From whit+mailman at transpect.com  Wed Apr  1 00:44:48 2009
From: whit+mailman at transpect.com (Whit Blauvelt)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:44:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debugging question
Message-ID: <20090331224448.GA31452@transpect.com>

Okay, after an old Gentoo server died that was running mailman happily for
years with sendmail, I rebuilt things on Ubuntu using a stock postfix with a
custom-compiled mailman. The web interface all looks fine - the lists and
their users are there - and the aliases are in place. But mail coming in
disappears without an error message to tell me why. For instance:

Mar 31 10:37:13 green postfix/local[28766]: 4E92B17FBEA: to=<xyz-announce at mm.xyz.org>, relay=local, delay=0.45,
delays=0.02/0.02/0/0.4, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /web/mailman/mail/mailman post xyz-announce)

Nothing happens further. No error message shows in any system log.

Now, obviously I've set up something wrong. But how do I get some useful
debugging messages so I can get properly clued here?

Thanks,
Whit 

From jumper99 at gmx.de  Wed Apr  1 10:14:17 2009
From: jumper99 at gmx.de (Helmut Schneider)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:14:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To-Do-list admin
References: <PC1870200903310804490406d9378e87@msapiro>
Message-ID: <B8374EFD9CD44024B82B532BB791F8F5@vpe.de>

Hi Mark,

From: "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net>
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Helmut Schneider wrote:
>>>
>>> I set up a new mailman instance (2.1.11). I remeber that when I
>>> created new  lists a mail was sent to the admin describing what he
>>> needs to add to  /etc/aliases to make the new list work. Currently I
>>> do not recieve that  email at the new installation. Did I forget to
>>> check a box?
>>
>> It depends on how you create the list. If you create a list from the
>> web or via bin/newlist without the "-q" option, the admin should be
>> notified.
>>
>> Is Mailman running?
>>
>> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.
>
> In the above reply, I overlooked the fact that you were talking about
> the aliases email to the owner of the site list ('mailman-owner').
> This is only sent if you haven't changed the default MTA = 'Manual'
> setting. If you have set MTA in mm_cfg.py to other than 'Manual', the
> aliases mail will not be sent.

I did not touch the MTA setting, the only things I added are

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
DEFAULT_URL_HOST
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPHOST
SMTPPORT

Communication itself seems fine, i recieved a subscription reminder this 
morning from mailman-owner. 


From dnovotny at redhat.com  Wed Apr  1 11:33:48 2009
From: dnovotny at redhat.com (Daniel Novotny)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:33:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm_cfg.py in /usr : SELinux problem
Message-ID: <1880765837.948451238578428411.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com>

hello,

we are now having a problem, how to adapt mailman configuration (mm_cfg.py)
to SELinux policy:

it resides in /usr and the SELinux maintainer argues /usr should be read-only,
which is not satisfied, when you change the configuration (and the .pyc file
has to be generated in /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ , too)

I have thought about the way to fix this problem: simply moving the
file to /etc or /var is not enough, because it's part of the package "Mailman"
and lots of files say "from Mailman import mm_cfg"

any thoughts of this?
 thanks and regards,

       Daniel Novotny, Red Hat inc.

From b19141 at anl.gov  Wed Apr  1 15:53:15 2009
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed,  1 Apr 2009 08:53:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to set default list settings
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Salvatore D'Agostino <sdagostino@tropotel.net>'
	dated: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:59:19 -0400
Message-ID: <20090401135315.657D9175A0@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

Salvatore D'Agostino <sdagostino at tropotel.net> wrote:

>Does anyone know where I can set the default settings for all newly 
>created lists so that I won't have to always log in to the website each 
>time and set them individually?
>
>Thanks in advance =)

I have 25 list template files that I use when I create a list via
the command-line interface.  I created these by saving the default
configuration and modifying it for each of the 25 configuration
variations.  My list-creation script has at its core:

     /usr/sbin/newlist $emaildomain $listname
     config_list -i $listname.config $listname

I take one of my 25 config templates, copy it into a new list
template, make the necessary modifications

     realname
     info
     decription
     etc.

and use that new config file as $listname.config in my script.
This assumes that one has access to the command-line interface.
I have never created a new list via the web page because I would then
have to remember what list parameters need to be changed.  I have
already done this work in creating my 25 list config templates.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  1 16:26:30 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 07:26:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To-Do-list admin
In-Reply-To: <B8374EFD9CD44024B82B532BB791F8F5@vpe.de>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904010726290984190b0b75@msapiro>

Helmut Schneider wrote:
>
>I did not touch the MTA setting, the only things I added are
>
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN
>PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
>SMTPHOST
>SMTPPORT
>
>Communication itself seems fine, i recieved a subscription reminder this 
>morning from mailman-owner. 


What is/are the address(es) listed for the owner of the mailman list?
Are they deliverable? This is where the aliases mail is sent.

What happens if you send mail to mailman-owner at ...?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  1 16:42:42 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 07:42:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm_cfg.py in /usr : SELinux problem
In-Reply-To: <1880765837.948451238578428411.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904010742420015907f5bf9@msapiro>

Daniel Novotny wrote:
>
>we are now having a problem, how to adapt mailman configuration (mm_cfg.py)
>to SELinux policy:
>
>it resides in /usr and the SELinux maintainer argues /usr should be read-only,
>which is not satisfied, when you change the configuration (and the .pyc file
>has to be generated in /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ , too)
>
>I have thought about the way to fix this problem: simply moving the
>file to /etc or /var is not enough, because it's part of the package "Mailman"
>and lots of files say "from Mailman import mm_cfg"
>
>any thoughts of this?
> thanks and regards,
>
>       Daniel Novotny, Red Hat inc.


I thought RedHat were the experts on this. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-October/017343.html>.

I understand your issue with mm_cfg. All I can suggest is symlinks
might help. I thought the current RedHat package currently has a
symlink /etc/mm_cfg.py -> /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py (or vice
versa). Does this help?

If the problem is strictly with mm_cfg.pyc, you may be able to make
/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.pyc an empty file with mode 0000 (or
(0400) so python won't try to write it.

If John Dennis is still at RedHat, he may be able to help as I think
he's probably thought about this more than anyone.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  1 16:48:40 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 07:48:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to set default list settings
In-Reply-To: <49D24BE7.3050106@tropotel.net>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904010748400500c9a56fdc@msapiro>

Salvatore D'Agostino wrote:

>Does anyone know where I can set the default settings for all newly 
>created lists so that I won't have to always log in to the website each 
>time and set them individually?


Most list settings have defaults in Mailman/Defaults.py. Read that file
to see what the settings are and override the ones you want to change
by setting them in mm_cfg.py. See <http://wiki.list.org/x/fIA9>.

You can also make an input file for bin/config_list containing those
settings you wish to change, and just run bin/config_list with that
file as input on the newly created list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  1 16:54:33 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 07:54:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debugging question
In-Reply-To: <20090331224448.GA31452@transpect.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904010754330031c9a56e00@msapiro>

Whit Blauvelt wrote:

>Okay, after an old Gentoo server died that was running mailman happily for
>years with sendmail, I rebuilt things on Ubuntu using a stock postfix with a
>custom-compiled mailman. The web interface all looks fine - the lists and
>their users are there - and the aliases are in place. But mail coming in
>disappears without an error message to tell me why. For instance:
>
>Mar 31 10:37:13 green postfix/local[28766]: 4E92B17FBEA: to=<xyz-announce at mm.xyz.org>, relay=local, delay=0.45,
>delays=0.02/0.02/0/0.4, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /web/mailman/mail/mailman post xyz-announce)
>
>Nothing happens further. No error message shows in any system log.
>
>Now, obviously I've set up something wrong. But how do I get some useful
>debugging messages so I can get properly clued here?


Have you started Mailman (bin/mailmanctl start)?

The above log entry says the mail was successfully delivered to the
mail wrapper, and in the absence of an error reported back to postfix,
was placed in Mailman's qfiles/in queue. Is it still there? Is there
anything in Mailman's error or other logs?

See <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jumper99 at gmx.de  Wed Apr  1 17:26:44 2009
From: jumper99 at gmx.de (Helmut Schneider)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 17:26:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To-Do-list admin
References: <PC1870200904010726290984190b0b75@msapiro>
Message-ID: <72C208332AFF45F1B3478383953388AF@vpe.de>

From: "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net>
> Helmut Schneider wrote:
>>
>> I did not touch the MTA setting, the only things I added are
>>
>> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST
>> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN
>> PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL
>> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>> DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
>> SMTPHOST
>> SMTPPORT
>>
>> Communication itself seems fine, i recieved a subscription reminder this
>> morning from mailman-owner.
>
>
> What is/are the address(es) listed for the owner of the mailman list?

postmaster at domain.tld

> Are they deliverable? This is where the aliases mail is sent.
> What happens if you send mail to mailman-owner at ...?

A mail to mailman-owner at domain.tld is forwarded to postmaster at domain.tld and 
gets delivered. 


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr  2 01:03:14 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 16:03:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To-Do-list admin
In-Reply-To: <72C208332AFF45F1B3478383953388AF@vpe.de>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904011603140515e7637c91@msapiro>

Helmut Schneider wrote:

>From: "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net>
>> Helmut Schneider wrote:
>>>
>>> I did not touch the MTA setting, the only things I added are
>>>
>>> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
>>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST
>>> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN
>>> PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL
>>> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>>> DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
>>> SMTPHOST
>>> SMTPPORT
>>>
>>> Communication itself seems fine, i recieved a subscription reminder this
>>> morning from mailman-owner.
>>
>>
>> What is/are the address(es) listed for the owner of the mailman list?
>
>postmaster at domain.tld
>
>> Are they deliverable? This is where the aliases mail is sent.
>> What happens if you send mail to mailman-owner at ...?
>
>A mail to mailman-owner at domain.tld is forwarded to postmaster at domain.tld and 
>gets delivered. 

And is that also true if it is sent via SMTPHOST:SMTPPORT (assuming
they are different from localhost)?

If so I don't know what the problem is. You can check Mailman's smtp
log and error log for messages at the time a list is cerated. Also,
check MTA logs.

If MTA = 'Manual' (the default), when a list is created via the web,
Mailman will send the 'aliases' mail to mailman-owner@(the email
domain of the list). Mailman should receive that and resend it to the
actual list owner.

If lists are created via bin/newlist, there is never an aliases email.
The aliases are just reported to stdout of the newlist command.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dnovotny at redhat.com  Thu Apr  2 13:55:35 2009
From: dnovotny at redhat.com (Daniel Novotny)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 07:55:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm_cfg.py in /usr : SELinux problem
In-Reply-To: <1456842928.1091061238673134605.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <1926085796.1091171238673335328.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com>


----- "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> I understand your issue with mm_cfg. All I can suggest is symlinks
> might help. I thought the current RedHat package currently has a
> symlink /etc/mm_cfg.py -> /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py (or vice
> versa). Does this help?
yes, the symlink is there, but nevertheless when mailman starts,
python tries to compile the file to /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman 
because this is where the entire package is

> 
> If the problem is strictly with mm_cfg.pyc, you may be able to make
> /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.pyc an empty file with mode 0000 (or
> (0400) so python won't try to write it.
python will try to write it and fail and this triggers the SELinux AVC denial
nevertheless

> 
> If John Dennis is still at RedHat, he may be able to help as I think
> he's probably thought about this more than anyone.
thanks for the contact, I will look if he's still here


The solution I created is to create a new script called
"mailman-update-cfg"'which contains the following:

#!/usr/bin/python
import py_compile

py_compile.compile("/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py")

in the mm_cfg.py there's a note, that if you use SELinux,
you have to run this script as root after you change
the configuration

what do you think about this? it's more of a work-around,
but it can be a part of the mailman init script in /etc/init.d

 regards,
   Daniel Novotny

> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From barry at list.org  Thu Apr  2 16:30:31 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:30:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wiki maintenance
Message-ID: <14364D62-0475-4220-87E9-46E691799C05@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Please note that our hosting provider will be conducting some schedule  
maintenance on our wiki instance.  Thus wiki.list.org will be  
unavailable starting at 0900 UTC Saturday April 4, for "a few hours".

Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAknUzAgACgkQ2YZpQepbvXGKbgCfc9ZOQD4TzaZyr8sc6ygIic0G
tuYAn1B2m+B+Lh6NwIkTNDOetn814Piu
=7o8K
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From brad at python.org  Thu Apr  2 19:02:59 2009
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:02:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wiki maintenance
In-Reply-To: <14364D62-0475-4220-87E9-46E691799C05@list.org>
References: <14364D62-0475-4220-87E9-46E691799C05@list.org>
Message-ID: <49D4EFC3.6030207@python.org>

Barry Warsaw wrote:

> Please note that our hosting provider will be conducting some schedule 
> maintenance on our wiki instance.  Thus wiki.list.org will be 
> unavailable starting at 0900 UTC Saturday April 4, for "a few hours".

So says the FLUFL, so shall it be.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From CNulk at scu.edu  Thu Apr  2 21:48:27 2009
From: CNulk at scu.edu (Chris Nulk)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:48:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman password reminders
Message-ID: <49D4B414.C780.0050.0@scu.edu>

Hello all,
 
I know I can stop password reminders from going out to list members by turning off the reminders in the list configuration.  I also know I can comment out the cron entry for mailpasswd to stop it for all lists.  In addition, I know I can send reminders using mailpasswd  to a specific list(s).  But, can I exclude sending reminders to specifics lists with mailpasswd.  What I would like to do is send the normal monthly reminders to most of our lists.  There is a small group of lists that I want reminders to be sent to but on a quarterly/yearly basis instead.

Can I do this using mailpasswd or some other way?  Or should I pull out the big hacking sword, close my eyes, and have a go at mailpasswd?  And, does anyone really want to see the results if I do?

Thanks,
Chris


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr  2 23:22:33 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 14:22:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman password reminders
In-Reply-To: <49D4B414.C780.0050.0@scu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC187020090402142233082852675f1d@msapiro>

Chris Nulk wrote:
> 
>I know I can stop password reminders from going out to list members by turning off the reminders in the list configuration.  I also know I can comment out the cron entry for mailpasswd to stop it for all lists.  In addition, I know I can send reminders using mailpasswd  to a specific list(s).  But, can I exclude sending reminders to specifics lists with mailpasswd.  What I would like to do is send the normal monthly reminders to most of our lists.  There is a small group of lists that I want reminders to be sent to but on a quarterly/yearly basis instead.
>
>Can I do this using mailpasswd or some other way?  Or should I pull out the big hacking sword, close my eyes, and have a go at mailpasswd?  And, does anyone really want to see the results if I do?


I don't recommend the hack away with eyes closed method, but it
shouldn't be too difficult to add a -x/--exclude option to mailpasswds.

On the other hand you could do something like

#!/bin/sh
excludes=`cat /path/to/lists/to/exclude`
for list in `/path/to/bin/list_lists --bare` ; do
  skip=0
  for xlist in $excludes ; do
    if [ $list == $xlist ] ; then skip=1 ; fi
  done
  if [ $skip == 0 ] ; then
    /path/to/cron/mailpasswds -l $list
  fi
done

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From beauj at cisco.com  Fri Apr  3 05:42:45 2009
From: beauj at cisco.com (Beau James)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 20:42:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Triggering password reminders from the Web UI?
Message-ID: <200904030342.n333gjiA027555@cisco.com>

MailMan 2.1.11, on a shared-hosting ISP ...

Is there any way from the Web UI for the list administrator to trigger
mailman to send the password reminder to all list members?  (The
administrator can trigger it to a specific member.)

Is there any way to find out via the Web UI, the schedule on which
password reminders will be sent to the entire list when "send monthly
password reminders" is selected on the general list properties?

Thanks.

Beau

From cgregory at hwcn.org  Thu Apr  2 21:54:51 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 15:54:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Soft bounces....
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904021549070.16729@barton.hwcn.org>

Hallo!

Running into a small bit of frustration.

Yahoo expects me to respond promptly to 5xx bounces, disabling any 
subscriptions, otherwise it starts generating 'greylist' 4xx bounces for 
my mail. Unfortunately, if I try to lower the bounce threshold, the 
now-daily occurence of 4xx bounces guarantees that all yahoo addresses 
will end up disabled. Is there any way, short of fiddling with and 
recompiling from source, to separate 'hard' bounce handling from 'soft' 
bounce handling, or to change the 'scores' that each accumulates?

Or any other trick to handle bounces properly when yahoo is tossing out 
greylist deferrals. At this point is just amounts to a nuisance with 
delayed deliveries for a lot of list mail. But it would be better to have 
our mailman properly disable when 5xx errors occur....

- Charles, HWCN

From flatts1 at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  2 06:23:01 2009
From: flatts1 at yahoo.com (Mike Flaherty)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 21:23:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't change host name preference
Message-ID: <81706.73694.qm@web53804.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello,
?
I am trying to set up Mailman on a new domain.? I have done it in the past without issue, but now I have a really bizzare problem.
?
When I go to the "MYLIST mailing list administration General Options Section" page, I notice the following entry preloaded in the "Host name this list prefers for email" field...
?
syd.xobas.net
?
I have NO IDEA where this is coming from.? It is not my domain, so I replace it with my own.
?
However, when I click the "Submit your changes" button, it goes to an invalid page.? When I try again, I notice that when I hover over the button, the URL that it translates to incorporates that "syd.xobas.net" domain into the URL.
?
I looked all over my server (a vps running CentOS 5) for where that entry might be coming from.? I did find an occurance of it in 
?
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/MYLIST/index.html
?
and
?
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/index.html
?
But I don't know how it got there.? Where is the?proper place to replace that domain with my own?
?
Thanks Much,
Mike


      

From Mario at infokeep.com.br  Wed Apr  1 20:57:05 2009
From: Mario at infokeep.com.br (Mario Sergio)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:57:05 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems in Mailman
Message-ID: <D6EDC4B58EAF5C4C8D01EC8D58536040409112@keepex.intranet.infokeep>

Hi list,

 

I'm having some problems with a Mailman. When I accept an email that was
received in a list, I get this in the error log:

 

Apr 01 14:57:01 2009 (2315) SHUNTING:
1238608621.3245921+6e71fad398d2eba77746fc941cf6b1123ed7ecd3

Apr 01 14:57:01 2009 (2315) Uncaught runner exception: invalid load key,
'7'.

Apr 01 14:57:01 2009 (2315) Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop

    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile

    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose

    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline

    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py", line 109, in
process

    Hold.hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, Hold.NonMemberPost)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 243, in
hold_for_approval

    cookie = mlist.pend_new(Pending.HELD_MESSAGE, id)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 65, in pend_new

    db = self.__load()

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 95, in __load

    return cPickle.load(fp)

UnpicklingError: invalid load key, '7'.

 

And this:

 

Apr 01 15:09:57 2009 (2312) SHUNTING:
1238609343.8684261+bff1c62c38a18427c91c1a4bb7ca5f7dfe15a267

Apr 01 15:11:01 2009 (2312) Uncaught runner exception: bad marshal data

Apr 01 15:11:01 2009 (2312) Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop

    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile

    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in
_dispose

    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
ArchiveMail

    h.processUnixMailbox(f)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 583, in
processUnixMailbox

    self.add_article(a)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 635, in
add_article

    article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 667, in
get_parent_info

    article.subject)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 311,
in getOldestArticle

    self.__openIndices(archive)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251,
in __openIndices

    t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 65, in
__init__

    self.load()

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 170,
in load

    self.dict = marshal.load(fp)

ValueError: bad marshal data

 

 

The qfiles/shunt directory is empty:

 

[root at andromeda01 mailman]# ls -la qfiles/shunt/

total 8

drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Mar 25 10:36 .

drwxrwsr-x 11 root    mailman 4096 Mar 25 10:36 ..

 

In the data directory I have some files .pck, like this:

 

[root at andromeda01 mailman]# ls -la data/

total 69048

drwsrwsr-x 2 root    mailman   20480 Abr  1 15:46 .

drwxrwsr-x 9 root    mailman    4096 Abr  1 14:37 ..

-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2295278 Abr  1 15:46
heldmsg-cobranca-23.pck

-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman  489013 Abr  1 15:46
heldmsg-cobranca-24.pck

-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman    1463 Abr  1 15:46
heldmsg-cobranca-35.pck

-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman    4431 Abr  1 15:45
heldmsg-informatica-10.pck

-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman    5026 Abr  1 15:45
heldmsg-informatica-11.pck

-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman   98672 Abr  1 15:45
heldmsg-informatica-12.pck

-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman    4431 Abr  1 15:45
heldmsg-informatica-13.pck

[snip]

 

I run the check_db command, and it's report this:

 

[root at andromeda01 mailman]# check_db --all --verbose

Lista: direta

     /var/lib/mailman/lists/direta/config.pck: Ok

     /var/lib/mailman/lists/direta/config.pck.last: Ok

    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/direta/config.db'

    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/direta/config.db.last'

Lista: vendasf

     /var/lib/mailman/lists/vendasf/config.pck: Ok

     /var/lib/mailman/lists/vendasf/config.pck.last: Ok

    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/vendasf/config.db'

    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/vendasf/config.db.last'

Lista: marketing

     /var/lib/mailman/lists/marketing/config.pck: Ok

     /var/lib/mailman/lists/marketing/config.pck.last: Ok

    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/marketing/config.db'

    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/marketing/config.db.last'

Lista: juridico

     /var/lib/mailman/lists/juridico/config.pck: Ok

     /var/lib/mailman/lists/juridico/config.pck.last: Ok

    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/juridico/config.db'

    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/juridico/config.db.last'

 

And the message doesn't delivery.

 

What I need to do to fix this problem? 

 

---

Regards,

MS


From s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk  Wed Apr  1 11:41:40 2009
From: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk (Steff Watkins)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:41:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce updating
In-Reply-To: <49CBA1A9.2080508@tropotel.net>
References: <49CBA1A9.2080508@tropotel.net>
Message-ID: <B61F4F3E3CA36C42AD232F19CD716E6801B2B6D8@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>

> Hi all,
> 
> I have a question about the mailman bounce procedure. Is it  possible
to 
> obtain a list of bounces that were removed from the list due  to a
high 
> "score"? Essentially what I want to do is create a list of  members
that 
> were removed from the list due to bounces and present that  list to
the 
> list owner. Is there a built in function that can do it, or  is there
a 
> way I can do it manually? If this question has already been  addressed
in 
> the FAQ, I apologize, I might have missed it (there were a lot of 
> topics). If you can just point me in the right direction in  that
case, I 
> would be very grateful.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Sam

Hello Sam (and others),

 I had a similar-ish scenario a few weeks back. Quick story: the Mailman
setup here had a short spate of auto-unsubscribing people from various
lists at 9am every day for about four days. One of the lists had about
100 people removed in one morning and the list owner queried whether I
could supply them with a list of those who were unsubscribed .

The easy solution I found was to grep the 'subscribe' logfile for the
listname and the phrase 'auto-unsubscribe' which returns lines like:

Mar 11 09:00:02 2009 (1577) somelist: *******@***.***.net
auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]

Looking into it a bit further I found that the 'bounce' logfile records
some (minorly) useful info about what it is doing. Doing a grep on the
term 'disabled' returns lines such as:

Mar 10 09:00:02 2009 (3577) Notifying disabled member ***@***.org for
list: somelist

What may be of most use to you however is to modify this grep to match
the phrase "deleted after 
exhausting notices" which I believe is the error line given when an
email address goes over its bounce score. This returns lines such as:

Mar 12 09:00:02 2009 (3388) somelist: ******@********.com deleted after
exhausting notices

>From there it is a short hop to having a script running under cron
that'll grep through the bounce logfile, matching lines containing
"deleted after exhausting notices" within the cronjob cycle period which
would dump the output to stdio and so by default email back to you.

Regards,
Steff Watkins
=======

From todd.giles at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 02:26:05 2009
From: todd.giles at gmail.com (Todd Giles)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:26:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator and Admin emails not being sent...
Message-ID: <551da360904021726y6d3d95dh3ba07f5a7acca8b3@mail.gmail.com>

I've been debugging this for some time now, multiple google searches, etc...
all to no avail.  I have a mailman list setup and working fine, with the
exception of moderator and admin emails not being sent (at least not
received).  I've narrowed down to one fairly simple test case, that is to
leave an unmoderated email in the list, and then to run the following
command on my server:
% /usr/local/bin/python -S checkdbs

After running this command, my expectation is to get an email sent out
notifying me of the unmoderated email in the list.  I never get this email,
but I do get the following entries in various logs directly after running
that above command:

/var/log/maillog:

Apr  2 18:22:02 gileszone.com sendmail[12438]: n330M2rP012438:
from=<sandia-bounces+sandia-owner=gileszone.com at gileszone.com>, size=990,
class=-60, nrcpts=1, msgid=<mailman.0.1238718120.12361.sandia at gileszone.com>,
proto=ESMTP, relay=gileszone.com [69.36.169.41]
Apr  2 18:22:02 gileszone.com sendmail[12438]: n330M2rP012438:
to="|/home/gileszone/mailman/mail/mailman post sandia", ctladdr=<
sandia-owner at gileszone.com> (2058/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
mailer=prog, pri=139180, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

mailman/logs/smtp:

Apr 02 18:22:02 2009 (9073) <mailman.0.1238718120.12361.sandia at gileszone.com>
smtp to sandia for 1 recips, completed in 0.104 second

mailman/logs/vette:

Apr 02 18:22:03 2009 (9071) Message discarded, msgid: <
mailman.0.1238718120.12361.sandia at gileszone.com>

All other mailman logs have no new entries. I've verified many times that
the list owner email address is setup properly (which it is - with a single
entry of this email address).  I'm currently at a loss as to why I'm unable
to get admin and moderator emails sent out to me --- any help would be
greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

-Todd

From whit+mailman at transpect.com  Thu Apr  2 16:11:17 2009
From: whit+mailman at transpect.com (Whit Blauvelt)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 10:11:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debugging question
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904010754330031c9a56e00@msapiro>
References: <20090331224448.GA31452@transpect.com>
	<PC1870200904010754330031c9a56e00@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090402141117.GA21813@transpect.com>

On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 07:54:33AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  See <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

Thanks Mark. I hadn't found that page. That was plenty to fix it.

I'd looked at the wiki without finding that. Maybe it's because the "Site
Administrator Tasks" page it's linked from is an unordered hodge-podge.
Maybe I didn't find it because debugging an install seemed like something
that would be included in "Downloading and Installing," or "Integration
Issues."

Since "Downloading and Installing" and "Integration Issues" are also tasks
for the site administrator, would it make better sense to also break out
sections on "Debugging," "Site Upgrades," and perhaps "Mods"? Or maybe to
fold thse all under "Site Administrator Tasks" but have that all
subsectioned logically, rather than a mostly-random list?

I know - it's a wiki and presumably I could jump in and rearrange stuff. I'd
do that, if there's a sense that it's appropriate and no one with real
expertise on Mailman wants to take it on.

Best,
Whit

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr  3 09:05:59 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 02:05:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Soft bounces....
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904021549070.16729@barton.hwcn.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904021549070.16729@barton.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <49D5B557.4050101@shub-internet.org>

on 4/2/09 2:54 PM, Charles Gregory said:

> Yahoo expects me to respond promptly to 5xx bounces, disabling any 
> subscriptions, otherwise it starts generating 'greylist' 4xx bounces for 
> my mail. Unfortunately, if I try to lower the bounce threshold, the 
> now-daily occurence of 4xx bounces guarantees that all yahoo addresses 
> will end up disabled. Is there any way, short of fiddling with and 
> recompiling from source, to separate 'hard' bounce handling from 'soft' 
> bounce handling, or to change the 'scores' that each accumulates?

Thing is, Mailman doesn't see the 5xx or 4xx codes directly.  It hands 
the messages off to your MTA, and your MTA sees those codes.

A 5xx permanent failure should result in a pretty much immediate bounce 
from your MTA back to Mailman.  But by default, Mailman is only going to 
count one bounce per day per recipient.

Your MTA may hold onto the messages in the queue for many hours or days 
before a message is sent back to Mailman informing it of the delay of a 
message resulting from a 4xx temporary failure.


Since we do not, and we cannot, have direct access to the 5xx versus 4xx 
response codes from Yahoo!, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to try 
to modify the code to treat a bounce resulting from a permanent 5xx 
response code any different from a "delayed message" notice resulting 
from a temporary 4xx response code.

> Or any other trick to handle bounces properly when yahoo is tossing out 
> greylist deferrals. At this point is just amounts to a nuisance with 
> delayed deliveries for a lot of list mail. But it would be better to 
> have our mailman properly disable when 5xx errors occur....

Set up your MTA to handle Yahoo! separately from other sites, so that 
any slow downs there don't slow you down in getting to other domains, 
and vice-versa.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr  3 09:11:08 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 02:11:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debugging question
In-Reply-To: <20090402141117.GA21813@transpect.com>
References: <20090331224448.GA31452@transpect.com>	<PC1870200904010754330031c9a56e00@msapiro>
	<20090402141117.GA21813@transpect.com>
Message-ID: <49D5B68C.70002@shub-internet.org>

on 4/2/09 9:11 AM, Whit Blauvelt said:

> Since "Downloading and Installing" and "Integration Issues" are also tasks
> for the site administrator, would it make better sense to also break out
> sections on "Debugging," "Site Upgrades," and perhaps "Mods"? Or maybe to
> fold thse all under "Site Administrator Tasks" but have that all
> subsectioned logically, rather than a mostly-random list?

Problem is, what makes sense for one person doesn't necessarily make 
sense for someone else.  What's there is not as well organized as it 
could be, but from my perspective it's not so horribly bad.

That said, perhaps there is some middle ground that might be more useful 
than what we have now, and would make sense to a broader group of people.


IMO, what would be really useful would be a tagging-based system, so 
that a single entry could show up in multiple "sections".  But I think 
that would mean either a complete re-write of the wiki code itself, or 
at least a substantial change to the way we use the wiki.  I'm not sure 
that either of those are feasible in the short term.

> I know - it's a wiki and presumably I could jump in and rearrange stuff. I'd
> do that, if there's a sense that it's appropriate and no one with real
> expertise on Mailman wants to take it on.

I'd say that you have the power to make whatever changes you think 
should be made, and if we don't like them then we can revert to earlier 
versions.  So, feel free to hack away!

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From chris at westnet.com  Fri Apr  3 16:04:45 2009
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 10:04:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Soft bounces....
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904021549070.16729@barton.hwcn.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904021549070.16729@barton.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0904031003140.18747@westnet.com>

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009, Charles Gregory wrote:

> Yahoo expects me to respond promptly to 5xx bounces, disabling any
> subscriptions, otherwise it starts generating 'greylist' 4xx bounces for my
> mail. Unfortunately, if I try to lower the bounce threshold, the now-daily
> occurence of 4xx bounces guarantees that all yahoo addresses will end up

This doesn't quite make sense, because 4xx isn't a bounce. It's a delay code 
to your mail server to try again later.

sendmail, by default, generates a warning back to the sender if it hasn't 
been able to deliver it for 4 hours, and that notice MIGHT be interpreted as 
a bounce, but that's the only thing I could think of.

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 948-3162
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  3 16:20:14 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 07:20:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Triggering password reminders from the Web UI?
In-Reply-To: <200904030342.n333gjiA027555@cisco.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090403072014048422b145f2@msapiro>

Beau James wrote:

>MailMan 2.1.11, on a shared-hosting ISP ...
>
>Is there any way from the Web UI for the list administrator to trigger
>mailman to send the password reminder to all list members?  (The
>administrator can trigger it to a specific member.)


No.


>Is there any way to find out via the Web UI, the schedule on which
>password reminders will be sent to the entire list when "send monthly
>password reminders" is selected on the general list properties?


No. The reminders are sent by Mailman's cron/mailpasswds. The default
schedule is 5:00 A.M. server local time on the first of the month, but
the ISP could change this or not run the job at all.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  3 16:29:06 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 07:29:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Soft bounces....
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904021549070.16729@barton.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904030729060015499da595@msapiro>

Charles Gregory wrote:
>
>Yahoo expects me to respond promptly to 5xx bounces, disabling any 
>subscriptions, otherwise it starts generating 'greylist' 4xx bounces for 
>my mail. Unfortunately, if I try to lower the bounce threshold, the 
>now-daily occurence of 4xx bounces guarantees that all yahoo addresses 
>will end up disabled. Is there any way, short of fiddling with and 
>recompiling from source, to separate 'hard' bounce handling from 'soft' 
>bounce handling, or to change the 'scores' that each accumulates?
>
>Or any other trick to handle bounces properly when yahoo is tossing out 
>greylist deferrals. At this point is just amounts to a nuisance with 
>delayed deliveries for a lot of list mail. But it would be better to have 
>our mailman properly disable when 5xx errors occur....


Why is your MTA returning 4xx status to Mailman as a bounce? Your MTA
should be retrying these and eventually delivering them.

If you're getting "bounces" like "message undeliverable after 4 hours;
will keep trying until message is 5 days old" Mailman should be
ignoring those. If it isn't, send me a complete, raw copy of the DSN,
and I'll fix it and tell you how to fix yours.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  3 16:46:17 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 07:46:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't change host name preference
In-Reply-To: <81706.73694.qm@web53804.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904030746170578266f1593@msapiro>

Mike Flaherty wrote:
>?
>I am trying to set up Mailman on a new domain.? I have done it in the past without issue, but now I have a really bizzare problem.
>?
>When I go to the "MYLIST mailing list administration General Options Section" page, I notice the following entry preloaded in the "Host name this list prefers for email" field...
>?
>syd.xobas.net
>?
>I have NO IDEA where this is coming from.? It is not my domain, so I replace it with my own.


It comes from the add_virtualhost() entry for the domain. There should
be an

add_virtualhost('web_domain', 'email_domain')

line in mm_cfg.py. Then if you create the list from the web interface
with a URL whose host name is 'web_domain', the list will be created
with host_name = 'email_domain'.

Likewise if you create the list with bin/newlist -u 'web_domain'


>However, when I click the "Submit your changes" button, it goes to an invalid page.


You mean a 404? If so, the list's web_page_url is also messed up.


When I try again, I notice that when I hover over the button, the URL
that it translates to incorporates that "syd.xobas.net" domain into
the URL.


Huh? The button is a submit action for a form. Are you saying the POST
action URL has host "syd.xobas.net"? If so, my best guess is that that
is the value of DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in your
installation.


>I looked all over my server (a vps running CentOS 5) for where that entry might be coming from.? I did find an occurance of it in 
>?
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/MYLIST/index.html
>?
>and
>?
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/index.html
>?
>But I don't know how it got there.? Where is the?proper place to replace that domain with my own?


In mm_cfg.py

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'your_web_domain'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'your_email_domain'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

plus add_virtualhost() lines for any additional domains.

Then run fix_url to fix the existing list, e.g.

  bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url 

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  3 17:04:20 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 08:04:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems in Mailman
In-Reply-To: <D6EDC4B58EAF5C4C8D01EC8D58536040409112@keepex.intranet.infokeep>
Message-ID: <PC18702009040308042006874b906c43@msapiro>

Mario Sergio wrote:
>
>I'm having some problems with a Mailman. When I accept an email that was
>received in a list, I get this in the error log:
>
> 
>
>Apr 01 14:57:01 2009 (2315) SHUNTING:
>1238608621.3245921+6e71fad398d2eba77746fc941cf6b1123ed7ecd3
>
>Apr 01 14:57:01 2009 (2315) Uncaught runner exception: invalid load key,
>'7'.
>
>Apr 01 14:57:01 2009 (2315) Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
>
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
>_dispose
>
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
>_dopipeline
>
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py", line 109, in
>process
>
>    Hold.hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, Hold.NonMemberPost)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 243, in
>hold_for_approval
>
>    cookie = mlist.pend_new(Pending.HELD_MESSAGE, id)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 65, in pend_new
>
>    db = self.__load()
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 95, in __load
>
>    return cPickle.load(fp)
>
>UnpicklingError: invalid load key, '7'.



For this one, the lists/listname/pending.pck is corrupt. Just remove it
or move it aside.



>And this:
>
> 
>
>Apr 01 15:09:57 2009 (2312) SHUNTING:
>1238609343.8684261+bff1c62c38a18427c91c1a4bb7ca5f7dfe15a267
>
>Apr 01 15:11:01 2009 (2312) Uncaught runner exception: bad marshal data
>
>Apr 01 15:11:01 2009 (2312) Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
>
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in
>_dispose
>
>    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
>ArchiveMail
>
>    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 583, in
>processUnixMailbox
>
>    self.add_article(a)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 635, in
>add_article
>
>    article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 667, in
>get_parent_info
>
>    article.subject)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 311,
>in getOldestArticle
>
>    self.__openIndices(archive)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251,
>in __openIndices
>
>    t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 65, in
>__init__
>
>    self.load()
>
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 170,
>in load
>
>    self.dict = marshal.load(fp)
>
>ValueError: bad marshal data



For this one, one of the archives/private/LISTNAME/database/* files is
corrupt, probably for the current month.



>The qfiles/shunt directory is empty:
>
> 
>
>[root at andromeda01 mailman]# ls -la qfiles/shunt/
>
>total 8
>
>drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Mar 25 10:36 .
>
>drwxrwsr-x 11 root    mailman 4096 Mar 25 10:36 ..


That's strange. Try to find them. E.g.

locate 1238609343.8684261+bff1c62c38a18427c91c1a4bb7ca5f7dfe15a267.pck

or

find / -name
1238609343.8684261+bff1c62c38a18427c91c1a4bb7ca5f7dfe15a267.pck -print


>In the data directory I have some files .pck, like this:
>
> 
>
>[root at andromeda01 mailman]# ls -la data/
>
>total 69048
>
>drwsrwsr-x 2 root    mailman   20480 Abr  1 15:46 .
>
>drwxrwsr-x 9 root    mailman    4096 Abr  1 14:37 ..
>
>-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2295278 Abr  1 15:46
>heldmsg-cobranca-23.pck
>
>-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman  489013 Abr  1 15:46
>heldmsg-cobranca-24.pck
>
>-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman    1463 Abr  1 15:46
>heldmsg-cobranca-35.pck
>
>-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman    4431 Abr  1 15:45
>heldmsg-informatica-10.pck
>
>-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman    5026 Abr  1 15:45
>heldmsg-informatica-11.pck
>
>-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman   98672 Abr  1 15:45
>heldmsg-informatica-12.pck
>
>-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman    4431 Abr  1 15:45
>heldmsg-informatica-13.pck


Those are held messages for the respective lists


>I run the check_db command, and it's report this:
>
> 
>
>[root at andromeda01 mailman]# check_db --all --verbose
>
>Lista: direta
>
>     /var/lib/mailman/lists/direta/config.pck: Ok
>
>     /var/lib/mailman/lists/direta/config.pck.last: Ok
>
>    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/var/lib/mailman/lists/direta/config.db'
>
>    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/var/lib/mailman/lists/direta/config.db.last'
>
>Lista: vendasf
>
>     /var/lib/mailman/lists/vendasf/config.pck: Ok
>
>     /var/lib/mailman/lists/vendasf/config.pck.last: Ok
>
>    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/var/lib/mailman/lists/vendasf/config.db'
>
>    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/var/lib/mailman/lists/vendasf/config.db.last'
>
>Lista: marketing
>
>     /var/lib/mailman/lists/marketing/config.pck: Ok
>
>     /var/lib/mailman/lists/marketing/config.pck.last: Ok
>
>    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/var/lib/mailman/lists/marketing/config.db'
>
>    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/var/lib/mailman/lists/marketing/config.db.last'
>
>Lista: juridico
>
>     /var/lib/mailman/lists/juridico/config.pck: Ok
>
>     /var/lib/mailman/lists/juridico/config.pck.last: Ok
>
>    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/var/lib/mailman/lists/juridico/config.db'
>
>    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/var/lib/mailman/lists/juridico/config.db.last'



That says the list's config.pck files are OK, but that's not the
problem.


>What I need to do to fix this problem? 


In the case of the first error, removing or moving aside the
lists/LISTNAME/pending.pck should avoid the problem.

In the case of the archiving issue, you may need to rebuild the archive
for the affected list with bin/arch --wipe

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From terri at zone12.com  Fri Apr  3 16:57:53 2009
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:57:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debugging question
In-Reply-To: <20090402141117.GA21813@transpect.com>
References: <20090331224448.GA31452@transpect.com>	<PC1870200904010754330031c9a56e00@msapiro>
	<20090402141117.GA21813@transpect.com>
Message-ID: <49D623F1.50303@zone12.com>

Whit Blauvelt wrote:
> I know - it's a wiki and presumably I could jump in and rearrange stuff. I'd
> do that, if there's a sense that it's appropriate and no one with real
> expertise on Mailman wants to take it on.

Oh, I've been trying to find someone willing to do this for months now 
(pretty much since I moved the FAQ wizard stuff to the new wiki).  If 
you want to volunteer, please do so with my blessing!

The current FAQ is ordered by "number when the answer was added" which 
is why it's kinda hard to find things.  No organization other than the 
top level sections.  If you could keep those old numbers in the post 
somewhere so anyone searching for old FAQ entry 4.24, say, can just 
search for 4.24 and find it, that would be good.

But other than that, please feel free to take a stab at it. Pretty 
please? :)

  Terri


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  3 17:20:40 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 08:20:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce updating
In-Reply-To: <B61F4F3E3CA36C42AD232F19CD716E6801B2B6D8@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC187020090403082040050095d3181c@msapiro>

Steff Watkins wrote:
>
>Looking into it a bit further I found that the 'bounce' logfile records
>some (minorly) useful info about what it is doing. Doing a grep on the
>term 'disabled' returns lines such as:
>
>Mar 10 09:00:02 2009 (3577) Notifying disabled member ***@***.org for
>list: somelist


The above log entry is written when a member whose delivery has been
disabled by bounce is sent a warning message by cron/disabled.
 

>What may be of most use to you however is to modify this grep to match
>the phrase "deleted after 
>exhausting notices" which I believe is the error line given when an
>email address goes over its bounce score. This returns lines such as:
>
>Mar 12 09:00:02 2009 (3388) somelist: ******@********.com deleted after
>exhausting notices


Actually, the above log entry is written when the member is removed
from the list which may or may not be at the same time as when the
member's score hits the threshold depending of
bonce_you_are_disabled_warnings.

When a member's score reaches the threshold, the bounce log entry is

Mar 22 12:32:05 2009 (5641) LISTNAME: user at example.com disabling due to
bounce score n.n >= n.n

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jumper99 at gmx.de  Fri Apr  3 17:29:00 2009
From: jumper99 at gmx.de (Helmut Schneider)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 17:29:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To-Do-list admin
References: <PC1870200904011603140515e7637c91@msapiro>
Message-ID: <3BB31FFF39A14974A9626D0FEDE93B8A@vpe.de>

From: "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net>
> Helmut Schneider wrote:
>
>> From: "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net>
>>> Helmut Schneider wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I did not touch the MTA setting, the only things I added are
>>>>
>>>> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
>>>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST
>>>> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN
>>>> PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL
>>>> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>>>> DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
>>>> SMTPHOST
>>>> SMTPPORT
>>>>
>>>> Communication itself seems fine, i recieved a subscription
>>>> reminder this morning from mailman-owner.
>>>
>>>
>>> What is/are the address(es) listed for the owner of the mailman list?
>>
>> postmaster at domain.tld
>>
>>> Are they deliverable? This is where the aliases mail is sent.
>>> What happens if you send mail to mailman-owner at ...?
>>
>> A mail to mailman-owner at domain.tld is forwarded to
>> postmaster at domain.tld and  gets delivered.
>
> And is that also true if it is sent via SMTPHOST:SMTPPORT (assuming
> they are different from localhost)?

Yes.

Nevermind, I kicked the installation and installed from scratch, now it's 
fine.

Thanks, Helmut 


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  3 17:45:35 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 08:45:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator and Admin emails not being sent...
In-Reply-To: <551da360904021726y6d3d95dh3ba07f5a7acca8b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009040308453507960ef2303f@msapiro>

Todd Giles wrote:

>I've been debugging this for some time now, multiple google searches, etc...
>all to no avail.  I have a mailman list setup and working fine, with the
>exception of moderator and admin emails not being sent (at least not
>received).  I've narrowed down to one fairly simple test case, that is to
>leave an unmoderated email in the list, and then to run the following
>command on my server:
>% /usr/local/bin/python -S checkdbs
>
>After running this command, my expectation is to get an email sent out
>notifying me of the unmoderated email in the list.  I never get this email,
>but I do get the following entries in various logs directly after running
>that above command:
>
>/var/log/maillog:
>
>Apr  2 18:22:02 gileszone.com sendmail[12438]: n330M2rP012438:
>from=<sandia-bounces+sandia-owner=gileszone.com at gileszone.com>, size=990,
>class=-60, nrcpts=1, msgid=<mailman.0.1238718120.12361.sandia at gileszone.com>,
>proto=ESMTP, relay=gileszone.com [69.36.169.41]
>Apr  2 18:22:02 gileszone.com sendmail[12438]: n330M2rP012438:
>to="|/home/gileszone/mailman/mail/mailman post sandia", ctladdr=<
>sandia-owner at gileszone.com> (2058/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
>mailer=prog, pri=139180, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


It appears that the problem is that your alias for sandia-owner is

sandia-owner:  "|/home/gileszone/mailman/mail/mailman post sandia"

instead of

sandia-owner:  "|/home/gileszone/mailman/mail/mailman owner sandia"


Thus mailman sends the notice to sandia-owner and instead of being
received as a message to -owner, it is received as a post and
discarded as being a post from a non-member.

You would probably do well to check all your aliases.


>mailman/logs/smtp:
>
>Apr 02 18:22:02 2009 (9073) <mailman.0.1238718120.12361.sandia at gileszone.com>
>smtp to sandia for 1 recips, completed in 0.104 second


message sent to sandia-owner


>mailman/logs/vette:
>
>Apr 02 18:22:03 2009 (9071) Message discarded, msgid: <
>mailman.0.1238718120.12361.sandia at gileszone.com>


received as a list post from
sandia-bounces+sandia-owner=gileszone.com at gileszone.com and discarded
as a non-member post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Fri Apr  3 18:18:45 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 17:18:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Googlegroups vs mailman
In-Reply-To: <20090306025900.GR6339@amyl.org.uk>
References: <ab1e63aa0903050709y5786d0acja195befa9871382f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090306025900.GR6339@amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20090403161844.GA15600@amyl.org.uk>

On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 02:59:00AM +0000, Adam McGreggor wrote:
> (and, my own experience, config'ing a Mailman list is *so* much easier
> (and obvious). Particulary when trying to get a code-repo commit
> messages...)

Oh, and another thing, Mailman is *so* much easier to config allowed
senders (from non-list-members), particularly, when, for example, the
Googlegroups' owner's email address contains an alias, but one can't add
that alias as an authorized-sender (equiv), IME.

(e.g, foo at gmail.com is the owner, and associated to that account is
baa at example.org; sending mail from baa at example.org will cause a
hold-up/moderation note, but one can't add baa at example.org to the group,
as it "already exists" or something of that ilk.)

Wretchedly annoying, particularly on a commits list, for a google-code
project. Bah!

-- 
``Freedom of the press in Britain means freedom to print such of the
  proprietor's prejudices as the advertisers don't object to.''
  (Hannen Swaffer)

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  3 18:53:03 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:53:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [-0.5] Re:  Soft bounces....
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904031027250.16729@barton.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904030953030140f539a54f@msapiro>

Charles Gregory wrote:

>On Fri, 3 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> If you're getting "bounces" like "message undeliverable after 4 hours;
>> will keep trying until message is 5 days old" Mailman should be
>> ignoring those.
>
>I apologize for not thinking through the fact that a 4xx would have to 
>continue for 4 hours before mailman ever heard about it, but now you are 
>saying that notice is ignored. So, I seem to have misunderstood the docs.
>I thought '4xx' errors (when they get back to mailman) were 'soft', so 
>if 'message undeliverable for 4 hours' doesn't count, then what 
>messages does mailman treat as a 'soft' bounce and only score 0.5?


If it's an RFC 3464 compliant DSN with and action of "delayed" or some
heuristically recognized equivalent, it is ignored. The difference
between a hard 1.0 bounce and a soft 0.5 bounce was never implemented
even though the docs say it works that way. The difference, if it were
implemented, would be that failure action with a "4xx" or "552" status
would count as 0.5 and other failures would count as 1.0, but this is
not the way it currently works. All failures count as 1.0 (but only
one bounce per day counts).


>> If it isn't, send me a complete, raw copy of the DSN,
>> and I'll fix it and tell you how to fix yours.
>
>I'm not working on DSN's, I'm fighting with yahoo over large numbers of 
>stupid, needless 4xx delays in my mail logs (and log reports). There 
>aren't very many things in their generic 'explanations' that seem to 
>apply. So I'm trying to cut down on our system attempting to send mail to 
>5xx recipients at Yahoo.


However, it's only DSNs that Mailman sees, unless your MTA reports a
"4xx" or "5xx" status back to Mailman during Mailman's SMTP with the
MTA. In this case, Mailman will log these in smtp-failure and retry
the "4xx" and "552" statuses at 15 minute intervals for 5 days, and
treat the other "5xx" statuses as hard bounces.


>Further to this topic, another suggestion from Yahoo would be to use 
>different IP addresses for different classes of mail. Short of running the 
>mail on a separate server, I was thinking I might try running a separate 
>instance of postfix to send mail from a separate IP. But then how would I 
>tell mailman to use *that* instance of postfix?


SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  3 20:08:15 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:08:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password reminder on private archive login page
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.58.0903301619450.1704098@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <PC18702009040311081507035e49bc8e@msapiro>

Cihan Yildirim-Yucel wrote:
>
>Can I put the password reminder on private archive login page? So that,
>list members who want to see the archive, but do not remember their
>passwords, can quickly learn their passwords. Otherwise, password
>reminder is too hard to find using the links on general list info page..


This is a good idea. I think I'll implement it for Mailman 2.2.

What needs to be done is the reminder button has to be added to the
private.html archive login template and code needs to be added to
Mailman/Cgi/private.py to recognize the button and send the reminder.

You can look at Mailman/Cgi/options.py for how it's done there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  3 20:21:34 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:21:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm_cfg.py in /usr : SELinux problem
In-Reply-To: <1926085796.1091171238673335328.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009040311213409845e49bdba@msapiro>

Daniel Novotny wrote:
>
>The solution I created is to create a new script called
>"mailman-update-cfg"'which contains the following:
>
>#!/usr/bin/python
>import py_compile
>
>py_compile.compile("/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py")
>
>in the mm_cfg.py there's a note, that if you use SELinux,
>you have to run this script as root after you change
>the configuration
>
>what do you think about this? it's more of a work-around,
>but it can be a part of the mailman init script in /etc/init.d


Since the RedHat package already installs its own /etc/init.d/mailman,
I think this is a good solution for the RedHat package. For the rest
of us, we're pretty far from FHS compliance and presumably good
security policy manager compliance anyway.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Scott.1Jones at ge.com  Fri Apr  3 20:47:33 2009
From: Scott.1Jones at ge.com (Jones, Scott (GE Money, consultant))
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:47:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Testing, checking
Message-ID: <A72D33814AF8C34789CF947E425CD81809CF4EA2@ALPMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Is there a checklist of things to look over, once Mailman is installed,
to make sure the site becomes visible to the internet? 

My site, http://fyrenice.com/mailman works when I am at home on my LAN,
but I can't access it when not at home, i.e., it's not yet working
correctly. I have these ports opened: 22, 25, 80, 110, 443 via my
router. What other ports should I consider? 

Please advise!

Scott

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  3 21:31:04 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:31:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Testing, checking
In-Reply-To: <A72D33814AF8C34789CF947E425CD81809CF4EA2@ALPMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009040312310406875e49bc73@msapiro>

Jones, Scott wrote:

>Is there a checklist of things to look over, once Mailman is installed,
>to make sure the site becomes visible to the internet? 
>
>My site, http://fyrenice.com/mailman works when I am at home on my LAN,
>but I can't access it when not at home, i.e., it's not yet working
>correctly. I have these ports opened: 22, 25, 80, 110, 443 via my
>router. What other ports should I consider? 


Port 25 for incoming mail and ports 80/443 for incoming http/https are
all you need. Is your router forwarding those ports to the Mailman
machine?

Is 75.145.58.209 (the A record address for fyrenice.com and
mail.fyrenice.com) the IP address of the router.

Is there any other firewall involved?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr  3 21:48:40 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:48:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Testing, checking
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009040312310406875e49bc73@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009040312310406875e49bc73@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49D66818.70804@shub-internet.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Port 25 for incoming mail and ports 80/443 for incoming http/https are
> all you need. Is your router forwarding those ports to the Mailman
> machine?
> 
> Is 75.145.58.209 (the A record address for fyrenice.com and
> mail.fyrenice.com) the IP address of the router.
> 
> Is there any other firewall involved?

Maybe the ISP is blocking inbound port 25 and/or 80/443?

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From CNulk at scu.edu  Sat Apr  4 01:00:17 2009
From: CNulk at scu.edu (Chris Nulk)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:00:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman password reminders - Resolved
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090402142233082852675f1d@msapiro>
References: <49D4B414.C780.0050.0@scu.edu>
	<PC187020090402142233082852675f1d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49D63287.C780.0050.0@scu.edu>

With the excellent help of Mark Sapiro, I was able to resolve my issue with password reminders.  Basically, we wanted for the majority of our lists to have the normal monthly reminders.  For the select few lists, we wanted quarterly reminders.  I made a few modifications to mailpasswds which Mark cleaned up/refined to allow on option to exclude a list from password reminders.  This was needed since my select few lists need to leave the "send_reminders" setting to on but I didn't want the monthly reminders to go out for them.  Now, my cron job for the monthly reminders can exclude the select few lists and I can add additional cron jobs to send reminders to only the select few lists.  E.G.
 
# send reminders to all lists except for list-a, list-b, and list-c
0 5 1 * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds -x list-a -x list-b -x list-c
# send reminders to list-a and list-c in Jan, Apr, and Oct
0 5 1 1,4,10 * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds -l list-a -l list-c
# send reminders to list-b in Aug
0 5 1 8 * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds -l list-b
 
The new option/switch added is -x or --exclude-list (in long form).  I am including a diff of the changes from Mailman v2.1.9 below.  The options of -l and -x are mutually exclusive.
 
Thanks,
Chris
 
--------------------------- Diff Begins -------------------------------
34c34,40
<         allowed.
---
>         allowed.  This and the -x/--exclude-list option are mutually exclusive.
> 
>     -x listname
>     --exclude-list
>         Do not send password reminders for the excluded list.  If omitted,
>         reminders are sent for all lists.  Multiple -x/--exclude-list options
>         are allowed.  This and the -l/--listname option are mutually exclusive.
91,92c97,98
<         opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], 'l:h',
<                                    ['listname=', 'help'])
---
>         opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], 'l:x:h',
>                                    ['listname=', 'exclude-list=', 'help'])
99a106
>     excludedlists = None
103a111,112
>             if excludedlists:
>                 usage(1, '-l/--listname and -x/--exclude-list are mutually exclusive')
107a117,123
>         if opt in ('-x', '--exclude-list'):
>             if listnames:
>                 usage(1, '-l/--listname and -x/--exclude-list are mutually exclusive')
>             if excludedlists is None:
>                 excludedlists = [arg]
>             else:
>                 excludedlists.append(arg)
111a128,130
>     if excludedlists:
>         listnames = set(listnames) - set(excludedlists)
> 
--------------------------- Diff Ends ----------------------------------

>>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> Thursday, April 02, 2009 2:22 PM >>>
Chris Nulk wrote:
> 
>I know I can stop password reminders from going out to list members by turning off the reminders in the list configuration.  I also know I can comment out the cron entry for mailpasswd to stop it for all lists.  In addition, I know I can send reminders using mailpasswd  to a specific list(s).  But, can I exclude sending reminders to specifics lists with mailpasswd.  What I would like to do is send the normal monthly reminders to most of our lists.  There is a small group of lists that I want reminders to be sent to but on a quarterly/yearly basis instead.
>
>Can I do this using mailpasswd or some other way?  Or should I pull out the big hacking sword, close my eyes, and have a go at mailpasswd?  And, does anyone really want to see the results if I do?


I don't recommend the hack away with eyes closed method, but it
shouldn't be too difficult to add a -x/--exclude option to mailpasswds.

On the other hand you could do something like

#!/bin/sh
excludes=`cat /path/to/lists/to/exclude`
for list in `/path/to/bin/list_lists --bare` ; do
  skip=0
  for xlist in $excludes ; do
    if [ $list == $xlist ] ; then skip=1 ; fi
  done
  if [ $skip == 0 ] ; then
    /path/to/cron/mailpasswds -l $list
  fi
done

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From barry at python.org  Sat Apr  4 20:28:54 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 14:28:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm_cfg.py in /usr : SELinux problem
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009040311213409845e49bdba@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009040311213409845e49bdba@msapiro>
Message-ID: <11E1394A-AD5A-4355-8AB7-3DB7A869FEFF@python.org>

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Hash: SHA1

On Apr 3, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Since the RedHat package already installs its own /etc/init.d/mailman,
> I think this is a good solution for the RedHat package. For the rest
> of us, we're pretty far from FHS compliance and presumably good
> security policy manager compliance anyway.

Yes, sadly Mailman predates the FHS by a long shot.  Mailman 3 will be  
FHS compliant.

Barry

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From cgregory at hwcn.org  Fri Apr  3 15:50:19 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:50:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Soft bounces....
In-Reply-To: <49D5B557.4050101@shub-internet.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904021549070.16729@barton.hwcn.org>
	<49D5B557.4050101@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904030930430.16729@barton.hwcn.org>

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009, Brad Knowles wrote:
>>  Yahoo expects me to respond promptly to 5xx bounces, disabling any
>>  subscriptions, otherwise it starts generating 'greylist' 4xx bounces for
>>  my mail. Unfortunately, if I try to lower the bounce threshold, the
>>  now-daily occurence of 4xx bounces guarantees that all yahoo addresses
>>  will end up disabled. Is there any way, short of fiddling with and
>>  recompiling from source, to separate 'hard' bounce handling from 'soft'
>>  bounce handling, or to change the 'scores' that each accumulates?
> Thing is, Mailman doesn't see the 5xx or 4xx codes directly.  It hands 
> the messages off to your MTA, and your MTA sees those codes.

Good point. Even though I'm seeing 'deferals' in the MTA logs, they 
don't go long enough to generate '4 hour warnings' that mailman 
would have to handle as a 'soft bounce'. Just verified this in the logs
(where I should have looked first! LOL). Excellent! Thanks!

> Since we do not, and we cannot, have direct access to the 5xx versus 4xx 
> response codes from Yahoo!, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to try 
> to modify the code to treat a bounce resulting from a permanent 5xx 
> response code any different from a "delayed message" notice resulting 
> from a temporary 4xx response code.

(nod) No, all I need to do now is lower the threshold so Yahoo won't see 
so many attempts to send mail to 5xx addresses.... Then maybe they'll stop 
doing so many 4xx delays of my mail (not just a mailman problem, 
incidentally).

> Set up your MTA to handle Yahoo! separately from other sites, so that 
> any slow downs there don't slow you down in getting to other domains, 
> and vice-versa.

I use postfix, so the performance of yahoo delivery doesn't really impact 
other mail, other than the impact of the extra load of retries...
Though I find it ironic that Yahoo sends lots of mail to me for unknown 
users.... :)

Thanks again!

- Charles


From cgregory at hwcn.org  Fri Apr  3 16:34:54 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 10:34:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [-0.5] Re:  Soft bounces....
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904030729060015499da595@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200904030729060015499da595@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904031027250.16729@barton.hwcn.org>

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If you're getting "bounces" like "message undeliverable after 4 hours;
> will keep trying until message is 5 days old" Mailman should be
> ignoring those.

I apologize for not thinking through the fact that a 4xx would have to 
continue for 4 hours before mailman ever heard about it, but now you are 
saying that notice is ignored. So, I seem to have misunderstood the docs.
I thought '4xx' errors (when they get back to mailman) were 'soft', so 
if 'message undeliverable for 4 hours' doesn't count, then what 
messages does mailman treat as a 'soft' bounce and only score 0.5?

> If it isn't, send me a complete, raw copy of the DSN,
> and I'll fix it and tell you how to fix yours.

I'm not working on DSN's, I'm fighting with yahoo over large numbers of 
stupid, needless 4xx delays in my mail logs (and log reports). There 
aren't very many things in their generic 'explanations' that seem to 
apply. So I'm trying to cut down on our system attempting to send mail to 
5xx recipients at Yahoo.

Further to this topic, another suggestion from Yahoo would be to use 
different IP addresses for different classes of mail. Short of running the 
mail on a separate server, I was thinking I might try running a separate 
instance of postfix to send mail from a separate IP. But then how would I 
tell mailman to use *that* instance of postfix?

- Charles

From flatts1 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  3 17:23:22 2009
From: flatts1 at yahoo.com (Mike Flaherty)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 08:23:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't change host name preference
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904030746170578266f1593@msapiro>
Message-ID: <339649.66180.qm@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the detailed reply.
?
That fixed everything!!
?
- Mike

--- On Fri, 4/3/09, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't change host name preference
To: mflaherty at tidewise.com, mailman-users at python.org
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 10:46 AM

Mike Flaherty wrote:
>?
>I am trying to set up Mailman on a new domain.? I have done it in the past
without issue, but now I have a really bizzare problem.
>?
>When I go to the "MYLIST mailing list administration General Options
Section" page, I notice the following entry preloaded in the "Host
name this list prefers for email" field...
>?
>syd.xobas.net
>?
>I have NO IDEA where this is coming from.? It is not my domain, so I
replace it with my own.


It comes from the add_virtualhost() entry for the domain. There should
be an

add_virtualhost('web_domain', 'email_domain')

line in mm_cfg.py. Then if you create the list from the web interface
with a URL whose host name is 'web_domain', the list will be created
with host_name = 'email_domain'.

Likewise if you create the list with bin/newlist -u 'web_domain'


>However, when I click the "Submit your changes" button, it goes
to an invalid page.


You mean a 404? If so, the list's web_page_url is also messed up.


When I try again, I notice that when I hover over the button, the URL
that it translates to incorporates that "syd.xobas.net" domain into
the URL.


Huh? The button is a submit action for a form. Are you saying the POST
action URL has host "syd.xobas.net"? If so, my best guess is that
that
is the value of DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in your
installation.


>I looked all over my server (a vps running CentOS 5) for where that entry
might be coming from.? I did find an occurance of it in 
>?
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/MYLIST/index.html
>?
>and
>?
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/index.html
>?
>But I don't know how it got there.? Where is the?proper place to
replace that domain with my own?


In mm_cfg.py

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'your_web_domain'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'your_email_domain'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

plus add_virtualhost() lines for any additional domains.

Then run fix_url to fix the existing list, e.g.

  bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url 

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
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Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/flatts1%40yahoo.com

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9



      

From n4zr at contesting.com  Fri Apr  3 20:50:24 2009
From: n4zr at contesting.com (Pete Smith)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:50:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to receive Zimbra-generated mail forwarded
	by Mailman
Message-ID: <20090403185029.B4C5F1E40D2@bag.python.org>


I suspect that this might not be the right list for this question, 
but I have an odd problem that seems to be Mailman related.

In a nutshell, the body of an e-mail sent by a Zimbra Webclient 
through a Mailman list server is unreadable with Eudora 7.1.

The same e-mail, sent by the same sender from the same client, when 
sent directly to me (not via Mailman), comes through fine).

This happens on at least two different Mailman installations, one at 
contesting.com, the other at mailman.qth.net.

I have one such set of e-mails, with full headers, available for 
anyone who is interested in this problem, but I won't clog up the list with it.

Thanks in advance,

Pete Smith 


From robertm808 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  3 20:29:51 2009
From: robertm808 at yahoo.com (Robert McGuire)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:29:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New to the List Serve - responding to posts issue
Message-ID: <844012.30684.qm@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I just setup a list serve for my community's board of directors.? I have all of the permissions set correctly and only the board are members.? Everyone in community are non-members where their posts are held for approval.
?
My issues is:? When someone on the list responds to a post, their response comes from their personal email address.? If the request originator does not "reply to all", then the list serve is cut out of the loop.
?
My question is:? For members of the list, is there a way for them to respond directly from the list serve?? That way the address that responses come from are always the list serve address and not their personal address.
?
Thanks,

Robert McGuire
Buford, GA 30518


      

From todd.giles at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 23:03:11 2009
From: todd.giles at gmail.com (Todd Giles)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 15:03:11 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator and Admin emails not being sent...
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009040308453507960ef2303f@msapiro>
References: <551da360904021726y6d3d95dh3ba07f5a7acca8b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC18702009040308453507960ef2303f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <551da360904031403p27f11582h3c00f54fddd2d689@mail.gmail.com>

>
> It appears that the problem is that your alias for sandia-owner is
>
> sandia-owner:  "|/home/gileszone/mailman/mail/mailman post sandia"
>
> instead of
>
> sandia-owner:  "|/home/gileszone/mailman/mail/mailman owner sandia"
>
>
> Thus mailman sends the notice to sandia-owner and instead of being
> received as a message to -owner, it is received as a post and
> discarded as being a post from a non-member.
>
> You would probably do well to check all your aliases.


Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.  Finally tracked down my
issue.  My aliases were set up properly, problem was I had a custom rewrite
rule in sendmail going on to forward all emails in the form
user-anytexthere at domain.com to be directed to the address user at domain.com.
 Thus, the emails sent to sandia-owner at domain.com were being forwarded
instead to sandia at domain.com.

I've re-written my rules to only forward emails from actual users on my
domain in that form, and to not do any rewriting of the email address for
other emails.

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction of thought!

-Todd

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Apr  5 09:08:46 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 02:08:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Soft bounces....
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904030930430.16729@barton.hwcn.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904021549070.16729@barton.hwcn.org>	<49D5B557.4050101@shub-internet.org>
	<alpine.LRH.2.00.0904030930430.16729@barton.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <49D858FE.901@shub-internet.org>

on 4/3/09 8:50 AM, Charles Gregory said:

> I use postfix, so the performance of yahoo delivery doesn't really 
> impact other mail, other than the impact of the extra load of retries...

If you're using postfix, then that makes things even simpler -- by 
creating a separate queue for only mail to yahoo.com, you can have 
different queue retry rules.  For example, you could retry them less 
frequently, and hold them for shorter periods of time, or whatever it is 
that the guys at yahoo want you to do.

There's lots of reasons to set up separate queues for large partner domains.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Apr  5 09:10:49 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 02:10:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [-0.5] Re:  Soft bounces....
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904031027250.16729@barton.hwcn.org>
References: <PC1870200904030729060015499da595@msapiro>
	<alpine.LRH.2.00.0904031027250.16729@barton.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <49D85979.7040501@shub-internet.org>

on 4/3/09 9:34 AM, Charles Gregory said:

> Further to this topic, another suggestion from Yahoo would be to use 
> different IP addresses for different classes of mail. Short of running 
> the mail on a separate server, I was thinking I might try running a 
> separate instance of postfix to send mail from a separate IP. But then 
> how would I tell mailman to use *that* instance of postfix?

What do they mean "different classes" of mail?  If you're using postfix, 
it should be easy enough to tell it to use a given IP address when 
transmitting mail to yahoo.com, and use a different address when 
transmitting to anywhere else.

Likewise, if you want to identify different classes of mail and have 
them sent through different IP addresses, that should also be possible 
-- so long as you can identify what is meant by "different classes" of mail.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Apr  5 09:17:07 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 02:17:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New to the List Serve - responding to posts
	issue
In-Reply-To: <844012.30684.qm@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <844012.30684.qm@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49D85AF3.2040108@shub-internet.org>

on 4/3/09 1:29 PM, Robert McGuire said:

> I just setup a list serve for my community's board of directors.  I
> have all of the permissions set correctly and only the board are
> members.  Everyone in community are non-members where their posts are
> held for approval.

Someone is going to say it, so I'll try to be as nice as I can about it. 
  I'm sure you're new to this software, but "ListServ" is actually a 
particular brand of mailing list software, but it's not our brand.

Here in the Mailman community, we don't call them a "list serve".  We 
call them mailing lists.


I hope that by being the first to say this, I can pre-empt anyone else 
from being ... not so understanding.

> My issues is:  When someone on the list responds to a post, their
> response comes from their personal email address.  If the request
> originator does not "reply to all", then the list serve is cut out of
> the loop.
> 
> My question is:  For members of the list, is there a way for them to
> respond directly from the list serve?  That way the address that
> responses come from are always the list serve address and not their
> personal address.

There are ways to force all replies to go back to the mailing list, yes. 
  However, the Mailman developers are pretty strongly opposed to using 
these methods in most cases -- this tends to lead to public exposure of 
messages that were meant to be sent privately, and that can be far, far 
more damaging than the reverse.

I've even seen experienced mail systems administrators with twenty-plus 
years of experience make this mistake.  And accidentally expose 
proprietary details of a product that should not have been publicly 
mentioned, at least not yet.


If you can convince me that you've got a case where this kind of thing 
isn't an issue, I'll be glad to point you to the documentation that 
discusses this subject.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Apr  5 09:19:25 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 02:19:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to receive Zimbra-generated mail
 forwarded by Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20090403185029.B4C5F1E40D2@bag.python.org>
References: <20090403185029.B4C5F1E40D2@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <49D85B7D.50203@shub-internet.org>

on 4/3/09 1:50 PM, Pete Smith said:

> I suspect that this might not be the right list for this question, but I 
> have an odd problem that seems to be Mailman related.
> 
> In a nutshell, the body of an e-mail sent by a Zimbra Webclient through 
> a Mailman list server is unreadable with Eudora 7.1.

In most cases, these sorts of things occur when one side or the other is 
generating a non-standard HTML format, when then gets modified by 
Mailman in a standard manner, and the results are ... unpleasant.

> I have one such set of e-mails, with full headers, available for anyone 
> who is interested in this problem, but I won't clog up the list with it.

Feel free to send me a copy and I'll see if I can figure out what went 
wrong.  If I can't help you, then maybe Mark Sapiro can (since he's the 
lead developer of the 2.1 and 2.2 branches of Mailman).

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Apr  5 11:05:33 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:05:33 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New to the List Serve - responding to
	posts	issue
In-Reply-To: <49D85AF3.2040108@shub-internet.org>
References: <844012.30684.qm@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<49D85AF3.2040108@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <87hc13tqqq.fsf@xemacs.org>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > There are ways to force all replies to go back to the mailing list, yes. 

To expand a bit on what Brad said, there is a general, standard way to
set the address(es) that will be used for a basic reply.  I forget
where in the Mailman interface it is (I wouldn't touch it with a
ten-foot barge pole) but "Reply-To" is the keyword you're looking for.

Before you go searching for it, though, consider that 

(1) The intent of the Reply-To standard is to provide *authors*, not
    mailing lists, with a way to specify *where the author* should be
    contacted (on a paper document with multiple authors, this is
    often identified as the "correspondence address").  As such,
    almost all mail clients treat it as Word from On High.

    In particular, with many mail clients users are forced to type in
    any other address (or get it from their contact list), making
    private replies extremely inconvenient.  But typically private
    replies are more urgent and more sensitive.  A message that was
    intended to be public that goes only to the author is a safer
    failure mode than a private message inadvertently published.

    In your case, at first glance it sounds like it's pretty safe.
    The community members are moderated, so intemperate replies from
    the peanut gallery can be held and you can ask the person if they
    really wanted to send that.  But think about the failure mode: the
    board members are *unmoderated*.  A sharp reply, or an inside
    joke, by one of them *will be automatically passed through*, and
    could easily damage the board's reputation severely (unless
    they're all angels...).

    I've also seen it used as an excuse for posting things that
    shouldn't have been written in the first place.  "I'm really sorry
    if somebody's feelings were hurt, but it's not my fault!  I didn't
    realize that it was going to go to the whole list...."

(2) There is a standard, which Mailman participates in, called
    "List-Post".  A reasonably good mail client will generally offer a
    Reply-to-List command that prefers that address to the author for
    ordinary replies, but falls back to the author otherwise.  If your
    community members use such a client, they'll generally get the
    best of both worlds: a flexible client with convenient ways to
    reply to author, to list, or to all, with a single command that
    works almost all the time.

    Unfortunately I don't know of any for Windows or the Mac offhand
    (I use Unix-style clients on Linux or the Mac), but you might try
    getting people to look at the help for their mail clients.  It
    pays off in the long run with a more smoothly running list.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr  5 17:06:45 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 08:06:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to receive Zimbra-generated
	mailforwarded by Mailman
In-Reply-To: <49D85B7D.50203@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904050806450937bf53f056@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>on 4/3/09 1:50 PM, Pete Smith said:
>
>> I have one such set of e-mails, with full headers, available for anyone 
>> who is interested in this problem, but I won't clog up the list with it.
>
>Feel free to send me a copy and I'll see if I can figure out what went 
>wrong.  If I can't help you, then maybe Mark Sapiro can (since he's the 
>lead developer of the 2.1 and 2.2 branches of Mailman).


As Brad suggests, you are welcome to send the messages to me, and I
will try to help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Mon Apr  6 07:57:34 2009
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (Bill Christensen)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 00:57:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Check_perms reports invalid syntax?
Message-ID: <a06230907c5ff4697676d@[192.168.50.3]>

Hi all,

I'm setting up a new server with Mailman.

After installing I tried
	bin/check_perms -f
and got:
	file "bin/check_perms", line 44
	'''
	   ^
Syntax error: invalid syntax

I'm running Python 2.5.1.   My existing server, running Mailman 
2.1.11/Python 2.3, has the same line and no problems with it.

Any ideas?   Do I need to upgrade or patch Python, and if so which 
2.5 or better version works with Mailman?

thanks

-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  6 15:57:12 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 06:57:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Check_perms reports invalid syntax?
In-Reply-To: <a06230907c5ff4697676d@[192.168.50.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904060657120031711a106b@msapiro>

Bill Christensen wrote:
>
>I'm setting up a new server with Mailman.
>
>After installing I tried
>	bin/check_perms -f
>and got:
>	file "bin/check_perms", line 44
>	'''
>	   ^
>Syntax error: invalid syntax
>
>I'm running Python 2.5.1.   My existing server, running Mailman 
>2.1.11/Python 2.3, has the same line and no problems with it.
>
>Any ideas?   Do I need to upgrade or patch Python, and if so which 
>2.5 or better version works with Mailman?


Python 2.5.1 should be file for Mailman 2.1.11 or 2.1.12. There is
nothing about the statement
----------------------------------------------------
try:
    import paths
except ImportError:
    print '''Could not import paths!

This probably means that you are trying to run check_perms from the
source
directory.  You must run this from the installation directory instead.
'''
    raise
-----------------------------------------------------

That should throw a syntax error with any Python 2.x version. Is
bin/check_perms garbled somehow. Have you tried diffing it with your
existing server version?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cgregory at hwcn.org  Mon Apr  6 17:38:55 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 11:38:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Soft bounces....
In-Reply-To: <49D85979.7040501@shub-internet.org>
References: <PC1870200904030729060015499da595@msapiro>
	<alpine.LRH.2.00.0904031027250.16729@barton.hwcn.org>
	<49D85979.7040501@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904061133360.16729@barton.hwcn.org>

On Sun, 5 Apr 2009, Brad Knowles wrote:
> What do (Yahoo) mean "different classes" of mail?

Personal, Commercial, Listmail. I can see their point. If listmail tries 
to send mail to a 5xx address for a couple of days, that 'lowers the 
reputation' of that IP more than when a personal mail gets a 5xx and the 
human sending it doesn't send any more mail to that address....

Still means that list mail has slowdowns, but personal mail won't....

> If you're using postfix, it should be easy enough to tell it to use a 
> given IP address when transmitting mail to yahoo.com, and use a 
> different address when transmitting to anywhere else.

This is the second postfix capability (the other was 'separate queues') 
that has been referenced that I find interesting. Could you kindly point 
me to a decent manual/doc/faq for either of these? Particularly adjusting 
sending IP according to sender address would be VERY cool....
(Or please reply personally if you think a quick reply would suffice. I 
don't want to clutter the list with OT material).

Thanks!

- Charles

From earle at isolar.DynDNS.ORG  Mon Apr  6 20:19:37 2009
From: earle at isolar.DynDNS.ORG (Greg Earle)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:19:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "no publicly-advertised Mailman mailing lists" error
Message-ID: <49DA47B9.8050709@isolar.DynDNS.ORG>

I'm trying to move an existing Mailman 2.1.9 (with ht://Dig patches 
integrated) from an old machine running RHEL 3 Update 9 onto a newer 
machine running RHEL 5 Update 3.

I've copied everything across that I can find, but when I go to the main 
.../mailman/ list info page on the new machine, I get a page saying

"There currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman mailing lists on 
[new host]."

Obviously on the present host I get all the current lists, delineated.

Oddly, if I go to an individual list page, it works for both the new and 
the old servers.  Even the ht://Dig archives page works for both.  It 
just seems to be the main list info page that isn't working.

Obviously I've overlooked one(?) small thing someplace - what is it?

Thanks in advance,

	- Greg



From barry at list.org  Mon Apr  6 20:29:39 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 14:29:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wiki maintenance
In-Reply-To: <49D4EFC3.6030207@python.org>
References: <14364D62-0475-4220-87E9-46E691799C05@list.org>
	<49D4EFC3.6030207@python.org>
Message-ID: <F7E23624-56F7-44C9-8B1E-6C42650D0A88@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 2, 2009, at 1:02 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>> Please note that our hosting provider will be conducting some  
>> schedule maintenance on our wiki instance.  Thus wiki.list.org will  
>> be unavailable starting at 0900 UTC Saturday April 4, for "a few  
>> hours".
>
> So says the FLUFL, so shall it be.

Just wait to you see "from __future__ import barry_as_FLUFL" littered  
all over the Mailman code :)

Barry

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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  6 20:34:05 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 11:34:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "no publicly-advertised Mailman mailing lists"
	error
In-Reply-To: <49DA47B9.8050709@isolar.DynDNS.ORG>
Message-ID: <PC187020090406113405023476355aaf@msapiro>

Greg Earle wrote:
>
>I've copied everything across that I can find, but when I go to the main 
>.../mailman/ list info page on the new machine, I get a page saying
>
>"There currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman mailing lists on 
>[new host]."
>
>Obviously on the present host I get all the current lists, delineated.
>
>Oddly, if I go to an individual list page, it works for both the new and 
>the old servers.  Even the ht://Dig archives page works for both.  It 
>just seems to be the main list info page that isn't working.
>
>Obviously I've overlooked one(?) small thing someplace - what is it?


The FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From n4zr at contesting.com  Mon Apr  6 20:50:09 2009
From: n4zr at contesting.com (Pete Smith)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:50:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to receive Zimbra-generated mail
 forwardedby Mailman
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BE0F96C@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
References: <20090403185029.B4C5F1E40D2@bag.python.org>
	<366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BE0F96C@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <20090406185744.187C61E40DF@bag.python.org>

Unfortunately, I don't control the installations of Mailman where 
this is happening, and each of those supports a wide variety of 
mailing lists that have many digest subscribers.  Fortunately, one of 
the Mailman developers is on the case, and I hope your message will 
point him in a useful direction.

Pete Smith

At 01:03 PM 4/6/2009, Jim wrote:
>Hi Pete - we just had a similar problem here last week (not with Zimbra,
>but with Entourage). When a newsletter was sent via regular mail, it
>looked
>fine in Entourage. When it was sent through the mailing list, it was
>crap.
>When we compared the source code of each message, we found one tiny
>difference.
>Some extra code was added by Mailman. So what we did to fix it is we
>went into
>[Digest Options] and blanked out the stuff in "Footer added to every
>digest".
>That seemed to do the trick. It eliminated those 3 lines of code that
>Entourage
>had such trouble rendering. It seems to stick them in every message,
>even if you
>have no digest users.
>
>After figuring this out (it took us like a week of experimenting) I was
>able to
>find this in the Mailman archives (I just wasn't searching for the right
>things),
>so others have had this problem too. Try it!
>
>  - jim -


From rasa.isaacson at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 15:07:17 2009
From: rasa.isaacson at gmail.com (Rasa Isaacson)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 08:07:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up the mailing list
Message-ID: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>

Our organization wants to set up a mailing list in a very generic fashion.
We would like to list the board members as approved members using the
generic emails we have set up:
president at ourwebsite.org
vicepresident at outwebsite.org
etc...

We have a forwarder set up through our website (hosted by Lunarpages--don't
know if that matters) that associates the generic email address to the
personal email account for the board member, so if a email sent to
president at ourwebsite.org is received it's forwarded to the appropriate
personal account.

Is there something analogous in mailman to associate a personal email
account with the generic account on incoming posts to the board? Like an
alias, but looking at the "From:" field and translating it to the generic
account like president at ourwebsite.org.

I hope this makes sense. Thanks.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr  7 07:37:11 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 00:37:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49DAE687.9040909@shub-internet.org>

on 4/5/09 8:07 AM, Rasa Isaacson said:

> Is there something analogous in mailman to associate a personal email
> account with the generic account on incoming posts to the board? Like an
> alias, but looking at the "From:" field and translating it to the generic
> account like president at ourwebsite.org.

Unfortunately, no.  The best you could do would be to have the senders 
configure their mail programs so that when they send official messages, 
they can choose to send them from their official account.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr  7 07:48:30 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 00:48:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Soft bounces....
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904061133360.16729@barton.hwcn.org>
References: <PC1870200904030729060015499da595@msapiro>	<alpine.LRH.2.00.0904031027250.16729@barton.hwcn.org>	<49D85979.7040501@shub-internet.org>
	<alpine.LRH.2.00.0904061133360.16729@barton.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <49DAE92E.5020602@shub-internet.org>

on 4/6/09 10:38 AM, Charles Gregory said:

> Personal, Commercial, Listmail. I can see their point. If listmail tries 
> to send mail to a 5xx address for a couple of days, that 'lowers the 
> reputation' of that IP more than when a personal mail gets a 5xx and the 
> human sending it doesn't send any more mail to that address....

How do you know what is personal and what is commercial?  I assume you 
can detect what is listmail by looking at the message or certain other 
factors....

> This is the second postfix capability (the other was 'separate queues') 
> that has been referenced that I find interesting. Could you kindly point 
> me to a decent manual/doc/faq for either of these? Particularly 
> adjusting sending IP according to sender address would be VERY cool....
> (Or please reply personally if you think a quick reply would suffice. I 
> don't want to clutter the list with OT material).

Basically, you're looking to set up special postfix transport maps.  A 
couple of examples are discussed at 
<http://www.postfix.org/QSHAPE_README.html>, but I'm sure the 
documentation, the FAQ, and the archives of the postfix-users mailing 
list would have a lot more examples that might be more useful to you.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From beta at admilon.net  Tue Apr  7 07:31:16 2009
From: beta at admilon.net (Matthias Schmidt)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 14:31:16 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Compile on Mac Leopard - config settings?
Message-ID: <20090407053116.1616862506@mail.admilon.net>

Hello All,

I just subscribed after fiddeling around for a day with mailman on
Leopard (Mac OS 10.5.6 Server on a G4 PPC dual).

After looking a bit on mailman, I just decided to download the last
version and try to install it.
That looked actually good, but the startup daemon plist doesn't like the
new mailman meal I just cooked.

I was running configure like this:
sudo ./configure --prefix=/usr/share/mailman --with-username=_mailman --
with-groupname=_mailman --with-mail-gid=_mailman --with-cgi-gid=_www --
with-cgi-ext=.cgi

and with with-mail-gid=_postfix

in both cases I get these errors:

Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:   File "/usr/share/
mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 548, in <module>
Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:     main()
Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:   File "/usr/share/
mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 430, in main
Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:     kids =
start_all_runners()
Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:   File "/usr/share/
mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 268, in start_all_runners
Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:     pid =
start_runner(qrname, slice, count)
Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:   File "/usr/share/
mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 246, in start_runner
Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:     pid = os.fork()
Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]: OSError: [Errno 35]
Resource temporarily unavailable
Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]: Starting Mailman's
master qrunner.
Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl):
Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds
Apr  7 12:03:44 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31394]: Starting Mailman's
master qrunner.
Apr  7 12:03:44 mymac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[31394]):
Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 31395 PPID 1 Python
Apr  7 12:03:44 mymac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl):
Throttling respawn: Will start in 10 seconds

so obviously I'm missing something....

also what I'm a bit confused, I find 2 data folders:
one in the mailman folder: /usr/share/mailman
and another one in the var folder: /var/mailman

what's the difference?


thanks and all the best,
Matthias


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Apr  7 09:49:20 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 16:49:20 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  setting up the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87y6ucsy2n.fsf@xemacs.org>

Rasa Isaacson writes:

 > Is there something analogous in mailman to associate a personal email
 > account with the generic account on incoming posts to the board? Like an
 > alias, but looking at the "From:" field and translating it to the generic
 > account like president at ourwebsite.org.

This could be done in a custom Handler.  I haven't worked on such a
thing in a long while, but somebody who's familiar with the email
package could probably work a simple one up in less than an hour.
Loop over the from addresses, and in that loop, loop over a dictionary
like

officer_map = { "joe at home.example.com" : "president at ourwebsite.org",
                "fred at flintstones.org" : "vice-president at ourwebsite.org" }

substituting the value for the text that matches the key.  The key can
be a regular expression, too.

Then insert that Handler into either the global pipeline (if you want
it to happen for all lists) or the list-specific pipelines for the
lists where it should happen using bin/withlist.  (Don't worry if you
don't understand any of that; anybody who can do the work will know
what I'm talking about, it's not rocket science.)

Making this customizable from the web interface would be harder, maybe
taking two to three times as much time (just because of a fair number
of fussy details).


From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Tue Apr  7 13:46:39 2009
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 13:46:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Compile on Mac Leopard - config settings?
In-Reply-To: <20090407053116.1616862506@mail.admilon.net>
References: <20090407053116.1616862506@mail.admilon.net>
Message-ID: <3046B2197913BAC2CFB9D0B8@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

Hi,

--On 7. April 2009 14:31:16 +0900 Matthias Schmidt <beta at admilon.net> wrote:

> I just subscribed after fiddeling around for a day with mailman on
> Leopard (Mac OS 10.5.6 Server on a G4 PPC dual).
>
> After looking a bit on mailman, I just decided to download the last
> version and try to install it.
> That looked actually good, but the startup daemon plist doesn't like the
> new mailman meal I just cooked.

IMO it's not a good idea to try to overwrite a vendor-supplied software 
installation with a self-compiled one, unless you *really* know what you're 
doing. Either you stick with the vendor version, or you install yours 
separately, in a completely different path. Of course the latter means more 
work (migrate the lists, create your own startup solution etc.), but your 
approach is bound to break. If Apple decides to upgrade Mailman once they 
release 10.5.7, major breakage could ensue.

Why don't you just stick with Apple's version?
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
                 .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:.
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
                   .:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.
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From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Tue Apr  7 16:42:06 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:42:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49DB663E.7020103@riverviewtech.net>

On 04/05/09 08:07, Rasa Isaacson wrote:
> Our organization wants to set up a mailing list in a very generic 
> fashion.  We would like to list the board members as approved members 
> using the generic emails we have set up:

So you are wanting to use ""positional addresses, not personal addresses 
(with names).  That in and of its self should be fine.

> We have a forwarder set up through our website (hosted by 
> Lunarpages--don't know if that matters) that associates the generic 
> email address to the personal email account for the board member, so 
> if a email sent to president at ourwebsite.org is received it's 
> forwarded to the appropriate personal account.

*nod* ... One possible implementation of a typical configuration.

> Is there something analogous in mailman to associate a personal email 
> account with the generic account on incoming posts to the board? Like 
> an alias, but looking at the "From:" field and translating it to the 
> generic account like president at ourwebsite.org.

It sounds to me like you are wanting to translate the From: address of 
messages as they pass through the email system in to Mailman.  I.e. 
translate from:

    barack.obama at whitehouse.gov

To:

    president at whitehouse.gov

(For the sake of conversation I'm presuming that this is indeed what you 
are wanting.)

I don't think that Mailman its self has (or should have) the ability to 
do what you are wanting.

That being said I don't see any reason that you could not put a shim / 
wrapper script in between your mail server and Mailman.  I know that it 
would be entirely possible to throw together some Perl code running a 
Regular Expression to translate barack.obama to president.  I.e.

    $From =~ m/^To: barack.obama at whitehouse.gov/To: 
president at whitehouse.gov/i;

> I hope this makes sense. Thanks.

I think I understood what you are wanting to do.  Presuming that I did, 
the short answer is that (to the best of my knowledge) Mailman does not 
include support to do what you want to do and probably should not 
either.  I think you will be much better off doing this out side of Mailman.

Now, if you are just wanting your board members to be able to send with 
either their personal addresses -OR- their positional addresses all you 
need to do is add both addresses to the mailing list (and set one to not 
receive email) as well as authorizing them to send.



Grant. . . .

From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Tue Apr  7 16:52:22 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:52:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <87y6ucsy2n.fsf@xemacs.org>
References: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y6ucsy2n.fsf@xemacs.org>
Message-ID: <49DB68A6.5040708@riverviewtech.net>

On 04/07/09 02:49, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> This could be done in a custom Handler.  I haven't worked on such a 
> thing in a long while, but somebody who's familiar with the email 
> package could probably work a simple one up in less than an hour. 
>  Loop over the from addresses, and in that loop, loop over a 
> dictionary like

*nod*

This is along the exact same lines that I was talking about in my 
previous post.

> Then insert that Handler into either the global pipeline (if you want 
> it to happen for all lists) or the list-specific pipelines for the 
> lists where it should happen using bin/withlist.  (Don't worry if you 
> don't understand any of that; anybody who can do the work will know 
> what I'm talking about, it's not rocket science.)

Ok...  Now you are starting to make me think that there are places in 
the Mailman code that will look for custom code (in a separate file that 
is called if it exists?) that can be executed to do things like this. 
Is this the case?

If this is not currently the case, how difficult would it be (and would 
it be worth while) calling a ""stub function in separate files that 
would allow users to run their own custom ""translation code with out 
having to get in to the main Mailman code?



Grant. . . .

From Scott.1Jones at ge.com  Tue Apr  7 17:02:21 2009
From: Scott.1Jones at ge.com (Jones, Scott (GE Money, consultant))
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 11:02:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <49DB663E.7020103@riverviewtech.net>
References: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>
	<49DB663E.7020103@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <A72D33814AF8C34789CF947E425CD81809CF4ED7@ALPMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Grant: 

Your post reminds me of something I'd like to set up. 

As I collect incoming emails and then contact information, demographics
associated with those sending me email, I'd like to have that other
information accessible, not just their email and name. 

What would one use to maintain a contact list, with more than just name
and email address? Is there any sort of Act or Saleforce for linux
platform? I have used SugarCRM, but wonder if there's something more
basic.. Something I could run from GUI or from command line. 

Scott

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue Apr  7 17:10:29 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 16:10:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <49DB663E.7020103@riverviewtech.net>
References: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>
	<49DB663E.7020103@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <20090407151029.GA18880@amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 09:42:06AM -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
> Now, if you are just wanting your board members to be able to send with 
> either their personal addresses -OR- their positional addresses all you 
> need to do is add both addresses to the mailing list (and set one to not 
> receive email) as well as authorizing them to send.

I'm not entirely convinced of the need to add both addresses (personal &
functional/positional) as list-members: I'd be more inclined to add the
address to which you wish to send (the positional, yes?) as
list-members, and add their "real" email address (the personal) as an
authorized-sender.

(or add a wild-card: q.v., http://is.gd/rdxK, &c.)

It is, -- or rather, "it ought to be" -- moderately easy to automate the
process of keeping the authorized_senders list up-to date (with a bit of
scripting foo, and command-line/cron access); or if it's not one of
those things that changes often, to keep as a manual process.

-- 
``What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter as if he were a man, but if
  he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?''
  (Richard Feynman)

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  7 17:18:57 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:18:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Compile on Mac Leopard - config settings?
In-Reply-To: <20090407053116.1616862506@mail.admilon.net>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904070818570921663cdcd2@msapiro>

Matthias Schmidt wrote:
>
>I just subscribed after fiddeling around for a day with mailman on
>Leopard (Mac OS 10.5.6 Server on a G4 PPC dual).


And it's probably a good idea to look at the FAQ and list archives
before posting :)


>After looking a bit on mailman, I just decided to download the last
>version and try to install it.
>That looked actually good, but the startup daemon plist doesn't like the
>new mailman meal I just cooked.
>
>I was running configure like this:
>sudo ./configure --prefix=/usr/share/mailman --with-username=_mailman --
>with-groupname=_mailman --with-mail-gid=_mailman --with-cgi-gid=_www --
>with-cgi-ext=.cgi
>
>and with with-mail-gid=_postfix
>
>in both cases I get these errors:
>
>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:   File "/usr/share/
>mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 548, in <module>
>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:     main()
>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:   File "/usr/share/
>mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 430, in main
>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:     kids =
>start_all_runners()
>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:   File "/usr/share/
>mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 268, in start_all_runners
>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:     pid =
>start_runner(qrname, slice, count)
>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:   File "/usr/share/
>mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 246, in start_runner
>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:     pid = os.fork()
>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]: OSError: [Errno 35]
>Resource temporarily unavailable
>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]: Starting Mailman's
>master qrunner.
>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl):
>Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds
>Apr  7 12:03:44 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31394]: Starting Mailman's
>master qrunner.
>Apr  7 12:03:44 mymac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[31394]):
>Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 31395 PPID 1 Python
>Apr  7 12:03:44 mymac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl):
>Throttling respawn: Will start in 10 seconds
>
>so obviously I'm missing something....


See thae FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/O4A9> and posts linked
therefrom which may help.


>also what I'm a bit confused, I find 2 data folders:
>one in the mailman folder: /usr/share/mailman
>and another one in the var folder: /var/mailman
>
>what's the difference?


/usr/share/mailman is from your configure and make install. anything
else is from Apple's pre installed Mailman. As Sebastian suggests,
there are probably conflicts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  7 17:34:34 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:34:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <49DB68A6.5040708@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904070834340968da5ac2aa@msapiro>

Grant Taylor wrote:
>
>Ok...  Now you are starting to make me think that there are places in 
>the Mailman code that will look for custom code (in a separate file that 
>is called if it exists?) that can be executed to do things like this. 
>Is this the case?


Yes. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> on implementation of
custom handlers.

This FAQ also makes brief reference to the extend.py mechanism. If the
lists/LISTNAME/ directory contains an extend.py module that defines an
extend() function, this function is called with the list as argument
whenever a list is instantiated.

See the end of the definition of the MailList.__init__() method in
Mailman/MailList.py for more on this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Tue Apr  7 17:35:45 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 10:35:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <20090407151029.GA18880@amyl.org.uk>
References: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>	<49DB663E.7020103@riverviewtech.net>
	<20090407151029.GA18880@amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <49DB72D1.9070604@riverviewtech.net>

On 04/07/09 10:10, Adam McGreggor wrote:
> I'm not entirely convinced of the need to add both addresses 
> (personal & functional/positional) as list-members: I'd be more 
> inclined to add the address to which you wish to send (the 
> positional, yes?) as list-members, and add their "real" email address 
> (the personal) as an authorized-sender.

Ok.  I'll give you that.

I guess I started doing what I suggested as an end user / subscriber to 
other Mailman mailing lists because I wanted messages to be delivered to 
one address (for sorting reasons) while accepting my posts from my main 
address.  (In fact I'm doing this for the Mailman mailing list.)

I suppose I could have contacted the list administrator and asked them 
to add me as an "authorized-sender", but I could do what I did by my 
self with out requesting out side assistance.



Grant. . . .

From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Tue Apr  7 17:42:25 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 10:42:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <A72D33814AF8C34789CF947E425CD81809CF4ED7@ALPMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
References: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>	<49DB663E.7020103@riverviewtech.net>
	<A72D33814AF8C34789CF947E425CD81809CF4ED7@ALPMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <49DB7461.6020505@riverviewtech.net>

On 04/07/09 10:02, Jones, Scott (GE Money, consultant) wrote:
> As I collect incoming emails and then contact information, 
> demographics associated with those sending me email, I'd like to have 
> that other information accessible, not just their email and name.

Ok...

> What would one use to maintain a contact list, with more than just 
> name and email address? Is there any sort of Act or Saleforce for 
> linux platform? I have used SugarCRM, but wonder if there's something 
> more basic.. Something I could run from GUI or from command line.

I don't know of any packages like Act or Saleforce (though I'm sure that 
something exists).  I tend to use Thunderbird's address book (and Sync 
Kolab) to have this type of information on multiple Linux and Windows 
systems.

However this is out side the scope of Mailman and as such Mailman will 
likely never store much more than it is.



Grant. . . .

From skip at pobox.com  Wed Apr  8 06:49:14 2009
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Tue,  7 Apr 2009 23:49:14 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20090408044914.58A10FC30FD@montanaro.dyndns.org>


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Apr  8 07:01:46 2009
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed,  8 Apr 2009 00:01:46 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman+SpamBayes for Mailman 2.2
Message-ID: <20090408050146.CA7F3FC313F@montanaro.dyndns.org>

Sorry about the rather broad distribution.  A few people have inquired
recently about this code.

I *think* I successfully migrated my cron/gate_news changes to the mailman
2.2 branch.  The modified mailman2.2 branch is available here:

    bzr+ssh://smontanaro at bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Esmontanaro/mailman/SpamBayes/

(I have no idea how these strange URLs work.  You'll probably need to snip
out the "smontanaro@" bit.  What you might replace it with I have no clue or
if the protocol needs to be changed.)

The cron/gate_news file has been changed to run incoming Usenet messages
through the SpamBayes classifier.  There is also a spambayes.ini file to use
as a template.  This simple change worked wonders on the
python-list at python.org mailing list.  I still see complaints about spam from
time-to-time.  I think, "what spam?".  When I investigate I always find it's
a user on the Usenet side of the bridge who is complaining.

There is still absolutely no training support.  You will have to wrangle
that somehow else.  Either the mboxtrain or tte scripts which come with the
SpamBayes distribution should do the trick if you have some collected ham
and spam.  If you need some help, contact me offline or send email to
spambayes at python.org.

Cheers,

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com - http://www.smontanaro.net/
        "XML sucks, dictionaries rock" - Dave Beazley

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Apr  8 07:45:49 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 14:45:49 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <49DB7461.6020505@riverviewtech.net>
References: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>
	<49DB663E.7020103@riverviewtech.net>
	<A72D33814AF8C34789CF947E425CD81809CF4ED7@ALPMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<49DB7461.6020505@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <87ws9vhf5e.fsf@xemacs.org>

Grant Taylor writes:

 > > What would one use to maintain a contact list, with more than just 
 > > name and email address?

 > However this is out side the scope of Mailman and as such Mailman will 
 > likely never store much more than it is.

Mailman itself will not, but one goal of MM3 is to provide a standard
connector architecture for backend databases which supply at least a
name and email address but probably do a lot more than that.

People who are interested in this feature should look at the MM3 stuff
on the wiki and the MM3 code and documentation, then ask Barry what
his plans are.  It should not be hard to add further elements to
web-based forms (for one example) that feed names and addresses to
such a connector.  Then Mailman itself would ignore that additional
information (absent local extensions), merely providing a single
communication channel for list managers to access the backend
database.  Most of the effort would no doubt go to providing sane
error messages in the case where the backend's schema doesn't support
the additional fields, and stuff like that.


From barry at list.org  Wed Apr  8 13:29:36 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 07:29:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <87ws9vhf5e.fsf@xemacs.org>
References: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>
	<49DB663E.7020103@riverviewtech.net>
	<A72D33814AF8C34789CF947E425CD81809CF4ED7@ALPMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<49DB7461.6020505@riverviewtech.net> <87ws9vhf5e.fsf@xemacs.org>
Message-ID: <99F78E90-08A4-4832-808F-50AE320908F6@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 8, 2009, at 1:45 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> Mailman itself will not, but one goal of MM3 is to provide a standard
> connector architecture for backend databases which supply at least a
> name and email address but probably do a lot more than that.

> People who are interested in this feature should look at the MM3 stuff
> on the wiki and the MM3 code and documentation, then ask Barry what
> his plans are.  It should not be hard to add further elements to
> web-based forms (for one example) that feed names and addresses to
> such a connector.  Then Mailman itself would ignore that additional
> information (absent local extensions), merely providing a single
> communication channel for list managers to access the backend
> database.  Most of the effort would no doubt go to providing sane
> error messages in the case where the backend's schema doesn't support
> the additional fields, and stuff like that.

Stephen's basically correct.  In Mailman 3, the core engine operates  
on components, essentially objects that implement a formal interface.   
There are three "stores" of data, user data, list data and message  
data, with loose connections between them (think: no foreign keys).   
Thus you could, in theory anyway <wink>, store the user data including  
subscription information in your CMS, and let Mailman handle list- 
specific data.  Of course, you could re-implement the backends to  
provide the defined interfaces anyway you wanted and then Mailman  
should operate without regard to where the data lives.

I won't go into more detail here.  If you're interested in  
participating more in the development of Mailman 3, please join us  
over in mailman-developers at python.org.

Barry

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From barry at list.org  Wed Apr  8 13:55:35 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 07:55:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Pydotorg] Mailman+SpamBayes for Mailman 2.2
In-Reply-To: <20090408050146.CA7F3FC313F@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <20090408050146.CA7F3FC313F@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <031A95DC-BC5E-4C21-8E82-97A7703AD448@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 8, 2009, at 1:01 AM, skip at pobox.com wrote:

> Sorry about the rather broad distribution.  A few people have inquired
> recently about this code.
>
> I *think* I successfully migrated my cron/gate_news changes to the  
> mailman
> 2.2 branch.  The modified mailman2.2 branch is available here:
>
>    bzr+ssh://smontanaro at bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Esmontanaro/mailman/ 
> SpamBayes/

Probably better to use:

lp:~smontanaro/mailman/SpamBayes

and let bzr figure the rest out.

> (I have no idea how these strange URLs work.  You'll probably need  
> to snip
> out the "smontanaro@" bit.  What you might replace it with I have no  
> clue or
> if the protocol needs to be changed.)
>
> The cron/gate_news file has been changed to run incoming Usenet  
> messages
> through the SpamBayes classifier.  There is also a spambayes.ini  
> file to use
> as a template.  This simple change worked wonders on the
> python-list at python.org mailing list.  I still see complaints about  
> spam from
> time-to-time.  I think, "what spam?".  When I investigate I always  
> find it's
> a user on the Usenet side of the bridge who is complaining.
>
> There is still absolutely no training support.  You will have to  
> wrangle
> that somehow else.  Either the mboxtrain or tte scripts which come  
> with the
> SpamBayes distribution should do the trick if you have some  
> collected ham
> and spam.  If you need some help, contact me offline or send email to
> spambayes at python.org.

This is very cool, thanks Skip.  Let's try to coordinate to finish the  
port to Mailman 3.

Barry

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From kjohnson at pcc.edu  Wed Apr  8 22:51:21 2009
From: kjohnson at pcc.edu (Kirke Johnson)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:51:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-delivery notfications
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904071123380421927bef8b@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009040710421403757fc51685@msapiro>
	<PC1870200904071123380421927bef8b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200904082051.n38Kpofd022216@mailout.pcc.edu>

Thanks, Mark - all this works just fine. I have all the lists cleaned 
up and the remaining migrations should have one less problem!

I made an incorrect statement in my original message: I have been 
using config_list all along to add the owners, not newlist. It had 
been a while since I last looked at that detail. The critical bit 
that I got from your response was needing single quotes on either 
side of the commas separating the list owner addresses.

At 11:23 AM 4/7/2009, you wrote:
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >
> >Or, perhaps you could do something like
> >
> >#!/bin/sh
> >file=mktemp
> >for list in `~mailman/bin/list_lists --bare`; do
> >  ~mailman/bin/config_list -o - $list | \
> >    grep "^owner " | \
> >    sed -r "s/([^']),/\1', '/g" > $file
> >  ~mailman/bin/config_list -i $file
>
>
>The above line should be
>
>   ~mailman/bin/config_list -i $file $list
>
>
> >done
> >rm $mktemp
>
>
>And the above should be
>
>rm $file
>
>(the actual grep and sed was tested, but the entire script obviously
>wasn't)
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kirke Johnson                               Internet: kjohnson at pcc.edu
Email Administrator, TSS , Sylvania Campus      http://www.pcc.edu/
Portland Community College, Portland, OR, USA     (503) 977-4368 


From edward.harvey at lyricsemiconductor.com  Thu Apr  9 18:48:33 2009
From: edward.harvey at lyricsemiconductor.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 12:48:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] System Utilization (top)
Message-ID: <C6039F21.2FD55%edward.harvey@lyricsemiconductor.com>

For sometimes long periods of time, it seems, ten or twelve httpd?s and
python?s stay at the top of top, almost totally crippling the system.

Is this normal?  Should I reconfigure something?

Thank you...

From edward.harvey at lyricsemiconductor.com  Thu Apr  9 19:20:53 2009
From: edward.harvey at lyricsemiconductor.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:20:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing reply_goes_to_list
Message-ID: <C603A6B5.2FD66%edward.harvey@lyricsemiconductor.com>

Accidentally, I had DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 1 when I wanted it to be 0.
Unfortunately, a whole bunch of lists have already been created with 1 ...
So before I do the following, I want to run it by here ? to make sure I?m
not going to screw something up.

For that matter, maybe there?s a simpler way to do this?

Run this as root:

#!/bin/bash
export PATH=$PATH:/usr/lib/mailman/bin
for list in `list_lists -b` ; do
    echo "Converting ${list} ..."
    config_list -o ${list}-config.txt $list
    cat ${list}-config.txt | sed ?s/reply_goes_to_list =
1/reply_goes_to_list = 0/? > ${list}-config2.txt
    config_list -i ${list}-config2.txt $list
done


From eharvey at lyricsemi.com  Thu Apr  9 19:26:52 2009
From: eharvey at lyricsemi.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:26:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] System Utilization (top)
Message-ID: <C603A81C.2FD6B%eharvey@lyricsemi.com>

For sometimes long periods of time, it seems, ten or twelve httpd?s and
python?s stay at the top of top, almost totally crippling the system.

Is this normal?  Should I reconfigure something?

Thank you...


From eharvey at lyricsemi.com  Thu Apr  9 19:27:05 2009
From: eharvey at lyricsemi.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:27:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing reply_goes_to_list
Message-ID: <C603A829.2FD6C%eharvey@lyricsemi.com>

Accidentally, I had DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 1 when I wanted it to be 0.
Unfortunately, a whole bunch of lists have already been created with 1 ...
So before I do the following, I want to run it by here ? to make sure I?m
not going to screw something up.

For that matter, maybe there?s a simpler way to do this?

Run this as root:

#!/bin/bash
export PATH=$PATH:/usr/lib/mailman/bin
for list in `list_lists -b` ; do
    echo "Converting ${list} ..."
    config_list -o ${list}-config.txt $list
    cat ${list}-config.txt | sed ?s/reply_goes_to_list =
1/reply_goes_to_list = 0/? > ${list}-config2.txt
    config_list -i ${list}-config2.txt $list
done



From eharvey at lyricsemi.com  Thu Apr  9 19:28:20 2009
From: eharvey at lyricsemi.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:28:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] System Utilization (top)
Message-ID: <C603A874.2FD72%eharvey@lyricsemi.com>

For sometimes long periods of time, it seems, ten or twelve httpd?s and
python?s stay at the top of top, almost totally crippling the system.

Is this normal?  Should I reconfigure something?

Thank you...


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr  9 19:46:21 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 10:46:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing reply_goes_to_list
In-Reply-To: <C603A829.2FD6C%eharvey@lyricsemi.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009040910462101718d59ee80@msapiro>

Edward Ned Harvey wrote:

>Accidentally, I had DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 1 when I wanted it to be 0.
>Unfortunately, a whole bunch of lists have already been created with 1 ...
>So before I do the following, I want to run it by here ? to make sure I?m
>not going to screw something up.
>
>For that matter, maybe there?s a simpler way to do this?
>
>Run this as root:
>
>#!/bin/bash
>export PATH=$PATH:/usr/lib/mailman/bin
>for list in `list_lists -b` ; do
>    echo "Converting ${list} ..."
>    config_list -o ${list}-config.txt $list
>    cat ${list}-config.txt | sed 's/reply_goes_to_list =1/reply_goes_to_list = 0/' > ${list}-config2.txt
>    config_list -i ${list}-config2.txt $list
>done


Yes, there is a much simpler way to to this. Not that the above won't
work; it's just not necessary because config_list -i only changes
those things which are in it's input, so all you need is:

#!/bin/bash
export PATH=$PATH:/usr/lib/mailman/bin
file=`mktemp`
echo reply_goes_to_list = 0 > $file
for list in `list_lists -b` ; do
    echo "Converting ${list} ..."
    config_list -i $file $list
done
rm $file

There is a FAQ on this at <http://wiki.list.org/x/MIBp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr  9 19:52:06 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 10:52:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] System Utilization (top)
In-Reply-To: <C603A874.2FD72%eharvey@lyricsemi.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904091052060453b27b45cb@msapiro>

Edward Ned Harvey wrote:

>For sometimes long periods of time, it seems, ten or twelve httpd's and
>python's stay at the top of top, almost totally crippling the system.
>
>Is this normal?  Should I reconfigure something?


Check your web server logs to see what http requests are being
processed at this time

possibly, some list admin is screen scraping the list admin interface
of multiple lists to build a membership list. It really could be
anything, but since httpd is involved, the first step is to see what
it's trying to do.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From eharvey at lyricsemi.com  Thu Apr  9 20:32:05 2009
From: eharvey at lyricsemi.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 14:32:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] System Utilization (top)
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904091052060453b27b45cb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C603B765.2FD8C%eharvey@lyricsemi.com>

> Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
> 
>> For sometimes long periods of time, it seems, ten or twelve httpd's and
>> python's stay at the top of top, almost totally crippling the system.
>> 
>> Is this normal?  Should I reconfigure something?
> 
> 
> Check your web server logs to see what http requests are being
> processed at this time
> 
> possibly, some list admin is screen scraping the list admin interface
> of multiple lists to build a membership list. It really could be
> anything, but since httpd is involved, the first step is to see what
> it's trying to do.

Got it.  Never in a million years did I think it was actually busy DOING
something processing http requests.

It's the search appliance crawling all the mail archives.

Thanks, ttyl...



From beta at admilon.net  Wed Apr  8 12:03:33 2009
From: beta at admilon.net (Matthias Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 19:03:33 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Compile on Mac Leopard - config settings?
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904070818570921663cdcd2@msapiro>
References: <20090407053116.1616862506@mail.admilon.net>
	<PC1870200904070818570921663cdcd2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090408100333.1180691750@mail.admilon.net>

Mark,

thanks for your suggestions.

Am/On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:18:57 -0700 schrieb/wrote Mark Sapiro:

>Matthias Schmidt wrote:
>>
>>I just subscribed after fiddeling around for a day with mailman on
>>Leopard (Mac OS 10.5.6 Server on a G4 PPC dual).
>
>
>And it's probably a good idea to look at the FAQ and list archives
>before posting :)

I did so, but somehow the most important information found here:
<http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030530>
slipped through my attention.
imho it would be a good idea to included that information from above in
the documentation which comes with the download package.

Anyway I found and read the mails from Larry Stone, but there was
nothing in it, I didn't know already.


>
>
>>After looking a bit on mailman, I just decided to download the last
>>version and try to install it.
>>That looked actually good, but the startup daemon plist doesn't like the
>>new mailman meal I just cooked.
>>
>>I was running configure like this:
>>sudo ./configure --prefix=/usr/share/mailman --with-username=_mailman --
>>with-groupname=_mailman --with-mail-gid=_mailman --with-cgi-gid=_www --
>>with-cgi-ext=.cgi
>>
>>and with with-mail-gid=_postfix
>>
>>in both cases I get these errors:
>>
>>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:   File "/usr/share/
>>mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 548, in <module>
>>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:     main()
>>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:   File "/usr/share/
>>mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 430, in main
>>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:     kids =
>>start_all_runners()
>>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:   File "/usr/share/
>>mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 268, in start_all_runners
>>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:     pid =
>>start_runner(qrname, slice, count)
>>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:   File "/usr/share/
>>mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 246, in start_runner
>>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]:     pid = os.fork()
>>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]: OSError: [Errno 35]
>>Resource temporarily unavailable
>>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31389]: Starting Mailman's
>>master qrunner.
>>Apr  7 12:03:35 mymac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl):
>>Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds
>>Apr  7 12:03:44 mymac org.list.mailmanctl[31394]: Starting Mailman's
>>master qrunner.
>>Apr  7 12:03:44 mymac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[31394]):
>>Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 31395 PPID 1 Python
>>Apr  7 12:03:44 mymac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl):
>>Throttling respawn: Will start in 10 seconds
>>
>>so obviously I'm missing something....
>
>
>See thae FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/O4A9> and posts linked
>therefrom which may help.

I was aware that Apple changed those pathes, therefore I changed them in
my configure as well.
But I was not aware, that Apple used its own binary package - they do so
with postfix as well, which I found out the hard way ;-)

The whole interface Apple provides for administrating mailman is not
only minimalistic, but useless if one wants to do a bit more.
Apple's GUI makes simple things more simple, but a bit more complicated
things even more complicated.



>>also what I'm a bit confused, I find 2 data folders:
>>one in the mailman folder: /usr/share/mailman
>>and another one in the var folder: /var/mailman
>>
>>what's the difference?
>
>
>/usr/share/mailman is from your configure and make install. anything
>else is from Apple's pre installed Mailman. As Sebastian suggests,
>there are probably conflicts.

and that was actually my question.
/usr/share/mailman is the place Apple thinks mailman has to go to and I
just wanted to "to rip out everything they've got and install your own
copy from the official Mailman source", so my question was, what else do
I have to set to do so.

I was also asking myself, what the other directory in /var/ does and how
do I set the path for it correctly in the configure. 

On the end I will either keep the version installed by Apple or install
everything in a separate directory, so that I keep control over things.
This exercise I did mainly to understand better, what's going on with
mailman, because I never used it before (but LetterRip in the old days ;-)

cheers,
Matthias

p.s. try a google search on Leopard and mailman ... every list message
about Leopard is going to pop up :-D


From brendonl at ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  9 22:17:23 2009
From: brendonl at ISI.EDU (Brendon Lloyd)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:17:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange admindb GUI issue.
Message-ID: <49DE57D3.8060601@isi.edu>

Hi Folks,

I was wondering if anyone has come across this problem:

I recently migrated mailman from version 2.1.7 to 2.1.12, and most of 
the admindb GUI appears to work, however, when I attempt to accept held 
messages, nothing happens after I click on "Submit All Data". I just see 
the same form, with no error message or notice that the message has been 
accepted.

I've run the check_perms script and fixed any permissions issues.

I've also used: "./withlist -l -r fix_url $list -u $newdomain" to switch 
the domain of the old lists to the new one, and I've run "make install" 
with the older data, lists, and archives files in place, and that 
appeared to make some changes to the older dirs to be compatible with 
2.1.12.

I've checked my /usr/local/mailman/logs/error logs and see nothing. I've 
also checked my apache error logs and my system logs.

In the absence of a quick fix for this problem, can anyone point out a 
good way to set mailman to a greater level of debugging, so that I can 
gather more clues as to why this won't work?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

- Brendon

From danil.smirnov at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 10:34:08 2009
From: danil.smirnov at gmail.com (Danil Smirnov)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:34:08 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to discard bounced messages?
Message-ID: <595eff690904080134s40a1547dyda6414b16f19fc4f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all!

I have more that 40 thousand spam messages bounced on my mailman list.
Can't discard them thru the web interface...

I googled and searched this list archive and found a solution:

cd /usr/lib/mailman/bin
./discard data/heldmsg*

But I've got "Ignoring non-held message: data/heldmsg*"
all the time...

Please help!

Version of the Mailman is 2.8.1...

Danil

From javid at isns.org  Thu Apr  9 21:02:58 2009
From: javid at isns.org (Abdul Javid)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 12:02:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to send moderator email approval
Message-ID: <195345.8609.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hi
?
Is there a setting to let list?moderators a notification that a pending request is approved/rejected.
?
If there are 3 email ids in moderators, if one approves, i would like other 2 to know that the email has been taken care.
?
please advise
thanks
Javid


      

From jnichols at pbp.net  Wed Apr  8 23:10:46 2009
From: jnichols at pbp.net (Jonathan Nichols)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:10:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman with mysql/maildrop
Message-ID: <748A7463-D6D1-4066-AF37-41DE5D4D96DB@pbp.net>

Greetings!
	I must preface this by noting that I have in fact Googled for this  
but have not found any solutions that work. I have an Ubuntu box  
(Hardy) and have a mysql/postfix setup as documented in the Flurdy  
howto found at http://flurdy.com/docs/postfix/ ... but I also have  
maildrop in the mix. It seems to work ok, except with mailman. I added  
mailman last night and now I'm getting the following error when I try  
to send to list addresses.

status=bounced (user unknown. Command output: ERR: authdaemon:  
s_connect() failed: Permission denied Invalid user specified. )

Now, I realize what the error is telling me. It's having problems  
finding the user. I have the users in a mysql db, and the structure  
looks like the following:

http://www.pbp.net/~jnichols/images/sql_output.png

Should I put something for the mailman addresses in there as well? I  
can do that, since I don't have that many lists.
If not, is there another way around this? I did try just telling  
postfix to look at another transport map, but maildrop is still  
involved and it's looking at the mysql db.

(otherwise, everything else seems to be working.. it's just this part  
that I'm getting hung up on!)

cheers,
--
jon

From Mario at infokeep.com.br  Wed Apr  8 20:51:30 2009
From: Mario at infokeep.com.br (Infokeep - Mario Sergio)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 15:51:30 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] flag moderation doesnt work
Message-ID: <D6EDC4B58EAF5C4C8D01EC8D58536040409313@keepex.intranet.infokeep>

Hi list,

 

I have na main list with name (geral at domain.com). Inside of this list, I
have other two lists (finance at domain.com and support at domain.com).

 

All lists has the moderation bit disable. But, When I send an email to
the main list (geral at domain.com), this emails wait the moderator accept
the message. When this is accepted by the moderator, this message wait
the authorization in the other lists (finance at domain.com and
support at domain.com).

 

I put the geral list as member of the finance at domain and support at domain
list, because I think that who sends the email is the main list to my
other lists. And I put the geral list in whitelist of the other two
lists too. But doesn't work, and I need to authorize the message always.

 

Did I make something wrong? Is this configuration possible?

 

Regards.

 

---

MSC

 


From Pieter.Donche at ua.ac.be  Tue Apr  7 15:55:51 2009
From: Pieter.Donche at ua.ac.be (Pieter Donche)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 15:55:51 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating to new server
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904071552150.31411@macos.cmi.ua.ac.be>

An old server is to be replaced with a new one. The old server
(solaris mailman-2.1.7) runs a couple of mailing lists. 
We will keep the same web address and the same e-mail address on 
the new server (FreeBSD7 mailman-2.1.11).

In the old server the mailman software ran under a normal user 
with everything in the home-dir of that user. 
In the new server it needs to be in /usr/local/mailman 
(where FreeBSD installs it)

What steps need to be executed to migrate all the mailings lists (archives
memberslists etc...) from the old to the new server?
I have unix root access to both machines.

Is there a step by step document ?

The B.Warsaw GNU Mailman - Installation Manual lacks a section on
migration ...

From rasa.isaacson at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 20:24:21 2009
From: rasa.isaacson at gmail.com (Rasa Isaacson)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 13:24:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <49DB663E.7020103@riverviewtech.net>
References: <4c17eb9b0904050607o3e35ae9csb5a4c04e8744b409@mail.gmail.com>
	<49DB663E.7020103@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <4c17eb9b0904071124r418abf44xa1153ea6d11aaf0d@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for the thorough and thoughtful response. I really thought as
much, but wanted to check with the experts--you certainly all seem very
knowledgeable and I appreciate your insights.
Rasa

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Grant Taylor <gtaylor at riverviewtech.net>wrote:

> On 04/05/09 08:07, Rasa Isaacson wrote:
>
>> Our organization wants to set up a mailing list in a very generic fashion.
>>  We would like to list the board members as approved members using the
>> generic emails we have set up:
>>
>
> So you are wanting to use ""positional addresses, not personal addresses
> (with names).  That in and of its self should be fine.
>
>  We have a forwarder set up through our website (hosted by
>> Lunarpages--don't know if that matters) that associates the generic email
>> address to the personal email account for the board member, so if a email
>> sent to president at ourwebsite.org is received it's forwarded to the
>> appropriate personal account.
>>
>
> *nod* ... One possible implementation of a typical configuration.
>
>  Is there something analogous in mailman to associate a personal email
>> account with the generic account on incoming posts to the board? Like an
>> alias, but looking at the "From:" field and translating it to the generic
>> account like president at ourwebsite.org.
>>
>
> It sounds to me like you are wanting to translate the From: address of
> messages as they pass through the email system in to Mailman.  I.e.
> translate from:
>
>   barack.obama at whitehouse.gov
>
> To:
>
>   president at whitehouse.gov
>
> (For the sake of conversation I'm presuming that this is indeed what you
> are wanting.)
>
> I don't think that Mailman its self has (or should have) the ability to do
> what you are wanting.
>
> That being said I don't see any reason that you could not put a shim /
> wrapper script in between your mail server and Mailman.  I know that it
> would be entirely possible to throw together some Perl code running a
> Regular Expression to translate barack.obama to president.  I.e.
>
>   $From =~ m/^To: barack.obama at whitehouse.gov/To:
> president at whitehouse.gov/i;
>
>  I hope this makes sense. Thanks.
>>
>
> I think I understood what you are wanting to do.  Presuming that I did, the
> short answer is that (to the best of my knowledge) Mailman does not include
> support to do what you want to do and probably should not either.  I think
> you will be much better off doing this out side of Mailman.
>
> Now, if you are just wanting your board members to be able to send with
> either their personal addresses -OR- their positional addresses all you need
> to do is add both addresses to the mailing list (and set one to not receive
> email) as well as authorizing them to send.
>
>
>
> Grant. . . .
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rasa.isaacson%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 10 05:26:38 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:26:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange admindb GUI issue.
In-Reply-To: <49DE57D3.8060601@isi.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904092026380968869d7fee@msapiro>

Brendon Lloyd wrote:
>
>I was wondering if anyone has come across this problem:
>
>I recently migrated mailman from version 2.1.7 to 2.1.12, and most of 
>the admindb GUI appears to work, however, when I attempt to accept held 
>messages, nothing happens after I click on "Submit All Data". I just see 
>the same form, with no error message or notice that the message has been 
>accepted.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ioA9>. Most of what's in that
FAQ is applicable even though you are not being asked to
reauthenticate.


>I've run the check_perms script and fixed any permissions issues.
>
>I've also used: "./withlist -l -r fix_url $list -u $newdomain" to switch 
>the domain of the old lists to the new one, and I've run "make install" 
>with the older data, lists, and archives files in place, and that 
>appeared to make some changes to the older dirs to be compatible with 
>2.1.12.
>
>I've checked my /usr/local/mailman/logs/error logs and see nothing. I've 
>also checked my apache error logs and my system logs.
>
>In the absence of a quick fix for this problem, can anyone point out a 
>good way to set mailman to a greater level of debugging, so that I can 
>gather more clues as to why this won't work?


Mailman has little in the way of debugging level controls. If you get
to the point where you really need to know more than is available in
existing logs, you need to add aditional logging statements at the
source level.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 10 05:45:17 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:45:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to send moderator email approval
In-Reply-To: <195345.8609.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090409204517029624f7e8f9@msapiro>

Abdul Javid wrote:
>?
>Is there a setting to let list?moderators a notification that a pending request is approved/rejected.
>?
>If there are 3 email ids in moderators, if one approves, i would like other 2 to know that the email has been taken care.


I'm sorry.  There is no such notification option within Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 10 05:54:03 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:54:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] flag moderation doesnt work
In-Reply-To: <D6EDC4B58EAF5C4C8D01EC8D58536040409313@keepex.intranet.infokeep>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904092054030625dc0306f4@msapiro>

Infokeep - Mario Sergiowrote:
>
>I have na main list with name (geral at domain.com). Inside of this list, I
>have other two lists (finance at domain.com and support at domain.com).
>
> 
>
>All lists has the moderation bit disable. But, When I send an email to
>the main list (geral at domain.com), this emails wait the moderator accept
>the message. When this is accepted by the moderator, this message wait
>the authorization in the other lists (finance at domain.com and
>support at domain.com).
>
> 
>
>I put the geral list as member of the finance at domain and support at domain
>list, because I think that who sends the email is the main list to my
>other lists. And I put the geral list in whitelist of the other two
>lists too. But doesn't work, and I need to authorize the message always.
>
> 
>
>Did I make something wrong? Is this configuration possible?


Yes, it is possible. What you need beyond what you already have depends
on why the messages are being held on the subordinate lists.

If it is "implicit destination", you need to put geral at domain.com in
Privacy options... -> Recipient filters -> acceptable aliases of the
subordinate lists.

If it is post by non-member, you probably need to make
geral-bounces at domain.com a member of the subordinate lists.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/boA9> for more detail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 10 05:59:07 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:59:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating to new server
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904071552150.31411@macos.cmi.ua.ac.be>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904092059070687930e23f6@msapiro>



----- Original Message ---------------

Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating to new server
   From: Pieter Donche <Pieter.Donche at ua.ac.be>
   Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 15:55:51 +0200 (CEST)
     To: mailman-users at python.org

>An old server is to be replaced with a new one. The old server
>(solaris mailman-2.1.7) runs a couple of mailing lists. 
>We will keep the same web address and the same e-mail address on 
>the new server (FreeBSD7 mailman-2.1.11).
>
>In the old server the mailman software ran under a normal user 
>with everything in the home-dir of that user. 
>In the new server it needs to be in /usr/local/mailman 
>(where FreeBSD installs it)
>
>What steps need to be executed to migrate all the mailings lists (archives
>memberslists etc...) from the old to the new server?
>I have unix root access to both machines.
>
>Is there a step by step document ?


There's information in the FAQ. In your case, all you really need to do
is move the contents of Mailman's lists/* and archives/private/*
directories from the old installation to the new. You may not want to
move the 'mailman' list.

See the posts linked at the very beginning of the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/2oA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 10 06:09:08 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 21:09:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman with mysql/maildrop
In-Reply-To: <748A7463-D6D1-4066-AF37-41DE5D4D96DB@pbp.net>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904092109080046b4461bf6@msapiro>

Jonathan Nichols wrote:

>Greetings!
>	I must preface this by noting that I have in fact Googled for this  
>but have not found any solutions that work. I have an Ubuntu box  
>(Hardy) and have a mysql/postfix setup as documented in the Flurdy  
>howto found at http://flurdy.com/docs/postfix/ ... but I also have  
>maildrop in the mix. It seems to work ok, except with mailman. I added  
>mailman last night and now I'm getting the following error when I try  
>to send to list addresses.
>
>status=bounced (user unknown. Command output: ERR: authdaemon:  
>s_connect() failed: Permission denied Invalid user specified. )
>
>Now, I realize what the error is telling me. It's having problems  
>finding the user. I have the users in a mysql db, and the structure  
>looks like the following:
>
>http://www.pbp.net/~jnichols/images/sql_output.png
>
>Should I put something for the mailman addresses in there as well?


No. I don't think so.


>I  
>can do that, since I don't have that many lists.
>If not, is there another way around this? I did try just telling  
>postfix to look at another transport map, but maildrop is still  
>involved and it's looking at the mysql db.


I'm not sure about the maildrop aspect of it, but I *think* you can
just define mailman's aliases as a hash: in alias_maps. See
<http://mailman.sourceforge.net/mailman-install/node13.html> or
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html> for info on
configuring Mailman/Postfix integration.

Mailman's aliases deliver via a pipe to Mailman's mail wrapper which
queues the messages appropriately for Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Apr 10 06:37:40 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:37:40 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  How to send moderator email approval
In-Reply-To: <195345.8609.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <195345.8609.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <873achgm3v.fsf@xemacs.org>

Abdul Javid writes:

 > Is there a setting to let list?moderators a notification that a
 > pending request is approved/rejected.  ? If there are 3 email ids
 > in moderators, if one approves, i would like other 2 to know that
 > the email has been taken care.  ? please advise thanks Javid

Why do you want this?  If you need an audit trail so that you know who
approved each request, or you'd like moderators to get email
notification so they don't visit the moderation page only to find it
was updated 20 seconds ago, as Mark says, Mailman provides no such
feature.

If you're simply worried about conflicting accesses, then a moderator's
decision is effective as soon as the server receives it.  If somebody
else submits a decision after that because they're looking at the same
list of requests at the same time, it will simply be ignored because
the request is not pending any more.  Because of locking, it's not
possible for two moderators to update the same request simultaneously,
so the request queue is not disturbed by simultaneous update attempts.

The two issues I can imagine are (a) moderators might see an warning
that the request they're acting on has already been processed (but
IIRC that doesn't happen), and (b) Moderator A might prefer to
approve, but Moderator B has already rejected (or vice versa).
There's not much you can do about that, though, if you have multiple
moderators.

From cgregory at hwcn.org  Fri Apr 10 16:13:32 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 10:13:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Disable processing not working?
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904101000230.7499@barton.hwcn.org>


It looks like the 'disable on excessive bounces' is not working right for 
my (only) list 'ontbirds'.... The bounce log contains patterns like this 
(trimmed to show one address behaviour, omitting 'already counted' 
messages):

Apr 05 09:15:34 2009 (20408) ___ at ___: ontbirds current bounce score: 2.0
Apr 06 00:26:23 2009 (20408) ___ at ___: ontbirds current bounce score: 3.0
Apr 06 00:26:23 2009 (20408) sending ontbirds list
          probe to: ___ at ___ (score 3.0 >= 2.5)
Apr 07 07:47:22 2009 (20408) ___ at ___: ontbirds current bounce score: 1.0
Apr 08 10:57:38 2009 (20408) ___ at ___: ontbirds current bounce score: 2.0
Apr 09 08:08:36 2009 (20408) ___ at ___: ontbirds current bounce score: 3.0
Apr 09 08:08:36 2009 (20408) sending ontbirds list
          probe to: ___ at ___ (score 3.0 >= 2.5)
Apr 10 08:57:05 2009 (20408) ___ at ___: ontbirds current bounce score: 1.0

This seems to be happening for ALL permanently bouncing addresses. 
And I see no trace of 'disabled' anywhere in the logs.... Or is there
a different buzzword I should grep for?

mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.6

Yes, the bounce score threshold is 2.5
I have bounce info stale after set to 3 days, and addresses which bounce 
for just a day or so are noted in the logs as 'bounce info discarded', so 
I don't think this is the problem.

Any other info needed to solve this?

- Charles

From terri at zone12.com  Fri Apr 10 17:35:12 2009
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 11:35:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to send moderator email approval
In-Reply-To: <873achgm3v.fsf@xemacs.org>
References: <195345.8609.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<873achgm3v.fsf@xemacs.org>
Message-ID: <49DF6730.7010306@zone12.com>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Abdul Javid writes:
> 
>  > Is there a setting to let list moderators a notification that a
>  > pending request is approved/rejected.    If there are 3 email ids
>  > in moderators, if one approves, i would like other 2 to know that
>  > the email has been taken care.    please advise thanks Javid
> Why do you want this?  If you need an audit trail so that you know who
> approved each request, or you'd like moderators to get email
> notification so they don't visit the moderation page only to find it
> was updated 20 seconds ago, as Mark says, Mailman provides no such
> feature.

We do this so that when each moderator checks her email, she can tell at 
a glance if the pending requests for the day have already been handled 
(well, assuming she's got all those types of emails filtered into one 
folder).  It's actually fairly handy if you're not talking a list where 
there's lots of admins: a quick mail saves another 5 people the trouble 
of checking.

We just do it by asking list admins on the many-admin lists to reply to 
the "X listname moderator request(s) waiting" mails but change the 
-bounces address to -owner.  It's slightly annoying, but not that hard. 
  That might work for the original poster's problem too?

  Terri



From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 10 17:43:16 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 08:43:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Disable processing not working?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904101000230.7499@barton.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <PC18702009041008431602344ef6013a@msapiro>

Charles Gregory wrote:
>
>It looks like the 'disable on excessive bounces' is not working right for 
>my (only) list 'ontbirds'.... The bounce log contains patterns like this 
>(trimmed to show one address behaviour, omitting 'already counted' 
>messages):
>
>Apr 05 09:15:34 2009 (20408) ___ at ___: ontbirds current bounce score: 2.0
>Apr 06 00:26:23 2009 (20408) ___ at ___: ontbirds current bounce score: 3.0
>Apr 06 00:26:23 2009 (20408) sending ontbirds list
>          probe to: ___ at ___ (score 3.0 >= 2.5)
>Apr 07 07:47:22 2009 (20408) ___ at ___: ontbirds current bounce score: 1.0
>Apr 08 10:57:38 2009 (20408) ___ at ___: ontbirds current bounce score: 2.0
>Apr 09 08:08:36 2009 (20408) ___ at ___: ontbirds current bounce score: 3.0
>Apr 09 08:08:36 2009 (20408) sending ontbirds list
>          probe to: ___ at ___ (score 3.0 >= 2.5)
>Apr 10 08:57:05 2009 (20408) ___ at ___: ontbirds current bounce score: 1.0
>
>This seems to be happening for ALL permanently bouncing addresses. 
>And I see no trace of 'disabled' anywhere in the logs.... Or is there
>a different buzzword I should grep for?
>
>mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.6


In 2.1.5, a "VERP probe" feature was introduced. Beginning in 2.1.6 it
it disabled by default, but in 2.1.5 there was no way to turn it off.

What is happening is when the threshold is reached, a special probe is
sent with envelope from <LISTNAME-bounces+TOKEN at ...> and the user's
delivery is disabled by bounce only if and when the probe bounces.

The issue in your case is your incoming MTA is probably not delivering
mail for LISTNAME-bounces+TOKEN to LISTNAME-bounces.

If the MTA is Postfix, you need

recipient_delimiter = +

in main.cf, or if you want to use a different delimiter, say '-', you
can change the defaults

VERP_PROBE_FORMAT = '%(bounces)s+%(token)s'
VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^+]+?)\+(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'

by putting

VERP_PROBE_FORMAT = '%(bounces)s-%(token)s'
VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>.*)\-(?P<token>[^@-]+)@.*$'

in mm_cfg.py. I think that regexp will work, but I didn't test it.

Also see <http://wiki.list.org/x/p4A9>.

If you don't have access to make these changes, you will need to get
the installation admins to do it as bounce processing will not work in
this installation until one or the other change is made.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Fri Apr 10 20:12:04 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 19:12:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to send moderator email approval
In-Reply-To: <195345.8609.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <195345.8609.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090410181203.GE18880@amyl.org.uk>

On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 12:02:58PM -0700, Abdul Javid wrote:
> Hi
> ?
> Is there a setting to let list?moderators a notification that a
> pending request is approved/rejected.  
>
> If there are 3 email ids in moderators, if one approves, i would like
> other 2 to know that the email has been taken care.

Why not have the moderator dealing with the request reply to the mails?:
with any sane MUA (i.e., one that (properly) handles threading) it's
then obvious action's been taken.


From rick at niof.net  Sat Apr 11 22:40:02 2009
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 16:40:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderated members can't post
Message-ID: <20090411204002.GA27106@niof.net>

Help! I just discovered the following in my error log:

Apr 11 15:31:15 2009 (25836) Uncaught runner exception: Generator instance has no __call__ method
Apr 11 15:31:15 2009 (25836) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py", line 69, in process
    ModeratedMemberPost)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 224, in hold_for_approval
    id = mlist.HoldMessage(msg, reason, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 205, in HoldMessage
    g(msg, 1)
AttributeError: Generator instance has no __call__ method

I'm running debian:

mailman:
  Installed: 1:2.1.12-1
  Candidate: 1:2.1.12-1
  Version table:
 *** 1:2.1.12-1 0
        990 ftp://debian.uchicago.edu testing/main Packages
        200 ftp://ftp.debian.org unstable/main Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

Should I downgrade to 2.1.11-11?

-- 
"Be more concerned with your character than with your reputation. Your
 character is what you really are while your reputation is merely what
 others think you are." -- Dale Carnegie
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 11 23:35:16 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 14:35:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderated members can't post
In-Reply-To: <20090411204002.GA27106@niof.net>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904111435160125e7e1aa4d@msapiro>

Rick Pasotto wrote:

>Help! I just discovered the following in my error log:
>
>Apr 11 15:31:15 2009 (25836) Uncaught runner exception: Generator instance has no __call__ method
>Apr 11 15:31:15 2009 (25836) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py", line 69, in process
>    ModeratedMemberPost)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 224, in hold_for_approval
>    id = mlist.HoldMessage(msg, reason, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 205, in HoldMessage
>    g(msg, 1)
>AttributeError: Generator instance has no __call__ method
>
>I'm running debian:
>
>mailman:
>  Installed: 1:2.1.12-1
>  Candidate: 1:2.1.12-1
>  Version table:
> *** 1:2.1.12-1 0
>        990 ftp://debian.uchicago.edu testing/main Packages
>        200 ftp://ftp.debian.org unstable/main Packages
>        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
>
>Should I downgrade to 2.1.11-11?


Possibly. This appears to be a Debian packaging issue somehow.

What is your Python version?

Is there an email library in Mailman's pythonlib directory?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Sun Apr 12 00:41:16 2009
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 17:41:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Webbugs
Message-ID: <18A558F2-BCAC-4AE1-8E54-7090EF74F4C2@goldmark.org>

This is kind of off-topic in that it is not specific to mailman based  
lists, but I am wondering whether any mailman site managers have  
developed something that might meet my needs.

The short version of the question is that I would like to have one  
list that sends HTML messages that "include" images which are not the  
mail itself, and where the URL for at least one of these remotely  
hosted images is personalized for the specific recipient.

OK.  Now the background.  I have recently been co-opted by a local  
community/non-profit to help with their web work.  I also have a  
mailman installation that I use for other things and other groups.   
This particular group, however, has been using Constant Contact for  
their occasional newsletter.   They are just using the free service  
which is very limited (no archiving, no user subscription page, etc).   
But it does offer two things that I don't really know how to do.  One  
is having "templates" that make it easy for a very unskilled person to  
create an "attractive" and "rich" email to be sent out.  The other is  
tracking via webbugs.

I don't know whether the Constant Contact system for creating such  
messages is a server side thing or client side.  Any client side  
portion (if there is to be one) would need to run on Windows.

So does anyone know of any tools, preferably open source, that would  
help me set up a list that would add those two properties?  I'm  
running on a FreeBSD system with all the usual suspects (Apache, perl,  
PHP, mailman (of course), ...).

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From beta at admilon.net  Fri Apr 10 06:33:45 2009
From: beta at admilon.net (Matthias Schmidt)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:33:45 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to send moderator email approval
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090409204517029624f7e8f9@msapiro>
References: <195345.8609.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<PC187020090409204517029624f7e8f9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090410043346.201109517@mail.admilon.net>

Am/On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:45:17 -0700 schrieb/wrote Mark Sapiro:

>Abdul Javid wrote:
>>?
>>Is there a setting to let list?moderators a notification that a pending
>request is approved/rejected.
>>?
>>If there are 3 email ids in moderators, if one approves, i would like
>other 2 to know that the email has been taken care.
>
>
>I'm sorry.  There is no such notification option within Mailman.

usually one can set up mailman to send a disapproval-mail in a moderated list.
Wouldn't it be than possible either in mailman itself or in the MTA to
send a copy to a list of admins?
Just an idea, didn't try that.

cheers,
Matthias


From brendonl at ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 10 04:45:07 2009
From: brendonl at ISI.EDU (Brendon Lloyd)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 19:45:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating to new server
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904071552150.31411@macos.cmi.ua.ac.be>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904071552150.31411@macos.cmi.ua.ac.be>
Message-ID: <49DEB2B3.9000509@isi.edu>

Here's a good one:

http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/567

However, I found that in addition to the steps described above, the 
"make install" script updates old data, archives, and lists directories, 
so it's best to install from source if you plan to migrate/upgrade.

Also you will need to run the /usr/local/mailman/bin/check_perms script 
to straighten out your permissions.

Pieter Donche wrote:
> An old server is to be replaced with a new one. The old server
> (solaris mailman-2.1.7) runs a couple of mailing lists. We will keep 
> the same web address and the same e-mail address on the new server 
> (FreeBSD7 mailman-2.1.11).
>
> In the old server the mailman software ran under a normal user with 
> everything in the home-dir of that user. In the new server it needs to 
> be in /usr/local/mailman (where FreeBSD installs it)
>
> What steps need to be executed to migrate all the mailings lists 
> (archives
> memberslists etc...) from the old to the new server?
> I have unix root access to both machines.
>
> Is there a step by step document ?
>
> The B.Warsaw GNU Mailman - Installation Manual lacks a section on
> migration ...
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brendonl%40isi.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9


From brendonl at ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 10 06:03:12 2009
From: brendonl at ISI.EDU (Brendon Lloyd)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 21:03:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange admindb GUI issue.
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904092026380968869d7fee@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200904092026380968869d7fee@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49DEC500.7070705@isi.edu>

Thanks for the reply. As the link suggested I just changed the 
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN to https://%s/mailman/ and now everything works.

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Brendon Lloyd wrote:
>   
>> I was wondering if anyone has come across this problem:
>>
>> I recently migrated mailman from version 2.1.7 to 2.1.12, and most of 
>> the admindb GUI appears to work, however, when I attempt to accept held 
>> messages, nothing happens after I click on "Submit All Data". I just see 
>> the same form, with no error message or notice that the message has been 
>> accepted.
>>     
>
>
> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ioA9>. Most of what's in that
> FAQ is applicable even though you are not being asked to
> reauthenticate.
>
>
>   
>> I've run the check_perms script and fixed any permissions issues.
>>
>> I've also used: "./withlist -l -r fix_url $list -u $newdomain" to switch 
>> the domain of the old lists to the new one, and I've run "make install" 
>> with the older data, lists, and archives files in place, and that 
>> appeared to make some changes to the older dirs to be compatible with 
>> 2.1.12.
>>
>> I've checked my /usr/local/mailman/logs/error logs and see nothing. I've 
>> also checked my apache error logs and my system logs.
>>
>> In the absence of a quick fix for this problem, can anyone point out a 
>> good way to set mailman to a greater level of debugging, so that I can 
>> gather more clues as to why this won't work?
>>     
>
>
> Mailman has little in the way of debugging level controls. If you get
> to the point where you really need to know more than is available in
> existing logs, you need to add aditional logging statements at the
> source level.
>
>   


From lars at vectortechnologies.ca  Sat Apr 11 05:36:26 2009
From: lars at vectortechnologies.ca (Lars Olson)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 22:36:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache does not have permission to access
	pipermail/listname
Message-ID: <7176926F5E78473E94E041794246A9A0@romans>

I am receiving an apache forbidden page when I try to access my archives
after moving my lists to a new server.  My old server was 2.1.8 ? new server
is running 2.1.9 and using the same domain name.

Everything is working correctly except the archives... 

/etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf has appropriate piper alias
--- cut here ---
Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
<Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
    Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>
--- end cut here ---

- Permissions on public archives directory is drwxrwsr-x with symlinks to
private lists
- Permissions on private archives directory is drwxrws--x with directories
below as drwxrwsr-x
- Files within the private folder are world readable with -rw-rw-r--
- I ran the bin/arch script (/usr/lib/mailman/bin/arch listname
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox)
- I ran the withlist script to verify permissions are correct (./withlist -l
-r fix_url listname)

Don't know what else to try.  Haven't found anything in the FAQ or the
Mailman archives.  I have tried reading the documentation labyrinth but that
hasn't helped so far - I'm thinking I need a new direction, a new path to
follow - been looking at this too long... 

Looking for some help at this point.

This email message has been scanned for viruses before being sent to you and
found to be
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.49/2050 - Release Date: 04/10/09
06:39:00




From phoenix.kiula at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 18:08:05 2009
From: phoenix.kiula at gmail.com (Phoenix Kiula)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 21:38:05 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending bulk mail (400,000 users)
Message-ID: <e373d31e0904110908o37c01e3cu6ef6c3a7bc3e7e32@mail.gmail.com>

Hi. I need to send annoucements to a large opt-in list.

Having never done this before and not being now confident if PHP's
mail() can manage it, I was pointed to mailman.

My questions:

(1) Is it possible for mailman to send emails where the "to:" header
has the email of a specific recipient? It's more personal than sending
to a common email address.

(2) Secondly, on a 2GB memory server with fast SATA hard disks, is
sending email to 400,000 users possible with mailman? Will it
automatically take care of delays etc between batches of sending?

(3) How can I make sure that the emails sent honor my DNZ zone records
and pick up my SPF settings, and my Domain Keys? Or is that something
the receiver's email client does as long as these are validly
published on my domain?

Thanks for any thoughts! Hope my questions are not too newbie.

From phoenix.kiula at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 18:09:37 2009
From: phoenix.kiula at gmail.com (Phoenix Kiula)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 21:39:37 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending bulk mail (400,000 users)
In-Reply-To: <e373d31e0904110908o37c01e3cu6ef6c3a7bc3e7e32@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e373d31e0904110908o37c01e3cu6ef6c3a7bc3e7e32@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e373d31e0904110909h3faeba82k5cfda3f3b845fe6a@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry,also one more question:

(4)  What is a good way to add about 400,000 users? Can I save these
in a huge text file and then use the upload function in the mailman
web interface? I wonder if this will crash my server. (I could do it
in batches of 100,000 or so).

Thanks!



On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Phoenix Kiula <phoenix.kiula at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi. I need to send annoucements to a large opt-in list.
>
> Having never done this before and not being now confident if PHP's
> mail() can manage it, I was pointed to mailman.
>
> My questions:
>
> (1) Is it possible for mailman to send emails where the "to:" header
> has the email of a specific recipient? It's more personal than sending
> to a common email address.
>
> (2) Secondly, on a 2GB memory server with fast SATA hard disks, is
> sending email to 400,000 users possible with mailman? Will it
> automatically take care of delays etc between batches of sending?
>
> (3) How can I make sure that the emails sent honor my DNZ zone records
> and pick up my SPF settings, and my Domain Keys? Or is that something
> the receiver's email client does as long as these are validly
> published on my domain?
>
> Thanks for any thoughts! Hope my questions are not too newbie.
>

From vince at wlcr.net  Sat Apr 11 18:26:33 2009
From: vince at wlcr.net (vince at wlcr.net)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 12:26:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detailed Flowchart
Message-ID: <077E57A4F40046CEBF638451FEE71621@L520>

Where can I get a detailed flowchart of the Mailman program?

Thanks!

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 13 21:07:49 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 12:07:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache does not have permission to
	accesspipermail/listname
In-Reply-To: <7176926F5E78473E94E041794246A9A0@romans>
Message-ID: <PC187020090413120749057807fcaa73@msapiro>

Lars Olson wrote:

>I am receiving an apache forbidden page when I try to access my archives
>after moving my lists to a new server.  My old server was 2.1.8 ? new server
>is running 2.1.9 and using the same domain name.
>
>Everything is working correctly except the archives... 
>
>/etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf has appropriate piper alias
>--- cut here ---
>Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
><Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
>    Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
>    AllowOverride None
>    Order allow,deny
>    Allow from all
></Directory>
>--- end cut here ---
>
>- Permissions on public archives directory is drwxrwsr-x with symlinks to
>private lists
>- Permissions on private archives directory is drwxrws--x with directories


That's good.


>below as drwxrwsr-x
>- Files within the private folder are world readable with -rw-rw-r--
>- I ran the bin/arch script (/usr/lib/mailman/bin/arch listname
>archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox)
>- I ran the withlist script to verify permissions are correct (./withlist -l
>-r fix_url listname)


It's bin/check_perms that checks permissions. fix_url changes web and
email host names for the list which chouldn't be necessary in your
situation.


>Don't know what else to try.  Haven't found anything in the FAQ or the
>Mailman archives.  I have tried reading the documentation labyrinth but that
>hasn't helped so far - I'm thinking I need a new direction, a new path to
>follow - been looking at this too long... 
>
>Looking for some help at this point.


What is the error message in Apache's error_log?

Is this a SELinux or other security manager issue?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 13 21:20:34 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 12:20:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending bulk mail (400,000 users)
In-Reply-To: <e373d31e0904110909h3faeba82k5cfda3f3b845fe6a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904131220340015056115b1@msapiro>

Phoenix Kiula wrote:

>Sorry,also one more question:
>
>(4)  What is a good way to add about 400,000 users? Can I save these
>in a huge text file and then use the upload function in the mailman
>web interface? I wonder if this will crash my server. (I could do it
>in batches of 100,000 or so).


bin/add_members would be better. The web interface would probably time
out.

More answers below.


>
>On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Phoenix Kiula <phoenix.kiula at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi. I need to send annoucements to a large opt-in list.


I hope it's really opt-in.


>> Having never done this before and not being now confident if PHP's
>> mail() can manage it, I was pointed to mailman.
>>
>> My questions:
>>
>> (1) Is it possible for mailman to send emails where the "to:" header
>> has the email of a specific recipient? It's more personal than sending
>> to a common email address.


Yes. It's called "Full Personalization"


>> (2) Secondly, on a 2GB memory server with fast SATA hard disks, is
>> sending email to 400,000 users possible with mailman? Will it
>> automatically take care of delays etc between batches of sending?


I don't know what you mean by delays between batches. If you enable
Full Personalization, each recipient is sent a separate message so you
will have 400,000 MTA transactions with 1 recipient each.

If you need some kind of throttling between Mailman and the MTA,
Mailman doesn't do that.


>> (3) How can I make sure that the emails sent honor my DNZ zone records
>> and pick up my SPF settings, and my Domain Keys? Or is that something
>> the receiver's email client does as long as these are validly
>> published on my domain?


This has nothing to do with Mailman. The MTA mailman delivers to
determines the IP address that the mail comes from. Your SPF records
need to list that IP as one that's allowable for your domain. Also
it's the MTA that adds any DKIM/Domain-Keys headers.

If your MTA and DNS is currently properly configured in this respect,
then it isn't any different when Mailman is originating the mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Apr 13 21:21:47 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:21:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending bulk mail (400,000 users)
In-Reply-To: <e373d31e0904110908o37c01e3cu6ef6c3a7bc3e7e32@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e373d31e0904110908o37c01e3cu6ef6c3a7bc3e7e32@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E390CB.2000507@shub-internet.org>

on 4/11/09 11:08 AM, Phoenix Kiula said:

> Hi. I need to send annoucements to a large opt-in list.
> 
> Having never done this before and not being now confident if PHP's
> mail() can manage it, I was pointed to mailman.
> 
> My questions:

For all your questions, I would encourage you to first visit our FAQ at 
<http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3>.  There is a decent search function, and 
the FAQ is broken down by various sections.

> (1) Is it possible for mailman to send emails where the "to:" header
> has the email of a specific recipient? It's more personal than sending
> to a common email address.

Mailman has some personalization options, yes.  For more details, see 
the FAQ.

> (2) Secondly, on a 2GB memory server with fast SATA hard disks, is
> sending email to 400,000 users possible with mailman? Will it
> automatically take care of delays etc between batches of sending?

There are too many factors involved to be able to say for sure.  Try 
searching the FAQ for "performance".

I will say that what you're talking about is not out of the realm of 
possibility, and might even be reasonably easy to do, with the right MTA 
with the right configuration, etc....  But there are far too many other 
variables to be able to give a blanket statement based on such few facts.


That said, coming on this list and asking for advice on how to send to a 
claimed opt-in list of 400k users might be considered by some people to 
be a bit suspicious.  We've had some not-so-bright spammers come on here 
before to try to get us to help them send out their effluent faster, and 
I think we have successfully discouraged the less intelligent ones away.

I would encourage you to be really, really sure that the list in 
question is truly 100% confirmed double opt-in, and not just some 
spammer list that is being imported from some other provider because 
they got kicked off.  There are responsible e-mail marketing resources I 
can point you to that can help you with these kinds of tasks, if you're 
interested.

I don't mean to offend, but you should understand that it can be 
difficult to tell the difference between a spammer who is pretending to 
be a white hat, and a real white hat who just has a large-ish job to do.

> (3) How can I make sure that the emails sent honor my DNZ zone records
> and pick up my SPF settings, and my Domain Keys? Or is that something
> the receiver's email client does as long as these are validly
> published on my domain?

All of those things are external to Mailman.  It would be up to your MTA 
to make sure that all outbound mail conforms to the appropriate 
standards, and up to the recipient MTAs to ensure that they perform the 
appropriate functions relative to those standards.

I can tell you right now that not all of those recipient servers will 
act appropriately.  You're going to have to decide how you're going to 
handle that.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Apr 13 21:22:50 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:22:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detailed Flowchart
In-Reply-To: <077E57A4F40046CEBF638451FEE71621@L520>
References: <077E57A4F40046CEBF638451FEE71621@L520>
Message-ID: <49E3910A.90204@shub-internet.org>

on 4/11/09 11:26 AM, vince at wlcr.net said:

> Where can I get a detailed flowchart of the Mailman program?

I don't think there is one.  You could probably write a program in 
Python to parse the Python code and to generate such a flowchart.  Short 
of that, I have no idea what kind of solutions might be available to you.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Apr 14 04:38:10 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:38:10 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to send moderator email approval
In-Reply-To: <20090410043346.201109517@mail.admilon.net>
References: <195345.8609.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<PC187020090409204517029624f7e8f9@msapiro>
	<20090410043346.201109517@mail.admilon.net>
Message-ID: <87ws9ot0x9.fsf@xemacs.org>

Matthias Schmidt writes:

 > Wouldn't it be than possible either in mailman itself or in the MTA to
 > send a copy to a list of admins?
 > Just an idea, didn't try that.

This would be hard to do in the MTA; it doesn't have the relevant
information.

But it isn't hard to do in Mailman; it just requires a fairly
straightforward modification of the source.  That hasn't been done,
yet.

The hard questions are (1) "is it a *good* idea?"  Apparently several
people think so, but there may be a better way to accomplish the same
thing.  How about an aggregation of RSS feeds, like a buildbot[1]
display, from all your lists, anyone?  Or, personally, I use a folder
of bookmarks to my lists and just open-all-in-tabs, etc.  I don't
claim that the alternatives I present are *actually* better, but since
there *are* alternatives, one of them might be a clear win over more
email.  And it may pose problems.  Could this feature be used to DOS or
harrass the admins (a la "backscatter")?  I don't think so off-hand,
but any "push" medium needs to be checked for abuse potential.

(2) "What kind of configuration should the feature have?"  Where does
it fit in the Mailman admin screens?  What options should be available
(list of addresses, frequency, can we aggregate such notifications
across several lists, etc)?

If your answer to (1) is "yes, and I can't think of a *better* idea",
then file an RFE on tracker.  Answers to (2) are optional, but really
really help make your case (thinking about this kind of yucky detail
that almost everybody will disagree with no matter what you do is
really enthusiasm-draining for developers, you know<wink>).  A patch,
of course, is best.<nudge,nudge,wink,wink,say-no-more,say-no-more,eh?>


Footnotes: 
[1]  http://buildbot.net/trac/wiki/Screenshots/


From isanders at tpg.com.au  Tue Apr 14 04:15:49 2009
From: isanders at tpg.com.au (Ivan Sanders)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 12:15:49 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Template?
Message-ID: <1239675349.49e3f1d5f22e9@postoffice.tpg.com.au>


G'day guys,

I am managing a dozen lists for my scout group, and wonder whether I can
point them all to a template configuration??

Basically, when I make changes I need to go through all the lists
separately, or if I create a new list, I need to go and make all the
changes to it from scratch.

Looking at some way of having a master configuration which all my
existing, and any new lists would point to..

Cheers

Ivan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 14 17:17:52 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:17:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Template?
In-Reply-To: <1239675349.49e3f1d5f22e9@postoffice.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <PC18702009041408175207968173fad0@msapiro>

Ivan Sanders wrote:
>
>I am managing a dozen lists for my scout group, and wonder whether I can
>point them all to a template configuration??
>
>Basically, when I make changes I need to go through all the lists
>separately, or if I create a new list, I need to go and make all the
>changes to it from scratch.
>
>Looking at some way of having a master configuration which all my
>existing, and any new lists would point to..


This will be easier in Mailman 3. Currently, you need to get a list
configured as you like and save it's configuration with

bin/config_list -o file LISTNAME

Then you may want to edit file to remove some list specific things like
owner, moderator, description, info and subject_prefix. This then
becomes your template which you can apply to other lists with

bin/config_list -i file OTHERLISTNAME

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cgregory at hwcn.org  Tue Apr 14 17:29:21 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:29:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Disable processing not working?
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009041008431602344ef6013a@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009041008431602344ef6013a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904141127490.7499@barton.hwcn.org>

On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> It looks like the 'disable on excessive bounces' is not working right...
>
> The issue in your case is your incoming MTA is probably not delivering
> mail for LISTNAME-bounces+TOKEN to LISTNAME-bounces.
> If the MTA is Postfix, you need (in main.cf):
> recipient_delimiter = +

This is exactly what was needed! THANKS!

- Charles

From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Tue Apr 14 18:26:47 2009
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:26:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman server not accept mail from Google Apps
	domain
Message-ID: <FBBC72F3-9DA1-49B7-BE8E-316F0B8C66F3@canby.k12.or.us>

Hello,

All emails from google hosted domain (either gmail or our Google Apps  
domain) to our mailman server is being rejected while emails from  
other domains like me.com pass through. Is there a place in Mailman to  
whitelist a domain? Where can we check for the blacklisted domains?

Thanks,


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <mailer-daemon at googlemail.com>
Date: Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 5:02 PM
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Delay)

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification

THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY.

YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE.

Delivery to the following recipient has been delayed:

     technology at listserv.canby.k12.or.us

Message will be retried for 2 more day(s)

Technical details of temporary failure:
The recipient server did not accept our requests to connect. Learn  
more athttp://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=7720
[listserv.canby.k12.or.us (1): Connection timed out]


Hung Phan
Network Specialist
Canby School District
1859 S Township
Canby, OR 97013
503-266-0010


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 14 19:06:08 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:06:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman server not accept mail from Google
	Appsdomain
In-Reply-To: <FBBC72F3-9DA1-49B7-BE8E-316F0B8C66F3@canby.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC187020090414100608070346f9cf87@msapiro>

Hung Phan wrote:
>
>All emails from google hosted domain (either gmail or our Google Apps  
>domain) to our mailman server is being rejected while emails from  
>other domains like me.com pass through. Is there a place in Mailman to  
>whitelist a domain? Where can we check for the blacklisted domains?


Mailman has nothing to do with this. This is your incoming MTA which is
not accepting connects from these IPs or a firewall that is blocking
packets from these IPs.


[...]
>
>Technical details of temporary failure:
>The recipient server did not accept our requests to connect. Learn  
>more athttp://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=7720
>[listserv.canby.k12.or.us (1): Connection timed out]

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From beta at admilon.net  Wed Apr 15 01:51:09 2009
From: beta at admilon.net (Matthias Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 08:51:09 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman server not accept mail from Google Apps
 domain
In-Reply-To: <FBBC72F3-9DA1-49B7-BE8E-316F0B8C66F3@canby.k12.or.us>
References: <FBBC72F3-9DA1-49B7-BE8E-316F0B8C66F3@canby.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <20090414235109.66361290@mail.admilon.net>

Am/On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:26:47 -0700 schrieb/wrote Hung Phan:

>Hello,
>
>All emails from google hosted domain (either gmail or our Google Apps  
>domain) to our mailman server is being rejected while emails from  
>other domains like me.com pass through. Is there a place in Mailman to  
>whitelist a domain? Where can we check for the blacklisted domains?

>
>Technical details of temporary failure:
>The recipient server did not accept our requests to connect. Learn  
>http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=7720
>[listserv.canby.k12.or.us (1): Connection timed out]

did you actually read this page from google?
It clearly tells you were the problem is.
It's your MTA, your smtp server, who isnot accepting connections from google.

So probably google is just blacklisted either in your spamfilter, mta,
firewall ... 

cheers,
Matthias


From lars at vectortechnologies.ca  Wed Apr 15 04:10:57 2009
From: lars at vectortechnologies.ca (Lars Olson)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:10:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache does not have permission to access
	pipermail/listname
Message-ID: <ABB0F3041F9D447F836E8E20931492D4@romans>

I am receiving an apache forbidden page when I try to access my archives
after moving my lists to a new server.  My old server was 2.1.8 - new server
is running 2.1.9 and using the same domain name.

Everything is working correctly except the archives... 

/etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf has appropriate piper alias
--- cut here ---
Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
<Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
    Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>
--- end cut here ---

- Permissions on public archives directory is drwxrwsr-x with symlinks to
private lists
- Permissions on private archives directory is drwxrws--x with directories
below as drwxrwsr-x
- Files within the private folder are world readable with -rw-rw-r--
- I ran the bin/arch script (/usr/lib/mailman/bin/arch listname
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox)
- I ran the withlist script to verify permissions are correct (./withlist -l
-r fix_url listname)

Don't know what else to try.  Haven't found anything in the FAQ or the
Mailman archives.  I have tried reading the documentation labyrinth but that
hasn't helped so far - I'm thinking I need a new direction, a new path to
follow - been looking at this too long... 

Looking for some help at this point.

This email message has been scanned for viruses before being sent to you and
found to be
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.49/2050 - Release Date: 04/10/09
06:39:00




From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 15 04:33:48 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 19:33:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache does not have permission to
	accesspipermail/listname
In-Reply-To: <ABB0F3041F9D447F836E8E20931492D4@romans>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904141933480113db18a7e1@msapiro>

Lars Olson wrote:

>I am receiving an apache forbidden page when I try to access my archives
>after moving my lists to a new server.  My old server was 2.1.8 - new server
>is running 2.1.9 and using the same domain name.


You posted the same issue to this list 4 days ago. My reply is at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-April/065745.html>.

Provide us with some new information and we may be able to help further.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lars at vectortechnologies.ca  Wed Apr 15 11:03:39 2009
From: lars at vectortechnologies.ca (Lars Olson)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 04:03:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache does not have permission
	toaccesspipermail/listname
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904141933480113db18a7e1@msapiro>
References: <ABB0F3041F9D447F836E8E20931492D4@romans>
	<PC1870200904141933480113db18a7e1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <B8008681998845AFA2AE34D0E75A8F02@romans>


Sorry about the dup post - I never did receive the original post or replies
so I assumed it was lost...

My error_log below
[Tue Apr 14 23:22:14 2009] [error] [client 66.249.73.209] (13)Permission
denied: access to /pipermail/whpnews/2006-February/author.html denied

Looks like you nailed it with your comment about SELinux.  I just ran
setenforce 0 and tried again and was able to view the archive.  Now the
question is how do I fix the SELinux problem?


-----Original Message-----

Lars Olson wrote:

>I am receiving an apache forbidden page when I try to access my archives
>after moving my lists to a new server.  My old server was 2.1.8 - new
server
>is running 2.1.9 and using the same domain name.


You posted the same issue to this list 4 days ago. My reply is at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-April/065745.html>.

Provide us with some new information and we may be able to help further.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 15 15:52:07 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 06:52:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache does not have permission to access
	pipermail/listname
In-Reply-To: <B8008681998845AFA2AE34D0E75A8F02@romans>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904150652070703b3b48586@msapiro>

Lars Olson wrote:
>
>Looks like you nailed it with your comment about SELinux.  I just ran
>setenforce 0 and tried again and was able to view the archive.  Now the
>question is how do I fix the SELinux problem?


Sorry, that's a SELinux question, not a Mailman question. I know
essentially zero about SELinux.

Are you running a RedHat Mailman package? If so, it has some changes[1]
to make it more FHS compliant and SELinux friendly so you should be
able to make it work. If this isn't the RedHat package, I don't have a
clue.

[1]
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-October/017343.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lars at vectortechnologies.ca  Wed Apr 15 15:59:10 2009
From: lars at vectortechnologies.ca (Lars Olson)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 08:59:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache does not have permission to
	accesspipermail/listname
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904150652070703b3b48586@msapiro>
References: <B8008681998845AFA2AE34D0E75A8F02@romans>
	<PC1870200904150652070703b3b48586@msapiro>
Message-ID: <B815A12E730B4482B7877CF3A8759559@romans>


This is a Fedora RPM so I will try the Fedora forums. 

Thanks Mark.



Lars Olson wrote:
>
>Looks like you nailed it with your comment about SELinux.  I just ran
>setenforce 0 and tried again and was able to view the archive.  Now the
>question is how do I fix the SELinux problem?

Sorry, that's a SELinux question, not a Mailman question. I know
essentially zero about SELinux.

Are you running a RedHat Mailman package? If so, it has some changes[1]
to make it more FHS compliant and SELinux friendly so you should be
able to make it work. If this isn't the RedHat package, I don't have a
clue.

[1]
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-October/017343.htm
l>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 16 02:33:20 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:33:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to discard bounced messages?
In-Reply-To: <595eff690904151206y5f2aefdk6aa6be5274ae758e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904151733200109f1d24b41@msapiro>

Danil Smirnov wrote:
>
>Dear gurus!


Since this was apparently intended for the list, I'm copying it with my
reply to the list.


>I've successfully deleted request.pck file but it looks like it's not a
>solution for my case...
>Spammer`s subscription requests appears again and they are not auto-removing
>despite
>I've set ''max_days_to_hold' parameter to 1. If I push 'Delete all messages
>marked as delayed'
>on moderator`s tasks page they are not removed after page is reloaded. Is it
>normal behaviour
>for the list engine? Thank you...


Held subscription requests are not held messages. max_days_to_hold,
"delete all messages marked defer" and bin/discard all apply only to
messages, not to subscription requests.

You need to individually mark each request "discard" in the admindb
interface and "Submit All Data". There is no bulk removal method or
tool for subscription requests. You need to do this often enough to
prevent the number of outstanding requests from growing so large that
the admindb interface times out before loading the page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 16 17:42:24 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 08:42:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to discard bounced messages?
In-Reply-To: <595eff690904152205l6280571ar8de1c225da29617c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904160842240375db94328f@msapiro>

Danil Smirnov wrote:
>
>2009/4/16 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
>
>>
>> You need to individually mark each request "discard" in the admindb
>> interface and "Submit All Data". There is no bulk removal method or
>> tool for subscription requests. You need to do this often enough to
>> prevent the number of outstanding requests from growing so large that
>> the admindb interface times out before loading the page.
>
>
>But I've got 1 thousand spammer`s request in 3 days!!! May be I can just
>switch off subscription service at all? My list is announcement list so I
>need no subscription service... Please advice how can I do that...


I suspect what is happening is that spammers are not deliberately
trying to subscribe in order to spam your list. Rather, I think that
spammers are just spamming your LISTNAME-subscribe and LISTNAME-join
addresses resulting in subscription requests.

There are a few things you can do.

You can just periodically discard all requests by removing the
lists/LISTNAME/request.pck file.

You can modify cron/checkdbs [1] to apply max_days_to_hold to subscribe
requests as well as messages.

Depending on your MTA, you can just remove the aliases for
LISTNAME-request and LISTNAME-join. This is probably best as it will
return a failure to the spammer at SMTP time

[1] To modify cron/checkdbs, add the line

    heldmsgs.extend(mlist.GetSubscriptionIds())

to the definition

def auto_discard(mlist):
    # Discard old held messages
    discard_count = 0
    expire = mlist.max_days_to_hold * 86400 # days
    heldmsgs = mlist.GetHeldMessageIds()
    if expire and len(heldmsgs):
        for id in heldmsgs:
            if now - mlist.GetRecord(id)[0] > expire:
                mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD)
                discard_count += 1
        mlist.Save()
    return discard_count

so it becomes

def auto_discard(mlist):
    # Discard old held messages
    discard_count = 0
    expire = mlist.max_days_to_hold * 86400 # days
    heldmsgs = mlist.GetHeldMessageIds()
    heldmsgs.extend(mlist.GetSubscriptionIds())
    if expire and len(heldmsgs):
        for id in heldmsgs:
            if now - mlist.GetRecord(id)[0] > expire:
                mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD)
                discard_count += 1
        mlist.Save()
    return discard_count


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From danil.smirnov at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 16:32:46 2009
From: danil.smirnov at gmail.com (Danil Smirnov)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:32:46 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to discard bounced messages?
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904160842240375db94328f@msapiro>
References: <595eff690904152205l6280571ar8de1c225da29617c@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1870200904160842240375db94328f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <595eff690904170732p3b5e3ea0w64aeeeb90d410ade@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Mark!

For me it sounds more attractive to remove the aliases for
LISTNAME-request and LISTNAME-join to avoid any processor load.

May be you can advice to me how could I do that with qmail MTA software
installed?...

I've found .qmail-LISTNAME-join and .qmail-LISTNAME-request
files with the following content (accordingly):

|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join agencies
|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request agencies

But it seems to me that I have to remove aliases from some other place...

Thank you...

Danil

2009/4/16 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

> Danil Smirnov wrote:
> >
> >2009/4/16 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
> >
> >>
> >> You need to individually mark each request "discard" in the admindb
> >> interface and "Submit All Data". There is no bulk removal method or
> >> tool for subscription requests. You need to do this often enough to
> >> prevent the number of outstanding requests from growing so large that
> >> the admindb interface times out before loading the page.
> >
> >
> >But I've got 1 thousand spammer`s request in 3 days!!! May be I can just
> >switch off subscription service at all? My list is announcement list so I
> >need no subscription service... Please advice how can I do that...
>
>
> I suspect what is happening is that spammers are not deliberately
> trying to subscribe in order to spam your list. Rather, I think that
> spammers are just spamming your LISTNAME-subscribe and LISTNAME-join
> addresses resulting in subscription requests.
>
> There are a few things you can do.
>
> You can just periodically discard all requests by removing the
> lists/LISTNAME/request.pck file.
>
> You can modify cron/checkdbs [1] to apply max_days_to_hold to subscribe
> requests as well as messages.
>
> Depending on your MTA, you can just remove the aliases for
> LISTNAME-request and LISTNAME-join. This is probably best as it will
> return a failure to the spammer at SMTP time
>
> [1] To modify cron/checkdbs, add the line
>
>    heldmsgs.extend(mlist.GetSubscriptionIds())
>
> to the definition
>
> def auto_discard(mlist):
>    # Discard old held messages
>    discard_count = 0
>    expire = mlist.max_days_to_hold * 86400 # days
>    heldmsgs = mlist.GetHeldMessageIds()
>    if expire and len(heldmsgs):
>        for id in heldmsgs:
>            if now - mlist.GetRecord(id)[0] > expire:
>                mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD)
>                discard_count += 1
>        mlist.Save()
>    return discard_count
>
> so it becomes
>
> def auto_discard(mlist):
>    # Discard old held messages
>    discard_count = 0
>    expire = mlist.max_days_to_hold * 86400 # days
>    heldmsgs = mlist.GetHeldMessageIds()
>    heldmsgs.extend(mlist.GetSubscriptionIds())
>    if expire and len(heldmsgs):
>        for id in heldmsgs:
>            if now - mlist.GetRecord(id)[0] > expire:
>                mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD)
>                discard_count += 1
>        mlist.Save()
>    return discard_count
>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From jacuesta at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 00:48:56 2009
From: jacuesta at gmail.com (Juan Antonio Cuesta)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:48:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sincronize Alias Mailman with Postfix
Message-ID: <232eebf50904161548i1b5bce93g48b3f1dda6a8106@mail.gmail.com>

Helo,

i want to install MailMan on a server that already is giving service
of Apache and that MailMan sendmail thought other server that already
has Postfix. The problem is that i do not know how can do for that
Mailman can manage the aliases of postfix.

Can someone help me?

From punit_j at rediffmail.com  Fri Apr 17 10:49:30 2009
From: punit_j at rediffmail.com (punit_j)
Date: 17 Apr 2009 08:49:30 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails bounce when sent to join address
Message-ID: <20090417084930.36823.qmail@f5mail-237-241.rediffmail.com>

Hi , I am trying to integrate mailman with postfix. I have created new list :-&nbsp;bin/list_lists2 matching mailing lists found:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mailman - Mailman site list&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Testing - [no description available]$ bin/list_members testingtest2 at test.comAlias file as follows : -# STANZA START: mailman# CREATED: Fri Apr 17 08:46:08 2009mailman:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"mailman-admin:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"mailman-bounces:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"mailman-confirm:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"mailman-join:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"mailman-leave:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"mailman-owner:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"mailman-request:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"mailman-subscribe:&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"# STANZA END: mailman# STANZA START: testing# CREATED: Fri Apr 17 08:46:08 2009testing:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testing"testing-admin:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin testing"testing-bounces:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testing"testing-confirm:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm testing"testing-join:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join testing"testing-leave:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave testing"testing-owner:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner testing"testing-request:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request testing"testing-subscribe:&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe testing"testing-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe testing"# STANZA END: testing&nbsp;virtual-mailman# STANZA START: testing# CREATED: Fri Apr 17 08:46:08 2009testing at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testingtesting-admin at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-admintesting-bounces at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-bouncestesting-confirm at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-confirmtesting-join at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-jointesting-leave at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-leavetesting-owner at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-ownertesting-request at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-requesttesting-subscribe at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-subscribetesting-unsubscribe at test.com&nbsp; testing-unsubscribe# STANZA END: testingNow the problem is when i send mail from new user say test3 at test.com to testing-join at test.com , the mail bounces.:-I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could notbe delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.If you do so, please include this problem report. You candelete your own text from the attached returned message.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The mail system&lt;testing-join at test.com&gt;: test.comI have not created user testing-join at test.com on my system, presuming it should be an alias.Please advice what wrong is going on ?Regards,Punit



From radim.roska at iaeste.cz  Fri Apr 17 11:45:24 2009
From: radim.roska at iaeste.cz (Radim Roska, IAESTE CVUT)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 11:45:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem mailman 2.1.10
Message-ID: <49E84FB4.4030503@iaeste.cz>

Hi,

I've got strange problem. It looks mailman does not send mails to all 
list members.

My mailman is 2.1.10 with modinc-2.1.9-0.1.patch and 
mhonarc-2.1.9-0.1.patch
patches...

# list_members mail-list | wc -l

45


log in mailman:

Apr 17 00:46:18 2009 (5109) <49E7B53F.8050501 at domain.tld> smtp to 
mail-list for 43 recips, completed in 0.081 seconds


Do you have any idea where could be problem? Where to the code should I 
look...Is there debug option so i could see precisely what address 
mailman is delivering to?

I could probably find it in code myself..but it would  take me 100x 
longer...so please if you can help me..I would appreciate

Thanks!
Radim

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 17 18:34:39 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:34:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to discard bounced messages?
In-Reply-To: <595eff690904170732p3b5e3ea0w64aeeeb90d410ade@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090417093439076544f070e4@msapiro>

Danil Smirnov wrote:
>
>For me it sounds more attractive to remove the aliases for
>LISTNAME-request and LISTNAME-join to avoid any processor load.
>
>May be you can advice to me how could I do that with qmail MTA software
>installed?...
>
>I've found .qmail-LISTNAME-join and .qmail-LISTNAME-request
>files with the following content (accordingly):
>
>|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
>/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join agencies
>|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
>/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request agencies
>
>But it seems to me that I have to remove aliases from some other place...


I don't know qmail, but I *think* what you need to do is just remove
the files.

I.e. the file .qmail-LISTNAME-join which contains

|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join LISTNAME

is the alias for qmail that tells it how to deliver the LISTNAME-join
mail. If you remove the file .qmail-LISTNAME-join, the address
LISTNAME-join will no longer be deliverable which is what you want.

I suggest however, that you remove the LISTNAME-join and
LISTNAME-subscribe aliases. I don't think it is as important to remove
LISTNAME-request, because spam to that address is unlikely to look
like a valid "subscribe" command. But, if you are sure that
LISTNAME-request is not used for any legitimate purpose by you or the
list members, then remove it too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 17 18:36:54 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:36:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sincronize Alias Mailman with Postfix
In-Reply-To: <232eebf50904161548i1b5bce93g48b3f1dda6a8106@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904170936540859d8740f11@msapiro>

Juan Antonio Cuesta wrote:
>
>i want to install MailMan on a server that already is giving service
>of Apache and that MailMan sendmail thought other server that already
>has Postfix. The problem is that i do not know how can do for that
>Mailman can manage the aliases of postfix.


See section 6.1.1 of the installation manual
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 17 18:46:16 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:46:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails bounce when sent to join address
In-Reply-To: <20090417084930.36823.qmail@f5mail-237-241.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090417094616042108d481f5@msapiro>

punit_j wrote:

>Hi , I am trying to integrate mailman with postfix. I have created new list :-&nbsp;bin/list_lists2 matching mailing lists found:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mailman - Mailman site list&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Testing - [no description available]$ bin/list_members testingtest2 at test.comAlias file as follows : -# STANZA START: mailman# CREATED: Fri Apr 17 08:46:08 2009mailman:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"mailman-admin:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"mailman-bounces:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"mailman-confirm:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"mailman-join:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"mailman-leave:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"mailman-owner:&nbsp;&nbsp;
> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"mailman-request:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"mailman-subscribe:&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"# STANZA END: mailman# STANZA START: testing# CREATED: Fri Apr 17 08:46:08 2009testing:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testing"testing-admin:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin testing"testing-bounces:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testing"testing-confirm:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm testing"testing-join:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join testing"testing-leave:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail
> /mailman leave testing"testing-owner:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner testing"testing-request:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request testing"testing-subscribe:&nbsp;&nbsp; "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe testing"testing-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe testing"# STANZA END: testing&nbsp;virtual-mailman# STANZA START: testing# CREATED: Fri Apr 17 08:46:08 2009testing at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testingtesting-admin at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-admintesting-bounces at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-bouncestesting-confirm at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-confirmtesting-join at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-jointesting-leave at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-leavetesting-owner at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs
> p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-ownertesting-request at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-requesttesting-subscribe at test.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; testing-subscribetesting-unsubscribe at test.com&nbsp; testing-unsubscribe# STANZA END: testingNow the problem is when i send mail from new user say test3 at test.com to testing-join at test.com , the mail bounces.:-I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could notbe delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.If you do so, please include this problem report. You candelete your own text from the attached returned message.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The mail system&lt;testing-join at test.com&gt;: test.comI have not created user testing-join at test.com on my system, presuming it should be an alias.Please advice what wrong is going on ?Regards,Punit


I don't know what broken MUA produced the above garbage, but when
posting to a mail list you should make an effort to post a readable
text/plain message.

In the mess above I see (replacing &nbsp; with space)

testing-join:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join testing"

so it looks like you have the alias. Perhaps you are not properly
referencing the aliases in Postfix. See section 6.1.1 of the
installation manual <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 17 18:56:19 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:56:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem mailman 2.1.10
In-Reply-To: <49E84FB4.4030503@iaeste.cz>
Message-ID: <PC18702009041709561902032154989e@msapiro>

Radim Roska, IAESTE CVUT wrote:
>
>I've got strange problem. It looks mailman does not send mails to all 
>list members.
>
>My mailman is 2.1.10 with modinc-2.1.9-0.1.patch and 
>mhonarc-2.1.9-0.1.patch
>patches...
>
># list_members mail-list | wc -l
>
>45


And what do you get from

# list_members --regular --nomail=enabled mail-list | wc -l



>log in mailman:
>
>Apr 17 00:46:18 2009 (5109) <49E7B53F.8050501 at domain.tld> smtp to 
>mail-list for 43 recips, completed in 0.081 seconds


If the number of regular members with delivery enabled (at the time of
the post) is > 43, the reasons for non-delivery to a member could be

- The poster has selected the option to not receive her own posts.

- One or more list members was directly addressed in the To: or Cc: of
  the post and has selected the option to not receive duplicates from
  the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adamsca at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 18:58:53 2009
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:58:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest question
Message-ID: <27572d930904170958r3235ee8fs6a30c6f4f23539c1@mail.gmail.com>

I have over 700 lists on my server. Recently, a user called about not
receiving a message to a list. I investigated and found that she was
subscribed to the digest version of the list.

I understand how digests work and have the cron set to send the
digests every night at midnight. However, if I do a listing of all the
lists and the time of creation of the digest.mbox, I see several dozen
that are more than 1 day old, including the list in question. I know
that I can generate the digest immediately from the admin interface,
but I am wondering why *all* lists with digest.mbox files are not
generating digests each night?

-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 17 19:23:55 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:23:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest question
In-Reply-To: <27572d930904170958r3235ee8fs6a30c6f4f23539c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090417102355051541a017fa@msapiro>

Christopher Adams  wrote:
>
>I understand how digests work and have the cron set to send the
>digests every night at midnight. However, if I do a listing of all the
>lists and the time of creation of the digest.mbox, I see several dozen
>that are more than 1 day old, including the list in question. I know
>that I can generate the digest immediately from the admin interface,
>but I am wondering why *all* lists with digest.mbox files are not
>generating digests each night?

Some list's digest.mbox has a message that is throwing an unexpected
exception when Scrubber tries to process it for the digest. There may
be a message in Mailman's error log from ArchiveRunner if it
encountered the same error when the message was posted.

When cron/senddigests encounters a processing error, where does the
output get mailed. In a default installation, it would be mailed to
the 'mailman' user which would be sent to the 'mailman' site list, and
what happens then (rejected or discarded as a non-member post?).

If you try to generate the digest immediately from the admin interface,
that may produce a digest or it may produce a "we hit a bug" error in
mailman's error log depending on whether the list you do it for is the
one with the problem or just one that happens to not be processed yet
when senddigests hits the error.

You can run cron/senddigests by hand and see the error, but you should
put a MAILTO= in Mailman's crontab to make sure any error reports
actually get delivered to someone.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Fri Apr 17 19:49:23 2009
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:49:23 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Operation not permitted
Message-ID: <49E8C123.7040007@agr.unicamp.br>

Hi,

I would like to know how to solve the problem below?

Apr 17 14:31:36 2009 (18013) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 1] 
Operation not permitted: 
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/cipg-l/index.html'
Apr 17 14:31:36 2009 (18013) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 217, in 
ArchiveMail
    h.close()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 327, in close
    self.write_TOC()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1094, in 
write_TOC
    toc = open(os.path.join(self.basedir, 'index.html'), 'w')
IOError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted: 
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/cipg-l/index.html'

Another detail, the directory is in shunt with 3000 files, the files can 
delete this directory?
Cheers,

Clovis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at feagri.unicamp.br http://www.feagri.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 35211031-35211038 ou FAX(55xx19) 35211005/35211010


From jredman at ergotech.com  Fri Apr 17 18:31:22 2009
From: jredman at ergotech.com (Jim Redman)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:31:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive 3rd Party List
Message-ID: <49E8AEDA.7070501@ergotech.com>

I subscribe to a mailing list that has no archive capabilities.

I don't really want to try to take over the list, but would like to 
archive the messages as a service to other list users.

Would it be possible to do this with Mailman?  Or does anyone have an 
alternate system that may be better capable to do this?

Thanks,

Jim

From phoenix.kiula at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 06:45:05 2009
From: phoenix.kiula at gmail.com (Phoenix Kiula)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:15:05 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending bulk mail (400,000 users)
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904131220340015056115b1@msapiro>
References: <e373d31e0904110909h3faeba82k5cfda3f3b845fe6a@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1870200904131220340015056115b1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e373d31e0904172145q69685b17x76e8a20d1a63e040@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Mark.

>>> (1) Is it possible for mailman to send emails where the "to:" header
>>> has the email of a specific recipient? It's more personal than sending
>>> to a common email address.
>
>
> Yes. It's called "Full Personalization"


How can I enable it?

I went into the mailman in cpanel and did not find this setting in the
"Non Digest" section.

Then I read the faq - http://www.list.org/faq.html - and there's no
information on "full personalization".

If cpanel uses an old version of mailman, or if it blocks the "full
personalization" feature, how can I manually enable it in the config
file or somethng?

Thanks.

From punit_j at rediffmail.com  Fri Apr 17 18:09:42 2009
From: punit_j at rediffmail.com (punit_j)
Date: 17 Apr 2009 16:09:42 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails bounce when sent to join address
Message-ID: <1239984259.598.autosave.old.1239984582.9142@webmail.rediffmail.com>

Hi ,I am integrating mailman with postfix. I have created new transport by name mailman :-mailman&nbsp;&nbsp; unix&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; n&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; n&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; pipe&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; flags=FR user=mailman:mailman argv=/usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py ${nexthop} ${user}Below is the script : -MailmanHome = "/usr/local/mailman"; # Mailman home directory.MailmanOwner = "listadminuser at test.com"; # Postmaster and abuse mail recipient.import sys, os, re, stringdef main():&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; os.nice(5)&nbsp; # Handle mailing lists at non-interactive priority.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; # delete this if you wish&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; os.chdir(MailmanHome + "/lists")&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; try:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; local = sys.argv[2]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; except:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; # This might happen if we're not using Postfix&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.stderr.write("LOCAL not set?\n")&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.exit(1)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; local = string.lower(local)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; local = re.sub("^mailman-","",local)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; names = ("root", "postmaster", "mailer-daemon", "mailman-owner", "owner", "abuse")&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; for i in names:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if i == local:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; os.execv("/usr/sbin/sendmail",&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("/usr/sbin/sendmail", MailmanOwner))&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.exit(0)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; type = "post"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; types = (("-admin$", "admin"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-owner$", "owner"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; types = (("-admin$", "admin"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-owner$", "owner"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-request$", "request"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-bounces$", "bounces"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-confirm$", "confirm"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-join$", "join"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-leave$", "leave"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-subscribe$", "subscribe"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-unsubscribe$", "unsubscribe"))&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; for i in types:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if re.search(i[0],local):&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; type = i[1]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; local = re.sub(i[0],"",local)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if os.path.exists(local):&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; os.execv(MailmanHome + "/mail/mailman",&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (MailmanHome + "/mail/mailman", type, local))&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; else:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bounce()&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.exit(75)def bounce():&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bounce_message = """\TO ACCESS THE MAILING LIST SYSTEM: Start your web browser onhttp://%s/That web page will help you subscribe or unsubscribe, and willgive you directions on how to post to each mailing list.\n"""&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.stderr.write(bounce_message % (sys.argv[1]))&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.exit(1)try:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.exit(main())except SystemExit, argument:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.exit(argument)except Exception, argument:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; info = sys.exc_info()&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; trace = info[2]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.stderr.write("%s %s\n" % (sys.exc_type, argument))&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.stderr.write("Line %d\n" % (trace.tb_lineno))&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.exit(75)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; # Soft failure, try again later.But when i send mail to testing-join at test.com ( a subscription mail to testing list ) , it bounces with following error : - &nbsp; The mail system&lt;testing-join at test.com&gt;: Command died with status 2:&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;"/usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py". Command output:&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;/usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py: line 2: MailmanHome: command&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;not found /usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py: line 3:&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;MailmanOwner: command not found&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;/usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py: line 61: import: command not&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;found /usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py: line 63: syntax error&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;near unexpected token `(' /usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py:&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;line 63: `def main():'I am no python expert. can anyone direct me to what i am doing wrong ?Regards,Punit



From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Apr 18 09:47:46 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 02:47:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive 3rd Party List
In-Reply-To: <49E8AEDA.7070501@ergotech.com>
References: <49E8AEDA.7070501@ergotech.com>
Message-ID: <49E985A2.6010106@shub-internet.org>

on 4/17/09 11:31 AM, Jim Redman said:

> I subscribe to a mailing list that has no archive capabilities.
> 
> I don't really want to try to take over the list, but would like to 
> archive the messages as a service to other list users.
> 
> Would it be possible to do this with Mailman?  Or does anyone have an 
> alternate system that may be better capable to do this?

You could set up a local Mailman mailing list that is a subscriber to 
the parent list, and it could provide archives.  However, that sort of 
thing is generally frowned upon by the people who run the mailing lists, 
so you should check with them first.

And to make sure that your system couldn't be abused to send spam 
through to the parent list, you'd have some security work you'd need to 
do to lock things down.


And if the parent list is also using Mailman, or some other package that 
also does things like send to you the password you need to access or 
modify your subscription options, then be advised that those things 
would get posted to your little archive system and then anyone else who 
wanted to could read those messages and go change your settings without 
your knowledge or approval.


It's certainly do-able, but you probably want to spend some time to 
think everything all the way through before you go down this route.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Apr 18 09:54:10 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 02:54:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending bulk mail (400,000 users)
In-Reply-To: <e373d31e0904172145q69685b17x76e8a20d1a63e040@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e373d31e0904110909h3faeba82k5cfda3f3b845fe6a@mail.gmail.com>	<PC1870200904131220340015056115b1@msapiro>
	<e373d31e0904172145q69685b17x76e8a20d1a63e040@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E98722.6060603@shub-internet.org>

on 4/17/09 11:45 PM, Phoenix Kiula said:

>> Yes. It's called "Full Personalization"
> 
> How can I enable it?
> 
> I went into the mailman in cpanel and did not find this setting in the
> "Non Digest" section.
> 
> Then I read the faq - http://www.list.org/faq.html - and there's no
> information on "full personalization".

The FAQ has been moved.  We need to clean up those old links.  The new 
location for the FAQ is 
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked+Questions>.  If you 
use the search function for "personalization", you should have the 
answer as it applies to the standard version of Mailman as we provide 
from <http://www.list.org/download.html>.

However, note that cPanel has made some changes to the code they ship. 
See FAQ 6.11 at <http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9> for more information.

> If cpanel uses an old version of mailman, or if it blocks the "full
> personalization" feature, how can I manually enable it in the config
> file or somethng?

That's really a question you need to be asking your service provider. 
They're the ones who installed cPanel, and they should have those 
answers for you.


I will tell you this -- I don't think you're going to handle anywhere 
remotely close to the number of users you're talking about with a cPanel 
installation.  If you want to get those levels of performance, you're 
going to need a more customized installation and you're going to need to 
have full privileged access to the server and the MTA, as well as full 
site admin access.

Either that, or a service provider who is willing and able to do all 
these things for you -- and anyone running cPanel is highly unlikely to 
fit into that picture.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From beta at admilon.net  Sat Apr 18 10:30:09 2009
From: beta at admilon.net (Matthias Schmidt)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:30:09 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive 3rd Party List
In-Reply-To: <49E8AEDA.7070501@ergotech.com>
References: <49E8AEDA.7070501@ergotech.com>
Message-ID: <20090418083009.1276232201@mail.admilon.net>

Am/On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:31:22 -0600 schrieb/wrote Jim Redman:

>I subscribe to a mailing list that has no archive capabilities.
>
>I don't really want to try to take over the list, but would like to 
>archive the messages as a service to other list users.
>
>Would it be possible to do this with Mailman?  Or does anyone have an 
>alternate system that may be better capable to do this?

besides that, what Brad suggested, I'd go with <www.nabble.com>,
<www.mail-archive.com> or some other free service for archiving.
I think the list owner has to be asked in any case.

cheers,
Matthias


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 18 19:38:46 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:38:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending bulk mail (400,000 users)
In-Reply-To: <e373d31e0904172145q69685b17x76e8a20d1a63e040@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009041810384608596f86bf89@msapiro>

Phoenix Kiula wrote:
>>
>> Yes. It's called "Full Personalization"
>
>
>How can I enable it?
>
>I went into the mailman in cpanel and did not find this setting in the
>"Non Digest" section.


If the setting isn't in the Non Digest section, the installation has
not allowed list owners to enable personalization. The installation
must allow this by putting

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py.

See the things Brad referred you to for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rclemings at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 19:39:26 2009
From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:39:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive 3rd Party List
Message-ID: <b79d6a850904181039h4ee81752s9b89f919ba6ef2b1@mail.gmail.com>

My solution was to set up MHonArc (http://www.mhonarc.org/), running under
its own user (e.g. mailarch), and then subscribe mailarch at mydomain.com to
the Mailman list(s) I wanted to archive. That (along with some lines in the
Apache configuration) allowed me to put them behind the same password wall
as our web site, and to do a lot of fancy formatting. If you (and the list
owner) don't care if the public has access to the archives, however, then
one of the solutions suggested below is probably easier. Either way, be sure
to turn off the monthly password reminders for the archive user so they
won't show up in the archives. And be sure nobody unsubscribes the archive
user.

rac

On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 3:00 AM, <mailman-users-request at python.org> wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Matthias Schmidt" <beta at admilon.net>
> To: "Jim Redman" <jredman at ergotech.com>, <mailman-users at python.org>
> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:30:09 +0900
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive 3rd Party List
> Am/On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:31:22 -0600 schrieb/wrote Jim Redman:
>
> >I subscribe to a mailing list that has no archive capabilities.
> >
> >I don't really want to try to take over the list, but would like to
> >archive the messages as a service to other list users.
> >
> >Would it be possible to do this with Mailman?  Or does anyone have an
> >alternate system that may be better capable to do this?
>
> besides that, what Brad suggested, I'd go with <www.nabble.com>,
> <www.mail-archive.com> or some other free service for archiving.
> I think the list owner has to be asked in any case.
>
> cheers,
> Matthias
>

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Sat Apr 18 20:15:57 2009
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:15:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending bulk mail (400,000 users)
In-Reply-To: <e373d31e0904172145q69685b17x76e8a20d1a63e040@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e373d31e0904110909h3faeba82k5cfda3f3b845fe6a@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1870200904131220340015056115b1@msapiro>
	<e373d31e0904172145q69685b17x76e8a20d1a63e040@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BFD1B6C4-E906-43EF-A355-D43BADD90962@goldmark.org>

On Apr 17, 2009, at 11:45 PM, Phoenix Kiula wrote:

> I went into the mailman in cpanel [...]

As others have pointed out, 400K addresses with full personalization  
is a big job that may well require some MTA tuning.  And a hosting  
service using cpanel is unlikely to be one that provides you with what  
you need. And it is also likely that some of the mailman tuning you  
need to do won't be available through cpanel.

The absolute first (well actually, second) thing you should do is talk  
to your hosting provider to see what they say about you sending to a  
list of 400K address with personalization.  Only after they say that  
they are okay with that, should you be asking about the mechanics of  
actually doing this.

And of course, the first thing that you need to do is make sure that  
you have evidence that each and every email address on that list is  
read by someone who how wants to be on that list.  That is, do you  
have a positive response to a confirmation request that was sent to  
each address?

Many of your earlier questions about proper SPF records and so on will  
depend on how your provider has set up mailman under cpanel.

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 18 20:19:24 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 11:19:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Operation not permitted
In-Reply-To: <49E8C123.7040007@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904181119240421dd9cf73d@msapiro>

Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
>I would like to know how to solve the problem below?
>
>Apr 17 14:31:36 2009 (18013) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 1] 
>Operation not permitted: 
>'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/cipg-l/index.html'
>Apr 17 14:31:36 2009 (18013) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
>    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 217, in 
>ArchiveMail
>    h.close()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 327, in close
>    self.write_TOC()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1094, in 
>write_TOC
>    toc = open(os.path.join(self.basedir, 'index.html'), 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted: 
>'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/cipg-l/index.html'
>
>Another detail, the directory is in shunt with 3000 files, the files can 
>delete this directory?


The above error occurs because Mailman doesn't have permission to write
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/cipg-l/index.html.

You need to run bin/check_perms -f as root to fix permissions, and even
that may not fix them all. If it looks like permissions are OK
(everything should be group 'mailman' and group writable and
directories should be SETGID), it may be a SELinux or other security
manager issue.

This error only affects archiving. Presumably the shunted messages are
the ones missing from the archive because of this error. Even though
this error occurs and prevents updating the html archive, the messages
are probably in the
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/cipg-l.mbox/cipg-l.mbox file, so the
easiest solution may be to first fix the permissions issue and then
with mailman stopped, run

  bin/arch --wipe cipg-l

as the 'mailman' user to rebuild the html archive. Then you could
remove the files from the shunt queue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 18 20:39:10 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 11:39:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails bounce when sent to join address
In-Reply-To: <1239984259.598.autosave.old.1239984582.9142@webmail.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090418113910010994a812b7@msapiro>

punit_j wrote:

>Hi ,I am integrating mailman with postfix. I have created new transport by name mailman :-mailman&nbsp;&nbsp; unix&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; n&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; n&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; pipe&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; flags=FR user=mailman:mailman argv=/usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py ${nexthop} ${user}Below is the script : -MailmanHome = "/usr/local/mailman"; # Mailman home directory.MailmanOwner = "listadminuser at test.com"; # Postmaster and abuse mail recipient.import sys, os, re, stringdef main():&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; os.nice(5)&nbsp; # Handle mailing lists at non-interactive priority.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; # delete this if you wish&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; os.chdir(MailmanHome + "/lists")&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; try:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; local = sys.argv[2]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; except:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp
> ; # This might happen if we're not using Postfix&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.stderr.write("LOCAL not set?\n")&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.exit(1)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; local = string.lower(local)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; local = re.sub("^mailman-","",local)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; names = ("root", "postmaster", "mailer-daemon", "mailman-owner", "owner", "abuse")&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; for i in names:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if i == local:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; os.execv("/usr/sbin/sendmail",&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("/usr/sbin/sendmail", MailmanOwner))&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.exit(0)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; type = "post"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; types = (("-admin$", "admin"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-owner$", "owner"),&nbsp;&
> nbsp;&nbsp; types = (("-admin$", "admin"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-owner$", "owner"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-request$", "request"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-bounces$", "bounces"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-confirm$", "confirm"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-join$", "join"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-leave$", "leave"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-subscribe$", "subscribe"),&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ("-unsubscribe$", "unsubscribe"))&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; for i in types:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if re.search(i[0],local):&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb
> sp; type = i[1]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; local = re.sub(i[0],"",local)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if os.path.exists(local):&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; os.execv(MailmanHome + "/mail/mailman",&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (MailmanHome + "/mail/mailman", type, local))&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; else:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bounce()&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.exit(75)def bounce():&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bounce_message = """\TO ACCESS THE MAILING LIST SYSTEM: Start your web browser onhttp://%s/That web page will help you subscribe or unsubscribe, and willgive you directions on how to post to each mailing list.\n"""&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.stderr.write(bounce_message % (sys.argv[1]))&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.exit(1)try:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.exit(main())except SystemExit, argument:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.exit(argument)except Exception, argument:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; info = sys.
> exc_info()&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; trace = info[2]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.stderr.write("%s %s\n" % (sys.exc_type, argument))&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.stderr.write("Line %d\n" % (trace.tb_lineno))&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sys.exit(75)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; # Soft failure, try again later.But when i send mail to testing-join at test.com ( a subscription mail to testing list ) , it bounces with following error : - &nbsp; The mail system&lt;testing-join at test.com&gt;: Command died with status 2:&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;"/usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py". Command output:&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;/usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py: line 2: MailmanHome: command&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;not found /usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py: line 3:&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;MailmanOwner: command not found&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;/usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py: line 61: import: command not&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;found /usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py: line 63: syntax error&nbsp;&n
> bsp; &nbsp;near unexpected token `(' /usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py:&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;line 63: `def main():'I am no python expert. can anyone direct me to what i am doing wrong ?Regards,Punit


The first thing you are doing wrong is posting unreadable messages to
this list.

Please, if you want our help, find a way to post a readable plain text
message. You are using an MUA that is composing an HTML message and
then doing a horrible job of "converting" the HTML to plain text for
the text/plain alternative of a multipart/alternative message. This
list's content filtering then removes all but the text/plain part
which has no line breaks and is littered with &nbsp;

We would like to help if we can, but we can't help if we can't read
your message.

Note, I do see the string "postfix-to-mailman.py" in the above.
postfix-to-mailman.py is not supported by the GNU Mailman project and
is generally not suitable in any case unless you have a dedicated
domain for your lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Sun Apr 19 20:54:04 2009
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (Bill Christensen)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:54:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive 3rd Party List
In-Reply-To: <49E8AEDA.7070501@ergotech.com>
References: <49E8AEDA.7070501@ergotech.com>
Message-ID: <a06230927c6112238e83e@[192.168.50.3]>

At 10:31 AM -0600 4/17/09, Jim Redman wrote:
>I subscribe to a mailing list that has no archive capabilities.
>
>I don't really want to try to take over the list, but would like to 
>archive the messages as a service to other list users.
>
>Would it be possible to do this with Mailman?  Or does anyone have 
>an alternate system that may be better capable to do this?
>

Create a Mailman list, subscribe the Mailman list address to the 
original list.  I don't think you even have to subscribe the original 
to Mailman (if you do, set it for No Mail to avoid infinite loops). 
You should be able to set Mailman to accept all mail from the 
original list.

It'll be automatically archived.



-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From shop at justbrits.com  Mon Apr 20 02:06:37 2009
From: shop at justbrits.com (Ed's Shop)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 19:06:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending bulk mail (400,000 users)
In-Reply-To: <BFD1B6C4-E906-43EF-A355-D43BADD90962@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <OLECLAFDGBNPEJPOHHIJIEFLDBAA.shop@justbrits.com>


On Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:16 PM, Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

On Apr 17, 2009, at 11:45 PM, Phoenix Kiula wrote:

> I went into the mailman in cpanel [...]

As others have pointed out, 400K addresses with full personalization
is a big job that may well require some MTA tuning.  And a hosting
service using cpanel is unlikely to be one that provides you with what
you need. And it is also likely that some of the mailman tuning you
need to do won't be available through cpanel.

The absolute first (well actually, second) thing you should do is talk
to your hosting provider to see what they say about you sending to a
list of 400K address with personalization.  Only after they say that
they are okay with that, should you be asking about the mechanics of
actually doing this.

And of course, the first thing that you need to do is make sure that
you have evidence that each and every email address on that list is
read by someone who how wants to be on that list.  That is, do you
have a positive response to a confirmation request that was sent to
each address?

Many of your earlier questions about proper SPF records and so on will
depend on how your provider has set up mailman under cpanel.

-j

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/
------------------------------------------------------
<<And a hosting service using cpanel is unlikely to be one that provides you
with what you need.>>

I would wager that 'if' Phoenix opted to upgrade their "hosting service"
to a Dedicated Service, they would be happy to do so given a LEGIT
Mailing List (as mentioned above).  Mine would. -:)

Of course there IS quite a jump in the Annual Dollar Amount.  LOL

Ed



From audit at c2security.org  Tue Apr 21 04:02:11 2009
From: audit at c2security.org (audit)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:02:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to insert google-analytics.com in mailman
	archives
Message-ID: <20090420215833.U21695@flatlined.c2security.org>

I'm trying to inset google-analytics.com in mailman archives and when I 
use the normal new coding to insert in the templates, it gives me strange 
script errors when I view the pages after running bin/arch listname

If I run the old code then it works fine but I was just reading that the 
old code may not show the correct stats.

Is there a way to insert the code into a html file and then call it from 
the templates?

I have my phpads showing just fine with the script code so I don't 
understand why the google code won't work when I add that.

Thanks


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 21 05:06:57 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:06:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to insert google-analytics.com in
	mailmanarchives
In-Reply-To: <20090420215833.U21695@flatlined.c2security.org>
Message-ID: <PC187020090420200657025075732873@msapiro>

audit wrote:

>I'm trying to inset google-analytics.com in mailman archives and when I 
>use the normal new coding to insert in the templates, it gives me strange 
>script errors when I view the pages after running bin/arch listname


You should be able to insert the javascript into the templates
archtoc.html, archtocnombox.html, archidxhead.html and article.html
and have it work?

What errors do you get?

What do you see if you view the raw source of the page or if you view
the .html files in the archive?


>If I run the old code then it works fine but I was just reading that the 
>old code may not show the correct stats.


Do you know the new code works? Maybe it's not compatible with your
browser?


>Is there a way to insert the code into a html file and then call it from 
>the templates?


You could reference the script via a <script type="text/javascript"
src="whatever"> tag which you put in the template.


>I have my phpads showing just fine with the script code so I don't 
>understand why the google code won't work when I add that.


Templates have values interpolated into them. I.e. strings like
%(name)s, etc. get replaced by the value of 'name'. This means in
particular that if you want to put a literal '%' character in a
template, you have to double it ('%%'). Is this the problem?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From audit at c2security.org  Tue Apr 21 13:58:48 2009
From: audit at c2security.org (audit)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:58:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to insert google-analytics.com in
	mailmanarchives
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090420200657025075732873@msapiro>
References: <PC187020090420200657025075732873@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090421074915.D29339@flatlined.c2security.org>

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> audit wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to inset google-analytics.com in mailman archives and when I
>> use the normal new coding to insert in the templates, it gives me strange
>> script errors when I view the pages after running bin/arch listname
>
>
> You should be able to insert the javascript into the templates
> archtoc.html, archtocnombox.html, archidxhead.html and article.html
> and have it work?
>
> What errors do you get?

This is the error that I get when I view the date and article for that 
date after I put the following code into the article.html file

%(encoding)s %(prev)s %(next)s
%(subject_html)s
%(author_html)s %(email_html)s
%(datestr_html)s

     * %(prev_wsubj)s %(next_wsubj)s Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread 
] [ subject ] [ author ]

%(body)s

     * %(prev_wsubj)s %(next_wsubj)s Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread 
] [ subject ] [ author ]

More information about the %(listname)s mailing list

Can be seen at 
http://www.dataoutages.com/pipermail/bb-dev/2009-March/000006.html for the 
next couple hours before I remove the newer code and revert back to the 
old code in hopes that someone can see this and understand what I'm doing 
wrong. You can also see the phpads code in the source and what code is 
being used for that. It's working fine.


>
> What do you see if you view the raw source of the page or if you view
> the .html files in the archive?

Everything looks normal when I view the page source code.

>
>
>> If I run the old code then it works fine but I was just reading that the
>> old code may not show the correct stats.
>
>
> Do you know the new code works? Maybe it's not compatible with your
> browser?
>
>

Google recommends getting away from the old Legacy Tracking code 
(urchine.js) and going with the new code (ga.js)


This code works but doesn't track.

<script src="http://www.google-analytics.com/urchin.js" 
type="text/javascript">
</script>
<script type="text/javascript">
try {
_uacct = "UA-548858-10";
urchinTracker();
} catch(err) {}</script>


This is the code I'm trying to use but get the above errors with.

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." 
: "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + 
"google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>
<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-548858-10");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>



Thanks
audit


>
>> I have my phpads showing just fine with the script code so I don't
>> understand why the google code won't work when I add that.
>
>
> Templates have values interpolated into them. I.e. strings like
> %(name)s, etc. get replaced by the value of 'name'. This means in
> particular that if you want to put a literal '%' character in a
> template, you have to double it ('%%'). Is this the problem?
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From audit at c2security.org  Tue Apr 21 14:28:40 2009
From: audit at c2security.org (audit)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 08:28:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to insert google-analytics.com in
	mailmanarchives
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090420200657025075732873@msapiro>
References: <PC187020090420200657025075732873@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090421082614.E29814@flatlined.c2security.org>

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> audit wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to insert the code into a html file and then call it from
>> the templates?
>
>
> You could reference the script via a <script type="text/javascript"
> src="whatever"> tag which you put in the template.
>

I've put this code in

<!-- google -->
<script type="text/javascript" src="googleanalytics.html">
<!-- end google -->

with the code for my google-analytics.com in the googleanalytics.html 
templates/en directory. So far all pages are loading fine but I'm curious 
as to if it's going to call the info from that .html file and update my 
stats.

Do you see any problem with this?


>
>> I have my phpads showing just fine with the script code so I don't
>> understand why the google code won't work when I add that.
>
>
> Templates have values interpolated into them. I.e. strings like
> %(name)s, etc. get replaced by the value of 'name'. This means in
> particular that if you want to put a literal '%' character in a
> template, you have to double it ('%%'). Is this the problem?
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 21 18:44:10 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:44:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to insert google-analytics.com in
	mailmanarchives
In-Reply-To: <20090421074915.D29339@flatlined.c2security.org>
Message-ID: <PC18702009042109441003599976ce71@msapiro>

audit wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> What errors do you get?
>
>This is the error that I get when I view the date and article for that 
>date after I put the following code into the article.html file
>
>%(encoding)s %(prev)s %(next)s
>%(subject_html)s
>%(author_html)s %(email_html)s
>%(datestr_html)s


Interpolation into the template is failing. See below.

[...]
>This is the code I'm trying to use but get the above errors with.
>
><script type="text/javascript">
>var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." 
>: "http://www.");
>document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + 
>"google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
></script>
><script type="text/javascript">
>try {
>var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-548858-10");
>pageTracker._trackPageview();
>} catch(err) {}</script>


[...]
>> Templates have values interpolated into them. I.e. strings like
>> %(name)s, etc. get replaced by the value of 'name'. This means in
>> particular that if you want to put a literal '%' character in a
>> template, you have to double it ('%%'). Is this the problem?



This says you need to double every '%' in the above code when adding it
to the template as in


document.write(unescape("%%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost +
"google-analytics.com/ga.js'
type='text/javascript'%%3E%%3C/script%%3E"));


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 21 18:50:15 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:50:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to insert google-analytics.com in
	mailmanarchives
In-Reply-To: <20090421082614.E29814@flatlined.c2security.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904210950150312c13b6f07@msapiro>

audit wrote:
>
>I've put this code in
>
><!-- google -->
><script type="text/javascript" src="googleanalytics.html">
><!-- end google -->
>
>with the code for my google-analytics.com in the googleanalytics.html 
>templates/en directory. So far all pages are loading fine but I'm curious 
>as to if it's going to call the info from that .html file and update my 
>stats.
>
>Do you see any problem with this?


Yes. The pages that will ultimately be served from the archive will not
be in the templates/en/ directory, so the relative reference to
src="googleanalytics.html" won't work. It needs to be absolute, and
then some browsers may warn the user about this.

You can put the code directly in the templates if you double the '%'
characters.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From audit at c2security.org  Tue Apr 21 19:29:10 2009
From: audit at c2security.org (audit)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:29:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to insert google-analytics.com in
	mailmanarchives
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009042109441003599976ce71@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009042109441003599976ce71@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090421132820.B55118@flatlined.c2security.org>

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> audit wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>> What errors do you get?
>>
>> This is the error that I get when I view the date and article for that
>> date after I put the following code into the article.html file
>>
>> %(encoding)s %(prev)s %(next)s
>> %(subject_html)s
>> %(author_html)s %(email_html)s
>> %(datestr_html)s
>
>
> Interpolation into the template is failing. See below.
>
> [...]
>> This is the code I'm trying to use but get the above errors with.
>>
>> <script type="text/javascript">
>> var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl."
>> : "http://www.");
>> document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost +
>> "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
>> </script>
>> <script type="text/javascript">
>> try {
>> var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-548858-10");
>> pageTracker._trackPageview();
>> } catch(err) {}</script>
>
>
> [...]
>>> Templates have values interpolated into them. I.e. strings like
>>> %(name)s, etc. get replaced by the value of 'name'. This means in
>>> particular that if you want to put a literal '%' character in a
>>> template, you have to double it ('%%'). Is this the problem?
>
>
>
> This says you need to double every '%' in the above code when adding it
> to the template as in
>
>
> document.write(unescape("%%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost +
> "google-analytics.com/ga.js'
> type='text/javascript'%%3E%%3C/script%%3E"));
>

I tried that and got the same errors as before. I'm just giving up on that 
idea for now until I can work out something better.

Thanks for the help though.


>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 21 20:49:39 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:49:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to insert google-analytics.com in
	mailmanarchives
In-Reply-To: <20090421132820.B55118@flatlined.c2security.org>
Message-ID: <PC187020090421114939021868af2401@msapiro>

audit wrote:

>On Tue, 21 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> audit wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is the error that I get when I view the date and article for that
>>> date after I put the following code into the article.html file
>>>
>>> %(encoding)s %(prev)s %(next)s
>>> %(subject_html)s
>>> %(author_html)s %(email_html)s
>>> %(datestr_html)s
[...]
>>
>> This says you need to double every '%' in the above code when adding it
>> to the template as in
>>
>>
>> document.write(unescape("%%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost +
>> "google-analytics.com/ga.js'
>> type='text/javascript'%%3E%%3C/script%%3E"));
>>
>
>I tried that and got the same errors as before. I'm just giving up on that 
>idea for now until I can work out something better.


If you are seeing uninterpolated substitutions in the resultant .html
files, somewhere in what you added to the template(s) there is an
undoubled '%'.

If you post a non-working template on a pastebin somewhere, I'll look
at it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From audit at c2security.org  Wed Apr 22 01:47:47 2009
From: audit at c2security.org (audit)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:47:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to insert google-analytics.com in
	mailmanarchives
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090421114939021868af2401@msapiro>
References: <PC187020090421114939021868af2401@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090421194555.I63012@flatlined.c2security.org>

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> audit wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>> audit wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is the error that I get when I view the date and article for that
>>>> date after I put the following code into the article.html file
>>>>
>>>> %(encoding)s %(prev)s %(next)s
>>>> %(subject_html)s
>>>> %(author_html)s %(email_html)s
>>>> %(datestr_html)s
> [...]
>>>
>>> This says you need to double every '%' in the above code when adding it
>>> to the template as in
>>>
>>>
>>> document.write(unescape("%%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost +
>>> "google-analytics.com/ga.js'
>>> type='text/javascript'%%3E%%3C/script%%3E"));
>>>
>>
>> I tried that and got the same errors as before. I'm just giving up on that
>> idea for now until I can work out something better.
>
>
> If you are seeing uninterpolated substitutions in the resultant .html
> files, somewhere in what you added to the template(s) there is an
> undoubled '%'.
>
> If you post a non-working template on a pastebin somewhere, I'll look
> at it.
>

I'm ran through the code again to double check it all and then also adding 
statcounter in for comparison. So far it looks good so Might've missed 
something that my daughter picked up. I'll know in the morning since it 
seems google doesn't update their stats in real time

thanks again for your help.

John

> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From david1983xtc at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 16:28:11 2009
From: david1983xtc at gmail.com (David Fernandez Lopez)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:28:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix issue
Message-ID: <23673fe10904210728i6fa5e119pb76e177e196330@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!

I'm trying to configure mailman+postix in a debian machine and I found some
problems...
It seems that postfix don't know how to pipe emails to correct location
(mailman) and is trying to deliver the message to a mailbox that do not
exists

Apr 21 16:19:44 davos postfix/virtual[17439]: 929404A7FE: to=<
test at davos.web83.es>, relay=virtual, delay=63369, delays=63369/0.02/0/0.02,
dsn=4.2.0, status=deferred (delivery failed to mailbox
/var/mail/vmail/"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test": unable to create
lock file /var/mail/vmail/"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test".lock:
No such file or directory)

Any idea? What logs do you need to see my configuration?

thanks in advance!!

-- 
Backup not found: (A)bort, (R)etry, (S)uicide?

David Fernandez Lopez

From donna at brainvis.wustl.edu  Tue Apr 21 17:59:11 2009
From: donna at brainvis.wustl.edu (Donna Dierker)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:59:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Want posts from mylist to mylist to be held
Message-ID: <49EDED4F.4090309@brainvis.wustl.edu>

Hi mailman experts,

My mailman list 'mylist' has non-member posts set to be rejected.  This
has done an excellent job of preventing spam in the past.

Recently, a spam message was successfully posted to mylist.  The "From"
field showed mylist at myserver.edu (i.e., the same address that one uses
when posting *to* mylist).  Looking in the list of subscribers, I don't
see 'mylist' as a member.  And typically posts do not come from the
list; rather, they are just posted *to* the list *from* an individual
subscriber's email address.

Why aren't posts *from* mylist at myserver.edu being rejected, since
mylist at myserver.edu is a non-member from the point of view of the list?

I thought about putting From: mylist at myserver.edu in the spam filter,
and setting the action to Hold; however, I don't want a message being
sent to everyone on mylist every time a spam message gets held for
moderator approval.  I do, however, want these messages held, so I can
inspect them.  (Or at least a copy emailed to me, the list moderator,
before the message is discarded.)

Thanks,

Donna


From gelsner at juno.com  Sat Apr 18 17:08:29 2009
From: gelsner at juno.com (Gary Elsner)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:08:29 GMT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting Password reminder  problem
Message-ID: <20090418.100829.5719.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>

I have 2 mail lists and in General Options set both lists to NO on "Sending monthly password reminders".  All new subscribers are still set to YES when they join.  

The mailman is provided by my host company and lists are managed through cPanel.  The hosting company was able to replicate the issue.

It is Mailman version 2.1.10


Gary 
gelsner at juno.com

____________________________________________________________
Always a good call. Click now to establish your local phone service!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTHbDiaO2fMfcBikU7uzprAPtog78siaXnscyNuXRfnEsRzYXt2f0s/

From jacuesta at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 17:23:16 2009
From: jacuesta at gmail.com (Juan Antonio Cuesta)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:23:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cluster of postfix
Message-ID: <232eebf50904180823j46503672u2fb67a11ba2adfb5@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

i used the NFS shared files. A day the Nas Server crashed and my smtp
servers could not work normaly. I had the conf files and the all db
files.

Thank you.



Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:19:40 +0200
From: Melvyn Sopacua <mdev at dnr.servegame.org>
Subject: Re: Cluster of postfix

On Friday 17 April 2009 18:16:01 Victor Duchovni wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 06:11:24PM +0200, Melvyn Sopacua wrote:
> > > Mailbox files, on the other hand, are usually overwritten, and they
> > > are updated in place.  This almost works reliably, especially if
> > > you use dotlock files and turn off NFS attribute caching.
> >
> > And I was talking about OP's case of sharing configuration files. I do a
> > lot more with nfs, where multiple machines can write to the same file. As
> > long as I do it in sequence, the other ones will see the changes. Two
> > people editing the same file falls into shooting yourself in the foot
> > category and is not specific to NFS or even two different machines.
>
> It is IMHO much more sensible to push config files from a central machine
> where the configs are kept under revision control in CVS, SVN, ... than
> to share configs (and indexed tables) via NFS.

I'm looking to save work, not add more or replace one with the other. Plus I
have ZFS snapshots [1]. Either way, as long as I keep bdb libraries in sync on
the machines, my initial tests show this is working as I expected. Now I'll
just sit and wait for the corner cases where it won't work, but can't think of
any. ;)

[1] http://people.freebsd.org/~pjd/misc/zfs/zfs_snapshot.swf
- --
Melvyn Sopacua

From radim.roska at iaeste.cz  Mon Apr 20 11:24:21 2009
From: radim.roska at iaeste.cz (Radim Roska, IAESTE CVUT)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:24:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem mailman 2.1.10
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009041709561902032154989e@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009041709561902032154989e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49EC3F45.30803@iaeste.cz>

Thanks for answer ;)

You are right...it was selected that that user does not want to receive 
mails...very strange since users cannot configure anything...but 
whatever..its ok now :)

Thanks :)
Radim

On 04/17/2009 06:56 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Radim Roska, IAESTE CVUT wrote:
>    
>> I've got strange problem. It looks mailman does not send mails to all
>> list members.
>>
>> My mailman is 2.1.10 with modinc-2.1.9-0.1.patch and
>> mhonarc-2.1.9-0.1.patch
>> patches...
>>
>> # list_members mail-list | wc -l
>>
>> 45
>>      
>
>
> And what do you get from
>
> # list_members --regular --nomail=enabled mail-list | wc -l
>
>
>
>    
>> log in mailman:
>>
>> Apr 17 00:46:18 2009 (5109)<49E7B53F.8050501 at domain.tld>  smtp to
>> mail-list for 43 recips, completed in 0.081 seconds
>>      
>
>
> If the number of regular members with delivery enabled (at the time of
> the post) is>  43, the reasons for non-delivery to a member could be
>
> - The poster has selected the option to not receive her own posts.
>
> - One or more list members was directly addressed in the To: or Cc: of
>    the post and has selected the option to not receive duplicates from
>    the list.
>
>    

-- 
Radim Roska
___________________________________________________
IAESTE CVUT Praha
Technicka 4, CZ-166 07 Praha 6 - Dejvice

TEL: +420 224 352 659 | http://www.cvut.iaeste.cz
FAX: +420 224 352 635 | http://www.iKariera.cz
GSM: +420 737 541 447 | radim.roska at iaeste.cz
___________________________________________________
iKariera.cz - students recruitment portal


From rob.macgregor at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 19:16:23 2009
From: rob.macgregor at gmail.com (Rob MacGregor)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:16:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails bounce when sent to join address
In-Reply-To: <1239984259.598.autosave.old.1239984582.9142@webmail.rediffmail.com>
References: <1239984259.598.autosave.old.1239984582.9142@webmail.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <43ea8d070904181016i2e3ee6e2xe6805ffa62ea43a5@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 17:09, punit_j <punit_j at rediffmail.com> wrote:
> Hi ,I am integrating mailman with postfix. I have created new transport by name mailman :-mailman&nbsp;&nbsp; unix&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; n&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

If you can't persuade your webmail interface to send only in plain
text then I suspect you'll get little help from the list.  Your
messages are impossible to understand, as Mark has already said.

-- 
                 Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
      Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
        doesn't become a monster.                  Friedrich Nietzsche

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 22 08:14:38 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 01:14:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cluster of postfix
In-Reply-To: <232eebf50904180823j46503672u2fb67a11ba2adfb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <232eebf50904180823j46503672u2fb67a11ba2adfb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EEB5CE.4090209@shub-internet.org>

on 4/18/09 10:23 AM, Juan Antonio Cuesta said:

> i used the NFS shared files. A day the Nas Server crashed and my smtp
> servers could not work normaly. I had the conf files and the all db
> files.

I think you sent this to the wrong list.  The message you are responding 
to appears more likely to have been on the postfix-users mailing list.

I have a great deal of respect for what Victor Duchovni has to say about 
postfix, but so far as I know he is not a subscriber to this list, and I 
don't recall seeing any such discussion recently on this list.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From rsk at gsp.org  Wed Apr 22 12:59:07 2009
From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 06:59:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending bulk mail (400,000 users)
In-Reply-To: <e373d31e0904110908o37c01e3cu6ef6c3a7bc3e7e32@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e373d31e0904110908o37c01e3cu6ef6c3a7bc3e7e32@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090422105907.GA17628@gsp.org>

On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 09:38:05PM +0530, Phoenix Kiula wrote:
> Hi. I need to send annoucements to a large opt-in list.
> 
> Having never done this before [...]

Since you've never done this before, and you mention that the list
has 400K users, I urge extreme caution.  Unless you/your operation
have explicitly requested and explicitly received permission from
all 400K users to send them bulk email, then you should not do so.
Note that permission is NOT transferable: a user who has given permission
to A to receive bulk email from A has not given that same permission to B.
Permission cannot be bought, sold, traded, presumed or inferred: and
the sending of bulk email without permission is called "spamming".

For further explanation, please see:

	http://www.spamhaus.org/faq/answers.lasso?section=Marketing%20FAQs

---Rsk

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 22 16:04:06 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 07:04:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix issue
In-Reply-To: <23673fe10904210728i6fa5e119pb76e177e196330@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904220704060718bb6b6194@msapiro>

David Fernandez Lopez wrote:
>
>I'm trying to configure mailman+postix in a debian machine and I found some
>problems...
>It seems that postfix don't know how to pipe emails to correct location
>(mailman) and is trying to deliver the message to a mailbox that do not
>exists
>
>Apr 21 16:19:44 davos postfix/virtual[17439]: 929404A7FE: to=<
>test at davos.web83.es>, relay=virtual, delay=63369, delays=63369/0.02/0/0.02,
>dsn=4.2.0, status=deferred (delivery failed to mailbox
>/var/mail/vmail/"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test": unable to create
>lock file /var/mail/vmail/"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test".lock:
>No such file or directory)
>
>Any idea? What logs do you need to see my configuration?


It looks like your postfix configuration is incorrect. You are using
"virtual" delivery instead of "local" delivery for this mail.

This is a Postfix configuration issue, not a Mailman issue per se, but
if you post the output of "postconf -n", someone here may be able to
help you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 22 16:23:11 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 07:23:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Want posts from mylist to mylist to be held
In-Reply-To: <49EDED4F.4090309@brainvis.wustl.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904220723110765b3bb8988@msapiro>

Donna Dierker wrote:
>
>Recently, a spam message was successfully posted to mylist.  The "From"
>field showed mylist at myserver.edu (i.e., the same address that one uses
>when posting *to* mylist).  Looking in the list of subscribers, I don't
>see 'mylist' as a member.  And typically posts do not come from the
>list; rather, they are just posted *to* the list *from* an individual
>subscriber's email address.
>
>Why aren't posts *from* mylist at myserver.edu being rejected, since
>mylist at myserver.edu is a non-member from the point of view of the list?


They should be. It may be too late to find why this one was accepted,
but if you have access, you can find the post in the
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file and see some of the
original headers.

A post is considered to be from a list member if any of From:,
Reply-To: or Sender: or the envelope sender is a list member.

It is also possible, although not likely, that the spammer knows the
list admin or moderator password and put an "Approved: password"
header in the post, but if this was done, the evidence will be gone.


>I thought about putting From: mylist at myserver.edu in the spam filter,
>and setting the action to Hold; however, I don't want a message being
>sent to everyone on mylist every time a spam message gets held for
>moderator approval.  I do, however, want these messages held, so I can
>inspect them.  (Or at least a copy emailed to me, the list moderator,
>before the message is discarded.)


This is difficult. You could use header_filter_rules to discard the
message, but then you won't see it even with forward_auto_discards
true because that applies only to moderated and non-member auto
discards.

If you hold the message, the notice to the sender, even if to the list,
should not be accepted as it is from LISTNAME-bounces, but if you want
to be really sure, you could set respond_to_post_requests to No so
there is no held notice back to the poster.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 22 16:34:55 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 07:34:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting Password reminder  problem
In-Reply-To: <20090418.100829.5719.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090422073455009321d1c094@msapiro>

Gary Elsner wrote:

>I have 2 mail lists and in General Options set both lists to NO on "Sending monthly password reminders".  All new subscribers are still set to YES when they join.  


These are two different settings. If the list's "Send monthly password
reminders? (send_reminders)" is No, monthly reminders will not be sent
regardless of the user setting. The user's setting allows a user to
opt out if send_reminders is yes, but does not allow opting in is
send_reminders is no.

The default for new members for the reminder option is one of the
new_member_options bits, but it is not one that's available through
the web admin interface. It can only be set to No by turning on the 32
bit in the lists new_member_options attribute via bin/withlist or
bin/config_list, but as noted above, this is unnecessary, as setting
"Send monthly password reminders? (send_reminders)" to No says no
monthly reminders are sent regardless of user settings.
	

>The mailman is provided by my host company and lists are managed through cPanel.  The hosting company was able to replicate the issue.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at anl.gov  Wed Apr 22 17:16:59 2009
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 10:16:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.12 - Python 2.4.[456]
	incompatibility
Message-ID: <20090422151700.04C0D175A0@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:52:05 Mark Sapiro wrote:

>There is an internal inconsistency in the 3.0.2 email package that
>shipped with Python 2.4.4 through 2.4.6. This has to do with the
>Charset.Charset() constructor setting input_charset to a unicode which
>then causes TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported exceptions in
>other parts of the email package. This problem does not seem to occur
>with email 3.0.1 and Python 2.4.[123].
>
>This (along with other stuff) is discussed in the bug report at
><https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/328353> and there is a patch
>for email/Charset.py at
><http://launchpadlibrarian.net/23670138/Charset.py.patch>
>
>At this point, the best advice seems to be use Python 2.5 or 2.6 with
>Mailman 2.1.12.

The patch is to module Charset.py.  I was looking for that in my
2.1.12 directories, and I cannot find it.  In comparing my 2.1.11
directories with my 2.1.12 directories I find the "problem".
These directories are where I built my Ubuntu packages from the
SourceForge source.

In
     build_mailman_2.1.11/mailman-2.1.11/misc/Makefile.in

I have

     EMAILPKG=       email-2.5.8
     JACODECSPKG=    JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11
     KOCODECSPKG=    KoreanCodecs-2.0.5

and I have the same in Makefile.in . But in

     build_mailman_2.1.12/mailman-2.1.12/misc/Makefile.in

I have

     EMAILPKG=       @EMAILPKG@
     JACODECSPKG=    JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11
     KOCODECSPKG=    KoreanCodecs-2.0.5

and in Makefile.in

     EMAILPKG=       
     JACODECSPKG=    JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11
     KOCODECSPKG=    KoreanCodecs-2.0.5

As a result, I have in the misc directory for 2.1.12

     email-2.5.8.tar.gz

and that tarball was not untarred, so I do not have Charset.py .
In the build process output for 2.1.11 I see

     for p in email-2.5.8 JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11 KoreanCodecs-2.0.5; \
             do \
                 gunzip -c ./$p.tar.gz | (cd . ; tar xf -); \
                 ...

and for 2.1.12 I see

     for p in  JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11 KoreanCodecs-2.0.5; \
             do \
                 gunzip -c ./$p.tar.gz | (cd . ; tar xf -); \
                 ...

In the 2.1.12 configure I see

# Should we rely on Python's own email package or use the pre-packaged version?

     if test "$needemailpkg" = "ok"
     then
	 EMAILPKG=""
     else
	 EMAILPKG=email-2.5.8
     fi
     echo "$as_me:$LINENO: result: $needemailpkg" >&5
     echo "${ECHO_T}$needemailpkg" >&6

and in the build output I see

     checking Python version... 2.4.3
     checking Python's email package... ok

I am confused.  Is the 2.1.12 build using the Python-supplied e-mail
library, and thus the patch to Charset.py has to be made there?
Or do I have to specify something to get the Mailman-supplied
e-mail package untarred?  Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 23 04:20:28 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:20:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.12 - Python 2.4.[456]incompatibility
In-Reply-To: <20090422151700.04C0D175A0@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC187020090422192028000097e446dc@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:52:05 Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>There is an internal inconsistency in the 3.0.2 email package that
>>shipped with Python 2.4.4 through 2.4.6. This has to do with the
>>Charset.Charset() constructor setting input_charset to a unicode which
>>then causes TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported exceptions in
>>other parts of the email package. This problem does not seem to occur
>>with email 3.0.1 and Python 2.4.[123].
>>
>>This (along with other stuff) is discussed in the bug report at
>><https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/328353> and there is a patch
>>for email/Charset.py at
>><http://launchpadlibrarian.net/23670138/Charset.py.patch>
>>
>>At this point, the best advice seems to be use Python 2.5 or 2.6 with
>>Mailman 2.1.12.
>
>The patch is to module Charset.py.  I was looking for that in my
>2.1.12 directories, and I cannot find it.  In comparing my 2.1.11
>directories with my 2.1.12 directories I find the "problem".
>These directories are where I built my Ubuntu packages from the
>SourceForge source.


Charset.py is not a Mailman module; it is a Python email module.

In 2.1.11, we actually install email 2.5.8 in Mailman's pythonlib.
Beginning in 2.1.12, we import email during configure, and if it is
new enough, we do not install email 2.5.8 in pythonlib.

This is where the problem arises. If you have a python installed that
includes email 3.0.2 (python 2.4.4 - 2.4.6), we will accept that, and
it is that email library that has the inconsistency.


[various observations snipped]
>
>I am confused.  Is the 2.1.12 build using the Python-supplied e-mail
>library, and thus the patch to Charset.py has to be made there?


Yes. That's exactly the issue.


>Or do I have to specify something to get the Mailman-supplied
>e-mail package untarred?  Thanks.


That would be another approach. After running ./configure and before
running any make commands, you could edit misc/Makefile to replace the
line

     EMAILPKG=

with

     EMAILPKG=       email-2.5.8

to install email 2.5.8 in Mailman's pythonlib. Then you wouldn't need
to patch anything. But, how this fits with the Ubuntu package, I don't
know.

Note that the only Charset.py that needs patching is the one from email
3.0.2 which shipped only with Python 2.4.4 through python 2.4.6

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Clyde.Stephens at mts.com  Thu Apr 23 16:50:40 2009
From: Clyde.Stephens at mts.com (Stephens, Clyde)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:50:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving
Message-ID: <072721CD2D9884428731985B9FA9CB03409FA80E@mspexmb1.go.mts.com>

How do change the number of Archive files that are kept?  Currently only the last 5 months are being kept on our system.

Thanks

Clyde Stephens


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 23 17:24:05 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 08:24:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving
In-Reply-To: <072721CD2D9884428731985B9FA9CB03409FA80E@mspexmb1.go.mts.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904230824050437c87c26fa@msapiro>

Stephens, Clyde wrote:

>How do change the number of Archive files that are kept?  Currently only the last 5 months are being kept on our system.


Removal of older archives is not a Mailman feature. This is most likely
being done by some shell script which runs periodically (via cron?)
and removes the older files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at anl.gov  Thu Apr 23 23:03:42 2009
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:03:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.12 - Python 2.4.[456]incompatibility
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net>'
	dated: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:20:28 -0700
Message-ID: <20090423210342.4CF2E175EF@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

I wrote, in part:
>>Or do I have to specify something to get the Mailman-supplied
>>e-mail package untarred?  Thanks.

and Mark Sapiro replied:
>That would be another approach. After running ./configure and before
>running any make commands, you could edit misc/Makefile to replace the
>line
>
>     EMAILPKG=
>
>with
>
>     EMAILPKG=       email-2.5.8
>
>to install email 2.5.8 in Mailman's pythonlib. Then you wouldn't need
>to patch anything. But, how this fits with the Ubuntu package, I don't
>know.
>
>Note that the only Charset.py that needs patching is the one from email
>3.0.2 which shipped only with Python 2.4.4 through python 2.4.6

My Python version is 2.4.3, and I ran a modified conftest.py program
from the configure script to determine that the email package is 3.0.1.
I could not determine the package  version number from looking at the
.py modules in /usr/lib/python2.4/email on my Ubuntu Mailman machine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 23 23:29:38 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:29:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.12 - Python 2.4.[456]incompatibility
In-Reply-To: <20090423210342.4CF2E175EF@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC187020090423142938057853ac02a8@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>My Python version is 2.4.3, and I ran a modified conftest.py program
>from the configure script to determine that the email package is 3.0.1.
>I could not determine the package  version number from looking at the
>.py modules in /usr/lib/python2.4/email on my Ubuntu Mailman machine.


A normal ./configure, make install of Mailman 2.1.12 should work with
Python 2.4.3/email 3.0.1 without any additional patches.

There are at least two ways to directly determine the email package
version in a Python installation:

[mark at sbh16 ~]$ grep version /usr/lib/python2.4/email/__init__.py
__version__ = '3.0.1'
[mark at sbh16 ~]$ python
Python 2.4.3 (#1, Mar 14 2007, 18:51:08)
[GCC 4.1.1 20070105 (Red Hat 4.1.1-52)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import email
>>> email.__version__
'3.0.1'
>>>
[mark at sbh16 ~]$

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jbernier at risd.edu  Fri Apr 24 16:22:03 2009
From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:22:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail to non-existing list
Message-ID: <s9f192dd.065@risd.edu>

Hello all,
 
If someone posts a message to a list that does not exist in my Mailman system, the message goes to the pending moderator requests queue, and the sender gets a notice indicating their message is being held for moderator approval with the reason: "Message has implicit destination"
 
My questions are... Why is it being held if the list does not exist? Can I alter the behavior of Mailman to discard the message instead?
 
Thanks,
Jeff


From jbernier at risd.edu  Fri Apr 24 16:26:40 2009
From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:26:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  mail to non-existing list - Part two
Message-ID: <s9f193ec.088@risd.edu>

Sorry... I just wish to clarify... the message gets put in the moderator request queue in my "Mailman" list.
 
Hello all,

If someone posts a message to a list that does not exist in my Mailman system, the message goes to the pending moderator requests queue, and the sender gets a notice indicating their message is being held for moderator approval with the reason: "Message has implicit destination"

My questions are... Why is it being held if the list does not exist? Can I alter the behavior of Mailman to discard the message instead?

Thanks,
Jeff

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users 
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail ( http://www.mail/ )-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jbernier%40risd.edu 

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 24 16:32:23 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:32:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail to non-existing list - Part two
In-Reply-To: <s9f193ec.088@risd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC18702009042407322305628b889549@msapiro>

Jeff Bernier wrote:

>Sorry... I just wish to clarify... the message gets put in the moderator request queue in my "Mailman" list.


So your MTA or other Mailman delivery process is delivering mail to
NONEXISTENTLIST at example.com as if it were addressed to
mailman at example.com.

You have to examine this process to see why.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jbernier at risd.edu  Fri Apr 24 16:34:01 2009
From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:34:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail to non-existing list - Part two
Message-ID: <s9f1959f.028@risd.edu>

I have tested this by just making up names on-the-fly like nolist, or xyzlist, and get this result every time.

>>> Donna Dierker <donna at brainvis.wustl.edu> 4/24/2009 10:29 AM >>>
To get a message like that, the list must exist one *some* system -- 
perhaps not the one you think.

I would go to the mail server (e.g., if the list is mylist at myserver.edu, 
then ssh onto myserver.edu) and check the contents of /etc/aliases.  See 
who mylist at myserver.edu is aliased to.

On 04/24/2009 09:26 AM, Jeff Bernier wrote:
> Sorry... I just wish to clarify... the message gets put in the moderator request queue in my "Mailman" list.
>  
> Hello all,
>
> If someone posts a message to a list that does not exist in my Mailman system, the message goes to the pending moderator requests queue, and the sender gets a notice indicating their message is being held for moderator approval with the reason: "Message has implicit destination"
>
> My questions are... Why is it being held if the list does not exist? Can I alter the behavior of Mailman to discard the message instead?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users 
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail ( http://www.mail/ ) ( http://www.mail/ )-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/ 
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jbernier at risd.edu 
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users 
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail ( http://www.mail/ )-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/ 
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/donna at brainvis.wustl.edu 
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 
>   


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 24 16:43:01 2009
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:43:01 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscription problem!!
Message-ID: <COL105-W506BB7CB4C001EE730BE67FB720@phx.gbl>


hello,

 

I'm recieving many messages from members in my lists that they have stopped recieving emails without requesting to be removed from the lists! when I check the daily backups I find out that their addresses does exist in old backups but disappear at some point ..

 

I suspect my bounce settings.. it's set as follows:

 

- The maximum member bounce score before the member's subscription is disabled : 5.0

 

- The number of days after which a member's bounce information is discarded, if no new bounces have been received in the interim:7

 

- How many Your Membership Is Disabled warnings a disabled member should get before their address is removed from the mailing list. Set to 0 to immediately remove an address from the list once their bounce score exceeds the threshold: 0

 

- The number of days between sending the Your Membership Is Disabled warnings:7

 

please advise..

 

_________________________________________________________________
More than messages?check out the rest of the Windows Live?.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 24 16:49:01 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:49:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscription problem!!
In-Reply-To: <COL105-W506BB7CB4C001EE730BE67FB720@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904240749010531e16b45d4@msapiro>

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>I'm recieving many messages from members in my lists that they have stopped recieving emails without requesting to be removed from the lists! when I check the daily backups I find out that their addresses does exist in old backups but disappear at some point ..
>
> 
>
>I suspect my bounce settings.. it's set as follows:


If it is bounce processing, you will see lots of messages in Mailman's
bounce log as bounces are received and their bounce score increases.

Also, if the bounce notifications are set to Yes the list owner will
email when delivery is disabled by bounce processing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jbernier at risd.edu  Fri Apr 24 16:44:08 2009
From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:44:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail to non-existing list - Part two
Message-ID: <s9f1981e.077@risd.edu>

If I Telnet directly to Mailman with a bogus list name, I get the same result.

>>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 4/24/2009 10:32 AM >>>
Jeff Bernier wrote:

>Sorry... I just wish to clarify... the message gets put in the moderator request queue in my "Mailman" list.


So your MTA or other Mailman delivery process is delivering mail to
NONEXISTENTLIST at example.com as if it were addressed to
mailman at example.com.

You have to examine this process to see why.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 24 16:52:48 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:52:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail to non-existing list - Part two
In-Reply-To: <s9f1981e.075@risd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904240752480250e16b44ea@msapiro>

Jeff Bernier wrote:

>If I Telnet directly to Mailman with a bogus list name, I get the same result.


I don't doubt that. The question is why? What (non-standard?) delivery
method actually gets the mail from the MTA to Mailman?


>>>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 4/24/2009 10:32 AM >>>
>Jeff Bernier wrote:
>
>>Sorry... I just wish to clarify... the message gets put in the moderator request queue in my "Mailman" list.
>
>
>So your MTA or other Mailman delivery process is delivering mail to
>NONEXISTENTLIST at example.com as if it were addressed to
>mailman at example.com.
>
>You have to examine this process to see why.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jbernier at risd.edu  Fri Apr 24 17:05:04 2009
From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:05:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail to non-existing list - Part two
Message-ID: <s9f19d01.079@risd.edu>

I have an instance of Postfix-(2.4.3) running on my Mailman-(2.1.9) host-(Mac OSX 10.5.6).
 
I am relatively new to both Mailman and Postfix, so I'm not sure where to look. Is there something in Postfix that may be causing this?

>>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 4/24/2009 10:52 AM >>>
Jeff Bernier wrote:

>If I Telnet directly to Mailman with a bogus list name, I get the same result.


I don't doubt that. The question is why? What (non-standard?) delivery
method actually gets the mail from the MTA to Mailman?


>>>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 4/24/2009 10:32 AM >>>
>Jeff Bernier wrote:
>
>>Sorry... I just wish to clarify... the message gets put in the moderator request queue in my "Mailman" list.
>
>
>So your MTA or other Mailman delivery process is delivering mail to
>NONEXISTENTLIST at example.com as if it were addressed to
>mailman at example.com.
>
>You have to examine this process to see why.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Fri Apr 24 17:04:29 2009
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:04:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail to non-existing list - Part two
In-Reply-To: <s9f1959f.028@risd.edu>
References: <s9f1959f.028@risd.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.64.0904241002310.37587@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009, Jeff Bernier wrote:

> I have tested this by just making up names on-the-fly like nolist, or 
> xyzlist, and get this result every time.

Sounds like you have a catchall address pointing to the Mailman list 
address.

-- Larry Stone
    lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 24 17:34:43 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 08:34:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail to non-existing list - Part two
In-Reply-To: <s9f19d01.077@risd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904240834430390428bdfb1@msapiro>

Jeff Bernier wrote:

>I have an instance of Postfix-(2.4.3) running on my Mailman-(2.1.9) host-(Mac OSX 10.5.6).
> 
>I am relatively new to both Mailman and Postfix, so I'm not sure where to look. Is there something in Postfix that may be causing this?


Normally, but not always, Postfix delivers to Mailman via aliases that
look like:

mailman:         "|/path/to/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:   "|/path/to/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces: "|/path/to/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
etc.

for the mailman (site) list, and

LISTNAME:         "|/path/to/mail/mailman post LISTNAME"
LISTNAME-admin:   "|/path/to/mail/mailman admin LISTNAME"
LISTNAME-bounces: "|/path/to/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
etc.

for a list named LISTNAME, with a set for each list. With Postfix,
these aliases can be automatically maintained by Mailman, but they may
not be.

In your case, delivery is not (totally) via aliases, because if it
were, and you mailed to NOLIST at example.com, the NOLIST address would
be undeliverable because there would be no alias for it.

So I'm guessing you have some other delivery process involving a
dedicated domain, e.g. lists.example.com, and mail to a non-existent
NOLIST at lists.example.com address is delivered to
mailman at lists.example.com instead of being rejected during SMTP.

The first step would be to find the entries for mail to
NOLIST at lists.example.com in Postfix's log (the system maillog?) and
see how they are being delivered.

This is probably a complex process involving Postfix's master.cf and
main.cf and other components.

Is this an Apple OS X server preinstalled Mailman? If so, this is an
Apple issue. We will try to help, but may not be able to.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Apr 24 17:48:54 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 00:48:54 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  mail to non-existing list
In-Reply-To: <s9f192dd.065@risd.edu>
References: <s9f192dd.065@risd.edu>
Message-ID: <87zle6kq6x.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jeff Bernier writes:

 > If someone posts a message to a list that does not exist in my
 > Mailman system,

If you have a stock Mailman installation, the answer is: Because it
wasn't posted to the nonexistent list, it was posted to the list where
the moderation request is (as a BCC or similar).  The nonexistent list
just happens to be in the To: or Cc: field.

 > My questions are... Why is it being held if the list does not
 > exist? Can I alter the behavior of Mailman to discard the message
 > instead?

Not easily.  Since your system doesn't have the list that is visible
in the headers, you would need to set up a filter that could guess
that a particular address at your site is a nonexistent list.  I don't
think that's easy.

It would be possible to have the spamfilter or a milter reject any
message that contains an address that is not valid at your site, but
that would surely bring the wrath of the gods on you, since people who
write to two people at your site and typo one of them would have their
message rejected!

From cgregory at hwcn.org  Fri Apr 24 18:48:42 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:48:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems after CentOS upgrade....
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904241238350.7499@barton.hwcn.org>

Hallo!

This may not specifically be a mailman problem, but I'm noticing
strange behaviour in mailmain, as well as in general on my mail server.

Background: My CentOS 4 system ran an automatic 'yum' update two days 
ago, and it updated many system files. I'm not an expert, but it looks 
like the 'kernel' and many 'lib' files were updated. The system did not 
'reboot', but during this process everal daemons were automatically 
restarted, and my 'Mail Avenger' daemon just failed (which caused 
temporary delay of incoming mail). I had to restart 'asmtpd' and for good 
measure, restarted postfix.

Mailman seemed to 'lock up', and queued all outgoing messages until I did 
a restart mid-yesterday. I got another complaint today, did another 
restart, and once again the list messages are going out. But I have no 
guarantee that it won't keep repeating this behaviour. Has anyone heard or 
seen any explanation for behaviour like this?

It may be a postfix issue, even though postfix was *not* among the updated 
programs. I'm noticing that I'm seeing multiple copies of *some* messages 
from this list. They have the Received Lines showing they were sent 
multiple times by the list serve, almost as if they had 4xx errors the 
first time? Very strange.....

I don't really want to reboot the whole system, especially where the 
stability of it is in doubt. Any advice welcome (anyone know a good, 
active CentOS mailing list that might have an angle on this?).

Thanks!

- Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 24 19:13:09 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:13:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems after CentOS upgrade....
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904241238350.7499@barton.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904241013090859fd18f124@msapiro>

Charles Gregory wrote:
>
>Mailman seemed to 'lock up', and queued all outgoing messages until I did 
>a restart mid-yesterday. I got another complaint today, did another 
>restart, and once again the list messages are going out. But I have no 
>guarantee that it won't keep repeating this behaviour. Has anyone heard or 
>seen any explanation for behaviour like this?
>
>It may be a postfix issue, even though postfix was *not* among the updated 
>programs. I'm noticing that I'm seeing multiple copies of *some* messages 
>from this list. They have the Received Lines showing they were sent 
>multiple times by the list serve, almost as if they had 4xx errors the 
>first time? Very strange.....
>
>I don't really want to reboot the whole system, especially where the 
>stability of it is in doubt. Any advice welcome (anyone know a good, 
>active CentOS mailing list that might have an angle on this?).


First of all, my .02 on rebooting - If you do a yum upgrade that
updates "system files", you should reboot. If you don't, and there is
some issue due to the upgrade, the next time you have an unplanned
reboot due to a power failure or some other external event, you will
have problems ultimately caused by this upgrade, and you may not even
remember this upgrade as a potential cause.

Regarding the Mailman issue per se, was Python involved in the upgrade?

See various Mailman logs such as error and smtp-failure for problems.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jesus at evangelizacion.org.mx  Fri Apr 24 19:32:40 2009
From: jesus at evangelizacion.org.mx (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_Rivas?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:32:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with hotmail
Message-ID: <49F1F7B8.6020901@evangelizacion.org.mx>

Hi everyone,

i have a problem delivering email to hotmail, i'm attaching the log:

=============================================================
Apr 24 12:29:11 evangelizacionactiva postfix/smtp[2260]: ABE81CC8621: 
to=<gabrie
lavillafue at hotmail.com>, relay=mx2.hotmail.com[65.55.92.136]:25, 
delay=5, delays
=4.5/0/0.4/0.1, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host 
mx2.hotmail.com[65.55.92.136] sa
id: 550 OU-002 Mail rejected by Windows Live Hotmail for policy reasons. 
Reasons
for rejection may be related to content with spam-like characteristics 
or IP/do
main reputation problems. If you are not an email/network admin please 
contact y
our E-mail/Internet Service Provider for help. Email/network admins, 
please visi
t http://postmaster.live.com for email delivery information and support 
(in repl
y to MAIL FROM command))
=============================================================

i connect telnet with hotmail port 25 correctly, even i requested to 
join to junk mail program of microsot hotmail
additional info: we have a dedicated IP and our domain is 
evangelizacionactiva.org.mx with RDNS and SPF record correctly, well we 
think is correct, this issues started 2 week ago.

thank and Best regards

-- 
cualquier duda estoy a tus ordenes

Dios te bendiga

Saludos


Soporte Evangelizacion Activa
_____________________________________
Evangelizaci?n Activa
Comunicaci?n Digital al Servicio del Evangelio
www.evangelizacion.org.mx


-- 
Saludos!!!


Jesus Alonso Rivas
Sistemas

_____________________________________
Evangelizaci?n Activa
Comunicaci?n Digital al Servicio del Evangelio
www.evangelizacion.org.mx


From jesus at evangelizacion.org.mx  Fri Apr 24 19:32:48 2009
From: jesus at evangelizacion.org.mx (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_Rivas?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:32:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with hotmail
Message-ID: <49F1F7C0.5040701@evangelizacion.org.mx>

Hi everyone,

i have a problem delivering email to hotmail, i'm attaching the log:

=============================================================
Apr 24 12:29:11 evangelizacionactiva postfix/smtp[2260]: ABE81CC8621: 
to=<gabrie
lavillafue at hotmail.com>, relay=mx2.hotmail.com[65.55.92.136]:25, 
delay=5, delays
=4.5/0/0.4/0.1, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host 
mx2.hotmail.com[65.55.92.136] sa
id: 550 OU-002 Mail rejected by Windows Live Hotmail for policy reasons. 
Reasons
for rejection may be related to content with spam-like characteristics 
or IP/do
main reputation problems. If you are not an email/network admin please 
contact y
our E-mail/Internet Service Provider for help. Email/network admins, 
please visi
t http://postmaster.live.com for email delivery information and support 
(in repl
y to MAIL FROM command))
=============================================================

i connect telnet with hotmail port 25 correctly, even i requested to 
join to junk mail program of microsot hotmail
additional info: we have a dedicated IP and our domain is 
evangelizacionactiva.org.mx with RDNS and SPF record correctly, well we 
think is correct, this issues started 2 week ago.

thank and Best regards

Saludos!!!


Jesus Alonso Rivas
Sistemas

_____________________________________
Evangelizaci?n Activa
Comunicaci?n Digital al Servicio del Evangelio
www.evangelizacion.org.mx


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 24 20:15:50 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:15:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with hotmail
In-Reply-To: <49F1F7C0.5040701@evangelizacion.org.mx>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904241115500046e00f5c20@msapiro>

Jes?s Rivas wrote:
>
>i have a problem delivering email to hotmail, i'm attaching the log:
>
>=============================================================
>Apr 24 12:29:11 evangelizacionactiva postfix/smtp[2260]: ABE81CC8621: 
>to=<gabrie
>lavillafue at hotmail.com>, relay=mx2.hotmail.com[65.55.92.136]:25, 
>delay=5, delays
>=4.5/0/0.4/0.1, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host 
>mx2.hotmail.com[65.55.92.136] sa
>id: 550 OU-002 Mail rejected by Windows Live Hotmail for policy reasons. 
>Reasons
>for rejection may be related to content with spam-like characteristics 
>or IP/do
>main reputation problems. If you are not an email/network admin please 
>contact y
>our E-mail/Internet Service Provider for help. Email/network admins, 
>please visi
>t http://postmaster.live.com for email delivery information and support 
>(in repl
>y to MAIL FROM command))
>=============================================================
>
>i connect telnet with hotmail port 25 correctly, even i requested to 
>join to junk mail program of microsot hotmail
>additional info: we have a dedicated IP and our domain is 
>evangelizacionactiva.org.mx with RDNS and SPF record correctly, well we 
>think is correct, this issues started 2 week ago.


I sympathize. I've been there myself, but this is not a Mailman issue.
This is something you will ultimately have to resolve with Microsoft
Hotmail/Windows Live Mail.

See the thread "list messages lost to Hotmail subscribers lost"
starting at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-June/062112.html>
for some more on this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cgregory at hwcn.org  Fri Apr 24 20:24:36 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:24:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems after CentOS upgrade....
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904241013090859fd18f124@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200904241013090859fd18f124@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904241334310.7499@barton.hwcn.org>

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Mailman seemed to 'lock up', and queued all outgoing messages until I did
>> a restart....
> First of all, my .02 on rebooting - If you do a yum upgrade that
> updates "system files", you should reboot. If you don't, and there is
> some issue due to the upgrade, the next time you have an unplanned
> reboot due to a power failure or some other external event, you will
> have problems ultimately caused by this upgrade, and you may not even
> remember this upgrade as a potential cause.

My problem is that my system is in a hard-to-access co-lo, which means I 
don't want to risk a reboot that causes problems that can only be 
addressed from a console. So I'm hoping I can avoid the reboot. Otherwise 
I'll have to schedule it for when the box is accessible.....

> Regarding the Mailman issue per se, was Python involved in the upgrade?

Don't think so.

> See various Mailman logs such as error and smtp-failure for problems.

Interestingly enough, when I shutdown mailman it reports an SMTP failure 
for a message it appears to have been 'attempting' to send, then 
shuts down. If I have a 'bad' message in the queue, how would I check 
this, and erase/drop it?

> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

Took a run through. Most of the suggestions relate to 'it never worked' 
conditions, as opposed to 'it was working and stopped', or 'it only works 
when I restart it'.

- C

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 24 21:31:32 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:31:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems after CentOS upgrade....
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904241334310.7499@barton.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904241231320812f75705cc@msapiro>

Charles Gregory wrote:

>On Fri, 24 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> See various Mailman logs such as error and smtp-failure for problems.
>
>Interestingly enough, when I shutdown mailman it reports an SMTP failure 
>for a message it appears to have been 'attempting' to send, then 
>shuts down. If I have a 'bad' message in the queue, how would I check 
>this, and erase/drop it?


And what failure does it report? What's in qfiles/out and qfiles/retry?
You can examine these entries with bin/dumpdb to see if there is
something obviously bad in the recips list. You can also use the
script at <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/remove_recips> to list the
recips and/or remove one or more recips.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cgregory at hwcn.org  Fri Apr 24 22:08:12 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:08:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems after CentOS upgrade....
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904241231320812f75705cc@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200904241231320812f75705cc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904241555090.7499@barton.hwcn.org>

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Interestingly enough, when I shutdown mailman it reports an SMTP failure
>> for a message it appears to have been 'attempting' to send...
> And what failure does it report?
Apr 24 12:26:48 2009 (7363) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted system 
call'), msgid: <BAY116-W51C78E0CDF2BD998561F7A9D740 at phx.gbl>
Apr 24 12:26:48 2009 (7363) Low level smtp error: (104, 'Connection reset 
by peer'), msgid: <BAY116-W51C78E0CDF2BD998561F7A9D740 at phx.gbl>

...followed by a whole series of....
Apr 24 12:26:48 2009 (7363) delivery to any at anydomain.tld failed with 
code -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')

> What's in qfiles/out and qfiles/retry?

Where are these hiding? Tried /var/lib/mailman /usr/lib/mailman

It's important to note that the failure logs only appear upon shutdown.
This would suggest that mailman (and postfix) are stuck until I force
the shutdown, which then 'resets' the connection between the two....

> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9>.

No help.

- C

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 24 23:21:14 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:21:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems after CentOS upgrade....
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0904241555090.7499@barton.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904241421140453d3837753@msapiro>

Charles Gregory wrote:

>On Fri, 24 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> What's in qfiles/out and qfiles/retry?
>
>Where are these hiding? Tried /var/lib/mailman /usr/lib/mailman

If this is a RedHat/CentOS Mailman package, there is no qfiles/
directory per se - they ar /var/spool/mailman/out and
/var/spool/mailman/retry. See <http://wiki.list.org/x/KYCB>
>
>It's important to note that the failure logs only appear upon shutdown.
>This would suggest that mailman (and postfix) are stuck until I force
>the shutdown, which then 'resets' the connection between the two....
>
>> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9>.
>
>No help.


Does that mean that your Python is older than 2.4 or that you are
unwilling or unable to apply the patch to get the debugging info from
Python's smtplib?

I agree that Mailman and Postfix are "stuck". If your Python is 2.4.x
or later, you can apply the patch in the FAQ to find out what is
happening leading up to their being stuck.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lars at vectortechnologies.ca  Sat Apr 25 04:59:59 2009
From: lars at vectortechnologies.ca (Lars Olson)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:59:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending email - "data format error"
Message-ID: <1EADFC28BDDD4565B668622CDCA569BD@romans>

I?m noticing these ?data format errors? in my maillog when someone
subscribes to a list.

 

 

Apr 24 21:54:18 www sendmail[14880]: n3P2sIXc014880:
from=<testing-bounces at mydomain.com>, size=1602, class=0, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<mailman.0.1240628056.14879.testing at mydomain.com>, proto=ESMTP,
daemon=MTA, relay=mail.hostingdomain.com [127.0.0.1]

Apr 24 21:54:19 www sendmail[14883]: n3P2sIXc014880:
to=<lars at testing-domain.com>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp,
pri=121602, relay=mail.testing-domain.com. [204.112.168.252], dsn=5.6.0,
stat=Data format error

Apr 24 21:54:19 www sendmail[14883]: n3P2sIXc014880:
to=<testing-bounces at mydomain.com>, delay=00:00:01, mailer=local, pri=121602,
dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown

Apr 24 21:54:19 www sendmail[14883]: n3P2sIXc014880: n3P2sJXc014883:
postmaster notify: User unknown

 

 


From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Fri Apr 24 15:39:14 2009
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:39:14 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Operation not permitted
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904181119240421dd9cf73d@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200904181119240421dd9cf73d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49F1C102.4060206@agr.unicamp.br>

Hi Mark,

Thanks a lot, worked.

Cl?vis

Mark Sapiro escreveu:
> Clovis Tristao wrote:
>   
>> I would like to know how to solve the problem below?
>>
>> Apr 17 14:31:36 2009 (18013) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 1] 
>> Operation not permitted: 
>> '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/cipg-l/index.html'
>> Apr 17 14:31:36 2009 (18013) Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
>>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
>>    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 217, in 
>> ArchiveMail
>>    h.close()
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 327, in close
>>    self.write_TOC()
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1094, in 
>> write_TOC
>>    toc = open(os.path.join(self.basedir, 'index.html'), 'w')
>> IOError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted: 
>> '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/cipg-l/index.html'
>>
>> Another detail, the directory is in shunt with 3000 files, the files can 
>> delete this directory?
>>     
>
>
> The above error occurs because Mailman doesn't have permission to write
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/cipg-l/index.html.
>
> You need to run bin/check_perms -f as root to fix permissions, and even
> that may not fix them all. If it looks like permissions are OK
> (everything should be group 'mailman' and group writable and
> directories should be SETGID), it may be a SELinux or other security
> manager issue.
>
> This error only affects archiving. Presumably the shunted messages are
> the ones missing from the archive because of this error. Even though
> this error occurs and prevents updating the html archive, the messages
> are probably in the
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/cipg-l.mbox/cipg-l.mbox file, so the
> easiest solution may be to first fix the permissions issue and then
> with mailman stopped, run
>
>   bin/arch --wipe cipg-l
>
> as the 'mailman' user to rebuild the html archive. Then you could
> remove the files from the shunt queue.
>
>   


-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at feagri.unicamp.br http://www.feagri.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 35211031-35211038 ou FAX(55xx19) 35211005/35211010


From donna at brainvis.wustl.edu  Wed Apr 22 17:39:10 2009
From: donna at brainvis.wustl.edu (Donna Dierker)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 10:39:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Want posts from mylist to mylist to be held
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904220723110765b3bb8988@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200904220723110765b3bb8988@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49EF3A1E.8040100@brainvis.wustl.edu>

On 04/22/2009 09:23 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Donna Dierker wrote:
>   
>> Recently, a spam message was successfully posted to mylist.  The "From"
>> field showed mylist at myserver.edu (i.e., the same address that one uses
>> when posting *to* mylist).  Looking in the list of subscribers, I don't
>> see 'mylist' as a member.  And typically posts do not come from the
>> list; rather, they are just posted *to* the list *from* an individual
>> subscriber's email address.
>>
>> Why aren't posts *from* mylist at myserver.edu being rejected, since
>> mylist at myserver.edu is a non-member from the point of view of the list?
>>     
>
>
> They should be. It may be too late to find why this one was accepted,
> but if you have access, you can find the post in the
> archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file and see some of the
> original headers.
>
> A post is considered to be from a list member if any of From:,
> Reply-To: or Sender: or the envelope sender is a list member.
>   
You're right, and in checking this I discovered another case of spam 
that I didn't notice earlier.  In both cases, the spammer spoofed the 
 From address of legitimate list members (but who clearly did not send 
these messages, since one of the spoofed addresses was mine).
> It is also possible, although not likely, that the spammer knows the
> list admin or moderator password and put an "Approved: password"
> header in the post, but if this was done, the evidence will be gone.
>
>
>   
>> I thought about putting From: mylist at myserver.edu in the spam filter,
>> and setting the action to Hold; however, I don't want a message being
>> sent to everyone on mylist every time a spam message gets held for
>> moderator approval.  I do, however, want these messages held, so I can
>> inspect them.  (Or at least a copy emailed to me, the list moderator,
>> before the message is discarded.)
>>     
>
>
> This is difficult. You could use header_filter_rules to discard the
> message, but then you won't see it even with forward_auto_discards
> true because that applies only to moderated and non-member auto
> discards.
>
> If you hold the message, the notice to the sender, even if to the list,
> should not be accepted as it is from LISTNAME-bounces, but if you want
> to be really sure, you could set respond_to_post_requests to No so
> there is no held notice back to the poster.
>
>   


From donna at brainvis.wustl.edu  Fri Apr 24 17:37:42 2009
From: donna at brainvis.wustl.edu (Donna Dierker)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:37:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail to non-existing list - Part two
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.64.0904241002310.37587@albion.stonejongleux.com>
References: <s9f1959f.028@risd.edu>
	<Pine.OSX.4.64.0904241002310.37587@albion.stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <49F1DCC6.4030005@brainvis.wustl.edu>

It really does seem like that.  See what postmaster is aliased to.  My 
server's /etc/aliases has several entries like this:

admin:          root
bin:            root
adm:            root
mail:           root
apache:         root
mailnull:       root
smmsp:          root
postfix:        root
system:         root
abuse:          root
webmaster:      root
mailer-daemon:  postmaster
postmaster:     root
mailman:        postmaster
info:           postmaster
marketing:      postmaster
sales:          postmaster
support:        postmaster

Note that postmaster is aliased to root, and root is later aliased to a 
real person's address.

It seems like his postmaster is aliased to mailman at his_server.edu.

On 04/24/2009 10:04 AM, Larry Stone wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Apr 2009, Jeff Bernier wrote:
>
>> I have tested this by just making up names on-the-fly like nolist, or 
>> xyzlist, and get this result every time.
>
> Sounds like you have a catchall address pointing to the Mailman list 
> address.
>
> -- Larry Stone
>    lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/donna%40brainvis.wustl.edu 
>
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9


From grover1711 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 09:25:48 2009
From: grover1711 at gmail.com (ankush grover)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:55:48 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure mailman replica on secondary server
Message-ID: <5f638b360904230025p1bd94518uf0088e7a6ee8012d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Friends,

I am running mailman 2.1.5 version on RHEL ES 4.1 with Postfix 2.1.5.
I am trying to configure mailman replication that is there will be a
primary mailman server and a secondary mailman server. The secondary
server will keep the lists and data in sync with the production and
will be brought up manually whenver primary server goes down.
Currently I am syncing the data b/w primary and secondary servers
through rsync utility, however there are some issues like mailman does
not shows the mailing lists on the secondary server. I would like to
know what is the best way to configure replica of mailman primary
server and what changes needs to be done for making secondary server
as live mailman server.


Data currently being sync is   /usr/lib/mailman(full directory),
/var/lib/mailman/data and /var/lib/mailman/lists directories

Please let me know if you need any further information.

Thanks & Regards

Ankush

From Pieter.Donche at ua.ac.be  Wed Apr 22 10:26:09 2009
From: Pieter.Donche at ua.ac.be (Pieter Donche)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 10:26:09 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list creation via web, and DEFAULT_MAIL_HOST
In-Reply-To: <20090420215833.U21695@flatlined.c2security.org>
References: <20090420215833.U21695@flatlined.c2security.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904221018400.43530@macos.cmi.ua.ac.be>

I set up a mailman list server on a host host.mydom.mycountry
Mails to this machine are sent to an alias mail.mydom.mycountry

Although I have set in my /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.mydom.mycountry'
DEFAULT_MAIL_HOST = 'mail.mydom.mycountry'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

and did a restart of the mailman program (and even a stop and a start)

When I create a list via the web interface, the mailing list is
created with mail address for post:   mylistname at host.mydom.mycountry

Of course I can change this as administrator of the list, but why does
it not create the list with mail.mydom.mycountry since it is in the
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py  file ?
How to make this behaviour correct..


From ricardo at americasnet.com  Fri Apr 24 01:31:47 2009
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:31:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] disable bounce processing not working
Message-ID: <36496.147.21.16.3.1240529507.squirrel@web1.americasnet.com>

Hi,

I have a list and I set the option to disable bounce processing, the list
admin wants to take care of bounces and removals on his own.

However he's still getting addresses removed from the list automatically
by mailman.

Is there something else I need to set to make sure mailman doesn't do any
automatic removals?

Thanks
Ricardo


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 25 06:35:18 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:35:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending email - "data format error"
In-Reply-To: <1EADFC28BDDD4565B668622CDCA569BD@romans>
Message-ID: <PC18702009042421351806099d6f00b3@msapiro>

Lars Olson wrote:

>I?m noticing these "data format errors" in my maillog when someone
>subscribes to a list.
>
> 
>
> 
>
>Apr 24 21:54:18 www sendmail[14880]: n3P2sIXc014880:
>from=<testing-bounces at mydomain.com>, size=1602, class=0, nrcpts=1,
>msgid=<mailman.0.1240628056.14879.testing at mydomain.com>, proto=ESMTP,
>daemon=MTA, relay=mail.hostingdomain.com [127.0.0.1]
>
>Apr 24 21:54:19 www sendmail[14883]: n3P2sIXc014880:
>to=<lars at testing-domain.com>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp,
>pri=121602, relay=mail.testing-domain.com. [204.112.168.252], dsn=5.6.0,
>stat=Data format error
>
>Apr 24 21:54:19 www sendmail[14883]: n3P2sIXc014880:
>to=<testing-bounces at mydomain.com>, delay=00:00:01, mailer=local, pri=121602,
>dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown


Apparently, the DSN can't be returned to testing-bounces at mydomain.com.
This is also a problem. Do you have a full set of aliases for this
list?


>Apr 24 21:54:19 www sendmail[14883]: n3P2sIXc014880: n3P2sJXc014883:
>postmaster notify: User unknown


Is this message a list welcome message or a confirmation request?

Check the relevant template for problems, although I can't imagine what
they'd be. The welcome template is subscribeack.txt, the confirmation
request is verify.txt. The default templates are in templates/LL/
where LL is the list's prefered language code or the code of the
user's preferred language, but there could be list specific templates
in lists/LISTNAME/LL/, domain specific templates in
templates/DOMAIN/LL or site specific templates in templates/site/LL.

Also check Mailman's logs.

Does Mailman work otherwise? Is it able to send other mail?

A quick google for 'sendmail "data format error"' indicates this may
mean that the sending domain (mydomain.com) may not have DNS records.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 25 06:51:13 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:51:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list creation via web, and DEFAULT_MAIL_HOST
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904221018400.43530@macos.cmi.ua.ac.be>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904242151130484c2905671@msapiro>

Pieter Donche wrote:

>I set up a mailman list server on a host host.mydom.mycountry
>Mails to this machine are sent to an alias mail.mydom.mycountry
>
>Although I have set in my /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.mydom.mycountry'
>DEFAULT_MAIL_HOST = 'mail.mydom.mycountry'
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
>and did a restart of the mailman program (and even a stop and a start)
>
>When I create a list via the web interface, the mailing list is
>created with mail address for post:   mylistname at host.mydom.mycountry
>
>Of course I can change this as administrator of the list, but why does
>it not create the list with mail.mydom.mycountry since it is in the
>/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py  file ?
>How to make this behaviour correct..


Are you accessing the create page via a URL with host name
'www.mydom.mycountry'?

Note that it is best to clear the Defaults.py settings from
VIRTUAL_HOSTS by putting

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()

in mm_cfg.py preceeding the

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

line, but if you are accessing the web create page via a URL with host
name 'www.mydom.mycountry', you should get the list's host_name set to
'mail.mydom.mycountry' with the above settings.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 25 06:58:04 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:58:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] disable bounce processing not working
In-Reply-To: <36496.147.21.16.3.1240529507.squirrel@web1.americasnet.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904242158040625799b73b5@msapiro>

Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
>
>I have a list and I set the option to disable bounce processing, the list
>admin wants to take care of bounces and removals on his own.


He's not going to see the bounces, so how's he going to do that?


>However he's still getting addresses removed from the list automatically
>by mailman.
>
>Is there something else I need to set to make sure mailman doesn't do any
>automatic removals?


If the list's bounce_processing is set to No, no further processing of
bounces will be done for that list, but members whose delivery has
already been disabled by bounce processing will continue to get their
periodic notices sent and will be removed after exhausting notices
unless their delivery is manually re-enabled by the user or the admin
in the interim.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 25 07:12:37 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:12:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure mailman replica on secondary
	server
In-Reply-To: <5f638b360904230025p1bd94518uf0088e7a6ee8012d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090424221237032823bebead@msapiro>

ankush grover wrote:
>
>I am running mailman 2.1.5 version on RHEL ES 4.1 with Postfix 2.1.5.
>I am trying to configure mailman replication that is there will be a
>primary mailman server and a secondary mailman server. The secondary
>server will keep the lists and data in sync with the production and
>will be brought up manually whenver primary server goes down.
>Currently I am syncing the data b/w primary and secondary servers
>through rsync utility, however there are some issues like mailman does
>not shows the mailing lists on the secondary server. I would like to
>know what is the best way to configure replica of mailman primary
>server and what changes needs to be done for making secondary server
>as live mailman server.


The lists do not show on the web interface of the backup server because
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is On (the default) and the host name of the
backup server is different from the primary server. If you set

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off

in mm_cfg.py, you'll see the lists on the backup, but if it is ever
necessary to switch to the backup, presumably you'll do that by
changing the primary name's IPs in DNS to point to the backup, in
which case you'll be accessing the backup via the primary names and
you'll see the lists anyway.


>Data currently being sync is   /usr/lib/mailman(full directory),
>/var/lib/mailman/data and /var/lib/mailman/lists directories

What about archives? Why not just rsync all of /var/lib/mailman?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Mon Apr 27 01:40:16 2009
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 17:40:16 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.12 and htDig integration patches
Message-ID: <200904262340.n3QNeHpY023728@julie.lostwells.net>

I'm wondering what is the situation with Mailman 2.1.12 integration
with the htDig search engine.  In the past, I've relied on Richard
Barrett's excellent support at openinfo.co.uk and have a 2.1.11 build
with his patches.  However, I don't see anything listed there for
2.1.12.  

While I can work through the exercises needed to get 2.1.12 to work
with htDig, I thought I'd ask first.  Do we need a different patch set
for the indexer and the archiver integration?

Hank

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Apr 27 07:32:10 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 07:32:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.12 and htDig integration patches
In-Reply-To: <200904262340.n3QNeHpY023728@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200904262340.n3QNeHpY023728@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <20090427053210.GN16585@charite.de>

* Hank van Cleef <vancleef at lostwells.net>:
> I'm wondering what is the situation with Mailman 2.1.12 integration
> with the htDig search engine.  In the past, I've relied on Richard
> Barrett's excellent support at openinfo.co.uk and have a 2.1.11 build
> with his patches.  However, I don't see anything listed there for
> 2.1.12.  

Don't the patches still apply?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12200 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de

From edward.harvey at lyricsemiconductor.com  Mon Apr 27 21:08:49 2009
From: edward.harvey at lyricsemiconductor.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:08:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrate a list from one server to another
Message-ID: <C61B7B01.309DC%edward.harvey@lyricsemiconductor.com>

I?m actually building a ?sandbox? machine, to test some config changes
before attempting on the production machine.  I installed the OS and mailman
on the new machine, configured it all up until I was able to browse the web
server, and see the ?Mailman? list ...

And then I copied the /var/lib/mailman directory from the old server to the
new one.  I expected to be able to browse the mail archives here, but ...

list_lists does in fact work.  Produces a list of all the lists.
But when I browse to listinfo, it just says ?There currently are no
publicly-advertised Mailman mailing lists?

I?ll poke around some more, but lots of times the answer will appear here
before I can figure it out on my own...

Thanks for any help...

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 27 22:36:21 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:36:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrate a list from one server to another
In-Reply-To: <C61B7B01.309DC%edward.harvey@lyricsemiconductor.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904271336210406830f38eb@msapiro>

Edward Ned Harvey wrote:

>I'm actually building a "sandbox" machine, to test some config changes
>before attempting on the production machine.  I installed the OS and mailman
>on the new machine, configured it all up until I was able to browse the web
>server, and see the "Mailman" list ...
>
>And then I copied the /var/lib/mailman directory from the old server to the
>new one.  I expected to be able to browse the mail archives here, but ...
>
>list_lists does in fact work.  Produces a list of all the lists.
>But when I browse to listinfo, it just says "There currently are no
>publicly-advertised Mailman mailing lists"
>
>I?ll poke around some more, but lots of times the answer will appear here
>before I can figure it out on my own...


The short answer is the URL you are using to access the web interface
on the "sandbox" has a different host from that in the list's
web_page_url.

For more, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From edward.harvey at lyricsemiconductor.com  Tue Apr 28 01:16:31 2009
From: edward.harvey at lyricsemiconductor.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:16:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrate a list from one server to another
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904271336210406830f38eb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C61BB50F.30A0E%edward.harvey@lyricsemiconductor.com>

> The short answer is the URL you are using to access the web interface
> on the "sandbox" has a different host from that in the list's
> web_page_url.
> 
> For more, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>.

Yes, that nailed it, with a little reading and a tiny amount of scripting...
Thank you!  :-)



From lars at vectortechnologies.ca  Tue Apr 28 04:38:49 2009
From: lars at vectortechnologies.ca (Lars Olson)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:38:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending email - "data format error"
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009042421351806099d6f00b3@msapiro>
References: <1EADFC28BDDD4565B668622CDCA569BD@romans>
	<PC18702009042421351806099d6f00b3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <B1CA884C24EA425B845B07DEB502EB30@romans>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 11:35 PM
> To: Lars Olson; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending email - "data format
error"
> 
> Lars Olson wrote:
> 
> >I?m noticing these "data format errors" in my maillog when someone
> >subscribes to a list.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Apr 24 21:54:18 www sendmail[14880]: n3P2sIXc014880:
> >from=<testing-bounces at mydomain.com>, size=1602, class=0, nrcpts=1,
> >msgid=<mailman.0.1240628056.14879.testing at mydomain.com>, proto=ESMTP,
> >daemon=MTA, relay=mail.hostingdomain.com [127.0.0.1]
> >
> >Apr 24 21:54:19 www sendmail[14883]: n3P2sIXc014880:
> >to=<lars at testing-domain.com>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01,
mailer=esmtp,
> >pri=121602, relay=mail.testing-domain.com. [204.112.168.252], dsn=5.6.0,
> >stat=Data format error
> >
> >Apr 24 21:54:19 www sendmail[14883]: n3P2sIXc014880:
> >to=<testing-bounces at mydomain.com>, delay=00:00:01, mailer=local,
> pri=121602,
> >dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown
> 
> 
> Apparently, the DSN can't be returned to testing-bounces at mydomain.com.
> This is also a problem. Do you have a full set of aliases for this
> list?

Yes, well I thought it did until I looked a second time - the entire portion
was commented out with "#" for some reason.  I usually copy/paste from
/etc/aliases.mailman to /etc/aliases once I run genaliases - for some reason
"#" prefixed my paste.

I removed the comments and tried it again - worked a little better... <sigh>
Feeling a little stupid right now...  

Should the aliases get rebuilt automatically when a new list is created or
does genaliases have to be run manually all the time?

Thanks Mark, once again right on the money!



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 28 05:03:53 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:03:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending email - "data format error"
In-Reply-To: <B1CA884C24EA425B845B07DEB502EB30@romans>
Message-ID: <PC18702009042720035307030aa4f0b4@msapiro>

Lars Olson wrote:
>
>Should the aliases get rebuilt automatically when a new list is created or
>does genaliases have to be run manually all the time?


Whether aliases integrate seamlessly with sendmail depends on exactly
how things are set up on your server.

If you are set up in a manner similar to Step 6 of the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/B4Au>, aliases should be automatically
maintained as lists are created/removed.

If you are using some other method such as a cron to sync the aliases
with the output of genaliases as mentioned in the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/joA9>, then this too will keep up with list
creation/removal.

If you are doing something else, it depends what you're doing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From james at thereidsonline.com  Tue Apr 28 12:31:05 2009
From: james at thereidsonline.com (James Reid)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 20:31:05 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What does this message mean?
Message-ID: <00df01c9c7ec$7000ce00$50026a00$@com>

Hi Everyone,

 

I have one single user on one of my lists whose posts regularly (though not
always) result in her messages coming to me as list owner with the following
message:

 

The attached message has been automatically discarded.

 

As far as I can see:

-          The user is sending from a subscribed address (only subscribers
can send to the list)

-          The message is not too big

 

The only thing that I can guess might be a problem is that the user is
renown for bcc'ing quite a few others in her posts, but I can't see how that
could affect things (the other addresses would have disappeared by the time
it got to my mailman server - the user is on the internet)

 

Can someone give me some suggestion on what the problem might be?

 

Thanks!

James.


From beta at admilon.net  Tue Apr 28 13:32:56 2009
From: beta at admilon.net (Matthias Schmidt)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 20:32:56 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What does this message mean?
In-Reply-To: <00df01c9c7ec$7000ce00$50026a00$@com>
References: <00df01c9c7ec$7000ce00$50026a00$@com>
Message-ID: <20090428113256.57577319@mail.admilon.net>

Am/On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 20:31:05 +1000 schrieb/wrote James Reid:

>I have one single user on one of my lists whose posts regularly (though not
>always) result in her messages coming to me as list owner with the following
>message:
>
> 
>
>The attached message has been automatically discarded.

html attachment instead of multipart or stuff like that?

cheers,
Matthias


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue Apr 28 13:57:33 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:57:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What does this message mean?
In-Reply-To: <00df01c9c7ec$7000ce00$50026a00$@com>
References: <00df01c9c7ec$7000ce00$50026a00$@com>
Message-ID: <20090428115732.GP26929@amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 08:31:05PM +1000, James Reid wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I have one single user on one of my lists whose posts regularly (though not
> always) result in her messages coming to me as list owner with the following
> message:
> 
> The attached message has been automatically discarded.
> 
> As far as I can see:
> 
> -          The user is sending from a subscribed address (only subscribers
> can send to the list)
> 
> -          The message is not too big

If you have access to the Mailman logs, what do they suggest/inform (I'd
probably grep for the sender's email address, and pipe it through less)

> The only thing that I can guess might be a problem is that the user is
> renown for bcc'ing quite a few others in her posts, but I can't see how that
> could affect things (the other addresses would have disappeared by the time
> it got to my mailman server - the user is on the internet)

Do you have the 'require_explicit_destination' option set, and is she
bcc'ing the list's address?

Apart from that, I'd check the senders' address isn't listed in any of
the other specific action lists.

-- 
``The government wants to bring an end to so-called vertical drinking.''
  (from the BBC's `Today in Parliament')

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 28 16:03:42 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 07:03:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What does this message mean?
In-Reply-To: <00df01c9c7ec$7000ce00$50026a00$@com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904280703420765417dba67@msapiro>

James Reid wrote:
>
>I have one single user on one of my lists whose posts regularly (though not
>always) result in her messages coming to me as list owner with the following
>message:
>
> 
>
>The attached message has been automatically discarded.
>
> 
>
>As far as I can see:
>
>-          The user is sending from a subscribed address (only subscribers
>can send to the list)


This only occurs if the list's forward_auto_discards is set to Yes and
the post is from a non-member and either the posters address matches
discard_these_nonmembers or generic_nonmember_action is discard.

Thus, The address she is sending from is not a list member. It may look
like a member address but be subtly different, e.g. j.doe at example.com
or jdoe at mail.example.com where the subscribed address is
j.doe at mail.example.com, but Mailman must see this as a non-member post
to forward it to you in this way.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 28 18:19:44 2009
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:19:44 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list error ..
Message-ID: <COL105-W548FE246ED7D4DBEF4589FFB6E0@phx.gbl>


hi,

 

I have 6 lists on the same server posting to them onced daily .. but nearly half the members are not being sent to.. when going to web interface, there's a specific list (let's call it list5) always gives an error: bug in mailman when going to membership list .. on SSH server side, the list_members works, but on sending the command:

 

./list_members --nomail list5, I get this error:

 

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./list_members", line 286, in ?
    main()
  File "./list_members", line 262, in main
    if nomail and not whymatches(mlist, addr, why):
  File "./list_members", line 138, in whymatches
    status = mlist.getDeliveryStatus(addr)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 139, in getDeliveryStatus
    self.__assertIsMember(member)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in __assertIsMember
    raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: samloutyAyahoo.com

 

note that the --nomail option works on all other lists..

 

How to fix this error ??

 

Thanks ..

 

_________________________________________________________________
Drag n? drop?Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live? Photos.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/photos.aspx

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 28 18:30:52 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:30:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list error ..
In-Reply-To: <COL105-W548FE246ED7D4DBEF4589FFB6E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC18702009042809305203123d945cec@msapiro>

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>I have 6 lists on the same server posting to them onced daily .. but nearly half the members are not being sent to.. when going to web interface, there's a specific list (let's call it list5) always gives an error: bug in mailman when going to membership list .. on SSH server side, the list_members works, but on sending the command:
>
> 
>
>./list_members --nomail list5, I get this error:
>
> 
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./list_members", line 286, in ?
>    main()
>  File "./list_members", line 262, in main
>    if nomail and not whymatches(mlist, addr, why):
>  File "./list_members", line 138, in whymatches
>    status = mlist.getDeliveryStatus(addr)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 139, in getDeliveryStatus
>    self.__assertIsMember(member)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in __assertIsMember
>    raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
>Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: samloutyAyahoo.com


The FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/UIA9> may help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dunkel at calamus.net  Tue Apr 28 21:41:09 2009
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:41:09 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Switching to UTF-8 and strange unicoded email
 accounts in member lists
Message-ID: <49F75BD5.5080409@calamus.net>

Hello Mark et al.

Please let me note some remarks on my experiences while switching to 
UTF-8 for Mailman first:

I have now finally managed to switch my Mailman 2.1.9 to UTF-8. I found 
many helpful hints and comments in this mailing list and want to thank 
you all for your great work.

But now I ran into that miraculous email encoding error (emails listed 
with u'name at domain.tld') which can be detected using withlist as 
recommended by Mark, running the Python commands:

$ bin/withlist listname
 >>> for mem in m.getMembers():
...   print repr(m.getMemberCPAddress(mem))

This indeed listed some strange email addresses and I have NO idea why, 
except that I used to use different iso encodings for my own email 
script before.

I fixed all them by doing this:

a) mailto:listname-request at mydomain.tld who list-password
b) mass unsubscribed ALL members from the relevant list (quietly)
b) mass subscribed ALL members using the who reply list

Then all emails were listed properly when I re-checked everything. Now 
all lists run fine (again) and I wonder if the current stable 2.1.12 
does already have more "built-in" UTF-8 stuff. Can't wait to update my 
Debian Etch server to get my hands on the current Mailman version.

Maybe my notes can help some other Mailman users out there.

Best regards,
--Ulf Dunkel

From dunkel at calamus.net  Tue Apr 28 21:43:19 2009
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:43:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to remove a damaged email address from a
	mailing list
Message-ID: <49F75C57.5000209@calamus.net>

When I checked my mailing list member email addresses, I came across an 
email account which contains a colon (:), which shouldn't be there of 
course.

I am quite sure that I should add some email syntax check to my own 
subscription script. But now I have this email in a list and it won't 
go, whatever I try.

It looks like this:

	name:familyname at domain.tld

How can I get rid of it?

--Ulf Dunkel

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 28 23:44:37 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:44:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to remove a damaged email address from
	amailing list
In-Reply-To: <49F75C57.5000209@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904281444370515d8f13068@msapiro>

Ulf Dunkel wrote:

>When I checked my mailing list member email addresses, I came across an 
>email account which contains a colon (:), which shouldn't be there of 
>course.



See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/UIA9>.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 28 23:47:16 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:47:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Switching to UTF-8 and strange unicoded
	emailaccounts in member lists
In-Reply-To: <49F75BD5.5080409@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <PC18702009042814471607188ffc4dde@msapiro>

Ulf Dunkel wrote:
>
>But now I ran into that miraculous email encoding error (emails listed 
>with u'name at domain.tld') which can be detected using withlist as 
>recommended by Mark, running the Python commands:
>
>$ bin/withlist listname
> >>> for mem in m.getMembers():
>...   print repr(m.getMemberCPAddress(mem))


bin/list_members --unicode

would also find them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From alexander at nautae.eti.br  Mon Apr 27 23:53:08 2009
From: alexander at nautae.eti.br (alexander at nautae.eti.br)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:53:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I fix a normal answer?
Message-ID: <20090427155308.15906wa6rucahtgc@www.nautae.eti.br>

Hi everyone.

Excuse my English.

I have finished the installation of a Mailman 2.1.12.

I did all the configurations and when I send a email to a list, the  
Postfix tell me that everything was right, but... nothing happens.

Here's my maillog:

## BEGIN
Apr 27 14:36:04 ip-72-167-96-162 imap[26018]: accepted connection
Apr 27 14:36:04 ip-72-167-96-162 imap[26018]: login:  
ip-72-167-96-162.ip.secureserver.net [127.0.0.1]  
alexander at nautae.eti.br PLAIN User logged in
Apr 27 14:36:04 ip-72-167-96-162 postfix/pickup[1772]: A362CC233CE:  
uid=48 from=<alexander at nautae.eti.br>
Apr 27 14:36:04 ip-72-167-96-162 postfix/cleanup[13518]: A362CC233CE:  
message-id=<20090427153604.18274lqjyfr1rcmc at www.nautae.eti.br>
Apr 27 14:36:04 ip-72-167-96-162 postfix/qmgr[1767]: A362CC233CE:  
from=<alexander at nautae.eti.br>, size=822, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Apr 27 14:36:04 ip-72-167-96-162 imap[26018]: seen_db: user  
alexander at nautae.eti.br opened  
/var/lib/imap/domain/n/nautae.eti.br/user/a/alexander.seen
Apr 27 14:36:05 ip-72-167-96-162 postfix/pipe[13520]: A362CC233CE:  
to=<teste4 at listas.sitemaldito.com.br>, relay=mailman, delay=0.67,  
delays=0.02/0.07/0/0.57, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered via mailman  
service)
Apr 27 14:36:05 ip-72-167-96-162 postfix/qmgr[1767]: A362CC233CE: removed
## END

So... could you see the "(delivered via mailman service)"?

And no errors after...

What's happens here?

I'm using postfix-to-mailman.py script.

I've put "MTA=None" inside the mm_cfg.py.

How can I log more information to try to fix the complete silence of  
my system?

Here is more information:

main.cf

virtual_mailbox_domains = hash:${config_directory}/virtual_domains
virtual_alias_maps = hash:${config_directory}/virtual_alias
virtual_mailbox_maps = ${virtual_alias_maps}
sender_canonical_maps = hash:${config_directory}/sender_canonical
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
...
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
smtp_sasl_password_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/saslpass
...
mailbox_transport = lmtp:unix:/var/lib/imap/socket/lmtp
virtual_transport = lmtp:unix:/var/lib/imap/socket/lmtp
recipient_delimiter = +
owner_request_special = no
relay_domains = listas.sitemaldito.com.br
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
relayhost = k2smtpout.secureserver.net
myhostname = ip-72-167-96-162.ip.secureserver.net
mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1


master.cf:

mailman unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
   flags=FR user=mailman
   argv=/usr/local/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py ${nexthop} ${mailbox}


Thanks to any help.
[]'s
Alexander
Brazil - Rio de Janeiro

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

From alexander at nautae.eti.br  Mon Apr 27 23:55:26 2009
From: alexander at nautae.eti.br (alexander at nautae.eti.br)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:55:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I fix a normal answer? - More
Message-ID: <20090427155526.42465un95v8ty4w8@www.nautae.eti.br>

Hi.

I've forgotten to say:

Yes, I've put the line in /etc/transport and have run postmap:

listas.sitemaldito.com.br   mailman:

[]'s
Alexander
Brazil - Rio de Janeiro

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From chuck at blazingfun.com  Tue Apr 28 08:14:18 2009
From: chuck at blazingfun.com (Charles Rosenberg)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:14:18 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Target individual list member with sub-addressing
	when sending?
Message-ID: <01a301c9c7c8$90cb77d0$b2626770$@com>

Hello all.  I am new here, but trying my best to learn as much as possible.  I searched far and wide through the Internet/FAQ and archives, but I think my question is rather unique.

 

My Setup:

Ubuntu 9.04 with newest Postfix and Dovcot running

 

The steps I took and have done are as follows:

 

1.     I have a list setup for a very small number of subscribers ? 10 to 20 max.

2.     The mailing list address is australia at lists.seishinonline.jp (It?s for a group of people hosting some students from Austrailia)

3.     Only one or two addresses can post to the list.  All other mailings will be rejected.

4.     I have it setup to never show the ?poster?s? address, instead using the mailing list address.

5.     In addition to number 4, I setup a special ?reply-to? address where all replies should go to.

6.     Because the vast majority of the subscribers will be using their cell-phones? built-in capability for e-mail, I found out step 5 actually won?t work for them. (Yay Japan?)

7.     Because of 6, I created a re-write rule in Postfix to force all the From: headers to be the ?reply-to? address.

8.     The ?reply-to? address is set to forward the e-mails to the original list ?poster? inside of Postfix. 

 

 

Up to this point, everything works ok.  My question is:

After receiving a message through the ?reply-to? address, I want the original poster to be able to send a single message back to the ?replier,? possibly answering some question.  Problem: I can?t have the ?poster? know the individual address of the ?replier,? nor can I have the ?replier? know the direct address of the ?poster.?  Would it be possible to use some sort of sub-addressing, extended addressing, plus addressing, etc. to send a message to an individual subscriber based on a ?subscriber? username or something?  For example sending to Australia+KenYamaguchi at lists.seishinonline.jp would cause the e-mail to only go to the subscriber associated with ?KenYamaguchi? and NOT the whole list.  This way, neither side knows the other?s ?direct mail address.? Is this possible?  Thanks in advance.

 

chuckyrose


From rprichard at newseum.org  Tue Apr 28 21:46:40 2009
From: rprichard at newseum.org (Ralph Prichard)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:46:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding a description to the "<listname>-bounces"
	address
Message-ID: <49F75D20.90908@newseum.org>


This seems like such a simple thing that I'm sure it's described 
somewhere, but after searching the archives and Google I haven't had any 
success in finding it.

We have some Outlook users, and as this FAQ describes...

http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/From+field+displayed+by+Microsoft+Outlook

...they see the Sender info glued to the From info.

Please note:  we're perfectly happy with the <listname>-bounces address 
itself (I mention that because my searches turned up several people 
asking if it was possible to change.)

All I'd like to know is if it's possible to add a descriptive string to 
that address.  In other words, configure the Sender line to be something 
like...

Sender:  The Interesting Example List <example-bounces at example.com>

...instead of what it apparently is now...

Sender:  example-bounces at example.com

Even just being able to insert the "description" value from the General 
Options page would help.

Thanks,

Ralph


From sgruver at cis.ctc.edu  Mon Apr 27 22:55:47 2009
From: sgruver at cis.ctc.edu (Gruver, Sandi)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:55:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message about probes
Message-ID: <2937FEC6C48A2444A185846F547A35DA0720A5E08F@london.CISI.ctc.edu>

>From the mailman server's Logwatch program:

A total of 1 sites probed the server
  62.1.205.86

!!!! 2 possible successful probes
 /mailman/private/sqlhelp///includes/session.php?baseDir=../../../../../../../../etc/passwd HTTP Response 200
 /mailman/admin///includes/session.php?baseDir=../../../../../../../../etc/passwd HTTP Response 200

Is this likely a probe only or a notification of a compromise?


Thank you,






From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 29 07:45:41 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 00:45:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Target individual list member with
 sub-addressing when sending?
In-Reply-To: <01a301c9c7c8$90cb77d0$b2626770$@com>
References: <01a301c9c7c8$90cb77d0$b2626770$@com>
Message-ID: <49F7E985.3080503@shub-internet.org>

on 4/28/09 1:14 AM, Charles Rosenberg said:

> After receiving a message through the ?reply-to? address, I want the
> original poster to be able to send a single message back to the
> ?replier,? possibly answering some question.  Problem: I can?t have
> the ?poster? know the individual address of the ?replier,? nor can I
> have the ?replier? know the direct address of the ?poster.?  Would it
> be possible to use some sort of sub-addressing, extended addressing,
> plus addressing, etc. to send a message to an individual subscriber
> based on a ?subscriber? username or something?  For example sending
> to Australia+KenYamaguchi at lists.seishinonline.jp would cause the
> e-mail to only go to the subscriber associated with ?KenYamaguchi?
> and NOT the whole list.  This way, neither side knows the other?s
> ?direct mail address.? Is this possible?  Thanks in advance.

You're talking about something we call an "anonymizer".  Mailman can do 
that to a limited degree, but only in one direction -- you permanently 
strip out the identifiable information about the sender, and then post 
the message to the list.  There's no way to get that information back.

If you want a two-way anonymizing system, that is something you would 
have to implement outside of Mailman.  There are such systems in 
existence elsewhere, but it is very tricky to get these sorts of things 
right, and you really want to make sure you do get them right in cases 
like this -- you don't want some stalker to be able to get information 
about host families or prospective students and then be able to use that 
to cause harm to them.

I'd suggest that you go find some of those two-way anonymizing systems 
and you talk to them about how you might be able to set them up 
alongside a mailing list system, and how they could potentially be used 
in conjunction with the mailing list system.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Apr 29 09:20:09 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:20:09 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  message about probes
In-Reply-To: <2937FEC6C48A2444A185846F547A35DA0720A5E08F@london.CISI.ctc.edu>
References: <2937FEC6C48A2444A185846F547A35DA0720A5E08F@london.CISI.ctc.edu>
Message-ID: <87k554j592.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Gruver, Sandi writes:

 > !!!! 2 possible successful probes
 >  /mailman/private/sqlhelp///includes/session.php?baseDir=../../../../../../../../etc/passwd HTTP Response 200
 >  /mailman/admin///includes/session.php?baseDir=../../../../../../../../etc/passwd HTTP Response 200
 > 
 > Is this likely a probe only or a notification of a compromise?

That depends on the semantics of session.php (which AFAIK is *not*
distributed by Mailman, so you should ask the vendor of that script
for support).  It's possible that session.php successfully returned a
page (thus giving an HTTP OK response) but the content of the page was
an empty index of available files and a search box or something like
that, or even an error message like "there's nothing here for you to
look at; please check your URL and try again."  (That wouldn't
necessarily be a "404 Not found" because session.php itself was found
and executed without a program error.)

However, I would assume that the attacker is probing via session.php
because it does effect a compromise, eg, returning the contents of
/etc/passwd.  That is a compromise even if there are no passwords
there; it returns the system identities of your users, and that is
unquestionably useful for planning further attacks as many network
servers run under their own ids, and if there are regular users, they
are subject to targeting for various kinds of login attempts.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 29 15:38:30 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 06:38:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I fix a normal answer?
In-Reply-To: <20090427155308.15906wa6rucahtgc@www.nautae.eti.br>
Message-ID: <PC18702009042906383003905e94fb64@msapiro>

alexander at nautae.eti.br wrote:
>
>So... could you see the "(delivered via mailman service)"?
>
>And no errors after...
>
>What's happens here?
>
>I'm using postfix-to-mailman.py script.
>
>I've put "MTA=None" inside the mm_cfg.py.
>
>How can I log more information to try to fix the complete silence of  
>my system?


Did you start Mailman (bin/mailmanctl start)?

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>. The parts about aliases
don't apply because you are using postfix-to-mailman.py, but the rest
is applicable. By the way, postfix-to-mailman.py is an unsupported 3rd
party script and is generally unnecessary given that Postfix and
Mailman can be set up for automatic list alias maintenance when lists
are created/removed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 29 15:44:25 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 06:44:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Target individual list member with
 sub-addressing when sending?
In-Reply-To: <01a301c9c7c8$90cb77d0$b2626770$@com>
References: <01a301c9c7c8$90cb77d0$b2626770$@com>
Message-ID: <49F859B9.9050506@msapiro.net>

Charles Rosenberg wrote:
> 
> After receiving a message through the ?reply-to? address, I want the
> original poster to be able to send a single message back to the
> ?replier,? possibly answering some question.  Problem: I can?t have
> the ?poster? know the individual address of the ?replier,? nor can I
> have the ?replier? know the direct address of the ?poster.?  Would it
> be possible to use some sort of sub-addressing, extended addressing,
> plus addressing, etc. to send a message to an individual subscriber
> based on a ?subscriber? username or something?  For example sending
> to Australia+KenYamaguchi at lists.seishinonline.jp would cause the
> e-mail to only go to the subscriber associated with ?KenYamaguchi?
> and NOT the whole list.  This way, neither side knows the other?s
> ?direct mail address.? Is this possible?  Thanks in advance.


Not in Mailman without significant modification to the Mailman code.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 29 15:54:35 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 06:54:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message about probes
In-Reply-To: <2937FEC6C48A2444A185846F547A35DA0720A5E08F@london.CISI.ctc.edu>
Message-ID: <PC187020090429065435015623f7897f@msapiro>

Gruver, Sandi wrote:

>>From the mailman server's Logwatch program:
>
>A total of 1 sites probed the server
>  62.1.205.86
>
>!!!! 2 possible successful probes
> /mailman/private/sqlhelp///includes/session.php?baseDir=../../../../../../../../etc/passwd HTTP Response 200
> /mailman/admin///includes/session.php?baseDir=../../../../../../../../etc/passwd HTTP Response 200
>
>Is this likely a probe only or a notification of a compromise?


I saw the same thing in my Logwatch the other day. These messages are
reported in the httpd report. This is suspicious from the httpd point
of view because of the 200 response to the multi "../" URL, but if you
look in Mailman's error log, you'll see entries like 'No such list
"includes":' and 'No such list "sqlhelp":' corresponding to these
because the Mailman CGI's protect against these attacks.

All the attacker got was a "non-existent list" page from Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 29 16:03:49 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:03:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding a description to the
	"<listname>-bounces"address
In-Reply-To: <49F75D20.90908@newseum.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904290703490281e141f04a@msapiro>

Ralph Prichard wrote:
>
>We have some Outlook users, and as this FAQ describes...
>
>http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/From+field+displayed+by+Microsoft+Outlook
>
>...they see the Sender info glued to the From info.
>
>Please note:  we're perfectly happy with the <listname>-bounces address 
>itself (I mention that because my searches turned up several people 
>asking if it was possible to change.)
>
>All I'd like to know is if it's possible to add a descriptive string to 
>that address.  In other words, configure the Sender line to be something 
>like...
>
>Sender:  The Interesting Example List <example-bounces at example.com>
>
>...instead of what it apparently is now...
>
>Sender:  example-bounces at example.com
>
>Even just being able to insert the "description" value from the General 
>Options page would help.


The FAQ you reference talks about altering or removing a "msg['sender']
= envsender" line in SMTPDirect.py.

If you want to insert the description, you could make this line say

    msg['sender'] = '%s <%s>' % (mlist.description, envsender)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 29 16:14:29 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:14:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding a description to
	the"<listname>-bounces"address
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904290703490281e141f04a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1870200904290714290781e141f22a@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>The FAQ you reference talks about altering or removing a "msg['sender']
>= envsender" line in SMTPDirect.py.
>
>If you want to insert the description, you could make this line say
>
>    msg['sender'] = '%s <%s>' % (mlist.description, envsender)


It is probably better to make it

    msg['sender'] = '"%s" <%s>' % (mlist.description, envsender)

in case the description contains "." or other specials.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Apr 29 17:28:50 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 00:28:50 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message about probes
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090429065435015623f7897f@msapiro>
References: <2937FEC6C48A2444A185846F547A35DA0720A5E08F@london.CISI.ctc.edu>
	<PC187020090429065435015623f7897f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <878wljjx71.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > Gruver, Sandi wrote:

 > >!!!! 2 possible successful probes
 > > /mailman/private/sqlhelp///includes/session.php?baseDir=../../../../../../../../etc/passwd HTTP Response 200
 > 
 > I saw the same thing in my Logwatch the other day. These messages are
 > reported in the httpd report.

Aha, I see where I went wrong ... /mailman is an Apache ScriptAlias
(or equivalent), isn't it.  (I prefer a cgi-bin ScriptAlias so it's
immediately obvious what the URL is supposed to resolve to.)

Good to know that this probably isn't a problem after all.  But do
check the logs to make sure that it is mailman's CGIs that are being
accessed!

 > if you look in Mailman's error log, you'll see entries like 'No
 > such list "includes":' and 'No such list "sqlhelp":' corresponding
 > to these because the Mailman CGI's protect against these attacks.

Mark, do you understand what the attacker is trying to exploit here?
It's not at all obvious to me.  Since /mailman/ is a scriptalias, and
those are both actual scripts, it's mailman/private and mailman/admin
that are going to be interpreting everything after the script name.
The next segment of the path is the listname, and anything after that
is either garbage or a query about the list, so I can't see an attempt
to exploit mailman here, despite the fact that they're specifically
invoking mailman CGIs.  Am I missing something?

Do any webservers convert /foo///bar to /bar?  So maybe they're aiming
at /includes/session.php, which I guess must also be scriptalias'ed?


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed Apr 29 17:41:23 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:41:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Target individual list member with
 sub-addressing when sending?
In-Reply-To: <01a301c9c7c8$90cb77d0$b2626770$@com>
References: <01a301c9c7c8$90cb77d0$b2626770$@com>
Message-ID: <49F87523.7010105@riverviewtech.net>

On 04/28/09 01:14, Charles Rosenberg wrote:
> 5.     In addition to number 4, I setup a special "reply-to" address 
> where all replies should go to.

Is the "reply-to" address set to the mailing list or a different 
address?  (I'm guessing different but I figured I had better ask to be 
sure.)

> 6.     Because the vast majority of the subscribers will be using 
> their cell-phones' built-in capability for e-mail, I found out step 5 
> actually won't work for them. (Yay Japan!)

Don't you just love half @$$ implementations...  (I'm going to digress 
before I even get started.)

> 7.     Because of 6, I created a re-write rule in Postfix to force 
> all the From: headers to be the "reply-to" address.

*nod*

> 8.     The "reply-to" address is set to forward the e-mails to the 
> original list "poster" inside of Postfix.

Are you saying that Postfix has been configured such that the email 
address that replies are directed to (via "Reply-To:" or "From:") is 
forwarded / redirected in to the address used submit new posts to the 
list or somehow magically directing to the email address of the person 
that posted.  (Again I want to be sure that there is no collision with 
the "post" address.)

> After receiving a message through the "reply-to" address, I want the 
> original poster to be able to send a single message back to the 
> "replier," possibly answering some question.

Ok, is this a correct understanding of the sequence of events?

  1)  Original poster sends an original message to the mailing list.
  2)  Mailing list sends the original message to all subscribers with a 
custom Reply-To: / From: address.
  3)  Responder replies to the original message to the mailing list via 
the custom Reply-To: / From: address.
  4)  Mailing list sends the reply message to all subscribers with a 
(different?) custom Reply-To: / From: address.
  5)  Responder replies to the reply message to the original poster via 
the (different) custom Reply-To: / From: address.

> Problem: I can't have 
> the "poster" know the individual address of the "replier," nor can I 
> have the "replier" know the direct address of the "poster."

Ok.

Would it be ok for subscribers to know other subscribers addresses /if/ 
the addresses were ""forwarders for the mailing list?  I.e. when ever 
someone sent a message through the list their From: address would be 
translated to their special ""list address?  Similarly any messages sent 
to these ""list addresses would then be forwarded on to the real 
address.  All the while people not knowing each others ""real addresses, 
just the ""list addresses.

> Would it 
> be possible to use some sort of sub-addressing, extended addressing, 
> plus addressing, etc. to send a message to an individual subscriber 
> based on a "subscriber" username or something?  For example sending 
> to Australia+KenYamaguchi at lists.seishinonline.jp would cause the 
> e-mail to only go to the subscriber associated with "KenYamaguchi" 
> and NOT the whole list.  This way, neither side knows the other's 
> "direct mail address." Is this possible?  Thanks in advance.

I think the conditional mass forwarding you are asking for is beyond the 
scope of Mailman.  However, that being said, I think it would be 
possible to set up something to help decide where to send messages and 
conditionally send messages to the mailing list or individual recipients.



Grant. . . .

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 30 01:33:17 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:33:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message about probes
In-Reply-To: <878wljjx71.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC18702009042916331704536f196056@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Mark Sapiro writes:
> > Gruver, Sandi wrote:
>
> > >!!!! 2 possible successful probes
> > > /mailman/private/sqlhelp///includes/session.php?baseDir=../../../../../../../../etc/passwd HTTP Response 200
> > 
[...]

> > if you look in Mailman's error log, you'll see entries like 'No
> > such list "includes":' and 'No such list "sqlhelp":' corresponding
> > to these because the Mailman CGI's protect against these attacks.
>
>Mark, do you understand what the attacker is trying to exploit here?
>It's not at all obvious to me.  Since /mailman/ is a scriptalias, and
>those are both actual scripts, it's mailman/private and mailman/admin
>that are going to be interpreting everything after the script name.
>The next segment of the path is the listname, and anything after that
>is either garbage or a query about the list, so I can't see an attempt
>to exploit mailman here, despite the fact that they're specifically
>invoking mailman CGIs.  Am I missing something?


I think they are shotgunning trying to find a session.php that
presumably is vulnerable to the rest of the attack. I saw other URIs
at the same time that didn't reference mailman CGIs and got 404 status.


>Do any webservers convert /foo///bar to /bar?  So maybe they're aiming
>at /includes/session.php, which I guess must also be scriptalias'ed?


I think that's what they're looking for. On my server, they also tried
//includes/session.php and ///includes/session.php without the
preceeding mailman stuff.

It may be some not very smart script kiddies thing that just happens to
hit a few mailman CGIs. They do seem to have some knowledge of my site
because one of the GETs was for
/mailman/private/VALID_LIST_NAME///includes/session.php?baseDir=../../../../../../../../etc/passwd
which returned the login page which they ignored.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Thu Apr 30 03:04:04 2009
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:04:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to remove a damaged email address from
	amailing list
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200904281444370515d8f13068@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200904281444370515d8f13068@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47B48CD5-8352-48B1-9CF2-D163EA5619FE@goldmark.org>

On Apr 28, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> When I checked my mailing list member email addresses, I came  
>> across an
>> email account which contains a colon (:), which shouldn't be there of
>> course.

> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/UIA9>.

Shouldn't mailman check for 822 conformance?

Cheers,

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From brian at emwd.com  Thu Apr 30 03:32:14 2009
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 21:32:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A question on undeliverables
Message-ID: <006a01c9c933$7f319240$7d94b6c0$@com>

Hi Everyone,

I have a client who is not using Mailman's automatic bounce processing.
However he wants to be able to receive any undeliverable notification that
his list encounters when a post is sent to it so he can manually remove the
trouble e-mail account himself. Is there a way to configure the list to do
that? I setup a test list myself to see if I could get undeliverable
messages sent to myself as the list owner but to no avail.

Am I missing something simple here? 

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"




From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 30 04:39:59 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:39:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to remove a damaged email address from
	amailing list
In-Reply-To: <47B48CD5-8352-48B1-9CF2-D163EA5619FE@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <PC187020090429193959070373412aba@msapiro>

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
>
>>> When I checked my mailing list member email addresses, I came  
>>> across an
>>> email account which contains a colon (:), which shouldn't be there of
>>> course.
>
>> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/UIA9>.
>
>Shouldn't mailman check for 822 conformance?


It does, and BTW, colon is allowed in the local part if quoted, but
unquoted colons were allowed before 2.1.11.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 30 04:55:32 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:55:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A question on undeliverables
In-Reply-To: <006a01c9c933$7f319240$7d94b6c0$@com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009042919553202182a4c457a@msapiro>

Brian Carpenter wrote:
>
>I have a client who is not using Mailman's automatic bounce processing.
>However he wants to be able to receive any undeliverable notification that
>his list encounters when a post is sent to it so he can manually remove the
>trouble e-mail account himself. Is there a way to configure the list to do
>that? I setup a test list myself to see if I could get undeliverable
>messages sent to myself as the list owner but to no avail.
>
>Am I missing something simple here? 


Assuming the MTA uses aliases for delivery to Mailman, set the alias
for LISTNAME-bounces to go to "owner".

You can't do it cleanly with list settings. What you can do with
settings alone is set bounce_processing to Yes, bounce_score_threshold
to 0.5 and bounce_notify_owner_on_disable to Yes. Then the member will
have delivery disabled on the first bounce and the owner will get a
notice with the bounce DSN attached, but the member will have had
delivery disabled even if that isn't what the owner would have wanted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From chuck at blazingfun.com  Thu Apr 30 02:43:37 2009
From: chuck at blazingfun.com (Charles Rosenberg)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:43:37 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Target individual list member with
	sub-addressing when sending?
In-Reply-To: <49F87523.7010105@riverviewtech.net>
References: <01a301c9c7c8$90cb77d0$b2626770$@com>
	<49F87523.7010105@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <026d01c9c92c$b3533ad0$19f9b070$@com>

Thank you to everyone who replied and gave me ideas and directions to pursue further.  After reading all of the replies so far, I feel that I should clarify and respond to some of the questions raised to help me and others:

> Brad Knowles wrote: 
> If you want a two-way anonymizing system, that is something you would 
> have to implement outside of Mailman.  

> I'd suggest that you go find some of those two-way anonymizing systems 
> and you talk to them about how you might be able to set them up alongside 
> a mailing list system, and how they could potentially be used in 
> conjunction with the mailing list system.

Thank you for this suggestion, Brad.  I did take a look around to see what was out there.  To be honest, the ones I saw seemed to be a bit overkill for what I need.  After thinking about the setup a lot more, I determined that contrary to my original post, it is OK if the "designated poster" sees and knows the list member's e-mail addresses when they use the "reply-to" mail address.  What can NOT be known by the list members is the "designated poster's" direct e-mail address.  I will look some more on this topic, thank you.

> > 5.     In addition to number 4, I setup a special "reply-to" address
> > where all replies should go to.
> 
> Is the "reply-to" address set to the mailing list or a different
> address?  (I'm guessing different but I figured I had better ask to be
> sure.)
> 

I'm sorry that I wasn't clear in the beginning.  There is only ONE, maybe two(besides me the admin) "designated poster(s)" to the mailing list.  The "reply-to" address is completely different from the list address.  It is one specifically created for replies to this specific mailing list.  It is not used anywhere else.

> 
> > 8.     The "reply-to" address is set to forward the e-mails to the
> > original list "poster" inside of Postfix.
> 
> Are you saying that Postfix has been configured such that the email
> address that replies are directed to (via "Reply-To:" or "From:") is
> forwarded / redirected in to the address used submit new posts to the
> list or somehow magically directing to the email address of the person
> that posted.  (Again I want to be sure that there is no collision with
> the "post" address.)

Again, sorry that this wasn't clear.  Since there is only one, maybe two(besides me the admin) "designated posters," Postfix redirects all replies to the "reply-to" address to a specific e-mail address, namely that of the "designated poster."  The "designated poster" is our school's Host Family coordinator and she will be the only one who will be posting to the list.  Since Postfix knows her direct address, all mail directed at the "reply-to" address will be forwarded to her. (I will probably set it up to send me or someone else in the school's administration a copy as well just so we see what is going out and in.)


> > After receiving a message through the "reply-to" address, I want the
> > original poster to be able to send a single message back to the
> > "replier," possibly answering some question.
> 
> Ok, is this a correct understanding of the sequence of events?
> 
>   1)  Original poster sends an original message to the mailing list.
>   2)  Mailing list sends the original message to all subscribers with a
> custom Reply-To: / From: address.
>   3)  Responder replies to the original message to the mailing list via
> the custom Reply-To: / From: address.
>   4)  Mailing list sends the reply message to all subscribers with a
> (different?) custom Reply-To: / From: address.
>   5)  Responder replies to the reply message to the original poster via
> the (different) custom Reply-To: / From: address.

Close.  Like I mentioned above, since I wasn't clear in the original post(my fault), I hope the above explanation clears it up.  Just to summarize like you have done:

1.  Original poster("designated poster" - our Host Family Coordinator) posts a message to the mailing list.
2.  Mailman sends the message out to the mailing list.
3.  Postfix rewrites the outgoing mails' headers so that it looks like it comes from a custom, specific "reply-to" address.
4.  List member replies to the original post via the "reply-to" address.
5.  Postfix takes the reply to the "reply-to" address and forwards it to the Original Poster("designated poster"), not the entire list.
6.  Problem arises at this point.  Now our "designated poster" wishes to send a reply to the reply, not the whole list.  


> > Problem: I can't have
> > the "poster" know the individual address of the "replier," nor can I
> > have the "replier" know the direct address of the "poster."
> 
> Ok.

I said in my original post that this was the problem, but I was partially wrong(again, my fault).  I can't have any list members know the "designated poster's" address, but the "designated poster" CAN see and know the address of an individual list member without any really problems.  The "designated poster" can't use this information to contact the list member directly however since if the "designated poster" simply uses her cell phone's "reply" function, the recipient will now know the "designated poster's" direct e-mail address.  


> Would it be ok for subscribers to know other subscribers addresses /if/
> the addresses were ""forwarders for the mailing list?  I.e. when ever
> someone sent a message through the list their From: address would be
> translated to their special ""list address?  Similarly any messages sent
> to these ""list addresses would then be forwarded on to the real
> address.  All the while people not knowing each others ""real addresses,
> just the ""list addresses.

To be honest, I think what you are talking about here is one potential solution that I was originally thinking about.  What I was thinking about was creating the list as an "umbrella" list and creating mailing lists for each specific recipient I want.  This would mean that if I wanted to make it as seamless as possible, I would have to have Postfix do some work too.  To summarize:

1.  Create the "main" list, austrailia at lists.domain.com as an umbrella list.
2.  Create an individual mailing list address for each member we want to get e-mail.  i.e. KenYamaguchi at lists.domain.com, JoeTanaka at lists.domain.com, etc. and have each individual mailing list have only one subscriber, namely the person we want getting our e-mails.
3.  Subscribe each of the "individual" mailing lists to the umbrella list.
4.  Continue to rewrite the mail headers to show the "designated posters" messages as coming from the "reply-to" address.
5.  Configure Postfix to rewrite the from headers on the replies to the "reply-to" address so the "designated poster" automatically sees the associated "individual" mailing list for that list member.  i.e. Postfix will rewrite kyamaguchi at docomo.ne.jp --> KenYamaguchi at lists.domain.com when kyamaguchi at docomo.ne.jp replies to the "reply-to" address.
6.  Once the "designated poster" gets the reply, she only has to hit her "reply" button to reply to the reply which should go to the "individual" mailing list.(e.g. KenYamaguchi at lists.domain.com)
7.  Configure Postfix to then rewrite our "reply-to-the-reply" header to strip out our "designated poster's" address and replace it with the "reply-to" address we want all replies to go to. i.e. [From: designatedpostersaddress at softbank.ne.jp] --> [From: reply-to-address at domain.com]

First question about this is that it seems like it would work.  Would it?

Second question, is there an easier way?  This way I have to manually "fix" and configure addresses in Mailman and Postfix and while I don't anticipate more than about 20 or 30 list members at most, it does mean I have to do it all by hand.  
Good side is that the list will only be active for a week or so.  After that, all data gets wiped.


> > Would it
> > be possible to use some sort of sub-addressing, extended addressing,
> > plus addressing, etc. to send a message to an individual subscriber
> > based on a "subscriber" username or something?  For example sending
> > to Australia+KenYamaguchi at lists.seishinonline.jp would cause the
> > e-mail to only go to the subscriber associated with "KenYamaguchi"
> > and NOT the whole list.  This way, neither side knows the other's
> > "direct mail address." Is this possible?  Thanks in advance.
> 
> I think the conditional mass forwarding you are asking for is beyond the
> scope of Mailman.  However, that being said, I think it would be
> possible to set up something to help decide where to send messages and
> conditionally send messages to the mailing list or individual recipients.

I guess since you are not the only one to mention that this would be very difficult in Mailman as-is, I should think about my idea I just posted above this paragraph using the individual lists idea.  As for your conditionally sending messages to the list or individual members, how powerful is Mailman in setting up something like that?  Just for future reference.

Thanks again.

Charles





From dave.andrews at energyresearchgroup.eu  Wed Apr 29 18:49:06 2009
From: dave.andrews at energyresearchgroup.eu (dave andrews)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:49:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
Message-ID: <979d6a0a0904290949p1cca450i96c0cecbc9adb74c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi can anyone help me get the keywords selection facility working on
mailman?

Thanks



-- 
Dave Andrews
Claverton Energy Group
UK + 44 (0)7552659166 / 0755 4452359
http://www.claverton-energy.com/

From herates at web.de  Wed Apr 29 23:17:49 2009
From: herates at web.de (herates)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 23:17:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting all Mailadresses of a list
Message-ID: <49F8C3FD.3090207@web.de>

Hi,

I need a List of all Mail-adresse which are in a mailing-list.

There are too many listuser, so in the owner-management(sorry i just
only used the german gui, so i hope u understand) not all of them are
listed at once. but that is what i prefer.


greets

wolfgang

From s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk  Wed Apr 29 18:34:54 2009
From: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk (Steff Watkins)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:34:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message about probes
In-Reply-To: <878wljjx71.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <2937FEC6C48A2444A185846F547A35DA0720A5E08F@london.CISI.ctc.edu><PC187020090429065435015623f7897f@msapiro>
	<878wljjx71.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <B61F4F3E3CA36C42AD232F19CD716E6801CB9323@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+s.watkins=nhm.ac.uk at python.org 
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+s.watkins=nhm.ac.uk at python.org] 
> On Behalf Of Stephen J. Turnbull
> Sent: 29 April 2009 16:29
> To: Mark Sapiro
> Cc: Gruver, Sandi; 'mailman-users at python.org'
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] message about probes
> 
> Mark Sapiro writes:
>  > Gruver, Sandi wrote:
> 
>  > >!!!! 2 possible successful probes
>  > > 
> /mailman/private/sqlhelp///includes/session.php?baseDir=../../
../../../../../../etc/passwd HTTP Response 200
>  > 
>  > I saw the same thing in my Logwatch the other day. These 
>  > messages are reported in the httpd report.

These are, IMNSHO, attempts by persons (or scripts or bots) to attempt
to "exploit" a potential hole that may be in your setup.

Of course, if the hole isn't in your setup then they get no success and
so no exploit. Ho hum, they'll say, and move on to one of the X hundred
millions of other websites on the internet and try again. It's "shotgun
principle"; take a shotgun into a field with 100 crows, fire the shotgun
and you're bound to hit at least one crow.

> Aha, I see where I went wrong ... /mailman is an Apache ScriptAlias
(or equivalent), isn't it.  (I prefer a cgi-bin ScriptAlias so
> it's immediately obvious what the URL is supposed to resolve to.)

I think you may be mixing up concepts here, or rather splitting a
concept. A ScriptAlias under Apache points to a cgi-bin location and so
it IS a "cgi-bin alias". They're both "obvious" where they point to if
you look through the webserver config file. As Apache is one of the
major players in the webserver market, it is likely that your install of
Mailman runs under Apache and so technically it'd be an Apache
ScriptAlias to Mailman! :)  

> Good to know that this probably isn't a problem after all.  But do
> check the logs to make sure that it is mailman's CGIs that are being
> accessed!

I did a quick scan through the code of my local Mailman setup and could
not find a session.php file. If anything this looks like an attempt by
someone or something to try and exploit one of the many CMS systems that
are out there that have session handlers written into their code.... Or
possibly a bulletin board system or two!

The attempt works by calling a php script called session.php which is
passed the variable 'baseDir=../../../../../../../../etc/passwd'.
Whatever script this is targetted at has probably been found to have a
duff sanitising routine and so will probably evaluate it directly. If
the script is NOT buried more than 8 levels of sub-directory down the
target website it will eventually evaluate to "/etc/passwd". The script
is labelled as "includes" so I'm guessing it is meant to just reurn the
contents of the requested file. In this case, it'd be /etc/passwd.

This in itself is of questionable use. They could potentially get some
usernames out of it if it worked but most likely would not get many (or
any) of the encrypted password hashes as they are stored in the
/etc/shadow file (usually, depending on O/S). 

> Mark, do you understand what the attacker is trying to exploit here?
It's not at all obvious to me.

They're attempting to force a script to return to contents of the
password file.

> Since /mailman/ is a scriptalias, and those are both actual scripts,
it's mailman/private and mailman/admin
> that are going to be interpreting everything after the script name.

Hhmm... Except the /mailman/ scriptalias itself points to a directory...
which is marked up as "active content" by virtue of being a script
alias. Now, unless you have had a really bad run of luck and the person
who setup Mailman felt they really needed a 'backdoor' in to be able to
see what was in there and so setup a htaccess file/index.php, what
SHOULD happen is a call to http://blahblah/Mailman/ will return a big
fat juicy failure message telling the user/bot that they are not allowed
to look there.

> The next segment of the path is the listname, and anything after that
> is either garbage or a query about the list, so I can't see an attempt
> to exploit mailman here, despite the fact that they're specifically
> invoking mailman CGIs.  Am I missing something?

I'd guess that it was not a Mailman specific 'attack', mainly because of
the call to includes/session.php. A poorly setup webserver could, maybe,
possibly, ever so slightly try and satisfy the request but if you have a
setup like that then it's not really hackers/crackers/phreakers you have
to worry about more than your sysadmin/webadmin who has let that setup
run on the public internet in the first place.

I think that this has raised a good point though. If you spot
'questionable activity' to your webserver systems then it's probably
wise to spend a few minutes looking at it, cut'n'pasting the same URIs
inta web-browser and seeing what it shows and looking at the webserver's
logfiles. Make sure that your webserver behaves properly, or fails to
behave in a way that would be useless to any potential attacker... and
then move on.

Steff (currently going slightly mad sorting out samba access problems!)

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Apr 30 09:18:36 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:18:36 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message about probes
In-Reply-To: <B61F4F3E3CA36C42AD232F19CD716E6801CB9323@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
References: <2937FEC6C48A2444A185846F547A35DA0720A5E08F@london.CISI.ctc.edu>
	<PC187020090429065435015623f7897f@msapiro>
	<878wljjx71.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<B61F4F3E3CA36C42AD232F19CD716E6801CB9323@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <871vrak3sj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Steff Watkins writes:

 > > Aha, I see where I went wrong ... /mailman is an Apache ScriptAlias
 > (or equivalent), isn't it.  (I prefer a cgi-bin ScriptAlias so
 > > it's immediately obvious what the URL is supposed to resolve to.)

 > They're both "obvious" where they point to if
 > you look through the webserver config file.

Which is precisely what I don't have to do if I use the convention
that locations containing CGI scripts are named cgi-bin.


From dunkel at calamus.net  Thu Apr 30 11:11:27 2009
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:11:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting all Mailadresses of a list
In-Reply-To: <49F8C3FD.3090207@web.de>
References: <49F8C3FD.3090207@web.de>
Message-ID: <49F96B3F.3090304@calamus.net>

Hi Wolfgang.

> I need a List of all Mail-adresse which are in a mailing-list.

This cannot be done in the Mailman admin interface as long as you don't 
change the relevant HTML coding stuff.

Simply send a request to your

ListName-request at your.domain who ListPassword

and enjoy Mailman's reply. :-)

If you need to adjust user entries, don't forget the Search field in the 
Member List section of the admin interface. ;-)

HTH,
--Ulf Dunkel

From donna at brainvis.wustl.edu  Thu Apr 30 14:41:45 2009
From: donna at brainvis.wustl.edu (Donna Dierker)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:41:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message about probes
In-Reply-To: <B61F4F3E3CA36C42AD232F19CD716E6801CB9323@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
References: <2937FEC6C48A2444A185846F547A35DA0720A5E08F@london.CISI.ctc.edu><PC187020090429065435015623f7897f@msapiro>	<878wljjx71.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<B61F4F3E3CA36C42AD232F19CD716E6801CB9323@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <49F99C89.8010709@brainvis.wustl.edu>

See inline comments below.

On 04/29/2009 11:34 AM, Steff Watkins wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mailman-users-bounces+s.watkins=nhm.ac.uk at python.org 
>> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+s.watkins=nhm.ac.uk at python.org] 
>> On Behalf Of Stephen J. Turnbull
>> Sent: 29 April 2009 16:29
>> To: Mark Sapiro
>> Cc: Gruver, Sandi; 'mailman-users at python.org'
>> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] message about probes
>>
>> Mark Sapiro writes:
>>  > Gruver, Sandi wrote:
>>
>>  > >!!!! 2 possible successful probes
>>  > > 
>> /mailman/private/sqlhelp///includes/session.php?baseDir=../../
>>     
> ../../../../../../etc/passwd HTTP Response 200
>   
>>  > 
>>  > I saw the same thing in my Logwatch the other day. These 
>>  > messages are reported in the httpd report.
>>     
>
> These are, IMNSHO, attempts by persons (or scripts or bots) to attempt
> to "exploit" a potential hole that may be in your setup.
>
> Of course, if the hole isn't in your setup then they get no success and
> so no exploit. Ho hum, they'll say, and move on to one of the X hundred
> millions of other websites on the internet and try again. It's "shotgun
> principle"; take a shotgun into a field with 100 crows, fire the shotgun
> and you're bound to hit at least one crow.
>
>   
>> Aha, I see where I went wrong ... /mailman is an Apache ScriptAlias
>>     
> (or equivalent), isn't it.  (I prefer a cgi-bin ScriptAlias so
>   
>> it's immediately obvious what the URL is supposed to resolve to.)
>>     
>
> I think you may be mixing up concepts here, or rather splitting a
> concept. A ScriptAlias under Apache points to a cgi-bin location and so
> it IS a "cgi-bin alias". They're both "obvious" where they point to if
> you look through the webserver config file. As Apache is one of the
> major players in the webserver market, it is likely that your install of
> Mailman runs under Apache and so technically it'd be an Apache
> ScriptAlias to Mailman! :)  
>
>   
>> Good to know that this probably isn't a problem after all.  But do
>> check the logs to make sure that it is mailman's CGIs that are being
>> accessed!
>>     
>
> I did a quick scan through the code of my local Mailman setup and could
> not find a session.php file. If anything this looks like an attempt by
> someone or something to try and exploit one of the many CMS systems that
> are out there that have session handlers written into their code.... Or
> possibly a bulletin board system or two!
>
> The attempt works by calling a php script called session.php which is
> passed the variable 'baseDir=../../../../../../../../etc/passwd'.
> Whatever script this is targetted at has probably been found to have a
> duff sanitising routine and so will probably evaluate it directly. If
> the script is NOT buried more than 8 levels of sub-directory down the
> target website it will eventually evaluate to "/etc/passwd". The script
> is labelled as "includes" so I'm guessing it is meant to just reurn the
> contents of the requested file. In this case, it'd be /etc/passwd.
>
> This in itself is of questionable use. They could potentially get some
> usernames out of it if it worked but most likely would not get many (or
> any) of the encrypted password hashes as they are stored in the
> /etc/shadow file (usually, depending on O/S). 
>   
It could be used to spoof addresses of valid list members in spam to lists.
>   
>> Mark, do you understand what the attacker is trying to exploit here?
>>     
> It's not at all obvious to me.
>
> They're attempting to force a script to return to contents of the
> password file.
>
>   
>> Since /mailman/ is a scriptalias, and those are both actual scripts,
>>     
> it's mailman/private and mailman/admin
>   
>> that are going to be interpreting everything after the script name.
>>     
>
> Hhmm... Except the /mailman/ scriptalias itself points to a directory...
> which is marked up as "active content" by virtue of being a script
> alias. Now, unless you have had a really bad run of luck and the person
> who setup Mailman felt they really needed a 'backdoor' in to be able to
> see what was in there and so setup a htaccess file/index.php, what
> SHOULD happen is a call to http://blahblah/Mailman/ will return a big
> fat juicy failure message telling the user/bot that they are not allowed
> to look there.
>
>   
>> The next segment of the path is the listname, and anything after that
>> is either garbage or a query about the list, so I can't see an attempt
>> to exploit mailman here, despite the fact that they're specifically
>> invoking mailman CGIs.  Am I missing something?
>>     
>
> I'd guess that it was not a Mailman specific 'attack', mainly because of
> the call to includes/session.php. A poorly setup webserver could, maybe,
> possibly, ever so slightly try and satisfy the request but if you have a
> setup like that then it's not really hackers/crackers/phreakers you have
> to worry about more than your sysadmin/webadmin who has let that setup
> run on the public internet in the first place.
>
> I think that this has raised a good point though. If you spot
> 'questionable activity' to your webserver systems then it's probably
> wise to spend a few minutes looking at it, cut'n'pasting the same URIs
> inta web-browser and seeing what it shows and looking at the webserver's
> logfiles. Make sure that your webserver behaves properly, or fails to
> behave in a way that would be useless to any potential attacker... and
> then move on.
>   
This is exactly what do, and I find the URLs, when pasted in browsers, 
give not found responses.

But it's worth pointing out that we've had mailman installed for over 
seven years without these probes.  It was only after we switched our 
main web site to a wiki a few months ago that we started seeing these 
probes.  The attempts on our server are using the wiki index.php, e.g.:

    /wiki/index.php?doc=../../../../../../../../../../../../../etc/passwd%00? HTTP Response 200 
    /wiki/index.php/index.php?doc=../../../../../../../../../../../../../etc/passwd%00? HTTP Response 200 


> Steff (currently going slightly mad sorting out samba access problems!)
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/donna%40brainvis.wustl.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>   


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 30 16:51:35 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:51:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <979d6a0a0904290949p1cca450i96c0cecbc9adb74c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009043007513503908dfa8529@msapiro>

dave andrews wrote:

>Hi can anyone help me get the keywords selection facility working on
>mailman?


There are some problems with the way topics keywords are documented in
Mailman 2.1.x. Mailman 2.2 will actually work as documented, but for
Mailman 2.1 you need to know the following.

The regexp box is a single regexp compiled in VERBOSE mode. This means
unescaped whitespace outside of character classes is ignored and any
unescaped # and everything to the right of it is ignored.

In particular, this means that several words, one per line are not ORed
as implied by the documentation. You need to explicitly OR them as in

firstword|
secondword|
otherword

This is fixed in 2.2 (not released yet) so that the simple word per
line will work, and current working regexps will be converted to
continue working.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 30 16:56:37 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:56:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting all Mailadresses of a list
In-Reply-To: <49F8C3FD.3090207@web.de>
Message-ID: <PC18702009043007563703758dfa851c@msapiro>

herates wrote:
>
>I need a List of all Mail-adresse which are in a mailing-list.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Thu Apr 30 19:22:00 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:22:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Target individual list member
 with	sub-addressing when sending?
In-Reply-To: <026d01c9c92c$b3533ad0$19f9b070$@com>
References: <01a301c9c7c8$90cb77d0$b2626770$@com>	<49F87523.7010105@riverviewtech.net>
	<026d01c9c92c$b3533ad0$19f9b070$@com>
Message-ID: <49F9DE38.2010205@riverviewtech.net>

On 04/29/09 19:43, Charles Rosenberg wrote:
> Thank you for this suggestion, Brad.  I did take a look around to see 
> what was out there.  To be honest, the ones I saw seemed to be a bit 
> overkill for what I need.  After thinking about the setup a lot more, 
> I determined that contrary to my original post, it is OK if the 
> "designated poster" sees and knows the list member's e-mail addresses 
> when they use the "reply-to" mail address.  What can NOT be known by 
> the list members is the "designated poster's" direct e-mail address. 
>  I will look some more on this topic, thank you.

Ok...  This helps in that the requirements are a bit clearer.  I think 
this also helps by making the requirements a bit easier to fulfill.

> I'm sorry that I wasn't clear in the beginning.  There is only ONE, 
> maybe two(besides me the admin) "designated poster(s)" to the mailing 
> list.  The "reply-to" address is completely different from the list 
> address.  It is one specifically created for replies to this specific 
> mailing list.  It is not used anywhere else.

*nod*

(I think I have what I think is a fairly simple and elegant solution, 
one which you sort of touch on before.)

> To be honest, I think what you are talking about here is one 
> potential solution that I was originally thinking about.  What I was 
> thinking about was creating the list as an "umbrella" list and 
> creating mailing lists for each specific recipient I want.  This 
> would mean that if I wanted to make it as seamless as possible, I 
> would have to have Postfix do some work too.  To summarize:

I'm also thinking two differently behaving mailing lists that are 
closely linked to each other.

> 1.  Create the "main" list, austrailia at lists.domain.com as an 
> umbrella list.

I don't know if it will be an "umbrella" list or not, but that is more 
syntax than any thing else.

> 2.  Create an individual mailing list address for each member we want 
> to get e-mail.  i.e. KenYamaguchi at lists.domain.com, 
> JoeTanaka at lists.domain.com, etc. and have each individual mailing 
> list have only one subscriber, namely the person we want getting our 
> e-mails.

I don't think you will want to create a separate list for each 
subscriber, that would be way over kill.

> 3.  Subscribe each of the "individual" mailing lists to the umbrella 
> list.

Yes.

> 4.  Continue to rewrite the mail headers to show the "designated 
> posters" messages as coming from the "reply-to" address.
> 5.  Configure Postfix to rewrite the from headers on the replies to 
> the "reply-to" address so the "designated poster" automatically sees 
> the associated "individual" mailing list for that list member.  i.e. 
> Postfix will rewrite kyamaguchi at docomo.ne.jp --> 
> KenYamaguchi at lists.domain.com when kyamaguchi at docomo.ne.jp replies to 
> the "reply-to" address.

I'm thinking that Mailman may be able to do what you are wanting to do 
after all.  That is /IF/ we are very careful with what we do.

> 6.  Once the "designated poster" gets the reply, she only has to hit 
> her "reply" button to reply to the reply which should go to the 
> "individual" mailing list.(e.g. KenYamaguchi at lists.domain.com)

Ok...

Can the "designated poser" reply (from his/her ""public address) 
directly to the recipient that replied to the original post?

> 7.  Configure Postfix to then rewrite our "reply-to-the-reply" header 
> to strip out our "designated poster's" address and replace it with 
> the "reply-to" address we want all replies to go to. i.e. [From: 
> designatedpostersaddress at softbank.ne.jp] --> [From: 
> reply-to-address at domain.com]

Ok.

Now let me lay out what's in my head:

  - Create a "designated posters" list.

  - Create a "subscribers" list.

  - Create a "reply" list.

  - Subscribe all designated posters (including admins) to both the 
"designated posters" and the "reply" list.

  - Subscribe the "subscribers" list to the "designated posters" list.

  - Subscribe the subscribers to the "subscribers" list.

  - Configure the "designated posters" list to fully hide the identity 
of the real sender and make messages appear as if they came from the 
"designated posters" list.

  - Configure the "subscribers" list to direct replies to the "reply" list.

This is where I'm not 100% what to do.  So here's how I see things 
working up to this point.

  1) Designated posters send from what ever address they want to the 
"designated posters" list.

  2) The "designated posters" list hides all personal information and 
sends the post to all subscribers including all designated posters and 
the "subscribers" list, thus including all real subscribers.

  3) The "subscribers" list sends the message on to all real subscribers.

  4) Subscribers reply to the message they received from the 
"subscribers" list which is sent to the "reply" list.

  5) The "reply" list will send the message on to all designated posters 
unmodified.  This will allow the designated posters to see the real 
email address of the subscriber which they can reply to.

  6) This is where my I'm stuck.  How to have replies from the 
designated poster be sanitized and sent back to the subscriber that is 
replying.  I wonder if a two way anonymizer would help here.

> First question about this is that it seems like it would work.  Would 
> it?

I don't know for sure, but I think you are going to get stuck at the 
same point that I am, namely hiding the reply from the original poster 
back to the subscriber that replied.

> Second question, is there an easier way?  This way I have to manually 
> "fix" and configure addresses in Mailman and Postfix and while I 
> don't anticipate more than about 20 or 30 list members at most, it 
> does mean I have to do it all by hand.

I don't know.

> Good side is that the list will only be active for a week or so. 
>  After that, all data gets wiped.

Yesh.  That makes me question if this is worth the effort.

> I guess since you are not the only one to mention that this would be 
> very difficult in Mailman as-is, I should think about my idea I just 
> posted above this paragraph using the individual lists idea.  As for 
> your conditionally sending messages to the list or individual 
> members, how powerful is Mailman in setting up something like that? 
>  Just for future reference.

Let me share the key points in my head to see if it will spark any one 
else in to helping solve this puzzle.

  - The "original posters" mailing list is used to sanitize the original 
poster's address and to make sure that all original posters are kept in 
the loop.

  - The "subscribers" list is responsible for doing the mass delivery.

  - The "reply" list is used to make sure that all original posters are 
kept in the loop with out sending the message back to the subscribers.

I will do some more thinking about ways to allow the original posters to 
reply to replies that come in to the "reply" list from subscribers while 
hiding the original posters address.

> Thanks again.

*nod*



Grant. . . .

From tgerhard at pcc.edu  Thu Apr 30 22:32:28 2009
From: tgerhard at pcc.edu (Tom Gerhardt)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:32:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email interface question -- list of mailing lists
	you own
Message-ID: <002701c9c9d2$c7fd2120$57f76360$@edu>

Hi,
Is there an email command to get the names of mailing lists you own?
Is there an email command to get the names and owner names of mailing lists
on our system?
Thank you,
Tom Gerhardt, Portland Community College