterhead, business cards, packaging
and more. I'm glad that he also contributes to free software, as I think his
winning logo is spectacular.

My thanks and appreciation to all the artists who contributed logos to the
contest.  All the designs are very nice, and in their own way, capture the
spirit of GNU Mailman.  Thanks also to all of you who voted!

Cheers,
-Barry

Full announcement: http://www.wefearchange.org/2010/05/we-have-winner.html
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From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu May 27 08:38:48 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 15:38:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum hop count exceeded
In-Reply-To: <4BFD632D.2060505@riverviewtech.net>
References: <4BFB3E5E.2070804@jobstreet.com>
	<4BFB41B8.6070509@riverviewtech.net>
	<87typwlgwe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<4BFC2E59.70001@riverviewtech.net>
	<87mxvnl8d7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<4BFC987C.2020201@riverviewtech.net>
	<87iq6bktdu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<4BFD632D.2060505@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <871vcxluh3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Grant Taylor writes:
 > On 05/26/10 02:35, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
 > > It fixes it for the Mailman host, yes.  It's still wasting some 
 > > bandwidth and may indicate more serious problems on an intermediate 
 > > host.  Typically it's not a problem at either the last hop or the 
 > > apparent sender, so quite painful to trace in the absence of headers.
 > 
 > I'm not sure that we are talking about exactly the same thing.

No we weren't.  I didn't understand that the policy of stripping
headers on entry to Mailman proposed in earlier messages had been
transmuted to presume an archive of pre-stripped messages.

From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Thu May 27 19:49:30 2010
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 10:49:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine whether a message is sent to a particular
	user
Message-ID: <D8FBAEAB-3CF4-46CF-A272-91EBC76B3BAD@canby.k12.or.us>


Hello, 

A user reports that she did not receive an emergency message that was sent to a list of 819 members with one member marked as no mail, yesterday. According to smtp log, the message sent out to 813 recipients of that list on May 25, 2010 10:39:40. Within the next 5 minutes, this message re-send to 15 members of the list ( according to post log, no message is posted to this list or any other lists for 60 minutes after this message)
Will we able to determine exactly whether the message is indeed sent to her account (hotmail account)? Will we able to determine the 15 members that the message re-send to?

Thank you very much for the advice,

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 27 21:41:32 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 12:41:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine whether a message is sent to a
	particularuser
In-Reply-To: <D8FBAEAB-3CF4-46CF-A272-91EBC76B3BAD@canby.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC195201005271241320593908e6831@msapiro>

Hung Phan wrote:
>
>A user reports that she did not receive an emergency message that was sent to a list of 819 members with one member marked as no mail, yesterday. According to smtp log, the message sent out to 813 recipients of that list on May 25, 2010 10:39:40. Within the next 5 minutes, this message re-send to 15 members of the list ( according to post log, no message is posted to this list or any other lists for 60 minutes after this message)
>Will we able to determine exactly whether the message is indeed sent to her account (hotmail account)? Will we able to determine the 15 members that the message re-send to?


All of this information should be available by analyzing the MTA's
log(s).

Note that at most however, you will only be able to determine whether
or not her message was accepted by a hotmail server. You will not be
able to determine whether hotmail delivered it to her inbox or her
junk folder or discarded it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Thu May 27 21:47:57 2010
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 13:47:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine whether a message is sent to a
	particular user
In-Reply-To: <D8FBAEAB-3CF4-46CF-A272-91EBC76B3BAD@canby.k12.or.us>
References: <D8FBAEAB-3CF4-46CF-A272-91EBC76B3BAD@canby.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <EA15A5CB-7525-496B-AFE3-70D55D33B684@kreme.com>

On 27-May-2010, at 11:49, Hung Phan wrote:
> 
> A user reports that she did not receive an emergency message that was sent to a list of 819 members with one member marked as no mail, yesterday. According to smtp log, the message sent out to 813 recipients of that list on May 25, 2010 10:39:40. Within the next 5 minutes, this message re-send to 15 members of the list ( according to post log, no message is posted to this list or any other lists for 60 minutes after this message)
> Will we able to determine exactly whether the message is indeed sent to her account (hotmail account)? Will we able to determine the 15 members that the message re-send to?

1) You will have to look at the maillog on the mailserver to see the message sent and accepted by hotmail (I can pretty much guarantee that hotmail accepted the message).

2) If anyone is counting on hotmail to deliver critical emails they are complete and total morons. Hotmail is *not* reliable and often discards messages with no notice to the receiver.


-- 
I have seen galaxies die. I have watched atoms dance. But until I had
the dark behind the eyes, I didn't know the death from the dance. --The
Thief of Time


From robertk at jpl.nasa.gov  Thu May 27 23:25:15 2010
From: robertk at jpl.nasa.gov (Robert Khachikyan)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 14:25:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to enforce Author line?
Message-ID: <4BFEE33B.4020701@jpl.nasa.gov>

Dear Guru's,

On some of the lists, I want to configure such that the very first line 
of the body contains the "Author: <name here>" line.

(This is for legacy purposes).  And if the Author line is not given, 
then messages are bounced to moderator and/or the sender.

I tried putting ^Author: and other reg exps in the "topics" section, but 
none worked.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
--Robert

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 28 01:01:13 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 16:01:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to enforce Author line?
In-Reply-To: <4BFEE33B.4020701@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC195201005271601130656c20c0a5d@msapiro>

Robert Khachikyan wrote:
>
>On some of the lists, I want to configure such that the very first line 
>of the body contains the "Author: <name here>" line.
>
>(This is for legacy purposes).  And if the Author line is not given, 
>then messages are bounced to moderator and/or the sender.
>
>I tried putting ^Author: and other reg exps in the "topics" section, but 
>none worked.


For the most part, Mailman only has facilities for examining message
headers and not body contents. There are a few cases such as an
Approved: header for message pre-approval or a Subject: or Keywords:
header for topics where Mailman also will look at the initial body
lines for a match, but in the case of Topics, it still only looks in
the body for lines that look like a Subject: or Keywords: header.

Thus, if you were going to use topic filters for this the initial body
line would need to be

Subject: Author: ...

or

Keywords: Author: ...

The way to do what you want is with a custom handler. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> for information on installing a custom
handler. You can apply one of the methods for installing for a single
list to each of the lists you want to use it for.

The handler code itself could look something like the following:

from Mailman import Errors

class NoAuthorLine(Errors.HoldMessage):
    reason = 'No Author line in the message body'
    rejection = "The first text/plain part of the message didn't begin
with Author:"

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    for part in msg.walk():
        if part.get_content_type <> 'text/plain':
            continue
        if part.get_payload(decode=True).startswith('Author:')
            return
        else:
            raise NoAuthorLine
    raise NoAuthorLine

(watch out for the wrapped rejection = line above, and this is untested)

If this handler were in the pipeline, say ahead of Moderate, any
message that didn't have a text/plain part or whose first text/plain
part didn't start with 'Author:' would be held for approval for 'No
Author line in the message body' and if rejected by the moderator, the
default reason would be "The first text/plain part of the message
didn't begin with Author:"

If the message's first text/plain part did begin with Author:, it would
pass this check but still be subject to membership and moderation
tests and miscellaneous holds.

If you wanted to apply the membership and moderation and
*_these_nonmembers tests first but not the miscellaneous holds, put
the handler in the pipeline between Moderate and Hold.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From robertk at jpl.nasa.gov  Fri May 28 01:03:27 2010
From: robertk at jpl.nasa.gov (Robert Khachikyan)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 16:03:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] possible arch bug?
Message-ID: <4BFEFA3F.4090407@jpl.nasa.gov>

I've been importing thousands of emails from majordomo to mailman and I 
might have found a bug...

The original email has this:

 From - Fri Jan 1 00:00:01 2010
Delivered-To: bla at bla.com
Message-ID: <7CB5F45D9E56D511836F0002A537DD6992CA9A at bla.com>
From: bla.bla at bla.com
To: bla.bla at bla.com
Subject: here is the subject line
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:38:27 -0700
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-bla
Precedence: bulk

 From today, everything should be back to 'normal' again. This applies
to all stations mentioned above, except for DOJO. This station is
presently in a 'transition' mode. Due to 're-configuration' activities,
....

~mailman/bin/arch interprets this as 2 emails simply because it detected 
the ^From again.
Shouldn't it be seeking for "^From(\s)-(\s)(<date reg exp here>)$" ??

--Robert

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 28 01:35:28 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 16:35:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] possible arch bug?
In-Reply-To: <4BFEFA3F.4090407@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC195201005271635280281e711e735@msapiro>

Robert Khachikyan wrote:

>I've been importing thousands of emails from majordomo to mailman and I 
>might have found a bug...
>
>The original email has this:
>
> From - Fri Jan 1 00:00:01 2010
>Delivered-To: bla at bla.com
>Message-ID: <7CB5F45D9E56D511836F0002A537DD6992CA9A at bla.com>
>From: bla.bla at bla.com
>To: bla.bla at bla.com
>Subject: here is the subject line
>Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:38:27 -0700
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Sender: owner-bla
>Precedence: bulk
>
> From today, everything should be back to 'normal' again. This applies
>to all stations mentioned above, except for DOJO. This station is
>presently in a 'transition' mode. Due to 're-configuration' activities,
>....
>
>~mailman/bin/arch interprets this as 2 emails simply because it detected 
>the ^From again.
>Shouldn't it be seeking for "^From(\s)-(\s)(<date reg exp here>)$" ??


bin/arch uses the Python mailbox.PortableUnixMailbox class which is
very loose about what constitutes a From_ separator.

That's why we provide a script, bin/cleanarch for checking archive mbox
files and escaping lines beginning with From_ which aren't message
separators.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Fri May 28 01:39:26 2010
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 16:39:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine whether a message is sent to a
	particularuser
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005271241320593908e6831@msapiro>
References: <PC195201005271241320593908e6831@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9203556E-1A03-40BD-92C8-2195BCA833DF@canby.k12.or.us>

Thank you! That's exactly what we looking for. The recipients are recorded in /var/log/exim/main.log



On May 27, 2010, at 12:41 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Hung Phan wrote:
>> 
>> A user reports that she did not receive an emergency message that was sent to a list of 819 members with one member marked as no mail, yesterday. According to smtp log, the message sent out to 813 recipients of that list on May 25, 2010 10:39:40. Within the next 5 minutes, this message re-send to 15 members of the list ( according to post log, no message is posted to this list or any other lists for 60 minutes after this message)
>> Will we able to determine exactly whether the message is indeed sent to her account (hotmail account)? Will we able to determine the 15 members that the message re-send to?
> 
> 
> All of this information should be available by analyzing the MTA's
> log(s).
> 
> Note that at most however, you will only be able to determine whether
> or not her message was accepted by a hotmail server. You will not be
> able to determine whether hotmail delivered it to her inbox or her
> junk folder or discarded it.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 


From ntrapp at umassd.edu  Thu May 27 16:13:03 2010
From: ntrapp at umassd.edu (Nathan A Trapp)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 10:13:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman CAS Authentication
Message-ID: <2075939851.2329.1274969583178.JavaMail.root@zimbra-mb4.umassd.edu>

After much research, I am rather stumped at how to modify the mailman authentication system. I was wondering if anyone could point me towards the right Python files to edit in order to implement an alternate authentication scheme (such as CAS) for mailman administrative login. I know I've seen the University of Washington page do this (see here http://mailman2.u.washington.edu/mailman/admin/aaivmail), but I have not had any such luck. 

Thanks for any advice I can gain. 


Nathan Trapp 


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 28 16:35:46 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 07:35:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman CAS Authentication
In-Reply-To: <2075939851.2329.1274969583178.JavaMail.root@zimbra-mb4.umassd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1952010052807354602347fd6e758@msapiro>

Nathan A Trapp wrote:

>After much research, I am rather stumped at how to modify the mailman authentication system. I was wondering if anyone could point me towards the right Python files to edit in order to implement an alternate authentication scheme (such as CAS) for mailman administrative login. I know I've seen the University of Washington page do this (see here http://mailman2.u.washington.edu/mailman/admin/aaivmail), but I have not had any such luck. 


The authentication itself is (almost) all in Mailman/SecurityManager.py
(verification of list member passwords in in the MemberAdaptor -
default Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py).

The admin, admindb, user options and private archive login pages are
all generated on the fly by the respective Mailman/Cgi/*.py modules.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Fri May 28 17:06:14 2010
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:06:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum hop count exceeded
In-Reply-To: <871vcxluh3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <4BFB3E5E.2070804@jobstreet.com>	<4BFB41B8.6070509@riverviewtech.net>	<87typwlgwe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<4BFC2E59.70001@riverviewtech.net>	<87mxvnl8d7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<4BFC987C.2020201@riverviewtech.net>	<87iq6bktdu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<4BFD632D.2060505@riverviewtech.net>
	<871vcxluh3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4BFFDBE6.2050008@riverviewtech.net>

On 05/27/10 01:38, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> No we weren't.  I didn't understand that the policy of stripping 
> headers on entry to Mailman proposed in earlier messages had been 
> transmuted to presume an archive of pre-stripped messages.

*nod*

That's why I backed up and tried to clarify.  ;)



Grant. . . .

From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Fri May 28 20:25:44 2010
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 18:25:44 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] automating batch cancellation..
Message-ID: <COL105-W10A05AEABA1E6BD0D07E0FBEB0@phx.gbl>


hello,

 

I'm running 6 mailing lists and having a hard time with cancellation requestes, for I have one email address : cancel at mydomain and then I collect all addresses in the mailbox and remove them from all the 6 lists manually ..

 

now if I changed this cancel at mydomain email to act as a forwarder to the 6 cancellation addresses of the 6 lists, so each incoming email gets distributed to :

 

list1-leave at mydomain

list2-leave at mydomain

list3-leave at mydomain

list4-leave at mydomain

list5-leave at mydomain

list6-leave at mydomain

 

will it work this way ??

 

please advise..

 

Thanks..
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 28 20:49:09 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 11:49:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] automating batch cancellation..
In-Reply-To: <COL105-W10A05AEABA1E6BD0D07E0FBEB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC195201005281149090173d059e676@msapiro>

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>now if I changed this cancel at mydomain email to act as a forwarder to the 6 cancellation addresses of the 6 lists, so each incoming email gets distributed to :
>
> 
>
>list1-leave at mydomain
>
>list2-leave at mydomain
>
>list3-leave at mydomain
>
>list4-leave at mydomain
>
>list5-leave at mydomain
>
>list6-leave at mydomain
>
> 
>
>will it work this way ??


It will work, but each email to cancel at mydomain will result in 6 emails
back to the sender. One of these will be a request to confirm
unsubscription from the list of which the sender is a member and the
other 5 will be "results of your email commands" messages saying the
sender is not a member of the list.

I suspect that in practice it won't work because the user will be
confused by all the emails and will fail to respond to the one email
that requires response and thus won't be unsubscribed anyway.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From terri at zone12.com  Sat May 29 02:51:19 2010
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 20:51:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do you use mailman mailing list archives?
Message-ID: <4C006507.9050706@zone12.com>

Hi all!

We've got 3 students working on improved archives for Mailman as part of 
  Google Summer of Code this year, and before they start writing code 
we'd like to gather some data on how people really use the archives.  If 
you have a minute, it'd help us a whole lot if you could fill out this 
survey to tell us how you use the existing archives and how you'd like 
to use them:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dF9XcGRsYUpsOUtxYjBWRUdnVXN4X1E6MQ

I know I'm always inundated with survey requests, but I promise this one 
will help us create Archives Of The Future. ;)  Seriously, this should 
lead to more usable and useful Mailman archives, and who doesn't want 
that?  Feel free to pass it around to anyone else who might want to 
help, and if you have any questions or concerns please contact me.

  Terri



From dkoletar at yahoo.com  Sat May 29 20:53:52 2010
From: dkoletar at yahoo.com (Dana Koletar)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 11:53:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List admin and list member does not receive emails
Message-ID: <369035.11516.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

HI, 

I am our list admin, moderator and a list member. However, I do not get the emails that are sent to the list. I did at one time, sporadically, but no longer. There are not any in my spam folder. What could be happening? Messages are definitely being sent. 

Thanks

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 30 15:46:18 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 06:46:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List admin and list member does not receive
	emails
In-Reply-To: <369035.11516.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100530064618025017a6a68c@msapiro>

Dana Koletar wrote:
>
>I am our list admin, moderator and a list member. However, I do not get the emails that are sent to the list. I did at one time, sporadically, but no longer. There are not any in my spam folder. What could be happening? Messages are definitely being sent. 


Are you saying that others receive posts but you don't? If so, is your
delivery enabled ('nomail' unchecked in the admin membership list).

If no one gets the mail, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

If it's just some members that don't get the mail, see
<http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9> for some ideas.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mary.y.wang at boeing.com  Sun May 30 20:57:48 2010
From: mary.y.wang at boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 11:57:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is the best way to move Mailman 2.1.9
 toanther server?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201005050720330812612ae90d@msapiro>
References: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC04587A73CF@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
	<PC195201005050720330812612ae90d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC045898A499@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>

Mark -
Thanks the info.  This is really helpful.
One more question, I wanted to make sure all current list admins' list configurations to be moved over to the new server as well.   
What is the file name that contains that kind of information?  I saw the notes on coping lists and archives directories, but I didn't see the information about moving the list admin's list configurations.  Is that information stored in a database file? 

Thanks
Mary


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 7:21 AM
To: Wang, Mary Y; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] What is the best way to move Mailman 2.1.9 toanther server?

Wang, Mary Y wrote:
>
>I'm currently running Mailman 2.1.9 on a server with a very old OS.  What is the best way to move/migrate Mailman 2.1.9 to a newer server with a newer OS?   Could I just copy files over?  Or do I need to reinstall/reconfigure again for the new server?


I recommend downloading and installing Mailman 2.1.13 on the new server (see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9> for some Python caveats) and then just copying Mailman's lists/ and archives/private/ directories and running check_perms. archives/public will take care of itself as lists are accessed. See the lists posts linked from the first part of the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2oA9> for more.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 30 21:29:28 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 12:29:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is the best way to move Mailman 2.1.9
 toanther server?
In-Reply-To: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC045898A499@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
References: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC04587A73CF@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
	<PC195201005050720330812612ae90d@msapiro>
	<FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC045898A499@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <4C02BC98.6020203@msapiro.net>

On 5/30/2010 11:57 AM, Wang, Mary Y wrote:
> Mark - Thanks the info.  This is really helpful. One more question, I
> wanted to make sure all current list admins' list configurations to
> be moved over to the new server as well. What is the file name that
> contains that kind of information?  I saw the notes on coping lists
> and archives directories, but I didn't see the information about
> moving the list admin's list configurations.  Is that information
> stored in a database file?


Assuming no custom MemberAdaptor, all list configuration, membership,
member options, etc. is in the list's lists/LISTNAME/config.pck file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From aaron at zivtech.com  Sun May 30 21:28:45 2010
From: aaron at zivtech.com (Aaron Couch)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 15:28:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + Postfix + Virtual Maps = initial mailman
	list works but new lists don't
Message-ID: <AANLkTik6MaZKxBmu-9TfN30nMYzwiQ3zZec-2n6acsm1@mail.gmail.com>

*in short:
*i can get mailman to work with the 'mailman' list but not with subsequently
added lists.
*
disclaimer:*
I've searched long and hard for an answer to this, including the archives of
this mailing list. There were similar threads but none of the solutions
solved this problem including:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg55226.html and
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/msg55226.html and
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/msg54930.html

*versions:*
ubuntu          9.04
mailman        2.1.12
postfix          2.5.5

*what works:*
postfix virtual domains with mysql work fine.
mailman with apache works fine. i'm able to create new lists and the alias
and virtual-mailman files are updated. I receive the proper "you've been
added" emails.
the initial mailman at mydomain.org list and email works. i am able to send and
receive email and add new users.

*what doesn't work:*
any lists added after the inital 'mailman' list fails. it is added through
the web interface and added to the alias and virtual mailman files. the new
users get the "you've been added email". however any emails sent to that
list, let's call it pleasework at mydomain.org, fail.

*the logs:*
here is what the mail.log file says for emails that fail to
pleasework at mydomain.org:

May 29 20:13:44 servername postfix/virtual[12598]: 4936C5CB9F: to=<
pleasework at mydomain.org>, relay=virtual, delay=888, delays=888/0.05/0/0.01,
dsn=4.1.1, status=SOFTBOUNCE (unknown user: "pleasework at mydomain.org")

here is a successful log message to mailmain at mydomain.org:

May 30 16:15:15 servername postfix/pipe[31452]: 51F265CBCB: to=<
mailman at lists.mydomain.org>, orig_to=<mailman at mydomain.org>, relay=mailman,
delay=0.66, delays=0.25/0.01/0/0.4, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered via
mailman service)

*uninformed analysis:*
it seems like the mailman-virtual map isn't working. i've tried changing the
permissions in the mailmain-virtual file in case that was an issue but to no
avail. again the 'pleasework' list does show up in it and the alias file as
well:

# LOOP ADDRESSES START
mailman-loop at mydomain.org        mailman-loop
# LOOP ADDRESSES END

# STANZA START: awesome
# CREATED: Sun May 30 17:25:53 2010
pleasework at mydomain.org              pleasework

I have had a hickup when trying to regenerate the alias files. The
bin/genaliases file had the following errors:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/genaliases", line 116, in <module>
    main()
  File "bin/genaliases", line 83, in main
    modulename = 'Mailman.MTA.' + mm_cfg.MTA
TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType' objects

In my mm_cfg I had MTA=None which is recommended when using the
'/usr/share/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py'. I tried changing it to MTA=""
but still got an error. It succeeded when I just removed the MTA variable.
It says to add the list info to the /etc/aliases file and use the newaliases
command but in my main.cf file I have the mailman aliases file added to the
alias_maps variable (see below) so I would think that shouldn't be an issue.

*my setup:*

mm_cfg.py file:
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'
IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.org'
DEB_LISTMASTER = 'listmaster at mydomain.org'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'lists.mydomain.org'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('lists.mediamobilizingproject.org', '
lists.mediamobilizingproject.org')
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0

postconf -n :
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
append_dot_mydomain = no
biff = no
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
config_directory = /etc/postfix
delay_warning_time = 4h
disable_vrfy_command = yes
inet_interfaces = all
mailbox_size_limit = 0
masquerade_domains = mail.mydomain.org
masquerade_exceptions = root
mydestination = mediamoblizing.org, localhost.mydomain.org, , localhost
myhostname = servername.mydomain.org
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128
myorigin = mydomain.org
readme_directory = no
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_domains = lists.mydomain.org, lists.mediamobilizingproject.org
relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
relayhost =
smtp_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtp_scache
smtp_use_tls = yes
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Ubuntu)
smtpd_helo_required = yes
smtpd_helo_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject_invalid_hostname, permit
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = reject_unknown_sender_domain,
reject_unknown_recipient_domain, reject_unauth_pipelining,
permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated, reject_unauth_destination
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_authenticated_header = yes
smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $myhostname
smtpd_sasl_path = private/dovecot-auth
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
smtpd_sasl_type = dovecot
smtpd_sender_restrictions = reject_unknown_sender_domain
smtpd_tls_auth_only = yes
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/ssl/certs/ssl-mail.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/ssl/private/ssl-mail.key
smtpd_tls_mandatory_ciphers = medium, high
smtpd_tls_mandatory_protocols = SSLv3, TLSv1
smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtpd_scache
smtpd_use_tls = yes
soft_bounce = yes
tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
unknown_address_reject_code = 554
unknown_client_reject_code = 554
unknown_hostname_reject_code = 554
virtual_alias_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/my_alias_maps.cf,
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
virtual_gid_maps = static:8
virtual_mailbox_base = /var/vmail
virtual_mailbox_domains = mydomain.org
virtual_mailbox_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/my_mailbox_maps.cf
virtual_minimum_uid = 150
virtual_transport = virtual
virtual_uid_maps = static:150


Thanks for any assistance you can offer!

best,

-Aaron

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 30 22:36:07 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 13:36:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + Postfix + Virtual Maps = initial
	mailmanlist works but new lists don't
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik6MaZKxBmu-9TfN30nMYzwiQ3zZec-2n6acsm1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100530133607039035d73d0d@msapiro>

Aaron Couch wrote:
>
>*what doesn't work:*
>any lists added after the inital 'mailman' list fails. it is added through
>the web interface and added to the alias and virtual mailman files. the new
>users get the "you've been added email". however any emails sent to that
>list, let's call it pleasework at mydomain.org, fail.
>
>*the logs:*
>here is what the mail.log file says for emails that fail to
>pleasework at mydomain.org:
>
>May 29 20:13:44 servername postfix/virtual[12598]: 4936C5CB9F: to=<
>pleasework at mydomain.org>, relay=virtual, delay=888, delays=888/0.05/0/0.01,
>dsn=4.1.1, status=SOFTBOUNCE (unknown user: "pleasework at mydomain.org")


relay=virtual is a problem. It suggests that mydomain.org is a
virtual_mailbox_domain, not a virtual_alias_domain.


>here is a successful log message to mailmain at mydomain.org:
>
>May 30 16:15:15 servername postfix/pipe[31452]: 51F265CBCB: to=<
>mailman at lists.mydomain.org>, orig_to=<mailman at mydomain.org>, relay=mailman,
>delay=0.66, delays=0.25/0.01/0/0.4, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered via
>mailman service)


This says the mailman at lists.mydomain.org mail is delivered via the
Debian/Ubuntu postfix_to_mailman.py mailman service. This does not use
aliases or virtual_mailman at all but requires dedicated list domains
such as lists.mydomain.org. I.e. every domain which has Mailman lists
needs an entry like

lists.example.com   mailman:

in /etc/postfix/transport or where ever the Postfix transport_maps are.

This also complicates delivery to any addresses in the domain which
aren't Mailman list addresses.


>*uninformed analysis:*
>it seems like the mailman-virtual map isn't working. i've tried changing the
>permissions in the mailmain-virtual file in case that was an issue but to no
>avail. again the 'pleasework' list does show up in it and the alias file as
[...]
>
>I have had a hickup when trying to regenerate the alias files. The
>bin/genaliases file had the following errors:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "bin/genaliases", line 116, in <module>
>    main()
>  File "bin/genaliases", line 83, in main
>    modulename = 'Mailman.MTA.' + mm_cfg.MTA
>TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType' objects
>
>In my mm_cfg I had MTA=None which is recommended when using the
>'/usr/share/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py'. I tried changing it to MTA=""
>but still got an error. It succeeded when I just removed the MTA variable.


MTA = None says mailman doesn't generate aliases at all, thus you
aren't expected to be running bin/genaliases if MTA = None.

I suppose this is a bug in genaliases. It should instead just scold you
for trying to generate aliases when you have configured it not to.


Removing MTA = None from mm_cfg.py allows the default MTA = 'Manual' to
take effect which should cause genaliases to just print the aliases.

How are aliases and virtual-mailman being generated? That requires MTA
= 'Postfix'.


>It says to add the list info to the /etc/aliases file and use the newaliases
>command but in my main.cf file I have the mailman aliases file added to the
>alias_maps variable (see below) so I would think that shouldn't be an issue.


It says that because MTA = 'Manual' (from Defaults.py)


>*my setup:*
>
>mm_cfg.py file:
>MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
>PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'


Unless this is some Debian/Ubuntu specific thing, there is no
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL setting.


>IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.org'
>DEB_LISTMASTER = 'listmaster at mydomain.org'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'lists.mydomain.org'
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>add_virtualhost('lists.mediamobilizingproject.org', '
>lists.mediamobilizingproject.org')
>DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'
>USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0
>DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0


If you set DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.mydomain.org' instead of
'mydomain.org' and run

bin/withlist -r fix_url LISTNAME

on those lists which currently have a host_name of 'mydomain.org' and
also make sure you have a

lists.mediamobilizingproject.org   mailman:

entry as well as the

lists.mydomain.org   mailman:

that you currently have in /etc/postfix/transport, then you will be
able to mail to all your lists in the lists.mydomain.org and
lists.mediamobilizingproject.org domains.

If you do this, you should also put

MTA = None

back in mm_cfg.py and remove the hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases and
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman from alias_maps and
relay_recipient_maps virtual_alias_maps in Postfix and remove the
data/aliases* and data/virtual-mailman* files.

If you really want lists with an email domain of 'mydomain.org' and not
'lists.mydomain.org' then this becomes much more complicated.

If you need that, you probably have to forget postfix_to_mailman.py and
see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ZoCj>. Note that there is a
note in that FAQ which says

  Also, this whole process may be unnecessary. According to this thread
  on the mailman-users list simply referencing the Mailman generated
  virtual-mailman in virtual_alias_maps in Postfix is sufficient even
  if the domain is a virtual_mailbox_domain.

But your experience seems to say that "simply referencing the Mailman
generated virtual-mailman in virtual_alias_maps in Postfix" is not
sufficient, however this may be because your Postfix relay_domains
does not include mydomain.org, thus your relay_recipient_maps is
probably ignored for that domain.


>postconf -n :
>alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>append_dot_mydomain = no
>biff = no
>broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
>config_directory = /etc/postfix
>delay_warning_time = 4h
>disable_vrfy_command = yes
>inet_interfaces = all
>mailbox_size_limit = 0
>masquerade_domains = mail.mydomain.org
>masquerade_exceptions = root
>mydestination = mediamoblizing.org, localhost.mydomain.org, , localhost
>myhostname = servername.mydomain.org
>mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128
>myorigin = mydomain.org
>readme_directory = no
>recipient_delimiter = +
>relay_domains = lists.mydomain.org, lists.mediamobilizingproject.org
>relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>relayhost =
>smtp_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtp_scache
>smtp_use_tls = yes
>smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Ubuntu)
>smtpd_helo_required = yes
>smtpd_helo_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject_invalid_hostname, permit
>smtpd_recipient_restrictions = reject_unknown_sender_domain,
>reject_unknown_recipient_domain, reject_unauth_pipelining,
>permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated, reject_unauth_destination
>smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
>smtpd_sasl_authenticated_header = yes
>smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $myhostname
>smtpd_sasl_path = private/dovecot-auth
>smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
>smtpd_sasl_type = dovecot
>smtpd_sender_restrictions = reject_unknown_sender_domain
>smtpd_tls_auth_only = yes
>smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/ssl/certs/ssl-mail.pem
>smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/ssl/private/ssl-mail.key
>smtpd_tls_mandatory_ciphers = medium, high
>smtpd_tls_mandatory_protocols = SSLv3, TLSv1
>smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
>smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtpd_scache
>smtpd_use_tls = yes
>soft_bounce = yes
>tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom
>transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
>unknown_address_reject_code = 554
>unknown_client_reject_code = 554
>unknown_hostname_reject_code = 554
>virtual_alias_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/my_alias_maps.cf,
>hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>virtual_gid_maps = static:8
>virtual_mailbox_base = /var/vmail
>virtual_mailbox_domains = mydomain.org
>virtual_mailbox_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/my_mailbox_maps.cf
>virtual_minimum_uid = 150
>virtual_transport = virtual
>virtual_uid_maps = static:150

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gabrielandrei79 at gmail.com  Mon May 31 11:19:01 2010
From: gabrielandrei79 at gmail.com (Gabriel Andrei)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 11:19:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim4 + Mailman :: No mail to lists members
Message-ID: <AANLkTimfkvAGtke78MMyJogI4BECZTdkLM-wmVYX4o0Z@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all

I've installed via apt-get mailman on a Ubuntu server 10.04 with exim4, I
already take a look to:
http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/I%27ve+set+up+Mailman%2C+created+a+list%2C+and+added+myself+to+the+list%2C+but+I+don%27t+get+any+messages
!
http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/4.78+Troubleshooting-+No+mail+going+out+to+lists+members

the guide that I've used is
https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/mailman.html

My problem is that I receive all notifications (adduser, pending requests,
etc), I add two address to mailman list, when I try to send a mail I receive
a moderation request, I accept  and in my exim mainlog I have:
2010-05-31 10:41:54 1OJ0ZG-0000iF-62 <=
mailman-bounces at mydomain.netH=localhost ([xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]) [::1]
P=esmtp S=3074
id=AANLkTimCnCj5UEdZun1F-mTLxHbZJcyEplQRZywPz-aW at mail.gmail$
2010-05-31 10:41:54 1OJ0ZG-0000iF-62 =>
gabriel at gabrielandrei.comR=dnslookup T=remote_smtp H=
mx.gabrielandrei.com [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
2010-05-31 10:41:54 1OJ0ZG-0000iF-62 =>
gabrielandrei79 at gmail.comR=dnslookup T=remote_smtp H=
gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
2010-05-31 10:41:54 1OJ0ZG-0000iF-62 Completed

In my mail recipients I have nothing, also on spam folder, and if I give a
"exim -bp" the queue is empty.

It's a mailman problem or an exim problem? why notification is send?
Anyone I've an idea?
bye and thanks
Gabriel

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 31 19:01:10 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 10:01:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim4 + Mailman :: No mail to lists members
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimfkvAGtke78MMyJogI4BECZTdkLM-wmVYX4o0Z@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100531100110070332f75449@msapiro>

Gabriel Andrei wrote:
>
>My problem is that I receive all notifications (adduser, pending requests,
>etc), I add two address to mailman list, when I try to send a mail I receive
>a moderation request, I accept  and in my exim mainlog I have:
>2010-05-31 10:41:54 1OJ0ZG-0000iF-62 <=
>mailman-bounces at mydomain.netH=localhost ([xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]) [::1]
>P=esmtp S=3074
>id=AANLkTimCnCj5UEdZun1F-mTLxHbZJcyEplQRZywPz-aW at mail.gmail$
>2010-05-31 10:41:54 1OJ0ZG-0000iF-62 =>
>gabriel at gabrielandrei.comR=dnslookup T=remote_smtp H=
>mx.gabrielandrei.com [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
>2010-05-31 10:41:54 1OJ0ZG-0000iF-62 =>
>gabrielandrei79 at gmail.comR=dnslookup T=remote_smtp H=
>gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
>2010-05-31 10:41:54 1OJ0ZG-0000iF-62 Completed
>
>In my mail recipients I have nothing, also on spam folder, and if I give a
>"exim -bp" the queue is empty.
>
>It's a mailman problem or an exim problem? why notification is send?


This is neither a Mailman problem nor an Exim problem. It is a Gmail
"feature". See this FAQ <http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gabrielandrei79 at gmail.com  Mon May 31 19:32:43 2010
From: gabrielandrei79 at gmail.com (Gabriel Andrei)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 19:32:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim4 + Mailman :: No mail to lists members
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100531100110070332f75449@msapiro>
References: <AANLkTimfkvAGtke78MMyJogI4BECZTdkLM-wmVYX4o0Z@mail.gmail.com> 
	<PC19520100531100110070332f75449@msapiro>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimuuk94ag-axpM5vEDDaUNSFLQvSQPrvEsZ6rxS@mail.gmail.com>

And I check both address with gmail... wonderfull
It's seem "How to trash 1 day for a stupid thing" feature ;)

Thank you Mark, for all
Bye
Gabriel


2010/5/31 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

> Gabriel Andrei wrote:
> >
> >My problem is that I receive all notifications (adduser, pending requests,
> >etc), I add two address to mailman list, when I try to send a mail I
> receive
> >a moderation request, I accept  and in my exim mainlog I have:
> >2010-05-31 10:41:54 1OJ0ZG-0000iF-62 <=
> >mailman-bounces at mydomain.netH=localhost ([xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]) [::1]
> >P=esmtp S=3074
> >id=AANLkTimCnCj5UEdZun1F-mTLxHbZJcyEplQRZywPz-aW at mail.gmail$
> >2010-05-31 10:41:54 1OJ0ZG-0000iF-62 =>
> >gabriel at gabrielandrei.comR=dnslookup T=remote_smtp H=
> >mx.gabrielandrei.com [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
> >2010-05-31 10:41:54 1OJ0ZG-0000iF-62 =>
> >gabrielandrei79 at gmail.comR=dnslookup T=remote_smtp H=
> >gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
> >2010-05-31 10:41:54 1OJ0ZG-0000iF-62 Completed
> >
> >In my mail recipients I have nothing, also on spam folder, and if I give a
> >"exim -bp" the queue is empty.
> >
> >It's a mailman problem or an exim problem? why notification is send?
>
>
> This is neither a Mailman problem nor an Exim problem. It is a Gmail
> "feature". See this FAQ <http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>