From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  1 01:12:28 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:12:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive nightmare with vhosts
In-Reply-To: <BD9568B2-BA3C-45F8-8A9B-FBCBED052C12@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010013116122800001f3e745c@msapiro>

UGSD wrote:
>
>After not being able to create a list, I had another issue (not seen in 2.1.7), where the alias file was created in the form of 
>
>lists.domain1.net=list-name-unsubscribe: "|/path/to/mailman unsubscribe lists.domain1.net=list-name"
>
>which mailman did not understand and complained that "lists.domain1.net=list-name" not found.


Alias creation works just fine for me with my original 2.1.13 patch at
<http://www.msapiro.net/mm/2.1.13_vhost.patch>. Lists in the
DEFAULT_URL_HOST domain get aliases like:

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Sun Jan 31 12:57:36 2010
mailman:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
etc.

Lists in the virtual domains get aliases like

# STANZA START: test at lists.msapiro.net
# CREATED: Sun Jan 31 12:57:37 2010
lists.msapiro.net=test: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post
test at lists.msapiro.net"
lists.msapiro.net=test-admin: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin
test at lists.msapiro.net"
lists.msapiro.net=test-bounces: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
bounces test at lists.msapiro.net"
etc.

and entries in virtual-mailman like

# STANZA START: test at lists.msapiro.net
# CREATED: Sun Jan 31 12:57:37 2010
test at lists.msapiro.net               lists.msapiro.net=test
test-admin at lists.msapiro.net         lists.msapiro.net=test-admin
test-bounces at lists.msapiro.net       lists.msapiro.net=test-bounces

This is as it should be. The only requirement being that the virtual
domains (lists.msapiro.net in this example) be in the
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS list in mm_cfg.py as in:

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.msapiro.net']



>So i had to use my mod_rewrite trick, modify Mailman/Cgi/pryvate.py
>
[...]
>
>Now i was able to see the private archive table of contents, but none of the links were functional, so clicking on a link pointing to
>
>http://lists.domain1.net/private/list-name at lists.domain1.net/2010-January/thread.html reloads the page, adding another "2010-Janury" in the browser address bar
>
>
>http://lists.domain1.net/private/list-name at lists.domain1.net/2010-January/2010-January/thread.html
>http://lists.domain1.net/private/list-name at lists.domain1.net/2010-January/2010-January/2010-January/thread.html
>
>and so on. Unfortunately i haven't been able to get around this issue yet.


I fixed the archiving for both private and public archives so no
rewriting is involved. private.py does the right thing with my
additional patches. I also patched the GetBaseArchiveURL() method to
include the virtual host directory in the public archive URL.

Finally, I had an issue which almost caused me to give up in disgust.
The original patch adds a _GetURLHost() function to Mailman.Utils.py
which gets the host name from the invoking URL. This got the name from
the SERVER_NAME environment variable which is not the preferred place
and is different from the URL host in my test environment. It should
use HTTP_HOST.

The bottom line for me now is I can take a 2.1.13 base distribution,
patch it with the patch at
<http://www.msapiro.net/mm/2.1.13_vhost.patch> and patch that with the
vhost_extra_patch.txt patch attached to this post, and I think that
list creation and the web interface work. I haven't tested posting
because my testbed uses Exim, but I think it should work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: vhost_extra_patch.txt
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100131/7744d7e9/attachment.txt>

From hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn  Mon Feb  1 02:08:30 2010
From: hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn (Hien HUYNH HUU)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:08:30 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doesn't reset bounce
Message-ID: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A731820EB0BE42C@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>

Dear all,
   I wonder why mailman doesn't reset bounce when member received last message ? I check and see that Mailman just increases bounce but doesn't decrease it.
   Please help me to correct this issue .
   Best regards,
   Huu Hien


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  1 02:26:41 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 17:26:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doesn't reset bounce
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A731820EB0BE42C@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <PC19520100131172641040690ceee3f@msapiro>

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:
>
>   I wonder why mailman doesn't reset bounce when member received last message ? I check and see that Mailman just increases bounce but doesn't decrease it.
>   Please help me to correct this issue .


This should not be a problem. Mailman doesn't reset bounce info
arbitrarily, but if the previous bounce date when a new bounce arrives
is older than bounce_info_stale_after days, the score is reset at that
point.

If you are seeing an actual problem other than an old score, what
specifically is it?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn  Mon Feb  1 03:35:41 2010
From: hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn (Hien HUYNH HUU)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:35:41 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doesn't reset bounce
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100131172641040690ceee3f@msapiro>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A731820EB0BE42C@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<PC19520100131172641040690ceee3f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A731820EB0BE4DF@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>

Yeah,
   I understood how It works . Thank you very much, Mark.
   Best regards,
   Huu Hien
  

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:27 AM
To: Hien HUYNH HUU; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doesn't reset bounce

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:
>
>   I wonder why mailman doesn't reset bounce when member received last message ? I check and see that Mailman just increases bounce but doesn't decrease it.
>   Please help me to correct this issue .


This should not be a problem. Mailman doesn't reset bounce info
arbitrarily, but if the previous bounce date when a new bounce arrives
is older than bounce_info_stale_after days, the score is reset at that
point.

If you are seeing an actual problem other than an old score, what
specifically is it?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kop at meme.com  Mon Feb  1 04:19:47 2010
From: kop at meme.com (Karl O. Pinc)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:19:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3.0 wishlist: Add "posting" into archiver
 (user database and mail sending)
Message-ID: <1264994387.10486.2@mofo>

Hi,

Here's a wishlist item for mailman 3.0.

I've no use for "web forums", but it seems that
they are here to stay and sometimes a requirement.

It occurs to me that if the mailman 3.0 archiver
user interface had a "send mail" feature then
it would, in essence, become a "web forum".
(Especially if the archiver behaves as described
in the todo list and displays all messages
in a thread at once.)
Of course it would need an authentication database
but I presume that's already (for some value
of already) built-in and integrated with the
regular mailing list authentication database.

If people want "forum only" access they'd need
to turn off receipt of all mail in their user
preferences.  It might be nice if there was
a configurable option that set this property
one way or the other by default, as well as
giving a new user the option to set the 
"send me mail" flag when using the web interface
to sign on to a list.

Regards,

Karl <kop at meme.com>
Free Software:  "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
                 -- Robert A. Heinlein


From kop at meme.com  Mon Feb  1 05:05:33 2010
From: kop at meme.com (Karl O. Pinc)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:05:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3.0 wishlist: imap protocol support
Message-ID: <1264997133.17043.0@mofo>

Hello,

As long as I'm requesting features, it'd be nice if
the mailman archive was able to support access via
the imap protocol.

I would think it would make more sense to structure
the archive in such a way that any old imap server could
be used rather than build imap protocol support into
mailman itself, but that's not for me to say.

Regards,


Karl <kop at meme.com>
Free Software:  "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
                 -- Robert A. Heinlein


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon Feb  1 13:42:18 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:42:18 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug: couldn't subscribe to dev list by simply
	replying
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002011438280.14214@data.home>

Hi,

Figured this would be the best place to report this.

I just tried again to subscribe to the developers list and discovered that 
you couldn't confirm your subscription just by replying.

The message text implies that the confirmation key should be in the 
subject, but the confirmation key was in the From address of the 
confirmation message (see below).  Replying simply send me a message 
telling me that the subject line was being ignored.  It seems the confirm 
code was also ignored.

Not sure how it's meant to work but it's the first time I've had to resort 
to clicking on the URL.

Oh and I notice that this is Mailman 2.1.12. :)

Geoff.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 13:04:18 +0100
From:
     mailman-developers-confirm+519716b18b6d4ddef39fd87d0e5abdf8c5ced755 at python.o
     rg
To: geoff at quitelikely.com
Subject: Your confirmation is required to join the Mailman-Developers mailing
     list

Mailing list subscription confirmation notice for mailing list
Mailman-Developers

We have received a request from geoff at quitelikely.com for subscription
of your email address, "geoff at quitelikely.com", to the
mailman-developers at python.org mailing list.  To confirm that you want
to be added to this mailing list, simply reply to this message,
keeping the Subject: header intact.  Or visit this web page:

     http://mail.python.org/mailman/confirm/mailman-developers/519716b18b6d4ddef39fd87d0e5abdf8c5ced755


Or include the following line -- and only the following line -- in a
message to mailman-developers-request at python.org:

     confirm 519716b18b6d4ddef39fd87d0e5abdf8c5ced755

Note that simply sending a `reply' to this message should work from
most mail readers, since that usually leaves the Subject: line in the
right form (additional "Re:" text in the Subject: is okay).

If you do not wish to be subscribed to this list, please simply
disregard this message.  If you think you are being maliciously
subscribed to the list, or have any other questions, send them to
mailman-developers-owner at python.org.

From wcook at mycoachonline.com  Mon Feb  1 13:30:11 2010
From: wcook at mycoachonline.com (Wayne Cook)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 06:30:11 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List "Locked Up"...kind of
Message-ID: <3B4F5736-F686-4A00-A6CA-4CFD9ABA2A3A@mycoachonline.com>

I have mailman on OSX 10.4.11 server and I set up a mailing list with  
4 or 5 addresses in it to test stuff out.  All seemed to work fine  
with adding, deleteing, sending mail and such so I imported about 50  
addresses into the list from a different mail programs (via a csv file).

Everything still seemed to work fine so I imported about 30,000 emails  
and stuff got flakey.

The email lists won't send mail any more, and they won't show up in  
the OSX Server Admin but they do show up using the web interface.

When I go to Server Admin and click the mail tab, the enable mailing  
lists check box is unchecked and in the bottom left of the window (to  
the left of the "overview | logs | connections | maintenance |  
settings" menu, I have the spinnie wheel that something is happening  
and that's been going on for about 12 hours.

Can anyone give me ideas on how to get things so I can see them  
again?  The activity monitor says servermgrd is using between 98 to  
100% of the cpu.  I kill this process or restart the machine and  
everything stays the same.

Thanks
Wayne



From carloswill at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 14:33:41 2010
From: carloswill at gmail.com (Carlos Williams)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:33:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password // URL in Notification Emails
Message-ID: <d80f793f1002010533s1c261b71l5f4530a4d5cda771@mail.gmail.com>

Every month I get an email from MailMan list's I am currently
subscribed to & in this email there is a field that shows as follows:

List                                     Password // URL
----                                     --------
staff at mydomain.tld                      vipidimi
https://mail.mydomain.tld/mailman/options/ctia/carlos%40mydomain.tld

Can someone tell me if there is a way to disable the plain text email
of passwords via the MailMan system? I don't think those passwords are
for 'Administrative' login sessions of lists so I really don't
understand their purpose. Can anyone tell me what they are used for
and how can I disable them from the reminder email?

Thanks for any help!

From per.ottosson at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 07:13:24 2010
From: per.ottosson at gmail.com (Per-Erik Ottosson)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:13:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] closing account
Message-ID: <86fe77011001312213t68fefc7ar81da644f6dd79f3e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I have for quite a long time ago, closing an account. Account name was
nallesresa.se. I still get mail about how to renew your password, the list
is not maintained. Can you remove it completely.

Thank you in advance

Per-Erik

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Mon Feb  1 16:14:56 2010
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:14:56 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] closing account
In-Reply-To: <86fe77011001312213t68fefc7ar81da644f6dd79f3e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86fe77011001312213t68fefc7ar81da644f6dd79f3e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.64.1002010908400.18649@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Per-Erik Ottosson wrote:

> Hi,
> I have for quite a long time ago, closing an account. Account name was
> nallesresa.se. I still get mail about how to renew your password, the list
> is not maintained. Can you remove it completely.

You need to contact the administrators of the system that is sending you 
these messages. This list is for discussion by Mailman administrators of 
how to use Mailman. It is not a support list specific to the server that 
is sending you the messages nor do we have any access to that site.

-- Larry Stone
    lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  1 17:00:12 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:00:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug: couldn't subscribe to dev list by
	simplyreplying
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002011438280.14214@data.home>
Message-ID: <PC195201002010800120593d3a1e81d@msapiro>

Geoff Shang wrote:
>
>I just tried again to subscribe to the developers list and discovered that 
>you couldn't confirm your subscription just by replying.
>
>The message text implies that the confirmation key should be in the 
>subject, but the confirmation key was in the From address of the 
>confirmation message (see below).  Replying simply send me a message 
>telling me that the subject line was being ignored.  It seems the confirm 
>code was also ignored.
>
>Not sure how it's meant to work but it's the first time I've had to resort 
>to clicking on the URL.


What is supposed to happen is you reply; your MUA sends a reply to

mailman-developers-confirm+519716b18b6d4ddef39fd87d0e5abdf8c5ced755 at python.org

This is received and posted to the command queue where it is processed
by CommandRunner which parses the token from the To: address and
invokes cmd_confirm to do the confirmation.

There are two ways this works in general. If the site's
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS setting is No (the default) the confirmation is
From: listname-request at ... with Subject: confirm <token>, and the
reply is to the listname-request at ... address with the confirm command
possibly preceded by Re: in the Subject:. This works.

If the site's VERP_CONFIRMATIONS setting is Yes as it is at python.org,
the confirmation is From: listname-confirm+<token>@... with Subject:
Your confirmation is required to join the listname mailing list, and
the reply is to listname-confirm+<token>@... and this should work too.

If you received a reply that your message Subject was ignored, either
the To: address didn't match VERP_CONFIRM_REGEXP or the reply wasn't
sent to the -confirm address, or the site's MTA doesn't correctly
deliver mail addressed to listname-confirm+<token>@... . I don't think
it's the third alternative in this case.

If the above doesn't explain what went wrong, post the message you
received in reply to your reply.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  1 17:02:21 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:02:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] language
In-Reply-To: <000301caa2bc$79f5be60$d816e255@jonsson2>
Message-ID: <PC195201002010802210218d3a1e6af@msapiro>

mattias wrote:

>I run centos
>How to change to swedish in mailman
>DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE something


DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'sv'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  1 17:13:27 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:13:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List "Locked Up"...kind of
In-Reply-To: <3B4F5736-F686-4A00-A6CA-4CFD9ABA2A3A@mycoachonline.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100201081327045316b567a0@msapiro>

Wayne Cook wrote:
>
>Everything still seemed to work fine so I imported about 30,000 emails  
>and stuff got flakey.


Your server is probably busy trying to deliver the 30,000 messages.

Beyond that, this is an Apple OS X Server Mailman (and/or Postfix?)
question and needs to be answered by someone familiar with that. I
know there are people on this list who run Mailman from source on Mac
OS X. I don't know if there is anyone running the OS X server Mailman
who could help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  1 17:23:29 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:23:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password // URL in Notification Emails
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f1002010533s1c261b71l5f4530a4d5cda771@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002010823290000b2fe175d@msapiro>

Carlos Williams wrote:

>Every month I get an email from MailMan list's I am currently
>subscribed to & in this email there is a field that shows as follows:
>
>List                                     Password // URL
>----                                     --------
>staff at mydomain.tld                      vipidimi
>https://mail.mydomain.tld/mailman/options/ctia/carlos%40mydomain.tld
>
>Can someone tell me if there is a way to disable the plain text email
>of passwords via the MailMan system? I don't think those passwords are
>for 'Administrative' login sessions of lists so I really don't
>understand their purpose. Can anyone tell me what they are used for
>and how can I disable them from the reminder email?


These are reminders to the list members of their list member passwords.
This is the password that a list member can use to authenticate for
her own user options page (at the given URL) and for private archive
access and for access to the list roster if it is available to list
members.

The admin can use the list admin password for this, but if the admin is
a list member, the list membership has its own password which is not
the admin password.

The reminder email can be disabled in three ways.

The user can disable her individual reminder on her user options page.

The list admin can disable all monthly reminders for the list
regardless of user settings by setting General Options ->
send_reminders to No.

The site admin can disable monthly reminders for all lists by removing
cron/mailpasswds from Mailman's crontab.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil  Mon Feb  1 17:16:47 2010
From: Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil (Hicks, Robert CTR)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:16:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTA='Manual'
Message-ID: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1045C2997@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>

I know that Exim and Mailman play nicely. Is there any problem with my setting the MTA value to manual, doing a genaliases and adding the to my aliases file to handle the aliases? Sounds silly but I would like to see the aliases and not have that be automagically hidden behind the scenes.

-- 
Bob


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  1 18:00:15 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:00:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTA='Manual'
In-Reply-To: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1045C2997@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <PC195201002010900150046b2fe177d@msapiro>

Hicks, Robert CTR wrote:

>I know that Exim and Mailman play nicely. Is there any problem with my setting the MTA value to manual, doing a genaliases and adding the to my aliases file to handle the aliases? Sounds silly but I would like to see the aliases and not have that be automagically hidden behind the scenes.


If you wish to remove the Mailman router and transport from your Exin
config and use alaises instead, you can.

Also see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/joA9> for ways to automate
alias generation for Sendmail which should work for Exim too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From underground.sd at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 20:38:28 2010
From: underground.sd at gmail.com (UGSD)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:38:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive nightmare with vhosts
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010013116122800001f3e745c@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010013116122800001f3e745c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <48442125-3CD0-4ACF-99BA-BD5BD220CF40@gmail.com>

Mark,

> I fixed the archiving for both private and public archives so no
> rewriting is involved. private.py does the right thing with my
> additional patches. I also patched the GetBaseArchiveURL() method to
> include the virtual host directory in the public archive URL.
> 
> Finally, I had an issue which almost caused me to give up in disgust.
> The original patch adds a _GetURLHost() function to Mailman.Utils.py
> which gets the host name from the invoking URL. This got the name from
> the SERVER_NAME environment variable which is not the preferred place
> and is different from the URL host in my test environment. It should
> use HTTP_HOST.
> 
> The bottom line for me now is I can take a 2.1.13 base distribution,
> patch it with the patch at
> <http://www.msapiro.net/mm/2.1.13_vhost.patch> and patch that with the
> vhost_extra_patch.txt patch attached to this post, and I think that
> list creation and the web interface work. I haven't tested posting
> because my testbed uses Exim, but I think it should work.

Thank you sooo much!  Both of these patches worked perfectly and now i have a working, 
fully virtual mailman installation. This is not something i would've been able to figure out of my own. 
The only thing it complained about is --with-mail-gid. My previous installation attempts worked fine with 
--with-mail-gid=list, but this time it complained that it needs --with-mail-gid=nobody, but that was an easy fix.

Thanks again, Mark. I really appreciate your help and I am sure that many other users would 
benefit greatly from these 2 patches.

- Igor

From Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil  Mon Feb  1 21:18:51 2010
From: Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil (Hicks, Robert CTR)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:18:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] wrapper issue
Message-ID: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1045C2D8D@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>

I changed mailman to use an aliases file (/etc/mail/mailman-aliases) which is owned by root:mailman. 

I get the following, which I didn't get when the aliases where being managed by Exim itself.

====
Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "exim".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure, providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=exim'.
====

So I have two options. The tweak, and the re-configure. What is the tweak? Or is it better to do the re-configure and if I do that does that "wipe" out anything in my current system?

Alternatively, I can turn the Exim support back on but I was getting this error from one of my groups:

====
Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

      Subject:	Test message only
      Sent:	2/1/2010 9:40 AM

The following recipient(s) cannot be reached:

      email at address on 2/1/2010 9:42 AM
            The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this message was sent to.  Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient directly to find out the correct address.
            <smtp-host #5.1.1 smtp;>
====

The email was changed but the address is valid.

Bob

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  1 21:49:12 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:49:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] wrapper issue
In-Reply-To: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1045C2D8D@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <PC195201002011249120687cf91c5fb@msapiro>

Hicks, Robert CTR wrote:

>I changed mailman to use an aliases file (/etc/mail/mailman-aliases) which is owned by root:mailman. 
>
>I get the following, which I didn't get when the aliases where being managed by Exim itself.
>
>====
>Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "exim".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure, providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=exim'.
>====


The difference is you used to deliver mail to Mailman via an Exim
router and transport for Mailman. BTW, this was not delivery based on
Exim managed aliases. It was programmatic delivery based on the
existence of a list.

Your Exim Mailman transport definition contained user= and group=
directives defining the user and group that Exim should use when
invoking the wrapper. In particular, this group was 'mailman'.

You now are delivering via aliases. Probably you have a
"system_aliases" router with among other things has a line like

pipe_transport = address_pipe

which invokes the address_pipe transport for all aliases including
Mailman's which deliver to a pipe.


>So I have two options. The tweak, and the re-configure. What is the tweak? Or is it better to do the re-configure and if I do that does that "wipe" out anything in my current system?


The tweak option is to add a

  group = mailman

directive to either the system_aliases router or the address_pipe
transport.

The configure option if you installed from source is to run ./configure
with the same options as before except adding (or changing)
--with-mail-gid=exim and then run make install.

If you installed a package, you need to consult your package
documentation for the way to change this if it is possible.

No. reconfiguring and installing shouldn't affect your current
installation.


>Alternatively, I can turn the Exim support back on but I was getting this error from one of my groups:


Going back to your original Exim configuration is IMO the best option.


>====
>Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.
>
>      Subject:	Test message only
>      Sent:	2/1/2010 9:40 AM
>
>The following recipient(s) cannot be reached:
>
>      email at address on 2/1/2010 9:42 AM
>            The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this message was sent to.  Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient directly to find out the correct address.
>            <smtp-host #5.1.1 smtp;>
>====
>
>The email was changed but the address is valid.


Now we're getting somewhere. Was this a message to a list; i.e. is
email at address the address of a Mailman list, or was this a message
from Mailman to someone?

If this was not a post to a list, Neither the Exim Mailman router and
transport nor Mailman aliases have anything to do with it.

Is the 'address' domain that of your mailman server? is the 'email'
user the name of a Mailman list?

Give us some information and we'll help you solve this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon Feb  1 21:53:46 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:53:46 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug: couldn't subscribe to dev list by
 simplyreplying
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002010800120593d3a1e81d@msapiro>
References: <PC195201002010800120593d3a1e81d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002012244350.14214@data.home>

On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> There are two ways this works in general. If the site's
> VERP_CONFIRMATIONS setting is No (the default) the confirmation is
> From: listname-request at ... with Subject: confirm <token>, and the
> reply is to the listname-request at ... address with the confirm command
> possibly preceded by Re: in the Subject:. This works.

This is what I've seen in the past.

> If the site's VERP_CONFIRMATIONS setting is Yes as it is at python.org,
> the confirmation is From: listname-confirm+<token>@... with Subject:
> Your confirmation is required to join the listname mailing list, and
> the reply is to listname-confirm+<token>@... and this should work too.

But it didn't.  I don't remember having problems signing up to this list, 
but that was 4 months ago so I don't really remember.

At any rate, the confirmation message text is incorrect for this 
configuration.

> If you received a reply that your message Subject was ignored, either

Actually, to be precise, it said that it was "unprocessed".

> the To: address didn't match VERP_CONFIRM_REGEXP or the reply wasn't
> sent to the -confirm address, or the site's MTA doesn't correctly
> deliver mail addressed to listname-confirm+<token>@... . I don't think
> it's the third alternative in this case.

Well I still have the message I sent:

Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:30:24 +0200 (IST)
From: Geoff Shang <geoff at QuiteLikely.com>
To: 
mailman-developers-confirm+519716b18b6d4ddef39fd87d0e5abdf8c5ced755 at python.
     org
Subject: Re: Your confirmation is required to join the Mailman-Developers
     mailing list

> If the above doesn't explain what went wrong, post the message you
> received in reply to your reply.

Sorry, I don't still have it.  But I guess I could generate one.

At any rate, it's not a good advertisment.

Geoff.


From Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil  Mon Feb  1 22:07:45 2010
From: Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil (Hicks, Robert CTR)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:07:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] wrapper issue
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002011249120687cf91c5fb@msapiro>
References: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1045C2D8D@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
	<PC195201002011249120687cf91c5fb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1045C2E2A@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>

-----Original Message-----

>====
>Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.
>
>      Subject:	Test message only
>      Sent:	2/1/2010 9:40 AM
>
>The following recipient(s) cannot be reached:
>
>      email at address on 2/1/2010 9:42 AM
>            The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this message was sent to.  Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient directly to find out the correct address.
>            <smtp-host #5.1.1 smtp;>
>====
>
>The email was changed but the address is valid.


>Now we're getting somewhere. Was this a message to a list; i.e. is
>email at address the address of a Mailman list, or was this a message
>from Mailman to someone?

This was a test message from me to a list that is in mailman. So it was actually
to list-name at address-domain.mil. Both the list-name and address-domain are correct in the email. I have sent the actual message to you Mark separately to see if that helps at all.

>If this was not a post to a list, Neither the Exim Mailman router and
>transport nor Mailman aliases have anything to do with it.

>Is the 'address' domain that of your mailman server? 

Yes... can successfully send test mail to other lists.

>is the 'email' user the name of a Mailman list?

I am not sure what you mean by this? I sent it with my personal email account and I am a member of that list with that address and I sent to the list name address.

>Give us some information and we'll help you solve this.

Anything you need.  :-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  1 23:24:26 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:24:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] wrapper issue
In-Reply-To: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1045C2E2A@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <PC195201002011424260625af7887cb@msapiro>

Hicks, Robert CTR wrote:
>
>>====
>>Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.
>>
>>      Subject:	Test message only
>>      Sent:	2/1/2010 9:40 AM
>>
>>The following recipient(s) cannot be reached:
>>
>>      email at address on 2/1/2010 9:42 AM
>>            The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this message was sent to.  Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient directly to find out the correct address.
>>            <smtp-host #5.1.1 smtp;>
>>====
>>
>>The email was changed but the address is valid.
>
>
>>Now we're getting somewhere. Was this a message to a list; i.e. is
>>email at address the address of a Mailman list, or was this a message
>>from Mailman to someone?
>
>This was a test message from me to a list that is in mailman. So it was actually
>to list-name at address-domain.mil. Both the list-name and address-domain are correct in the email. I have sent the actual message to you Mark separately to see if that helps at all.


The list-name in the message you sent me ends in -admin. This is the
problem.


Your Mailman router in Exim doesn't work with list names that end with
'-admin' or probably any of the other suffixes '-bounces', '-confirm',
'-join', '-leave', '-owner', '-request', '-subscribe' or
'-unsubscribe'.

Does the router definition look like this:

mailman_router:
  driver = accept
  domains = +mm_domains
  require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
  local_part_suffix_optional
  local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
                      -confirm : -confirm+* : \
                      -join : -leave : \
                      -subscribe : -unsubscribe : \
                      -owner : -request : -admin
  transport = mailman_transport


If so, i think you can just delete the " : -admin" from the next to
last line as this suffix is a deprecated synonym for the -bounces
address and isn't actually used in Mailman 2.1.x.

That should solve the problem for lists named *-admin, but not the
others.

I'm not an Exim wizard, but I'll try to come up with a more robust
router definition.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  1 23:42:55 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:42:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug: couldn't subscribe to dev list
	bysimplyreplying
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002012244350.14214@data.home>
Message-ID: <PC1952010020114425501090ec0c5e4@msapiro>

Geoff Shang wrote:

>On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> If the site's VERP_CONFIRMATIONS setting is Yes as it is at python.org,
>> the confirmation is From: listname-confirm+<token>@... with Subject:
>> Your confirmation is required to join the listname mailing list, and
>> the reply is to listname-confirm+<token>@... and this should work too.
>
>But it didn't.  I don't remember having problems signing up to this list, 
>but that was 4 months ago so I don't really remember.


It worked for me when I tried it just now.


>At any rate, the confirmation message text is incorrect for this 
>configuration.


Granted. We can look at changing that for MM 3.


>> If you received a reply that your message Subject was ignored, either
>
>Actually, to be precise, it said that it was "unprocessed".


Which says that the message was processed by cmd_request and not by
cmd_confirm. I don't know how that could have happened if you actually
sent it to mailman-developers-confirm+<token>@python.org, and it
didn't happen when I just tried it.


>> the To: address didn't match VERP_CONFIRM_REGEXP or the reply wasn't
>> sent to the -confirm address, or the site's MTA doesn't correctly
>> deliver mail addressed to listname-confirm+<token>@... . I don't think
>> it's the third alternative in this case.
>
>Well I still have the message I sent:
>
>Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:30:24 +0200 (IST)
>From: Geoff Shang <geoff at QuiteLikely.com>
>To: 
>mailman-developers-confirm+519716b18b6d4ddef39fd87d0e5abdf8c5ced755 at python.
>     org
>Subject: Re: Your confirmation is required to join the Mailman-Developers
>     mailing list
>
>> If the above doesn't explain what went wrong, post the message you
>> received in reply to your reply.
>
>Sorry, I don't still have it.  But I guess I could generate one.
>
>At any rate, it's not a good advertisment.


I just tried it twice with different subscribed addresses, once with a
web generated request and once with a request mailed to
mailman-developers-subscribe at python.org.

In both cases, I received a confirmation email like the one you
received and just pressed reply and send and both confirmations were
accepted and resulted in a list welcome message

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue Feb  2 00:25:20 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 23:25:20 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] wrapper issue
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002011424260625af7887cb@msapiro>
References: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1045C2E2A@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
	<PC195201002011424260625af7887cb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20100201232517.GD3079@amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 02:24:26PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> The list-name in the message you sent me ends in -admin. This is the
> problem.

I came up with a work-around for this, once, but on a box I've since
decommissioned.

> Your Mailman router in Exim doesn't work with list names that end with
> '-admin' or probably any of the other suffixes '-bounces', '-confirm',
> '-join', '-leave', '-owner', '-request', '-subscribe' or
> '-unsubscribe'.

Indeed, that's the case with a router like that, below

> Does the router definition look like this:
> 
> mailman_router:
>   driver = accept
>   domains = +mm_domains
>   require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
>   local_part_suffix_optional
>   local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
>                       -confirm : -confirm+* : \
>                       -join : -leave : \
>                       -subscribe : -unsubscribe : \
>                       -owner : -request : -admin
>   transport = mailman_transport

>From memory, I think 'my' workaround may have involved adding a
specific router to handle the suffices, when they appear in the
local_part.

It may have been something like:

    local_parts = foo-admin : baa-confim

It may be worth testing something along the lines of

    local_parts = \N^.*-(admin|bounces|confirm|join|leave|owner|request|subscribe|unsubscribe)$\N

It might be useful to limit the domains a bit more that
+mm_domains, with such a list.

(yes, that is untested -- see chapters 8 and 11 of the Exim spec).

However I did it, it was most in-elegant, and took advantage of 
"the order of routers matters, in Exim".

Having got it working, I remember 'we' decided that that list was
surplus to our demands. Hohum.

> If so, i think you can just delete the " : -admin" from the next to
> last line as this suffix is a deprecated synonym for the -bounces
> address and isn't actually used in Mailman 2.1.x.

that's another (nice and easy) way ;)

-- 
``The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism
  by those who do not have it.'' (George Bernard Shaw)

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  2 00:33:06 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:33:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] wrapper issue
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002011424260625af7887cb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1952010020115330605152e8bc649@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>The list-name in the message you sent me ends in -admin. This is the
>problem.
>
>
>Your Mailman router in Exim doesn't work with list names that end with
>'-admin' or probably any of the other suffixes '-bounces', '-confirm',
>'-join', '-leave', '-owner', '-request', '-subscribe' or
>'-unsubscribe'.
>
>Does the router definition look like this:
>
>mailman_router:
>  driver = accept
>  domains = +mm_domains
>  require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
>  local_part_suffix_optional
>  local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
>                      -confirm : -confirm+* : \
>                      -join : -leave : \
>                      -subscribe : -unsubscribe : \
>                      -owner : -request : -admin
>  transport = mailman_transport
>
>
>If so, i think you can just delete the " : -admin" from the next to
>last line as this suffix is a deprecated synonym for the -bounces
>address and isn't actually used in Mailman 2.1.x.
>
>That should solve the problem for lists named *-admin, but not the
>others.
>
>I'm not an Exim wizard, but I'll try to come up with a more robust
>router definition.


The following is not too elegant, but you can just add a second router
so you have two as follows (order is important):

mailman_router:
  driver = accept
  domains = +mm_domains
  require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
  local_part_suffix_optional
  local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
                      -confirm : -confirm+* : \
                      -join : -leave : \
                      -subscribe : -unsubscribe : \
                      -owner : -request : -admin
  transport = mailman_transport

mailman__backup_router:
  driver = accept
  domains = +mm_domains
  require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
  transport = mailman_transport

The first router will be invoked for addresses like 'list',
'list-admin', 'list-bounces', etc where 'list' is a valid list name.

Should there be a list with a name like 'xxx-admin', as long as there
also is not a list named 'xxx', the first router will fail to match on
list posts and the second router will match. Addresses like
'xxx-admin-bounces' etc. (even 'xxx-admin-admin') will match the first
router.

The only restriction is you can't have two lists, one named 'xxx' and
another named 'xxx-admin' or 'xxx-bounces', etc., but that's a problem
with other delivery methods too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rmiga at rochester.rr.com  Mon Feb  1 18:07:20 2010
From: rmiga at rochester.rr.com (RhondaRR)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:07:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help,
	I keep getting notices from a nonexisting group via mailman
Message-ID: <216DB9AD-4BBF-4A65-BB2C-905784C6D67F@rochester.rr.com>

The following is the message I keep getting. When I go to unsubscribe, it says that it is nonexistant.  Can you help?  How do I stop receiving this message?

Mailing list membership??? However, I can't find a way to unsubscribe. Betterwaypress is no longer in existance.  Can you help?

	From: 	listserver2-owner at betterwaypress.com
	Subject: 	betterwaypress.com mailing list memberships reminder
my emails to the above keep bouncing back as "mail delivery failure"

Thank you.
rmiga at rochester.rr.com

This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your
betterwaypress.com mailing list memberships.  It includes your
subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a
list.

You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or
configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery
or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such
changes.  For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of
the list (for example, listserver2-request at betterwaypress.com)
containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email
message will be sent to you with instructions.

If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to
listserver2-owner at betterwaypress.com.  Thanks!

Passwords for rmiga at rochester.rr.com:

List                                     Password // URL
----                                     --------  
listserver2 at betterwaypress.com           tirakaib  
http://betterwaypress.com/mailman/options/listserver2_betterwaypress.com/rmiga%40rochester.rr.com


Rhonda Miga
Something Great Is Going To Happen Today, I Can't Wait To See What It Is. ~Brook Noel

Make Today Matter
www.maketodaymatter.net




From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  2 16:59:46 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:59:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help,
	I keep getting notices from a nonexisting group via mailman
In-Reply-To: <216DB9AD-4BBF-4A65-BB2C-905784C6D67F@rochester.rr.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002020759460890ddc0b8a8@msapiro>

RhondaRR wrote:

>The following is the message I keep getting. When I go to unsubscribe, it says that it is nonexistant.  Can you help?  How do I stop receiving this message?

Not directly, but ...


>Mailing list membership??? However, I can't find a way to unsubscribe. Betterwaypress is no longer in existance.  Can you help?


Betterwaypress may no longer be in existence, but the
betterwaypress.com domain registration is still valid through
21-Dec-2010. It appears to be currently hosted at
lunarmania.com/lunarpages.com.

There is a mailman installation at the current
http://betterwaypress.com/mailman/listinfo and also at
http://lunarmania.com/mailman/listinfo, but as you have discovered
there appears to be no
http://betterwaypress.com/mailman/listinfo/listserver2_betterwaypress.com
list.


There are a few possibilities.

betterwaypress.com could have been previously hosted elswhere and there
could still be a listserver2_betterwaypress.com list on that other
server. You need to look at the Received: headers in the password
reminder email you received and find out what server originated it.

The other possibility is the current Mailman installation at
http://betterwaypress.com/mailman/listinfo is broken and is still
sending reminders for the non-existent list.

Either way, you have to contact the operators of the server that is
sending you these notices and you can find that server in the
Received: headers of the notice. If you need help with this, you can
forward the entire notice to me as an attachment so it includes the
full headers, and I can tell you where it came from.

The following is the registrant of the BETTERWAYPRESS.COM domain

   Administrative Contact:
      Moran, Linda              stayathomegeek at gmail.com
      Betterway Press
      504 Darby Court
      Ridgewood, NJ 07450
      US
      2013219379

and this is for lunarpages.com

 Administrative Contact:
    Web Hosting, Lunarpages  domains at lunarpages.com
    1360 N Hancock St.
    Anaheim, CA 92807
    US
    +1.7145218150    Fax: +1.7145218195

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Tue Feb  2 19:22:40 2010
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:22:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3.0 wishlist: imap protocol support
In-Reply-To: <1264997133.17043.0@mofo>
References: <1264997133.17043.0@mofo>
Message-ID: <20100202102240.2843295c@heresy.wooz.org>

On Jan 31, 2010, at 10:05 PM, Karl O. Pinc wrote:

>As long as I'm requesting features, it'd be nice if
>the mailman archive was able to support access via
>the imap protocol.

Yes, that's something I definitely want to do.

>I would think it would make more sense to structure
>the archive in such a way that any old imap server could
>be used rather than build imap protocol support into
>mailman itself, but that's not for me to say.

There's no way I'm going to build (or maintain!) an imap server for Mailman.
Although details should be discussed on the mailman-developers list, my plan
is to provide something like the current archiver interface to allow Mailman
to 'send' messages to some service that would process the messages for a
particular imap server.  For example, there might be an implementation of that
interface for dovecot via maildir, or for whatever Twisted's imap server
wants.

The tricky part IMO is access control.  For example, a list's imap folder
should generally be world readable, except for private mailing lists, but only
list and site admin should have write access to the folder.

I'd also like to support a use case where list moderation could be handled
through the imap interface.  E.g. instead of a web page, a moderator could
approve or discard messages just by moving them between imap folders for the
list.

-Barry
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 836 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100202/a8edb422/attachment.pgp>

From b19141 at anl.gov  Tue Feb  2 20:19:33 2010
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue,  2 Feb 2010 13:19:33 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible Bug in 2.1.13 sync_members
Message-ID: <20100202191934.22523175E9@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

I think I may have uncovered a bug in Mailman 2.1.13.  I have not
completed my research.  I have a script that refreshes the subscriber
list via:

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/sync_members -w=no -g=no -d=no -a=no \
     -f /etc/mailman/generated_lists/LISTNAME LISTNAME

where

     /etc/mailman/generated_lists/LISTNAME

is a file that contains a possibly updated mailing list.  In that file
there is a line:

     ssmith at example.com        (XYZ, 012345, Smith, S.A. (Sam))

and after I run the sync_members, every line below this one is
ignored; the e-mail addresses in those lines are unsubscribed from
the list.  This has happened with two lists since I installed
Mailman 2.1.13 (replacing 2.1.11 - I never installed 2.1.12 in
production).  The third list that contains this e-mail address has
a different format:

     ssmith at example.com        (Smith, S.A. (Sam)      :012345)

and that list has no problems.  I have not yet checked for changes in
the sync_members source from 2.1.11 to 2.1.12 to 2.1.13.

I am running on Ubuntu dapper with packages I built from the SourceForge
source.  The only patches are

     1) one from Ubuntu to place files in the proper directories

     2) one from Mark Sapiro to allow multiple owner addresses on
             /usr/sbin/newlist

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 240, Room 5.B.8             Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Tue Feb  2 23:57:39 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 00:57:39 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a list from one domain to another
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002030051350.14214@data.home>

Hello,

I realise this is probably a FAQ, but I couldn't find anything specificly 
about this in the FAQ.

I need to move a list from one domain to another.  The domains are both 
hosted on the same machine so there's no need to *physically* move 
anything.

I figure I don't need to worry about the multiple domain restrictions, as 
I don't expect there to be name clashes (I admin all the lists and the 
server).

I figure I have to change the host in the list configuration, and also add 
the new domain to mm_cfg.py.  Apart from running bin/fix_url.py, do I need 
to do anything else?  Can I run gen_aliases to fix the aliases (using 
Postfix) or is it better to change them by hand?

Cheers,
Geoff.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  3 00:03:26 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:03:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible Bug in 2.1.13 sync_members
In-Reply-To: <20100202191934.22523175E9@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1952010020215032606870e8516c9@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>I think I may have uncovered a bug in Mailman 2.1.13.  I have not
>completed my research.  I have a script that refreshes the subscriber
>list via:
>
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/sync_members -w=no -g=no -d=no -a=no \
>     -f /etc/mailman/generated_lists/LISTNAME LISTNAME
>
>where
>
>     /etc/mailman/generated_lists/LISTNAME
>
>is a file that contains a possibly updated mailing list.  In that file
>there is a line:
>
>     ssmith at example.com        (XYZ, 012345, Smith, S.A. (Sam))
>
>and after I run the sync_members, every line below this one is
>ignored; the e-mail addresses in those lines are unsubscribed from
>the list.  This has happened with two lists since I installed
>Mailman 2.1.13 (replacing 2.1.11 - I never installed 2.1.12 in
>production).  The third list that contains this e-mail address has
>a different format:
>
>     ssmith at example.com        (Smith, S.A. (Sam)      :012345)
>
>and that list has no problems.  I have not yet checked for changes in
>the sync_members source from 2.1.11 to 2.1.12 to 2.1.13.


There are no changes in sync_members. What has changed is in 2.1.11,
Mailman used its own email package (version 2.5.8) installed in
Mailman's pythonlib directory. Beginning with 2.1.12, Mailman uses the
email package of the installed Python which depends on version.

The difference is almost certainly in email.Utils.getaddresses() which
is used to parse the lines of the input into 'address' and 'display
name + comment' parts.

I think the problem is that the addresses

ssmith at example.com        (XYZ, 012345, Smith, S.A. (Sam))

and

ssmith at example.com        (Smith, S.A. (Sam)      :012345)

contain comments within comments and email.Utils.parseaddr() used by
email.Utils.getaddresses() can be confused by this. However, email
4.0.1 which is in most recent Python versions parses those into

name: 'XYZ, 012345, Smith, S.A. Sam', address: 'ssmith at example.com'

and

name: 'Smith, S.A. Sam      :012345', address: 'ssmith at example.com'

respectively, so that should be OK. Also email 3.0+ from python 2.4.2
gives the same result.

In any case, I am surprised at the result. If sync_members finds any
member addresses in the input file that appear invalid, it reports
these and quits before doing anything to the list, and if it throws an
exception while updating the list, it quits without saving the updated
list.

What's in Mailman's error log? What's in the output from sync_members?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  3 01:36:38 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:36:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a list from one domain to another
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002030051350.14214@data.home>
Message-ID: <PC195201002021636380484d4a4214a@msapiro>

Geoff Shang wrote:
>
>I realise this is probably a FAQ, but I couldn't find anything specificly 
>about this in the FAQ.
>
>I need to move a list from one domain to another.  The domains are both 
>hosted on the same machine so there's no need to *physically* move 
>anything.
>
>I figure I don't need to worry about the multiple domain restrictions, as 
>I don't expect there to be name clashes (I admin all the lists and the 
>server).
>
>I figure I have to change the host in the list configuration, and also add 
>the new domain to mm_cfg.py.  Apart from running bin/fix_url.py, do I need 
>to do anything else?  Can I run gen_aliases to fix the aliases (using 
>Postfix) or is it better to change them by hand?


You need

add_virtualhost('new.web.domain', 'new.email.domain')

in mm_cfg.py if it's not already there

Then you need to run

 bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname -u new.web.domain

That moves the list.

For Postfix, it depends on whether new.web.domain is virtual or local
and likewise the old domain.

If both old and new domains are local, you don't need to do anything
more.

If either old or new domain is virtual:
    if new domain is virtual:
        make sure new.email.domain is in POSTFIX_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
            in mm_cfg.py
        if you don't already have data/virtual-mailman in Postfix's
                virtual_alias_maps:
            add it
        if you don't already have new.mail.domain in Postfix's
                virtual_alias_domains:
            add it
    run bin/genaliases

(the above is intended to be Pythonic pseudo code)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Wed Feb  3 11:40:23 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:40:23 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a list from one domain to another
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002021636380484d4a4214a@msapiro>
References: <PC195201002021636380484d4a4214a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002031238060.14214@data.home>

On Tue, 2 Feb 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Geoff Shang wrote:
>>
>> I need to move a list from one domain to another. ...

Thanks for this Mark, it's exactly what I needed and went off without a 
hitch.

I also put the old list address in as an acceptable alias and put a 
forward into Postfix' virtual table and now both addresses work fine.

Thanks again,
Geoff.


From wyldfury at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 11:50:11 2010
From: wyldfury at gmail.com (Guy)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:50:11 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.13 + vhost patches on multiple hosts
Message-ID: <4a0444211002030250v7ad639cx596b7edef62d2a4e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I've patched 2.1.13 source with
http://www.msapiro.net/mm/2.1.13_vhost.patch, vhost_extra_patch.txt
and a patch for qrunner-slicing. I'm trying to run mailman across
multiple mail servers and web servers. /var/lib/mailman is on a shared
ISCSI mount.
Starting mailman on any given server creates:
/var/lib/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
/var/lib/mailman/locks/master-qrunner
/var/lib/mailman/locks/master-qrunner.<FQDN>.<numeric string>

Looking at the code I can find where the master-qrunner file is
created in mailmanctl, but I'm not sure where the
master-qrunner.<FQDN>.<numeric string> comes from so I didn't want to
try making changes without some idea what's defining those file names.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for what I need to change
for each server to create only one unique lockfile and unique pid
file.

Thanks
Guy

-- 
Don't just do something...sit there!

From etharp at earthlink.net  Wed Feb  3 13:58:22 2010
From: etharp at earthlink.net (ed)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:58:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] where to edit html for /mailman/listinfo
Message-ID: <4B6972EE.10205@earthlink.net>

OK, I still feel dumb and have drank all the available coffee, so now I 
will ask.
Can someone point me to where to find the info on how/where to edit the 
"umbrella" listinfo page? (http://forktechs.com/mailman/listinfo)

Thanks in advance


Edward Tharp


From wyldfury at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:51:53 2010
From: wyldfury at gmail.com (Guy)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:51:53 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.13 + vhost patches on multiple hosts
In-Reply-To: <4a0444211002030250v7ad639cx596b7edef62d2a4e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4a0444211002030250v7ad639cx596b7edef62d2a4e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4a0444211002030551t2d6a7bebk73d390918816cea3@mail.gmail.com>

[UPDATE]
> Looking at the code I can find where the master-qrunner file is
> created in mailmanctl, but I'm not sure where the
> master-qrunner.<FQDN>.<numeric string> comes from so I didn't want to
> try making changes without some idea what's defining those file names.

Made a patch for Defaults.py.in that seems to have resolved that problem.

I've now run into two other problems.

1) The lists have their own vhost in apache lists.domain1.net with
ServerAlias lines for the other domains.
    http://lists.domain1.net/ gets this page:

===
Bug in Mailman version 2.1.13

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
===

I've run check_perms and it reported no problems. There's nothing in
the logs and no errors in the apache logs apart from a missing
favicon.ico file. Any suggestions on what else I should be looking at?


2) I've created a list from command line with
    newlist lists.domain2.net=test

aliases in /var/lib/mailman/data/ was updated fine. I then ran
genaliases and no virtual-mailman file was created. If I create the
virtual-mailman file with the same permissions as aliases and run
genaliases then virtual-mailman.db is created but virtual-mailman
itself remains empty. Do I need to filling virtual-mailman myself or
should genaliases be doing this? If genaliases should be doing it, any
suggests on why it's not doing so?

Thanks
Guy
-- 
Don't just do something...sit there!

From barry at list.org  Wed Feb  3 15:57:20 2010
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:57:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Logo!
Message-ID: <6EB9AD14-906E-4E9D-A476-9CBE2DE4192F@list.org>

Hello graphic designers, we have our first logo submission!

http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/LogoSubmissions

Thanks Andrija for kicking us off.  Everyone else: sharpen up those inkscapes, gimps, or whatever other tool you use and submit some logos.  If you have any problems adding your logos to the above page, please do let me know.

Happy drawing,
-Barry


From Britad at wws.k12.in.us  Tue Feb  2 21:52:59 2010
From: Britad at wws.k12.in.us (Dan Brita)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:52:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias not updating
Message-ID: <4B684A5B02000096000560F1@mail.wws.k12.in.us>

I have a new installation of Mailman 2.1.12 running on Ubuntu with Postfix. When I create a list, it does not update my /etc/aliases file. It does update the /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases file. This causes Postfix to reject any email sent to the list. What have I done wrong in configuring this server?
Any help is appreciated.

From olivier.parisy at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 22:22:04 2010
From: olivier.parisy at gmail.com (Olivier Parisy)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:22:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim "Virtual Domains" and Mailman
Message-ID: <4B68977C.90700@gmail.com>

Hi,

I have been using a Debian-based mailman installation for some time now, 
administering a few lists, all hosted on xxx.tld. Everything worked fine.

I recently modified the underlying Exim 4 configuration to support 
"virtual domains", namely xxx.tld, yyy.tld and zzz.tld. I used a typical 
setup for this purpose (see 
http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/140 for an example).

On this occasion, I added a generic "*" rule to each domain. As an 
example, here is the content of a virtual domain file 
(/etc/exim4/virtual/xxx.tld):
webmaster : webmaster at localhost
* : postmaster at localhost

Once this modification was performed (and tested; things work fine on 
the Exim side), my xxx.tld - based mailing lists stopped working. More 
specifically, all messages sent to the lists are delivered to 
postmaster at xxx.tld. Here is the (abridged) header of such a message:

Return-path:<olivier.parisy at gmail.com>
Envelope-to: mylist at xxx.tld
Received: from smtp21.services.sfr.fr ([93.17.128.2])
	by www.xxx.tld with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from<olivier.parisy at gmail.com>)
	id 1NcPza-0006w5-Og
	for mylist at xxx.tld; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:09:02 +0100
Received: from filter.sfr.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by msfrf2107.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D4DD8700009A
	for<mylist at xxx.tld>; Tue,  2 Feb 2010 22:08:56 +0100 (CET)
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (160.135.100-84.rev.gaoland.net [84.100.135.160])
	by msfrf2107.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 9FCF6700008B
	for<mylist at xxx.tld>; Tue,  2 Feb 2010 22:08:56 +0100 (CET)
From: Olivier Parisy<olivier.parisy at gmail.com>
To: mylist at xxx.tld

Clearly, the "*" rule is taking precedence on mailman delivery, which do not even seem to get the message.

The only workaround I found is to add lines such as "mylist : mylist" to the /etc/exim4/virtual/xxx.tld file (one by mailing list). This is inconvenient to say the least.

Is there any way to keep an "*" rule without breaking mailan distribution? I understand this is as much an Exim 4 as a mailman question...

Regards,
Olivier Parisy.


From underground.sd at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:06:42 2010
From: underground.sd at gmail.com (UGSD)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 07:06:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.13 + vhost patches on multiple hosts
In-Reply-To: <4a0444211002030551t2d6a7bebk73d390918816cea3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4a0444211002030250v7ad639cx596b7edef62d2a4e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4a0444211002030551t2d6a7bebk73d390918816cea3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <562A7907-7477-44A7-9848-DAA45FC04CCC@gmail.com>


On Feb 3, 2010, at 5:51 AM, Guy wrote:
> 
> ===
> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.13
> 
> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
> 
> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
> traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
> but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
> ===

Most likely an error in changes you made
add this to mm_cfg.py

DEBUG_MODE = True

output will go into logs/errors.
> 
> 
> 2) I've created a list from command line with
>   newlist lists.domain2.net=test
> 
> aliases in /var/lib/mailman/data/ was updated fine. I then ran
> genaliases and no virtual-mailman file was created. If I create the
> virtual-mailman file with the same permissions as aliases and run
> genaliases then virtual-mailman.db is created but virtual-mailman
> itself remains empty. Do I need to filling virtual-mailman myself or
> should genaliases be doing this? If genaliases should be doing it, any
> suggests on why it's not doing so?
> 

should be 

bin/newlist -u <urlhost>  "list-name at domain2.net"


-i

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  3 16:36:48 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 07:36:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.13 + vhost patches on multiple hosts
In-Reply-To: <562A7907-7477-44A7-9848-DAA45FC04CCC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010020307364808755f24dc1b@msapiro>

UGSD wrote:
>
>On Feb 3, 2010, at 5:51 AM, Guy wrote:
>> 
>> ===
>> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.13
>> 
>> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>> 
>> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>> traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
>> but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>> ===
>
>Most likely an error in changes you made
>add this to mm_cfg.py
>
>DEBUG_MODE = True


There is no DEBUG_MODE switch in standard Mailman or in the vhost
patch. Putting the above in mm_cfg.py does nothing because nothing
references it.

Exceptions and tracebacks should be logged to Mailman's error log
regardless.

Perhaps you are thinking of the STEALTH_MODE setting in scripts/driver
which if set False will allow printing of traceback and other system
information to the browser.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at anl.gov  Wed Feb  3 16:49:17 2010
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed,  3 Feb 2010 09:49:17 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible Bug in 2.1.13 sync_members
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net>'
	dated: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:03:26 -0800
Message-ID: <20100203154917.595C9175E9@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

I wrote:

>>I think I may have uncovered a bug in Mailman 2.1.13.  I have not
>>completed my research.  I have a script that refreshes the subscriber
>>list via:
>>
>>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/sync_members -w=no -g=no -d=no -a=no \
>>     -f /e tc/mailman/generated_lists/LISTNAME LISTNAME
>>
>>where
>>
>>     /etc/mailman/generated_lists/LISTNAME
>>
>>is a file that contains a possibly updated mailing list.  In that file
>>there is a line:
>>
>>     ssmith at example.com        (XYZ, 012345, Smith, S.A. (Sam))
>>
>>and after I run the sync_members, every line below this one is
>>ignored; the e-mail addresses in those lines are unsubscribed from
>>the list.  This has happened with two lists since I installed
>>Mailman 2.1.13 (replacing 2.1.11 - I never installed 2.1.12 in
>>production).  The third list that contains this e-mail address has
>>a different format:
>>
>>     ssmith at example.com        (Smith, S.A. (Sam)      :012345)
>>
>>and that list has no problems.  I have not yet checked for changes in
>>the sync_members source from 2.1.11 to 2.1.12 to 2.1.13.


And Mark Sapiro replied:

>There are no changes in sync_members. What has changed is in 2.1.11,
>Mailman used its own email package (version 2.5.8) installed in
>Mailman's pythonlib directory. Beginning with 2.1.12, Mailman uses the
>email package of the installed Python which depends on version.
>
>The difference is almost certainly in email.Utils.getaddresses() which
>is used to parse the lines of the input into 'address' and 'display
>name + comment' parts.
>
>I think the problem is that the addresses
>
>ssmith at example.com        (XYZ, 012345, Smith, S.A. (Sam))
>
>and
>
>ssmith at example.com        (Smith, S.A. (Sam)      :012345)
>
>contain comments within comments and email.Utils.parseaddr() used by
>email.Utils.getaddresses() can be confused by this. However, email
>4.0.1 which is in most recent Python versions parses those into
>
>name: 'XYZ, 012345, Smith, S.A. Sam', address: 'ssmith at example.com'
>
>and
>
>name: 'Smith, S.A. Sam      :012345', address: 'ssmith at example.com'
>
>respectively, so that should be OK. Also email 3.0+ from python 2.4.2
>gives the same result.
>
>In any case, I am surprised at the result. If sync_members finds any
>member addresses in the input file that appear invalid, it reports
>these and quits before doing anything to the list, and if it throws an
>exception while updating the list, it quits without saving the updated
>list.
>
>What's in Mailman's error log? What's in the output from sync_members?


I ran a test with a test list on my test virtual machine, and this is
what is happening.  The line in the "-f" file for sync_members

     bsf-crane at example.com          (New 1 (zzz))

is causing all of the succeeding lines in that file to be treated as
part of the parenthesized "name-comments" field for this new
bsf-crane entry.  The command

     python -v

produces, in part,

     Python 2.4.3 (#2, Jul 31 2008, 21:53:26)

The Python packages installed on this Ubuntu dapper system are

     python
     python-dev
     python-minimal
     python2.4
     python2.4-dev
     python2.4-minimal

and the e-mail piece is found in

     /usr/lib/python2.4/email
and
     __init__.py
has
     __version__ = '3.0.1'

I will have to check if there is a newer Python package for dapper.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 240, Room 5.B.8             Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  3 16:49:26 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 07:49:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.13 + vhost patches on multiple hosts
In-Reply-To: <4a0444211002030250v7ad639cx596b7edef62d2a4e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002030749260640968fcfda@msapiro>

Guy wrote:
>
>I've patched 2.1.13 source with
>http://www.msapiro.net/mm/2.1.13_vhost.patch,


The current patch is http://www.msapiro.net/mm/2.1.13-1_vhost.patch

See http://www.msapiro.net/mm/_README


> vhost_extra_patch.txt


This plus a fix for the 'invalid listname issue is incorporated in the
above 2.1.13-1_vhost.patch
.


>and a patch for qrunner-slicing. I'm trying to run mailman across
>multiple mail servers and web servers. /var/lib/mailman is on a shared
>ISCSI mount.
>Starting mailman on any given server creates:
>/var/lib/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
>/var/lib/mailman/locks/master-qrunner
>/var/lib/mailman/locks/master-qrunner.<FQDN>.<numeric string>
>
>Looking at the code I can find where the master-qrunner file is
>created in mailmanctl, but I'm not sure where the
>master-qrunner.<FQDN>.<numeric string> comes from so I didn't want to
>try making changes without some idea what's defining those file names.
>
>Can anyone point me in the right direction for what I need to change
>for each server to create only one unique lockfile and unique pid
>file.


If you do that, you will only be able to run mailmanctl and qrunners on
one server. The master lock
/var/lib/mailman/locks/master-qrunner.<FQDN>.<numeric string> is
intended to prevent accidentally running more than one mailmanctl on
the same server.

If you have a problem with this, please give more detail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  3 17:00:11 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:00:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.13 + vhost patches on multiple hosts
In-Reply-To: <4a0444211002030551t2d6a7bebk73d390918816cea3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002030800110859bb3dd8e6@msapiro>

Guy wrote:
>
>Made a patch for Defaults.py.in that seems to have resolved that problem.


Do not ever patch Defaults.py. Override the settings in mm_cfg.py
instead. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/fIA9>


>I've now run into two other problems.
>
>1) The lists have their own vhost in apache lists.domain1.net with
>ServerAlias lines for the other domains.
>    http://lists.domain1.net/ gets this page:
>
>===
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.13
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
>but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>===
>
>I've run check_perms and it reported no problems. There's nothing in
>the logs and no errors in the apache logs apart from a missing
>favicon.ico file. Any suggestions on what else I should be looking at?


If there's nothing in Mailman's error log, then something is pretty
screwed up. You can patch scripts/driver on the apache host and change
STEALTH_MODE = 1 to STEALTH_MODE = 0 to get the information on the
screen.


>2) I've created a list from command line with
>    newlist lists.domain2.net=test
>
>aliases in /var/lib/mailman/data/ was updated fine. I then ran
>genaliases and no virtual-mailman file was created. If I create the
>virtual-mailman file with the same permissions as aliases and run
>genaliases then virtual-mailman.db is created but virtual-mailman
>itself remains empty. Do I need to filling virtual-mailman myself or
>should genaliases be doing this? If genaliases should be doing it, any
>suggests on why it's not doing so?


UGSD has already responded to this. bin/newlist doesn't work
intuitively with the vhost patch. you need redundant detail

  newlist -u lists.domain2.net test at domain2.net

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Wed Feb  3 17:00:30 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:00:30 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias not updating
In-Reply-To: <4B684A5B02000096000560F1@mail.wws.k12.in.us>
References: <4B684A5B02000096000560F1@mail.wws.k12.in.us>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002031754090.3663@data.home>

On Tue, 2 Feb 2010, Dan Brita wrote:

> I have a new installation of Mailman 2.1.12 running on Ubuntu with 
> Postfix. When I create a list, it does not update my /etc/aliases file. 
> It does update the /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases file.

This is expected behaviour.

> This causes 
> Postfix to reject any email sent to the list. What have I done wrong in 
> configuring this server?

You haven't told Postfix about /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.  Do this 
like so?

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,
   hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

and you'll probably want

virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual,
         hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

It looks like you've done much of the rest that you need to do, as the 
alias file is in fact being updated.

In my personal experience, you may find yourself missing important steps 
when installing Mailman from packages.  It wasn't until I needed to 
install from sources that I actually read the installation instructions 
from cover to cover, and realised I'd missed a few crucial (or at least 
advisable) steps.  So you might want to read 
http://list.org/mailman-install/

Cheers,
Geoff.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  3 17:07:31 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:07:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] where to edit html for /mailman/listinfo
In-Reply-To: <4B6972EE.10205@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201002030807310906bb3dd929@msapiro>

ed wrote:

>OK, I still feel dumb and have drank all the available coffee, so now I 
>will ask.
>Can someone point me to where to find the info on how/where to edit the 
>"umbrella" listinfo page? (http://forktechs.com/mailman/listinfo)


The listinfo overview is built on the fly (there's no template) by the
listinfo_overview() function in the module Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py.

In order to change it (other than for the colors which you can set in
mm_cfg.py) you need to modify the code in that module.

A similar situation exists with the admin overview and admin_overview()
in Mailman/Cgi/admin.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  3 17:14:42 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:14:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible Bug in 2.1.13 sync_members
In-Reply-To: <20100203154917.595C9175E9@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC195201002030814420375bb3dd721@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>I ran a test with a test list on my test virtual machine, and this is
>what is happening.  The line in the "-f" file for sync_members
>
>     bsf-crane at example.com          (New 1 (zzz))
>
>is causing all of the succeeding lines in that file to be treated as
>part of the parenthesized "name-comments" field for this new
>bsf-crane entry.  The command
>
>     python -v
>
>produces, in part,
>
>     Python 2.4.3 (#2, Jul 31 2008, 21:53:26)
[...]
>and the e-mail piece is found in
>
>     /usr/lib/python2.4/email
>and
>     __init__.py
>has
>     __version__ = '3.0.1'
>
>I will have to check if there is a newer Python package for dapper.


Since it worked before with Mailman's 2.5.8 email package, and doesn't
work with email 3.0.1, it is unlikely that anything newer will help.

The problem would seem to be in email.Utils.getaddresses().

I'll look at this later today.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  3 17:18:29 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:18:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias not updating
In-Reply-To: <4B684A5B02000096000560F1@mail.wws.k12.in.us>
Message-ID: <PC195201002030818290750bb3dd88b@msapiro>

Dan Brita wrote:

>I have a new installation of Mailman 2.1.12 running on Ubuntu with Postfix. When I create a list, it does not update my /etc/aliases file. It does update the /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases file. This causes Postfix to reject any email sent to the list. What have I done wrong in configuring this server?


There should be no Mailman aliases in /etc/aliases. Postfix should have
hash:/path/to/mailman/data/aliasaes in it's alias_maps so postfix gets
Mailman's aliases from Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  3 17:22:13 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:22:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim "Virtual Domains" and Mailman
In-Reply-To: <4B68977C.90700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002030822130625bb3dd7fe@msapiro>

Olivier Parisy wrote:
>
>Clearly, the "*" rule is taking precedence on mailman delivery, which do not even seem to get the message.
>
>The only workaround I found is to add lines such as "mylist : mylist" to the /etc/exim4/virtual/xxx.tld file (one by mailing list). This is inconvenient to say the least.
>
>Is there any way to keep an "*" rule without breaking mailan distribution? I understand this is as much an Exim 4 as a mailman question...


Make sure your mailman router in your exim.conf comes before the router
that uses the virtual domain files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From underground.sd at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:24:00 2010
From: underground.sd at gmail.com (UGSD)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:24:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.13 + vhost patches on multiple hosts
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010020307364808755f24dc1b@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010020307364808755f24dc1b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <FCB94432-99A5-4410-8802-C873E811B9EE@gmail.com>

>>> 
>> 
>> Most likely an error in changes you made
>> add this to mm_cfg.py
>> 
>> DEBUG_MODE = True
> 
> 
> There is no DEBUG_MODE switch in standard Mailman or in the vhost
> patch. Putting the above in mm_cfg.py does nothing because nothing
> references it.
> 
> Exceptions and tracebacks should be logged to Mailman's error log
> regardless.
> 
> Perhaps you are thinking of the STEALTH_MODE setting in scripts/driver
> which if set False will allow printing of traceback and other system
> information to the browser.
> 

Hm.. you are right. In my attempts to figure out what was wrong with my vhost setup 
last week i searched google for "Mailman debug" and came across this page:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/systers/+bug/417134

So i put 2 and 2 together... and got 5, but i guess i missed the part where it said

"Systers is an international community of over 3,000 women involved in technical-computing. 
The community uses a custom version of Mailman, that includes a thread subscribe and 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
unsubscribe feature and the ability to self-add alternate email addresses."

My bad.

- Igor

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  4 01:52:38 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:52:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible Bug in 2.1.13 sync_members
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002030814420375bb3dd721@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC195201002031652380640594a1626@msapiro>

>Barry Finkel wrote:
>>
>>I ran a test with a test list on my test virtual machine, and this is
>>what is happening.  The line in the "-f" file for sync_members
>>
>>     bsf-crane at example.com          (New 1 (zzz))
>>
>>is causing all of the succeeding lines in that file to be treated as
>>part of the parenthesized "name-comments" field for this new
>>bsf-crane entry.  The command


Yes, I am able to duplicate this issue with email 3.0.1
Utils.getaddresses(), but only if the input file is 'unix format'
(<LF> line terminators and only if the succeeding lines also have the
'name' in a comment. If the file is 'dos format' - i.e. <CRLF> line
terminators, the problem does not occur. Also, I don't think it occurs
with email 4.0.1 with either input format. And if there are lines of
the form "Display Name <user at example.com>", the first of those and the
subsequent lines will be OK.

The underlying problem is in the _parseaddr module in the email package
which misses the second paren when a nested comment and the outer
comment terminate together

As a workaround, for sync_members, you could try the following. Find
this section

    # strip out lines we don't care about, they are comments (# in first
    # non-whitespace) or are blank
    for i in range(len(filemembers)-1, -1, -1):
        addr = filemembers[i].strip()
        if addr == '' or addr[:1] == '#':
            del filemembers[i]
            print _('Ignore  :  %(addr)30s')

add three lines so it becomes

    # strip out lines we don't care about, they are comments (# in first
    # non-whitespace) or are blank
    for i in range(len(filemembers)-1, -1, -1):
        addr = filemembers[i].strip()
        if addr == '' or addr[:1] == '#':
            del filemembers[i]
            print _('Ignore  :  %(addr)30s')
        else:
            # work around bug in email 3.0.1 Utils.getaddresses()
            filemembers[i] = addr + '\r\n'

The better fix is the attached _parseaddr.patch.txt for the 3.0.1
email/_parseaddr.py

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: _parseaddr.patch.txt
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100203/08121654/attachment.txt>

From binghamt at upstate.edu  Wed Feb  3 16:24:20 2010
From: binghamt at upstate.edu (Tim Bingham)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:24:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual host with "manual" MTA?
Message-ID: <a06240807c78f42b70e42@[139.127.70.135]>

Greetings all,

First-time poster here. I have Mailman 2.1.5 that has been running 
great for years on an older Solaris 8 server. I received a request to 
create a list using a host name that's not the actual host name of 
the server. Let's say the server is "lists.university.edu" and the 
requested list name is "listname at lists.project.org".

I read up what I could find (and understand) about virtual hosts and 
I was able to successfully create the list with the alternate host 
name, configure Apache to have a virtual host pointed to the web 
interface for that list, and I added a domain to our DNS and set up 
the host name there. I can subscribe to the list and post to it using 
the virtual host name, but email coming out from the list has the 
real host name as the reply address.

Everything I've read mentions configuring Postfix for virtual hosts. 
However, I'm not using Postfix - my Defaults.py has MTA = 'Manual' 
and DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'.

Is there anything I can do to get the list to use the virtual host 
name for a reply address on outgoing email without installing and 
using Postfix? I have no experience with it and am trying to keep it 
simple.

Thanks for any help you can offer,
Tim

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  4 15:19:20 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:19:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual host with "manual" MTA?
In-Reply-To: <a06240807c78f42b70e42@[139.127.70.135]>
Message-ID: <PC1952010020406192005932801f5e5@msapiro>

Tim Bingham wrote:
>
>I read up what I could find (and understand) about virtual hosts and 
>I was able to successfully create the list with the alternate host 
>name, configure Apache to have a virtual host pointed to the web 
>interface for that list, and I added a domain to our DNS and set up 
>the host name there. I can subscribe to the list and post to it using 
>the virtual host name, but email coming out from the list has the 
>real host name as the reply address.


What is the host_name attribute (near the bottom of the admin General
Options page)? If it is "lists.university.edu", that's the problem. If
so, make sure you have a correct add_virtualhost('lists.project.org',
'lists.project.org') (assuming web and email domains are the same) in
mm_cfg.py, and you may want to run fix_url, although just changing the
host_name via the web admin is probably OK if the web URLs for the
list are OK.

If host_name is "lists.project.org", then it is probably your MTA that
is rewriting the domain. This is an MTA configuration and/or DNS
issue. The FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uYA9> may be helpful.


>Everything I've read mentions configuring Postfix for virtual hosts. 
>However, I'm not using Postfix - my Defaults.py has MTA = 'Manual' 
>and DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'.
>
>Is there anything I can do to get the list to use the virtual host 
>name for a reply address on outgoing email without installing and 
>using Postfix? I have no experience with it and am trying to keep it 
>simple.


You don't need to use Postfix. The docs discuss Postfix because Postfix
is the only MTA for which Mailman can be configured to automatically
generat aliases and virtual domain maps, but you can have virtual
domains with Mailman and probably any MTA.

If this is an MTA issue, see my remarks above and the FAQ. I'm sure you
can configure this to work, but since you haven't even told us what
the MTA is or what's in DNS, we are unable to say more at this point.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at anl.gov  Thu Feb  4 16:48:25 2010
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Thu,  4 Feb 2010 09:48:25 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible Bug in 2.1.13 sync_members
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net>'
	dated: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:52:38 -0800
Message-ID: <20100204154826.13FE3175E9@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

>Barry Finkel wrote:
>>
>>I ran a test with a test list on my test virtual machine, and this is
>>what is happening.  The line in the "-f" file for sync_members
>>
>>     bsf-crane at example.com          (New 1 (zzz))
>>
>>is causing all of the succeeding lines in that file to be treated as
>>part of the parenthesized "name-comments" field for this new
>>bsf-crane entry.  The command


Mark Sapiro replied:
>Yes, I am able to duplicate this issue with email 3.0.1
>Utils.getaddresses(), but only if the input file is 'unix format'
>(<LF> line terminators and only if the succeeding lines also have the
>'name' in a comment. If the file is 'dos format' - i.e. <CRLF> line
>terminators, the problem does not occur. Also, I don't think it occurs
>with email 4.0.1 with either input format. And if there are lines of
>the form "Display Name <user at example.com>", the first of those and the
>subsequent lines will be OK.
>
>The underlying problem is in the _parseaddr module in the email package
>which misses the second paren when a nested comment and the outer
>comment terminate together
>
>As a workaround, for sync_members, you could try the following. Find
>this section
>
>    # strip out lines we don't care about, they are comments (# in first
>    # non-whitespace) or are blank
>    for i in range(len(filemembers)-1, -1, -1):
>        addr = filemembers[i].strip()
>        if addr == '' or addr[:1] == '#':
>            del filemembers[i]
>            print _('Ignore  :  %(addr)30s')
>
>add three lines so it becomes
>
>    # strip out lines we don't care about, they are comments (# in first
>    # non-whitespace) or are blank
>    for i in range(len(filemembers)-1, -1, -1):
>        addr = filemembers[i].strip()
>        if addr == '' or addr[:1] == '#':
>            del filemembers[i]
>            print _('Ignore  :  %(addr)30s')
>        else:
>            # work around bug in email 3.0.1 Utils.getaddresses()
>            filemembers[i] = addr + '\r\n'
>
>The better fix is the attached _parseaddr.patch.txt for the 3.0.1
>email/_parseaddr.py


I applied the patch to 

     /usr/lib/python2.4/email/_parseaddr.py

on my test Mailman system, and I reset the

subscriber list back to its original.  I then ran the same

     /usr/lib/mailman/bin/sync_members

command, and there were no problems: the one subscriber was added,
and the subsequent address lines were not unsubscribed.  I did some RFC
research, and RFC 2822 "Internet Message Format" in section 3.4.1
states:

      Note: Some legacy implementations used the simple form where the
      addr-spec appears without the angle brackets, but included the
      name of the recipient in parentheses as a comment following the
      addr-spec.  Since the meaning of the information in a comment is
      unspecified, implementations SHOULD use the full name-addr form of
      the mailbox, instead of the legacy form, to specify the display
      name associated with a mailbox.  Also, because some legacy
      implementations interpret the comment, comments generally SHOULD
      NOT be used in address fields to avoid confusing such
      implementations.

The same text is in the newer RFC 5322, which obsoletes 2822.  So the
format I am using

     user at example.com   (comments)

SHOULD not be used; the accepted format is

     "comments" <user at example.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 240, Room 5.B.8             Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From donsmile68 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:04:47 2010
From: donsmile68 at gmail.com (Marie-Yvette INGABIRE)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:04:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message with the attachment!
Message-ID: <8f295a581002040804t3c377a82qe91b633376919576@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I tried to send a message, which has to be approved by a moderator, with an
attachment. I have just noticed that when the message is approved, it is
sent but arrives at the addressees without that attachment.

I consulted various discussions about subject but I found nothing that can
inquire. Can you help me?

Thank you
-- 
Marie Yvette Leguojeu

From donsmile68 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:05:06 2010
From: donsmile68 at gmail.com (Marie-Yvette INGABIRE)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:05:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message with the attachment!
Message-ID: <8f295a581002040805l73732548ie2771cd69289a738@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I tried to send a message, which has to be approved by a moderator, with an
attachment. I have just noticed that when the message is approved, it is
sent but arrives at the addressees without that attachment.

I consulted various discussions about subject but I found nothing that can
inquire. Can you help me?

Thank you
-- 
Marie Yvette Leguojeu

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Thu Feb  4 17:07:31 2010
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:07:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message with the attachment!
In-Reply-To: <8f295a581002040805l73732548ie2771cd69289a738@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8f295a581002040805l73732548ie2771cd69289a738@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100204160731.GA24218@charite.de>

* Marie-Yvette INGABIRE <donsmile68 at gmail.com>:
> Hello,
> 
> I tried to send a message, which has to be approved by a moderator, with an
> attachment.

Where did you send it to?

> I have just noticed that when the message is approved, it is sent but
> arrives at the addressees without that attachment.
> 
> I consulted various discussions about subject but I found nothing that can
> inquire. Can you help me?

The list is configured to strip off attachments.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From binghamt at upstate.edu  Thu Feb  4 20:15:46 2010
From: binghamt at upstate.edu (Tim Bingham)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:15:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual host with "manual" MTA? - summary
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010020406192005932801f5e5@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010020406192005932801f5e5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a06240813c790ccae64c5@[139.127.70.135]>

>Tim Bingham wrote:
>>
>>I read up what I could find (and understand) about virtual hosts and
>>I was able to successfully create the list with the alternate host
>>name, configure Apache to have a virtual host pointed to the web
>>interface for that list, and I added a domain to our DNS and set up
>>the host name there. I can subscribe to the list and post to it using
>>the virtual host name, but email coming out from the list has the
>>real host name as the reply address.
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>...
>If host_name is "lists.project.org", then it is probably your MTA that
>is rewriting the domain. This is an MTA configuration and/or DNS
>issue. The FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uYA9> may be helpful.

Thanks for your help, and my apologies for not finding that FAQ entry 
you indicated. It held the key. I simply changed my DNS entry for the 
virtual domain from a CNAME to an A record and that fixed the 
problem. Outgoing emails now maintain the desired virtual domain name.

Regards,
Tim

From wyldfury at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 18:23:27 2010
From: wyldfury at gmail.com (Guy)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:23:27 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails to list missing in clustered environment.
Message-ID: <4a0444211002050923w28227905ka4d1677d480fb9d0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I've managed to set up Mailman now (thanks Igor and Mark for all the
help) clustered and with the vhost patch. But I'm having an odd
problem. I'm not seeing a pattern to this, but some messages go
through Postfix and are delivered to mailman and then nothing. Nothing
in the Mailman logs and the message just disappears.

Those that do go through are delivered to all members of the list and
are archived. They are also logged as per normal.

I was wondering whether the shared qfiles might have something to do with it?
I've got the section below in my mm_cfg.py:
QRUNNERS = [
        ('ArchRunner',     5,0,5), # messages for the archiver
        ('BounceRunner',   5,0,5), # for processing the qfile/bounces directory
        ('CommandRunner',  5,0,5), # commands and bounces from the outside world
        ('IncomingRunner', 5,0,5), # posts from the outside world
        ('NewsRunner',     5,0,5), # outgoing messages to the nntpd
        ('OutgoingRunner', 5,0,5), # outgoing messages to the smtpd
        ('VirginRunner',   5,0,5), # internally crafted (virgin birth) messages
        ('RetryRunner',    5,0,5), # retry temporarily failed deliveries
]

The other 2 servers I've installed so far (the 2 mail gateways) are
5,3,5 and 5,4,5. The other 2 web servers don't have mailman installed
yet.
Is that config correct for 5 servers?

-- 
Don't just do something...sit there!

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  5 19:27:01 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:27:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails to list missing in clustered environment.
In-Reply-To: <4a0444211002050923w28227905ka4d1677d480fb9d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010020510270100351e198d24@msapiro>

Guy wrote:
>
>I've managed to set up Mailman now (thanks Igor and Mark for all the
>help) clustered and with the vhost patch. But I'm having an odd
>problem. I'm not seeing a pattern to this, but some messages go
>through Postfix and are delivered to mailman and then nothing. Nothing
>in the Mailman logs and the message just disappears.


What does the Postfix maillog entry say?


>Those that do go through are delivered to all members of the list and
>are archived. They are also logged as per normal.
>
>I was wondering whether the shared qfiles might have something to do with it?
>I've got the section below in my mm_cfg.py:
>QRUNNERS = [
>        ('ArchRunner',     5,0,5), # messages for the archiver
>        ('BounceRunner',   5,0,5), # for processing the qfile/bounces directory
>        ('CommandRunner',  5,0,5), # commands and bounces from the outside world
>        ('IncomingRunner', 5,0,5), # posts from the outside world
>        ('NewsRunner',     5,0,5), # outgoing messages to the nntpd
>        ('OutgoingRunner', 5,0,5), # outgoing messages to the smtpd
>        ('VirginRunner',   5,0,5), # internally crafted (virgin birth) messages
>        ('RetryRunner',    5,0,5), # retry temporarily failed deliveries
>]
>
>The other 2 servers I've installed so far (the 2 mail gateways) are
>5,3,5 and 5,4,5. The other 2 web servers don't have mailman installed
>yet.
>Is that config correct for 5 servers?


No.

I suspect the messages are in qfiles/in/ and not being processed by any
IncomingRunner

Assuming the method from
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-March/060753.html>,
the entries in the QRUNNERS list are tuples of (name, count,
this_machine_number, number_of_machines)

name is the qrunner name; you're good there.

count is the total number of slices for that queue. This should be a
power of 2 multiple of number_of_machines,

this_machine_number is the number of this machine; a number from 0 to
number_of_machines - 1

number_of_machines is the number of machines on which mailmanctl and
qrunners are running

I'm not clear on what number_of_machines is in your case, but it
certainly isn't more than 3. If mailmanctl and qrunners are only
running on this one machine, its entries should be (name, 1,0,1). If
the mail gateways are also running qrunners, then this machine should
have entries (name, 3,0,3) and the others (name, 3,1,3) and (name,
3,2,3).

With (name, 5,0,5) and the others (name, 5,3,5) and (name, 5,4,5), the
queues are partitioned into 5 slices and only slices 0, 3 and 4 are
being processed leaving 40% of the messages waiting in the in/ queue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From wyldfury at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 19:36:06 2010
From: wyldfury at gmail.com (Guy)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:36:06 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails to list missing in clustered environment.
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010020510270100351e198d24@msapiro>
References: <4a0444211002050923w28227905ka4d1677d480fb9d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952010020510270100351e198d24@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4a0444211002051036x727ca43dl40e21425806a4f95@mail.gmail.com>

On 5 February 2010 18:27, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> With (name, 5,0,5) and the others (name, 5,3,5) and (name, 5,4,5), the
> queues are partitioned into 5 slices and only slices 0, 3 and 4 are
> being processed leaving 40% of the messages waiting in the in/ queue.

Changed to the suggested 3,0,3-3,2,3 and suddenly all the "missing"
email came through. <smack forehead>

I've got just 2 more problems left (I hope).

1) Invitation/subscription confirmation emails go out with a link in
this format: http://lists.domain2.net/confirm/test/526cfbe0f5e7836315ee5f17444aaae885500318

lists.domain2.net is a virtual host and listed in mm_cfg.py.

Is this easily patched post or pre compile or is it a bit more complex
than that?

2) If I set the list to have private archives it works perfectly, but
if I select public archives I get a forbidden error and this in my
apache logs:
Symbolic link not allowed or link target not accessible:
/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/lists.domain2.net/test

===lists.domain1.net apache vhost file===
<VirtualHost *:80>
        ServerName lists.domain1.net
        DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost
        ErrorLog /var/log/apache2/lists-error.log
        CustomLog /var/log/apache2/lists-access.log combined

        <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/>
                Options Indexes +FollowSymLinks
                AllowOverride None
        </Directory>

        Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
        Alias /images/mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/icons/
        ScriptAlias /admin /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
        ScriptAlias /admindb /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb
        ScriptAlias /confirm /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/confirm
        ScriptAlias /create /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/create
        ScriptAlias /edithtml /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/edithtml
        ScriptAlias /listinfo /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo
        ScriptAlias /options /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/options
        ScriptAlias /private /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/private
        ScriptAlias /rmlist /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/rmlist
        ScriptAlias /roster /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/roster
        ScriptAlias /subscribe /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/subscribe
        ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/

        ServerAlias lists.domain2.net
        ServerAlias lists.domain3.net

</VirtualHost>
===

FollowSymLinks is enabled and permissions on the link and actual folder are:
lrwxrwxrwx 1 www-data mailman   55 2010-02-05 18:10 test ->
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/lists.cantab.net/test/
drwxrwsr-x 5 root    mailman 3896 2010-02-05 17:34
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/lists.cantab.net/test/
drwxrwsr-x 2 root    mailman 3896 2010-02-05 13:07
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/lists.cantab.net/test.mbox/

Any idea whether this is a permissions problem or should I be poking
more deeply into my apache config? Root allows override on everything
so it didn't seem like that was the problem to me. As always I'm quite
possibly wrong there...

Thanks, I really appreciate all the help!
Guy

-- 
Don't just do something...sit there!

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  5 21:01:42 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:01:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails to list missing in clustered environment.
In-Reply-To: <4a0444211002051036x727ca43dl40e21425806a4f95@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002051201420441d51b83a3@msapiro>

Guy wrote:
>
>I've got just 2 more problems left (I hope).
>
>1) Invitation/subscription confirmation emails go out with a link in
>this format: http://lists.domain2.net/confirm/test/526cfbe0f5e7836315ee5f17444aaae885500318
>
>lists.domain2.net is a virtual host and listed in mm_cfg.py.
>
>Is this easily patched post or pre compile or is it a bit more complex
>than that?


The initial portion of that URL is the list's web_page_url attribute.
This is established at list creation time by interpolating the lists
URL host into DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN. It can be changed with fix_url (see
<http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9>).

I'm not sure what you want when you ask if it's easily patched. What do
you want?


>2) If I set the list to have private archives it works perfectly, but
>if I select public archives I get a forbidden error and this in my
>apache logs:
>Symbolic link not allowed or link target not accessible:
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/lists.domain2.net/test
>
>===lists.domain1.net apache vhost file===
><VirtualHost *:80>
>        ServerName lists.domain1.net
>        DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost
>        ErrorLog /var/log/apache2/lists-error.log
>        CustomLog /var/log/apache2/lists-access.log combined
>
>        <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/>
>                Options Indexes +FollowSymLinks
>                AllowOverride None
>        </Directory>
>
>        Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
>        Alias /images/mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/icons/
>        ScriptAlias /admin /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
>        ScriptAlias /admindb /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb
>        ScriptAlias /confirm /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/confirm
>        ScriptAlias /create /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/create
>        ScriptAlias /edithtml /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/edithtml
>        ScriptAlias /listinfo /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo
>        ScriptAlias /options /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/options
>        ScriptAlias /private /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/private
>        ScriptAlias /rmlist /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/rmlist
>        ScriptAlias /roster /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/roster
>        ScriptAlias /subscribe /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/subscribe
>        ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/


You may or may not need all those ScriptAlias directives depending on
what else may be on this host. Consider

        ScriptAlias / /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/


>        ServerAlias lists.domain2.net
>        ServerAlias lists.domain3.net
>
></VirtualHost>
>===
>
>FollowSymLinks is enabled and permissions on the link and actual folder are:
>lrwxrwxrwx 1 www-data mailman   55 2010-02-05 18:10 test ->
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/lists.cantab.net/test/
>drwxrwsr-x 5 root    mailman 3896 2010-02-05 17:34
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/lists.cantab.net/test/
>drwxrwsr-x 2 root    mailman 3896 2010-02-05 13:07
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/lists.cantab.net/test.mbox/


Every directory in the /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/ path must be
searchable by the web server. Where people normally go wrong is
setting g-x on /var/lib/mailman/archives/private itself without making
it owned by the web server. See the warning box at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ssteinhart at verizon.net  Fri Feb  5 10:10:11 2010
From: ssteinhart at verizon.net (Scott Steinhart)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 04:10:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help?
Message-ID: <4B6BE073.5060407@verizon.net>

Hello...

I was wondering if you would be so kind as to help me, I've been trying 
for 2 weeks straight to get Mailman working on my system. The only thing 
I've accomplished is headaches. I know the system works, as I have seen 
it in use. But no matter how I try, I am unable to get it to work.

I'm running CentOS 5.2, Postfix, and Apache 2, and the current version 
of Python.  I've followed the installation instructions. On some 
instances, I've gotten Mailman to go so far as to send me confirmation 
emails when i create mail lists and subscribe. But I am unable to post. 
Postfix shows relay errors constantly.

My biggest issue is no matter what I do, I can't seem to get Mailman to 
create the "virtual-mailman" file. I've tried installing using the 
tarball file and I've tried using Yum. I want to use Mailman for my 
son's boy scout troop. I was told it's easy to set up. While I am no 
expert in using Linux, I do well enough, so I figured this would be a 
pretty clean install. Sadly, I've just had no luck.

Please please please-- any help you can offer would be GREATLY appreciated.

Best Regards,
Scott Steinhart

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb  6 16:05:38 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:05:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help?
In-Reply-To: <4B6BE073.5060407@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201002060705380609cc791887@msapiro>

Scott Steinhart wrote:
>
>My biggest issue is no matter what I do, I can't seem to get Mailman to 
>create the "virtual-mailman" file. I've tried installing using the 
>tarball file and I've tried using Yum. I want to use Mailman for my 
>son's boy scout troop. I was told it's easy to set up. While I am no 
>expert in using Linux, I do well enough, so I figured this would be a 
>pretty clean install. Sadly, I've just had no luck.


Don't use the Yum install. It is 2.1.9 for CentOS 5 which is quite old.
Install the 2.1.13 tarball.

Is the list's email domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in
mm_cfg.py? is "MTA = 'Postfix'" in mm_cfg.py?

If you've read
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html>, note that
the part about not including dom1.ain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
is not applicable in most installations.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From judysemails at trest.com  Sat Feb  6 16:58:01 2010
From: judysemails at trest.com (Judys Email Lists)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 10:58:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help?
In-Reply-To: <4B6BE073.5060407@verizon.net>
References: <4B6BE073.5060407@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4B6D9189.4000404@trest.com>

I am relatively new to mailman and am running about a dozen lists.  One 
of them seems to have been picked up by the spammers

prtspecials-owner at mail.trest.com
prtmembers-owner at mail.trest.com

Is there any segment in the software I can change that will bounce these 
messages and yet allow legitimate messages go through?

I am running Mailman on LINUX Fedora Core 11 using send mail and Mailman.

Thanks
Judy Trest
Trest Consulting
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb  7 16:41:05 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 07:41:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help?
In-Reply-To: <4B6D9189.4000404@trest.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002070741050828cd030981@msapiro>

Judys Email Lists wrote:

>I am relatively new to mailman and am running about a dozen lists.  One 
>of them seems to have been picked up by the spammers
>
>prtspecials-owner at mail.trest.com
>prtmembers-owner at mail.trest.com
>
>Is there any segment in the software I can change that will bounce these 
>messages and yet allow legitimate messages go through?


Mailman doesn't have much. About all there is is Privacy options... ->
Spam filters -> header_filter_rules which may or may not be effective
depending on whether or not you can identify patterns in the headers
of the spam. The one caveat is the header_filter_rules Hold action
doesn't work for mail to the -owner address. The reason is that
dealing with a held spam message is as much or more bother for the
owner/moderator than just receiving the spam. Discard is effective for
-owner mail, and Reject is effectively Discard for -owner mail, but
you don't want to Reject spam anyway because the rejection goes to an
almost certainly forged address.


>I am running Mailman on LINUX Fedora Core 11 using send mail and Mailman.


At the least, you should have SpamAssassin and a SpamAssassin milter in
sendmail

Greylisting is effective for many installations but has it's drawbacks.
More elaborate solutions such as MailScanner are also popular, but
have drawbacks as well.

In short, you should be dealng with spam by rejecting or maybe
discarding as much as possible at incoming SMTP time.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From wyldfury at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 09:45:20 2010
From: wyldfury at gmail.com (Guy)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 08:45:20 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails to list missing in clustered environment.
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002051201420441d51b83a3@msapiro>
References: <4a0444211002051036x727ca43dl40e21425806a4f95@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201002051201420441d51b83a3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4a0444211002080045u74ab65a7r2a90d31ac18522d2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

On 5 February 2010 20:01, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>1) Invitation/subscription confirmation emails go out with a link in
>>this format: http://lists.domain2.net/confirm/test/526cfbe0f5e7836315ee5f17444aaae885500318
>>
>>lists.domain2.net is a virtual host and listed in mm_cfg.py.
>>
>>Is this easily patched post or pre compile or is it a bit more complex
>>than that?
>
> The initial portion of that URL is the list's web_page_url attribute.
> This is established at list creation time by interpolating the lists
> URL host into DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN. It can be changed with fix_url (see
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9>).
>
> I'm not sure what you want when you ask if it's easily patched. What do
> you want?

Finally figured that one out. There was nothing wrong with the link
itself. We have multiple web servers and I was getting a 404 with the
link because it was going to a web server that didn't have mailman on
it yet. Another dumb on my part. Sorry!

> Every directory in the /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/ path must be
> searchable by the web server. Where people normally go wrong is
> setting g-x on /var/lib/mailman/archives/private itself without making
> it owned by the web server. See the warning box at
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.

That was it! Must have been changed at some point during all the
fiddling I've been doing!

Thanks very much Mark!

-- 
Don't just do something...sit there!

From wyldfury at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 12:50:10 2010
From: wyldfury at gmail.com (Guy)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:50:10 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] empty archive listinfo link + skinning mailman
Message-ID: <4a0444211002080350ka8b700dibef6455adb7e5368@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Everything looks to working properly with my clustered set up now.
Just noticed one thing.
The page that comes up when you've got an empty archive includes a
link to the listinfo page for the list.
That link seems to always use the DEFAULT_URL_HOST rather than the URL
of the virtual host for that list.
I've run fix-url on the list, so it doesn't appear to be amongst the
things that are fixed by that. Is there anything I can do to fix that?

I've also had the boss asking me whether it is possible to skin
mailman now that he's seen it. Basically he'd like to be able to put
the company logo on and also limit the number of options visible to
users managing their own lists. He basically wants a dumbed down
interface for list admins apart from us.
Can this sort of skinning be done? And if not, is there an easy way
for us to find out the variables used on the admin forms? We could
then create our own php pages that call the forms already being posted
to by mailman, at least I think that should be possible?

Thanks
Guy

-- 
Don't just do something...sit there!

From jim at jclauson.com  Mon Feb  8 01:06:36 2010
From: jim at jclauson.com (Jim Clauson, Breakthrough Systems)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:06:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive did not 'roll over' to 2010
In-Reply-To: <mailman.33.1265540403.9335.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.33.1265540403.9335.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <mailman.1239.1265642648.28901.mailman-users@python.org>

New subscriber with a problem over my head.

My list has been running fine and archiving for 2+ years.  When we 
hit 2010 -- no more archives.

Location: 
http://deming-network.org/mailman/listinfo/den.list_deming-network.org
Archives: http://deming-network.org/pipermail/den.list_deming-network.org/
Version:  2.1.12.cp3

I have not seen anything on the Mailman site, nor in the GUI to resolve this.

I have sent test messages and the distribution is working fine.  I 
have held the 30 or so postings - waiting to find an archive fix 
before I release them.

I am not a programmer, do not have command line access, do everything 
thru the GUI interface and do not have any access to the Pipermail 
directory where the archives reside.

Ideas?

TIA,

jc


<>=====================<><><>===================<>
Jim Clauson --------------------- jim at jclauson.com
Breakthrough Systems ----- http://jclauson.com
"Life is very short, please investigate it closely." - Gautama Buddha
<>=====================<><><>===================<>


From me at electronico.nc  Sun Feb  7 23:54:52 2010
From: me at electronico.nc (me at electronico.nc)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:54:52 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.13 install dir permissions
Message-ID: <4B6F44BC.9020207@electronico.nc>

Hello everyone,

Please excuse-me for this question but I haven't been able to find the 
answer in archives ...
I try to install 2.1.13 on a new server.
(2.6.28-18-server #59-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jan 28 02:23:52 UTC 2010 i686 
GNU/Linux)

I have used the --prefix option to install mailman in a different 
directory :
./configure --prefix=/home/mailman

I can't (and make install neither) mkdir in choosen directory.

Here are the permissions for /home/mailman :
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4,0K 2010-02-08 08:18 mailman

Here are the groups for the user 'serveur' (the one I launch make 
install from) :
id serveur
uid=1000(serveur) gid=1000(serveur) 
groupes=1000(serveur),4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),46(plugdev),116(lpadmin),117(sambashare),118(admin),20006(mailman)

Thanks in advance for your help.


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  8 17:25:37 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 08:25:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] empty archive listinfo link + skinning mailman
In-Reply-To: <4a0444211002080350ka8b700dibef6455adb7e5368@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010020808253707819ece07b2@msapiro>

Guy wrote:
>
>Everything looks to working properly with my clustered set up now.
>Just noticed one thing.
>The page that comes up when you've got an empty archive includes a
>link to the listinfo page for the list.
>That link seems to always use the DEFAULT_URL_HOST rather than the URL
>of the virtual host for that list.
>I've run fix-url on the list, so it doesn't appear to be amongst the
>things that are fixed by that. Is there anything I can do to fix that?


If you post something to the list, that page will be rebuilt and use
the current value of the list's web_page_url in that link.

The page was built when the list was created using whatever was the
list's web_page_url at that time, and it is a static page and won't
change until a post is archived.

If archive is set to No for the list, you'll have to edit the page by
hand.


>I've also had the boss asking me whether it is possible to skin
>mailman now that he's seen it. Basically he'd like to be able to put
>the company logo on and also limit the number of options visible to
>users managing their own lists. He basically wants a dumbed down
>interface for list admins apart from us.
>Can this sort of skinning be done? And if not, is there an easy way
>for us to find out the variables used on the admin forms? We could
>then create our own php pages that call the forms already being posted
>to by mailman, at least I think that should be possible?


You can remove "Configuration Categories" from the admin interface by
deleting them from ADMIN_CATEGORIES. - copy the ADMIN_CATEGORIES
definition from Defaults.py to mm_cfg.py and edit it there. You can
make any category other than General Options inaccessible, but this
will be for all users of the list admin interface.

The variable names on the web forms are the names of the attributes as
displayed on the form, but there are a few other things that need to
be included in the POST data. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9> and the "source html" of the pages
themselves for more hints.

You can change colors used in the web interface with mm_cfg.py settings.

You can change the footer at the bottom of non-archive web pages by
editing the definition of GetMailmanFooter() in
Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py.

You can change the beginning and ending HTML of pages by editing the
Document.Format() method in Mailman/htmlformat.py, and you can make
edited templates for those pages built from templates (see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9>)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  8 17:29:15 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 08:29:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails to list missing in clustered environment.
In-Reply-To: <4a0444211002080045u74ab65a7r2a90d31ac18522d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100208082915070363a3b00e@msapiro>

Guy wrote:
>
>On 5 February 2010 20:01, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>> Every directory in the /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/ path must be
>> searchable by the web server. Where people normally go wrong is
>> setting g-x on /var/lib/mailman/archives/private itself without making
>> it owned by the web server. See the warning box at
>> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.
>
>That was it! Must have been changed at some point during all the
>fiddling I've been doing!


I'm sure Guy figured out what I meant, and it should be clear from the
page linked above, but to avoid potential confusion in the archives, I
meant to say "o-x" above, not "g-x".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  8 17:42:46 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 08:42:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive did not 'roll over' to 2010
In-Reply-To: <20100208152504.29A9E6901BD@sbh16.songbird.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002080842460703bc1c8a2d@msapiro>

Jim Clauson, Breakthrough Systems wrote:
>
>My list has been running fine and archiving for 2+ years.  When we 
>hit 2010 -- no more archives.
>
>Location: 
>http://deming-network.org/mailman/listinfo/den.list_deming-network.org
>Archives: http://deming-network.org/pipermail/den.list_deming-network.org/
>Version:  2.1.12.cp3
>
>I have not seen anything on the Mailman site, nor in the GUI to resolve this.
>
>I have sent test messages and the distribution is working fine.  I 
>have held the 30 or so postings - waiting to find an archive fix 
>before I release them.


You say you are holding postings. Have any posts with 2010 dates
actually been delivered to the list?

I see in your December archive

 Last message date: Mon Dec 21 17:40:25 CST 2009
 Archived on: Mon Jan 4 04:13:14 CST 2010 

Perhaps you approved some December messages on Jan 4 and expected to
see them in the January archive and have been holding messages ever
since.


>I am not a programmer, do not have command line access, do everything 
>thru the GUI interface and do not have any access to the Pipermail 
>directory where the archives reside.


In any case, if the above is not the issue, and the list's Archiving
Options -> archive setting is Yes, you will have to contact your
hosting provider as there is nothing more that can be done without the
kind of access that you don't have.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  8 17:53:33 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 08:53:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.13 install dir permissions
In-Reply-To: <4B6F44BC.9020207@electronico.nc>
Message-ID: <PC195201002080853330765bc1c8a5e@msapiro>

me at electronico.nc wrote:
>
>Please excuse-me for this question but I haven't been able to find the 
>answer in archives ...
>I try to install 2.1.13 on a new server.
>(2.6.28-18-server #59-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jan 28 02:23:52 UTC 2010 i686 
>GNU/Linux)
>
>I have used the --prefix option to install mailman in a different 
>directory :
>./configure --prefix=/home/mailman
>
>I can't (and make install neither) mkdir in choosen directory.
>
>Here are the permissions for /home/mailman :
>drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4,0K 2010-02-08 08:18 mailman
>
>Here are the groups for the user 'serveur' (the one I launch make 
>install from) :
>id serveur
>uid=1000(serveur) gid=1000(serveur) 
>groupes=1000(serveur),4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),46(plugdev),116(lpadmin),117(sambashare),118(admin),20006(mailman)


What you are saying is that /home/mailman is group 'mailman', group
writable and searchable and SETGID and you are a member of the
'mailman' group yet you can't create subdirectories in /home/mailman.

The only thing that comes to mind is this from section 3.1 of the
installation manual

  You must also have permission to create a setgid file in the file
  system where it resides (NFS and other mounts can be configured to
  inhibit setgid settings). 

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From alexander at nautae.eti.br  Mon Feb  8 18:33:23 2010
From: alexander at nautae.eti.br (alexander at nautae.eti.br)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:33:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to avoid authorization request?
Message-ID: <20100208103323.11427iis1xwaweg4@www.nautae.eti.br>

Hi.

Every message that I sent using my mailman requires my approval (I  
have to go in "Tend to pending moderator requests").

So, is there any way to avoid that?

[]s
AlexanDER

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  8 19:06:20 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:06:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to avoid authorization request?
In-Reply-To: <20100208103323.11427iis1xwaweg4@www.nautae.eti.br>
Message-ID: <PC195201002081006200515bc1c8957@msapiro>

alexander at nautae.eti.br wrote:
>
>Every message that I sent using my mailman requires my approval (I  
>have to go in "Tend to pending moderator requests").


What is the reason Mailman gives for holding the message?

You can either address the reason directly or include the header

Approved: password

in the message to pre-approve it. 'password' is the list admin or
moderator password.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at bradakis.com  Tue Feb  9 04:26:34 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:26:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] post and smtp logs?
Message-ID: <4B70D5EA.1090606@bradakis.com>

Can anyone tell me at what point in the process of delivering
list messages does information get written to logs/post and
logs/smtp ?

Currently a message comes in, postfix hands it off to
mailman and the message is written to the qfiles/out
directory within a second or so.

But it isn't until two, maybe two and a half hours later
an entry for the message is made in the logs when the
message is finally sent out.  What is mailman doing in
that long interval?  The outgoing queue runner is running,
staying mostly idle.

Mail that is not routed through mailman behaves normally,
getting processed quickly.  Two+ hours seems like a long
time for mailman to be twiddling its thumbs.


mjb.


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  9 14:32:57 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:32:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] post and smtp logs?
In-Reply-To: <4B70D5EA.1090606@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002090532570921ff464d92@msapiro>

Mark J Bradakis wrote:

>Can anyone tell me at what point in the process of delivering
>list messages does information get written to logs/post and
>logs/smtp ?


They are written by SMTPDirect.py when the outgoing message has been
delivered to the MTA.


>Currently a message comes in, postfix hands it off to
>mailman and the message is written to the qfiles/out
>directory within a second or so.
>
>But it isn't until two, maybe two and a half hours later
>an entry for the message is made in the logs when the
>message is finally sent out.  What is mailman doing in
>that long interval?  The outgoing queue runner is running,
>staying mostly idle.


It's hard to say without more information. The log is not written until
delivery to the MTA has been completed for all recipients. If there
are not other messages in the out queue being processed ahead, my best
guess is the MTA is doing some kind of recipient verification on each
recipient and this takes a long time.

What does the smtp log entry say for time? Is it on the order of 9000
seconds?  What is in qfiles/out during this time? Is it a .pck file or
a .bak file? Is the out queue backlogged?


>Mail that is not routed through mailman behaves normally,
>getting processed quickly.  Two+ hours seems like a long
>time for mailman to be twiddling its thumbs.


OutgoingRunner is either delivering other messages or waiting for
responses from the MTA.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From don at donsunshine.org  Mon Feb  8 17:33:16 2010
From: don at donsunshine.org (Don Sunshine)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:33:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question
Message-ID: <004b01caa8dc$6afdcd50$40f967f0$@org>

I am a small ministry and I'd like to be able to send 1-2,000 people an
email once a month or so.  I use a PC running Vista and I have the lists in
a spreadsheet right now.  Will this work with your product?

 

Blessings to you...

 

Don

 

Phone - 610-898-4277

Cell - 607-346-3761

Email - don at donsunshine.org

www.donsunshine.org

 

"Let yourself be overwhelmed by the God you serve and you'll find that
nothing but Him is truly overwhelming." - Ron Hutchcraft


From phil at tallphil.co.uk  Mon Feb  8 16:40:44 2010
From: phil at tallphil.co.uk (Phil Ewels)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:40:44 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] .htaccess protection of archives
Message-ID: <4B70307C.6080307@tallphil.co.uk>

Hi all,

I'd like to protect my mailing list archives behind some .htaccess 
protection, but my mailman installation is a central one which serves a 
number of different websites.

I was thinking I could get around this by using a script to automate a 
log in to the archives and then scraping the results back to my 
.htaccess protected folder. I'm using GET variables to use the 
subscription page at the moment (adding &adminpw=PASSWORD onto the end 
of the url) and was wondering if there was anything similar that I could 
do with the archives?

Alternatively, if anyone can think of another way to get the archives 
behind a .htaccess wall I'd be keen to hear!

Thanks all,

Phil

From PubliceyeT at aol.com  Tue Feb  9 01:04:30 2010
From: PubliceyeT at aol.com (PubliceyeT at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 19:04:30 EST
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hi There If You Can Help!
Message-ID: <1a0cb.694b44e3.38a2008e@aol.com>

Hallo,
 I own this website _www.publiceyesite.org_ (http://www.publiceyesite.org)  
and the server is  _www.Emuma.Emuam.Net_ (http://www.Emuma.Emuam.Net)  , 
Lately there has  been a lot of problems in the mailing list like the web 
doesn't exits or there  is a bug. Sometimes the mailing list doesn't work at 
all. It is nice I  remembered to contact you to help clean any mess in it.
 
We use the web to communicate within East African Community largely  
Kenyans. Can You help please?
 
Thanks and Bye.
Patrick L Okeyo
551-208-8088

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  9 15:26:56 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:26:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question
In-Reply-To: <004b01caa8dc$6afdcd50$40f967f0$@org>
Message-ID: <PC195201002090626560859c004bd93@msapiro>

Don Sunshine wrote:

>I am a small ministry and I'd like to be able to send 1-2,000 people an
>email once a month or so.  I use a PC running Vista and I have the lists in
>a spreadsheet right now.  Will this work with your product?


It is possible to install and run Mailman on MS Windows, but given the
intricacy of doing so, it is probably not worth it.

I suggest you consider a hosting service for this list, some of which
are listed in our FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/Hg> and some of which
offer free or very low cost service to non-profits.

You might also consider something like Google Groups for this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  9 15:39:21 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:39:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] .htaccess protection of archives
In-Reply-To: <4B70307C.6080307@tallphil.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC19520100209063921060916f60836@msapiro>

Phil Ewels wrote:
>
>I'd like to protect my mailing list archives behind some .htaccess 
>protection, but my mailman installation is a central one which serves a 
>number of different websites.


Why not just use private archives? You could use a .htaccess file to
prevent access by URL if you really don't want public access at all.
Then all archive access would have to be through
Mailman/Cgi/private.py.


>I was thinking I could get around this by using a script to automate a 
>log in to the archives and then scraping the results back to my 
>.htaccess protected folder. I'm using GET variables to use the 
>subscription page at the moment (adding &adminpw=PASSWORD onto the end 
>of the url) and was wondering if there was anything similar that I could 
>do with the archives?


If for some reason Mailman's private archive authentication is not
satisfactory and you want to bypass the login page, you can append
?password=PASSWORD (where PASSWORD is a list admin or moderator or
site admin password) to any private archive URL.


>Alternatively, if anyone can think of another way to get the archives 
>behind a .htaccess wall I'd be keen to hear!


If I understood the desired end result, I might be able to suggest more.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  9 15:49:19 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:49:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hi There If You Can Help!
In-Reply-To: <1a0cb.694b44e3.38a2008e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100209064919037516f6074a@msapiro>

PubliceyeT at aol.com wrote:

>Hallo,
> I own this website _www.publiceyesite.org_ (http://www.publiceyesite.org)  
>and the server is  _www.Emuma.Emuam.Net_ (http://www.Emuma.Emuam.Net)  , 
>Lately there has  been a lot of problems in the mailing list like the web 
>doesn't exits or there  is a bug. Sometimes the mailing list doesn't work at 
>all. It is nice I  remembered to contact you to help clean any mess in it.


The web interface at <http://publiceyesite.org/mailman/listinfo> seems
to be working.

The problems you describe are things that will have to be discussed
with the hosting provider (<http://www.emuma.net/>). There's nothing
we can do to help without information that only the hosting provider
has access to. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brian at emwd.com  Tue Feb  9 15:56:23 2010
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:56:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hi There If You Can Help!
In-Reply-To: <1a0cb.694b44e3.38a2008e@aol.com>
References: <1a0cb.694b44e3.38a2008e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <01dd01caa998$0d459eb0$27d0dc10$@com>

> Hallo,
>  I own this website _www.publiceyesite.org_
> (http://www.publiceyesite.org)
> and the server is  _www.Emuma.Emuam.Net_ (http://www.Emuma.Emuam.Net)
> ,
> Lately there has  been a lot of problems in the mailing list like the
> web
> doesn't exits or there  is a bug. Sometimes the mailing list doesn't
> work at
> all. It is nice I  remembered to contact you to help clean any mess in
> it.
> 
> We use the web to communicate within East African Community largely
> Kenyans. Can You help please?
> 
> Thanks and Bye.
> Patrick L Okeyo
> 551-208-8088
> ------------------------------------------------------

Hi Patrick:

You probably need to contact your hosting provider, emuma.net regarding your
problems. They would be your first line of technical support. If they won't
help then I suggest finding another provider that will provide reliable
mailman hosting and support when you need it.

If you don't get satisfaction then check us out at
http://www.mailmanhost.com or http://www.emwd.com.

Regards,
Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com
dotList: http://www.mailmanhost.com

--------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.emwd.com/
Curious comments from a web hosting techie


From phil at tallphil.co.uk  Tue Feb  9 16:23:27 2010
From: phil at tallphil.co.uk (Phil Ewels)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:23:27 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] .htaccess protection of archives
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100209063921060916f60836@msapiro>
References: <PC19520100209063921060916f60836@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B717DEF.8030003@tallphil.co.uk>

I'd like to avoid using the standard private archives because that would 
require users to log in a second time, with a second username and 
password. I'm attempting to hide everything behind a single .htaccess wall.

The other reason is that the users are currently being signed up by an 
automated script, which does it silently, so they are not getting any 
welcome messages and will not know what their subscription password is.

I'll have a go using ?password=PASSWORD and see where I get to...

Cheers,

Phil




Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Phil Ewels wrote:
>> I'd like to protect my mailing list archives behind some .htaccess 
>> protection, but my mailman installation is a central one which serves a 
>> number of different websites.
> 
> 
> Why not just use private archives? You could use a .htaccess file to
> prevent access by URL if you really don't want public access at all.
> Then all archive access would have to be through
> Mailman/Cgi/private.py.
> 
> 
>> I was thinking I could get around this by using a script to automate a 
>> log in to the archives and then scraping the results back to my 
>> .htaccess protected folder. I'm using GET variables to use the 
>> subscription page at the moment (adding &adminpw=PASSWORD onto the end 
>> of the url) and was wondering if there was anything similar that I could 
>> do with the archives?
> 
> 
> If for some reason Mailman's private archive authentication is not
> satisfactory and you want to bypass the login page, you can append
> ?password=PASSWORD (where PASSWORD is a list admin or moderator or
> site admin password) to any private archive URL.
> 
> 
>> Alternatively, if anyone can think of another way to get the archives 
>> behind a .htaccess wall I'd be keen to hear!
> 
> 
> If I understood the desired end result, I might be able to suggest more.
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  9 16:33:44 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:33:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] .htaccess protection of archives
In-Reply-To: <4B717DEF.8030003@tallphil.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC195201002090733440437b3743b21@msapiro>

Phil Ewels wrote:

>I'd like to avoid using the standard private archives because that would 
>require users to log in a second time, with a second username and 
>password. I'm attempting to hide everything behind a single .htaccess wall.


OK, but I don't think dynamically modifying .htaccess can work. What if
you have two 'disjoint' users trying to browse different archives
concurrently?

Or were you thinking of per-list .htaccess modified by your subscribe
process?


>The other reason is that the users are currently being signed up by an 
>automated script, which does it silently, so they are not getting any 
>welcome messages and will not know what their subscription password is.
>
>I'll have a go using ?password=PASSWORD and see where I get to...


OK

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From phil at tallphil.co.uk  Tue Feb  9 16:45:59 2010
From: phil at tallphil.co.uk (Phil Ewels)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:45:59 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] .htaccess protection of archives
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002090733440437b3743b21@msapiro>
References: <PC195201002090733440437b3743b21@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B718337.8090700@tallphil.co.uk>

So everyone will be using the same login details for the .htaccess 
protection (it's a fairly small group of users who need to access these 
pages, who all trust each other and having one login for all saves a lot 
of hassle). So no dynamic modification needed (if I understand you 
correctly).

Users will be subscribed to a maximum of four lists, but I'd like them 
to be able to browse the archives of all of them. In other words, have 
the mailing lists behave as if they have public archive access, but 
behind a .htaccess wall to prevent Joe Bloggs from reading the lists.

This may get overly complicated, so I might just create a dummy account 
and publicise the login details on a page protected by .htaccess. Messy 
but easy.

Phil




Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Phil Ewels wrote:
> 
>> I'd like to avoid using the standard private archives because that would 
>> require users to log in a second time, with a second username and 
>> password. I'm attempting to hide everything behind a single .htaccess wall.
> 
> 
> OK, but I don't think dynamically modifying .htaccess can work. What if
> you have two 'disjoint' users trying to browse different archives
> concurrently?
> 
> Or were you thinking of per-list .htaccess modified by your subscribe
> process?
> 
> 
>> The other reason is that the users are currently being signed up by an 
>> automated script, which does it silently, so they are not getting any 
>> welcome messages and will not know what their subscription password is.
>>
>> I'll have a go using ?password=PASSWORD and see where I get to...
> 
> 
> OK
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  9 17:09:50 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:09:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] .htaccess protection of archives
In-Reply-To: <4B718337.8090700@tallphil.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1952010020908095006252a467c23@msapiro>

Phil Ewels wrote:

>So everyone will be using the same login details for the .htaccess 
>protection (it's a fairly small group of users who need to access these 
>pages, who all trust each other and having one login for all saves a lot 
>of hassle). So no dynamic modification needed (if I understand you 
>correctly).


Then I don't understand what "I was thinking I could get around this by
using a script to automate a log in to the archives and then scraping
the results back to my .htaccess protected folder." means.

Unless, maybe it means that the .htaccess only allows access by IP and
you'd be updating that.


>Users will be subscribed to a maximum of four lists, but I'd like them 
>to be able to browse the archives of all of them. In other words, have 
>the mailing lists behave as if they have public archive access, but 
>behind a .htaccess wall to prevent Joe Bloggs from reading the lists.


So just have public archives and put the .htaccess in either
/path/to/mailman/archives/private/ or
/path/to/mailman/archives/public/ - either one should do it as long as
you have AllowOverride explicitly or implicitly on the directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From phil at tallphil.co.uk  Tue Feb  9 17:43:19 2010
From: phil at tallphil.co.uk (Phil Ewels)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:43:19 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] .htaccess protection of archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010020908095006252a467c23@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010020908095006252a467c23@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B7190A7.5040309@tallphil.co.uk>

Ah, so this is what I initially thought, but the problem with that is my 
installation of Mailman - it is a central installation which serves 
lists to a whole range of different domains, so putting a .htaccess 
restriction in the archives folder would then stop access to the 
archives for all of my other websites.



Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Phil Ewels wrote:
> 
>> So everyone will be using the same login details for the .htaccess 
>> protection (it's a fairly small group of users who need to access these 
>> pages, who all trust each other and having one login for all saves a lot 
>> of hassle). So no dynamic modification needed (if I understand you 
>> correctly).
> 
> 
> Then I don't understand what "I was thinking I could get around this by
> using a script to automate a log in to the archives and then scraping
> the results back to my .htaccess protected folder." means.
> 
> Unless, maybe it means that the .htaccess only allows access by IP and
> you'd be updating that.
> 
> 
>> Users will be subscribed to a maximum of four lists, but I'd like them 
>> to be able to browse the archives of all of them. In other words, have 
>> the mailing lists behave as if they have public archive access, but 
>> behind a .htaccess wall to prevent Joe Bloggs from reading the lists.
> 
> 
> So just have public archives and put the .htaccess in either
> /path/to/mailman/archives/private/ or
> /path/to/mailman/archives/public/ - either one should do it as long as
> you have AllowOverride explicitly or implicitly on the directory.
> 

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue Feb  9 17:49:55 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:49:55 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] .htaccess protection of archives
In-Reply-To: <4B70307C.6080307@tallphil.co.uk>
References: <4B70307C.6080307@tallphil.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20100209164955.GR3357@amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 03:40:44PM +0000, Phil Ewels wrote:
> I'd like to protect my mailing list archives behind some .htaccess 
> protection, but my mailman installation is a central one which serves a 
> number of different websites.
> 
> I was thinking I could get around this by using a script to automate a 
> log in to the archives and then scraping the results back to my 
> .htaccess protected folder. 

How about setting the archive directory for each applicable list as it's own
<Directory> in a vhost config, I dunno, something like: (untested)

    <VirtualHost *:443>
        ServerName      archives.lists.example.org
        DocumentRoot    /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/

        Options         -Indexes

        <Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/listname>
            AuthType        basic
            AuthName        "Private Archive"
            AuthUserFile    /path/to/htpasswd.file
            Require         valid-user
            Options         +Indexes
        </Directory>
    </VirtualHost>

or perhaps use a glob and AllowOverrides (assuming Apache as your
httpd), or something like one of the Match directives.

Just as an idea, in production, you'll possibly want to lock-down a
virtualhost like that a bit more.

> Alternatively, if anyone can think of another way to get the archives 
> behind a .htaccess wall I'd be keen to hear!

Failing the hackish monstrosity above, you might find

    https://secure.mysociety.org/cvstrac/dir?d=mysociety/lists/web-admin/lists
    
(and elsewhere in https://secure.mysociety.org/cvstrac/dir?d=mysociety/lists)

useful if you're a coder.

-- 
``If the media object to a judgment or sentencing decision, 
  we suggest they focus their efforts on persuading the 
  Government to rectify the legal and policy framework.''
    (Lords' Select Committee on Constitution: Eleventh Report)

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  9 18:04:47 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:04:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] .htaccess protection of archives
In-Reply-To: <4B7190A7.5040309@tallphil.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC19520100209090447045328c42f34@msapiro>

Phil Ewels wrote:

>Ah, so this is what I initially thought, but the problem with that is my 
>installation of Mailman - it is a central installation which serves 
>lists to a whole range of different domains, so putting a .htaccess 
>restriction in the archives folder would then stop access to the 
>archives for all of my other websites.


So then put .htaccess files in archives/private/listname for each of
this domain's lists. These will work with public archives since
public/listname is just a symlink to private/listname.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Tue Feb  9 19:20:10 2010
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:20:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002090626560859c004bd93@msapiro>
References: <PC195201002090626560859c004bd93@msapiro>
Message-ID: <D60A4C5E-F8BF-4234-8AF3-A55CFF1CCC50@kreme.com>

On 9-Feb-2010, at 07:26, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> You might also consider something like Google Groups for this.

Eww! Ick. <spit>


-- 
TAR IS NOT A PLAYTHING
	Bart chalkboard Ep. 7F02


From m.boston-mccracken at healthnexus.ca  Tue Feb  9 15:39:31 2010
From: m.boston-mccracken at healthnexus.ca (Boston-McCracken, Meghan)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:39:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions
Message-ID: <8586DB900AAEF24798E6BB1F1951025301C320EF@sv004.OPC.ON.CA>

I am the administrator of the Maternal Newborn and Child Health Promotion (MNCHP) listserv.
 
1.	My info page says it is "temporarily disabled". How can I change this?
2.	A listserv member forgot her password. How can she get it? I thought it was through the info page?
 
Meghan
 
Meghan Boston-McCracken, MSW, RSW 
Bilingual Information Specialist / Sp?cialiste bilingue d'information
Best Start Resource Centre / Meilleur d?part 
Health Nexus Sant?
(formerly Ontario Prevention Clearinghouse/anciennement Centre ontarien d'information en pr?vention)
Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Telephone: (705) 254-3463 / 1-800-397-9567 ext. 2345 
Fax: (705) 254-7503
m.boston-mccracken at healthnexus.ca <mailto:m.boston-mccracken at healthnexus.ca> 
www.healthnexus.ca <http://www.healthnexus.ca/>   www.beststart.org <http://www.beststart.org/> 
 
Join over 1,600 service providers that are part of the 
Maternal Newborn and Child Health Promotion Network (MNCHP) 
to share and receive up-to-date information, guidance, and strategies. 
Subscribe at http://www.beststart.org/services/information.html
 
 

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Feb 10 03:15:43 2010
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:15:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions
In-Reply-To: <8586DB900AAEF24798E6BB1F1951025301C320EF@sv004.OPC.ON.CA>
Message-ID: <C79764DF.8BB61%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 2/9/10 7:39 AM, Boston-McCracken, Meghan at
m.boston-mccracken at healthnexus.ca wrote:

> I am the administrator of the Maternal Newborn and Child Health Promotion
> (MNCHP) listserv.

Listserv is the trademarked name for L-Soft's mailing list management
product. It is not the same as GNU Mailman . Please do not refer to a GNU
Mailman list as a "listserv" or use "listserv" as a generic term for mailing
lists or mailing list management software.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 10 03:19:12 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:19:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions
In-Reply-To: <8586DB900AAEF24798E6BB1F1951025301C320EF@sv004.OPC.ON.CA>
References: <8586DB900AAEF24798E6BB1F1951025301C320EF@sv004.OPC.ON.CA>
Message-ID: <4B7217A0.3020404@msapiro.net>

On 2/9/2010 6:39 AM, Boston-McCracken, Meghan wrote:
> I am the administrator of the Maternal Newborn and Child Health
> Promotion (MNCHP) listserv.
> 
> 1.	My info page says it is "temporarily disabled". How can I change
> this? 2.	A listserv member forgot her password. How can she get it? I
> thought it was through the info page?


1) Is this a Mailman list or a Listserv(r) list? If I go to
<http://www.healthnexus.ca/ehealth/index.htm> and click the "Click4HP"
link, I see the archives of a Listserv(r) list.

However, I am able to find a Mailman listinfo page for what appears to
be your "Mnhcp - Maternal Newborn Child Health Promotion Network" list
at <http://lists.beststart.org/listinfo.cgi/mnchp-beststart.org>.

That page says nothing about "temporarily disabled". If it did, This was
apparently something done by the admins of the server at
lists.beststart.org and is something you'd have to discuss with them. It
is not anything we at mailman-users at python.org can help with.

If by chance what you really mean is you went to your options page at
<http://lists.beststart.org/options.cgi/mnchp-beststart.org> and after
logging in, there was a note at the top of the page that said your list
delivery is disabled, scroll down to "Mail delivery", select 'Enabled'
and click the "Submit My Changes" button.

2) Your list member can go directly to
<http://lists.beststart.org/options.cgi/mnchp-beststart.org> or can get
there from <http://lists.beststart.org/listinfo.cgi/mnchp-beststart.org>
by clicking the "Unsubscribe or edit options" button. Once there, she
enters her email address in the top box and clicks the "Remind" button
at the bottom of the page to get a password reminder email.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From johnf at net2000.com.au  Wed Feb 10 07:16:36 2010
From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:16:36 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hiding sender info query.
Message-ID: <01j4n554s8k9hngclfhjbt8jehonp9b3d8@4ax.com>


Hi,

I have a mailing list that is set to "Require approval" for
membership. So if people aren't "Members" they cannot 
post.

If I select ..

"Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address
(Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields) "

(1) ...will all the members still be able to post as before ? Or will
it effectively make everyone "anonymous" and as I don't have 
a member called "anonymous" reject all posts ? 

(2) If I set the above and "Fred Smith" posted then would the name
"Fred Smith" appear anywhere in the email that other list members
receive from him ?

Can anyone here give me help on either/both questions please ? 
Ideally I would want list members to know who is posting but not 
their private email address.

I am using a cPanel setup.

Regards, John.

From fredytduran at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 04:20:23 2010
From: fredytduran at gmail.com (Fredy Edgardo Torres Duran)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:20:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me mailman
Message-ID: <96d156d91002091920l41c849a1sf5b2268c6b8a9bc4@mail.gmail.com>

I need help on the mailman mailing list.
I want to put in the recipient (To) mail subscriber and not the name of the
list, which option should I change and where it is configured.
thanks for your help

-- 
Atte.
Fredy Edgardo Torres Dur?n
www.hostingplusonline.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 10 16:07:15 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:07:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me mailman
In-Reply-To: <96d156d91002091920l41c849a1sf5b2268c6b8a9bc4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002100707150343791be366@msapiro>

Fredy Edgardo Torres Duran wrote:

>I need help on the mailman mailing list.
>I want to put in the recipient (To) mail subscriber and not the name of the
>list, which option should I change and where it is configured.
>thanks for your help


What you want is on the admin web interface Non-digest options page. If
you see a "personalize" option, set it to "Full Personalization".

If you don't see that setting, it is because the installation has not
enabled it. The site admin would need to put

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py. They may be unwilling to do this as it has potential
performance implications.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 10 16:23:46 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:23:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hiding sender info query.
In-Reply-To: <01j4n554s8k9hngclfhjbt8jehonp9b3d8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100210072346085950ecf389@msapiro>

John Fitzsimons wrote:
>
>I have a mailing list that is set to "Require approval" for
>membership. So if people aren't "Members" they cannot 
>post.
>
>If I select ..
>
>"Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address
>(Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields) "
>
>(1) ...will all the members still be able to post as before ? Or will
>it effectively make everyone "anonymous" and as I don't have 
>a member called "anonymous" reject all posts ? 


Yes, all members will be able to post as before. This only affects
outgoing mail and archives.


>(2) If I set the above and "Fred Smith" posted then would the name
>"Fred Smith" appear anywhere in the email that other list members
>receive from him ?


Not unless he put his name in the body of the email. That's the whole
point.


>Can anyone here give me help on either/both questions please ? 
>Ideally I would want list members to know who is posting but not 
>their private email address.


Mailman can remove this information from the message headers, but it
doesn't alter the body. The headers of the delivered posts will not
identify the sender in any way. To accomplish your ideal, you would
have to set the list anonymous and everyone who posted would have to
include their name, but not their email address in the message body,
but Mailman can't enforce this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From scarroy at sandia.gov  Wed Feb 10 17:09:54 2010
From: scarroy at sandia.gov (Arroyo, Steven C)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:09:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <01dd01caa998$0d459eb0$27d0dc10$@com>
References: <1a0cb.694b44e3.38a2008e@aol.com>
	<01dd01caa998$0d459eb0$27d0dc10$@com>
Message-ID: <23007C9EA744B142B93783A5FD36FDDA16B83DB819@ES05SNLNT.srn.sandia.gov>

Unsubscribe


From olivier.parisy at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 18:38:57 2010
From: olivier.parisy at gmail.com (Olivier Parisy)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:38:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim "Virtual Domains" and Mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002030822130625bb3dd7fe@msapiro>
References: <PC195201002030822130625bb3dd7fe@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B72EF31.9040805@gmail.com>

Le 03/02/2010 17:22, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :
> Olivier Parisy wrote:
>    
>> Clearly, the "*" rule is taking precedence on mailman delivery, which do not even seem to get the message.
>>      
>
> Make sure your mailman router in your exim.conf comes before the router
> that uses the virtual domain files.
>    

Thanks! I did not dare modifying routing options, but this definitely 
did the trick: the "*" rule does not "catch" mailing-lists messages anymore.

Just for my peace of mind: I reorganized the content of 
/etc/exim4/conf.d/router/ (simply by using "mv 450_mailman_aliases 
325_mailman_aliases", without any modification to the files content) from :

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  514 f?v 19  2005 00_exim4-config_header
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  648 avr 16  2005 100_exim4-config_domain_literal
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  556 jun 23  2006 150_exim4-config_hubbed_hosts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2974 nov  6  2005 200_exim4-config_primary
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  607 oct 13  2007 300_exim4-config_real_local
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  317 jan 21 23:17 350_exim4-config_vdom_aliases
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1594 nov  5  2006 400_exim4-config_system_aliases
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  409 ao? 25 22:39 450_mailman_aliases
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  878 f?v 19  2005 500_exim4-config_hubuser
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2104 ao? 16  2006 600_exim4-config_userforward
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  403 f?v 19  2005 700_exim4-config_procmail
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  323 f?v 19  2005 800_exim4-config_maildrop
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  897 oct  6  2007 850_exim4-config_lowuid
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  402 f?v 22  2006 900_exim4-config_local_user
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  472 f?v 19  2005 mmm_mail4root

to :
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  514 f?v 19  2005 00_exim4-config_header
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  648 avr 16  2005 100_exim4-config_domain_literal
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  556 jun 23  2006 150_exim4-config_hubbed_hosts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2974 nov  6  2005 200_exim4-config_primary
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  607 oct 13  2007 300_exim4-config_real_local
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  409 ao? 25 22:39 325_mailman_aliases
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  317 jan 21 23:17 350_exim4-config_vdom_aliases
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1594 nov  5  2006 400_exim4-config_system_aliases
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  878 f?v 19  2005 500_exim4-config_hubuser
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2104 ao? 16  2006 600_exim4-config_userforward
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  403 f?v 19  2005 700_exim4-config_procmail
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  323 f?v 19  2005 800_exim4-config_maildrop
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  897 oct  6  2007 850_exim4-config_lowuid
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  402 f?v 22  2006 900_exim4-config_local_user
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  472 f?v 19  2005 mmm_mail4root

Is there any adverse effect I should be aware of with respect to this 
reordering? I understand this is more of an exim4 question...

Regards,
Olivier.


From wcook at mycoachonline.com  Wed Feb 10 20:57:30 2010
From: wcook at mycoachonline.com (Wayne Cook)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:57:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivered to address
Message-ID: <B8A4831D-0B6C-4457-85EB-73B9CF894D82@mycoachonline.com>

What code do I use to put the recipients email address in the footer  
of the email with the list information?

Thanks
Wayne



From wcook at mycoachonline.com  Wed Feb 10 23:06:12 2010
From: wcook at mycoachonline.com (Wayne Cook)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:06:12 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivered to address
In-Reply-To: <4B731342.7050405@bradakis.com>
References: <B8A4831D-0B6C-4457-85EB-73B9CF894D82@mycoachonline.com>
	<4B731342.7050405@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <F13CA5E5-2D31-4B23-9E83-C61F299B29BD@mycoachonline.com>

I used that and get the following error:

Warning: The following illegal substitution variables were found in  
the msg_footer string: user_address


Any ideas?

Thanks
Wayne
On Feb 10, 2010, at 2:12 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote:

> Wayne Cook wrote:
>> What code do I use to put the recipients email address in the  
>> footer of the email with the list information?
>>
>
> In the non-digest options page, add the line
>
> %(user_address)s
>
> in the footer.
>
>
> mjb.
>
>


From wcook at mycoachonline.com  Wed Feb 10 23:43:39 2010
From: wcook at mycoachonline.com (Wayne Cook)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:43:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivered to address
In-Reply-To: <4B7331C9.5020107@bradakis.com>
References: <B8A4831D-0B6C-4457-85EB-73B9CF894D82@mycoachonline.com>
	<4B731342.7050405@bradakis.com>
	<F13CA5E5-2D31-4B23-9E83-C61F299B29BD@mycoachonline.com>
	<4B7331C9.5020107@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <9A11EA91-A584-4EAE-B992-2024D659F856@mycoachonline.com>

I don't have personalization turned on that I know of.  I can make  
changes to the footer though.

How do I turn personalization on?

Thanks SO MIUCH for the help!

wayne


On Feb 10, 2010, at 4:23 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote:

> Do you have personalization turned on?
>
> mjb.
>


From wcook at mycoachonline.com  Thu Feb 11 00:16:43 2010
From: wcook at mycoachonline.com (Wayne Cook)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:16:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivered to address
In-Reply-To: <4B733827.5090105@bradakis.com>
References: <B8A4831D-0B6C-4457-85EB-73B9CF894D82@mycoachonline.com>
	<4B731342.7050405@bradakis.com>
	<F13CA5E5-2D31-4B23-9E83-C61F299B29BD@mycoachonline.com>
	<4B7331C9.5020107@bradakis.com>
	<9A11EA91-A584-4EAE-B992-2024D659F856@mycoachonline.com>
	<4B733827.5090105@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <92CAF9C6-5C59-46C1-B636-DCE219B79545@mycoachonline.com>

Can't find it...but now that I know what to look for I will!

W


On Feb 10, 2010, at 4:50 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote:

> You have to have personalization turned on for user_address to work.
> It should be a setting on the non-digest options page, just above the
> boxes where you edit the header and footer information.
>
> mjb.
>


From wcook at mycoachonline.com  Thu Feb 11 00:24:18 2010
From: wcook at mycoachonline.com (Wayne Cook)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:24:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivered to address
In-Reply-To: <4B733827.5090105@bradakis.com>
References: <B8A4831D-0B6C-4457-85EB-73B9CF894D82@mycoachonline.com>
	<4B731342.7050405@bradakis.com>
	<F13CA5E5-2D31-4B23-9E83-C61F299B29BD@mycoachonline.com>
	<4B7331C9.5020107@bradakis.com>
	<9A11EA91-A584-4EAE-B992-2024D659F856@mycoachonline.com>
	<4B733827.5090105@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <EC6C8942-7956-412D-BDAB-1D5DDE869282@mycoachonline.com>

Looks like I've got to get into terminal to make these changes.

w


On Feb 10, 2010, at 4:50 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote:

> You have to have personalization turned on for user_address to work.
> It should be a setting on the non-digest options page, just above the
> boxes where you edit the header and footer information.
>
> mjb.
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 11 01:41:28 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:41:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivered to address
In-Reply-To: <EC6C8942-7956-412D-BDAB-1D5DDE869282@mycoachonline.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002101641280734d68e0aba@msapiro>

Wayne Cook wrote:

>Looks like I've got to get into terminal to make these changes.
>
>w
>
>
>On Feb 10, 2010, at 4:50 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote:
>
>> You have to have personalization turned on for user_address to work.
>> It should be a setting on the non-digest options page, just above the
>> boxes where you edit the header and footer information.


You have to set

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py in order to se the personalize setting in the GUI.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From me at electronico.nc  Thu Feb 11 02:45:16 2010
From: me at electronico.nc (me at electronico.nc)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:45:16 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] import 2.1.9 lists to 2.1.12
Message-ID: <4B73612C.8000400@electronico.nc>

Hi all,
I have had an old server crash, running Ubuntu Hardy and Mailman 2.1.9.
I have setup a new server, running Ubuntu Jaunty and Mailman 2.1.12.
Is there a way to import Mailman 2.1.9 files (lists, users, archives, 
etc ...) to the new 2.1.12 Mailman server ?
I have all the content of /var/lib/mailman from the old server.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Nicolas Canonne

From me at electronico.nc  Thu Feb 11 07:08:58 2010
From: me at electronico.nc (me at electronico.nc)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:08:58 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] import 2.1.9 lists to 2.1.12
Message-ID: <4B739EFA.4020109@electronico.nc>

I'm aware of this :
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055208.html

Should this work from 2.1.9 to 2.1.12 ?

Thanks in advance.

From wcook at mycoachonline.com  Thu Feb 11 13:45:47 2010
From: wcook at mycoachonline.com (Wayne Cook)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:45:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivered to address
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002101641280734d68e0aba@msapiro>
References: <PC195201002101641280734d68e0aba@msapiro>
Message-ID: <CCCECDAB-6E97-45AE-BD96-A77B0DDC8E8C@mycoachonline.com>

You guys are brilliant!

I now know enough to get under the hood and be dangerous :)

Thanks!
Wayne


On Feb 10, 2010, at 6:41 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Wayne Cook wrote:
>
>> Looks like I've got to get into terminal to make these changes.
>>
>> w
>>
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2010, at 4:50 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote:
>>
>>> You have to have personalization turned on for user_address to work.
>>> It should be a setting on the non-digest options page, just above  
>>> the
>>> boxes where you edit the header and footer information.
>
>
> You have to set
>
> OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
>
> in mm_cfg.py in order to se the personalize setting in the GUI.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>


From bob at steroidmicros.com  Thu Feb 11 01:16:14 2010
From: bob at steroidmicros.com (Bob Furber)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:16:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with "Tend to pending moderator requests"
Message-ID: <4B734C4E.8040000@steroidmicros.com>

Mailing list name:         aresst-exec at aresst.org
Administrator/Moderator:   aresst at aresst.org
ISP:                       arvixe.com

When I try to change the status of a pending email from "Defer" to 
"Accept" by checking "Accept" and then clicking "Submit All Data", I get 
a http error 404 "File not found" and "Oops! This link appears to be 
broken" showing "mailman adminb aresst-exec_aresst". When I return to 
the "Tend to pending moderator requests" page, the pending items are 
still present. In addition, I get an email from 
aresst-exec-bounces at aresst.org (sender: mailman-bounces at ant.arvixe.com) 
telling me:

  The Aresst-exec at aresst.org mailing list has 2 request(s) waiting for
  your consideration at:

	http://aresst.org/mailman/admindb/aresst-exec_aresst.org


The mailing list is hosted at aresst.org. But, to complicate matters, 
the aresst.org domain has had its CRECORD and A RECORD altered to 
redirect http://aresst.org and http://www.aresst.org to another website 
..without affecting emails (a_name at aresst.org). For instance, to access 
the CPanel, I must do so through http://alternate_domain.com/cpanel. I 
wonder if this is the root of the problem ..and, if I can do anything 
about it?

I should mention that I can successfully set up new mailing lists and 
add subscribers manually using "Membership Management - Mass 
Subscription". I just am unable to deal with "Tend to pending moderator 
requests".

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Bob

From cwu at asterpix.com  Wed Feb 10 20:42:50 2010
From: cwu at asterpix.com (Chiang Wu)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:42:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering out duplicate emails
Message-ID: <f9b72a821002101142j3fbf94cbk8425905a83b3c842@mail.gmail.com>

Hi. I was wondering if anyone knows a way to filter out, yet still archieve
new e-mails that have the same content as an already archived e-mail. An
example would be that I have e-mails coming in from a server that notifies
me of certain bugs/exceptions. Everytime this exception occurs, and e-mail
is sent to an address that is using mailman. Since the same exception can
occur, it'll send the same content as the previous exception, but since its
already in my inbox, I don't want another copy of it, yet I still want to
archive it.  I just want to know about new exceptions. Is there anyway to do
this?

-Chiang

From amie at 12web.co.cc  Thu Feb 11 01:30:17 2010
From: amie at 12web.co.cc (_!!!_ DesiAmie _!!!_)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:30:17 +0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello! Req: Mailing List Issue : Plz Help About This
Message-ID: <4B734F99.1070003@12web.co.cc>

*Detail Issue:


*Sir  i m sending emails to yahoogroups through (Mail Man) mailing list 
.. but my emails are not show or not delivered on some yahoogroups 
domain (like yahoogroups.com) page ... according to my observation if i 
add more than 10 yahoogroups in my mailing list so my email is not 
delivered to specially  (yahoogroups.com) domain  ... and if i add less 
than 10 yahoogrops in my mailing list so my emails is  delivered to all 
yahoogroups (like yahoogroups.com, yahoogroups.com.ca, 
yahoogroups.com.mx) included (yahoogroups.com) domain  ...

         Plz sir help me ... i m thankfull to you for this


                                                                         
                                                                         
                                 Thanx Rgard :

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 11 15:14:42 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:14:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] import 2.1.9 lists to 2.1.12
In-Reply-To: <4B739EFA.4020109@electronico.nc>
Message-ID: <PC1952010021106144201257c1643e7@msapiro>

me at electronico.ncwrote:

>I'm aware of this :
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055208.html
>
>Should this work from 2.1.9 to 2.1.12 ?


Yes.

It should even work for 2.0.x or even 1.0.x lists to the latest 2.1.x
version, although the mapping of some older list attributes to current
list attributes can be problematic, so in these cases, list settings
should be reviewed after moving, but any moving any 2.1.x list to a
newer 2.1.x installation should be clean.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 11 16:00:42 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:00:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with "Tend to pending moderator
	requests"
In-Reply-To: <4B734C4E.8040000@steroidmicros.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010021107004208755eb4e955@msapiro>

Bob Furber <bob at steroidmicros.com>
   Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:16:14 -0800
     To: mailman-users at python.org

>Mailing list name:         aresst-exec at aresst.org
>Administrator/Moderator:   aresst at aresst.org
>ISP:                       arvixe.com
>
>When I try to change the status of a pending email from "Defer" to 
>"Accept" by checking "Accept" and then clicking "Submit All Data", I get 
>a http error 404 "File not found"
[...]
>
>The mailing list is hosted at aresst.org. But, to complicate matters, 
>the aresst.org domain has had its CRECORD and A RECORD altered to 
>redirect http://aresst.org and http://www.aresst.org to another website 
>..without affecting emails (a_name at aresst.org). For instance, to access 
>the CPanel, I must do so through http://alternate_domain.com/cpanel. I 
>wonder if this is the root of the problem ..and, if I can do anything 
>about it?


Yes, this is the root of the problem because the URL for the POST
action on the admindb form is the correct one.

The list is still configured in the aresst.org domain so all URLs
including POST actions will be of the form
http://aresst.org/mailman/... which doesn't work.

I may be wrong, but I suspect it is impossible with cPanel to make a
list that works with its email domain different from its web domain. 

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 11 16:50:54 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:50:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering out duplicate emails
In-Reply-To: <f9b72a821002101142j3fbf94cbk8425905a83b3c842@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100211075054031235610dee@msapiro>

Chiang Wu wrote:

>Hi. I was wondering if anyone knows a way to filter out, yet still archieve
>new e-mails that have the same content as an already archived e-mail.


You would have to write a custom handler[1] to examine the content of
this mail and compare it to something and if it is a 'duplicate',
remove 'ToOutgoing' from the pipeline in this messages metadata.

Comparing it to the archive is problematic because archiving is
asynchronous with incoming message processing, and if two 'duplicates'
arrive close in time, the first may not be archived when you process
the second.

If you want to avoid truly identical content, this handler could keep a
small database of some hash of the content and its process time for
lookup as subsequent messages arrive. If the 'duplicate' content
differs in things like time stamps only, you could filter those before
hashing.



[1] <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 11 17:06:06 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:06:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello! Req: Mailing List Issue : Plz Help About
	This
In-Reply-To: <4B734F99.1070003@12web.co.cc>
Message-ID: <PC195201002110806060937eeddad2f@msapiro>

"_!!!_ DesiAmie _!!!_" wrote:
>
>*Sir  i m sending emails to yahoogroups through (Mail Man) mailing list 
>.. but my emails are not show or not delivered on some yahoogroups 
>domain (like yahoogroups.com) page ... according to my observation if i 
>add more than 10 yahoogroups in my mailing list so my email is not 
>delivered to specially  (yahoogroups.com) domain  ... and if i add less 
>than 10 yahoogrops in my mailing list so my emails is  delivered to all 
>yahoogroups (like yahoogroups.com, yahoogroups.com.ca, 
>yahoogroups.com.mx) included (yahoogroups.com) domain  ...


I suspect that this is a Yahoo groups feature that prevents
cross-posting to more than 10 groups.

Whether or not anything can be done in Mailman to work around this
depends on what Yahoo is doing.

If Yahoo is basing their decision solely on the RCPTs of a single
message, you might be able to work around this by enabling VERP in
Mailman or setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to something less than 10.

On the other hand, if when there are more than 10 Yahoo groups
recipients, up to 10 accept the post and the rest do not, I suspect
the filtering depends on Message-ID and since all deliveries of a post
from Mailman have the same original Message-ID, there's nothing much
you could do.

Why are you using a Mailman list to post to multiple Yahoo groups
anyway?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 11 20:32:39 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:32:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim "Virtual Domains" and Mailman
In-Reply-To: <4B72EF31.9040805@gmail.com>
References: <PC195201002030822130625bb3dd7fe@msapiro>
	<4B72EF31.9040805@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B745B57.7030304@msapiro.net>

On 2/10/2010 9:38 AM, Olivier Parisy wrote:
> 
> Thanks! I did not dare modifying routing options, but this definitely
> did the trick: the "*" rule does not "catch" mailing-lists messages
> anymore.
> 
> Just for my peace of mind: I reorganized the content of
> /etc/exim4/conf.d/router/ (simply by using "mv 450_mailman_aliases
> 325_mailman_aliases", without any modification to the files content) from :
> 
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  514 f?v 19  2005 00_exim4-config_header
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  648 avr 16  2005 100_exim4-config_domain_literal
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  556 jun 23  2006 150_exim4-config_hubbed_hosts
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2974 nov  6  2005 200_exim4-config_primary
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  607 oct 13  2007 300_exim4-config_real_local
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  317 jan 21 23:17 350_exim4-config_vdom_aliases
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1594 nov  5  2006 400_exim4-config_system_aliases
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  409 ao? 25 22:39 450_mailman_aliases
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  878 f?v 19  2005 500_exim4-config_hubuser
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2104 ao? 16  2006 600_exim4-config_userforward
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  403 f?v 19  2005 700_exim4-config_procmail
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  323 f?v 19  2005 800_exim4-config_maildrop
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  897 oct  6  2007 850_exim4-config_lowuid
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  402 f?v 22  2006 900_exim4-config_local_user
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  472 f?v 19  2005 mmm_mail4root
> 
> to :
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  514 f?v 19  2005 00_exim4-config_header
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  648 avr 16  2005 100_exim4-config_domain_literal
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  556 jun 23  2006 150_exim4-config_hubbed_hosts
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2974 nov  6  2005 200_exim4-config_primary
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  607 oct 13  2007 300_exim4-config_real_local
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  409 ao? 25 22:39 325_mailman_aliases
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  317 jan 21 23:17 350_exim4-config_vdom_aliases
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1594 nov  5  2006 400_exim4-config_system_aliases
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  878 f?v 19  2005 500_exim4-config_hubuser
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2104 ao? 16  2006 600_exim4-config_userforward
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  403 f?v 19  2005 700_exim4-config_procmail
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  323 f?v 19  2005 800_exim4-config_maildrop
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  897 oct  6  2007 850_exim4-config_lowuid
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  402 f?v 22  2006 900_exim4-config_local_user
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  472 f?v 19  2005 mmm_mail4root
>
> Is there any adverse effect I should be aware of with respect to this
> reordering? I understand this is more of an exim4 question...


Yes, it is more of an Exim question, but my answer is that this is no
problem at all.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From me at electronico.nc  Thu Feb 11 23:01:17 2010
From: me at electronico.nc (me at electronico.nc)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:01:17 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] import 2.1.9 lists to 2.1.12
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010021106144201257c1643e7@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010021106144201257c1643e7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B747E2D.7050303@electronico.nc>

On 12/02/2010 01:14, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> me at electronico.ncwrote:
>
>    
>> I'm aware of this :
>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055208.html
>>
>> Should this work from 2.1.9 to 2.1.12 ?
>>      
>
> Yes.
>
> It should even work for 2.0.x or even 1.0.x lists to the latest 2.1.x
> version, although the mapping of some older list attributes to current
> list attributes can be problematic, so in these cases, list settings
> should be reviewed after moving, but any moving any 2.1.x list to a
> newer 2.1.x installation should be clean.
>
>    
OK,
Thanks for your answer Mark,
It worked :-)

I have now troubles to connect to the Admin side of lists.
I have changed the password for every list using :
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/change_pw -a -p new_password
but I get a 'we hit a bug' error
error.log
admin(5594): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.12 -----]
admin(5594): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(5594): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(5594):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in 
run_main
admin(5594):     main()
admin(5594):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 198, 
in main
admin(5594):     mlist.Save()
admin(5594):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 570, in 
Save
admin(5594):     self.__save(dict)
admin(5594):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 525, in 
__save
admin(5594):     fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w')
admin(5594): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/bureau/config.pck.tmp.host.domain.tld.5594'
admin(5594): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(5594): sys.version     =   2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 
01:56:41)
[GCC 4.3.3]
admin(5594): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(5594): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(5594): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(5594): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(5594): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(5594): [----- Environment Variables -----]

(I have just replaced the real values by 'host.domain.tld' on line 
[Errno 13]

Should I apply the patch for Python 2.6 you've listed there :
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg54803.html
?

Thanks, once more, for your time.
Nicolas Canonne

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 11 23:24:17 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:24:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] import 2.1.9 lists to 2.1.12
In-Reply-To: <4B747E2D.7050303@electronico.nc>
Message-ID: <PC195201002111424170859de70646c@msapiro>

me at electronico.nc wrote:
>
>I have now troubles to connect to the Admin side of lists.
>I have changed the password for every list using :
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/change_pw -a -p new_password
>but I get a 'we hit a bug' error
>error.log
>admin(5594): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.12 -----]
>admin(5594): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(5594): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(5594):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in 
>run_main
>admin(5594):     main()
>admin(5594):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 198, 
>in main
>admin(5594):     mlist.Save()
>admin(5594):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 570, in 
>Save
>admin(5594):     self.__save(dict)
>admin(5594):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 525, in 
>__save
>admin(5594):     fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w')
>admin(5594): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
>'/var/lib/mailman/lists/bureau/config.pck.tmp.host.domain.tld.5594'


You have an ownership or permissions issue. bin/check_perms will
probably fix it, but Mailman's group is not able to create files in
the /var/lib/mailman/lists/bureau dorectory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From me at electronico.nc  Thu Feb 11 23:37:46 2010
From: me at electronico.nc (me at electronico.nc)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:37:46 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] import 2.1.9 lists to 2.1.12
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002111424170859de70646c@msapiro>
References: <PC195201002111424170859de70646c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B7486BA.6040506@electronico.nc>

On 12/02/2010 09:24, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> me at electronico.nc wrote:
>    
>> I have now troubles to connect to the Admin side of lists.
>> I have changed the password for every list using :
>> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/change_pw -a -p new_password
>> but I get a 'we hit a bug' error
>> error.log
>> admin(5594): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.12 -----]
>> admin(5594): [----- Traceback ------]
>> admin(5594): Traceback (most recent call last):
>> admin(5594):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in
>> run_main
>> admin(5594):     main()
>> admin(5594):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 198,
>> in main
>> admin(5594):     mlist.Save()
>> admin(5594):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 570, in
>> Save
>> admin(5594):     self.__save(dict)
>> admin(5594):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 525, in
>> __save
>> admin(5594):     fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w')
>> admin(5594): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>> '/var/lib/mailman/lists/bureau/config.pck.tmp.host.domain.tld.5594'
>>      
>
> You have an ownership or permissions issue. bin/check_perms will
> probably fix it, but Mailman's group is not able to create files in
> the /var/lib/mailman/lists/bureau dorectory.
>
>    
:-)
Thanks a
check_perms -f
fixed all !
(sorry not to have tought to launch it ... )

From wcook at mycoachonline.com  Thu Feb 11 20:04:22 2010
From: wcook at mycoachonline.com (Wayne Cook)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:04:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Emails?
Message-ID: <496C38BC-049C-44E5-85C2-E990FDBA31C0@mycoachonline.com>

I'm sending html email to my mailing list and some come out right and  
others come out like the attached file...anyone know what I have set  
wrong?

Thanks again
Wayne

-------------- next part --------------


From publicidad at redconexion.com.mx  Tue Feb  9 08:25:29 2010
From: publicidad at redconexion.com.mx (publicidad at redconexion.com.mx)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 01:25:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question mailing lists
Message-ID: <742dfb46d3f595d23cc4a0916688a25f@redconexion.com.mx>


hi,

i have a question, this is the situation

i created a mailing list, and i added about 2000 email directions,
including a hotmail address that i have, so i sent an email to the list,
with the intention to send the message to the 2000 users, and i dont know
if the 2000 users get the message, but the message never got to my
hotmail... so the question is, is there a limit of users that mailing lists
allow, or whar happened in that situation. and if there is no limit, when
does the 2000 users will get my email, at the very instant or 250 per hour
or how does the list works

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Feb 12 04:44:17 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:44:17 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  question mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <742dfb46d3f595d23cc4a0916688a25f@redconexion.com.mx>
References: <742dfb46d3f595d23cc4a0916688a25f@redconexion.com.mx>
Message-ID: <87iqa3w226.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

publicidad at redconexion.com.mx writes:

 > i created a mailing list, and i added about 2000 email directions,
 > including a hotmail address that i have, so i sent an email to the list,
 > with the intention to send the message to the 2000 users, and i dont know
 > if the 2000 users get the message, but the message never got to my
 > hotmail... so the question is, is there a limit of users that mailing lists
 > allow, or whar happened in that situation. and if there is no limit, when
 > does the 2000 users will get my email, at the very instant or 250 per hour
 > or how does the list works

This is a host configuration question.  Mailman just sends the post to
the host's mail transfer agent (MTA, such as sendmail, postfix, or
exim).  You need to talk to your system admin about this.

In general, mass mailings of that scale should complete within a
couple of hours from Mailman's point of view, and with the appropriate
host configuration can complete in a minute or so.  However, there are
many reasons why the delivery to the end recipient's mailbox may be
delayed for several hours.

To find out about the hotmail address, you need to look first in
Mailman's logs to make sure the post was sent, then in the MTA's logs
to find out whether hotmail accepted it.  This is usually not a
Mailman problem.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 12 04:45:58 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:45:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Emails?
In-Reply-To: <496C38BC-049C-44E5-85C2-E990FDBA31C0@mycoachonline.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002111945580187993b5035@msapiro>

Wayne Cook wrote:
>
>I'm sending html email to my mailing list and some come out right and  
>others come out like the attached file...anyone know what I have set  
>wrong?

[Moderator note: The attached file, stripped by content filtering, was
a TIFF image of what appears to be an Apple Mail view of a message
with 8 MIME parts shown as attachments and the only thing displayed
inline was the msg_footer.]


What you will see when you view this message with an MUA (mail client)
depends on the particular MUA. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9> for some more insight.

I am guessing you may have a msg_header defined for your list that
appears empty but actually contains some whitespace, and since your
original post was MIME multipart, Mailman just added the msg_header as
the first MIME part and your MUA sees this initial text/plain part as
the message body and then the subsequent parts as attachments.

In order to say anything more definitive we would need to see the "raw
message source" (option-command-U in apple mail) for this message. You
could remove most of the content of the various parts, but we need to
see the all the MIME headers and boundaries for all the message parts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From wcook at mycoachonline.com  Fri Feb 12 12:29:28 2010
From: wcook at mycoachonline.com (Wayne Cook)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:29:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Emails?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002111945580187993b5035@msapiro>
References: <PC195201002111945580187993b5035@msapiro>
Message-ID: <3E84EF19-2CAE-46F3-BEDD-C7907997B3AE@mycoachonline.com>

Here's a copy/paste of the source code of the message:

http://www.mycoachonline.com/emailsource.html



Thanks
Wayne

On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Wayne Cook wrote:
>>
>> I'm sending html email to my mailing list and some come out right and
>> others come out like the attached file...anyone know what I have set
>> wrong?
>
> [Moderator note: The attached file, stripped by content filtering, was
> a TIFF image of what appears to be an Apple Mail view of a message
> with 8 MIME parts shown as attachments and the only thing displayed
> inline was the msg_footer.]
>
>
> What you will see when you view this message with an MUA (mail client)
> depends on the particular MUA. See the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9> for some more insight.
>
> I am guessing you may have a msg_header defined for your list that
> appears empty but actually contains some whitespace, and since your
> original post was MIME multipart, Mailman just added the msg_header as
> the first MIME part and your MUA sees this initial text/plain part as
> the message body and then the subsequent parts as attachments.
>
> In order to say anything more definitive we would need to see the "raw
> message source" (option-command-U in apple mail) for this message. You
> could remove most of the content of the various parts, but we need to
> see the all the MIME headers and boundaries for all the message parts.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>


From Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil  Fri Feb 12 14:53:52 2010
From: Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil (Hicks, Robert CTR)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:53:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder password is wrong
Message-ID: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1046C713D@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>

I have a user that received his password reminder email. He went to login with the password in the email and he got:

	Error: Authentication failed.

I tried the email link and password as well and got the same error.

I tried adding " USE_CRYPT = 0 " to my Defaults.py based on a post I found by Barry W. but that didn't work.

I have moved this mailman installation to a new server (RHEL 5.4), newer mailman (2.1.12), and probably a newer Python (2.4.3).

Any ideas?

Bob


From Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil  Fri Feb 12 15:36:12 2010
From: Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil (Hicks, Robert CTR)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:36:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder password is wrong
Message-ID: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1046C71C1@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>

I added myself to the same list...went to my page sent a password reminder back to myself. It sent the same password [good]. I then used that password to login and manage my account and it worked [good].

Could this be a problem with older mailman vs newer mailman and the way it stores passwords?

Bob


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 12 15:44:54 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:44:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder password is wrong
In-Reply-To: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1046C713D@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <PC19520100212064454060986a15997@msapiro>

Hicks, Robert CTR wrote:

>I have a user that received his password reminder email. He went to login with the password in the email and he got:
>
>	Error: Authentication failed.
>
>I tried the email link and password as well and got the same error.
>
>I tried adding " USE_CRYPT = 0 " to my Defaults.py based on a post I found by Barry W. but that didn't work.


Adding things to mm_cfg.py/Defaults.py that aren't in Defaults.py to
begin with can have no effect, since if they weren't there, nothing
references them. Also, don't change Defaults.py; see
<http://wiki.list.org/x/fIA9>.

FYI, USE_CRYPT was a Mailman 2.0 setting and in any case applied only
to site, list admin and moderator passwords, not user passwords.


>I have moved this mailman installation to a new server (RHEL 5.4), newer mailman (2.1.12), and probably a newer Python (2.4.3).


Since you moved the installation, check the Received: headers in the
password reminder email and see where it came from. Also, check the
DNS entries for the host in the options link to see where it goes to.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From biozarica at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 09:55:45 2010
From: biozarica at gmail.com (Alejandro M.C.)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:55:45 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
In-Reply-To: <66703c751002120051w4ad5fcew93db23f698552398@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66703c751002120051w4ad5fcew93db23f698552398@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <66703c751002120055r1840d967od1ac793bf8c8c1df@mail.gmail.com>

hopes this didn't sound stupid...

I have created a list with mailman 2.1.13

when I try to send an email to that list from an address that don't belong
to the list, It needs to be approved first, is there any way to skip that
approval?

the idea is to be able to send a message to several members without type
each address... and as you can see, I'm new at this.

Thanks in advance...



-- 
Atte.
Alejandro Mart?nez C.
biozarica at gmail.com
movil: 09-89051806
Arica - Chile

From lcrm_87 at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 12 06:29:54 2010
From: lcrm_87 at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?B?THVpcyBDYXJsb3MgUmFtb3MgTWVq7WE=?=)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:29:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <87iqa3w226.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <742dfb46d3f595d23cc4a0916688a25f@redconexion.com.mx>,
	<87iqa3w226.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <BLU139-W122274120A5C0F08B3CBC88F4D0@phx.gbl>


what do i need to do to look in Mailman's logs to make sure the post was sent, or where do i access, or how do i do that...

thanks
 
> From: stephen at xemacs.org
> To: publicidad at redconexion.com.mx
> CC: mailman-users at python.org; publicidad_saltillo-request at redconexion.com.mx
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] question mailing lists
> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:44:17 +0900
> 
> publicidad at redconexion.com.mx writes:
> 
> > i created a mailing list, and i added about 2000 email directions,
> > including a hotmail address that i have, so i sent an email to the list,
> > with the intention to send the message to the 2000 users, and i dont know
> > if the 2000 users get the message, but the message never got to my
> > hotmail... so the question is, is there a limit of users that mailing lists
> > allow, or whar happened in that situation. and if there is no limit, when
> > does the 2000 users will get my email, at the very instant or 250 per hour
> > or how does the list works
> 
> This is a host configuration question. Mailman just sends the post to
> the host's mail transfer agent (MTA, such as sendmail, postfix, or
> exim). You need to talk to your system admin about this.
> 
> In general, mass mailings of that scale should complete within a
> couple of hours from Mailman's point of view, and with the appropriate
> host configuration can complete in a minute or so. However, there are
> many reasons why the delivery to the end recipient's mailbox may be
> delayed for several hours.
> 
> To find out about the hotmail address, you need to look first in
> Mailman's logs to make sure the post was sent, then in the MTA's logs
> to find out whether hotmail accepted it. This is usually not a
> Mailman problem.
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Prefiero un d?a sin coche que sin Messenger
www.vivirmessenger.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 12 16:14:59 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:14:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder password is wrong
In-Reply-To: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1046C71C1@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <PC19520100212071459078155bd6ec8@msapiro>

Hicks, Robert CTR wrote:

>I added myself to the same list...went to my page sent a password reminder back to myself. It sent the same password [good]. I then used that password to login and manage my account and it worked [good].
>
>Could this be a problem with older mailman vs newer mailman and the way it stores passwords?


No. User passwords are stored in cleartext.

This is more likely a case of the password having changed since the
reminder was sent. What happens if the users requests another reminder?

Note that "bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck" will show you the
lists passwords dictionary and all the users passwords.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 12 16:16:58 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:16:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <BLU139-W122274120A5C0F08B3CBC88F4D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC195201002120716580593d41ad1cb@msapiro>

Luis Carlos Ramos Mej?a wrote:
>
>what do i need to do to look in Mailman's logs to make sure the post was sent, or where do i access, or how do i do that...


Look in Mailman's smtp log. In a default Mailman installation, this is
/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 12 16:20:13 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:20:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
In-Reply-To: <66703c751002120055r1840d967od1ac793bf8c8c1df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002120720130640d41ad1cd@msapiro>

Alejandro M.C. wrote:
>
>when I try to send an email to that list from an address that don't belong
>to the list, It needs to be approved first, is there any way to skip that
>approval?


Go to the web list admin Privacy options -> Sender filters page. Near
the bottom of the page, set generic_nonmember_action to Accept.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 12 17:02:51 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:02:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Emails?
In-Reply-To: <3E84EF19-2CAE-46F3-BEDD-C7907997B3AE@mycoachonline.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002120802510046aba735a1@msapiro>

Wayne Cook wrote:

>Here's a copy/paste of the source code of the message:
>
>http://www.mycoachonline.com/emailsource.html


Which I downloaded and viewed with both TBird and Apple Mail and I see
an HTML defined page and the message footer. I don't see any problem,
and I don't see anything like the 8 MIME parts that showed in the
original screenshot.

The above file is exactly what I expect. A text/html message was posted
to the list and mailman sent this as a multipart/mixed message with
the original text/html as the first part and a text/plain part
containing the msg_footer as the second part.

I am sending Wayne my screen shots off list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From terri at zone12.com  Fri Feb 12 17:22:07 2010
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:22:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminder password is wrong
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100212071459078155bd6ec8@msapiro>
References: <PC19520100212071459078155bd6ec8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B75802F.50405@zone12.com>



Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Hicks, Robert CTR wrote:
>> Could this be a problem with older mailman vs newer mailman and the way it stores passwords?
> This is more likely a case of the password having changed since the
> reminder was sent. What happens if the users requests another reminder?

Well, to be honest, I suspect this is more likely a case of problem 
between chair and keyboard -- most of the time when my users have 
complained about this sort of thing, it turned out they were mis-typing 
their password or accidentally cutting and pasting a space with the 
password or some similar issue.

  Terri


From ndhert2 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 12:40:49 2010
From: ndhert2 at gmail.com (N dhert)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:40:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Membership administration
Message-ID: <e45531ce1002130340w28892e69j9282aac9b5231b6d@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way in mailman to disallow subscribing via the webpage, so that
subscriptions can be done by the list administrator?
I looked arround in the options of the mailman administrators webpage, but
seems I can't find it...

From tammy.george at acadiau.ca  Fri Feb 12 20:05:00 2010
From: tammy.george at acadiau.ca (Tammy George)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:05:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archives via email
Message-ID: <EF80AA494809654B9EE67C4DD650CC78120AEBD3@exchange.ad.acadiau.ca>

I've searched FAQs, how-to's, etc but couldn't find an anything
referencing this - is it possible to request a list's archives to be
sent via email?  For example, new employee needs copies of all emails
that have been sent to a specific list.  I thought I had done it before
but can't find any info on it.

 

Thanks.

 

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 13 16:30:35 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:30:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archives via email
In-Reply-To: <EF80AA494809654B9EE67C4DD650CC78120AEBD3@exchange.ad.acadiau.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1952010021307303500936ad65b00@msapiro>

Tammy George wrote:

>I've searched FAQs, how-to's, etc but couldn't find an anything
>referencing this - is it possible to request a list's archives to be
>sent via email?  For example, new employee needs copies of all emails
>that have been sent to a specific list.  I thought I had done it before
>but can't find any info on it.


The list's *nix mbox format archive can be downloaded. Depending on the
site's setting of PUBLIC_MBOX, there may be a link to this on the
list's archive table of contents page. Even if there is no link, it
can be retrieved by going to the private archive URL of the form

http://www.example.com/mailman/private/LISTNAME

and authenticating and then going to a URL of the form

http://www.example.com/mailman/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox

This mbox file can be imported or directly opened as a folder in many
mail clients.

This might satisfy your need, but Mailman has no facility to request
archived messages or archives be sent via email.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 13 16:37:25 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:37:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Membership administration
In-Reply-To: <e45531ce1002130340w28892e69j9282aac9b5231b6d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002130737250000909983d9@msapiro>

N dhert wrote:

>Is there a way in mailman to disallow subscribing via the webpage, so that
>subscriptions can be done by the list administrator?
>I looked arround in the options of the mailman administrators webpage, but
>seems I can't find it...


Set Privacy options... -> Subscription rules -> subscribe_policy to
"Require approval".

This doesn't disable requests from the listinfo page, but it does hold
any such requests for approval by the admin or moderator.

You can also follow the "Edit the public HTML pages and text files"
link and edit the "General list information page" to remove the
subscribe form, but this won't prevent people's requesting
subscription by email.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk  Sat Feb 13 16:37:04 2010
From: malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk (Malcolm Austen)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:37:04 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Membership administration
In-Reply-To: <e45531ce1002130340w28892e69j9282aac9b5231b6d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e45531ce1002130340w28892e69j9282aac9b5231b6d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u72ob2y2g14ka7@malcolm-rebuild>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:40:49 -0000, N dhert <ndhert2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Is there a way in mailman to disallow subscribing via the webpage,

Privacy Options >> Subscription Rules

There is an option to require moderator approval for unsub requests.

Malcolm.

-- 
Malcolm Austen, Oxfordshire, England

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Sat Feb 13 16:21:19 2010
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:21:19 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Formatting incoming mail in Mailman
Message-ID: <201002131521.o1DFLJtT021225@julie.lostwells.net>

I just sent a message to my list from a webmail account, and got an
empty text body in what was sent out from the list.  Sent a second
message to a user account which I read with elm to see what's in 
the message body.  

This is all of what comes through sendmail into the mbox:



<DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif; font-size:10pt;"><FONT
size="2"><SPAN
 style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">send a line or two of text to
see what t
his sob sends.<BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>

Note that it's HTML, but with no mime type indicator of any sort.

I have Mailman content filtering for this list set to filter the
content (yes), remove attachments that don't match standard mime
types, collapse alternatives, convert html to text, and discard 
messages meeting the filtering rules.

Up to now, we've used demime in the sendmail "post" alias pipe
to demunge non-plaintext posts, but I'd like to switch to Mailman
internal demunging.  

The above webmail formatting is the default new subscribers to that
ISP get.  We need to able to handle posts from total novices who 
send such stuff.   

Current Mailman is 2.1.9.  

What do we do?

Hank

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 13 17:56:52 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:56:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Formatting incoming mail in Mailman
In-Reply-To: <201002131521.o1DFLJtT021225@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201002130856520906e823e97e@msapiro>

Hank van Cleef wrote:

>I just sent a message to my list from a webmail account, and got an
>empty text body in what was sent out from the list.  Sent a second
>message to a user account which I read with elm to see what's in 
>the message body.  
>
>This is all of what comes through sendmail into the mbox:
>
>
>
><DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif; font-size:10pt;"><FONT
>size="2"><SPAN
> style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">send a line or two of text to
>see what t
>his sob sends.<BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>


Really? No headers at all? Or is this just some elm view of the message
body?

Look at the mbox with vi and look at everything from the "From "
separator through the end of the message.


>Note that it's HTML, but with no mime type indicator of any sort.
>
>I have Mailman content filtering for this list set to filter the
>content (yes), remove attachments that don't match standard mime
>types, collapse alternatives, convert html to text, and discard 
>messages meeting the filtering rules.


Presumably you are using pass_mime_types to remove the 'non-matching'
types. What's in pass_mime_types?

What is your HTML_TO_PLAINTEXT_COMMAND setting? Is this the problem
described at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-January/025373.html>?


>Up to now, we've used demime in the sendmail "post" alias pipe
>to demunge non-plaintext posts, but I'd like to switch to Mailman
>internal demunging.  
>
>The above webmail formatting is the default new subscribers to that
>ISP get.  We need to able to handle posts from total novices who 
>send such stuff.   
>
>Current Mailman is 2.1.9.  
>
>What do we do?


Show us the complete, raw message and we may be able to help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Sat Feb 13 19:33:00 2010
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:33:00 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Formatting incoming mail in Mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002130856520906e823e97e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <201002131833.o1DIX0S0024642@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Mark Sapiro has said:
> 
> Hank van Cleef wrote:
> 
> >I just sent a message to my list from a webmail account, and got an
> >empty text body in what was sent out from the list.  Sent a second
> >message to a user account which I read with elm to see what's in 
> >the message body.  
> >
> >This is all of what comes through sendmail into the mbox:
> >
> >
> >
> ><DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif; font-size:10pt;"><FONT
> >size="2"><SPAN
> > style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">send a line or two of text to
> >see what t
> >his sob sends.<BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
> 
> 
> Really? No headers at all? Or is this just some elm view of the message
> body?
> 
> Look at the mbox with vi and look at everything from the "From "
> separator through the end of the message.
> 
Here's the whole message from the spool file:

>From vancleef at wyoming.com Sat Feb 13 07:57:07 2010
Return-Path: <vancleef at wyoming.com>
Received: from omta0109.mta.everyone.net (imta-38.everyone.net [216.200.145.38])
	by julie.lostwells.net (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o1DEv6c8020571
	for <vancleef at lostwells.net>; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:57:06 -0700 (MST)
Received: from dm0104.mta.everyone.net (sj1-slb03-gw2 [172.16.1.96])
	by omta0109.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33D71288402
	for <vancleef at lostwells.net>; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 06:57:06 -0800 (PST)
X-Eon-Dm: dm0104
Received: by resin18.mta.everyone.net (EON-PICKUP)
	id resin18.4b721e04.106b6; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 06:57:06 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Message-Id: <20100213065706.B5C70750 at resin18.mta.everyone.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 06:57:06 -0800
From: <vancleef at wyoming.com>
To: <vancleef at lostwells.net>
Subject: See what's in this mail
X-Eon-Sig: AQLk58tLdr3CQFXGBwEAAAAB,10e73ece43724ae87d84f3c7c2c3384c
X-Originating-Ip: 216.67.170.236
Content-Length: 199

<DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif; font-size:10pt;"><FONT size="2"><SPAN style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">send a line or two of text to see what this sob sends.<BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>

(EOM implicit here)
> 
> >Note that it's HTML, but with no mime type indicator of any sort.
> >
> >I have Mailman content filtering for this list set to filter the
> >content (yes), remove attachments that don't match standard mime
> >types, collapse alternatives, convert html to text, and discard 
> >messages meeting the filtering rules.
> 
> 
> Presumably you are using pass_mime_types to remove the 'non-matching'
> types. What's in pass_mime_types?

(copied from the options page):
mixed
alternative
text/plain
text/html


> 
> What is your HTML_TO_PLAINTEXT_COMMAND setting? Is this the problem
> described at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-January/025373.html>?
> 
This may be part of the problem, as the line in Defaults.py has not
been overridden to point to where I have a lynx on the system.

I've added to mm_cfg.py the line:
HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND = '/usr/local/bin/lynx -dump %(filename)s'

which is the Defaults.py line change to point to the correct
directory.  

Verification: 
julie:vancleef:$ which lynx
/usr/local/bin/lynx

julie:vancleef:$ lynx -version
Lynx Version 2.8.5rel.1 (04 Feb 2004)
Built on solaris2.9 Dec 20 2006 19:54:22

julie:vancleef:$ ls -l /usr/local/bin/lynx
-rwxr-xr-x   1 root     other    1892964 Dec 20  2006
/usr/local/bin/lynx

Checking logs, I don't get a grep hit on "lynx" in either syslog or 
the Mailman logs.  Checking mailman/logs/error, I have a line
Feb 13 07:52:07 2010 (296) HTML->text/plain error: 256
This matches the timestamp on the incoming webmail post.

That build of lynx isn't used anywhere else on my system.  Are there
any other install considerations needed?  The e-mail you refenced
flagged lynx as a potential problem, but seems to be primarily about
a Linux distro and /tmp.  

I've restarted Mailman with the new line in mm_cfg.py, and will
retest.

Hank


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 13 20:34:25 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:34:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Formatting incoming mail in Mailman
In-Reply-To: <201002131833.o1DIX0S0024642@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201002131134250328131450a1@msapiro>

Hank van Cleef wrote:

>The esteemed Mark Sapiro has said:
>>
>> Presumably you are using pass_mime_types to remove the 'non-matching'
>> types. What's in pass_mime_types?
>
>(copied from the options page):
>mixed
>alternative
>text/plain
>text/html


The above is not correct. If you have a single word as a
pass_mime_types (or filter_mime_types) entry, it is the main type, not
the subtype. So, if you want to pass multipart/mixed and
multipart/alternative, that's what you need to put.

I recommend however just putting

multipart
text/plain
text/html

in pass_mime_types. These, together with collapse_alternatives = Yes
and convert_html_to_plaintext = Yes will ensure only plain text
reaches the list and will also accept the plain text from messages
that have a structure like

multipart/related
    multipart/alternative
        text/plain
        text/html
    image/xxx

which are produced by some Microsoft MUAs and possibly others. If you
don't pass multipart/related, that entire message will be filtered. If
you do pass all multipart and collapse alternatives, only the
text/plain part goes to the list.

Yow might also consider adding message/rfc822 to pass_mime_types if you
want to accept plain text or converted html from an attached message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Feb 14 08:54:06 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:54:06 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Formatting incoming mail in Mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002131134250328131450a1@msapiro>
References: <201002131833.o1DIX0S0024642@julie.lostwells.net>
	<PC195201002131134250328131450a1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87zl3cb6ch.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > multipart/related
 >     multipart/alternative
 >         text/plain
 >         text/html
 >     image/xxx
 > 
 > which are produced by some Microsoft MUAs and possibly others. If you
 > don't pass multipart/related, that entire message will be filtered. If
 > you do pass all multipart and collapse alternatives, only the
 > text/plain part goes to the list.

This is true; however, on my lists, multipart/related is a very strong
indication of image spam (using CSS to position the image over the
innocuous text).

From margaretmcseveney at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 14 01:57:54 2010
From: margaretmcseveney at earthlink.net (Margaret McSeveney)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:57:54 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Software
Message-ID: <C79CFB12.2929F%margaretmcseveney@earthlink.net>

Hi

I represent a small non-profit whose current list host is closing down and
we need to have a new List and archives hosting. Alternatives hosted lists
offered on the internet are all 150% more expensive than we pay now.

I came across your site and wondered if Mailman might be the best solution
as we also have our own hosting account separate from the List hosting. The
first thing I think of is technical expertise to install and configure the
List and also make our archives searchabe on a new server.
Our current List is in L-soft Listserv format and the archives can be
provided to us as a text file.

I would appreciate your advice

Many thanks

Margaret McSeveney

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Sun Feb 14 20:06:28 2010
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:06:28 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Forcing users to enter real name in listinfo page
	subscribe
Message-ID: <201002141906.o1EJ6Ss8020363@julie.lostwells.net>

I'm changing one of my mail lists in preparation for moving it to
another host which will be running Mailman with unmodified Python code
underlying.  One of my changes is to replace a custom listinfo page
which routes subscription requests outside Mailman to the standard
Mailman confirm-and-approve form.  We will be able to run with a
customized listinfo.html page.

The template listinfo.html line for entering the applicant's real name
is:
<td bgcolor="#dddddd" width="55%">Your name (optional):</td>

We would like to make that mandatory.  I can remove the (optional)
from the HTML, but is there a way in the HTML to make Mailman reject a
blank response?  

Hank

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 14 21:06:05 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:06:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Forcing users to enter real name in listinfo
	pagesubscribe
In-Reply-To: <201002141906.o1EJ6Ss8020363@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201002141206050625a8a3dfb6@msapiro>

Hank van Cleef wrote:

>I'm changing one of my mail lists in preparation for moving it to
>another host which will be running Mailman with unmodified Python code
>underlying.  One of my changes is to replace a custom listinfo page
>which routes subscription requests outside Mailman to the standard
>Mailman confirm-and-approve form.  We will be able to run with a
>customized listinfo.html page.
>
>The template listinfo.html line for entering the applicant's real name
>is:
><td bgcolor="#dddddd" width="55%">Your name (optional):</td>
>
>We would like to make that mandatory.  I can remove the (optional)
>from the HTML, but is there a way in the HTML to make Mailman reject a
>blank response?  


Assuming you need to do this in the listinfo.html template and not in
the Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py module that processes the form, You would
need to create a template that uses scripting (javascript) to require
that the real name entry be non-empty or pass other tests before
posting the form.

The difficulty with this is you cannot install or edit such a template
through the list admin "Edit the public HTML pages and text files"
function because the protections against XSS attacks won't allow
templates with scripting to be installed this way. Thus, you'd have to
install the template per the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hans.schou at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 15:15:55 2010
From: hans.schou at gmail.com (Hans Schou)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:15:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can not add user and confirm pending msg - no error
	message
Message-ID: <f9d54eff1002140615s264dbf9aq987e1be038a56461@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I have just installed mailman on CentOS Red Hat.

I have several errors but I think it is the same misconfiguration.

When I go to "Mass Subscriptions" and add a new email address, it does
not show up in the list.

When I accept pending messages, they are still in the pending list.

There is no error message shown on the web-page and none in
/var/log/mailman/error .

When I send a mail to the list, I do get message back that the message
is pending. List administrator does also get a mail about pending
messages. So sending and receiving msg is OK.

After "Mass Subscriptions" I can see some files are updated, like
/var/lib/mailman/lists/testlist/request.pck , so I guess write
permissons are OK.

Can someone point me to what I am missing?

rgds/hans

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 15 15:44:17 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:44:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can not add user and confirm pending msg - no
	errormessage
In-Reply-To: <f9d54eff1002140615s264dbf9aq987e1be038a56461@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002150644170562d1273fc3@msapiro>

Hans Schou wrote:
>
>When I go to "Mass Subscriptions" and add a new email address, it does
>not show up in the list.
>
>When I accept pending messages, they are still in the pending list.
>
>There is no error message shown on the web-page and none in
>/var/log/mailman/error .


The most likely reason for this is a web server redirect that is
causing loss of the data accompanying the POST of the form. This and
some other possibilities are covered in the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/ioA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hans.schou at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 19:56:00 2010
From: hans.schou at gmail.com (Hans Schou)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:56:00 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can not add user and confirm pending msg - no
 errormessage
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002150644170562d1273fc3@msapiro>
References: <PC195201002150644170562d1273fc3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1002151948280.6952@sko.w0.dk>

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Hans Schou wrote:
>>
>> When I go to "Mass Subscriptions" and add a new email address, it does
>> not show up in the list.
>>
>> When I accept pending messages, they are still in the pending list.
>>
>> There is no error message shown on the web-page and none in
>> /var/log/mailman/error .
>
>
> The most likely reason for this is a web server redirect that is 
> causing loss of the data accompanying the POST of the form. This and 
> some other possibilities are covered in the FAQ at 
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/ioA9>.

Thanks!

Why does mailman by default insert an URL with http when https 
required? And why is it so difficult to change? And why does RedHat 
not handle this during the installation?

For the record, here is what I did:

cd /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/

dumpdb config.pck | grep http | sed -re 
"s/^ *'([^']+)': 'http([^,]+),$/\1 = 'https\2/" > web_page_url.new.txt

config_list -i web_page_url.new.txt mailman


/hans
-- 
Horsebakken 78, DK-2400 K?benhavn NV, Phone: +45 2264 8020
-------------------------------------------------------------

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 15 20:40:52 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:40:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can not add user and confirm pending msg -
	noerrormessage
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1002151948280.6952@sko.w0.dk>
Message-ID: <PC195201002151140520078bb66f982@msapiro>

Hans Schou wrote:
>
>Why does mailman by default insert an URL with http when https 
>required?


How does Mailman know what you require?


>And why is it so difficult to change?


I don't think it is difficult to change. The FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/7oA9> gives the procedure.


>And why does RedHat 
>not handle this during the installation?


You'd have to ask RedHat for that.


>For the record, here is what I did:
>
>cd /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/
>
>dumpdb config.pck | grep http | sed -re 
>"s/^ *'([^']+)': 'http([^,]+),$/\1 = 'https\2/" > web_page_url.new.txt
>
>config_list -i web_page_url.new.txt mailman


The "correct" way to fix this is described in steps 2 and 3 in the
above referenced FAQ. Note that if you haven't changed
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in mm_cfg.py per step 2 of the FAQ, you will have
the same issue with every new list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lists at localguru.de  Mon Feb 15 21:23:06 2010
From: lists at localguru.de (Marcus)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:23:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] upgrade from 2.1.5 to 2.1.11 on debian
Message-ID: <1266265386.15083.15.camel@kramer>

Hi,

I'd like to upgrade from mailman 2.1.5 (self-build backport on an older
sarge installation) to 2.1.11 on Debian/Lenny. 

Before installing the mailman package on the new lenny box I've copied
the /var/lib/mailman/ directory from the old server (mailman 2.1.5) to
the new one. After that I've started an "aptitude install mailman" to
install mailman 2.1.11 on the lenny maschine. The installation didn't
show any errors and I can access all lists through the webinterface. Is
that the right way to upgrade or did I forget some migration stuff?

Thanks,
Marcus



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 15 22:01:47 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:01:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] upgrade from 2.1.5 to 2.1.11 on debian
In-Reply-To: <1266265386.15083.15.camel@kramer>
Message-ID: <PC195201002151301470703931f4cee@msapiro>

Marcus wrote:
>
>Before installing the mailman package on the new lenny box I've copied
>the /var/lib/mailman/ directory from the old server (mailman 2.1.5) to
>the new one. After that I've started an "aptitude install mailman" to
>install mailman 2.1.11 on the lenny maschine. The installation didn't
>show any errors and I can access all lists through the webinterface. Is
>that the right way to upgrade or did I forget some migration stuff?


That should work. It's more or less equivalent to an upgrade in place,
except you may have lost your mm_cfg.py depending on where things are
(i.e. is it in /var/lib/mailman or somewhere else?).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 15 23:06:49 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:06:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Software
In-Reply-To: <C79CFB12.2929F%margaretmcseveney@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201002151406490234d46f3e9b@msapiro>

Margaret McSeveney wrote:
>
>I represent a small non-profit whose current list host is closing down and
>we need to have a new List and archives hosting. Alternatives hosted lists
>offered on the internet are all 150% more expensive than we pay now.
>
>I came across your site and wondered if Mailman might be the best solution
>as we also have our own hosting account separate from the List hosting.
 The
>first thing I think of is technical expertise to install and configure the
>List and also make our archives searchabe on a new server.


Installing Mailman is non-trivial and requires root access for a few
key steps. Additionally, it has to be integrated with a mail server
and a web server. It is not difficult for someone with experience in
installing *nix software and with mail and web servers, but for
someone without those skills, it is quite daunting.

Searchable archives are a problem with Mailman. There are patches
availabe to integrate search engines with the archives, but they
require installation of some 3rd party search engine. Public archives,
but not private (list member only) archives can be indexed and
searched in Google and other search engines. Some Mailman hosting
services have implemented searchable archives.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/MoA9>


>Our current List is in L-soft Listserv format and the archives can be
>provided to us as a text file.


If this text file is in *nix mbox format, it can be imported directly
into the archives of a Mailman list using Mailman's bin/arch tool.

If it is in some other format, it would first have to be converted.

The FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/Hg> lists some Mailman hosting
services.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From garry.posey at ensembletheatreofchattanooga.com  Mon Feb 15 15:44:34 2010
From: garry.posey at ensembletheatreofchattanooga.com (Garry Posey)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:44:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posting lists on website
Message-ID: <FD1830693F7E4FF5824A3AB040E2745F@Garry>

I just created a list for my website www.ensembletheatreofchattanooga.com
<http://www.ensembletheatreofchattanooga.com/>  and would like to post it on
my website so that visitors to the site can join the list.

 

I edit and manage my site with Microsoft Expressions.  Is there a way to
post the sign-up list on the website?

 

Also if I wanted to take the mailing list I have now, currently in my
Microsoft Outlook, would I simply cut and paste?

 

Thank you

Garry Lee Posey


From MayaOhmMahatma at heartlights.org  Mon Feb 15 18:20:12 2010
From: MayaOhmMahatma at heartlights.org (MayaOhmMahatma)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:20:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HAVING A CHALLENGE
Message-ID: <4B79824C.5070508@heartlights.org>

I recently set up a new basic mailing list through my account with Blue 
Host (I have used mailman for several years without a problem).

When I set up the list I sent a "test" message. 

And I received the following:
*The CVP at fallrivervalleycvp.org mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting
for your consideration at:

    http://fallrivervalleycvp.org/mailman/admindb/cvp_fallrivervalleycvp.org
   
Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.

Pending posts:
From: citizenspatrol at fallrivervalleycvp.org on Thu Feb 11 11:15:26 2010
Subject: test
Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list*

I went into administrative control and tried everything I could to get 
rid of this message.  I tried rejecting, accepting, deleting, etc.  I 
even tried signing up the email address as a member.

BUT . . . I continue to get the message saying that my approval to sent 
the message is needed.

It's like when I request an action, the action does not complete.

Is there something I did wrong in the initial set-up that is causing this?

OR . . . can you delete that one message for me?

My account with Blue Host is under "Heart Lights Ministry" with a domain 
name of "heartlights.org".

The Mailing List I am referring to is for our Citizens Volunteer Patrol 
(CVP) and the list name is "Citizens Patrol"  with an address of 
cvp at fallrivervalleycvp.org

Thanks,
Whitney Murdock
(Maya Ohm Mahatma)
citizenspatrol at fallrivervalleycvp.org





From williamsh at aegisbiztech.com  Mon Feb 15 21:28:28 2010
From: williamsh at aegisbiztech.com (Heather Williams)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:28:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Message-ID: <8057C754C5577D4EA6BBF76320E64FFAC7117B@Server02.aegiscomputer.local>

I have a client that uses your software. One of their members on their
list serve is getting this error message in his emails from the list
serve and is unable to open the attachments. No other member is getting
this. Can you please help me to resolve this issue for them.

Heather Williams |Technical Services Represenative 
Aegis Business Technologies
Onsite & Remote Network Management | Application & Web Development |
Security and Recovery | Hardware Sales
www.aegisbiztech.com <http://www.aegisbiztech.com/>  | p: 850-422-2661 |
f: 850-422-0508 
 




From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 16 17:19:32 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:19:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posting lists on website
In-Reply-To: <FD1830693F7E4FF5824A3AB040E2745F@Garry>
Message-ID: <PC195201002160819320234372c09ca@msapiro>

Garry Posey wrote:
>
>I edit and manage my site with Microsoft Expressions.  Is there a way to
>post the sign-up list on the website?


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/hIA9>


>Also if I wanted to take the mailing list I have now, currently in my
>Microsoft Outlook, would I simply cut and paste?


Into the admin mass subscribe form - yes. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/YoA9>


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 16 17:28:10 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:28:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HAVING A CHALLENGE
In-Reply-To: <4B79824C.5070508@heartlights.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201002160828100468ee2dff5e@msapiro>

MayaOhmMahatma wrote:

>I recently set up a new basic mailing list through my account with Blue 
>Host (I have used mailman for several years without a problem).
>
>When I set up the list I sent a "test" message. 
>
>And I received the following:
>*The CVP at fallrivervalleycvp.org mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting
>for your consideration at:
>
>    http://fallrivervalleycvp.org/mailman/admindb/cvp_fallrivervalleycvp.org
>   
>Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
>pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.
>
>Pending posts:
>From: citizenspatrol at fallrivervalleycvp.org on Thu Feb 11 11:15:26 2010
>Subject: test
>Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list*
>
>I went into administrative control and tried everything I could to get 
>rid of this message.  I tried rejecting, accepting, deleting, etc.  I 
>even tried signing up the email address as a member.
>
>BUT . . . I continue to get the message saying that my approval to sent 
>the message is needed.
>
>It's like when I request an action, the action does not complete.


There appears to be some problem with the admindb web interface for
this list or possibly for all lists on this server. There is a FAQ on
this at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ioA9>, but this is something that will
have to be addressed by Blue Host. You need to contact them.


>Is there something I did wrong in the initial set-up that is causing this?
>
>OR . . . can you delete that one message for me?


I don't think it's anything you did wrong, and there's nothing we at
mailman-users at python.org can do. You need to pursue this with Blue
Host.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 16 17:38:32 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:38:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
In-Reply-To: <8057C754C5577D4EA6BBF76320E64FFAC7117B@Server02.aegiscomputer.local>
Message-ID: <PC1952010021608383205155c31e923@msapiro>

Heather Williams wrote:

>I have a client that uses your software. One of their members on their
>list serve is getting this error message in his emails from the list
>serve and is unable to open the attachments. No other member is getting
>this. Can you please help me to resolve this issue for them.


This is not an error message. It is a normal message  that occurs with
non-plain text attachments and plain text format digests. The
non-plain text attachment is removed and stored in the list's archive
and is replaced with the 'scrubbed' notice and a link to the stored
attachment.

There are multiple possibilities as to why the link doesn't open the
attachment. The archives may be private in which case the link goes to
a login page and the user can't get the attachment without logging in,
or the user's browser doesn't know how to open the file type.

If the user wants to receive the attachments in email from the list,
she can switch from digests to messages or swithch from the 'plain'
digest to the 'MIME' digest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From me at electronico.nc  Tue Feb 16 22:50:26 2010
From: me at electronico.nc (me at electronico.nc)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:50:26 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove messages from Mailman queue
Message-ID: <4B7B1322.6060709@electronico.nc>

Mailman 2.1.12

Hi all,

One email address was mistyped in a list and I receive tons of emails a 
day about :
Postfix SMTP server: errors from localhost[127.0.0.1]

I went to Mailman queue and here is the queue contents :

ls -Rlha /var/lib/mailman/qfiles
/var/lib/mailman/qfiles:
total 48K
drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 .
drwxrwsr-x  8 list list 4,0K 2010-02-08 21:14 ..
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-16 17:03 archive
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 bad
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-15 13:36 bounces
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-11 19:22 commands
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-16 17:03 in
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-08 21:40 news
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-17 08:35 out
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-17 08:35 retry
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-08 21:40 shunt
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-16 12:00 virgin

/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/archive:
total 8,0K
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-16 17:03 .
drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 ..

/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/bad:
total 16K
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 .
drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 ..
-rw-rw----  1 list list 4,6K 2010-02-09 12:00 
1265677201.538301+ff2998155195d0f6d06604e67777ba8ccfff2cf2.psv

/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/bounces:
total 8,0K
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-15 13:36 .
drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 ..

/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/commands:
total 8,0K
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-11 19:22 .
drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 ..

/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/in:
total 8,0K
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-16 17:03 .
drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 ..

/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/news:
total 8,0K
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-08 21:40 .
drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 ..

/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out:
total 8,0K
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-17 08:35 .
drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 ..

/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/retry:
total 180K
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-17 08:35 .
drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 ..
-rw-rw----  1 list list 4,8K 2010-02-17 08:35 
1265961379.78371+f52f95dafd795b376b6f236266a30656762e9312.pck
-rw-rw----  1 list list 4,8K 2010-02-17 08:35 
1265962377.1492419+ab429d4da967b4e5d73a49b9ad9c15da63938e4d.pck
-rw-rw----  1 list list 3,8K 2010-02-17 08:35 
1265963302.2198579+e23759d849358c41e5cb65734c68113e03940d53.pck
-rw-rw----  1 list list  53K 2010-02-17 08:35 
1266005255.3434069+05885e1413d12056b100ec76122a9ed15fe52aee.pck
-rw-rw----  1 list list 5,5K 2010-02-17 08:35 
1266181576.168088+374f21f5a8cbeb5d1b634327d8e37f145c3aca06.pck
-rw-rw----  1 list list  74K 2010-02-17 08:35 
1266183850.9198849+cae961d9f131124aec881c1aca55e7a2405d9f7c.pck
-rw-rw----  1 list list 5,1K 2010-02-17 08:35 
1266192566.7376809+2c441fed9eccdede5580771ad81d47a2870c6a66.pck
-rw-rw----  1 list list 1,5K 2010-02-17 08:35 
1266209411.1881809+530cd317167b0a37421ef71f51fd739dbaa4e58f.pck

/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/shunt:
total 8,0K
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-08 21:40 .
drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 ..

/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/virgin:
total 8,0K
drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-16 12:00 .
drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 ..


My question is : can I safely manually remove (rm) files from qfiles/bad 
and qfiles/retry or is there another way to proceed ?

Thanks in advance for your time.
Nicolas Canonne

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 16 23:29:51 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:29:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove messages from Mailman queue
In-Reply-To: <4B7B1322.6060709@electronico.nc>
Message-ID: <PC19520100216142951012552720470@msapiro>

me at electronico.nc wrote:
>
>One email address was mistyped in a list and I receive tons of emails a 
>day about :
>Postfix SMTP server: errors from localhost[127.0.0.1]
>
>I went to Mailman queue and here is the queue contents :
>
[...]
>/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/bad:
>total 16K
>drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 .
>drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 ..
>-rw-rw----  1 list list 4,6K 2010-02-09 12:00 
>1265677201.538301+ff2998155195d0f6d06604e67777ba8ccfff2cf2.psv
>
[...]
>/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/retry:
>total 180K
>drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-17 08:35 .
>drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 ..
>-rw-rw----  1 list list 4,8K 2010-02-17 08:35 
>1265961379.78371+f52f95dafd795b376b6f236266a30656762e9312.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 list list 4,8K 2010-02-17 08:35 
>1265962377.1492419+ab429d4da967b4e5d73a49b9ad9c15da63938e4d.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 list list 3,8K 2010-02-17 08:35 
>1265963302.2198579+e23759d849358c41e5cb65734c68113e03940d53.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 list list  53K 2010-02-17 08:35 
>1266005255.3434069+05885e1413d12056b100ec76122a9ed15fe52aee.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 list list 5,5K 2010-02-17 08:35 
>1266181576.168088+374f21f5a8cbeb5d1b634327d8e37f145c3aca06.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 list list  74K 2010-02-17 08:35 
>1266183850.9198849+cae961d9f131124aec881c1aca55e7a2405d9f7c.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 list list 5,1K 2010-02-17 08:35 
>1266192566.7376809+2c441fed9eccdede5580771ad81d47a2870c6a66.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 list list 1,5K 2010-02-17 08:35 
>1266209411.1881809+530cd317167b0a37421ef71f51fd739dbaa4e58f.pck
[...]
>
>My question is : can I safely manually remove (rm) files from qfiles/bad 
>and qfiles/retry or is there another way to proceed ?



The entry in qfiles/bad is something else. It is either an unparseable
message (likely spam) or a message that was supposed to be shunted but
for which shunting failed for some reason. You may be able to see the
message content with either bin/show_qfiles or bin/dumpdb pointed at
the file. In any case, there should be an entry in Mailman's error log
with timestamp "Feb  8 17:00:01" or possibly "2010-02-09 12:00" and
saying either "Skipping and preserving unparseable message:
1265677201.538301+ff2998155195d0f6d06604e67777ba8ccfff2cf2" or
"SHUNTING FAILED, preserving original entry:
1265677201.538301+ff2998155195d0f6d06604e67777ba8ccfff2cf2". In the
latter case, this may be preceded by another exception and traceback,
but it is more likely the former.

This message is no longer being processed by Mailman and can be rm'd if
you wish, although if the cull_bad_shunt cron job is running, the file
should be automatically removed the first time cull_bad_shunt runs
after it is 7 days old.

The messages in qfiles/retry can also just be rm'd. You can see the
undelivered recipients (probably just the one bad one) by running
bin/dumpdb against the files. If the message still has valid
recipients, as well as the invalid one(s), see
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/remove_recips>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 17 00:01:03 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:01:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove messages from Mailman queue
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100216142951012552720470@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC195201002161501030453527a5c08@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>The entry in qfiles/bad is something else. It is either an unparseable
>message (likely spam) or a message that was supposed to be shunted but
>for which shunting failed for some reason. You may be able to see the
>message content with either bin/show_qfiles or bin/dumpdb pointed at
>the file.


I neglected to mention, if you try to use bin/dumpdb on the .psv file,
you will need to specify '-p' to bin/dumpdb.

Also note that you have an underlying problem here in that Postfix is
doing domain or address verification during SMTP from Mailman and is
returning a 4xx (retryable) status for bad addresses. You should
return a 5xx status. I.e., set

unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550

in main.cf


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From me at electronico.nc  Wed Feb 17 00:16:50 2010
From: me at electronico.nc (me at electronico.nc)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:16:50 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove messages from Mailman queue
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100216142951012552720470@msapiro>
References: <PC19520100216142951012552720470@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B7B2762.5010200@electronico.nc>

On 17/02/2010 09:29, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> me at electronico.nc wrote:
>    
>> One email address was mistyped in a list and I receive tons of emails a
>> day about :
>> Postfix SMTP server: errors from localhost[127.0.0.1]
>>
>> I went to Mailman queue and here is the queue contents :
>>
>>      
> [...]
>    
>> /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/bad:
>> total 16K
>> drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 .
>> drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 ..
>> -rw-rw----  1 list list 4,6K 2010-02-09 12:00
>> 1265677201.538301+ff2998155195d0f6d06604e67777ba8ccfff2cf2.psv
>>
>>      
> [...]
>    
>> /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/retry:
>> total 180K
>> drwxrws---  2 list list 4,0K 2010-02-17 08:35 .
>> drwxrwsr-x 12 list list 4,0K 2010-02-09 12:00 ..
>> -rw-rw----  1 list list 4,8K 2010-02-17 08:35
>> 1265961379.78371+f52f95dafd795b376b6f236266a30656762e9312.pck
>> -rw-rw----  1 list list 4,8K 2010-02-17 08:35
>> 1265962377.1492419+ab429d4da967b4e5d73a49b9ad9c15da63938e4d.pck
>> -rw-rw----  1 list list 3,8K 2010-02-17 08:35
>> 1265963302.2198579+e23759d849358c41e5cb65734c68113e03940d53.pck
>> -rw-rw----  1 list list  53K 2010-02-17 08:35
>> 1266005255.3434069+05885e1413d12056b100ec76122a9ed15fe52aee.pck
>> -rw-rw----  1 list list 5,5K 2010-02-17 08:35
>> 1266181576.168088+374f21f5a8cbeb5d1b634327d8e37f145c3aca06.pck
>> -rw-rw----  1 list list  74K 2010-02-17 08:35
>> 1266183850.9198849+cae961d9f131124aec881c1aca55e7a2405d9f7c.pck
>> -rw-rw----  1 list list 5,1K 2010-02-17 08:35
>> 1266192566.7376809+2c441fed9eccdede5580771ad81d47a2870c6a66.pck
>> -rw-rw----  1 list list 1,5K 2010-02-17 08:35
>> 1266209411.1881809+530cd317167b0a37421ef71f51fd739dbaa4e58f.pck
>>      
> [...]
>    
>> My question is : can I safely manually remove (rm) files from qfiles/bad
>> and qfiles/retry or is there another way to proceed ?
>>      
>
>
> The entry in qfiles/bad is something else. It is either an unparseable
> message (likely spam) or a message that was supposed to be shunted but
> for which shunting failed for some reason. You may be able to see the
> message content with either bin/show_qfiles or bin/dumpdb pointed at
> the file. In any case, there should be an entry in Mailman's error log
> with timestamp "Feb  8 17:00:01" or possibly "2010-02-09 12:00" and
> saying either "Skipping and preserving unparseable message:
> 1265677201.538301+ff2998155195d0f6d06604e67777ba8ccfff2cf2" or
> "SHUNTING FAILED, preserving original entry:
> 1265677201.538301+ff2998155195d0f6d06604e67777ba8ccfff2cf2". In the
> latter case, this may be preceded by another exception and traceback,
> but it is more likely the former.
>
> This message is no longer being processed by Mailman and can be rm'd if
> you wish, although if the cull_bad_shunt cron job is running, the file
> should be automatically removed the first time cull_bad_shunt runs
> after it is 7 days old.
>
> The messages in qfiles/retry can also just be rm'd. You can see the
> undelivered recipients (probably just the one bad one) by running
> bin/dumpdb against the files. If the message still has valid
> recipients, as well as the invalid one(s), see
> <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/remove_recips>.
>
>    
Thanks Mark for your time !
I have just removed the retry/*.pck files and all is OK (no more errors 
from Postfix).
Nicolas Canonne

From madduck at madduck.net  Wed Feb 17 02:40:29 2010
From: madduck at madduck.net (martin f krafft)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:40:29 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Status of virtual mailing list management
Message-ID: <20100217014029.GA11097@lapse.rw.madduck.net>

Hey folks,

I only just returned to mailman after a long time away and found 3.0
in active development. Yay!

Looking at the docs at
http://packages.python.org/mailman/docs/README.html, I cannot find
any mention of virtual hosting. Will mailman 3 be able to host
foo at bar.com as well as foo at baz.org as two separate lists?

Thanks,

-- 
martin | http://madduck.net/ | http://two.sentenc.es/
 
"the truth is rarely pure and never simple. modern life would be very
 tedious if it were either, and modern literature a complete
 impossibility!"
                                                        -- oscar wilde
 
spamtraps: madduck.bogus at madduck.net
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 198 bytes
Desc: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/)
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100217/08e3cab6/attachment.pgp>

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Wed Feb 17 03:06:45 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:06:45 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Status of virtual mailing list management
In-Reply-To: <20100217014029.GA11097@lapse.rw.madduck.net>
References: <20100217014029.GA11097@lapse.rw.madduck.net>
Message-ID: <20100217020644.GD2936@amyl.org.uk>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 02:40:29PM +1300, martin f krafft wrote:
> Looking at the docs at
> http://packages.python.org/mailman/docs/README.html, I cannot find
> any mention of virtual hosting. Will mailman 3 be able to host
> foo at bar.com as well as foo at baz.org as two separate lists?

Yes.

As for a reference, see, perhaps lines 282-294 of NEWS.txt: 
    <http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/3.0/annotate/head%3A/src/mailman/docs/NEWS.txt>
    282     Virtual domains are now fully supported in that mailing lists of the same
    283     name can exist in more than one domain.  This is accomplished by renaming
    284     the lists/ and archives/ subdirectories after the list's posting address.
    285     For example, data for list foo in example.com and list foo in example.org
    286     will be stored in lists/foo at example.com and lists/foo at example.org.
    287
    288     For Postfix or manual MTA users, you will need to regenerate your mail
    289     aliases.  Use bin/genaliases.
    290     
    291     VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW has been removed, effectively Mailman now operates
    292     as if it were always enabled.  If your site has more than one domain,
    293     you must configure all domains by using add_domain() in your
    294     etc/mailman.cfg flie (see below -- add_virtual() has been removed).

(along with posts, passim, in this list's archive).

Excitement :)

-- 
"what was asked of the Director in this case was not a statement of
prosecuting policy but a proleptic grant of immunity from prosecution.
That, I am quite satisfied, the Director had no power to give.?
    -- Bingham of Cornhill, R (Pretty) v DPP [2002] 1 AC 800

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 17 03:06:54 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:06:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Status of virtual mailing list management
In-Reply-To: <20100217014029.GA11097@lapse.rw.madduck.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201002161806540421a5e2679b@msapiro>

martin f krafft wrote:
>
>I only just returned to mailman after a long time away and found 3.0
>in active development. Yay!
>
>Looking at the docs at
>http://packages.python.org/mailman/docs/README.html, I cannot find
>any mention of virtual hosting. Will mailman 3 be able to host
>foo at bar.com as well as foo at baz.org as two separate lists?


Yes. See "Wart removal" on the wiki page at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/vgAM>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From madduck at madduck.net  Wed Feb 17 03:48:24 2010
From: madduck at madduck.net (martin f krafft)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:48:24 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Status of virtual mailing list management
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002161806540421a5e2679b@msapiro>
References: <20100217014029.GA11097@lapse.rw.madduck.net>
	<PC195201002161806540421a5e2679b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20100217024823.GA13662@lapse.rw.madduck.net>

also sprach Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> [2010.02.17.1506 +1300]:
> Yes. See "Wart removal" on the wiki page at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/vgAM>.

Thanks.

I think it would be beneficial to add a note about Mailman 3 to the
main page under "current version", including a link to the wiki
page.

Ideally, there would also be a link from the launchpad project page.

Anyway, just suggestions that might prevent the next idiot like me
from pestering the list. ;)

Thanks,

-- 
martin | http://madduck.net/ | http://two.sentenc.es/
 
"truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because
 fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; truth isnt."
                                                       -- mark twain
 
spamtraps: madduck.bogus at madduck.net
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 198 bytes
Desc: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/)
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100217/ccd7ef22/attachment.pgp>

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Wed Feb 17 14:56:30 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:56:30 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002171545010.23057@data.home>

Hello,

I have two spam-related questions, one relevant to Mailman and one not. 
Apologies for the one that isn't, but I hope you will endulge this query.

A person has been spoofing Email addresses on a number of 
blindness-related Email lists this week.  I won't go into the particulars 
as it's probably of little interest to this list.  They're also using some 
quite sophisticated techniques to hide their identity and point of origin, 
and this is definitely outside the scope of this list.

My questions here are more focused at helpping list/site admins to block 
such mail.

1.  It's possible to use an IP address to block(at least temporarily) 
these messages.  If I put this IP address into a Mailman spam filter, will 
this be checked *before* checking whether or not the person is a member of 
the list?  I want to know if list admins can block these without bugging 
their site admins to do it upstream.

2.  One idea I came up with for rejecting spoofed mail is for the 
receiving SMTP server to somehow check if the sending one is an MX for the 
domain given in the From header.  Are there any obvious problems with this 
approach?  Is anyone actually doing this?  It seems so simple that there 
surely must be some reason why it's not done.

Geoff.


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Feb 17 15:05:35 2010
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:05:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002171545010.23057@data.home>
Message-ID: <C7A153CF.8C853%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 2/17/10 7:56 AM, Geoff Shang at geoff at QuiteLikely.com wrote:

> 1.  It's possible to use an IP address to block(at least temporarily)
> these messages.  If I put this IP address into a Mailman spam filter, will
> this be checked *before* checking whether or not the person is a member of
> the list?  I want to know if list admins can block these without bugging
> their site admins to do it upstream.

Probably better to do this in the MTA, not Mailman.

> 2.  One idea I came up with for rejecting spoofed mail is for the
> receiving SMTP server to somehow check if the sending one is an MX for the
> domain given in the From header.  Are there any obvious problems with this
> approach?  Is anyone actually doing this?  It seems so simple that there
> surely must be some reason why it's not done.

A bad idea. MX records identify servers that RECEIVE mail for the domain.
They say nothing about which servers can SEND mail for the domain. While in
many cases, they are the same servers, there is no requirement that they be
so and many large ISPs split the functions.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Feb 17 04:12:12 2010
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:12:12 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly
Message-ID: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A809163@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

Yesterday after 5 years of operation ou mailman application has "died" it seems to be barely running taking 3 or more hours to process lists...previous load was <0.2 now its around 1 with a python process absorbing 1 CPU constantly.

We are running on RHEL3-32bit and the errors are,

============

Error log for Mailman (vuwunicosmtp004.vuw.ac.nz:/var/log/mailman/error)

says:



RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded



Feb 17 07:48:26 2010 (13368) SHUNTING: 1266281245.229378+bd3f1d42e27ad38cf532b809460a0b0a8aef00e7



The last number is a message ID in Mailman queue

/var/mailman/qfiles/shunt/1266281245.229378+bd3f1d42e27ad38cf532b809460a0b0a8aef00e7.pck
============

We have a similar case via googling suggesting a DNS issue, however we have spent some hours checking DNS as well as the server and cant find any obvious fault.



http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-November/064166.html

Any ideas please?

Steven


From peet at hivemind.net  Wed Feb 17 07:56:49 2010
From: peet at hivemind.net (Peet Grobler)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:56:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery failed with code -1: (4,
	'Interrupted system call)
Message-ID: <4B7B9331.4070807@hivemind.net>

What exactly does the message in the subject mean? This is for messages 
delivered via SMTPDirect to local users on the machine itself. I don't 
see any remote addresses in smtp-failure for this domain.

Also - my out/ queue keeps filling up at times. I'm not sure if this is 
related. I'm using exim as MTA and configured everything according to 
the installation docs.

Can anyone tell me exactly what happens with messages in the out/ queue? 
Is it delivered serially to the MTA by the Outqueuerunner, and with a 
failure there's a retry time of several minutes? I'm trying to get my 
head around this to understand mailman better.

From getbackinc at optonline.net  Tue Feb 16 17:13:15 2010
From: getbackinc at optonline.net (Nancie J. Barnes)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:13:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces
Message-ID: <000901caaf22$f22bdc30$d6839490$@net>

 

My name is Nancie and I am the new business manager for Get Back, Inc.  I am
unsure how to handle the following e-mail that I received.  Is there anyone
who may be able to assist me?


-1 Mailman moderator request(s) waiting

					
	
Inbox

	X

	
					

 

https://mail.google.com/mail/images/cleardot.gifReply

 

https://mail.google.com/mail/images/cleardot.gif|

https://mail.google.com/mail/images/cleardot.gif



https://mail.google.com/mail/images/cleardot.gifhttps://mail.google.com/mail
/images/cleardot.gif


mailman-bounces at getbackinc.com


 to mailman-owner 

show details 9:00 AM (2 hours ago) 

	

The Mailman at getbackinc.com mailing list has -1 request(s) waiting for
your consideration at:

       http://getbackinc.com/mailman/admindb/mailman

Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.

 

 

Nancie J. Barnes

Business Manager

 

Get Back, Inc.

27 Main Street

Oakville, CT 06779

Phone: 860-274-9991

Fax:     860-274-9901

Nancie at GetBackInc.com

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 17 15:41:45 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:41:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <C7A153CF.8C853%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010021706414509533dddc066@msapiro>

Larry Stone wrote:

>On 2/17/10 7:56 AM, Geoff Shang at geoff at QuiteLikely.com wrote:
>
>> 1.  It's possible to use an IP address to block(at least temporarily)
>> these messages.  If I put this IP address into a Mailman spam filter, will
>> this be checked *before* checking whether or not the person is a member of
>> the list?  I want to know if list admins can block these without bugging
>> their site admins to do it upstream.
>
>Probably better to do this in the MTA, not Mailman.


I agree that it may be better in the MTA, but to answer the question,
yes, header_filter_rules are checked first.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 17 15:55:46 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:55:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly
In-Reply-To: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A809163@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC19520100217065546017162e39b99@msapiro>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>Yesterday after 5 years of operation ou mailman application has "died" it seems to be barely running taking 3 or more hours to process lists...previous load was <0.2 now its around 1 with a python process absorbing 1 CPU constantly.


Which python process - i.e.which qrunner.

Also look in Mailmans qfiles/* directories to see which one has a large
number of messages.


>We are running on RHEL3-32bit and the errors are,
>
>============
>
>Error log for Mailman (vuwunicosmtp004.vuw.ac.nz:/var/log/mailman/error)
>
>says:
>
>
>
>RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
>
>
>
>Feb 17 07:48:26 2010 (13368) SHUNTING: 1266281245.229378+bd3f1d42e27ad38cf532b809460a0b0a8aef00e7
>
>
>
>The last number is a message ID in Mailman queue
>
>/var/mailman/qfiles/shunt/1266281245.229378+bd3f1d42e27ad38cf532b809460a0b0a8aef00e7.pck
>============


How many of these are there? This may be unrelated. Is there a
traceback with the above error? What is it?


>We have a similar case via googling suggesting a DNS issue, however we have spent some hours checking DNS as well as the server and cant find any obvious fault.
>
>
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-November/064166.html


This probably isn't relevant. My guess (and it's only that) is you may
have a backlogged qfiles/out/ queue and the delay is in outgoing
runner. What's in Mailman's error log?

Note: In your RedHat package, Mailman's queue directory that I refer to
as qfiles/ is probably actually /var/spool/mailman/

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Feb 17 16:23:12 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:23:12 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002171545010.23057@data.home>
References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002171545010.23057@data.home>
Message-ID: <878war3mzj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Geoff Shang writes:

 > 2.  One idea I came up with for rejecting spoofed mail is for the 
 > receiving SMTP server to somehow check if the sending one is an MX for the 
 > domain given in the From header.  Are there any obvious problems with this 
 > approach?  Is anyone actually doing this?  It seems so simple that there 
 > surely must be some reason why it's not done.

It is being done, although not via the MX for the reasons Larry Stone
gives.  What you're looking for is call "SPF" or "DKIM" (these are
actually two different protocols, and I think with the standardization
of DKIM, SPF is probably dead).  The way DKIM works is that hosts
authorized to send mail from a domain are given special resource
records in their DNS which provide a public key, and then some portion
of the mail and/or headers is signed with an appropriate private key.

The problem is that setup is quite finicky, so most hosts not run by
well-paid professionals don't do it.  If all of your users are on
Google or Yahoo, you'll be OK, I guess.




From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 17 16:14:15 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:14:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces
In-Reply-To: <000901caaf22$f22bdc30$d6839490$@net>
Message-ID: <PC195201002170714150171401cb43a@msapiro>

Nancie J. Barnes wrote:
>
>My name is Nancie and I am the new business manager for Get Back, Inc.  I am
>unsure how to handle the following e-mail that I received.  Is there anyone
>who may be able to assist me?
>
>
>-1 Mailman moderator request(s) waiting
[...]
>The Mailman at getbackinc.com mailing list has -1 request(s) waiting for
>your consideration at:
>
>       http://getbackinc.com/mailman/admindb/mailman
>
>Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
>pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.


This is a bug in Mailman 2.1.5 that causes this notice with '-1'
requests to be sent. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/XoA9>.

Note: if you don't have access to this list, you will have to contact
the admins of the getbackinc.com server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 17 16:25:27 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:25:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery failed with code -1: (4,
	'Interrupted system call)
In-Reply-To: <4B7B9331.4070807@hivemind.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201002170725270140e2efd6a7@msapiro>

Peet Grobler wrote:

>What exactly does the message in the subject mean? This is for messages 
>delivered via SMTPDirect to local users on the machine itself. I don't 
>see any remote addresses in smtp-failure for this domain.


This message comes from the Python smtplib module and it means smtplib
was waiting for a response from the MTA and received something
(4,'Interrupted system call) that didn't begin with three digits.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9> for info on debugging the
"delivery failed with code -1" errors.


>Also - my out/ queue keeps filling up at times. I'm not sure if this is 
>related. I'm using exim as MTA and configured everything according to 
>the installation docs.
>
>Can anyone tell me exactly what happens with messages in the out/ queue? 
>Is it delivered serially to the MTA by the Outqueuerunner, and with a 
>failure there's a retry time of several minutes? I'm trying to get my 
>head around this to understand mailman better.


OutgoingRunner processes the out queue FIFO. If it encounters error
responses from the MTA, it treats hard errors as bounces and others
cause the message to be placed in the retry queue. RetryRunner will
requeue the message at 15 minute intervals for up to 5 days.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 17 16:34:30 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:34:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <878war3mzj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC195201002170734300031c88e68fd@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Geoff Shang writes:
>
> > 2.  One idea I came up with for rejecting spoofed mail is for the 
> > receiving SMTP server to somehow check if the sending one is an MX for the 
> > domain given in the From header.  Are there any obvious problems with this 
> > approach?  Is anyone actually doing this?  It seems so simple that there 
> > surely must be some reason why it's not done.
>
>It is being done, although not via the MX for the reasons Larry Stone
>gives.  What you're looking for is call "SPF" or "DKIM" (these are
>actually two different protocols, and I think with the standardization
>of DKIM, SPF is probably dead).  The way DKIM works is that hosts
>authorized to send mail from a domain are given special resource
>records in their DNS which provide a public key, and then some portion
>of the mail and/or headers is signed with an appropriate private key.


There are still sites that check SPF and will reject mail for an SPF
hardfail.

Note, if you run SpamAssassin, there is a Botnet module[1] available
that will check the MTA that delivered to the trusted local network
has full circle DNS and a host name that doesn't look like a 'home
network' name.

[1] <http://people.ucsc.edu/~jrudd/spamassassin/Botnet.tar>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rob.macgregor at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 16:51:49 2010
From: rob.macgregor at gmail.com (Rob MacGregor)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:51:49 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <878war3mzj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002171545010.23057@data.home>
	<878war3mzj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <43ea8d071002170751m74a32b65ge0e896832336d4f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 15:23, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
> Geoff Shang writes:
>
> It is being done, although not via the MX for the reasons Larry Stone
> gives. ?What you're looking for is call "SPF" or "DKIM" (these are
> actually two different protocols, and I think with the standardization
> of DKIM, SPF is probably dead).

That would be a surprise to the SPF folks, and the steady progression
of folks who're implementing it ;)

SPF and DKIM solve 2 different parts of the problem of forged emails.
Neither provides complete coverage, together they work well.

-- 
                 Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
      Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
        doesn't become a monster.                  Friedrich Nietzsche

From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Feb 17 20:18:26 2010
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:18:26 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100217065546017162e39b99@msapiro>
References: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A809163@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<PC19520100217065546017162e39b99@msapiro>
Message-ID: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A80921D@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

Is there a way forward? I have to hand this on as I have to fix something else...will come back to it in about 4 hours from now....

regards

Steven

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Thursday, 18 February 2010 3:56 a.m.
To: Steven Jones; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>Yesterday after 5 years of operation ou mailman application has "died" it seems to be barely running taking 3 or more hours to process lists...previous load was <0.2 now its around 1 with a python process absorbing 1 CPU constantly.


Which python process - i.e.which qrunner.

============
how do I identify such a "qrunner?"
============

Also look in Mailmans qfiles/* directories to see which one has a large
number of messages.

==========
its empty,

[root at vuwunicosmtp004 mailman]# cd /var/spool/mailman/
[root at vuwunicosmtp004 mailman]# ls -al
total 12
drwxr-xr-x    3 root     root         4096 Sep  6  2005 .
drwxr-xr-x   16 root     root         4096 Feb 17 15:12 ..
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Mar 22  2007 qfiles
[root at vuwunicosmtp004 mailman]# cd qfiles/
[root at vuwunicosmtp004 qfiles]# ls -al
total 8
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Mar 22  2007 .
drwxr-xr-x    3 root     root         4096 Sep  6  2005 ..
[root at vuwunicosmtp004 qfiles]# ls -al
total 8
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Mar 22  2007 .
drwxr-xr-x    3 root     root         4096 Sep  6  2005 ..
[root at vuwunicosmtp004 qfiles]#

==========

>We are running on RHEL3-32bit and the errors are,
>
>============
>
>Error log for Mailman (vuwunicosmtp004.vuw.ac.nz:/var/log/mailman/error)
>
>says:
>
>
>
>RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
>
>
>
>Feb 17 07:48:26 2010 (13368) SHUNTING: 1266281245.229378+bd3f1d42e27ad38cf532b809460a0b0a8aef00e7
>
>
>
>The last number is a message ID in Mailman queue
>
>/var/mailman/qfiles/shunt/1266281245.229378+bd3f1d42e27ad38cf532b809460a0b0a8aef00e7.pck
>============


How many of these are there?

========
seems a lot.....

The error log is significantly bigger because of them,

[root at vuwunicosmtp004 mailman]# pwd
/var/log/mailman
[root at vuwunicosmtp004 mailman]# ls -l
total 81400
8><-----
-rw-rw-r--    1 root     mailman  79321195 Feb 18 08:05 error
-rw-rw-r--    1 root     mailman      6997 Feb 13 16:42 error.1
-rw-rw-r--    1 root     mailman     11798 Feb  7 04:02 error.2
-rw-rw-r--    1 root     mailman      7142 Jan 31 03:19 error.3
-rw-rw-r--    1 root     mailman      3313 Jan 24 01:54 error.4
8><-----
========


This may be unrelated. Is there a
traceback with the above error? What is it?

===========
this?
===========
File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded

Feb 18 08:05:23 2010 (22075) SHUNTING: 1266281265.9402289+108ada57b8e680da231d7a75a9bf50e08bbce3fe
[root at vuwunicosmtp004 mailman]#

===========
>We have a similar case via googling suggesting a DNS issue, however we have spent some hours checking DNS as well as the server and cant find any obvious fault.
>
>
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-November/064166.html


This probably isn't relevant. My guess (and it's only that) is you may
have a backlogged qfiles/out/ queue and the delay is in outgoing
runner. What's in Mailman's error log?

Note: In your RedHat package, Mailman's queue directory that I refer to
as qfiles/ is probably actually /var/spool/mailman/

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Wed Feb 17 23:21:22 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:21:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Status of virtual mailing list management
In-Reply-To: <20100217014029.GA11097@lapse.rw.madduck.net>
References: <20100217014029.GA11097@lapse.rw.madduck.net>
Message-ID: <8122F4DB-D85D-4FA5-88D8-051502D34F47@python.org>

On Feb 16, 2010, at 8:40 PM, martin f krafft wrote:

> I only just returned to mailman after a long time away and found 3.0
> in active development. Yay!

Come join us over in mailman-developers! :)

> Looking at the docs at
> http://packages.python.org/mailman/docs/README.html, I cannot find
> any mention of virtual hosting. Will mailman 3 be able to host
> foo at bar.com as well as foo at baz.org as two separate lists?

Yes.  The key change is that lists are identified by their posting address (a.k.a. List-Post, a.k.a. fully-qualified list name), e.g. foo at bar.com and foo at baz.org.  There's no place now where the list is identified internally as just 'foo'.

'bin/mailman create' is the command in MM3 to create new mailing lists.  You have to configure Mailman to know about the domain before you can create a mailing list in that domain, but you can take a shortcut by adding the -d option to that command.

-Barry


From madduck at madduck.net  Wed Feb 17 23:58:27 2010
From: madduck at madduck.net (martin f krafft)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:58:27 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Status of virtual mailing list management
In-Reply-To: <8122F4DB-D85D-4FA5-88D8-051502D34F47@python.org>
References: <20100217014029.GA11097@lapse.rw.madduck.net>
	<8122F4DB-D85D-4FA5-88D8-051502D34F47@python.org>
Message-ID: <20100217225827.GB1017@lapse.rw.madduck.net>

also sprach Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> [2010.02.18.1121 +1300]:
> > Looking at the docs at
> > http://packages.python.org/mailman/docs/README.html, I cannot
> > find any mention of virtual hosting. Will mailman 3 be able to
> > host foo at bar.com as well as foo at baz.org as two separate lists?
> 
> Yes.  The key change is that lists are identified by their posting
> address (a.k.a. List-Post, a.k.a. fully-qualified list name), e.g.
> foo at bar.com and foo at baz.org.  There's no place now where the list
> is identified internally as just 'foo'.

I've had a hackish feature branch that did exactly this in place for
years, actually. I am really glad to see this hit mainline.

In fact, I am so glad that I am considering setting up a new
listserv just for test-driving mailman 3 with some real lists.

Thanks!

-- 
martin | http://madduck.net/ | http://two.sentenc.es/
 
this space intentionally left occupied.
 
spamtraps: madduck.bogus at madduck.net
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 198 bytes
Desc: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/)
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100218/f51eef82/attachment.pgp>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 18 00:46:28 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:46:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly
In-Reply-To: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A80921D@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC195201002171546280281681fbbb5@msapiro>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>Is there a way forward? I have to hand this on as I have to fix something else...will come back to it in about 4 hours from now....
>


OK, As you see, I too have been off line for a while.


>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
>Sent: Thursday, 18 February 2010 3:56 a.m.
>To: Steven Jones; mailman-users at python.org
>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly
>
>Steven Jones wrote:
>>
>>Yesterday after 5 years of operation ou mailman application has "died" it seems to be barely running taking 3 or more hours to process lists...previous load was <0.2 now its around 1 with a python process absorbing 1 CPU constantly.
>
>
>Which python process - i.e.which qrunner.
>
>============
>how do I identify such a "qrunner?"
>============


  ps -fwu mailman

will list all the Mailman processes and the commands that invoked them
which include the qrunner names.


>Also look in Mailmans qfiles/* directories to see which one has a large
>number of messages.
>
>==========
>its empty,
>
>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 mailman]# cd /var/spool/mailman/
>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 mailman]# ls -al
>total 12
>drwxr-xr-x    3 root     root         4096 Sep  6  2005 .
>drwxr-xr-x   16 root     root         4096 Feb 17 15:12 ..
>drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Mar 22  2007 qfiles
>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 mailman]# cd qfiles/
>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 qfiles]# ls -al
>total 8
>drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Mar 22  2007 .
>drwxr-xr-x    3 root     root         4096 Sep  6  2005 ..
>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 qfiles]# ls -al
>total 8
>drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Mar 22  2007 .
>drwxr-xr-x    3 root     root         4096 Sep  6  2005 ..
>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 qfiles]#
>
>==========


Then your qfiles are somewhere else. Even if the queues are empty,
there will still be a directory per queue

archive  bad  bounces  commands  in  news  out  retry  shunt  virgin

(well maybe not 'bad' but all the others)


>
>>We are running on RHEL3-32bit and the errors are,
>>
>>============
>>
>>Error log for Mailman (vuwunicosmtp004.vuw.ac.nz:/var/log/mailman/error)
>>
>>says:
>>
>>
>>
>>RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
>>
>>
>>
>>Feb 17 07:48:26 2010 (13368) SHUNTING: 1266281245.229378+bd3f1d42e27ad38cf532b809460a0b0a8aef00e7
>>
>>
>>
>>The last number is a message ID in Mailman queue
>>
>>/var/mailman/qfiles/shunt/1266281245.229378+bd3f1d42e27ad38cf532b809460a0b0a8aef00e7.pck
>>============
>
>
>How many of these are there?
>
>========
>seems a lot.....
>
>The error log is significantly bigger because of them,
>
>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 mailman]# pwd
>/var/log/mailman
>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 mailman]# ls -l
>total 81400
>8><-----
>-rw-rw-r--    1 root     mailman  79321195 Feb 18 08:05 error
>-rw-rw-r--    1 root     mailman      6997 Feb 13 16:42 error.1
>-rw-rw-r--    1 root     mailman     11798 Feb  7 04:02 error.2
>-rw-rw-r--    1 root     mailman      7142 Jan 31 03:19 error.3
>-rw-rw-r--    1 root     mailman      3313 Jan 24 01:54 error.4
>8><-----
>========
>
>
>This may be unrelated. Is there a
>traceback with the above error? What is it?
>
>===========
>this?
>===========
>File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
>    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
>    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
>    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
>    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
>    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 219, in _deepcopy_list
>    y.append(deepcopy(a, memo))
[...]
>RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
>
>Feb 18 08:05:23 2010 (22075) SHUNTING: 1266281265.9402289+108ada57b8e680da231d7a75a9bf50e08bbce3fe
>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 mailman]#


Yes, that. Something is really hosed. Have you tried just restarting
Mailman?

What's at the start of that traceback leading up to the first call to
deepcopy?

This could also be a some kind of list object corruption leading to a
circular reference. Hard to say without more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Feb 18 01:04:05 2010
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:04:05 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002171546280281681fbbb5@msapiro>
References: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A80921D@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<PC195201002171546280281681fbbb5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A809398@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

8><-------


Yes, that. Something is really hosed. 

=======
LOL..........
=======


Have you tried just restarting
Mailman?

=========
Yes and a reboot.....no difference...
=========

What's at the start of that traceback leading up to the first call to
deepcopy?

=========
Feb 16 15:05:45 2010 (2632) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 297, in send_i18n_digests
    mimedigest.attach(MIMEMessage(copy.deepcopy(msg)))
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
=========

This could also be a some kind of list object corruption leading to a
circular reference. Hard to say without more information.

huh?



From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Feb 18 01:50:32 2010
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:50:32 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100217065546017162e39b99@msapiro>
References: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A809163@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<PC19520100217065546017162e39b99@msapiro>
Message-ID: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8093CF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 18 February 2010 3:56 a.m.
To: Steven Jones; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>Yesterday after 5 years of operation ou mailman application has "died" it seems to be barely running taking 3 or more hours to process lists...previous load was <0.2 now its around 1 with a python process absorbing 1 CPU constantly.


Which python process - i.e.which qrunner.

Also look in Mailmans qfiles/* directories to see which one has a large
number of messages.

==========
in.
==========

We moved the queues and restarted its now running fine....which isnt a real 
fix of course.

regards


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 18 01:50:36 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:50:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly
In-Reply-To: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A809398@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC195201002171650360437681fbc59@msapiro>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>What's at the start of that traceback leading up to the first call to
>deepcopy?
>
>=========
>Feb 16 15:05:45 2010 (2632) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
>    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in send_digests
>    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 297, in send_i18n_digests
>    mimedigest.attach(MIMEMessage(copy.deepcopy(msg)))
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
>    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 283, in _deepcopy_inst
>    state = deepcopy(state, memo)
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 186, in deepcopy
>    y = copierfunction(x, memo)
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/copy.py", line 246, in _deepcopy_dict
>    y[deepcopy(key, memo)] = deepcopy(x[key], memo)
>=========


There is a hosed message (some kind of invalid MIME structure that
parses into an email.message object with a circular reference) in the
lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file for some list.

You should be able to determine what list by running bin/dumpdb or
bin/show_qfiles against one of the files in qfiles/shunt/, e.g.
/var/mailman/qfiles/shunt/1266281245.229378+bd3f1d42e27ad38cf532b809460a0b0a8aef00e7.pck

(note your qfiles are in /var/mailman/qfiles/* - I missed that earlier)

Anyway, dumping the shunted message will hopfully tell you to what list
it was sent.

Move that list's digest.mbox aside, and the immediate problem will be
solved. I'll see if I can work up something to identify the bad
message.

Note that the messages being shunted are not the bad ones. They are all
being shunted because of the problem with some older message in the
digest.mbox.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 18 02:15:37 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:15:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly
In-Reply-To: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8093CF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC195201002171715370875681fbe10@msapiro>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>Which python process - i.e.which qrunner.
>
>Also look in Mailmans qfiles/* directories to see which one has a large
>number of messages.
>
>==========
>in.
>==========
>
>We moved the queues and restarted its now running fine....which isnt a real 
>fix of course.


I think our messages crossed in transit, but you have only temporarily
circumvented the problem. It will recur with additional posts to the
problem list until you fix or remove that list's digest.mbox.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Feb 18 02:25:58 2010
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:25:58 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002171715370875681fbe10@msapiro>
References: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8093CF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<PC195201002171715370875681fbe10@msapiro>
Message-ID: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8093FA@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

Looking at shunt we have 127 items....but its not all the same list we have at least 5 so far....

When I do a, find /var/mailman/lists/ -name digest.mbox |wc -l

I have 49 lists....

So its not obvious which list it is so far...

I have looked inside one digest.mbox and there is nothing but benign content so far....a

Its possible that the content is / was a DOS attack?  or maybe just chance....

regards

Steven



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 18 February 2010 2:16 p.m.
To: Steven Jones; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>Which python process - i.e.which qrunner.
>
>Also look in Mailmans qfiles/* directories to see which one has a large
>number of messages.
>
>==========
>in.
>==========
>
>We moved the queues and restarted its now running fine....which isnt a real 
>fix of course.


I think our messages crossed in transit, but you have only temporarily
circumvented the problem. It will recur with additional posts to the
problem list until you fix or remove that list's digest.mbox.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Feb 18 02:39:24 2010
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:39:24 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly
In-Reply-To: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8093FA@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8093CF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<PC195201002171715370875681fbe10@msapiro>
	<61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8093FA@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A809412@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

While looking at the shunt queue I see a all pcks at a certain time (Feb 17 20:21) I have looked at so far have this as a content, instead of normal content.

============
[root at vuwunicosmtp004 shunt]# /var/mailman/bin/show_qfiles 1197321907.8858631+471a68770096868aa8540e5bf8bc643da86ac63d.pck|moreTraceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 74, in ?
====================> 1197321907.8858631+471a68770096868aa8540e5bf8bc643da86ac63d.pck
    main()
  File "/var/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 67, in main
    sys.stdout.write(msg.as_string())
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 130, in as_string
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 230, in _handle_multipart
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 297, in _handle_message
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 230, in _handle_multipart
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 277, in _handle_message_delivery_status
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 274, in _handle_message_delivery_status
TypeError: iteration over non-sequence
========

regards

Steven

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org] On Behalf Of Steven Jones
Sent: Thursday, 18 February 2010 2:26 p.m.
To: Mark Sapiro; mailman-users at python.org
Cc: Andrey Sabitov
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly

Hi,

Looking at shunt we have 127 items....but its not all the same list we have at least 5 so far....

When I do a, find /var/mailman/lists/ -name digest.mbox |wc -l

I have 49 lists....

So its not obvious which list it is so far...

I have looked inside one digest.mbox and there is nothing but benign content so far....a

Its possible that the content is / was a DOS attack?  or maybe just chance....

regards

Steven



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 18 February 2010 2:16 p.m.
To: Steven Jones; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>Which python process - i.e.which qrunner.
>
>Also look in Mailmans qfiles/* directories to see which one has a large
>number of messages.
>
>==========
>in.
>==========
>
>We moved the queues and restarted its now running fine....which isnt a real 
>fix of course.


I think our messages crossed in transit, but you have only temporarily
circumvented the problem. It will recur with additional posts to the
problem list until you fix or remove that list's digest.mbox.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steven.jones%40vuw.ac.nz

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 18 03:03:25 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:03:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly
In-Reply-To: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A809412@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC195201002171803250531f32436ec@msapiro>

Steven Jones wrote:

>While looking at the shunt queue I see a all pcks at a certain time (Feb 17 20:21) I have looked at so far have this as a content, instead of normal content.
>
>============
>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 shunt]# /var/mailman/bin/show_qfiles 1197321907.8858631+471a68770096868aa8540e5bf8bc643da86ac63d.pck|moreTraceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 74, in ?
>====================> 1197321907.8858631+471a68770096868aa8540e5bf8bc643da86ac63d.pck
>    main()
>  File "/var/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 67, in main
>    sys.stdout.write(msg.as_string())
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 130, in as_string
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 230, in _handle_multipart
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 297, in _handle_message
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 230, in _handle_multipart
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 277, in _handle_message_delivery_status
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 274, in _handle_message_delivery_status
>TypeError: iteration over non-sequence


That's not the content of the shunt queue entry, it is the traceback
from the exception that show_qfiles throws when it attempts to display
the message because the message is malformed.

What happens with bin/dumpdb instead of bin/show_qfiles?


Here's a withlist script you can try:

------------------------------------------------------------------
import os
import copy
from Mailman import mm_cfg
from Mailman.Mailbox import Mailbox
def find_bad(mlist):
    fn = os.path.join(mm_cfg.VAR_PREFIX,
                      'lists',
                      mlist.internal_name(),
                      'digest.mbox'
                      )
    try:
        mbox = Mailbox(open(fn))
    except IOError:
        return
    msg = mbox.next()
    msgno = 1
    while msg is not None:
        if msg == '':
            # It was an unparseable message
            print '------------------------------'
            print 'Message %i: Unparseable' % msgno
            print '------------------------------'
            msg = mbox.next()
            msgno += 1
            continue
        print '------------------------------'
        print 'Message %i:' % msgno
        print 'Subject: %s' % msg['subject']
        print 'From: %s' % msg['from']
        try:
            z = copy.deepcopy(msg)
        except RuntimeError:
            print 'Bad One!'
        print '------------------------------'
        msgno += 1
        msg = mbox.next()
------------------------------------------------------------------


If you save that in Mailman's bin/ directory as bin/find_bad.py, then
you can run the following:

 bin/withlist -r find_bad -a

It will check every digest.mbox and print the sequence number, Subject:
and From: of every message and try to do a deepcopy of the message ad
print "Bad One!" if it throws an exception.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 18 03:15:16 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:15:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002171803250531f32436ec@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1952010021718151607963bbe0eac@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Steven Jones wrote:
>
>>While looking at the shunt queue I see a all pcks at a certain time (Feb 17 20:21) I have looked at so far have this as a content, instead of normal content.
>>
>>============
>>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 shunt]# /var/mailman/bin/show_qfiles 1197321907.8858631+471a68770096868aa8540e5bf8bc643da86ac63d.pck|moreTraceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/var/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 74, in ?
>>====================> 1197321907.8858631+471a68770096868aa8540e5bf8bc643da86ac63d.pck
>>    main()
>>  File "/var/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 67, in main
>>    sys.stdout.write(msg.as_string())
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 130, in as_string
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 230, in _handle_multipart
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 297, in _handle_message
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 230, in _handle_multipart
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 277, in _handle_message_delivery_status
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 274, in _handle_message_delivery_status
>>TypeError: iteration over non-sequence
>
>
>That's not the content of the shunt queue entry, it is the traceback
>from the exception that show_qfiles throws when it attempts to display
>the message because the message is malformed.


BTW, the fact that the above traceback is going through
_handle_message_delivery_status indicates that the message is a DSN
(bounce notice) of some kind (and probably malformed)

If bin/dumpdb throws the same or a similar exception, you can always
use 'strings' to see some of the content.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb 18 03:35:32 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:35:32 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <43ea8d071002170751m74a32b65ge0e896832336d4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002171545010.23057@data.home>
	<878war3mzj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43ea8d071002170751m74a32b65ge0e896832336d4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <874olf2ruz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Rob MacGregor writes:

 > That would be a surprise to the SPF folks, and the steady progression
 > of folks who're implementing it ;)

Over the years a lot of things have been surprises to the SPF folks.
I'm sorry for the misinformation, but the SPF promoters have been
guilty of "excessive optimism" themselves.  As for folks who implement
these nostrums, they'll try anything.  (I don't think that's wrong,
stupid, or lazy.  I just don't see it as a signal that the
nostrum-du-jour is useful.)

 > SPF and DKIM solve 2 different parts of the problem of forged emails.
 > Neither provides complete coverage, together they work well.

Please explain.  AFAICR, neither works very well with mailing lists
because they're both designed on the assumption that the endpoints are
directly connected (in the sense that intermediaries like Mailman must
be pure relays and not add anything to header or payload).

You can say that Mailman lists with value-added should re-sign, but
that doesn't play very well because mailing lists are somewhat like
common carriers.  Making the Mailman list responsible for spam etc
(which is what re-signing does) is going to kill a lot of discussion
lists.


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Feb 18 03:47:52 2010
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:47:52 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002171803250531f32436ec@msapiro>
References: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A809412@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<PC195201002171803250531f32436ec@msapiro>
Message-ID: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A809472@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

As below.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Thursday, 18 February 2010 3:03 p.m.
To: Steven Jones; mailman-users at python.org
Cc: Andrey Sabitov
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman no longer working or working very slowly

Steven Jones wrote:

>While looking at the shunt queue I see a all pcks at a certain time (Feb 17 20:21) I have looked at so far have this as a content, instead of normal content.
>
>============
>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 shunt]# /var/mailman/bin/show_qfiles 1197321907.8858631+471a68770096868aa8540e5bf8bc643da86ac63d.pck|moreTraceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 74, in ?
>====================> 1197321907.8858631+471a68770096868aa8540e5bf8bc643da86ac63d.pck
>    main()
>  File "/var/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 67, in main
>    sys.stdout.write(msg.as_string())
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 130, in as_string
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 230, in _handle_multipart
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 297, in _handle_message
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 230, in _handle_multipart
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 277, in _handle_message_delivery_status
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
>  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 274, in _handle_message_delivery_status
>TypeError: iteration over non-sequence


That's not the content of the shunt queue entry, it is the traceback
from the exception that show_qfiles throws when it attempts to display
the message because the message is malformed.

What happens with bin/dumpdb instead of bin/show_qfiles?

=============
I get the similar output but with earlier content,
=============

Arrival-Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:59:07 +1300

Final-Recipient: RFC822; postmaster at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 14:59:08 +1300

--o051uOHi025221.1262656748/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
        by vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) id
        nBV0uOGO015468; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:59:07 +1300
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:59:07 +1300
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200912310059.nBV0uOGO015468 at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz>
To: postmaster
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
        boundary="nBV0uOGO015468.1262221147/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz"
Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)

This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--nBV0uOGO015468.1262221147/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz

The original message was received at Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:59:05 +1300
from localhost
with id nBPNuMtA005712

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
    (expanded from: root)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout
Message could not be delivered for 5 days
Message will be deleted from queue
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout

--nBV0uOGO015468.1262221147/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Arrival-Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:59:05 +1300

Final-Recipient: RFC822; postmaster at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:59:07 +1300

--nBV0uOGO015468.1262221147/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
        by vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) id
        nBPNuMtA005712; Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:59:05 +1300
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:59:05 +1300
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200912252359.nBPNuMtA005712 at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz>
To: postmaster
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
        boundary="nBPNuMtA005712.1261785545/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz"
Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)

This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--nBPNuMtA005712.1261785545/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz

The original message was received at Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:59:05 +1300
from localhost
with id nBKMuMEV003576

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
    (expanded from: root)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout
Message could not be delivered for 5 days
Message will be deleted from queue
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout

--nBPNuMtA005712.1261785545/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Arrival-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:59:05 +1300

Final-Recipient: RFC822; postmaster at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Last-Attempt-Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:59:05 +1300

--nBPNuMtA005712.1261785545/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
        by vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) id
        nBKMuMEV003576; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:59:05 +1300
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:59:05 +1300
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200912202259.nBKMuMEV003576 at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz>
To: postmaster
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
        boundary="nBKMuMEV003576.1261349945/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz"
Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)

This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--nBKMuMEV003576.1261349945/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz

The original message was received at Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:36:52 +1300
from localhost
with id nBFMY9Wv000444

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
    (expanded from: root)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout
Message could not be delivered for 5 days
Message will be deleted from queue
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout

--nBKMuMEV003576.1261349945/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Arrival-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:36:52 +1300

Final-Recipient: RFC822; postmaster at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:59:05 +1300

--nBKMuMEV003576.1261349945/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
        by vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) id
        nBFMY9Wv000444; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:36:52 +1300
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:36:52 +1300
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200912152236.nBFMY9Wv000444 at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz>
To: postmaster
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
        boundary="nBFMY9Wv000444.1260916612/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz"
Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)

This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--nBFMY9Wv000444.1260916612/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz

The original message was received at Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:36:52 +1300
from localhost
with id nBALY9Fc023158

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
    (expanded from: root)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout
Message could not be delivered for 5 days
Message will be deleted from queue
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout

--nBFMY9Wv000444.1260916612/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Arrival-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:36:52 +1300

Final-Recipient: RFC822; postmaster at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:36:52 +1300

--nBFMY9Wv000444.1260916612/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
        by vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) id
        nBALY9Fc023158; Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:36:52 +1300
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:36:52 +1300
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200912102136.nBALY9Fc023158 at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz>
To: postmaster
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
        boundary="nBALY9Fc023158.1260481012/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz"
Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)

This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--nBALY9Fc023158.1260481012/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz

The original message was received at Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:34:53 +1300
from localhost
with id nB5LWBvV021289

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
    (expanded from: root)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout
Message could not be delivered for 5 days
Message will be deleted from queue
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout

--nBALY9Fc023158.1260481012/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Arrival-Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:34:53 +1300

Final-Recipient: RFC822; postmaster at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:36:52 +1300
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 74, in ?
    main()
  File "/var/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 67, in main
    sys.stdout.write(msg.as_string())
IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
[root at vuwunicosmtp004 shunt]# /var/mailman/bin/dumpdb 1266281092.1998739+ad35a3196cfbc0a8b244e3a8ac41cbff7dfbff40.pck |more[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
>From MAILER-DAEMON at lists.vuw.ac.nz Tue Feb 16 13:44:51 2010
Received: from vuwunicomx00001.vuw.ac.nz (vuwunicomx00001.vuw.ac.nz
        [130.195.86.23])
        by vuwunicosmtp004.vuw.ac.nz (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id
        o1G0ipo7018626
        for <its-unix at lists.vuw.ac.nz>; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:44:51 +1300
Received: from vuwunicvsmtp005.vuw.ac.nz (vuwunicvsmtp005.vuw.ac.nz
        [130.195.86.25])
        by vuwunicomx00001.vuw.ac.nz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id
        o1G0guSR020860
        for <its-unix at vuw.ac.nz>; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:43:01 +1300
Received: from STAWINCVEXHUB02.staff.vuw.ac.nz
        (stawincvexhub02.staff.vuw.ac.nz [130.195.81.232])
        by vuwunicvsmtp005.vuw.ac.nz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id
        o1G0igNE022274
        for <its-unix at vuw.ac.nz>; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:44:42 +1300
Received: from vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz (130.195.87.224) by
        STAWINCVEXHUB02.staff.vuw.ac.nz (130.195.81.230) with Microsoft SMTP
        Server id 8.1.375.2; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:44:42 +1300
Received: from localhost (localhost)    by vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
        (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) id o1EKRQNn001741;
        Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:30:17 +1300
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:30:17 +1300
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <201002142030.o1EKRQNn001741 at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz>
To: postmaster at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
        boundary="o1EKRQNn001741.1266179417/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz"
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)
Cc:
Subject: [Its-unix] Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
X-BeenThere: its-unix at lists.vuw.ac.nz
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: ITS Unix team list <its-unix.lists.vuw.ac.nz>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/its-unix>,
        <mailto:its-unix-request at lists.vuw.ac.nz?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/private/its-unix>
List-Post: <mailto:its-unix at lists.vuw.ac.nz>
List-Help: <mailto:its-unix-request at lists.vuw.ac.nz?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/its-unix>,
        <mailto:its-unix-request at lists.vuw.ac.nz?subject=subscribe>

--o1EKRQNn001741.1266179417/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:51:52 +1300
from localhost
with id o0U6pjqk011919

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
    (expanded from: root)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout
Message could not be delivered for 5 days
Message will be deleted from queue
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout

--o1EKRQNn001741.1266179417/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Arrival-Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:51:52 +1300

Final-Recipient: RFC822; postmaster at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:30:17 +1300

--o1EKRQNn001741.1266179417/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
        by vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) id
        o0U6pjqk011919; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:51:52 +1300
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:51:52 +1300
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <201001300651.o0U6pjqk011919 at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz>
To: postmaster
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
        boundary="o0U6pjqk011919.1264834312/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz"
Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)

This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--o0U6pjqk011919.1264834312/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz

The original message was received at Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:59:15 +1300
from localhost
with id o0P5uVSH024216

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
    (expanded from: root)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
its-unix at vuw.ac.nz... Deferred: mail.staff.vuw.ac.nz: No route to host
Message could not be delivered for 5 days
Message will be deleted from queue

--o0U6pjqk011919.1264834312/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Arrival-Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:59:15 +1300

Final-Recipient: RFC822; postmaster at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Remote-MTA: DNS; mail.staff.vuw.ac.nz
Last-Attempt-Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:51:52 +1300

--o0U6pjqk011919.1264834312/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
        by vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) id
        o0P5uVSH024216; Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:59:15 +1300
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:59:15 +1300
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <201001250559.o0P5uVSH024216 at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz>
To: postmaster
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
        boundary="o0P5uVSH024216.1264399155/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz"
Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)

This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--o0P5uVSH024216.1264399155/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz

The original message was received at Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:59:14 +1300
from localhost
with id o0K4uV05014461

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
    (expanded from: root)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout
Message could not be delivered for 5 days
Message will be deleted from queue
451 vuw.ac.nz: Name server timeout

--o0P5uVSH024216.1264399155/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Arrival-Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:59:14 +1300

Final-Recipient: RFC822; postmaster at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; its-unix at vuw.ac.nz
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:59:15 +1300

--o0P5uVSH024216.1264399155/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
        by vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) id
        o0K4uV05014461; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:59:14 +1300
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:59:14 +1300
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <201001200459.o0K4uV05014461 at vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz>
To: postmaster
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
        boundary="o0K4uV05014461.1263963554/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz"
Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)

This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--o0K4uV05014461.1263963554/vuwunicohrt0001.vuw.ac.nz

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/bin/dumpdb", line 156, in ?
    msg = main()
  File "/var/mailman/bin/dumpdb", line 146, in main
    pp.pprint(obj)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/pprint.py", line 110, in pprint
    self.__stream.write(self.pformat(object) + "\n")
IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
[root at vuwunicosmtp004 shunt]# /var/mailman/bin/dumpdb 1211108848.765564+e6f87ef6d3934dda5ade6884931831c36f42e66d.pck |more
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/bin/dumpdb", line 156, in ?
    msg = main()
  File "/var/mailman/bin/dumpdb", line 146, in main
[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
    pp.pprint(obj)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/pprint.py", line 110, in pprint
    self.__stream.write(self.pformat(object) + "\n")
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/pprint.py", line 114, in pformat
    self.__format(object, sio, 0, 0, {}, 0)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/pprint.py", line 136, in __format
    rep = self.__repr(object, context, level - 1)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/pprint.py", line 200, in __repr
    self.__depth, level)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.2/pprint.py", line 287, in _safe_repr
    rep = `object`
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 50, in __repr__
    return self.__str__()
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 116, in __str__
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 130, in as_string
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 230, in _handle_multipart
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 297, in _handle_message
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 230, in _handle_multipart
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 277, in _handle_message_delivery_status
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in _write
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in _dispatch
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.8-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 274, in _handle_message_delivery_status
TypeError: iteration over non-sequence
[root at vuwunicosmtp004 shunt]#




8><--------


From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Feb 18 04:02:23 2010
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:02:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow mail problem fixed
Message-ID: <4B7CADBF.60209@bradakis.com>

A current thread reminded me of the trouble I was having with
Mailman taking 2 - 3 hours to process messages and send them
out.  I requested the list's help in tracking down the problem.

Turned out to be a hardware issue.  Some bad disk blocks
showed up in the qfiles tree so some qrunner processes were waiting
and waiting and waiting on bad I/O calls before timing out and
continuing on.  Problem fixed, Team.Net is back to maybe a minute
or two between receipt and resending list messages.

Gee, it wasn't a mailman problem after all, should I say
thanks for nothing ;-)

mjb.



From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Feb 18 05:37:36 2010
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:37:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <874olf2ruz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002171545010.23057@data.home>
	<878war3mzj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43ea8d071002170751m74a32b65ge0e896832336d4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<874olf2ruz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <A03CB7EE-B923-46DC-A96B-6DDE9AA6C3F4@shub-internet.org>

On Feb 17, 2010, at 8:35 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>> SPF and DKIM solve 2 different parts of the problem of forged emails.
>> Neither provides complete coverage, together they work well.
> 
> Please explain.  AFAICR, neither works very well with mailing lists
> because they're both designed on the assumption that the endpoints are
> directly connected (in the sense that intermediaries like Mailman must
> be pure relays and not add anything to header or payload).

SPF works at the envelope level, but without modification it breaks things like forwarding, is vulnerable to DNS cache pollution/poisoning attacks, etc....

DKIM works at the content level and cryptographically signs the headers, but is vulnerable to MTAs and mail gateways that may transform the content or the representation of the content in ways that would normally appear to be transparent, but in fact wind up breaking the cryptographic signature.


Both have their uses, and both have their own set of limitations.  There are proposals on the table to try to help fix various known issues with these two tools, as well as to help fill in some of the other gaps.  We'll see if these proposals get anywhere.

> You can say that Mailman lists with value-added should re-sign, but
> that doesn't play very well because mailing lists are somewhat like
> common carriers.  Making the Mailman list responsible for spam etc
> (which is what re-signing does) is going to kill a lot of discussion
> lists.

IMO, Mailman should not re-sign.  If there was anything that would sign the outgoing messages, that would be the MTA and not Mailman.

Or, if Mailman is going to re-sign, then it should rename all but the minimum set of headers and then sign only the minimal set, in effect saying "I scanned the message on inbound and it didn't look like spam to me, and the users requested that these messages be sent on to them, so here's the minimal stuff I trust about this message".

At that point, if some downstream site marks the message as spam and this hurts the reputation of the site running Mailman, then the site running Mailman should ban the downstream site that inappropriately blamed it for sending the content that their recipient(s) asked to receive.

--
Brad Knowles <bradknowles at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb 18 11:27:15 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:27:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <A03CB7EE-B923-46DC-A96B-6DDE9AA6C3F4@shub-internet.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1002171545010.23057@data.home>
	<878war3mzj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43ea8d071002170751m74a32b65ge0e896832336d4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<874olf2ruz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<A03CB7EE-B923-46DC-A96B-6DDE9AA6C3F4@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <87vddu260s.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > IMO, Mailman should not re-sign.  If there was anything that would
 > sign the outgoing messages, that would be the MTA and not Mailman.

But isn't that the problem?  In the situation these methods are
designed for, the MTA is signing mail for a trusted party, presumably
a user (perhaps a system user such as "root" or "cron") in the domain.
(When forwarding, the origin's signature can just be passed on.)  But
in the case of a mailing list, the list manager has trust information
that the MTA doesn't (list membership, for a leading example).  So
even if the MTA actually does the signing, it's Mailman's
responsibility.

 > Or, if Mailman is going to re-sign, then it should rename all but
 > the minimum set of headers and then sign only the minimal set, in
 > effect saying "I scanned the message on inbound and it didn't look
 > like spam to me, and the users requested that these messages be
 > sent on to them, so here's the minimal stuff I trust about this
 > message".

It should also sign RFC 2369 headers, etc, too.  (I assume that that's
what you meant, but minimal could also mean "as little as possible".)


From jdo at irex.org  Wed Feb 17 19:55:34 2010
From: jdo at irex.org (Jason Vuong Do)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:55:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions regarding Mailman FW: Irexintl Digest,
	Vol 3, Issue 1
Message-ID: <52D2887F7CED084A8B52EFBCD599C7C99F6D93D37B@exchange2.irex.org>

Hello there! I will be using mailman to send out weekly digests to our staff globally. Is there a way to reconfigure the format to make it look more readable (Please see example below)? Also, can users send emails with attachments to be included in the digest? I'm assuming no, but please let me know if there is a loop hole around this.

Thanks so much for your help!


Jason Vuong Do 
?
New Media Coordinator | IREX | +1 (202) 628-8188 x113 | jdo at irex.org? | www.linkedin.com/in/jasonvuongdo | Skype: Jason.V.Do | Follow me! @jasondodo



-----Original Message-----
From: irexintl-bounces at info.irex.org [mailto:irexintl-bounces at info.irex.org] On Behalf Of irexintl-request at info.irex.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 1:34 PM
To: irexintl at info.irex.org
Subject: Irexintl Digest, Vol 3, Issue 1

Send Irexintl mailing list submissions to
	irexintl at info.irex.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://info.irex.org/mailman/listinfo/irexintl_info.irex.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	irexintl-request at info.irex.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	irexintl-owner at info.irex.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Irexintl digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. USG policy change: no more kittens as cost share (Keith Mellnick)
   2. test post from Keith (Keith Berner)
   3. test no. 2 (Keith Berner)
   4. JVD: Test Story 2 (Jason Vuong Do)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:34:26 -0500
From: Keith Mellnick <kmellnick at irex.org>
To: "'Irexintl at info.irex.org'" <Irexintl at info.irex.org>
Subject: [IrexIntl] USG policy change: no more kittens as cost share
Message-ID:
	<52D2887F7CED084A8B52EFBCD599C7C99772C3408B at exchange2.irex.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hey all, turns out we need to make some big changes in our cost-share planning. State is no longer accepting kittens as cost share. Puppies and orangs are still legit but I don't know for how long. Full details here: http://bit.ly/6B9lpb.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://info.irex.org/mailman/private/irexintl_info.irex.org/attachments/20100105/321d327a/attachment-0001.html>

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:45:14 -0500
From: Keith Berner <kberner at irex.org>
To: "'irexintl at info.irex.org'" <irexintl at info.irex.org>
Subject: [IrexIntl] test post from Keith
Message-ID:
	<52D2887F7CED084A8B52EFBCD599C7C99772AA5AD9 at exchange2.irex.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Howdy!

Keith Berner
IT Projects Manager
IREX
International Research & Exchanges Board
2121 K Street, NW, Suite 700
Washington, DC 20037
TEL: (202) 247-9457
FAX: (202) 628-8189
www.irex.org<http://www.irex.org/>



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://info.irex.org/mailman/private/irexintl_info.irex.org/attachments/20100105/7b26f97a/attachment-0001.html>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:01:58 -0500
From: Keith Berner <kberner at irex.org>
To: "'irexintl at info.irex.org'" <irexintl at info.irex.org>
Subject: [IrexIntl] test no. 2
Message-ID:
	<52D2887F7CED084A8B52EFBCD599C7C99772AA5AE5 at exchange2.irex.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Trying again.

Keith Berner
IT Projects Manager
IREX
International Research & Exchanges Board
2121 K Street, NW, Suite 700
Washington, DC 20037
TEL: (202) 247-9457
FAX: (202) 628-8189
www.irex.org<http://www.irex.org/>



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://info.irex.org/mailman/private/irexintl_info.irex.org/attachments/20100105/9dab9414/attachment-0001.html>

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:10:37 -0500
From: Jason Vuong Do <jdo at irex.org>
To: "'irexintl at info.irex.org'" <irexintl at info.irex.org>
Subject: [IrexIntl] JVD: Test Story 2
Message-ID:
	<52D2887F7CED084A8B52EFBCD599C7C99772B646B6 at exchange2.irex.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Yemen shows frictions with US over terror fight<http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100105/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_yemen_al_qaida>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://info.irex.org/mailman/private/irexintl_info.irex.org/attachments/20100105/b730e35c/attachment-0001.html>

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Irexintl mailing list
Irexintl at info.irex.org
http://info.irex.org/mailman/listinfo/irexintl_info.irex.org


End of Irexintl Digest, Vol 3, Issue 1
**************************************

From leonardo.maccari at unifi.it  Thu Feb 18 13:22:38 2010
From: leonardo.maccari at unifi.it (leonardo maccari)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:22:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing only the web interface url
Message-ID: <4B7D310E.4020508@unifi.it>

Dear list,
during a change in a domain name the follwoing has happened.

- a list XXX was created with domain newdomain.org, that is the default
domain.
- I had lists on olddomain.org that I don't want to keep.
- the list interface was redirected initially lists.olddomain.org
- now I completed the set-up and redirected the web interface to
lists.newdomain.org
- admin login for XXX on lists.newdomain.org does not work, i believe
because the web interface is still convinced to be on lists.olddomain.org

I understand that if I use fix_url it will change both the web interface
url and the list domain, which is something unwanted. So What I think
I'll do is to make a command.txt file containing:

web_page_url = 'http://lists.newdomain.org'

and run

config_list -i command.txt XXX

this should change the web_page_url variable, right?

I'm asking to the ML because if I run the config_list -o command I see
that the web_page_url variable is used but never set and if I run with
-i -c options it tells me that a "non-standard parameter" has been found
named web_page_url.

Mailman is debian stable standard version

dpkg -l mailman

ii  mailman                  1:2.1.11-11

thanks,
leonardo.

From martin at folkemusik.dk  Thu Feb 18 14:51:45 2010
From: martin at folkemusik.dk (Martin Ibsgaard)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:51:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Folkemusiklisten - Importing existing member to our
	new host
Message-ID: <85ED329DB3B64D34A37A67EA459E8837@ffs2006>

Hello mailman,

 

We have resently changed our webhost and now I want to import our existing
members to our new host. I can still login to the old admin site in mailman,
and see a list of the old members (289 mail-adresses)

But in our new ?folkemusiklisten? I have to add them. Do I have to do that
manually or is there a way to copy/paste the subscribers/members to our new
webhost?

 

Kind regards 

 

Martin ibsgaard

The Danish Folk Council

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Folkemusikkens F?llessekretariat
Saltholmsgade 22
8000 ?rhus C
Tlf: +45 8676 1141
www.folkemusik.dk <http://www.folkemusik.dk/> 

 

 


From rgabarel at solumag.fr  Thu Feb 18 09:10:00 2010
From: rgabarel at solumag.fr (Romuald Gabarel)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:10:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] TR: 4 Test moderator request(s) waiting
Message-ID: <81B4534909A045AEAA2E66482E138F82@romuald>

 
Hello,

I receive everyday the email below but i don't know the adminpassword...
Can you close the solumag.fr acompte please ?

Thanks.

Sinc?res salutations,
Romuald Gabarel 

________________________________

 
T?l : 04 74 80 58 14
Fax : 04 74 80 58 14
www.solumag.fr


-----Message d'origine-----
De : mailman-bounces at facverte.org [mailto:mailman-bounces at facverte.org] De
la part de test-bounces at solumag.fr
Envoy? : jeudi 18 f?vrier 2010 08:00
? : test-owner at solumag.fr
Objet : 4 Test moderator request(s) waiting

The Test at solumag.fr mailing list has 4 request(s) waiting for your
consideration at:

	http://lists.solumag.fr/mailman/admindb/test
	
Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of pending
requests, if any, will be sent out daily.


Pending posts:
From: chcastel at solumag.fr on Wed Dec 23 18:18:45 2009
Subject: Solumag - Joyeuses F?tes
Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list

From: chcastel at solumag.fr on Wed Dec 23 18:44:11 2009
Subject: Solumag - Joyeuses F?tes
Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list

From: newsletter at poker.fr on Mon Jan  4 14:20:01 2010
Subject: [Poker.fr] Bonne Ann?e !
Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list

From: newsletter at poker.fr on Mon Feb 15 18:46:39 2010
Subject: [Poker.fr] Poker.fr c?l?bre son nouveau site en organisant la
Poker.fr Cup !
Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list No virus found in this
incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2692 - Release Date: 02/16/10
19:35:00


From rob.macgregor at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 16:30:46 2010
From: rob.macgregor at gmail.com (Rob MacGregor)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:30:46 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions regarding Mailman FW: Irexintl Digest,
	Vol 3, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <52D2887F7CED084A8B52EFBCD599C7C99F6D93D37B@exchange2.irex.org>
References: <52D2887F7CED084A8B52EFBCD599C7C99F6D93D37B@exchange2.irex.org>
Message-ID: <43ea8d071002180730y664b150et265debb43c4de50a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 18:55, Jason Vuong Do <jdo at irex.org> wrote:
> Hello there! I will be using mailman to send out weekly digests to our staff globally. Is there a way to reconfigure the format to make it look more readable (Please see example below)? Also, can users send emails with attachments to be included in the digest? I'm assuming no, but please let me know if there is a loop hole around this.

I'd be surprised if the FAQ doesn't cover it, but try using the MIME
digests instead of the plain text one.

-- 
                 Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
      Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
        doesn't become a monster.                  Friedrich Nietzsche

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 18 17:50:01 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:50:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing only the web interface url
In-Reply-To: <4B7D310E.4020508@unifi.it>
Message-ID: <PC1952010021808500106401e176841@msapiro>

leonardo maccari wrote:
>
>I understand that if I use fix_url it will change both the web interface
>url and the list domain, which is something unwanted.


fix_url changes the lists web_page_url based on DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN and
the provided urlhost argument or DEFAULT_URL_HOST, and it changes the
lists host_name (email domain) to the email host corresponding to the
provided urlhost per the add_virtualhost() mapping or to
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.

Why is this not what you want?


>So What I think
>I'll do is to make a command.txt file containing:
>
>web_page_url = 'http://lists.newdomain.org'
>
>and run
>
>config_list -i command.txt XXX
>
>this should change the web_page_url variable, right?


Yes, you can do this, and it will work.


>I'm asking to the ML because if I run the config_list -o command I see
>that the web_page_url variable is used but never set and if I run with
>-i -c options it tells me that a "non-standard parameter" has been found
>named web_page_url.


config_list -o only outputs those settings which are visible in the
admin GUI.

config_list -i will set anything you give it, but if you give it a
setting that isn't in the GUI it gives the non-standard parameter
message, but it sets it anyway.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 18 17:54:53 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:54:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] TR: 4 Test moderator request(s) waiting
In-Reply-To: <81B4534909A045AEAA2E66482E138F82@romuald>
Message-ID: <PC1952010021808545305781e176837@msapiro>

Romuald Gabarel wrote:
>
>I receive everyday the email below but i don't know the adminpassword...
>Can you close the solumag.fr acompte please ?


We at mailman-users at python.org have no knowledge of or control over any
Mailman lists at lists.solumag.fr. You will have to contact the
administrators of that server for help with this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 18 18:02:52 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:02:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Folkemusiklisten - Importing existing member to
	ournew host
In-Reply-To: <85ED329DB3B64D34A37A67EA459E8837@ffs2006>
Message-ID: <PC1952010021809025206561e176884@msapiro>

Martin Ibsgaard wrote:
>
>We have resently changed our webhost and now I want to import our existing
>members to our new host. I can still login to the old admin site in mailman,
>and see a list of the old members (289 mail-adresses)
>
>But in our new "folkemusiklisten" I have to add them. Do I have to do that
>manually or is there a way to copy/paste the subscribers/members to our new
>webhost?

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9> for ways to get a list of
members from the "old" list. Once you have that list, you can paste it
into the Membership Management... -> Mass Subscription page of the new
list. See also, the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/YoA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Feb 18 22:55:25 2010
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:55:25 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail - Aliases
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010021718151607963bbe0eac@msapiro>
References: <PC195201002171803250531f32436ec@msapiro>
	<PC1952010021718151607963bbe0eac@msapiro>
Message-ID: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095DF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

Is there any reason why there is no gui in Mailman to add the lines needed to aliases fro sendmail?

regards

Steven


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Thu Feb 18 23:05:58 2010
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:05:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail - Aliases
In-Reply-To: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095DF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <PC195201002171803250531f32436ec@msapiro>
	<PC1952010021718151607963bbe0eac@msapiro>
	<61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095DF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20100218220557.GS3337@charite.de>

* Steven Jones <Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz>:
> Hi,
> 
> Is there any reason why there is no gui in Mailman to add the lines needed to aliases fro sendmail?

That's something done ONCE at install time...

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Feb 18 23:09:26 2010
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:09:26 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail - Aliases
In-Reply-To: <20100218220557.GS3337@charite.de>
References: <PC195201002171803250531f32436ec@msapiro>
	<PC1952010021718151607963bbe0eac@msapiro>
	<61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095DF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<20100218220557.GS3337@charite.de>
Message-ID: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095F9@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

uh no, Its done per list when you create the list, so that's lots of command line additions, if I had a gui to do it I could allocate the work to the helpdesk and not a linux admin.

regards

Steven

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org] On Behalf Of Ralf Hildebrandt
Sent: Friday, 19 February 2010 11:06 a.m.
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail - Aliases

* Steven Jones <Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz>:
> Hi,
> 
> Is there any reason why there is no gui in Mailman to add the lines needed to aliases fro sendmail?

That's something done ONCE at install time...

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steven.jones%40vuw.ac.nz

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Thu Feb 18 23:18:13 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:18:13 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail - Aliases
In-Reply-To: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095F9@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <PC195201002171803250531f32436ec@msapiro>
	<PC1952010021718151607963bbe0eac@msapiro>
	<61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095DF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<20100218220557.GS3337@charite.de>
	<61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095F9@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20100218221813.GY2936@amyl.org.uk>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:09:26AM +1300, Steven Jones wrote:
> uh no, Its done per list when you create the list, so that's lots of
> command line additions, if I had a gui to do it I could allocate the
> work to the helpdesk and not a linux admin.

Maybe set 'MTA' in mm_cfg.py to something to automatically handle
that? (lazy-admins, and all).

Or failing that, how about setting the list-owner address to something
that feeds into your helpdesk software, so the helpdesk can see what
to copy/paste into whatever it is that they would.

(mumbles something about top-posting)

-- 
A bureaucrat's idea of cleaning up his files is
to make a copy of everything before he destroys it

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Thu Feb 18 23:20:23 2010
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:20:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail - Aliases
In-Reply-To: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095F9@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <PC195201002171803250531f32436ec@msapiro>
	<PC1952010021718151607963bbe0eac@msapiro>
	<61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095DF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<20100218220557.GS3337@charite.de>
	<61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095F9@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20100218222023.GU3337@charite.de>

* Steven Jones <Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz>:

> uh no, Its done per list when you create the list, so that's lots of
> command line additions, if I had a gui to do it I could allocate the
> work to the helpdesk and not a linux admin.

Very odd, with Postfix I don't have to do that. Both use BerkeleyDB,
so I wonder why this shouldn't be possible with Sendmail as well...

http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030606

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 19 00:32:41 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:32:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail - Aliases
In-Reply-To: <20100218222023.GU3337@charite.de>
Message-ID: <PC19520100218153241035921d850d0@msapiro>

Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

>* Steven Jones <Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz>:
>
>> uh no, Its done per list when you create the list, so that's lots of
>> command line additions, if I had a gui to do it I could allocate the
>> work to the helpdesk and not a linux admin.
>
>Very odd, with Postfix I don't have to do that. Both use BerkeleyDB,
>so I wonder why this shouldn't be possible with Sendmail as well...
>
>http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030606


Yes, that FAQ page points to ways that alias generation can be
automated for sendmail, in particular the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/B4Au>.

To answer the OP's original question, yes there is a reason. The reason
is sendmail's security which won't use aliases in files that are
writable by other than root.

Thus, you have to use one of the technique's in the FAQ which use
either a cron run by root or a sudo command with appropriate entries
in /etc/sudoers so the web server can run it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Fri Feb 19 00:49:11 2010
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:49:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail - Aliases
In-Reply-To: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095DF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <PC195201002171803250531f32436ec@msapiro>
	<PC1952010021718151607963bbe0eac@msapiro>
	<61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095DF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <01AB1651-9B8A-4506-AB8A-2132BF334477@kreme.com>

On 18-Feb-2010, at 14:55, Steven Jones wrote:
> References: <PC195201002171803250531f32436ec at msapiro>
> 	<PC1952010021718151607963bbe0eac at msapiro>
> In-Reply-To: <PC1952010021718151607963bbe0eac at msapiro>

[...]

> Hi,

Hi, please do not hijack someone else's thread when starting a new topic. Create a NEW message addressed to the list, not a reply to a previous message.

You're breaking threading, and every time you do that a puppy dies.


-- 
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, 
and to hear the lamentation of the women


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Feb 19 01:44:26 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:44:26 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Sendmail - Aliases
In-Reply-To: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095DF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <PC195201002171803250531f32436ec@msapiro>
	<PC1952010021718151607963bbe0eac@msapiro>
	<61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095DF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <87ljeq12c5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Steven Jones writes:

 > Is there any reason why there is no gui in Mailman to add the lines
 > needed to aliases fro sendmail?

Because nobody who needs it has bothered to write it, basically, and
because AFAIK in standard installations of sendmail you need to be
root to change the aliases file.  We really don't want to be
distributing half-baked scripts that need suid root, *especially not*
if they're going to be executable from the GUI.  We have enough CVEs
already, we don't want any more. ;-)

If you have Linux admins familiar with sendmail, surely one of them
can write the necessary script?

BTW, for Exim and Postfix, at least, as Ralf points out it's a
one-time cost, at Mailman installation time.  It should be possible to
create a sendmail.cf that sets up addresses that match one of the very
stylized addresses used by Mailman to forward to Mailman.  If you want
to do the Mailman/sendmail community a really big favor, put one of
those Linux admins on that problem.

From ennis at nmcourts.gov  Fri Feb 19 16:09:34 2010
From: ennis at nmcourts.gov (Ennis Ibarra)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:09:34 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail - Aliases
In-Reply-To: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095DF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <2118295030.3710.1266592174161.JavaMail.root@mail.nmcourts.gov>

Common sense? 

Think about it, in a mailman only server it makes sense, but server wide configuration need (normally) the administrator intervention. 



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Jones" <Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz> 
To: mailman-users at python.org 
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:55:25 PM 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail - Aliases 

Hi, 

Is there any reason why there is no gui in Mailman to add the lines needed to aliases fro sendmail? 

regards 

Steven 

------------------------------------------------------ 
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users 
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ 
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ennis%40nmcourts.gov 

From rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov  Fri Feb 19 16:37:46 2010
From: rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov (Rosenbaum, Larry M.)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:37:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turn moderation bits on/off from script?
Message-ID: <43C68785C2728049AF86B0ECB240A1511370385205@EXCHMB.ornl.gov>

The GUI has an option to do this:

Set everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently visible
   o Off   o On

Is there a way to do this from a script?

Thanks, Larry

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 19 17:14:28 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:14:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turn moderation bits on/off from script?
In-Reply-To: <43C68785C2728049AF86B0ECB240A1511370385205@EXCHMB.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC195201002190814280015033d55ab@msapiro>

Rosenbaum, Larry M. wrote:

>The GUI has an option to do this:
>
>Set everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently visible
>   o Off   o On
>
>Is there a way to do this from a script?


Anything that can be done in Mailman can be done with a withlist script.

See <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_mod.py> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/set_mod.py>) for this one.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov  Fri Feb 19 17:41:00 2010
From: rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov (Rosenbaum, Larry M.)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:41:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turn moderation bits on/off from script?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002190814280015033d55ab@msapiro>
References: <43C68785C2728049AF86B0ECB240A1511370385205@EXCHMB.ornl.gov>
	<PC195201002190814280015033d55ab@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43C68785C2728049AF86B0ECB240A15113703852FB@EXCHMB.ornl.gov>

> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 11:14 AM
> To: Rosenbaum, Larry M.; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Turn moderation bits on/off from script?
> 
> Rosenbaum, Larry M. wrote:
> 
> >The GUI has an option to do this:
> >
> >Set everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently
> visible
> >   o Off   o On
> >
> >Is there a way to do this from a script?
> 
> 
> Anything that can be done in Mailman can be done with a withlist
> script.
> 
> See <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_mod.py> (mirrored at
> <http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/set_mod.py>) for this one.

Thank you very much!

Larry

> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob001 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 03:29:22 2010
From: bob001 at gmail.com (bob 001)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:29:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail - Aliases
In-Reply-To: <61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095DF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <PC195201002171803250531f32436ec@msapiro>
	<PC1952010021718151607963bbe0eac@msapiro>
	<61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095DF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <29be4f4d1002191829r2744c993gf652cc6a8f28f3b3@mail.gmail.com>

I created the mailing list and didn't have to do it.
Postfix configuration is pointing to mailman alias file which DOES
gets updated with additional aliases when we create the new list.
Am I misunderstanding something?


On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Steven Jones <Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there any reason why there is no gui in Mailman to add the lines needed to aliases fro sendmail?
>
> regards
>
> Steven
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bob001%40gmail.com
>

From bob001 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 03:34:48 2010
From: bob001 at gmail.com (bob 001)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:34:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing load to multiple server for
	announce-only list.
Message-ID: <29be4f4d1002191834o75e742a2ue0e881b70bae93cf@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Experts,

Can someone suggest distributed server configuration of fairly large
(50k+ messages ) announce only list?

List is getting increasingly large and I am thinking if there is any
way to distribute the load to muliple linux/mailman servers.

Currently it takes almost whole day to send single message to this entire list.

Is it possible to distribute such load?  Or it should be done at
postfix level? Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Bob.

From cpz at tuunq.com  Sat Feb 20 03:56:34 2010
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:56:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing load to multiple server
 for	announce-only list.
In-Reply-To: <29be4f4d1002191834o75e742a2ue0e881b70bae93cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <29be4f4d1002191834o75e742a2ue0e881b70bae93cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F4F62.8030705@tuunq.com>

On 2/19/2010 6:34 PM, bob 001 wrote:
> Can someone suggest distributed server configuration of fairly large
> (50k+ messages ) announce only list?

  Is it possible to distribute such load?  Or it should be done at
> postfix level? Any suggestions?

Have you looked at the performance FAQ?
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030582

The bottleneck is more likely to be in the MTA or network, not in mailman.

z!

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 20 04:08:42 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:08:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing load to multiple server
	forannounce-only list.
In-Reply-To: <29be4f4d1002191834o75e742a2ue0e881b70bae93cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002191908420308528eca1e@msapiro>

bob 001 wrote:
>
>Can someone suggest distributed server configuration of fairly large
>(50k+ messages ) announce only list?
>
>List is getting increasingly large and I am thinking if there is any
>way to distribute the load to muliple linux/mailman servers.
>
>Currently it takes almost whole day to send single message to this entire list.
>
>Is it possible to distribute such load?  Or it should be done at
>postfix level? Any suggestions?


The only way to do this in Mailman is by breaking the list into
sub-lists on different servers.

Where is the time spent. I.e. What is the time in the "smtp to LIST for
50000  recips, completed in tttt.ttt seconds" message in Mailman's
smtp log. If this is relatively short, the time is mostly being spent
in postfix after receiving the message from Mailman.

If it's not short, I.e. even 12 hours, you are only delivering 1
recipient per second from Mailman to Postfix. That is really poor.

Do you have a caching DNS on the Mailman/Postfix machine?

Search the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3> for "performance".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Sat Feb 20 08:14:40 2010
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:14:40 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail - Aliases
In-Reply-To: <29be4f4d1002191829r2744c993gf652cc6a8f28f3b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <PC195201002171803250531f32436ec@msapiro>
	<PC1952010021718151607963bbe0eac@msapiro>
	<61DF826607311A4EBE75A77ED59E4CDE2C6A8095DF@STAWINCOEXMAIL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<29be4f4d1002191829r2744c993gf652cc6a8f28f3b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87vddsidjz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

bob 001 writes:

 > I created the mailing list and didn't have to do it.
 > Postfix configuration is pointing to mailman alias file which DOES
 > gets updated with additional aliases when we create the new list.
 > Am I misunderstanding something?

Yes.  Steven is using the original Sendmail which doesn't permit that
to be done so easily.  This is due to a completely different design.
Postfix, starting a new design from scratch, benefited from the long
experience with Sendmail, but it's not easy to change an old workhorse
like Sendmail.


From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Sat Feb 20 13:21:23 2010
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan Foerster)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:21:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
Message-ID: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>

Hello world,

I have a very strange performance problem which only affects one small
announce-only list with approximately 11000 recipients: The smtp
logfile shows that it takes Mailman about 8400 seconds to deliver the
mails, which just doesn't make sense.

Setup: Mailman is configured to deliver outgoing mails to a dedicated
Postfix smtpd(8) daemon listening on port 10031. That daemon is
configured with all the usual stuff, no DNS lookups, no recipient
verification, no pre-queue filters, dedicated DNS caches and so on (if
it really matters, I can post the complete configuration to this
list). VERP and personalization are turned off on the Mailman side.
Postfix version is 2.8-20100213, but I ran a quick test with 2.6.5
just to be safe, and it doesn't change anything. Mailman version is
2.1.11 from Debian/stable.

After I first noticed the problem, I checked the logs - nothing
suspicious there. So I decided to to take some TCP captures.

For all other lists on this server, the conversation between Postfix
and Mailman is very fast paced, but for that one list, it takes almost
one second for a recipient to be specified (which is then acknowledged
immediately by Postfix).

I really don't have any idea where I coul start debugging, or how.
Normally it is the MTAs performance that people need to worry about,
but that particular mailserver isn't busy at all, not even handling
550k messages per day. Posting to all other lists only takes a
fraction of time, even ones that are much larger. There are no old
queue files around, no exceptions being thrown, no process running at
100% CPU load during delivery, nothing shunted - it's just slow.

As a quick workaround, I've increased the overall parallelism, as Ian
Eiloart pointed out in [1], to ensure that the one slow list doesn't
block anything, so the issue isn't really "top priority" - I'd be very
grateful for any hints, though.


Stefan

[1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2009-June/020643.html

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 20 18:02:19 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:02:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>

On 2/20/2010 4:21 AM, Stefan Foerster wrote:
> 
> For all other lists on this server, the conversation between Postfix
> and Mailman is very fast paced, but for that one list, it takes almost
> one second for a recipient to be specified (which is then acknowledged
> immediately by Postfix).


So, without VERP or personalization, you should be seeing SMTP
transactions that look like

HELO
  response
MAIL FROM
  response
RCPT TO
  response
(repeated for up to SMTP_MAX_RCPTS recipients)
DATA
  response
(message data)
(MAIL FROM through DATA repeats until all recipients are delivered)
QUIT

And, if I understand what you're saying, the delay is in the RCPT
TO/response loop and it occurs between the response and the next RCPT TO.

This is really wierd. There is not even any Mailman code involved in
this. The entire sequence from MAIL FROM to end of DATA is done by one
call to the Python smtplib.SMTP.sendmail() method.

There is nothing list specific other than the envelope sender in the
sendmail() call/MAIL FROM command in Mailman's interaction with smtplib,
and if it were related somehow to that, I would expect the delay to be
in Postfix between the RCPT TO and response.


> I really don't have any idea where I coul start debugging, or how.


Nor do I really. You could look at the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9> for the way to enable smtplib debugging
(as noted in the FAQ, only for Python 2.4.x and newer). This will
produce voluminous Mailman error log output which may help pinpoint
where in smtplib.py the delay is, but probably the time-stamp
granularity is not fine enough.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Sat Feb 20 19:27:13 2010
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan Foerster)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:27:13 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>

* Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> On 2/20/2010 4:21 AM, Stefan Foerster wrote:
> So, without VERP or personalization, you should be seeing SMTP
> transactions that look like
> 
> HELO
>   response
> MAIL FROM
>   response
> RCPT TO
>   response
> (repeated for up to SMTP_MAX_RCPTS recipients)
> DATA
>   response
> (message data)
> (MAIL FROM through DATA repeats until all recipients are delivered)
> QUIT

Yes. I assume you wanted me to check if there were any errors in this
dialogue - but there are none. Neither logfiles from the Python
smtplib, nor the the Postfix logs. The TCP caputure didn't show any
errors, too. And yes, I verified that there really isn't any VERP or
personalization involved (again, I read Postfix logs ("nrcpt=<large
number">) and TCP streams).

> And, if I understand what you're saying, the delay is in the RCPT
> TO/response loop and it occurs between the response and the next RCPT TO.

Yes. From debuglevel(1) logs:

Feb 20 19:03:15 2010 qrunner(7551): send:   'rcpt TO:<recipient1 at example.com>\r\n' 
Feb 20 19:03:15 2010 qrunner(7551): reply:   '250 2.1.5 Ok\r\n' 
Feb 20 19:03:15 2010 qrunner(7551): reply: retcode (250); Msg: 2.1.5 Ok 
Feb 20 19:03:17 2010 qrunner(7551): send:   'rcpt TO:<recipient2 at example.com>\r\n' 
Feb 20 19:03:17 2010 qrunner(7551): reply:   '250 2.1.5 Ok\r\n' 
Feb 20 19:03:17 2010 qrunner(7551): reply: retcode (250); Msg: 2.1.5 Ok 

If you want me to, I can gather detailed timing data with tcpdump
and/or wireshark.

> > I really don't have any idea where I coul start debugging, or how.
> 
> 
> Nor do I really.

Humurous remark: "That's not what you want to hear from the guy who
actually wrote the application!" ;-)

I'm running out of ideas. My Postfix smtpd(8) for mailman looks like that:

127.0.0.1:10031 inet n  -       -     -       -  smtpd
    -o mynetworks=127.0.0.0/8
    -o content_filter=
    -o smtpd_proxy_filter=
    -o receive_override_options=no_header_body_checks,no_address_mappings,no_unknown_recipient_checks
    -o smtpd_client_connection_count_limit=0
    -o smtpd_client_connection_rate_limit=0
    -o smtpd_error_sleep_time=0
    -o smtpd_soft_error_limit=1001
    -o smtpd_hard_error_limit=1000
    -o smtpd_restriction_classes=
    -o smtpd_client_restrictions=
    -o smtpd_helo_restrictions=
    -o smtpd_sender_restrictions=
    -o smtpd_recipient_restrictions=permit_mynetworks,reject
    -o smtpd_data_restrictions=
    -o smtpd_end_of_data_restrictions=
    -o smtpd_authorized_xforward_hosts=127.0.0.0/8
    -o syslog_name=postfix-mm

No magic involved here. My mm_cfg.py:

MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/mailman/private'
IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.example.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'lists.example.com'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = 0
MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist
DEB_LISTMASTER='postmaster at example.net'
SMTPPORT = 10031

I am not able to find anything that is specific to this list, and I'm
not sure where I could look further.


Stefan

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 20 21:17:56 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:17:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>

On 2/20/2010 10:27 AM, Stefan Foerster wrote:
> 
> Yes. From debuglevel(1) logs:
> 
> Feb 20 19:03:15 2010 qrunner(7551): send:   'rcpt TO:<recipient1 at example.com>\r\n' 
> Feb 20 19:03:15 2010 qrunner(7551): reply:   '250 2.1.5 Ok\r\n' 
> Feb 20 19:03:15 2010 qrunner(7551): reply: retcode (250); Msg: 2.1.5 Ok 
> Feb 20 19:03:17 2010 qrunner(7551): send:   'rcpt TO:<recipient2 at example.com>\r\n' 
> Feb 20 19:03:17 2010 qrunner(7551): reply:   '250 2.1.5 Ok\r\n' 
> Feb 20 19:03:17 2010 qrunner(7551): reply: retcode (250); Msg: 2.1.5 Ok 


So, in the above we see greater than 1 second between

reply: retcode (250); Msg: 2.1.5 Ok

and the next

send:   'rcpt TO:<recipient2 at example.com>\r\n'

but virtually nothing occurs between those two events. We are in the
sendmail method in a for loop over the recipient list. The first of
those two messages is written at the end of getreply() which returns to
rcpt() which returns to the for loop which checks the status and calls
rcpt() again with the next recipient. rcpt() calls putcmd() which calls
send() which writes the second message before doing anything else. There
are no system calls of any kind (other than writing the messages
themselves, but the delay exists without logging) in between those two
messages.


> If you want me to, I can gather detailed timing data with tcpdump
> and/or wireshark.


Presumably it will just show the delay between the response to one RCPT
TO and the sending of the next RCPT TO. The delay in the above log
narrows it even further.

And none of this is list specific, yet it only affects one list.

You could try strace or ?? on the OutgoingRunner, but I don't know what
that might show beyond what we already know.

Does this delay occur uniformly over the entire list, or only within
some group of recipients?

You could try running OutgoingRunner with Python's trace module
<http://docs.python.org/library/trace.html#command-line-usage>, e.g.

python -m trace [trace opts] bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1

To do this, you'd probably want to stop OutgoingRunner(s), post to the
list and then stop Mailman so you have only the one message to this list
in the out/ queue, and then run the trace as above, but I would only do
this as a last ditch effort, because I'm not sure it would be helpful.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Sat Feb 20 21:56:07 2010
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan Foerster)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:56:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>

* Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> Does this delay occur uniformly over the entire list, or only within
> some group of recipients?

It occurs for all recipients, more or less - sometimes, it gets about
5 recipients done per second, but that's still far too slow.

> You could try running OutgoingRunner with Python's trace module
> <http://docs.python.org/library/trace.html#command-line-usage>, e.g.
> 
> python -m trace [trace opts] bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1
> 
> To do this, you'd probably want to stop OutgoingRunner(s), post to the
> list and then stop Mailman so you have only the one message to this list
> in the out/ queue, and then run the trace as above, but I would only do
> this as a last ditch effort, because I'm not sure it would be helpful.

I fear I've got a decision to make here: To "fix" that problem, I'd
normally simply export the recipient list and recreate the mailing
list thereafter. But since we don't know what causes this behaviour, I
can't be sure that my backups include all files I need to recreate
that problem on a different machine for debugging purposes.

So, if you are personally interested in this, I would talk to a lawyer
to find a way how I can legally provide you with a copy of every file
that is in any way related to this list.

If you are not _that_ interested, I'd just go ahead and wipe that
list (and cross fingers).

Thank you for your time and your insightful comments.


Stefan

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Sat Feb 20 22:12:36 2010
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:12:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <20100220211236.GH18509@charite.de>

* Stefan Foerster <cite+mailman-users at incertum.net>:

> I fear I've got a decision to make here: To "fix" that problem, I'd
> normally simply export the recipient list and recreate the mailing list
> thereafter. 

Is this guaranteed to help?
Have you tried this?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From barry at python.org  Sat Feb 20 22:14:52 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:14:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <20100220161452.1ebaaec8@freewill.wooz.org>

On Feb 20, 2010, at 09:56 PM, Stefan Foerster wrote:

>I fear I've got a decision to make here: To "fix" that problem, I'd
>normally simply export the recipient list and recreate the mailing
>list thereafter. But since we don't know what causes this behaviour, I
>can't be sure that my backups include all files I need to recreate
>that problem on a different machine for debugging purposes.
>
>So, if you are personally interested in this, I would talk to a lawyer
>to find a way how I can legally provide you with a copy of every file
>that is in any way related to this list.
>
>If you are not _that_ interested, I'd just go ahead and wipe that
>list (and cross fingers).
>
>Thank you for your time and your insightful comments.

Have you tried any of the Postfix debugging strategies?

http://www.postfix.org/DEBUG_README.html

-Barry
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 835 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100220/a4a6b8b7/attachment.pgp>

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Sat Feb 20 22:17:01 2010
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:17:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100220161452.1ebaaec8@freewill.wooz.org>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<20100220161452.1ebaaec8@freewill.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20100220211700.GJ18509@charite.de>

* Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org>:

> Have you tried any of the Postfix debugging strategies?
> 
> http://www.postfix.org/DEBUG_README.html

Yes he did.
Stefan usually knows what he's doing :)

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From barry at list.org  Sat Feb 20 22:20:01 2010
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:20:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100220211700.GJ18509@charite.de>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<20100220161452.1ebaaec8@freewill.wooz.org>
	<20100220211700.GJ18509@charite.de>
Message-ID: <20100220162001.7a742d50@freewill.wooz.org>

On Feb 20, 2010, at 10:17 PM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

>> Have you tried any of the Postfix debugging strategies?
>> 
>> http://www.postfix.org/DEBUG_README.html
>
>Yes he did.
>Stefan usually knows what he's doing :)

Ah, sorry about that!

culling-inbox-during-pycon-talk-ly y'rs,
-Barry
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 835 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100220/80a76659/attachment.pgp>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 20 22:27:45 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:27:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>

On 2/20/2010 12:56 PM, Stefan Foerster wrote:
> 
> I fear I've got a decision to make here: To "fix" that problem, I'd
> normally simply export the recipient list and recreate the mailing
> list thereafter. But since we don't know what causes this behaviour, I
> can't be sure that my backups include all files I need to recreate
> that problem on a different machine for debugging purposes.


Assuming your list doesn't use any custom MemberAdaptor, the
lists/LISTNAME/config.pck file is the only list specific thing that
could be involved. These get continuously updated, bet since the problem
is persistent, any one since the problem started should do.

OF course, if you just drop this config.pck into some other Mailman
installation for testing, there's no guarantee you'd see the problem. At
a minimum, you'd want the same Mailman version and Python version. I
think you said you'd tried a different Postfix and it didn't change things.


> So, if you are personally interested in this, I would talk to a lawyer
> to find a way how I can legally provide you with a copy of every file
> that is in any way related to this list.


As I said, I think it would just be the config.pck. Everything else is
open source software, but I don't think I want it. It's not that I'm not
curious because I definitely am, but I don't want to accidentally send
mail to any of the list members. I suppose I could just create a pseudo
MTA to listen on the SMTPPORT you use and just respond with 250 to every
message.

Actually, you could try that too and see what it does with your list.
I'll make a little Python script for that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Feb 20 22:51:34 2010
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:51:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <867C14E3-4768-4AF6-81AE-0B936D070E17@shub-internet.org>

On Feb 20, 2010, at 3:27 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> As I said, I think it would just be the config.pck. Everything else is
> open source software, but I don't think I want it. It's not that I'm not
> curious because I definitely am, but I don't want to accidentally send
> mail to any of the list members.

Another test would be to break up the large list into a number of smaller sub-lists with an umbrella list.  That would allow Mailman to have a lot more internal parallelism, and not get into lock synchronization issues over config.pck.  You could also run multiple sets of qrunners, if you split things correctly according to the "powers of 2" rule.

>                                   I suppose I could just create a pseudo
> MTA to listen on the SMTPPORT you use and just respond with 250 to every
> message.
> 
> Actually, you could try that too and see what it does with your list.
> I'll make a little Python script for that.

Much simpler solution here is to use the "smtpsink" program that Wietse supplies as part of the test harness for postfix.

--
Brad Knowles <bradknowles at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From barry at list.org  Sat Feb 20 22:38:38 2010
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:38:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20100220163838.6178360c@freewill.wooz.org>

On Feb 20, 2010, at 01:27 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>As I said, I think it would just be the config.pck. Everything else is
>open source software, but I don't think I want it. It's not that I'm not
>curious because I definitely am, but I don't want to accidentally send
>mail to any of the list members. I suppose I could just create a pseudo
>MTA to listen on the SMTPPORT you use and just respond with 250 to every
>message.
>
>Actually, you could try that too and see what it does with your list.
>I'll make a little Python script for that.

Take a look at lazr.smtptest, which is what MM3 uses in its test framework.

https://edge.launchpad.net/lazr.smtptest

-Barry
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 835 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100220/1a46bee3/attachment.pgp>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 20 23:00:31 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:00:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100220163838.6178360c@freewill.wooz.org>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>	<4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>
	<20100220163838.6178360c@freewill.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <4B805B7F.8080900@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2/20/2010 1:38 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> 
> Take a look at lazr.smtptest, which is what MM3 uses in its test framework.
> 
> https://edge.launchpad.net/lazr.smtptest


Thanks Barry,

That's helpful.

- -- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32)

iEYEARECAAYFAkuAW38ACgkQVVuXXpU7hpPjAwCgt/hrFoAVDODerkHiYjdKFnWy
XI4An2+HFKurip8yffCOdEJeHx/BkMBO
=6tdf
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Sat Feb 20 23:01:08 2010
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan Foerster)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:01:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100220161452.1ebaaec8@freewill.wooz.org>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<20100220161452.1ebaaec8@freewill.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20100220220108.GH28326@mail.incertum.net>

* Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org>:
> On Feb 20, 2010, at 09:56 PM, Stefan Foerster wrote:
> >So, if you are personally interested in this, I would talk to a lawyer
> >to find a way how I can legally provide you with a copy of every file
> >that is in any way related to this list.
> >
> >If you are not _that_ interested, I'd just go ahead and wipe that
> >list (and cross fingers).
> >
> >Thank you for your time and your insightful comments.
> 
> Have you tried any of the Postfix debugging strategies?
> 
> http://www.postfix.org/DEBUG_README.html

As expected, Postfix is not the culprit. Delivery to smtp-sink is
running at the speed of molasses, too.


Stefan

From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Sat Feb 20 23:10:32 2010
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan Foerster)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:10:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20100220221032.GI28326@mail.incertum.net>

* Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> On 2/20/2010 12:56 PM, Stefan Foerster wrote:
> > So, if you are personally interested in this, I would talk to a lawyer
> > to find a way how I can legally provide you with a copy of every file
> > that is in any way related to this list.
> 
> As I said, I think it would just be the config.pck. Everything else is
> open source software, but I don't think I want it. It's not that I'm not
> curious because I definitely am, but I don't want to accidentally send
> mail to any of the list members. I suppose I could just create a pseudo
> MTA to listen on the SMTPPORT you use and just respond with 250 to every
> message.

A plan! I will have a look at the wiki to see how I go about moving a
list to another host. Then, tomorrow morning (it's 11pm here), I'll
setup a VM, install the same set of packages and copy over anything
that is closely mailman related.

> Actually, you could try that too and see what it does with your list.
> I'll make a little Python script for that.

I did the testing with smtp-sink, which is running just fine. I'll
report back if I can reproduce the problem on the virtual machine.

Ralf just had the idea to cimpare the output from "config_list" to
that of another announce-only list, but apart from owners, messages
and the ususal stuff, there is absolutely no difference.


Stefan

From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Sat Feb 20 23:15:15 2010
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan Foerster)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:15:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <867C14E3-4768-4AF6-81AE-0B936D070E17@shub-internet.org>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>
	<867C14E3-4768-4AF6-81AE-0B936D070E17@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <20100220221515.GJ28326@mail.incertum.net>

* Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>:
> On Feb 20, 2010, at 3:27 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> > As I said, I think it would just be the config.pck. Everything
> > else is open source software, but I don't think I want it. It's
> > not that I'm not curious because I definitely am, but I don't want
> > to accidentally send mail to any of the list members.
> 
> Another test would be to break up the large list into a number of
> smaller sub-lists with an umbrella list.  That would allow Mailman
> to have a lot more internal parallelism, and not get into lock
> synchronization issues over config.pck.  You could also run multiple
> sets of qrunners, if you split things correctly according to the
> "powers of 2" rule.

What is a "smaller sub-list"? The list in question does only hold 11k
recipients, which is not exactly large. Some off my SVN announce lists
are much larger.


Stefan

From stucki at mi.fu-berlin.de  Sun Feb 21 00:05:00 2010
From: stucki at mi.fu-berlin.de (Chr. von Stuckrad)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:05:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100220221515.GJ28326@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>
	<867C14E3-4768-4AF6-81AE-0B936D070E17@shub-internet.org>
	<20100220221515.GJ28326@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <20100220230500.GT11549@localhost.mi.fu-berlin.de>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100221/debf275a/attachment.ksh>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 21 03:26:07 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:26:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about pipermail archive threading.
Message-ID: <PC19520100220182607014054916ed3@msapiro>

Mailman's pipermail archives are threaded based on In-Reply-To: and
maybe References: headers. It turns out the code always had a fallback
to thread by Subject: if there were no In-Reply-To: or References:
headers, but this fallback never worked due to a bug.

I have recently committed a fix to the 2.1 branch for the bug, so
starting with the next release, fallback to threading by subject
should work.

I have a question however. The current (fixed) code does the following:

if the current message has In-Reply-To:
    thread it to the In-Reply-To message if that message exists in
    the current volume
else if the current message has References:
    thread it to to the most recent existing message in the current
    volume in References
else
    thread the current message to the oldest message in the current
    volume with matching Subject.

The subject threading to "oldest" won't always be correct, but the only
reasonable alternative is "newest" and that won't always be correct
either, and I think either alternative is better than none. That's not
my question.

My question is the above logic implies that if the current message has
an In-Reply-To and the replied to message is not in the archive, the
message won't be threaded even if it has a References: to a message in
the archive.

This occurs often. A posts; B replies off list to A; A replies to B and
Cc's the list. Should A's reply to B be threaded with A's original
post? I think it should, and it can be by References or even Subject,
but I wonder if I'm overlooking some other cases in which it shouldn't
be done.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Feb 21 07:13:26 2010
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:13:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100220221515.GJ28326@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>
	<867C14E3-4768-4AF6-81AE-0B936D070E17@shub-internet.org>
	<20100220221515.GJ28326@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <ACB9390D-AEA7-4527-A0E4-BADEBEB8E7A2@shub-internet.org>

On Feb 20, 2010, at 4:15 PM, Stefan Foerster wrote:

> What is a "smaller sub-list"? The list in question does only hold 11k
> recipients, which is not exactly large. Some off my SVN announce lists
> are much larger.

Yeah, but an announce-only list that is larger doesn't really compare to a discussion list which is smaller.  The smaller discussion list is likely to be much more active, and if you multiply the number of unique messages posted to the list by the number of subscribers, you may find that the smaller discussion list actually results in considerably more traffic than the larger announce-only list.

Now, I'm not saying that this is definitely the case.  And for just 11k users, it does seem unlikely.  But this is a possibility that would be useful to eliminate. 

In your case, I think I'd probably first try the multiple queue-runners thing by doing powers-of-2 splits.  Regretfully, this is not well documented, but I think there is one or two FAQ Wiki questions that discuss it.

--
Brad Knowles <bradknowles at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Sun Feb 21 11:15:20 2010
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan Foerster)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:15:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100220221032.GI28326@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>
	<20100220221032.GI28326@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <20100221101520.GK28326@mail.incertum.net>

* Stefan Foerster <cite+mailman-users at incertum.net>:
> * Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> > As I said, I think it would just be the config.pck. Everything else is
> > open source software, but I don't think I want it. It's not that I'm not
> > curious because I definitely am, but I don't want to accidentally send
> > mail to any of the list members. I suppose I could just create a pseudo
> > MTA to listen on the SMTPPORT you use and just respond with 250 to every
> > message.
> 
> A plan! I will have a look at the wiki to see how I go about moving a
> list to another host. Then, tomorrow morning (it's 11pm here), I'll
> setup a VM, install the same set of packages and copy over anything
> that is closely mailman related.

Bad news. I was not able to reproduce the problem on a VM, using
backups from the day the problem first occured. And worse, this night,
while I slept a troubled, disturbed sleep, dreaming of SMTP dialogues,
the list roster changed (one new member)- and the problem is gone.

I've been doing system administration tasks since 1997, and this still
feels more like voodoo than science, sometimes.


Stefan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Feb 21 11:43:22 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:43:22 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Question about pipermail archive threading.
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100220182607014054916ed3@msapiro>
References: <PC19520100220182607014054916ed3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <877hq6j2d1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > My question is the above logic implies that if the current message has
 > an In-Reply-To and the replied to message is not in the archive, the
 > message won't be threaded even if it has a References: to a message in
 > the archive.

That's surely wrong.

 > This occurs often. A posts; B replies off list to A; A replies to B and
 > Cc's the list. Should A's reply to B be threaded with A's original
 > post? I think it should, and it can be by References or even Subject,
 > but I wonder if I'm overlooking some other cases in which it shouldn't
 > be done.

The only time I can think of where I wouldn't want you to thread by
References if available is in case of thread hijacking, but that's
obviously not something current technology can deal with.

In the case of subject, I can think of many reasons why I wouldn't
want threading by subject, but they're not as strong as the advantages
to threading by subject if nothing else is available.

BTW, IMHO the definitive word on threading algorithms is still Jamie
Zawinski's:  http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html.

From barry at python.org  Sun Feb 21 15:38:47 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:38:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100220220108.GH28326@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<20100220161452.1ebaaec8@freewill.wooz.org>
	<20100220220108.GH28326@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <20100221093847.04a31360@freewill.wooz.org>

On Feb 20, 2010, at 11:01 PM, Stefan Foerster wrote:

>As expected, Postfix is not the culprit. Delivery to smtp-sink is
>running at the speed of molasses, too.

Now this is getting interesting <wink>.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-February/068829.html

has some perplexing numbers.  If you're really seeing a 2 second delay between
the reading of one RCPT reply to the next, then this points to problems in
Python or its smtplib module.  I did a quick search through the Python bug
tracker and nothing jumped out at me.

As Mark said, Mailman basically just calls SMTP.sendmail() to send the message
to each chunk of recipients.  The part of that method that sends the RCPTs to
Postfix is this code (in Py2.6):

        for each in to_addrs:
            (code,resp)=self.rcpt(each, rcpt_options)
            if (code != 250) and (code != 251):
                senderrs[each]=(code,resp)

It's hard to see what would cause that loop to sit there between the 19:03:15
retcode and 19:03:17 send.  You're not even touching the socket between these
calls.  Looking at putcmd() and getreply() and the way they're called, I just
don't see any opportunity for hanging.  I suppose it's possible you're setting
Python issues, but that doesn't really explain why it would affect only this
list.

I probably missed it but what platform are you running on?  What version of
Python?

I see that you've worked around the problem, which of course only adds oddness.
If you're still able and interested in debugging this, I can think of a couple
of things to do.  Let me know and I'll lay out a few ideas.

-Barry

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 835 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100221/205c59b3/attachment.pgp>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 21 22:05:19 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:05:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100221101520.GK28326@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>	<4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>	<20100220221032.GI28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<20100221101520.GK28326@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <4B81A00F.7040702@msapiro.net>

On 2/21/2010 2:15 AM, Stefan Foerster wrote:
> 
> Bad news. I was not able to reproduce the problem on a VM, using
> backups from the day the problem first occured. And worse, this night,
> while I slept a troubled, disturbed sleep, dreaming of SMTP dialogues,
> the list roster changed (one new member)- and the problem is gone.


Since I couldn't understand what possibly caused the problem in the
first place, I'm not totally surprised.


> I've been doing system administration tasks since 1997, and this still
> feels more like voodoo than science, sometimes.


Yes, it does, but I've found that there usually is an explanation. It's
just that finding it may not be easy.

You could try taking the problem list's config.pck from the backup and
dropping that into a lists/ directory with a different name (effectively
creating a new list with the exact configuration of the old one).

Then you could install this withlist script in Mailman's bin/ directory
as bin/test_smtp.py

-----------------------------------------------------------
from Mailman import mm_cfg
mm_cfg.SMTPPORT = 10123   # or whatever you want
from Mailman import Message
from Mailman.Handlers import CalcRecips
from Mailman.Handlers import SMTPDirect

def test_smtp(mlist):
    msg = Message.Message()
    msg['From'] = 'the usual poster to the list'
    msg.set_payload('message body')
    msgdata = {}
    CalcRecips.process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
    SMTPDirect.process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
-----------------------------------------------------------

And then run smtp-sink on the port defined in the script and run

bin/withlist -r test_smtp listname

where listname is the name of the new lists/ directory into which you
put the old config.pck. This will short circuit a lot of Mailman stuff
and strip it down to building the recipient list and sending the mail to
the smtp-sink port.

Possibly you've already done something similar, but this would give you
a low impact way to determine if you can duplicate the problem with the
old config.pck.

Unfortunately, I don't have any good ideas as to how to proceed from
there, even if this does duplicate the problem, but Barry indicated he
has a couple of ideas.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From clay.beyer at nkadd.org  Mon Feb 22 17:20:05 2010
From: clay.beyer at nkadd.org (Beyer, Clay)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:20:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best Mail Program to Use w/ Mailman
Message-ID: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7A99@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>

We are setting up a Debian web server and would like to use Mailman to
manage a couple of mailing lists that we control. After some initial
complications with Mailman and Postfix we decided to uninstall and
reinstall everything, before we get going again, I just wanted to get an
idea of what the best mail program, taken from the Mailman
Documentation, to use with Mailman... Postfix, Qmail, Exim, or Sendmail.


 

Thanks,

ClayB

 


From --- REDACTED --- Mon Feb 22 16:49:21 2010
From: --- REDACTED ---
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:49:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our donation by paypal - we desire a listing
Message-ID: <1032461AFEC74EE4B354BB8FBFC2EC03@besitzere4905b>

Hello GNU-Team,
 
a few minutes ago we donate your organisation $500 by paypal.
 
You write on your site
https://my.fsf.org/donate/directed-donations/gnumailman: ...For donations of
$500 or more, if desired, a listing on our "Thank GNUs" web page. 
 
We desire a listing. Can you list us like "Best Western Hotel Erb" on your
site  <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html>
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html?
 
Suggestion:
 
Thanks go out to:
.
.
.
--- REDACTED ---
 
Thank you very much!
 
Best regards
 

 

From martin at folkemusik.dk  Mon Feb 22 14:37:38 2010
From: martin at folkemusik.dk (Martin Ibsgaard)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:37:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Specific geographical membership in the maillist;
	Folkemusiklisten
Message-ID: <7C84E551CAC4460C8E8CC75230826238@ffs2006>

Hi mailman,

 

I have a question from a subscriber, who asks if it?s a possibility to
narrow her receiving mails down to a specific geographical area.

She just wants to receive mails on Folkemusiklisten (typical mails about
upcoming shows and concerts) from the area where she lives.

Can I set the mail list up in mailman, so I can accommodate her request? It
should be a feature, where the subscribers themselves can enable this and
not as an implied feature for everybody, because many still prefer to
receive mails, covering the whole country. My thoughts on this, is that it
can?t, because the sender is not registered by geographical area, but only
by his or hers mail address.

 

Kind regards

 

Martin Ibsgaard

Information Services

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Folkemusikkens F?lles Sekretariat
Saltholmsgade 22
8000 ?rhus C
Tlf: +45 70225070
www.folkemusik.dk <http://www.folkemusik.dk/> 

 

 


From millspj at bellsouth.net  Mon Feb 22 17:09:28 2010
From: millspj at bellsouth.net (PJ Mills User)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:09:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Macs & Mailman software
Message-ID: <C7A81668.626A%millspj@bellsouth.net>

Does Mailman software work with Macs?
Sincerely,
PJ Mills



From pegasusii at verizon.net  Mon Feb 22 20:18:40 2010
From: pegasusii at verizon.net (PegasusII)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:18:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SSPS-L mailing list using Mailman
Message-ID: <5FBD8DC146F0477FA7D5ECD7BE586D5F@GRN.local>

 

My organization, the South Shore Power Squadron, maintains a mailing list
using Mailman. We recently had a falling out with several of our members.
They are now using the list to communicate with its subscribers and advance
their own agenda. Is there anything that can be done by the list
administrators to mitigate this? As it is an open list, unsubscribing these
members would be pointless. Is there a way to "close" the list or
filter/force a moderator review of submissions from certain members?

 

Please advise.

 

Thank you,

 

Ralph Schwartz

Commander

South Shore Power Squadron

 


From tobias.faulstich at tu-dortmund.de  Tue Feb 23 15:25:33 2010
From: tobias.faulstich at tu-dortmund.de (Tobias Faulstich)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:25:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Create new mailinglist from Java programm
Message-ID: <000901cab494$126d1a60$37474f20$@faulstich@tu-dortmund.de>

Hello everybody, 

 

I have a question about the possible interfaces from  mailman. We want to
connect our software written in java with our existing mailman server. To be
precisely, we want to create new mailing list with our java program. 

 

So we need some kind of interface to access the mailman. When it's possible,
we don't want to start a  Process p = Runtime.getRuntime().exec to run the
commandline tool from mailman, because in that case we need a separate ssh
tunnel through our firewalls  to our mailman server.

 

In the Wiki I read about the new REST interface
http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/REST+Interface. Is it  already available or
in development.  If not, is it possible to send a suitable POST request to
the webinterface from mailman to create new mailinglist?

 

Thanks for your help,

 

  Kind regards,

   Tobias Faulstich


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Tue Feb 23 16:21:28 2010
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:21:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best Mail Program to Use w/ Mailman
In-Reply-To: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7A99@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
References: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7A99@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
Message-ID: <20100223152127.GH1814@charite.de>

* Beyer, Clay <clay.beyer at nkadd.org>:
> We are setting up a Debian web server and would like to use Mailman to
> manage a couple of mailing lists that we control. After some initial
> complications with Mailman and Postfix we decided to uninstall and
> reinstall everything, before we get going again, I just wanted to get an
> idea of what the best mail program, taken from the Mailman
> Documentation, to use with Mailman... Postfix, Qmail, Exim, or Sendmail.

Postfix
That's what we're using here at python.org

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Tue Feb 23 16:21:56 2010
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:21:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SSPS-L mailing list using Mailman
In-Reply-To: <5FBD8DC146F0477FA7D5ECD7BE586D5F@GRN.local>
References: <5FBD8DC146F0477FA7D5ECD7BE586D5F@GRN.local>
Message-ID: <20100223152155.GI1814@charite.de>

* PegasusII <pegasusii at verizon.net>:
>  
> 
> My organization, the South Shore Power Squadron, maintains a mailing list
> using Mailman. We recently had a falling out with several of our members.
> They are now using the list to communicate with its subscribers and advance
> their own agenda. Is there anything that can be done by the list
> administrators to mitigate this? As it is an open list, unsubscribing these
> members would be pointless. Is there a way to "close" the list or
> filter/force a moderator review of submissions from certain members?

Simply mark them as moderated

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From brian at emwd.com  Tue Feb 23 16:29:19 2010
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:29:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SSPS-L mailing list using Mailman
In-Reply-To: <5FBD8DC146F0477FA7D5ECD7BE586D5F@GRN.local>
References: <5FBD8DC146F0477FA7D5ECD7BE586D5F@GRN.local>
Message-ID: <00e201cab49c$f9507d20$ebf17760$@com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-
> users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of PegasusII
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:19 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] SSPS-L mailing list using Mailman
> 
> 
> 
> My organization, the South Shore Power Squadron, maintains a mailing
> list
> using Mailman. We recently had a falling out with several of our
> members.
> They are now using the list to communicate with its subscribers and
> advance
> their own agenda. Is there anything that can be done by the list
> administrators to mitigate this? As it is an open list, unsubscribing
> these
> members would be pointless. Is there a way to "close" the list or
> filter/force a moderator review of submissions from certain members?
> 
> 


You should be able to login into the list administrator interface and check
the "mod" box for those members on the membership management page. That will
put those members on moderator status.

Thank you for using EMWD.

Regards,
Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com

--------------------------------------------------------
Mailman hosting @ http://www.mailmanhost.com


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Tue Feb 23 16:35:48 2010
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:35:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Macs & Mailman software
In-Reply-To: <C7A81668.626A%millspj@bellsouth.net>
References: <C7A81668.626A%millspj@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.64.1002230927500.63592@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010, PJ Mills User wrote:

> Does Mailman software work with Macs?

Yes. Macintoshes have Unix as their underlying operating system so it is 
very possible. If you check the FAQ or search the archives, you will find 
much on the topic.

Apple includes a modified version of Mailman with Mac OS X Server. Due to 
the changes Apple has made, it is unsupported by this group.

Mailman can be installed and built from source on Mac OS X client. In the 
archives, you will find much on doing so including instructions I wrote on 
installing it on Tiger and notes on the upgrade to Leopard.


-- Larry Stone
    lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 23 16:50:43 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:50:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our donation by paypal - we desire a listing
In-Reply-To: <1032461AFEC74EE4B354BB8FBFC2EC03@besitzere4905b>
Message-ID: <PC1952010022307504301561ba83607@msapiro>

Holger Joachim wrote:
>
>a few minutes ago we donate your organisation $500 by paypal.


Thank you very much. We appreciate it.


>You write on your site
>https://my.fsf.org/donate/directed-donations/gnumailman: ...For donations of
>$500 or more, if desired, a listing on our "Thank GNUs" web page.


The Thank GNUs page referred to in the donation form is at
<http://www.gnu.org/thankgnus/thankgnus.html> and unless you checked
the "Do not publicly acknowledge my donation" box, listing there
should be automatic.


>We desire a listing. Can you list us like "Best Western Hotel Erb" on your
>site  <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html>


You are already listed there because of your previous donation and your
use of Mailman. Thank you again for your support.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 23 16:56:51 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:56:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Specific geographical membership in the
 maillist; Folkemusiklisten
In-Reply-To: <7C84E551CAC4460C8E8CC75230826238@ffs2006>
References: <7C84E551CAC4460C8E8CC75230826238@ffs2006>
Message-ID: <4B83FAC3.5090509@msapiro.net>

On 2/22/2010 5:37 AM, Martin Ibsgaard wrote:
> 
> I have a question from a subscriber, who asks if it?s a possibility to
> narrow her receiving mails down to a specific geographical area.
> 
> She just wants to receive mails on Folkemusiklisten (typical mails about
> upcoming shows and concerts) from the area where she lives.
> 
> Can I set the mail list up in mailman, so I can accommodate her request? It
> should be a feature, where the subscribers themselves can enable this and
> not as an implied feature for everybody, because many still prefer to
> receive mails, covering the whole country. My thoughts on this, is that it
> can?t, because the sender is not registered by geographical area, but only
> by his or hers mail address.


You might be able to use Mailman's Topics feature for this if the area
is mentioned in the Subject: of the post or in a Keywords: line at the
beginning of the body. Otherwise, there is no way.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 23 17:08:26 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:08:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best Mail Program to Use w/ Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20100223152127.GH1814@charite.de>
References: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7A99@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
	<20100223152127.GH1814@charite.de>
Message-ID: <4B83FD7A.3090607@msapiro.net>

On 2/23/2010 7:21 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> * Beyer, Clay <clay.beyer at nkadd.org>:
>> We are setting up a Debian web server and would like to use Mailman to
>> manage a couple of mailing lists that we control. After some initial
>> complications with Mailman and Postfix we decided to uninstall and
>> reinstall everything, before we get going again, I just wanted to get an
>> idea of what the best mail program, taken from the Mailman
>> Documentation, to use with Mailman... Postfix, Qmail, Exim, or Sendmail.
> 
> Postfix
> That's what we're using here at python.org


And with Postfix, use Mailman's Postfix integration for automatic alias
generation. Don't use postfix-to-mailman.py.

Exim, with a Mailman router and transport per
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html> is another good choice for
ease of integration with Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 23 17:19:25 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:19:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Create new mailinglist from Java programm
In-Reply-To: <000901cab494$126d1a60$37474f20$@faulstich@tu-dortmund.de>
Message-ID: <PC195201002230819250328d059e721@msapiro>

Tobias Faulstich wrote:
>
>In the Wiki I read about the new REST interface
>http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/REST+Interface. Is it  already available or
>in development.  If not, is it possible to send a suitable POST request to
>the webinterface from mailman to create new mailinglist?


No. The REST interface is in Mailman 3 which is not production ready
yet.

Just look at the http://www.example.com/mailman/create (adjusted for
your installation) page and POST the same things it does.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From clay.beyer at nkadd.org  Tue Feb 23 17:42:12 2010
From: clay.beyer at nkadd.org (Beyer, Clay)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:42:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
Message-ID: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AA0@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>

Hello,

 

Have successfully set up a Debian server and installed and configured
Postfix and have been trying to integrate Mailman. I am receiving the
following errors during the apt-get install mailman process:

 

Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qmail-to-mailman.py (2): No such file or directory

Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py (2): No such file or
directory

 

Again, this is happening during install and it seems like the install is
failing or not completing properly. I have tried uninstalling and
reinstalling but continue to receive the same I/O errors. Can anyone
assist?

 

Thanks,

ClayB

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 23 18:15:25 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:15:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
In-Reply-To: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AA0@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952010022309152501871663bfd4@msapiro>

Beyer, Clay wrote:
>
>Have successfully set up a Debian server and installed and configured
>Postfix and have been trying to integrate Mailman. I am receiving the
>following errors during the apt-get install mailman process:
>
> 
>
>Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qmail-to-mailman.py (2): No such file or directory
>
>Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py (2): No such file or
>directory


You clearly don't need qmail-to-mailman.py, and while Debian seems to
like postfix-to-mailman.py (which is not distributed even as
contributed source by the GNU Mailman project), I don't recommend it.


>Again, this is happening during install and it seems like the install is
>failing or not completing properly. I have tried uninstalling and
>reinstalling but continue to receive the same I/O errors. Can anyone
>assist?


This is a Debian packaging issue. If you wish to install Debian's
Mailman package, you'll have to take this up with Debian.

If you download and install the 2.1.13 tarball from
<https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/2.1.13> or
<http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/>, it will be less convenient, but we
can help you with any installation issues.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jlieber at goengineer.com  Tue Feb 23 18:14:47 2010
From: jlieber at goengineer.com (John Lieber)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:14:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Macs & Mailman software
In-Reply-To: <C7A81668.626A%millspj@bellsouth.net>
References: <C7A81668.626A%millspj@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <49314D57A0408341864E8641BB5285DC7BAC4DD068@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>

Funny you should ask.  I have just finished setting up a server on a mac...  Questions?

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+jlieber=goengineer.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+jlieber=goengineer.com at python.org] On Behalf Of PJ Mills User
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 8:09 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Macs & Mailman software

Does Mailman software work with Macs?
Sincerely,
PJ Mills


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jlieber%40goengineer.com

From clay.beyer at nkadd.org  Tue Feb 23 18:48:09 2010
From: clay.beyer at nkadd.org (Beyer, Clay)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:48:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
References: <PC1952010022309152501871663bfd4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AA1@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>


Beyer, Clay wrote:
>>
>>Have successfully set up a Debian server and installed and configured
>>Postfix and have been trying to integrate Mailman. I am receiving the
>>following errors during the apt-get install mailman process:
>>
>> 
>>
>>Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
>>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qmail-to-mailman.py (2): No such file or
directory
>>
>>Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
>>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py (2): No such file or
>>directory


>You clearly don't need qmail-to-mailman.py, and while Debian seems to
>like postfix-to-mailman.py (which is not distributed even as
>contributed source by the GNU Mailman project), I don't recommend it.


>>Again, this is happening during install and it seems like the install
is
>>failing or not completing properly. I have tried uninstalling and
>>reinstalling but continue to receive the same I/O errors. Can anyone
>>assist?


>This is a Debian packaging issue. If you wish to install Debian's
>Mailman package, you'll have to take this up with Debian.

How would I go about completely removing the current, albeit, partial
install of mailman? Is there a way to do any kind of complete removal
other than just searching and deleting (after an apt-get remove)? I am a
bit of a Linux beginner, so I am not entirely sure how the tarball
installations works, but I am betting that is simpler to figure out and
will ask if I need any assistance.

>If you download and install the 2.1.13 tarball from
><https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/2.1.13> or
><http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/>, it will be less convenient, but we
>can help you with any installation issues.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Tue Feb 23 18:46:40 2010
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:46:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best Mail Program to Use w/ Mailman
In-Reply-To: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7A99@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
References: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7A99@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
Message-ID: <D76869AD7DF0F742866D1573A514306159E19DA19F@ELROND.hodgsonfamily.org>

Beyer, Clay wrote:

>We are setting up a Debian web server and would like to use Mailman to
>manage a couple of mailing lists that we control. After some initial
>complications with Mailman and Postfix we decided to uninstall and
>reinstall everything, before we get going again, I just wanted to get an
>idea of what the best mail program, taken from the Mailman
>Documentation, to use with Mailman... Postfix, Qmail, Exim, or Sendmail.

Personally I would go with Debian's default of Exim and follow the well written instructions in the Debian package file /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian, it really is a cut and paste setup.  This basically emulates the Postfix virtual style setup, but includes the routers etc to get Exim to see the relevant virtual aliases files.

I have converted three Mailman setups that were using Postfix (on a mix of Ubuntu and FreeBSD) to this setup, and it worked fine.  In all these cases this was a separate box managing a bit of web stuff and lists, not the primary email server.

Thanks.
Andrew.



From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Tue Feb 23 19:19:30 2010
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:19:30 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
In-Reply-To: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AA1@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
References: <PC1952010022309152501871663bfd4@msapiro>
	<9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AA1@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
Message-ID: <D76869AD7DF0F742866D1573A514306159E19DA1A0@ELROND.hodgsonfamily.org>

Beyer, Clay Wrote:

>Mark Sapiro Wrote:

[...]

>>This is a Debian packaging issue. If you wish to install Debian's
>>Mailman package, you'll have to take this up with Debian.

>How would I go about completely removing the current, albeit, partial
>install of mailman? Is there a way to do any kind of complete removal
>other than just searching and deleting (after an apt-get remove)? I am a
>bit of a Linux beginner, so I am not entirely sure how the tarball
>installations works, but I am betting that is simpler to figure out and
>will ask if I need any assistance.

apt-get purge mailman, then delete files in /var/lib/mailman, /etc/mailman, /usr/lib/mailman, /usr/share/mailman and /usr/share/doc/mailman (I think that is it).  Purge should do all this for you (especially if you haven't touched any list config).

On the other hand, that is a strange error you got, and suggests you may have another underlying issue.  If you haven't got anything else on the box, you may just want to reinstall with the latest Lenny minimal server install and work upwards.

Using the Tarball is easy enough, though I always use the Debian package because I never have any issues with it.

Thanks.
Andrew.



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 23 19:19:51 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:19:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
In-Reply-To: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AA1@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
Message-ID: <PC19520100223101951071810291701@msapiro>

Beyer, Clay wrote:
>
>How would I go about completely removing the current, albeit, partial
>install of mailman? Is there a way to do any kind of complete removal
>other than just searching and deleting (after an apt-get remove)?


You could do

find / -name mailman

That should find any directories left.


>I am a
>bit of a Linux beginner, so I am not entirely sure how the tarball
>installations works, but I am betting that is simpler to figure out and
>will ask if I need any assistance.


The installation manual is in the tarball, but it is also at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html> if you want to read
it first.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From clay.beyer at nkadd.org  Tue Feb 23 20:31:33 2010
From: clay.beyer at nkadd.org (Beyer, Clay)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:31:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
References: <PC1952010022309152501871663bfd4@msapiro>
	<9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AA1@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
	<D76869AD7DF0F742866D1573A514306159E19DA1A0@ELROND.hodgsonfamily.org>
Message-ID: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AA2@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>


Beyer, Clay Wrote:

>Mark Sapiro Wrote:

[...]

>>This is a Debian packaging issue. If you wish to install Debian's
>>Mailman package, you'll have to take this up with Debian.

>How would I go about completely removing the current, albeit, partial
>install of mailman? Is there a way to do any kind of complete removal
>other than just searching and deleting (after an apt-get remove)? I am
a
>bit of a Linux beginner, so I am not entirely sure how the tarball
>installations works, but I am betting that is simpler to figure out and
>will ask if I need any assistance.

>apt-get purge mailman, then delete files in /var/lib/mailman,
/etc/mailman, /usr/lib/mailman, /usr/share/mailman and
>/usr/share/doc/mailman (I think that is it).  Purge should do all this
for you (especially if you haven't touched any >list config).

>On the other hand, that is a strange error you got, and suggests you
may have another underlying issue.  If you haven't >got anything else on
the box, you may just want to reinstall with the latest Lenny minimal
server install and work >upwards.

>Using the Tarball is easy enough, though I always use the Debian
package because I never have any issues with it.

Apt-get remove worked as well as find -name... I was able to remove
everything associated with mailman and use apt-get install mailman,
which on this occasion, worked like a charm. 

I am currently experiencing a hiccup at, documentation 6.1.1
(http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node13.html). I am
not understanding the aliases/aliases.db instructions. I, seemingly,
successfully ran /usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases but now, cannot seem to
find any data/aliases file or directory. 

Any ideas?

Thanks,
ClayB



From clay.beyer at nkadd.org  Tue Feb 23 20:34:20 2010
From: clay.beyer at nkadd.org (Beyer, Clay)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:34:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
References: <PC1952010022309152501871663bfd4@msapiro>
	<9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AA1@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
	<D76869AD7DF0F742866D1573A514306159E19DA1A0@ELROND.hodgsonfamily.org>
Message-ID: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AA3@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>

Disregard that last email... I wasn't looking in the appropriate
directory. Sorry


Beyer, Clay Wrote:

>Mark Sapiro Wrote:

[...]

>>This is a Debian packaging issue. If you wish to install Debian's
>>Mailman package, you'll have to take this up with Debian.

>How would I go about completely removing the current, albeit, partial
>install of mailman? Is there a way to do any kind of complete removal
>other than just searching and deleting (after an apt-get remove)? I am
a
>bit of a Linux beginner, so I am not entirely sure how the tarball
>installations works, but I am betting that is simpler to figure out and
>will ask if I need any assistance.

apt-get purge mailman, then delete files in /var/lib/mailman,
/etc/mailman, /usr/lib/mailman, /usr/share/mailman and
/usr/share/doc/mailman (I think that is it).  Purge should do all this
for you (especially if you haven't touched any list config).

On the other hand, that is a strange error you got, and suggests you may
have another underlying issue.  If you haven't got anything else on the
box, you may just want to reinstall with the latest Lenny minimal server
install and work upwards.

Using the Tarball is easy enough, though I always use the Debian package
because I never have any issues with it.

Thanks.
Andrew.



From johnf at net2000.com.au  Tue Feb 23 22:17:29 2010
From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:17:29 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting rid of footer ?
Message-ID: <ltg8o5phvnffauk141hilg2eieppug7re2@4ax.com>



Hi,

I am using the CPanel approach to Mailman. The footer to every post
has..

_______________________________________________
my mailing list
mylist at mydomain
http://mydomain

Is there some way to ensure that the above does NOT appear on 
every post please ? If so then where/how do I remove it please ?


Regards, John.

From clay.beyer at nkadd.org  Tue Feb 23 22:35:53 2010
From: clay.beyer at nkadd.org (Beyer, Clay)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:35:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
References: <PC1952010022309152501871663bfd4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AA7@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>

Below, you suggested not to use postfix-to-mailman.py. 

What should I use if not this? My postfix master.cf file contains the
mailman MTA lines toward the bottom...

Mailman unix n n 2 pipe
	Flags=FR user=list
argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py
	${nexthop} ${user}

This seems to be making the server go crazy, tons of processes running
at once, bogging down the server. Commenting these lines out returns the
server to normal operation, but then in my mail.info log file, I have
tons of Mail Transport Agent not found.

Please help.

ClayB

Beyer, Clay wrote:
>
>Have successfully set up a Debian server and installed and configured
>Postfix and have been trying to integrate Mailman. I am receiving the
>following errors during the apt-get install mailman process:
>
> 
>
>Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qmail-to-mailman.py (2): No such file or directory
>
>Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py (2): No such file or
>directory


You clearly don't need qmail-to-mailman.py, and while Debian seems to
like postfix-to-mailman.py (which is not distributed even as
contributed source by the GNU Mailman project), I don't recommend it.


>Again, this is happening during install and it seems like the install
is
>failing or not completing properly. I have tried uninstalling and
>reinstalling but continue to receive the same I/O errors. Can anyone
>assist?


This is a Debian packaging issue. If you wish to install Debian's
Mailman package, you'll have to take this up with Debian.

If you download and install the 2.1.13 tarball from
<https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/2.1.13> or
<http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/>, it will be less convenient, but we
can help you with any installation issues.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 23 22:53:59 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:53:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting rid of footer ?
In-Reply-To: <ltg8o5phvnffauk141hilg2eieppug7re2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100223135359085910291796@msapiro>

John Fitzsimons wrote:
>
>Is there some way to ensure that the above does NOT appear on 
>every post please ? If so then where/how do I remove it please ?


The web admin interface Non-digest options msg_footer.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 23 23:02:34 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:02:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile
In-Reply-To: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AA7@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
Message-ID: <PC19520100223140234065615116872@msapiro>

Beyer, Clay wrote:
>
>What should I use if not this? My postfix master.cf file contains the
>mailman MTA lines toward the bottom...
>
>Mailman unix n n 2 pipe
>	Flags=FR user=list
>argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py
>	${nexthop} ${user}
>
>This seems to be making the server go crazy, tons of processes running
>at once, bogging down the server. Commenting these lines out returns the
>server to normal operation, but then in my mail.info log file, I have
>tons of Mail Transport Agent not found.


You seem to have some kind of mail loop creating all these
messages/references.

That notwithstanding, You need to either remove transport_maps from
Postfix's main.cf or if there are non-mailman transports referenced in
/etc/postfix/transport or whatever transport_maps references, remove
the mailman transport entry.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From johnf at net2000.com.au  Wed Feb 24 00:25:35 2010
From: johnf at net2000.com.au (John Fitzsimons)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:25:35 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting rid of footer ?
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100223135359085910291796@msapiro>
References: <ltg8o5phvnffauk141hilg2eieppug7re2@4ax.com>
	<PC19520100223135359085910291796@msapiro>
Message-ID: <ufo8o5daiemgdbm959j0h2ee6409r6d3f9@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:53:59 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 
>John Fitzsimons wrote:

>>Is there some way to ensure that the above does NOT appear on 
>>every post please ? If so then where/how do I remove it please ?

>The web admin interface Non-digest options msg_footer.

Wow ! Truly staring me in the face. Thank you Mark for your speedy
reply.  I had hoped it would be easy to change but had ignored
anything to do with "digests" as I haven't enabled them.

As usual, your help is very much appreciated.   :-)

Regards, John.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Feb 24 07:55:59 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:55:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Specific geographical membership in the
 maillist; Folkemusiklisten
In-Reply-To: <4B83FAC3.5090509@msapiro.net>
References: <7C84E551CAC4460C8E8CC75230826238@ffs2006>
	<4B83FAC3.5090509@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <87mxyzf7gg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > On 2/22/2010 5:37 AM, Martin Ibsgaard wrote:
 > > 
 > > I have a question from a subscriber, who asks if it?s a possibility to
 > > narrow her receiving mails down to a specific geographical area.
 > > 
 > > She just wants to receive mails on Folkemusiklisten (typical mails about
 > > upcoming shows and concerts) from the area where she lives.
 > 
 > You might be able to use Mailman's Topics feature for this if the area
 > is mentioned in the Subject: of the post or in a Keywords: line at the
 > beginning of the body. Otherwise, there is no way.

Another alternative would be to have separate lists for each local area,
and have those lists also feed into regional lists or a national list.

Which way to go depends on how much manpower you have.  Mark's
suggestion is way less demanding on administration, about equally
flexible in terms of configuration, and requires somewhat more effort
from the subscribers.

From mary.lanhai at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 03:20:04 2010
From: mary.lanhai at gmail.com (mary.lanhai)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:20:04 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <D5CEC3289A5149C2808CFEFAAAD2D1F6@MARY>

Dear friend,

 

I can recieve many emails from mailman-users at python.org but I can not post
one to it. Why is full of my mind. Could you help me to find out why. I
really appreciate your help.

 

Thank you.

 

Mary


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Wed Feb 24 15:37:11 2010
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:37:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <D5CEC3289A5149C2808CFEFAAAD2D1F6@MARY>
References: <D5CEC3289A5149C2808CFEFAAAD2D1F6@MARY>
Message-ID: <20100224143711.GP14600@charite.de>

* mary.lanhai <mary.lanhai at gmail.com>:

> I can recieve many emails from mailman-users at python.org but I can not post
> one to it.

Like this one? *facepalm*

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Wed Feb 24 16:06:42 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:06:42 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <D5CEC3289A5149C2808CFEFAAAD2D1F6@MARY>
References: <D5CEC3289A5149C2808CFEFAAAD2D1F6@MARY>
Message-ID: <20100224150642.GA2968@amyl.org.uk>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 10:20:04AM +0800, mary.lanhai wrote:
> I can recieve many emails from mailman-users at python.org but I can not post
> one to it. Why is full of my mind. Could you help me to find out why. I
> really appreciate your help.

X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:35:37 +0100

may be applicable.

-- 
``The government wants to bring an end to so-called vertical drinking.''
  (from the BBC's `Today in Parliament')

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 24 16:13:22 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:13:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <D5CEC3289A5149C2808CFEFAAAD2D1F6@MARY>
Message-ID: <PC195201002240713220328932a22de@msapiro>

mary.lanhai wrote:
>
>I can recieve many emails from mailman-users at python.org but I can not post
>one to it. Why is full of my mind. Could you help me to find out why. I
>really appreciate your help.


You successfully posted this. None of your prior attempts reached the
list moderator. What did you do differently this time?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil  Wed Feb 24 17:32:48 2010
From: Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil (Hicks, Robert CTR)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:32:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam to list address
Message-ID: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1047CDBD5@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>

The email in question is from the list address and to the list address. Can I prevent that from happening? It is a "one-way" list.

Bob

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 24 17:45:43 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:45:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam to list address
In-Reply-To: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1047CDBD5@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <PC195201002240845430406182485c1@msapiro>

Hicks, Robert CTR wrote:

>The email in question is from the list address and to the list address. Can I prevent that from happening? It is a "one-way" list.


Yes. Moderate ALL list members. Make sure accept_these_nonmembers is
empty and generic_nonmember_action and member_moderation_action are
Hold or Discard.

Then post to the list using an Approved: password header or initial
body line.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/3YA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mary.lanhai at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 01:31:39 2010
From: mary.lanhai at gmail.com (Mary Ma)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:31:39 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002240713220328932a22de@msapiro>
References: <D5CEC3289A5149C2808CFEFAAAD2D1F6@MARY>
	<PC195201002240713220328932a22de@msapiro>
Message-ID: <fc53da3b1002241631w49df83d8va507934f550d6529@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Mark,

I indeed had problem before. I tried many times and would got email say,
deliver failed. I email to one of them, he suggested to contact with the
owner.

I'm also surprised this time

Anyway, finally I reach you guys.

Thank you.

Mary

2010/2/24 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

> mary.lanhai wrote:
> >
> >I can recieve many emails from mailman-users at python.org but I can not
> post
> >one to it. Why is full of my mind. Could you help me to find out why. I
> >really appreciate your help.
>
>
> You successfully posted this. None of your prior attempts reached the
> list moderator. What did you do differently this time?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From gail at brattleboroarts.org  Wed Feb 24 15:42:40 2010
From: gail at brattleboroarts.org (Gail Nunziata)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:42:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please don't make me go to FAQ or lsit serv!!!
Message-ID: <0610768E88D54F6B9DF71B30DC5E7D9F@LENOVOBED5771C>

I hope someone can work with me directly, thank you.

I need to set a control so no one can reply to an entire list.  My lists are
served by Bluehost, but they tell me I have to deal with Mailman because you
handle my basic mailing lists.

Yesterday I sent out an email to one of my lists, and someone replied,
thinking it would just go to me, but it went to the whole group.  The whole
group then got embroiled in replies, comments, more replies, etc.  All of
this paralyzed my email, and I wasn't able to tell them to just stop.  There
are 622 on the list and when I tried to write to even one person, I rec'd an
error message that I had exceeded the 750 per hour.  Now a certain amount of
them want to be unsubscribed, which is fine, but I need to make sure this
doesn't happen again.

Please advise.

Thank you.

Gail

 

Gail Nunziata, Managing Director  802.254.1109

Brattleboro Arts Initiative & Latchis Corporation

50 Main Street   Brattleboro VT   05301

 <http://www.brattleboroarts.org> www.brattleboroarts.org
<http://www.latchis.com> www.latchis.com

Preserving the Latchis - Promoting the Arts

 

 


From sgruver at sbctc.edu  Thu Feb 25 00:27:57 2010
From: sgruver at sbctc.edu (Sandi Gruver)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:27:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /var/lib/mailman/archives/private 90% full
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c39f61cc3991@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7FF38@athens.CISI.ctc.edu>
	<p06240802c39f61cc3991@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <C9DAB68D699F2D44AEBE47706B75E6E7222FA774BF@exch-2.sbctc2.local>

Dear Sirs,

It's not clear to me even after reading MM archive posts how to contain this filesystem - /var/lib/mailman/archives/private.

So I go in and manually gzip the <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox file, but that doesn't stop the growth.
Yesterday I read about not gzipping the <listname>/2009-December.txt files so turned that off in mailman's cron.
But ... 

104 lists on RedHat EL4 server.

Thank you for simple, clear ideas, I'm not a programmer nor much of a techie.

- Sandi 




From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 25 02:02:46 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:02:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please don't make me go to FAQ or lsit serv!!!
In-Reply-To: <0610768E88D54F6B9DF71B30DC5E7D9F@LENOVOBED5771C>
Message-ID: <PC195201002241702460906ad746978@msapiro>

Gail Nunziata wrote:

>I hope someone can work with me directly, thank you.


I am going to refer you to the FAQ because your question is answered
there in detail in the article at <http://wiki.list.org/x/3YA9>.

Please read that, and then if you have specific questions about
anything you don't understand, post them here and someone will answer.


>Yesterday I sent out an email to one of my lists, and someone replied,
>thinking it would just go to me, but it went to the whole group.  The whole
>group then got embroiled in replies, comments, more replies, etc.  All of
>this paralyzed my email, and I wasn't able to tell them to just stop.  There
>are 622 on the list and when I tried to write to even one person, I rec'd an
>error message that I had exceeded the 750 per hour.  Now a certain amount of
>them want to be unsubscribed, which is fine, but I need to make sure this
>doesn't happen again.


The first think you do when something like this breaks out is you go to
the admin General Options page and scroll down to

Additional settings
Emergency moderation of all list traffic.

and set that to Yes.

That stops the flood. Then you go to the "Tend to pending moderator
requests" page and discard all the held messages.

Finally, you read the above referenced FAQ article and set up your list
so members can't post.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 25 02:04:19 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:04:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <fc53da3b1002241631w49df83d8va507934f550d6529@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002241704190062ca693891@msapiro>

Mary Ma wrote:
>
>Anyway, finally I reach you guys.

So did you actually have a question to post or did you just want to
know you could?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brian at emwd.com  Thu Feb 25 02:07:00 2010
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:07:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please don't make me go to FAQ or lsit serv!!!
In-Reply-To: <0610768E88D54F6B9DF71B30DC5E7D9F@LENOVOBED5771C>
References: <0610768E88D54F6B9DF71B30DC5E7D9F@LENOVOBED5771C>
Message-ID: <034201cab5b6$d7067380$85135a80$@com>

> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please don't make me go to FAQ or lsit serv!!!
> 
> I hope someone can work with me directly, thank you.
> 
> I need to set a control so no one can reply to an entire list.  My
> lists are
> served by Bluehost, but they tell me I have to deal with Mailman
> because you
> handle my basic mailing lists.
> 
> Yesterday I sent out an email to one of my lists, and someone replied,
> thinking it would just go to me, but it went to the whole group.  The
> whole
> group then got embroiled in replies, comments, more replies, etc.  All
> of
> this paralyzed my email, and I wasn't able to tell them to just stop.
> There
> are 622 on the list and when I tried to write to even one person, I
> rec'd an
> error message that I had exceeded the 750 per hour.  Now a certain
> amount of
> them want to be unsubscribed, which is fine, but I need to make sure
> this
> doesn't happen again.
> 
> Please advise.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Gail
> 
>

Hi Gail: 

I assume your list is supposed to be an announcement only/newsletter list
and not a discussion list. When something like that happens the first thing
you want to do is set Emergency Moderation to on. Then you need to see all
of your members' moderation bit to on on the membership management page.
Finally you will want to go to privacy options -- sender filters, and make
sure you have the following options set:

By default, should new list member postings be moderated? Yes
Action to take when a moderated member posts to the list. Hold or if it is
not a discussion list then to reject or discard. I prefer discard.

The error message you received about the 750 per hour is from your wonderful
host, Bluehost. They throttle their mailservers (limit the amount of mail
their users can send per hour) which makes any active mailman list
problematic and refuses to give even basic support for the software that
they include with their hosting services.

If Bluehost's policies and support becomes too problematic then check out
our mailman service at http://mailmanhost.com. Please keep in mind that this
was not the fault of Mailman but of your host and the way you had your list
configured.

Brian
Mailmanhost.com
EMWD.com


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 25 02:24:24 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:24:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /var/lib/mailman/archives/private 90% full
In-Reply-To: <C9DAB68D699F2D44AEBE47706B75E6E7222FA774BF@exch-2.sbctc2.local>
Message-ID: <PC19520100224172424075064765d86@msapiro>

Sandi Gruver wrote:
>
>It's not clear to me even after reading MM archive posts how to contain this filesystem - /var/lib/mailman/archives/private.
>
>So I go in and manually gzip the <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox file, but that doesn't stop the growth.


No, and if I understand correctly, you now have a relatively useless
<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox file containing a gzipped mbox with
additional text appended to it.


>Yesterday I read about not gzipping the <listname>/2009-December.txt files so turned that off in mailman's cron.
>But ... 
>
>104 lists on RedHat EL4 server.
>
>Thank you for simple, clear ideas, I'm not a programmer nor much of a techie.


If you don't have enough storage to support your archives, perhaps you
should either get more or turn archiving off.

The point of an archive is to archive messages. By its nature, it grows
with time.

Now that you're not gzipping the periodic .txt files, you can do

 rm /path/to/archives/private/*/*.txt.gz

to remove all the old, redundant gzipped files.

If you want to delete older messages from the pipermail archive, you
can do something like, e.g.

  rm -r /path/to/archives/private/*/1997*
  rm -r /path/to/archives/private/*/attachments/1997*
  rm -r /path/to/archives/private/*/database/1997*

This will remove all of 1997. The only problem is that the archive
table of contents will still have links to those nonexistent pages.

Another method is to edit the
/path/to/archives/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox files and
remove older messages from the beginning of the file leaving only the
newer messages at the end, and then run Mailman's

  bin/arch --wipe listname. This will leave a consistent archive, but
it will renumber all the messages and break any saved links or links
in archived messages to other archived messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From me at electronico.nc  Thu Feb 25 02:29:33 2010
From: me at electronico.nc (me at electronico.nc)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:29:33 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /var/lib/mailman/archives/private 90% full
In-Reply-To: <C9DAB68D699F2D44AEBE47706B75E6E7222FA774BF@exch-2.sbctc2.local>
References: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7FF38@athens.CISI.ctc.edu>	<p06240802c39f61cc3991@[192.168.1.101]>
	<C9DAB68D699F2D44AEBE47706B75E6E7222FA774BF@exch-2.sbctc2.local>
Message-ID: <4B85D27D.8060407@electronico.nc>

On 25/02/2010 10:27, Sandi Gruver wrote:
> Dear Sirs,
>
> It's not clear to me even after reading MM archive posts how to contain this filesystem - /var/lib/mailman/archives/private.
>
> So I go in and manually gzip the<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox file, but that doesn't stop the growth.
> Yesterday I read about not gzipping the<listname>/2009-December.txt files so turned that off in mailman's cron.
> But ...
>
> 104 lists on RedHat EL4 server.
>
> Thank you for simple, clear ideas, I'm not a programmer nor much of a techie.
>
> - Sandi
>    
Hello,

What I think is that your 104 lists are set-up to archive messages.
After a while your partition /var (if setup independant) becomes too 
small to handle all the messages archives.
The only thing you have to do is the contact the system administrator of 
the server that handles your lists and ask him/her to increase the /var 
partition size.
off-topic : that's not that easy as I would need to do it on one server ...

Nicolas Canonne

From rsk at gsp.org  Thu Feb 25 02:11:35 2010
From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:11:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best Mail Program to Use w/ Mailman
In-Reply-To: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7A99@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
References: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7A99@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
Message-ID: <20100225011135.GA10238@gsp.org>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:20:05AM -0500, Beyer, Clay wrote:
> We are setting up a Debian web server and would like to use Mailman to
> manage a couple of mailing lists that we control. After some initial
> complications with Mailman and Postfix we decided to uninstall and
> reinstall everything, before we get going again, I just wanted to get an
> idea of what the best mail program, taken from the Mailman
> Documentation, to use with Mailman... Postfix, Qmail, Exim, or Sendmail.

I strongly recommend against qmail, as it is not suitable for professional
or even amateur use.

I have deployed the rest in various environments numerous times.  None is
"best" across the board, but each may be "best" depending on your environment,
your needs, and your mail system knowledge.  Roughly, and I emphasize
ROUGHLY speaking:

	- exim is the simplest to install and configure.   If your needs
	are straightforward and modest, this might be the best choice.

	- postfix is not as simple, but it *is* modular, well-designed,
	and quite capable of supporting complex environments.

	- sendmail is still more complex, but is widely known (in part
	because of its longevity) and there is a larger knowledge base
	for it than any other MTA.  Sendmail milters offer an extensive
	feature set for sufficiently-advanced administrators.

Personally, I tend to use sendmail and postfix -- in part because I'm
usually dealing with non-straightforward environments.  However, I would
advise that if you think can manage with exim, you should at least try.

Without having detailed knowledge of the factors above (environment,
needs, knowledge) it's tough to say much further than that, but: if
you're only handling mail for one domain, if you're only handling mailing
list traffic, if you're not running an associated POP/IMAP server, if
you're running a single server, if you're handling low to moderate
volumes of traffic, then my guess would be that exim will work very
well for you.

---Rsk

From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Feb 25 02:32:17 2010
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:32:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /var/lib/mailman/archives/private 90% full
In-Reply-To: <C9DAB68D699F2D44AEBE47706B75E6E7222FA774BF@exch-2.sbctc2.local>
References: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7FF38@athens.CISI.ctc.edu><p06240802c39f61cc3991@[192.168.1.101]>
	<C9DAB68D699F2D44AEBE47706B75E6E7222FA774BF@exch-2.sbctc2.local>
Message-ID: <4B85D321.8040606@tuunq.com>

On 2/24/2010 3:27 PM, Sandi Gruver wrote:

> So I go in and manually gzip the<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox file, but
> that doesn't stop the growth. Yesterday I read about not gzipping
> the<listname>/2009-December.txt files so turned that off in mailman's
> cron. But ...

The only way to stop an archive from growing is to stop archiving messages. 
You could, however, edit the archive mbox to remove old messages and 
regenerate the pages. Check out-
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030681 and
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=7602232

You could also move the archives to a bigger file system, but doesn't 
eliminate the problem, it just puts it off.

z!

From s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk  Thu Feb 25 11:32:54 2010
From: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk (Steff Watkins)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:32:54 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /var/lib/mailman/archives/private 90% full
In-Reply-To: <C9DAB68D699F2D44AEBE47706B75E6E7222FA774BF@exch-2.sbctc2.local>
References: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7FF38@athens.CISI.ctc.edu><p06240802c39f61cc3991@[192.168.1.101]>
	<C9DAB68D699F2D44AEBE47706B75E6E7222FA774BF@exch-2.sbctc2.local>
Message-ID: <8A17F10FEBA5C841956578C5AD9027D31417B8@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>

> So I go in and manually gzip the 
> <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox file, but that doesn't stop 
> the growth.
> ...
> - Sandi 

Forgive me if I'm barking up the wrong sequoia here...

Do you mean that even though you've archived your files the amount of
filespace is still above 90%?

If so, that could be because the Mailman processes themselves are
holding the location of the ends of the files so that it can write to
them. It "may" be holding files open so that it can continuously write
to them as and when it needs to.

As such, even if you reduced the actual file length to zero bytes then a
process would be holding open an X megabyte image of the file so the O/S
would see it as X megabytes in use.

I'd suggest arranging a little downtime and using the startup script,
shutdown Mailman and then start it up again. This should only need a
minute or two at the most. It should cause the various qrunner processes
to close any files they may have open and then re-open them. This may
"reclaim" the unused space that is marked as "in use" but isnt.

Regards,
Steff Watkins
[What? No footer containg amusing quotes from HHGTTG?]

From brian at emwd.com  Thu Feb 25 17:47:00 2010
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:47:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lock error: lifetime has expired, breaking problem
Message-ID: <02ca01cab63a$2841a6b0$78c4f410$@com>

Hi All:

 

I am getting the following line written to the locks log over and over and
over:

 

 info_list.domain.it.lock lifetime has expired, breaking

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     main()

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     qrunner.run()

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 75, in
run

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     self._doperiodic()

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line
145, in _doperiodic

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     self._register_bounces()

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line
122, in _register_bounces

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     mlist.Lock()

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     self.__lock.lock(timeout)

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 306, in lock

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     important=True)

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 416, in
__writelog

Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     traceback.print_stack(file=logf)

 

There are no stale lock files. I have restarted mailman and apache several
times and still the above problem persists. I can log into the mailman list
administrator panel with no problem. Any advice?

 

Regards,

Brian Carpenter

EMWD.com

 

--------------------------------------------------------

http://blog.emwd.com/
Curious comments from a web hosting techie

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 25 19:28:20 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:28:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lock error: lifetime has expired,
	breaking problem
In-Reply-To: <02ca01cab63a$2841a6b0$78c4f410$@com>
References: <02ca01cab63a$2841a6b0$78c4f410$@com>
Message-ID: <4B86C144.4080305@msapiro.net>

On 2/25/2010 8:47 AM, Brian Carpenter wrote:
> Hi All:
> 
>  
> 
> I am getting the following line written to the locks log over and over and
> over:
> 
>  
> 
>  info_list.domain.it.lock lifetime has expired, breaking
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
> "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     main()
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
> "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     qrunner.run()
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
> "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 75, in
> run
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     self._doperiodic()
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
> "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line
> 145, in _doperiodic


Is it always BounceRunner?


> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     self._register_bounces()
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
> "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line
> 122, in _register_bounces
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     mlist.Lock()
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
> "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     self.__lock.lock(timeout)
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
> "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 306, in lock
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     important=True)
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)   File
> "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 416, in
> __writelog
> 
> Feb 25 11:43:26 2010 (3924)     traceback.print_stack(file=logf)
> 
>  
> 
> There are no stale lock files. I have restarted mailman and apache several
> times and still the above problem persists. I can log into the mailman list
> administrator panel with no problem. Any advice?



What if any are the bounce-events-ppppp.pck files in
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/data/?

Are there extraneous qrunners running? (try "ps -fAw | grep Runner" to
see if there's more than one of each runner.)

What is in /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/locks/ (stale or otherwise).

Put

LIST_LOCK_DEBUGGING = On

in mm_cfg.py and restart Mailman to get additional debugging info in the
locks log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brian at emwd.com  Thu Feb 25 19:37:26 2010
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:37:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lock error: lifetime has expired,
	breaking problem
In-Reply-To: <4B86C144.4080305@msapiro.net>
References: <02ca01cab63a$2841a6b0$78c4f410$@com>
	<4B86C144.4080305@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <032001cab649$95929580$c0b7c080$@com>

> Are there extraneous qrunners running? (try "ps -fAw | grep Runner" to
> see if there's more than one of each runner.)
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

You're awesome Mark. There was a free radical in the way of an extra bounce
runner that refused to die when Mailman was stopped. Killing that process
corrected the problem.

Appreciate the help as always!

Brian
(going to create a web site call www.inaweofmarksapiro.com)


From cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  Thu Feb 25 15:27:16 2010
From: cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com (Cedric Jeanneret)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:27:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <20100225011135.GA10238@gsp.org>
References: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7A99@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
	<20100225011135.GA10238@gsp.org>
Message-ID: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>

Hello,

I'm trying to create a xapian[1] indexer for our mailing list. As mailman is written in Python and there are python bindings for xapian, I guess I can maybe create a plugin for that.
My first question is : is there already such a thing ? I searched on the net, but nothing appeared
My second one : can we create a plugin for mailman, if so, where should I go to have some doc ? seems there's nothing in the wiki (http://wiki.list.org/dosearchsite.action?searchQuery.queryString=plugin&searchQuery.spaceKey=conf_all)

Just to explain why I'd like to do that: we already have a xapian search engine in here, indexing a fileserver, request tracker queues and moinmoin wikis... so we'd like to aggregate all our stuff in one app for searching.

Thank you in advance.

Best regards,

C.


-- 
C?dric Jeanneret                 |  System Administrator
021 619 10 32                    |  Camptocamp SA
cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  |  PSE-A / EPFL

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 26 02:08:06 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:08:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>

Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
>
>I'm trying to create a xapian[1] indexer for our mailing list. As mailman is written in Python and there are python bindings for xapian, I guess I can maybe create a plugin for that.
>My first question is : is there already such a thing ? I searched on the net, but nothing appeared
>My second one : can we create a plugin for mailman, if so, where should I go to have some doc ? seems there's nothing in the wiki (http://wiki.list.org/dosearchsite.action?searchQuery.queryString=plugin&searchQuery.spaceKey=conf_all)
>
>Just to explain why I'd like to do that: we already have a xapian search engine in here, indexing a fileserver, request tracker queues and moinmoin wikis... so we'd like to aggregate all our stuff in one app for searching.


This will be quite doable with Mailman 3 which is still in development.

There are problems trying to do this in Mailman 2.1.x. There is a
plugin capability of sorts in the form of custom handlers that can be
added to the incoming message processing pipeline. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>. However, archiving is asynchronous with
incoming message processing, so it is not possible for a custom
handler to know the URL that will ultimately retrieve the message from
the archive.

A different approach which might be workable is to use the
PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER hooks. If you
set

PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/script.py'
PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/script.py'

in mm_cfg.py, then that script will be invoked do do the archiving. The
script in turn could invoke the standard pipermail archiving process
and then invoke xapian to index the archived message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  Fri Feb 26 08:25:31 2010
From: cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com (Cedric Jeanneret)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:25:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20100226082531.5a1fd452@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:08:06 -0800
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> >
> >I'm trying to create a xapian[1] indexer for our mailing list. As mailman is written in Python and there are python bindings for xapian, I guess I can maybe create a plugin for that.
> >My first question is : is there already such a thing ? I searched on the net, but nothing appeared
> >My second one : can we create a plugin for mailman, if so, where should I go to have some doc ? seems there's nothing in the wiki (http://wiki.list.org/dosearchsite.action?searchQuery.queryString=plugin&searchQuery.spaceKey=conf_all)
> >
> >Just to explain why I'd like to do that: we already have a xapian search engine in here, indexing a fileserver, request tracker queues and moinmoin wikis... so we'd like to aggregate all our stuff in one app for searching.
> 
> 
> This will be quite doable with Mailman 3 which is still in development.
> 
> There are problems trying to do this in Mailman 2.1.x. There is a
> plugin capability of sorts in the form of custom handlers that can be
> added to the incoming message processing pipeline. See the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>. However, archiving is asynchronous with
> incoming message processing, so it is not possible for a custom
> handler to know the URL that will ultimately retrieve the message from
> the archive.
> 
> A different approach which might be workable is to use the
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER hooks. If you
> set
> 
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/script.py'
> PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/script.py'
> 
> in mm_cfg.py, then that script will be invoked do do the archiving. The
> script in turn could invoke the standard pipermail archiving process
> and then invoke xapian to index the archived message.
> 

Hello Mark,

Thank you very much for your answer. I guess the "cleanest" way would be to override the PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER (we don't want to index our private for now). I'll give it a try as soon as possible.
Do you think my script will interest some people ? if so, where should I post it ?

Thanks again

Best regards,

C.


-- 
C?dric Jeanneret                 |  System Administrator
021 619 10 32                    |  Camptocamp SA
cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  |  PSE-A / EPFL

From cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  Fri Feb 26 13:20:29 2010
From: cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com (Cedric Jeanneret)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:20:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:08:06 -0800
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> >
> >I'm trying to create a xapian[1] indexer for our mailing list. As mailman is written in Python and there are python bindings for xapian, I guess I can maybe create a plugin for that.
> >My first question is : is there already such a thing ? I searched on the net, but nothing appeared
> >My second one : can we create a plugin for mailman, if so, where should I go to have some doc ? seems there's nothing in the wiki (http://wiki.list.org/dosearchsite.action?searchQuery.queryString=plugin&searchQuery.spaceKey=conf_all)
> >
> >Just to explain why I'd like to do that: we already have a xapian search engine in here, indexing a fileserver, request tracker queues and moinmoin wikis... so we'd like to aggregate all our stuff in one app for searching.
> 
> 
> This will be quite doable with Mailman 3 which is still in development.
> 
> There are problems trying to do this in Mailman 2.1.x. There is a
> plugin capability of sorts in the form of custom handlers that can be
> added to the incoming message processing pipeline. See the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>. However, archiving is asynchronous with
> incoming message processing, so it is not possible for a custom
> handler to know the URL that will ultimately retrieve the message from
> the archive.
> 
> A different approach which might be workable is to use the
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER hooks. If you
> set
> 
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/script.py'
> PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/script.py'
> 
> in mm_cfg.py, then that script will be invoked do do the archiving. The
> script in turn could invoke the standard pipermail archiving process
> and then invoke xapian to index the archived message.
> 


Hello again,

Just one question :
what do mlist, msg, msgdata stand for ? As I read I've to create my module and define a "process(mlist, msg, msgdata) inside it, I'd like to know what are those objects. I discovered that mlist stands for a Mailman.MailList.MailList('list-name'), but for the others, it's a bit hard to find...

Thanks in advance.

C.

-- 
C?dric Jeanneret                 |  System Administrator
021 619 10 32                    |  Camptocamp SA
cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  |  PSE-A / EPFL
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100226/2ffa964e/attachment.pgp>

From wilson-ml at bubba.org  Fri Feb 26 03:18:01 2010
From: wilson-ml at bubba.org (Brian Wilson)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:18:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive nightmare with vhosts
Message-ID: <8B93CB46-7784-4588-BCF7-916CCE9917F0@bubba.org>


> The bottom line for me now is I can take a 2.1.13 base distribution,
> patch it with the patch at http://www.msapiro.net/mm/2.1.13_vhost.patch 
> and patch that with the vhost_extra_patch.txt patch attached to this post, 
> and I think that list creation and the web interface work. I haven't tested posting
> because my testbed uses Exim, but I think it should work.

...
> The current patch is http://www.msapiro.net/mm/2.1.13-1_vhost.patch


First off, thanks for you and Igor for putting together and doing the legwork on getting the vhost patch working on 2.1.13.  I've been wanting to migrate my lists away from my hosting provider and roll my own mailman install again, but was waiting on 3.0.   Glad this will keep me happy in the interim.  

There are a few things I noticed on my install today (Debian w/ Postfix).  

1) rmlist doesnt work properly:

# rmlist -a test at lists.example.com
test at lists.example.com list info not found as /var/lib/mailman/lists/test at lists.example.com
test at lists.example.com private archives not found as /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/test at lists.example.com
test at lists.example.com private archives not found as /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/test at lists.example.com.mbox
test at lists.example.com public archives not found as /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/test at lists.example.com
test at lists.example.com public archives not found as /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/test at lists.example.com.mbox

# rmlist test at lists.example.com
Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
test at lists.example.com list info not found as /var/lib/mailman/lists/test at lists.example.com

2) Web locations are off...

If i go to archives for a list: http://lists.example.com/pipermail/lists.example.com/test/, the html link that links to listinfo uses DEFAULT_URL_HOST instead of the urlhost for the list I'm on (link goes to http://DEFAULT_URL_HOST/mailman/listinfo/test).  I tried adjusting the templates (in templates/en/emptyarchive.html) to remedy this, but couldn't tell that the pages were changing when I adjusted the templates as the info didn't change on the website.  

I'm using this as my Apache config which should handle all "lists.domain.tld" type domains.   I don't think this is what is causing the web locations to be off, but I'm not sure.  

<VirtualHost *:80>
       ServerName lists.example.com
       ServerAlias lists.*

       RedirectMatch permanent ^/$ /mailman/listinfo

       RewriteCond      %{REQUEST_URI}  !^/pipermail/lists\.(.*)?$      [NC]
       RewriteRule      ^/pipermail/(.*)$ /pipermail/%{SERVER_NAME}/$1 [R=301,L]
       RewriteCond     %{REQUEST_URI}  !^/private/(.*)@(.*)?$  [NC]
       RewriteRule     ^/private/(.*)/$ /private/$1@%{server_name} [R=301,L]

       RewriteEngine on
       RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*)?$ /cgi-bin/mailman$1 [PT,L]
</VirtualHost>

I don't have any live lists on my system, so I'll be glad to test whatever suggestions you might have.  I did confirm that delivery works as it should with postfix by only adding the aliases map,  virtual-mailman map and adding each "lists.domain.tld" to virtual_alias_domains.

Thanks again for putting this together.  
Brian


From a.smith at ukgrid.net  Fri Feb 26 15:19:42 2010
From: a.smith at ukgrid.net (Andy Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:19:42 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman suddendly stops sending any emails
Message-ID: <20100226141942.22441cagxxg05xgk@horde.ukgrid.net>

Hi,

   I have a mailman server thats been up without modification for  
about a year, suddendly it has stopped sending emails.
As Ive never had many problems with mailman I dont have a lot of  
experience troubleshooting it. Can anyone give me some pointers?

What I can tell you, lists are still working normally with the  
exception of not sending emails. In the logs directory the following  
logs all have last modified time of 8am this morning:

bounce
post
smtp
smtp-failur

After that point, no log entries and no emails sent. What should I check next?

thanks for any help! Andy.

From terra.tz at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 13:59:15 2010
From: terra.tz at gmail.com (terra tz)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:59:15 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to get back my mailing list?
Message-ID: <f71088151002260459n59e1b569i841eca05ed0f4f92@mail.gmail.com>

Hello sir or miss,
I'm sorry to bother you!
I have tried many ways to try to regain my mailing list, but failed, I had
to contact you, I hope you can give me a hand. Thanks for your assistance!
The following is my problem:
I had to move my site to another server in these days, however, I can not
got my mailing list from the old server. When I try to click "Go to the
general list information page" - "Visit subsriber list", I always got
following error message:
"Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12.cp3
We're sorry, we hit a bug!
Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. "
I can not list the member in htm page.
I try to find the member information from "config.pck" file, however, the
file can not be read in Windows.
Is there any way I can get my mailing list? The mailing list included more
than 500,000 subscribers.
Thanks in advance!
Terry,

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 26 17:34:17 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:34:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive nightmare with vhosts
In-Reply-To: <8B93CB46-7784-4588-BCF7-916CCE9917F0@bubba.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201002260834170265ad37219a@msapiro>

Brian Wilson wrote:
>
>First off, thanks for you and Igor for putting together and doing the legwork on getting the vhost patch working on 2.1.13.  I've been wanting to migrate my lists away from my hosting provider and roll my own mailman install again, but was waiting on 3.0.   Glad this will keep me happy in the interim.  
>
>There are a few things I noticed on my install today (Debian w/ Postfix).  
>
>1) rmlist doesnt work properly:
>
># rmlist -a test at lists.example.com
>test at lists.example.com list info not found as /var/lib/mailman/lists/test at lists.example.com
>test at lists.example.com private archives not found as /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/test at lists.example.com
>test at lists.example.com private archives not found as /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/test at lists.example.com.mbox
>test at lists.example.com public archives not found as /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/test at lists.example.com
>test at lists.example.com public archives not found as /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/test at lists.example.com.mbox
>
># rmlist test at lists.example.com
>Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
>test at lists.example.com list info not found as /var/lib/mailman/lists/test at lists.example.com


This does not surprise me. There are reasons why these patches aren't
applied upstream. Everyone whose done this has only done the parts
they're interested in. No on has done a complete job.

My recent work on this was only to adress Igor's specific issues. I
have my own vhost branch, and I'll see about fixing this (if it's
easy) and publishing the branch on Launchpad. However, it was never my
intent to make this wart free, and I don't want to get sucked in to
fixing bugs in code that has been entirely superceded in Mailman 3.


>2) Web locations are off...
>
>If i go to archives for a list: http://lists.example.com/pipermail/lists.example.com/test/, the html link that links to listinfo uses DEFAULT_URL_HOST instead of the urlhost for the list I'm on (link goes to http://DEFAULT_URL_HOST/mailman/listinfo/test).  I tried adjusting the templates (in templates/en/emptyarchive.html) to remedy this, but couldn't tell that the pages were changing when I adjusted the templates as the info didn't change on the website.  


I see that is a problem in my vhost test system too. I'll see about
this too.


>I'm using this as my Apache config which should handle all "lists.domain.tld" type domains.   I don't think this is what is causing the web locations to be off, but I'm not sure.  
>
><VirtualHost *:80>
>       ServerName lists.example.com
>       ServerAlias lists.*
>
>       RedirectMatch permanent ^/$ /mailman/listinfo
>
>       RewriteCond      %{REQUEST_URI}  !^/pipermail/lists\.(.*)?$      [NC]
>       RewriteRule      ^/pipermail/(.*)$ /pipermail/%{SERVER_NAME}/$1 [R=301,L]
>       RewriteCond     %{REQUEST_URI}  !^/private/(.*)@(.*)?$  [NC]
>       RewriteRule     ^/private/(.*)/$ /private/$1@%{server_name} [R=301,L]
>
>       RewriteEngine on
>       RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*)?$ /cgi-bin/mailman$1 [PT,L]
></VirtualHost>


I'm sure I fixed this so there is no need for rewrite rules for
pipermail or private archives.

Also, depending on what you're trying to accomplish, the

       RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*)?$ /cgi-bin/mailman$1 [PT,L]

should probably be eliminated by putting

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'

in mm_cfg.py or adjusting Mailman's ScriptAlias in Apache.


>I don't have any live lists on my system, so I'll be glad to test whatever suggestions you might have.  I did confirm that delivery works as it should with postfix by only adding the aliases map,  virtual-mailman map and adding each "lists.domain.tld" to virtual_alias_domains.


I'll see what I come up with.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 26 17:47:55 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:47:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to get back my mailing list?
In-Reply-To: <f71088151002260459n59e1b569i841eca05ed0f4f92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002260847550095d6965ed6@msapiro>

terra tz wrote:

>The following is my problem:
>I had to move my site to another server in these days, however, I can not
>got my mailing list from the old server. When I try to click "Go to the
>general list information page" - "Visit subsriber list", I always got
>following error message:
>"Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12.cp3
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
>the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. "
>I can not list the member in htm page.
>I try to find the member information from "config.pck" file, however, the
>file can not be read in Windows.
>Is there any way I can get my mailing list? The mailing list included more
>than 500,000 subscribers.


Since you have the config.pck, if it is not corrupt in some way, you
should be able to 'drop it into' the Mailman installation on the new
server. There may be issues if the new server is not cPanel, but you
may be able to run bin/list_members on one of the servers.

See the cPanel FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9> and the moving
lists FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2oA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 26 17:49:37 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:49:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman suddendly stops sending any emails
In-Reply-To: <20100226141942.22441cagxxg05xgk@horde.ukgrid.net>
Message-ID: <PC1952010022608493707698d985626@msapiro>

Andy Smith wrote:
>
>   I have a mailman server thats been up without modification for  
>about a year, suddendly it has stopped sending emails.
>As Ive never had many problems with mailman I dont have a lot of  
>experience troubleshooting it. Can anyone give me some pointers?


See the troubleshooting FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 26 18:15:13 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:15:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <20100226082531.5a1fd452@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002260915130656932a241d@msapiro>

Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
>
>Thank you very much for your answer. I guess the "cleanest" way would be to override the PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER (we don't want to index our private for now). I'll give it a try as soon as possible.
>Do you think my script will interest some people ? if so, where should I post it ?


Yes, I think it may be of interest. The best place is the tracker at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman> plus a note to this list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 26 19:15:13 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:15:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>
	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
Message-ID: <4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>

On 2/26/2010 4:20 AM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:08:06 -0800 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm trying to create a xapian[1] indexer for our mailing list. As
>>> mailman is written in Python and there are python bindings for
>>> xapian, I guess I can maybe create a plugin for that. My first
>>> question is : is there already such a thing ? I searched on the
>>> net, but nothing appeared My second one : can we create a plugin
>>> for mailman, if so, where should I go to have some doc ? seems
>>> there's nothing in the wiki
>>> (http://wiki.list.org/dosearchsite.action?searchQuery.queryString=plugin&searchQuery.spaceKey=conf_all)
>>>
>>>
>>> 
Just to explain why I'd like to do that: we already have a xapian search
engine in here, indexing a fileserver, request tracker queues and
moinmoin wikis... so we'd like to aggregate all our stuff in one app for
searching.
>> 
>> 
>> This will be quite doable with Mailman 3 which is still in
>> development.
>> 
>> There are problems trying to do this in Mailman 2.1.x. There is a 
>> plugin capability of sorts in the form of custom handlers that can
>> be added to the incoming message processing pipeline. See the FAQ
>> at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>. However, archiving is
>> asynchronous with incoming message processing, so it is not
>> possible for a custom handler to know the URL that will ultimately
>> retrieve the message from the archive.
>> 
>> A different approach which might be workable is to use the 
>> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER hooks. If
>> you set
>> 
>> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/script.py' 
>> PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/script.py'
>> 
>> in mm_cfg.py, then that script will be invoked do do the archiving.
>> The script in turn could invoke the standard pipermail archiving
>> process and then invoke xapian to index the archived message.
>> 
> 
> 
> Hello again,
> 
> Just one question : what do mlist, msg, msgdata stand for ? As I read
> I've to create my module and define a "process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> inside it, I'd like to know what are those objects. I discovered that
> mlist stands for a Mailman.MailList.MailList('list-name'), but for
> the others, it's a bit hard to find...


Only custom handlers need to define process(mlist, msg, msgdata). That
is the entry point to the handler and three objects are passed

mlist is the Mailman.MailList.MailList() instance for the current list

msg is a Mailman.Message.Message() (subclass of email.Message.Message)
    instance for the current message

msgdata is a dictionary of the message metadata accumulated so far.

The important thing is these are passed in as arguments to the handler
process() function.

In your case, you are defining a module which is going to be invoked
like the following.

Suppose that

PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/myarch.py %(hostname)s %listname)s'

It will be invoked in a pipe similar to

cat raw_message | /path/to/myarch.py HOST LIST

i.e. the command string with %(hostname)s and %listname)s replaced by
the actual host name and list name of the list will be invoked and the
message piped to it.

So, it could begin something like:

#!python
import sys
sys.path.insert(0, 'path/to/mailman/bin')
# The above line can be skipped if myarch.py is in Mailman's
# bin directory.
import paths

import email
from Mailman import MailList
from Mailman import Message

msg = email.message_from_file(sys.stdin, Message.Message)
mlist = MailList.MailList(sys.argv[1], lock=True)


At this point, you have a list object (locked) and a message object. You
might think you could just do

mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)

to archive the mail to the listname.mbox file and the pipermail archive,
but that wouldn't quite work because that method would re-invoke the
external archiver. Also, you don't need to worry about the listname.mbox
file because the ArchiveMail() method already did that before invoking
the external archiver, so what you would need is

from Mailman.Archiver import HyperArch
from cStringIO import StringIO
f = StringIO(str(msg))
h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist)
h.processUnixMailbox(f)
h.close()
f.close()

Which is what the ArchiveMail() method would do. Now you still have the
mlist and msg objects, and you need to save and unlock the list at some
point

mlist.Save()
mlist.Unlock()

and the message is now in the pipermail archive and can be indexed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 27 01:04:38 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:04:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive nightmare with vhosts
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002260834170265ad37219a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC195201002261604380904a143216e@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Brian Wilson wrote:
>>
>>There are a few things I noticed on my install today (Debian w/ Postfix).  
>>
>>1) rmlist doesnt work properly:


Fixed by the attached patch.


>>2) Web locations are off...
>>
>>If i go to archives for a list: http://lists.example.com/pipermail/lists.example.com/test/, the html link that links to listinfo uses DEFAULT_URL_HOST instead of the urlhost for the list I'm on (link goes to http://DEFAULT_URL_HOST/mailman/listinfo/test).


I'm not going to fix this. The problem occurs because the
MailList.MailList.Create() method initializes web_page_url with
DEFAULT_URL_HOST. It then calls the archiver to initialize the
archives, and only after returning to the caller (bin/newlist or the
create CGI) is web_page_url updated with the correct host name.

It only affects the initial 'empty archive' page. the first post to the
list will regenerate all the archive pages and the listinfo link will
be correct.

Fixing this properly is way too much work for too little benefit.

I have published a Bazaar branch to lp:~msapiro/mailman/vhost
<https://code.launchpad.net/~msapiro/mailman/vhost> which contains all
the work I've done to date on this branch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: rmlist.patch.txt
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100226/517849e1/attachment.txt>

From a.smith at ukgrid.net  Fri Feb 26 18:00:10 2010
From: a.smith at ukgrid.net (Andy Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:00:10 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman suddendly stops sending any emails
In-Reply-To: <20100226141942.22441cagxxg05xgk@horde.ukgrid.net>
References: <20100226141942.22441cagxxg05xgk@horde.ukgrid.net>
Message-ID: <20100226170010.51196mm855vg44ws@horde.ukgrid.net>

Hi,

    ok seems there was a little misinformation regarding this :S

Turns out the issue was no mail was set for all the users in the list,  
possibly relating to the bounce handling. Im struggle to understand  
what is bouncing what to cause this, is it mailman get undeliverable  
mail errors or what (I have no reason to believe mailman has any issue  
delivering mail to any of the members)

thanks Andy.

Quoting Andy Smith <a.smith at ukgrid.net>:

> Hi,
>
>   I have a mailman server thats been up without modification for  
> about a year, suddendly it has stopped sending emails.
> As Ive never had many problems with mailman I dont have a lot of  
> experience troubleshooting it. Can anyone give me some pointers?
>
> What I can tell you, lists are still working normally with the  
> exception of not sending emails. In the logs directory the following  
> logs all have last modified time of 8am this morning:
>
> bounce
> post
> smtp
> smtp-failur
>
> After that point, no log entries and no emails sent. What should I  
> check next?
>
> thanks for any help! Andy.
>



From cwu at asterpix.com  Fri Feb 26 22:59:48 2010
From: cwu at asterpix.com (Chiang Wu)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:59:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering out duplicate emails
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100211075054031235610dee@msapiro>
References: <f9b72a821002101142j3fbf94cbk8425905a83b3c842@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC19520100211075054031235610dee@msapiro>
Message-ID: <f9b72a821002261359q68fa1d31nd9061647975af8e@mail.gmail.com>

So I'm trying to implement a custom handler in Mailman and I'm a bit stuck.
I wrote up some Python code in order to try to compare an email to a file to
try to not sent out the e-mail if the email's message matches something in
the text file. I can't seem to find any examples of custom handlers, so this
is what I came up with so far. Any help would be appreciated.

#pythonhandlerv2.py
#Version 2

#Receive E-mail.
#Compare e-mail to filter file.
#Compare Content vs a file. File will have messages that should be examined
against the current email.
#If matches, remove ToOutgoing from the pipeline in the message's metadata.

import sys

from Mailman import mm_cfg
from Mailman import Errors
from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard

# gets all the lines of the message
msgtext = str(msg)

#test to see if log file catches the message

FILE = open('log.txt', 'w')
FILE.writelines(msgtxt)




message = []
n=0
inputline = ''
fullline = ''
infile = file('test.txt', 'r')

inputline = infile.readline()


while True:

   if len(inputline) == 0: #EOF if length = 0. Breaks out of the while loop
      break

   else:   #read in between delimiter and other delimiter (~~) and place
into message

      if inputline == '~~\n':
         message.append(fullline)
         fullline = ''
         n+=1
         inputline = infile.readline()

      else:
         fullline += inputline
         inputline = infile.readline()

n-=1

#print repr(strvalue2)


while n>=0:

   message[n]=message[n][:-1] #Removes the last new line character (\n) in
the message
   #print repr(message[n])
   #compare message[] to the email text. if matches, break and exit program
   if message[n] in msgtext:
      sys.exit(0)


   else: #else keep looping until end of loop and place outgoing.py after
the loop
      n-=1

#ToOutgoing.py portion of the code

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    interval = mm_cfg.VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL
    # Should we VERP this message?  If personalization is enabled for this
    # list and VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES is true, then yes we VERP it.
    # Also, if personalization is /not/ enabled, but VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL
is
    # set (and we've hit this interval), then again, this message should be
    # VERPed. Otherwise, no.
    #
    # Note that the verp flag may already be set, e.g. by mailpasswds using
    # VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS.  Preserve any existing verp flag.
    if msgdata.has_key('verp'):
        pass
    elif mlist.personalize:
        if mm_cfg.VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES:
            msgdata['verp'] = 1
    elif interval == 0:
        # Never VERP
        pass
    elif interval == 1:
        # VERP every time
        msgdata['verp'] = 1
    else:
        # VERP every `inteval' number of times
        msgdata['verp'] = not int(mlist.post_id) % interval
    # And now drop the message in qfiles/out
    outq = get_switchboard(mm_cfg.OUTQUEUE_DIR)
    outq.enqueue(msg, msgdata, listname=mlist.internal_name())



On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Chiang Wu wrote:
>
> >Hi. I was wondering if anyone knows a way to filter out, yet still
> archieve
> >new e-mails that have the same content as an already archived e-mail.
>
>
> You would have to write a custom handler[1] to examine the content of
> this mail and compare it to something and if it is a 'duplicate',
> remove 'ToOutgoing' from the pipeline in this messages metadata.
>
> Comparing it to the archive is problematic because archiving is
> asynchronous with incoming message processing, and if two 'duplicates'
> arrive close in time, the first may not be archived when you process
> the second.
>
> If you want to avoid truly identical content, this handler could keep a
> small database of some hash of the content and its process time for
> lookup as subsequent messages arrive. If the 'duplicate' content
> differs in things like time stamps only, you could filter those before
> hashing.
>
>
>
> [1] <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From wilson-ml at bubba.org  Sat Feb 27 15:52:17 2010
From: wilson-ml at bubba.org (Brian Wilson)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:52:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive nightmare with vhosts
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002261604380904a143216e@msapiro>
References: <PC195201002261604380904a143216e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <114874D0-0019-40A3-BABE-30788BE55BB7@bubba.org>


On Feb 26, 2010, at 7:04 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>> Brian Wilson wrote:
>>> 
>>> There are a few things I noticed on my install today (Debian w/ Postfix).  
>>> 
>>> 1) rmlist doesnt work properly:
> 
> 
> Fixed by the attached patch.
> 
> 
>>> 2) Web locations are off...
>>> 
>>> If i go to archives for a list: http://lists.example.com/pipermail/lists.example.com/test/, the html link that links to listinfo uses DEFAULT_URL_HOST instead of the urlhost for the list I'm on (link goes to http://DEFAULT_URL_HOST/mailman/listinfo/test).
> 
> 
> I'm not going to fix this. The problem occurs because the
> MailList.MailList.Create() method initializes web_page_url with
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST. It then calls the archiver to initialize the
> archives, and only after returning to the caller (bin/newlist or the
> create CGI) is web_page_url updated with the correct host name.
> 
> It only affects the initial 'empty archive' page. the first post to the
> list will regenerate all the archive pages and the listinfo link will
> be correct.
> 
> Fixing this properly is way too much work for too little benefit.
> 
> I have published a Bazaar branch to lp:~msapiro/mailman/vhost
> <https://code.launchpad.net/~msapiro/mailman/vhost> which contains all
> the work I've done to date on this branch.
> 

Thanks, Mark!  I completely understand not fixing the 2nd issue.   I'll give this a whirl and see how it goes.

Thanks,
Brian



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 27 16:30:01 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:30:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman suddendly stops sending any emails
In-Reply-To: <20100226170010.51196mm855vg44ws@horde.ukgrid.net>
Message-ID: <PC1952010022707300109373737176a@msapiro>

Andy Smith wrote:
>
>Turns out the issue was no mail was set for all the users in the list,  
>possibly relating to the bounce handling. Im struggle to understand  
>what is bouncing what to cause this, is it mailman get undeliverable  
>mail errors or what (I have no reason to believe mailman has any issue  
>delivering mail to any of the members)


If the user's were disabled by bounce processing, there would be [B]
for the reason next to the check in the 'nomail' column in the web
admin Membership List pages.

There will be more information in Mailman's 'bounce' log. Also, if the
notifications are turned on on the web admin Bounce processing, the
list owner should have received a notice for each member whose
delivery was disabled by bounce containing the triggering bounce
notice (DSN).

See <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/reset_bounce.py> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/reset_bounce.py>) for a script
to mass re-enable the bounce disabled member deliveries.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 27 17:06:57 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:06:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering out duplicate emails
In-Reply-To: <f9b72a821002261359q68fa1d31nd9061647975af8e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002270806570359ec9871e0@msapiro>

Chiang Wu wrote:

>So I'm trying to implement a custom handler in Mailman and I'm a bit stuck.
>I wrote up some Python code in order to try to compare an email to a file to
>try to not sent out the e-mail if the email's message matches something in
>the text file. I can't seem to find any examples of custom handlers, so this
>is what I came up with so far. Any help would be appreciated.


You apparently found ToOutgoing.py. That and all the other handlers in
Mailman/Handlers/ are examples of handlers. The only difference
between these and 'custom' handlers is the fact that these are in the
default pipeline.

Have you read the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>?

>#pythonhandlerv2.py
>#Version 2
>
>#Receive E-mail.
>#Compare e-mail to filter file.
>#Compare Content vs a file. File will have messages that should be examined
>against the current email.
>#If matches, remove ToOutgoing from the pipeline in the message's metadata.
>
>import sys
>
>from Mailman import mm_cfg
>from Mailman import Errors
>from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
>from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard


The module level imports above are fine, but note that all module level
code will be executed when the module is imported and before the
modules process() function is called.


># gets all the lines of the message
>msgtext = str(msg)


That means that the above throws an exception immediately because msg
is undefined. All of this needs to be in the process() function
definition.


>#test to see if log file catches the message
>
>FILE = open('log.txt', 'w')
>FILE.writelines(msgtxt)
>


The stuff below could be also in the process() definition or in a
separate function definition called from within process. If it's at
the module level as here, it will be executed once only the first time
IncomingRunner imports the handler and then never again.


>
>message = []
>n=0
>inputline = ''
>fullline = ''
>infile = file('test.txt', 'r')
>
>inputline = infile.readline()
>
>
>while True:
>
>   if len(inputline) == 0: #EOF if length = 0. Breaks out of the while loop
>      break
>
>   else:   #read in between delimiter and other delimiter (~~) and place
>into message
>
>      if inputline == '~~\n':
>         message.append(fullline)
>         fullline = ''
>         n+=1
>         inputline = infile.readline()
>
>      else:
>         fullline += inputline
>         inputline = infile.readline()
>
>n-=1
>
>#print repr(strvalue2)
>
>
>while n>=0:
>
>   message[n]=message[n][:-1] #Removes the last new line character (\n) in
>the message
>   #print repr(message[n])
>   #compare message[] to the email text. if matches, break and exit program
>   if message[n] in msgtext:
>      sys.exit(0)
>
>
>   else: #else keep looping until end of loop and place outgoing.py after
>the loop
>      n-=1


See below...


>#ToOutgoing.py portion of the code
>
>def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>    interval = mm_cfg.VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL
>    # Should we VERP this message?  If personalization is enabled for this
>    # list and VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES is true, then yes we VERP it.
>    # Also, if personalization is /not/ enabled, but VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL
>is
>    # set (and we've hit this interval), then again, this message should be
>    # VERPed. Otherwise, no.
>    #
>    # Note that the verp flag may already be set, e.g. by mailpasswds using
>    # VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS.  Preserve any existing verp flag.
>    if msgdata.has_key('verp'):
>        pass
>    elif mlist.personalize:
>        if mm_cfg.VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES:
>            msgdata['verp'] = 1
>    elif interval == 0:
>        # Never VERP
>        pass
>    elif interval == 1:
>        # VERP every time
>        msgdata['verp'] = 1
>    else:
>        # VERP every `inteval' number of times
>        msgdata['verp'] = not int(mlist.post_id) % interval
>    # And now drop the message in qfiles/out
>    outq = get_switchboard(mm_cfg.OUTQUEUE_DIR)
>    outq.enqueue(msg, msgdata, listname=mlist.internal_name())



Essentially, your handler duplicates ToOutgoing in that the only part
of your code that would be called for each message is the process()
function which does the process of ToOutgoing. If your intent is to
replace ToOutgoing.py with this handler, you would put your code
inside the definition of the process() function and just return
without queueing the message if it was a duplicate.

But, then this would not be a custom handler. It would just be a
patched version of ToOutgoing.py, and you would lose all the
advantages of a custom handler.

What I meant by "remove 'ToOutgoing' from the pipeline in this messages
metadata" was something like:

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):

    (code to determine if this msg is a duplicate)

    if duplicate:
        try:
            msgdata['pipeline'].remove('ToOutgoing')
        except ValueError:
            # ToOutgoing wasn't there
            pass

Then as long as your handler precedes ToOutgoing in the pipeline, if
its duplicate code determines this msg is a duplicate and sets
duplicate True, it will remove ToOutgoing from the list of handlers
remaining to be processed, and the message will continue to be
processed normally including archiving, and appearing in the digests,
but it won't be queued for delivery by ToOutgoing.





>On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>> Chiang Wu wrote:
>>
>> >Hi. I was wondering if anyone knows a way to filter out, yet still
>> archieve
>> >new e-mails that have the same content as an already archived e-mail.
>>
>>
>> You would have to write a custom handler[1] to examine the content of
>> this mail and compare it to something and if it is a 'duplicate',
>> remove 'ToOutgoing' from the pipeline in this messages metadata.
>>
>> Comparing it to the archive is problematic because archiving is
>> asynchronous with incoming message processing, and if two 'duplicates'
>> arrive close in time, the first may not be archived when you process
>> the second.
>>
>> If you want to avoid truly identical content, this handler could keep a
>> small database of some hash of the content and its process time for
>> lookup as subsequent messages arrive. If the 'duplicate' content
>> differs in things like time stamps only, you could filter those before
>> hashing.
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  Sat Feb 27 18:03:17 2010
From: cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com (=?UTF-8?Q?C=C3=A9dric_Jeanneret?=)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:03:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>
	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <7f569b521002270903l1bb714cboe62c8d60a34a998@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 2/26/2010 4:20 AM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:08:06 -0800 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to create a xapian[1] indexer for our mailing list. As
>>>> mailman is written in Python and there are python bindings for
>>>> xapian, I guess I can maybe create a plugin for that. My first
>>>> question is : is there already such a thing ? I searched on the
>>>> net, but nothing appeared My second one : can we create a plugin
>>>> for mailman, if so, where should I go to have some doc ? seems
>>>> there's nothing in the wiki
>>>> (http://wiki.list.org/dosearchsite.action?searchQuery.queryString=plugin&searchQuery.spaceKey=conf_all)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
> Just to explain why I'd like to do that: we already have a xapian search
> engine in here, indexing a fileserver, request tracker queues and
> moinmoin wikis... so we'd like to aggregate all our stuff in one app for
> searching.
>>>
>>>
>>> This will be quite doable with Mailman 3 which is still in
>>> development.
>>>
>>> There are problems trying to do this in Mailman 2.1.x. There is a
>>> plugin capability of sorts in the form of custom handlers that can
>>> be added to the incoming message processing pipeline. See the FAQ
>>> at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>. However, archiving is
>>> asynchronous with incoming message processing, so it is not
>>> possible for a custom handler to know the URL that will ultimately
>>> retrieve the message from the archive.
>>>
>>> A different approach which might be workable is to use the
>>> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER hooks. If
>>> you set
>>>
>>> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/script.py'
>>> PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/script.py'
>>>
>>> in mm_cfg.py, then that script will be invoked do do the archiving.
>>> The script in turn could invoke the standard pipermail archiving
>>> process and then invoke xapian to index the archived message.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Hello again,
>>
>> Just one question : what do mlist, msg, msgdata stand for ? As I read
>> I've to create my module and define a "process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>> inside it, I'd like to know what are those objects. I discovered that
>> mlist stands for a Mailman.MailList.MailList('list-name'), but for
>> the others, it's a bit hard to find...
>
>
> Only custom handlers need to define process(mlist, msg, msgdata). That
> is the entry point to the handler and three objects are passed
>
> mlist is the Mailman.MailList.MailList() instance for the current list
>
> msg is a Mailman.Message.Message() (subclass of email.Message.Message)
> ? ?instance for the current message
>
> msgdata is a dictionary of the message metadata accumulated so far.
>
> The important thing is these are passed in as arguments to the handler
> process() function.
>
> In your case, you are defining a module which is going to be invoked
> like the following.
>
> Suppose that
>
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/myarch.py %(hostname)s %listname)s'
>
> It will be invoked in a pipe similar to
>
> cat raw_message | /path/to/myarch.py HOST LIST
>
> i.e. the command string with %(hostname)s and %listname)s replaced by
> the actual host name and list name of the list will be invoked and the
> message piped to it.
>
> So, it could begin something like:
>
> #!python
> import sys
> sys.path.insert(0, 'path/to/mailman/bin')
> # The above line can be skipped if myarch.py is in Mailman's
> # bin directory.
> import paths
>
> import email
> from Mailman import MailList
> from Mailman import Message
>
> msg = email.message_from_file(sys.stdin, Message.Message)
> mlist = MailList.MailList(sys.argv[1], lock=True)
>
>
> At this point, you have a list object (locked) and a message object. You
> might think you could just do
>
> mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>
> to archive the mail to the listname.mbox file and the pipermail archive,
> but that wouldn't quite work because that method would re-invoke the
> external archiver. Also, you don't need to worry about the listname.mbox
> file because the ArchiveMail() method already did that before invoking
> the external archiver, so what you would need is
>
> from Mailman.Archiver import HyperArch
> from cStringIO import StringIO
> f = StringIO(str(msg))
> h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist)
> h.processUnixMailbox(f)
> h.close()
> f.close()
>
> Which is what the ArchiveMail() method would do. Now you still have the
> mlist and msg objects, and you need to save and unlock the list at some
> point
>
> mlist.Save()
> mlist.Unlock()
>
> and the message is now in the pipermail archive and can be indexed.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

wow, thanks a lot, with all this I'll be able to do what I want!

I'll post all my stuff as soon as I've done it, hopefully next week :).

Thanks again.

Best regards,

C.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 27 20:29:32 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:29:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive nightmare with vhosts
In-Reply-To: <114874D0-0019-40A3-BABE-30788BE55BB7@bubba.org>
Message-ID: <PC19520100227112932034310256737@msapiro>

Brian Wilson wrote:
>
>On Feb 26, 2010, at 7:04 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>>> Brian Wilson wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> If i go to archives for a list: http://lists.example.com/pipermail/lists.example.com/test/, the html link that links to listinfo uses DEFAULT_URL_HOST instead of the urlhost for the list I'm on (link goes to http://DEFAULT_URL_HOST/mailman/listinfo/test).
>> 
>> 
>> I'm not going to fix this. The problem occurs because the
>> MailList.MailList.Create() method initializes web_page_url with
>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST. It then calls the archiver to initialize the
>> archives, and only after returning to the caller (bin/newlist or the
>> create CGI) is web_page_url updated with the correct host name.
>> 
>> It only affects the initial 'empty archive' page. the first post to the
>> list will regenerate all the archive pages and the listinfo link will
>> be correct.
>> 
>> Fixing this properly is way too much work for too little benefit.
>> 
>> I have published a Bazaar branch to lp:~msapiro/mailman/vhost
>> <https://code.launchpad.net/~msapiro/mailman/vhost> which contains all
>> the work I've done to date on this branch.
>> 
>
>Thanks, Mark!  I completely understand not fixing the 2nd issue.   I'll give this a whirl and see how it goes.


I have thought about this some more, and I see this is really an
upstream bug, and it's not that hard to fix. I've reported this at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/529100> and fixed it on the
2.1 branch. I've also merged all the post 2.1.13 fixes into the vhost
branch at <https://code.launchpad.net/~msapiro/mailman/vhost> so that
branch has this fix.

Note however that list creation in the vhost branch is not very smooth.

The create CGI does not create lists in virtual domains properly. Also,
if MTA = 'Postfix', the create CGI produces a 500 error instead of the
results page because output from print statements in MTA/Postfix.py
looks like invalid headers to the web server. So web list creation
really doesn't work.

Creation with bin/newlist does work, but requires that the virtual
domain be specified both as part of the list name and with -u as in

  bin/newlist -u virtual.example.com list at virtual.example.com

in order to properly create a virtual domain list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From john at cibolo.com  Sun Feb 28 17:59:06 2010
From: john at cibolo.com (John Griessen)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:59:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest mode links
Message-ID: <4B8AA0DA.4040909@cibolo.com>

Why do digest mode links rename a .jpg file?  A Mac OS X user can't see attachments.


URL: <http://lists.metalartists.org/mailman/private/sandbox/attachments/20100219/9e05e1cf/attachment.obj>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: DSC04246.JPG
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 153072 bytes
Desc: not available


Thanks,

John

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 28 19:03:26 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:03:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest mode links
In-Reply-To: <4B8AA0DA.4040909@cibolo.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201002281003260578cde3e81c@msapiro>

John Griessen wrote:

>Why do digest mode links rename a .jpg file?  A Mac OS X user can't see attachments.
>
>
>URL: <http://lists.metalartists.org/mailman/private/sandbox/attachments/20100219/9e05e1cf/attachment.obj>
>-------------- next part --------------
>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>Name: DSC04246.JPG
>Type: application/octet-stream
>Size: 153072 bytes
>Desc: not available


Because in your installation, the scrubber generates the extension from
the Content-Type which in this case is application/octet-stream and
not image/jpeg as it should be for a JPEG file.

This is really an issue with the MUA that composed the message, but if
you want Mailman to use the extension from the file name rather than
one appropriate for the Content-Type, you can set

SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = True

in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Sun Feb 28 23:27:11 2010
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:27:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest mode links
In-Reply-To: <4B8AA0DA.4040909@cibolo.com>
References: <4B8AA0DA.4040909@cibolo.com>
Message-ID: <4B8AEDBF.8040603@kreme.com>

On 28-Feb-10 09:59, John Griessen wrote:
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: DSC04246.JPG
> Type: application/octet-stream

Because it was defined incorrectly as an application/octet stream 
instead of as an image/jpeg


-- 
I draw the line at 7 unreturned phone calls.

From kremels at kreme.com  Sun Feb 28 23:34:38 2010
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:34:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest mode links
In-Reply-To: <PC195201002281003260578cde3e81c@msapiro>
References: <PC195201002281003260578cde3e81c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B8AEF7E.9070606@kreme.com>

On 28-Feb-10 11:03, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = True

Would that be considered unsafe?

I mean, it SEEMS unsafe, but is it really?

-- 
Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 28 23:59:05 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:59:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest mode links
In-Reply-To: <4B8AEF7E.9070606@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010022814590503129abedd3d@msapiro>

LuKreme wrote:

>On 28-Feb-10 11:03, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = True
>
>Would that be considered unsafe?
>
>I mean, it SEEMS unsafe, but is it really?


It could be. Suppose I send a message to your list with an attached
evil_app.exe file that I call Content-Type: text/plain without a
charset. This file now gets scrubbed stored on your server and is
accessable in your archives as a .exe file, so if someone retrieves it
and tries to open it, it will open as an executable.

If it were stored with an appropriate extension for its MIME type,
attempting to open it would probably try to open it with a text viewer
and just display garbage.

On the other hand, if you don't scrub_nondigest, it was already
delivered to your list's message and MIME digest members with it's
original file name and extension, and this has no effect on that, and
that's probably the more serious risk.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan