From thomas at ifi.uio.no  Sun Nov  1 01:43:31 2009
From: thomas at ifi.uio.no (Thomas Gramstad)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 01:43:31 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list bounces postings, cannot post
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0911010136340.6173@padme.ifi.uio.no>

Hi,

A new list in my Mailman installation refuses to let postings
from a subscriber and list administrator through (not sure if
this applies to all posters -- the list is new), and bounces
the postings instead. Below is the error message --
unfortunately in Norwegian -- maybe someone recognizes the
structure of the problem or has any suggestions or tips?

(The other, old lists at the server work just fine.)

Thomas Gramstad


  ----

Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 00:30:35 +0100                                       
From: mailman-bounces at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no                        
To: stoppdld-owner at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no                           
Subject: Returmelding som ikke ble fanget opp                               
Parts/Attachments:                                                          
   1   Shown     ~9 lines  Text                                             
   2   Shown    1.9 KB     Message, "Velkommen!"                            
   2.1 Shown     43 lines  Text                                             
----------------------------------------                                    

Den vedlagte meldingen ble mottatt som en returmelding, men enten er
formatet ukjent, eller s? kunne ingen medlemsadresse plukkes ut av
meldingen. Denne epostlisten er konfigurert slik at alle ukjente
returmeldinger sendes til listeadministratoren(e).

For mer informasjon, se:
http://mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no/mailman/admin/stoppdld/bounce




    [ Part 2: "Included Message" ]

[...posting deleted...]

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov  1 05:35:41 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:35:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list bounces postings, cannot post
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0911010136340.6173@padme.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <PC195200910312135410562733db79b@msapiro>

Thomas Gramstad wrote:
>
>A new list in my Mailman installation refuses to let postings
>from a subscriber and list administrator through (not sure if
>this applies to all posters -- the list is new), and bounces
>the postings instead. Below is the error message --
>unfortunately in Norwegian -- maybe someone recognizes the
>structure of the problem or has any suggestions or tips?
[...]
>From: mailman-bounces at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no
>To: stoppdld-owner at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no
>Subject: Returmelding som ikke ble fanget opp                               


The message is an uncaught bounce notification. This says either the
list posts are being sent to
stoppdld-bounces at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no (or possibly
stoppdld-admin at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no) instead of to
stoppdld at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no or something is wrong with the
aliases or other MTA configuration so that mail to
stoppdld at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no is being piped to the wrapper
with arguments "bounces stoppdld" instead of "post stoppdld".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From thomas at ifi.uio.no  Sun Nov  1 05:52:05 2009
From: thomas at ifi.uio.no (Thomas Gramstad)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 05:52:05 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list bounces postings, cannot post
In-Reply-To: <PC195200910312135410562733db79b@msapiro>
References: <PC195200910312135410562733db79b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0911010548200.6173@padme.ifi.uio.no>

On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Thomas Gramstad wrote:
> >
> >A new list in my Mailman installation refuses to let postings
> >from a subscriber and list administrator through (not sure if
> >this applies to all posters -- the list is new), and bounces
> >the postings instead. Below is the error message --
> >unfortunately in Norwegian -- maybe someone recognizes the
> >structure of the problem or has any suggestions or tips?
> [...]
> >From: mailman-bounces at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no
> >To: stoppdld-owner at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no
> >Subject: Returmelding som ikke ble fanget opp                               
> 
> 
> The message is an uncaught bounce notification. This says either the
> list posts are being sent to
> stoppdld-bounces at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no (or possibly
> stoppdld-admin at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no) instead of to
> stoppdld at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no or something is wrong with the
> aliases or other MTA configuration so that mail to
> stoppdld at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no is being piped to the wrapper
> with arguments "bounces stoppdld" instead of "post stoppdld".

The name of this list is 
stoppdld-admin at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no, in other words, "admin" 
is a part of the list name. Is that a problem? Is "-admin" a reserved 
suffix?

(Also, there is another separate list named
stoppdld at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no )

Thomas Gramstad

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Nov  1 06:43:59 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:43:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list bounces postings, cannot post
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0911010548200.6173@padme.ifi.uio.no>
References: <PC195200910312135410562733db79b@msapiro>
	<alpine.LRH.2.00.0911010548200.6173@padme.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <87eioidckg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Thomas Gramstad writes:

 > > The message is an uncaught bounce notification. This says either the
 > > list posts are being sent to
 > > stoppdld-bounces at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no (or possibly
 > > stoppdld-admin at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no) instead of to

 > The name of this list is
 > stoppdld-admin at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no, in other words,
 > "admin" is a part of the list name. Is that a problem? Is "-admin"
 > a reserved suffix?

Yes.  It's a backward-compatibility alias for -bounces IIRC.

I think all you need to do is find the alias that was created for the
stoppdld list, remove it, and rebuild your aliases.

I'm on a list which like yours want both LIST and LIST-admin lists,
and has had that configuration without trouble for some years.  If you
can't resolve the problem I can ask the admins how they have managed
this.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov  1 15:23:45 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:23:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list bounces postings, cannot post
In-Reply-To: <87eioidckg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC195200911010623450375bcbc6ea4@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Thomas Gramstad writes:
>
> > > The message is an uncaught bounce notification. This says either the
> > > list posts are being sent to
> > > stoppdld-bounces at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no (or possibly
> > > stoppdld-admin at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no) instead of to
>
> > The name of this list is
> > stoppdld-admin at mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no, in other words,
> > "admin" is a part of the list name. Is that a problem? Is "-admin"
> > a reserved suffix?
>
>Yes.  It's a backward-compatibility alias for -bounces IIRC.
>
>I think all you need to do is find the alias that was created for the
>stoppdld list, remove it, and rebuild your aliases.


Yes. As Stephen says, assuming your MTA uses aliases, if you just
remove the one unnecessary stoppdld-admin alias from the stoppdld list
aliases, you should be fine.

Alternatively, depending on the MTA, just reordering the aliases may
help. I.e. move whichever list's aliases now come first to a point in
the file after the others.

If you use an MTA like Exim or other process that delivers mail
programatically without aliases, just remove the -admin suffix from
its list. It's only for backwards compatibility with 2.0 for bounce
processing and isn't needed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn  Sun Nov  1 16:34:46 2009
From: hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn (Hien HUYNH HUU)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 22:34:46 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fake Email
In-Reply-To: <87ws2cgmia.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072D3442A@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>,
	<87ws2cgmia.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072D3442B@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>

Hi Stephen, 
   I can't do that because may be the sender is on another MTA and mailman server can't force they do an authentication.
   Is this a weak point of Mailman ?
   Best regards,
   Huu Hien

   
________________________________________
From: Stephen J. Turnbull [stephen at xemacs.org]
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:28 PM
To: Hien HUYNH HUU
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fake Email

Hien HUYNH HUU writes:

 >    I recognize that mailman can accept a fake sender . Example, I
 >    have a maillist with only an email account (xyz at abc.com) can
 >    send messages to all emails in the list. But , if someone can
 >    send a fake "From address" is xyz at abc.com, mailman will delivery
 >    messages to the list . This is a security problem. Can we
 >    prevent this from happening ?

Mailman is too far "downstream" to do this very effectively.  It is
possible to set up Mailman so that all posts will be moderated except
those containing an "Approved: PASSWORD" header.  This header is then
stripped from the distributed version.  However, such passwords can be
leaked in various ways or sniffed from the mail in the transport
between the sender and Mailman.  It's not terribly secure.

A better way to do this would be to set up the MTA on Mailman's host
to only deliver to the list address (ie, Mailman) if the sender has
been authenticated (eg, with TLS).

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Sun Nov  1 16:51:42 2009
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 17:51:42 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fake Email
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072D3442B@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072D3442A@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>,
	<87ws2cgmia.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072D3442B@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911011745330.3633@data.home>

Hi,

HOw would you propose such verification of the authenticity of a sender be 
performed in Mailman?

It's hard enough to do anyway, but as has been pointed out, it's probably 
more the function of the MTA than of Mailman.   The MTA can do things like 
insist on client-side certificates and other such measures which may or 
may not be helpful, and would have the advantage of screening out such 
Emails for everyone served by the mail server, not just the mailing lists.

Geoff.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov  1 16:54:45 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 07:54:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fake Email
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072D3442B@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <PC195200911010754450625fee8471e@msapiro>

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

>Hi Stephen, 
>   I can't do that because may be the sender is on another MTA and mailman server can't force they do an authentication.
>   Is this a weak point of Mailman ?


They still could connect and authenticate to the Mailman server's MTA
for list posting purposes.

If for some reason they can't (e.g. their ISP redirects all port 25
connects to it's own MTA), you're back to Stephen's first remark - you
can moderate everyone and post with an Approved: <password> header
where <password> is the list admin or moderator password. Setting and
using the moderator password is preferred to limit the damage in case
it leaks.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov  2 03:06:44 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:06:44 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fake Email
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072D3442B@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072D3442A@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<87ws2cgmia.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072D3442B@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <87y6mpr87f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Hien HUYNH HUU writes:
 > Hi Stephen, 
 >    I can't do that because may be the sender is on another MTA and mailman server can't force they do an authentication.
 >    Is this a weak point of Mailman ?

No, this is a weak point of your MTA.  The MTA has all the information
needed, and in principle can force an authentication.  Mailman only
knows what the MTA tells it.

Specifically, the SMTP protocol goes:

HELO                # the sender MTA identifies itself
MAIL FROM           # the sender MTA identifies the sender mailbox
RCPT TO             # the sender MTA identifies the recipients
DATA                # the sender MTA sends the message text including
                    # header fields
QUIT                # the sender MTA hangs up, session over

Now, the receiver MTA prepends some so-called "trace header" fields,
which usually contain the HELO, MAIL FROM, and RCPT TO information in
some form, as well as timestamps and queue IDs.  It may also transform
the Content-Transfer-Encoding of the body (eg, from BASE64 to 8bit or
vice versa).  *Otherwise it hands Mailman exactly the same DATA that
it got.*  That DATA could be the truth, it could be a lie, it could be
complete garbage.  The MTA doesn't care, and Mailman has no way to
check.

It's true, as Barry says, that you could use signed messages to
authenticate, but this is not as good, for three reasons:

(1) Mailman as distributed doesn't implement this yet.
(2) 3rd party patches are available but they have not been extensively
    tested.  TLS facilities of MTAs are in widespread use and have
    been thoroughly tested.
(3) Having Mailman do the authentication means accepting the mail at
    the MTA.  This opens you up to the annoyance of spam and the
    danger of a denial-of-service attack (either on your bandwidth or
    on your disk space).

If you really want Mailman to do the authentication, you can either
use the Approved header field, which is not very secure, or you can
use the 3rd-party patch to use public-key signatures which somebody
else mentioned.  I'm pretty sure that should work OK because the
theory is straightforward, but haven't reviewed it or used it myself,
YMMV.

From barry at python.org  Mon Nov  2 03:48:36 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 21:48:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fake Email
In-Reply-To: <87y6mpr87f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072D3442A@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<87ws2cgmia.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072D3442B@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<87y6mpr87f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <9E412302-10CA-43F4-97FC-9A93F1DB1060@python.org>

On Nov 1, 2009, at 9:06 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> If you really want Mailman to do the authentication, you can either
> use the Approved header field, which is not very secure, or you can
> use the 3rd-party patch to use public-key signatures which somebody
> else mentioned.  I'm pretty sure that should work OK because the
> theory is straightforward, but haven't reviewed it or used it myself,

In theory, it would also be possible for Mailman to trust  
authentication information that the receiving MTA placed into the  
headers.  It's the same as having Mailman inspect spam headers that  
some upstream-to-Mailman spam filter places into the message to  
determine whether the message should reach the list membership.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Mon Nov  2 03:52:41 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 21:52:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman roadmap
Message-ID: <8817269A-60B2-4160-A235-DD4F7CAD6024@python.org>

As you know, Mailman 2.1 has long been in maintenance-only mode.   
Mailman 2.2 was where we were going to add new features and update the  
user interface, without changing the basic model.  Mailman 3 was where  
we were going to fix the model and modernize the architecture to allow  
for better embedded use.  Mark has been doing an incredible job fixing  
Mailman 2.1, and forward porting these fixes to Mailman 2.2.  I have  
been working on Mailman 3 and have released several alphas.

The current state of affairs is not ideal though.  Neither 2.2 nor 3.0  
has been released, there is confusion in the community as to which  
version to develop patches for, and frustration on our part that we  
have divided efforts and not as much community participation as we'd  
like.

Mark and I have decided therefore to combine our efforts under Mailman  
3, and we invite you to join us.  Working together, I feel confident  
that we can have a solid release of Mailman 3 very soon, hopefully by  
the end of the year.  Patrick Koetter and his group have expressed  
interest and resources in helping jump start the new Mailman user  
interface, which will be built on top of Mailman 3's REST interface.   
What do /you/ want to work on? :)

Here's the plan: Mark is going to put a 2.1.13 bug fix release out  
soon and will continue to fix only the most important bugs on the 2.1  
branch.  He'll forward port those fixes to the 2.2 branch for the few  
people who are running it from source, but there will never be a  
Mailman 2.2 release.  For all practical purposes, Mailman 2.2 is  
dead.  Mark will be joining me to focus all new development work on  
Mailman 3.0.

I hope this brings clarity to where we're going, and I hope that the  
renewed and concentrated efforts will encourage you to pull down the  
Mailman 3.0 code or alphas and begin testing and developing for it.

Enjoy,
-Barry

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From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Mon Nov  2 06:10:42 2009
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:10:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman roadmap
In-Reply-To: <8817269A-60B2-4160-A235-DD4F7CAD6024@python.org>
References: <8817269A-60B2-4160-A235-DD4F7CAD6024@python.org>
Message-ID: <20091102051042.GA24517@mail.incertum.net>

* Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org>:
[...]
> Here's the plan: Mark is going to put a 2.1.13 bug fix release out soon
> and will continue to fix only the most important bugs on the 2.1 branch.
> He'll forward port those fixes to the 2.2 branch for the few people who
> are running it from source, but there will never be a Mailman 2.2
> release.  For all practical purposes, Mailman 2.2 is dead.  Mark will be
> joining me to focus all new development work on Mailman 3.0.

Yay - go 49ers! ;-)


Cheers
Stefan

From listeyon at metu.edu.tr  Mon Nov  2 14:04:16 2009
From: listeyon at metu.edu.tr (liste yoneticisi)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:04:16 +0200 (WET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Couldn't change newlist.txt for tr version
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009102120192407188e566e26@msapiro>
References: <PC1922009102120192407188e566e26@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.58.0911021439060.1237126@beluga>

Hi;

I tried to make a global change for newlist welcome message.

For English version, I changed the file;
/cwis/htdocs/mailman/templates/en/newlist.txt

and it worked. ie the changes effected in the newlist information file.

But the similar changes didn't affected for
/cwis/htdocs/mailman/templates/tr/newlist.txt
file,

ie for Turkish new lists, list owner receives older version of
newlist.txt, the file that doesn't exist anywhere.

Can you please tell me what is wrong about it?

Mailman Version is 2.1.19

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov  2 16:12:53 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:12:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Couldn't change newlist.txt for tr version
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.58.0911021439060.1237126@beluga>
Message-ID: <PC195200911020712530484134c9ad9@msapiro>

liste yoneticisi wrote:
>
>I tried to make a global change for newlist welcome message.
>
>For English version, I changed the file;
>/cwis/htdocs/mailman/templates/en/newlist.txt
>
>and it worked. ie the changes effected in the newlist information file.
>
>But the similar changes didn't affected for
>/cwis/htdocs/mailman/templates/tr/newlist.txt
>file,
>
>ie for Turkish new lists, list owner receives older version of
>newlist.txt, the file that doesn't exist anywhere.
>
>Can you please tell me what is wrong about it?


In some cases you have to restart Mailman after making template changes
because templates are cached in a qrunner, but this normally affects
only templates related to archives and shouldn't be required here, so
I don't know what could be wrong.

However, assuming /cwis/htdocs/mailman/ is the Mailman installation
$prefix directory, you should not edit the files you edited, because
if you ever upgrade, your changes will be overwritten. To create
sitewide edited templates, you should create the directories
/cwis/htdocs/mailman/templates/site/tr/ and
/cwis/htdocs/mailman/templates/site/en/ and put your edited templates
there. That way, they will not be overwritten in an upgrade. See the
FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From savoy at uleth.ca  Mon Nov  2 23:17:34 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:17:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009102120192407188e566e26@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010889D7@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC1922009102120192407188e566e26@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECAF@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>

>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>What you need is a custom handler. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> for how to install one.

Thank you. Done.

>In your case, the handler is very simple - just 9 lines.

>import re
>cre = re.compile('unique\.name', re.IGNORECASE)
>def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>    if mlist.internal_name <> 'abc-l':
>        return
>    if cre.search(msg.get('to', '')):
>        msgdata['approved'] = 1
>        # Used by the Emergency module
>        msgdata['adminapproved'] = 1

>Of course, you adjust the regexp 'unique\.name' and the list name
>'abc-l' to suit. The handler needs to be in the pipeline before
>Moderate.

OK - I made a file called Foo.py and put it in /Mailman/Handlers.
I then inserted this module right before 'Moderate' in the pipeline (I
editted
Defaults.py for this - just as a temporary measure to see if it would
work).
I will remove this and add a line to mm_cfg.py later.

I then stopped/started the Mailman processes (not sure if that's
necessary, but 
I did it anyway). Now the test email I sent is stuck in the shunt queue
and this
is in the errors log:

File "/Mailman/Handlers/Foo.py", line 2
     cre = re.compile('unique\.name', re.IGNORECASE) def process(mlist,
msg, msgdata):
                                                       ^
 SyntaxError: invalid syntax


It didn't line up well in this email message, but the carat (^) is
positioned
under the 'f' in the "def".

I know diddly about Python (and not that much more about Mailman,
really) so I'm not
sure how to fix the problem. Any ideas? Thanks!

 - jim -


From savoy at uleth.ca  Mon Nov  2 23:23:38 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:23:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009102120192407188e566e26@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010889D7@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC1922009102120192407188e566e26@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECB2@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>

I also just noticed that the shunt queue started to fill up with
messages
for other lists as well, so I quickly removed the line I had inserted
into
Defaults.py, stopped/started the Mailman processes, and successfully
unshunted
everything. I was hoping the code would only affect the one list I am
messing
with, but I guess if there is a syntax error in it, it breaks the entire
pipeline (maybe).


From savoy at uleth.ca  Mon Nov  2 23:35:12 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:35:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009102120192407188e566e26@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010889D7@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC1922009102120192407188e566e26@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECB6@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>

I also just noticed that all of the other handlers have an accompanying
.pyc file, but my Foo.py does not. Perhaps that 'c' stands for
"compiled"
and I was supposed to compile the code first? (probably seems obvious to
someone familiar with Mailman/Python).

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon Nov  2 23:44:09 2009
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 00:44:09 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECB6@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010889D7@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC1922009102120192407188e566e26@msapiro>
	<366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECB6@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911030041170.2693@data.home>

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009, Savoy, Jim wrote:

> I also just noticed that all of the other handlers have an accompanying
> .pyc file, but my Foo.py does not. Perhaps that 'c' stands for
> "compiled"

It does.

> and I was supposed to compile the code first? (probably seems obvious to
> someone familiar with Mailman/Python).

No.  The code is automatically compiled if there is no pyc file or the py 
file is different.

Presumably there's no pyc file because of your syntax error.  At a guess, 
I'd say that the def statement should be on a new line, but I'm not a 
Python expert.

Geoff.


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov  2 23:50:35 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 14:50:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECAF@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1952009110214503506566f271fb3@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:

>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>What you need is a custom handler. See the FAQ at
><http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> for how to install one.
>
>Thank you. Done.
>
>>In your case, the handler is very simple - just 9 lines.
>
>>import re
>>cre = re.compile('unique\.name', re.IGNORECASE)
>>def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>>    if mlist.internal_name <> 'abc-l':
>>        return
>>    if cre.search(msg.get('to', '')):
>>        msgdata['approved'] = 1
>>        # Used by the Emergency module
>>        msgdata['adminapproved'] = 1
>
>>Of course, you adjust the regexp 'unique\.name' and the list name
>>'abc-l' to suit. The handler needs to be in the pipeline before
>>Moderate.
>
>OK - I made a file called Foo.py and put it in /Mailman/Handlers.
>I then inserted this module right before 'Moderate' in the pipeline (I
>editted
>Defaults.py for this - just as a temporary measure to see if it would
>work).
>I will remove this and add a line to mm_cfg.py later.
>
>I then stopped/started the Mailman processes (not sure if that's
>necessary, but 
>I did it anyway). Now the test email I sent is stuck in the shunt queue
>and this
>is in the errors log:
>
>File "/Mailman/Handlers/Foo.py", line 2
>     cre = re.compile('unique\.name', re.IGNORECASE) def process(mlist,
>msg, msgdata):
>                                                       ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax


You used some kind of word processor to create foo.py that concatenated
lines 2 and 3 into a single line. Your Foo.py file must be just like
my original example with lines 1, 2 and 3 at the left margin, lines 4
and 6 indented 4 spaces and lines 5, 7, 8 and 9 indented 8 spaces.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov  2 23:53:43 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 14:53:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECB2@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC19520091102145343040626291381@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:

>I also just noticed that the shunt queue started to fill up with
>messages
>for other lists as well, so I quickly removed the line I had inserted
>into
>Defaults.py, stopped/started the Mailman processes, and successfully
>unshunted
>everything. I was hoping the code would only affect the one list I am
>messing
>with, but I guess if there is a syntax error in it, it breaks the entire
>pipeline (maybe).


Because your handler is in the GLOBAL_PIPELINE and it has a syntax
error, every message encounters the SyntaxError exception and the
message is shunted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From savoy at uleth.ca  Tue Nov  3 00:29:37 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:29:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009110214503506566f271fb3@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECAF@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC1952009110214503506566f271fb3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECCE@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>You used some kind of word processor to create foo.py that concatenated
lines 2 and 3 into a single line. Your Foo.py file must be just like
my original example with lines 1, 2 and 3 at the left margin, lines 4
and 6 indented 4 spaces and lines 5, 7, 8 and 9 indented 8 spaces.

These words you are saying are all true. I just "cut" your code in
Outlook and "pasted" it in vi. I will try it again with the indenting
you suggested (reminds me of Fortran!). Thanks.

 - jim -
 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov  3 00:53:08 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:53:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECCE@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC195200911021553080781dc1d5855@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>>You used some kind of word processor to create foo.py that concatenated
>lines 2 and 3 into a single line. Your Foo.py file must be just like
>my original example with lines 1, 2 and 3 at the left margin, lines 4
>and 6 indented 4 spaces and lines 5, 7, 8 and 9 indented 8 spaces.
>
>These words you are saying are all true. I just "cut" your code in
>Outlook and "pasted" it in vi. I will try it again with the indenting
>you suggested (reminds me of Fortran!). Thanks.


Depending on the options set in vi, it can do horrible things to
indentation when you paste things in :(

Python is not at all like Fortran, In Fortran (at least through Fortran
IV - I never did much with Fortran 77 and nothing beyond that) white
space except for line endings is totally insignificant. True, you have
some formatting restrictions like positions 1 - 5 for statement
numbers, 6 for continuation and 7 - 72 for statements (although some
compilers relaxed these), but consider that the compiler's
parser/tokenizer doesn't know whether

      do 5 i = 1, 10

is a do loop or an assignment to a variable named do5i until it gets to
the comma.

In Python, whitespace is of utmost significance. You either love it or
hate it, but block structure is based entirely on indentation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From savoy at uleth.ca  Tue Nov  3 01:05:07 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 17:05:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911021553080781dc1d5855@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECCE@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC195200911021553080781dc1d5855@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECDF@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>

>Depending on the options set in vi, it can do horrible things to
indentation when you paste things in :(

I just looked at your original posting (using Outlook) and line 3 is
not indented, but rather continuous from line 2, and the other indents
are in columns 5 and 9 (not 4 and 8). I shall try viewing it with other
mail clients, just for kicks.

But now that I know that whitespace is critical in Python, I will be
more
careful.


>Python is not at all like Fortran, In Fortran (at least through Fortran
IV - I never did much with Fortran 77 and nothing beyond that) white
space except for line endings is totally insignificant. True, you have
some formatting restrictions like positions 1 - 5 for statement numbers,
6 for continuation and 7 - 72 for statements (although some compilers
relaxed these), but consider that the compiler's parser/tokenizer
doesn't know whether

I was loosely referring to Fortran reserving certain columns for certain
things. I barely remember it at all (that was back in my pre-Commodore64
(PEEKin' and POKEin' anyone?), punched-hole card days).

 - jim -




From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov  3 01:30:52 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:30:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECDF@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC195200911021630520171b825291f@msapiro>

>I just looked at your original posting (using Outlook) and line 3 is
>not indented, but rather continuous from line 2, and the other indents
>are in columns 5 and 9 (not 4 and 8). I shall try viewing it with other
>mail clients, just for kicks. Right - column 5 IS indented 4 spaces from column 1 and column 9 is indented 8 spaces from column 1 which is what I meant. And line 3 should not be indented, but also not be joined to the end of line 2 which is apparently the only real problem with your file.


Look at my original in the archive at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-October/067496.html>
or even as quoted in your reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-November/067555.html>.

Both of those show proper formatting. I guess that's just one more
thing we can't trust Outlook to do.

BTW, indentation in steps of 4 is only a convention, it isn't
mandatory. The indentation could be 1 space and 2 spaces or 1 tab and
2 tabs or even 4 spaces and 1 tab, although mixing spaces and tabs is
dangerous and highly frowned upon. However, in any case, the highest
level (the first 3 lines in the example) must not be indented at all.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stucki at mi.fu-berlin.de  Tue Nov  3 13:03:23 2009
From: stucki at mi.fu-berlin.de (Chr. von Stuckrad)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 13:03:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help (OT: Edit and Mail)
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECDF@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECCE@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC195200911021553080781dc1d5855@msapiro>
	<366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DECDF@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <20091103120323.GD16972@localhost.mi.fu-berlin.de>

On Mon, 02 Nov 2009, Savoy, Jim wrote:

> >Depending on the options set in vi, it can do horrible things to
> indentation when you paste things in :(

:-) seen that!  Therefore modern vims have :set paste<enter>
and as long as you not 'set nopaste' *no* munging of pastes will be
done! I'm needing/using that all the time, I might even put it
into my '.vimrc' and make it default ...

> I just looked at your original posting (using Outlook) and line 3 is
> not indented, but rather continuous from line 2, and the other indents
> are in columns 5 and 9 (not 4 and 8). I shall try viewing it with other
> mail clients, just for kicks.

'outlook' is a <insert favorite expletive here> for programmers.
By Default it *reformats* everything to 'Paragraphs' of the form:
- everything NOT split by an empty line is 'supposed to be a useless
linebreak for mailtransfer', then it collects all those lines and
reformats the resulting words with single whitespaces to window-size.
- an empty line means 'paragraph end', so itself may vanish anyway
only the linebreak in a paragraph stays.

It's like Microsoft(office)Word's view of Text and you are supposed
to write html or rtf anyway :-)

If hints(warnings, whatever) are on, you'll see a line above your
munged mail, saying it removed useless newlines, and by clicking
it you can get them back. 

Stucki

From savoy at uleth.ca  Tue Nov  3 23:05:53 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 15:05:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009102120192407188e566e26@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010889D7@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC1922009102120192407188e566e26@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DED91@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>

Hi Mark,

   I got it to compile properly, but it is still not working.
I made the following changes in Foo.py:

import re
cre = re.compile('test.account', re.IGNORECASE)
def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    if mlist.internal_name <> 'abc-l':
        return
    if cre.search(msg.get('to', '')):
        msgdata['approved'] = 1
        # Used by the Emergency module
        msgdata['adminapproved'] = 1


Goal: The account test.account at uleth.ca is set to forward mail to the
mailing
list abc-l at uleth.ca, which should accept it, regardless of who sent it
to
test.account at uleth.ca (all other mail to this list from non-members will
be
rejected).


You also wrote:

>if the contents of the To: header of the message matches the regexp in
>re.compile() case insensitively, then the approved and adminapproved
>flags will be set in the message metadata and the message won't be
>subject to any holds.

So when you say "matches the regexp" do you mean "exactly" matches? And
if so,
would your regexp work? Or do I need a more specific or accompanying
regexp in
the re.compile statement? eg

cre = re.compile('test.account at uleth.ca', re.IGNORECASE)

Thanks.

 - jim -


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  4 00:00:49 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 15:00:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DED91@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1952009110315004902657c22a2fa@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:

>Hi Mark,
>
>   I got it to compile properly, but it is still not working.
>I made the following changes in Foo.py:
>
>import re
>cre = re.compile('test.account', re.IGNORECASE)
>def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>    if mlist.internal_name <> 'abc-l':
>        return
>    if cre.search(msg.get('to', '')):
>        msgdata['approved'] = 1
>        # Used by the Emergency module
>        msgdata['adminapproved'] = 1
>
>
>Goal: The account test.account at uleth.ca is set to forward mail to the
>mailing
>list abc-l at uleth.ca, which should accept it, regardless of who sent it
>to
>test.account at uleth.ca (all other mail to this list from non-members will
>be
>rejected).


Did you put 'Foo' back in the GLOBAL_PIPELINE prior to 'Moderate' and
restart Mailman?

What happens when you mail to test.account? Is the mail rejected by
Mailman? Does the To: header in the mail in the reject notice contain
'test.account'?


>You also wrote:
>
>>if the contents of the To: header of the message matches the regexp in
>>re.compile() case insensitively, then the approved and adminapproved
>>flags will be set in the message metadata and the message won't be
>>subject to any holds.
>
>So when you say "matches the regexp" do you mean "exactly" matches? And
>if so,
>would your regexp work?


Since that regexp 'test.account' is not anchored and is searched for by
the re.search() method, it means if the string 'test' in any
combination of upper/lower case followed by any single character (the
. matches any character) followed by the string 'account' in any
combination of upper/lower case is in the To: header, it will match.


>Or do I need a more specific or accompanying
>regexp in
>the re.compile statement? eg
>
>cre = re.compile('test.account at uleth.ca', re.IGNORECASE)


You could do that, or even 'test\.account at uleth\.ca' or other, even
more restrictive tests on the To: header, but what are the chances of
some mail being delivered to the abc-l list from a non-member with
'test.account' somewhere in the To: header, if it wasn't sent to the
proper test.account at uleth.ca address?

Some non-list member could mail

To: <abc-l at ...>, <my-test-account at example.com>

and the regexp 'test.account' would accept that mail. If you're
concerned about this, you could use a regexp like

  '(^|[\s<])test\.account at uleth\.ca($|[\s>])'

to require the exact address test.account at uleth.ca delimited by white
space, angle brackets or the start and end of the string, but there
are probably better ways of doing this such as using email utilities
to parse the To: header for all addresses and then testing to see that
'test.account at uleth.ca' is there and 'abc-l at ...' is not, but all that
seems unnecessary unless you're going to look at Received: headers too.

I.e., if I'm trying to fool you, I can always create a message To:
test.account at uleth.ca and send it directly to the abc-l list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From savoy at uleth.ca  Wed Nov  4 00:24:07 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:24:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009110315004902657c22a2fa@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DED91@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC1952009110315004902657c22a2fa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DEDBD@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>


Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Did you put 'Foo' back in the GLOBAL_PIPELINE prior to 'Moderate' and
restart Mailman?

I did.

>What happens when you mail to test.account? Is the mail rejected by
Mailman? Does the To: header in the mail in the reject notice contain
'test.account'?

Yes, it is rejected. And the To: header does not come from test.account
but rather from the actual sender. Inside of what looks like an Exchange
attachment, I can see the full original message, with the To: header
displaying test.account. So it looks like the Exchange server may be
wrapping up the original message and obscuring the headers.


>Since that regexp 'test.account' is not anchored and is searched for by
the re.search() method, it means if the string 'test' in any
combination of upper/lower case followed by any single character (the
. matches any character) followed by the string 'account' in any
combination of upper/lower case is in the To: header, it will match.

OK - that's close enough for me. I don't really need to be that specific
anyway because my test.account (not the real name of the account) is
quite
a unique and unusual name.

I have just received word from the owners of this list that they no
longer
care about me doing this (they have just opened the list up to anyone)
so I probably won't spend too much more time on it now, especially if
the Exchange server (which I don't have access to) is obscuring the
original
headers from Mailman. Since we have exim as a front-end to Mailman, I
can
probably just do some sort of a re-write in there instead.

But thanks anyway. It was an interesting foray into Python for me!

 - jim -



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  4 00:40:17 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 15:40:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DEDBD@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC195200911031540170437188c2206@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>Did you put 'Foo' back in the GLOBAL_PIPELINE prior to 'Moderate' and
>restart Mailman?
>
>I did.
>
>>What happens when you mail to test.account? Is the mail rejected by
>Mailman? Does the To: header in the mail in the reject notice contain
>'test.account'?
>
>Yes, it is rejected. And the To: header does not come from test.account
>but rather from the actual sender.


That would be the To: header of the reject notice.


>Inside of what looks like an Exchange
>attachment, I can see the full original message, with the To: header
>displaying test.account. So it looks like the Exchange server may be
>wrapping up the original message and obscuring the headers.


Mailman sends a multipart/mixed message with two parts - a text/plain
part containing the reject reason and a message/rfc822 part containing
the post as received by Mailman. It is the message in this
message/rfc822 part that is what Mailman saw. If that is not the
original post, but somehow got wrapped by Exchange in the forwarding
process, you'll have to take that into account.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From savoy at uleth.ca  Wed Nov  4 18:19:46 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:19:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] regexp help
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911031540170437188c2206@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DEDBD@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC195200911031540170437188c2206@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B010DEE37@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>


>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>That would be the To: header of the reject notice.

Yes. That is the message I am analyzing.

>Mailman sends a multipart/mixed message with two parts - a text/plain
>part containing the reject reason and a message/rfc822 part containing
>the post as received by Mailman. It is the message in this
>message/rfc822 part that is what Mailman saw. If that is not the
>original post, but somehow got wrapped by Exchange in the forwarding
>process, you'll have to take that into account.

Got it. Under the message/rfc822 part, the To: header says
test.account at uleth.ca.

So in theory, it should accept this message. I will re-analyze
everything to
make sure there are no typos. Thanks.

 - jim -




From b19141 at anl.gov  Thu Nov  5 22:35:42 2009
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 2009 15:35:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Password Completion Vulnerability
Message-ID: <20091105213542.4699916F51@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

My Mailman 2.1.12 server was flagged with a low-risk vulnerability:

     42057 Web Server Allows Password Auto-Completion

and I cannot tell from the description what URLs have this
vulnerability, nor do I know how to correct it.  I know little
about apache.  One Google search at this URL

    https://developer.mozilla.org/en/How_to_Turn_Off_Form_Autocompletion

shows:

--------
For example, a typical form element line with autocompletion turned off
might look like the following: 

     <form name="form1" id="form1" method="post" autocomplete="off"
       action="http://www.example.com/form.cgi">
     [...]
     </form>

This form attribute is not part of any web standards but was first
introduced in Microsoft's Internet Explorer 5. Netscape introduced it
in version 6.2 -- in prior versions, this attribute is ignored. The
autocomplete attribute was added at the insistance of banks and card
issuers -- but never followed through on to reach standards
certification.
--------

Am I correct in assuming that in order to "fix" this, I would have to
go to directory

     /etc/mailman/en

and modify these HTML files that contain the string "password":

     admlogin.html    contains "<FORM METHOD=POST ACTION="%(path)s">"
     listinfo.html    contains "<MM-Roster-Form-Start>"
     options.html     contains "<MM-Form-Start>"

and the place where the two "Form-Start" strings are defined,
In ther long run, is the change worth making?  Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 240, Room 5.B.8             Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From Jan at Bytesmiths.com  Thu Nov  5 23:46:19 2009
From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:46:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 69, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <mailman.44.1257332402.8694.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.44.1257332402.8694.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <5438E708-2C29-4091-BF2A-4C9C129A6A7C@Bytesmiths.com>

(WARNING: top posting seems appropriate here...)

But Stucki, Microsoft knows what's good for you!

On 4 Nov 09, at 03:00, mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:

> From: "Chr. von Stuckrad" <stucki at mi.fu-berlin.de>
> Date: 3 November 2009 04:03:23 PST (CA)
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] regexp help (OT: Edit and Mail)
>
>
> On Mon, 02 Nov 2009, Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>>> Depending on the options set in vi, it can do horrible things to
>> indentation when you paste things in :(
>
> :-) seen that!  Therefore modern vims have :set paste<enter>
> and as long as you not 'set nopaste' *no* munging of pastes will be
> done! I'm needing/using that all the time, I might even put it
> into my '.vimrc' and make it default ...
>
>> I just looked at your original posting (using Outlook) and line 3 is
>> not indented, but rather continuous from line 2, and the other  
>> indents
>> are in columns 5 and 9 (not 4 and 8). I shall try viewing it with  
>> other
>> mail clients, just for kicks.
>
> 'outlook' is a <insert favorite expletive here> for programmers.
> By Default it *reformats* everything to 'Paragraphs' of the form:
> - everything NOT split by an empty line is 'supposed to be a useless
> linebreak for mailtransfer', then it collects all those lines and
> reformats the resulting words with single whitespaces to window-size.
> - an empty line means 'paragraph end', so itself may vanish anyway
> only the linebreak in a paragraph stays.
>
> It's like Microsoft(office)Word's view of Text and you are supposed
> to write html or rtf anyway :-)
>
> If hints(warnings, whatever) are on, you'll see a line above your
> munged mail, saying it removed useless newlines, and by clicking
> it you can get them back.
>
> Stucki
>


:::: Modern agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into  
food. Without petroleum we will not be able to feed the global  
population. -- Robert L. Hickerson ::::
:::: Jan Steinman <http://www.VeggieVanGogh.com> ::::



From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov  6 00:09:49 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 15:09:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Password Completion Vulnerability
In-Reply-To: <20091105213542.4699916F51@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1952009110515094904532aa888b6@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>Am I correct in assuming that in order to "fix" this, I would have to
>go to directory
>
>     /etc/mailman/en
>
>and modify these HTML files that contain the string "password":
>
>     admlogin.html    contains "<FORM METHOD=POST ACTION="%(path)s">"
>     listinfo.html    contains "<MM-Roster-Form-Start>"
>     options.html     contains "<MM-Form-Start>"
>
>and the place where the two "Form-Start" strings are defined,
>In ther long run, is the change worth making?  Thanks.


It is more complex than that, but do you want to do it? If I understand
correctly, the consequences will be that at least simple, web browser
password managers will not remember these passwords for their users.

There is a downside to not disabling browser password management in
that a user at a public work station can allow a browser to remember a
password and this is bad, but whether this is something worth
disabling all password management for is something you need to
consider.

If you want to do it, the places where Mailman accepts passwords are:

- the admin and admindb login pages which are built from the
admlogin.html template

- the private archive login page which is built from the private.html
template

- the user options login page which is hard coded in the loginpage()
function in Mailman/Cgi/options.py

- the roster request form on the listinfo page built using the
<MM-Roster-Form-Start> tag on the listinfo.html template.

- the subscribe form on the listinfo page built using the
<MM-Subscribe-Form-Start> tag on the listinfo.html template.

- the password change fields which are part of the entire, multi-button
form on the user options page using the <MM-Form-Start> tag.

You do not edit templates in the various templates/en/, etc.
directories. If you want to make site wide edited templates, you put
them in directories named templates/site/en/, etc. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9>.

All the various <MM-*Form-Start> tags are ultimately processed by the
FormatFormStart() method defined in Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Fri Nov  6 14:56:00 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 06:56:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Password Completion Vulnerability
In-Reply-To: <20091105213542.4699916F51@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
References: <20091105213542.4699916F51@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <B241C08C-7E3D-43C4-9DD2-0E0DD7FBDC40@kreme.com>

On 5-Nov-2009, at 14:35, Barry Finkel wrote:
> Am I correct in assuming that in order to "fix" this, I would have to
> go to directory


When you 'fix' this you piss people off.  Severely.

-- 
I've got Mathematica 2.2 on my Quadra


From jamessadri at googlemail.com  Tue Nov  3 13:44:09 2009
From: jamessadri at googlemail.com (James Sadri)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 12:44:09 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Googlemail vs Gmail Bounce
Message-ID: <4d24195a0911030444k15aed1d7yd9ed85e7b99cc7b3@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

This is not the standard Gmail issue about receiving a copy of your posts.

I have an issue with people using @gmail and @googlemail domains
interchangably. I know some mailing lists you can configure to treat them as
the same - is there a way to do that with Mailman?

If someone subscribes with JOHNDOE at gmail.com it would be great if sending
email from JOHNDOE at googlemail.com didn't bounce.

Any ideas?

Cheers,

James

From molly-burns at pacd.org  Sun Nov  1 12:01:52 2009
From: molly-burns at pacd.org (molly-burns at pacd.org)
Date: 1 Nov 2009 05:01:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users]
	=?utf-8?q?Mailman-Users_Digest=2C_Vol_69=2C_Issue?= =?utf-8?q?_1?=
Message-ID: <20091101110152.14507.qmail@188081-web1.secure-display.com>

I am currently out of the office. If you require immediate assistance, please contact the PACD office at (717) 238-7223.

Thank you,

Molly Burns



From acleveland at rac-host.com  Mon Nov  2 00:47:45 2009
From: acleveland at rac-host.com (Allison)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 17:47:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get off a list.
Message-ID: <019201ca5b4d$b71fbb80$255f3280$@com>

Years ago, I was subscribed to an email list.  Since then, the owner lost
the domain, but each month I still get a user name and password reminder.
I'd love to unsubscribe, but the domain is no longer registered, therefore
email and links do not work.  I just want to stop getting the reminders from
this dead list.  I was unable to find a solution on your website, nor to I
wish to be a part of a mailing list just to get off of a mailing list.
Please advise.

 

Thank you,

Allison Cleveland

 

Below is the email I get, minus the password.

 

This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your themagickdragon.net
mailing list memberships.  It includes your subscription info and how to use
it to change it or unsubscribe from a list.

 

You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration,
including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery
altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

 

In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such
changes.  For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the
list (for example, aw_secretsanta-request at themagickdragon.net)

containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message
will be sent to you with instructions.

 

If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to
aw_secretsanta-owner at themagickdragon.net.  Thanks!

 

Passwords for lvx at esoteric-lvx.net:

 


From UpscaleWelding at aol.com  Mon Nov  2 02:49:36 2009
From: UpscaleWelding at aol.com (UpscaleWelding at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:49:36 EST
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe request
Message-ID: <bfb.69a31be6.381f94b0@aol.com>

Please unsubscribe me from your list.

From molly-burns at pacd.org  Mon Nov  2 04:12:02 2009
From: molly-burns at pacd.org (molly-burns at pacd.org)
Date: 1 Nov 2009 21:12:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users]
	=?utf-8?q?Mailman-Users_Digest=2C_Vol_69=2C_Issue?= =?utf-8?q?_2?=
Message-ID: <20091102031202.30180.qmail@188081-web1.secure-display.com>

I am currently out of the office. If you require immediate assistance, please contact the PACD office at (717) 238-7223.

Thank you,

Molly Burns



From molly-burns at pacd.org  Mon Nov  2 12:10:16 2009
From: molly-burns at pacd.org (molly-burns at pacd.org)
Date: 2 Nov 2009 05:10:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users]
	=?utf-8?q?Mailman-Users_Digest=2C_Vol_69=2C_Issue?= =?utf-8?q?_3?=
Message-ID: <20091102111016.10054.qmail@188081-web1.secure-display.com>

I am currently out of the office. If you require immediate assistance, please contact the PACD office at (717) 238-7223.

Thank you,

Molly Burns



From tkuntz1 at purdue.edu  Mon Nov  2 20:17:18 2009
From: tkuntz1 at purdue.edu (Kuntz, Taina M.)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 14:17:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrator Authentication
Message-ID: <DACA6095D9B579419ED9012753D8A36380EC4544B0@VPEXCH05.purdue.lcl>

I am the List Administrator for a couple of mailing lists. I am unable to get into the system.
I'm not sure if I typed my password incorrectly too many times or if I've forgotten my password.
Is it possible to get my password reset?

Thanks!
Taina (tkuntz at purdue.edu)

Taina M. Kuntz
Account Assist., Executive Offices
Hovde Hall of Administration, Rm 100
610 Purdue Mall
Purdue University
West Lafayette IN 47907-2040
765-496-3323
fax: 765-496-2031


From plyovkin at irex.ua  Tue Nov  3 11:40:04 2009
From: plyovkin at irex.ua (Pavlo Lyovkin)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 12:40:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Mailman
Message-ID: <33d578cd0911030240s2d5cc0a0i1cea73b603a18fde@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!
I am an IT-assistant and got the task to find some software to make possible
the migration of our mailing lists from MailMan on freeBSD to Microsoft
operating system. Do you know such software?
Thanks a lot...

-- 
Pavlo Lyovkin
IT Assistant
IREX-Ukraine

From francesco22 at bluewin.ch  Tue Nov  3 16:43:55 2009
From: francesco22 at bluewin.ch (lady)
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:43:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] i need help for linux ubuntu
Message-ID: <1257263035.8405.47.camel@lady-desktop>

marted? 3 novembre 2009

hi
BUONASERA,

Saluti a tutti gli utenti ? la 1a volta che entro nel Mailman. Ho
guardato spesso delle mail per sapere cose varie. 

Le mie domande: 
Come sapere differenze per esempio fra Gnome e KDE di Ubuntu nel mio
caso. Poi Dovrei sapere di pi? sulle differenze tra Linux Ubuntu e
Xubuntu che conosco pochissimo. Grazie di tutto Lady 

I need help for linux ubuntu 



From tkuntz1 at purdue.edu  Wed Nov  4 17:57:05 2009
From: tkuntz1 at purdue.edu (Kuntz, Taina M.)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:57:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Administrator Authentication
Message-ID: <DACA6095D9B579419ED9012753D8A36380ED75EF06@VPEXCH05.purdue.lcl>

I haven't gotten a response on this and was asked to make sure that my request was received.
Thank you!
Taina

From: Kuntz, Taina M.
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 2:17 PM
To: 'mailman-users at python.org'
Subject: Administrator Authentication

I am the List Administrator for a couple of mailing lists. I am unable to get into the system.
I'm not sure if I typed my password incorrectly too many times or if I've forgotten my password.
Is it possible to get my password reset?

Thanks!
Taina (tkuntz at purdue.edu)

Taina M. Kuntz
Account Assist., Executive Offices
Hovde Hall of Administration, Rm 100
610 Purdue Mall
Purdue University
West Lafayette IN 47907-2040
765-496-3323
fax: 765-496-2031


From Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil  Wed Nov  4 19:08:19 2009
From: Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil (Hicks, Robert CTR)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:08:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The email address you supplied is not valid. (E.g.
	it must contain an `@'.)
Message-ID: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE103E233E1@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>

Hello,

I searched Google but didn't find anything definitive for the error in the subject line. I am trying to subscribe a member and I am using a valid email address.

Bob 


From allen_armstrong at telus.net  Thu Nov  5 07:52:15 2009
From: allen_armstrong at telus.net (Allen Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 22:52:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hiding the To:
Message-ID: <00e401ca5de4$82cf70c0$3301a8c0@allen2>

Hi,

 

I would normally search the archives but they seem to be broken right now.
Is there a way to hide: to: field went sending to the list?   I want to hide
my email address and my users email addresses.

 

 

Ttyl,

 

 

Allen Armstrong

 


From john at cibolo.com  Fri Nov  6 19:27:29 2009
From: john at cibolo.com (John Griessen)
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 12:27:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recommended howto for using with postfix apache2
	mysql virtual hosts
Message-ID: <4AF46A91.6050203@cibolo.com>

I find some howtos that are close to my situation using debian, but there are differences
from there to the comments in files like:

/etc/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py
/etc/mailman/apache.conf



I'm using versions:

apache2-mpm-worker         2.2.14-1
apache2-utils              2.2.14-1
mailman                    1:2.1.12-3
postfix                    2.5.5-1.1
postfix-mysql              2.5.5-1.1
mysql-client-5.1           5.1.40-1
mysql-server-5.1           5.1.40-1

Any recommendations for installation on debian?

thanks,

John Griessen

From john at cibolo.com  Sat Nov  7 21:24:34 2009
From: john at cibolo.com (John Griessen)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:24:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recommended howto for using with postfix apache2
	mysql virtual hosts
Message-ID: <4AF5D782.9040906@cibolo.com>

I find some howtos that are close to my situation using debian, but there are differences
from there to the comments in files like:

/etc/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py
/etc/mailman/apache.conf



I'm using versions:

apache2-mpm-worker         2.2.14-1
apache2-utils              2.2.14-1
mailman                    1:2.1.12-3
postfix                    2.5.5-1.1
postfix-mysql              2.5.5-1.1
mysql-client-5.1           5.1.40-1
mysql-server-5.1           5.1.40-1

Any recommendations for installation on debian?

thanks,

John Griessen


From pyz at brama.com  Mon Nov  9 02:09:20 2009
From: pyz at brama.com (Max Pyziur)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 20:09:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using robots.txt
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0911082005170.2154@brama.com>



Greetings

Mailman's email lists are visible search engine spiders from 
http://www.somedomain.com/pipermail/emaillistname/etc

However, /pipermail is an alias of /var/mailman/archives/public/

per mailman.conf

I've tried placing a basic robots.txt file at 
/var/mailman/archives/public/ and set permissions to 644. However, my 
lists still get spidered.

Any suggestions on where to place the robots.txt file to prevent 
spidering?

Thanks!

Max Pyziur
pyz at brama.com

From tgplatt at webwitchcraft.com  Sun Nov  8 21:39:59 2009
From: tgplatt at webwitchcraft.com (TG Platt - WW Publ)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 13:39:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving my Mailman list
Message-ID: <D3253700873D42578DCCD71E1BB4B3B3@gregsrocket>

Hi. I need helpful advice unraveling the deeply mysterious Gordian knot of
mailman conversions. Here's my situation...

I'm looking for a temporary hosting arrangement for an existing mailman
list. The list is presently running on my own dedicated server but the
server was recently cracked by a rootkit and must now be rebuilt. So I need
to move and rehost my mailman list elsewhere for a month or two while I do
the server rebuild. Then I intend to move it back again. 

This discussion list has been using mailman for years. In fact, I moved it
to my server just over a year ago from another mailman host (DreamHost as I
recall). So we have a significant legacy message archive and mailing list I
want to backup and move to the new host. Then I will need to move it back
again later. I control the current server. So, I've got no problem backing
up the existing list and archive from my current server but I'm not sure
what capabilities I MUST HAVE to be able to install it on the new one and
then to recapture the list later and bring it back to my own server.

Of course there's a web site associated with the same domain name the
mailman list now resides on. The list is presently configured using the
site's domain name (myname at myname.org). Needless to say, I'd like both the
server move and the eventual move back again to be transparent to our users
and visitors if possible. In short I prefer to keep the same site name and
list name when I move it and when I move it back later. So I'm planning to
move both the site and the list to a new temporary host at the same time.

Obviously I'd rather NOT pay for a full year of temporary hosting when I
figure I'll be able to have my rebuilt server up and running again within 60
days. So I'm basically looking for a host where I can rent space by the
month at a reasonable price. 

I tried moving to one mailman host (bluehost) but got very ticked when their
advertised price of $4 a month turned out to be $6 a month and they were
charging me for a full year of hosting up front too. The problem wasn't so
much the price as it was that they never gave me any contract term
options... AND they never TOLD me until they'd actually charged my credit
card for a full year that I wasn't going to get the price they offered.
Needless to say, that "bait and switch" pricing approach made me hopping
mad. So I told them to take a hike and canceled the hosting deal. 

I then contacted another host who was up front about their short-term
pricing and found I liked them a lot in other ways too. But having been
burned once already, I'm being very cautious the second time around. So,
when their tech told me I would not get access to any of the mailman command
line utilities, I began to wonder if I'm really going to be able to migrate
my mailman list to their server now and then migrate it out again later
WITHOUT access to mailman's command line utilities. After checking out the
docs pretty carefully, I have a strong hunch the answer to THAT question is
an emphatic "No"!

As I recall, when I first installed mailman on my server, I was faced with
deciding whether to use the server's main domain name (mydomain.com) as the
name that hosted all mailman lists on the server or I could have used the
client's domain name as the domain name that hosted their list and all
others. As I recall the two options were mutually exclusive. In other words,
mailman wouldn't let me have two individual lists on the same server
associated with different primary domain names (e.g. mymembers at mydomain.com
and yourmembers at yourdomain.com). As I recall, this simply wasn't possible on
a single server. Since my client didn't want to change the name and address
of their list, I agreed to use their domain name as the hosting domain name
and I have regretted that decision ever since. I've also realized since then
that other mailman hosts seem to have figured out workarounds for that rule.
I'm sure DreamHost for example didn't force my client to use another domain
as the list domain or their list could never have been mydomain at mydomain.org
to begin with! 

So, here are my questions:

1. Can someone tell me if my hunch about not being able to move to a new
server and back without access to the mailman command line utils is right?

2. Is it possible to do the entire move from my server and back with nothing
more than a tar-ed backup and the web interface? (I think it's not.)

3. If I MUST have access to the command line utils, what commands do I need
aside from checkperms and possibly addmember?

4. Did I overlook something? Is there some way to set up mailman during my
server rebuild so that multiple domains can be supported under a single
instance of mailman WITHOUT forcing all lists to use the same hosting domain
name?

5. Are thee any other gotchas with my plan that I've overlooked?

Thanks!


From brodak at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 07:22:56 2009
From: brodak at gmail.com (Brandon Rodak)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 23:22:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PLESK configuration question - Mailman default
	domain
Message-ID: <570244400911082222m5b69c195t378700b9d4ad1c55@mail.gmail.com>

I would like to use the subdomain of "reports" rather than the PLESK default
"lists" subdomain.  I have tried to edit "/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py" and also
whenever I add a new mailing list under my domain it is automatically given
the "lists.domain.com" format.

In other words, is there a force the Plesk/Mailman not to use http://lists.<
domain.com>/mailman/ but use http://reports.<domain.com>/mailman/ for the
Mailman interfaces?  Is there a default template Plesk uses when a new
mailing list (Mailman) is created which I can modify for the desired result?

Thanks for any and all responses.

From ganeadaniel1979 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 10:20:10 2009
From: ganeadaniel1979 at gmail.com (Daniel Ganea)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:20:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] track mail send to a mailing list
Message-ID: <203a064a0911090120h5b0bdf9fsae779bbab377c8f5@mail.gmail.com>

I have a user that complains that he did not receive the mails, how can i
check that?
Is there a log for that? i've seen only this su logs that the message was
sent to the list members:
Nov 06 17:07:54 2009 (6726) post to infolist from infolist at xxxx.xxx,
size=120216, message-id=<p3_20091106170750_4af449d66920d>, success
but to track that an mail was send to his email address?
I got the confrmation that he is is a part of the list: from logs:
Jul 17 15:30:27 2009 (10993) infolist: new "xxxxx.xxxx at xxxx.xxx" <>, admin
mass sub
has also the option *Mail delivery set to Enable*

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Nov  9 11:04:08 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:04:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attempting to migrate mailman to a new server.
In-Reply-To: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D704C36E91@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu>
References: <3ebf3e3f0910060933y730559ddt231722728b365cc9@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC192200910210813380765e0b168e3@msapiro>
	<07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D704C36E91@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <20091109100408.GL12411@charite.de>

* Millsap, James  <James.Millsap at chicagobooth.edu>:

> to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman",
> ctladdr=<mailman@###################.###> (8/0), delay=00:00:01,
> xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=30986, dsn=5.3.0, stat=unknown mailer
> error 1
> 
> 
> I have put a link in smrsh for mailman.  I get this in the bounce.

Have you allowed smrsh to use /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Nov  9 11:04:31 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:04:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick question for a newbie
In-Reply-To: <KEELIAAEFNIDIJAKAIEOCEMJGFAA.joer@mrkgroup.com>
References: <KEELIAAEFNIDIJAKAIEOCEMJGFAA.joer@mrkgroup.com>
Message-ID: <20091109100431.GM12411@charite.de>

* Joe Ruffolo <joer at mrkgroup.com>:
> I want my list members to be able to respond back to the original poster. So
> when they hit reply the actually reply back to the person who posted the
> message. How do I do this?

That's the default.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Nov  9 11:05:41 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:05:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing Mailman
In-Reply-To: <F585CF64B67543EA8E08F842F5E53285@Zimmer.local>
References: <F585CF64B67543EA8E08F842F5E53285@Zimmer.local>
Message-ID: <20091109100540.GN12411@charite.de>

* Kim Huff <kimhuff at huffamily.com>:
> Hello everyone,
> 
>  
> 
> My name is Kim Huff and I am new to the list.  I have been using Mailman for
> some time now but I know that I have barely tapped its full potential.  I
> have my own dedicated server and on there I have a few of my clients using
> the Mailman service.  Most of them would like to offer a way for their
> possibly subscribers the ability to sign-up on line.  We want to be very
> careful about this because we want to make sure people that do not belong to
> the organization can sign up.  So, we would want anyone that signs up to go
> into a queue and wait to be approved.  If there person truly is a part of
> the group, we will have people that have those records and they can approve
> or deny a request.  The problem is. what URL does one use for to subscribe?
> Is there a way for me to customize this page?  Most of my clients use Joomla
> so I would need to make sure the subscription page can work within a Joomla
> page.

Privacy options...

    * [Subscription rules] 
    What steps are required for subscription?
    -> Require approval OR
    -> Confirm and approve

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Nov  9 11:07:03 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:07:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP47446D2BE839BDB4E5BAF4DDBD0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP47446D2BE839BDB4E5BAF4DDBD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20091109100703.GO12411@charite.de>

* Emily IVA Samson Tepe <estepe at hotmail.com>:
> Hi All!
> 
> I need to put an easy "unsubscribe" link at the bottom of the
> newsletter that goes to my mailing list.
> 
> Where should I link it to? An email address, or to a web page?
> 
> Thanks,
> Siren E
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ralf.hildebrandt%40charite.de

  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  See?
  
-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Nov  9 11:08:57 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:08:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please can you help me investigate an issue
 with two of our e mail lists.
In-Reply-To: <4AE6DA38.7060205@ucl.ac.uk>
References: <4AE6DA38.7060205@ucl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20091109100857.GP12411@charite.de>

* Ian Peel <uctlis0 at ucl.ac.uk>:
> Please can you help me investigate an issue with two of our e mail lists.
> laws-pgs at ucl.ac.uk
> laws-pgs-research at ucl.ac.uk
> 
> Mail sent to these is not being forwarded. The archive shows that
> these stopped working on October the 8th.
> I have checked various admin setting pages however these have not
> revealed anything to me.

Is the mailman qrunner running on the host that handles the lists?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Nov  9 11:15:05 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:15:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maillist spam issue
In-Reply-To: <2677cd770910292302p2f917eadjdd66f80c765b1be6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2677cd770910292302p2f917eadjdd66f80c765b1be6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091109101505.GR12411@charite.de>

* liuhao <darren.liuhao at gmail.com>:
> Dear Mailman,
> 
> I am currently maintain the maillist for *ecfs.com.au*.
> we are now facing a issue that, some members want to unsubscribe from the
> mail list, and they just reply the mails we sent to them, meanwhile the
> email they replied went to every members' mail account on the list.
> 
> How could we stop this?

Activate moderation, then LART the idiots.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Nov  9 11:26:41 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:26:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get off a list.
In-Reply-To: <019201ca5b4d$b71fbb80$255f3280$@com>
References: <019201ca5b4d$b71fbb80$255f3280$@com>
Message-ID: <20091109102641.GU12411@charite.de>

* Allison <acleveland at rac-host.com>:
> Years ago, I was subscribed to an email list.  Since then, the owner lost
> the domain, but each month I still get a user name and password reminder.
> I'd love to unsubscribe, but the domain is no longer registered, therefore
> email and links do not work.  I just want to stop getting the reminders from
> this dead list.  I was unable to find a solution on your website, nor to I
> wish to be a part of a mailing list just to get off of a mailing list.
> Please advise.

Examine the headers of the reminder mail.
They tell you where the mail comes from

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Nov  9 11:31:55 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:31:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 69, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <20091102111016.10054.qmail@188081-web1.secure-display.com>
References: <20091102111016.10054.qmail@188081-web1.secure-display.com>
Message-ID: <20091109103155.GW12411@charite.de>

* molly-burns at pacd.org <molly-burns at pacd.org>:
> I am currently out of the office. If you require immediate assistance, please contact the PACD office at (717) 238-7223.

Unsubscribed.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Nov  9 11:32:19 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:32:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrator Authentication
In-Reply-To: <DACA6095D9B579419ED9012753D8A36380EC4544B0@VPEXCH05.purdue.lcl>
References: <DACA6095D9B579419ED9012753D8A36380EC4544B0@VPEXCH05.purdue.lcl>
Message-ID: <20091109103219.GX12411@charite.de>

* Kuntz, Taina M. <tkuntz1 at purdue.edu>:
> I am the List Administrator for a couple of mailing lists. I am unable to get into the system.
> I'm not sure if I typed my password incorrectly too many times or if I've forgotten my password.
> Is it possible to get my password reset?

Did you ask you local admin?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Nov  9 11:32:57 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:32:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Mailman
In-Reply-To: <33d578cd0911030240s2d5cc0a0i1cea73b603a18fde@mail.gmail.com>
References: <33d578cd0911030240s2d5cc0a0i1cea73b603a18fde@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091109103257.GY12411@charite.de>

* Pavlo Lyovkin <plyovkin at irex.ua>:
> Hello!
> I am an IT-assistant and got the task to find some software to make possible
> the migration of our mailing lists from MailMan on freeBSD to Microsoft
> operating system. Do you know such software?

??? Simply export the list members and reimport them.
-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Nov  9 11:35:54 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:35:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The email address you supplied is not valid.
 (E.g. it must contain an `@'.)
In-Reply-To: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE103E233E1@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
References: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE103E233E1@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <20091109103554.GC12411@charite.de>

* Hicks, Robert CTR <Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil>:
> Hello,
> 
> I searched Google but didn't find anything definitive for the error in
> the subject line. I am trying to subscribe a member and I am using a
> valid email address.

Please show the email address.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From James.Kemp at ips.gsi.gov.uk  Mon Nov  9 11:38:43 2009
From: James.Kemp at ips.gsi.gov.uk (Kemp James)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:38:43 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] i need help for linux ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <1257263035.8405.47.camel@lady-desktop>
References: <1257263035.8405.47.camel@lady-desktop>
Message-ID: <ECC41EE8F8763E48BAE34DC9F6C4D4FDD8E9B1@belexh001.ukps.ho>

From: mailman-users at python.org On Behalf Of lady  Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 3:44 PM
> 
> Saluti a tutti gli utenti ? la 1a volta che entro nel 
> Mailman. Ho guardato spesso delle mail per sapere cose varie. 
> 
> Le mie domande: 
> Come sapere differenze per esempio fra Gnome e KDE di Ubuntu 
> nel mio caso. Poi Dovrei sapere di pi? sulle differenze tra 
> Linux Ubuntu e Xubuntu che conosco pochissimo. Grazie di tutto Lady 
> 
> I need help for linux ubuntu 

I'm sorry, I don't speak Italian, although google translate gave me the gist. 

if you need help deciding which flavour of Ubuntu you want then you would be best asking on http://ubuntuforums.org/

If you want to know if it makes a difference to running mailman then I don't believe that the flavour does make any difference. 


-- 
James Kemp
Head of Operational Analysis, Identity and Passport Service
4th Floor, West Wing, Allington Towers, Allington Street, London SW1E
office: 020 3356 8084  mobile: 07970 559948

Register your interest now in the National Identity Service and the National Identity Card at http://www.direct.gov.uk/identity

**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses.

**********************************************************************


The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet virus scanning service supplied by Cable&Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus free.
Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov  9 12:57:29 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:57:29 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Can't post with thunderbird
In-Reply-To: <4AE49A05.6040009@semipol.de>
References: <4AE49A05.6040009@semipol.de>
Message-ID: <87aayv6hcm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Johannes Wienke writes:

 > I got a strange problem with a mailman mailing list hosted at kde.org. 
 > I'm registered at that list and also got access to the admin interface. 
 > The problem is that if I post a message with thunderbird it gets into 
 > the archive but isn't delivered to the subscribers of the list, 
 > including myself.

Is your Thunderbird configuration set up to send HTML only, and the
list set to filter it?



From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov  9 13:01:41 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:01:41 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Using robots.txt
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0911082005170.2154@brama.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0911082005170.2154@brama.com>
Message-ID: <878wef6h5m.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Max Pyziur writes:

 > I've tried placing a basic robots.txt file at 
 > /var/mailman/archives/public/

robots.txt lives at /robots.txt, and nowhere else.

http://www.robotstxt.org/

From Marco.vanKammen at springer.com  Mon Nov  9 11:45:28 2009
From: Marco.vanKammen at springer.com (Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:45:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail delay?
Message-ID: <E0102EFB6FBB574BBF3EA287E822ADCB0BBF2B@SENLDOGO0144.springer-sbm.com>

This mailman list sending mails that where queued for the last 7 days or
is it just me?? 

 

- 

Marco van Kammen
Springer Science+Business Media
System Manager & Postmaster 

- 

van Godewijckstraat 30 | 3311 GX
Office Number: 05E21 
Dordrecht | The Netherlands 

-  

tel 

 +31(78)6576446

fax 

 +31(78)6576302

- 

www.springeronline.com <http://www.springeronline.com>  
www.springer.com <http://www.springer.com/> 

- 

 

 


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Mon Nov  9 13:00:35 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 12:00:35 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail delay?
In-Reply-To: <E0102EFB6FBB574BBF3EA287E822ADCB0BBF2B@SENLDOGO0144.springer-sbm.com>
References: <E0102EFB6FBB574BBF3EA287E822ADCB0BBF2B@SENLDOGO0144.springer-sbm.com>
Message-ID: <20091109120035.GA24624@amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 11:45:28AM +0100, Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL wrote:
> This mailman list sending mails that where queued for the last 7 days or
> is it just me?? 

q.v. <http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg55042.html>
and the posts in that thread.

> System Manager & Postmaster 

I'd have expected postmasters to have looked at headers.

-- 
``There is a providence that protects idiots, drunkards,
  children and the United States of America.'' (Otto von Bismarck)

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov  9 13:09:06 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:09:06 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] E-mail-based moderation
In-Reply-To: <9839a05c0910262154j352a9a12ud5b7939bdb44b9ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9839a05c0910262134w212f98chef565ad98ed8d5a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<9839a05c0910262154j352a9a12ud5b7939bdb44b9ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <877htz6gt9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brian J Mingus writes:

 > I just found an e-mail sent to Mailman-Developers that never received a
 > reply. It is essentially identical to mine. How can I bring this feature to
 > life?

A fully functional MUA allows you to pull out the forwarded message
and respond to it.  Mutt, Gnus, VM, MH-E (and MH itself), Mew, and
Wanderlust all have this capability; I'm sure there are other MUAs
that do.  If GMail doesn't have it, well, that won't be the first
broken-by-design misfeature in GMail that I've run into.


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Mon Nov  9 13:03:32 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 12:03:32 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] i need help for linux ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <ECC41EE8F8763E48BAE34DC9F6C4D4FDD8E9B1@belexh001.ukps.ho>
References: <1257263035.8405.47.camel@lady-desktop>
	<ECC41EE8F8763E48BAE34DC9F6C4D4FDD8E9B1@belexh001.ukps.ho>
Message-ID: <20091109120332.GB24624@amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 10:38:43AM -0000, Kemp James wrote:
> if you need help deciding which flavour of Ubuntu you want then you
> would be best asking on http://ubuntuforums.org/

I'd question Ubuntu's suitability for running as a public-facing server, 
before doing that.

('cutting edge' releases against exploits and uptime.)

-- 
One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often
a good thing to do -- and always a clever thing to say
(Will Durant)

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov  9 13:13:07 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:13:07 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PLESK configuration question - Mailman
	default	domain
In-Reply-To: <570244400911082222m5b69c195t378700b9d4ad1c55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <570244400911082222m5b69c195t378700b9d4ad1c55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87639j6gmk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brandon Rodak writes:

 > I would like to use the subdomain of "reports" rather than the
 > PLESK

We don't do PLESK, and we know that PLESK alters Mailman, but their
patches have not been published AFAIK.  If you are a PLESK user, you
have the right to get and publish copies of those patches under the
GPL.  If you do, somebody might be willing to look at them, and see if
there's a way around this issue.  But I don't know that it will be any
time soon; all the developers are very busy at the moment.



From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Mon Nov  9 14:07:23 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:07:23 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our mailman queue laws-ugs@ucl.ac.uk has
	stopped working, can you help us?
In-Reply-To: <4AE99ACE.3040105@ucl.ac.uk>
References: <4AE99ACE.3040105@ucl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20091109130723.GC24624@amyl.org.uk>

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 01:38:22PM +0000, Ian Peel wrote:
> Our mailman queue laws-ugs at ucl.ac.uk has stopped working, can you help us?

What's in the logfiles?

(Mailman, MTA, and possibly syslog/daemons)

ps(1) output for python?

-- 
``Foot-and-mouth believed to be first virus
  unable to spread through Microsoft Outlook'' (spoof headline)

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Mon Nov  9 14:16:09 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:16:09 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on hostnames....
In-Reply-To: <00fe01ca5697$56d572c0$04805840$@com>
References: <00fe01ca5697$56d572c0$04805840$@com>
Message-ID: <20091109131608.GE24624@amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 06:52:11PM -0500, Chris Thompson wrote:
> Hey everyone!  New user of mailman here and having a little trouble figuring
> out how to change the hostname that Mailman pulls for the urls and other
> stuff.  For example, in emails from the list it references the hostname in
> the url like this:
> 
> http://server1.example.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/testlist2  (those are
> not the real names of my server and domain.  Just edited for security
> reasons.
> 
> I'd like to change it to where it only reads this:
> 
> http://example.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/testlist2
> 
> Any suggestions?  I've combed around and tried numerous things but nothing
> works.

mm_cfg.py, then run fix_urls : it's in the FAQ for the details.

TBH, I'd drop the 'cgi-bin' path-element, too.

-- 
``What the bloody hell is the point of 24-hour rolling news
  if it doesn't carry terrifying-lizard-related news?''
  (Anthony Wells, on learning from the web that `a giant
  lizard is terrorising Beirut')

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Nov  9 14:35:03 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:35:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail delay?
In-Reply-To: <E0102EFB6FBB574BBF3EA287E822ADCB0BBF2B@SENLDOGO0144.springer-sbm.com>
References: <E0102EFB6FBB574BBF3EA287E822ADCB0BBF2B@SENLDOGO0144.springer-sbm.com>
Message-ID: <20091109133502.GE32319@charite.de>

* Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL <Marco.vanKammen at springer.com>:
> This mailman list sending mails that where queued for the last 7 days or
> is it just me?? 

Yes, of course. That was moderated stuff.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From krishnadas at marfic.com  Mon Nov  9 14:49:06 2009
From: krishnadas at marfic.com (Krishnadas Kossery)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 05:49:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable To Create Mailman Lists
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0910210617j7b260edy47af8f5c42b38b42@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d80f793f0910210617j7b260edy47af8f5c42b38b42@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E09628ED31EE84BB396C0B0E9EB250D68E801819D@mail.marfic.com>


Regarding point 2. 

Open the Command line interface,

Cd $prefix/mailman
bin/mmsitepass <new passwd>

Now try again to create new mailing lists with this passwd. 
 



-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+krishnadas=marfic.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+krishnadas=marfic.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Williams
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:18 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable To Create Mailman Lists

I just installed Mailman 2.1.9-4 on my Linux mail server and
configured it according to the online guide straight from the Mailman
site. It appears to be working fine and I get hit the main page via
Apache and see the only pubic list available called 'Mailman'. Now I
selected the 'Admin Overview Page' and it takes me straight to the
'Admin' page with out any credentials for password or anything. Is
this normal Mailman behavior? Should anyone be able to simply hit my
Mailman public page and walk right into the 'Admin' page with put any
credentials?

Secondly - since I am in the 'Admin' page, I then attempt to select
the link that says "create a new mailing list" which takes me to a new
page for adding all the criteria for the new list I would like to
generate. At the very bottom, it has a blank field box for "List
creator's (authentication) password:" and I simply have no idea what
that is. If I leave it blank or type in the password for the only
Mailman list I have called "Mailman", I get an error when creating the
new list that says: "Error: You are not authorized to create new
mailing lists"

Can someone please tell me what I did wrong?

Thanks so much!

-Carlos
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/krishnadas%40marfic.com

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon Nov  9 15:15:19 2009
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:15:19 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick question for a newbie
In-Reply-To: <20091109100431.GM12411@charite.de>
References: <KEELIAAEFNIDIJAKAIEOCEMJGFAA.joer@mrkgroup.com>
	<20091109100431.GM12411@charite.de>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911091613080.2693@data.home>

On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

> * Joe Ruffolo <joer at mrkgroup.com>:
>> I want my list members to be able to respond back to the original poster. So
>> when they hit reply the actually reply back to the person who posted the
>> message. How do I do this?
>
> That's the default.

Reply to Sender is the default, yes.  However, the original poster is 
seeing their MUA wanting to reply to foo-bounces rather than the actual 
poster, which I would have thought would be an issue with the MUA 
concerned (unless I'm missing something).

Geoff.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov  9 15:39:22 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:39:22 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't post with thunderbird
In-Reply-To: <4AF802FC.1000303@semipol.de>
References: <4AE49A05.6040009@semipol.de>
	<87aayv6hcm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<4AF802FC.1000303@semipol.de>
Message-ID: <87ws1z4vad.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Johannes Wienke writes:

 > Sorry, the problem is already worked around ;) .

No problem (except for the damned spammers who make it a reasonable
choice to moderate lists like this one!)  On behalf of the moderators,
I'm sorry your post was delayed.  I'm sure we're all glad your issue
got localized/worked around.


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon Nov  9 15:44:37 2009
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:44:37 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving my Mailman list
In-Reply-To: <D3253700873D42578DCCD71E1BB4B3B3@gregsrocket>
References: <D3253700873D42578DCCD71E1BB4B3B3@gregsrocket>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911091616350.2693@data.home>

On Sun, 8 Nov 2009, TG Platt - WW Publ wrote:

> 1. Can someone tell me if my hunch about not being able to move to a new
> server and back without access to the mailman command line utils is right?

hmm.  I had to do this recently, and as long as the hostname and Email 
domain is the same, I think you might be able to do this.  But I wouldn't 
sware to it.  At any rate, there's a FAQ entry about this in the FAQ on 
the Wiki.

> 4. Did I overlook something? Is there some way to set up mailman during my
> server rebuild so that multiple domains can be supported under a single
> instance of mailman WITHOUT forcing all lists to use the same hosting domain
> name?

You can do this as long as you avoid having lists with the same name.  So 
you can have foo at foo.com and bar at bar.com but not bar at foo.com *as well* as 
bar at bar.com.

If you want to avoid name collisions, you pretty much have to use separate 
installs per domain, and also you need to do some playing around to make 
sure that the mail is delivered to the right domain.  See the thread at 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-October/067364.html 
for what I ended up doing in order to achieve this.

Geoff.


From b19141 at anl.gov  Mon Nov  9 16:14:17 2009
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon,  9 Nov 2009 09:14:17 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] i need help for linux ubuntu
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Adam McGreggor <adam-mailman@amyl.org.uk>'
	dated: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 12:03:32 +0000
Message-ID: <20091109151417.905A216F51@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 10:38:43AM -0000, Kemp James wrote:
>> if you need help deciding which flavour of Ubuntu you want then you
>> would be best asking on http://ubuntuforums.org/


and Adam McGreggor <adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk> replied:
>I'd question Ubuntu's suitability for running as a public-facing server, 
>before doing that.
>
>('cutting edge' releases against exploits and uptime.)


I do not understand that reply.  I am running a Mailman server on
Ubuntu, and I have no problems.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 240, Room 5.B.8             Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From kremels at kreme.com  Mon Nov  9 17:21:07 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 09:21:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get off a list.
In-Reply-To: <019201ca5b4d$b71fbb80$255f3280$@com>
References: <019201ca5b4d$b71fbb80$255f3280$@com>
Message-ID: <3357DA31-58B1-4EAB-A387-18CF8B01DC1F@kreme.com>

On 1-Nov-2009, at 16:47, Allison wrote:
> Below is the email I get, minus the password.
>
>
> This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your themagickdragon.net
> mailing list memberships.  It includes your subscription info and  
> how to use
> it to change it or unsubscribe from a list.

Since the domain doesn't exist, you will need to look at the headers  
to see what machine is actually sending out the emails. Then you will  
need to contact their postmaster or admin contact (or possibly  
actually make a phone call) to get this taken care of.

There's nothing anyone on this list can do.

However, by googling, I did find the following information:

The Magick Dragon
365 Thames St., Newport, RI
401-843-8558 rose143 at cox.net
www.themagickdragon.net

So, you might try calling the store directly or emailing rose143.


-- 
Once again I teeter at the precipice of the generation gap.


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon Nov  9 17:34:01 2009
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:34:01 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recommended howto for using with postfix
 apache2 mysql virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <4AF46A91.6050203@cibolo.com>
References: <4AF46A91.6050203@cibolo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911091818580.2693@data.home>

On Fri, 6 Nov 2009, John Griessen wrote:

> I find some howtos that are close to my situation using debian, but there are 
> differences
> from there to the comments in files like:
>
> /etc/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py
> /etc/mailman/apache.conf

I've set this up on 3 systems using Mailman/Apache2/Postfix, and I don't 
use postfix-to-mailman.py at all.  I simply use postfix-style virtual 
domains on mm_cfg.

As for Apache, I just made a symlink from /etc/mailman/apache.conf to 
/etc/apache2/conf.d/mailman and edited it to my liking.

> I'm using versions:
>
> apache2-mpm-worker         2.2.14-1
> apache2-utils              2.2.14-1
> mailman                    1:2.1.12-3
> postfix                    2.5.5-1.1
> postfix-mysql              2.5.5-1.1
> mysql-client-5.1           5.1.40-1
> mysql-server-5.1           5.1.40-1

You won't need to use any of the Mysql stuff, just point Postfix to the 
aliases and virtual Mailman files produced by Mailman.  These should be in 
/var/lib/mailman/data.  These can be alongside your SQL definitions like 
so:

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,
         hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases


virtual_alias_maps =
    proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/sql/pgsql_virtual_alias_maps.cf,
    proxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/sql/pgsql_virtual_alias_domain_maps.cf,

roxy:pgsql:/etc/postfix/sql/pgsql_virtual_alias_domain_catchall_maps.cf
    hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman


> Any recommendations for installation on debian?

I found the Postfix section of the installation manual to be pretty 
helpful. http://list.org/./mailman-install/node12.html

I also discovered, when I had to do a from-source installation, that I'd 
left out a few steps by only reading this chapter, so a complete walk 
through the manual is probably a good idea.

Feel free to ask if you have any further questions.

Geoff.


From kremels at kreme.com  Mon Nov  9 17:35:24 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 09:35:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] E-mail-based moderation
In-Reply-To: <877htz6gt9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <9839a05c0910262134w212f98chef565ad98ed8d5a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<9839a05c0910262154j352a9a12ud5b7939bdb44b9ef@mail.gmail.com>
	<877htz6gt9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <5913A709-0A92-4BA5-800F-5F2B5BA9953A@kreme.com>

On 9-Nov-2009, at 05:09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Brian J Mingus writes:
>
>> I just found an e-mail sent to Mailman-Developers that never  
>> received a
>> reply. It is essentially identical to mine. How can I bring this  
>> feature to
>> life?
>
> A fully functional MUA allows you to pull out the forwarded message
> and respond to it.  Mutt, Gnus, VM, MH-E (and MH itself), Mew, and
> Wanderlust all have this capability; I'm sure there are other MUAs
> that do.  If GMail doesn't have it, well, that won't be the first
> broken-by-design misfeature in GMail that I've run into.

I think gmail DOES do this if you open the attachment. I can't seem to  
find an example to test it on?

Ah, oK, no, not exactly. It only allows you to see the full message,  
but not to open it as a message.

Guess you might have to use some other mail client for this (I know OS  
X's Mail.app works just fine with this, click the attachment, reply.  
Done and done. I bet ThunderBird does as well.)


-- 
"There will always be women in rubber flirting with me."


From john at cibolo.com  Mon Nov  9 17:29:35 2009
From: john at cibolo.com (John Griessen)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:29:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-postfix-mysql virtual bounces with unknown
	user: "sandbox-request"
Message-ID: <4AF8436F.7040403@cibolo.com>

sandbox-request is one of the mailman generated addressed for list sandbox at lists.cibolo.us

I'm using debian with

postfix                    2.5.5-1.1
mailman                    1:2.1.12-3
mysql-server               5.1.40-1
mysql-client-5.1           5.1.40-1
apache2-mpm-worker         2.2.14-1
apache2                    2.2.14-1

I've gotten the install to work up to the point of a new list member's conf email bouncing:
-----
The mail system

<sandbox-request at mail.cibolo.us> (expanded from
     <sandbox-request at lists.cibolo.us>): unknown user: "sandbox-request"

Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.cibolo.us
-----

Permission check showed no trouble.

I think it is a postfix config problem where I've added too much information.
If you can spot trouble in either of these config files, I'd appreciate it.

postfix main.cf
===========
# See /usr/share/postfix/main.cf.dist for a commented, more complete version
#hostname of the server without any subdomain parts.
mydomain = cibolo.us
#Try out this process_limit to reduce memory used on server
default_process_limit = 40
minimal_backoff_time = 2500

#number of SMTP sends to the same place at once
#SMTP process limit server wide is set at 9 in master.cf
default_destination_concurrency_limit = 4

smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Debian/GNU)
biff = no

# DOS limiting by error behavior
smtpd_error_sleep_time = 2
smtpd_soft_error_limit = 3
smtpd_hard_error_limit = 8
# appending .domain is the MUA's job.
append_dot_mydomain = no

# Uncomment the next line to generate "delayed mail" warnings
delay_warning_time = 20m

# jg's restrictions
smtpd_helo_required = yes
smtpd_client_restrictions =
smtpd_helo_restrictions =
smtpd_sender_restrictions =

smtpd_recipient_restrictions =
     permit_mynetworks,
     permit_sasl_authenticated,
     reject_unauth_destination,
     reject_invalid_hostname,
     reject_unauth_pipelining,
     reject_non_fqdn_sender,
     reject_unknown_sender_domain,
     reject_non_fqdn_recipient,
     reject_unknown_recipient_domain,
     check_client_access cdb:/etc/postfix/access_client_ipaddr_checks,
     check_helo_access cdb:/etc/postfix/access_helo_checks,
     check_sender_access cdb:/etc/postfix/access_sender_checks,
#    check_recipient_access hash:/etc/postfix/access_recipient_checks,
     reject_rbl_client bl.spamcop.net,
     reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org
     permit

myhostname = mail.cibolo.us
alias_maps = cdb:/etc/aliases
alias_database = cdb:/etc/aliases
myorigin = /etc/mailname
mydestination = localhost mail.cibolo.us localhost.cibolo.us
mynetworks = 76.191.252.85 127.0.0.0/8
relayhost =
mailbox_size_limit = 80000000
recipient_delimiter = +
notify_classes = resource, software
#virtual mailbox method
virtual_mailbox_base = /var/mail/vhosts
virtual_minimum_uid = 1999
virtual_uid_maps = cdb:/etc/postfix/virtual_uid
virtual_gid_maps = cdb:/etc/postfix/virtual_gid

virtual_mailbox_limit = 51200000

#virtual alias method
#virtual_mailbox_domains = polymerlogic.com industromatic.com
virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_domains_maps.cf
#virtual_alias_maps = cdb:/etc/postfix/virtual
virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf,
    hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
#virtual_mailbox_maps = cdb:/etc/postfix/vmailbox
virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf
virtual_transport = virtual
# Additional for quota support
#virtual_create_maildirsize = yes
#virtual_mailbox_extended = yes
#virtual_mailbox_limit_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_limit_maps.cf
#virtual_mailbox_limit_override = yes
#virtual_maildir_limit_message = Sorry, the user's maildir has overdrawn his diskspace quota, please try again later.
#virtual_overquota_bounce = yes

#If you want to use MySQL also to store your Backup MX domains add this
#relay_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_relay_domains_maps.cf

#mailman setup related:
relay_domains =  lists.metalartists.org lists.cibolo.us
#relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1

=========

mm_cfg.py
=========
# -*- python -*-

# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA
# 02110-1301 USA


"""This is the module which takes your site-specific settings.

 From a raw distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py.  If you
already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings
you want.  The complete set of distributed defaults, with annotation,
are in ./Defaults.  In mm_cfg, override only those you want to
change, after the

   from Defaults import *

line (see below).

Note that these are just default settings - many can be overridden via the
admin and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis.

Note also that some of the settings are resolved against the active list
setting by using the value as a format string against the
list-instance-object's dictionary - see the distributed value of
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER for an example."""


#######################################################
#    Here's where we get the distributed defaults.    #

from Defaults import *

##############################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . #
# See Defaults.py for explanations of the values.            #

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The name of the list Mailman uses to send password reminders
# and similar. Don't change if you want mailman-owner to be
# a valid local part.
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# If you change these, you have to configure your http server
# accordingly (Alias and ScriptAlias directives in most httpds)
#DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'
IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'cibolo.us'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default host for web interface of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'lists.cibolo.us'
# Clear the Defaults.py VIRTUAL_HOSTS entry
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
#  Add the defaults
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
# and the other(s)
add_virtualhost('lists.metalartists.org','metalartists.org')
# Update virtual-mailman for lists in all domains
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.cibolo.us','lists.metalartists.org']

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The default language for this server.
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Iirc this was used in pre 2.1, leave it for now
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Unset send_reminders on newly created lists
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
# automatically recognizes newly created lists.
# (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian or
# /usr/share/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py)
# MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains (but not
# postfix-to-mailman.py), but be sure to see
# /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Debian first.
# MTA='Postfix'

#mailman related:
# So that mailman generates the recipients table
MTA = 'Postfix'
# alias for postmaster, abuse and mailer-daemon
DEB_LISTMASTER = 'postmaster at cibolo.com'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you want to filter mail with SpamAssassin. For
# more information please visit this website:
# http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/
# GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg, but you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.

From kremels at kreme.com  Mon Nov  9 17:43:58 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 09:43:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe request
In-Reply-To: <bfb.69a31be6.381f94b0@aol.com>
References: <bfb.69a31be6.381f94b0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7CA30760-4E7E-4C71-9693-4ABA9C4E7B5B@kreme.com>

On 1-Nov-2009, at 18:49, UpscaleWelding at aol.com wrote:
> Please unsubscribe me from your list.

Please unsubscribe yourself by reading ANY MESSAGE SENT TO THE LIST.

(hint, look for the word "Unsubscribe" included in every single message)


-- 
You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!


From kremels at kreme.com  Mon Nov  9 17:58:20 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 09:58:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using robots.txt
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0911082005170.2154@brama.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0911082005170.2154@brama.com>
Message-ID: <541439A1-47DA-4396-81FA-B6B6A2CAD832@kreme.com>

On 8-Nov-2009, at 18:09, Max Pyziur wrote:
> I've tried placing a basic robots.txt file at /var/mailman/archives/ 
> public/


Have you read ANY documentation on robots.txt?

<http://www.robotstxt.org/robotstxt.html>

Notice the FIRST LINE:

About /robots.txt

and notice the third line:

Web site owners use the /robots.txt file to give instructions about  
their site to web robots; this is called The Robots Exclusion Protocol.

Do you see that leading /?

robots.txt must always be placed in the root folder for the site. that  
is the only place that it has any meaning or effect.

-- 
I WILL NOT YELL "SHE'S DEAD" DURING ROLL CALL
	Bart chalkboard Ep. 9F11


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon Nov  9 18:19:21 2009
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:19:21 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hiding the To:
In-Reply-To: <00e401ca5de4$82cf70c0$3301a8c0@allen2>
References: <00e401ca5de4$82cf70c0$3301a8c0@allen2>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911091918060.2693@data.home>

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009, Allen Armstrong wrote:

> Is there a way to hide: to: field went sending to the list?   I want to hide
> my email address and my users email addresses.


Is it the To field or the From field you want to hide?  It sounds to me 
like you want to hide the From field (i.e. the sender of each message).
You can set the list up to allow anonymous posting.

Geoff.


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon Nov  9 18:24:49 2009
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:24:49 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrator Authentication
In-Reply-To: <DACA6095D9B579419ED9012753D8A36380EC4544B0@VPEXCH05.purdue.lcl>
References: <DACA6095D9B579419ED9012753D8A36380EC4544B0@VPEXCH05.purdue.lcl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911091920530.2693@data.home>

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009, Kuntz, Taina M. wrote:

> I am the List Administrator for a couple of mailing lists. I am unable to get into the system.
> I'm not sure if I typed my password incorrectly too many times or if I've forgotten my password.
> Is it possible to get my password reset?

Yes.  Contact the system administrator who is responsible for the system 
where the list software runs and get them to reset the owner passwords on 
the lists you administer.  Get them to run the bin/change_pw script in 
order to change the password.

Geoff.


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon Nov  9 18:28:38 2009
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:28:38 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get off a list.
In-Reply-To: <019201ca5b4d$b71fbb80$255f3280$@com>
References: <019201ca5b4d$b71fbb80$255f3280$@com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911091926380.2693@data.home>

On Sun, 1 Nov 2009, Allison wrote:

> Years ago, I was subscribed to an email list.  Since then, the owner lost
> the domain, but each month I still get a user name and password reminder.
> I'd love to unsubscribe, but the domain is no longer registered, therefore
> email and links do not work.  I just want to stop getting the reminders from
> this dead list.

You'll need to get the person running the system where the list was set up 
to remove you.  Better still, get them to delete the entire list.  Chances 
are that you might not be the only one in this position.

If you don't know where the mail is coming from, the full headers of one 
of these reminder messages can help.

Geoff.


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon Nov  9 18:35:04 2009
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:35:04 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to allow messages from
 non-members to go to a list without any moderation?
In-Reply-To: <C707A83B.3D0A7%deb@reachfoundation.org>
References: <C707A83B.3D0A7%deb@reachfoundation.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911091930040.2693@data.home>

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009, Deb Seidman wrote:

> Hostgator uses mailman to provide mailing list features. So I used it to set
> up several lists and started playing with them. The problem is that I really
> am looking for the lists to work as a multiple destination alias (which
> hostgator doesn?t appear to support) rather than a real list.

The way to do this is to go into Privacy/Sender Filters and set it so that 
the default non-member action is Accept.

However, depending on your preferences, this may not be all you will want 
to do with this.

In order to let through absolutely everything, you'll also want to set the 
maximum message size to 0, set it to not care how many recipients there 
are to a message, and set it not to care whether or not the list name is 
in the To or Cc fields of the message.  The first of these is in the 
general options (I think), and the others are in the recipient filters in 
the privacy section.

I've had to set up such a list myself recently and ran into a few of these 
gotchas.  I think that perhaps I also had to set something else but I 
forget now what it might have been.

Geoff.

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon Nov  9 18:38:32 2009
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:38:32 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable To Create Mailman Lists
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0910210617j7b260edy47af8f5c42b38b42@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d80f793f0910210617j7b260edy47af8f5c42b38b42@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911091936200.2693@data.home>

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, Carlos Williams wrote:

> I just installed Mailman 2.1.9-4 on my Linux mail server and
> configured it according to the online guide straight from the Mailman
> site. It appears to be working fine and I get hit the main page via
> Apache and see the only pubic list available called 'Mailman'. Now I
> selected the 'Admin Overview Page' and it takes me straight to the
> 'Admin' page with out any credentials for password or anything. Is
> this normal Mailman behavior? Should anyone be able to simply hit my
> Mailman public page and walk right into the 'Admin' page with put any
> credentials?

Yes.  You can't do anything there without a password of some sort, but hte 
password required will depend on which list you want to edit.

> Secondly - since I am in the 'Admin' page, I then attempt to select
> the link that says "create a new mailing list" which takes me to a new
> page for adding all the criteria for the new list I would like to
> generate. At the very bottom, it has a blank field box for "List
> creator's (authentication) password:" and I simply have no idea what
> that is. If I leave it blank or type in the password for the only
> Mailman list I have called "Mailman", I get an error when creating the
> new list that says: "Error: You are not authorized to create new
> mailing lists"

You need to create a site password. 
http://list.org/./mailman-install/node6.html

Geoff.


From john at cibolo.com  Mon Nov  9 19:06:09 2009
From: john at cibolo.com (John Griessen)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:06:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to alias the listinfo page to lists.site.com?
Message-ID: <4AF85A11.1070104@cibolo.com>

I have a working installation with listinfo at

http://lists.metalartists.org/mailman/listinfo/

I'd like to see that page when I web browse to http://lists.metalartists.org

Is that easy?

John

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon Nov  9 19:40:15 2009
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 20:40:15 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to alias the listinfo page to
 lists.site.com?
In-Reply-To: <4AF85A11.1070104@cibolo.com>
References: <4AF85A11.1070104@cibolo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911092029350.2693@data.home>

On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, John Griessen wrote:

> I have a working installation with listinfo at
>
> http://lists.metalartists.org/mailman/listinfo/
>
> I'd like to see that page when I web browse to http://lists.metalartists.org
>
> Is that easy?

Depends what you want to do.  If you only want this domain to redirect to 
the above URL and you don't care where the rest points, you can simply do 
a redirect by setting up lists.metalartists.org as a virtual host and 
putting in an alias for /

If you want all of Mailman to appear under this host, you will probably 
want to also use these aliases:

Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
Alias /images/mailman/ /usr/share/images/mailman/
ScriptAlias /admin /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admin
ScriptAlias /admindb /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb
ScriptAlias /confirm /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/confirm
ScriptAlias /create /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/create
ScriptAlias /edithtml /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/edithtml
ScriptAlias /listinfo /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
ScriptAlias /options /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/options
ScriptAlias /private /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/private
ScriptAlias /rmlist /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/rmlist
ScriptAlias /roster /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/roster
ScriptAlias /subscribe /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/subscribe
ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/

Edit the above paths if your Mailman installation is somewhere different.

You'll also want to put the following in mm_cfg.py:

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'metalartists.org'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.metalartists.org'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/'

I got this info from the apache.conf fragment that ships with the Mailman 
Debian package.

Hope this helps,
Geoff.


From kremels at kreme.com  Mon Nov  9 21:47:18 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:47:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] i need help for linux ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <1257263035.8405.47.camel@lady-desktop>
References: <1257263035.8405.47.camel@lady-desktop>
Message-ID: <2050EAD7-0152-4C68-B803-B136FF0BBA5F@kreme.com>

On 3-Nov-2009, at 08:43, lady wrote:
> Come sapere differenze per esempio fra Gnome e KDE di Ubuntu nel mio
> caso. Poi Dovrei sapere di pi? sulle differenze tra Linux Ubuntu e
> Xubuntu che conosco pochissimo.


GNOME and KDE are two different GUIs for Linux. Ubuntu is a specific  
variant of Linux, so GNOME and KDE for Ubuntu/MythBuntu/XuBuntu/ 
Edubuntu/Ubuntu Studio, &c are ALL Linux. Any of them will run  
Mailman. Which is best for you is a question that, realistically, only  
you can answer.

You might start here:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions>

A lot of people really like the new manager in Xubuntu. I find the  
whole thing rather pointless as I don't want a GUI on a server in the  
first place, so I tend to run stripped down FreeBSD with no window  
manager; but that's me.


-- 
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Nov  9 21:49:42 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 21:49:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe request
In-Reply-To: <7CA30760-4E7E-4C71-9693-4ABA9C4E7B5B@kreme.com>
References: <bfb.69a31be6.381f94b0@aol.com>
	<7CA30760-4E7E-4C71-9693-4ABA9C4E7B5B@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <20091109204942.GC13185@charite.de>

* LuKreme <kremels at kreme.com>:
> On 1-Nov-2009, at 18:49, UpscaleWelding at aol.com wrote:
> >Please unsubscribe me from your list.
> 
> Please unsubscribe yourself by reading ANY MESSAGE SENT TO THE LIST.
> 
> (hint, look for the word "Unsubscribe" included in every single message)
UpscaleWelding at aol.com is not subscribed to any python.org lists.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From kremels at kreme.com  Mon Nov  9 21:58:42 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:58:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe request
In-Reply-To: <20091109204942.GC13185@charite.de>
References: <bfb.69a31be6.381f94b0@aol.com>
	<7CA30760-4E7E-4C71-9693-4ABA9C4E7B5B@kreme.com>
	<20091109204942.GC13185@charite.de>
Message-ID: <A52C58E7-DA73-44BF-89DC-4A6BA8ECFF18@kreme.com>

On 9-Nov-2009, at 13:49, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> UpscaleWelding at aol.com is not subscribed to any python.org lists.

That's odd, the message I replied to came to the mailman list.

Return-Path: <mailman-users-bounces+kremels=kreme.com at python.org>
X-Original-To: kremels at kreme.com
Delivered-To: kremels at covisp.net
Received: from mail.python.org (mail.python.org [82.94.164.166])
	by mail.covisp.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D52F0118AE1B
	for <kremels at kreme.com>; Mon,  9 Nov 2009 03:24:25 -0700 (MST)
[?]
From: UpscaleWelding at aol.com
Message-ID: <bfb.69a31be6.381f94b0 at aol.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:49:36 EST
To: mailman-users at python.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: AOL 9.0 VR sub 5004
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-AOL-SENDER: UpscaleWelding at aol.com
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:43:24 +0100
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.12
Subject: Unsubscribe request
X-BeenThere: mailman-users at python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12

I guess he managed to figure it out between posting on the 1st and the  
message getting pushed through today? Of course, I didn't notice the  
date as I sort by 'date received' and not 'date sent'.

-- 
THEY ARE LAUGHING AT ME, NOT WITH ME
	Bart chalkboard Ep. 7G12


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Nov 10 01:28:52 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:28:52 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe request
In-Reply-To: <A52C58E7-DA73-44BF-89DC-4A6BA8ECFF18@kreme.com>
References: <bfb.69a31be6.381f94b0@aol.com>
	<7CA30760-4E7E-4C71-9693-4ABA9C4E7B5B@kreme.com>
	<20091109204942.GC13185@charite.de>
	<A52C58E7-DA73-44BF-89DC-4A6BA8ECFF18@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <87639j1auz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

LuKreme writes:
 > On 9-Nov-2009, at 13:49, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
 > > UpscaleWelding at aol.com is not subscribed to any python.org lists.

 > I guess he managed to figure it out between posting on the 1st and the  
 > message getting pushed through today?

More likely he was one of the folks who thinks that Mailman runs the
lists.  Google Groups ... Yahoo Groups (now *there* is an appropriate
moniker!) ... Mailman Lists.


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 04:48:08 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:48:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't post with thunderbird
In-Reply-To: <87ws1z4vad.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC1952009110919480807507290d3b6@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Johannes Wienke writes:
>
> > Sorry, the problem is already worked around ;) .
>
>No problem (except for the damned spammers who make it a reasonable
>choice to moderate lists like this one!)  On behalf of the moderators,
>I'm sorry your post was delayed.  I'm sure we're all glad your issue
>got localized/worked around.


During the moderation delay, this was asked and answered at
<https://answers.launchpad.net/mailman/+question/86976>.

For completeness here, the underlying issue was that the display-name
of the posting address contained a colon (:) and it was not being
quoted by Thunderbird. Then the unquoted special in the display-name
of the To: address was apparently causing a problem in delivery of the
outgoing mail from Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 16:36:42 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:36:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick question for a newbie
In-Reply-To: <KEELIAAEFNIDIJAKAIEOCEMJGFAA.joer@mrkgroup.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911100736420671c07b6589@msapiro>

Joe Ruffolo wrout:

>I want my list members to be able to respond back to the original poster. So
>when they hit reply the actually reply back to the person who posted the
>message. How do I do this? I've tried changing all the settings in the admin
>interface but nothing seems to work. The reply to is always
>blank-bounces at mylist.com. How do I make the reply to be the sender of the
>email?


The user's MUA is replying to the Sender: instead of the From:. Is this
perhaps MS Outlook?

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/RoA9> for some info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 16:44:28 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:44:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing Mailman
In-Reply-To: <F585CF64B67543EA8E08F842F5E53285@Zimmer.local>
Message-ID: <PC195200911100744280312c07b6414@msapiro>

Kim Huff wrote:
> So, we would want anyone that signs up to go
>into a queue and wait to be approved.


As Ralf said, you can do this totally withing Mailman via
subscribe_policy.


> The problem is. what URL does one use for to subscribe?
>Is there a way for me to customize this page?  Most of my clients use Joomla
>so I would need to make sure the subscription page can work within a Joomla
>page.


The subscribe form is on the list's listinfo page. If you want to make
a custom form, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/hIA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 16:53:00 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:53:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fake Email
In-Reply-To: <4AEC783F.5040207@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911100753000937c07b6669@msapiro>

Conrad Richter wrote:
>
>Another way to deal with this is sender confirmation by email, where,
>like subscriber confirmation by email, a message is sent with a
>confirmation link. Mailman doesn't have this capability presently but it
>seems to me that since it already has subscriber confirmation, it should
>be possible to adapt that sender confirmation.


Do you really think it's a good idea to require every post to be
confirmed? Note that since Mailman is downstream of the MTA, it
doesn't have direct access to the sender's IP, so IPs can't be
whitelisted.

Also, it is just another way to enable your server to be a source of
Joe Jobs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 16:58:18 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:58:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is There a Hack to Add Author Confirmation
	ofMessages?
In-Reply-To: <4AE6C091.1070809@richters.org>
Message-ID: <PC195200911100758180515c07b64d5@msapiro>

Conrad Richter wrote:

>Is there a hack somewhere for adding
>this confirmation feature for messages?  The fact that Mailman already
>has an email confirmation ability for subscriptions built-in suggests to
>me that someone, somewhere has figured out a way to use that facility
>for message confirmation.


I'm not aware of anyone who's done this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 17:29:44 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:29:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Googlemail vs Gmail Bounce
In-Reply-To: <4d24195a0911030444k15aed1d7yd9ed85e7b99cc7b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911100829440625c07b655d@msapiro>

James Sadri wrote:
>
>I have an issue with people using @gmail and @googlemail domains
>interchangably. I know some mailing lists you can configure to treat them as
>the same - is there a way to do that with Mailman?


This will be properly supported in MM3. In MM2.1, short of hacking the
code, there are two ways.

The member can subscribe both addresses and set one to no mail, or you
can hold non-member posts and when approving a post from a googlemail
address of a gmail member (or vice versa) check the box to add the
poster to the non-member Accepts filter.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 17:46:33 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:46:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable To Create Mailman Lists
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0910210617j7b260edy47af8f5c42b38b42@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911100846330156c07b637d@msapiro>

Carlos Williams wrote:

>I just installed Mailman 2.1.9-4 on my Linux mail server and
>configured it according to the online guide straight from the Mailman
>site. It appears to be working fine and I get hit the main page via
>Apache and see the only pubic list available called 'Mailman'. Now I
>selected the 'Admin Overview Page' and it takes me straight to the
>'Admin' page with out any credentials for password or anything. Is
>this normal Mailman behavior? Should anyone be able to simply hit my
>Mailman public page and walk right into the 'Admin' page with put any
>credentials?


I don't understand. Are you saying you go to
http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/ and you wind up at
http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/mailman/? If so, this is
something in your Apache config.

Or, are you saying you can go directly to the admin interface at
http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/mailman/ without going through
the login page. If this is the issue, there are two possible causes.
Either you previously logged in in this browser session and still have
the login cookie, or you set a null site admin password with
bin/mmsitepass (accepting a null password is a bug fixed in MM 2.1.13
to be released soon)

>Secondly - since I am in the 'Admin' page, I then attempt to select
>the link that says "create a new mailing list"


This is on the admin overview page, not the list admin page. The
overview page does not require authentication. If that's the issue
above, it's not a problem.


>which takes me to a new
>page for adding all the criteria for the new list I would like to
>generate. At the very bottom, it has a blank field box for "List
>creator's (authentication) password:" and I simply have no idea what
>that is. If I leave it blank or type in the password for the only
>Mailman list I have called "Mailman", I get an error when creating the
>new list that says: "Error: You are not authorized to create new
>mailing lists"


You need to use either the 'site' password or the special list creator
password. See bin/mmsitepass --help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 18:24:16 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:24:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please can you help me investigate an issue
	withtwo of our e mail lists.
In-Reply-To: <4AE6DA38.7060205@ucl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC195200911100924160093b5f04f6d@msapiro>

Ian Peel wrote:
>
>Mail sent to these is not being forwarded. The archive shows that these 
>stopped working on October the 8th.
>I have checked various admin setting pages however these have not 
>revealed anything to me.


It appears from the listinfo overview for your domain that the support
contact for your lists is Helpdesk at ucl.ac.uk.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 18:28:47 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:28:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick question
In-Reply-To: <KEELIAAEFNIDIJAKAIEOKEAAGGAA.support@computerbroadcastnetwork.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911100928470125e57d0cac@msapiro>

Support wrote:

>I'm trying to add a active email link in the non digest footer but having
>trouble doing so. Is this possible? 


No.


>Basically I manage around 15 lists and want people to be able to opt out of
>the list by emailing me directly at
>a certain email address. I can get the email address on there but its not
>active. I want people to just be able to click 
>it (my email address) and type remove and hit send. 


The footer is always in a text/plain part - either added to a
text/plain message or added in its own text/plain part. Many MUAs
recognize http:// strings in text/plain parts and render them as
active links, but few if any do the same with mailto:

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 18:33:22 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:33:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with plain text
In-Reply-To: <98279a20910280347p3d1900efrd210bce32d0cc065@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520091110093322051593d1a619@msapiro>

Pedro Jacobetty wrote:
>
>Is there any way I can make mailman convert MIME emails into
>plain text, so wordpress recognizes the content of the email, and not only
>its subject, in order to post it?


Use Mailman's content filtering and set collapse_alternatives and
convert_html_to_plaintext both to Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 18:52:32 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:52:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please can you help me investigate an
	issuewithtwo of our e mail lists.
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911100924160093b5f04f6d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111009523205155d0067e3@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Ian Peel wrote:
>>
>>Mail sent to these is not being forwarded. The archive shows that these 
>>stopped working on October the 8th.
>>I have checked various admin setting pages however these have not 
>>revealed anything to me.
>
>
>It appears from the listinfo overview for your domain that the support
>contact for your lists is Helpdesk at ucl.ac.uk.


OTOH, perhaps you are the help desk (I didn't carefully read the
subject before replying). If so, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

If there is nothing in the archives for these lists, and other lists
are working, the problem may have something to do with the aliases or
some other MTA issue. Perhaps a local user 'laws-pgs' was added who
now receives the list's mail? Check the MTA logs to see how mail to
these lists is being handled.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From john at cibolo.com  Tue Nov 10 19:16:44 2009
From: john at cibolo.com (John Griessen)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:16:44 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to reduce memory use?
Message-ID: <4AF9AE0C.3040601@cibolo.com>

I've just started being the list server for a low volume list
that runs on a OpenVZ virtual server where memory is limited to 256MB RAM
and when you hit various barriers your programs can't allocate more memory.

Unless you upgrade to a more expensive OpenVZ virtual server...

Apache2 seems to be failing with the least grace -- just locking up sometimes,
but adding mailman was what got me so close to my memory limits.

Suggestions?

I'm already reducing apache2 memory use by directions like:
    StartServers          1
     MinSpareServers       1
     MaxSpareServers       2


Is there anything like those directives in mailman?

Thanks,

John Griessen

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 19:29:59 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:29:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The email address you supplied is not valid.
	(E.g.it must contain an `@'.)
In-Reply-To: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE103E233E1@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <PC195200911101029590625b1177fac@msapiro>

Hicks, Robert CTR
>
>I searched Google but didn't find anything definitive for the error in the subject line. I am trying to subscribe a member and I am using a valid email address.


For Mailman, an email address MUST be qualified with a domain name,
e.g. 'user at example.com' and not just 'user' even if 'user' is a valid,
locally deliverable address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil  Tue Nov 10 19:37:49 2009
From: Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil (Hicks, Robert CTR)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:37:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The email address you supplied is not valid.
	(E.g.it must contain an `@'.)
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911101029590625b1177fac@msapiro>
References: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE103E233E1@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
	<PC195200911101029590625b1177fac@msapiro>
Message-ID: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE103EA0F79@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>

-----Original Message-----
From: mark at msapiro.net [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:30 PM
To: Hicks, Robert CTR; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] The email address you supplied is not valid. (E.g.it must contain an `@'.)

Hicks, Robert CTR
>
>I searched Google but didn't find anything definitive for the error in the subject line. I am trying to subscribe a member and I am using a valid email address.


>For Mailman, an email address MUST be qualified with a domain name,
>e.g. 'user at example.com' and not just 'user' even if 'user' is a valid,
>locally deliverable address.

Thanks! After searching more I found something about redirects and Apache messing with that. I did have a redirect in the mailman.conf file for Apache and when I took that out mailman worked as expected.

Bob

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 19:41:09 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:41:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hiding the To:
In-Reply-To: <00e401ca5de4$82cf70c0$3301a8c0@allen2>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111010410907814f4e6896@msapiro>

Allen Armstrong wrote:
>
>Is there a way to hide: to: field went sending to the list?   I want to hide
>my email address and my users email addresses.


That doesn't sound like hiding the To: header.

You can set General Options -> anonymous_list to Yes to hide the
sender's address.

The To: in delivered posts is normally the list posting address. If you
want to replace that, and if OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
in mm_cfg.py, you can set Non-digest options] -> personalize to Full
Personalization, and each delivered post will be To: the recipient,
but this won't hide the list posting address as it will be added in a
Cc: header to facilitate replying to the list, or it will be in the
From: if the list is anonymous.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mailman-owner at rx7-world.net  Tue Nov 10 19:33:50 2009
From: mailman-owner at rx7-world.net (John)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:33:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How To disable bounce handler?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.691.1257874135.2872.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.691.1257874135.2872.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <4AF9B20E.5020001@rx7-world.net>

I am having problems with my service provider handling outgoing list email... I
would like to temporarily disable bounce handling for debug so I can see the
complete bounces immediately.

Thanks,
John

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 19:49:42 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:49:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to reduce memory use?
In-Reply-To: <4AF9AE0C.3040601@cibolo.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911101049420343bd525081@msapiro>

John Griessen wrote:
>
>Apache2 seems to be failing with the least grace -- just locking up sometimes,
>but adding mailman was what got me so close to my memory limits.
>
>Suggestions?
>
>I'm already reducing apache2 memory use by directions like:
>    StartServers          1
>     MinSpareServers       1
>     MaxSpareServers       2
>
>
>Is there anything like those directives in mailman?


No. And there's really nothing you can do in Mailman short of keeping
lists small to reduce the memory required to run Mailman's CGIs in
Apache.

There is an issue with Mailman's qrunners growing large because of
caching of list objects. If this is an issue, see the changes at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.2/revision/1023>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 19:59:04 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:59:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How To disable bounce handler?
In-Reply-To: <4AF9B20E.5020001@rx7-world.net>
Message-ID: <PC195200911101059040078bd524f52@msapiro>

John wrote:

>I am having problems with my service provider handling outgoing list email... I
>would like to temporarily disable bounce handling for debug so I can see the
>complete bounces immediately.


If you have access to the mailman installation, change the list-bounces
alias to go to you.

Otherwise, all you can do is make sure that
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes so that when a member's delivery
is disabled by bounce you receive the notice which contains the full
bounce message. You can also reduce the threshold to cause delivery to
be disabled and a notice sent on the first bounce, but if you do that
in Mailman prior to 2.1.10, a bug in cron/disabled will possibly
disable delivery for users with stale bounce info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue Nov 10 20:13:14 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:13:14 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Googlemail vs Gmail Bounce
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911100829440625c07b655d@msapiro>
References: <4d24195a0911030444k15aed1d7yd9ed85e7b99cc7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195200911100829440625c07b655d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20091110191314.GO24624@amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 08:29:44AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> The member can subscribe both addresses and set one to no mail, or you
> can hold non-member posts and when approving a post from a googlemail
> address of a gmail member (or vice versa) check the box to add the
> poster to the non-member Accepts filter.

Another, rather messy way *could* be to use find_members for
gmail/googlemail, pipe to a file, use sed to build the 
counterparts, tr to replace \n with ', ', and then withlist to add 'em
to (accept|hold)_these_nonmembers... bonus points for using diff to
only do anything if there are changes to the find_members output.

I can't remember which of my list(s) had a few posters with this
'problem', but such a script shouldn't take too long to write (I don't
always commit 'trivial' scripts to my repo. mybad.)

-- 
"I am invariably puzzled by the attitude of Oxbridge to its 
 ecclesiastical past. Hearing grace recited before dinner by
 people you know don?t believe a word of it seems to be 
 considered quite normal."
   -- David Colquhoun

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 20:20:38 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:20:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving my Mailman list
In-Reply-To: <D3253700873D42578DCCD71E1BB4B3B3@gregsrocket>
Message-ID: <PC195200911101120380468745445ba@msapiro>

TG Platt - WW Publ wrote:
>
>1. Can someone tell me if my hunch about not being able to move to a new
>server and back without access to the mailman command line utils is right?


You MAY be able to move lists without access to Mailman's command line
utilities, but you can't do it without write access to the Mailman
installation's lists/ and archives/ directories which you probably
won't have either.

IOW, you will need the cooperation of the host to install the lists at
their end.


>2. Is it possible to do the entire move from my server and back with nothing
>more than a tar-ed backup and the web interface? (I think it's not.)


I think it is, but only with the requisite access - see 1.


>3. If I MUST have access to the command line utils, what commands do I need
>aside from checkperms and possibly addmember?


If you aren't changing list names or domain names, the issue is
probably only one of permissions which might be fixable just by

chgrp -R mailman path...

but they aren't gooing to let you do that either.


>4. Did I overlook something? Is there some way to set up mailman during my
>server rebuild so that multiple domains can be supported under a single
>instance of mailman WITHOUT forcing all lists to use the same hosting domain
>name?


See Geoff Shang's reply to this.


>5. Are thee any other gotchas with my plan that I've overlooked?


You need a hosting service that will agree to accept your tarball
backup (lists/ and archives/ should suffice) and install your lists
for you. Otherwise, you'll need root access to the server before
you're done.

I don't know what you can work out, but if it were me, I'd look for a
short term agreement for a VPS.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 20:27:02 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:27:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PLESK configuration question - Mailman
	defaultdomain
In-Reply-To: <570244400911082222m5b69c195t378700b9d4ad1c55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111011270200462b5638b0@msapiro>

Brandon Rodak wrote:

>
>In other words, is there a force the Plesk/Mailman not to use http://lists.<
>domain.com>/mailman/ but use http://reports.<domain.com>/mailman/ for the
>Mailman interfaces?  Is there a default template Plesk uses when a new
>mailing list (Mailman) is created which I can modify for the desired result?


I have no idea about Plesk. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/tIA9>.

The answer to your question for standard GNU Mailman is in the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/gIA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 20:36:56 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:36:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] track mail send to a mailing list
In-Reply-To: <203a064a0911090120h5b0bdf9fsae779bbab377c8f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911101136560359505c185f@msapiro>

Daniel Ganea wrote:

>I have a user that complains that he did not receive the mails, how can i
>check that?
>Is there a log for that? i've seen only this su logs that the message was
>sent to the list members:
>Nov 06 17:07:54 2009 (6726) post to infolist from infolist at xxxx.xxx,
>size=120216, message-id=<p3_20091106170750_4af449d66920d>, success


Mailman's smtp log will tell you in addition to exactly how many
recipients the mail was sent, but if he is a non-digest member with
delivery enabled, you can be confident that Mailman tried to send to
him.


>but to track that an mail was send to his email address?
>I got the confrmation that he is is a part of the list: from logs:
>Jul 17 15:30:27 2009 (10993) infolist: new "xxxxx.xxxx at xxxx.xxx" <>, admin
>mass sub
>has also the option *Mail delivery set to Enable*


You could also look at Mailman's smtp-failure and bounce logs, but you
really need to look at the MTA logs to see what the disposition of the
message to that user is. Even that won't tell you much (other that the
fact it was delivered to an MX) if his ISP is silently discarding his
message or putting it in his spam/bulk/junk folder or if some rule in
his own MUA is mis-filing it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 21:04:55 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:04:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-postfix-mysql virtual bounces with
	unknownuser: "sandbox-request"
In-Reply-To: <4AF8436F.7040403@cibolo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111012045508287561f873@msapiro>

John Griessen wrote:
>
>I've gotten the install to work up to the point of a new list member's conf email bouncing:
>-----
>The mail system
>
><sandbox-request at mail.cibolo.us> (expanded from
>     <sandbox-request at lists.cibolo.us>): unknown user: "sandbox-request"
>
>Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.cibolo.us
>-----



>
>postfix main.cf
>===========


The output of postconf -n is much easier to deal with.


[...]
>
>myhostname = mail.cibolo.us
>alias_maps = cdb:/etc/aliases


How about hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases in alias_maps?


>alias_database = cdb:/etc/aliases
>myorigin = /etc/mailname
>mydestination = localhost mail.cibolo.us localhost.cibolo.us
>mynetworks = 76.191.252.85 127.0.0.0/8
>relayhost =
>mailbox_size_limit = 80000000
>recipient_delimiter = +
>notify_classes = resource, software
>#virtual mailbox method
>virtual_mailbox_base = /var/mail/vhosts
>virtual_minimum_uid = 1999
>virtual_uid_maps = cdb:/etc/postfix/virtual_uid
>virtual_gid_maps = cdb:/etc/postfix/virtual_gid
>
>virtual_mailbox_limit = 51200000
>
>#virtual alias method
>#virtual_mailbox_domains = polymerlogic.com industromatic.com
>virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_domains_maps.cf
>#virtual_alias_maps = cdb:/etc/postfix/virtual
>virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf,
>    hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>#virtual_mailbox_maps = cdb:/etc/postfix/vmailbox
>virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf
>virtual_transport = virtual
># Additional for quota support
>#virtual_create_maildirsize = yes
>#virtual_mailbox_extended = yes
>#virtual_mailbox_limit_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_limit_maps.cf
>#virtual_mailbox_limit_override = yes
>#virtual_maildir_limit_message = Sorry, the user's maildir has overdrawn his diskspace quota, please try again later.
>#virtual_overquota_bounce = yes
>
>#If you want to use MySQL also to store your Backup MX domains add this
>#relay_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_relay_domains_maps.cf
>
>#mailman setup related:
>relay_domains =  lists.metalartists.org lists.cibolo.us

If this postfix is on the Mailman machine, these are not relay domains.
The addresses in these domains will be mapped to local addresses by
Mailman's virtual-mailman in virtual_alias_maps, but then you need
aliases to map those local addresses into pipes to the mailman
wrapper. This is the hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases that's missing
from alias_maps

>#relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
>mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1


This all looks like postfix_to_mailman.py stuff. "You must pick one or
the other, though neither of them are to be what they claim" B. Dylan

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Nov 10 21:34:25 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:34:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Multi Mail Server
In-Reply-To: <4AE9C8D5.6050206@msapiro.net>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A7318207221318F@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<20091029052328.GG10701@mail.incertum.net>
	<4AE9C8D5.6050206@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <B0EB129B-EFC1-47F5-9C6A-C4AB782D7A91@shub-internet.org>

On Oct 29, 2009, at 11:54 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> If I understand the OP's situation, this probably won't help. I think it
> is a case of a single post to a large list. In this case, a single
> OutgoingRunner will handle the message and the other runners will do
> nothing.

If it's a case of a single post to a large list, then the problem is most likely going to be Python pickle contention.  Split the large list up into multiple smaller sub-lists, with a parent "umbrella" list.  More info on that solution is in the FAQ wiki, but the OP should have already found that if they searched for "performance".

I can guarantee you that I can build an MTA configuration that is faster than Mailman could ever possibly be, for this single reason alone -- even if you run both on a pure RAMdisk.


As for the rest, an option would be to use a load-balancing switch (either hardware or implemented in software), but there's a heck of a lot of tuning to be done on a single machine running a properly configured MTA and a properly designed mailing list server infrastructure, before you get to the point where load balancing switches and multiple outbound mail relay servers would start to make a big difference.

Most of these topics are at least touched on in the FAQ Wiki and the fact that the OP hasn't mentioned them tells me that they either didn't do their homework, or they don't understand the concepts well enough to be able to do the homework.

--
Brad Knowles <bradknowles at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From john at cibolo.com  Tue Nov 10 21:55:54 2009
From: john at cibolo.com (John Griessen)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:55:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-postfix-mysql virtual bounces with
 unknownuser: "sandbox-request"
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009111012045508287561f873@msapiro>
References: <PC1952009111012045508287561f873@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4AF9D35A.8000008@cibolo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> John Griessen wrote:

>> #mailman setup related:
>> relay_domains =  lists.metalartists.org lists.cibolo.us
> 
> If this postfix is on the Mailman machine, these are not relay domains.
> The addresses in these domains will be mapped to local addresses by
> Mailman's virtual-mailman in virtual_alias_maps, but then you need
> aliases to map those local addresses into pipes to the mailman
> wrapper. This is the hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases that's missing
> from alias_maps
> 
>> #relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>> transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
>> mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1
> 
> 
> This all looks like postfix_to_mailman.py stuff. "You must pick one or
> the other, though neither of them are to be what they claim" B. Dylan
> 

I took all that out and works fine.  Thanks for clearing confusion of postfix_to_mailman.py

I'm still not sure what enables it except for it being put in the dir:
/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/

Is that all?  If so, I've disabled it.

thanks,

John G

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 22:18:07 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:18:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-postfix-mysql virtual bounces
	withunknownuser: "sandbox-request"
In-Reply-To: <4AF9D35A.8000008@cibolo.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911101318070046293ad635@msapiro>

John Griessen wrote:
>
>I'm still not sure what enables it except for it being put in the dir:
>/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/
>
>Is that all?  If so, I've disabled it.


It is enabled by having an entry in transport_maps that identifies a
'mailman' transport for serving a domain and having an entry in
master.cf that defines the 'mailman' transport as a pipe to the
mailman_to_postfix.py script.

See the comments at the beginning of the mailman_to_postfix.py script.
Everything is says under INSTALLATION: is not done if you aren't using
it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 10 23:18:58 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:18:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <4ADED973.8010302@pingnu.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911101418580234293ad724@msapiro>

Carl Parsons wrote:
>
>I rebuilt suexec so docroot is
>
>-bash-3.2# suexec -V
> -D AP_DOC_ROOT="/home"
> -D AP_GID_MIN=100
> -D AP_HTTPD_USER="apache"
> -D AP_LOG_EXEC="/var/log/httpd/suexec.log"
> -D AP_SAFE_PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin"
> -D AP_UID_MIN=500
> -D AP_USERDIR_SUFFIX="public_html"
>
>created a directory /home/mailman to put the cgi-bin files copying from 
>/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin to
>/home/mailman/cgi-bin


You didn't have to do that.

See my reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-October/067490.html>.
The important part of that reply is


>First a big caveat. Mailman's security model is not compatible with
>suexec. You can make it work if you only host a single domain, but
>beyond that, it's a pain or impossible. Maybe your recompilation will
>help. I don't know.

[...]
>suexec.log
>[2009-10-21 10:32:43]: uid: (505/mysite.com) gid: (505/mysite) cmd: listinfo
>[2009-10-21 10:32:43]: target uid/gid (505/505) mismatch with directory 
>(0/41) or program (0/41)
>
>When http is at mysite.com it executes as user mysite.


Apache is trying to run the wrapper as suExec uid and gid
uid: (505/mysite.com) gid: (505/mysite)

Your wrappers and the directory containing them are owned by root and
group 41 whatever that is. This is a violation of items 14 and 16 at
<http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/suexec.html>.

Note that the wrapper also can't be SETGID (to any group), so
everything will run as user/group 505/505 which in turn means that all
mailman code must be readable by that user/group and all existing an
future mutable data must be writable by that user/group.

For practical purposes this means that Mailman must be
configured/installed with GID 505.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mailman-owner at rx7-world.net  Wed Nov 11 02:38:08 2009
From: mailman-owner at rx7-world.net (John)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:38:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How To disable bounce handler?
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911101059040078bd524f52@msapiro>
References: <PC195200911101059040078bd524f52@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4AFA1580.3030003@rx7-world.net>

Thanks, I think I've got it set correct. My server has multiple domains, plesk
and qmail...  in case anybody with a similar setup is interested, I found the
alias at /var/qmail/mailnames/<domain>/.qmail-<listname>-bounces

John

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> John wrote:
> 
>> I am having problems with my service provider handling outgoing list email... I
>> would like to temporarily disable bounce handling for debug so I can see the
>> complete bounces immediately.
> 
> 
> If you have access to the mailman installation, change the list-bounces
> alias to go to you.
> 
> Otherwise, all you can do is make sure that
> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes so that when a member's delivery
> is disabled by bounce you receive the notice which contains the full
> bounce message. You can also reduce the threshold to cause delivery to
> be disabled and a notice sent on the first bounce, but if you do that
> in Mailman prior to 2.1.10, a bug in cron/disabled will possibly
> disable delivery for users with stale bounce info.
> 


From adam-mailman at tanqueray.amyl.org.uk  Mon Nov  9 14:10:08 2009
From: adam-mailman at tanqueray.amyl.org.uk (adam-mailman at tanqueray.amyl.org.uk)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:10:08 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] track mail send to a mailing list
In-Reply-To: <203a064a0911090120h5b0bdf9fsae779bbab377c8f5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <203a064a0911090120h5b0bdf9fsae779bbab377c8f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091109131008.GD24624@amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 11:20:10AM +0200, Daniel Ganea wrote:
> I have a user that complains that he did not receive the mails, how can i
> check that?

your MTA log?

-- 
``Another sport which wastes unlimited time is Comma-hunting.''
  (Francis Cornford, Microcosmographia Academica)

From s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk  Mon Nov  9 11:56:15 2009
From: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk (Steff Watkins)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:56:15 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using robots.txt
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0911082005170.2154@brama.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0911082005170.2154@brama.com>
Message-ID: <B61F4F3E3CA36C42AD232F19CD716E680133A0AA@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+s.watkins=nhm.ac.uk at python.org 
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+s.watkins=nhm.ac.uk at python.org] 
> On Behalf Of Max Pyziur
> Sent: 09 November 2009 01:09
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using robots.txt
> 
> Greetings
> 
> Mailman's email lists are visible search engine spiders from 
> http://www.somedomain.com/pipermail/emaillistname/etc
> 
> However, /pipermail is an alias of /var/mailman/archives/public/
> 
> per mailman.conf
> 
> I've tried placing a basic robots.txt file at 
> /var/mailman/archives/public/ and set permissions to 644. 
> However, my lists still get spidered.
> 
> Any suggestions on where to place the robots.txt file to 
> prevent spidering?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Max Pyziur
> pyz at brama.com

Hello Max,

 AFAIK your robots.txt file should be in the TOP level directory of your
website, so that it is browseable via
http://www.somedomain.com/robots.txt . This is the default location for
it and 'good' spiders will look for it there.

It should contain the allow/deny details for the whole of your website
and in your case would look something like this:

----
User-agent: *
Disallow: /pipermail/
----

.. Which informs all browsers to disallow any URL starting (containing?)
the phrase "/pipermail/".

Give that a whirl and see how it does.

Regards,
Steff Watkins
=======

From s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk  Mon Nov  9 11:47:12 2009
From: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk (Steff Watkins)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:47:12 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Administrator Authentication
In-Reply-To: <DACA6095D9B579419ED9012753D8A36380ED75EF06@VPEXCH05.purdue.lcl>
References: <DACA6095D9B579419ED9012753D8A36380ED75EF06@VPEXCH05.purdue.lcl>
Message-ID: <B61F4F3E3CA36C42AD232F19CD716E680133A0A9@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>

> From: Kuntz, Taina M.
> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 2:17 PM
> To: 'mailman-users at python.org'
> Subject: Administrator Authentication
> 
> I am the List Administrator for a couple of mailing lists. I 
> am unable to get into the system.
> I'm not sure if I typed my password incorrectly too many 
> times or if I've forgotten my password.
> Is it possible to get my password reset?
> 
> Thanks!
> Taina (tkuntz at purdue.edu)

Hello Taina,

 I don't know if this is the preferred/recommended/offically sanctioned
by Bob way to do this but if you have shell access to the mailman system
then in the 'bin' sub-directory of the mailman installation is a python
script called  change_pw. Quickly scanning through it it says in its
preamble:

"Thus, this script generates new passwords for a list, and optionally
sends it to all the owners of the list."

Take a look at that. It may just fit your needs.

Regards,
Steff Watkins (Internet? Email? It'll never catch on, you know!)
====

From mangoo at wpkg.org  Mon Nov  9 12:35:34 2009
From: mangoo at wpkg.org (Tomasz Chmielewski)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:35:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Interesting "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12"
Message-ID: <4AF7FE86.1000303@wpkg.org>

Today, I had an interesting "bug or a feature" in Mailman, which took me 
some time to fix.


I have a Mailman 2.1.12 which was running fine for months on a virtual host.

I did some low level kernel "experiments", and the virtual guest started 
to malfunction.

So, back to the original state - unfortunately Mailman interface didn't 
work anymore.

It exited with "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12".


Webserver nor Mailman logs didn't give me a clue.

I browsed Mailman installation files; lists/*/config.pck suspiciously 
had a date of 1953.

Touching these files ("find | xargs touch" in the lists dir) fixed the 
problem.


Is it a bug or a feature in mailman, that when some files in "lists" 
directory are really old, Mailman refuses to work with "Bug in Mailman 
version 2.1.12"?


-- 
Tomasz Chmielewski
http://wpkg.org

From languitar at semipol.de  Mon Nov  9 12:54:36 2009
From: languitar at semipol.de (Johannes Wienke)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:54:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't post with thunderbird
In-Reply-To: <87aayv6hcm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <4AE49A05.6040009@semipol.de>
	<87aayv6hcm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4AF802FC.1000303@semipol.de>

Am 09.11.2009 12:57 schrieb Stephen J. Turnbull:
> Johannes Wienke writes:
> 
>  > I got a strange problem with a mailman mailing list hosted at kde.org. 
>  > I'm registered at that list and also got access to the admin interface. 
>  > The problem is that if I post a message with thunderbird it gets into 
>  > the archive but isn't delivered to the subscribers of the list, 
>  > including myself.
> 
> Is your Thunderbird configuration set up to send HTML only, and the
> list set to filter it?

Sorry, the problem is already worked around ;) . The mailing list name 
includes a colon and thunderbird doesn't escape that character properly 
in the full name of the recipient. A bug report is already filed:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524471

Johannes.

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From capelle1 at charter.net  Mon Nov  9 12:56:36 2009
From: capelle1 at charter.net (Michael Capelle)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 05:56:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail delay?
References: <E0102EFB6FBB574BBF3EA287E822ADCB0BBF2B@SENLDOGO0144.springer-sbm.com>
Message-ID: <6050AF78BBA04DC59E8CBFA86D48AF12@computer1>

No, I am getting the same issue over here as well.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL" <Marco.vanKammen at springer.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 4:45 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail delay?


> This mailman list sending mails that where queued for the last 7 days or
> is it just me??
>
>
>
> -
>
> Marco van Kammen
> Springer Science+Business Media
> System Manager & Postmaster
>
> -
>
> van Godewijckstraat 30 | 3311 GX
> Office Number: 05E21
> Dordrecht | The Netherlands
>
> -
>
> tel
>
> +31(78)6576446
>
> fax
>
> +31(78)6576302
>
> -
>
> www.springeronline.com <http://www.springeronline.com>
> www.springer.com <http://www.springer.com/>
>
> -
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/capelle1%40charter.net 


From djaretti at pensatoio.it  Mon Nov  9 15:29:55 2009
From: djaretti at pensatoio.it (djaretti at pensatoio.it)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:29:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] jaretti
Message-ID: <4AF83573.20378.1626288@djaretti.pensatoio.it>

Hello,
there is any version of mailman that runs under windows xt?
thanks a lot 
best regards
djaretti at pensatoio.it

From mark at bradakis.com  Tue Nov 10 02:54:12 2009
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:54:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalized Digests
Message-ID: <4AF8C7C4.8000304@bradakis.com>

Speaking of brain dead AOL cretins, is there any way to get some sort of
personalization in digests that are sent out?  I've got a few lists 
where some
clueless AOL dimwit getting digests is marking the mail as abuse.

I would love to simply remove them from the list, but thanks to the
policies AOL has set forth, I have no way of finding out who they are.

mjb.


From jsditzel at msn.com  Tue Nov 10 11:26:42 2009
From: jsditzel at msn.com (John Ditzel)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 05:26:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can not log into my admin account
Message-ID: <SNT106-DS254F03313ED7FF64AFF5A9D6AB0@phx.gbl>

I CAN NOT LOG INTO MY ADMIN ACCOUNT. MY WEB SITE IS VOODOO-SOUND.COM, I MAY HAVE USED MY JSDITZEL at MSN.COM<mailto:JSDITZEL at MSN.COM> EMAIL ADDRESS OR CONTACT at VOODOO-SOUND.COM<mailto:CONTACT at VOODOO-SOUND.COM> I DO KNOW MY PASSWORD IS voodoo CAN YOU EMAIL MY DETAILS TO THIS EMAIL. ALSO I STILL LOST ABOUT HOW THIS LIST EVEN WORKS AND HOW TO MAKE A LIST AND SO ON. I'M NEW AT THIS. CAN YOU DIRECT ME WHERE TO GET A FULL SET OF DIRECTIONS ON THIS SERVICE, PLEASE. THANK YOU, JOHN
IF YOU NEED TO KNOW I USE SUPERGREEN HOSTING.

From perrylarkin at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 10 21:45:18 2009
From: perrylarkin at hotmail.com (Perry Larkin)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:45:18 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailing list
Message-ID: <BAY144-W104692CFE41C3456078E8DB0AB0@phx.gbl>


 It would seem as though one of our two mailing lists was completely deleted and I don't know how this happened.  I try to recreate the mailing list and I keeping getting the same error shown below.  The original mailing list was called bod at rosecourt.org.  I was not the one who originally set this account up, but I have been managing it.  I was hoping you can help me.
Perry


500 Internal Server Error
The request was not completed. The server met an unexpected condition.

  
    mail.rosecourt.org/mailman/create (port 80)
   

    Please forward this error screen to mail.rosecourt.org's 
    
    WebMaster.



Apache/2.2.14 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.14 OpenSSL/0.9.8e-fips-rhel5
mod_auth_passthrough/2.1 mod_bwlimited/1.4 FrontPage/5.0.2.2635 Server
at mail.rosecourt.org Port 80 		 	   		  

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 11 04:29:03 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:29:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Interesting "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12"
In-Reply-To: <4AF7FE86.1000303@wpkg.org>
Message-ID: <PC195200911101929030812f34de8ef@msapiro>

Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:
>
>It exited with "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12".
>
>
>Webserver nor Mailman logs didn't give me a clue.


Mailman's 'error' log should have a a complete traceback and other
information about the error.


>I browsed Mailman installation files; lists/*/config.pck suspiciously 
>had a date of 1953.
>
>Touching these files ("find | xargs touch" in the lists dir) fixed the 
>problem.


I don't see how. The traceback from the error log could help identify
the real problem.


>Is it a bug or a feature in mailman, that when some files in "lists" 
>directory are really old, Mailman refuses to work with "Bug in Mailman 
>version 2.1.12"?


Neither. The timestamp on the files should have no effect.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 11 04:32:18 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:32:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail delay?
In-Reply-To: <6050AF78BBA04DC59E8CBFA86D48AF12@computer1>
Message-ID: <PC195200911101932180078f34de620@msapiro>

Michael Capelle wrote:

>No, I am getting the same issue over here as well.


And has been posted before, these are moderation delays.

We are applying additional resources to the moderation task which
should help reduce the delay.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 11 04:45:48 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:45:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] jaretti
In-Reply-To: <4AF83573.20378.1626288@djaretti.pensatoio.it>
Message-ID: <PC195200911101945480812ee61e91c@msapiro>

djaretti at pensatoio.it wrote:

>there is any version of mailman that runs under windows xt?
>thanks a lot 


I assume you mean Windows XP since the only XT I know is the IBM PC XT
which I don't think ran any version of Windows.

I have run every version of Mailman since about 2.1.7 with Apache and
Exim on Windows XP under Cygwin. It requires one small change in
MailList.py to change the name of the 'new list' lock file from
'<site>.lock' to '=site=.lock' because the former is not a legal
Windows file name.

However, I run this for test and development purposes only. I would
never recommend exposing a Windows server to the internet.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Nov 11 04:57:12 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:57:12 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Personalized Digests
In-Reply-To: <4AF8C7C4.8000304@bradakis.com>
References: <4AF8C7C4.8000304@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <877htx4stj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark J Bradakis writes:

 > I would love to simply remove them from the list, but thanks to the
 > policies AOL has set forth, I have no way of finding out who they
 > are.

If it's a discussion list or an announcement list that the members
positively value, just announce to the list

1.  AOL is threatening to obstruct distribution of list posts to AOL
    subscribers because of one unknown complainer
2.  AOL refuses to help you unsubscribe that person
3.  subscribers from AOL addresses will henceforth have to reactivate
    their subscriptions on the first of every month.

Then start the cron job that sets all AOL addresses to no-mail at
00:01 on the first of the month.<0.9 wink>  The "0.1" part is that if
*everybody* did this, I suspect AOL might change its policies.

BTW, while some AOL users are undoubtedly dimwits (and perhaps even a
higher fraction than the population at large), I kind of suspect that
at least some of the ones who mark your distribution as spam are
victims of joe jobs.  Yes, I'm sure you're using double opt in, but
it's often fairly easy to acquire passwords; some people put them on
post-its on their monitor, others post them to Mailman-Users!


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 11 05:00:15 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:00:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can not log into my admin account
In-Reply-To: <SNT106-DS254F03313ED7FF64AFF5A9D6AB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC19520091110200015006276fee60d@msapiro>

John Ditzel wrote:

>I CAN NOT LOG INTO MY ADMIN ACCOUNT. MY WEB SITE IS VOODOO-SOUND.COM, I MAY HAVE USED MY JSDITZEL at MSN.COM<mailto:JSDITZEL at MSN.COM> EMAIL ADDRESS OR CONTACT at VOODOO-SOUND.COM<mailto:CONTACT at VOODOO-SOUND.COM> I DO KNOW MY PASSWORD IS voodoo CAN YOU EMAIL MY DETAILS TO THIS EMAIL. ALSO I STILL LOST ABOUT HOW THIS LIST EVEN WORKS AND HOW TO MAKE A LIST AND SO ON. I'M NEW AT THIS. CAN YOU DIRECT ME WHERE TO GET A FULL SET OF DIRECTIONS ON THIS SERVICE, PLEASE. THANK YOU, JOHN
>IF YOU NEED TO KNOW I USE SUPERGREEN HOSTING.


Please don't shout.

Is your question about your own Mailman list hosted at SuperGreen or
elsewhere, or is it about your membership on this list
(mailman-users at python.org)?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 11 05:09:45 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:09:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailing list
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W104692CFE41C3456078E8DB0AB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC195200911102009450859f5c3e948@msapiro>

Perry Larkin wrote:
>
> It would seem as though one of our two mailing lists was completely deleted and I don't know how this happened.  I try to recreate the mailing list and I keeping getting the same error shown below.  The original mailing list was called bod at rosecourt.org.  I was not the one who originally set this account up, but I have been managing it.  I was hoping you can help me.
>Perry
>
>
>500 Internal Server Error
>The request was not completed. The server met an unexpected condition.
>
>  
>    mail.rosecourt.org/mailman/create (port 80)
>   
>
>    Please forward this error screen to mail.rosecourt.org's 
>    
>    WebMaster.


Have you clicked the "WebMaster" link on that error page to report the
problem?

The support people at the host (rosecourt.org) are the only people who
can help you. There will be information about this error in the Apache
error logs at the host that will help determine the problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 11 05:24:13 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:24:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalized Digests
In-Reply-To: <4AF8C7C4.8000304@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111020241308284ff0e909@msapiro>

Mark J Bradakis wrote:

>Speaking of brain dead AOL cretins, is there any way to get some sort of
>personalization in digests that are sent out?

Have you tried VERP?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Wed Nov 11 06:12:57 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:12:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fake Email
In-Reply-To: <20091031155411.GC31109@inocybe.localdomain>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072D3442A@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<87ws2cgmia.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<EFB291A6-E1B0-4374-B0C9-A82DCBC48B19@python.org>
	<20091031155411.GC31109@inocybe.localdomain>
Message-ID: <6369E28D-9D03-4275-8C61-201CFF7193F8@python.org>

On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Todd Zullinger wrote:

> I don't know if the patches at http://non-gnu.uvt.nl/mailman-ssls/
> would be helpful here or not.  It's an attempt to add some OpenPGP and
> S/MIME capabilities to Mailman.

I'll take a closer look at some point, but I suspect they won't be  
relevant to Mailman 3.  OTOH, I think it would be much easier to  
implement in MM3.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Wed Nov 11 06:15:01 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:15:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fake Email
In-Reply-To: <4AEC783F.5040207@gmail.com>
References: <4AEC783F.5040207@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FD176DCD-D903-4963-927D-D712DB3297C8@python.org>

On Oct 31, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Conrad Richter wrote:

> Another way to deal with this is sender confirmation by email, where,
> like subscriber confirmation by email, a message is sent with a
> confirmation link. Mailman doesn't have this capability presently  
> but it
> seems to me that since it already has subscriber confirmation, it  
> should
> be possible to adapt that sender confirmation.
>
> This sender confirmation by email feature is available in L-Soft's
> LISTSERV, and it is an essential way to avoid fake email.
>
> In a post a few years ago Barry said that this feature was going to be
> in vers. 2.2, but that version never materialized. Will it be in  
> vers. 3?

Sort of.  What I was talking about was using mail-back confirmation as  
an option for allowing postings from email addresses that Mailman has  
never seen before (i.e. non-validated).  The confirmation message  
would be a sort of on-demand validation that would optionally be  
enough to allow that email address to post to the list.  It still  
doesn't solve any of the authentication problems with those email  
addresses.

-Barry

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From mark at bradakis.com  Wed Nov 11 05:48:13 2009
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:48:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalized Digests
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009111020241308284ff0e909@msapiro>
References: <PC1952009111020241308284ff0e909@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4AFA420D.4090302@bradakis.com>


> Have you tried VERP?
>
>   

I'd rather not turn on VERP for all 60+ lists I'm running.  As I recall
it is a domain wide setting, not a per list setting.

I was hoping there might be a way to use something like $(user_address)
in non-digest mode on digest mailings for just the one list with the
problem child on it.


mjb.


From rob.macgregor at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 08:16:38 2009
From: rob.macgregor at gmail.com (Rob MacGregor)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:16:38 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can not log into my admin account
In-Reply-To: <SNT106-DS254F03313ED7FF64AFF5A9D6AB0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT106-DS254F03313ED7FF64AFF5A9D6AB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <43ea8d070911102316x366ef147r86720591de78baf7@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 10:26, John Ditzel <jsditzel at msn.com> wrote:
> I CAN NOT LOG INTO MY ADMIN ACCOUNT. MY WEB SITE IS VOODOO-SOUND.COM, I MAY HAVE USED MY JSDITZEL at MSN.COM<mailto:JSDITZEL at MSN.COM> EMAIL ADDRESS OR CONTACT at VOODOO-SOUND.COM<mailto:CONTACT at VOODOO-SOUND.COM> I DO KNOW MY PASSWORD IS voodoo CAN YOU EMAIL MY DETAILS TO THIS EMAIL. ALSO I STILL LOST ABOUT HOW THIS LIST EVEN WORKS AND HOW TO MAKE A LIST AND SO ON. I'M NEW AT THIS. CAN YOU DIRECT ME WHERE TO GET A FULL SET OF DIRECTIONS ON THIS SERVICE, PLEASE. THANK YOU, JOHN
> IF YOU NEED TO KNOW I USE SUPERGREEN HOSTING.

And, once you've found that CAPS lock key again, go and change your
password everywhere you use it - posting it for the world to see
probably isn't the best thing to do.

-- 
                 Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
      Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
        doesn't become a monster.                  Friedrich Nietzsche

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 11 15:21:03 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:21:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalized Digests
In-Reply-To: <4AFA420D.4090302@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520091111062103053140ad8296@msapiro>

Mark J Bradakis wrote:
>
>I'd rather not turn on VERP for all 60+ lists I'm running.  As I recall
>it is a domain wide setting, not a per list setting.


Yes, VERP is a sitewide setting. You can VERP only personalized
deliveries, but you then have the catch-22 - digests aren't
personalized.


>I was hoping there might be a way to use something like $(user_address)
>in non-digest mode on digest mailings for just the one list with the
>problem child on it.


It requires modifications to a few Mailman modules. It would be easier
to set VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 for long enough to get the
information.

You could even change your crontab to run a shell script instead of
cron/senddigests.

The script could

1. edit mm_cfg.py to set VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
2. do bin/mailmanctl restart
2.5 sleep a bit
3. do cron/senddigests -l problem_list
3.5 sleep a bit
4. edit mm_cfg.py to set VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0
5. do bin/mailmanctl restart
5.5 sleep a bit
6. do cron/senddigests

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mangoo at wpkg.org  Wed Nov 11 15:14:25 2009
From: mangoo at wpkg.org (Tomasz Chmielewski)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:14:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Interesting "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12"
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911101929030812f34de8ef@msapiro>
References: <PC195200911101929030812f34de8ef@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4AFAC6C1.8080409@wpkg.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:
>> It exited with "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12".
>>
>>
>> Webserver nor Mailman logs didn't give me a clue.
> 
> 
> Mailman's 'error' log should have a a complete traceback and other
> information about the error.

Here is a sample log - it doesn't give me any clue about the nature of the problem, though:


Nov 09 11:09:55 2009 admin(7664): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
admin(7664): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.12 -----]                             
admin(7664): [----- Traceback ------]                                          
admin(7664): Traceback (most recent call last):                                
admin(7664):   File "/srv/www/vhosts/wpkg.org/mailman//scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
admin(7664):     main()                                                                      
admin(7664):   File "/srv/www/vhosts/wpkg.org/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 42, in main
admin(7664):     listinfo_overview()                                                            
admin(7664):   File "/srv/www/vhosts/wpkg.org/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 88, in listinfo_overview
admin(7664):     if mlist.advertised:                                                                        
admin(7664):   File "/srv/www/vhosts/wpkg.org/mailman//Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__        
admin(7664):     raise AttributeError, name                                                                  
admin(7664): AttributeError: advertised                                                                      
admin(7664): [----- Python Information -----]                                                                
admin(7664): sys.version     =   2.6.1 (r261:67515, Aug 22 2009, 12:28:58)                                   
[GCC 4.3.2]                                                                                                  
admin(7664): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python                                                             
admin(7664): sys.prefix      =   /usr                                                                        
admin(7664): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr                                                                        
admin(7664): sys.path        =   /usr                                                                        
admin(7664): sys.platform    =   linux2                                                                      
admin(7664): [----- Environment Variables -----]                                                             
admin(7664):    SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.11 (Mandriva Linux/PREFORK-10.6mdv2009.1)                        
admin(7664):    SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo                                                               
admin(7664):    SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.2.11 (Mandriva Linux/PREFORK-10.6mdv2009.1) Server at lists.wpkg.org Port 80</address>
admin(7664):                                                                                                                              
admin(7664):    REQUEST_METHOD: GET                                                                                                       
admin(7664):    HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300                                                                                                      
admin(7664):    SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1                                                                                                 
admin(7664):    QUERY_STRING:                                                                                                             
admin(7664):    HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7                                                                       
admin(7664):    HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.3) Gecko/20090914 Mandriva Linux/1.9.1.3-2mdv2010.0 (2010.0) Firefox/3.5.3 
admin(7664):    HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive                                                                                                                  
admin(7664):    SERVER_NAME: lists.wpkg.org                                                                                                                  
admin(7664):    REMOTE_PORT: 52584                                                                                                                           
admin(7664):    SERVER_PORT: 80                                                                                                                              
admin(7664):    SERVER_ADDR: 78.111.66.106                                                                                                                   
admin(7664):    DOCUMENT_ROOT: /srv/www/vhosts/wpkg.org/mailman/cgi-bin                                                                                      
admin(7664):    PYTHONPATH: /srv/www/vhosts/wpkg.org/mailman/                                                                                                
admin(7664):    SCRIPT_FILENAME: /srv/www/vhosts/wpkg.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo                                                                           
admin(7664):    SERVER_ADMIN: postmaster at wpkg.org                                                                                                            
admin(7664):    HTTP_HOST: lists.wpkg.org                                                                                                                    
admin(7664):    HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL: max-age=0
admin(7664):    REQUEST_URI: /
admin(7664):    HTTP_ACCEPT: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
admin(7664):    GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(7664):    REMOTE_ADDR: 82.139.209.67
admin(7664):    HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us,en;q=0.5
admin(7664):    HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate
admin(7664):    UNIQUE_ID: Svfqc8CocVcAAB2eXtAAAAAF



-- 
Tomasz Chmielewski
http://wpkg.org

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 11 15:33:57 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:33:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Interesting "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12"
In-Reply-To: <4AFAC6C1.8080409@wpkg.org>
Message-ID: <PC195200911110633570203105ae8c4@msapiro>

Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:
>>> It exited with "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12".
>>>
>>>
>>> Webserver nor Mailman logs didn't give me a clue.
>> 
>> 
>> Mailman's 'error' log should have a a complete traceback and other
>> information about the error.
>
>Here is a sample log - it doesn't give me any clue about the nature of the problem, though:
>
>
>Nov 09 11:09:55 2009 admin(7664): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
>admin(7664): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.12 -----]                             
>admin(7664): [----- Traceback ------]                                          
>admin(7664): Traceback (most recent call last):                                
>admin(7664):   File "/srv/www/vhosts/wpkg.org/mailman//scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
>admin(7664):     main()                                                                      
>admin(7664):   File "/srv/www/vhosts/wpkg.org/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 42, in main
>admin(7664):     listinfo_overview()                                                            
>admin(7664):   File "/srv/www/vhosts/wpkg.org/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 88, in listinfo_overview
>admin(7664):     if mlist.advertised:                                                                        
>admin(7664):   File "/srv/www/vhosts/wpkg.org/mailman//Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__        
>admin(7664):     raise AttributeError, name                                                                  
>admin(7664): AttributeError: advertised                                                                      


It says that the listinfo CGI was building the overview page, and was
going through the lists, instantiating each one to check it's domain
and advertised attribute to see if it should be listed.

In this process it encountered one list whose preserved state as loaded
from lists/LISTNAME/config.pck had no 'advertised' attribute.

I don't know why this occurred, or why 'touch'ing the config.pck would
have any effect on this. If the problem were still occurring, there
are ways to find out which is the problem list, but since it no longer
occurs, I think there's nothing further that can be done.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Wed Nov 11 15:47:19 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:47:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalized Digests
In-Reply-To: <PC19520091111062103053140ad8296@msapiro>
References: <PC19520091111062103053140ad8296@msapiro>
Message-ID: <59A18BCE-1ABC-4673-833B-80949823EAAB@python.org>

On Nov 11, 2009, at 8:21 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Yes, VERP is a sitewide setting. You can VERP only personalized
> deliveries, but you then have the catch-22 - digests aren't
> personalized.

BTW, I'm reworking the basic delivery machinery in Mailman 3, so I  
think it will be possible to do some personalization of digests.

-Barry

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From hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn  Thu Nov 12 03:13:12 2009
From: hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn (Hien HUYNH HUU)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:13:12 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
Message-ID: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072F7AC8F@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>

Dear all,
   How can we monitor mailman transaction with Mail Server ? It means how could we know that how many email are delivered from mailman to mail server at a time point ?
   I check qfile/out but It didn't show exactly .
   Please guide me to do this.
   Best regards,
   Huu Hien

From mailman-owner at rx7-world.net  Thu Nov 12 04:10:50 2009
From: mailman-owner at rx7-world.net (John)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:10:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How To disable bounce handler?
In-Reply-To: <4AFA1580.3030003@rx7-world.net>
References: <PC195200911101059040078bd524f52@msapiro>
	<4AFA1580.3030003@rx7-world.net>
Message-ID: <4AFB7CBA.3050509@rx7-world.net>

Looks like plesk is self healing...  :-/  when you shut off and turn on mailman
it rebuilds the list aliases. Also appears that I am running 2.1.9 and the plesk
update for mailman doesn't actually update mailman!?

I guess I need to figure out how to get 2.1.12 running. Currently ...12 update
dies because it wants the python development package. Will the current python
break plesk??  8-0  So remind me again how plesk makes my life easier?  :-P

John

I wrote:
> Thanks, I think I've got it set correct. My server has multiple domains, plesk
> and qmail...  in case anybody with a similar setup is interested, I found the
> alias at /var/qmail/mailnames/<domain>/.qmail-<listname>-bounces
> 
> John
> 
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> John wrote:
>>
>>> I am having problems with my service provider handling outgoing list email... I
>>> would like to temporarily disable bounce handling for debug so I can see the
>>> complete bounces immediately.
>>
>> If you have access to the mailman installation, change the list-bounces
>> alias to go to you.
>>
>> Otherwise, all you can do is make sure that
>> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes so that when a member's delivery
>> is disabled by bounce you receive the notice which contains the full
>> bounce message. You can also reduce the threshold to cause delivery to
>> be disabled and a notice sent on the first bounce, but if you do that
>> in Mailman prior to 2.1.10, a bug in cron/disabled will possibly
>> disable delivery for users with stale bounce info.

From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Nov 12 04:15:27 2009
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:15:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072F7AC8F@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072F7AC8F@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <4AFB7DCF.4060909@tuunq.com>

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:
> Dear all, How can we monitor mailman transaction with Mail Server ? It
> means how could we know that how many email are delivered from mailman to
> mail server at a time point ? I check qfile/out but It didn't show
> exactly .

You can either look at mailman's logs, at the MTA's logs, or watch the
connection with something like wireshark/ethereal.

z!

From hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn  Thu Nov 12 04:33:26 2009
From: hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn (Hien HUYNH HUU)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:33:26 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <4AFB7DCF.4060909@tuunq.com>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072F7AC8F@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<4AFB7DCF.4060909@tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072F7AD32@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>

I checked mailman's logs and MTA's logs ,  but It can't said exactly how many mails transferred between mail server and mailman at a point time. 
Have you got any idea ?
Rgds,
HHH

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Zwanzig [mailto:cpz at tuunq.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:15 AM
To: Hien HUYNH HUU
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:
> Dear all, How can we monitor mailman transaction with Mail Server ? It
> means how could we know that how many email are delivered from mailman to
> mail server at a time point ? I check qfile/out but It didn't show
> exactly .

You can either look at mailman's logs, at the MTA's logs, or watch the
connection with something like wireshark/ethereal.

z!

From hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn  Thu Nov 12 05:48:02 2009
From: hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn (Hien HUYNH HUU)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:48:02 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fake Email
In-Reply-To: <FD176DCD-D903-4963-927D-D712DB3297C8@python.org>
References: <4AEC783F.5040207@gmail.com>
	<FD176DCD-D903-4963-927D-D712DB3297C8@python.org>
Message-ID: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072FFF698@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>

Again about this issue ,
    Please guide me how to configure Approve Header for email policy ? And  I wonder If using Microsoft Outlook or Outlook Express to send mail to list , can user set header for him ?
    Rgds,
    Huu Hien

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+hien.hh=sbsc.com.vn at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+hien.hh=sbsc.com.vn at python.org] On Behalf Of Barry Warsaw
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:15 PM
To: Conrad Richter
Cc: Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Fake Email

On Oct 31, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Conrad Richter wrote:

> Another way to deal with this is sender confirmation by email, where, 
> like subscriber confirmation by email, a message is sent with a 
> confirmation link. Mailman doesn't have this capability presently but 
> it seems to me that since it already has subscriber confirmation, it 
> should be possible to adapt that sender confirmation.
>
> This sender confirmation by email feature is available in L-Soft's 
> LISTSERV, and it is an essential way to avoid fake email.
>
> In a post a few years ago Barry said that this feature was going to be 
> in vers. 2.2, but that version never materialized. Will it be in vers. 
> 3?

Sort of.  What I was talking about was using mail-back confirmation as an option for allowing postings from email addresses that Mailman has never seen before (i.e. non-validated).  The confirmation message would be a sort of on-demand validation that would optionally be enough to allow that email address to post to the list.  It still doesn't solve any of the authentication problems with those email addresses.

-Barry


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Nov 12 06:34:04 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:34:04 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How To disable bounce handler?
In-Reply-To: <4AFB7CBA.3050509@rx7-world.net>
References: <PC195200911101059040078bd524f52@msapiro>
	<4AFA1580.3030003@rx7-world.net> <4AFB7CBA.3050509@rx7-world.net>
Message-ID: <87k4xwi9wz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

John writes:

 > So remind me again how plesk makes my life easier?  :-P

For Mailman usage, it doesn't.  It probably has a lot of plusses as an
overall hosting solution.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Nov 12 06:36:48 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:36:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072F7AD32@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072F7AC8F@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<4AFB7DCF.4060909@tuunq.com>
	<B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072F7AD32@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <87iqdgi9sf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Hien HUYNH HUU writes:

 > I checked mailman's logs and MTA's logs , but It can't said exactly
 > how many mails transferred between mail server and mailman at a
 > point time.

I think that in the contrib directory there's a script that produces a
summary of the logs.  You should be able to get such statistics with
that script or a modified version.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Nov 12 07:20:30 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:20:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <87iqdgi9sf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072F7AC8F@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<4AFB7DCF.4060909@tuunq.com>
	<B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072F7AD32@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<87iqdgi9sf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <69E36FD5-61BC-4036-B528-548BA6A328F1@shub-internet.org>

On Nov 11, 2009, at 11:36 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> I think that in the contrib directory there's a script that produces a
> summary of the logs.  You should be able to get such statistics with
> that script or a modified version.

I originally wrote the mmdsr script because there was all sorts of information in the wide variety of Mailman logs, but it was very inconsistent in the way that information was logged, and what went into what log file.  At the time, I desperately needed more information to help me assist in the management of the mailing lists and general mail server functions for python.org, including this list.

Since then, I've gotten a better handle on what is going on when, and I have had less need for the script myself, but there are others on the Mailman/Python.org Postmaster Team who continue to find that information very useful.  Mark has semi-unofficially taken over continuing maintenance on it, which is fine by me because I haven't had the time or inclination to deal with some of the issues that have been reported since the last time I touched the script.


However, that's just the Mailman side of that equation.  You should have similar tools for whatever MTA you're using, so that you get a better idea of what's going on across the whole system.

I have not touched any such scripts in many, many years, but I'm sure there are plenty of such tools available for various popular MTAs out there.

--
Brad Knowles <bradknowles at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From bibekshrestha at gmail.com  Thu Nov 12 05:15:32 2009
From: bibekshrestha at gmail.com (Bibek Shrestha)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:00:32 +0545
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not receiving any emails.
Message-ID: <868f3a740911112015k179dffc5nb5bbbf410eca79f4@mail.gmail.com>

I have mailman running in my virtual server with cpanel and whm (web host
manager)

I can easily create mailing lists and add subscribers to it through
administration login. The problem is, the mailman does not receive any
emails when a subscriber sends it to it. What might be the possible cases?

I've checked the mta logs which seem to be routing the emails sent to
mailing lists.
here is the log entry of exim while receiving email for mailing list.

2009-11-11 23:00:16 1N8Qr2-0006Fx-QO <= bibekshrestha [at] gmail.com H=
qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.27] P=esmtp S=2257 id=868f3a740911111959y
7b997720s6491f2038ae8c895 at mail.gmail.com T="[Mailman-yipl] testing sample
email"
2009-11-11 23:00:16 cwd=/var/spool/exim 3 args: /usr/sbin/exim -Mc
1N8Qr2-0006Fx-QO
2009-11-11 23:00:17 1N8Qr2-0006Fx-QO => sample1 <sample1 [at] yiwebhost.com>
R=mailman_virtual_router T=mailman_virtual_transport
2009-11-11 23:00:17 1N8Qr2-0006Fx-QO Completed

Where should i look now?

Bibek Shrestha
-- 
bibekshrestha at gmail dot com
Blog: http://bibekshrestha.com.np
Twitter: http://twitter.com/bibstha

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 12 07:56:06 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:56:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not receiving any emails.
In-Reply-To: <868f3a740911112015k179dffc5nb5bbbf410eca79f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911112256060796f1f057a2@msapiro>

Bibek Shrestha wrote:

>I have mailman running in my virtual server with cpanel and whm (web host
>manager)
>
>I can easily create mailing lists and add subscribers to it through
>administration login. The problem is, the mailman does not receive any
>emails when a subscriber sends it to it. What might be the possible cases?
>
>I've checked the mta logs which seem to be routing the emails sent to
>mailing lists.
>here is the log entry of exim while receiving email for mailing list.
>
>2009-11-11 23:00:16 1N8Qr2-0006Fx-QO <= bibekshrestha [at] gmail.com H=
>qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.27] P=esmtp S=2257 id=868f3a740911111959y
>7b997720s6491f2038ae8c895 at mail.gmail.com T="[Mailman-yipl] testing sample
>email"
>2009-11-11 23:00:16 cwd=/var/spool/exim 3 args: /usr/sbin/exim -Mc
>1N8Qr2-0006Fx-QO
>2009-11-11 23:00:17 1N8Qr2-0006Fx-QO => sample1 <sample1 [at] yiwebhost.com>
>R=mailman_virtual_router T=mailman_virtual_transport
>2009-11-11 23:00:17 1N8Qr2-0006Fx-QO Completed
>
>Where should i look now?

Is Mailman actually running?

See the troubleshooting FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9> and the
cPanel FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 12 08:32:31 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:32:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072F7AD32@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <PC195200911112332310203f2fe06aa@msapiro>

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

>I checked mailman's logs and MTA's logs ,  but It can't said exactly how many mails transferred between mail server and mailman at a point time. 


Mailman's smtp log contains entries like:

Nov 11 18:16:07 2009 (2392) <message-id> smtp to listname for 181
recips, completed in 5.353 seconds

It seems that that is exactly the information you're looking for. You
can look at the raw log or use the mmdsr script referred to by Stephen
and Brad to summarize it.

If you need more detail that that, you'll have to analyze your MTA's
logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 12 09:02:50 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:02:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fake Email
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072FFF698@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111200025000003fa8e5f2@msapiro>

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

>Again about this issue ,
>    Please guide me how to configure Approve Header for email policy ? And  I wonder If using Microsoft Outlook or Outlook Express to send mail to list , can user set header for him ?


I am not an Outlook expert by any means, but I don't think Outlook
provides a way for a user to set custom headers.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/XIA9>, but be aware that if you
put the Approved: line in the body of the message, it must be the
first line of the first text/plain part of the message. This precludes
using the body line method in an HTML only email. It will work in a
multipart/alternative message that has a text/plain part, but in that
case, removal of the line and password from the non-text/plain
alternative parts is on a best effort basis and while generally
successful, is not guaranteed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn  Thu Nov 12 09:13:16 2009
From: hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn (Hien HUYNH HUU)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:13:16 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911112332310203f2fe06aa@msapiro>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072F7AD32@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<PC195200911112332310203f2fe06aa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072FFF800@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>

Hi Mark,
   I checked , but It didn't show exactly :

Nov 12 10:35:17 2009 (21892) <mailman.185.1257996917.21888.listname at domain.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.111 seconds
Nov 12 10:45:17 2009 (21892) <mailman.186.1257997515.21888.listname at domain.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.095 seconds
   
   As you see, It just show 1 recips per line in 0.x seconds.
   When I count :

  [root at pxp02 logs]# cat smtp | grep "Nov 12" |wc -l
  30
  
   But my list has over 10000 emails , so this log shows not correctly.
   Best regards,
   Huu Hien


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:33 PM
To: Hien HUYNH HUU; Carl Zwanzig
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

>I checked mailman's logs and MTA's logs ,  but It can't said exactly how many mails transferred between mail server and mailman at a point time. 


Mailman's smtp log contains entries like:

Nov 11 18:16:07 2009 (2392) <message-id> smtp to listname for 181
recips, completed in 5.353 seconds

It seems that that is exactly the information you're looking for. You
can look at the raw log or use the mmdsr script referred to by Stephen
and Brad to summarize it.

If you need more detail that that, you'll have to analyze your MTA's
logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 12 09:34:32 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:34:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072FFF800@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111200343207813fa8e8ed@msapiro>

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

>Hi Mark,
>   I checked , but It didn't show exactly :
>
>Nov 12 10:35:17 2009 (21892) <mailman.185.1257996917.21888.listname at domain.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.111 seconds
>Nov 12 10:45:17 2009 (21892) <mailman.186.1257997515.21888.listname at domain.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.095 seconds
>
>   As you see, It just show 1 recips per line in 0.x seconds.
>   When I count :


Those two entries are for the delivery of mailman generated notices to
the list owner or the poster or ?? They are not for delivery of a post.


>  [root at pxp02 logs]# cat smtp | grep "Nov 12" |wc -l
>  30
>
>   But my list has over 10000 emails , so this log shows not correctly.


If there is a post on Nov 12, Mailman hasn't yet finished it's delivery
to the MTA. The log entry is written after the message has been sent
to everyone.

If you want to know where it is in the delivery process for a single
message that is taking a long time, you will have to look at the MTA
logs or perhaps enable debug output from smtplib - see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn  Thu Nov 12 09:55:52 2009
From: hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn (Hien HUYNH HUU)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:55:52 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009111200343207813fa8e8ed@msapiro>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072FFF800@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<PC1952009111200343207813fa8e8ed@msapiro>
Message-ID: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072FFF87D@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>

Hi Mark,
  These 2 log lines are generated when a post was sent successful to everyone (I just tail 2 last lines). May be something wrongs ? I'm using Mailman-2.1.12.
  Rgds,
  Huu Hien
  

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:35 PM
To: Hien HUYNH HUU; Carl Zwanzig
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

>Hi Mark,
>   I checked , but It didn't show exactly :
>
>Nov 12 10:35:17 2009 (21892) <mailman.185.1257996917.21888.listname at domain.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.111 seconds
>Nov 12 10:45:17 2009 (21892) <mailman.186.1257997515.21888.listname at domain.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.095 seconds
>
>   As you see, It just show 1 recips per line in 0.x seconds.
>   When I count :


Those two entries are for the delivery of mailman generated notices to
the list owner or the poster or ?? They are not for delivery of a post.


>  [root at pxp02 logs]# cat smtp | grep "Nov 12" |wc -l
>  30
>
>   But my list has over 10000 emails , so this log shows not correctly.


If there is a post on Nov 12, Mailman hasn't yet finished it's delivery
to the MTA. The log entry is written after the message has been sent
to everyone.

If you want to know where it is in the delivery process for a single
message that is taking a long time, you will have to look at the MTA
logs or perhaps enable debug output from smtplib - see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 12 10:14:16 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 01:14:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072FFF87D@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111201141608908118694a@msapiro>

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

>  These 2 log lines are generated when a post was sent successful to everyone (I just tail 2 last lines). May be something wrongs ? I'm using Mailman-2.1.12.


Try looking at the whole log or grepping it for the message id of your
post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bibekshrestha at gmail.com  Thu Nov 12 13:25:28 2009
From: bibekshrestha at gmail.com (Bibek Shrestha)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:10:28 +0545
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not receiving any emails.
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911112256060796f1f057a2@msapiro>
References: <868f3a740911112015k179dffc5nb5bbbf410eca79f4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<PC195200911112256060796f1f057a2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <868f3a740911120425y11eac64v15735385aa442e02@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Mark,

The Troubleshooting page helped. it seems the mailmanctl wasn't started.
Strange how it got stopped.

Cheers

Bibek Shrestha
-- 
bibekshrestha at gmail dot com
Blog: http://bibekshrestha.com.np
Twitter: http://twitter.com/bibstha


On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Bibek Shrestha wrote:
>
> >I have mailman running in my virtual server with cpanel and whm (web host
> >manager)
> >
> >I can easily create mailing lists and add subscribers to it through
> >administration login. The problem is, the mailman does not receive any
> >emails when a subscriber sends it to it. What might be the possible cases?
> >
> >I've checked the mta logs which seem to be routing the emails sent to
> >mailing lists.
> >here is the log entry of exim while receiving email for mailing list.
> >
> >2009-11-11 23:00:16 1N8Qr2-0006Fx-QO <= bibekshrestha [at] gmail.com H=
> >qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.27] P=esmtp S=2257
> id=868f3a740911111959y
> >7b997720s6491f2038ae8c895 at mail.gmail.com T="[Mailman-yipl] testing sample
> >email"
> >2009-11-11 23:00:16 cwd=/var/spool/exim 3 args: /usr/sbin/exim -Mc
> >1N8Qr2-0006Fx-QO
> >2009-11-11 23:00:17 1N8Qr2-0006Fx-QO => sample1 <sample1 [at]
> yiwebhost.com>
> >R=mailman_virtual_router T=mailman_virtual_transport
> >2009-11-11 23:00:17 1N8Qr2-0006Fx-QO Completed
> >
> >Where should i look now?
>
> Is Mailman actually running?
>
> See the troubleshooting FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9> and the
> cPanel FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From online at patrick-brueckner.de  Thu Nov 12 14:44:48 2009
From: online at patrick-brueckner.de (Patrick Brueckner)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:44:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Complex accept_these_nonmembers rule
Message-ID: <4AFC1150.6040503@patrick-brueckner.de>

Hello list,

I'm looking for a solution to solve this problem:

I have a few lists (~20) in which i have a lot of members.
A lot of members receive their eMails from an adress 
example1 at domain1.com; but they can only send their mails from 
example1 at domain2.com

Is there a way have mailman accept emails from 
example1@[domain1.com|domain2.com] without having to enter all 
example1 at ... example2 at ... to the accept_these_nonmember rules? In logic 
this would look like this:

if SENDER_DOMAIN = "domain1.com" {
    if SENDER_USER at domain2.com exist {
         approve
     } else {
         deny
     }
}

I hope you get what I am looking for.
Regards,
Patrick


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Thu Nov 12 17:04:14 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:04:14 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Complex accept_these_nonmembers rule
In-Reply-To: <4AFC1150.6040503@patrick-brueckner.de>
References: <4AFC1150.6040503@patrick-brueckner.de>
Message-ID: <20091112160414.GP24624@amyl.org.uk>

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 02:44:48PM +0100, Patrick Brueckner wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> I'm looking for a solution to solve this problem:
> 
> I have a few lists (~20) in which i have a lot of members.
> A lot of members receive their eMails from an adress 
> example1 at domain1.com; but they can only send their mails from 
> example1 at domain2.com

Is it always the same domain? Do you want to allow the *entire*
domain, and any other sub-domains? if that's the case, you might want
to look at
    <http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg51929.html>

> Is there a way have mailman accept emails from 
> example1@[domain1.com|domain2.com] without having to enter all 
> example1 at ... example2 at ... to the accept_these_nonmember rules? 

That makes me think not, in which case
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-November/067679.html>
may be useful.

-- 
``What does it mean? It means I never have to work again.''
  (Don McLean, on `American Pie', attrib.)

From jay at splitstreams.com  Thu Nov 12 18:30:37 2009
From: jay at splitstreams.com (Jay Deiman)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:30:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer not being appended to messages in 2.1.10
Message-ID: <4AFC463D.2010802@splitstreams.com>

Hello all,

I've been running mailman 2.1.10 on FreeBSD 6.2 for quite some time now 
and I just recently noticed that the default footer (msg_footer) is not 
being appended to all the messages.  Is there something else that needs 
to be set/enabled to turn this on?  I've searched for this problem and 
I've found nothing so I'm kind of assuming that I'm missing a setting 
somewhere.

Thanks,

Jay

-- 
Jay Deiman

\033:wq!

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 12 19:14:21 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:14:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer not being appended to messages in 2.1.10
In-Reply-To: <4AFC463D.2010802@splitstreams.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911121014210953aa1eea8e@msapiro>

Jay Deiman wrote:
>
>I've been running mailman 2.1.10 on FreeBSD 6.2 for quite some time now 
>and I just recently noticed that the default footer (msg_footer) is not 
>being appended to all the messages.  Is there something else that needs 
>to be set/enabled to turn this on?  I've searched for this problem and 
>I've found nothing so I'm kind of assuming that I'm missing a setting 
>somewhere.


If you have text in Non-digest options -> msg_footer, it should be
added to every outgoing individual message, either directly to the
message body or as a separate MIME part depending on the MIME
structure of the message.

The only thing that controls it is the presence of text in msg_footer.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mailman-owner at rx7-world.net  Thu Nov 12 22:02:28 2009
From: mailman-owner at rx7-world.net (John)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:02:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call me Don Quixote...  :-(
Message-ID: <4AFC77E4.80801@rx7-world.net>

I have to impossible dream of have *all* the mailing lists on my server work. So
far one of the previously working lists continues to evade all methods of
retrieving useful debug information...  The other lists on the same
server/domain currently seem to be OK, so the only conclusion I have is it's the
number of subscribers or my provider is blocking emails out. Digests for the
problem list still seem to go out every day. The original problem seemed to be
RBL related, but that problem has either been solved or well obscured...
Server info:
   Intel(R) Xeon(R)CPU 5110 @ 1.60GHz
   Red Hat Fedora Core 7, Linux 2.6.9-023stab043.1-smp
   Parallels Plesk 9.2.3
   Mailman 2.1.9

What hasn't worked:
* My service provider claimed the info in disable messages was insufficient for
debug!?
* I tried to bypass bounce processing by changing the list-bounces alias. Plesk
fixed the alias.
* I reduced the bounce threshold, now people are kicked off sooner. Today's
batch of almost 200 disables returned no useful information! All returned:
> The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
> 
> Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
> mailman at rx7-world.net.
> 
> [disabled by periodic sweep and cull, no message available]

* VERP worked a couple times on my test list, but never on the other lists, even
though *sometimes* it did send the messages individually from the standard
list-bounce address. I set VERP options:
   VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
   VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1

* tried to update from 2.1.9 to 2.1.12, but Mailman requires the Python
development package. The latest Python won't install for some obscure reason...
(Why my PC running Linux has Python dev. and will install Mailman and the server
services I *PAY* for won't is a baffling question...)

* couldn't find any useful information in the logfiles.

Have I mentioned that I'm frustrated and likely have ~450 annoyed list members
by now? Not to mention that every piece of SPAM on the planet seems to have no
problem finding it's way to <list>-owner at mydomain...  :-/

Hopefully someone has a hint that might help me find a resolution to the problem....

John

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 12 23:36:50 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:36:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call me Don Quixote...  :-(
In-Reply-To: <4AFC77E4.80801@rx7-world.net>
Message-ID: <PC195200911121436500531b3d71605@msapiro>

John wrote:

>What hasn't worked:
>* My service provider claimed the info in disable messages was insufficient for
>debug!?


And can you post one?


>* I reduced the bounce threshold, now people are kicked off sooner. Today's
>batch of almost 200 disables returned no useful information! All returned:
>> The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
>> 
>> Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
>> mailman at rx7-world.net.
>> 
>> [disabled by periodic sweep and cull, no message available]


Because there was no 'triggering' bounce. The disable occurred because
the threshold was reduced to a value <= the current score for these
200.


>* VERP worked a couple times on my test list, but never on the other lists, even
>though *sometimes* it did send the messages individually from the standard
>list-bounce address. I set VERP options:
>   VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
>   VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1


Did you restart Mailman after changing those settings in mm_cfg.py?


>* couldn't find any useful information in the logfiles.


Anything in smtp-failure?

Does the smtp log say it delivered the post to the appropriate number
of recipients?


>Hopefully someone has a hint that might help me find a resolution to the problem....


Show us a disable message with an actual triggering bounce.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mailman-owner at rx7-world.net  Fri Nov 13 00:49:04 2009
From: mailman-owner at rx7-world.net (John)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:49:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call me Don Quixote...  :-(
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911121436500531b3d71605@msapiro>
References: <PC195200911121436500531b3d71605@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4AFC9EF0.9070103@rx7-world.net>

answers inline...

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> John wrote:
> 
>> What hasn't worked:
>> * My service provider claimed the info in disable messages was insufficient for
>> debug!?
> 
> 
> And can you post one?

This was around the time my provider changed the smart host pool... The
64.202.189.86  IP address was in the pool & on at least 2 RBLs. The
208.109.80.54 IP is in the new pool and apparently still on 1 RBL list :-(. They
claim they did not bounce back to my server... I haven't seen this since 11/10,
but the rx7 list email is not being delivered.  I don't understand why my other
lists seem to be unaffected...

----------------------------------------
    List:       rx7
    Member:     username at aol.com
    Action:     Subscription disabled.
    Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.


The triggering bounce notice is attached below.

Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
mailman at rx7-world.net.


<username at sc.rr.com>:
64.202.189.86 failed after I sent the message.
Remote host said: 554 Message refused.

	long list of similar msgs removed...

<username at aol.com>:
208.109.80.54 failed after I sent the message.
Remote host said: 554 Message refused.
----------------------------------------

>> * I reduced the bounce threshold, now people are kicked off sooner. Today's
>> batch of almost 200 disables returned no useful information! All returned:
>>> The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
>>>
>>> Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
>>> mailman at rx7-world.net.
>>>
>>> [disabled by periodic sweep and cull, no message available]
> 
> 
> Because there was no 'triggering' bounce. The disable occurred because
> the threshold was reduced to a value <= the current score for these
> 200.

That makes sense, since I changed the bounce threshold...

>> * VERP worked a couple times on my test list, but never on the other lists, even
>> though *sometimes* it did send the messages individually from the standard
>> list-bounce address. I set VERP options:
>>   VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
>>   VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
> 
> 
> Did you restart Mailman after changing those settings in mm_cfg.py?

I don't remember, but I did now...

>> * couldn't find any useful information in the logfiles.
> 
> 
> Anything in smtp-failure?

empty

> Does the smtp log say it delivered the post to the appropriate number
> of recipients?

it's hard to say... there is no single entry for the problem list that has the
correct number (446 less a few nomail). I also don't know what the items are per
line. I assume it's:
timestamp, (???), msg ID, info
-> Nov 12 03:45:42 2009 (32441) <mailman.3.1258026341.7724.rx7 at rx7-world.net>
-> smtp to rx7 for 1 recips, completed in 0.135 seconds

What's the value in ()'s? It doesn't seem to be msg length...

>> Hopefully someone has a hint that might help me find a resolution to the problem....
> 
> 
> Show us a disable message with an actual triggering bounce.

see above...

Thanks,
John

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 13 05:13:34 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:13:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call me Don Quixote...  :-(
In-Reply-To: <4AFC9EF0.9070103@rx7-world.net>
Message-ID: <PC195200911122013340015a576a831@msapiro>

John wrote:

>answers inline...
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> John wrote:
>> 
>>> What hasn't worked:
>>> * My service provider claimed the info in disable messages was insufficient for
>>> debug!?
>> 
>> 
>> And can you post one?
>
>This was around the time my provider changed the smart host pool... The
>64.202.189.86  IP address was in the pool & on at least 2 RBLs. The
>208.109.80.54 IP is in the new pool and apparently still on 1 RBL list :-(. They
>claim they did not bounce back to my server...


They aren't bouncing to your server. They are refusing to accept the
message from your server. The fact that those IPs may be in RBLs is
not relevant, because that would only affect delivery from them to the
destination, and they aren't accepting the mail from you in the first
place.


> I haven't seen this since 11/10,
>but the rx7 list email is not being delivered.  I don't understand why my other
>lists seem to be unaffected...


If it's only one list, it might have something to do with the smarthost
not liking the particular rx7-bounces at ... envelope sender. That's
about the only thing that's list specific except maybe list size.


>----------------------------------------
>    List:       rx7
>    Member:     username at aol.com
>    Action:     Subscription disabled.
>    Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.
>
>
>The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
>
>Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
>mailman at rx7-world.net.


You have not included the headers of this notification message part ,
but presumably it came from your own MTA.


><username at sc.rr.com>:
>64.202.189.86 failed after I sent the message.
>Remote host said: 554 Message refused.
>
>	long list of similar msgs removed...
>
><username at aol.com>:
>208.109.80.54 failed after I sent the message.
>Remote host said: 554 Message refused.
>----------------------------------------


And as you know, those IPs are servers in the secureserver.net domain
which presumably are the smarthost through which you're relaying and
it is these servers that are refusing to accept the message from you.

How do you authenticate to these servers? Why should they accept and
relay your mail?


>>> * VERP worked a couple times on my test list, but never on the other lists, even
>>> though *sometimes* it did send the messages individually from the standard
>>> list-bounce address. I set VERP options:
>>>   VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
>>>   VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
>> 
>> 
>> Did you restart Mailman after changing those settings in mm_cfg.py?
>
>I don't remember, but I did now...
>
>>> * couldn't find any useful information in the logfiles.
>> 
>> 
>> Anything in smtp-failure?
>
>empty
>
>> Does the smtp log say it delivered the post to the appropriate number
>> of recipients?
>
>it's hard to say... there is no single entry for the problem list that has the
>correct number (446 less a few nomail).


What are the recipient numbers in the entry(s) for the message-id of a
post?


>I also don't know what the items are per
>line. I assume it's:
>timestamp, (???), msg ID, info
>-> Nov 12 03:45:42 2009 (32441) <mailman.3.1258026341.7724.rx7 at rx7-world.net>
>-> smtp to rx7 for 1 recips, completed in 0.135 seconds
>
>What's the value in ()'s? It doesn't seem to be msg length...


It's the PID of the OutgoingRunner that logged the message. Also, the
message-id in the above entry is a Mailman generated message of some
kind, e.g. an owner notification or a held or rejected post message.

the '3' is a sequence number, the 1258026341 is a time stamp (seconds
since the epoch) and 7724 is the PID of the process that generated the
message as opposed to 32441, the PID of the process that delivered the
message

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bernardo at outpost.be  Thu Nov 12 22:55:12 2009
From: bernardo at outpost.be (bernardo at outpost.be)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:55:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with reply in the mailing list
Message-ID: <20091112225512.koz5e5lackssokg4@webmail.outpost.be>

Hello,

I have a question on how to manage a mailing list in order that all  
the members can only send a mail to the admin and not to everyone on  
the list.

Thanks in advance,

Bernardo

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 13 16:01:11 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:01:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with reply in the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <20091112225512.koz5e5lackssokg4@webmail.outpost.be>
Message-ID: <PC195200911130701110828421ee907@msapiro>

bernardo at outpost.be wrote:
>
>I have a question on how to manage a mailing list in order that all  
>the members can only send a mail to the admin and not to everyone on  
>the list.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/3YA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Fri Nov 13 16:08:33 2009
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:08:33 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with reply in the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <20091112225512.koz5e5lackssokg4@webmail.outpost.be>
References: <20091112225512.koz5e5lackssokg4@webmail.outpost.be>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911131703221.2693@data.home>

On Thu, 12 Nov 2009, bernardo at outpost.be wrote:

> I have a question on how to manage a mailing list in order that all the 
> members can only send a mail to the admin and not to everyone on the list.

First, set the list up so that everyone is moderated by default, and so 
that the default moderation action is to reject, optionally customising 
the reason.  Then you can take those who are allowed to post off 
moderation.

If you want to make replies go to a specific address rather than to the 
person who sends a posting, you can set the list to reply to a specific 
address and put in the list admin as the address it should go to.

Think that's all you need to do.

Geoff.


From liz at txlands.net  Fri Nov 13 16:53:30 2009
From: liz at txlands.net (Liz Bugh)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:53:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman
Message-ID: <87308c210911130753r79fd5bf0m6d54460a04390602@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

We are attempting to use your mailing program through our webhost, Bluehost,
for mail-outs to clients we do business with.  In setting up a test mailing
group, we encountered problems and Bluehost was not able to answer our
questions or help us at all.  Here is the issue:  The test mailing list I
set up was named "lizcontacts".  I sent an email to a member list of 3
people.  The member with Gmail received the email correctly ...  from "
lizcontacts at txlands.net" ... plain and simple.  The members with Hotmail and
Yahoo received the email from "lizcontacts-bounces at txlands.net on behalf of
Liz Bugh (liz at txlands.net)"  Why the difference?  What actually bothers us
is the "bounces" word ... not very appealing for someone to view in their
inbox in a day where spam and destructive email is so prevalent.  How can we
eliminate "bounces" from the sender title?

I would greatly appreciate your help with this.

Thanks,

Liz Bugh
Heritage Select Investments, LLC
Secure Covenant Interests, Ltd.
1619 Sam Houston Avenue
Huntsville, Texas  77340

www.txlands.net

(936) 291-7141 - office
(936) 291-3036 - fax

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov 14 01:10:50 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:10:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman
In-Reply-To: <87308c210911130753r79fd5bf0m6d54460a04390602@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911131610500890543f116c@msapiro>

Liz Bugh wrote:
>
>In setting up a test mailing
>group, we encountered problems and Bluehost was not able to answer our
>questions or help us at all.  Here is the issue:  The test mailing list I
>set up was named "lizcontacts".  I sent an email to a member list of 3
>people.  The member with Gmail received the email correctly ...  from "
>lizcontacts at txlands.net" ... plain and simple.  The members with Hotmail and
>Yahoo received the email from "lizcontacts-bounces at txlands.net on behalf of
>Liz Bugh (liz at txlands.net)"  Why the difference?


The difference is not in the messages. It is in the way Microsoft
software (Outlook, Hotmail, Windows Live Mail) displays the message.


>What actually bothers us
>is the "bounces" word ... not very appealing for someone to view in their
>inbox in a day where spam and destructive email is so prevalent.  How can we
>eliminate "bounces" from the sender title?


You can't. Perhaps Bluehost can. See the FAQ article at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/RoA9> for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gordon at tft-bbs.co.uk  Sat Nov 14 21:32:59 2009
From: gordon at tft-bbs.co.uk (Gordon Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:32:59 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MailMan Configuration under Apple OS X Server 10.6.2
Message-ID: <DC01C17A-1C3B-48EC-A076-E33E4165F7CF@tft-bbs.co.uk>

Hello

Firstly, can I congratulate you for making such a powerful piece of software as Mailman available for free and open source. I also am grateful to you for allowing Apple to implement it into their server solution.

As a new administrator serving the needs of a large group of visually impaired users, I need to take advantage of Mailman to implement our mailing lists.

I'm having a problem, however. And I wondered whether you'd be able to help me.

I need to host lists in a number of virtual domains and I'm a little unclear as to how to proceed beyond the basic configuration as I'm getting errors.

So, to try and explain.  My server's fully qualified domain name is mail.tft-bbs.co.uk and I need to host lists, as I said, in virtual domains.

So, I modified the paths, correctly I think, to point to the virtual alias and Mailman files so that Mailman and Postfix would interact.

First, I used the following commands in Apple's Terminal to view the Postfix virtual maps file:

sudo /usr/sbin/postconf virtual_alias_maps

Then, I did the following to add the path to the virtual Mailman file:

sudo /usr/sbin/postconf -e virtual_alias_maps='hash:/etc/postfix/virtual_users, hash:/var/mailman/data/virtual-mailman'

Then, I manually edited:

/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py

Python script to add the virtual domains in the Postfix_style variable, as follows:

MTA = 'Postfix'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = '<mail.tft-bbs.co.uk>'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = '<mail.tft-bbs.co.uk>'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'cecimac.org', 'dane-trethowan.net', 'gordon-smith.me.uk', 'small-world-radio.net', 'softcon.com', 'tft-bbs.com', 'tft-bbs.org', 'tft-bbs.org.uk', 'tft-bbs.net', ] 

Can you tell me whether I have that syntax correct?  I apologise for what are probably irritating, basic configuration questions.  However, being totally blind and having to work by memorising parts of the documentation at a time and then putting them into the correct configuration files, I think it's highly likely that I've overlooked or misunderstood something.

When I use the command:

sudo /usr/share/mailman/bin/newlist -e 'tft-bbs.com' mac-access

I am prompted for the administrator's E-Mail address and initial list password.

Once those are entered, I'm getting an illegal list name error, which looks like:

Illegal list name mac-access at mail

I'm puzzled as to what I've done wrong, but it's probably obvious to more experienced administrators.

If you would point me to my error, or suggest possible causes I would be extremely grateful.

I fully intend to contribute to this most worth while project with a financial donation as soon as I can when we're up and running.  This kind of work deserves our support, since it's at the heart of what we use on the Internet every single day.

Many thanks in advance for any assistance.

Gordon Smith





From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov 15 04:31:16 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 19:31:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MailMan Configuration under Apple OS X Server
	10.6.2
In-Reply-To: <DC01C17A-1C3B-48EC-A076-E33E4165F7CF@tft-bbs.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC195200911141931160984a2ca89a8@msapiro>

First, a big CAVEAT. You are apparently dealing with Apple's Mac OS X
server port of Mailman. There are unknown differences between that and
the Mailman with which most of us on this list are familiar.


Gordon Smith wrote:
>
>I need to host lists in a number of virtual domains and I'm a little unclear as to how to proceed beyond the basic configuration as I'm getting errors.
>
>So, to try and explain.  My server's fully qualified domain name is mail.tft-bbs.co.uk and I need to host lists, as I said, in virtual domains.
>
>So, I modified the paths, correctly I think, to point to the virtual alias and Mailman files so that Mailman and Postfix would interact.
>
>First, I used the following commands in Apple's Terminal to view the Postfix virtual maps file:
>
>sudo /usr/sbin/postconf virtual_alias_maps
>
>Then, I did the following to add the path to the virtual Mailman file:
>
>sudo /usr/sbin/postconf -e virtual_alias_maps='hash:/etc/postfix/virtual_users, hash:/var/mailman/data/virtual-mailman'
>
>Then, I manually edited:
>
>/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
>
>Python script to add the virtual domains in the Postfix_style variable, as follows:
>
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = '<mail.tft-bbs.co.uk>'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = '<mail.tft-bbs.co.uk>'


These should have no angle brackets. I.e.

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.tft-bbs.co.uk'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mail.tft-bbs.co.uk'


>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'cecimac.org', 'dane-trethowan.net', 'gordon-smith.me.uk', 'small-world-radio.net', 'softcon.com', 'tft-bbs.com', 'tft-bbs.org', 'tft-bbs.org.uk', 'tft-bbs.net', ] 


This is correct.


>Can you tell me whether I have that syntax correct?  I apologise for what are probably irritating, basic configuration questions.  However, being totally blind and having to work by memorising parts of the documentation at a time and then putting them into the correct configuration files, I think it's highly likely that I've overlooked or misunderstood something.
>
>When I use the command:
>
>sudo /usr/share/mailman/bin/newlist -e 'tft-bbs.com' mac-access
>
>I am prompted for the administrator's E-Mail address and initial list password.
>
>Once those are entered, I'm getting an illegal list name error, which looks like:
>
>Illegal list name mac-access at mail


This might be because of the '<' and '>' in the definitions of
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST, but normally those shouldn't
matter with the "-e 'tft-bbs.com'" option to newlist, so I'm not sure
what the problem is.

Are there other things in mm_cfg.py besides what you've shown as added
above?

Also, There are other problems having to do with web access to Mailman
for the virtual hosts.

If what you want is for the host in all web URLs to be
mail.tft-bbs.co.uk regardless of the email domain, then what you have
is OK, but in the normal case where each virtual domain has its own
web and email domain, in addition, for each of your virtual domains
you need a line as for this example domain

add_virtualhost('tft-bbs.com', 'tft-bbs.com')

Note that the first 'tft-bbs.com' is the host-name for web URLs and the
second 'tft-bbs.com' is the email domain. If these are the same, then
the add_virtualhost is correct, but if the web host is different, say
'www.tft-bbs.com', then that should be the first argument in the
add_virtualhost.

Also, if you don't specify a -u option to bin/newlist, the host name in
web URLs for this list will be the DEFAULT_URL_HOST host. If you do
have a correct add_virtualhost('tft-bbs.com', 'tft-bbs.com') in
mm_cfg.py, then it is sufficient for newlist to specify

sudo /usr/share/mailman/bin/newlist -u 'tft-bbs.com' mac-access

as that will set the web host and the email host will be looked up from
the add_virtualhost mapping.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mailman-owner at rx7-world.net  Sun Nov 15 05:58:33 2009
From: mailman-owner at rx7-world.net (John)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:58:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call me Don Quixote...  :-(
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911122013340015a576a831@msapiro>
References: <PC195200911122013340015a576a831@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4AFF8A79.6030607@rx7-world.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> John wrote:
> 
>> answers inline...
>>
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> John wrote:
>>>
>>>> What hasn't worked:
>>>> * My service provider claimed the info in disable messages was insufficient for
>>>> debug!?
>>>
>>> And can you post one?
>> This was around the time my provider changed the smart host pool... The
>> 64.202.189.86  IP address was in the pool & on at least 2 RBLs. The
>> 208.109.80.54 IP is in the new pool and apparently still on 1 RBL list :-(. They
>> claim they did not bounce back to my server...
> 
> 
> They aren't bouncing to your server. They are refusing to accept the
> message from your server. The fact that those IPs may be in RBLs is
> not relevant, because that would only affect delivery from them to the
> destination, and they aren't accepting the mail from you in the first
> place.
> 
> 
>> I haven't seen this since 11/10,
>> but the rx7 list email is not being delivered.  I don't understand why my other
>> lists seem to be unaffected...
> 
> 
> If it's only one list, it might have something to do with the smarthost
> not liking the particular rx7-bounces at ... envelope sender. That's
> about the only thing that's list specific except maybe list size.
> 
> 
>> ----------------------------------------
>>    List:       rx7
>>    Member:     username at aol.com
>>    Action:     Subscription disabled.
>>    Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.
>>
>>
>> The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
>>
>> Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
>> mailman at rx7-world.net.
> 
> 
> You have not included the headers of this notification message part ,
> but presumably it came from your own MTA.
> 
> 
>> <username at sc.rr.com>:
>> 64.202.189.86 failed after I sent the message.
>> Remote host said: 554 Message refused.
>>
>> 	long list of similar msgs removed...
>>
>> <username at aol.com>:
>> 208.109.80.54 failed after I sent the message.
>> Remote host said: 554 Message refused.
>> ----------------------------------------

I found a detailed bounce in my collection from before I entered a support
ticket about RBLs at the beginning of Oct.
=========================================
k2smtpout05-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<user at takas.lt>:
212.59.31.115 does not like recipient.
Remote host said: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [64.202.189.56]
blocked using dnsbl-1.uceprotect.net; IP 64.202.189.56 is UCEPROTECT-Level 1
listed. See http://www.uceprotect.net/rblcheck.php?ipr=64.202.189.56
Giving up on 212.59.31.115.
=========================================
Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I smell a cover-up... Soon after the support
ticket, I started receiving the summarized failures and bounces from the smart
host...  :-/    It's a lot easier to deny an email delivery problem if you
return a vague bounce message instead of the real thing...

> And as you know, those IPs are servers in the secureserver.net domain
> which presumably are the smarthost through which you're relaying and
> it is these servers that are refusing to accept the message from you.
> 
> How do you authenticate to these servers? Why should they accept and
> relay your mail?

hmmm ... 'cause they accept and relay everything else from the server? :-P  (ya
gotta have some fun when things go wrong or else you'll go nuts. ;-) )

>>
>>> Does the smtp log say it delivered the post to the appropriate number
>>> of recipients?
>> it's hard to say... there is no single entry for the problem list that has the
>> correct number (446 less a few nomail).
> 
> 
> What are the recipient numbers in the entry(s) for the message-id of a
> post?

If VERP is on won't there only be 1 recipient/message-id, but multiple
message-ids/post to Non-digest members? I also can't find a match to the
received message IDs.  It looks like digest is different, 2 entries totaling 262
"recips"...

For now, I'm going to assume (ouch) that it's my provider's problem.  Thanks for
all for the patience and answers. If nothing else, I learned more about the
workings of Mailman & qmail.  :-D    I may try shutting off the RFC headers on
the lists and see if that changes anything...

John

From rclemings at gmail.com  Sun Nov 15 20:31:57 2009
From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:31:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Facebook invite not rejected
Message-ID: <b79d6a850911151131j3b606012vb54a2162d6fd02c1@mail.gmail.com>

A Facebook invite from invite+zrdoovf=cerf at facebookmail.com got posted
to two of our lists last night and I can't figure out why it wasn't
rejected. It came from a user who was subscribed to both lists, but at
a gmail address. I suspect he gave Facebook access to his address book
but as I said that facebookmail.com address is not a subscriber.

generic_nonmember_action is reject
forward_auto_discards is yes
accept_these_nonmembers. hold_these_nonmembers,
reject_these_nonmembers and discard_these_nonmembers are all empty

but ... (listname masked here, the rest is accurate)

/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/logs/post:20404:Nov 15 01:12:06
2009 (13887) post to listname-talk from
invite+zrdoozozoigf at facebookmail.com, size=3308,
message-id=<7f9ef7cb2a8b3dff5957c17d3bb09ace at 10.16.160.197>, success
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/logs/post:20405:Nov 15 01:12:07
2009 (13887) post to listname-teach from
invite+zrdoovf=cerf at facebookmail.com, size=3332,
message-id=<708a4ec208c585f01494cd7393f0b309 at 10.16.160.197>, success

Nothing in the other logs (except smtp) and nothing fishy in the
headers that I can see.

I'm mystified. Any ideas? These things have always been rejected before ...

(Yes, I know, cPanel ... sigh.)

rac

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov 15 21:09:14 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:09:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Facebook invite not rejected
In-Reply-To: <b79d6a850911151131j3b606012vb54a2162d6fd02c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111512091407180418ef5c@msapiro>

Russell Clemings wrote:

>A Facebook invite from invite+zrdoovf=cerf at facebookmail.com got posted
>to two of our lists last night and I can't figure out why it wasn't
>rejected. It came from a user who was subscribed to both lists, but at
>a gmail address. I suspect he gave Facebook access to his address book
>but as I said that facebookmail.com address is not a subscriber.
>
>generic_nonmember_action is reject
>forward_auto_discards is yes
>accept_these_nonmembers. hold_these_nonmembers,
>reject_these_nonmembers and discard_these_nonmembers are all empty
>
>but ... (listname masked here, the rest is accurate)
>
>/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/logs/post:20404:Nov 15 01:12:06
>2009 (13887) post to listname-talk from
>invite+zrdoozozoigf at facebookmail.com, size=3308,
>message-id=<7f9ef7cb2a8b3dff5957c17d3bb09ace at 10.16.160.197>, success
>/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/logs/post:20405:Nov 15 01:12:07
>2009 (13887) post to listname-teach from
>invite+zrdoovf=cerf at facebookmail.com, size=3332,
>message-id=<708a4ec208c585f01494cd7393f0b309 at 10.16.160.197>, success
>
>Nothing in the other logs (except smtp) and nothing fishy in the
>headers that I can see.


The sender reported in the post log messages above comes from either
the From: header or possibly the Sender: header (if
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is set true in mm_cfg.py) of the incoming message.

However, membership tests will test all of the From: header, the
envelope sender (unix From_ or Return-Path:), the Reply-To: header and
the Sender: header, and if any of these contains a member address, the
post is deemed to be from a member.

If the original Reply-To: is stripped by the list, it is lost, but the
other information is in the message in the
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox/ file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rclemings at gmail.com  Sun Nov 15 21:58:35 2009
From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:58:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Facebook invite not rejected
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009111512091407180418ef5c@msapiro>
References: <b79d6a850911151131j3b606012vb54a2162d6fd02c1@mail.gmail.com> 
	<PC1952009111512091407180418ef5c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <b79d6a850911151258m3505d2c6va56c035863a8df02@mail.gmail.com>

That looks like it. There's nothing like that in the mbox file but I
just sent an invite from my Facebook page to myself at a different
address and the "reply to" address was the one attached to my page. So
I guess Facebook uses its own address for "from" and the user's
address for "reply to." Makes sense for them I guess. Annoys me.

thx

rac


On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Russell Clemings wrote:
>
>>A Facebook invite from invite+zrdoovf=cerf at facebookmail.com got posted
>>to two of our lists last night and I can't figure out why it wasn't
>>rejected. It came from a user who was subscribed to both lists, but at
>>a gmail address. I suspect he gave Facebook access to his address book
>>but as I said that facebookmail.com address is not a subscriber.
>>
>>generic_nonmember_action is reject
>>forward_auto_discards is yes
>>accept_these_nonmembers. hold_these_nonmembers,
>>reject_these_nonmembers and discard_these_nonmembers are all empty
>>
>>but ... (listname masked here, the rest is accurate)
>>
>>/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/logs/post:20404:Nov 15 01:12:06
>>2009 (13887) post to listname-talk from
>>invite+zrdoozozoigf at facebookmail.com, size=3308,
>>message-id=<7f9ef7cb2a8b3dff5957c17d3bb09ace at 10.16.160.197>, success
>>/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/logs/post:20405:Nov 15 01:12:07
>>2009 (13887) post to listname-teach from
>>invite+zrdoovf=cerf at facebookmail.com, size=3332,
>>message-id=<708a4ec208c585f01494cd7393f0b309 at 10.16.160.197>, success
>>
>>Nothing in the other logs (except smtp) and nothing fishy in the
>>headers that I can see.
>
>
> The sender reported in the post log messages above comes from either
> the From: header or possibly the Sender: header (if
> USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is set true in mm_cfg.py) of the incoming message.
>
> However, membership tests will test all of the From: header, the
> envelope sender (unix From_ or Return-Path:), the Reply-To: header and
> the Sender: header, and if any of these contains a member address, the
> post is deemed to be from a member.
>
> If the original Reply-To: is stripped by the list, it is lost, but the
> other information is in the message in the
> archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox/ file.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov 15 22:07:20 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:07:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call me Don Quixote...  :-(
In-Reply-To: <4AFF8A79.6030607@rx7-world.net>
Message-ID: <PC19520091115130720051545963a97@msapiro>

John wrote:
>
>I found a detailed bounce in my collection from before I entered a support
>ticket about RBLs at the beginning of Oct.
>=========================================
>k2smtpout05-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net.
>I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
>This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
>
><user at takas.lt>:
>212.59.31.115 does not like recipient.
>Remote host said: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [64.202.189.56]
>blocked using dnsbl-1.uceprotect.net; IP 64.202.189.56 is UCEPROTECT-Level 1
>listed. See http://www.uceprotect.net/rblcheck.php?ipr=64.202.189.56
>Giving up on 212.59.31.115.
>=========================================
>Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I smell a cover-up... Soon after the support
>ticket, I started receiving the summarized failures and bounces from the smart
>host...  :-/    It's a lot easier to deny an email delivery problem if you
>return a vague bounce message instead of the real thing...


It is possible that the smarthost started using some kind of look-ahead
address verification during incoming SMTP. I.e. they check that the
message is deliverable downstream before accepting it from you and if
it's not, return a generic "554 Message refused."

Note that in the case of the above, they accepted the message from you
and then later sent an email reporting the delivery failure.

In the case of the "554 Message refused." reports you quoted earlier,
they were refusing to accept the message during SMTP from you.


>> How do you authenticate to these servers? Why should they accept and
>> relay your mail?
>
>hmmm ... 'cause they accept and relay everything else from the server? :-P  (ya
>gotta have some fun when things go wrong or else you'll go nuts. ;-) )


But why? If I attempt to connect to port 25 on the server at
208.109.80.54, it immediatly closes the connection without sending a
greeting. Why doesn't it do this to you? There are lots of
possibilities, e.g.

- your IP is a known 'good guy' in it's network
- you are connecting to some other port
- you are connecting via SSL with a certificate it recognizes as a
customer
- other possibilities

I ask why, because the answer might have some bearing on the problem
we're trying to understand/solve.


>>>
>>>> Does the smtp log say it delivered the post to the appropriate number
>>>> of recipients?
>>> it's hard to say... there is no single entry for the problem list that has the
>>> correct number (446 less a few nomail).
>> 
>> 
>> What are the recipient numbers in the entry(s) for the message-id of a
>> post?
>
>If VERP is on won't there only be 1 recipient/message-id, but multiple
>message-ids/post to Non-digest members? I also can't find a match to the
>received message IDs.  It looks like digest is different, 2 entries totaling 262
>"recips"...


The individual (non-digest) messages are all the same message with the
original message-id. The message may be delivered to the MTA by the
SMTPDirect.py module in multiple transactions or even (with VERP) in
transactions with a single recipient and a unique envelope sender, but
there is still only one smtp log entry written by Mailman with the
total number of recipients delivered to the MTA.

The message-id in a message received from the list should be logged in
the smtp log.

Two entries per digest with Mailman generated message-ids is correct.
one entry is for the plain format digest and one for the MIME format
digest. These are separate messages with distinct contents, thus two
messages. These may have been delivered to the MTA in multiple
transactions or VERPed, but there are still only one log entry for the
plain digest and one for the MIME digest.


>For now, I'm going to assume (ouch) that it's my provider's problem.  Thanks for
>all for the patience and answers. If nothing else, I learned more about the
>workings of Mailman & qmail.  :-D    I may try shutting off the RFC headers on
>the lists and see if that changes anything...


There is some reason why this only affects one list. The question is
why does the smarthost see mail from this list differently? Does the
smarthost rate-limit you? I.e. does it reject all but the first 300
recipients in an hour or something like that?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov 15 22:18:02 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:18:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Facebook invite not rejected
In-Reply-To: <b79d6a850911151258m3505d2c6va56c035863a8df02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520091115131802015620905ade@msapiro>

Russell Clemings wrote:

>That looks like it. There's nothing like that in the mbox file but I
>just sent an invite from my Facebook page to myself at a different
>address and the "reply to" address was the one attached to my page. So
>I guess Facebook uses its own address for "from" and the user's
>address for "reply to." Makes sense for them I guess. Annoys me.


If you want, you can not recognize member posts based on Reply-To:

In Defaults.py is the line

SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')

which means check From:, Unix from, Reply-To: and Sender in that order
when testing membership. If you override this by putting

SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None,, 'sender')

in mm_cfg.py and restart Mailman, your lists will no longer check
Reply-To: for member addresses.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Sun Nov 15 23:05:51 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:05:51 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Facebook invite not rejected
In-Reply-To: <PC19520091115131802015620905ade@msapiro>
References: <b79d6a850911151258m3505d2c6va56c035863a8df02@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC19520091115131802015620905ade@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20091115220551.GH24624@amyl.org.uk>

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 01:18:02PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> In Defaults.py is the line
> 
> SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')
> 
> which means check From:, Unix from, Reply-To: and Sender in that order
> when testing membership. If you override this by putting
> 
> SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None,, 'sender')

Possibly without the second comma, after 'None'.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-October/063566.html
&c suggests that (just the one comma) to be the case.

-- 
"In matters of grave importance, style, not sincerity, is the vital
thing"
    -- The Importance of Being Earnest

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov 15 23:36:09 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:36:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Facebook invite not rejected
In-Reply-To: <20091115220551.GH24624@amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC195200911151436090078459638d7@msapiro>

Adam McGreggor wrote:

>On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 01:18:02PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None,, 'sender')
>
>Possibly without the second comma, after 'None'.

Absolutely without the extra comma. My mistake. Thanks for noticing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn  Mon Nov 16 04:36:35 2009
From: hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn (Hien HUYNH HUU)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:36:35 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009111201141608908118694a@msapiro>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072FFF87D@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<PC1952009111201141608908118694a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A731820730000CC@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>

Hi Mark, 
   I wonder why the smtp log just show 1 recips why I wish It show numbers :

Nov 16 08:24:34 2009 (2874) <mailman.305.1258334667.21888.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.241 seconds
Nov 16 08:24:35 2009 (21892) <mailman.309.1258334667.21888.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.281 seconds
Nov 16 08:24:35 2009 (21892) <mailman.292.1258334666.21888.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.271 seconds
Nov 16 08:24:35 2009 (21892) <mailman.295.1258334666.21888.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.213 seconds
Nov 16 08:24:36 2009 (21892) <mailman.307.1258334667.21888.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.285 seconds
Nov 16 08:25:00 2009 (2874) <mailman.87.1258334698.2870.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.256 seconds
Nov 16 08:25:00 2009 (21892) <mailman.89.1258334698.2870.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.306 seconds
Nov 16 08:25:00 2009 (2874) <mailman.90.1258334698.2870.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.332 seconds
Nov 16 08:25:00 2009 (21892) <mailman.91.1258334698.2870.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.381 seconds
Nov 16 08:25:01 2009 (2874) <mailman.92.1258334698.2870.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.407 seconds
Nov 16 08:25:01 2009 (21892) <mailman.93.1258334698.2870.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.425 seconds
Nov 16 08:25:01 2009 (2874) <mailman.94.1258334698.2870.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.320 seconds
 
  Up to now, I can't count how many emails mailman inject to qmail queue at the same time although I set these options in Mailman :

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500
SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 0
SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail'                   ## I wonder can I use qmail-inject ?
QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME = hours(20)
QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = minutes(120)
QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 50000
   
  How can we know the statistics of mailman for injecting these mails to qmail?
  Best regards,
  Huu Hien

 
       

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:14 PM
To: Hien HUYNH HUU; Carl Zwanzig
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

>  These 2 log lines are generated when a post was sent successful to everyone (I just tail 2 last lines). May be something wrongs ? I'm using Mailman-2.1.12.


Try looking at the whole log or grepping it for the message id of your
post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov 16 05:13:54 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:13:54 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A731820730000CC@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072FFF87D@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<PC1952009111201141608908118694a@msapiro>
	<B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A731820730000CC@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <87r5rzxg1p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Hien HUYNH HUU writes:
 > Hi Mark, 
 >    I wonder why the smtp log just show 1 recips why I wish It show numbers :

Because each SMTP connection is only sending to one recipient, that's
why.  If you are using VERP or personalized messages, the messages
really are different as far as the MTA is concerned, and thus each one
must be sent separately.

For personalized messages, this is true at the Mailman stage, and
you'll have to choose: multiple recipients per transaction, or
personalization.  You can't have both.

For VERP, it may be possible to configure Mailman *without* VERP, and
have the MTA do VERP itself.  However, I don't know if you'll be able
to take advantage of Mailman's VERP features (such as for bounce
processing) in that case.  You may need to have a separate system take
care of those features at the MTA level.


From hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn  Mon Nov 16 05:24:55 2009
From: hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn (Hien HUYNH HUU)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:24:55 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <87r5rzxg1p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072FFF87D@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<PC1952009111201141608908118694a@msapiro>
	<B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A731820730000CC@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<87r5rzxg1p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182073000125@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>

Hi Stephen,

Wow , may be this is my problem . Could you explain me more ? How can I chose multiple recipients per transaction rather than 1 recipients per transaction as now ? ( I see that I  set VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = No now) .
 
 Summary, I wish the mail list  will :
    +  inject messages to MTA (QMAIL) faster and faster .
    + I can log how many mails I can inject to MTA at the same time.
 Best regards,
 Huu Hien


-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org] 
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 11:14 AM
To: Hien HUYNH HUU
Cc: Mark Sapiro; Carl Zwanzig; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction

Hien HUYNH HUU writes:
 > Hi Mark, 
 >    I wonder why the smtp log just show 1 recips why I wish It show numbers :

Because each SMTP connection is only sending to one recipient, that's
why.  If you are using VERP or personalized messages, the messages
really are different as far as the MTA is concerned, and thus each one
must be sent separately.

For personalized messages, this is true at the Mailman stage, and
you'll have to choose: multiple recipients per transaction, or
personalization.  You can't have both.

For VERP, it may be possible to configure Mailman *without* VERP, and
have the MTA do VERP itself.  However, I don't know if you'll be able
to take advantage of Mailman's VERP features (such as for bounce
processing) in that case.  You may need to have a separate system take
care of those features at the MTA level.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov 16 07:10:48 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:10:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182073000125@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072FFF87D@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<PC1952009111201141608908118694a@msapiro>
	<B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A731820730000CC@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<87r5rzxg1p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182073000125@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <87skcff193.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Hien HUYNH HUU writes:

 > Wow , may be this is my problem . Could you explain me more ?

I'm sorry, I don't really have time to go back and look at all the
information right now.  The issues are pretty well explained in
several FAQs (unfortunately there are a few relevant ones, but I think
you get all of them if you search for "performance").


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Nov 16 09:14:43 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:14:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <87skcff193.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182072FFF87D@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<PC1952009111201141608908118694a@msapiro>
	<B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A731820730000CC@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<87r5rzxg1p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182073000125@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<87skcff193.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4349551E-1BED-4E93-AD05-2E5EA5721F11@shub-internet.org>

On Nov 16, 2009, at 12:10 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> Hien HUYNH HUU writes:
> 
>> Wow , may be this is my problem . Could you explain me more ?
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't really have time to go back and look at all the
> information right now.  The issues are pretty well explained in
> several FAQs (unfortunately there are a few relevant ones, but I think
> you get all of them if you search for "performance").

If you enable any kind of personalization, then you'll get individual messages being delivered by Mailman to the MTA.  This includes footers with a user-specific string to tell them what their particular link is to unsubscribe from the list, etc....

You'll have to disable all types of personalization and VERP to get more than one recipient per message being sent to the MTA.  And qmail is not an ideal MTA for maximum performance on a mailing list -- I can run rings around it with postfix.

--
Brad Knowles <bradknowles at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 16 16:25:21 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 07:25:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A731820730000CC@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <PC195200911160725210562f87b6807@msapiro>

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

>   I wonder why the smtp log just show 1 recips why I wish It show numbers :
>
>Nov 16 08:24:34 2009 (2874) <mailman.305.1258334667.21888.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.241 seconds
>Nov 16 08:24:35 2009 (21892) <mailman.309.1258334667.21888.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.281 seconds
>Nov 16 08:24:35 2009 (21892) <mailman.292.1258334666.21888.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.271 seconds
>Nov 16 08:24:35 2009 (21892) <mailman.295.1258334666.21888.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.213 seconds
>Nov 16 08:24:36 2009 (21892) <mailman.307.1258334667.21888.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.285 seconds
>Nov 16 08:25:00 2009 (2874) <mailman.87.1258334698.2870.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.256 seconds
>Nov 16 08:25:00 2009 (21892) <mailman.89.1258334698.2870.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.306 seconds
>Nov 16 08:25:00 2009 (2874) <mailman.90.1258334698.2870.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.332 seconds
>Nov 16 08:25:00 2009 (21892) <mailman.91.1258334698.2870.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.381 seconds
>Nov 16 08:25:01 2009 (2874) <mailman.92.1258334698.2870.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.407 seconds
>Nov 16 08:25:01 2009 (21892) <mailman.93.1258334698.2870.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.425 seconds
>Nov 16 08:25:01 2009 (2874) <mailman.94.1258334698.2870.listname at maillist.com> smtp to listname for 1 recips, completed in 0.320 seconds


If you have standard GNU Mailman, none of the above messages is a post.
Every one of them is some kind of Mailman generated notice (maybe from
BounceRunner, I'm guessing). You can tell because each has a Mailman
generated message id. It looks like you have two OutgoingRunner
processes with PIDs 2874 and 21892. Is this intentional? Some of those
messages were generated by PID 2870 and some by PID 21888. What are
these processes?

It also seems that you may have two sets of Mailman qrunners running
which were started at different times, thus not sliced. This is bad.
See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/_4A9>.

Stephen and Brad's replies notwithstanding, SMTPDirect.py, which is the
module that writes the above messages, writes only one such log
message for each processed queue entry, regardless of the number of
SMTP transactions used to deliver the message to the MTA.

Even if the message is personalized and/or VERPed so that SMTPDirect
deliveres one slightly different message to each recipient, it still
only writes one log message after completing the entire delivery to
all recipients.

What is in all your Mailman logs. Particularly, smtp-failure and bounce?


>  Up to now, I can't count how many emails mailman inject to qmail queue at the same time although I set these options in Mailman :


Mailman does not inject messages into qmail's queue. Mailman deliveres
messages by SMTP to qmail and qmail queues them. This may be a subtle
distinction, but if you're trying to measure things, it helps to
understand what you're measuring.


>SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500
>SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 0
>SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail'                   ## I wonder can I use qmail-inject ?


The above setting can be anything you want because Mailman doesn't use
it unless you set DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail', but DO NOT DO THAT -
you have been warned.


>QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME = hours(20)
>QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = minutes(120)
>QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 50000


The above three settings are Mailman 2.0.x settings that have no
relevance in Mailman 2.1.x


>  How can we know the statistics of mailman for injecting these mails to qmail?


I don't know why you are not seeing the appropriate log message. If you
receive a post from the list, grep Mailman's log files for its
message-id and see what you find.

Look in Mailman's 'post' log for messages like

Nov 15 18:09:38 2009 (2392) post to LIST from user at example.com,
size=2263,
message-id=<2A01C490-CDA1-4BD4-A10C-1158731FDF5D at example.com>, success

and then look for the same message-id in the smtp log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 16 17:35:20 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:35:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <87r5rzxg1p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC19520091116083520007843ce7762@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Hien HUYNH HUU writes:
> > Hi Mark, 
> >    I wonder why the smtp log just show 1 recips why I wish It show numbers :
>
>Because each SMTP connection is only sending to one recipient, that's
>why.  If you are using VERP or personalized messages, the messages
>really are different as far as the MTA is concerned, and thus each one
>must be sent separately.


But even though SMTPDirect.py sends a separate message in a separate
SMTP transaction for each recipient, it still only writes one summary
log message for the entire batch.


>For personalized messages, this is true at the Mailman stage, and
>you'll have to choose: multiple recipients per transaction, or
>personalization.  You can't have both.
>
>For VERP, it may be possible to configure Mailman *without* VERP, and
>have the MTA do VERP itself.  However, I don't know if you'll be able
>to take advantage of Mailman's VERP features (such as for bounce
>processing) in that case.  You may need to have a separate system take
>care of those features at the MTA level.


The regexp used to extract the recipient local-part and domain from the
VERPed bounce recipient is set in Defaults.py as VERP_REGEXP and can
be overridden in mm_cfg.py if necessary to accommodate the MTA's VERP
format. So it should be possible to integrate MTA VERP with Mailman's
bounce processing with any MTA that supports VERP.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 16 17:43:19 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:43:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182073000125@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <PC19520091116084319057843ce7955@msapiro>

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:
>
> Summary, I wish the mail list  will :
>    +  inject messages to MTA (QMAIL) faster and faster .
>    + I can log how many mails I can inject to MTA at the same time.


At the risk of being overly pedantic and redundant, Mailman doesn't
'inject' messages. It delivers them via SMTP, and the rate is pretty
much entirely determined by the MTA's response delays during SMTP.
I.e. making it faster is an MTA tuning/configuration issue, not a
Mailman issue.

Mailman's SMTPDirect.py writes ONE log message with the number of
recipients and time when it finishes it's delivery to the MTA of all
recipients. I don't know why you are unable to find this message in
Mailman's SMTP log, but it should be there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mailman-owner at rx7-world.net  Mon Nov 16 20:51:35 2009
From: mailman-owner at rx7-world.net (John)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:51:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call me Don Quixote...  :-(
In-Reply-To: <PC19520091115130720051545963a97@msapiro>
References: <PC19520091115130720051545963a97@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B01AD47.6000404@rx7-world.net>

This morning I checked the smtp log to see if I could find a match to my daily
ping. I did find it today, 1 entry for 156 members. And I got 156 summarized
bounces with 554 errors.  :-/  I'm going to try renaming the list or creating a
new one with the same members to see what happens...

John

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>>>>> Does the smtp log say it delivered the post to the appropriate number
>>>>> of recipients?
>>>> it's hard to say... there is no single entry for the problem list that has the
>>>> correct number (446 less a few nomail).
>>>
>>> What are the recipient numbers in the entry(s) for the message-id of a
>>> post?
>> If VERP is on won't there only be 1 recipient/message-id, but multiple
>> message-ids/post to Non-digest members? I also can't find a match to the
>> received message IDs.  It looks like digest is different, 2 entries totaling 262
>> "recips"...
> 
> 
> The individual (non-digest) messages are all the same message with the
> original message-id. The message may be delivered to the MTA by the
> SMTPDirect.py module in multiple transactions or even (with VERP) in
> transactions with a single recipient and a unique envelope sender, but
> there is still only one smtp log entry written by Mailman with the
> total number of recipients delivered to the MTA.
> 
> The message-id in a message received from the list should be logged in
> the smtp log.
> 
> Two entries per digest with Mailman generated message-ids is correct.
> one entry is for the plain format digest and one for the MIME format
> digest. These are separate messages with distinct contents, thus two
> messages. These may have been delivered to the MTA in multiple
> transactions or VERPed, but there are still only one log entry for the
> plain digest and one for the MIME digest.
> 
> 
>> For now, I'm going to assume (ouch) that it's my provider's problem.  Thanks for
>> all for the patience and answers. If nothing else, I learned more about the
>> workings of Mailman & qmail.  :-D    I may try shutting off the RFC headers on
>> the lists and see if that changes anything...
> 
> 
> There is some reason why this only affects one list. The question is
> why does the smarthost see mail from this list differently? Does the
> smarthost rate-limit you? I.e. does it reject all but the first 300
> recipients in an hour or something like that?
> 


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 16 22:02:07 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:02:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call me Don Quixote...  :-(
In-Reply-To: <4B01AD47.6000404@rx7-world.net>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111613020703755266e73e@msapiro>

John wrote:

>This morning I checked the smtp log to see if I could find a match to my daily
>ping. I did find it today, 1 entry for 156 members. And I got 156 summarized
>bounces with 554 errors.  :-/  I'm going to try renaming the list or creating a
>new one with the same members to see what happens...


Do I understand correctly that you have a local MTA that uses the
smarthost as a relay, and Mailman delivers to the local MTA? If so, is
there anything interesting in the MTA's logs?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From troy.campbell at fedex.com  Tue Nov 17 01:44:09 2009
From: troy.campbell at fedex.com (Troy Campbell)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:44:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] buildup of "attachment" files...
Message-ID: <4B01F1D9.5020500@fedex.com>

On one mailing list I'm seeing alot of attachment files building up
in the "archive" directory:

# pwd
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private
# ls listname*
listname:
attachments  index.html

listname.mbox:

Looking down a couple directory levels in "attachements":
# pwd
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<listname>/attachments/20091116/4763b4e9
# file *
attachment.obj: gzip compressed data, was "ErrorReport.21234.txt", from 
Unix, last modified: Mon Nov 16 11:03:59 2009
[root at albers 4763b4e9]# ls
attachment.obj

Basically there are many directories in the "attachments"
directory that go from "20070808" to "20091116".

I'm running 2.1.9.  I just need to know how to cleanup and turnoff
if possible.

Thanks!
Troy





From hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn  Tue Nov 17 02:56:02 2009
From: hien.hh at sbsc.com.vn (Hien HUYNH HUU)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:56:02 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <PC19520091116084319057843ce7955@msapiro>
References: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A73182073000125@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
	<PC19520091116084319057843ce7955@msapiro>
Message-ID: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A7318207300050A@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALL .
   You, all you , help me very much , I want to say thank you for all.
   Now I detect my problem when using mailman and qmail . It's Personalize setting  , and I change to use batch mode sending (personalized=0).
   It works perfect just having a small problem : It attached a text file (as footer, but I don't use footer so It's emty) . Could I leave this attachment , don't send It to users?
   Best regards,
   Huu Hien

  



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 11:43 PM
To: Hien HUYNH HUU; Stephen J. Turnbull
Cc: Carl Zwanzig; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:
>
> Summary, I wish the mail list  will :
>    +  inject messages to MTA (QMAIL) faster and faster .
>    + I can log how many mails I can inject to MTA at the same time.


At the risk of being overly pedantic and redundant, Mailman doesn't
'inject' messages. It delivers them via SMTP, and the rate is pretty
much entirely determined by the MTA's response delays during SMTP.
I.e. making it faster is an MTA tuning/configuration issue, not a
Mailman issue.

Mailman's SMTPDirect.py writes ONE log message with the number of
recipients and time when it finishes it's delivery to the MTA of all
recipients. I don't know why you are unable to find this message in
Mailman's SMTP log, but it should be there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kassem2k at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 17 01:46:14 2009
From: kassem2k at yahoo.com (Abdelmajid Kassem)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:46:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please help
Message-ID: <475624.62050.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello Dear friend:

We are a nonprofit organization and our website is www.hc-mambd.org. We are hosting this site with a friend who has a hosting company. However, to my knowledge, he does not support any maling lists which we need.

I have another website hosted by justhost.com and they support the mailing lists. My idea is to put the first site in the second's account which I did and create my mailing list. However, when I created the mailing list (info at hc-mambd.org) and want to add the members (Membership Management), it tells me this:
-----------------------------------------

No such list info_hc-mambd.orgThere currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman
            mailing lists on hc-mambd.org.To visit the administrators configuration page for an
        unadvertised list, open a URL similar to this one, but with a '/' and
        the right list name appended.  If you have the proper authority,
        you can also create a new mailing list.

        General list information can be found at the mailing list overview page.(Send questions and comments to mailman at hc-mambd.org.)-------------------------------------------

Can you PLEASE help me create my list (info at hc-mambd.org) and add members to it?

Thank you,
Dr. Kassem.







      

From verdi at shore2shore.co.za  Mon Nov 16 12:50:17 2009
From: verdi at shore2shore.co.za (Verdi Ras)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:50:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cant send emails
Message-ID: <5BC7435E82BB428AB9A3379DB3AD606A@acer49f96255ba>

Hi I can't send an email to my list. It worked well until last week 
 
I am the administrator. When I send from outlook it does not notify me that
I need to moderate. When I go to mailman for moderation pending, it is
there, as soon as I accept it it disappears
 
Is there a solution
 
Regards
 
Verdi Ras

From jerry at nrdx.com  Mon Nov 16 22:18:37 2009
From: jerry at nrdx.com (Jerry Bell)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:18:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing non-subscribers to submit messages not
	working
Message-ID: <4B01C1AD.9040006@nrdx.com>

I have been using mailman for a mailing list where non-subscribers are 
permitted to send messages, but those messages are moderated using 
emergency moderation.  After a recent upgrade, this stopped working.  
Now, I get a message:
    
        Reason: Non-members are not allowed to post messages to this list.


I am running 2.1.12.cp3.  I do not know what version I was running 
previously.  There does not appear to be a setting to allow 
non-subscribers to post.

Is there a way to re-enable non-subscribers to send messages to the list?

Thanks,

Jerry

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 17 03:23:59 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:23:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] buildup of "attachment" files...
In-Reply-To: <4B01F1D9.5020500@fedex.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111618235907815266e908@msapiro>

Troy Campbell wrote:

>On one mailing list I'm seeing alot of attachment files building up
>in the "archive" directory:
[...]
>
>Basically there are many directories in the "attachments"
>directory that go from "20070808" to "20091116".
>
>I'm running 2.1.9.  I just need to know how to cleanup and turnoff
>if possible.


It is Scrubber.py that saves these. Depending on settings, you may get
one or two copies of each attachment which is either not text/plain or
text/plain with an unknown character set.

If the list's Non-digest options -> scrub-nondigest is Yes, you will
get one saved attachment when the attachment is removed from the
message and replaced by a link to the saved attachment. Otherwise, you
get two. One when the attachment is scrubbed for the archive and one
when the attachment is scrubbed from the plain format digest.

You can avoid almost all of this by removing all non-plain text with
content filtering.

If you don't remove them with content filtering, you can avoid the
'digest copies' by setting Digest options -> digestable to No. You can
avoid the 'archive copies' by turning off archiving for the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 17 03:30:36 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:30:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction
In-Reply-To: <B77164F11BD5FB4D89898C1B497A7318207300050A@mail-srv.sbsc.com.vn>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111618303608595266e93f@msapiro>

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:
>   It works perfect just having a small problem : It attached a text file (as footer, but I don't use footer so It's emty) . Could I leave this attachment , don't send It to users?


If Mailman is attaching an empty footer to the message, msg_footer is
not empty. It probably contains some white space character(s).

Either select all of the msg_footer box in the web interface and delete
it and submit changes or set

msg_footer = ''

with bin/config_list

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 17 03:36:25 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:36:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cant send emails
In-Reply-To: <5BC7435E82BB428AB9A3379DB3AD606A@acer49f96255ba>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111618362501095266e646@msapiro>

Verdi Ras wrote:

>Hi I can't send an email to my list. It worked well until last week 
> 
>I am the administrator. When I send from outlook it does not notify me that
>I need to moderate. When I go to mailman for moderation pending, it is
>there, as soon as I accept it it disappears


Possibly, you are not getting a need to moderate notice because General
Options -> admin_immed_notify is No, or possibly the entire issue is
that Mailman's OutgoingRunner is not running and messages are just
queued in Mailman's out queue and not sent.

If this is your Mailman installation, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>. If it is hosted, contact the host.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 17 03:39:58 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:39:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing non-subscribers to submit messages
	notworking
In-Reply-To: <4B01C1AD.9040006@nrdx.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111618395804845266e7de@msapiro>

Jerry Bell wrote:

>I have been using mailman for a mailing list where non-subscribers are 
>permitted to send messages, but those messages are moderated using 
>emergency moderation.  After a recent upgrade, this stopped working.  
>Now, I get a message:
>    
>        Reason: Non-members are not allowed to post messages to this list.
>
>
>I am running 2.1.12.cp3.  I do not know what version I was running 
>previously.  There does not appear to be a setting to allow 
>non-subscribers to post.


Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> generic_nonmember_action =
Accept


If that isn't the answer, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 17 03:46:09 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:46:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please help
In-Reply-To: <475624.62050.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111618460900785266e617@msapiro>

Abdelmajid Kassem wrote:
>
>We are a nonprofit organization and our website is www.hc-mambd.org. We are hosting this site with a friend who has a hosting company. However, to my knowledge, he does not support any maling lists which we need.
>
>I have another website hosted by justhost.com and they support the mailing lists. My idea is to put the first site in the second's account which I did and create my mailing list. However, when I created the mailing list (info at hc-mambd.org) and want to add the members (Membership Management), it tells me this:
>-----------------------------------------
>
>No such list info_hc-mambd.orgThere currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman
>            mailing lists on hc-mambd.org.To visit the administrators configuration page for an
>        unadvertised list, open a URL similar to this one, but with a '/' and
>        the right list name appended.  If you have the proper authority,
>        you can also create a new mailing list.
>
>        General list information can be found at the mailing list overview page.(Send questions and comments to mailman at hc-mambd.org.)-------------------------------------------
>
>Can you PLEASE help me create my list (info at hc-mambd.org) and add members to it?


Please contact customer support at justhost.com with this issue. They
are in a much better position to help with this problem than are the
members of this list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lens_cap105 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 17 05:53:33 2009
From: lens_cap105 at yahoo.com (alex wisser)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:53:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages won't go through
Message-ID: <944586.3485.qm@web57008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I am using mailman version 2.1.11.cp3 to handle 6 mailing lists for a small community organization and am having difficulty.  Each list has approximately 200 members, subscribed through the mass subscription function on the list admin interface and everything seems to be working, but when I send a message to the list it doesn't seem to be going on to the addresses on the list.  I know this because I have put several of my own and other member's of the teams addresses on the list and we haven't gotten anything either to spam or inbox.  I have called people on the list and they haven't gotten anything either.  The messages are stored in the list archives.  I have tried a variety of options including sending them as moderated and non moderated, from the admin address, from a member address, from a non admin address.  I have gotten two messages in return.  One was a fatal bounce error from one of the member addresses and the other was an automatically
 generated reply from another list saying that I would have to belong to that list to post there. I have also created a small test list with just three addresses on it (my own) and the messages went through fine.  I have compared options on both the real lists and the test list and have found no solution.  Can anyone help me?

cheers

Alex Wisser


      __________________________________________________________________________________
Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7.
Enter now: http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 17 16:38:21 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:38:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages won't go through
In-Reply-To: <944586.3485.qm@web57008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520091117073821012555aee652@msapiro>

alex wisser wrote:

>I am using mailman version 2.1.11.cp3 to handle 6 mailing lists for a small community organization and am having difficulty.  Each list has approximately 200 members, subscribed through the mass subscription function on the list admin interface and everything seems to be working, but when I send a message to the list it doesn't seem to be going on to the addresses on the list.


Do you receive other messages from Mailman, e.g., subscription
notifications?


>I know this because I have put several of my own and other member's of the teams addresses on the list and we haven't gotten anything either to spam or inbox.  I have called people on the list and they haven't gotten anything either.  The messages are stored in the list archives.  I have tried a variety of options including sending them as moderated and non moderated, from the admin address, from a member address, from a non admin address.


If the messages are in the archive, they have gotten past all tests of
moderation, poster, etc., and they should be delivered to the list.


>I have gotten two messages in return.  One was a fatal bounce error from one of the member addresses and the other was an automatically generated reply from another list saying that I would have to belong to that list to post there.


These would seem to indicate that the list is sending something.


>I have also created a small test list with just three addresses on it (my own) and the messages went through fine.  I have compared options on both the real lists and the test list and have found no solution.  Can anyone help me?


The general troubleshooting tips are at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.
Also see <http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9> for cPanel information.

If this is your Mailman installation, the above will be useful. If it
is hosted, and you don't have shell or command access to the server,
you will probably need to contact the host.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From troy.campbell at fedex.com  Tue Nov 17 19:53:22 2009
From: troy.campbell at fedex.com (Troy Campbell)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:53:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] buildup of "attachment" files...
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009111618235907815266e908@msapiro>
References: <PC1952009111618235907815266e908@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B02F122.9020501@fedex.com>

Thanks Mark,

The list's Non-digest options -> scrub-nondigest is No.

In the Content Filtering ->"Details for pass_mime_types" field
I show the following:

multipart/mixed
multipart/alternative
text/plain

Would that be sufficient to do what you are suggesting if I
turn "Edit filter_content" on? 

Could I then remove the "attachments" subdirectories?

Regards,
Troy


on 11/16/2009 07:23 PM Mark Sapiro said the following:
> Troy Campbell wrote:
>
>   
>> On one mailing list I'm seeing alot of attachment files building up
>> in the "archive" directory:
>>     
> [...]
>   
>> Basically there are many directories in the "attachments"
>> directory that go from "20070808" to "20091116".
>>
>> I'm running 2.1.9.  I just need to know how to cleanup and turnoff
>> if possible.
>>     
>
>
> It is Scrubber.py that saves these. Depending on settings, you may get
> one or two copies of each attachment which is either not text/plain or
> text/plain with an unknown character set.
>
> If the list's Non-digest options -> scrub-nondigest is Yes, you will
> get one saved attachment when the attachment is removed from the
> message and replaced by a link to the saved attachment. Otherwise, you
> get two. One when the attachment is scrubbed for the archive and one
> when the attachment is scrubbed from the plain format digest.
>
> You can avoid almost all of this by removing all non-plain text with
> content filtering.
>
> If you don't remove them with content filtering, you can avoid the
> 'digest copies' by setting Digest options -> digestable to No. You can
> avoid the 'archive copies' by turning off archiving for the list.
>
>   

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 17 20:55:48 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:55:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] buildup of "attachment" files...
In-Reply-To: <4B02F122.9020501@fedex.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111711554803120e816728@msapiro>

Troy Campbell wrote:
>
>In the Content Filtering ->"Details for pass_mime_types" field
>I show the following:
>
>multipart/mixed
>multipart/alternative
>text/plain
>
>Would that be sufficient to do what you are suggesting if I
>turn "Edit filter_content" on? 


I suggest the following in pass_mime_types

multipart
message/rfc822
text/html
text/plain

plus collapse_alternatives and convert_html_to_plaintext = Yes

This will allow the sub-parts of any multipart message including
multipart/related and multipart/signed to be examined. It will also
allow plain text (and HTML) from attached messages and will ultimately
discard all but the first alternative from multipart/alternative and
convert any remaining HTML to plain text.

This will allow very little that will ultimately be scrubbed. Only
text/plain attachments with unspecified character sets.


>Could I then remove the "attachments" subdirectories?


You can remove the attachments directories anyway. They will be
recreated if needed. The problem with removal is there are messages in
the HTML archive with links to scrubbed attachments and if you remove
the directory or files, you break the links. Whether or not this is
important is up to you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From aba at westmont.edu  Tue Nov 17 16:51:09 2009
From: aba at westmont.edu (Anne Anderson)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:51:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Held messages not appearing on administrative web
	page
Message-ID: <3ebf3e3f0911170751u321794c0w47276e23bc7e4e2e@mail.gmail.com>

I have a number (about 500) of old held messages in /var/lib/mailman/data
that should show up on the administrative interface of the list's website,
but don't.

2 questions:

1) what determines if a file in /var/lib/mailman/data shows up in the web
interface?
2) How can one reindex or rebuild the contents of /var/lib/mailman/data so
the missing data shows up?

We are running Mailman 2.1.9 on Linux SLES 10.2.

Thanks!

Anne
-- 
Anne Anderson
Web Application Developer / Database Manager
Information Technology
Westmont College

From jsditzel at msn.com  Tue Nov 17 19:45:29 2009
From: jsditzel at msn.com (John Ditzel)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:45:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Access
Message-ID: <SNT106-DS2359EE6B667816156A30EAD6A40@phx.gbl>

Please help me to access my admin. account I can't get in. Also is there an info page for me to learn just how to use mailman? I'm new and dumb to this and really need some help. I use supergreen hosting and mailman came as an option. I applied with my email jsditzel at msn.com<mailto:jsditzel at msn.com> but my password didn't work. But still not sure how to utilize your program to my needs. Which is automated mailing list to send as I develope campaigns for products or services.

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Tue Nov 17 22:47:44 2009
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:47:44 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Access
In-Reply-To: <SNT106-DS2359EE6B667816156A30EAD6A40@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT106-DS2359EE6B667816156A30EAD6A40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911172344070.2693@data.home>

On Tue, 17 Nov 2009, John Ditzel wrote:

> Please help me to access my admin. account I can't get in.

You need to contact Supergreen Hosting about this, we can't help you with 
this.

> Also is there an info page for me to learn just how to use mailman?

Try http://list.org/./admins.html

Geoff.


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 17 22:56:22 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:56:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Held messages not appearing on administrative
	webpage
In-Reply-To: <3ebf3e3f0911170751u321794c0w47276e23bc7e4e2e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111713562209844d7ae9ae@msapiro>

Anne Anderson wrote:

>I have a number (about 500) of old held messages in /var/lib/mailman/data
>that should show up on the administrative interface of the list's website,
>but don't.
>
>2 questions:
>
>1) what determines if a file in /var/lib/mailman/data shows up in the web
>interface?


The presence of an entry in lists/LISTNAME/request.pck pointing to the
held message in data/ and containing other info about the message.


>2) How can one reindex or rebuild the contents of /var/lib/mailman/data so
>the missing data shows up?


You can't easily. There was information in the request.pck entry that
is lost. The most important part is the metadata of the held message.
You could probably fake it, but you would need to create a python
script to do it. It would probably be easier to create a script to
unpickle the heldmsg file, remove it and  requeue it in the in queue
as a new message to the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From andale at excaliburworld.com  Wed Nov 18 02:50:05 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:50:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <4A86EEAB.8080603@justbrits.com>
References: <PC19220090814065436000051a36ba4@msapiro>
	<4A86EEAB.8080603@justbrits.com>
Message-ID: <p0624082ec72901db040d@[64.142.30.27]>

At 12:21 PM -0500 on 8/15/09, Shop at \" Just Brits \" wrote:


>So IMHO Bill needs to tell The List not only the version of MM BUT 
>the source of
>install so that everybody is "playing with a FULL deck of cards". 
>Right-:) ???

I don't remember if I answered this question before or not, but just 
to cover all the bases:

lists.sonic.net is running Mailman v2.1.11

An overview of Mailman on this server can be found at:
http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo

I'm also posting a note to mailman at lists.sonic.net to find out about 
the source.

Bill

From andale at excaliburworld.com  Wed Nov 18 02:52:51 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:52:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090814065436000051a36ba4@msapiro>
References: <PC19220090814065436000051a36ba4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p0624082dc728ff6b71d7@[64.142.30.27]>

At 6:54 AM -0700 on 8/14/09, Mark Sapiro wrote:


>
>You can do this but it will require the cooperation of the Mailman
>host. The cooperation part is to set
>
>SENDER_HEADERS = (None, 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender')
>
>in mm_cfg.py. Putting None first will check the envelope sender before
>the From: header.

This suggestion (posted several months ago) would solve my issue of 
having to approve posts that I've already sent to the list (with 
myself as the envelope sender).  Of course, if Steve's solution works 
(and is what I think it is), then it would resolve both of my issues 
(6 step approval process, and reply-to issue on digests).  But as a 
fallback, this solution sounds like it would still change my 6 step 
process down to 3 steps.  Just for clarity, who exactly would perform 
the above change?  My ISP who hosts Mailman?  Can you give me the 
technically correct language I could use to suggest it to them? 
(i.e., so that they know exactly what to do)

Thanks,
Bill

From andale at excaliburworld.com  Wed Nov 18 02:32:04 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:32:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
Message-ID: <p06240826c728d8bd6121@[64.142.30.27]>

Hi Steve, et al,

Awhile back I asked some questions about managing my Mailman list 
such that it worked like it did back on Autoshare (an old Mac OS 9 
listserver).  I received some good advice, and have made some great 
progress in attaining most of my goals.  There were still some 
unresolved issues, but I took a break to let others on the list 
tackle their problems, and also to let myself digest (no pun 
intended) the situation for awhile.

To recap, I have a mailing list of about 300 members.  The reply-to 
is currently customized to go to one of my personal email addresses 
(versus the mailmon default address of <foo-list at lists.sonic.net>). 
When I receive the posts, I determine whether the post is appropriate 
for the list, and if needed, edit out extraneous text (such as 
excessive quoted material and/or excessive signature lines) as well 
as profanity or classified information that doesn't belong on the 
list.  I then use Eudora's "redirect" function (keeps headers in 
tact) to redirect the moderated post to foo-list at lists.sonic.net.

The two outstanding issues are:

1. After I do the redirect to foo-list at lists.sonic.net, the 
listserver still sends the moderation email back to me, requiring me 
to approve of the post (despite the fact that the envelope sender is 
from the list owner/moderator).  When the list traffic is slow, this 
isn't a big issue, but when topics get hot, this becomes a major 
headache (receive, read, modify, send, receive again, approve).

2. Replies to digest still automatically go to 
foo-list at lists.sonic.net instead of to the customized reply-to 
address (and there does not appear to be any way to change that). 
This becomes a mess because now I have a mix of non-moderated posts 
and moderated posts in the same place, so I have to be careful about 
which ones I approve.

DREAM SOLUTION:
I'm looking for a solution that would resolve both these issues.  I 
imagine a solution where I set the reply-to address to 
foo-list at lists.sonic.net, but somehow get the list to send those 
posts to me intact unmodified (versus getting the Mailman generated 
moderator emails with all the extraneous stuff and extra headers). 
Then I perform any necessary modifications, and redirect to the list, 
with the original heads intact, but have the list recognize the 
envelope sender and therefore post to the list (rather than bounce 
back to the moderator).

I don't know if the first part of this solution is possible. 
However, I believe I've already received information that tells me 
that the 2nd part is not possible because Mailman does not have a 
"check the envelope sender first" option.  Experimentation has shown 
me that if I send a post to the list, and the FROM sender is not a 
member, but the envelope sender the moderator (aka, me), it passes it 
through to the list.  However, if the FROM sender is a member (but 
mod flag turned on), then Mailman holds the post for moderator 
approval regardless of what the envelope sender is.

The FROM sender will always be a member of the list, and I want to 
keep the FROM sender intact; hence, unless I'm the member posting, it 
will always be held for moderation.

In one of the earlier replies, Steve suggested the following aliases:

foo-list:           moderator at example.com
foo-list-moderated: | mailman post foo-list

This suggestion sounds a bit like the first part of my "dream" 
solution above, where I let people post to the list address (instead 
of the customized reply-to address).  The alias would then route the 
post directly to me rather than to Mailman.  Putting aside, for now, 
how I get this alias set up, I'm still stuck on how I would then get 
the email posted to the mailing list (since if I send it to the list 
address, it will just come back to me again).  Perhaps that is where 
the foo-list-moderated alias comes into play?

Taking a stab at it, I should ask my ISP to do the following:

1. Set an alias for foo-list at lists.sonic.net to go to 
moderator at example.com (my email).
2. Set an alias for foo-list-moderated at lists.sonic.net to go to "| 
mailman post foo-list".

Then my steps for moderating the list would be:

Receive email at moderator at example.com (originally posted to 
foo-list at lists.sonic.net), perform edits as necessary, then redirect 
the post to foo-list-moderated at lists.sonic.net (6 steps down to 3 
steps).

I did a test email to foo-list-moderated at lists.sonic.net, and it was 
returned as "no such user", so I'm guessing that I'm actually 
creating a new email alias as part of this solution.

Does it sound like I understand the suggestion correctly?  And if so, 
is it the solution that you think I am after?

I just want to make sure I'm on the right track before I start poking 
my ISP for help.

THANKS!!

Bill


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 18 03:18:50 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:18:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <p0624082dc728ff6b71d7@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <PC19520091117181850014076ba84be@msapiro>

Bill Catambay wrote:

>At 6:54 AM -0700 on 8/14/09, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>
>>
>>You can do this but it will require the cooperation of the Mailman
>>host. The cooperation part is to set
>>
>>SENDER_HEADERS = (None, 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender')
>>
>>in mm_cfg.py. Putting None first will check the envelope sender before
>>the From: header.
[...]
>Just for clarity, who exactly would perform 
>the above change?  My ISP who hosts Mailman?  Can you give me the 
>technically correct language I could use to suggest it to them? 
>(i.e., so that they know exactly what to do)


This needs to be done by someone at the ISP who has the ability to
write to the mailman configuration file which by default is at
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py, but may be elsewhere in their
installation.

They would just add the one line

SENDER_HEADERS = (None, 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender')

to the end of the file. This will change the order of membership tests.
Instead of checking for membership and moderated in the default From:,
(envelope sender), Reply-To:, Sender: order, it will check in the
order (envelope sender), From:, Reply-To:, Sender:.

>From the host's point of view, this is a global change that affects
every list, so they may be understandably reluctant to do it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Nov 18 03:48:59 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:48:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <PC19520091117181850014076ba84be@msapiro>
References: <p0624082dc728ff6b71d7@[64.142.30.27]>
	<PC19520091117181850014076ba84be@msapiro>
Message-ID: <874ooswns4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > They would just add the one line
 > 
 > SENDER_HEADERS = (None, 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender')

An alternative to this would be a custom pipeline with the places that
checks SENDER_HEADERS altered to use that.  You might also want to
grep for some appropriate host's trace headers to avoid replay attacks.

Sorry, I don't have time to go into detail, but I think that in
combination with changing the list-post address to go directly to the
moderator should do what Bill wants to happen.  It has the big
advantage from the host's point of view that it only affects Bill's
list; the small disadvantage is a small amount of work installing the
change.

It's not a ton of work though; the first time I did this it took 45
minutes from deciding to do it to a working installation.  I think the
host should be able to do this in less than 10 minutes, as long as
Bill is willing to accept the slight risk that the ML might go down
until the host has time to look at it again.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 18 04:48:18 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:48:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <p06240826c728d8bd6121@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111719481807184d7ae8a0@msapiro>

Bill Catambay wrote:
>
>The two outstanding issues are:
>
>1. After I do the redirect to foo-list at lists.sonic.net, the 
>listserver still sends the moderation email back to me, requiring me 
>to approve of the post (despite the fact that the envelope sender is 
>from the list owner/moderator).  When the list traffic is slow, this 
>isn't a big issue, but when topics get hot, this becomes a major 
>headache (receive, read, modify, send, receive again, approve).
>
>2. Replies to digest still automatically go to 
>foo-list at lists.sonic.net instead of to the customized reply-to 
>address (and there does not appear to be any way to change that). 
>This becomes a mess because now I have a mix of non-moderated posts 
>and moderated posts in the same place, so I have to be careful about 
>which ones I approve.
>
>DREAM SOLUTION:
>I'm looking for a solution that would resolve both these issues.  I 
>imagine a solution where I set the reply-to address to 
>foo-list at lists.sonic.net, but somehow get the list to send those 
>posts to me intact unmodified (versus getting the Mailman generated 
>moderator emails with all the extraneous stuff and extra headers). 
>Then I perform any necessary modifications, and redirect to the list, 
>with the original heads intact, but have the list recognize the 
>envelope sender and therefore post to the list (rather than bounce 
>back to the moderator).
>
>I don't know if the first part of this solution is possible. 
>However, I believe I've already received information that tells me 
>that the 2nd part is not possible because Mailman does not have a 
>"check the envelope sender first" option.  Experimentation has shown 
>me that if I send a post to the list, and the FROM sender is not a 
>member, but the envelope sender the moderator (aka, me), it passes it 
>through to the list.  However, if the FROM sender is a member (but 
>mod flag turned on), then Mailman holds the post for moderator 
>approval regardless of what the envelope sender is.
>
>The FROM sender will always be a member of the list, and I want to 
>keep the FROM sender intact; hence, unless I'm the member posting, it 
>will always be held for moderation.


Your posts arrived out of sequence due to greylisting at python.org, so
I've responded to this, and Stephen, as is often the case, has an even
better idea.

I don't recall if we covered custom handlers in the earlier thread, but
there is a FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> that talks about
installing a custom handler for a single list. That FAQ talks about
adding a handler to the pipeline, but what you would want is to
replace the Moderate handler with your own version. Yours would differ
from the base by changing the initial part of process() from

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    if msgdata.get('approved') or msgdata.get('fromusenet'):
        return
    # First of all, is the poster a member or not?
    for sender in msg.get_senders():
        if mlist.isMember(sender):
            break
    else:
        sender = None

to

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    if msgdata.get('approved') or msgdata.get('fromusenet'):
        return
    # First of all, is the poster a member or not?
    for sender in msg.get_senders(headers=(None,
                                           'from',
                                           'reply-to',
                                           'sender')):
        if mlist.isMember(sender):
            break
    else:
        sender = None

Actually, you could use any sequence of headers (and None for envelope
sender) you want, You could check just the envelope sender with

    for sender in msg.get_senders(headers=(None,))

Then you (the host actually) would replace Moderate with this handler
in a custom pipeline for this list only.


>In one of the earlier replies, Steve suggested the following aliases:
>
>foo-list:           moderator at example.com
>foo-list-moderated: | mailman post foo-list
>
>This suggestion sounds a bit like the first part of my "dream" 
>solution above, where I let people post to the list address (instead 
>of the customized reply-to address).  The alias would then route the 
>post directly to me rather than to Mailman.  Putting aside, for now, 
>how I get this alias set up, I'm still stuck on how I would then get 
>the email posted to the mailing list (since if I send it to the list 
>address, it will just come back to me again).  Perhaps that is where 
>the foo-list-moderated alias comes into play?


Exactly. foo-list: becomes an alias for you and foo-list-moderated:
becomes the actual list posting address. Or, you (read the host) could
make the foo-list: alias like

foo-list: "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman owner foo-list"

so it would be a synonym for foo-list-owner and you wouldn't have to
bug the host if you wanted to change the address (note Stephen's
foo-list-moderated: is abbreviated and really should look more like
this one but with the 'post' argument he has).


>Taking a stab at it, I should ask my ISP to do the following:
>
>1. Set an alias for foo-list at lists.sonic.net to go to 
>moderator at example.com (my email).
>2. Set an alias for foo-list-moderated at lists.sonic.net to go to "| 
>mailman post foo-list".
>
>Then my steps for moderating the list would be:
>
>Receive email at moderator at example.com (originally posted to 
>foo-list at lists.sonic.net), perform edits as necessary, then redirect 
>the post to foo-list-moderated at lists.sonic.net (6 steps down to 3 
>steps).
>
>I did a test email to foo-list-moderated at lists.sonic.net, and it was 
>returned as "no such user", so I'm guessing that I'm actually 
>creating a new email alias as part of this solution.


Right.


>Does it sound like I understand the suggestion correctly?  And if so, 
>is it the solution that you think I am after?


Yes.


>I just want to make sure I'm on the right track before I start poking 
>my ISP for help.


I think the aliases together with the modified Moderate handler for
your list will be your DREAM SOLUTION. And this has the advantage that
while it is some work for the host to set up, it affects only your
list so thay can't say no solely on the grounds that it may have
unintended consequences for other customers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adamsca at gmail.com  Wed Nov 18 18:18:57 2009
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:18:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman current version?
Message-ID: <27572d930911180918v6b748001qe40e1886036a125f@mail.gmail.com>

I have been using Mailman 2.1.12 for awhile now and am migrating to a
different server. When I looked on the website, I found two sources for the
Mailman package, Launchpad and Gnu. It says that Gnu tends to lag behind in
versions available. In Launchpad, it says the current version is 3.0.0a3 and
Gnu has 2.1.12. I am pretty sure that the latter is the most current stable
version and I have not seen any posts about a new version, so....?

I just want to verify this before moving forward with the migration.


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Nov 18 23:28:57 2009
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:28:57 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman current version?
In-Reply-To: <27572d930911180918v6b748001qe40e1886036a125f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27572d930911180918v6b748001qe40e1886036a125f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.64.0911181620430.95787@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009, Christopher Adams wrote:

> I have been using Mailman 2.1.12 for awhile now and am migrating to a
> different server. When I looked on the website, I found two sources for the
> Mailman package, Launchpad and Gnu. It says that Gnu tends to lag behind in
> versions available. In Launchpad, it says the current version is 3.0.0a3 and
> Gnu has 2.1.12. I am pretty sure that the latter is the most current stable
> version and I have not seen any posts about a new version, so....?

I'm surprised none of the developers here have answered (unless I somehow 
missed it) but I assume the "a" in that 3.0.0a3 means "alpha". In other 
words, a very preliminary first look version and not at all suitable for 
any sort of production work. I do recall a mention of a first alpha 
version of Mailman 3 but unless you're into heavy testing on a separate 
system, stay away from it for now.

IMHO, the mailman team is very good about version numbering and officially 
calling something a production version when it's ready. Contrast that to 
the far too many projects that don't understand versioning and will put 
out a beta and then if it works, just say "use the beta, it's the current 
latest working version". With Mailman, wait for an official production 
release as it will come when everything is ready.

-- Larry Stone
    lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From shop at justbrits.com  Thu Nov 19 02:47:13 2009
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:47:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please help
In-Reply-To: <475624.62050.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <475624.62050.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B04A3A1.5000601@justbrits.com>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	[Mailman-Users] Please help
Date: 	Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:46:14 -0800 (PST)
From: 	Abdelmajid Kassem <kassem2k at yahoo.com>
To: 	mailman-users at python.org



Hello Dear friend:

We are a nonprofit organization and our website is www.hc-mambd.org. We are 
hosting this site with a friend who has a hosting company. However, to my 
knowledge, he does not support any maling lists which we need.

I have another website hosted by justhost.com and they support the mailing lists. 
My idea is to put the first site in the second's account which I did and create my 
mailing list. However, when I created the mailing list (info at hc-mambd.org) and 
want to add the members (Membership Management), it tells me this:
-----------------------------------------

No such list info_hc-mambd.orgThere currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman
            mailing lists on hc-mambd.org.To visit the administrators configuration page for an
        unadvertised list, open a URL similar to this one, but with a '/' and
        the right list name appended.  If you have the proper authority,
        you can also create a new mailing list.

        General list information can be found at the mailing list overview page.(Send questions and comments to mailman at hc-mambd.org.)-------------------------------------------

Can you PLEASE help me create my list (info at hc-mambd.org) and add members to it?

Thank you,
Dr. Kassem.
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
****************************************************************************************
Dr. K., after seeing your reference to 'justhost.com' I checked them out
AND traded a couple of Tech. Service mails.  You have one serious drawback;  
they do NOT offer nor support MailMan.  "mailing lists, yes but NOT MM.

Sorry.

Ed




















































































































































































From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Nov 19 03:41:41 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:41:41 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman current version?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.64.0911181620430.95787@albion.stonejongleux.com>
References: <27572d930911180918v6b748001qe40e1886036a125f@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.OSX.4.64.0911181620430.95787@albion.stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <87tywrutga.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Larry Stone writes:

 > I'm surprised none of the developers here have answered (unless I somehow 
 > missed it)

I think it's probably just time differentials, and the fact that the
only developer currently active on mailman-users is Mark.

2.1.12 is the latest release in the 2.x series.  It was intended to be
superseded by the 2.2 branch, but it looks like it may continue in
maintenance mode for a couple more releases.  I would expect that
future changes to 2.1.x will be more of the "damn the spammers, but we
have to do something about this new abuse they've cooked up" rather
than "bright shiny things" or even "mile-deep roach decides to look at
the sun" -- there probably are not many implementation bugs left,
although there are a raft of design problems.

The 2.2 branch has been cancelled in favor of 2.2-oriented developers
helping with 3.0.  There just wasn't enough manpower being applied to
address the design issues, and 3.0 is a much nicer platform for
developing a better UIs etc.

3.0 is currently in active development.  To call it "alpha" is a
misnomer; the implementation is currently very incomplete.  It's
actually usable as a mailing list distribution agent, but most of the
UI is as yet missing (at last report).  I expect early UI development
will go pretty fast as a lot of basic stuff can be ported from 2.x,
but then things may slow down again as thorny issues like backscatter
and radical UI improvement are addressed.

Discussion of Mailman 3 occurs on the mailman-developers list and on
the Mailman wiki.  If you're just looking for the latest production
version of Mailman, that's 2.1.12.

HTH, and of course Barry and Mark are authoritative sources here.

Steve

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 19 04:54:21 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:54:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman current version?
In-Reply-To: <87tywrutga.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111819542106563b315665@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Larry Stone writes:
>
> > I'm surprised none of the developers here have answered (unless I somehow 
> > missed it)
>
>I think it's probably just time differentials, and the fact that the
>only developer currently active on mailman-users is Mark.


And the fact that a couple of days a week I usually spend the entire
day away from computers (unless you count the cyclometer on my
bicycle). :)


>HTH, and of course Barry and Mark are authoritative sources here.


All of what Steve and Larry said in this thread is correct.

In addition, there will be a 2.1.13 release before the end of the year.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From andrewjay100 at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Nov 19 11:19:11 2009
From: andrewjay100 at yahoo.co.uk (Andrew)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:19:11 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce notifications
Message-ID: <01d901ca6901$c269fc50$0700000a@MDDell>

Hi. Am a novice user.

When mailman returns notification of a bounce to an administrator, the content always comes within an attachment. Is there any way of telling it to send the details within the body of the e-mail, because when you have lots there's a great deal of extra clicking involved, and it's more difficult to automatically process the information with code (e.g. within Outlook)

Thanks very much

Andrew

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 19 17:07:32 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:07:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <01d901ca6901$c269fc50$0700000a@MDDell>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111908073202655857a169@msapiro>

Andrew wrote:
>
>When mailman returns notification of a bounce to an administrator, the content always comes within an attachment. Is there any way of telling it to send the details within the body of the e-mail, because when you have lots there's a great deal of extra clicking involved, and it's more difficult to automatically process the information with code (e.g. within Outlook)


The only ways to change that would be modifying the source code or
using an MUA that displays attached messages inline.

The bounce notice is sent as an attached message in order to preserve
its headers and MIME structure exactly as Mailman received it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Thu Nov 19 20:58:55 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:58:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman current version?
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009111819542106563b315665@msapiro>
References: <PC1952009111819542106563b315665@msapiro>
Message-ID: <3226106B-252B-42AE-8502-8FDDF27F7715@python.org>

On Nov 18, 2009, at 10:54 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> And the fact that a couple of days a week I usually spend the entire
> day away from computers (unless you count the cyclometer on my
> bicycle). :)

I only have a little more to add:

* I just got back from 2 weeks of travel, so I've blown my chances at  
inbox-zero for the year. ;)

* I only have time to skim mailman-users.

* I'm not going to hold up Mailman 3 final release for lack of u/i.   
If 3.0 is a stable distribution engine, with a robust API and a data  
migration strategy, it will be good enough to release.  That doesn't  
mean it will be appropriate for all sites to upgrade, but it will  
useful to a lot of people anyway.  So it's likely you won't see an  
updated Mailman u/i until 3.1 (or more radically, as a separate  
project that talks to the API).

-Barry

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From quintin at terarecon.com  Thu Nov 19 18:19:03 2009
From: quintin at terarecon.com (Quintin T. Williams)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:19:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupt 'config.pck' file
Message-ID: <008f01ca693c$648bfad0$2da3f070$@com>

Hello - I have an issue with my Mailman App.  I'm using an OpenBSD server.
3.5 and I have version 2.1.4.  When I attempt to go to the web page for the
lists for Email groups I get the following mesg:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
    main()
  File
"/usr/local/src/ports/mail/mailman/w-mailman-2.1.4/fake-i386/usr/local/lib/m
ailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 67, in main
  File
"/usr/local/src/ports/mail/mailman/w-mailman-2.1.4/fake-i386/usr/local/lib/m
ailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 234, in admin_overview
  File
"/usr/local/src/ports/mail/mailman/w-mailman-2.1.4/fake-i386/usr/local/lib/m
ailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
  File
"/usr/local/src/ports/mail/mailman/w-mailman-2.1.4/fake-i386/usr/local/lib/m
ailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 609, in Load
MMCorruptListDatabaseError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/spool/mailman/lists/aq-ngp-ml/config.db.last'

I realize that since I don't have a config.db.last file I looked that the
Config.pck and the config.pck.last files and they are both empty.  I do not
have a backup for this email group so I need to understand how to recreate
the config. files.  Do I rebuild this from scratch OR is there another way
besides rebuilding it?  Also can I cp files from other lists and use that as
my seed to rebuild?  I've also performed a 'dumpdb' and found nothing that I
could use.  Can anyone provide me the steps to take to rebuild this list?

I'm new to mailman so any instructions please be very specific with the
directions.

Thanks in advance for your comments and support.

Regards,

Quintin "QT" Williams
IT Operations Manager
TeraRecon, Inc.
2955 Campus Dr. Ste 325
San Mateo, CA 94403
O: 650.653.4305
C: 925.640.3537
F: 650.989.6814





From Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org  Thu Nov 19 20:04:54 2009
From: Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org (Tim Van Dyne)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:04:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization - How do I explicitly disable
	Sender field rewrite
Message-ID: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC3E8EFE@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL>

I just upgraded to 2.1.9 and it seems that Personalization now re-writes
the "Sender" or "From" field on all recipients' emails to use the
'description' of the list.  I've been unsuccessful in disabling this
unless I delete the description field, but then there would be no
description on the listinfo page.  Is there a quick entry I can put into
mm_cfg.py or modify on one of the other files to disable the Sender/From
rewrite?
 
It seems like defaulting to 'No' for personalization starts out ok.
Then I change it to 'Yes' and it makes the From field:
"list description" <email at address.blah>
 
I want just:
<email at address.blah>

When I change Personalization back to 'No', the effect stays the same.
Now I'm unable to get rid of this From field rewrite unless I make a new
list.

We want Personalization in order to use some variables in the footer,
and of course to remedy some external user spam filtering issues.
But we don't want the Sender/From field to contain the list's
description.

-Tim-

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 19 22:55:04 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:55:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization - How do I explicitly
	disableSender field rewrite
In-Reply-To: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC3E8EFE@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL>
Message-ID: <PC19520091119135504071805296892@msapiro>

Tim Van Dyne wrote:

>I just upgraded to 2.1.9 and it seems that Personalization now re-writes
>the "Sender" or "From" field on all recipients' emails to use the
>'description' of the list.  I've been unsuccessful in disabling this
>unless I delete the description field, but then there would be no
>description on the listinfo page.  Is there a quick entry I can put into
>mm_cfg.py or modify on one of the other files to disable the Sender/From
>rewrite?


This should have nothing to do with personalization. This is controlled
by General Options -> anonymous_list.


>It seems like defaulting to 'No' for personalization starts out ok.
>Then I change it to 'Yes' and it makes the From field:
>"list description" <email at address.blah>
> 
>I want just:
><email at address.blah>
>
>When I change Personalization back to 'No', the effect stays the same.
>Now I'm unable to get rid of this From field rewrite unless I make a new
>list.


I don't understand the interactions you discribe unless you are also
making other changes.


>We want Personalization in order to use some variables in the footer,
>and of course to remedy some external user spam filtering issues.
>But we don't want the Sender/From field to contain the list's
>description.


Rewriting of the From: header is controlled only by anonymous_list. If
anonymous_list is Yes, the From: is rewritten to "Description <list
posting address>"; if No, the From: is not rewritten at all.

personalize = Yes does not rewrite message headers. It only expands the
replacements available for msg_header and msg_footer.

personalize = Full Personalization rewrites only the To: to the "real
name <address>" of the recipient.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org  Thu Nov 19 23:10:07 2009
From: Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org (Tim Van Dyne)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:10:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization - How do I explicitly
	disableSender field rewrite
In-Reply-To: <PC19520091119135504071805296892@msapiro>
References: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC3E8EFE@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> 
	<PC19520091119135504071805296892@msapiro>
Message-ID: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC3E8F9E@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL>


Tim Van Dyne wrote:

>>I just upgraded to 2.1.9 and it seems that Personalization now
re-writes
>>the "Sender" or "From" field on all recipients' emails to use the
>>'description' of the list.  I've been unsuccessful in disabling this
>>unless I delete the description field, but then there would be no
>>description on the listinfo page.  Is there a quick entry I can put
into
>>mm_cfg.py or modify on one of the other files to disable the
Sender/From
>>rewrite?


>This should have nothing to do with personalization. This is controlled
>by General Options -> anonymous_list.
I realized about an hour after I sent the message that personalization
doesn't affect this. But I didn't know that anonymous_list added the
description.


>>It seems like defaulting to 'No' for personalization starts out ok.
>>Then I change it to 'Yes' and it makes the From field:
>>"list description" <email at address.blah>
>> 
>>I want just:
>><email at address.blah>
>>
>>When I change Personalization back to 'No', the effect stays the same.
>>Now I'm unable to get rid of this From field rewrite unless I make a
new
>>list.


>I don't understand the interactions you discribe unless you are also
>making other changes.
Has to do with me thinking it was personalization somehow.

>>We want Personalization in order to use some variables in the footer,
>>and of course to remedy some external user spam filtering issues.
>>But we don't want the Sender/From field to contain the list's
>>description.


>Rewriting of the From: header is controlled only by anonymous_list. If
>anonymous_list is Yes, the From: is rewritten to "Description <list
>posting address>"; if No, the From: is not rewritten at all.

>personalize = Yes does not rewrite message headers. It only expands the
>replacements available for msg_header and msg_footer.

>personalize = Full Personalization rewrites only the To: to the "real
>name <address>" of the recipient.

Thank you for pointing this out, I will take into account this new
direction
with 'General Options -> anonymous_list' and see if I can get things
working
the way we want it.



>-- 
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 19 23:14:07 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:14:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupt 'config.pck' file
In-Reply-To: <008f01ca693c$648bfad0$2da3f070$@com>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111914140703430529671e@msapiro>

Quintin T. Williams wrote:

>Hello - I have an issue with my Mailman App.  I'm using an OpenBSD server.
>3.5 and I have version 2.1.4.  When I attempt to go to the web page for the
>lists for Email groups I get the following mesg:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
[...]
>  File "/usr/local/src/ports/mail/mailman/w-mailman-2.1.4/fake-i386/usr/local/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 609, in Load
>MMCorruptListDatabaseError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/var/spool/mailman/lists/aq-ngp-ml/config.db.last'
>
>I realize that since I don't have a config.db.last file I looked that the
>Config.pck and the config.pck.last files and they are both empty.


When the config.pck for a list is non-existent or unreadable, Mailman
tries to fall back to config.pck.last and then to the Mailman 2.0.x
files config.db and config.db.last. When it ultimately throws the
MMCorruptListDatabaseError exception, it reports the status from the
last file it tried which often is the "No such file or directory:
> .../config.db.last" because most 2.1.x installations don't have the old config.db files.


>I do not
>have a backup for this email group so I need to understand how to recreate
>the config. files.  Do I rebuild this from scratch OR is there another way
>besides rebuilding it?  Also can I cp files from other lists and use that as
>my seed to rebuild?  I've also performed a 'dumpdb' and found nothing that I
>could use.  Can anyone provide me the steps to take to rebuild this list?


You effectively need to recreate the list configuration and membership
from scratch. I think the easiest thing is to remove the config.pck
and config.pck.last from the lists/LISTNAME/ directory and then create
a new LISTNAME list and proceed to configure it and add members.


>I'm new to mailman so any instructions please be very specific with the
>directions.


rm /var/spool/mailman/lists/aq-ngp-ml/config*
/path/to/mailman/bin/newlist aq-ngp-ml

Then you can use the web admin interface to configure the lis and mass
subscribe the members.

This will leave the existing archives intact.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 19 23:31:05 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:31:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization - How do I explicitly
	disableSender field rewrite
In-Reply-To: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC3E8F9E@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL>
Message-ID: <PC19520091119143105065605296855@msapiro>

Tim Van Dyne wrote:

>I realized about an hour after I sent the message that personalization
>doesn't affect this. But I didn't know that anonymous_list added the
>description.


The description was added in Mailman 2.1.6.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org  Thu Nov 19 23:46:30 2009
From: Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org (Tim Van Dyne)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:46:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization - How do I explicitly
	disableSender field rewrite
In-Reply-To: <PC19520091119143105065605296855@msapiro>
References: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC3E8F9E@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> 
	<PC19520091119143105065605296855@msapiro>
Message-ID: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC3E8FE7@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL>

I'm assuming I would change $prefix/Mailman/Handlers/Cleanse.py somehow
then.
So, of this, what would I change?:

    if mlist.anonymous_list:
        syslog('post', 'post to %s from %s anonymized',
               mlist.internal_name(), msg.get('from'))
        del msg['from']
        del msg['reply-to']
        del msg['sender']
        # Hotmail sets this one
        del msg['x-originating-email']
        i18ndesc = str(uheader(mlist, mlist.description, 'From'))
        msg['From'] = formataddr((i18ndesc, mlist.GetListEmail()))
        msg['Reply-To'] = mlist.GetListEmail() 


Or am I going in the wrong direction?  I'm looking to just take the
description
out of the equation for anonymous_list.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:31 PM
To: Tim Van Dyne; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Personalization - How do I explicitly
disableSender field rewrite

Tim Van Dyne wrote:

>I realized about an hour after I sent the message that personalization
>doesn't affect this. But I didn't know that anonymous_list added the
>description.


The description was added in Mailman 2.1.6.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 20 00:33:10 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:33:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization - How do I explicitly
	disableSender field rewrite
In-Reply-To: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC3E8FE7@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL>
Message-ID: <PC1952009111915331009539a666983@msapiro>

Tim Van Dyne wrote:

>I'm assuming I would change $prefix/Mailman/Handlers/Cleanse.py somehow
>then.
>So, of this, what would I change?:
>
[...]
>        msg['From'] = formataddr((i18ndesc, mlist.GetListEmail()))



Change the above line to

        msg['From'] = mlist.GetListEmail()

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org  Fri Nov 20 01:52:55 2009
From: Tim.VanDyne at valleyair.org (Tim Van Dyne)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:52:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization - How do I explicitly
	disableSender field rewrite
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009111915331009539a666983@msapiro>
References: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC3E8FE7@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL> 
	<PC1952009111915331009539a666983@msapiro>
Message-ID: <0743ACC63489E8418A38B6F78DCB1DDC3E906F@mailfre.SJVAPCD.LOCAL>

 
Tim Van Dyne wrote:

>>I'm assuming I would change $prefix/Mailman/Handlers/Cleanse.py
somehow
>>then.
>>So, of this, what would I change?:
>>
[...]
>>        msg['From'] = formataddr((i18ndesc, mlist.GetListEmail()))

>Change the above line to

>        msg['From'] = mlist.GetListEmail()

Right before you sent that out I found the same exact thing here:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-October/032475.html

Thanks so much for the help. Problem solved.

From harold at uga.edu  Fri Nov 20 20:10:06 2009
From: harold at uga.edu (Harold Pritchett)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:10:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List all members of All lists
Message-ID: <4B06E98E.4070909@uga.edu>

How do I list all of the members of all of my lists.

Actually, I need to delete all users from a domain
and the command "remove_members --fromall --nouserack"
does not accept wildcards.

If I can get a list of all users, I can then grep it
for the domain name and run remove_members for each
of the users which are found.

any better ideas?

Thanks

Harold


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Fri Nov 20 20:38:24 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:38:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List all members of All lists
In-Reply-To: <4B06E98E.4070909@uga.edu>
References: <4B06E98E.4070909@uga.edu>
Message-ID: <20091120193824.GW24624@amyl.org.uk>

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 02:10:06PM -0500, Harold Pritchett wrote:
> How do I list all of the members of all of my lists.
> 
> Actually, I need to delete all users from a domain
> and the command "remove_members --fromall --nouserack"
> does not accept wildcards.
> 
> If I can get a list of all users, I can then grep it
> for the domain name and run remove_members for each
> of the users which are found.

I'd probably use something like 
    find_member example.com > outfile
which will give you the email address and list memberships; this can
be fed to remove_members. That may need some tidy-up, though.

Another approach I might consider would be to use list_lists -b, and a
while loop; something like: (untested)

        list_lists -b | while read L
        do
            find_member -l ${L} example.com > found-${L}
            remove_members --fromall --nouserack -f found-${L} ${L}
            rm found-${L}
        done

Maybe skipping the outfile, but I like outfiles, rather than
pipes/redirects.

maybe feeding stuff through tee(1), although logs/subscribe should log
those, appropriately.

(I'd probably use the second suggestion, myself, having tested it
first with a regexp that wouldn't do much damage.)

-- 
''meetings, n.:
    A place where minutes are kept and hours are lost.''

From lists at mschuette.name  Fri Nov 20 22:00:42 2009
From: lists at mschuette.name (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_Sch=FCtte?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:00:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List all members of All lists
In-Reply-To: <4B06E98E.4070909@uga.edu>
References: <4B06E98E.4070909@uga.edu>
Message-ID: <4B07037A.5060009@mschuette.name>

Harold Pritchett wrote:
> How do I list all of the members of all of my lists.

Hello,
I use this script to get a list of all lists and all members:

#! /bin/sh
for i in `/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists | tail +2 | awk '{print
$1}'`; do \
  for j in `/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members $i`; do \
    echo $i, $j; \
  done; \
done


-- 
Martin


From andale at excaliburworld.com  Sat Nov 21 05:29:54 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:29:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009111719481807184d7ae8a0@msapiro>
References: <PC1952009111719481807184d7ae8a0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240802c72d186d122d@[64.142.30.27]>

Looks like I'm half-way there.... unfortunately, half-way means "one 
step back" before the "two steps forward".

I got my ISP to create the aliases:

foo-list:                      "|/opt/mailman/mail/mailman owner foo-list"
foo-list-mod:                  "|/opt/mailman/mail/mailman post foo-list"

It would appear that there is one more thing they need to do, because 
when I try to send an email to the foo-list-mod address, I get a hard 
bounce:

    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<foo-list-mod at lists.sonic.net>
     (reason: 550 5.1.1 <foo-list-mod at lists.sonic.net>... No such user here)

I just got off the phone with their evening tech support person, but 
he doesn't have a clue.  He confirmed that the aliases were set up, 
but he doesn't know what else to do to complete the task so that 
foo-list-mod email is an actual working email address (and I don't 
know what to tell him so that he would know what to do).

The reason why I've gone backwards is because the first alias change 
*is* working, which means that there is currently no email address 
which is actually posting to the list.  Doh!  The list is dead, Jim.

(the evening tech guy said he didn't have authority to update aliases 
for mailing lists, so he couldn't back out the change)

Here's a couple of questions while I sit idly by as posts to the 
mailing list build up in my inbox:

1. Anyone know the missing ingredient (in tech terms) that might clue 
in the "night watchman" on what needs to be done to make foo-list-mod 
work?

2. Is there anyway to get posts posted to a mailing list when there 
is no email address which does it?

I have high hopes that *eventually* this mailing list will get to 
where I need it to be, but given that the weekend is upon us, I'm 
currently looking for something to get the list working in the 
meantime.

Thanks,
Bill


At 7:48 PM -0800 on 11/17/09, Mark Sapiro wrote:


>I think the aliases together with the modified Moderate handler for
>your list will be your DREAM SOLUTION. And this has the advantage that
>while it is some work for the host to set up, it affects only your
>list so thay can't say no solely on the grounds that it may have
>unintended consequences for other customers.



From terri at zone12.com  Sat Nov 21 05:42:37 2009
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:42:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c72d186d122d@[64.142.30.27]>
References: <PC1952009111719481807184d7ae8a0@msapiro>
	<p06240802c72d186d122d@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <4B076FBD.4040908@zone12.com>


Bill Catambay wrote:
> Here's a couple of questions while I sit idly by as posts to the mailing 
> list build up in my inbox:
> 
> 1. Anyone know the missing ingredient (in tech terms) that might clue in 
> the "night watchman" on what needs to be done to make foo-list-mod work?

This might not be helpful, depending on the mail server, but has someone 
run "newaliases" to make sure those aliases in the file have actually 
been made active?

(This isn't a necessary step for all mail servers, but it seems likely 
given your bounce message.  Goodness knows I forgot to do it a few times 
back when I was using sendmail on my list server.)

  Terri


From andale at excaliburworld.com  Sat Nov 21 05:47:04 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:47:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009111719481807184d7ae8a0@msapiro>
References: <PC1952009111719481807184d7ae8a0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240805c72d1e9a84f0@[64.142.30.27]>

At 7:48 PM -0800 on 11/17/09, Mark Sapiro wrote:


>I think the aliases together with the modified Moderate handler for
>your list will be your DREAM SOLUTION. And this has the advantage that
>while it is some work for the host to set up, it affects only your
>list so thay can't say no solely on the grounds that it may have
>unintended consequences for other customers.


Oh, and I forgot to ask about the "modified Moderate handler" 
(basically because I just now noticed - when my head doesn't 
immediately pick up on an idea, I skim past it).  Since I didn't 
actually mention anything about modifying a handler in my request to 
my host, am I still missing a critical piece of the puzzle?  I guess 
when the foo-list-mod email starts to work, it's still going to 
result in the same behavior as before... in that it will see the FROM 
address first, which will be a member with the mod flag set, and hold 
the post for approval.

*sigh*   LOL   *sigh*

So I need to ask them to install a custom handler for the foo-list 
(my) mailing list (and God willing, they'll understand what that 
means).  I'll tell them to change:

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
     if msgdata.get('approved') or msgdata.get('fromusenet'):
         return
     # First of all, is the poster a member or not?
     for sender in msg.get_senders():
         if mlist.isMember(sender):
             break
     else:
         sender = None

to:

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
     if msgdata.get('approved') or msgdata.get('fromusenet'):
         return
     # First of all, is the poster a member or not?
     for sender in msg.get_senders(headers=(None,)):
         if mlist.isMember(sender):
             break
     else:
         sender = None

(i think just checking envelope sender is all I need since I'm the 
only one who will know about this email)(well, me and everyone on 
this mailing list ;))

I hope someone there knows how to do this, otherwise this has all been in vain.

Bill

From andale at excaliburworld.com  Sat Nov 21 05:51:38 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (andale at excaliburworld.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:51:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <4B076FBD.4040908@zone12.com>
References: <PC1952009111719481807184d7ae8a0@msapiro>
	<p06240802c72d186d122d@[64.142.30.27]> <4B076FBD.4040908@zone12.com>
Message-ID: <p06240807c72d21642c28@[64.142.30.27]>

At 11:42 PM -0500 on 11/20/09, Terri Oda wrote:


>Bill Catambay wrote:
>>Here's a couple of questions while I sit idly by as posts to the 
>>mailing list build up in my inbox:
>>
>>1. Anyone know the missing ingredient (in tech terms) that might 
>>clue in the "night watchman" on what needs to be done to make 
>>foo-list-mod work?
>
>This might not be helpful, depending on the mail server, but has 
>someone run "newaliases" to make sure those aliases in the file have 
>actually been made active?
>
>(This isn't a necessary step for all mail servers, but it seems 
>likely given your bounce message.  Goodness knows I forgot to do it 
>a few times back when I was using sendmail on my list server.)
>

The night tech guy confirmed that they are active (although I don't 
know how he confirmed it).  Given that there were two alias changes, 
and since I *know* that the first alias did take effect (i.e., the 
foo-list email now comes to me instead of posting to the list), I'd 
assume that the 2nd alias took effect.  Also, they're both in a file 
(along with other mailing list related aliases), and I believe they 
processed that file of aliases (rather than doing each alias 
manually).

At this point, I wish the aliases did not take effect, because then 
I'd at least still be able to get posts to the mailing list.

Bill

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov 21 06:22:45 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:22:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <p06240807c72d21642c28@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <PC195200911202122450046eaaf3b5b@msapiro>

andale at excaliburworld.com wrote:
>
>>Bill Catambay wrote:
>>>Here's a couple of questions while I sit idly by as posts to the 
>>>mailing list build up in my inbox:
>>>
>>>1. Anyone know the missing ingredient (in tech terms) that might 
>>>clue in the "night watchman" on what needs to be done to make 
>>>foo-list-mod work?
>>
>>This might not be helpful, depending on the mail server, but has 
>>someone run "newaliases" to make sure those aliases in the file have 
>>actually been made active?
>>
>>(This isn't a necessary step for all mail servers, but it seems 
>>likely given your bounce message.  Goodness knows I forgot to do it 
>>a few times back when I was using sendmail on my list server.)
>>
>
>The night tech guy confirmed that they are active (although I don't 
>know how he confirmed it).  Given that there were two alias changes, 
>and since I *know* that the first alias did take effect (i.e., the 
>foo-list email now comes to me instead of posting to the list), I'd 
>assume that the 2nd alias took effect.  Also, they're both in a file 
>(along with other mailing list related aliases), and I believe they 
>processed that file of aliases (rather than doing each alias 
>manually).
>
>At this point, I wish the aliases did not take effect, because then 
>I'd at least still be able to get posts to the mailing list.


The lists.sonic.net domain has 2 MXs (mailin-01.mx.sonic.net and
mailin-02.mx.sonic.net) and each of those has 4 IP addresses, so there
are potentially 8 servers that can receive the domain's mail.

I'm guessing, but I suspect the aliases were changed on the Mailman
server so thay mail that reaches that server for foo-list and
foo-list-mod will be properly handled, but the missing piece is
relaying the mail from the 8 MX servers to the Mailman server. This
was already being done for the foo-list address so changing that alias
on the Mailman host worked, but foo-list-mod is not an address that
the 8 MXs know to relay to the Mailman server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov 21 06:40:38 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:40:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <p06240805c72d1e9a84f0@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <PC195200911202140380109eaaf3b93@msapiro>

Bill Catambay wrote:

>At 7:48 PM -0800 on 11/17/09, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>So I need to ask them to install a custom handler for the foo-list 
>(my) mailing list (and God willing, they'll understand what that 
>means).  I'll tell them to change:
>
>def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>     if msgdata.get('approved') or msgdata.get('fromusenet'):
>         return
>     # First of all, is the poster a member or not?
>     for sender in msg.get_senders():
>         if mlist.isMember(sender):
>             break
>     else:
>         sender = None
>
>to:
>
>def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>     if msgdata.get('approved') or msgdata.get('fromusenet'):
>         return
>     # First of all, is the poster a member or not?
>     for sender in msg.get_senders(headers=(None,)):
>         if mlist.isMember(sender):
>             break
>     else:
>         sender = None
>
>(i think just checking envelope sender is all I need since I'm the 
>only one who will know about this email)(well, me and everyone on 
>this mailing list ;))
>
>I hope someone there knows how to do this, otherwise this has all been in vain.


They need to do the following:

1. Copy Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py to Mailman/Handlers/Moderate_foo.py

2. Edit Moderate_foo.py as above

3. This step can be done in multiple ways, but perhaps the easiest to
explain is as follows:

  Create the file extend.py in the lists/foo-list/ directory (the
already existing directory that contains the foo-list config.pck,
etc.) The contents of this file are the 5 lines:

import copy
from Mailman import mm_cfg
def extend(mlist):
    mlist.pipeline = copy.copy(mm_cfg.GLOBAL_PIPELINE)
    mlist.pipeline[mlist.pipeline.index('Moderate')] = 'Moderate_foo'


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> for more detail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From harold at uga.edu  Sat Nov 21 15:31:53 2009
From: harold at uga.edu (Harold Pritchett)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:31:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List all members of All lists
In-Reply-To: <4B07037A.5060009@mschuette.name>
References: <4B06E98E.4070909@uga.edu> <4B07037A.5060009@mschuette.name>
Message-ID: <4B07F9D9.1030601@uga.edu>

Martin Sch?tte wrote:
> Harold Pritchett wrote:
>> How do I list all of the members of all of my lists.

Thanks for the ideas.  Here's what I ended up with:

#!/bin/bash

USER=$(/usr/bin/id -un)

if [ $USER != root ] ; then
     echo This command must be run as root
     exit
fi

if [ $# -ne 1 ]
   then
   echo "Usage:"
   echo ""
   echo "delete_domain_from_all_lists addr"
   echo ""
   echo "Options:"
   echo ""
   echo "addr is the domain  address to remove. (required)"
   echo ""
   exit
fi

cd /usr/lib/mailman/bin

./list_lists -b | while read L
do
         ./find_member -l ${L} $1 |      \
                 grep \@ |               \
                 cut -d " " -f 1 >>      \
                 /tmp/found-mailman
done

sort -u < /tmp/found-mailman > /tmp/found2-mailman
echo "The following userids will be deleted from ALL"
echo "Mailman mailing lists on this server."
echo
cat /tmp/found2-mailman
echo
echo Proper response must be '"Yes" (with a capital letter Y)'
echo Anything else and the delete wlil be aborted
echo -n "Continue [Yes|No]":" "
read response
echo

if [ "$response" == "Yes" ]; then
./remove_members --fromall --nouserack -f /tmp/found2-mailman
else
         echo Delete aborted...
fi

rm /tmp/found-mailman /tmp/found2-mailman



From debkarimoto at cox.net  Sat Nov 21 00:17:15 2009
From: debkarimoto at cox.net (Debbie Karimoto)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:17:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot read moderated posts on iPhone
Message-ID: <01b901ca6a37$99393850$cbaba8f0$@net>

I had previously been able to easily read posts requiring my moderating
attention on my iPhone but recently the sender's message is a
mime-attachment icon on my phone and is not readable at all. The host says
they did not make any changes, Apple says it is not a problem with my phone
yet I still cannot read the posts from my phone. Any ideas? I really must be
able to read these moderated posts from my phone sometimes.

 

Thanks,

 

~Debbie

 


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Sat Nov 21 16:12:39 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:12:39 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List all members of All lists
In-Reply-To: <4B07F9D9.1030601@uga.edu>
References: <4B06E98E.4070909@uga.edu> <4B07037A.5060009@mschuette.name>
	<4B07F9D9.1030601@uga.edu>
Message-ID: <20091121151239.GY24624@amyl.org.uk>

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 09:31:53AM -0500, Harold Pritchett wrote:
> Thanks for the ideas.  Here's what I ended up with:
> 
> USER=$(/usr/bin/id -un)
> 
> if [ $USER != root ] ; then
>     echo This command must be run as root

I see no reason to run it as root: it should work with any
user-account where the user's a member of the mailman/list &c 
group.

> cat /tmp/found2-mailman

And here I'd use less over cat.

YMMV ;)

a

-- 
``Cabbage-- the opinions of taxi drivers.''
  (new definitions, from `I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue')

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov 21 16:54:31 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:54:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot read moderated posts on iPhone
In-Reply-To: <01b901ca6a37$99393850$cbaba8f0$@net>
Message-ID: <PC195200911210754310937faba7a08@msapiro>

Debbie Karimotowrote:

>I had previously been able to easily read posts requiring my moderating
>attention on my iPhone but recently the sender's message is a
>mime-attachment icon on my phone and is not readable at all. The host says
>they did not make any changes, Apple says it is not a problem with my phone
>yet I still cannot read the posts from my phone. Any ideas? I really must be
>able to read these moderated posts from my phone sometimes.


The admin_immed_notify moderated posts messages are and always have
been a MIME multipart message with 3 sub-parts. The first sub-part is
text/plain and is the notice to the admin about the held message; the
second is a message/rfc822 part containing the held message itself,
and the third is a message/rfc822 part containing the message you can
reply to to discard or, with the addition of an Approved: <password>
header or line, accept the held message.

My best guess as to what changed is the iPhone mail app.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Sat Nov 21 22:28:50 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:28:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman current version?
In-Reply-To: <3226106B-252B-42AE-8502-8FDDF27F7715@python.org>
References: <PC1952009111819542106563b315665@msapiro>
	<3226106B-252B-42AE-8502-8FDDF27F7715@python.org>
Message-ID: <D23AD514-5B79-4E73-BC89-66D82705AC24@kreme.com>

On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:58, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:

> or more radically, as a separate project that talks to the API).

Ooo, that sound like a great idea.


From andale at excaliburworld.com  Sun Nov 22 09:55:31 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:55:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
Message-ID: <p06240812c72eabf1a518@[64.142.30.27]>

Given my current situation (as rare as this situation may be), I have 
come to realize that an emergency broadcast feature would be an 
indispensable tool to have right now.  Since my host made the alias 
change on my mailing list, but did not create the MX record for the 
new email, it is currently impossible to post to our mailing list via 
email.  I can't even tell people why the list isn't working.

With an emergency broadcast feature on the website (a way to send a 
message to the list using the Mailman mailing list admin page), I 
could at least get word to everyone that the mailing list will be 
down until Monday.

Bill

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Sun Nov 22 15:49:41 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:49:41 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <p06240812c72eabf1a518@[64.142.30.27]>
References: <p06240812c72eabf1a518@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <20091122144941.GZ24624@amyl.org.uk>

On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 12:55:31AM -0800, Bill Catambay wrote:
> Given my current situation (as rare as this situation may be), I have 
> come to realize that an emergency broadcast feature would be an 
> indispensable tool to have right now.  Since my host made the alias 
> change on my mailing list, but did not create the MX record for the 
> new email, it is currently impossible to post to our mailing list via 
> email.  

Fall back to A record(s)?

> I can't even tell people why the list isn't working.

*spit* if you feel you must, and can access the web-interface, why not
pull a list of subscribers, and blindly mail all of them. 

> With an emergency broadcast feature on the website (a way to send a 
> message to the list using the Mailman mailing list admin page), I 
> could at least get word to everyone that the mailing list will be 
> down until Monday.

Although if there are no DNS records for the list, MTAs will
probably reject your pseudo-list mail as part of their checks: so
whilst the mail may send, it won't necessarily be received.

I'd think using competent service providers, with prompt fix-times
would be more useful.


-- 
``Any person who knowingly causes a nuclear weapon test explosion
  or any other nuclear explosion is guilty of an offence....''
  (Nuclear Explosions Act, 1998)

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov 22 16:36:29 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:36:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <p06240812c72eabf1a518@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>

Bill Catambay wrote:

>Given my current situation (as rare as this situation may be), I have 
>come to realize that an emergency broadcast feature would be an 
>indispensable tool to have right now.  Since my host made the alias 
>change on my mailing list, but did not create the MX record for the 
>new email, it is currently impossible to post to our mailing list via 
>email.  I can't even tell people why the list isn't working.


I think you misunderstood my prior post. The issue has nothing directly
to do with MX records. The problem (I think) is the MX records for the
domain (DNS records are for domains, not email addresses) point to
servers that apparently have not been configured to relay the
foo-list-mod local address to the Mailman server. This is a MTA
configuration issue on the MX MTAs, not a DNS issue.


>With an emergency broadcast feature on the website (a way to send a 
>message to the list using the Mailman mailing list admin page), I 
>could at least get word to everyone that the mailing list will be 
>down until Monday.


This could be done with bin/inject on the Mailman server to inject a
message directly into Mailman's in/ queue bypassing the MTA, but you
don't have the required access. Since you don't have the required
access, I do see the need in your case, but this won't happen before
MM3 if then.

You could do as Adam McGreggor suggests and just send one or more BCC
type emails to the subscribers. See <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Nov 22 21:35:26 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:35:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
Message-ID: <30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>

On Nov 22, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> This could be done with bin/inject on the Mailman server to inject a
> message directly into Mailman's in/ queue bypassing the MTA, but you
> don't have the required access. Since you don't have the required
> access, I do see the need in your case, but this won't happen before
> MM3 if then.

We can repeat the mantra -- Mailman was *NEVER* designed to be used in a Service Provider environment, especially not with multiple customers who may have very different needs, and most especially not when the Service Provider in question doesn't actually provide any of the necessary support to go along with the software.

If I could shoot every single service provider who just threw up whatever kind of crap they thought they could make stick and make a point of avoiding all the necessary support, there would be many, many fewer crappy providers in this world.


At the very least, you should find a different provider where they actually give you the support you require.

--
Brad Knowles <bradknowles at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From andale at excaliburworld.com  Sun Nov 22 21:53:26 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:53:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <p06240816c72f54150dbf@[64.142.30.27]>

The weekend crew at my ISP are general tech support (i.e., they 
really only handle internet connection issues).  My ISP does have an 
Operations group which usually are pretty knowledgeable, but I they 
simply aren't working on the weekend.

For what it's worth, they are the best ISP I have had in 20 years 
(and I've been through a few).  They are rated #1 in customer support 
in the Bay Area for a reason, and for that reason I would never find 
a new ISP.  I'm still hopeful that they can get me through the 
Mailman customization I am requesting.

When I used Autoshare listserver software, it ran on my home server 
(a Mac), and I never had to rely on anyone for support (handled 
everything myself).  Unfortunately, that software has not been 
updated in over 10 years and is no longer supported (there isn't even 
a version that runs on Mac OS X, only a classic version).  I noticed 
my ISP offered mailing lists (using Mailman), and I made the move 
this year to migrate all my lists.

Bill

At 2:35 PM -0600 on 11/22/09, Brad Knowles wrote:


>We can repeat the mantra -- Mailman was *NEVER* designed to be used 
>in a Service Provider environment, especially not with multiple 
>customers who may have very different needs, and most especially not 
>when the Service Provider in question doesn't actually provide any 
>of the necessary support to go along with the software.
>
>If I could shoot every single service provider who just threw up 
>whatever kind of crap they thought they could make stick and make a 
>point of avoiding all the necessary support, there would be many, 
>many fewer crappy providers in this world.
>
>
>At the very least, you should find a different provider where they 
>actually give you the support you require.



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Sun Nov 22 22:04:00 2009
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 15:04:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <p06240816c72f54150dbf@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <C72F0360.86106%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 11/22/09 2:53 PM, Bill Catambay at andale at excaliburworld.com wrote:

> When I used Autoshare listserver software, it ran on my home server
> (a Mac), and I never had to rely on anyone for support (handled
> everything myself).  Unfortunately, that software has not been
> updated in over 10 years and is no longer supported (there isn't even
> a version that runs on Mac OS X, only a classic version).  I noticed
> my ISP offered mailing lists (using Mailman), and I made the move
> this year to migrate all my lists.

Assuming you can still run servers at home with your ISP, you can run
Mailman on Max OS X. While Apple provides a modified version with OS X
Server, it is easy to install from source on OS X client and instructions to
do so can be found in the Archived.

I am currently running Mailman 2.1.12 on Leopard (on a PPC iMac not that
that will make any difference).
 
-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From kremels at kreme.com  Sun Nov 22 22:44:14 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:44:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <p06240816c72f54150dbf@[64.142.30.27]>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
	<p06240816c72f54150dbf@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <5025778D-B56F-4D53-9DE3-C180191C96E8@kreme.com>

On 22-Nov-2009, at 13:53, Bill Catambay wrote:
> When I used Autoshare listserver software, it ran on my home server (a Mac), and I never had to rely on anyone for support (handled everything myself).  Unfortunately, that software has not been updated in over 10 years and is no longer supported (there isn't even a version that runs on Mac OS X, only a classic version).  I noticed my ISP offered mailing lists (using Mailman), and I made the move this year to migrate all my list


Run mailman on your OS X machine. Setup postfix on your OS X machine to relay via your ISP.

There you go, no muss, no fuss, and no relying on anyone else.

-- 
I thought that they were angels, but to my surprise, we climbed
	aboard their starship, we headed for the skies.


From sales at justbrits.com  Sun Nov 22 23:00:42 2009
From: sales at justbrits.com (Sales at " Just Brits ")
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:00:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <4B09B48A.1040701@justbrits.com>

<<

On Nov 22, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> > This could be done with bin/inject on the Mailman server to inject a
> > message directly into Mailman's in/ queue bypassing the MTA, but you
> > don't have the required access. Since you don't have the required
> > access, I do see the need in your case, but this won't happen before
> > MM3 if then.
>   

We can repeat the mantra -- Mailman was *NEVER* designed to be used in a Service Provider environment, especially not with multiple customers who may have very different needs, and most especially not when the Service Provider in question doesn't actually provide any of the necessary support to go along with the software.

If I could shoot every single service provider who just threw up whatever kind of crap they thought they could make stick and make a point of avoiding all the necessary support, there would be many, many fewer crappy providers in this world.


At the very least, you should find a different provider where they actually give you the support you require.

--
Brad Knowles <bradknowles at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

------------------------------------------------------
>>

And I would suspect Brad, that would include most [if not all] CPanel
installs.  I've had three ISPs WITH CP and the CP version of MM.
NONE of the ISP Tech 'levels' know [and apparently do NOT care]
next to nothing about MM.

In a couple on instances I have HAD to tell Bluehost Level 3 Tech
what to do THANKS to MM-users Listers [from reading their probs]
with the inputs of Mark being the Godsend <VBG> !!!

Ed




















































































































































































 >>

From ge at linuxbox.org  Mon Nov 23 01:14:17 2009
From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:14:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At the very least, you should find a different provider where they actually give you the support you require.

Brad, crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful feature?

I remember a few occasion when I needed to grab the subscribers list and
email everyone personally. Doing it from the main interface could be
useful as an "announcement" feature, although I am unsure if it fits
with what the vision of mailman is.



> --
> Brad Knowles <bradknowles at shub-internet.org>
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ge%40linuxbox.org
> 


-- 
Gadi Evron,
ge at linuxbox.org.

Blog: http://gevron.livejournal.com/


From kremels at kreme.com  Mon Nov 23 03:42:16 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:42:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
	<4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
Message-ID: <408C9E7E-A444-4EED-A184-1348D5222DFF@kreme.com>

On 22-Nov-2009, at 17:14, Gadi Evron wrote:
> Brad, crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful feature?

It could be useful in a very narrow set of circumstances. the question is, is it worth putting resources into such a feature for those very few times this would be useful?

My sense is that getting the list of users and sending a Bcc to them is a workable solution, but I'm not tied to that position.

-- 
"If I were willing to change my morals for convenience or financial gain,
	we wouldn't be arguing, because I'd already *be* a Republican." 
	-- Wil Shipley


From terri at zone12.com  Mon Nov 23 07:24:35 2009
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:24:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <408C9E7E-A444-4EED-A184-1348D5222DFF@kreme.com>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>	<4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
	<408C9E7E-A444-4EED-A184-1348D5222DFF@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <4B0A2AA3.3060601@zone12.com>

LuKreme wrote:
> On 22-Nov-2009, at 17:14, Gadi Evron wrote:
>> Brad, crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful feature?
> 
> It could be useful in a very narrow set of circumstances. the question is, is it worth putting resources into such a feature for those very few times this would be useful?
> 
> My sense is that getting the list of users and sending a Bcc to them is a workable solution, but I'm not tied to that position.

I'm going to go with "useful, but not useful enough to put major 
resources into implementing"

Maybe a nice in-between solution would be making sure the 
FAQ/Documentation had an entry saying "if you need to get an emergency 
message out and Mailman is not working, here's how to get the whole 
subscriber list and send a Bcc'ed mail"  Anyone want to volunteer to 
stick that in the wiki so people can find it in the future?

(Or just write up a quick definition and email me, and I can stick it in 
the wiki in the appropriate place.)

  Terri

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov 23 09:42:47 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:42:47 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Service provider environments
In-Reply-To: <30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <87ljhxskc8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > We can repeat the mantra -- Mailman was *NEVER* designed to be used
 > in a Service Provider environment, especially not with multiple
 > customers who may have very different needs,

That's technically true, but Mailman has grown a long list of features
that make it attractive to service providers, and it comes pretty
close.  It is not surprising that ISPs (ab)use it.  One big problem
that I see is that the VARs who repackage Mailman in ISP-oriented ways
(principally Cpanel and Plesk) have been unwilling to contribute back
(and even the FAQ deprecating their offerings doesn't seem to faze
them).[1]

AFAIK one of the goals of MM3 is to improve some of the obvious
sticking points, like support for virtual hosting.  That won't help
people who have bad ISPs, but for people where the ISPs are trying but
inexperienced, we should try to remove as many of the traps and snares
as possible.

We also need to improve the administrative interface.  Mark (and you,
inter alia) have spent *way* too much time typing five levels of menu
navigation into answers to "how do I ..." questions.



Footnotes: 
[1]  I'm very aware that's easier said than done, and likely to be
quite expensive for them to get their features into upstream Mailman,
compared to a quick hack that works in their intended environment.
Still, they should *try*.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov 23 09:48:39 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:48:39 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
	<4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
Message-ID: <87k4xhsk2g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Gadi Evron writes:

 > crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful
 > feature?

I think that, as Mark alludes to, this feature would be harder to
implement usefully than you'd think.  It sounds easy, but remember, in
a very large share cases where it would be useful *your mail system is
already broken*.  A trivial example: most of the cases where I've
wanted something like it, the host was crashed, and simply not
available.  In other cases, it seems that Mailman is for some reason
unable to send mail; why would it be more able to send mail received
via HTTP than mail received by SMTP?



From andale at excaliburworld.com  Mon Nov 23 10:41:23 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:41:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <87k4xhsk2g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
	<4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
	<87k4xhsk2g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p0624081bc73008985c59@[64.142.30.27]>

1. Mailman aliases not working (like in my case)
2. Unable to access my email, but have access to web (which is common 
for those of us behind corporate firewalls)
3. My email is broken, but my internet it still working

However, even with these reasons, I wouldn't consider it a big deal, 
especially if it's difficult to implement.  After my list is working 
again, I'll probably forget all about it.  :)


At 5:48 PM +0900 on 11/23/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:


>Gadi Evron writes:
>
>  > crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful
>  > feature?
>
>I think that, as Mark alludes to, this feature would be harder to
>implement usefully than you'd think.  It sounds easy, but remember, in
>a very large share cases where it would be useful *your mail system is
>already broken*.  A trivial example: most of the cases where I've
>wanted something like it, the host was crashed, and simply not
>available.  In other cases, it seems that Mailman is for some reason
>unable to send mail; why would it be more able to send mail received
>via HTTP than mail received by SMTP?



From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov 23 11:32:25 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:32:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <p0624081bc73008985c59@[64.142.30.27]>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
	<4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
	<87k4xhsk2g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p0624081bc73008985c59@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <87fx85v8ee.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Bill Catambay writes:

 > 1. Mailman aliases not working (like in my case)
 > 2. Unable to access my email, but have access to web (which is common 
 > for those of us behind corporate firewalls)
 > 3. My email is broken, but my internet it still working
 > 
 > However, even with these reasons, I wouldn't consider it a big deal, 
 > especially if it's difficult to implement.  After my list is working 
 > again, I'll probably forget all about it.  :)

Note that I didn't deny use cases, I said it would be hard to
implement usefully.  For example, in the case that the mailman aliases
aren't working, people *will* reply: "when do you expect it back up?"
Because the mail system is currently not working, these will come
through in a batch when things are fixed.  What do to about them,
especially since they're completely useless in this scenario?  There
is also the issue of what to put in From, and things like that.  Will
there be one-size-fits-all solution, or will the emergency poster have
to set them appropriately?  In the latter case, are there traps that
the poster should avoid?  Do the appropriate settings depend on other
list settings (eg, reply-to munging)?


From ge at linuxbox.org  Mon Nov 23 12:32:54 2009
From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:32:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <87k4xhsk2g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>	<4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
	<87k4xhsk2g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4B0A72E6.50104@linuxbox.org>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Gadi Evron writes:
> 
>  > crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful
>  > feature?
> 
> I think that, as Mark alludes to, this feature would be harder to
> implement usefully than you'd think.  It sounds easy, but remember, in
> a very large share cases where it would be useful *your mail system is
> already broken*.  A trivial example: most of the cases where I've
> wanted something like it, the host was crashed, and simply not
> available.  In other cases, it seems that Mailman is for some reason
> unable to send mail; why would it be more able to send mail received
> via HTTP than mail received by SMTP?
> 

Actually, I spoke of a possible _announcement_ feature, not an emergency 
feature.


From ge at linuxbox.org  Mon Nov 23 12:34:27 2009
From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:34:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <p0624081bc73008985c59@[64.142.30.27]>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
	<4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
	<87k4xhsk2g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p0624081bc73008985c59@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <4B0A7343.3080705@linuxbox.org>

Bill Catambay wrote:
> 1. Mailman aliases not working (like in my case)
> 2. Unable to access my email, but have access to web (which is common 
> for those of us behind corporate firewalls)
> 3. My email is broken, but my internet it still working
> 
> However, even with these reasons, I wouldn't consider it a big deal, 
> especially if it's difficult to implement.  After my list is working 
> again, I'll probably forget all about it.  :)

Yes, but are list admins always mailman admins or have access to the 
machine?

The only questions which seem relevant are:
1. Is this useful enough?
2. Does it fit with Mailman's vision?
3. How difficult is it to implement?




> 
> At 5:48 PM +0900 on 11/23/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> 
> 
>> Gadi Evron writes:
>>
>>  > crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful
>>  > feature?
>>
>> I think that, as Mark alludes to, this feature would be harder to
>> implement usefully than you'd think.  It sounds easy, but remember, in
>> a very large share cases where it would be useful *your mail system is
>> already broken*.  A trivial example: most of the cases where I've
>> wanted something like it, the host was crashed, and simply not
>> available.  In other cases, it seems that Mailman is for some reason
>> unable to send mail; why would it be more able to send mail received
>> via HTTP than mail received by SMTP?
> 
> 


-- 
Gadi Evron,
ge at linuxbox.org.

Blog: http://gevron.livejournal.com/

From kremels at kreme.com  Mon Nov 23 14:31:27 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:31:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Service provider environments
In-Reply-To: <87ljhxskc8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
	<87ljhxskc8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <A6BF6741-A811-43D4-B950-5BEB974F251C@kreme.com>

On Nov 23, 2009, at 1:42, "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>  
wrote:

> We also need to improve the administrative interface.  Mark (and you,
> inter alia) have spent *way* too much time typing five levels of menu
> navigation into answers to "how do I ..." questions.

Oh yeah, the UI has much room for improvement. Even having used  
mailman for years I dont use the admin pages every day, so I find  
myself clicking through multiple pages trying to find some setting.


From barry at python.org  Mon Nov 23 16:29:30 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:29:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Service provider environments
In-Reply-To: <A6BF6741-A811-43D4-B950-5BEB974F251C@kreme.com>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
	<87ljhxskc8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<A6BF6741-A811-43D4-B950-5BEB974F251C@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <F990854C-9776-460C-BA3B-00D695E6201A@python.org>

On Nov 23, 2009, at 8:31 AM, LuKreme wrote:

> On Nov 23, 2009, at 1:42, "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>  
> wrote:
>
>> We also need to improve the administrative interface.  Mark (and you,
>> inter alia) have spent *way* too much time typing five levels of menu
>> navigation into answers to "how do I ..." questions.
>
> Oh yeah, the UI has much room for improvement. Even having used  
> mailman for years I dont use the admin pages every day, so I find  
> myself clicking through multiple pages trying to find some setting.

I'd like to invite those of you who really care about the admin pages  
to join the mailman-developers list and engage there.  It's totally  
okay if you're not a coder, as long as you're willing to provide  
constructive input (use cases, etc.) to the cause.

-Barry

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From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Nov 23 16:42:28 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:42:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
	<4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
Message-ID: <A2994415-B50B-4973-98C2-66192D09C8EA@shub-internet.org>

On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gadi Evron wrote:

> Brad Knowles wrote:
>> At the very least, you should find a different provider where they actually give you the support you require.
> 
> Brad, crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful feature?

I can see that it might be a useful feature, yes.

However, the laundry list of "useful features" that could be added to Mailman is several miles long and almost as wide, and I'm not qualified to judge where on that laundry list this particular feature would/should fall -- I'll leave that to the Mailman developers, like Barry and Mark.

--
Brad Knowles <bradknowles at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 23 16:56:37 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 07:56:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <4B0A72E6.50104@linuxbox.org>
Message-ID: <PC195200911230756370296908e670d@msapiro>

Gadi Evron wrote:
>
>Actually, I spoke of a possible _announcement_ feature, not an emergency 
>feature.


I see two requests in this thread. The original appeared to be a
request for a way to send a regular post to a list via the admin web
interface, which would be useful in cases where for whatever reason,
the list was working but email delivery to the list was not.

The second request, which might also satisfy the first if it were
implemented as a web service, seems to be for a way to send a message
right now to all members of a list (or all lists?) regardless of
digest and nomail settings.

For reasons already mentioned by Stephen and others, I don't think the
first is useful enough to justify, but the second is something we can
consider for MM3.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From andale at excaliburworld.com  Mon Nov 23 17:04:24 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:04:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <87fx85v8ee.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
	<4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
	<87k4xhsk2g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p0624081bc73008985c59@[64.142.30.27]>
	<87fx85v8ee.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p0624081dc73061fb4fab@[64.142.30.27]>

At 7:32 PM +0900 on 11/23/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:


>Bill Catambay writes:
>
>  > 1. Mailman aliases not working (like in my case)
>  > 2. Unable to access my email, but have access to web (which is common
>  > for those of us behind corporate firewalls)
>  > 3. My email is broken, but my internet it still working
>  >
>  > However, even with these reasons, I wouldn't consider it a big deal,
>  > especially if it's difficult to implement.  After my list is working
>  > again, I'll probably forget all about it.  :)
>
>Note that I didn't deny use cases, I said it would be hard to
>implement usefully.  For example, in the case that the mailman aliases
>aren't working, people *will* reply: "when do you expect it back up?"
>Because the mail system is currently not working, these will come
>through in a batch when things are fixed.  What do to about them,
>especially since they're completely useless in this scenario?  There
>is also the issue of what to put in From, and things like that.  Will
>there be one-size-fits-all solution, or will the emergency poster have
>to set them appropriately?  In the latter case, are there traps that
>the poster should avoid?  Do the appropriate settings depend on other
>list settings (eg, reply-to munging)?

Well, for what it's worth, in *my* situation, all posts come to me, 
which I am currently just holding, including "when do you expect it 
back up" but really more of "thanks for all the work you do" 
messages.  This is one of the reasons I like to moderate the list 
this way, as I do often get direct emails that were intended for the 
list, and this way I can read them and appropriately file them (i.e., 
they won't be going out to the list once the list is working).

As far as what to put in the FROM, I would say the name could be 
"Foo-list Emergency Notification", and in the FROM email would be the 
"foo-list" email (which, in my case, come to me), or perhaps just to 
the "foo-list-owner" email (which should work okay for other lists as 
well).

From barry at python.org  Mon Nov 23 17:05:33 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:05:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911230756370296908e670d@msapiro>
References: <PC195200911230756370296908e670d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5941829A-B6CB-4E39-B4ED-FECAE0FC7391@python.org>

On Nov 23, 2009, at 10:56 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> The second request, which might also satisfy the first if it were
> implemented as a web service, seems to be for a way to send a message
> right now to all members of a list (or all lists?) regardless of
> digest and nomail settings.

Actually, MM2 already implements this, though the UI is crufty.  Send  
a message with an Urgent: header that contains the admin password and  
it's supposed to be sent as a direct message to all subscribers.

-Barry

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From andale at excaliburworld.com  Mon Nov 23 17:12:04 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:12:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911230756370296908e670d@msapiro>
References: <PC195200911230756370296908e670d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p0624081fc73064c5f6d9@[64.142.30.27]>

At 7:56 AM -0800 on 11/23/09, Mark Sapiro wrote:


>
>I see two requests in this thread. The original appeared to be a
>request for a way to send a regular post to a list via the admin web
>interface, which would be useful in cases where for whatever reason,
>the list was working but email delivery to the list was not.
>
>The second request, which might also satisfy the first if it were
>implemented as a web service, seems to be for a way to send a message
>right now to all members of a list (or all lists?) regardless of
>digest and nomail settings.
>
>For reasons already mentioned by Stephen and others, I don't think the
>first is useful enough to justify, but the second is something we can
>consider for MM3.

The second works for me.

From andale at excaliburworld.com  Mon Nov 23 17:15:08 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:15:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <5941829A-B6CB-4E39-B4ED-FECAE0FC7391@python.org>
References: <PC195200911230756370296908e670d@msapiro>
	<5941829A-B6CB-4E39-B4ED-FECAE0FC7391@python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240820c7306555188e@[64.142.30.27]>

At 11:05 AM -0500 on 11/23/09, Barry Warsaw wrote:


>>The second request, which might also satisfy the first if it were
>>implemented as a web service, seems to be for a way to send a message
>>right now to all members of a list (or all lists?) regardless of
>>digest and nomail settings.
>
>Actually, MM2 already implements this, though the UI is crufty. 
>Send a message with an Urgent: header that contains the admin 
>password and it's supposed to be sent as a direct message to all 
>subscribers.


If by "send a message", you mean email a message to the normal 
foo-list email address, then I'm back to square one (i.e., it will 
never reach anyone on the list because of the aliases being whacked).

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 23 17:14:45 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:14:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <5941829A-B6CB-4E39-B4ED-FECAE0FC7391@python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952009112308144509680f5369b5@msapiro>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>On Nov 23, 2009, at 10:56 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> The second request, which might also satisfy the first if it were
>> implemented as a web service, seems to be for a way to send a message
>> right now to all members of a list (or all lists?) regardless of
>> digest and nomail settings.
>
>Actually, MM2 already implements this, though the UI is crufty.  Send  
>a message with an Urgent: header that contains the admin password and  
>it's supposed to be sent as a direct message to all subscribers.


I knew I'd seen that somewhere. Problem was I looked for it as an RFE
and not as an existing feature :)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Mon Nov 23 17:20:31 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:20:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009112308144509680f5369b5@msapiro>
References: <PC1952009112308144509680f5369b5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <443AE1EF-02CB-455C-92F3-80F1F97C2522@python.org>

On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I knew I'd seen that somewhere. Problem was I looked for it as an RFE
> and not as an existing feature :)

:)
-Barry

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From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Mon Nov 23 17:28:19 2009
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:28:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <A2994415-B50B-4973-98C2-66192D09C8EA@shub-internet.org>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
	<4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
	<A2994415-B50B-4973-98C2-66192D09C8EA@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <1258993699.9174.28.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 09:42 -0600, Brad Knowles wrote:
> However, the laundry list of "useful features" that could be added to
> Mailman is several miles long and almost as wide, and I'm not
> qualified to judge where on that laundry list this particular feature
> would/should fall -- I'll leave that to the Mailman developers, like
> Barry and Mark.

This is just a thought, since I'm not familiar with the technical
details of implementing it, but it seems to be a trend.

An ever-increasing number of software packages support the installation
of 3rd party extensions, said extensions supporting the activities of
installation, deactivation and removal, leaving the core system
unaltered.  This provides end users (mail admins in the case of Mailman)
with the option of installing as few or as many "extra" features as they
need or want, and offloads the task of providing everything that
everyone wants from the core developers onto a wider community of
peripheral developers who know how to work with the core package's
extension API.  Mailman has a hint of this capability already, in the
withlist utility which I've used with great success to develop a program
to expunge lists of clueless AOL users who complain to AOL that opt-in
list posts they receive from a Mailman-served list are spam.

I have no idea how this might be implemented, but I've worked with
Python a bunch and I'm seriously impressed with its power and
flexibility.  There's nothing that can't be done with Python except mend
a broken heart and fix breakfast.

<goes off to fix breakfast ....>

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Never expect the people who caused a problem
FMP Computer Services |  to solve it."  - Albert Einstein
512-259-1190          |        
http://www.fmp.com    |


From andale at excaliburworld.com  Mon Nov 23 17:05:29 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:05:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <4B0A72E6.50104@linuxbox.org>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
	<4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
	<87k4xhsk2g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<4B0A72E6.50104@linuxbox.org>
Message-ID: <p0624081ec7306318927c@[64.142.30.27]>

At 1:32 PM +0200 on 11/23/09, Gadi Evron wrote:


>Actually, I spoke of a possible _announcement_ feature, not an 
>emergency feature.

"Announcement" feature would be better, since it's not always going 
to be an "emergency" (and would still work in my situation).
-- 
                 ,,,
                (o o)
===========oOO==(_)==OOo=============

Bill Catambay
Santa Clara, CA
bill.catambay at excaliburworld.com
"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen,
and thinking what nobody has thought."

             .oooO  Oooo.
============(   )==(   )=============
              \ (    ) /
               \_)  (_/

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 23 17:52:23 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:52:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <p06240820c7306555188e@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <PC19520091123085223056288671a09@msapiro>

Bill Catambay wrote:
>
>If by "send a message", you mean email a message to the normal 
>foo-list email address, then I'm back to square one (i.e., it will 
>never reach anyone on the list because of the aliases being whacked).


But, I hope you understand that your specific need/situation - email
delivery to the list broken by the hosting provider, by incompletely
implementing your requested change in the delivery of the normal list
posting address and a new 'moderator posting' address on a Friday with
insufficient testing and then leaving for the weekend - is so rare as
to possibly never occur again.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From andale at excaliburworld.com  Mon Nov 23 17:54:58 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:54:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <PC19520091123085223056288671a09@msapiro>
References: <PC19520091123085223056288671a09@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240824c7306ebb4c7e@[64.142.30.27]>

At 8:52 AM -0800 on 11/23/09, Mark Sapiro wrote:


>Bill Catambay wrote:
>>
>>If by "send a message", you mean email a message to the normal
>>foo-list email address, then I'm back to square one (i.e., it will
>>never reach anyone on the list because of the aliases being whacked).
>
>
>But, I hope you understand that your specific need/situation - email
>delivery to the list broken by the hosting provider, by incompletely
>implementing your requested change in the delivery of the normal list
>posting address and a new 'moderator posting' address on a Friday with
>insufficient testing and then leaving for the weekend - is so rare as
>to possibly never occur again.
>

Very true.  (especially after the support survey I just completed)

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 23 17:59:47 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:59:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <4B0A2AA3.3060601@zone12.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952009112308594707500f5368dd@msapiro>

Terri Oda wrote:
>
>Maybe a nice in-between solution would be making sure the 
>FAQ/Documentation had an entry saying "if you need to get an emergency 
>message out and Mailman is not working, here's how to get the whole 
>subscriber list and send a Bcc'ed mail"  Anyone want to volunteer to 
>stick that in the wiki so people can find it in the future?


There is already a FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9> that gives the
various ways to get a membership list. The problem is than in many if
not most "Mailman is not working" cases, none of these methods will
work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Mon Nov 23 18:09:32 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:09:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <1258993699.9174.28.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <PC1952009112207362903591da4f384@msapiro>
	<30B356B0-369E-4A34-8CE6-45B0E7C41F17@shub-internet.org>
	<4B09D3D9.6000909@linuxbox.org>
	<A2994415-B50B-4973-98C2-66192D09C8EA@shub-internet.org>
	<1258993699.9174.28.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <2EC9EDEC-1174-4892-8776-1241F433E32A@python.org>

On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:

> An ever-increasing number of software packages support the  
> installation
> of 3rd party extensions, said extensions supporting the activities of
> installation, deactivation and removal, leaving the core system
> unaltered.  This provides end users (mail admins in the case of  
> Mailman)
> with the option of installing as few or as many "extra" features as  
> they
> need or want, and offloads the task of providing everything that
> everyone wants from the core developers onto a wider community of
> peripheral developers who know how to work with the core package's
> extension API.  Mailman has a hint of this capability already, in the
> withlist utility which I've used with great success to develop a  
> program
> to expunge lists of clueless AOL users who complain to AOL that opt-in
> list posts they receive from a Mailman-served list are spam.

This is a goal of Mailman 3.  bin/withlist will still be there  
(largely unchanged), but the intent is to also support a plugin  
architecture to make it easy to extend Mailman in other ways, e.g. by  
adding handlers and other elements.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Mon Nov 23 18:10:31 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:10:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
In-Reply-To: <p06240820c7306555188e@[64.142.30.27]>
References: <PC195200911230756370296908e670d@msapiro>
	<5941829A-B6CB-4E39-B4ED-FECAE0FC7391@python.org>
	<p06240820c7306555188e@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <5D3ADBDD-0C80-493E-8865-E730878BB378@python.org>

On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:15 AM, Bill Catambay wrote:

> If by "send a message", you mean email a message to the normal foo- 
> list email address, then I'm back to square one (i.e., it will never  
> reach anyone on the list because of the aliases being whacked).

Honestly, I don't see Mailman doing anything about this.  If the MTA  
configuration is broken, you'll have to find other ways to communicate  
with your users until this is fixed.

-Barry

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From hone+mailman at oak.cats.ohiou.edu  Mon Nov 23 20:06:03 2009
From: hone+mailman at oak.cats.ohiou.edu (hone+mailman at oak.cats.ohiou.edu)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:06:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest cron time
Message-ID: <D4E41FB7CF70DEEB93556519@OIT-0029870948.ohio.edu>


Using Mailman version: 2.1.9
on RedHat

The time to deliver digest messages is set to noon. Is this a Mailman 
choice or a RedHat choice.

# Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold 
delivery.

It seems to me that sometime before 8am would be more logical. It would be 
interesting to know why noon was chosen. Thanks.

Don Hone
<http://edirectory.ohio.edu/?$search?uid=hone>
Ohio University

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 23 21:06:38 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:06:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest cron time
In-Reply-To: <D4E41FB7CF70DEEB93556519@OIT-0029870948.ohio.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1952009112312063801250f536663@msapiro>

hone+mailman at oak.cats.ohiou.edu wrote:
>
>The time to deliver digest messages is set to noon. Is this a Mailman 
>choice or a RedHat choice.
>
># Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold 
>delivery.
>
>It seems to me that sometime before 8am would be more logical. It would be 
>interesting to know why noon was chosen. Thanks.


I can't tell you why, but it's been noon at least since Mailman 2.0 in
November, 2000. Personally, my installation runs senddigests at 03:30,
but I imagine no one time would satisfy everyone.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From andale at excaliburworld.com  Tue Nov 24 01:02:24 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:02:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911202140380109eaaf3b93@msapiro>
References: <PC195200911202140380109eaaf3b93@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240851c730cd4f7728@[64.142.30.27]>

Okay, today was quite the rollercoaster.  I finally got an email from 
my ISP's Operations group stating that the foo-list-mod email was 
working, but when I tried, it didn't work.  Bounced just like before. 
I called them up, and when I told them it was still bouncing, they 
insisted that it was working, and said there was nothing further they 
could do for me.  At that point, I lost it, and despite a great track 
record they had for customer support, I laid into them.  It was like 
Jekyll turning into Hyde.  After stating that the mailing list was 
down for 4 days, and that it was still not working, along with a few 
other "choice" things I said about their level of support on this 
occasion, he said he would find a supervisor and find a resolution to 
the problem.

An hour later, I got an email indicating that they had fixed the 
problem.  Apparently, they created the foo-list-mod under an old 
listman sub-domain, rather than the "lists" sub-domain that everyone 
is using.  Once they fixed that, and foo-list-mod started working.

Given that they were ready to shut the door on this before even 
getting the alias fixed (not to mention that he added a blurb about 
how they probably should not have supported the request in the first 
place), I'm not hopeful that they are going to do anything with the 
customization request.

What I think I'll do is just remove the MOD flags on everyone (since 
no one knows about the special mod email)(yet).  I might start 
looking at installing Mailman on my OS X server (which is already 
running EIMS 3.3).

In any case, I did have one follow-up question (suggestion, actually, 
from a member of my list).  In the digests, is there any setting that 
is available to *me* that will let me put the digest prolog text 
(e.g., "To subscribe..., When replying..., etc., etc.) at the bottom 
of the digest instead of the top?  As the member stated, they see 
this info constantly, but doesn't need to be read often, and it gets 
in the way with the front of the digest that they are interested in.

Thanks,
Bill

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 24 01:21:05 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:21:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <p06240851c730cd4f7728@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <PC19520091123162105004611c965f3@msapiro>

Bill Catambay wrote:
>
>In any case, I did have one follow-up question (suggestion, actually, 
>from a member of my list).  In the digests, is there any setting that 
>is available to *me* that will let me put the digest prolog text 
>(e.g., "To subscribe..., When replying..., etc., etc.) at the bottom 
>of the digest instead of the top?


No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From andale at excaliburworld.com  Tue Nov 24 01:26:24 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:26:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <PC19520091123162105004611c965f3@msapiro>
References: <PC19520091123162105004611c965f3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p0624085dc730d89b1d1f@[64.142.30.27]>

How about changing the text?


At 4:21 PM -0800 on 11/23/09, Mark Sapiro wrote:


>Bill Catambay wrote:
>>
>>In any case, I did have one follow-up question (suggestion, actually,
>>from a member of my list).  In the digests, is there any setting that
>>is available to *me* that will let me put the digest prolog text
>>(e.g., "To subscribe..., When replying..., etc., etc.) at the bottom
>>of the digest instead of the top?
>
>
>No.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kremels at kreme.com  Tue Nov 24 01:26:59 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:26:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <PC19520091123162105004611c965f3@msapiro>
References: <PC19520091123162105004611c965f3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <A819CB9E-3A0C-4D1C-BAA2-A45776F4FE25@kreme.com>

On 23-Nov-2009, at 17:21, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Bill Catambay wrote:
>> In any case, I did have one follow-up question (suggestion, actually, 
>> from a member of my list).  In the digests, is there any setting that 
>> is available to *me* that will let me put the digest prolog text 
>> (e.g., "To subscribe..., When replying..., etc., etc.) at the bottom 
>> of the digest instead of the top?
> 
> No.

Heh. SHort and concise.

I THINK that the "No" really means that it is not possible. The Digest messages are sent out as multi-part mime messages. Each message in the digest is a separate mime part. The text of the actual message is the thing that appears to be a 'header' to your and your user, but it is not the header, it is the body of the message.

What I would recommend is making sure your client understands the mime digest format and can properly 'explode' it into individual messages. This way you never have to worry about the 'header'



-- 
If fashion is your trade then when you're naked I guess you must be
	unemployed.


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 24 01:38:41 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:38:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <p0624085dc730d89b1d1f@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <PC19520091123163841085911c96944@msapiro>

Bill Catambay wrote:

>How about changing the text?


The text is built from the masthead.txt template. A list specific
version of this template can be installed (see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9>), but not by *you* (unless you start
running your own Mailman). This is not one of the 4 templates that can
be edited through the list admin GUI, so the host would have to
install it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From andale at excaliburworld.com  Tue Nov 24 01:45:18 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:45:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <PC19520091123163841085911c96944@msapiro>
References: <PC19520091123163841085911c96944@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240860c730dce21db3@[64.142.30.27]>

Okay, thanks for the info.  I'll go stealth for awhile.  :)


At 4:38 PM -0800 on 11/23/09, Mark Sapiro wrote:


>Bill Catambay wrote:
>
>>How about changing the text?
>
>
>The text is built from the masthead.txt template. A list specific
>version of this template can be installed (see the FAQ at
><http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9>), but not by *you* (unless you start
>running your own Mailman). This is not one of the 4 templates that can
>be edited through the list admin GUI, so the host would have to
>install it.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 24 01:53:35 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:53:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <A819CB9E-3A0C-4D1C-BAA2-A45776F4FE25@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911231653350484039a7607@msapiro>

LuKreme wrote:
>
>I THINK that the "No" really means that it is not possible.


Not without modifying the source code.


>The Digest messages are sent out as multi-part mime messages. Each message in the digest is a separate mime part. The text of the actual message is the thing that appears to be a 'header' to your and your user, but it is not the header, it is the body of the message.


This is true of the MIME format digests, but list members can chose a
plain text digest which is a single text/plain part containing the
masthead, the table of contents and the (scrubbed) messages, and which
in a default installation with default list settings is the default
digest format.


>What I would recommend is making sure your client understands the mime digest format and can properly 'explode' it into individual messages. This way you never have to worry about the 'header'


And list owners and other list members would never have to deal with
posts with Subject: Re: listname Digest, Vol nn, Issue nn and bodies
consisting of "Yeah, me too" followed by a quote of the entire digest.

</rant>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Tue Nov 24 01:56:25 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:56:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911231653350484039a7607@msapiro>
References: <PC195200911231653350484039a7607@msapiro>
Message-ID: <3F66E5B9-E5FE-4C4A-907A-8637EBF00CC5@kreme.com>


On 23-Nov-2009, at 17:53, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> And list owners and other list members would never have to deal with
> posts with Subject: Re: listname Digest, Vol nn, Issue nn and bodies
> consisting of "Yeah, me too" followed by a quote of the entire digest.
> 
> </rant>


I'm hoping that in MM3 when someone does this a couple of things happen:

  1) the message is not posted
  2) they get a note from the list saying don't do that
  3) their mod bit is enabled.

-- 
You know, Rick, I have many a friend in Casablanca, but somehow, 
	just because you despise me, you are the only one I trust.


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Tue Nov 24 16:24:16 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:24:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to restore a subscribers list.
Message-ID: <4B0BFAA0.7020501@riverviewtech.net>

What is the Mailman procedure for restoring a backup copy of subscribers 
for a mailing list?  (Restoring an entire list over top of its self is 
ok if that is what I need to do.)

I have an odd situations that I'm not entirely sure I did not cause my 
self during a server migration.  I think during said migration a list 
that does bounce processing may have unsubscribed (in mass) 2,000 plus 
subscribers because of a temporary mail problem.

I have a backup (via BackupPC) of all Mailman files going back 30 days 
and I'd like to know what is the proper procedure to restore an 
individual mailing list.



Grant. . . .

From mailman-owner at rx7-world.net  Tue Nov 24 18:55:17 2009
From: mailman-owner at rx7-world.net (John)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:55:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call me Don Quixote...  :-(
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009111613020703755266e73e@msapiro>
References: <PC1952009111613020703755266e73e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B0C1E05.3060901@rx7-world.net>

Update: The smart host rejection problem that was affecting only 1 of the
Mailman lists on my server was fixed by my provider. No explanation or email
notifying me of the fix was provided... it just started working again Friday
morning.

Thanks all for you input,
John

From cstalberg at web-analysts.net  Tue Nov 24 12:52:54 2009
From: cstalberg at web-analysts.net (christian stalberg)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 06:52:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages not passed,
	content filtering settings ignored
In-Reply-To: <3F66E5B9-E5FE-4C4A-907A-8637EBF00CC5@kreme.com>
References: <PC195200911231653350484039a7607@msapiro>
	<3F66E5B9-E5FE-4C4A-907A-8637EBF00CC5@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <E20C6AC925AB494F998F1D6CF147038A@D3J1MNH1>

Why would HTML messages sent to the list be chanegd to plain text when I
have content filtering turned off via the GUI? Is it possible the GUI switch
is not working? If yes, how can I check 'under the hood'? Thank you in
advance.


From debkarimoto at cox.net  Wed Nov 25 03:48:51 2009
From: debkarimoto at cox.net (Debbie Karimoto)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:48:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot read moderated posts on iPhone
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911210754310937faba7a08@msapiro>
References: <01b901ca6a37$99393850$cbaba8f0$@net>
	<PC195200911210754310937faba7a08@msapiro>
Message-ID: <080301ca6d79$d239e380$76adaa80$@net>

I am curious if other iPhone users can read the moderated messages on their
phones. I had easily been able to until 1-2 months ago when I suddenly
couldn't anymore but I cannot pinpoint why and I would like to get that
ability back again. I can now read only the plain text portion but not the
2nd or 3rd sub-parts.

Thanks,

~Debbie


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 7:55 AM
To: Debbie Karimoto; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] cannot read moderated posts on iPhone

Debbie Karimotowrote:

>I had previously been able to easily read posts requiring my moderating
>attention on my iPhone but recently the sender's message is a
>mime-attachment icon on my phone and is not readable at all. The host says
>they did not make any changes, Apple says it is not a problem with my phone
>yet I still cannot read the posts from my phone. Any ideas? I really must
be
>able to read these moderated posts from my phone sometimes.


The admin_immed_notify moderated posts messages are and always have
been a MIME multipart message with 3 sub-parts. The first sub-part is
text/plain and is the notice to the admin about the held message; the
second is a message/rfc822 part containing the held message itself,
and the third is a message/rfc822 part containing the message you can
reply to to discard or, with the addition of an Approved: <password>
header or line, accept the held message.

My best guess as to what changed is the iPhone mail app.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From njm at spokanerainmaker.com  Tue Nov 24 22:24:46 2009
From: njm at spokanerainmaker.com (Norma Jean Mackay)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:24:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Export List
Message-ID: <7CE18377-E383-4A80-B4F0-4916720BA130@spokanerainmaker.com>

find / -name list_members -print

Sorry, not good at this, and not very experienced.  Trying to figure  
out how to export our Mailman list to a CSV file on my desktop...

Regarding the command above, where do I start?  Where do I use it?

Thanks so much,
Norma Jean



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 25 04:14:47 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:14:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages not passed,
	content filtering settings ignored
In-Reply-To: <E20C6AC925AB494F998F1D6CF147038A@D3J1MNH1>
Message-ID: <PC19520091124191447095333ef17a8@msapiro>

christian stalberg wrote:

>Why would HTML messages sent to the list be chanegd to plain text when I
>have content filtering turned off via the GUI? Is it possible the GUI switch
>is not working? If yes, how can I check 'under the hood'? Thank you in
>advance.


If filter_content is no, Mailman should not be doing any content
filtering or HTML to plain text conversion.

I can make a guess. Perhaps the message is multipart/alternative with
text/plain and text/html alternative parts and you are viewing the
received message  with an MUA (mail client) set to show you the plain
text, or perhaps you are seeing a 'scrubbed' message in a digest or
the archive or even the message from the list if Non-digest options ->
scrub_nondigest is set to Yes.

If you really want to look 'under the hood' look at the output from

 bin/config_list -o - LISTNAME

or

 bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck | grep filter_content

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 25 04:19:59 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:19:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Export List
In-Reply-To: <7CE18377-E383-4A80-B4F0-4916720BA130@spokanerainmaker.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952009112419195903596de96762@msapiro>

Norma Jean Mackay wrote:

>find / -name list_members -print
>
>Sorry, not good at this, and not very experienced.  Trying to figure  
>out how to export our Mailman list to a CSV file on my desktop...


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9>.

>Regarding the command above, where do I start?  Where do I use it?

Assuming the output of the above command is something like

/path/to/bin/find_members

try

/path/to/bin/find_members --help

Note that both the find command and the list_members command are run on
the Mailman server. If you do not have the required access to do this,
you need to use one of the other methods in the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 25 04:37:29 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:37:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to restore a subscribers list.
In-Reply-To: <4B0BFAA0.7020501@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <PC19520091124193729059333ef162e@msapiro>

Grant Taylor wrote:
>
>I have a backup (via BackupPC) of all Mailman files going back 30 days 
>and I'd like to know what is the proper procedure to restore an 
>individual mailing list.


The easiest way is just to copy the most recent good backup of
lists/LISTNAME/config.pck to the corresponding file on the server.

This will have some minor side effects such as resetting the issue
number of the digest and undoing any list configuration settings you
may have made in the mean time, but this is easy.

The alternative is to do something like bin/dumpdb on the backup
config.pck and extract the members from that or install it as
lists/temp_list/config.pck and then run

  bin/list_members -f -r temp_list \
  |bin/sync_members -w=yes -d=no -a=no real_list

  bin/list_members -f -d temp_list \
  |bin/sync_members -w=yes -d=yes -a=no real_list

but this will lose user option settings, digest type and passwords
(which is why you need to send welcome messages).

The former method is much cleaner as far as the users are concerned.

It would be possible to write a withlist script to retrieve only the
membership information from the backup config.pck and update the list
with it, but I'm not aware of any existing script.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 25 05:07:47 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:07:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Export List
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009112419195903596de96762@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1952009112420074700936de9664c@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Assuming the output of the above command is something like
>
>/path/to/bin/find_members
>
>try
>
>/path/to/bin/find_members --help


Sorry. I was typing faster than I was thinking (and if you saw how
slowly I type ...)

Anyway, that should be "/path/to/bin/list_members" (not find_members).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Wed Nov 25 10:50:04 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:50:04 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot read moderated posts on iPhone
In-Reply-To: <080301ca6d79$d239e380$76adaa80$@net>
References: <01b901ca6a37$99393850$cbaba8f0$@net>
	<PC195200911210754310937faba7a08@msapiro>
	<080301ca6d79$d239e380$76adaa80$@net>
Message-ID: <20091125095004.GN24624@amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 06:48:51PM -0800, Debbie Karimoto wrote:
> I am curious if other iPhone users can read the moderated messages on their
> phones. 

I can't read the parts; the onlypart that I can read is the "you've
got things to deal with, here's the few headers and a URI" part.

It's not so much effort, I just use the web-interface to view, from
there.

> I had easily been able to until 1-2 months ago when I suddenly
> couldn't anymore but I cannot pinpoint why and I would like to get that
> ability back again.

I would think it may be one of the upgrades; I'm running 3.1.2 (7D11).
Anyone still on 3.1 or 3.0, fancy giving it a shot?

-- 
``A corporation only needs to be competent in aggregate; that is their genius.
  They are inevitably made up of incompetents.'' (Francis Irving)

From glenm at locutory.org  Wed Nov 25 17:42:50 2009
From: glenm at locutory.org (glen martin)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:42:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting messages *to* non-members
Message-ID: <4B0D5E8A.8090005@locutory.org>

Apologies if this is a FAQ ... yadda yadda ... searched wiki, list 
archive, FAQs, even the documentation :)

I've got some rude users who occasionally cc non-list members on their 
messages to a restricted list that is actually intended to be private 
(membership by invitation only).  Then, as you might expect, when the 
non-member replies, that message is rejected or held for approval.  This 
doesn't seem friendly.

The root cause, though, is my users.  I'd therefore like to train them 
:) by rejecting their posts that copy non-members.

A natural spot for such an option would seem to be in Recipient filters, 
but I don't see anything there, nor in the rest of the options for that 
matter.
The mailing list discussions around non-members seem to have been 
dominated by discussion of messages from them, not to them.

Is there such an option, to reject messages that are {to,cc} 
non-members? Or suggestions?

Apologies again if this is obvious or a FAQ that I've somehow missed.

thanks

glen



From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Wed Nov 25 22:53:16 2009
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:53:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mandriva Upgrade Woes (as Usual)
Message-ID: <4B0DA74C.7030204@bellsouth.net>

Well, as usual, my upgrade of Mandriva to v 2010.0 has broken Mailman. I
once again humbly request help. Here is the traceback from 'mailmanctl
start':

/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py:32: DeprecationWarning: the sha module
is deprecated; use the hashlib module instead
  import sha
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 110, in <module>
    from Mailman.MailList import MailList
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 51, in <module>
    from Mailman.Archiver import Archiver
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/__init__.py", line 17, in <module>
    from Archiver import *
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 32, in <module>
    from Mailman import Mailbox
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 21, in <module>
    import mailbox
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/mailbox.py", line 19, in <module>
    import email.message
ImportError: No module named message


Thanks. Sigh!

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From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 26 02:18:15 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:18:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting messages *to* non-members
In-Reply-To: <4B0D5E8A.8090005@locutory.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952009112517181504537f5c1dd4@msapiro>

glen martin wrote:
>
>I've got some rude users who occasionally cc non-list members on their 
>messages to a restricted list that is actually intended to be private 
>(membership by invitation only).  Then, as you might expect, when the 
>non-member replies, that message is rejected or held for approval.  This 
>doesn't seem friendly.
>
>The root cause, though, is my users.  I'd therefore like to train them 
>:) by rejecting their posts that copy non-members.
>
>A natural spot for such an option would seem to be in Recipient filters, 
>but I don't see anything there, nor in the rest of the options for that 
>matter.


Actually, the best you can do is Recipient filters. If you set
require_explicit_destination to Yes and max_num_recipients to 2, any
post which is not explicitly addressed to and only to the list will be
held.

I.e. the list (or an acceptable alias) must be an explicit recipient or
the post will be held for implicit destination, and if there are 2 or
more explicit recipients, the post will be held for too many
recipients.

If you want more such as rejecting rather that holding the post and
accepting other explicit recipients as long as they are list members,
you will need a custom handler (see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>).


Keep in mind that whatever you do may be futile. If the 'rude' members
are insistent, they will quickly learn to Bcc: their non-member
recipients, and there's no way you'll even see that, at least until
the Bcc'd non-members reply.

Also, list members with more than one email address may legitimately
Cc: one of their other addresses that isn't a list member.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 26 02:30:30 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:30:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mandriva Upgrade Woes (as Usual)
In-Reply-To: <4B0DA74C.7030204@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <PC19520091125173030029638797486@msapiro>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>Well, as usual, my upgrade of Mandriva to v 2010.0 has broken Mailman. I
>once again humbly request help. Here is the traceback from 'mailmanctl
>start':
>
>/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py:32: DeprecationWarning: the sha module
>is deprecated; use the hashlib module instead
>  import sha


The above deprecation warning is from a pre 2.1.12 Mailman with Python
2.6. The above is not fatal, but there are other incompatibilities
that are. Python 2.6 is not supported by Mailman older than 2.1.12.


>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 110, in <module>
>    from Mailman.MailList import MailList
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 51, in <module>
>    from Mailman.Archiver import Archiver
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/__init__.py", line 17, in <modu=
>le>
>    from Archiver import *
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 32, in <modu=
>le>
>    from Mailman import Mailbox
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 21, in <module>
>    import mailbox
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/mailbox.py", line 19, in <module>
>    import email.message
>ImportError: No module named message


This is one of them. Since your Mailman is pre 2.1.12, you have a
Python email package in Mailman's pythonlib/email, but it is not
compatible with Python 2.6.

Removing Mailman's pythonlib/email directory may get you a bit further,
but you will still have issues.

Upgrade Mailman to 2.1.12.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Thu Nov 26 02:33:57 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:33:57 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting messages *to* non-members
In-Reply-To: <4B0D5E8A.8090005@locutory.org>
References: <4B0D5E8A.8090005@locutory.org>
Message-ID: <20091126013357.GH24624@amyl.org.uk>

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 08:42:50AM -0800, glen martin wrote:
> I've got some rude users who occasionally cc non-list members on their 
> messages to a restricted list that is actually intended to be private 
> (membership by invitation only).  

Suspend 'em from posting to the list for a breach of list protocol?

> Then, as you might expect, when the 
> non-member replies, that message is rejected or held for approval.  This 
> doesn't seem friendly.
> 
> The mailing list discussions around non-members seem to have been 
> dominated by discussion of messages from them, not to them.
> 
> Is there such an option, to reject messages that are {to,cc} 
> non-members? Or suggestions?

Bit tricky, that one, as presumably, you're not in charge of the
sending-mail machine.

what I would do is something like an ACL at SMTP time on the Mailman
machine, to the effect of determining:
    * is the sender a list-member
    * is there any address that's not the list address in the to/cc
      header

and if both conditions are true, then send an appropriate SMTP error
to the sender, discarding the mail.

Now, as for the first part, how you implement that will probably
depend on the size of the list, and which MTA you're using; you might
find periodically dumping the output of list_members for that/those
lists into a directory and searching through that, or dynamically
checking against the list (config/membership info), or using a wrapper
or some other method.

The second condition is trivial, with any knowledge of your MTA's
ACLs.

As for the not-friendly aspect, one approach might be to test inbound
mail, destined for the lists, for the existance of appropriate
headers (perhaps In-Reply-To:/Message-ID:), and verify those that
*you* use (or, indeed, add an X-Originated-From-FooBaa.com: header),
and if that condition is met, and the sender's not a member of the
list, to automagically add the Sender/From &c address to the allowed
senders array for the list. Spoofing headers won't really help, but we
all know that, anyhow, yes?

This last 'idea' ( ^^^ )doesn't necessarily help in user-education,
unless your list-members have the "X-Don't-Be-A-Dimwit:" header on
display ;)

[ ok, so how many of you went and checked ;) ]

Those said, I do perverse things with mail-servers...

(Exim is my MTA of preference, I think a few others prefer Postfix)

-- 
"what was asked of the Director in this case was not a statement of
prosecuting policy but a proleptic grant of immunity from prosecution.
That, I am quite satisfied, the Director had no power to give.?
    -- Bingham of Cornhill, R (Pretty) v DPP [2002] 1 AC 800

From andale at excaliburworld.com  Thu Nov 26 04:32:33 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:32:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Taking a stab at Mailman on Mac OS X
Message-ID: <p062408a0c733a6715b40@[64.142.30.27]>

Mailman v. 2.1.12 -> Mac OS 10.4.11

Tried to configure, and got the following results in config.log under 
Core Tests:

configure:1714: checking for --with-python
configure:1726: result: no
configure:1733: checking for python
configure:1751: found 
/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python
configure:1764: result: 
/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python
configure:1774: checking Python interpreter
configure:1792: result: 
/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python
configure:1796: checking Python version
configure:1829: result: 2.6.4
configure:1833: checking Python's email package
configure:1866: result: ok
configure:1872: checking that Python has a working distutils
configure:1921: result: yes
configure:1969: checking for a BSD-compatible install
configure:2025: result: /usr/bin/install -c
configure:2036: checking whether make sets $(MAKE)
configure:2061: result: no
configure:2068: checking for true
configure:2087: found /usr/bin/true
configure:2100: result: /usr/bin/true
configure:2110: checking for --without-gcc
configure:2128: result: no
configure:2189: checking for gcc
configure:2219: result: no
configure:2286: checking for cc
configure:2333: result: no
configure:2389: checking for cl.exe
configure:2419: result: no
configure:2448: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH


I didn't get very far.  I thought Mailman only required Python?

Is there anyone on this list who has successfully got Mailman running 
on Mac OS?


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 26 05:39:05 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:39:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Taking a stab at Mailman on Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <p062408a0c733a6715b40@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <PC1952009112520390503439afa8e9c@msapiro>

Bill Catambay wrote:
>
>I didn't get very far.  I thought Mailman only required Python?
>
>Is there anyone on this list who has successfully got Mailman running 
>on Mac OS?


There is a small amount of compiled C code.

You have to install the developer tools. This package is usually under
optional installs on the OS install disk.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From terri at zone12.com  Thu Nov 26 06:32:13 2009
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:32:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting messages *to* non-members
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009112517181504537f5c1dd4@msapiro>
References: <PC1952009112517181504537f5c1dd4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B0E12DD.50307@zone12.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> glen martin wrote:
>> The root cause, though, is my users.  I'd therefore like to train them 
>> :) by rejecting their posts that copy non-members.
> Actually, the best you can do is Recipient filters. If you set
> require_explicit_destination to Yes and max_num_recipients to 2, any
> post which is not explicitly addressed to and only to the list will be
> held.

This also has the side effect of "training" (or annoying) your users who 
don't have "reply to list" buttons in their mail clients.  Which may be 
a reasonable side effect, or a really annoying one, depending on your 
list members.  When we did something similar for related reasons, the 
cries of joy and the cries of anguish pretty much cancelled each other 
out, but your mileage may vary.

  Terri


From terri at zone12.com  Thu Nov 26 06:54:30 2009
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:54:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Taking a stab at Mailman on Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009112520390503439afa8e9c@msapiro>
References: <PC1952009112520390503439afa8e9c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B0E1816.8020800@zone12.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Bill Catambay wrote:
>> I didn't get very far.  I thought Mailman only required Python?
>> Is there anyone on this list who has successfully got Mailman running 
>> on Mac OS?
> There is a small amount of compiled C code.
> 
> You have to install the developer tools. This package is usually under
> optional installs on the OS install disk.

If it's not immediately obvious what you need to install, I recommend 
you just install xcode and that should take care of installing all the 
necessary bits.

I have in the past had Mailman running on Mac OS as a personal test 
build environment, but none of my live, production servers are OS X.

  Terri

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Thu Nov 26 07:12:50 2009
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:12:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Taking a stab at Mailman on Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <p062408a0c733a6715b40@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <C7337882.8651B%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 11/25/09 9:32 PM, Bill Catambay at andale at excaliburworld.com wrote:

 
> Is there anyone on this list who has successfully got Mailman running
> on Mac OS?

As Mark posted, you need to install the developer tools.

Also, search the archives as I have posted detailed instructions on
installing Mailman on Mac OS X. There is a version for Tiger (10.4) I posted
on 7/17/05.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From srb at umich.edu  Thu Nov 26 14:31:32 2009
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:31:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Taking a stab at Mailman on Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <C7337882.8651B%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
References: <C7337882.8651B%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <08656D0C620A88FA407DADF0@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>

--On November 26, 2009 12:12:50 AM -0600 Larry Stone 
<lstone19 at stonejongleux.com> wrote:

> Also, search the archives as I have posted detailed instructions on
> installing Mailman on Mac OS X. There is a version for Tiger (10.4) I
> posted on 7/17/05.

To which I reply:

Also see:

<http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg54111.html>
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg54113.html>

where I posted info about, and a link to my launchd scripts to replace the 
distributed cron actions (which, on Mac OS X systems, lead to mysterious 
error messages in syslog.

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Thu Nov 26 15:12:39 2009
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:12:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Taking a stab at Mailman on Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <C7337882.8651B%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <C733E8F7.8655C%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 11/26/09 12:12 AM, Larry Stone at lstone19 at stonejongleux.com wrote:

> Also, search the archives as I have posted detailed instructions on
> installing Mailman on Mac OS X. There is a version for Tiger (10.4) I posted
> on 7/17/05.

Now that I had time to do the search myself, the URL is
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg33402.html>.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Thu Nov 26 22:19:46 2009
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:19:46 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting messages *to* non-members
In-Reply-To: <4B0D5E8A.8090005@locutory.org>
References: <4B0D5E8A.8090005@locutory.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911262318010.4104@data.home>

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, glen martin wrote:

> I've got some rude users who occasionally cc non-list members on their 
> messages to a restricted list that is actually intended to be private 
> (membership by invitation only).  Then, as you might expect, when the 
> non-member replies, that message is rejected or held for approval.  This 
> doesn't seem friendly.
>
> The root cause, though, is my users.  I'd therefore like to train them :) by 
> rejecting their posts that copy non-members.

Just to make the point that rejecting such posts obviously wouldn't 
prevent them from reaching the off-list recipients that are being copied. 
But I assume you know this.

Geoff.


From glenm at locutory.org  Thu Nov 26 22:52:39 2009
From: glenm at locutory.org (glen martin)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:52:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting messages *to* non-members
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0911262318010.4104@data.home>
References: <4B0D5E8A.8090005@locutory.org>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.0911262318010.4104@data.home>
Message-ID: <4B0EF8A7.1020909@locutory.org>

Yah ... and responding to another note in the thread, it wouldn't stop
them from using bcc.  But I judge these errors to be lazy, not
malicious.  These users can easily send a note direct to other folks,
even forwarding the email they sent to the list if that is what they
really want to do.  But it is easier for them to just add their other
recipient to the one email, so that is what they do. Until this means
their email doesn't get to the list at all, at which point the 'easy'
solution is a different one. Or so I hope.

Again responding to another suggestion in this thread, the use of
recipient counts is an option I hadn't thought of.  The potential
problem here is I don't set a reply-to header, by and large their
clients don't have reply-list, so they use reply-all to respond to the
list. if we get a few messages deep into a thread, reply-all will go to
the list plus a couple of earlier senders, which will confuse the
recipient count.  Hmmm, maybe this would work if duplicate addressees
are removed earlier than the count filter.

The smtp solution was one I really hadn't considered, and while I'm sure
it could work, it seems very brute force. It seems to me that this is
something that should be configured for the list, not in postfix where
it gets involved in all mail handling.

I'm thinking about a custom handler ... it doesn't look like a hard
problem, just loop through the recipient list (recips), and look up
whether each of them is a list member. Reject on failure, fall through
and pass.  The hardest part will be figuring out now python works ...

Thanks to everyone for the responses and suggestions so far, much
appreciated.


Geoff Shang wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, glen martin wrote:
>
>> I've got some rude users who occasionally cc non-list members on 
>> their messages to a restricted list that is actually intended to be 
>> private (membership by invitation only).  Then, as you might expect, 
>> when the non-member replies, that message is rejected or held for 
>> approval.  This doesn't seem friendly.
>>
>> The root cause, though, is my users.  I'd therefore like to train 
>> them :) by rejecting their posts that copy non-members.
>
> Just to make the point that rejecting such posts obviously wouldn't 
> prevent them from reaching the off-list recipients that are being 
> copied. But I assume you know this.
>
> Geoff.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/glenm%40locutory.org



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Nov 26 23:17:31 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:17:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting messages *to* non-members
In-Reply-To: <4B0EF8A7.1020909@locutory.org>
Message-ID: <PC195200911261417310484d2cfe7c3@msapiro>

glen martin wrote:
>
>I'm thinking about a custom handler ... it doesn't look like a hard
>problem, just loop through the recipient list (recips), and look up
>whether each of them is a list member. Reject on failure, fall through
>and pass.  The hardest part will be figuring out now python works ...


If you want to do this as a "learn Python and Mailman" exercise, that's
great, but if you just want to get it done, I can suggest some code.
Let me know.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From shop at justbrits.com  Fri Nov 27 00:26:31 2009
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:26:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting messages *to* non-members
In-Reply-To: <4B0EF8A7.1020909@locutory.org>
References: <4B0D5E8A.8090005@locutory.org>	<alpine.DEB.1.10.0911262318010.4104@data.home>
	<4B0EF8A7.1020909@locutory.org>
Message-ID: <4B0F0EA7.4010304@justbrits.com>

Glen, as my Lists are behind a cPanel install of MM
normally I have nothing to add G<> !!

<<Thanks to everyone for the responses and suggestions so far,
much appreciated. >>

However in this case, maybe I can.  I have a dozen or
so small Lists [all under 100 folks] that are basically
private.  As I set-up the 4th or 5th I HAD learned of
just your sort of problem.  Therefore, I ADDED to
the "Welcome" mail a paragraph TELLING subscribers
what WILL happen when they pull stunts like you are
having occur.  Also, that Bcc'ing will have similiar
results. 

Even tho a couple of Lists are 'paying' customers I am
VERY strong in my verbage <G> !!!!!

The 'results' are that the problem has become a NON-
problem.

Another prob I ran into early on was folks just blindly
using the "Reply-All" function therefore if I had made
the orginal post I would get TWO replies.  I nipped THAT
in the bud VERY quickly.  LOL  If you notice, YOU are
only getting this message via the List <G> because I DO
know how to Edit the "Reply-All".

Best....

Ed
Please visit MY site at:
www.justbrits.com

From jason at weatherserver.net  Thu Nov 26 18:56:44 2009
From: jason at weatherserver.net (Jason L)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:56:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive Problem
Message-ID: <4B0EC15C.6080408@weatherserver.net>

I just moved my mailman install to another machine it has the same 
machine name and the lists are working but the archiving is not.  the 
archives/private folder is empty, and each email that is sent produces 
an error in the log.


Nov 26 12:07:33 2009 (2374) Archive file access failure:
    
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mto-scheduled.mbox/mto-scheduled.mbox 
[Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
'/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mto-scheduled.mbox/mto-scheduled.mbox'
Nov 26 12:07:33 2009 (2374) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 2] No such 
file or directory: 
'/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mto-scheduled.mbox/mto-scheduled.mbox'



How can I fix this?  I've tried turning off the archives and back on but 
nothing works.  I'm not worried about the old archive files I just want 
it to start archiving from this point forward.

Regards,






From rexgoode at verizon.net  Thu Nov 26 16:26:22 2009
From: rexgoode at verizon.net (Rex Goode)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 07:26:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple List Pending Requests
Message-ID: <4B0E9E1E.2080103@verizon.net>

Hello, everyone. I'm new here.

I operate several Mailman lists. I have lots of questions, but will 
start with the most pressing one.

It is cumbersome, with so many lists, to go in to each list's page of 
pending administrative requests to see what is waiting for me to act upon.

I just discovered withlist this morning. I think I can handle my shell 
for iterating through all of my lists.

Is there some way, possibly with withlist, for me to get a list of 
pending requests for a list. I don't need a lot of information about 
them. Maybe even just a number of pending requests. The results of the 
query on all lists would go to me in an email.

My users are getting annoyed when I get around to looking at their held 
messages and releasing them two weeks after they sent them. Maybe I'm 
just irresponsible, but it seems I should be able to know which lists 
have pending requests with just one click/cron/something.

Rex


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 27 02:36:35 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:36:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive Problem
In-Reply-To: <4B0EC15C.6080408@weatherserver.net>
Message-ID: <PC195200911261736350484fcb8cf47@msapiro>

Jason L wrote:

>I just moved my mailman install to another machine it has the same 
>machine name and the lists are working but the archiving is not.  the 
>archives/private folder is empty, and each email that is sent produces 
>an error in the log.
>
>
>Nov 26 12:07:33 2009 (2374) Archive file access failure:
>    
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mto-scheduled.mbox/mto-scheduled.mbox 
>[Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
>'/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mto-scheduled.mbox/mto-scheduled.mbox'
>Nov 26 12:07:33 2009 (2374) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 2] No such 
>file or directory: 
>'/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mto-scheduled.mbox/mto-scheduled.mbox'
>
>
>
>How can I fix this?  I've tried turning off the archives and back on but 
>nothing works.  I'm not worried about the old archive files I just want 
>it to start archiving from this point forward.


Evidently, you didn't move anything from archives/private/ on the old
server, and you moved the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck files. This is the
problem. Creating a new list also creates the directories
archives/private/LISTNAME/ and archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/ and the
file archives/private/LISTNAME/index.html with the empty archive
template.

The fact that you have no
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mto-scheduled.mbox/ directory is
responsible for the above error. create it with mode 2775 and
Mailman's group. That will get past the above error. Im not sure if
the missing archives/private/LISTNAME/ directory will cause a problem
or not, but to be on the safe side, you can create it too.

Or you can just move the archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox
files from the old server and run bin/arch LISTNAME to build the
pipermail archive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 27 03:01:23 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:01:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple List Pending Requests
In-Reply-To: <4B0E9E1E.2080103@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <PC195200911261801230031eb291eb6@msapiro>

Rex Goode wrote:
>
>I operate several Mailman lists. I have lots of questions, but will 
>start with the most pressing one.
>
>It is cumbersome, with so many lists, to go in to each list's page of 
>pending administrative requests to see what is waiting for me to act upon.


cron/checkdbs will mail to the ower of each list with outstanding
requests a summary of thos requests. In a normal, complete
installation this runs at 08:00 daily, but you can manually run it at
any time or adjust the crontab to run it more frequently.

Or you could make a script based on it that would print the output
instead of mailing it.


>I just discovered withlist this morning. I think I can handle my shell 
>for iterating through all of my lists.
>
>Is there some way, possibly with withlist, for me to get a list of 
>pending requests for a list. I don't need a lot of information about 
>them. Maybe even just a number of pending requests. The results of the 
>query on all lists would go to me in an email.


def count_requests(mlist):
    if mlist.NumRequestsPending():
        print 'List: %s, Requests = %i' % (mlist.real_name,
                                           mlist.NumRequestsPending())

save that as bin/count_requests.py. Then run, e.g.

#!/bin/sh
cd /path/to/mailman
bin/withlist -a -r count_requests | mail -s "subj" you at example.com

>My users are getting annoyed when I get around to looking at their held 
>messages and releasing them two weeks after they sent them. Maybe I'm 
>just irresponsible, but it seems I should be able to know which lists 
>have pending requests with just one click/cron/something.


It sounds like you haven't installed Mailman's crontab.

Also note, if you set General Options -> admin_immed_notify to Yes the
list owner(s)/moderator(s) will receive email notice of each request
as it is made.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cstalberg at web-analysts.net  Fri Nov 27 14:29:39 2009
From: cstalberg at web-analysts.net (Christian Stalberg)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 08:29:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages not passed,
	content filtering settings ignored
In-Reply-To: <4B0E9E1E.2080103@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1259328579.24653@web-analysts.net>

   In looking at the output I may see the problem. I have been running
   Mailman and upgraded versions and moved Mailman from one server to
   another for years. Look at this output from my list wherein I see
   values like 'False' where the legals values are supposed to be either
   yes or no:

   # When you scrub attachments, they are stored in archive area and links
   # are made in the message so that the member can access via web
   browser.
   # If you want the attachments totally disappear, you can use content
   # filter options.
   #
   # legal values are:
   #    0 = "No"
   #    1 = "Yes"
   scrub_nondigest = False

   could this be the problem where an upgrade was not done properly where
   I have an old, out of date 'config' file whose values are unrecognized
   or ?


   On 11/25/2009 10:26 Mark Sapiro <mark@[1]msapiro.net> wrote ..

If filter_content is no, Mailman should not be doing any content
filtering or HTML to plain text conversion.
I can make a guess. Perhaps the message is multipart/alternative with
text/plain and text/html alternative parts and you are viewing the
received message  with an MUA (mail client) set to show you the plain
text, or perhaps you are seeing a 'scrubbed' message in a digest or
the archive or even the message from the list if Non-digest options ->
scrub_nondigest is set to Yes.
If you really want to look 'under the hood' look at the output from
 bin/config_list -o - LISTNAME
or
 bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck | grep filter_content

From rexgoode at verizon.net  Fri Nov 27 16:03:00 2009
From: rexgoode at verizon.net (Rex Goode)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 07:03:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Checking for Heartbeat
Message-ID: <4B0FEA24.9090903@verizon.net>

First, thanks to Mark Sapiro for the great reply on Multiple List 
Pending Requests.

I host with jumpline.com, which generally does a good job with me. The 
Mailman installation is pretty good, but for some reason I can't track 
down, Mailman keeps going belly-up. Jumpline customer support doesn't 
know why. I have to stop it to turn off whatever qrunners are running 
and restart it. I don't mind doing that now and then. It doesn't happen 
that often.

Here's the problem. My users don't think to tell me when they haven't 
had any mail from the list for awhile. I just go along thinking all is 
well until someone tells me, "Hey, Rex. We haven't had any email from 
the list for a week." I restart and old email mostly catches up.

I have an administrative page for all of my web sites and the various 
things they do. I am on that page several times each day. I would like 
to generate some message when Mailman isn't working, something I would 
see there. A lot of the command line scripts seem to work even if 
Mailman is not running. What can I use to check to see if it is alive?

Rex

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 27 16:23:45 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 07:23:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages not passed,
	content filtering settings ignored
In-Reply-To: <1259328579.24653@web-analysts.net>
Message-ID: <PC195200911270723450906961787b7@msapiro>

Christian Stalberg wrote:
>
>   In looking at the output I may see the problem. I have been running
>   Mailman and upgraded versions and moved Mailman from one server to
>   another for years. Look at this output from my list wherein I see
>   values like 'False' where the legals values are supposed to be either
>   yes or no:
>
>   # When you scrub attachments, they are stored in archive area and links
>   # are made in the message so that the member can access via web
>   browser.
>   # If you want the attachments totally disappear, you can use content
>   # filter options.
>   #
>   # legal values are:
>   #    0 = "No"
>   #    1 = "Yes"
>   scrub_nondigest = False
>
>   could this be the problem where an upgrade was not done properly where
>   I have an old, out of date 'config' file whose values are unrecognized
>   or ?


This is not a problem. config_list says legal values are 0 and 1 for
False/True settings to accommodate older Pythons that didn't define
False and True, but False and True for these is actually fine.

Besides, if your issue were due to scrub_nondigest being True, you
could tell as the HTML wouldn't just disappear, it would be replaced
by a stanza saying "an HTML attachment has been scrubbed" with a link
to wher the HTML was stored.

Do the messages from the list contain a

X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.x

header? If not, Mailman's content filtering hasn't changed them.

What is the exact MIME structure of an HTML message to the list and of
the message received from the list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 27 16:56:29 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 07:56:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Checking for Heartbeat
In-Reply-To: <4B0FEA24.9090903@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <PC195200911270756290531ea59e830@msapiro>

Rex Goode wrote:
>
>I host with jumpline.com, which generally does a good job with me. The 
>Mailman installation is pretty good, but for some reason I can't track 
>down, Mailman keeps going belly-up. Jumpline customer support doesn't 
>know why. I have to stop it to turn off whatever qrunners are running 
>and restart it. I don't mind doing that now and then. It doesn't happen 
>that often.


I'm guessing you have a VPS or similar hosting arrangement where you
actually have access to the Maulman installation.

When Mailman 'dies' are one or more qrunners missing? If so, look in
Mailman's error and qrunner logs to try to find out why. If not, maybe
there is a lock issue of some sort. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.


>Here's the problem. My users don't think to tell me when they haven't 
>had any mail from the list for awhile. I just go along thinking all is 
>well until someone tells me, "Hey, Rex. We haven't had any email from 
>the list for a week." I restart and old email mostly catches up.
>
>I have an administrative page for all of my web sites and the various 
>things they do. I am on that page several times each day. I would like 
>to generate some message when Mailman isn't working, something I would 
>see there. A lot of the command line scripts seem to work even if 
>Mailman is not running. What can I use to check to see if it is alive?


I suggest you look at the mmdsr script. I don't know what you have
available in your installation, but if you have a Mailman contrib/
directory, you'll find it there. If not, go to
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files/head%3A/contrib/>
where you can download mmdsr and README.mmdsr.

mmdsr is designed to be run by cron at 23:59 daily and mail you a
report summarizing Mailman's logs, queues, etc. This is very helpful
in spotting problems.

If mailmanctl and some qrunners are running when mailman is not
working, and you want to check right now, you can look at

find /path/to/qfiles -print -name \*.pck

to see if any queues are backed up, and you can do

ps -u mailman --no-headers | wc -l

which should return '9' in a standard installation (mailmanctl and 8
qrunners).

You could incorporate one of these or something similar in your
administrative page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Fri Nov 27 19:25:18 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:25:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting messages *to* non-members
In-Reply-To: <4B0F0EA7.4010304@justbrits.com>
References: <4B0D5E8A.8090005@locutory.org>	<alpine.DEB.1.10.0911262318010.4104@data.home>
	<4B0EF8A7.1020909@locutory.org> <4B0F0EA7.4010304@justbrits.com>
Message-ID: <CB27E29C-5A6F-4144-949C-5744269C4959@kreme.com>

On 26-Nov-2009, at 16:26, Shop at Just Brits wrote:
> Another prob I ran into early on was folks just blindly
> using the "Reply-All" function therefore if I had made
> the orginal post I would get TWO replies.  I nipped THAT
> in the bud VERY quickly.


I'd much rather get two replies than what some lists do which is not send me a copy if they see I 'already got one' in the Cc or To headers. I REALLY hate that.

This list, for example.

-- 
Over 3,500 gay marriages and, what, no hellfire? I was promise
	hellfire. And riots. What gives? -- Mark Morford


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 27 19:37:17 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:37:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting messages *to* non-members
In-Reply-To: <CB27E29C-5A6F-4144-949C-5744269C4959@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520091127103717023463be4bfb@msapiro>

LuKreme wrote:
>
>I'd much rather get two replies than what some lists do which is not send me a copy if they see I 'already got one' in the Cc or To headers. I REALLY hate that.
>
>This list, for example.


It's a user option (at least on Mailman lists) -

Avoid duplicate copies of messages?

When you are listed explicitly in the To: or Cc: headers of a list
message, you can opt to not receive another copy from the mailing
list. Select Yes to avoid receiving copies from the mailing list;
select No to receive copies. 

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 27 19:46:23 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:46:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting messages *to* non-members
In-Reply-To: <4B0F0EA7.4010304@justbrits.com>
References: <4B0F0EA7.4010304@justbrits.com>
Message-ID: <4B101E7F.5010105@msapiro.net>

Ed wrote:
> Another prob I ran into early on was folks just blindly
> using the "Reply-All" function therefore if I had made
> the orginal post I would get TWO replies. 


In some cases at least, this is a good thing. E.g.,

- The poster is not a list member and would not otherwise see the reply.

- The poster is a digest member and wouldn't otherwise see the reply for
some time.

The typical list member is not able to know whether a poster is a
regular or digest member or even a list member at all.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Fri Nov 27 19:55:08 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:55:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Checking for Heartbeat
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911270756290531ea59e830@msapiro>
References: <PC195200911270756290531ea59e830@msapiro>
Message-ID: <639B4E1B-36B2-41A1-8A0A-ED845D6EF2BA@kreme.com>

On 27-Nov-2009, at 08:56, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> <http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files/head%3A/contrib/>
> where you can download mmdsr and README.mmdsr

Hmm.. the readme and internal docs where not that useful.

# Arguments for your mktemp command to specify directory and/or create file.
# For example, HPUX mktemp requires "-c"; FreeBSD doesn't accept "-p <dir>".
 ###############################################################################
TMPDIR="-p /tmp"

OK, since freeBSD doesn't like the -p option, what should this be? setting it to just "/tmp" generates an error. Setting it to -d /tmp/mmdsr also generates the same basic errors. Yes, the script is running as root.

# mmdsr
mktemp: mkstemp failed on /tmp: File exists
mktemp: mkstemp failed on /tmp: File exists
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory

The script then sits there for far long than a minute seemingly doing nothing. (I know it has a sleep 60 in it because it's intended to run at 23:59, but that does seem an odd way to go to me). Still, wanting to see the output it generated I ran it, but it seems to just stall.


-- 
"Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be 
	dead soldiers" ~Carlin


From kremels at kreme.com  Fri Nov 27 19:57:45 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:57:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting messages *to* non-members
In-Reply-To: <PC19520091127103717023463be4bfb@msapiro>
References: <PC19520091127103717023463be4bfb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <D683C200-74A0-4BC7-9607-D357534E7860@kreme.com>

On 27-Nov-2009, at 11:37, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> LuKreme wrote:
>> 
>> I'd much rather get two replies than what some lists do which is not send me a copy if they see I 'already got one' in the Cc or To headers. I REALLY hate that.
>> 
>> This list, for example.
> 
> 
> It's a user option (at least on Mailman lists) -
> 
> Avoid duplicate copies of messages?

Yep, but I've set it at least twice for this list and I still find it getting set back. But that said, some Mailman lists have a setting that lets you set the Reply-To: on your posts so that when people reply, it goes ONLY to the list, as $DEITY intended.


-- 
Love seekest only self to please, To bind another to its delight
	Joys in	another's loss of ease And builds a hell in Heaven's
	despite!


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 27 20:33:29 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:33:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Checking for Heartbeat
In-Reply-To: <639B4E1B-36B2-41A1-8A0A-ED845D6EF2BA@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911271133290421548be102@msapiro>

LuKreme wrote:

>On 27-Nov-2009, at 08:56, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> <http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files/head%3A/contrib/>
>> where you can download mmdsr and README.mmdsr
>
>Hmm.. the readme and internal docs where not that useful.
>
># Arguments for your mktemp command to specify directory and/or create file.
># For example, HPUX mktemp requires "-c"; FreeBSD doesn't accept "-p <dir>".
> ###############################################################################
>TMPDIR="-p /tmp"
>
>OK, since freeBSD doesn't like the -p option, what should this be? setting it to just "/tmp" generates an error. Setting it to -d /tmp/mmdsr also generates the same basic errors. Yes, the script is running as root.


The equivalent option in FreeBSD is "-t /tmp", at least according to
<http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=1&topic=mktemp>.


>(I know it has a sleep 60 in it because it's intended to run at 23:59, but that does seem an odd way to go to me).


It runs at 23:59 and sleeps for a minute after getting the current date
to use in filtering the logs. It sleeps to get the last minute in the
logs, and it gets the date before midnite so it doesn't have to figure
out the correct date for 'yesterday'. Granted, it could just run at
midnight and use the "-d yesterday" option for the date command, but
a) I didn't write that part; b) I don't know if "-d yesterday" or
equivalent is universally available in implementations of date, and c)
the impact of a change at this point on existing users makes such a
change problematic.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 27 20:49:39 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:49:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting messages *to* non-members
In-Reply-To: <D683C200-74A0-4BC7-9607-D357534E7860@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <PC195200911271149390437d1fde79c@msapiro>

LuKreme wrote:
>
>Yep, but I've set it at least twice for this list and I still find it getting set back.


I don't know why that would happen.


>But that said, some Mailman lists have a setting that lets you set the Reply-To: on your posts so that when people reply, it goes ONLY to the list, as $DEITY intended.


Our recommendations are to not strip the poster's Reply-To: if any and
to not add any other Reply-To: addresses. This list is set that way so
you can add your own Reply-To: and it will be passed through.

List owners can set these as they see fit, but I don't see why anyone
would choose to strip the poster's Reply-To: if they weren't adding
one of their own.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 27 21:15:25 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:15:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Checking for Heartbeat
In-Reply-To: <639B4E1B-36B2-41A1-8A0A-ED845D6EF2BA@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520091127121525007863be4b67@msapiro>

LuKreme wrote:
>
>Hmm.. the readme and internal docs where not that useful.
>
># Arguments for your mktemp command to specify directory and/or create file.
># For example, HPUX mktemp requires "-c"; FreeBSD doesn't accept "-p <dir>".
> ###############################################################################
>TMPDIR="-p /tmp"


I have changed the comment to

# Arguments for your mktemp command to specify directory and/or create
file.
# For example, HPUX mktemp requires "-c -d <dir>"; FreeBSD requires "-t
<dir>".

Hopefully, that will be more clear. I would prefer not to have this
setting at all, but there needs to be something because without the
'-c' option HPUX won't create the file, and none of the others accept
'-c'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cstalberg at web-analysts.net  Sat Nov 28 15:22:38 2009
From: cstalberg at web-analysts.net (Christian Stalberg)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:22:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages not passed,
	content filtering settings ignored
In-Reply-To: <PC195200911270723450906961787b7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1259418158.22420@web-analysts.net>

   I am using digests. here is the header of the digest I am receiving
   with the header of one of its messages:

   From line     From halliburtonwatch-bounces at halliburtonwatch.net Thu
   Nov 26 14:10:47 2009
   Return-Path:     <halliburtonwatch-bounces at halliburtonwatch.net>
   X-Spam-Checker-Version:     SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10)
   onzarathustra.mitigation.com
   X-Spam-Level:
   X-Spam-Status:     No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED
   autolearn=failedversion=3.2.5
   Received:     from zarathustra.mitigation.com (wa1 [127.0.0.1])by
   zarathustra.mitigation.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id
   nAQJAh11009279;Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:10:46 -0500
   From:     halliburtonwatch-request at halliburtonwatch.net
   Subject:     halliburtonwatch Digest, Vol 30, Issue 14
   To:     halliburtonwatch at halliburtonwatch.net
   Reply-To:     halliburtonwatch at halliburtonwatch.net
   Date:     Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:10:35 -0500
   Message-ID:
   <mailman.1.1259262635.9269.halliburtonwatch at halliburtonwatch.net>
   MIME-Version:     1.0
   Content-Type:     text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
   Content-Transfer-Encoding:     7bit
   X-BeenThere:     halliburtonwatch at halliburtonwatch.net
   X-Mailman-Version:     2.1.12
   Precedence:     list
   List-Id:     halliburton Watch <halliburtonwatch.halliburtonwatch.net>
   List-Unsubscribe:
   <http://halliburtonwatch.net/mailman/options/halliburtonwatch>,
   <mailto:halliburtonwatch-request at halliburtonwatch.net?subject=unsubscri
   be>
   List-Archive:
   <http://halliburtonwatch.net/mailman/private/halliburtonwatch/>
   List-Post:     <mailto:halliburtonwatch at halliburtonwatch.net>
   List-Help:
   <mailto:halliburtonwatch-request at halliburtonwatch.net?subject=help>
   List-Subscribe:
   <http://halliburtonwatch.net/mailman/listinfo/halliburtonwatch>,
   <mailto:halliburtonwatch-request at halliburtonwatch.net?subject=subscribe
   >
   Sender:     halliburtonwatch-bounces at halliburtonwatch.net
   Errors-To:     halliburtonwatch-bounces at halliburtonwatch.net
   Message contents
   Send halliburtonwatch mailing list submissions to
       halliburtonwatch at halliburtonwatch.net
   To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
       http://halliburtonwatch.net/mailman/listinfo/halliburtonwatch
   or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
       halliburtonwatch-request at halliburtonwatch.net
   You can reach the person managing the list at
       halliburtonwatch-owner at halliburtonwatch.net
   When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
   than "Re: Contents of halliburtonwatch digest..."
   Today's Topics:
      3. Lawyers: government misconduct in halliburton case (Admin)
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
   Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:13:40 -0500 (EST)
   From: Admin <admin at halliburtonwatch.net>
   To: halliburtonwatch at halliburtonwatch.net
   Subject: [halliburtonwatch] Lawyers: government misconduct in
       halliburton case
   Message-ID: <1259252020.7133 at halliburtonwatch.net>
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
   An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
   URL:
   <http://halliburtonwatch.net/mailman/private/halliburtonwatch/attachmen
   ts/20091126/a60933e9/attachment-0001.htm>
   -------------- next part --------------
      Lawyers: government misconduct in halliburton case
      By PETE YOST (AP) 1 hour ago

   http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gEkqkbr5Pndf7Tzj86eSq
      aSbPHSAD9C79K601
      WASHINGTON Defense lawyers are...
   ++++++
   Now here's the header of that same message sent to the list for
   distribution:

   From line     From admin at halliburtonwatch.net Thu Nov 26 11:13:42 2009
   From:     Admin <admin at halliburtonwatch.net>
   Subject:     Lawyers: government misconduct in halliburton case
   To:     halliburtonwatch at halliburtonwatch.net
   Cc:
   Bcc:
   Message-Id:     <1259252020.7133 at halliburtonwatch.net>
   X-Originating-IP:     24.7.1.30
   X-Mailer:     Usermin 1.420
   Date:     Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:13:40 -0500 (EST)
   MIME-Version:     1.0
   Content-Type:     multipart/mixed; boundary="bound1259252022"
   Message contents    View as text
   Lawyers: government misconduct in halliburton case
   By PETE YOST (AP) 1 hour ago

   On 11/27/2009 10:23 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote ..
   > Christian Stalberg wrote:
   > >
   > >   In looking at the output I may see the problem. I have been
   running
   > >   Mailman and upgraded versions and moved Mailman from one server
   to
   > >   another for years. Look at this output from my list wherein I see
   > >   values like 'False' where the legals values are supposed to be
   either
   > >   yes or no:
   > >
   > >   # When you scrub attachments, they are stored in archive area and
   links
   > >   # are made in the message so that the member can access via web
   > >   browser.
   > >   # If you want the attachments totally disappear, you can use
   content
   > >   # filter options.
   > >   #
   > >   # legal values are:
   > >   #    0 = "No"
   > >   #    1 = "Yes"
   > >   scrub_nondigest = False
   > >
   > >   could this be the problem where an upgrade was not done properly
   where
   > >   I have an old, out of date 'config' file whose values are
   unrecognized
   > >   or ?
   >
   >
   > This is not a problem. config_list says legal values are 0 and 1 for
   > False/True settings to accommodate older Pythons that didn't define
   > False and True, but False and True for these is actually fine.
   >
   > Besides, if your issue were due to scrub_nondigest being True, you
   > could tell as the HTML wouldn't just disappear, it would be replaced
   > by a stanza saying "an HTML attachment has been scrubbed" with a link
   > to wher the HTML was stored.
   >
   > Do the messages from the list contain a
   >
   > X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.x
   >
   > header? If not, Mailman's content filtering hasn't changed them.
   >
   > What is the exact MIME structure of an HTML message to the list and
   of
   > the message received from the list?
   >
   > --
   > Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
   > San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B.
   Dylan

From administrateur at campusfm.fr  Sat Nov 28 12:19:22 2009
From: administrateur at campusfm.fr (Administrateur)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:19:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email commands for list moderator
Message-ID: <2AB422BB-C896-406C-A744-5305A0F009DD@campusfm.fr>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

I'm using Mailman and would like to share some administrative actions  
to the moderator.

Actually I can't find in any documentation the way for the list  
moderator to set the 'moderate' flag to a list member.

Somebody knows somethong about that possibility ?

Sincerely

- ---------------------------------------
System Administrator
Gregory DAVID
administrateur at campusfm.fr
http://www.campusfm.fr

GPG : 0x4437F8A1





-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAksRBzoACgkQYPicgEQ3+KGOmACfU5r8puDnx7s7dNgN+0F3FDoc
rRoAn2JBHfPzCc37+T76u9fg6pTv9ReP
=Y4HD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov 28 16:52:10 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 07:52:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages not passed,
	content filtering settings ignored
In-Reply-To: <1259418158.22420@web-analysts.net>
Message-ID: <PC195200911280752100247f709f441@msapiro>

Christian Stalberg wrote:
>
>   I am using digests. here is the header of the digest I am receiving
>   with the header of one of its messages:


In my original reply I wrote "perhaps you are seeing a 'scrubbed'
message in a digest". That is the case here. HTML cannot be included
in the plain text digest, so it is 'scrubbed' (i.e. stored aside and
replaced by a link).


[...]
>   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Message: 3
>   Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:13:40 -0500 (EST)
>   From: Admin <admin at halliburtonwatch.net>
>   To: halliburtonwatch at halliburtonwatch.net
>   Subject: [halliburtonwatch] Lawyers: government misconduct in
>       halliburton case
>   Message-ID: <1259252020.7133 at halliburtonwatch.net>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>   An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>   URL:
>   <http://halliburtonwatch.net/mailman/private/halliburtonwatch/attachments/20091126/a60933e9/attachment-0001.htm>


The HTML part was removed, stored aside and replaced by the above note
and link. The link appears to be broken (it redirects to a page that
says there is no website at that domain), but that is a separate issue.


[...]
>   Now here's the header of that same message sent to the list for
>   distribution:


If you want to see the same thing in the digest as in the individual
message, you must select MIME as your digest format.

The list admin can uncheck 'plain' on the Membership Management... ->
Membership List page or the user can select MIME for "Get MIME or
Plain Text Digests?" on the user's options page.

Also, the admin can set Digest options -> mime_is_default_digest to
MIME to make MIME the default digest format for new list members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov 28 17:01:06 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:01:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email commands for list moderator
In-Reply-To: <2AB422BB-C896-406C-A744-5305A0F009DD@campusfm.fr>
Message-ID: <PC195200911280801060294af3bee6c@msapiro>

Administrateur wrote:
>
>I'm using Mailman and would like to share some administrative actions  
>to the moderator.
>
>Actually I can't find in any documentation the way for the list  
>moderator to set the 'moderate' flag to a list member.


The moderate flag for a list member can only be SET from the list's
admin interface which requires login with the list admin or site
password.

The list moderator password if set and different from the admin
password allows only access to the admindb interface. In the admindb
interface, there is a checkbox to clear the poster's moderate flag
when a held post is from a moderated member, but there is no way to
set the flag.

The list can also be set to moderate new members by default (Privacy
options... -> Sender filters -> default_member_moderation), but there
is no way for someone with only the list moderator password to set a
members moderate flag.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Sat Nov 28 18:03:38 2009
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:03:38 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Downgrade from Mailman 2.1.12 to 2.1.11
Message-ID: <D76869AD7DF0F742866D1573A51430612A9AEA4D02@ELROND.hodgsonfamily.org>

Hi,

I am currently on a Ubuntu 9.04 system and want to migrate to a new host which is running Debian Lenny.  Lenny has the Mailman 2.1.11 Debian package and the 9.04 host has 2.1.12.  Will there be any issue of downgrading the mailing list data files?

Thanks.
Andrew.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov 29 04:46:13 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 19:46:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Downgrade from Mailman 2.1.12 to 2.1.11
In-Reply-To: <D76869AD7DF0F742866D1573A51430612A9AEA4D02@ELROND.hodgsonfamily.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952009112819461307503fa9fc3b@msapiro>

Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>
>I am currently on a Ubuntu 9.04 system and want to migrate to a new host which is running Debian Lenny.  Lenny has the Mailman 2.1.11 Debian package and the 9.04 host has 2.1.12.  Will there be any issue of downgrading the mailing list data files?


In general, there could be, but this particular downgrade is safe. In
fact, I think any downgrade from 2.1.x to 2.1.y is safe as long as
12 >= x > y >= 5. There are other downgrades that will work too, but
without actually looking at the datafile changes, I'm not sure which
ones will or won't. Downgrade from 2.1.x to 2.0.y is definitely not
safe.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Sun Nov 29 13:23:21 2009
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 12:23:21 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Downgrade from Mailman 2.1.12 to 2.1.11
In-Reply-To: <PC1952009112819461307503fa9fc3b@msapiro>
References: <D76869AD7DF0F742866D1573A51430612A9AEA4D02@ELROND.hodgsonfamily.org>
	<PC1952009112819461307503fa9fc3b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <D76869AD7DF0F742866D1573A51430612A9AEA4D05@ELROND.hodgsonfamily.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>
>I am currently on a Ubuntu 9.04 system and want to migrate to a new host which is running Debian Lenny.  Lenny has the Mailman 2.1.11 Debian package and the 9.04 host has 2.1.12.  Will there be any issue of downgrading the mailing list data files?

>In general, there could be, but this particular downgrade is safe. In
>fact, I think any downgrade from 2.1.x to 2.1.y is safe as long as
>12 >= x > y >= 5. There are other downgrades that will work too, but
>without actually looking at the datafile changes, I'm not sure which
>ones will or won't. Downgrade from 2.1.x to 2.0.y is definitely not
>safe.

Thanks; I staged this on a VM running on my own system before putting it live; it seems to be working ok now.

Andrew. 



From barry at python.org  Sun Nov 29 21:01:49 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 15:01:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3.0 alpha 4
Message-ID: <1086C8AD-5F5E-49B4-889F-3E1BF68891DD@python.org>

I'm happy to announce the release of Mailman 3.0 alpha 4.

Things are getting quite real now.  It's pretty easy to hook Mailman  
up to Postfix for both incoming and outgoing mail[1] and you can  
create mailing lists and populate them with addresses.  Currently, you  
must do this through the command line though.

Please download the latest tarball or grab the bzr branch, and put it  
through some paces.  Now is a good time to comment on the design and  
feature set for Mailman 3 as we are still in alpha. I'm still planning  
on releasing a first beta by the end of the year -- your testing,  
feedback, input, and contributions can help with that!

You can download the tarball either from the Cheeseshop, or Launchpad:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailman/3.0.0a4
https://launchpad.net/mailman

Please note: Mailman 3.0a4 is not production ready yet.

Enjoy,
-Barry

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From inksanity at inksanitytattoo.com  Sun Nov 29 18:42:19 2009
From: inksanity at inksanitytattoo.com (inksanity at inksanitytattoo.com)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 12:42:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about mailman issues i am experiencing
Message-ID: <F4101E63203D4B8693688BE59DA635EC@StealthTrader>

Dear Mailman,

I use your program ver 2.1.11 cp3

The abridged version of my issue is this:

I have a subscriber list of over 2,000 people.  When I send emails thru the mailman program, I'm never certain how many of those emails are actually successfully received by my list members, and how many simply never get there (due to spam filters & server restrictions).

I believe my issue is due to sending out so many emails at one time (the full 2000).  Is there ANY WAY to send emails out to a specific group of members on my list?  For example, mailman alphabetizes list members by name.  Is it not possible for me to send email to members A-C  then wait a few hours and send D-F  then wait a few hrs more and send to members G-I etc?

Thank you so much for your assistance.

Steve

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov 29 22:30:27 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:30:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about mailman issues i am experiencing
In-Reply-To: <F4101E63203D4B8693688BE59DA635EC@StealthTrader>
Message-ID: <PC19520091129133027084336316926@msapiro>

inksanity at inksanitytattoo.com wrote:
>
>I use your program ver 2.1.11 cp3


Actually, that's not ours, it's cPanel's. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9> for a bit on the difference.


>The abridged version of my issue is this:
>
>I have a subscriber list of over 2,000 people.  When I send emails thru the mailman program, I'm never certain how many of those emails are actually successfully received by my list members, and how many simply never get there (due to spam filters & server restrictions).


The FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9> has some suggestions about
this.


>I believe my issue is due to sending out so many emails at one time (the full 2000).  Is there ANY WAY to send emails out to a specific group of members on my list?  For example, mailman alphabetizes list members by name.  Is it not possible for me to send email to members A-C  then wait a few hours and send D-F  then wait a few hrs more and send to members G-I etc?


You could break your list into a number of separate sub-lists and post
to those one at a time. Mailman doesn't have a way to limit it's
sending rate. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/j4A9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From scheidell at secnap.net  Sun Nov 29 22:28:27 2009
From: scheidell at secnap.net (Michael Scheidell)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:28:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about mailman issues i am experiencing
Message-ID: <1af901ca713a$e52d6388$0d01460a@secnap.com>

One option would be to use your mta to rate limit it per destination domain.  Then your mta can queue them up a few at a time.  Other things you can do include make sure dns entries for your server are inplace  and match.  Spf records won't hurt.  Also you might get the mta to do skim signing.  Check reputation databases for your urls and up address.

-----Original Message-----
From: inksanity at inksanitytattoo.com <inksanity at inksanitytattoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:15 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org <mailman-users at python.org>
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about mailman issues i am experiencing

Dear Mailman,

I use your program ver 2.1.11 cp3

The abridged version of my issue is this:

I have a subscriber list of over 2,000 people.  When I send emails thru the mailman program, I'm never certain how many of those emails are actually successfully received by my list members, and how many simply never get there (due to spam filters & server restrictions).

I believe my issue is due to sending out so many emails at one time (the full 2000).  Is there ANY WAY to send emails out to a specific group of members on my list?  For example, mailman alphabetizes list members by name.  Is it not possible for me to send email to members A-C  then wait a few hours and send D-F  then wait a few hrs more and send to members G-I etc?

Thank you so much for your assistance.

Steve
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