From bernholdtde at ornl.gov  Sat Mar  1 00:21:47 2008
From: bernholdtde at ornl.gov (bernholdtde at ornl.gov)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:21:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regular expressions in list config files?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802191423490703acf84e70@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080229232147.49899CAE7A@trunk.csm.ornl.gov>

Okay, it looks like the header_filter_rules are getting set correctly
through all interfaces, including the web u/i -- I have been unable to
reproduce the errors I had initially observed with escaping of
backslashes.  Perhaps I got my tests muddled.

I've also spent some time figuring out why even the simplest regex I
could think of wasn't matching as I thought it should.  I instrumented
Handlers/SpamDetect.py to watch what was going on.

Here's the result: In applying header_filter_rules, it looks like the
entire set of headers is being treated as a single multiline string.

For reasons I don't entirely understand (remember I'm not a python
expert), "^" and "$" are not matching the beginning and end of
individual lines of a multiline string, even though I interpreted
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/matching-searching.html to say
that they should, and a colleague who's very familiar with Python also
thought they should.

If I don't have the line beginning/ending constraints in the regex,
there is a risk (albeit small) that a subject header could match.  So
I ended up with "\nx-spam-flag:\s+yes\s*\n".

By the way, MM FAQ entry 3.32 and 3.51 are inconsistent about "^" and
"$", and based on my experience 3.51 is wrong.

Thanks for your help.
--
David E. Bernholdt                   |   Email: bernholdtde at ornl.gov 
Oak Ridge National Laboratory        |   Phone: +1 (865) 574 3147    
http://www.csm.ornl.gov/~bernhold/   |   Fax:   +1 (865) 576 5491    

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar  1 02:01:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:01:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regular expressions in list config files?
In-Reply-To: <20080229232147.49899CAE7A@trunk.csm.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802291701170437b5f04106@msapiro>

bernholdtde at ornl.gov wrote:
>
>Here's the result: In applying header_filter_rules, it looks like the
>entire set of headers is being treated as a single multiline string.


That is correct.


>For reasons I don't entirely understand (remember I'm not a python
>expert), "^" and "$" are not matching the beginning and end of
>individual lines of a multiline string, even though I interpreted
>http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/matching-searching.html to say
>that they should, and a colleague who's very familiar with Python also
>thought they should.


It works for me. I just set a header_filter_rules regexp on a test list
to "^subject:.*hello.*$" with a reject action, and my test post with

Subject: test Hello in subject

was rejected with "Message rejected by filter rule match". In case
you're wondering, the Subject: was the 15th of 21 headers in the
message delivered to Mailman.

I then tested the regexp "^subject:\s+yes\s*$" with a post with

Subject: yes

and it too was caught.


>If I don't have the line beginning/ending constraints in the regex,
>there is a risk (albeit small) that a subject header could match.  So
>I ended up with "\nx-spam-flag:\s+yes\s*\n".


That should be equivalent to "^x-spam-flag:\s+yes\s*$" in
header_filter_rules. Does the actual search in your SpamDetect.py say

            if re.search(pattern, headers, re.IGNORECASE|re.MULTILINE):


>By the way, MM FAQ entry 3.32 and 3.51 are inconsistent about "^" and
>"$", and based on my experience 3.51 is wrong.


I have revised 3.32 which I think was the incorrect one, but we still
have to resolve why it works for me and not for you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Sat Mar  1 03:30:46 2008
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:30:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any way to batch unsubscribe notifications?
Message-ID: <fa37e76f0802291830o2d27d45dye0e0cdaa3fa3b11d@mail.gmail.com>

I'm working for a friend who asked me to set up mailman (2.1.9 on
Fedora Core 7) to replace a home-grown list server for one of his
clients. It's a small non-profit that has a little web-based
membership admin tool. For various reasons, they update the mailman
list with an export from the membership db. I have that working with
sync_members on a nightly basis. They then send out messages once a
week or so (the list is not a discussion, just for announcements).

They need a way to know when an address is bad, so they can go back
and fix or remove those bad addresses, in the membership db.

What I've done so far, which works almost perfectly, is to set up
automatic bounce processing to unsubscribe an address (with no
warnings) when its bounce score is 1.0, i.e., after any fatal error.
Then I have mailman notify the list admin of the unsubscribe, so he
can go and make the correction in the database.

The only problem is that a lot of their addresses are collected
manually, so there can be a lot of failures. Mailman sends these one
at a time, i.e. one unsubscribed address per notification message, and
not really all at once (although I'm sure that depends on how quickly
the bounce message comes back, too). Is it possible to get mailman to
batch the unsubscribed addresses once per day, and send them all out
in a single daily report? Or is there some other way to do this that
would work better than what I've come up with?

Thanks a lot,
Matt

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar  1 04:09:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:09:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any way to batch unsubscribe notifications?
In-Reply-To: <fa37e76f0802291830o2d27d45dye0e0cdaa3fa3b11d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802291909030750b5f04231@msapiro>

Matt Morgan wrote:
>
>The only problem is that a lot of their addresses are collected
>manually, so there can be a lot of failures. Mailman sends these one
>at a time, i.e. one unsubscribed address per notification message, and
>not really all at once (although I'm sure that depends on how quickly
>the bounce message comes back, too). Is it possible to get mailman to
>batch the unsubscribed addresses once per day, and send them all out
>in a single daily report? Or is there some other way to do this that
>would work better than what I've come up with?


You could turn the notices to the admin off and run a daily cron to
generate a summary from Mailman's subscribe log. All the bounce
deletes should have entries similar to

Feb 20 10:00:24 2008 (10510) listname: deleted user at example.com;
disabled address

You can also work off the bounce log which will have entries like

Feb 20 10:00:24 2008 (10510) listname: user at example.com disabling due
to bounce score 1.0 >= 1.0
Feb 20 10:00:24 2008 (10510) listname: user at example.com deleted after
exhausting notices


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar  1 04:53:15 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:53:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regular expressions in list config files?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802291701170437b5f04106@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802291953150468674bdc43@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>bernholdtde at ornl.gov wrote:
>>
>>Here's the result: In applying header_filter_rules, it looks like the
>>entire set of headers is being treated as a single multiline string.
>
>
>That is correct.
>
>
>>For reasons I don't entirely understand (remember I'm not a python
>>expert), "^" and "$" are not matching the beginning and end of
>>individual lines of a multiline string, even though I interpreted
>>http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/matching-searching.html to say
>>that they should, and a colleague who's very familiar with Python also
>>thought they should.
>
>
>It works for me.


I suspect you have an old Mailman version. Prior to Mailman 2.1.7, the
regular expression search was not multiline and therefore '^' and '$'
would only match the beginning and end respectively of the string of
all the headers.

I have updated FAQs 3.32 (again) and 3.51 to note the version
dependence.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar  1 04:55:42 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:55:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Interface for creating lists
In-Reply-To: <F2ACDFF5-9928-4D47-9025-25D3D1801061@reverson.net>
References: <F2ACDFF5-9928-4D47-9025-25D3D1801061@reverson.net>
Message-ID: <p06240808c3ee8428f501@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/29/08, Robert Everson wrote:

>  I would like a web interface for users to create lists, without giving
>  them access to the master mailman password.

You can have a separate list creator password.  No problem.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From perrylynch at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  1 10:45:16 2008
From: perrylynch at yahoo.com (Perry M Lynch)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:45:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] In need of help. Trying to recover from a serious
	buffer overflow
Message-ID: <580219.35069.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I'm list admin/moderator of a 450+ member list that ran into trouble yesterday.  
First, we're running Mailman 2.1.8 on a current release of OpenBSD. And it's been running for 2+ years with no issues, until this past Friday morning when the user db became corrupt.

Content filtering is set to remove all attachments and graphics, and we'd determined that more than 15 CCs would hold an inbound post to moderate. No message of more than 60 kb will be accepted. 

On Wednesday, a member submitted a large email with poor formatting to the list. And it had enough CCs attached to it that it caused a buffer overflow, which resulted in the message being self-approved for the list. Suddenly the server began repeating itself as it tried to process this huge message over and over again. It became a vicious cycle - as the one message finally repeated out, other messages that were caught in the queue became ammunition for the server to repeat. Prior to the system crash, more than 6100 duplicate messages were sent to 450 members, at an estimated peak rate of about 20,000 outbound messages per half hour. 

The user db became corrupt, and my server admin and I have worked to get things operational again. At this point, the list is supposedly behaving itself, yet no messages are actually being sent from the server. I don't have access to the raw logs, but here is the snippet of discussion about the restoration of the user database.

Jason: here's what I see on the server.

    # pwd
    /var/spool/mailman/lists/cyberscots
    # file * 
    config.pck:      data
    config.pck.last: data
    digest.mbox:     UTF-8 Unicode mail text
    en:              setgid directory
    pending.pck:     ASCII text
    request.pck:     data

and the restore at home...

    /backups/spool/mailman/lists/cyberscots
    # file *
    config.pck:      smtp mail text
    config.pck.last: smtp mail text
    digest.mbox:     ISO-8859 mail text
    en:              directory
    pending.pck:     smtp mail text
    request.pck:     data

the *.pck files from the restore all look like regular mbox files.
but the ones on the server are some sort of binary config file.
I checked against a different list, same thing.
on the server...
    /var/spool/mailman/lists/lynches
    # file *         
    config.pck:      data
    config.pck.last: data

we got a user db restored, at which point the gui became functional again, and we cleared the outbound queue, which had 1400+ messages that were blocked by a provider who'd had enough. And now, although I can send emails to the list, they do not seem to make it all the way through the process:

Feb 29 22:15:10 colo2 amavis[27834]: (27834-18) ESMTP::10024 /var/amavisd/tmp/amavis-20080229T194128-27834: <pmlynch at lbd.org> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net> Received: SIZE=3425 from mx1.dixongroup.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx1.dixongroup.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27834-18 for <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:15:10 -0500 (EST)
Feb 29 22:15:10 colo2 amavis[27834]: (27834-18) Checking: f8-BzF9WBjIQ <pmlynch at lbd.org> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>
Feb 29 22:15:11 colo2 amavis[27834]: (27834-18) FWD via SMTP: <pmlynch at lbd.org> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, 250 2.6.0 Ok, id=27834-18, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 2177591EC2
Feb 29 22:15:11 colo2 amavis[27834]: (27834-18) Passed CLEAN, [71.178.250.158] <pmlynch at lbd.org> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, Message-ID: <6F891DB1-E3FE-4EC1-8945-76CDC41D9236 at lbd.org>, mail_id: f8-BzF9WBjIQ, Hits: -, 671 ms
Feb 29 22:15:11 colo2 postfix/smtp[11051]: 7D8FD91EC1: to=<cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, orig_to=<Cyberscots at cluebringer.com>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=0.97, delays=0.28/0/0.01/0.68, dsn=2.6.0, status=sent (250 2.6.0 Ok, id=27834-18, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 2177591EC2)
Feb 29 22:15:11 colo2 postfix/local[406]: 2177591EC2: to=<cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, relay=local, delay=0.71, delays=0.21/0.1/0/0.4, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post cyberscots)
Feb 29 22:16:44 colo2 amavis[28675]: (28675-20) ESMTP::10024 /var/amavisd/tmp/amavis-20080229T193117-28675: <pmlynch at magellanhealth.com> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net> Received: SIZE=1846 from mx1.dixongroup.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx1.dixongroup.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28675-20 for <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:16:44 -0500 (EST)
Feb 29 22:16:45 colo2 amavis[28675]: (28675-20) Checking: efIbYYLyUd73 <pmlynch at magellanhealth.com> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>
Feb 29 22:16:46 colo2 amavis[28675]: (28675-20) FWD via SMTP: <pmlynch at magellanhealth.com> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, 250 2.6.0 Ok, id=28675-20, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 09BAE91EC2
Feb 29 22:16:46 colo2 amavis[28675]: (28675-20) Passed CLEAN, [204.193.93.43] <pmlynch at magellanhealth.com> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, Message-ID: <3F84D5A4D6A79946B4A3A9A00529883B06447C2E at colmdex5.mbh.mhs.magellanhealth.com>, mail_id: efIbYYLyUd73, Hits: -2.417, 1324 ms
Feb 29 22:16:46 colo2 postfix/smtp[11051]: DB1A691EC1: to=<cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, orig_to=<cyberscots at cluebringer.com>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=1.5, delays=0.13/0/0.01/1.3, dsn=2.6.0, status=sent (250 2.6.0 Ok, id=28675-20, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 09BAE91EC2)
Feb 29 22:16:46 colo2 postfix/local[406]: 09BAE91EC2: to=<cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, relay=local, delay=0.8, delays=0.2/0/0/0.6, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post cyberscots)

In short, it looks as if messages are being received, and they are being delivered to the outbound queue, but nothing is happening beyond that point. 
Any ideas? Please help!

Thank you,
Perry



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar  1 17:18:45 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 08:18:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] In need of help. Trying to recover from a
	seriousbuffer overflow
In-Reply-To: <580219.35069.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008030108184505784dd48c2f@msapiro>

Perry M Lynch wrote:
>
>On Wednesday, a member submitted a large email with poor formatting to the list. And it had enough CCs attached to it that it caused a buffer overflow, which resulted in the message being self-approved for the list.


Do you have evidence that this is what happened, or is this just
conjecture?


>Suddenly the server began repeating itself as it tried to process this huge message over and over again. It became a vicious cycle - as the one message finally repeated out, other messages that were caught in the queue became ammunition for the server to repeat. Prior to the system crash, more than 6100 duplicate messages were sent to 450 members, at an estimated peak rate of about 20,000 outbound messages per half hour. 
>
>The user db became corrupt, and my server admin and I have worked to get things operational again. At this point, the list is supposedly behaving itself, yet no messages are actually being sent from the server. I don't have access to the raw logs,


Which is unfortunate, because that's what we need to see to determine
what happened. I would like to see Mailman's error, post, qrunner,
smtp, smtp-failure and vette logs from the time of the original
failure to try to see what happened and if there is a Mailman bug of
some kind that allowed it. Can you get these logs from the server
admin?


>but here is the snippet of discussion about the restoration of the user database.
>
>Jason: here's what I see on the server.
>
>    # pwd
>    /var/spool/mailman/lists/cyberscots
>    # file * 
>    config.pck:      data
>    config.pck.last: data
>    digest.mbox:     UTF-8 Unicode mail text
>    en:              setgid directory
>    pending.pck:     ASCII text
>    request.pck:     data
>
>and the restore at home...
>
>    /backups/spool/mailman/lists/cyberscots
>    # file *
>    config.pck:      smtp mail text
>    config.pck.last: smtp mail text
>    digest.mbox:     ISO-8859 mail text
>    en:              directory
>    pending.pck:     smtp mail text
>    request.pck:     data
>
>the *.pck files from the restore all look like regular mbox files.


Which is totally wrong, because they should be Python pickles.


>but the ones on the server are some sort of binary config file.


Which is what they should be.


>I checked against a different list, same thing.
>on the server...
>    /var/spool/mailman/lists/lynches
>    # file *         
>    config.pck:      data
>    config.pck.last: data
>
>we got a user db restored,


What user db? In standard Mailman, the user db, list config, etc. is
all part of the list object saved in the config.pck. Do you have a
custom MemberAdaptor that uses a different, separate user db? or are
you just referring to the config.pck?


>at which point the gui became functional again, and we cleared the outbound queue,


Mailman's out queue or the Postfix queue?


>which had 1400+ messages that were blocked by a provider who'd had enough. And now, although I can send emails to the list, they do not seem to make it all the way through the process:


Is Mailman running? See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>.



>Feb 29 22:15:10 colo2 amavis[27834]: (27834-18) ESMTP::10024 /var/amavisd/tmp/amavis-20080229T194128-27834: <pmlynch at lbd.org> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net> Received: SIZE=3425 from mx1.dixongroup.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx1.dixongroup.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27834-18 for <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:15:10 -0500 (EST)
>Feb 29 22:15:10 colo2 amavis[27834]: (27834-18) Checking: f8-BzF9WBjIQ <pmlynch at lbd.org> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>
>Feb 29 22:15:11 colo2 amavis[27834]: (27834-18) FWD via SMTP: <pmlynch at lbd.org> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, 250 2.6.0 Ok, id=27834-18, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 2177591EC2
>Feb 29 22:15:11 colo2 amavis[27834]: (27834-18) Passed CLEAN, [71.178.250.158] <pmlynch at lbd.org> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, Message-ID: <6F891DB1-E3FE-4EC1-8945-76CDC41D9236 at lbd.org>, mail_id: f8-BzF9WBjIQ, Hits: -, 671 ms
>Feb 29 22:15:11 colo2 postfix/smtp[11051]: 7D8FD91EC1: to=<cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, orig_to=<Cyberscots at cluebringer.com>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=0.97, delays=0.28/0/0.01/0.68, dsn=2.6.0, status=sent (250 2.6.0 Ok, id=27834-18, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 2177591EC2)
>Feb 29 22:15:11 colo2 postfix/local[406]: 2177591EC2: to=<cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, relay=local, delay=0.71, delays=0.21/0.1/0/0.4, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post cyberscots)


OK. The post was delivered to the Mailman wrapper.

<snip>
>
>In short, it looks as if messages are being received, and they are being delivered to the outbound queue, but nothing is happening beyond that point. 


Actually, they are being delivered to Mailman's mail wrapper which
terminates normally. This means they have been queued in Mailman's
incoming queue. See the FAQ linked above for the next steps (you can
skip steps 2 and 3 because this is Postfix, and we know delivery to
Mailman is working).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com  Sat Mar  1 22:10:47 2008
From: kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com (Kelly Jones)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:10:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Whitelisting members of sublists?
Message-ID: <26face530803011310s51d7ae2fnc3a890bb397f48c0@mail.gmail.com>

I have a list X that contains two sub-lists: Y and Z.

The members of Y can post to Y w/o being held, and the members of Z
can post to Z w/o being held.

However, if a Y member posts to X, his message is held, since he's not
directly on X (he's on Y, which is on X, so he's only indirectly on X).

Is there an easy fix for this? Does Mailman understand the concept of
"sublists", or does it treat sublists as just regular email addresses?
Can I make Mailman think "hey, this email address on this list is
coming to my domain and it's the name of another list I manage-- I'll
treat it special"?

I realize I can whitelist on a one-off basis or even script something
to run in cron, but that's ugly for a general solution.

--
We're just a Bunch Of Regular Guys, a collective group that's trying
to understand and assimilate technology. We feel that resistance to
new ideas and technology is unwise and ultimately futile.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar  1 23:41:10 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:41:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Whitelisting members of sublists?
In-Reply-To: <26face530803011310s51d7ae2fnc3a890bb397f48c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080301144110029678d05272@msapiro>

Kelly Jones wrote:

>I have a list X that contains two sub-lists: Y and Z.
>
>The members of Y can post to Y w/o being held, and the members of Z
>can post to Z w/o being held.
>
>However, if a Y member posts to X, his message is held, since he's not
>directly on X (he's on Y, which is on X, so he's only indirectly on X).
>
>Is there an easy fix for this? Does Mailman understand the concept of
>"sublists", or does it treat sublists as just regular email addresses?


Mailman treats sublists as just regular email addresses.

There is a patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
which allows you to put for example, @Y and @Z in list X's
accept_these_nonmembers. This will do what you want, although you may
also need to put @Y in Z's accept_these_nonmembers and vice versa.

This feature is in the base for Mailman 2.1.10 (now in beta).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Brandon at WebsterRidge.com  Sun Mar  2 01:27:49 2008
From: Brandon at WebsterRidge.com (Brandon Sussman)
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 19:27:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] converting an ezmlm archive
Message-ID: <47C9F485.8050006@WebsterRidge.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

A 15 minute attempt to find doc on how to convert an ezmlm archive to
mailman is not showing much promise.

Without me personally writing a converter, is there any recent wisdom on
doing this?
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iQEVAwUBR8n0hdN2DJl/zagkAQJzjgf9FmFz956SOgxNeCkOMVlsFcJu8agjK1Zt
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kH4HUJmoJYsJtrgdV0vpDOq3s2CYhbsAwpzZmJwwS2z7/iAGAQifBg==
=TX7M
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From tmz at pobox.com  Sun Mar  2 03:11:26 2008
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:11:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] converting an ezmlm archive
In-Reply-To: <47C9F485.8050006@WebsterRidge.com>
References: <47C9F485.8050006@WebsterRidge.com>
Message-ID: <20080302021126.GD14250@inocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Brandon Sussman wrote:
> A 15 minute attempt to find doc on how to convert an ezmlm archive
> to mailman is not showing much promise.
> 
> Without me personally writing a converter, is there any recent
> wisdom on doing this?

You should just need to convert the exmlm archive to mbox, then import
it into mailman using the procedure here:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq05.001.htp

A quick search for tools to convert ezmlm to mbox yielded a few
results.  One was:

http://www.arctic.org/~dean/scripts/ezmlm2mbox

Hopefully that gets you started at least. :)

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The sunshine bores the daylights out of me.
Chasing shadows moonlight mystery.

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From spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com  Mon Mar  3 00:18:54 2008
From: spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com (Spyro Polymiadis)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 09:18:54 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] March's Private Archive...
Message-ID: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A0EDC5E6883@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>

Hi All,

We've had mailman running here for about 8 months.. and it seems as though there has not been any mail archived so far this month..there has been plently of traffic to the our lists in the last couple days.. and normally the emails are shown in the archives within minutes of the email being sent..

They are set up as private archives, so only list members/moderators/admins can view them.

Any thoughts as to why all of a sudden no archiving is taking place?

Cheers
Spyro

________________________________



This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments, which does not relate to the official business of the sending company must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by the sending company or any of its related entities. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  3 01:41:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 16:41:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] March's Private Archive...
In-Reply-To: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A0EDC5E6883@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080302164139089003245be1@msapiro>

Spyro Polymiadis wrote:
>
>We've had mailman running here for about 8 months.. and it seems as though there has not been any mail archived so far this month..there has been plently of traffic to the our lists in the last couple days.. and normally the emails are shown in the archives within minutes of the email being sent..
>


Has ArchRunner died? Are the messages still in Mailman's archive queue?

Does "ps -fAw | grep python" (or however you spell it) show all the
runners? See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>
sec 1b and 5b for information on what you should see.

If ArchRunner is not running, see Mailman's qrunner and error logs for
more info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com  Mon Mar  3 02:09:28 2008
From: spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com (Spyro Polymiadis)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:09:28 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] March's Private Archive...
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080302164139089003245be1@msapiro>
References: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A0EDC5E6883@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>
	<PC176020080302164139089003245be1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A0EDC5E68E5@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>

Thanks for the info Mark..

Theres heaps of messages in the archive queue directory..
All qrunners and processes seem to be fine, and the error log/qrunner log she literally nothing out of the ordinary..

The steps in the faq also were ok... is there a way to flush/force the archive queue?

So.. still no luck ..

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
> Sent: Monday, 3 March 2008 11:12 AM
> To: Spyro Polymiadis; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] March's Private Archive...
>
> Spyro Polymiadis wrote:
> >
> >We've had mailman running here for about 8 months.. and it seems as
> though there has not been any mail archived so far this month..there
> has been plently of traffic to the our lists in the last couple days..
> and normally the emails are shown in the archives within minutes of the
> email being sent..
> >
>
>
> Has ArchRunner died? Are the messages still in Mailman's archive queue?
>
> Does "ps -fAw | grep python" (or however you spell it) show all the
> runners? See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>
> sec 1b and 5b for information on what you should see.
>
> If ArchRunner is not running, see Mailman's qrunner and error logs for
> more info.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments, which does not relate to the official business of the sending company must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by the sending company or any of its related entities. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect.

From spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com  Mon Mar  3 02:29:52 2008
From: spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com (Spyro Polymiadis)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:29:52 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] March's Private Archive...
In-Reply-To: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A0EDC5E68E5@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>
References: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A0EDC5E6883@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>
	<PC176020080302164139089003245be1@msapiro>
	<668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A0EDC5E68E5@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>
Message-ID: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A0EDC5E6900@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>

After a little digging.. it seemed a file in the queue had halted the archiver or something..
I moved all messages out of the queue and restarted mailman and dropped files back in there a few at a time.
They are now processing again.... weird..

Thanks :)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+spyropolymiadis=kromestudios.com at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-
> bounces+spyropolymiadis=kromestudios.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Spyro
> Polymiadis
> Sent: Monday, 3 March 2008 11:39 AM
> To: Mark Sapiro; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] March's Private Archive...
>
> Thanks for the info Mark..
>
> Theres heaps of messages in the archive queue directory..
> All qrunners and processes seem to be fine, and the error log/qrunner
> log she literally nothing out of the ordinary..
>
> The steps in the faq also were ok... is there a way to flush/force the
> archive queue?
>
> So.. still no luck ..
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
> > Sent: Monday, 3 March 2008 11:12 AM
> > To: Spyro Polymiadis; mailman-users at python.org
> > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] March's Private Archive...
> >
> > Spyro Polymiadis wrote:
> > >
> > >We've had mailman running here for about 8 months.. and it seems as
> > though there has not been any mail archived so far this month..there
> > has been plently of traffic to the our lists in the last couple
> days..
> > and normally the emails are shown in the archives within minutes of
> the
> > email being sent..
> > >
> >
> >
> > Has ArchRunner died? Are the messages still in Mailman's archive
> queue?
> >
> > Does "ps -fAw | grep python" (or however you spell it) show all the
> > runners? See
> > <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-
> mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>
> > sec 1b and 5b for information on what you should see.
> >
> > If ArchRunner is not running, see Mailman's qrunner and error logs
> for
> > more info.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> > San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B.
> Dylan
>
>
>
>
>
> This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or
> confidential information. This message is intended for the use of the
> individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the
> addressee indicated in this message, or the employee or agent
> responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you
> may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone.
> Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments
> and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this
> message and its attachments, which does not relate to the official
> business of the sending company must be taken not to have been sent or
> endorsed by the sending company or any of its related entities. No
> warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from
> computer virus or other defect.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
> users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/spyropolymiadis%40kromestudios.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-
> mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp




This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments, which does not relate to the official business of the sending company must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by the sending company or any of its related entities. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  3 03:29:40 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 18:29:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] March's Private Archive...
In-Reply-To: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A0EDC5E6900@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803021829400640b08bc2a8@msapiro>

Spyro Polymiadis wrote:

>After a little digging.. it seemed a file in the queue had halted the archiver or something..
>I moved all messages out of the queue and restarted mailman and dropped files back in there a few at a time.
>They are now processing again.... weird..


Assuming you didn't find any problem messages, I suspect ArchRunner was
just in a coma for unknown reason. I suspect just restarting mailman
or even just sending a SIGHUP to ArchRunner might have got it going.

If it was a message that was the problem the situation would depend on
the Mailman version. Pre 2.1.9, the problem message was dequeued and
was at least partially lost when you restarted Mailman. The message is
probably missing from the HTML archive, but may be in the
listname.mbox/listname.mbox file. Beginning with Mailman 2.1.9, the
message would have been still in the queue as a .bak file. If the .bak
file was in the queue when Mailman was restarted, it would have been
processed. If it had been removed from the queue when Mailman was
restarted and later put back, it is probably still in the queue until
the next time ArchRunner restarts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bernholdtde at ornl.gov  Mon Mar  3 16:57:09 2008
From: bernholdtde at ornl.gov (bernholdtde at ornl.gov)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:57:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regular expressions in list config files?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802291953150468674bdc43@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080303155709.3ED13CA354@trunk.csm.ornl.gov>

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:53:15 -0800  Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I suspect you have an old Mailman version. Prior to Mailman 2.1.7, the
> regular expression search was not multiline

That's the answer, I'm using 2.1.5 from RHEL 4.

Thanks very much for your help with this!
--
David E. Bernholdt                   |   Email: bernholdtde at ornl.gov 
Oak Ridge National Laboratory        |   Phone: +1 (865) 574 3147    
http://www.csm.ornl.gov/~bernhold/   |   Fax:   +1 (865) 576 5491    

From ivanlan9 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  3 18:45:56 2008
From: ivanlan9 at gmail.com (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 10:45:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Yahoo/Mailman
Message-ID: <ba5cdc4b0803030945u5b05342bvf3351360a3011c84@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All--
One of my lists is moving to Yahoo, and I'm wondering if there is a
way to integrate the Mailman archives with the Yahoo archives.  I can
always post the zip files in the files section, but it would make the
transition easier for the listmembers if the archives could be
integrated.

Since this isn't very on-topic, please reply offlist.

Thanks!

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Mar  3 20:13:59 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:13:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Yahoo/Mailman
In-Reply-To: <ba5cdc4b0803030945u5b05342bvf3351360a3011c84@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ba5cdc4b0803030945u5b05342bvf3351360a3011c84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240805c3f1fdeca6c4@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/3/08, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

>  One of my lists is moving to Yahoo, and I'm wondering if there is a
>  way to integrate the Mailman archives with the Yahoo archives.  I can
>  always post the zip files in the files section, but it would make the
>  transition easier for the listmembers if the archives could be
>  integrated.

Mailman keeps the raw archives in 7th edition mbox format, which 
might potentially be something that could be imported into Yahoo! 
groups.  You'd have to ask them to be sure.

In some cases, site admins do not configure Mailman to keep both raw 
archives and send messages to the "cooked" archive processor (either 
the built-in pipermail or an external archiver like mhonarc), so you 
might have to reconstruct the archives into a format that Yahoo! can 
import.


The big thing you'll need to find out is whether or not Yahoo! is 
actually capable of importing any archives, or if you will have to 
provide that information in some other way.

And that's not something we can help you with.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From perrylynch at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  3 21:16:54 2008
From: perrylynch at yahoo.com (Perry M Lynch)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:16:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thank you! And a suggestion/feature request?
Message-ID: <396481.80893.qm@web53604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I want to thank you for pointing us in the right direction, and also for taking the time to answer my plea for help.

To answer your questions: 
1. No, I don't have proof positive that a buffer overrun was the cause of my troubles, but it seems to fit the situation too well to not be. What I didn't realize when I originally posted my call for help is that it also had a fairly large image attached as well. Between the formatting, the file, and the CC's I'm relatively sure that it was sufficient to force the overrun. I will ask the admin for the logs, and forward them on to you privately, if that's OK. If we've uncovered a bug, I definitely want to help improve things!

2. I'm not aware of any custom config-work in this implementation. It's a standard mailman running on BSD, with just a few lists - the other lists were untouched by this, fortunately! It may have been the admin's attempt to 'dumb it down' for me that makes this confusing after the fact.

Your suggestion to review the postfix settings got me looking in the right place. Long and short of it: I was able to use postfixadmin to delete and the re-create the aliases in postfix, at which point, everything started running as normal.

Now for the suggestion/feature request(s):
1 - would it be possible to add a "show all list members" view, and sort them by their status in each column? Actually, just being able to sort any given letter by their various status settings would be tremendous - all no mails, all no duplicates, etc in a row.

2 - What would be an incredibly powerful tool to the non-technical list admin would be the ability to download a text file of listmembers and their status settings. just a simple txt file, showing name, email address, and their basic digest/no mail/ moderated/plain text settings would be a wonderful thing. I'd be thrilled if just the name and email address would be available this way!

Thanks,
Perry
----- 
Perry M Lynch, CISSP CISA 
JNCIA-FWV, RSA CSE (SecurID), CCNA 
"why yes, I am certifiable..."
-----

----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
To: Perry M Lynch <perrylynch at yahoo.com>; mailman-users at python.org
Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:18:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] In need of help. Trying to recover from a seriousbuffer overflow

Perry M Lynch wrote:
>
>On Wednesday, a member submitted a large email with poor formatting to the list. And it had enough CCs attached to it that it caused a buffer overflow, which resulted in the message being self-approved for the list.


Do you have evidence that this is what happened, or is this just
conjecture?


>Suddenly the server began repeating itself as it tried to process this huge message over and over again. It became a vicious cycle - as the one message finally repeated out, other messages that were caught in the queue became ammunition for the server to repeat. Prior to the system crash, more than 6100 duplicate messages were sent to 450 members, at an estimated peak rate of about 20,000 outbound messages per half hour. 
>
>The user db became corrupt, and my server admin and I have worked to get things operational again. At this point, the list is supposedly behaving itself, yet no messages are actually being sent from the server. I don't have access to the raw logs,


Which is unfortunate, because that's what we need to see to determine
what happened. I would like to see Mailman's error, post, qrunner,
smtp, smtp-failure and vette logs from the time of the original
failure to try to see what happened and if there is a Mailman bug of
some kind that allowed it. Can you get these logs from the server
admin?


>but here is the snippet of discussion about the restoration of the user database.
>
>Jason: here's what I see on the server.
>
>    # pwd
>    /var/spool/mailman/lists/cyberscots
>    # file * 
>    config.pck:      data
>    config.pck.last: data
>    digest.mbox:     UTF-8 Unicode mail text
>    en:              setgid directory
>    pending.pck:     ASCII text
>    request.pck:     data
>
>and the restore at home...
>
>    /backups/spool/mailman/lists/cyberscots
>    # file *
>    config.pck:      smtp mail text
>    config.pck.last: smtp mail text
>    digest.mbox:     ISO-8859 mail text
>    en:              directory
>    pending.pck:     smtp mail text
>    request.pck:     data
>
>the *.pck files from the restore all look like regular mbox files.


Which is totally wrong, because they should be Python pickles.


>but the ones on the server are some sort of binary config file.


Which is what they should be.


>I checked against a different list, same thing.
>on the server...
>    /var/spool/mailman/lists/lynches
>    # file *         
>    config.pck:      data
>    config.pck.last: data
>
>we got a user db restored,


What user db? In standard Mailman, the user db, list config, etc. is
all part of the list object saved in the config.pck. Do you have a
custom MemberAdaptor that uses a different, separate user db? or are
you just referring to the config.pck?


>at which point the gui became functional again, and we cleared the outbound queue,


Mailman's out queue or the Postfix queue?


>which had 1400+ messages that were blocked by a provider who'd had enough. And now, although I can send emails to the list, they do not seem to make it all the way through the process:


Is Mailman running? See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>.



>Feb 29 22:15:10 colo2 amavis[27834]: (27834-18) ESMTP::10024 /var/amavisd/tmp/amavis-20080229T194128-27834: <pmlynch at lbd.org> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net> Received: SIZE=3425 from mx1.dixongroup.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx1.dixongroup.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27834-18 for <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:15:10 -0500 (EST)
>Feb 29 22:15:10 colo2 amavis[27834]: (27834-18) Checking: f8-BzF9WBjIQ <pmlynch at lbd.org> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>
>Feb 29 22:15:11 colo2 amavis[27834]: (27834-18) FWD via SMTP: <pmlynch at lbd.org> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, 250 2.6.0 Ok, id=27834-18, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 2177591EC2
>Feb 29 22:15:11 colo2 amavis[27834]: (27834-18) Passed CLEAN, [71.178.250.158] <pmlynch at lbd.org> -> <cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, Message-ID: <6F891DB1-E3FE-4EC1-8945-76CDC41D9236 at lbd.org>, mail_id: f8-BzF9WBjIQ, Hits: -, 671 ms
>Feb 29 22:15:11 colo2 postfix/smtp[11051]: 7D8FD91EC1: to=<cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, orig_to=<Cyberscots at cluebringer.com>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=0.97, delays=0.28/0/0.01/0.68, dsn=2.6.0, status=sent (250 2.6.0 Ok, id=27834-18, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 2177591EC2)
>Feb 29 22:15:11 colo2 postfix/local[406]: 2177591EC2: to=<cyberscots.cluebringer.com at localhost.dixongroup.net>, relay=local, delay=0.71, delays=0.21/0.1/0/0.4, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post cyberscots)


OK. The post was delivered to the Mailman wrapper.

<snip>
>
>In short, it looks as if messages are being received, and they are being delivered to the outbound queue, but nothing is happening beyond that point. 


Actually, they are being delivered to Mailman's mail wrapper which
terminates normally. This means they have been queued in Mailman's
incoming queue. See the FAQ linked above for the next steps (you can
skip steps 2 and 3 because this is Postfix, and we know delivery to
Mailman is working).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan








      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  3 22:14:05 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:14:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thank you! And a suggestion/feature request?
In-Reply-To: <396481.80893.qm@web53604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803031314050390b09eafeb@msapiro>

Perry M Lynch wrote:
>
>To answer your questions: 
>1. No, I don't have proof positive that a buffer overrun was the cause of my troubles, but it seems to fit the situation too well to not be. 


Python does not allocate fixed buffers for things, so a buffer overrun
is not a likely scenario.


>What I didn't realize when I originally posted my call for help is that it also had a fairly large image attached as well. Between the formatting, the file, and the CC's I'm relatively sure that it was sufficient to force the overrun. I will ask the admin for the logs, and forward them on to you privately, if that's OK. If we've uncovered a bug, I definitely want to help improve things!


I am definitely interested in seeing the logs and would appreciate your
forwarding them to me if that is possible.

What happened in your case is definitely atypical. The usual thing that
happens when messages are too large to handle properly is that the
underlying Python support throws a MemoryError exception and depending
on exactly where this happens, the message might be lost or moved to
the shunt queue.

If in fact, it was the size or any other characteristic of the message
that caused Mailman to go berserk and accept a message that should
have been held and start sending duplicates, I definitely want to try
to understand what happened and fix it.


<snip>

>Now for the suggestion/feature request(s):
>1 - would it be possible to add a "show all list members" view, and sort them by their status in each column? Actually, just being able to sort any given letter by their various status settings would be tremendous - all no mails, all no duplicates, etc in a row.

See 2.

>2 - What would be an incredibly powerful tool to the non-technical list admin would be the ability to download a text file of listmembers and their status settings. just a simple txt file, showing name, email address, and their basic digest/no mail/ moderated/plain text settings would be a wonderful thing. I'd be thrilled if just the name and email address would be available this way!


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>
for a link to a python script that you can run on your work station
(after installing python <http://www.python.org/>) to screen scrape
the web admin interface and produce a CSV file of members and settings.

I will consider adding this feature as a direct export in some future
Mailman (2.2 or later).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kewlpcs at hotmail.com  Tue Mar  4 09:38:39 2008
From: kewlpcs at hotmail.com (Michael James Wright)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 18:38:39 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] images in a feedback page
Message-ID: <BAY107-W5259DC926D70F7A36B8CB7BA100@phx.gbl>

Hi Guys i'm creating a php contact page i have a submit image and a clear image but don't seam to work here the code 
 
<input type="image" src="images/submit.jpg">
 
<input type="image" src="images/submit.jpg">
 
both of the images keep going to http://www.stormsearchers.com/sendeail.php the clear image dose not clear the contact page 
 
Mike
_________________________________________________________________
Overpaid or Underpaid? Check our comprehensive Salary Centre
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent%2Emycareer%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fsalary%2Dcentre%3Fs%5Fcid%3D595810&_t=766724125&_r=Hotmail_Email_Tagline_MyCareer_Oct07&_m=EXT

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Mar  4 17:15:21 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 08:15:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] images in a feedback page
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-W5259DC926D70F7A36B8CB7BA100@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY107-W5259DC926D70F7A36B8CB7BA100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200803041615.m24GFIue006347@unreal.eroded.org>

Michael James Wright sent the message below at 00:38 3/4/2008:
>Hi Guys i'm creating a php contact page i have a submit image and a 
>clear image but don't seam to work here the code
>
><input type="image" src="images/submit.jpg">
>
><input type="image" src="images/submit.jpg">
>
>both of the images keep going to 
>http://www.stormsearchers.com/sendeail.php the clear image dose not 
>clear the contact page
>
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

And precisely what does this have to do with Mailman?

I'd suggest finding a forum or list dedicated to web development to 
ask such questions.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From ACrosman at afsc.org  Mon Mar  3 20:50:26 2008
From: ACrosman at afsc.org (Aaron Crosman)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:50:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems after changing server network setup
Message-ID: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC704521CD1@DELTA.AFSC.local>

Earlier today, for various reasons, we had to move our Mailman server to
a different segment of our network.  This changed the internal IP, and
several other network details (although I don't think any others that
impact mailman).  Starting just after I made the move, I am not getting
a large number of error messages in the error log that look like this:

 

Mar 03 12:40:53 2008 (2881) Uncaught runner exception: No terminating
boundary and no trailing empty line

Mar 03 12:40:53 2008 (2881) Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop

    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 164, in
dequeue

    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 51, in
message_from_string

    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in
parsestr

    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse

    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in
_parsebody

    msgobj = self.parsestr(part)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in
parsestr

    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse

    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 265, in
_parsebody

    msg = self.parse(fp)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse

    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 206, in
_parsebody

    raise Errors.BoundaryError(

BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no trailing empty line

 

Mar 03 12:40:53 2008 (2881) Ignoring unparseable message:
1178048805.0749691+0654fbb7bc97eff421d692fe6978466fca6d68c1

 

Mail appears to be going through, but since these messages are new, they
make me nervous that I missed something in the move.  I reconfigured
exim and Mailman and replaced all references to the old IP with the new.
All the other functions appear to be working.  Any suggestions about
what's going on, and if a I need to be worried?

 

Thanks

Aaron Crosman

American Friends Service Committee

Information Technology Department

 

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  4 20:16:21 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:16:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems after changing server network setup
In-Reply-To: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC704521CD1@DELTA.AFSC.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803041116210625959ff806@msapiro>

Aaron Crosman wrote:

>Earlier today, for various reasons, we had to move our Mailman server to
>a different segment of our network.  This changed the internal IP, and
>several other network details (although I don't think any others that
>impact mailman).  Starting just after I made the move, I am not getting
>a large number of error messages in the error log that look like this:
>
> 
>
>Mar 03 12:40:53 2008 (2881) Uncaught runner exception: No terminating
>boundary and no trailing empty line

<snip>

>Mar 03 12:40:53 2008 (2881) Ignoring unparseable message:
>1178048805.0749691+0654fbb7bc97eff421d692fe6978466fca6d68c1
>
> 
>
>Mail appears to be going through, but since these messages are new, they
>make me nervous that I missed something in the move.  I reconfigured
>exim and Mailman and replaced all references to the old IP with the new.
>All the other functions appear to be working.  Any suggestions about
>what's going on, and if a I need to be worried?


These are caused by malformed MIME messages that can't be parsed by the
Python email library. They are almost certainly spam. Perhaps your
prior configuration did a better job of spam filtering ahead of
Mailman.

In your case, whatever message was queued as
1178048805.0749691+0654fbb7bc97eff421d692fe6978466fca6d68c1.pck is
irrecoverably gone, but as I said, it was most likely spam anyway.

Beginning in Mailman 2.1.10, the queue entry is moved aside so you can
actually see the message if you want.

If you are concerned, you could find the MTA log entries that show
delivery to Mailman, and at least see the sender of the message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Thu Mar  6 00:36:54 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 18:36:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2008 Pizzigati Prize
Message-ID: <BB00C13C-8909-4711-9205-43F336D8248E@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I realize that I've been remiss in announcing this.  My apologies.

I have been awarded the 2008 Pizzigati Prize for Public Interest  
Computing for GNU Mailman.

http://www.pizzigatiprize.org/

I am deeply honored to win this prize because I believe very strongly  
in Mailman's role in helping people communicate and organize.  I want  
to thank all of you who have supported me and Mailman over the years,  
and I want to let you know that I am as excited as ever about where  
Mailman is going.  One of the most satisfying aspects of this project  
for me has been meeting you, the users, developers and contributors to  
Mailman, both online and face-to-face.

I'm looking forward to meeting the Pizzigati family and having some  
time to spend with them learning about Anthony's remarkable life,  
sadly cut too short.

So again, thank you all and I'm looking forward to the next 10 years  
of GNU Mailman!

Cheers,
- -Barry

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kuMAoIfeC0j0+4f8l0GEOp2gYc7a+8MI
=Y7nZ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From brian at emwd.com  Thu Mar  6 02:53:34 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:53:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2008 Pizzigati Prize
In-Reply-To: <BB00C13C-8909-4711-9205-43F336D8248E@list.org>
References: <BB00C13C-8909-4711-9205-43F336D8248E@list.org>
Message-ID: <00b101c87f2c$e4f1a770$aed4f650$@com>

> I realize that I've been remiss in announcing this.  My apologies.
> 
> I have been awarded the 2008 Pizzigati Prize for Public Interest
> Computing for GNU Mailman.
> 
> http://www.pizzigatiprize.org/
> 
> I am deeply honored to win this prize because I believe very strongly
> in Mailman's role in helping people communicate and organize.  I want
> to thank all of you who have supported me and Mailman over the years,
> and I want to let you know that I am as excited as ever about where
> Mailman is going.  One of the most satisfying aspects of this project
> for me has been meeting you, the users, developers and contributors to
> Mailman, both online and face-to-face.
> 
> I'm looking forward to meeting the Pizzigati family and having some
> time to spend with them learning about Anthony's remarkable life,
> sadly cut too short.
> 
> So again, thank you all and I'm looking forward to the next 10 years
> of GNU Mailman!
> 
> Cheers,
> - -Barry
> 

Congratulations Barry! Definitely well deserved! 

I for one can testify how important mailman has become to the communication
needs of our clients. Many of our clients come from the medical community
and they have found out how valuable mailman is for their collaboration
efforts, including breast cancer research.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


From egearhart at dakotacom.net  Thu Mar  6 18:01:29 2008
From: egearhart at dakotacom.net (Eric Gearhart)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:01:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2008 Pizzigati Prize
In-Reply-To: <BB00C13C-8909-4711-9205-43F336D8248E@list.org>
References: <BB00C13C-8909-4711-9205-43F336D8248E@list.org>
Message-ID: <47D02369.2020508@dakotacom.net>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> I realize that I've been remiss in announcing this.  My apologies.
> 
> I have been awarded the 2008 Pizzigati Prize for Public Interest  
> Computing for GNU Mailman.
> 
> http://www.pizzigatiprize.org/

I'd just like to drop a note to thank you for Mailman. The project has
helped me immensely in many ways, the biggest being simplifying log
files and who gets notified when something goes down (do you can about
knowing if SMTP is down? Don't add your email address to the config
file, subscribe to the "logs" mailing list!)

Congrats for the much deserved award, and thanks. Long live OSS! :-)
Eric Gearhart
http://nixwizard.net


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Thu Mar  6 19:28:09 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:28:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2008 Pizzigati Prize
In-Reply-To: <47D02369.2020508@dakotacom.net>
References: <BB00C13C-8909-4711-9205-43F336D8248E@list.org>
	<47D02369.2020508@dakotacom.net>
Message-ID: <47D037B9.2070607@Media-Brokers.com>

On 3/6/2008, Eric Gearhart (egearhart at dakotacom.net) wrote:
> I'd just like to drop a note to thank you for Mailman. The project has
> helped me immensely in many ways, the biggest being simplifying log
> files and who gets notified when something goes down (do you can about
> knowing if SMTP is down? Don't add your email address to the config
> file, subscribe to the "logs" mailing list!)

Interesting... what is this 'logs' list? Is it some kind of internal 
mailman list? I don't see it in my 'lists' data directory...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  6 19:28:33 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:28:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2008 Pizzigati Prize
In-Reply-To: <BB00C13C-8909-4711-9205-43F336D8248E@list.org>
References: <BB00C13C-8909-4711-9205-43F336D8248E@list.org>
Message-ID: <47D037D1.8030803@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Barry Warsaw wrote:
|
| I have been awarded the 2008 Pizzigati Prize for Public Interest
| Computing for GNU Mailman.
|
| http://www.pizzigatiprize.org/


That's Awesome!

I'm extremely happy to be associated with this project.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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=umQE
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From guilherme.funchal at gmail.com  Thu Mar  6 20:09:47 2008
From: guilherme.funchal at gmail.com (Guilherme Funchal)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 16:09:47 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] howto
Message-ID: <e368268e0803061109w54fbb9bk9f0fb4fb25f9d6dc@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!
How to run a two or more daemons mailman and howto configure with postfix?
is This possible?


regards

-- 
"Um homem de honra ? aquele que vive segundo as regras e, se for necess?rio,
morre por elas. "
==============================
Guilherme Funchal da Silva .`.
LPI Level 2 Certification

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  6 20:28:43 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 11:28:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] howto
In-Reply-To: <e368268e0803061109w54fbb9bk9f0fb4fb25f9d6dc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803061128430703e015286a@msapiro>

Guilherme Funchal wrote:

>How to run a two or more daemons mailman and howto configure with postfix?
>is This possible?


Yes, this is possible. You need to configure/install each Mailman
instance with it's own unique $prefix. You can set up each instance
for Mailman/Postfix integration in the same way as for a single
instance, but you will have multiple hash:$prefix/data/aliases in
Postfix's alias_maps, one for each $prefix value.

You will also need multiple ScriptAlias /mailman/ and Alias /pipermail/
or whatever directives in your web server config, presumably one set
in each virtual domain pointing to its own Mailman instance.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jrc at clshost.com  Thu Mar  6 19:57:54 2008
From: jrc at clshost.com (J.R. Constance)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 11:57:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2008 Pizzigati Prize
In-Reply-To: <BB00C13C-8909-4711-9205-43F336D8248E@list.org>
References: <BB00C13C-8909-4711-9205-43F336D8248E@list.org>
Message-ID: <F57B0C11-219F-477C-9272-59285B73B491@clshost.com>

Congratulations Barry. Well deserved. Mailman is a great product and  
has served my needs very well.

I'm running Mailman 2.1.9cp2 on a virtual server and have serving 34  
mailing lists for a professional organization. Most are small,  
announce lists with little traffic but they all run well, with few  
problems.

My thanks to you and the rest of the team for providing such a great  
product.

J.R.

J.R. Constance
jrc at rodricon.com
http://www.rodricon.com
Phone:  720.339.3646


On Mar 5, 2008, at 4:36 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I realize that I've been remiss in announcing this.  My apologies.
>
> I have been awarded the 2008 Pizzigati Prize for Public Interest
> Computing for GNU Mailman.
>
> http://www.pizzigatiprize.org/
>
> I am deeply honored to win this prize because I believe very strongly
> in Mailman's role in helping people communicate and organize.  I want
> to thank all of you who have supported me and Mailman over the years,
> and I want to let you know that I am as excited as ever about where
> Mailman is going.  One of the most satisfying aspects of this project
> for me has been meeting you, the users, developers and contributors to
> Mailman, both online and face-to-face.
>
> I'm looking forward to meeting the Pizzigati family and having some
> time to spend with them learning about Anthony's remarkable life,
> sadly cut too short.
>
> So again, thank you all and I'm looking forward to the next 10 years
> of GNU Mailman!
>
> Cheers,
> - -Barry
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkfPLpcACgkQ2YZpQepbvXGgwwCbB/PjbX7rSiI0xwKjJ7jPpjgJ
> kuMAoIfeC0j0+4f8l0GEOp2gYc7a+8MI
> =Y7nZ
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jrc%40clshost.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Thu Mar  6 18:52:59 2008
From: mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Meenal Pant)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:52:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2008 Pizzigati Prize
In-Reply-To: <BB00C13C-8909-4711-9205-43F336D8248E@list.org>
References: <BB00C13C-8909-4711-9205-43F336D8248E@list.org>
Message-ID: <47D02F7B.6010100@ncsa.uiuc.edu>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> I realize that I've been remiss in announcing this.  My apologies.
> 
> I have been awarded the 2008 Pizzigati Prize for Public Interest  
> Computing for GNU Mailman.
> 
> http://www.pizzigatiprize.org/
> 

Congratulations Barry !
Our sincere thanks to Mailman developers and community. We are using
Mailman for our Secure Email List Service (SELS) project.
(http://sels.ncsa.uiuc.edu/) and now also providing it as a service to
user communities.
Meenal
(on behalf of the SELS team)

From Jim at Fortney.org  Fri Mar  7 01:29:03 2008
From: Jim at Fortney.org (Fortney, James T.)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:29:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Overload Issues
Message-ID: <0JXC00EOI3VFWQ5R@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>

Barry, Mark, et all -

I use multiple Mailman implementations on several ISPs and am 
generally very pleased with its operation.  I have one issue that 
seems to exist to one degree or another with all of them and I would 
appreciate some insight from the experienced users.

I have problems on my larger lists (they range from 85 to 420 
members) with loss of outgoing mail.  I have been able to identify 
what are apparently multiple reasons for these problems.  All of them 
seem to be associated with server overload.

At least one of my ISPs had a default limit of 50 outgoing messages 
per hour (I do not know how this control is implemented).  Obviously, 
this kind of limit resulted in some of the list members never 
receiving any mail and everyone being cut-out if more than one 
message was sent during the metering period.  Unfortunately, even the 
ISPs without the metering limit seem to have problems handling the 
large volume burst created when a message is sent to a list exceeding 
80-100 members.

I have been told that some less full featured mailing list 
applications have metering capabilities included in them but I would 
prefer to stick with Mailman.

Obviously, solutions like breaking up my lists into smaller lists 
would only help in a limited number of instances.  I need a better 
solution, especially for my lists that are interactive (Discussion).

Can anyone offer any insight or suggestions?

Who else is having this problem?

- JimF

--------------------------------------------
James T. Fortney
Jim at Fortney.org
--------------------------------------------


From brian at emwd.com  Fri Mar  7 01:47:38 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 19:47:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Overload Issues
In-Reply-To: <0JXC00EOI3VFWQ5R@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0JXC00EOI3VFWQ5R@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <000001c87fec$d9564c20$8c02e460$@com>

> Can anyone offer any insight or suggestions?
> 
> Who else is having this problem?
> 
> - JimF
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> James T. Fortney
> Jim at Fortney.org
> --------------------------------------------

My immediate suggestion is to find a new mailman host/provider. Allowing
only 50 outgoing messages per hour seems to be a little severe. Based upon
the average size list that we host, I would say 80-100 members would be
considered a small list by us. How many posts are made to these lists on a
per day or hour basis? An average figure would do.

My suggestion is to check us out at http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html. We do
not throttle our smtp servers nor do we overload our servers. We have had a
number of people come to us from other hosts who had treated their mailman
clients poorly. No one running a mailing list should tolerate the loss of
mail as being part of the service that they are paying for.

Here is one testimony from a client who came to us from Bluehost:

http://robertajazz.com/blog/?p=68

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  7 02:23:42 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 17:23:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Overload Issues
In-Reply-To: <000001c87fec$d9564c20$8c02e460$@com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803061723420515930d306d@msapiro>

Brian Carpenter wrote:

>> Can anyone offer any insight or suggestions?
>> 
>> Who else is having this problem?
>> 
>> - JimF
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------
>> James T. Fortney
>> Jim at Fortney.org
>> --------------------------------------------
>
>My immediate suggestion is to find a new mailman host/provider. 


I totally agree with Brian.

Whether you chose to use Brian's service or another, you must find a
service that is committed to providing Mailman service to it's
customers and not just adding Mailman to a checklist of available
services without actually supporting it.

I can't speak directly to Brian's service, but I know from his
participation on this list that he is committed to supporting the
service that he offers.

There are some pointers to lists of organizations offering service at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au  Fri Mar  7 01:57:15 2008
From: Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au (Luke Daly)
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 11:57:15 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Overload Issues
In-Reply-To: <000001c87fec$d9564c20$8c02e460$@com>
References: <0JXC00EOI3VFWQ5R@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>
	<000001c87fec$d9564c20$8c02e460$@com>
Message-ID: <47D12D9B.7D71.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>

Hi Guys

I have a very large list (27000) users. I need to be able to get a secretary to administer the list via the web admin page. when attempting to look at membership the web admin page times out. Is there anything I can do? or is it a product of the list size and there's no getting around it?

Thanks in advance for any help



Luke Daly
Systems Officer
IT Infrastructure
Newcastle University
17000
 

 



From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Fri Mar  7 03:27:31 2008
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 21:27:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any way to batch unsubscribe notifications?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802291909030750b5f04231@msapiro>
References: <fa37e76f0802291830o2d27d45dye0e0cdaa3fa3b11d@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200802291909030750b5f04231@msapiro>
Message-ID: <fa37e76f0803061827v4f748916rdec42b255d00bc95@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:09 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Matt Morgan wrote:
>  >
>  >The only problem is that a lot of their addresses are collected
>  >manually, so there can be a lot of failures. Mailman sends these one
>  >at a time, i.e. one unsubscribed address per notification message, and
>  >not really all at once (although I'm sure that depends on how quickly
>  >the bounce message comes back, too). Is it possible to get mailman to
>  >batch the unsubscribed addresses once per day, and send them all out
>  >in a single daily report? Or is there some other way to do this that
>  >would work better than what I've come up with?
>
>
>  You could turn the notices to the admin off and run a daily cron to
>  generate a summary from Mailman's subscribe log. All the bounce
>  deletes should have entries similar to
>
>  Feb 20 10:00:24 2008 (10510) listname: deleted user at example.com;
>  disabled address
>
>  You can also work off the bounce log which will have entries like
>
>  Feb 20 10:00:24 2008 (10510) listname: user at example.com disabling due
>  to bounce score 1.0 >= 1.0
>  Feb 20 10:00:24 2008 (10510) listname: user at example.com deleted after
>  exhausting notices

Thanks, Mark! Great tip. Here's what I came up with. I'm sure this can
be improved upon, but maybe it'll help someone else.

----------
bademails script
----------

#!/bin/sh
#
# This is a crummy little script to be run by cron that will collect
# deleted emails from any number of days before and send them to
# some address.

usageQuit()
{
  cat << "EOF" >&2
bademails processes mailman's subscribe logs for recently deleted members
Usage: bademails recipient [-d days]
  recipient is the email address to send the report to
  days is an integer value for the number of days of messages to parse
     (default is 1, i.e., yesterday)
EOF
  exit 1
}

days=1
file=/tmp/badaddresses

case $# in
	0 ) usageQuit	;;
	1 ) usageQuit	;;
	2 ) email=$1; days=$2;	;;
	? ) usageQuit	;;
esac

daysleft=$days
while [ $daysleft -gt 0 ] ; do
	logfile="/var/log/mailman/subscribe.$daysleft.gz"
	if [ -f $logfile ] ; then
		zcat $logfile|grep deleted|cut -d' ' -f8|sed -e 's/;//' >> $file
	fi
	daysleft=$(( $daysleft -1 ))
done

if [ -f $file ] ; then
	sort -f -u $file | mail -s"$days days of bad addresses" $email
	rm $file
fi

exit 0

---------

Thanks,
Matt

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  7 05:59:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 20:59:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Overload Issues
In-Reply-To: <47D12D9B.7D71.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <PC176020080306205923053167f1f08a@msapiro>

Luke Daly wrote:
>
>I have a very large list (27000) users. I need to be able to get a secretary to administer the list via the web admin page. when attempting to look at membership the web admin page times out. Is there anything I can do? or is it a product of the list size and there's no getting around it?


What times out? The browser or the web server? If it's the web server,
you might look at RLimitCPU in the Apache config (or equivalent in
another server).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From munichlinux at gmail.com  Fri Mar  7 08:00:48 2008
From: munichlinux at gmail.com (Prashanth)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:30:48 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weekly reminder
Message-ID: <1f869bdd0803062300l11894523ha98b050b442cfedb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

              I want to mailman to send weekly mails, as of mailman
sends mails Montly to the users in the list with their password I want
to replace the data and ask mailman to send mails weekly.

To say in simple words i want mailman to send the data that i give
weekly. So, how to do that?

-- 
regards,

Prashanth
http://munichlinux.blogspot.com

From her at adm.ku.dk  Fri Mar  7 12:04:49 2008
From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:04:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Danish characters - in "result of your commands"
	and in Mail archive
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802280648150515964a7852@msapiro>
References: <18374.44786.112925.920195@krk.inf.ed.ac.uk>
	<PC1760200802280648150515964a7852@msapiro>
Message-ID: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE2BF@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>

 
I have found quite a few descriptions about this, but none of them seems to be able to solve the problem.

I am using:

* Mailman 2.1.5
* Python-2.3.4-14.4.el4_6.1
* Redhat-release-4AS-7
* postfix-2.2.10-1.1.el4


I have a few cases of Danish characters not beind displayed correctly.

1) "Result of you commands" e-mail contains Quoted Printable
2) The E-mail archive is displayed in UTF-8



1)

When users subscribe or unsubscribe to a list with a mail containing Danish characters ??????, they receive a mail with the result of their commands. This mail includes the 2 standard sections "Results" and "Not handled" (translated from Danish, so they might have other names). In the section of Not handled, the text is displayed in Quoted Printable "=20" or "=E6=F8=E5=C6=D8=C5".

I've read somewhere that I am suppose to put DEFAULT_CHARSET into mm_cfg.py, but as I understand the comments in the Defaults.py file, this is only when using Pipermail. Anyway, it doesn't change anything when I set it to ['iso-8859-1'].

Sending the mail as plain text, UTF-8, the resulting mail contains

    ??????
    w6bDuMOlw4bDmMOFDQo=

How am I support to make the result mails human readable?



2)

The list's mail archive in mailserver.domain.tld/mailman/private/mylist/ contains Thread, Title, Author and Dato in Danish (Marts 2008: [ Tr d ] [ Titel ] [ Forfatter ] [ Dato ]  [ Tekst 765 bytes ]). The webpage source contains the the word "Tr?d" (instead of Tr&aring;d) and since the page is displayed in UTF-8, the word is displayed as "Tr d" with a square instead of the danish character.

I have tried changing the ? in /usr/lib/mailman/templates/da/archtocentry.html to Tr&aring;d (and restarting Mailman), but this doesn't change anything. Changing the DEFAULT_CHARSET in mm_cfg.py doesn't make any chances either.

When changing the character set for the displayed webpage in the browser, to "West european (Windows)", the character displayed correct.

How can I change the archive to use ISO8859-1 instead of UTF-8?

Regards Henrik

From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Fri Mar  7 12:10:15 2008
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 12:10:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old messages in bounces and in
Message-ID: <36C1CF57E88949B65B1F1A4F@sebastian-hagedorn-tests-power-mac-g5.local>

Hi,

we've been running Mailman for several years now (currently version 2.1.9), 
but up to now we've neglected some housekeeping. Actually that's a 
testament to how well it works for the most part! Still, I guess there are 
things we should be doing. Recently we've started running the Daily Status 
Report script. There are some issues that I don't understand. Here's one:

Subdirectory: bounces
==============================
Entries: 37
------------------------------
total 304
drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      8192 Mar  6 23:57 .
drwxrwsr-x   12 root     mailman      4096 Dec 27  2006 ..
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      3115 Jan  9  2007 
1168304393.8014059+653abf0ec76b61ef5f5245e7f08d944c441bc306.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      3074 Jan 27  2007 
1169866007.5216539+598123641f4820025a7c1b576d18b61e04948bd7.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      3347 Feb 13  2007 
1171355334.9604959+b04835e809571383842bc27f2ab87b74add6707d.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      4001 Feb 14  2007 
1171480541.145843+1691249655c377204dd41524524d880d3d7c83ad.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      1311 Mar  1  2007 
1172779123.972533+6278c754a56f31565ae77b5d72ae26ce5f1a8fe4.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      1310 Mar  1  2007 
1172779125.3440011+e4d563178ad2870dd873807f9312ac5a235ae21b.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      2822 Mar  5  2007 
1173099887.501122+d5713e44878095cd77a72d9225194e38036b950f.bak

	More than 20 total entries, skipping ...

-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      3158 Oct 11 00:11 
1192054281.6601789+d97aca15588bc28b251fcc49f042f505ea5f2241.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      5511 Oct 15 14:43 
1192452228.843272+5ac3cc2cf2c9459028d3832794ce3ff0a0784079.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      5514 Oct 15 14:43 
1192452229.1753449+c79bb5e1034835ef39d7d06a22fd073ab0f8f303.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      4613 Oct 23 10:19 
1193127548.6333981+1b976180b5bab9d648fe0433783e6d90ab814457.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      5553 Nov  6 14:56 
1194357386.3414631+66d4ba5d970da15e83fb931bd025a378764e44b5.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      5557 Nov  6 14:56 
1194357386.4404061+80a6df21be51dd4114656c9457c8e1fb393f951c.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      5307 Nov  6 14:56 
1194357397.079324+6683df3a5bfca7bc07d2b836b932492cafbac502.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      5571 Dec 24 18:13 
1198516384.5765851+8b8622602ba046cb557a275173e5d915df8ea578.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      4951 Feb 13 13:28 
1202905682.6427169+efe36a78f0a511d130ec88250ab92f082d9cef35.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      3957 Mar  3 17:24 
1204561474.39325+8808de39e232bc9fe6465d0470dfe921d2cfb2aa.bak

Subdirectory: in
==============================
Entries: 159
------------------------------
total 1100
drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman    212992 Mar  6 23:58 .
drwxrwsr-x   12 root     mailman      4096 Dec 27  2006 ..
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      4140 Jan  3  2007 
1167840137.109689+79891fb75a203b544dd071b9c7b1f03932b60587.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      5837 Jan  4  2007 
1167894274.0668249+207e2bf67b4335f2085b20b5afdffdbb9d7a36fe.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      3849 Jan  5  2007 
1167978082.64961+baca5c35ea3fbe5a3e976ac322aa329c8f0eae5a.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      4422 Jan  9  2007 
1168342414.339148+6b59a0d214fda24183090557092a37451310cbcc.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      1275 Jan 12  2007 
1168582657.618654+60c97a5ac1d4c344605feab62f23148a69dd3bb4.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      2645 Jan 14  2007 
1168770867.1258171+62228a34fc53f18ff8686dc8b4e18a4f2caea7ed.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman     14447 Jan 22  2007 
1169420696.66712+5bf24a593fc5b2e34dd2ac7e0e00e5d612bc4477.bak

	More than 20 total entries, skipping ...

-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      4096 Feb 28 18:50 
1204221027.480731+a39979365cdbf418a21465ec2bbb47afda9276d9.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      5945 Feb 29 11:50 
1204282253.134367+61d592f0567d442e42c2b8e8b1c6b7cc8f302c0a.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      2421 Mar  1 19:44 
1204397049.8067479+6dfd79a62091095873e80c31efae6ed1d2f54021.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      4452 Mar  3 07:59 
1204527543.135545+64f432195a7a3d864c3a6b88596945145b0b0859.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      2552 Mar  3 13:56 
1204548978.1132109+314aaaa282213138fb8d999af042d7ae615318b7.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      2760 Mar  3 16:16 
1204557395.872571+adcf0a5367a0ea5c9d7cb931bb5ea6316ad15a26.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      6348 Mar  3 19:23 
1204568594.918916+8c94f53cb900d9e6a28bbb2ce017536d88b27954.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      3045 Mar  4 19:35 
1204655705.780087+0ce84a8261b656101af135a8eba6ca0c562ea892.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      5082 Mar  5 14:11 
1204722671.2960739+ccac27bcb7eac696da944b847dc2d825fec96611.bak
-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      5407 Mar  6 02:07 
1204765651.4657221+d1caa1a9a4df844c4dc8395f1ea2989cddadf95f.bak

What are those? Can I just delete them? How do they end up there?

Cheers, Sebastian
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
                   .:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.

From wjonhind at gmail.com  Fri Mar  7 13:29:16 2008
From: wjonhind at gmail.com (Jon Hind)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:29:16 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2008 Pizzigati Prize
In-Reply-To: <47D037B9.2070607@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <BB00C13C-8909-4711-9205-43F336D8248E@list.org>
	<47D02369.2020508@dakotacom.net> <47D037B9.2070607@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <f766081a0803070429p1b3df325jcca640b86b69607a@mail.gmail.com>

I run mailman on one (hosted) server as a family mailing list.
It has brought our family closer together, enables my mother (the grandma)
to speak straght to her children and grandchildren, made a meetup happen in
Turkey between for cousins and most of all revealed that one of my sisters
like dirty jokes.

Many congratulations.

jon Hind.


On 06/03/2008, Charles Marcus <CMarcus at media-brokers.com> wrote:
>
> On 3/6/2008, Eric Gearhart (egearhart at dakotacom.net) wrote:
> > I'd just like to drop a note to thank you for Mailman. The project has
> > helped me immensely in many ways, the biggest being simplifying log
> > files and who gets notified when something goes down (do you can about
> > knowing if SMTP is down? Don't add your email address to the config
> > file, subscribe to the "logs" mailing list!)
>
> Interesting... what is this 'logs' list? Is it some kind of internal
> mailman list? I don't see it in my 'lists' data directory...
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
>
> Charles
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jon%40jonhind.co.uk
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>



-- 
Jon

From listeyon at metu.edu.tr  Fri Mar  7 13:54:17 2008
From: listeyon at metu.edu.tr (liste yoneticisi)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 14:54:17 +0200 (WET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a question about content-filtering
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200710041811340406bccd48b8@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200710041811340406bccd48b8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.58.0803071449530.1114228@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>


Hi;

Is there a patch that giving information for filtered extension.

I mean i am filtering *.mpg for example.
If someone sends an attachment with mpg extension, e-mail is delivered
without attachment and without any information about filtering.

But if sender doesn't know about it, (or if not
remember) he may say "i sent such a movie about blah blah."

is it possible to add a sentence like below:
"the attachment is filtered due to "list_name" content-filtering
configuration"

From M.Sargmacher at gmx.de  Fri Mar  7 15:27:12 2008
From: M.Sargmacher at gmx.de (M.Sargmacher at gmx.de)
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:27:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pending request problem
Message-ID: <20080307142712.146130@gmx.net>

Hello,

one of our lists gets a daily reminder about an open request.But when I follow the link to the pending moderator request page no message is listet there. I deleted the pending.pck and request.pck that belong to the list. But next day the message appeared again at 8:00. The subdirectories of the qfiles are empty except for shunt.
Could you please give me a hint where I can delete this message? Thanks!

Mailman 2.1.9 Ubunty Gutsy

Regards,
    
Markus


    -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
    Von: mailman-bounces at listserv...
    [mailto:mailman-bounces at listserv...] Im Auftrag von
    ...-bounces at listserv...
    Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. M?rz 2008 08:00
    An: ...-owner at listserv...
    Betreff: 1 ... Moderatoranforderung(en) warten
    Die Mailingliste ... at listserv... hat 1 offene
    Anfragen, die auf Ihre Bearbeitung warten. Bitte nehmen Sie sich
    dieser Anfragen unter der Adresse
    	http://listserv.../mailman/admindb/...
    
    baldm?glichst an.
    
    Diese Benachrichtigung wird bei Bedarf t?glich verschickt.
    
    
    ...
    Grund: Die Anzahl der Empf?nger dieser Nachricht ist zu hoch.
-- 
Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! 
Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer

From rick at learntime.com  Fri Mar  7 15:27:31 2008
From: rick at learntime.com (Rick Harris)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 08:27:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
Message-ID: <050f01c8805f$6136aa00$23a3fe00$@com>

Hello All,

 

I posted a couple of weeks ago regarding mail not being delivered to Yahoo
addresses.  I've all but written that off as an Internet black hole.
Messages from my list almost never make it to Yahoo recipients.  If I post
to the list, and cc a Yahoo address, then that works fine.  Background noise
only, none of this matters today.

 

Today my question is about AOL.  Since I had the issues with Yahoo, I
created my own email accounts on Yahoo, Gmail and AOL for testing and
monitoring purposes.  This week, none of the list postings (4 or 5) arrived
at either my Yahoo or AOL.  Yahoo is no surprise, but AOL was a surprise, as
it has been perfect in the past.  As I said earlier, this list is small and
has only one other AOL address, who also received no mail this week.  So, I
went into test mode.  I turned off everyone on the list except my test
account for AOL and sent another message to the list.  Came through just
fine.  Personalization on or off makes no difference.  It works fine.  I'm
very confused and open to ideas.  It shouldn't be so difficult to get
routine messages through to a list of 25 people.

 

Thanks in advance for any ideas,

 

Rick Harris



 


From brian at emwd.com  Fri Mar  7 16:01:27 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:01:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
In-Reply-To: <050f01c8805f$6136aa00$23a3fe00$@com>
References: <050f01c8805f$6136aa00$23a3fe00$@com>
Message-ID: <003501c88064$1fcb9620$5f62c260$@com>

> Today my question is about AOL.  Since I had the issues with Yahoo, I
> created my own email accounts on Yahoo, Gmail and AOL for testing and
> monitoring purposes.  This week, none of the list postings (4 or 5)
> arrived
> at either my Yahoo or AOL.  Yahoo is no surprise, but AOL was a
> surprise, as
> it has been perfect in the past.  As I said earlier, this list is small
> and
> has only one other AOL address, who also received no mail this week.
> So, I
> went into test mode.  I turned off everyone on the list except my test
> account for AOL and sent another message to the list.  Came through
> just
> fine.  Personalization on or off makes no difference.  It works fine.
> I'm
> very confused and open to ideas.  It shouldn't be so difficult to get
> routine messages through to a list of 25 people.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any ideas,
> 
> Rick Harris


Hi Rick:

Are you using mailman on a shared hosting platform? If so ask your hosting
provider to check their log files to see if your posts were sent to these
addresses. I guess the first thing I would try to determine is whether or
not your posts are leaving the server and not being queued due to some sort
of delivery problem. If they are being delivered by the server, then it will
be more difficult to troubleshoot.

This is more likely a mail transport issue then a mailman problem.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Mar  7 17:00:48 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:00:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weekly reminder
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0803062300l11894523ha98b050b442cfedb@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <1f869bdd0803062300l11894523ha98b050b442cfedb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200803071601.m27G0kCP024588@unreal.eroded.org>

Prashanth sent the message below at 23:00 3/6/2008:
>Hi,
>
>               I want to mailman to send weekly mails, as of mailman
>sends mails Montly to the users in the list with their password I want
>to replace the data and ask mailman to send mails weekly.
>
>To say in simple words i want mailman to send the data that i give
>weekly. So, how to do that?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

OK, if I understand you correctly, you want the password reminder 
e-mails to go out once a week... If that is correct, that function is 
controlled by a script run by cron. You have to edit mailman's cron 
table to change the time when it is run from the first of the month 
to whenever you want it to be (like perhaps every Monday or whatever).

Check the documentation for cron on how to set the cron table and 
cron intervals. There is a text file for the standard crontab in the 
Mailman distribution you can edit and then install using crontab.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  7 17:53:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:53:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Danish characters - in "result of your
 commands" and in Mail archive
In-Reply-To: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE2BF@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
References: <18374.44786.112925.920195@krk.inf.ed.ac.uk>	<PC1760200802280648150515964a7852@msapiro>
	<78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE2BF@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <47D17303.9040105@msapiro.net>

Henrik Rasmussen wrote:
> 
> I am using:
> 
> * Mailman 2.1.5


You need to upgrade.


> * Python-2.3.4-14.4.el4_6.1 * Redhat-release-4AS-7 *
> postfix-2.2.10-1.1.el4
> 
> 
> I have a few cases of Danish characters not beind displayed
> correctly.
> 
> 1) "Result of you commands" e-mail contains Quoted Printable 2) The
> E-mail archive is displayed in UTF-8
> 
> 
> 
> 1)
> 
> When users subscribe or unsubscribe to a list with a mail containing
> Danish characters ??????, they receive a mail with the result of
> their commands. This mail includes the 2 standard sections "Results"
> and "Not handled" (translated from Danish, so they might have other
> names). In the section of Not handled, the text is displayed in
> Quoted Printable "=20" or "=E6=F8=E5=C6=D8=C5".


This is a bug (1829061) in pre 2.1.10 Mailman. CommandRunner didn't 
decode the quoted-printable message body before processing it.

This is fixed in Mailman 2.1.10, now in beta, or you can patch Mailman 
2.1.5 Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py by changing line 94 from

         body = part.get_payload()

to

         body = part.get_payload(decode=True)

> 2)
> 
> The list's mail archive in
> mailserver.domain.tld/mailman/private/mylist/ contains Thread, Title,
> Author and Dato in Danish (Marts 2008: [ Tr d ] [ Titel ] [ Forfatter
> ] [ Dato ]  [ Tekst 765 bytes ]). The webpage source contains the the
> word "Tr?d" (instead of Tr&aring;d) and since the page is displayed
> in UTF-8, the word is displayed as "Tr d" with a square instead of
> the danish character.
> 
> I have tried changing the ? in
> /usr/lib/mailman/templates/da/archtocentry.html to Tr&aring;d (and
> restarting Mailman), but this doesn't change anything.


Doesn't change anything immediately, or after the TOC has been updated?.


> Changing the
> DEFAULT_CHARSET in mm_cfg.py doesn't make any chances either.
> 
> When changing the character set for the displayed webpage in the
> browser, to "West european (Windows)", the character displayed
> correct.
> 
> How can I change the archive to use ISO8859-1 instead of UTF-8?


The answer is in the paragraph above. The character set used for Danish 
throughout Mailman is iso-8859-1. It is your web server that is 
overriding this and sending a header with charset=UTF-8. You have to set 
your web server to not override Mailman's charset or to translate 
ISO-8859-1 into UTF-8

If your server is Apache, see the *Charset, and Charset* directives

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  7 20:58:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 11:58:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
In-Reply-To: <050f01c8805f$6136aa00$23a3fe00$@com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080307115847096812336d37@msapiro>

Rick Harris wrote:
>
>I posted a couple of weeks ago regarding mail not being delivered to Yahoo
>addresses.  I've all but written that off as an Internet black hole.
>Messages from my list almost never make it to Yahoo recipients.  If I post
>to the list, and cc a Yahoo address, then that works fine.  Background noise
>only, none of this matters today.


Since your original post on this issue, I have looked at my maillog and
I see lots of these

host e.mx.mail.yahoo.com[216.39.53.1] refused to talk to me: 421 4.7.0
[TS01] Messages from 72.52.113.16 temporarily deferred due to user
complaints - 4.16.55.1; see http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421-ts01.html

type messages (3500 in the last month, but only 46 in the last 5 days).
I also get lots of

host g.mx.mail.yahoo.com[206.190.53.191] said: 451 Message temporarily
deferred - [250] (in reply to end of DATA command)

and

host c.mx.mail.yahoo.com[216.39.53.3] said: 421 Message temporarily
deferred - 4.16.51. Please refer to
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html (in reply to
end of DATA command)

and

host c.mx.mail.yahoo.com[68.142.237.182] refused to talk to me: 421
Message temporarily deferred - 4.16.55.1. Please refer to
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html

The important thing is that in my case at least, every one of these is
successfully retried, either immediately via a different MX or after 1
or a few delayed retries. All of these messages were eventually
accepted by Yahoo and I have gotten zero complaints of missing mail
from Yahoo list members.

Perhaps there is some issue with your outbound MTA not retrying these
421 and 451 status returns.


>Today my question is about AOL.  Since I had the issues with Yahoo, I
>created my own email accounts on Yahoo, Gmail and AOL for testing and
>monitoring purposes.  This week, none of the list postings (4 or 5) arrived
>at either my Yahoo or AOL.  Yahoo is no surprise, but AOL was a surprise, as
>it has been perfect in the past.  As I said earlier, this list is small and
>has only one other AOL address, who also received no mail this week.  So, I
>went into test mode.  I turned off everyone on the list except my test
>account for AOL and sent another message to the list.  Came through just
>fine.  Personalization on or off makes no difference.  It works fine.  I'm
>very confused and open to ideas.


If you have only one AOL list member, it shouldn't matter how many
other non-AOL members are on the list. Your outbound MTA is going to
deliver a message to AOL with a single recipient in either case. AOL
shouldn't be able to tell the difference.


>  It shouldn't be so difficult to get
>routine messages through to a list of 25 people.


No, it shouldn't, but large ISPs have gotten so many complaints about
spam from their users that they are willing to sacrifice legitimate
mail in order to keep their users from complaining about spam.

I think there is a general problem here in that the typical large ISP
or free email service user is not a member of many or any lists. Also,
when these relatively clueless users receive spam, they complain to
the ISP/mail service, but when they don't get their list mail, they
complain to the list manager. So the ISPs/mail services think their
users don't want to receive spam and don't care if they don't receive
list mail, and they act accordingly.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  7 21:09:15 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:09:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weekly reminder
In-Reply-To: <200803071601.m27G0kCP024588@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008030712091507818ca3d6dc@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:

>Prashanth sent the message below at 23:00 3/6/2008:
>>Hi,
>>
>>               I want to mailman to send weekly mails, as of mailman
>>sends mails Montly to the users in the list with their password I want
>>to replace the data and ask mailman to send mails weekly.
>>
>>To say in simple words i want mailman to send the data that i give
>>weekly. So, how to do that?
>---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
>OK, if I understand you correctly, you want the password reminder 
>e-mails to go out once a week... If that is correct, that function is 
>controlled by a script run by cron. You have to edit mailman's cron 
>table to change the time when it is run from the first of the month 
>to whenever you want it to be (like perhaps every Monday or whatever).
>
>Check the documentation for cron on how to set the cron table and 
>cron intervals. There is a text file for the standard crontab in the 
>Mailman distribution you can edit and then install using crontab.


The above is correct as far as it goes. However, it seems that you also
want to send something different from the standard password reminder.
You might be able to accomplish this by editing the cronpass.txt
template (see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>),
but no matter how you edit this template, the message will still
contain the actual password reminders. Also, since password reminders
are a global rather than a list-specific message, you can't make a
list-specific cronpass.txt template; you have to make a site template.
Finally, this message won't be sent to members who have opted not to
receive the reminder.

It might be better to just set up a cron to run weekly and post a
message to the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  7 22:12:16 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 13:12:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old messages in bounces and in
In-Reply-To: <36C1CF57E88949B65B1F1A4F@sebastian-hagedorn-tests-power-mac-g5.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803071312160921b4d40c89@msapiro>

Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
>
>we've been running Mailman for several years now (currently version 2.1.9), 
>but up to now we've neglected some housekeeping. Actually that's a 
>testament to how well it works for the most part! Still, I guess there are 
>things we should be doing. Recently we've started running the Daily Status 
>Report script. There are some issues that I don't understand. Here's one:
>
>Subdirectory: bounces
>==============================
>Entries: 37
>------------------------------
>total 304
>drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      8192 Mar  6 23:57 .
>drwxrwsr-x   12 root     mailman      4096 Dec 27  2006 ..
>-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      3115 Jan  9  2007 
>1168304393.8014059+653abf0ec76b61ef5f5245e7f08d944c441bc306.bak
>-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      3074 Jan 27  2007 
>1169866007.5216539+598123641f4820025a7c1b576d18b61e04948bd7.bak
<snip>
>
>Subdirectory: in
>==============================
>Entries: 159
>------------------------------
>total 1100
>drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman    212992 Mar  6 23:58 .
>drwxrwsr-x   12 root     mailman      4096 Dec 27  2006 ..
>-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      4140 Jan  3  2007 
>1167840137.109689+79891fb75a203b544dd071b9c7b1f03932b60587.bak
>-rw-rw----    1 mail     mailman      5837 Jan  4  2007 
>1167894274.0668249+207e2bf67b4335f2085b20b5afdffdbb9d7a36fe.bak
<snip>
>
>What are those? Can I just delete them? How do they end up there?


Good questions.

Beginning with Mailman 2.1.9, a mechanism was implemented to prevent
message loss in case of a system crash or queue runner hard death. The
mechanism is when dequeueing an entry, we rename the queue file with a
.bak extension. Then when we are finished processing that entry we
remove the .bak file.

If a runner dies and is restarted, it recovers any .bak files by
renaming them to .pck and they will be processed normally.

There are two problems in 2.1.9 as released that are fixed in 2.1.10.

It is possible for a message itself to cause a runner to die which in
turn causes the runner to be restarted and reprocess the message and
die again until the restart limit (10) is reached. This is fixed by
limiting the number of times a specific .bak file can be recovered
before it is logged and moved aside (to a .psv file in the shunt
queue).

Also, There was an oversight having to do with unparseable messages. I
think this is the issue in your case. If you look in mailman's error
log, I think you'll see for each one of these files, an entry like
"Ignoring unparseable message:
1168304393.8014059+653abf0ec76b61ef5f5245e7f08d944c441bc306". If so,
what is happening is malformed MIME messages which are almost
certainly spam are being sent to your list and list-bounces addresses.
This causes the parse error to be logged and the message dropped, but
we neglected to deal with the .bak file. In 2.1.10 we move it aside to
a .psv file in the shunt queue.

The bottom line, if I am correct, is these are spam and can be safely
just deleted.

If you are not ready to upgrade to 2.1.10, you can patch 2.1.9. Find
lines 107-109 in Mailman/Queue/Runner.py. They should be

                self._log(e)
                syslog('error', 'Ignoring unparseable message: %s',
filebase)
                continue

(the syslog line is wrapped here, but not in the module). Add a line to
make it

                self._log(e)
                syslog('error', 'Ignoring unparseable message: %s',
filebase)
                self._switchboard.finish(filebase)
                continue

That won't preserve the entry in the shunt queue, but it will prevent
.bak files from accumulating.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  7 22:24:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 13:24:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a question about content-filtering
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.58.0803071449530.1114228@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <PC176020080307132418076561b2a1af@msapiro>

liste yoneticisi <listeyon at metu.edu.tr>
   Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 14:54:17 +0200 (WET)
     To: Mailman Users ML <mailman-users at python.org>

>
>Hi;
>
>Is there a patch that giving information for filtered extension.
>
>I mean i am filtering *.mpg for example.
>If someone sends an attachment with mpg extension, e-mail is delivered
>without attachment and without any information about filtering.
>
>But if sender doesn't know about it, (or if not
>remember) he may say "i sent such a movie about blah blah."
>
>is it possible to add a sentence like below:
>"the attachment is filtered due to "list_name" content-filtering
>configuration"


It is certainly possible, but as far as I know, there is no published
patch for it.

Of course, there is the

X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.x

header that is added whenever anything is removed, but I expect you
want something more visible than that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  7 22:29:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 13:29:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pending request problem
In-Reply-To: <20080307142712.146130@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020080307132955021861b29fb1@msapiro>

M.Sargmacher at gmx.de wrote:
>
>one of our lists gets a daily reminder about an open request.But when I follow the link to the pending moderator request page no message is listet there. I deleted the pending.pck and request.pck that belong to the list. But next day the message appeared again at 8:00. The subdirectories of the qfiles are empty except for shunt.
>Could you please give me a hint where I can delete this message? Thanks!


Most likely, you have an old, backup, test, whatever installation that
has a cron running that is sending this message.

find / -print -name config.pck

may help you find it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at britaine.cis.anl.gov  Fri Mar  7 22:54:51 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.cis.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 15:54:51 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Parms for a "Monthly" Announce-only List?
Message-ID: <200803072154.m27LspWs018157@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

I have a Majordomo list that I will be converting to Mailman 2.1.9.
The list is an announce-only list, where the announcements are made
the first working day of each month.  What bounce parameters are
suggested for this list?  Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  7 23:09:59 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 14:09:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Parms for a "Monthly" Announce-only List?
In-Reply-To: <200803072154.m27LspWs018157@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC17602008030714095907189a3439a9@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>I have a Majordomo list that I will be converting to Mailman 2.1.9.
>The list is an announce-only list, where the announcements are made
>the first working day of each month.  What bounce parameters are
>suggested for this list?  Thanks.


If you want to be really agressive, you could set
bounce_score_threshold to 1.0 to disable the member on the first
bounce. She will still get two more warnings at weekly intervals (with
default settings) before being removed.

I would probably not be so agressive and set bounce_score_threshold to
2.0 to require a bounce in successive months to disable. This requires
setting bounce_info_stale_after to a value > 31 or the first bounce
will be stale whan the second arrives.

So if it were my list, I would set

bounce_score_threshold = 2.0
bounce_info_stale_after = 45

and leave the other settings at the defaults.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar  8 03:01:10 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 20:01:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
In-Reply-To: <050f01c8805f$6136aa00$23a3fe00$@com>
References: <050f01c8805f$6136aa00$23a3fe00$@com>
Message-ID: <p06240804c3f7a10f26b5@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/7/08, Rick Harris wrote:

>  I posted a couple of weeks ago regarding mail not being delivered to Yahoo
>  addresses.  I've all but written that off as an Internet black hole.
>  Messages from my list almost never make it to Yahoo recipients.  If I post
>  to the list, and cc a Yahoo address, then that works fine.  Background noise
>  only, none of this matters today.

If you think that your messages are being thrown away by Yahoo, then 
you have two options for solving that problem:

	1.  Sign up for their feedback loop system and make sure that you
		properly handle all the complaints, so that you keep
		your reputation in good shape and Yahoo doesn't just
		throw your mail away.

	2.  Sign up for service with Habeas or ReturnPath
		SenderScoreCertified, and make sure that you implement
		all their "best practices" for all your outgoing mail.
		This will include your procedures for handling spam
		complaints, unsubscribe complaints, signing your outgoing
		mail cryptographically with DomainKeys or DKIM, using SPF
		records to designate which machines are allowed to send
		e-mail for your domain, etc....

If you're a small non-profit organization, both Habeas and ReturnPath 
have one-time processing fees that they will charge you in order to 
get into their program.  After that, once you're on the Habeas 
SafeList or on the ReturnPath SenderScoreCertified list, you should 
be much more successful in getting your mail through various filters 
at places like Yahoo.


One thing to keep in mind that that the Yahoo feedback loop mechanism 
is new, ad does not have a good track record yet.

On the other side, I help run the mail servers for the University of 
Texas at Austin (one of the largest public research Universities in 
the world, with ~50,000 students and ~20,000 faculty and staff), and 
we've had problems with RoadRunner, Yahoo, and various other 
providers.  We use IronPort e-mail security appliances to process all 
inbound and outbound mail from our main mail servers, and they use 
the SenderBase reputation system for determining the likelihood that 
an incoming connection is going to be spam -- and just this last 
week, Yahoo seems to have tripped some sort of alarm somewhere that 
caused their SenderBase scores to go through the floor, so our 
appliances started automatically seriously throttling their 
connections.

We're in the process of talking to the people at Habeas about getting 
our mail systems certified, so that we are much less likely to have 
our mail blocked at major providers, but we're also going to talk to 
the ReturnPath folks as well.  As it happens, because of my previous 
experience as the Sr. Internet Mail Administrator for AOL, I happen 
to know key people at both companies.

Meanwhile, we have already signed up for the feedback loop with AOL, 
United Online (which includes Juno and some other sites), RoadRunner 
(where I happen to know the Chief Postmaster, also a former co-worker 
from AOL), and various other sites.  But we're hoping that services 
like Habeas and ReturnPath will allow us to avoid having to continue 
to do that sort of thing.

>  Today my question is about AOL.  Since I had the issues with Yahoo, I
>  created my own email accounts on Yahoo, Gmail and AOL for testing and
>  monitoring purposes.

Setting up your own testing accounts is a very good idea.

>                        This week, none of the list postings (4 or 5) arrived
>  at either my Yahoo or AOL.  Yahoo is no surprise, but AOL was a surprise, as
>  it has been perfect in the past.  As I said earlier, this list is small and
>  has only one other AOL address, who also received no mail this week.  So, I
>  went into test mode.  I turned off everyone on the list except my test
>  account for AOL and sent another message to the list.  Came through just
>  fine.  Personalization on or off makes no difference.  It works fine.  I'm
>  very confused and open to ideas.  It shouldn't be so difficult to get
>  routine messages through to a list of 25 people.

Again, you can sign up for the AOL feedback loop.  Of all the FBLs 
we've signed up for, the AOL FBL is the most active and reports the 
most useful information.

Or, you can sign up for service with Habeas and/or ReturnPath.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar  8 03:02:48 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 20:02:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
In-Reply-To: <003501c88064$1fcb9620$5f62c260$@com>
References: <050f01c8805f$6136aa00$23a3fe00$@com>
	<003501c88064$1fcb9620$5f62c260$@com>
Message-ID: <p06240805c3f7a3ecd287@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/7/08, Brian Carpenter wrote:

>  Are you using mailman on a shared hosting platform? If so ask your hosting
>  provider to check their log files to see if your posts were sent to these
>  addresses. I guess the first thing I would try to determine is whether or
>  not your posts are leaving the server and not being queued due to some sort
>  of delivery problem. If they are being delivered by the server, then it will
>  be more difficult to troubleshoot.

Definitely, you should check the logs, or have your provider do it 
for you.  However, both Yahoo and AOL will throw away messages that 
they think are spam, without telling you.  So, you need to sign up 
for their feedback loop mechanisms to get reports on any complaints 
filed against your domain(s) and/or your IP address(es) of your mail 
server(s).

>  This is more likely a mail transport issue then a mailman problem.

Agreed.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar  8 03:06:17 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 20:06:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a question about content-filtering
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080307132418076561b2a1af@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080307132418076561b2a1af@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240806c3f7a4a0fcab@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/7/08, Mark Sapiro quoted liste yoneticisi <listeyon at metu.edu.tr>:

>>Is there a patch that giving information for filtered extension.
>>
>>  I mean i am filtering *.mpg for example.
>>  If someone sends an attachment with mpg extension, e-mail is delivered
>>  without attachment and without any information about filtering.

	[ ... deletia ... ]

>  It is certainly possible, but as far as I know, there is no published
>  patch for it.

What about scrub_nondigest?  Wouldn't that do what the OP was asking for?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar  8 04:42:31 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 19:42:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a question about content-filtering
In-Reply-To: <p06240806c3f7a4a0fcab@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803071942310109f83bc28c@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 3/7/08, Mark Sapiro quoted liste yoneticisi <listeyon at metu.edu.tr>:
>
>>>Is there a patch that giving information for filtered extension.
>>>
>>>  I mean i am filtering *.mpg for example.
>>>  If someone sends an attachment with mpg extension, e-mail is delivered
>>>  without attachment and without any information about filtering.
>
>	[ ... deletia ... ]
>
>>  It is certainly possible, but as far as I know, there is no published
>>  patch for it.
>
>What about scrub_nondigest?  Wouldn't that do what the OP was asking for?


Possibly. If the OP is willing to turn off content filtering or limit
it to collapse_alternatives and then have all non-text/plain and
characterset unknown parts stored and replaced with hyperlinks in the
delivered posts, then yes, scrub_nondigest would do it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Sat Mar  8 11:44:49 2008
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:44:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old messages in bounces and in
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803071312160921b4d40c89@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200803071312160921b4d40c89@msapiro>
Message-ID: <E949273232B714487967D558@G5>

-- Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> is rumored to have mumbled on 7. M?rz 
2008 13:12:16 -0800 regarding Re: [Mailman-Users] Old messages in bounces 
and in:

> Also, There was an oversight having to do with unparseable messages. I
> think this is the issue in your case. If you look in mailman's error
> log, I think you'll see for each one of these files, an entry like
> "Ignoring unparseable message:
> 1168304393.8014059+653abf0ec76b61ef5f5245e7f08d944c441bc306".

Correct.

> If so,
> what is happening is malformed MIME messages which are almost
> certainly spam are being sent to your list and list-bounces addresses.
> This causes the parse error to be logged and the message dropped, but
> we neglected to deal with the .bak file. In 2.1.10 we move it aside to
> a .psv file in the shunt queue.

OK. Those have to be dealt with manually, I guess?

> The bottom line, if I am correct, is these are spam and can be safely
> just deleted.

Thanks. Done.

> If you are not ready to upgrade to 2.1.10,

We roll our own RPM, based on Red Hat's, so it's a bit of a hassle. Plus, 
I'd like to help testing, but on a production server with 1,100+ lists I 
prefer to stick to the stable releases :-)

> you can patch 2.1.9. Find
> lines 107-109 in Mailman/Queue/Runner.py. They should be
>
>                 self._log(e)
>                 syslog('error', 'Ignoring unparseable message: %s',
> filebase)
>                 continue
>
> (the syslog line is wrapped here, but not in the module). Add a line to
> make it
>
>                 self._log(e)
>                 syslog('error', 'Ignoring unparseable message: %s',
> filebase)
>                 self._switchboard.finish(filebase)
>                 continue
>
> That won't preserve the entry in the shunt queue, but it will prevent
> .bak files from accumulating.

Thanks. I've made that change.
--
Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Flachbau), Zi. 18, Robert-Koch-Str. 10
Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK
Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - Tel. +49-221-478-5587

From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Sat Mar  8 15:07:50 2008
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 09:07:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080307115847096812336d37@msapiro>
References: <050f01c8805f$6136aa00$23a3fe00$@com>
	<PC176020080307115847096812336d37@msapiro>
Message-ID: <fa37e76f0803080607u21ad4e9jb42d611fc99d76c2@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Rick Harris wrote:
>  >
>  >I posted a couple of weeks ago regarding mail not being delivered to Yahoo
>  >addresses.  I've all but written that off as an Internet black hole.
>  >Messages from my list almost never make it to Yahoo recipients.  If I post
>  >to the list, and cc a Yahoo address, then that works fine.  Background noise
>  >only, none of this matters today.
>
>
>  Since your original post on this issue, I have looked at my maillog and
>  I see lots of these
>
>  host e.mx.mail.yahoo.com[216.39.53.1] refused to talk to me: 421 4.7.0
>  [TS01] Messages from 72.52.113.16 temporarily deferred due to user
>  complaints - 4.16.55.1; see http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421-ts01.html
>
>  type messages (3500 in the last month, but only 46 in the last 5 days).
>  I also get lots of
>
>  host g.mx.mail.yahoo.com[206.190.53.191] said: 451 Message temporarily
>  deferred - [250] (in reply to end of DATA command)
>
>  and
>
>  host c.mx.mail.yahoo.com[216.39.53.3] said: 421 Message temporarily
>  deferred - 4.16.51. Please refer to
>  http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html (in reply to
>  end of DATA command)
>
>  and
>
>  host c.mx.mail.yahoo.com[68.142.237.182] refused to talk to me: 421
>  Message temporarily deferred - 4.16.55.1. Please refer to
>  http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html

This is greylisting:

http://greylisting.org

in which the receiving MTA responds with a temporary failure to
suspicious or unknown senders. It kills a lot of spam, because most
spam is sent by non-compliant MTAs that don't bother retrying.

>  The important thing is that in my case at least, every one of these is
>  successfully retried, either immediately via a different MX or after 1
>  or a few delayed retries. All of these messages were eventually
>  accepted by Yahoo and I have gotten zero complaints of missing mail
>  from Yahoo list members.
>
>  Perhaps there is some issue with your outbound MTA not retrying these
>  421 and 451 status returns.

Ditto. Rick, are you in charge of your MTA? One way or another, you
should figure out how your MTA handles temporary failures and retries.

--Matt

From rick at learntime.com  Sat Mar  8 16:03:06 2008
From: rick at learntime.com (Rick Harris)
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 09:03:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
In-Reply-To: <fa37e76f0803080607u21ad4e9jb42d611fc99d76c2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <050f01c8805f$6136aa00$23a3fe00$@com>	
	<PC176020080307115847096812336d37@msapiro>
	<fa37e76f0803080607u21ad4e9jb42d611fc99d76c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <012301c8812d$85a78980$90f69c80$@com>

I have shared hosting and as such, am not in charge of anything.  In
testing, I turned off all addresses except my AOL address and it came
through just fine.  Then I turned all back on.  (25 addresses).  4 more
messages were sent to mailman yesterday morning.  I immediately rec'd
messages via my remote host, but not by my AOL or my local ISP accounts.
However, all of those (AOL and ISP) arrived in the wee hours of this
morning... approx. 16 hours after original posts.

I queried my hosts regarding a mail transport issue and sent them headers
from messages in question.  Here is the response:

"According to my investigations the message contained more than 10
recipients. That's why the first 10 recipients got their emails immediatelly
and other copies of the message were delayed. I just advise you to
reconfigure your maillist software to send individual email to each
recipient."

Should I be looking for different hosting?

Rick 


-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Morgan [mailto:minxmertzmomo at gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:08 AM
To: Mark Sapiro
Cc: Rick Harris; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Rick Harris wrote:
>  >
>  >I posted a couple of weeks ago regarding mail not being delivered to
Yahoo
>  >addresses.  I've all but written that off as an Internet black hole.
>  >Messages from my list almost never make it to Yahoo recipients.  If I
post
>  >to the list, and cc a Yahoo address, then that works fine.  Background
noise
>  >only, none of this matters today.
>
>
>  Since your original post on this issue, I have looked at my maillog and
>  I see lots of these
>
>  host e.mx.mail.yahoo.com[216.39.53.1] refused to talk to me: 421 4.7.0
>  [TS01] Messages from 72.52.113.16 temporarily deferred due to user
>  complaints - 4.16.55.1; see http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421-ts01.html
>
>  type messages (3500 in the last month, but only 46 in the last 5 days).
>  I also get lots of
>
>  host g.mx.mail.yahoo.com[206.190.53.191] said: 451 Message temporarily
>  deferred - [250] (in reply to end of DATA command)
>
>  and
>
>  host c.mx.mail.yahoo.com[216.39.53.3] said: 421 Message temporarily
>  deferred - 4.16.51. Please refer to
>  http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html (in reply to
>  end of DATA command)
>
>  and
>
>  host c.mx.mail.yahoo.com[68.142.237.182] refused to talk to me: 421
>  Message temporarily deferred - 4.16.55.1. Please refer to
>  http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html

This is greylisting:

http://greylisting.org

in which the receiving MTA responds with a temporary failure to
suspicious or unknown senders. It kills a lot of spam, because most
spam is sent by non-compliant MTAs that don't bother retrying.

>  The important thing is that in my case at least, every one of these is
>  successfully retried, either immediately via a different MX or after 1
>  or a few delayed retries. All of these messages were eventually
>  accepted by Yahoo and I have gotten zero complaints of missing mail
>  from Yahoo list members.
>
>  Perhaps there is some issue with your outbound MTA not retrying these
>  421 and 451 status returns.

Ditto. Rick, are you in charge of your MTA? One way or another, you
should figure out how your MTA handles temporary failures and retries.

--Matt


From fabriciopoliveira at hotmail.com  Sat Mar  8 16:17:22 2008
From: fabriciopoliveira at hotmail.com (Fabricio Oliveira)
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:17:22 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
Message-ID: <BLU107-W41650A4DCEAD1D9D2F8FCCA70C0@phx.gbl>


Hi,
 
When I try access the page of Mailman appear the error bellow:
 
Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
We're sorry, we hit a bug!Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 
 
I changed permissions of directorys, but don't work. I do the instructions discribe in following links: http://archive.netbsd.se/?ml=mailman-users&a=2007-11&t=5744516, http://www.forum.techcuriosity.com/viewtopic.php?p=376&sid=0193ffbab1bee8e67dce3657319f4f83 and http://forum.swsoft.com/pda/index.php/t-48560.html, but don't work too.
 
Log - /usr/local/mailman/logs/error
 
Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): Traceback (most recent call last):Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):      main()Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in mainMar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):      qrunner.run()Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in runMar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):      filecnt = self._oneloop()Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloopMar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):      msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in dequeueMar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):      fp = open(filename)Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): IOError :  [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/in/1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck insecure string pickleMar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck.last invalid load key, '?'.Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) All cartaoberro fallbacks were corrupt, giving upMar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pckinsecure string pickleMar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck.lastinvalid load key, '?'.Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/c artaoberro/config.db[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) All cartaoberro fallbacks were corrupt, giving upMar 08 11:04:45 2008 admin(1883): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@admin(1883): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]admin(1883): [----- Traceback ------]admin(1883): Traceback (most recent call last):admin(1883):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_mainadmin(1883):     main()admin(1883):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 75, in mainadmin(1883):     admin_overview(_('No such list <em>%(safelistname)s</em>'))admin(1883):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 233, in admi                                              n_overviewadmin(1883):     mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)admin(1883):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __ini                                              t__admin(1883):     self.Load()admin(1883):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 644, in Loadadmin(1883):     raise Errors.MMCorruptListDatabaseError, eadmin(1883): MMCorruptListDatabaseError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/                                              usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'admin(1883): [----- Python Information -----]admin(1883): sys.version     =   2.4.3 (#1, Jul 26 2006, 20:13:39)[GCC 3.4.6]admin(1883): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/pythonadmin(1883): sys.prefix      =   /usradmin(1883): sys.exec_prefix =   /usradmin(1883): sys.path        =   /usradmin(1883): sys.platform    =   linux2admin(1883): [----- Environment Variables -----]admin(1883):    SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.37 (Unix)admin(1883):    SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/adminadmin(1883):    SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.37 Server at serverlinux.r                                              evistaoberro.com.br Port 80</ADDRESS>admin(1883):admin(1883):    REQUEST_METHOD: GETadmin(1883):    PATH_INFO: /cartaoberro/logoutadmin(1883):    SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1admin(1883):    QUERY_STRING:admin(1883):    HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5                                              .1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)admin(1883):    HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Aliveadmin(1883):    SERVER_NAME: serverlinux.revistaoberro.com.bradmin(1883):    REMOTE_ADDR: 192.168.0.2admin(1883):    PATH_TRANSLATED: /var/www/htdocs/cartaoberro/logoutadmin(1883):    SERVER_PORT: 80admin(1883):    SERVER_ADDR: 200.171.57.41admin(1883):    DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/htdocsadmin(1883):    PYTHONPATH: /usr/local/mailmanadmin(1883):    SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin//adminadmin(1883):    SERVER_ADMIN: root at tree.slackware.lanadmin(1883):    HTTP_HOST: serverlinux.revistaoberro.com.bradmin(1883):    REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admin/cartaoberro/logoutadmin(1883):    HTTP_ACCEPT: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg                                              , application/x-shockwave-flash, application/vnd.ms-excel, application/vnd.ms-po                                              werpoint, application/msword, */*admin(1883):    GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1admin(1883):    REMOTE_PORT: 4572admin(1883):    HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: pt-bradmin(1883):    HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflateadmin(1883):    UNIQUE_ID: R9Kc-MirOSkAAASPEZY
 
I deleted the file '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/in/1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck' and reboot the server. See log after reboot:
 
Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): Traceback (most recent call last):Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 548, in ?Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):      main()Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 390, in mainMar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):      lock = acquire_lock(force)Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 214, in acquire_lockMar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):      lock = acquire_lock_1(force)Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 208, in acquire_lock_1Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):      os.unlink(os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, tempfile))Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): OSError :  [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/locks/master-qrunner.serverlinux.1148'
Apache error_log        GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1        REMOTE_PORT: 4322        HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: pt-br        HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate        UNIQUE_ID: R9KXGsirOSkAAAQNA44[Sat Mar  8 11:19:34 2008] [error] [client 192.168.0.2] attempt to invoke directory as script: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin[Sat Mar  8 11:22:24 2008] [error] [client 192.168.0.2] attempt to invoke directory as script: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin[Sat Mar  8 11:55:49 2008] [notice] caught SIGTERM, shutting down[Sat Mar  8 11:57:12 2008] [notice] Apache/1.3.37 (Unix) configured -- resuming normal operations[Sat Mar  8 11:57:12 2008] [notice] Accept mutex: sysvsem (Default: sysvsem)
Permissionsdrwxrwsr-x root mailman mailman/-rwxrwsr-x root mailman 1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck*
 
Please help me to solve this problem.
 
Thanks.
 
Regards,Fabr?cio
 
_________________________________________________________________
Confira v?deos com not?cias do NY Times, gols direto do Lance, videocassetadas e muito mais no MSN Video!
http://video.msn.com/?mkt=pt-br

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar  8 17:33:45 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 08:33:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
In-Reply-To: <fa37e76f0803080607u21ad4e9jb42d611fc99d76c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803080833450437781909a2@msapiro>

Matt Morgan wrote:

>On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>>  Since your original post on this issue, I have looked at my maillog and
>>  I see lots of these
>>
>>  host e.mx.mail.yahoo.com[216.39.53.1] refused to talk to me: 421 4.7.0
>>  [TS01] Messages from 72.52.113.16 temporarily deferred due to user
>>  complaints - 4.16.55.1; see http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421-ts01.html
>>
>>  type messages (3500 in the last month, but only 46 in the last 5 days).
>>  I also get lots of
>>
>>  host g.mx.mail.yahoo.com[206.190.53.191] said: 451 Message temporarily
>>  deferred - [250] (in reply to end of DATA command)
>>
>>  and
>>
>>  host c.mx.mail.yahoo.com[216.39.53.3] said: 421 Message temporarily
>>  deferred - 4.16.51. Please refer to
>>  http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html (in reply to
>>  end of DATA command)
>>
>>  and
>>
>>  host c.mx.mail.yahoo.com[68.142.237.182] refused to talk to me: 421
>>  Message temporarily deferred - 4.16.55.1. Please refer to
>>  http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html
>
>This is greylisting:


This was discussed last month in the thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-February/060476.html>.

The first and fourth deferrals above are definitely not greylisting as
I know it as they come in response to the connect before the server
knows either the sender or the recipient. Even if they are
'greylisting' at the IP level, by now all the Yahoo MXs should have
identified my IP as one that retries, yet I still see these deferrals.

The second and third deferrals could be greylisting, except they are
not very effective greylisting in that they occur seemingly at random
in that a message with a specific sender and recipient will often be
accepted and then a later message with the same sender and recipient
will be deferred by the same MX.

Also, the discussions on the Yahoo pages in the status messages are not
consistent with greylisting per se.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brian at emwd.com  Sat Mar  8 17:38:08 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:38:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
In-Reply-To: <012301c8812d$85a78980$90f69c80$@com>
References: <050f01c8805f$6136aa00$23a3fe00$@com>		<PC176020080307115847096812336d37@msapiro>	<fa37e76f0803080607u21ad4e9jb42d611fc99d76c2@mail.gmail.com>
	<012301c8812d$85a78980$90f69c80$@com>
Message-ID: <006a01c8813a$cc4f6260$64ee2720$@com>

> I have shared hosting and as such, am not in charge of anything.  In
> testing, I turned off all addresses except my AOL address and it came
> through just fine.  Then I turned all back on.  (25 addresses).  4 more
> messages were sent to mailman yesterday morning.  I immediately rec'd
> messages via my remote host, but not by my AOL or my local ISP
> accounts.
> However, all of those (AOL and ISP) arrived in the wee hours of this
> morning... approx. 16 hours after original posts.
> 
> I queried my hosts regarding a mail transport issue and sent them
> headers
> from messages in question.  Here is the response:
> 
> "According to my investigations the message contained more than 10
> recipients. That's why the first 10 recipients got their emails
> immediatelly
> and other copies of the message were delayed. I just advise you to
> reconfigure your maillist software to send individual email to each
> recipient."
> 
> Should I be looking for different hosting?
> 
> Rick

I would. A 25 member list should not be delayed for 16 hours. In your case
it is your host that would need to do some configuration of either their MTA
or the way their mailman installation interacts with it.

If you want, I can set you up with a test list on our mailman server so you
can see how fast your list would receive your posts. Just let me know if you
are interested.


Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"





From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar  8 17:48:59 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 08:48:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
In-Reply-To: <012301c8812d$85a78980$90f69c80$@com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803080848590921e1be4054@msapiro>

Rick Harris wrote:
>
>I queried my hosts regarding a mail transport issue and sent them headers
>from messages in question.  Here is the response:
>
>"According to my investigations the message contained more than 10
>recipients. That's why the first 10 recipients got their emails immediatelly
>and other copies of the message were delayed. I just advise you to
>reconfigure your maillist software to send individual email to each
>recipient."


So the host is providing Mailman hosting that doesn't work and when you
complain the host blames the software which it provides.

The only option you have to configure mailman to send individual
messages is, if the host allows it, to set Non-digest options ->
personalize to Yes. If this setting does not appear as the second item
on the Non-digest options page, then the Mailman installation doesn't
allow it.

The other way to send individual messages is VERP like delivery, but
this is completely controlled by the host.


>Should I be looking for different hosting?


I would. See Brian's reply, and Brian's and my replies in the thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-March/060682.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar  8 18:05:25 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 09:05:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <BLU107-W41650A4DCEAD1D9D2F8FCCA70C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU107-W41650A4DCEAD1D9D2F8FCCA70C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47D2C755.7040600@msapiro.net>

Fabricio Oliveira wrote:
> Hi,
>  
> When I try access the page of Mailman appear the error bellow:
>  
> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
> We're sorry, we hit a bug!Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 
>  
> I changed permissions of directorys, but don't work. I do the instructions discribe in following links: http://archive.netbsd.se/?ml=mailman-users&a=2007-11&t=5744516, http://www.forum.techcuriosity.com/viewtopic.php?p=376&sid=0193ffbab1bee8e67dce3657319f4f83 and http://forum.swsoft.com/pda/index.php/t-48560.html, but don't work too.
>  
> Log - /usr/local/mailman/logs/error
>  
> Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): Traceback (most recent call last):Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):      main()Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in mainMar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):      qrunner.run()Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in runMar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):      filecnt = self._oneloop()Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloopMar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):      msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in dequeueMar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656):      fp = open(filename)Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): IOError :  [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/loc
al/mailman/qfiles/in/1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck insecure string pickleMar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck.last invalid load key, '?'.Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) All cartaoberro fallbacks were corrupt, giving upMar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pckinsecure string pickleMar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman
/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck.lastinvalid load key, '?'.Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/c artaoberro/config.db[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) All cartaoberro fallbacks were corrupt, giving upMar 08 11:04:45 2008 admin(1883): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@admin(1883): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]admin(1883): [----- Traceback ------]admin(1883): Traceback (most recent call last):admin(1883):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_mainadmin(1883):     main()admin(1883):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 75, in mainadmin(1883):     admin_overview(_('No such list <em>%(safelistname)s</em>'))admin(188
3):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 233, in admi                                              n_overviewadmin(1883):     mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)admin(1883):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __ini                                              t__admin(1883):     self.Load()admin(1883):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 644, in Loadadmin(1883):     raise Errors.MMCorruptListDatabaseError, eadmin(1883): MMCorruptListDatabaseError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/                                              usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'admin(1883): [----- Python Information -----]admin(1883): sys.version     =   2.4.3 (#1, Jul 26 2006, 20:13:39)[GCC 3.4.6]admin(1883): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/pythonadmin(1883): sys.prefix      =   /usradmin(1883): sys.exec_prefix =   /usradmin(1883): sys.path        =   /usradmin(1883): sys.platform    =   linux2admin(1883): [-
---- Environment Variables -----]admin(1883):    SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.37 (Unix)admin(1883):    SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/adminadmin(1883):    SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.37 Server at serverlinux.r                                              evistaoberro.com.br Port 80</ADDRESS>admin(1883):admin(1883):    REQUEST_METHOD: GETadmin(1883):    PATH_INFO: /cartaoberro/logoutadmin(1883):    SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1admin(1883):    QUERY_STRING:admin(1883):    HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5                                              .1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)admin(1883):    HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Aliveadmin(1883):    SERVER_NAME: serverlinux.revistaoberro.com.bradmin(1883):    REMOTE_ADDR: 192.168.0.2admin(1883):    PATH_TRANSLATED: /var/www/htdocs/cartaoberro/logoutadmin(1883):    SERVER_PORT: 80admin(1883):    SERVER_ADDR: 200.171.57.41admin(1883):    DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/htdocsadmin(1883):    PYTHONPATH: /usr/local/mailmanadmin(
1883):    SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin//adminadmin(1883):    SERVER_ADMIN: root at tree.slackware.lanadmin(1883):    HTTP_HOST: serverlinux.revistaoberro.com.bradmin(1883):    REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admin/cartaoberro/logoutadmin(1883):    HTTP_ACCEPT: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg                                              , application/x-shockwave-flash, application/vnd.ms-excel, application/vnd.ms-po                                              werpoint, application/msword, */*admin(1883):    GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1admin(1883):    REMOTE_PORT: 4572admin(1883):    HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: pt-bradmin(1883):    HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflateadmin(1883):    UNIQUE_ID: R9Kc-MirOSkAAASPEZY
>  
> I deleted the file '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/in/1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck' and reboot the server. See log after reboot:
>  
> Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): Traceback (most recent call last):Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 548, in ?Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):      main()Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 390, in mainMar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):      lock = acquire_lock(force)Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 214, in acquire_lockMar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):      lock = acquire_lock_1(force)Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 208, in acquire_lock_1Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114):      os.unlink(os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, tempfile))Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): OSError :  [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/locks/master-qrunner.serverlinux.1148'
> Apache error_log        GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1        REMOTE_PORT: 4322        HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: pt-br        HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate        UNIQUE_ID: R9KXGsirOSkAAAQNA44[Sat Mar  8 11:19:34 2008] [error] [client 192.168.0.2] attempt to invoke directory as script: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin[Sat Mar  8 11:22:24 2008] [error] [client 192.168.0.2] attempt to invoke directory as script: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin[Sat Mar  8 11:55:49 2008] [notice] caught SIGTERM, shutting down[Sat Mar  8 11:57:12 2008] [notice] Apache/1.3.37 (Unix) configured -- resuming normal operations[Sat Mar  8 11:57:12 2008] [notice] Accept mutex: sysvsem (Default: sysvsem)
> Permissionsdrwxrwsr-x root mailman mailman/-rwxrwsr-x root mailman 1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck*
>  
> Please help me to solve this problem.


I want to help you, but it is difficult enough to determine what the 
issues might be without trying to read log entries that are all strung 
together in one line. I understand that this is probably Hotmail's fault 
and not yours directly, but I can't read what you posted.

Please try again, perhaps by putting the log entries in a .txt file and 
attaching it to your message.

In the mean time, run bin/check_perms.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar  9 00:09:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:09:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Updated message catalogs needed for Mailman 2.1.10
Message-ID: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

If you are a language champion or otherwise responsible for a Mailman
translation, please get the updated 2.1.10 message catalog for your
language to me as soon as possible. Mailman 2.1.10 has been in beta for
3 months now, and I have received very few updated translations.

I am planning to release what I hope will be the final beta release of
2.1.10 in a few days. This would be a release candidate rather than a
beta if I had more updated translations.

Thank you for your understanding.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFH0xyZVVuXXpU7hpMRAo1aAKDYiS/wpexcQJqNPi+d0GLK6o2x0gCfTo/Z
24bhI96yktpfx97nDC3XH48=
=PH4r
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From Jim at Fortney.org  Sun Mar  9 00:33:34 2008
From: Jim at Fortney.org (Fortney, James T.)
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:33:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Overload Issues
In-Reply-To: <000001c87fec$d9564c20$8c02e460$@com>
References: <0JXC00EOI3VFWQ5R@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>
	<000001c87fec$d9564c20$8c02e460$@com>
Message-ID: <0JXF00JI0Q8CNC71@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>

At 3/6/2008 04:47 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote:

>My immediate suggestion is to find a new mailman host/provider. Allowing
>only 50 outgoing messages per hour seems to be a little severe. Based upon
>the average size list that we host, I would say 80-100 members would be
>considered a small list by us. How many posts are made to these lists on a
>per day or hour basis? An average figure would do.

It is not clear to me that all of the providers where I am having 
problems are metering the number of messages sent at one time.  At 
least some of my issues appear to be related to the Yahoo and AOL 
type problems discussed on the list in the last few days.

As far as the host that had the 50 messages per hour limit, when 
challenged they revised this to 500 per hour.  Unfortunately, I do 
not consider this a solution.  I have a total of 13 lists at that 
host which vary from 5 to 407 members.  Although all of these lists 
are low volume lists, this limit still prevents even two messages per 
hour from my largest list, and if several of them were active at one 
time I will encounter the limit with what I consider minimal 
activity.  This is clearly an issue I need to pursue with the ISP.

>My suggestion is to check us out at http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html. We do
>not throttle our smtp servers nor do we overload our servers. We have had a
>number of people come to us from other hosts who had treated their mailman
>clients poorly. No one running a mailing list should tolerate the loss of
>mail as being part of the service that they are paying for.

The offering looks great Brian except for the fact that it would be 
10X - 20X more expensive than what I current pay.  I guess you are 
telling me that I am getting what I am paying for.  That may be the 
case but is certainly not what I bargained for when I recently moved 
four domains thinking I was making a positive move.

The limited response to my posting either suggests that you said it 
all, or at least that I am in the minority with this problem.  Since 
you and Mark suggest it is not a chronic Mailman problem, I'll not 
waste anymore bandwidth here.

Thank You,


>Regards,
>Brian
>--------------------------------------

- JimF

--------------------------------------------
James T. Fortney
Jim at Fortney.org
--------------------------------------------


From brian at emwd.com  Sun Mar  9 02:10:53 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 20:10:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Overload Issues
In-Reply-To: <0JXF00JI0Q8CNC71@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0JXC00EOI3VFWQ5R@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>	<000001c87fec$d9564c20$8c02e460$@com>
	<0JXF00JI0Q8CNC71@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <008901c88182$6d6cfd50$4846f7f0$@com>

> As far as the host that had the 50 messages per hour limit, when
> challenged they revised this to 500 per hour.  Unfortunately, I do
> not consider this a solution.  I have a total of 13 lists at that
> host which vary from 5 to 407 members.  Although all of these lists
> are low volume lists, this limit still prevents even two messages per
> hour from my largest list, and if several of them were active at one
> time I will encounter the limit with what I consider minimal
> activity.  This is clearly an issue I need to pursue with the ISP.
> 
> The offering looks great Brian except for the fact that it would be
> 10X - 20X more expensive than what I current pay.  I guess you are
> telling me that I am getting what I am paying for.  That may be the
> case but is certainly not what I bargained for when I recently moved
> four domains thinking I was making a positive move.

I am not sure what you are paying but had you contacted me off list then I
am sure we could have worked something out. If you are serious about your
lists then contact off list.

With that said, I would say you are getting what you paid for. If you want
to stay with a web host that will not allow you to make full use of your
mailing lists just to save a few dollars a month then that is your choice.
The amount we charge is a fair price and it allows us not to have to
overload our servers to the point that we are force to take unfair measures
such as throttling our smtp servers.

> The limited response to my posting either suggests that you said it
> all, or at least that I am in the minority with this problem.  Since
> you and Mark suggest it is not a chronic Mailman problem, I'll not
> waste anymore bandwidth here.

You are not having a mailman problem at all. You are having a cheap hosting
solution problem and I am not sure how we can help you with that except
point you to a some better choices.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"





From techmgr at case.org.au  Sun Mar  9 02:47:15 2008
From: techmgr at case.org.au (Darrell Burkey)
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:47:15 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserve HTML format while scrubbing file
	attachments
Message-ID: <01be01c88187$80c150e0$0401a8c0@unidb>

I have spent years campaigning against HTML email so I can't believe I'm
asking this but no accounting for the wishes of users. :-(

I've read the FAQs until my eyes are square and I can see some discussions
in the mailing list archives but no definitive answer to essentially this
post in 2006:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg40147.html

which asks if there is a way to preserve html formatted messages while still
having file attachments scrubbed? I don't think the replies to the above
message really understood what was being asked as I'm not worried about the
archives at this point in time, rather I just want a message that a user
sends that contains html formatting to retain that formatting and have any
file attachment sent converted to a link (scrubbed).

What I get now if a html email with a file attachment comes through to a
list is a message distributed with the following scrub notifications (and
the message in plain text):

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://www.communitylists.org.au/mailman/private/case-test/attachments/20080
309/f127997e/attachment.html 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: CASE_SLA.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 91582 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.communitylists.org.au/mailman/private/case-test/attachments/20080
309/f127997e/attachment.pdf 

I'm using MailMan 2.1.9, fairly stock CentOS system with sendmail. Lovely
mhonarc/htdig integration patches by OpenInfo. 

I've set ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER to various values and tried every
combination of Content Filtering, Non-Digest file scrubbing settings a
person could ever come up with. Many hours of testing gone by. 

I Would really appreciate some assistance as it just doesn't seem possible
to me that MailMan can't preserver html messages and at the same time scrub
file attachments given all the great work that has been done on it in the
last few years.

Cheers from down under.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Darrell Burkey
0408 622 647 


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Mar  9 04:04:18 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 21:04:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Overload Issues
In-Reply-To: <0JXF00JI0Q8CNC71@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0JXC00EOI3VFWQ5R@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>
	<000001c87fec$d9564c20$8c02e460$@com>
	<0JXF00JI0Q8CNC71@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3f9031d1732@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/8/08, Fortney, James T. wrote:

>  The offering looks great Brian except for the fact that it would be
>  10X - 20X more expensive than what I current pay.  I guess you are
>  telling me that I am getting what I am paying for.

Yup.

>                                                      That may be the
>  case but is certainly not what I bargained for when I recently moved
>  four domains thinking I was making a positive move.

Be that as it may, most providers just aren't in any kind of position 
to provide any kind of even moderately decent quality mailing list 
services.  It may be an unpleasant surprise after-the-fact, but 
there's not much we can do to soften that blow.

>  The limited response to my posting either suggests that you said it
>  all, or at least that I am in the minority with this problem.  Since
>  you and Mark suggest it is not a chronic Mailman problem, I'll not
>  waste anymore bandwidth here.

Even large education sites like the University of Texas at Austin 
(where I now work) can have problems getting mail to or from sites 
like Yahoo or AOL, but the problems you seem to be experiencing are 
much more likely to be a limit placed on you by your own provider. 
Unless you're willing to switch providers, I don't see that there's 
anything more we can do to help you.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Mar  9 04:09:08 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 21:09:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserve HTML format while scrubbing file
 attachments
In-Reply-To: <01be01c88187$80c150e0$0401a8c0@unidb>
References: <01be01c88187$80c150e0$0401a8c0@unidb>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3f9048c6d24@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/9/08, Darrell Burkey wrote:

>  I've read the FAQs until my eyes are square and I can see some discussions
>  in the mailing list archives but no definitive answer to essentially this
>  post in 2006:
>
>  http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg40147.html
>
>  which asks if there is a way to preserve html formatted messages while still
>  having file attachments scrubbed? I don't think the replies to the above
>  message really understood what was being asked as I'm not worried about the
>  archives at this point in time, rather I just want a message that a user
>  sends that contains html formatting to retain that formatting and have any
>  file attachment sent converted to a link (scrubbed).

Yes, we did understand.  Given the highly variable nature of the way 
that mail clients generate and interpret MIME/HTML formatted 
messages, there simply isn't a general way to do this sort of thing. 
What works for one client is likely to break others.  The archive 
scrubbing stuff that Mailman can do for digests can also be applied 
to regular messages passing through the list, but the effect is the 
same.

Teach them not to post in HTML, or teach them to live with HTML being 
converted to plain text, all the while their attachments can either 
be completely stripped from the message, or they can be scrubbed as 
appropriate.  But any time you go mucking about with the internal 
structure of a mail message, the output is not likely to be as 
attractive as the sender would like.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar  9 04:22:38 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 19:22:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserve HTML format while scrubbing
	fileattachments
In-Reply-To: <01be01c88187$80c150e0$0401a8c0@unidb>
Message-ID: <PC17602008030819223801258c6d2043@msapiro>

Darrell Burkey wrote:
>
>I've read the FAQs until my eyes are square and I can see some discussions
>in the mailing list archives but no definitive answer to essentially this
>post in 2006:
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg40147.html
>
>which asks if there is a way to preserve html formatted messages while still
>having file attachments scrubbed?


No. (Is that definitive enough?)


>I don't think the replies to the above
>message really understood what was being asked as I'm not worried about the
>archives at this point in time, rather I just want a message that a user
>sends that contains html formatting to retain that formatting and have any
>file attachment sent converted to a link (scrubbed).


The replies to the above referenced post talk about archiving because
the job of the scrubber is to produce a flat, text/plain message with
non text/plain parts stored and replaced by links for the pipermail
archiver. The fact that the scrubber can also be used to do the same
job on a message to be delivered to the list, and also does the same
job for the plain format digest doesn't change its job description.


>What I get now if a html email with a file attachment comes through to a
>list is a message distributed with the following scrub notifications (and
>the message in plain text):
>
>-------------- next part --------------
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL:
>http://www.communitylists.org.au/mailman/private/case-test/attachments/20080
>309/f127997e/attachment.html 
>-------------- next part --------------
>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>Name: CASE_SLA.pdf
>Type: application/pdf
>Size: 91582 bytes
>Desc: not available
>Url :
>http://www.communitylists.org.au/mailman/private/case-test/attachments/20080
>309/f127997e/attachment.pdf 


That's exactly what the scrubber is supposed to do.


>I'm using MailMan 2.1.9, fairly stock CentOS system with sendmail. Lovely
>mhonarc/htdig integration patches by OpenInfo. 
>
>I've set ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER to various values and tried every
>combination of Content Filtering, Non-Digest file scrubbing settings a
>person could ever come up with. Many hours of testing gone by. 
>
>I Would really appreciate some assistance as it just doesn't seem possible
>to me that MailMan can't preserver html messages and at the same time scrub
>file attachments given all the great work that has been done on it in the
>last few years.


Its never been a requirement. ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER doesn't come into
it. That has to do with how the removed HTML parts are stored in the
archive.

The problem is, as I try to explain above, that pipermail can only
archive plain text so the scrubber's job is to produce a flat
text/plain message suitable for pipermail archiving, and that's the
job it does whether it does it for the archive, the plain digest or
all messages.

If you want HTML delivered to the list, you have to set scrub_nondigest
to No. Then, your options are to pass the message as is to the list,
in which case you set filter_content to No, or to remove (and not
store) some MIME parts based on Content-Type or filename extension, in
which case you set filter_content to Yes, collapse_alternatives and
convert_html_to_plaintext to No and the other content filtering
settings as you wish.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From techmgr at case.org.au  Sun Mar  9 04:44:15 2008
From: techmgr at case.org.au (Darrell Burkey)
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 14:44:15 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Preserve HTML format while scrubbing file
	attachments
Message-ID: <01cc01c88197$d8bda090$0401a8c0@unidb>


So, the simple answer is 'No, it is not possible to both preserve HTML
formatted email messages and scrub file attachments', right? 

I believe you and understand your explanation (which I appreciate you taking
the time to provide). It just seems odd that this is not possible. And no, I
don't want to have a crack at it. :-)

I'm perfectly happy to have the messages in plain text with attachments
scrubbed both in the distributed messages and the archive. I'm just a bit
tired of explaining to users why it's that way and would prefer to let them
wallow in their HTML rubbish if they prefer. 

Indeed, they are so insistent about their precious HTML that it may come
down to having to allow file attachments just to apease them. And that's yet
another thing I'm so very tired of explaining to users is a very bad idea.
Let's send a 5Mb one page Word document to 500 people who don't want it.
Ugh. 

Maybe mailing lists themeselves aren't that great of an idea any more. They
sure can give me the poos. :-)

Cheers.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org]
> Sent: Sunday, 9 March 2008 2:09 PM
> To: techmgr at case.org.au; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Preserve HTML format while 
> scrubbing file attachments
> 
> 
> On 3/9/08, Darrell Burkey wrote:
> 
> >  I've read the FAQs until my eyes are square and I can see some
> > discussions  in the mailing list archives but no definitive 
> answer to
> > essentially this  post in 2006:
> >
> >  http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg40147.html
> >
> >  which asks if there is a way to preserve html formatted messages
> > while still  having file attachments scrubbed? I don't think the 
> > replies to the above  message really understood what was 
> being asked
> > as I'm not worried about the  archives at this point in
> time, rather I
> > just want a message that a user  sends that contains html
> formatting
> > to retain that formatting and have any  file attachment
> sent converted
> > to a link (scrubbed).
> 
> Yes, we did understand.  Given the highly variable nature of the way
> that mail clients generate and interpret MIME/HTML formatted 
> messages, there simply isn't a general way to do this sort of thing. 
> What works for one client is likely to break others.  The archive 
> scrubbing stuff that Mailman can do for digests can also be applied 
> to regular messages passing through the list, but the effect is the 
> same.
> 
> Teach them not to post in HTML, or teach them to live with HTML being
> converted to plain text, all the while their attachments can either 
> be completely stripped from the message, or they can be scrubbed as 
> appropriate.  But any time you go mucking about with the internal 
> structure of a mail message, the output is not likely to be as 
> attractive as the sender would like.
> 
> --
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
> 


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Mar  9 06:50:00 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 14:50:00 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Preserve HTML format while scrubbing
	file	attachments
In-Reply-To: <01cc01c88197$d8bda090$0401a8c0@unidb>
References: <01cc01c88197$d8bda090$0401a8c0@unidb>
Message-ID: <87ejake99z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Darrell Burkey writes:

 > It just seems odd that this is not possible.

Well, it would be if MUA writers implemented the MIME definitions
precisely.  But they don't.

 > Indeed, they are so insistent about their precious HTML

Why do they want HTML, anyway?  Do they say?  Maybe there's some way
to give them most of what they really want without putting up with the
whole nine yards.

 > Maybe mailing lists themeselves aren't that great of an idea any
 > more.

There are better ways to do lots of things, to be sure.  Netnews is
one, wikis are another, blogs yet another, web fora yet another.  But
mailing lists can't yet be replaced in all uses.

Regards,

From rick at learntime.com  Sun Mar  9 15:12:11 2008
From: rick at learntime.com (Rick Harris)
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 09:12:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803080848590921e1be4054@msapiro>
References: <012301c8812d$85a78980$90f69c80$@com>
	<PC1760200803080848590921e1be4054@msapiro>
Message-ID: <014201c881ef$915edfe0$b41c9fa0$@com>

I set personalize to yes several weeks ago hoping that it would resolve my
delivery issues to Yahoo.  After a posting sent yesterday morning at 5:30 am
arrived at my local ISP address today at 4:25am (22 hour delay counting
daylight savings time change), I am going to try to be more insistent with
my hosting company.  Moving hosts is a pain, but this is bothering me enough
to consider it.

Thanks to all those who have responded to this.

Rick Harris


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:49 AM
To: Rick Harris; 'Matt Morgan'
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL

Rick Harris wrote:
>
>I queried my hosts regarding a mail transport issue and sent them headers
>from messages in question.  Here is the response:
>
>"According to my investigations the message contained more than 10
>recipients. That's why the first 10 recipients got their emails
immediatelly
>and other copies of the message were delayed. I just advise you to
>reconfigure your maillist software to send individual email to each
>recipient."


So the host is providing Mailman hosting that doesn't work and when you
complain the host blames the software which it provides.

The only option you have to configure mailman to send individual
messages is, if the host allows it, to set Non-digest options ->
personalize to Yes. If this setting does not appear as the second item
on the Non-digest options page, then the Mailman installation doesn't
allow it.

The other way to send individual messages is VERP like delivery, but
this is completely controlled by the host.


>Should I be looking for different hosting?


I would. See Brian's reply, and Brian's and my replies in the thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-March/060682.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From unix at bikesn4x4s.com  Sun Mar  9 16:34:13 2008
From: unix at bikesn4x4s.com (Paul)
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 11:34:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
In-Reply-To: <014201c881ef$915edfe0$b41c9fa0$@com>
References: <012301c8812d$85a78980$90f69c80$@com>
	<PC1760200803080848590921e1be4054@msapiro>
	<014201c881ef$915edfe0$b41c9fa0$@com>
Message-ID: <1170.192.168.103.1.1205076853.squirrel@bikesn4x4s.com>

On Sun, March 9, 2008 10:12 am, Rick Harris wrote:
> I set personalize to yes several weeks ago hoping that it would resolve my
> delivery issues to Yahoo.  After a posting sent yesterday morning at 5:30
> am
> arrived at my local ISP address today at 4:25am (22 hour delay counting
> daylight savings time change), I am going to try to be more insistent with
> my hosting company.  Moving hosts is a pain, but this is bothering me
> enough
> to consider it.

Have you considered hosting yourself?  Some ISP's actually do let
customers run servers and have fixed IP address.  Speakeasy.net is one of
them.  I've been using them for 7 years now, and consider them the best of
the best.


From boxenberg at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  9 17:03:57 2008
From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg)
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:03:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
In-Reply-To: <1170.192.168.103.1.1205076853.squirrel@bikesn4x4s.com>
References: <012301c8812d$85a78980$90f69c80$@com>
	<PC1760200803080848590921e1be4054@msapiro>
	<014201c881ef$915edfe0$b41c9fa0$@com> 
	<1170.192.168.103.1.1205076853.squirrel@bikesn4x4s.com>
Message-ID: <BLU117-W368AA319D9DB0A2E676ACAA30D0@phx.gbl>

Hi,
Actually, Paul has an excellent suggestion and I am surprised at myself for not thinking of it until reading his reply.
I have a (unmanaged) Virtual Private Server (VPS) hosted by TekTonic (http://www.tektonic.net) running Debian 4.2 Etch.
For $15/month I get a VM consisting of 10GB of disk space and a memory allocation of 256MB.  The rate they charge varies by the amount of resources you wish to have - the more disk space and memory the higher the rate.  Still, at that price I have complete control over the machine, can even reinstall the O/S if I so choose (or need <g>), a web based graphical administration interface, and can monitor my bandwidth usage in real time.
May be worth looking in to...
Cheers!
Dov



> Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 11:34:13 -0400> From: unix at bikesn4x4s.com> To: mailman-users at python.org> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL> > On Sun, March 9, 2008 10:12 am, Rick Harris wrote:> > I set personalize to yes several weeks ago hoping that it would resolve my> > delivery issues to Yahoo. After a posting sent yesterday morning at 5:30> > am> > arrived at my local ISP address today at 4:25am (22 hour delay counting> > daylight savings time change), I am going to try to be more insistent with> > my hosting company. Moving hosts is a pain, but this is bothering me> > enough> > to consider it.> > Have you considered hosting yourself? Some ISP's actually do let> customers run servers and have fixed IP address. Speakeasy.net is one of> them. I've been using them for 7 years now, and consider them the best of> the best.> > ------------------------------------------------------> Mailman-Users mailing list> Mailman-Users at python.org> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/boxenberg%40hotmail.com> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From iming.chen at spja.org  Sun Mar  9 20:03:11 2008
From: iming.chen at spja.org (I-Ming Chen)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 12:03:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Installation - broken pipe / operating
	system error
Message-ID: <47D4346F.7030403@spja.org>

Hi,

I've been trying to figure out this problem and I've seen some mention of it in 
past mailing list archives but I still cannot figure it out. I'm getting the 
following message in my Logwatch file:

System Error Messages:
   putbody: write error: Broken pipe: 164 Time(s)
   Cannot exec /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.9/contrib/mm-handler: Permission 
denied: 168 Time(s)


I think this is related to the "operating system error" that I've seen elsewhere 
as well but I can't figure it out yet. What's causing these series of errors?

As for mm-handler, it's owned by root.mailman. It used to have permissions 644 
which I assume made it unable to run so I altered it to 654. However, the same 
error still appears. Any suggestions?

I-Ming Chen


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar  9 20:17:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:17:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Installation - broken pipe /
	operatingsystem error
In-Reply-To: <47D4346F.7030403@spja.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803091217580484b8fef27e@msapiro>

I-Ming Chen wrote:
>
>I've been trying to figure out this problem and I've seen some mention of it in 
>past mailing list archives but I still cannot figure it out. I'm getting the 
>following message in my Logwatch file:
>
>System Error Messages:
>   putbody: write error: Broken pipe: 164 Time(s)
>   Cannot exec /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.9/contrib/mm-handler: Permission 
>denied: 168 Time(s)
>
>
>I think this is related to the "operating system error" that I've seen elsewhere 
>as well but I can't figure it out yet. What's causing these series of errors?
>
>As for mm-handler, it's owned by root.mailman. It used to have permissions 644 
>which I assume made it unable to run so I altered it to 654. However, the same 
>error still appears. Any suggestions?


mm-handler is contributed, unsupported software.

However, your MTA is the process that executes it, so it must be
readable and executable by your MTA which probably doesn't run in the
mailman group.

If you make it's permissions 755, it should work (or at least get to
the next problem).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Sun Mar  9 23:41:06 2008
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:41:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
In-Reply-To: <1170.192.168.103.1.1205076853.squirrel@bikesn4x4s.com>
Message-ID: <C3F9D1B2.54FEC%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 3/9/08 10:34 AM, Paul at unix at bikesn4x4s.com wrote:

> Have you considered hosting yourself?  Some ISP's actually do let
> customers run servers and have fixed IP address.  Speakeasy.net is one of
> them.  I've been using them for 7 years now, and consider them the best of
> the best.

I'm with Speakeasy as well and completely agree with both the idea of doing
it yourself (as I do on a Macintosh) and using Speakeasy.

Besides just the fact that they have a servers permitted policy, they also
have clueful technical support who will actually believe you when you say
you've toubleshot your end and you're sure it's their problem (which is a
rare in any event). On the rare occasions I need to call, the person who
answers is almost always able to discuss the issue in real technical terms
and deal with problem without having to refer it to "level 2" or "level 3"
support.

I also had no problem having them change the reverse DNS on my address to my
domain name, something that makes spam detection software happier.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From listeyon at metu.edu.tr  Mon Mar 10 08:48:23 2008
From: listeyon at metu.edu.tr (liste yoneticisi)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:48:23 +0200 (WET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a question about content-filtering
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803071942310109f83bc28c@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200803071942310109f83bc28c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.58.0803100944140.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 3/7/08, Mark Sapiro quoted liste yoneticisi <listeyon at metu.edu.tr>:
>
>>>Is there a patch that giving information for filtered extension.
>>>
>>>  I mean i am filtering *.mpg for example.
>>>  If someone sends an attachment with mpg extension, e-mail is delivered
>>>  without attachment and without any information about filtering.
>
>	[ ... deletia ... ]
>
>>  It is certainly possible, but as far as I know, there is no published
>>  patch for it.
>
>What about scrub_nondigest?  Wouldn't that do what the OP was asking for?


>Possibly. If the OP is willing to turn off content filtering or limit
>it to collapse_alternatives and then have all non-text/plain and
>characterset unknown parts stored and replaced with hyperlinks in the
>delivered posts, then yes, scrub_nondigest would do it.

Actually I just want a vissible message for deleted/filtered attachments.

You once sent a patch cok uppercase attachments.(I copied below) Is it
possible to add a command in order to add message (or information) to a
suitable part of this file??

But i don't know the the programming language for mailman.

Thank you fot your consideration and cooperation.

"""
The conversion of *_filename_extensions to lower case is intentional,
but we neglected to convert the actual extension in the message to
lower case for comparison.

The following patch will be in Mailman 2.1.10 and will fix the problem.

--- Mailman/Handlers/MimeDel.py 2005-12-30 18:50:08 +0000
+++ Mailman/Handlers/MimeDel.py 2007-10-05 01:01:24 +0000
@@ -256,4 +256,4 @@
             fext = fext[1:]
         else:
             fext = ''
-    return fext
+    return fext.lower()

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
"""



From listeyon at metu.edu.tr  Mon Mar 10 08:52:36 2008
From: listeyon at metu.edu.tr (liste yoneticisi)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:52:36 +0200 (WET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Announce] Updated message catalogs
 needed for Mailman 2.1.10
In-Reply-To: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>
References: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>


Bu ?al??mada T?rk?e Mailman i?in giri?imde bulunan var m??
Bu listede T?rkiye'den kimler var? Bu konuda i?birli?i yapabilir miyiz?

(An explanation to all: I just asked if there is anyone who
responsible for Turkish translation of Mailman, attended to these lists
from Turkiye.)

----------------
Liste Yoneticisi
http://e-list.cc.metu.edu.tr
http://e-liste.bidb.odtu.edu.tr

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

If you are a language champion or otherwise responsible for a Mailman
translation, please get the updated 2.1.10 message catalog for your
language to me as soon as possible. Mailman 2.1.10 has been in beta for
3 months now, and I have received very few updated translations.

I am planning to release what I hope will be the final beta release of
2.1.10 in a few days. This would be a release candidate rather than a
beta if I had more updated translations.

Thank you for your understanding.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)

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24bhI96yktpfx97nDC3XH48=
=PH4r
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
Mailman-announce mailing list
Mailman-announce at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce
Member address: listeyon at metu.edu.tr
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-announce/listeyon%40metu.edu.tr

From fabriciopoliveira at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 10 12:19:28 2008
From: fabriciopoliveira at hotmail.com (Fabricio Oliveira)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:19:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
Message-ID: <BLU107-W150B1D5718C2F8EF0AC921A70E0@phx.gbl>


Hi Mark, See attachment file with the log. Thanks. Regards,Fabr?cio> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 09:05:25 -0800> From: mark at msapiro.net> To: fabriciopoliveira at hotmail.com> CC: mailman-users at python.org> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9> > Fabricio Oliveira wrote:> > Hi,> > > > When I try access the page of Mailman appear the error bellow:> > > > Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9> > We're sorry, we hit a bug!Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. > > > > I changed permissions of directorys, but don't work. I do the instructions discribe in following links: http://archive.netbsd.se/?ml=mailman-users&a=2007-11&t=5744516, http://www.forum.techcuriosity.com/viewtopic.php?p=376&sid=0193ffbab1bee8e67dce3657319f4f83 and http://forum.swsoft.com/pda/index.php/t-48560.html, but don't work too.> > > > Log - /usr/local/mailman/logs/error> > > > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): Traceback (most recent call last):Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File '/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner', line 278, in ?Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): main()Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File '/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner', line 238, in mainMar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): qrunner.run()Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File '/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py', line 71, in runMar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): filecnt = self._oneloop()Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File '/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py', line 100, in _oneloopMar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File '/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py', line 150, in dequeueMar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): fp = open(filename)Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): IOError : [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/loc> al/mailman/qfiles/in/1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck insecure string pickleMar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck.last invalid load key, '?'.Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) All cartaoberro fallbacks were corrupt, giving upMar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pckinsecure string pickleMar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman> /lists/cartaoberro/config.pck.lastinvalid load key, '?'.Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/c artaoberro/config.db[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) All cartaoberro fallbacks were corrupt, giving upMar 08 11:04:45 2008 admin(1883): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@admin(1883): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]admin(1883): [----- Traceback ------]admin(1883): Traceback (most recent call last):admin(1883): File '/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver', line 101, in run_mainadmin(1883): main()admin(1883): File '/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py', line 75, in mainadmin(1883): admin_overview(_('No such list <em>%(safelistname)s</em>'))admin(188> 3): File '/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py', line 233, in admi n_overviewadmin(1883): mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)admin(1883): File '/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py', line 130, in __ini t__admin(1883): self.Load()admin(1883): File '/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py', line 644, in Loadadmin(1883): raise Errors.MMCorruptListDatabaseError, eadmin(1883): MMCorruptListDatabaseError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/ usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'admin(1883): [----- Python Information -----]admin(1883): sys.version = 2.4.3 (#1, Jul 26 2006, 20:13:39)[GCC 3.4.6]admin(1883): sys.executable = /usr/bin/pythonadmin(1883): sys.prefix = /usradmin(1883): sys.exec_prefix = /usradmin(1883): sys.path = /usradmin(1883): sys.platform = linux2admin(1883): [-> ---- Environment Variables -----]admin(1883): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.37 (Unix)admin(1883): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/adminadmin(1883): SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.37 Server at serverlinux.r evistaoberro.com.br Port 80</ADDRESS>admin(1883):admin(1883): REQUEST_METHOD: GETadmin(1883): PATH_INFO: /cartaoberro/logoutadmin(1883): SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1admin(1883): QUERY_STRING:admin(1883): HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5 .1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)admin(1883): HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Aliveadmin(1883): SERVER_NAME: serverlinux.revistaoberro.com.bradmin(1883): REMOTE_ADDR: 192.168.0.2admin(1883): PATH_TRANSLATED: /var/www/htdocs/cartaoberro/logoutadmin(1883): SERVER_PORT: 80admin(1883): SERVER_ADDR: 200.171.57.41admin(1883): DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/htdocsadmin(1883): PYTHONPATH: /usr/local/mailmanadmin(> 1883): SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin//adminadmin(1883): SERVER_ADMIN: root at tree.slackware.lanadmin(1883): HTTP_HOST: serverlinux.revistaoberro.com.bradmin(1883): REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admin/cartaoberro/logoutadmin(1883): HTTP_ACCEPT: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg , application/x-shockwave-flash, application/vnd.ms-excel, application/vnd.ms-po werpoint, application/msword, */*admin(1883): GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1admin(1883): REMOTE_PORT: 4572admin(1883): HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: pt-bradmin(1883): HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflateadmin(1883): UNIQUE_ID: R9Kc-MirOSkAAASPEZY> > > > I deleted the file '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/in/1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck' and reboot the server. See log after reboot:> > > > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): Traceback (most recent call last):Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): File '/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl', line 548, in ?Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): main()Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): File '/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl', line 390, in mainMar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): lock = acquire_lock(force)Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): File '/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl', line 214, in acquire_lockMar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): lock = acquire_lock_1(force)Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): File '/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl', line 208, in acquire_lock_1Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): os.unlink(os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, tempfile))Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): OSError : [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/locks/master-qrunner.serverlinux.1148'> > Apache error_log GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 REMOTE_PORT: 4322 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: pt-br HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate UNIQUE_ID: R9KXGsirOSkAAAQNA44[Sat Mar 8 11:19:34 2008] [error] [client 192.168.0.2] attempt to invoke directory as script: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin[Sat Mar 8 11:22:24 2008] [error] [client 192.168.0.2] attempt to invoke directory as script: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin[Sat Mar 8 11:55:49 2008] [notice] caught SIGTERM, shutting down[Sat Mar 8 11:57:12 2008] [notice] Apache/1.3.37 (Unix) configured -- resuming normal operations[Sat Mar 8 11:57:12 2008] [notice] Accept mutex: sysvsem (Default: sysvsem)> > Permissionsdrwxrwsr-x root mailman mailman/-rwxrwsr-x root mailman 1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck*> > > > Please help me to solve this problem.> > > I want to help you, but it is difficult enough to determine what the > issues might be without trying to read log entries that are all strung > together in one line. I understand that this is probably Hotmail's fault > and not yours directly, but I can't read what you posted.> > Please try again, perhaps by putting the log entries in a .txt file and > attaching it to your message.> > In the mean time, run bin/check_perms.> > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan> 
_________________________________________________________________
Cansado de espa?o para s? 50 fotos? Conhe?a o Spaces, o site de relacionamentos com at? 6,000 fotos!
http://www.amigosdomessenger.com.br
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From cp at ccil.org  Mon Mar 10 14:23:18 2008
From: cp at ccil.org (Chuck Peters)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:23:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] minimizing spam addresses on web site
Message-ID: <cfd69f2e0803100623m463c407h15fc8f28c9240174@mail.gmail.com>

A couple days ago I saw a post on the dev list about backscatter spam and
also found a thread about someone's attempt at changing the -owner address,
that didn't appear to be successful.  That and the further problem newly
created address for the mailman-owner getting 200 spam a day tells me I need
to do something about this mess.

I would like to replace all mailto: links to a
http://mailhide.recaptcha.netURL.  I changed the listinfo page on a
test list, but changing it throughout
a list's pages isn't as trivial.  It appears that part of the footer code is
def GetMailmanFooter in Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py.

I have very little experience hacking python and could really use some help
getting this to work.  Besides I think this could be useful for lots of
others who are sick of the deluge of spam.  Any suggestions?


Thanks,
Chuck

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Mar 10 14:58:45 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:58:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] minimizing spam addresses on web site
In-Reply-To: <cfd69f2e0803100623m463c407h15fc8f28c9240174@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cfd69f2e0803100623m463c407h15fc8f28c9240174@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47D53E95.2040008@Media-Brokers.com>

On 3/10/2008, Chuck Peters (cp at ccil.org) wrote:
> A couple days ago I saw a post on the dev list about backscatter spam
> and also found a thread about someone's attempt at changing the
> -owner address, that didn't appear to be successful. That and the
> further problem newly created address for the mailman-owner getting
> 200 spam a day tells me I need to do something about this mess.

Use some kind of anti-spam on your MTA to deal with this problem... it 
is very sub-optimal to try to deal with it at the mailman level.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Mon Mar 10 19:33:27 2008
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:33:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] minimizing spam addresses on web site
In-Reply-To: <cfd69f2e0803100623m463c407h15fc8f28c9240174@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cfd69f2e0803100623m463c407h15fc8f28c9240174@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <616BDA873630B8672C2F7492@[10.0.0.14]>

--On Monday, March 10, 2008 9:23 AM -0400 Chuck Peters <cp at ccil.org> wrote:

> A couple days ago I saw a post on the dev list about backscatter spam and
> also found a thread about someone's attempt at changing the -owner
> address, that didn't appear to be successful.  That and the further
> problem newly created address for the mailman-owner getting 200 spam a
> day tells me I need to do something about this mess.

A wiki page was started with info on how to control backscatter. Feel free 
to add to it.

<http://wiki.list.org/display/SEC/Controlling+spam>

> I would like to replace all mailto: links to a
> http://mailhide.recaptcha.netURL.  I changed the listinfo page on a
> test list, but changing it throughout
> a list's pages isn't as trivial.  It appears that part of the footer code
> is def GetMailmanFooter in Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py.

I hadn't thought of mailto's in the web pages. As more info on this is 
developed, please add to the wiki. Thanks.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 10 20:16:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:16:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <BLU107-W150B1D5718C2F8EF0AC921A70E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU107-W150B1D5718C2F8EF0AC921A70E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47D58913.50208@msapiro.net>

Fabricio Oliveira wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>  
> See attachment file with the log.


Thank you for reposting the logs as an attachment. That is much better.

Here is your log data with my comments interspersed.

 > Log - /usr/local/mailman/logs/error
 >
 > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): Traceback (most recent call last):
 > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File 
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
 > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): main()
 > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File 
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
 > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): qrunner.run()
 > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File 
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
 > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): filecnt = self._oneloop()
 > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File 
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
 > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): msg, msgdata = 
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
 > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File 
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in dequeue
 > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): fp = open(filename)
 > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): IOError : [Errno 13] Permission 
denied: 
'/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/in/1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck'


This says that IncomingRunner can't read the referenced queue entry 
file.  Based on the permissions you show below, this would seem 
impossible unless IncomingRunner was not running in the mailman group or 
there is some SELinux or other security policy preventing it. This can 
be caused by the runner being manually started or mailmanctl being run 
by a non-root user.


 > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file 
/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck insecure string pickle
 > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file 
/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck.last invalid load key, '?'.
 > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file 
/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db [Errno 2] No such file or 
directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db'
 > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file 
/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last[Errno 2] No such 
file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'
 > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) All cartaoberro fallbacks were corrupt, 
giving up
 > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file 
/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pckinsecure string pickle
 > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file 
/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck.lastinvalid load key, '?'.
 > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file 
/usr/local/mailman/lists/c artaoberro/config.db[Errno 2] No such file or 
directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db'
 > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file 
/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last[Errno 2] No such 
file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'
 > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) All cartaoberro fallbacks were corrupt, 
giving up


This and the error below are the same error from the admin web 
interface. It appears that both the config.pck and config.pck.last for 
the cartaoberro list are corrupt (the config.db* files normally don't 
exist in a mailman 2.1.x installation).


 > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 admin(1883): 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
 > admin(1883): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]
 > admin(1883): [----- Traceback ------]
 > admin(1883): Traceback (most recent call last):
 > admin(1883): File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in 
run_main
 > admin(1883): main()
 > admin(1883): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 75, 
in main
 > admin(1883): admin_overview(_('No such list <em>%(safelistname)s</em>'))
 > admin(1883): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 
233, in admi n_overview
 > admin(1883): mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)
 > admin(1883): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, 
in __ini t__
 > admin(1883): self.Load()admin(1883): File 
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 644, in Load
 > admin(1883): raise Errors.MMCorruptListDatabaseError, e
 > admin(1883): MMCorruptListDatabaseError: [Errno 2] No such file or 
directory: '/ usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'
 > admin(1883): [----- Python Information -----]
 > admin(1883): sys.version = 2.4.3 (#1, Jul 26 2006, 20:13:39)[GCC 3.4.6]
 > admin(1883): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python
 > admin(1883): sys.prefix = /usr
 > admin(1883): sys.exec_prefix = /usr
 > admin(1883): sys.path = /usr
 > admin(1883): sys.platform = linux2
 > admin(1883): [----- Environment Variables -----]
 > admin(1883): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.37 (Unix)
 > admin(1883): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admin
 > admin(1883): SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.37 Server at 
serverlinux.r evistaoberro.com.br Port 80</ADDRESS>
 > admin(1883):
 > admin(1883): REQUEST_METHOD: GET
 > admin(1883): PATH_INFO: /cartaoberro/logoutadmin(1883): 
SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
 > admin(1883): QUERY_STRING:
 > admin(1883): HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; 
Windows NT 5 .1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)
 > admin(1883): HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
 > admin(1883): SERVER_NAME: serverlinux.revistaoberro.com.br
 > admin(1883): REMOTE_ADDR: 192.168.0.2
 > admin(1883): PATH_TRANSLATED: /var/www/htdocs/cartaoberro/logout
 > admin(1883): SERVER_PORT: 80
 > admin(1883): SERVER_ADDR: 200.171.57.41
 > admin(1883): DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/htdocs
 > admin(1883): PYTHONPATH: /usr/local/mailman
 > admin(1883): SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin//admin
 > admin(1883): SERVER_ADMIN: root at tree.slackware.lan
 > admin(1883): HTTP_HOST: serverlinux.revistaoberro.com.br
 > admin(1883): REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admin/cartaoberro/logout
 > admin(1883): HTTP_ACCEPT: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, 
image/pjpeg , application/x-shockwave-flash  application/vnd.ms-excel, 
application/vnd.ms-po
 >
 > I deleted the file 
'/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/in/1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck' 
and reboot the server. See log after reboot:
 >
 > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): Traceback (most recent call last):
 > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): File 
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 548, in ?
 > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): main()
 > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): File 
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 390, in main
 > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): lock = acquire_lock(force)
 > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): File 
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 214, in acquire_lock
 > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): lock = acquire_lock_1(force)
 > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): File 
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 208, in acquire_lock_1
 > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): 
os.unlink(os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, tempfile))
 > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): OSError : [Errno 2] No such 
file or directory: 
'/usr/local/mailman/locks/master-qrunner.serverlinux.1148'
 >


This indicates that possibly mailmanctl is being started twice, or there 
is some other issue with lock files. See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp> 
for information about making sure Mailman is completely shut down, then 
remove all the files from Mailman's locks/ directory and as root, run 
'bin/mailmanctl start' once only.


 > Apache error_log
 >  GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
 >  REMOTE_PORT: 4322
 >  HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: pt-br
 >  HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate
 >  UNIQUE_ID: R9KXGsirOSkAAAQNA44
 > [Sat Mar 8 11:19:34 2008] [error] [client 192.168.0.2] attempt to 
invoke directory as script: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin
 > [Sat Mar 8 11:22:24 2008] [error] [client 192.168.0.2] attempt to 
invoke directory as script: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin


These seem to be the result of an Apache misconfiguration. They occur 15 
and 18 minutes respectively after the admin error above. Did you perhaps 
change some Apache ScriptAlias directive in response to the admin error 
above?


 > [Sat Mar 8 11:55:49 2008] [notice] caught SIGTERM, shutting down
 > [Sat Mar 8 11:57:12 2008] [notice] Apache/1.3.37 (Unix) configured -- 
resuming normal operations
 > [Sat Mar 8 11:57:12 2008] [notice] Accept mutex: sysvsem (Default: 
sysvsem)
 >
 > Permissions
 > drwxrwsr-x root mailman mailman/
 > -rwxrwsr-x root mailman 
1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck*
 >


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From francesco at fampeeters.com  Tue Mar 11 00:10:57 2008
From: francesco at fampeeters.com (Francesco Peeters)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:10:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive without attachments?
Message-ID: <47D5C001.8080800@fampeeters.com>

I just rebuilt one of my lists' archive as ArchRunner was stuck and
didn't archive messages again (apparently since Jan 19th! <G>)
After running arch --wipe, I restarted ArchRunner, which is now working
to catch up... (14000 messages to go!)

The lists allows attachments, but I really do not need those archived...
Is there a way to make the Archiver qrunner archive the emails *without*
the attachments? (It seems to me that that would also speed up the
process, but that is just a gut feeling!)

I tried Googling, but it comes up with a gazillion sites whose archives
have been scanned by Google, so there is virtually no way to sensibly
search for mailman related issues on Google...

Any help will be appreciated!
-- 
Francesco Peeters

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 11 01:32:26 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:32:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive without attachments?
In-Reply-To: <47D5C001.8080800@fampeeters.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080310173226028125542f93@msapiro>

Francesco Peeters wrote:

>I just rebuilt one of my lists' archive as ArchRunner was stuck and
>didn't archive messages again (apparently since Jan 19th! <G>)
>After running arch --wipe, I restarted ArchRunner, which is now working
>to catch up... (14000 messages to go!)


I'm confused. I don't know why you ran bin/arch --wipe, and do you
really have over 14000 new messages since Jan 19th?


>The lists allows attachments, but I really do not need those archived...
>Is there a way to make the Archiver qrunner archive the emails *without*
>the attachments? (It seems to me that that would also speed up the
>process, but that is just a gut feeling!)


No. There is really no way to not archive attachments that are allowed
on the list. If you set scrub_nondigest = Yes, the attachments will be
stored in the archive as the incoming message is processed and only
links will be in the delivered messages and the messages in the
archive queue, but it's too late for that in this case.


>I tried Googling, but it comes up with a gazillion sites whose archives
>have been scanned by Google, so there is virtually no way to sensibly
>search for mailman related issues on Google...


Sure there is. Just put site:mail.python.org and inurl:mailman (or
mailman-users) in addition to your other search criteria. Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Mar 11 02:41:24 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:41:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Announce] Updated message catalogs
 needed for Mailman 2.1.10
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
References: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>
	<Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3fb93a0f72f@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/10/08, liste yoneticisi wrote:

>  (An explanation to all: I just asked if there is anyone who
>  responsible for Turkish translation of Mailman, attended to these lists
>  from Turkiye.)

This is a question that is better asked on the mailman-i18n mailing 
list.  That's where all the Internationalization folks should be 
hanging out.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From francesco at fampeeters.com  Tue Mar 11 08:15:19 2008
From: francesco at fampeeters.com (Francesco Peeters)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:15:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive without attachments?
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080310173226028125542f93@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080310173226028125542f93@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47D63187.8010800@fampeeters.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Francesco Peeters wrote:
>
>   
>> I just rebuilt one of my lists' archive as ArchRunner was stuck and
>> didn't archive messages again (apparently since Jan 19th! <G>)
>> After running arch --wipe, I restarted ArchRunner, which is now working
>> to catch up... (14000 messages to go!)
>>     
>
>
> I'm confused. I don't know why you ran bin/arch --wipe, and do you
> really have over 14000 new messages since Jan 19th?
>   
ArchRunner was stuck and didn't process mail anymore, and apparently has
not been since Jan 19th.
Running arch --wipe and then restarting ArchRunner "unstuck" it, and now
it is catching up... (12600 to go atm)
And yes, really 14k new messages!
(It is a list I run for my wife, and there are 20+ women (and 2 men,
including me, as list admin) chatting there on topics like
machine-embroidery, doll-clothing, etc.! Does that say enough?...)
>   
>> The lists allows attachments, but I really do not need those archived...
>> Is there a way to make the Archiver qrunner archive the emails *without*
>> the attachments? (It seems to me that that would also speed up the
>> process, but that is just a gut feeling!)
>>     
>
>
> No. There is really no way to not archive attachments that are allowed
> on the list. If you set scrub_nondigest = Yes, the attachments will be
> stored in the archive as the incoming message is processed and only
> links will be in the delivered messages and the messages in the
> archive queue, but it's too late for that in this case.
>   
Hmmmm... Maybe I need to brush up my python skills then...  <G>
>   
>> I tried Googling, but it comes up with a gazillion sites whose archives
>> have been scanned by Google, so there is virtually no way to sensibly
>> search for mailman related issues on Google...
>>     
>
>
> Sure there is. Just put site:mail.python.org and inurl:mailman (or
> mailman-users) in addition to your other search criteria. Also see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>.
>   
I didn't think about searching for list content specifically! *smacks
forehead*
Thx for that!
-- 
Francesco Peeters

From iming.chen at spja.org  Tue Mar 11 09:11:26 2008
From: iming.chen at spja.org (I-Ming Chen)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:11:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive without attachments?
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080310173226028125542f93@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080310173226028125542f93@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47D63EAE.2080600@spja.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Francesco Peeters wrote:
>> I just rebuilt one of my lists' archive as ArchRunner was stuck and
>> didn't archive messages again (apparently since Jan 19th! <G>)
>> After running arch --wipe, I restarted ArchRunner, which is now working
>> to catch up... (14000 messages to go!)
> 
> I'm confused. I don't know why you ran bin/arch --wipe, and do you
> really have over 14000 new messages since Jan 19th?

I've had instances where once I rebuilt the archive, the size of the 
downloadable archive doubled (dupe messges in the gzip or txt). The only way to 
rebuild correctly was to do a --wipe. This was also a case where it stopped 
archiving as well.

-- 
I-Ming Chen
Facility Liaison
Convention Operations, Manager
Information Technology, Staff
AX 2008 -- http://www.anime-expo.org/

From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Tue Mar 11 11:08:41 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 04:08:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation - which files linked from http?
Message-ID: <a06230963c3fc09dc2097@[192.168.33.3]>

Hi folks,

Mailman is installed and running, but.... Newbie question:

It isn't clear to me which files in my Mailman directory get 
symlinked from my http directory.

Thanks.
-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From rick at learntime.com  Tue Mar 11 13:39:35 2008
From: rick at learntime.com (Rick Harris)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:39:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing Delivery issues - an update
Message-ID: <003b01c88374$f72d1130$e5873390$@com>

Thanks to all that offered advice regarding my ongoing delivery issues.  You
were all a great help.

 

Unfortunately my hosting company was anything but a help. I'll only give you
their initials (midPhase). They pretty much blamed everyone, AOL, my list
size, the day of the week, etc.  The last straw was their blaming of my
local ISP's spam policy.  If my local ISP was the ONLY recipient with
issues, maybe I could almost believe them.  

 

Brian Carpenter was kind enough to offer to build a test list for me so I
could convince myself where the problem was.  After the last couple of
responses from my PREVIOUS hosting company, I didn't need a test list.  I
decided to move my hosting to Brian's company, www.emwd.com , yesterday
afternoon.  The transition was extremely painless and quick (made so by
being a cPanel user already).  Today, I posted a message to my list and was
immediately rewarded with messages in ALL of my test accounts INCLUDING
Yahoo.  Of course, I understand that Yahoo is "hit or miss" and won't hold
my breath, but hey, this is an encouraging way to start a new relationship.


 

Thanks again to all who offered me help.  A special thanks to Brian and his
team for making my move to a new home an easy and pleasant one.

 

 

Rick Harris



 


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 11 14:39:42 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 06:39:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive without attachments?
In-Reply-To: <47D63EAE.2080600@spja.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031106394200002e9c488a@msapiro>

I-Ming Chen wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Francesco Peeters wrote:
>>> I just rebuilt one of my lists' archive as ArchRunner was stuck and
>>> didn't archive messages again (apparently since Jan 19th! <G>)
>>> After running arch --wipe, I restarted ArchRunner, which is now working
>>> to catch up... (14000 messages to go!)
>> 
>> I'm confused. I don't know why you ran bin/arch --wipe, and do you
>> really have over 14000 new messages since Jan 19th?
>
>I've had instances where once I rebuilt the archive, the size of the 
>downloadable archive doubled (dupe messges in the gzip or txt). The only way to 
>rebuild correctly was to do a --wipe. This was also a case where it stopped 
>archiving as well.


That is correct. You need the --wipe option if you are going to run
bin/arch with the entire list.mbox/list.mbox (default) as input.

However, I was not questioning why Francesco used the --wipe option. I
was questioning why he felt it was necessary to run bin/arch at all as
opposed to just restarting ArchRunner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 11 14:48:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 06:48:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation - which files linked from http?
In-Reply-To: <a06230963c3fc09dc2097@[192.168.33.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803110648520437bcd9f249@msapiro>

billc wrote:
>
>It isn't clear to me which files in my Mailman directory get 
>symlinked from my http directory.


Assuming you are using Apache or some similar web server, the answer is
none. The archives have static HTML pages which may, in the case of a
public archive, by accessed via something like (for Apache)

Alias   /pipermail/     /path/to/mailman/archives/public/

Everything else is served by CGI scripts which are accessed via
wrappers via something like (for Apache)

ScriptAlias /mailman/       /path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From luca.villani at staff.dada.net  Tue Mar 11 14:50:25 2008
From: luca.villani at staff.dada.net (Luca Villani)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:50:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman clustering
Message-ID: <1205243425.6602.20.camel@batucagnaz>

Hi.


First, I'm afraid my English is very poor, sorry... :-|


We're starting to move our internal mailman from a single server to a
multiple servers architecture (starting with two servers).


Digging on the list, we find two approaches to this problem:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-November/054641.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-December/059625.html


As far as we prefer to not patch the code, we will try the first
solution (spanning qfiles slices handling to multiple qrunners, one on
every server), but we find no examples for this configuration.

Cite:

"IOW, machine 1 could handle the odd slices of qfile/in while machine 2
could handle the even slices"


How can we configure our mailman installation in order to do this?




-- 
Luca Villani     -      Dada S.p.A.

Tel: +39 055 20021517   Mobile: +39 335 8753086
ICQ: 76272621           Skype: luca.villani

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 11 15:05:41 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:05:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive without attachments?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008031106394200002e9c488a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803110705410734e7575be7@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>However, I was not questioning why Francesco used the --wipe option. I
>was questioning why he felt it was necessary to run bin/arch at all as
>opposed to just restarting ArchRunner.


Further note. I'm not saying that it might not have been necessary to
rebuild the archive. It may have been if the problem was a corrupt
archive database. I'm just saying that in general in a case like this,
one should look at Mailman's error log for clues as to what the
problem is and not just blindly rebuild the archive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From francesco at fampeeters.com  Tue Mar 11 15:15:45 2008
From: francesco at fampeeters.com (Francesco Peeters)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:15:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive without attachments?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803110705410734e7575be7@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200803110705410734e7575be7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47D69411.6000803@fampeeters.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>   
>> However, I was not questioning why Francesco used the --wipe option. I
>> was questioning why he felt it was necessary to run bin/arch at all as
>> opposed to just restarting ArchRunner.
>>     
>
>
> Further note. I'm not saying that it might not have been necessary to
> rebuild the archive. It may have been if the problem was a corrupt
> archive database. I'm just saying that in general in a case like this,
> one should look at Mailman's error log for clues as to what the
> problem is and not just blindly rebuild the archive.
>
>   
Restarting the ArchRunner did not make a difference, and the logs didn't
give any clues. Having tried several other steps, I finally resorted to
rebuilding the archive. Especially as I had a powerfailure somewhere mid
January, I assumed it was likely the database, despite not seeing
anything in logs.
Rebuilding the archive for that list resolved the stuck status of the
ArchRunner, so I guess my assumption was correct, or at least close
enough...  ;-)

Anyway, it now has 161 message left to archive, so I hope to return to
normal CPU levels soon...  ;-)

-- 
Francesco Peeters

From alt.listkeeper at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 15:18:51 2008
From: alt.listkeeper at gmail.com (Bonnie M)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:18:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Speaking of Archives
Message-ID: <30c2be260803110718w6eea60fasadc4a134f60b8280@mail.gmail.com>

Is there any way you can delete certain archived messages?

A list I'm involved with I'd like to archive some messages, but not the
daily announcement messages that are posted to the list.

Bonnie

From munichlinux at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 15:21:46 2008
From: munichlinux at gmail.com (Prashanth)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:51:46 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topic the receiver read
Message-ID: <1f869bdd0803110721s273e16f1h38059f7cfb53a8d2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

                  When i enable the topic in mailman and send single
mail with multiple messages with keywords will it scan around the
whole message and send mails,

E.g:

Mail Data:

Keyward : message1
message 1 data
.
.
.
.
.

Keyward: message2
message 2 data
.
.
.
.

and now will mailman deliver mail to people who have subscribed to
keyword: message1 and message 2 respectively ?

-- 
regards,

Prashanth

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 11 15:44:15 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:44:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman clustering
In-Reply-To: <1205243425.6602.20.camel@batucagnaz>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031107441509066e8df1f9@msapiro>

Luca Villani wrote:
>
>We're starting to move our internal mailman from a single server to a
>multiple servers architecture (starting with two servers).
>
>
>Digging on the list, we find two approaches to this problem:
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-November/054641.html
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-December/059625.html
>
>
>As far as we prefer to not patch the code, we will try the first
>solution (spanning qfiles slices handling to multiple qrunners, one on
>every server), but we find no examples for this configuration.
>
>Cite:
>
>"IOW, machine 1 could handle the odd slices of qfile/in while machine 2
>could handle the even slices"
>
>
>How can we configure our mailman installation in order to do this?

This still requires some patching or other machinations. First, this
approach assumes that all the mutable Mailman directories are shared
(NFS or ??) across machines.

Defaults.py contains the following:

QRUNNERS = [
    ('ArchRunner',     1), # messages for the archiver
    ('BounceRunner',   1), # for processing the qfile/bounces directory
    ('CommandRunner',  1), # commands and bounces from the outside world
    ('IncomingRunner', 1), # posts from the outside world
    ('NewsRunner',     1), # outgoing messages to the nntpd
    ('OutgoingRunner', 1), # outgoing messages to the smtpd
    ('VirginRunner',   1), # internally crafted (virgin birth) messages
    ('RetryRunner',    1), # retry temporarily failed deliveries
    ]

The '1' in each case is the number of slices/qrunners per queue. You
can copy that to mm_cfg.py and change '1' to '2' so that each queue
will have two slices - 0:2 and 1:2.

But now, mailmanctl on each machine will start runners to process both
slices which is not what you want. You want one machine to have only
the runners processing the 0:2 slices and the other machine to have
only the runners processing the 1:2 slices. This would require
starting the qrunners manually on each machine which is not a good
idea or patching mailmanctl along the lines of changing

def start_all_runners():
    kids = {}
    for qrname, count in mm_cfg.QRUNNERS:
        for slice in range(count):
            # queue runner name, slice, numslices, restart count
            info = (qrname, slice, count, 0)
            pid = start_runner(qrname, slice, count)
            kids[pid] = info
    return kids

to

def start_all_runners():
    kids = {}
    for qrname, count, machine, nummachines in mm_cfg.QRUNNERS:
        for slice in range(machine, count, nummachines):
            # queue runner name, slice, numslices, restart count
            info = (qrname, slice, count, 0)
            pid = start_runner(qrname, slice, count)
            kids[pid] = info
    return kids

where machine and nummachines are the number of this machine (0 or 1 in
this case) and nummachines is the total number of machines (2 in this
case). These would be added to the QRUNNER table in mm_cfg.py as
follows:

The first machine would have

QRUNNERS = [
    ('ArchRunner',     2,0,2), # messages for the archiver
    ('BounceRunner',   2,0,2), # for processing the qfile/bounces
directory
    ('CommandRunner',  2,0,2), # commands and bounces from the outside
world
    ('IncomingRunner', 2,0,2), # posts from the outside world
    ('NewsRunner',     2,0,2), # outgoing messages to the nntpd
    ('OutgoingRunner', 2,0,2), # outgoing messages to the smtpd
    ('VirginRunner',   2,0,2), # internally crafted (virgin birth)
messages
    ('RetryRunner',    2,0,2), # retry temporarily failed deliveries
    ]

and the second would be as above except with 2,1,2 instead of 2,0,2.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 11 15:53:53 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:53:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive without attachments?
In-Reply-To: <47D69411.6000803@fampeeters.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031107535308758f997480@msapiro>



Francesco Peeters wrote:

>Restarting the ArchRunner did not make a difference, and the logs didn't
>give any clues. Having tried several other steps, I finally resorted to
>rebuilding the archive. Especially as I had a powerfailure somewhere mid
>January, I assumed it was likely the database, despite not seeing
>anything in logs.
>Rebuilding the archive for that list resolved the stuck status of the
>ArchRunner, so I guess my assumption was correct, or at least close
>enough...  ;-)


It seems like you did all the right things. I'm sorry I doubted you,
but perhaps this thread will prove useful to others.


>Anyway, it now has 161 message left to archive, so I hope to return to
>normal CPU levels soon...  ;-)


Lets hope by the time you get this, things are back to normal.

As another side note, it is a good idea to run some kind of daily
report via cron to detect problems like this before they go to far. At
a minimum, a cron that just does 'ls -lr /path/to/qfiles' will let you
know if any queues are backing up. For a more elaborate report, see
Brad Knowles' mmdsr script at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ki at knifecenter.com  Tue Mar 11 17:08:56 2008
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:08:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Export List
Message-ID: <C3FC18C8.2C608%ki@knifecenter.com>

I just wanted to confirm this command would output, to a text file,
export_filename, the email addresses that are current subscribers to list
listname ... I don't want to export addresses that are unsubscribed, hidden,
nomail, etc.

./list_members -o export_filename -r listname



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 11 16:09:42 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:09:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Speaking of Archives
In-Reply-To: <30c2be260803110718w6eea60fasadc4a134f60b8280@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803110809420453070dfb2f@msapiro>

Bonnie M wrote:

>Is there any way you can delete certain archived messages?
>
>A list I'm involved with I'd like to archive some messages, but not the
>daily announcement messages that are posted to the list.


Deleting a message from the archive after the fact is a pain. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>.

However, if you put either of the headers

X-No-Archive:

or

X-Archive: No

in a message to the list, it won't be archived in the first place.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 11 16:21:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:21:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Export List
In-Reply-To: <C3FC18C8.2C608%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803110821350312070dfa9b@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:

>I just wanted to confirm this command would output, to a text file,
>export_filename, the email addresses that are current subscribers to list
>listname ... I don't want to export addresses that are unsubscribed, hidden,
>nomail, etc.
>
>./list_members -o export_filename -r listname


That will list only regular as opposed to digest members, but it will
list 'hidden' and nomail members. If you omit the -r, it will list all
members. if you add '-n enabled' it will not list anyone with delivery
disabled. There is no way to tell list_members to not list 'hidden'
members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 11 16:32:57 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:32:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topic the receiver read
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0803110721s273e16f1h38059f7cfb53a8d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803110832570656070dfc09@msapiro>

Prashanth wrote:
>
>                  When i enable the topic in mailman and send single
>mail with multiple messages with keywords will it scan around the
>whole message and send mails,
>
>E.g:
>
>Mail Data:
>
>Keyward : message1
>message 1 data
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>
>Keyward: message2
>message 2 data
>.
>.
>.
>.
>
>and now will mailman deliver mail to people who have subscribed to
>keyword: message1 and message 2 respectively ?


No. The first non-header-like line in the message body stops the scan.
You would have to put

Keywords: message1, message2

as the first body line. Also, it must be Keywords:, not Keyword:

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fabriciopoliveira at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 11 17:43:50 2008
From: fabriciopoliveira at hotmail.com (Fabricio Oliveira)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:43:50 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
Message-ID: <BLU107-W484FC3C8A8914399410C11A70F0@phx.gbl>


Hi Mark,I see your considerations about permissions, but I don't know are SELinux. What is this? See attachment for more information. Thanks for your help!! Regards,Fabricio> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:16:35 -0700> From: mark at msapiro.net> To: fabriciopoliveira at hotmail.com> CC: mailman-users at python.org> Subject: Re: RE: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9> > Fabricio Oliveira wrote:> > Hi Mark,> > > > See attachment file with the log.> > > Thank you for reposting the logs as an attachment. That is much better.> > Here is your log data with my comments interspersed.> > > Log - /usr/local/mailman/logs/error> >> > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): Traceback (most recent call last):> > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File > '/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner', line 278, in ?> > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): main()> > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File > '/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner', line 238, in main> > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): qrunner.run()> > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File > '/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py', line 71, in run> > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): filecnt = self._oneloop()> > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File > '/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py', line 100, in _oneloop> > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): msg, msgdata = > self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)> > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): File > '/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py', line 150, in dequeue> > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): fp = open(filename)> > Mar 08 10:48:37 2008 qrunner(1656): IOError : [Errno 13] Permission > denied: > '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/in/1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck'> > > This says that IncomingRunner can't read the referenced queue entry > file. Based on the permissions you show below, this would seem > impossible unless IncomingRunner was not running in the mailman group or > there is some SELinux or other security policy preventing it. This can > be caused by the runner being manually started or mailmanctl being run > by a non-root user.> > > > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file > /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck insecure string pickle> > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file > /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck.last invalid load key, '?'.> > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file > /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db [Errno 2] No such file or > directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db'> > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file > /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last[Errno 2] No such > file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'> > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) All cartaoberro fallbacks were corrupt, > giving up> > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file > /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pckinsecure string pickle> > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file > /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck.lastinvalid load key, '?'.> > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file > /usr/local/mailman/lists/c artaoberro/config.db[Errno 2] No such file or > directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db'> > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) couldn't load config file > /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last[Errno 2] No such > file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'> > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 (1883) All cartaoberro fallbacks were corrupt, > giving up> > > This and the error below are the same error from the admin web > interface. It appears that both the config.pck and config.pck.last for > the cartaoberro list are corrupt (the config.db* files normally don't > exist in a mailman 2.1.x installation).> > > > Mar 08 11:04:45 2008 admin(1883): > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@> > admin(1883): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]> > admin(1883): [----- Traceback ------]> > admin(1883): Traceback (most recent call last):> > admin(1883): File '/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver', line 101, in > run_main> > admin(1883): main()> > admin(1883): File '/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py', line 75, > in main> > admin(1883): admin_overview(_('No such list <em>%(safelistname)s</em>'))> > admin(1883): File '/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py', line > 233, in admi n_overview> > admin(1883): mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)> > admin(1883): File '/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py', line 130, > in __ini t__> > admin(1883): self.Load()admin(1883): File > '/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py', line 644, in Load> > admin(1883): raise Errors.MMCorruptListDatabaseError, e> > admin(1883): MMCorruptListDatabaseError: [Errno 2] No such file or > directory: '/ usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.db.last'> > admin(1883): [----- Python Information -----]> > admin(1883): sys.version = 2.4.3 (#1, Jul 26 2006, 20:13:39)[GCC 3.4.6]> > admin(1883): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python> > admin(1883): sys.prefix = /usr> > admin(1883): sys.exec_prefix = /usr> > admin(1883): sys.path = /usr> > admin(1883): sys.platform = linux2> > admin(1883): [----- Environment Variables -----]> > admin(1883): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.37 (Unix)> > admin(1883): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admin> > admin(1883): SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.37 Server at > serverlinux.r evistaoberro.com.br Port 80</ADDRESS>> > admin(1883):> > admin(1883): REQUEST_METHOD: GET> > admin(1883): PATH_INFO: /cartaoberro/logoutadmin(1883): > SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1> > admin(1883): QUERY_STRING:> > admin(1883): HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; > Windows NT 5 .1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)> > admin(1883): HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive> > admin(1883): SERVER_NAME: serverlinux.revistaoberro.com.br> > admin(1883): REMOTE_ADDR: 192.168.0.2> > admin(1883): PATH_TRANSLATED: /var/www/htdocs/cartaoberro/logout> > admin(1883): SERVER_PORT: 80> > admin(1883): SERVER_ADDR: 200.171.57.41> > admin(1883): DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/htdocs> > admin(1883): PYTHONPATH: /usr/local/mailman> > admin(1883): SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin//admin> > admin(1883): SERVER_ADMIN: root at tree.slackware.lan> > admin(1883): HTTP_HOST: serverlinux.revistaoberro.com.br> > admin(1883): REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admin/cartaoberro/logout> > admin(1883): HTTP_ACCEPT: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, > image/pjpeg , application/x-shockwave-flash application/vnd.ms-excel, > application/vnd.ms-po> >> > I deleted the file > '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/in/1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck' > and reboot the server. See log after reboot:> >> > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): Traceback (most recent call last):> > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): File > '/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl', line 548, in ?> > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): main()> > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): File > '/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl', line 390, in main> > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): lock = acquire_lock(force)> > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): File > '/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl', line 214, in acquire_lock> > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): lock = acquire_lock_1(force)> > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): File > '/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl', line 208, in acquire_lock_1> > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): > os.unlink(os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, tempfile))> > Mar 08 12:03:32 2008 mailmanctl(1114): OSError : [Errno 2] No such > file or directory: > '/usr/local/mailman/locks/master-qrunner.serverlinux.1148'> >> > > This indicates that possibly mailmanctl is being started twice, or there > is some other issue with lock files. See > <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp> > for information about making sure Mailman is completely shut down, then > remove all the files from Mailman's locks/ directory and as root, run > 'bin/mailmanctl start' once only.> > > > Apache error_log> > GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1> > REMOTE_PORT: 4322> > HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: pt-br> > HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate> > UNIQUE_ID: R9KXGsirOSkAAAQNA44> > [Sat Mar 8 11:19:34 2008] [error] [client 192.168.0.2] attempt to > invoke directory as script: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin> > [Sat Mar 8 11:22:24 2008] [error] [client 192.168.0.2] attempt to > invoke directory as script: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin> > > These seem to be the result of an Apache misconfiguration. They occur 15 > and 18 minutes respectively after the admin error above. Did you perhaps > change some Apache ScriptAlias directive in response to the admin error > above?> > > > [Sat Mar 8 11:55:49 2008] [notice] caught SIGTERM, shutting down> > [Sat Mar 8 11:57:12 2008] [notice] Apache/1.3.37 (Unix) configured -- > resuming normal operations> > [Sat Mar 8 11:57:12 2008] [notice] Accept mutex: sysvsem (Default: > sysvsem)> >> > Permissions> > drwxrwsr-x root mailman mailman/> > -rwxrwsr-x root mailman > 1204984114.6525619+5fb960a623c129aa4c6faf55d72e84188d8bafc6.pck*> >> > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan> 
_________________________________________________________________
Veja mapas e encontre as melhores rotas para fugir do tr?nsito com o Live Search Maps!
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From luca.villani at staff.dada.net  Tue Mar 11 18:22:06 2008
From: luca.villani at staff.dada.net (Luca Villani)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:22:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman clustering
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008031107441509066e8df1f9@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008031107441509066e8df1f9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1205256126.8236.15.camel@batucagnaz>

On mar, 2008-03-11 at 15:44 +0100, Mark Sapiro wrote:


> This still requires some patching or other machinations. First, this
> approach assumes that all the mutable Mailman directories are shared
> (NFS or ??) across machines.

Yes, NFS, exported by a Netapp filer.
We was planning to export the entire

	/usr/local/mailman

but one of your hints prevent us to do this.
What exactly are the mutable directories?



> The '1' in each case is the number of slices/qrunners per queue. You
> can copy that to mm_cfg.py and change '1' to '2' so that each queue
> will have two slices - 0:2 and 1:2.

Ok.


> You want one machine to have only
> the runners processing the 0:2 slices and the other machine to have
> only the runners processing the 1:2 slices. This would require
> starting the qrunners manually on each machine which is not a good
> idea or patching mailmanctl along the lines of changing

Ok.



> case). These would be added to the QRUNNER table in mm_cfg.py as
> follows:
> 
> The first machine would have
> 
> QRUNNERS = [
>     ('ArchRunner',     2,0,2), # messages for the archiver
>     ('BounceRunner',   2,0,2), # for processing the qfile/bounces
> directory
>     ('CommandRunner',  2,0,2), # commands and bounces from the outside
> world
>     ('IncomingRunner', 2,0,2), # posts from the outside world
>     ('NewsRunner',     2,0,2), # outgoing messages to the nntpd
>     ('OutgoingRunner', 2,0,2), # outgoing messages to the smtpd
>     ('VirginRunner',   2,0,2), # internally crafted (virgin birth)
> messages
>     ('RetryRunner',    2,0,2), # retry temporarily failed deliveries
>     ]
> 
> and the second would be as above except with 2,1,2 instead of 2,0,2.

As far as mm_cfg.py must be different on each server, it prevent to
export the entire /usr/local/mailman.



Ok, thank tou very much for the hints.
AFAIK with this configuration, we can start the webinterface on each
server, right?



-- 
Luca Villani     -      Dada S.p.A.

Tel: +39 055 20021517   Mobile: +39 335 8753086
ICQ: 76272621           Skype: luca.villani

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 11 18:50:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:50:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman clustering
In-Reply-To: <1205256126.8236.15.camel@batucagnaz>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803111050500484a7202116@msapiro>

Luca Villani wrote:

>On mar, 2008-03-11 at 15:44 +0100, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>
>> This still requires some patching or other machinations. First, this
>> approach assumes that all the mutable Mailman directories are shared
>> (NFS or ??) across machines.
>
>Yes, NFS, exported by a Netapp filer.
>We was planning to export the entire
>
>	/usr/local/mailman
>
>but one of your hints prevent us to do this.
>What exactly are the mutable directories?


The mutable (changeable) directories are those in the VAR_PREFIX (set
by the configure --with-var-prefix= option) directory as opposed to
the PREFIX and EXEC_PREFIX directories. These directories are
archives/, lists/, logs/, locks/, data/ and spam/. The ones that must
be shared are archives/, lists/, locks/, and data/. The spam/
directory is only used when a message is 'preserved for the admin' in
the admindb interface. That and the logs/ are probably best shared.
Other directories can be shared or not except if the separate
instances have separate mm_cfg.py files, then the Mailman/ directory
needs to be unique per machine.


>As far as mm_cfg.py must be different on each server, it prevent to
>export the entire /usr/local/mailman.


Correct.


>Ok, thank tou very much for the hints.
>AFAIK with this configuration, we can start the webinterface on each
>server, right?


Correct again.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 11 19:12:53 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:12:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <BLU107-W484FC3C8A8914399410C11A70F0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU107-W484FC3C8A8914399410C11A70F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47D6CBA5.2050906@msapiro.net>

Fabricio Oliveira wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I see your considerations about permissions, but I don't know are SELinux. What is this?


SELinux is a security policy manager that can prevent file access based 
on security policies even though the access would be allowed by file 
permissions.


> I stoped the python's services and I restarted the service with the command below:
> 
> root at serverlinux:/usr/local/mailman/bin# ./mailmanctl stop
> Shutting down Mailman's master qrunner
> 
> root at serverlinux:/usr/local/mailman/bin# ps -fAww |grep python
> 
> root at serverlinux:/usr/local/mailman/bin# ./mailmanctl start
> Starting Mailman's master qrunner.
> 
> After restarted the service, the following pid appear:
> 
> root at serverlinux:/usr/local/mailman/bin# ps -fAww |grep python
> mailman  27184     1  0 12:54 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python ./mailmanctl start
> mailman  27185 27184  4 12:54 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman  27186 27184 56 12:54 ?        00:00:02 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman  27187 27184  4 12:54 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman  27188 27184  4 12:54 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman  27189 27184  4 12:54 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman  27190 27184  4 12:54 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman  27191 27184  5 12:54 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman  27192 27184  5 12:54 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s


OK, so now Mailman started properly, and the lock file and perhaps qfile 
problems may be solved.


> The page continue with the error:
> 
> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
> 
> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 


This error had nothing to do with the other problems. This error is 
apparently due to the configuration files for the cartaoberro list being 
corrupt. The error log entries you posted previously indicate that the 
data from the /usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck and 
/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck.last files couldn't be 
loaded. It appears that these files are corrupt.

If you have a backup, I suggest you try restoring these files from the 
backup. Without that, you can try to dump the files with Mailman's 
bin/dumpdb, but that will probably fail in the same way. If so, the best 
you may be able to do is use the strings command to try to extract as 
much information as possible from these files and use it to recreate the 
list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Mar 12 03:57:18 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:57:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman clustering
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803111050500484a7202116@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200803111050500484a7202116@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3fcf6a32ca5@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/11/08, Mark Sapiro quoted Luca Villani:

>>  As far as mm_cfg.py must be different on each server, it prevent to
>>  export the entire /usr/local/mailman.
>
>  Correct.

Couldn't you put both configuration files in the same directory, with 
slightly different file names, and then specify on the startup 
command-line which particular configuration file to use for which 
instance of Mailman?

Okay, so you'd have to have /etc/init.d/whatever startup scripts that 
would be slightly different on the two machines, but at least the 
/usr/local/mailman stuff should be able to be fully shared via NFS.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 12 05:41:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:41:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman clustering
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c3fcf6a32ca5@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031121413908524f83e93b@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 3/11/08, Mark Sapiro quoted Luca Villani:
>
>>>  As far as mm_cfg.py must be different on each server, it prevent to
>>>  export the entire /usr/local/mailman.
>>
>>  Correct.
>
>Couldn't you put both configuration files in the same directory, with 
>slightly different file names, and then specify on the startup 
>command-line which particular configuration file to use for which 
>instance of Mailman?


It's coming im Mailman 3.0, but in 2.x, you have "from Mailman import
mm_cfg" in virtually every module.

You would need to do something along the lines of what's being done in
3.0, but it's a big change.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Wed Mar 12 06:57:07 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:57:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation - which files linked from http?
Message-ID: <a06230976c3fd212ae301@[192.168.33.3]>

At 6:48 AM -0700 3/11/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>billc wrote:
>>
>>It isn't clear to me which files in my Mailman directory get
>>symlinked from my http directory.
>
>
>Assuming you are using Apache or some similar web server, the answer is
>none. The archives have static HTML pages which may, in the case of a
>public archive, by accessed via something like (for Apache)
>
>Alias   /pipermail/     /path/to/mailman/archives/public/
>
>Everything else is served by CGI scripts which are accessed via
>wrappers via something like (for Apache)
>
>ScriptAlias /mailman/       /path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/
>

Yes, apache2 with Postfix.

Ok, that makes sense now.  Apache and Postfix have been restarted, 
but unfortunately I'm not connecting.

Mailman list has been created.
Testlist and testlist2 have been created.
All three are in archives/private/
The "Your new mailing list: testlist2" email was sent and received.

I'm getting /mailman/admin/testlist2 was not found on this server, 
and similar for all other URLs I've attempted.

I'm running virtual domains, in case that makes a difference.

Obviously I'm missing something somewhere.  Any clues gladly welcomed.


-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From munichlinux at gmail.com  Wed Mar 12 07:05:38 2008
From: munichlinux at gmail.com (Prashanth)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:35:38 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman topic duplication
Message-ID: <1f869bdd0803112305m5c85a649v2c787ba21bc09ec4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

              When i add same topic repeatedly it keeps adding (i
could see topic duplications), Is this a bug?


-- 
regards,

Prashanth

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 12 15:34:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:34:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman topic duplication
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0803112305m5c85a649v2c787ba21bc09ec4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031207343402652e9c498b@msapiro>

Prashanth wrote:
>
>              When i add same topic repeatedly it keeps adding (i
>could see topic duplications), Is this a bug?


If I type the same thing twice
If I type the same thing twice
and my MUA allows it, is it a bug?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 12 15:55:53 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:55:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation - which files linked from http?
In-Reply-To: <a06230976c3fd212ae301@[192.168.33.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803120755530078e1835ae3@msapiro>

billc wrote:
>
>Yes, apache2 with Postfix.
>
>Ok, that makes sense now.  Apache and Postfix have been restarted, 
>but unfortunately I'm not connecting.
>
>Mailman list has been created.
>Testlist and testlist2 have been created.
>All three are in archives/private/
>The "Your new mailing list: testlist2" email was sent and received.
>
>I'm getting /mailman/admin/testlist2 was not found on this server, 
>and similar for all other URLs I've attempted.
>
>I'm running virtual domains, in case that makes a difference.


Do you have the proper

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /correct/path/

in your httpd.conf where it will apply to this host?

And what's in your Apache error_log?


See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From glhudson at gmail.com  Wed Mar 12 18:41:04 2008
From: glhudson at gmail.com (Garrett L. Hudson )
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:41:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments that will not open.
Message-ID: <001101c88468$40cdbf30$0301a8c0@GAMA2005>

I am receiving "Uncaught bounce notifications" with an attachment that can
not be opened.  I am assuming this is the original unrecognized bounce but I
can not verify.  Any chance anyone has seen this before?

 

Thanks,

Gary


From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Wed Mar 12 18:35:04 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:35:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation - which files linked from http?
Message-ID: <a06230983c3fdc4c03a5a@[192.168.33.3]>

At 7:55 AM -0700 3/12/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>billc wrote:
>>
>>Yes, apache2 with Postfix.
>>
>>Ok, that makes sense now.  Apache and Postfix have been restarted,
>>but unfortunately I'm not connecting.
>>
>>Mailman list has been created.
>>Testlist and testlist2 have been created.
>>All three are in archives/private/
>>The "Your new mailing list: testlist2" email was sent and received.
>>
>>I'm getting /mailman/admin/testlist2 was not found on this server,
>>and similar for all other URLs I've attempted.
>>
>>I'm running virtual domains, in case that makes a difference.
>
>
>Do you have the proper
>
>ScriptAlias /mailman/ /correct/path/
>
>in your httpd.conf where it will apply to this host?
>
>And what's in your Apache error_log?
>
>See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html>.
>


Well, that's progress.  I found that I had a typo in the script alias 
path.  I've got all the rest of the stuff from that section in place.

Now I'm seeing:

Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the CGI
wrapper script to be executed as group "www", but
the system's web server executed the CGI script as
group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the web server to run the
script as group "www", or re-run configure,
providing the command line option `--with-cgi-gid=nogroup'

The only thing I see in the apache config regarding group is

<IfModule !mpm_winnt.c>
<IfModule !mpm_netware.c>
	User nobody
	Group #-1
</IfModule>
</IfModule>

I'm not running winnt.c or netware.c, so I assume that means I'm 
defaulting to User nobody and Group #-1.

Would it be a better option to re-run config with the nogroup option, 
or put something in the apache config (and if the latter, what should 
it be?)

Thanks for the help.


-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From malamute at users.easynews.com  Wed Mar 12 21:12:14 2008
From: malamute at users.easynews.com (David Symes)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:12:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20080312131214.A0BC97B5@resin17.mta.everyone.net>

hello there.I would like to know where mailman installs its files etc.i do have shell access to my hosting folders.i do know from past experience that mailman is still functional after it is uninstalled is i see the message "there are no lists here" or something like it

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Mar 12 21:27:30 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:27:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20080312131214.A0BC97B5@resin17.mta.everyone.net>
References: <20080312131214.A0BC97B5@resin17.mta.everyone.net>
Message-ID: <34787.63.80.255.3.1205353650.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>


On Wed, March 12, 2008 13:12, David Symes wrote:
> hello there.I would like to know where mailman installs its files etc.i do
> have shell access to my hosting folders.i do know from past experience
> that mailman is still functional after it is uninstalled is i see the
> message "there are no lists here" or something like it
>

That depends on how you installed it. If you did it from source and did
not change the location, it will be in /usr/local/mailman

If you installed from somebody else's package, it is probably somewhere
else to conform with the distribution's notion of a "proper" file
heirarchy. Red Hat moves things around and if you are using Plesk or
Cpanel, they move things too (and support for them is out of the scope of
this list as they haven't shared their changes back to the mailman
project).


-- 
Dragon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 13 01:29:59 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:29:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments that will not open.
In-Reply-To: <001101c88468$40cdbf30$0301a8c0@GAMA2005>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803121729590390ad7abae1@msapiro>

Garrett L. Hudson wrote:

>I am receiving "Uncaught bounce notifications" with an attachment that can
>not be opened.  I am assuming this is the original unrecognized bounce but I
>can not verify.  Any chance anyone has seen this before?


Yes. The actual message which cannot be parsed as a bounce notice is
attached as a Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME part. Apparently your
MUA (Mail User Agent, mail client) does not understand this content
type.

You need to use a different MUA to read this mail. Any MUA that does
recognize 'attachments', but doesn't recognize a message/rfc822 part
as a message that it can display is pretty deficient.

You might try just saving the attachment to a file and then opening it
with a text editor.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 13 01:35:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:35:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation - which files linked from http?
In-Reply-To: <a06230983c3fdc4c03a5a@[192.168.33.3]>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031217354807966346b38c@msapiro>

billc wrote:
>
>Now I'm seeing:
>
>Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the CGI
>wrapper script to be executed as group "www", but
>the system's web server executed the CGI script as
>group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the web server to run the
>script as group "www", or re-run configure,
>providing the command line option `--with-cgi-gid=nogroup'
>
>The only thing I see in the apache config regarding group is
>
><IfModule !mpm_winnt.c>
><IfModule !mpm_netware.c>
>	User nobody
>	Group #-1
></IfModule>
></IfModule>
>
>I'm not running winnt.c or netware.c, so I assume that means I'm 
>defaulting to User nobody and Group #-1.
>
>Would it be a better option to re-run config with the nogroup option, 
>or put something in the apache config (and if the latter, what should 
>it be?)


Either change 'Group #-1' above to 'Group www' or rerun configure (and
make install) with the option --with-cgi-gid=nogroup. Your choice.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Thu Mar 13 05:38:04 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 23:38:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation - which files linked from http?
In-Reply-To: <20080312183715.3A4C77AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <20080312183715.3A4C77AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <a06230990c3fe5ffa9c2f@[192.168.33.3]>

At 10:37 AM -0800 3/12/08, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
>In a flurry of recycled electrons, billc wrote:
>>  Now I'm seeing:
>>
>>  Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the CGI
>[...]
>
>That would be a FAQ (which means you're almost there)-
>
>>  Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>  > Searchable Archives: 
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>

Great, thanks.  That end of things is working now.  On to fun with Postfix...

-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From j.stuyts at zybber.nl  Thu Mar 13 14:41:20 2008
From: j.stuyts at zybber.nl (Johan Stuyts)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:41:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Separated structure and text templates
Message-ID: <op.t7yiy6xad8okpy@audioslave>

Hi,

Like many others I wanted to customize the Mailman pages to match the look  
and feel of my site. Unfortunately each language-specific template has a  
copy of the HTML structure. Because this is difficult to work with I  
decided to separate the structure from the language-specifc texts. I now  
have a simple project that allows me to build the language-specific  
templates from language-independent master templates and language files. I  
thought this might be of use to other people, so you can download the  
project here. You will need Java and Ant to use it:
http://resources.zybber.nl/mmtemplategen.zip

The templates in the project are based on the templates included in  
Mailman 2.1.9-7 of Debian Etch. The texts in the language files are not  
exact copies of the original templates; I have changed a few characters  
here and there. The project should get you started quickly with  
customization for your site.

After building the templates with 'ant generate', I simply copy them over  
the existing ones.

Please note that this project will NOT allow you to fully customize the  
look and feel of Mailman. It only allows you to separate the HTML from the  
language-specific texts for the user-customizable HTML templates delivered  
with Mailman. If you want to make a structural change you only have to do  
it once instead of for each language when you use this project.

Here are some example pages showing the result of my customization:
https://dev.zybber.nl/mailman/listinfo/zybber-user
https://dev.zybber.nl/mailman/private/zybber-user/

--
Kind regards,

Johan Stuyts
Senior software engineer
Zybber (Dutch COC number: 37137349)

From tom.chance at bioregional.com  Thu Mar 13 15:30:19 2008
From: tom.chance at bioregional.com (Tom Chance)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:30:19 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription confirmation email subject line
Message-ID: <B3F7B7D7EE2B95458161A27945108CF59BAAD2@biomail.bioreg.local>

Hello,
 
The default confirmation emails are quite techy, and the subject line is
horrible. I've found the template to customise the text, but not any way
to change the subject like from something like "confirm
838d64bb398f6ff35f179ff4ab49cbce7fba6daf" to "Confirm your subscription
to $list".

Is this possible?
 
Kind regards,
Tom Chance

-- 
BioRegional Development Group, BedZED Centre, 24 Helios Road,
Wallington, SM6 7BZ, UK 
direct. 020 8404 4884 
t. 020 8404 4880 
w. www.bioregional.com <http://www.bioregional.com/>  
Registered charity no. 1041486. A company limited by guarantee.
Registered in England and Wales no. 2973226 


From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu  Thu Mar 13 20:13:24 2008
From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Christopher Waltham)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:13:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating list passwords when upgrading from 2.0.x
	to 2.1.x?
Message-ID: <1AF9A11B7A6EDC42A4DEAA53C1E8AA01016D305B@BOWD-MSG-01.bowdoincollege.edu>

I just migrated a Mailman installation (~800 lists, ~5000 users) from 2.1.5 on SPARC Solaris to 2.1.9 on Linux x86. In the process, it looks like existing list passwords have become corrupted.
 
Is there an easy way to migrate those passwords across? I can't find anything in the FAQs, and really really don't want to have to give 800 list admins new passwords. :-(
 
Thanks,
 
Chris

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 13 21:18:20 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:18:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating list passwords when upgrading from
	2.0.xto 2.1.x?
In-Reply-To: <1AF9A11B7A6EDC42A4DEAA53C1E8AA01016D305B@BOWD-MSG-01.bowdoincollege.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020080313131820060940966695@msapiro>

Christopher Waltham wrote:

>I just migrated a Mailman installation (~800 lists, ~5000 users) from 2.1.5 on SPARC Solaris to 2.1.9 on Linux x86. In the process, it looks like existing list passwords have become corrupted.
>
>Is there an easy way to migrate those passwords across? I can't find anything in the FAQs, and really really don't want to have to give 800 list admins new passwords. :-(


I'm confused. Your subject says 2.0.x to 2.1.x, but above you say 2.1.5
to 2.1.9.

There should be no issue whatsoever with passwords in a 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
migration.

With a 2.0.x to 2.1.x migration, list admin and moderator passwords
will be lost. This is because the encryption algorithm changed, and
there is no way to decrypt the 2.0.x password and re-encrypt it for
2.1.x.

In Mailman 2.1, there is a bin/change_pw script which can be used to
generate new list passwords and mail them to the list owners - the
list owners will have to assign new moderator passwords if any.

The reason for this change is given in the following two paragraphs
from bin/change_pw --help.

Prior to Mailman 2.1, list passwords were kept in crypt'd format --
usually.  Some Python installations didn't have the crypt module
available, so they'd fall back to md5.  Then suddenly the Python
installation might grow a crypt module and all list passwords would be
broken.

In Mailman 2.1, all list and site passwords are stored in SHA1 hexdigest
form.  This breaks list passwords for all existing pre-Mailman 2.1
lists, and since those passwords aren't stored anywhere in plain text,
they cannot be retrieved and updated.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu  Thu Mar 13 21:51:50 2008
From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Christopher Waltham)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:51:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating list passwords when upgrading from
	2.0.xto 2.1.x?
References: <PC176020080313131820060940966695@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1AF9A11B7A6EDC42A4DEAA53C1E8AA01016D306B@BOWD-MSG-01.bowdoincollege.edu>

>>I just migrated a Mailman installation (~800 lists, ~5000 users) from 2.1.5 on SPARC Solaris to 2.1.9 on Linux x86. In the process, it looks like existing list passwords have become corrupted.

>>Is there an easy way to migrate those passwords across? I can't find anything in the FAQs, and really really don't want to have to give 800 list admins new passwords. :-(

>I'm confused. Your subject says 2.0.x to 2.1.x, but above you say 2.1.5
to 2.1.9.

Sorry Mark, you're right; this is 2.0.5 to 2.1.9. Apologies for the format of this email, too; Exchange webmail is awful.

>With a 2.0.x to 2.1.x migration, list admin and moderator passwords
will be lost. This is because the encryption algorithm changed, and
there is no way to decrypt the 2.0.x password and re-encrypt it for
2.1.x.

Okay, that makes sense.

>In Mailman 2.1, there is a bin/change_pw script which can be used to
generate new list passwords and mail them to the list owners - the
list owners will have to assign new moderator passwords if any.

Thanks for the info! I might add this to the 2.0.x/2.1.y article in the FAQ so that other users are aware of this.


Chris


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 13 22:33:25 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:33:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating list passwords when upgrading from
	2.0.xto 2.1.x?
In-Reply-To: <1AF9A11B7A6EDC42A4DEAA53C1E8AA01016D306B@BOWD-MSG-01.bowdoincollege.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803131433250562cd923a0b@msapiro>

Christopher Waltham quoted me and wrote:
>
>>In Mailman 2.1, there is a bin/change_pw script which can be used to
>generate new list passwords and mail them to the list owners - the
>list owners will have to assign new moderator passwords if any.
>
>Thanks for the info! I might add this to the 2.0.x/2.1.y article in the
>FAQ so that other users are aware of this.


Good idea. I actually thought it was in the UPGRADING document, but I
see it is not. I'll fix that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Fri Mar 14 01:22:40 2008
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:22:40 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google gmail problem
Message-ID: <200803140022.m2E0MeLo022964@julie.lostwells.net>

I'm posting this to the mailman-users list in hopes that I can get
some input that will either explain or resolve a problem I am having
with gmail users.

Their complaint is that they do not see a copy of their posts to the
list reflected back to them.  

The options profile for these users is typically "nodupes" and "plain"
All other flags (including the ack and not metoo) flags are clear. 

My system is configured with personalization enabled, and the
individual messages sent out are personalized.  

Basic configuration is Mailman 2.1.9, Solaris 5.9, sendmail
8.13.8+Sun.  

Sendmail logs are quite clear that the user messages are being sent
back to the users and received and acknowledged by the google mail
servers (dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent).  

I'm a bit hampered by knowing absolutely nothing about gmail.  I've
got one user who is quite adamant that the problem is at my end.

"   True with emails from this list, but not with other lists I 
am subscribed to.  Gmail shows both sent one and the copy coming 
back at me." (from "other lists," which are not identified).

Does anybody have any experience with this problem?  Is there a
solution, and if so, what?

Hank


From brian at emwd.com  Fri Mar 14 01:49:27 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:49:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google gmail problem
In-Reply-To: <200803140022.m2E0MeLo022964@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200803140022.m2E0MeLo022964@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <014e01c8856d$42f0dcb0$c8d29610$@com>

> I'm posting this to the mailman-users list in hopes that I can get
> some input that will either explain or resolve a problem I am having
> with gmail users.
> 
> Their complaint is that they do not see a copy of their posts to the
> list reflected back to them.
> 
> The options profile for these users is typically "nodupes" and "plain"
> All other flags (including the ack and not metoo) flags are clear.
> 
> My system is configured with personalization enabled, and the
> individual messages sent out are personalized.
> 
> Basic configuration is Mailman 2.1.9, Solaris 5.9, sendmail
> 8.13.8+Sun.
> 
> Sendmail logs are quite clear that the user messages are being sent
> back to the users and received and acknowledged by the google mail
> servers (dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent).
> 
> I'm a bit hampered by knowing absolutely nothing about gmail.  I've
> got one user who is quite adamant that the problem is at my end.
> 
> "   True with emails from this list, but not with other lists I
> am subscribed to.  Gmail shows both sent one and the copy coming
> back at me." (from "other lists," which are not identified).
> 
> Does anybody have any experience with this problem?  Is there a
> solution, and if so, what?
> 
> Hank
> 

I had this problem reported to me today by a client. I did confirm that the
server (Mailman 2.1.9 and Exim) did send a copy of the post back to the
gmail sender and Google's mail server received it. I just copy and pasted
the portion of the log file that showed this to my client and he was
satisfied.

I don't think this is a mailman issue so I am not sure what kind of help you
will get here but if you find anything else out, please let me know.

Brian


From lev at vpac.org  Fri Mar 14 01:53:31 2008
From: lev at vpac.org (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:53:31 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google gmail problem
In-Reply-To: <200803140022.m2E0MeLo022964@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <195775972.167401205456011067.JavaMail.root@zimbra.vpac.org>



It is a well-known problem.

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#2.8

----- "Hank van Cleef" <vancleef at lostwells.net> wrote:

> I'm posting this to the mailman-users list in hopes that I can get
> some input that will either explain or resolve a problem I am having
> with gmail users.
> 
> Their complaint is that they do not see a copy of their posts to the
> list reflected back to them.  
> 
> The options profile for these users is typically "nodupes" and
> "plain"
> All other flags (including the ack and not metoo) flags are clear. 
> 
> My system is configured with personalization enabled, and the
> individual messages sent out are personalized.  
> 
> Basic configuration is Mailman 2.1.9, Solaris 5.9, sendmail
> 8.13.8+Sun.  
> 
> Sendmail logs are quite clear that the user messages are being sent
> back to the users and received and acknowledged by the google mail
> servers (dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent).  
> 
> I'm a bit hampered by knowing absolutely nothing about gmail.  I've
> got one user who is quite adamant that the problem is at my end.
> 
> "   True with emails from this list, but not with other lists I 
> am subscribed to.  Gmail shows both sent one and the copy coming 
> back at me." (from "other lists," which are not identified).
> 
> Does anybody have any experience with this problem?  Is there a
> solution, and if so, what?
> 
> Hank
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lev%40vpac.org
> 
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Mar 14 02:00:23 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:00:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google gmail problem
Message-ID: <52092.144.189.5.201.1205456423.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>

I meant to send this to the list but it only went out to the OP, damned
reply-to setting on this list (I know, I know, y'all think it is good, I
STILL disagree and always will).



On Thu, March 13, 2008 17:22, Hank van Cleef wrote:
> I'm posting this to the mailman-users list in hopes that I can get some
input that will either explain or resolve a problem I am having with
gmail users.
>
> Their complaint is that they do not see a copy of their posts to the
list reflected back to them.
>
> The options profile for these users is typically "nodupes" and "plain"
All other flags (including the ack and not metoo) flags are clear.
>
> My system is configured with personalization enabled, and the
> individual messages sent out are personalized.
>
> Basic configuration is Mailman 2.1.9, Solaris 5.9, sendmail
> 8.13.8+Sun.
>
> Sendmail logs are quite clear that the user messages are being sent back
to the users and received and acknowledged by the google mail servers
(dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent).
>
> I'm a bit hampered by knowing absolutely nothing about gmail.  I've got
one user who is quite adamant that the problem is at my end.
>
> "   True with emails from this list, but not with other lists I
> am subscribed to.  Gmail shows both sent one and the copy coming back at
me." (from "other lists," which are not identified).
>
> Does anybody have any experience with this problem?  Is there a
> solution, and if so, what?
>

This is a known problem with Gmail which suppresses display of any message
it receives that has a message ID matching one in the sent messages
mailbox.

I am not certain, but I believe that if somebody replies to a post that
was made from a Gmail account, the original post will then "magically"
appear in the threaded view. Since I don't use Gmail, I have to admit this
is hearsay at this point.

There is really nothing anyone can do about it unless and until Google
decides to change it. Your users either have to live with it or use a
different service.


-- 
Dragon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




-- 
Dragon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From alt.listkeeper at gmail.com  Fri Mar 14 02:51:57 2008
From: alt.listkeeper at gmail.com (Bonnie M)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:51:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google gmail problem
In-Reply-To: <200803140022.m2E0MeLo022964@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200803140022.m2E0MeLo022964@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <30c2be260803131851r27c4939fh87d632ed8cefb666@mail.gmail.com>

Nope it's gmail.   From the help section:

Messages sent to mailing lists don't show in my inbox
 When you send a message to any mailing list you subscribe to, Gmail
automatically skips your inbox and archives the message to save you time and
prevent clutter. The message will appear in your inbox if someone responds
to it or if there is an error delivering the message. If you'd like to view
your message, you can find it in *Sent Mail* or *All Mail*
**

Something I've done, is in my member settings, click on yes to receive
acknowledgement
mail when you send it to the list.  It's doesn't give you your message, just
says it was
received.

Bonnie



On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 8:22 PM, Hank van Cleef <vancleef at lostwells.net>
wrote:

> I'm posting this to the mailman-users list in hopes that I can get
> some input that will either explain or resolve a problem I am having
> with gmail users.
>
> Their complaint is that they do not see a copy of their posts to the
> list reflected back to them.
>
> The options profile for these users is typically "nodupes" and "plain"
> All other flags (including the ack and not metoo) flags are clear.
>
> My system is configured with personalization enabled, and the
> individual messages sent out are personalized.
>
> Basic configuration is Mailman 2.1.9, Solaris 5.9, sendmail
> 8.13.8+Sun.
>
> Sendmail logs are quite clear that the user messages are being sent
> back to the users and received and acknowledged by the google mail
> servers (dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent).
>
> I'm a bit hampered by knowing absolutely nothing about gmail.  I've
> got one user who is quite adamant that the problem is at my end.
>
> "   True with emails from this list, but not with other lists I
> am subscribed to.  Gmail shows both sent one and the copy coming
> back at me." (from "other lists," which are not identified).
>
> Does anybody have any experience with this problem?  Is there a
> solution, and if so, what?
>
> Hank
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/alt.listkeeper%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 14 03:26:54 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:26:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10b4 Released
Message-ID: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am happy to announce the next beta release of Mailman 2.1.10.

This is a security and bug fix release and it is highly recommended
that all sites upgrade to this version. Mailman 2.1.10 also adds support
for three new language translations, Galician, Hebrew and Slovak and a
few new features.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and e-
newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, including download links, please see:

http://www.list.org
http://mailman.sf.net
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman

Special thanks are due to Barry Warsaw and Tokio Kikuchi for much coding
and support, Moritz Naumann for help with security issues and Jim Tittsler
for a significant patch.

Here's a list of the major changes.

Security

- - The 2.1.9 fixes for CVE-2006-3636 were not complete. In particular,
some potential cross-site scripting attacks were not detected in
editing templates and updating the list's info attribute via the web
admin interface. This has been assigned CVE-2008-0564 and has been

fixed. Thanks again to Moritz Naumann for assistance with this.


New Features

- - Changed cmd_who.py to list all members if authorization is with the
list's admin or moderator password and to accept the password if the
roster is public. Also changed the web roster to show hidden members
when authorization is by site or list's admin or moderator password
(1587651).

- - Added the ability to put a list name in accept_these_nonmembers
to accept posts from members of that list (1220144).

- - Added a new 'sibling list' feature to exclude members of another list
from receiving a post from this list if the other list is in the To: or
Cc: of the post or to include members of the other list if that list is
not in the To: or Cc: of the post (Patch ID 1347962).

- - Added the admin_member_chunksize attribute to the admin General Options
interface (Bug 1072002, Partial RFE 782436).

Internationalization

- - Added the Hebrew translation from Dov Zamir. This includes addition of
a direction ('ltr', 'rtl') to the LC_DESCRIPTIONS table. The
add_language() function defaults direction to 'ltr' to not break
existing mm_cfg.py files.

- - Added the Slovak translation from Martin Matuska.

- - Added the Galician translation from Frco. Javier Rial Rodr?guez.


Changes since 2.1.10b3 include the Galician translation and updates to
the French translation (Vietnamese and Danish translations were updated
in 2.1.10b3). Other changes since 2.1.10b3 include:

- - In 2.1.9, queue runner processing was made
~  more robust by making backups of queue entries when they were dequeued
~  so they could be recovered in the event of a system failure.  This
~  opened the possibility that if a message itself caused a runner to
~  crash, a loop could result that would endlessly reprocess the message.
~  This has now been fixed by adding a dequeue count to the entry and
~  moving the entry aside and logging the fact after the third dequeue of
~  the same entry.

- - Fixed the command line scripts add_members, sync_members and
~  clone_member to properly handle banned addresses (1904737).

- - Fixed bin/newlist to add the list's preferred language to the list's
~  available_languages if it is other than the server's default language
~  (1906368).

- - Changed the first URL in the RFC 2369 List-Unsubscribe: header to go
~  to the options login page instead of the listinfo page.

- - Changed the options login page to not issue the "No address given"
~  error when coming from the List-Unsubscribe and other direct links.
~  Also changed to remember the user's language selection when
~  redisplaying the page following an error.


/Mark Sapiro

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Mar 14 04:05:08 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:05:08 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Google gmail problem
In-Reply-To: <200803140022.m2E0MeLo022964@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200803140022.m2E0MeLo022964@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <8763vqt38b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Hank van Cleef writes:

 > [Gmail users complain] that they do not see a copy of their posts
 > to the list reflected back to them.

It's a FAQ:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.008.htp

Discussion in the archives of this list indicates it's a common
request to Google to fix, they're aware of it, and they don't consider
it a bug, so it won't get fixed.

 > I'm a bit hampered by knowing absolutely nothing about gmail.  I've
 > got one user who is quite adamant that the problem is at my end.

Good for your user, but they're wrong.  What may be happening is that
the other "lists" they subscribe to are actually Yahoo groups, or
perhaps mailing list software that (incorrectly) usurps the Message-ID.

hth

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 14 03:59:21 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:59:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google gmail problem
In-Reply-To: <200803140022.m2E0MeLo022964@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020080313195921025074c6e62f@msapiro>

Hank van Cleef wrote:
>
>Their complaint is that they do not see a copy of their posts to the
>list reflected back to them.  


Most of this has been well answered in other posts except:

>"   True with emails from this list, but not with other lists I 
>am subscribed to.  Gmail shows both sent one and the copy coming 
>back at me." (from "other lists," which are not identified).


I suspect those other lists are not Mailman lists and are sending out
posts without the original, incoming Message-ID:

If that isn't the explaination, then possibly, the other lists are
'anonymous' and information about the poster is removed from delivered
posts.

Note, I just added a link to the Gmail help text quoted by Bonnie to
our FAQ 2.8.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Mar 14 04:48:39 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:48:39 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply-To Munging Considered Controversial [was:
	Google gmail problem]
In-Reply-To: <52092.144.189.5.201.1205456423.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>
References: <52092.144.189.5.201.1205456423.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <874pbat17s.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Dragon writes:

 > I meant to send this to the list but it only went out to the OP, damned
 > reply-to setting on this list (I know, I know, y'all think it is good, I
 > STILL disagree and always will).

Hey, feel free to write an RFC and update 2822.  For now, Reply-To is
an author header, and therefore should not be changed en route by a
conforming agent, any more than From, Date, or Message-ID.  Mailman of
all lists should take RFC 2822 seriously.

A better answer would be to get an MUA that recognizes RFC 2369
List-Post headers (and optionally a user-configurable list of
addresses to treat the same way if they are the To address), and
automatically adds those addresses to the To or CC.

N.B. I do agree with the "Considered Harmful" crowd, because I use
Reply-To on a regular basis for list traffic control, as well as for
list posts where I request a personal response for some reason.  But
really, the important thing is that 2822 is a very good excuse for a
standard, and we should adapt our software to it rather than subvert
it where our software sucks.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Mar 14 04:27:08 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 22:27:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google gmail problem
In-Reply-To: <52092.144.189.5.201.1205456423.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>
References: <52092.144.189.5.201.1205456423.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3ffa0e41514@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/13/08, Dragon wrote:

>  I meant to send this to the list but it only went out to the OP, damned
>  reply-to setting on this list (I know, I know, y'all think it is good, I
>  STILL disagree and always will).

You can always fix your MUA so that it sets whatever "Reply-to:" 
header you want.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From yahoo at jimpop.com  Fri Mar 14 07:31:58 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 02:31:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.10b4 Released
In-Reply-To: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net>
References: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <7ff145960803132331l7d60eeffxb7590364927673e6@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>  I am happy to announce the next beta release of Mailman 2.1.10.
>
>  This is a security and bug fix release and it is highly recommended
>  that all sites upgrade to this version.

Everyone?  Or just 2.1.10 beta testers?

Are you saying that any 2.1.9 or less Mailman systems need to be
upgraded ASAP to at least 2.1.10b4?

Thx,

-Jim P.

From aj at mindcrash.com  Fri Mar 14 13:59:06 2008
From: aj at mindcrash.com (AJ)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:59:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with list_lists
Message-ID: <20080314085906.16552wkvnv0p9aio@www.mindcrash.com>

Hi,
  I am having an issue with the list_lists command, as well as the  
listinfo CGI.
Also, when running the check_db script, it starts to go through the  
lists, then stops with the same error below after about 6 lists.  My  
question is that something seems to be wrong with a list database  
somewhere, but what list?  What order do these programs parse the  
lists?  Running the list_admins command also bombs after going through  
the same 6 lists.  I need to know what the next list is that these  
commands parse.  That is most likely the bad list.
Any help would be appreciated.

AJ


Here is the output from list_lists.

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "bin/list_lists", line 122, in ?
     main()
   File "bin/list_lists", line 94, in main
     mlist = MailList.MailList(n, lock=0)
   File "/listserv/Mailman/MailList.py", line 101, in __init__
     self.Load()
   File "/listserv/Mailman/MailList.py", line 573, in Load
     dict, e = self.__load(file)
   File "/listserv/Mailman/MailList.py", line 546, in __load
     dict = loadfunc(fp)
cPickle.UnpicklingError: could not find MARK




From munichlinux at gmail.com  Fri Mar 14 16:21:45 2008
From: munichlinux at gmail.com (Prashanth)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:51:45 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics with html type
Message-ID: <1f869bdd0803140821l489c8582rfa5749639b3b2e6e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

                I think mailman discards messages if i send a
text/html message, So how to enable that?

-- 
regards,

Prashanth
http://munichlinux.blogspot.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 14 16:39:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:39:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics with html type
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0803140821l489c8582rfa5749639b3b2e6e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031408390800005cd0ac68@msapiro>

Prashanth wrote:
>
>                I think mailman discards messages if i send a
>text/html message, So how to enable that?


In Content filtering, set filter_content to No or add text/html to
pass_mime_types.

However, your Subject: mentions Topics, so if you are asking about
Keywords: lines in HTML parts, the answer is that Topics are
determined by matching against the Subject: and Keywords: headers
(actual message headers) of the message or Subject: and Keywords:
pseudo headers found in the initial lines of the first text/plain part
only. Thus if the message is HTML only, not multipart/alternative, the
topic matches must be in actual Subject: or Keywords: headers; they
can't be in a Kewords: line in the message body.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 14 16:52:57 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:52:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10b4 Released
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960803132331l7d60eeffxb7590364927673e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031408525703285cd0ade1@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>  I am happy to announce the next beta release of Mailman 2.1.10.
>>
>>  This is a security and bug fix release and it is highly recommended
>>  that all sites upgrade to this version.
>
>Everyone?  Or just 2.1.10 beta testers?
>
>Are you saying that any 2.1.9 or less Mailman systems need to be
>upgraded ASAP to at least 2.1.10b4?


It may be overstated. At a minimum, everyone should be planning to
upgrade to 2.1.10 final when it is available, but the 2.1.10 beta
releases address a security issue that is rather obscure and difficult
to exploit, but which has been publically exposed by the releases
themselves, thus sites which are concerned about this issue should
upgrade now and then again when the final is released.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From alt.listkeeper at gmail.com  Fri Mar 14 17:11:54 2008
From: alt.listkeeper at gmail.com (Bonnie M)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:11:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Requires approval notices
Message-ID: <30c2be260803140911q71ef379n22f772041a1b905d@mail.gmail.com>

I've looked in the FAQ section and don't see anything regarding this.

All of a sudden, as of yesterday, I'm not receiving the "requires approval"
notices.  I am not
knowledgeable with the technical stuff at all, but the settings say yes to
receive these notices immediately.  While the listkeeper on my list feels is
not a big deal, as we go and check the admin pages regularly, this kind of
stuff just drives me crazy!

Why the heck did it just stop working all of a sudden?

Thanks in advance!

Bonnie

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 14 17:52:57 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:52:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with list_lists
In-Reply-To: <20080314085906.16552wkvnv0p9aio@www.mindcrash.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803140952570875cffee724@msapiro>

AJ wrote:

>  I am having an issue with the list_lists command, as well as the  
>listinfo CGI.
>Also, when running the check_db script, it starts to go through the  
>lists, then stops with the same error below after about 6 lists.  My  
>question is that something seems to be wrong with a list database  
>somewhere, but what list?  What order do these programs parse the  
>lists?  Running the list_admins command also bombs after going through  
>the same 6 lists.  I need to know what the next list is that these  
>commands parse.  That is most likely the bad list.
>Any help would be appreciated.


list_lists processes the lists in alphanumeric sort sequence by name.

You could always save the following 2-line file as bin/no_op.py

def no_op(mlist, *args):
    return

and then run

bin/withlist -a -r no_op

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 14 17:58:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:58:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Requires approval notices
In-Reply-To: <30c2be260803140911q71ef379n22f772041a1b905d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803140958230078129ca3e5@msapiro>

Bonnie M wrote:
>
>All of a sudden, as of yesterday, I'm not receiving the "requires approval"
>notices.  I am not
>knowledgeable with the technical stuff at all, but the settings say yes to
>receive these notices immediately.  While the listkeeper on my list feels is
>not a big deal, as we go and check the admin pages regularly, this kind of
>stuff just drives me crazy!
>
>Why the heck did it just stop working all of a sudden?


My guess is that VirginRunner died. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>,
sections 1b, 5b and 8. If this is a hosted installation, you will need
to contact the host, and refer them to this FAQ information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu  Fri Mar 14 18:10:46 2008
From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Christopher Waltham)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:10:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is really required to go from 2.0.x to 2.1.y?
Message-ID: <1AF9A11B7A6EDC42A4DEAA53C1E8AA01016D308A@BOWD-MSG-01.bowdoincollege.edu>

I am almost hesitant to post this email at all, because I am so amazingly confused at what is going on I half-think I'm imagining it.

I have a Mailman 2.0.12 instance (not 2.0.5 as I previously thought, sorry Mark) running on a Solaris 8 SPARC server, which I'd planned to move onto a Linux RHEL4 x86 server using Mailman 2.1.9. In both cases, Mailman would be installed into /home/mailman to minimize configuration changes. In both cases, the hostname of the server would be list.bowdoin.edu. In both cases, /home/mailman would actually be served via NFS. And, oh yeah, I'm switching MTAs too (Postfix to sendmail). 

So, I made a copy of /home/mailman (which is actually on a NetApp) in case I had to revert my migration from Solaris to Linux. This was my workflow on the Linux server:

* mount a fresh copy of /home/mailman (which is Mailman 0.12 from Solaris)
* rm -rf /home/mailman/Mailman (because I'm switching MTAs)
* configure Mailman 2.1.9 using the following string: "./configure --prefix=/home/mailman --with-urlhost=list.bowdoin.edu --with-mailhost=list.bowdoin.edu --with-cgi-gid=apache --with-mail-gid=mail"
* run "make install"
* watch as "make install" runs "bin/update", it fails on a couple of lists. Remove the offending lists, re-run "bin/update", watch it run successfully.
* "rm /home/mailman/locks/* ; rm /home/mailman/qfiles/* ; rm /home/mailman/data/pending_subscriptions.db" just to make sure
* run "bin/check_perms -f", watch it run successfully.
* run "bin/genaliases", paste output into /etc/aliases, run "newaliases"
* run "bin/mm_sitepass"
* run "bin/mailmanctl start"

The problem is when I run "bin/list_members" on a list of whose membership I know well. Amazingly, when I run that command, I see list members from around 2-3 years ago; I do not see list members whom I absolutely know are on that list. And then, well, I get so confused I can hardly stand. :)

What on earth is going on here? I have seen URLs like http://acd.ucar.edu/~fredrick/linux/mailman/upgrading.html and http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg13279.html with hints for migrating server and versions at the same time; specifically running the fix_url command to update URLs for archives. But, I'm keeping the same hostname (list.bowdoin.edu) from both Solaris and Linux, so I don't bother with this.

Does anyone have the faintest idea of what's going on? It's like I'm seeing a ghost. I know that copy of /home/mailman is, pre-upgrade, the same from the Sun server to the Linux server because there are unique files in there which I've placed myself.

FWIW, I just made *another* copy of the /home/mailman directory from the Sun server, mounted it on the Linux server and DID NOT UPGRADE IT. Lo and behold, when I run bin/list_members, I see _correct_ users, _not old ones_.

Thoughts? Am I going crazy?

Thanks,


Chris


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 14 18:37:15 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:37:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is really required to go from 2.0.x to
	2.1.y?
In-Reply-To: <1AF9A11B7A6EDC42A4DEAA53C1E8AA01016D308A@BOWD-MSG-01.bowdoincollege.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803141037150562e9df70a1@msapiro>

Christopher Waltham wrote:

<process snipped, but it looks OK>
>
>The problem is when I run "bin/list_members" on a list of whose membership I know well. Amazingly, when I run that command, I see list members from around 2-3 years ago; I do not see list members whom I absolutely know are on that list. And then, well, I get so confused I can hardly stand. :)


I don't know, but I have a good guess. 2-3 years ago, someone tried to
migrate to Mailman 2.1.x and then reversed, but this process left
config.pck files (converted from the 2.0.x config.db files) in some or
all of the lists/<listname>/ directories.

The current list upgrade process is finding those old config.pck files
and using them in preference to the actually more current config.db
files.


>Does anyone have the faintest idea of what's going on? It's like I'm seeing a ghost. I know that copy of /home/mailman is, pre-upgrade, the same from the Sun server to the Linux server because there are unique files in there which I've placed myself.
>
>FWIW, I just made *another* copy of the /home/mailman directory from the Sun server, mounted it on the Linux server and DID NOT UPGRADE IT. Lo and behold, when I run bin/list_members, I see _correct_ users, _not old ones_.
>
>Thoughts? Am I going crazy?


Start with your good 2.0.12 installation and remove any config.pck and
config.pck.last files from the lists/listname/ directories and then
follow your upgrade procedure.

Then when you are satisfied with the results, remove the old config.db
and config.db.last files from the new installation so that they can't
be used as fallbacks 2 years from now.

A possibly viable alternative is to look at your 2.1.9 installation and
just remove the config.pck and config.pck.last files from any
lists/listname/ directory that has a config.db. Mailman will then
convert the config.db the first time the list is accessed, and if you
like that, you can then just remove the old config.db* files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu  Fri Mar 14 19:38:25 2008
From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Christopher Waltham)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:38:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is really required to go from 2.0.x to
	2.1.y?
References: <PC1760200803141037150562e9df70a1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1AF9A11B7A6EDC42A4DEAA53C1E8AA01016D308B@BOWD-MSG-01.bowdoincollege.edu>

Again, apologies for the way Exchange Webmail quotes messages.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Fri 3/14/2008 1:37 PM
To: Christopher Waltham; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] What is really required to go from 2.0.x to 2.1.y?
 
>>The problem is when I run "bin/list_members" on a list of whose membership I know well. >>Amazingly, when I run that command, I see list members from around 2-3 years ago; I do not see >>list members whom I absolutely know are on that list. And then, well, I get so confused I can >>hardly stand. :)

>I don't know, but I have a good guess. 2-3 years ago, someone tried to
>migrate to Mailman 2.1.x and then reversed, but this process left
>config.pck files (converted from the 2.0.x config.db files) in some or
>all of the lists/<listname>/ directories.

Running this: ( cd lists ; find . -name config.pck ) finds lots of results -- I have a lot of lists, but I bet there's one for each list. :-( As you go on to explain, there were lots of config.pck.last files, too.

>The current list upgrade process is finding those old config.pck files
>and using them in preference to the actually more current config.db
>files.

I had hoped (feared?) the process was doing something like what you outline, but at least I now know what it is!

>>Start with your good 2.0.12 installation and remove any config.pck and
>>config.pck.last files from the lists/listname/ directories and then
>>follow your upgrade procedure.

Done...

>>Then when you are satisfied with the results, remove the old config.db
>>and config.db.last files from the new installation so that they can't
>>be used as fallbacks 2 years from now.

In the process of doing this now.

>>A possibly viable alternative is to look at your 2.1.9 installation and
>>just remove the config.pck and config.pck.last files from any
>>lists/listname/ directory that has a config.db. Mailman will then
>>convert the config.db the first time the list is accessed, and if you
>>like that, you can then just remove the old config.db* files.

Just out of interest, what defines "access"? Is this something I can accomplish from the command-line myself, or does it require the mailman wrapper command being called from the aliases file?

Thanks again, Mark,


Chris

From bh2 at medicine.wisc.edu  Fri Mar 14 20:38:13 2008
From: bh2 at medicine.wisc.edu (Brian Herold)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:38:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list commands being limited?
Message-ID: <47DA8D54.7D30.003A.0@medicine.wisc.edu>

We have an automated system that programmatically adds users to lists using the email command functionality (subscribe nodigest address=$theemailaddress).  Though, some of the lists are large and occasionally we get the returned email response:
 
"We have received a message from your address `the at sender.com' 
requesting an automated response from the
the-list at lists.com mailing list.  We have seen 10 such
messages from you today.  In order to avoid problems such as mail
loops between email robots, we will not be sending you any further
email responses today.  Please try again tomorrow.
 
If you believe this message is in error, or if you have any questions,
please contact the list owner at
the-list at lists.com." 
 
*Note that I renamed the sending and list email addresses.
 
Is there some limit that's being triggered causing this message, and what can I do to prevent it?
Thanks,
Brian

From SJONES at arinc.com  Fri Mar 14 21:02:49 2008
From: SJONES at arinc.com (Jones, Stephen  (SJONES))
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:02:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem using procmail to send mail through
	spamassassin
Message-ID: <E266EE43CDD87F4DB629F73A7966A5701B58EEFB@ANPMB6.arinc.com>

Hello,

I had the Mailman lists working but needed to update the URL's in the
mm-cfg.py file to change the name.  I now cannot send mail to the lists when
using procmail to force it through SpamAssassin.


I get the following errors in my maillog:

Mar  7 12:37:15 xaanm10anp sendmail[17241]: m27HbF5V017240:
to="|/usr/bin/procmail -m MAILMAN=vam /etc/procmailrc",
ctladdr=<vam at xaanm10anp.arinc.net> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
mailer=prog, pri=30638, dsn=5.0.0, stat=Can't create output

Mar  7 12:37:15 xaanm10anp sendmail[17241]: m27HbF5V017240: m27HbF5V017241:
DSN: Can't create output

Here's what I have:

        Red Hat AS4 Update4
        Sendmail 8.13
        Mailman 2.1.5
        Procmail 3.22


Mailman and procmail have the sym link in /etc/smrsh.  

If I send email to a list as myself from the list server without using
procmail, the email gets posted to the list.

If I use procmail I get the error above.

When I changed the URL information in mm-cfg.py I also ran the following on
all the lists.

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/arch vam
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vam.mbox/vam.mbox

And

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url Vam  

These lists were copied over from another server.

The procmailrc file read as follows:

:0fw: *| spamc -u mail

I also updated and recreated the access.db to include the new name.

Does anyone have a clue as to why I would get this error?  I have checked
and rechecked all of the permissions I can think of.


Thank you,

Stephen

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 14 21:14:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:14:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is really required to go from 2.0.x to
 2.1.y?
In-Reply-To: <1AF9A11B7A6EDC42A4DEAA53C1E8AA01016D308B@BOWD-MSG-01.bowdoincollege.edu>
References: <PC1760200803141037150562e9df70a1@msapiro>
	<1AF9A11B7A6EDC42A4DEAA53C1E8AA01016D308B@BOWD-MSG-01.bowdoincollege.edu>
Message-ID: <47DADCAB.9030502@msapiro.net>

Christopher Waltham quoted me and wrote:
> 
>>> A possibly viable alternative is to look at your 2.1.9
>>> installation and just remove the config.pck and config.pck.last
>>> files from any lists/listname/ directory that has a config.db.
>>> Mailman will then convert the config.db the first time the list
>>> is accessed, and if you like that, you can then just remove the
>>> old config.db* files.
> 
> Just out of interest, what defines "access"? Is this something I can
> accomplish from the command-line myself, or does it require the
> mailman wrapper command being called from the aliases file?


Anything that instantiates a list object. From the command line, 
bin/list_lists will do it for all lists. Any command that targets a list 
(e.g. bin/list_members) will do it for that list.

 From the web, the listinfo overview page will do it for all lists, and 
any list specific page will do it for that list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From robinlh at us.ibm.com  Fri Mar 14 21:57:43 2008
From: robinlh at us.ibm.com (Robin Lougee-Heimer)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:57:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is it possible to edit the html for the archive
	page?
Message-ID: <OF4E717B05.44E211EB-ON8525740C.0072A9F2-8525740C.0073210B@us.ibm.com>

A mailman archive was inadvertently made public for a list I own (!) and 
I'm trying to clean up any pages that were cached by search engines. 

The way to flush the cache created by search engines is easy - just add an 
html tag in the header section of the webpage pages.  But I can't figure 
out how to access the html pages for the archive pages generated by 
mailman.  Is there a way?   (I didn't see this addressed in the faqs or in 
a quick scan of the documentation.)

thanks,
Robin

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 15 00:20:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:20:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is it possible to edit the html for the
	archivepage?
In-Reply-To: <OF4E717B05.44E211EB-ON8525740C.0072A9F2-8525740C.0073210B@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803141620240687561fa9c7@msapiro>

Robin Lougee-Heimer wrote:

>A mailman archive was inadvertently made public for a list I own (!) and 
>I'm trying to clean up any pages that were cached by search engines. 
>
>The way to flush the cache created by search engines is easy - just add an 
>html tag in the header section of the webpage pages.  But I can't figure 
>out how to access the html pages for the archive pages generated by 
>mailman.  Is there a way?   (I didn't see this addressed in the faqs or in 
>a quick scan of the documentation.)



Whether your list archives are public or private, the static HTML pages
are all in the archives/private/listname/ directories and can be
edited as you desire, but some pages such as the TOC and index pages
are rewritten as messages are added.

But, this won't do any good. When your archive was public, it was
accessed via the 'pipermail' alias. I.e. it was accessed via a URL of
the form http://www.example.com/pipermail/listname/ which accessed the
archive itself via a symlink in archives/public/. Now that the archive
is private, the symlink is gone, and that 'pipermail' URL no longer
works.

In any case, you need to just wait for the search engine to crawl your
site again, find that the URL now returns a 'not found' and drop its
cached page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 15 02:48:06 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:48:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list commands being limited?
In-Reply-To: <47DA8D54.7D30.003A.0@medicine.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031418480607186416f134@msapiro>

Brian Herold wrote:

>We have an automated system that programmatically adds users to lists using the email command functionality (subscribe nodigest address=$theemailaddress).  Though, some of the lists are large and occasionally we get the returned email response:
> 
>"We have received a message from your address `the at sender.com' 
>requesting an automated response from the
>the-list at lists.com mailing list.  We have seen 10 such
>messages from you today.  In order to avoid problems such as mail
>loops between email robots, we will not be sending you any further
>email responses today.  Please try again tomorrow.
> 
>If you believe this message is in error, or if you have any questions,
>please contact the list owner at
>the-list at lists.com." 
> 
>*Note that I renamed the sending and list email addresses.
> 
>Is there some limit that's being triggered causing this message, and what can I do to prevent it?


The limit is MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY which defaults to 10. It can be
set lower or higher, and it can be set to 0 for no limit, but note
that if you set it either to 0 or a large value, your server can be
used a spam reflector or for 'Joe Jobbing'.

Note however that the subscribe command(s) are still processed even
though the 10th one gets the above response and the remainder get no
response.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 15 05:10:36 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:10:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a question about content-filtering
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.58.0803100944140.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803142110360031e7ab6ea3@msapiro>

liste yoneticisi wrote:
>
>Actually I just want a vissible message for deleted/filtered attachments.


Actually, given the current architecture of content filtering, this
turns out to be not at all easy to do in any reasonable way. About the
best that could be done without too much difficulty is content
filtering could prepare a report along the lines of

 text/html part removed by content filtering
 image/jpeg part removed by content filtering
 application/msword part removed by content filtering

and add it to the message similarly to the way msg_footer is added.

In any case, this is not likely to be done before Mailman 2.2 if then.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar 15 05:06:54 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:06:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem using procmail to send mail through
 spamassassin
In-Reply-To: <E266EE43CDD87F4DB629F73A7966A5701B58EEFB@ANPMB6.arinc.com>
References: <E266EE43CDD87F4DB629F73A7966A5701B58EEFB@ANPMB6.arinc.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c400fb6c4db9@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/14/08, Jones, Stephen  \(SJONES\) wrote:

>  I had the Mailman lists working but needed to update the URL's in the
>  mm-cfg.py file to change the name.  I now cannot send mail to the lists when
>  using procmail to force it through SpamAssassin.

First off, you don't want to use procmail to send stuff through 
SpamAssassin.  You want to integrate SpamAssassin into your MTA, so 
that all that stuff gets caught before procmail gets called for 
delivery.

>  I get the following errors in my maillog:
>
>  Mar  7 12:37:15 xaanm10anp sendmail[17241]: m27HbF5V017240:
>  to="|/usr/bin/procmail -m MAILMAN=vam /etc/procmailrc",
>  ctladdr=<vam at xaanm10anp.arinc.net> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
>  mailer=prog, pri=30638, dsn=5.0.0, stat=Can't create output
>
>  Mar  7 12:37:15 xaanm10anp sendmail[17241]: m27HbF5V017240: m27HbF5V017241:
>  DSN: Can't create output

This sounds to me like a procmail problem, and you'd need to ask this 
question on a procmail mailing list.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From cp at ccil.org  Sat Mar 15 15:41:41 2008
From: cp at ccil.org (Chuck Peters)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 10:41:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ubuntu security update broken
Message-ID: <cfd69f2e0803150741w42584cabje96924c986335f53@mail.gmail.com>

# /var/lib/mailman/bin/update
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 51, in <module>
    from Mailman import MailList
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 64, in <module>
    from Mailman import Gui
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/__init__.py", line 21, in <module>
    from General import General
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/General.py", line 438
    elif property == 'info':
       ^

What should I do now?


Thanks,
Chuck

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 15 16:08:59 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:08:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ubuntu security update broken
In-Reply-To: <cfd69f2e0803150741w42584cabje96924c986335f53@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803150808590781a6d01b68@msapiro>

Chuck Peters wrote:

># /var/lib/mailman/bin/update
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 51, in <module>
>    from Mailman import MailList
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 64, in <module>
>    from Mailman import Gui
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/__init__.py", line 21, in <module>
>    from General import General
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/General.py", line 438
>    elif property == 'info':
>       ^
>
>What should I do now?


Talk to your packager (Ubuntu/Debian?).

If you want advice from this list on how to fix this yourself, it would
help if you posted the complete error message, although from what I
see, the exception is probably SyntaxError, but to know what actually
caused it and how to fix it, we need to see  a range of lines, say
428-448 from /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/General.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fabriciopoliveira at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 15 16:23:06 2008
From: fabriciopoliveira at hotmail.com (Fabricio Oliveira)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:23:06 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
Message-ID: <BLU107-W47976FA0BEF1A7F0903EF6A70B0@phx.gbl>


Hi Mark, I stoped the services and restored backup. I checked permssions and started the services. After that the mailman doesn't restart, see logs: Traceback (most recent call last):  File '/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl', line 548, in ?    main()  File '/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl', line 517, in main    newpid = start_runner(qrname, slice, count)  File '/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl', line 257, in start_runner    os.execl(mm_cfg.PYTHON, mm_cfg.PYTHON, exe, rswitch, '-s')  File '/usr/lib/python2.4/os.py', line 309, in execl    execv(file, args)OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directoryMar 15 12:11:01 2008 (11307) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit(pid: 11331, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]Mar 15 12:11:01 2008 (11307) Qrunner BounceRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. I don't know what is happen, but I need solve this issue... Thank you for your help. Regards,Fabricio
_________________________________________________________________
Veja mapas e encontre as melhores rotas para fugir do tr?nsito com o Live Search Maps!
http://www.livemaps.com.br/index.aspx?tr=true
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From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 15 18:08:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 10:08:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <BLU107-W47976FA0BEF1A7F0903EF6A70B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU107-W47976FA0BEF1A7F0903EF6A70B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47DC0297.8050006@msapiro.net>

Fabricio Oliveira wrote:
>  
> I stoped the services and restored backup. I checked permssions and 
> started the services. After that the mailman doesn't restart, see logs:
>  
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File '/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl', line 548, in ?
>     main()
>   File '/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl', line 517, in main
>     newpid = start_runner(qrname, slice, count)
>   File '/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl', line 257, in start_runner
>     os.execl(mm_cfg.PYTHON, mm_cfg.PYTHON, exe, rswitch, '-s')
>   File '/usr/lib/python2.4/os.py', line 309, in execl
>     execv(file, args)
> OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory
> Mar 15 12:11:01 2008 (11307) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 11331, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) 
> [restarting]
> Mar 15 12:11:01 2008 (11307) Qrunner BounceRunner reached maximum 
> restart limit of 10, not restarting.
>  
> I don't know what is happen, but I need solve this issue...


It appears that you installed a broken backup.

It was not a good idea to install an entire backup. The only thing that 
needed to be restored from backup was the apparently corrupt 
/usr/local/mailman/lists/cartaoberro/config.pck file.

If possible, you should go back to what you had prior to the restore and 
then replace only that one file with the one from the backup.

If that is not possible, the above error is caused by an incorrect value 
for PYTHON or for PREFIX in Defaults.py. These are set by configure, so 
the problem appears to be that the backup you restored was 
mis-configured and not a working Mailman or the restore was incomplete, 
or the location of 'python' has changed since the backup.

You really need to go back to your "almost working except for the 
cartaoberro list" Mailman and just restore that one list's config.pck. 
If you can't do that, you may have to just start over.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From allan at abrahamse.org  Sat Mar 15 21:29:16 2008
From: allan at abrahamse.org (Allan Abrahamse)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 13:29:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to download a list of all the email addresses
Message-ID: <47DC319C.6090903@abrahamse.org>

In my mailman list, when I ask to see the subscribers email addresses I 
get a page that makes me select a letter and then I see only those 
addresses beginning with the selected letter. A couple of years ago I 
discovered, somehow, a way to get a the entire list of email addresses, 
all on one page (I only have 50 or so subscribers so it was not a very 
big page). I'm trying to find that URL but I can't. Can anybody remind me?

Thank you
allan at abrahamse.org

From allan at abrahamse.org  Sat Mar 15 21:22:37 2008
From: allan at abrahamse.org (Allan Abrahamse)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 13:22:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe
Message-ID: <47DC300D.4050809@abrahamse.org>



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 15 22:12:38 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:12:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to download a list of all the email
	addresses
In-Reply-To: <47DC319C.6090903@abrahamse.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031514123802816b8ba91f@msapiro>

Allan Abrahamse wrote:

>In my mailman list, when I ask to see the subscribers email addresses I 
>get a page that makes me select a letter and then I see only those 
>addresses beginning with the selected letter. A couple of years ago I 
>discovered, somehow, a way to get a the entire list of email addresses, 
>all on one page (I only have 50 or so subscribers so it was not a very 
>big page). I'm trying to find that URL but I can't. Can anybody remind me?

You are probably thinking of something like
<http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/listname> which is also
accessible from the "Visit Subscriber List" button on the "listinfo"
page.

Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>

Finally, Mailman 2.1.10 (now in beta) will allow setting "Maximum
number of members to show on one page of the Membership List." on the
list's General Options page. In your case, you could set this greater
than 50 or so and the Membership List page wouldn't subdivide
alphabetically.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 15 23:27:53 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:27:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] minimizing spam addresses on web site
In-Reply-To: <cfd69f2e0803100623m463c407h15fc8f28c9240174@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031515275305789a343917@msapiro>

Chuck Peters wrote:
>
>I would like to replace all mailto: links to a
>http://mailhide.recaptcha.netURL.  I changed the listinfo page on a
>test list, but changing it throughout
>a list's pages isn't as trivial.  It appears that part of the footer code is
>def GetMailmanFooter in Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py.
>
>I have very little experience hacking python and could really use some help
>getting this to work.  Besides I think this could be useful for lots of
>others who are sick of the deluge of spam.  Any suggestions?

An edited 'grep' output showing the modules that put mailto links on
Mailman's web pages is

Archiver/HyperArch.py:                # Point the mailto url back to
the list
Archiver/HyperArch.py:                        URL = 'mailto:' + text
Cgi/admin.py:        Link('mailto:%s' % mailman_owner, mailman_owner),
Cgi/listinfo.py:         Link('mailto:' + siteowner, siteowner),
HTMLFormatter.py:        owner_link = Link('mailto:' +
self.GetOwnerEmail(), ownertext).Format()
HTMLFormatter.py:            mailto = Link('mailto:' +
self.GetOwnerEmail(),
HTMLFormatter.py:            %(link)s option below.  Contact %(mailto)s
if you have any


There are also mailto links in the HTML templates article.html and
listinfo.html.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jim-ml at themiditrombone.net  Sun Mar 16 04:25:33 2008
From: jim-ml at themiditrombone.net (Jim Hale)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:25:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different Port For Web Pages
Message-ID: <001201c88715$65129a00$2f37ce00$@net>

Greetings!

I'm running my mail server from a different machine than I am my
Website(s)/BBS(s) and need to use port 8080. I have the machine listening on
the correct port but need to know how to universally change the links
throughout Mailman to append :8080 to all of them so the outside world can
get to them.

Any points in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. :)

Jim Hale
The MIDI Trombone BBS - http://bbs.themiditrombone.net
Fantastic Adventures Online BBS - http://bbs.fantasticadventuresonline.net








From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 16 05:26:44 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 21:26:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different Port For Web Pages
In-Reply-To: <001201c88715$65129a00$2f37ce00$@net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803152126440750380e317a@msapiro>

Jim Hale wrote:
>
>I'm running my mail server from a different machine than I am my
>Website(s)/BBS(s) and need to use port 8080. I have the machine listening on
>the correct port but need to know how to universally change the links
>throughout Mailman to append :8080 to all of them so the outside world can
>get to them.
>
>Any points in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. :)


Put

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:8080/mailman/'

in mm_cfg.py - don't omit the trailing slash.

Then run fix_url on all existing lists. E.g. without virtual domains,
you could run

bin/withlist -a -l -r fix_url

This will fix everything except the link to the listinfo page in the
static HTML pages in the archives. Newly archived messages and neyly
built index and TOC pages will have the correct link, but old ones
will not. If you want to fix these, you can edit the URLs directly
with some kind of script or rebuild the archives for each list with
'bin/arch --wipe listname'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mokhin at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 12:47:03 2008
From: mokhin at gmail.com (Grigory Mokhin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 07:47:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AttributeError: Message instance has no attribute
	'get_type'
Message-ID: <2984c4d50803160447o3e310972xba0f184ec80746bc@mail.gmail.com>

I've installed 2.1.10b4 from scratch and I'm getting the following error:

Mar 16 01:26:11 2008 (2076) Uncaught runner exception: Message
instance has no attribute 'get_type'
Mar 16 01:26:11 2008 (2076) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py", line 74, in _dispose
    self._func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 159, in process
    deliveryfunc(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, refused, conn)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 292, in verpdeliver
    Decorate.process(mlist, msgcopy, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py", line 133, in process
    elif msg.get_type() == 'multipart/mixed':
AttributeError: Message instance has no attribute 'get_type'

Mar 16 01:26:11 2008 (2076) SHUNTING:
1205623299.1393819+488d99e2bbef7631f7c6da12b2bf6bc48b203157

Atm I commented out the line in Handlers/Decorate.py

# elif msg.get_type() == 'multipart/mixed':

and put instead

elif msgtype == 'multipart/mixed':

It seems it works this way, but I'm not sure if it doesn't break anything else.

Any advice with this?

Regards,
Grigory

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 16 16:22:41 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 08:22:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AttributeError: Message instance has no
	attribute'get_type'
In-Reply-To: <2984c4d50803160447o3e310972xba0f184ec80746bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803160822410171c117c714@msapiro>

Grigory Mokhin wrote:

>I've installed 2.1.10b4 from scratch and I'm getting the following error:
>
>Mar 16 01:26:11 2008 (2076) Uncaught runner exception: Message
>instance has no attribute 'get_type'
>Mar 16 01:26:11 2008 (2076) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py", line 74, in _dispose
>    self._func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 159, in process
>    deliveryfunc(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, refused, conn)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 292, in verpdeliver
>    Decorate.process(mlist, msgcopy, msgdata)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py", line 133, in process
>    elif msg.get_type() == 'multipart/mixed':
>AttributeError: Message instance has no attribute 'get_type'
>
>Mar 16 01:26:11 2008 (2076) SHUNTING:
>1205623299.1393819+488d99e2bbef7631f7c6da12b2bf6bc48b203157
>
>Atm I commented out the line in Handlers/Decorate.py
>
># elif msg.get_type() == 'multipart/mixed':
>
>and put instead
>
>elif msgtype == 'multipart/mixed':
>
>It seems it works this way, but I'm not sure if it doesn't break anything else.


That's not the correct workaround. If you want to work around it, you
should change

    elif msg.get_type() == 'multipart/mixed':
to
    elif msg.get_content_type() == 'multipart/mixed':

but you'd need to make those changes in several places.

The real issue is that there should be a pythonlib/ directory in your
$prefix directory, and that in turn should have an email/ directory
which is the email 2.5.8 package. This should all have been installed
by 'configure','make install' process.

So, what do you have? What went wrong that you are using the email
package from your Python installation instead of Mailman's?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mokhin at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 17:00:10 2008
From: mokhin at gmail.com (Grigory Mokhin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:00:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AttributeError: Message instance has no
	attribute'get_type'
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803160822410171c117c714@msapiro>
References: <2984c4d50803160447o3e310972xba0f184ec80746bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200803160822410171c117c714@msapiro>
Message-ID: <2984c4d50803160900o189ef147y448cf5e38f36daef@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/16/08, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
> That's not the correct workaround. If you want to work around it, you
>  should change
>
>
>     elif msg.get_type() == 'multipart/mixed':
>
> to
>     elif msg.get_content_type() == 'multipart/mixed':

Earlier in Decorate.py there is a line:    msgtype =
msg.get_content_type(), seems pretty much the same thing.

>  The real issue is that there should be a pythonlib/ directory in your
>  $prefix directory, and that in turn should have an email/ directory
>  which is the email 2.5.8 package. This should all have been installed
>  by 'configure','make install' process.

pythonlib/ directory is empty. I see email 2.5.8 gzipped package in
the source misc/ directory, obviously it was not installed by make
install.

>  So, what do you have? What went wrong that you are using the email
>  package from your Python installation instead of Mailman's?

Nothing went wrong. It was installation from src that went fine
without any warnings.

Configure was invoked as ./configure --prefix=/home/mailman
--with-mail-gid=mailman --with-cgi-gid=apache --with-mailhost=xxx
with-urlhost=xxx

Regards,
Grigory

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 16 17:27:09 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:27:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AttributeError: Message instance has
	noattribute'get_type'
In-Reply-To: <2984c4d50803160900o189ef147y448cf5e38f36daef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803160927090984e9e7eda1@msapiro>

Grigory Mokhin wrote:

>On 3/16/08, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>> That's not the correct workaround. If you want to work around it, you
>>  should change
>>
>>
>>     elif msg.get_type() == 'multipart/mixed':
>>
>> to
>>     elif msg.get_content_type() == 'multipart/mixed':
>
>Earlier in Decorate.py there is a line:    msgtype =
>msg.get_content_type(), seems pretty much the same thing.


Yes. That's correct in this case, but there are at least 12 other uses
of the message get_type() method in other Mailman modules, so unless
you want to change them all, it's better to figure out why you don't
have the proper pythonlib/


>>  The real issue is that there should be a pythonlib/ directory in your
>>  $prefix directory, and that in turn should have an email/ directory
>>  which is the email 2.5.8 package. This should all have been installed
>>  by 'configure','make install' process.
>
>pythonlib/ directory is empty. I see email 2.5.8 gzipped package in
>the source misc/ directory, obviously it was not installed by make
>install.
>
>>  So, what do you have? What went wrong that you are using the email
>>  package from your Python installation instead of Mailman's?
>
>Nothing went wrong. It was installation from src that went fine
>without any warnings.
>
>Configure was invoked as ./configure --prefix=/home/mailman
>--with-mail-gid=mailman --with-cgi-gid=apache --with-mailhost=xxx
>with-urlhost=xxx


Is there a Makefile in the source misc/ directory? was it executed
during make install? This Makefile should among other things install
the email library and Japanese and Korean codecs in pythonlib.

You could try just running 'make install' in the source misc/ directory
and see what happens.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ftg at roadrunner.com  Sun Mar 16 21:16:28 2008
From: ftg at roadrunner.com (Frank Griffin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:16:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080110124235004663ed0351@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080110124235004663ed0351@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47DD801C.2060802@roadrunner.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Frank Griffin wrote:
>> According to the UPGRADE document, file formats have changed as have
>> actual files (some new, some gone). What triggers the 2.1 version to do
>> the necessary conversions ? Is it just finding files of the old version
>> and recognizing them as such ?
>
>
> Yes, as far as the old config.db to new config.pck conversion is
> concerned.
>
> As far as other files such as the pending database and qfiles are
> concerned, these will be converted by bin/update if you are upgrading
> an installation, but if you are simply moving lists from an old to a
> new installation, it is best to deal with pending requests and queued
> messages on the old system and blow off anything that is left. There
> is no automated way of converting these in the new installation.
>
>
>> Does the last_mailman_version in the
>> data directory trigger this ?
>
>
> No. last_mailman_version tells bin/update whether it needs to do
> anything. This comes into play when installing an upgrade, but when
> moving an old list's config.(db|pck) into an existing installation, it
> is the DATA_FILE_VERSION in the config file itself that triggers the
> update.
>
>
>> There are various minor concerns, such as file permissions, aliases,
>> redoing public archive symlinks, and so forth. This made me wonder if
>> it would be easier/possible to run bin/newlist for each existing 2.0
>> list in the 2.1.9 system, and *then* bring over the data, lists, and
>> archives/private directories. Advisable ?
>
>
> No. This is absolutely wrong. If you create the list on the new system
> first, Mailman will always see that list's config.pck and will never
> look at the config.db that you move over.
>
> My advice is:
>
> Do not create the lists on the new host.
>
> Do not move anything from the data/ directory.
>
> Move only the config.db from the lists/<listname>/ directories.
>
> Move the archives/private/ tree.
>
> Run bin/list_lists which will instantiate every list and convert every
> old config.db to a new config.pck.
>
> Run bin/genaliases to create/update aliases.
>
> After conversion, remove the config.db files as if you don't, a
> possible future problem in reading the config.pck and config.pck.last
> files could cause Mailman to fall back to the then outdated config.db.
>
> Public archive symlinks will be created automatically the first time a
> list's configuration is saved. The bin/list_lists accessing and
> converting of the config.db files won't do this, but a list post or
> accessing the admin web interface for a list will.
>


Mark,

Thanks for the reply.  I've recently gotten back to this and wanted to
post my results.

In addition to the steps you posted, I needed to run "withlist -a -l -r
fix_url".

However, I have one anomaly that still needs resolution:

All of the lists I moved had the option set to reply to the list (yes, I
know), and they show up this way when I display them in the admin UI. 
However, when I post to them, the post mails arrive with a reply-to of
the poster and the list description linked to an email address of the
list owner, e.g.

List-Id: WebData Project Discussion <webdata.ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com>
List-Unsubscribe:
<http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/mailman/listinfo/webdata>,
    <mailto:webdata-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/pipermail/webdata>
List-Post: <mailto:webdata at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com>
List-Help: <mailto:webdata-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe:
<http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/mailman/listinfo/webdata>,
    <mailto:webdata-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=subscribe>
Reply-To: ftg at roadrunner.com,
              WebData Project Discussion <frank.griffin at selectbs.com>


In this case, the list owner is frank.griffin at selectbs.com and the
poster is ftg at roadrunner.com .  It seems to me that this ought to be
WebData Project Discussion <webdata at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com> .

Did I miss a step ?  What can I do to correct this ?

From ftg at roadrunner.com  Sun Mar 16 21:51:30 2008
From: ftg at roadrunner.com (Frank Griffin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:51:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <47DD801C.2060802@roadrunner.com>
References: <PC176020080110124235004663ed0351@msapiro>
	<47DD801C.2060802@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <47DD8852.80209@roadrunner.com>

Frank Griffin wrote:
>
> In this case, the list owner is frank.griffin at selectbs.com and the
> poster is ftg at roadrunner.com . It seems to me that this ought to be
> WebData Project Discussion <webdata at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com> .
>
> Did I miss a step ? What can I do to correct this ?
Addenda:  I set up a new list on the same host with ftg at roadrunner.com
as the owner and as a subscriber, and sent a post from
ftg at roadrunner.com to the list.

When ftg at roadrunner.com received the copy of the post, the headers were:

From: Frank Griffin <ftg at roadrunner.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US;
rv:1.8.1.12) Gecko/20071128 SeaMonkey/1.1.8
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: frank.griffin at selectbs.com
Subject: [Ftgtest] test
X-BeenThere: ftgtest at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: frank.griffin at selectbs.com
List-Id: <ftgtest.ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com>
List-Unsubscribe:
<http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/mailman/listinfo/ftgtest>,
<mailto:ftgtest-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/pipermail/ftgtest>
List-Post: <mailto:ftgtest at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ftgtest-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe:
<http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/mailman/listinfo/ftgtest>,
<mailto:ftgtest-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Errors-To: frank.griffin at selectbs.com
Sender: Frank Griffin <ftg314159 at gmail.com>


The interesting thing is that the "frank.griffin at selectbs.com" address,
while the administrator address for the mailman server which previously
owned all of the transported lists on the original host, doesn't figure
*anywhere* in the definition of the ftgtest list on the new host.  The
ftgtest list has a null description, which is why its references here
aren't of the form "xxxxx<frank.griffin at selectbs.com>" as in the
previous example.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 16 21:51:46 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:51:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <47DD801C.2060802@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031613514600469fb3e13c@msapiro>

Frank Griffin wrote:
>
>Thanks for the reply.  I've recently gotten back to this and wanted to
>post my results.
>
>In addition to the steps you posted, I needed to run "withlist -a -l -r
>fix_url".
>
>However, I have one anomaly that still needs resolution:
>
>All of the lists I moved had the option set to reply to the list (yes, I
>know), and they show up this way when I display them in the admin UI. 
>However, when I post to them, the post mails arrive with a reply-to of
>the poster and the list description linked to an email address of the
>list owner, e.g.
>
>List-Id: WebData Project Discussion <webdata.ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com>
>List-Unsubscribe:
><http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/mailman/listinfo/webdata>,
>    <mailto:webdata-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=unsubscribe>
>List-Archive: <http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/pipermail/webdata>
>List-Post: <mailto:webdata at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:webdata-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=help>
>List-Subscribe:
><http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/mailman/listinfo/webdata>,
>    <mailto:webdata-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=subscribe>
>Reply-To: ftg at roadrunner.com,
>              WebData Project Discussion <frank.griffin at selectbs.com>
>
>
>In this case, the list owner is frank.griffin at selectbs.com and the
>poster is ftg at roadrunner.com .  It seems to me that this ought to be
>WebData Project Discussion <webdata at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com> .
>
>Did I miss a step ?  What can I do to correct this ?


I'm not sure what's happening in total, but the 'ftg at roadrunner.com' is
your own Reply-To: from the incoming post. The default is to add any
additional reply-to address to that. If you want it removed, you need
to set first_strip_reply_to to Yes.

As far as the rest of it is concerned, I don't understand what's
happening. If reply_goes_to_list is set to This list, what is put in
Reply-To: should just be the list posting address
<webdata at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com>. I don't know where the list
description and owner address are coming from.

Is there anything in reply_to_address (although it doesn't seem that
this could do what you see anyway)?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 16 22:02:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:02:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <47DD8852.80209@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803161402130234e4684077@msapiro>

Frank Griffin wrote:

>Addenda:  I set up a new list on the same host with ftg at roadrunner.com
>as the owner and as a subscriber, and sent a post from
>ftg at roadrunner.com to the list.
>
>When ftg at roadrunner.com received the copy of the post, the headers were:
>
>From: Frank Griffin <ftg at roadrunner.com>
>User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US;
>rv:1.8.1.12) Gecko/20071128 SeaMonkey/1.1.8
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>To: frank.griffin at selectbs.com


???


>Subject: [Ftgtest] test
>X-BeenThere: ftgtest at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: frank.griffin at selectbs.com
>List-Id: <ftgtest.ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com>
>List-Unsubscribe:
><http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/mailman/listinfo/ftgtest>,
><mailto:ftgtest-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=unsubscribe>
>List-Archive: <http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/pipermail/ftgtest>
>List-Post: <mailto:ftgtest at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ftgtest-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=help>
>List-Subscribe:
><http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/mailman/listinfo/ftgtest>,
><mailto:ftgtest-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=subscribe>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Errors-To: frank.griffin at selectbs.com
>Sender: Frank Griffin <ftg314159 at gmail.com>


In a standard Mailman, Errors-To: and Sender: would both be
<ftgtest-bounces at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com> as would the envelope
sender (possibly visible in a Return-Path: header).


>The interesting thing is that the "frank.griffin at selectbs.com" address,
>while the administrator address for the mailman server which previously
>owned all of the transported lists on the original host, doesn't figure
>*anywhere* in the definition of the ftgtest list on the new host.


Why is it the To: address of the post?

What mailman is this? I know it claims to be 2.1.9, but where does it
come from and in what ways does it differ from the Mailman project's
2.1.9 distribution?


>The
>ftgtest list has a null description, which is why its references here
>aren't of the form "xxxxx<frank.griffin at selectbs.com>" as in the
>previous example.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ftg at roadrunner.com  Sun Mar 16 22:07:40 2008
From: ftg at roadrunner.com (Frank Griffin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:07:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008031613514600469fb3e13c@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008031613514600469fb3e13c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47DD8C1C.9060003@roadrunner.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I'm not sure what's happening in total, but the 'ftg at roadrunner.com' is
> your own Reply-To: from the incoming post. The default is to add any
> additional reply-to address to that. If you want it removed, you need
> to set first_strip_reply_to to Yes.
>
> As far as the rest of it is concerned, I don't understand what's
> happening. If reply_goes_to_list is set to This list, what is put in
> Reply-To: should just be the list posting address
> <webdata at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com>. I don't know where the list
> description and owner address are coming from.
>
> Is there anything in reply_to_address (although it doesn't seem that
> this could do what you see anyway)?
>
>   
It wasn't the addition of ftg at roadrunner.com in the reply-to that made
me curious (I can see that this list does that as well), but the fact
that the second entry has the correct description but the wrong
address.  Referencing my later post, it seems to be getting the address
from somewhere external to the actual list profile.

Where exactly is the authoritative location for these settings ?  I'll
print and post them.

Nothing shows in the UI for an explicit reply-to address, and the option
to use one is not checked.

From ftg at roadrunner.com  Sun Mar 16 22:12:53 2008
From: ftg at roadrunner.com (Frank Griffin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:12:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803161402130234e4684077@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200803161402130234e4684077@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47DD8D55.90108@roadrunner.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Frank Griffin wrote:
>
>   
>> Addenda:  I set up a new list on the same host with ftg at roadrunner.com
>> as the owner and as a subscriber, and sent a post from
>> ftg at roadrunner.com to the list.
>>
>> When ftg at roadrunner.com received the copy of the post, the headers were:
>>
>> From: Frank Griffin <ftg at roadrunner.com>
>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US;
>> rv:1.8.1.12) Gecko/20071128 SeaMonkey/1.1.8
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> To: frank.griffin at selectbs.com
>>     
>
>
> ???
>   

Yeah :-)

>
>   
>> Subject: [Ftgtest] test
>> X-BeenThere: ftgtest at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com
>> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
>> Precedence: list
>> Reply-To: frank.griffin at selectbs.com
>> List-Id: <ftgtest.ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com>
>> List-Unsubscribe:
>> <http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/mailman/listinfo/ftgtest>,
>> <mailto:ftgtest-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=unsubscribe>
>> List-Archive: <http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/pipermail/ftgtest>
>> List-Post: <mailto:ftgtest at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com>
>> List-Help: <mailto:ftgtest-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=help>
>> List-Subscribe:
>> <http://ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com/mailman/listinfo/ftgtest>,
>> <mailto:ftgtest-request at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com?subject=subscribe>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> Errors-To: frank.griffin at selectbs.com
>> Sender: Frank Griffin <ftg314159 at gmail.com>
>>     
>
>
> In a standard Mailman, Errors-To: and Sender: would both be
> <ftgtest-bounces at ftgme2.griffin.selectbs.com> as would the envelope
> sender (possibly visible in a Return-Path: header).
>
>
>   
>> The interesting thing is that the "frank.griffin at selectbs.com" address,
>> while the administrator address for the mailman server which previously
>> owned all of the transported lists on the original host, doesn't figure
>> *anywhere* in the definition of the ftgtest list on the new host.
>>     
>
>
> Why is it the To: address of the post?
>   

You've got me.  I'm assuming that all this stems from some anomaly in
the upgrade that was done of the files copied from the old system.

> What mailman is this? I know it claims to be 2.1.9, but where does it
> come from and in what ways does it differ from the Mailman project's
> 2.1.9 distribution?
>   

It's the Mandriva Cooker (2008.1 RC2) rpm :
mailman-2.1.9-4mdv2008.1.i586.rpm


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 16 22:24:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:24:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <47DD8C1C.9060003@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803161424480000e9e7e9f0@msapiro>

Frank Griffin wrote:
>>   
>It wasn't the addition of ftg at roadrunner.com in the reply-to that made
>me curious (I can see that this list does that as well), but the fact
>that the second entry has the correct description but the wrong
>address.  Referencing my later post, it seems to be getting the address
>from somewhere external to the actual list profile.
>
>Where exactly is the authoritative location for these settings ?  I'll
>print and post them.


In a standard Mailman, I trust the web GUI to display the correct thing
in the three settings under "Reply-To: header munging" on the General
Options page.

If you want to see what's behind that, you can do

  bin/dumpdb lists/webdata/config.pck

and look at the actual values of the three attributes
first_strip_reply_to, reply_goes_to_list and reply_to_address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 16 22:32:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:32:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <47DD8D55.90108@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080316143217045303cebb76@msapiro>

Frank Griffin wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> Why is it the To: address of the post?
>>   
>
>You've got me.  I'm assuming that all this stems from some anomaly in
>the upgrade that was done of the files copied from the old system.


It is clear to me that whatever Mailman this is, it is not the Mailman
I know. I think that is the underlying problem.


>> What mailman is this? I know it claims to be 2.1.9, but where does it
>> come from and in what ways does it differ from the Mailman project's
>> 2.1.9 distribution?
>>   
>
>It's the Mandriva Cooker (2008.1 RC2) rpm :
>mailman-2.1.9-4mdv2008.1.i586.rpm


It appears non-standard in at least a few obvious ways, and I have no
way to know in what others. You might find answers using Mandriva
support resources

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ftg at roadrunner.com  Sun Mar 16 23:12:55 2008
From: ftg at roadrunner.com (Frank Griffin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:12:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803161424480000e9e7e9f0@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200803161424480000e9e7e9f0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47DD9B67.4060504@roadrunner.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Frank Griffin wrote:
>   
>>>   
>>>       
>> It wasn't the addition of ftg at roadrunner.com in the reply-to that made
>> me curious (I can see that this list does that as well), but the fact
>> that the second entry has the correct description but the wrong
>> address.  Referencing my later post, it seems to be getting the address
>>     
> >from somewhere external to the actual list profile.
>   
>> Where exactly is the authoritative location for these settings ?  I'll
>> print and post them.
>>     
>
>
> In a standard Mailman, I trust the web GUI to display the correct thing
> in the three settings under "Reply-To: header munging" on the General
> Options page.
>
> If you want to see what's behind that, you can do
>
>   bin/dumpdb lists/webdata/config.pck
>
> and look at the actual values of the three attributes
> first_strip_reply_to, reply_goes_to_list and reply_to_address.
>
>   
For the webdata list (the ported one):

    'first_strip_reply_to': False,
    'reply_goes_to_list': 1,
    'reply_to_address': '',
 
Outside of the 'passwords', 'members', and 'users'  keys, the following
keys contain 'frank.griffin at selectbs.com':

    'owner': ['frank.griffin at selectbs.com'],

That's it.

For the ftgtest list (created on the new host):

    'first_strip_reply_to': 1,
    'reply_goes_to_list': 1,
    'reply_to_address': '',

and no mention whatever of the address 'frank.griffin at selectbs.com'.

The mailman list contains:

    'first_strip_reply_to': False,
    'reply_goes_to_list': 0,
    'reply_to_address': '',
 
FWIW, there was no lists/mailman directory in the copied files.
 

From ftg at roadrunner.com  Sun Mar 16 23:33:54 2008
From: ftg at roadrunner.com (Frank Griffin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:33:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080316143217045303cebb76@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080316143217045303cebb76@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47DDA052.1030903@roadrunner.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> It appears non-standard in at least a few obvious ways, and I have no
> way to know in what others. You might find answers using Mandriva
> support resources
>
>   
I did before posting here, but found no bug reports there or on Google
which resembled this in any way.

There's always the fallback of getting the source package and examining
it, which I will do if I have to (my RPM skills are somewhat limited),
but I can't imagine that nobody using Mandriva's package would have
noticed this and reported it.  I can't help but think that it's more
probable that this is a porting issue.

I can, and will, do one more test short of pulling apart the RPM.  I'll
do a fresh Mandriva install, create a list, and see if the behavior is
the same.  If it isn't, that should point the finger at the porting.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 16 23:38:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:38:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <47DD9B67.4060504@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803161538320562e46841d2@msapiro>

Frank Griffin wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> If you want to see what's behind that, you can do
>>
>>   bin/dumpdb lists/webdata/config.pck
>>
>> and look at the actual values of the three attributes
>> first_strip_reply_to, reply_goes_to_list and reply_to_address.
>>
>>   
>For the webdata list (the ported one):
>
>    'first_strip_reply_to': False,
>    'reply_goes_to_list': 1,
>    'reply_to_address': '',
> 
>Outside of the 'passwords', 'members', and 'users'  keys, the following
>keys contain 'frank.griffin at selectbs.com':
>
>    'owner': ['frank.griffin at selectbs.com'],


Which in my Mailman says add the list posting address to the Reply-To:,
if any, in the incoming message. Since in your case, it seems to be
adding

   list description <owner email>

This must be some Mandriva 'feature' about which I know nothing.

>For the ftgtest list (created on the new host):
>
>    'first_strip_reply_to': 1,
>    'reply_goes_to_list': 1,
>    'reply_to_address': '',
>
>and no mention whatever of the address 'frank.griffin at selectbs.com'.


Is it possible that you 'resent' an existing mail to the ftgtest list
which had that To: header in it?


>The mailman list contains:
>
>    'first_strip_reply_to': False,
>    'reply_goes_to_list': 0,
>    'reply_to_address': '',
> 
>FWIW, there was no lists/mailman directory in the copied files.


And this just says 'no Reply-To munging', and it is normal that in
moving lists from another installation that you wouldn't move the
mailman list (or in the case of moving from 2.0.x, wouldn't even have
one to move). This list was probably installed by the rpm.

There are other anomalies that I can't explain. Normally, in standard
Mailman, the RFC 2369 List- headers will follow the Reply-To: if any.
That was true of the ftgtest post you posted earlier, but not the
webdata post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Mar 17 00:06:50 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:06:50 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080316143217045303cebb76@msapiro>
References: <47DD8D55.90108@roadrunner.com>
	<PC176020080316143217045303cebb76@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87lk4ii7zp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > It appears non-standard in at least a few obvious ways, and I have no
 > way to know in what others. You might find answers using Mandriva
 > support resources

Mandrake always prided itself on the excellence of its user and admin
interfaces, and did not hesitate to change fundamental behaviors.  In
my experience it was at least as bad as cPanel or Plesk in that sense.

Dunno about Mandriva.  YMMV ...

From zszalbot at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 12:15:09 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:15:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Full personalization and HTML problems
Message-ID: <94136a2c0803170415q543ab611w29cf88724d246d3d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am being told by some subscribers that the HTML emails they receive
via a list run by Mailman contain attachments, although the original
emails have none.

In message body they only have their email address and attached they
have a file called ATT00351.htm and two inline images which were part
of the email. So if they want to see the content, they need to open
the html attachment.

I have now switched to no personalization at all but I am not sure
this will be enough. As for other settings, I do not have anything
added by Mailmain in footers. Scrub attachments of regular delivery
message? is set to No.

What can I do to make sure, the email is presented as is without being
put into attachments? They claim to be using Outlook. As a matter of
fact I also use Outlook at work and do not have such a problem. Thank
you!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From ftg at roadrunner.com  Mon Mar 17 14:28:07 2008
From: ftg at roadrunner.com (Frank Griffin)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:28:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080316172004089003cebd1e@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080316172004089003cebd1e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47DE71E7.8070409@roadrunner.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> But here's the thing: the only occurrence of
>> "frank.griffin at selectbs.com" on the fresh system is a .forward file in
>> /root, /var/spool/postfix, and /home/ftg.  The test message is sent from
>> the 'ftg' ID whose home directory is /home/ftg.
>>
>> Do you guys follow or look at .forward files ?  If not, I can't imagine
>> how mailman is getting hold of this address.
>>     
>
>
> No. MDAs look at .forward files. Mailman doesn't know anything about
> them.
>   

End of mystery. 

My test machines all use a third-party relay server which requires
"From:" to be one of a fixed set of pre-registered values.  I handle
this by using Postfix's "generic" file to rewrite the sender on outbound
messages to the 'frank.griffin' address above.  Apparently, it also
rewrites the "Reply-To:" address. 

Mailman was correctly setting "Reply-To:" to "listname<listaddress>". 
Postfix was rewriting "listaddress" to the fixed address from the
"generic" file, thus causing the error I saw.

This won't affect the machines on which I actually run Mailman for
production, so it appears that the porting procedure (augmented by
fix_url) is successful.  However, this can easily bite anyone who runs a
server-type system at home and needs to conform to the sending policies
of a commercial relay server.

Maybe worth an entry in the FAQ ?

Mark, thanks for your time and help in resolving this.

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Mar 17 15:02:40 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:02:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <47DE71E7.8070409@roadrunner.com>
References: <PC176020080316172004089003cebd1e@msapiro>
	<47DE71E7.8070409@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <47DE7A00.5050108@Media-Brokers.com>

On 3/17/2008, Frank Griffin (ftg at roadrunner.com) wrote:
> My test machines all use a third-party relay server which requires 
> "From:" to be one of a fixed set of pre-registered values. I handle 
> this by using Postfix's "generic" file to rewrite the sender on 
> outbound messages to the 'frank.griffin' address above. Apparently,
> it also rewrites the "Reply-To:" address.

Yuck... why? Worst case is they should require secure smtp auth (with 
TLS), which does NOT require rewriting the headers.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From ftg at roadrunner.com  Mon Mar 17 15:15:24 2008
From: ftg at roadrunner.com (Frank Griffin)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:15:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <47DE7A00.5050108@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <PC176020080316172004089003cebd1e@msapiro>	<47DE71E7.8070409@roadrunner.com>
	<47DE7A00.5050108@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <47DE7CFC.8000105@roadrunner.com>

Charles Marcus wrote:
> On 3/17/2008, Frank Griffin (ftg at roadrunner.com) wrote:
>   
>> My test machines all use a third-party relay server which requires 
>> "From:" to be one of a fixed set of pre-registered values. I handle 
>> this by using Postfix's "generic" file to rewrite the sender on 
>> outbound messages to the 'frank.griffin' address above. Apparently,
>> it also rewrites the "Reply-To:" address.
>>     
>
> Yuck... why? Worst case is they should require secure smtp auth (with 
> TLS), which does NOT require rewriting the headers.
>
>   
It's their billing model.  Most ISPs refuse to support secure SMTP
because of the perceived cost of encryption.  The relayer does, but
charges you twice as much for using TLS (actually, mails/bytes are
billed against your account limit at 2x their value).  But that's
unrelated to...

the fixed-address stuff: they sell allowable addresses in blocks of 15,
probably figuring that if you're representing more than 15 mail
addresses, you're really a business and should be paying more.  A real
nuisance for Linux systems where every daemon and his brother sends mail
with a different "From:" address.

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Mar 17 15:22:05 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:22:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <47DE7CFC.8000105@roadrunner.com>
References: <PC176020080316172004089003cebd1e@msapiro>	<47DE71E7.8070409@roadrunner.com>	<47DE7A00.5050108@Media-Brokers.com>
	<47DE7CFC.8000105@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <47DE7E8D.8010801@Media-Brokers.com>

On 3/17/2008, Frank Griffin (ftg at roadrunner.com) wrote:
> It's their billing model.  Most ISPs refuse to support secure SMTP
> because of the perceived cost of encryption.  The relayer does, but
> charges you twice as much for using TLS (actually, mails/bytes are
> billed against your account limit at 2x their value).  But that's
> unrelated to...

Most ISPs in the US simply allow relaying on their IP blocks...

But, they don't absolutely need to support *secure* smtp auth - basic 
smtp auth would be much better than using and easily forged 'From:' 
header...

I'd find another ISP/3rd party relay service...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From ftg at roadrunner.com  Mon Mar 17 15:33:03 2008
From: ftg at roadrunner.com (Frank Griffin)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:33:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <47DE7E8D.8010801@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <PC176020080316172004089003cebd1e@msapiro>	<47DE71E7.8070409@roadrunner.com>	<47DE7A00.5050108@Media-Brokers.com>	<47DE7CFC.8000105@roadrunner.com>
	<47DE7E8D.8010801@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <47DE811F.5090104@roadrunner.com>

Charles Marcus wrote:
> Most ISPs in the US simply allow relaying on their IP blocks...
>
> But, they don't absolutely need to support *secure* smtp auth - basic 
> smtp auth would be much better than using and easily forged 'From:' 
> header...
>
> I'd find another ISP/3rd party relay service...
>
>   
Relaying on their IP blocks isn't the problem.  The problem is laptops
when you travel outside of their IP blocks and still want to run your
system in production mode, i.e. having daemons send email back home. 
That's when they shut you down.  They don't seem to want the risk of
basic SMTP auth being cracked or sniffed, so they just refuse to relay
for anything outside their IP block, period, no matter what.

Since I don't want to have to reconfigure may laptop every time I leave
home, I need the relay service.  Because of that, it's also more
convenient for use on my home machines, since the relayer is more
lenient about what it thinks is spam or oversized mails.  All my systems
pretty much use the same configuration model that way.

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Mar 17 15:51:58 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:51:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <47DE811F.5090104@roadrunner.com>
References: <PC176020080316172004089003cebd1e@msapiro>	<47DE71E7.8070409@roadrunner.com>	<47DE7A00.5050108@Media-Brokers.com>	<47DE7CFC.8000105@roadrunner.com>	<47DE7E8D.8010801@Media-Brokers.com>
	<47DE811F.5090104@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <47DE858E.2040400@Media-Brokers.com>

On 3/17/2008, Frank Griffin (ftg at roadrunner.com) wrote:
> They don't seem to want the risk of basic SMTP auth being cracked or
> sniffed, so they just refuse to relay for anything outside their IP
> block, period, no matter what.

<snip>

> Since I don't want to have to reconfigure may laptop every time I leave
> home, I need the relay service.

I'm confused... above you say that they don't allow relaying from 
outside their network 'no matter what'... then you say you need their 
relay service while outside their IP block...

You appear to be saying that it is when sending from outside their IP 
block that they do this relay filtering based on an easily forged 'From: 
header.

What I'm saying is that it is *much* easier to spook a 'From:' header 
that to sniff/crack an unsecured smtp_auth session. Not that its *hard* 
to sniff a plain text smtp_auth session - just that its harder than 
spoofing a 'From:' header.

Any ISP that doesn't allow the use of TLS for sending while outside 
their networks is not to be trusted, so my original comment stands - I'd 
get another ISP if possible.

This has gone way OT for mailman though... sorry...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From antonioguerrero at cienciasambientales.com  Mon Mar 17 15:31:22 2008
From: antonioguerrero at cienciasambientales.com (Antonio Guerrero)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:31:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lists name caracters
Message-ID: <20080317143130.78B676B70C@mundo.umh.es>

Hi,

 

Greetings from spain.

 

Actually, our lists name includes a dot ?.? in their names (i.e.
list.help at domain.com)

 

In our new hosting, they are unable to configure mailman in order to accept
the ?.? dot character in the list name. If I create a list with a dot in the
name it will be created ok, you can subscribe people, but when we send a
mail to list.help at domain.com it will not be delivered and says:

 

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification
Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:
 list.help at domain.com
Technical details of permanent failure:
PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 13): 550 sorry, no mailbox here by that
name. (#5.7.17)

 

?any idea in orde to solve the problem withs dots?

 

Thanks and sorry about my English.


From ki at knifecenter.com  Mon Mar 17 16:56:55 2008
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:56:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.8
Message-ID: <C4040D07.2D173%ki@knifecenter.com>

I tried starting up my mailman installation this morning (mailmanctl start),
and I got the following message:


****************************************************************************
****************************************************************************

Traceback (most recent call last):
Logging error: <StampedLogger to '/usr/local/mailman/logs/error'>
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 92, in write
    f.write(msg)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/codecs.py", line 444, in write
    return self.writer.write(data)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/codecs.py", line 179, in write
    self.stream.write(data)
IOError: [Errno 28] No space left on device
Original log message:
[Errno 28] No space left on device
  File "./mailmanctl", line 548, in ?
    main()
  File "./mailmanctl", line 390, in main
    lock = acquire_lock(force)
  File "./mailmanctl", line 214, in acquire_lock
    lock = acquire_lock_1(force)
  File "./mailmanctl", line 199, in acquire_lock_1
    lock.lock(0.1)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
    self.__write()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 424, in __write
    fp.close()
IOError: [Errno 28] No space left on device

****************************************************************************
****************************************************************************

One major error I see is that there is no more disk space on the server.
How can I remedy this situation?



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 17 17:08:38 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:08:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lists name caracters
In-Reply-To: <20080317143130.78B676B70C@mundo.umh.es>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031709083807343ddbac24@msapiro>

Antonio Guerrero wrote:
>
>Actually, our lists name includes a dot '.' in their names (i.e.
>list.help at domain.com)
>
'
>In our new hosting, they are unable to configure mailman in order to accept
>the '.' dot character in the list name. If I create a list with a dot in the
>name it will be created ok, you can subscribe people, but when we send a
>mail to list.help at domain.com it will not be delivered and says:
>
>
>This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification
>Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:
> list.help at domain.com
>Technical details of permanent failure:
>PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 13): 550 sorry, no mailbox here by that
>name. (#5.7.17)


This has nothing to do with Mailman per se. This is an issue with the
incoming MTA that receives the mail for delivery to mailman.

There are three possibilities that I see.

The first possibility is that list creation requires a manual 'alias'
installation by the host and they have not done that, and the problem
has nothing to do with the '.', but rather is due to this being a new
list and the mail delivery aliases for it not being installed.

The second possibility is that they have some automated way of
installing aliases or recognizing list names which is confused by the
'.'.

The third possibility is the MTA is configured to treat a '.' in the
local part in some special way.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ftg at roadrunner.com  Mon Mar 17 17:17:51 2008
From: ftg at roadrunner.com (Frank Griffin)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:17:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <47DE858E.2040400@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <PC176020080316172004089003cebd1e@msapiro>	<47DE71E7.8070409@roadrunner.com>	<47DE7A00.5050108@Media-Brokers.com>	<47DE7CFC.8000105@roadrunner.com>	<47DE7E8D.8010801@Media-Brokers.com>	<47DE811F.5090104@roadrunner.com>
	<47DE858E.2040400@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <47DE99AF.1030002@roadrunner.com>

Charles Marcus wrote:
> I'm confused... above you say that they don't allow relaying from 
> outside their network 'no matter what'... then you say you need their 
> relay service while outside their IP block...
>   

The ISP and the third-party relayer are two different companies.  I need
the relay service because the ISP won't relay from outside their own
block.  The relayer doesn't have an IP block; you sign up, get an ID,
pay, and do basic auth SMTP from anywhere.

> You appear to be saying that it is when sending from outside their IP 
> block that they do this relay filtering based on an easily forged 'From: 
> header.
>   

No, they use basic auth.

> Any ISP that doesn't allow the use of TLS for sending while outside 
> their networks is not to be trusted, so my original comment stands - I'd 
> get another ISP if possible.
>   
Unfortunately, in the US, if you want cable (as opposed to satellite or
DSL), you are at the mercy of whichever cable ISP owns the fiber to your
house.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 17 17:25:07 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:25:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.8
In-Reply-To: <C4040D07.2D173%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031709250702812ba8a400@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:
>
>One major error I see is that there is no more disk space on the server.
>How can I remedy this situation?


Buy a bigger disk. :-(

Seriously, this is an OS question, not a Mailman question.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ki at knifecenter.com  Mon Mar 17 17:43:19 2008
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:43:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.8
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008031709250702812ba8a400@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C40417E7.2D192%ki@knifecenter.com>

>> 
>> One major error I see is that there is no more disk space on the server.
>> How can I remedy this situation?
> 
> 
> Buy a bigger disk. :-(
> 
> Seriously, this is an OS question, not a Mailman question.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

The weird thing is that until this Friday, there was approximately 70-80%
free space on the 75GB partition.

I know this is not a mailman question, but how should I go about looking for
files that may have suddenly taken up all that disk space.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!



From ki at knifecenter.com  Mon Mar 17 17:52:06 2008
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:52:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.8
In-Reply-To: <C40417E7.2D192%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <C40419F6.2D197%ki@knifecenter.com>

>>> One major error I see is that there is no more disk space on the server.
>>> How can I remedy this situation?
>> 
>> 
>> Buy a bigger disk. :-(
>> 
>> Seriously, this is an OS question, not a Mailman question.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>> 
> 
> The weird thing is that until this Friday, there was approximately 70-80%
> free space on the 75GB partition.
> 
> I know this is not a mailman question, but how should I go about looking for
> files that may have suddenly taken up all that disk space.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> 
OK. What if I installed a second hard drive.
How easy is it to tell mailman and other programs to use the second hard
drive?

Or, would it be easier/better to "clone" the linux install from the current
hard drive to a different, bigger hard drive? 



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 17 18:06:04 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:06:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.8
In-Reply-To: <C40417E7.2D192%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031710060409536998f21d@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:
>
>The weird thing is that until this Friday, there was approximately 70-80%
>free space on the 75GB partition.
>
>I know this is not a mailman question, but how should I go about looking for
>files that may have suddenly taken up all that disk space.

Tools like du and find with the -mtime and/or -size tests may help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 17 18:11:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:11:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.8
In-Reply-To: <C40419F6.2D197%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031710111701405be5051d@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:
>> 
>OK. What if I installed a second hard drive.
>How easy is it to tell mailman and other programs to use the second hard
>drive?


You'd have to copy the current partition to the new drive and then
umount the old partition and mount the new one.


>Or, would it be easier/better to "clone" the linux install from the current
>hard drive to a different, bigger hard drive? 


Maybe.

But, if I where you, I'd try to find out where the 55-60 GB of free
space went.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 17 18:31:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:31:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Full personalization and HTML problems
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0803170415q543ab611w29cf88724d246d3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803171031500750635145c0@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>I am being told by some subscribers that the HTML emails they receive
>via a list run by Mailman contain attachments, although the original
>emails have none.
>
>In message body they only have their email address and attached they
>have a file called ATT00351.htm and two inline images which were part
>of the email. So if they want to see the content, they need to open
>the html attachment.


Something is adding a mime part to the front of the message. This could
be a Mailman msg_header (if msg_header is 'empty', make sure it is
really empty and not just 'blank'), or it could be something (like a
disclaimer) added by any MTA/MDA the message passed through on the way
to the recipient.


>I have now switched to no personalization at all but I am not sure
>this will be enough. As for other settings, I do not have anything
>added by Mailmain in footers. Scrub attachments of regular delivery
>message? is set to No.


Personalization is not doing it unless it is triggering something
outside of Mailman which is unlikely.

msg_header it the only Mailman setting which will do this in Mailman.


>What can I do to make sure, the email is presented as is without being
>put into attachments? They claim to be using Outlook. As a matter of
>fact I also use Outlook at work and do not have such a problem. Thank
>you!


Make sure that msg_header and msg_footer are empty. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zszalbot at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 18:37:28 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:37:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Full personalization and HTML problems
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803171031500750635145c0@msapiro>
References: <94136a2c0803170415q543ab611w29cf88724d246d3d@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200803171031500750635145c0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0803171037h3937046dv1efff0a6b85a08a4@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

2008/3/17, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>  >
>  >I am being told by some subscribers that the HTML emails they receive
>  >via a list run by Mailman contain attachments, although the original
>  >emails have none.
>  >
>  >In message body they only have their email address and attached they
>  >have a file called ATT00351.htm and two inline images which were part
>  >of the email. So if they want to see the content, they need to open
>  >the html attachment.
>
>
>
> Something is adding a mime part to the front of the message. This could
>  be a Mailman msg_header (if msg_header is 'empty', make sure it is
>  really empty and not just 'blank'), or it could be something (like a
>  disclaimer) added by any MTA/MDA the message passed through on the way
>  to the recipient.
>
>
>
>  >I have now switched to no personalization at all but I am not sure
>  >this will be enough. As for other settings, I do not have anything
>  >added by Mailmain in footers. Scrub attachments of regular delivery
>  >message? is set to No.
>
>
>
> Personalization is not doing it unless it is triggering something
>  outside of Mailman which is unlikely.
>
>  msg_header it the only Mailman setting which will do this in Mailman.

I did have %(user_address)s in full personalization which I now
changed to no personalization and removed the string. I hope this
helps. Thanks!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From jc.bedier at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 18:46:44 2008
From: jc.bedier at gmail.com (Jean-Christian BEDIER)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:46:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix-to-mailman problem
Message-ID: <97699e7b0803171046u5b2bf85by253a4cac27af06f0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,

I have some problem with mailman on debian sarge.

When i try to send mail to lists, i can see in my mail.log the following
message:

Mar 17 18:34:01 box postfix/pipe[374]: 312F06A0051: to=<ml at lists.ml.com>,
relay=mailman, delay=1105, delays=1105/0.14/0/0.07, dsn=4.3.0,
status=deferred (temporary failure. Command output:
exceptions.OSError[Errno 2] No such file or directory Line 152 )

This message regards my postfix-to-mailman.py script and line 152 contain
the following:

# cat -n postfix-to-mailman.py

   150  if __name__ == '__main__':
   151      try:
   152          main()
   153      except SystemExit, argument:

i find it very strange, maybe someone can help me? i'm gonna be crazy :(

Thanks for your help !

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 17 18:55:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:55:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Full personalization and HTML problems
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0803171037h3937046dv1efff0a6b85a08a4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031710553204065be50636@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>I did have %(user_address)s in full personalization which I now
>changed to no personalization and removed the string. I hope this
>helps. Thanks!


If you had a msg_header and removed it, that will help. The fact that
the header had personalized information is not relevant to this issue.

Also, with Full Personalization, it would seem there is no need to put
%(user_address)s in msg_header as the address is already in the To:
header of the message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Mon Mar 17 18:59:48 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:59:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fetchmail with gmail to mailman
Message-ID: <a062309c5c4045f38706b@[192.168.33.3]>

Hi all,

I was hoping to not have to ask this, but I'm stumped.

I'm setting up fetchmail to pull mail from a Gmail  account (taking 
advantage of their spam filtering) and dump it into mailman.  That 
way I can avoid opening up Postfix as a POP, and just use it for the 
SMTP out portion (which appears to be working fine).

In fetchmailrc I have:

poll <http://pop.gmail.com>pop.gmail.com with protocol POP3 port 995 
username 
"<mailto:testlist at austinzencenter.com>testlist at austinzencenter.com" 
there with password "xxxxxxxx" is "mailman" here and options ssl 
sslcertck  sslcertpath  /usr/local/certs mda "/usr/local/mailman post 
testlist" set daemon 60

Let me know if I should be asking this on a fetchmail list instead, 
but I think the part where i'm stuck is with the

	mda "/usr/local/mailman post testlist"

When I run this manually instead of as a daemon, it appears to be 
looking for the mailman app, not the folder.  Where should I be 
pointing that?  This is a standard 2.1.9 install from source code 
into /usr/local/mailman.

And as long as I'm asking, do I really need the "sslcertck 
sslcertpath  /usr/local/certs" part in there?  The post I based my 
poll on at 
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg29811.html> 
didn't have that, but other instructions I found elsewhere relating 
specifically to Gmail did, so I figured I'd be safe and include it.

Thanks for
-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From zszalbot at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 19:06:46 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:06:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Full personalization and HTML problems
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008031710553204065be50636@msapiro>
References: <94136a2c0803171037h3937046dv1efff0a6b85a08a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602008031710553204065be50636@msapiro>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0803171106g3f97fef6vce88c49f580fc7e@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

2008/3/17, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>  >
>  >I did have %(user_address)s in full personalization which I now
>  >changed to no personalization and removed the string. I hope this
>  >helps. Thanks!
>
>
>
> If you had a msg_header and removed it, that will help. The fact that
>  the header had personalized information is not relevant to this issue.
>
>  Also, with Full Personalization, it would seem there is no need to put
>  %(user_address)s in msg_header as the address is already in the To:
>  header of the message.

Not sure why I have always thought that %(user_address)s is required
by the full personalization option. Thanks Mark - this is probably
solving the issue!

Thank you!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Mon Mar 17 19:08:08 2008
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:08:08 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.8
In-Reply-To: <C40417E7.2D192%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <200803171808.m2HI88Zp003614@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Ki Song has said:
> >> 
> >> One major error I see is that there is no more disk space on the server.
> >> How can I remedy this situation?
> > 
> > Buy a bigger disk. :-(
> > 
> > Seriously, this is an OS question, not a Mailman question.
> > -- 
> > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> 
> The weird thing is that until this Friday, there was approximately 70-80%
> free space on the 75GB partition.
> 
> I know this is not a mailman question, but how should I go about looking for
> files that may have suddenly taken up all that disk space.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> 
I'd suggest using a few of the handy Unix tools that have been around
since AT&T was inventing it.

df and du on appropriate directories and with appropriate flags.
ls -ltr will show you what's recent in a hurry.
find -size -newer -type f to look for recent big files.  
fine -name core to find core files.
Where are your /tmp files located and what's in them?
top will find you processes that may be running out of control.

I doubt that suddenly filling up a 75GB partition has anything to do
with Mailman.  You've got basic system administration issues.  
Has someone hacked your system and installed a rootkit?

Hank

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 17 19:18:29 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:18:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fetchmail with gmail to mailman
In-Reply-To: <a062309c5c4045f38706b@[192.168.33.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803171118290046938da48b@msapiro>

billc wrote:
>
>Let me know if I should be asking this on a fetchmail list instead, 
>but I think the part where i'm stuck is with the
>
>	mda "/usr/local/mailman post testlist"
>
>When I run this manually instead of as a daemon, it appears to be 
>looking for the mailman app, not the folder.  Where should I be 
>pointing that?  This is a standard 2.1.9 install from source code 
>into /usr/local/mailman.


You should be pointing at the wrapper

  mda "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist"


>And as long as I'm asking, do I really need the "sslcertck 
>sslcertpath  /usr/local/certs" part in there?  The post I based my 
>poll on at 
><http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg29811.html> 
>didn't have that, but other instructions I found elsewhere relating 
>specifically to Gmail did, so I figured I'd be safe and include it.


I can't answer that definitively, but pop3 access to gmail is via ssl.
Whether fetchmail needs to get the certificate info explicitly or not,
I don't know, but I suspect it could be in a .fetchmailrc or might
default to something that works.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From yangmivolunteers at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 11:51:08 2008
From: yangmivolunteers at gmail.com (=?gb2312?B?QmlsbCBZYW5nICjR7sPZKQ==?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:51:08 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] We need a mail-list
Message-ID: <001601c8881c$d18dc490$ea06430a@arraybill>

Hi all,

We are a group of volunteers in China, we need a mail-list to share information.

We will be really appreciate if you supply us a long-term free mail-list.
 
Best Regards!
 
Yours sincerely,
Bill Yang

From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Mon Mar 17 20:06:09 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:06:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fetchmail with gmail to mailman
Message-ID: <a062309c8c404718bbbdf@[192.168.33.3]>

At 11:18 AM -0700 3/17/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>billc wrote:
>>
>>Let me know if I should be asking this on a fetchmail list instead,
>>but I think the part where i'm stuck is with the
>>
>>	mda "/usr/local/mailman post testlist"
>>
>>When I run this manually instead of as a daemon, it appears to be
>>looking for the mailman app, not the folder.  Where should I be
>>pointing that?  This is a standard 2.1.9 install from source code
>>into /usr/local/mailman.
>
>
>You should be pointing at the wrapper
>
>   mda "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist"
>

I'm still getting

	/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman is a directory

Which it is.  An empty one, at that.


-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Mon Mar 17 20:48:19 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:48:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fetchmail with gmail to mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803171203420656f7b9571a@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200803171203420656f7b9571a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a062309c9c4047601c7ca@[192.168.33.3]>

At 12:03 PM -0700 3/17/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>  >I'm still getting
>>
>>	/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman is a directory
>>
>>Which it is.  An empty one, at that.
>
>
>It shouldn't be. It should be an executable binary something like
>
>[gpc at sbh16 ~]$ ls -l /usr/local/mailman/mail
>total 20
>-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 16804 Mar 13 16:59 mailman*
>[gpc at sbh16 ~]$
>
>If it isn't, something went wrong in your configure - make install or
>you specified --exec-prefix other than /usr/local/mailman to configure.
>

No, no --exec-prefix, and I don't see any glaring errors in the 
install log.  Some permissions issues on language files was pretty 
much all.

But I'll try again, just to make sure.
-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 17 20:53:02 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:53:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] We need a mail-list
In-Reply-To: <001601c8881c$d18dc490$ea06430a@arraybill>
References: <001601c8881c$d18dc490$ea06430a@arraybill>
Message-ID: <47DECC1E.1040209@msapiro.net>

Bill Yang wrote:
> 
> We are a group of volunteers in China, we need a mail-list to share information.
> 
> We will be really appreciate if you supply us a long-term free mail-list.


The Mailman project provides Free Open Source Software for managing 
mailing lists. We do not provide mail list hosting, however see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp> 
for some links.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 17 20:58:41 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:58:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fetchmail with gmail to mailman
In-Reply-To: <a062309c9c4047601c7ca@[192.168.33.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803171258410187e4684064@msapiro>

billc wrote:
>
>No, no --exec-prefix, and I don't see any glaring errors in the 
>install log.  Some permissions issues on language files was pretty 
>much all.
>
>But I'll try again, just to make sure.


It should be enough to just run 'make install' in the unpack src/
directory (or maybe just copy the built 'mailman' executable from
there to /usr/local/mailman/mail/ after 'rmdir
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman', but what else is missing?)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Mon Mar 17 23:55:02 2008
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:55:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam backscatter: Which aliases to remove
Message-ID: <5020A0AE808F096206D47EE5@[10.0.0.14]>

I want to remove aliases from my mailman installation to avoid spam 
backscatter. Which aliases do I absolutely need?

Here's a list from mm-handler:

@ValidActions = qw(admin bounces confirm join leave
                   owner request subscribe unsubscribe);


From jacqui at spitfire.com.au  Tue Mar 18 00:42:51 2008
From: jacqui at spitfire.com.au (Jacqui Owen)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:42:51 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalising Content
Message-ID: <001e01c88888$9d73a230$2901a8c0@jac>

Hi All,
 
I am hoping someone can help, one of our customers would like to send out
emails where the content is personally addressed. e.g Dear "Jacqui". I have
searched the FAQ but am probably using wrong terminology. If someone could
point me in the right direction it would be appreciated.
 
Cheers
Jacqui
 
 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 18 01:33:59 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:33:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalising Content
In-Reply-To: <001e01c88888$9d73a230$2901a8c0@jac>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031717335906876abd83aa@msapiro>

Jacqui Owen wrote:
> 
>I am hoping someone can help, one of our customers would like to send out
>emails where the content is personally addressed. e.g Dear "Jacqui". I have
>searched the FAQ but am probably using wrong terminology. If someone could
>point me in the right direction it would be appreciated.


Mailman doesn't personalize the body of messages.

Mailman can add a header and/or footer to the message which can contain
personalized information, but this may cause more problems than it
solves.

In addition, Mailman can personalize the To: header of the message.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.015.htp>
for information about personalization options.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp
for a discussion of some of the issues with message headers and
footers, and also see the thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-March/060837.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 18 02:53:53 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:53:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam backscatter: Which aliases to remove
In-Reply-To: <5020A0AE808F096206D47EE5@[10.0.0.14]>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031718535306256abd8366@msapiro>

Kenneth Porter wrote:

>I want to remove aliases from my mailman installation to avoid spam 
>backscatter. Which aliases do I absolutely need?
>
>Here's a list from mm-handler:
>
>@ValidActions = qw(admin bounces confirm join leave
>                   owner request subscribe unsubscribe);


You do not "absolutely" need any of these in the sense that you can
post to a list and receive posts without them. However most are
"useful"

You do not need 'admin'. It is a deprecated address from 2.0.x and is a
synonym for bounces.

'bounces' and 'owner' do not backscatter and without them, there will
be no automated bounce processing and some owner notifications from
Mailman won't be deliverable, so I wouldn't remove those.

Email messages from Mailman requesting confirmation for various things
are sent from the -request address with subject "confirm xxxxxx" or
from the -confirm address with a suffix of +xxxxxx (where xxxxxx is
the confirmation token) so that various confirmation request emails
can just be replied to. If you don't change all the templates for
these messages to remove the "reply to this email" part, you need
these addresses. Also, the -request address is mentioned in the RFC
2369 List-Unsubscribe, List-Help and List-Subscribe headers.

'join' and 'leave' are synonyms for 'subscribe' and 'unsubscribe'. Jo
Rhett would say you don't need any of these because nearly everyone
uses the web. He might also say you don't need/want 'request' and
'confirm'.
I wouldn't go that far. This is controversial stuff. There's no one
size fits all answer.

Also consider that Jo Rhett's original proposal was to not create
aliases. This is different from the mm-handler approach.

If an alias is missing, the mail for that address will be rejected at
SMTP time. This is good for spam. It is also OK for a legitimate mail
because the sender knows it wasn't delivered.

In the mm-handler case, mail for these addresses is silently discarded.
This is also OK for spam, but not so good for legitimate mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Tue Mar 18 03:10:30 2008
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:10:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam backscatter: Which aliases to remove
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008031718535306256abd8366@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008031718535306256abd8366@msapiro>
Message-ID: <CE35F1FC0FBFA1B394AF29F9@[10.0.0.14]>

--On Monday, March 17, 2008 6:53 PM -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 
wrote:

> 'join' and 'leave' are synonyms for 'subscribe' and 'unsubscribe'. Jo
> Rhett would say you don't need any of these because nearly everyone
> uses the web. He might also say you don't need/want 'request' and
> 'confirm'.
> I wouldn't go that far. This is controversial stuff. There's no one
> size fits all answer.

Ok, thanks. It sounds like I can safely prune admin, subscribe, 
unsubscribe, join, and leave. That leaves bounces, confirm, owner, and 
request, which I can tolerate dealing with manually.

From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Tue Mar 18 03:14:11 2008
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:14:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalising Content
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008031717335906876abd83aa@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008031717335906876abd83aa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <28D16903C4A59DD00FF068F6@[10.0.0.14]>

--On Monday, March 17, 2008 5:33 PM -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 
wrote:

> In addition, Mailman can personalize the To: header of the message.
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.015.htp>
> for information about personalization options.

The use of the subject prefix is the subject of a common flame war in many 
lists, so it would be nice if that could be personalized.

See:

<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=350103&aid=1104433&group_id=103>


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 18 04:21:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:21:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalising Content
In-Reply-To: <28D16903C4A59DD00FF068F6@[10.0.0.14]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803172021340937e468434b@msapiro>

Kenneth Porter wrote:
>
>The use of the subject prefix is the subject of a common flame war in many 
>lists, so it would be nice if that could be personalized.
>
>See:
>
><https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=350103&aid=1104433&group_id=103>


See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2008-March/019912.html>
for my thoughts on how you could do this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 18 05:12:11 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:12:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix-to-mailman problem
In-Reply-To: <97699e7b0803171046u5b2bf85by253a4cac27af06f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080317211211046805cc26bf@msapiro>

Jean-Christian BEDIER wrote:
>
>I have some problem with mailman on debian sarge.
>
>When i try to send mail to lists, i can see in my mail.log the following
>message:
>
>Mar 17 18:34:01 box postfix/pipe[374]: 312F06A0051: to=<ml at lists.ml.com>,
>relay=mailman, delay=1105, delays=1105/0.14/0/0.07, dsn=4.3.0,
>status=deferred (temporary failure. Command output:
>exceptions.OSError[Errno 2] No such file or directory Line 152 )
>
>This message regards my postfix-to-mailman.py script and line 152 contain
>the following:
>
># cat -n postfix-to-mailman.py
>
>   150  if __name__ == '__main__':
>   151      try:
>   152          main()
>   153      except SystemExit, argument:
>
>i find it very strange, maybe someone can help me? i'm gonna be crazy :(


Apparently, for reasons unknown to me, Debian distributes
postfix-to-mailman.py (and apparently not even the latest from
<http://www.gurulabs.com/files/postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py>). This
package is neither distributed nor supported by the Mailman project.
For my thoughts on using it, see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/055103.html>.

In any case, you might have more success taking your
postfix-to-mailman.py support questions to Debian.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Tue Mar 18 06:55:31 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:55:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fetchmail with gmail to mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803171258410187e4684064@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200803171258410187e4684064@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a062309d7c405084b1135@[192.168.33.3]>

At 12:58 PM -0700 3/17/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>billc wrote:
>>
>>No, no --exec-prefix, and I don't see any glaring errors in the
>>install log.  Some permissions issues on language files was pretty
>>much all.
>>
>>But I'll try again, just to make sure.
>
>
>It should be enough to just run 'make install' in the unpack src/
>directory (or maybe just copy the built 'mailman' executable from
>there to /usr/local/mailman/mail/ after 'rmdir
>/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman', but what else is missing?)
>

Right.  So probably safer to reinstall.  Which I did.  That appears 
to have repaired the problem of  /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman 
previously being a directory.

Now when attempting to create the original 'mailman' list, i'm getting

	illegal name mailman at postfix

despite having the same stuff in default.py and mm_cfg.py as 
previously (explicitly set to ns2.greenbuilder.com) and even when 
specifying the list name in the newlist command as 
mailman at ns2.greenbuilder.com.  Argh!  What am I missing here?



-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From nick at firstinjax.com  Mon Mar 17 18:20:41 2008
From: nick at firstinjax.com (Nick L)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:20:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] word "bounces" in from address
Message-ID: <01e901c88853$3bc57ac0$b3507040$@com>

New user so be kind.

I know that there is a workaround to remove the word 'bounces" in the from
heading. When you have hosting with some companies that use virtual hosting
plans, you cannot hack the file necessary to remove this, is there another
way to do the following?

 

 

The way it is:

Email comes in from the list and shows   [listname-bounces at listdomain.com]
on behalf of member...

 

The way it would be nice if it was:

[listname at listdomain.com] as the from, or even with the on behalf of, just
not the word "bounces" in the address.

 

Is there a way to accomplish this if you cannot have access to the mailman
files and the hosting company won't change it?

 

Worth a shot.

 


From attila at kinali.ch  Tue Mar 18 10:33:58 2008
From: attila at kinali.ch (Attila Kinali)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:33:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] word "bounces" in from address
In-Reply-To: <01e901c88853$3bc57ac0$b3507040$@com>
References: <01e901c88853$3bc57ac0$b3507040$@com>
Message-ID: <20080318103358.b4f45557.attila@kinali.ch>

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:20:41 -0400
"Nick L" <nick at firstinjax.com> wrote:

> I know that there is a workaround to remove the word 'bounces" in the from
> heading. When you have hosting with some companies that use virtual hosting
> plans, you cannot hack the file necessary to remove this, is there another
> way to do the following?
> The way it is:
> 
> Email comes in from the list and shows   [listname-bounces at listdomain.com]
> on behalf of member...
>
> The way it would be nice if it was:
> 
> [listname at listdomain.com] as the from, or even with the on behalf of, just
> not the word "bounces" in the address.

If i understand you correctly, you want the envelope-from
to be the same as the list adress? This wont work as the
envelope-from has to be different so that mailman can
distinguish bounces from regular mails. Also this should
never be a problem as the only place where people see
the envelope-from is in the headers and unless you have
a broken mail client (outlook comes to mind), you'll never
see this field.

			Attila Kinali

-- 
Praised are the Fountains of Shelieth, the silver harp of the waters,
But blest in my name forever this stream that stanched my thirst!
                         -- Deed of Morred

From tom.chance at bioregional.com  Tue Mar 18 12:54:38 2008
From: tom.chance at bioregional.com (Tom Chance)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:54:38 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Theming member options page
Message-ID: <B3F7B7D7EE2B95458161A27945108CF59BAF85@biomail.bioreg.local>

Hello,
 
I'm using the templates to integrate the Mailman pages into our web
site, e.g.:
http://lists.bioregional.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/newsletter
 
Unfortunately some pages don't have templates, they seem hard coded into
the Python code! For example, when you enter your email address to
change subscription options without already being logged in, you get a
page whose contents is included in these files:
 
/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py - header & footer
/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py - contents
 
Is there a cunning trick I'm missing / are there plans to abstract this
out to a template file? Otherwise I'll try putting the "login-unsub" and
password/login buttons directly onto the main listinfo page along with
the email field to see if I can bypass this interim page altogether.
 
Kind regards,
Tom Chance

-- 
BioRegional Development Group, BedZED Centre, 24 Helios Road,
Wallington, SM6 7BZ, UK 
direct. 020 8404 4884 
t. 020 8404 4880 
w. www.bioregional.com <http://www.bioregional.com/>  
Registered charity no. 1041486. A company limited by guarantee.
Registered in England and Wales no. 2973226 

 

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Mar 18 16:04:58 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:04:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] word "bounces" in from address
In-Reply-To: <01e901c88853$3bc57ac0$b3507040$@com>
References: <01e901c88853$3bc57ac0$b3507040$@com>
Message-ID: <200803181504.m2IF406F014546@newbox.eroded.org>

Nick L sent the message below at 10:20 3/17/2008:
>New user so be kind.
>
>I know that there is a workaround to remove the word 'bounces" in the from
>heading. When you have hosting with some companies that use virtual hosting
>plans, you cannot hack the file necessary to remove this, is there another
>way to do the following?
>
>
>
>
>
>The way it is:
>
>Email comes in from the list and shows   [listname-bounces at listdomain.com]
>on behalf of member...
>
>
>
>The way it would be nice if it was:
>
>[listname at listdomain.com] as the from, or even with the on behalf of, just
>not the word "bounces" in the address.
>
>
>
>Is there a way to accomplish this if you cannot have access to the mailman
>files and the hosting company won't change it?
>
>
>
>Worth a shot.
>
>
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

That is not a problem with mailman, that is specifically a problem 
with Outlook (not sure exactly what versions).

More info:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=on+behalf+of&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search 


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 18 16:31:07 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:31:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fetchmail with gmail to mailman
In-Reply-To: <a062309d7c405084b1135@[192.168.33.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803180831070843f83171b2@msapiro>

billc wrote:

>Right.  So probably safer to reinstall.  Which I did.  That appears 
>to have repaired the problem of  /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman 
>previously being a directory.
>
>Now when attempting to create the original 'mailman' list, i'm getting
>
>	illegal name mailman at postfix
>
>despite having the same stuff in default.py and mm_cfg.py as 
>previously (explicitly set to ns2.greenbuilder.com) and even when 
>specifying the list name in the newlist command as 
>mailman at ns2.greenbuilder.com.  Argh!  What am I missing here?


What is DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, either in Defaults.py or overridden in
mm_cfg.py. If it is 'postfix', that is your answer. It must be a fully
qualified domain name.

If that isn't it, what is the exact newlist command or are you using
the GUI, and what is in Defaults.py for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
DEFAULT_URL_HOST, and what is in mm_cfg.py for these and any
add_virtualhost() directives?

If DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST isn't 'postfix', you probably have

add_virtualhost('ns2.greenbuilder.com', 'postfix')

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 18 16:55:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:55:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] word "bounces" in from address
In-Reply-To: <01e901c88853$3bc57ac0$b3507040$@com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803180855580062a24ee538@msapiro>

Nick L wrote:
>
>The way it would be nice if it was:
>
>[listname at listdomain.com] as the from, or even with the on behalf of, just
>not the word "bounces" in the address.
>
> 
>
>Is there a way to accomplish this if you cannot have access to the mailman
>files and the hosting company won't change it?


No.

Well, depending on exactly what you can do on your virtual host, It may
be possible to install your own Mailman, but it's a stretch. It might
be easier to get your users to switch from Outlook.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 18 17:34:04 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:34:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Theming member options page
In-Reply-To: <B3F7B7D7EE2B95458161A27945108CF59BAF85@biomail.bioreg.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803180934040593c0ac7755@msapiro>

Tom Chance wrote:
> 
>Unfortunately some pages don't have templates, they seem hard coded into
>the Python code! For example, when you enter your email address to
>change subscription options without already being logged in, you get a
>page whose contents is included in these files:
> 
>/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py - header & footer
>/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py - contents
> 
>Is there a cunning trick I'm missing / are there plans to abstract this
>out to a template file? Otherwise I'll try putting the "login-unsub" and
>password/login buttons directly onto the main listinfo page along with
>the email field to see if I can bypass this interim page altogether.



I think it would be really difficult to eliminate the options login
paqe completely without hacking the code. You could work around it
when coming from the listinfo page, but what if someone goes to the
options page directly without being logged in?

We are definitely aware of the shortcomings of the current GUI and are
trying to do better for Mailman 2.2.

In the mean time, one thing you can do which involves only a minor code
change is in the Format() method of the Document class in
htmlformat.py, you can insert a stylesheet reference immediately before

            output.append('%s<BODY %s' % (tab, SPACE.join(quals)))

something like

            output.append('<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" '
                          'href="path/to/style.css">')
            output.append('%s<BODY %s' % (tab, SPACE.join(quals)))

This will add the stylesheet reference to all pages except those built
from templates that have their own <head> section.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Tue Mar 18 19:15:13 2008
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:15:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] word "bounces" in from address
In-Reply-To: <01e901c88853$3bc57ac0$b3507040$@com>
References: <01e901c88853$3bc57ac0$b3507040$@com>
Message-ID: <51CDB016C2A307A091A9DC1D@[10.0.0.14]>

--On Monday, March 17, 2008 1:20 PM -0400 Nick L <nick at firstinjax.com> 
wrote:

> I know that there is a workaround to remove the word 'bounces" in the from
> heading.

Just curious, why would someone want to remove "bounces"? Is it a swear 
word in some languages?



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Mar 18 19:40:19 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:40:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] word "bounces" in from address
In-Reply-To: <51CDB016C2A307A091A9DC1D@[10.0.0.14]>
References: <01e901c88853$3bc57ac0$b3507040$@com>
	<51CDB016C2A307A091A9DC1D@[10.0.0.14]>
Message-ID: <200803181839.m2IIdJLw019070@newbox.eroded.org>

Kenneth Porter sent the message below at 11:15 3/18/2008:
>--On Monday, March 17, 2008 1:20 PM -0400 Nick L <nick at firstinjax.com>
>wrote:
>
> > I know that there is a workaround to remove the word 'bounces" in the from
> > heading.
>
>Just curious, why would someone want to remove "bounces"? Is it a swear
>word in some languages?
>
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

This issue has come up a number of times on this list since I have 
been a member. I think it is really a cosmetic thing. It's also 
limited to particular versions of Microsoft Outlook that display the 
 From address as something like:

"From: listname-bounces at example.com on behalf of listmember at example.com"

It's not entirely incorrect for Outlook to do that as it is using the 
envelope-sender information not the actual From: header to display 
that info. The problem is that the relevant RFC document is vague on 
how that should be handled and displayed in the MUA.

Mailman sends outgoing e-mails using the listname-bounces address as 
the envelope-sender to enable proper bounce handling when a delivery 
failure occurs. So the problem comes down to living with this display 
in Outlook or disabling proper bounce handling. Personally, I want 
proper bounce handling and anyone using Outlook that complains to me 
about this is basically told (politely, usually) there is nothing I 
can do about fixing something Microsoft did in their e-mail client so 
they can either live with it or find an e-mail client to their liking.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From bh2 at medicine.wisc.edu  Tue Mar 18 19:59:54 2008
From: bh2 at medicine.wisc.edu (Brian Herold)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:59:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list commands being limited?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008031418480607186416f134@msapiro>
References: <47DA8D54.7D30.003A.0@medicine.wisc.edu>
	<PC17602008031418480607186416f134@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47DFCB53.7D30.003A.0@medicine.wisc.edu>

Hmm, the problem of our lists not being fully populated with members must lie elsewhere.  Thanks for the info on the autoresponse message though!
 
Brian
 
Brian Herold / Internet Applications Developer
Department of Medicine / University of Wisconsin 

>>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 3/14/2008 8:48 PM >>>
Brian Herold wrote:

>We have an automated system that programmatically adds users to lists using the email command functionality (subscribe nodigest address=$theemailaddress).  Though, some of the lists are large and occasionally we get the returned email response:
> 
>"We have received a message from your address `the at sender.com' 
>requesting an automated response from the
>the-list at lists.com mailing list.  We have seen 10 such
>messages from you today.  In order to avoid problems such as mail
>loops between email robots, we will not be sending you any further
>email responses today.  Please try again tomorrow.
> 
>If you believe this message is in error, or if you have any questions,
>please contact the list owner at
>the-list at lists.com." 
> 
>*Note that I renamed the sending and list email addresses.
> 
>Is there some limit that's being triggered causing this message, and what can I do to prevent it?


The limit is MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY which defaults to 10. It can be
set lower or higher, and it can be set to 0 for no limit, but note
that if you set it either to 0 or a large value, your server can be
used a spam reflector or for 'Joe Jobbing'.

Note however that the subscribe command(s) are still processed even
though the 10th one gets the above response and the remainder get no
response.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar 18 20:12:46 2008
From: rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk (Rod@freeserve)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:12:46 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] word "bounces" in from address
References: <01e901c88853$3bc57ac0$b3507040$@com>
	<51CDB016C2A307A091A9DC1D@[10.0.0.14]>
Message-ID: <002c01c8892c$0eff5540$0202a8c0@newbuild>

I have the same problem with my lists.
Until recently we ran on an old version of Mailman.
Users with Outlook saw messages coming from <listname>-admin at domain.net on behalf of
<sender>

Now they see messages coming from <listname>-bounces at domain.net on behalf of <sender>

They understand that a mail bounce is a bad thing, and so this puzzles them.

Pretty well 99% of my users use Outlook (because that is what their employers give them).

It is small consolation to any of us that they are using an inferior mail system . . .

Rod

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Porter" <shiva at sewingwitch.com>
To: <Mailman-Users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] word "bounces" in from address


> --On Monday, March 17, 2008 1:20 PM -0400 Nick L <nick at firstinjax.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I know that there is a workaround to remove the word 'bounces" in the from
> > heading.
>
> Just curious, why would someone want to remove "bounces"? Is it a swear
> word in some languages?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rod%40coate.fsnet.co.uk
>
> Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>



From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Tue Mar 18 21:07:02 2008
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:07:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] word "bounces" in from address
In-Reply-To: <200803181839.m2IIdJLw019070@newbox.eroded.org>
References: <01e901c88853$3bc57ac0$b3507040$@com>
	<51CDB016C2A307A091A9DC1D@[10.0.0.14]>
	<200803181839.m2IIdJLw019070@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <FDE725E0A197B26D8E9A1692@[10.0.0.14]>

--On Tuesday, March 18, 2008 11:40 AM -0700 Dragon 
<dragon at crimson-dragon.com> wrote:

> It's also limited to particular versions of Microsoft Outlook

The most recent version? If not, one can simply say "upgrade your client". 
Either by going to the expensive one or switching to a free one.

(I *am* sympathetic to Outlook users because I see the value in the 
combined Outlook/Exchange groupware app, but if you're going to pay big 
bucks for that facility, you have to accept the compromises it imposes (to 
pure email use) and lay the blame where it belongs.)

From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu  Tue Mar 18 21:19:45 2008
From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Chris Waltham)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:19:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] word "bounces" in from address
In-Reply-To: <002c01c8892c$0eff5540$0202a8c0@newbuild>
References: <01e901c88853$3bc57ac0$b3507040$@com>
	<51CDB016C2A307A091A9DC1D@[10.0.0.14]>
	<002c01c8892c$0eff5540$0202a8c0@newbuild>
Message-ID: <85EB416E-01AD-49F9-90E6-79430ED9CB2F@bowdoin.edu>

On Mar 18, 2008, at 3:12 PM, Rod at freeserve wrote:

> I have the same problem with my lists.
> Until recently we ran on an old version of Mailman.
> Users with Outlook saw messages coming from <listname>-admin at domain.net 
>  on behalf of
> <sender>
>
> Now they see messages coming from <listname>-bounces at domain.net on  
> behalf of <sender>

I just noticed the same thing going from Mailman 2.0.12 to 2.1.9.

Interesting...


Chris

>
>
> They understand that a mail bounce is a bad thing, and so this  
> puzzles them.
>
> Pretty well 99% of my users use Outlook (because that is what their  
> employers give them).
>
> It is small consolation to any of us that they are using an inferior  
> mail system . . .
>
> Rod
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kenneth Porter" <shiva at sewingwitch.com>
> To: <Mailman-Users at python.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 6:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] word "bounces" in from address
>
>
>> --On Monday, March 17, 2008 1:20 PM -0400 Nick L  
>> <nick at firstinjax.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I know that there is a workaround to remove the word 'bounces" in  
>>> the from
>>> heading.
>>
>> Just curious, why would someone want to remove "bounces"? Is it a  
>> swear
>> word in some languages?


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 18 21:43:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:43:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] word "bounces" in from address
In-Reply-To: <85EB416E-01AD-49F9-90E6-79430ED9CB2F@bowdoin.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031813433207816a25f18d@msapiro>

Chris Waltham wrote:

>On Mar 18, 2008, at 3:12 PM, Rod at freeserve wrote:
>
>> I have the same problem with my lists.
>> Until recently we ran on an old version of Mailman.
>> Users with Outlook saw messages coming from <listname>-admin at domain.net 
>>  on behalf of
>> <sender>
>>
>> Now they see messages coming from <listname>-bounces at domain.net on  
>> behalf of <sender>
>
>I just noticed the same thing going from Mailman 2.0.12 to 2.1.9.
>
>Interesting...


Mailman 2.0.x had no automated bounce processing, so the envelope
sender was sent to listname-admin at .. so that the list admin would see
the bounces and be able to react to them manually.

With the advent of automated bounce processing in Mailman 2.1, the
envelope sender is sent to listname-bounces at .. and mail to that
address is processed automatically as a bounce.

In an attempt to avoid confusion, the listname-admin at .. address was
deprecated in favor of listname-owner at ..

None of this is directly relevant to MS Outlook's "on behalf of"
display which uses the Sender: header, not the envelope sender.

Mailman, in an attempt to accommodate non compliant MTAs which might
return DSNs (bounces) to other than the envelope sender, puts the
bounce processing address in the Sender: and Errors-To: headers of the
message. Outlook actually uses the Sender: header and displays

   From: <sender> on behalf of <from>

instead of the

   From: <from>

displayed by most other MUAs.

Mailman's insertion of the bounce processing address in the Sender:
header is not completely wrong, but it probably isn't the best choice.
This will probably change in Mailman 2.2.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 18 22:34:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:34:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list commands being limited?
In-Reply-To: <47DFCB53.7D30.003A.0@medicine.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020080318143413034351c04324@msapiro>

Brian Herold wrote

>Hmm, the problem of our lists not being fully populated with members must lie elsewhere.


I was going to ask if your subscribe_policy involves confirmation
thinking that perhaps the subscribees weren't confirming, but I think
it must not because if it did, the autoresponses would be the
confirmations sent to the users and you presumably wouldn't be seeing
the "last autoresponse" notices.

I did however look back at your original post and I saw the subscribe
command was

  subscribe nodigest address=$theemailaddress

While this works, it doesn't do what you think. I'm going to fix this
for 2.1.10, but currently, the above command will subscribe the user
in the default digest mode with a password of 'nodigest'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fcocquyt at stanford.edu  Tue Mar 18 23:17:43 2008
From: fcocquyt at stanford.edu (Fletcher Cocquyt)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:17:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/SpamAssassin holding for moderation instead
 of discarding spam
In-Reply-To: <C4058AC9.6AAD%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <C4058D97.6AB4%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>


> Hi, I am seeing the same issue from this thread:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg41720.html
> 
> (spamassassin scores the email as spam (> DISCARD THRESHOLD), but mailman
> still holds it for moderation) ? and my moderators are asking ?don?t we have
> spam filters?!?
> 
> Doesn?t
> GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')
> put it first in the pipeline?
> 
> Thanks,
> Fletcher.


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 18 23:38:49 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:38:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/SpamAssassin holding for moderation
 instead of discarding spam
In-Reply-To: <C4058D97.6AB4%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>
References: <C4058D97.6AB4%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <47E04479.7070303@msapiro.net>

Fletcher Cocquyt wrote:
>> Hi, I am seeing the same issue from this thread:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg41720.html
>>
>> (spamassassin scores the email as spam (> DISCARD THRESHOLD), but mailman
>> still holds it for moderation) ? and my moderators are asking "don't we have
>> spam filters?!"
>>
>> Doesn't
>> GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')
>> put it first in the pipeline?

Actually, it puts it second, but that should be good enough.

What are the reason(s) why the messages are held?

Did you restart Mailman after putting the above in mm_cfg.py?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Tue Mar 18 23:41:50 2008
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy D. Knabe)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:41:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests not going out and lots of errors in
	/var/log/cron
Message-ID: <C405933E.11476%knabe@cisx.4j.lane.edu>

My digest messages are not going out, and I am seeing these messages in
/var/log/cron every 5 minutes.

Do I need a home directory for my mailman user?

-Troy


Mar 16 04:04:01 mx2 crond[2083]: (root) CMD (python
/usr/share/rhn/virtualization/poller.py)
Mar 16 04:05:01 mx2 crond[2331]: (CRON) chdir(HOME) failed: (No such file or
directory)
Mar 16 04:05:01 mx2 crond[2331]: (CRON) /no/home (No such file or directory)
Mar 16 04:05:01 mx2 crond[2331]: CRON (mailman) ERROR: failed to open PAM
security session: No such file or directory
Mar 16 04:05:01 mx2 crond[2331]: CRON (mailman) ERROR: cannot set security
context
Mar 16 04:06:01 mx2 crond[2510]: (root) CMD (python
/usr/share/rhn/virtualization/poller.py)
Mar 16 04:08:01 mx2 crond[2919]: (root) CMD (python
/usr/share/rhn/virtualization/poller.py)
Mar 16 04:10:01 mx2 crond[3055]: (root) CMD (python
/usr/share/rhn/virtualization/poller.py)
Mar 16 04:10:01 mx2 crond[3054]: (CRON) chdir(HOME) failed: (No such file or
directory)
Mar 16 04:10:01 mx2 crond[3054]: (CRON) /no/home (No such file or directory)
Mar 16 04:10:01 mx2 crond[3054]: CRON (mailman) ERROR: failed to open PAM
security session: No such file or directory
Mar 16 04:10:01 mx2 crond[3054]: CRON (mailman) ERROR: cannot set security
context
Mar 16 04:12:01 mx2 crond[4150]: (root) CMD (python
/usr/share/rhn/virtualization/poller.py)
Mar 16 04:14:01 mx2 crond[4927]: (root) CMD (python
/usr/share/rhn/virtualization/poller.py)
Mar 16 04:15:01 mx2 crond[5314]: (CRON) chdir(HOME) failed: (No such file or
directory)
Mar 16 04:15:01 mx2 crond[5314]: (CRON) /no/home (No such file or directory)
Mar 16 04:15:01 mx2 crond[5314]: CRON (mailman) ERROR: failed to open PAM
security session: No such file or directory
Mar 16 04:15:01 mx2 crond[5314]: CRON (mailman) ERROR: cannot set security
context
Mar 16 04:16:01 mx2 crond[6066]: (root) CMD (python
/usr/share/rhn/virtualization/poller.py)
Mar 16 04:18:01 mx2 crond[6603]: (root) CMD (python
/usr/share/rhn/virtualization/poller.py)
Mar 16 04:20:01 mx2 crond[6814]: (root) CMD (python
/usr/share/rhn/virtualization/poller.py)
Mar 16 04:20:01 mx2 crond[6813]: (CRON) chdir(HOME) failed: (No such file or
directory)
Mar 16 04:20:01 mx2 crond[6813]: (CRON) /no/home (No such file or directory)
Mar 16 04:20:01 mx2 crond[6813]: CRON (mailman) ERROR: failed to open PAM
security session: No such file or directory
Mar 16 04:20:01 mx2 crond[6813]: CRON (mailman) ERROR: cannot set security
context
Mar 16 04:22:01 mx2 crond[7367]: (root) CMD (run-parts /etc/cron.weekly)
Mar 16 04:22:01 mx2 crond[7370]: (root) CMD (python
/usr/share/rhn/virtualization/poller.py)
Mar 16 04:22:01 mx2 anacron[7372]: Updated timestamp for job `cron.weekly'
to 2008-03-16
Mar 16 04:24:01 mx2 crond[26779]: (root) CMD (python
/usr/share/rhn/virtualization/poller.py)
Mar 16 04:25:01 mx2 crond[26876]: (CRON) chdir(HOME) failed: (No such file
or directory)
Mar 16 04:25:01 mx2 crond[26876]: (CRON) /no/home (No such file or
directory)
Mar 16 04:25:01 mx2 crond[26876]: CRON (mailman) ERROR: failed to open PAM
security session: No such file or directory
Mar 16 04:25:01 mx2 crond[26876]: CRON (mailman) ERROR: cannot set security
context
Mar 16 04:26:01 mx2 crond[27325]: (root) CMD (python
/usr/share/rhn/virtualization/poller.py)
Mar 16 04:28:02 mx2 crond[27552]: (root) CMD (python
/usr/share/rhn/virtualization/poller.py)
Mar 16 04:30:01 mx2 crond[27790]: (root) CMD (python
/usr/share/rhn/virtualization/poller.py)
Mar 16 04:30:01 mx2 crond[27789]: (CRON) chdir(HOME) failed: (No such file
or directory)


From fcocquyt at stanford.edu  Wed Mar 19 00:21:06 2008
From: fcocquyt at stanford.edu (Fletcher Cocquyt)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:21:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/SpamAssassin holding for moderation
 instead of discarding spam
In-Reply-To: <47E04479.7070303@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <C4059C72.6ACE%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>

Hi, forgive me for replying directly ? I?m on the digest version of the list
and saw your reply on the web archive

[Bounced to list - MS]

?Post by non-member to a members-only list? is the reason

If I grep the logs for a sample spam that is held instead of discarded, I
see:

god at irt-smtp-02:logs 4:16pm 129 # egrep 1205885237 /var/log/syslog
Mar 18 15:46:46 irt-smtp-02 sendmail[4047]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
m2IMkcDw004047: from=<d.carrillowd at dyckes.com>, size=1116, class=0,
nrcpts=6, msgid=<1205885237.1549 at dyckes.com>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4,
relay=[151.77.154.252]
Mar 18 15:46:46 irt-smtp-02 spamd[2744]: spamd: checking message
<1205885237.1549 at dyckes.com> for dcs:555
Mar 18 15:46:58 irt-smtp-02 spamd[2744]: spamd: result: Y 11 -
BAYES_99,RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100,RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100,RAZOR2_CHECK,RDNS_
NONE,URIBL_BLACK,URIBL_JP_SURBL,URIBL_SC_SURBL,URIBL_WS_SURBL
scantime=12.2,size=1201,user=dcs,uid=555,required_score=5.0,rhost=localhost,
raddr=127.0.0.1,rport=36976,mid=<1205885237.1549 at dyckes.com>,bayes=1.000000,
autolearn=spam
god at irt-smtp-02:logs 4:16pm 130 #
god at irt-smtp-02:logs 4:16pm 128 # egrep 1205885237 vette
Mar 18 15:46:58 2008 (18680) dcs post from d.carrillowd at dyckes.com held,
message-id=<1205885237.1549 at dyckes.com>: Post by non-member to a
members-only list

I also see this in the mailman error log:
Mar 18 15:45:02 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:45:15 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:45:30 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:45:38 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:45:46 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:46:01 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:46:26 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:46:38 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:46:41 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:46:58 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:47:12 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:47:18 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:47:33 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header

Which is from spamd.py:

god at irt-smtp-02:logs 4:19pm 133 # egrep "not enough"
./Mailman/Handlers/*.py
./Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py:            raise error('not enough words in
response header')


But I?m not sure if that is relevant ? any tips appreciated ? and I?ll
summarize to the list

Thanks,
Fletcher


From fcocquyt at stanford.edu  Wed Mar 19 01:05:44 2008
From: fcocquyt at stanford.edu (Fletcher Cocquyt)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:05:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/SpamAssassin holding for moderation
 instead of discarding spam
In-Reply-To: <C4058D97.6AB4%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <C405A6E8.6AEF%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>

?Post by non-member to a members-only list? is the reason

If I grep the logs for a sample spam that is held instead of discarded, I
see:

god at smtp-02:logs 4:16pm 129 # egrep 1205885237 /var/log/syslog
Mar 18 15:46:46 smtp-02 sendmail[4047]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
m2IMkcDw004047: from=<d.carrillowd at dyckes.com>, size=1116, class=0,
nrcpts=6, msgid=<1205885237.1549 at dyckes.com>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4,
relay=[151.77.154.252]
Mar 18 15:46:46 smtp-02 spamd[2744]: spamd: checking message
<1205885237.1549 at dyckes.com> for dcs:555
Mar 18 15:46:58 smtp-02 spamd[2744]: spamd: result: Y 11 -
BAYES_99,RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100,RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100,RAZOR2_CHECK,RDNS_
NONE,URIBL_BLACK,URIBL_JP_SURBL,URIBL_SC_SURBL,URIBL_WS_SURBL
scantime=12.2,size=1201,user=dcs,uid=555,required_score=5.0,rhost=localhost,
raddr=127.0.0.1,rport=36976,mid=<1205885237.1549 at dyckes.com>,bayes=1.000000,
autolearn=spam

god at smtp-02:logs 4:16pm 128 # egrep 1205885237 vette
Mar 18 15:46:58 2008 (18680) dcs post from d.carrillowd at dyckes.com held,
message-id=<1205885237.1549 at dyckes.com>: Post by non-member to a
members-only list

I also see this in the mailman error log:
Mar 18 15:45:02 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:45:15 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:45:30 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:45:38 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:45:46 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:46:01 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:46:26 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:46:38 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:46:41 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:46:58 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:47:12 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:47:18 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
Mar 18 15:47:33 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header

Which is from spamd.py:

god at smtp-02:logs 4:19pm 133 # egrep "not enough" ../Mailman/Handlers/*.py
../Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py:            raise error('not enough words in
response header')

But I?m not sure if that is relevant ? any tips appreciated

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Actually, it puts it second, but that should be good enough.
>What are the reason(s) why the messages are held?
>Did you restart Mailman after putting the above in mm_cfg.py?


On 3/18/08 3:17 PM, "Fletcher Cocquyt" <fcocquyt at stanford.edu> wrote:

> 
>> Hi, I am seeing the same issue from this thread:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg41720.html
>> 
>> (spamassassin scores the email as spam (> DISCARD THRESHOLD), but mailman
>> still holds it for moderation) ? and my moderators are asking ?don?t we have
>> spam filters?!?
>> 
>> Doesn?t
>> GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')
>> put it first in the pipeline?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Fletcher.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 19 01:23:22 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:23:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/SpamAssassin holding for moderation
 instead of discarding spam
In-Reply-To: <C4059C72.6ACE%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>
References: <C4059C72.6ACE%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <47E05CFA.3080705@msapiro.net>

Fletcher Cocquyt wrote:
> Hi, forgive me for replying directly ? I?m on the digest version of the list
> and saw your reply on the web archive
> 
> [Bounced to list - MS]
> 
> "Post by non-member to a members-only list" is the reason

<snip>

> I also see this in the mailman error log:
> Mar 18 15:45:02 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
> Mar 18 15:45:15 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
> Mar 18 15:45:30 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
> Mar 18 15:45:38 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
> Mar 18 15:45:46 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
> Mar 18 15:46:01 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
> Mar 18 15:46:26 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
> Mar 18 15:46:38 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
> Mar 18 15:46:41 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
> Mar 18 15:46:58 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
> Mar 18 15:47:12 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
> Mar 18 15:47:18 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
> Mar 18 15:47:33 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
> 
> Which is from spamd.py:
> 
> god at irt-smtp-02:logs 4:19pm 133 # egrep "not enough"
> ./Mailman/Handlers/*.py
> ./Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py:            raise error('not enough words in
> response header')
> 
> 
> But I'm not sure if that is relevant

It's relevant. It means that your spamd.py module is not compatible with 
the spamd daemon on your system.

I don't know what spamd.py you're using, but the one from 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=534577&group_id=103&atid=300103> 
is looking for a header (first line) in the response from spamd that 
contains at least 3 whitespace delimited words. If it doesn't get at 
least 3 words in the first line of the response, it throws the "not 
enough words in response header" exception which results in 
SpamAssassin.py assigning a score of -1.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 19 01:30:04 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:30:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests not going out and lots of errors
	in/var/log/cron
In-Reply-To: <C405933E.11476%knabe@cisx.4j.lane.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803181730040328c111828c@msapiro>

Troy D. Knabe wrote:

>My digest messages are not going out, and I am seeing these messages in
>/var/log/cron every 5 minutes.
>
>Do I need a home directory for my mailman user?


crond is not able to run any of the commands in mailman's crontab. The
fact that you are seeing these log messages every 5 minutes indicates
it is reading your mailman crontab and trying to run gate_news so you
migh be able to make it work by putting

HOME=/path/to/mailman/prefix

in the initial lines of the crontab, but normally, this is set as
mailman's home directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Mar 19 01:48:41 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:48:41 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] word "bounces" in from address
In-Reply-To: <200803181839.m2IIdJLw019070@newbox.eroded.org>
References: <01e901c88853$3bc57ac0$b3507040$@com>
	<51CDB016C2A307A091A9DC1D@[10.0.0.14]>
	<200803181839.m2IIdJLw019070@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <87eja7v8ra.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Dragon writes:

 > The problem is that the relevant RFC document is vague on 
 > how that should be handled and displayed in the MUA.

I don't see that it's vague at all.  RFC 2822 provides several headers
for identifying various roles in transmitting the message on behalf of
the author.  The "From" header is specified to be the author(s);
putting information about *non-authors* in there is just plain wrong.

IMNSHO Outlook's behavior is definitely nonconforming.  And given the
popularity of Outlook, its continuation constitutes deliberate sabotage.


From fcocquyt at stanford.edu  Wed Mar 19 02:21:41 2008
From: fcocquyt at stanford.edu (Fletcher Cocquyt)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:21:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/SpamAssassin holding for moderation
 instead of discarding spam
In-Reply-To: <47E05CFA.3080705@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <C405B8B5.6B0A%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>

Yes, I had upgraded spamassassin, but not the spamd.py
After installing the latest version and bouncing its logging no more errors,
and the vette log has the spamassassin scores - looks good - thanks!
Fletcher


On 3/18/08 5:23 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Fletcher Cocquyt wrote:
>> Hi, forgive me for replying directly ? I?m on the digest version of the list
>> and saw your reply on the web archive
>> 
>> [Bounced to list - MS]
>> 
>> "Post by non-member to a members-only list" is the reason
> 
> <snip>
> 
>> I also see this in the mailman error log:
>> Mar 18 15:45:02 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
>> Mar 18 15:45:15 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
>> Mar 18 15:45:30 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
>> Mar 18 15:45:38 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
>> Mar 18 15:45:46 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
>> Mar 18 15:46:01 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
>> Mar 18 15:46:26 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
>> Mar 18 15:46:38 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
>> Mar 18 15:46:41 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
>> Mar 18 15:46:58 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
>> Mar 18 15:47:12 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
>> Mar 18 15:47:18 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
>> Mar 18 15:47:33 2008 (18680) spamd: not enough words in response header
>> 
>> Which is from spamd.py:
>> 
>> god at irt-smtp-02:logs 4:19pm 133 # egrep "not enough"
>> ./Mailman/Handlers/*.py
>> ./Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py:            raise error('not enough words in
>> response header')
>> 
>> 
>> But I'm not sure if that is relevant
> 
> It's relevant. It means that your spamd.py module is not compatible with
> the spamd daemon on your system.
> 
> I don't know what spamd.py you're using, but the one from
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=534577&group_id=103&
> atid=300103> 
> is looking for a header (first line) in the response from spamd that
> contains at least 3 whitespace delimited words. If it doesn't get at
> least 3 words in the first line of the response, it throws the "not
> enough words in response header" exception which results in
> SpamAssassin.py assigning a score of -1.



From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Wed Mar 19 09:11:49 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 03:11:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still sticking: gmail => fetchmail => mailman =>
	postfix
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803180831070843f83171b2@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200803180831070843f83171b2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a062309dfc40678c86f02@[192.168.33.3]>

After a reinstall, it appears that most of the earlier problems have cleared.

Creation of new lists and new subscriptions results in the proper 
sending of notices through Postfix.

Running Fetchmail appears to download mail, but it never gets sent out.

I've tried a number of variations of fetchmailrc including:

poll pop.gmail.com with protocol POP3 port 995
username "testlist at austinzencenter.com"  there with password "xxxxxxx"
is "testlist" here
and options ssl  sslcertck  sslcertpath  /usr/local/certs

with

testlist: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist"

in /etc/aliases

as well as:

poll pop.gmail.com with protocol POP3 port 995
username "testlist at austinzencenter.com"  there with password "xxxxxxx"
and options ssl  sslcertck  sslcertpath  /usr/local/certs
mda "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist"

and for good measure:

poll pop.gmail.com with protocol POP3 port 995
username "testlist at austinzencenter.com"  there with password "xxxxxxx"
is "testlist" here
and options ssl  sslcertck  sslcertpath  /usr/local/certs
mda "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist"


with testlist: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist"

in /etc/aliases

The aliasing appears to work in a separate test as well.

I'm assuming that the problem is with the fetchmail => mailman link. 
Is there another way to test the mailman => postfix link, such as 
manually inserting a list post to be processed?

Thanks.

-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From lammps-simulation at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 19 09:54:01 2008
From: lammps-simulation at hotmail.com (hongmark)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:54:01 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] about fix addforce command
In-Reply-To: <200803171625.m2HGPDiu015632@singsing.sandia.gov>
References: <BLU109-W407C263622035D26D3EF5FF090@phx.gbl>
	<200803171625.m2HGPDiu015632@singsing.sandia.gov>
Message-ID: <BLU109-W39112CF5843CFAAA3B5A55FF070@phx.gbl>



Dear sir,> > > > when I run a simulation of friction ,I found two questions!> > > > one is that I want to simulate the friction of Cu,Cu is FCC> > structure,so I must make 3d boundary condition,but friction simulation> > is 2d,I want to know how can I run the 2d friction of Cu?> > > > the othe is that I can not run the fix addforce command which is> > that "fix addforce 0.0 -1.0 0.0",which I want to add a force on -y> > axis, when the periods boundary condition are p s p,but when I do the> > :fix addforce 0.0 1.0 0.0 ',the running is ok.> > > > please coaching me !> > > > thank you !> > > > > > Mark> 
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Photo gallery ?????????????????????????????
http://get.live.cn/product/photo.html

From roberto.gherardi at gmail.com  Wed Mar 19 10:19:33 2008
From: roberto.gherardi at gmail.com (Roberto Gherardi)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:19:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem whit umbrella list
Message-ID: <584954160803190219g40a2a75ctcfc53e841e47dcd0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

My configuration umbrella list seems correct. In the file vette peaks the
following error:


Mar 18 14:27:45 2008 (14107) Cral-sicilia post from
cral-nazionale at nli.inail.it held, message-id=<
C35414A4474D5E45BECB8E1E5D42A6790B5B6E57 at ILMB02V1.inailrupa.inail.pri>:
Message has implicit destination


What means?


Thanks

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 19 14:50:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 06:50:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still sticking: gmail => fetchmail => mailman
	=>postfix
In-Reply-To: <a062309dfc40678c86f02@[192.168.33.3]>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031906505803592d779841@msapiro>

billc wrote:
>
>I'm assuming that the problem is with the fetchmail => mailman link. 
>Is there another way to test the mailman => postfix link, such as 
>manually inserting a list post to be processed?


Is Mailman running? Do you receive any mail from Mailman - e.g., list
created notices to the owner?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>

If the fetchmail -> mailman link works, the messages should get at
least as far as Mailman's in/ queue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 19 15:00:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:00:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem whit umbrella list
In-Reply-To: <584954160803190219g40a2a75ctcfc53e841e47dcd0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803190700080937d7f3f751@msapiro>

Roberto Gherardi wrote:
>
>My configuration umbrella list seems correct. In the file vette peaks the
>following error:
>
>
>Mar 18 14:27:45 2008 (14107) Cral-sicilia post from
>cral-nazionale at nli.inail.it held, message-id=<
>C35414A4474D5E45BECB8E1E5D42A6790B5B6E57 at ILMB02V1.inailrupa.inail.pri>:
>Message has implicit destination


It means that a post to the umbrella list cral-nazionale was delivered
to the Cral-sicilia list, but since the Cral-sicilia was not an
explicit addressee of the post, it was held for moderation.

You need to go to the admin Privacy options...->Recipient filters page
of the Cral-sicilia list and do one of the following:

Set require_explicit_destination to No

or

add cral-nazionale at nli.inail.it to acceptable_aliases

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carlos at timos.com  Wed Mar 19 17:32:03 2008
From: carlos at timos.com (Carlos Corredor)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:32:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass subscription
Message-ID: <001201c889de$c4190c20$6401a8c0@cclaptop>

Warning: newbie!

Hello, I am a new member and this is my first time using Mailman, or
anything to do with Python. I am using Mailman because it is the offered by
my web host, Intermedia.net, where I am on a shared ColdFusion server.

I have this thing figured out enough to have my announcement-only test list
already working. 

My question: I want to do a Mass Subscription, but would like to include
First Name and Last Name in each record. I could not find anywhere how to do
this. Is it possible? If so, how?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Carlos Corredor
Voice: 415 205 2787
FAX: 619 781 4305
Visit http://www.timos.com/ 



From carlos at timos.com  Wed Mar 19 18:54:23 2008
From: carlos at timos.com (Carlos Corredor)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:54:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Mass subscription
Message-ID: <002a01c889ea$43dbf3e0$6401a8c0@cclaptop>

In my previous post (copy below), I should have informed you all, that I
have to work from a control panel. I have to do everything from the mailing
list administration pages. I do not have access to the Python source code.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Warning: newbie!

Hello, I am a new member and this is my first time using Mailman, or
anything to do with Python. I am using Mailman because it is the offered by
my web host, Intermedia.net, where I am on a shared ColdFusion server.

I have this thing figured out enough to have my announcement-only test list
already working. 

My question: I want to do a Mass Subscription, but would like to include
First Name and Last Name in each record. I could not find anywhere how to do
this. Is it possible? If so, how?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.



From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Wed Mar 19 19:30:32 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:30:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still sticking: gmail => fetchmail => mailman
 =>postfix
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008031906505803592d779841@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008031906505803592d779841@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a062309e7c4070026294a@[192.168.33.3]>

At 6:50 AM -0700 3/19/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>billc wrote:
>>
>>I'm assuming that the problem is with the fetchmail => mailman link.
>>Is there another way to test the mailman => postfix link, such as
>>manually inserting a list post to be processed?
>
>
>Is Mailman running? Do you receive any mail from Mailman - e.g., list
>created notices to the owner?

Yes and yes.  Subscription and list creation messages come through fine.

>
>See
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>

Ok, will go through these steps.

>
>If the fetchmail -> mailman link works, the messages should get at
>least as far as Mailman's in/ queue.
>

nothing in any of the mailman/qfiles folders.


-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Mar 19 21:57:34 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:57:34 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]   Mass subscription
In-Reply-To: <002a01c889ea$43dbf3e0$6401a8c0@cclaptop>
References: <002a01c889ea$43dbf3e0$6401a8c0@cclaptop>
Message-ID: <8763via0u9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Carlos Corredor writes:

 > My question: I want to do a Mass Subscription, but would like to include
 > First Name and Last Name in each record. I could not find anywhere how to do
 > this. Is it possible? If so, how?

Use the format

First Last <email at example.com>

If there are non-letters in the name (period, comma are common) you
may need to put quotes around it:

"First M. Last" <email at example.com>

but actually I think Mailman is smart enough to do that for you.


From rsk at gsp.org  Wed Mar 19 22:56:16 2008
From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:56:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam backscatter: Which aliases to remove
In-Reply-To: <CE35F1FC0FBFA1B394AF29F9@[10.0.0.14]>
References: <PC17602008031718535306256abd8366@msapiro>
	<CE35F1FC0FBFA1B394AF29F9@[10.0.0.14]>
Message-ID: <20080319215616.GA21398@gsp.org>

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 07:10:30PM -0700, Kenneth Porter wrote:
> Ok, thanks. It sounds like I can safely prune admin, subscribe, 
> unsubscribe, join, and leave. That leaves bounces, confirm, owner, and 
> request, which I can tolerate dealing with manually.

I certainly agree with keeping -request, especially because
of RFC 2142 Section 6:

	Mailing lists have an administrative mailbox name to which add/drop
	requests and other meta-queries can be sent.

	For a mailing list whose submission mailbox name is:

		<LIST at DOMAIN>

	there MUST be the administrative mailbox name:

		<LIST-REQUEST at DOMAIN>

	Distribution List management software, such as MajorDomo and
	Listserv, also have a single mailbox name associated with the
	software on that system -- usually the name of the software -- rather
	than a particular list on that system.  Use of such mailbox names
	requires participants to know the type of list software employed at
	the site.  This is problematic.  Consequently:

		LIST-SPECIFIC (-REQUEST) MAILBOX NAMES ARE REQUIRED,
		INDEPENDENT OF THE AVAILABILITY OF GENERIC LIST SOFTWARE
		MAILBOX NAMES.


RFC 1211 discusses the use of "owner" -- except that it's owner-list,
not list-owner.  I've seen both used over the years, and tend to favor
the latter as it keeps the list name first, which is handy when
searching or sorting alias or virtusertable files.  I think it's
also less confusing to users: my experience has been that just
getting the -request convention firmly established can often take
considerable effort, so it seems to me that if we get that far,
then keeping the form consistent is a win.

There's been all kinds of discussion on this point, some of which
has to do with the vagaries of particular MTAs or MLM programs
(like majordomo) and some of which has to do with the nuances of
how people are running their lists.  If we ever get around to
updating RFC 2142, I think I'd like to argue for including the
trailing -owner form instead of the leading owner- form.

What I do locally: list-owner is fed to mailman just like -request
or anything else.  Inside mailman, I use "owner-list" as the value
of the relevant field.  Then I have an alias owner-list which actually
expands to the list of people who run the list.  This lets me
change that list of people without getting into the mailman config:
it's just an alias update.  It also lets me send messages directly
to those people (via owner-list) without routing them through mailman.
And it means that something reasonable will probably happen to incoming
mail from outside addressed to owner-list or list-owner.

Summarizing that last paragraph of unintelligble gibberish:

	Inside mailman:

	the foo-list owner field value is "owner-foo".

	In the aliases file:

	foo-owner:	"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner foo"
	owner-foo:	bozo at example.com, clown at example.com

so the last entry is the only thing that needs to be touched if
the keepers of the list change.


While I'm blabbing about this, I'd like to float another idea
related to RFC 2142.  We have postmaster (mail), webmaster (web)
and quite often hostmaster (DNS).  How about listmaster, which
would expand to "the person or persons responsible for the overall
care and feeding of mailing lists associated with this domain"?

Why have such as thing?  Because there are many sites (like one
that I run) where the keeper of the mail system, mailman, and
everything else isn't one of the people responsible for any lists,
and vice versa.  So asking a random list-owner, or even asking
all list-owners, to effect a site-side change doesn't work because
none of them can do it.  Hence...the listmaster, who *can* do it
and is thus the right person to be contacting.   Thoughts?

(...produces pocket-watch, swings it slowly...yes...yesssss...you
are all concurring that it is positively the most brilliant thing
you have ever read...goooood...sleeeeeeep now...)

---Rsk

From barry at list.org  Wed Mar 19 23:34:18 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:34:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam backscatter: Which aliases to remove
In-Reply-To: <20080319215616.GA21398@gsp.org>
References: <PC17602008031718535306256abd8366@msapiro>
	<CE35F1FC0FBFA1B394AF29F9@[10.0.0.14]>
	<20080319215616.GA21398@gsp.org>
Message-ID: <AD847F9C-4577-4C19-8491-CBDA0DF35186@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mar 19, 2008, at 4:56 PM, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

> While I'm blabbing about this, I'd like to float another idea
> related to RFC 2142.  We have postmaster (mail), webmaster (web)
> and quite often hostmaster (DNS).  How about listmaster, which
> would expand to "the person or persons responsible for the overall
> care and feeding of mailing lists associated with this domain"?

On python.org this is postmaster.  Do many sites split the  
responsibilities between mail and list care and feeding?

- -Barry

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From wheakory at isu.edu  Wed Mar 19 23:25:22 2008
From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:25:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sync_members command file
Message-ID: <47E192D2.5030608@isu.edu>

Could someone give me an example what the sync_members   file is suppose 
to look like to sync up new email address?  I'm not sure what the 
Sendmail :include: format is.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 20 02:51:12 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:51:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still sticking: gmail => fetchmail =>
	mailman=>postfix
In-Reply-To: <a062309e7c4070026294a@[192.168.33.3]>
Message-ID: <PC17602008031918511203752b890ca3@msapiro>

billc wrote:
>At 6:50 AM -0700 3/19/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>billc wrote:
>>>
>>>I'm assuming that the problem is with the fetchmail => mailman link.
>>>Is there another way to test the mailman => postfix link, such as
>>>manually inserting a list post to be processed?
>>
>>
>>Is Mailman running? Do you receive any mail from Mailman - e.g., list
>>created notices to the owner?
>
>Yes and yes.  Subscription and list creation messages come through fine.


This means that the Mailman -> outgoing postfix is working.


>>See
>><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>
>
>Ok, will go through these steps.
>
>>
>>If the fetchmail -> mailman link works, the messages should get at
>>least as far as Mailman's in/ queue.
>>
>
>nothing in any of the mailman/qfiles folders.


Then the mailman/mail/mailman wrapper is not receiving the post from
fetchmail or postfix or there is a group mismatch error in invoking
the wrapper (see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>)
or there is some other error in posting the message.

A group mismatch will result in the wrapper exiting with a non-zero
status and issuing a message which should appear somewhere.

Other errors should be logged in Mailman's error log.

If you want to verify the Mailman is working completely once a message
hits the mailman/qfiles/in/ queue, you can use mailman/bin/inject to
put a message in the in/ queue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 20 03:08:15 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:08:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sync_members command file
In-Reply-To: <47E192D2.5030608@isu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803191908150531e4c8e122@msapiro>

Kory Wheatley wrote:
>
>Could someone give me an example what the sync_members   file is suppose 
>to look like to sync up new email address?  I'm not sure what the 
>Sendmail :include: format is.


Blank lines are ignored.

Lines whose first non-whitespace character is '#' are ignored.

The remaining lines contain email addresses, optionally with names, one
address (and name) per line, in any format that can be parsed by
Python's email.Utils.parseaddr() function. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.044.htp>
for some examples.

The name is only significant for members who will be added.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Mar 20 04:01:19 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:01:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam backscatter: Which aliases to remove
In-Reply-To: <AD847F9C-4577-4C19-8491-CBDA0DF35186@list.org>
References: <PC17602008031718535306256abd8366@msapiro>
	<CE35F1FC0FBFA1B394AF29F9@[10.0.0.14]>
	<20080319215616.GA21398@gsp.org>
	<AD847F9C-4577-4C19-8491-CBDA0DF35186@list.org>
Message-ID: <87prtq2j5s.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Barry Warsaw writes:

 > Do many sites split the responsibilities between mail and list
 > care and feeding?

I suspect that it's pretty common in cases where people get a VMware
guest OS or soemthing like that.  The hosting company / ISP is going
to want to keep close watch on port 25, but list and crm services seem
like something they'll be just as happy to delegate to clients.
Especially since there's such a wide variety of them.

There are other cases I know of, too, where people with excess
capacity allow a buddy to set up mailman on their host (this is
basically what happened with xemacs.org).




From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Mar 20 07:12:04 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 01:12:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam backscatter: Which aliases to remove
In-Reply-To: <AD847F9C-4577-4C19-8491-CBDA0DF35186@list.org>
References: <PC17602008031718535306256abd8366@msapiro>
	<CE35F1FC0FBFA1B394AF29F9@[10.0.0.14]>	<20080319215616.GA21398@gsp.org>
	<AD847F9C-4577-4C19-8491-CBDA0DF35186@list.org>
Message-ID: <p06240805c407b098c765@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/19/08, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>  On python.org this is postmaster.  Do many sites split the
>  responsibilities between mail and list care and feeding?

Some sites do, but on the ones I run I usually have a separate 
listmaster and postmaster address anyway.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Mar 20 07:11:23 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 01:11:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam backscatter: Which aliases to remove
In-Reply-To: <20080319215616.GA21398@gsp.org>
References: <PC17602008031718535306256abd8366@msapiro>
	<CE35F1FC0FBFA1B394AF29F9@[10.0.0.14]> <20080319215616.GA21398@gsp.org>
Message-ID: <p06240804c407b034b00b@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/19/08, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

>  While I'm blabbing about this, I'd like to float another idea
>  related to RFC 2142.  We have postmaster (mail), webmaster (web)
>  and quite often hostmaster (DNS).

There's a hell of a lot more than that, and 2142 is not the only RFC 
to be looking at for this kind of thing.

>                                     How about listmaster, which
>  would expand to "the person or persons responsible for the overall
>  care and feeding of mailing lists associated with this domain"?

We have that on the sites I run.  What about it?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From rsk at gsp.org  Thu Mar 20 12:09:59 2008
From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:09:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam backscatter: Which aliases to remove
In-Reply-To: <AD847F9C-4577-4C19-8491-CBDA0DF35186@list.org>
References: <PC17602008031718535306256abd8366@msapiro>
	<CE35F1FC0FBFA1B394AF29F9@[10.0.0.14]>
	<20080319215616.GA21398@gsp.org>
	<AD847F9C-4577-4C19-8491-CBDA0DF35186@list.org>
Message-ID: <20080320110959.GA23759@gsp.org>

On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 05:34:18PM -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On python.org this is postmaster.  Do many sites split the  
> responsibilities between mail and list care and feeding?

I know that some do, some don't; but beyond that, I don't have
much of a feel for how it's done across the 'net.  I thought
that perhaps raising the subject for discussion here might provide
at least a few data points from this community.

Locally, I've delegated responsibilities equivalent to what I think
of as "listmaster" to people who are trained to work with Mailman
and majordomo, but not yet ready to dabble with sendmail and postfix.
I've also found it useful to add list-owners to the listmaster alias
expansion in order to add some transparency to the process.  (I split
this off from "postmaster" because most of that traffic doesn't pertain
to lists, and some of it involves private mail issues that don't need
to be exposed to list-owners.)

(Incidentally, I'm not aware of any current effort to update RFC 2142.)

---Rsk

From pratapkumar61866 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 20 15:59:45 2008
From: pratapkumar61866 at yahoo.com (Pratap Patel)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:59:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <694663.35093.qm@web56807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

please submit me


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Thu Mar 20 20:42:17 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (bill christensen)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:42:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still sticking: gmail => fetchmail =>
	mailman=>postfix
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008031918511203752b890ca3@msapiro>
References: <a062309e7c4070026294a@192.168.33.3>
	<PC17602008031918511203752b890ca3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43b7984f0803201242j99848bfie7d427ac7678c7df@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/19/08, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>
> A group mismatch will result in the wrapper exiting with a non-zero
> status and issuing a message which should appear somewhere.
>
> Other errors should be logged in Mailman's error log.


If it gets that far.  I'm suspecting  that there's  a problem with a domain
alias, which I'll  want to test before going any further.

If you want to verify the Mailman is working completely once a message
> hits the mailman/qfiles/in/ queue, you can use mailman/bin/inject to
> put a message in the in/ queue.
>
>
> I'm unclear on the use of mailman/bin/inject.

The only options given are -l for list and -q for queue.  Then it says
"filename is the name of the plaintext message file to inject.  If omitted,
standard input is used."  Ok... but there doesn't seem to be any way to
designate a file name (my obvious guess at -filename didn't do it), and
without it a call to

         python inject -l testlist

appears to be sitting there waiting for more input.

Sorry to have to keep bothering the list with this stuff.  I'm looking
forward to getting it running smoothly and moving a bunch of lists over from
a rather ancient listserv software.

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Mar 20 20:52:13 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:52:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still sticking: gmail => fetchmail =>
 mailman=>postfix
In-Reply-To: <43b7984f0803201242j99848bfie7d427ac7678c7df@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <a062309e7c4070026294a@192.168.33.3>
	<PC17602008031918511203752b890ca3@msapiro>
	<43b7984f0803201242j99848bfie7d427ac7678c7df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200803201952.m2KJqBuB011471@newbox.eroded.org>

bill christensen wrote:

>The only options given are -l for list and -q for queue.  Then it says
>"filename is the name of the plaintext message file to inject.  If omitted,
>standard input is used."  Ok... but there doesn't seem to be any way to
>designate a file name (my obvious guess at -filename didn't do it), and
>without it a call to
>
>          python inject -l testlist
>
>appears to be sitting there waiting for more input.
>
>Sorry to have to keep bothering the list with this stuff.  I'm looking
>forward to getting it running smoothly and moving a bunch of lists over from
>a rather ancient listserv software.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

The file name is simply added as the last parameter of the command line.

Like this:

         python inject -l testlist filename

Otherwise, the script tries to read from STDIN.

You do need to have something that passes as a valid e-mail message 
in the file. In other words, it needs appropriate headers (From:, 
To:, Message-id: at a minimum) and a valid message body terminated 
with a single line with a '.' and CRLF



 From the help emitted by the inject script:

./inject -h
Inject a message from a file into Mailman's incoming queue.

Usage: inject [options] [filename]

Options:

     -h / --help
         Print this text and exit.

     -l listname
     --listname=listname
         The name of the list to inject this message to.  Required.

     -q queuename
     --queue=queuename
         The name of the queue to inject the message to.  The queuename must be
         one of the directories inside the qfiles directory.  If omitted, the
         incoming queue is used.

filename is the name of the plaintext message file to inject.  If omitted,
standard input is used.


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Mar 21 04:56:07 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:56:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam backscatter: Which aliases to remove
In-Reply-To: <20080320110959.GA23759@gsp.org>
References: <PC17602008031718535306256abd8366@msapiro>
	<CE35F1FC0FBFA1B394AF29F9@[10.0.0.14]>	<20080319215616.GA21398@gsp.org>
	<AD847F9C-4577-4C19-8491-CBDA0DF35186@list.org>
	<20080320110959.GA23759@gsp.org>
Message-ID: <p06240805c408e22063ee@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/20/08, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

>  (Incidentally, I'm not aware of any current effort to update RFC 2142.)

Not any current efforts to update 2142, no.  But there are other 
standard role mailbox names that I've seen used and recommended, 
although I have not yet been able to locate a source for some of 
those.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From cwieland at uci.edu  Fri Mar 21 15:39:41 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 07:39:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] odd archive behavior
Message-ID: <3FD62640-ED06-465D-8BCC-F30B605691E7@uci.edu>

I don't understand why the body of this message was removed in the  
archives. (I have removed the picture at the bottom to meet the lists  
size requirement)

http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/visgrads/2008-March/000174.html

X-UCInetID: rjgeier
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:55:27 -0700
To: Visual Studies Grads <visgrads at UCI.EDU>
From: Jennifer Tucker <jjtucker at UCI.EDU> (by way of Roberta Geier  
<rjgeier at uci.edu>)
Subject: AfAm Studies presents Call Mr. Robeson 4/07/08
X-UCIRVINE-MailScanner: No viruses found

UC Irvine, Program in African American Studies presents

Tayo Aluko and Friends
Call Mr. Robeson
The monodrama, with songs.

Written and Performed by Tayo Aluko
Accompanied by Michael Conliffe (Piano)
Directed by Olusola Oyeleye
Designed by Phil Newman

Monday, April 7, 2008
8PM
Humanities Hall Little Theatre
UC Irvine

THIS EVENT IS FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC

Paul Robeson is a great and famous actor, singer and civil rights  
campaigner.

When over the years he gets progressively too radical and outspoken  
for the establishment's liking, he is branded a traitor to his  
country, harassed, and denied opportunities to perform or travel.

Just as physical, emotional and mental stress threatens to push him  
over the fine line between genius and madness, he is summoned to  
appear before the House Un-American Activities Committee, to give the  
most difficult and important performance of his career.

The play features some of his famous songs and speeches, and  
highlights how his radical activism caused him to be disowned and  
disremembered, even by the leaders and descendants of the civil  
rights movement.

www.tayoalukoandfriends.com

This production is co-sponsored by Student Affairs, the International  
Center for Writing and Translation, Department of Music, and  
Department of Drama.

For further information, contact Jennifer Tucker at African American  
Studies, 300B Murray Krieger Hall, jjtucker at uci.edu or 949-824-2376.

For concerns regarding a disability, please contact the UCI  
Disabilities Services Center at 949-824-7494.

For direction to the theatre, please see http://www.arts.uci.edu/ 
article.php?a_id=985





From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 21 17:29:45 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:29:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] odd archive behavior
In-Reply-To: <3FD62640-ED06-465D-8BCC-F30B605691E7@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803210929450906e8387217@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:

>I don't understand why the body of this message was removed in the  
>archives. (I have removed the picture at the bottom to meet the lists  
>size requirement)
>
>http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/visgrads/2008-March/000174.html


The short answer is Mailman 2.1.4

>From the above archive entry

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part
--------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...


So the 'body' was multipart/alternative. There have been many changes
to the scrubber since 2.1.4, and I think that currently, assuming the
multipart/alternative part had text/plain and text/html subparts, the
text/plain part would be the body in the archive, and the text/html
part would have been stored, but the 2.1.4 scrubber didn't do that
well with 'not so simple' message structures.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carlos at timos.com  Fri Mar 21 20:35:14 2008
From: carlos at timos.com (Carlos Corredor)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 11:35:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with new subscribers
Message-ID: <001701c88b8a$b0c99dd0$6401a8c0@cclaptop>

Hello again:
 
I have two lists. In one of them, I can add new members by mass subscription
only - adding a member using the general list information page does not
work: nothing happens - no response email of any kind, and of course, the
user does not get subscribed. In the other list, everything works as it's
supposed to.
 
I have ascertained that ALL the settings in mailing list administration are
exactly the same in both lists, The lists are on separate domains.
 
What could I possible have done to cause this problem?
 
Please note that I am on a shared host that has a control panel (not
cPanel), so I have to work from the administration page, I do not have
access to the Python source code.
 
Any ideas?
 
Carlos

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 21 20:00:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:00:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with new subscribers
In-Reply-To: <001701c88b8a$b0c99dd0$6401a8c0@cclaptop>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032112001402659862ee37@msapiro>

Carlos Corredor wrote:
> 
>I have two lists. In one of them, I can add new members by mass subscription
>only - adding a member using the general list information page does not
>work: nothing happens - no response email of any kind, and of course, the
>user does not get subscribed. In the other list, everything works as it's
>supposed to.


Did you edit the listinfo page template for the non-working list?

If so, you probably lost or misplaced the <MM-Subscribe-Form-Start> tag.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 21 20:58:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:58:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] odd archive behavior
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803210929450906e8387217@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC176020080321125848029603fadcb8@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Con Wieland wrote:
>
>>I don't understand why the body of this message was removed in the  
>>archives. (I have removed the picture at the bottom to meet the lists  
>>size requirement)
>>
>>http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/visgrads/2008-March/000174.html
>
>
>The short answer is Mailman 2.1.4
>
>>From the above archive entry
>
>Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part
>--------------
>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>
>
>So the 'body' was multipart/alternative. There have been many changes
>to the scrubber since 2.1.4, and I think that currently, assuming the
>multipart/alternative part had text/plain and text/html subparts, the
>text/plain part would be the body in the archive, and the text/html
>part would have been stored, but the 2.1.4 scrubber didn't do that
>well with 'not so simple' message structures.


To be more specific, I suspect the original message had a structure
similar to the following (except the jpeg image had content-type
application/octet-stream)

multipart/related
    multipart/alternative
        text/plain
        text/html
    image/jpeg

I tested this with the current scrubber and with the 2.1.4 scrubber.
The 2.1.4 scrubber produces the result you see in your archive and the
current scrubber produces the expected result with the text/plain body
in the message and the text/html and image/jpeg parts scrubbed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Fri Mar 21 22:02:25 2008
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:02:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Content Filtering for Body Text
Message-ID: <200803212102.m2LL2PbG027073@a.mail.sonic.net>

My mailing lists have a policy of disallowing copyrighted material without
permission.  I have a couple people on moderation who do not understand
this and post such things frequently.  But I want to keep most folks off
moderation if possible as it improves the flow of the list and reduces my
workload.

Once in a while, someone (who isn't moderated) forgets and posts an entire
published article.  Almost always, it's accompanied by one of those "fair
use" statements that someone made up a while ago and is used on everything
(I've seen it on press releases, government documents being forwarded, and
posts that correctly give a link and a single paragraph for context).

What I'd like to do is set up a filter that scans the content of the body
text for a phrase like: "FAIR USE NOTICE" or "Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107."
I would like those caught posts to go into the moderation queque ("hold"
not "reject" or "discard").

The content filtering in the web interface is for attachments and I'm
afraid to fiddle with it since I've had really bad results from trying to
use it before on a test list.  The only other thing in the interface I see
is the ability to filter based on text in the header (Privacy: Spam).

So I searched the MM FAQ and the archives of this list and came up with the
basic answer that, no, this is not possible unless you filter posts with
procmail prior to being processed by MM (something that is impossible for
me to do since my MM is run by my ISP) or use a patch (which is complex and
requires root access).

An example is:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg30851.html

But I can't find anything newer than 3 years.  Perhaps something has
changed since then?  Is what I'm asking possible without a major
workaround?  Might it be possible in the future, perhaps as an extension of
the spam filters?

Thanks,
Cyndi


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 21 22:22:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:22:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Content Filtering for Body Text
In-Reply-To: <200803212102.m2LL2PbG027073@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803211422390296eb866faf@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>
>What I'd like to do is set up a filter that scans the content of the body
>text for a phrase like: "FAIR USE NOTICE" or "Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107."
>I would like those caught posts to go into the moderation queque ("hold"
>not "reject" or "discard").

<snip>

>An example is:
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg30851.html
>
>But I can't find anything newer than 3 years.  Perhaps something has
>changed since then?  Is what I'm asking possible without a major
>workaround?  Might it be possible in the future, perhaps as an extension of
>the spam filters?


Nothing in this area has changed since the message you link to was
posted.

It is currently not possible to filter based on the content of a
message part without a custom handler or other form of patch.

You could add this request to the comments at
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From MHeer at lbl.gov  Fri Mar 21 23:22:27 2008
From: MHeer at lbl.gov (Mark Heer)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 15:22:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] merging 2 mbox files
Message-ID: <f25f52241fa5.47e3d2b3@lbl.gov>

Hello,

We are moving from majordomo to mailan.  We use 2 mail hubs to handle mail service so mail can be handled by either machine which means some archive entries for a particular list will end up on mx1 and other posts may end up in the archives on mx2.  I need to combine the archives into 1 for display on our web archive - which is on yet another machine
running mailman but not the mx functions.  I attempted /bin/arch --wipe listname but it did not re-order the list by time sent/proper sequence., it just reproduced the file just as I had concatenated it. Is there a way to merge 2 same list mboxes into 1 properly sequenced mbox?  

Thanks,

Mark 

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 21 23:58:06 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 15:58:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] merging 2 mbox files
In-Reply-To: <f25f52241fa5.47e3d2b3@lbl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803211558060718690bf134@msapiro>

Mark Heer wrote:
>
>I need to combine the archives into 1 for display on our web archive - which is on yet another machine
>running mailman but not the mx functions.  I attempted /bin/arch --wipe listname but it did not re-order the list by time sent/proper sequence., it just reproduced the file just as I had concatenated it. Is there a way to merge 2 same list mboxes into 1 properly sequenced mbox?  


I'm not aware of any convenient way to merge two .mbox files in time
sequence, but it wouldn't be to hard to do, in Python at least.

But I'm confused about what you did and what didn't work. I think if
you have two .mbox files and you do something like

bin/arch --wipe listname /path/to/first.mbox
bin/arch listname path/to/second.mbox

Or I gather you concatenated the two .mbox files into
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox and then just ran

bin/arch --wipe listname

In either case. you should wind up with a pipermail HTML archive with
the messages more or less in time sequence. Is that what you did? Is
that not what happened?

Or did you expect bin/arch to resequence the input .mbox file. It won't
do that; it just uses it as input; it doesn't rewrite it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Sat Mar 22 01:50:45 2008
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:50:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] corporate spam filter operation
Message-ID: <fa37e76f0803211750g5c39cd39p8759c07c1cf68359@mail.gmail.com>

This question is a little off-topic.

Are there corporate, enterprise spam-killing services that work on a
user-by-user basis, rather than a message-by-message basis? For example,
where the same message, sent to a few different people, might be rejected as
spam for one recipient but not others?

I'm seeing failures in patterns I didn't expect. We often have many members
in the same domain. I thought I'd see that every message to a domain was
rejected (because it was judged to be spam), or that most of them would
succeed (because it's not judged to be spam, but maybe we have a few old/bad
addresses).

What I'm seeing is that often, about 50% of the messages to a domain are
rejected. It seems like too many for them all to just be bad, old addresses
(although that's possible--this list has not been updated for a while), but
too few for them to have been rejected by spam filters.

I'm delivering messages individually, in case that matters.

Any thoughts/opinions?

Thanks a lot,
Matt

From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Sat Mar 22 02:18:19 2008
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 18:18:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] corporate spam filter operation
In-Reply-To: <fa37e76f0803211750g5c39cd39p8759c07c1cf68359@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fa37e76f0803211750g5c39cd39p8759c07c1cf68359@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A35E78CAEAF98AB3C6DF39EA@[10.170.7.6]>

--On Friday, March 21, 2008 8:50 PM -0400 Matt Morgan 
<minxmertzmomo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Are there corporate, enterprise spam-killing services that work on a
> user-by-user basis, rather than a message-by-message basis? For example,
> where the same message, sent to a few different people, might be rejected
> as spam for one recipient but not others?

There's Can-It:

<http://www.roaringpenguin.com/>

The free open source code that it's based on is MIMEDefang:

<http://mimedefang.org/>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 22 03:15:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:15:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] corporate spam filter operation
In-Reply-To: <fa37e76f0803211750g5c39cd39p8759c07c1cf68359@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080321191555004672a19a85@msapiro>

Matt Morgan wrote:
>
>Are there corporate, enterprise spam-killing services that work on a
>user-by-user basis, rather than a message-by-message basis? For example,
>where the same message, sent to a few different people, might be rejected as
>spam for one recipient but not others?


Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar 22 04:27:04 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:27:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] corporate spam filter operation
In-Reply-To: <fa37e76f0803211750g5c39cd39p8759c07c1cf68359@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fa37e76f0803211750g5c39cd39p8759c07c1cf68359@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c40a2a7357f9@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/21/08, Matt Morgan wrote:

>  Are there corporate, enterprise spam-killing services that work on a
>  user-by-user basis, rather than a message-by-message basis? For example,
>  where the same message, sent to a few different people, might be rejected as
>  spam for one recipient but not others?

You mean commercial systems that would be suitable for use in an 
Enterprise environment?  Not that I am aware of.

There are some tools like SpamAssassin that can be configured to have 
a database that stores the settings of an individual user and then 
applies those to the incoming messages, but that's non-trivial to set 
up and manage.  It can be done, but it takes some work, and there's 
definitely a cost that you end up paying in terms of higher 
administrative overhead in managing that system.

And procmail can be configured to run rules for processing the mail 
for each user as it is being delivered to their mailbox, and take 
various different actions with the message (file it to a separate 
folder, throw it away, run other programs, reject it, etc...).


Typical anti-spam appliances that I've seen would be like things from 
Barracuda or IronPort, and I don't know of any such appliances like 
this that have these kinds of features.

Personally, I would recommend avoiding the Barracuda appliances, 
since they come programmed by default to do some pretty stupid 
things, and they don't scale that well.  I've heard better things 
about the IronPorts, however.

>  What I'm seeing is that often, about 50% of the messages to a domain are
>  rejected. It seems like too many for them all to just be bad, old addresses
>  (although that's possible--this list has not been updated for a while), but
>  too few for them to have been rejected by spam filters.

Ahh, now there you could definitely be caught by people on the other 
end who are running into those SpamAssassin or procmail-type per-user 
filters.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From rsk at gsp.org  Sat Mar 22 12:49:51 2008
From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 07:49:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam backscatter: Which aliases to remove
In-Reply-To: <p06240805c408e22063ee@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <PC17602008031718535306256abd8366@msapiro>
	<CE35F1FC0FBFA1B394AF29F9@[10.0.0.14]>
	<20080319215616.GA21398@gsp.org>
	<AD847F9C-4577-4C19-8491-CBDA0DF35186@list.org>
	<20080320110959.GA23759@gsp.org>
	<p06240805c408e22063ee@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <20080322114951.GA5823@gsp.org>

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 10:56:07PM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 3/20/08, Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> 
> >  (Incidentally, I'm not aware of any current effort to update RFC 2142.)
> 
> Not any current efforts to update 2142, no.  But there are other 
> standard role mailbox names that I've seen used and recommended, 
> although I have not yet been able to locate a source for some of 
> those.

My experience matches yours: I think we're all walking around with various
(differing) lists of role mailbox names that we picked up over time.
Do you think it'd be worth the effort to attempt to bring all those
together, figure out which ones are worth recommending (or mandating),
and then updating 2142?

---Rsk

From minxmertzmomo at gmail.com  Sat Mar 22 14:47:52 2008
From: minxmertzmomo at gmail.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 09:47:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] corporate spam filter operation
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c40a2a7357f9@192.168.1.199>
References: <fa37e76f0803211750g5c39cd39p8759c07c1cf68359@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240800c40a2a7357f9@192.168.1.199>
Message-ID: <fa37e76f0803220647he5bb810m37dbfdaa69393dd@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 11:27 PM, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
wrote:

> On 3/21/08, Matt Morgan wrote:
>
> >  Are there corporate, enterprise spam-killing services that work on a
> >  user-by-user basis, rather than a message-by-message basis? For
> example,
> >  where the same message, sent to a few different people, might be
> rejected as
> >  spam for one recipient but not others?
>
> You mean commercial systems that would be suitable for use in an
> Enterprise environment?  Not that I am aware of.
>
> There are some tools like SpamAssassin that can be configured to have
> a database that stores the settings of an individual user and then
> applies those to the incoming messages, but that's non-trivial to set
> up and manage.  It can be done, but it takes some work, and there's
> definitely a cost that you end up paying in terms of higher
> administrative overhead in managing that system.


This is what I'm getting at. Last time I was in charge of email for a
corporate system (which is a few years ago, now), we used SA to mark
incoming messages as spam when it scored high enough, and then let users
take care of it locally with Thunderbird's adaptive filters. But spam was
getting worse, and helping users to understand adaptive filtering was too
hard--moving the adaptive filtering to the server wasn't going to work. We
needed something that worked all by itself, and after I left they switched
to some Postini-like service (which does not have user-level adaptation, as
far as I can tell).

Thanks, everyone, for the comments.

--Matt

From chris at westnet.com  Sat Mar 22 15:27:44 2008
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 10:27:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] merging 2 mbox files
In-Reply-To: <f25f52241fa5.47e3d2b3@lbl.gov>
References: <f25f52241fa5.47e3d2b3@lbl.gov>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0803221026060.20615@westnet.com>

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008, Mark Heer wrote:

> reproduced the file just as I had concatenated it. Is there a way to merge 
> 2 same list mboxes into 1 properly sequenced mbox?

If this is a one-time thing for the transition, you could load them into a 
mail program, move all the messages to a single folder, sort the folder 
by date, then save all to another folder again. I've done this with Pine. 

For a batch job this would be sub-optimal.


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 948-3162
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 22 16:13:25 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 08:13:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] merging 2 mbox files
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0803221026060.20615@westnet.com>
References: <f25f52241fa5.47e3d2b3@lbl.gov>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0803221026060.20615@westnet.com>
Message-ID: <47E52215.90304@msapiro.net>

Christopher X. Candreva wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Mar 2008, Mark Heer wrote:
> 
>> reproduced the file just as I had concatenated it. Is there a way to merge 
>> 2 same list mboxes into 1 properly sequenced mbox?
> 
> If this is a one-time thing for the transition, you could load them into a 
> mail program, move all the messages to a single folder, sort the folder 
> by date, then save all to another folder again. I've done this with Pine. 


I hacked a crude script to do the merge. It needs more work to become a 
really useful tool such as a switch to choose between the UnixMailbox 
(more strict From_ recognition) and PortableUnixMailbox (loose From_ 
recognition) classes and a switch to choose whether Date: or 
X-List-Received-Date: is the preferred merge key, but I have attached it 
in case it may be useful.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From opensource at unixoses.com  Sat Mar 22 16:15:54 2008
From: opensource at unixoses.com (Paul)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:15:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] corporate spam filter operation
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c40a2a7357f9@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <fa37e76f0803211750g5c39cd39p8759c07c1cf68359@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240800c40a2a7357f9@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <1239.192.168.103.1.1206198954.squirrel@bikesn4x4s.com>

How about just using http://www.spamhaus.org/?  Configure it in your MTA,
and it'll tell the sender if he's been rejected.  There are others, but
that one seems to be the best without false positives.


From rsk at gsp.org  Sat Mar 22 16:59:36 2008
From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:59:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] corporate spam filter operation
In-Reply-To: <fa37e76f0803211750g5c39cd39p8759c07c1cf68359@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fa37e76f0803211750g5c39cd39p8759c07c1cf68359@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080322155936.GA24661@gsp.org>

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 08:50:45PM -0400, Matt Morgan wrote:
> Are there corporate, enterprise spam-killing services that work on a
> user-by-user basis, rather than a message-by-message basis? For example,
> where the same message, sent to a few different people, might be rejected as
> spam for one recipient but not others?

Yes, there are.  There are also innumerable ways to handle this using
open-source software coupled with MTAs like sendmail, postfix, etc.

But (and I'll try to keep this very short since it's off-topic,
so contact me off-list to discuss) I consider it a major strategic
mistake to attempt this.  Per-user exceptions only benefit the enemy.
And under no circumstances should users be permitted to control them:
they're clearly incapable, as they've proven hundreds of millions of
times (if not more) and continue to prove all day every day.  See also
item #5 on Marcus Ranum's most excellent:

	The Six Dumbest Ideas in Computer Security
	http://www.ranum.com/security/computer_security/editorials/dumb/

---Rsk

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 22 18:13:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 10:13:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] corporate spam filter operation
In-Reply-To: <fa37e76f0803220647he5bb810m37dbfdaa69393dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032210135805316986024d@msapiro>

Matt Morgan wrote:
>... and after I left they switched
>to some Postini-like service (which does not have user-level adaptation, as
>far as I can tell).


Postini, at least as provided to customers of amerion.com and its
subsidiary domains, does provide user-level controls.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar 22 19:34:30 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 13:34:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam backscatter: Which aliases to remove
In-Reply-To: <20080322114951.GA5823@gsp.org>
References: <PC17602008031718535306256abd8366@msapiro>
	<CE35F1FC0FBFA1B394AF29F9@[10.0.0.14]>	<20080319215616.GA21398@gsp.org>
	<AD847F9C-4577-4C19-8491-CBDA0DF35186@list.org>
	<20080320110959.GA23759@gsp.org>	<p06240805c408e22063ee@[192.168.1.199]>
	<20080322114951.GA5823@gsp.org>
Message-ID: <p06240803c40b0174bca2@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/22/08, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

>  My experience matches yours: I think we're all walking around with various
>  (differing) lists of role mailbox names that we picked up over time.
>  Do you think it'd be worth the effort to attempt to bring all those
>  together, figure out which ones are worth recommending (or mandating),
>  and then updating 2142?

That sounds like a good idea.  This would also give us the 
opportunity to make some recommendations as to things you should or 
should not do with those addresses, like subscribing to mailing lists 
with "postmaster at example.com", or whatever.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From munichlinux at yahoo.co.in  Sun Mar 23 15:50:43 2008
From: munichlinux at yahoo.co.in (prashanth g)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:20:43 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe in email footer
Message-ID: <259816.11003.qm@web94504.mail.in2.yahoo.com>

Hi,


       In the email footer i could the see 

unsubscribe : http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/munichlinux%40yahoo.co.in

how and where to set this? 



Prashanth




      Why delete messages? Unlimited storage is just a click away. Go to http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 23 16:10:26 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 08:10:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe in email footer
In-Reply-To: <259816.11003.qm@web94504.mail.in2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080323081026004665375308@msapiro>

prashanth g wrote:
>
>       In the email footer i could the see 
>
>unsubscribe : http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/munichlinux%40yahoo.co.in
>
>how and where to set this? 


Put

Unsubscribe: %(user_optionsurl)s

in msg_footer (in Non-digest options). This requires that the list be
personalized in order to work. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.015.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From webcoder at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar 24 07:08:41 2008
From: webcoder at cfl.rr.com (Juston Griggs)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 02:08:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello, In need of help please
Message-ID: <20080324060840.MUFC2814.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@juston331cdd51>

Hello All,

 

 I have setup mailman on my server, I got it up & running & created a
maillist. During my testing, I sent I test message to my list & I got a
failure back.

 

The first failure I got when I sent it from an email account not associated
with the server..

 

This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

 

Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.

The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why each
recipient was rejected.

 

    Recipient: <net_admins at xalarisirc.net>

    Reason:    5.7.1 <net_admins at xalarisirc.net>: Relay access denied

 

 

This next error come when I sent from an email address that is set up
through the mail server on the same machine as mailman.

 

This is the mail system at host li20-14.members.linode.com. I'm sorry to
have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to one or more
recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to
postmaster. If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete
your own text from the attached returned message. The mail system
<net_admins at xalarisirc.net>: mail for xalarisirc.net loops back to myself

 

 

Any ideas or suggestions on what I can do to correct this?

 

Thanks

Juston Griggs

 


From cwieland at uci.edu  Mon Mar 24 15:56:42 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:56:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error when changing subscription permisions
Message-ID: <61826140-7474-4B11-AA3A-CBD3DBC7C831@uci.edu>

When trying to change subscription permissions from "Confirm" to  
either "Require Approval" or "Confirm and Approve" I get the  
following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
     main()
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 175, in main
     change_options(mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 1299, in  
change_options
     gui.handleForm(mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py", line 510, in  
handleForm
     GUIBase.handleForm(self, mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Gui/GUIBase.py", line 154, in  
handleForm
     doc.addError(
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 340, in  
addError
     self.AddItem(Header(3, Bold(FontAttr(
TypeError: not enough arguments for format string

other lists seem to work fine. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance
Con Wieland
Network and Academic Computing Services
University of California at Irvine

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 24 16:40:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:40:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello, In need of help please
In-Reply-To: <20080324060840.MUFC2814.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@juston331cdd51>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032408403206569b5ed1f0@msapiro>

Juston Griggs wrote:
>
>The first failure I got when I sent it from an email account not associated
>with the server..
>
> 
>
>This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
>
<snip>
>    Reason:    5.7.1 <net_admins at xalarisirc.net>: Relay access denied
>
>This next error come when I sent from an email address that is set up
>through the mail server on the same machine as mailman.
>
> 
>
>This is the mail system at host li20-14.members.linode.com. I'm sorry to
>have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to one or more
>recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to
>postmaster. If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete
>your own text from the attached returned message. The mail system
><net_admins at xalarisirc.net>: mail for xalarisirc.net loops back to myself


These are MTA (Postfix?) configuration questions, not Mailman questions.

Just one guess - if this is Postfix, add xalarisirc.net to
virtual_alias_domains in Postfix's main.cf.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 24 17:40:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:40:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error when changing subscription permisions
In-Reply-To: <61826140-7474-4B11-AA3A-CBD3DBC7C831@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032409400804683b1893fc@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:

>When trying to change subscription permissions from "Confirm" to  
>either "Require Approval" or "Confirm and Approve" I get the  
>following error:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>     main()
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 175, in main
>     change_options(mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 1299, in  
>change_options
>     gui.handleForm(mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py", line 510, in  
>handleForm
>     GUIBase.handleForm(self, mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Gui/GUIBase.py", line 154, in  
>handleForm
>     doc.addError(
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 340, in  
>addError
>     self.AddItem(Header(3, Bold(FontAttr(
>TypeError: not enough arguments for format string


It is not clear to me why this exception is occurring as I can't see a
reason for it in the (2.1.4 base) code, but what is happening is the
page is attempting to report a bad email address which means that the
underlying problem is the ban_list contains a syntactically invalid
address which is not a regexp (i.e. not beginning with '^').

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zszalbot at gmail.com  Mon Mar 24 18:00:42 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:00:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman discarding messages
Message-ID: <94136a2c0803241000q9ed0a7akd6569d81b47b53bb@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am looking for help. One of my mailman lists suddenly started
discarding messages sent to it.

The list had certain non-member email address configured to post
without moderation. It worked well. Today I changed the setting so
that emails from that particular address should be held for
moderation. However, message sent from this address now get discarded.
At least that is what the vette log says and no post makes it to the
list.

I tried other tricks (1) setting the email address back as not
requiring moderation, (2) subscribing the email address with
moderation bit turned on, (3) subscribing the email address with
moderation bit turned off. No matter what I do, I have not been able
to post to the list. All messages are marked as discarded.

I am using Mailman 2.1.9. What can I do to remedy this situation? Many thanks!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 24 18:36:19 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 10:36:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman discarding messages
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0803241000q9ed0a7akd6569d81b47b53bb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803241036190015f82aeac2@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>I am looking for help. One of my mailman lists suddenly started
>discarding messages sent to it.


Here are the ways a message can get discarded.

Post matches KNOWN_SPAMMERS in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py.
Post matches header_filter_rules with a discard action.
Post from a moderated member if member_moderation_action is discard.
Post from a non member in discard_these_nonmembers.
Post with all content removed by content filtering.
Post is a text/html message, scrub_nondigest is Yes and
   ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 0 in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py.

It's one of the above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From steiny at infopoint.com  Mon Mar 24 18:09:44 2008
From: steiny at infopoint.com (Don Steiny)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:09:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I am sorry to bother everyone but ..
Message-ID: <47E7E058.2020201@infopoint.com>

Hi,

   I have searched through the archives and I have found the question,
but never the answer.

   I maintain some lists and 99% or more of what I get to the admin
address spam that has been effectively been dealt with. It got so I just
told everyone one the list to write me directly with problems and once
every couple of weeks I would delete everything that came to the admin.
 I went a way for a couple of months and now there is so much stuff, I
can't get rid if it. The Web interface times out.  Is there any backdoor
way I can delete it all? I know the shell and MySQL very well.

   Thanks!

-Don

From carmen.chang at dhl.com  Mon Mar 24 18:58:00 2008
From: carmen.chang at dhl.com (Carmen Chang (DHL US))
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 10:58:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I need help !!!
Message-ID: <0CD8D208833C5248B885C310CB3BCD220732567C@PHXDCEX001.phx-dc.dhl.com>

Hi,
 
I need to create a new distribution list but an error message comes up.
This is the message that comes up:
 

Internal Server Error


The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was
unable to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator, root at localhost and inform them
of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that
may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error
log.

________________________________

Apache/2.0.46 (Red Hat) Server at amlists.dhl.com Port 80
 
 
Could someone help me please???
 
Thank you,
 
Carmen Chang
Administrative Assistant to
Joeri Weyenberg, VP of Pricing
 
DHL Express, Inc.
1210 South Pine Island Road
4th Floor
Plantation, FL 33324
 
Tel:  954-626-2570
Fax: 954-626-1616
 
carmen.chang at dhl.com
www.dhl.com <http://www.dhl.com/> 
 
P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
 

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Mon Mar 24 19:30:57 2008
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:30:57 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I need help !!!
In-Reply-To: <0CD8D208833C5248B885C310CB3BCD220732567C@PHXDCEX001.phx-dc.dhl.com>
References: <0CD8D208833C5248B885C310CB3BCD220732567C@PHXDCEX001.phx-dc.dhl.com>
Message-ID: <FE4F9D11AF6A6744AA0CE43248CEC0D80D8505@elrond.hodgsonfamily.org>

Carmen Chang (DHL US) wrote:

>I need to create a new distribution list but an error message comes up.
>This is the message that comes up:
 
>Internal Server Error

>The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was 
>unable to complete your request.

[...]

>Apache/2.0.46 (Red Hat) Server at amlists.dhl.com Port 80

Are you the person in charge of this server, and who can gain admin
access to it?  You would need to check out various log files in order to
try and work out what went wrong. 

Thanks.
Andrew.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 24 19:33:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:33:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I need help !!!
In-Reply-To: <0CD8D208833C5248B885C310CB3BCD220732567C@PHXDCEX001.phx-dc.dhl.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803241133350046f2e3ec71@msapiro>

Carmen Chang (DHL US) wrote:
> 
>I need to create a new distribution list but an error message comes up.
>This is the message that comes up:
> 
>
>Internal Server Error
>
>
>The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was
>unable to complete your request.
>
>Please contact the server administrator, root at localhost and inform them
>of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that
>may have caused the error.
>
>More information about this error may be available in the server error
>log.
>
>________________________________
>
>Apache/2.0.46 (Red Hat) Server at amlists.dhl.com Port 80
> 
> 
>Could someone help me please???


You need to report his to your "help desk" or whoever in the IT
department at DHL supports the web server and/or Mailman on the
amlists.dhl.com server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 24 19:49:30 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:49:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I am sorry to bother everyone but ..
In-Reply-To: <47E7E058.2020201@infopoint.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803241149300609f2e3ee9f@msapiro>

Don Steiny wrote:
>
>   I maintain some lists and 99% or more of what I get to the admin
>address spam that has been effectively been dealt with. It got so I just
>told everyone one the list to write me directly with problems and once
>every couple of weeks I would delete everything that came to the admin.
> I went a way for a couple of months and now there is so much stuff, I
>can't get rid if it. The Web interface times out.  Is there any backdoor
>way I can delete it all? I know the shell and MySQL very well.


If you are talking about held messages in the admindb web interface,
see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.074.htp>.
Also, if your Mailman is 2.1.6 or newer, consider setting
max_days_to_hold on the admin General Options page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zszalbot at gmail.com  Mon Mar 24 20:08:56 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:08:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman discarding messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803241036190015f82aeac2@msapiro>
References: <94136a2c0803241000q9ed0a7akd6569d81b47b53bb@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200803241036190015f82aeac2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0803241208u2847f551rb29d97d9f0c1fe0b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

2008/3/24, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> >
> >I am looking for help. One of my mailman lists suddenly started
> >discarding messages sent to it.
>
>
> Here are the ways a message can get discarded.
>
> Post matches KNOWN_SPAMMERS in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py.
Nothing set in either file.

> Post matches header_filter_rules with a discard action.
header_filter_rules are set to defer.

> Post from a moderated member if member_moderation_action is discard.
This user has been removed.

> Post from a non member in discard_these_nonmembers.
Non-member yes but nothing in discard_these_nonmembers

> Post with all content removed by content filtering.
No content filtering in place (set to No)

> Post is a text/html message, scrub_nondigest is Yes and
>   ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 0 in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py.
scrub_nondigest is set to No.

>
> It's one of the above.
It seems it is not one of the above. Is there a way to turn on more debugging?

Thank you Mark!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 24 20:44:20 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:44:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman discarding messages
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0803241208u2847f551rb29d97d9f0c1fe0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032412442005782c7f47b6@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbotwrote:
>
>2008/3/24, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
>
>> Post from a moderated member if member_moderation_action is discard.
>This user has been removed.


Post is from a member if any of From:, Reply-To: or Sender: contain a
member address or if the envelope sender is a member.


>It seems it is not one of the above. Is there a way to turn on more debugging?

I forgot one - post from non-member and generic_nonmember_action is
Discard.

There is no additional debugging without actually patching the code,
but you could set forward_auto_discards to Yes (or maybe it is
already). If forward_auto_discards is Yes, the owner will get an
Auto-discard notification if and only if the message is discarded
because of discard_these_nonmembers or generic_nonmember_action, so
that might help narrow it down.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From webcoder at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar 25 00:23:46 2008
From: webcoder at cfl.rr.com (Juston Griggs)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:23:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello, In need of help please
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008032408403206569b5ed1f0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080324232345.JEO2814.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@juston331cdd51>

Thanks for the response, I did what you suggested, and I tried a test
message, now I get this...

This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.
The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why each
recipient was rejected.

    Recipient: <net_admins at xalarisirc.net>
    Reason:    5.1.1 <net_admins at xalarisirc.net>: Recipient address
rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table

Thanks for the help
Juston


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:41 AM
To: Juston Griggs; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Hello, In need of help please

Juston Griggs wrote:
>
>The first failure I got when I sent it from an email account not associated
>with the server..
>
> 
>
>This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
>
<snip>
>    Reason:    5.7.1 <net_admins at xalarisirc.net>: Relay access denied
>
>This next error come when I sent from an email address that is set up
>through the mail server on the same machine as mailman.
>
> 
>
>This is the mail system at host li20-14.members.linode.com. I'm sorry to
>have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to one or more
>recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail
to
>postmaster. If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete
>your own text from the attached returned message. The mail system
><net_admins at xalarisirc.net>: mail for xalarisirc.net loops back to myself


These are MTA (Postfix?) configuration questions, not Mailman questions.

Just one guess - if this is Postfix, add xalarisirc.net to
virtual_alias_domains in Postfix's main.cf.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1340 - Release Date: 3/23/2008
6:50 PM



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 25 00:46:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:46:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello, In need of help please
In-Reply-To: <20080324232345.JEO2814.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@juston331cdd51>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032416463906874de32d96@msapiro>

Juston Griggs wrote:

>Thanks for the response, I did what you suggested, and I tried a test
>message, now I get this...
>
>This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
>
>Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.
>The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why each
>recipient was rejected.
>
>    Recipient: <net_admins at xalarisirc.net>
>    Reason:    5.1.1 <net_admins at xalarisirc.net>: Recipient address
>rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table


See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html> including the
subsections

# 6.1.1 Integrating Postfix and Mailman
# 6.1.2 Virtual domains

for information about setting up Mailman and Postfix to work together.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Tue Mar 25 04:03:35 2008
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:03:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Content filtering problem...
Message-ID: <47E86B87.8070400@wingfoot.org>

Hi everyone!

I'm highly puzzled. I have a user trying to post on a list I own. She's 
getting "The message's content type was not explicitly allowed". The 
message is just a "Test post" from her, headers (anonymized) follow the 
email. There are *NO* entries in any of the mailman log files showing 
her posts being rejected or why. Postfix mail logs just show the 
outgoing mail from list-I-own-owner at .. going to her.

Settings from content filtering:

Should mailman filter? Yes
Remove message attachments that have a matching content type: (blank)
Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. 
Leave this field blank to skip this filter test:  multipart/mixed 
multipart/alternative text/plain
Remove message attachments that have a matching filename extension: exe 
bat cmd com pif scr vbs cpl
Remove message attachments that don't have a matching filename 
extension. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test.  (blank)
Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part 
content?  Yes
Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion 
happens after MIME attachments have been stripped: Yes
Action to take when a message matches the content filtering rules: Reject

I'd appreciate any help :-/

Thanks in advance!
Best,
--Glenn (headers follow)

> Subject: test post
> From: yahoo user <yahoo_user blat yahoo.com>
> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:41:01 -0700 (PDT)
> To: list-I-own <list-I-own blat lists.wingfoot.org>
> Return-Path: <yahoo_user blat yahoo.com>
> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wingfoot.org 
> (Postfix) with ESMTP id A15AD39DC50 for <list-I-own blat 
> lists.wingfoot.org>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:44:12 -0400 (EDT)
> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at wingfoot.org
> X-Spam-Flag: NO
> X-Spam-Score: -0.641
> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.641 tagged_above=-999 required=6 
> tests=[AWL=-1.097, BAYES_00=-2.599, DKIM_SIGNED=0.001, 
> DKIM_VERIFIED=-0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.5, FREEMAIL_FROM_D3=1, 
> HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_MIME_NO_HTML_TAG=0.097, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457]
> Received: from wingfoot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (wingfoot.org 
> [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OWGZ3AAEsz1y for 
> <list-I-own blat lists.wingfoot.org>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:44:04 -0400 
> (EDT)
> Received: from web55805.mail.re3.yahoo.com 
> (web55805.mail.re3.yahoo.com [216.252.110.51]) by wingfoot.org 
> (Postfix) with SMTP id E460C39DC4C for <list-I-own blat 
> lists.wingfoot.org>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:44:03 -0400 (EDT)
> Received: (qmail 88759 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Mar 2008 02:41:01 -0000
> DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; 
> h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; 
> b=K84BI4SQEiUyUvh4rBhj838igaj9r7XQZd2tOkltVxl0+MuKo5YZE7KUJBiPj7DNMiK5VmB/PW9OMVjRdnj93QUkaYEWn1BrbEh1fv5OzN1SzIsNAAA5VtqVfJN//RNiuKuLb5FFhIO3jGYeidkoYMm5Zvxk6oOtgvvy9HMNvcQ=;
> X-YMail-OSG: 
> 7uudDSEVM1nvrn9SdsHKiA2dp9RH51bGQkhyhO.WpWE5pYs4qUOZ8_JgLMK7q9ZrBg--
> Received: from [24.233.189.167] by web55805.mail.re3.yahoo.com via 
> HTTP; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:41:01 PDT
> X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.185
> Reply-To: yahoo_user blat yahoo.com
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Message-ID: <498709.88720.qm blat web55805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
>
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 25 04:55:59 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:55:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Content filtering problem...
In-Reply-To: <47E86B87.8070400@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803242055590593aa8fb0ec@msapiro>

Glenn Sieb wrote:
>
>I'm highly puzzled. I have a user trying to post on a list I own. She's 
>getting "The message's content type was not explicitly allowed". The 
>message is just a "Test post" from her, headers (anonymized) follow the 
>email. There are *NO* entries in any of the mailman log files showing 
>her posts being rejected or why. Postfix mail logs just show the 
>outgoing mail from list-I-own-owner at .. going to her.
>
>Settings from content filtering:
>
>Should mailman filter? Yes
>Remove message attachments that have a matching content type: (blank)
>Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. 
>Leave this field blank to skip this filter test:  multipart/mixed 
>multipart/alternative text/plain


So you are allowing only text/plain parts that are either a text/plain
message or a text/plain sub-part of a multipart/mixed or
multipart/alternative message

No text/html.


>Remove message attachments that have a matching filename extension: exe 
>bat cmd com pif scr vbs cpl
>Remove message attachments that don't have a matching filename 
>extension. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test.  (blank)
>Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part 
>content?  Yes


Irrelevant because you only accept the text/plain alternative in the
first place.


>Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion 
>happens after MIME attachments have been stripped: Yes


Irrelevant again because you don't accept text/html.


>Action to take when a message matches the content filtering rules: Reject
>
>I'd appreciate any help :-/
<snip>

>> Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8


You don't accept text/html.


I suggest what you want in pass_mime_types is

multipart
message/rfc822
text/plain
text/html

This will accept all text plain parts and text/html parts, even from
attached message/rfc822 parts. Then multipart/alternative parts will
be collapsed to the first (probably text/plain) alternative, and any
remaining text/html parts will be converted to plain text by lynx or
whatever you set in mm_cfg.py for HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND.

If you also want to accept signed messages, you probably want to add

application/pgp-signature

to the above list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zszalbot at gmail.com  Tue Mar 25 08:03:31 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:03:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman discarding messages
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008032412442005782c7f47b6@msapiro>
References: <94136a2c0803241208u2847f551rb29d97d9f0c1fe0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602008032412442005782c7f47b6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0803250003n569796dcm5ad163ed2b400d67@mail.gmail.com>

Hello again,

> I forgot one - post from non-member and generic_nonmember_action is
>  Discard.

Yes, post is from non-member and generic_nonmember_action is Hold.

>
>  There is no additional debugging without actually patching the code,
>  but you could set forward_auto_discards to Yes (or maybe it is

Already set but I am not informed of a discard action I just see it in
the vette log.

>  already). If forward_auto_discards is Yes, the owner will get an
>  Auto-discard notification if and only if the message is discarded
>  because of discard_these_nonmembers or generic_nonmember_action, so
>  that might help narrow it down.

Is there anything else I can check? I am about to delete the members
as this was time-limited subscription but we wanted to send a final
thank you message to them and frustrating as it is, we can't do that.
Thank you!


-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Tue Mar 25 10:32:54 2008
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:32:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Content filtering problem...
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803242055590593aa8fb0ec@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200803242055590593aa8fb0ec@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47E8C6C6.1000204@wingfoot.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I suggest what you want in pass_mime_types is
>
> multipart
> message/rfc822
> text/plain
> text/html
>
> This will accept all text plain parts and text/html parts, even from
> attached message/rfc822 parts. Then multipart/alternative parts will
> be collapsed to the first (probably text/plain) alternative, and any
> remaining text/html parts will be converted to plain text by lynx or
> whatever you set in mm_cfg.py for HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND.
>
> If you also want to accept signed messages, you probably want to add
>
> application/pgp-signature
>
> to the above list.
>
>   

I've changed the list's config to match this--and am waiting for the 
user to try it again. I am sure, given the changes, it will work now.

Thanks again, Mark!

Best,
--Glenn

From mrsun2001 at yahoo.de  Tue Mar 25 15:55:10 2008
From: mrsun2001 at yahoo.de (Ralf Wiegand)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:55:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] drop confirm link in reply message
In-Reply-To: <47E8C6C6.1000204@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <779676.63785.qm@web25509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Question: What do I have to do, so the user only can
email back to confirm his/her subscription.  Dropping
the entire line:
>>>
Or visit this web page:

  
 
http://realdomain.de/mailman/confirm/some-test/6a35b70816124e39ac787c6ff0795cd6a400b959
<<<<


Mailing list subscription confirmation notice for
mailing list
some-test

We have received a request from xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx for
subscription of your
email address, "someemail at mydomain.de", to the
some-test at somedomain.de
mailing list.  To confirm that you want to be added to
this mailing
list, simply reply to this message, keeping the
Subject: header
intact.  Or visit this web page:

  
 
http://realdomain.de/mailman/confirm/some-test/6a35b70816124e39ac787c6ff0795cd6a400b959


Or include the following line -- and only the
following line -- in a
message to some-test-request at realdomain.de:

    confirm 6a35b70816124e39ac787c6ff0795cd6a400b959

Note that simply sending a `reply' to this message
should work from
most mail readers, since that usually leaves the
Subject: line in the
right form (additional "Re:" text in the Subject: is
okay).

If you do not wish to be subscribed to this list,
please simply
disregard this message.  If you think you are being
maliciously
subscribed to the list, or have any other questions,
send them to
some-test-owner at realdomain.de.



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From lmeier at ajc.com  Tue Mar 25 16:04:12 2008
From: lmeier at ajc.com (Layne Meier)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:04:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a list
Message-ID: <74C0D5BC-80BA-4277-80BA-84D6B0432F25@ajc.com>

I'm installing a brand new mailman list server and am having some  
problems.

When I attempt to create a new mail list, I get the following error  
message:

Error: Unknown virtual host: listserver.hiddendomain.gtld

(Hiding the domain to protect the innocent). I know this is probably  
something that has been covered in the past, but any help would be  
greatly appreciated.

I'm installing this on a Sun v100, running Apache.  The Apache config  
has multiple virtual hosts listed.

Layne Meier



From mrsun2001 at yahoo.de  Tue Mar 25 16:38:33 2008
From: mrsun2001 at yahoo.de (wolf97)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:38:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading to new mailman version
In-Reply-To: <47E8C6C6.1000204@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <771587.2974.qm@web25512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

We are currently running all of our mailing lists on a
Solaris 8 box, run mailman version 2.1/sendmail.  I
would like to upgrade to a completely new box.  Linux
Redhat Enterprise and the latest version of mailman
and postfix.  Is there a way to export/import all my
existing list from the original server to the new one?

Thank You
Ralf Wiegand


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 25 17:26:04 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:26:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman discarding messages
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0803250003n569796dcm5ad163ed2b400d67@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080325092604078105cc27f1@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot
>
>Is there anything else I can check? I am about to delete the members
>as this was time-limited subscription but we wanted to send a final
>thank you message to them and frustrating as it is, we can't do that.


You can edit Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py as follows:

Find the code in the do_pipeline() method that says

            except Errors.DiscardMessage:
                # Throw the message away; we need do nothing else with
it.
                syslog('vette', 'Message discarded, msgid: %s',
                       msg.get('message-id', 'n/a'))
                return 0

and change it to

            except Errors.DiscardMessage:
                # Throw the message away; we need do nothing else with
it.
                syslog('vette', 'Message discarded by %s, msgid: %s',
                       handler, msg.get('message-id', 'n/a'))
                return 0

and then restart Mailman.

This will add the name of the handler to the vette log message. Then,
at least we know what to look at.

The attached patch.txt is an actual patch for the above change.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: patch.txt
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20080325/629574f4/attachment.txt 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 25 17:42:05 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:42:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] drop confirm link in reply message
In-Reply-To: <779676.63785.qm@web25509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080325094205010927300ab2@msapiro>

Ralf Wiegand wrote:

>Question: What do I have to do, so the user only can
>email back to confirm his/her subscription.  Dropping
>the entire line:
>>>>
>Or visit this web page:
>
>  
> 
>http://realdomain.de/mailman/confirm/some-test/6a35b70816124e39ac787c6ff0795cd6a400b959
><<<<


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>
for information on editing templates. The template(s) you want to edit
is(are) verify.txt for all supported languages.

If you ever issue invitations, you probably also want to edit
invite.txt.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 25 18:02:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:02:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a list
In-Reply-To: <74C0D5BC-80BA-4277-80BA-84D6B0432F25@ajc.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803251002500796be06c2ae@msapiro>

Layne Meier wrote:
>
>When I attempt to create a new mail list, I get the following error  
>message:
>
>Error: Unknown virtual host: listserver.hiddendomain.gtld
>
>(Hiding the domain to protect the innocent). I know this is probably  
>something that has been covered in the past, but any help would be  
>greatly appreciated.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.036.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 25 18:05:16 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:05:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading to new mailman version
In-Reply-To: <771587.2974.qm@web25512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803251005160140be06bffc@msapiro>

wolf97 wrote:

>I
>would like to upgrade to a completely new box.  Linux
>Redhat Enterprise and the latest version of mailman
>and postfix.  Is there a way to export/import all my
>existing list from the original server to the new one?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From BIConsulting at blackiris.com  Tue Mar 25 18:24:46 2008
From: BIConsulting at blackiris.com (David Scribner)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:24:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limiting the number of posts from a list member
Message-ID: <D248C709-84DC-423D-BDBE-05C009916D28@blackiris.com>

I am running Mailman 2.1.5 on OSX Tiger server.  Is there any way of  
implementing a limit on the number of daily posts to a list from a  
member?  We have a couple of members on one list that have nothing to  
do but send off posts to the list they belong to, some times 10 - 12  
separate posts within a short period of time.  I would like to be able  
to set a number of allowed posts for them to say 4 or 5 per day.  Is  
this possible?

Thanks

David Scribner
BI Consulting

From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu  Tue Mar 25 19:36:54 2008
From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Chris Waltham)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:36:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.2: automatic newaliases from GUI list
	creation?
Message-ID: <81246618-91F0-4121-8C87-B0F84D54ECB5@bowdoin.edu>

Just a quick question, as it's certainly not a deal-breaker: will  
Mailman 2.2 support appending to /etc/{mail}/aliases, and the  
execution of the newaliases command? I understand that there are  
privilege concerns and security questions involved in this, but I'm  
curious to hear if there's a roadmap for this functionality or if it  
is too low-demand to be included. If it's the latter, my feelings  
won't be hurt! I am curious more than anything.

Thanks,


Chris
Now at Mailman 2.1.9, so I can stop asking Mark questions about  
implementing 2.1 features in 2.0. :)

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Mar 25 19:40:34 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:40:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limiting the number of posts from a list member
In-Reply-To: <D248C709-84DC-423D-BDBE-05C009916D28@blackiris.com>
References: <D248C709-84DC-423D-BDBE-05C009916D28@blackiris.com>
Message-ID: <200803251840.m2PIdiml010168@newbox.eroded.org>

David Scribner sent the message below at 10:24 3/25/2008:
>I am running Mailman 2.1.5 on OSX Tiger server.  Is there any way of
>implementing a limit on the number of daily posts to a list from a
>member?  We have a couple of members on one list that have nothing to
>do but send off posts to the list they belong to, some times 10 - 12
>separate posts within a short period of time.  I would like to be able
>to set a number of allowed posts for them to say 4 or 5 per day.  Is
>this possible?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

The default distribution of mailman does not offer this 
functionality. It would require some custom code to implement.

The only other option you have is to place these members on moderated 
posting and have a human play traffic cop.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 25 20:07:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:07:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.2: automatic newaliases from GUI
	listcreation?
In-Reply-To: <81246618-91F0-4121-8C87-B0F84D54ECB5@bowdoin.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032512074705157c310312@msapiro>

Chris Waltham wrote:

>Just a quick question, as it's certainly not a deal-breaker: will  
>Mailman 2.2 support appending to /etc/{mail}/aliases, and the  
>execution of the newaliases command? I understand that there are  
>privilege concerns and security questions involved in this, but I'm  
>curious to hear if there's a roadmap for this functionality or if it  
>is too low-demand to be included. If it's the latter, my feelings  
>won't be hurt! I am curious more than anything.


This capability already exists for Postfix in Mailman 2.1. The same
functionality can't be directly implemented for Sendmail because of
sendmail's requirements for ownership and permissions of alias files,
but there are ways to do it for sendmail anyway. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.049.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From geoff at wsu.edu  Tue Mar 25 19:56:06 2008
From: geoff at wsu.edu (Allen, Geoff)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:56:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.2: automatic newaliases from GUI
	listcreation?
In-Reply-To: <81246618-91F0-4121-8C87-B0F84D54ECB5@bowdoin.edu>
References: <81246618-91F0-4121-8C87-B0F84D54ECB5@bowdoin.edu>
Message-ID: <5CE2BC7A19C06A439439462B61D12ABD01ADDAC6@EXCHANGEVS-01.ad.wsu.edu>

> Just a quick question, as it's certainly not a deal-breaker: will
> Mailman 2.2 support appending to /etc/{mail}/aliases, and the
> execution of the newaliases command? I understand that there are
> privilege concerns and security questions involved in this, but I'm
> curious to hear if there's a roadmap for this functionality or if it
> is too low-demand to be included. If it's the latter, my feelings
> won't be hurt! I am curious more than anything.

I do this with a cron job that writes the aliases and runs every 5
minutes.

Here is the script in its entirety:

----- begin -----
#!/bin/sh

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases | sed -n '5,$p'
>/etc/mail/mailman-aliases
/usr/bin/newaliases
----- end -----

And I have sendmail read that aliases file with:

----- begin -----
O AliasFile=/etc/mail/aliases, /etc/mail/mailman-aliases
----- end -----

in sendmail.cf.

Geoff

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 25 20:19:49 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:19:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.2: automatic newaliases from
	GUIlistcreation?
In-Reply-To: <5CE2BC7A19C06A439439462B61D12ABD01ADDAC6@EXCHANGEVS-01.ad.wsu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803251219490781ef35307e@msapiro>

Allen, Geoff wrote:
>
>I do this with a cron job that writes the aliases and runs every 5
>minutes.


Cool!

Do you mind if I link your post from the FAQ artical at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.049.htp>?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu  Tue Mar 25 20:34:51 2008
From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Chris Waltham)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:34:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.2: automatic newaliases from GUI
	listcreation?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008032512074705157c310312@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008032512074705157c310312@msapiro>
Message-ID: <547D9FBC-B916-4BFC-9B44-A60B82B7A226@bowdoin.edu>

On Mar 25, 2008, at 3:07 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Chris Waltham wrote:
>
>> Just a quick question, as it's certainly not a deal-breaker: will
>> Mailman 2.2 support appending to /etc/{mail}/aliases, and the
>> execution of the newaliases command? I understand that there are
>> privilege concerns and security questions involved in this, but I'm
>> curious to hear if there's a roadmap for this functionality or if it
>> is too low-demand to be included. If it's the latter, my feelings
>> won't be hurt! I am curious more than anything.
>
>
> This capability already exists for Postfix in Mailman 2.1. The same
> functionality can't be directly implemented for Sendmail because of
> sendmail's requirements for ownership and permissions of alias files,
> but there are ways to do it for sendmail anyway. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.049.htp>

Thanks Mark, I searched the FAQ for "newaliases" and sendmail but  
didn't come up with this one. Thanks!


Chris

>
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu  Tue Mar 25 20:37:52 2008
From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Chris Waltham)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:37:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.2: automatic newaliases from GUI
	listcreation?
In-Reply-To: <5CE2BC7A19C06A439439462B61D12ABD01ADDAC6@EXCHANGEVS-01.ad.wsu.edu>
References: <81246618-91F0-4121-8C87-B0F84D54ECB5@bowdoin.edu>
	<5CE2BC7A19C06A439439462B61D12ABD01ADDAC6@EXCHANGEVS-01.ad.wsu.edu>
Message-ID: <812C76AC-7B78-4292-8587-83F61DD9C151@bowdoin.edu>

On Mar 25, 2008, at 2:56 PM, Allen, Geoff wrote:
>> Just a quick question, as it's certainly not a deal-breaker: will
>> Mailman 2.2 support appending to /etc/{mail}/aliases, and the
>> execution of the newaliases command? I understand that there are
>> privilege concerns and security questions involved in this, but I'm
>> curious to hear if there's a roadmap for this functionality or if it
>> is too low-demand to be included. If it's the latter, my feelings
>> won't be hurt! I am curious more than anything.
>
> I do this with a cron job that writes the aliases and runs every 5
> minutes.

See, I thought of that part already...

> Here is the script in its entirety:
>
> ----- begin -----
> #!/bin/sh
>
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases | sed -n '5,$p'
>> /etc/mail/mailman-aliases
> /usr/bin/newaliases
> ----- end -----
>
> And I have sendmail read that aliases file with:
>
> ----- begin -----
> O AliasFile=/etc/mail/aliases, /etc/mail/mailman-aliases
> ----- end -----
>
> in sendmail.cf.

...but not this part. Nice job!


Chris

>
>
> Geoff


From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Tue Mar 25 23:28:39 2008
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:28:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.2: automatic newaliases from
 GUI	listcreation?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008032512074705157c310312@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008032512074705157c310312@msapiro>
Message-ID: <830C4044AF2DDC92390A2660@[10.169.6.155]>

On Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:07 PM -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 
wrote:

> This capability already exists for Postfix in Mailman 2.1. The same
> functionality can't be directly implemented for Sendmail because of
> sendmail's requirements for ownership and permissions of alias files,
> but there are ways to do it for sendmail anyway.

Doesn't mm-handler address this issue for Sendmail?



From david at hlacik.eu  Tue Mar 25 23:58:05 2008
From: david at hlacik.eu (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?David_Hl=E1=E8ik?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:58:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News Groups (local) mirrored with mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <cba415ca0802040736y481eba52pf894a7d9ae4999bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cba415ca0802040736y481eba52pf894a7d9ae4999bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cba415ca0803251558if46e463j6dd9a8187ba210fb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, i want to know - how synchronization mailinglist <----> news works .

I can set a name of a news group for mailinglist in mailman. Is it all that
is necessary to do? I do understand one way - from mailman to news server,
but what about the other side? How can i achieve it? Hope it is understable
...

Mailman + INN

My next question talks about INN f and pam authentification (pam ldap). Am i
able to configure access to particular groups for particular users? (like
user joe will have acces to com.disc and com.dad , and user ivan will have
access only to com.disc ) ?

Thanks in advance!

Davic

On Mon, Feb 4, 2008 at 4:36 PM, David Hl??ik <david at hlacik.eu> wrote:

> Hi to all , i am looking for a solution to provide :
>
> News Groups (local) mirrored with mailinglistsn a
> Best solution i see is INN + mailman.
>
> What i am looking for is some script which will make my life easier.
>
> I want to be able to automatically create News Group with same Mailinglist
> name .
> I want to be able to have a user -based access to a particular news
> groups.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> David
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 26 01:32:42 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:32:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.2: automatic newaliases
	fromGUI	listcreation?
In-Reply-To: <830C4044AF2DDC92390A2660@[10.169.6.155]>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032517324208905bcdcc64@msapiro>

Kenneth Porter wrote:

>On Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:07 PM -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 
>wrote:
>
>> This capability already exists for Postfix in Mailman 2.1. The same
>> functionality can't be directly implemented for Sendmail because of
>> sendmail's requirements for ownership and permissions of alias files,
>> but there are ways to do it for sendmail anyway.
>
>Doesn't mm-handler address this issue for Sendmail?


Yes, but the original question was about aliases specifically and
mm-handler is unsupported and is only really suitable for sites that
have a dedicated domain name for their lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 26 01:53:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:53:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News Groups (local) mirrored with mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <cba415ca0803251558if46e463j6dd9a8187ba210fb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cba415ca0802040736y481eba52pf894a7d9ae4999bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<cba415ca0803251558if46e463j6dd9a8187ba210fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47E99E8E.30305@msapiro.net>

David Hl?ik wrote:
> Hi, i want to know - how synchronization mailinglist <----> news works .
> 
> I can set a name of a news group for mailinglist in mailman. Is it all that
> is necessary to do? I do understand one way - from mailman to news server,
> but what about the other side? How can i achieve it? Hope it is understable
> ...


You set the list attribute gateway_to_mail to Yes, and mailman's 
gate_news cron which runs every 5 minutes by default polls the newsgroup 
for new posts.
	

> Mailman + INN
> 
> My next question talks about INN f and pam authentification (pam ldap). Am i
> able to configure access to particular groups for particular users? (like
> user joe will have acces to com.disc and com.dad , and user ivan will have
> access only to com.disc ) ?


I'm not sure what you're asking, but there are no user level controls on 
either direction in Mailman. If you gate mail to news, all list posts, 
regardless of poster, go to the newsgroup, and in the other direction, 
all newsgroup posts go to the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zszalbot at gmail.com  Wed Mar 26 09:26:29 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:26:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman discarding messages
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080325092604078105cc27f1@msapiro>
References: <94136a2c0803250003n569796dcm5ad163ed2b400d67@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC176020080325092604078105cc27f1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0803260126r1fd250f7vccb7430324a17226@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Mark and others!

2008/3/25, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> Zbigniew Szalbot
>
> >
>  >Is there anything else I can check? I am about to delete the members
>  >as this was time-limited subscription but we wanted to send a final
>  >thank you message to them and frustrating as it is, we can't do that.
>
>
>
> You can edit Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py as follows:
>
>  Find the code in the do_pipeline() method that says
>
>             except Errors.DiscardMessage:
>                 # Throw the message away; we need do nothing else with
>  it.
>                 syslog('vette', 'Message discarded, msgid: %s',
>                        msg.get('message-id', 'n/a'))
>                 return 0
>
>  and change it to
>
>             except Errors.DiscardMessage:
>                 # Throw the message away; we need do nothing else with
>  it.
>                 syslog('vette', 'Message discarded by %s, msgid: %s',
>                        handler, msg.get('message-id', 'n/a'))
>                 return 0
>
>  and then restart Mailman.

Thanks a lot!

Mar 26 09:20:52 2008 (90638) easter post from email_address held,
message-id=<47EA075C.8000003 at slowo.pl>: Post to moderated list

I think the main difference now is that I have removed all the 700
subscribers to the list (as the mailing is over) and added two test
addresses. If this happens again, your patch will make it easier for
me to spot the problem. For the time being thank you very much!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From mangoo at wpkg.org  Wed Mar 26 14:53:12 2008
From: mangoo at wpkg.org (Tomasz Chmielewski)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:53:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman does not deliver messages any more
Message-ID: <47EA5548.5040108@wpkg.org>

Recently, Mailman stopped delivering messages to list members, 
administrators etc.

The messages are archived just fine, I can browse them in a web 
interface, but it looks like Mailman does not want to deliver any 
message any more.


There is nothing interesting in Mailman logs, nothing in mail server logs.

The server had a crash recently, but everything else works just fine and 
I have really no idea what should I look for.

Any clues?


-- 
Tomasz Chmielewski
http://wpkg.org


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 26 16:07:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:07:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman does not deliver messages any more
In-Reply-To: <47EA5548.5040108@wpkg.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803260807520812c4f6d840@msapiro>

Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:

>Recently, Mailman stopped delivering messages to list members, 
>administrators etc.
>
>The messages are archived just fine, I can browse them in a web 
>interface, but it looks like Mailman does not want to deliver any 
>message any more.
>
>
>There is nothing interesting in Mailman logs, nothing in mail server logs.
>
>The server had a crash recently, but everything else works just fine and 
>I have really no idea what should I look for.


Is OutgoingRunner running? Are the messages queued in qfiles/out/ ?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From admin at cordite.com  Wed Mar 26 16:37:14 2008
From: admin at cordite.com (Admin)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:37:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding html to the Archive page
Message-ID: <2916CF7D-14D1-4005-9C8F-EE76610851A6@cordite.com>

I was unable to find anything searching this list.

Is there a simple way to add html to the archive output pages?  I want  
to change the look and feel of every message in the archives, adding  
headers and footers there.

Thanks

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 26 16:58:41 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:58:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding html to the Archive page
In-Reply-To: <2916CF7D-14D1-4005-9C8F-EE76610851A6@cordite.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803260858410000a8e8ae89@msapiro>

Admin wrote:
>
>Is there a simple way to add html to the archive output pages?  I want  
>to change the look and feel of every message in the archives, adding  
>headers and footers there.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.

The templates you are interested in are article.html and perhaps some
of arch*.html. After making modified templates (probably in the
templates/site/ directory), you'll need to restart Mailman and rebuild
the archives with 'bin/arch --wipe'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From antonioguerrero at cienciasambientales.com  Wed Mar 26 18:53:14 2008
From: antonioguerrero at cienciasambientales.com (CienciasAmbientales.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:53:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] export mailman lists
Message-ID: <C77BDFB8CA8D4AB3A7D38EF8BADD4489@Negret>


I have search in the FAQ and ARCHIVE but not find a solution to
migrate/export the mailman lists (users, config options, etc.) from one
Server to another. Any help or link? 

Thanks
Greetings from Spain.
Antonio


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Mar 26 19:26:02 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:26:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] export mailman lists
In-Reply-To: <C77BDFB8CA8D4AB3A7D38EF8BADD4489@Negret>
References: <C77BDFB8CA8D4AB3A7D38EF8BADD4489@Negret>
Message-ID: <200803261825.m2QIP2Ya026658@newbox.eroded.org>

CienciasAmbientales.com sent the message below at 10:53 3/26/2008:

>I have search in the FAQ and ARCHIVE but not find a solution to
>migrate/export the mailman lists (users, config options, etc.) from one
>Server to another. Any help or link?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

It's in the FAQ. How did you search for it?

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mangoo at wpkg.org  Wed Mar 26 19:53:53 2008
From: mangoo at wpkg.org (Tomasz Chmielewski)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:53:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman does not deliver messages any more
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803260807520812c4f6d840@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200803260807520812c4f6d840@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47EA9BC1.4030504@wpkg.org>

Mark Sapiro schrieb:
> Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:
> 
>> Recently, Mailman stopped delivering messages to list members, 
>> administrators etc.
>>
>> The messages are archived just fine, I can browse them in a web 
>> interface, but it looks like Mailman does not want to deliver any 
>> message any more.
>>
>>
>> There is nothing interesting in Mailman logs, nothing in mail server logs.
>>
>> The server had a crash recently, but everything else works just fine and 
>> I have really no idea what should I look for.
> 
> 
> Is OutgoingRunner running? Are the messages queued in qfiles/out/ ?
> 
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>

OutgoingRunner was running, and there were messages in qfiles/out. Other 
points from that FAQ entry didn't apply much as well.

Simply restarting Mailman helped (why didn't I do it in the first place? 
I guess I'm just not accustomed to restarting), but I'm still not sure 
of the reason it stopped delivering messages.

Thanks for help.


-- 
Tomasz Chmielewski
http://wpkg.org

From haroldp at sierraweb.com  Wed Mar 26 22:36:24 2008
From: haroldp at sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:36:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list_lists -V is omitting a list
Message-ID: <846DE277-2937-48B1-9388-EA4548EDFBE7@sierraweb.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello,

When I run

   # bin/list_lists

without arguments, it shows all of my lists, as I would expect.   
However, when I run:

   # bin/list_lists -V dom.ain

It is omitting one list associated with that dom.ain, which I  
recently created.  The list's host_name is set correctly (verified  
with config_list), and it works otherwise.  Any ideas why it isn't  
showing up in list_lists -V?

Thanks.

	- H





-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFH6sHYOy/dHTCUq6oRAnJoAKDTDjyJpkPgr6J8TDTFmfTWc0CuZgCeLhC+
kZld2EPHAbnRichBzP6Xlm4=
=J+0D
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 26 23:24:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:24:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list_lists -V is omitting a list
In-Reply-To: <846DE277-2937-48B1-9388-EA4548EDFBE7@sierraweb.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032615243406568da69ab2@msapiro>

Harold Paulson wrote:
>
>When I run
>
>   # bin/list_lists
>
>without arguments, it shows all of my lists, as I would expect.   
>However, when I run:
>
>   # bin/list_lists -V dom.ain
>
>It is omitting one list associated with that dom.ain, which I  
>recently created.  The list's host_name is set correctly (verified  
>with config_list), and it works otherwise.  Any ideas why it isn't  
>showing up in list_lists -V?


Because dom.ain is not the web host in the list's hidden web_page_url
attribute. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.017.htp>
and the other articles linked therefrom.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From steve at marmot.org  Thu Mar 27 00:06:08 2008
From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:06:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how do I delete a pending subsc request for the
	mailman list
Message-ID: <47EAD6E0.8060004@marmot.org>

When I installed mailman a default list called mailman was created (as 
I'm sure everyone here already knows) and I understood it was not used 
for anything but management.  I've pretty much ignored it since the 
initial installation.

Anyway, a member of one of our other lists somehow got herself listed as 
requesting a subscription to the mailman list.  I keep getting this 
message every morning:

> The Mailman at marmot.org mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting for your
> consideration at:
> 
> 	http://email.marmot.org/mailman/admindb/mailman
> 	
> Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
> pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.
> 
> Pending subscriptions:
>     xx.xxx at colostate-pueblo.edu (Xxx, Xx) Mon Mar 17 13:36:44 2008

Following the provided link doesn't take me to the usual login page, 
instead I end up on the generic listinfo page 
(email.marmot.org/mailman/listinfo).

I can log into the list management interface for the mailman list, but 
when I click on the link to "Tend to pending moderator requests" I end 
up on the same general listinfo page instead.

I found the controlling file(s) in /var/mailman/lists/mailman... 
leastwise the members name and address are in the request.pck file.  Can 
I simply delete request.pck (and/or request.db) to clear this?  Is there 
anything else I need to do to clear the pending subscription?  Thanks!

--
Steve Lindemann                         __
Network Administrator                  //\\  ASCII Ribbon Campaign
Marmot Library Network, Inc.           \\//  against HTML/RTF email,
   url: http://www.marmot.org           //\\  vCards & M$ attachments
email: mailto:steve at marmot.org
voice: +1.970.242.3331 ext 116
   fax: +1.970.245.7854


From jmwhitco at samford.edu  Thu Mar 27 00:01:21 2008
From: jmwhitco at samford.edu (Whitcomb, Jeff)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:01:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.6 and Office 2007 documents
Message-ID: <821AB4E5068CAB43A2539D4DD81F38E30EDA17A9@SAMFORDMAIL.ad.samford.edu>

Has anyone run into issues with the Barracuda SPAM filter catching
emails sent through mailman 2.1.6 with the new Office 2007 format
documents attached?  The email admin says Barracuda is seeing the
messages as containing a .zip attachment, not a .docx attachment.  We
disabled the .zip filtering temporarily to work around the problem.  The
email admin is contacting Barracuda to see if this is there problem, and
I thought I would ping here to see if others might be having the same
problem.

 

Thanks in advance for any help or light you can shed on this issue.

 

Jeff Whitcomb
Technology Services Manager
Member: Staff Advisory Council

Cumberland School of Law - Samford University
205-726-4662

 

P Think before you print

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 27 02:49:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:49:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how do I delete a pending subsc request for
	themailman list
In-Reply-To: <47EAD6E0.8060004@marmot.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803261849010875bb981f6c@msapiro>

Steve Lindemann wrote:
>
>> The Mailman at marmot.org mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting for your
>> consideration at:
>> 
>> 	http://email.marmot.org/mailman/admindb/mailman
>> 	
<snip>
>
>Following the provided link doesn't take me to the usual login page, 
>instead I end up on the generic listinfo page 
>(email.marmot.org/mailman/listinfo).
>
>I can log into the list management interface for the mailman list, but 
>when I click on the link to "Tend to pending moderator requests" I end 
>up on the same general listinfo page instead.


The underlying problem is in your web server config. Assuming apache,
you probably have something like

RedirectMatch /mailman[/]*$   /mailman/listinfo

This needs to be anchored as in

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$   /mailman/listinfo

As a workaround, you can go to
http://email.marmot.org/mailman/admindb/mailman/x which will work
because the 'x' doesn't match in the redirect and it is igmored by the
admindb cgi. I don't recall for sure if the subsequent post will work
or have the same problem.


>I found the controlling file(s) in /var/mailman/lists/mailman... 
>leastwise the members name and address are in the request.pck file.  Can 
>I simply delete request.pck (and/or request.db) to clear this?  Is there 
>anything else I need to do to clear the pending subscription?  Thanks!


Yes, you can just delete request.pck (request.db is left over from
pre-2.1.5 and is not used).

There may also have been a pending subscription in pending.pck, but
it's probably expired by now.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 27 04:03:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:03:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.6 and Office 2007 documents
In-Reply-To: <821AB4E5068CAB43A2539D4DD81F38E30EDA17A9@SAMFORDMAIL.ad.samford.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803262003140406dcfc0304@msapiro>

Whitcomb, Jeff wrote:

>Has anyone run into issues with the Barracuda SPAM filter catching
>emails sent through mailman 2.1.6 with the new Office 2007 format
>documents attached?  The email admin says Barracuda is seeing the
>messages as containing a .zip attachment, not a .docx attachment.  We
>disabled the .zip filtering temporarily to work around the problem.  The
>email admin is contacting Barracuda to see if this is there problem, and
>I thought I would ping here to see if others might be having the same
>problem.


OT, but...

docx files are zip archives containing a number of xml files, so
Barracuda is recognizing the file by its content rather than by
extension.

Perhaps Barracuda would be willing/able to make their appliance perform
a more in depth content analysis to determine if this zip file appears
to be a docx or open document or Google Earth .kmz or other known file
type which is in fact a zip archive of other files, but apparently
they do not currently do this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Mar 27 04:13:25 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:13:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.6 and Office 2007 documents
In-Reply-To: <821AB4E5068CAB43A2539D4DD81F38E30EDA17A9@SAMFORDMAIL.ad.samford.edu>
References: <821AB4E5068CAB43A2539D4DD81F38E30EDA17A9@SAMFORDMAIL.ad.samford.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240801c410c11e3414@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/26/08, Whitcomb, Jeff wrote:

>  Has anyone run into issues with the Barracuda SPAM filter catching
>  emails sent through mailman 2.1.6 with the new Office 2007 format
>  documents attached?  The email admin says Barracuda is seeing the
>  messages as containing a .zip attachment, not a .docx attachment.  We
>  disabled the .zip filtering temporarily to work around the problem.  The
>  email admin is contacting Barracuda to see if this is there problem, and
>  I thought I would ping here to see if others might be having the same
>  problem.

Note that .docx *IS* a ZIP file.  See 
<http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=73329>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 27 05:31:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:31:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman does not deliver messages any more
In-Reply-To: <47EA9BC1.4030504@wpkg.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032621313502031623502e@msapiro>

Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:
>
>OutgoingRunner was running, and there were messages in qfiles/out. Other 
>points from that FAQ entry didn't apply much as well.


If there were messages in qfiles/out/, but they weren't being picked up
by OutgoingRunner, OutgoingRunner was in some funny state or it may
have been hung waiting for a low level SMTP response.


>Simply restarting Mailman helped (why didn't I do it in the first place? 
>I guess I'm just not accustomed to restarting), but I'm still not sure 
>of the reason it stopped delivering messages.


For whatever reason, OoutgongRunner wasn't doing its job. Restarting
Mailman got it going again. Possibly something as simple as sending it
a SIGHUP would have started it too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jmwhitco at samford.edu  Thu Mar 27 14:55:52 2008
From: jmwhitco at samford.edu (Whitcomb, Jeff)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:55:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.6 and Office 2007 documents
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13.1206615606.11611.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.13.1206615606.11611.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <821AB4E5068CAB43A2539D4DD81F38E30EDA1861@SAMFORDMAIL.ad.samford.edu>

Mark,

Thanks for the reply.  I guess I forgot to mention that Barracuda is only catching the mail with the Office 2007 attachment if it was sent to a list for delivery.  If I send an email directly to another person on campus, not using a list, then the message delivers fine.

Jeff Whitcomb
Technology Services Manager
Member: Staff Advisory Council
Cumberland School of Law - Samford University
205-726-4662

? Think before you print

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+jmwhitco=samford.edu at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+jmwhitco=samford.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of mailman-users-request at python.org
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 6:00 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 49, Issue 49

Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
	mailman-users at python.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	mailman-users-request at python.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	mailman-users-owner at python.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: how do I delete a pending subsc request for	themailman
      list (Mark Sapiro)
   2. Re: Mailman 2.1.6 and Office 2007 documents (Mark Sapiro)
   3. Re: Mailman 2.1.6 and Office 2007 documents (Brad Knowles)
   4. Re: Mailman does not deliver messages any more (Mark Sapiro)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:49:01 -0700
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] how do I delete a pending subsc request
	for	themailman list
To: Steve Lindemann <steve at marmot.org>,	mailman-users at python.org
Message-ID: <PC1760200803261849010875bb981f6c at msapiro>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Steve Lindemann wrote:
>
>> The Mailman at marmot.org mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting for your
>> consideration at:
>> 
>> 	http://email.marmot.org/mailman/admindb/mailman
>> 	
<snip>
>
>Following the provided link doesn't take me to the usual login page, 
>instead I end up on the generic listinfo page 
>(email.marmot.org/mailman/listinfo).
>
>I can log into the list management interface for the mailman list, but 
>when I click on the link to "Tend to pending moderator requests" I end 
>up on the same general listinfo page instead.


The underlying problem is in your web server config. Assuming apache,
you probably have something like

RedirectMatch /mailman[/]*$   /mailman/listinfo

This needs to be anchored as in

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$   /mailman/listinfo

As a workaround, you can go to
http://email.marmot.org/mailman/admindb/mailman/x which will work
because the 'x' doesn't match in the redirect and it is igmored by the
admindb cgi. I don't recall for sure if the subsequent post will work
or have the same problem.


>I found the controlling file(s) in /var/mailman/lists/mailman... 
>leastwise the members name and address are in the request.pck file.  Can 
>I simply delete request.pck (and/or request.db) to clear this?  Is there 
>anything else I need to do to clear the pending subscription?  Thanks!


Yes, you can just delete request.pck (request.db is left over from
pre-2.1.5 and is not used).

There may also have been a pending subscription in pending.pck, but
it's probably expired by now.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:03:14 -0700
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.6 and Office 2007 documents
To: "Whitcomb, Jeff" <jmwhitco at samford.edu>,
	<mailman-users at python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803262003140406dcfc0304 at msapiro>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Whitcomb, Jeff wrote:

>Has anyone run into issues with the Barracuda SPAM filter catching
>emails sent through mailman 2.1.6 with the new Office 2007 format
>documents attached?  The email admin says Barracuda is seeing the
>messages as containing a .zip attachment, not a .docx attachment.  We
>disabled the .zip filtering temporarily to work around the problem.  The
>email admin is contacting Barracuda to see if this is there problem, and
>I thought I would ping here to see if others might be having the same
>problem.


OT, but...

docx files are zip archives containing a number of xml files, so
Barracuda is recognizing the file by its content rather than by
extension.

Perhaps Barracuda would be willing/able to make their appliance perform
a more in depth content analysis to determine if this zip file appears
to be a docx or open document or Google Earth .kmz or other known file
type which is in fact a zip archive of other files, but apparently
they do not currently do this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:13:25 -0500
From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.6 and Office 2007 documents
To: "Whitcomb, Jeff" <jmwhitco at samford.edu>,
	<mailman-users at python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240801c410c11e3414@[192.168.1.199]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

On 3/26/08, Whitcomb, Jeff wrote:

>  Has anyone run into issues with the Barracuda SPAM filter catching
>  emails sent through mailman 2.1.6 with the new Office 2007 format
>  documents attached?  The email admin says Barracuda is seeing the
>  messages as containing a .zip attachment, not a .docx attachment.  We
>  disabled the .zip filtering temporarily to work around the problem.  The
>  email admin is contacting Barracuda to see if this is there problem, and
>  I thought I would ping here to see if others might be having the same
>  problem.

Note that .docx *IS* a ZIP file.  See 
<http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=73329>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:31:35 -0700
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman does not deliver messages any
	more
To: Tomasz Chmielewski <mangoo at wpkg.org>
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Message-ID: <PC17602008032621313502031623502e at msapiro>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:
>
>OutgoingRunner was running, and there were messages in qfiles/out. Other 
>points from that FAQ entry didn't apply much as well.


If there were messages in qfiles/out/, but they weren't being picked up
by OutgoingRunner, OutgoingRunner was in some funny state or it may
have been hung waiting for a low level SMTP response.


>Simply restarting Mailman helped (why didn't I do it in the first place? 
>I guess I'm just not accustomed to restarting), but I'm still not sure 
>of the reason it stopped delivering messages.


For whatever reason, OoutgongRunner wasn't doing its job. Restarting
Mailman got it going again. Possibly something as simple as sending it
a SIGHUP would have started it too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

End of Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 49, Issue 49
*********************************************

From smartin at managementconcepts.com  Thu Mar 27 16:06:13 2008
From: smartin at managementconcepts.com (Stephen Martin)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:06:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the From: field
Message-ID: <ED9316B2-E7C4-4F12-802B-081D339A5275@managementconcepts.com>

This is a silly thing that should be easy, but I cannot for the life  
of me find the setting.  I have a list that is now sending all  
messages with the list name and e-mail address in the FROM: header.   
For example, if the list were named MYLIST and I sent the message, the  
FROM: header is "MYLIST [mylist at mydomain.tld>" instead of "Stephen  
Martin <smartin at managementconcepts.com>".  This new behavor (with the  
list name instead of the sender name) is not what I want (and not what  
the list used to do).  I want the list to show the actual sender.  I  
don't know how the configuration got changed, and I can't seem to find  
what changed to make it go back to the way it used to be.

--
Stephen Martin
Director
Learning Technologies
MANAGEMENTCONCEPTS
8230 Leesburg Pike
Vienna, VA 22182
tel 703.270.4096
fax 703.790.1930
smartin at managementconcepts.com
http://www.managementconcepts.com





From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Mar 27 16:50:39 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:50:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the From: field
In-Reply-To: <ED9316B2-E7C4-4F12-802B-081D339A5275@managementconcepts.co
 m>
References: <ED9316B2-E7C4-4F12-802B-081D339A5275@managementconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <200803271549.m2RFnVTB024572@newbox.eroded.org>

Stephen Martin sent the message below at 08:06 3/27/2008:
>This is a silly thing that should be easy, but I cannot for the life
>of me find the setting.  I have a list that is now sending all
>messages with the list name and e-mail address in the FROM: header.
>For example, if the list were named MYLIST and I sent the message, the
>FROM: header is "MYLIST [mylist at mydomain.tld>" instead of "Stephen
>Martin <smartin at managementconcepts.com>".  This new behavor (with the
>list name instead of the sender name) is not what I want (and not what
>the list used to do).  I want the list to show the actual sender.  I
>don't know how the configuration got changed, and I can't seem to find
>what changed to make it go back to the way it used to be.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Sounds like this list has been set to be an anonymous list.

Check the anonymous_list setting on the main list options page.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From par at hunter-gatherer.org  Thu Mar 27 17:01:42 2008
From: par at hunter-gatherer.org (Par Leijonhufvud)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:01:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-gateway
In-Reply-To: <47E99E8E.30305@msapiro.net>
References: <cba415ca0802040736y481eba52pf894a7d9ae4999bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<cba415ca0803251558if46e463j6dd9a8187ba210fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<47E99E8E.30305@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20080327160142.GE16117@sitsika>

I'm trying to set up the news gateway. But it only appears to work one
way; from the mailinglist to the (local) newsserver. Any idea where the
problem may lie?

/Par

-- 
Par Leijonhufvud                               par at hunter-gatherer.org
MBA or equivalent work experience, say, two weeks
		-- Seth Breidbart

From mrsun2001 at yahoo.de  Thu Mar 27 17:37:51 2008
From: mrsun2001 at yahoo.de (Ralf Wiegand)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:37:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Controlling out going messages & Disabling "who
	<password>"
Message-ID: <834435.20606.qm@web25506.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Mailman-Users at python.org

Q1: Controlling out going messages
I have large groups 60k plus.  may are going to yahoo
or google accounts.  If you send to many at once,
yahoo or google will black list you.  Is there a way
to send out the list email in , say 100 users at a
time?


Q2:Disabling "who <password>"
I noticed you can send an email to
mailman-list-request at mydomain.com  and put into the
subject line "who <passwd>" and the
list server will send you the list of all people
subscribed to this list.
How do I disabled this?


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 27 17:59:21 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:59:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Controlling out going messages & Disabling
	"who<password>"
In-Reply-To: <834435.20606.qm@web25506.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080327095921018755e4a650@msapiro>

Ralf Wiegand wrote:
>
>Q1: Controlling out going messages
>I have large groups 60k plus.  may are going to yahoo
>or google accounts.  If you send to many at once,
>yahoo or google will black list you.  Is there a way
>to send out the list email in , say 100 users at a
>time?


Short of modifying Mailman's delivery code which would probably just
result in Mailman's message delivery becoming hoplessly backlogged,
there's no way to do this in Mailman.

What you have to do is negotiate with Yahoo, Google, etc. To accept
your list mail. If you can convince them that your list traffic is
legitimate, you may succeed in getting your lists whitelisted.

On the other hand, if the issue is not the number of total recipients,
but rather the number of recipients per SMTP transaction, you can set
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS in mm_cfg.py. This controls the maximum number of
recipients in one SMTP transaction.


>Q2:Disabling "who <password>"
>I noticed you can send an email to
>mailman-list-request at mydomain.com  and put into the
>subject line "who <passwd>" and the
>list server will send you the list of all people
>subscribed to this list.
>How do I disabled this?


Assuming you want to disable this for list members as opposed to
someone authenticating with the list password, set Privacy
options...->Subscription rules->private_roster to "List admin only".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 27 17:37:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:37:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-gateway
In-Reply-To: <20080327160142.GE16117@sitsika>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032709371700935e94eece@msapiro>

Par Leijonhufvud wrote:

>I'm trying to set up the news gateway. But it only appears to work one
>way; from the mailinglist to the (local) newsserver. Any idea where the
>problem may lie?


Check Mailman's crontab (crontab -l -u mailman) to be sure the
gate_news entry is not commented or removed.

# Every 5 mins, try to gate news to mail.  You can comment this one out
# if you don't want to allow gating, or don't have any going on right
now,
# or want to exclusively use a callback strategy instead of polling.
0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * /usr/bin/python -S
/cygdrive/f/test-mailman/cron/gate_news
 
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 27 17:34:05 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:34:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.6 and Office 2007 documents
In-Reply-To: <821AB4E5068CAB43A2539D4DD81F38E30EDA1861@SAMFORDMAIL.ad.samford.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032709340500935e94eec2@msapiro>

Whitcomb, Jeff wrote:
>
>Thanks for the reply.  I guess I forgot to mention that Barracuda is only catching the mail with the Office 2007 attachment if it was sent to a list for delivery.  If I send an email directly to another person on campus, not using a list, then the message delivers fine.


I don't know what Mailman would be doing to such a message that would
cause it to be filtered by Barracuda.

Or are you saying that Barracuda catches it on the way to the list as
opposed to from the list. That would be even more of a mystery.

Since Barracuda undoubtedly has all sorts of proprietary trade secret
things that it does, I think you would have to persue this with them
to the extent that they are willing to help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Thu Mar 27 18:35:25 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:35:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating new virtual lists
Message-ID: <a0623092ac40e3b2d00f7@[192.168.33.3]>

Hi again,

I'm still having a little trouble with virtual hosts, but most of it 
is now working properly.  Thanks for all the assistance.

What's the correct syntax for Virtual_Hosts {} in Defaults.py? I keep 
getting errors when I try to put something there.

I need to set moderation of new accounts (including any which are 
subscribed and confirmed from here forward) to OFF.  Where is that 
setting? I see the one to toggle moderation on/off for all current 
subscribers on the main Membership List page, but that doesn't appear 
to affect new subscribers.

Despite "Mod" being unchecked, all posts from my test subscribers 
result in an email to the list admin with:

	As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
	following mailing list posting:

     List:    xxxxxx at xxxxxr.xxx
     From:    xxxxx at gmail.com
     Subject: And another test
     Reason:  Message has implicit destination

What does that mean?
-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From par at hunter-gatherer.org  Thu Mar 27 20:15:14 2008
From: par at hunter-gatherer.org (Par Leijonhufvud)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:15:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-gateway
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008032709371700935e94eece@msapiro>
References: <20080327160142.GE16117@sitsika>
	<PC17602008032709371700935e94eece@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080327191514.GF16117@sitsika>

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> [2008.03.27] wrote:
> Par Leijonhufvud wrote:
> 
> >I'm trying to set up the news gateway. But it only appears to work one
> >way; from the mailinglist to the (local) newsserver. Any idea where the
> >problem may lie?
> 
> 
> Check Mailman's crontab (crontab -l -u mailman) to be sure the
> gate_news entry is not commented or removed.
> 
> # Every 5 mins, try to gate news to mail.  You can comment this one out
> # if you don't want to allow gating, or don't have any going on right
> now,
> # or want to exclusively use a callback strategy instead of polling.
> 0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * /usr/bin/python -S
> /cygdrive/f/test-mailman/cron/gate_news


Nope, that is there and uncommented. Nor does it make a diffeence when
run manually.  I have localhost allowed as per default in INNs
readers.conf, and then some special bits to control access to different
groups for different users. But the fact that it woerks one way is
confusing me; it should work both ways or none AF?ICT (INN newbie
though).

/Par

-- 
Par Leijonhufvud                               par at hunter-gatherer.org
"Those who restrain Desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be
restrained" 		-- William Blake

From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Thu Mar 27 20:48:27 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:48:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating new virtual lists
In-Reply-To: <47EBF18A.2090802@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <a0623092ac40e3b2d00f7@[192.168.33.3]>
	<47EBF18A.2090802@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <a0623097cc411a967d792@[192.168.33.3]>

At 3:12 PM -0400 3/27/08, Charles Marcus wrote:
>On 3/27/2008, billc (billc_lists at greenbuilder.com) wrote:
>>      Reason:  Message has implicit destination
>>
>>What does that mean?
>
>The list address needs to be in either the To or CC field - its 
>probably BCC'd...

No, the mail is delivered to a Gmail account and pulled down from 
there using Fetchmail and dropped into Mailman.  No CCs or BCCs.

I *did* have to do some extra backflips with Gmail, as I currently 
have to wait 5 days before I can recreate the correct account name  - 
I have discusion@ set up as an email list which forwards to 
discussion2@ until Gmail lets me out of the penalty box for having 
just deleted an account named discussion at .   Perhaps that's where the 
problem lies.

Hopefully I'll be able to get that one to go away in 5 days.


-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Mar 27 20:57:20 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:57:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating new virtual lists
In-Reply-To: <a0623092ac40e3b2d00f7@[192.168.33.3]>
References: <a0623092ac40e3b2d00f7@[192.168.33.3]>
Message-ID: <200803271956.m2RJuACo028678@newbox.eroded.org>

billc sent the message below at 10:35 3/27/2008:
>Hi again,
>
>I'm still having a little trouble with virtual hosts, but most of it
>is now working properly.  Thanks for all the assistance.
>
>What's the correct syntax for Virtual_Hosts {} in Defaults.py? I keep
>getting errors when I try to put something there.


OK, you should NEVER edit Defaults.py

You put any overrides of any default values in mm_cfg.py

The reason for this is that Defaults.py gets overwritten on an 
upgrade of the mailman code while mm_cfg.py does not.

Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the virtual host stuff to 
help you as I don't use it myself.

>I need to set moderation of new accounts (including any which are
>subscribed and confirmed from here forward) to OFF.  Where is that
>setting? I see the one to toggle moderation on/off for all current
>subscribers on the main Membership List page, but that doesn't appear
>to affect new subscribers.

That is default_member_moderation setting on the Privacy Options -> 
Sender Filters page.

You will also want to look at the settings for 
member_moderation_action and member_moderation_notice while you are 
there to set them as appropriate.

>Despite "Mod" being unchecked, all posts from my test subscribers
>result in an email to the list admin with:
>
>         As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
>         following mailing list posting:
>
>      List:    xxxxxx at xxxxxr.xxx
>      From:    xxxxx at gmail.com
>      Subject: And another test
>      Reason:  Message has implicit destination
>
>What does that mean?

It means that the list address or an acceptable alias did not appear 
in the To: or CC: headers of the e-mail. You will get this if you 
BCC: a list. You can turn this off if you like if you set 
require_explicit_destination to NO on the Privacy Options -> 
Recipient filters page.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Mar 27 21:04:15 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:04:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating new virtual lists
In-Reply-To: <a0623097cc411a967d792@[192.168.33.3]>
References: <a0623092ac40e3b2d00f7@[192.168.33.3]>
	<47EBF18A.2090802@Media-Brokers.com>
	<a0623097cc411a967d792@[192.168.33.3]>
Message-ID: <200803272003.m2RK35eD028822@newbox.eroded.org>

billc sent the message below at 12:48 3/27/2008:
>At 3:12 PM -0400 3/27/08, Charles Marcus wrote:
> >On 3/27/2008, billc (billc_lists at greenbuilder.com) wrote:
> >>      Reason:  Message has implicit destination
> >>
> >>What does that mean?
> >
> >The list address needs to be in either the To or CC field - its
> >probably BCC'd...
>
>No, the mail is delivered to a Gmail account and pulled down from
>there using Fetchmail and dropped into Mailman.  No CCs or BCCs.
>
>I *did* have to do some extra backflips with Gmail, as I currently
>have to wait 5 days before I can recreate the correct account name  -
>I have discusion@ set up as an email list which forwards to
>discussion2@ until Gmail lets me out of the penalty box for having
>just deleted an account named discussion at .   Perhaps that's where the
>problem lies.
>
>Hopefully I'll be able to get that one to go away in 5 days.
>
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Umm... why on earth are you doing that? It sounds convoluted and 
unnecessary to me (in fact, I think it is downright weird).

The list address must appear in the To: or CC: header of the e-mail 
delivered to mailman or an acceptable list alias can be present. The 
only other option is to have require_explicit_destination set to NO 
(which is not recommended).

Probably the best way to deal with this in your case with this weird 
configuration is to have the gmail address you are sending to added 
to acceptable_aliases on the Privacy Options -> Recipient filters page.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From jimc at nmcourts.com  Thu Mar 27 21:03:16 2008
From: jimc at nmcourts.com (Jim Coberly)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:03:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating new virtual lists
In-Reply-To: <a0623097cc411a967d792@[192.168.33.3]>
References: <a0623092ac40e3b2d00f7@[192.168.33.3]>	<47EBF18A.2090802@Media-Brokers.com>
	<a0623097cc411a967d792@[192.168.33.3]>
Message-ID: <47EBFD84.9080300@nmcourts.com>

billc wrote:
> At 3:12 PM -0400 3/27/08, Charles Marcus wrote:
>> On 3/27/2008, billc (billc_lists at greenbuilder.com) wrote:
>>>      Reason:  Message has implicit destination
>>>
>>> What does that mean?
>> The list address needs to be in either the To or CC field - its 
>> probably BCC'd...
> 
> No, the mail is delivered to a Gmail account and pulled down from 
> there using Fetchmail and dropped into Mailman.  No CCs or BCCs.
> 
> I *did* have to do some extra backflips with Gmail, as I currently 
> have to wait 5 days before I can recreate the correct account name  - 
> I have discusion@ set up as an email list which forwards to 
> discussion2@ until Gmail lets me out of the penalty box for having 
> just deleted an account named discussion at .   Perhaps that's where the 
> problem lies.
> 
> Hopefully I'll be able to get that one to go away in 5 days.
> 
> 
If a list is made up of other lists, in other words, main at server.net has 
as members list1 at server.net and list2 at server.net and so forth - and if 
implicit addressing is not allowed in those member lists, then messages 
from an authorized member of main at server.net will generate the Reason: 
Message has implicit destination message.  One way around that is to 
turn off "Must posts have list named in destination (to, cc) field (or 
be among the acceptable alias names, specified below)?" in the Privacy 
options, Recipient filters section.

Jim
-- 
This email is the opinion of the author and is not an official 
communication of the New Mexico Judicial Branch.


Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including all attachments, is for 
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential 
and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or 
distribution is prohibited unless specifically provided under the New 
Mexico Inspection of Public Records Act. If you are not the intended 
recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of this 
message.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 27 22:00:30 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:00:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating new virtual lists
In-Reply-To: <a0623092ac40e3b2d00f7@[192.168.33.3]>
Message-ID: <PC176020080327140030065647185e4e@msapiro>

billc wrote:
>
>What's the correct syntax for Virtual_Hosts {} in Defaults.py? I keep 
>getting errors when I try to put something there.


As pointed out by Dragon in another reply, don't change Defaults.py.
Override or supplement settings in mm_cfg.py instead.

To answer your question, VIRTUAL_HOSTS is a dictionary with web host as
keys and mail hos as vallues, but you don't need or want to edit it
directly. You use add_virtualhost() as in

add_virtualhost('www.example.com', 'example.com')

To add entries to VIRTUAL_HOSTS. VIRTUAL_HOSTS is initialized in
Defaults.py with

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

If these values are correct, just add more virtual hosts with
add_virtualhost() in mm_cfg.py.

If these values need to be changed, change them in mm_cfg.py with

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = '...'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = '...'

then clear the old values from VIRTUAL_HOSTS with

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()

and add the new values with

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

followed by add_virtualhost() lines for the other domains.



>I need to set moderation of new accounts (including any which are 
>subscribed and confirmed from here forward) to OFF.  Where is that 
>setting? I see the one to toggle moderation on/off for all current 
>subscribers on the main Membership List page, but that doesn't appear 
>to affect new subscribers.


Answered by Dragon in another reply.


>Despite "Mod" being unchecked, all posts from my test subscribers 
>result in an email to the list admin with:
>
>	As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
>	following mailing list posting:
>
>     List:    xxxxxx at xxxxxr.xxx
>     From:    xxxxx at gmail.com
>     Subject: And another test
>     Reason:  Message has implicit destination
>
>What does that mean?


Answered by Dragon in another reply.	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 27 22:10:29 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:10:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-gateway
In-Reply-To: <20080327191514.GF16117@sitsika>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803271410290609cb8c539e@msapiro>

Par Leijonhufvud wrote:
>
>Nope, that is there and uncommented. Nor does it make a diffeence when
>run manually.  I have localhost allowed as per default in INNs
>readers.conf, and then some special bits to control access to different
>groups for different users. But the fact that it woerks one way is
>confusing me; it should work both ways or none AFAICT (INN newbie
>though).


You might try doing a 'mass_catchup'. If somehow the list's
usenet_watermark is too high, this will reset it.

It sounds like you shouldn't need to set NNTP_USERNAME or NNTP_PASSWORD
in mm_cfg.py, but there may be an issue there. Have you looked in
Mailman's fromusenet log for any clues?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Thu Mar 27 22:28:14 2008
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:28:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Curious about email confirmations for list owners...
Message-ID: <47EC116E.1010500@wingfoot.org>

Hi List...

So I have a list on my box that's about to get a new round of 
listowners/moderators.

I created a list for the new mods/owners to play on, so I can show them 
how the interface works, etc. It's actually been a great learning 
experience for all of us, since I've never relied on email commands, 
I've always used the web commands. Anywho, it's raised a question that I 
can't really answer for them (they're an eager bunch, but they aren't 
techies, just everyday folk--just FYI):

When confirming the posting of a moderated message via email, "Why 
doesn't this work the way it says?" (their words, not mine..)

My observation: When the post comes through for approval, you an email 
with two attachments: First part is the web interface link, second 
(first attachment) the email that's being moderated, and third (second 
attachment) is how to confirm via email.

The problem is--you can't hit "reply" -- this does not work. Even 
though, to the layperson, it says to do so, since clients like 
Thunderbird and such show the text attachments inline. This is more 
pilot-error than anything, but it is confusing for non-techies, admittedly.

But, even more of a curiosity--if you open the attached email that says 
"confirm <confirmationcode>"--and hit reply--*THAT* doesn't work. The 
Subject: and To: headers are not set correctly. I use Thunderbird, some 
of the others use T-bird or Outcrack. From what I am gathering from the 
new mods, this is the same for both. I run a Mac so I don't run Outcrack 
to test with (nor do I really want to run Outcrack *blecch*).

I admit, that this took me three tries to get it right, and that 
involved just creating a new email, doing a copy/paste of the Subject 
line and making sure the email went to (listname)-request at ...

Are I/we doing this wrong? While I wholeheartedly support using the web 
interface for these things, I can understand why someone would just want 
to hit <Reply> type in the Approved: listpassword header, and do things 
that way, as well.

I've searched the FAQ, and the archives, but didn't see anything that 
addressed this. I've told them to just use the web interface, but 
they're genuinely curious as to how this works, and I'd like to help 
them understand (no less understand this myself! :-) )

Again, thank you in advance, and I hope this isn't another stupid 
question like my last one. (I admit I almost didn't send this in 
tonight, but I want to do right by my users, and if that means I have to 
eat some crow, ok fine.)

Best,
--Glenn
(Running Mailman since v2.0beta2 ... and proud of it!)


From MHeer at lbl.gov  Thu Mar 27 22:29:07 2008
From: MHeer at lbl.gov (Mark Heer)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:29:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving to 3rd machine
Message-ID: <f29ebc833f87.47ebaf33@lbl.gov>

Hello,

I'd like to have all archives sent to one system.  Currently we use hypermail for this but as we move to mailman it will be necessary to retain this sort of  architecture.   Can mailman be configured to have mailserver1 and mailserver2 send archives
to adminmachine3 ?  (all 3 running mailman).  One posssibility as noted in the faq is using MHonArc - but could I use similar 
PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER configs to point to adminmachine3 using mailman's pipermail?  

Thank you,

Mark

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 27 23:17:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:17:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Curious about email confirmations for list
	owners...
In-Reply-To: <47EC116E.1010500@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032715171404375e94f023@msapiro>

Glenn Sieb wrote:
>
>When confirming the posting of a moderated message via email, "Why 
>doesn't this work the way it says?" (their words, not mine..)
>
>My observation: When the post comes through for approval, you an email 
>with two attachments: First part is the web interface link, second 
>(first attachment) the email that's being moderated, and third (second 
>attachment) is how to confirm via email.
>
>The problem is--you can't hit "reply" -- this does not work. Even 
>though, to the layperson, it says to do so, since clients like 
>Thunderbird and such show the text attachments inline. This is more 
>pilot-error than anything, but it is confusing for non-techies, admittedly.


Unfortunately, this is MUA dependent. In some MUA's, if you actually
open the attached message, you can reply to it and it will work. In
Tbird 2.0 at least, you can click on the icon for the third part, and
it will open in a new window, and you can reply in that window, and it
works.


>But, even more of a curiosity--if you open the attached email that says 
>"confirm <confirmationcode>"--and hit reply--*THAT* doesn't work. The 
>Subject: and To: headers are not set correctly. I use Thunderbird, some 
>of the others use T-bird or Outcrack. From what I am gathering from the 
>new mods, this is the same for both. I run a Mac so I don't run Outcrack 
>to test with (nor do I really want to run Outcrack *blecch*).


It works for me with Tbird 2.0 (IIRC it didn't work with older Tbird).
It also works with Mutt, and I think I have observed in the past that
it works with MS Outlook express.


>I admit, that this took me three tries to get it right, and that 
>involved just creating a new email, doing a copy/paste of the Subject 
>line and making sure the email went to (listname)-request at ...
>
>Are I/we doing this wrong? While I wholeheartedly support using the web 
>interface for these things, I can understand why someone would just want 
>to hit <Reply> type in the Approved: listpassword header, and do things 
>that way, as well.


As I said above, it's MUA dependent. In any case, if the MUA shows all
the parts inline, replying in that view wont work without editing the
recipient and subject of the reply, but most (I think) MUAs that allow
you to open/view the specific message part and reply to it will work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Thu Mar 27 23:34:22 2008
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:34:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Curious about email confirmations for list
	owners...
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008032715171404375e94f023@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008032715171404375e94f023@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47EC20EE.4080705@wingfoot.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>  Unfortunately, this is MUA dependent. In some MUA's, if you actually
>  open the attached message, you can reply to it and it will work. In
>  Tbird 2.0 at least, you can click on the icon for the third part, and
>  it will open in a new window, and you can reply in that window, and
>  it works.

Thanks, Mark. I'm using Tbird 2.0.0.12 (mac) and it doesn't seem to work 
like that. :-/ One of the other mods is using Tbird for Windows (I know 
she's using 2.0+ (I installed it for her), but not sure what exact 
version she's got.).

I can open it, but when I hit "Reply" (or "Reply to all") the To: is 
blank and the Subject: is either blank or it says "Re: " and that's it.

>  It works for me with Tbird 2.0 (IIRC it didn't work with older
>  Tbird). It also works with Mutt, and I think I have observed in the
>  past that it works with MS Outlook express.

Ok. I'll see if anyone's running Outcrack Express and have them try it. 
Like I said, it's been a learning curve for all of us. I'd never used 
the mail interface for this stuff before. :)

>  As I said above, it's MUA dependent. In any case, if the MUA shows
>  all the parts inline, replying in that view wont work without editing
>  the recipient and subject of the reply, but most (I think) MUAs that
>  allow you to open/view the specific message part and reply to it will
>  work.

*nod* We'll keep at it. Thanks, Mark. :)

Best,
--Glenn



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 27 23:50:11 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:50:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving to 3rd machine
In-Reply-To: <f29ebc833f87.47ebaf33@lbl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032715501105315e94f07e@msapiro>

Mark Heer wrote:
>
>I'd like to have all archives sent to one system.  Currently we use hypermail for this but as we move to mailman it will be necessary to retain this sort of  architecture.   Can mailman be configured to have mailserver1 and mailserver2 send archives
>to adminmachine3 ?  (all 3 running mailman).  One posssibility as noted in the faq is using MHonArc - but could I use similar 
>PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER configs to point to adminmachine3 using mailman's pipermail?  


Just off the top of my head, you could try something on machines 1 and
2 like

PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'ssh -e none mailman at machine3 "script
%(listname)s"'

(all on one line), and similarly for PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER, where
script would be on machine3 and would be something like

#!/bin/sh
f=`mktemp`
cat > $f
bin/arch $1 $f
rm $f

Of course, it wouldn't have to be ssh and could be it's own script, but
just something to push the message to a script on machine 3 which
would copy the message to a file and feed it to bin/arch for the
correct list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From scott at fyrenice.com  Fri Mar 28 00:03:14 2008
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:03:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] not recognized
Message-ID: <20080327230314.GA9872@comcast.net>

Dear List: 

I have the strangest thing happen EVERYTIME I add anyone new, to any list. I
receive two messages. The first is a notice indicating the address was
successfully added to said list, a la: 


From: mailman-bounces at fyrenice.com
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:26:28 -0600
To: sanchiro-patients-owner at fyrenice.com
Subject: sanchiro-patients subscription notification
>From mailman-bounces at fyrenice.com Thu Mar 27 15:26:30 2008

Firstname Lastname <firstandlastnames at msn.com> has been successfully
subscribed to sanchiro-patients.


The second looks like the following: 


From: mailman-bounces at fyrenice.com
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:26:36 -0600
To: sanchiro-patients-owner at fyrenice.com
Subject: Uncaught bounce notification
>From mailman-bounces at fyrenice.com Thu Mar 27 15:26:37 2008

[-- Attachment #1 --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Encoding: 7bit, Size: 0.3K --]

The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send all
unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).

For more information see:
http://fyrenice.com/mailman/admin/sanchiro-patients/bounce


[-- Attachment #2 --]
[-- Type: message/rfc822, Encoding: 7bit, Size: 2.7K --]

From: Mail Delivery System <mail-daemon at comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:25:11 +0000
To: sanchiro-patients-bounces at fyrenice.com
Subject: Delivery status notification

[-- Attachment #1 --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Encoding: 8bit, Size: 0.2K --]

      This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

      Delivery to the following recipients failed permanently:

         * anynamegoeshere-owner at msn.com

I'd like to know how to reconfigure my installation so that I do not keep
generating this error, with the -owner@ on every newly added address. 

Scott

-- 
"If you can't afford Prevention now, how will you afford disease later?"

			
				

Sandy Chiropractic Office	Dr. Scott S. Jones

V: 801.566.5428			MAILING ADDRESS
F: 801.858.9300			PO Box 1154
E: scott at fyrenice.com		Sandy, Utah 84091-1154

From pilsl at goldfisch.at  Fri Mar 28 00:09:23 2008
From: pilsl at goldfisch.at (peter pilsl)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:09:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change url on moved lists
Message-ID: <47EC2923.3030809@goldfisch.at>


I just moved a whole sendmail-installation from one server to another. 
Therefore also the url of the server for the mailman-web-interface 
changed from server1.com to server2.com.

This is no problem for the listoverview and so

server2.com/mailman/admin

works fine. But then every list listed still points to server1.com and 
even worse to  server1.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listname

How can I change this url and path ??

I changed default-settings in mm_cfg.py like DEFAULT_URL_HOST, but this 
only applies to new lists.

But I cant find the settings in the list-configs itself.  host_name 
doesnt seem to be the variable I'm looking for.

Where does mailman get the urls that links to the lists in 
/mailman/listinfo ??

thnx,
peter





From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 28 00:37:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:37:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] not recognized
In-Reply-To: <20080327230314.GA9872@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803271637520250794a254e@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
>
>I'd like to know how to reconfigure my installation so that I do not keep
>generating this error, with the -owner@ on every newly added address. 


Is your list's umbrella_list (on General Options) setting set to Yes?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 28 00:46:20 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:46:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change url on moved lists
In-Reply-To: <47EC2923.3030809@goldfisch.at>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803271646200312ff61f68c@msapiro>

peter pilsl wrote:
>
>But I cant find the settings in the list-configs itself.  host_name 
>doesnt seem to be the variable I'm looking for.
>
>Where does mailman get the urls that links to the lists in 
>/mailman/listinfo ??


>From the web_page_url attribute which is not visible in the GUI.

You need to run fix_url. The canonical FAQ on this is
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>,
but there are others. See the 'Existing versus new lists' section in
FAQ 4.29 or some of the other hits from
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=web_page_url+fix_url&querytype=allkeywords&casefold=yes&req=search>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 28 01:11:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:11:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Curious about email confirmations for list
	owners...
In-Reply-To: <47EC20EE.4080705@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032717115104215e94f038@msapiro>

Glenn Sieb 
>
>Thanks, Mark. I'm using Tbird 2.0.0.12 (mac) and it doesn't seem to work 
>like that.


I just tried it on Mac OS X 10.5 with Tbird 2.0.0.9 and then after
upgrade, with 2.0.0.12 (with enigmail), and it worked fine in both.

It also works for me with Tbird 2.0.0.12 (with enigmail) on Windows XP.

I also tried MS-Outlook Express 6 on Windows, but when I try to open
the attached confirmation message part, it opens with the default
application for .eml files which on my machine is Tbird, so it doesn't
really work because Tbird is opening the message part from a file (see
below).


>I can open it, but when I hit "Reply" (or "Reply to all") the To: is 
>blank and the Subject: is either blank or it says "Re: " and that's it.


Is the message body in the composition window also blank? If so, it
sounds like the following:

One problem I know for sure with Tbird, is the message has to be in a
mailbox. If a message with attachments is in a stand-alone file (.eml
file or ??), you can open that with Tbird, but then Tbird doesn't
handle the attachments properly.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Fri Mar 28 01:36:53 2008
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:36:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Curious about email confirmations for list
	owners...
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008032717115104215e94f038@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008032717115104215e94f038@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47EC3DA5.6030207@wingfoot.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I just tried it on Mac OS X 10.5 with Tbird 2.0.0.9 and then after 
> upgrade, with 2.0.0.12 (with enigmail), and it worked fine in both.
> It also works for me with Tbird 2.0.0.12 (with enigmail) on Windows XP.
>
> I also tried MS-Outlook Express 6 on Windows, but when I try to open
> the attached confirmation message part, it opens with the default
> application for .eml files which on my machine is Tbird, so it doesn't
> really work because Tbird is opening the message part from a file (see
> below).
>   

Hmm. When I open the attachment, it opens in a new Tbird window, and if 
I click "Message, Edit as New" Tbird goes all funky on me. *sigh*
> Is the message body in the composition window also blank? If so, it 
> sounds like the following:
No it's not blank. But it doesn't open in the composition window, 
either. :-/

I've told the mods to just use the web interface--but it might be worth 
considering at some future point to combine the main email from the 
server with the confirm message (have the confirm message be the subject 
and from... and include the "click here to do this from the web..." 
message into it)?

Anywho--thanks, Mark. :)

Best,
--Glenn

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 28 02:09:45 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:09:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Curious about email confirmations for list
	owners...
In-Reply-To: <47EC3DA5.6030207@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032718094504065e94f023@msapiro>

Glenn Sieb wrote:
>
>Hmm. When I open the attachment, it opens in a new Tbird window, and if 
>I click "Message, Edit as New" Tbird goes all funky on me. *sigh*


When I open the attachment, it opens in a new window and if I then
select message->edit as new, I get a blank composition window, but if
I open the attachment and then just click 'reply' in that window (or
select message->reply) I get a composition window with To: the
list-request address and Subject: Re: confirm ..... and the expected
quoted text in the message body.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Mar 28 02:54:42 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:54:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-gateway
In-Reply-To: <20080327191514.GF16117@sitsika>
References: <20080327160142.GE16117@sitsika>
	<PC17602008032709371700935e94eece@msapiro>
	<20080327191514.GF16117@sitsika>
Message-ID: <p06240800c411ffe7ebc5@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/27/08, Par Leijonhufvud wrote:

>  Nope, that is there and uncommented. Nor does it make a diffeence when
>  run manually.  I have localhost allowed as per default in INNs
>  readers.conf, and then some special bits to control access to different
>  groups for different users. But the fact that it woerks one way is
>  confusing me; it should work both ways or none AF?ICT (INN newbie
>  though).

Mailman connects to the news server as a regular 
user, not as another server.  In other words, it 
should log in with the userid and password of a 
specific user.  Some news servers direct 
server-to-user traffic through certain protocols 
on certain servers, and server-to-server traffic 
through different protocols to other servers. 
Make sure you're using the right protocol with 
the right userid and password, to the right 
server.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Fri Mar 28 04:34:51 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:34:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating new virtual lists
In-Reply-To: <200803272003.m2RK35eD028822@newbox.eroded.org>
References: <a0623092ac40e3b2d00f7@[192.168.33.3]>
	<47EBF18A.2090802@Media-Brokers.com>
	<a0623097cc411a967d792@[192.168.33.3]>
	<200803272003.m2RK35eD028822@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <a06230984c412104ff651@[192.168.33.3]>

At 12:57 PM -0700 3/27/08, Dragon wrote:
>

>OK, you should NEVER edit Defaults.py
>
>You put any overrides of any default values in mm_cfg.py
>
>The reason for this is that Defaults.py gets overwritten on an
>upgrade of the mailman code while mm_cfg.py does not.

Got it.  I'm familiar with this type of organization from other 
software packages we run.

>That is default_member_moderation setting on the Privacy Options ->
>Sender Filters page.

Great.

>
>You will also want to look at the settings for
>member_moderation_action and member_moderation_notice while you are
there to set them as appropriate.

Thanks

At 1:04 PM -0700 3/27/08, Dragon wrote:
>billc sent the message below at 12:48 3/27/2008:
>  >At 3:12 PM -0400 3/27/08, Charles Marcus wrote:
>
>  >No, the mail is delivered to a Gmail account and pulled down from
>>there using Fetchmail and dropped into Mailman.  No CCs or BCCs.
>>
>>I *did* have to do some extra backflips with Gmail, as I currently
>>have to wait 5 days before I can recreate the correct account name  -
>>I have discusion@ set up as an email list which forwards to
>>discussion2@ until Gmail lets me out of the penalty box for having
>>just deleted an account named discussion at .   Perhaps that's where the
>>problem lies.
>>
>>Hopefully I'll be able to get that one to go away in 5 days.
>>
>---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
>Umm... why on earth are you doing that? It sounds convoluted and
>unnecessary to me (in fact, I think it is downright weird).

Yes, i admit it is definitely convoluted and wierd.  (feel free to 
skip this section if the glaze factor sets in)

The problem stems from the fact that I'm setting this up to take over 
the function of an existing list (the previous host went out of 
business, rather quickly).  Since I didn't have Mailman set up and 
running I created a temporary list on my antiquated listserv 
software.  All mail for this domain is run through Gmail, as is mail 
for most of our other domains as we were getting absolutely pounded 
by the spambots (we caught a lot of spam, but there were so many 
bogus attempts to send mail that our servers were unable to say "go 
away" fast enough, and just the connections/rejections traffic was 
clogging our bandwidth up.  Gmail has the computational firepower to 
deal with that - we don't).  This is also the reason I'm using 
Fetchmail rather than forwarding or otherwise redirecting list mail 
to the Postfix server on the Mailman machine - shortly after I turned 
Postfix on to receive SMTP from non-localhost sources, I started 
seeing the spambots knocking on the door again.

So I created an account that forwarded list mail to the temp listserv.

After installing and testing Mailman it was time to test it with the 
real domain name and real emails.  I deleted the account and 
recreated it as a Gmail "list" (basically a forwarding - only 
account) which unlike their standard accounts has the ability to 
forward to more than one address (the temp list and the test list).

Now that the bugs are pretty much worked out with the virtual 
hosting, I went back to recreate the list account.  But Gmail 
requires a "waiting period" of 5 days before you can recreate an 
account that you've deleted.   So now I've got a temporarily messy 
and convoluted path that list mail will go through to get to Mailman:

  Gmail "list" =>  temp listserv => list members (to be discontinued soon)
	   => Gmail temp account => Fetchmail => Mailman =>list 
members (to be switched on soon)

When Gmail lets me, it'll look like this instead:

Gmail account (the list address) => Fetchmail => Mailman =>list members

>
>The list address must appear in the To: or CC: header of the e-mail
>delivered to mailman or an acceptable list alias can be present. The
>only other option is to have require_explicit_destination set to NO
>(which is not recommended).
>
>Probably the best way to deal with this in your case with this weird
>configuration is to have the gmail address you are sending to added
>to acceptable_aliases on the Privacy Options -> Recipient filters page.

Got it.  Thanks.  I've put in some acceptable aliases, and I suspect 
that'll do the trick.

And as an aside: you've got a convert on your hands.  Although I'm 
not fond of the need for multiple addresses for 
subscribe/unsubscribe/etc, there are lots of other things I DO like 
about Mailman, and I'm pretty sure that I'll be creating all my 
future lists using it - and probably moving my existing lists off the 
antiquated software as well.
-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From dmehler26 at woh.rr.com  Fri Mar 28 14:48:21 2008
From: dmehler26 at woh.rr.com (Dave)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 09:48:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailman on fc6
Message-ID: <003601c890da$63442620$0200a8c0@satellite>

Hello,
    I'm trying to set up mailman and postfix on an fc6 vps box. The fqdns 
they use are not mine for this domain, which i'm wondering if that's an 
issue. I have edited mm_cfg.py url_hosts set it to www.domain.com and 
email_hosts option to domain.com, i won't be using any virtual domains, at 
least not right away. I've deleted the five lines for automatic fqdn 
acquiring above the url_host line and went to run /usr/lib/mailman/update i 
get a traceback www is not defined. Where do i go from here?
Thanks.
Dave.


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 28 18:15:12 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:15:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailman on fc6
In-Reply-To: <003601c890da$63442620$0200a8c0@satellite>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803281015120234906bc6f6@msapiro>

Dave wrote:

>    I'm trying to set up mailman and postfix on an fc6 vps box. The fqdns 
>they use are not mine for this domain, which i'm wondering if that's an 
>issue. I have edited mm_cfg.py url_hosts set it to www.domain.com and 
>email_hosts option to domain.com, i won't be using any virtual domains, at 
>least not right away. I've deleted the five lines for automatic fqdn 
>acquiring above the url_host line and went to run /usr/lib/mailman/update i 
>get a traceback www is not defined. Where do i go from here?


We may need more specific information such as the traceback itself,
although I suspect it is caused by missing quotes around
www.domain.com.

Also, I wonder what /usr/lib/mailman/update is or if you meant
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update, why you are running it by hand or does
this have something to do with it being an rpm install? Even so,
bin/update is only run to upgrade an existing installation. It would
not normall be run in a new install.

That said, here's what you want in mm_cfg.py

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.domain.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'domain.com'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

If you put that at the end of mm_cfg.py, it will override anything that
was done previously with those things.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dmehler26 at woh.rr.com  Fri Mar 28 18:29:30 2008
From: dmehler26 at woh.rr.com (Dave)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:29:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailman on fc6
References: <PC1760200803281015120234906bc6f6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000301c890f9$47d90300$0200a8c0@satellite>

Hi,
    Thanks, quoting those domains did it.
I'll write if i have more issues, but that was the hurdle.
Thanks.
Dave.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net>
To: "Dave" <dmehler26 at woh.rr.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailman on fc6


> Dave wrote:
>
>>    I'm trying to set up mailman and postfix on an fc6 vps box. The fqdns
>>they use are not mine for this domain, which i'm wondering if that's an
>>issue. I have edited mm_cfg.py url_hosts set it to www.domain.com and
>>email_hosts option to domain.com, i won't be using any virtual domains, at
>>least not right away. I've deleted the five lines for automatic fqdn
>>acquiring above the url_host line and went to run /usr/lib/mailman/update 
>>i
>>get a traceback www is not defined. Where do i go from here?
>
>
> We may need more specific information such as the traceback itself,
> although I suspect it is caused by missing quotes around
> www.domain.com.
>
> Also, I wonder what /usr/lib/mailman/update is or if you meant
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/update, why you are running it by hand or does
> this have something to do with it being an rpm install? Even so,
> bin/update is only run to upgrade an existing installation. It would
> not normall be run in a new install.
>
> That said, here's what you want in mm_cfg.py
>
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.domain.com'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'domain.com'
> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
> If you put that at the end of mm_cfg.py, it will override anything that
> was done previously with those things.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan 


From inductionservices at sbcglobal.net  Fri Mar 28 20:06:42 2008
From: inductionservices at sbcglobal.net (Induction Services)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 14:06:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PCLinuxOS Newbie
Message-ID: <47ED41C2.3080107@sbcglobal.net>

Hello everyone, I've searched the archives for a solution but came up 
against a wall.

PCLinuxOS has Mailman listed in its repository, but on installation it 
gives the error about en-US.  The archives here suggest that the 
solution is to config and make from scratch, as apparently wherever the 
binaries came from there is an issue with an errant entry in one of the 
files.

OK, so I went to the manual, and hit a wall trying to create the user.  
The instructions give exact characters to type in to useradd.  
Unfortunately, on opening a console, switching to su, and entering the 
command, I get, "cannot create directory /no/home".  I tried reading the 
man pages on useradd, and could find no explanation on why that is.

Sorry to be so clueless.  Thanks in advance for any help you can give 
me.  I very badly want to get away from running my little list off a 
Windows box.  I'm willing to put up with considerable pain to do it.  
(And I'd prefer not to go distro-hopping again if I can avoid it, unless 
there is a really good reason why I shouldn't use PCLinuxOS.)

Thanks,

--John--

From francesco at fampeeters.com  Fri Mar 28 19:25:30 2008
From: francesco at fampeeters.com (Francesco Peeters)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:25:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PCLinuxOS Newbie
In-Reply-To: <47ED41C2.3080107@sbcglobal.net>
References: <47ED41C2.3080107@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <47ED381A.60901@fampeeters.com>

Induction Services wrote:
> Hello everyone, I've searched the archives for a solution but came up 
> against a wall.
>
> PCLinuxOS has Mailman listed in its repository, but on installation it 
> gives the error about en-US.  The archives here suggest that the 
> solution is to config and make from scratch, as apparently wherever the 
> binaries came from there is an issue with an errant entry in one of the 
> files.
>
> OK, so I went to the manual, and hit a wall trying to create the user.  
> The instructions give exact characters to type in to useradd.  
> Unfortunately, on opening a console, switching to su, and entering the 
> command, I get, "cannot create directory /no/home".  I tried reading the 
> man pages on useradd, and could find no explanation on why that is.
>
> Sorry to be so clueless.  Thanks in advance for any help you can give 
> me.  I very badly want to get away from running my little list off a 
> Windows box.  I'm willing to put up with considerable pain to do it.  
> (And I'd prefer not to go distro-hopping again if I can avoid it, unless 
> there is a really good reason why I shouldn't use PCLinuxOS.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> --John--
>   

An error like that would be a good reason for me... But anyway, it'd
help if you listed the URL of the instructions you are using, or at
least the command you were typing...
-- 
Francesco Peeters
Laptop: IBM T43 with Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon, Workstation
Server: P4i65G, 2.4GHz with Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon, Server Edition
   Postfix, Dovecot, Mailman, Apache2, Squirrelmail

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 28 19:36:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:36:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PCLinuxOS Newbie
In-Reply-To: <47ED41C2.3080107@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803281136010609d3339322@msapiro>

Induction Services wrote:
>
>PCLinuxOS has Mailman listed in its repository, but on installation it 
>gives the error about en-US.  The archives here suggest that the 
>solution is to config and make from scratch, as apparently wherever the 
>binaries came from there is an issue with an errant entry in one of the 
>files.


If I recall, some broken distros include(d)

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en-US'

in Defaults.py

All you need to do to fix this is put

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'

in mm_cfg.py.


>OK, so I went to the manual, and hit a wall trying to create the user.  
>The instructions give exact characters to type in to useradd.  


Actually, it doesn't. At least if you are reading
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node4.html>, it says

  useradd -c''GNU Mailman'' -s /no/shell -d /no/home -g mailman mailman

and the '' are intended to mean " so the "exact" command should be

  useradd -c"GNU Mailman" -s /no/shell -d /no/home -g mailman mailman

But this assumes that useradd won't validate the entries for shell (-s)
and home directory (-d). Personally, I would use


"-s /sbin/nologin" and "-d /usr/local/mailman" as the shell and home
directory, assuming you are going to install in the default
/usr/local/mailman directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Sat Mar 29 07:45:45 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 01:45:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] details to finish up
Message-ID: <a0623099bc41396014c4d@[192.168.33.3]>

I've got just one hopefully minor thing to finish up:

Public archives aren't visible. I'm getting a permssions error.  I 
currently have:

drwxrwx--x  9 billc  mailman  306 27 Mar 15:26 private

       drwxrwxr-x  9 root   mailman  306 27 Mar 03:27 discussion
       drwxrwxr-x  3 root   mailman  102 27 Mar 02:08 discussion.mbox
       drwxrwsr-x  3 root   mailman  102 23 Mar 12:07 mailman
       drwxrwsr-x  2 root   mailman   68 23 Mar 12:07 mailman.mbox
       drwxrwsr-x  9 billc  mailman  306 24 Mar 03:27 testlist
       drwxrwsr-x  3 billc  mailman  102 24 Mar 01:51 testlist.mbox

drwxrwsr-x  5 billc  mailman  170 27 Mar 15:26 public

       lrwxr-xr-x  1 billc  mailman  46 27 Mar 15:13 discussion -> 
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/discussion
       lrwxr-xr-x  1 billc  mailman  44 23 Mar 12:59 testlist -> 
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/testlist

I"m also getting:

Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
          This could allow other users on your system to read private archives.
          If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
          installation manual on how to fix this.

when running check_perms.

What *should* they be?

All else is working great.

Thanks.
-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 29 15:58:37 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:58:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] details to finish up
In-Reply-To: <a0623099bc41396014c4d@[192.168.33.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803290758370000498c0245@msapiro>

billc wrote:
>
>Public archives aren't visible. I'm getting a permssions error.


What's the message in your web server's error_log?


>I 
>currently have:
>
>drwxrwx--x  9 billc  mailman  306 27 Mar 15:26 private
>
>       drwxrwxr-x  9 root   mailman  306 27 Mar 03:27 discussion
>       drwxrwxr-x  3 root   mailman  102 27 Mar 02:08 discussion.mbox
>       drwxrwsr-x  3 root   mailman  102 23 Mar 12:07 mailman
>       drwxrwsr-x  2 root   mailman   68 23 Mar 12:07 mailman.mbox
>       drwxrwsr-x  9 billc  mailman  306 24 Mar 03:27 testlist
>       drwxrwsr-x  3 billc  mailman  102 24 Mar 01:51 testlist.mbox
>
>drwxrwsr-x  5 billc  mailman  170 27 Mar 15:26 public
>
>       lrwxr-xr-x  1 billc  mailman  46 27 Mar 15:13 discussion -> 
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/discussion
>       lrwxr-xr-x  1 billc  mailman  44 23 Mar 12:59 testlist -> 
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/testlist
>
>I"m also getting:
>
>Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
>          This could allow other users on your system to read private archives.
>          If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
>          installation manual on how to fix this.
>
>when running check_perms.
>
>What *should* they be?


The permissions above look mostly correct, but is every directory in
/path/to/archives/ also at least o+x (normally, o+rx).

Also, archives/private is normally g+s as are it's subordinates. It
looks like this changed sometime between the creation of testlist and
the creation of discussion. If archives/private isn't SETGID (g+s), it
is possible that, for example, root could run bin/arch and create
directories and files that aren't group mailman, and these would then
not be writable by mailman.

The warning from check_perms is just a message that you might consider
changing that if you are concerned about non-privileged users with
shell or possibly ftp access to your server being able to see your
private archives, but if you remove the o+x, you also need to make
your web server the owner of the archives/private directory.

See the Warning box at <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Mike.Rosile at interzonegames.com  Sat Mar 29 23:50:46 2008
From: Mike.Rosile at interzonegames.com (Mike Rosile)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:50:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <mailman.14.1206788407.22098.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.14.1206788407.22098.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <6EEA966D6E385A48B975DB0D88D7923D28B64ED20C@exchange01.in.iz>

unsubscribe

From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Sun Mar 30 07:14:27 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 00:14:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] details to finish up
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803290758370000498c0245@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200803290758370000498c0245@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a062309a2c414d0ef1c8c@[192.168.33.3]>

At 7:58 AM -0700 3/29/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>billc wrote:
>>
>>Public archives aren't visible. I'm getting a permssions error.
>
>What's the message in your web server's error_log?
>

Got it fixed.

There's a cgi that I apply to all .html files, and specifies that 
they must be in in my web files directory. 
/usr/local/mailman/archives lies outside that directory, therefore 
they were not allowed.  I just needed to add the archives directory 
to those allowed and it started working fine.

Of course, I figured that after doing all the other changes you 
suggested - which probably needed to be done anyway.

Thanks again for the help.
-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From alster at indymedia.org  Sun Mar 30 20:39:04 2008
From: alster at indymedia.org (Alster)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:39:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encrypted mailing lists
Message-ID: <47EFDE48.8010504@indymedia.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi,

I have been repeatedly tempted to sum up options of setting up encrypted
mailing lists, with or without using GNU Mailman.

I had previously summed up what I found at
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/listwork/2006-February/0203-uh.html

This is about two years ago, and a couple things have changed since, so
here's a little update, and a few additions.

Of the options listed on my previous summary, the following appear to be
no longer mantained:

B. NAH6 Secure List (Mailman bug #646989)
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=646989&group_id=103&atid=300103
The NAH6 company appears to be no longer existing and the patch semms to
be no longer mantained.

C. Ben Laurie's 'PGP Support for Mailman' (Mailman bug #645297)
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=645297&group_id=103&atid=300103

D. RedIRIS Encrypted mail list aliases with GnuPG
The informational page has since moved to
http://www.rediris.es/pgp/app/pgplist/ but this script appears to be no
longer maintained.

As such, only these options listed in my previous summary remain:

* mailman-ssls, a Mailman-Patch which has recently been updated for
  Mailman 2.1.9 compatibility:
  http://non-gnu.uvt.nl/mailman-ssls/

* firma, a standalone encrypted mailinglist server (written in bash):
  http://codecoop.org/projects/firma/


Additionally, there are these options which had not been part of the
last overview:

* MMReencrypt, another Mailman patch
https://sourceforge.net/projects/mmreencrypt/
no longer maintained

* Schleuder, a standalone 'crypto mailinglist'
http://codecoop.org/projects/schleuder/
still maintained (according to their versioning system), but last
release dates back to 2006

Apart from these, there surely must be other options, some standalone,
some extending specific MTA's functionality, both of which I didn't
examine. I believe there is at least one such solution for courier, and
at least one for qmail. There may also be some for postfix.

Not being aware of other scripts, I would appreciate your notice on
openly licensed implementations and extensions providing the
functionality of encrypted mailing lists.

Alster
- --
GPG key
http://keys2.indymedia.org/cgi-bin/lookup?op=get&search=05059C17
Fingerprint    1B8B 128F 8435 541C B3A5 1B7E CF5A 9D55 0505 9C17
All other      https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Main/AlsteR
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFH795Iz1qdVQUFnBcRCsE8AJwI7VZIdUzwJmbXpkr/LVB1Fk9KPQCgsihw
rlxgMhAg7RgenX5/K6elpkA=
=uNwb
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From jon.slater at mesanetworks.net  Sun Mar 30 21:15:33 2008
From: jon.slater at mesanetworks.net (Jon Slater)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:15:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where's my mail going?
Message-ID: <007b01c8929a$6d8daf40$48a90dc0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>

Hi,

 

I just set up a new Mailman server (Fedora Core 8) and followed the
instructions I found in the FAQs to move my lists.

 

It seemed pretty straight forward, but I have a hitch.

 

If I send e-mail from a member's e-mail address, to the membership list, I
get a record in my "/var/log/mailman/post" file that reads:
Mar 30 12:08:10 2008 (3770) post to board from jon.slater at mesanetworks.net,
size=4564,
message-id=<005e01c89291$0f1e0d00$2d5a2700$@slater at mesanetworks.net>,
success

 

So that part looks encouraging, but I never receive the e-mail to the list
members.

 

I see the e-mail posted in the list archive, but no list member receives it.

 

I *do* see a record in /var/log/mailman/smtp that reads:
Mar 30 13:08:17 2008 (3770)
<007601c89299$7582d820$60888860$@slater at mesanetworks.net> smtp to board for
1 recips, completed in 0.129 seconds

 

So, it looks like it was sent out.  But I never received it.

 

The way my lists are configured, I auto-reject any mail not posted by a list
member.  So, I tried posting from a non-member e-mail address, and I got the
nasty "you're not allowed" e-mail.

 

So my server is able to send e-mail, and apparently recognizes the 'good'
e-mail address as a member.  It's also recognizes the 'bad' e-mail address
and sends the "you're not allowed".

 

How can I figure out where my e-mail is going?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Jon


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 30 22:15:19 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:15:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where's my mail going?
In-Reply-To: <007b01c8929a$6d8daf40$48a90dc0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602008033013151907035728d272@msapiro>

Jon Slater wrote:
>
>If I send e-mail from a member's e-mail address, to the membership list, I
>get a record in my "/var/log/mailman/post" file that reads:
>Mar 30 12:08:10 2008 (3770) post to board from jon.slater at mesanetworks.net,
>size=4564,
>message-id=<005e01c89291$0f1e0d00$2d5a2700$@slater at mesanetworks.net>,
>success
>
> 
>
>So that part looks encouraging, but I never receive the e-mail to the list
>members.
>
> 
>
>I see the e-mail posted in the list archive, but no list member receives it.
>
> 
>
>I *do* see a record in /var/log/mailman/smtp that reads:
>Mar 30 13:08:17 2008 (3770)
><007601c89299$7582d820$60888860$@slater at mesanetworks.net> smtp to board for
>1 recips, completed in 0.129 seconds


This message has a different message-id and timestamp from the post log
message. Is that significant, or are you just copying 'typical'
entries?

In any case, this message was delivered to the MTA and had 1 recipient.
Is that the expected number? The message in the post log was also
delivered to the MTA, but the number of recipients would be in the
corresponding smtp log entry.

Check the smtp-failure and bounce logs for possible issues? Also check
the MTA's log for entries related to these messages


>How can I figure out where my e-mail is going?


The MTA's log should help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jon.slater at mesanetworks.net  Sun Mar 30 22:32:54 2008
From: jon.slater at mesanetworks.net (Jon Slater)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:32:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where's my mail going?
In-Reply-To: <47EFF2C7.1000900@pcraft.com>
References: <007b01c8929a$6d8daf40$48a90dc0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
	<47EFF2C7.1000900@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <008001c892a5$3bf1ca60$b3d55f20$@slater@mesanetworks.net>

I yum installed it and started the mailman service.  I see the qrunner,
running when I "ps -aef | grep mailman"

-----Original Message-----
From: Ashley M. Kirchner [mailto:ashley at pcraft.com] 
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 2:07 PM
To: Jon Slater
Cc: Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Where's my mail going?

Jon Slater wrote:
> I just set up a new Mailman server (Fedora Core 8) and followed the
> instructions I found in the FAQs to move my lists.
>   
    Did you set up, and start the cron task?

-- 
H | It's not a bug - it's an undocumented feature.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / Websmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Imaging                       .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. 




-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 - Release Date: 3/29/2008
5:02 PM



From jon.slater at mesanetworks.net  Sun Mar 30 22:39:37 2008
From: jon.slater at mesanetworks.net (Jon Slater)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:39:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where's my mail going?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008033013151907035728d272@msapiro>
References: <007b01c8929a$6d8daf40$48a90dc0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
	<PC17602008033013151907035728d272@msapiro>
Message-ID: <008601c892a6$2b865730$82930590$@slater@mesanetworks.net>

You are correct... I just pulled a single record from each file from
multiple tests.  (I also blocked every out-going e-mail address in the list,
except my own.  So 1 recipient is correct.)


Here are all of the matching records from a new test:

Post:
Mar 30 14:35:06 2008 (3770) post to board from jon.slater at mesanetworks.net,
size=4492,
message-id=<008101c892a5$967ddff0$c3799fd0$@slater at mesanetworks.net>,
success

Bounce:
Mar 30 14:35:10 2008 (3766) <BounceRunner at 3083117612> processing 1 queued
bounces
Mar 30 14:35:10 2008 (3766) board: jon.slater at mesanetworks.net already
scored a bounce for date 30-Mar-2008

Smtp:
Mar 30 14:35:06 2008 (3770)
<008101c892a5$967ddff0$c3799fd0$@slater at mesanetworks.net> smtp to board for
1 recips, completed in 0.108 seconds

Maillog:
Mar 30 14:34:43 drewjon sendmail[5304]: NOQUEUE: tcpwrappers (unknown,
41.200.89.222) rejection
Mar 30 14:35:05 drewjon sendmail[5308]: m2UKZ46S005308:
from=<jon.slater at mesanetworks.net>, size=3098, class=0, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<008101c892a5$967ddff0$c3799fd0$@slater at mesanetworks.net>,
proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=mx11.mesanetworks.net [74.52.162.130]
Mar 30 14:35:05 drewjon sendmail[5309]: m2UKZ46S005308:
to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post board",
ctladdr=<board at steeplechase-hoa.org> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
mailer=prog, pri=33304, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Mar 30 14:35:06 drewjon sendmail[5311]: m2UKZ6Fg005311:
from=<board-bounces at steeplechase-hoa.org>, size=4492, class=0, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<008101c892a5$967ddff0$c3799fd0$@slater at mesanetworks.net>,
proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]
Mar 30 14:35:08 drewjon sendmail[5313]: STARTTLS=client,
relay=inbound.filter.theplanet.com., version=TLSv1/SSLv3, verify=FAIL,
cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA, bits=256/256
Mar 30 14:35:09 drewjon sendmail[5313]: m2UKZ6Fg005311:
to=<jon.slater at mesanetworks.net>, delay=00:00:03, xdelay=00:00:03,
mailer=esmtp, pri=124492, relay=inbound.filter.theplanet.com.
[216.185.111.115], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown
Mar 30 14:35:09 drewjon sendmail[5313]: m2UKZ6Fg005311: m2UKZ9Fg005313: DSN:
User unknown
Mar 30 14:35:09 drewjon sendmail[5313]: m2UKZ9Fg005313:
to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces board",
ctladdr=<board-bounces at steeplechase-hoa.org> (8/0), delay=00:00:00,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35697, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Mar 30 14:35:27 drewjon sendmail[5316]: NOQUEUE: tcpwrappers (unknown,
89.19.92.181) rejection
Mar 30 14:35:49 drewjon dovecot: pop3-login: Login: user=<drew>,
method=PLAIN, rip=::ffff:192.168.1.1, lip=::ffff:192.168.1.2
Mar 30 14:35:49 drewjon dovecot: POP3(drew): Disconnected: Logged out
top=0/0, retr=0/0, del=0/0, size=0

Thanks again!

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 2:15 PM
To: Jon Slater; Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Where's my mail going?

Jon Slater wrote:
>
>If I send e-mail from a member's e-mail address, to the membership list, I
>get a record in my "/var/log/mailman/post" file that reads:
>Mar 30 12:08:10 2008 (3770) post to board from jon.slater at mesanetworks.net,
>size=4564,
>message-id=<005e01c89291$0f1e0d00$2d5a2700$@slater at mesanetworks.net>,
>success
>
> 
>
>So that part looks encouraging, but I never receive the e-mail to the list
>members.
>
> 
>
>I see the e-mail posted in the list archive, but no list member receives
it.
>
> 
>
>I *do* see a record in /var/log/mailman/smtp that reads:
>Mar 30 13:08:17 2008 (3770)
><007601c89299$7582d820$60888860$@slater at mesanetworks.net> smtp to board for
>1 recips, completed in 0.129 seconds


This message has a different message-id and timestamp from the post log
message. Is that significant, or are you just copying 'typical'
entries?

In any case, this message was delivered to the MTA and had 1 recipient.
Is that the expected number? The message in the post log was also
delivered to the MTA, but the number of recipients would be in the
corresponding smtp log entry.

Check the smtp-failure and bounce logs for possible issues? Also check
the MTA's log for entries related to these messages


>How can I figure out where my e-mail is going?


The MTA's log should help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 - Release Date: 3/29/2008
5:02 PM



From ashley at pcraft.com  Sun Mar 30 22:06:31 2008
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:06:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where's my mail going?
In-Reply-To: <007b01c8929a$6d8daf40$48a90dc0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
References: <007b01c8929a$6d8daf40$48a90dc0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
Message-ID: <47EFF2C7.1000900@pcraft.com>

Jon Slater wrote:
> I just set up a new Mailman server (Fedora Core 8) and followed the
> instructions I found in the FAQs to move my lists.
>   
    Did you set up, and start the cron task?

-- 
H | It's not a bug - it's an undocumented feature.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / Websmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Imaging                       .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. 


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 30 23:46:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:46:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where's my mail going?
In-Reply-To: <008601c892a6$2b865730$82930590$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602008033014460109681ee8a149@msapiro>

Jon Slater wrote:
>
>Bounce:
>Mar 30 14:35:10 2008 (3766) <BounceRunner at 3083117612> processing 1 queued
>bounces
>Mar 30 14:35:10 2008 (3766) board: jon.slater at mesanetworks.net already
>scored a bounce for date 30-Mar-2008


The mail to you is bouncing.


>Maillog:
>Mar 30 14:35:05 drewjon sendmail[5308]: m2UKZ46S005308:
>from=<jon.slater at mesanetworks.net>, size=3098, class=0, nrcpts=1,
>msgid=<008101c892a5$967ddff0$c3799fd0$@slater at mesanetworks.net>,
>proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=mx11.mesanetworks.net [74.52.162.130]
>Mar 30 14:35:05 drewjon sendmail[5309]: m2UKZ46S005308:
>to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post board",
>ctladdr=<board at steeplechase-hoa.org> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
>mailer=prog, pri=33304, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


Post is received and delivered to Mailman.


>Mar 30 14:35:06 drewjon sendmail[5311]: m2UKZ6Fg005311:
>from=<board-bounces at steeplechase-hoa.org>, size=4492, class=0, nrcpts=1,
>msgid=<008101c892a5$967ddff0$c3799fd0$@slater at mesanetworks.net>,
>proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]


Outging post is received from Mailman.


>Mar 30 14:35:08 drewjon sendmail[5313]: STARTTLS=client,
>relay=inbound.filter.theplanet.com., version=TLSv1/SSLv3, verify=FAIL,
>cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA, bits=256/256
>Mar 30 14:35:09 drewjon sendmail[5313]: m2UKZ6Fg005311:
>to=<jon.slater at mesanetworks.net>, delay=00:00:03, xdelay=00:00:03,
>mailer=esmtp, pri=124492, relay=inbound.filter.theplanet.com.
>[216.185.111.115], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown



And can't be delivered to <jon.slater at mesanetworks.net> because
stat=User unknown


>Mar 30 14:35:09 drewjon sendmail[5313]: m2UKZ6Fg005311: m2UKZ9Fg005313: DSN:
>User unknown
>Mar 30 14:35:09 drewjon sendmail[5313]: m2UKZ9Fg005313:
>to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces board",
>ctladdr=<board-bounces at steeplechase-hoa.org> (8/0), delay=00:00:00,
>xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35697, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


DSN is returned to Mailman ultimately resulting in bounce log entry
above.

sendmail on this box doesn't know how to deliver to
<jon.slater at mesanetworks.net>. This is a sendmail configuration issue
of some kind.

dig tells me that the MX for mesanetworks.net is
inbound.filter.theplanet.com, but apparently this box (drewjon) thinks
that mesanetworks.net is a local domain and so attempts to deliver
locally instead of via the MX.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jon.slater at mesanetworks.net  Mon Mar 31 00:34:09 2008
From: jon.slater at mesanetworks.net (Jon Slater)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:34:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where's my mail going?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008033014460109681ee8a149@msapiro>
References: <008601c892a6$2b865730$82930590$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
	<PC17602008033014460109681ee8a149@msapiro>
Message-ID: <009401c892b6$2baf48b0$830dda10$@slater@mesanetworks.net>

You guys really are great!!!   Thank you for your patience!!!

My IP address has been listed at SpamHaus. (I'm guessing because I reject
all e-mail from non-list members, and I should probably just delete it.)

Thank you again!

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 3:46 PM
To: Jon Slater; Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Where's my mail going?

Jon Slater wrote:
>
>Bounce:
>Mar 30 14:35:10 2008 (3766) <BounceRunner at 3083117612> processing 1
queued
>bounces
>Mar 30 14:35:10 2008 (3766) board: jon.slater at mesanetworks.net already
>scored a bounce for date 30-Mar-2008


The mail to you is bouncing.


>Maillog:
>Mar 30 14:35:05 drewjon sendmail[5308]: m2UKZ46S005308:
>from=<jon.slater at mesanetworks.net>, size=3098, class=0, nrcpts=1,
>msgid=<008101c892a5$967ddff0$c3799fd0$@slater at mesanetworks.net>,
>proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=mx11.mesanetworks.net [74.52.162.130]
>Mar 30 14:35:05 drewjon sendmail[5309]: m2UKZ46S005308:
>to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post board",
>ctladdr=<board at steeplechase-hoa.org> (8/0), delay=00:00:00,
xdelay=00:00:00,
>mailer=prog, pri=33304, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


Post is received and delivered to Mailman.


>Mar 30 14:35:06 drewjon sendmail[5311]: m2UKZ6Fg005311:
>from=<board-bounces at steeplechase-hoa.org>, size=4492, class=0, nrcpts=1,
>msgid=<008101c892a5$967ddff0$c3799fd0$@slater at mesanetworks.net>,
>proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]


Outging post is received from Mailman.


>Mar 30 14:35:08 drewjon sendmail[5313]: STARTTLS=client,
>relay=inbound.filter.theplanet.com., version=TLSv1/SSLv3, verify=FAIL,
>cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA, bits=256/256
>Mar 30 14:35:09 drewjon sendmail[5313]: m2UKZ6Fg005311:
>to=<jon.slater at mesanetworks.net>, delay=00:00:03, xdelay=00:00:03,
>mailer=esmtp, pri=124492, relay=inbound.filter.theplanet.com.
>[216.185.111.115], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown



And can't be delivered to <jon.slater at mesanetworks.net> because
stat=User unknown


>Mar 30 14:35:09 drewjon sendmail[5313]: m2UKZ6Fg005311: m2UKZ9Fg005313:
DSN:
>User unknown
>Mar 30 14:35:09 drewjon sendmail[5313]: m2UKZ9Fg005313:
>to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces board",
>ctladdr=<board-bounces at steeplechase-hoa.org> (8/0), delay=00:00:00,
>xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35697, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


DSN is returned to Mailman ultimately resulting in bounce log entry
above.

sendmail on this box doesn't know how to deliver to
<jon.slater at mesanetworks.net>. This is a sendmail configuration issue
of some kind.

dig tells me that the MX for mesanetworks.net is
inbound.filter.theplanet.com, but apparently this box (drewjon) thinks
that mesanetworks.net is a local domain and so attempts to deliver
locally instead of via the MX.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 - Release Date: 3/29/2008
5:02 PM



From Handlebarcorral at aol.com  Mon Mar 31 01:18:32 2008
From: Handlebarcorral at aol.com (Handlebarcorral at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:18:32 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions about the use of MailMan
Message-ID: <d68.262fc9d9.352179c8@aol.com>

 
Hi,
 
I have two questions.
1-How do I change the recipients email address to not say the email list  
name? I'd rather it state their unique email address instead.
 
2-Is there anything I can do so that the emails I send out are not caught  by 
spam? I have recently added all of my email addresses to mailman and I've  
noticed that the responses to my emails and hits to my website have dramatically 
 increased since using mailman. I'm afraid that my emails are going into spam 
 folders. Any suggestions? I'd like to continue using mailman but I can't if 
my  emails don't go through.
 
Thanks,
Lori Nix




**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL 
Home.      
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 31 03:20:05 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:20:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions about the use of MailMan
In-Reply-To: <d68.262fc9d9.352179c8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080330182005051565bdf068@msapiro>

Handlebarcorral at aol.com wrote:
> 
>I have two questions.
>1-How do I change the recipients email address to not say the email list  
>name? I'd rather it state their unique email address instead.


Set the admin Non-digest options -> personalize to Full personalization.

If you don't see the personalize setting, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.015.htp>.

If this is a hosted Mailman installation, the host would have to make
the changes necessary for you to see the personalize setting.

 
>2-Is there anything I can do so that the emails I send out are not caught  by 
>spam? I have recently added all of my email addresses to mailman and I've  
>noticed that the responses to my emails and hits to my website have dramatically 
> increased since using mailman. I'm afraid that my emails are going into spam 
> folders. Any suggestions? I'd like to continue using mailman but I can't if 
>my  emails don't go through.


If your responses have increased, why are you afraid your mail isn't
going through? Perhaps you meant 'decreased'?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp>,
but it probably won't be much help. Again, if this is a hosted Mailman
and if the hosting provider cares, it should be up to them to see that
the Mailman mail goes through.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From boxenberg at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 31 04:51:18 2008
From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:51:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
Message-ID: <BLU108-W3256AAC62E266532B2B6ACA3FA0@phx.gbl>

Hi,
I apologize if this is covered somewhere in the FAQ, I must have missed it.
I think I am pretty close to getting my first list working but having an issue I just cannot seem to work out on my own.
It has to do with postfix not being able to locate the aliases.db and I am getting lots of these in the syslog:
fatal: open database /etc/aliases;hash:/etc/mail/aliases.db: No such file or directory
In looking through the files on my machine, I have an aliases.db under /etc as in /etc/aliases.db and another under /etc/mail/
If I am interpreting the permissions on these aliases.db files, the one under /etc/mail appears to be associated with a smxx account, which I am guessing is Sendmail?  The other one, under the root of /etc is associated with the root user.
I thought Mailman should have configured aliases for me when I installed it???
In any event, how can I fix this problem?
Thanks@!
Dov

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Mar 31 05:01:18 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:01:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions about the use of MailMan
In-Reply-To: <d68.262fc9d9.352179c8@aol.com>
References: <d68.262fc9d9.352179c8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c41603d0a5d5@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/30/08, Handlebarcorral at aol.com wrote:

>  2-Is there anything I can do so that the emails I send out are not caught  by
>  spam? I have recently added all of my email addresses to mailman and I've
>  noticed that the responses to my emails and hits to my website have
>  dramatically increased since using mailman. I'm afraid that my emails are
>  going into spam folders. Any suggestions? I'd like to continue using
>  mailman but I can't if my  emails don't go through.

Run your mail server and your Mailman instance according to best 
practices, and the world should notice.


If not, the next step might be to consider signing up for service 
with a company like Habeas or ReturnPath where they charge you money 
to certify the way you're running your mail server and with their 
certification you tend to get a higher deliverability rate.

These aren't the only players in this space, but they are two of the 
best known, and they're the only two who are "whitelisted" by default 
in current versions of SpamAssassin, which is a popular anti-spam 
tool that many sites install.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 31 05:09:36 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:09:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <BLU108-W3256AAC62E266532B2B6ACA3FA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC17602008033020093600621ee89de2@msapiro>

Dov Oxenberg wrote:

>It has to do with postfix not being able to locate the aliases.db and I am getting lots of these in the syslog:
>fatal: open database /etc/aliases;hash:/etc/mail/aliases.db: No such file or directory

This looks like an error in Postfix's main.cf. It appears you have
something like

alias_maps = dbm:/etc/aliases;hash:/etc/mail/aliases.db

or possibly it's

alias_database = dbm:/etc/aliases;hash:/etc/mail/aliases.db

In any case, the rhs should be

   dbm:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mail/aliases

(i.e. the delimiter between tables is comma and/or whitespace, not
semicolon, and hash references do not include the .db extension).


>In looking through the files on my machine, I have an aliases.db under /etc as in /etc/aliases.db and another under /etc/mail/
>If I am interpreting the permissions on these aliases.db files, the one under /etc/mail appears to be associated with a smxx account, which I am guessing is Sendmail?  The other one, under the root of /etc is associated with the root user.
>I thought Mailman should have configured aliases for me when I installed it???
>In any event, how can I fix this problem?


See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html> and the "6.1.1
Integrating Postfix and Mailman" page linked from there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From boxenberg at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 31 06:11:51 2008
From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 00:11:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008033020093600621ee89de2@msapiro>
References: <BLU108-W3256AAC62E266532B2B6ACA3FA0@phx.gbl>
	<PC17602008033020093600621ee89de2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BLU108-W58B981A379B18637370D37A3FA0@phx.gbl>

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your prompt reply.
It seems you are right on target.  Below is the relevant data from my main.cf:
myhostname = mydomainname.comalias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases;hash:/etc/mail/aliasesalias_database = hash:/etc/aliasesmyorigin = /etc/mailnamemydestination = mydomainname.com, localhost.com, localhostrelayhost = mailserver.mydomainname.commynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8mailbox_command = procmail -a "$EXTENSION"mailbox_size_limit = 0recipient_delimiter = +inet_interfaces = 127.0.01alltransport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transportmailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1
Not sure what you mean by "dbm" but my understanding is I should modify the alias_maps variable  to "hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mail/aliases?"
What about the alias_database variable?  Do I need to add "/etc/mail/" to that as well?
Thanks!



> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:09:36 -0700> From: mark at msapiro.net> To: boxenberg at hotmail.com; mailman-users at python.org> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] alias question...> > Dov Oxenberg wrote:> > >It has to do with postfix not being able to locate the aliases.db and I am getting lots of these in the syslog:> >fatal: open database /etc/aliases;hash:/etc/mail/aliases.db: No such file or directory> > This looks like an error in Postfix's main.cf. It appears you have> something like> > alias_maps = dbm:/etc/aliases;hash:/etc/mail/aliases.db> > or possibly it's> > alias_database = dbm:/etc/aliases;hash:/etc/mail/aliases.db> > In any case, the rhs should be> > dbm:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mail/aliases> > (i.e. the delimiter between tables is comma and/or whitespace, not> semicolon, and hash references do not include the .db extension).> > > >In looking through the files on my machine, I have an aliases.db under /etc as in /etc/aliases.db and another under /etc/mail/> >If I am interpreting the permissions on these aliases.db files, the one under /etc/mail appears to be associated with a smxx account, which I am guessing is Sendmail? The other one, under the root of /etc is associated with the root user.> >I thought Mailman should have configured aliases for me when I installed it???> >In any event, how can I fix this problem?> > > See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html> and the "6.1.1> Integrating Postfix and Mailman" page linked from there.> > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 31 06:45:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:45:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <BLU108-W58B981A379B18637370D37A3FA0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU108-W3256AAC62E266532B2B6ACA3FA0@phx.gbl>
	<PC17602008033020093600621ee89de2@msapiro>
	<BLU108-W58B981A379B18637370D37A3FA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47F06C80.5060900@msapiro.net>

Dov Oxenberg wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> Thanks for your prompt reply.
> It seems you are right on target.  Below is the relevant data from my main.cf:
[some hotmail running together edited below]
> myhostname = mydomainname.com
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases;hash:/etc/mail/aliases
 > alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
 > myorigin = /etc/mailname
 > mydestination = mydomainname.com, localhost.com, localhost
 > relayhost = mailserver.mydomainname.com
 > mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8
 > mailbox_command = procmail -a "$EXTENSION"
 > mailbox_size_limit = 0
 > recipient_delimiter = +
 > inet_interfaces = 127.0.01  all
 > transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
 > mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1

> Not sure what you mean by "dbm" but my understanding is I should modify the alias_maps variable  to "hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mail/aliases?"

'dbm' was an erroneous assumption on my part. You are correct. It should be

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mail/aliases

> What about the alias_database variable?  Do I need to add "/etc/mail/" to that as well?

No.

But if you enable Mailman-Postfix integration per 
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>, you will need to add

   hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

(or whatever the correct path is) to alias_maps as discussed in the 
above reference

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From par at hunter-gatherer.org  Mon Mar 31 07:38:50 2008
From: par at hunter-gatherer.org (Par Leijonhufvud)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 07:38:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-gateway
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200803271410290609cb8c539e@msapiro>
References: <20080327191514.GF16117@sitsika>
	<PC1760200803271410290609cb8c539e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080331053850.GP16117@sitsika>

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> [2008.03.27] wrote:
> You might try doing a 'mass_catchup'. If somehow the list's
> usenet_watermark is too high, this will reset it.

Is there a way to do this from the command line? I don't have the list
admin password...

BTW, this advice (together with setting the NNTP user and pass rather
than trusting the "local is wide open" settings) did the trick for the
other lists, now I just have to get the last list -- local group
connection to work.

/Par


-- 
Par Leijonhufvud                               par at hunter-gatherer.org
Feudalism: It's your Count that Votes.
Democracy: It's your Vote that Counts.
Communism: Your Votes don't Count.

From spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com  Mon Mar 31 07:38:22 2008
From: spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com (Spyro Polymiadis)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:38:22 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cant Log into List admin
Message-ID: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A28DC36D645@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>

Hi there,

We're having an issue here, where I cant log into the admin page for a list, nor can the list accept mail to  it.. it seems as though the mail gets queued.. but never flushed ..

Any ideas anyone?

Cheers
Spyro


________________________________



This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments, which does not relate to the official business of the sending company must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by the sending company or any of its related entities. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect.

From spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com  Mon Mar 31 08:35:14 2008
From: spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com (Spyro Polymiadis)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:35:14 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cant Log into List admin
In-Reply-To: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A28DC36D645@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>
References: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A28DC36D645@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>
Message-ID: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A28DC36D683@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>

Just posting what I believe was the solution..
I saw that there was a bunch of lock files in the lock  directory matching the list name.. and a bunch of files in the queue all destined to that list.. and some were marcked as .bak instead of .pck
So I deleted the .bak files, and the lock files, restarted mailman.. and looks like everything is flowing again...

Any ideas on what may have caused this so I can look out for it and maybe prevent it for the future?

Cheers
Spyro

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+spyropolymiadis=kromestudios.com at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-
> bounces+spyropolymiadis=kromestudios.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Spyro
> Polymiadis
> Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 3:08 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cant Log into List admin
>
> Hi there,
>
> We're having an issue here, where I cant log into the admin page for a
> list, nor can the list accept mail to  it.. it seems as though the mail
> gets queued.. but never flushed ..
>
> Any ideas anyone?
>
> Cheers
> Spyro
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or
> confidential information. This message is intended for the use of the
> individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the
> addressee indicated in this message, or the employee or agent
> responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you
> may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone.
> Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments
> and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this
> message and its attachments, which does not relate to the official
> business of the sending company must be taken not to have been sent or
> endorsed by the sending company or any of its related entities. No
> warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from
> computer virus or other defect.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
> users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/spyropolymiadis%40kromestudios.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-
> mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp




This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments, which does not relate to the official business of the sending company must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by the sending company or any of its related entities. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect.

From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu  Mon Mar 31 17:27:13 2008
From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Chris Waltham)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:27:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives for a single list mysteriously stopped
Message-ID: <8A60B951-4603-4AD1-B6E0-CCD34DC36524@bowdoin.edu>

I have a list which is still passing messages correctly (the list is  
moderated) but messages are not appearing in the archives since March  
19, 2008. And, no, I don't think I changed anything on that day. :-)

A simple "check_perms" reports no issues at all, and archives for  
other lists are functioning correctly. I can view the archives of the  
list I'm having problems with -- so I don't think it's an Apache  
problem -- but messages sent to the list since March 19 don't appear  
in the archive. FWIW, here is the size of the archive:

[root at list private]# du -ksh ams-*
18M	ams-announce
4.2M	ams-announce.mbox

Here are the archive settings for the list:

# List traffic archival policies.
archive = 1
# Is archive file source for public or private archival?
archive_private = 0
# How often should a new archive volume be started?
archive_volume_frequency = 1

I just ran a "arch --wipe ams-announce", and that seems to have fixed  
the problem as a test message I sent this morning now appears in the  
archives; as does other mail that was sent after March 19th and before  
today. Just out of interest, what kind of things could stop an archive  
from suddenly stopping? Bad HTML/MIME in a message?

Thanks,


Chris
-- 
Chris Waltham
Systems Engineer
Bowdoin College
Tel: (207) 798-7029
Cel: (207) 607-1939
cwaltham at bowdoin.edu




From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 31 17:40:02 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:40:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cant Log into List admin
In-Reply-To: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A28DC36D683@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080331084002037505bb1039@msapiro>

Spyro Polymiadis wrote:

>Just posting what I believe was the solution..
>I saw that there was a bunch of lock files in the lock  directory matching the list name.. and a bunch of files in the queue all destined to that list.. and some were marcked as .bak instead of .pck
>So I deleted the .bak files, and the lock files, restarted mailman.. and looks like everything is flowing again...
>
>Any ideas on what may have caused this so I can look out for it and maybe prevent it for the future?


It is unclear why there was more that one .bak unless you are running
multiple slices for IncomingRunner. One .bak file would be the
'backup' entry for the message currently being processed by the
IncomingRunner waiting for the lock.

It appears that something, possibly a web CGI, died and left the list
locked. The lock files themselves had a lot of information, but they
are gone. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.076.htp>.

At this point, there may be information in Mailman's 'error', 'locks'
and/or 'qrunner' logs that would help.

If it in fact was the case that it was one stale lock causing the
problem, it would have been sufficient to simply remove the one
<listname>.lock.<hostname>.<pid>.<seq> file whose <pid> was gone and
whose name was the contents of the <listname>.lock file, and then also
remove the <listname>.lock file itself.

Note also, that by deleting the .bak files, you probably lost the
messages they contained. Had you left them, they would have been
'recovered' when you restarted Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 31 18:39:53 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 09:39:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives for a single list mysteriously stopped
In-Reply-To: <8A60B951-4603-4AD1-B6E0-CCD34DC36524@bowdoin.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020080331093953003125542eb4@msapiro>

Chris Waltham wrote:
>
>I just ran a "arch --wipe ams-announce", and that seems to have fixed  
>the problem as a test message I sent this morning now appears in the  
>archives; as does other mail that was sent after March 19th and before  
>today. Just out of interest, what kind of things could stop an archive  
>from suddenly stopping? Bad HTML/MIME in a message?


No. If it was a bad message, the message would still have been in the
archives/private/ams-announce.mbox/ams-announce.mbox file, and "arch
--wipe" would have encountered the same problem.

It was more likely a corrupt archives/private/ams-announce/database/*
or archives/private/ams-announce/pipermail.pck file.

I would expect to find lots of errors and tracebacks in Mailman's error
log related to this problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 31 19:00:10 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 10:00:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-gateway
In-Reply-To: <20080331053850.GP16117@sitsika>
Message-ID: <PC1760200803311000100968044cddb2@msapiro>

Par Leijonhufvud wrote:

>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> [2008.03.27] wrote:
>> You might try doing a 'mass_catchup'. If somehow the list's
>> usenet_watermark is too high, this will reset it.
>
>Is there a way to do this from the command line? I don't have the list
>admin password...


You could use the site password (set with bin/mmsitepass) to access the
GUI, or you could use withlist as in


[mark at sbh16 mailman]$ bin/withlist -l mailman
Loading list mailman (locked)
The variable `m' is the mailman MailList instance
>>> m.usenet_watermark = None
>>> m.Save()
>>>
Unlocking (but not saving) list: mailman
Finalizing
[mark at sbh16 mailman]$


using your own list name instead of 'mailman'. Note that the apparent
empty entry following m.Save() is actually control-D (^D - end of
file) to exit withlist.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mikaelhansen2 at comcast.net  Mon Mar 31 21:23:13 2008
From: mikaelhansen2 at comcast.net (Mikael Hansen)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:23:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Inactive members
Message-ID: <50777A34-EE43-4D2F-878D-DD1CBF6BE8F3@comcast.net>

Hello,

I was wondering if there is a way to automatically unsubscribe or  
disable the membership for those who have not posted to a list for a  
given period of time.

Mikael


From zack.galbreath at gmail.com  Mon Mar 31 21:26:46 2008
From: zack.galbreath at gmail.com (Zack Galbreath)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:26:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rebuilding .mbox
Message-ID: <47F13AF6.8090600@gmail.com>

Hi list,

I accidentally blanked the .mbox file of a mailing list of mine.   Is it 
possible to rebuild this file from the HTML archives?

TIA,
-Zack

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 31 22:32:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:32:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Inactive members
In-Reply-To: <50777A34-EE43-4D2F-878D-DD1CBF6BE8F3@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602008033113324706093c7e8cf0@msapiro>

Mikael Hansen wrote:
>
>I was wondering if there is a way to automatically unsubscribe or  
>disable the membership for those who have not posted to a list for a  
>given period of time.


There is nothing direct in Mailman. You could make a file of addresses
and post dates (or most recent post date) from Mailman's post log or
maintain it on an ongoing basis from the post log, and then get a list
of recent posters and use it as input to bin/sync_members, but do you
really think this is a good idea?

Just the first problem that comes to mind is people that subscribe to
both messages and digests with two different addresses and maybe only
post from one.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 31 22:51:33 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:51:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rebuilding .mbox
In-Reply-To: <47F13AF6.8090600@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008033113513307505982ee2f@msapiro>

Zack Galbreath wrote:
>
>I accidentally blanked the .mbox file of a mailing list of mine.   Is it 
>possible to rebuild this file from the HTML archives?


Not really.

There were headers in the .mbox file that aren't anywhere in the
pipermail archive. That information is lost as is the original MIME
structure. The closest you can come is if you have all the periodic
.txt files, you can 'unmung' the addresses in the From_ separators and
From: headers and concatenate the files, but these files contain
flattened/scrubbed messages, not the originals. Any non-plain text
parts or text/plain parts with unknown character set have been
separately stored and replaced by hyperlinks.

You're better off looking for a recent backup if there is one.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From boxenberg at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 31 23:39:24 2008
From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:39:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008033020093600621ee89de2@msapiro>
References: <BLU108-W3256AAC62E266532B2B6ACA3FA0@phx.gbl>
	<PC17602008033020093600621ee89de2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BLU108-W15115DD4F539B3BE53BF0CA3FA0@phx.gbl>

Hi,
Actually this is probably the fourth or fifth time I am revisiting "Chapter 6." 
But I seem to be making better progress now than in my previous attempts.
I am at the part where I am trying to make sure data/aliases* have the correct ownership, GID, etc.  When I issue "genaliases" it seems to work...at least I get the command prompt back with no reported errors. Then, I try to do "chown mailman:mailman..." and am receiving the error message "chown: cannot access 'data/aliases*' : No such file or directory"
I should point out in my installation the path to the mailman bin is /usr/lib/mailman/bin in case that makes any difference.  But I thought by running the "genaliases" (from the mailman "bin" directory) the script would create the aliases for me???  Obviously I am mistaken...but what am I doing wrong now????
Thanks!
 



> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:09:36 -0700> From: mark at msapiro.net> To: boxenberg at hotmail.com; mailman-users at python.org> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] alias question...> > Dov Oxenberg wrote:> > >It has to do with postfix not being able to locate the aliases.db and I am getting lots of these in the syslog:> >fatal: open database /etc/aliases;hash:/etc/mail/aliases.db: No such file or directory> > This looks like an error in Postfix's main.cf. It appears you have> something like> > alias_maps = dbm:/etc/aliases;hash:/etc/mail/aliases.db> > or possibly it's> > alias_database = dbm:/etc/aliases;hash:/etc/mail/aliases.db> > In any case, the rhs should be> > dbm:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mail/aliases> > (i.e. the delimiter between tables is comma and/or whitespace, not> semicolon, and hash references do not include the .db extension).> > > >In looking through the files on my machine, I have an aliases.db under /etc as in /etc/aliases.db and another under /etc/mail/> >If I am interpreting the permissions on these aliases.db files, the one under /etc/mail appears to be associated with a smxx account, which I am guessing is Sendmail? The other one, under the root of /etc is associated with the root user.> >I thought Mailman should have configured aliases for me when I installed it???> >In any event, how can I fix this problem?> > > See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html> and the "6.1.1> Integrating Postfix and Mailman" page linked from there.> > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 31 23:55:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:55:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <BLU108-W15115DD4F539B3BE53BF0CA3FA0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU108-W3256AAC62E266532B2B6ACA3FA0@phx.gbl>
	<PC17602008033020093600621ee89de2@msapiro>
	<BLU108-W15115DD4F539B3BE53BF0CA3FA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47F15DD4.8050707@msapiro.net>

Dov Oxenberg wrote:
> Hi,
> Actually this is probably the fourth or fifth time I am revisiting 
> "Chapter 6."
> But I seem to be making better progress now than in my previous attempts.
> I am at the part where I am trying to make sure data/aliases* have the 
> correct ownership, GID, etc.  When I issue "genaliases" it seems to 
> work...at least I get the command prompt back with no reported errors. 
> Then, I try to do "chown mailman:mailman..." and am receiving the error 
> message "chown: cannot access 'data/aliases*' : No such file or directory"


Have you set

MTA = 'Postfix'

in mm_cfg.py? Probably you have since genaliases would report a lot of 
aliases if it were the default MTA = 'Manual'.


> I should point out in my installation the path to the mailman bin is 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin in case that makes any difference.  But I thought 
> by running the "genaliases" (from the mailman "bin" directory) the 
> script would create the aliases for me???  Obviously I am mistaken...but 
> what am I doing wrong now????


Assuming that you do have MTA = 'Postfix', you need to be in the right 
directory when you do the chown. This certainly isn't 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin. It may be /usr/lib/mailman/data, or something else 
  depending on how the Mailman you are installing was configured. The 
name of the directory id data/ and it will be in whatever was configured 
as var-prefix which may be /usr/lib/mailman/ or something in /var.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan