From johnf at net2000.com.au Fri Jan 1 00:41:52 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 10:41:52 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman < > forum ? In-Reply-To: <87skazpz5y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <3.0.6.32.20091221184944.0253bba0@127.0.0.1> <3E871552-E8F7-4161-85B7-2E3536045C6F@shub-internet.org> <5e28j5hp6h2cddkveo37sps4ppfgus9i0c@4ax.com> <20091225011927.GG3079@amyl.org.uk> <87skazpz5y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 11:26:01 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >Adam McGreggor writes: > > However, with those caveats, one should be able to use the same > > *database*, and Joomla/Kunena/Drupal/phpBB2 could all co-exist, in the > > same database, just using different database table prefixes, e.g., >I rather doubt that's what John wants. I am guessing he wants *one* >user database, You guess correctly. This is because my web hoster limits the number of MySQL databases that one can have. From looking elsewhere that doesn't appear uncommon with Australian hosters. > *one* message database/archive, etc, etc, which >presents various different faces to users depending one whether they >access via mail, news, or forum. Exactly correct. >That's why Barry is focusing on various kind of adaptors, so that >different functions can share certain databases. Which will be a huge help IMO. :-) Regards, John. From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Jan 1 08:50:27 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 16:50:27 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Question In-Reply-To: References: <001d01ca88fa$93990100$bacb0300$@leleux@bitwiselogic.com> Message-ID: <87oclenu0s.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Mark Sapiro writes: > [1] I know that use of Listserv(r) as a generic term to refer to an > email list or email list management software is ubiquitious, and I'm > just pissing in the wind to fight it, Hey, the right to Do Things Right is why we're here, after all. So, you keep tilting at those windmills and I'll happily stand in front of you and take the blowback. ;-) Happy New Year to all the Mailman workers, and especially Barry, Mark, Tokio, Terry, and Brad! From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Jan 1 08:57:20 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 16:57:20 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman < > forum ? In-Reply-To: <20091231164711.GQ3079@amyl.org.uk> References: <3.0.6.32.20091221184944.0253bba0@127.0.0.1> <3E871552-E8F7-4161-85B7-2E3536045C6F@shub-internet.org> <5e28j5hp6h2cddkveo37sps4ppfgus9i0c@4ax.com> <20091225011927.GG3079@amyl.org.uk> <87skazpz5y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20091231164711.GQ3079@amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: <87my0yntpb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Adam McGreggor writes: > On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 11:26:01AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > Adam McGreggor writes: > > > However, with those caveats, one should be able to use the same > > > *database*, and Joomla/Kunena/Drupal/phpBB2 could all co-exist, in the > > > same database, just using different database table prefixes, e.g., > > > > I rather doubt that's what John wants. I am guessing he wants *one* > > user database, *one* message database/archive, etc, etc > > LDAP FTW :) LDAP makes great sense for an existing organization that wants to easily supply data about its members to the Mailman installation, but AFAIK the existing implementations would not be a good choice for a general backend, certainly not for the message archive, and probably not for the user database, either. From flyingcircus at westnet.com.au Fri Jan 1 00:16:45 2010 From: flyingcircus at westnet.com.au (Frank) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 10:16:45 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] webmail problems Message-ID: Hello, I am one of the two people authorised to enter email address into the mailing list for the "flying-circus.org" group. I noticed this morning that messages sent to circus6 at flying-circus.org are bouncing back with the message : The following message to was undeliverable. The reason for the problem: 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'This account cannot accept incoming mail.' I also get that message if I write to the mailman at that address. If I try to log in to the site, I get this message : CGI script error Error: No such list circus6_flying-circus.org Can you tell me what is wrong with the system and our webmail list? Thank you, Frank (for Ed Maycen) From joemailgroups at gmail.com Fri Jan 1 17:02:38 2010 From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (JRC Groups) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 08:02:38 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OS X SnowLeopard. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello, Mark. Thank you for your reply and answers. On 12/30/09 6:47 AM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: > List members are managed by Mailman as email addresses. They have > nothing to do with users on your server. Good to know. This makes setting up new members much easier and simpler. > If you ignore Apple's GUI and just use Mailman's web admin interface, > you can 'mass subscribe' members. > > There are also command-line tools for adding members and syncing > membership with a flat file. When you mention flat file are you referring to a plain text file ? If so, what specific format (or encoding) should be used for this file ? How exactly should it be formatted ? > There are others on this list who know more about Apple's OS-X server > implementation of Mailman, but I'm not one of them. > >> Q2. I am trying to set-up two versions of each mailing list so that one >> version allows attachments to be forwarded to subscribers along with the >> posts while the other version blocks the attachments and only forwards the >> text portion of the post. How can this be set-up in Mailman ? How can I >> manage attachment rules in Mailman and create this redundant mailing lists ? >> Where are attachments sent along with posts to the lists saved in OS X >> (folder address) ? > > I'm not sure I understand the question. You can set up two lists with > two different names. Use Mailman's Content Filtering to specify what > will be accepted and what will be filtered out. If you mean you want > posts to be sent to one address and some people to receive attachments > and some not, you can use an umbrella list for this (search the FAQ at > for "umbrella") The idea is to have a way to control or manage attachments on a per user base. I've experienced this is the past with mailings lists I have subscribed. Many subscribers are on fast broadband these days and like to receive images and other attachments along with their messages. On the other hand there are those who are on slow connections and even dial-up. These don't like to receive attachments as they slow things down and take a while to download specially when the list is a busy one with numerous posts per day. My idea was to set-up two separate lists. Posts would be sent to one single address and then forwarded to two lists - one with and one without attachments. Subscribers would have the option to subscribe to one list or the other depending on whether they chose to receive attachments. According to what you stated above it seems there is a fairly simpler way to accomplishing this task. I've looked at the pages describing the "umbrella" list concept. It is certainly an option to keep in mind but I would prefer another simpler solution as I noticed the notes about possible problems and workarounds. Is there a way to set-up user preferences so that every user can have its subscription set to either receive or block attachments ? This would make things a lot easier and allow me to address this issue very easily. >> Where are attachments sent along with posts to the lists saved in OS X >> (folder address) ? > > Attachments not removed by content filtering are saved in the list's > archives. in a default Mailman install, this would be in > sub-directories of > /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments/. I think in > OS-X server, this translates to > /var/mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments/ or > /private/var/mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments/. See the > FAQ at . Can content filtering be set-up to block or allow certain specific types of files ? Considering the answer to be yes, would it be possible to set content filtering to allow images files but place a restriction on the size and/or resolution of the files sent as attachments ? Thank you again for your reply and helpful answers. Joe From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 1 17:18:20 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 08:18:20 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] webmail problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Frank wrote: > >I am one of the two people authorised to enter email address into the mailing list for the "flying-circus.org" group. > >I noticed this morning that messages sent to circus6 at flying-circus.org are bouncing back with the message : > >The following message to was undeliverable. >The reason for the problem: >5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'This account cannot accept incoming mail.' > >I also get that message if I write to the mailman at that address. > >If I try to log in to the site, I get this message : > >CGI script error >Error: No such list circus6_flying-circus.org It appears that your list has been deleted from the hosting server at flying-circus.org. There's nothing that we at mailman-users at python.org can do about this. It appears that the flying-circus.org domain is hosted at bluehost . You will have to contact bluehost for further information/help. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 1 17:46:34 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 08:46:34 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OS XSnowLeopard. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: JRC Groups wrote: > >On 12/30/09 6:47 AM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: > >> There are also command-line tools for adding members and syncing >> membership with a flat file. > >When you mention flat file are you referring to a plain text file ? If so, >what specific format (or encoding) should be used for this file ? How >exactly should it be formatted ? Yes, a plain text file with one address per line. Addresses can be formatted in any standard (RFC 2822 compliant) way. See the FAQ at for some examples. >> I'm not sure I understand the question. You can set up two lists with >> two different names. Use Mailman's Content Filtering to specify what >> will be accepted and what will be filtered out. If you mean you want >> posts to be sent to one address and some people to receive attachments >> and some not, you can use an umbrella list for this (search the FAQ at >> for "umbrella") > >The idea is to have a way to control or manage attachments on a per user >base. I've experienced this is the past with mailings lists I have >subscribed. Many subscribers are on fast broadband these days and like to >receive images and other attachments along with their messages. On the other >hand there are those who are on slow connections and even dial-up. These >don't like to receive attachments as they slow things down and take a while >to download specially when the list is a busy one with numerous posts per >day. My idea was to set-up two separate lists. Posts would be sent to one >single address and then forwarded to two lists - one with and one without >attachments. Subscribers would have the option to subscribe to one list or >the other depending on whether they chose to receive attachments. > >According to what you stated above it seems there is a fairly simpler way to >accomplishing this task. I've looked at the pages describing the "umbrella" >list concept. It is certainly an option to keep in mind but I would prefer >another simpler solution as I noticed the notes about possible problems and >workarounds. I think an umbrella list is appropriate for your requirement. Most of the issues with umbrella lists have to do with people who are members of more than one subordinate list receiving multiple copies of posts, but you won't have people who are members of both subordinates. >Is there a way to set-up user preferences so that every user can have its >subscription set to either receive or block attachments ? This would make >things a lot easier and allow me to address this issue very easily. This cannot be done in current Mailman except perhaps by overloading some existing user option and either implementing a custom handler (see the FAQ at ) or modifying the existing MimeDel (content filtering) handler to process it. >Can content filtering be set-up to block or allow certain specific types of >files ? Considering the answer to be yes, would it be possible to set >content filtering to allow images files but place a restriction on the size >and/or resolution of the files sent as attachments ? Content filtering is set per list (the sub-lists in your case). It passes or filters MIME message parts based on MIME content type, and also optionally on 'extension' of attached files. Content filtering per se does not have a way to deal with the size of any attached message parts or the resolution of any image/* parts, but there is a maximum message size (for new lists in a default install, this defaults to 40KB) that applies to all messages on a per list basis that will result in all messages exceeding that size being held for moderator approval. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From cpz at tuunq.com Fri Jan 1 20:49:50 2010 From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 11:49:50 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OS X SnowLeopard. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B3E51DE.2010704@tuunq.com> JRC Groups wrote: > Is there a way to set-up user preferences so that every user can have its > subscription set to either receive or block attachments ? This would make > things a lot easier and allow me to address this issue very easily. It might be easier to achieve with user education. Many 'modern' mail clients can be configured to automatically (or not) download attachments and whether (or not) to display images. I know Thunderbird does this, and IIRC outlook will, too. And, of course, web mail generally doesn't download anything (except images, that's usually configurable) until someone clicks on the link. z! From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 1 21:43:18 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 12:43:18 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OS XSnowLeopard. In-Reply-To: <4B3E51DE.2010704@tuunq.com> Message-ID: Carl Zwanzig wrote: > >It might be easier to achieve with user education. Many 'modern' mail >clients can be configured to automatically (or not) download attachments and >whether (or not) to display images. I know Thunderbird does this, and IIRC >outlook will, too. If you really mean 'attachments' and not just things like remote images linked from HTML message parts, this would require IMAP access to the mail server. POP3 protocol only has the TOP command for retrieving partial messages and all it can do is retrieve the headers and the first n body lines (body in the RFC 822 sense where the body includes all the MIME headers, boundaries, etc.). Further, most POP clients just retrieve all new messages on the server in their entirety when asked to 'check mail'. And even with IMAP, it seems that at least Thunderbird with it's new 3.0 'Synchronize IMAP Messages' feature is moving towards unconditionally downloading all messages in their entirety. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov Fri Jan 1 23:28:59 2010 From: andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov (Andrew Watson) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 14:28:59 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman lists to new server, same domain name Message-ID: <3BF57AD3-70B6-495B-802A-3026B26E443B@nasa.gov> I am moving a number of lists to a new server. Eventually the new server will have the same domain name as the old, so I don't think I need to change urls. I have read the FAQs, and lots of emails on this list, and I think I know what to do, but would like to be sure I am not missing something. I have installed mailman 2.10 on the new server, and now plan to move the lists and archives. /.migrate contains copies of files from the old server on the new server. The commands I plan (on the new server) are as follows: cp -npvR /.migrate/usr/local/mailman/archives/ /usr/local/mailman/archives cp -npvR /.migrate/usr/local/mailman/lists/ /usr/local/mailman/lists Sound right? Is there anything else I need to do? Also, does it matter what I selected during installation for the mailman administrators email? (I accepted default: root at mydomain.com ) Andrew From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 2 01:40:25 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 16:40:25 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman lists to new server, same domain name In-Reply-To: <3BF57AD3-70B6-495B-802A-3026B26E443B@nasa.gov> Message-ID: Andrew Watson wrote: >I am moving a number of lists to a new server. >Eventually the new server will have the same domain name as the old, so I don't think I need to change urls. OK. >I have read the FAQs, and lots of emails on this list, and I think I know what to do, but would like to be sure I am not missing something. >I have installed mailman 2.10 on the new server, and now plan to move the lists and archives. >/.migrate contains copies of files from the old server on the new server. >The commands I plan (on the new server) are as follows: > >cp -npvR /.migrate/usr/local/mailman/archives/ /usr/local/mailman/archives >cp -npvR /.migrate/usr/local/mailman/lists/ /usr/local/mailman/lists > >Sound right? >Is there anything else I need to do? I'm not sure what flavor of cp you're using, but particularly when copying the archives, you need to specify whatever will copy symlinks as symlinks and not copy their targets (often -d). Otherwise, it seems OK. >Also, does it matter what I selected during installation for the mailman administrators email? (I accepted default: root at mydomain.com ) I don't know what this does. Presumably you are installing a package and this is meaningful to the package. Perhaps it sets the owner of the 'mailman'; site list. The site list owner definitely needs to be a deliverable address that someone reads. Also, mail to the site list itself from non-members should be accepted and read by someone. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov Sun Jan 3 00:06:22 2010 From: andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov (Andrew Watson) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:06:22 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman lists to new server, same domain name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <814D2A06-7BC9-47D6-8EE0-3C4119FD26B9@nasa.gov> Thanks for the help. It is much appreciated. I moved the files as planned, and all is well except that some owner and group specifications differ on old and new servers. Specifically: 1) on the old server, all files in /usr/local/mailman/lists and /user/local/mailman/archives have group mailman, but group wheel on the new server. 2) on the old server, all archives/public files are owned by www, but on the new server by root. 3) on the old server, all .mbox files in archives/private are owned by www, but on the new server by root. 4) on the old server, all files in lists are owned by www, but on the new server by root. Should I correct all owner and group states to match the old server? From previous posts, I gather that owner is not important but that group MUST be "mailman". Thanks again, Andrew On Jan 1, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Andrew Watson wrote: > >> I am moving a number of lists to a new server. >> Eventually the new server will have the same domain name as the old, so I don't think I need to change urls. > > > OK. > > >> I have read the FAQs, and lots of emails on this list, and I think I know what to do, but would like to be sure I am not missing something. >> I have installed mailman 2.10 on the new server, and now plan to move the lists and archives. >> /.migrate contains copies of files from the old server on the new server. >> The commands I plan (on the new server) are as follows: >> >> cp -npvR /.migrate/usr/local/mailman/archives/ /usr/local/mailman/archives >> cp -npvR /.migrate/usr/local/mailman/lists/ /usr/local/mailman/lists >> >> Sound right? >> Is there anything else I need to do? > > > I'm not sure what flavor of cp you're using, but particularly when > copying the archives, you need to specify whatever will copy symlinks > as symlinks and not copy their targets (often -d). > > Otherwise, it seems OK. > > >> Also, does it matter what I selected during installation for the mailman administrators email? (I accepted default: root at mydomain.com ) > > > I don't know what this does. Presumably you are installing a package > and this is meaningful to the package. Perhaps it sets the owner of > the 'mailman'; site list. > > The site list owner definitely needs to be a deliverable address that > someone reads. Also, mail to the site list itself from non-members > should be accepted and read by someone. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 3 00:42:56 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:42:56 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman lists to new server, same domain name In-Reply-To: <814D2A06-7BC9-47D6-8EE0-3C4119FD26B9@nasa.gov> Message-ID: Andrew Watson wrote: > >1) on the old server, all files in /usr/local/mailman/lists and >/user/local/mailman/archives have group mailman, but group wheel on the >new server. This needs to be fixed. Everything needs to be Mailman's group >2) on the old server, all archives/public files are owned by www, but on >the new server by root. > There should be no archives/public files at all; only symlinks. Ownership of symlinks is irrelevant. If the old server had actual files in archives/public rather than symlinks, the best recourse may be to rebuild the archive for those lists with bin/arch --wipe >3) on the old server, all .mbox files in archives/private are owned by >www, but on the new server by root. This doesn't matter. It's the group that's important, not the owner. >4) on the old server, all files in lists are owned by www, but on the See 3. >Should I correct all owner and group states to match the old server? >From previous posts, I gather that owner is not important but that >group MUST be "mailman". First, run bin/check_perms -f as root on the new server until it either fixes everything or gets to a "no change" point. That may be enough, but if there are files left that aren't in Mailman's group, you can fix thiose by hand. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov Sun Jan 3 04:04:40 2010 From: andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov (Andrew Watson) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 19:04:40 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman lists to new server, same domain name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great. Did as you suggested. Then switched DNS to new IP. Sent first test message to one of the lists (hs), but it bounced. Edited bounce message below: > #< #5.0.0 X-Postfix; host mysite.com[128.xxx.xxx.xxx] said: 553 5.3.0 ... User unknown (in reply to RCPT TO command)> #SMTP# I ran newaliases. Same result. The alias hs does appear in the /etc/mail/aliases: hs: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post hs" There is a duplicate definition of the mailman alias, but the two are identical. Maybe it makes newaliases unhappy? Any suggestions? Very, very grateful for your help. -Andrew On Jan 2, 2010, at 3:42 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Andrew Watson wrote: >> >> 1) on the old server, all files in /usr/local/mailman/lists and >> /user/local/mailman/archives have group mailman, but group wheel on the >> new server. > > > This needs to be fixed. Everything needs to be Mailman's group > > >> 2) on the old server, all archives/public files are owned by www, but on >> the new server by root. >> > > There should be no archives/public files at all; only symlinks. > Ownership of symlinks is irrelevant. > > If the old server had actual files in archives/public rather than > symlinks, the best recourse may be to rebuild the archive for those > lists with > > bin/arch --wipe > > >> 3) on the old server, all .mbox files in archives/private are owned by >> www, but on the new server by root. > > > This doesn't matter. It's the group that's important, not the owner. > > >> 4) on the old server, all files in lists are owned by www, but on the > > > See 3. > > >> Should I correct all owner and group states to match the old server? >> From previous posts, I gather that owner is not important but that >> group MUST be "mailman". > > > First, run > > bin/check_perms -f > > as root on the new server until it either fixes everything or gets to a > "no change" point. That may be enough, but if there are files left > that aren't in Mailman's group, you can fix thiose by hand. > > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 3 15:57:47 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 06:57:47 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman lists to new server, same domain name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Andrew Watson wrote: > >Then switched DNS to new IP. >Sent first test message to one of the lists (hs), but it bounced. Edited bounce message below: > >> #< #5.0.0 X-Postfix; host mysite.com[128.xxx.xxx.xxx] said: 553 5.3.0 ... User unknown (in reply to RCPT TO command)> #SMTP# > >I ran newaliases. Same result. > >The alias hs does appear in the /etc/mail/aliases: > >hs: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post hs" > > >There is a duplicate definition of the mailman alias, but the two are >identical. Maybe it makes newaliases unhappy? What's in mm_cfg.py? What's the output from postconf -n? What does "ls -l /usr/local/mailman/data" give? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov Sun Jan 3 20:23:41 2010 From: andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov (Andrew Watson) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:23:41 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman lists to new server, same domain name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> What's in mm_cfg.py? mm_cfg.py is empty on the new server. on the old server it contains: DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'visionscience.com' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'visionscience.com' VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) I added these lines to the new server, but it did not fix the problem. >> What's the output from postconf -n? This is evidently a postfix command. Where do I find/run this? "locate postconf" returns nothing. I do not find a folder /etc/postfix (on either old or new server). How do I tell if postfix is installed? Does the bounce message (below) indicate that postfix is installed? > What does "ls > -l /usr/local/mailman/data" give? visionscience# ls -l /usr/local/mailman/data total 16 -rw-r----- 1 root mailman 41 Dec 31 23:01 adm.pw -rw-r--r-- 1 root mailman 10 May 29 2008 last_mailman_version -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 6 Dec 31 23:01 master-qrunner.pid -rw-r--r-- 1 root mailman 14114 May 29 2008 sitelist.cfg Thanks and regards, Andrew On Jan 3, 2010, at 6:57 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Andrew Watson wrote: >> >> Then switched DNS to new IP. >> Sent first test message to one of the lists (hs), but it bounced. Edited bounce message below: >> >>> #< #5.0.0 X-Postfix; host mysite.com[128.xxx.xxx.xxx] said: 553 5.3.0 ... User unknown (in reply to RCPT TO command)> #SMTP# >> >> I ran newaliases. Same result. >> >> The alias hs does appear in the /etc/mail/aliases: >> >> hs: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post hs" >> >> >> There is a duplicate definition of the mailman alias, but the two are >> identical. Maybe it makes newaliases unhappy? > > > What's in mm_cfg.py? What's the output from postconf -n? What does "ls > -l /usr/local/mailman/data" give? > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 3 21:16:59 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 12:16:59 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman lists to new server, same domain name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B40FB3B.7020803@msapiro.net> On 1/3/2010 11:23 AM, Andrew Watson wrote: >>> What's in mm_cfg.py? > mm_cfg.py is empty on the new server. > on the old server it contains: > > DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'visionscience.com' > DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'visionscience.com' > VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() > add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) > > I added these lines to the new server, but it did not fix the problem. OK. >>> What's the output from postconf -n? > > This is evidently a postfix command. Where do I find/run this? > "locate postconf" returns nothing. > I do not find a folder /etc/postfix (on either old or new server). How do I tell if postfix is installed? > Does the bounce message (below) indicate that postfix is installed? I was under the mistaken impression that your MTA was Postfix. I was thrown off by the fact the the MTA that attempted to send the post to Mailman was Postfix. As you clarified in an off-list PS, you have Sendmail on the Mailman server, so what's in sendmail's log (the system maillog?) corresponding to the rejected post? >> What does "ls >> -l /usr/local/mailman/data" give? This was relevant for Postfix, not Sendmail. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Mon Jan 4 02:26:57 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 12:26:57 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman < > forum ? In-Reply-To: <3E871552-E8F7-4161-85B7-2E3536045C6F@shub-internet.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20091221184944.0253bba0@127.0.0.1> <3E871552-E8F7-4161-85B7-2E3536045C6F@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <3vd2k5lf6pkavlc1p4rmhahibc68f0g9ug@4ax.com> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:56:19 -0600, Brad Knowles wrote: >On Dec 21, 2009, at 1:49 AM, John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Brad, >> Are there currently *any* web forum(s) that enable forum/mailman >> mirroring ? In other words a Mailman email going to a web forum and >> vica versa ? >Search the FAQ wizard for "web forum". You should find a link to an article that talks about Joomla. That's the best integration I know of, although I'm sure there are others. Found it. Thanks. Backupcentral suggests that their bridge works BUT I don't know whether it will work with Mailman 2.1.11 PLUS Joomla 1.5 PLUS phpBB3. My hosting server only allows me three databases so I don't want to install Joomla, and phpBB3, (using maybe two databases) and then find out that everything will not work together. They have a mailing list called "testy" for it but when I asked a few questions I got a partial answer from only one person. There are a number of unanswered questions I still have. These are really VERY basic questions. For example, what files go in what directories ? Does it matter how deep the directories are etc. ? Does one need shell access ? They say... "1. Install the component via standard install procedures." What are "standard install procedures" ? For windows users that is simply double clicking an .exe file. What does that mean when translated to unix ? If it is as simple as FTPing files then why not say so ? Then tell people where they need to go. They then say "Point your admin browser to Components..." What's an admin browser ? Is that any different than a web browser ? Or are they talking about a telnet connection ? It is interesting how that site talks about an email to web forum bridge but they discuss it in a mailing list only. If the bridge works then I appear to have missed where the testy web forum address is. Also, why Joomla ? Previous software bridges that I have investigated have been from Mailman to phpBB2. No mention of Joomla being needed. So why the above comments ? So that people on this list, who aren't unix experts, can think twice before they try to install a product that probably doesn't work with current installations and has almost zero support. >> I believe that something like this could work with phpbb2 but not the >> current release. Can anyone help please ? >I'm not personally aware of anything, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I am still looking. :-( A pity, as it would have hugely increased the popularity of Mailman had it worked. There are many web forums around. Adding an email list to them would make them/Mailman far more popular. Regards, John. From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Mon Jan 4 10:15:15 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:15:15 +0200 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman < > forum ? In-Reply-To: <3vd2k5lf6pkavlc1p4rmhahibc68f0g9ug@4ax.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20091221184944.0253bba0@127.0.0.1> <3E871552-E8F7-4161-85B7-2E3536045C6F@shub-internet.org> <3vd2k5lf6pkavlc1p4rmhahibc68f0g9ug@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, John Fitzsimons wrote: > They say... > > "1. Install the component via standard install procedures." > > What are "standard install procedures" ? For windows users that > is simply double clicking an .exe file. What does that mean when > translated to unix ? If it is as simple as FTPing files then why not > say so ? Then tell people where they need to go. I expect that in this case, "standard install procedures" means standard install procedures for Joomla. Depending on how they handle this sort of thing, it may or may not require shell access. I'm guessing not, as some hosted sites wouldn't provide such access, but I don't know for sure. > They then say "Point your admin browser to Components..." What's an > admin browser ? Is that any different than a web browser ? Or are they > talking about a telnet connection ? I'm guessing they're saying "Log in as admin and go to Components". > It is interesting how that site talks about an email to web forum > bridge but they discuss it in a mailing list only. If the bridge works > then I appear to have missed where the testy web forum address is. Presumably the forum is the same as the mailing list. Geoff. From joemailgroups at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 17:25:49 2010 From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (JRC Groups) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:25:49 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OS X SnowLeopard. In-Reply-To: <4B3E51DE.2010704@tuunq.com> Message-ID: Hi, Carl. Thanks for your reply and helpful suggestion. On 1/1/10 11:49 AM, "Carl Zwanzig" wrote: > JRC Groups wrote: > >> Is there a way to set-up user preferences so that every user can have its >> subscription set to either receive or block attachments ? This would make >> things a lot easier and allow me to address this issue very easily. > > It might be easier to achieve with user education. Many 'modern' mail > clients can be configured to automatically (or not) download attachments and > whether (or not) to display images. I know Thunderbird does this, and IIRC > outlook will, too. And, of course, web mail generally doesn't download > anything (except images, that's usually configurable) until someone clicks > on the link. > > z! The problem I have with this approach is the fact that I depend on users to do this. Over the years I've noticed that the target audience for mailing lists can basically be divided into two groups: tech-inclined subscribers and non-tech friendly folks. The lists I am creating are unfortunately for the second group. This is my target audience and I would benefit from making it as simple as I can for them. I will keep your suggestion in mind and try it in case I am not able to implement another solution. Thanks again, Joe From joemailgroups at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 17:29:31 2010 From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (JRC Groups) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:29:31 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OS X Snow Leopard. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Mark. Thanks for your really helpful replies to my posts. On 1/1/10 12:43 PM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: > Carl Zwanzig wrote: >> >> It might be easier to achieve with user education. Many 'modern' mail >> clients can be configured to automatically (or not) download attachments and >> whether (or not) to display images. I know Thunderbird does this, and IIRC >> outlook will, too. > > > If you really mean 'attachments' and not just things like remote images > linked from HTML message parts, this would require IMAP access to the > mail server. POP3 protocol only has the TOP command for retrieving > partial messages and all it can do is retrieve the headers and the > first n body lines (body in the RFC 822 sense where the body includes > all the MIME headers, boundaries, etc.). Further, most POP clients > just retrieve all new messages on the server in their entirety when > asked to 'check mail'. > > And even with IMAP, it seems that at least Thunderbird with it's new > 3.0 'Synchronize IMAP Messages' feature is moving towards > unconditionally downloading all messages in their entirety. I just read your post above after replying to Carl's and it became clear that this is not the right approach for my case. Considering this I will try some of the other solutions you have suggested as I want to make this a simple and straightforward experience for my subscribers. Thanks, Joe From joemailgroups at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 17:38:50 2010 From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (JRC Groups) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:38:50 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OS XSnowLeopard. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Mark. On 1/1/10 8:46 AM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: > JRC Groups wrote: >> >> On 12/30/09 6:47 AM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: >> >>> There are also command-line tools for adding members and syncing >>> membership with a flat file. >> >> When you mention flat file are you referring to a plain text file ? If so, >> what specific format (or encoding) should be used for this file ? How >> exactly should it be formatted ? > > > Yes, a plain text file with one address per line. Addresses can be > formatted in any standard (RFC 2822 compliant) way. See the FAQ at > for some examples. Thanks. I will definitely look into this as it seems to be the perfect solution for my case and a way to make it simple to manage subscriptions. >>> I'm not sure I understand the question. You can set up two lists with >>> two different names. Use Mailman's Content Filtering to specify what >>> will be accepted and what will be filtered out. If you mean you want >>> posts to be sent to one address and some people to receive attachments >>> and some not, you can use an umbrella list for this (search the FAQ at >>> for "umbrella") >> >> The idea is to have a way to control or manage attachments on a per user >> base. I've experienced this is the past with mailings lists I have >> subscribed. Many subscribers are on fast broadband these days and like to >> receive images and other attachments along with their messages. On the other >> hand there are those who are on slow connections and even dial-up. These >> don't like to receive attachments as they slow things down and take a while >> to download specially when the list is a busy one with numerous posts per >> day. My idea was to set-up two separate lists. Posts would be sent to one >> single address and then forwarded to two lists - one with and one without >> attachments. Subscribers would have the option to subscribe to one list or >> the other depending on whether they chose to receive attachments. >> >> According to what you stated above it seems there is a fairly simpler way to >> accomplishing this task. I've looked at the pages describing the "umbrella" >> list concept. It is certainly an option to keep in mind but I would prefer >> another simpler solution as I noticed the notes about possible problems and >> workarounds. > > > I think an umbrella list is appropriate for your requirement. Most of > the issues with umbrella lists have to do with people who are members > of more than one subordinate list receiving multiple copies of posts, > but you won't have people who are members of both subordinates. This is indeed the case. All subscribers will either belong to one list or the other. Never both. One of the issues I noticed when reading the post has to do with replies from subscribers. Considering subscribers are either receiving mail from Sublist1 or Sublist2 but post are mailed to UmbrellaList1 what happens when a subscriber replies to a post ? Since he received it from (let's say) Sublist1 wouldn't the reply be sent back to the same list ? How can this be resolved in setting up this system ? >> Is there a way to set-up user preferences so that every user can have its >> subscription set to either receive or block attachments ? This would make >> things a lot easier and allow me to address this issue very easily. > This cannot be done in current Mailman except perhaps by overloading > some existing user option and either implementing a custom handler > (see the FAQ at ) or modifying the > existing MimeDel (content filtering) handler to process it. Let's not go there. Already sounds way too complicated. May I suggest this for future releases as a feature request ? I think this would be very helpful and a feature all administrators would really benefit from. >> Can content filtering be set-up to block or allow certain specific types of >> files ? Considering the answer to be yes, would it be possible to set >> content filtering to allow images files but place a restriction on the size >> and/or resolution of the files sent as attachments ? > Content filtering is set per list (the sub-lists in your case). It > passes or filters MIME message parts based on MIME content type, and > also optionally on 'extension' of attached files. Content filtering > per se does not have a way to deal with the size of any attached > message parts or the resolution of any image/* parts, but there is a > maximum message size (for new lists in a default install, this > defaults to 40KB) that applies to all messages on a per list basis > that will result in all messages exceeding that size being held for > moderator approval. Same thing here. Would it be possible to add this as a feature request ? I think it would really beneficial to have limits set-up per list and also some control over the way individual subscribers receive their posts. Some might like attachments while others may prefer to have them blocked. Thank you again for your replies and really helpful suggestions. Joe From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Mon Jan 4 17:42:29 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:42:29 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman < > forum ? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20091221184944.0253bba0@127.0.0.1> <3E871552-E8F7-4161-85B7-2E3536045C6F@shub-internet.org> <3vd2k5lf6pkavlc1p4rmhahibc68f0g9ug@4ax.com> Message-ID: <20100104164229.GK3079@amyl.org.uk> On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 11:15:15AM +0200, Geoff Shang wrote: > On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, John Fitzsimons wrote: > >It is interesting how that site talks about an email to web forum > >bridge but they discuss it in a mailing list only. If the bridge works > >then I appear to have missed where the testy web forum address is. > > Presumably the forum is the same as the mailing list. states that there's an IRC channel. That may be useful for joomla queries. -- ``My years of hip-hop sessions came in handy as I could converse well with Fast Fingers. I knew the lingo and when to use it, and as far as he was concerned, I was one of the brothers. Strangely, neither of us was one of the brothers, but I figure that's just a technicality.'' (`MixerMan') From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Mon Jan 4 18:11:08 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 19:11:08 +0200 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OS XSnowLeopard. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, JRC Groups wrote: > This is indeed the case. All subscribers will either belong to one list or > the other. Never both. One of the issues I noticed when reading the post has > to do with replies from subscribers. Considering subscribers are either > receiving mail from Sublist1 or Sublist2 but post are mailed to > UmbrellaList1 what happens when a subscriber replies to a post ? Since he > received it from (let's say) Sublist1 wouldn't the reply be sent back to the > same list ? How can this be resolved in setting up this system ? Set each sublist to reply to a specific address and fill in your posting address there. This is in the General settings. Cheers, Geoff. From alan.mckay at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 18:16:29 2010 From: alan.mckay at gmail.com (Alan McKay) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:16:29 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] odd problem with mailman holding mail in outgoing queue Message-ID: <844129e81001040916l78601234o2846ff6c94bda59c@mail.gmail.com> Hey folks, I've been running a FreeBSD / Postfix / Mailman list server for some 7 or 8 years now. The last time I updated FreeBSD was about 3 years ago so it is only at 6.0. That was also the last time I updated Postfix and Mailman until this recent spat of problems which prompted me to upgrade both to the latest stable versions (as of yesterday). So 2.1.13 in the case of Mailman. Things have been running fine on this server for years with nary an issue. I have not made any changes recently, so it was quite troublesome when this problem started a few days ago. My lists started experiencing 10 and 12 hour delays between mail coming in, and going back out again. If I look at message headers I can see Postfix gets the message, then hands off to mailman, then it sits there for hours on end, and finally gets sent out. I should mention that this is a pretty lightly loaded system. The lists are basically personal hobby lists - the busiest of which gets maybe 100 to 200 emails a day. It is also a web server but traffic is pretty light. Load average is usually under 1. I spent a good 12 to 14 hours yesterday looking into this - went through some of the archives for this list, as well as the FAQ wiki. Found a few similar problems but nothing just the same. I look in the Mailman logs dir. Nothing really onerous that I see. I look in smtp and see what looks like normal processing. e.g. one of my lists looks like it had a number of messages just a few minutes ago, but I have not seen them yet where normally I would expect to see them almost instantly. Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805) <3f1854170912301503l375e2259k439e633f55b8bffa at mail.gmail.com> smtp to brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.055 seconds Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805) <3f1854170912301511m39e7eb9djc157df16d753bef1 at mail.gmail.com> smtp to brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805) <6e40ba2b0912301514j5bbd84b5maef5a93e4c46b11 at mail.gmail.com> smtp to brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.053 seconds Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805) <54a6f3cb0912301520r2dd77b03i5ebd8492b4af5bbc at mail.gmail.com> smtp to brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.040 seconds Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805) smtp to brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.050 seconds Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805) <8d0a26d70912301627o1571ababscf8396703e9bbb27 at mail.gmail.com> smtp to brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.052 seconds smtp-failure seems to contain not much else other than reports of bogus email addresses. I've used this as an opportunity to weed out most of them, but there are still messages that had been queued up for them so I'm not sure how long it will take those to fail delivery. For example if I "tail -10000" (ten thousand) that file and grep out the 5 main bogus email addresses, I get one single line : Jan 04 12:07:50 2010 (50034) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted system call'), msgid: But i have been unable to find out what this means. But given that I only see it once I am not too worried about it really. Can someone tell me where to look as to why stuff is getting backed up in the outgoing queue? -- ?Don't eat anything you've ever seen advertised on TV? - Michael Pollan, author of "In Defense of Food" From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 4 18:38:56 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:38:56 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OSXSnowLeopard. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff Shang wrote: >On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, JRC Groups wrote: > >> This is indeed the case. All subscribers will either belong to one list or >> the other. Never both. One of the issues I noticed when reading the post has >> to do with replies from subscribers. Considering subscribers are either >> receiving mail from Sublist1 or Sublist2 but post are mailed to >> UmbrellaList1 what happens when a subscriber replies to a post ? Since he >> received it from (let's say) Sublist1 wouldn't the reply be sent back to the >> same list ? How can this be resolved in setting up this system ? > >Set each sublist to reply to a specific address and fill in your posting >address there. This is in the General settings. But you probably don't need to mung the reply-to, at least for the sublists. Assuming no reply-to munging at all, the original post will always be From: the OP and To: the umbrella. Thus reply will go to the OP and reply-all to the OP and the umbrella, just as for a non-umbrella case. If you want to mung a reply-to, munging the umbrella to reply-to the umbrella should suffice as that reply-to will pass through the sublists unchanged. The only place you have a problem is if the member's MUA offers list reply based on the List-Post: header. This then may go to that member's sublist only. The answer to this is to set include_rfc2369_headers or at least include_list_post_header to No on the sublists. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 4 18:48:26 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:48:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OSXSnowLeopard. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: JRC Groups wrote: > >On 1/1/10 8:46 AM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: > >> JRC Groups wrote: [...] >> >> I think an umbrella list is appropriate for your requirement. Most of >> the issues with umbrella lists have to do with people who are members >> of more than one subordinate list receiving multiple copies of posts, >> but you won't have people who are members of both subordinates. > >This is indeed the case. All subscribers will either belong to one list or >the other. Never both. One of the issues I noticed when reading the post has >to do with replies from subscribers. Considering subscribers are either >receiving mail from Sublist1 or Sublist2 but post are mailed to >UmbrellaList1 what happens when a subscriber replies to a post ? Since he >received it from (let's say) Sublist1 wouldn't the reply be sent back to the >same list ? How can this be resolved in setting up this system ? See my reply to Geoff Shang's reply. >>> Is there a way to set-up user preferences so that every user can have its >>> subscription set to either receive or block attachments ? This would make >>> things a lot easier and allow me to address this issue very easily. > >> This cannot be done in current Mailman except perhaps by overloading >> some existing user option and either implementing a custom handler >> (see the FAQ at ) or modifying the >> existing MimeDel (content filtering) handler to process it. > >Let's not go there. Already sounds way too complicated. May I suggest this >for future releases as a feature request ? I think this would be very >helpful and a feature all administrators would really benefit from. The best place to submit feature requests is to the tracker at . >>> Can content filtering be set-up to block or allow certain specific types of >>> files ? Considering the answer to be yes, would it be possible to set >>> content filtering to allow images files but place a restriction on the size >>> and/or resolution of the files sent as attachments ? > >> Content filtering is set per list (the sub-lists in your case). It >> passes or filters MIME message parts based on MIME content type, and >> also optionally on 'extension' of attached files. Content filtering >> per se does not have a way to deal with the size of any attached >> message parts or the resolution of any image/* parts, but there is a >> maximum message size (for new lists in a default install, this >> defaults to 40KB) that applies to all messages on a per list basis >> that will result in all messages exceeding that size being held for >> moderator approval. > >Same thing here. Would it be possible to add this as a feature request ? See above. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 4 19:05:32 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:05:32 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] odd problem with mailman holding mail in outgoingqueue In-Reply-To: <844129e81001040916l78601234o2846ff6c94bda59c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Alan McKay wrote: > >I look in the Mailman logs dir. Nothing really onerous that I see. >I look in smtp and see what looks like normal processing. e.g. one of >my lists looks like it had a number of messages just a few minutes >ago, but I have not seen them yet where normally I would expect to see >them almost instantly. > >Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805) ><3f1854170912301503l375e2259k439e633f55b8bffa at mail.gmail.com> smtp to >brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.055 seconds >Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805) ><3f1854170912301511m39e7eb9djc157df16d753bef1 at mail.gmail.com> smtp to >brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds >Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805) ><6e40ba2b0912301514j5bbd84b5maef5a93e4c46b11 at mail.gmail.com> smtp to >brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.053 seconds >Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805) ><54a6f3cb0912301520r2dd77b03i5ebd8492b4af5bbc at mail.gmail.com> smtp to >brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.040 seconds >Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805) > smtp to >brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.050 seconds >Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805) ><8d0a26d70912301627o1571ababscf8396703e9bbb27 at mail.gmail.com> smtp to >brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.052 seconds Those messages have been delivered to the MTA. If the list has just 3 eligible recipients, that looks backlogged but otherwise normal. If the messages haven't been delibvered, check the MTA (mailq or whatever). >smtp-failure seems to contain not much else other than reports of >bogus email addresses. I've used this as an opportunity to weed out >most of them, but there are still messages that had been queued up for >them so I'm not sure how long it will take those to fail delivery. >For example if I "tail -10000" (ten thousand) that file and grep out >the 5 main bogus email addresses, I get one single line : > >Jan 04 12:07:50 2010 (50034) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted >system call'), msgid: > > >But i have been unable to find out what this means. But given that I >only see it once I am not too worried about it really. > >Can someone tell me where to look as to why stuff is getting backed up >in the outgoing queue? Your MTA is checking too much during SMTP from Mailman. It shouldn't be doing address verification or even domain verification on remote recipients. What is in Mailman's out/ and retry/ queues at this point? The out/ queue is almost certainly backlogged. You could try moving all the out/ and retry/ queue entries aside and then removing the bad addresses from them with the script at and then replacing the entries a few at a time. If the system is still slow, search the faq at for "performance". -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From henry at dotrose.com Mon Jan 4 18:36:32 2010 From: henry at dotrose.com (Henry Hartley) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 12:36:32 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman lists to new server, same domain name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B422720.6010300@dotrose.com> On 1/2/2010 10:04 PM, Andrew Watson wrote: >> #< #5.0.0 X-Postfix; host mysite.com[128.xxx.xxx.xxx] said: 553 >> 5.3.0... User unknown (in reply to RCPT TO command)> >> #SMTP# > > I ran newaliases. Same result. > The alias hs does appear in the /etc/mail/aliases: Look in /etc/mail/sendmail.mc for how ALIAS_FILE is defined and be sure it's defined as being /etc/mail/aliases. On my setup it's simply /etc/aliases so a file in /etc/mail would have no effect. -- Henry From alan.mckay at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 19:49:25 2010 From: alan.mckay at gmail.com (Alan McKay) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:49:25 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] odd problem with mailman holding mail in outgoingqueue In-Reply-To: References: <844129e81001040916l78601234o2846ff6c94bda59c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <844129e81001041049x678a362ard244c92cba47b3b7@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Those messages have been delivered to the MTA. If the list has just 3 > eligible recipients, that looks backlogged but otherwise normal. If > the messages haven't been delibvered, check the MTA (mailq or > whatever). Here it is almost 2 hours later and those messages are still not out yet! I forgot to mention in all of this that regular email to and from the system works fine. Emails to and from this Gmail account go back and forth in just a few seconds. > Your MTA is checking too much during SMTP from Mailman. It shouldn't be > doing address verification or even domain verification on remote > recipients. Hmmm, now, this is one thing that does change on my system. I use Postfix and do helo checking with a file of spammers to reject. I add a few entries to that file every month (maybe 3 or 4 at most). At present there are only 72 entries in that file. I also do general RBL checking which could well be also taking place from MM to Postfix. I'll have to go have a look. But it has been like this for years - at least 3 years since I last went through my Postfix config and tweaked it. The only change since then is spammer domains going into my helo_access file. > What is in Mailman's out/ and retry/ queues at this point? The out/ > queue is almost certainly backlogged. mailman at heimat$ ls qfiles/in/ | wc -l 8 mailman at heimat$ ls qfiles/out/ | wc -l 332 > You could try moving all the out/ and retry/ queue entries aside and > then removing the bad addresses from them with the script at > and then replacing the > entries a few at a time. OK, I'll give that a try. > If the system is still slow, search the faq at > for "performance". Will do. I had been searching on a number of terms, but not that one. Thanks for your time! -- ?Don't eat anything you've ever seen advertised on TV? - Michael Pollan, author of "In Defense of Food" From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 4 20:08:11 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:08:11 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] odd problem with mailman holding mail inoutgoingqueue In-Reply-To: <844129e81001041049x678a362ard244c92cba47b3b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Alan McKay wrote: >On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> Those messages have been delivered to the MTA. If the list has just 3 >> eligible recipients, that looks backlogged but otherwise normal. If >> the messages haven't been delibvered, check the MTA (mailq or >> whatever). > >Here it is almost 2 hours later and those messages are still not out yet! The specific ones in the smtp log were delivered to the MTA. They're either still queued in the MTA or they were delivered. Of course, they were the oldest of the 332 or whatever entries in the out queue. >> What is in Mailman's out/ and retry/ queues at this point? The out/ >> queue is almost certainly backlogged. > >mailman at heimat$ ls qfiles/in/ | wc -l > 8 I asked about retry/, not in/, but unless your lists are getting mail bombed or there is some kind of mail loop, 8 messages in the in/ queue is a lot. >mailman at heimat$ ls qfiles/out/ | wc -l > 332 How old is the oldest of these? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From alan.mckay at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 20:33:11 2010 From: alan.mckay at gmail.com (Alan McKay) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:33:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] odd problem with mailman holding mail inoutgoingqueue In-Reply-To: References: <844129e81001041049x678a362ard244c92cba47b3b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <844129e81001041133s4fe09a8di649d34937665a31a@mail.gmail.com> Well, I seem to have gotten it going again with some tweaks in my postfix. But that is still a mystery to me since it has worked fine like this for years. Thanks for your ears! Most notable below is my "new" IP vs my "old" IP. I changed ISPs a good 3 years ago now and evidently forgot to update my postfix config. But as mentioned, it has worked fine since then. < new > old < mynetworks = 172.30.99.0/24, 127.0.0.0/8, 206.248.138.32/32 --- > mynetworks = 172.30.99.0/24, 127.0.0.0/8, 72.1.199.184/32 244c244 < #local_recipient_maps = --- > local_recipient_maps = 261c261 < in_flow_delay = 0 --- > #in_flow_delay = 1s 478,479c478,479 < local_destination_concurrency_limit = 2 < default_destination_concurrency_limit = 4 --- > #local_destination_concurrency_limit = 2 > #default_destination_concurrency_limit = 10 583c583 < smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, --- > smtpd_recipient_restrictions = 631,632d630 < html_directory = no < data_directory = /var/lib/postfix -- ?Don't eat anything you've ever seen advertised on TV? - Michael Pollan, author of "In Defense of Food" From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 4 20:43:14 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:43:14 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] odd problem with mailman holding mailinoutgoingqueue In-Reply-To: <844129e81001041133s4fe09a8di649d34937665a31a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Alan McKay wrote: >Well, I seem to have gotten it going again with some tweaks in my >postfix. But that is still a mystery to me since it has worked fine >like this for years. It is possible that it has been marginal for some time and just some little extra pushed it over the edge into a seriously backlogged state. Once a backlog starts, it tends to get worse because people don't see their posts right away and repost. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From phanh at canby.k12.or.us Tue Jan 5 01:13:24 2010 From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:13:24 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete and re-create a list with same name Message-ID: Hello, We have a list which transfered over from a different platform and it has multiple issues that we couldn't figure out. We thinking of delete the list and re-create it with the same name. Will there be any issue with re-create the list with the same name? Will bin/rmlist erases all settings of the list? Thank you very much, From adamsca at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 01:34:34 2010 From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:34:34 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fell swoop? Message-ID: <27572d931001041634g2e52bf18nb4a97af4b0dcced8@mail.gmail.com> A spammer has subscribed completely unique addresses from the same domain to many of the mailing lists that we host. Is there a way to unsubscribe everything from this domain without writing a script that will do it? -- Christopher Adams adamsca at gmail.com From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 5 02:11:11 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:11:11 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete and re-create a list with same name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hung Phan wrote: > >We have a list which transfered over from a different platform and it >has multiple issues that we couldn't figure out. We thinking of delete >the list and re-create it with the same name. Will there be any issue >with re-create the list with the same name? Will bin/rmlist erases all >settings of the list? If you remove the list with bin/rmlist you can recreate it with the same name. If you want, you can omit the '-a' option from rmlist and the archives will still be available when you recreate the list. OTOH, if you describe the issues we may be able to help resolve them. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 5 02:25:03 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:25:03 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fellswoop? In-Reply-To: <27572d931001041634g2e52bf18nb4a97af4b0dcced8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Christopher Adams wrote: >A spammer has subscribed completely unique addresses from the same domain to >many of the mailing lists that we host. Is there a way to unsubscribe >everything from this domain without writing a script that will do it? If you mean 'automatically' as opposed to just manually going through the lists and unsubscribing addresses, no. However, there are lots of very simple scripts. Consider #!/bin/sh for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`; do bin/list_members $list | grep example.com | \ bin/remove_members -f - -n -N $list done where example.com is the domain. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rstasel at uoregon.edu Mon Jan 4 23:31:32 2010 From: rstasel at uoregon.edu (Ryan Stasel) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:31:32 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate messages Message-ID: <8D3945A1-AD5E-4EB1-9CFA-DFE4F87248CA@uoregon.edu> All, I did some searching and don't seem to be able to find anything in the archives related to this, so... I previously was running a series of lists on a Mac OS 10.4 Server, which I believe runs Mailman 2.1.3. And there were no real problems with duplicate messages. I have just now updated to 10.6.2, which runs Mailman 2.1.12rc1, and Dovecot (which I wouldn't think would impact anything). And yeah, already had to patch for the admindb error. Anyway, the problem is, I have several lists comprised of different classes of users... in this case: Faculty Staff Admin Students There are a few users that are members of several of these lists. So, let's say I'm a member of Faculty, and Staff. I have "nodups" checked for all the instances that I am in those lists, and in all places, my email address is listed the same (same email address, same all lower case). Okay, then I have a list called "Everyone" that has the above lists as members. In 10.4, with Mailman 2.1.3, if someone emailed to "everyone" I only got one copy of that message. Now in 10.6.2, with Mailman 2.1.12rc1, if I email to everyone, I get multiples. If I'm only a member of 2 of the "child" lists, I get two copies. If I'm a member of 4 of those children, I get 4 copies. Again, nodups is on. I'm really quite lost as to why this is happening. I did just move over the mailman directory from /var/mailman from the previous server to this one, and everything seems to work. The previous server and this one have the same IP and DNS info, so this shouldn't be an issue. =/ -Ryan Stasel From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 5 15:59:36 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:59:36 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate messages In-Reply-To: <8D3945A1-AD5E-4EB1-9CFA-DFE4F87248CA@uoregon.edu> Message-ID: Ryan Stasel wrote: > >I previously was running a series of lists on a Mac OS 10.4 Server, which I believe runs Mailman 2.1.3. And there were no real problems with duplicate messages. > >I have just now updated to 10.6.2, which runs Mailman 2.1.12rc1, and Dovecot (which I wouldn't think would impact anything). And yeah, already had to patch for the admindb error. > [...] > >Okay, then I have a list called "Everyone" that has the above lists as members. > >In 10.4, with Mailman 2.1.3, if someone emailed to "everyone" I only got one copy of that message. > >Now in 10.6.2, with Mailman 2.1.12rc1, if I email to everyone, I get multiples. If I'm only a member of 2 of the "child" lists, I get two copies. If I'm a member of 4 of those children, I get 4 copies. > >Again, nodups is on. I'm really quite lost as to why this is happening. This is the normal behavior for umbrella lists and has been since before 2.1.3. Possibilities include: 1) Apple had a patch in their 2.1.3 and removed it in their 2.1.11rc1 (this is only a conjecture - I don't know this). 2) something in the outgoing MTA to you path that used to deliver only 1 of multiple messages with duplicate message-ids changed and is no longer dropping dups. See the FAQ at for more on umbrella lists and workarounds including how to use regular_include_lists to make a 'better' umbrella list if you're not concerned about digest members of the sub-lists or processing bounces of posts sent to the "everyone" list. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rstasel at uoregon.edu Tue Jan 5 17:28:58 2010 From: rstasel at uoregon.edu (Ryan Stasel) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:28:58 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74C85AF2-7096-4F5A-B361-C9FC8225F6DE@uoregon.edu> On Jan 5, 2010, at 06:59 , Mark Sapiro wrote: > Ryan Stasel wrote: >> >> I previously was running a series of lists on a Mac OS 10.4 Server, which I believe runs Mailman 2.1.3. And there were no real problems with duplicate messages. >> >> I have just now updated to 10.6.2, which runs Mailman 2.1.12rc1, and Dovecot (which I wouldn't think would impact anything). And yeah, already had to patch for the admindb error. >> > [...] >> >> Okay, then I have a list called "Everyone" that has the above lists as members. >> >> In 10.4, with Mailman 2.1.3, if someone emailed to "everyone" I only got one copy of that message. >> >> Now in 10.6.2, with Mailman 2.1.12rc1, if I email to everyone, I get multiples. If I'm only a member of 2 of the "child" lists, I get two copies. If I'm a member of 4 of those children, I get 4 copies. >> >> Again, nodups is on. I'm really quite lost as to why this is happening. > > > This is the normal behavior for umbrella lists and has been since > before 2.1.3. Okay. > > > Possibilities include: > > 1) Apple had a patch in their 2.1.3 and removed it in their 2.1.11rc1 > (this is only a conjecture - I don't know this). Could be, but I'd have to doubt it. > > 2) something in the outgoing MTA to you path that used to deliver only > 1 of multiple messages with duplicate message-ids changed and is no > longer dropping dups. This looks like the case. It looks like Dovecot doesn't have any kind of duplicate suppression (at least, not that I can find (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=10775374&tstart=0)). Odd... might be able to do something with sieve, but.. > > See the FAQ at for more on umbrella lists > and workarounds including how to use regular_include_lists to make a > 'better' umbrella list if you're not concerned about digest members of > the sub-lists or processing bounces of posts sent to the "everyone" > list. I'm giving this a shot. For testing at least, I've just checked "no mail" for the child lists, and added them to the regular_include_lists, and we'll see what happens. Thanks very much! -Ryan Stasel > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Tue Jan 5 18:13:13 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:13:13 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate messages In-Reply-To: <74C85AF2-7096-4F5A-B361-C9FC8225F6DE@uoregon.edu> References: <74C85AF2-7096-4F5A-B361-C9FC8225F6DE@uoregon.edu> Message-ID: <20100105171313.GX3079@amyl.org.uk> On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 08:28:58AM -0800, Ryan Stasel wrote: > On Jan 5, 2010, at 06:59 , Mark Sapiro wrote: > > 2) something in the outgoing MTA to you path that used to deliver only > > 1 of multiple messages with duplicate message-ids changed and is no > > longer dropping dups. > > This looks like the case. It looks like Dovecot doesn't have any > kind of duplicate suppression (at least, not that I can find Dovecot is *not* an MTA. q.v. : "As an IMAP and POP3 server, Dovecot provides a way for mail-user agents [MUA] to access their mail. As such, Dovecot is NOT responsible for receiving mail from other servers. Dovecot presents mail already stored on the system to MUA's." or, indeed, (I thought the expression "Dovecot is not a[n] MTA" was *somewhere on the dovecot wiki, I can't seem to find it.) de-duplication should be handled by the MTA before passing it to an IMAP/POP server I'd go back to the MTA(s) (Exim, Postfix, Sendmail, &c) config, and see what's going on there. -- ``The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.'' (George Bernard Shaw) From rstasel at uoregon.edu Tue Jan 5 18:25:58 2010 From: rstasel at uoregon.edu (Ryan Stasel) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:25:58 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate messages In-Reply-To: <20100105171313.GX3079@amyl.org.uk> References: <74C85AF2-7096-4F5A-B361-C9FC8225F6DE@uoregon.edu> <20100105171313.GX3079@amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: <5B6E8FAA-10B0-4006-AB8C-7D677021AEEB@uoregon.edu> Adam, My bad, as I realized it wasn't an MTA, but was caught up reading something else when I was typing. However, this doesn't change the fact that previously, Cyrus did duplicate suppression, and Dovecot does not... which is why this worked when my imap/pop server was Cyrus, and now I get duplicates with Dovecot. I'm not sure postfix (the MTA) should be doing the duplicate suppression. But looking around online, it seems like there is a very large argument that goes something like: "Dovecot should do it" -> "It's not dovecot's problem, it's the maillist software" -> "MTA should do it" -> "Dovecot should do it". -> Rinse, Repeat. Oh, and some argue something like procmail/sieve should do it. Given all that, dovecot probably shouldn't do duplicate suppression. Needless, though, there's still seemingly no good answer for those that use Dovecot for imap/pop. BTW, this is the closest I can find: http://wiki.dovecot.org/MTA -Ryan Stasel On Jan 5, 2010, at 09:13 , Adam McGreggor wrote: > On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 08:28:58AM -0800, Ryan Stasel wrote: >> On Jan 5, 2010, at 06:59 , Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> 2) something in the outgoing MTA to you path that used to deliver only >>> 1 of multiple messages with duplicate message-ids changed and is no >>> longer dropping dups. >> >> This looks like the case. It looks like Dovecot doesn't have any >> kind of duplicate suppression (at least, not that I can find > > Dovecot is *not* an MTA. > > q.v. : > "As an IMAP and POP3 server, Dovecot provides a way for mail-user > agents [MUA] to access their mail. As such, Dovecot is NOT > responsible for receiving mail from other servers. Dovecot > presents mail already stored on the system to MUA's." > > or, indeed, > > > (I thought the expression "Dovecot is not a[n] MTA" was *somewhere on > the dovecot wiki, I can't seem to find it.) > > de-duplication should be handled by the MTA before passing it to an > IMAP/POP server > > I'd go back to the MTA(s) (Exim, Postfix, Sendmail, &c) config, and see > what's going on there. > > -- > ``The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one > persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress > depends on the unreasonable man.'' (George Bernard Shaw) From adamsca at gmail.com Wed Jan 6 01:31:13 2010 From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:31:13 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fellswoop? In-Reply-To: References: <27572d931001041634g2e52bf18nb4a97af4b0dcced8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <27572d931001051631q7fd2dfbcq28459e4375ebbec2@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Mark. I was just starting to construct a script, but yours is much more streamlined and works just fine. Thanks. Anyone else dealing with zeusmail.org ? On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Christopher Adams wrote: > > >A spammer has subscribed completely unique addresses from the same domain > to > >many of the mailing lists that we host. Is there a way to unsubscribe > >everything from this domain without writing a script that will do it? > > > If you mean 'automatically' as opposed to just manually going through > the lists and unsubscribing addresses, no. However, there are lots of > very simple scripts. Consider > > #!/bin/sh > for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`; do > bin/list_members $list | grep example.com | \ > bin/remove_members -f - -n -N $list > done > > where example.com is the domain. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > -- Christopher Adams adamsca at gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jan 6 03:29:35 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 20:29:35 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fellswoop? In-Reply-To: References: <27572d931001041634g2e52bf18nb4a97af4b0dcced8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: At 07:25 PM 1/4/2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: >Christopher Adams wrote: > > >A spammer has subscribed completely unique addresses from the same domain to > >many of the mailing lists that we host. Is there a way to unsubscribe > >everything from this domain without writing a script that will do it? Would that domain be "zeusmail.org." I have had a similar occurrence -- and don't know why -- have seen nothing bad from it, but got unique subscriptions to over 100 lists from a zeusmail.org domain. Since all my lists deal with a specialized topic (blindness) it is unlikely that 100 or more individuals were interested from the same domain -- but I have seen nothing bad happen yet -- just suspicious. Dave From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Wed Jan 6 03:42:32 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 02:42:32 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate messages In-Reply-To: <5B6E8FAA-10B0-4006-AB8C-7D677021AEEB@uoregon.edu> References: <74C85AF2-7096-4F5A-B361-C9FC8225F6DE@uoregon.edu> <20100105171313.GX3079@amyl.org.uk> <5B6E8FAA-10B0-4006-AB8C-7D677021AEEB@uoregon.edu> Message-ID: <20100106024232.GF3079@amyl.org.uk> On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 09:25:58AM -0800, Ryan Stasel wrote: > I'm not sure postfix (the MTA) should be doing the duplicate > suppression. But looking around online, it seems like there is a very > large argument that goes something like: "Dovecot should do it" -> > "It's not dovecot's problem, it's the maillist software" -> "MTA > should do it" -> "Dovecot should do it". -> Rinse, Repeat. Oh, and > some argue something like procmail/sieve should do it. Sounds about right; take your pick for how/where/if you want to do it ;) -- ``Sir Humphrey: The ship of state, Bernard, is the only ship that leaks from the top. From adamsca at gmail.com Wed Jan 6 06:59:44 2010 From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 21:59:44 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fell swoop? In-Reply-To: <27572d931001041634g2e52bf18nb4a97af4b0dcced8@mail.gmail.com> References: <27572d931001041634g2e52bf18nb4a97af4b0dcced8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <27572d931001052159k162769fek6f7372ee02e172eb@mail.gmail.com> We host over 600 lists and have about 250,000 subscribers. List owners have been asking me about how particular subscribers were able to subscribe to their lists. Well, in some cases, the list had open subscription. However, in almost all cases, the subscribers were from zeusmail.org. I did a scan of the subscribe logs and found over 800 subscribed addresses using zeusmail.org domain. Interestingly, all subscriptions come from the same IP address. Looking at the addresses, it is obvious that they are bogus, though they are interesting and rather humorous names that when all are put together, show a pattern of automated subscriptions. I checked the post logs and found that none from that domain had posted. So, I have done a couple of things. 1) blocked the ip at the firewall, 2) created a Postfix filter to not allow that domain to be able to send through the mail server, 3) added a robots.txt file to specifically block that domain, and 4) unsubscribed all zeusmail.org subscribers using the script Mark provided. It seems that zeusmail.org is a legitimate and non-blacklisted domain, but it just reeks of spammers. If there is a problem with the few that may be legitimate, they can easily be reinstated. On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Christopher Adams wrote: > A spammer has subscribed completely unique addresses from the same domain > to many of the mailing lists that we host. Is there a way to unsubscribe > everything from this domain without writing a script that will do it? > > -- > Christopher Adams > adamsca at gmail.com > -- Christopher Adams adamsca at gmail.com From rstasel at uoregon.edu Wed Jan 6 08:54:41 2010 From: rstasel at uoregon.edu (Ryan Stasel) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 23:54:41 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8453BB3D-A256-4A69-8F3C-503375680956@uoregon.edu> > See the FAQ at for more on umbrella lists > and workarounds including how to use regular_include_lists to make a > 'better' umbrella list if you're not concerned about digest members of > the sub-lists or processing bounces of posts sent to the "everyone" > list. Just wanted to respond and say, this (putting the child lists in regular_include_lists) worked perfectly. Thanks very much! -Ryan Stasel Systems Administrator School of Journalism and Communication University of Oregon From kowalskM at cs.moravian.edu Tue Jan 5 17:31:44 2010 From: kowalskM at cs.moravian.edu (myron) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:31:44 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman/listinfo page doesn't come up In-Reply-To: <814D2A06-7BC9-47D6-8EE0-3C4119FD26B9@nasa.gov> References: <814D2A06-7BC9-47D6-8EE0-3C4119FD26B9@nasa.gov> Message-ID: <94F5430C-A16A-4EF0-96F2-3F16622B89CE@cs.moravian.edu> My web sever crashed and I upgraded from Solaris 9 to Solaris 10. The version of python went from 2.3.4 to 2.4.4. Everything seemed to be working fine, that is, e-mails from the lists are being sent and received. Then I needed to approve a message to a list from aa member that needs approval. I don't know any other way to do that except through the GUI. That's when I found out, it won't come up. I found these errors in the apache logs (22)Invalid argument: exec of '/users/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo' failed Premature end of script headers: listinfo --myron ================================= Myron Kowalski MoCoSIN Network/Systems Administrator Moravian College myron at cs.moravian.edu From kowalskM at cs.moravian.edu Tue Jan 5 21:02:19 2010 From: kowalskM at cs.moravian.edu (myron) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:02:19 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman/listinfo page doesn't come up In-Reply-To: <94F5430C-A16A-4EF0-96F2-3F16622B89CE@cs.moravian.edu> References: <814D2A06-7BC9-47D6-8EE0-3C4119FD26B9@nasa.gov> <94F5430C-A16A-4EF0-96F2-3F16622B89CE@cs.moravian.edu> Message-ID: <720ABEC3-7731-4A2F-80B3-56A3CDB8DC3F@cs.moravian.edu> I think I see the problem. I neglected to even think that I'm going from a Ultra 5 (SPARC) to an X2100 (not SPARC). listinfo is a SPARC execuable. Guess I need to upgrade mailman. --myron ================================= Myron Kowalski MoCoSIN Network/Systems Administrator Moravian College myron at cs.moravian.edu On Jan 5, 2010, at 11:31 AM, myron wrote: > My web sever crashed and I upgraded from Solaris 9 to Solaris 10. > The version of python went from 2.3.4 to 2.4.4. > > Everything seemed to be working fine, that is, e-mails from the > lists are being > sent and received. Then I needed to approve a message to a list from > aa member > that needs approval. I don't know any other way to do that except > through the GUI. > > That's when I found out, it won't come up. > > I found these errors in the apache logs > > (22)Invalid argument: exec of '/users/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo' failed > Premature end of script headers: listinfo > > --myron > ================================= > Myron Kowalski > MoCoSIN Network/Systems Administrator > Moravian College > myron at cs.moravian.edu > From heather at lighthousewriters.org Tue Jan 5 21:43:13 2010 From: heather at lighthousewriters.org (Heather Peterson) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:43:13 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] help: lists set up and "succesfully subscribed" but noone is getting the email Message-ID: <0E6ED9D832894813ABAE542D98869295@HeatherPC> I set up a new list and mass subscribed my whole office (5 people), but none of us has received the welcome message that I included, and when I did a test email from outlook to the list, no one received it. Help! Thanks, Heather Heather Peterson | Director of Development Lighthouse Writers Workshop 2007 Mayor's Award for Excellence in the Arts 2123 Downing Street Denver, CO 80205 heather at lighthousewriters.org 303-297-1185 From christuspublishing at verizon.net Wed Jan 6 03:47:40 2010 From: christuspublishing at verizon.net (Christus Publishing) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:47:40 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] No e-mail left in the intended e-mail box Message-ID: To whom it may concern, We have set-up but the e-mails coming into the box are not received in the box or left in the e-mail box --- they are just forwarded to the intended recipients. What do we have to do to make sure the e-mails coming in stay in the box? Thanks, peter -- Peter J. Mongeau Founder and Publisher Christus Publishing, LLC 17 Tennyson Road Wellesley, MA 02481 (781) 424-9321 Email: christuspublishing at verizon.net Website: www.ChristusPublishing.com From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org Wed Jan 6 09:37:12 2010 From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 08:37:12 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] help: lists set up and "successfully subscribed" but no one is getting the email In-Reply-To: <0E6ED9D832894813ABAE542D98869295@HeatherPC> References: <0E6ED9D832894813ABAE542D98869295@HeatherPC> Message-ID: Heather Peterson wrote: >I set up a new list and mass subscribed my whole office (5 people), but none of us has received the welcome >message that I included, and when I did a test email from outlook to the list, no one received it. >Help! You need to include more information with this, such as: - The version of Mailman you are running. - The MTA you are running. - What steps you made to configure Mailman on the server, how did you integrate it with the MTA? I checked the headers of your mail, and it seems like you are possibly using a CPanel setup, if so, read the FAQ entry at http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+and+CPanel. Apologies if I was premature in that conclusion. Thanks. Andrew. From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org Wed Jan 6 09:41:23 2010 From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 08:41:23 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] No e-mail left in the intended e-mail box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Christus Publishing wrote: >To whom it may concern, >We have set-up but the e-mails coming into the box are not received in the >box or left in the e-mail box --- they are just forwarded to the intended >recipients. What do we have to do to make sure the e-mails coming in stay >in the box? Mailman is a list manager - that is, if you send to the list address, it will send the email out to all the subscribers on the list. It should archive a copy of the message (if the list configuration permits it to do so), and that should be accessible via the web GUI. So from the little information you gave us, it would seem that Mailman is possibly doing its job? Perhaps if you give us some more information about what you did to configure Mailman on your system, and what you believe it isn't doing, we can help you further. Thanks. Andrew. From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Wed Jan 6 13:34:48 2010 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:34:48 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removal of attachments causes problems Message-ID: <20100106123448.GT25646@charite.de> I have a list where the attachments are removed and stored on the mailman server itself. This works like a charm, but SOME image attachments of the type: image/pjpeg are stored as "attachment.bin" instead of "attachment.jpg" Why? Example below: -------------- n?chster Teil -------------- Ein Dateianhang mit Bin?rdaten wurde abgetrennt... Dateiname : Foto0136.jpg Dateityp : image/pjpeg Dateigr??e : 139142 bytes Beschreibung: Foto0136.jpg URL : -------------- n?chster Teil -------------- Ein Dateianhang mit Bin?rdaten wurde abgetrennt... Dateiname : Foto0092.jpg Dateityp : image/pjpeg Dateigr??e : 157510 bytes Beschreibung: Foto0092.jpg URL : -- Ralf Hildebrandt Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Wed Jan 6 14:18:30 2010 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 14:18:30 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removal of attachments causes problems In-Reply-To: <20100106123448.GT25646@charite.de> References: <20100106123448.GT25646@charite.de> Message-ID: <20100106131830.GA25646@charite.de> * Ralf Hildebrandt : > I have a list where the attachments are removed and stored on the > mailman server itself. > > This works like a charm, but SOME image attachments of the type: > > image/pjpeg > > are stored as "attachment.bin" instead of "attachment.jpg" > > Why? > Example below: adding "image/pjpeg" to /etc/mime.types fixed that: image/jpeg jpeg jpg jpe image/pjpeg jpeg jpg jpe -- Ralf Hildebrandt Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 6 14:51:07 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 05:51:07 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] help: lists set up and "successfullysubscribed" but no one is getting the email In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Andrew Hodgson wrote: >Heather Peterson wrote: > >>I set up a new list and mass subscribed my whole office (5 people), but none of us has received the welcome >message that I included, and when I did a test email from outlook to the list, no one received it. >>Help! > >You need to include more information with this, such as: > >- The version of Mailman you are running. >- The MTA you are running. >- What steps you made to configure Mailman on the server, how did you integrate it with the MTA? > >I checked the headers of your mail, and it seems like you are possibly using a CPanel setup, if so, read the FAQ entry at http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+and+CPanel. Apologies if I was premature in that conclusion. Also, see the FAQ at . If you are not the Mailman site administrator for your Mailman, you will have to contact whoever that is. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 6 15:05:26 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 06:05:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fellswoop? In-Reply-To: <27572d931001052159k162769fek6f7372ee02e172eb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Christopher Adams wrote: > > 3) added a robots.txt file to specifically block that >domain You are probably aware of this, but for those who may not be, legitimate search engines and such will honor your robots.txt file directives and meta tag (no)index,(no)follow directives in pages, but spammers and the like crawling your site for nefarious purposes will ignore them. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From barry at python.org Wed Jan 6 16:22:31 2010 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 10:22:31 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removal of attachments causes problems In-Reply-To: <20100106131830.GA25646@charite.de> References: <20100106123448.GT25646@charite.de> <20100106131830.GA25646@charite.de> Message-ID: <45C1BEB3-EABF-4C56-9B09-253392BAAB7E@python.org> On Jan 6, 2010, at 8:18 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote: > * Ralf Hildebrandt : >> I have a list where the attachments are removed and stored on the >> mailman server itself. >> >> This works like a charm, but SOME image attachments of the type: >> >> image/pjpeg >> >> are stored as "attachment.bin" instead of "attachment.jpg" >> >> Why? >> Example below: > > adding "image/pjpeg" to /etc/mime.types fixed that: > > image/jpeg jpeg jpg jpe > image/pjpeg jpeg jpg jpe This is because Mailman uses Python's mimetypes module to generate the file name, and I believe that consults /etc/mime.types where available. Since before you edit Python didn't know anythig about image/pjpeg, it assumed it was random binary data, hence the .bin suffix. -Barry From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Wed Jan 6 16:31:15 2010 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 16:31:15 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removal of attachments causes problems In-Reply-To: <45C1BEB3-EABF-4C56-9B09-253392BAAB7E@python.org> References: <20100106123448.GT25646@charite.de> <20100106131830.GA25646@charite.de> <45C1BEB3-EABF-4C56-9B09-253392BAAB7E@python.org> Message-ID: <20100106153115.GR25646@charite.de> * Barry Warsaw : > > adding "image/pjpeg" to /etc/mime.types fixed that: > > > > image/jpeg jpeg jpg jpe > > image/pjpeg jpeg jpg jpe > > This is because Mailman uses Python's mimetypes module to generate the > file name, and I believe that consults /etc/mime.types where available. > Since before you edit Python didn't know anythig about image/pjpeg, it > assumed it was random binary data, hence the .bin suffix. I'll file a bug report with Debian/Ubuntu -- Ralf Hildebrandt Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Wed Jan 6 16:45:18 2010 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 16:45:18 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removal of attachments causes problems In-Reply-To: <20100106153115.GR25646@charite.de> References: <20100106123448.GT25646@charite.de> <20100106131830.GA25646@charite.de> <45C1BEB3-EABF-4C56-9B09-253392BAAB7E@python.org> <20100106153115.GR25646@charite.de> Message-ID: <20100106154517.GT25646@charite.de> * Ralf Hildebrandt : > > > adding "image/pjpeg" to /etc/mime.types fixed that: > > > > > > image/jpeg jpeg jpg jpe > > > image/pjpeg jpeg jpg jpe > > > > This is because Mailman uses Python's mimetypes module to generate the > > file name, and I believe that consults /etc/mime.types where available. > > Since before you edit Python didn't know anythig about image/pjpeg, it > > assumed it was random binary data, hence the .bin suffix. > > I'll file a bug report with Debian/Ubuntu https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mime-support/+bug/503849 From donsmile68 at gmail.com Wed Jan 6 17:37:14 2010 From: donsmile68 at gmail.com (Marie-Yvette INGABIRE) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:37:14 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fellswoop? In-Reply-To: References: <27572d931001052159k162769fek6f7372ee02e172eb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8f295a581001060837k3b578780x552f8bd4ae3b5b5@mail.gmail.com> Bonjour, Je suis en train de configurer la cat?gorie une liste de distribution, pour avoir un archivage de message assez utile pour moi. Apr?s les tests que j'ai faits jusqu'? maintenant, les messages approuv?s sont archiv?s, tandis que ceux qui sont rejet?s, je ne trouve pas de trace. D'apr?s la cat?gorie de configuration "*Filtre de contenu*", option "*D?tails de filter action*" il y a diff?rents choix. Quand on choisi de "Pr?server" les messages supprim?s, ils expliquent que ces messages(rejet?s) sont sauv? dans une "*file*" d'atteinte du disque pour que l'administrateur de la liste puisse les voir ou les r?cup?rer s'il le veut ou les supprimer tout court. Mais cet option est disponible seulement apr?s activation par l'administrateur du site. Est-il possible d'activer cet option ? Merci Cordialement, Marie Yvette Leguojeu 2010/1/6 Mark Sapiro > Christopher Adams wrote: > > > > 3) added a robots.txt file to specifically block that > >domain > > > You are probably aware of this, but for those who may not be, > legitimate search engines and such will honor your robots.txt file > directives and meta tag (no)index,(no)follow directives in pages, but > spammers and the like crawling your site for nefarious purposes will > ignore them. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/donsmile68%40gmail.com > -- Marie Yvette Leguojeu From terri at zone12.com Wed Jan 6 21:48:51 2010 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:48:51 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fellswoop? In-Reply-To: <8f295a581001060837k3b578780x552f8bd4ae3b5b5@mail.gmail.com> References: <27572d931001052159k162769fek6f7372ee02e172eb@mail.gmail.com> <8f295a581001060837k3b578780x552f8bd4ae3b5b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B44F733.4010507@zone12.com> In case anyone is wondering what Marie-Yvette is asking, her message says that she's trying to make her mailing list archives more useful to her, and has noticed that approved messages are archived but rejected ones disappear. She's noticed that there is an option to save rejected messages to a file, but that option is not available unless activated by the administrator. So she's asking for that option to be activated. (Which obviously, we can't do, and I'm not sure who to tell her to contact.) Marie-Yvette INGABIRE wrote: > Bonjour, > > Je suis en train de configurer la cat?gorie une liste de distribution, pour > avoir un archivage de message assez utile pour moi. > > Apr?s les tests que j'ai faits jusqu'? maintenant, les messages approuv?s > sont archiv?s, tandis que ceux qui sont rejet?s, je ne trouve pas de trace. > D'apr?s la cat?gorie de configuration "*Filtre de contenu*", option "*D?tails > de filter action*" il y a diff?rents choix. Quand on choisi de "Pr?server" > les messages supprim?s, ils expliquent que ces messages(rejet?s) sont sauv? > dans une "*file*" d'atteinte du disque pour que l'administrateur de la liste > puisse les voir ou les r?cup?rer s'il le veut ou les supprimer tout court. > Mais cet option est disponible seulement apr?s activation par > l'administrateur du site. > > Est-il possible d'activer cet option ? > > Merci > > Cordialement, > > Marie Yvette Leguojeu > > 2010/1/6 Mark Sapiro > >> Christopher Adams wrote: >>> 3) added a robots.txt file to specifically block that >>> domain >> >> You are probably aware of this, but for those who may not be, >> legitimate search engines and such will honor your robots.txt file >> directives and meta tag (no)index,(no)follow directives in pages, but >> spammers and the like crawling your site for nefarious purposes will >> ignore them. >> >> -- >> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, >> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >> Searchable Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >> Unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/donsmile68%40gmail.com >> > > > From terri at zone12.com Wed Jan 6 22:06:47 2010 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 16:06:47 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fellswoop? In-Reply-To: <8f295a581001060837k3b578780x552f8bd4ae3b5b5@mail.gmail.com> References: <27572d931001052159k162769fek6f7372ee02e172eb@mail.gmail.com> <8f295a581001060837k3b578780x552f8bd4ae3b5b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B44FB67.60406@zone12.com> Marie-Yvette, (Apologies en advance: je n'ecrit pas tellement bien en fran?ais.) Oui, les messages reject?s ne vais pas etre au archive -- c'est normal. Si tu veut un record personel, vous pouvez t'envoy? un copie manuellement avec l'interface web chaque fois que vous rejet une message, ou vous pouvez utiliz? l'option pour pr?server au disque. Malheureusement, nous ne peuvons pas t'aider avec activer cet option: Vous avez contact? la liste mailman-users, une liste pour les personnes qui utilize le logiciel Mailman. Mais pour activer cet option, il faut que vous contact votre adminstrateur du site pour votre liste specifique. Je ne savent pas qui ce serait. Terri Marie-Yvette INGABIRE wrote: > Bonjour, > > Je suis en train de configurer la cat?gorie une liste de distribution, pour > avoir un archivage de message assez utile pour moi. > > Apr?s les tests que j'ai faits jusqu'? maintenant, les messages approuv?s > sont archiv?s, tandis que ceux qui sont rejet?s, je ne trouve pas de trace. > D'apr?s la cat?gorie de configuration "*Filtre de contenu*", option "*D?tails > de filter action*" il y a diff?rents choix. Quand on choisi de "Pr?server" > les messages supprim?s, ils expliquent que ces messages(rejet?s) sont sauv? > dans une "*file*" d'atteinte du disque pour que l'administrateur de la liste > puisse les voir ou les r?cup?rer s'il le veut ou les supprimer tout court. > Mais cet option est disponible seulement apr?s activation par > l'administrateur du site. > > Est-il possible d'activer cet option ? > > Merci > > Cordialement, > > Marie Yvette Leguojeu > > 2010/1/6 Mark Sapiro > >> Christopher Adams wrote: >>> 3) added a robots.txt file to specifically block that >>> domain >> >> You are probably aware of this, but for those who may not be, >> legitimate search engines and such will honor your robots.txt file >> directives and meta tag (no)index,(no)follow directives in pages, but >> spammers and the like crawling your site for nefarious purposes will >> ignore them. >> >> -- >> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, >> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >> Searchable Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >> Unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/donsmile68%40gmail.com >> > > > From donsmile68 at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 09:00:34 2010 From: donsmile68 at gmail.com (Marie-Yvette INGABIRE) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 09:00:34 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fellswoop? In-Reply-To: <4B44FB67.60406@zone12.com> References: <27572d931001052159k162769fek6f7372ee02e172eb@mail.gmail.com> <8f295a581001060837k3b578780x552f8bd4ae3b5b5@mail.gmail.com> <4B44FB67.60406@zone12.com> Message-ID: <8f295a581001070000o645dc4cdh5e01d366de595d5a@mail.gmail.com> Olda, Vous d?brouillez bien en fran?ais...j'ai compris ce que m'avais ?cris. je vais donc contacter mon administrateur pour voir ce qu'il peut faire. Merci Marie-Yvette Le 6 janvier 2010 22:06, Terri Oda a ?crit : > Marie-Yvette, > > (Apologies en advance: je n'ecrit pas tellement bien en fran?ais.) > > Oui, les messages reject?s ne vais pas etre au archive -- c'est normal. Si > tu veut un record personel, vous pouvez t'envoy? un copie manuellement avec > l'interface web chaque fois que vous rejet une message, ou vous pouvez > utiliz? l'option pour pr?server au disque. > > Malheureusement, nous ne peuvons pas t'aider avec activer cet option: Vous > avez contact? la liste mailman-users, une liste pour les personnes qui > utilize le logiciel Mailman. Mais pour activer cet option, il faut que vous > contact votre adminstrateur du site pour votre liste specifique. Je ne > savent pas qui ce serait. > > Terri > > > Marie-Yvette INGABIRE wrote: > >> Bonjour, >> >> Je suis en train de configurer la cat?gorie une liste de distribution, >> pour >> avoir un archivage de message assez utile pour moi. >> >> Apr?s les tests que j'ai faits jusqu'? maintenant, les messages approuv?s >> sont archiv?s, tandis que ceux qui sont rejet?s, je ne trouve pas de >> trace. >> D'apr?s la cat?gorie de configuration "*Filtre de contenu*", option >> "*D?tails >> de filter action*" il y a diff?rents choix. Quand on choisi de "Pr?server" >> les messages supprim?s, ils expliquent que ces messages(rejet?s) sont >> sauv? >> dans une "*file*" d'atteinte du disque pour que l'administrateur de la >> liste >> puisse les voir ou les r?cup?rer s'il le veut ou les supprimer tout court. >> Mais cet option est disponible seulement apr?s activation par >> l'administrateur du site. >> >> Est-il possible d'activer cet option ? >> >> Merci >> >> Cordialement, >> >> Marie Yvette Leguojeu >> >> 2010/1/6 Mark Sapiro >> >> Christopher Adams wrote: >>> >>>> 3) added a robots.txt file to specifically block that >>>> domain >>>> >>> >>> You are probably aware of this, but for those who may not be, >>> legitimate search engines and such will honor your robots.txt file >>> directives and meta tag (no)index,(no)follow directives in pages, but >>> spammers and the like crawling your site for nefarious purposes will >>> ignore them. >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, >>> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >>> Searchable Archives: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >>> Unsubscribe: >>> >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/donsmile68%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> >> >> -- Marie Yvette Leguojeu From johnf at net2000.com.au Thu Jan 7 14:09:55 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 00:09:55 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-( Message-ID: <0jmbk5pbm9r3ko4rgbgro8a5og9fdn221e@4ax.com> Okay, I think I have messed up somewhere. Using version 2.1.11.cp3 I have setup new member applications to require approval. To avoid just anyone joining the list. That works fine. I get an email to allow/disallow them as subscribers. The problem however is that even though they become "members" I need to "approve' each new email. How/where in the web interface do I set things up to block anyone subscribing themselves without my approval BUT once becoming a member to post without needing any further authorisation from me as administrator. Can someone here help me with this please ? Regards, John. From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Thu Jan 7 14:16:30 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:16:30 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-( In-Reply-To: <0jmbk5pbm9r3ko4rgbgro8a5og9fdn221e@4ax.com> References: <0jmbk5pbm9r3ko4rgbgro8a5og9fdn221e@4ax.com> Message-ID: <20100107131630.GR3079@amyl.org.uk> On Fri, Jan 08, 2010 at 12:09:55AM +1100, John Fitzsimons wrote: > How/where in the web interface do I set things up to block anyone > subscribing themselves without my approval BUT once becoming > a member to post without needing any further authorisation from me > as administrator. > > Can someone here help me with this please ? On 'normal' Mailman, the option is "default_member_moderation", (Privacy -> Sender). I don't know if CPanel have futzed with that, never having used their bastardization. -- An Englishman thinks that 100 miles is a long way; an American thinks that 100 years is a long time. From jeff at jeffweinberger.com Thu Jan 7 07:02:13 2010 From: jeff at jeffweinberger.com (Jeff Weinberger) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 22:02:13 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] export of suscriber list? Message-ID: I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction for what I hope is a simple issue.... I need to export the list of e-mails subscribed to one list. Is there a way to do that? (text file, database form, etc. are all ok...) Any help is appreciated!! Thank you!! ----------------------------------- Jeff Weinberger http://disruptivemarketing.jeffweinberger.com From alan.mckay at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 15:14:18 2010 From: alan.mckay at gmail.com (Alan McKay) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 09:14:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] export of suscriber list? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <844129e81001070614y7ddd5208l4311928068693653@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, that is pretty easy. In the ~mailman/bin directory there are a number of commands like "list_members" (the one you are looking for). On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 1:02 AM, Jeff Weinberger wrote: > I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction for what I hope is a > simple issue.... > > I need to export the list of e-mails subscribed to one list. Is there a way > to do that? (text file, database form, etc. are all ok...) > -- ?Don't eat anything you've ever seen advertised on TV? - Michael Pollan, author of "In Defense of Food" From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 7 15:28:12 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 06:28:12 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] export of suscriber list? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jeff Weinberger wrote: > >I need to export the list of e-mails subscribed to one list. Is there a way >to do that? (text file, database form, etc. are all ok...) See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Thu Jan 7 19:03:54 2010 From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 13:03:54 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Oddity with list_members Message-ID: <4B45DBBA.28806.2DF81545@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> I'm having some trouble with list_members. I do a list and I see several entries that don't show up in the GUI "Membership List" listings. And the other way around: I got a complaint from a former list member that they were still receiving messages, but list_members did *NOT* list them... but going into the GUI the member was there [and I unsubbed him from the gui]. That got me to checking and I discovered thatAnother odd anomaly: the list_members list is almost entirely in alphabetical order by email addr... *except* for one address that ought to have been with the addrs and came at the very end of the list. Also, the gui claims there are 326 members on the list, but list_members gives me 328. The member that didn't show up on the list_members list (but was actually subscribed) showed up as just an ordinary list member on the GUI membership list [no "nomail" or anything like that]. And I can't tell anything about members that show up on list_mem but not on the gui -- I'm not exactly sure if they're on the list or not. [I'll have to dig through the sendmail logs to see if they're actually receiving mailings or not]. Is this kind of thing indicative of something wrong in one of mailman's DBs or something like that? Should I be taking some kind of repair/fix steps? Thanks... /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:bernie at fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA --> Too many people, too few sheep <-- From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 7 19:33:45 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:33:45 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Oddity with list_members In-Reply-To: <4B45DBBA.28806.2DF81545@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> Message-ID: Bernie Cosell wrote: >I'm having some trouble with list_members. I do a list and I see several >entries that don't show up in the GUI "Membership List" listings. And >the other way around: Are you absolutely certain that you aren't looking at two different lists? >I got a complaint from a former list member that >they were still receiving messages, but list_members did *NOT* list >them... but going into the GUI the member was there [and I unsubbed him >from the gui]. That got me to checking and I discovered thatAnother odd >anomaly: the list_members list is almost entirely in alphabetical order >by email addr... *except* for one address that ought to have been with >the addrs and came at the very end of the list. The output from bin/list_members is in two groups: first the regular members in alpha order followed by the digest members in alpha order. Possibly the addrs is the only digest member or possibly there is a transparent character preceeding the 's'. >Also, the gui >claims there are 326 members on the list, but list_members gives me 328. What MM version is this? Prior to 2.1.12rc1 there was a bug that would not list members in the admin Membership List if their address began with a non letter/digit. >The member that didn't show up on the list_members list (but was actually >subscribed) showed up as just an ordinary list member on the GUI >membership list [no "nomail" or anything like that]. And I can't tell >anything about members that show up on list_mem but not on the gui -- I'm >not exactly sure if they're on the list or not. [I'll have to dig >through the sendmail logs to see if they're actually receiving mailings >or not]. > >Is this kind of thing indicative of something wrong in one of mailman's >DBs or something like that? Should I be taking some kind of repair/fix >steps? Thanks... If there are addresses that appear on bin/list_members and not on the list admin Membership List (not explained by the above bug) and vice versa, I think there must be two lists. E.g., perhaps a test, demo, backup or prior version of the list on a different server or in a different path on the same server, and you are accessing one via the web and another via bin/list_members. Check your web server configuration and ensure that Mailman's ScriptAlias points to the same prefix directory that contains the bin/ directory you're using. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jeff at jeffweinberger.com Thu Jan 7 19:40:33 2010 From: jeff at jeffweinberger.com (Jeff Weinberger) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:40:33 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] export of suscriber list? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6:28 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Jeff Weinberger wrote: > > > >I need to export the list of e-mails subscribed to one list. Is there a > way > >to do that? (text file, database form, etc. are all ok...) > > > See the FAQ at . > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > Mark (and Alan for your earlier response) -Thank you! Appreciate you pointing out the obvious that I missed :) and appreciate your help! From johnf at net2000.com.au Thu Jan 7 23:21:41 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 09:21:41 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-( In-Reply-To: <20100107131630.GR3079@amyl.org.uk> References: <0jmbk5pbm9r3ko4rgbgro8a5og9fdn221e@4ax.com> <20100107131630.GR3079@amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:16:30 +0000, Adam McGreggor wrote: >On Fri, Jan 08, 2010 at 12:09:55AM +1100, John Fitzsimons wrote: >> How/where in the web interface do I set things up to block anyone >> subscribing themselves without my approval BUT once becoming >> a member to post without needing any further authorisation from me >> as administrator. >> Can someone here help me with this please ? >On 'normal' Mailman, the option is "default_member_moderation", >(Privacy -> Sender). Thank you. >I don't know if CPanel have futzed with that, never having used their >bastardization. Well, not everyone is a unix expert. I need to use CPanel. I have list membership set at "Require approval" but once someone has become a subscriber I want their emails to go to the list without my getting an email that says... As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the following mailing list posting: List: xxxx From: xxxxxx Subject: xxxxxxx Reason: Posting to a moderated newsgroup At your convenience, visit:..... Does anyone here know how to let subscribers post without getting that notice please ? Using CPanel. I am beginning to think that my setting the list to "moderated" means that even subscribers are moderated. That isn't what I wanted. If I set the list to un-moderated then will non members be able to post ? If non members will NOT be able to post then where on CPanel can I change things to un-moderated please ? Regards, John. From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Fri Jan 8 00:08:59 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 01:08:59 +0200 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-( In-Reply-To: References: <0jmbk5pbm9r3ko4rgbgro8a5og9fdn221e@4ax.com> <20100107131630.GR3079@amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jan 2010, John Fitzsimons wrote: >> I don't know if CPanel have futzed with that, never having used their >> bastardization. > > Well, not everyone is a unix expert. I need to use CPanel. The point is that CPanel include their own version of Mailman with changes that they've not released back to the community, and therefore only other CPanel users can really comment authoritatively on CPanel Mailman installations as regular users don't know what CPanel have changed. > I have list membership set at "Require approval" but once someone has > become a subscriber I want their emails to go to the list without my > getting an email that says... > > As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the > following mailing list posting: > > List: xxxx > From: xxxxxx > Subject: xxxxxxx > Reason: Posting to a moderated newsgroup > > At your convenience, visit:..... > > Does anyone here know how to let subscribers post without getting that > notice please ? Using CPanel. Maybe it's the same way as in the regular version (i.e. Privacy Options/Sender Filters/Default Member Moderation. > I am beginning to think that my setting the list to "moderated" means > that even subscribers are moderated. That isn't what I wanted. Correct, that's what it means. > If I set the list to un-moderated then will non members be able to > post ? No. This is influenced by the Default Non-member Action item on the same page (Privacy/Sender Filters). > If non members will NOT be able to post then where on > CPanel can I change things to un-moderated please ? I'd check the above first. The other place it could be is if you've activated Emergency List Moderation which I think is on the General Options page. HTH, Geoff. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 8 00:17:52 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:17:52 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: >On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:16:30 +0000, Adam McGreggor wrote: > >>On Fri, Jan 08, 2010 at 12:09:55AM +1100, John Fitzsimons wrote: > >>> How/where in the web interface do I set things up to block anyone >>> subscribing themselves without my approval BUT once becoming >>> a member to post without needing any further authorisation from me >>> as administrator. > >>> Can someone here help me with this please ? > >>On 'normal' Mailman, the option is "default_member_moderation", >>(Privacy -> Sender). > >Thank you. [...] >I have list membership set at "Require approval" but once someone has >become a subscriber I want their emails to go to the list without my >getting an email that says... > >As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the >following mailing list posting: > > List: xxxx > From: xxxxxx > Subject: xxxxxxx > Reason: Posting to a moderated newsgroup > >At your convenience, visit:..... > >Does anyone here know how to let subscribers post without getting that >notice please ? Using CPanel. As Adam said, go to the list's web admin interface Privacy options... -> Sender filters and set default_member_moderation to No so future new members won't be moderated by default. Then go to Membership Management -> Membership List, scroll down to Additional Member Tasks and under "Set everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently visible" select Off and press Set These changes have nothing to do with subscribe_policy for which you apparently do want require approval. It appears though that the reason that your list's posts are held is "Posting to a moderated newsgroup". This is because on the admin Mail<->News gateways page, you have gateway_to_news = Yes and news_moderation set to Moderated. Is this what you mean by "moderated" below? >I am beginning to think that my setting the list to "moderated" means >that even subscribers are moderated. That isn't what I wanted. If this is the setting on the Mail<->News gateways page, those all have to do with gatewaying to/from a usenet group via NNTP. I suspect you are not really doing that in which case both gateway_to_news and gateway_to_mail should be set to No. >If I set the list to un-moderated then will non members be able to >post ? If non members will NOT be able to post then where on >CPanel can I change things to un-moderated please ? Non-member posting is controlled by Privacy options... -> Sender filters *_these_nonmembers and generic_nonmember_action. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jrc at clshost.com Fri Jan 8 00:00:12 2010 From: jrc at clshost.com (J.R. Constance) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 18:00:12 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-( In-Reply-To: References: <0jmbk5pbm9r3ko4rgbgro8a5og9fdn221e@4ax.com> <20100107131630.GR3079@amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: On Jan 7, 2010, at 5:21 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote: > Well, not everyone is a unix expert. I need to use CPanel. As do I. I have over 30 Mailman lists running on several different domains using CPanel. > > I have list membership set at "Require approval" but once someone has > become a subscriber I want their emails to go to the list without my > getting an email that says... You have the correct setting for this. > > As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the > following mailing list posting: > > List: xxxx > From: xxxxxx > Subject: xxxxxxx > Reason: Posting to a moderated newsgroup > > At your convenience, visit:..... > > Does anyone here know how to let subscribers post without getting that > notice please ? Using CPanel. > > I am beginning to think that my setting the list to "moderated" means > that even subscribers are moderated. That isn't what I wanted. But that's what Moderation does. > > If I set the list to un-moderated then will non members be able to > post ? If non members will NOT be able to post then where on > CPanel can I change things to un-moderated please ? Individuals who are not subscribed to the list will not be able to post to the list without approval. For anyone who is not a current subscriber you (or the moderator) will receive a Request for approval like the one you listed above, and you can take appropriate action. Here's what you need to do. 1. Under Privacy Options -> Sender Filters , where it says: By default, should new list member postings be moderated? Change the setting back to "No", then click on the "Submit Your Changes" button at the bottom of the page. 2. Go to Membership Management. If you look at the column that says "mod", all of the boxes are probably checked. So, at the bottom of the page, where it says: Set everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently visible Change that to "Off" and then click "Set" Alternatively, you could leave Privacy Options in place, so that every new subscriber is automatically set to be moderated, and then you can do step 2 to remove the moderation later. Hope that helps. J.R. J.R. Constance Rodric Consulting, LLC jrc at rodricon.com http://www.clinical-laboratory-consulting.com Phone: 720.339.3646 From johnf at net2000.com.au Fri Jan 8 00:54:09 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:54:09 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-( In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:17:52 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: < snip > >As Adam said, go to the list's web admin interface Privacy options... >-> Sender filters and set default_member_moderation to No so future >new members won't be moderated by default. Done. >Then go to Membership Management -> Membership List, scroll down to >Additional Member Tasks and under "Set everyone's moderation bit, >including those members not currently visible" select Off and press Set >These changes have nothing to do with subscribe_policy for which you >apparently do want require approval. Yes, thank you for making things clearer. >It appears though that the reason that your list's posts are held is >"Posting to a moderated newsgroup". This is because on the admin >Mail<->News gateways page, you have gateway_to_news = Yes and >news_moderation set to Moderated. Is this what you mean by "moderated" >below? Actually I thought that "moderated" meant that one had to be an "approved" subscriber. >>I am beginning to think that my setting the list to "moderated" means >>that even subscribers are moderated. That isn't what I wanted. >If this is the setting on the Mail<->News gateways page, those all have >to do with gatewaying to/from a usenet group via NNTP. I suspect you >are not really doing that in which case both gateway_to_news and >gateway_to_mail should be set to No. Well, actually I am porting to/from a news server. Gmane. < snip > I had set "The moderation policy of the newsgroup" to "moderated". Thank you. This may be where my problem is. If I now set that to "none" then do you, or anyone else here, know whether posts will go to the newsgroup by non Mailman members ? Thanks again everyone. You have all been a big help to make things clearer for me. Regards, John. From johnf at net2000.com.au Fri Jan 8 00:54:08 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:54:08 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-( In-Reply-To: References: <0jmbk5pbm9r3ko4rgbgro8a5og9fdn221e@4ax.com> <20100107131630.GR3079@amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 01:08:59 +0200 (IST), Geoff Shang wrote: >On Fri, 8 Jan 2010, John Fitzsimons wrote: >> Well, not everyone is a unix expert. I need to use CPanel. >The point is that CPanel include their own version of Mailman with changes >that they've not released back to the community, and therefore only other >CPanel users can really comment authoritatively on CPanel Mailman >installations as regular users don't know what CPanel have changed. Well, I thought by quoting version 2.1.11.cp3 that that meant CPanel 3 ? That people here may be familiar with it. < snip > >> If I set the list to un-moderated then will non members be able to >> post ? >No. This is influenced by the Default Non-member Action item on the same >page (Privacy/Sender Filters). Thanks, that's a relief. < snip > Thank you. :-) Regards, John. From johnf at net2000.com.au Fri Jan 8 00:54:08 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:54:08 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-( In-Reply-To: References: <0jmbk5pbm9r3ko4rgbgro8a5og9fdn221e@4ax.com> <20100107131630.GR3079@amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 18:00:12 -0500, J.R. Constance wrote: >On Jan 7, 2010, at 5:21 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote: < snip > >> I have list membership set at "Require approval" but once someone has >> become a subscriber I want their emails to go to the list without my >> getting an email that says... >You have the correct setting for this. Thank you. < snip > >Here's what you need to do. < snip > Thank you. Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 8 01:27:39 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 16:27:39 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: > >Well, actually I am porting to/from a news server. Gmane. > >< snip > > >I had set "The moderation policy of the newsgroup" to "moderated". >Thank you. This may be where my problem is. If I now set that to >"none" then do you, or anyone else here, know whether posts will >go to the newsgroup by non Mailman members ? No post will be gated to the newsgroup from the list that is not accepted by the list. Please read the page linked from Mail<->News gateways -> (Details for news_moderation) for a fuller description of these settings. Among other things you will see If the newsgroup is moderated, you can set this mailing list up to be the moderation address for the newsgroup. By selecting Moderated, an additional posting hold will be placed in the approval process. All messages posted to the mailing list will have to be approved before being sent on to the newsgroup, or to the mailing list membership. This is apparently what you set, but not what you want. I think you want None which means that any post accepted by the list will also be forwarded to the newsgroup, but without adding an Approved: header. In any event, non-member posts to the list will be dealt with according to *_these_nonmembers and generic_nonmember_action, and if they aren't accepted for the list, they will not be forwarded to the newsgroup. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Fri Jan 8 01:44:31 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 11:44:31 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-( In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 16:27:39 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: >>Well, actually I am porting to/from a news server. Gmane. >>< snip > >>I had set "The moderation policy of the newsgroup" to "moderated". >>Thank you. This may be where my problem is. If I now set that to >>"none" then do you, or anyone else here, know whether posts will >>go to the newsgroup by non Mailman members ? >No post will be gated to the newsgroup from the list that is not >accepted by the list. Okay, that is the list > newsgroup direction. >Please read the page linked from Mail<->News gateways -> (Details for >news_moderation) for a fuller description of these settings. Among >other things you will see > If the newsgroup is moderated, you can set this mailing list up to be > the moderation address for the newsgroup. By selecting Moderated, an > additional posting hold will be placed in the approval process. All > messages posted to the mailing list will have to be approved before > being sent on to the newsgroup, or to the mailing list membership. >This is apparently what you set, but not what you want. I think you >want None which means that any post accepted by the list will also be >forwarded to the newsgroup, but without adding an Approved: header. Yes, that direction is what I want. >In any event, non-member posts to the list will be dealt with according >to *_these_nonmembers and generic_nonmember_action, and if they aren't >accepted for the list, they will not be forwarded to the newsgroup. My question however was in regards to the other direction. I was hoping someone here may know how things work the other way. Would someone who wasn't a member of the list be able to post via Gmane NNTP ? If they could then the news post would presumably be forwarded to the list ? Avoiding "authentication" barriers. Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 8 02:07:23 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 17:07:23 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: > >My question however was in regards to the other direction. I was >hoping someone here may know how things work the other way. > >Would someone who wasn't a member of the list be able to post via >Gmane NNTP ? If they could then the news post would presumably >be forwarded to the list ? Avoiding "authentication" barriers. Yes. If gateway_to_mail is Yes (and cron/gate_news is being run) all new posts to the newsgroup that didn't originate from the Mailman list will be posted to the list. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brian at emwd.com Fri Jan 8 02:18:16 2010 From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 20:18:16 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Index Page Blank Message-ID: <054c01ca9000$766487a0$632d96e0$@com> Hello MM Community I was notified by a client that his archives for his list was not showing up. When I investigated, I found out all of his archive index pages are blank, i.e. file size 0. He has 13 lists. The server he is on is a shared hosting server with other mailman lists (cpanel environment). However this issue did not affect any other clients. What in the world could have zeroed out his archive index page (index.html) on all of his lists? Any ideas? Needless to say I am quite concerned and confused. Thanks. Regards, Brian Carpenter EMWD.com -------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.emwd.com/ Curious comments from a web hosting techie From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 8 03:45:11 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 18:45:11 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Index Page Blank In-Reply-To: <054c01ca9000$766487a0$632d96e0$@com> Message-ID: Brian Carpenter wrote: > >I was notified by a client that his archives for his list was not showing >up. When I investigated, I found out all of his archive index pages are >blank, i.e. file size 0. He has 13 lists. The server he is on is a shared >hosting server with other mailman lists (cpanel environment). However this >issue did not affect any other clients. What in the world could have zeroed >out his archive index page (index.html) on all of his lists? Any ideas? Is it only the archives/private/LISTNAME/index.html files that are null? Is everything else in the archives/private/LISTNAME/ directories as it should be including the files in archives/private/LISTNAME/database? The archives/private/LISTNAME/index.html file is rewritten with every post and never with no data unless the archtoc.html (or archtocnombox.html) and arctocentry.html templates are empty. Is there anything in Mailman's error log? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brian at emwd.com Fri Jan 8 04:29:14 2010 From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 22:29:14 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Index Page Blank In-Reply-To: References: <054c01ca9000$766487a0$632d96e0$@com> Message-ID: <067e01ca9012$c1a70500$44f50f00$@com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:45 PM > To: Brian Carpenter; mailman-users at python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives Index Page Blank > > Brian Carpenter wrote: > > > >I was notified by a client that his archives for his list was not > showing > >up. When I investigated, I found out all of his archive index pages > are > >blank, i.e. file size 0. He has 13 lists. The server he is on is a > shared > >hosting server with other mailman lists (cpanel environment). However > this > >issue did not affect any other clients. What in the world could have > zeroed > >out his archive index page (index.html) on all of his lists? Any > ideas? > > > Is it only the archives/private/LISTNAME/index.html files that are > null? Is everything else in the archives/private/LISTNAME/ directories > as it should be including the files in > archives/private/LISTNAME/database? > > The archives/private/LISTNAME/index.html file is rewritten with every > post and never with no data unless the archtoc.html (or > archtocnombox.html) and arctocentry.html templates are empty. > > Is there anything in Mailman's error log? > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan Hi Mark, I think I figured out what the problem is. cPanel in its latest release is now calculating the disk space used by an account's mailing list(s). The error message I found regarding this particular user was "disk quoted exceeded" messages. The problem here is this particular user is only using 60% of his allotted disk space. That seems to be a problem with cPanel's implementation of this new feature. What seems to be a bug in mailman however is the nulling out of the index.html page when this particular error occurs. Here is the complete error message in the error log: Jan 07 17:19:06 2010 (7341) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in ArchiveMail h.processUnixMailbox(f) File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 580, in processUnixMailbox self.add_article(a) File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 621, in add_article filename)) File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1119, in write_article f.close() IOError: [Errno 122] Disk quota exceeded Brian EMWD.com From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 8 06:28:13 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 21:28:13 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Index Page Blank In-Reply-To: <067e01ca9012$c1a70500$44f50f00$@com> Message-ID: Brian Carpenter wrote: > >I think I figured out what the problem is. cPanel in its latest release is >now calculating the disk space used by an account's mailing list(s). The >error message I found regarding this particular user was "disk quoted >exceeded" messages. The problem here is this particular user is only using >60% of his allotted disk space. That seems to be a problem with cPanel's >implementation of this new feature. > >What seems to be a bug in mailman however is the nulling out of the >index.html page when this particular error occurs. Here is the complete >error message in the error log: Mailman can't control this. Mailman opens the file for output in order to write the new index. This sets the file size to zero. It then writes the file which writes are buffered and finally closes the file resulting in a physical write attempt to the disk which is denied by the OS for Disk quota exceeded which leaves the file at zero size. If there is a bug anywhere (besides the obvious one of wrongly thinking the user is over quota), it is the OS allowing the file to be truncated when it thinks the user is over quota and therefore won't allow the actual write. I.e. the OS could disallow the open for output when it thinks the user is over quota, but Mailman doesn't know anything about this. It just does what any process would do to open a file for output and write its new contents until the OS shoots it down. >Jan 07 17:19:06 2010 (7341) Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line >120, in _oneloop > self._onefile(msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line >191, in _onefile > keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", >line 73, in _dispose > mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) > File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", >line 216, in ArchiveMail > h.processUnixMailbox(f) > File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", >line 580, in processUnixMailbox > self.add_article(a) > File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", >line 621, in add_article > filename)) > File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", >line 1119, in write_article > f.close() >IOError: [Errno 122] Disk quota exceeded Actually, this traceback is not from truncating the TOC. This is a failure to write the article html file. This time it didn't get as far as trying to update the TOC. It appears that a prior attempt succeeded in writing an article, but writing the TOC failed, but that seems really strange since I would think that could happen at most once to one TOC before article writes started failing as above. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From joemailgroups at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 06:50:13 2010 From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (JRC Groups) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:50:13 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OS XSnowLeopard. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 1/4/10 9:11 AM, "Geoff Shang" wrote: > On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, JRC Groups wrote: > >> This is indeed the case. All subscribers will either belong to one list or >> the other. Never both. One of the issues I noticed when reading the post has >> to do with replies from subscribers. Considering subscribers are either >> receiving mail from Sublist1 or Sublist2 but post are mailed to >> UmbrellaList1 what happens when a subscriber replies to a post ? Since he >> received it from (let's say) Sublist1 wouldn't the reply be sent back to the >> same list ? How can this be resolved in setting up this system ? > > Set each sublist to reply to a specific address and fill in your posting > address there. This is in the General settings. > > Cheers, > Geoff. This is what I needed to know. It seems this will be simple enough to set-up. Thanks, Geoff. Joe > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/joemailgroups%40gmail.com From joemailgroups at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 06:56:46 2010 From: joemailgroups at gmail.com (JRC Groups) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:56:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OSXSnowLeopard. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Mark. On 1/4/10 9:38 AM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: > But you probably don't need to mung the reply-to, at least for the > sublists. Assuming no reply-to munging at all, the original post will > always be From: the OP and To: the umbrella. Thus reply will go to the > OP and reply-all to the OP and the umbrella, just as for a > non-umbrella case. Shouldn't it be the other way around ? Most lists I either belong or have belonged to work the opposite way. Reply always sends to the list and Reply All goes to the list and OP. > If you want to mung a reply-to, munging the umbrella to reply-to the > umbrella should suffice as that reply-to will pass through the > sublists unchanged. > > The only place you have a problem is if the member's MUA offers list > reply based on the List-Post: header. This then may go to that > member's sublist only. The answer to this is to set > include_rfc2369_headers or at least include_list_post_header to No on > the sublists. Since I have no way of knowing these details for every subscriber (whether the subscriber's MUA offers reply based on the List-Post: header as you stated) would it cause any problems to make it standard procedure to set those commands to no as you suggested above ? Thank you for your help. Joe From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 8 07:37:34 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 22:37:34 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists inOSXSnowLeopard. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: JRC Groups wrote: > >On 1/4/10 9:38 AM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: > >> But you probably don't need to mung the reply-to, at least for the >> sublists. Assuming no reply-to munging at all, the original post will >> always be From: the OP and To: the umbrella. Thus reply will go to the >> OP and reply-all to the OP and the umbrella, just as for a >> non-umbrella case. > >Shouldn't it be the other way around ? Most lists I either belong or have >belonged to work the opposite way. Reply always sends to the list and Reply >All goes to the list and OP. This is a very old argument with hardened opinions on both sides. See and . All I will say here is that if you put a Reply-To: in the delivered posts, it makes it difficult to reply to the poster since the post is From: and To: with Reply-To: . For most MUAs (and per RFCs) Reply-To: overrides From: for purposes of replying so 'reply' goes to the list and 'reply all' goes to the list (Reply-To:) and the list (To:). >> If you want to mung a reply-to, munging the umbrella to reply-to the >> umbrella should suffice as that reply-to will pass through the >> sublists unchanged. >> >> The only place you have a problem is if the member's MUA offers list >> reply based on the List-Post: header. This then may go to that >> member's sublist only. The answer to this is to set >> include_rfc2369_headers or at least include_list_post_header to No on >> the sublists. > >Since I have no way of knowing these details for every subscriber (whether >the subscriber's MUA offers reply based on the List-Post: header as you >stated) would it cause any problems to make it standard procedure to set >those commands to no as you suggested above ? Mailman is somewhat deficient in this area as far as being fully RFC 2369 compliant when sublists are involved. Strictly speaking, the List-Unsubscribe header in a received post should be from the sub list that the recipient is subscribed to, but in your case, the List-Post: header should be for the parent. The closest you can come is to set include_rfc2369_headers and include_list_post_header both to Yes on the parent (you can't include List-Post: without including the others) and set include_list_post_header to No on the children. Whether to set include_rfc2369_headers to Yes or to No on the children is a toss-up. Yes will include both list's headers which could be confusing, but No will include only the parent's headers which may not be the preferable ones. As far as causing problems, the only significant problem is that some MUA that offers an unsubscribe based on the List-Unsubscribe: header may go to the parent list instead of the relevant child. The avoidance is to set include_rfc2369_headers to No on all the lists. You will be omitting some desirable information, but at least there won't be any wrong information. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rb211 at tds.net Thu Jan 7 22:46:52 2010 From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 16:46:52 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-( In-Reply-To: <0jmbk5pbm9r3ko4rgbgro8a5og9fdn221e@4ax.com> References: <0jmbk5pbm9r3ko4rgbgro8a5og9fdn221e@4ax.com> Message-ID: <201001071646.52562.rb211@tds.net> On Thursday 07 January 2010, John Fitzsimons wrote: > Okay, I think I have messed up somewhere. Using version 2.1.11.cp3 > I have setup new member applications to require approval. To avoid > just anyone joining the list. > > That works fine. I get an email to allow/disallow them as subscribers. > The problem however is that even though they become "members" > I need to "approve' each new email. > > How/where in the web interface do I set things up to block anyone > subscribing themselves without my approval BUT once becoming > a member to post without needing any further authorisation from me > as administrator. With 2.1.12.cp3 it is Membership Management, Membership List, Set everyone's moderation bit... Set to Off And as Adam previously posted, Privacy options, What steps are required for subscription? Set to Require approval -- William From donsmile68 at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 10:04:24 2010 From: donsmile68 at gmail.com (Marie-Yvette INGABIRE) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:04:24 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fellswoop? In-Reply-To: <8f295a581001070000o645dc4cdh5e01d366de595d5a@mail.gmail.com> References: <27572d931001052159k162769fek6f7372ee02e172eb@mail.gmail.com> <8f295a581001060837k3b578780x552f8bd4ae3b5b5@mail.gmail.com> <4B44FB67.60406@zone12.com> <8f295a581001070000o645dc4cdh5e01d366de595d5a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8f295a581001080104h5b3bad43v80637d6961161c28@mail.gmail.com> Bonojour, J'ai cr?? une liste de distribution avec ses abonn?s et un mod?rateur. Parmi les abonn?es se trouve d'autres listes de distribution, X, Y,Z. Comment faire pour que, une fois que le mod?rateur approuve un message, les abonn?es des liste de distribution X,Y,Z re?oivent tout de suite le message approuv? sans que les mod?rateur de ces listes r? approuve encore le message envoy?? Ces listes de distribution sont des abonn?es qui contiennent d'autres abonn?es. Merci Bien ? vous Marie Yvette Leguojeu Le 7 janvier 2010 09:00, Marie-Yvette INGABIRE a ?crit : > Olda, > > Vous d?brouillez bien en fran?ais...j'ai compris ce que m'avais ?cris. je > vais donc contacter mon administrateur pour voir ce qu'il peut faire. > > Merci > > Marie-Yvette > > Le 6 janvier 2010 22:06, Terri Oda a ?crit : > > Marie-Yvette, >> >> (Apologies en advance: je n'ecrit pas tellement bien en fran?ais.) >> >> Oui, les messages reject?s ne vais pas etre au archive -- c'est normal. >> Si tu veut un record personel, vous pouvez t'envoy? un copie manuellement >> avec l'interface web chaque fois que vous rejet une message, ou vous pouvez >> utiliz? l'option pour pr?server au disque. >> >> Malheureusement, nous ne peuvons pas t'aider avec activer cet option: Vous >> avez contact? la liste mailman-users, une liste pour les personnes qui >> utilize le logiciel Mailman. Mais pour activer cet option, il faut que vous >> contact votre adminstrateur du site pour votre liste specifique. Je ne >> savent pas qui ce serait. >> >> Terri >> >> >> Marie-Yvette INGABIRE wrote: >> >>> Bonjour, >>> >>> Je suis en train de configurer la cat?gorie une liste de distribution, >>> pour >>> avoir un archivage de message assez utile pour moi. >>> >>> Apr?s les tests que j'ai faits jusqu'? maintenant, les messages approuv?s >>> sont archiv?s, tandis que ceux qui sont rejet?s, je ne trouve pas de >>> trace. >>> D'apr?s la cat?gorie de configuration "*Filtre de contenu*", option >>> "*D?tails >>> de filter action*" il y a diff?rents choix. Quand on choisi de >>> "Pr?server" >>> les messages supprim?s, ils expliquent que ces messages(rejet?s) sont >>> sauv? >>> dans une "*file*" d'atteinte du disque pour que l'administrateur de la >>> liste >>> puisse les voir ou les r?cup?rer s'il le veut ou les supprimer tout >>> court. >>> Mais cet option est disponible seulement apr?s activation par >>> l'administrateur du site. >>> >>> Est-il possible d'activer cet option ? >>> >>> Merci >>> >>> Cordialement, >>> >>> Marie Yvette Leguojeu >>> >>> 2010/1/6 Mark Sapiro >>> >>> Christopher Adams wrote: >>>> >>>>> 3) added a robots.txt file to specifically block that >>>>> domain >>>>> >>>> >>>> You are probably aware of this, but for those who may not be, >>>> legitimate search engines and such will honor your robots.txt file >>>> directives and meta tag (no)index,(no)follow directives in pages, but >>>> spammers and the like crawling your site for nefarious purposes will >>>> ignore them. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, >>>> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >>>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >>>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >>>> Searchable Archives: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/donsmile68%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > > > -- > Marie Yvette Leguojeu > -- Marie Yvette Leguojeu From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 8 16:12:43 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 07:12:43 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fellswoop? In-Reply-To: <8f295a581001080104h5b3bad43v80637d6961161c28@mail.gmail.com> References: <27572d931001052159k162769fek6f7372ee02e172eb@mail.gmail.com> <8f295a581001060837k3b578780x552f8bd4ae3b5b5@mail.gmail.com> <4B44FB67.60406@zone12.com> <8f295a581001070000o645dc4cdh5e01d366de595d5a@mail.gmail.com> <8f295a581001080104h5b3bad43v80637d6961161c28@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B474B6B.1050906@msapiro.net> On 1/8/2010 1:04 AM, Marie-Yvette INGABIRE wrote: > > J'ai cr?? une liste de distribution avec ses abonn?s et un mod?rateur. Parmi > les abonn?es se trouve d'autres listes de distribution, X, Y,Z. Comment > faire pour que, une fois que le mod?rateur approuve un message, les abonn?es > des liste de distribution X,Y,Z re?oivent tout de suite le message approuv? > sans que les mod?rateur de ces listes r? approuve encore le message envoy?? > Ces listes de distribution sont des abonn?es qui contiennent d'autres > abonn?es. A rough translation from > I created a list of distribution with his subscribers and a moderator. Among > the subscribers is of other lists of distribution, X, Y, Z. How > make so that, once the moderator approves a message, the subscribers > of list of distribution X, Y, Z receive right away the approved message > without that moderator of these lists r? still approves the sent message? > These lists of distribution are subscribers who contain others > subscribers. This question is addressed in the FAQs at and . You may also wish to consider that instead of adding the X,Y and Z lists as members of the parent list you can add them as regular_include_lists as discussed at the end of the FAQ at . Also, please note that mailman-users at python.org is an English language list. It is impolite to post in other languages that many list members do not understand. We try to be as helpful as we can, but we request that posts be in English. Machine translation of the above: Cette question est adress?e dans le FAQs ? et . Vous pouvez vouloir aussi estimer qu'au lieu d'ajouter les X, Y et Z ?num?re comme les membres de la liste parentale vous pouvez les ajouter comme regular_include_lists comme discut? ? la fin du FAQ ? . Aussi, notez s'il vous pla?t qu'est mailman-users at python.org une liste de langue anglaise. Il est impoli pour voyager par la poste dans d'autres langues que beaucoup de membres de liste ne comprennent pas. Nous essayons d'?tre aussi secourables que nous pouvons, mais nous demandons que les postes soient en anglais. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From phanh at canby.k12.or.us Fri Jan 8 19:00:13 2010 From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:00:13 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to check mailman on successfully hand off the message? Message-ID: Hello, folks We have about two dozens of lists set to confirm subscription. All lists are working except one. Somehow the confirmation email never get to the users even though, the smtp log indicates that Mailman dispatches a message for each subscription. Jan 06 16:14:51 2010 (2305) smtp to chs_parents for 1 recips, completed in 0.067 seconds Jan 06 16:17:29 2010 (2305) smtp to chs_parents for 1 recips, completed in 0.072 seconds Jan 06 16:19:40 2010 (2305) smtp to chs_parents for 1 recips, completed in 0.070 seconds Jan 06 16:23:39 2010 (2305) smtp to chs_parents for 1 recips, completed in 0.066 seconds On the recipient side, the ISP could not find any trace of the messages being delivered to their email server. They ask us to check whether the messages were successfully hand-off. Beside from the smtp log, any other log that may indicates the messages were successfully sent out? Our Mailman is hosted on Fedora 10, Mailman 2.1.12, Exim 4.69-7 Any advice is very appreciate for the newbie :) From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Fri Jan 8 19:48:37 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 18:48:37 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to check mailman on successfully hand off the message? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100108184837.GE3079@amyl.org.uk> On Fri, Jan 08, 2010 at 10:00:13AM -0800, Hung Phan wrote: > Hello, folks > > We have about two dozens of lists set to confirm subscription. All > lists are working except one. Curious. What's different in that list's config, that isn't with the others? Maybe dump the lists configs, and diff them? > Somehow the confirmation email never get > to the users even though, the smtp log indicates that Mailman > dispatches a message for each subscription. > > Jan 06 16:14:51 2010 (2305) > smtp to > chs_parents for 1 recips, completed in 0.067 seconds Obscuring (if that's what you've done) may not have been too helpful there. If not, your hostname isn't the best choice. > On the recipient side, the ISP could not find any trace of the > messages being delivered to their email server. They ask us to check > whether the messages were successfully hand-off. Beside from the smtp > log, any other log that may indicates the messages were successfully > sent out? > > Our Mailman is hosted on Fedora 10, Mailman 2.1.12, Exim 4.69-7 Your exim logs. -- ``There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies and the other is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies.'' (C. Hoare) From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 8 19:52:04 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:52:04 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to check mailman on successfully hand off themessage? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hung Phan wrote: > >On the recipient side, the ISP could not find any trace of the >messages being delivered to their email server. They ask us to check >whether the messages were successfully hand-off. Beside from the smtp >log, any other log that may indicates the messages were successfully >sent out? > >Our Mailman is hosted on Fedora 10, Mailman 2.1.12, Exim 4.69-7 Assuming that Mailman is delivering to the local Exim, check Exim's log - probably /var/log/exim/exim_main.log. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From phanh at canby.k12.or.us Fri Jan 8 22:42:35 2010 From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 13:42:35 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to check mailman on successfully hand off themessage? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F54C92B-CAE0-4CD7-93E6-0BD0D1837769@canby.k12.or.us> Bingo, got it! The exim log shows that "-owner" is attached to the recipient address. Got to do with umbrella list. Thank you for the advice, On Jan 8, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Hung Phan wrote: >> >> On the recipient side, the ISP could not find any trace of the >> messages being delivered to their email server. They ask us to check >> whether the messages were successfully hand-off. Beside from the smtp >> log, any other log that may indicates the messages were successfully >> sent out? >> >> Our Mailman is hosted on Fedora 10, Mailman 2.1.12, Exim 4.69-7 > > > Assuming that Mailman is delivering to the local Exim, check Exim's > log > - probably /var/log/exim/exim_main.log. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > From johnf at net2000.com.au Sat Jan 9 01:46:05 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 11:46:05 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archives query. Message-ID: From looking at the FAQ it appears that one can only remove mailing list archives if one has shell access. Is that correct ? If it is then are there any plans for us CPanel users to be able to remove archives in a future Mailman release please ? Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 9 02:12:17 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 17:12:17 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archives query. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: > >>From looking at the FAQ it appears that one can only remove mailing >list archives if one has shell access. Is that correct ? > >If it is then are there any plans for us CPanel users to be able to >remove archives in a future Mailman release please ? It is not strictly necessary to have access to a traditional shell. cPanel or a hosting provider could provide some kind of control panel or web service to do this, but those things do not exist in GNU Mailman as released. There are going to be more archiving choices in MM3 via a plugin architecture. We would also like to give list admins more control over their list's archives. How that will translate into a cPanel package if at all is beyond our ability to predict. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From srb at umich.edu Sat Jan 9 02:07:58 2010 From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling) Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 20:07:58 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archives query. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <24C1ECF2CD081A4CAC0A0922@srb.icpsr.umich.edu> --On January 9, 2010 11:46:05 AM +1100 John Fitzsimons wrote: > From looking at the FAQ it appears that one can only remove mailing > list archives if one has shell access. Is that correct ? > > If it is then are there any plans for us CPanel users to be able to > remove archives in a future Mailman release please ? To which I reply: You'll have to ask the CPanel folks about that. From stephen at xemacs.org Sat Jan 9 03:32:54 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 11:32:54 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archives query. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <871vi057op.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> John Fitzsimons writes: > If it is then are there any plans for us CPanel users to be able to > remove archives in a future Mailman release please ? John, it's not called "free software" because you pay nothing for it. It's call "free software" because you, and I, and the general public are licensed to do almost anything with the software. The only condition in this license that matters is that if we redistribute any form of Mailman, we must provide the *recipient* with the source code of the program. (Note: *not* "the public"; that's important.) The company that provides cPanel has taken advantage of this license offered to *all* in the public to incorporate GNU Mailman in their hosting product. This relationship is entirely one-sided: they take the Mailman code, but have *never* provided any input to development or support of Mailman users that I know of. Yes, CPanel has its conveniences. It also has its inconveniences, and *those are entirely your problem* because we have no claim at all on cPanel's attention, by the *vendor's* choice. Please stop posting about cPanel here, and take responsibility for *your* choice. If you want to help, including helping yourself, you can (1) Go talk to your service provider, and see if you can get them to give you a copy of the cPanel version of Mailman. Make a diff and post it online, and to the mailman-developers at python.org mailing list. According to the Mailman license, if you can get somebody to voluntarily give you a copy of a legitimately received copy, you do have the right to do that. In the future, if you have a problem (bug) with cPanel Mailman, you can point the developers to that copy, and (if they have time), you may get some help. Missing features are still your problem, whether they are something that cPanel has subtracted or something that Mailman could do but doesn't. You might get some sympathy for the latter, of course. (2) Talk to the cPanel people, find out what their plans are, and post the answers here. If they ask you *not* to do that, post simply that fact. Better yet, add either kind of answer to the FAQ on cPanel. These are not things Mailman developers can do *for* you. These companies talk only to their customers (if they even do that). Alteratively, you could bite the bullet, and ask for help in installing your own Mailman, and have access to all the facilities, as well as receiving much more detailed (not to mention enthusiastic) help on this list and (often) in private. It's called "free software" because *the choice is yours*. From brian at emwd.com Sat Jan 9 04:06:21 2010 From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 22:06:21 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archives query. In-Reply-To: <871vi057op.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <871vi057op.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <052001ca90d8$b9c79180$2d56b480$@com> > -----Original Message----- > From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman- > users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Stephen J. > Turnbull > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:33 PM > To: John Fitzsimons > Cc: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archives query. > > John Fitzsimons writes: > > > If it is then are there any plans for us CPanel users to be able to > > remove archives in a future Mailman release please ? > > John, it's not called "free software" because you pay nothing for it. > It's call "free software" because you, and I, and the general public > are licensed to do almost anything with the software. The only > condition in this license that matters is that if we redistribute any > form of Mailman, we must provide the *recipient* with the source code > of the program. (Note: *not* "the public"; that's important.) > > The company that provides cPanel has taken advantage of this license > offered to *all* in the public to incorporate GNU Mailman in their > hosting product. This relationship is entirely one-sided: they take > the Mailman code, but have *never* provided any input to development > or support of Mailman users that I know of. > > Yes, CPanel has its conveniences. It also has its inconveniences, and > *those are entirely your problem* because we have no claim at all on > cPanel's attention, by the *vendor's* choice. Please stop posting > about cPanel here, and take responsibility for *your* choice. > > If you want to help, including helping yourself, you can > > (1) Go talk to your service provider, and see if you can get them to > give you a copy of the cPanel version of Mailman. Make a diff and > post it online, and to the mailman-developers at python.org mailing > list. According to the Mailman license, if you can get somebody > to voluntarily give you a copy of a legitimately received copy, > you do have the right to do that. In the future, if you have a > problem (bug) with cPanel Mailman, you can point the developers to > that copy, and (if they have time), you may get some help. > > Missing features are still your problem, whether they are > something that cPanel has subtracted or something that Mailman > could do but doesn't. You might get some sympathy for the latter, > of course. > > (2) Talk to the cPanel people, find out what their plans are, and post > the answers here. If they ask you *not* to do that, post simply > that fact. Better yet, add either kind of answer to the FAQ on > cPanel. > > These are not things Mailman developers can do *for* you. These > companies talk only to their customers (if they even do that). > > Alteratively, you could bite the bullet, and ask for help in > installing your own Mailman, and have access to all the facilities, as > well as receiving much more detailed (not to mention enthusiastic) > help on this list and (often) in private. > > It's called "free software" because *the choice is yours*. Wow! That is a harsh reply. I think all John was trying to find out was how to remove their archives without having direct access to the backend of mailman. Unfortunately there is not. However John's hosting company should be able to assist him in doing that. We have when requested by our own clients. He is really not posting about cPanel here. He is simply trying to get some assistance with Mailman which he is using via his cPanel hosting account. He may be perhaps confused about the relationship between cPanel and Mailman which is understandable. On a positive note, cPanel has introduce a large number of folks to Mailman who would have otherwise been ignorant of its existence. Brian EMWD.com From davidoweir3 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jan 8 17:46:27 2010 From: davidoweir3 at yahoo.co.uk (davidoweir3 at yahoo.co.uk) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 16:46:27 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?utf-8?q?RSS_feed?= Message-ID: <303069.39880.qm@smtp106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hello there how do i subscribe to this list using my rss feed From davidoweir3 at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jan 9 09:23:24 2010 From: davidoweir3 at yahoo.co.uk (davidoweir3 at yahoo.co.uk) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 08:23:24 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?utf-8?q?Information_and_help?= Message-ID: <953233.7007.qm@smtp148.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Is there any addon's for Nailman Can i connect it to google groups and how do i get this list to work on my rss feed and would you recommend me getting a SSL for the site what can a admin do and how do i install this on a Cpanel VPS Linux What requirement's do i need on the VPS for mailman to work how do i make the list on list.example.com for example From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Sat Jan 9 16:52:48 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 15:52:48 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Information and help In-Reply-To: <953233.7007.qm@smtp148.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <953233.7007.qm@smtp148.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100109155248.GF3079@amyl.org.uk> On Sat, Jan 09, 2010 at 08:23:24AM +0000, davidoweir3 at yahoo.co.uk wrote: > Is there any addon's for Nailman Wait for Mailman 3. > Can i connect it to google groups by 'connect' it's possible to subscribe the address of a google group to Mailman. Although I'd see that as duplicious, and if there are subscribers to the google-group, keeping posts (and perhaps memberships) in sync might be a little effort. > and how do i get this list to work on my rss feed there's probably an email -> rss CPAN module. YMMV (I don't use RSS myself). > and would you recommend me getting a SSL for the site It's not really worth encrypting the web-traffic if you won't be encrypting the mail. Why would you want to use SSL? > what can a admin do Read the docs. > and how do i install this on a Cpanel VPS Linux Ask CPanel: search other list-posts from this week (and others) regarding CPanel's reluctance to open-up their modifications to their code. > What requirement's do i need on the VPS for mailman to work Depends on: * the configuration of the machine; * what else is running on the machine; * how much mail you'll be sending; * if you're going to be handling things to counter spam, virus-laden mails, poor MIME types; * hits to the httpd; * and a variety of other factors. > how do i make the list on list.example.com for example Read the Docs. (bin/newlist is one way) -- ``Have you always been revolutionary socialists?'' ``No, we vote Conservative.'' (Simon Hoggart, interviewing a middle-class couple at a reading of Tony Benn's speeches) From rclemings at gmail.com Sat Jan 9 17:01:36 2010 From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 08:01:36 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archives query. Message-ID: Maybe I'm missing something obvious here, but why can't the OP just go into the Mailman web admin page and set the archiving options like anybody else? I have a cPanel VPS with shell access so I create all my lists there. But I just set up a test list within cPanel and was able to get to the web admin page by selecting "mail," then "mailing lists," then "edit" for the appropriate list. You'll need to supply the password you specified when you created the list. Then just go to "archiving options" and make your changes. rac ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "Brian Carpenter" > To: "'Stephen J. Turnbull'" , "'John Fitzsimons'" < > johnf at net2000.com.au> > Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 22:06:21 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Removing archives query. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman- > > users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Stephen J. > > Turnbull > > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:33 PM > > To: John Fitzsimons > > Cc: mailman-users at python.org > > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archives query. > > > > John Fitzsimons writes: > > > > > If it is then are there any plans for us CPanel users to be able to > > > remove archives in a future Mailman release please ? > > > > John, it's not called "free software" because you pay nothing for it. > > It's call "free software" because you, and I, and the general public > > are licensed to do almost anything with the software. The only > > condition in this license that matters is that if we redistribute any > > form of Mailman, we must provide the *recipient* with the source code > > of the program. (Note: *not* "the public"; that's important.) > > > > The company that provides cPanel has taken advantage of this license > > offered to *all* in the public to incorporate GNU Mailman in their > > hosting product. This relationship is entirely one-sided: they take > > the Mailman code, but have *never* provided any input to development > > or support of Mailman users that I know of. > > > > Yes, CPanel has its conveniences. It also has its inconveniences, and > > *those are entirely your problem* because we have no claim at all on > > cPanel's attention, by the *vendor's* choice. Please stop posting > > about cPanel here, and take responsibility for *your* choice. > > > > If you want to help, including helping yourself, you can > > > > (1) Go talk to your service provider, and see if you can get them to > > give you a copy of the cPanel version of Mailman. Make a diff and > > post it online, and to the mailman-developers at python.org mailing > > list. According to the Mailman license, if you can get somebody > > to voluntarily give you a copy of a legitimately received copy, > > you do have the right to do that. In the future, if you have a > > problem (bug) with cPanel Mailman, you can point the developers to > > that copy, and (if they have time), you may get some help. > > > > Missing features are still your problem, whether they are > > something that cPanel has subtracted or something that Mailman > > could do but doesn't. You might get some sympathy for the latter, > > of course. > > > > (2) Talk to the cPanel people, find out what their plans are, and post > > the answers here. If they ask you *not* to do that, post simply > > that fact. Better yet, add either kind of answer to the FAQ on > > cPanel. > > > > These are not things Mailman developers can do *for* you. These > > companies talk only to their customers (if they even do that). > > > > Alteratively, you could bite the bullet, and ask for help in > > installing your own Mailman, and have access to all the facilities, as > > well as receiving much more detailed (not to mention enthusiastic) > > help on this list and (often) in private. > > > > It's called "free software" because *the choice is yours*. > > Wow! That is a harsh reply. > > I think all John was trying to find out was how to remove their archives > without having direct access to the backend of mailman. Unfortunately there > is not. However John's hosting company should be able to assist him in > doing > that. We have when requested by our own clients. > > He is really not posting about cPanel here. He is simply trying to get some > assistance with Mailman which he is using via his cPanel hosting account. > He > may be perhaps confused about the relationship between cPanel and Mailman > which is understandable. > > On a positive note, cPanel has introduce a large number of folks to Mailman > who would have otherwise been ignorant of its existence. > > Brian > EMWD.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 9 17:12:33 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 08:12:33 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archives query. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Russell Clemings wrote: >Maybe I'm missing something obvious here, but why can't the OP just go into >the Mailman web admin page and set the archiving options like anybody else? He doesn't want to change the list's archiving settings. He wants to delete older posts from the archive to free up storage space. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Sun Jan 10 12:03:44 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:03:44 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archives query. In-Reply-To: <052001ca90d8$b9c79180$2d56b480$@com> References: <871vi057op.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <052001ca90d8$b9c79180$2d56b480$@com> Message-ID: <87vdfa43xr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Brian Carpenter writes: > > John Fitzsimons writes: > > > > > If it is then are there any plans for us CPanel users to be > > > able to remove archives in a future Mailman release please ? > > John, it's not called "free software" because you pay nothing for > > it. It's call "free software" because you, and I, and the > > general public are licensed to do almost anything with the > > software. > Wow! That is a harsh reply. Heh. If you don't like my writing style, well, I'm aware of (some of) my deficiencies. Feel free to preempt my posts with your own. I'll be almost as happy as everyone else. Maybe my reply was harsh. The realities facing free software projects are harsh, too. The OP has as yet contributed nothing, and he is implicitly asking the Mailman project to put effort into a feature that benefits primarily people who are using a product that also returns nothing to Mailman, and mostly serves to add value to services that return nothing to Mailman and provide insufficient support to their own customers. Now, there is no legal requirement whatsoever that users *contribute* anything back (and IMHO, no ethical requirement either). He is not even bound by the GPL since he doesn't actually have the software himself IIUC. But most people do want to contribute something. He has made it plain that his technical skills make it difficult for him to do much in the way of code or user support; I offered a detailed plan for how he *could* help *if he wants to*. I should explain why I believe *this* feature doesn't really benefit Mailman itself. It requires destroying data, on behalf of people who almost by definition don't know exactly what they're doing. In some cases, doing this properly would require ensuring a fresh backup before removing that data, and that is something that the host administrator must do, and he should provide advice to the (naive) user before it is done. > He is really not posting about cPanel here. He is simply trying to > get some assistance with Mailman which he is using via his cPanel > hosting account. That is a rather generous interpretation of the words you quote above, and especially in context. He made it quite plain that cPanel is an important, perhaps essential, ingredient in his use of Mailman. > He may be perhaps confused about the relationship between cPanel > and Mailman which is understandable. Indeed, and the main point of my post was to clarify that relationship, and to elucidate the "software ecosystem" that supports the services he is using. > On a positive note, cPanel has introduce a large number of folks to > Mailman who would have otherwise been ignorant of its existence. Yes, on false pretenses, it would seem. If cPanel and hosting services using cPanel would provide proper support to their users, *they* would be posting here requesting the feature (not to mention offering financial support). With "friends" like that.... I have no objection to commercial use of free software. For example, I am very pleased that you are present on the list -- the fact that you offer a good value proposition for people who can afford your rather modest fees is a Really Good Thing[tm] for Mailman. OTOH, cPanel has for years been withholding their sources from the community, and (some) hosting companies using cPanel have similarly been shuffling off their support responsibilities onto the Mailman developers and supporters for equally long. Now the legal obligation of cPanel is nil, and the ethical obligation is in some sense moot (we knew about this when we chose to contribute to a GPLed project). But since *we* *are* going try to help cPanel users who show up here, it would be really nice to have access to a reasonably fresh copy of those sources. They *must* come from a cPanel customer; the GPL does not permit us to just go out and grab them. That is something he may be able to do for us, if he wants to. -- Ask not how you can "do" free software business. Rather ask, "What can my business do for software freedom?" From rb211 at tds.net Sun Jan 10 16:42:58 2010 From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 10:42:58 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archives query. In-Reply-To: <87vdfa43xr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <052001ca90d8$b9c79180$2d56b480$@com> <87vdfa43xr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <201001101042.58778.rb211@tds.net> On Sunday 10 January 2010, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > snip > > I should explain why I believe *this* feature doesn't really benefit > Mailman itself. It requires destroying data, on behalf of people who > almost by definition don't know exactly what they're doing. In some > cases, doing this properly would require ensuring a fresh backup > before removing that data, and that is something that the host > administrator must do, and he should provide advice to the (naive) > user before it is done. Respectively disagree. Even end users of a mailing list can download Gzip'd copies of the archives. The list owner can turn archiving off and the domain administrator (cPanel end user) can *delete* the entire list if they desire. What none of these people can do is simply edit the archives. Spam, blocks of older posts when the plan runs out of space, even Aunt Bee's secret pickle recipe all must await support at the hosting company to remove. Personally know more list owners I would trust with this task than level 1 support personal. Also believe this feature would be usefull for list owners of any flavor of Mailman. Guessing (hoping) cPanel would jump at the chance to pass it to their customers. Reducing support requests is also a good thing:) > snip > Now the legal obligation of cPanel is nil, and the ethical obligation > is in some sense moot (we knew about this when we chose to contribute > to a GPLed project). But since *we* *are* going try to help cPanel > users who show up here, it would be really nice to have access to a > reasonably fresh copy of those sources. They *must* come from a > cPanel customer; the GPL does not permit us to just go out and grab > them. > > That is something he may be able to do for us, if he wants to. If John F. has no luck with his hosting provider I will try mine. -- William From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Sun Jan 10 17:12:34 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:12:34 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archives query. In-Reply-To: <201001101042.58778.rb211@tds.net> References: <052001ca90d8$b9c79180$2d56b480$@com> <87vdfa43xr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <201001101042.58778.rb211@tds.net> Message-ID: <20100110161234.GI3079@amyl.org.uk> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 10:42:58AM -0500, William Bagwell wrote: > Respectively disagree. Even end users of a mailing list can download > Gzip'd copies of the archives. The list owner can turn archiving off and > the domain administrator (cPanel end user) can *delete* the entire list > if they desire. What none of these people can do is simply edit the > archives. Without shell access, in 'proper' Mailman, editing archives via a web-interface isn't a feature. It does look (on a quick check) like Barry's implementing something to allow deletion of messages in Mailman 3; see / and the 'Deleting messages from the store' section (in the rev I'm looking at lines 95 -> 116. > Spam, blocks of older posts when the plan runs out of space, > even Aunt Bee's secret pickle recipe all must await support at the > hosting company to remove. Hum, that makes me think there aren't that many calls for this sort of thing. The lazy hosting SysAdmin in me would think, "oh, they want to do this. I imagine others would too. Let me write something to do that". It's very rare that I have to edit list-archives. I hate doing it. Even with mutt against the mbox. It's still a complete pain (not least for breaking URIs). (That aspect is fixed in MM3, though.) > Personally know more list owners I would trust with this task than level 1 > support personal. In which case, empower (or get others who can to) the list-owners to so do. It makes sense for companies to listen to their customers. -- ``I speak better English than this villain Bush.'' (Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf, attrib.) From tvrepairs at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 11:08:19 2010 From: tvrepairs at gmail.com (Harry Fogarty) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 02:08:19 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending mail from 1 member to all members Message-ID: I am having an issue of sending mail from one user to all the users of the mailing list. It seems like the main mail from a user comes to me which is the admin and then when I reply to that email it only goes back to the sender. How do I get this to go to all members of the list so that everyone can be involved in the questions that are being asked by the user. Harry Fogarty Terrace B.C. Canada Website : www.schematicsforum.com _________________________________________________________________ Reinvent how you stay in touch with the new Windows Live Messenger. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9706116 From mark.lane.100 at comcast.net Sun Jan 10 15:20:46 2010 From: mark.lane.100 at comcast.net (mark lane) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 08:20:46 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman to RSS Message-ID: <01fc01ca9200$1eb27e70$5c177b50$@lane.100@comcast.net> Hi, Hope things are going well! Do happen to know an easy way to setup a mailman to RSS feed? Mark Lane CAEAP President 947-517-6422 mark.lane.100 at comcast.net Member: Center for the Advancement of the Enterprise Architecture Profession http://caeap.org/images/acronym-s.jpg From gaylelaible at fuse.net Mon Jan 11 02:54:08 2010 From: gaylelaible at fuse.net (Gayle Laible) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:54:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question Message-ID: I want to start a newsletter and I see your logo at the bottom of several things I get. I have a Max OSX Version 10.5.8. It is an older laptop that I have updated several times. It does not have an Intel processor... Can I download and use Mailman on my Mac? Thanks Gayle Gayle Laible, CDA gayle at gaylelaibledesigns.com http://www.gaylelaibledesigns.com View my website for watercolor pattern packets, books, Royal brushes, Maimeriblu paints, and watercolor supplies. All E-Packets are $4.50, no shipping and handling charges. Check out my website http://www.gaylelaibledesigns.com/Workshops.html for my classes at Conventions, Workshops, Seminars, Chapter Meetings. Anyone interested in buying a house/viewing with a Cincinnati skyline plus a river view, go to: http://www.nkyhomeforsale.com/properties/631/portfoliob.cfm From comradekats at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 09:58:41 2010 From: comradekats at gmail.com (Anna Kats) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 03:58:41 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] WBAR listserv Message-ID: <698890371001100058u35e53d43o2da0c2b606f13994@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I'm writing on behalf of WBAR Barnard College Radio. We use your service ( lists.wbar.org), but have been having some problems. Our former webmaster left the group without giving us any information or passwords, but managed to make me an admin on our listserv prior to this. However, he didn't give me any passwords and my attempts to contact him has been met with no response; therefore, can you help me retrieve or reset the password to our listserv? Thank you! Anna -- Anna Kats Co-Promotions Director WBAR Barnard College Radio wbar.org From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 11 15:52:09 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 06:52:09 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending mail from 1 member to all members In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B4B3B19.8060508@msapiro.net> On 1/10/2010 2:08 AM, Harry Fogarty wrote: > > I am having an issue of sending mail from one user to all the > users of the mailing list. It seems like the main mail from a user > comes to me which is the admin and then when I reply to that email > it only goes back to the sender. How do I get this to go to all > members of the list so that everyone can be involved in the > questions that are being asked by the user. My guess is that your list members are sending their posts to listname-owner at ... instead of to listname at ... (or possibly to listname-bounces at ... if you receive the mail as an unrecognized bounce). Then you do lot include the list address in your reply either. As to why your members are not addressing their posts properly, I don't know. Perhaps the FAQ at may help. OTOH, it is possible that your list members are moderated and you have your list set to discard posts from moderated members and also to forward auto discards to the admin so that posts from moderated members get forwarded to you only. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rob.macgregor at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 15:53:01 2010 From: rob.macgregor at gmail.com (Rob MacGregor) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:53:01 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] WBAR listserv In-Reply-To: <698890371001100058u35e53d43o2da0c2b606f13994@mail.gmail.com> References: <698890371001100058u35e53d43o2da0c2b606f13994@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43ea8d071001110653h5b383a0ajb84ffafc2f724882@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 08:58, Anna Kats wrote: > Hello, > > I'm writing on behalf of WBAR Barnard College Radio. We use your service ( > lists.wbar.org), You don't - you use the services of whoever hosts your list. This list is about the software (GNU Mailman) that underpins that service. > but have been having some problems. Our former webmaster > left the group without giving us any information or passwords, but managed > to make me an admin on our listserv prior to this. However, he didn't give > me any passwords and my attempts to contact him has been met with no > response; therefore, can you help me retrieve or reset the password to our > listserv? Contact the administrator of your service (possibly Dreamhost). -- Please keep list traffic on the list. Rob MacGregor Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he doesn't become a monster. Friedrich Nietzsche From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 11 16:04:14 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:04:14 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Gayle Laible wrote: >I want to start a newsletter and I see your logo at the bottom of >several things I get. I have a Max OSX Version 10.5.8. It is an >older laptop that I have updated several times. It does not have an >Intel processor... Can I download and use Mailman on my Mac? As long as it is Mac OS X, it is possible, even with a non-Intel processor. See the FAQ at . Also see the installation manual at for an idea of what's involved. In general you also need a fixed IP address with a domain name and proper reverse DNS in order to be able to reliably send mail. However, if you are using this for an outgoing newsletter only, it is possible to set up and use Mailman without a web server and without incoming mail and with outgoing mail going through your ISP, although the ISP may limit how much mail you can send. In this environment, you would have to interact with Mailman entirely via 'terminal', and it would probably be just as easy to send your newsletter as an ordinary email with Bcc: to the recipients. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From srb at umich.edu Mon Jan 11 15:57:49 2010 From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:57:49 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9324FC3B7FB4A73D39FD320D@srb.icpsr.umich.edu> --On January 10, 2010 8:54:08 PM -0500 Gayle Laible wrote: > I want to start a newsletter and I see your logo at the bottom of several > things I get. I have a Max OSX Version 10.5.8. It is an older laptop > that I have updated several times. It does not have an Intel > processor... Can I download and use Mailman on my Mac? To which I reply: Short answer: yes. Longer answer: if the laptop isn't powered on and on the network with a publicly-routable IP address 24x7, then it's, shall we say, sub-optimal. You'd be better off talking to the folks at about hosting the list for you. -- Steve Burling University of Michigan, ICPSR Voice: +1 734 615.3779 330 Packard Street FAX: +1 734 647.8700 Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910 From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 11 16:27:20 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:27:20 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman to RSS In-Reply-To: <01fc01ca9200$1eb27e70$5c177b50$@lane.100@comcast.net> Message-ID: mark lane wrote: > >Hope things are going well! Do happen to know an easy way to setup a mailman >to RSS feed? Search the web for "email to rss". There you'll find things like (this is not a recommendation; it's just the first google hit from the above search). -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From b.mooney at auckland.ac.nz Tue Jan 12 04:15:16 2010 From: b.mooney at auckland.ac.nz (Bernadette Mooney) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:15:16 +1300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change configs for ALL lists? Message-ID: <1263266116.21040.73.camel@luggage> was: Re: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fell swoop? We had the same thing here - 900 lists, 120,000 subscribers - but while the 400-odd bulk-unsubs went well, cleaning out the 'pending' 700 or so authorisation requests was a little more problematic. However, 'tis done now. The current question is: How can I change the configuration of ALL lists, to add a line like "ban_list = ['^[A-Za-z0-9._]+@[Nn]astymail\\.org' or "header_filter_rules = [('Subject:.*\\*\\*\\*SPAM\\*\\*\\*.*', 3, False)]" or add an extra address to the ban_list line? config_list? with_list? but how? And no, I'm no programmer, just a little quick'n'dirty shell scripting is as much as I can handle. :( BCNU..................B. Bernadette Mooney From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 12 04:44:12 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:44:12 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change configs for ALL lists? In-Reply-To: <1263266116.21040.73.camel@luggage> References: <1263266116.21040.73.camel@luggage> Message-ID: <4B4BF00C.30309@msapiro.net> On 1/11/2010 7:15 PM, Bernadette Mooney wrote: > > The current question is: How can I change the configuration of ALL lists, to add a line like > "ban_list = ['^[A-Za-z0-9._]+@[Nn]astymail\\.org' > or > "header_filter_rules = [('Subject:.*\\*\\*\\*SPAM\\*\\*\\*.*', 3, False)]" > or > add an extra address to the ban_list line? > > config_list? with_list? but how? For the first two, see the FAQ at To add to the ban_list of all lists see (mirrored at ). -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Tue Jan 12 13:45:40 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:45:40 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman to RSS Message-ID: <20100112124540.GQ3079@amyl.org.uk> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 08:20:46AM -0600, mark lane wrote: > Hope things are going well! Do happen to know an easy way to setup a mailman > to RSS feed? >From the listinfo: "You might want to start by reading the Mailman FAQ Wiki. Also check out the official searchable archives." There was a thread within the last few days on the very same question. -- ```Our team was the worst in the First Division and I'm sure it'll be the worst in the Premier League.'' [Sir Jack actually said] ``Our tea was the worst in the First Division and I'm sure it'll be the worst in the Premier League.'' Profuse apologies.' (correction, in The Guardian) From Elaine.Ashton at Sun.COM Mon Jan 11 17:50:09 2010 From: Elaine.Ashton at Sun.COM (Elaine Ashton) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:50:09 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman to RSS In-Reply-To: <01fc01ca9200$1eb27e70$5c177b50$%lane.100@comcast.net> References: <01fc01ca9200$1eb27e70$5c177b50$%lane.100@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6A5D468A-209F-4DEB-BD5F-E180926C40FF@sun.com> On Jan 10, 2010, at 9:20 AM, mark lane wrote: > Hi, > > Hope things are going well! Do happen to know an easy way to setup a mailman > to RSS feed? I have a patch set for 2.1.12 that also works with 2.1.13 that we've been using for a while now that does the job if you're interested. e. From Elaine.Ashton at Sun.COM Tue Jan 12 14:35:03 2010 From: Elaine.Ashton at Sun.COM (Elaine Ashton) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 08:35:03 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change configs for ALL lists? In-Reply-To: <4B4BF00C.30309@msapiro.net> References: <1263266116.21040.73.camel@luggage> <4B4BF00C.30309@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <505C8F0D-6917-4D57-A789-53DA7A791B07@sun.com> Well, what concerns me is that the spammers are going at these mass subscriptions via the web interface and it may become a game of whack-a-mole banning domains and IPs. Are there any plans to make the web form subscription more of a hurdle for spammers, e.g. captcha, etc? e. From Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu Mon Jan 11 18:05:33 2010 From: Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu (Young, Darren) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:05:33 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] API Version Mismatch Message-ID: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7054A0E9B@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> I'm calling config_list to take backups and get the following: /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/korean/c/euc_kr.py:24: RuntimeWarning: Python C API version mismatch for module _koco: This Python has API version 1012, module _koco has version 1011. The dump appears to work correctly, is that error "safe" to ignore? I've seen a couple other posts regarding this but have not been able to locate any previous solutions. Pertinent environmental information: [root at bushlms01 scripts]# cat /etc/redhat-release Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server release 5.4 (Tikanga) [root at bushlms01 scripts]# uname -a Linux bushlms01 2.6.18-164.9.1.el5 #1 SMP Wed Dec 9 03:29:54 EST 2009 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux [root at bushlms01 scripts]# /usr/local/mailman/bin/version Using Mailman version: 2.1.5 [root at bushlms01 scripts]# /usr/bin/python -V Python 2.4.3 Thanks in advance, Darren Young Systems & Security Architect Computing Services University of Chicago Booth School of Business 5807 South Woodlawn Avenue Chicago, IL 60637 Voice 773.702.0331 | Fax 773.702.0233 From Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu Mon Jan 11 19:30:29 2010 From: Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu (Young, Darren) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:30:29 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman backup script Message-ID: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7054A0FBA@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> We've been using a config_list based shell script for the past several years to backup all of our Mailman mailing lists. While I was in making some changes today I thought I would post it, perhaps the community can get some value out of it as well. It is available at: http://home.uchicago.edu/~youngd/mailman/dump_configs.txt Darren Young Systems & Security Architect Computing Services University of Chicago Booth School of Business 5807 South Woodlawn Avenue Chicago, IL 60637 Voice 773.702.0331 | Fax 773.702.0233 From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 12 15:35:26 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 06:35:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] API Version Mismatch In-Reply-To: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7054A0E9B@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: Young, Darren wrote: >I'm calling config_list to take backups and get the following: > >/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/korean/c/euc_kr.py:24: RuntimeWarning: >Python C API version mismatch for module _koco: This Python has API >version 1012, module _koco has version 1011. > >The dump appears to work correctly, is that error "safe" to ignore? Yes, but... (You probably also have the same warning in Mailman's error log from each of the qrunners whenever you start or restart Mailman.) The error occurs because the korean Codecs in /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/korean/ were built and installed with a different Python version from the one that Mailman is running under. Probably you installed a package and then upgraded Python, or perhaps the package rpm was just built with a different Python. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From terri at zone12.com Tue Jan 12 19:47:20 2010 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:47:20 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change configs for ALL lists? In-Reply-To: <505C8F0D-6917-4D57-A789-53DA7A791B07@sun.com> References: <1263266116.21040.73.camel@luggage> <4B4BF00C.30309@msapiro.net> <505C8F0D-6917-4D57-A789-53DA7A791B07@sun.com> Message-ID: <4B4CC3B8.7090001@zone12.com> Elaine Ashton wrote: > Well, what concerns me is that the spammers are going at these mass subscriptions via the web interface and it may become a game of whack-a-mole banning domains and IPs. Are there any plans to make the web form subscription more of a hurdle for spammers, e.g. captcha, etc? I'm not a big believer in captcha's (advances in tech have made a lot of them trivially easy to in an automated way, making them annoying to users for little gain) but it might be worth thinking about a plug in architecture for this in mm3 in case something better does come up, or so people can enjoy their placebos... From Elaine.Ashton at Sun.COM Tue Jan 12 19:59:57 2010 From: Elaine.Ashton at Sun.COM (Elaine Ashton) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:59:57 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change configs for ALL lists? In-Reply-To: <4B4CC3B8.7090001@zone12.com> References: <1263266116.21040.73.camel@luggage> <4B4BF00C.30309@msapiro.net> <505C8F0D-6917-4D57-A789-53DA7A791B07@sun.com> <4B4CC3B8.7090001@zone12.com> Message-ID: On Jan 12, 2010, at 1:47 PM, Terri Oda wrote: > > I'm not a big believer in captcha's (advances in tech have made a lot of them trivially easy to in an automated way, making them annoying to users for little gain) but it might be worth thinking about a plug in architecture for this in mm3 in case something better does come up, or so people can enjoy their placebos... Even if it only serves to annoying and slow down spammers, I'd use it. I noted ~2000 zeusmail.org subs overnight and it concerns me that this is just the opening salvo since this will drive lists which are already closed to subscribers only to moderate traffic even from subscribers which, for sites like ours with 400 or more lists, isn't really practical. Banning the domain and blocking the IP(s) is only a temporary fix. e. From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Tue Jan 12 20:03:42 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:03:42 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change configs for ALL lists? In-Reply-To: References: <1263266116.21040.73.camel@luggage> <4B4BF00C.30309@msapiro.net> <505C8F0D-6917-4D57-A789-53DA7A791B07@sun.com> <4B4CC3B8.7090001@zone12.com> Message-ID: <20100112190342.GO3079@amyl.org.uk> On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 01:59:57PM -0500, Elaine Ashton wrote: > Even if it only serves to annoying and slow down spammers, I'd use > it. I noted ~2000 zeusmail.org subs overnight Have you thought about rate-limiting? -- ``What does it mean? It means I never have to work again.'' (Don McLean, on `American Pie', attrib.) From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 12 20:08:25 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:08:25 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change configs for ALL lists? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Elaine Ashton > >Even if it only serves to annoying and slow down spammers, I'd use it. I noted ~2000 zeusmail.org subs overnight and it concerns me that this is just the opening salvo since this will drive lists which are already closed to subscribers only to moderate traffic even from subscribers which, for sites like ours with 400 or more lists, isn't really practical. Banning the domain and blocking the IP(s) is only a temporary fix. My .02 - every list to which someone can subscribe without admin approval should moderate new members by default. When they post, if their post is on topic, you can clear their mod bit while approving the post from the web admindb interface with one extra check in a checkbox. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jsditzel at msn.com Tue Jan 12 20:28:52 2010 From: jsditzel at msn.com (John Ditzel) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:28:52 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Message-ID: I'm a new member and I'm not sure how to use the system or the capabilities of mailman to be useful to my bennefit. This may sound silly but I need to be educated some what in mailman and/or if it is even useful for me. I'm just stating to learm (some) html, long way to go, and could use help. Who or where can I get that, please. Thank you, John Create Your Own Viral Software Empire Free For A Limited Time Only! http://www.imbuzzsoftware.com/?afid=38072 From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 12 21:23:30 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:23:30 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Ditzel wrote: > >I'm a new member and I'm not sure how to use the system or the capabilities of mailman to be useful to my bennefit. This may sound silly but I need to be educated some what in mailman and/or if it is even useful for me. I'm just stating to learm (some) html, long way to go, and could use help. Who or where can I get that, please. You might start with the documentation at -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Elaine.Ashton at Sun.COM Tue Jan 12 21:24:46 2010 From: Elaine.Ashton at Sun.COM (Elaine Ashton) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:24:46 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change configs for ALL lists? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6ED1EFC0-6106-4CBE-A571-11710CB1D171@Sun.COM> On Jan 12, 2010, at 2:08 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > My .02 - every list to which someone can subscribe without admin > approval should moderate new members by default. When they post, if > their post is on topic, you can clear their mod bit while approving > the post from the web admindb interface with one extra check in a > checkbox. That's a fair point, but the number of lists I've got with somewhat *ahem* lax admins, that seems a formidable load to add to our ops team, even with the cli tools we have. But...I may consider that route. e. From andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov Tue Jan 12 22:17:31 2010 From: andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov (Andrew Watson) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:17:31 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] many "Subscription disabled" messages after moving list to new server Message-ID: <9AB6A312-C4D3-4D6F-98BF-0A89A2C4A439@nasa.gov> I recently moved a list to a new host, but retained the domain name. After many travails, and help from this list, I got my list working. After about a week of function, I am suddenly getting many "Subscription disabled" messages (about 10% of the 4411 subscribers, so far, but still growing as I write). It is possible that these are legitimate, and these really are bad addresses, and that in the move of the list my bounce processing options changed to be more stringent. Current they are: bounce_processing=Yes bounce_score_threshold= 5.0 bounce_info_stale_after=7 bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings=5 bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval=7 bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner=no bounce_notify_owner_on_disable=yes bounce_notify_owner_on_removal=yes But it seems likely that this is bogus, and good addresses are being disabled (especially if this grows to 100% of subscribers!) Has anyone experienced a similar problem? -Andrew From ivanlan9 at gmail.com Tue Jan 12 22:22:25 2010 From: ivanlan9 at gmail.com (Ivan Van Laningham) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:22:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change configs for ALL lists? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All-- On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Elaine Ashton >> >>Even if it only serves to annoying and slow down spammers, I'd use it. I noted ~2000 zeusmail.org subs overnight and it concerns me that this is just the opening salvo since this will drive lists which are already closed to subscribers only to moderate traffic even from subscribers which, for sites like ours with 400 or more lists, isn't really practical. Banning the domain and blocking the IP(s) is only a temporary fix. > > > My .02 - every list to which someone can subscribe without admin > approval should moderate new members by default. When they post, if > their post is on topic, you can clear their mod bit while approving > the post from the web admindb interface with one extra check in a > checkbox. > Except that in this case, the new subscribers from zeusmail won't ever post; they'll lurk and snarf email addresses of those who do post. Better not to allow them to subscribe to begin with. Metta, Ivan -- Ivan Van Laningham God N Locomotive Works http://www.pauahtun.org/ http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70 Author: Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 12 22:23:59 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:23:59 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] many "Subscription disabled" messages after movinglist to new server In-Reply-To: <9AB6A312-C4D3-4D6F-98BF-0A89A2C4A439@nasa.gov> Message-ID: Andrew Watson wrote: >I recently moved a list to a new host, but retained the domain name. >After many travails, and help from this list, I got my list working. >After about a week of function, I am suddenly getting many "Subscription disabled" messages (about 10% of the 4411 subscribers, so far, but still growing as I write). >It is possible that these are legitimate, and these really are bad addresses, and that in the move of the list my bounce processing options changed to be more stringent. Current they are: > >bounce_processing=Yes >bounce_score_threshold= 5.0 >bounce_info_stale_after=7 >bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings=5 >bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval=7 >bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner=no >bounce_notify_owner_on_disable=yes >bounce_notify_owner_on_removal=yes > >But it seems likely that this is bogus, and good addresses are being disabled (especially if this grows to 100% of subscribers!) >Has anyone experienced a similar problem? bounce_notify_owner_on_disable=yes so you should get a notice for each disable containing a copy of the triggering DSN. What does it say? Does it look legitimate? Also, what if anything do you see in Mailman's smtp-failure log? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From james at thereidsonline.com Tue Jan 12 23:37:03 2010 From: james at thereidsonline.com (James Reid) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:37:03 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] many "Subscription disabled" messages after moving list to new server In-Reply-To: <9AB6A312-C4D3-4D6F-98BF-0A89A2C4A439@nasa.gov> References: <9AB6A312-C4D3-4D6F-98BF-0A89A2C4A439@nasa.gov> Message-ID: <64603.203.35.82.133.1263335823.squirrel@secure.reidware.net> Hi Andrew, I'd have a look to see if the email addresses that are being disabled come from similar domains... problem might be caused by reverse dns or spf records - check out http://knol.google.com/k/ruben-rubio-rey/mail-servers-spam-and-dns-records/2zt8z36uq2soj/5# for some ideas. Regards, James. > I recently moved a list to a new host, but retained the domain name. > After many travails, and help from this list, I got my list working. > After about a week of function, I am suddenly getting many "Subscription > disabled" messages (about 10% of the 4411 subscribers, so far, but still > growing as I write). > It is possible that these are legitimate, and these really are bad > addresses, and that in the move of the list my bounce processing options > changed to be more stringent. Current they are: > > bounce_processing=Yes > bounce_score_threshold= 5.0 > bounce_info_stale_after=7 > bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings=5 > bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval=7 > bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner=no > bounce_notify_owner_on_disable=yes > bounce_notify_owner_on_removal=yes > > But it seems likely that this is bogus, and good addresses are being > disabled (especially if this grows to 100% of subscribers!) > Has anyone experienced a similar problem? > > -Andrew > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/james%40thereidsonline.com > From andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov Wed Jan 13 00:38:13 2010 From: andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov (Andrew Watson) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:38:13 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] many "Subscription disabled" messages after movinglist to new server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40489330-3D96-4A20-8A1A-782D9F6CFC7D@nasa.gov> The bounce notices I get look legitimate. They typically include something like: Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected address Diagnostic code: smtp;550 ... User unknown Mailman's smtp-failure log contains many instances of lines like this (edited, vsadmin at mysite.com is the list administrator) Jan 12 20:48:44 2010 (70977) Low level smtp error: Connection unexpectedly closed, msgid: Jan 12 20:48:45 2010 (70977) delivery to vsadmin at mysite.com failed with code -1: Connection unexpectedly closed There are also a few like this: Jan 12 20:02:54 2010 (70977) Low level smtp error: (48, 'Address already in use'), msgid: Jan 12 20:02:54 2010 (70977) delivery to visionlist-owner at mysite.com failed with code -1: (48, 'Address already in use') These log messages commenced on Jan 12 (today). -Andrew On Jan 12, 2010, at 1:23 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Andrew Watson wrote: >> I recently moved a list to a new host, but retained the domain name. >> After many travails, and help from this list, I got my list working. >> After about a week of function, I am suddenly getting many "Subscription disabled" messages (about 10% of the 4411 subscribers, so far, but still growing as I write). >> It is possible that these are legitimate, and these really are bad addresses, and that in the move of the list my bounce processing options changed to be more stringent. Current they are: >> >> bounce_processing=Yes >> bounce_score_threshold= 5.0 >> bounce_info_stale_after=7 >> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings=5 >> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval=7 >> bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner=no >> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable=yes >> bounce_notify_owner_on_removal=yes >> >> But it seems likely that this is bogus, and good addresses are being disabled (especially if this grows to 100% of subscribers!) >> Has anyone experienced a similar problem? > > > bounce_notify_owner_on_disable=yes so you should get a notice for each > disable containing a copy of the triggering DSN. What does it say? > Does it look legitimate? > > Also, what if anything do you see in Mailman's smtp-failure log? > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > From andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov Wed Jan 13 01:07:31 2010 From: andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov (Andrew Watson) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:07:31 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] many "Subscription disabled" messages after movinglist to new server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3B6607F0-9253-43F3-8DD3-8B07E303F822@nasa.gov> PS: I independently tested one of the offending addresses, and it bounced. So perhaps they really are bad. I looked in the bounce log on the old server, and this same address bounced many times, but bounce info got reset often. The new bounce log has many messages, largely about resetting stale bounce info, and then about bounces. Consistent with bounce processing for a list starting out with many bad addresses. Are the configuration data stored in a readable file? I could go back to the old server and find out what bounce options I used there. -Andrew On Jan 12, 2010, at 1:23 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Andrew Watson wrote: >> I recently moved a list to a new host, but retained the domain name. >> After many travails, and help from this list, I got my list working. >> After about a week of function, I am suddenly getting many "Subscription disabled" messages (about 10% of the 4411 subscribers, so far, but still growing as I write). >> It is possible that these are legitimate, and these really are bad addresses, and that in the move of the list my bounce processing options changed to be more stringent. Current they are: >> >> bounce_processing=Yes >> bounce_score_threshold= 5.0 >> bounce_info_stale_after=7 >> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings=5 >> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval=7 >> bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner=no >> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable=yes >> bounce_notify_owner_on_removal=yes >> >> But it seems likely that this is bogus, and good addresses are being disabled (especially if this grows to 100% of subscribers!) >> Has anyone experienced a similar problem? > > > bounce_notify_owner_on_disable=yes so you should get a notice for each > disable containing a copy of the triggering DSN. What does it say? > Does it look legitimate? > > Also, what if anything do you see in Mailman's smtp-failure log? > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 13 01:12:36 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:12:36 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] many "Subscription disabled" messages after movinglist to new server In-Reply-To: <40489330-3D96-4A20-8A1A-782D9F6CFC7D@nasa.gov> References: <40489330-3D96-4A20-8A1A-782D9F6CFC7D@nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4B4D0FF4.5060504@msapiro.net> On 1/12/2010 3:38 PM, Andrew Watson wrote: > The bounce notices I get look legitimate. They typically include > something like: > > Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected address > Diagnostic code: smtp;550 >... User unknown In that case, they are probably real, legitimate bounces of bad addresses. The hard failures have probably all been disabled by now. > Mailman's smtp-failure log contains many instances of lines like this > (edited, vsadmin at mysite.com is the list > administrator) > > Jan 12 20:48:44 2010 (70977) Low level smtp error: Connection > unexpectedly closed, msgid: > > > Jan 12 20:48:45 2010 (70977) delivery to vsadmin at mysite.com > failed with code -1: Connection unexpectedly closed > > There are also a few like this: > > Jan 12 20:02:54 2010 (70977) Low level smtp error: (48, 'Address already > in use'), msgid: > > Jan 12 20:02:54 2010 (70977) delivery to visionlist-owner at mysite.com > failed with code -1: (48, 'Address already in use') > > > These log messages commenced on Jan 12 (today). If they only started today, I don't know what the issue might be. There is a bug in the Python email library that can cause problems if you have a lot of bad addresses. See . But that shouldn't be the issue here. I don't have a clue what the 'Address already in use' message means. Check your MTA's logs. Also see the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 13 01:19:11 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:19:11 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] many "Subscription disabled" messages after movinglist to new server In-Reply-To: <3B6607F0-9253-43F3-8DD3-8B07E303F822@nasa.gov> References: <3B6607F0-9253-43F3-8DD3-8B07E303F822@nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4B4D117F.8010608@msapiro.net> On 1/12/2010 4:07 PM, Andrew Watson wrote: > > Are the configuration data stored in a readable file? I could go back > to the old server and find out what bounce options I used there. If you still have the installation on the old server except for web access, you can do bin/config_list -o - LISTNAME There are a couple of possibilities. If the old server was Mailman 2.1.5, that release had bounce probes enabled by default. Thus, when an address bounced, it wasn't disabled immediately, but a VERPed prob was sent and the address wasn't disabled until the probe bounced. It the MTA wasn't handling the VERPed return address properly, no-one would ever get disabled. It's also possible that bounce_info_stale_after was too short. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dma at pern.co.uk Tue Jan 12 18:15:02 2010 From: dma at pern.co.uk (David Anderson) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:15:02 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to delete archives Message-ID: <20100112171502.268828b1@cove.dmamain.org.uk> I am trying to back up some mailman archives on a cPanel hosted website. I know your stance on cPanel, and quite understand it, but unfortunately I have to work in those constraints. I have got my provider to move all the archive files to an ftp area where I am trying to clear the message files. Archiving has now stopped working correctly - I think probably due to all the files being moved. What needs to be in the archive directory for things to work properly? I would like to provide the admin a script to enable this sort of thing to be done, but am a little lost as to the exact structure of the achive directory. Can I ask for help please? Regards David From kowalskM at cs.moravian.edu Tue Jan 12 19:23:18 2010 From: kowalskM at cs.moravian.edu (myron) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:23:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't display listinfo page Message-ID: <26DECEE6-33C1-44E0-8164-EE2BED82AE5C@cs.moravian.edu> I recently e-mailed the list about my web server crashing and having to move to a new machine. I thought I knew what was going on, but obviously not. I started a web sever on my mail server that also has the mailman directory. Everything is on one box, so I thought this should be easy. I changed mm_cfg.py to reflect the new DEFAULT_URL_HOST = I get the following error. There currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman mailing lists on ... Is there something else I need to change? --myron ================================= Myron Kowalski MoCoSIN Network/Systems Administrator Moravian College myron at cs.moravian.edu From RCannon at precisionit.com Tue Jan 12 19:28:51 2010 From: RCannon at precisionit.com (Robert Cannon) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:28:51 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Sending to newly created list Message-ID: Hello All, I am very new to the mailman system, I have recently taken over a client that uses this and has approx 10,000 email addresses in it. I have receive a request to create new list which I was able to successfully, and have added myself to the list and received the subscribe email. However when I send an email to the list I receive the error "User unknown in local recipient table ##". All other list are working fine its just the newly created one, any help you could provide me would be great. Thank you Robert Cannon | Network Engineer | Group 1 237 West 37th Street, 11th Fl | New York, NY 10018 Tel: (212) 812-2277 | Fax: (212) 412 - 9092 RCannon at precisionit.com | www.precisionit.com [cid:image001.jpg at 01CA938B.1E41B3C0] From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 13 01:37:20 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:37:20 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't display listinfo page In-Reply-To: <26DECEE6-33C1-44E0-8164-EE2BED82AE5C@cs.moravian.edu> Message-ID: myron wrote: > >I changed mm_cfg.py to reflect the new DEFAULT_URL_HOST >I get the following error. > >There currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman mailing lists on ... > >Is there something else I need to change? See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 13 01:47:27 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:47:27 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Sending to newly created list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B4D181F.2060901@msapiro.net> On 1/12/2010 10:28 AM, Robert Cannon wrote: > Hello All, I am very new to the mailman system, I have recently taken > over a client that uses this and has approx 10,000 email addresses in > it. I have receive a request to create new list which I was able to > successfully, and have added myself to the list and received the > subscribe email. However when I send an email to the list I receive > the error "User unknown in local recipient table ##". All other list > are working fine its just the newly created one, any help you could > provide me would be great. You need to install a set of aliases for your new list. If you created the list with bin/newlist, it should have reported the required aliases. If you created the list via the web, the required aliases were emailed to mailman-owner at ... which should have been delivered to the owner of the 'mailman' site list. This assumes that the default MTA='Manual' has not been overridden in mm_cfg.py. If it has been, then whatever programmatic process that handles aliases or delivery to Mailman without aliases is not working. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 13 02:02:43 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:02:43 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to delete archives In-Reply-To: <20100112171502.268828b1@cove.dmamain.org.uk> Message-ID: David Anderson wrote: > >What needs to be in the archive directory for things to work properly? An 'empty' list archive for a list named 'junk' looks like the following [mark at sbh16 ~]$ ls -ld mmv/archives/private/junk* drwxrwsr-x 2 mark mailman 4096 Jan 12 16:48 mmv/archives/private/junk drwxrwsr-x 2 mark mailman 4096 Jan 12 16:48 mmv/archives/private/junk.mbox [mark at sbh16 ~]$ ls -lAR mmv/archives/private/junk* mmv/archives/private/junk: total 4 -rw-rw-r-- 1 mark mailman 484 Jan 12 16:48 index.html mmv/archives/private/junk.mbox: total 0 [mark at sbh16 ~]$ i.e. two directories - archives/private/junk and archives/private/junk.mbox - both in mailman's group (owner not important) with permissions drwxrwsr-x and an index.html file archives/private/junk/index.html in mailman's group with permissions -rw-rw-r-- (contents not important, but normally a "no posts yet" message). >I would like to provide the admin a script to enable this sort of thing >to be done, but am a little lost as to the exact structure of the >achive directory. Can I ask for help please? Once posts are archived, there is an archives/private/junk.mbox/junk.mbox file which is a cumulative *nix mbox containing all archived posts and a hierarchy of directories and files in archives/private/junk/ containing the pipermail archive. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov Wed Jan 13 02:12:48 2010 From: andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov (Andrew Watson) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:12:48 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] many "Subscription disabled" messages after movinglist to new server In-Reply-To: <4B4D117F.8010608@msapiro.net> References: <3B6607F0-9253-43F3-8DD3-8B07E303F822@nasa.gov> <4B4D117F.8010608@msapiro.net> Message-ID: The old server had essentially the same bounce options as the new. It was mailman 2.1.5, and I see many probe messages in the bounce log. Maybe you are right about the VERPed probe. On Jan 12, 2010, at 4:19 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 1/12/2010 4:07 PM, Andrew Watson wrote: >> >> Are the configuration data stored in a readable file? I could go back >> to the old server and find out what bounce options I used there. > > > If you still have the installation on the old server except for web > access, you can do > > bin/config_list -o - LISTNAME > > There are a couple of possibilities. If the old server was Mailman > 2.1.5, that release had bounce probes enabled by default. Thus, when an > address bounced, it wasn't disabled immediately, but a VERPed prob was > sent and the address wasn't disabled until the probe bounced. It the MTA > wasn't handling the VERPed return address properly, no-one would ever > get disabled. > > It's also possible that bounce_info_stale_after was too short. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jan 13 02:13:12 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:13:12 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change configs for ALL lists? In-Reply-To: <4B4CC3B8.7090001@zone12.com> References: <1263266116.21040.73.camel@luggage> <4B4BF00C.30309@msapiro.net> <505C8F0D-6917-4D57-A789-53DA7A791B07@sun.com> <4B4CC3B8.7090001@zone12.com> Message-ID: At 12:47 PM 1/12/2010, Terri Oda wrote: >Elaine Ashton wrote: >>Well, what concerns me is that the spammers are going at these mass >>subscriptions via the web interface and it may become a game of >>whack-a-mole banning domains and IPs. Are there any plans to make >>the web form subscription more of a hurdle for spammers, e.g. captcha, etc? > >I'm not a big believer in captcha's (advances in tech have made a >lot of them trivially easy to in an automated way, making them >annoying to users for little gain) but it might be worth thinking >about a plug in architecture for this in mm3 in case something >better does come up, or so people can enjoy their placebos... If you decide to do captcha's, please make it optional -- or offer other alternatives. I have 150 lists, and thousands of blind and visually impaired users, including myself, and captcha's are the bane of our existence! Dave From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Jan 13 03:47:30 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 11:47:30 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to delete archives In-Reply-To: <20100112171502.268828b1@cove.dmamain.org.uk> References: <20100112171502.268828b1@cove.dmamain.org.uk> Message-ID: <87d41e3em5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> David Anderson writes: > I am trying to back up some mailman archives on a cPanel hosted website. > > I know your stance on cPanel, and quite understand it, but > unfortunately I have to work in those constraints. Note that the stance on cPanel is not that we *won't* support Mailman users on cPanel, it's that we usually *can't*. The point of cPanel is to ensure that if you can do it, you can do it easily by yourself, and if you can't do it, you can't do it *at all* by yourself, and neither can we -- all we can do is tell you to get in touch with your provider. Since you've already gotten in touch with your provider, the rest *is* within the competence of Mailman-Users to advise. Except ... It would be nice if your provider's admin would join the conversation here. Have you suggested that? He should be interested. After all, it's "his" host that is going to be running this script! From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 13 04:16:01 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:16:01 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] many "Subscription disabled" messages after movinglist to new server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Andrew Watson >The old server had essentially the same bounce options as the new. >It was mailman 2.1.5, and I see many probe messages in the bounce log. >Maybe you are right about the VERPed probe. If there weren't any "disabling due to probe bounce received" messages in the log, only "sending LISTNAME list probe to" messages, then the bounced probes weren't being properly returned to the list-bounces address, and members were never getting delivery disabled and never getting removed. Their scores just got incremented to threshold and were then reset when the probe was sent to start the process all over again. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From donsmile68 at gmail.com Wed Jan 13 10:05:19 2010 From: donsmile68 at gmail.com (Marie-Yvette INGABIRE) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:05:19 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella list settings! Message-ID: <8f295a581001130105h68dda03dpc7fa31de4dfe3521@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I am making umbrella list. but I gives an account to me that this umbrella list concern and is useful only for recalls of passwords at the end of the month. I made a list of distribution *X at maling... *In this list of distribution there are two other distribution liste, namely *Y at mailing...* and * Z at mailing...* I would like that, when a message is sent to the list of distribution *X at maling...*, softened or not, the members or subscribers of lists *Y at mailing...* and *Z at mailing...* receive the message directly. Is there any possibility? I tried to make it but when the moderator accepts a notification of a message sent to the parent list(*X at maling...)*, in object this marks " implicit Destination ". Kind regards, Marie Yvette Leguojeu From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 13 15:52:14 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 06:52:14 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella list settings! In-Reply-To: <8f295a581001130105h68dda03dpc7fa31de4dfe3521@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Marie-Yvette INGABIRE wrote: > >I am making umbrella list. but I gives an account to me that this umbrella >list concern and is useful only for recalls of passwords at the end of the >month. I think you are talking about the settings umbrella_list and umbrella_member_suffix. If the members of list-x are other lists such as list-y and list-z, you probably do not want administrative notices such as monthly password reminders or on-demand password reminders from list-x to be sent to the members of list-y and list-z. If this is the case, you set list-x's 'umbrella-list' to Yes and 'umbrella_member_suffix' to '-owner' and those notices go to list-y-owner and list-z-owner instead. However, if list-x also contains a combination of individual members and list members, you need to set list-x's umbrella_list to No, or individual members won't be able to receive password reminders. >I made a list of distribution *X at maling... *In this list of distribution >there are two other distribution liste, namely *Y at mailing...* and * >Z at mailing...* I would like that, when a message is sent to the list of >distribution *X at maling...*, softened or not, the members or subscribers of >lists *Y at mailing...* and *Z at mailing...* receive the message directly. Is >there any possibility? I tried to make it but when the moderator accepts a >notification of a message sent to the parent list(*X at maling...)*, in object >this marks " implicit Destination ". Go to the web admin Privacy options... -> Recipient filters page (in the French localization Options de confidentialit?... -> Filtres destinataire) for each of the *Y at mailing...* and *Z at mailing...* lists and either set require_explicit_destination to No or add the posting address of the *X at maling... * list to acceptable_aliases. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org Wed Jan 13 18:54:08 2010 From: Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org (Tim Van Dyne) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:54:08 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List members who are not moderated In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC6D8773@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> Is there a quick & easy way (preferably CLI) to just list all members who do *not* have their mod bit set? The same way that you can list members who have digest set. I've looked around a bit and there doesn't seem to be any discussion about this that I can find. -Tim- From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 13 20:05:57 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 11:05:57 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List members who are not moderated In-Reply-To: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC6D8773@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> Message-ID: Tim Van Dyne wrote: > >Is there a quick & easy way (preferably CLI) to just list all members >who do *not* have their mod bit set? The same way that you can list >members who have digest set. Well, there wasn't, but ... There is now a withlist script at (mirrored at ). This would probably be a good addition to list_members for MM 3. There was the mailman-subscribers.py script mentioned in the FAQ at which can be used to extract the membership along with their flags as a csv file which could then be sorted or selected on the mod flag, but this is awkward, plus it screen scrapes the web admin interface which is less than ideal for those who have CLI access. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Thu Jan 14 07:53:15 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:53:15 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding "subscribed" address in Welcome message ? Message-ID: Hi, Some people with multiple email address' get confused as to which one they used to subscribe. Is it possible to put that info in the body of the "Welcome to this list" email ? What would be the "code" I need for this please ? Using CPanel version 2.1.11.cp3 Regards, John. From b19141 at anl.gov Thu Jan 14 15:05:56 2010 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:05:56 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding "subscribed" address in Welcome message ? In-Reply-To: Mail from 'John Fitzsimons ' dated: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:53:15 +1100 Message-ID: <20100114140556.4C0EF175E9@britaine.cis.anl.gov> >Hi, > >Some people with multiple email address' get confused as to which >one they used to subscribe. Is it possible to put that info in the >body of the "Welcome to this list" email ? > >What would be the "code" I need for this please ? Using CPanel >version 2.1.11.cp3 > > >Regards, John. The e-mail address used in the subscription will appear in the RFC 5321 mail headers. The only problem is that most Mail User Agents hide these headers from the recipient. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 240, Room 5.B.8 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 14 16:25:29 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 07:25:29 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding "subscribed" address in Welcome message ? In-Reply-To: <20100114140556.4C0EF175E9@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Message-ID: Barry Finkel wrote: >> >>Some people with multiple email address' get confused as to which >>one they used to subscribe. Is it possible to put that info in the >>body of the "Welcome to this list" email ? >> >>What would be the "code" I need for this please ? Using CPanel >>version 2.1.11.cp3 >> >> >>Regards, John. > >The e-mail address used in the subscription will appear in the >RFC 5321 mail headers. The only problem is that most Mail User >Agents hide these headers from the recipient. Huh? RFC 5321 is the latest incarnation of the SMTP RFC. It discesses SMTP protocol, not message content. Perhaps you meant RFC 5322 which discusses the message format. However, the header in the list welcome that contains the subscribed address is the To: header which most MUAs do display (except maybe MS Outlook which may display the name and not the address). In any case, the OP asked for a way to put the subscribed address in the message body. Possibly because To: headers may get rewritten or not completely displayed. The answer is that %(user)s in the template (which even cPanel users can edit via the admin GUI) will be replaced with the user's email address. The complete list of available substitutions for the list welcome template is 'real_name' : The list's name 'host_name' : The list's email host name 'welcome' : The list's extra welcome message 'umbrella' : A special notice for members of umbrella lists 'emailaddr' : The list's posting address 'listinfo_url': The URL of the list's listinfo page 'optionsurl' : The URL of the members options page (which contains the members email address) 'password' : The member's password 'user' : The member's case preserved email address So, in fact, the member's email address is already in the body of the default welcome message, albeit as part of the options URL. Note that these substitutions only work in the template itself. They don't work in the 'welcome' text added to the template. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From david at dunivanrealtors.com Thu Jan 14 00:33:48 2010 From: david at dunivanrealtors.com (David Dunivan) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:33:48 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dunivan Realtors List Message-ID: <62CF4784A7654C90AAD056CBFD3644BF@LaptopDavid> Please help. I just sent out my 1st email marketing flyer through LIstserv and I am getting a lot of complaints that their is no Unsubscribe Button. Please advise me on how I can get this done immediately to my account. I did not see this option under the Admin. Page. This is very important. My account is under lists.dunivanrealtors.com Thank You, David Dunivan Administrator' David Dunvian Principal Broker From Giuseppe.Curto at leaderform.com Wed Jan 13 17:00:33 2010 From: Giuseppe.Curto at leaderform.com (giuseppe curto) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 17:00:33 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help on mass modifying Message-ID: <7153CB92-B03B-48FE-B7AE-B3261D190153@leaderform.com> Hello, my first post here. Sure it's possible, but I did not find the way so if someone can help me. I must start a new list with 7000 users. I have ready a text file wiht one-user-per-line. My problem is: how can I set as default, or change with a line command all users to 'non text mail' ? I suppose there is a more confortable way than cliking one by one al single users. But I'm unable to find the right stuff on google. Thanks in advance for any help Joe PS I have access to the shell if line command is needed From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Thu Jan 14 16:39:36 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:39:36 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dunivan Realtors List In-Reply-To: <62CF4784A7654C90AAD056CBFD3644BF@LaptopDavid> References: <62CF4784A7654C90AAD056CBFD3644BF@LaptopDavid> Message-ID: <20100114153936.GH3079@amyl.org.uk> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 06:33:48PM -0500, David Dunivan wrote: > Please help. I just sent out my 1st email marketing flyer > through LIstserv The listserv support pages are http://www.lsoft.com/resources/support.asp -- ``What lawyers call intellectual property is no more than theft from the public domain.'' (Andy Mueller-Maguhn) From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Thu Jan 14 17:07:09 2010 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:07:09 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dunivan Realtors List In-Reply-To: <62CF4784A7654C90AAD056CBFD3644BF@LaptopDavid> References: <62CF4784A7654C90AAD056CBFD3644BF@LaptopDavid> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jan 2010, David Dunivan wrote: > Please help. I just sent out my 1st email marketing flyer through > LIstserv and I am getting a lot of complaints that their is no > Unsubscribe Button. Please advise me on how I can get this done > immediately to my account. I did not see this option under the Admin. > Page. This is very important. > > My account is under lists.dunivanrealtors.com First, if you sent out a mass email marketing flyer and are getting lots of complaints, it sounds like you are probably a spammer. A well-managed mailing list, in general, had only subscribers who have opted-in and confirmed the opt-in. If people are immediately wanting to unsubscribe, it does not sound like it was confirmed opt-in. But if you're not a spammer, you are apparently at the wrong place. This mailing list is about Mailman. You asked about Listserv(tm) which is a "competing" mailing list manager. Now on the chance that you really are asking about Mailman and said Listserv because you think like way too many people that listserv is just a generic term for a mailing list manager rather than someone's trademarked brand name, Mailman just sends on what it is sent. If you want an unsunscribe button, you need to send your message as HTML and design it into the HTML. Mailman does send mailing list management headers in each message (always? or does that need to be turned on? I'm not sure) but that requires the reader to have an e-mail client that recognizes the headers and not all do. Also, this list is about the Mailman software itself. We have no access to the site running your list. You need to contact your site administrator about making chnages to your site. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 14 17:18:35 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:18:35 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help on mass modifying In-Reply-To: <7153CB92-B03B-48FE-B7AE-B3261D190153@leaderform.com> Message-ID: giuseppe curto wrote: > >I must start a new list with 7000 users. I have ready a text file wiht one-user-per-line. My problem is: how can I set as default, or change with a line command all users to 'non text mail' ? First, I think you misunderstand the meaning of the plain vs. MIME user option. This option only applies to the format of the digest that digest members receive. It has no meaning for non-digest members. If you want this setting to default to MIME, set Digest options -> mime_is_default_digest to MIME before adding the users. If you really want to set this to MIME for all users after the fact, see the script at and change the line mlist.setMemberOption(member, mm_cfg.DontReceiveDuplicates, 1) in that script to mlist.setMemberOption(member, mm_cfg.DisableMime, 0) On the other hand, if your issue is that you are sending HTML posts to the list and the non-digest members are receiving plain text, this is due to the list's content filtering settings and has nothing to do with plain vs. MIME. The default content filtering will remove HTML and send only the text/plain part from a multipart/alternative message. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From b.mooney at auckland.ac.nz Thu Jan 14 20:47:04 2010 From: b.mooney at auckland.ac.nz (Bernadette Mooney) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:47:04 +1300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change configs for ALL lists? In-Reply-To: <4B4BF00C.30309@msapiro.net> References: <1263266116.21040.73.camel@luggage> <4B4BF00C.30309@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <1263498424.15955.13.camel@luggage> On Mon, 2010-01-11 at 19:44 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 1/11/2010 7:15 PM, Bernadette Mooney wrote: > > > > The current question is: How can I change the configuration of ALL lists, to add a line like > > "ban_list = ['^[A-Za-z0-9._]+@[Nn]astymail\\.org' > > or > > "header_filter_rules = [('Subject:.*\\*\\*\\*SPAM\\*\\*\\*.*', 3, False)]" > > or > > add an extra address to the ban_list line? > > > > config_list? with_list? but how? > > > For the first two, see the FAQ at > > To add to the ban_list of all lists see > (mirrored at > ). > Thank you, Mark! The 'offending' domain is no longer blocked at the gateway, but the address has now been added to ban_list for all mailing lists. At least legitimate mail from legitimate users of that domain will be able to reach individual members of staff or students here. And the header_filter_rule to discard all mail marked as spam has been added to all the list configs, so that the notification messages no longer 'get up the nose' of the list owners. The ~/data directory and the ~/qfiles directory have never been so clean. :) -- BCNU..................B. Bernadette Mooney From johnf at net2000.com.au Fri Jan 15 00:16:58 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:16:58 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding "subscribed" address in Welcome message ? In-Reply-To: References: <20100114140556.4C0EF175E9@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Message-ID: <2u8vk5tsranjihkvop8jafuf3vd0tq4lbg@4ax.com> On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 07:25:29 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: Hi Mark, < snip > >In any case, the OP asked for a way to put the subscribed address in >the message body. Possibly because To: headers may get rewritten or >not completely displayed. I was thinking of the situation of re-direction. One could "subscribe" with eg. fred at work.com and have emails from that account re-directed to fred at home.com . Even if only after they leave work. I wanted their subscription address to be more "in their face" so that it would reduce confusion as to which email address they were subscribed with. >The answer is that %(user)s in the template (which even cPanel users >can edit via the admin GUI) will be replaced with the user's email >address. The complete list of available substitutions for the list >welcome template is > 'real_name' : The list's name > 'host_name' : The list's email host name > 'welcome' : The list's extra welcome message > 'umbrella' : A special notice for members of umbrella lists > 'emailaddr' : The list's posting address > 'listinfo_url': The URL of the list's listinfo page > 'optionsurl' : The URL of the members options page (which contains > the members email address) > 'password' : The member's password > 'user' : The member's case preserved email address >So, in fact, the member's email address is already in the body of the >default welcome message, albeit as part of the options URL. >Note that these substitutions only work in the template itself. They >don't work in the 'welcome' text added to the template. That is EXACTLY the info I wanted Mark. Thank you. Your help is very much appreciated. :-) Regards, John. From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Jan 15 03:25:07 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:25:07 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding "subscribed" address in Welcome message ? In-Reply-To: <2u8vk5tsranjihkvop8jafuf3vd0tq4lbg@4ax.com> References: <20100114140556.4C0EF175E9@britaine.cis.anl.gov> <2u8vk5tsranjihkvop8jafuf3vd0tq4lbg@4ax.com> Message-ID: <87hbqo14vw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> John Fitzsimons writes: > I was thinking of the situation of re-direction. One could "subscribe" > with eg. fred at work.com and have emails from that account re-directed > to fred at home.com . The "To" address doesn't get changed by any such service that I know of. Still, it's a real problem, since some MUAs will display a nickname for addresses in the contact list, and users don't necessarily connect to "oh I can look it up in the contact list". After all, it's "to me", and I know who I am. :-) > Even if only after they leave work. I wanted their subscription > address to be more "in their face" so that it would reduce > confusion as to which email address they were subscribed with. Hm. You should look at personalizing list delivery, which would allow you to insert a similar notice to the user's options page as a footer (or header) of the post. This may not be allowed by your host (it can increase the bandwidth used to deliver posts by a factor of 100 or more, although realistically a factor between 1 and 5 seems most likely), and you might not like it either (it will take a similar factor more time to deliver your posts). One last problem is that footers (and headers) don't mix well with HTML email. The notice that mailman-users adds is this: > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/stephen%40xemacs.org Some of this (eg, security policy and archives) may not apply to you, but notice the link to my options page in the last line. From barry at list.org Fri Jan 15 16:07:11 2010 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:07:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Logo Contest for 2010 Message-ID: <20100115100711.5e690a0a@freewill> Hello everybody! Our current GNU Mailman logos were designed by the Dragon De Monsyne many years ago. They have served us exceedingly well, but with the coming of Mailman 3, we've decided it's time our logos got a face lift. So we're opening up a new logo contest to the Mailman and GNU communities. We invite your creative and inspiring designs! Details of the contest and submission guidelines are available here: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/NewLogo Submissions will be open until February 28, 2010, and is open to everyone, so feel free to forward this announcement. Please contact the Mailman Steering Committee at mailman-cabal at python.org with any questions. Enjoy, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: not available URL: From matthieu.leorat at territorial.fr Fri Jan 15 14:20:52 2010 From: matthieu.leorat at territorial.fr (Leorat Matthieu) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:20:52 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator email validation Message-ID: <4B506BB4.50104@territorial.fr> Hi, I'm a french beginner with Mailman and I have just one question. It's about the moderator email validation. Moderator have to enter his password to validate a message by answering. I would know if it's possible to keep the email validation without password. Thanks, Matthieu From mrosen at planetree.org Thu Jan 14 17:12:54 2010 From: mrosen at planetree.org (Michael Rosen) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:12:54 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribed member still receives e-mails Message-ID: <7A3BA8958418D445A5559E186388124703D3E082@EXVBE011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> Good morning, We currently use the list server at http://mailman.listserve.com/listmanager/admin/affiliate-talk for our organization's members. One member who was deleted from the subscription list still receives e-mails, even though I cannot locate her e-mail address in the database (Susan.Kubert at va.gov). I don't see this issue on your FAQ page. Please advise, as soon as possible, how I can keep her from receiving e-mails from the distribution list. Thank you. Michael Rosen ~~~~ Michael Rosen Network Relationship Manager Planetree 130 Division Street Derby, CT 06418-1326 Phone: 203.732.1378 Fax: 203.612.3323 www.planetree.org P Help our environment - Do you really need to print this e-mail? If so, are you printing double-sided? From rguketlov at aol.com Thu Jan 14 19:31:41 2010 From: rguketlov at aol.com (rguketlov at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:31:41 EST Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject) Message-ID: <99b4.23e316ce.3880bd0d@aol.com> Hi I use your mailing list service through lunar pages, I am the admistrator and for some reason about a month ago some of the people on the list dont get every email. I went in and looked and they arent bounced what should i do. thanks Rosemary Guketlov _www.icsspotswood.org_ (http://www.icsspotswood.org) _icsexpress at icsspotswood.org_ (mailto:icsexpress at icsspotswood.org) From rohaniahnoor at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 16:37:23 2010 From: rohaniahnoor at gmail.com (Rohaniah Noor) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:37:23 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman enquiry Message-ID: sir . madam, i am using mailman in my domain of budaklaw.com for 6 months. the problem is now that i got warning from the web hosting company that my domain is sending spam just because i and my friends are sending email using mailman mailing list service. FYI, there are only about 45 - 50 email address in my mailing list. so, may i have your recommendation on how to settle this problem? i need to use mailing list. thank you -- Rohaniah Noor rohaniahnoor at gmail.com http://rohaniahnoor.blogspot.com From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 15 16:38:19 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:38:19 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator email validation In-Reply-To: <4B506BB4.50104@territorial.fr> Message-ID: Leorat Matthieu wrote: > >I'm a french beginner with Mailman and I have just one question. It's >about the moderator email validation. Moderator have to enter his >password to validate a message by answering. I would know if it's >possible to keep the email validation without password. No it is not possible. If it were, what would prevent the poster from approvong his own held message? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 15 16:51:39 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:51:39 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribed member still receives e-mails In-Reply-To: <7A3BA8958418D445A5559E186388124703D3E082@EXVBE011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> Message-ID: Michael Rosen wrote: > >We currently use the list server at >http://mailman.listserve.com/listmanager/admin/affiliate-talk for our >organization's members. One member who was deleted from the subscription >list still receives e-mails, even though I cannot locate her e-mail >address in the database (Susan.Kubert at va.gov). There are various possibilities. I note from the above page that this is Mailman version 2.1.10z3. I have no idea who produces this 'z3' package, but possibly it is broken in this respect. The much more likely possibility is she is subscribed with some other address that forwards to Susan.Kubert at va.gov. If you examine all the Received: headers in a post she receives from the list, you may be able to figure out what this address is. You will certainly see the domain of the Mail Exchange server that Mailman sent to. If that is not sufficient you can wait until (hopefully) she receives a monthly password reminder. Also, what membership database? The one at ? And how was she removed? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brian at emwd.com Fri Jan 15 16:53:26 2010 From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:53:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <99b4.23e316ce.3880bd0d@aol.com> References: <99b4.23e316ce.3880bd0d@aol.com> Message-ID: <01d101ca95fa$e1960b70$a4c22250$@com> > -----Original Message----- > From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman- > users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of rguketlov at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:32 PM > To: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject) > > Hi > > I use your mailing list service through lunar pages, I am the > admistrator > and for some reason about a month ago some of the people on the list > dont > get every email. I went in and looked and they arent bounced what > should i > do. > > thanks > Rosemary Guketlov > _www.icsspotswood.org_ (http://www.icsspotswood.org) > _icsexpress at icsspotswood.org_ (mailto:icsexpress at icsspotswood.org) You will probably need to contact Lunarpage's technical support to see what is going on. They should be able to assist you. You will need to provide them your list email address, the subject line of your the last non-received post, its date/time stamp, and the e-mail addresses of those who did not receive the message. My experience is this tends to end up being an issue on the list member's end, i.e. either due to an overzealous spam filter, full mailbox, etc. Brian EMWD.com Mailmanhosting.com From brian at emwd.com Fri Jan 15 16:57:55 2010 From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:57:55 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman enquiry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01d201ca95fb$81d41410$857c3c30$@com> > -----Original Message----- > From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman- > users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Rohaniah Noor > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:37 AM > To: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman enquiry > > sir . madam, > > i am using mailman in my domain of budaklaw.com for 6 months. > the problem is now that i got warning from the web hosting company that > my > domain is sending spam just because i and my friends are sending email > using > mailman mailing list service. > FYI, there are only about 45 - 50 email address in my mailing list. > > so, may i have your recommendation on how to settle this problem? > i need to use mailing list. > > thank you > -- > Rohaniah Noor > rohaniahnoor at gmail.com > http://rohaniahnoor.blogspot.com > ------------------------------------------------------ What reasons are they giving for this allegation? Are folks on your list reporting you as a spammer? I know this tends to happen with AOL and Yahoo! users. Are you using a double-opt in subscription policy with your list and its subscribers? Brian EMWD.com Mailmanhosting.com From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 15 16:58:44 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:58:44 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not all mail delivered [was:(no subject)] In-Reply-To: <99b4.23e316ce.3880bd0d@aol.com> Message-ID: rguketlov at aol.com wrote: > >I use your mailing list service through lunar pages, I am the admistrator >and for some reason about a month ago some of the people on the list dont >get every email. I went in and looked and they arent bounced what should i >do. Do they get some messages? Are the affected users all in the same domain(s)? There is nothing we at mailman-users at python.org can do to help with this. You can contact the host at lunar pages. They may have more information from their mail server logs, or Mailman's bounce log, but probably not. See the FAQ at for some additional information. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 15 17:04:29 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:04:29 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman enquiry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rohaniah Noor wrote: > >i am using mailman in my domain of budaklaw.com for 6 months. >the problem is now that i got warning from the web hosting company that my >domain is sending spam just because i and my friends are sending email using >mailman mailing list service. >FYI, there are only about 45 - 50 email address in my mailing list. > >so, may i have your recommendation on how to settle this problem? >i need to use mailing list. This is something you will have to work out with your web hosting company. There's nothing that we at mailman-users at python.org can do to help with this. Ask them for more specific information. I.e. what specific mails are identified as spam and by whom. Is this their Mailman installation or yours? If yours, you might consider not sending mail via the web host. The FAQ at may have some more help. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From wgoodman at jcvi.org Fri Jan 15 17:24:42 2010 From: wgoodman at jcvi.org (Goodman, William) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:24:42 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? Message-ID: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E1A3@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> Hello Mark, I had a user send an email to one of our lists (approx. 700 email address), he states that some users received them about (450) and other did not. Is there a email address limitation or member limitation? If so where would the configuration be? Or where (beside the mail server) could I look to see who didn't receive the email? Bill From kremels at kreme.com Fri Jan 15 18:07:51 2010 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:07:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? In-Reply-To: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E1A3@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> References: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E1A3@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> Message-ID: On 15-Jan-2010, at 09:24, Goodman, William wrote: > I had a user send an email to one of our lists (approx. 700 email > address), he states that some users received them about (450) and other did not. Is there a email address limitation or member limitation? Not in Mailman. There are many reasons that a mail may not be received by some members of a list. 1) Spam filters on their machines that trap the mail as spam 2) limitations on your sending server on how many emails you can send to how many people in what amount of time 3) Your server is on an RBL 4) THEIR server is on an RBL 5) They DID receive the mail, they just can't find it 6) DNS issues (yours or theirs) There are probably other things. -- Gods don't like people not doing much work. People who aren't busy all the time might start to think. --Small Gods From wgoodman at jcvi.org Fri Jan 15 18:13:21 2010 From: wgoodman at jcvi.org (Goodman, William) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:13:21 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? In-Reply-To: References: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E1A3@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> Message-ID: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E1B1@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> Thanks, That's what I thought you just confirmed it. Bill -----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-bounces+wgoodman=jcvi.org at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+wgoodman=jcvi.org at python.org] On Behalf Of LuKreme Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:08 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? On 15-Jan-2010, at 09:24, Goodman, William wrote: > I had a user send an email to one of our lists (approx. 700 email > address), he states that some users received them about (450) and other did not. Is there a email address limitation or member limitation? Not in Mailman. There are many reasons that a mail may not be received by some members of a list. 1) Spam filters on their machines that trap the mail as spam 2) limitations on your sending server on how many emails you can send to how many people in what amount of time 3) Your server is on an RBL 4) THEIR server is on an RBL 5) They DID receive the mail, they just can't find it 6) DNS issues (yours or theirs) There are probably other things. -- Gods don't like people not doing much work. People who aren't busy all the time might start to think. --Small Gods ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/wgoodman%40jcvi.org From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 15 18:27:06 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:27:06 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: LuKreme wrote: >On 15-Jan-2010, at 09:24, Goodman, William wrote: >> I had a user send an email to one of our lists (approx. 700 email >> address), he states that some users received them about (450) and other did not. Is there a email address limitation or member limitation? > > >Not in Mailman. > >There are many reasons that a mail may not be received by some members of a list. > >1) Spam filters on their machines that trap the mail as spam >2) limitations on your sending server on how many emails you can send to how many people in what amount of time >3) Your server is on an RBL >4) THEIR server is on an RBL >5) They DID receive the mail, they just can't find it >6) DNS issues (yours or theirs) > >There are probably other things. In addition to the above, check Mailman's smtp-failure log if you can. The 450 number (and exactly how can he know that?) suggests that possibly list delivery was chunked with the default SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500 and only one chunk was accepted by the MTA. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From wgoodman at jcvi.org Fri Jan 15 18:35:40 2010 From: wgoodman at jcvi.org (Goodman, William) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:35:40 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E1C0@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> Interesting... I also manage the mail servers, we use postfix with Amavid, ClamAV and Spamassassian. I know this is a mailman list but, is that (SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500) a postfix mail server configuration? Bill -----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-bounces+wgoodman=jcvi.org at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+wgoodman=jcvi.org at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:27 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? LuKreme wrote: >On 15-Jan-2010, at 09:24, Goodman, William wrote: >> I had a user send an email to one of our lists (approx. 700 email >> address), he states that some users received them about (450) and other did not. Is there a email address limitation or member limitation? > > >Not in Mailman. > >There are many reasons that a mail may not be received by some members of a list. > >1) Spam filters on their machines that trap the mail as spam >2) limitations on your sending server on how many emails you can send to how many people in what amount of time >3) Your server is on an RBL >4) THEIR server is on an RBL >5) They DID receive the mail, they just can't find it >6) DNS issues (yours or theirs) > >There are probably other things. In addition to the above, check Mailman's smtp-failure log if you can. The 450 number (and exactly how can he know that?) suggests that possibly list delivery was chunked with the default SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500 and only one chunk was accepted by the MTA. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/wgoodman%40jcvi.org From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 15 19:19:15 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:19:15 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? In-Reply-To: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E1C0@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> Message-ID: Goodman, William wrote: > >I also manage the mail servers, we use postfix with Amavid, ClamAV and >Spamassassian. I know >this is a mailman list but, is that (SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500) a postfix >mail server configuration? It is a Mailman configuration setting which may or may not mean anything depending on other Mailman site and list configuration settings such as VERP and personalization. It is in no way a limit on what can be sent from a list. It only limits the maximum number of RCPT TO addresses in a single SMTP transaction between Mailman and the outgoing MTA. It is the other side of Postfix's smtpd_recipient_limit. Mailman's SMTP_MAX_RCPTS should always be less than postfix's smtpd_recipient_limit or there may be unnecessary Postfix refusals and Mailman retries, but otherwise, these things in no way limit the number of total recipients to a message. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Fri Jan 15 19:27:39 2010 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:27:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? In-Reply-To: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E1C0@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> References: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E1C0@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Goodman, William wrote: > Interesting... > > I also manage the mail servers, we use postfix with Amavid, ClamAV and > Spamassassian. I know > this is a mailman list but, is that (SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500) a postfix > mail server configuration? Since you're also managing the mail servers, you should be able to look in the postfix logs to see what's happening. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com From wgoodman at jcvi.org Fri Jan 15 21:43:37 2010 From: wgoodman at jcvi.org (Goodman, William) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:43:37 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? In-Reply-To: References: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E1C0@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> Message-ID: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E228@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> I see things like below to users I know didn't receive the email. So you first assessment is correct "they did receive it but they just can't find it. to=, relay=mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179]:25, delay=8.3, delays=0.02/4.4/0.67/3.3, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179] said: 451 ... Requested mail action not taken: mailbox unavailable (in reply to RCPT TO command)) Jan 13 15:25:00 my-mailserver postfix/smtp[28262]: B405E2D858F Thanks for all your help... Bill -----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-bounces+wgoodman=jcvi.org at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+wgoodman=jcvi.org at python.org] On Behalf Of Larry Stone Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:28 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Goodman, William wrote: > Interesting... > > I also manage the mail servers, we use postfix with Amavid, ClamAV and > Spamassassian. I know > this is a mailman list but, is that (SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500) a postfix > mail server configuration? Since you're also managing the mail servers, you should be able to look in the postfix logs to see what's happening. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/wgoodman%40jcvi.org From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Fri Jan 15 22:17:06 2010 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:17:06 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? In-Reply-To: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E228@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> References: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E1C0@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E228@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Goodman, William wrote: > I see things like below to users I know didn't receive the email. So you > first assessment is correct > "they did receive it but they just can't find it. Uh no, the message below is a deferral. Postfix keeps retrying until it times out at which point is bounced. How long until it times out is a site configurable length of time (default five days, I think). > to=, relay=mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179]:25, > delay=8.3, delays=0.02/4.4/0.67/3.3, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host > mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179] said: 451 ... > Requested mail action not taken: mailbox unavailable (in reply to RCPT > TO command)) Jan 13 15:25:00 my-mailserver postfix/smtp[28262]: > B405E2D858F -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com From wgoodman at jcvi.org Fri Jan 15 22:20:59 2010 From: wgoodman at jcvi.org (Goodman, William) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:20:59 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? In-Reply-To: References: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E1C0@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E228@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> Message-ID: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E23B@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> We have a very busy mail server so I set it to 4 hours, when I used the default we had a mailq of over 200 everyday which slowed our performance. So it will keep trying to send it for 4 hours then it gets bounced. -----Original Message----- From: Larry Stone [mailto:lstone19 at stonejongleux.com] Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 4:17 PM To: Goodman, William Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Goodman, William wrote: > I see things like below to users I know didn't receive the email. So you > first assessment is correct > "they did receive it but they just can't find it. Uh no, the message below is a deferral. Postfix keeps retrying until it times out at which point is bounced. How long until it times out is a site configurable length of time (default five days, I think). > to=, relay=mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179]:25, > delay=8.3, delays=0.02/4.4/0.67/3.3, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host > mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179] said: 451 ... > Requested mail action not taken: mailbox unavailable (in reply to RCPT > TO command)) Jan 13 15:25:00 my-mailserver postfix/smtp[28262]: > B405E2D858F -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com From john at cibolo.com Sat Jan 16 02:46:15 2010 From: john at cibolo.com (John Griessen) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:46:15 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest attachments Message-ID: <4B511A67.8000309@cibolo.com> One of my digest list members wishes they could see photo attachments in some clicky way using links in the digest email, but all I've figured out is to set archiving to on, and tell them to look there. They won't jump through that many hoops, and still whine occasionally... Is there any way to have photo MIME attachments linked to in a digest email? thanks, John Griessen From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 16 03:11:11 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:11:11 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest attachments In-Reply-To: <4B511A67.8000309@cibolo.com> Message-ID: John Griessen wrote: >One of my digest list members wishes they could see photo attachments in some >clicky way using links in the digest email, but all I've figured out >is to set archiving to on, and tell them to look there. They won't >jump through that many hoops, and still whine occasionally... > >Is there any way to have photo MIME attachments linked to in a digest email? I don't understand. If your content filtering rules (or lack thereof) allow photo attachments, and the regular list members receive them, then those who subscribe to the digest in MIME form will receive the same messages in their digest that the regular members receive, and those who subscribe in plain text form will see messages in their digests which have the non-plain text attachments removed and replaced by hyperlinks to the attachment stored in the archive. This latter process is referred to in Mailman as scrubbing and occurs whether or not the list is archiving posts. The process of scrubbing for the digest is identical to the process of scrubbing for the archive, so if the archived messages have hyperlinks to the scrubbed attachments, the plain digest does too, and the MIME digest has the attachments in the digest. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From deisner at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 00:59:55 2010 From: deisner at gmail.com (David Eisner) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:59:55 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Puzzle Regarding Sender Header Message-ID: <5ef8ba411001151559m43c4cb88sfe2a4629652be4a0@mail.gmail.com> I just moved a Mailman setup from one server to another. This is Mailman 2.1.12, with one modification, described in this message:[1] Basically, I change the Sender header in SMTPDirect.py so it comes from the -admin address rather than the -bounce address: # msg['Sender'] = envsender msg['Sender'] = mlist.getListAddress('admin') The new server has two network interfaces. Each interface has its own IP. The second interface has a single IP, call it 127.0.0.2, with two hostnames mapped to it: intranet.foo.org. A 127.0.0.2 lists.foo.org A 127.0.0.2 The reverse DNS mapping for 127.0.0.2 points to intranet.foo.org. I've set the host_name for all the lists to be 'lists.foo.org'. I also set DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST to 'lists.foo.org'. I also ran fix_url for all the lists. Everything is working fine, except for one problem: the Sender: header in messages is 'listname-admin at intranet.foo.org' rather than the desired 'listname-admin at lists.foo.org'. I added this to mm_cfg.py, but it didn't help: DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.foo.org' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.foo.org' add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) The weird thing is that if I use withlist, it tells me the list address is 'lists.foo.org' (I've obfuscated the hostname consistent with the rest of this message): $ withlist -l test Loading list test (locked) The variable `m' is the test MailList instance >>> m.getListAddress('admin') 'test-admin at lists.foo.org' >>> m.getListAddress() 'test at lists.foo.org' >>> I undid my patch as a sanity check, but it does what I'd expect: the Sender: header is now "test-bounces at intranet.foo.org" rather than "test-admin at intranet.foo.org", but not "test-bounces at lists.foo.org". Any ideas? Thanks. -David [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-March/065568.html -- David Eisner http://cradle.brokenglass.com From dnewman at networktest.com Fri Jan 15 21:09:32 2010 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:09:32 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] host.domain.tld vs. domain.tld Message-ID: <4B50CB7C.4020702@networktest.com> Mailman 2.1.13, postfix 2.5.6, MySQL 5.0.77, OpenBSD 4.5 After migrating to new hardware, Mailman lists are working OK using the form @mail.domain.tld, but mail sent to @domain.tld bounces with an "User unknown in virtual mailbox table" error. This is a problem since some users expect @domain.tld to work. So, I'm looking for help in getting either of these forms working: @mail.domain.tld @domain.tld This error is odd in that the form @domain.tld worked on the old server and I am using the exact same postfix and Mailman config files as well as the same MySQL databases. Odder still is that I don't see any reason why @domain.tld should have worked on the old system. On both servers, the Mailman setup is for mail.domain.tld. There's nothing about these errors in the Mailman logs. As near as I can tell, all Postfix and SQL setup is the same, as are file permissions. I've played around with adding 'domain.tld' to add_virtualhost and POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, and also followed this and other threads: http://is.gd/6kB4Y but no joy. Thanks in advance for clues on getting both addresses working. dn from mm_cfg.py: MTA = 'Postfix' MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman' DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.domain.tld' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mail.domain.tld' # Clear the Defaults.py VIRTUAL_HOSTS entry VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) add_virtualhost('mail.domain.tld', 'mail.domain.tld') DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/' PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s' IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/' POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias' POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap' POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'mail.domain.tld', 'mail.domain.tld' ] VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes from main.cf: alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases # the above is all one line in the config file alias_database = hash:/etc/mail/aliases unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550 virtual_alias_domains = virtual_alias_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/forwardings.cf proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/email2email.cf hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman sample stanza from /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman: # STANZA START: test # CREATED: Wed Jan 13 15:48:46 2010 test at mail.domain.tld test test-admin at mail.domain.tld test-admin test-bounces at mail.domain.tld test-bounces test-confirm at mail.domain.tld test-confirm test-join at mail.domain.tld test-join test-leave at mail.domain.tld test-leave test-owner at mail.domain.tld test-owner test-request at mail.domain.tld test-request test-subscribe at mail.domain.tld test-subscribe test-unsubscribe at mail.domain.tld test-unsubscribe # STANZA END: test From mdtaylor at illinois.edu Sat Jan 16 00:17:27 2010 From: mdtaylor at illinois.edu (Taylor, Marc) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:17:27 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, postfix and procmail Message-ID: <87D63F6D93DB14418272BF5859FFF2C9072BFECC@BI-ADMEX.beckman-admin.uiuc.edu> Good evening, I have a question that I am not quite sure how to pose but here it goes: I have an Ubuntu server running Mailman 2.1.9, Postfix 2.5.1 and procmail 3.22. I have gotten mailman and postfix to work correctly using the postfix-to-mailman.py file. How does one integrate procmail into this mixture with the postfix-to-mailman.py file? Is it possible to do this or does one have to configure postfix and mailman differently in order to have procmail do some filtering? Thanks in advance. Marc Taylor From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 16 04:23:44 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:23:44 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Puzzle Regarding Sender Header In-Reply-To: <5ef8ba411001151559m43c4cb88sfe2a4629652be4a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: David Eisner wrote: > >The reverse DNS mapping for 127.0.0.2 points to intranet.foo.org. > >I've set the host_name for all the lists to be 'lists.foo.org'. I >also set DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST to 'lists.foo.org'. >I also ran fix_url for all the lists. > >Everything is working fine, except for one problem: the Sender: header >in messages is 'listname-admin at intranet.foo.org' rather than the >desired 'listname-admin at lists.foo.org'. > >I added this to mm_cfg.py, but it didn't help: > > DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.foo.org' > DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.foo.org' > add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) And you ran fix_url after this? >The weird thing is that if I use withlist, it tells me the list >address is 'lists.foo.org' (I've obfuscated the hostname consistent >with the rest of this message): > >$ withlist -l test >Loading list test (locked) >The variable `m' is the test MailList instance >>>> m.getListAddress('admin') >'test-admin at lists.foo.org' >>>> m.getListAddress() >'test at lists.foo.org' >>>> > >I undid my patch as a sanity check, but it does what I'd expect: the >Sender: header is now "test-bounces at intranet.foo.org" rather than >"test-admin at intranet.foo.org", but not "test-bounces at lists.foo.org". > >Any ideas? Thanks. Your MTA is rewriting the domain in the Sender: header. The FAQ at might be relevant. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 16 04:33:36 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:33:36 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] host.domain.tld vs. domain.tld In-Reply-To: <4B50CB7C.4020702@networktest.com> Message-ID: David Newman wrote: > >After migrating to new hardware, Mailman lists are working OK using the >form @mail.domain.tld, but mail sent to @domain.tld >bounces with an "User unknown in virtual mailbox table" error. > >This is a problem since some users expect @domain.tld to work. >So, I'm looking for help in getting either of these forms working: > >@mail.domain.tld >@domain.tld > >This error is odd in that the form @domain.tld worked on the >old server and I am using the exact same postfix and Mailman config >files as well as the same MySQL databases. My guess is that on the old server, domain.tld was in Postfix's mydestination so that address at domain.tld was a local address and only referred to alias_maps and not virtual_alias_maps, whereas on the new server domain.tld is a virtual_mailbox_domain, thus postfix is looking in virtual_mailbox_maps for address at domain.tld and not finding it.. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 16 04:43:56 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:43:56 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, postfix and procmail In-Reply-To: <87D63F6D93DB14418272BF5859FFF2C9072BFECC@BI-ADMEX.beckman-admin.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Taylor, Marc wrote: > >I have an Ubuntu server running Mailman 2.1.9, Postfix 2.5.1 and >procmail 3.22. I have gotten mailman and postfix to work correctly >using the postfix-to-mailman.py file. > >How does one integrate procmail into this mixture with the >postfix-to-mailman.py file? Is it possible to do this or does one have >to configure postfix and mailman differently in order to have procmail >do some filtering? I understand that postfix_to_mailman.py is packaged with the Debian/Ubuntu Mailman package, but it is 3rd party software, not supported (officially at least) by the GNU Mailman project. That said, one possibility might be to modify the mailman transport in /etc/postfix/master.cf to invoke procmail instead of postfix_to_mailman.py and then have procmail invoke postfix_to_mailman.py for the mail it wants to deliver. Another possibility is to modify postfix_to_mailman.py to invoje procmail instead of Mailman's mail wrapper and then have procmail invoke Mailman's wrapper to post the mail. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dnewman at networktest.com Sat Jan 16 06:44:12 2010 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 21:44:12 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] host.domain.tld vs. domain.tld In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B51522C.6090008@networktest.com> On 1/15/10 7:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > David Newman wrote: >> After migrating to new hardware, Mailman lists are working OK using the >> form @mail.domain.tld, but mail sent to @domain.tld >> bounces with an "User unknown in virtual mailbox table" error. >> >> This is a problem since some users expect @domain.tld to work. >> So, I'm looking for help in getting either of these forms working: >> >> @mail.domain.tld >> @domain.tld >> >> This error is odd in that the form @domain.tld worked on the >> old server and I am using the exact same postfix and Mailman config >> files as well as the same MySQL databases. > > > My guess is that on the old server, domain.tld was in Postfix's > mydestination so that address at domain.tld was a local address and only > referred to alias_maps and not virtual_alias_maps, whereas on the new > server domain.tld is a virtual_mailbox_domain, thus postfix is looking > in virtual_mailbox_maps for address at domain.tld and not finding it.. Curiouser and curiouser. First, thanks, this provided a clue for a fix. Second, both old and new servers used the same postfix main.cf and master.cf files. Both main.cf files had this line: mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost which shouldn't have worked since (1) $mydomain wasn't defined anywhere and (2) domain.tld wasn't invoked and (3) mail never was addressed to localhost.$mydomain. On the new server I changed this to: mydomain = domain.tld mydestination = $myhostname, $mydomain, localhost and now list mail goes to either @mail.domain.tld or domain.tld, as desired. Puzzling, but thanks again. dn From stephen at xemacs.org Sat Jan 16 07:57:30 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:57:30 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? In-Reply-To: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E23B@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> References: <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E1C0@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E228@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> <7F0AA25C9B1706448E8B73DFDD109B310846E23B@EXCHANGE.TIGR.ORG> Message-ID: <87bpgutu3p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Goodman, William writes: > We have a very busy mail server so I set it to 4 hours, when I used the > default we had a mailq of over 200 everyday which slowed our > performance. > So it will keep trying to send it for 4 hours then it gets bounced. Sure, but the main point is that the user can't find it in his/her mailbox because that mailbox is "unavailable". > > to=, relay=mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179]:25, > > delay=8.3, delays=0.02/4.4/0.67/3.3, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host > > mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179] said: 451 ... > > Requested mail action not taken: mailbox unavailable (in reply to RCPT > > TO command)) Jan 13 15:25:00 my-mailserver postfix/smtp[28262]: > > B405E2D858F This looks like greylisting to me. (Maybe broken; state of the art greylisters tell you how long to wait before resending.) Another possibility, especially if "somewhere" == aol or hotmail, is a tarpit. They think you may be spamming their members, and they're forcing you to slow down. I'll give you one scenario you might think about that connects a couple of the symptoms you report. 1. Some corresponding hosts have decided you might be a spammer, and are rate limiting you by temporarily failing delivery to any mailbox. 2. The queue built up not because of load on your server, but because those hosts will only let you send to one address every 10 minutes or something like that. 3. When you cut the retry period to 4 hours, you simply arranged to bounce mail that would eventually have succeeded in due time, but you *must* pay that "due time" to succeed at those destinations. If it's indeed one or more of the big services, they usually have an AUP for lists. You can register with them, provide bona fides (such DKIM headers in your outgoing posts), and magically things will start flowing well. For smaller hosts, you might just negotiate directly with the postmaster. Another possibility is that you might want to just accept the slowdown, but to reduce resources used by your host, instead of doing the first retry very soon, you could wait several hours. From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 16 16:32:29 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 07:32:29 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sibling List Problem In-Reply-To: <4B51BF61.5070502@kisc.edu.np> Message-ID: Ryan Jameson (KISC) wrote: > >On our cPanel version of mailman I'm trying to make a list with several >siblings. I called it parent at example.com and under >//regular_include_lists// put: > >child1 at example.com >child2 at example.com >child3 at example.com >child4 at example.com This is yet one more example of cPanel's patches screwing things up. If they actually knew what they were doing, they could make it work as documented, but they don't know or care. In cPanel regular_include_lists and regular_exclude_lists are broken. For regular_include_lists used in lieu of an umbrella as you are doing, I think you can use the cPanel munged listname; e.g., child1_example.com at example.com etc. and it will work as long as the list address is not in To: or Cc:. I.e., if the names as I indicate are in regular_include_lists and you mail parent at example.com, I think it will work, but if you mail parent at example.com with Cc: child1 at example.com the members of child1 at example.com will receive duplicates. For similar reasons, I think regular_exclude_lists won't work at all in cPanel. I have anonymized your list names and copied this reply to mailman-users, because I think this needs to be there, so please let us know if this works as I think it will. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 16 16:55:48 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 07:55:48 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] host.domain.tld vs. domain.tld In-Reply-To: <4B51522C.6090008@networktest.com> Message-ID: David Newman wrote: >On 1/15/10 7:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> My guess is that on the old server, domain.tld was in Postfix's >> mydestination so that address at domain.tld was a local address and only >> referred to alias_maps and not virtual_alias_maps, whereas on the new >> server domain.tld is a virtual_mailbox_domain, thus postfix is looking >> in virtual_mailbox_maps for address at domain.tld and not finding it.. > >Curiouser and curiouser. > >First, thanks, this provided a clue for a fix. > >Second, both old and new servers used the same postfix main.cf and >master.cf files. Both main.cf files had this line: > >mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost > >which shouldn't have worked since (1) $mydomain wasn't defined anywhere >and (2) domain.tld wasn't invoked and (3) mail never was addressed to >localhost.$mydomain. mydomain defaults to myhostname minus the first component. E.g., myhostname = mail.example.com => mydomain = example.com. myhostname has a default which is the value returned by gethostname() or `uname -n` >On the new server I changed this to: > >mydomain = domain.tld >mydestination = $myhostname, $mydomain, localhost You still probably want localhost at local_domain in mydestination however local_domain is determined because sooner or later some program somewhere on your server will mail to that domain. >and now list mail goes to either @mail.domain.tld or >domain.tld, as desired. > >Puzzling, but thanks again. Was myhostname different on the old server? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 16 18:24:59 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:24:59 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sibling List Problem [cPanel] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark Sapiro wrote: > >In cPanel regular_include_lists and regular_exclude_lists are broken. >For regular_include_lists used in lieu of an umbrella as you are >doing, I think you can use the cPanel munged listname; e.g., > >child1_example.com at example.com >etc. > >and it will work as long as the list address is not in To: or Cc:. >I.e., if the names as I indicate are in regular_include_lists and you >mail parent at example.com, I think it will work, but if you mail >parent at example.com with Cc: child1 at example.com the members of >child1 at example.com will receive duplicates. > The OP reported back off list that the above workaround does work for regular_include_lists in cPanel. Does anyone know how to get cPanel's attention so they might fix this? I have in the past posted an issue at http://forums.cpanel.net/ and as far as I can tell, my post was completely ignored. If anyone on this list is an actual cPanel customer or hosting partner (not just a user), perhaps we can work together to submit some support tickets. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dnewman at networktest.com Sat Jan 16 18:48:15 2010 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:48:15 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] host.domain.tld vs. domain.tld In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B51FBDF.7080803@networktest.com> On 1/16/10 7:55 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > David Newman wrote: > >> On 1/15/10 7:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> My guess is that on the old server, domain.tld was in Postfix's >>> mydestination so that address at domain.tld was a local address and only >>> referred to alias_maps and not virtual_alias_maps, whereas on the new >>> server domain.tld is a virtual_mailbox_domain, thus postfix is looking >>> in virtual_mailbox_maps for address at domain.tld and not finding it.. >> Curiouser and curiouser. >> >> First, thanks, this provided a clue for a fix. >> >> Second, both old and new servers used the same postfix main.cf and >> master.cf files. Both main.cf files had this line: >> >> mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost >> >> which shouldn't have worked since (1) $mydomain wasn't defined anywhere >> and (2) domain.tld wasn't invoked and (3) mail never was addressed to >> localhost.$mydomain. > > > mydomain defaults to myhostname minus the first component. E.g., > > myhostname = mail.example.com => mydomain = example.com. > > myhostname has a default which is the value returned by gethostname() > or `uname -n` OK, thanks. The 'myhostname' variable is not defined in main.cf, but per the above it sounds as though it doesn't have to be. > > >> On the new server I changed this to: >> >> mydomain = domain.tld >> mydestination = $myhostname, $mydomain, localhost > > > You still probably want localhost at local_domain in mydestination however > local_domain is determined because sooner or later some program > somewhere on your server will mail to that domain. For clarification, which form do I want in mydestination? localhost at local_domain (as you wrote) or localhost.$mydomain (as formerly in main.cf) I think you mean the latter, but just checking. > > >> and now list mail goes to either @mail.domain.tld or >> domain.tld, as desired. >> >> Puzzling, but thanks again. > > > Was myhostname different on the old server? No. Both old and new systems use the same hostname. dn > From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 16 20:11:26 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 11:11:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] host.domain.tld vs. domain.tld In-Reply-To: <4B51FBDF.7080803@networktest.com> Message-ID: David Newman wrote: > >For clarification, which form do I want in mydestination? > >localhost at local_domain (as you wrote) > >or > >localhost.$mydomain (as formerly in main.cf) > >I think you mean the latter, but just checking. What I actually suggest is reverting to your original main.cf (i.e. remove the "mydomain = domain.tld" that you added and restore "mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost" except just add domain.tld to mydestination as in mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost domain.tld >> Was myhostname different on the old server? > >No. Both old and new systems use the same hostname. As reported by "uname -n"? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Sat Jan 16 20:31:12 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:31:12 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sibling List Problem [cPanel] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100116193112.GE3079@amyl.org.uk> On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 09:24:59AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Does anyone know how to get cPanel's attention so they might fix this? I've resisted saying it for some time, but here goes. "Change the licence to one that requires external modifications to be disclosed." That way 'we' might have a clue what they're doing. It needn't be restrospective, MM3 might be an ideal opportunity. -- The trouble with the rat race is that, even if you win, you're still a rat From dnewman at networktest.com Sat Jan 16 23:57:14 2010 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:57:14 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] host.domain.tld vs. domain.tld In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B52444A.7080005@networktest.com> On 1/16/10 11:11 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > David Newman wrote: >> For clarification, which form do I want in mydestination? >> >> localhost at local_domain (as you wrote) >> >> or >> >> localhost.$mydomain (as formerly in main.cf) >> >> I think you mean the latter, but just checking. > > > What I actually suggest is reverting to your original main.cf (i.e. > remove the "mydomain = domain.tld" that you added and restore > "mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost" except > just add domain.tld to mydestination as in > > mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost > domain.tld OK, will do. I forget postfix syntax for lists, but if this all were on one line, there'd be a comma between "localhost" and "domain.tld", yes? > > >>> Was myhostname different on the old server? >> No. Both old and new systems use the same hostname. > > > As reported by "uname -n"? > Yes. I moved all Postfix and Mailman (and Dovecot and MySQL) configs from the old server to the new, and only changed a DNS A record to point to the new machine. dn From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 17 00:12:28 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:12:28 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] host.domain.tld vs. domain.tld In-Reply-To: <4B52444A.7080005@networktest.com> Message-ID: David Newman wrote: >On 1/16/10 11:11 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost >> domain.tld > >OK, will do. I forget postfix syntax for lists, but if this all were on >one line, there'd be a comma between "localhost" and "domain.tld", yes? It doesn't matter. Either comma or whitespace or comma+whitespace can delimit items in a list and lines that begin with whitespace are continuations. >>>> Was myhostname different on the old server? >>> No. Both old and new systems use the same hostname. >> >> >> As reported by "uname -n"? >> > >Yes. I moved all Postfix and Mailman (and Dovecot and MySQL) configs >from the old server to the new, and only changed a DNS A record to point >to the new machine. Then I don't understand why either domain worked before. You could try the Postfix list if you care. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Sun Jan 17 09:36:56 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 17:36:56 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sibling List Problem [cPanel] In-Reply-To: <20100116193112.GE3079@amyl.org.uk> References: <20100116193112.GE3079@amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: <873a25t9ef.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Adam McGreggor writes: > "Change the licence to one that requires external modifications to > be disclosed." > It needn't be restrospective, MM3 might be an ideal opportunity. Look at the GNU Affero GPL and see if that does what you want. I don't think anything stronger than that would fly (and personally I favor X11 or new BSD licenses, as long as we're rooting around for worms :-). IIRC, we also don't have much choice in the matter; too much of the code we use is FSF-owned, and if so, I doubt we can get anything that forces authors to publish modifications. The best we can do is copyleft (done, we're already GPL) + Affero (where deployment of software where users can interact with it is equated to distribution of the software, so users can demand sources). We'll still need users willing to piss off cPanel and their ISPs by invoking their GPL/Affero rights. From cwieland at uci.edu Sun Jan 17 16:38:38 2010 From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 07:38:38 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/shunt Message-ID: <3B0CE585-7B1D-4941-BF54-8FF785C9DF78@uci.edu> I do not understand how thinks end up here. I thought shunting was done before the message went to the archive but this particular list has no archive. Can someone help me understand why this was shunted? Does that mean it wasn't sent to the list? Con Wieland University of California at Irvine ~mailman/bin/dumpdb ./ 1263615579.8123469+01710ea356e0b7ebc47902b9d7adb839f7e82aa1.pck [----- start pickle file -----] <----- start object 1 -----> From bvlai at uci.edu Fri Jan 15 20:19:39 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mc-niebla at department-lists.uci.edu Delivered-To: mc-niebla at department-lists.uci.edu Received: from mta5.service.uci.edu (mta5.service.uci.edu [128.200.1.225]) by department-lists.nacs.uci.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86B79BBF30 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon at localhost) by mta5.service.uci.edu (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.6) id o0G4JdRT006546 for mc-niebla at department-lists.uci.edu.xyzzy; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.es.uci.edu (smtp1.es.uci.edu [128.200.80.34]) by mta5.service.uci.edu (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o0G4JcOJ006514 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from webmail.uci.edu (webmail8.es.uci.edu [128.200.80.188]) by smtp1.es.uci.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o0G4JcjZ031856 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:19:38 -0800 Received: from 128.200.83.112 (SquirrelMail authenticated user bvlai) by webmail.uci.edu with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:19:38 -0800 Message-ID: <4d3af2b8a57c1e60a015817de448b7df.squirrel at webmail.uci.edu> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:19:38 -0800 From: "Belyn V. Lai" To: mc-niebla at uci.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:25:44 -0800 Subject: [MC-Niebla] Rate your RA :) X-BeenThere: mc-niebla at department-lists.uci.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Mesa Court Niebla Hall Residents List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 04:19:39 -0000 Hey Residents, I hope you're doing well! I'm sorry to spam you all with e-mails, but I just wanted to remind you to fill out the online survey. You will all get to grade Mesa Court and the RA. It's anonymous, so please please be honest. This will allow me to improve in areas that need to be improved. :) Here is the link: https://eee.uci.edu/survey/2010mcsurvey-RA Thank you, everyone! Best, -- Belyn V. Lai Resident Advisor - Niebla Residence Hall REACH Peer Facilitator Economics and Public Health Policy University of California, Irvine <----- start object 2 -----> { '_parsemsg': False, 'adminapproved': 1, 'approved': 1, 'lang': 'en', 'listname': 'mc-niebla', 'original_sender': 'bvlai at uci.edu', 'origsubj': 'Rate your RA :)', 'pipeline': ['ToUsenet', 'AfterDelivery', 'Acknowledge', 'ToOutgoing'], 'received_time': 1263615579.8123469, 'recips': [ 'JFWAGNER at uci.edu', 'MBOLAJI at uci.edu', 'CTOYOTA at uci.edu', 'KGNGUYEN at uci.edu', 'JULISAV at uci.edu', 'MEHRINGC at uci.edu', 'VKY at uci.edu', 'VOST at uci.edu', 'MJVILLEG at uci.edu', 'KSHUANG at uci.edu', 'BVLAI at uci.edu', 'SHUEYABU at uci.edu', 'CJARMSTR at uci.edu', 'MAITHIP at uci.edu', 'MSAVIDGE at uci.edu', 'ASHLEYCL at uci.edu', 'ACHANDY at uci.edu', 'LBACALTO at uci.edu', 'ATORABI at uci.edu', 'ALLISORL at uci.edu', 'SALE at uci.edu', 'ZWADOOD at uci.edu', 'JHAMADY at uci.edu', 'JOHNHO at uci.edu', 'DEZAMORA at uci.edu', 'JLIN38 at uci.edu', 'JONATHJ at uci.edu', 'TKILROY at uci.edu', 'BARBOSAJ at uci.edu', 'DEARJ at uci.edu', 'RTAKADA at uci.edu', 'THWU at uci.edu', 'JESSICCC at uci.edu', 'BRIANNAS at uci.edu', 'PARKKY at uci.edu', 'HHNG at uci.edu', 'PPOTIVES at uci.edu', 'RSENORES at uci.edu', 'YOSHINAE at uci.edu', 'TSOONTHO at uci.edu', 'JSLEEP at uci.edu', 'GSARANGE at uci.edu', 'JJTAN at uci.edu', 'DTOROSIA at uci.edu', 'MDOSAL at uci.edu', 'LDELROSA at uci.edu', 'JDELGAD1 at uci.edu', 'LEELJ at uci.edu', 'TKHANI at uci.edu', 'MURTHYR at uci.edu', 'ACOSTANT at uci.edu', 'JKIM154 at uci.edu', 'KWINTERM at uci.edu', 'VTTRINH at uci.edu', 'STEPHAHK at uci.edu', 'EACEDILL at uci.edu', 'HHJUN at uci.edu', 'TSHIH1 at uci.edu', 'MYONOCRU at uci.edu', 'LANN1 at uci.edu', 'AHOURIAN at uci.edu', 'PHASAMA at uci.edu', 'WANGA1 at uci.edu', 'KUOE1 at uci.edu', 'MARISELV at uci.edu', 'JSOLTAN at uci.edu', 'YKIM38 at uci.edu', 'LCGRAY at uci.edu', 'MILLERMC at uci.edu', 'CWLIM at uci.edu', 'PKAFI at uci.edu', 'TORUNYAC at uci.edu', 'SHALING at uci.edu', 'TIMOTHTC at uci.edu', 'SKADDIS at uci.edu', 'ZBAQAI at uci.edu', 'KMARKOWS at uci.edu', 'ASABA at uci.edu', 'BMATAMOR at uci.edu'], 'rejection_notice': 'Your message was deemed inappropriate by the moderator.', 'sender': 'bvlai at uci.edu', 'stripped_subject': , 'tolist': 1, 'version': 3, 'whichq': '/opt/nsp/mailman/qfiles/archive'} [----- end pickle file -----] From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 17 17:04:59 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 08:04:59 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/shunt In-Reply-To: <3B0CE585-7B1D-4941-BF54-8FF785C9DF78@uci.edu> Message-ID: Con Wieland wrote: > >I do not understand how thinks end up here. I thought shunting was >done before the message went to the archive but this particular list >has no archive. Can someone help me understand why this was shunted? >Does that mean it wasn't sent to the list? Shunting occurs whenever any of Mailman's 8 queue runners encounters an unanticipated exception. It can occur during archiving by ArchRunner, in which case it may only affect the archive, during delivery by OutgoingRunner, in which case it affects only delivery, during processing by IncomingRunner, in which case it affects lots depending on where in the incoming process it occurred, and so forth. There is always an entry in Mailman's error log corresponding to the shunted message, unless perhaps the original problem involves logging, which gives the exception and a traceback and which is required to fully understand what happened. > > ~mailman/bin/dumpdb ./ >1263615579.8123469+01710ea356e0b7ebc47902b9d7adb839f7e82aa1.pck >[----- start pickle file -----] ><----- start object 1 -----> > From bvlai at uci.edu Fri Jan 15 20:19:39 2010 [...] ><----- start object 2 -----> >{ '_parsemsg': False, > 'adminapproved': 1, > 'approved': 1, > 'lang': 'en', > 'listname': 'mc-niebla', > 'original_sender': 'bvlai at uci.edu', > 'origsubj': 'Rate your RA :)', > 'pipeline': ['ToUsenet', 'AfterDelivery', 'Acknowledge', >'ToOutgoing'], > 'received_time': 1263615579.8123469, > 'recips': [...], > 'rejection_notice': 'Your message was deemed inappropriate by the >moderator.', > 'sender': 'bvlai at uci.edu', > 'stripped_subject': , > 'tolist': 1, > 'version': 3, > 'whichq': '/opt/nsp/mailman/qfiles/archive'} >[----- end pickle file -----] I can tell from the above metadata that this exception occurred in ArchRunner because of 'whichq', that it was a list post from a moderated member, approved by a moderator. I can't tell what the exception was or why it occurred without the error log information. Assuming there were no other shuntings of this message, it was delivered to the recipients. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Sun Jan 17 17:32:04 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 01:32:04 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/shunt In-Reply-To: <3B0CE585-7B1D-4941-BF54-8FF785C9DF78@uci.edu> References: <3B0CE585-7B1D-4941-BF54-8FF785C9DF78@uci.edu> Message-ID: <87iqb066bf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Con Wieland writes: > I do not understand how thinks end up here. I thought shunting was > done before the message went to the archive but this particular list > has no archive. Can someone help me understand why this was shunted? > Does that mean it wasn't sent to the list? Yes, it means it was not sent to the list. IIRC, a message is shunted when Mailman detects an error condition that it cannot handle. It is removed from the regular flow of traffic (thus "shunt"), and placed in a separate queue for the admin to handle. It has no specific connection to archiving, but if the message causes an error in Mailman, it's probably not appropriate for distribution or archiving, so this happens before archiving. A typical cause for shunting is when the message is malformed (illegal characters in header fields, missing separators for attachments, etc). I didn't see anything like that in the message you enclosed, but there may be other reasons for shunts that I've never run into. The only other thing I can think of is that messages held in the moderation interface for the site admin to deal with might end up in the shunt "queue". (It's not really a queue since Mailman will never process something there until the admin unshunts it manually.) The message does show an indication that the moderator rejected it. From barry at python.org Sun Jan 17 23:38:41 2010 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 17:38:41 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sibling List Problem [cPanel] In-Reply-To: <873a25t9ef.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20100116193112.GE3079@amyl.org.uk> <873a25t9ef.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <71EF2F8D-CBEE-4C70-997C-8411D9F6198F@python.org> On Jan 17, 2010, at 3:36 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > We'll still need users willing to piss off cPanel and their ISPs by > invoking their GPL/Affero rights. I don't think switching licenses is feasible. MM3 is GPLv3. I'd much rather try to get cPanel to engage more with the Mailman community. I've recently made contact with some folks there, so let's hope that that leads to better interactions between us. -Barry From cwieland at uci.edu Mon Jan 18 00:08:56 2010 From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 15:08:56 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/shunt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6FB3BA60-C02C-4894-80FC-7F53D1A9AD94@uci.edu> thanks Mark! it was a file permission error: Jan 15 18:54:54 2010 (8602) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] Permission den ied: '/opt/nsp/mailman/archives/private/mc-niebla/index.html' con On Jan 17, 2010, at 8:04 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Con Wieland wrote: >> >> I do not understand how thinks end up here. I thought shunting was >> done before the message went to the archive but this particular list >> has no archive. Can someone help me understand why this was shunted? >> Does that mean it wasn't sent to the list? > > > Shunting occurs whenever any of Mailman's 8 queue runners encounters > an > unanticipated exception. It can occur during archiving by ArchRunner, > in which case it may only affect the archive, during delivery by > OutgoingRunner, in which case it affects only delivery, during > processing by IncomingRunner, in which case it affects lots depending > on where in the incoming process it occurred, and so forth. > > There is always an entry in Mailman's error log corresponding to the > shunted message, unless perhaps the original problem involves logging, > which gives the exception and a traceback and which is required to > fully understand what happened. > > >> >> ~mailman/bin/dumpdb ./ >> 1263615579.8123469+01710ea356e0b7ebc47902b9d7adb839f7e82aa1.pck >> [----- start pickle file -----] >> <----- start object 1 -----> >> From bvlai at uci.edu Fri Jan 15 20:19:39 2010 > [...] >> <----- start object 2 -----> >> { '_parsemsg': False, >> 'adminapproved': 1, >> 'approved': 1, >> 'lang': 'en', >> 'listname': 'mc-niebla', >> 'original_sender': 'bvlai at uci.edu', >> 'origsubj': 'Rate your RA :)', >> 'pipeline': ['ToUsenet', 'AfterDelivery', 'Acknowledge', >> 'ToOutgoing'], >> 'received_time': 1263615579.8123469, >> 'recips': [...], >> 'rejection_notice': 'Your message was deemed inappropriate by the >> moderator.', >> 'sender': 'bvlai at uci.edu', >> 'stripped_subject': , >> 'tolist': 1, >> 'version': 3, >> 'whichq': '/opt/nsp/mailman/qfiles/archive'} >> [----- end pickle file -----] > > > I can tell from the above metadata that this exception occurred in > ArchRunner because of 'whichq', that it was a list post from a > moderated member, approved by a moderator. > > I can't tell what the exception was or why it occurred without the > error log information. > > > Assuming there were no other shuntings of this message, it was > delivered to the recipients. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov Mon Jan 18 22:53:23 2010 From: andrew.b.watson at nasa.gov (Andrew Watson) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:53:23 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] reset bounce history Message-ID: <45D5E048-8EFB-460E-8C06-1F0E3AE7E566@nasa.gov> Friends, For reasons too lengthy to explain, many of my subscribers have been disabled due to excessive bounces. Is there a way to re-enable all list members, and reset their bounce history? I don't even see a way to do this manually for individual subscribers through the admin interface. Regards, Andrew From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 18 23:11:28 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 14:11:28 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] reset bounce history In-Reply-To: <45D5E048-8EFB-460E-8C06-1F0E3AE7E566@nasa.gov> Message-ID: Andrew Watson wrote: > >Is there a way to re-enable all list members, and reset their bounce history? See (mirrored at ). >I don't even see a way to do this manually for individual subscribers through the admin interface. Uncheck the nomail box in the Membership List. (Enabling delivery clears the bounce information.) -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From barry at list.org Tue Jan 19 13:46:57 2010 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 07:46:57 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED GNU Mailman 3.0 alpha 5 (Distant Early Warning) Message-ID: <20100119074657.5f8c59a9@freewill> Hello everyone, welcome to 2010 and another Mailman 3 alpha release. I'm happy to announce Mailman 3.0 alpha 5. New in this release are additional REST API methods for subscribing and unsubscribing email addresses to mailing lists, and for listing all members of all mailing lists. Mailman also properly handles the -join, -leave, and -confirm email commands and sub-addresses (-subscribe and -unsubscribe are aliases for -join and -leave). A few more command line scripts have been renamed, a 'devmode' setting has been added, and Mailman now searches for its configuration file using this search order: -C config command line argument $MAILMAN_CONFIG_FILE environment variable ./mailman.cfg ~/.mailman.cfg /etc/mailman.cfg As always, you can download the tarball from the Cheeseshop or Launchpad: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailman https://launchpad.net/mailman Documentation is available here: http://packages.python.org/mailman Enjoy, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: not available URL: From johnf at net2000.com.au Tue Jan 19 15:07:45 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 01:07:45 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? Message-ID: I am hoping that someone here has an account with Gmane. This is what I did. Doing beta testing. I posted to my newsgroup from an address that is NOT on my mailing list. I then got the Gmane "Authorization required " email which starts.. This is a non-public mailing list, which means that you have to subscribe to the list to post to it...... Knowing I wasn't subscribed with that address I "replied". To see what would happen. Then I got the next Gmane email... "You are now authorized to post to the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx newsgroup." etc. I shouldn't have got that second email, or had my newsgroup post forwarded to the newsgroup. Can anyone here suggest where the problem may be please ? As well as to suggest a way to fix it please ? The list was originally setup as a "confirm" subscription list but is now a "Require approval" list. This is what the subscription page says... Subscribe to xxxxxxxxx by filling out the following form. This is a closed list, which means your subscription will be held for approval. You will be notified of the list moderator's decision by email. So it "appears" to be setup correctly. Can anyone here help me with this please ? Regards, John. From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Jan 19 16:57:33 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 00:57:33 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> John Fitzsimons writes: > Then I got the next Gmane email... > > "You are now authorized to post to the > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx newsgroup." etc. > > I shouldn't have got that second email, or had my newsgroup post > forwarded to the newsgroup. > Can anyone here suggest where the problem may be please ? List membership is easy to spoof anyway. The only way to control traffic to your list is to moderate it. > As well as to suggest a way to fix it please ? Moderate the GMane subscription. > So it "appears" to be setup correctly. > > Can anyone here help me with this please ? GMane has a bad reputation around here for not respecting the wishes of list owners. It's very convenient for your users, but if you allow GMane to gateway to your list, you are at their mercy. I don't have strong anti-GMane feelings myself; I consider it a valuable service to my lists. From barry at list.org Tue Jan 19 16:58:17 2010 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 10:58:17 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-i18n] RELEASED GNU Mailman 3.0 alpha 5 (Distant Early Warning) In-Reply-To: References: <20100119074657.5f8c59a9@freewill> Message-ID: <20100119105817.2fd69a4b@freewill> On Jan 19, 2010, at 04:17 PM, Marcos wrote: >Must be the Asturian language in the version 3? :) >Can you confirm if is it an error, please? >Thanks very much! There is currently only English in Mailman 3. We'll begin to do translations on Launchpad, but I haven't hooked all that up yet. It's on my list. ;) -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: not available URL: From deisner at gmail.com Tue Jan 19 18:12:46 2010 From: deisner at gmail.com (David Eisner) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 12:12:46 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Puzzle Regarding Sender Header In-Reply-To: References: <5ef8ba411001151559m43c4cb88sfe2a4629652be4a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5ef8ba411001190912u57201fc8w81656d8caa1e6e05@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Your MTA is rewriting the domain in the Sender: header. The FAQ at > might be relevant. This puts me on the right track: Sendmail is definitely rewriting the headers. I verified this by sending a message from the server (no mailman involved), and it rewrite the header. The FAQ isn't entirely relevant, as no CNAME is involved (lists.foo.org is a full-fledged A record), but it's clearly a sendmail config issue. Thanks for your help. -David From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Tue Jan 19 23:28:00 2010 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:28:00 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List information templates - offer of help Message-ID: <1263940080.7499.161.camel@vishnu.fmp.com> I just did a bit of work on the English listinfo.html template for one of my lists (Mailman 2.1.12). It's been a while since I worked on one of these, but I note that the HTML is a terrible mess, and years out of date with current standards and best practice for HTML composition. This may work in most browsers, but make editing the document a PITA. * Indentation, which is supposed to aid with tag matching for human editors, is rather inconsistent (to put it mildly ;-) * Modern HTML documents should have a declaration, which isn't present. * The
    tag is used to generate a section indent. Modern HTML uses a style. * The case of tags and attribute names is inconsistent and difficult to follow. Modern usage, consistent with XHTML, requires all tags and attributes to be lower case. Even for HTML 4.01 transitional, it would be a good idea to make the case of tags match throughout the document. * Form tags are crossed with table tags. This is, I believe, out of spec, and "results may vary". * There are a number of other HTML usage irregularities which should be corrected, such as the deprecated use of the

    tag without a matching

    end tag. Would it be helpful if I were to work on cleaning up and modernizing this document and submit it to the Mailman devs? I do HTML composition and authorship professionally and do this kind of thing every day or so. Or perhaps a reworking of the document is already in the pipeline .... I could only do the English version, since this is the only language I speak. Additionally, it seems that mailing lists have come into common use by and for people with little computer experience, and especially for distribution lists, choices such as those associated with subscriber lists and digests are irrelevant and potentially off-putting to these folks, and it should be possible to present a list info form with only a description of the list, plus the options of subscribing, unsubscribing and contacting the list owner. For perhaps 90% of the lists out there, I'd guess that these are all that are needed. One more note. I note that replacement tokens in this document are delimited with angle brackets, much as are HTML tags. Would it not be better to use some other delimiter such as curly-braces or square brackets, as do other HTML templating systems? -- Lindsay Haisley | "Never expect the people who caused a problem FMP Computer Services | to solve it." - Albert Einstein 512-259-1190 | http://www.fmp.com | From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 19 23:58:53 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:58:53 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List information templates - offer of help In-Reply-To: <1263940080.7499.161.camel@vishnu.fmp.com> Message-ID: Lindsay Haisley wrote: >I just did a bit of work on the English listinfo.html template for one >of my lists (Mailman 2.1.12). It's been a while since I worked on one >of these, but I note that the HTML is a terrible mess, and years out of >date with current standards and best practice for HTML composition. >This may work in most browsers, but make editing the document a PITA. [...] >Would it be helpful if I were to work on cleaning up and modernizing >this document and submit it to the Mailman devs? I do HTML composition >and authorship professionally and do this kind of thing every day or so. >Or perhaps a reworking of the document is already in the pipeline .... Mailman 2.2 was intended to have a new web interface, but that release is officially dead in favor of concentrating development on Mailman 3. The web interface and templates for Mailman 2.1 will not be changed except perhaps for minor tweaking. We would welcome your help on the web interface for MM 3. A new interface will be built from the ground up. Perhaps Barry can suggest some ways for you to be involved. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From barry at list.org Wed Jan 20 00:47:19 2010 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 18:47:19 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List information templates - offer of help In-Reply-To: References: <1263940080.7499.161.camel@vishnu.fmp.com> Message-ID: <20100119184719.4c4fbc80@freewill> On Jan 19, 2010, at 02:58 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >We would welcome your help on the web interface for MM 3. A new >interface will be built from the ground up. Perhaps Barry can suggest >some ways for you to be involved. Mark's exactly right. Lindsay is too! ;) I'd say the first thing to do is to join mailman-developers. Today or tomorrow I should be sending an email to kick off the new Mailman 3 web ui effort. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: not available URL: From johnf at net2000.com.au Wed Jan 20 01:14:00 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:14:00 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 00:57:33 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >John Fitzsimons writes: Hi Stephen, > > Then I got the next Gmane email... > > "You are now authorized to post to the > > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx newsgroup." etc. > > I shouldn't have got that second email, or had my newsgroup post > > forwarded to the newsgroup. > > Can anyone here suggest where the problem may be please ? >List membership is easy to spoof anyway. Umm. I was beginning to wonder about that. I am familiar with usenet spoofing but hadn't thought deeply enough about that situation in email. :-( If I understand you correctly then anyone can post to any unmoderated emailing list by simply spoofing someone who is authorised to post ? >The only way to control traffic to your list is to moderate it. Okay, of course that is quite impractical. I cannot be around to "authorise" posts 24 hours a day. :-( I am now beginning to see one of the reasons why those abominations called web boards are so popular. > > As well as to suggest a way to fix it please ? >Moderate the GMane subscription. Okay, that however would pretty much kill the mailing list. If someone posted while I was asleep then they would have to wait hours for my "okay". > > So it "appears" to be setup correctly. > > Can anyone here help me with this please ? >GMane has a bad reputation around here for not respecting the wishes >of list owners. It's very convenient for your users, but if you allow >GMane to gateway to your list, you are at their mercy. Unfortunately, like the majority of internet users who have limited finances, I have no choice. They are the only people in the world, that I know of, who enable people to have a free NNTP server access. >I don't have strong anti-GMane feelings myself; I consider it a >valuable service to my lists. Agreed. Unless you have money, and/or are a unix expert with root access somewhere, your choices for private newsgroups other than Gmane are zero. It is a pity that nobody in the open source community is interested in creating an NNTP server that someone, who isn't a unix expert, could install on a "hosted" web site. :-( Thank you for your feedback. Regards, John. From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Jan 20 03:48:03 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:48:03 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87bpgph4po.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> John Fitzsimons writes: > >List membership is easy to spoof anyway. > > Umm. I was beginning to wonder about that. I am familiar with usenet > spoofing but hadn't thought deeply enough about that situation in > email. :-( > > If I understand you correctly then anyone can post to any unmoderated > emailing list by simply spoofing someone who is authorised to post ? Yes. There are ways that authentication could be made stronger, but if you allow posting via GMane, you're pretty much done in. > >The only way to control traffic to your list is to moderate it. > > Okay, of course that is quite impractical. I wouldn't go so far as to say "of course" in general. There may be other ways to do it. For example my lists are moderated on a round the clock basis using the device of one moderator in Japan, one in Germany, and one in California. Such convenience is unlikely to be available to you, but perhaps there are trusted members who keep odd hours, etc. Be creative! > > > As well as to suggest a way to fix it please ? > > >Moderate the GMane subscription. > > Okay, that however would pretty much kill the mailing list. If someone > posted while I was asleep then they would have to wait hours for my > "okay". You'd have to get Mark or Barry to comment (and you supply a copy of the GMane test post as it arrived at Mailman, it's in the mbox file), but I suspect that the reason that this works as it does is the "Sender" check. So as long as your users always appear in From, you could disable the Sender check and moderate GMane. You'd still be subject to member spoofing, so you'd have to do spam and virus filtering on the front end (it's worth great effort on your part to doit in the incoming MTA). > It is a pity that nobody in the open source community is interested in > creating an NNTP server that someone, who isn't a unix expert, could > install on a "hosted" web site. :-( It's not about the NNTP server or package installation and configuration. Any GNU/Linux distro makes that easy enough. It's about the hosting services. This is a job for cPanel, not for the newsserver developers or Mailman developers. :-( From barry at list.org Wed Jan 20 04:23:17 2010 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:23:17 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20100119222317.5457f0da@freewill> On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:14 AM, John Fitzsimons wrote: >It is a pity that nobody in the open source community is interested in >creating an NNTP server that someone, who isn't a unix expert, could >install on a "hosted" web site. :-( I wouldn't say no one is interested, but there doesn't seem to be the resources to make it happen. I like Gmane personally, but I really want Mailman 3 to have an optional NNTP server vending messages from its message store. I actually don't think it's that hard, it'll just take some engineering. My plan is to use the NNTP server in Twisted as the core network service, but I'm open to suggestions. Come on over to mailman-developers if you want to help out. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: not available URL: From johnf at net2000.com.au Wed Jan 20 04:36:52 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:36:52 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <1arcl5pqn9flfndso0jf5f0ms47272b5mo@4ax.com> On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 00:57:33 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >John Fitzsimons writes: < snip > > > I shouldn't have got that second email, or had my newsgroup post > > forwarded to the newsgroup. > > Can anyone here suggest where the problem may be please ? >List membership is easy to spoof anyway. The only way to control >traffic to your list is to moderate it. > > As well as to suggest a way to fix it please ? >Moderate the GMane subscription. < snip > Does anyone here know what actually goes to Mailman from Gmane ? (1) Is it simply an email, with Gmane as the sender ? With no mention of the newsgroup poster in any of the headers ? OR (2) Is there anything contained in any of the headers from Gmane that refers to the newsgroup poster ? I know some of you unix guys are pretty smart. Has anyone been able to see/grep these headers to see what they say please ? The reason I ask is because couldn't I potentially block all posts from Gmane ? Then in my Privacy options - accept_these_nonmembers add the names of "authorised" subscribers ? The "accept_these_nonmembers" in CPanel appears to allow regexp filtering so the subscriber info could be anywhere in the "address". [Also what exactly is the "address" Mailman is talking about here ? The From: line ? Or all the headers ?] Any comments on any/all of the above appreciated. Regards, John. From johnf at net2000.com.au Wed Jan 20 05:11:25 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:11:25 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <20100119222317.5457f0da@freewill> References: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20100119222317.5457f0da@freewill> Message-ID: <54vcl5h3cd8eikfukrg2v89djv8pqcgnpu@4ax.com> On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:23:17 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: >On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:14 AM, John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Barry, >>It is a pity that nobody in the open source community is interested in >>creating an NNTP server that someone, who isn't a unix expert, could >>install on a "hosted" web site. :-( >I wouldn't say no one is interested, but there doesn't seem to be the >resources to make it happen. Yes, but there are "resources" for people to create web forums. "Resources" for people to create emailers. "Resources" for people to create bloggs etc. > I like Gmane personally, but I really want >Mailman 3 to have an optional NNTP server vending messages from its message >store. If you mean that Mailman could provide NNTP access to it's message store then that would be great !!! This sort of thing HAS been done by others. A combined database that can have it's messages accessed as web forum posts, emails, news posts etc. The huge advantage of this approach is that all forums are updated together. No need to poll one forum to update to another. Also, only one DB is needed. Instead of potentially three, or more. The "Conversant" people call all this "Internet groupware". > I actually don't think it's that hard, it'll just take some >engineering. My plan is to use the NNTP server in Twisted as the core network >service, but I'm open to suggestions. Get started yesterday ? :-) >Come on over to mailman-developers if you want to help out. I am very happy to help out. I have been a beta tester for a number of freeware, and commercial, programs over the years. I also have some experience of news (proxy servers). I have also contributed to public, and private, newsgroup servers for more than ten years now. However, I am not a unix expert and I do not have root access to a unix server. I have subscribed to mailman-developers but haven't noticed any threads on NNTP access to the Mailman DB. So, unfortunately, I think my "contribution" may be limited to encouragement and suggestions/ideas. :-( Regards, John. From cpz at tuunq.com Wed Jan 20 05:23:08 2010 From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 20:23:08 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <54vcl5h3cd8eikfukrg2v89djv8pqcgnpu@4ax.com> References: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp><20100119222317.5457f0da@freewill> <54vcl5h3cd8eikfukrg2v89djv8pqcgnpu@4ax.com> Message-ID: <4B56852C.6030201@tuunq.com> On 1/19/2010 8:11 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote: > If you mean that Mailman could provide NNTP access to it's message > store then that would be great !!! Here's the catch- mailman is a mailing list manager (or remailer, if you prefer), not a message storage system, so it doesn't -have- a persistent message store. There may be a list archive, but that isn't something that would be easily accessible on a per message ID basis (w/o a bunch of extra hackery). If the existing archive function was replaced by a database-type thing, that could allow the sort of access that I think you want, but that's also outside the scope of list management. You might want to look into the replacement archivers to see if they do what you want. z! From barry at list.org Wed Jan 20 05:35:32 2010 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 23:35:32 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <54vcl5h3cd8eikfukrg2v89djv8pqcgnpu@4ax.com> References: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20100119222317.5457f0da@freewill> <54vcl5h3cd8eikfukrg2v89djv8pqcgnpu@4ax.com> Message-ID: <20100119233532.78626b59@freewill> On Jan 20, 2010, at 03:11 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote: >Hi Barry, Hi John, >Yes, but there are "resources" for people to create web forums. >"Resources" for people to create emailers. "Resources" for people to >create bloggs etc. I mean "people to hack code". :) >> I like Gmane personally, but I really want >>Mailman 3 to have an optional NNTP server vending messages from its message >>store. > >If you mean that Mailman could provide NNTP access to it's message >store then that would be great !!! Yep, that's exactly what I mean and I agree it would be cool. >This sort of thing HAS been done by others. A combined database that >can have it's messages accessed as web forum posts, emails, news posts >etc. Hey, if there's stuff we can steal or integrate with, all the better! I have a saying: "the best bass amp there is, is the one you don't have to bring". :) >The huge advantage of this approach is that all forums are updated >together. No need to poll one forum to update to another. Also, only >one DB is needed. Instead of potentially three, or more. > >The "Conversant" people call all this "Internet groupware". If there's existing free software we can write some glue for, all the better. What's out there that we can use? >> I actually don't think it's that hard, it'll just take some >>engineering. My plan is to use the NNTP server in Twisted as the core network >>service, but I'm open to suggestions. > >Get started yesterday ? :-) Lessee, hmm, nope I'm not getting paid to work on this stuff! :) >I am very happy to help out. I have been a beta tester for a number of >freeware, and commercial, programs over the years. I also have some >experience of news (proxy servers). > >I have also contributed to public, and private, newsgroup servers for >more than ten years now. However, I am not a unix expert and I do >not have root access to a unix server. > >I have subscribed to mailman-developers but haven't noticed any >threads on NNTP access to the Mailman DB. > >So, unfortunately, I think my "contribution" may be limited to >encouragement and suggestions/ideas. :-( That's cool. There are /lots/ of opportunities for folks to contribute to Mailman that doesn't include coding. We have a wiki that needs constant gardening, and would love to be fleshed out with ideas on integrating Mailman with existing forum software, blogs, etc. We have lots of documentation that needs writing or improving, or converting to Sphinx. There's testing to be done, web user interfaces to design, etc. etc. If coding's not your thing, I invite you to find some other area of interest and dig in! -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: not available URL: From barry at list.org Wed Jan 20 05:38:11 2010 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 23:38:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <4B56852C.6030201@tuunq.com> References: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20100119222317.5457f0da@freewill> <54vcl5h3cd8eikfukrg2v89djv8pqcgnpu@4ax.com> <4B56852C.6030201@tuunq.com> Message-ID: <20100119233811.38a307bb@freewill> On Jan 19, 2010, at 08:23 PM, Carl Zwanzig wrote: >On 1/19/2010 8:11 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote: > >> If you mean that Mailman could provide NNTP access to it's message >> store then that would be great !!! > >Here's the catch- mailman is a mailing list manager (or remailer, if you >prefer), not a message storage system, so it doesn't -have- a persistent >message store. There may be a list archive, but that isn't something that >would be easily accessible on a per message ID basis (w/o a bunch of extra >hackery). If the existing archive function was replaced by a database-type >thing, that could allow the sort of access that I think you want, but that's >also outside the scope of list management. You might want to look into the >replacement archivers to see if they do what you want. Mailman-with-Pipermail sort of does have this now, but it's in a silo that's not really accessible outside that small part of the system. I've already defined a message store interface (which may or may not be sufficient), and storing messages there is exactly what I want to do. Besides, I think the state of open source archivers is sadly very lacking. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: not available URL: From johnf at net2000.com.au Wed Jan 20 06:19:36 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:19:36 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <20100119233532.78626b59@freewill> References: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20100119222317.5457f0da@freewill> <54vcl5h3cd8eikfukrg2v89djv8pqcgnpu@4ax.com> <20100119233532.78626b59@freewill> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 23:35:32 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: >On Jan 20, 2010, at 03:11 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Barry, >>Yes, but there are "resources" for people to create web forums. >>"Resources" for people to create emailers. "Resources" for people to >>create bloggs etc. >I mean "people to hack code". :) Ah ! Those types of "resources" . < vbg > < snip > >>If you mean that Mailman could provide NNTP access to it's message >>store then that would be great !!! >Yep, that's exactly what I mean and I agree it would be cool. Good. The only two issues that immediately come to mind is to provide a "user option" to change the port number. (for those who don't have root access to their Mailman server) and authentication. >>This sort of thing HAS been done by others. A combined database that >>can have it's messages accessed as web forum posts, emails, news posts >>etc. >Hey, if there's stuff we can steal or integrate with, all the better! I have >a saying: "the best bass amp there is, is the one you don't have to bring". :) I would love to say that there is an open source item that you could look at, but I cannot. It is "commercial". Probably. It started with http://macrobyte.net/ and then went to.. http://www.free-conversant.com/index However, there is a VERY small glimmer of hope if you read the Updated 3/30/2006 entry at.. http://conversant.macrobyte.net/ < snip > >That's cool. There are /lots/ of opportunities for folks to contribute to >Mailman that doesn't include coding. Well, I have provided FAQs on web pages to help people. I need to know Mailman a bit better though to be of worthwhile help. I am still a "newbie". A GUI one at that ! >We have a wiki that needs constant >gardening, and would love to be fleshed out with ideas on integrating Mailman >with existing forum software, blogs, etc. That interests me too. Web forum < > mailing list mirroring already exists in the commercial world. >We have lots of documentation that >needs writing or improving, or converting to Sphinx. There's testing to be >done, web user interfaces to design, etc. etc. >If coding's not your thing, I invite you to find some other area of interest >and dig in! Okay, thanks for the suggestions. As I get more knowledge I will see if/where I can help. Regards, John. From terri at zone12.com Wed Jan 20 07:47:09 2010 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 01:47:09 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <54vcl5h3cd8eikfukrg2v89djv8pqcgnpu@4ax.com> References: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20100119222317.5457f0da@freewill> <54vcl5h3cd8eikfukrg2v89djv8pqcgnpu@4ax.com> Message-ID: <4B56A6ED.8090007@zone12.com> John Fitzsimons wrote: > I have also contributed to public, and private, newsgroup servers for > more than ten years now. However, I am not a unix expert and I do > not have root access to a unix server. Incidentally, if the problem is just one of access to a unix machine, the Systers group had a really nice little set up where they had a linux virtual machine, running mailman, set up to run in virtualbox. That meant we could do testing on all the laptops: mac/windows/solaris/etc. I totally understand if you don't have time to learn all this stuff, but if you're willing to learn, you can install virtualbox (http://www.virtualbox.org/), get a linux vm (or install one yourself -- I usually recommend Ubuntu for a quick and easy install), and install Mailman. It's a bit time consuming, but it's not actually as hard as instructions make it sound, generally speaking. There may be some instructions or links to the vms we were using here (or elsewhere in the systers wiki): http://systers.org/systers-soc/doku.php/getting_started With all your testing experience, it'd be totally awesome if you could grab the new mailman 3 alpha and test that! And at worst, if you don't manage to get it running, you're still testing the instructions and that's still totally useful. :) Terri From marshe25 at evergreen.edu Tue Jan 19 23:08:43 2010 From: marshe25 at evergreen.edu (Maris, Sheryl) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:08:43 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automate Message-ID: <0B8E97A58BFDAA41934C7DB342B6604420D490@Walnut.evergreen.edu> We currently use Lyris for mailing lists. With Lyris we are able to automate the subscription of users to lists by directly updating tables in the MS SQL db. What methods programmatic administration does mailman provide? From mikesnewstart at gmail.com Wed Jan 20 11:58:21 2010 From: mikesnewstart at gmail.com (Michael O'Connell) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 05:58:21 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Routing Email Error Message-ID: Can you Please check as to why I am receiving ALL Trialmembership at fillerupclub.com to my email address. The emails are for people to be removed from the trialmembership and are very hostile. I do not own this fillerupclub email. Thank you. From sherylmaris at gmail.com Tue Jan 19 23:05:19 2010 From: sherylmaris at gmail.com (sheryl maris) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:05:19 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] question Message-ID: <000001ca9953$8232e7f0$8698b7d0$@com> We currently use Lyris for mailing lists. With Lyris we are able to automate the subscription of users to lists by directly updating tables in the MS SQL db. What methods programmatic administration does mailman provide? Aslo, how can we query reports? ----- From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Wed Jan 20 16:01:25 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:01:25 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automate In-Reply-To: <0B8E97A58BFDAA41934C7DB342B6604420D490@Walnut.evergreen.edu> References: <0B8E97A58BFDAA41934C7DB342B6604420D490@Walnut.evergreen.edu> Message-ID: <20100120150125.GF3079@amyl.org.uk> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 02:08:43PM -0800, Maris, Sheryl wrote: > We currently use Lyris for mailing lists. With Lyris we are able > to automate the subscription of users to lists by directly updating > tables in the MS SQL db. What methods programmatic administration > does mailman provide? bin/sync_members is probably the most useful. Maybe run from cron. ( And perhaps using bin/remove_members to retain a blacklist ) -- ``Whether intentionally or not, fish control and potato control were billeted together in St. John's College, Oxford, making this ancient seat of higher learning the biggest fish and chip shop the world has ever seen.'' (Peter Hennessey, on the organisation of wartime rationing) From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Wed Jan 20 16:05:33 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:05:33 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Routing Email Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100120150533.GG3079@amyl.org.uk> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 05:58:21AM -0500, Michael O'Connell wrote: > Can you Please check as to why I am receiving ALL > Trialmembership at fillerupclub.com to my email address. The emails are for > people to be removed from the trialmembership and are very hostile. I do > not own this fillerupclub email. You've contacted a list for people interested in the software, Mailman, not the administrators of a specific list. None of us -- unless there are people who listadmin that particular list -- can help you really. As a general rule, though, in the list email headers, there will be an Unsubscribe link (gmail seems to have that as an option, if you look at the short-headers), and an envelope-to: header which will tell you which email address is subscribed. (we all know 'anecdote' is not the singular of 'data', but I find I get mail destined to other people on gmail, from where they can't spell/copy+paste.) -- DRINK COFFEE -- Do stupid things faster with more energy! From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 20 16:14:26 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 07:14:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] question In-Reply-To: <000001ca9953$8232e7f0$8698b7d0$@com> Message-ID: sheryl maris wrote: >We currently use Lyris for mailing lists. With Lyris we are able to >automate the subscription of users to lists by directly updating tables in >the MS SQL db. What methods programmatic administration does mailman >provide? MM 3 will have a true user database which can probably be updated outside of Mailman. There are third party MySQL member adaptors for MM 2.1. For 'standard' MM 2.1, there are web admin interfaces for deleting individual members and for adding or deleting lists of members. There are also command line tools for adding or removing members and for syncing the list membership with a flat file.There are other command line tools. See the FAQ at and the documentation at . >Aslo, how can we query reports? There is a daily status report script (mmdsr) distributed with Mailman that summarizes log files and includes such things as number of posts by list, hour and sender. There are command line tools for reporting some info (see the FAQ entry above). Beyond that, we'd need to know more specifically what you'd want reported. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Wed Jan 20 16:26:54 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 02:26:54 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <20100119233532.78626b59@freewill> References: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20100119222317.5457f0da@freewill> <54vcl5h3cd8eikfukrg2v89djv8pqcgnpu@4ax.com> <20100119233532.78626b59@freewill> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 23:35:32 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: >On Jan 20, 2010, at 03:11 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Barry, < snip > >Hey, if there's stuff we can steal or integrate with, all the better! I have >a saying: "the best bass amp there is, is the one you don't have to bring". :) I am not sure whether you could get/see the source code for either of these BUT in any case they might give you a few ideas. Even though not exactly what we have been discussing. http://henmedia.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=35 and.. http://sourceforge.net/projects/m2f/ Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 20 16:26:37 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 07:26:37 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Routing Email Error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Michael O'Connell wrote: >Can you Please check as to why I am receiving ALL >Trialmembership at fillerupclub.com to my email address. The emails are for >people to be removed from the trialmembership and are very hostile. I do >not own this fillerupclub email. And neither do we. Someone else wrote to mailman-security about this last week and I replied: ------------------------------------------------------------------ I'm sorry, but we at mailman-security at python.org can't help you directly with this. If the mails are coming from a Mailman mailing list, we have no knowledge of this list or the people who host it. You need to contact the administrators of the server that hosts the list that the messages come from. There does appear to be a Mailman installation at , but there doesn't appear to be a trialmembership at filerupclub.com list (it would be at ) Here is the domain registration information for the fillerupclub.com domain. Registrant: Centrist Society 5909 Wilkerson Rd. #142 Fayetteville, Arkansas 72704 United States Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com) Domain Name: FILLERUPCLUB.COM Created on: 10-Mar-05 Expires on: 10-Mar-10 Last Updated on: 19-Dec-09 Administrative Contact: Dutton, Joey jdutton at cox-internet.com Centrist Society 5909 Wilkerson Rd. #142 Fayetteville, Arkansas 72704 United States (479) 442-2727 Fax -- Technical Contact: Dutton, Joey jdutton at cox-internet.com Centrist Society 5909 Wilkerson Rd. #142 Fayetteville, Arkansas 72704 United States (479) 442-2727 Fax -- I note that your original post had a Cc: to certificates at fillerupclub.com. This is the posting address of a mailing list. If you have been sending mail to this address, it is probably being delivered to all the list members, and this may be the source of your problem. Do not send mail to certificates at fillerupclub.com unless you want it to go to all the (thousands of?) list members. If you don't want to be a member of this list, send a blank email to certificates-unsubscribe at fillerupclub.com. This should result in an email to you requesting confirmation and when you confirm, you will no longer be on the list. ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From clare at catspaw.plus.com Wed Jan 20 17:35:02 2010 From: clare at catspaw.plus.com (Clare Redstone) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:35:02 -0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman 3 alpha 5 Message-ID: <010a01ca99ee$841d2850$8c5778f0$@plus.com> Hi, I don't know enough about how new releases are named. Does alpha mean this Mailman 3 is now ready for general use? Should I ask my host provider to move us to it? I'm a bog-standard user so not ready for something that is still going through early tests and doesn't have everything set up yet. Thanks. Clare From terri at zone12.com Wed Jan 20 17:49:53 2010 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:49:53 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman 3 alpha 5 In-Reply-To: <010a01ca99ee$841d2850$8c5778f0$@plus.com> References: <010a01ca99ee$841d2850$8c5778f0$@plus.com> Message-ID: <4B573431.2000008@zone12.com> The short answer is no, you do not want to ask for an upgrade yet. An alpha release is an early one, prior to the product being ready for all users. Wikipedia has a reasonable page explaining how software releases are often named: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_release Terri Clare Redstone wrote: > Hi, > > > > I don't know enough about how new releases are named. Does alpha mean this > Mailman 3 is now ready for general use? Should I ask my host provider to > move us to it? I'm a bog-standard user so not ready for something that is > still going through early tests and doesn't have everything set up yet. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Clare > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/terri%40zone12.com > From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Jan 20 18:28:03 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 02:28:03 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman 3 alpha 5 In-Reply-To: <010a01ca99ee$841d2850$8c5778f0$@plus.com> References: <010a01ca99ee$841d2850$8c5778f0$@plus.com> Message-ID: <87zl48fzz0.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Clare Redstone writes: > I don't know enough about how new releases are named. Does alpha mean this > Mailman 3 is now ready for general use? Should I ask my host provider to > move us to it? I'm a bog-standard user so not ready for something that is > still going through early tests and doesn't have everything set up yet. Unless you have special needs, or want to learn everything you always wanted to know about Mailman but were afraid to ask, you don't want your provider using alphas at all, and you personally probably don't want to use a beta installation. Just in case you really are "special", a little more about "alpha" and "beta": "Alpha tests" are tests conducted by developers, more or less in "laboratory conditions". Alpha tests can be done at any time after the first line of code is written. Mailman 3 is in much better shape than that, but it is still incomplete, and not ready for general use. Doing an alpha test sometimes requires writing code to fake features that haven't been written yet and things like that. Alpha testing is for people who think that's fun. "Beta tests" are conducted in field conditions, by users (from your point of view, you are not a user, your host provider is the user). Since people are really using the software, as well as testing it, it has to be fairly complete. Mailman 3 is not yet at that stage. Beta tests sometimes uncover bad bugs that only happen under heavy load, or in conditions that the alpha testers failed to imagine. So beta testers are either volunteers, developers, or perhaps ordinary users who desperately need the new features provided (sort of like taking a newly developed drug). In any case, a beta tester should be prepared to put in a certain amount of time and a minimum of skill in dealing with surprises. Few providers can afford the time and probably most don't really have the skills (the skills needed are more like development than administration). From Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org Wed Jan 20 19:16:15 2010 From: Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org (Tim Van Dyne) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:16:15 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo columns - can I wrap text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC7611DC@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> Does anyone know of a way that I can hardcode the size of the columns and wrap the list name text? I'm running into the issue where some list names are lengthy and the description text is getting smashed to the right, primarily because we have our mailman page wrapped into our site's frame. I notice that the description text wraps, but the name itself doesn't. Is there any help for this? -Tim- From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 20 19:42:43 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:42:43 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <1arcl5pqn9flfndso0jf5f0ms47272b5mo@4ax.com> Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: > >Does anyone here know what actually goes to Mailman from Gmane ? I think you are in the best position to answer that. >(1) Is it simply an email, with Gmane as the sender ? With no mention >of the newsgroup poster in any of the headers ? I assume it is an email unless you have set up a Mail<>News Gateway to poll Gmane. >(2) Is there anything contained in any of the headers from Gmane that >refers to the newsgroup poster ? Is not the poster's address in the From: header? >I know some of you unix guys are pretty smart. Has anyone been able to >see/grep these headers to see what they say please ? What follows refers to a default installation of GNU Mailman except for one guess at a cPanel URL. It may or may not apply to cPanel. Also, some of these thing are site configuration settings that can be overridden by a packager (cPanel) or an installation (your ISP). Mailman has two concepts of the sender of a post. One is used to determine whether or not the sender is a list member and the other is used after it is determined that the post is not from a member to determine if the sender is in *_these_nonmembers. The first test is to inspect all addresses from the following in order (determined by the setting of SENDER_HEADERS) 1) the From: header 2) the 'unix from' or envelope sender 3) the Reply-To: header 4) the Sender: header If any of these addresses matches a list member, the post is determined to be a member post from the first found member address and handled accordingly. If the post is not from a member as above it is from the address in the From: header. If there is no From:, it is the address in the Sender: header and if there is neither, it is the envelope sender (unix from) (the from/sender order is reversed if USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes). Is some Gmane address a member of your list? If so, and that address is in one of 2 - 4 above, that's why non-member posts get to your list from Gmane. I think you can see a full, raw message from Gmane if your list has archives. For a cPanel list xyz at example.com, you would go to http://example.com/mailman/private/xyz_example.com.mbox/xyz_example.com.mbox This requires authentication for the private archive (even if the list's archive is public), but at least in standard Mailman the equivalent URL will return the entire raw archive mailbox. There, you should be able to find posts from Gmane and see all the headers. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 20 20:04:32 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:04:32 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo columns - can I wrap text In-Reply-To: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC7611DC@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> Message-ID: Tim Van Dyne wrote: >Does anyone know of a way that I can hardcode the size of the columns >and wrap the list name text? > >I'm running into the issue where some list names are lengthy and the >description text is getting smashed to the right, primarily because we >have our mailman page wrapped into our site's frame. I notice that the >description text wraps, but the name itself doesn't. You can see the HTML that Mailman generates for that page by viewing the page source in your browser. Mailman doesn't specify any column widths for that table. It is the browser that decides how to display it. If you can say how you would want the HTML to be modified to produce your desired result, I can suggest changes to Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py and possibly Mailman/htmlformat.py to produce that HTML. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org Wed Jan 20 20:15:20 2010 From: Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org (Tim Van Dyne) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:15:20 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo columns - can I wrap text In-Reply-To: References: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC7611DC@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> Message-ID: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC761225@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> I figured it out. I didn't realize the obvious which was that it wouldn't wrap no matter what I did to the table because it's one long string due to the underscores_. So after some digging (nobody here knows Python), we added the replace function to the output name to remove the under_scores and replace them with spaces. ../Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py: Line 143: Was>> [Link(url, Bold(real_name)), Is now>> [Link(url, Bold(real_name.replace('_',' '))), This made everything look so much better. Small victory, but we celebrated :) -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:05 AM To: Tim Van Dyne; mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo columns - can I wrap text Tim Van Dyne wrote: >Does anyone know of a way that I can hardcode the size of the columns >and wrap the list name text? > >I'm running into the issue where some list names are lengthy and the >description text is getting smashed to the right, primarily because we >have our mailman page wrapped into our site's frame. I notice that the >description text wraps, but the name itself doesn't. You can see the HTML that Mailman generates for that page by viewing the page source in your browser. Mailman doesn't specify any column widths for that table. It is the browser that decides how to display it. If you can say how you would want the HTML to be modified to produce your desired result, I can suggest changes to Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py and possibly Mailman/htmlformat.py to produce that HTML. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Jan 20 20:34:42 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 04:34:42 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo columns - can I wrap text In-Reply-To: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC761225@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> References: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC7611DC@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC761225@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> Message-ID: <87y6jsfu3x.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Tim Van Dyne writes: > This made everything look so much better. Small victory, but we > celebrated :) So should we all! Lord, I love open source! From Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu Wed Jan 20 20:38:49 2010 From: Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu (Young, Darren) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:38:49 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Message-ID: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD81D@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> I've enabled archives on a mailing list with the following: archive = yes archive_private = public archive_volume_frequency = Monthly And the /pipermail/ URL points to /usr/local/mailman/archives/public (httpd.conf stuff): ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/" Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/ AllowOverride All Options Indexes Order allow,deny Allow from all Options FollowSymLinks However, in /usr/local/mailman/archives/public there's no directories and in the browser I get a URL not found error. I've posted a couple messages to the list and they're being delivered to members so how/when are the archives created? Darren Young Systems & Security Architect Computing Services University of Chicago Booth School of Business 5807 South Woodlawn Avenue Chicago, IL 60637 Voice 773.702.0331 | Fax 773.702.0233 From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 20 20:56:46 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:56:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD81D@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: Young, Darren wrote: >I've enabled archives on a mailing list with the following: >archive = yes >archive_private = public >archive_volume_frequency = Monthly [...] >However, in /usr/local/mailman/archives/public there's no directories >and in the browser I get a URL not found error. I've posted a couple >messages to the list and they're being delivered to members so how/when >are the archives created? There are no archives in /usr/local/mailman/archives/public. The archives are in /usr/local/mailman/archives/private whether or not they are public. For a public archive, there is also a symlink from /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/list to /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list. The initial 'empty' archive (just the /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list/index.html file and the /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list.mbox/ directory) is created when the list is created whether or not archiving is enabled. There is probably some error in archiving resulting in log entries and shunted messages destined for the archive. What's in Mailman's error log? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 20 20:59:29 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:59:29 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo columns - can I wrap text In-Reply-To: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC761225@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> Message-ID: Tim Van Dyne wrote: >I figured it out. Great! >I didn't realize the obvious "If I had a nickel for every time I didn't realize the obvious ..." :) -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu Wed Jan 20 21:01:14 2010 From: Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu (Young, Darren) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:01:14 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: References: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD81D@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD86F@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> The only thing in mailman/archive/private/perl-ad-manager-users is the index.html. Not much in the logs: [root at bushlms01 logs]# grep perl-ad * post:Jan 20 12:42:44 2010 (2095) post to perl-ad-manager-users from darren.young at chicagobooth.edu, size=5878, message-id=<07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD766 at GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchica go.edu>, success post:Jan 20 12:55:51 2010 (2095) post to perl-ad-manager-users from darren.young at chicagobooth.edu, size=5892, message-id=<07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD790 at GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchica go.edu>, success post:Jan 20 13:48:12 2010 (2095) post to perl-ad-manager-users from darren.young at chicagobooth.edu, size=5938, message-id=<07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD840 at GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchica go.edu>, success smtp:Jan 20 12:26:23 2010 (2095) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.056 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:29:16 2010 (2095) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.086 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:29:33 2010 (2095) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.064 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:29:49 2010 (2095) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.063 seconds smtp:Jan 20 13:04:16 2010 (2095) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.711 seconds smtp:Jan 20 13:05:17 2010 (2095) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.070 seconds subscribe:Jan 20 12:27:37 2010 (15857) perl-ad-manager-users: new "darren.young at chicagobooth.edu" <>, admin mass sub subscribe:Jan 20 12:29:15 2010 (15904) perl-ad-manager-users: deleted darren.young at chicagobooth.edu; member mgt page subscribe:Jan 20 12:29:32 2010 (15909) perl-ad-manager-users: pending Darren Young 128.135.211.176 subscribe:Jan 20 12:29:48 2010 (15915) perl-ad-manager-users: new "darren.young at chicagobooth.edu" , via web confirmation subscribe:Jan 20 13:04:14 2010 (21806) perl-ad-manager-users: pending Dan 198.31.192.252 subscribe:Jan 20 13:05:15 2010 (2092) perl-ad-manager-users: new "dcutler at intelimedix.com" , via email confirmation subscribe:Jan 20 13:47:30 2010 (28202) perl-ad-manager-users: new "perl-ad-manager-users+garchive-16579 at googlegroups.com" <>, admin mass sub > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 1:57 PM > To: Young, Darren; mailman-users at python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives > > Young, Darren wrote: > > >I've enabled archives on a mailing list with the following: > >archive = yes > >archive_private = public > >archive_volume_frequency = Monthly > [...] > >However, in /usr/local/mailman/archives/public there's no directories > >and in the browser I get a URL not found error. I've posted a couple > >messages to the list and they're being delivered to members so > how/when > >are the archives created? > > > There are no archives in /usr/local/mailman/archives/public. The > archives are in /usr/local/mailman/archives/private whether or not > they are public. For a public archive, there is also a symlink from > /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/list to > /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list. > > The initial 'empty' archive (just the > /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list/index.html file and the > /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list.mbox/ directory) is created > when the list is created whether or not archiving is enabled. > > There is probably some error in archiving resulting in log entries and > shunted messages destined for the archive. What's in Mailman's error > log? > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 20 22:13:46 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:13:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD86F@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: Young, Darren wrote: >The only thing in mailman/archive/private/perl-ad-manager-users is the >index.html. Not much in the logs: > >[root at bushlms01 logs]# grep perl-ad * This string won't appear in the error log entries. What's in Mailman's error log with timestamps close to these post log entries? >post:Jan 20 12:42:44 2010 (2095) post to perl-ad-manager-users from >darren.young at chicagobooth.edu, size=5878, >message-id=<07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD766 at GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchica >go.edu>, success >post:Jan 20 12:55:51 2010 (2095) post to perl-ad-manager-users from >darren.young at chicagobooth.edu, size=5892, >message-id=<07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD790 at GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchica >go.edu>, success >post:Jan 20 13:48:12 2010 (2095) post to perl-ad-manager-users from >darren.young at chicagobooth.edu, size=5938, >message-id=<07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD840 at GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchica >go.edu>, success -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu Wed Jan 20 22:18:48 2010 From: Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu (Young, Darren) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:18:48 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: References: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD86F@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD982@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Not much, close in all of them: [root at bushlms01 logs]# grep 'Jan 20 12:4' * bounce:Jan 20 12:41:33 2009 (1416) processing 1 queued bounces error:Jan 20 12:47:42 2009 (9809) admin.py access for non-existent list: daily-job-postings error:Jan 20 12:47:50 2009 (9813) admin.py access for non-existent list: daily-job-postings post:Jan 20 12:40:00 2009 (1420) post to copycenter from andrea.mcclam at chicagogsb.edu, size=5453, message-id=<6D5BE1496F34214587ED457EB6B3C70502F2C129 at GSBHEX1V.gsb.uchica go.edu>, success post:Jan 20 12:40:12 2009 (1420) post to registration_err from prodshop at mingming.uchicago.edu, size=4193, message-id=<20090120184002.GA29196 at mingming.uchicago.edu>, success post:Jan 20 12:40:14 2009 (1420) post to pif_err from prodshop at mingming.uchicago.edu, size=18707, message-id=<20090120184002.GA29198 at mingming.uchicago.edu>, success post:Jan 20 12:40:17 2009 (1420) post to address_err from prodshop at mingming.uchicago.edu, size=12457, message-id=<20090120184001.GA29256 at mingming.uchicago.edu>, success post:Jan 20 12:40:26 2009 (1420) post to registration_err from prodshop at mingming.uchicago.edu, size=34498, message-id=<20090120184002.GA29406 at mingming.uchicago.edu>, success post:Jan 20 12:40:40 2009 (1420) post to copycenter from andrea.mcclam at chicagogsb.edu, size=143295, message-id=<6D5BE1496F34214587ED457EB6B3C70502F2C12C at GSBHEX1V.gsb.uchica go.edu>, success post:Jan 20 12:42:44 2010 (2095) post to perl-ad-manager-users from darren.young at chicagobooth.edu, size=5878, message-id=<07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD766 at GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchica go.edu>, success post:Jan 20 12:48:38 2010 (2095) post to sinconf from ezine at learningcenters.com, size=13039, message-id=, success smtp:Jan 20 12:40:00 2009 (1420) <6D5BE1496F34214587ED457EB6B3C70502F2C129 at GSBHEX1V.gsb.uchicago.edu> smtp for 5 recips, completed in 0.039 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:40:12 2009 (1420) <20090120184002.GA29196 at mingming.uchicago.edu> smtp for 12 recips, completed in 0.353 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:40:14 2009 (1420) <20090120184002.GA29198 at mingming.uchicago.edu> smtp for 14 recips, completed in 0.053 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:40:17 2009 (1420) <20090120184001.GA29256 at mingming.uchicago.edu> smtp for 13 recips, completed in 0.054 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:40:26 2009 (1420) <20090120184002.GA29406 at mingming.uchicago.edu> smtp for 12 recips, completed in 0.044 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:40:40 2009 (1420) <6D5BE1496F34214587ED457EB6B3C70502F2C12C at GSBHEX1V.gsb.uchicago.edu> smtp for 5 recips, completed in 0.060 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:46:10 2009 (1420) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.039 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:48:54 2009 (1420) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.415 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:48:54 2009 (1420) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.036 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:48:55 2009 (1420) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.038 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:48:55 2009 (1420) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.038 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:48:59 2009 (1420) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.032 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:48:59 2009 (1420) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:49:00 2009 (1420) smtp for 8 recips, completed in 0.040 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:49:00 2009 (1420) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.042 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:49:00 2009 (1420) smtp for 2 recips, completed in 0.038 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:49:01 2009 (1420) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.029 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:49:01 2009 (1420) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.035 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:49:03 2009 (1420) smtp for 8 recips, completed in 0.048 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:42:44 2010 (2095) <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD766 at GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.112 seconds smtp:Jan 20 12:48:38 2010 (2095) smtp for 2 recips, completed in 0.116 seconds subscribe:Jan 20 12:46:09 2009 (9378) new-searchfirm-listings: pending ybu at chicagogsb.edu 171.159.194.10 vette:Jan 20 12:47:03 2009 (9390) new-searchfirm-listings: held subscription request from ybu at chicagogsb.edu vette:Jan 20 12:48:52 2009 (1418) Fystu-grp-events post from steven.markovich at chicagogsb.edu held, message-id=: Post by non-member to a members-only list vette:Jan 20 12:48:54 2009 (1418) Ptstu-grp-events post from steven.markovich at chicagogsb.edu held, message-id=: Post by non-member to a members-only list vette:Jan 20 12:48:57 2009 (1418) Phdstu-grp-events post from steven.markovich at chicagogsb.edu held, message-id=: Post by non-member to a members-only list vette:Jan 20 12:48:59 2009 (1418) Systu-grp-events post from steven.markovich at chicagogsb.edu held, message-id=: Post by non-member to a members-only list The only one that sticks out but was earlier: Jan 20 12:47:42 2009 (9809) admin.py access for non-existent list: daily-job-postings Jan 20 12:47:50 2009 (9813) admin.py access for non-existent list: daily-job-postings Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): Traceback (most recent call last): Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ? Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): main() Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): qrunner.run() Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 87, in run Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): self._cleanup() Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 220, in _cleanup Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): BounceMixin._cleanup(self) Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 132, in _cleanup Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): self._register_bounces() Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 120, in _register_bounces Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): mlist.registerBounce(addr, msg, day=day) Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 131, in registerBounce Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,)*6)) Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): ValueError : day of year out of range > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:14 PM > To: Young, Darren; mailman-users at python.org > Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Archives > > Young, Darren wrote: > > >The only thing in mailman/archive/private/perl-ad-manager-users is the > >index.html. Not much in the logs: > > > >[root at bushlms01 logs]# grep perl-ad * > > > This string won't appear in the error log entries. > > What's in Mailman's error log with timestamps close to these post log > entries? > > >post:Jan 20 12:42:44 2010 (2095) post to perl-ad-manager-users from > >darren.young at chicagobooth.edu, size=5878, > >message- > id=<07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD766 at GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchica > >go.edu>, success > >post:Jan 20 12:55:51 2010 (2095) post to perl-ad-manager-users from > >darren.young at chicagobooth.edu, size=5892, > >message- > id=<07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD790 at GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchica > >go.edu>, success > >post:Jan 20 13:48:12 2010 (2095) post to perl-ad-manager-users from > >darren.young at chicagobooth.edu, size=5938, > >message- > id=<07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD840 at GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchica > >go.edu>, success > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 20 23:45:59 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:45:59 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD982@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> References: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD982@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <4B5787A7.7070701@msapiro.net> Young, Darren wrote: > Not much, close in all of them: As I said in another recent reply - "If I had a nickel for every time I didn't realize the obvious ..." :) Is ArchRunner running? What's in /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive? > The only one that sticks out but was earlier: > > Jan 20 12:47:42 2009 (9809) admin.py access for non-existent list: > daily-job-postings > Jan 20 12:47:50 2009 (9813) admin.py access for non-existent list: > daily-job-postings > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): Traceback (most recent call last): > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File > "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ? > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): main() > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File > "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): qrunner.run() > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File > "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 87, in run > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): self._cleanup() > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File > "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 220, in > _cleanup > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): BounceMixin._cleanup(self) > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File > "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 132, in > _cleanup > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): self._register_bounces() > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File > "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 120, in > _register_bounces > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): mlist.registerBounce(addr, msg, > day=day) > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File > "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 131, in registerBounce > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + > (0,)*6)) > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): ValueError : day of year out of > range This is an incompatibility between Mailman 2.1.5 and older and Python 2.4.x and newer. If you can't upgrade Mailman, the attached Bouncer.py.patch will fix it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: Bouncer.py.patch URL: From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Wed Jan 20 23:51:51 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 22:51:51 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD81D@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> References: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD81D@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <20100120225151.GI3079@amyl.org.uk> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 01:38:49PM -0600, Young, Darren wrote: > I've enabled archives on a mailing list with the following: > archive = yes > archive_private = public > However, in /usr/local/mailman/archives/public there's no directories > and in the browser I get a URL not found error. I've posted a couple > messages to the list and they're being delivered to members so how/when > are the archives created? Just picking up on something, did you enable archiving before a post has been sent; i.e., has archiving been set before >1 message has been sent to the list? -- ``I wouldn't call Civil Service delays `tactics', Minister,'' he replied smoothly. ``That would be to mistake lethargy for strategy.'' (Humphrey Appleby, from `Yes, Minister', Jonathan Lynn and Anthony Jay) From johnf at net2000.com.au Thu Jan 21 00:18:15 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:18:15 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: <1arcl5pqn9flfndso0jf5f0ms47272b5mo@4ax.com> Message-ID: <6f1fl5pijqesov3rabi4jcuuubccsmva68@4ax.com> On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:42:43 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: >>Does anyone here know what actually goes to Mailman from Gmane ? >I think you are in the best position to answer that. Er. No. I don't. I don't have root access to my hosted server, and have no idea where my Mailman logs, or archives, are kept. Your reply to Young, Darren suggests.... /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list/index.html file /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list.mbox/ When I FTP to my site I see... No "usr" directory. No "local" directory. No "mailman" directory. No "archives" directory. No "private" directory etc. >>(1) Is it simply an email, with Gmane as the sender ? With no mention >>of the newsgroup poster in any of the headers ? >I assume it is an email unless you have set up a Mail<>News Gateway to >poll Gmane. I have that setup. I don't however know that it is needed. From what I can see Gmane gets it's input as a result of.. (1) It's subscription to my mailing list (2) The gateway setup. I don't understand why both are needed. IMO one, OR the other, should cover things. Assuming that NNTP posting does NOT result in a post to their server but instead results in an email to the mailing list first. >>(2) Is there anything contained in any of the headers from Gmane that >>refers to the newsgroup poster ? >Is not the poster's address in the From: header? Well, I didn't know the answer to that question. Fortunately however someone here was good enough to send me a header example and it appears that the poster of a newsgroup post appears at least twice. In the newsgroup post header as.. From: Fred Smith fs at myisp.com and in the header sent by Gmane. From: Fred Smith fs at myisp.com < snip > >What follows refers to a default installation of GNU Mailman except for >one guess at a cPanel URL. It may or may not apply to cPanel. Also, >some of these thing are site configuration settings that can be >overridden by a packager (cPanel) or an installation (your ISP). >Mailman has two concepts of the sender of a post. One is used to >determine whether or not the sender is a list member and the other is >used after it is determined that the post is not from a member to >determine if the sender is in *_these_nonmembers. >The first test is to inspect all addresses from the following in order >(determined by the setting of SENDER_HEADERS) >1) the From: header >2) the 'unix from' or envelope sender >3) the Reply-To: header >4) the Sender: header >If any of these addresses matches a list member, the post is determined >to be a member post from the first found member address and handled >accordingly. >If the post is not from a member as above it is from the address in the >From: header. If there is no From:, it is the address in the Sender: >header and if there is neither, it is the envelope sender (unix from) >(the from/sender order is reversed if USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes). >Is some Gmane address a member of your list? If so, and that address is >in one of 2 - 4 above, that's why non-member posts get to your list >from Gmane. Yes, Gmane is subscribed as a Gmane Administrator. >I think you can see a full, raw message from Gmane if your list has >archives. For a cPanel list xyz at example.com, you would go to >http://example.com/mailman/private/xyz_example.com.mbox/xyz_example.com.mbox >This requires authentication for the private archive (even if the >list's archive is public), but at least in standard Mailman the >equivalent URL will return the entire raw archive mailbox. >There, you should be able to find posts from Gmane and see all the >headers. When I look at the archives I don't see the header info. Which, normally I would be quite happy about. Anything that helps keep things more "private" the better. So now, here is my next question. If I setup the Gmane address for "moderation" and then put the subscriber's address in under.... "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted." Would that help to plug the Gmane "hole" ? In other words restrict posting from Gmane to only those who are listed as subscribers ? Can anyone here answer that question and/or express a view on the possibility of this approach working please ? Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 21 00:31:06 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:31:06 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <6f1fl5pijqesov3rabi4jcuuubccsmva68@4ax.com> Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: >On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:42:43 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >>John Fitzsimons wrote: > >>>Does anyone here know what actually goes to Mailman from Gmane ? > >>I think you are in the best position to answer that. > >Er. No. I don't. I don't have root access to my hosted server, and >have no idea where my Mailman logs, or archives, are kept. Read on. >>I think you can see a full, raw message from Gmane if your list has >>archives. For a cPanel list xyz at example.com, you would go to >>http://example.com/mailman/private/xyz_example.com.mbox/xyz_example.com.mbox > >>This requires authentication for the private archive (even if the >>list's archive is public), but at least in standard Mailman the >>equivalent URL will return the entire raw archive mailbox. > >>There, you should be able to find posts from Gmane and see all the >>headers. > >When I look at the archives I don't see the header info. Which, >normally I would be quite happy about. Anything that helps keep things >more "private" the better. Did you actually go to a URL for your archive based on the template above? If you did, what happened. If you didn't, then do it. >So now, here is my next question. > >If I setup the Gmane address for "moderation" and then put the >subscriber's address in under.... > >"List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically >accepted." > >Would that help to plug the Gmane "hole" ? In other words restrict >posting from Gmane to only those who are listed as subscribers ? > >Can anyone here answer that question and/or express a view on the >possibility of this approach working please ? It is complicated as I indicated in my original reply. It would help if You went to an archive URL based on the template I gave and actually found a message. But, the answer to your exact question is No. In your scenario, the post will presumably be 'from' the Gmane address so it will be hels as a post from a moderated member. *_these_nonmembers only applies to non-member posts. Now, you could make all those authorized posters members of your list (perhaps with no mail delivery and no password reminders), and that would work if the posts are From: them. Then I think you could moderate the Gmane address, and if it's the envelope sender, and/or Sender:, the member address in From: will take priority and determine what is done with the post. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Thu Jan 21 01:35:19 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:35:19 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: <6f1fl5pijqesov3rabi4jcuuubccsmva68@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:31:06 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Mark, < snip > >>>I think you can see a full, raw message from Gmane if your list has >>>archives. For a cPanel list xyz at example.com, you would go to >>>http://example.com/mailman/private/xyz_example.com.mbox/xyz_example.com.mbox >>>This requires authentication for the private archive (even if the >>>list's archive is public), but at least in standard Mailman the >>>equivalent URL will return the entire raw archive mailbox. I have no idea how close to "standard Mailman" my system is. It is a hosted system. IIRC I added the mailing list via CPanel. >>>There, you should be able to find posts from Gmane and see all the >>>headers. >>When I look at the archives I don't see the header info. Which, >>normally I would be quite happy about. Anything that helps keep things >>more "private" the better. >Did you actually go to a URL for your archive based on the template >above? If you did, what happened. If you didn't, then do it. I went to the list info page where it says... To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the xxxxxxx Archives. The address was... http://mydomain/pipermail/mymailinglist Though I don't see that directory when I FTP to my site. If I try your address I think it would translate to.. http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist/.mbox I then get.. xxxxxxmailinglist Private Archives Authentication Then... Private archive file not found >>So now, here is my next question. >>If I setup the Gmane address for "moderation" and then put the >>subscriber's address in under.... >>"List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically >>accepted." >>Would that help to plug the Gmane "hole" ? In other words restrict >>posting from Gmane to only those who are listed as subscribers ? >>Can anyone here answer that question and/or express a view on the >>possibility of this approach working please ? >It is complicated as I indicated in my original reply. It would help if >You went to an archive URL based on the template I gave and actually >found a message. I have no difficulty finding a message in my archive. It is finding header info that is the problem. >But, the answer to your exact question is No. In your scenario, the >post will presumably be 'from' the Gmane address so it will be hels as >a post from a moderated member. *_these_nonmembers only applies to >non-member posts. >Now, you could make all those authorized posters members of your list >(perhaps with no mail delivery and no password reminders), and that >would work if the posts are From: them. Then I think you could >moderate the Gmane address, and if it's the envelope sender, and/or >Sender:, the member address in From: will take priority and determine >what is done with the post. Yes, I "think" you are confirming what I am thinking of trying out. To block ("moderate") everything from Gmane and then add all my subscribers in the.... "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted." So, this list would actually be working as a form of "White List". Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 21 01:51:21 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:51:21 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: > >If I try your address I think it would translate to.. > >http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist/.mbox > >I then get.. > >xxxxxxmailinglist Private Archives Authentication > >Then... > >Private archive file not found It translates to http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox where mydomain is your host name and mymailinglist is the cPanel list name of the form listname_mydomain. Note that mymailinglist.mbox appears twice, as a directory and a file. >>>So now, here is my next question. > >>>If I setup the Gmane address for "moderation" and then put the >>>subscriber's address in under.... > >>>"List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically >>>accepted." > >>>Would that help to plug the Gmane "hole" ? In other words restrict >>>posting from Gmane to only those who are listed as subscribers ? > >>>Can anyone here answer that question and/or express a view on the >>>possibility of this approach working please ? > >>It is complicated as I indicated in my original reply. It would help if >>You went to an archive URL based on the template I gave and actually >>found a message. > >I have no difficulty finding a message in my archive. It is finding >header info that is the problem. The header is in the raw mailbox which I'm trying to tell you how to access. Even lacking that, much (but unfortunately with a few critical bits changed) of the header is in the message sent to list members. >>But, the answer to your exact question is No. In your scenario, the >>post will presumably be 'from' the Gmane address so it will be hels as >>a post from a moderated member. *_these_nonmembers only applies to >>non-member posts. > >>Now, you could make all those authorized posters members of your list >>(perhaps with no mail delivery and no password reminders), and that >>would work if the posts are From: them. Then I think you could >>moderate the Gmane address, and if it's the envelope sender, and/or >>Sender:, the member address in From: will take priority and determine >>what is done with the post. > >Yes, I "think" you are confirming what I am thinking of trying out. To >block ("moderate") everything from Gmane and then add all my >subscribers in the.... > >"List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically >accepted." > >So, this list would actually be working as a form of "White List". No! I am not confirming that. If the Gmane address is a moderated member, you will never get to accept_these_nonmembers ("List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted.") because this only applies to non-member posts and the post will be from a moderated member. Either the Gmane address is not a member at all, or the 'white-listed' addresses have to be members, which I *think* will have priority because they are in From: -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rb211 at tds.net Thu Jan 21 02:12:43 2010 From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:12:43 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201001202012.43384.rb211@tds.net> On Wednesday 20 January 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: > John Fitzsimons wrote: > >Private archive file not found > > It translates to > > http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/mymail >inglist.mbox > > where mydomain is your host name and mymailinglist is the cPanel list > name of the form listname_mydomain. Note that mymailinglist.mbox > appears twice, as a directory and a file. Mark, I can confirm what John is getting and am willing to post the real URL to the list and send the *user* password directly to you if necessary. (Its just a test list with two archived posts, both by myself) Oh 2.1.11.cp3 here. -- William From submit at zuka.net Thu Jan 21 01:19:57 2010 From: submit at zuka.net (Dave Filchak) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:19:57 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] move messages Message-ID: <4B579DAD.20404@zuka.net> Hi, Is it possible to move just the messages and archive from one list to another? This would be the same instance of Mailman on the same server (obviously). Cheers Dave From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 21 02:41:52 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:41:52 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] move messages In-Reply-To: <4B579DAD.20404@zuka.net> Message-ID: Dave Filchak wrote: > >Is it possible to move just the messages and archive from one list to >another? This would be the same instance of Mailman on the same server >(obviously). The cleanest way to do this is to stop Mailman and then move the messages from the one list's archives/private/list1.mbox/list1.mbox to the other list's archives/private/list2.mbox/list2.mbox. I.e., remove the messages from the list1.mbox and add them to the list2.mbox. This can be done with a text editor, but it can't be a word processor that will wrap or fill lines in any way. Once the .mbox files contain the desired messages, you can rebuild the archives of the two lists with 'bin/arch --wipe'. Also, see the FAQ at and note that this process will renumber messages in both lists archives and break any saved URL's that point to those archives. If list1 is going away or won't have archives at all, and you want to move all its messages to list2's archive, you can do this in Mailman's directory: Stop Mailman cp archives/private/list2.mbox/list2.mbox backup/in/case cat archives/private/list1.mbox/list1.mbox \ >> archives/private/list2.mbox/list2.mbox bin/arch --wipe list2 Start Mailman This will add all of list1's messages to list2's archive with little if any renumbering of list2's existing messages. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 21 02:49:45 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:49:45 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <201001202012.43384.rb211@tds.net> Message-ID: William Bagwell wrote: >On Wednesday 20 January 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> It translates to >> >> http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox >> >> where mydomain is your host name and mymailinglist is the cPanel list >> name of the form listname_mydomain. Note that mymailinglist.mbox >> appears twice, as a directory and a file. > >Mark, I can confirm what John is getting and am willing to post the real >URL to the list and send the *user* password directly to you if >necessary. (Its just a test list with two archived posts, both by myself) > >Oh 2.1.11.cp3 here. Ooops. I see there is a mistake in that URL. I meant http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox (i.e. two /mymailinglist.mbox and no plain /mymailinglist) William, If you can confirm that that URL with appropriate substitutions for mydomain and mymailnglist works on cPanel archives, I think that's all we need. If it doesn't work, then we can communicate off list about finding one that works. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Thu Jan 21 02:54:06 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 12:54:06 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:51:21 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: < snip > >>If I try your address I think it would translate to.. >>http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist/.mbox >>I then get.. >>xxxxxxmailinglist Private Archives Authentication >>Then... >>Private archive file not found >It translates to >http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox >where mydomain is your host name and mymailinglist is the cPanel list >name of the form listname_mydomain. Note that mymailinglist.mbox >appears twice, as a directory and a file. Either way I get the same result. < snip > >If the Gmane address is a moderated >member, you will never get to accept_these_nonmembers ("List of >non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically >accepted.") because this only applies to non-member posts and the post >will be from a moderated member. The post is from a moderated member, Gmane, HOWEVER the header that is part of the Gmane post says.. From: Fred Smith fs at myisp.com I was hoping that that header would take priority over the other Gmane headers if I blocked Gmane and had a whitelist. I think the Received: from address is Gmane. Would that header be authenticated AFTER the To: one ? So even though the post comes from Gmane the From: info doesn't have their address. It instead has the address of the person posting to the newsgroup. >Either the Gmane address is not a member at all, or the 'white-listed' >addresses have to be members, which I *think* will have priority >because they are in From: If I unsubscribed Gmane as a member then would the Mailman gateway settings still result in messages going to, and from, the newsgroup ? In other words, does anyone here know whether the Gmane subscription is needed ? Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 21 03:12:08 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 18:12:08 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: >On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:51:21 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >>John Fitzsimons wrote: > >< snip > > >>>If I try your address I think it would translate to.. > >>>http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist/.mbox > >>>I then get.. > >>>xxxxxxmailinglist Private Archives Authentication > >>>Then... > >>>Private archive file not found > >>It translates to > >>http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox > >>where mydomain is your host name and mymailinglist is the cPanel list >>name of the form listname_mydomain. Note that mymailinglist.mbox >>appears twice, as a directory and a file. > >Either way I get the same result. As I said in a followup, I made a mistake in trying to correct your translation. It should be http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox >>If the Gmane address is a moderated >>member, you will never get to accept_these_nonmembers ("List of >>non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically >>accepted.") because this only applies to non-member posts and the post >>will be from a moderated member. > >The post is from a moderated member, Gmane, HOWEVER the header >that is part of the Gmane post says.. > >From: Fred Smith fs at myisp.com > >I was hoping that that header would take priority over the other Gmane >headers if I blocked Gmane and had a whitelist. It does and it doesn't. It will take priority in determining which list member the post is from, but it won't mean a thing if put in accept_these_nonmembers, becaues the post will have alt=ready been determined to be from the Gmane member, so it won't be a non-member post and accept_these_nonmembers won't be consulted. So make fs at myisp.com an unmoderated list member with delivery and password reminders disabled if desired, and Fred's post from Gmane should be accepted. >I think the Received: from address is Gmane. Would that header be >authenticated AFTER the To: one ? Mailman doesn't look at Received: headers. My post at attempts to explain what Mailman looks at. >So even though the post comes from Gmane the From: info doesn't have >their address. It instead has the address of the person posting to the >newsgroup. > >>Either the Gmane address is not a member at all, or the 'white-listed' >>addresses have to be members, which I *think* will have priority >>because they are in From: > >If I unsubscribed Gmane as a member then would the Mailman gateway >settings still result in messages going to, and from, the newsgroup ? > >In other words, does anyone here know whether the Gmane subscription >is needed ? Presumably it is needed if you are gatewaing from Mailman to Gmane because that's how messages get to Gmane from Mailman. Unless of course gatwaying to/from Gmane is via Mailman's NNTP Mail<->News gateway. Then it's a totally different story, and everything I've been saying is irrelevant, but I don't think that's how this is working. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Thu Jan 21 05:38:28 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:38:28 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <4B56A6ED.8090007@zone12.com> References: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20100119222317.5457f0da@freewill> <54vcl5h3cd8eikfukrg2v89djv8pqcgnpu@4ax.com> <4B56A6ED.8090007@zone12.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 01:47:09 -0500, Terri Oda wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Terri, >> I have also contributed to public, and private, newsgroup servers for >> more than ten years now. However, I am not a unix expert and I do >> not have root access to a unix server. >Incidentally, if the problem is just one of access to a unix machine, >the Systers group had a really nice little set up where they had a linux >virtual machine, running mailman, set up to run in virtualbox. That >meant we could do testing on all the laptops: mac/windows/solaris/etc. Is there a brothers group for us guys ? :-) >I totally understand if you don't have time to learn all this stuff, but >if you're willing to learn, you can install virtualbox >(http://www.virtualbox.org/), get a linux vm (or install one yourself -- >I usually recommend Ubuntu for a quick and easy install), and install >Mailman. It's a bit time consuming, but it's not actually as hard as >instructions make it sound, generally speaking. Thank you for the link. >There may be some instructions or links to the vms we were using here >(or elsewhere in the systers wiki): >http://systers.org/systers-soc/doku.php/getting_started Maybe, but such items as "Install Python", "sudo access" etc. don't mean a lot to us non unix people. >With all your testing experience, it'd be totally awesome if you could >grab the new mailman 3 alpha and test that! And at worst, if you don't >manage to get it running, you're still testing the instructions and >that's still totally useful. :) > Terri Probably, but the amount of "hand holding" I would need would probably annoy everyone. Though I did install linux a few years ago when doing some computing studies. I will however think about your suggestion. Thank you. For the moment though my full attention is in getting an "authenticated" news server running. Something that is increasingly looking like an impossibility. :-( Regards, John. From johnf at net2000.com.au Thu Jan 21 05:38:29 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:38:29 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 18:12:08 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: < snip > >>In other words, does anyone here know whether the Gmane subscription >>is needed ? >Presumably it is needed if you are gatewaing from Mailman to Gmane >because that's how messages get to Gmane from Mailman. >Unless of course gatwaying to/from Gmane is via Mailman's NNTP >Mail<->News gateway. Then it's a totally different story, and >everything I've been saying is irrelevant, but I don't think that's >how this is working. Well, has anyone here with a Gmane newsgroup deleted the Gmane email subscription and seen whether Mailman's Mail<->News gateway sends messages in both directions okay ? Unfortunately I don't have a Gmane "test" account. :-( Regards, John. From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Jan 21 08:38:23 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:38:23 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87tyufgb68.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> John Fitzsimons writes: > Well, has anyone here with a Gmane newsgroup deleted the Gmane email > subscription and seen whether Mailman's Mail<->News gateway sends > messages in both directions okay ? Gmane runs a news server, but that is not how it gateways mailing lists. Mailman's Mail<->News gateway is irrelevant unless you or your ISP has configured it; Gmane can't do that for you. The gateway Mailman -> Gmane is the Gmane subscription. If you remove that Gmane users cannot read posts to your mailing list. The gateway Gmane -> Mailman is plain old email same as for any member or spammer. The only control you have is to use Mailman filters on incoming posts. Until somebody tells us what headers Gmane provides to identify itself, we can only guess at what might work. From rb211 at tds.net Thu Jan 21 12:07:35 2010 From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 06:07:35 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <87tyufgb68.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87tyufgb68.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <201001210607.35862.rb211@tds.net> On Thursday 21 January 2010, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > The only control you have is to use Mailman filters on incoming posts. > Until somebody tells us what headers Gmane provides to identify > itself, we can only guess at what might work. X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Seems to be the most consistently used. I found examples in my personal archives of a gated list going back as far as 2003. Googling the header gets hits as recent as last month so it is still in use. They also add an, X-Complaints-To: header in the form of X-Complaints-To: usenet@'something'.gmane.org Where 'something' can be main, sea, or ger. Also various path headers and usually a message ID. None of these seem consistant enough to use for filtering. -- William From darren.young at chicagobooth.edu Thu Jan 21 12:59:33 2010 From: darren.young at chicagobooth.edu (Young, Darren) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:59:33 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: <4B5787A7.7070701@msapiro.net> References: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD982@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> <4B5787A7.7070701@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DDBFA@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Yea, ArchRunner is running: [root at bushlms01 archive]# ps -eaf | grep -i arch mailman 2090 2077 0 Jan20 ? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive is empty: [root at bushlms01 archive]# pwd /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive [root at bushlms01 archive]# ls -l total 0 I'll put in to have Mailman brought up to 2.1.x during a maintenance window. 2.1.13 appears to be the latest in the 2.1.x series, would that be the one to go with now? Any other thoughts? Python version issues with archiving? > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 4:46 PM > To: mailman-users at python.org; Young, Darren > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives > > Young, Darren wrote: > > > Not much, close in all of them: > > > As I said in another recent reply - "If I had a nickel for every time I > didn't realize the obvious ..." :) > > Is ArchRunner running? What's in /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive? > > > > The only one that sticks out but was earlier: > > > > Jan 20 12:47:42 2009 (9809) admin.py access for non-existent list: > > daily-job-postings > > Jan 20 12:47:50 2009 (9813) admin.py access for non-existent list: > > daily-job-postings > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): Traceback (most recent call > last): > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File > > "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ? > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): main() > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File > > "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): qrunner.run() > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File > > "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 87, in run > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): self._cleanup() > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File > > "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 220, in > > _cleanup > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): BounceMixin._cleanup(self) > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File > > "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 132, in > > _cleanup > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): self._register_bounces() > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File > > "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 120, in > > _register_bounces > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): mlist.registerBounce(addr, > msg, > > day=day) > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File > > "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 131, in registerBounce > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', > day + > > (0,)*6)) > > Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): ValueError : day of year out of > > range > > This is an incompatibility between Mailman 2.1.5 and older and Python > 2.4.x and newer. If you can't upgrade Mailman, the attached > Bouncer.py.patch will fix it. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From darren.young at chicagobooth.edu Thu Jan 21 13:00:14 2010 From: darren.young at chicagobooth.edu (Young, Darren) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 06:00:14 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: <20100120225151.GI3079@amyl.org.uk> References: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DD81D@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> <20100120225151.GI3079@amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DDBFB@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> > Just picking up on something, did you enable archiving before a > post has been sent; i.e., has archiving been set before >1 message > has been sent to the list? > Yep, it was enabled first. From johnf at net2000.com.au Thu Jan 21 13:49:56 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:49:56 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <87tyufgb68.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87tyufgb68.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:38:23 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >John Fitzsimons writes: Hi Stephen, < snip > >Gmane runs a news server, but that is not how it gateways mailing >lists. Mailman's Mail<->News gateway is irrelevant unless you or your >ISP has configured it; Gmane can't do that for you. Well, I configured it. Thinking that it needed to be set. Doesn't that setting do anything ? Or does it only work with some news servers and not others ? How does one know which news server that works with and which news server it doesn't work with ? >The gateway Mailman -> Gmane is the Gmane subscription. If you remove >that Gmane users cannot read posts to your mailing list. The gateway >Gmane -> Mailman is plain old email same as for any member or spammer. >The only control you have is to use Mailman filters on incoming posts. Could you please explain that a little ? In principle how would filters help ? Wouldn't all posts from Gmane have the same added headers ? Those that are from legitimate posters and those that aren't ? >Until somebody tells us what headers Gmane provides to identify >itself, we can only guess at what might work. Well, looking for "gmane" headers on a post gives me something like... Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail Approved: news at gmane.org by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ........ Xref: news.gmane.org ....... Archived-At: I have no idea how any of that could help filter out posts that aren't from legitimate subscribers. :-( Regards, John. From barry at list.org Thu Jan 21 15:21:58 2010 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:21:58 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: <87iqaygk9e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20100119222317.5457f0da@freewill> <54vcl5h3cd8eikfukrg2v89djv8pqcgnpu@4ax.com> <20100119233532.78626b59@freewill> Message-ID: <20100121092158.3491c55d@freewill> On Jan 21, 2010, at 02:26 AM, John Fitzsimons wrote: >I am not sure whether you could get/see the source code for either of >these BUT in any case they might give you a few ideas. Even though not >exactly what we have been discussing. > >http://henmedia.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=35 > >and.. > >http://sourceforge.net/projects/m2f/ Thanks for the links John. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mreagan at auromira.com Thu Jan 21 06:56:46 2010 From: mreagan at auromira.com (Melodie Reagan) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 22:56:46 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can you help me? Message-ID: <030f01ca9a5e$8bf91280$a3eb3780$@com> Your help please. I'm trying to use this tool through hostgator and have set-up and email list; however, it won't let me do anything with it because it says. What does this mean and what should I do, or can you direct me to documentation. Thank you! There currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman mailing lists on tierockies.org.To visit the administrators configuration page for an unadvertised list, open a URL similar to this one, but with a '/' and the right list name appended. If you have the proper authority, you can also create a new mailing list . General list information can be found at the mailing list overview page . (Send questions and comments to mailman at tierockies.org.) Best always, Melodie Reagan, Talent Executive Auro|miraR Your Partner for Talent Teams, Contract Staffing & Recruitment. o 303.554.0958 | m 720.253.3736 | f 303.600.0026 | mreagan at auromira.com | www.auromira.com (LinkedIn: www.linkedin/in/auromira Invite Me!) 2010 Chairman, TiE-Rockies, a chapter of the largest organization fostering entrepreneurship | www.rockies.tie.org 2009-2010 Board Director, NAAAP Colorado. We Make Leaders! | www.naaapcolorado.org 2010 Advisory Committee, Colorado Companies to Watch Awards Program | www.colorado.companiestowatch.org This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply E-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Jan 21 15:56:47 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:56:47 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <201001210607.35862.rb211@tds.net> References: <87tyufgb68.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <201001210607.35862.rb211@tds.net> Message-ID: <87pr53fqvk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> William Bagwell writes: > On Thursday 21 January 2010, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > The only control you have is to use Mailman filters on incoming posts. > > Until somebody tells us what headers Gmane provides to identify > > itself, we can only guess at what might work. > > X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. Unless the OP is willing to try to get Mailman patched, it needs to be the envelope sender, From, or Sender. And since Gmane gets past moderation, it has to be in one of those already. One of the other headers could be used in theory, by using a spam filter. Unfortunately, that would requiring customizing the pipeline since the member checks come after SpamFilter in the pipeline. From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 21 16:10:04 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:10:04 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DDBFA@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: Young, Darren wrote: >Yea, ArchRunner is running: > >[root at bushlms01 archive]# ps -eaf | grep -i arch >mailman 2090 2077 0 Jan20 ? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python >/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s OK >/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive is empty: > >[root at bushlms01 archive]# pwd >/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive > >[root at bushlms01 archive]# ls -l >total 0 What is the timestamp if you do "ls -ld" here? >I'll put in to have Mailman brought up to 2.1.x during a maintenance >window. 2.1.13 appears to be the latest in the 2.1.x series, would that >be the one to go with now? Yes. 2.1.13 is the version to go with. It requires at least Python 2.4.x. There are some potential issues. If your current Mailman version is 2.1.5 (or later), the migration is no problem at all, but there is a potential compatibility issue with some Python 2.4.x versions and possibly Python 2.5, but not 2.5.x. See the March 2009 update in the FAQ at . If your current Mailman is older than 2.1.5, see the UPGRADING document in the 2.1.13 tarball or at >Any other thoughts? Python version issues with archiving? I don't think any of this has anything to do with your archiving problem. To summarize, - for the list Archiving Options -> archive is set to Yes (have you verified this?) - a post or posts were sent to the list and delivered to the list members with archive set to Yes - ArchRunner is running - there's nothing in qfiles/archive - there are no relevant errors in logs/error I can't understand how all of the above can be true. Are there other lists in this installation with archives? If so, does archiving work for them? One other thought. Is it possible that your test posts contain an X-No-Archive: header or an "X-Archive: No" header? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu Thu Jan 21 16:14:13 2010 From: Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu (Young, Darren) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:14:13 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: References: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DDBFA@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DDCE5@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> > What is the timestamp if you do "ls -ld" here? [root at bushlms01 archive]# pwd /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive [root at bushlms01 archive]# ls -ld drwxrws--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jan 20 16:04 . > I don't think any of this has anything to do with your archiving > problem. To summarize, > - for the list Archiving Options -> archive is set to Yes (have you > verified this?) Yes, it's there > - a post or posts were sent to the list and delivered to the list > members with archive set to Yes Yep. > - ArchRunner is running Yep. > - there's nothing in qfiles/archive Nope. > - there are no relevant errors in logs/error Nope. > I can't understand how all of the above can be true. Me neither. > > Are there other lists in this installation with archives? If so, does > archiving work for them? No, we've never had archiving at all on any, just starting to try it now > > One other thought. Is it possible that your test posts contain an > X-No-Archive: header or an "X-Archive: No" header? I don't believe so but I'll check the headers to be sure. From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Jan 21 16:28:57 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:28:57 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: <87tyufgb68.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87ocknfpdy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> John Fitzsimons writes: > On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:38:23 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > >John Fitzsimons writes: > > Hi Stephen, > > < snip > > > >Gmane runs a news server, but that is not how it gateways mailing > >lists. Mailman's Mail<->News gateway is irrelevant unless you or your > >ISP has configured it; Gmane can't do that for you. > > Well, I configured it. Thinking that it needed to be set. Doesn't that > setting do anything ? Or does it only work with some news servers and > not others ? How does one know which news server that works with and > which news server it doesn't work with ? I don't know about cPanel, but this is what a vanilla Mailman provides as options for the news<->mail gateway: 1. The hostname of the machine your news server is running on. [ ] 2. The name of the Usenet group to gateway to and/or from. [ ] 3. Should new posts to the mailing list be sent to the newsgroup? No Yes 4. Should new posts to the newsgroup be sent to the mailing list? No Yes 5. Forwarding options [ ] 6. The moderation policy of the newsgroup. [ ] AFAIK the gateway service of Gmane is *not* accessible from most Usenet hosts; you need to go directly to Gmane for that. So unless the you configured Gmane as the news server (question 1) and a specific newsgroup to gateway your list to (question 2), nothing will happen. Since you don't have a newsgroup as far as I know, there's nowhere for mailman to gateway to. Note that question 6 is the policy of the newsgroup, *not* your list. No help there. > >The gateway Mailman -> Gmane is the Gmane subscription. If you remove > >that Gmane users cannot read posts to your mailing list. The gateway > >Gmane -> Mailman is plain old email same as for any member or spammer. > > >The only control you have is to use Mailman filters on incoming posts. > > Could you please explain that a little ? In principle how would > filters help ? Wouldn't all posts from Gmane have the same added > headers ? Those that are from legitimate posters and those that > aren't ? Yes. What you're missing is that Gmane won't spoof other members, so if another member is there in From, Sender or envelope sender, you pass it. (In practice, the only one that your users are likely to be able to set, or have set appropriately by their ISP, is From.) If it's just Gmane, you don't. *If* Gmane is in the Sender header, then you don't need to do anything special, because From is checked first. Just moderate Gmane, and warn your members that they need to post "From:" their subscribed addresses from Gmane as well as by mail. > Well, looking for "gmane" headers on a post gives me something like... > > Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail > Approved: news at gmane.org > by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) > by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) > X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ > X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ........ > Xref: news.gmane.org ....... > Archived-At: > > I have no idea how any of that could help filter out posts that aren't > from legitimate subscribers. :-( (Is that a post received via news? If so, it's little help, because the headers should be quite different from a mailed post.) We really need to see the From, Sender, and Resent-Sender headers, and the envelope sender on the mail received by mailman. Sender really SHOULD be there in mail received by Mailman from Gmane. From RFC 5322 (the current Proposed Standard from email): For example, if a secretary were to send a message for another person, the mailbox of the secretary would appear in the "Sender:" field and the mailbox of the actual author would appear in the "From:" field. If the originator of the message can be indicated by a single mailbox and the author and transmitter are identical, the "Sender:" field SHOULD NOT be used. Otherwise, both fields SHOULD appear. Here Gmane is functioning as a "secretary", and IMO should appear in "Sender", while your list member is the author, and should appear in "From". If not, and Gmane *isn't* in one of From, Sender, or envelope sender, then I don't understand how posts from unsubscribed addresses via Gmane are getting through, since IIRC you said earlier you have 'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. Right? From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 21 16:30:42 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:30:42 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: >On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:38:23 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > >>Gmane runs a news server, but that is not how it gateways mailing >>lists. Mailman's Mail<->News gateway is irrelevant unless you or your >>ISP has configured it; Gmane can't do that for you. > >Well, I configured it. Thinking that it needed to be set. Doesn't that >setting do anything ? Or does it only work with some news servers and >not others ? How does one know which news server that works with and >which news server it doesn't work with ? Please tell us specifically what your Mailman List's Mail<->News gateways settings are? In particular, if your Gmane posts are arriving at Mailman via Mailman's News->Mail Gateway (gateway_to_mail = Yes), Mailman is going to accept everything that comes via that path except for those posts which it sent via gateway_to_news. On the other hand, if the Gmane posts are arriving by mail, as I understand your requirement, you can't do any filtering on Gmane headers because you do not want to either accept, hold or rejece ALL posts from Gmane. You want to accept without holding, those and only those posts which are From: certain addresses. As I have said before in this thread, as long as the Gmane posts are considered to be from a member, the way to do this is to make the acceptable From: addresses members too. [...] > >Well, looking for "gmane" headers on a post gives me something like... > >Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail >Approved: news at gmane.org > by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) > by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) >X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ >X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ........ >Xref: news.gmane.org ....... >Archived-At: > >I have no idea how any of that could help filter out posts that aren't >from legitimate subscribers. :-( That seems to indicate a message from NNTP -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 21 16:46:15 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:46:15 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can you help me? In-Reply-To: <030f01ca9a5e$8bf91280$a3eb3780$@com> Message-ID: Melodie Reagan wrote: >Your help please. I'm trying to use this tool through hostgator and have >set-up and email list; however, it won't let me do anything with it because >it says. What does this mean and what should I do, or can you direct me to >documentation. Thank you! It is going to be hard for us to help because this is a cPanel Mailman (see the FAQ at ). You will probably have to get any needed help from hostgator. However... >There currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman > mailing lists on >tierockies.org.To visit the administrators configuration page for an >unadvertised list, open a URL similar to this one, but with a '/' and the >right list name appended. If you have the proper authority, you can also >create a new mailing list . > >General list information can be found at the mailing list overview page > . If you have successfully created a list via cPanel (I don't know how that is done), your list has two names. One name is used for posting, etc. Let's say for this discussion that that name is mylist as in mylist at tierockies.org. There is also a cPanel name which is used in the web interface. This name in this example is mylist_tierockies.org. So, the web admin interface for this example list is at . Try that, using the actual list name you created in place of 'mylist'. Some documentation is at or , but some of this is incomplete and may not apply to cPanel. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 21 17:04:00 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 08:04:00 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DDCE5@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: Young, Darren wrote: >> What is the timestamp if you do "ls -ld" here? > >[root at bushlms01 archive]# pwd >/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive >[root at bushlms01 archive]# ls -ld >drwxrws--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jan 20 16:04 . So your messages are reaching the archive queue (because it is being updated through Jan 20 16:04) and ArchRunner is processing the messages (because the queue is empty) What does ls -lAR /usr/local/mailman/archives/ show? [...] >> One other thought. Is it possible that your test posts contain an >> X-No-Archive: header or an "X-Archive: No" header? >I don't believe so but I'll check the headers to be sure. Since it appears posts are reaching the archive queue, this wouldn't be the issue. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Thu Jan 21 23:10:28 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:10:28 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <87ocknfpdy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87tyufgb68.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ocknfpdy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:28:57 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >John Fitzsimons writes: Hi Stephen, < snip > > > >Gmane runs a news server, but that is not how it gateways mailing > > >lists. Mailman's Mail<->News gateway is irrelevant unless you or your > > >ISP has configured it; Gmane can't do that for you. > > Well, I configured it. Thinking that it needed to be set. Doesn't that > > setting do anything ? Or does it only work with some news servers and > > not others ? How does one know which news server that works with and > > which news server it doesn't work with ? >I don't know about cPanel, but this is what a vanilla Mailman provides >as options for the news<->mail gateway: >1. The hostname of the machine your news server is running on. [ ] >2. The name of the Usenet group to gateway to and/or from. [ ] >3. Should new posts to the mailing list be sent to the newsgroup? No Yes >4. Should new posts to the newsgroup be sent to the mailing list? No Yes >5. Forwarding options [ ] >6. The moderation policy of the newsgroup. [ ] >AFAIK the gateway service of Gmane is *not* accessible from most >Usenet hosts; Yep. But we are talking about newsgroup access here. Not usenet. There are a number of newsgroup servers around the world that aren't usenet. The GRC ones come to mind. >you need to go directly to Gmane for that. Agreed. Though I fail to see what that has to do with a news server gateway. Surely the Mailman setting can only accept one news server address at a time ? So whether the server is peering to hundreds/thousands of other servers is surely irrelevant ? >So unless >the you configured Gmane as the news server (question 1) and a I did. >specific newsgroup to gateway your list to (question 2), I did. >nothing will >happen. Since you don't have a newsgroup as far as I know, there's >nowhere for mailman to gateway to. >Note that question 6 is the policy of the newsgroup, *not* your list. >No help there. Yes, that is ideally where authentication should operate. Each legitimate member should be allocated a valid login password. Hopefully Barry will provide that capability if he can add a news server option to Mailman. > > >The gateway Mailman -> Gmane is the Gmane subscription. If you remove > > >that Gmane users cannot read posts to your mailing list. The gateway > > >Gmane -> Mailman is plain old email same as for any member or spammer. > > >The only control you have is to use Mailman filters on incoming posts. > > Could you please explain that a little ? In principle how would > > filters help ? Wouldn't all posts from Gmane have the same added > > headers ? Those that are from legitimate posters and those that > > aren't ? >Yes. What you're missing is that Gmane won't spoof other members, so >if another member is there in From, Sender or envelope sender, you >pass it. (In practice, the only one that your users are likely to be >able to set, or have set appropriately by their ISP, is From.) If >it's just Gmane, you don't. *If* Gmane is in the Sender header, Could you please clarify those words ? " *If* Gmane is in the Sender header". The sender header appears to be the list address. There are so many headers I am totally confused as to which ones can/should be filtered on and which ones shouldn't be. Here are some of the headers as they appear when they arrive at the mailing list. Are any of them able to be used in filtering ? Return-path: Envelope-to: me at mydomain Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=panda.hostingbay.net) by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NXp0j-0004O3-Kl for me at mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:51:13 +1100 Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NXp0a-0004MT-1K for listname at mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:51:11 +1100 Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1NXp0W-0003h5-6a for listname at mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100 Received: from c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au ([114.76.0.218]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100 Received: from gmane by c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: listname at mydomain From: John Fitzsimons Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: usenet at ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au X-BeenThere: listname at mydomain Precedence: list Reply-To: Computer Freeware Discussion Sender: listname-bounces at mydomain Errors-To: listname-bounces at mydomain X-ACL-Warn: { X-Agent-Received: from aspects (gmane) (mail.mydomain); Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:51:24 +1100 As I am an "authorised" poster the sort of filter that would be needed that comes to mind would be something like... DELETE & ! From: {me at mydomain | member at hisdomain} But I have no idea how that would need to be implimented in Mailman. >then >you don't need to do anything special, because From is checked first. >Just moderate Gmane, Just moderate ? I haven't done that before. Do I need to do more than just set the Gmane subscription to "moderate" ? >and warn your members that they need to post >"From:" their subscribed addresses from Gmane as well as by mail. Yes, I have already told them that. > > Well, looking for "gmane" headers on a post gives me something like... > > Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail > > Approved: news at gmane.org > > by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) > > by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) > > X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ > > X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ........ > > Xref: news.gmane.org ....... > > Archived-At: > > I have no idea how any of that could help filter out posts that aren't > > from legitimate subscribers. :-( >(Is that a post received via news? Yes, ALL headers are received via news ! All my members of this list want it that way. They are only interested in posting via a newsreader. > If so, it's little help, because >the headers should be quite different from a mailed post.) Okay, see the added info I provided above. >We really need to see the From, Sender, and Resent-Sender headers, and >the envelope sender on the mail received by mailman. Sender really >SHOULD be there in mail received by Mailman from Gmane. From RFC 5322 >(the current Proposed Standard from email): > For example, if a secretary were to send a message for another > person, the mailbox of the secretary would appear in the "Sender:" > field and the mailbox of the actual author would appear in the > "From:" field. If the originator of the message can be indicated > by a single mailbox and the author and transmitter are identical, > the "Sender:" field SHOULD NOT be used. Otherwise, both fields > SHOULD appear. >Here Gmane is functioning as a "secretary", and IMO should appear in >"Sender", while your list member is the author, and should appear in >"From". From looking at the first set of headers above the list member does appear to be in the From section. >If not, and Gmane *isn't* in one of From, Sender, or envelope sender, >then I don't understand how posts from unsubscribed addresses via >Gmane are getting through, since IIRC you said earlier you have >'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. Right? Sorry, your terminology has confused me here. What do you mean by 'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. ? I have setup the list as "Require approval". Is that what you mean ? Thank you for your help. If you, or anyone else, can work out how we Gmaners can stop "unauthorised" posters posting I am sure that there will be very many appreciative Mailman/Gmane users. Regards, John. From rb211 at tds.net Fri Jan 22 01:29:50 2010 From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:29:50 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <201001202012.43384.rb211@tds.net> References: <201001202012.43384.rb211@tds.net> Message-ID: <201001211929.50767.rb211@tds.net> On Wednesday 20 January 2010, William Bagwell wrote: > On Wednesday 20 January 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > John Fitzsimons wrote: > > >Private archive file not found > > > > It translates to > > > > http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/myma > >il inglist.mbox > > > > where mydomain is your host name and mymailinglist is the cPanel list > > name of the form listname_mydomain. Note that mymailinglist.mbox > > appears twice, as a directory and a file. > > Mark, I can confirm what John is getting and am willing to post the > real URL to the list and send the *user* password directly to you if > necessary. (Its just a test list with two archived posts, both by > myself) Moving this back to the list. A bit of odd behavior here with both Konqueror and Firefox. First, I know the example link to the tiny test list I sent you off list was slightly broken. (missing the first .mbox) And the fixed version you sent back worked perfectly. However, I noticed it had by passed the authentication screen due to my user name & password being saved in cookies. Tried your 'corrected' link in a diffrent browser, got the authentication page, logged in with user name and password and promptly got the "Private archive file not found" error again. Looked at the URL and it was now missing the first .mbox. Opened a new tab, pasted in the full correct URL and it pulled down a complete archive. So, even when you know the exact location of the archives, something still tries to hide them. Now I just need to get brave and try editing them and see what breaks:) Want to thank John for asking and you for answering! While Gmane and gateways are interesting, they are way down on my list of priorities. Knowing the true location of archives is useful right now. -- William From johnf at net2000.com.au Fri Jan 22 02:01:14 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:01:14 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <201001211929.50767.rb211@tds.net> References: <201001202012.43384.rb211@tds.net> <201001211929.50767.rb211@tds.net> Message-ID: <2cthl5tshvntt8tq403ed7t68bold8jb9n@4ax.com> On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:29:50 -0500, William Bagwell wrote: >On Wednesday 20 January 2010, William Bagwell wrote: >> On Wednesday 20 January 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> > John Fitzsimons wrote: < snip > >> > It translates to >> > http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/myma >> >il inglist.mbox < snip > >Tried your 'corrected' link in a diffrent browser, got the authentication >page, logged in with user name and password and promptly got the "Private >archive file not found" error again. Looked at the URL and it was now >missing the first .mbox. Opened a new tab, pasted in the full correct URL >and it pulled down a complete archive. I can get to my archive by going to.. http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist_mydomain/ The messages show okay but without header info. If I do what you did above and use .. http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox I get "No such list" mymailinglist. < snip > >Knowing the true location of archives is useful right now. I would like to know how to access the archive file so that I can delete it by FTP. I cannot however find it ! Maybe my web hoster has somehow made the directory invisible ? Pity CPanel doesn't have a "Delete Archive" button. :-( Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 02:09:20 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:09:20 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <2cthl5tshvntt8tq403ed7t68bold8jb9n@4ax.com> Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: > >If I do what you did above and use .. > >http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox > >I get "No such list" mymailinglist. As I have tried to say before, >>where mydomain is your host name and mymailinglist is the cPanel list >>name of the form listname_mydomain. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 02:18:10 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:18:10 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: >On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:28:57 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > >Could you please clarify those words ? " *If* Gmane is in the Sender >header". The sender header appears to be the list address. This is all irrelevant. Since the posts from Gmane are arriving via the NNTP gateway, no membership tests whatsoever are applied to the post - no list member, no moderation, no *_these_nonmembers. >There are so many headers I am totally confused as to which ones >can/should be filtered on and which ones shouldn't be. You can use header_filter_rules to hold a post from the news gateway. You can filter on any header you want, but this won't work well unless you have fery few authorized posters. >Here are some of the headers as they appear when they arrive at the >mailing list. Are any of them able to be used in filtering ? > >Return-path: >Envelope-to: me at mydomain >Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=panda.hostingbay.net) > by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) > (envelope-from ) > id 1NXp0j-0004O3-Kl > for me at mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:51:13 +1100 >Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) > by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) > (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) > id 1NXp0a-0004MT-1K > for listname at mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:51:11 +1100 >Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id >1NXp0W-0003h5-6a > for listname at mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100 >Received: from c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au >([114.76.0.218]) > by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) > id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 > for ; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100 >Received: from gmane by c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au with >local > (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 > for ; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100 >X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ >To: listname at mydomain >From: John Fitzsimons >Message-ID: >X-Complaints-To: usenet at ger.gmane.org >X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au >X-BeenThere: listname at mydomain >Precedence: list >Reply-To: Computer Freeware Discussion >Sender: listname-bounces at mydomain >Errors-To: listname-bounces at mydomain >X-ACL-Warn: { >X-Agent-Received: from aspects (gmane) (mail.mydomain); Thu, 21 Jan >2010 15:51:24 +1100 > >As I am an "authorised" poster the sort of filter that would be needed >that comes to mind would be something like... > >DELETE & ! From: {me at mydomain | member at hisdomain} > >But I have no idea how that would need to be implimented in Mailman. Like the following in Privacy options... -> Spam filters -> header_filter_rules First rule: regexp: ^from:.*[ >]me at mydomain([> ]|$) action: Accept (either additional rules or additional regexps in the First rule for additional posters) Last rule regexp: ^X-Injected-Via-Gmane: action: Discard >>then >>you don't need to do anything special, because From is checked first. >>Just moderate Gmane, > >Just moderate ? I haven't done that before. Do I need to do more than >just set the Gmane subscription to "moderate" ? It won't help. See above. >>and warn your members that they need to post >>"From:" their subscribed addresses from Gmane as well as by mail. > >Yes, I have already told them that. > [...] >>(Is that a post received via news? > >Yes, ALL headers are received via news ! All my members of this >list want it that way. They are only interested in posting via a >newsreader. They could post to Gmane via NNTP with Gmane sending to your list via email. >> If so, it's little help, because >>the headers should be quite different from a mailed post.) > >Okay, see the added info I provided above. Which contrary to your "Here are some of the headers as they appear when they arrive at the mailing list." assertion appear to be the headers from a post delivered from Mailman, not the headers of the post as it arrived to Mailman. Note that Mailman has rewritten the Sender: and envelope sender (reflected as Return-Path:) and added Errors-To: and maybe Reply-To: [...] >>If not, and Gmane *isn't* in one of From, Sender, or envelope sender, >>then I don't understand how posts from unsubscribed addresses via >>Gmane are getting through, since IIRC you said earlier you have >>'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. Right? > >Sorry, your terminology has confused me here. What do you mean by >'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. ? He means the setting near the bottom of the list admin Privacy options... -> Sender filters page. >I have setup the list as "Require approval". Is that what you mean ? That is presumably Privacy options... -> Subscription rules -> subscribe_policy - not the same thing at all. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 02:28:09 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:28:09 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <201001211929.50767.rb211@tds.net> Message-ID: William Bagwell wrote: > >Tried your 'corrected' link in a diffrent browser, got the authentication >page, logged in with user name and password and promptly got the "Private >archive file not found" error again. Looked at the URL and it was now >missing the first .mbox. Opened a new tab, pasted in the full correct URL >and it pulled down a complete archive. This is a Mailman bug. Once upon a time, not all that long ago, the POST URL for the private archive authentication form was simply http://example.com/mailman/private, so if someone sent you a link to a message of the form http://example.com/mailman/private/list/2009-December/000067.html and you followd that link and got the login page, when you logged in, you just got the archive contents page instead of the post you wanted. I fixed that, but the fix didn't take into account the ".mbox" URLs, hence the bug that you see, and you have to log in first, then go to the correct URL. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From wyldfury at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 17:45:49 2010 From: wyldfury at gmail.com (Guy) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:45:49 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on multiple web and mail servers Message-ID: <4a0444211001210845j4344b749oc5c9933636856b80@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I've been going through the archives and I've picked up bits and pieces of the information I need, but in most cases NFS is discussed. I've got 5 Ubuntu servers, 2 postfix mail gateways (MXs for all our domains) and 3 apache web servers. All of those have access to an ISCSI SAN with OCFS2 partitions. Ideally I'd like to have the mail section running on both gateways (potentially more than just the 2 in the near future) and the web interface available from any of the web servers. This is more for availability than performance. Should separate installations of the web section on each web server be fine or is there shared information needed there? And since I'm using a clustered fs, would I still need to slice up the qfiles directory structure for the mail section? Or would having the entire mailman installation on shared storage and individual apache/postfix configs per machine be the way to go? Any other suggestions or advice about this would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks Guy -- Don't just do something...sit there! From lou at vitalcompr.com Fri Jan 22 01:04:07 2010 From: lou at vitalcompr.com (Lou Covey) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:04:07 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Random email failures Message-ID: We run several lists for a non-profit organization on Mailman and in a couple of the groups, we have somewhat random failures. With some of the members, they cannot receive emails sent to the lists, even though they are on the lists. Some of the members can receive emails, but cannot send to the list. We have checked, rechecked, erases, redone, checked and rechecked but the problem remains for these random members. We have asked the members to check their own IT departments and the response has been that nothing seems to be a problem. Is there anyone we can talk to to see if we are doing something wrong? Lou Covey lou at vitalcompr.com 650-366-8212 650-430-8060 (mobile) commbasics.typepad.com facebook.com/lou.covey twitter.com/loucovey linkedin.com/loucovey Whether it is success or failure, you will always find what you look for From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 02:54:32 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:54:32 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Random email failures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lou Covey wrote: >We run several lists for a non-profit organization on Mailman and in a >couple of the groups, we have somewhat random failures. With some of >the members, they cannot receive emails sent to the lists, even though >they are on the lists. Some of the members can receive emails, but >cannot send to the list. We have checked, rechecked, erases, redone, >checked and rechecked but the problem remains for these random >members. We have asked the members to check their own IT departments >and the response has been that nothing seems to be a problem. Is >there anyone we can talk to to see if we are doing something wrong? Do you have content filtering enabled for the lists? If so, a common posting problem is an HTML only post that gets filtered to nothing by content filtering. Also, if you have access, check Mailman's vette log for discard messages and Mailman's bounce log for possible bounces of outgoing mail. If you have access to the MTA logs, you can check for the disposition of outgoing posts to those members who don't receive them. If they are sent OK and don't bounce, the problem is in the receiving ISP. You can also see if the problem incoming posts reach your server and what is done with them. Also, see the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Fri Jan 22 03:15:37 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 13:15:37 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: <2cthl5tshvntt8tq403ed7t68bold8jb9n@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:09:20 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >>If I do what you did above and use .. >>http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox >>I get "No such list" mymailinglist. >As I have tried to say before, >>>where mydomain is your host name and mymailinglist is the cPanel list >>>name of the form listname_mydomain. Okay, that makes things clearer. Thank you. I have now tried the following. (1) Log into my mailinglist administrative interface. (2) In CPanel clicked on "Go to list archives" (3) I now see the list archives (but no headers). (4) I now put the following address in... http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist_mydomain/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox and get... "Private archive file not found" Now, the first page shows an archive. So I expected the second page to. The reason it doesn't may have to do with my changing the Archive messages? setting to "No" a few days ago. Perhaps that is the problem ? Not the incorrect path ? Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 03:21:49 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:21:49 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: > >(4) I now put the following address in... > >http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist_mydomain/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox > >and get... > >"Private archive file not found" I don't know why this is so hard, but the URL is http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox Try that one. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 03:28:39 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:28:39 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on multiple web and mail servers In-Reply-To: <4a0444211001210845j4344b749oc5c9933636856b80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Guy wrote: > >I've been going through the archives and I've picked up bits and pieces of >the information I need, but in most cases NFS is discussed. >I've got 5 Ubuntu servers, 2 postfix mail gateways (MXs for all our domains) >and 3 apache web servers. All of those have access to an ISCSI SAN with >OCFS2 partitions. > >Ideally I'd like to have the mail section running on both gateways >(potentially more than just the 2 in the near future) and the web interface >available from any of the web servers. This is more for availability than >performance. >Should separate installations of the web section on each web server be fine >or is there shared information needed there? There is shared information in all of the archives, data, lists, locks, logs and qfiles directories. These need to be on shared storage so they are accessible to all web and mail servers. By the 'mail section', I'm guessing you mean the qrunners. The qrunners need access to all the shared data, and if there are multiple qrunners processing the same queue, they need to be sliced so they don't interfere with each other. I suppose you could have a separate set of qrunners and separate mail delivery on each mail server, each with its own set of local qfiles, but they would still need access to the shared archives, data, lists, locks and logs directories (well, they could have their own logs too). >And since I'm using a clustered fs, would I still need to slice up the >qfiles directory structure for the mail section? Slicing is not a directory structure thing. Each queue entry is a file in the corresponding queue directory. E.g., qfiles/in/file. Slicing just divides the file name space into sections each of which is processed by its own runner. >Or would having the entire mailman installation on shared storage and >individual apache/postfix configs per machine be the way to go? It's one way to go. Keep in mind that much of the code is common to all processes, so having local code will result in much duplication. OTOH, it will reduce contention on the shared store. This is not a tradeoff that I can give a pat answer for since I don't know what your load is or what the capability of your shared fs is, and I have virtually no experience with this anyway. >Any other suggestions or advice about this would be greatly appreciated as >well. I hope this helps. If it doesn't answer your questions or raises other, ask again. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Fri Jan 22 03:49:23 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 13:49:23 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:18:10 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Mark, >>On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:28:57 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >>Could you please clarify those words ? " *If* Gmane is in the Sender >>header". The sender header appears to be the list address. >This is all irrelevant. Since the posts from Gmane are arriving via the >NNTP gateway, no membership tests whatsoever are applied to the post - >no list member, no moderation, no *_these_nonmembers. Okay, so to "authenticate" a small number of people eg. dozens what should I have ? (1) The Gmane subscription ? (2) The gateway ? (3) Both ? Just tell me what you think is best. You are the expert here. Not me. I am the dummy. I very much appreciate your help. At the end of the day however I want to impliment a system that actually "works" ! >>There are so many headers I am totally confused as to which ones >>can/should be filtered on and which ones shouldn't be. >You can use header_filter_rules to hold a post from the news gateway. >You can filter on any header you want, but this won't work well unless >you have fery few authorized posters. Well, is there a practical limit to the term "very few" ? Initially I hope to increase subscribers to dozens. The number could however reach something like a hundred. Would that "break" Mailman ? What dictates how many are "too many" ? < snip > >>As I am an "authorised" poster the sort of filter that would be needed >>that comes to mind would be something like... >>DELETE & ! From: {me at mydomain | member at hisdomain} >>But I have no idea how that would need to be implimented in Mailman. >Like the following in Privacy options... -> Spam filters -> >header_filter_rules >First rule: > regexp: ^from:.*[ >]me at mydomain([> ]|$) > action: Accept >(either additional rules or additional regexps in the First rule for >additional posters) Ah ! I like that. Do I insert the above EXACTLY as you have suggested ? regexp: ^from:.*[ >]me at mydomain([> ]|$) action: Accept I need both the "regexp" AND "action" items ? Also, at what approximate number would you recommend expanding the first filter rule in preference to adding new ones ? I am guessing that there may be some sort of a "limit" set as to how many characters in total can be in that box ? >Last rule > regexp: ^X-Injected-Via-Gmane: > action: Discard Okay. < snip > >They could post to Gmane via NNTP with Gmane sending to your list via >email. Okay, so if I get rid of the gateway settings the above filters will still work ? >>> If so, it's little help, because >>>the headers should be quite different from a mailed post.) >>Okay, see the added info I provided above. >Which contrary to your "Here are some of the headers as they appear >when they arrive at the mailing list." assertion appear to be the >headers from a post delivered from Mailman, not the headers of the >post as it arrived to Mailman. Good point. Sorry. If I could show you the raw header info then I would. >Note that Mailman has rewritten the Sender: and envelope sender >(reflected as Return-Path:) and added Errors-To: and maybe Reply-To: >[...] >>>If not, and Gmane *isn't* in one of From, Sender, or envelope sender, >>>then I don't understand how posts from unsubscribed addresses via >>>Gmane are getting through, since IIRC you said earlier you have >>>'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. Right? >>Sorry, your terminology has confused me here. What do you mean by >>'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. ? >He means the setting near the bottom of the list admin Privacy >options... -> Sender filters page. Ah ! Sorry. I am still very much a "newbie" here. I have By default, should new list member postings be moderated? set to "No" and Action to take when a moderated member posts to the list. set to "Hold". I am not sure if I need to change either/both of those settings to make sure the filtering you recommend works. >>I have setup the list as "Require approval". Is that what you mean ? >That is presumably Privacy options... -> Subscription rules -> >subscribe_policy - not the same thing at all. Okay, thanks. I will not change that then. Regards, John. From johnf at net2000.com.au Fri Jan 22 04:06:40 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 14:06:40 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <725il5pm0egkjhf3gm8bk1r7jfltnv6515@4ax.com> On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:21:49 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: < snip > >I don't know why this is so hard, but the URL is >http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox >Try that one. Worked perfectly ! Thank you. Is this all you need ? From gcf-mylist at m.gmane.org Thu Jan 21 00:10:24 2010 Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NXaKC-0008HY-Ns for mylist at mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:10:24 +1100 Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1NXaKA-000092-IA for mylist at mydomain; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 Received: from 78.151.127.180 ([78.151.127.180]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 Received: from poster by 78.151.127.180 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: mylist at mydomain From: "poster" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:09:44 -0000 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: usenet at ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 78.151.127.180 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 Sender: news X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.3 X-Spam-Score: 23 X-Spam-Bar: ++ X-Spam-Flag: NO Subject: [mylist] Zip Extract X-BeenThere: mylist at mydomain X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12.cp3 Precedence: list Reply-To: List info List-Id: List info List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:10:25 -0000 Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 04:45:55 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:45:55 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: >On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:18:10 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >>This is all irrelevant. Since the posts from Gmane are arriving via the >>NNTP gateway, no membership tests whatsoever are applied to the post - >>no list member, no moderation, no *_these_nonmembers. Actually, that is NOT the case, at least for the message in your follow-up post. See my reply to that (when it comes). >Okay, so to "authenticate" a small number of people eg. dozens what >should I have ? > >(1) The Gmane subscription ? >(2) The gateway ? >(3) Both ? I think the best thing for you to have is the Gmane subscription only. >Just tell me what you think is best. You are the expert here. Not me. >I am the dummy. > >I very much appreciate your help. At the end of the day however I want >to impliment a system that actually "works" ! > >>>There are so many headers I am totally confused as to which ones >>>can/should be filtered on and which ones shouldn't be. > >>You can use header_filter_rules to hold a post from the news gateway. >>You can filter on any header you want, but this won't work well unless >>you have fery few authorized posters. > >Well, is there a practical limit to the term "very few" ? Initially I >hope to increase subscribers to dozens. The number could however >reach something like a hundred. Would that "break" Mailman ? What >dictates how many are "too many" ? Too many is more than you are willing to maintain in header filter rules. Mailman doesn't care, but we apparently don't need to do this. See my next reply. >< snip > > >>>As I am an "authorised" poster the sort of filter that would be needed >>>that comes to mind would be something like... > >>>DELETE & ! From: {me at mydomain | member at hisdomain} > >>>But I have no idea how that would need to be implimented in Mailman. > >>Like the following in Privacy options... -> Spam filters -> >>header_filter_rules > >>First rule: >> regexp: ^from:.*[ >]me at mydomain([> ]|$) >> action: Accept > >>(either additional rules or additional regexps in the First rule for >>additional posters) > >Ah ! I like that. Do I insert the above EXACTLY as you have suggested >? > >regexp: ^from:.*[ >]me at mydomain([> ]|$) >action: Accept > >I need both the "regexp" AND "action" items ? > >Also, at what approximate number would you recommend expanding the >first filter rule in preference to adding new ones ? I am guessing >that there may be some sort of a "limit" set as to how many characters >in total can be in that box ? > >>Last rule >> regexp: ^X-Injected-Via-Gmane: >> action: Discard > >Okay. > >< snip > > >>They could post to Gmane via NNTP with Gmane sending to your list via >>email. > >Okay, so if I get rid of the gateway settings the above filters will >still work ? I will give you a recipe in the next reply, but the short answer is No. >>>> If so, it's little help, because >>>>the headers should be quite different from a mailed post.) > >>>Okay, see the added info I provided above. > >>Which contrary to your "Here are some of the headers as they appear >>when they arrive at the mailing list." assertion appear to be the >>headers from a post delivered from Mailman, not the headers of the >>post as it arrived to Mailman. > >Good point. Sorry. If I could show you the raw header info then I >would. > >>Note that Mailman has rewritten the Sender: and envelope sender >>(reflected as Return-Path:) and added Errors-To: and maybe Reply-To: > > >>[...] >>>>If not, and Gmane *isn't* in one of From, Sender, or envelope sender, >>>>then I don't understand how posts from unsubscribed addresses via >>>>Gmane are getting through, since IIRC you said earlier you have >>>>'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. Right? > >>>Sorry, your terminology has confused me here. What do you mean by >>>'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. ? > >>He means the setting near the bottom of the list admin Privacy >>options... -> Sender filters page. > >Ah ! Sorry. I am still very much a "newbie" here. I have > >By default, should new list member postings be moderated? set to "No" > >and > >Action to take when a moderated member posts to the list. set to >"Hold". > >I am not sure if I need to change either/both of those settings to >make sure the filtering you recommend works. See my next reply. >>>I have setup the list as "Require approval". Is that what you mean ? > >>That is presumably Privacy options... -> Subscription rules -> >>subscribe_policy - not the same thing at all. > >Okay, thanks. I will not change that then. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 05:17:32 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 20:17:32 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <725il5pm0egkjhf3gm8bk1r7jfltnv6515@4ax.com> Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: > >Worked perfectly ! Thank you. Is this all you need ? > >>From gcf-mylist at m.gmane.org Thu Jan 21 00:10:24 2010 >Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) > by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) > (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) > id 1NXaKC-0008HY-Ns > for mylist at mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:10:24 +1100 >Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id >1NXaKA-000092-IA > for mylist at mydomain; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 >Received: from 78.151.127.180 ([78.151.127.180]) > by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) > id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 > for ; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 >Received: from poster by 78.151.127.180 with local (Gmexim 0.1 >(Debian)) > id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 > for ; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 >X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ >To: mylist at mydomain >From: "poster" >Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:09:44 -0000 >Message-ID: >X-Complaints-To: usenet at ger.gmane.org >X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 78.151.127.180 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >Importance: Normal >X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 >Sender: news >X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.3 >X-Spam-Score: 23 >X-Spam-Bar: ++ >X-Spam-Flag: NO >Subject: [mylist] Zip Extract >X-BeenThere: mylist at mydomain >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12.cp3 >Precedence: list >Reply-To: List info >List-Id: List info > >List-Unsubscribe: , > >List-Archive: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: , > >X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:10:25 -0000 > This message was delivered by email from Gmane to mailman. It was apperently posted via NNTP to Gmane by the poster and then mailed by Gmane to the list. Here are the relevant things. The envelope is from gcf-mylist at m.gmane.org The Sender: is news The From: is "poster" Presumably either gcf-mylist at m.gmane.org or news at ger.gmane.org is a member of your list. Most likely gcf-mylist at m.gmane.org as news at ger.gmane.org seems more generic. Here's what you do: On Privacy options... -> Sender filters, set - member_moderation_action to Hold to start, later you can set it to Discard, but don't set it to Reject. - generic_nonmember_action to Hold or Discard. On Membership Management... -> Membership List check the mod box for the gmane member. Then make sure all authorized posters are list members and their mod box is unchecked. On General Options, set respond_to_post_requests to No, at least as long as member_moderation_action is Hold. This is to avoid confusing Gmane be sending stuff back to it. Then when a post arrives, the From is checked first, and if it is from an unmoderated member, the post goes to the list. If it is from a non-member, the envelope sender and Sender: headers are checked and one of these (presumably just gcf-mylist at m.gmane.org) is a moderated member so the post is dealt with per member_moderation_action. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Fri Jan 22 05:32:46 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:32:46 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: <725il5pm0egkjhf3gm8bk1r7jfltnv6515@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 20:17:32 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Mark, < snip > >This message was delivered by email from Gmane to mailman. It was >apperently posted via NNTP to Gmane by the poster and then mailed by >Gmane to the list. Hopefully Gmane waits for the reply to the list email before it "accepts" the post. >Here are the relevant things. >The envelope is from gcf-mylist at m.gmane.org >The Sender: is news >The From: is "poster" >Presumably either gcf-mylist at m.gmane.org or news at ger.gmane.org is a >member of your list. Most likely gcf-mylist at m.gmane.org as >news at ger.gmane.org seems more generic. Correct. >Here's what you do: < snip > Wow ! That looks impressive. I will have to read that carefully, apply the steps, and do some testing. Thank you for your amazing patience and help with this. It is very much appreciated. :-) Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 05:58:01 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 20:58:01 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark Sapiro wrote: > >This is a Mailman bug. > [...] > >I fixed that, but the fix didn't take into account the ".mbox" URLs, >hence the bug that you see, and you have to log in first, then go to >the correct URL. I have committed a fix for this and updated the original bug report at . The actual fix is at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Jan 22 06:31:24 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 14:31:24 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87fx5yg0yb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Mark Sapiro writes: > This is all irrelevant. Since the posts from Gmane are arriving via the > NNTP gateway, no membership tests whatsoever are applied to the post - > no list member, no moderation, no *_these_nonmembers. Are you sure? The way I read Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NXp0a-0004MT-1K for listname at mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:51:11 +1100 is that it's coming in by SMTP, not via NNTP. In the post as John receives it, we have Sender: listname-bounces at mydomain but elsewhere he reports that the mbox file contains From gcf-mylist at m.gmane.org Thu Jan 21 00:10:24 2010 Sender: news From: "poster" So the news@ Sender: should have nothing to do with the stealth approval via gmane, and the gcf-mylist@ envelope sender presumably is what is getting those posts through when "poster" is *not* a member. (I think that envelope sender is a bug in Gmane.) AFAICS, just moderate gcf-MYLIST at m.gmane.org and Gmane will no longer be a vector for stealth posts by nonmembers. When "poster" is a member, From: is checked by Mailman before Sender: or the envelope sender, so will be approved automatically. > >There are so many headers I am totally confused as to which ones > >can/should be filtered on and which ones shouldn't be. Up to now, you didn't need to ask, because we didn't know either. This is very complex, and cannot be simplified at this stage. For now, just follow instructions, get the information we need and install and test the necessary Mailman options. Getting the information is done, I think. The next step is to try the setting the option, either live on your list (slight risk of getting through which would be a minor nuisance to your member) or borrow William Bagwell's test list (if that's what he has set up, AIUI). Once you're satisfied that it's working as you want, *then* we can explain enough, in straightforward and concrete terms, so that you can be confident it will keep working, and have some background info about your own setup if something goes wonky in the future. (You probably won't be able to fix it on your own, but if and when you come back, we'll be able to get to the point much quicker than this time.) From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Jan 22 06:51:24 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 14:51:24 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: <725il5pm0egkjhf3gm8bk1r7jfltnv6515@4ax.com> Message-ID: <87eilig00z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> John Fitzsimons writes: > >This message was delivered by email from Gmane to mailman. It was > >apperently posted via NNTP to Gmane by the poster and then mailed by > >Gmane to the list. > > Hopefully Gmane waits for the reply to the list email before it > "accepts" the post. I'm not sure what you're asking, but I'm pretty sure it is not the case. There is no "reply" to wait for. Both email and netnews are designed as store and forward. The process is - Someone connects to your system. - She sends you a message. - You accept the message. - You make sure it is safely stored on your system. - You tell the system you got it from "OK, I've got it, you can stop worrying now." - Finally, you end the connection. However, at this stage there is no sense in which anybody knows that delivery to the addressee will succeed. Now you try to send it to the next hop, following the same procedure as above. If it is refused at any stage, the last system to have accepted the message will send an error message back to the author (there are some details I'm omitting, and differences between mail and news, but that's the basic idea). The "accept, store, forward" process happens both at the poster -> Gmane, and the Gmane -> Mailman stages. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 16:00:04 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 07:00:04 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <87eilig00z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >John Fitzsimons writes: > > > >This message was delivered by email from Gmane to mailman. It was > > >apperently posted via NNTP to Gmane by the poster and then mailed by > > >Gmane to the list. > > > > Hopefully Gmane waits for the reply to the list email before it > > "accepts" the post. > >I'm not sure what you're asking, but I'm pretty sure it is not the >case. There is no "reply" to wait for. Both email and netnews are >designed as store and forward. The process is I think what John wants to happen is the following. Whether it actually works this way or not, I don't know, but I think it might. - User posts via NNTP to Gmane list. - Gmane accepts the message and mails it to Mailman but does not add it to its archive at this point. This is what John wants. Eventually, we'll find out if it works. I suspect it does, because whatever messages Mailman retrieved via NNTP were apparently not in Mailman's archive so they must have had Mailman's X-BeenThere: header. - Mailman accepts, holds, discards, whatever the post. - Accepted posts are mailed to the list members, one of whom is Gmane. - Gmane receives the mailed post and archives it. Thus, Gmane acts as an NNTP posting gateway to Mailman but we hope only persistently stores those messages accepted by Mailman. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 16:15:21 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 07:15:21 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <87fx5yg0yb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >Mark Sapiro writes: > > > This is all irrelevant. Since the posts from Gmane are arriving via the > > NNTP gateway, no membership tests whatsoever are applied to the post - > > no list member, no moderation, no *_these_nonmembers. > >Are you sure? The way I read > > Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) > by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) > (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) > id 1NXp0a-0004MT-1K > for listname at mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:51:11 +1100 > >is that it's coming in by SMTP, not via NNTP. You are correct of course. I was thrown off by these headers given in the post at Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail Approved: news at gmane.org by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ........ Xref: news.gmane.org ....... Archived-At: I suspect those come from a post in Gmane's archive. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Jan 22 16:42:25 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:42:25 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: <87eilig00z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87aaw6f8ny.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Mark Sapiro writes: > > > Hopefully Gmane waits for the reply to the list email before it > > > "accepts" the post. > > > >I'm not sure what you're asking, > > I think what John wants to happen is the following. Whether it actually > works this way or not, I don't know, but I think it might. > > - User posts via NNTP to Gmane list. > - Gmane accepts the message and mails it to Mailman but does not add it > to its archive at this point. This is what John wants. You, sir, are a genius. I *never* would have guessed that from the word "accept" (even in quotes :-). > Eventually, we'll find out if it works. I suspect it does, I do too, because larsi is not an idiot. I have to imagine that like 99% of messages that get moderated into oblivion are spam. Gmane doesn't want their archives filled with that crap, so they'll archive from the moderated stream. This is starting to look pretty good, actually. We can hope that this solution will serve John until MM3 goes "gold" (with an NNTP server :-9. From Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu Fri Jan 22 17:31:58 2010 From: Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu (Young, Darren) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:31:58 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: References: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D7055DDCE5@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D705628450@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> There's a lot in there so I attached it. Not sure if this list allows attachments but I'll try here anyways. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 10:04 AM > To: Young, Darren; mailman-users at python.org > Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Archives > > Young, Darren wrote: > > >> What is the timestamp if you do "ls -ld" here? > > > >[root at bushlms01 archive]# pwd > >/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive > >[root at bushlms01 archive]# ls -ld > >drwxrws--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jan 20 16:04 . > > > So your messages are reaching the archive queue (because it is being > updated through Jan 20 16:04) and ArchRunner is processing the > messages (because the queue is empty) > > What does > > ls -lAR /usr/local/mailman/archives/ > > show? > > > [...] > >> One other thought. Is it possible that your test posts contain an > >> X-No-Archive: header or an "X-Archive: No" header? > >I don't believe so but I'll check the headers to be sure. > > > Since it appears posts are reaching the archive queue, this wouldn't be > the issue. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- Excerpted by M Sapiro /usr/local/mailman/archives/: total 36 drwxrws--x 813 mailman mailman 32768 Jan 21 16:01 private drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jan 20 12:55 public /usr/local/mailman/archives/private: total 3256 drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jan 7 15:11 3000001_win2010 drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Nov 24 10:01 3000001_win2010.mbox [...] drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jan 20 12:26 perl-ad-manager-users drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jan 20 12:26 perl-ad-manager-users.mbox [...] /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/3000001_win2010: total 0 /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/3000001_win2010.mbox: total 0 [...] /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/career-wknd: total 4 -rw-rw-r-- 1 root mailman 500 Jan 20 12:25 index.html /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/career-wknd.mbox: total 0 [...] /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mailman: total 8 drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jan 7 15:11 2009-June drwxrws--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jan 7 15:11 database /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mailman/2009-June: total 0 /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mailman/database: total 0 /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox: total 0 [...] /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/perl-ad-manager-users: total 4 -rw-rw-r-- 1 root mailman 531 Jan 20 12:26 index.html /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/perl-ad-manager-users.mbox: total 0 [...] /usr/local/mailman/archives/public: total 0 From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 18:23:00 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:23:00 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D705628450@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: Young, Darren wrote: > >There's a lot in there so I attached it. Not sure if this list allows >attachments but I'll try here anyways. The text/plain attachment was allowed, but the message was too big. I trimmed the attachment leaving only a few relevant parts. See my comments inline and at the end. >/usr/local/mailman/archives/: >total 36 >drwxrws--x 813 mailman mailman 32768 Jan 21 16:01 private >drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jan 20 12:55 public > >/usr/local/mailman/archives/private: >total 3256 >drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jan 7 15:11 3000001_win2010 >drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Nov 24 10:01 3000001_win2010.mbox There were many lists as above. >[...] >drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jan 20 12:26 perl-ad-manager-users >drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jan 20 12:26 perl-ad-manager-users.mbox And I think this is the list of interest. >[...] > >/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/3000001_win2010: >total 0 > >/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/3000001_win2010.mbox: >total 0 > Most lists are like this with no files. >[...] > >/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/career-wknd: >total 4 >-rw-rw-r-- 1 root mailman 500 Jan 20 12:25 index.html > >/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/career-wknd.mbox: >total 0 > But a few like the above have the default index.html >[...] > >/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mailman: >total 8 >drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jan 7 15:11 2009-June >drwxrws--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jan 7 15:11 database > >/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mailman/2009-June: >total 0 > >/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mailman/database: >total 0 > >/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox: >total 0 And here, it liiks like at one time the mailman list actually had an archived message, but it's gone. >[...] > >/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/perl-ad-manager-users: >total 4 >-rw-rw-r-- 1 root mailman 531 Jan 20 12:26 index.html > >/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/perl-ad-manager-users.mbox: >total 0 > And our list has the default index.html >[...] > >/usr/local/mailman/archives/public: >total 0 And there are no symlinks in archives/public. Here's what I see - most lists do not have even the default 'empty' index.html. For those few that do, the list's all seem to have been created on or after Jan 20. Thus, I think issue # 1 is there is some process that runs periodically (manually or via cron) that removes all files or all files older than x from the archives/private/ directory. Issue #2 is once again an obvious thing to have checked, but I think archiving must be disabled in mm_cfg.py with ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = -1 This is the only thing that explains the lack of symlink(s) in archives/public for lists with public archives. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu Fri Jan 22 18:35:21 2010 From: Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu (Young, Darren) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 11:35:21 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: References: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D705628450@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D705628523@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> > The text/plain attachment was allowed, but the message was too big. I > trimmed the attachment leaving only a few relevant parts. See my > comments inline and at the end. I had a feeling it would be one or the other. > > >[...] > >drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jan 20 12:26 perl-ad-manager-users > >drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jan 20 12:26 perl-ad-manager- > users.mbox > > > And I think this is the list of interest. Yes, that's the one. > Here's what I see - most lists do not have even the default 'empty' > index.html. For those few that do, the list's all seem to have been > created on or after Jan 20. Thus, I think issue # 1 is there is some > process that runs periodically (manually or via cron) that removes all > files or all files older than x from the archives/private/ directory. We have an automated (daily) process that generates class mailing lists, I'm guessing on 1/20 a batch of them came through. > > Issue #2 is once again an obvious thing to have checked, but I think > archiving must be disabled in mm_cfg.py with > > ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = -1 Nothing set in mm_cfg.py for that but it is set to -1 in Defaults.py. I just set it to 0, didn't even think about looking in there for it, sorry, should grepped -i 'archive' in the tree. Think I'm going to give up on this for them moment and use a Google Group to archive the list. Thanks for all the help. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 18:48:11 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:48:11 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D705628523@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: Young, Darren wrote: >> >> Issue #2 is once again an obvious thing to have checked, but I think >> archiving must be disabled in mm_cfg.py with >> >> ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = -1 >Nothing set in mm_cfg.py for that but it is set to -1 in Defaults.py. I >just set it to 0, didn't even think about looking in there for it, >sorry, should grepped -i 'archive' in the tree. The Defaults.py setting is 2. If you want something different, it should be in mm_cfg.py. You need to restart Mailman after making these changes for them to be effective. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu Fri Jan 22 18:49:50 2010 From: Darren.Young at chicagobooth.edu (Young, Darren) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 11:49:50 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives In-Reply-To: References: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D705628523@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D705628557@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu> > >> Issue #2 is once again an obvious thing to have checked, but I think > >> archiving must be disabled in mm_cfg.py with > >> > >> ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = -1 > >Nothing set in mm_cfg.py for that but it is set to -1 in Defaults.py. > I > >just set it to 0, didn't even think about looking in there for it, > >sorry, should grepped -i 'archive' in the tree. > > > The Defaults.py setting is 2. If you want something different, it > should be in mm_cfg.py. > > You need to restart Mailman after making these changes for them to be > effective. Thanks, did that. From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Fri Jan 22 19:33:21 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 20:33:21 +0200 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <2cthl5tshvntt8tq403ed7t68bold8jb9n@4ax.com> References: <201001202012.43384.rb211@tds.net> <201001211929.50767.rb211@tds.net> <2cthl5tshvntt8tq403ed7t68bold8jb9n@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, John Fitzsimons wrote: > I would like to know how to access the archive file so that I can > delete it by FTP. I cannot however find it ! Maybe my web hoster > has somehow made the directory invisible ? Mailman files are usually put somewhere other than in your hosting area. This is because there's probably one installation of Mailman for all users. And even though the URL is YourDomain/mailman... the /mailman part of the URL is probably being mapped to files elsewhere on your provider's host. Geoff. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 20:25:26 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 11:25:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff Shang wrote: >On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, John Fitzsimons wrote: > >> I would like to know how to access the archive file so that I can >> delete it by FTP. I cannot however find it ! Maybe my web hoster >> has somehow made the directory invisible ? > >Mailman files are usually put somewhere other than in your hosting area. >This is because there's probably one installation of Mailman for all >users. And even though the URL is YourDomain/mailman... the /mailman part >of the URL is probably being mapped to files elsewhere on your provider's >host. Sorry. I missed the above query. This is covered in the cPanel FAQ . Mailman's files are in /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/ Archives in particular are in /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/archives/private/ If your FTP session is not chrooted to your own home directory or some other limitation, you chould be able to find them. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Fri Jan 22 21:40:46 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 22:40:46 +0200 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, John Fitzsimons wrote: >> >>> I would like to know how to access the archive file so that I can >>> delete it by FTP. I cannot however find it ! Maybe my web hoster >>> has somehow made the directory invisible ? > > Sorry. I missed the above query. This is covered in the cPanel FAQ > . Mailman's files are in > /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/ > > Archives in particular are in > /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/archives/private/ > > If your FTP session is not chrooted to your own home directory or some > other limitation, you chould be able to find them. But presumably not delete them. Geoff. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 22 21:59:20 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:59:20 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff Shang wrote: >On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> If your FTP session is not chrooted to your own home directory or some >> other limitation, you chould be able to find them. > >But presumably not delete them. Presumably not, but it wouldn't be the first time that people had permission to do things via FTP that they shouldn't be able to do because not allowing them a shell was "enough". -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Fri Jan 22 23:27:33 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 09:27:33 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <87aaw6f8ny.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87eilig00z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87aaw6f8ny.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:42:25 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >Mark Sapiro writes: < snip > > > Eventually, we'll find out if it works. I suspect it does, Preliminary testing suggests that it IS working. >I do too, because larsi is not an idiot. I have to imagine that like >99% of messages that get moderated into oblivion are spam. Gmane >doesn't want their archives filled with that crap, so they'll archive >from the moderated stream. >This is starting to look pretty good, actually. We can hope that this >solution will serve John until MM3 goes "gold" (with an NNTP server :-9. Should I be urgently reading up on "unix" so that I can help out with the Mailman NNTP server betas ? :-) Bye the way, I would strongly suggest to Barry that he consider contacting Thomas G. Liesner, the guy who wrote Hamster. Hamster is a windows freeware news/email proxy server His home page is here http://tglsoft.de/ . An English download page is http://www.arcorhome.de/newshamster/tgl/misc/hamster_en.html His address is Thomas G. Liesner This is a top class program that I have been using for over ten years. Thomas has done a great job and appears to be a very nice guy. Hamster source code can also be downloaded from the above link. I would not be surprised to find out that Thomas has some unix knowledge and/or knows someone who may have done some work towards porting it to a unix platform. Here are some screen shots I did ages ago FWIW. http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/lservers.jpg http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/pservers.jpg http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/fullonm.jpg Regards, John. From johnf at net2000.com.au Fri Jan 22 23:47:27 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 09:47:27 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:59:20 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >Geoff Shang wrote: >>On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> If your FTP session is not chrooted to your own home directory or some >>> other limitation, you chould be able to find them. >>But presumably not delete them. >Presumably not, but it wouldn't be the first time that people had >permission to do things via FTP that they shouldn't be able to do >because not allowing them a shell was "enough". Thank you both for that info. I am not sure that I have the knowledge/confidence to go looking into directories that aren't my home directory. In any case even if I did succeed it could probably get me into trouble with my hoster. But this does lead me to think of a few more questions. If I closed my mailing list then wouldn't all the Mailman archive files be deleted ? If I did that then I could presumably start the list again. Identical to the previous list. But with archiving turned "off" from the beginning ? Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 23 00:12:46 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:12:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: > >But this does lead me to think of a few more questions. If I closed >my mailing list then wouldn't all the Mailman archive files be >deleted ? That's a cPanel question. In standard Mailman, whether you remove a list from the command line with bin/rmlist or via the rmlist CGI (if OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS is True and there is a link on the admin web pages) you have the option of removing or not removing the archives. My understanding is cPanel has it's own way of creating lists and presumably an analagous way of removing them and I don't know how that deals with archives. >If I did that then I could presumably start the list again. Identical >to the previous list. But with archiving turned "off" from the >beginning ? The drawback is all user options/passwords/etc. get lost. You can use something like Jim T's and my mailman-subscribers.py script[1] to screen scrape the web admin Membership List and make a .csv file of the membership together with those options except language that are on the Membership List pages, but restoring them is tedious. OTOH, if you don't care about preserving these, you can just mass subscribe the list and you're done. [1] or . This script runs on your workstation and requires Python be installed there. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Sat Jan 23 01:06:13 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 11:06:13 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:12:46 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: < snip > >>If I did that then I could presumably start the list again. Identical >>to the previous list. But with archiving turned "off" from the >>beginning ? >The drawback is all user options/passwords/etc. get lost. Yes, the loss of user options I can live with BUT the loss of passwords would be a concern. In this case the Gmane subscription. If I un subscribed them, then re-subscribed them, wouldn't I need to get an email response from them to complete their re-subscription ? Or is there some way, using CPanel, to subscribe someone without needing to wait for any response from them ? Also, talking about passwords. Is there any way, as systems administrator, to know member passwords using CPanel ? >You can use >something like Jim T's and my mailman-subscribers.py script[1] to >screen scrape the web admin Membership List and make a .csv file of >the membership together with those options except language that are on >the Membership List pages, Thanks, I am using windows. Not too keen on trying to get scripts to work on a windows display. Though, after your comments, I might take a look at a windows scraper I have. Though that is intended for edit boxes. >but restoring them is tedious. OTOH, if you >don't care about preserving these, you can just mass subscribe the >list and you're done. Sorry, I am not with you there. What do you mean by "mass subscribe the list" ? >[1] or >. >This script runs on your workstation and requires Python be installed >there. Okay. Thank you. Bye the way, talking about scripting. I just heard about a program that might interest you/other coders here. Highlight converts source code to formatted text with syntax highlighting. * Coloured output in HTML, XHTML, RTF, TeX, LaTeX, SVG, BBCode and XML format * Supports 150+ programming languages * Includes 40 colour themes * Recognizes nested languages * Platform independent (CLI, GUI, Lib) http://www.andre-simon.de/doku/highlight/en/highlight_screenshots.html Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 23 01:33:07 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:33:07 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: > >Yes, the loss of user options I can live with BUT the loss of >passwords would be a concern. In this case the Gmane subscription. I don't think the password of the Gmane subscription to the Mailman list is important. >If I un subscribed them, then re-subscribed them, wouldn't I need to >get an email response from them to complete their re-subscription ? >Or is there some way, using CPanel, to subscribe someone without >needing to wait for any response from them ? The web admin Membership Management... -> Mass Subscription page should do it. >Also, talking about passwords. Is there any way, as systems >administrator, to know member passwords using CPanel ? No. You have to be able to access the list configuration file with command-line tools. >>You can use >>something like Jim T's and my mailman-subscribers.py script[1] to >>screen scrape the web admin Membership List and make a .csv file of >>the membership together with those options except language that are on >>the Membership List pages, > >Thanks, I am using windows. Not too keen on trying to get scripts to >work on a windows display. Though, after your comments, I might take >a look at a windows scraper I have. Though that is intended for edit >boxes. The script is not a screen scraper in that sense. It accesses the list's admin Membership Management... -> Membership List pages and parses them to get the data. Installing Python on your windows box is a piece of cake. You get the installer at and run it. Then you run the script in a command window. >>but restoring them is tedious. OTOH, if you >>don't care about preserving these, you can just mass subscribe the >>list and you're done. > >Sorry, I am not with you there. What do you mean by "mass subscribe >the list" ? The web admin Membership Management... -> Mass Subscription page -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Sat Jan 23 02:35:14 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 12:35:14 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:33:07 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: >>Yes, the loss of user options I can live with BUT the loss of >>passwords would be a concern. In this case the Gmane subscription. >I don't think the password of the Gmane subscription to the Mailman >list is important. You are probably correct. If I can un-subscribe them, and then re-subscribe them, without them being contacted it would save me/ them tedious, and unnecessary, communication. < snip > >The web admin Membership Management... -> Mass Subscription page should >do it. Excellent ! Being a newbie I hadn't noticed that. Looks like it could be very handy to have in some circumstances. Thank you. < snip > >The script is not a screen scraper in that sense. It accesses the >list's admin Membership Management... -> Membership List pages and >parses them to get the data. Via my browser, or via an FTP logon ? I am using a windows system and CPanel. < snip > Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 23 03:07:44 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:07:44 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: >On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:33:07 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >>The script is not a screen scraper in that sense. It accesses the >>list's admin Membership Management... -> Membership List pages and >>parses them to get the data. > >Via my browser, or via an FTP logon ? I am using a windows system and >CPanel. Neither. The script is a Python application that runs under control of Python on your windows box (You download windows Python at the link in my prior mail). It accesses your cPanel list's web admin interface via HTTP just as you would with your browser, except it doesn't use your browser. It sends HTTP GET requests and reads the responses just as a browser would, but it doesn't display the retrieved pages; it just parses them to get the desired information. You could do the same thing with a browser by going to the Membership Management... -> Membership List pages one by one and writing down all the relevant information you see there, but the script effectively does that for you. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From barry at list.org Fri Jan 22 23:19:39 2010 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:19:39 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web user interface kick-off Message-ID: <20100122171939.6311b93c@freewill.wooz.org> Hello folks, I'd like to officially kickoff the Mailman 3 web user interface project. I want to invite all interested developers and designers to join in on helping to produce an awesome, modern user interface for the next version of Mailman. I believe we have enough infrastructure in the core Mailman 3 engine to support at least initial work on the WUI. The architecture we've laid out is solid I believe. The Mailman 3 engine provides a REST HTTP server exposing a full-access administrative interface. The WUI will be a separate optional process that sites can run, which communicates over REST to manage security and provide external HTTP/HTML access to Mailman functionality for users, list administrators, and site administrators. All discussions about the WUI can be conducted on the mailman-developers mailing list. The wiki can be used to collect artifacts such as design notes, decisions, and progress: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Web+Interface (Contact me or mailman-cabal at python.org off-line if you need write access. The wiki is fairly locked down due to spam.) The Launchpad project for the Mailman WUI is here: https://launchpad.net/mailmanweb but there is currently very little there at the moment. Remember too that we are trying to gather critical mass to sprint on the WUI at Pycon 2010: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/PyCon+Sprint+2010 Enjoy, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jamestanit at yahoo.com Sun Jan 24 05:42:25 2010 From: jamestanit at yahoo.com (james Tanit) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 20:42:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on setting up mailman Message-ID: <425148.82375.qm@web110115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hello, I have a lot of troubles setting up the mailman on a linux box. Please help. I guess these are simple and common questions, so please help us. Many thanks. Now, I run the apache webserver under username say, tatac, which is also the group name. I have suexec configured for apache. Why the following configuration doesn't work? Do I need a DocumentRoot? I already run the suexec -V -D AP_DOC_ROOT="/" -D AP_GID_MIN=100 -D AP_HTTPD_USER="nobody" -D AP_LOG_EXEC="/usr/local/apache/logs/suexec_log" -D AP_SAFE_PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin" -D AP_UID_MIN=100 -D AP_USERDIR_SUFFIX="public_html" I hate this "nobody" thing, it has given me a lot of troubles already. I just don't want to run under nobody. mailman directory ownership is tatac:tatac ServerName list.tata.com ServerAlias list.tata.com SuexecUserGroup tatac tatac Alias /mailman/archives /home/mailman/archives/public/ ScriptAlias /mailman/ /home/mailman/cgi-bin/ AllowOverride None Options ExecCGI Order allow,deny Allow from all Alias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archives/public/ Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks AllowOverride None Order allow,deny Allow from all AddDefaultCharset off Any comments and ideas where went wrong? From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Sun Jan 24 16:07:09 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 17:07:09 +0200 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on setting up mailman In-Reply-To: <425148.82375.qm@web110115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <425148.82375.qm@web110115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Jan 2010, james Tanit wrote: > Now, I run the apache webserver under username say, tatac, which is also > the group name. I have suexec configured for apache. Why the following > configuration doesn't work? Can you give us the eror message that you get? Geoff. From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 24 17:06:52 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 08:06:52 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on setting up mailman In-Reply-To: <425148.82375.qm@web110115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: james Tanit wrote: > >I have a lot of troubles setting up the mailman on a linux box. Please help. I guess these are simple and common >questions, so please help us. Many thanks. > >Now, I run the apache webserver under username say, tatac, which is also the group name. I have suexec >configured for apache. Mailman and suEXEC do not play well together. See the FAQ at for one person's way of making them work together. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dgb at dubardos.co.za Sun Jan 24 22:44:41 2010 From: dgb at dubardos.co.za (Daryl Bartkunsky) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:44:41 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Database error/bug Message-ID: Good day, I am currently using your mailman system, I have around 200 email address with names in a database, Called a party newsletter everything was fine, but now I'm unable to access the Membership list or any other feature, I'm also not able to send emails to this list, I would like to know how to take the data out and then I can reimport it. Where would I find this database Thanks Regards, Daryl Bartkunsky Dargil CC CEO http://www.dargil.co.za http://www.securikey.co.za From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 25 04:11:19 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:11:19 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Database error/bug In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Daryl Bartkunsky wrote: > >I am currently using your mailman system, > >I have around 200 email address with names in a database, > >Called a party newsletter everything was fine, but now I'm unable to access >the > >Membership list or any other feature, I'm also not able to send emails to >this list, > >I would like to know how to take the data out and then I can reimport it. > > > >Where would I find this database In a default Mailman install, the list data is in a Python pickle stored in /usr/local/mailman/lists/LISTNAME/config.pck, but if this is corrupt and the config.pck.last is corrupt too, the best you can do is run strings on the file and try to make sense of the output. Is this your Mailman installation or a hosted installation? If it is hosted, you should be talking to your hosting provider to resolve this issue or perhaps recover your list from a backup. If this is your installation, if you tell us what the error information and traceback from Mailman's error log is, we may be able to help you find the problem. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jfrizzel at bates.edu Mon Jan 25 17:12:49 2010 From: jfrizzel at bates.edu (Jane Frizzell) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:12:49 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listowner wants to send long messages Message-ID: <4B5DC301.8040903@bates.edu> Hello Is there a way for the owner of a list to have only their messages auto approved if they are too long? I read the documentation and did not find this issue discussed. Thank you for your help. Jane -- Jane Frizzell Network Services Administrator Bates College Information and Library Services jfrizzel at bates.edu 786-6457 110 Russell St From ltking at emory.edu Mon Jan 25 17:55:14 2010 From: ltking at emory.edu (King, Leslie) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:55:14 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list Message-ID: Can your program work on a Mac? Thank you. Leslie King ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). From john at wotsnext.com.au Tue Jan 26 12:51:55 2010 From: john at wotsnext.com.au (John Grivas (wotsnext)) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:51:55 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: [#ZPK-731315]: Mailing list constantly rejecting a member email - please assist In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello I was hoping you could help. I had email lists under a sub-domain, but decided to move the subdomain to its own webhosting. Part of that migration included moving some email lists across. The problem I have that any list that email are being rejected for list that now exists under the new hosting service but that existed under the old subdomain. Any new list name created is fine. Can you think of any reason for this? You're assistance would be much appreaciated. Regard John Grivas +61 4 1001 7585 ------ Forwarded Message > From: John Grivas (wotsnext) > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:25:14 +1100 > To: > Subject: Re: [#ZPK-731315]: Mailing list constantly rejecting a member email - > please assist > > Hi Geoff > > Sorry, I don't really understand what you have written below. I am a bit > confused. > > The only email account I see under www.shnc.org.au/cpanel is: > > John at shnc.org.au > > > The list below are "Mailing Lists" I created the lists below under the new > hosting service. I created them around the 11 Jan 2010. > > >> alumni at shnc.org.au >> committee at shnc.org.au >> copperheads at shnc.org.au >> deathadders at shnc.org.au >> diamondpythons at shnc.org.au >> easternmasters at shnc.org.au >> goldencrowns at shnc.org.au >> members at shnc.org.au >> redbelliedblacks at shnc.org.au >> redfurina at shnc.org.au >> social at shnc.org.au >> whistlingblues at shnc.org.au > > > I don?t understand what you are suggesting is causing the conflict. > > I just created another email list shnctester at shnc.org.au, added > John at wotsnext.com.au to the list. And with this email list I can email OK. > > So can you provide a solution to eradicting the conflict the is occurring with > the other email lists listed above? > > > Regards > John > > > > >> From: "Geoff Keeys" >> Reply-To: resellersupport at planetdomain.com >> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:02:41 +1100 >> To: john at wotsnext.com.au >> Subject: [#ZPK-731315]: Mailing list constantly rejecting a member email - >> please assist >> >> Hi John, >> >> The mailing list in CPanel shows the following email accounts as being part >> of >> the mailing list: >> >> >> >> alumni at shnc.org.au >> committee at shnc.org.au >> copperheads at shnc.org.au >> deathadders at shnc.org.au >> diamondpythons at shnc.org.au >> easternmasters at shnc.org.au >> goldencrowns at shnc.org.au >> members at shnc.org.au >> redbelliedblacks at shnc.org.au >> redfurina at shnc.org.au >> social at shnc.org.au >> whistlingblues at shnc.org.au >> >> >> This list is in CPanel, in the Mail section, under Mailing lists. >> My assumption is that this is what is causing the conflict. >> >> There should be nothing left under the old hosting with tinkertailor.com.au. >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Geoff >> Team Leader >> Reseller Support >> Planet Domain Pty Ltd >> >> Ticket Details >> =================== >> Ticket ID: ZPK-731315 >> Department: Resellers (Mon-Fri) >> Priority: Low >> Status: Closed >> ------ End of Forwarded Message From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 26 15:41:50 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 06:41:50 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listowner wants to send long messages In-Reply-To: <4B5DC301.8040903@bates.edu> Message-ID: Jane Frizzell wrote: >Is there a way for the owner of a list to have only their messages auto >approved if they are too long? I read the documentation and did not >find this issue discussed. Thank you for your help. Not per se, but the owner can post with an "Approved: password" header where passord is the list admin or moderator password to pre-approve her post. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rob.macgregor at gmail.com Tue Jan 26 15:43:03 2010 From: rob.macgregor at gmail.com (Rob MacGregor) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:43:03 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43ea8d071001260643q4d5d93c6vcd70175046761b81@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 16:55, King, Leslie wrote: > Can your program work on a Mac? Stick the word "MacOS" into the list search page: > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ and you'll find many hits - the first (for me) of which includes a link to installing it. -- Please keep list traffic on the list. Rob MacGregor Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he doesn't become a monster. Friedrich Nietzsche From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 26 15:45:33 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 06:45:33 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: King, Leslie wrote: >Can your program work on a Mac? The short answer is yes. See the FAQ at -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Tue Jan 26 15:55:14 2010 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:55:14 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jan 2010, King, Leslie wrote: > Can your program work on a Mac? You've already had a couple of answers. I have written (and it should be found in the archives) installation instructions for various recent versions of Mac OS X. That said, and with no idea of what your expectations and capabilities are, it is not a piece of consumer software that you just copy on to your Macintosh and double-click. You will be turning your Macintosh into a server (no, you don't need to have Mac OS X Server), you will need a mail server running, you will be downloading the Mailman source and building it (requires Mac OS X Developer Tools), you will be modifying the internal web server on your computer, and you will need to modify system startup files (Mailman runs in the background). In short, you need to be a reasonably skilled system administrator. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 26 16:00:52 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:00:52 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: [#ZPK-731315]: Mailing list constantlyrejecting a member email - please assist In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Grivas (wotsnext) wrote: > >I had email lists under a sub-domain, but decided to move the subdomain to >its own webhosting. Part of that migration included moving some email lists >across. > >The problem I have that any list that email are being rejected for list that >now exists under the new hosting service but that existed under the old >subdomain. Any new list name created is fine. > >Can you think of any reason for this? You're assistance would be much >appreaciated. I can think of two reasons off the top. Aliases and cPanel, although cPanel usually uses exim with a mailman router and transport, so aliases per se is probably not the issue. What is the reason for rejection of the mail to the lists. More below ... >------ Forwarded Message >> From: John Grivas (wotsnext) [...] > >> The only email account I see under www.shnc.org.au/cpanel is: John at shnc.org.au >> >> >> The list below are "Mailing Lists" I created the lists below under the new >> hosting service. I created them around the 11 Jan 2010. >> >> >>> alumni at shnc.org.au >>> committee at shnc.org.au >>> copperheads at shnc.org.au >>> deathadders at shnc.org.au >>> diamondpythons at shnc.org.au >>> easternmasters at shnc.org.au >>> goldencrowns at shnc.org.au >>> members at shnc.org.au >>> redbelliedblacks at shnc.org.au >>> redfurina at shnc.org.au >>> social at shnc.org.au >>> whistlingblues at shnc.org.au [...] The reference above to cpanel seems to say you moved the lists to a cPanel host. How did you move them? Were they previously cPanel lists. cPanel mungs list names. I.e. the name of the alumni at shnc.org.au list under cPanel is alumni_shnc.org.au and its config.pck, etc are in /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/lists/alumni_shnc.org.au/. I don't know if it is even possible to move a non-cPanel config.pck to cPanel and have it just work. See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Wed Jan 27 00:37:06 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 01:37:06 +0200 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: [#ZPK-731315]: Mailing list constantly rejecting a member email - please assist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jan 2010, John Grivas (wotsnext) wrote: > I had email lists under a sub-domain, but decided to move the subdomain to > its own webhosting. Part of that migration included moving some email lists > across. > > The problem I have that any list that email are being rejected for list that > now exists under the new hosting service but that existed under the old > subdomain. Any new list name created is fine. What happens when you try to post? If you are sent a bounce message, what does it say? Are there errors in Mailman's log files, and if so, what are they? Geoff. From underground.sd at gmail.com Tue Jan 26 19:35:04 2010 From: underground.sd at gmail.com (UGSD) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 10:35:04 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive nightmare with vhosts Message-ID: <0E187A98-8FB8-4BD6-BE9F-057005CF7EC7@gmail.com> Hello, I work for a large university and was recently put in charge of consolidating a bunch of mailman lists from multiple domains onto 1 server. First problem that I encountered was the single namespace issue with virtual domains, so i removed the stock Mailman 2.1.12 that came with Ubuntu, downloaded Mailman 2.1.7 and patched it with mailman-2.1.7-release-to-vhost.patch from http://ndim.fedorapeople.org/stuff/mailman-vhost/. That went pretty smooth, compiled and installed without any major issues. put these in mm_cfg.py: DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.dept.university.edu' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.dept.university.edu' add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) add_virtualhost('lists.domain1.net', 'lists.domain1.net') add_virtualhost('lists.domain2.net', 'lists.domain2.net') POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.domain1.net', 'lists.domain2.net'] After that I setup Postfix, added a new list "test-list" which was automatically created in the right place - /path/to/mailman/lists/lists.domain1.net/test-list/ So no problem here. I subscribed to the list, confirmed the subscription and sent couple of test messages. Everything worked great. Next i went to browse the archives and encountered another problem. The URLs for the Public archives were not right, but I got around it with a simple Apache rewrite: RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} !^/pipermail/([a-z]+)\.(.*)?$ [NC] RewriteRule ^/pipermail/(.*)$ /pipermail/%{SERVER_NAME}/$1 [R=301,L] Basically all it does is insert "lists.domainX.net" between /pipermail/ and /test-list/. Public archives are now working with http://lists.domain1.net/pipermail/lists.domain1.net/test-list/ Next I tried to test Private archives and this is where I hit the wall and need some help with. The listinfo page for my test-list showed that the URL for the private archives was http://lists.domain1.net/private/test-list, so i figured i would be able to fix it with the same rewrite rule that i used for the Public archives. However, because private CGI wrapper expects the list name right after /private/, this URL http://lists.domain1.net/private/lists.domain1.com/test-list/ did not work, and all i got was the error message saying that "list lists.domain1.net does not exist" Next, I changed my rewrite rule to redirect me to http://lists.domain1.com/private/test-list at lists.domain1.com instead RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} !^/private/(.*)@(.*)?$ [NC] RewriteRule ^/private/(.*)/$ /private/$1@%{SERVER_NAME} [R=301,L] This redirected me to the login page and seemed to work great, until I tried to login and got hit with the message that "test-list" does not exist. After a little digging, I traced the problem to the incorrect html from action, private.py and private.html template file. With my very limited [read "non-existing"] Python knowledge I managed to pass some arguments to the private.html and change the form action from http://lists.domain1.com/private/test-list/ to http://lists.domain1.com/private/test-list at lists.domain1.com and was able to login, but now i got another error - "Private archive file not found". I looked at the log file and saw the following error message: Jan 26 09:31:18 2010 (21196) Private archive file not found: /path/to/mailman/archives/private/test-list at lists.domain1.net Just for the hell of it I decided to create a symbolic link and see if it will work ln -s /path/to/mailman/archives/private/lists.domain1.net/test-list /path/to/mailman/archives/private/test-list at lists.domain1.net This seemed to work and i was able to pull up the Private archive page, however all the links were missing "/private/test-list at lists.domain1.net" and looked like "http://lists.domain1.com/2010-January/" [this part is not really important right now. i guess i will deal with this problem later.] Now it looks like the "path" variable in private.py (line 70 or very close) is causing the issue: path = os.environ.get('PATH_INFO') According to the debug log my PATH_INFO is test-list at lists.domain1.net, so I figured I should be able to fix it like so: path = os.path.join(os.environ.get('SERVER_NAME'), ) [ end result has to be "lists.domain1.net/test-list ] But i could not figure out how to pass the list name to os.path.join() and no matter what I did i either ended up with undeclared variable or some other related error. I really hope someone would be able to help me out here or point me in the right direction. Thank you in advance, - Igor From dnewman at networktest.com Tue Jan 26 21:29:06 2010 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:29:06 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Really obscuring sender addresses Message-ID: <4B5F5092.4080201@networktest.com> I've set up a read-only announcement mailing list following these guidelines: http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030685 I am looking to obscure any reference to the sender's address from list postings. Per the guidelines, this includes (all done via the Web UI): anonymous_list: Yes first_strip_reply_to: Yes reply_goes_to_list: Explicit address reply_to_address: info at example.com include_rfc2369_headers: Yes include_list_post_header: No However, test messages I've sent to the list still include my address in the message headers: Received: from host.example.com (host.example.com [10.0.0.123]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: dnewman at networktest.com) by mail.example.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8D354958A2 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:24:09 -0800 (PST) Is it possible to scrub that "Authenticated sender" line? thanks dn From penningt at uchastings.edu Tue Jan 26 21:37:35 2010 From: penningt at uchastings.edu (Pennington, John) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:37:35 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] fun with hostnames. Message-ID: <8E463C4A59C4844985A50A94E473C5FC49DA83@win2k3vi.uchastings.local> Hi All, We are trying to configure a setup that would set the list server addresses to be a different hostname than the URL host and admin pages use. For example if we had a machine named foo.interest.com with a DNS alias for fooalias.interest.com , we want our admin pages look to like this. http://foo.interest.com/mailman/listinfo/mailinglist But we want users to send email to: mailinglist at fooalias.interest.com Does anyone know how to do this? I tried to configure mm_cfg.py like the following: DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'fooalias.interest.com' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'foo.interest.com' And it is mostly working. However the machine is still accepting mail from people who send to: mailinglist at foo.interest.com and we want it to only accept mail sent to mailinglist at fooalias.interest.com Does anyone have an idea how to make this happen? Thanks a bunch John From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 27 02:07:34 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:07:34 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Really obscuring sender addresses In-Reply-To: <4B5F5092.4080201@networktest.com> Message-ID: David Newman wrote: > >I am looking to obscure any reference to the sender's address from list >postings. > >Per the guidelines, this includes (all done via the Web UI): > >anonymous_list: Yes >first_strip_reply_to: Yes >reply_goes_to_list: Explicit address >reply_to_address: info at example.com >include_rfc2369_headers: Yes >include_list_post_header: No > >However, test messages I've sent to the list still include my address in >the message headers: > >Received: from host.example.com (host.example.com > [10.0.0.123]) > (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) > (No client certificate requested) > (Authenticated sender: dnewman at networktest.com) > by mail.example.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8D354958A2 > for ; > Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:24:09 -0800 (PST) > >Is it possible to scrub that "Authenticated sender" line? This is fixed in Mailman 2.1.13 - Received: headers are removed from anonymized posts. If you can't upgrade, you can get the Cleanse.py module from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files/head%3A/Mailman/Handlers/ and replace your Mailman/Handlers/Cleanse.py with that one. It should work with any Mailman 2.1.x version. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 27 02:21:20 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:21:20 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] fun with hostnames. In-Reply-To: <8E463C4A59C4844985A50A94E473C5FC49DA83@win2k3vi.uchastings.local> Message-ID: Pennington, John wrote: > >I tried to configure mm_cfg.py like the following: > > > >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'fooalias.interest.com' > >DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'foo.interest.com' > That's the way to do it. Plus adding VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) following the above two lines and maybe running fix_url to update lists that were created before the change. See the FAQ at . > >And it is mostly working. However the machine is still accepting mail >from people who send to: > > > >mailinglist at foo.interest.com and we want it to only accept mail sent to >mailinglist at fooalias.interest.com > > > > > >Does anyone have an idea how to make this happen? This has to be done in your MTA configuration and how to do it depends on your MTA. The issue is any mail sent to foo.interest.com is delivered to the same machine as mail to fooalias.interest.com and the MTA finds the alias or whatever for the list and delivers the mail. Depending on the MTA and how it delivers to Mailman this may be tricky to resolve. Even if fooalias.interest.com is a virtual domain in the MTA, the normal way of handling this for Mailman is to have a virtual mapping from mailinglist at fooalias.interest.com to the local name mailinglist so this makes mailinglist a valid local name so if foo.interest.com is the local domain, mailinglist at foo.interest.com is also a valid address for the list. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Wed Jan 27 02:29:46 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 03:29:46 +0200 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: [#ZPK-731315]: Mailing list constantly rejecting a member email - please assist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Putting this back on the list. On Wed, 27 Jan 2010, John Grivas (wotsnext) wrote: > Hi Geoff > > The following is the error message received: > > -------- > This email has been automatically rejected because you are not a > member of the redfurina-owner at shnc.org.au mailing list. This looks very odd to me, though others may see some logical reason why the -owner bit is at the end of the list name. > If you would like to post a message to this mailing list, please > forward your original email to tim at shnc.org.au > > From: "John Grivas (wotsnext)" > Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:47:20 +1100 > To: > Subject: Testting 27.1 > -------- > > > But I have since 'deleted' the list redfurina at shnc.org.au and when I send > the email, I still get a bounce. So it must be hitting an old configuration > of the list. Maybe a stupid question. Did you say you've got two hosts involved in your domain? If so, which one is handling the mail? If it's the one that used to have the lists, did you properly clean out the lists from where they used to be? Geoff. From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 27 02:59:31 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:59:31 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive nightmare with vhosts In-Reply-To: <0E187A98-8FB8-4BD6-BE9F-057005CF7EC7@gmail.com> Message-ID: UGSD wrote: > >First problem that I encountered was the single namespace issue with virtual domains, so i removed the stock Mailman 2.1.12 that came with Ubuntu, >downloaded Mailman 2.1.7 and patched it with mailman-2.1.7-release-to-vhost.patch from http://ndim.fedorapeople.org/stuff/mailman-vhost/. > >That went pretty smooth, compiled and installed without any major issues. Before you commit too heavily to this, I suggest you look at the first 570+ lines at and see if you really want to be installing a 4 year old release. >put these in mm_cfg.py: >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.dept.university.edu' >DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.dept.university.edu' >add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) >add_virtualhost('lists.domain1.net', 'lists.domain1.net') >add_virtualhost('lists.domain2.net', 'lists.domain2.net') >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.domain1.net', 'lists.domain2.net'] > >After that I setup Postfix, added a new list "test-list" which was automatically created in the right place - /path/to/mailman/lists/lists.domain1.net/test-list/ >So no problem here. I subscribed to the list, confirmed the subscription and sent couple of test messages. Everything worked great. > >Next i went to browse the archives and encountered another problem. The URLs for the Public archives were not right, but I got around it with a simple Apache rewrite: > > RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} !^/pipermail/([a-z]+)\.(.*)?$ [NC] > RewriteRule ^/pipermail/(.*)$ /pipermail/%{SERVER_NAME}/$1 [R=301,L] > >Basically all it does is insert "lists.domainX.net" between /pipermail/ and /test-list/. Public archives are now working with http://lists.domain1.net/pipermail/lists.domain1.net/test-list/ So you can't have lists with names beginning with letters and a dot. I think a better method would be a separate Alias /pipermail/ directive in each VirtualHost block. >Next I tried to test Private archives and this is where I hit the wall and need some help with. > >The listinfo page for my test-list showed that the URL for the private archives was http://lists.domain1.net/private/test-list, so i figured i would be able to fix it with the same rewrite rule that i used for the Public archives. The patch is supposed to present the correct URL for both private and public archive access. I probably won't have time before Thursday to look at this in detail (and I only do it at all because OCD is a terrible thing to waste). [long sad tale snipped] You are applying band-aids upon band-aids and you'll never stop the bleeding until you properly fix the underlying problem. As I said, because I'm compulsive I will look at this in more detail and follow up, but probably not for a few days. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From underground.sd at gmail.com Wed Jan 27 05:09:25 2010 From: underground.sd at gmail.com (UGSD) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 20:09:25 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive nightmare with vhosts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <593263B6-10D2-4884-A2A9-D7890E713C9A@gmail.com> > Before you commit too heavily to this, I suggest you look at the first > 570+ lines at > > and see if you really want to be installing a 4 year old release. The only reason i chose 2.1.7 is because the patch applied cleanly, but i guess you are right. I just sat down and applied the patch to the 2.1.13 source. There few few rejects, but I went through all of them and it looks like that code that already made it upstream and included in 2.1.13. Compiled and installed it, but for the life of me i cant create a new list for a virtual domain. bin/newlist -u lists.domain1.net test-list at lists.domain1.net and end up with Illegal list name: pruchai-test at lists.calit2.net This is very strange, because the domain already exists in mm_cfg.py and the patch applied cleanly to bin/newlist too. Any idea what may be wrong? >> put these in mm_cfg.py: >> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.dept.university.edu' >> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.dept.university.edu' >> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) >> add_virtualhost('lists.domain1.net', 'lists.domain1.net') >> add_virtualhost('lists.domain2.net', 'lists.domain2.net') >> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.domain1.net', 'lists.domain2.net'] >> >> >> RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} !^/pipermail/([a-z]+)\.(.*)?$ [NC] >> RewriteRule ^/pipermail/(.*)$ /pipermail/%{SERVER_NAME}/$1 [R=301,L] >> >> Basically all it does is insert "lists.domainX.net" between /pipermail/ and /test-list/. Public archives are now working with http://lists.domain1.net/pipermail/lists.domain1.net/test-list/ > > > So you can't have lists with names beginning with letters and a dot. > > I think a better method would be a separate Alias /pipermail/ directive > in each VirtualHost block. > Right. That was a quick rule and i already realized that couple of my lists are not gonna work with this. There is, however, a common name convention, so i will make a better match later. As far as virtual hosts go, I'd like to keep configuration to a minimum. As i mentioned on IRC, I am looking at approximately 20 separate domains and maintaining 20 separate installations and configs is a management nightmare. > >> Next I tried to test Private archives and this is where I hit the wall and need some help with. >> >> The listinfo page for my test-list showed that the URL for the private archives was http://lists.domain1.net/private/test-list, so i figured i would be able to fix it with the same rewrite rule that i used for the Public archives. > > > As I said, because I'm compulsive I will look at this in more detail > and follow up, but probably not for a few days. > Thanks, Mark! I really appreciate the help. From johnf at net2000.com.au Wed Jan 27 05:52:29 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 15:52:29 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <22hvl5hlo1kss6vm1h9spv7rp7f24pkrqr@4ax.com> On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:33:07 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Mark, < snip > >>>You can use >>>something like Jim T's and my mailman-subscribers.py script[1] to >>>screen scrape the web admin Membership List and make a .csv file of >>>the membership together with those options except language that are on >>>the Membership List pages, < snip > >It accesses the >list's admin Membership Management... -> Membership List pages and >parses them to get the data. < snip > There appears to be a problem here. I get an error. Here is what happened.. C:\>mailman-subscribers.py -c http://domain listname_domain password The filename, directory name, or volume label syntax is incorrect. Also, I don't suppose that there is a script to collect all the "customising" that one has done with a mailing list is there ? Thanks. Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 27 14:57:44 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 05:57:44 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: <22hvl5hlo1kss6vm1h9spv7rp7f24pkrqr@4ax.com> Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: > >There appears to be a problem here. I get an error. Here is what >happened.. > >C:\>mailman-subscribers.py -c http://domain listname_domain >password That is not correct. The first argument is just the host name (domain) without any http:// >The filename, directory name, or volume label syntax is incorrect. That error doesn't come from the script. The error you should get from the script is: Error accessing http://http://domain/mailman/admin/listname_domain/members Supplied host may be incorrect or you may need to specify --url_path. Try running the command as: python mailman-subscribers.py -c domain listname_domain password >Also, I don't suppose that there is a script to collect all the >"customising" that one has done with a mailing list is there ? It's called bin/config_list, but you probably can't run it in cPanel. If you mean a script analagous to mailman-subscribers.py that will get the information via the web interface, I'm not aware of any. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From webmaster at churchonthecape.org Tue Jan 26 20:35:58 2010 From: webmaster at churchonthecape.org (webmaster at churchonthecape.org) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:35:58 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Export mailing list addresses Message-ID: <4B5F441E.1030206@churchonthecape.org> How do I export the mailing list addresses? Bill Lord From Peter.HOPKINS at ec.europa.eu Wed Jan 27 14:33:43 2010 From: Peter.HOPKINS at ec.europa.eu (Peter.HOPKINS at ec.europa.eu) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:33:43 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] access to our mailing list Message-ID: Hello, We have been using mailman for a number of years for our local group of Amnesty International. We access the mailing list through the link http://mailman.amnestygroup81.be/cgi-bin/admin/ai-members However, lately, we get an error 404 when trying to open the link. We can still send emails successfully, but since we can't access the administrator page we can't add or delete members, nor approve messages sent by members that are not administrators (though we still get the mails from mailman asking us to log on to approve them) Can you help? Many thanks Peter Hopkins From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 27 16:13:01 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 07:13:01 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Export mailing list addresses In-Reply-To: <4B5F441E.1030206@churchonthecape.org> Message-ID: webmaster at churchonthecape.orgwrote: >How do I export the mailing list addresses? See the FAQ at -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 27 16:38:09 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 07:38:09 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] access to our mailing list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Peter.HOPKINS at ec.europa.eu wrote: > >We have been using mailman for a number of years for our local group of Amnesty International. We access the mailing list through the link http://mailman.amnestygroup81.be/cgi-bin/admin/ai-members > >However, lately, we get an error 404 when trying to open the link. Your hosting service has apparently made some changes. Their installation appears to be somewhat broken in that the overview page can be found at http://mailman.amnestygroup81.be/cgi-bin/mailman/admin but the link to your list on that page which is the above link is broken. However, both of the following links appear to work: http://mailman.amnestygroup81.be/mailman/admin/ai-members http://mailman.amnestygroup81.be/admin/ai-members You can reach the admin login page at one of the above URLs, and I think you can log in. You can reach the moderator pages by substituting 'admindb' for admin' in the above URLs. However, once you get to those pages, links on the pages and submit buttons may not work. The host needs to fix it's configuration by making sure that DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN is set correctly in mm_cfg.py and then runnung fix_url to update lists. The FAQ at has more information on this. The site appears to be hosted by dirty-digits.net and contact info is Koester Carsten Gutenbergsquare 11 Brussel, 1000 BE +32.478681172 carsten at ckoester.net -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org Wed Jan 27 18:06:12 2010 From: Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org (Tim Van Dyne) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:06:12 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman moderator email links variable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC7D6D06@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> After wading through the configs & google for a few hours I figure I'd just ask. Is there a variable that I can use to display moderator email address links. The same way owner_link is defined in HTMLFormatter.py: owner_link = Link('mailto:' + self.GetOwnerEmail(), ownertext).Format() The goal is to change the line in HTMLFormatter.py that displays the site owner email in the footer: innertext = _('%(listinfo_link)s list run by %(owner_link)s') To show moderator emails instead... -Tim- From Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org Wed Jan 27 18:38:06 2010 From: Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org (Tim Van Dyne) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:38:06 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman moderator email links variable References: Message-ID: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC7D6D2E@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> Okay well I changed the emails successfully to the moderator email addresses and removed the mailto: because these are announce-only lists, and having real emails would defeat the purpose of the obscuring. The last thing I'm trying to figure out with this section is how to take away the italics tag on just the email addresses. Basically "[/i]%(ownertext)s[i]" ...take it off then put it back on for emphasis of that text. The reverse is even acceptable, un-italicize everything, and then add [i]emails[/i] to make them stand out the inverse way. Any help with this is welcome. I'm not seeing where this text formatting is occurring. The code as I have it now: class HTMLFormatter: 40 def GetMailmanFooter(self): 41 ownertext = COMMASPACE.join([Utils.ObscureEmail(a, 1) 42 for a in self.moderator]) #changed to moderator from 'owner' 43 # Remove the .Format() when htmlformat conversion is done. 44 realname = self.real_name 45 hostname = self.host_name 46 listinfo_link = Link(self.GetScriptURL('listinfo'), realname).Format() 47 # owner_link = Link('mailto:' + self.GetOwnerEmail(), ownertext).Format() 48 # innertext = _('%(listinfo_link)s list run by %(owner_link)s') 49 innertext = _('%(listinfo_link)s list run by %(ownertext)s') 50 return Container( 51 '
    ', 52 Address( 53 Container( 54 innertext, 55 '
    ', 56 Link(self.GetScriptURL('admin'), 57 _('%(realname)s administrative interface')), 58 _(' (requires authorization)'), 59 '
    ', 60 Link(Utils.ScriptURL('listinfo'), 61 _('Overview of all %(hostname)s mailing lists')), 62 '

    ', MailmanLogo()))).Format() -----Original Message----- From: Tim Van Dyne Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:06 AM To: 'mailman-users at python.org' Subject: Mailman moderator email links variable After wading through the configs & google for a few hours I figure I'd just ask. Is there a variable that I can use to display moderator email address links. The same way owner_link is defined in HTMLFormatter.py: owner_link = Link('mailto:' + self.GetOwnerEmail(), ownertext).Format() The goal is to change the line in HTMLFormatter.py that displays the site owner email in the footer: innertext = _('%(listinfo_link)s list run by %(owner_link)s') To show moderator emails instead... -Tim- From dnewman at networktest.com Wed Jan 27 20:35:06 2010 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 11:35:06 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Really obscuring sender addresses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B60956A.7020306@networktest.com> On 1/26/10 5:07 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > David Newman wrote: >> I am looking to obscure any reference to the sender's address from list >> postings. >> >> Per the guidelines, this includes (all done via the Web UI): >> >> anonymous_list: Yes >> first_strip_reply_to: Yes >> reply_goes_to_list: Explicit address >> reply_to_address: info at example.com >> include_rfc2369_headers: Yes >> include_list_post_header: No >> >> However, test messages I've sent to the list still include my address in >> the message headers: >> >> Received: from host.example.com (host.example.com >> [10.0.0.123]) >> (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) >> (No client certificate requested) >> (Authenticated sender: dnewman at networktest.com) >> by mail.example.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8D354958A2 >> for ; >> Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:24:09 -0800 (PST) >> >> Is it possible to scrub that "Authenticated sender" line? > > > This is fixed in Mailman 2.1.13 - Received: headers are removed from > anonymized posts. > > If you can't upgrade, you can get the Cleanse.py module from > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files/head%3A/Mailman/Handlers/ > and replace your Mailman/Handlers/Cleanse.py with that one. It should > work with any Mailman 2.1.x version. Thanks, Mark. The FreeBSD ports collection still uses 2.1.12 but dropping in that file works; now the posts are anonymous. dn From johnf at net2000.com.au Thu Jan 28 01:29:28 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:29:28 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ? In-Reply-To: References: <22hvl5hlo1kss6vm1h9spv7rp7f24pkrqr@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 05:57:44 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: >>There appears to be a problem here. I get an error. Here is what >>happened.. >>C:\>mailman-subscribers.py -c http://domain listname_domain >>password >That is not correct. The first argument is just the host name (domain) >without any http:// Actually, I did try with, and without, the http. >>The filename, directory name, or volume label syntax is incorrect. >That error doesn't come from the script. Okay, I tried it again with a different mailing list. It worked. It looks like I must have initially entered something wrong with the password. < snip > >>Also, I don't suppose that there is a script to collect all the >>"customising" that one has done with a mailing list is there ? >It's called bin/config_list, but you probably can't run it in cPanel. >If you mean a script analagous to mailman-subscribers.py that will get >the information via the web interface, I'm not aware of any. Okay, thank you. Maybe a way for windows users to easily print out all the "customising" one does on a list would be handy for 3.0 ? So that when one gets things "just right" it is easy to reproduce in future lists. Regards, John. From phil at tallphil.co.uk Wed Jan 27 18:29:44 2010 From: phil at tallphil.co.uk (Phil Ewels) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:29:44 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding users with cron - permission problems Message-ID: <4B607808.40006@tallphil.co.uk> Hi all, I have a registration form where users, amongst other things, choose a number of mailing lists to sign up to. I don't want users to have to go and individually sign up to each list, so I'm trying to automate the signup process. After doing a bit of reading around, the closest I've got is to generate a plaintext file of email addresses for each newsletter and then use a cron command to sign these up, using the add_users program. To test, I've been running this cron command: echo test at testing.co.uk | /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/add_members -r - info Where info is the listname (info at nanotp.org) I get the following error: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/add_members", line 258, in ? main() File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/add_members", line 211, in main mlist = MailList.MailList(listname) File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__ self.Lock() File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock self.__lock.lock(timeout) File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock self.__write() File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w') IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/locks/info.lock.hephaestus.safeukdns.net.24247.0' I tried check_perms -f and get the same error: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/check_perms -f Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x). This could allow other users on your system to read private archives. If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the installation manual on how to fix this. Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/check_perms", line 399, in ? checkarchivedbs() File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/check_perms", line 258, in checkarchivedbs for dir in os.listdir(mm_cfg.PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR): OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/archives/private' Can anyone suggest a way to get around this problem? Or an alternative method of automating signups (they can be totally silent). I have tried a similar method using the PHP exec() command to hit the same program but had similar permission problems. Cheers, Phil From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Thu Jan 28 02:14:13 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:14:13 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding users with cron - permission problems In-Reply-To: <4B607808.40006@tallphil.co.uk> References: <4B607808.40006@tallphil.co.uk> Message-ID: <20100128011413.GL3079@amyl.org.uk> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 05:29:44PM +0000, Phil Ewels wrote: > After doing a bit of reading around, the closest I've got is to generate > a plaintext file of email addresses for each newsletter and then use a > cron command to sign these up, using the add_users program. > > To test, I've been running this cron command: > > echo test at testing.co.uk | > /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/add_members -r - info > > Where info is the listname (info at nanotp.org) > > IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: > '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/locks/info.lock.hephaestus.safeukdns.net.24247.0' > > Can anyone suggest a way to get around this problem? If you can, run the crontab as a user in the mailman (or whatever it's set to on your system) group. > Or an alternative > method of automating signups (they can be totally silent). A bundle of HTTP POST requests? Via subscribe-...@? From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 28 02:23:34 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:23:34 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman moderator email links variable In-Reply-To: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC7D6D2E@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> Message-ID: Tim Van Dyne wrote: >Okay well I changed the emails successfully to the moderator email >addresses and removed the mailto: because these are announce-only lists, >and having real emails would defeat the purpose of the obscuring. >The last thing I'm trying to figure out with this section is how to take >away the italics tag on just the email addresses. Basically >"[/i]%(ownertext)s[i]" ...take it off then put it back on for emphasis >of that text. > >The reverse is even acceptable, un-italicize everything, and then add >[i]emails[/i] to make them stand out the inverse way. > >Any help with this is welcome. I'm not seeing where this text >formatting is occurring. > >The code as I have it now: > >class HTMLFormatter: > 40 def GetMailmanFooter(self): > 41 ownertext = COMMASPACE.join([Utils.ObscureEmail(a, 1) > 42 for a in self.moderator]) >#changed to moderator from 'owner' > 43 # Remove the .Format() when htmlformat conversion is done. > 44 realname = self.real_name > 45 hostname = self.host_name > 46 listinfo_link = Link(self.GetScriptURL('listinfo'), >realname).Format() > 47 # owner_link = Link('mailto:' + self.GetOwnerEmail(), >ownertext).Format() > 48 # innertext = _('%(listinfo_link)s list run by >%(owner_link)s') > 49 innertext = _('%(listinfo_link)s list run by >%(ownertext)s') > 50 return Container( > 51 '

    ', > 52 Address( The Address class (defined in htmlformat.py) causes it's content to be enclosed in
    ...
    tags. These are what cause your browser to italicize the contents. Because the italics (in your browser but not necessarily all browsers) are caused by an
    tag, you can't turn them off and back on again with a ... sequence. If what you want is to have the text italicized except for the addresses, you can replace Address in line 52 with Italic and replace ... at line 49 with .... If what you want is just the addresses italicized, you can eliminate line 52 and replace ... at line 49 with .... There are other ways to make use of the htmlformat classes to generate the desired HTML, but the above seems simplest to explain. > 53 Container( > 54 innertext, > 55 '
    ', > 56 Link(self.GetScriptURL('admin'), > 57 _('%(realname)s administrative >interface')), > 58 _(' (requires authorization)'), > 59 '
    ', > 60 Link(Utils.ScriptURL('listinfo'), > 61 _('Overview of all %(hostname)s mailing >lists')), > 62 '

    ', MailmanLogo()))).Format() -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 28 02:27:55 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:27:55 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman moderator email links variable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark Sapiro wrote: > >If what you want is to have the text italicized except for the >addresses, you can replace Address in line 52 with Italic and replace >... at line 49 with .... Ooops. This is wrong because the Italic class generates an tag, not an tag, so if you replace Address with Italic, you need to use ... to turn it off and on. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 28 02:39:32 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:39:32 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding users with cron - permission problems In-Reply-To: <4B607808.40006@tallphil.co.uk> Message-ID: Phil Ewels wrote: > >To test, I've been running this cron command: > >echo test at testing.co.uk | >/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/add_members -r - info > >Where info is the listname (info at nanotp.org) > >I get the following error: > >Traceback (most recent call last): [...] >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: >'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/locks/info.lock.hephaestus.safeukdns.net.24247.0' > [...] > >Can anyone suggest a way to get around this problem? Or an alternative >method of automating signups (they can be totally silent). I have tried >a similar method using the PHP exec() command to hit the same program >but had similar permission problems. These commands must be run by root or a member of Mailman's group. Put your add_members command (if you can) in the Mailman user's crontab or a system crontab with the mailman user as it's user. Another way to do this is to create a SETGID wrapper to run the commands. See the members.c program attached to the FAQ at for an example. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From phil at tallphil.co.uk Thu Jan 28 09:08:16 2010 From: phil at tallphil.co.uk (Phil Ewels) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 08:08:16 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding users with cron - permission problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B6145F0.7070106@tallphil.co.uk> Thanks for the help everyone! I think I've just found the answer I was looking for via Marks link - using PHP to scrape a direct subscribe url: http:///mailman/admin//members/add?subscribe_or_invite=0&send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0¬ification_to_list_owner=0&subscribees_upload=&adminpw= http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030567 No cron / special permissions needed! Cheers, Phil Mark Sapiro wrote: > Phil Ewels wrote: >> To test, I've been running this cron command: >> >> echo test at testing.co.uk | >> /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/add_members -r - info >> >> Where info is the listname (info at nanotp.org) >> >> I get the following error: >> >> Traceback (most recent call last): > [...] >> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: >> '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/locks/info.lock.hephaestus.safeukdns.net.24247.0' >> > [...] >> Can anyone suggest a way to get around this problem? Or an alternative >> method of automating signups (they can be totally silent). I have tried >> a similar method using the PHP exec() command to hit the same program >> but had similar permission problems. > > > These commands must be run by root or a member of Mailman's group. Put > your add_members command (if you can) in the Mailman user's crontab or > a system crontab with the mailman user as it's user. > > Another way to do this is to create a SETGID wrapper to run the > commands. See the members.c program attached to the FAQ at > for an example. > From alessandro.bruchi at iit.it Thu Jan 28 02:57:31 2010 From: alessandro.bruchi at iit.it (bruchi iit) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 02:57:31 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help? In-Reply-To: <427508.51310.qm@web82007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <427508.51310.qm@web82007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B60EF0B.6000506@iit.it> Hi all, is there an option that permit to only list members to view subscription list without using password. I don't want to use "anyone" option because it is too open.. thank yu for your help bye Alessandro From wyldfury at gmail.com Thu Jan 28 16:05:13 2010 From: wyldfury at gmail.com (Guy) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:05:13 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on multiple web and mail servers In-Reply-To: References: <4a0444211001210845j4344b749oc5c9933636856b80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a0444211001280705g1d230a91t14c3dbdc6e0eece7@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the explanation Mark. On 22 January 2010 02:28, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > There is shared information in all of the archives, data, lists, locks, > logs and qfiles directories. These need to be on shared storage so > they are accessible to all web and mail servers. > > By the 'mail section', I'm guessing you mean the qrunners. The qrunners > need access to all the shared data, and if there are multiple qrunners > processing the same queue, they need to be sliced so they don't > interfere with each other. I've tried installing Mailman on Ubuntu from packages since it includes config for postfix-to-mailman.py. It seems to split a lot of the stuff between /usr, /var and /etc. /var/lib/mailman looks like this: root at ocelot:/var/lib/mailman# ls -alF total 36 drwxrwsr-x ?8 root list 4096 2010-01-28 11:32 ./ drwxr-xr-x 45 root root 4096 2010-01-28 11:32 ../ drwxrwsr-x ?4 root list 4096 2010-01-28 11:32 archives/ lrwxrwxrwx ?1 root root ? 20 2010-01-28 11:32 bin -> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/ lrwxrwxrwx ?1 root root ? 24 2010-01-28 11:32 cgi-bin -> /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/ lrwxrwxrwx ?1 root root ? 21 2010-01-28 11:32 cron -> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/ drwxrwsr-x ?2 root list 4096 2010-01-28 11:32 data/ lrwxrwxrwx ?1 root root ? 25 2010-01-28 11:32 icons -> /usr/share/images/mailman/ drwxrwsr-x ?3 root list 4096 2010-01-28 12:13 lists/ lrwxrwxrwx ?1 root root ? 17 2010-01-28 11:32 locks -> /var/lock/mailman/ lrwxrwxrwx ?1 root root ? 16 2010-01-28 11:32 logs -> /var/log/mailman/ lrwxrwxrwx ?1 root root ? 21 2010-01-28 11:32 mail -> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/ lrwxrwxrwx ?1 root root ? 24 2010-01-28 11:32 Mailman -> /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ drwxrwsr-x 37 root list 4096 2010-01-28 11:32 messages/ drwxrwsr-x ?3 list list 4096 2010-01-28 12:13 qfiles/ lrwxrwxrwx ?1 root root ? 24 2010-01-28 11:32 scripts -> /usr/lib/mailman/scripts/ drwxrwsr-x ?2 root list 4096 2009-06-01 12:35 spam/ lrwxrwxrwx ?1 root root ? 12 2010-01-28 11:32 templates -> /etc/mailman/ -rw-r--r-- ?1 root list ? 11 2009-06-01 12:36 .version If I put that directory on the SAN and move locks and logs to that location rather than where they pointing now, that should cover everything that needs to be shared right? I'm also uncertain of the crontabs since I'm not totally sure what all of them do.?Should I only enable the crontab.in stuff on one of the mail servers? The Ubuntu installation puts that per machine even if /var/lib/mailman is on shared storage but I can't imagine all the machines needing to run all the admin crons? crontab.in looks like this under Ubuntu: # At 8AM every day, mail reminders to admins as to pending requests. # They are less likely to ignore these reminders if they're mailed # early in the morning, but of course, this is local time... ;) 0 8 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs # # At 9AM, send notifications to disabled members that are due to be # reminded to re-enable their accounts. 0 9 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/disabled # # Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold delivery. 0 12 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests # # 5 AM on the first of each month, mail out password reminders. 0 5 1 * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds # # Every 5 mins, try to gate news to mail. ?You can comment this one out # if you don't want to allow gating, or don't have any going on right now, # or want to exclusively use a callback strategy instead of polling. 0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news # # At 3:27am every night, regenerate the gzip'd archive file. ?Only # turn this on if the internal archiver is used and # GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES is false in mm_cfg.py 27 3 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip # # At 4:30AM daily, cull old entries from the 'bad' and 'shunt' queues. 30 4 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/cull_bad_shunt > Slicing is not a directory structure thing. Each queue entry is a file > in the corresponding queue directory. E.g., qfiles/in/file. Slicing > just divides the file name space into sections each of which is > processed by its own runner. > Does slicing still require patching mailmanctl as laid out here - http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-March/060753.html? If so, is there an official patch for this? Or is the example shown safe to use? Thanks Guy -- Don't just do something...sit there! From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 28 16:09:22 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 07:09:22 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help? In-Reply-To: <4B60EF0B.6000506@iit.it> Message-ID: bruchi iit wrote: >Hi all, is there an option that permit to only list members to view >subscription list without using password. >I don't want to use "anyone" option because it is too open.. No there is not. If there were, how would you prevent anyone from guessing the address of a member and seeing the roster? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 28 17:41:46 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 08:41:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on multiple web and mail servers In-Reply-To: <4a0444211001280705g1d230a91t14c3dbdc6e0eece7@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a0444211001210845j4344b749oc5c9933636856b80@mail.gmail.com> <4a0444211001280705g1d230a91t14c3dbdc6e0eece7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B61BE4A.3040307@msapiro.net> On 1/28/2010 7:05 AM, Guy wrote: > > I've tried installing Mailman on Ubuntu from packages since it > includes config for postfix-to-mailman.py. > It seems to split a lot of the stuff between /usr, /var and /etc. > > /var/lib/mailman looks like this: > root at ocelot:/var/lib/mailman# ls -alF > total 36 > drwxrwsr-x 8 root list 4096 2010-01-28 11:32 ./ > drwxr-xr-x 45 root root 4096 2010-01-28 11:32 ../ > drwxrwsr-x 4 root list 4096 2010-01-28 11:32 archives/ > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 2010-01-28 11:32 bin -> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/ > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 2010-01-28 11:32 cgi-bin -> > /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/ > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 2010-01-28 11:32 cron -> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/ > drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2010-01-28 11:32 data/ > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 2010-01-28 11:32 icons -> > /usr/share/images/mailman/ > drwxrwsr-x 3 root list 4096 2010-01-28 12:13 lists/ > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 2010-01-28 11:32 locks -> /var/lock/mailman/ > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 2010-01-28 11:32 logs -> /var/log/mailman/ > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 2010-01-28 11:32 mail -> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/ > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 2010-01-28 11:32 Mailman -> > /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ > drwxrwsr-x 37 root list 4096 2010-01-28 11:32 messages/ > drwxrwsr-x 3 list list 4096 2010-01-28 12:13 qfiles/ > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 2010-01-28 11:32 scripts -> > /usr/lib/mailman/scripts/ > drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2009-06-01 12:35 spam/ > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 2010-01-28 11:32 templates -> /etc/mailman/ > -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 11 2009-06-01 12:36 .version > > If I put that directory on the SAN and move locks and logs to that > location rather than where they pointing now, that should cover > everything that needs to be shared right? Yes. > I'm also uncertain of the crontabs since I'm not totally sure what all > of them do. Should I only enable the crontab.in stuff on one of the > mail servers? The Ubuntu installation puts that per machine even if > /var/lib/mailman is on shared storage but I can't imagine all the > machines needing to run all the admin crons? Right. I would suggest installing the crontab on only one machine. There will be problems with duplication of some notices if their respective crons are run more than once. Others can safely run on multiple servers, but there is no need. > crontab.in looks like this under Ubuntu: > # At 8AM every day, mail reminders to admins as to pending requests. > # They are less likely to ignore these reminders if they're mailed > # early in the morning, but of course, this is local time... ;) > 0 8 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs checkdbs will produce duplicate notices if run more than once > # > # At 9AM, send notifications to disabled members that are due to be > # reminded to re-enable their accounts. > 0 9 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/disabled > # > # Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold delivery. > 0 12 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests > # > # 5 AM on the first of each month, mail out password reminders. > 0 5 1 * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds mailpasswds will produce duplicate notices if run more than once > # > # Every 5 mins, try to gate news to mail. You can comment this one out > # if you don't want to allow gating, or don't have any going on right now, > # or want to exclusively use a callback strategy instead of polling. > 0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * /usr/bin/python -S > /var/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news > # > # At 3:27am every night, regenerate the gzip'd archive file. Only > # turn this on if the internal archiver is used and > # GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES is false in mm_cfg.py > 27 3 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip > # > # At 4:30AM daily, cull old entries from the 'bad' and 'shunt' queues. > 30 4 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/ cull_bad_shunt does no locking so there will be race conditions that could cause (harmless) errors - remove or rename of a non-existent file already removed or renamed by another instance. The others not noted above as producing duplicates are probably safe because of locking, but there's no need to have that lock contention (and I may be wrong about their being safe). > >> Slicing is not a directory structure thing. Each queue entry is a file >> in the corresponding queue directory. E.g., qfiles/in/file. Slicing >> just divides the file name space into sections each of which is >> processed by its own runner. >> > > Does slicing still require patching mailmanctl as laid out here - > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-March/060753.html? > If so, is there an official patch for this? Or is the example shown safe to use? There is no 'official' patch, but the one you point to is good. I have updated the FAQ at to point to that post and thread. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 29 02:08:19 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:08:19 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive nightmare with vhosts In-Reply-To: <593263B6-10D2-4884-A2A9-D7890E713C9A@gmail.com> Message-ID: UGSD quoted me and wrote: >> Before you commit too heavily to this, I suggest you look at the first >> 570+ lines at >> >> and see if you really want to be installing a 4 year old release. > >The only reason i chose 2.1.7 is because the patch applied cleanly, but i guess you are right. >I just sat down and applied the patch to the 2.1.13 source. There few few rejects, but I went through >all of them and it looks like that code that already made it upstream and included in 2.1.13. I made a 2.1.13 vhost patch a little differently. I made a bazaar 2.1.7 branch, applied the 2.1.7 vhosts patch, committed the result, did a bzr merge from the 2.1.13 branch which produced 5 conflicts, the only significant ones being in Mailman/MTA/Utils.py and Mailman/Utils.py, and resolved the conflicts. I am testing with that. This patch is at if you're interested. It is essentially the 2.1.7 patch, but fixed to apply cleanly to 2.1.13. >Compiled and installed it, but for the life of me i cant create a new list for a virtual domain. > > bin/newlist -u lists.domain1.net test-list at lists.domain1.net > >and end up with > > Illegal list name: pruchai-test at lists.calit2.net > >This is very strange, because the domain already exists in mm_cfg.py and the patch applied cleanly to bin/newlist too. >Any idea what may be wrong? Yes. Really the MailList.Create() method should be patched, but the workaround is to add ACCEPTABLE_LISTNAME_CHARACTERS = '[-+_.=a-z0-9@]' to mm_cfg.py. This adds '@' to the default list of acceptable listname characters and allows list names with '@' to pass a new (since 2.1.7) check in MailList.Create(). As far as the problems with the archives are concerned, I've tested just a bit and I see the problem (but not the solution yet). I think part of the problem for me is that the host name in a listname at hostname list cannot be the same as DEFAULT_URL_HOST. I have a DNS issue on my test machine that makes it difficult for me to add additional host names so that's hampering my testing at the moment. But the issue is more than that. At the moment, I have four lists - two lists.listname lists and two lists/msapiro.net/listname lists. All four of these appear on the overviews at http://msapiro.net/mailman/admin and http://msapiro.net/mailman/listinfo with link URLs like http://msapiro.net/mailman/admin/listname and http://msapiro.net/mailman/listinfo/listname, but only the lists/msapiro.net/listname list URLs work. The others give "No such list listname at msapiro.net". I will continue to look at this, but if your testing turns up anything, let us know. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From wyldfury at gmail.com Fri Jan 29 17:48:07 2010 From: wyldfury at gmail.com (Guy) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:48:07 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with multiple domains Message-ID: <4a0444211001290848n72efcfd8ve4de5d7b627e0e0e@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I've got Mailman up and running and looks good, but I'm not sure about multiple domains. mm_cfg.py contains this section: POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.domain2.net'] add_virtualhost('lists.domain2.net', 'domain2.net') Mail sent to mailman at lists.domain1.net (the default URL and email hosts are lists.domain1.net) goes through fine, but mailman at lists.domain2.net disappear once they are passed to mailman by postfix. There is nothing in the mailman log files for the attempted delivery to lists.domain2.net. I'm using the Ubuntu Karmic package of Mailman which includes postfix-to-mailman.py, not sure if that effects this. I believe that mailing lists exist across all virtual domains listed? Is there any way to allow for the same mailing list on different domains with one instance of mailman? So I could have users at lists.domain1.net AND users at lists.domain2.net as two separate lists. Thanks Guy -- Don't just do something...sit there! From underground.sd at gmail.com Fri Jan 29 17:54:46 2010 From: underground.sd at gmail.com (UGSD) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 08:54:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive nightmare with vhosts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark, > I made a 2.1.13 vhost patch a little differently. I made a bazaar 2.1.7 > branch, applied the 2.1.7 vhosts patch, committed the result, did a > bzr merge from the 2.1.13 branch which produced 5 conflicts, the only > significant ones being in Mailman/MTA/Utils.py and Mailman/Utils.py, > and resolved the conflicts. > > I am testing with that. This patch is at > if you're interested. > It is essentially the 2.1.7 patch, but fixed to apply cleanly to > 2.1.13. > Thank you for taking a look at this. I really appreciate it. > > > Yes. Really the MailList.Create() method should be patched, but the > workaround is to add > > ACCEPTABLE_LISTNAME_CHARACTERS = '[-+_.=a-z0-9@]' > > to mm_cfg.py. This adds '@' to the default list of acceptable listname > characters and allows list names with '@' to pass a new (since 2.1.7) > check in MailList.Create(). Yep, i figured this one out. > > As far as the problems with the archives are concerned, I've tested > just a bit and I see the problem (but not the solution yet). I think > part of the problem for me is that the host name in a > listname at hostname list cannot be the same as DEFAULT_URL_HOST. I have > a DNS issue on my test machine that makes it difficult for me to add > additional host names so that's hampering my testing at the moment. I got around the DNS issue with /etc/hosts, may not work in your case, i guess After not being able to create a list, I had another issue (not seen in 2.1.7), where the alias file was created in the form of lists.domain1.net=list-name-unsubscribe: "|/path/to/mailman unsubscribe lists.domain1.net=list-name" which mailman did not understand and complained that "lists.domain1.net=list-name" not found. The problem was in Mailman/MTA/Utils.py and _makealiases_mailprog() function, so i just modified it to accept another variable and use it def _makealiases_mailprog(listname, at_name, internal_listname=None): <<--- i added at_name for ext in ('admin', 'bounces', 'confirm', 'join', 'leave', 'owner', 'request', 'subscribe', 'unsubscribe'): aliases.append(('%s-%s' % (listname, ext), '"|%s %s %s"' % (wrapper, ext, at_name))) <<--- i added at_name and then change Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py for k, v in makealiases(_generate_alias(mlist), listname, <<--- added listname var here internal_listname = listname): This fixed the alias creation. I was able to subscribe to the list, however, i was not able to post to the list, because list names were still translated into "lists.domain1.net=list-name". Tacked it down to the post script in scripts folder, and had to modify "listname" variable in mail() try: foo = sys.argv[1] listname = foo.split('=') listname.reverse() listname = '@'.join(listname) This change allowed me to post, but this is where i hit the same problems as i did originally with 2.1.7 install. So i had to use my mod_rewrite trick, modify Mailman/Cgi/pryvate.py host = os.environ.get('SERVER_NAME') <<----- needed to for Utils.maketext() and list_name = listname.split("@") m_list = list_name[0] true_filename = os.path.join( mm_cfg.PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR, host, m_list) and then modify templates/en/private.html and change form action, it it allows me to authenticate private archives.

    > But the issue is more than that. At the moment, I have four lists - two > lists.listname lists and two lists/msapiro.net/listname lists. All > four of these appear on the overviews at > http://msapiro.net/mailman/admin and > http://msapiro.net/mailman/listinfo with link URLs like > http://msapiro.net/mailman/admin/listname and > http://msapiro.net/mailman/listinfo/listname, but only the > lists/msapiro.net/listname list URLs work. The others give "No such > list listname at msapiro.net". Now i was able to see the private archive table of contents, but none of the links were functional, so clicking on a link pointing to http://lists.domain1.net/private/list-name at lists.domain1.net/2010-January/thread.html reloads the page, adding another "2010-Janury" in the browser address bar http://lists.domain1.net/private/list-name at lists.domain1.net/2010-January/2010-January/thread.html http://lists.domain1.net/private/list-name at lists.domain1.net/2010-January/2010-January/2010-January/thread.html and so on. Unfortunately i haven't been able to get around this issue yet. > > > I will continue to look at this, but if your testing turns up anything, > let us know. > Thanks again, Mark! -Igor From underground.sd at gmail.com Fri Jan 29 18:04:27 2010 From: underground.sd at gmail.com (UGSD) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 09:04:27 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with multiple domains In-Reply-To: <4a0444211001290848n72efcfd8ve4de5d7b627e0e0e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a0444211001290848n72efcfd8ve4de5d7b627e0e0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > I believe that mailing lists exist across all virtual domains listed? > Is there any way to allow for the same mailing list on different > domains with one instance of mailman? > So I could have users at lists.domain1.net AND users at lists.domain2.net as > two separate lists. Currently, out of the box, Mailman shares namespace between virtual domains, so you can not have users at lists.domain1.net and users at lists.domain2.net. However, there is a vhost patch that would allow you to do that, but it would require couple of modifications and some apache rewrite rules. This patch mostly works. Mostly, because there is an issue with viewing private, password protected archives, which i haven't been able to find a work-around for. For more information check out this thread (it has somewhat detailed instructions): http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-January/068543.html - Igor From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 29 18:55:41 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 09:55:41 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with multiple domains In-Reply-To: <4a0444211001290848n72efcfd8ve4de5d7b627e0e0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Guy wrote: > >I've got Mailman up and running and looks good, but I'm not sure about >multiple domains. > >mm_cfg.py contains this section: >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.domain2.net'] >add_virtualhost('lists.domain2.net', 'domain2.net') First of all, the domain(s) in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS are the email domains, not the web domains ('domain2.net' in this case) >Mail sent to mailman at lists.domain1.net (the default URL and email >hosts are lists.domain1.net) goes through fine, but >mailman at lists.domain2.net disappear once they are passed to mailman by >postfix. If you are actually mailing to mailman at lists.domain2.net as opposed to mailman at domain2.net, your add_virtualhost should have 'lists.domain2.net' as it's second argument. >There is nothing in the mailman log files for the attempted delivery >to lists.domain2.net. What about in Postfix logs? >I'm using the Ubuntu Karmic package of Mailman which includes >postfix-to-mailman.py, not sure if that effects this. In that case, POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS is irrelevant. Do you have both lists.domain1.net and lists.domain2.net mapped to the mailman transport in your transport_maps database? >I believe that mailing lists exist across all virtual domains listed? >Is there any way to allow for the same mailing list on different >domains with one instance of mailman? >So I could have users at lists.domain1.net AND users at lists.domain2.net as >two separate lists. Not with Standard Mailman 2.1.x and not with postfix_to_mailman.py -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 29 21:51:17 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:51:17 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive nightmare with vhosts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: UGSD wrote: > >I got around the DNS issue with /etc/hosts, may not work in your case, i guess Yeah, I can do that too. I've actually created another domain that way, but I havent gotten back to debugging yet. >After not being able to create a list, I had another issue (not seen in 2.1.7), where the alias file was created in the form of > >lists.domain1.net=list-name-unsubscribe: "|/path/to/mailman unsubscribe lists.domain1.net=list-name" > >which mailman did not understand and complained that "lists.domain1.net=list-name" not found. > >The problem was in Mailman/MTA/Utils.py and _makealiases_mailprog() function, so i just modified it to accept another variable and use it I'm not sure where the '=' comes from, and I don't know if this is the issue, but Mailman/MTA/Utils.py is one of two modules that had a real conflict when I merged the patches with 2.1.13. The attached MTA_Utils.py.patch.txt patch is (I think) the proper fix. The secton at "@@ -48,13 +54,12 @@" is where the problem was. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: MTA_Utils.py.patch.txt URL: From johnf at net2000.com.au Fri Jan 29 23:55:05 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 09:55:05 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New mailing list moderation in cPanel ? Message-ID: <5ep6m5t11vafaibmuic3h3r3j7kthnl3q0@4ax.com> I just made a new mailing list. "Moderation" of posts seems to be set as the "default", but I am pretty sure that I didn't set that up anywhere. The member list doesn't show the moderation flag ticked. In the Privacy options I have "By default, should new list member postings be moderated? " set to "No". I am obviously missing something obvious. Would someone here please direct me to where member moderation is set/un set in cPanel please ? Thanks. Regards, John. From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 30 01:37:44 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:37:44 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New mailing list moderation in cPanel ? In-Reply-To: <5ep6m5t11vafaibmuic3h3r3j7kthnl3q0@4ax.com> Message-ID: John Fitzsimons wrote: > >I am obviously missing something obvious. Would someone here please >direct me to where member moderation is set/un set in cPanel please ? What is the exact reason for the held post(s)? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnf at net2000.com.au Sat Jan 30 02:29:00 2010 From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:29:00 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New mailing list moderation in cPanel ? In-Reply-To: References: <5ep6m5t11vafaibmuic3h3r3j7kthnl3q0@4ax.com> Message-ID: <9k27m5h4o7foevbd2s487eiujthqm7kn57@4ax.com> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:37:44 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: >>I am obviously missing something obvious. Would someone here please >>direct me to where member moderation is set/un set in cPanel please ? >What is the exact reason for the held post(s)? "Post by non-member to a members-only list" I hadn't expected that message as I was sure that the person who posted was already a member. Looks like she was a bit fast in posting. Things seem okay now. Thank you for your help. :-) Regards, John. From stephen at xemacs.org Sat Jan 30 07:25:04 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:25:04 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New mailing list moderation in cPanel ? In-Reply-To: <9k27m5h4o7foevbd2s487eiujthqm7kn57@4ax.com> References: <5ep6m5t11vafaibmuic3h3r3j7kthnl3q0@4ax.com> <9k27m5h4o7foevbd2s487eiujthqm7kn57@4ax.com> Message-ID: <878wbgrtxb.fsf@xemacs.org> John Fitzsimons writes: > "Post by non-member to a members-only list" > > I hadn't expected that message as I was sure that the person who > posted was already a member. The person may have been, but she may have been posting from a different address. > Looks like she was a bit fast in posting. That's the most likely reason, I guess. But for future reference, remember that Mailman 2 has no notion of "member", only "subscribed address". Mailman 3 will surely have some way for members to specify alternative addresses. And possibly, some way to guess certain variants. Eg, if "turnbull at sk.domain.tld" is subscribed, then "turnbull at shako.sk.domain.tld" probably is the same person. But Mailman 2 doesn't have it. I chose that example (real but obfuscated) for a reason. Specifically, the second variant is today used only by spammers; I haven't sent a message with that "From" since 1995, and I doubt it's been used as "Sender" more than a very small handful of times since 2000. So this would have to be an aid to moderators/list owners, not something one automates. (I've reported this as a feature request: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/514625.) From danny at puterakembara.org Sat Jan 30 00:28:19 2010 From: danny at puterakembara.org (Danny hendrawan) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:28:19 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Howto retrieve the date of list members subcribed to the list Message-ID: <3474EA6178C2421B8D07FDD10A6EE12E@userPC> Hi, I am running a "paid" mailman list for my community on a dedicated server (cpanel) - we provide member with our own email address to post message to the list. I'd like to retrieve the "date" when my list member got subscribed to my list. I am familiar with the following commands: /usr/mailman/bin/list_members -n byadmin listname /usr/mailman/bin/list_members -n bybounce listname /usr/mailman/bin/list_members -n byuser listname but "/usr/mailman/bin/list_members -n bydate listname" was not exist. Can anyone please help. Thanks in advance, Danny From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Sat Jan 30 15:33:00 2010 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:33:00 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Howto retrieve the date of list members subcribed to the list In-Reply-To: <3474EA6178C2421B8D07FDD10A6EE12E@userPC> References: <3474EA6178C2421B8D07FDD10A6EE12E@userPC> Message-ID: <20100130143259.GA7385@charite.de> * Danny hendrawan : > Hi, > > I am running a "paid" mailman list for my community on a dedicated server (cpanel) - we provide member with our own email address to post message to the list. > > I'd like to retrieve the "date" when my list member got subscribed to my list. You need to retrieve that info from the mailman logs (logs/subscribe) Jan 30 00:00:34 2010 (20822) listname: new address at domain, -- Ralf Hildebrandt Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 30 15:48:43 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:48:43 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Howto retrieve the date of list members subcribedto the list In-Reply-To: <3474EA6178C2421B8D07FDD10A6EE12E@userPC> Message-ID: Danny hendrawan wrote: > >I am running a "paid" mailman list for my community on a dedicated server (cpanel) - we provide member with our own email address to post message to the list. > >I'd like to retrieve the "date" when my list member got subscribed to my list. > >I am familiar with the following commands: >/usr/mailman/bin/list_members -n byadmin listname >/usr/mailman/bin/list_members -n bybounce listname >/usr/mailman/bin/list_members -n byuser listname > >but "/usr/mailman/bin/list_members -n bydate listname" was not exist. The options '-n byadmin', '-n bybounce' and '-n byuser' are used to list only those members whose delivery is disabled by the list admin, bounce processing or the user respectively. Thus, '-n bydate' is meaningless. Further, Mailman does not store the user's subscribe date so that information is simple unavailable from the list. The only way to find when a user subscribed is to find that user's subscribe entry in Mailman's subscribe log(s). E.g. grep -i user at example.com /usr/local/mailman/logs/subscribe* (substitute the desired address and the correct path to Mailman's logs if different). Of course, this assumes that the information wasn't in a log that has disappeared via rotation. Thus, if you really want to do this, either don't rotate Mailman's subscribe log or keep your own subscription date records. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From albert.aribaud at free.fr Sun Jan 31 02:23:32 2010 From: albert.aribaud at free.fr (Albert ARIBAUD) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 02:23:32 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman bounce counters and delivery of spam Message-ID: <4B64DB94.8040403@free.fr> Hi all, I am subscribed to a list managed by... mailman. :) From time to time, spam makes it to the list and is thus distributed to list members. When this happens and the spam is delivered to my provider (free.fr), this provider rejects it by a "550 Spam detected" message -- which is fine because I don't receive the spam. But then mailman receives this 550 and erroneously concludes that something is wrong with my address, and increments my bounce counter. When spam comes in a "burst" (in practice that means one spam every two days for ten days) it triggers confirmation, and a "confirm ..." message is sent to me (this is how I found out there was an issue). I am a bit bothered by the fact that *I* am considered to have a problem with e-mail delivery by this mailman when in fact the issue is mailman delivering spam in the first place. Of course, there's no way to make entirely sure spam doesn't end up on a list. But is there a way (besides patching and recompiling) to let mailman know that 5xx (and possibly 4xx as well) rejects which mention spam should not cause an increase of the bounce counter? Thanks in advance! Amicalement, -- Albert. From dsrva at yahoo.com Sun Jan 31 03:13:59 2010 From: dsrva at yahoo.com (Doug Smith) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:13:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ouytgoing mail header question... Message-ID: <190983.37197.qm@web45914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hey folks I have no idea if this is a MailMan issue or a standard feature of any outgoing email with multiple recipients so please bear with me if it isn't even a MailMan issue... When I look at the outgoing mail queue on my server when MailMan is in the process of sending out one of it's messages, I see something akin to the following in the header lines. ----------------------------------- 1NbOfW-0004fm-J9-H mailnull 47 12 1264901526 0 -helo_name server.hostname.net -host_address 127.0.0.1.41150 -host_name localhost -interface_address 127.0.0.1.25 -ident mailman -received_protocol esmtp -body_linecount 58 -max_received_linelength 120 YY recipient at domain1.com YY recipient at domain2.com NN recipient at domain3.com YY recipient at domain4.com NY recipient at domain5.com ----------------------------------- My question is, what do the Yes and No flags at the start of each recipient line indicate? Thanks, DB From stephen at xemacs.org Sun Jan 31 13:07:32 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:07:32 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman bounce counters and delivery of spam In-Reply-To: <4B64DB94.8040403@free.fr> References: <4B64DB94.8040403@free.fr> Message-ID: <87fx5mqxyz.fsf@xemacs.org> Albert ARIBAUD writes: > But is there a way (besides patching and recompiling) to let mailman > know that 5xx (and possibly 4xx as well) rejects which mention spam > should not cause an increase of the bounce counter? 4xx should be handled at the MTA level by retrying. If I were you, I'd fix the spam problem by improving the spam filters in front of Mailman. Eg, move the list to free.fr, which apparently has better spam detection than your Mailman host does. From albert.aribaud at free.fr Sun Jan 31 16:12:10 2010 From: albert.aribaud at free.fr (Albert ARIBAUD) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:12:10 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman bounce counters and delivery of spam In-Reply-To: <87fx5mqxyz.fsf@xemacs.org> References: <4B64DB94.8040403@free.fr> <87fx5mqxyz.fsf@xemacs.org> Message-ID: <4B659DCA.7000404@free.fr> Stephen J. Turnbull a ?crit : > Albert ARIBAUD writes: > > > But is there a way (besides patching and recompiling) to let mailman > > know that 5xx (and possibly 4xx as well) rejects which mention spam > > should not cause an increase of the bounce counter? > > 4xx should be handled at the MTA level by retrying. You're right--4xx does not increase the bounce counter. That leaves only the 5xx. > If I were you, I'd fix the spam problem by improving the spam filters > in front of Mailman. Eg, move the list to free.fr, which apparently > has better spam detection than your Mailman host does. Well, I can't argue that in this instance free.fr does a better job of detecting spam than the list, but a) free.fr does not provide mailing lists beyond the most basic functionality, and b) I'm not in position to suggest moving the list as I'm not the owner, only a member. Regarding your suggestion of better spam detection at the earliest stage, I agree wholeheartedly. But while I might be able to suggest mailman settings to the list owner, heavier actions such as changing the spam detection methods in place on the list are out of question. Amicalement, -- Albert. From stephen at xemacs.org Sun Jan 31 16:44:14 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 00:44:14 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman bounce counters and delivery of spam In-Reply-To: <4B659DCA.7000404@free.fr> References: <4B64DB94.8040403@free.fr> <87fx5mqxyz.fsf@xemacs.org> <4B659DCA.7000404@free.fr> Message-ID: <87d40qqnxt.fsf@xemacs.org> Albert ARIBAUD writes: > Regarding your suggestion of better spam detection at the earliest > stage, I agree wholeheartedly. But while I might be able to suggest > mailman settings to the list owner, heavier actions such as changing the > spam detection methods in place on the list are out of question. Well, it might be possible in cases of repeated spam to add rules to the mailman spam checker. If not, or that's not timely enough, it's too bad, because I suspect that to get treatment of 5xx statuses changed based on the DSN text you'll need to hack the source and restart Mailman (Python will automatically recompile out-of-date .pycs, so you don't need to worry about rebuilding Mailman). But that sounds like a heavier action too. Don't lose hope yet, though, I'm not authoritative on this, I just seem to remember that to the the case. From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 31 17:03:52 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 08:03:52 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman bounce counters and delivery of spam In-Reply-To: <4B659DCA.7000404@free.fr> Message-ID: Albert ARIBAUD wrote: > >Well, I can't argue that in this instance free.fr does a better job of >detecting spam than the list, but a) free.fr does not provide mailing >lists beyond the most basic functionality, and b) I'm not in position to >suggest moving the list as I'm not the owner, only a member. > >Regarding your suggestion of better spam detection at the earliest >stage, I agree wholeheartedly. But while I might be able to suggest >mailman settings to the list owner, heavier actions such as changing the >spam detection methods in place on the list are out of question. So you agree that the problem is that the management of the Mailman installation and/or the list is not effective in keeping spam off the list, but you ask us change Mailman to solve it. Note that if the list server had spam detection as effective as yours, there would be no problem. Perhaps you can change your own spam detection to just drop rather than reject a message with Precedence: list. Anyway, a request to change Mailman to mitigate the effects of ineffective management is not necessarily unreasonable, but I think it is in this case. The definition of a 550 in both RFCs 2821 and 5321 is: 550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable (e.g., mailbox not found, no access, or command rejected for policy reasons) You ask that any 550 (or 5xx) that mentions spam be ignored by Mailman, but what about all those 550s generated with text like "Service Unavailable" or other generic reasons which I suspect are as common in rejections of spam as reasons that mention spam specifically. Mailman's bounce recognition is already overloaded with kludges and heuristics. Adding even more for this is not going to happen. And, my suggestion to change your spam detection is only intended to encourage you to think about what a can of worms you'd be opening when you try to do things like this. As far as suggesting changes to the owner goes, what is the list's policy for non-member posts? Discarding or Holding them blocks a lot of spam. Rejecting is bad because it will bounce spam to the From: address which is certainly forged, and Accepting just invites spam on the list. Also, if the list allows subscription without admin approval, new members should be moderated by default. If the list is active (at least 1 post per day) and spam is only delivered every second or third day, setting bounce_info_stale_after to 1 and possibly reducing the threshold score may solve the problem without impacting bounce processing for dead addresses. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 31 17:37:27 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 08:37:27 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ouytgoing mail header question... In-Reply-To: <190983.37197.qm@web45914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Doug Smith wrote: > >When I look at the outgoing mail queue on my server when MailMan is in the process of sending out one of it's messages, I see something akin to the following in the header lines. > >----------------------------------- >1NbOfW-0004fm-J9-H >mailnull 47 12 > >1264901526 0 >-helo_name server.hostname.net >-host_address 127.0.0.1.41150 >-host_name localhost >-interface_address 127.0.0.1.25 >-ident mailman >-received_protocol esmtp >-body_linecount 58 >-max_received_linelength 120 >YY recipient at domain1.com >YY recipient at domain2.com >NN recipient at domain3.com >YY recipient at domain4.com >NY recipient at domain5.com >----------------------------------- > >My question is, what do the Yes and No flags at the start of each recipient line indicate? This is a question for your MTA. If you are seeing the above as the output of some command like 'mailq' or similar, consult its manpage or other documentation. If it is the content of some file, consult the MTA documentation for the format of that file. Just guessing, I'd say that one column of Y and N indicates whether the message has been delivered to that recipient's MX. I have no guess as to what the other column means -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From albert.aribaud at free.fr Sun Jan 31 19:10:06 2010 From: albert.aribaud at free.fr (Albert ARIBAUD) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:10:06 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman bounce counters and delivery of spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B65C77E.1060200@free.fr> Mark Sapiro a ?crit : > Albert ARIBAUD wrote: >> Well, I can't argue that in this instance free.fr does a better job of >> detecting spam than the list, but a) free.fr does not provide mailing >> lists beyond the most basic functionality, and b) I'm not in position to >> suggest moving the list as I'm not the owner, only a member. >> >> Regarding your suggestion of better spam detection at the earliest >> stage, I agree wholeheartedly. But while I might be able to suggest >> mailman settings to the list owner, heavier actions such as changing the >> spam detection methods in place on the list are out of question. > > > So you agree that the problem is that the management of the Mailman > installation and/or the list is not effective in keeping spam off the > list, but you ask us change Mailman to solve it. Uhm... Precisely no, I don't ask that. I even specifically asked for any solution *except patching and recompiling* mailman! What I am after is advice on *configuring* a mailman setup so that at least spam rejections don't increase bounce count. Note also that this does not imply that spam rejections should be ignored altogether; if someone can advise on a solution where spam rejections do not increase bounce count *and* get signalled to the mailman list/server owner (so that he knows his own spam protection goofed), then I'll be quite happy with it! > Note that if the list server had spam detection as effective as yours, > there would be no problem. Perhaps you can change your own spam > detection to just drop rather than reject a message with Precedence: > list. I'm afraid I cannot influence my provider's spam rejection at SMTP session time. I have some control mon mail that was accepted at SMTP time, but that's too late wrt my bounce counter problem. > Anyway, a request to change Mailman to mitigate the effects of > ineffective management is not necessarily unreasonable, but I think it > is in this case. The definition of a 550 in both RFCs 2821 and 5321 is: > > 550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable (e.g., mailbox > not found, no access, or command rejected for policy reasons) > > You ask that any 550 (or 5xx) that mentions spam be ignored by Mailman, > but what about all those 550s generated with text like "Service > Unavailable" or other generic reasons which I suspect are as common in > rejections of spam as reasons that mention spam specifically. Uhm... No, I don't ask that *all* 5xx rejects be ignored, only that *those 5xx rejects that mention spam* be ignored, not that *any 5xx* be ignored--see my original post. Indeed, ignoring all 5xx rejects would render the whole bounce counter idea useless, so I'm definitely not talking about this. > Mailman's bounce recognition is already overloaded with kludges and > heuristics. Adding even more for this is not going to happen. > > And, my suggestion to change your spam detection is only intended to > encourage you to think about what a can of worms you'd be opening when > you try to do things like this. > > As far as suggesting changes to the owner goes, what is the list's > policy for non-member posts? Discarding or Holding them blocks a lot > of spam. Rejecting is bad because it will bounce spam to the From: > address which is certainly forged, and Accepting just invites spam > on the list. They're discarded as far as I know -- the owner is aware -- as I am -- of 'spam fighting 101' rules such as the "no open list" and "no bouncing spam to From:" ones you raised here. > Also, if the list allows subscription without admin > approval, new members should be moderated by default. I'm not sure about moderation. I will forward this point to the list owner. > If the list is active (at least 1 post per day) and spam is only > delivered every second or third day, setting bounce_info_stale_after > to 1 and possibly reducing the threshold score may solve the problem > without impacting bounce processing for dead addresses. Thanks. Seeing as the list in question has had on average fifty messages per day during the last ten days, the conditions you state are met. I'll forward your suggestion to the list owner. Amicalement, -- Albert. From dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net Sun Jan 31 19:59:13 2010 From: dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:59:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam from list-owner to own list Message-ID: Seem to be getting this a lot on ffml at here - spam comes from ffml-owner, but that address is not subscribed, so it bounces, and bombards six people with rejected spam. Is there a more elegant way to deal with this than add subscriber to a 'summarily discard all' rule? -Dennis From johnservetas at yahoo.gr Sun Jan 31 13:18:23 2010 From: johnservetas at yahoo.gr (=?UTF-8?B?zpPOuc6szr3Ovc63z4IgzqPOtc+BzrLOtc+EzqzPgg==?=) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:18:23 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove default attachments and Greek language support Message-ID: <4B65750F.1070004@yahoo.gr> Hello, every time I send an attached file to my mailing list, the users that receive that e-mail, claim that there appear to be more than one attached files in the received message. Last time I tested it: I attached to the outgoing message 2 files. I received a message with the 2 attached files, but there had been attached 2 more files (with names "Part 1.2" and "Part 1.5"). 1. Is that possible to configure Mailman NOT TO attach by default extra files to the message? How should I do that? 2. I have written the header and footer text of the messages in greek language. Thus, the text appeared in the received messages displays something like "αυτό ε". In "Language Options", there doesn't seem to support Greek language. Are there any localizations available and how can i install them? Thank you in advance P.S.: I use Mailman 2.1.12.cp3 From yaofolo at yahoo.fr Sun Jan 31 16:45:30 2010 From: yaofolo at yahoo.fr (Yao Fololo) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:45:30 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot see pending message waiting for approval In-Reply-To: <4B659DCA.7000404@free.fr> Message-ID: <906471.9845.qm@web28408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi all, I just install Mailman on a new server. The moderator of one of my lists has received a request for approval but when he clicks on the link, there is no message to approve.? Any help? Thanks in advance. Yao From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Sun Jan 31 20:35:33 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:35:33 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam from list-owner to own list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100131193533.GY3079@amyl.org.uk> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 10:59:13AM -0800, Dennis Carr wrote: > Seem to be getting this a lot on ffml at here - spam comes from ffml-owner, > but that address is not subscribed, so it bounces, and bombards six people > with rejected spam. Is there a more elegant way to deal with this than add > subscriber to a 'summarily discard all' rule? Stop it earlier? may be of interest if you're using Exim. Some mailadmins may prefer a 'discard' over a 'deny'. -- "In matters of grave importance, style, not sincerity, is the vital thing" -- The Importance of Being Earnest From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 31 20:37:23 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 11:37:23 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam from list-owner to own list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dennis Carr wrote: >Seem to be getting this a lot on ffml at here - spam comes from ffml-owner, >but that address is not subscribed, so it bounces, and bombards six people >with rejected spam. Is there a more elegant way to deal with this than add >subscriber to a 'summarily discard all' rule? Adding listname-owner at ... to discard_these_nonmembers actually seems like a pretty good solution to me. The only other thing you might do in Mailman is try some header_filter_rules to block the spam. Of course, blocking it in the MTA ahead of Mailman is the best solution. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rclemings at gmail.com Sun Jan 31 20:44:54 2010 From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 11:44:54 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ouytgoing mail header question... Message-ID: That looks like Exim, in which case I believe the explanation (complex) is here: http://www.exim.org/exim-html-4.50/doc/html/spec_52.html#SECT52.1 rac ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Mark Sapiro > To: Doug Smith , mailman-users at python.org > Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 08:37:27 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Ouytgoing mail header question... > Doug Smith wrote: > > > >When I look at the outgoing mail queue on my server when MailMan is in the > process of sending out one of it's messages, I see something akin to the > following in the header lines. > > > >----------------------------------- > >1NbOfW-0004fm-J9-H > >mailnull 47 12 > > > >1264901526 0 > >-helo_name server.hostname.net > >-host_address 127.0.0.1.41150 > >-host_name localhost > >-interface_address 127.0.0.1.25 > >-ident mailman > >-received_protocol esmtp > >-body_linecount 58 > >-max_received_linelength 120 > >YY recipient at domain1.com > >YY recipient at domain2.com > >NN recipient at domain3.com > >YY recipient at domain4.com > >NY recipient at domain5.com > >----------------------------------- > > > >My question is, what do the Yes and No flags at the start of each > recipient line indicate? > > > This is a question for your MTA. If you are seeing the above as the > output of some command like 'mailq' or similar, consult its manpage or > other documentation. If it is the content of some file, consult the > MTA documentation for the format of that file. > > Just guessing, I'd say that one column of Y and N indicates whether the > message has been delivered to that recipient's MX. I have no guess as > to what the other column means > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > > > From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 31 20:55:09 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 11:55:09 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove default attachments and Greek language support In-Reply-To: <4B65750F.1070004@yahoo.gr> References: <4B65750F.1070004@yahoo.gr> Message-ID: <4B65E01D.8000909@msapiro.net> On 1/31/2010 4:18 AM, ??????? ???????? wrote: > > every time I send an attached file to my mailing list, the users that > receive that e-mail, claim that there appear to be more than one > attached files in the received message. > > Last time I tested it: I attached to the outgoing message 2 files. I > received a message with the 2 attached files, but there had been > attached 2 more files (with names "Part 1.2" and "Part 1.5"). > > 1. Is that possible to configure Mailman NOT TO attach by default extra > files to the message? How should I do that? Ensure that msg_header and msg_footer are empty. See the FAQ at . > 2. I have written the header and footer text of the messages in greek > language. Thus, the text appeared in the received messages displays > something like "αυτό ε". In "Language Options", > there doesn't seem to support Greek language. Are there any > localizations available and how can i install them? There is currently no Greek localization for Mailman. Would you like to help create one? > P.S.: I use Mailman 2.1.12.cp3 See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 31 21:13:56 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 12:13:56 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot see pending message waiting for approval In-Reply-To: <906471.9845.qm@web28408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yao Fololo wrote: > >I just install Mailman on a new server. >The moderator of one of my lists has received a request for approval but when he clicks on the link, there is no message to approve.? Any help? Either there is an old or test or backup installation that is sending the moderator notice (this would be the case if the moderator is getting daily notices about the same message), or possibly someone else (the poster) canceled the post before the moderator got to it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mj at mjw.se Sun Jan 31 22:29:31 2010 From: mj at mjw.se (mattias) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:29:31 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] language Message-ID: <000301caa2bc$79f5be60$d816e255@jonsson2> I run centos How to change to swedish in mailman DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE something