From honneus at cisco.com  Mon Jun  2 13:34:24 2008
From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus))
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 07:34:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable monthly membership reminder
Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D88EE0F3@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>

Hi,
 
Anyone know how I can disable the monthly membership reminder email that
gets sent out to all members of a mailing list?
 
Thanks,
 
Bill

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun  2 23:25:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:25:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable monthly membership reminder
In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D88EE0F3@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>
References: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D88EE0F3@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <4844654F.10608@msapiro.net>

Bill Honneus wrote:
>  
> Anyone know how I can disable the monthly membership reminder email that
> gets sent out to all members of a mailing list?


For an individual list or lists, set send_reminders to No under 
Notifications on the list's General Options page

To make this setting the default for new lists (no effect on existing 
lists) set

DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = No

in mm_cfg.py.

To totally disable the sending of reminders for the site, comment out or 
remove the cron/mailpasswds entry from Mailman's crontab.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 00:03:44 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:03:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1.9 acceptable_aliases
In-Reply-To: <20080522142713.D3807175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
References: <20080522142713.D3807175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <48446E40.9010402@msapiro.net>

Barry Finkel wrote:

> Barry Finkel wrote:
> 
>>>> There was a posting to a number of lists here yesterday 
>>>> 
>>>>      To: comp_info+cats+noc at example.com
>>>> 
>>>> all of the lists are linked; some of the lists are subscribed to others.
>>>> I took that address and added it to
>>>> 
>>>>      acceptable_aliases
> 
> 
> And Mark Sapiro replied:
> 
>>>What did you add to acceptable_aliases? And for which list(s)?
>>>
>>>A post addressed to comp_info+cats+noc at example.com will presumably be 
>>>delivered to the comp_info list. In order for it not to be held by that 
>>>list, you need either
>>>
>>>comp_info+cats+noc at example.com


As you discovered, the above is wrong. All entries in acceptable_aliases 
are interpreted as regexps, thus any regexp special characters must be 
escaped as you indicate below.


> I have not looked at the code, and I am not an expert in regular
> expressions.  I surmise that Mailman is treating the address as a
> regular expression, which matches
> 
>      ab at anl.gov
>      aab at anl.gov
>      aaab at anl.gov
>      aaaab at anl.gov
>      ...
> 
> but does not match
> 
>      a+b at anl.gov
> 
> I then changed the acceptable_aliases to
> 
>      a\+b at anl.gov
> 
> and test mail was distributed.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jlieber at goengineer.com  Mon Jun  2 20:24:25 2008
From: jlieber at goengineer.com (John Lieber)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 13:24:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New install problem
Message-ID: <E7B2FA0BBB4B5D41928ECC77AEFEBF9002A2B03E@mail-33ps.atlarge.net>

I've got a fresh new install on an Ubuntu Server 8, Mailman version
2.1.9 (installed from apt). Agent is Postfix

 

I have the list installed and appears to be running.  Mail sent to the
list shows up in the archive.  However the members are not receiving any
mail from the lists.  Checked the spam filter/bucket.

 

I can send mail from the host...

 

Any suggestions on where to start looking?  I am up for doing the work
in tracking this down but not sure where to start.


From dnewman at networktest.com  Tue Jun  3 00:22:48 2008
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:22:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable monthly membership reminder
In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D88EE0F3@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>
References: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D88EE0F3@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <484472B8.5010703@networktest.com>

On 6/2/08 4:34 AM, Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote:
> Hi,
>  
> Anyone know how I can disable the monthly membership reminder email that
> gets sent out to all members of a mailing list?

It's "send_reminders" on the general options page, under notifications.

dn


>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Bill
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dnewman%40networktest.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 


From terri at zone12.com  Tue Jun  3 00:32:47 2008
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 18:32:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable monthly membership reminder
In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D88EE0F3@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>
References: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D88EE0F3@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <66CAFCE1-C797-48D7-89E5-E35C063AD452@zone12.com>


On 2-Jun-08, at 7:34 AM, Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote:
> Anyone know how I can disable the monthly membership reminder email  
> that
> gets sent out to all members of a mailing list?
>

There's an option for this entitled "Send monthly password  
reminders?" (it's under "Notifications" on the general options page)

  Terri


From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Mon Jun  2 16:44:17 2008
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 16:44:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists break when "host_name" is removed
Message-ID: <8C7E224F5B8906E14D4EC595@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

Hi,

every once in a while one of our list owners shoots themselves in the foot 
by deleting the value in "host_name". That breaks the list almost 
completely. Is there a way for us to override that setting, so that list 
admins can't change it or the changed value isn't used?

Thanks, Sebastian
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
                   .:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.
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From henry at dotrose.com  Tue Jun  3 00:29:30 2008
From: henry at dotrose.com (Henry Hartley)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:29:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable monthly membership reminder
In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D88EE0F3@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>
References: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D88EE0F3@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <4844744A.9060305@dotrose.com>

Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote:
> Anyone know how I can disable the monthly membership reminder email that
> gets sent out to all members of a mailing list? 

On the General Options page, under Notifications (about half way down), 
the first setting is "Send monthly password reminders?"  I assume that's 
what you mean.

-- 
Henry


From rick at rpwebworks.com  Tue Jun  3 03:17:35 2008
From: rick at rpwebworks.com (Rick Parola)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 21:17:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Links in email messages are wrong. Please help
Message-ID: <200806022117.36182.rick@rpwebworks.com>

I've been scratching my head on this one for a while now. I'm running mailman 
1:2.1.9-7 on Debian stable, all of the links in emails to users or admin are 
missing a slash:

".....
You can configure your mailing list at the following web page:

? ? http://domain.com/cgi-bin/mailmanadmin/test3

The web page for users of your mailing list is: 

? ? http://domain.com/cgi-bin/mailmanlistinfo/test3
....."

therefore point to a 404 page :-(

Where do I look for those links?

-- 
Rick Parola
RPWebworks
386-931-5013
http://www.rpwebworks.com/


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 03:22:09 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:22:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists break when "host_name" is removed
In-Reply-To: <8C7E224F5B8906E14D4EC595@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
References: <8C7E224F5B8906E14D4EC595@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <48449CC1.4060600@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
|
| every once in a while one of our list owners shoots themselves in the
| foot by deleting the value in "host_name". That breaks the list almost
| completely. Is there a way for us to override that setting, so that list
| admins can't change it or the changed value isn't used?

Probably the easiest way is to find the following lines in
Mailman/Gui/General.py and remove or comment them out.


~            ('host_name', mm_cfg.Host, WIDTH, 0,
~             _('Host name this list prefers for email.'),

~             _("""The "host_name" is the preferred name for email to
~             mailman-related addresses on this host, and generally
should be
~             the mail host's exchanger address, if any.  This setting
can be
~             useful for selecting among alternative names of a host
that has
~             multiple addresses.""")),


This will remove the setting from the General Options page.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 03:41:54 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:41:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Links in email messages are wrong. Please help
In-Reply-To: <200806022117.36182.rick@rpwebworks.com>
References: <200806022117.36182.rick@rpwebworks.com>
Message-ID: <4844A162.9030703@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Rick Parola wrote:
| I've been scratching my head on this one for a while now. I'm running
mailman
| 1:2.1.9-7 on Debian stable, all of the links in emails to users or
admin are
| missing a slash:
|
| ".....
| You can configure your mailing list at the following web page:
|
|     http://domain.com/cgi-bin/mailmanadmin/test3
|
| The web page for users of your mailing list is:
|
|     http://domain.com/cgi-bin/mailmanlistinfo/test3
| ....."
|
| therefore point to a 404 page :-(
|
| Where do I look for those links?

The problem is when you (or Debian) put

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman'

in mm_cfg.py (or in Defaults.py ?), the trailing slash was omitted.

You need to put

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'

in mm_cfg.py, but this will only fix the problem for new lists. To fix
existing lists, you will need to run fix_url. See
<http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030609>.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 05:09:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 20:09:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New install problem
In-Reply-To: <E7B2FA0BBB4B5D41928ECC77AEFEBF9002A2B03E@mail-33ps.atlarge.net>
Message-ID: <PC183020080602200935034332efeb3a@msapiro>

John Lieber wrote:

>I've got a fresh new install on an Ubuntu Server 8, Mailman version
>2.1.9 (installed from apt). Agent is Postfix
>
> 
>
>I have the list installed and appears to be running.  Mail sent to the
>list shows up in the archive.  However the members are not receiving any
>mail from the lists.  Checked the spam filter/bucket.
>
> 
>
>I can send mail from the host...


See
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Troubleshooting-++No+mail+going+out+to+lists+members>.
Since posts are being received and archived, the problem is in
outgoing message processing. Focus on OutgoingRunner, Mailman's error,
smtp and smtp-failure logs, and Mailman's out queue.

Also make sure that the list members have delivery enabled and are not
set to 'digest' mode.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 05:37:36 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:37:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] high memory usage and long running time for
 mailman Python process
In-Reply-To: <4837631F.9030107@gmail.com>
References: <4837631F.9030107@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4844BC80.8000200@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Terrence Brannon wrote:
|
| Hello, I am running Debian/etch and the user "list" has a Python process
| which takes up 83.2% of my memory and has been running for more than 40
| minutes.
|
| My suspicion is that some sort of queue of moderator messages is very
| large.
|
| In fact, /var/lib/mailman/ is very large... I cannot access the
| administrator interface via the web:
|
| 6733    ./qfiles
| 21551   ./messages
| 60071   ./lists/asciidoc-discuss
| 60093   ./lists
| 288500  ./data
| 380881  .
|
|
| In looking through archives, I discovered I have more than 60,000 held
| messages for one mailing list:
|
| schemelab at li2-168:/var/lib/mailman/data$ ls -l | wc -l
| 64688
|
| but for some reason attempting to discard even one is not working... it
| just sits there and hangs:
|
| schemelab at li2-168:/var/lib/mailman/data$ sudo ../bin/discard
| heldmsg-asciidoc-discuss-59527.pck
| Password:
|
| (no return to shell after 5 minutes)
|

and

| I posted this
| <http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/msg49373.html>
| and basically the whole list is having other discussions like I never
| even posted...


The second item has been addressed. I just want to add that sometimes we
even go on vacation and don't take our computers.

As far as your first issue is concerned, bin/discard is the best tool to
delete these held messages. If you can't wait for it to complete, or for
some reason it won't complete, you can remove
lists/asciidoc-discuss/request.pck which is the 'moderator queue'. This
will allow you to access your list. As Brad suggested
(<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-May/061765.html>),
it would be good to stop Mailman, remove the request.pck, remove all the
data/heldmsg-asciidoc-discuss-*.pck files, move aside and remake the
mailman/data directory to compact it, and start Mailman.

Then, consider setting the lists General Options->max_days_to_hold to
some small, non-zero value so this doesn't happen again

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 05:41:49 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:41:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] custom mime precedence?
In-Reply-To: <37A809CA-9497-4565-9D19-DEA708328F2C@zone12.com>
References: <37A809CA-9497-4565-9D19-DEA708328F2C@zone12.com>
Message-ID: <4844BD7D.7050901@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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Terri Oda wrote
|
| On 24-May-08, at 8:23 AM, andReadG wrote:
|
|> Hi all!
|>
|> This is the situation: attachments are stripped
|> (which is as I intended), but many messages
|> come in as multipart, with 1st part as text/plain
|> and second one as text/html. The senders, intended
|> to send the 2nd one (formatted to draw attention
|> in specific parts), but, being treated as
|> attachment, stays at the server.
|>
|> Is there a way around? I mean extract and keep
|> all non-text attachments for http download,
|> but exclude text/html and let it through along
|> with the plain text, or be preferred over it?
|>
|
| What does your pass_mime_types look like for this list?  If you tell
| it to let text/html through, as well as text/plain, people will get
| the double messages the way they were sent, but most mail clients
| handle that gracefully the way the sender intended.
|
| You want something that looks like this:
| multipart/mixed
| multipart/alternative
| text/plain
| text/html
| multipart/signed


You also have to set Content filtering->collapse_alternatives to No

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 05:58:05 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:58:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists
 and harvesters
In-Reply-To: <20080524021647.220D5181075@friskymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com>
References: <20080524021647.220D5181075@friskymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com>
Message-ID: <4844C14D.9000502@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

| I think the Topica listserver had a great way to deal with email
| addresses in archives. You could see a semblance of the email address,
| but no way could you deduce the real address. If you are logged into
| the site, each is still obscured, but is a live link that opens up an
| email-like dialog box -- with the real address still obscured. But it
| does send an email to the real address for the obscured address.


Try clicking the 'forward' button when viewing a message in a Topica
archive. It reveals all.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Tue Jun  3 05:59:18 2008
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 22:59:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords
In-Reply-To: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se>
References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se>
Message-ID: <FA3CD2B5-D6F3-4F94-A0B7-3074A4151A18@goldmark.org>

On May 26, 2008, at 1:59 AM, Laura Creighton wrote:

> So what people _want_ is a way to log in with a password and then have
> mailman recognise them and make it possible for them to administer all
> the lists they run.

I agree.  And I look forward to something like this in Mailman 3, but  
for the time being I am going to preach:

<Rant>
Every system administrator or knowledgeable person should be trying to  
persuade people to use good password management systems so that they  
don't have to remember most passwords.  For Windows, I recommend  
Password Safe and for OS X, I recommend 1Password.  Users of other  
systems are probably already using password management systems.   
pwsafe will maintain compatible databases with Password Safe.

So, I would take the current poor situation with mailman's failure to  
distinguish between authorization and authentication as an opportunity  
to educate people about password management systems.
</Rant>

Cheers,

-j


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 06:03:36 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 21:03:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists
 and harvesters
In-Reply-To: <200805271744.m4RHiq5i028299@newbox.eroded.org>
References: <200805271744.m4RHiq5i028299@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <4844C298.3010207@msapiro.net>

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Dragon wrote:
|
| If I am not mistaken, I believe that there is currently a wrapper
| script that handles access control to private archives but which gets
| bypassed if the archive is public. The current architecture under
| pipermail is that the actual archive pages themselves are just static
| HTML files and the wrapper script only has the function of setting
| and checking an access token in a cookie to access them if the
| archive is private.


See
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=850805&group_id=103&atid=300103>
for one approach to this.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 06:41:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 21:41:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive/attachment preening
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B99EDEA@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B99EDEA@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <4844CB69.3090400@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Savoy, Jim wrote:
|
| Please confirm the assumptions I am about to make before I write the
| preening
| scripts for cron. I also want to write a bunch of scripts that look for
| certain information.
|
| 1) If a list is digestable and archiving was never turned on, then the
|    archives/private/listname/index.html will contain only the
| originally-created file
|    (which basically says "No messages have been posted to this list yet,
| so the
|    archives are currently empty").


It may also contain an archives/private/listname/attachments directory
with attachments that were scrubbed from 'plain' digests or scrubbed
from messages if scrub_nondigest (not in 2.1.5) is Yes.


| 2) If there is no mbox file in the /archives/private/listname.mbox
| directory, then the list
|     has never had archiving turned on.


Or never had a post.


| 3) If a list is digestable but there is no attachments directory in
| /archives/private/listname,
|     then the list has never had a message posted to it.


It may have had posts, just no posts with scrubbed attachments.


| 4) If the list is digestable, and archiving has never been turned on,
| then files in the
|     archives/private/listname/attachments directory are only useful to
| already-existing
|     subscribers who have digesting turned on (ie if I poll a list and it
| has no members
|     subscribed as digest users, then it is safe to delete all files in
| the attachments tree).


It could have had a digest member who received and saved a digest with a
link to a scrubbed attachment, and later switched to message mode.

Also in later Mailman, it could be a list with scrub_nondigest = Yes
that has scrubbed attachments from messages as opposed to digests.


| If all of my above assumptions are correct, my psuedo-code would do
| something like this:
|
|   if (list is not archived and has no digest members)
|       keep stuff in attachments dir for 1 month;
|
|   if (list is not archived but does have digest members)
|     keep stuff in attachments dir for 1 year;
|
|   if (list is archived)
|     keep stuff in attachments dir for 3 years;
|
| For the archived lists (we have about 150 of them) I will contact the
| owners first, to warn them
| that I plan to pare their archive down to 3 years max. If they protest,
| I will add them as an
| exception to the rule and skip over them during the cron job run. I know
| that there is more to
| be done with regards to reducing the size of archives (ie running arch
| --wipe on the editted, pared
| down .mbox file, but I will do that manually). For now I am mostly
| interesting in keeping the
| stuff in the attachments directories to a minimum. I realize that
| deleting stuff in /attachments
| breaks links in the archive and digest messages, but I think that is
| reasonable for the really
| old messages (provided the list owner concurs).
|
| One final question. I know that you can change a list's settings with
| /bin/config_list, but can you
| poll a list for settings? For example, you can use "/bin/list_members
| -d" to see which members
| of a list read in digest mode, but how can I find out which lists have
| archiving turned on? Or do I
| have to examine the archives/private tree to garner that kind of info?
| Thanks!


bin/config_list -o - listname | grep '^archive ='

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Tue Jun  3 10:57:38 2008
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 10:57:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists break when "host_name" is removed
In-Reply-To: <48449CC1.4060600@msapiro.net>
References: <8C7E224F5B8906E14D4EC595@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<48449CC1.4060600@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4FC949639E332CBF216DE475@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

Hi Mark,

--On 2. Juni 2008 18:22:09 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
>|
>| every once in a while one of our list owners shoots themselves in the
>| foot by deleting the value in "host_name". That breaks the list almost
>| completely. Is there a way for us to override that setting, so that list
>| admins can't change it or the changed value isn't used?
>
> Probably the easiest way is to find the following lines in
> Mailman/Gui/General.py and remove or comment them out.

thanks, that did the trick. As a follow-up now I wonder how I can determine 
if that setting has been changed. The "config_list -o" command doesn't seem 
to print it!? I'm a bit worried that there may be time bombs, i.e. lists 
that have been misconfigured when that GUI option still existed. The way it 
is now I wouldn't even be able to confirm that, it seems.
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
                   .:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.
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From carloswill at gmail.com  Tue Jun  3 14:46:32 2008
From: carloswill at gmail.com (Carlos Williams)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:46:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Address Format
Message-ID: <d80f793f0806030546t71ba1438sd25b09b16a4a8974@mail.gmail.com>

I was wondering why when something is sent to a mailman alias address
is the actual email address manipulated to show a different non
existing address.

For example, I create a mailman group "everyone" so now people can
email <everyone at example.com> and when the users get an email from that
group, they see the following header info:

Return Path = <everyone-bounces at example.com>
X-Original-To = <everyone at example.com>
Delivered-To = <everyone at example.com>

So when people see this, they attempt to send back to
everyone-bounces at example.com and of course the email is rejected
because that address does not exist. I as an email administrator
understand how to read the header but most common users don't and
almost always send to the wrong address. They become frustrated and
annoyed with Mailman and want this fixed. I explain to them to not
copy and paste the email address but rather to simply reply to all or
reply to sender.

Why does mailman do this? I don't understand the "bounce" parameter
and or why it does not show its from "everyone at example.com".

Thanks for any clarification or info on how to resolve this.

-- 
Man your battle stations...

From cite at incertum.net  Tue Jun  3 14:52:00 2008
From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:52:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Address Format
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0806030546t71ba1438sd25b09b16a4a8974@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d80f793f0806030546t71ba1438sd25b09b16a4a8974@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080603125200.GG31788@mail.incertum.net>

* Carlos Williams <carloswill at gmail.com> wrote:
> Why does mailman do this? I don't understand the "bounce" parameter
> and or why it does not show its from "everyone at example.com".

The "listname-bounce" localpart is used for automatic bounce
detection. Have a look at:

<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.028.htp>

Bounce detection is an integral part of every mailing list managing
software: It allows users whose email addresses are not valid any
longer to be removed from the list without the need for a human being
to manually look at logfiles to determine this.


Cheers
Stefan
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9
Free speech tastes better than free beer.

From b19141 at anl.gov  Tue Jun  3 15:04:40 2008
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue,  3 Jun 2008 08:04:40 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Address Format
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Carlos Williams" <carloswill@gmail.com>'
	dated: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:46:32 -0400
Message-ID: <20080603130440.8EA03175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

"Carlos Williams" <carloswill at gmail.com> wrote:

>I was wondering why when something is sent to a mailman alias address
>is the actual email address manipulated to show a different non
>existing address.
>
>For example, I create a mailman group "everyone" so now people can
>email <everyone at example.com> and when the users get an email from that
>group, they see the following header info:
>
>Return Path = <everyone-bounces at example.com>
>X-Original-To = <everyone at example.com>
>Delivered-To = <everyone at example.com>
>
>So when people see this, they attempt to send back to
>everyone-bounces at example.com and of course the email is rejected
>because that address does not exist. I as an email administrator
>understand how to read the header but most common users don't and
>almost always send to the wrong address. They become frustrated and
>annoyed with Mailman and want this fixed. I explain to them to not
>copy and paste the email address but rather to simply reply to all or
>reply to sender.
>
>Why does mailman do this? I don't understand the "bounce" parameter
>and or why it does not show its from "everyone at example.com".
>
>Thanks for any clarification or info on how to resolve this.

The address is set so that bounced mail will be sent back to the
-bounces address ,and Mailman can process the bounce according to the
bounce parameters configured for the list.

In the aliases file there should be a -bounces address for each list.
Here is what I have in the

     /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

file on Ubuntu:

# STANZA START: mailman 
# CREATED: Fri Mar  9 14:35:32 2007
mailman:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 15:52:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 06:52:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists break when "host_name" is removed
In-Reply-To: <4FC949639E332CBF216DE475@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
References: <8C7E224F5B8906E14D4EC595@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<48449CC1.4060600@msapiro.net>
	<4FC949639E332CBF216DE475@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <48454C91.5020903@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
| Hi Mark,
|
| --On 2. Juni 2008 18:22:09 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
|
|> Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
|> |
|> | every once in a while one of our list owners shoots themselves in the
|> | foot by deleting the value in "host_name". That breaks the list almost
|> | completely. Is there a way for us to override that setting, so that
|> list
|> | admins can't change it or the changed value isn't used?
|>
|> Probably the easiest way is to find the following lines in
|> Mailman/Gui/General.py and remove or comment them out.
|
| thanks, that did the trick. As a follow-up now I wonder how I can
| determine if that setting has been changed. The "config_list -o" command
| doesn't seem to print it!? I'm a bit worried that there may be time
| bombs, i.e. lists that have been misconfigured when that GUI option
| still existed. The way it is now I wouldn't even be able to confirm
| that, it seems.


config_list -o only outputs those list attributes which are in the GUI.
Since you removed host_name from the GUI, config_list -o no longer
prints it.

If you do not use virtual domains, the easiest thing is to run

bin/withlist -a -l -r fix_url -- -v

which will set host_name to the DEFAULT_URL_HOST value and web_page_url
to the value of DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN interpolated with the value of
DEFAULT_URL_HOST. The '-- -v' is optional and causes the command to
report the web_page_url and host_name settings for each list after they
are set.

If you have more than one domain, you need to do something like

#!/bin/sh
for list in lists_in_www.example.com_domain ; do
~  bin/withlist -l -r fix_url $list -u www.example.com -v
done

for each domain.

If you just want to see the host_names, you can copy the following to
bin/show_host_name.py

- --------------------cut here------------------
def show_host_name(mlist):
~    print 'list: %s, host_name: %s' % (mlist.real_name, mlist.host_name)
- --------------------cut here------------------

and run

bin/withlist -a -r show_host_name

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Tue Jun  3 16:12:47 2008
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:12:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists break when "host_name" is removed
In-Reply-To: <48454C91.5020903@msapiro.net>
References: <8C7E224F5B8906E14D4EC595@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<48449CC1.4060600@msapiro.net>
	<4FC949639E332CBF216DE475@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<48454C91.5020903@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <31423F8B830B9D674271DFD8@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

--On 3. Juni 2008 06:52:17 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> config_list -o only outputs those list attributes which are in the GUI.

Ah, tricky!

> If you just want to see the host_names, you can copy the following to
> bin/show_host_name.py
>
> - --------------------cut here------------------
> def show_host_name(mlist):
> ~    print 'list: %s, host_name: %s' % (mlist.real_name, mlist.host_name)
> - --------------------cut here------------------
>
> and run
>
> bin/withlist -a -r show_host_name

Great! That way I was able to verify quickly that all lists are configured 
correctly. Thank you very much!

This withlist mechanism is pretty cool, I must say.
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
                   .:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.
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From bergenpeak at comcast.net  Tue Jun  3 17:19:33 2008
From: bergenpeak at comcast.net (bergenpeak at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 09:19:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail distro, newsgroup, or both?
Message-ID: <48456105.8080206@comcast.net>

   
Hi,

I'm trying to determine if the problem I have is best solved by mailman, 
a newsgroup, or both.

I'd like to setup an open mail distro such that when one writes or 
receives an e-mail with useful information, one could forward (or cc) 
the mailman distro.  The mailman distro would archive the contents and  
provide a means for others to review the threads for useful 
information.   I'd also like to overlay a search engine so one could go 
to a web site, enter some key words, and search the mailman archive.

I'd like the mail distro to be "open" meaning one shouldn't have to 
subscribe to send to the distro.  I'm thinking the mail distro would 
have no receipients other than the archive.  It's sort of like a 
newsgroup but where info could be added to the "newgroup" (archive) via 
e-mail.

Have others tried to setup a similar service and if so, which path did 
you take and why

Is there an easy way to index and search over one or more mailman distros?

I'm not sure how to address "followups".  In a newsgroup paradigm, 
replying to a post brings that thread to the top of the newsgroups.  I 
don't think that's the cases with mailman and threads (though I could be 
wrong). 

I've been holding off going down the NNTP cross-post path between 
mailman and news until I think I've got a solid plane.

Anyway, any thoughts or experiences in this space appreciated.

Thanks



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 17:59:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 08:59:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to import a list of members?
In-Reply-To: <4838CF76.1040905@aol.com>
References: <4838CF76.1040905@aol.com>
Message-ID: <48456A45.5090109@msapiro.net>

Todd Andrews wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for an easy way to update the real names ONLY for members 
> already on the list.
> 
> I've studied
> 
>     FAQ "3.53. Additional web administration tools?"
>     (http://tinyurl.com/4r553c)
> 
> and
> 
>     Michael Lynne's curl wrapper
>     (http://tinyurl.com/5gug8d)
> 
> but I can't find a place where the CGI's are documented to know how I 
> could write a curl wrapper to do what I want.


View the source of the appropriate page in your browser to see what post
data is sent by the form when you submit it.


> I don't have direct access to the command line tools or binaries because 
> I'm using mailman provided by a hosting service.
> 
> Can anyone point me in the right direction?


A URL similar to

http://www.example.com/mailman/options/listname/user--at--example.net?fullname=New%20Name&change-of-address&password=list_admin_or_user_password

will do what you want

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 18:13:37 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 09:13:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] selective mime 'scrubbing' (WITHOUT filtering)
In-Reply-To: <4839845F.5040406@otenet.gr>
References: <4839845F.5040406@otenet.gr>
Message-ID: <48456DB1.7060101@msapiro.net>

andReadG wrote:
> 
> my initial question was:
> 
> "custom mime precedence?"
> 
> I was asking if I can let the text/html part of a
> multipart(/alternative) message pass through when
> when preceded by the text/plain part AND
> followed by something like an application/pdf
> part, but keep the pdf in the server
> (not filtered-out; kept in the archive for
> http download)
> 
> The (1st) answer I got seems I was misunderstood
> (but thanks anyway Terri). I was advised to
> see the 'pass_mime_types' variable (to include
> text/html)
> 
> -BUT-
> 
> I have the 'scrub_nondigest' set to true, so
> (simple) filtering is of no help (nor desired;
> I don't want the pdf (or any base64 part) phased
> out, I just want it stay in the archive area
> with a link leading to it in the delivered
> mail)
> 
> My first impression is that this cannot be
> done, at least with the 2.1.6 version I use.
> Is this true? Can this be solved If I upgrade
> the version?


And your impression is correct. An upgrade won't help. Scrubber will
remove all text/html parts. The closest you can come is to set

ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 2

in mm_cfg.py. This will leave the content of text/html part in the
message, but it will be 'html escaped' and appended to the text/plain
body, so it won't really even be close to what you want.

The whole point of scrubber is to produce a flat text/plain message
because that's the only thing that pipermail can archive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mailman at evilbrain.com  Tue Jun  3 18:47:57 2008
From: mailman at evilbrain.com (Mark Hennessy)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:47:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble setting up Mailman 2.1.9 Web Interface
	(FreeBSD 7.0 Ports)
Message-ID: <20080603124757.0dwcvdcqowoo4oso@www.messageme.org>

I'm trying to get Mailman 2.1.9 working.  I set it up with Postfix and  
as far as I can tell, e-mail and aliases are working and I'm able to  
create lists using the command-line scripts in mailman/bin, but  
whenever I try to control things through the Mailman web interface it  
seems to be ignored.  I looked in the log files that live in  
/usr/local/mailman/logs and in the web server logs and mail server  
logs and find nothing of consequence to explain this issue.  I am able  
to go to the configuration web pages, log in with the passwords that I  
set at the command line, change form fields and submit the form.  When  
I submit the form, I get prompted twice via what appaer to be  
javascript popups regarding the data submission being non-secure (even  
though this is an https URL) and then get returned to the form page.

What FAQ or Wiki may touch upon these issues?  I haven't found  
anything googling around.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


From brad at python.org  Tue Jun  3 19:20:04 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:20:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail distro, newsgroup, or both?
In-Reply-To: <48456105.8080206@comcast.net>
References: <48456105.8080206@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <48457D44.9010207@python.org>

bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote:

> I'd like the mail distro to be "open" meaning one shouldn't have to 
> subscribe to send to the distro.

That guarantees that the spammers will hit it heavily, once they find out 
about it.

>                                   I'm thinking the mail distro would 
> have no receipients other than the archive.  It's sort of like a 
> newsgroup but where info could be added to the "newgroup" (archive) via 
> e-mail.

If you're only going to use it for archiving purposes, it sounds to me more 
like you want a newsgroup than a mailing list.

> Is there an easy way to index and search over one or more mailman distros?

Mailman distros?  There is no such thing.

Do you mean Mailman mailing lists?  The interface is exposed to third-party 
archivers, such as mhonarc, and there are other third-party index/search 
tools that also can be relatively easily integrated.  Search the FAQ Wizard 
for more info on that subject.

> I'm not sure how to address "followups".  In a newsgroup paradigm, 
> replying to a post brings that thread to the top of the newsgroups.  I 
> don't think that's the cases with mailman and threads (though I could be 
> wrong).

If you're doing an archive-only mailing list, there would be no such thing 
as followups, or message threading, since no one would be receiving a copy 
of the messages by mail and they wouldn't have access to any of the headers 
that are used to build threads, etc....

The best you could do would be to have people manually copy relevant 
portions of a message from the archives into a new message and then post 
that to the same list, and hope that they also remember to keep the same 
subject.


You're basically destroying much of the value of the archives of a proper 
mailing list, because you've got an input to the process but no normal outputs.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From rak at fcien.edu.uy  Tue Jun  3 19:26:14 2008
From: rak at fcien.edu.uy (Carlos Bergero)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:26:14 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error after server crash
Message-ID: <48457EB6.1020806@fcien.edu.uy>

Hi there, a few weeks ago my mail server crashed and serveral files
where damage, and placed in lost+found. For some reason the mailman
system failed after that while starting the service i got the following
error.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/sbin/list_lists", line 122, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/sbin/list_lists", line 94, in main
    mlist = MailList.MailList(n, lock=0)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 665, in Load
    self.CheckVersion(dict)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 704, in CheckVersion
    if self.data_version >= mm_cfg.DATA_FILE_VERSION:
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: data_version

After checking back and forth I found that removing the list_lists from
the /etc/init.d/mailman let the service start but one or more lists are
not working, and of course the error persist, I cant also access the web
page of the list. Can you give me some advice on what can be wrong. So
far I cant make out which file is missing or has something wrong.

Something similar happends when I run check_db (broken_list) only the
lines refering to list_lists change and are replace by check_db instead.
Is there a way to recover from this or to reset the list without erasing it?

Thx,
       Carlos Bergero



From jesus at evangelizacion.org.mx  Tue Jun  3 19:46:51 2008
From: jesus at evangelizacion.org.mx (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_Rivas?=)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:46:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stats
Message-ID: <4845838B.4040605@evangelizacion.org.mx>

Hi, i'm performing some tests with Mailman and Postfix over Centos5.
Does some body know how many messages per hour can be sent?
I?ll appreciate if some one could tell me  what  hardware and bandwith 
are using and your stats?
What do I need to improve it?

Thanks in advance.

Jesus Alonso Rivas


From lac at openend.se  Tue Jun  3 20:02:43 2008
From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:02:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail distro, newsgroup, or both?
In-Reply-To: Message from Brad Knowles <brad@python.org> 
	of "Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:20:04 CDT." <48457D44.9010207@python.org> 
References: <48456105.8080206@comcast.net> <48457D44.9010207@python.org> 
Message-ID: <200806031802.m53I2hUR006108@theraft.openend.se>

In a message of Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:20:04 CDT, Brad Knowles writes:
>Do you mean Mailman mailing lists?  The interface is exposed to third-par
>ty 
>archivers, such as mhonarc, and there are other third-party index/search 
>tools that also can be relatively easily integrated.  Search the FAQ Wiza
>rd 
>for more info on that subject.

see: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=SWISH-E&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search

I am using SWISH-E and it works just fine.

I used this resource which the FAQ didn't list
http://infothecary.org/jordan/mailman.html

just in case its useful,
Laura

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 20:37:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 11:37:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble setting up Mailman 2.1.9 Web
	Interface(FreeBSD 7.0 Ports)
In-Reply-To: <20080603124757.0dwcvdcqowoo4oso@www.messageme.org>
Message-ID: <PC183020080603113724079616fcf334@msapiro>

Mark Hennessy wrote:

>I looked in the log files that live in  
>/usr/local/mailman/logs and in the web server logs and mail server  
>logs and find nothing of consequence to explain this issue.


Does the web server log show the POST request from submitting the form?


>I am able  
>to go to the configuration web pages, log in with the passwords that I  
>set at the command line, change form fields and submit the form.  When  
>I submit the form, I get prompted twice via what appaer to be  
>javascript popups regarding the data submission being non-secure (even  
>though this is an https URL) and then get returned to the form page.


Mailman doesn't have any javascript or anything else to generate
popups. These are most likely coming from your browser itself because
you haven't fixed the list's web_page_url to be https, so the form's
post action URL is still http.


>What FAQ or Wiki may touch upon these issues?  I haven't found  
>anything googling around.


See steps 2. and 3. at
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Securing+Mailman%27s+web+GUI+by+using+Secure+HTTP-SSL>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 21:02:27 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 12:02:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error after server crash
In-Reply-To: <48457EB6.1020806@fcien.edu.uy>
Message-ID: <PC18302008060312022702500fe7a315@msapiro>

Carlos Bergero wrote:

>Hi there, a few weeks ago my mail server crashed and serveral files
>where damage, and placed in lost+found. For some reason the mailman
>system failed after that while starting the service i got the following
>error.
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/sbin/list_lists", line 122, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/sbin/list_lists", line 94, in main
>    mlist = MailList.MailList(n, lock=0)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
>    self.Load()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 665, in Load
>    self.CheckVersion(dict)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 704, in CheckVersion
>    if self.data_version >= mm_cfg.DATA_FILE_VERSION:
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__
>    raise AttributeError, name
>AttributeError: data_version
>
>After checking back and forth I found that removing the list_lists from
>the /etc/init.d/mailman let the service start but one or more lists are
>not working, and of course the error persist, I cant also access the web
>page of the list. Can you give me some advice on what can be wrong. So
>far I cant make out which file is missing or has something wrong.


The above traceback indicates a corrupt lists/<listname>/config.pck for
some <listname>. This corruption probably occurred in the crash.

Yoy could try removing the lists/<listname>/config.pck so that Mailman
will fall back to lists/<listname>/config.pck.last. If that doesn't
work, you will need to restore the config.pck from a backup.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 21:21:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:21:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting respond_to_post_requests and
 header	filters in mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <eea901cd0805272342n4e14c00ak3adc499252f3797f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eea901cd0805272342n4e14c00ak3adc499252f3797f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <484599BF.6050206@msapiro.net>

Florian Effenberger wrote:
> 
>> I think the settings in mm_cfg.py only affect the defaults that are set when
>> new lists are created.  In particular, they have no affect on any
>> pre-existing lists.
>>
>> You'd need to go through a separate process to change those same settings on
>> each list, presumably some semi-automated method using "with_list".
> 
> sorry for the confusion - that's not the issue. The issue is that
> there seem to be no options in mm_cfg.py that reflect these settings.
> I can set all other things, but not these two...


There is no configuration setting for the default for 
respond_to_post_requests. It is hard coded to Yes in the 
MailList.InitVars() method in the Mailman/MailList.py module. Likewise, 
header_filter_rules is set to empty.

You can set DEFAULT_BOUNCE_MATCHING_HEADERS to catch X-Spam-Flags: YES, 
but this doesn't have an 'action' option; it only holds.

Note that while you can put things in mm_cfg.py that are not defined in 
Defaults.py, they will never have any effect since if Mailman actually 
looked for some arbitrary setting that wasn't defined in Defaults.py, 
Mailman would crash in a default installation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Tue Jun  3 21:25:29 2008
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:25:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble setting up Mailman 2.1.9 Web Interface
	(FreeBSD 7.0 Ports)
In-Reply-To: <20080603124757.0dwcvdcqowoo4oso@www.messageme.org>
References: <20080603124757.0dwcvdcqowoo4oso@www.messageme.org>
Message-ID: <7AD5DE81-1110-47C9-AC20-5763684E4C0A@goldmark.org>

[mailed and posted]

On Jun 3, 2008, at 11:47 AM, Mark Hennessy wrote:

> I'm trying to get Mailman 2.1.9 working.

I'm running mailman on FreeBSD 7-RELENG installed through ports, also  
with postscript.

>  I set it up with Postfix and as far as I can tell, e-mail and  
> aliases are working and I'm able to create lists using the command- 
> line scripts in mailman/bin, but whenever I try to control things  
> through the Mailman web interface it seems to be ignored.

The ports install process does not configure your apache configuration  
file.  You still need to do that by hand.

Did you follow the instructions in

  /usr/local/share/doc/mailman/FreeBSD-post-install-notes  ?

> I looked in the log files that live in /usr/local/mailman/logs and  
> in the web server logs and mail server logs and find nothing of  
> consequence to explain this issue.  I am able to go to the  
> configuration web pages, log in with the passwords that I set at the  
> command line, change form fields and submit the form.  When I submit  
> the form, I get prompted twice via what appaer to be javascript  
> popups regarding the data submission being non-secure (even though  
> this is an https URL) and then get returned to the form page.

As already pointed out.  Mailman pages don't use JavaScript.  Are you  
certain that you are really seeing the mailman pages?  Or maybe this  
is coming from the browser?  What browser are you using?

-j


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 21:27:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:27:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relative to Relaying deny
In-Reply-To: <775611.7035.qm@web62301.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <775611.7035.qm@web62301.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <48459B3B.1090206@msapiro.net>

JCSL wrote:
> 
> I have a big problem with a list, I have installed in my server as
> MTA Postfix, an antivirus Vexira and mailman to have the posibility
> to get a service's list. I have 4 lists created, 3 of them contain
> only email's directions with my domain i mean is only for internal
> use, that's works perfect. But theres one that contain external
> domains and when i try to send a message to all the members
> (hotmail's, yahoo's, etc), the message never is delivered, checking
> the logs i found that error in the smtp-failure's log in mailman:
> 
> May 27 18:29:15 2008 (7555) delivery to <a member's direction> failed
> with code 558: Relaying denied:  domain not valid.
> 
> I could send emails from my MTA to this domains, so i think that the
> configuration of my postfix is correct but....... when mailman try to
> send messages dosen't work.


This is in your Postfix configuration somehow. Postfix does not 
recognize the connect from Mailman as being from a local source 
(something in 'mynetworks')

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 21:39:27 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:39:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription errors
In-Reply-To: <4156a9150805281542g1f283b72od881f38e99c14a43@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4156a9150805281542g1f283b72od881f38e99c14a43@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48459DEF.6090505@msapiro.net>

Duncan Drury wrote:
> 
> This seems to be related to the known bug in 2.1.10 and I have tried
> installing the patch that has been discussed in many places - but I am still
> getting the same problem.  In log/error I am seeing the following:
> 
> May 28 23:36:05 2008 (31672) Uncaught runner exception: 'NoneType' object
> has no attribute 'lower'
> May 28 23:36:05 2008 (31672) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 241, in
> _dispose
>     res.do_command('join')
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 139, in
> do_command
>     return handler.process(self, args)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py", line 74, in
> process
>     if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'):
> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower'


You haven't installed the patch correctly, or you patched something 
other than /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py.

The properly installed patch changes line 74 of 
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py from

     if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'):

to

     if (digest is None
             and password and password.lower() in ('digest', nodigest')):

but if you are changing it manually, you could just change

     if digest is None and password.lower() ...

to

     if digest is None and password and password.lower() ...

i.e. just insert ' and password' following 'None'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 22:01:06 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 13:01:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Triggers for when lists are changed?
In-Reply-To: <26face530805311118m3dbc751bp3df69df1808acbe8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <26face530805311118m3dbc751bp3df69df1808acbe8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4845A302.6060401@msapiro.net>

Kelly Jones wrote:
> 
> In other words, I'd like Mailman 'triggers'. Examples:
> 
> "whenever list foo's membership changes, run foo-member-change.pl"
> 
> "whenever list bar's config changes, run bar-config-change.pl"
> 
> "whenver anything changes on any list, run list-cleanup.pl"
> 
> Can Mailman do that? If not, I'd like to request it as a feature.


No, Mailman currently has no hooks for this.


> I realize I can have a daemon watch the config.pck timestamps, but
> that seems ugly.


Also, since the config.pck timestamp changes with every post, it's 
probably excessive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  3 22:07:46 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 13:07:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?
In-Reply-To: <BLU108-W45E414F3E5098187E19401A3BE0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU108-W45E414F3E5098187E19401A3BE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4845A492.30202@msapiro.net>

Dov Oxenberg wrote:
> 
> Good morning, Until Wednesday night my Server was running like a
> champ then suddenly, mysteriously, Postfix broke for no apparent
> reason. It is failing to start reporting "no local interface found
> for..." and citing some IP address which is invalid for my system.


Check 'inet_interfaces' in Postfix's main.cf. Either there is a spurious
entry or DNS is returning a spurious IP for some entry.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From boxenberg at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  3 22:22:27 2008
From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 16:22:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?
In-Reply-To: <4845A492.30202@msapiro.net>
References: <BLU108-W45E414F3E5098187E19401A3BE0@phx.gbl>
	<4845A492.30202@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <BLU108-W40493B3C281E999019CDEEA3BA0@phx.gbl>

Hi Mark!
Thanks so much for the reply.
Actually I was able to get this fixed last week thanks to some users on the Postfix list.
All that time I had the value of inet_interfaces set to "ALL" (upper case) in main.cf.  The day Postfix "broke" the Domain ALL.com got a "valid" IP on the Internet (Postfix began resolving ALL.com to whatever that IP address is/was).  Changing the value "ALL" to lower case resolved the issue, although I was told I could just comment out the parameter entirely.
Thanks for the follow-up, I appreciate it.
Cheers,
Dov



> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 13:07:46 -0700> From: mark at msapiro.net> To: mailman-users at python.org> CC: boxenberg at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?> > Dov Oxenberg wrote:> > > > Good morning, Until Wednesday night my Server was running like a> > champ then suddenly, mysteriously, Postfix broke for no apparent> > reason. It is failing to start reporting "no local interface found> > for..." and citing some IP address which is invalid for my system.> > > Check 'inet_interfaces' in Postfix's main.cf. Either there is a spurious> entry or DNS is returning a spurious IP for some entry.> > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan> 

From rak at fcien.edu.uy  Tue Jun  3 23:38:15 2008
From: rak at fcien.edu.uy (Carlos Bergero)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 18:38:15 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error after server crash
In-Reply-To: <PC18302008060312022702500fe7a315@msapiro>
References: <PC18302008060312022702500fe7a315@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4845B9C7.1050309@fcien.edu.uy>

Thx for the tip Mark, I remove the file but and the error stop, but the 
list disapear from the list_lists, I try with some cofnig.pck.last file 
that was in a backup dir but those files where corrupt also.
Is there any way to edit this file and fix it or recover it in some way?

Sincerely 
              Carlos

Mark Sapiro escribi?:
> Carlos Bergero wrote:
>
>   
>> Hi there, a few weeks ago my mail server crashed and serveral files
>> where damage, and placed in lost+found. For some reason the mailman
>> system failed after that while starting the service i got the following
>> error.
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/usr/sbin/list_lists", line 122, in ?
>>    main()
>>  File "/usr/sbin/list_lists", line 94, in main
>>    mlist = MailList.MailList(n, lock=0)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
>>    self.Load()
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 665, in Load
>>    self.CheckVersion(dict)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 704, in CheckVersion
>>    if self.data_version >= mm_cfg.DATA_FILE_VERSION:
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__
>>    raise AttributeError, name
>> AttributeError: data_version
>>
>> After checking back and forth I found that removing the list_lists from
>> the /etc/init.d/mailman let the service start but one or more lists are
>> not working, and of course the error persist, I cant also access the web
>> page of the list. Can you give me some advice on what can be wrong. So
>> far I cant make out which file is missing or has something wrong.
>>     
>
>
> The above traceback indicates a corrupt lists/<listname>/config.pck for
> some <listname>. This corruption probably occurred in the crash.
>
> Yoy could try removing the lists/<listname>/config.pck so that Mailman
> will fall back to lists/<listname>/config.pck.last. If that doesn't
> work, you will need to restore the config.pck from a backup.
>
>   
   

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  4 00:38:36 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 15:38:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list with no archive
In-Reply-To: <200805292111.m4TLB2iD010752@theraft.openend.se>
References: <200805292111.m4TLB2iD010752@theraft.openend.se>
Message-ID: <4845C7EC.6040208@msapiro.net>

Laura Creighton wrote:
> 
> A mailing list that I am subscribed to, for reasons of privacy, has decided
> to not archive its messages.  I think this is an extremely silly idea, but
> right now out of my control.  My problem is that periodically I think I
> remember something useful having been posted there, and want to search the
> non-existant archives -- because I forget they do not exist.
> 
> The first erroneous piece of information I get is 'this archive is only
> searchable by list members'.  So I try to log in to read the list, and
> despite typing my correct password, things fail with 'Authorization
> Failed' rather than letting me discover that there were no archives to
> be found.  So you assume you haven't reset your password for this mailing
> list to one of the several you are in the habit of using, and ask for
> a password reminder -- to find out that all of this has been a complete
> waste of time because your problem is that there is no archive, not
> that you mistyped your password.
> 
> So -- is this just a bug -- should I report it -- or is this list
> misconfigured?  I can ask the list maintainer to change things if there
> is a way we can avoid this.


I can't duplicate this problem. What Mailman version hosts this list? 
Are you sure you are logging in with the exact email address that is 
subscribed to the list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mwelch at redwoodalliance.org  Wed Jun  4 01:10:30 2008
From: mwelch at redwoodalliance.org (Michael Welch)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:10:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists
 and harvesters
In-Reply-To: <4844C14D.9000502@msapiro.net>
References: <20080524021647.220D5181075@friskymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com>
	<4844C14D.9000502@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20080603232334.54FBB5F627@friskymail-a1.g.dreamhost.com>



Mark Sapiro wrote at 08:58 PM 6/2/2008:
 
>| I think the Topica listserver had a great way to deal with email
>| addresses in archives. You could see a semblance of the email address,
>| but no way could you deduce the real address. If you are logged into
>| the site, each is still obscured, but is a live link that opens up an
>| email-like dialog box -- with the real address still obscured. But it
>| does send an email to the real address for the obscured address.
>
>Try clicking the 'forward' button when viewing a message in a Topica
>archive. It reveals all.

Right, there's lots broken at Topica. But I sure do like the intent of their obscuration technique. 

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Michael Welch, volunteer
Redwood Alliance
PO Box 293
Arcata, CA 95518
707-822-7884
mwelch at redwoodalliance.org
www.redwoodalliance.org


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  4 02:35:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 17:35:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error after server crash
In-Reply-To: <4845B9C7.1050309@fcien.edu.uy>
Message-ID: <PC18302008060317353206403453ec60@msapiro>

Carlos Bergero wrote:

>Thx for the tip Mark, I remove the file but and the error stop, but the 
>list disapear from the list_lists,


If you removed only config.pck and not config.pck.last, you should
either get the error again or the list should be there.


>I try with some cofnig.pck.last file 
>that was in a backup dir but those files where corrupt also.
>Is there any way to edit this file and fix it or recover it in some way?


If you don't have a good backup of the config.pck or config.pck.last,
you could try running bin/dumpdb on the files you have. This may
produce some information that you can use, or you can run strings on
the files to try to extract the email addresses of the list members.

You will have to extract what info you can from the files and then
recreate the list and use what you have to add members, etc.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lac at openend.se  Wed Jun  4 04:32:51 2008
From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 04:32:51 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list with no archive
In-Reply-To: Message from Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> 
	of "Tue, 03 Jun 2008 15:38:36 PDT." <4845C7EC.6040208@msapiro.net> 
References: <200805292111.m4TLB2iD010752@theraft.openend.se>
	<4845C7EC.6040208@msapiro.net> 
Message-ID: <200806040232.m542Wptu020818@theraft.openend.se>

In a message of Tue, 03 Jun 2008 15:38:36 PDT, Mark Sapiro writes:
>Laura Creighton wrote:
>> 
>> A mailing list that I am subscribed to, for reasons of privacy, has dec
>ided
>> to not archive its messages.  I think this is an extremely silly idea, 
>but
>> right now out of my control.  My problem is that periodically I think I
>> remember something useful having been posted there, and want to search 
>the
>> non-existant archives -- because I forget they do not exist.
>> 
>> The first erroneous piece of information I get is 'this archive is only
>> searchable by list members'.  So I try to log in to read the list, and
>> despite typing my correct password, things fail with 'Authorization
>> Failed' rather than letting me discover that there were no archives to
>> be found.  So you assume you haven't reset your password for this maili
>ng
>> list to one of the several you are in the habit of using, and ask for
>> a password reminder -- to find out that all of this has been a complete
>> waste of time because your problem is that there is no archive, not
>> that you mistyped your password.
>> 
>> So -- is this just a bug -- should I report it -- or is this list
>> misconfigured?  I can ask the list maintainer to change things if there
>> is a way we can avoid this.
>
>
>I can't duplicate this problem. What Mailman version hosts this list? 
>Are you sure you are logging in with the exact email address that is 
>subscribed to the list?

Mailman version 2.1.9, and yes the email address is the same.

Laura
>
>-- 
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ray at unipay.nl  Wed Jun  4 05:10:38 2008
From: ray at unipay.nl (R. Hirschfeld)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 05:10:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default language per virtual host
Message-ID: <200806040310.m543AcAO001821@home.unipay.nl>

Is it possible to configure the language used for the listinfo and
admin overviews on a per-virtual-host basis?  Or failing that, to let
the user select a language in which to view these overview pages, as
can be done for the listinfo and admin pages of a specific list?  In
my case the overviews should be in English for some virtual hosts and
Dutch for others.

Funnily enough, before a recent "unintentional upgrade" to version
2.1.9 of Mailman (a disk crash after which the sysadmin installed a
new version of the OS) this seemed to Just Work, with the language of
the overview matching the preferred language of the virtual host's
lists.  But from a cursory look at Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py and
admin.py I don't see how that could be, so I may be misremembering.
Now the overviews are all in English (the DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE).

Thanks for any help,
Ray Hirschfeld


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  4 05:48:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 20:48:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default language per virtual host
In-Reply-To: <200806040310.m543AcAO001821@home.unipay.nl>
Message-ID: <PC18302008060320485202345a7dd55e@msapiro>

R. Hirschfeld wrote:

>Is it possible to configure the language used for the listinfo and
>admin overviews on a per-virtual-host basis?  Or failing that, to let
>the user select a language in which to view these overview pages, as
>can be done for the listinfo and admin pages of a specific list?  In
>my case the overviews should be in English for some virtual hosts and
>Dutch for others.


Currently, there's no way to configure this. The overview pages are
presented in the DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE. There is no setting for a
default language for a domain.


>Funnily enough, before a recent "unintentional upgrade" to version
>2.1.9 of Mailman (a disk crash after which the sysadmin installed a
>new version of the OS) this seemed to Just Work, with the language of
>the overview matching the preferred language of the virtual host's
>lists.  But from a cursory look at Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py and
>admin.py I don't see how that could be, so I may be misremembering.
>Now the overviews are all in English (the DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE).


Perhaps you are thinking of password reminders which are sent in the
language determined by

# If the person is on more than one list, it is possible that they
# have different preferred languages, and there's no good way to
# know which one they want their password reminder in.  Pick the
# most popular, and break the tie randomly.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob001 at gmail.com  Wed Jun  4 08:25:32 2008
From: bob001 at gmail.com (bob 001)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:25:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.10 .. yahoo says "domainkeys=fail (bad
	sig)" ...
Message-ID: <29be4f4d0806032325q2b3190ctc641d211610c6575@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Experts,

looking for help.

After upgrading to mailman 2.1.10, we were hoping for resolving the issue of
stripped keys.

Although keys are not longer stripped, yahoo says  domainkeys=fail (bad sig)
and gmail says "dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify)"

Please note that, one to one email works fine and yahoo and gmail both
confirms that signature are ok and valid. It is *only* mailman list email
that gets invalidated :-(

Any suggestions, how can this be resolved? How can we make sure that keys
are considered legitimate when email is sent to list?

We are using dkimproxy...with both signatures .. and works great on
individual emails.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

- Regards,
Bob.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Jun  4 09:57:02 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:57:02 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists
 and harvesters
In-Reply-To: <20080603232334.54FBB5F627@friskymail-a1.g.dreamhost.com>
References: <20080524021647.220D5181075@friskymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com>
	<4844C14D.9000502@msapiro.net>
	<20080603232334.54FBB5F627@friskymail-a1.g.dreamhost.com>
Message-ID: <871w3d3a5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Michael Welch writes:

 > Right, there's lots broken at Topica. But I sure do like the intent
 > of their obscuration technique.

I don't.  What they're obscuring is that it doesn't work.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  4 15:56:11 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 06:56:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.10 patch release, was: Subscription errors
In-Reply-To: <4156a9150806040444sf6d485ub294151474d2c786@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC183020080604065611071889e03559@msapiro>

Duncan Drury wrote:
>
>Any chance of releasing a patched version of mailman as promised a while
>back?  Not everyone using Mailman will be up to patching or manually editing
>the code, and like a I said - for me at least this bug was a showstopper -
>and a nasty one because it was pretty silent.  Had I not been setting up a
>new list, I may not have realised there was a problem for many months during
>which no new subscriptions would have been happening on my lists.


The issue of a 2.1.10 patch release has become a bit complicated. There
are a few other minor changes, and a new cron I have implemented to
cull old entries from the bad and shunt queues. This goes a bit beyond
a patch release.

I have just returned from a vacation and am still trying to catch up,
but my plan is to release what may be thought of as a 2.1.10 patch
release, but to call it 2.1.11. This should happen before the end of
this month.

Regarding 'silent' problems - consider running Brad Knowles' daily
status report (mmdsr). You will find this in the contrib directory in
the unpacked tarball. It will report errors like this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  4 16:12:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 07:12:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.10 .. yahoo says "domainkeys=fail
	(badsig)" ...
In-Reply-To: <29be4f4d0806032325q2b3190ctc641d211610c6575@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC183020080604071258003189e032d9@msapiro>

bob 001 wrote:
>
>After upgrading to mailman 2.1.10, we were hoping for resolving the issue of
>stripped keys.
>
>Although keys are not longer stripped, yahoo says  domainkeys=fail (bad sig)
>and gmail says "dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify)"
>
>Please note that, one to one email works fine and yahoo and gmail both
>confirms that signature are ok and valid. It is *only* mailman list email
>that gets invalidated :-(
>
>Any suggestions, how can this be resolved? How can we make sure that keys
>are considered legitimate when email is sent to list?
>
>We are using dkimproxy...with both signatures .. and works great on
>individual emails.


There are a couple of long threads on this at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2007-February/thread.html>.


The current situation in Mailman is sumarized in the following from
Defaults.py

># Some list posts and mail to the -owner address may contain DomainKey or
># DomainKeys Identified Mail (DKIM) signature headers <http://www.dkim.org/>.
># Various list transformations to the message such as adding a list header or
># footer or scrubbing attachments or even reply-to munging can break these
># signatures.  It is generally felt that these signatures have value, even if
># broken and even if the outgoing message is resigned.  However, some sites
># may wish to remove these headers by setting this to Yes.
>REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = No


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  4 16:26:26 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 07:26:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.10 patch release, was: Subscription errors
In-Reply-To: <PC183020080604065611071889e03559@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC183020080604072626004689e032c8@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Duncan Drury wrote:
>>
>>Any chance of releasing a patched version of mailman as promised a while
>>back?  Not everyone using Mailman will be up to patching or manually editing
>>the code, and like a I said - for me at least this bug was a showstopper -
>>and a nasty one because it was pretty silent.


You indicated in your OP that you are using a FreeBSD port of Mailman.

Mailman 2.1.10 was officially released on April 21. A patch which fixes
this issue was announced and made available for download from the
official download sites on April 26.

In your case, it is up to whoever maintains the FreeBSD port to
incorporate that patch and make a new release.

I recognize that I created confusion by indicating that I would make a
patch release and then not doing it, but hopefully this will be
resolved soon with the 2.1.11 release I mentioned in my prior reply.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jon.slater at mesanetworks.net  Wed Jun  4 16:30:09 2008
From: jon.slater at mesanetworks.net (Jon Slater)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:30:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts and re-using list names
Message-ID: <004001c8c64f$7efc7750$7cf565f0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>

Hi,

 

Is there a way to re-use list names for multiple virtual hosts without
running multiple instances of MM?

 

For example:  members at mylist.com   and   members at yourlist.com  on the same
server?

 

So far, the only solution I've found it to be cleaver with my list names
(like  members at mylist.com  and  everyone at yourlist.com.

 

Thanks!


From adamsca at gmail.com  Wed Jun  4 17:31:21 2008
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:31:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with subscription confirmation string
Message-ID: <27572d930806040831u6895ee19ndf3e543cb30c479e@mail.gmail.com>

I have previously had problems with this and since moving to a new server,
it doesn't seem to work quite right.

I use Postfix. In my Postfix main.cf, I have a line:

recipient_delimiter = +

In mm_cfg.py, I have this line:

VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes


If I send a message to test7-request and add the word 'subscribe', I get a
message back like this:

From: test7-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us; on behalf of;
test7-confirm+38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us<test7-confirm%2B38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us>

To: Adams Chris A

Subject: Your confirmation is required to join the Test7 mailing list


If I reply to the message to confirm, I get this:

From: test7-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us

The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
original message.

- Results:
    Invalid confirmation string.  Note that confirmation strings expire
approximately 3 days after the initial subscription request.  If your
confirmation has expired, please try to re-submit your original request or
message.





-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From bob001 at gmail.com  Wed Jun  4 17:43:45 2008
From: bob001 at gmail.com (Bob001)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:43:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.10 .. yahoo says "domainkeys=fail
 (badsig)" ...
In-Reply-To: <PC183020080604071258003189e032d9@msapiro>
References: <29be4f4d0806032325q2b3190ctc641d211610c6575@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC183020080604071258003189e032d9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <17649832.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hello Mark,
Thanks so much for the response and getting involved.

Actually, we need keys so that yahoo doesn't consider emails as spam. That
was the main purpose of upgrading to 2.1.10 version of mailman.

Any kind of customization possible? Any insight would be of a great help.

- Regards,
Bob.


Mark Sapiro-3 wrote:
> 
> bob 001 wrote:
>>
>>After upgrading to mailman 2.1.10, we were hoping for resolving the issue
of
>>stripped keys.
>>
>>Although keys are not longer stripped, yahoo says  domainkeys=fail (bad
sig)
>>and gmail says "dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify)"
>>
>>Please note that, one to one email works fine and yahoo and gmail both
>>confirms that signature are ok and valid. It is *only* mailman list email
>>that gets invalidated :-(
>>
>>Any suggestions, how can this be resolved? How can we make sure that keys
>>are considered legitimate when email is sent to list?
>>
>>We are using dkimproxy...with both signatures .. and works great on
>>individual emails.
> 
> 
> There are a couple of long threads on this at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2007-February/thread.html>.
> 
> 
> The current situation in Mailman is sumarized in the following from
> Defaults.py
> 
>># Some list posts and mail to the -owner address may contain DomainKey or
>># DomainKeys Identified Mail (DKIM) signature headers
<http://www.dkim.org/>.
>># Various list transformations to the message such as adding a list header
or
>># footer or scrubbing attachments or even reply-to munging can break these
>># signatures.  It is generally felt that these signatures have value, even
if
>># broken and even if the outgoing message is resigned.  However, some
sites
>># may wish to remove these headers by setting this to Yes.
>>REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = No
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40nabble.com
> 
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/mailman-2.1.10-..-yahoo-says-%22domainkeys%3Dfail-%28bad-sig%29%22-...-tp17640127p17649832.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  4 17:51:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:51:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts and re-using list names
In-Reply-To: <004001c8c64f$7efc7750$7cf565f0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
Message-ID: <PC1830200806040851240953457c6611@msapiro>

Jon Slater wrote:
>
>Is there a way to re-use list names for multiple virtual hosts without
>running multiple instances of MM?


Not in standard Mailman 2.1.x. This will be addressed in Mailman 3.

There are patches in the sourceforge tracker and cPanel's Mailman also
supports this in a way. See
<http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030604> for more.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From yahoo at jimpop.com  Wed Jun  4 17:57:33 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:57:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.10 .. yahoo says "domainkeys=fail
	(badsig)" ...
In-Reply-To: <17649832.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <29be4f4d0806032325q2b3190ctc641d211610c6575@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC183020080604071258003189e032d9@msapiro>
	<17649832.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <7ff145960806040857w54c16690j78b4cec09abe8a63@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Bob001 <bob001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Mark,
> Thanks so much for the response and getting involved.
>
> Actually, we need keys so that yahoo doesn't consider emails as spam. That
> was the main purpose of upgrading to 2.1.10 version of mailman.
>
> Any kind of customization possible? Any insight would be of a great help.

What Mark was saying is that you need to set REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS=Yes
(current release), or utilize CleanseDKIM.py, to purge incoming emails
of pre-existing DKIM headers.   Secondly, you then need to sign your
outgoing emails using your own DKIM keys.   You can NOT receive DKIM
signed emails, append Mailman headers, and reflect those emails on to
any host (Yahoo! or otherwise) that does DKIM checks.  Mailman's
header modifications invalidate pre-existing DKIM keys.

-Jim P.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  4 18:01:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 09:01:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with subscription confirmation string
In-Reply-To: <27572d930806040831u6895ee19ndf3e543cb30c479e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1830200806040901520296fb4318dc@msapiro>

Christopher Adams" <adamsca at gmail.com>
   Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:31:21 -0700
     To: mailman-users at python.org

>I have previously had problems with this and since moving to a new server,
>it doesn't seem to work quite right.
>
>I use Postfix. In my Postfix main.cf, I have a line:
>
>recipient_delimiter = +
>
>In mm_cfg.py, I have this line:
>
>VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
>
>
>If I send a message to test7-request and add the word 'subscribe', I get a
>message back like this:
>
>From: test7-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us; on behalf of;
>test7-confirm+38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us<test7-confirm%2B38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us>
>


This is almost certainly a Microsoft Outlook issue.

What exact address does Outlook put in the To: header of the reply? It
should be

To:
test7-confirm+38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us

in this case.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob001 at gmail.com  Wed Jun  4 18:04:41 2008
From: bob001 at gmail.com (Bob001)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 09:04:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.10 .. yahoo says "domainkeys=fail
 (badsig)" ...
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960806040857w54c16690j78b4cec09abe8a63@mail.gmail.com>
References: <29be4f4d0806032325q2b3190ctc641d211610c6575@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC183020080604071258003189e032d9@msapiro>
	<17649832.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<7ff145960806040857w54c16690j78b4cec09abe8a63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17650296.post@talk.nabble.com>


ah...i see. Thanks Jim for clarification.

So, how you all are exactly achieving post-signing of messages after
REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS=Yes? 

Any suggestions?

We are on postfix and dkimproxy with mailman.

Do we have any documentation on what changes should be done on
postfix/dkimproxy side for post-signing?

- Regards,
Bob.



Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Bob001 <bob001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Mark,
>> Thanks so much for the response and getting involved.
>>
>> Actually, we need keys so that yahoo doesn't consider emails as spam.
>> That
>> was the main purpose of upgrading to 2.1.10 version of mailman.
>>
>> Any kind of customization possible? Any insight would be of a great help.
> 
> What Mark was saying is that you need to set REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS=Yes
> (current release), or utilize CleanseDKIM.py, to purge incoming emails
> of pre-existing DKIM headers.   Secondly, you then need to sign your
> outgoing emails using your own DKIM keys.   You can NOT receive DKIM
> signed emails, append Mailman headers, and reflect those emails on to
> any host (Yahoo! or otherwise) that does DKIM checks.  Mailman's
> header modifications invalidate pre-existing DKIM keys.
> 
> -Jim P.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40nabble.com
> 
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/mailman-2.1.10-..-yahoo-says-%22domainkeys%3Dfail-%28bad-sig%29%22-...-tp17640127p17650296.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jun  4 18:10:08 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 11:10:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts and re-using list names
In-Reply-To: <004001c8c64f$7efc7750$7cf565f0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
References: <004001c8c64f$7efc7750$7cf565f0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
Message-ID: <4846BE60.9080800@shub-internet.org>

Jon Slater wrote:

> Is there a way to re-use list names for multiple virtual hosts without
> running multiple instances of MM?

Not with the standard version of Mailman, no.  See FAQ 4.47 at 
<http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030604>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From yahoo at jimpop.com  Wed Jun  4 18:16:35 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:16:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.10 .. yahoo says "domainkeys=fail
	(badsig)" ...
In-Reply-To: <17650296.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <29be4f4d0806032325q2b3190ctc641d211610c6575@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC183020080604071258003189e032d9@msapiro>
	<17649832.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<7ff145960806040857w54c16690j78b4cec09abe8a63@mail.gmail.com>
	<17650296.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <7ff145960806040916l420ada7eh19902b67f8dc8@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 12:04 PM, Bob001 <bob001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So, how you all are exactly achieving post-signing of messages after
> REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS=Yes?

I no longer am.  :-) When I was, I was using Sendmail and dk-filter.
BUT, in the end I determined that it was (IMHO) a waste of resources
(CPU, my time, etc).   The spirit of DKIM is solid, however it's only
a small piece in a big pie.

You should have no problems delivering to Yahoo! if you follow their
guidelines specified here:
  http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/
Additionally you need to follow general guidelines for sending email,
including proper, ... but those are too many, and non-Mailman, to
discuss here.

NOTE: I send lots of email to Yahoo!, without delay, and without DKIM headers.

-Jim P.

From brad at python.org  Wed Jun  4 18:34:14 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 11:34:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.10 .. yahoo says "domainkeys=fail
 (badsig)" ...
In-Reply-To: <17650296.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <29be4f4d0806032325q2b3190ctc641d211610c6575@mail.gmail.com>	<PC183020080604071258003189e032d9@msapiro>	<17649832.post@talk.nabble.com>	<7ff145960806040857w54c16690j78b4cec09abe8a63@mail.gmail.com>
	<17650296.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <4846C406.7010107@python.org>

Bob001 wrote:

> So, how you all are exactly achieving post-signing of messages after
> REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS=Yes? 

That would be done in your MTA.  Mailman has no involvement with this process.

> Do we have any documentation on what changes should be done on
> postfix/dkimproxy side for post-signing?

Not within the Mailman project, no.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From adamsca at gmail.com  Wed Jun  4 18:36:15 2008
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 09:36:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with subscription confirmation string
In-Reply-To: <PC1830200806040901520296fb4318dc@msapiro>
References: <27572d930806040831u6895ee19ndf3e543cb30c479e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1830200806040901520296fb4318dc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <27572d930806040936v560af1daj7e020ab3b7634e69@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, that is the exact string that is in the To: header of the reply.

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Christopher Adams" <adamsca at gmail.com>
>    Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:31:21 -0700
>     To: mailman-users at python.org
>
> >I have previously had problems with this and since moving to a new server,
> >it doesn't seem to work quite right.
> >
> >I use Postfix. In my Postfix main.cf, I have a line:
> >
> >recipient_delimiter = +
> >
> >In mm_cfg.py, I have this line:
> >
> >VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
> >
> >
> >If I send a message to test7-request and add the word 'subscribe', I get a
> >message back like this:
> >
> >From: test7-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us; on behalf of;
> >
> test7-confirm+38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us<test7-confirm%2B38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us>
> <
> test7-confirm%2B38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us<test7-confirm%252B38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us>
> >
> >
>
>
> This is almost certainly a Microsoft Outlook issue.
>
> What exact address does Outlook put in the To: header of the reply? It
> should be
>
> To:
>
> test7-confirm+38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us<test7-confirm%2B38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us>
>
> in this case.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From ray at unipay.nl  Wed Jun  4 18:52:01 2008
From: ray at unipay.nl (R. Hirschfeld)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 18:52:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default language per virtual host
In-Reply-To: <PC18302008060320485202345a7dd55e@msapiro> (message from Mark
	Sapiro on Tue, 3 Jun 2008 20:48:52 -0700)
References: <PC18302008060320485202345a7dd55e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806041652.m54Gq1nO002734@home.unipay.nl>

> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 20:48:52 -0700
> From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

> Perhaps you are thinking of password reminders which are sent in the
> language determined by
> 
> # If the person is on more than one list, it is possible that they
> # have different preferred languages, and there's no good way to
> # know which one they want their password reminder in.  Pick the
> # most popular, and break the tie randomly.

Thanks, I guess that's probably what I was thinking of.  I still have
a fairly strong recollection of having seen a listinfo overview page
in Dutch even though the DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE is English, but this
doesn't seem possible so I must be mistaken.

On the other hand, I have observed other remarkable behavior.  For
example, when I moved some mailman lists from a server that used a
different prefix (/usr/local/mailman vs. /usr/lib/mailman) I neglected
to update the aliases accordingly but I didn't notice for nearly a
year because they worked anyway even though the directory didn't
exist.  It took me some head-scratching to puzzle that out--apparently
sendmail strips off the path and looks in the smrsh directory instead,
so it doesn't matter what directory is specified in the alias.

Ray

From mkabot at soarol.com  Wed Jun  4 19:35:24 2008
From: mkabot at soarol.com (Michael Kabot)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:35:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts and re-using list names
In-Reply-To: <4846BE60.9080800@shub-internet.org>
References: <004001c8c64f$7efc7750$7cf565f0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
	<4846BE60.9080800@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <011501c8c669$5f49d8c0$1ddd8a40$@com>

Jon,

As our resident Mailman experts have stated - this is not a standard feature
of the current versions.  I don't know the release date for Version 3, but
it was being talked about 2 years ago when I first started using Mailman....

I have gotten around this in the current 2.x versions by doing two things:

1. putting some filters in place to append the sitename to the mailman
listname at the time of list creation
2. adding mail aliases for the original listname at sitename that point to the
sitename-listname@ list addresses.  I am using Qmail so that is very easy to
do.

It is a crude fix but has been working well for me for over 2 years with
hundreds of domains and thousands of mailing lists.

There is a side effect that the From/Sender/Reply-To addresses of lists look
a little weird, but I have modified Mailman to fix that as well.

If you want to go down this path, feel free to contact me off list.

Mike Kabot
mkabot at soarol.com

| -----Original Message-----
| From: mailman-users-bounces+mkabot=soarol.com at python.org
| [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mkabot=soarol.com at python.org] On Behalf
| Of Brad Knowles
| Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 12:10 PM
| To: Jon Slater
| Cc: mailman-users at python.org
| Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts and re-using list names
| 
| Jon Slater wrote:
| 
| > Is there a way to re-use list names for multiple virtual hosts
| without
| > running multiple instances of MM?
| 
| Not with the standard version of Mailman, no.  See FAQ 4.47 at
| <http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030604>.
| 
| --
| Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
| LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
| ------------------------------------------------------
| Mailman-Users mailing list
| Mailman-Users at python.org
| http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
| Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
| Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
| users%40python.org/
| Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
| users/mkabot%40soarol.com
| 
| Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-
| mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From jon.slater at mesanetworks.net  Wed Jun  4 20:05:51 2008
From: jon.slater at mesanetworks.net (Jon Slater)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:05:51 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ETA for MM 3.0?
Message-ID: <004f01c8c66d$9fbd7e30$df387a90$@slater@mesanetworks.net>

Does anyone have a guess-timate for the MM 3.0 release?


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Jun  5 02:36:48 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 09:36:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  problem with subscription confirmation string
In-Reply-To: <27572d930806040831u6895ee19ndf3e543cb30c479e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27572d930806040831u6895ee19ndf3e543cb30c479e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <871w3c1zvj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Christopher Adams writes:

 > If I send a message to test7-request and add the word 'subscribe', I get a
 > message back like this:
 > 
 > From: test7-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us; on behalf of;
 > test7-confirm+38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us<test7-confirm%2B38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us>

It looks to me like the '+' in the address (the part bracketed by
'<>') has been URL-escaped.  (The part outside the '<>' is irrelevant
to the confirmation process, that's garbage added by Outlook.)  If it
gets sent back that way, you will lose.

"Friends don't let friends use Outlook."

Especially not if the friend has postmaster responsibilities.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Jun  5 02:44:23 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 09:44:23 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  ETA for MM 3.0?
In-Reply-To: <004f01c8c66d$9fbd7e30$df387a90$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
References: <004f01c8c66d$9fbd7e30$df387a90$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
Message-ID: <87zlq0zp5k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jon Slater writes:

 > Does anyone have a guess-timate for the MM 3.0 release?

Barry Warsaw is the person to ask directly, or on Mailman-Developers.

It's definitely not something you want to hold your breath for;
there's definitely plans for Mailman 2.2.

From cite at incertum.net  Thu Jun  5 03:54:20 2008
From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 03:54:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] server load..
In-Reply-To: <BLU130-W3A17B58D8C08216DF9293FBC80@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.18662.1210961533.12833.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU130-W3A17B58D8C08216DF9293FBC80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20080605015420.GD2481@mail.incertum.net>

This a follow-up to a quite old posting on this list. I just read
something on postfix-users and feel that it is relevant for this
question. The OP wanted to deal with a larger mail volume:

* Khalil Abbas <khillo100 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> hi mailman guys .. my question is, I have a 100,000+ subscribers
> mailing list, and hosting it with godaddy.com (Celeron 2000, 2 GBs
> RAM) .. but they only allow 100,000 emails per day for each
> dedicated server, so I have to buy a new server now, and it's a bit
> expensive..

On postfix-users, Wietse Venema and Victor Duchovni said about Postfix
scalability:

Victor Duchovni wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 04, 2008 at 02:29:35PM -0400, Wietse Venema wrote:
>> Without content filtering, a 5-year old single-CPU machine could
>> do this easily.  However, 1 million messages in a day of 50 kbyte
>> each means you need 10+Mbit/s of network bandwidth.
> 
> Postfix on modern hardware, and a cooperative I/O subsystem, can handle
> a million messages an hour. [...]

I hope that this will offer some insight into what modern MTAs are
capable off.


Cheers
Stefan
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9
Still amiss: ~/.signature.

From terri at zone12.com  Thu Jun  5 04:14:49 2008
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 22:14:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail distro, newsgroup, or both?
In-Reply-To: <200806031802.m53I2hUR006108@theraft.openend.se>
References: <48456105.8080206@comcast.net> <48457D44.9010207@python.org>
	<200806031802.m53I2hUR006108@theraft.openend.se>
Message-ID: <2B6F051C-A506-45BD-8A09-9F767A18AD1B@zone12.com>

On 3-Jun-08, at 2:02 PM, Laura Creighton wrote:
> In a message of Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:20:04 CDT, Brad Knowles writes:
>> Do you mean Mailman mailing lists?  The interface is exposed to  
>> third-party
>> archivers, such as mhonarc, and there are other third-party index/ 
>> search
>> tools that also can be relatively easily integrated.  Search the  
>> FAQ Wizard
>> for more info on that subject.
>
> see: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=SWISH- 
> E&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search
>
> I am using SWISH-E and it works just fine.
>
> I used this resource which the FAQ didn't list
> http://infothecary.org/jordan/mailman.html
>

We're trying to switch from using the FAQ Wizard to using the wiki  
now, so the new link for this page is:

http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/How+do+I+make+the+archives+searchable

And that does look like a useful resource, so i added a link to it.   
If anyone wants to better integrate it into that FAQ entry or copy  
some information over, feel free to edit the wiki page!

  Terri


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  5 04:53:54 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 19:53:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with subscription confirmation string
In-Reply-To: <27572d930806040936v560af1daj7e020ab3b7634e69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1830200806041953540781588c0403@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>Yes, that is the exact string that is in the To: header of the reply.
>
>On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>> Christopher Adams" <adamsca at gmail.com>
>>    Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:31:21 -0700
>>     To: mailman-users at python.org
>>
>> >I have previously had problems with this and since moving to a new server,
>> >it doesn't seem to work quite right.
>> >
>> >I use Postfix. In my Postfix main.cf, I have a line:
>> >
>> >recipient_delimiter = +
>> >
>> >In mm_cfg.py, I have this line:
>> >
>> >VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
>> >
>> >
>> >If I send a message to test7-request and add the word 'subscribe', I get a
>> >message back like this:
>> >
>> >From: test7-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us; on behalf of;
>> >
>> test7-confirm+38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us<test7-confirm%2B38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us>
>> <
>> test7-confirm%2B38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us<test7-confirm%252B38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93 at listsmart.osl.state.or.us>
>> >


It is unclear to me what you are seeing in these messages. Your MUA is
manipulating and adding stuff, so it is not clear what you saw in my
reply. The To: header in your confirmation reply should be

To:
test7-confirm+38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93-at-listsmart.osl.state.or.us

except where I wrote -at-, there should be an actual at-sign.

As Stephen indicates in another reply, if it actually looks like

To:
test7-confirm+38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93-at-listsmart.osl.state.or.us<test7-confirm%2B38d558c77e170cac9b8412a0db13b13e0560cc93-at-listsmart.osl.state.or.us>

VERP_CONFIRM_REGEXP will not be able to parse the token becaus it will
see the '<' and look for a following '+' which it won't find because
it is represented as %2B.

You could try putting

VERP_CONFIRM_REGEXP =
r'^(.*<)?(?P<addr>[^+%]+?)(\+|%2B)(?P<cookie>[^@]+)@.*$'

(note that should be all on one line) in mm_cfg.py. This (tested only
on your one example) regexp will accept either a '+' or '%2B' as the
delimiter.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From yahoo at jimpop.com  Thu Jun  5 06:36:00 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 00:36:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mod-security rules?
Message-ID: <7ff145960806042136y95394d4vfa9a52ab9aafdba9@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone have any advice/examples for mod-security rules on a Mailman site?

Thx.

-Jim P.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Jun  5 06:47:24 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 23:47:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mod-security rules?
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960806042136y95394d4vfa9a52ab9aafdba9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7ff145960806042136y95394d4vfa9a52ab9aafdba9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240806c46d204f78c1@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/5/08, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>  Does anyone have any advice/examples for mod-security rules on a 
>Mailman site?

And what are mod-security rules?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From yahoo at jimpop.com  Thu Jun  5 07:11:22 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 01:11:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mod-security rules?
In-Reply-To: <p06240806c46d204f78c1@192.168.1.199>
References: <7ff145960806042136y95394d4vfa9a52ab9aafdba9@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240806c46d204f78c1@192.168.1.199>
Message-ID: <7ff145960806042211r13c29645ta8bf8e9dc0f1c078@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 12:47 AM, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> And what are mod-security rules?

Mod-Security is an Apache module that can be used to prevent things
like XSS and other strange/nefarious behavior.  Mod-Security, as well
as GotRoot, offers some rules supporting Mailman, and I was just
looking for some recommendations on more robust rules.

See:
http://www.modsecurity.org/projects/modsecurity/apache/index.html
http://www.gotroot.com/

-Jim P.

From caty296 at yahoo.de  Thu Jun  5 11:21:01 2008
From: caty296 at yahoo.de (Aaaa Bbbb)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 09:21:01 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doesn't answer
Message-ID: <342860.60488.qm@web23111.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi list,
&nbsp;
I've got a problem with mailman. I run Suse with Apache2 and mailman installed. Mailman was working fine for weeks. But since a few days, mailman doesn't respond on mails. The webinterface is still working.
&nbsp;
I checked the logfiles in /var/lib/mailman/logs but the last entry there is 5 days ago and was nothing like an error.
&nbsp;
Does anyone have an idea how to check mailman and fix this problem?
&nbsp;
Thank you for help, 
best regards,
Ronny


      __________________________________________________________
Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail.
Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang.
http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com

From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Thu Jun  5 11:40:35 2008
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 15:10:35 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doesn't answer
In-Reply-To: <342860.60488.qm@web23111.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200806050938.m559citE007929@smtp.undp.org>

 

Dear Friends,

 

I need your help to sort out following problem. Please suggest.

 

I have configured mailman on a Linux based server. Domain name is
trrc-ten.org.

 

I have created a list moderated network at trrc-ten.org. my email id
vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in is listed in its administrator's and moderator's
and member's list. 

 

I have added a id vinita.aggarwal at gmail in its members list.

 

Now, when I send a email from vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in to
network at trrc-ten.org it gets circulated among all the members including my
vinita.aggarwalo at gmail.com

 

Now the problem is: when members check their email
(vinita.aggarwal at gmail.com..etc) they see that From is
"mailman-bounces at trrc-ten.org;
<mailto:mailman-bounces at trrc-ten.org;%20on%20behalf%20of;%20network-bounces@
trrc-ten.org>  on behalf of; network-bounces at trrc-ten.org" which is
incorrect.

 

It should be From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in

 

 

Please help me in identgying my mistake in configuring mailman or mailing
lists settings.

 

 

I look forward for early help.

 

Regards,

Vinita Aggarwal

Mailgroup & Web Administrator

Solution Exchange

United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)

55 Lodi Estate, New Delhi - 110003 INDIA

e-mail: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in 

Tel. 91-11-4653 2350

 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org] On
Behalf Of Aaaa Bbbb
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:51 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doesn't answer

 

Hi list,

&nbsp;

I've got a problem with mailman. I run Suse with Apache2 and mailman
installed. Mailman was working fine for weeks. But since a few days, mailman
doesn't respond on mails. The webinterface is still working.

&nbsp;

I checked the logfiles in /var/lib/mailman/logs but the last entry there is
5 days ago and was nothing like an error.

&nbsp;

Does anyone have an idea how to check mailman and fix this problem?

&nbsp;

Thank you for help, 

best regards,

Ronny

 

 

      __________________________________________________________

Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail.

Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang.

http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------------------------------

Mailman-Users mailing list

Mailman-Users at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/vinita.aggarwal%40un.or
g.in

 

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Thu Jun  5 12:00:51 2008
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 15:30:51 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From status is coming incorrect from the msg
	circulated to mailing list
In-Reply-To: <342860.60488.qm@web23111.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200806050959.m559wxQd016035@smtp.undp.org>

 

Dear Friends,

 

I need your help to sort out following problem. Please suggest.

 

I have configured mailman on a Linux based server. Domain name is
trrc-ten.org.

 

I have created a list moderated network at trrc-ten.org. my email id
vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in is listed in its administrator's and moderator's
and member's list. 

 

I have added a id vinita.aggarwal at gmail in its members list.

 

Now, when I send a email from vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in to
network at trrc-ten.org it gets circulated among all the members including my
vinita.aggarwalo at gmail.com

 

Now the problem is: when members check their email
(vinita.aggarwal at gmail.com..etc) they see that From is "
network-bounces at trrc-ten.org; on behalf of; Vinita Aggarwal
[vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in]" which is incorrect.

 

It should be From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in

 

 

Please help me in identgying my mistake in configuring mailman or mailing
lists settings.

 

 

I look forward for early help.

 

Regards,

Vinita Aggarwal

Mailgroup & Web Administrator

Solution Exchange

United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)

55 Lodi Estate, New Delhi - 110003 INDIA

e-mail: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in 

Tel. 91-11-4653 2350

 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org] On
Behalf Of Aaaa Bbbb
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:51 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doesn't answer

 

Hi list,

&nbsp;

I've got a problem with mailman. I run Suse with Apache2 and mailman
installed. Mailman was working fine for weeks. But since a few days, mailman
doesn't respond on mails. The webinterface is still working.

&nbsp;

I checked the logfiles in /var/lib/mailman/logs but the last entry there is
5 days ago and was nothing like an error.

&nbsp;

Does anyone have an idea how to check mailman and fix this problem?

&nbsp;

Thank you for help, 

best regards,

Ronny

 

 

      __________________________________________________________

Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail.

Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang.

http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------------------------------

Mailman-Users mailing list

Mailman-Users at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/vinita.aggarwal%40un.or
g.in

 

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From srb at umich.edu  Thu Jun  5 12:09:09 2008
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 06:09:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From status is coming incorrect from the
 msg	circulated to mailing list
In-Reply-To: <200806050959.m559wxQd016035@smtp.undp.org>
References: <200806050959.m559wxQd016035@smtp.undp.org>
Message-ID: <88CC97BF626F048C32BEECA6@srb.local>

--On June 5, 2008 3:30:51 PM +0530 Vinita Aggarwal 
<vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in> wrote:

> Now the problem is: when members check their email
> (vinita.aggarwal at gmail.com..etc) they see that From is "
> network-bounces at trrc-ten.org; on behalf of; Vinita Aggarwal
> [vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in]" which is incorrect.
>
>
>
> It should be From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in
>
>
>
>
>
> Please help me in identgying my mistake in configuring mailman or mailing
> lists settings.

To which I reply:

You haven't mis-configured the list; this is an Outlook problem.  See:

<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/From+field+displayed+by+Microsoft+Outlook>

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  5 16:22:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 07:22:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doesn't answer
In-Reply-To: <200806050938.m559citE007929@smtp.undp.org>
Message-ID: <PC1830200806050722390906de1d0d71@msapiro>

Vinita Aggarwal wrote:
>
>Now the problem is: when members check their email
>(vinita.aggarwal at gmail.com..etc) they see that From is
>"mailman-bounces at trrc-ten.org;
><mailto:mailman-bounces at trrc-ten.org;%20on%20behalf%20of;%20network-bounces@
>trrc-ten.org>  on behalf of; network-bounces at trrc-ten.org" which is
>incorrect.
>
> 
>
>It should be From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in

Please don't hijack existing threads for unrelated posts.

There seem to be two parts to this. The fact that the message is shown
as "From: Sender on behalf of From" instead of just "From: From" is a
Microsoft Outlook issue. See
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/From+field+displayed+by+Microsoft+Outlook>.

The fact that From is the list rather than the poster is because you
have set General Options -> anonymous_list to Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  5 16:24:21 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 07:24:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doesn't answer
In-Reply-To: <342860.60488.qm@web23111.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1830200806050724210906de1d0d5f@msapiro>

Aaaa Bbbb wrote:

>I've got a problem with mailman. I run Suse with Apache2 and mailman installed. Mailman was working fine for weeks. But since a few days, mailman doesn't respond on mails. The webinterface is still working.
>
>I checked the logfiles in /var/lib/mailman/logs but the last entry there is 5 days ago and was nothing like an error.
>
>Does anyone have an idea how to check mailman and fix this problem?


See
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Troubleshooting-++No+mail+going+out+to+lists+members>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  5 16:31:42 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 07:31:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From status is coming incorrect from the
	msgcirculated to mailing list
In-Reply-To: <200806050959.m559wxQd016035@smtp.undp.org>
Message-ID: <PC1830200806050731420406927ad040@msapiro>

Vinita Aggarwal wrote:

>I need your help  ...


First you hijack an existing thread for a new topic. Then you realize
you neglected to change the Subject, so you re-post with a new
Subject, but still as a "reply" to your first post, so now you have
hijacked your hijack.

When posting a new topic, compose a NEW mail, do not reply to an
existing mail.

If you don't understand what I'm talking about, see these posts in the
list at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-June/thread.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tw150001 at ncr.com  Thu Jun  5 17:53:18 2008
From: tw150001 at ncr.com (Williams, Theona)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:53:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to mailing
	lists
Message-ID: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD031F62CF@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>

 

I have reviewed several of the previous posting on this problem but do
not find a resolution. I have been using Mailman version 2.1.9 for about
3 months. A few days ago, mail delivered to all mailing list began to
bounce. I have not made any changes but I believe the mailman user id
was altered by the system administrator to add a password was added. I
have updated the mailman user to not require a password.  I have ran
check_perms and found a few errors which were corrected.  I have checked
the etc/aliases file and all entries appear to be fine.  The aliases
file does not appear to have changed. See below example of entry:

 

# mailman aliases


mailman:            "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"


mailman-admin:      "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"


mailman-bounces:    "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"


mailman-confirm:    "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"


mailman-join:       "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"


mailman-leave:      "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"


mailman-owner:      "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"


mailman-request:    "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"


mailman-subscribe:  "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"


mailman-unsubscribe:"|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman unsunscribe mailman"


 

I then restarted sendmail and mailman but I am still receiving the below
errors. 

 

Error messages in /var/log/mailman/error file:

Jun 05 08:35:02 2008 post(15152): post script, list not found: mailman


 

I have checked the mailman lists folder and it contains the following
files

-rwxrwxrwx    1 mailman  mailman       238 Apr 16 06:36 request.pck


-rw-rw----    1 mailman  mailman      3772 Jun  5 08:00 config.pck.last


-rw-rw----    1 mailman  mailman      3772 Jun  5 09:00 config.pck


 

 I am able to subscribe to the lists via the web and receive the
confirmation email but I am not able to send any email to the mailing
lists.  I received an undelivered message. Sendmail on the server is
working fine, if I send a mail directly to a unix user it is received.
Could you please let me know what could have gone wrong? Any help would
be deeply appreciated.

Thanks, 

 Theona Williams

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  5 18:15:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 09:15:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD031F62CF@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>
Message-ID: <PC1830200806050915510687ee3e6ca2@msapiro>

Williams, Theona wrote:
>
>I have reviewed several of the previous posting on this problem but do
>not find a resolution. I have been using Mailman version 2.1.9 for about
>3 months. A few days ago, mail delivered to all mailing list began to
>bounce. I have not made any changes but I believe the mailman user id
>was altered by the system administrator to add a password was added.


That should have no effect.


>I
>have updated the mailman user to not require a password.  I have ran
>check_perms and found a few errors which were corrected.  I have checked
>the etc/aliases file and all entries appear to be fine.  The aliases
>file does not appear to have changed. See below example of entry:
>
> 
>
># mailman aliases
>
>
>mailman:            "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>
>
>mailman-admin:      "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>
>
>mailman-bounces:    "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
>
>
>mailman-confirm:    "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
>
>
>mailman-join:       "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
>
>
>mailman-leave:      "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
>
>
>mailman-owner:      "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
>
>
>mailman-request:    "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
>
>
>mailman-subscribe:  "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
>
>
>mailman-unsubscribe:"|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman unsunscribe mailman"
>
>
> 
>
>I then restarted sendmail and mailman but I am still receiving the below
>errors. 
>
> 
>
>Error messages in /var/log/mailman/error file:
>
>Jun 05 08:35:02 2008 post(15152): post script, list not found: mailman


There seems to be some problem with where things are. Mailman will not
start if there is no 'mailman' list so there must be one, yet the post
script invoked by the wrapper at /u001/mailman/mail/mailman can't find
it.


>I have checked the mailman lists folder and it contains the following
>files
>
>-rwxrwxrwx    1 mailman  mailman       238 Apr 16 06:36 request.pck
>
>
>-rw-rw----    1 mailman  mailman      3772 Jun  5 08:00 config.pck.last
>
>
>-rw-rw----    1 mailman  mailman      3772 Jun  5 09:00 config.pck


Is this a listing of the directory /u001/mailman/lists/mailman/ or is
it some other directory?

Is there a /u001/scripts/ directory? If so, what's the setting for
prefix in the /u001/scripts/paths.py file?


> I am able to subscribe to the lists via the web and receive the
>confirmation email but I am not able to send any email to the mailing
>lists.  I received an undelivered message. Sendmail on the server is
>working fine, if I send a mail directly to a unix user it is received.
>Could you please let me know what could have gone wrong? Any help would
>be deeply appreciated.


My guess is some things moved. The wrapper at
/u001/mailman/mail/mailman which is invoked by the sendmail aliases is
invoking a post script which is not looking for the mailman
installation in its current location.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tw150001 at ncr.com  Thu Jun  5 20:07:32 2008
From: tw150001 at ncr.com (Williams, Theona)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 14:07:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <PC1830200806050915510687ee3e6ca2@msapiro>
References: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD031F62CF@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>
	<PC1830200806050915510687ee3e6ca2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD031F6368@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>


Thanks for the response. I have checked the locations and things appear
to be in the right locations.
The mailman lists exists in addition to 126 other lists. The error
occurs for all lists.

In response to your other questions:
Is this a listing of the directory /u001/mailman/lists/mailman/ or is
it some other directory? 
Yes, the mailman folder is in /u001/mailman/lists/mailman

Is there a /u001/scripts/ directory? If so, what's the setting for
prefix in the /u001/scripts/paths.py file? 

Yes there is a /u001/mailman/scripts directory. In the
/u001/mailman/scripts/paths.py file the prefix is set to
prefix = '/u001/mailman'  

Theona Williams

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 11:16 AM
To: Williams, Theona; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
mailinglists

Williams, Theona wrote:
>
>I have reviewed several of the previous posting on this problem but do
>not find a resolution. I have been using Mailman version 2.1.9 for
about
>3 months. A few days ago, mail delivered to all mailing list began to
>bounce. I have not made any changes but I believe the mailman user id
>was altered by the system administrator to add a password was added.


That should have no effect.


>I
>have updated the mailman user to not require a password.  I have ran
>check_perms and found a few errors which were corrected.  I have
checked
>the etc/aliases file and all entries appear to be fine.  The aliases
>file does not appear to have changed. See below example of entry:
>
> 
>
># mailman aliases
>
>
>mailman:            "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>
>
>mailman-admin:      "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>
>
>mailman-bounces:    "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
>
>
>mailman-confirm:    "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
>
>
>mailman-join:       "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
>
>
>mailman-leave:      "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
>
>
>mailman-owner:      "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
>
>
>mailman-request:    "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
>
>
>mailman-subscribe:  "|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
>
>
>mailman-unsubscribe:"|/u001/mailman/mail/mailman unsunscribe mailman"
>
>
> 
>
>I then restarted sendmail and mailman but I am still receiving the
below
>errors. 
>
> 
>
>Error messages in /var/log/mailman/error file:
>
>Jun 05 08:35:02 2008 post(15152): post script, list not found: mailman


There seems to be some problem with where things are. Mailman will not
start if there is no 'mailman' list so there must be one, yet the post
script invoked by the wrapper at /u001/mailman/mail/mailman can't find
it.


>I have checked the mailman lists folder and it contains the following
>files
>
>-rwxrwxrwx    1 mailman  mailman       238 Apr 16 06:36 request.pck
>
>
>-rw-rw----    1 mailman  mailman      3772 Jun  5 08:00 config.pck.last
>
>
>-rw-rw----    1 mailman  mailman      3772 Jun  5 09:00 config.pck


Is this a listing of the directory /u001/mailman/lists/mailman/ or is
it some other directory?

Is there a /u001/scripts/ directory? If so, what's the setting for
prefix in the /u001/scripts/paths.py file?


> I am able to subscribe to the lists via the web and receive the
>confirmation email but I am not able to send any email to the mailing
>lists.  I received an undelivered message. Sendmail on the server is
>working fine, if I send a mail directly to a unix user it is received.
>Could you please let me know what could have gone wrong? Any help would
>be deeply appreciated.


My guess is some things moved. The wrapper at
/u001/mailman/mail/mailman which is invoked by the sendmail aliases is
invoking a post script which is not looking for the mailman
installation in its current location.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  5 20:25:22 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:25:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD031F6368@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>
Message-ID: <PC1830200806051125220968d2131f1e@msapiro>

Williams, Theona wrote:
>
>Thanks for the response. I have checked the locations and things appear
>to be in the right locations.
>The mailman lists exists in addition to 126 other lists. The error
>occurs for all lists.

What do you get from

 /u001/mailman/bin/list_lists

Does it list all 127 lists?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tw150001 at ncr.com  Thu Jun  5 20:35:03 2008
From: tw150001 at ncr.com (Williams, Theona)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 14:35:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <PC1830200806051125220968d2131f1e@msapiro>
References: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD031F6368@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>
	<PC1830200806051125220968d2131f1e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD031F6384@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>

I just checked and it lists 125 lists which included the mailman list. I
have cut and paste the very top of the results and the portion that
references the mailman list.  

./list_lists | pg
125 matching mailing lists found:

                           A-cop - Architecture Community of Practice
(A-COP)  
                      Airline_cop - Airline Comunity of Practice

                        Anz_comms - ANZ Communications   
                      
    Mailman - Mailman site list             
  Mbaintern - MBA Interns
                   
Theona Williams

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 1:25 PM
To: Williams, Theona; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
mailinglists

Williams, Theona wrote:
>
>Thanks for the response. I have checked the locations and things appear
>to be in the right locations.
>The mailman lists exists in addition to 126 other lists. The error
>occurs for all lists.

What do you get from

 /u001/mailman/bin/list_lists

Does it list all 127 lists?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  5 20:49:29 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:49:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD031F6384@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>
Message-ID: <PC183020080605114929067123a5857c@msapiro>

Williams, Theona wrote:

>I just checked and it lists 125 lists which included the mailman list. I
>have cut and paste the very top of the results and the portion that
>references the mailman list.
>
>./list_lists | pg
>125 matching mailing lists found:
>
>                           A-cop - Architecture Community of Practice
>(A-COP)
>                      Airline_cop - Airline Comunity of Practice
>
>                        Anz_comms - ANZ Communications
>
>    Mailman - Mailman site list
>  Mbaintern - MBA Interns



What if you do

 python /u001/mailman/scripts/post mailman </dev/null

This should result in an empty post held by Mailman for an appropriate
reason. What happens in your case? (check logs) If it works, try

 /u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman </dev/nul

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tw150001 at ncr.com  Thu Jun  5 20:59:21 2008
From: tw150001 at ncr.com (Williams, Theona)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 14:59:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <PC183020080605114929067123a5857c@msapiro>
References: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD031F6384@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>
	<PC183020080605114929067123a5857c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD031F6395@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>

Received the following errors in /var/log/mailman/error file when I
tried
python /u001/mailman/scripts/post mailman </dev/null
 
Jun 05 14:51:25 2008 mailowner(32760): mailowner script, list not found:
mailman
 

Jun 05 14:51:25 2008 bounces(32761): bounces script, list not found:
mailman    

Thanks 
Theona Williams

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 1:49 PM
To: Williams, Theona; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
mailinglists

Williams, Theona wrote:

>I just checked and it lists 125 lists which included the mailman list.
I
>have cut and paste the very top of the results and the portion that
>references the mailman list.
>
>./list_lists | pg
>125 matching mailing lists found:
>
>                           A-cop - Architecture Community of Practice
>(A-COP)
>                      Airline_cop - Airline Comunity of Practice
>
>                        Anz_comms - ANZ Communications
>
>    Mailman - Mailman site list
>  Mbaintern - MBA Interns



What if you do

 python /u001/mailman/scripts/post mailman </dev/null

This should result in an empty post held by Mailman for an appropriate
reason. What happens in your case? (check logs) If it works, try

 /u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman </dev/nul

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tjp27 at pitt.edu  Thu Jun  5 21:25:35 2008
From: tjp27 at pitt.edu (Pile, Travis)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 15:25:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not speaking with MTA?
Message-ID: <C46DB5EF.750%tjp27@pitt.edu>

We're running X Server 10.4.11 on a G5 Xserve.
Mailman 2.1.5

The server hosts a few mailman lists that subscribed departmental users post to.  Last weekend, the webperfcache_log grew extremely large and filled up the server's boot drive.  We have since recovered and the server seems fine, save for mailman.  I can get welcome e-mails when I join lists, but I cannot get any list e-mails if I post to them.  I made sure my account receives posts that I make.  I get no undeliverable messages when e-mailing the list address.  The server SMTP logs say:

Jun  4 14:49:37 servername postfix/smtp[13034]: 25BC3CCB9DB: to=<somelist at my.domain.com>, relay=my.domain.com.s7a1.psmtp.com[64.18.6.14], delay=1, status=sent (250 Thanks)
Jun  4 14:49:37 servername postfix/qmgr[9844]: 25BC3CCB9DB: removed

Mailman SMTP logs say:

Jun 04 13:51:17 2008 (9867) <mailman.0.1212601876.12126.somelist at my.domain.com> smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.062 seconds

I get nothing in my mailman post logs.

My Qrunner proccesses start.  I have no locks.  Already ran check_perms and check_db.  Fsck'ed.  Stopped and restarted mail services.

Looks like posts make it to the server but nothing is sent out.  I can send and receive mail from the server with a standard mail client.  No list mails.  Anyone have a clue?
--
T.J. Pile
CSSD Contractor
School of Pharmacy
University of Pittsburgh
412-383-6972

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  5 21:43:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 12:43:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD031F6395@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>
Message-ID: <PC1830200806051243550937f0546da0@msapiro>

Williams, Theona wrote:

>Received the following errors in /var/log/mailman/error file when I
>tried
>python /u001/mailman/scripts/post mailman </dev/null
>
>Jun 05 14:51:25 2008 mailowner(32760): mailowner script, list not found:
>mailman
>
>
>Jun 05 14:51:25 2008 bounces(32761): bounces script, list not found:
>mailman 


Neither of those relates to the command you gave. The first is from the
'owner' script and the second is from the 'bounces' script.

Was there anything in the vette log?

If the post script invoked by

  python /u001/mailman/scripts/post mailman </dev/null

had issued the 'list not found' error, it would have been issued to the
terminal, so that indicates it didn't encounter that error.

This in turn indicates the wrapper that invokes the post, etc. scripts
is not invoking those in /u001/mailman/scripts/. This could mean that
/u001/mailman/mail/mailman was compiled with a different path (strings
/u001/mailman/mail/mailman might reveal this), or it could mean you
are running sendmail with smrsh, and the 'mailman' link in the smrsh
file (/var/adm/sm.bin, or where ever it happens to reside on your
system - alternatives include /etc/smrsh, /var/smrsh and
/usr/local/smrsh.) points to a different wrapper entirely.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  5 21:50:10 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 12:50:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not speaking with MTA?
In-Reply-To: <C46DB5EF.750%tjp27@pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1830200806051250100234e68e89b4@msapiro>

Pile, Travis wrote:

>We're running X Server 10.4.11 on a G5 Xserve.
>Mailman 2.1.5
>
>The server hosts a few mailman lists that subscribed departmental users post to.  Last weekend, the webperfcache_log grew extremely large and filled up the server's boot drive.  We have since recovered and the server seems fine, save for mailman.  I can get welcome e-mails when I join lists, but I cannot get any list e-mails if I post to them.  I made sure my account receives posts that I make.  I get no undeliverable messages when e-mailing the list address.  The server SMTP logs say:
>
>Jun  4 14:49:37 servername postfix/smtp[13034]: 25BC3CCB9DB: to=<somelist at my.domain.com>, relay=my.domain.com.s7a1.psmtp.com[64.18.6.14], delay=1, status=sent (250 Thanks)
>Jun  4 14:49:37 servername postfix/qmgr[9844]: 25BC3CCB9DB: removed


Which says the message was relayed to Postini. What happend to it after
that?


>Mailman SMTP logs say:
>
>Jun 04 13:51:17 2008 (9867) <mailman.0.1212601876.12126.somelist at my.domain.com> smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.062 seconds


This is not a post. This is a Mailman generated message such as a
welcome message. It is not a post.


>I get nothing in my mailman post logs.
>
>My Qrunner proccesses start.  I have no locks.  Already ran check_perms and check_db.  Fsck'ed.  Stopped and restarted mail services.
>
>Looks like posts make it to the server but nothing is sent out.  I can send and receive mail from the server with a standard mail client.  No list mails.  Anyone have a clue?


It looks to me like the mail never gets to Mailman. It is sent to
Postini (why?) and then what?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rak at fcien.edu.uy  Wed Jun  4 18:03:00 2008
From: rak at fcien.edu.uy (Carlos Bergero)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 14:03:00 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error after server crash
In-Reply-To: <PC18302008060317353206403453ec60@msapiro>
References: <PC18302008060317353206403453ec60@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4846BCB4.5030707@fcien.edu.uy>

Thx again, I'll tell you later how did things go. And what solution prevale.

Sincerely,
                Carlos

Mark Sapiro escribi?:
> Carlos Bergero wrote:
>
>   
>> Thx for the tip Mark, I remove the file but and the error stop, but the 
>> list disapear from the list_lists,
>>     
>
>
> If you removed only config.pck and not config.pck.last, you should
> either get the error again or the list should be there.
>
>
>   
>> I try with some cofnig.pck.last file 
>> that was in a backup dir but those files where corrupt also.
>> Is there any way to edit this file and fix it or recover it in some way?
>>     
>
>
> If you don't have a good backup of the config.pck or config.pck.last,
> you could try running bin/dumpdb on the files you have. This may
> produce some information that you can use, or you can run strings on
> the files to try to extract the email addresses of the list members.
>
> You will have to extract what info you can from the files and then
> recreate the list and use what you have to add members, etc.
>
>   


From tw150001 at ncr.com  Fri Jun  6 13:08:41 2008
From: tw150001 at ncr.com (Williams, Theona)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 07:08:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <PC1830200806051243550937f0546da0@msapiro>
References: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD031F6395@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>
	<PC1830200806051243550937f0546da0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD032810FA@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>

Here is what I see in the vette log. 
Jun 05 14:51:22 2008 (29076) Mailman post from held, message-id=n/a:
Message has implicit destination

~

When I run /u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman </dev/null
I receive the following message 

Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail

wrapper script to be executed as group "mail", but

the system's mail server executed the mail script as

group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the

script as group "mail", or re-run configure,

providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.


I am a bit skeptical to act on this error since I am getting the exact
same error on my test mailman server which works fine. Also, running the
./configure will erase many of the changes that I have made manually in
several files. Any suggestions? 

Theona Williams

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:44 PM
To: Williams, Theona; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
mailinglists

Williams, Theona wrote:

>Received the following errors in /var/log/mailman/error file when I
>tried
>python /u001/mailman/scripts/post mailman </dev/null
>
>Jun 05 14:51:25 2008 mailowner(32760): mailowner script, list not
found:
>mailman
>
>
>Jun 05 14:51:25 2008 bounces(32761): bounces script, list not found:
>mailman 


Neither of those relates to the command you gave. The first is from the
'owner' script and the second is from the 'bounces' script.

Was there anything in the vette log?

If the post script invoked by

  python /u001/mailman/scripts/post mailman </dev/null

had issued the 'list not found' error, it would have been issued to the
terminal, so that indicates it didn't encounter that error.

This in turn indicates the wrapper that invokes the post, etc. scripts
is not invoking those in /u001/mailman/scripts/. This could mean that
/u001/mailman/mail/mailman was compiled with a different path (strings
/u001/mailman/mail/mailman might reveal this), or it could mean you
are running sendmail with smrsh, and the 'mailman' link in the smrsh
file (/var/adm/sm.bin, or where ever it happens to reside on your
system - alternatives include /etc/smrsh, /var/smrsh and
/usr/local/smrsh.) points to a different wrapper entirely.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun  6 17:22:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:22:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD032810FA@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806060822080328a2746fd0@msapiro>

Williams, Theona wrote:

>Here is what I see in the vette log.
>Jun 05 14:51:22 2008 (29076) Mailman post from held, message-id=3Dn/a:
>Message has implicit destination


Right. This says you successfully delivered a null message to Mailman
via the /u001/mailman/scripts/post script which in turn says that that
post script works for your installation.


>When I run /u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman </dev/null
>I receive the following message
>
>Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
>wrapper script to be executed as group "mail", but
>the system's mail server executed the mail script as
>group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
>script as group "mail", or re-run configure,
>providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.
>
>
>I am a bit skeptical to act on this error since I am getting the exact
>same error on my test mailman server which works fine.


This error occurs because when you run the wrapper manually, you have
to run it as the expected group. My bad - I neglected to say that. Try

  sudo -u mail /u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman </dev/null


>Also, running the
>./configure will erase many of the changes that I have made manually in
>several files. Any suggestions?


I don't know what changes you've made, but

1. you should never change Defaults.py. Override Defaults.py settingn
in mm_cfg.py which will not be overwritten by configure - make install.

2. if you make changes to Mailman modules, etc. keep all the changes in
a master patch file that can just be applied to redo the changes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tw150001 at ncr.com  Fri Jun  6 20:38:53 2008
From: tw150001 at ncr.com (Williams, Theona)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 14:38:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806060822080328a2746fd0@msapiro>
References: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD032810FA@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>
	<PC1870200806060822080328a2746fd0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD0328140F@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>

If the post script is working fine, do you know what else could be the
problem? When I run 
python /u001/mailman/scripts/post mailman </dev/null then   
sudo -u mail /u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman </dev/null

I am getting errors for the bounce and mailowner scripts in the
/var/log/mailman/error file 
Jun 06 14:26:33 2008 mailowner(874): mailowner script, list not found:
mailman
Jun 06 14:26:53 2008 mailowner(883): mailowner script, list not found:
mailman
Jun 06 14:26:53 2008 bounces(884): bounces script, list not found:
mailman    
Jun 06 14:30:02 2008 post(916): post script, list not found: mailman
~

In logs/smtp-failure
Jun 06 14:26:53 2008 (784) All recipients refused: {'': (550, '5.1.1
<None>... U
ser unknown')}, msgid:
<mailman.8.1212776811.782.mailman at mlist-ncr.ncr.com>     
Jun 06 14:26:53 2008 (784) delivery to  failed with code 550: 5.1.1
<None>... User unknown

~

Thanks,
Theona Williams

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 10:22 AM
To: Williams, Theona; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
mailinglists

Williams, Theona wrote:

>Here is what I see in the vette log.
>Jun 05 14:51:22 2008 (29076) Mailman post from held, message-id=3Dn/a:
>Message has implicit destination


Right. This says you successfully delivered a null message to Mailman
via the /u001/mailman/scripts/post script which in turn says that that
post script works for your installation.


>When I run /u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman </dev/null
>I receive the following message
>
>Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
>wrapper script to be executed as group "mail", but
>the system's mail server executed the mail script as
>group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
>script as group "mail", or re-run configure,
>providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.
>
>
>I am a bit skeptical to act on this error since I am getting the exact
>same error on my test mailman server which works fine.


This error occurs because when you run the wrapper manually, you have
to run it as the expected group. My bad - I neglected to say that. Try

  sudo -u mail /u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman </dev/null


>Also, running the
>./configure will erase many of the changes that I have made manually in
>several files. Any suggestions?


I don't know what changes you've made, but

1. you should never change Defaults.py. Override Defaults.py settingn
in mm_cfg.py which will not be overwritten by configure - make install.

2. if you make changes to Mailman modules, etc. keep all the changes in
a master patch file that can just be applied to redo the changes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sunny at laymusic.org  Fri Jun  6 20:21:17 2008
From: sunny at laymusic.org (Laura Conrad)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 14:21:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail getting stuck in queue
Message-ID: <86iqwmmmbl.fsf@laymusic.org>


Intermittently, but increasingly frequently, the mailman I'm running
is getting into a state where messages are received and archived, but
not logged in the "posts" file or sent out by smtp.  

This situation usually resolves itself after I kick it enough.  Maybe
it would resolve itself if I didn't kick it at all.  I would like to
understand what's happening, so I can either stop it happening, or
kick it more efficiently.

This is on a mailman 2.1.10 installed from source on ubuntu 7.10.  The
machine is running postfix.  The mail log indicates that postfix has
passed the stuck mails to mailman:

    Jun  6 12:12:47 serpent postfix/local[12334]: 8139F240324:
     to=<bonnienews at serpent.laymusic.org>, relay=local, delay=0.31,
     delays=0.05/0.01/0/0.25, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
     /home/mailman/mail/mailman post bonnienews)

I've checked all the things in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>.
At one point, there was a second (old) OutgoingRunner process after I
had stopped and started mailmanctl several times, which I had to kill
by hand, but usually this isn't the case.  

Here's my kick_mailman.sh script; I also reboot the system when I've
tried this and it hasn't worked.  When the queue gets unclogged, it
isn't ever immediately after any of these things, including the
reboot.

-------------- next part --------------

There are errors in the error log:

Jun 05 13:38:41 2008 (7364) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: /home/mailman/qfiles/out/1212668722.1033101+99ec79fd321b54afb77e0ef5c8b0f5d2625e6aea.bak
Jun 06 13:07:58 2008 (12803) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: /home/mailman/qfiles/out/1212763581.350471+f1f22720a6342cd0ce99e4d29a21251f7440d973.bak

and in the smtp-failure log:

Jun 06 13:11:29 2008 (16109) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted system call'), msgid: <53c661160806060746y3372989ctf142728bc035ff4d at mail.gmail.com>
Jun 06 13:56:33 2008 (5154) SMTP session failure: 250, ok, msgid: <53c661160806060746y3372989ctf142728bc035ff4d at mail.gmail.com>
Jun 06 13:56:33 2008 (5154) delivery to <redacted>@gmail.com failed with code -1: (4, 'Interrupted system call')

What is happening between when mailman gets my mail and when it
finally agrees to disgorge it via smtp?  It is in the stuck state
right at the moment, if someone can walk me through more debugging.

-- 
Laura   (mailto:lconrad at laymusic.org http://www.laymusic.org/ )
(617) 661-8097	233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139   

I value kindness to human beings first of all, and kindness to
animals. I don't respect the law; I have a total irreverence for
anything connected with society except that which makes the roads
safer, the beer stronger, the food cheaper, and old men and women
warmer in the winter, and happier in the summer.

Brendan Behan (1923 - 1964)


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun  6 21:03:00 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 12:03:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD0328140F@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806061203000390815fef46@msapiro>

Williams, Theona wrote:

>If the post script is working fine, do you know what else could be the
>problem? When I run
>python /u001/mailman/scripts/post mailman </dev/null then


You don't need to do this first. It just verifies that the
/u001/mailman/scripts/post script works.


>sudo -u mail /u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman </dev/null
>
>I am getting errors for the bounce and mailowner scripts in the
>/var/log/mailman/error file
>Jun 06 14:26:33 2008 mailowner(874): mailowner script, list not found:
>mailman
>Jun 06 14:26:53 2008 mailowner(883): mailowner script, list not found:
>mailman
>Jun 06 14:26:53 2008 bounces(884): bounces script, list not found:
>mailman


The above errors are presumably from actual mail to mailman-owner and
mailman-bounces however, this mail was generated by mailman in
response to the held (null) post.


>Jun 06 14:30:02 2008 post(916): post script, list not found: mailman


And this error is the relevant one. If in fact, it came from the

 sudo -u mail /u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman </dev/null

command and not from some mail to the mailman at ... address which
coincidentally arrived at the same time. See below for more.


>In logs/smtp-failure
>Jun 06 14:26:53 2008 (784) All recipients refused: {'': (550, '5.1.1
><None>... User unknown')}, msgid:
><mailman.8.1212776811.782.mailman at mlist-ncr.ncr.com>
>Jun 06 14:26:53 2008 (784) delivery to  failed with code 550: 5.1.1
><None>... User unknown


These errors are from Mailman's attempt to send a notification of the
held (null) post back to the submitter that is None because the post
was empty.

So we have now verified that the /u001/mailman/scripts/post script
itself works, but that the scripts invoked by the
/u001/mailman/mail/mailman wrapper do not work. Thus the wrapper
itself must be pointing at the wrong scripts directory.

If the wrapper were correct, somewhere in the output from

  strings /u001/mailman/mail/mailman

you should see '/u001/mailman/scripts/'

I think you will see some other path ending in '/scripts/' instead and
that is your problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun  6 21:19:22 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 12:19:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail getting stuck in queue
In-Reply-To: <86iqwmmmbl.fsf@laymusic.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806061219220890c4157150@msapiro>

Laura Conrad wrote:
>
>Intermittently, but increasingly frequently, the mailman I'm running
>is getting into a state where messages are received and archived, but
>not logged in the "posts" file or sent out by smtp.  
>
>This situation usually resolves itself after I kick it enough.  Maybe
>it would resolve itself if I didn't kick it at all.  I would like to
>understand what's happening, so I can either stop it happening, or
>kick it more efficiently.
>
>This is on a mailman 2.1.10 installed from source on ubuntu 7.10.  The
>machine is running postfix.  The mail log indicates that postfix has
>passed the stuck mails to mailman:
>
[...]

Which you already knew because they are archived.


>
>I've checked all the things in
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>.
>At one point, there was a second (old) OutgoingRunner process after I
>had stopped and started mailmanctl several times, which I had to kill
>by hand, but usually this isn't the case.  
>
>Here's my kick_mailman.sh script; I also reboot the system when I've
>tried this and it hasn't worked.  When the queue gets unclogged, it
>isn't ever immediately after any of these things, including the
>reboot.
>
>
>--=-=-=
>
>
>There are errors in the error log:
>
>Jun 05 13:38:41 2008 (7364) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: /home/mailman/qfiles/out/1212668722.1033101+99ec79fd321b54afb77e0ef5c8b0f5d2625e6aea.bak
>Jun 06 13:07:58 2008 (12803) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: /home/mailman/qfiles/out/1212763581.350471+f1f22720a6342cd0ce99e4d29a21251f7440d973.bak


I think these are a result of the 'kicking' process, but it's hard to
say since the script wasn't here.


>and in the smtp-failure log:
>
>Jun 06 13:11:29 2008 (16109) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted system call'), msgid: <53c661160806060746y3372989ctf142728bc035ff4d at mail.gmail.com>
>Jun 06 13:56:33 2008 (5154) SMTP session failure: 250, ok, msgid: <53c661160806060746y3372989ctf142728bc035ff4d at mail.gmail.com>
>Jun 06 13:56:33 2008 (5154) delivery to <redacted>@gmail.com failed with code -1: (4, 'Interrupted system call')
>
>What is happening between when mailman gets my mail and when it
>finally agrees to disgorge it via smtp?  It is in the stuck state
>right at the moment, if someone can walk me through more debugging.


In which queue (subdirectory of qfiles/) are the messages? Almost
certainly in 'out'.

The smtp-failure entries seem to say that there is some problem between
OutgoingRunner and the MTA.

In the stuck state, OutgoingRunner is waiting for some response from
the MTA, and that response isn't coming because somehow the SMTP
session has gotten out of sync.

See
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/How+do+I+debug+smtp-failure+problems+-+delivery+to+user-example.com+failed+with+code+-1-+and+Low+level+smtp+error->.

If your Python is at least 2.4.x, you can follow the instructions for
modifying Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to produce more debugging
output in Mailman's error log which may help you find more. Do not do
this with Python 2.3.x for the reason mentioned in the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tw150001 at ncr.com  Fri Jun  6 21:33:31 2008
From: tw150001 at ncr.com (Williams, Theona)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 15:33:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806061203000390815fef46@msapiro>
References: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD0328140F@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>
	<PC1870200806061203000390815fef46@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD03281423@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>

I ran strings /u001/mailman/mail/mailman. The output is attached. The
wrapper is pointing to /u001/mailman/scripts/.

3 months ago, during installation the configure script was ran with
with-cgi-gid =apache --with-mail-gid = mail.


Theona Williams

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun  6 22:45:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 13:45:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD03281423@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806061345390671815ff086@msapiro>

Williams, Theona wrote:
>
>I ran strings /u001/mailman/mail/mailman. The output is attached. The
>wrapper is pointing to /u001/mailman/scripts/.


Yes, the strings output looks good.


>3 months ago, during installation the configure script was ran with
>with-cgi-gid =apache --with-mail-gid = mail.

and presumably with prefix=/u001/mailman and maybe other arguments too.


So to recap, it seems that running

   python /u001/mailman/scripts/post mailman </dev/null

actually posts a null message to the Mailman list, but that running

  sudo -u mail /u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman </dev/null

fails and logs a "Jun 06 14:30:02 2008 post(916): post script, list not
found: mailman" error.

This is a bit puzzling unless the latter command also issued the "post
script, list not found: mailman" error to the terminal. It should have
both logged the error and written it to the terminal.

So we are left as I see it with two possibilities:

1) There is something wrong with the /u001/mailman/mail/mailman
wrapper, or

2) Some other wrapper is actually being invoked.

Please refer back to
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-June/061950.html>
and verify that either sendmail is not using smrsh or if sendmail is
using smrsh, that the smrsh file points at the correct wrapper.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rob at voyle.com  Fri Jun  6 22:49:33 2008
From: rob at voyle.com (Rob Voyle)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:49:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Program location
Message-ID: <4849406D.9890.27C1C0CF@rob.voyle.com>

Hi Folks

I am new to mailman, climbing a very steep hill.

I have a virtual private apache server, which can handle several domains.  does 
mailman have to reside on the root or can it reside on one of the domains.  i 
would prefer it to run from one of the domains so the email addresses have some 
relevance to the domain.

Thanks

Rob 

From sunny at laymusic.org  Fri Jun  6 23:46:05 2008
From: sunny at laymusic.org (Laura Conrad)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:46:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail getting stuck in queue
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806061219220890c4157150@msapiro> (Mark Sapiro's message
	of "Fri\, 6 Jun 2008 12\:19\:22 -0700")
References: <PC1870200806061219220890c4157150@msapiro>
Message-ID: <86ej7ame3m.fsf@laymusic.org>

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> writes:

    Mark> Laura Conrad wrote:
    >> 
    >> Intermittently, but increasingly frequently, the mailman I'm running
    >> is getting into a state where messages are received and archived, but
    >> not logged in the "posts" file or sent out by smtp.  
    >> 
    >> This situation usually resolves itself after I kick it enough.  Maybe
    >> it would resolve itself if I didn't kick it at all.  I would like to
    >> understand what's happening, so I can either stop it happening, or
    >> kick it more efficiently.
    >> 
    >> This is on a mailman 2.1.10 installed from source on ubuntu 7.10.  The
    >> machine is running postfix.  The mail log indicates that postfix has
    >> passed the stuck mails to mailman:
    >> 
...
    >> What is happening between when mailman gets my mail and when it
    >> finally agrees to disgorge it via smtp?  It is in the stuck state
    >> right at the moment, if someone can walk me through more debugging.


    Mark> In which queue (subdirectory of qfiles/) are the messages? Almost
    Mark> certainly in 'out'.

Yes.

    Mark> See
    Mark> <http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/How+do+I+debug+smtp-failure+problems+-+delivery+to+user-example.com+failed+with+code+-1-+and+Low+level+smtp+error->.

    Mark> If your Python is at least 2.4.x, you can follow the instructions for
    Mark> modifying Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to produce more debugging
    Mark> output in Mailman's error log which may help you find more. Do not do
    Mark> this with Python 2.3.x for the reason mentioned in the FAQ.

OK.  It isn't completely stuck, but it's taking a lot longer to send
out a few messages than I'd expect.  Right now, the last post in the
post log was at 16:30, and at 17:39, "tail error" says:

Jun 06 17:37:59 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at yahoo.com>\r\n' 
Jun 06 17:38:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply:   '250 ok\r\n' 
Jun 06 17:38:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok 
Jun 06 17:38:29 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at gmail.com>\r\n' 
Jun 06 17:38:59 2008 qrunner(14342): reply:   '250 ok\r\n' 
Jun 06 17:38:59 2008 qrunner(14342): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok 
Jun 06 17:38:59 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at yahoo.com>\r\n' 
Jun 06 17:39:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply:   '250 ok\r\n' 
Jun 06 17:39:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok 
Jun 06 17:39:29 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at hotmail.com>\r\n' 

Does this tell you anything?


-- 
Laura   (mailto:lconrad at laymusic.org http://www.laymusic.org/ )
(617) 661-8097	233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139   

The squeaking of the pump sounds as necessary as the music of the spheres. 

Henry David Thoreau

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun  7 00:30:07 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 15:30:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail getting stuck in queue
In-Reply-To: <86ej7ame3m.fsf@laymusic.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806061530070859815ff122@msapiro>

Laura Conrad 
>
>OK.  It isn't completely stuck, but it's taking a lot longer to send
>out a few messages than I'd expect.  Right now, the last post in the
>post log was at 16:30, and at 17:39, "tail error" says:
>
>Jun 06 17:37:59 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at yahoo.com>\r\n' 
>Jun 06 17:38:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply:   '250 ok\r\n' 
>Jun 06 17:38:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok 
>Jun 06 17:38:29 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at gmail.com>\r\n' 
>Jun 06 17:38:59 2008 qrunner(14342): reply:   '250 ok\r\n' 
>Jun 06 17:38:59 2008 qrunner(14342): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok 
>Jun 06 17:38:59 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at yahoo.com>\r\n' 
>Jun 06 17:39:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply:   '250 ok\r\n' 
>Jun 06 17:39:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok 
>Jun 06 17:39:29 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at hotmail.com>\r\n' 
>
>Does this tell you anything?


Yes. It tells me your outgoing MTA is verifying each recipient address
and taking 30 seconds for each one. I.e it is processing a maximum of
120 recipients per hour or 2.5 hours for one post to a list with 300
non-digest subscribers. Then your out queue gets hoplessly backlogged.

You can look at some of the performance FAQs at
<http://wiki.list.org/dosearchsite.action?searchQuery.queryString=performance&searchQuery.spaceKey=DOC>
for some ideas, but this is an MTA configuration issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun  7 00:35:10 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 15:35:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Program location
In-Reply-To: <4849406D.9890.27C1C0CF@rob.voyle.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806061535100437815fef7f@msapiro>

Rob Voyle wrote:
>
>I have a virtual private apache server, which can handle several domains.  does 
>mailman have to reside on the root or can it reside on one of the domains.  i 
>would prefer it to run from one of the domains so the email addresses have some 
>relevance to the domain.


Mailman can be installed anywhere on the server that can be accessed by
the MTA and web server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cite at incertum.net  Sat Jun  7 00:34:47 2008
From: cite at incertum.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stefan_F=F6rster?=)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 00:34:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail getting stuck in queue
In-Reply-To: <86ej7ame3m.fsf@laymusic.org>
References: <PC1870200806061219220890c4157150@msapiro>
	<86ej7ame3m.fsf@laymusic.org>
Message-ID: <54C7FBC0-89C1-4740-ACB0-7D1BF4337B11@incertum.net>


Am 06.06.2008 um 23:46 schrieb Laura Conrad:
>
>    Mark> If your Python is at least 2.4.x, you can follow the  
> instructions for
>    Mark> modifying Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to produce more  
> debugging
>    Mark> output in Mailman's error log which may help you find more.  
> Do not do
>    Mark> this with Python 2.3.x for the reason mentioned in the FAQ.
>
> OK.  It isn't completely stuck, but it's taking a lot longer to send
> out a few messages than I'd expect.  Right now, the last post in the
> post log was at 16:30, and at 17:39, "tail error" says:
>
> Jun 06 17:37:59 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at yahoo.com 
> >\r\n'
> Jun 06 17:38:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply:   '250 ok\r\n'
> Jun 06 17:38:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
> Jun 06 17:38:29 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at gmail.com 
> >\r\n'
> Jun 06 17:38:59 2008 qrunner(14342): reply:   '250 ok\r\n'
> Jun 06 17:38:59 2008 qrunner(14342): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
> Jun 06 17:38:59 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at yahoo.com 
> >\r\n'
> Jun 06 17:39:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply:   '250 ok\r\n'
> Jun 06 17:39:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
> Jun 06 17:39:29 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at hotmail.com 
> >\r\n'
>
> Does this tell you anything?


Basically either your Postfix needs from 17:38:29 to 17:38:59 to  
accept a single recipient or Mailman needs 30 seconds to read the  
response. It if is Postfix, you will either notice something in your  
maillog right away or at least you will be able to produce valuable  
debugging output running

postconf -e debug_peer_list=127.0.0.1 && postfix reload (replace  
127.0.0.1 with the IP of your Mailman server if they don't run on the  
same box)

Aside from misconfiguration or server load, one thing that immediately  
comes to my mind are excessive errors - after more than  
smtpd_soft_error_limit, this kind of slowdown is exactly what happens.


Cheers
Stefan
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9
Mac OS X ate my ~/.signature.

From brad at python.org  Sat Jun  7 03:04:24 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:04:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail getting stuck in queue
In-Reply-To: <86ej7ame3m.fsf@laymusic.org>
References: <PC1870200806061219220890c4157150@msapiro>
	<86ej7ame3m.fsf@laymusic.org>
Message-ID: <4849DE98.9080109@python.org>

Laura Conrad wrote:

> OK.  It isn't completely stuck, but it's taking a lot longer to send
> out a few messages than I'd expect.  Right now, the last post in the
> post log was at 16:30, and at 17:39, "tail error" says:
> 
> Jun 06 17:37:59 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at yahoo.com>\r\n' 
> Jun 06 17:38:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply:   '250 ok\r\n' 
> Jun 06 17:38:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok 
> Jun 06 17:38:29 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at gmail.com>\r\n' 
> Jun 06 17:38:59 2008 qrunner(14342): reply:   '250 ok\r\n' 
> Jun 06 17:38:59 2008 qrunner(14342): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok 
> Jun 06 17:38:59 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at yahoo.com>\r\n' 
> Jun 06 17:39:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply:   '250 ok\r\n' 
> Jun 06 17:39:29 2008 qrunner(14342): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok 
> Jun 06 17:39:29 2008 qrunner(14342): send:   'rcpt TO:<redacted at hotmail.com>\r\n' 
> 
> Does this tell you anything?

My guess is that you're doing DNS validation and other anti-spam checks on 
your outbound mail.  You don't want to do that.  Do those things on input, 
and then set up a separate outbound-only mail processor that avoids all of 
those checks, because you've already done them on input.

See FAQ 4.20 at <http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030587>, 
and the stuff in section 6 that are specific to your MTA, and also pay 
special attention to FAQ 6.6 at 
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+Performance+Tuning+for+Mail+Delivery>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From david at midrange.com  Sat Jun  7 03:13:28 2008
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:13:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatically creating short URL's?
Message-ID: <4849E0B8.5050102@midrange.com>

Folks:

Has anyone considered the idea of using one of the URL shortening
services (tinyurl.com, etc) to automatically process URI's in messages
processed by mailman?

When people on my lists post URL's, they are quite often long and
unwieldy ... it would be nice if I could automatically translate those
long URI's into shorter versions.

Thanks!

david



From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Jun  7 05:12:49 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 22:12:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatically creating short URL's?
In-Reply-To: <4849E0B8.5050102@midrange.com>
References: <4849E0B8.5050102@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c46facd391d7@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/6/08, David Gibbs wrote:

>  Has anyone considered the idea of using one of the URL shortening
>  services (tinyurl.com, etc) to automatically process URI's in messages
>  processed by mailman?

Don't recall anyone requesting this specific feature, no.

But that doesn't mean they haven't asked for it.

Feel free to look on the SourceForge "Patch" or "RFE" pages for 
Mailman to see if this request has already been filed, or if a patch 
to perform this function has already been uploaded.  If not, feel 
free to file a request via the RFE page, or upload a patch.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From rob at voyle.com  Sat Jun  7 19:23:25 2008
From: rob at voyle.com (Rob Voyle)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:23:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email html editing
Message-ID: <484A619D.10838.2C2B6945@rob.voyle.com>

Hi Folks

I create an email newsletter.  What I need to do is create an HTML version
and a text version, that while having the same basic content are organized
to present the information in an intelligible form and doesn't radically
mess with final format. Most email programs I have looked at don't have the 
option of separately editing the text and/or create lousy html 

Thanks

Rob


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Jun  7 21:09:51 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 14:09:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email html editing
In-Reply-To: <484A619D.10838.2C2B6945@rob.voyle.com>
References: <484A619D.10838.2C2B6945@rob.voyle.com>
Message-ID: <p06240806c4708d021d10@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/7/08, Rob Voyle wrote:

>  I create an email newsletter.  What I need to do is create an HTML version
>  and a text version, that while having the same basic content are organized
>  to present the information in an intelligible form and doesn't radically
>  mess with final format. Most email programs I have looked at don't have the
>  option of separately editing the text and/or create lousy html

This doesn't really have anything to do with Mailman.  It can strip 
HTML, convert HTML to text, etc..., but it doesn't do anything at all 
on the generation side.  You generate your mail message using 
whatever tool(s) you want, and then send that message to the list, 
where it gets processed by Mailman.

One option for you may be to simply run two separate lists.  One is 
HTML-only, the other is text-only.  Users get subscribed to whichever 
list carries the kind of content they want, and you can carefully 
craft whatever messages you send out in HTML totally separately from 
the messages you send out in text-only form.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From david at hlacik.eu  Sat Jun  7 22:56:16 2008
From: david at hlacik.eu (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?David_Hl=E1=E8ik?=)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 22:56:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] create mailinglist from commandline with parameters
Message-ID: <cba415ca0806071356g3ae31f30teea731795065ba62@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

for my script i need to be able to create new mailinglist and after
that set up configuration specifics from command line also.

I will create a new mailinglist with newlist -q option .
Then i need to assing mail/news gateway configuration specifics
(nntp_host,linked_newsgroup ...) to that mailinglist from command line
also.

How can i do it?
Thanks in advance

David

From david at hlacik.eu  Sat Jun  7 23:01:15 2008
From: david at hlacik.eu (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?David_Hl=E1=E8ik?=)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 23:01:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gateway_to_mail (gateway):
Message-ID: <cba415ca0806071401q3697e80tb138e76ffb3364ef@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, how exactly gateway_to_mail option and feature works for
news/mailman gateway?

Is there any need to configure INN for this ability , or Mailman does
everything on self?

How is this implemented?

Thanks in advance!
David

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun  7 23:11:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 14:11:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] create mailinglist from commandline with
	parameters
In-Reply-To: <cba415ca0806071356g3ae31f30teea731795065ba62@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cba415ca0806071356g3ae31f30teea731795065ba62@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <484AF99B.20508@msapiro.net>

David Hl?ik wrote:
> 
> I will create a new mailinglist with newlist -q option .
> Then i need to assing mail/news gateway configuration specifics
> (nntp_host,linked_newsgroup ...) to that mailinglist from command line
> also.
> 
> How can i do it?


bin/config_list


E.g., something along the lines of

#! /bin/sh
f=`mktmp`
cat <<EOF >$f
nntp_host = '...'
linked_newsgroup = '...'
EOF
bin/config_list -i $f listname
rm $f

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun  7 23:19:09 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 14:19:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gateway_to_mail (gateway):
In-Reply-To: <cba415ca0806071401q3697e80tb138e76ffb3364ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cba415ca0806071401q3697e80tb138e76ffb3364ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <484AFB4D.3020903@msapiro.net>

David Hl?ik wrote:

> Hello, how exactly gateway_to_mail option and feature works for
> news/mailman gateway?


cron/gate_news runs via cron (every 5 minutes in a default
configuration) and polls the news group for new messages.


> Is there any need to configure INN for this ability , or Mailman does
> everything on self?


Mailman accesses the news host via nntp using standard Python library
modules. There is no need to have any news server on the Mailman host
unless of course it is also the news host.


> How is this implemented?


Very well. ;-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun  7 23:46:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 14:46:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.11rc1 has been released
Message-ID: <484B01CA.5050908@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am happy to announce the release of the first release candidate for
Mailman 2.1.11.

Mailman 2.1.11 is a cleanup of a few problems found since the release of
Mailman 2.1.10. It fixes the issue of shunted email subscribe requests
and a few minor issues. It updates the contrib/mmdsr script for some
2.1.10 and 2.1.11 log and error messages, and it adds a new cron to cull
and optionally archive old entries in the 'bad' and 'shunt' queues. See
the release notes at
<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=103&release_id=605074>
for details.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, including download links, please see:

http://www.list.org
http://mailman.sf.net
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman

Note that since the 2.1.11rc1 tarball was prepared, a few issues
involving the Dutch, German, Korean, Russian, Spanish and traditional
Chinese translations have been corrected, so if you use any of these
languages, you probably will want to wait for the next candidate or
final release.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From tw150001 at ncr.com  Sun Jun  8 05:07:29 2008
From: tw150001 at ncr.com (Williams, Theona)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 23:07:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806061345390671815ff086@msapiro>
References: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD03281423@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>
	<PC1870200806061345390671815ff086@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1538F307DBC75646AACE74502CE443FD032814B9@SUSDAY253.corp.ncr.com>

Mark, 
Thanks for your help. As you suggested, I checked the 'mailman' link in
the smrsh file. It was indeed pointing to the wrong location. It appears
to have been changed on the same day the mailman login was updated by
the system administrator. I have changed the symbolic link and
everything seems to be working fine now. Thanks much. 

Theona Williams

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 3:46 PM
To: Williams, Theona; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Messages have stopped getting delivered to
mailinglists

Williams, Theona wrote:
>
>I ran strings /u001/mailman/mail/mailman. The output is attached. The
>wrapper is pointing to /u001/mailman/scripts/.


Yes, the strings output looks good.


>3 months ago, during installation the configure script was ran with
>with-cgi-gid =apache --with-mail-gid = mail.

and presumably with prefix=/u001/mailman and maybe other arguments too.


So to recap, it seems that running

   python /u001/mailman/scripts/post mailman </dev/null

actually posts a null message to the Mailman list, but that running

  sudo -u mail /u001/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman </dev/null

fails and logs a "Jun 06 14:30:02 2008 post(916): post script, list not
found: mailman" error.

This is a bit puzzling unless the latter command also issued the "post
script, list not found: mailman" error to the terminal. It should have
both logged the error and written it to the terminal.

So we are left as I see it with two possibilities:

1) There is something wrong with the /u001/mailman/mail/mailman
wrapper, or

2) Some other wrapper is actually being invoked.

Please refer back to
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-June/061950.html>
and verify that either sendmail is not using smrsh or if sendmail is
using smrsh, that the smrsh file points at the correct wrapper.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob001 at gmail.com  Sun Jun  8 18:07:35 2008
From: bob001 at gmail.com (Bob001)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 09:07:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.10 .. yahoo says "domainkeys=fail
 (badsig)" ...
In-Reply-To: <4846C406.7010107@python.org>
References: <29be4f4d0806032325q2b3190ctc641d211610c6575@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC183020080604071258003189e032d9@msapiro>
	<17649832.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<7ff145960806040857w54c16690j78b4cec09abe8a63@mail.gmail.com>
	<17650296.post@talk.nabble.com> <4846C406.7010107@python.org>
Message-ID: <17720209.post@talk.nabble.com>


It worked out.
If we disable personalization and footer from non-digest and digest
options..
It works fine for emails sent out from same domain users. Solution was
provided on the following list..cross-posting it for everyone's benefit. 

--
http://archive.netbsd.se/?ml=postfix-users&a=2008-06&m=7566380
--

So, open issue is if other list users (say gmail or yahoo users) sends out
an email , it is still failing. It is sort of successful for announce-only
kind of list. 

Any suggestion on this second part? 

Regards,
Bob.



Brad Knowles-2 wrote:
> 
> Bob001 wrote:
> 
>> So, how you all are exactly achieving post-signing of messages after
>> REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS=Yes? 
> 
> That would be done in your MTA.  Mailman has no involvement with this
> process.
> 
>> Do we have any documentation on what changes should be done on
>> postfix/dkimproxy side for post-signing?
> 
> Not within the Mailman project, no.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
> Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
> mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40nabble.com
> 
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/mailman-2.1.10-..-yahoo-says-%22domainkeys%3Dfail-%28bad-sig%29%22-...-tp17640127p17720209.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From bronto at csd-bes.net  Mon Jun  9 00:30:09 2008
From: bronto at csd-bes.net (Rob Brandt)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 15:30:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Forbidden
Message-ID: <484C5D71.1070007@csd-bes.net>

I have a new installation I'm testing.  I'm on a fresh install of 
ubuntu, mailman compiled from scratch.

Mostly working now, but the mailing list public archives are show as 
forbidden in my browser.  The data is actually there in the folders, 
stored in private and symlinked to public.  I've run permissions check 
and everything is OK (it says).  What's my trouble?  When I browse to 
the pipermail folder it doesn't even list the public & private folders. 
  Public (at least) is set to read by all.

Rob


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jun  9 02:16:16 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 19:16:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Forbidden
In-Reply-To: <484C5D71.1070007@csd-bes.net>
References: <484C5D71.1070007@csd-bes.net>
Message-ID: <p06240801c47226b12306@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/8/08, Rob Brandt wrote:

>  Mostly working now, but the mailing list public archives are show as
>  forbidden in my browser.  The data is actually there in the folders,
>  stored in private and symlinked to public.  I've run permissions check
>  and everything is OK (it says).  What's my trouble?

Is your web server configured to follow symlinks?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From bronto at csd-bes.net  Mon Jun  9 04:41:37 2008
From: bronto at csd-bes.net (Rob Brandt)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:41:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Forbidden
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c47226b12306@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <484C5D71.1070007@csd-bes.net>
	<p06240801c47226b12306@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <484C9861.5050200@csd-bes.net>

Yes, in apache2.conf, I have:

<Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/>
Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
</Directory>

I tried it without the trailing slash on the path too.

Rob

Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 6/8/08, Rob Brandt wrote:
> 
>>  Mostly working now, but the mailing list public archives are show as
>>  forbidden in my browser.  The data is actually there in the folders,
>>  stored in private and symlinked to public.  I've run permissions check
>>  and everything is OK (it says).  What's my trouble?
> 
> Is your web server configured to follow symlinks?
> 


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun  9 05:22:49 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 20:22:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Forbidden
In-Reply-To: <484C9861.5050200@csd-bes.net>
Message-ID: <PC18702008060820224901717cd1b9dc@msapiro>

Rob Brandt wrote:

>Yes, in apache2.conf, I have:
>
><Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/>
>Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
></Directory>

Do you implicitly not allow your access? You might need

    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all

inside the Directory section if you have a Deny on a superordinate
directory.

What's in apache's error_log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bronto at csd-bes.net  Mon Jun  9 05:32:17 2008
From: bronto at csd-bes.net (Rob Brandt)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 20:32:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Forbidden
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008060820224901717cd1b9dc@msapiro>
References: <PC18702008060820224901717cd1b9dc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <484CA441.5010201@csd-bes.net>

Not intentionally, and I just combed through the conf files and see no 
reference.  In any case, I changed it to:

<Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/>
     Order allow,deny
     Allow from all
     Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
</Directory>

restarted apache and it's still Forbidden.

Rob

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Rob Brandt wrote:
> 
>> Yes, in apache2.conf, I have:
>>
>> <Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/>
>> Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
>> </Directory>
> 
> Do you implicitly not allow your access? You might need
> 
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> 
> inside the Directory section if you have a Deny on a superordinate
> directory.
> 
> What's in apache's error_log?
> 


From subscribed-lists at sterndata.com  Mon Jun  9 05:50:44 2008
From: subscribed-lists at sterndata.com (Steven Stern)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 22:50:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Forbidden
In-Reply-To: <484C5D71.1070007@csd-bes.net>
References: <484C5D71.1070007@csd-bes.net>
Message-ID: <484CA894.1010002@sterndata.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 06/08/2008 05:30 PM, Rob Brandt wrote:
| I have a new installation I'm testing.  I'm on a fresh install of
| ubuntu, mailman compiled from scratch.
|
| Mostly working now, but the mailing list public archives are show as
| forbidden in my browser.  The data is actually there in the folders,
| stored in private and symlinked to public.  I've run permissions check
| and everything is OK (it says).  What's my trouble?  When I browse to
| the pipermail folder it doesn't even list the public & private folders.
|  Public (at least) is set to read by all.
|
| Rob



Is Ubuntu using SELinux?  If so, you'll probably need to use audit2allow
to create aplicy to allow it to read the archives.

- --

~  Steve
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkhMqJQACgkQeERILVgMyvAM6ACdEE2I7W3EBpRy1zedYjo2C2bc
jncAnRxdBoQNLyu06JnE7ZyuP2Dqpwgm
=DDuT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From bronto at csd-bes.net  Mon Jun  9 06:25:49 2008
From: bronto at csd-bes.net (Rob Brandt)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:25:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Forbidden
In-Reply-To: <484CA894.1010002@sterndata.com>
References: <484C5D71.1070007@csd-bes.net> <484CA894.1010002@sterndata.com>
Message-ID: <484CB0CD.4060108@csd-bes.net>

Hey, maybe so.  I wasn't aware of it, but the packages
libselinux1 2.0.55-0ubuntu4 and
libsepol1 2.0.20-0ubuntu3
are installed.  I'll look in to it.

Rob

Steven Stern wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 06/08/2008 05:30 PM, Rob Brandt wrote:
> | I have a new installation I'm testing.  I'm on a fresh install of
> | ubuntu, mailman compiled from scratch.
> |
> | Mostly working now, but the mailing list public archives are show as
> | forbidden in my browser.  The data is actually there in the folders,
> | stored in private and symlinked to public.  I've run permissions check
> | and everything is OK (it says).  What's my trouble?  When I browse to
> | the pipermail folder it doesn't even list the public & private folders.
> |  Public (at least) is set to read by all.
> |
> | Rob
> 
> 
> 
> Is Ubuntu using SELinux?  If so, you'll probably need to use audit2allow
> to create aplicy to allow it to read the archives.
> 
> - --
> 
> ~  Steve
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAkhMqJQACgkQeERILVgMyvAM6ACdEE2I7W3EBpRy1zedYjo2C2bc
> jncAnRxdBoQNLyu06JnE7ZyuP2Dqpwgm
> =DDuT
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bronto%40csd-bes.net
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From bronto at csd-bes.net  Mon Jun  9 06:29:56 2008
From: bronto at csd-bes.net (Rob Brandt)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:29:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Forbidden
In-Reply-To: <484CB0CD.4060108@csd-bes.net>
References: <484C5D71.1070007@csd-bes.net> <484CA894.1010002@sterndata.com>
	<484CB0CD.4060108@csd-bes.net>
Message-ID: <484CB1C4.2060502@csd-bes.net>

although selinux itself isn't installed...

Rob Brandt wrote:
> Hey, maybe so.  I wasn't aware of it, but the packages
> libselinux1 2.0.55-0ubuntu4 and
> libsepol1 2.0.20-0ubuntu3
> are installed.  I'll look in to it.
> 
> Rob
> 
> Steven Stern wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 06/08/2008 05:30 PM, Rob Brandt wrote:
>> | I have a new installation I'm testing.  I'm on a fresh install of
>> | ubuntu, mailman compiled from scratch.
>> |
>> | Mostly working now, but the mailing list public archives are show as
>> | forbidden in my browser.  The data is actually there in the folders,
>> | stored in private and symlinked to public.  I've run permissions check
>> | and everything is OK (it says).  What's my trouble?  When I browse to
>> | the pipermail folder it doesn't even list the public & private folders.
>> |  Public (at least) is set to read by all.
>> |
>> | Rob
>>
>>
>>
>> Is Ubuntu using SELinux?  If so, you'll probably need to use audit2allow
>> to create aplicy to allow it to read the archives.
>>
>> - --
>>
>> ~  Steve
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>>
>> iEYEARECAAYFAkhMqJQACgkQeERILVgMyvAM6ACdEE2I7W3EBpRy1zedYjo2C2bc
>> jncAnRxdBoQNLyu06JnE7ZyuP2Dqpwgm
>> =DDuT
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: 
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bronto%40csd-bes.net
>>
>> Security Policy: 
>> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bronto%40csd-bes.net
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From sfantar at snurf.info  Mon Jun  9 10:16:51 2008
From: sfantar at snurf.info (sfantar at snurf.info)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:16:51 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing of the mail is not ok
Message-ID: <484CE6F3.9000708@snurf.info>

Hi,

I installed mailman. I created a mailing list to test if mailman works
fine or not. Well, mailman seems alsmot to work but there is just a
problem.

Let's assume, I have a mailing list : "test". And the mail used for this
mailing list is "test at lists.mydomain.tld", the members have to send
their mails at test at lists.mydomain.tld, sure, this email exists, but if
a member sends a mail to this address, the mail sticks with the folder
of the email (/var/spool/vmail/lists.mydomain.tld/test/new/), and so the
email is not distributed to the list.

I didn't find a solution, I think this  is a problem with the
configuration... Any ideas?

I'm running debian etch.

Regards,

-- 
http://snurf.info (http://snurf.info/sfantar.gpg)
? A book is like a garden carried in the pocket. ?

From rde at tavi.co.uk  Mon Jun  9 11:01:17 2008
From: rde at tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 10:01:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 52, Issue 17
Message-ID: <20080609090120.6DC55C0DF@kipling.tavi.co.uk>

** Reply to note from mailman-users-request at python.org Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:43:00 +0200

> Mostly working now, but the mailing list public archives are show as  
> forbidden in my browser.  The data is actually there in the folders,  
> stored in private and symlinked to public.  I've run permissions check  
> and everything is OK (it says).  What's my trouble?  When I browse to  
> the pipermail folder it doesn't even list the public & private folders.  
>   Public (at least) is set to read by all. 

Who owns the folders? They (and contents) need to be readable by the user
under which the web server runs. I was bitten by this last week...



Bob

From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Mon Jun  9 11:22:35 2008
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stefan_F=F6rster?=)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 11:22:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing of the mail is not ok
In-Reply-To: <484CE6F3.9000708@snurf.info>
References: <484CE6F3.9000708@snurf.info>
Message-ID: <37A13155-462E-4B8D-8B46-6D33C3F9B6FC@incertum.net>


Am 09.06.2008 um 10:16 schrieb sfantar at snurf.info:

> I installed mailman. I created a mailing list to test if mailman works
> fine or not. Well, mailman seems alsmot to work but there is just a
> problem.
>
> Let's assume, I have a mailing list : "test". And the mail used for  
> this
> mailing list is "test at lists.mydomain.tld", the members have to send
> their mails at test at lists.mydomain.tld, sure, this email exists, but  
> if
> a member sends a mail to this address, the mail sticks with the folder
> of the email (/var/spool/vmail/lists.mydomain.tld/test/new/), and so  
> the
> email is not distributed to the list.
>
> I didn't find a solution, I think this  is a problem with the
> configuration... Any ideas?


Obviously, you did not configure your MTA (Sendmail, Exim, Postfix) to  
forward those mails to Mailman. Instead, the mail is delivered to the  
correspondent maildir in /var/spool. Mailman integration for various  
MTAs is described here:

http://www.list.org/mailman-install/mail-server.html


Cheers
Stefan
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9
Mac OS X: Eating ~/.signature files since 2003.


From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Mon Jun  9 12:14:08 2008
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 15:44:08 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From status is coming incorrect from the
 msgcirculated to mailing list
In-Reply-To: <PC1830200806050731420406927ad040@msapiro>
Message-ID: <NMS208SEX2IWHZ03GG@inet01.in.undp.org>

Apologies for this mistake.

I will be more careful from next time.

Thanks and Regards,

Vinita Aggarwal

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 8:02 PM
To: Vinita Aggarwal; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] From status is coming incorrect from the
msgcirculated to mailing list

Vinita Aggarwal wrote:

>I need your help  ...


First you hijack an existing thread for a new topic. Then you realize
you neglected to change the Subject, so you re-post with a new
Subject, but still as a "reply" to your first post, so now you have
hijacked your hijack.

When posting a new topic, compose a NEW mail, do not reply to an
existing mail.

If you don't understand what I'm talking about, see these posts in the
list at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-June/thread.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Mon Jun  9 12:17:17 2008
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 15:47:17 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From status is coming incorrect from the
 msgcirculated to mailing list
In-Reply-To: <88CC97BF626F048C32BEECA6@srb.local>
Message-ID: <NUD008SIWS3KHZ02XC@inet01.in.undp.org>

Thanks for your reply and solution.

I will check this and revert back to you with its status.

Regards

Vinita Aggarwal


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Burling
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 3:39 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] From status is coming incorrect from the
msgcirculated to mailing list

--On June 5, 2008 3:30:51 PM +0530 Vinita Aggarwal 
<vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in> wrote:

> Now the problem is: when members check their email
> (vinita.aggarwal at gmail.com..etc) they see that From is "
> network-bounces at trrc-ten.org; on behalf of; Vinita Aggarwal
> [vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in]" which is incorrect.
>
>
>
> It should be From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in
>
>
>
>
>
> Please help me in identgying my mistake in configuring mailman or mailing
> lists settings.

To which I reply:

You haven't mis-configured the list; this is an Outlook problem.  See:

<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/From+field+displayed+by+Microsoft+Outlook>

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910
------------------------------------------------------
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Unsubscribe:
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Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Mon Jun  9 12:20:09 2008
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 15:50:09 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] URGENT Help required -suddenly some of the Umbrella
 lists is going unmoderated
Message-ID: <O1HC08SMAWOCHZ03ES@inet01.in.undp.org>

Dear All,

 

Please help

 

Thursday I created two cross posts (umbrealla lists) se-mf_se-drm and
se-wes_se-drm. When around 5:00 Resource team started posting the messages
in these lists, they found that messages are going without moderation. They
reported me. I checked the mailman seetings and found that "By default,
should new list member postings be moderated?" setting was set to No which I
corrected to yes.  So, till Friday evening everything was ok. Then suddenly,
on Friday evening, again only se-mf_se-drm resource team reported that it
their message again went moderated. I again checked the settings. But this
time, settings were correct.  To handle the emergency, we had to delete that
list. 

 

Now, today, again one cross post se-mch_aids-se message went unmoderated. We
had to remove all members from this list.

 

I request you to please give attention to this concern as there are many
cross posts lists are running and if same problem gets replicated there then
it will be a huge pronlem.

 

Please suggest how to handle this situation and sort out this.

Regards,

Vinita Aggarwal

 


From sfantar at snurf.info  Mon Jun  9 16:05:21 2008
From: sfantar at snurf.info (sfantar at snurf.info)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:05:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing of the mail is not ok
In-Reply-To: <37A13155-462E-4B8D-8B46-6D33C3F9B6FC@incertum.net>
References: <484CE6F3.9000708@snurf.info>
	<37A13155-462E-4B8D-8B46-6D33C3F9B6FC@incertum.net>
Message-ID: <484D38A1.6050009@snurf.info>

Stefan F?rster wrote:
>
> Am 09.06.2008 um 10:16 schrieb sfantar at snurf.info:
>
>> I installed mailman. I created a mailing list to test if mailman works
>> fine or not. Well, mailman seems alsmot to work but there is just a
>> problem.
>>
>> Let's assume, I have a mailing list : "test". And the mail used for this
>> mailing list is "test at lists.mydomain.tld", the members have to send
>> their mails at test at lists.mydomain.tld, sure, this email exists, but if
>> a member sends a mail to this address, the mail sticks with the folder
>> of the email (/var/spool/vmail/lists.mydomain.tld/test/new/), and so the
>> email is not distributed to the list.
>>
>> I didn't find a solution, I think this  is a problem with the
>> configuration... Any ideas?
>
>
> Obviously, you did not configure your MTA (Sendmail, Exim, Postfix) to
> forward those mails to Mailman. Instead, the mail is delivered to the
> correspondent maildir in /var/spool. Mailman integration for various
> MTAs is described here:
>
> http://www.list.org/mailman-install/mail-server.html
>
>
> Cheers
> Stefan

Oops, yeah, I've forgotten to configure my MTA. So, it's done, alsmot:

Jun  9 15:50:46 kaduma-hosting postfix/smtpd[28245]: warning: database
/etc/aliases.db is older than source file /etc/aliase

=> "postmap aliases" :

"[...]
Jun  9 16:01:32 kaduma-hosting postfix/postmap[29980]: warning: aliases,
line 27: record is in "key: value" format; is this an alias file?
Jun  9 16:01:32 kaduma-hosting postfix/postmap[29980]: warning: aliases,
line 30: record is in "key: value" format; is this an alias file?
Jun  9 16:01:32 kaduma-hosting postfix/postmap[29980]: warning: aliases,
line 31: record is in "key: value" format; is this an alias file?
Jun  9 16:01:32 kaduma-hosting postfix/postmap[29980]: warning: aliases,
line 32: record is in "key: value" format; is this an alias file?
Jun  9 16:01:32 kaduma-hosting postfix/postmap[29980]: warning: aliases,
line 33: record is in "key: value" format; is this an alias file?
[...]"||

Jun  9 15:50:46 kaduma-hosting postfix/smtpd[28245]: warning:
dict_nis_init: NIS domain name not set - NIS lookups disabled
Jun  9 15:50:46 kaduma-hosting postfix/smtpd[28245]: fatal: open
database /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db: No such file or directory

=> I've tried many solutions... but it's not fixed.


Jun  9 15:50:47 kaduma-hosting postfix/master[26280]: warning: process
/usr/lib/postfix/smtpd pid 28245 exit status 1
Jun  9 15:50:47 kaduma-hosting postfix/master[26280]: warning:
/usr/lib/postfix/smtpd: bad command startup -- throttling

...

Im my main.cf (for postfix) :

virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_aliases.cf,
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_aliases_mailbox.cf,
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_mailboxes.cf,
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

I added "OSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.mydomain.tld']" in
/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py

Thanks for your help !

-- 
http://snurf.info (http://snurf.info/sfantar.gpg)
? A book is like a garden carried in the pocket. ?


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun  9 16:28:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 07:28:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Forbidden
In-Reply-To: <484CA441.5010201@csd-bes.net>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806090728010765e39e6efe@msapiro>

Rob Brandt wrote:

>In any case, I changed it to:
>
><Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/>
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
>     Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
></Directory>
>
>restarted apache and it's still Forbidden.


And Bob Eager wrote (with a 'digest' subject):

>Who owns the folders? They (and contents) need to be readable by the user
>under which the web server runs. I was bitten by this last week...


Good point. In particular, the archives/private/ directory itself must
either be world searchable or owned by the web server user. A possible
mistake is to see the warning about o+x from check_perms and set o-x
without changing ownership per the installation manual. See the
warning box at <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.

And if that isn't the solution, please report what's in the apache
error_log for the forbidden access.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun  9 16:47:02 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 07:47:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing of the mail is not ok
In-Reply-To: <484D38A1.6050009@snurf.info>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806090747020968671b380a@msapiro>

sfantar at snurf.info wrote:
>
>Oops, yeah, I've forgotten to configure my MTA. So, it's done, alsmot:
>
[...]
>
>Im my main.cf (for postfix) :
>
>virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_aliases.cf,
>mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_aliases_mailbox.cf,
>hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases


The hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases entry belongs in alias_maps, not
in virtual_alias maps


>virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_mailboxes.cf,
>hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

and the hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman entry belongs in
virtual_alias_maps, not virtual_mailbox_maps.

>
>I added "OSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.mydomain.tld']" in
>/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py

I hope you mean POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS. Also, you want to be
sure you have lists.mydomain.tld in virtual_alias_domains in Postfix's
main.cf, and "MTA = 'Postfix'" in mm_cfg.py

After fixing the above, run Mailman's bin/genaliases, and 'postfix
reload'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Mon Jun  9 17:00:10 2008
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stefan_F=F6rster?=)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 17:00:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing of the mail is not ok
In-Reply-To: <484D38A1.6050009@snurf.info>
References: <484CE6F3.9000708@snurf.info>
	<37A13155-462E-4B8D-8B46-6D33C3F9B6FC@incertum.net>
	<484D38A1.6050009@snurf.info>
Message-ID: <5BB30CD9-47B9-4DB6-9F23-4F23D7F56332@incertum.net>


Am 09.06.2008 um 16:05 schrieb sfantar at snurf.info:

> Stefan F?rster wrote:
>>
>> Am 09.06.2008 um 10:16 schrieb sfantar at snurf.info:
>>
>>> I installed mailman. I created a mailing list to test if mailman  
>>> works
>>> fine or not. Well, mailman seems alsmot to work but there is just a
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Let's assume, I have a mailing list : "test". And the mail used  
>>> for this
>>> mailing list is "test at lists.mydomain.tld", the members have to send
>>> their mails at test at lists.mydomain.tld, sure, this email exists,  
>>> but if
>>> a member sends a mail to this address, the mail sticks with the  
>>> folder
>>> of the email (/var/spool/vmail/lists.mydomain.tld/test/new/), and  
>>> so the
>>> email is not distributed to the list.
>>>
>>> I didn't find a solution, I think this  is a problem with the
>>> configuration... Any ideas?
>>
>>
>> Obviously, you did not configure your MTA (Sendmail, Exim, Postfix)  
>> to
>> forward those mails to Mailman. Instead, the mail is delivered to the
>> correspondent maildir in /var/spool. Mailman integration for various
>> MTAs is described here:
>>
>> http://www.list.org/mailman-install/mail-server.html
>>
>
> Oops, yeah, I've forgotten to configure my MTA. So, it's done, alsmot:
>
> Jun  9 15:50:46 kaduma-hosting postfix/smtpd[28245]: warning: database
> /etc/aliases.db is older than source file /etc/aliase
>
> => "postmap aliases" :
>
> "[...]
> Jun  9 16:01:32 kaduma-hosting postfix/postmap[29980]: warning:  
> aliases,
> line 27: record is in "key: value" format; is this an alias file?
> Jun  9 16:01:32 kaduma-hosting postfix/postmap[29980]: warning:  
> aliases,
> line 30: record is in "key: value" format; is this an alias file?
> Jun  9 16:01:32 kaduma-hosting postfix/postmap[29980]: warning:  
> aliases,
> line 31: record is in "key: value" format; is this an alias file?
> Jun  9 16:01:32 kaduma-hosting postfix/postmap[29980]: warning:  
> aliases,
> line 32: record is in "key: value" format; is this an alias file?
> Jun  9 16:01:32 kaduma-hosting postfix/postmap[29980]: warning:  
> aliases,
> line 33: record is in "key: value" format; is this an alias file?
> [...]"||

The correct command to create a hash file out of a file that is (a)  
listed in Postfix's "alias_database" setting is to execute the command  
"newaliases". "postmap" OTOH doesn't know how to deal with files  
containing "key: value" pairs (note the ":").

> Jun  9 15:50:46 kaduma-hosting postfix/smtpd[28245]: warning:
> dict_nis_init: NIS domain name not set - NIS lookups disabled
> Jun  9 15:50:46 kaduma-hosting postfix/smtpd[28245]: fatal: open
> database /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db: No such file or  
> directory
>
> => I've tried many solutions... but it's not fixed.

For the first warning, try to remove the "nis:mail.aliases" entry in  
"alias_maps". Execute "postconf alias_maps" to see the current  
setting ,then explicitely set it in a way that doesn't include  
"nis:mail.aliases".

For the second warning you obviously have to create the "database"  
file for "/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman". See below.


> Im my main.cf (for postfix) :
>
> virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_aliases.cf,
> mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_aliases_mailbox.cf,
> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
> virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_mailboxes.cf,
> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

It's just plain wrong to reference "/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual- 
mailman" in virtual_mailbox_maps. Remove it.

Execute "postmap /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman". Inspect "/var/ 
lib/mailman/data/aliases". If this is an alias file and you need the  
entries, include it in "alias_maps" and "alias_database". Execute  
"newaliases" if needed. If you don't need "/var/lib/mailman/data/ 
aliases", remove any references to it. Restart Postfix.


Cheers
Stefab
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9
Mac OS X: Almost perfect. Almost.



From sfantar at snurf.info  Mon Jun  9 17:26:57 2008
From: sfantar at snurf.info (sfantar at snurf.info)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:26:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing of the mail is not ok
In-Reply-To: <5BB30CD9-47B9-4DB6-9F23-4F23D7F56332@incertum.net>
References: <484CE6F3.9000708@snurf.info>
	<37A13155-462E-4B8D-8B46-6D33C3F9B6FC@incertum.net>
	<484D38A1.6050009@snurf.info>
	<5BB30CD9-47B9-4DB6-9F23-4F23D7F56332@incertum.net>
Message-ID: <484D4BC1.6050809@snurf.info>

Stefan F?rster wrote:
>
> The correct command to create a hash file out of a file that is (a)
> listed in Postfix's "alias_database" setting is to execute the command
> "newaliases". "postmap" OTOH doesn't know how to deal with files
> containing "key: value" pairs (note the ":").
>

Ok, so I executed newaliases.

>> Jun  9 15:50:46 kaduma-hosting postfix/smtpd[28245]: warning:
>> dict_nis_init: NIS domain name not set - NIS lookups disabled
>> Jun  9 15:50:46 kaduma-hosting postfix/smtpd[28245]: fatal: open
>> database /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db: No such file or
>> directory
>>
>> => I've tried many solutions... but it's not fixed.
>
> For the first warning, try to remove the "nis:mail.aliases" entry in
> "alias_maps". Execute "postconf alias_maps" to see the current setting
> ,then explicitely set it in a way that doesn't include
> "nis:mail.aliases".
# postconf alias_maps
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

There isn't nis:mail.aliases in "alias_maps".

>
> For the second warning you obviously have to create the "database"
> file for "/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman". See below.
>
>
>> Im my main.cf (for postfix) :
>>
>> virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_aliases.cf,
>> mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_aliases_mailbox.cf,
>> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>> virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_mailboxes.cf,
>> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>
> It's just plain wrong to reference
> "/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman" in virtual_mailbox_maps.
> Remove it.
>
> Execute "postmap /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman". 

postmap: fatal: open /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman: No such file
or directory

Grr :/

> Inspect "/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases". If this is an alias file and
> you need the entries, include it in "alias_maps" and "alias_database".
> Execute "newaliases" if needed. If you don't need
> "/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases", remove any references to it. Restart
> Postfix.
>
>



> Cheers
> Stefab

Best regards,

-- 
http://snurf.info (http://snurf.info/sfantar.gpg)
? A book is like a garden carried in the pocket. ?


From sfantar at snurf.info  Mon Jun  9 17:31:06 2008
From: sfantar at snurf.info (sfantar at snurf.info)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:31:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing of the mail is not ok
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806090747020968671b380a@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200806090747020968671b380a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <484D4CBA.8090204@snurf.info>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> sfantar at snurf.info wrote:
>   
>> Oops, yeah, I've forgotten to configure my MTA. So, it's done, alsmot:
>>
>>     
> [...]
>   
>> Im my main.cf (for postfix) :
>>
>> virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_aliases.cf,
>> mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_aliases_mailbox.cf,
>> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>>     
>
>
> The hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases entry belongs in alias_maps, not
> in virtual_alias maps
>
>
>   
>> virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_mailboxes.cf,
>> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>>     
>
> and the hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman entry belongs in
> virtual_alias_maps, not virtual_mailbox_maps.
>
>   
>> I added "OSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.mydomain.tld']" in
>> /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py
>>     
>
> I hope you mean POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS. 
Yes, of course. ;)


> Also, you want to be
> sure you have lists.mydomain.tld in virtual_alias_domains in Postfix's
> main.cf, and "MTA = 'Postfix'" in mm_cfg.py
>   
Corrected.

> After fixing the above, run Mailman's bin/genaliases, and 'postfix
> reload'.
>
>   
Regards,

-- 
http://snurf.info (http://snurf.info/sfantar.gpg)
? A book is like a garden carried in the pocket. ?


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun  9 18:43:27 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 09:43:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] URGENT Help required -suddenly some of the
	Umbrellalists is going unmoderated
In-Reply-To: <O1HC08SMAWOCHZ03ES@inet01.in.undp.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806090943270281c25f6ef4@msapiro>

Vinita Aggarwal wrote:
>
>Thursday I created two cross posts (umbrealla lists) se-mf_se-drm and
>se-wes_se-drm. When around 5:00 Resource team started posting the messages
>in these lists, they found that messages are going without moderation.


This is almost certainly a list configuration issue. We would need more
information to know what the problem is. Information such as what
lists are members of what other lists and for the superordinate and
subordinate lists, what are the settings for accept_these_nonmembers
and generic_nonmember_action. Also, have you changed
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER or SENDER_HEADERS in mm_cfg.py and what Mailman
version is this?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bronto at csd-bes.net  Mon Jun  9 19:05:47 2008
From: bronto at csd-bes.net (Rob Brandt)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:05:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Forbidden
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806090728010765e39e6efe@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200806090728010765e39e6efe@msapiro>
Message-ID: <484D62EB.8090709@csd-bes.net>

Yes that did it!  I had all the folders set correctly *except* for the 
/private folder itself.  Changing that from root to www-data did it for me.

Thanks!

Rob


Mark Sapiro wrote, On 6/9/2008 7:28 AM:
> Rob Brandt wrote:
> 
>> In any case, I changed it to:
>>
>> <Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/>
>>     Order allow,deny
>>     Allow from all
>>     Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
>> </Directory>
>>
>> restarted apache and it's still Forbidden.
> 
> 
> And Bob Eager wrote (with a 'digest' subject):
> 
>> Who owns the folders? They (and contents) need to be readable by the user
>> under which the web server runs. I was bitten by this last week...
> 
> 
> Good point. In particular, the archives/private/ directory itself must
> either be world searchable or owned by the web server user. A possible
> mistake is to see the warning about o+x from check_perms and set o-x
> without changing ownership per the installation manual. See the
> warning box at <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.
> 
> And if that isn't the solution, please report what's in the apache
> error_log for the forbidden access.
> 


From terri at zone12.com  Mon Jun  9 22:35:02 2008
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 16:35:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatically creating short URL's?
In-Reply-To: <4849E0B8.5050102@midrange.com>
References: <4849E0B8.5050102@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <241A214C-1347-457C-A23E-749BE4EFA8A5@zone12.com>

On 6-Jun-08, at 9:13 PM, David Gibbs wrote:
> Has anyone considered the idea of using one of the URL shortening
> services (tinyurl.com, etc) to automatically process URI's in messages
> processed by mailman?
>
> When people on my lists post URL's, they are quite often long and
> unwieldy ... it would be nice if I could automatically translate those
> long URI's into shorter versions.

On a related note, if those really long FAQ urls from the Mailman  
wiki are problematic, the wiki actually does generate short URLs for  
posting to lists.  (Click on "info" from the page to get the short  
link.)

  Terri


From guilherme.funchal at gmail.com  Tue Jun 10 18:32:53 2008
From: guilherme.funchal at gmail.com (Guilherme Funchal)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 13:32:53 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] msg_header
Message-ID: <e368268e0806100932v5a231ffevbc51940dfcfcd9f6@mail.gmail.com>

I'm send mail message with outlook  to mailman list with msg_header setting,
but not is visible, if I'm using other email client(Thunderbird) is visible.


How do this possible ?


Regards
-- 
"Um homem de honra ? aquele que vive segundo as regras e, se for necess?rio,
morre por elas. "
==============================
Guilherme Funchal da Silva .`.
LPI Level 2 Certification

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 10 19:25:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:25:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] msg_header
In-Reply-To: <e368268e0806100932v5a231ffevbc51940dfcfcd9f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806101025390046abdb1515@msapiro>

Guilherme Funchal wrote:

>I'm send mail message with outlook  to mailman list with msg_header setting,
>but not is visible, if I'm using other email client(Thunderbird) is visible.


My best guess is that Outlook is sending a multipart/alternative (or
html only) message and msg_header is added as a separate mime part
whereas Thunderbird is sending a plain text message and msg_header is
added inline. See <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9> for more info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From guilherme.funchal at gmail.com  Wed Jun 11 16:37:29 2008
From: guilherme.funchal at gmail.com (Guilherme Funchal)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:37:29 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] msg_header
Message-ID: <e368268e0806110737s4668c8fbs4757f4996aa63492@mail.gmail.com>

I need use* msg_header setting , if I send message from Outlook this setting
not show in list message.

How do this ?

My settings :
**include_rfc2369_headers = 1
**include_list_post_header=1**filter_content=0
**msg_header="my message"
*
*

regards
*--
"Um homem de honra ? aquele que vive segundo as regras e, se for necess?rio,
morre por elas. "
==============================
Guilherme Funchal da Silva .`.
LPI Level 2 Certification

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 11 18:09:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:09:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] msg_header
In-Reply-To: <e368268e0806110737s4668c8fbs4757f4996aa63492@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806110909240078f63028a6@msapiro>

Guilherme Funchal wrote:

>I need use* msg_header setting , if I send message from Outlook this setting
>not show in list message.
>
>How do this ?
>
>My settings :
>**include_rfc2369_headers = 1
>**include_list_post_header=1
>**filter_content=0
>**msg_header="my message"

First, be sure you are seeing this behavior on messages received
somewhere other than gmail. See <http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9> for why.

If you enable content filtering and accept only text/plain, that may or
may not help depending on what the exact issue is. Settings would be
along the lines of

filter_content - Yes
filter_mime_types - empty
pass_mime_types -
    multipart
    message/rfc822
    text/plain
collapse_alternatives - Yes

If this doesn't work or is not acceptable, then we need to see the
results of the following test to understand what the problem is.

Test:
  Send a short message with no private information to the list with a
Bcc: to yourself (at a non gmail address). Post the raw source of the
both Bcc: message and the message as received from the list back to
this list. It's OK to edit any email addresses - what we really need
to see are the Content-Type headers of the message and all the body
parts.

How you view the raw source depends on your mail client. In
Thunderbird, for example, just select the message and View -> Message
Source.

With MS Outlook, you need to set something in the registry before
downloading the message. See
<http://www.outlook-tips.net/howto/view_source.htm>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From guilherme.funchal at gmail.com  Wed Jun 11 18:38:03 2008
From: guilherme.funchal at gmail.com (Guilherme Funchal)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:38:03 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  msg_header
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008061109291908901356f14d@msapiro>
References: <e368268e0806110926g7f1cdbf7v9af8dd3b96c75324@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC18702008061109291908901356f14d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e368268e0806110938v4d86c7f7ra7728d53abde30f0@mail.gmail.com>

Ok...its working...but if attach jpg image is not see in message list...


-- 
"Um homem de honra ? aquele que vive segundo as regras e, se for necess?rio,
morre por elas. "
==============================
Guilherme Funchal da Silva .`.
LPI Level 2 Certification

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 11 18:57:27 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:57:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  msg_header
In-Reply-To: <e368268e0806110938v4d86c7f7ra7728d53abde30f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806110957270312c2965813@msapiro>

Guilherme Funchal wrote:

>Ok...its working...but if attach jpg image is not see in message list...


If you want to pass various attachments, try the following content
filtering settings.

filter_content - Yes
filter_mime_types - empty
pass_mime_types - empty
collapse_alternatives - Yes

This will accept everything (except what's in
filter_filename_extensions), but will still collapse
multipart/alternative to the first part only

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From guilherme.funchal at gmail.com  Wed Jun 11 19:17:33 2008
From: guilherme.funchal at gmail.com (Guilherme Funchal)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:17:33 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: msg_header
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806110957270312c2965813@msapiro>
References: <e368268e0806110938v4d86c7f7ra7728d53abde30f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1870200806110957270312c2965813@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e368268e0806111017p658fac5dh9148eb4876cb58a5@mail.gmail.com>

OK..but if message is html (create by outlook) this message attach this text
in original mail...is it correct ?

2008/6/11 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:

> Guilherme Funchal wrote:
>
> >Ok...its working...but if attach jpg image is not see in message list...
>
>
> If you want to pass various attachments, try the following content
> filtering settings.
>
> filter_content - Yes
> filter_mime_types - empty
> pass_mime_types - empty
> collapse_alternatives - Yes
>
> This will accept everything (except what's in
> filter_filename_extensions), but will still collapse
> multipart/alternative to the first part only
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
"Um homem de honra ? aquele que vive segundo as regras e, se for necess?rio,
morre por elas. "
==============================
Guilherme Funchal da Silva .`.
LPI Level 2 Certification

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 11 23:26:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:26:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: msg_header
In-Reply-To: <e368268e0806111017p658fac5dh9148eb4876cb58a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806111426500703a7208071@msapiro>

Guilherme Funchal wrote:
>
>OK..but if message is html (create by outlook) this message attach this text
>in original mail...is it correct ?


I don't understand the question.

You said that if you used the settings I gave you that removed all HTML
parts, that it worked except that attachments got stripped.

That must mean there was a text/plain alternative in the message, so
the settings below will still remove the HTML alternative and replace
the multipart/alternative part with the text/plain part.

If this isn't working for you, we have to see the MIME structure of the
messages that don't work in order to understand what the problem is.


>2008/6/11 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
>
>> Guilherme Funchal wrote:
>>
>> >Ok...its working...but if attach jpg image is not see in message list...
>>
>>
>> If you want to pass various attachments, try the following content
>> filtering settings.
>>
>> filter_content - Yes
>> filter_mime_types - empty
>> pass_mime_types - empty
>> collapse_alternatives - Yes
>>
>> This will accept everything (except what's in
>> filter_filename_extensions), but will still collapse
>> multipart/alternative to the first part only

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From washakie at gmail.com  Thu Jun 12 03:38:54 2008
From: washakie at gmail.com (washakie)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:38:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  procmail before mailman
Message-ID: <17789754.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hello,

I'm trying to follow this recipe:
http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/How+do+I+filter+incoming+mail+before+it+hits+mailman+%28e.g.%2C+using+procmail%29

But I'm not terribly comfortable editing the database file - as it
explicitly tells you NOT to:
"YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE
# unless you know what you're doing, and can keep the two files properly
# in sync.  If you screw it up, you're on your own."

To be honest, I'm not even entirely sure what the 'TWO' files are, since I
rarely have touched mailman after I initially set it up (maybe it runs too
well :thinking:)

So if someone could possibly expand on that WIKI post, ideally providing
another method (perhaps using postfix's virtual tables or something??) where
I could get procmail to intercept, that would be great.

Thanks!!
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/procmail-before-mailman-tp17789754p17789754.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From washakie at gmail.com  Thu Jun 12 08:54:21 2008
From: washakie at gmail.com (washakie)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:54:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] procmail before mailman - attempts.
In-Reply-To: <17789754.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <17789754.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <17793661.post@talk.nabble.com>




washakie wrote:
> 
> To be honest, I'm not even entirely sure what the 'TWO' files are, since I
> rarely have touched mailman after I initially set it up...
> 

Ok, I read a little closer, and understand that it is the aliases and
aliases.db (missed that in my first glance of the warning).

However, I've tried the above and it is not working. My steps:
1) Edit file to fit my case
2) postalias aliases
3) create the .procmailrc file, giving it permissions for mailman (I'm
pretty sure my user is mailman - how do I check this?)

I get a bounce from Mailman saying it isn't being accepted for delivery.

Another approach:

1) edit virtual to create an alias where for list at mydomain.com my virtual
file has the line:
list-bypass at mydomain.com list

-the whole reason I'm having this problem is because I foolishly named my
list the same as a user (it hasn't been a big deal, but I now want to use
procmail to run scripts via mail, and that user has to be the one running
them).

-the virtual approach seemed to accomplish something, but I now get the
following message:

This is the mail system at host mydomain.com.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

                  The mail system

<list-bypass at mydomain.com>: can't create user output file

Final-Recipient: rfc822; list-bypass at mydomain.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822;list-bypass at mydomain.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.2.0
Diagnostic-Code: x-unix; can't create user output file


---------- Forwarded message ----------
*snip*

Hope someone has some ideas!

Thanks!
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/procmail-before-mailman-tp17789754p17793661.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From enrico.pulimeno at gmail.com  Thu Jun 12 09:46:27 2008
From: enrico.pulimeno at gmail.com (enrico pulimeno)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:46:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] auto deleting list subscriber
Message-ID: <a76d3eee0806120046h4fb53d8cne4ed6065a34a5ce1@mail.gmail.com>

hello,
recently mailman unsubscribe automatically some member of the list.
how do I stop these actions?
I have already checked the option "notifies member cancellation from the
list to administrator", but arrive me only the unsubscribe messages, without
first not one notification.

thanks

From washakie at gmail.com  Thu Jun 12 10:43:34 2008
From: washakie at gmail.com (washakie)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 01:43:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] procmail before mailman- closer!
In-Reply-To: <17789754.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <17789754.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <17795100.post@talk.nabble.com>


Getting closer...

I've managed to get the aliases file set to forward to procmail using this
approach:
# STANZA START: listname
# CREATED: Tue Jul 17 12:37:32 2007
listname:             "|/usr/bin/procmail -m
/etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc post listname"

Then I have a rc file in /etc/procmailrc and the filter seems to work,
however, it isn't setting the correct 'privileges'. The rc file is owned by
the user=listname and here is the contents:

[root at machine]# ll /etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc
-rw-r--r-- 1 listname root 468 Jun 12 10:28
/etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc
[root at machine]# cat /etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc
# .procmailrc
# routes incoming mail to appropriate mailboxes
PATH=/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin
MAILDIR=/etc/procmailrcs
SHELL=/bin/sh
LOGNAME=procmail.log
LOGFILE=$HOME
VERBOSE=yes

MMCOMMAND=$1
MMLIST=$2

#first filter checks subject, if IGNORE updates file in user=listname home
directory
:0 f
* ^Subject:.*IGNORE*
| echo "You received a message at" `date` >> /home/listname/received_mail

# Accept all the rest to your default mailman
:0
|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman $MMCOMMAND $MMLIST

I get the following ERROR:

<listname at machine>: can't create user output file. Command output:
   procmail: Denying special privileges for
   "/etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc" procmail: Suspicious rcfile
   "/etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc" procmail: Couldn't read
   "/etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc"

Final-Recipient: rfc822; listname at machine
Original-Recipient: rfc822;listname at machine
Action: failed
Status: 5.2.0
Diagnostic-Code: x-unix; procmail: Denying special privileges for
   "/etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc" procmail: Suspicious rcfile
   "/etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc" procmail: Couldn't read
   "/etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc"
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/procmail-before-mailman-tp17789754p17795100.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Jun 12 17:14:16 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:14:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] auto deleting list subscriber
In-Reply-To: <a76d3eee0806120046h4fb53d8cne4ed6065a34a5ce1@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <a76d3eee0806120046h4fb53d8cne4ed6065a34a5ce1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200806121513.m5CFCw6D013400@newbox.eroded.org>

enrico pulimeno sent the message below at 00:46 6/12/2008:
>hello,
>recently mailman unsubscribe automatically some member of the list.
>how do I stop these actions?
>I have already checked the option "notifies member cancellation from the
>list to administrator", but arrive me only the unsubscribe messages, without
>first not one notification.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

As far as I know, the only reason mailman will unsubscribe somebody 
automatically is if the e-mail address has exceeded the bounce threshold.

If an address has had a significant number of failures (one per day 
until bounce threshold is met), the address will be removed from the list.

This is something you probably do not want to disable, it will get 
you flagged as a spammer if you continue to send to addresses that 
are no longer valid at a number of domains (especially from the big 
guys like AOL, Yahoo, gmail, etc.)



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From jm2 at jensmeyer.de  Thu Jun 12 17:02:14 2008
From: jm2 at jensmeyer.de (Jens Meyer)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:02:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and virtual mailhosting (postfix)
Message-ID: <48513A76.4050108@jensmeyer.de>

Hello!

After several researches with Google and archives of mailinglists please 
allow me to contact you via this mailinglist.

Our postfix-mailserver hosts several domains (virtual mailhosting, 
postfix/mysql) and "mailman".

The "primary domain" myserver.de is a virtualized domain also. So this 
domain is not listed in mydestination:
-->
myhostname = mail.myserver.de
mydomain   = myserver.de
myorigin   = $mydomain

mydestination = $myhostname, localhost
<--

As far as I understand mailman forwards all emails to the "primary 
domain" (mydomain) and mailman is only working if I add $mydomain to 
mydestination.

But when doing this there are warnings from postfix that it is not 
allowed to list the domain in the virtual aliases (mysql-database) and 
in relay_domains.

Is there any possiblity to configure mailman to forward the emails in 
./data/virtual-mailman not to "testliste2 at myserver.de" but to 
"testliste2 at mail.myserver.de"?

My actual config is:
-->
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.myserver.de'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.myserver.de'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.myserver.de']
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
<--

Or am I missing an important point?

Kind regards,

      Jens



From admin at columbushash.com  Thu Jun 12 21:16:04 2008
From: admin at columbushash.com (Columbus Hash House Harriers)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:16:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need Configuration Help: Non-Members/Members Send
	filtering are Off/Accept,
	but email are still pending administrative approval
Message-ID: <6a1a3060806121216n6c098dd5u475206c49a902e86@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

This is a very quick question and hopefully you can assist me.

Am I completely missing something with Privacy Option Setting?

So I have search through mailman FAQs, the Net, some third party forums, and
even though solution seems to be obvious it doesn't work for my list:

Setup:
I have mailing list x at mydomain.com

I have a member subscribed as a at hisdomain.com
His "mod" flag is set to 0 (Unchecked)

*My Settings:*
Privacy Options >> Send Filters >> Member filters:
Should new list member posting be moderated? set to *No
*Action to take when moderated member posts to the list: set to *Hold

*Privacy Options >> Send Filters >> Non-member filter:
Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is
defined: set to *Accept

*Everything else is set for default.

Anytime either a at hisdomain.com (member) or b at guestdomain.com (non-member)
sends post to x at mydomain.com (list) a message, it's held for moderators
approval.

Why?

Is there option I am completely missing?

P.S. Just for trouble shooting reasons, I played with options a little bit:

I've tried setting Member Filter >> Moderated to *Yes *, and tried for
member's flag both checked and unchecked. Neither works. In all variance of
settings, it requires Moderator's approval. I even set to Accept Messages
from NON members, and it still doesn't let me send without moderators
approval.

can you please assist, or point me in the right direction?

Thank you very much
Michael

*
*

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 13 06:03:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:03:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need Configuration Help: Non-Members/Members
	Sendfiltering are Off/Accept,
	but email are still pending administrative approval
In-Reply-To: <6a1a3060806121216n6c098dd5u475206c49a902e86@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061221032307180920aae5@msapiro>

Columbus Hash House Harrierswrote:
>
>Anytime either a at hisdomain.com (member) or b at guestdomain.com (non-member)
>sends post to x at mydomain.com (list) a message, it's held for moderators
>approval.
>
>Why?


That's my question.

The held message notice, Mailman's vette log and the admindb
(moderator's) web interface all give the reason why the post was held.
What is it?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carloswill at gmail.com  Fri Jun 13 19:18:32 2008
From: carloswill at gmail.com (Carlos Williams)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:18:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Permissions
Message-ID: <d80f793f0806131018j6a031a25sd69aeff47b92a2bc@mail.gmail.com>

I was looking today at /var/lib/mailman/lists and happened to notice
the owner seems to vary. It appears that some older lists are owner by
mailman:mailman and lists that I have recently created are owner by
root:mailman.

Here is what I see on my server:

drwxrwsr-x  2 root    mailman 4096 Jun 13 13:02 lt2_support_thread
drwxrwsr-x  2 root    mailman 4096 Jun 13 12:00 lvc_i2
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Jun 13 12:00 mailman
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Jun 13 12:00 ngit
drwxrwsr-x  2 root    mailman 4096 Jun 13 12:00 performancewg
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Jun 13 12:00 perf_results
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Jun 13 12:00 ptr_review_board
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Jun 13 12:00 risk_management_wg
drwxrwsr-x  2 root    mailman 4096 Jun 13 12:00 scrum
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Jun 13 12:57 services_ipt
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Jun 13 12:00 stm_ipt
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Jun 13 12:00 syscon_thread
drwxrwsr-x  2 root    mailman 4096 Jun 13 13:11 zoo

Now I know all the lists I create are done in CLI mode using the
"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/.newlist" script which walks me through the
process easily.

My question here is does it matter  that some are owned by mailman and
others by root and if so, how do I generate new lists properly as
mailman:mailman?

Thanks for any support and or info! I am using Linux RHEL 4.6 and
mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.6.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 13 19:39:44 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:39:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Permissions
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0806131018j6a031a25sd69aeff47b92a2bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020080613103944032867839ff4@msapiro>

Carlos Williams wrote:

>I was looking today at /var/lib/mailman/lists and happened to notice
>the owner seems to vary. It appears that some older lists are owner by
>mailman:mailman and lists that I have recently created are owner by
>root:mailman.
>
<snip>
>
>Now I know all the lists I create are done in CLI mode using the
>"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/.newlist" script which walks me through the
>process easily.
>
>My question here is does it matter  that some are owned by mailman and
>others by root and if so, how do I generate new lists properly as
>mailman:mailman?


It doesn't matter what the owner is. Only the group is important and as
long as the group is the Mailman group ('mailman' in your case), the
owner can be anything.

If you create a list as root, the owner will be root. If you create a
list as mailman, either via logging in as mailman or via su or sudo as
mailman, then the owner will be mailman. If you create a list via the
web create script, the owner will be the web server user, but none of
this is significant. Only the group is important.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 13 19:59:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:59:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] procmail before mailman- closer!
In-Reply-To: <17795100.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061310595809061481f544@msapiro>

washakie wrote:
>
>Then I have a rc file in /etc/procmailrc and the filter seems to work,
>however, it isn't setting the correct 'privileges'. The rc file is owned by
>the user=listname and here is the contents:
>
>[root at machine]# ll /etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc
>-rw-r--r-- 1 listname root 468 Jun 12 10:28

<snip>

>I get the following ERROR:
>
><listname at machine>: can't create user output file. Command output:
>   procmail: Denying special privileges for
>   "/etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc" procmail: Suspicious rcfile
>   "/etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc" procmail: Couldn't read
>   "/etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc"


Procmail doesn't like something about
/etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc. I'm only guessing, but try
removing world read and making the group other than root.

Also see <http://wiki.list.org/x/tYA9> because if "listname's" group is
not the --with-mail-gid group compiled into
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman, you'll get a group mismatch error next.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From washakie at gmail.com  Fri Jun 13 20:13:09 2008
From: washakie at gmail.com (washakie)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:13:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] procmail before mailman- closer!
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008061310595809061481f544@msapiro>
References: <17789754.post@talk.nabble.com> <17795100.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<PC18702008061310595809061481f544@msapiro>
Message-ID: <17829328.post@talk.nabble.com>




Mark Sapiro-3 wrote:
> 
> 
> Procmail doesn't like something about
> /etc/procmailrcs/listname.procmailrc. I'm only guessing, but try
> removing world read and making the group other than root.
> 
> Also see <http://wiki.list.org/x/tYA9> because if "listname's" group is
> not the --with-mail-gid group compiled into
> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman, you'll get a group mismatch error next.
> 
> 

Thanks. How do I determine what --with-mail-gid is set? I assume it's
mailman, as that is the default correct? Also, if I look at the the
ownership of the lists it's:
[root at machine lists]# ll
total 52
drwxrwsr-x 2 apache mailman 4096 Jun 13 12:00 listname
drwxrwsr-x 3 apache mailman 4096 Jun 13 12:00 myotherlist
drwxrwsr-x 2 root   mailman 4096 Jun 13 12:00 mailman

Thanks,
john
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/procmail-before-mailman-tp17789754p17829328.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 13 20:24:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:24:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and virtual mailhosting (postfix)
In-Reply-To: <48513A76.4050108@jensmeyer.de>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061311245804531481f37f@msapiro>

Jens Meyer wrote:
>
>Our postfix-mailserver hosts several domains (virtual mailhosting, 
>postfix/mysql) and "mailman".
>
>The "primary domain" myserver.de is a virtualized domain also. So this 
>domain is not listed in mydestination:
>-->
>myhostname = mail.myserver.de
>mydomain   = myserver.de
>myorigin   = $mydomain
>
>mydestination = $myhostname, localhost
><--
>
>As far as I understand mailman forwards all emails to the "primary 
>domain" (mydomain) and mailman is only working if I add $mydomain to 
>mydestination.


This is the assumption of Mailman/Postfix integration.


>But when doing this there are warnings from postfix that it is not 
>allowed to list the domain in the virtual aliases (mysql-database) and 
>in relay_domains.
>
>Is there any possiblity to configure mailman to forward the emails in 
>./data/virtual-mailman not to "testliste2 at myserver.de" but to 
>"testliste2 at mail.myserver.de"?
>
>My actual config is:
>-->
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.myserver.de'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.myserver.de'
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
>
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.myserver.de']
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
><--


I don't understand your configuration. The above Mailman config items
say that lists.myserver.de is a postfix virtual domain and that
Mailman lists whose host_name is lists.myserver.de will get
virtual_mailman entries of the form

testliste2 at lists.myserver.de   testliste2

(i.e. map the virtual domain address 'testliste2 at lists.myserver.de' to
local name 'testliste2' where it will be handled by the 'testliste2:'
entry in aliases).  However, your setting of DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST =
'mail.myserver.de' says lists will be created with a host_name of
'mail.myserver.de', so no virtual_mailman entries will be created at
all.

Something is clearly wrong. From your description, I think if you change

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.myserver.de']

to

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['mail.myserver.de']

And run Mailman's bin/genaliases, you will get what you want. I.e., you
will get virtual_mailman with entries like

testliste2 at mail.myserver.de   testliste2

which will map the virtual domain list address
'testliste2 at mail.myserver.de[' to the local name 'testliste2' which
will be delivered to Mailman according to the 'testliste2' alias in
Mailman's data/aliases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 13 20:40:38 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:40:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] procmail before mailman- closer!
In-Reply-To: <17829328.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061311403800461481f1d4@msapiro>

washakie wrote:
>
>Thanks. How do I determine what --with-mail-gid is set? I assume it's
>mailman, as that is the default correct?


It appears from clues in your previous posts that your MTA is Postfix.
If this is the case, the 'mail group' is the group of the owner of
Mailman's data/aliases.db.

In any case, if you ran configure, or if your packager was kind enough
to provide you with the package's config.log, you'll find the
configure options there. If all else fails, the expected group is in
the error message from the wrapper if you get it wrong (you can just
run '/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post x' as a non-mailman,
unprivileged user to see the error message).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carloswill at gmail.com  Fri Jun 13 20:53:35 2008
From: carloswill at gmail.com (Carlos Williams)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:53:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Diff Two Mailman Paths?
Message-ID: <d80f793f0806131153y6eb1ad9ewb8e3e4872c924c1@mail.gmail.com>

I am moving mailman from one server to another server (not changing
the domain) and noticed the instructions here:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055208.html

The instructions show to make sure you copy both the contents of
/var/lib/mailman/lists to the new server and also
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/.

My question is when looking at "/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/" I
notice that there are several old and deleted or no longer functioning
lists in  this directory. Is there nothing that cleans up this path
when you create a test list and then remove it using the script
provided in /usr/lib/mailman/bin?

I just don't like a lot of clutter and want this as clean as possible.

Thanks for any info and help!

-- 
Man your battle stations...

From washakie at gmail.com  Fri Jun 13 20:54:19 2008
From: washakie at gmail.com (washakie)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:54:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] procmail before mailman- closer!
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008061311403800461481f1d4@msapiro>
References: <17789754.post@talk.nabble.com> <17795100.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<PC18702008061310595809061481f544@msapiro>
	<17829328.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<PC18702008061311403800461481f1d4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <17829959.post@talk.nabble.com>




Mark Sapiro-3 wrote:
> 
> 
> In any case, if you ran configure, or if your packager was kind enough
> to provide you with the package's config.log, you'll find the
> configure options there. If all else fails, the expected group is in
> the error message from the wrapper if you get it wrong (you can just
> run '/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post x' as a non-mailman,
> unprivileged user to see the error message).
> 
> 

Thanks. It appears:
Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
executed as one of the following groups:
[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "users".
Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:
[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
or re-run configure providing the command line option:
'--with-mail-gid=users'.


That my settings are okay with the file gid being mailman... I'm thinking
now it is something that Postfix is unhappy with (I've cross posted this
thread there now too).


-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/procmail-before-mailman-tp17789754p17829959.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Jun 13 21:00:54 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:00:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Diff Two Mailman Paths?
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0806131153y6eb1ad9ewb8e3e4872c924c1@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <d80f793f0806131153y6eb1ad9ewb8e3e4872c924c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200806131859.m5DIxOgM005033@newbox.eroded.org>

Carlos Williams sent the message below at 11:53 6/13/2008:
>I am moving mailman from one server to another server (not changing
>the domain) and noticed the instructions here:
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055208.html
>
>The instructions show to make sure you copy both the contents of
>/var/lib/mailman/lists to the new server and also
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/.
>
>My question is when looking at "/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/" I
>notice that there are several old and deleted or no longer functioning
>lists in  this directory. Is there nothing that cleans up this path
>when you create a test list and then remove it using the script
>provided in /usr/lib/mailman/bin?
>
>I just don't like a lot of clutter and want this as clean as possible.
>
>Thanks for any info and help!
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Nope, nothing will automatically remove the archives.

Not everyone wants the archives to go away even when a list does. The 
safest thing to do is just leave it alone and let the system 
administrator deal with it as desired.


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From washakie at gmail.com  Fri Jun 13 21:05:27 2008
From: washakie at gmail.com (washakie)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:05:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Temporarily turn off Mailman
Message-ID: <17830102.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hello, I've been trying to deal with a procmail/Mailman issue:
http://www.nabble.com/procmail-before-mailman-td17789754.html

But this is a separate question. I want to temporarily disable Mailman for
the list, to see if I can get procmail to work directly in the user home
directory, rather than via: /etc/procmailrcs/user.procmailrc

Is there a way to 'shutdown' a list temporarily so that I can be assured
Mailman is not interefering at all with the mail delivery?

Thank you.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Temporarily-turn-off-Mailman-tp17830102p17830102.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 13 21:37:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:37:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Diff Two Mailman Paths?
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0806131153y6eb1ad9ewb8e3e4872c924c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061312373508906ceb609d@msapiro>

Carlos Williams wrote:
>
>My question is when looking at "/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/" I
>notice that there are several old and deleted or no longer functioning
>lists in  this directory. Is there nothing that cleans up this path
>when you create a test list and then remove it using the script
>provided in /usr/lib/mailman/bin?


/usr/lib/mailman/bin/rmlist has an option (-a or --archives) to remove
the archives of a list either as the list is removed or after the fact.

It is not the default because sometimes it is desired to remove an
inactive list but keep its archives.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 13 21:43:54 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:43:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] procmail before mailman- closer!
In-Reply-To: <17829959.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061312435404535b6d5dfb@msapiro>

washakie wrote:
>
>Thanks. It appears:
>Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
>executed as one of the following groups:
>[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
>but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "users".
>Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:
>[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
>or re-run configure providing the command line option:
>'--with-mail-gid=users'.
>
>
>That my settings are okay with the file gid being mailman... 


Maybe. The fact that the expected group is a list indicates that your
mail wrapper has been modified by a packager, so I can't say how it
will work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 13 21:49:27 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:49:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporarily turn off Mailman
In-Reply-To: <17830102.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061312492705155b6d5e1e@msapiro>

washakie wrote:
>
>Is there a way to 'shutdown' a list temporarily so that I can be assured
>Mailman is not interefering at all with the mail delivery?


Mailman's 'bin/mailmanctl stop' or 'service mailman stop' will stop
Mailman's qrunners so Mailman will not process or send any mail, but
Mailman normally has nothing to do with incoming mail in any case. It
is strictly up to the incoming MTA and any process it invokes to
ultimately pipe the mail to Mailman's mail/mailman wrapper. Only then,
will it be queued for Mailman to process further.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From washakie at gmail.com  Sat Jun 14 10:11:39 2008
From: washakie at gmail.com (John [H2O])
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 01:11:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] procmail before mailman- closer!
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008061312435404535b6d5dfb@msapiro>
References: <17789754.post@talk.nabble.com> <17795100.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<PC18702008061310595809061481f544@msapiro>
	<17829328.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<PC18702008061311403800461481f1d4@msapiro>
	<17829959.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<PC18702008061312435404535b6d5dfb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <17836952.post@talk.nabble.com>


Well, I finally gave up and renamed the list! It is working now. However, I'm
having another challenge. I'm trying to create a filter that will accept
messages with a specific combination of user/subject/attachment type and
then execute the attachment as a python file. But it seems the file is
actually getting executed twice - I guess because when it is 'read' by
procmail, it is actually run... is this correct? Below is my method, could
someone help explain how to avoid running the attachment twice?

Here is how I achieve this:
1) procmail filters initiate a python script call:
:0
* ^Subject:.*RunMySecretSubject*
{
	LOG="RunScript "
	:0:
	| echo "Job received at " `date` >> /home/username/jobs;
/home/username/runAttached.py
}

2) python script checks the mail:
#!/usr/bin/python

import sys,datetime, os
import subprocess as sub
from email import Parser

def run_cmd(cmd):
    """ RUN A BASH CMD """
    p = sub.call(cmd, shell=True)

now=datetime.datetime.now()
pyFile='runAttached_pyfile.py'
try: 
    os.remove(pyFile)
except: pass
rawData=sys.stdin.read()
p=Parser.Parser()
msg=p.parsestr(rawData)

dbg = file('/home/username/debug','w')
dbg.write('Trying to parse file at: %s\n' % now)

for part in msg.walk():
    if part.get_content_maintype()=="multipart":
        dbg.write('found multipart :: \n')
        continue
    name=part.get_param("name")
    if name==None:
        name="noName"
    dbg.write("Partname == %s\n" % name)
    if (name.endswith('.shx')):
        # grab the logfile
        f2=file(pyFile,'wb')
        body=part.get_payload(decode=1)
        f2.write(body)
        f2.close()
        os.chmod(pyFile,0774)
        cmd = "python %s" % pyFile
        run_cmd(cmd)
        dbg.write("file: %s contains:\n %s \n\nFinished at: %s\n" %
(name,body,datetime.datetime.now()))
        run_cmd(cmd)
dbg.close()


-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/procmail-before-mailman-tp17789754p17836952.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From washakie at gmail.com  Sat Jun 14 10:25:18 2008
From: washakie at gmail.com (John [H2O])
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 01:25:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] procmail before mailman- closer!
In-Reply-To: <17836952.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <17789754.post@talk.nabble.com> <17795100.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<PC18702008061310595809061481f544@msapiro>
	<17829328.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<PC18702008061311403800461481f1d4@msapiro>
	<17829959.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<PC18702008061312435404535b6d5dfb@msapiro>
	<17836952.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <17837030.post@talk.nabble.com>




John [H2O] wrote:
> 
>         cmd = "python %s" % pyFile
>         run_cmd(cmd)
>         dbg.write("file: %s contains:\n %s \n\nFinished at: %s\n" %
> (name,body,datetime.datetime.now()))
>         run_cmd(cmd)
> dbg.close()
> 
> 

Apparently, I'm just tired! ...
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/procmail-before-mailman-tp17789754p17837030.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From billb at mousa.uk.com  Sat Jun 14 19:00:59 2008
From: billb at mousa.uk.com (Bill Bedford)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 18:00:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment downloading
Message-ID: <20080614180059269077.dafaccad@mousa.uk.com>

I have a mailing list where any attachments are scrubbed. This for the 
most part works very well, however some list member have complained 
that they are not are to save images when they are viewed from the url 
presented at the bottom of a message. The image will open in a web 
browser, but attempts to save the image seem to result in either an 
error message or an empty file. It seem that this occurs only to PC 
users, Mac users have no difficulty in saving to disk.

Can anyone offer an explanation I could pass on to my members, and a 
work round, if there is one.


-- 
Bill Bedford

"Man is an animal suspended in webs of significance he himself has spun"

                                                                                      
-- Clifford Geertz

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 14 20:53:21 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:53:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment downloading
In-Reply-To: <20080614180059269077.dafaccad@mousa.uk.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061411532103288c3c8bdd@msapiro>

Bill Bedford wrote:

>I have a mailing list where any attachments are scrubbed. This for the 
>most part works very well, however some list member have complained 
>that they are not are to save images when they are viewed from the url 
>presented at the bottom of a message. The image will open in a web 
>browser, but attempts to save the image seem to result in either an 
>error message or an empty file. It seem that this occurs only to PC 
>users, Mac users have no difficulty in saving to disk.


This is normally a function of the MUA (mail client) viewing the
message or the web browser viewing the message in the archive, but
Mailman might be involved if the link to the stored attachment doesn't
have a 'correct' extension. Depending on the attachment's name and
MIME type in the original message and Mailman's configuration, images
can get stored with an extension such as '.bin' which is inappropriate
for the content.


>Can anyone offer an explanation I could pass on to my members, and a 
>work round, if there is one.


The explananation depends on the MUA involved. One potential
work-around is to view the archived message with a web browser and
right-click the link to the attachment and chose 'save target' or
whatever the browser calls it. Then it may be necessary to edit the
extension (e.g., change .bin to .jpg) as appropriate for the actual
content.

It's hard to be more specific without more detail such as the Name: and
Type: and the extension in the URL: from the 'non-text attachment was
scrubbed' message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dony1985.0729 at yahoo.co.id  Sun Jun 15 19:22:06 2008
From: dony1985.0729 at yahoo.co.id (Dony Tata)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 01:22:06 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman patch + postfix true virtual hosting
Message-ID: <960224.11164.qm@web76112.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>

i use postfix + mailman 2.5 patch true virtual hosting, somebody can help me, if i try send mail to maillist, i get error (unknown user) 

in mm_cfg.py i'm configure like this:
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['doma.ac.id', 'domb.ac.id']

in main.cf  i'm configure like this:
virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
alias_maps = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
alias_database = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases


      Yahoo! Toolbar kini dilengkapi dengan Search Assist. Download sekarang juga.
http://id.toolbar.yahoo.com/

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 15 22:16:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:16:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman patch + postfix true virtual hosting
In-Reply-To: <960224.11164.qm@web76112.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061513160108909e749bbb@msapiro>

Dony Tata wrote:

>i use postfix + mailman 2.5 patch true virtual hosting, somebody can help me, if i try send mail to maillist, i get error (unknown user) 
>
>in mm_cfg.py i'm configure like this:
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['doma.ac.id', 'domb.ac.id']
>
>in main.cf  i'm configure like this:
>virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
>alias_database = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases


Have you run Mailman's bin/genaliases since putting the above settings
in mm_cfg.py?

Normally, Mailman's aliases and virtual maps are in Mailman's
data/aliases and data/virtual_mailman files. What are
/etc/mailman/aliases and /etc/mailman/virtual-mailman? Are they
symlinks to data/aliases and data/virtual_mailman? Where are the
aliases.db and virtual-mailman.db?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carloswill at gmail.com  Mon Jun 16 20:13:55 2008
From: carloswill at gmail.com (Carlos Williams)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:13:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration Trouble
Message-ID: <d80f793f0806161113pb209a6ao85e3a3ea43fd98b6@mail.gmail.com>

I am migrating mailman from server_old (RHEL 4) to server_new (RHEL
5). Its basically in all sense the same machine / arch / domain / blah
blah blah.

I am using this archive as a guide:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055208.html

I copies everything over from my old server to the new as below:

/usr/bin/rsync -ave ssh --delete-after /var/lib/mailman/lists/
root at server_new:/var/lib/mailman/lists
/usr/bin/rsync -ave ssh --delete-after
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/
root at server_new:/var/lib/mailman/archives/private

I skipped step 3 in the guide since the domain is identical and has no
reason to change...

I then copied all /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/*mbox/*mbox to the new
server as shown below:

/usr/bin/rsync -ave ssh --delete-after
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/
root at server_new:/var/lib/mailman/archives/private

Now I am trying to understand step # 5 and I don't understand since my
system has no user or group called list so I can chown -R list:list.
Am I missing something? Right now since I can't execute step 5, when I
attempt to start mailman on my Linux server, I get the following
error:

[root at email cwilliams]# /etc/init.d/mailman start
Starting mailman: Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 607, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 426, in main
    check_for_site_list()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 326, in check_for_site_list
    sitelist = MailList(sitelistname, lock=0)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 665, in Load
    self.CheckVersion(dict)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 707, in CheckVersion
    self.InitVars()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 404, in InitVars
    baseclass.InitVars(self)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 96, in InitVars
    os.mkdir(self.archive_dir()+'.mbox', 02775)
OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox'
                                                           [FAILED]


Anyone know what I am missing or doing wrong?

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 17 03:10:21 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:10:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration Trouble
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0806161113pb209a6ao85e3a3ea43fd98b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061618102105623ace4dc7@msapiro>

Carlos Williams wrote:

>I am migrating mailman from server_old (RHEL 4) to server_new (RHEL
>5). Its basically in all sense the same machine / arch / domain / blah
>blah blah.
>
>I am using this archive as a guide:
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055208.html
>
>I copies everything over from my old server to the new as below:
>
>/usr/bin/rsync -ave ssh --delete-after /var/lib/mailman/lists/
>root at server_new:/var/lib/mailman/lists
>/usr/bin/rsync -ave ssh --delete-after
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/
>root at server_new:/var/lib/mailman/archives/private
>
>I skipped step 3 in the guide since the domain is identical and has no
>reason to change...
>
>I then copied all /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/*mbox/*mbox to the new
>server as shown below:
>
>/usr/bin/rsync -ave ssh --delete-after
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/
>root at server_new:/var/lib/mailman/archives/private


It seems you did this twice?


>Now I am trying to understand step # 5 and I don't understand since my
>system has no user or group called list so I can chown -R list:list.
>Am I missing something? Right now since I can't execute step 5, when I
>attempt to start mailman on my Linux server, I get the following
>error:


In the message you quote above, 'list' is his MAILMAN_USER and
MAILMAN_GROUP. Yours are probably 'mailman'.


>[root at email cwilliams]# /etc/init.d/mailman start
>Starting mailman: Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 607, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 426, in main
>    check_for_site_list()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 326, in check_for_site_list
>    sitelist = MailList(sitelistname, lock=0)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
>    self.Load()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 665, in Load
>    self.CheckVersion(dict)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 707, in CheckVersion
>    self.InitVars()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 404, in InitVars
>    baseclass.InitVars(self)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 96, in InitVars
>    os.mkdir(self.archive_dir()+'.mbox', 02775)
>OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox'
>                                                           [FAILED]
>
>
>Anyone know what I am missing or doing wrong?


Since your domain names don't change, you shouldn't need to do step 6.

For step 5, make sure that everything in lists/ and archives/ is your
mailman group.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 17 03:25:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:25:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bls: mailman patch + postfix true virtual
	hosting
In-Reply-To: <825959.37757.qm@web76116.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061618251402503ace4c88@msapiro>

Dony Tata wrote:
>
>----- Pesan Asli ----
>Dari: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
>Kepada: Dony Tata <dony1985.0729 at yahoo.co.id>; mailman-users at python.org
>Terkirim: Senin, 16 Juni, 2008 03:16:01
>Topik: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman patch + postfix true virtual hosting
>
>Dony Tata wrote:
>
>>i use postfix + mailman 2.5 patch true virtual hosting, somebody can help me, if i try send mail to maillist, i get error (unknown user) 
>>
>>in mm_cfg.py i'm configure like this:
>>MTA = 'Postfix'
>>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['doma.ac.id', 'domb.ac.id']
>>
>>in main.cf  i'm configure like this:
>>virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
>>alias_maps = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
>>alias_database = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
>
>
>>Have you run Mailman's bin/genaliases since putting the above settings
>>in mm_cfg.py?
>
>>Normally, Mailman's aliases and virtual maps are in Mailman's
>>data/aliases and data/virtual_mailman files. What are
>>/etc/mailman/aliases and /etc/mailman/virtual-mailman? Are they
>>symlinks to data/aliases and data/virtual_mailman? Where are the
>>aliases.db and virtual-mailman.db?
>
>-- 
>>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>i`m install postfix + mailman patch true virtual hosting on centos, aliases.db and virtual-mailman.db locate in /etc/mailman....


OK. So you have a Postfix issue. Some people on the Mailman-Users list
(including me) can help you with Postfix, but we need to understand
the problem.

So please post to the list (not just to me), at least the following:
what address you are posting to, the entries in
/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman and /etc/mailman/aliases for that address
and the /var/log/maillog entries from that post. Also verify that the
/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman.db and /etc/mailman/aliases.db files have
been updated (have the same or more recent timestamps as the
/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman and /etc/mailman/aliases files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 17 04:49:53 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:49:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with the who command (migrating lists FAQ)
Message-ID: <31607-35676@sneakemail.com>

I followed the FAQ? and sent a `who ?password?` to my old list (where  
I am administrator). This scheme had the following problems:

  1. All user settings are lost (digest, no email, etc.).
  2. It does not return subscribers with concealed identity (hide).
  3. User names with accents came through mangled.

I expected #1 but not #2 (as I can see these users in the web UI with  
my admin passwords).

To solve #3 I had to set my old list to Serbian. This changed encoding  
from us-ascii to utf-8 and caused the user names to be emailed without  
the mangling.

I suggest updating the FAQ and/or improve the `who` command to return  
concealed users to the list administrator. Would also be nice if the  
mass subscribe could optionally take per user settings and `who` would  
return these.

? http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#3.4

Using Mailman 2.1.9 (Ubuntu installation).


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 17 04:51:33 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:51:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive threading (pipermail)
Message-ID: <5370-87082@sneakemail.com>

I copied a list?s mbox to a new server and regenerated the archive.

Unfortunately threading is not rendered satisfyingly, here are the two  
Mailman/pipermail versions:

     Old: http://lists.textdrive.com/pipermail/textmate/2008-January/thread.html
     New: http://lists.macromates.com/textmate/2008-January/thread.html

The new one is using wrong indent levels for letters.


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 17 04:53:20 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:53:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encoding problems
Message-ID: <31790-75914@sneakemail.com>

Some of my subscribers have accents and similar in their name and I  
had to do the following post install to have Mailman properly work  
with these:

## CLI

In order to get `list_members -f ?list?` to properly output non-ASCII  
user names I had to put the following:

     import sys
     sys.setdefaultencoding('utf-8')

Into `/etc/python2.5/sitecustomize.py`. This is despite proper setup  
of `LC_CTYPE` on the system. Seems to me Mailman should use the  
encoding of the current locale, not this site-wide Python default  
encoding (settable by root only).

## Web

For the web page forms to accept non-ASCII I had to put this:

     add_language('en', 'English', 'utf-8')

Into `/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py`. I think utf-8 should be the default  
because even on an English list, you can use non-ASCII punctuation,  
glyphs, and many European subscribers will have non-ASCII in their  
names.

## Mailing List

The mailing list letters are correct _except_ that the body now  
contains this:

     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
     Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

And yes, each letter sent to the list is converted into base64.

I tried disabling the above utf-8 changes, but it did not seem to fix  
it. But it might be that the list language (containing utf-8) was  
copied at list creation time, so I will effectively have to recreate  
the list (or write Python code) to change this?


Using Mailman 2.1.9 (Ubuntu installation).



From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 17 04:54:22 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:54:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue problems
Message-ID: <3144-87037@sneakemail.com>

I transferred a lot of list members from a previous list. A dozen of  
these has left errors like the following in `logs/smtp-failures`:

     delivery to ?address? failed with code 450:
     4.1.2 ?address?: Recipient address rejected:
     Domain not found

This is interpreted as a temporary failure so Mailman will put the  
letter into `qfiles/retry`. Every 15th minute the retry qrunner will  
move all the retry letters back into `qfiles/out`.

My queue had gathered around 70 emails and had 10 recipients or so  
with this error, so it took more than half an hour to get through all  
of the queue (only to start over).

Since the queue is FIFO _without_ lowering the priority for retries,  
it meant that normal subscribers saw a long delay before their letter  
was delivered to other list subscribers.

I unsubscribed all addresses that were listed in `logs/smtp-failures`  
and then I had to manually delete letters from the qfiles.

But now I see another subscriber has a similar problem and is causing  
letters to pile up in qfiles affecting delivery to healthy recipients.

Seems to me that there is a flaw in this system (having retries pile  
up and starve regular delivery).


Using Mailman 2.1.9 (Ubuntu installation).


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 17 04:56:11 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:56:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spaces inserted in subjects
Message-ID: <14307-79378@sneakemail.com>

On a new list I had this set in `mm_cfg.py` at creation time:

     OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = No

This caused extra spaces between the tag inserted and the subject for  
letters sent to the list.

I suspected that this option was the problem, but I was unable to  
disable it again (seems to be another one of those options only  
settable at list creation time), so I had to traverse the source and  
eventually found the problem in `CookHeaders.py` where it does:

     u' '.join([prefix, recolon, subject])

But for new letters `recolon` will be the empty string.


Using Mailman 2.1.9 (Ubuntu installation).


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 17 04:57:02 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:57:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to enable VERP?
Message-ID: <10734-43523@sneakemail.com>

When I look at the letters I receive from my list they do not have my  
subscription address in the `Return-Path` header, so I suspect VERP is  
disabled.

I have placed the following in `/etc/mailman/mm_cfg:`

     VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
     VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes

But I also see options about list personalization. Do I need to also  
enable that stuff?


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jun 17 06:15:49 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:15:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to enable VERP?
In-Reply-To: <10734-43523@sneakemail.com>
References: <10734-43523@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240804c47cea3e3353@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:

>  When I look at the letters I receive from my list they do not have
>  my subscription address in the `Return-Path` header, so I suspect
>  VERP is disabled.

Correct.

>  I have placed the following in `/etc/mailman/mm_cfg:`
>
>     VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
>     VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes

Here are all of the VERP* definitions from Defaults.py that you can 
consider changing:

VERP_PROBES = No
VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = No
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = No
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = No

And here are the settings for personalization:

VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = No
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = No


If you change any of these, make sure to stop and restart Mailman for 
them to take effect.

>  But I also see options about list personalization. Do I need to also
>  enable that stuff?

Yes.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jun 17 05:59:40 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:59:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with the who command (migrating lists
 FAQ)
In-Reply-To: <31607-35676@sneakemail.com>
References: <31607-35676@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c47ce5ad2174@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:

>  I followed the FAQ' and sent a `who ?password?` to my old list (where I
>  am administrator). This scheme had the following problems:
>
>  1. All user settings are lost (digest, no email, etc.).
>  2. It does not return subscribers with concealed identity (hide).
>  3. User names with accents came through mangled.

It also does not get any of the users who have 
set themselves to be invisible to everyone else.

If you want to properly move a list from one 
machine to another, you need to use a different 
mechanism.  See FAQ 3.4 at 
<http://tinyurl.com/5v8xyv>.

>  I suggest updating the FAQ and/or improve the `who` command to return
>  concealed users to the list administrator. Would also be nice if the
>  mass subscribe could optionally take per user settings and `who` would
>  return these.

These issues are dealt with when the proper methods are used to move a list.

>' http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#3.4

We're not using this anymore.  See 
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked+Questions> 
instead.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jun 17 06:01:33 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:01:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive threading (pipermail)
In-Reply-To: <5370-87082@sneakemail.com>
References: <5370-87082@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c47ce75684e9@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:

>  I copied a list's mbox to a new server and regenerated the archive.
>
>  Unfortunately threading is not rendered satisfyingly, here are the
>  two Mailman/pipermail versions:

Your threading got broken somehow, but I can't tell you how.  This 
would need further investigation.

One thing that strikes me is to ask whether you copied the "cooked" 
text archives or the raw mbox archives, before regeneration?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jun 17 06:11:56 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:11:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue problems
In-Reply-To: <3144-87037@sneakemail.com>
References: <3144-87037@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240803c47ce94ffb63@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:

>  I transferred a lot of list members from a previous list. A dozen of these
>  has left errors like the following in `logs/smtp-failures`:
>
>     delivery to ?address? failed with code 450:
>     4.1.2 ?address?: Recipient address rejected:
>     Domain not found

You're doing DNS validation on your outbound 
mail.  Don't do that.  Pay attention to the stuff 
in section 6 of the FAQ, especially including 
6.6, 6.8, 6.12, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jun 17 06:08:32 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:08:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <31790-75914@sneakemail.com>
References: <31790-75914@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c47ce7c69f54@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:

>  For the web page forms to accept non-ASCII I had to put this:
>
>     add_language('en', 'English', 'utf-8')
>
>  Into `/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py`. I think utf-8 should be the default
>  because even on an English list, you can use non-ASCII punctuation,
>  glyphs, and many European subscribers will have non-ASCII in their names.

True enough, but the ISO Latin-1 encoding should be sufficient for 
most European subscribers.  And many of the developers for Python in 
general and Mailman in particular are from European countries, so 
internationalization is an issue that we pay a lot of attention to.

In fact, waiting for i18n to catch up is what tends to delay our 
major releases by at least a month or two -- the basic code is there 
and ready to go, but the localization strings in the various 
languages aren't.

>  The mailing list letters are correct _except_ that the body now 
>contains this:
>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>     Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

The charset is exactly what you previously created.  The 
content-transfer-encoding is standard MIME encoding for non-ASCII 
charsets that cannot be represented in quoted-printable, or where 
more than a certain percentage of characters in a given message would 
have to be encoded.

There's absolutely nothing abnormal about that.

>  I tried disabling the above utf-8 changes, but it did not seem to fix it.
>  But it might be that the list language (containing utf-8) was copied at
>  list creation time, so I will effectively have to recreate the list (or
>  write Python code) to change this?

The charset would have been set at list creation time, yes.  But the 
content-transfer-encoding settings follows from standard practice for 
MIME encoding.


If you want to go fix the MIME encoding routines to work some other 
way, you're going to have a lot more heavy lifting to do.  Among 
other things, all your changes to this code will get wiped out with 
the next upgrade, so you'll need to make sure you keep a copy to the 
side which you can use to re-patch the code to implement things the 
way you want them.

Alternatively, go talk to the authors of the MIME encoding routines 
and see if you can get them to change their minds.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From dony1985.0729 at yahoo.co.id  Tue Jun 17 11:36:00 2008
From: dony1985.0729 at yahoo.co.id (Dony Tata)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:36:00 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to configure mailman....(mailman server
	different with mail server)
Message-ID: <313201.24542.qm@web76110.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>

how to configure mailman....(mailman server different with mail server), i have problem 
Jun 17 16:28:04 2008 (1388) Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection refused'), msgid: <mailman.2.1213693644.1256.sore at irfan.ac.id>
Jun 17 16:28:04 2008 (1388) delivery to fedora at irfan.ac.id failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')


      Yahoo! Toolbar kini dilengkapi dengan Search Assist. Download sekarang juga.
http://id.toolbar.yahoo.com/

From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Tue Jun 17 11:56:48 2008
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:56:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue problems
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c47ce94ffb63@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <3144-87037@sneakemail.com> <p06240803c47ce94ffb63@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <20080617095648.GK1235@mail.incertum.net>

* Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:
> 
>> I transferred a lot of list members from a previous list. A dozen of these
>> has left errors like the following in `logs/smtp-failures`:
>> 
>>    delivery to ?address? failed with code 450:
>>    4.1.2 ?address?: Recipient address rejected:
>>    Domain not found
> 
> You're doing DNS validation on your outbound
> mail.  Don't do that.  Pay attention to the stuff
> in section 6 of the FAQ, especially including
> 6.6, 6.8, 6.12, etc....

Not 100% related: What happens if my MTA does DNS validation and
rejects addresses who yield an NXDOMAIN (as opposed to a SERVFAIL)
with a permanent error code instead of creating a bounce?


Ciao
Stefan
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9

From carloswill at gmail.com  Tue Jun 17 16:32:20 2008
From: carloswill at gmail.com (Carlos Williams)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:32:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration Trouble
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008061618102105623ace4dc7@msapiro>
References: <d80f793f0806161113pb209a6ao85e3a3ea43fd98b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC18702008061618102105623ace4dc7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <d80f793f0806170732i724728bcj2a58acffdefc3765@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
> Since your domain names don't change, you shouldn't need to do step 6.
>
> For step 5, make sure that everything in lists/ and archives/ is your
> mailman group.
>
I ran the following command:

"chown -R mailman:mailman /var/lib/mailman/lists/"

I see that everything in /var/lib/mailman/lists is owned by mailman:mailman.

So now I am looking at path in the error I received:

OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox'
                                                           [FAILED]

When I look at the path in the error on my server_old and server_new,
I notice the mailman.mbox path goes on and on and on and on...

Is this normal? Look below - its identical on both servers however
mailman works on server_old. You can see below that I start in private
directory and I am able to "cd" in to the same directory over and over
and then you can see the "pwd" command path...

[root at mail private]# cd mailman.mbox/
[root at mail mailman.mbox]# ls -l
total 4
drwxrwsr-x  3 mailman mailman 4096 Oct 25  2006 mailman.mbox
[root at mail mailman.mbox]# cd mailman.mbox/
[root at mail mailman.mbox]# ls -l
total 4
drwxrwsr-x  3 mailman mailman 4096 Oct 25  2006 mailman.mbox
[root at mail mailman.mbox]# cd mailman.mbox/
[root at mail mailman.mbox]# cd mailman.mbox/
[root at mail mailman.mbox]# cd mailman.mbox/
[root at mail mailman.mbox]# cd mailman.mbox/
[root at mail mailman.mbox]# cd mailman.mbox/
[root at mail mailman.mbox]# ls -l
total 4
drwxrwsr-x  3 mailman mailman 4096 Oct 25  2006 mailman.mbox
[root at mail mailman.mbox]# pwd
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox/mailman.mbox/mailman.mbox/mailman.mbox/mailman.mbox/mailman.mbox/mailman.mbox

From campbell at cnpapers.com  Tue Jun 17 16:59:16 2008
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:59:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple line salutations
Message-ID: <4857D144.9030603@cnpapers.com>

I've had a request from a moderator for a list we run. They would like 
to know if there is the ability to have multiple line Salutations (the 
box under the email address when viewing the subscriber list) for 
personalizations.

An example might be

John Adams
Vice President

Is there a new line character that can be used line "\n" or something?

Thanks

Steve Campbell


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 17 17:15:25 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:15:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration Trouble
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0806170732i724728bcj2a58acffdefc3765@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061708152505780428265b@msapiro>

Carlos Williams wrote:
>
>So now I am looking at path in the error I received:
>
>OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox'
>                                                           [FAILED]
>
>When I look at the path in the error on my server_old and server_new,
>I notice the mailman.mbox path goes on and on and on and on...
>
>Is this normal? Look below - its identical on both servers however
>mailman works on server_old.


This is very wrong. There should be one archives/private/list.mbox
directory for each list and that directory should contain one
list.mbox file which is a mailbox contianing all posts archived for
the list. I.e., in the case of the 'mailman' list, an
archives/private/mailman.mbox directory containing an
archives/private/mailman.mbox/mailman.mbox file.

What does 'ls -lR /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox' show
on the old and new servers? What about other lists?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 17 17:24:19 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:24:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to configure mailman....(mailman
	serverdifferent with mail server)
In-Reply-To: <313201.24542.qm@web76110.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806170824190109f654de40@msapiro>

Dony Tata wrote:

>how to configure mailman....(mailman server different with mail server), i have problem 
>Jun 17 16:28:04 2008 (1388) Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection refused'), msgid: <mailman.2.1213693644.1256.sore at irfan.ac.id>
>Jun 17 16:28:04 2008 (1388) delivery to fedora at irfan.ac.id failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')


The server specified by the SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT settings is not
accepting connects from Mailman.

The FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9> has some additional
information about these kinds of errors, but I suspect there is no MTA
listening at the specified host:port (default localhost:25).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at python.org  Tue Jun 17 17:27:56 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:27:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue problems
In-Reply-To: <20080617095648.GK1235@mail.incertum.net>
References: <3144-87037@sneakemail.com> <p06240803c47ce94ffb63@[192.168.1.199]>
	<20080617095648.GK1235@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <4857D7FC.4070103@python.org>

Stefan F?rster wrote:

> Not 100% related: What happens if my MTA does DNS validation and
> rejects addresses who yield an NXDOMAIN (as opposed to a SERVFAIL)
> with a permanent error code instead of creating a bounce?

You should turn off the DNS validation in the first place.

That said, I think Mailman should be able to handle a permanent error in the 
correct way, by treating that as a bounce and handling it through the bounce 
mechanism.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From brad at python.org  Tue Jun 17 17:38:01 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:38:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple line salutations
In-Reply-To: <4857D144.9030603@cnpapers.com>
References: <4857D144.9030603@cnpapers.com>
Message-ID: <4857DA59.1030900@python.org>

Steve Campbell wrote:

> Is there a new line character that can be used line "\n" or something?

No, I don't think so.  I think all characters that could potentially be 
considered special by HTML will get stripped.  And I don't think there's an 
easy way around this problem.

You could always use commas after the name.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 17 18:01:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:01:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple line salutations
In-Reply-To: <4857DA59.1030900@python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806170901500687f5002d61@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>Steve Campbell wrote:
>
>> Is there a new line character that can be used line "\n" or something?
>
>No, I don't think so.  I think all characters that could potentially be 
>considered special by HTML will get stripped.  And I don't think there's an 
>easy way around this problem.


Not only that. Even if you did manage to get a new line inserted into
the real name, say with bin/withlist, the text box on the web page is
defined as a single line without scrolling, so whatever follows the
new line wouldn't be displayed anyway.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From campbell at cnpapers.com  Tue Jun 17 18:13:44 2008
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:13:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple line salutations
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806170901500687f5002d61@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200806170901500687f5002d61@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4857E2B8.6070705@cnpapers.com>



Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>   
>> Steve Campbell wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Is there a new line character that can be used line "\n" or something?
>>>       
>> No, I don't think so.  I think all characters that could potentially be 
>> considered special by HTML will get stripped.  And I don't think there's an 
>> easy way around this problem.
>>     
>
>
> Not only that. Even if you did manage to get a new line inserted into
> the real name, say with bin/withlist, the text box on the web page is
> defined as a single line without scrolling, so whatever follows the
> new line wouldn't be displayed anyway.
>
>   
Yep, realized that right away.

If there was a way to get it in there, though, I could have deleted and 
re-added the subscriber if the Salutation needed changing.

I've notified the person requesting this and she's decided to use a dash.

Thanks for the responses.

Steve


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 17 18:27:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:27:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with the who command (migrating lists
	FAQ)
In-Reply-To: <31607-35676@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020080617092703018736ab96be@msapiro>

Allan Odgaard wrote:
>
>I suggest updating the FAQ and/or improve the `who` command to return  
>concealed users to the list administrator.


It does since Mailman 2.1.10.

See FAQ 3.62 at <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9> which says in part "The
above two methods [who command and list roster] have the drawback that
'hidden' members (those who have opted to be excluded from those
lists) are not shown (this drawback will be removed in Mailman 2.1.10
for those who authorize with a list admin/moderator password)."

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david.weber at l-3com.com  Tue Jun 17 18:15:36 2008
From: david.weber at l-3com.com (david.weber at l-3com.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:15:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly went anonymous
Message-ID: <55B858CA6C995345AF972EF652665FB703AAB214@ARLEXCHVS01.lst.link.l-3com.com>

All,

We saw some weird behavior on one of our lists about a month ago.  It's
an internal list, and is meant to not be anonymous.  All of a sudden,
the messages are coming from our -bounces address, and the users are
being obscured.

If you look at the archive, the names are being stored correctly, just
not when the messages are being sent out.

According to the web page, we're running version 2.1.10.  We (the
mailing list admins) are not sure what happened to the box.  It may have
been upgraded, but we really do not have any clue.

TIA

--dw

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jun 17 18:40:40 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:40:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly went anonymous
In-Reply-To: <55B858CA6C995345AF972EF652665FB703AAB214@ARLEXCHVS01.lst.link.l-3com.com>
References: <55B858CA6C995345AF972EF652665FB703AAB214@ARLEXCHVS01.lst.link.l-3com.com>
Message-ID: <4857E908.9070807@shub-internet.org>

david.weber at l-3com.com wrote:

> We saw some weird behavior on one of our lists about a month ago.  It's
> an internal list, and is meant to not be anonymous.  All of a sudden,
> the messages are coming from our -bounces address, and the users are
> being obscured.

See FAQ 2.3 at 
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/From+field+displayed+by+Microsoft+Outlook>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 17 18:47:04 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:47:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to enable VERP?
In-Reply-To: <p06240804c47cea3e3353@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806170947040812491ef0b0@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:
>
>>  When I look at the letters I receive from my list they do not have
>>  my subscription address in the `Return-Path` header, so I suspect
>>  VERP is disabled.
>
>Correct.
>
>>  I have placed the following in `/etc/mailman/mm_cfg:`
>>
>>     VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
>>     VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
>
>Here are all of the VERP* definitions from Defaults.py that you can 
>consider changing:
>
>VERP_PROBES = No
>VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = No
>VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = No
>VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0
>VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = No
>
>And here are the settings for personalization:
>
>VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = No
>OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = No
>
>
>If you change any of these, make sure to stop and restart Mailman for 
>them to take effect.
>
>>  But I also see options about list personalization. Do I need to also
>>  enable that stuff?
>
>Yes.


Actually, Mailman doesn't do VERP by default because it requires
sending a separate message to the MTA for each recipient if Mailman
does it. Thus, the default is no VERP so Mailman can deliver posts to
multiple recipients in one SMTP transaction with multiple RCPT TO
commands. You can configure your MTA to do the VERPing, or you can
have Mailman do it.

If Mailman does it, there are the various settings Brad points out
above. If some lists are already personalized, you can set
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES to Yes to VERP deliveries to those lists.
This setting exists because it involves no extra overhead since
personalized deliveries are sent individually already.

If you want Mailman to VERP all deliveries, just set
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 and don't worry about personalization.

All these settings are documented in Defaults.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 17 18:53:21 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:53:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue problems
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c47ce94ffb63@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806170953210640d242cc15@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:
>
>>  I transferred a lot of list members from a previous list. A dozen of these
>>  has left errors like the following in `logs/smtp-failures`:
>>
>>     delivery to <<address>> failed with code 450:
>>     4.1.2 <<address>>: Recipient address rejected:
>>     Domain not found
>
>You're doing DNS validation on your outbound
>mail.  Don't do that.  Pay attention to the stuff
>in section 6 of the FAQ, especially including
>6.6, 6.8, 6.12, etc....


Also, fix your MTA configuration so it returns a 5xx status, not a 450
for a non-existant domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carloswill at gmail.com  Tue Jun 17 19:13:36 2008
From: carloswill at gmail.com (Carlos Williams)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:13:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration Trouble
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008061708152505780428265b@msapiro>
References: <d80f793f0806170732i724728bcj2a58acffdefc3765@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC18702008061708152505780428265b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <d80f793f0806171013j7d0bf48ap813b4d0e56a036a4@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> This is very wrong. There should be one archives/private/list.mbox
> directory for each list and that directory should contain one
> list.mbox file which is a mailbox contianing all posts archived for
> the list. I.e., in the case of the 'mailman' list, an
> archives/private/mailman.mbox directory containing an
> archives/private/mailman.mbox/mailman.mbox file.
>
> What does 'ls -lR /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox' show
> on the old and new servers? What about other lists?
When I run "ls -lR /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox" I
get an output that is a mile long. The results from that command is
huge. Every other list has one .mbox file with 775 permissions except
mailman. I do see some other stuff I do not like so I am going to
start from scratch. I think I will just re-create all the mailman
lists from scratch and force everyone to re-subscribe.

From barry at list.org  Tue Jun 17 19:31:55 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:31:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New FAQ
Message-ID: <7C24DBEE-5818-4561-8851-EC5DC2759D09@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi everybody,

I wanted to let you know that Terri Oda has written a nice script to  
turn the old FAQ wizard into FAQ entries on the wiki.  She and others  
have spent some time gardening, tweaking and updating the wiki FAQ and  
it is now ready to take over as our definitive FAQ.  Thanks Terri and  
everyone else who contributed to this effort!

We'll keep the old FAQ wizard around so that existing links will  
continue to work.  I've added a footer indicating that it is obsolete  
and pointing people at the wiki FAQ.  I've also disabled write access  
to the FAQ wizard.

Here's the new FAQ:

http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked+Questions

There's also a link to this on the front page of the wiki:

http://wiki.list.org

Enjoy,
- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAkhX9QwACgkQ2YZpQepbvXGDXQCgiBI4IXaBFgt9Wc+ZpjQc1zVN
LzkAnRnOiqHrnk5KdoD6brqhmxFHag8e
=2fZN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From david.weber at l-3com.com  Tue Jun 17 20:36:10 2008
From: david.weber at l-3com.com (david.weber at l-3com.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:36:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly went anonymous
In-Reply-To: <4857E908.9070807@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <55B858CA6C995345AF972EF652665FB703AAB37D@ARLEXCHVS01.lst.link.l-3com.com>

This doesn't seem to be the behavior that we're seeing.  It seemingly
happened out of the blue, and we can create a new mailing list which
behaves as it did before.  The headers also do not contain From XXX on
Behalf of foo at bar.com.  The original user is being obscured from the
headers altogether.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:41 AM
> To: Weber, David C @ Link
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly went anonymous
> 
> david.weber at l-3com.com wrote:
> 
> > We saw some weird behavior on one of our lists about a month ago.  
> > It's an internal list, and is meant to not be anonymous.  All of a 
> > sudden, the messages are coming from our -bounces address, and the 
> > users are being obscured.
> 
> See FAQ 2.3 at
> <http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/From+field+displayed+by+Micr
> osoft+Outlook>.
> 
> --
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 17 21:41:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:41:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly went anonymous
In-Reply-To: <55B858CA6C995345AF972EF652665FB703AAB37D@ARLEXCHVS01.lst.link.l-3com.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061712413506091232f044@msapiro>

david.weber at l-3com.com wrote:

>This doesn't seem to be the behavior that we're seeing.  It seemingly
>happened out of the blue, and we can create a new mailing list which
>behaves as it did before.  The headers also do not contain From XXX on
>Behalf of foo at bar.com.  The original user is being obscured from the
>headers altogether.


What is the setting of anonymous_list on the lists General Options page?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david.weber at l-3com.com  Tue Jun 17 23:21:55 2008
From: david.weber at l-3com.com (david.weber at l-3com.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 16:21:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly went anonymous
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008061712413506091232f044@msapiro>
Message-ID: <55B858CA6C995345AF972EF652665FB703AAB576@ARLEXCHVS01.lst.link.l-3com.com>

Sorry, should have mentioned that. 

The anonymous_list is set to "No", and changing it to "Yes" makes posts
in the archive anonymous too (presently, only the emails are anonymous,
not the archive).  Changing it back from "Yes" to "No" shows the exact
same behavior as well.

Thinking about it, if mailman is written in python, could the *.pyc
files have been corrupted?  I've them do some weird things elsewhere on
stuff I've personally written.

Also, we are able to create a new, dummy list that works as expected.
Very strange..


--dw


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:42 PM
> To: Weber, David C @ Link; Brad Knowles
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly went anonymous
> 
> david.weber at l-3com.com wrote:
> 
> >This doesn't seem to be the behavior that we're seeing.  It 
> seemingly 
> >happened out of the blue, and we can create a new mailing list which 
> >behaves as it did before.  The headers also do not contain 
> From XXX on 
> >Behalf of foo at bar.com.  The original user is being obscured from the 
> >headers altogether.
> 
> 
> What is the setting of anonymous_list on the lists General 
> Options page?
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 17 23:50:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:50:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly went anonymous
In-Reply-To: <55B858CA6C995345AF972EF652665FB703AAB576@ARLEXCHVS01.lst.link.l-3com.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061714501300154c5a6ddc@msapiro>

david.weber at l-3com.com wrote:

>The anonymous_list is set to "No", and changing it to "Yes" makes posts
>in the archive anonymous too (presently, only the emails are anonymous,
>not the archive).  Changing it back from "Yes" to "No" shows the exact
>same behavior as well.


This makes me suspect the MTA. See <http://wiki.list.org/x/uYA9>
although that isn't exactly your situation.

The only place Mailman manipulates the From: header is in
Mailman/Handlers/Cleanse.py for anonymous lists and this happens
before the message is archived.


>Thinking about it, if mailman is written in python, could the *.pyc
>files have been corrupted?  I've them do some weird things elsewhere on
>stuff I've personally written.


If the problem were a .pyc, and it didn't just throw exceptions, it
would probably affect all lists. In any case, you could just do
something like

 find /path/to/mailman -name \*.pyc -exec rm "{}" \;

to remove all the .pyc files and restart mailman. In fact, if you
haven't restarted mailman, you could just try that in case one of the
qrunners somehow got corrupted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 18 02:26:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:26:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spaces inserted in subjects
In-Reply-To: <14307-79378@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806171726140796f6a13c2a@msapiro>

Allan Odgaard wrote:

>On a new list I had this set in `mm_cfg.py` at creation time:
>
>     OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = No
>
>This caused extra spaces between the tag inserted and the subject for  
>letters sent to the list.
>
>I suspected that this option was the problem, but I was unable to  
>disable it again (seems to be another one of those options only  
>settable at list creation time),


Nothing about this option is remembered in the list configuration.


>so I had to traverse the source and  
>eventually found the problem in `CookHeaders.py` where it does:
>
>     u' '.join([prefix, recolon, subject])
>
>But for new letters `recolon` will be the empty string.


I think you are correct about the cause, but this will occur if the
current setting of OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING is No or if the prefix contains
a %d replacement. I.e. any %d replacement in subject_prefix will
override OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = Yes just like it says in Defaults.py.

I'll look at fixing this for 2.1.11. Thanks for the report.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 18 02:49:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:49:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <31790-75914@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806171749170453c8955e56@msapiro>

Allan Odgaard wrote:

>Some of my subscribers have accents and similar in their name and I  
>had to do the following post install to have Mailman properly work  
>with these:
>
>## CLI
>
>In order to get `list_members -f ?list?` to properly output non-ASCII  
>user names I had to put the following:
>
>     import sys
>     sys.setdefaultencoding('utf-8')
>
>Into `/etc/python2.5/sitecustomize.py`. This is despite proper setup  
>of `LC_CTYPE` on the system. Seems to me Mailman should use the  
>encoding of the current locale, not this site-wide Python default  
>encoding (settable by root only).


I am aware of this issue, but I think the place to fix it is Python,
not Mailman.


>## Web
>
>For the web page forms to accept non-ASCII I had to put this:
>
>     add_language('en', 'English', 'utf-8')
>
>Into `/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py`. I think utf-8 should be the default  
>because even on an English list, you can use non-ASCII punctuation,  
>glyphs, and many European subscribers will have non-ASCII in their  
>names.


The web UI is scheduled for overhaul. This will probably be addressed.


>## Mailing List
>
>The mailing list letters are correct _except_ that the body now  
>contains this:
>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>     Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>
>And yes, each letter sent to the list is converted into base64.


Again, this is the Python email library. If you prefer
quoted-printable, set the language's charset to iso-8859-1.


>I tried disabling the above utf-8 changes, but it did not seem to fix  
>it. But it might be that the list language (containing utf-8) was  
>copied at list creation time, so I will effectively have to recreate  
>the list (or write Python code) to change this?


The list's preferred language was set at list create time and can be
changed at any time thereafter, but nothing about that language's
charset is in the list config.

Did you restart Mailman after removing

     add_language('en', 'English', 'utf-8')

from mm_cfg.py? If so, and you're still getting utf-8 encoded list
mail, the incoming posts are probably utf-8 encoded.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adamsca at gmail.com  Wed Jun 18 04:09:09 2008
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:09:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about Nomail in admin
Message-ID: <27572d930806171909m19aacf6cy11b97cdd6b83aae3@mail.gmail.com>

I recently noticed an address on a list and there is a checkmark and a ?
(question mark) in the Nomail column. I understand what that means and the
longer description is:

"Note: your list delivery is currently disabled; it was disabled for unknown
reasons"

Fine, but I know for a fact that this particular address hasn't existed for
several years. So, why hasn't it been disabled and unsubscribed?

The bounce settings for this list are 5.0, 7, 3, 7.

I looked through the logs and see no reference to this address. What could
be happening?

-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 18 04:55:06 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:55:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about Nomail in admin
In-Reply-To: <27572d930806171909m19aacf6cy11b97cdd6b83aae3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061719550607966c9f04e2@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>I recently noticed an address on a list and there is a checkmark and a ?
>(question mark) in the Nomail column. I understand what that means and the
>longer description is:
>
>"Note: your list delivery is currently disabled; it was disabled for unknown
>reasons"
>
>Fine, but I know for a fact that this particular address hasn't existed for
>several years. So, why hasn't it been disabled and unsubscribed?


Disabled for unknown reasons means disabled pre Mailman 2.1.x.

Since delivery is disabled, the list is not mailing to this address, so
the address isn't currently bouncing except possibly for password
reminders which aren't often enough to score more than 1.0 as the
prior bounce is always stale with these settings.


>The bounce settings for this list are 5.0, 7, 3, 7.
>
>I looked through the logs and see no reference to this address. What could
>be happening?


The address is on the list. You aren't mailing to it so nothing is
happening. cron/disabled won't do anything to it because it isn't
disabled BYBOUNCE.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dony1985.0729 at yahoo.co.id  Wed Jun 18 06:23:27 2008
From: dony1985.0729 at yahoo.co.id (Dony Tata)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:23:27 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] selinux postfix + mailman
Message-ID: <266220.90701.qm@web76115.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>

how to configure selinux on centos 5 , i use postfix and mailman,if selinux set enabled, i have got error in /var/log/mailman/error "command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias /etc/mailman/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)", if selinux set disabled, it's work fine. But i want set selinux to enable and postfix + mailman works fine...



      ________________________________________________________ 
Bergabunglah dengan orang-orang yang berwawasan, di di bidang Anda! Kunjungi Yahoo! Answers saat ini juga di http://id.answers.yahoo.com/

From adsarebad at gmail.com  Wed Jun 18 10:04:41 2008
From: adsarebad at gmail.com (adsarebad at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 01:04:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
Message-ID: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>

Hello all,

I have searched all over for how to do true virtual list with mailman 
and finely decided to run multiple mailman installs side by side.

However when setting up the fist mailman install I have ran into a 
wall.  In mm_cfg.py

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domian.com']
MTA = 'Postfix'

When I make a new list I end up with data/aliases

fun:             "|/usr/local/mailman/domain/mail/mailman post fun"

and so on.  In data/virtual-mailman

fun at domain.com              fun


The problem is I need a table that says

fun at domain.com    "|/usr/local/mailman/domain/mail/mailman post fun"


At least thats what I think I need.  Anyone know of a page where is 
tells how to go about setting up multiple mailman installs?  
http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html#postfix-virtual 
is rather vague.


Thanks!

From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jun 18 11:32:07 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:32:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16288-61549@sneakemail.com>

On 18 Jun 2008, at 10:04, adsarebad-at-......... wrote:

> I have searched all over for how to do true virtual list with  
> mailman and finely decided to run multiple mailman installs side by  
> side.

Have you seen <http://www.gurulabs.com/downloads/postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py 
 >?

It was included with my Mailman install. This does not require system- 
wide aliases for the various lists (so you should set MTA = None).

I don?t think it will verify that the domain is the proper one (for  
mails sent to each list), but it should be simple to duplicate the  
service as mailman-list-a, b, c and setup the different ones to be  
used as transport for the different list domains (via transport_maps  
in postfix/main.cf), that way, Postfix will help do the validation.



From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jun 18 11:34:49 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:34:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to enable VERP?
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806170947040812491ef0b0@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200806170947040812491ef0b0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <27638-34739@sneakemail.com>

On 17 Jun 2008, at 18:47, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> [...]
> If you want Mailman to VERP all deliveries, just set
> VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 and don't worry about personalization.

Thanks, I ended up with just this one and it works.


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jun 18 11:39:15 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:39:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue problems
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806170953210640d242cc15@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200806170953210640d242cc15@msapiro>
Message-ID: <715-77836@sneakemail.com>

On 17 Jun 2008, at 18:53, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>> On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:
>>
>>> I transferred a lot of list members from a previous list. A dozen  
>>> of these
>>> has left errors like the following in `logs/smtp-failures`:
>>>
>>>    delivery to <<address>> failed with code 450:
>>>    4.1.2 <<address>>: Recipient address rejected:
>>>    Domain not found
>>
>> You're doing DNS validation on your outbound
>> mail.  Don't do that.  Pay attention to the stuff
>> in section 6 of the FAQ, especially including
>> 6.6, 6.8, 6.12, etc....
>
> Also, fix your MTA configuration so it returns a 5xx status, not a 450
> for a non-existant domain.

To the best of my knowledge, this can not be ?fixed? (for Postfix). If  
Postfix is unable to obtain DNS settings for a domain, it will treat  
it as a temporary error, and will return 450, regardless of settings  
(and to me this seems correct, as not being able to obtain DNS  
settings is likely because something is down).

If on the other hand it _does_ find a name server for the domain and  
there is no MX record, _then_ can it be treated as a permanent error.

If others should run into this problem  
`reject_unknown_recipient_domain` was the setting I had to disable in  
Postfix?s `smtpd_recipient_restrictions`.


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jun 18 11:40:19 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:40:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive threading (pipermail)
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c47ce75684e9@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <5370-87082@sneakemail.com> <p06240801c47ce75684e9@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <16288-33501@sneakemail.com>

On 17 Jun 2008, at 06:01, Brad Knowles wrote:

> On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:
>> I copied a list's mbox to a new server and regenerated the archive.
>>
>> Unfortunately threading is not rendered satisfyingly, here are the
>> two Mailman/pipermail versions:
>
> Your threading got broken somehow, but I can't tell you how.  This  
> would need further investigation.
>
> One thing that strikes me is to ask whether you copied the "cooked"  
> text archives or the raw mbox archives, before regeneration?

Raw mbox file.

And new letters sent to the list also show up with wrong indent in the  
web archive.


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jun 18 11:51:20 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:51:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806171749170453c8955e56@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200806171749170453c8955e56@msapiro>
Message-ID: <15524-73524@sneakemail.com>

On 18 Jun 2008, at 02:49, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> [...]
>> Into `/etc/python2.5/sitecustomize.py`. This is despite proper setup
>> of `LC_CTYPE` on the system. Seems to me Mailman should use the
>> encoding of the current locale, not this site-wide Python default
>> encoding (settable by root only).
> I am aware of this issue, but I think the place to fix it is Python,
> not Mailman.

I don?t think Mailman should use `sys.getdefaultencoding()`. See <http://wiki.python.org/moin/DefaultEncoding 
 >. I think instead `locale.getdefaultlocale()` should be used for the  
CLI commands.

>> ## Mailing List
>>
>> The mailing list letters are correct _except_ that the body now
>> contains this:
>>
>>    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>    Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>>
>> And yes, each letter sent to the list is converted into base64.
>
> Again, this is the Python email library. If you prefer
> quoted-printable, set the language's charset to iso-8859-1.

But I occasionally use stuff that cannot be represented in latin-1?  
(like this line)

Anyway, point taken, Python MIME library is at fault and I will direct  
my concern to the maintainers of this.

Though I don?t understand why Mailman has to re-encode all letters to  
the list encoding. Hopefully it will only do so when the list encoding  
can actually represent the letter!?!

> [...]
> Did you restart Mailman after removing
>
>     add_language('en', 'English', 'utf-8')
>
> from mm_cfg.py? If so, and you're still getting utf-8 encoded list
> mail, the incoming posts are probably utf-8 encoded.

I must have not restarted at the proper time while testing, cause now  
I can get it work, i.e. messages now arrive without being base64.


From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Wed Jun 18 12:56:14 2008
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:56:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue problems
In-Reply-To: <715-77836@sneakemail.com>
References: <PC1870200806170953210640d242cc15@msapiro>
	<715-77836@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <20080618105614.GB15226@mail.incertum.net>

* Allan Odgaard <8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
> On 17 Jun 2008, at 18:53, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>> Brad Knowles wrote:
>> 
>>> On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I transferred a lot of list members from a previous list. A dozen
>>>> of these
>>>> has left errors like the following in `logs/smtp-failures`:
>>>> 
>>>>   delivery to <<address>> failed with code 450:
>>>>   4.1.2 <<address>>: Recipient address rejected:
>>>>   Domain not found
>>> 
>>> You're doing DNS validation on your outbound
>>> mail.  Don't do that.  Pay attention to the stuff
>>> in section 6 of the FAQ, especially including
>>> 6.6, 6.8, 6.12, etc....
>> 
>> Also, fix your MTA configuration so it returns a 5xx status, not a 450
>> for a non-existant domain.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, this can not be ?fixed? (for Postfix). If
> Postfix is unable to obtain DNS settings for a domain, it will treat
> it as a temporary error, and will return 450, regardless of settings
> (and to me this seems correct, as not being able to obtain DNS
> settings is likely because something is down).

postconf -e unknown_address_reject_code=550

Read the description of this setting - it will STILL return a 45x if
the error is _temporary_, whereas "temporary" is defined by your local
resolver library (this works very well in most cases).

> If on the other hand it _does_ find a name server for the domain and
> there is no MX record, _then_ can it be treated as a permanent error.

ITYM "no MX- and no A-RR".

> If others should run into this problem
> `reject_unknown_recipient_domain` was the setting I had to disable in
> Postfix?s `smtpd_recipient_restrictions`.

You can easily create a dedicated smtpd instance for injection of
mails generated by mailman. Have a look at
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030642 - I use

SMTPPORT = 10026 in /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py and in
/etc/postfix/master.cf:

127.0.0.1:10026 inet n  -       -     -       -  smtpd
    -o content_filter=
    -o mynetworks=127.0.0.0/8
    -o receive_override_options=no_header_body_checks,no_unknown_recipient_checks,no_milters
    -o smtpd_client_connection_count_limit=0
    -o smtpd_client_connection_rate_limit=0
    -o smtpd_error_sleep_time=0
    -o smtpd_soft_error_limit=1001
    -o smtpd_hard_error_limit=1000
    -o smtpd_restriction_classes=
    -o smtpd_client_restrictions=
    -o smtpd_helo_restrictions=
    -o smtpd_sender_restrictions=
    -o smtpd_recipient_restrictions=permit_mynetworks,reject
    -o smtpd_data_restrictions=reject_unauth_pipelining
    -o smtpd_end_of_data_restrictions=
    -o smtpd_delay_reject=no
    -o local_header_rewrite_clients=


Cheers
Stefan
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 18 16:09:44 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:09:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <15524-73524@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806180709440171f2180a17@msapiro>

Allan Odgaard" wrote:
>
>I don?t think Mailman should use `sys.getdefaultencoding()`. See <http://wiki.python.org/moin/DefaultEncoding>. I think instead `locale.getdefaultlocale()` should be used for the  
>CLI commands.


Since sys.getdefaultencoding() is going away, we'll have to do
something ;)


[...]
>Though I don?t understand why Mailman has to re-encode all letters to  
>the list encoding. Hopefully it will only do so when the list encoding  
>can actually represent the letter!?!


The process of adding the list header and/or footer to the message
attempts to add these to a text/plain body by coercing the body and
the header/footer to unicode, concatenating them and then coercing
back to the original body charset. If the last step doesn't work, it
will try to coerce to the charset of the list's preferred language.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at hlacik.eu  Wed Jun 18 16:20:28 2008
From: david at hlacik.eu (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?David_Hl=E1=E8ik?=)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:20:28 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News headers in mails gated from news
Message-ID: <cba415ca0806180720j38d4f14ci78525480a2a11d00@mail.gmail.com>

Hello mailman users,

I am using mailman script called from cron /usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
to synchronize mails between our company private only news server  (INN) and
our company mailing list.

When mail is gated from news to mailing list - news: header is not removed,
mailing list headers are added.

Unfortunately this scenario causes problem with users using great most
perfect in the world client Microsoft Outlook 2007, or Windows Mail :).

When employee click on "reply to all" Outlook will found "news:" header
inside mail and will try to add as one of recipient newsgroup where mail
originally comes from.
This is unwanted scenario as those users do not have news server configured.

Thanks in advance!

David

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Jun 18 17:24:34 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:24:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web UI request
Message-ID: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>

Mark Sapiro mentioned in another post that the web UI is in need of 
an update/overhaul.

I'd like to make one feature request for that which came to light 
with a bunch of non-technical users on one of my lists.

It is not obvious from the list information page how one would obtain 
a password reminder. You have to click the "Unsubscribe or edit 
options" button to get to the page with the password reminder button. 
This really needs to be FAR more obvious. It really should be an item 
on the very first page a user sees.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From barry at list.org  Wed Jun 18 17:28:17 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:28:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web UI request
In-Reply-To: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>
References: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <F95D9511-6E4C-4D70-B9ED-44B612BF5146@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Jun 18, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Dragon wrote:

> Mark Sapiro mentioned in another post that the web UI is in need of  
> an update/overhaul.
>
> I'd like to make one feature request for that which came to light  
> with a bunch of non-technical users on one of my lists.
>
> It is not obvious from the list information page how one would  
> obtain a password reminder. You have to click the "Unsubscribe or  
> edit options" button to get to the page with the password reminder  
> button. This really needs to be FAR more obvious. It really should  
> be an item on the very first page a user sees.

In future versions there will be no reminders.  Please, a moment of  
silence for the future death of Mailman Day. :)

There will be a password reset feature though and that should be  
plainly obvious on any new u/i we develop.

- -Barry

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From terri at zone12.com  Wed Jun 18 17:41:55 2008
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:41:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web UI request
In-Reply-To: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>
References: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <5F07D492-396B-4992-A162-555A953C741B@zone12.com>

On 18-Jun-08, at 11:24 AM, Dragon wrote:

> Mark Sapiro mentioned in another post that the web UI is in need of  
> an update/overhaul.
>
> I'd like to make one feature request for that which came to light  
> with a bunch of non-technical users on one of my lists.
>
> It is not obvious from the list information page how one would  
> obtain a password reminder. You have to click the "Unsubscribe or  
> edit options" button to get to the page with the password reminder  
> button. This really needs to be FAR more obvious. It really should  
> be an item on the very first page a user sees.
>

Agreed!  And thanks for mentioning it -- the more user input we get,  
the better!  It's a bit hard to make everything obvious on that first  
page, but I'd definitely like to see us improve the functionality for  
existing members (right now the page is clearly optimized for new  
subscribers).  Would it make more sense to have just a giant  
"existing list members click here" and a separate page that's  
targetted at existing members, or do you think we can do both things  
in one place? Saving that click can be a big deal...

Hmmm... now you've got me thinking about it again.  Perhaps some good  
will come of this. ;)

  Terri

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 18 17:45:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:45:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive threading (pipermail)
In-Reply-To: <16288-33501@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061808455102964e55e05b@msapiro>

Allan Odgaard wrote:
>
>Raw mbox file.
>
>And new letters sent to the list also show up with wrong indent in the  
>web archive.


I'm only guessing, but I think there must have been some issue with the
mbox file that caused the archive database file to be messed up.

Does a new list work OK?

What does bin/cleanarch say about the mbox file?  Did bin/arch report
anything odd?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jun 18 17:49:42 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 10:49:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue problems
In-Reply-To: <715-77836@sneakemail.com>
References: <PC1870200806170953210640d242cc15@msapiro>
	<715-77836@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <48592E96.5060103@shub-internet.org>

Allan Odgaard wrote:

> If others should run into this problem `reject_unknown_recipient_domain` 
> was the setting I had to disable in Postfix?s 
> `smtpd_recipient_restrictions`.

We run postfix on python.org.  This option is not disabled on our machine, 
because we have a separate copy of postfix listening on a different port on 
the localhost IP address, and this copy of postfix disables all that 
anti-spam/DNS checking, etc....

It is not necessary to recommend to others that they disable this feature on 
their copy of postfix.  Instead, you should be recommending to them exactly 
what I recommended to you, which was to run a second copy of postfix with 
all checks disabled and have Mailman deliver to that second copy of postfix.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jun 18 17:51:32 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 10:51:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <16288-61549@sneakemail.com>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com> <16288-61549@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <48592F04.5090600@shub-internet.org>

Allan Odgaard wrote:

> I don?t think it will verify that the domain is the proper one (for 
> mails sent to each list), but it should be simple to duplicate the 
> service as mailman-list-a, b, c and setup the different ones to be used 
> as transport for the different list domains (via transport_maps in 
> postfix/main.cf), that way, Postfix will help do the validation.

Doesn't work for the purpose of the OP.  This method doesn't allow you to 
have the same list name for different lists under different domains. 
Running multiple copies of Mailman *will* allow you to do that, but it takes 
a lot more care-and-feeding, and is a pain to set up.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 18 17:53:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:53:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061808535507344e55e215@msapiro>

adsarebad at gmail.com wrote:
>
>I have searched all over for how to do true virtual list with mailman 
>and finely decided to run multiple mailman installs side by side.
>
>However when setting up the fist mailman install I have ran into a 
>wall.  In mm_cfg.py
>
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domian.com']
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>
>When I make a new list I end up with data/aliases
>
>fun:             "|/usr/local/mailman/domain/mail/mailman post fun"
>
>and so on.  In data/virtual-mailman
>
>fun at domain.com              fun
>
>
>The problem is I need a table that says
>
>fun at domain.com    "|/usr/local/mailman/domain/mail/mailman post fun"


I think what you actually need is something like

fun at domain.com              fun_domain

in virtual_mailman and

fun_domain:        "|/usr/local/mailman/domain/mail/mailman post fun"

in aliases.

You would need to modify Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py to produce this, or set
MTA = 'Manual' in mm_cfg.py and do your aliases manually.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jaco at kroon.co.za  Wed Jun 18 18:14:45 2008
From: jaco at kroon.co.za (Jaco Kroon)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:14:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue problems
In-Reply-To: <715-77836@sneakemail.com>
References: <PC1870200806170953210640d242cc15@msapiro>
	<715-77836@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <48593475.3050109@kroon.co.za>

Allan Odgaard wrote:
> On 17 Jun 2008, at 18:53, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>> Brad Knowles wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:
>>>
>>>> I transferred a lot of list members from a previous list. A dozen of 
>>>> these
>>>> has left errors like the following in `logs/smtp-failures`:
>>>>
>>>>    delivery to <<address>> failed with code 450:
>>>>    4.1.2 <<address>>: Recipient address rejected:
>>>>    Domain not found
>>>
>>> You're doing DNS validation on your outbound
>>> mail.  Don't do that.  Pay attention to the stuff
>>> in section 6 of the FAQ, especially including
>>> 6.6, 6.8, 6.12, etc....
>>
>> Also, fix your MTA configuration so it returns a 5xx status, not a 450
>> for a non-existant domain.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, this can not be ?fixed? (for Postfix). If 
> Postfix is unable to obtain DNS settings for a domain, it will treat it 
> as a temporary error, and will return 450, regardless of settings (and 
> to me this seems correct, as not being able to obtain DNS settings is 
> likely because something is down).

Unless you get an authoritative NXDOMAIN, in which case the domain does 
not exist.  Period.

> If on the other hand it _does_ find a name server for the domain and 
> there is no MX record, _then_ can it be treated as a permanent error.

NOT TRUE.  The RFC states that in the case of no MX record the domain 
name itself should be treated as the only MX record.

> If others should run into this problem `reject_unknown_recipient_domain` 
> was the setting I had to disable in Postfix?s 
> `smtpd_recipient_restrictions`.

Oh.  Not normally a good idea, but in this case I'd agree.  With exim I 
simply accept everything being injected with the sendmail command (as 
well as connecting from localhost but destined for a non-local domain), 
which does something a little different from this, but works very well.

Jaco

From carloswill at gmail.com  Wed Jun 18 18:45:34 2008
From: carloswill at gmail.com (Carlos Williams)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:45:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fresh Install Fails To Start
Message-ID: <d80f793f0806180945i6e88faffsa68a13e90367e62e@mail.gmail.com>

I just installed Mailman 2.1.9 on my new server and I cd
/usr/lib/mailman/bin and ran the ./newlist script:

[root at email bin]# ./newlist
Enter the name of the list: zoo
Enter the email of the person running the list: carloswill at example.com
Initial zoo password:
To finish creating your mailing list, you must edit your /etc/aliases (or
equivalent) file by adding the following lines, and possibly running the
`newaliases' program:

## zoo mailing list
zoo:              "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post zoo"
zoo-admin:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin zoo"
zoo-bounces:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces zoo"
zoo-confirm:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm zoo"
zoo-join:         "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join zoo"
zoo-leave:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave zoo"
zoo-owner:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner zoo"
zoo-request:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request zoo"
zoo-subscribe:    "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe zoo"
zoo-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe zoo"

Hit enter to notify zoo owner...

Now when I try and start Mailman, I get the following:

[root at email bin]# /etc/init.d/mailman start
Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman
                                                           [FAILED]
When I check /var/log/mailman/error, I get the same message for every
time I attempted to start
the service. Anyone know what I am doing wrong? I can say that
Postfix, Apache, or any other
service on this server is not running so I don't know if Mailman does
not like that...this was the
1st thing I decided to configure on the new email server.

Thanks for any info / help!

From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jun 18 18:51:42 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:51:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <48592F04.5090600@shub-internet.org>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com> <16288-61549@sneakemail.com>
	<48592F04.5090600@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <1175-03828@sneakemail.com>

On 18 Jun 2008, at 17:51, Brad Knowles wrote:

> Allan Odgaard wrote:
>
>> I don?t think it will verify that the domain is the proper one (for  
>> mails sent to each list), but it should be simple to duplicate the  
>> service as mailman-list-a, b, c and setup the different ones to be  
>> used as transport for the different list domains (via  
>> transport_maps in postfix/main.cf), that way, Postfix will help do  
>> the validation.
>
> Doesn't work for the purpose of the OP.  This method doesn't allow  
> you to have the same list name for different lists under different  
> domains. Running multiple copies of Mailman *will* allow you to do  
> that, but it takes a lot more care-and-feeding, and is a pain to set  
> up.

By ?it should be simple to duplicate the service [?]? I meant  
duplicate it so that mailman-list-a calls mailman-install-a, etc.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jun 18 18:52:17 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:52:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fresh Install Fails To Start
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0806180945i6e88faffsa68a13e90367e62e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d80f793f0806180945i6e88faffsa68a13e90367e62e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48593D41.9020607@shub-internet.org>

Carlos Williams wrote:

> [root at email bin]# /etc/init.d/mailman start
> Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman

You didn't create the site list, as directed by the documentation.  See 
<http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node40.html>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Jun 18 18:54:14 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:54:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fresh Install Fails To Start
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0806180945i6e88faffsa68a13e90367e62e@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <d80f793f0806180945i6e88faffsa68a13e90367e62e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200806181652.m5IGpuRp001169@newbox.eroded.org>

Carlos Williams wrote:


>Now when I try and start Mailman, I get the following:
>
>[root at email bin]# /etc/init.d/mailman start
>Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman
>                                                            [FAILED]
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

The cause is obvious. You have no list named mailman. You MUST have 
this list. Without it, mailman does not function.

The mailman installation instructions tell you to do this before 
trying to start mailman.

See:
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node40.html



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jun 18 18:54:05 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:54:05 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive threading (pipermail)
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008061808455102964e55e05b@msapiro>
References: <PC18702008061808455102964e55e05b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <17166-52857@sneakemail.com>

On 18 Jun 2008, at 17:45, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Allan Odgaard wrote:
>>
>> Raw mbox file.
>>
>> And new letters sent to the list also show up with wrong indent in  
>> the
>> web archive.
>
> I'm only guessing, but I think there must have been some issue with  
> the
> mbox file that caused the archive database file to be messed up.
>
> Does a new list work OK?

A new list show the same problem.

> What does bin/cleanarch say about the mbox file?  Did bin/arch report
> anything odd?

I don?t recall so. But since this happens both for new letters to this  
list, and for a completely new list I created a few days ago, I don?t  
think the problem is the mbox.

I?ll see if I can get access to another Mailman version and generate  
the archive from there.

If I didn?t state already, this is Mailman 2.1.9 under Ubuntu  
(installed via aptitude).



From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jun 18 19:00:40 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:00:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue problems
In-Reply-To: <48592E96.5060103@shub-internet.org>
References: <PC1870200806170953210640d242cc15@msapiro>
	<715-77836@sneakemail.com> <48592E96.5060103@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <10776-21232@sneakemail.com>

On 18 Jun 2008, at 17:49, Brad Knowles wrote:

> [...]
> It is not necessary to recommend to others that they disable this  
> feature on their copy of postfix.  Instead, you should be  
> recommending to them exactly what I recommended to you, which was to  
> run a second copy of postfix with all checks disabled and have  
> Mailman deliver to that second copy of postfix.

Wow? just wow?

I didn?t recommend anything, I reported my findings pointing to the  
setting which was problematic in this context. I figured people  
running into it will appreciate having the full info available before  
they decide what solution to pick.

Personally I prefer just disabling the check rather than run a new  
copy of Postfix, but each to his own.


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jun 18 19:14:10 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:14:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806180709440171f2180a17@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200806180709440171f2180a17@msapiro>
Message-ID: <10776-11602@sneakemail.com>

On 18 Jun 2008, at 16:09, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> [...]
> The process of adding the list header and/or footer to the message
> attempts to add these to a text/plain body by coercing the body and
> the header/footer to unicode, concatenating them and then coercing
> back to the original body charset. If the last step doesn't work, it
> will try to coerce to the charset of the list's preferred language.

My list header/footer is pure ASCII. So there should never be a  
problem going back to the original body encoding.

So should I consider it a bug that setting list encoding to utf-8 will  
(in my experience) _always_ produce (base 64 encoded) utf-8 letters,  
when both header/footer and letter itself sent to list is ASCII?

Here is what I did to test: Set list encoding to utf-8 (in mm_cfg.py).  
Created a new list (called Test) and subscribed to it. Even the  
welcome letter contained:

     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
     Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
     Subject: =?utf-8?q?Welcome_to_the_=22Test=22_mailing_list?=

Notice here the subject was sent as utf-8 even though it is pure  
ASCII, the body was likewise encoded.

I then sent one letter to this list, subject set to Test and body  
likewise. I ensured that the produced letter was sent with encoding  
set to ASCII. The letter I received as a subscriber was one giant  
block of base64 encoded text with charset set to utf-8.


From terri at zone12.com  Wed Jun 18 19:20:41 2008
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:20:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0787C070-7FF9-4E3B-8B0D-4C543627600F@zone12.com>

On 18-Jun-08, at 4:04 AM, adsarebad at gmail.com wrote:

> I have searched all over for how to do true virtual list with  
> mailman and finely decided to run multiple mailman installs side by  
> side.
>

This doesn't answer your questions, but have you considered giving  
the lists unique names, but doing aliasing so that they look right to  
the users?

For example, if you want to have discussion at example1.com and  
discussion at example2.com,

Mailman could believe that these are

discussion-example1 at example1.com
discussion-example2 at example2.com

(distinct names)

But then you can set up discussion at example1.com to point to  
discussion-example1 at example1.com and ditto for example2.  You users  
use the shorter names to post to the lists, alter other settings like  
the prefix tag to match, and in theory everyone's happy. :)

The reason I mention this:
You may have some reason for wanting true virtual domains and have  
already discarded this idea, but I've found some clever aliasing is a  
good enough solution for a lot of people, and it's a lot easier than  
running multiple installations or using patches.

Also, there's an FAQ entry on this but (in my opinion) it seems like  
it could use an update:

http://wiki.list.org/x/jIA9

If you found other resources that you found useful, please add them  
to that wiki page!

  Terri


From tmz at pobox.com  Wed Jun 18 19:39:32 2008
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:39:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] selinux postfix + mailman
In-Reply-To: <266220.90701.qm@web76115.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>
References: <266220.90701.qm@web76115.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080618173932.GH2641@inocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Dony Tata wrote:
> how to configure selinux on centos 5 , i use postfix and mailman,if
> selinux set enabled, i have got error in /var/log/mailman/error
> "command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias /etc/mailman/aliases (status:
> 1, Operation not permitted)", if selinux set disabled, it's work
> fine. But i want set selinux to enable and postfix + mailman works
> fine...

A better place to get help on this would be a CentOS list or the
fedora-selinux-list.  You would also need to include the full AVC
message from the audit log (/var/log/audit/audit.log).

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So live that you can look any man in the eye and tell him to go to
hell.
    -- Anonymous

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From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jun 18 19:56:50 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:56:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web UI request
In-Reply-To: <5F07D492-396B-4992-A162-555A953C741B@zone12.com>
References: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>
	<5F07D492-396B-4992-A162-555A953C741B@zone12.com>
Message-ID: <12403-89308@sneakemail.com>

On 18 Jun 2008, at 17:41, Terri Oda wrote:

> [...] the more user input we get, the better!

Another thread said that ?the web UI is scheduled for overhaul?.

Is anyone assigned to this? Is it an open process? Can we follow it  
somewhere?

I think the admin UI suffers from:

   1. Too many options.
   2. Weak categorization.
   3. Typographically bad, e.g. no visual cues about significance,  
related options, etc. and right-aligned labels make it difficult to  
skim down through a page.
   4. Labels are too verbose, contributing with noise to the overall  
view, and the ?Details for ?the_mailman_option_name?? under each label  
does not help in this regard.

I believe the current UI is generated from the Defaults.py, which is a  
contributing factor to some of the above. Is the plan to keep  
generating the UI, or would it be OK to actually design a UI?  
Switching to a designed one means more work when adding new options  
that require UI, but considering that the current UI has been the same  
for as long as I can remember, it?s not exactly a moving target.

Also, having the lists themselves stored as pickled objects make it  
problematic to leave stuff out of the web UI, but I would strongly  
suggest that the lists switch to using a plain text format.

Anyway, for the overhauled web UI, I will gladly participate in the  
process, if I am welcomed, but I think it might be a little  
controversial because I probably want to cut all the options I  
consider unnecessary, for example does an admin really need a web UI  
for setting whether or not digest users are allowed to switch to  
immediate mail delivery? etc.

I think a first step would be to find out what options actually are  
necessary in the web UI (and presently there are some stuff not  
available that I would like to have there, for example the list URLs  
really should be visible in the web UI). Next step would then be to  
categorize this stuff sensibly, and after that, we can look at mockups.

But as indicated above, at least step 1 should probably not be done  
?by committee? because you want to be harsh and not include some  
arcane option that one guy argue is really very useful to him :)

If the pickled lists were instead plain text, that would be much  
easier, because then it could be a very clearly stated goal that the  
web UI is for the stuff most of us want most of the time, and for the  
more exotic stuff, there is the list config file.



From manuel at escapade.ch  Wed Jun 18 19:58:21 2008
From: manuel at escapade.ch (Manuel Goepfert)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:58:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives generation on new server
Message-ID: <01db01c8d16c$e5a29610$5510a8c0@coolman>

Hi Everybody,

I'm currently moving to a new server my lists. Old version is 2.1.7 new
version is 2.1.9

While moving the lists themself is really easy, I have an issue with the
archives. It seems that the "accents" like ??? are not properly handled.

The content-type from the headers is charset=ISO-8859-1

I've tryed to google or look into the FAQ without success so far, if you
could point me to a page or advice how i could proceed ?

Many thanks

Manuel


From terri at zone12.com  Wed Jun 18 20:32:06 2008
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:32:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web UI request
In-Reply-To: <12403-89308@sneakemail.com>
References: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>
	<5F07D492-396B-4992-A162-555A953C741B@zone12.com>
	<12403-89308@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <5CB0EE34-78B7-4001-A81D-275B8485854F@zone12.com>


On 18-Jun-08, at 1:56 PM, Allan Odgaard wrote:

> On 18 Jun 2008, at 17:41, Terri Oda wrote:
>
>> [...] the more user input we get, the better!
>
> Another thread said that ?the web UI is scheduled for overhaul?.
>
> Is anyone assigned to this? Is it an open process? Can we follow it  
> somewhere?

The last major push was last summer, as part of a Summer of Code  
project: http://wiki.list.org/x/2Q  I think Ethan's still doing some  
work here, but I don't know what his status is.

I believe there was also some work done on basic CSS conversion that  
was more recent.

I've opened up a new page on the wiki to get more of a process going:

http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Web+Interface

> 1. Too many options.


Agreed.  My solution would be to have an "expert" and a "simple"  
interface.  Three reasons:

1. Even *as* an expert, I'd love to have a small interface that met  
my most common needs.
2. Choosing what options to keep and which to toss would likely slow  
down the process so much that we'd never get a new interface.
3. Giving people access to files is more of a pain than letting them  
interact through a web UI.  (eg - don't have to worry about shell  
access, bad file syntax, etc.)

>   2. Weak categorization.

Agreed.  Often the option people want is there, but not where they  
look.  And even writing the documentation, I've found myself hard- 
pressed to explain some things.

>   3. Typographically bad, e.g. no visual cues about significance,  
> related options, etc. and right-aligned labels make it difficult to  
> skim down through a page.

Agreed that there's some visual stuff that needs work.  Mostly, I  
find it just looks old and clunky and too busy.

>   4. Labels are too verbose, contributing with noise to the overall  
> view, and the ?Details for ?the_mailman_option_name?? under each  
> label does not help in this regard.

I've got mixed feelings about this.  The labels do contribute to  
noise, but they also provide the ability for me to tell people  
"change the setting with name $foo" *or* describe the description if  
I'm not near a computer to check the stuff myself.  The longer labels  
also make it easier for people looking at the interface the first  
time to figure out what things do at a glance instead of having to  
click each details button to find the one they want.


The web interface for 3.0 is going to be *very* different from the  
2.1 stuff because a lot of things are just going to go away or  
appear.  But I think we'd do well to think seriously about making 2.2  
have an improved interface.   Honestly, I feel that the web UI which  
used to be Mailman's strength has lately become its biggest weakness.

I've been putting my thought into organizing the documentation lately  
(as anyone who's been following the wiki has no doubt noted), but I'm  
almost done what I wanted to do there, and I want to be writing code  
next.  I'd been planning on tackling the archiver, but perhaps I  
should take a harder look at web UI for my next project.

  Terri


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Wed Jun 18 22:14:00 2008
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:14:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web UI request
In-Reply-To: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org> (message from
	Dragon on Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:24:34 -0700)
References: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <200806182014.m5IKE0fo015251@b.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:24:34 -0700
   From: Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com>

   It is not obvious from the list information page how one would obtain a
   password reminder. You have to click the "Unsubscribe or edit options"
   button to get to the page with the password reminder button.  This
   really needs to be FAR more obvious. It really should be an item on the
   very first page a user sees.

I second this.  Subscribers losing their password and asking me to make
changes for them is one of my biggest timesinks, outside of moderation.

Cyndi


From brad at python.org  Wed Jun 18 22:18:12 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:18:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web UI request
In-Reply-To: <12403-89308@sneakemail.com>
References: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>	<5F07D492-396B-4992-A162-555A953C741B@zone12.com>
	<12403-89308@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <48596D84.3070308@python.org>

Allan Odgaard wrote:

> Another thread said that ?the web UI is scheduled for overhaul?.
> 
> Is anyone assigned to this? Is it an open process? Can we follow it 
> somewhere?

This is a development issue, and would be discussed on the 
mailman-developers mailing list.  The rest of this thread should really be 
moved over there.

> I believe the current UI is generated from the Defaults.py, which is a 
> contributing factor to some of the above.

The Web UI is generated by various bits of Python code throughout the 
system.  Defaults.py is how standard defaults are picked up that are used 
throughout all of Mailman -- not just the Web UI.

The Web UI and the rest of the Mailman code are pretty tightly integrated. 
You can't just rip out one file and replace it with something else, and have 
everything magically changed.

> Also, having the lists themselves stored as pickled objects make it 
> problematic to leave stuff out of the web UI, but I would strongly 
> suggest that the lists switch to using a plain text format.

In Mailman3, I believe that all of this stuff is going to be stored in a 
proper database, and not in Python pickles.  With the appropriate back-end 
database connector, you should be able to choose what database is used to 
store this information.

> If the pickled lists were instead plain text, that would be much easier, 
> because then it could be a very clearly stated goal that the web UI is 
> for the stuff most of us want most of the time, and for the more exotic 
> stuff, there is the list config file.

We're going the opposite direction.  There may be a simplified WebUI that is 
available to certain users or certain administrators, but we've had too many 
problems with things that can only be done by the site admin who has full 
privileged access to the server in question.


For Mailman3, I believe that one of the goals is that *EVERYTHING* that can 
possibly be done with Mailman will be do-able through at least the full 
incarnation of the WebUI.

At that point, everything the site admin can do could be done through the 
site admin WebUI, and if they wanted to restrict certain features/functions 
from being visible to the list owners or moderators, they would be able to 
do that, but you would no longer require any privileged command-line access 
to the server in question, unless you were doing the first-time install.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 18 22:46:06 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:46:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive threading (pipermail)
In-Reply-To: <17166-52857@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806181346060187ad3d1c01@msapiro>

Allan Odgaard wrote:

>On 18 Jun 2008, at 17:45, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Does a new list work OK?
>
>A new list show the same problem.
>
>> What does bin/cleanarch say about the mbox file?  Did bin/arch report
>> anything odd?
>
>I don?t recall so. But since this happens both for new letters to this  
>list, and for a completely new list I created a few days ago, I don?t  
>think the problem is the mbox.
>
>I?ll see if I can get access to another Mailman version and generate  
>the archive from there.
>
>If I didn?t state already, this is Mailman 2.1.9 under Ubuntu  
>(installed via aptitude).


I have never before seen a report like this. Since it occurs for a new
list, there is apparently something wrong with the Mailman
installation itself. If it were a problem with the Ubuntu package, I
think it would have been seen elsewhere, so I think it's likely
specific to your installation, but I have no idea what might cause it.

Pipermail does threading by Message-ID and by In-Reply-To and
References: headers, so assuming that those are normal and people
aren't hijacking threads, I haven't a clue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 18 23:16:33 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:16:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives generation on new server
In-Reply-To: <01db01c8d16c$e5a29610$5510a8c0@coolman>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061814163307189aa8bdaf@msapiro>

Manuel Goepfert wrote:
>
>While moving the lists themself is really easy, I have an issue with the
>archives. It seems that the "accents" like ??? are not properly handled.
>
>The content-type from the headers is charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>I've tryed to google or look into the FAQ without success so far, if you
>could point me to a page or advice how i could proceed ?


I suspect the issue is that the archive pages are in one character set
(iso-8859-1 ?) and the web server is declaring them to be something
else (utf-8 ?). If this is Apache, see the AddDefaultCharset directive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 18 23:27:29 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:27:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <48595C1D.2070108@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020080618142729067151b3da3c@msapiro>

adsarebad at gmail.com wrote:
>>   
>Hmm..  It would be easy to write a little script to edit the tables 
>mailman makes to be right but I don`t know how I would get mailman to 
>call my script instead of (is it postmap?)...?  I was looking through 
>the mailman source for a call to postmap but could not find one, I guess 
>I would have to search a little deeper.  Or is it something else?  I 
>will have a look at Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py and see whats there.  Thanks!


Mailman (actually, Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py) calls the commands (with
defaults)

POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'

after updating aliases and virtual-mailman. You can override thes in
mm_cfg.py to, e.g., invoke a script which does some edits and then
calls the command. This would avoid maintaining patches to
Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jaco at kroon.co.za  Wed Jun 18 23:37:35 2008
From: jaco at kroon.co.za (Jaco Kroon)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:37:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web UI request
In-Reply-To: <5CB0EE34-78B7-4001-A81D-275B8485854F@zone12.com>
References: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>	<5F07D492-396B-4992-A162-555A953C741B@zone12.com>	<12403-89308@sneakemail.com>
	<5CB0EE34-78B7-4001-A81D-275B8485854F@zone12.com>
Message-ID: <4859801F.4010700@kroon.co.za>

Hi,

Just some background about myself and why I lurk on this list:  I'm 
someone that contracts with some ISPs, maintaining various different 
kind of servers, amongst others a few Mailman servers.  I run Mailman 
with a single self-cooked patch for these folks (patch is for virtual 
hosting, isn't perfect, but is available from 
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=208789), partially based on the 
cpanel hack.

Terri Oda wrote:
>> 1. Too many options.
> 
> Agreed.  My solution would be to have an "expert" and a "simple" 
> interface.  Three reasons:
> 
> 1. Even *as* an expert, I'd love to have a small interface that met my 
> most common needs.

Not only that, some people are severely intimidated by the sheer number 
of options.  Imagine your average reception lady trying to make head or 
tails of half the options in Mailman.

> 2. Choosing what options to keep and which to toss would likely slow 
> down the process so much that we'd never get a new interface.

I tamper with most of the options from time to time, so I would want to 
keep the lot, but the simple vs expert idea is a good one.

> 3. Giving people access to files is more of a pain than letting them 
> interact through a web UI.  (eg - don't have to worry about shell 
> access, bad file syntax, etc.)

No.  In a hosting environment giving shell access like this for multiple 
clients is a no go.  So as someone that contracts for ISPs I'll back 
this idea.  Shell access should ideally _never_ be required for normal 
operation.  Obviously I don't mind doing problem-finding in the shell 
(in fact, I personally prefer that - but for clients this is a no go).

Just to make it clear, it's not that security cannot be controlled, if I 
tell my average client they need to use a shell - they'll run away.

4.  Telling a client (admin from virtual isp) to "leave the expert 
options the heck along or else" would be much simpler than "please only 
modify options a b and c".

A possible further enhancement to this would be to have an additional 
admin level.  Basically exactly the same as an admin, but not allowed to 
use advanced mode.  Not sure about the rest of the world, but this would 
be extremely handy for me (can give the lady that first level support 
the restricted login only, second level support the full, and then keep 
shell for my trained technicians).

>>   2. Weak categorization.
> 
> Agreed.  Often the option people want is there, but not where they 
> look.  And even writing the documentation, I've found myself 
> hard-pressed to explain some things.

Thirded.

>>   3. Typographically bad, e.g. no visual cues about significance, 
>> related options, etc. and right-aligned labels make it difficult to 
>> skim down through a page.
> 
> Agreed that there's some visual stuff that needs work.  Mostly, I find 
> it just looks old and clunky and too busy.

This stuff doesn't bother me *too* badly.  However, the ability to 
customize look & feel would be advantageous, not required.  Not sure how 
easy this would be.  I can probably already do what I want by (ab)using 
libcurl and/or iframes.

>>   4. Labels are too verbose, contributing with noise to the overall 
>> view, and the ?Details for ?the_mailman_option_name?? under each label 
>> does not help in this regard.
> 
> I've got mixed feelings about this.  The labels do contribute to noise, 
> but they also provide the ability for me to tell people "change the 
> setting with name $foo" *or* describe the description if I'm not near a 
> computer to check the stuff myself.  The longer labels also make it 
> easier for people looking at the interface the first time to figure out 
> what things do at a glance instead of having to click each details 
> button to find the one they want.

However overs?  Not sure if you're familiar with Trixbox but it's the 
only example I can think of at the moment.  Their implementation just 
isn't particularly good.

> The web interface for 3.0 is going to be *very* different from the 2.1 
> stuff because a lot of things are just going to go away or appear.  But 
> I think we'd do well to think seriously about making 2.2 have an 
> improved interface.   Honestly, I feel that the web UI which used to be 
> Mailman's strength has lately become its biggest weakness.

I wouldn't quite go that far.  Trust me, it's still much, much better 
than not having it at all.

> I've been putting my thought into organizing the documentation lately 
> (as anyone who's been following the wiki has no doubt noted), but I'm 
> almost done what I wanted to do there, and I want to be writing code 
> next.  I'd been planning on tackling the archiver, but perhaps I should 
> take a harder look at web UI for my next project.

What can I do to help convince you?  I don't have spare cycles at the 
moment to contribute code (sorry, just about every spare second is going 
into VoIP and mail clustering systems at the moment).

May I also suggest some level of reporting?  There is currently some 
elementary virtual hosting support, so only certain lists gets displayed 
when using a certain web interface.  At least one of my clients (An ISP) 
is interested in reports that basically states how many emails went out 
to a list during a month, and then for each message how many recipients 
was in the database at the time of sending, as well as how big each 
message was.  I need to take a look at this in any case, and would be 
willing to throw resources at this, but I'm going to need a few pointers 
to how where and what.

Another idea - and this may or may not be viable - templatized list 
creation.  In other words, different templates that pre-sets options, 
these templates are then copied into the new list when a new list is 
created.  I don't create too many lists myself, but I know one of my 
clients has two or different "standard" setups, and then have a long 
list of steps to take to go from the default setup to that specific setup.

Regards, and thanks for a great product,
Jaco

From mikej at paymentallianceintl.com  Wed Jun 18 21:52:01 2008
From: mikej at paymentallianceintl.com (Michael Jung)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:52:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing Files config.db/config.db.last
Message-ID: <ADC733B130BF1D4A82795B6B3A2654E2DA88C3@exchange.paymentallianceintl.com>

RE: mailman-2.1.9_5  

I have a list "crew" that is running and functional from the standpoint
the list is working.  It has a very static list of users that seldom
changes.

Today it was brought to my attention that the web interface was not
working.  

Upon finding tracebacks in the mailman/logs/error file I decided to run
check_db which reports two missing files for each list. I have no clue
how these got deleted.  

I've started going back through old backup tapes but apparently these
have been missing for some extended period of time.  Is there an easy
way to reconstruct these without nuking my list (which has been running
for some 10 years now) - I don't want to loose history.

Thanks in advance.

--mikej

(root at firewall) /usr/local/mailman# bin/check_db -v -a
List: crew
   /usr/local/mailman/lists/crew/config.pck: okay
   /usr/local/mailman/lists/crew/config.pck.last: okay
    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/crew/config.db'
    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/crew/config.db.last'
List: mailman
   /usr/local/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck: okay
   /usr/local/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck.last: okay
    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/mailman/config.db'
    [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/mailman/config.db.last'
(root at firewall) /usr/local/mailman#

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This message is intended only for the use
of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain 
information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from 
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is 
not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication 
is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission 
in error, please notify us by telephone at (502) 212-4001 or 
notify us at PAI , Dept. 99, 11857 Commonwealth Drive, 
Louisville, KY  40299.  Thank you.

From jeff.donsbach at gmail.com  Thu Jun 19 00:17:15 2008
From: jeff.donsbach at gmail.com (Jeff Donsbach)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:17:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list messages lost to Hotmail subscribers lost
Message-ID: <22976ef80806181517y7de7b2f9h79db47faf2395d7a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
   I recently started having delivery problems with list messages to
Hotmail subscribers. The problem seems to have started on or around
June 10. I checked the syslog file and was seeing occasional (452 too
many recipients for delivery) errors. I changed SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to 5
and SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION to 5 as well. That seems to have
cleared up the '452' errors. All messages handed off to Hotmail users
in the last 24 hours or so have (250  <messageid at domain.tld> Queued
mail for delivery)  successful return codes (as far as I see). Yet,
none of the list subscribers are receiving messages. If I send a test
message to some of the subscribers directly (not via Mailman), they
get it.

Beyond telling people to dump Hotmail, does anyone have any "best
practices" they can share for getting Mailman messages delivered to
Hotmail subscribers successfully? I have already read FAQ 3.42 on the
new FAQ wiki (thanks, Barry and Co). And, I have already read -
http://postmaster.live.com/Guidelines.aspx , and my co-admin and I are
looking into implementing SenderId/SPF keys for the domain DNS
records.

Any other advice for Hotmail?
Thanks in advance

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 19 00:17:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:17:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing Files config.db/config.db.last
In-Reply-To: <ADC733B130BF1D4A82795B6B3A2654E2DA88C3@exchange.paymentallianceintl.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806181517180640dbb65e92@msapiro>

Michael Jung wrote:

>RE: mailman-2.1.9_5  
>
>I have a list "crew" that is running and functional from the standpoint
>the list is working.  It has a very static list of users that seldom
>changes.
>
>Today it was brought to my attention that the web interface was not
>working.  
>
>Upon finding tracebacks in the mailman/logs/error file I decided to run
>check_db which reports two missing files for each list. I have no clue
>how these got deleted.  


They didn't get deleted. They were never there. They are for pre
Mailman 2.1.x only. check_perms notes their absense, but this is
normal and not a problem.

Your tracebacks are for some other reason. If the tracebacks/error log
messages refer to missing config.db* files, it is because the
config.pck* files are corrupt or otherwise unusable, and Mailman is
attempting to fall back to the config.db* files, but the problem in
this case is not missing config.db* files, it is something wrong with
the config.pck* files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 19 00:24:25 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:24:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <10776-11602@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061815242505159aa8bcdc@msapiro>

Allan Odgaard wrote:

>On 18 Jun 2008, at 16:09, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> The process of adding the list header and/or footer to the message
>> attempts to add these to a text/plain body by coercing the body and
>> the header/footer to unicode, concatenating them and then coercing
>> back to the original body charset. If the last step doesn't work, it
>> will try to coerce to the charset of the list's preferred language.
>
>My list header/footer is pure ASCII. So there should never be a  
>problem going back to the original body encoding.


Actually, I misspoke above. The preferred encoding is that of the
list's preferred language. The incoming message encoding is the
fallback.


>So should I consider it a bug that setting list encoding to utf-8 will  
>(in my experience) _always_ produce (base 64 encoded) utf-8 letters,  
>when both header/footer and letter itself sent to list is ASCII?


You may consider it a bug if you wish. It is intentional (but still
perhaps wrong) that the message is coerced to the character set of the
list's preferred language when msg_header and/or msg_footer are added.

The base64 encoding for a utf-8 message is a separate issue and is done
by the Python email library.


>Here is what I did to test: Set list encoding to utf-8 (in mm_cfg.py).  
>Created a new list (called Test) and subscribed to it. Even the  
>welcome letter contained:
>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>     Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>     Subject: =?utf-8?q?Welcome_to_the_=22Test=22_mailing_list?=


This is a 'virgin' message from Mailman which will always be in the
charset of the list's or user's preferred language, so no surprise
here.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 19 00:49:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:49:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list messages lost to Hotmail subscribers lost
In-Reply-To: <22976ef80806181517y7de7b2f9h79db47faf2395d7a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806181549170609de51f0f2@msapiro>

Jeff Donsbach wrote:
>
>   I recently started having delivery problems with list messages to
>Hotmail subscribers. The problem seems to have started on or around
>June 10. I checked the syslog file and was seeing occasional (452 too
>many recipients for delivery) errors. I changed SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to 5
>and SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION to 5 as well. That seems to have
>cleared up the '452' errors. All messages handed off to Hotmail users
>in the last 24 hours or so have (250  <messageid at domain.tld> Queued
>mail for delivery)  successful return codes (as far as I see). Yet,
>none of the list subscribers are receiving messages. If I send a test
>message to some of the subscribers directly (not via Mailman), they
>get it.
>
>Beyond telling people to dump Hotmail, does anyone have any "best
>practices" they can share for getting Mailman messages delivered to
>Hotmail subscribers successfully? I have already read FAQ 3.42 on the
>new FAQ wiki (thanks, Barry and Co). And, I have already read -
>http://postmaster.live.com/Guidelines.aspx , and my co-admin and I are
>looking into implementing SenderId/SPF keys for the domain DNS
>records.


Welcome to the world of pain and frustration that is dealing with
Microsoft and Windows live mail spam filtering - yes, they do accept
your mail and then silently discard it.

I had the same problem. I hammered and hammered with the customer
support forms. I could never answer their follow-ups because they
wouldn't accept mail from my postmaster address which I used thinking
it would give me credibility. My advice here is to sign up for and use
a hotmail address in your communications.

Anyway, they finally put me on a 2 month 'mitigation' during which my
mail was accepted and their spam filters were supposed to retrain, but
the day the mitigation ended, the started flaging >10% of my list mail
as spam (I had also added SPF records prior to the mitigation).

My mail still mostly falls in the 'yellow' (10% to 90% spam) range on
'SNDS' (their Smart Network Data Services reporting service), but it
is delivered to either inboxes or spam folders, and all mail is
delivered to the inbox of those who whitelist my domain.

This in spite of the fact that my complaint rate is essentially zero.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeff.donsbach at gmail.com  Thu Jun 19 01:06:26 2008
From: jeff.donsbach at gmail.com (Jeff Donsbach)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:06:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list messages lost to Hotmail subscribers lost
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806181549170609de51f0f2@msapiro>
References: <22976ef80806181517y7de7b2f9h79db47faf2395d7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1870200806181549170609de51f0f2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <22976ef80806181606x223e5ea6p2b2336f0ba244de8@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
> Welcome to the world of pain and frustration that is dealing with
> Microsoft and Windows live mail spam filtering - yes, they do accept
> your mail and then silently discard it.
>
> I had the same problem. I hammered and hammered with the customer
> support forms. I could never answer their follow-ups because they
> wouldn't accept mail from my postmaster address which I used thinking
> it would give me credibility. My advice here is to sign up for and use
> a hotmail address in your communications.

Thanks Mark. I was afraid I was going to get an answer like that. :-(

What is the email address to start that process (if you remember)?

> Anyway, they finally put me on a 2 month 'mitigation' during which my
> mail was accepted and their spam filters were supposed to retrain, but
> the day the mitigation ended, the started flaging >10% of my list mail
> as spam (I had also added SPF records prior to the mitigation).
>

Hmm. That isn't promising.

> My mail still mostly falls in the 'yellow' (10% to 90% spam) range on
> 'SNDS' (their Smart Network Data Services reporting service), but it
> is delivered to either inboxes or spam folders, and all mail is
> delivered to the inbox of those who whitelist my domain.
>
> This in spite of the fact that my complaint rate is essentially zero.

Making it to my subscribers Spam folder would be an improvement. Right
now as far as I can tell, they are just dropping it.
Well, I'll guess I'll have to bite the bullet and sign up for a
hotmail.... er, um.... "Windows Live" mail account. I've resisted for
years.

Thanks
-Jeff D

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 19 01:33:41 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:33:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list messages lost to Hotmail subscribers lost
In-Reply-To: <22976ef80806181606x223e5ea6p2b2336f0ba244de8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061816334109539aa8bea2@msapiro>

Jeff Donsbach wrote:

>On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>> Welcome to the world of pain and frustration that is dealing with
>> Microsoft and Windows live mail spam filtering - yes, they do accept
>> your mail and then silently discard it.
>>
>> I had the same problem. I hammered and hammered with the customer
>> support forms. I could never answer their follow-ups because they
>> wouldn't accept mail from my postmaster address which I used thinking
>> it would give me credibility. My advice here is to sign up for and use
>> a hotmail address in your communications.
>
>Thanks Mark. I was afraid I was going to get an answer like that. :-(
>
>What is the email address to start that process (if you remember)?


I started with the form at
<https://support.msn.com/eform.aspx?productKey=edfsmsbl&ct=eformts>.
It isn't easy to find. It's a pain to fill out, but they do respond to
it. Most of the responses are canned paragraphs they put together. I'm
still not fully convinced they come from humans, but if you are
patient and persistent, you will eventually get the attention of
someone who can help. Just keep stressing that your mail is going to
confirmed, opt-in subscribers who want it.


>> Anyway, they finally put me on a 2 month 'mitigation' during which my
>> mail was accepted and their spam filters were supposed to retrain, but
>> the day the mitigation ended, the started flaging >10% of my list mail
>> as spam (I had also added SPF records prior to the mitigation).
>>
>
>Hmm. That isn't promising.
>
>> My mail still mostly falls in the 'yellow' (10% to 90% spam) range on
>> 'SNDS' (their Smart Network Data Services reporting service), but it
>> is delivered to either inboxes or spam folders, and all mail is
>> delivered to the inbox of those who whitelist my domain.
>>
>> This in spite of the fact that my complaint rate is essentially zero.
>
>Making it to my subscribers Spam folder would be an improvement. Right
>now as far as I can tell, they are just dropping it.
>Well, I'll guess I'll have to bite the bullet and sign up for a
>hotmail.... er, um.... "Windows Live" mail account. I've resisted for
>years.


If it gets to their spam folder, they can whitelist your domain and it
will get to their inbox. The problem that I had initially and that you
are apparently having now is that at some point, they accept your mail
and then silently discard it. That hasn't happened to me again since
the mitigation period, but I'm never relaxed about it.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 19 02:14:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:14:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News headers in mails gated from news
In-Reply-To: <cba415ca0806180720j38d4f14ci78525480a2a11d00@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cba415ca0806180720j38d4f14ci78525480a2a11d00@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4859A4C9.9060304@msapiro.net>

David Hl??ik wrote:
> 
> I am using mailman script called from cron /usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
> to synchronize mails between our company private only news server  (INN) and
> our company mailing list.
> 
> When mail is gated from news to mailing list - news: header is not removed,
> mailing list headers are added.
> 
> Unfortunately this scenario causes problem with users using great most
> perfect in the world client Microsoft Outlook 2007, or Windows Mail :).


You can remove this header (or others) by adding the line

                 del msg['news']

(the case of the header name is not important) to cron/gate_news so it 
becomes

                 if found_to:
                     del msg['X-Originally-To']
                     msg['X-Originally-To'] = msg['To']
                     del msg['To']
                 msg['To'] = mlist.GetListEmail()
                 del msg['news']
                 # Post the message to the locked list


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jun 19 06:16:23 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 06:16:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list messages lost to Hotmail subscribers lost
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008061816334109539aa8bea2@msapiro>
References: <PC18702008061816334109539aa8bea2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <2340-26864@sneakemail.com>

On 19 Jun 2008, at 01:33, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> [...]
> The problem that I had initially and that you are apparently having  
> now is that at some point, they accept your mail and then silently  
> discard it. That hasn't happened to me again since the mitigation  
> period, but I'm never relaxed about it.

It happens to me as well. I.e. they silently accept mail and then just  
drop it.

I am at the point where I just don?t accept any email address managed  
by Hotmail.



From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Jun 19 05:54:04 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:54:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web UI request
In-Reply-To: <200806182014.m5IKE0fo015251@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>
	<200806182014.m5IKE0fo015251@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <p06240801c47f889450cd@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/18/08, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>  I second this.  Subscribers losing their password and asking me to make
>  changes for them is one of my biggest timesinks, outside of moderation.

I don't molly-coddle users.  If they can't figure out for themselves 
how to get their password sent to them, that's their problem.

But then I'm in a position where it's probably a lot easier for me to 
do that for me and my user base as compared to you and your user 
base.  ;-)

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Jun 19 06:01:06 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:01:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list messages lost to Hotmail subscribers lost
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806181549170609de51f0f2@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200806181549170609de51f0f2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240802c47f894e7c78@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/18/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  Welcome to the world of pain and frustration that is dealing with
>  Microsoft and Windows live mail spam filtering - yes, they do accept
>  your mail and then silently discard it.

For small non-profit organizations, you can pay a one-time fee to 
Habeas and/or Return Path and take part in their "safelist" or 
"bonded sender" programs, and that should significantly help your 
penetration into various sites, not just hotmail.  For example, using 
Habeas improves your spam score by a full 8.0 points with 
SpamAssassin using an out-of-the-box configuration, although 
ReturnPath only improves your spam score by 4.0 points.  Still, 4.0 
points may be enough to take you out of the yellow and into the 
green, and 8.0 points would almost certainly do that.

I think we send too much e-mail for python.org to do this sort of 
thing as a small non-profit (there are daily/monthly/yearly volume 
limits), but we should probably talk to the PSF about an annual 
subscription to their lowest tier of service on these programs, and I 
have contacts at both Habeas and ReturnPath that we can talk to.


We're looking at doing this for my "real" employer, and for one of 
the largest public universities in the world, the safelist price I 
was quoted was less than $10,000.  And we do a *lot* of volume at 
work.  Smaller sites get charged proportionately less.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Jun 19 05:52:25 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:52:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing Files config.db/config.db.last
In-Reply-To: <ADC733B130BF1D4A82795B6B3A2654E2DA88C3@exchange.paymentallianceintl.com>
References: <ADC733B130BF1D4A82795B6B3A2654E2DA88C3@exchange.paymentallianceintl.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c47f87f12a9d@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/18/08, Michael Jung wrote:

>  Upon finding tracebacks in the mailman/logs/error file I decided to run
>  check_db which reports two missing files for each list. I have no clue
>  how these got deleted.
>
>  I've started going back through old backup tapes but apparently these
>  have been missing for some extended period of time.  Is there an easy
>  way to reconstruct these without nuking my list (which has been running
>  for some 10 years now) - I don't want to loose history.

You don't need any config.db files.  Those are holdovers from much 
older versions of Mailman, and when you first upgraded to a more 
modern version of Mailman they would have been converted over to 
config.pck "pickle" files.

Those error messages are red herrings.  Don't be fooled.  You're only 
seeing those error messages at all because you did a "check_db -v" 
instead of the normal "check_db".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jun 19 06:21:08 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 06:21:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008061815242505159aa8bcdc@msapiro>
References: <PC18702008061815242505159aa8bcdc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <21192-77352@sneakemail.com>

On 19 Jun 2008, at 00:24, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> So should I consider it a bug that setting list encoding to utf-8  
>> will
>> (in my experience) _always_ produce (base 64 encoded) utf-8 letters,
>> when both header/footer and letter itself sent to list is ASCII?
>
> You may consider it a bug if you wish. It is intentional (but still
> perhaps wrong) that the message is coerced to the character set of the
> list's preferred language when msg_header and/or msg_footer are added.

I meant in the sense that I should report it / submit a patch, given  
that what I saw was contrary to what you said the behavior should be.  
Though given your correction, I assume I should not submit a patch for  
this, if it actually is how it is supposed to work.

> The base64 encoding for a utf-8 message is a separate issue and is  
> done
> by the Python email library.
>
>> Here is what I did to test: Set list encoding to utf-8 (in  
>> mm_cfg.py).
>> Created a new list (called Test) and subscribed to it. Even the
>> welcome letter contained:
>>
>>    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>    Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>>    Subject: =?utf-8?q?Welcome_to_the_=22Test=22_mailing_list?=
>
>
> This is a 'virgin' message from Mailman which will always be in the
> charset of the list's or user's preferred language, so no surprise
> here.

But encoding an ASCII subject? Though maybe this is also the Python  
MIME library? I will do some tests with the lib.


From bob001 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 19 06:32:35 2008
From: bob001 at gmail.com (Bob001)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:32:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change following mail header shown by
 hotmail?
Message-ID: <17997126.post@talk.nabble.com>


Dear Experts,
Can this header be changed? If so, how to do it? 
----
 From:   test-bounces at domain.name on behalf of USER_NAME
(user_name at domain.name)
Sent:
Wed 6/18/08 8:06 PM
To:
test at domain.name
-----

Basically, "on behalf of" is really confusing and also spam looking..

Also, if there are many ways to change it, kindly list all..i want to try in
which signatures aren't broken.

Thanks a bunch.
- Bob.

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-to-change-following-mail-header-shown-by-hotmail--tp17997126p17997126.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jun 19 06:58:00 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 06:58:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com> <16288-61549@sneakemail.com>
	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <13061-77666@sneakemail.com>

On 18 Jun 2008, at 20:59, adsarebad-at-......... wrote:

>> Have you seen <http://www.gurulabs.com/downloads/postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py 
>> >?
>> [...]
> I think I may have ran into that file in my travels, can`t remember  
> for sure through because I ran into so many.  Is that the one where  
> I need to have mylist at list.domain.com?  I was hoping to be able to  
> use mylist at domain.com.

At least the advantage of this solution is that you set the transport  
for an entire domain to be this script, and then don?t need to have  
the Mailman email addresses explicitly stated in your Postfix config.

If you want to have both regular and Mailman addresses for the same  
domain, then I am afraid you will have to explicitly have the Mailman  
addresses in your Postfix config. Just, they should go in the  
appropriate section (addresses for virtual domains instead of aliases).

I am unsure what you actually wanted help with in your original  
letter, i.e. was it a convenient way to do ?newlist? after you setup  
the multiple Mailman installs? Was it routing the different addresses  
to the proper installs? etc.


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jun 19 07:00:04 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:00:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive threading (pipermail)
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806181346060187ad3d1c01@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200806181346060187ad3d1c01@msapiro>
Message-ID: <21951-00469@sneakemail.com>

On 18 Jun 2008, at 22:46, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> [...]
> I have never before seen a report like this. Since it occurs for a new
> list, there is apparently something wrong with the Mailman
> installation itself. If it were a problem with the Ubuntu package, I
> think it would have been seen elsewhere, so I think it's likely
> specific to your installation, but I have no idea what might cause it.

I installed same version of Mailman locally (OS X) and generated the  
archive there, from the same mbox, and here it shows up fine.

So definitely there is something on the server causing the problem. I  
tried reverting mm_cfg.py to the default version, but that did not fix  
anything.

Looks like I?ll have to go through the pipermail source to solve this?


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jun 19 07:11:11 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:11:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive threading (pipermail)
In-Reply-To: <21951-00469@sneakemail.com>
References: <PC1870200806181346060187ad3d1c01@msapiro>
	<21951-00469@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <13273-58579@sneakemail.com>

On 19 Jun 2008, at 07:00, Allan Odgaard wrote:

> On 18 Jun 2008, at 22:46, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> I have never before seen a report like this. Since it occurs for a  
>> new
>> list, there is apparently something wrong with the Mailman
>> installation itself. If it were a problem with the Ubuntu package, I
>> think it would have been seen elsewhere, so I think it's likely
>> specific to your installation, but I have no idea what might cause  
>> it.
>
> I installed same version of Mailman locally (OS X) and generated the  
> archive there, from the same mbox, and here it shows up fine.
> [...]


Doing a diff on the generated archives, the only problem with the bad  
one is that it has the <UL> and </UL>?s placed wrong.

It tends to be very eager with <UL> so everything gets down to third  
level?


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Jun 19 07:52:23 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 00:52:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change following mail header shown by
 hotmail?
In-Reply-To: <17997126.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <17997126.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <p06240804c47fa470d86e@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/18/08, Bob001 wrote:

>  Basically, "on behalf of" is really confusing and also spam looking..

Search the Mailman FAQ for "microsoft".  The first hit will be 
<http://wiki.list.org/x/RoA9>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Jun 19 07:54:18 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 00:54:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive threading (pipermail)
In-Reply-To: <13273-58579@sneakemail.com>
References: <PC1870200806181346060187ad3d1c01@msapiro>
	<21951-00469@sneakemail.com> <13273-58579@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240805c47fa4b7e8f9@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/19/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:

>  Doing a diff on the generated archives, the only problem with the bad one
>  is that it has the <UL> and </UL>'s placed wrong.
>
>  It tends to be very eager with <UL> so everything gets down to third level?

That could be an issue with the Python libraries. 
Depending on which version of Python and which 
version of which libraries you have, they might 
munge things like that.

Of course, I've never heard of this particular 
type of munging before, but certainly I've heard 
of weird stuff happening when you have the wrong 
version of libraries installed.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From saschahb at gmx.net  Thu Jun 19 08:21:47 2008
From: saschahb at gmx.net (Sascha Schmidt)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 08:21:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authorization required with FireFox 3
Message-ID: <4859FAFB.7080203@gmx.net>

Hi,

yesterday, 2 days after the release of FireFox 3 I'm trying to login to 
my mailman 2.1.10 installation. After entering the correct password the 
errormessage "Authorization failed" is shown. Deleting the Browser 
Cache/Cookies didn't fix the problem.

There's no problem logging in with Firefox 2 and IE.
Someone can reproduce this behaviour?

Greets,
Sascha

From adsarebad at gmail.com  Thu Jun 19 08:38:38 2008
From: adsarebad at gmail.com (adsarebad at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:38:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <13061-77666@sneakemail.com>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>
	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>
	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>

Well I finished my setup.  I have a Multi-Mailman install set up and 
working.  I have also wrote up a little writeup on how I did it.  If 
someone who knows mailman would look at it and tell me if I have done 
something wrong that would be nice.  Its at 
http://skagitattic.com/mailman.html

Thanks!


Also it seems clicking reply on a msg here does a off list reply. So all 
my previous reply`s were done off list.


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I think what you actually need is something like
>
> fun at domain.com              fun_domain
>
> in virtual_mailman and
>
> fun_domain:        "|/usr/local/mailman/domain/mail/mailman post fun"
>
> in aliases.
>
> You would need to modify Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py to produce this, or set
> MTA = 'Manual' in mm_cfg.py and do your aliases manually.
>
>   
Thanks for the idea of editing Postfix.py! However I could not seem to 
make it work without.

fun at domain.com              fun_domain at localhost

in virtual_mailman




Allan Odgaard wrote:
> On 18 Jun 2008, at 20:59, adsarebad-at-......... wrote:
>
>>> Have you seen 
>>> <http://www.gurulabs.com/downloads/postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py>?
>>> [...]
>> I think I may have ran into that file in my travels, can`t remember 
>> for sure through because I ran into so many.  Is that the one where I 
>> need to have mylist at list.domain.com?  I was hoping to be able to use 
>> mylist at domain.com.
>
> At least the advantage of this solution is that you set the transport 
> for an entire domain to be this script, and then don?t need to have 
> the Mailman email addresses explicitly stated in your Postfix config.
>
> If you want to have both regular and Mailman addresses for the same 
> domain, then I am afraid you will have to explicitly have the Mailman 
> addresses in your Postfix config. Just, they should go in the 
> appropriate section (addresses for virtual domains instead of aliases).
Ya, I do want mailman going out of the same domain as "normal" email.
>
> I am unsure what you actually wanted help with in your original 
> letter, i.e. was it a convenient way to do ?newlist? after you setup 
> the multiple Mailman installs? Was it routing the different addresses 
> to the proper installs? etc.
>
I was not able to get my mail to mailman without doing my own aliases.

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> adsarebad at gmail.com wrote:
>   
>>>   
>>>       
>> Hmm..  It would be easy to write a little script to edit the tables 
>> mailman makes to be right but I don`t know how I would get mailman to 
>> call my script instead of (is it postmap?)...?  I was looking through 
>> the mailman source for a call to postmap but could not find one, I guess 
>> I would have to search a little deeper.  Or is it something else?  I 
>> will have a look at Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py and see whats there.  Thanks!
>>     
>
>
> Mailman (actually, Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py) calls the commands (with
> defaults)
>
> POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
> POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
>
> after updating aliases and virtual-mailman. You can override thes in
> mm_cfg.py to, e.g., invoke a script which does some edits and then
> calls the command. This would avoid maintaining patches to
> Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py.
>
>   
That is a good idea however I was done with my editing of Postfix.py by 
then.   Now that its working I don`t want to spend the time to make a 
script to do what I want.

From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jun 19 09:04:30 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:04:30 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply to list instead of poster (was: Muti-Mailman
	install)
In-Reply-To: <4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>
	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>
	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com> <4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23522-80279@sneakemail.com>

On 19 Jun 2008, at 08:38, adsarebad-at-......... wrote:

> [...]
> Also it seems clicking reply on a msg here does a off list reply. So  
> all my previous reply`s were done off list.

It is the default for new Mailman installs and the admin UI even has:

     Where are replies to list messages directed?
     Poster is strongly recommended for most mailing lists

I never understood why they have this recommendation or even default  
setting and it has always bothered me when lists I subscribe to does  
not change away from the default (fortunately majority of lists _do_  
change it).

The problem is actually twofold:

  1. I routinely forget to reply to the list, and
  2. I get private replies which I _think_ are meant for the list, but  
I feel bad about following up to the list incase the poster really  
wanted it to be private (plus list members lose half the conversation  
when only the list is cc?ed on every second letter).

So what exactly is the reason for this recommendation (and default)?

And where do we lobby for a change? :)



From z.szalbot at lc-words.com  Thu Jun 19 11:10:17 2008
From: z.szalbot at lc-words.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:10:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] errors after hd crash
Message-ID: <485A2279.3020201@lc-words.com>

Hello,

We have had a HD crash and I had to bring the data back from a backup. I 
fixed permissions, etc and it should work well now but on the website I get
Bug in Mailman version 2.1.10

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, 
but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.

and in error logs I can see this:

Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 284, in <module>
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):      main()
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 264, in main
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):      process_lists(lock)
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 199, in process_lists
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):      mlist = 
MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):      self.Load()
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 668, in Load
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):      self.CheckVersion(dict)
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 707, in CheckVersion
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):      if self.data_version >= 
mm_cfg.DATA_FILE_VERSION:
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):      raise AttributeError, name
Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949): AttributeError :  data_version

Many thanks for helping me to determine the cause of this!

Regards,

Zbigniew Szalbot

From James.Kemp at ips.gsi.gov.uk  Thu Jun 19 14:20:30 2008
From: James.Kemp at ips.gsi.gov.uk (Kemp James)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:20:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authorization required with FireFox 3
In-Reply-To: <4859FAFB.7080203@gmx.net>
References: <4859FAFB.7080203@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <ECC41EE8F8763E48BAE34DC9F6C4D4FD85EAFC@belexh001.ukps.ho>

From: mailman-users-bounces+james.kemp=ips.gsi.gov.uk at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+james.kemp=ips.gsi.gov.uk at python.org] On
Behalf Of Sascha Schmidt  Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 7:22 AM
> 
> yesterday, 2 days after the release of FireFox 3 I'm trying 
> to login to my mailman 2.1.10 installation. After entering 
> the correct password the errormessage "Authorization failed" 
> is shown. Deleting the Browser Cache/Cookies didn't fix the problem.
> 
> There's no problem logging in with Firefox 2 and IE.
> Someone can reproduce this behaviour?

At home I've been using the beta of Firefox 3 on an ubuntu machine with
no problems authenticating. I've also been using IE here and Firefox 2
on a windows vista laptop, also with no trouble. 

Are you absolutely sure you got the right password in, no caps lock on,
or accidentally hitting the wrong key? 

-- 
James Kemp

All views expressed in this e-mail are my personal views and not those
of my employer. 

**********************************************************************
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are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses.

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From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Thu Jun 19 14:56:22 2008
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:56:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authorization required with FireFox 3
In-Reply-To: <4859FAFB.7080203@gmx.net>
References: <4859FAFB.7080203@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20080619125622.GF15226@mail.incertum.net>

* Sascha Schmidt <saschahb at gmx.net> wrote:
> yesterday, 2 days after the release of FireFox 3 I'm trying to login to
> my mailman 2.1.10 installation. After entering the correct password the
> errormessage "Authorization failed" is shown. Deleting the Browser
> Cache/Cookies didn't fix the problem.
> 
> There's no problem logging in with Firefox 2 and IE.
> Someone can reproduce this behaviour?

Login with Firefox 3 (on OSX) works perfectly well. I suggest
capturing the actual HTTP requests and responses exchanged during
login to ease debugging this. Probably it's just some cookie acception
problem.


Ciao
Stefan
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9
FdI #297: extensiv getestet - Bislang verschwiegener Bestandteil der letzten
Lieferung (Lutz Donnerhacke)

From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Thu Jun 19 16:01:29 2008
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:01:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipients missing on list post
Message-ID: <20080619140129.GG15226@mail.incertum.net>

Hello world,

if the host running my Mailman installation is experiencing a high
load (i.e., high CPU usage, many CPU cycles waiting for I/O), posts to
some lists are sometimes sent out with about 1 in 300 subscribers
missing.

First of all, I verified that the recipients who didn't receive posts
didn't have mail delivery suspended - they didn't. Then I looked into
Mailman logs, which yield the following entries:

#v+
/var/log/mailman/post:
Jun 19 11:13:07 2008 (3760) post to listname from sender at xample.org size=42101, message-id=<485a5ae7.5m0y6BRrtA8XcYpq%sender at example.org>, success
#v-

#v+
/var/log/mailman/smtp:
Jun 19 11:13:09 2008 (3760) <485a5ae7.5m0y6BRrtA8XcYpq%sender at example.org> smtp to listname for 226 recips, completed in 1.179 seconds
#v-

Notice the 226 recipients and the long time it takes to submit the
messages (1.179 seconds) - as I said, the system is somewhat
"congested" at that time.

Let's have a look at the corresponding Postfix log entries:

#v+
Jun 19 11:13:07 mout03 postfix/smtpd[7065]: connect from localhost[127.0.0.1]
Jun 19 11:13:07 mout03 postfix/smtpd[7065]: B251578003: client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
Jun 19 11:13:07 mout03 postfix/cleanup[7062]: B251578003: message-id=<485a5ae7.5m0y6BRrtA8XcYpq%sender at example.org>
Jun 19 11:13:07 mout03 postfix/qmgr[3962]: B251578003: from=<listname-bounces at listserver.example.org>, size=42602, nrcpt=22 (queue active)
Jun 19 11:13:07 mout03 postfix/smtpd[7065]: B630678004: client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
Jun 19 11:13:07 mout03 postfix/cleanup[7062]: B630678004: message-id=<485a5ae7.5m0y6BRrtA8XcYpq%sender at example.org>
Jun 19 11:13:07 mout03 postfix/qmgr[3962]: B630678004: from=<listname-bounces at listserver.example.org>, size=42627, nrcpt=26 (queue active)
Jun 19 11:13:07 mout03 postfix/smtpd[7065]: C041B78005: client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
Jun 19 11:13:07 mout03 postfix/cleanup[7062]: C041B78005: message-id=<485a5ae7.5m0y6BRrtA8XcYpq%sender at example.org>
Jun 19 11:13:08 mout03 postfix/qmgr[3962]: C041B78005: from=<listname-bounces at listserver.example.org>, size=42419, nrcpt=19 (queue active)
Jun 19 11:13:08 mout03 postfix/smtpd[7065]: 2DD0D78003: client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
Jun 19 11:13:08 mout03 postfix/cleanup[7062]: 2DD0D78003: message-id=<485a5ae7.5m0y6BRrtA8XcYpq%sender at example.org>
Jun 19 11:13:08 mout03 postfix/qmgr[3962]: 2DD0D78003: from=<listname-bounces at listserver.example.org>, size=42153, nrcpt=158 (queue active)
Jun 19 11:13:09 mout03 postfix/smtpd[7065]: disconnect from localhost[127.0.0.1]
#v-

Now, 22+26+19+158 equals 225 and not 226 - no rejected mails, no
NOQUEUE entries. Either Postfix or Mailman is lying. How can I find
out which one it is, aside from running ngrep/tcpdump?

Which additional configuration data do I have to provide to aid in
remote debugging this?


Ciao
Stefan
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9
FdI #68: WWW - World Wide Waiting

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 19 15:53:44 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 06:53:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply to list instead of poster (was:
	Muti-Mailmaninstall)
In-Reply-To: <23522-80279@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020080619065344035989d1e053@msapiro>

Allan Odgaard wrote:

>On 19 Jun 2008, at 08:38, adsarebad-at-......... wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> Also it seems clicking reply on a msg here does a off list reply. So  
>> all my previous reply`s were done off list.
>
>It is the default for new Mailman installs and the admin UI even has:
>
>     Where are replies to list messages directed?
>     Poster is strongly recommended for most mailing lists
>
>I never understood why they have this recommendation or even default  
>setting and it has always bothered me when lists I subscribe to does  
>not change away from the default (fortunately majority of lists _do_  
>change it).


The reasoning, including links to a couple of articles pro and con on
the subject, is explained on the page linked as "(Details for
reply_goes_to_list)". You have said in another thread that these links
contribute to excessive verbosity of the labels, but they often link
to useful supplemental information.
	

[...]
>So what exactly is the reason for this recommendation (and default)?


The principles of least harm and least surprise.


>And where do we lobby for a change? :)


You can continue this thread, or you can just search the archives of
this (and maybe the mailman-developers) list and see if you have
something new to add.

Note that the Mailman developers have strong opinions about this, and
it would take a new and compelling argument to change it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 19 16:03:29 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:03:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <21192-77352@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020080619070329082889d1e219@msapiro>

Allan Odgaard wrote:

>On 19 Jun 2008, at 00:24, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> You may consider it a bug if you wish. It is intentional (but still
>> perhaps wrong) that the message is coerced to the character set of the
>> list's preferred language when msg_header and/or msg_footer are added.
>
>I meant in the sense that I should report it / submit a patch, given  
>that what I saw was contrary to what you said the behavior should be.  
>Though given your correction, I assume I should not submit a patch for  
>this, if it actually is how it is supposed to work.


I'm open to the idea of changing it, but not without input from people
with experience with asian language lists. The original code comes
from someone with experience with Japanese language lists, and I think
there is likely good reason for doing it the way it's done.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 19 16:30:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:30:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] errors after hd crash
In-Reply-To: <485A2279.3020201@lc-words.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806190730180390095ee398@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>We have had a HD crash and I had to bring the data back from a backup. I 
>fixed permissions, etc and it should work well now but on the website I get
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.10
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, 
>but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>
>and in error logs I can see this:
>
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):   File 
>"/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 284, in <module>
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):      main()
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):   File 
>"/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 264, in main
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):      process_lists(lock)
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):   File 
>"/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 199, in process_lists
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):      mlist = 
>MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):   File 
>"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):      self.Load()
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):   File 
>"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 668, in Load
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):      self.CheckVersion(dict)
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):   File 
>"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 707, in CheckVersion
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):      if self.data_version >= 
>mm_cfg.DATA_FILE_VERSION:
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):   File 
>"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949):      raise AttributeError, name
>Jun 19 11:05:01 2008 gate_news(30949): AttributeError :  data_version
>


This specific traceback is from cron/gate_news (there's probably one of
these every 5 minutes), not from the web CGI, but the error is
probably the same.

The issue above is a corrupt config.pck file for some list. To find
which list, cd to Mailman's bin/ directory and do

echo > noop.py "def noop(mlist): return"
./withlist -a -r noop

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jun 19 16:56:41 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:56:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply to list instead of poster (was:
	Muti-Mailmaninstall)
In-Reply-To: <PC187020080619065344035989d1e053@msapiro>
References: <PC187020080619065344035989d1e053@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9846-37856@sneakemail.com>

On 19 Jun 2008, at 15:53, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> [...] You have said in another thread that these links contribute to  
> excessive verbosity of the labels, but they often link to useful  
> supplemental information.

I don?t dispute that. I am sure there are lots of useful info there,  
but it drowns in the excessive verbosity. Take the reply-to UI in  
question:

                             Reply-To: header munging

        Should any existing Reply-To: header
            found in the original message be
          stripped? If so, this will be done  (o) No  ( ) Yes
            regardless of whether an explict
     Reply-To: header is added by Mailman or
            not. (Edit first_strip_reply_to)

          Where are replies to list messages
    directed? Poster is strongly recommended  (o) Poster  ( ) This list
        for most mailing lists. (Details for  ( ) Explicit address
                         reply_goes_to_list)

     Explicit Reply-To: header. (Details for   
[                         ]
                           reply_to_address)

That?s almost 100 words and the link that explains why the Poster  
option is recommended bears the mundane title of ?(Details for  
reply_goes_to_list)? and is part of a label which is really 3 sentences.

Here is how I would change all of the above:

      List replies go to: (o) Poster (recommended, more info)
                          ( ) The list
                               [x] Strip existing Reply-To header
                          ( ) Other: [                           ]

The grouping should make it clear how the settings relate to each  
other, so no need for long explanations about the explicit Reply-To  
address etc.?

Less text means better chance the user will read/grasp it. I only  
added one ?more info? link and put it right next to the ?recommended?  
text, so it should be clear from context that it will elaborate on why  
this is the recommended setting.



? The third setting is dependent on list replies going to the list and  
while it indicates that the first setting can be used even for replies  
sent to poster, that does IMHO not make much sense.



From cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu  Thu Jun 19 17:09:57 2008
From: cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu (cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:09:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Just  Stop Working
Message-ID: <39904.72.207.210.88.1213888197.squirrel@virga.srcc.lsu.edu>

Im using a qmailtoaster as described here:
http://wiki.qmailtoaster.com/index.php/CentOS_5_QmailToaster_Install

My developers have insisted on using mailman instead of EZMLM.
Its all the same to me.  I have installed mailman into
/home/mailman/mydomain/

Everything was working fine.  I seriously have no idea why mailman stopped
working.  It was like one day, I got a call, and it was no longer working.
 when i stop/start/restart with mailmanctl, things seem fine, no errors. 
The web interface appears to work fine.  I have a stage server that I test
all updates and new ideas on just to be sure I dont brick my production
mailserver, and mailman works fine on that box.

Any suggestions on how to debug this are welcome.

Chris Penn...


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 19 17:43:43 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 08:43:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply to list instead of poster
	(was:Muti-Mailmaninstall)
In-Reply-To: <9846-37856@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020080619084343042173ca9610@msapiro>

Allan Odgaard wrote:
>
>Here is how I would change all of the above:
>
>      List replies go to: (o) Poster (recommended, more info)
>                          ( ) The list
>                               [x] Strip existing Reply-To header
>                          ( ) Other: [                           ]
>
>The grouping should make it clear how the settings relate to each  
>other, so no need for long explanations about the explicit Reply-To  
>address etc.
>
>Less text means better chance the user will read/grasp it. I only  
>added one "more info" link and put it right next to the ?recommended?  
>text, so it should be clear from context that it will elaborate on why  
>this is the recommended setting.


I really don't want to get into a discussion of the web UI here. I am
not directly involved in the changes that are going on, and I think
the wiki <http://wiki.list.org/x/RoBE> and the mailman-developers list
are more appropriate for this discussion.

However, I certainly agree that your suggested improvement above is
more readable and user friendly except that it doesn't correctly
capture the interrelated settings.

The first_strip_reply_to setting is independent and while it doesn't
make sense for 'poster', it certainly does for 'other'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jun 19 18:13:46 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:13:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web UI request
In-Reply-To: <5CB0EE34-78B7-4001-A81D-275B8485854F@zone12.com>
References: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>
	<5F07D492-396B-4992-A162-555A953C741B@zone12.com>
	<12403-89308@sneakemail.com>
	<5CB0EE34-78B7-4001-A81D-275B8485854F@zone12.com>
Message-ID: <3522-13705@sneakemail.com>

On 18 Jun 2008, at 20:32, Terri Oda wrote:

> [...]
> I've opened up a new page on the wiki to get more of a process going:
>
> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Web+Interface

This is great, but how should we use it? :)

I think the easiest is simply to go through all settings, decide what  
is needed/not needed.

Then group the relevant stuff, and then do categorization.

This should probably just be done by 1-3 people and then submitted as  
a proposal.

But how easy is it to actually improve the web UI? It was said in  
another letter that it is generated from various source fragments, so  
is there the necessary abstraction in Mailman to allow the web UI to  
be improved?

If it is feasible to redo the UI for 2.x then I?ll gladly submit some  
more complete suggestions.

>> [...]
>>  4. Labels are too verbose, contributing with noise to the overall  
>> view, and the ?Details for ?the_mailman_option_name?? under  
>> each label does not help in this regard.
>
> I've got mixed feelings about this.  The labels do contribute to  
> noise, but they also provide the ability for me to tell people  
> "change the setting with name $foo" *or* describe the description if  
> I'm not near a computer to check the stuff myself.  The longer  
> labels also make it easier for people looking at the interface the  
> first time to figure out what things do at a glance instead of  
> having to click each details button to find the one they want.

My main problem with the verbose (right-aligned) labels is that it  
makes skimming very difficult.

A few days ago I created a list where I wanted to allow posts from non- 
members and I spent at least 10 minutes skimming page after page for  
this setting.

Eventually I found it under ?Privacy Options? ? [Sender  
Filters]? with this label:

     Action to take for postings from non-members
          for which no explicit action is defined
           (Details for generic_nonmember_action)

The first six words of that label has no value with respect to telling  
what it is. For optimal skimming, the first few words should have  
words that are unique to the option. I also am not sure about the  
importance of stressing that this is for the case where there is no  
explicit action defined (sort of goes without saying).

So here I would propose something like:

    Non-members have their posts: ( ) Accepted
                                  (o) Held (for the list admin to  
approve)
                                  ( ) Rejected (they receive a bounce)
                                  ( ) Discarded (no bounce is sent back)

I also added info about each choice hopefully making the previous  
?more info? link unnecessary.

Another example of the long verbose labels are (in same category):

     List of non-member addresses whose postings should
                be automatically accepted. (Details for
                               accept_these_nonmembers)

In my mind a simple label of ?white-listed non-members? would  
suffice. And back to the point about skimming, there are actually four  
settings which all start with ?List of non-member addresses whose?,  
meaning that when skimming, this is 20 words I have to read which say  
nothing about the actual option. For the above, it is actually the  
last word (of first sentence) which makes all the difference compared  
e.g. to this setting on same page:

     List of non-member addresses whose postings should
                be automatically rejected. (Details for
                              discard_these_nonmembers)

So we have two paragraphs of 15 words each which in the first sentence  
only differ in the last word.

So while I agree with you in theory, I don?t think this verbosity  
holds the value you assign it ;)


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Jun 19 18:52:36 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:52:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authorization required with FireFox 3
In-Reply-To: <4859FAFB.7080203@gmx.net>
References: <4859FAFB.7080203@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <485A8ED4.4060900@shub-internet.org>

Sascha Schmidt wrote:

> yesterday, 2 days after the release of FireFox 3 I'm trying to login to 
> my mailman 2.1.10 installation. After entering the correct password the 
> errormessage "Authorization failed" is shown. Deleting the Browser 
> Cache/Cookies didn't fix the problem.
> 
> There's no problem logging in with Firefox 2 and IE.
> Someone can reproduce this behaviour?

I've already used Firefox 3 to log into two separate Mailman mailing list 
services that I administer, with no problems.

Tell us more about how you've got Firefox configured, and we might be in a 
better position to help.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at python.org  Thu Jun 19 18:57:34 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:57:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com>
	<4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <485A8FFE.8000608@python.org>

adsarebad at gmail.com wrote:

> Also it seems clicking reply on a msg here does a off list reply. So all 
> my previous reply`s were done off list.

Correct.  The Mailman developers feel that forcing all replies to go back to 
the list causes much more harm than good, see FAQ 3.48 at 
<http://wiki.list.org/x/44A9>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From terri at zone12.com  Thu Jun 19 18:59:42 2008
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:59:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web UI request
In-Reply-To: <3522-13705@sneakemail.com>
References: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>
	<5F07D492-396B-4992-A162-555A953C741B@zone12.com>
	<12403-89308@sneakemail.com>
	<5CB0EE34-78B7-4001-A81D-275B8485854F@zone12.com>
	<3522-13705@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <3A632F31-E5BA-4E5E-93E4-B0E33A7F1D30@zone12.com>


On 19-Jun-08, at 12:13 PM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
> On 18 Jun 2008, at 20:32, Terri Oda wrote:
>> I've opened up a new page on the wiki to get more of a process going:
>>
>> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Web+Interface
>
> This is great, but how should we use it? :)

Sign up for a wiki account and either edit the page or leave comments  
on the bottom.   I like your idea of doing regrouping, and I think  
the wiki format would better let multiple people edit the groupings  
until we find something that works.

That said, Brad is right -- this discussion should definitely be  
happening on mailman-developers rather than here, so I'll post  
further comments there.  Please direct any follow-ups to that list.

  Terri


From brad at python.org  Thu Jun 19 19:00:47 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:00:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply to list instead of poster
In-Reply-To: <23522-80279@sneakemail.com>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com>
	<4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com> <23522-80279@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <485A90BF.7000906@python.org>

Allan Odgaard wrote:

> I never understood why they have this recommendation or even default 
> setting and it has always bothered me when lists I subscribe to does not 
> change away from the default (fortunately majority of lists _do_ change 
> it).

See FAQ 3.48 at <http://wiki.list.org/x/44A9>.

> The problem is actually twofold:
> 
>  1. I routinely forget to reply to the list, and
>  2. I get private replies which I _think_ are meant for the list, but I 
> feel bad about following up to the list incase the poster really wanted 
> it to be private (plus list members lose half the conversation when only 
> the list is cc?ed on every second letter).

There are far stronger arguments that have been made for your view, and they 
are countered by even stronger arguments on our side.

> So what exactly is the reason for this recommendation (and default)?

See FAQ 3.48.

> And where do we lobby for a change? :)

Everything that could possibly be argued on either side of this issue has 
already been said, years ago.  There are no new arguments to be made.

Unless all of the current Mailman developers go away and all of the 
replacements feel the same way you do, this decision is not ever going to 
change.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From Jan at Bytesmiths.com  Thu Jun 19 19:04:06 2008
From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:04:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable word-wrap?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10269.1213890229.1043.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.10269.1213890229.1043.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <755FC06C-0E90-473E-A13C-385F8D1B0527@Bytesmiths.com>

I've done a quick scan of wiki.list.org, used grep and locate to try  
to find config options, and still cannot determine how to adjust the  
word-wrapping behaviour of Mailman.

I often send out long links to unsophisticated audiences, who then  
tell me "the link is broken" when Mailman breaks the link in order to  
wrap the line to some specific length. I'd rather not go the tinyurl  
opaque reference route, since the links I send are meaningfully read  
by my few sophisticated users.

Is there a place I can adjust the length to be much longer, or perhaps  
to disable word-wrapping altogether?

Thanks!

:::: Jan Steinman, Communication Steward, EcoReality http://www.EcoReality.org
:::: 2152 Fulford-Ganges Road, Salt Spring Island, BC V8K 1Z7, +1  
250.653.2024


From manuel at escapade.ch  Thu Jun 19 19:12:10 2008
From: manuel at escapade.ch (Manuel Goepfert)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:12:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives generation on new server
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008061814163307189aa8bdaf@msapiro>
References: <01db01c8d16c$e5a29610$5510a8c0@coolman>
	<PC18702008061814163307189aa8bdaf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <015901c8d22f$9c6e7680$5510a8c0@coolman>

Hi Mark,

> I suspect the issue is that the archive pages are in one character set
(iso-8859-1 ?) and the web server is declaring them to be something
else (utf-8 ?).

I was not clear in my initial email.

Actually already when generating my archives with bin/arch I have some
problems, the accents are not properly handled meaning I find the current
date/time in emails that are back in 2005 just because the month in the
header contains a "?" for example.

Manuel




From brad at python.org  Thu Jun 19 19:18:51 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:18:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web UI request
In-Reply-To: <3522-13705@sneakemail.com>
References: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>	<5F07D492-396B-4992-A162-555A953C741B@zone12.com>	<12403-89308@sneakemail.com>	<5CB0EE34-78B7-4001-A81D-275B8485854F@zone12.com>
	<3522-13705@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <485A94FB.5080205@python.org>

Allan Odgaard wrote:

>> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Web+Interface
> 
> This is great, but how should we use it? :)

This entire discussion belongs on the mailman-developers list, not 
mailman-users.

I say this as the co-moderator for both of the lists in question.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 19 19:57:43 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:57:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable word-wrap?
In-Reply-To: <755FC06C-0E90-473E-A13C-385F8D1B0527@Bytesmiths.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020080619105743068790c5f09a@msapiro>

Jan Steinman wrote:
>
>I often send out long links to unsophisticated audiences, who then  
>tell me "the link is broken" when Mailman breaks the link in order to  
>wrap the line to some specific length. I'd rather not go the tinyurl  
>opaque reference route, since the links I send are meaningfully read  
>by my few sophisticated users.


You might consider preview.tinyurl.com links.


>Is there a place I can adjust the length to be much longer, or perhaps  
>to disable word-wrapping altogether?


Mailman doesn't do line wrapping. There was an issue pre Mailman 2.1.10
with format=flowed being removed from the Content-Type header, which
removes the instruction to the receiving MUA to unwrap the lines that
were wrapped by the sending MUA, but this was fixed in Mailman 2.1.10.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 19 20:22:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:22:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Just  Stop Working
In-Reply-To: <39904.72.207.210.88.1213888197.squirrel@virga.srcc.lsu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806191122480593aaa88f01@msapiro>

cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu wrote:
>
>Everything was working fine.  I seriously have no idea why mailman stopped
>working.  It was like one day, I got a call, and it was no longer working.
> when i stop/start/restart with mailmanctl, things seem fine, no errors. 
>The web interface appears to work fine.  I have a stage server that I test
>all updates and new ideas on just to be sure I dont brick my production
>mailserver, and mailman works fine on that box.
>
>Any suggestions on how to debug this are welcome.


See <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Thu Jun 19 20:10:46 2008
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:10:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web UI request
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c47f889450cd@[192.168.1.199]> (message from Brad
	Knowles on Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:54:04 -0500)
References: <200806181522.m5IFMGA9032023@newbox.eroded.org>
	<200806182014.m5IKE0fo015251@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240801c47f889450cd@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <200806191810.m5JIAk4G013980@a.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:54:04 -0500
   From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>

   On 6/18/08, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
   >  I second this.  Subscribers losing their password and asking me to make
   >  changes for them is one of my biggest timesinks, outside of moderation.

   I don't molly-coddle users.  If they can't figure out for themselves 
   how to get their password sent to them, that's their problem.

:-)  I take a middle approach.  I tell them to log on to the site
(sometimes I'll cut and paste the link, sometimes I just say look on the
bottom of any post) and they can get their password from there.  If they
have an overridding circomstance, are really too disabled and computer
illiterate to follow such directions, or have honestly tried and failed,
then I try to help them.

But just replying to the letters and such can take a lot of time, if there
are several.  It was also a big issue because for a long time I didn't know
that the password could be sent to someone more than monthly.  I always
changed mine to ones I memorized and it's not obvious on the login page.

   But then I'm in a position where it's probably a lot easier for me to 
   do that for me and my user base as compared to you and your user 
   base.  ;-)

Yep.  Part of running a support group for people with disabilities is that
you can't assume they all have solid computer skills, their own computers,
or the ability to figure it all out.

Cyndi


From Jan at Bytesmiths.com  Thu Jun 19 20:46:44 2008
From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:46:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable word-wrap?
In-Reply-To: <PC187020080619105743068790c5f09a@msapiro>
References: <PC187020080619105743068790c5f09a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <230F755A-80E7-46CA-ADC8-9D0FF9B1E922@Bytesmiths.com>


On 19 Jun 08, at 10:57, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> Is there a place I can adjust the length to be much longer, or  
>> perhaps
>> to disable word-wrapping altogether?
>
> Mailman doesn't do line wrapping.


Interesting. The only email that I send out that gets wrapped is stuff  
that goes through Mailman. I can send the exact same thing to a  
postfix alias of exactly the same people, and it doesn't get wrapped.

So it may well be true that "Mailman doesn't do line wrapping," but  
from my perspective, it's doing something that *causes* line wrapping  
to happen!

In fact, I'd venture to guess that this email, which is sent to the  
list and to Mark and I on the Cc: will show up wrapped on the list,  
and not wrapped on the Cc's.

Regardless of who's doing it, any better ideas on how to keep it from  
happening? Line-wrapping is so "VT-100" '80's. I'm staring at Mark's  
email on my 1920-pixel screen, with about 9/10th of the screen showing  
blank white.

:::: Jan Steinman, Communication Steward, EcoReality http://www.EcoReality.org
:::: 2152 Fulford-Ganges Road, Salt Spring Island, BC V8K 1Z7, +1  
250.653.2024


From srb at umich.edu  Thu Jun 19 21:02:48 2008
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:02:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable word-wrap?
In-Reply-To: <230F755A-80E7-46CA-ADC8-9D0FF9B1E922@Bytesmiths.com>
References: <PC187020080619105743068790c5f09a@msapiro>
	<230F755A-80E7-46CA-ADC8-9D0FF9B1E922@Bytesmiths.com>
Message-ID: <A0CB5F3E47F75D5A46810316@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>

--On June 19, 2008 11:46:44 AM -0700 Jan Steinman <Jan at Bytesmiths.com> 
wrote:

> In fact, I'd venture to guess that this email, which is sent to the list
> and to Mark and I on the Cc: will show up wrapped on the list, and not
> wrapped on the Cc's.

To which I reply:

For what it's worth, it didn't arrive line-wrapped at my end.  The wider I 
made my mail window, the longer the lines got.  Well, until I got it about 
60% of my 2560-pixel wide screen, and then each of the four paragraphs in 
your text was on one line, so further widening made no more difference.

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From Jan at Bytesmiths.com  Thu Jun 19 21:08:42 2008
From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:08:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable word-wrap?
In-Reply-To: <A0CB5F3E47F75D5A46810316@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>
References: <PC187020080619105743068790c5f09a@msapiro>
	<230F755A-80E7-46CA-ADC8-9D0FF9B1E922@Bytesmiths.com>
	<A0CB5F3E47F75D5A46810316@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <DD5595D3-C213-4DA0-8CCB-4551C0A77BCF@Bytesmiths.com>

On 19 Jun 08, at 12:02, Steve Burling wrote:

> --On June 19, 2008 11:46:44 AM -0700 Jan Steinman  
> <Jan at Bytesmiths.com> wrote:
>
>> In fact, I'd venture to guess that this email, which is sent to the  
>> list
>> and to Mark and I on the Cc: will show up wrapped on the list, and  
>> not
>> wrapped on the Cc's.
>
> To which I reply:
>
> For what it's worth, it didn't arrive line-wrapped at my end.  The  
> wider I made my mail window, the longer the lines got.

Interestinger and interestinger... the text Steve says wasn't line- 
wrapped became so when quoted, above, but his reply text was not.

:::: Jan Steinman, Communication Steward, EcoReality http://www.EcoReality.org
:::: 2152 Fulford-Ganges Road, Salt Spring Island, BC V8K 1Z7, +1  
250.653.2024


From terri at zone12.com  Thu Jun 19 20:55:31 2008
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:55:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable word-wrap?
In-Reply-To: <230F755A-80E7-46CA-ADC8-9D0FF9B1E922@Bytesmiths.com>
References: <PC187020080619105743068790c5f09a@msapiro>
	<230F755A-80E7-46CA-ADC8-9D0FF9B1E922@Bytesmiths.com>
Message-ID: <26F9A6F7-4B0F-496C-974E-3C576ECFA020@zone12.com>

On 19-Jun-08, at 2:46 PM, Jan Steinman wrote:
> So it may well be true that "Mailman doesn't do line wrapping," but  
> from my perspective, it's doing something that *causes* line  
> wrapping to happen!

If Mailman is converting html->text, I think it does add line- 
wrapping as a side effect of the conversion.  I don't know if this is  
what you're seeing, though.

  Terri


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 19 21:16:19 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:16:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives generation on new server
In-Reply-To: <015901c8d22f$9c6e7680$5510a8c0@coolman>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061912161905782c7df915@msapiro>

Manuel Goepfert wrote:
>
>Actually already when generating my archives with bin/arch I have some
>problems, the accents are not properly handled meaning I find the current
>date/time in emails that are back in 2005 just because the month in the
>header contains a "?" for example.


Date: headers should not be localized. See section 3.3 of RFC 2822
<http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2822.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 19 21:45:30 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:45:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable word-wrap?
In-Reply-To: <DD5595D3-C213-4DA0-8CCB-4551C0A77BCF@Bytesmiths.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061912453007509b036dcc@msapiro>

Jan Steinman wrote:

>On 19 Jun 08, at 12:02, Steve Burling wrote:
>
>> For what it's worth, it didn't arrive line-wrapped at my end.  The  
>> wider I made my mail window, the longer the lines got.
>
>Interestinger and interestinger... the text Steve says wasn't line- 
>wrapped became so when quoted, above, but his reply text was not.


I told you the answer in my initial reply, but to reiterate with more
detail, the copy of your reply which I received by direct Cc: has the
header:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

This means that the text may have been (was in this case) wrapped and a
trailing <space> added immediately preceding any inserted <CRLF>. See
RFC 2646 <http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2646.html> for details.

Then, your first paragraph was sent as

>Interesting. The only email that I send out that gets wrapped is stuff  
>that goes through Mailman. I can send the exact same thing to a  
>postfix alias of exactly the same people, and it doesn't get wrapped.

You may not see it, but the first two of the three lines end with two
spaces. The format=flowed and delsp=yes parameters tell the receiving
MUA that each line that ends in a space should have the space removed
and be joined to the following line making

>Interesting. The only email that I send out that gets wrapped is stuff that goes through Mailman. I can send the exact same thing to a postfix alias of exactly the same people, and it doesn't get wrapped.

The problem is that prior to Mailman 2.1.10, the format=flowed and
delsp=yes parameters were not preserved in the outgoing message, thus
the receiving MUA doesn't unwrap the lines per RFC 2646.

So, I suspect you are seeing this issue on a pre-2.1.10 Mailman. Note
that the loss of the format=flowed and delsp=yes parameters most
likely occurred when msg_header and/or msg_footer was added to the
message, and if you set these 'empty', the problem will be avoided.

>In fact, I'd venture to guess that this email, which is sent to the list and to Mark and I on the Cc: will show up wrapped on the list, and not wrapped on the Cc's.

So did you receive a copy from this 2.1.10 list? If so, what did it
look like?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeff.donsbach at gmail.com  Thu Jun 19 21:46:38 2008
From: jeff.donsbach at gmail.com (Jeff Donsbach)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:46:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list messages lost to Hotmail subscribers lost
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c47f894e7c78@192.168.1.199>
References: <PC1870200806181549170609de51f0f2@msapiro>
	<p06240802c47f894e7c78@192.168.1.199>
Message-ID: <22976ef80806191246s138fb56btb4a622cdac0f5d7a@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know what happened, but earlier this morning, my subscribers
started getting list messages delivered on Hotmail again. We didn't do
anything, other than to ask a few of our subscribers to add our domain
to their "Safe List". At least for now, our issue seems to have solved
itself ...... until next time that is.

Thanks to everyone who responded.

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Thu Jun 19 21:44:18 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:44:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <485A8FFE.8000608@python.org>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com>	<4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>
	<485A8FFE.8000608@python.org>
Message-ID: <485AB712.6030200@Media-Brokers.com>

On 6/19/2008, Brad Knowles (brad at python.org) wrote:
> Correct.  The Mailman developers feel that forcing all replies to go
> back to the list causes much more harm than good, see FAQ 3.48 at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/44A9>.

Whats the big deal anyway? If you want lists configured to reply to the 
list, just set it that way. What difference does it make what the 
default is?

Until the vast majority of the most popular mail clients have a proper 
'Reply-To-List' function (TBird doesn't, although it has an extension 
that tries to do it, it isn't very good at it) discussion lists should 
definitely (imnsho) be configured to reply to list, and I always change 
the ones I manage to do so.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 19 22:07:09 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:07:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable word-wrap?
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008061912453007509b036dcc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC18702008061913070907654f3470c6@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Jan Steinman wrote:
>
>>Interesting. The only email that I send out that gets wrapped is stuff that goes through Mailman. I can send the exact same thing to a postfix alias of exactly the same people, and it doesn't get wrapped.

and

>>In fact, I'd venture to guess that this email, which is sent to the list and to Mark and I on the Cc: will show up wrapped on the list, and not wrapped on the Cc's.


For the record, the copy of my previous post to this thread that I
received from the list had the above quoted lines not wrapped. I am
sending this to the list only (w/o Ccs) so that everyone will receive
it from the list and see that the quoted lines above aren't wrapped in
this post either (This paragraph is wrapped, because that's the way
this MUA works).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at python.org  Thu Jun 19 23:20:02 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:20:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable word-wrap?
In-Reply-To: <26F9A6F7-4B0F-496C-974E-3C576ECFA020@zone12.com>
References: <PC187020080619105743068790c5f09a@msapiro>	<230F755A-80E7-46CA-ADC8-9D0FF9B1E922@Bytesmiths.com>
	<26F9A6F7-4B0F-496C-974E-3C576ECFA020@zone12.com>
Message-ID: <485ACD82.6090107@python.org>

Terri Oda wrote:

> If Mailman is converting html->text, I think it does add line-wrapping 
> as a side effect of the conversion.  I don't know if this is what you're 
> seeing, though.

But Mailman doesn't do the actual conversion itself.  IIRC, it just calls 
"lynx" to do the line-wrapping.  Either that, or the line-wrapping is done 
in an Python library for handling e-mail, which Mailman makes use of.

Either way, the responsible party here is not Mailman per se.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From brad at python.org  Thu Jun 19 23:23:25 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:23:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <485AB712.6030200@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com>	<4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>	<485A8FFE.8000608@python.org>
	<485AB712.6030200@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <485ACE4D.9060303@python.org>

Charles Marcus wrote:

> Whats the big deal anyway? If you want lists configured to reply to the 
> list, just set it that way. What difference does it make what the 
> default is?

The point is that there are lots of MUAs out there that are broken, and if 
you screw with the Reply-To: header, they are completely and totally unable 
to change who the reply is sent to.  This is how private information gets 
exposed on public lists, with consequences ranging from just being 
personally embarassing, to getting you fired, to actually being 
life-threatening in some cases.

Do you really want to be responsible for something that could get someone 
killed?

> Until the vast majority of the most popular mail clients have a proper 
> 'Reply-To-List' function (TBird doesn't, although it has an extension 
> that tries to do it, it isn't very good at it) discussion lists should 
> definitely (imnsho) be configured to reply to list, and I always change 
> the ones I manage to do so.

Then you must not have read the FAQ I referenced.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From barry at list.org  Thu Jun 19 23:36:30 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:36:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GPLv3
Message-ID: <966860EB-6431-4605-960E-3F40AA2C72C7@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

As you know, GNU Mailman has been an official GNU project for almost  
its entire life.

As such, our project receives certain benefits and has certain  
responsibilities.  One of our responsibilities is to adopt the  
standard GNU licensing regime.  This aligns with our goals for the  
project and so we do it gladly.

Last year, the Free Software Foundation released a significant update  
to the venerable GNU General Public License, called version 3 or  
GPLv3.  Recently, the FSF has been asking GNU projects in general, and  
GNU Mailman in particular to update to the GPLv3.  I think this is a  
good idea.  Briefly, compatibility with the Apache ASL 2.0 and the  
ability to exempt Python system libraries are two big benefits for us.

In talking with the FSF, we've agreed not to change Mailman 2.1 at  
all.  We will continue to release new Mailman 2.1 versions under the  
GPLv2, though hopefully after 2.1.11 there won't /be/ any more new 2.1  
releases ;).

Both Mailman 2.2 and 3.0 will be released under the GPLv3.  We've not  
made the changes to the source code yet, but we should do that soon.

I hope that you, our great Mailman community, will support this  
effort.  I don't think we need a big debate about the FSF, GNU or GPL  
here.  Long ago we committed to being a GNU project, and this is what  
the FSF wants all GNU projects to do.  I have less experience with the  
GPLv3 (as we all do!) but from my discussions and reading, I think the  
GPLv3 is a good license.  Please note that we are not planning to  
adopt the Affero GPLv3 even though Mailman has such a prominent web  
presence.

If you have a specific hardship with our adoption of GPLv3 for Mailman  
2.2 and 3.0, please let me know.  I may not be able to answer your  
questions, but we can bring in some official GNU and FSF people to  
help us address them.  I don't have a time frame for making the  
switch, but I'd like to do it soonish, and definitely before any next  
alpha release.

For more information, please see:

http://gplv3.fsf.org/
http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html

Cheers,
- -Barry

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From vancleef at lostwells.net  Fri Jun 20 00:20:01 2008
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:20:01 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing questions (feature, or bug?)
Message-ID: <200806192220.m5JMK1r3028764@julie.lostwells.net>

The background scenario is that I have been experiencing the "now you
see it/now you don't" big-consumer-internet mail service spam
blocking.  This week it is Verizon.net.  

Basically, mail to verizon.net addresses failed and bounced for a 24
hour period on the 12th.  Service appeared to have been restored on
the 13th.  Again, yesterday (the 18th), Verizon quit receiving mail
again.  The log message being shown by sendmail is of the the form:

Jun 19 10:49:00 julie sendmail[16973]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
m5JGmxNk016971: to=<customer at verizon.net>,
ctladdr=<vancleef at julie.lostwells.net> (101/10), delay=00:00:00,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=121428, relay=relay.verizon.net.
[206.46.232.11], dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable

For the four days June 13-17, mail went verizon.net normally,
dsn-2.0.0, stat=Sent 

Two Verizon users have contacted me and told me that they had received
no mail from our list since the 11th; that they had contacted Verizon
support, and had been told that Verizon was not blocking or dumping
our list mails.  Both users are sufficiently knowledgeable to have
looked for shunting to a "spam" or "bulk" file.  I wrote a private
e-mail to one user giving log details for him to use.  That e-mail
bounced back sky high, and the bounce message made clear that Verizon
has a spam block on my IP.  The log message was another dsn=5.0.0
stat=Service unavailable.

I decided to change the bounce processing so that if this "Service
unavailable" bouncing continued into a second day, the affected
Verizon users would get bounce-trapped, and I'd see the triggering
bounce messages.  Accordingly I changed:

Bounce score from 3.0 to 2.0
Discard period from 2 to 4 days
Number of warnings from 3 to 2
Notification interval left at 7 days

I've just double checked to be sure that the numbers in the window are
2.0, 4, 2, and 7.

This did exactly what I wanted, and I've got about thirty bounce
messages showing 5.7.1 security bounces, some of which I've forwarded
(via another IP) to affected Verizon users for their use in dealing
with the ISP.

However, I've also gotten about fifty other bounce disables on the 2.0
score.  Some investigation shows that affected users had accumulated
two bounces several months ago, but none since.  From what I see in
the bounce logs still in my rotation, it appears that the bounce
processor did not sense that these bounces were very stale (over 90
days, when I've specified 4), but simply operated on my reducing the
score from 3.0 to 2.0.  A couple of users have forwarded back the
bounce e-mail they received and have noted the "last bounce dates" in
March-April. 

Mailman version is 2.1.9, local build with Python 2.4.3 on Solaris 9.

Hank

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 20 00:58:07 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:58:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing questions (feature, or bug?)
In-Reply-To: <200806192220.m5JMK1r3028764@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806191558070109be44aaf4@msapiro>

Hank van Cleef wrote:
>
>However, I've also gotten about fifty other bounce disables on the 2.0
>score.  Some investigation shows that affected users had accumulated
>two bounces several months ago, but none since.  From what I see in
>the bounce logs still in my rotation, it appears that the bounce
>processor did not sense that these bounces were very stale (over 90
>days, when I've specified 4), but simply operated on my reducing the
>score from 3.0 to 2.0.  A couple of users have forwarded back the
>bounce e-mail they received and have noted the "last bounce dates" in
>March-April. 
>
>Mailman version is 2.1.9, local build with Python 2.4.3 on Solaris 9.


Fixed in 2.1.10.

See <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/reset_bounce.py> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/reset_bounce.py>) for a withlist
script to do a mass re-enable by domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 20 02:16:02 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:16:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipients missing on list post
In-Reply-To: <20080619140129.GG15226@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806191716020203a4f459cd@msapiro>

Stefan F?rster wrote:
>
>Now, 22+26+19+158 equals 225 and not 226 - no rejected mails, no
>NOQUEUE entries. Either Postfix or Mailman is lying. How can I find
>out which one it is, aside from running ngrep/tcpdump?


I'm not sure if this is better, but if your Python is 2.4 or later, see
<http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9> for a patch that can be applied to
Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to produce copious debugging output
from Python's smtplib to Mailman's error log


>Which additional configuration data do I have to provide to aid in
>remote debugging this?


Just for curiosity, try the following:

bin/list_members listname >file1
sort -f file1 >file2
sort -f -u file1 >file3
diff file2 file3

You could also patch Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to add

    syslog.write('smtp', 'recips this chunk = %d', len(recips))

at the end of the module as the last line of bulkdeliver which will
give you Mailman's count per chunk to compare with Postfix. You could
even add

    syslog.write('smtp', 'recipient list %s', recips)

to list the recipients of the chunk.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com  Fri Jun 20 08:12:43 2008
From: 8qbfgka02 at sneakemail.com (Allan Odgaard)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:12:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <485ACE4D.9060303@python.org>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com>	<4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>	<485A8FFE.8000608@python.org>
	<485AB712.6030200@Media-Brokers.com> <485ACE4D.9060303@python.org>
Message-ID: <18012-51248@sneakemail.com>

For users who have their mail go through procmail the problem can be  
fixed by a rule like the following. But in light of Brads letter, I  
feel it is necessary to add a disclaimer saying that if this setting  
gets you killed or fired, I cannot be held responsible! :p

     :0 fw
     * ^TO_mailman-users at python.org|^List-id: .*<mailman- 
users.python.org>
     | formail -i "Reply-To: mailman-users at python.org"

A more fancy solution could extract the list address from the list- 
post header (and target all list letters w/o a reply-to).

I use an anonymous remailer so personally wouldn?t work for me, plus  
when people reply to me and cc the list, there are no list headers in  
that message, even though it is a list message (one of the reasons  
?reply to poster? sucks).

Btw: does anyone know any of these many MUAs that Brad speak of? I  
can?t help but wonder how users of these can participate in list  
conversation with Mailman?s default setting, given their inability to  
control where their letters are sent to.


On 19 Jun 2008, at 23:23, Brad Knowles wrote:

> Charles Marcus wrote:
>
>> Whats the big deal anyway? If you want lists configured to reply to  
>> the list, just set it that way. What difference does it make what  
>> the default is?
>
> The point is that there are lots of MUAs out there that are broken,  
> and if you screw with the Reply-To: header, they are completely and  
> totally unable to change who the reply is sent to.
>
> This is how private information gets exposed on public lists, with  
> consequences ranging from just being personally embarassing, to  
> getting you fired, to actually being life-threatening in some cases.
>
> Do you really want to be responsible for something that could get  
> someone killed?


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Jun 20 08:39:07 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:39:07 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply to list instead of poster
	(was:	Muti-Mailmaninstall)
In-Reply-To: <9846-37856@sneakemail.com>
References: <PC187020080619065344035989d1e053@msapiro>
	<9846-37856@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <87ej6sr4ok.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Allan Odgaard writes:

[ repetitive lobbying removed ]

Please stop lobbying, period, and move these discussions off this
list.  We heard you the first time, you've been told the appropriate
venue.  Now this is just noise interfering with helping users with
their everyday problems.

If you really want to push any of your proposals forward, submit
patches.  Nobody is going to preapprove a verbal description of a
patch that you *might* write.  (No offense to you, but my experience
as a project leader is that about 2/3 of the patches that somebody is
absolutely positively definitely going to write are never submitted.)

I have some comments on your proposals which I am absolutely
positively definitely going to write assuming the proposals ever get
submitted in an appropriate venue.



From saschahb at gmx.net  Fri Jun 20 08:26:23 2008
From: saschahb at gmx.net (Sascha Schmidt)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:26:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authorization required with FireFox 3
In-Reply-To: <485A8ED4.4060900@shub-internet.org>
References: <4859FAFB.7080203@gmx.net> <485A8ED4.4060900@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <485B4D8F.3050007@gmx.net>

Hi,

thanks for your replies.

- I've deleted all cookies
- Cleared the browser-cache

but to login at the password prompt does not work.

BUT: Giving the password directly with the ?adminpw= argument works 
perfectly. Don't know why this works, but not through the other way 
(password prompt).

Greets
Sascha

Brad Knowles schrieb:
> Sascha Schmidt wrote:
> 
>> yesterday, 2 days after the release of FireFox 3 I'm trying to login 
>> to my mailman 2.1.10 installation. After entering the correct password 
>> the errormessage "Authorization failed" is shown. Deleting the Browser 
>> Cache/Cookies didn't fix the problem.
>>
>> There's no problem logging in with Firefox 2 and IE.
>> Someone can reproduce this behaviour?
> 
> I've already used Firefox 3 to log into two separate Mailman mailing 
> list services that I administer, with no problems.
> 
> Tell us more about how you've got Firefox configured, and we might be in 
> a better position to help.
> 

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Jun 20 08:44:42 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:44:42 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <485ACE4D.9060303@python.org>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com> <16288-61549@sneakemail.com>
	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com> <13061-77666@sneakemail.com>
	<4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com> <485A8FFE.8000608@python.org>
	<485AB712.6030200@Media-Brokers.com> <485ACE4D.9060303@python.org>
Message-ID: <87d4mcr4f9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > Then you must not have read the FAQ I referenced.

Please, Brad, don't go there.  You know he's not going to change his
mind, neither are you, or me, but what matters is that neither will
Barry.  So it's a moot point.

From fcocquyt at stanford.edu  Fri Jun 20 12:33:13 2008
From: fcocquyt at stanford.edu (Fletcher Cocquyt)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 03:33:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Options for increasing throughput
Message-ID: <C480D579.1EF4C%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>

Hi, I am observing periods of qfiles/in backlogs in the 400-600 message
count range that take 1-2hours to clear with the standard Mailman 2.1.9 +
Spamassassin (the vette log shows these messages process in an avg of ~10
seconds each)

Is there an easy way to parallelize what looks like a single serialized
Mailman queue?
I see some posts re: multi-slice ? but nothing definitive

I would also like the option of working this into an overall loadbalancing
scheme where I have multiple smtp nodes behind an F5 loadbalancer and the
nodes share an NFS backend...

Many thanks for pointers to any HOWTO docs or wiki notes on this

Fletcher.

From b19141 at anl.gov  Fri Jun 20 14:23:07 2008
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:23:07 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing questions (feature, or bug?)
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Hank van Cleef <vancleef@lostwells.net>'
	dated: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:20:01 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20080620122307.A40E417554@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

Hank van Cleef <vancleef at lostwells.net> wrote, in part,

>The background scenario is that I have been experiencing the "now you
>see it/now you don't" big-consumer-internet mail service spam
>blocking.  This week it is Verizon.net.  
>
>Basically, mail to verizon.net addresses failed and bounced for a 24
>hour period on the 12th.  Service appeared to have been restored on
>the 13th.  Again, yesterday (the 18th), Verizon quit receiving mail
>again.  The log message being shown by sendmail is of the the form:
>
>Jun 19 10:49:00 julie sendmail[16973]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>m5JGmxNk016971: to=<customer at verizon.net>,
>ctladdr=<vancleef at julie.lostwells.net> (101/10), delay=00:00:00,
>xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=121428, relay=relay.verizon.net.
>[206.46.232.11], dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable
>
>For the four days June 13-17, mail went verizon.net normally,
>dsn-2.0.0, stat=Sent 
>
>Two Verizon users have contacted me and told me that they had received
>no mail from our list since the 11th; that they had contacted Verizon
>support, and had been told that Verizon was not blocking or dumping
>our list mails.  Both users are sufficiently knowledgeable to have
>looked for shunting to a "spam" or "bulk" file.  I wrote a private
>e-mail to one user giving log details for him to use.  That e-mail
>bounced back sky high, and the bounce message made clear that Verizon
>has a spam block on my IP.  The log message was another dsn=5.0.0
>stat=Service unavailable.

It seems to me that 

     stat=Service unavailable

means that the inbound mailer is not available at the moment.
This should result in a 400-level SMTP retryable reject, not a
500-level hard reject.  The statement

     "Verizon was not blocking or dumping our list mails"

is technically a correct statement; Verizon is not accepting mail.

Another thought comes to mind - when this happens, is Verizon rejecting
all mail, or is that mailer selectively not accepting mail?  If
Verizon is selectively rejecting mail, then I would expect a different
message than

     dsn=5.0.0 stat=Service unavailable.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Fri Jun 20 14:51:13 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:51:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <485ACE4D.9060303@python.org>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com>	<4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>	<485A8FFE.8000608@python.org>
	<485AB712.6030200@Media-Brokers.com> <485ACE4D.9060303@python.org>
Message-ID: <485BA7C1.4050407@Media-Brokers.com>

You replied on list, so I will too... but I will not respond to further 
arguments about it, since neither of us are likely to change our mind.

On 6/19/2008, Brad Knowles (brad at python.org) wrote:
>> Whats the big deal anyway? If you want lists configured to reply to
>> the list, just set it that way. What difference does it make what the
 >> default is?

> The point is that there are lots of MUAs out there that are broken,

I didn't intend to open up this debate, because I *have* read - and 
*understand* the arguments on both sides. *Ideally*, I agree with you 
and the Mailman devs... *realistically*, though, most discussion lists - 
for most people, using the most popular mail clients - operate much more 
smoothly when Reply-to munging is implemented.

*My* point was simply pointing out that there *is a preference setting* 
in the Mailman GUI for changing this, so if someone *wants* to change 
it, they obviously *can* - so what difference does the *default* make?

 > and if you screw with the Reply-To: header, they are completely and
 > totally unable to change who the reply is sent to.

Sorry, but this isn't true for any mail client I've ever used... ever 
heard of copy/cut/paste? Yeah, it requires some manual labor, rather 
than clicking a button, but it can still be done.

In fact, I must do this a little of this when participating *on this 
list*. First, I have to hit 'Reply All' to get the list address in the 
CC field, then I change the 'CC' to 'To', then *delete* the *posters* 
email address so that they don't get a duplicate - which, by the way, I 
notice you don't have the courtesy to do.

I wouldn't have to do any of that, if the Reply-to was set to the list.

But without being specific - like, what specific MUA's have this problem 
- its kind of hard to argue.

> This is how private information gets exposed on public lists, with
> consequences ranging from just being personally embarassing, to
> getting you fired,

If someone is dumb enough to send information of such a nature without 
actually *looking* at where it is going, then yeah, they might actually 
be required to pay the consequences...

> to actually being life-threatening in some cases.
> 
> Do you really want to be responsible for something that could get
 > someone killed?

Lol! Thanks, I needed that...

>> Until the vast majority of the most popular mail clients have a
 >> proper 'Reply-To-List' function (TBird doesn't, although it has an
 >> extension that tries to do it, it isn't very good at it) discussion
 >> lists should definitely (imnsho) be configured to reply to list, and
 >> I always change the ones I manage to do so.

> Then you must not have read the FAQ I referenced.

I did... I just believe that it is *ideally* correct, but 
*realistically* incorrect, due to the reality of limitations in both the 
most popular mail clients *and* the *behavior* of most people on 
discussion lists (they don't know the difference, and more importantly 
*don't care*).

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From barry at list.org  Fri Jun 20 15:10:47 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:10:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GPLv3
In-Reply-To: <966860EB-6431-4605-960E-3F40AA2C72C7@list.org>
References: <966860EB-6431-4605-960E-3F40AA2C72C7@list.org>
Message-ID: <8899992D-54B6-4DAC-95C3-9093250DE77F@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Jun 19, 2008, at 5:36 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:

> If you have a specific hardship with our adoption of GPLv3 for  
> Mailman 2.2 and 3.0, please let me know.  I may not be able to  
> answer your questions, but we can bring in some official GNU and FSF  
> people to help us address them.  I don't have a time frame for  
> making the switch, but I'd like to do it soonish, and definitely  
> before any next alpha release.

I have started a wiki page that we can use to collect and answer any  
issues with the switch.  I invite you to add your comments to this page:

http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/GPLv3

Cheers,
- -Barry

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From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 20 16:20:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:20:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing questions (feature, or bug?)
In-Reply-To: <20080620122307.A40E417554@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062007205509376b50ef20@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>Hank van Cleef <vancleef at lostwells.net> wrote, in part,
>
<snip>
>>
>>For the four days June 13-17, mail went verizon.net normally,
>>dsn-2.0.0, stat=Sent 
>>
>>Two Verizon users have contacted me and told me that they had received
>>no mail from our list since the 11th; that they had contacted Verizon
>>support, and had been told that Verizon was not blocking or dumping
>>our list mails.  Both users are sufficiently knowledgeable to have
>>looked for shunting to a "spam" or "bulk" file.
<snip>
>
>It seems to me that 
>
>     stat=Service unavailable
>
>means that the inbound mailer is not available at the moment.
>This should result in a 400-level SMTP retryable reject, not a
>500-level hard reject.


This status is often used to reject mail that is detected as spam.


>The statement
>
>     "Verizon was not blocking or dumping our list mails"
>
>is technically a correct statement; Verizon is not accepting mail.


If you re-read the sections I left above, you'll see that Hank says
from June 13-17 list mail to verizon.net was accepted with an extended
2.0.0 status but was not delivered to the recipient's inbox, bulk or
spam folders.


>Another thought comes to mind - when this happens, is Verizon rejecting
>all mail, or is that mailer selectively not accepting mail?  If
>Verizon is selectively rejecting mail, then I would expect a different
>message than
>
>     dsn=5.0.0 stat=Service unavailable.


Again, this response is often sent in response to the end of data to
indicate that the data was unacceptable.

It can also be sent earlier in the SMTP transaction if the MTA doesn't
like the sender.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Fri Jun 20 16:24:01 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:24:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Calling all Mailman consultants
Message-ID: <0C4AB83D-1423-40EE-A086-DBC88B30F0EB@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi everybody,

I get asked all the time: will you set up my lists for pay?

I'm not interested or able to do this kind of work, but I always feel  
bad about turning people away without some pointers to other people.   
I've started a wiki page for those of you who might be interested in  
picking up some of this business.

http://wiki.list.org/display/COM/Mailman+consulting+services

This is different than the Mailman hosting page, but if you do both,  
it's okay to be on both lists!  If you perform these kinds of  
services, please do sign up on that page because I will be pointing  
people to it in the future.

Cheers,
- -Barry

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From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 20 16:38:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:38:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <485BA7C1.4050407@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062007385503439ca4ae4e@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:
>
>*My* point was simply pointing out that there *is a preference setting* 
>in the Mailman GUI for changing this, so if someone *wants* to change 
>it, they obviously *can* - so what difference does the *default* make?


There is also an mm_cfg.py setting to override the default for new
lists, but the fact remains that many people, even competent people,
are busy and don't have time to research every setting and option, so
they tend to go with defaults until there is a problem. That's why the
choice of default is important to many people.


<snip>
>In fact, I must do this a little of this when participating *on this 
>list*. First, I have to hit 'Reply All' to get the list address in the 
>CC field, then I change the 'CC' to 'To', then *delete* the *posters* 
>email address so that they don't get a duplicate - which, by the way, I 
>notice you don't have the courtesy to do.


It is not a matter of courtesy. There are many arguments for not
editing out the addiditional recipients including:
 - one or more may be a reply-to that is not a list member address but
an address the poster wants the mail to go to, and similarly for Ccs.
 - the poster may be a digest member and Ccing back to the poster keeps
that person in the loop.

Note that Mailman will remove addresses from Cc: if they are list
members with 'nodupes' set.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 20 16:41:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:41:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <18012-51248@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062007414705319ca4af02@msapiro>

Allan Odgaard wrote:
>
>I use an anonymous remailer so personally wouldn?t work for me, plus  
>when people reply to me and cc the list, there are no list headers in  
>that message, even though it is a list message (one of the reasons  
>"reply to poster" sucks).


If this is a problem for you, set "avoid duplicates" to No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 20 17:23:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:23:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authorization required with FireFox 3
In-Reply-To: <485B4D8F.3050007@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062008231303280becef15@msapiro>

Sascha Schmidt wrote:
>
>thanks for your replies.
>
>- I've deleted all cookies
>- Cleared the browser-cache
>
>but to login at the password prompt does not work.


I assume by "password prompt" you mean the admin and/or admindb login
page.


>BUT: Giving the password directly with the ?adminpw= argument works 
>perfectly. Don't know why this works, but not through the other way 
>(password prompt).


Are you 'realriot', the submitther of SF bug [ 1996767 ] Authorization
failed using FF3 (Win32)? If so, I can avoid commenting there until we
have some resolution here.

The two methods, going to
<http://example.com/mailman/admin/list?adminpw=xxx> vs. logging in
from the login page are completely different. The former is an HTTP
GET for the url with the additional adminpw fragment; the latter is a
POST with a few items of post data including adminpw.

Questions:

Can you administer the list or just moderate? Whichever you can do,
once you log in via the ?adminpw= method, does the rest of the
interface work? Can you successfully change things, approve posts,
whatever?

Can you log in to a private archive?

Can you log in to your user options page on this (mailman-users) list?

What Mailman version is yours? What Windows version?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kmcarthu at bates.edu  Fri Jun 20 16:55:22 2008
From: kmcarthu at bates.edu (Karen R McArthur)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:55:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderate to sender?
Message-ID: <485BC4DA.6030609@bates.edu>

If a person is a member of a certain List (Staff, for example) and sends 
a message which may need moderation - is there a way to send that SENDER 
the moderator message instead of the administrator or moderator?  The 
purpose of this that we want some of our constituencies to be able to 
diagnose and fix their own email (if the message is too long, either 
shorten it and resubmit or find another method of distribution).

However, if the person is not in the Staff list, the moderation should 
happen as normal.

-- 
Karen R. McArthur <kmcarthu at bates.edu>
Systems Administrator
Information and Library Services, Bates College
Lewiston, Maine 04240 USA
ph:(207)786-8236   fax:(207)786-6057

If you find that everybody else is right and you're wrong,
it might just be that you're thinking outside the box. The
world is yet to catch up.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 20 18:01:21 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:01:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Options for increasing throughput
In-Reply-To: <C480D579.1EF4C%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062009012104689ca4aea9@msapiro>

Fletcher Cocquyt wrote:

>Hi, I am observing periods of qfiles/in backlogs in the 400-600 message
>count range that take 1-2hours to clear with the standard Mailman 2.1.9 +
>Spamassassin (the vette log shows these messages process in an avg of ~10
>seconds each)


Is Spamassassin invoked from Mailman or from the MTA before Mailman? If
this plain Mailman, 10 seconds is a hugely long time to process a
single post through IncomingRunner.

If you have some Spamassassin interface like
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=640518&group_id=103&atid=300103>
that calls spamd from a Mailman handler, you might consider moving
Spamassassin ahead of Mailman and using something like
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=840426&group_id=103&atid=300103>
or just header_filter_rules instead.


>Is there an easy way to parallelize what looks like a single serialized
>Mailman queue?
>I see some posts re: multi-slice ? but nothing definitive


See the section of Defaults.py headed with

#####
# Qrunner defaults
#####

In order to run multiple, parallel IncomingRunner processes, you can
either copy the entire QRUNNERS definition from Defaults.py to
mm_cfg.py
and change

    ('IncomingRunner', 1), # posts from the outside world

to

    ('IncomingRunner', 4), # posts from the outside world


which says run 4 IncomingRunner processes, or you can just add
something like

QRUNNERS[QRUNNERS.index(('IncomingRunner',1))] = ('IncomingRunner',4)

to mm_cfg.py. You can use any power of two for the number.


>I would also like the option of working this into an overall loadbalancing
>scheme where I have multiple smtp nodes behind an F5 loadbalancer and the
>nodes share an NFS backend...


The following search will return some information.

<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman++%22load+balancing%22>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jesus at evangelizacion.org.mx  Fri Jun 20 17:54:32 2008
From: jesus at evangelizacion.org.mx (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_Rivas?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:54:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] statics
Message-ID: <485BD2B8.4030204@evangelizacion.org.mx>

anyone have a statics of how many message per hour send.
a like to migrate to mailman but i need static for that

thanks

-- 
Saludos!!!


Jesus Alonso Rivas
Sistemas

_____________________________________
Evangelizaci?n Activa
Comunicaci?n Digital al Servicio del Evangelio
www.evangelizacion.org.mx


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 20 18:31:38 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:31:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderate to sender?
In-Reply-To: <485BC4DA.6030609@bates.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806200931380375107cef5d@msapiro>

Karen R McArthur wrote:

>If a person is a member of a certain List (Staff, for example) and sends 
>a message which may need moderation - is there a way to send that SENDER 
>the moderator message instead of the administrator or moderator?  The 
>purpose of this that we want some of our constituencies to be able to 
>diagnose and fix their own email (if the message is too long, either 
>shorten it and resubmit or find another method of distribution).


I assume by 'moderation' you mean 'held for some reason' and that the
reason is not 'post from a moderated member' but some other hold
reason.

If you set respond_to_post_requests (Send mail to poster when their
posting is held for approval?) on the list's General Options page to
Yes, the poster will receive a notice that their post was held along
with the reason why and a link they can follow to cancel the post.

Ideally, the poster will receive this notice (your users may already be
receiving it, as it is the normal default) which may say something
like "Message body is too big: 50123 bytes with a limit of 40 KB" or
"Too many recipients to the message", and follow the link to cancel
the post and then post a shorter post or one with fewer recipients.

What happens in practice is most people do nothing, some fix the
problem and repost and a very few also cancel the original post.

Perhaps if you are in a situation where you can provide training to
your users, you can get them to fix their own problems. Good luck.
	

>However, if the person is not in the Staff list, the moderation should 
>happen as normal.


If default_nonmember_action is hold, that post will be held and noticed
as above. If it is accept, reject or discard, that's what will happen.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at python.org  Fri Jun 20 18:57:34 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:57:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Options for increasing throughput
In-Reply-To: <C480D579.1EF4C%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>
References: <C480D579.1EF4C%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <485BE17E.4020908@python.org>

Fletcher Cocquyt wrote:

> Hi, I am observing periods of qfiles/in backlogs in the 400-600 message
> count range that take 1-2hours to clear with the standard Mailman 2.1.9 +
> Spamassassin (the vette log shows these messages process in an avg of ~10
> seconds each)

Search the FAQ for performance.  The short URL for the web page is 
<http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 20 19:02:38 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:02:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] statics
In-Reply-To: <485BD2B8.4030204@evangelizacion.org.mx>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062010023804062c0ea43c@msapiro>

Jes?s Rivas wrote:

>anyone have a statics of how many message per hour send.
>a like to migrate to mailman but i need static for that


This depends much more on the outgoing MTA, your DNS configuration and
the bandwidth of your internet connection than on Mailman, but see
<http://wiki.list.org/x/NoA9>.

If your current software is handling the load and you're just
considering switching from some other MLM to Mailman, you should be OK.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at python.org  Fri Jun 20 19:27:00 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:27:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <485BA7C1.4050407@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com>	<4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>	<485A8FFE.8000608@python.org>	<485AB712.6030200@Media-Brokers.com>
	<485ACE4D.9060303@python.org> <485BA7C1.4050407@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <485BE864.8070308@python.org>

Charles Marcus wrote:

> You replied on list, so I will too...

Not really a very wise idea.  When I use my @python.org e-mail address 
(which I very rarely do), I speak from a position of a certain amount of 
authority on the subject.

If you want to try to have a civilized private conversation with us on the 
subject, we can probably find a way to do that.

But if you continue to aggressively and publicly challenge us on our own 
mailing list over a topics that were considered dead and buried years ago, 
the only likely outcomes are ones that you probably will not like.

>                                          though, most discussion lists - 
> for most people, using the most popular mail clients - operate much more 
> smoothly when Reply-to munging is implemented.

In your experience.  And how many decades have you been specializing in 
Internet e-mail systems administration?

How many of the screwed-up MUAs that we talk about have you actually 
encountered?  None?

So, it is out of ignorance that you say everyone should completely and 
totally ignore our advice?

Do you really want to use ignorance as your only defense?

> *My* point was simply pointing out that there *is a preference setting* 
> in the Mailman GUI for changing this, so if someone *wants* to change 
> it, they obviously *can* - so what difference does the *default* make?

The default makes a huge difference.  Ask Microsoft.

In my experience, over 90% never change the defaults on the software they 
install, whether you're talking about our mailing list management software 
or anything else.

If those defaults are not secure, then they are not secure -- again, go talk 
to Microsoft.

There are lots of admins out there who are capable of doing an "apt-get 
mailman" (or whatever), and not much beyond that.  Therefore, we have to be 
extra careful in terms of what is enabled or disabled by default.


There are battered womens shelters who use our software, and some of those 
battered women literally do have stalkers coming after them.  There are 
dissident groups in authoritarian countries that use our software, and some 
of those dissident groups really do have the secret police coming after them.

These kinds of things are always in the backs of our minds as we develop and 
maintain our software, and while we won't necessarily leave out certain 
features of our software just because it could be dangerous if 
mis-configured, we certainly do keep in mind the fact that we should 
probably ship those features disabled by default.


But as strongly as we hold our views that Reply-To: munging should not be 
done, we do acknowledge that there are certain limited circumstances where 
it might potentially be acceptable to do this kind of munging -- like when a 
company is running an internal discussion list and they want to force all 
their employees to keep all replies on the list.  And if those employees 
screw up and post sensitive private information on the list, then the only 
thing at risk is their jobs, and the jobs of any others who might have also 
been accidentally exposed.


So, we allow people like you to choose to configure your software 
differently.  Why can you not accept that we choose to configure the default 
for this option to be disabled?

Do you really want to take that fascist approach with us, where we hold an 
opinion but we allow you to speak, but you do not in return allow us the 
same courtesy?

> Sorry, but this isn't true for any mail client I've ever used... ever 
> heard of copy/cut/paste? Yeah, it requires some manual labor, rather 
> than clicking a button, but it can still be done.

Just because you have not encountered something does not mean it does not 
exist.  There are those of us who've actually been around for a while who 
have seen all sorts of seriously weird crap.

And your claim that you've never run into this weird crap is not proof that 
this weird crap does not and cannot exist.

> If someone is dumb enough to send information of such a nature without 
> actually *looking* at where it is going, then yeah, they might actually 
> be required to pay the consequences...

Then you be the one to try to explain that to their surviving family 
members.  Go back to the top of this response and re-read the part where I 
talked about who some of our customers are for this software.

And no, as much as I might like to, I'm not going to provide those family 
members with firearms, so that they can demonstrate to you the danger that 
their dear departed one faced.

> I did... I just believe that it is *ideally* correct, but 
> *realistically* incorrect,

I'm glad you feel privileged that you are the only person on the planet who 
should be allowed to define what reality is.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jun 20 19:33:43 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:33:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderate to sender?
In-Reply-To: <485BC4DA.6030609@bates.edu>
References: <485BC4DA.6030609@bates.edu>
Message-ID: <485BE9F7.3070806@shub-internet.org>

Karen R McArthur wrote:

> If a person is a member of a certain List (Staff, for example) and sends 
> a message which may need moderation - is there a way to send that SENDER 
> the moderator message instead of the administrator or moderator?  The 
> purpose of this that we want some of our constituencies to be able to 
> diagnose and fix their own email (if the message is too long, either 
> shorten it and resubmit or find another method of distribution).
> 
> However, if the person is not in the Staff list, the moderation should 
> happen as normal.

If that person is one of the designated moderators for the list, then they 
should get the moderation notice of their own message, and be able to take 
appropriate action.

Other than that, Mailman does not provide any moderation feature that would 
work as you have asked.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jun 20 19:36:08 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:36:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] statics
In-Reply-To: <485BD2B8.4030204@evangelizacion.org.mx>
References: <485BD2B8.4030204@evangelizacion.org.mx>
Message-ID: <485BEA88.2040200@shub-internet.org>

Jes?s Rivas wrote:
> anyone have a statics of how many message per hour send.
> a like to migrate to mailman but i need static for that

Search the Mailman FAQ for "statistics".  The shortcut URL for the FAQ is 
<http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Fri Jun 20 20:24:25 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:24:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <485BE864.8070308@python.org>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com>	<4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>	<485A8FFE.8000608@python.org>	<485AB712.6030200@Media-Brokers.com>	<485ACE4D.9060303@python.org>
	<485BA7C1.4050407@Media-Brokers.com> <485BE864.8070308@python.org>
Message-ID: <485BF5D9.7030502@Media-Brokers.com>

On 6/20/2008 1:27 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:
> Charles Marcus wrote:
> 
>> You replied on list, so I will too...

> Not really a very wise idea.

Really. Well, I had started to reply point by point until it became 
obvious that you are confused about something...

Read the following carefully...

********************************************************************

I am *not* arguing for changing the default - whatever gave you that 
idea?????

********************************************************************

In fact, I was pointing out to the person that *was* arguing for 
changing it that, since the devs had graciously provided the ability to 
*change* this setting, that the default *did not really matter*.

> When I use my @python.org e-mail address (which I very rarely do), I
> speak from a position of a certain amount of authority on the
> subject.

Are you seriously suggesting that the mere fact that you posted from an 
@python.org address is supposed to mean something to the average list 
participant here? I rarely even look at the original posters address, 
and even if I had noticed it, it wouldn't have meant anything to me 
other than you have an email address @python.org.

That said, if this really was a subtle way for you to intend to be 
speaking from a position of authority, then maybe you should read things 
a little more carefully before you threaten someone on a public list 
from such a position.

Sheesh.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From brad at python.org  Fri Jun 20 20:35:43 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:35:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <485BF5D9.7030502@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com>	<4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>	<485A8FFE.8000608@python.org>	<485AB712.6030200@Media-Brokers.com>	<485ACE4D.9060303@python.org>	<485BA7C1.4050407@Media-Brokers.com>
	<485BE864.8070308@python.org> <485BF5D9.7030502@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <485BF87F.7070600@python.org>

Charles Marcus wrote:

> I am *not* arguing for changing the default - whatever gave you that 
> idea?????

You may say that, but then virtually everything else you wrote was in 
strong, even violent, support of changing the default.

So, what am I supposed to believe -- the tiny little disclaimer, or the vast 
bulk of what you write?

> Are you seriously suggesting that the mere fact that you posted from an 
> @python.org address is supposed to mean something to the average list 
> participant here? I rarely even look at the original posters address, 
> and even if I had noticed it, it wouldn't have meant anything to me 
> other than you have an email address @python.org.

And you don't ever look at the signature block, either?

Do you drive on the roads like you drive your computer?  By not looking or 
paying any attention whatsoever to any of the signs or signals?  Does your 
insurance company know about this?

> That said, if this really was a subtle way for you to intend to be 
> speaking from a position of authority, then maybe you should read things 
> a little more carefully before you threaten someone on a public list 
> from such a position.

It wasn't a threat.  It was a statement of fact -- continued arguing with us 
on a subject considered long since dead is likely to have results that 
you're probably not going to like.

And that's the last I'm going to say on this subject.  Anything further on 
this subject will be action, and no words involved.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Fri Jun 20 20:47:18 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:47:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <485BF87F.7070600@python.org>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com>	<4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>	<485A8FFE.8000608@python.org>	<485AB712.6030200@Media-Brokers.com>	<485ACE4D.9060303@python.org>	<485BA7C1.4050407@Media-Brokers.com>
	<485BE864.8070308@python.org> <485BF5D9.7030502@Media-Brokers.com>
	<485BF87F.7070600@python.org>
Message-ID: <485BFB36.4020508@Media-Brokers.com>

On 6/20/2008, Brad Knowles (brad at python.org) wrote:
> It wasn't a threat.  It was a statement of fact -- continued arguing
> with us on a subject considered long since dead is likely to have
> results that you're probably not going to like.

I was talking about your cute little remark about giving someone a 
FIREARM so that they could 'come demonstrate to me the danger their 
deear departed one faced'.

If thats not a threat of VIOLENCE then I don't know what is.

That chip on your shoulder is getting pretty heavy, isn't it?

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From adsarebad at gmail.com  Fri Jun 20 21:09:06 2008
From: adsarebad at gmail.com (adsarebad at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:09:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>
	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>
	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com> <4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <485C0052.3030502@gmail.com>

adsarebad at gmail.com wrote:
> .....
>
> Also it seems clicking reply on a msg here does a off list reply. So 
> all my previous reply`s were done off list.
>
I just wanted to say I did not mean to start a header war here.  What I 
meant was I should have looked more closely where my reply was going and 
fixed it.  I had not really even thought about the question of changing 
headers until now as my only lists are announcement only, so the reply 
should always go back to the sender.  Also a quick question to the side 
the believes we should not do header mangling.  After reading the FAQ 
and the links it pointed to, I noticed the counter reply talked about 
RFC 822.  If that document defines email standards then isn't that the 
correct way to do it?

Anyway sorry about starting this whole thing.


From brad at python.org  Fri Jun 20 21:55:20 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:55:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <485BFB36.4020508@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com>	<4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com>	<485A8FFE.8000608@python.org>	<485AB712.6030200@Media-Brokers.com>	<485ACE4D.9060303@python.org>	<485BA7C1.4050407@Media-Brokers.com>	<485BE864.8070308@python.org>
	<485BF5D9.7030502@Media-Brokers.com>	<485BF87F.7070600@python.org>
	<485BFB36.4020508@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <485C0B28.4010504@python.org>

Charles Marcus wrote:

> I was talking about your cute little remark about giving someone a 
> FIREARM so that they could 'come demonstrate to me the danger their 
> deear departed one faced'.

I said I wouldn't do it.  So there's no threat there.

> That chip on your shoulder is getting pretty heavy, isn't it?

Ad hominem attacks are not going to get you anywhere, at least not anywhere 
you like.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From gilmore.126 at osu.edu  Fri Jun 20 22:02:56 2008
From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:02:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin and email
Message-ID: <00a801c8d310$a1d41f30$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>

I have screwed up my mailman somehow that when I sent an email to a
individual account on the server (spot) the mail is going to me (gilmore.126
instead of the spot account.   Is it possible there is some mailman config
that you can change an address that this could have happened.  I know I was
fooling around with the server, and was wonderng if it is possible that I
messaed up the site admin address.   Does anyone know where that setting is?

Mindy

Melinda Gilmore
Systems Engineer
The Ohio State University
Enterprise Messaging/OIT
614-292-4953


From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Fri Jun 20 22:34:24 2008
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:34:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing questions (feature, or bug?)
In-Reply-To: <20080620122307.A40E417554@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
References: <vancleef@lostwells.net>
	<20080620122307.A40E417554@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <87tzfnsv5b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Barry Finkel writes:
 > Hank van Cleef <vancleef at lostwells.net> wrote, in part,

 > It seems to me that 
 > 
 >      stat=Service unavailable
 > 
 > means that the inbound mailer is not available at the moment.

The problem that we're facing is that there are a few people who don't
think[1] that the RFCs apply to them.  Presumably due to the stress
levels at large ISPs, this small fraction of all admins seems to be
most concentrated at said large ISPs. :-(


Footnotes: 
[1]  Optionally insert "and thus conclude that" here.


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 20 22:21:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:21:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin and email
In-Reply-To: <00a801c8d310$a1d41f30$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062013215506094fe23218@msapiro>

Melinda Gilmore wrote:

>I have screwed up my mailman somehow that when I sent an email to a
>individual account on the server (spot) the mail is going to me (gilmore.126
>instead of the spot account.   Is it possible there is some mailman config
>that you can change an address that this could have happened.  I know I was
>fooling around with the server, and was wonderng if it is possible that I
>messaed up the site admin address.   Does anyone know where that setting is?


I think we may need more information. I understand you to be saying
that if you send mail to spot at whatever.example.com that it is
delivered to gilmore.126 at whatever.example.com.

Is Mailman involved? Are there any Mailman headers in the message you
receive?

In any case, here are some possibilities.

spot's home directory contains a .forward file with
"gilmore.126 at whatever.example.com" (or just "gilmore.126") in it.

There is an alias in the MTA's aliases of the form

spot: gilmore.126

You created a Mailman list named spot with you as a member.

You munged an existing list alias of the form

list:  "|/path/to/mail/mailman post list"

to be something like

spot:  "|/path/to/mail/mailman post list"

instead.

What are the full headers (including all Received: headers) of the
message you receive?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jlieber at goengineer.com  Sat Jun 21 01:26:08 2008
From: jlieber at goengineer.com (John Lieber)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:26:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP
Message-ID: <E7B2FA0BBB4B5D41928ECC77AEFEBF9002E0D03D@mail-33ps.atlarge.net>

I recently moved to a new server.  I did a new install, setup everything
and it's all working great.  I went to import my 'old' member list via
the web interface, only I forgot to select the radio button to NOT
notify the members of their subscription.  How do I kill the mail that
is trying to be sent out?  Right now I shutdown postfix/mailman and even
the network adapter.

 

I really don't want to deal with the 'hundreds' of emails from the
members asking if they have been subscribed to 'another' list...

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

John


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 21 02:01:49 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:01:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP
In-Reply-To: <E7B2FA0BBB4B5D41928ECC77AEFEBF9002E0D03D@mail-33ps.atlarge.net>
Message-ID: <PC187020080620170149021885ccc24b@msapiro>

John Lieber wrote:

>I recently moved to a new server.  I did a new install, setup everything
>and it's all working great.  I went to import my 'old' member list via
>the web interface, only I forgot to select the radio button to NOT
>notify the members of their subscription.  How do I kill the mail that
>is trying to be sent out?  Right now I shutdown postfix/mailman and even
>the network adapter.


There are better ways to move lists such as just moving the
lists/listname/config.pck files.

But, to your immediate plea, I suspect all the mail is already in
Postfix. Use 'mailq' to list that mail and 'postsuper' to remove the
ones you don't want.

If there are any messages left in Mailman, they will be in
qfiles/virgin/ and/or qfiles/out/. You can use bin/show_qfiles (e.g.
bin/show_qfiles qfiles/virgin/*) to look at the entries and just
remove those you don't want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From honneus at cisco.com  Sat Jun 21 03:08:56 2008
From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus))
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:08:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Size limit on messages sent to maillist
Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8AA0544@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>

Hi,
 
One of our list subscribers received the following message:
Your mail to 'my-list' with the subject

RE: [my-list] FW: registering application

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

Message body is too big: 157187 bytes with a limit of 40 KB

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.

Is there a way to configure the mailing list so that we can set our own
limits on message size and/or attachment size?  I would like to set the
limit to 3MB.

Thanks!

Bill


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 21 03:32:36 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:32:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Size limit on messages sent to maillist
In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8AA0544@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020080620183236026506ed4d6d@msapiro>

Bill Honneus wrote:
>
>Is there a way to configure the mailing list so that we can set our own
>limits on message size and/or attachment size?  I would like to set the
>limit to 3MB.


General Options -> max_message_size

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Sat Jun 21 13:42:17 2008
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:42:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipients missing on list post
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806191716020203a4f459cd@msapiro>
References: <20080619140129.GG15226@mail.incertum.net>
	<PC1870200806191716020203a4f459cd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080621114217.GK15226@mail.incertum.net>

* Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Stefan F?rster wrote:
>> 
>> Now, 22+26+19+158 equals 225 and not 226 - no rejected mails, no
>> NOQUEUE entries. Either Postfix or Mailman is lying. How can I find
>> out which one it is, aside from running ngrep/tcpdump?
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if this is better, but if your Python is 2.4 or later, see
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9> for a patch that can be applied to
> Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to produce copious debugging output
> from Python's smtplib to Mailman's error log

I put thos in place, thank you. Furthermore, I've written a small
script to parse Mailman and Postfix logs once a day - the next time a
recipient is omitted I will be notified. Now I have to wait...

>> Which additional configuration data do I have to provide to aid in
>> remote debugging this?
> 
> 
> Just for curiosity, try the following:
> 
> bin/list_members listname >file1
> sort -f file1 >file2
> sort -f -u file1 >file3
> diff file2 file3

No output.

> You could also patch Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to add
> 
>     syslog.write('smtp', 'recips this chunk = %d', len(recips))

Listing the number of recipients that the SMTP handler gets is a good
idea, I've added that one, too.

I will report my findings the next time I run into this issue.


Ciao
Stefan
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Sat Jun 21 19:23:49 2008
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:23:49 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing questions (feature, or bug?)
In-Reply-To: <20080620122307.A40E417554@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <200806211723.m5LHNnlZ027547@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Barry Finkel has said:
> 
> Hank van Cleef <vancleef at lostwells.net> wrote, in part,
> 
> >Basically, mail to verizon.net addresses failed and bounced for a 24
> >hour period on the 12th.  Service appeared to have been restored on
> >the 13th.  Again, yesterday (the 18th), Verizon quit receiving mail
> >again.  The log message being shown by sendmail is of the the form:
> >
> >Jun 19 10:49:00 julie sendmail[16973]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
> >m5JGmxNk016971: to=<customer at verizon.net>,
> >ctladdr=<vancleef at julie.lostwells.net> (101/10), delay=00:00:00,
> >xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=121428, relay=relay.verizon.net.
> >[206.46.232.11], dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable
> >
> >For the four days June 13-17, mail went verizon.net normally,
> >dsn-2.0.0, stat=Sent 
> >
> >Two Verizon users have contacted me and told me that they had received
> >no mail from our list since the 11th; that they had contacted Verizon
> >support, and had been told that Verizon was not blocking or dumping
> >our list mails.  
> 
> It seems to me that 
> 
>      stat=Service unavailable
> 
> means that the inbound mailer is not available at the moment.
> This should result in a 400-level SMTP retryable reject, not a
> 500-level hard reject.  The statement
> 
>      "Verizon was not blocking or dumping our list mails"
> 
> is technically a correct statement; Verizon is not accepting mail.
> 
> Another thought comes to mind - when this happens, is Verizon rejecting
> all mail, or is that mailer selectively not accepting mail?  If
> Verizon is selectively rejecting mail, then I would expect a different
> message than
> 
>      dsn=5.0.0 stat=Service unavailable.
> 
Since I'm the original poster, I should perhaps clarify a few things.
My real question, which Mark answered (thank you Mark) was about an
unwanted side effect from the Mailman bounce processor.  

When I made my original post, I decided to summarize my problems with
verizon.net, and develop my rationale for resetting the bounce
processing parameters as a diagnostic tool.  Given the recent thread
on problems with Hotmail, and other discussions about ISP's
spam-blocking Mailman mail list mails over time, I felt that including
some of the details could be informative to the larger audience of
Mailman-users readers.

First off, list mail deliveries to verizon.net (and yahoo.com) addresses
have always been slow.  My daily log-reading has led me to expect a
great deal of mail requeuing from those two sites on a daily basis,
and sporadic random bounces.  So I'm not "psyched up" to pay a lot of
attention to increases in "problem" activity from those two sites.

Bounces with dsn=5.0.0 from verizon aren't news to me. I felt that the
complete blackout on the 12th was very suspicious, but when service
resumed on the 13th, none of the affected verizon.net list members had
hit the bounce trap, so I did not have any of the bounce messages
being sent back to my site.

I had several offlist communications with one verizon.net subscriber
who did not receive mail after June 11.  I sent him the log messages I
had from the 12th (bounces) and the 13th (normal delivery) and told
him to work the problem with Verizon from his end.  His report back to
me was that Verizon had told him they were not purposely blocking our
list mail nor dumping it after receiving it.  

When Verizon reinstated the block on the 18th, an offlist mail to this
user bounced, which was the first hard evidence I had that we were
dealing with a purposeful and specific blacklist action by Verizon.  I
forwarded the bounce message to this user through another (unblocked)
IP to the user and told him to work the problem from his end with the
hard evidence I'd furnished.  

I reset the bounce score so that all of the active verizon.net would
bounce-disable almost immediately, which they did.  I forwarded
several of the bounce messages to other verizon.net users, and am
aware that several of them used them in dealing with the Verizon
administrators.  

I did go to the web site listed in the bounce messages and fill out
the form with my site information.  And I did get a response from
Verizon that they would remove the block.  The block was removed
around noon on the 20th, and for the moment, mail is now going to the
verizon.net listers and being delivered.  

I'm documenting this to the Mailman-users list in hopes that it is
useful and informative information for other administrators
encountering similar problems with user ISP's.  I've been through this
drill before with other ISP's.  Misinformation seems to be a standard
problem in communications between ISP's and their users, and giving
the users the log information from the sending site clears the air in
a hurry.  I make it clear to the affected users that if reliable mail
service cannot be restored, they will have to move to a site that will
accept list e-mail, but go no further than that.  

As Mark has mentioned, the dsn=5.0.0 is legitimate, but it certainly
is not very informative in a case like this.  

Hank


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Fri Jun 20 23:04:32 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:04:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Muti-Mailman install
In-Reply-To: <485C0052.3030502@gmail.com>
References: <4858C199.6000500@gmail.com>	<16288-61549@sneakemail.com>	<48595B2B.1040607@gmail.com>	<13061-77666@sneakemail.com>
	<4859FEEE.7090607@gmail.com> <485C0052.3030502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <485C1B60.6010407@Media-Brokers.com>

On 6/20/2008 3:09 PM, adsarebad at gmail.com wrote:
> I just wanted to say I did not mean to start a header war here.

And I apologize for for letting my type A personality rear its ugly head.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From javiabd at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 23 05:00:57 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:00:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8AA0544@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <170466.17845.qm@web63706.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hi
?
Am getting the following error with only 30 memebers in the list. whenever memebers within the list are sending messages, its being sent to moderator to approve for following reason
?
"Too many recipients to the message"
?
List is set to be non moderated.
?
thaks in advance.
?
Abdul Javid



      

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 23 05:19:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:19:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
In-Reply-To: <170466.17845.qm@web63706.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806222019320656426264b0@msapiro>

Abdul Javid wrote:
>
>Am getting the following error with only 30 memebers in the list. whenever
>memebers within the list are sending messages, its being sent to moderator
>to approve for following reason
>
>"Too many recipients to the message"


Please do not hijack existing threads by replying to a previous post to
start an unrelated topic. Even though you change the subject, the post
is still threaded to the prior post in the archive.

The "Too many recipients to the message" hold has nothing to do with
the number of list members. It occurs because the total number of
addresses in the To: and Cc: headers of the post equals or exceeds
Privacy options...->Recipient filters->max_num_recipients
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From javiabd at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 23 06:12:43 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:12:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List set to moderated being moderated
Message-ID: <311724.87554.qm@web63708.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hi 
?
Am having issue with moderation, the list is non moderated
Privacy options ---> sender filters--->
?





By default, should new list member postings be moderated? 
(Details for default_member_moderation)




No
Yes
?
but whenver members send messages, it still goes to moderator
?
any other setting that am missing?? 
?
Thanks in advance


      

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 23 06:23:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:23:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List set to moderated being moderated
In-Reply-To: <311724.87554.qm@web63708.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806222123480375426263a7@msapiro>

Abdul Javid wrote:
>?
>Am having issue with moderation, the list is non moderated
[...]
>?
>but whenver members send messages, it still goes to moderator


For what reason? If the reason is "post by moderated member", check
that individual member's 'mod' flag in the admin Membership Management
section. If you have moderated members and want to unmoderate all of
them, you can do this easily under "Additional Member Tasks" in the
Membership Management section.

If the reason is something else, what is it?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From javiabd at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 23 14:46:45 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:46:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List set to moderated being moderated
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806222123480375426263a7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <878355.63726.qm@web63705.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Thanks
?
Reason is "Post by moderated member"
?
Individual bit for all members is cleared off ( not to be moderated )
?
am puzzled with this.
?
other lists are working fine.
?
thanks

--- On Sun, 6/22/08, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] List set to moderated being moderated
To: javid at isns.org, mailman-users at python.org
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 11:23 PM

Abdul Javid wrote:
>?
>Am having issue with moderation, the list is non moderated
[...]
>?
>but whenver members send messages, it still goes to moderator


For what reason? If the reason is "post by moderated member", check
that individual member's 'mod' flag in the admin Membership
Management
section. If you have moderated members and want to unmoderate all of
them, you can do this easily under "Additional Member Tasks" in the
Membership Management section.

If the reason is something else, what is it?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


      

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 23 16:50:38 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:50:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List set to moderated being moderated
In-Reply-To: <878355.63726.qm@web63705.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020080623075038056256135a18@msapiro>

Abdul Javid wrote:
>
>Reason is "Post by moderated member"
>
>Individual bit for all members is cleared off ( not to be moderated )


Actually, even though I suggested it, "Post by moderated member" is not
a reason. Possible reasons are "Post to moderated list" and "Posting
to a moderated newsgroup". If the reason is "Post to moderated list",
I think it must be because the poster's 'mod' flag is set.

If the reason is "Posting to a moderated newsgroup", check the web
admin setting of Mail<->News gateways->news_moderation. This should be
None unless the list is actually a gateway to a news group that the
list serves as 'moderator' for.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 23 21:48:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:48:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.11rc1 has been released
Message-ID: <485FFE1F.9090407@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am happy to announce the release of the second release candidate for
Mailman 2.1.11.

Mailman 2.1.11 is a cleanup of a few problems found since the release of
Mailman 2.1.10. It fixes the issue of shunted email subscribe requests
and a few minor issues. It updates the contrib/mmdsr script for some
2.1.10 and 2.1.11 log and error messages, and it adds a new cron to cull
and optionally archive old entries in the 'bad' and 'shunt' queues. See
the release notes at
<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=103&release_id=605074>
for details.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, including download links, please see:

http://www.list.org
http://mailman.sf.net
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman

At this point I anticipate releasing 2.1.11 final on June 30.  I am
currently waiting for some updates to the Brazilian Portuguese (pt-BR)
translation.  At this point, I expect that to be the only change from
2.1.11rc2 to 2.1.11 final.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 23 21:58:49 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:58:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.11rc2 has been released
In-Reply-To: <485FFE1F.9090407@msapiro.net>
References: <485FFE1F.9090407@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <48600079.1000106@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Resending with the correct subject (2.1.11rc2, not 2.1.11rc1). Sorry for
any confusion.

Mark Sapiro wrote:
| I am happy to announce the release of the second release candidate for
| Mailman 2.1.11.
|
| Mailman 2.1.11 is a cleanup of a few problems found since the release of
| Mailman 2.1.10. It fixes the issue of shunted email subscribe requests
| and a few minor issues. It updates the contrib/mmdsr script for some
| 2.1.10 and 2.1.11 log and error messages, and it adds a new cron to cull
| and optionally archive old entries in the 'bad' and 'shunt' queues. See
| the release notes at
|
<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=103&release_id=605074>

|
| for details.
|
| Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
| e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
| SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.
|
| For more information, including download links, please see:
|
| http://www.list.org
| http://mailman.sf.net
| http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
|
| At this point I anticipate releasing 2.1.11 final on June 30.  I am
| currently waiting for some updates to the Brazilian Portuguese (pt-BR)
| translation.  At this point, I expect that to be the only change from
| 2.1.11rc2 to 2.1.11 final.
|

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From fcocquyt at stanford.edu  Tue Jun 24 02:55:54 2008
From: fcocquyt at stanford.edu (Fletcher Cocquyt)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:55:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Options for increasing throughput
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008062009012104689ca4aea9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C485BE5A.1F2FF%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>

Mike, many thanks for your (as always) very helpful response - I added the 1
liner to mm_cfg.py to increase the threads to 16.
Now I am observing (via memory trend graphs) an acceleration of what looks
like a memory leak - maybe from python - currently at 2.4

I am compiling the latest 2.5.2 to see if that helps - for now the
workaround is to restart mailman occasionally.

(and yes the spamassassin checks are the source of the 4-10 second delay -
now those happen in parallel x16 - so no spikes in the backlog...)

Thanks again


On 6/20/08 9:01 AM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Fletcher Cocquyt wrote:
> 
>> Hi, I am observing periods of qfiles/in backlogs in the 400-600 message
>> count range that take 1-2hours to clear with the standard Mailman 2.1.9 +
>> Spamassassin (the vette log shows these messages process in an avg of ~10
>> seconds each)
> 
> 
> Is Spamassassin invoked from Mailman or from the MTA before Mailman? If
> this plain Mailman, 10 seconds is a hugely long time to process a
> single post through IncomingRunner.
> 
> If you have some Spamassassin interface like
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=640518&group_id=103&
> atid=300103>
> that calls spamd from a Mailman handler, you might consider moving
> Spamassassin ahead of Mailman and using something like
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=840426&group_id=103&
> atid=300103>
> or just header_filter_rules instead.
> 
> 
>> Is there an easy way to parallelize what looks like a single serialized
>> Mailman queue?
>> I see some posts re: multi-slice ? but nothing definitive
> 
> 
> See the section of Defaults.py headed with
> 
> #####
> # Qrunner defaults
> #####
> 
> In order to run multiple, parallel IncomingRunner processes, you can
> either copy the entire QRUNNERS definition from Defaults.py to
> mm_cfg.py
> and change
> 
>     ('IncomingRunner', 1), # posts from the outside world
> 
> to
> 
>     ('IncomingRunner', 4), # posts from the outside world
> 
> 
> which says run 4 IncomingRunner processes, or you can just add
> something like
> 
> QRUNNERS[QRUNNERS.index(('IncomingRunner',1))] = ('IncomingRunner',4)
> 
> to mm_cfg.py. You can use any power of two for the number.
> 
> 
>> I would also like the option of working this into an overall loadbalancing
>> scheme where I have multiple smtp nodes behind an F5 loadbalancer and the
>> nodes share an NFS backend...
> 
> 
> The following search will return some information.
> 
> <http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman++%22lo
> ad+balancing%22>

-- 
Fletcher Cocquyt
Senior Systems Administrator
Information Resources and Technology (IRT)
Stanford University School of Medicine

Email: fcocquyt at stanford.edu
Phone: (650) 724-7485



From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jun 24 07:44:52 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 00:44:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Options for increasing throughput
In-Reply-To: <C485BE5A.1F2FF%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>
References: <C485BE5A.1F2FF%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240804c48639f2e600@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/23/08, Fletcher Cocquyt wrote:

>  (and yes the spamassassin checks are the source of the 4-10 second delay -
>  now those happen in parallel x16 - so no spikes in the backlog...)

Search the FAQ for "performance".  Do all such spam/virus/DNS/etc... 
checking up front, and run a second copy of your MTA with all these 
checks disabled.  Have Mailman deliver to the second copy of the MTA, 
because you will have already done all this stuff on input.

There's no sense running the same message through SpamAssassin (or 
whatever) thousands of times, if you can do it once on input and then 
never again.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From cyndi at tikvah.com  Tue Jun 24 19:43:24 2008
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:43:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription
Message-ID: <200806241743.m5OHhOJa002626@a.mail.sonic.net>

Please let me know if I should post this elsewhere too.

The Mass Subscribe feature has two settings: on and off.  Although Mailman
was designed for users to self-install, and presumably they can trust
themselves not to abuse it, the truth is that an awful lot of Mailman list
owners do not have access to the full software, just the web interface.

My use of Mailman is through my ISP, but there are other users who use
software installed by a business group, university, or other entity.  My
ISP has chosen to turn off Mass Subscribe.  Only the invite feature is
left.

I completely understand why they have done this and I have to concur.  They
have thousands of users and hundreds of mailing lists.  The potential for
abuse is great.  They did a mass subscribe for me when I transfered my
lists from another provider, but they're not going to do one or two
subscribers here, three or four there, and so on.

It's a huge pain in the neck for users not to be able to add subscribers
directly.  For my larger lists, I prefer subscribers to do it themselves,
but I have the occasional person who just can't manage it.  But I also run
smaller lists, including several for a nonprofit, and it's just
embararssing that I can't add the board members and others who ask me to.

My request is for an intermediate step that the provider can set.
Something like subscribing one name at a time (so it's too much of a pain
for a spammer to put in a thousand names) or up to 10 a day, or something
that will make a large provider feel more comfortable but not completely
remove the feature from the users.

Thanks,
Cyndi
@ sonic.net


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 24 20:51:02 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:51:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription
In-Reply-To: <200806241743.m5OHhOJa002626@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC187020080624115102071872307290@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>Please let me know if I should post this elsewhere too.
>
>The Mass Subscribe feature has two settings: on and off.


No it doesn't.


>My
>ISP has chosen to turn off Mass Subscribe.  Only the invite feature is
>left.


This is not a setting. It is a code modification done somewhere
downstream of the Mailman project.


>My request is for an intermediate step that the provider can set.
>Something like subscribing one name at a time (so it's too much of a pain
>for a spammer to put in a thousand names) or up to 10 a day, or something
>that will make a large provider feel more comfortable but not completely
>remove the feature from the users.


Turning off mass subscribe and leaving only mass invite is a
modification not done by us. This request might better be directed to
whoever made this modification.

We fully sympathize with the difficulty and frustration of dealing with
users who can't manage to successfully accept an invitation, and the
problem of explaining to the VIP that the software doesn't allow this.

I can see that actual site settings something like

MAXIMUM_LIST_OWNER_SUBSCRIBES = 10
LIST_OWNER_SUBSCRIBE_WINDOW = days(7)

to allow at most 10 subscribes in any 7 day period, might be an
alternative that ISPs would use, but OTOH, I think that an ISP that
choses to disable mass subscribe has likely done this in response to
large ISP/email services that demand that lists be fully confirmed
opt-in in order to be whitelisted, so they may not be willing to allow
even that.

Before I invest any effort in implementing such an option, I'd be
interested in an opinion from your ISP as to whether they would use it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Tue Jun 24 21:24:48 2008
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:24:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription
In-Reply-To: <PC187020080624115102071872307290@msapiro> (message from Mark
	Sapiro on Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:51:02 -0700)
References: <PC187020080624115102071872307290@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806241924.m5OJOmBE027654@b.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:51:02 -0700
   From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

   I can see that actual site settings something like

   MAXIMUM_LIST_OWNER_SUBSCRIBES = 10
   LIST_OWNER_SUBSCRIBE_WINDOW = days(7)

   to allow at most 10 subscribes in any 7 day period, might be an
   alternative that ISPs would use, but OTOH, I think that an ISP that
   choses to disable mass subscribe has likely done this in response to
   large ISP/email services that demand that lists be fully confirmed
   opt-in in order to be whitelisted, so they may not be willing to allow
   even that.

   Before I invest any effort in implementing such an option, I'd be
   interested in an opinion from your ISP as to whether they would use it.

Thank you, Mark.  Something like this would be perfect.  I just posted to
my ISP's usenet group where they have discussions like this.  I will let
you know what they say.

Cyndi



From brad at python.org  Tue Jun 24 21:29:30 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:29:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription
In-Reply-To: <200806241743.m5OHhOJa002626@a.mail.sonic.net>
References: <200806241743.m5OHhOJa002626@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <48614B1A.1030200@python.org>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

> Please let me know if I should post this elsewhere too.

This is kind of an edge case.  You're getting close to territory that would 
probably be better handled over on the mailman-developers list, although 
you're not really discussing any particular specific code changes that 
you've come up with.

If nothing else, I know a lot of Mailman developers are on that list 
exclusively, and there are only a few developers on this list.


I don't see a problem with having this discussion continue on the 
mailman-users list for now (at least you'll get the opportunity for some 
feedback from other mailman list/site admins who are not on the 
mailman-developers list), but if you get deeper into the development issues 
then you will probably want to consider moving the discussion to the other list.

I'll leave that decision to you, as to whether or not you want to focus on 
involving more Mailman developers in the discussion, or if you want to focus 
on involving more list/site admins.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From zipfel at greenacrestechnology.com  Tue Jun 24 21:38:44 2008
From: zipfel at greenacrestechnology.com (Krystal Zipfel)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:38:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription
In-Reply-To: <200806241743.m5OHhOJa002626@a.mail.sonic.net>
References: <200806241743.m5OHhOJa002626@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <48614D44.3030207@greenacrestechnology.com>

(figures, apparently my mail program is one of those *broken* ones so 
apologies, this originally sent off list)

Hello Cyndi,

I do see where you are coming from, but abuse issues can go the opposite 
direction from your description, and usually does.

The host I work for does NOT turn off mass subscription capability (but 
also only provides the web interface). With that said, our abuse policy 
states that all users must be double-opt in. Whether this is done via 
Mailman or they're own script and database is up to the user, but they 
had better be able to provide proof that the subscriber was double-opt in.

The reason for this is simple. Most hosts providing Mailman (or similar 
package) do so on shared servers (our servers have up to 2000 lists per 
server). If *for any reason what-so-ever* a user's list causes an ISP to 
take notice, the ISP will most likely take notice by blocking that 
shared server affecting all 1999 other lists on that server. Most ISP's 
will then specifically request proof that the message was requested and 
not unsolicited, and the best (and yes, legal way) to prove that is if 
you have proof that the user was opted into the list TWICE.

In our eyes, the problem has nothing to do with some spammer mass 
subscribing users (we have NEVER had this problem, actually... unless 
the admin gets they're password compromised). It has everything to do 
with covering our customers butts. :-)

Just offering the other side of the issue.

Krystal

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
> Please let me know if I should post this elsewhere too.
>
> The Mass Subscribe feature has two settings: on and off.  Although Mailman
> was designed for users to self-install, and presumably they can trust
> themselves not to abuse it, the truth is that an awful lot of Mailman list
> owners do not have access to the full software, just the web interface.
>
> My use of Mailman is through my ISP, but there are other users who use
> software installed by a business group, university, or other entity.  My
> ISP has chosen to turn off Mass Subscribe.  Only the invite feature is
> left.
>
> I completely understand why they have done this and I have to concur.  They
> have thousands of users and hundreds of mailing lists.  The potential for
> abuse is great.  They did a mass subscribe for me when I transfered my
> lists from another provider, but they're not going to do one or two
> subscribers here, three or four there, and so on.
>
> It's a huge pain in the neck for users not to be able to add subscribers
> directly.  For my larger lists, I prefer subscribers to do it themselves,
> but I have the occasional person who just can't manage it.  But I also run
> smaller lists, including several for a nonprofit, and it's just
> embararssing that I can't add the board members and others who ask me to.
>
> My request is for an intermediate step that the provider can set.
> Something like subscribing one name at a time (so it's too much of a pain
> for a spammer to put in a thousand names) or up to 10 a day, or something
> that will make a large provider feel more comfortable but not completely
> remove the feature from the users.
>
> Thanks,
> Cyndi
> @ sonic.net
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/zipfel%40greenacrestechnology.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>   


From MHeer at lbl.gov  Tue Jun 24 21:42:27 2008
From: MHeer at lbl.gov (Mark Heer)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:42:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail bouncing to devel machine
Message-ID: <f231c9fe13b90.4860ebb3@lbl.gov>

Hello,

I am having trouble with mailman bounced messages attempting to send to the wrong machine.

Initially I set up mailman in a test environment - hostname sbuild6 has the web interface and mxtest machine was the meil exchanger all went well with testing.  We have moved the installation to production machines (mx1 and mx2 are the mail exchangers and a virtual host named mailman handles the web interface.  Things seem to be working ok except when I look at the mailq I see hundreds of attempts to send to mailman at sbuild6 ... The couple of test lists I have are working
but how can I fix the mailq issue?  Here is an example  from the mailq from the prod mail exchangers.

177FC194C      2130 Sun Jun 22 19:05:16  mailman-bounces at nersc.gov
(delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sbuild6.nersc.gov[128.55.16.186]: Co nnection timed out)
                                         mailman-owner at sbuild6.nersc.gov

11F6C1C04      2130 Sun Jun 22 19:35:13  mailman-bounces at nersc.gov
(delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sbuild6.nersc.gov[128.55.16.186]: Co nnection timed out)

The aliases file has no reference to mailman at sbuild6 and the config file is as follows:

# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
MTA = 'Postfix'
#POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/postfix/sbin/postalias'
#POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/postfix/sbin/postmap'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/images/'
DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE = 10000           # KB
DEFAULT_GENERIC_NONMEMBER_ACTION = 3
DEFAULT_LIST_ADVERTISED = No
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = No
USER_FRIENDLY_PASSWORDS = No
DEFAULT_SEND_WELCOME_MSG = No
DEFAULT_SEND_GOODBYE_MSG = Yes
DEFAULT_ADMIN_IMMED_NOTIFY = Yes
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = Off
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER = """_______________________________________________
%(real_name)s mailing list
%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
"""
DEFAULT_DIGEST_FOOTER = DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER
add_virtualhost('mailman.nersc.gov','mx2.nersc.gov')
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mx2.nersc.gov'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'mailman.nersc.gov'
DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 3
ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2
SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 3


Thank You,

Mark


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Jun 24 22:34:17 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:34:17 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription
In-Reply-To: <48614B1A.1030200@python.org>
References: <200806241743.m5OHhOJa002626@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<48614B1A.1030200@python.org>
Message-ID: <87tzfik1x2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > I don't see a problem with having this discussion continue on the 
 > mailman-users list for now (at least you'll get the opportunity for some 
 > feedback from other mailman list/site admins who are not on the 
 > mailman-developers list),

I think the very "political" nature of this proposal means it should
be on Mailman-Users.  Mailman developers tend to have shell (if not
root) on their hosts.  Mailman-Users is a better place to get people
to discuss this with their ISPs.  Note that people whose ISPs permit
mass-subscribe might want to get their opinions about this, too.  Such
an option might make a lot of ISPs happier with Mailman, even if those
like Cyndi's decide to continue draconian policies.  But we need to
find out what they want/find acceptable!




From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 24 22:57:05 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:57:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail bouncing to devel machine
In-Reply-To: <f231c9fe13b90.4860ebb3@lbl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062413570509537230737e@msapiro>

Mark Heer wrote:
>
>I am having trouble with mailman bounced messages attempting to send to the wrong machine.
>
>Initially I set up mailman in a test environment - hostname sbuild6 has the web interface and mxtest machine was the meil exchanger all went well with testing.  We have moved the installation to production machines (mx1 and mx2 are the mail exchangers and a virtual host named mailman handles the web interface.  Things seem to be working ok except when I look at the mailq I see hundreds of attempts to send to mailman at sbuild6 ... The couple of test lists I have are working
>but how can I fix the mailq issue?  Here is an example  from the mailq from the prod mail exchangers.
>
>177FC194C      2130 Sun Jun 22 19:05:16  mailman-bounces at nersc.gov
>(delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sbuild6.nersc.gov[128.55.16.186]: Co nnection timed out)
>                                         mailman-owner at sbuild6.nersc.gov


It appears that a message with envelope from mailman-bounces at nersc.gov
is being sent to mailman-owner at sbuild6.nersc.gov.

Check the host_name attribute of the mailman list.


[...]
>add_virtualhost('mailman.nersc.gov','mx2.nersc.gov')
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mx2.nersc.gov'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'mailman.nersc.gov'


This doesn't seem right. First, if these aren't the DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
and DEFAULT_URL_HOST values from Defaults.py, it is good to put

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()

ahead of the first add_virtualhost in mm_cfg.py to remove the
irrelevant entry from Defaults.py, but that isn't what I'm focusing on.

Do you really want DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and the email host value in the
add_virtualhost to be 'mx2.nersc.gov'. What you want there is the
domain that list mail should be addressed to, not the MX for that
domain.

Perhaps you do understand this and what you have is correct, but it is
curious.

In any case, I suspect at least some of your lists have the wrong
host_name and maybe there are web_page_url issues too. See
<http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fil at rezo.net  Tue Jun 24 23:01:24 2008
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:01:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription
In-Reply-To: <48614D44.3030207@greenacrestechnology.com>
References: <200806241743.m5OHhOJa002626@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<48614D44.3030207@greenacrestechnology.com>
Message-ID: <bfc33ad70806241401g546be73vb335e4d445acf683@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Krystal,

I'd be interested to know what you call "double opt-in". Is it a web
subscription + email reply with the cookie, or double-that (and in
that case, what is the scenario).

FWIW I don't think the option Cindy proposes passes Occam's razor. For
the moment it looks like lots of complexity for a need that is not
well defined and certainly not generic. If the ISP has deliberately
crippled Mailman's interface up to the point it's not usable any more,
they should probably try and come up with a solution; or at least try
to explain (to the devs or the users) why and how.

-- Fil

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 24 23:24:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:24:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription
In-Reply-To: <bfc33ad70806241401g546be73vb335e4d445acf683@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806241424230281d2737df0@msapiro>

Fil wrote:
>
>I'd be interested to know what you call "double opt-in". Is it a web
>subscription + email reply with the cookie, or double-that (and in
>that case, what is the scenario).


My understanding of this is that "double opt-in" and what I call
"confirmed opt-in" are the same thing and that they mean

1. User requests to be on the list via a web form, email, etc. This is
the first opt-in. Note that strictly speaking, this probably precludes
unsolicited invitations, although an invitation in response to any
show of interest such as even checking a box on a paper form would be
OK.

2. An email with confirmation instructions is sent to the users address
to be subscribed to verify that the person who receives mail at that
address really wants to be on the list.

3. Only after the user follows the confirmation process of step 2 does
the user get added to the list. That's the second opt-in.

The key idea in this process is that the user's email address is only
added to the list after an affirmative response to an email sent to
that address.

I expect Krystal will correct me if I'm mistaken.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dmashal at intertrust.com  Tue Jun 24 23:04:29 2008
From: dmashal at intertrust.com (Dan Mashal)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:04:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail today and stopped
	archiving a month ago
Message-ID: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B0525932A@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>

We are using Feodra 8 with Mailman installed by Yum.

 

Just today we noticed that Mailman stopped archiving mail a month ago
(May 17th) and now Mailman is not even sending mail at all. 

 

Earlier today I tried making some changes to the postfix config (to open
relay to some other hosts) and noticed I could not restart postfix. It
seems that when Yum did its update to the kernel it turned on SElinux. I
could not even restart the postfix service.

 

I turned off SeLinux in the grub config and rebooted the server and now
I can restart postfix. 

 

However mailman is not sending mail anymore and the archives stopped
about a month ago. Could you please give some insight as to why this
might have happened?

 

Thanks,

Dan


From dmashal at intertrust.com  Tue Jun 24 23:34:51 2008
From: dmashal at intertrust.com (Dan Mashal)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:34:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail today and
	stoppedarchiving a month ago
In-Reply-To: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B0525932A@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>
References: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B0525932A@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>
Message-ID: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B05259347@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>

Further update on this, I forgot to allow 127.0.0.1 when I made a
postfix configuration file change.

The archiving stopped working when we migrated to a new mailman server.
Do you have an idea how I can turn archiving back on for all lists?

Thanks,
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+dmashal=intertrust.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+dmashal=intertrust.com at python.org] On
Behalf Of Dan Mashal
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 2:04 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail today and
stoppedarchiving a month ago

We are using Feodra 8 with Mailman installed by Yum.

 

Just today we noticed that Mailman stopped archiving mail a month ago
(May 17th) and now Mailman is not even sending mail at all. 

 

Earlier today I tried making some changes to the postfix config (to open
relay to some other hosts) and noticed I could not restart postfix. It
seems that when Yum did its update to the kernel it turned on SElinux. I
could not even restart the postfix service.

 

I turned off SeLinux in the grub config and rebooted the server and now
I can restart postfix. 

 

However mailman is not sending mail anymore and the archives stopped
about a month ago. Could you please give some insight as to why this
might have happened?

 

Thanks,

Dan

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From zipfel at greenacrestechnology.com  Tue Jun 24 23:41:15 2008
From: zipfel at greenacrestechnology.com (Krystal Zipfel)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:41:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription
In-Reply-To: <bfc33ad70806241401g546be73vb335e4d445acf683@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200806241743.m5OHhOJa002626@a.mail.sonic.net>	
	<48614D44.3030207@greenacrestechnology.com>
	<bfc33ad70806241401g546be73vb335e4d445acf683@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <486169FB.9010806@greenacrestechnology.com>

Hello,

Let me first say I was in no way competing with Cyndi's suggestion, I 
should probably have prefaced by saying I think the option provided is a 
good one. And again, we have no modifications to Mailman that is not 
built in to modify (we have turned off personalization for example, but 
no code modifications).

Double Opt-In is simply that the user stated twice that they want to 
subscribe to the list. In Mailman's option, Double Opt-In would be 
'Confirm'. Basically, it forces the subscriber to say "yes I want on 
this list", and then say "yes, I really really really do want to be on 
this list".

This way, if someone like say, Spam Arrest contacts us and says "we have 
X spam complaint", we can contact the user and say "what's up", and they 
say "here's when the user subscribed, here's when they said yea I really 
want that", and now Spam Arrest leaves us alone and the list is not 
blacklisted.

It's one of those double edged swords. In our case, it's not that we 
don't trust our users (but have a TOS in place of course just in case), 
it's that we don't trust other ISP's and Spam blackholes. For this 
reason, the burden of proof is placed on the account holder.

If a user mass-subscribes say, 10,000 members from a list of addresses 
they bought somewhere else, that user has absolutely no way to provide 
proof that the subscriber ever opted in to that list SPECIFICALLY.

However, on the flip side, if a user is moving from another host, or has 
multiple lists, or they're own signup pages/database, etc... they still 
have they're own proof but are using the mass subscription option to 
use. Hence why I personally do not think removing it entirely is a grand 
idea, and why offering a way for hosts to control the subscription 
process to a point could be very helpful.

Krystal

Fil wrote:
> Hi Krystal,
>
> I'd be interested to know what you call "double opt-in". Is it a web
> subscription + email reply with the cookie, or double-that (and in
> that case, what is the scenario).
>
> FWIW I don't think the option Cindy proposes passes Occam's razor. For
> the moment it looks like lots of complexity for a need that is not
> well defined and certainly not generic. If the ISP has deliberately
> crippled Mailman's interface up to the point it's not usable any more,
> they should probably try and come up with a solution; or at least try
> to explain (to the devs or the users) why and how.
>
> -- Fil
>
>   


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 24 23:43:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:43:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail today
	andstoppedarchiving a month ago
In-Reply-To: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B05259347@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806241443390093c6ef3ac4@msapiro>

Dan Mashal wrote:

>Further update on this, I forgot to allow 127.0.0.1 when I made a
>postfix configuration file change.


Does this mean outgoing mail is now working?


>The archiving stopped working when we migrated to a new mailman server.
>Do you have an idea how I can turn archiving back on for all lists?


Not without knowing why it's not working. See the general trouble
shooting FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

Look at Mailman's logs. Run Mailman's bin/check_perms. Check the
archiving settings, particularly ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX, in Defaults.py -
mm_cfg.py.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zipfel at greenacrestechnology.com  Tue Jun 24 23:46:29 2008
From: zipfel at greenacrestechnology.com (Krystal Zipfel)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:46:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806241424230281d2737df0@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200806241424230281d2737df0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <48616B35.7060203@greenacrestechnology.com>

That is EXACTLY right.

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> My understanding of this is that "double opt-in" and what I call
> "confirmed opt-in" are the same thing and that they mean
>
> 1. User requests to be on the list via a web form, email, etc. This is
> the first opt-in. Note that strictly speaking, this probably precludes
> unsolicited invitations, although an invitation in response to any
> show of interest such as even checking a box on a paper form would be
> OK.
>
> 2. An email with confirmation instructions is sent to the users address
> to be subscribed to verify that the person who receives mail at that
> address really wants to be on the list.
>
> 3. Only after the user follows the confirmation process of step 2 does
> the user get added to the list. That's the second opt-in.
>
> The key idea in this process is that the user's email address is only
> added to the list after an affirmative response to an email sent to
> that address.
>
> I expect Krystal will correct me if I'm mistaken.
>
>   
>


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Jun 24 23:48:49 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:48:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ links should be changed
Message-ID: <200806242145.m5OLjTAs006547@newbox.eroded.org>

Now that the FAQ has migrated to the Wiki, perhaps the links in the 
footers of the list messages should be changed to reflect that?

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From dmashal at intertrust.com  Tue Jun 24 23:59:54 2008
From: dmashal at intertrust.com (Dan Mashal)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:59:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail today
	andstoppedarchiving a month ago
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806241443390093c6ef3ac4@msapiro>
References: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B05259347@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>
	<PC1870200806241443390093c6ef3ac4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B0525935A@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>

>Does this mean outgoing mail is now working?

Yes.


>Not without knowing why it's not working. See the general trouble
>shooting FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.
>
>Look at Mailman's logs. Run Mailman's bin/check_perms. Check the
>archiving settings, particularly ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX, in Defaults.py -
>mm_cfg.py.

[root at psi mailman]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms
Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
         This could allow other users on your system to read private
archives.
         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
         installation manual on how to fix this.
No problems found

/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py says:

# Are archives on or off by default?
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = On

# Are archives public or private by default?
# 0=public, 1=private
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 0

# ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX
#-1 - do not do any archiving
# 0 - do not archive to mbox, use builtin mailman html archiving only
# 1 - archive to mbox to use an external archiving mechanism only
# 2 - archive to both mbox and builtin mailman html archiving -
#     use this to make both external archiving mechanism work and
#     mailman's builtin html archiving.  the flat mail file can be
#     useful for searching, external archivers, etc.
ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2


From JPenrod at weather.com  Wed Jun 25 00:11:26 2008
From: JPenrod at weather.com (Penrod, John)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:11:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Items delayed in qfiles/in
In-Reply-To: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B0525935A@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>
Message-ID: <479C6AE46FA73241AD5969D9F9A4841308C7F9A7@ATLMAIL01.corp.weather.com>

I've got an issue where mail is handed off to mailman from sendmail
correctly, but it will sit in the qfiles/in queue for a few minutes up
to almost an hour.  Then it will magically get processed though and sent
off to its destinations.

Any thoughts on what this might be? 

John P.




From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 25 00:31:05 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:31:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail today
	andstoppedarchiving a month ago
In-Reply-To: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B0525935A@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806241531050765c9c970c2@msapiro>

Dan Mashal wrote:
>>
>>Look at Mailman's logs. Run Mailman's bin/check_perms. Check the
>>archiving settings, particularly ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX, in Defaults.py -
>>mm_cfg.py.
>
>[root at psi mailman]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms
>Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
>         This could allow other users on your system to read private
>archives.
>         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
>         installation manual on how to fix this.
>No problems found


Here's my best guess at this point.

1. the lists' archives are public.

2. when you migrated the archives, instead of copying the symlinks to
archives/private/* directories from archives/public, you copied the
actual linked directories.

3. Mailman is archiving just fine in archives/private/* as it should,
but since archives/public/* is now the static structure you migrated,
you don't see any changes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 25 00:40:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:40:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Items delayed in qfiles/in
In-Reply-To: <479C6AE46FA73241AD5969D9F9A4841308C7F9A7@ATLMAIL01.corp.weather.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806241540510906c9c9717d@msapiro>

Penrod, John wrote:

>I've got an issue where mail is handed off to mailman from sendmail
>correctly, but it will sit in the qfiles/in queue for a few minutes up
>to almost an hour.  Then it will magically get processed though and sent
>off to its destinations.
>
>Any thoughts on what this might be? 


Have you set QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME in mm_cfg.py. Its normal Defaults.py
setting is seconds(1) which means that the runners should sleep for 1
second between looks at their queues.

If you have set QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME to hours(1) or 3600, that would
explain what you see. If not, then for some reason, your OS is not
waking up IncomingRunner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dmashal at intertrust.com  Wed Jun 25 00:53:44 2008
From: dmashal at intertrust.com (Dan Mashal)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:53:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail today
	andstoppedarchiving a month ago
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806241531050765c9c970c2@msapiro>
References: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B0525935A@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>
	<PC1870200806241531050765c9c970c2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B0525937C@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>

I'm thinking 3 may be correct. All the lists are set to yes, private,
monthly archive in the actual mailman web interface..so how would I go
about fixing this?

Thanks,
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 3:31 PM
To: Dan Mashal; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail today
andstoppedarchiving a month ago

Dan Mashal wrote:
>>
>>Look at Mailman's logs. Run Mailman's bin/check_perms. Check the
>>archiving settings, particularly ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX, in Defaults.py -
>>mm_cfg.py.
>
>[root at psi mailman]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms
>Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
>         This could allow other users on your system to read private
>archives.
>         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
>         installation manual on how to fix this.
>No problems found


Here's my best guess at this point.

1. the lists' archives are public.

2. when you migrated the archives, instead of copying the symlinks to
archives/private/* directories from archives/public, you copied the
actual linked directories.

3. Mailman is archiving just fine in archives/private/* as it should,
but since archives/public/* is now the static structure you migrated,
you don't see any changes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at python.org  Wed Jun 25 01:10:42 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:10:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ links should be changed
In-Reply-To: <200806242145.m5OLjTAs006547@newbox.eroded.org>
References: <200806242145.m5OLjTAs006547@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <48617EF2.5040205@python.org>

Dragon wrote:

> Now that the FAQ has migrated to the Wiki, perhaps the links in the 
> footers of the list messages should be changed to reflect that?

Good point.  Thanks for reminding me!

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 25 01:22:22 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:22:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail today
	andstoppedarchiving a month ago
In-Reply-To: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B0525937C@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806241622220250c9c96ed0@msapiro>

Dan Mashal wrote:

>I'm thinking 3 may be correct. All the lists are set to yes, private,
>monthly archive in the actual mailman web interface..so how would I go
>about fixing this?


The scenario I was suggesting was not an either/or, it was all three.

If the archives are private and you are visiting the archives with an
http://www.example.com/mailman/private/... like URL as opposed to
http://www.example.com/pipermail/..., then that scenario doesn't apply.

In that case, archives/public/ should be and probably is empty.

So we need more clues.

What's in Mailman's error log? Is ArchiveRunner running? What's in
qfiles/archive?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 25 02:32:15 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:32:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail today
	andstoppedarchiving a month ago
In-Reply-To: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B05259397@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062417321504683a517263@msapiro>

Dan Mashal wrote:

>If by "ArchiveRunner" you mean qrunner, yes it is running. 


Actually I meant ArchRunner, one of the 8 qrunner processes that should
be running, but I can see it's running from the error log.


>Yes, The public directories are mostly empty and we are using
>/mailman/private not pipermail.
>
>I don't really see a qfiles directory. Where would this be?


Since this is Fedora 8, you probably have RedHat's FHS mods so there is
no qfiles/ directory. The queue directories are in /var/spool/mailman.

>Todays error log:
>
>Jun 22 06:27:44 2008 (1825) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13]
>Permission denied:
>'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/man-cie/database/2008-June-date.lock.
>psi.1825.298'
>Jun 22 06:27:44 2008 (1825) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in
>_dispose
>    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
>ArchiveMail
>    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 583, in
>processUnixMailbox
>    self.add_article(a)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 635, in
>add_article
>    article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 667, in
>get_parent_info
>    article.subject)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 311,
>in getOldestArticle
>    self.__openIndices(archive)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251,
>in __openIndices
>    t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 61, in
>__init__
>    self.lock()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 77, in
>lock
>    self.lockfile.lock()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
>    self.__write()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
>    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/man-cie/database/2008-June-date.lock.
>psi.1825.298'

[...]


The above error and all the others like it are the reason your lists
aren't archiving.

The mailman group does not have permission to create lock files in the
various /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<listname>/database/
directories.

You said SELinux is off, so this must be a straight permissions issue.



>Jun 24 06:56:13 2008 qrunner(1838):
>/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py:907: DeprecationWarning: raising a
>string exception is deprecated
>  raise Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation


This warning is not significant. It comes from running pre 2.1.10
Mailman with Python 2.5 or later.  Mailman 2.1.10 and 2.1.11 supress
this warning.



>Jun 24 06:56:42 2008 (1842) Failed to unlink backup file:
>/var/spool/mailman/out/1214311764.2174809+7741dea36f059117afa91f45d102be
>d1b23e539e.bak


>Jun 24 06:56:48 2008 qrunner(2568): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jun 24 06:56:48 2008 qrunner(2568):   File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
>Jun 24 06:56:48 2008 qrunner(2568):      main()
>Jun 24 06:56:48 2008 qrunner(2568):   File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
>Jun 24 06:56:48 2008 qrunner(2568):      qrunner.run()
>Jun 24 06:56:48 2008 qrunner(2568):   File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
>Jun 24 06:56:48 2008 qrunner(2568):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
>Jun 24 06:56:48 2008 qrunner(2568):   File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
>Jun 24 06:56:48 2008 qrunner(2568):      msg, msgdata =
>self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>Jun 24 06:56:48 2008 qrunner(2568):   File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in dequeue
>Jun 24 06:56:48 2008 qrunner(2568):      fp = open(filename)
>Jun 24 06:56:48 2008 qrunner(2568): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or
>directory:
>'/var/spool/mailman/out/1214310787.1975391+bb00fd6e837182b6c5d7688667785
>43442465949.pck' 


The two errors above and all the similar ones indicate that there are
two copies of Outgoing runner. See <http://wiki.list.org/x/_4A9> for
what to do about this.

If there were errors other than those four types, I didn't see them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 25 02:50:30 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:50:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail
	todayandstoppedarchiving a month ago
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008062417321504683a517263@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062417503001564aa46e7a@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote
>
>The mailman group does not have permission to create lock files in the
>various /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<listname>/database/
>directories.
>
>You said SELinux is off, so this must be a straight permissions issue.


I meant to add that all your missing archive messages are in
/var/spool/mailman/shunt/. After you fix the permissions issue, you
can reprocess them with Mailman's bin/unshunt.

It is generally a good idea to look at the entries before unshunting
all of them in case some are very old, irrelevant entries from before
your migration. Given what must be the huge number of entries, this
may be difficult, but I would look at those older than your migration
with bin/show_qfiles to se if they should be removed befor running
unshunt.

Also, after you run bin/unshunt and the shunt queue is empty or nearly
so, you might consider doing something like to reduce the physical
size of the directory.

Or you can simply do

mv /var/spool/mailman/shunt /tmp/
cp -a /tmp/shunt /var/spool/mailman/
rm -r /tmp/shunt

to reduce the physical size of the directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From taner at pardus.org.tr  Wed Jun 25 08:16:37 2008
From: taner at pardus.org.tr (Taner Tas)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:16:37 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The admin web interface is not saving my changes
 and keeps asking me to re-enter my password
Message-ID: <4861E2C5.1070004@pardus.org.tr>

I choose same title of Mailman FAQ 4.45 which describes my problem 
exactly. I checked every suggestion on this FAQ but no one seems 
suitable for fix my problem.

I need a helpful trick for tracing the connections and authentication 
steps on mailman. How can i use detailed debug level logging facilities 
of mailman, if there is something like user configurable logging 
options. Mailman's own error log file seems far away to get usable 
information at the moment.

Taner

From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Wed Jun 25 08:52:49 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:52:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache, mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented
Message-ID: <200806250652.m5P6qni9025085@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

I've looked at the installation page over at the Wiki and there is nothing
regarding the problem I've run up against.

See page 6 of the Installation Manual (pdf).

It states the following should be added:

	ScriptAlias /mailman/ $prefix/cgi-bin/

I already have ScriptAlias defined:

	ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/home/httpd/cgi-bin/"

One is not allowed to have multiple ScriptAlias lines.  It almost appears
that the instructions assume that no other ScriptAliases exist.  Not likely.

The instructions have no workaround if Apache already has cgi-bin defined.

Is there a workaround?

Thanks for any pointers?

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Wed Jun 25 09:15:15 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:15:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] David Champion Sendmail files not available
Message-ID: <200806250715.m5P7FFnG025275@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

FedoraCore7.
Mailman installed with FC7.  As a result, the David Champion files listed on
page 16 of the Installation Manual do not exist on my system.

Is there a location from which they can be downloaded?

I have no idea if the stuff in his guides has been done on this system
until I actually verify the steps.

Thanks.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Wed Jun 25 10:25:00 2008
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:25:00 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
	mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented
In-Reply-To: <200806250652.m5P6qni9025085@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
References: <200806250652.m5P6qni9025085@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <D93B0F58-885F-44AB-B0FD-2E5ACD55C86E@ozemail.com.au>


On 25/06/2008, at 4:52 PM, Vidiot wrote:

> I've looked at the installation page over at the Wiki and there is  
> nothing
> regarding the problem I've run up against.
>
> See page 6 of the Installation Manual (pdf).
>
> It states the following should be added:
>
> 	ScriptAlias /mailman/ $prefix/cgi-bin/
>
> I already have ScriptAlias defined:
>
> 	ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/home/httpd/cgi-bin/"
>
> One is not allowed to have multiple ScriptAlias lines.  It almost  
> appears
> that the instructions assume that no other ScriptAliases exist.  Not  
> likely.
>
> The instructions have no workaround if Apache already has cgi-bin  
> defined.
>
> Is there a workaround?
>
> Thanks for any pointers?
>
Hi again.

Actually, you are allowed to have multiple ScriptAlias lines within  
your httpd.conf (or any of your vhost.conf files if you have  
multiples. So long as they only point to a specific directory &  
separate path you'll be fine. One of the servers I manage has maybe 14  
different aliases running - I am sure there will be others who have  
many more.

What the part of the manual you are referring to is saying is that  
when someone calls /mailman, Apache knows that scripts within that  
path are to be executed instead of being served straight up. It's an  
addition to your existing cgi-bin rather than a replacement. Hope that  
rather simplistic explanation serves to help you understand it a  
little better.

	Bye for now, Terry Allen	 
___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------




From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Wed Jun 25 14:20:29 2008
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:20:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipients missing on list post
In-Reply-To: <20080621114217.GK15226@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20080619140129.GG15226@mail.incertum.net>
	<PC1870200806191716020203a4f459cd@msapiro>
	<20080621114217.GK15226@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <20080625122029.GC15226@mail.incertum.net>

* Stefan F?rster <cite+mailman-users at incertum.net> wrote:
> * Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>> I'm not sure if this is better, but if your Python is 2.4 or later, see
>> <http://wiki.list.org/x/-IA9> for a patch that can be applied to
>> Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to produce copious debugging output
>> from Python's smtplib to Mailman's error log
> 
> I put thos in place, thank you. Furthermore, I've written a small
> script to parse Mailman and Postfix logs once a day - the next time a
> recipient is omitted I will be notified. Now I have to wait...

This one did the trick. Thanks again, this was _very_ helpful.

>> You could also patch Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to add
>> 
>>     syslog.write('smtp', 'recips this chunk = %d', len(recips))
> 
> Listing the number of recipients that the SMTP handler gets is a good
> idea, I've added that one, too.
> 
> I will report my findings the next time I run into this issue.

I have identified the source of my issues: It turned out that the
Mailman installation I inherited was more heavily modified than I
thought - and one of those modifications was the source of the issue I
described. I decided to permanently take care of this and did a clean
reinstall, followed by artitifical stress testing and as expected, the
problem vanished.

I apologize for the noise my inquiry caused.


Cheers
Stefan
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jun 25 15:23:06 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:23:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The admin web interface is not saving my
 changes and keeps asking me to re-enter my password
In-Reply-To: <4861E2C5.1070004@pardus.org.tr>
References: <4861E2C5.1070004@pardus.org.tr>
Message-ID: <486246BA.7000005@shub-internet.org>

Taner Tas wrote:

> I need a helpful trick for tracing the connections and authentication 
> steps on mailman. How can i use detailed debug level logging facilities 
> of mailman, if there is something like user configurable logging 
> options.

There is no additional logging that can be enabled.  If you're willing to 
make source code changes, you could always add your own logging statements, 
but other than that you're already getting as much as you're going to get.

>           Mailman's own error log file seems far away to get usable 
> information at the moment.

All cases of this sort that I know of are covered by the FAQ, so if you've 
got a new condition (not covered by the cookie issue, the frames issue, 
etc...), then we'll need to add that to the list.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 25 15:57:16 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:57:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
	mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented
In-Reply-To: <200806250652.m5P6qni9025085@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062506571600468e00c5be@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:

>I've looked at the installation page over at the Wiki and there is nothing
>regarding the problem I've run up against.
>
>See page 6 of the Installation Manual (pdf).
>
>It states the following should be added:
>
>	ScriptAlias /mailman/ $prefix/cgi-bin/
>
>I already have ScriptAlias defined:
>
>	ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/home/httpd/cgi-bin/"
>
>One is not allowed to have multiple ScriptAlias lines.


Why do you think that?

[gpc at sbh16 ~]$ grep -i scriptalias /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf
# ScriptAlias: This controls which directories contain server scripts.
# ScriptAliases are essentially the same as Aliases, except that
# The same rules about trailing "/" apply to ScriptAlias directives as
to
ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/var/www/cgi-bin/"
ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
# "/var/www/cgi-bin" should be changed to whatever your ScriptAliased
# To use CGI scripts outside of ScriptAliased directories:
ScriptAlias /cgi/ /var/www/grizz/cgi/
ScriptAlias /cvsweb /var/www/grizz/cgi-bin/admin/cvsweb
    ScriptAlias /gpc "/var/www/grizz/moin/gpc/moin.cgi"
[gpc at sbh16 ~]$


Works for me.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 25 16:09:00 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:09:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] David Champion Sendmail files not available
In-Reply-To: <200806250715.m5P7FFnG025275@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062507090004538e00c745@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:

>FedoraCore7.
>Mailman installed with FC7.  As a result, the David Champion files listed on
>page 16 of the Installation Manual do not exist on my system.
>
>Is there a location from which they can be downloaded?
>
>I have no idea if the stuff in his guides has been done on this system
>until I actually verify the steps.


mm-handler is rather specialized and not applicable to a lot of systems.

See <http://wiki.list.org/x/joA9> for some other ideas.

You can find everything we distribute, including the mm-handler files
at <http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files>.
Look in the contrib/ directory.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 25 17:34:11 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:34:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The admin web interface is not saving my
	changesand keeps asking me to re-enter my password
In-Reply-To: <4861E2C5.1070004@pardus.org.tr>
Message-ID: <PC187020080625083411060968df71ac@msapiro>

Taner Tas wrote:

>I choose same title of Mailman FAQ 4.45 which describes my problem 
>exactly. I checked every suggestion on this FAQ but no one seems 
>suitable for fix my problem.


Sorry for asking, but the FAQ itself is not clear. Do you get returned
to a login screen with every attempt to make a change or visit another
link? If so, the appropriate FAQs are 4.65
<http://wiki.list.org/x/loA9> and 4.71 <http://wiki.list.org/x/moA9>.

Have you tried from a different browser or from a different computer
with a different internet connection? Sometimes these things are
dependant on things like local firewalls.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From webmaster at stc.org  Wed Jun 25 17:20:48 2008
From: webmaster at stc.org (Webmaster PF)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:20:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer
Message-ID: <D877F5CFA51887468CE533659A0D362C8D6D23@mailhost.stchq.org>

I would like to have all posting to my list to have a standard footer. How to I accomplish this? Thanks.

 

 

Shaf

 

 Example:

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

Mailman-Users mailing list

Mailman-Users at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/webmaster%40stc.org

Mailman-Users at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3

 


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1517 - Release Date: 6/24/2008 8:41 PM
 

From terri at zone12.com  Wed Jun 25 17:44:36 2008
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:44:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer
In-Reply-To: <D877F5CFA51887468CE533659A0D362C8D6D23@mailhost.stchq.org>
References: <D877F5CFA51887468CE533659A0D362C8D6D23@mailhost.stchq.org>
Message-ID: <B5814F21-344F-4CFF-B459-0A92BCF4FEB3@zone12.com>

On 25-Jun-08, at 11:20 AM, Webmaster PF wrote:
> I would like to have all posting to my list to have a standard  
> footer. How to I accomplish this? Thanks.

In the admin interface, look under "Non-digest options" for the  
footer settings.

(Incidentally, this is really non-obvious now that I think about it  
-- I'll add it to my list of things that could be easier to find in  
our current interface...)

  Terri


From michael_lynn at ml.com  Wed Jun 25 18:11:32 2008
From: michael_lynn at ml.com (Lynn, Michael (GWM-CAI))
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:11:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] was Standard Footer, now Images in Footer?
In-Reply-To: <B5814F21-344F-4CFF-B459-0A92BCF4FEB3@zone12.com>
Message-ID: <A31A6594B84121479A71D1195BBA088FB3FF60@mlnyc20mb054.amrs.win.ml.com>

Sorry to Hijack/Piggyback...

Is there an easy way to incorporate an image into this?  I'm thinking
the answer is no - since determination of the mail content format is
made outside mailman's sphere of influence... Just curious if anybody
has attempted this.

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+michael_lynn=ml.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+michael_lynn=ml.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Terri Oda
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 11:45 AM
To: Webmaster PF
Cc: Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer


On 25-Jun-08, at 11:20 AM, Webmaster PF wrote:
> I would like to have all posting to my list to have a standard  
> footer. How to I accomplish this? Thanks.

In the admin interface, look under "Non-digest options" for the  
footer settings.

(Incidentally, this is really non-obvious now that I think about it  
-- I'll add it to my list of things that could be easier to find in  
our current interface...)

  Terri

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/michael_lynn%40ml.c
om

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
--------------------------------------------------------

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From webmaster at stc.org  Wed Jun 25 19:00:35 2008
From: webmaster at stc.org (Webmaster PF)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:00:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer
In-Reply-To: <B5814F21-344F-4CFF-B459-0A92BCF4FEB3@zone12.com>
Message-ID: <D877F5CFA51887468CE533659A0D362C8D6D31@mailhost.stchq.org>

I tried to follow these procedures but when some one posts the footer is in the attachment of the posting instead of the body; unless my Outlook is viewing them wrong.

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg48559.html

This is what I have in my settings:

%(real_name)s mailing list
%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
Unsubscribe: %(user_optionsurl)s

Shaf


-----Original Message-----
From: Terri Oda [mailto:terri at zone12.com] 
Posted At: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 11:45 AM
Posted To: Webmaster PF
Conversation: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer

On 25-Jun-08, at 11:20 AM, Webmaster PF wrote:
> I would like to have all posting to my list to have a standard  
> footer. How to I accomplish this? Thanks.

In the admin interface, look under "Non-digest options" for the  
footer settings.

(Incidentally, this is really non-obvious now that I think about it  
-- I'll add it to my list of things that could be easier to find in  
our current interface...)

  Terri


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1517 - Release Date: 6/24/2008 8:41 PM
 

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1517 - Release Date: 6/24/2008 8:41 PM
 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jun 25 19:26:03 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:26:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer
In-Reply-To: <D877F5CFA51887468CE533659A0D362C8D6D31@mailhost.stchq.org>
References: <D877F5CFA51887468CE533659A0D362C8D6D31@mailhost.stchq.org>
Message-ID: <48627FAB.1010700@shub-internet.org>

Webmaster PF wrote:

> I tried to follow these procedures but when some one posts the footer is
> in the attachment of the posting instead of the body; unless my Outlook
> is viewing them wrong.

If you go to the FAQ page at 
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked+Questions> and search for 
"footer", one of the top hits will have the subject line "Mailman is munging 
HTML & MIME-formatted messages before they are sent out? (problems with 
Mailman 2.1.x footers)", and the short URL for this page is 
<http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9>.

Please tell us what is wrong with this subject line and why it didn't show 
up in your previous searches of the FAQ.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jun 25 19:30:42 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:30:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] was Standard Footer, now Images in Footer?
In-Reply-To: <A31A6594B84121479A71D1195BBA088FB3FF60@mlnyc20mb054.amrs.win.ml.com>
References: <A31A6594B84121479A71D1195BBA088FB3FF60@mlnyc20mb054.amrs.win.ml.com>
Message-ID: <486280C2.2060505@shub-internet.org>

Lynn, Michael (GWM-CAI) wrote:

> Is there an easy way to incorporate an image into this?  I'm thinking
> the answer is no - since determination of the mail content format is
> made outside mailman's sphere of influence... Just curious if anybody
> has attempted this.

Not without making source-code level changes to the Mailman code, no.  You 
can't even include any HTML in the footer.

You can include text-mode links, although they may get HTML-escaped if you 
enter them through the Web UI instead of putting them directly into the 
template text file on the server.


Take a look in the archives at somewhat older messages to this mailing list. 
  They were HTML-escaped because I had entered the URLs via the Web UI.  Now 
that we've moved the FAQ over to the Wiki and we no longer have URLS with 
question marks in them, you don't see that HTML escaping anymore.


The problem of doing surgery on HTML formatted e-mail messages as they pass 
through the system is much more complex than anyone ever gives credit for. 
See the archives of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists 
for more information.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From dmashal at intertrust.com  Wed Jun 25 19:47:33 2008
From: dmashal at intertrust.com (Dan Mashal)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:47:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail
	todayandstoppedarchiving a month ago
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008062417503001564aa46e7a@msapiro>
References: <PC18702008062417321504683a517263@msapiro>
	<PC18702008062417503001564aa46e7a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B05259445@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>

Thank you so much!! The archive dirs were owned by root. I chowned the
archive dirs and ran unshunt and now all my archives show up. I also
fixed the 2 outgoing copies of qrunner.

Unfortunately, Fedora has not come out with a yum mailman package for
2.10 or 2.11.. so I'm still waiting on this but it kinda scares me that
it might break something. 

Thank you again!

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 5:51 PM
To: Dan Mashal; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail
todayandstoppedarchiving a month ago

Mark Sapiro wrote
>
>The mailman group does not have permission to create lock files in the
>various /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<listname>/database/
>directories.
>
>You said SELinux is off, so this must be a straight permissions issue.


I meant to add that all your missing archive messages are in
/var/spool/mailman/shunt/. After you fix the permissions issue, you
can reprocess them with Mailman's bin/unshunt.

It is generally a good idea to look at the entries before unshunting
all of them in case some are very old, irrelevant entries from before
your migration. Given what must be the huge number of entries, this
may be difficult, but I would look at those older than your migration
with bin/show_qfiles to se if they should be removed befor running
unshunt.

Also, after you run bin/unshunt and the shunt queue is empty or nearly
so, you might consider doing something like to reduce the physical
size of the directory.

Or you can simply do

mv /var/spool/mailman/shunt /tmp/
cp -a /tmp/shunt /var/spool/mailman/
rm -r /tmp/shunt

to reduce the physical size of the directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From webwitchcraft at webwitchcraft.com  Thu Jun 26 00:16:36 2008
From: webwitchcraft at webwitchcraft.com (TGPlatt, WebMaster)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:16:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Somewhere I think I've missed a step. Did I finish
	the Install wrong?
Message-ID: <009a01c8d711$23c26f20$0200a8c0@gregsrocket>

I'm a new mailman server administrator. I'm trying to install the app on my
server for a new client who has been running it for 2 years on another host.
I'm using Python 2.4.5 (a fresh install downloaded from the Python.org site
and mailman 2.1.11 downloaded from SourceForge via the www.lists.org site
(i.e. these are pure vanilla - straight from the box - installs) It's
installed on my dedicated RedHat Linux server running RH v7.1

 

Mailman is installed in /usr/local/mailman/ 

 

./Configure, make and "make install" all ran okay from WITHIN
/usr/local/mailman/src once I finally figured out I could not put both the
source and the runtime into /usr./local/mailman and moved the source to the
src subdirectory. 

 

HOWEVER, please note that I have ONLY run "make install" in
/usr/local/mailman/src. I have NOT installed mailman in any user domain's
home directory (or subdirectory) yet. I DID make my target user domain (lets
call it riverrats) a member of the mailman group; but that's as far as I've
gone at the moment. Mailman isn't even in the search path for the riverrats
domain. I have a hunch this was a mistake or that there's SOMETHING else I
still must do INSIDE the riverrats domain in order to enable users to access
mailman from there. As it stands now, the ONLY way to run the mailman apps
on the server would be for riverrats users to log into /usr/local/mailman
and run them from there. Yipes! :-( 

 

I believe I made all the required configuration changes to set up the apache
server properly and I've restarted apache. I also made the required alias
changes and modified the  mm_cfg.py file in mailman to reflect the domain's 

 

So, theoretically I SHOULD be ready to run. Except I have a hunch I've
managed to overlook or skip over some key step somewhere. Am I right?

 

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 26 01:45:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:45:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Somewhere I think I've missed a step. Did I
	finishthe Install wrong?
In-Reply-To: <009a01c8d711$23c26f20$0200a8c0@gregsrocket>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062516451406560e5e529e@msapiro>

TGPlatt, WebMaster wrote:

>I'm a new mailman server administrator. I'm trying to install the app on my
>server for a new client who has been running it for 2 years on another host.
>I'm using Python 2.4.5 (a fresh install downloaded from the Python.org site
>and mailman 2.1.11 downloaded from SourceForge via the www.lists.org site
>(i.e. these are pure vanilla - straight from the box - installs) It's
>installed on my dedicated RedHat Linux server running RH v7.1
>
> 
>
>Mailman is installed in /usr/local/mailman/ 
>
> 
>
>./Configure, make and "make install" all ran okay from WITHIN
>/usr/local/mailman/src once I finally figured out I could not put both the
>source and the runtime into /usr./local/mailman and moved the source to the
>src subdirectory. 
>
> 
>
>HOWEVER, please note that I have ONLY run "make install" in
>/usr/local/mailman/src. I have NOT installed mailman in any user domain's
>home directory (or subdirectory) yet.


That's fine. You don't need to.


>I DID make my target user domain (lets
>call it riverrats) a member of the mailman group; but that's as far as I've
>gone at the moment.


That may or may not be necessary or advisable depending on what you
want.


>Mailman isn't even in the search path for the riverrats
>domain. I have a hunch this was a mistake or that there's SOMETHING else I
>still must do INSIDE the riverrats domain in order to enable users to access
>mailman from there. As it stands now, the ONLY way to run the mailman apps
>on the server would be for riverrats users to log into /usr/local/mailman
>and run them from there. Yipes! :-( 


Users do not run Mailman applications. Mailman runs as a service. The
MTA delivers mail to Mailman's queues via scripts invoked via aliases
or perhaps some other method depending on the MTA, and Mailman's queue
runners which are started by /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl by
root, either directly or at boot time. The various other
/usr/local/mailman/bin/* commands are normally only run by Mailman
site admins.


>I believe I made all the required configuration changes to set up the apache
>server properly and I've restarted apache. I also made the required alias
>changes and modified the  mm_cfg.py file in mailman to reflect the domain's 
>
> 
>
>So, theoretically I SHOULD be ready to run. Except I have a hunch I've
>managed to overlook or skip over some key step somewhere. Am I right?


Maybe not starting mailmanctl?

See <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>, and if you're still having
difficulty, let us know what the specific problem is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 26 01:57:10 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:57:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
	mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented
In-Reply-To: <200806251510.m5PFAvui029746@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806251657100140e44be116@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:
>
>After doing said setting in the config file and restarting the seb server
>it spits out a warning messag that it exists and that the 2nd one might not
>get reached.
>
>I'll do it again and post the exact warning message.


That's because you're installing a RedHat package, and the RPM already
installed /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf which contains that
ScriptAlias.

You should be following the RedHat documentation that came with your
package, not our generic, install from source documentation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Thu Jun 26 02:01:38 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:01:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
	mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008062506571600468e00c5be@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806260001.m5Q01cR5001457@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

>Why do you think that?

ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/home/httpd/cgi-bin/"
ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin"

mrvideo.vidiot.com.ZROOT <406> /etc/init.d/httpd restart       
Stopping httpd:                                            [  OK  ]
Starting httpd: [Wed Jun 25 18:59:28 2008] [warn] The ScriptAlias directive in /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf at line 571 will probably never match because it overlaps an earlier ScriptAlias.
                                                           [  OK  ]

The 2nd ScriptAlias line is line 571.

If I comment it out and restart the web server, there are no errors.

That is why I say it doesn't work.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 26 02:07:04 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:07:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
	mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented
In-Reply-To: <200806260001.m5Q01cR5001457@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020080625170704092174e7e15d@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:

>>Why do you think that?
>
>ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/home/httpd/cgi-bin/"
>ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin"
>
>mrvideo.vidiot.com.ZROOT <406> /etc/init.d/httpd restart       
>Stopping httpd:                                            [  OK  ]
>Starting httpd: [Wed Jun 25 18:59:28 2008] [warn] The ScriptAlias directive in /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf at line 571 will probably never match because it overlaps an earlier ScriptAlias.
>                                                           [  OK  ]
>
>The 2nd ScriptAlias line is line 571.
>
>If I comment it out and restart the web server, there are no errors.
>
>That is why I say it doesn't work.


See my reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-June/062259.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Thu Jun 26 02:16:33 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:16:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
	mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806251657100140e44be116@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806260016.m5Q0GXDO001583@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

>That's because you're installing a RedHat package, and the RPM already
>installed /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf which contains that
>ScriptAlias.

Oh crap.  Another reason I am going toward Solaris 10.  The last thing I'd
do is stick a web server confing file in another directory and include it.
If they would have dropped the mailman config file in the main config
directory, it would have caught my attention.

Burying it elsewhere just does the out-of-sight, out-of-mind thing.

>You should be following the RedHat documentation that came with your
>package, not our generic, install from source documentation.

Ya, that is going to be fun - NOT!  I don't even know where the DVD is at
the moment and have no idea if they actually installed any doumentation.

At this point I'm just going to say screw it until I get the Solaris 10 box
up and running.  The configurations are obviously going to be different as
I have no idea what the Hell they did when mailman was installed.  FYI,
there is no man page for mailman, so there isn't even a hint as to what
they did.

The computer is running, sorta.  The damn processor is running hot and that
is just sitting on the BIOS screen looking at system values.  The AMD
supplied heatsink can't even keep the temp near 40 deg C doing nothing.
In a warm room, trying to install Solaris results in Solaris bitching
that the temp is too hot and stopping.  Sure enough, it was at 61 degrees,
four less than the operational max.

Not your problem.

Thanks for pointing this out.  I'll go away now and compile the source
when I get Sol10 working.  Speaking of that, do you suggest using GNU or
Sun Studio to compile the package?

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 26 02:27:56 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:27:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
	mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented
In-Reply-To: <200806260016.m5Q0GXDO001583@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806251727560578c1c61f3a@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:
>
>Thanks for pointing this out.  I'll go away now and compile the source
>when I get Sol10 working.  Speaking of that, do you suggest using GNU or
>Sun Studio to compile the package?


There are others on this list that can speak to Solaris installation
about which I know almost nothing.

The results of
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Apython.org+inurl%3Amailman+solaris+korean>
may interest you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Jun 26 04:11:33 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:11:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
 mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented
In-Reply-To: <200806260016.m5Q0GXDO001583@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
References: <200806260016.m5Q0GXDO001583@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c488aac65925@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/25/08, Vidiot wrote:

>  Thanks for pointing this out.  I'll go away now and compile the source
>  when I get Sol10 working.  Speaking of that, do you suggest using GNU or
>  Sun Studio to compile the package?

Following our standard installation procedure works just fine for 
Solaris 10.  I've done it.


Moreover, the Mailman code is written in Python, so there shouldn't 
be any need to compile anything with any C compiler.

If there was anything that needed to be compiled with a C compiler, I 
would think that the Gnu C compiler would probably be a better choice 
than the Sun compiler, but it shouldn't really make much of a 
difference.  What differences there are would probably be more a 
result of gmake versus Sun's version of make, as compared to the 
compiler differences.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Thu Jun 26 05:26:27 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:26:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
	mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806251727560578c1c61f3a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806260326.m5Q3QRwN002864@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

>The results of
><http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Apython.org+inurl%3Amailman+solaris+korean>
>may interest you.
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,

Thanks, so noted.

The Solaris 10 installed.  The proc temp stayed low enough to not get Solaris
mad and want to halt.

Lots of work to do to get the new box up and running as the new server.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Jun 26 05:42:19 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:42:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
 mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c488aac65925@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <200806260016.m5Q0GXDO001583@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
	<p06240800c488aac65925@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <18531.4123.213520.269917@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > Moreover, the Mailman code is written in Python, so there shouldn't 
 > be any need to compile anything with any C compiler.

The CGI and MTA interface wrappers are written in C, but they're
really really simple (as anything security-critical should be).

It's not going to make any difference what they're compiled with.

From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Thu Jun 26 05:36:51 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:36:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,     mailman and ScriptAlias - not as
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c488aac65925@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <200806260336.m5Q3apAX002926@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Brad Knowles responded:

>Following our standard installation procedure works just fine for 
>Solaris 10.  I've done it.

Thanks, great news.

>Moreover, the Mailman code is written in Python, so there shouldn't 
>be any need to compile anything with any C compiler.

D'oh!

>If there was anything that needed to be compiled with a C compiler, I 
>would think that the Gnu C compiler would probably be a better choice 
>than the Sun compiler, but it shouldn't really make much of a 
>difference.  What differences there are would probably be more a 
>result of gmake versus Sun's version of make, as compared to the 
>compiler differences.

At work we use Sun Studio for compiling the Solaris 10 i386 version and
gcc to compile the Solaris 8 sparc version.  Both using gmake.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Thu Jun 26 05:39:19 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:39:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <18531.4123.213520.269917@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <200806260339.m5Q3dJZ2002951@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

>The CGI and MTA interface wrappers are written in C, but they're
>really really simple (as anything security-critical should be).
>
>It's not going to make any difference what they're compiled with.

I'll install the GNU C compiler tools.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 26 06:09:10 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:09:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
	mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented
In-Reply-To: <18531.4123.213520.269917@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062521091000002e8e8d0a@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Brad Knowles writes:
>
> > Moreover, the Mailman code is written in Python, so there shouldn't 
> > be any need to compile anything with any C compiler.
>
>The CGI and MTA interface wrappers are written in C, but they're
>really really simple (as anything security-critical should be).
>
>It's not going to make any difference what they're compiled with.


Those aren't the issue. ./configure and make handle them just fine.

The issue is the Korean and Japanese codecs which are set up by Python
distutils using I don't recall which compiler, but not necessarily the
one configure finds.

This is known to cause problems on Solaris which is the subject of
threads found by the
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Apython.org+inurl%3Amailman+solaris+korean>
search I posted earlier. In particular, see the thread starting at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-February/055640.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From taner at pardus.org.tr  Thu Jun 26 08:44:09 2008
From: taner at pardus.org.tr (Taner Tas)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:44:09 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The admin web interface is not saving my
 changesand keeps asking me to re-enter my password [FIXED]
In-Reply-To: <PC187020080625083411060968df71ac@msapiro>
References: <PC187020080625083411060968df71ac@msapiro>
Message-ID: <48633AB9.3050604@pardus.org.tr>

Hi Mark,

I can login into admin interface but i could not apply any settings on 
admin interface. When I try apply some changes on web interface, it 
redirects me to login page every time again and no settings were applied 
as i checked before.

After realizing the problem is related by Apache's environmental 
settings as described in FAQ 4.65 as you mentioned, then I did necessary 
settings for fix the the problem.

Thank you,
Taner Tas

Mark Sapiro wrote On 25-06-2008 18:34:
> Taner Tas wrote:
>
>   
>> I choose same title of Mailman FAQ 4.45 which describes my problem 
>> exactly. I checked every suggestion on this FAQ but no one seems 
>> suitable for fix my problem.
>>     
>
>
> Sorry for asking, but the FAQ itself is not clear. Do you get returned
> to a login screen with every attempt to make a change or visit another
> link? If so, the appropriate FAQs are 4.65
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/loA9> and 4.71 <http://wiki.list.org/x/moA9>.
>
> Have you tried from a different browser or from a different computer
> with a different internet connection? Sometimes these things are
> dependant on things like local firewalls.
>
>   


From kmcarthu at bates.edu  Thu Jun 26 16:31:13 2008
From: kmcarthu at bates.edu (Karen R McArthur)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:31:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] feature request
Message-ID: <4863A831.2020409@bates.edu>

Is there a way to add the web membership management module to the 
moderator without giving the moderator admin web access?

-- 
Karen R. McArthur <kmcarthu at bates.edu>
Systems Administrator
Information and Library Services, Bates College
Lewiston, Maine 04240 USA
ph:(207)786-8236   fax:(207)786-6057

If you find that everybody else is right and you're wrong,
it might just be that you're thinking outside the box. The
world is yet to catch up.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 26 17:03:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:03:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] feature request
In-Reply-To: <4863A831.2020409@bates.edu>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062608033501710becee8e@msapiro>

Karen R McArthur wrote:

>Is there a way to add the web membership management module to the 
>moderator without giving the moderator admin web access?


No.

To persue this as a feature request, see <http://wiki.list.org/x/RoBE>
(you could add to the "other notes" section).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffzemla at gmail.com  Thu Jun 26 17:05:04 2008
From: jeffzemla at gmail.com (jeff zemla)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:05:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list filtered as spam
In-Reply-To: <9992ac2d0806251127j75a57a5aj8eb64e7b9c3a9ee7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9992ac2d0806251127j75a57a5aj8eb64e7b9c3a9ee7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9992ac2d0806260805t4f36f8d7t1ac11c74b9b125b4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I tried searching the archives for a solution to my problem but couldn't
find anything.  My apologies if this has been answered 100 times before.

I bought a new domain through hostgator.com and they have Mailman installed
so I can set up a mailing list.  I've used mailman before through my
University and never had a problem with requests being filtered as spam.

Basically, when I try to add an e-mail account to the mailing list, it goes
into my Gmail spam box.  I don't know why this would happen, as my domain
has never been used for anything before, so no one could have possibly
reported it as spam.  The header is as follows:

from: artists-request at domain.com
to: invited at address.com
date: Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:16 PM
subject: Welcome to the "Artists" mailing list
mailing list: <artists_domain.com.>
mailed-by: domain.com

Where domain.com is my domain, artists is the name of the list, and
invited at address.com is the person I add to the list.

I have tried altering the content of the message, but nothing seems to work,
which leads me to believe it is being flagged as spam based on where it
originates from.  But seeing as the website has no content on it (just a
line of text that says "Things will be here shortly") i dont know why gmail
would have a preconceived notion that it's a spamming site.

Any ideas?

Thanks!
Jeff

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Jun 26 17:15:13 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:15:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list filtered as spam
In-Reply-To: <9992ac2d0806260805t4f36f8d7t1ac11c74b9b125b4@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <9992ac2d0806251127j75a57a5aj8eb64e7b9c3a9ee7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9992ac2d0806260805t4f36f8d7t1ac11c74b9b125b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200806261511.m5QFBao2006624@newbox.eroded.org>

jeff zemla sent the message below at 08:05 6/26/2008:
>Hi all,
>I tried searching the archives for a solution to my problem but couldn't
>find anything.  My apologies if this has been answered 100 times before.
>
>I bought a new domain through hostgator.com and they have Mailman installed
>so I can set up a mailing list.  I've used mailman before through my
>University and never had a problem with requests being filtered as spam.
>
>Basically, when I try to add an e-mail account to the mailing list, it goes
>into my Gmail spam box.  I don't know why this would happen, as my domain
>has never been used for anything before, so no one could have possibly
>reported it as spam.  The header is as follows:
>
>from: artists-request at domain.com
>to: invited at address.com
>date: Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:16 PM
>subject: Welcome to the "Artists" mailing list
>mailing list: <artists_domain.com.>
>mailed-by: domain.com
>
>Where domain.com is my domain, artists is the name of the list, and
>invited at address.com is the person I add to the list.
>
>I have tried altering the content of the message, but nothing seems to work,
>which leads me to believe it is being flagged as spam based on where it
>originates from.  But seeing as the website has no content on it (just a
>line of text that says "Things will be here shortly") i dont know why gmail
>would have a preconceived notion that it's a spamming site.
>
>Any ideas?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

It is quite possible that the ISP you are using has hosted domains 
that were a problem and gmail is filtering on the fact that your 
domain is hosted in their IP address block.

It is also quite possible that they are being quite draconian about 
the content of the message.

Either way, the only way you will know for certain what is happening 
is if you contact their technical support (if you can actually get an 
answer out of them, they may well ignore your request too).


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From vancleef at lostwells.net  Thu Jun 26 17:41:38 2008
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:41:38 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806251727560578c1c61f3a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806261541.m5QFfc3Q017963@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Mark Sapiro has said:
> 
> Vidiot wrote:
> >
> >Thanks for pointing this out.  I'll go away now and compile the source
> >when I get Sol10 working.  Speaking of that, do you suggest using GNU or
> >Sun Studio to compile the package?
> 
> 
> There are others on this list that can speak to Solaris installation
> about which I know almost nothing.
> 
> The results of
> <http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Apython.org+inurl%3Amailman+solaris+korean>
> may interest you.
> 

Installing Python and Mailman on Solaris is pretty straightforward.  I
have done several builds and installs on Solaris 9 and 10, using both
gcc and the Sun compiler.  The installs run with the Sun versions of
sendmail and bind included in the Solaris distribution.   

The choice of compilers primarily affects the Python build.  There is
very little C-language code in Mailman, as it is primarily a Python
application.  I am prejudiced toward using the Sun development system
in general, but haven't developed any solid rationale for using it in
preference to gcc for Python.  You will get a usable, but incomplete,
Python build using either compiler, and I have yet to do a Python
build that will pass all its tests.  As I recall, the Python that
builds without trying to fix any of the Python build script problems for
Solaris is adequate to support the Mailman application.

The PATH environment is critical, and you will have to set this up
properly with a .profile script in the root directory (for using root
to build) and in the /etc/profile script used by users.  My root PATH
reads:
julie:root:# echo $PATH
/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/etc:/opt/SUNWspro/bin:/usr/ccs/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/opt/sfw/bin:/usr/ucb

In particular, make sure the Mailman configure script finds your local
Python build, not the (older) version included in the Solaris
distribution.  This is the root of the "Korean Codec" problem that
Mark provided a google search link to.  Also make sure that the configure 
scripts find the cc or gcc that you intend to use.  Renaming the
/usr/ucb/cc stub to cc.bsd will help, but Solaris 10 includes a
version of gcc as well, which you may or may not want to use.  
If you want to use the Sun devsys, you'll have to force the configure
scripts not to use gcc with command line arguments.

I create and use the /usr/local directories.  Some System V purists
object to this.  Any objections I've seen are overcome by using a
separate partition for /usr/local.   

In general, follow the Mailman build and installation guide.  When
setting up the mailman account, I find it easiest to use the standard
useradd and then use vipw to configure the passwd and shadow files
correctly.  The shadow file line should read:
mailman:NP:::::::
Don't "disable" the account, as this will prevent cron from running
the cron scripts.  

The only "gimmick" specific to running Mailman with sendmail is to
include the alias pipes for Mailman in /etc/mail/aliases (and run
newaliases after changing the file).  

Hank

From brian at emwd.com  Thu Jun 26 17:21:27 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:21:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list filtered as spam
In-Reply-To: <9992ac2d0806260805t4f36f8d7t1ac11c74b9b125b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9992ac2d0806251127j75a57a5aj8eb64e7b9c3a9ee7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9992ac2d0806260805t4f36f8d7t1ac11c74b9b125b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <027f01c8d7a0$4f3d3650$edb7a2f0$@com>

> Hi all,
> I tried searching the archives for a solution to my problem but
> couldn't
> find anything.  My apologies if this has been answered 100 times
> before.
> 
> I bought a new domain through hostgator.com and they have Mailman
> installed
> so I can set up a mailing list.  I've used mailman before through my
> University and never had a problem with requests being filtered as
> spam.

You should contact Hostgator's tech support regarding this. What is the IP
address of your hosting account?

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Fri Jun 27 01:17:51 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:17:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806261541.m5QFfc3Q017963@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <200806262317.m5QNHpD0012675@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

>The only "gimmick" specific to running Mailman with sendmail is to
>include the alias pipes for Mailman in /etc/mail/aliases (and run
>newaliases after changing the file).  

Thanks for the info, but the last time I looked, aliases was in /etc,
not /etc/mail.

In any event, thanks for the info.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jun 27 02:21:33 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:21:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list filtered as spam
In-Reply-To: <9992ac2d0806260805t4f36f8d7t1ac11c74b9b125b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9992ac2d0806251127j75a57a5aj8eb64e7b9c3a9ee7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9992ac2d0806260805t4f36f8d7t1ac11c74b9b125b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4864328D.9040406@shub-internet.org>

jeff zemla wrote:

> I have tried altering the content of the message, but nothing seems to work,
> which leads me to believe it is being flagged as spam based on where it
> originates from.  But seeing as the website has no content on it (just a
> line of text that says "Things will be here shortly") i dont know why gmail
> would have a preconceived notion that it's a spamming site.

This is one problem with reputation-based systems for detecting potential 
spam.  You may have a nearby network neighbor that is responsible for 
generating a lot of spam (which seems likely, seeing as you say you bought 
the domain from hostgator.com).

Or, the IP address you were assigned may have been used by spammers before 
it was re-assigned to you.

There are a whole host of other reputational issues that you may be dealing 
with, but this should give you some idea.


Fixing a tarnished reputation is hard.  Very hard.  Spammers don't care, 
since they just move on to somewhere else.  But for the rest of us, it's a 
real pain.

In the case of the first problem mentioned above (guilt by association), 
you're probably being caught by a blacklist that covers whole networks of 
machines, and there may not be any way for you to get off these blacklists. 
  If you're on an IP-address specific blacklist, you may be able to get your 
provider to issue you a new address that is not blacklisted, or you may be 
able to get those blacklist owners to update their list to remove your address.

Another option would be to move your domain and services to another 
provider, one that is much less friendly to spammers, and avoids both of the 
problems mentioned above.


You could potentially sign up for service with a company like Habeas (for 
their "Safe List" service) or Return Path (for their "Sender Score 
Certified" service).  If you're a small non-profit, they'll charge you a 
one-time fee, examine how your systems are set up and that you meet all 
appropriate "best practices" requirements, and then that will be that.

If you're not a small non-profit, they'll do the same thing for you, but 
they'll charge you an annual fee.

Habeas has the better reputation in the business, but is more expensive. 
Both are supported out-of-the-box with SpamAssassin, so they'll not only 
help you with all of the other customers with whom they have existing 
contracts and use the Habeas "Safe List" as a whitelist for incoming e-mail, 
but will also help you with anyone who runs a relatively generic install of 
SpamAssassin.

Again, Habeas helps with sites running SpamAssassin more than Return Path, 
by improving your score by a full 8.0 points instead of just 4.0 points, and 
many sites run with 10.0 points being a guaranteed non-spam message, and 5.0 
being a probable non-spam message.

> Any ideas?

And way you look at it, it sounds like you've got a lot of work ahead of you.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at python.org  Fri Jun 27 02:26:30 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:26:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806261541.m5QFfc3Q017963@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200806261541.m5QFfc3Q017963@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <486433B6.6050504@python.org>

Hank van Cleef wrote:

> In particular, make sure the Mailman configure script finds your local
> Python build, not the (older) version included in the Solaris
> distribution.  This is the root of the "Korean Codec" problem that
> Mark provided a google search link to.

You can easily solve this during the installation by explicitly telling the 
code where to find your particular preferred version of Python.

I've seen this done on sites that had to maintain a half-dozen different 
versions of Python, because different programs were dependent on different 
versions, and it wasn't possible to get the client code updated so you had 
to keep multiple different versions of the language.

I think this is specified with something like:

	# make install --with-python=/path/to/your/local/python

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jun 27 02:57:23 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:57:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806262317.m5QNHpD0012675@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
References: <200806262317.m5QNHpD0012675@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <48643AF3.8090904@shub-internet.org>

Vidiot wrote:

> Thanks for the info, but the last time I looked, aliases was in /etc,
> not /etc/mail.

Depends on your platform.  For Solaris, the aliases have been in 
/etc/mail/aliases for a very, very long time.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From jeffzemla at gmail.com  Fri Jun 27 03:30:08 2008
From: jeffzemla at gmail.com (jeff zemla)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:30:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list filtered as spam
In-Reply-To: <4864328D.9040406@shub-internet.org>
References: <9992ac2d0806251127j75a57a5aj8eb64e7b9c3a9ee7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9992ac2d0806260805t4f36f8d7t1ac11c74b9b125b4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4864328D.9040406@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <9992ac2d0806261830k3823937ata43f037e8bfd07cf@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Brian and Brad.  Thankfully the solution was not so painful.  I
e-mail Hostgator, explained the situation, and asked if I could be moved to
a different server/ip address.

They got back to me quickly, saying:

"I have installed something called DomainKeys on your domains which helps
prevent free email services like yahoo and gmail from marking emails from a
domain as spam."

And he told me a few other things in case that didn't work.  But wouldn't
you know it, it worked perfectly!

So for anyone else on shared hosting who may run into this problem--tell
your host to install DomainKeys!

Thanks again guys!

Jeff



On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 8:21 PM, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
wrote:

> jeff zemla wrote:
>
>  I have tried altering the content of the message, but nothing seems to
>> work,
>> which leads me to believe it is being flagged as spam based on where it
>> originates from.  But seeing as the website has no content on it (just a
>> line of text that says "Things will be here shortly") i dont know why
>> gmail
>> would have a preconceived notion that it's a spamming site.
>>
>
> This is one problem with reputation-based systems for detecting potential
> spam.  You may have a nearby network neighbor that is responsible for
> generating a lot of spam (which seems likely, seeing as you say you bought
> the domain from hostgator.com).
>
> Or, the IP address you were assigned may have been used by spammers before
> it was re-assigned to you.
>
> There are a whole host of other reputational issues that you may be dealing
> with, but this should give you some idea.
>
>
> Fixing a tarnished reputation is hard.  Very hard.  Spammers don't care,
> since they just move on to somewhere else.  But for the rest of us, it's a
> real pain.
>
> In the case of the first problem mentioned above (guilt by association),
> you're probably being caught by a blacklist that covers whole networks of
> machines, and there may not be any way for you to get off these blacklists.
>  If you're on an IP-address specific blacklist, you may be able to get your
> provider to issue you a new address that is not blacklisted, or you may be
> able to get those blacklist owners to update their list to remove your
> address.
>
> Another option would be to move your domain and services to another
> provider, one that is much less friendly to spammers, and avoids both of the
> problems mentioned above.
>
>
> You could potentially sign up for service with a company like Habeas (for
> their "Safe List" service) or Return Path (for their "Sender Score
> Certified" service).  If you're a small non-profit, they'll charge you a
> one-time fee, examine how your systems are set up and that you meet all
> appropriate "best practices" requirements, and then that will be that.
>
> If you're not a small non-profit, they'll do the same thing for you, but
> they'll charge you an annual fee.
>
> Habeas has the better reputation in the business, but is more expensive.
> Both are supported out-of-the-box with SpamAssassin, so they'll not only
> help you with all of the other customers with whom they have existing
> contracts and use the Habeas "Safe List" as a whitelist for incoming e-mail,
> but will also help you with anyone who runs a relatively generic install of
> SpamAssassin.
>
> Again, Habeas helps with sites running SpamAssassin more than Return Path,
> by improving your score by a full 8.0 points instead of just 4.0 points, and
> many sites run with 10.0 points being a guaranteed non-spam message, and 5.0
> being a probable non-spam message.
>
>  Any ideas?
>>
>
> And way you look at it, it sounds like you've got a lot of work ahead of
> you.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jun 27 03:44:16 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:44:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list filtered as spam
In-Reply-To: <9992ac2d0806261830k3823937ata43f037e8bfd07cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9992ac2d0806251127j75a57a5aj8eb64e7b9c3a9ee7@mail.gmail.com>	
	<9992ac2d0806260805t4f36f8d7t1ac11c74b9b125b4@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4864328D.9040406@shub-internet.org>
	<9992ac2d0806261830k3823937ata43f037e8bfd07cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <486445F0.5020306@shub-internet.org>

jeff zemla wrote:

> So for anyone else on shared hosting who may run into this problem--tell
> your host to install DomainKeys!

DomainKeys, DKIM, SenderID, CallerID, and SPF pretty much all fall into the 
same bucket.

See my take on SPF at 
<http://bradknowles.typepad.com/considered_harmful/2004/05/spf.html>.  What 
was true when I wrote this in 2004 is still true today.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From jeffzemla at gmail.com  Fri Jun 27 03:57:58 2008
From: jeffzemla at gmail.com (jeff zemla)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:57:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list filtered as spam
In-Reply-To: <486445F0.5020306@shub-internet.org>
References: <9992ac2d0806251127j75a57a5aj8eb64e7b9c3a9ee7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9992ac2d0806260805t4f36f8d7t1ac11c74b9b125b4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4864328D.9040406@shub-internet.org>
	<9992ac2d0806261830k3823937ata43f037e8bfd07cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<486445F0.5020306@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <9992ac2d0806261857u277c2f02p425c465aa31632c9@mail.gmail.com>

Hmm I really don't know that much about this stuff.  Does this really affect
me?  I'm not looking for the "be all end all" of spam, as you say.  At
least, not spam at large.

Really, I have no problem sending e-mails from my domain because I do that
through Gmail.

The only time when my mail gets filtered as Spam is when I send out messages
on my announce-only mailing list.  So as long as it continues to keep my
announcements out of users' spam boxes, I'm happy.

Should I be worried?

Thanks,
Jeff



On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 9:44 PM, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
wrote:

> jeff zemla wrote:
>
>  So for anyone else on shared hosting who may run into this problem--tell
>> your host to install DomainKeys!
>>
>
> DomainKeys, DKIM, SenderID, CallerID, and SPF pretty much all fall into the
> same bucket.
>
> See my take on SPF at <
> http://bradknowles.typepad.com/considered_harmful/2004/05/spf.html>.  What
> was true when I wrote this in 2004 is still true today.
>
>
> --
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 27 05:01:28 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:01:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list filtered as spam
In-Reply-To: <9992ac2d0806261857u277c2f02p425c465aa31632c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806262001280036c0248dc0@msapiro>

jeff zemla wrote:

>Hmm I really don't know that much about this stuff.  Does this really affect
>me?  I'm not looking for the "be all end all" of spam, as you say.  At
>least, not spam at large.


Yes. It may well affect you.


>Really, I have no problem sending e-mails from my domain because I do that
>through Gmail.
>
>The only time when my mail gets filtered as Spam is when I send out messages
>on my announce-only mailing list.  So as long as it continues to keep my
>announcements out of users' spam boxes, I'm happy.
>
>Should I be worried?


The addition of DKIM or domain keys to your outbound list mail clearly
helps get your mail through to those direct recipients whose services
like gmail or yahoo check DKIM or domainkey signatures and treat mail
with valid signatures favorably.

Since yours is an announce only list, you don't have to worry about the
signatures on incoming mail being invalidated by things the list does
to the message.

The problem in your case is when someone at alumni.example.edu subscribes
to your list and alumni.example.edu, which is just a forwarding
service, forwards that mail to sombody at gmail.com, the signature may
now be invalid because the IP that the message came to gmail from is
that of alumni.example.com, not your IP that signed the mail or
because of other transformations to the message by the forwarding
service. Gmail may consider this to be worse than if the mail was
unsigned.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffzemla at gmail.com  Fri Jun 27 05:17:13 2008
From: jeffzemla at gmail.com (jeff zemla)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:17:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list filtered as spam
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806262001280036c0248dc0@msapiro>
References: <9992ac2d0806261857u277c2f02p425c465aa31632c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1870200806262001280036c0248dc0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9992ac2d0806262017x693ff1a3hae2efad97074c07d@mail.gmail.com>

Hmm...  My @rutgers.edu and @princeton.edu e-mail addresses both forward to
my Gmail and work fine.

But I do understand the issue now.  I guess I'll just have to see how it
goes...

Thank you for the heads up!

Jeff



On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 11:01 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> jeff zemla wrote:
>
> >Hmm I really don't know that much about this stuff.  Does this really
> affect
> >me?  I'm not looking for the "be all end all" of spam, as you say.  At
> >least, not spam at large.
>
>
> Yes. It may well affect you.
>
>
> >Really, I have no problem sending e-mails from my domain because I do that
> >through Gmail.
> >
> >The only time when my mail gets filtered as Spam is when I send out
> messages
> >on my announce-only mailing list.  So as long as it continues to keep my
> >announcements out of users' spam boxes, I'm happy.
> >
> >Should I be worried?
>
>
> The addition of DKIM or domain keys to your outbound list mail clearly
> helps get your mail through to those direct recipients whose services
> like gmail or yahoo check DKIM or domainkey signatures and treat mail
> with valid signatures favorably.
>
> Since yours is an announce only list, you don't have to worry about the
> signatures on incoming mail being invalidated by things the list does
> to the message.
>
> The problem in your case is when someone at alumni.example.edu subscribes
> to your list and alumni.example.edu, which is just a forwarding
> service, forwards that mail to sombody at gmail.com, the signature may
> now be invalid because the IP that the message came to gmail from is
> that of alumni.example.com, not your IP that signed the mail or
> because of other transformations to the message by the forwarding
> service. Gmail may consider this to be worse than if the mail was
> unsigned.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From adam.nielsen at uq.edu.au  Fri Jun 27 05:24:00 2008
From: adam.nielsen at uq.edu.au (Adam Nielsen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:24:00 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any way to disable wrapping of the subject header?
Message-ID: <48645D50.8050109@uq.edu.au>

Hi all,

Mailman seems to like wrapping the e-mail subject when it gets too long 
(78 chars I think.)  Because this causes problems with many common 
e-mail clients (Outlook, Thunderbird, etc.) is there any way to disable 
the wrap?

The problem is that after "folding" the line (as RFC822 puts it) Mailman 
uses a tab character to indent the line below.  The RFC states that the 
CRLF+whitespace combination should be replaced by just the whitespace 
character used - and since Mailman uses CRLF+tab, after unfolding we end 
up with a tab character in the middle of the e-mail subject.

Thunderbird displays this using ASCII encoding (so you get a little 
round circle in the middle of the subject) whereas Outlook displays 
nothing at all (so you get people pointing out that you forgot to put a 
space in between those words.)  Some MTAs seem to expand the tab into 
eight spaces, leaving a large gap in the middle of the subject instead.

You can see examples of these in the messages posted to the list 
yesterday, e.g. "Apache,<tab>mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented"

The easiest solution (for me) would be to just disable folding of that 
header, or alternatively to replace the tab with a space, so that e-mail 
clients display a single space as originally intended by the author 
instead of doing something funny with the tab character.

Does anyone know if there's a way to do this, or whereabouts in the code 
I should start looking?

Thanks,
Adam.

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Fri Jun 27 06:12:26 2008
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:12:26 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <48643AF3.8090904@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <200806270412.m5R4CRbh009696@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Brad Knowles has said:
> 
> Vidiot wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for the info, but the last time I looked, aliases was in /etc,
> > not /etc/mail.
> 
> Depends on your platform.  For Solaris, the aliases have been in 
> /etc/mail/aliases for a very, very long time.
> 
I gave the location of the actual aliases file in /etc/mail for
Solaris.  /etc/aliases is provided, but is a symlink to the file in
/etc/mail.

One real difference between Solaris 9 and Solaris 10 is that the
sendmail M4 file setup has been moved from /lib/mail to /etc/mail/cf.
In practise, I copy the distribution M4 files to /usr/local/mail and 
work from that copy.  

I will note, and think that Brad and Mark will agree, that given the
predominance of Linux and Postfix on Mailman hosts, there probably is
very little interest among list subscribers for discussion of general
Solaris and sendmail issues.  Both systems are well-supported on
Usenet news groups and sponsoring web sites.  

Hank



From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 27 06:33:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:33:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any way to disable wrapping of the subject
	header?
In-Reply-To: <48645D50.8050109@uq.edu.au>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062621335801768ad2e6aa@msapiro>

Adam Nielsen wrote:
>
>Mailman seems to like wrapping the e-mail subject when it gets too long 
>(78 chars I think.)  Because this causes problems with many common 
>e-mail clients (Outlook, Thunderbird, etc.) is there any way to disable 
>the wrap?


Not in Mailman. This is done in the underlying Python email library.


>The problem is that after "folding" the line (as RFC822 puts it) Mailman 
>uses a tab character to indent the line below.  The RFC states that the 
>CRLF+whitespace combination should be replaced by just the whitespace 
>character used - and since Mailman uses CRLF+tab, after unfolding we end 
>up with a tab character in the middle of the e-mail subject.
>
>Thunderbird displays this using ASCII encoding (so you get a little 
>round circle in the middle of the subject) whereas Outlook displays 
>nothing at all (so you get people pointing out that you forgot to put a 
>space in between those words.)  Some MTAs seem to expand the tab into 
>eight spaces, leaving a large gap in the middle of the subject instead.
>
>You can see examples of these in the messages posted to the list 
>yesterday, e.g. "Apache,<tab>mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented"


This has been discussed before on this and other lists and is being
discussed right now on email-sig at python.org (see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/email-sig/2008-June/thread.html>).


>The easiest solution (for me) would be to just disable folding of that 
>header, or alternatively to replace the tab with a space, so that e-mail 
>clients display a single space as originally intended by the author 
>instead of doing something funny with the tab character.
>
>Does anyone know if there's a way to do this, or whereabouts in the code 
>I should start looking?


Search for '\t' in Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py. Some (most)
occurrences can be replaced with ' '.

I think the only one that can't be changed is

    if len(lines) > 1 and lines[1] and lines[1][0] in ' \t':
        ws = lines[1][0]

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Fri Jun 27 06:37:30 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:37:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806270412.m5R4CRbh009696@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <200806270437.m5R4bVlg014442@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Hank posted:

>I gave the location of the actual aliases file in /etc/mail for
>Solaris.  /etc/aliases is provided, but is a symlink to the file in
>/etc/mail.

It is the symlink that I always use, same deal for the hosts file. :-)

>I will note, and think that Brad and Mark will agree, that given the
>predominance of Linux and Postfix on Mailman hosts, there probably is
>very little interest among list subscribers for discussion of general
>Solaris and sendmail issues.  Both systems are well-supported on
>Usenet news groups and sponsoring web sites.  

Is that a polite way of saying don't post Solaris mailman configuration
questions here?

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
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From adam.nielsen at uq.edu.au  Fri Jun 27 06:48:53 2008
From: adam.nielsen at uq.edu.au (Adam Nielsen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:48:53 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any way to disable wrapping of the subject
	header?
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008062621335801768ad2e6aa@msapiro>
References: <PC18702008062621335801768ad2e6aa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <48647135.4030808@uq.edu.au>

> This has been discussed before on this and other lists and is being
> discussed right now on email-sig at python.org (see
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/email-sig/2008-June/thread.html>).

Ah ok, that looks promising.  Sorry, I did Google around a fair bit but 
I guess I was using the wrong keywords...

>> Does anyone know if there's a way to do this, or whereabouts in the code 
>> I should start looking?
> 
> Search for '\t' in Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py. Some (most)
> occurrences can be replaced with ' '.
> 
> I think the only one that can't be changed is
> 
>     if len(lines) > 1 and lines[1] and lines[1][0] in ' \t':
>         ws = lines[1][0]
> 

Excellent, thanks for that!  I'll try it now.

Cheers,
Adam.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jun 27 05:32:08 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:32:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list filtered as spam
In-Reply-To: <9992ac2d0806261857u277c2f02p425c465aa31632c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9992ac2d0806251127j75a57a5aj8eb64e7b9c3a9ee7@mail.gmail.com>	
	<9992ac2d0806260805t4f36f8d7t1ac11c74b9b125b4@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4864328D.9040406@shub-internet.org>	
	<9992ac2d0806261830k3823937ata43f037e8bfd07cf@mail.gmail.com>	
	<486445F0.5020306@shub-internet.org>
	<9992ac2d0806261857u277c2f02p425c465aa31632c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c48a0e48ac17@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/26/08, jeff zemla wrote:

>  Really, I have no problem sending e-mails from my domain because I do
>  that through Gmail.

Keep in mind that spammers have hacked the CAPTCHAs for hotmail, 
yahoo, and gmail, and they are aggressively using these services to 
send out their spam.  About half of the traffic we see from Yahoo is 
actually spam coming from compromised or bogus accounts.

The situation with gmail is even worse -- not only in terms of 
numbers, but also in terms of what they're being used for. 
Unfortunately, a disproportionate amount of phishing comes from gmail.

So, while we might exempt Yahoo from our reputation-based filtering 
and filter their messages based on content only, we are much more 
loathe to do that for Gmail, because phishing is so much harder to 
detect.


Note that this is for my current employer, one of the largest public 
research universties in the world, with ~50,000 students and ~20,000 
faculty and staff, and we run the anti-spam filtering for pretty much 
the entire campus through our Ironport e-mail security appliances.

We're throwing away ~97% of all inbound e-mail as almost certainly 
being "spam", with about another ~1% being filtered out due to 
content.  That leaves millions of messages a day that make it through 
the system, and yahoo and gmail are, by far, our biggest 
correspondent sites.

Now imagine what would happen if we were forced to exempt gmail from 
our reputation filtering.



So, are you directly affected by any of this?  Maybe, maybe not.

Are you likely to get caught up and washed away in the spam flood of 
biblical proportions, in part due to your choice in providers?  Yes.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jun 27 08:42:13 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:42:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806270412.m5R4CRbh009696@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200806270412.m5R4CRbh009696@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <p06240804c48a3bd358d1@[192.168.1.199]>

On 6/26/08, Hank van Cleef wrote:

>  I will note, and think that Brad and Mark will agree, that given the
>  predominance of Linux and Postfix on Mailman hosts, there probably is
>  very little interest among list subscribers for discussion of general
>  Solaris and sendmail issues.  Both systems are well-supported on
>  Usenet news groups and sponsoring web sites.

Actually, I'm not opposed to the discussion of Solaris-specific 
issues as they relate to Mailman, and sendmail-specific issues as 
they relate to Mailman belong on this list as much as postfix or 
Exim-specific issues -- as they relate to Mailman.

So long as we keep the discussions related to Mailman, there 
shouldn't be a problem.


Now, general discussions on what is different on what version of 
Solaris, that's something that I would agree belongs elsewhere.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From dony1985.0729 at yahoo.co.id  Fri Jun 27 12:27:00 2008
From: dony1985.0729 at yahoo.co.id (Dony Tata)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:27:00 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain
Message-ID: <924018.56057.qm@web76102.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>

how to configure virtual domain in postfix + mailman? in my mm_cfg.py i configure like this
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['doma.ac.id','domb.ac.id']
in postfix/main.cf, configure like this 
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases


i have sucsess create new mailing list "abc at doma.ac.id " i have sucsess subscribe member,but if  a member  send  mail to  abc at doma.ac.id, i have got error 
<abd at doma.ac.id>"Host or domain name not found. Name service error for name=doma.ac.id type=A: Host not found>


      ___________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! sekarang memiliki alamat Email baru.
Dapatkan nama yang selalu Anda inginkan di domain baru @ymail dan @rocketmail. 
Cepat sebelum diambil orang lain!
http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/id/

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Fri Jun 27 14:47:35 2008
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:47:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain
In-Reply-To: <924018.56057.qm@web76102.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>
References: <924018.56057.qm@web76102.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <444BA21E-9796-4C53-A84E-AFA580AA0836@goldmark.org>

[mailed and posted]

On Jun 27, 2008, at 5:27 AM, Dony Tata wrote:

> i have sucsess create new mailing list "abc at doma.ac.id " i have  
> sucsess subscribe member,but if  a member  send  mail to  abc at doma.ac.id 
> , i have got error
> <abd at doma.ac.id>"Host or domain name not found. Name service error  
> for name=doma.ac.id type=A: Host not found>

This sounds like the problem is not with the mailman configuration at  
all, but that DNS is not set up properly for doma.ac.id to receive  
mail.  Can mail be sent to non-list addresses at doma.ac.id?

Cheers,

-j


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 27 16:42:05 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:42:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain
In-Reply-To: <924018.56057.qm@web76102.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806270742050718cce8e1d3@msapiro>

Dony Tata wrote:

>how to configure virtual domain in postfix + mailman? in my mm_cfg.py i configure like this
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['doma.ac.id','domb.ac.id']
>in postfix/main.cf, configure like this 
>virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
>alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases


It's not a fatal mistake, but normally, you want
"hash:/etc/mailman/aliases" only in alias_maps and not in
alias_database. This is because Mailman runs postalias to update its
aliases.db whenever Mailman changes its aliases, so you don't need to
have Postfix do it whenever newaliases is run.


>i have sucsess create new mailing list "abc at doma.ac.id " i have sucsess subscribe member,but if  a member  send  mail to  abc at doma.ac.id, i have got error 
><abd at doma.ac.id>"Host or domain name not found. Name service error for name=doma.ac.id type=A: Host not found>


As pointed out in another reply, this is a DNS issue. The sending MTA
does not know where to deliver mail for the dom.ac.id domain because
it has no MX or A record in DNS.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Fri Jun 27 16:58:24 2008
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:58:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain
In-Reply-To: <437200.24578.qm@web76115.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>
References: <437200.24578.qm@web76115.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <224F89BA-762C-43F1-B269-1F28B3460011@goldmark.org>

On Jun 27, 2008, at 9:25 AM, Dony Tata wrote:

> I don't include doma.ac.id in DNS, must i include doma.ac.id in DNS?  
> doma.ac.id is virtual domain in server xxx.mod..ac.id.....

If you want to people or other machines to be able to mail to  
@doma.ac.id, then there will need to be an MX record in DNS for  
doma.ac.id.  The MX record can point to your server.

I strongly recommend that work with someone at your university who is  
familiar with SMTP and DNS.  You need to have some understanding of  
each to set up mailman and virtual domains.

Cheers,

-j


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Sun Jun 29 09:12:48 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:12:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install failure
Message-ID: <200806290712.m5T7Cmlg004934@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

OK, the Solaris 10 box is operational, in that root is the only user and I'm
getting things up and running.  While my user account exists, none of my
personal stuff is there yet, as it is in a state of flux.  Once I bring the
system on line, then I copy over all the home directory files, etc.

In the meantime, I'm getting programs like mailman up and running.  I've
already replaced sendmail with exim, even getting it hooked into Solaris 10
smf control.

Based on the previous discussion, I've replaced the stock python 2.4.4 on the
box with a freshly compiled and installed 2.5.2 version.

The configure script runs without error, as does the initial make.  BTW,
the install manual has an error:

	Page 4:	% cd mailman-<version>
		% ./configure
		% make install

The "make install" should be just "make".  Gotta make it before you can
install it. :-)

In any event, the following error occurs when trying to install:

    (cd ./$p ; umask 02 ; PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib /usr/local/bin/python setup.py --quiet install --install-lib /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-purelib /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-data /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib); \
done
/usr/local/lib/python2.5/distutils/dist.py:247: UserWarning: 'licence' distribution option is deprecated; use 'license'
  warnings.warn(msg)
src/hangul.c:33: error: syntax error before numeric constant
src/hangul.c:34: error: syntax error before numeric constant
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
Current working directory /usr/local/src/mailman-2.1.11rc2/misc
*** Error code 1
The following command caused the error:
for d in bin cron misc Mailman scripts src templates messages tests; \
do \
    (cd $d; make DESTDIR= install); \
done
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'


MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
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[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 29 16:25:16 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:25:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install failure
In-Reply-To: <200806290712.m5T7Cmlg004934@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020080629072516076574b0438d@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:
>
>The configure script runs without error, as does the initial make.  BTW,
>the install manual has an error:
>
>	Page 4:	% cd mailman-<version>
>		% ./configure
>		% make install
>
>The "make install" should be just "make".  Gotta make it before you can
>install it. :-)


'make install' is sufficient. It will do the necessary 'make' actions.


>In any event, the following error occurs when trying to install:
>
>    (cd ./$p ; umask 02 ; PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib /usr/local/bin/python setup.py --quiet install --install-lib /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-purelib /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-data /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib); \
>done
>/usr/local/lib/python2.5/distutils/dist.py:247: UserWarning: 'licence' distribution option is deprecated; use 'license'
>  warnings.warn(msg)
>src/hangul.c:33: error: syntax error before numeric constant
>src/hangul.c:34: error: syntax error before numeric constant
>error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
>*** Error code 1
>make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
>Current working directory /usr/local/src/mailman-2.1.11rc2/misc
>*** Error code 1
>The following command caused the error:
>for d in bin cron misc Mailman scripts src templates messages tests; \
>do \
>    (cd $d; make DESTDIR= install); \
>done
>make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'


See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-June/062269.html>
and
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-June/062275.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Sun Jun 29 18:09:05 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:09:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install failure
In-Reply-To: <PC187020080629072516076574b0438d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806291609.m5TG96OI024077@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark Sapiro:

>'make install' is sufficient. It will do the necessary 'make' actions.

It didn't for me.  It didn't do any of the python stuff until I ran just make.

>See
><http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-June/062269.html>
>and
><http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-June/062275.html>.

Is this the same stuff you pointed to before?  If so, then I misread it.
I didn't think it gave a compile error, but did something else wrong.

I'll go back and read the previous e-mails about this.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
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From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Sun Jun 29 19:32:36 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:32:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806261541.m5QFfc3Q017963@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <200806291732.m5THWaZs024718@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Hank posted:

>In particular, make sure the Mailman configure script finds your local
>Python build, not the (older) version included in the Solaris
>distribution.  This is the root of the "Korean Codec" problem that
>Mark provided a google search link to.  Also make sure that the configure 
>scripts find the cc or gcc that you intend to use.  Renaming the
>/usr/ucb/cc stub to cc.bsd will help, but Solaris 10 includes a
>version of gcc as well, which you may or may not want to use.  
>If you want to use the Sun devsys, you'll have to force the configure
>scripts not to use gcc with command line arguments.

Here is where I misunderstood.  I thought by going to python 2.5.2, i.e.,
newer than 2.4.4, the "Korean Codec" problem would be resolved.  It 
obviously wasn't.

Didn't have to rename the BSD cc, as configure found gcc just fine.

Now to go "fix" the codec problem.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Sun Jun 29 19:50:12 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:50:12 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806261541.m5QFfc3Q017963@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <200806291750.m5THoCmc024846@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

I'm not sure that everyone looked at the posting that I did very clearly.
The error I posted is totally different that the error discussed in this
posting:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-February/055640.html

That was a result of the install "finding" the Sun installed python.  That is
not my problem.  To wit, here is the python greps out of the configure log:

	configure:1311: checking for --with-python
	configure:1330: checking for python
	configure:1348: found /usr/local/bin/python
	configure:1361: result: /usr/local/bin/python
	configure:1370: checking Python interpreter
	configure:1388: result: /usr/local/bin/python
	configure:1393: checking Python version
	configure:1434: checking that Python has a working distutils
	ac_cv_path_with_python=/usr/local/bin/python
	PYTHON='/usr/local/bin/python'
	with_python='/usr/local/bin/python'

As can be seen, the local version was found in all cases.

Take a look at the make output again:

    (cd ./$p ; umask 02 ; PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib /usr/local/bin/python setup.py --quiet install --install-lib /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-purelib /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-data /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib); \
done
/usr/local/lib/python2.5/distutils/dist.py:247: UserWarning: 'licence' distribution option is deprecated; use 'license'
  warnings.warn(msg)
src/hangul.c:33: error: syntax error before numeric constant
src/hangul.c:34: error: syntax error before numeric constant
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
Current working directory /usr/local/src/mailman-2.1.11rc2/misc

Notice that the correct python is being used.  It isn't python that is bailing,
it is gcc.

This failure is NOT the same.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
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From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 29 19:57:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:57:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install failure
In-Reply-To: <200806291609.m5TG96OI024077@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806291057550937c56970a0@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:

>Mark Sapiro:
>
>>'make install' is sufficient. It will do the necessary 'make' actions.
>
>It didn't for me.  It didn't do any of the python stuff until I ran just make.


What Python stuff didn't it do that needed to be done. All a straight
'make' does is compile all the wrappers and compile the various
mailman.po message catalogs into mailman.mo files.

Almost all the Makefiles have null all: targets. The only ones that
don't are those that run make in subdirectories and the ones in src/
and messages/, and those two run the all: target as part of the
install: target.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Sun Jun 29 20:06:22 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:06:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install failure
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806291057550937c56970a0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806291806.m5TI6NkB024960@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark posted:

>What Python stuff didn't it do that needed to be done. All a straight
>'make' does is compile all the wrappers and compile the various
>mailman.po message catalogs into mailman.mo files.

I wiped out the directory and started over.  Here is what the make install did:


Creating architecture independent directories...
chmod o-r /usr/local/mailman/archives/private
Creating architecture dependent directories...
for f in mmsitepass newlist rmlist add_members  list_members remove_members clone_member update arch  sync_members check_db withlist check_perms find_member  version config_list list_lists dumpdb cleanarch  list_admins genaliases change_pw mailmanctl qrunner inject  unshunt fix_url.py convert.py transcheck b4b5-archfix  list_owners msgfmt.py show_qfiles discard rb-archfix  reset_pw.py export.py; \
do \
    .././install-sh -c -m 755 ../build/bin/$f /usr/local/mailman/bin; \
done
for f in crontab.in; \
do \
    .././install-sh -c -m 644 $f /usr/local/mailman/cron; \
done
for f in checkdbs mailpasswds senddigests gate_news  nightly_gzip bumpdigests disabled cull_bad_shunt; \
do \
    .././install-sh -c -m 755 ../build/cron/$f /usr/local/mailman/cron; \
done
for i in ./*.jpg ./*.png; \
do \
  .././install-sh -c -m 644 $i /usr/local/mailman/icons; \
done
for d in bin cron scripts tests; \
do \
    dir=/usr/local/mailman/$d; \
    .././install-sh -c -m 644 paths.py $dir; \
done
.././install-sh -c -m 755 mailman /usr/local/mailman/scripts
.././install-sh -c -m 644 sitelist.cfg /usr/local/mailman/data
for p in email-2.5.8 JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11 KoreanCodecs-2.0.5; \
do \
    gunzip -c ./$p.tar.gz | (cd . ; tar xf -); \
    (cd ./$p ; umask 02 ; PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib /usr/local/bin/python setup.py --quiet install --install-lib /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-purelib /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-data /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib); \
done
/usr/local/lib/python2.5/distutils/dist.py:247: UserWarning: 'licence' distribution option is deprecated; use 'license'
  warnings.warn(msg)
src/hangul.c:33: error: syntax error before numeric constant
src/hangul.c:34: error: syntax error before numeric constant
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
Current working directory /usr/local/src/mailman-2.1.11rc2/misc
*** Error code 1
The following command caused the error:
for d in bin cron misc Mailman scripts src templates messages tests; \
do \
    (cd $d; make DESTDIR= install); \
done
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'


Notice the complete lack of anything to do with python compiling.

Again I started over and then did only a make:


for d in bin cron misc Mailman scripts src templates messages tests; \
do \
    (cd $d; make); \
done
for d in Cgi Logging Archiver Handlers Bouncers Queue MTA Gui Commands; \
do \
    (cd $d; make); \
done
gcc -c -I. -DPREFIX="\"/usr/local/mailman\""  -DPYTHON="\"/usr/local/bin/python\""  -DHELPFUL -g -O2 -g -O2 -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"\" -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\" -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1  ./common.c
gcc -c -I. -DPREFIX="\"/usr/local/mailman\""  -DPYTHON="\"/usr/local/bin/python\""  -DHELPFUL -g -O2 -g -O2 -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"\" -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\" -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1  ./vsnprintf.c
gcc -DSCRIPT="\"admindb\"" -I. -DCGI_GROUP="\"nobody\"" -g -O2 -g -O2 -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"\" -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\" -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1  common.o vsnprintf.o -o admindb ./cgi-wrapper.c
gcc -DSCRIPT="\"admin\"" -I. -DCGI_GROUP="\"nobody\"" -g -O2 -g -O2 -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"\" -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\" -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1  common.o vsnprintf.o -o admin ./cgi-wrapper.c
gcc -DSCRIPT="\"confirm\"" -I. -DCGI_GROUP="\"nobody\"" -g -O2 -g -O2 -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"\" -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\" -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1  common.o vsnprintf.o -o confirm ./cgi-wrapper.c
gcc -DSCRIPT="\"create\"" -I. -DCGI_GROUP="\"nobody\"" -g -O2 -g -O2 -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"\" -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\" -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1  common.o vsnprintf.o -o create ./cgi-wrapper.c
gcc -DSCRIPT="\"edithtml\"" -I. -DCGI_GROUP="\"nobody\"" -g -O2 -g -O2 -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"\" -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\" -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1  common.o vsnprintf.o -o edithtml ./cgi-wrapper.c
gcc -DSCRIPT="\"listinfo\"" -I. -DCGI_GROUP="\"nobody\"" -g -O2 -g -O2 -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"\" -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\" -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1  common.o vsnprintf.o -o listinfo ./cgi-wrapper.c
gcc -DSCRIPT="\"options\"" -I. -DCGI_GROUP="\"nobody\"" -g -O2 -g -O2 -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"\" -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\" -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1  common.o vsnprintf.o -o options ./cgi-wrapper.c
gcc -DSCRIPT="\"private\"" -I. -DCGI_GROUP="\"nobody\"" -g -O2 -g -O2 -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"\" -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\" -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1  common.o vsnprintf.o -o private ./cgi-wrapper.c
gcc -DSCRIPT="\"rmlist\"" -I. -DCGI_GROUP="\"nobody\"" -g -O2 -g -O2 -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"\" -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\" -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1  common.o vsnprintf.o -o rmlist ./cgi-wrapper.c
gcc -DSCRIPT="\"roster\"" -I. -DCGI_GROUP="\"nobody\"" -g -O2 -g -O2 -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"\" -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\" -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1  common.o vsnprintf.o -o roster ./cgi-wrapper.c
gcc -DSCRIPT="\"subscribe\"" -I. -DCGI_GROUP="\"nobody\"" -g -O2 -g -O2 -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"\" -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\" -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1  common.o vsnprintf.o -o subscribe ./cgi-wrapper.c
gcc -I. -DMAIL_GROUP="\"mailman\"" -g -O2 -g -O2 -DPACKAGE_NAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"\" -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"\" -DPACKAGE_STRING=\"\" -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\" -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1  common.o vsnprintf.o -o mailman ./mail-wrapper.c
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o ar/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo ar/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o ca/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo ca/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o cs/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo cs/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o da/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo da/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o de/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo de/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o es/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo es/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o et/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo et/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o eu/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo eu/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o fi/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo fi/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o fr/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo fr/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o gl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo gl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o he/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo he/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o hr/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo hr/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o hu/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo hu/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o ia/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo ia/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o it/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo it/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o ja/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo ja/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o ko/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo ko/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o lt/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo lt/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o nl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo nl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o no/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo no/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o pl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo pl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o pt/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo pt/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o pt_BR/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo pt_BR/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o ro/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo ro/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o ru/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo ru/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o sk/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo sk/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o sl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo sl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o sr/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo sr/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o sv/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo sv/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o tr/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo tr/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o uk/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo uk/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o vi/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo vi/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o zh_CN/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo zh_CN/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
/usr/local/bin/python ../build/bin/msgfmt.py -o zh_TW/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo zh_TW/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po


Notice the MASSIVE difference as to what was done.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
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From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 29 20:14:15 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:14:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806291750.m5THoCmc024846@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806291114150578165b0691@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:

>I'm not sure that everyone looked at the posting that I did very clearly.
>The error I posted is totally different that the error discussed in this
>posting:
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-February/055640.html
>
>That was a result of the install "finding" the Sun installed python.  That is
>not my problem.  To wit, here is the python greps out of the configure log:
>
>	configure:1311: checking for --with-python
>	configure:1330: checking for python
>	configure:1348: found /usr/local/bin/python
>	configure:1361: result: /usr/local/bin/python
>	configure:1370: checking Python interpreter
>	configure:1388: result: /usr/local/bin/python
>	configure:1393: checking Python version
>	configure:1434: checking that Python has a working distutils
>	ac_cv_path_with_python=/usr/local/bin/python
>	PYTHON='/usr/local/bin/python'
>	with_python='/usr/local/bin/python'
>
>As can be seen, the local version was found in all cases.
>
>Take a look at the make output again:
>
>    (cd ./$p ; umask 02 ; PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib /usr/local/bin/python setup.py --quiet install --install-lib /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-purelib /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-data /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib); \
>done
>/usr/local/lib/python2.5/distutils/dist.py:247: UserWarning: 'licence' distribution option is deprecated; use 'license'
>  warnings.warn(msg)
>src/hangul.c:33: error: syntax error before numeric constant
>src/hangul.c:34: error: syntax error before numeric constant
>error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
>*** Error code 1
>make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
>Current working directory /usr/local/src/mailman-2.1.11rc2/misc
>
>Notice that the correct python is being used.  It isn't python that is bailing,
>it is gcc.


The Korean and Japanese codecs are installed by Python distutils using
a setup.py built somewhere else. It doesn't get everything from
configure.

Your problem is the hangul.c file that is not compiling contains

#include "Python.h"

(and Python.h inturn includes a bunch of other stuff)

gcc is not finding this header file. That is the underlying cause of
the compile error.

Yes, the error in your case is different, because in your case the
compile is finding a working compiler, but the root problem is the
same.

I confess, I don't fully understand the details, but Hank appears to
and he says the issue is with the order of things on your PATH.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 29 20:24:26 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:24:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install failure
In-Reply-To: <200806291806.m5TI6NkB024960@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806291124260968cd6624e2@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:

>Mark posted:
>
>>What Python stuff didn't it do that needed to be done. All a straight
>>'make' does is compile all the wrappers and compile the various
>>mailman.po message catalogs into mailman.mo files.
>
>I wiped out the directory and started over.  Here is what the make install did:

[...]
>The following command caused the error:
>for d in bin cron misc Mailman scripts src templates messages tests; \
>do \
>    (cd $d; make DESTDIR= install); \
>done
>make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'

Note the list of subdirectories in "for d in ...".

The error occurs in the 'misc' directory. The stuff that doesn't get
done is in the 'src' and 'messages' directories that it never got to.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Sun Jun 29 20:30:00 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:30:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806291114150578165b0691@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806291830.m5TIU19u025123@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark posted:

>Your problem is the hangul.c file that is not compiling contains
>
>#include "Python.h"
>
>I confess, I don't fully understand the details, but Hank appears to
>and he says the issue is with the order of things on your PATH.

The finding of header files and the PATH environment are mutually exclusive.
Compilers do not use PATH for finding header files.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
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From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 29 21:00:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:00:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806291830.m5TIU19u025123@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020080629120003042182d6e768@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:
>
>The finding of header files and the PATH environment are mutually exclusive.
>Compilers do not use PATH for finding header files.


I understand that. It is more subtle than that. It has to do with the
Python version that runs the Setup.py for the Korean codecs.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Sun Jun 29 21:14:31 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:14:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <PC187020080629120003042182d6e768@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806291914.m5TJEVwM025391@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark responded:

>I understand that. It is more subtle than that. It has to do with the
>Python version that runs the Setup.py for the Korean codecs.

It is getting me really pissed off.

As far as I can tell, it is running the 2.5.2 version of Python.

I tried --includedir with configure.  Didn't help.
I tried changing the "Python.h" to <Python.h>.  Didn't help.
I tried adding the -I to the Korean directory Makefile CFLAGS.  Didn't help.
With the above Makefile change, I tried changing the "Python.h" to <Python.h>.
Didn't help.

Why are the actual gcc command lines not visible in the make output?  I'm
used to seeing the actual command lines so that debugging of a problem is
made a little easier.

Is there any way to not use the Korean/Japanese stuff and still get mailman
to work?

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
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From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Sun Jun 29 21:22:17 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:22:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806291114150578165b0691@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806291922.m5TJMHTx025469@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark responded:

>The Korean and Japanese codecs are installed by Python distutils using
>a setup.py built somewhere else. It doesn't get everything from
>configure.

Crap, all of the modifications that I tried doing were worthless, since
the damn thing keeps installing the tarball, no matter what, wiping out
any local changes.

Just how is someone supposed to fix this?

MB
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From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 29 21:54:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:54:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806291922.m5TJMHTx025469@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062912541707813691c75e@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:

>Mark responded:
>
>>The Korean and Japanese codecs are installed by Python distutils using
>>a setup.py built somewhere else. It doesn't get everything from
>>configure.
>
>Crap, all of the modifications that I tried doing were worthless, since
>the damn thing keeps installing the tarball, no matter what, wiping out
>any local changes.
>
>Just how is someone supposed to fix this?



This is not new. I tried to warn you.
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl%3Amailman+solaris+korean>.

I think Hank knows how to make it work, but I don't off hand.

If you are going to be running Mailman with Python 2.5+, you don't need
the Japanese and Korean codecs anyway because they're built in, so
edit the misc/Makefile. Change

PACKAGES= $(EMAILPKG) $(JACODECSPKG) $(KOCODECSPKG)

to

PACKAGES= $(EMAILPKG)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Sun Jun 29 22:01:42 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:01:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008062912541707813691c75e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806292001.m5TK1gNa025886@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark responded:

>This is not new. I tried to warn you.
><http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl%3Amailman+solaris+korean>.

Yep, you did :-)

>If you are going to be running Mailman with Python 2.5+, you don't need
>the Japanese and Korean codecs anyway because they're built in, so
>edit the misc/Makefile. Change
>
>PACKAGES= $(EMAILPKG) $(JACODECSPKG) $(KOCODECSPKG)
>
>to
>
>PACKAGES= $(EMAILPKG)

That is what I thought I read, which is why I changed to 2.5.2, thinking
that mailman would install accordingly.  Bad thinking on my part.

Any chance this will be incorporated into future mailman configure detection
runs so that this will work cleanly?

MB
-- 
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From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Sun Jun 29 22:12:18 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:12:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008062912541707813691c75e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806292012.m5TKCIUm026002@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark responded:

>PACKAGES= $(EMAILPKG)

OK, did that.  Gets past that now.  But:

[...]
Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
sh: bin/update: not found
*** Error code 1
The following command caused the error:
(cd /usr/local/mailman ; test -n "" || bin/update)
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `update'


The update script exists in the mailman directory I am doing the make and
in the /usr/local/mailman/bin directory.

Just in case, because of all the issues, I cleaned out /usr/local/mailman
and reran "make install."  No diff.  Stills dies at the same location.

MB
-- 
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From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 29 22:13:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:13:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806292001.m5TK1gNa025886@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806291313240953ed9ce4d1@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:
>
>That is what I thought I read, which is why I changed to 2.5.2, thinking
>that mailman would install accordingly.  Bad thinking on my part.
>
>Any chance this will be incorporated into future mailman configure detection
>runs so that this will work cleanly?


Probably not in the 2.1 branch. 3.0 will require Python 2.5 minimum and
won't try to install these codecs at all.

I'll try to do something with configure for Mailman 2.2.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 29 22:25:00 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:25:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806292012.m5TKCIUm026002@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806291325000281cbd9b7d9@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:
>
>OK, did that.  Gets past that now.  But:
>
>[...]
>Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
>sh: bin/update: not found
>*** Error code 1
>The following command caused the error:
>(cd /usr/local/mailman ; test -n "" || bin/update)
>make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `update'
>
>
>The update script exists in the mailman directory I am doing the make and
>in the /usr/local/mailman/bin directory.
>
>Just in case, because of all the issues, I cleaned out /usr/local/mailman
>and reran "make install."  No diff.  Stills dies at the same location.


I think that's my fault. I just fixed it for Mailman 2.1.11. (I broke
it for 2.1.11rc1.)

The problem is the bin/update in the tarball is 'pre-configured' with

#! /usr/bin/python

If that isn't where your python is, it doesn't work.

Fix the shebang line in bin/update in the installed tree and run it by
hand. It is the very last step in 'make install', so then you're done.

In fact, if this is a new installation with no existing lists, you're
already done.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Sun Jun 29 23:09:17 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:09:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806291313240953ed9ce4d1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806292109.m5TL9I1T026373@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark Sapiro responded:

>Probably not in the 2.1 branch. 3.0 will require Python 2.5 minimum and
>won't try to install these codecs at all.
>
>I'll try to do something with configure for Mailman 2.2.

Thanks, it will be appreciated.

MB
-- 
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From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Sun Jun 29 23:20:29 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:20:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806291325000281cbd9b7d9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806292120.m5TLKTKK026464@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark Sapiro responded:

>I think that's my fault. I just fixed it for Mailman 2.1.11. (I broke
>it for 2.1.11rc1.)

Whew!  It wasn't something I did this time. :-)

I'm confused.  I installed mailman-2.1.11rc2.tgz.  Mailman 2.1.11 isn't
available yet?

>The problem is the bin/update in the tarball is 'pre-configured' with
>
>#! /usr/bin/python
>
>If that isn't where your python is, it doesn't work.

It isn't :-)

>In fact, if this is a new installation with no existing lists, you're
>already done.

Yep new.  OK, I'll consider it done and move on the in the installation
process.

MB
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From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun 29 23:39:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:39:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806292120.m5TLKTKK026464@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806291439080734b07fbbe6@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:
>
>I'm confused.  I installed mailman-2.1.11rc2.tgz.  Mailman 2.1.11 isn't
>available yet?

No. 2.1.11rc2 is the latest released, but I'm in the process of
packaging the final 2.1.11 for release tomorrow.

When I said I just fixed it for 2.1.11, I meant the final.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Mon Jun 30 00:58:49 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:58:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806291439080734b07fbbe6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806292258.m5TMwnn9027034@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark Sapiro responded:

>No. 2.1.11rc2 is the latest released, but I'm in the process of
>packaging the final 2.1.11 for release tomorrow.
>
>When I said I just fixed it for 2.1.11, I meant the final.

I kinda wondered about that.

Before you go too far, look at the exim STMP callback code example.
There are two {yes}{no}} lines in each section (warn and accept).  exim
doesn't like that when doing the exim -bt test.

MB
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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 30 01:49:28 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:49:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806292258.m5TMwnn9027034@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062916492807814ea270e9@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:
>
>Before you go too far, look at the exim STMP callback code example.
>There are two {yes}{no}} lines in each section (warn and accept).  exim
>doesn't like that when doing the exim -bt test.


Thanks. I've fixed that and also a couple of omissions in the router. I
suggest you see <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html> which tends
to be more complete than the Exim section of the installation manual.
Also see <http://wiki.list.org/x/OYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Mon Jun 30 03:01:22 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:01:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008062916492807814ea270e9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806300101.m5U11MQ2027603@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark Sapiro responded:

>I suggest you see <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html> which tends
>to be more complete than the Exim section of the installation manual.

OK, confusion reigns.  The installation manual says MAILMAN_HOME, etc,
while the web page says MM_HOME, etc.

Which one is correct?

MB
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From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Mon Jun 30 03:13:28 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:13:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008062916492807814ea270e9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806300113.m5U1DSN8027664@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Confusion no longer reigns.  Silly me, not thinking about the variables being
expanded later on in the exim config file.

It would be nice though if the two documents matched in their macro-naming,
to help reduce confusion and possibly misconfiguration.

MB
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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 30 03:58:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:58:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806300113.m5U1DSN8027664@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062918583409218debf17b@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:
>
>It would be nice though if the two documents matched in their macro-naming,
>to help reduce confusion and possibly misconfiguration.


It's been on my list for a long time. Obviously, I still haven't gotten
to it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Mon Jun 30 04:30:53 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:30:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008062918583409218debf17b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806300230.m5U2UrH3028095@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark Sapiro:

Crap, I think I sent the last response just to you and not you and the list.
I tend to forget to group reply.  I personally prefer mail lists to respond
to the list e-mail address and not the poster.

>It's been on my list for a long time. Obviously, I still haven't gotten
>to it.

My list is bigger than your list :-) :-) :-)

MB
-- 
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From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Mon Jun 30 04:44:21 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:44:21 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist list creation error
Message-ID: <200806300244.m5U2iL4L028174@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

To wit:

./bin/newlist mailman
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./bin/newlist", line 99, in <module>
    from Mailman import mm_cfg
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 45, in <module>
    DEFAULT_URL_HOST = mrvideo.vidiot.com
NameError: name 'mrvideo' is not defined

OK, where is it supposed to be defined?

I really want it to be just vidiot.com.  But that didn't work either, with
the error replacing mrvideo with vidiot.

MB
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From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au  Mon Jun 30 04:26:47 2008
From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:26:47 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber bounced
Message-ID: <200806301226.47938.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au>

I am running a genealogy web site.  My host uses CPanel, and with it came 
Mailman.  I am a subscriber to many lists using Mailman.

One of my subscribers is using Microsoft Office Outlook.  Her X-Mailer line is

X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11

Her messages come in a text par and a HTML part.  They all come to me as 
uncaught bounces with the advice:

"The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
from it. ?This mailing list has been configured to send all
unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s)."

The mention of being unable to extract the address seems strange, but it still 
doesn't give me the reason for the bounce.  I changed my config by activating 
content filtering with the default settings, then asked her to re-send.  It 
made no difference.

I know that this lady subscribes to several mailing lists hosted by 
RootsWeb.com, but I believe that Rootsweb uses a different mailer.  Two other 
subscriber have posted successfully, one using hotmail.  The other uses Yahoo 
Webmail.

I am probably not giving enough info.  Please let me know what you need.

Doug.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 30 04:59:36 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:59:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist list creation error
In-Reply-To: <200806300244.m5U2iL4L028174@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062919593608124d8c5ed0@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:
>
>./bin/newlist mailman
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./bin/newlist", line 99, in <module>
>    from Mailman import mm_cfg
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 45, in <module>
>    DEFAULT_URL_HOST = mrvideo.vidiot.com
>NameError: name 'mrvideo' is not defined
>
>OK, where is it supposed to be defined?


It's not. It's a literal


DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mrvideo.vidiot.com'

>I really want it to be just vidiot.com.  But that didn't work either, with
>the error replacing mrvideo with vidiot.


Then

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'vidiot.com'


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Mon Jun 30 04:28:27 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:28:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim testing error
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008062918175800628debee38@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806300228.m5U2SSpr028075@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark Sapiro responded:

>Also note in the howto, the following
>
>  # Domains that your lists are in - colon separated list
>  # you may wish to add these into local_domains as well
>  domainlist mm_domains=list.example.com

I have the following set in my configure:

domainlist mm_domains=vidiot.com
domainlist local_domains = vidiot.com

The 2nd was already in the configure file.

>and the reference to
>
>    domains = +mm_domains
>
>in the router definition. This is alluded to much more subtly in sec
>6.2.1 of the manual.

Section 6.2.1 doesn't exist.

But I have the following:

begin routers

mailman_router:
  driver = accept
  domains = +mm_domains
  require_files = MM_LISTCHK
[...]


I get the following error when I try and test:

/usr/exim/bin/exim -bt testlist-users
2008-06-29 20:53:47 Exim configuration error in line 563 of /usr/exim/configure:
 option setting expected: {eq{$sender_host_address}{::1}}}{yes}{no}}

It didn't complain about this line:

  condition = ${if or{{eq{$sender_host_address}{127.0.0.1}}

So, I'm guessing it isn't complaining about $sender_host_address, instead
it is complaining about the {::1} part.

My complete configure file is below, less comments and blank lines.  I'd
say about half of the configuration is mailman related :-)

MB
-- 
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MM_HOME=/usr/local/mailman
MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman
MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck
MM_USER=mailman
MM_GROUP=mailman
domainlist mm_domains=vidiot.com
domainlist local_domains = vidiot.com
domainlist relay_to_domains =
hostlist   relay_from_hosts = 127.0.0.1 : mrvideo.vidiot.com
acl_smtp_rcpt = acl_check_rcpt
acl_smtp_data = acl_check_data
never_users = root
host_lookup = *
rfc1413_hosts = *
rfc1413_query_timeout = 5s
ignore_bounce_errors_after = 2d
timeout_frozen_after = 7d
begin acl
acl_check_rcpt:
  accept  hosts = :
  accept  hosts = 127.0.0.1
  deny    message       = Restricted characters in address
          domains       = +local_domains
          local_parts   = ^[.] : ^.*[@%!/|]
  deny    message       = Restricted characters in address
          domains       = !+local_domains
          local_parts   = ^[./|] : ^.*[@%!] : ^.*/\\.\\./
  accept  local_parts   = postmaster
          domains       = +local_domains
          endpass
          message       = unknown user
          verify        = recipient
  require verify        = sender
  accept  hosts         = +relay_from_hosts
          control       = submission
  accept  authenticated = *
          control       = submission
  require message = relay not permitted
          domains = +local_domains : +relay_to_domains
  require verify = recipient
  warn     message      = X-WhitelistedRCPT-nohdrfromcallback: Yes
           condition    = \
           ${if and {{match{$local_part}{(.*)-bounces\+.*}} \
                     {exists {MM_HOME/lists/$1/config.pck}}} \
                {yes}{no}}
  deny     message = "Recipient never sends mail so cannot cause bounces"
           senders = :
           domains = +mm_domains
           condition = ${if exists{MM_LISTCHK} {yes}{no}}
  deny     message = "Recipient never sends mail so cannot cause bounces"
           senders = :
           domains = +mm_domains
           local_parts = \N^.*-(admin|join|leave|owner|request)$\N
  deny     message = "Recipient never sends mail so cannot cause bounces"
           senders = :
           domains = +mm_domains
           local_parts = \N^.*-(subscribe|unsubscribe)$\N
  accept   condition    = \
           ${if and {{match{$local_part}{(.*)-bounces\+.*}} \
                     {exists {MM_HOME/lists/$1/config.pck}}} \
                {yes}{no}}
  deny     !local_parts = *-bounces : *-bounces+*
           !verify = sender/callout=30s,defer_ok
  accept
acl_check_data:
  deny   !condition = $header_X-WhitelistedRCPT-nohdrfromcallback:
         !verify = header_sender/callout=90s
  accept
begin routers
mailman_router:
  driver = accept
  domains = +mm_domains
  require_files = MM_LISTCHK
  local_part_suffix_optional
  local_part_suffix = -admin : \
    -bounces : -bounces+* : \
    -confirm : -confirm+* : \
    -join : -leave : \
    -owner : -request   : \
    -subscribe : -unsubscribe
  transport = mailman_transport
mailman_verp_router:
  driver = dnslookup
  condition = ${if or{{eq{$sender_host_address}{127.0.0.1}}
                      {eq{$sender_host_address}{::1}}}{yes}{no}}
  domains = !+local_domains:!+mm_domains
  ignore_target_hosts = <; 0.0.0.0; \
                           64.94.110.11; \
                           127.0.0.0/8; \
                           ::1/128;fe80::/10;fe \
                           c0::/10;ff00::/8
  senders = "*-bounces@*"
  transport = mailman_verp_smtp
dnslookup:
  driver = dnslookup
  domains = ! +local_domains
  transport = remote_smtp
  ignore_target_hosts = 0.0.0.0 : 127.0.0.0/8
  no_more
system_aliases:
  driver = redirect
  allow_fail
  allow_defer
  data = ${lookup{$local_part}lsearch{/etc/aliases}}
  file_transport = address_file
  pipe_transport = address_pipe
userforward:
  driver = redirect
  check_local_user
  file = $home/.forward
  no_verify
  no_expn
  check_ancestor
  file_transport = address_file
  pipe_transport = address_pipe
  reply_transport = address_reply
localuser:
  driver = accept
  check_local_user
  transport = local_delivery
  cannot_route_message = Unknown user
begin transports
mailman_transport:
  driver = pipe
  command = MM_WRAP \
            '${if def:local_part_suffix \
                  {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
                  {post}}' \
            $local_part
  current_directory = MM_HOME
  home_directory = MM_HOME
  user = MM_USER
  group = MM_GROUP
mailman_verp_smtp:
  driver = smtp
  return_path = \
    ${local_part:$return_path}+$local_part=$domain@${domain:$return_path}
  max_rcpt = 1
  headers_remove = Errors-To
  headers_add = Errors-To: ${return_path}
remote_smtp:
  driver = smtp
local_delivery:
  driver = appendfile
  file = /var/mail/$local_part
  delivery_date_add
  envelope_to_add
  return_path_add
address_pipe:
  driver = pipe
  return_output
address_file:
  driver = appendfile
  delivery_date_add
  envelope_to_add
  return_path_add
address_reply:
  driver = autoreply
begin retry
begin rewrite
begin authenticators

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 30 05:05:43 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:05:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber bounced
In-Reply-To: <200806301226.47938.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806292005430171e3dc8d16@msapiro>

Doug Laidlaw wrote:
>
>One of my subscribers is using Microsoft Office Outlook.  Her X-Mailer line is
>
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11
>
>Her messages come in a text par and a HTML part.  They all come to me as 
>uncaught bounces with the advice:


Because she is posting to listname-bounces at example.com instead of
listname at example.com.

This probably has something to do with <http://wiki.list.org/x/RoA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 30 05:25:25 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:25:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim testing error
In-Reply-To: <200806300228.m5U2SSpr028075@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062920252508595dc380b4@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:

>Mark Sapiro responded:
>
[...]
>>and the reference to
>>
>>    domains = +mm_domains
>>
>>in the router definition. This is alluded to much more subtly in sec
>>6.2.1 of the manual.
>
>Section 6.2.1 doesn't exist.


<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node17.html>


[...]
>I get the following error when I try and test:
>
>/usr/exim/bin/exim -bt testlist-users
>2008-06-29 20:53:47 Exim configuration error in line 563 of /usr/exim/configure:
> option setting expected: {eq{$sender_host_address}{::1}}}{yes}{no}}
>
>It didn't complain about this line:
>
>  condition = ${if or{{eq{$sender_host_address}{127.0.0.1}}
>
>So, I'm guessing it isn't complaining about $sender_host_address, instead
>it is complaining about the {::1} part.

[...]
>  condition = ${if or{{eq{$sender_host_address}{127.0.0.1}}
>                      {eq{$sender_host_address}{::1}}}{yes}{no}}


I'm not sure what it's complaining about, but were getting a bit off
topic for Mailman.  That said, unless you're actually using IPv6, try
replacing the above with

  condition = ${if {eq{$sender_host_address}{127.0.0.1}}{yes}{no}}

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Mon Jun 30 05:30:25 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:30:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist list creation error
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008062919593608124d8c5ed0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806300330.m5U3UP5b028476@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark Sapiro responded:

>It's not. It's a literal

Sorry, never noticed the quote characters.  Even so, not being a python
user (until now), the use of quotes or doublequotes can usually be
eliminated when setting variables in shell scripts.  That would have
been the mode I would have been in when setting the values.  By habit, I
just naturally leave off the quotes (unless I know I need then for
shell sustitution reasons).

When I get to the step about getting mailman to start at boot time,
I'll see if I can get it wedged into the Solaris 10 services system.
The stuff I got to install exim should be modifiable to work with mailman.
If I do manage to get it to work, I'll submit the files for future
inclusion.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au  Mon Jun 30 05:53:00 2008
From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 13:53:00 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber bounced
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200806292005430171e3dc8d16@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200806292005430171e3dc8d16@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806301353.00560.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au>

On Monday 30 June 2008 1:05:43 pm Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Doug Laidlaw wrote:
> >One of my subscribers is using Microsoft Office Outlook.  Her X-Mailer
> > line is
> >
> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11
> >
> >Her messages come in a text par and a HTML part.  They all come to me as
> >uncaught bounces with the advice:
>
> Because she is posting to listname-bounces at example.com instead of
> listname at example.com.
>
> This probably has something to do with <http://wiki.list.org/x/RoA9>.

Thank you.  You were quite right.  But the referenced link seems to deal with 
what she sees on her screen, not with what she sends?

Doug.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 30 06:26:02 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:26:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber bounced
In-Reply-To: <200806301353.00560.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au>
Message-ID: <PC187020080629212602078136e5264f@msapiro>

Doug Laidlaw wrote:

>On Monday 30 June 2008 1:05:43 pm Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> This probably has something to do with <http://wiki.list.org/x/RoA9>.
>
>Thank you.  You were quite right.  But the referenced link seems to deal with 
>what she sees on her screen, not with what she sends?


Who knows what LookOut .. er.. outlook does when she clicks reply.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Tim.Bell at Sun.COM  Mon Jun 30 06:29:56 2008
From: Tim.Bell at Sun.COM (Tim Bell)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:29:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist list creation error
In-Reply-To: <200806300330.m5U3UP5b028476@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
References: <200806300330.m5U3UP5b028476@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <48686144.8090101@sun.com>

Vidiot wrote:

> When I get to the step about getting mailman to start at boot time,
> I'll see if I can get it wedged into the Solaris 10 services system.
> The stuff I got to install exim should be modifiable to work with mailman.
> If I do manage to get it to work, I'll submit the files for future
> inclusion.

Do some searching before you sit down to write a Solaris smf (service management facility) 
manifest from scratch.  You will find other examples out there.  I got my mailman manifest from 
this weblog entry: http://whacked.net/2005/08/14/more-work-on-grommit and a postfix manifest 
for my MTA from http://cuddletech.com/opensolaris/smf/postfix.xml

There is also an archive of smf examples here:

   http://opensolaris.org/os/community/smf/manifests/

HTH - Tim

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jun 30 06:55:08 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:55:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806300230.m5U2UrH3028095@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
References: <200806300230.m5U2UrH3028095@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c48e179741d1@[192.168.1.102]>

On 6/29/08, Vidiot wrote:

>  Crap, I think I sent the last response just to you and not you and the list.
>  I tend to forget to group reply.  I personally prefer mail lists to respond
>  to the list e-mail address and not the poster.

We really don't want to get into this argument again.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Mon Jun 30 07:14:17 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:14:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber bounced
In-Reply-To: <PC187020080629212602078136e5264f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806300514.m5U5EHlB029116@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

>Who knows what LookOut .. er.. outlook does when she clicks reply.
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,

And to think that the company I work for is converting to Outlook.  Many
have.  Our site hasn't yet (there are thousands of employees, world wide).

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Mon Jun 30 07:17:16 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:17:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist list creation error
In-Reply-To: <48686144.8090101@sun.com>
Message-ID: <200806300517.m5U5HGmK029155@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Tim responded:

>Do some searching before you sit down to write a Solaris smf (service management facility) 
>manifest from scratch.  You will find other examples out there.  I got my mailman manifest from 
>this weblog entry: http://whacked.net/2005/08/14/more-work-on-grommit and a postfix manifest 
>for my MTA from http://cuddletech.com/opensolaris/smf/postfix.xml

There is a manifest that I got off the net that was used to place exim under
smf.  I was just going to modify that one.

>There is also an archive of smf examples here:
>
>   http://opensolaris.org/os/community/smf/manifests/

If I can't get the exim one to work, I'll take a look.  Thanks for the
pointer.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Mon Jun 30 08:36:04 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 01:36:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist created - no e-mail
Message-ID: <200806300636.m5U6a4ib031302@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

After creation of the newlist mailman, I was told that the owner (me) was
being sent e-mail to inform that owner.

The e-mail never showed up.

So, as a test, I did the simple e-mail to myself by talking directly to exim
to send a test mail, just like I did when I initially installed exim.

That e-mail showed up in /var/mail.  Exim reported that vidiot at vidiot.com
was really a local user, me (the /etc/aliases file has an entry for vidiot
to go to brown), and that it was deliverd locally.

Don't know what newlist does when it sends e-mail, but it didn't work.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au  Mon Jun 30 08:44:06 2008
From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:44:06 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber bounced
In-Reply-To: <200806300514.m5U5EHlB029116@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
References: <200806300514.m5U5EHlB029116@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <200806301644.06600.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au>

On Monday 30 June 2008 3:14:17 pm Vidiot wrote:
> >Who knows what LookOut .. er.. outlook does when she clicks reply.
> >Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>
> And to think that the company I work for is converting to Outlook.  Many
> have.  Our site hasn't yet (there are thousands of employees, world wide).
>
> MB
>
Anyway, the answer was right.  My subscriber removed the "bounces" and it has 
just come through normally.

Doug.



From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au  Mon Jun 30 08:46:48 2008
From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:46:48 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c48e179741d1@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <200806300230.m5U2UrH3028095@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
	<p06240800c48e179741d1@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <200806301646.48788.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au>

On Monday 30 June 2008 2:55:08 pm Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 6/29/08, Vidiot wrote:
> >  Crap, I think I sent the last response just to you and not you and the
> > list. I tend to forget to group reply.  I personally prefer mail lists to
> > respond to the list e-mail address and not the poster.
>
> We really don't want to get into this argument again.

I do it all the time.   I am using Kmail, and can configure it to reply to the 
list by default.  But then I get caught when something I don't want to go to 
the list, goes there.  It is a no-win situation.

Doug.

From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Mon Jun 30 08:54:54 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 01:54:54 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache,
In-Reply-To: <200806301646.48788.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au>
Message-ID: <200806300654.m5U6st5H031455@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

>I do it all the time.   I am using Kmail, and can configure it to reply to the 
>list by default.  But then I get caught when something I don't want to go to 
>the list, goes there.  It is a no-win situation.
>Doug.

Don't know what I am going to use to read e-mail on the Solaris 10 box.
Whatever I do has to allow me the ability to get at the e-mail via a
GUI, through the work's restrictive firewall.  No ssh, so I can't tunnel
X from my home server to a work Unix box.

So, we'll see how the new program reacts to the mailman list in the future.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 30 16:14:57 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:14:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist created - no e-mail
In-Reply-To: <200806300636.m5U6a4ib031302@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702008063007145707033ab9aa38@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:
>
>Don't know what newlist does when it sends e-mail, but it didn't work.


It queues it in qfiles/virgin.  From there, Mailman's qrunners have to
be running to process it further. Did you start Mailman
(bin/mailmanctl start)?

Actually, I see this is a catch22. You can't start Mailman until after
you create the 'mailman' list, but now that you've created the list,
when you start Mailman you should receive the mail. If not, see
<http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From webmaster at stc.org  Mon Jun 30 16:35:05 2008
From: webmaster at stc.org (Webmaster PF)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:35:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer
In-Reply-To: <48627FAB.1010700@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <D877F5CFA51887468CE533659A0D362C8D6D63@mailhost.stchq.org>


I must be an idiot because I just do not get it. I must be missing an integral part because the footer is still posting as an attachment rather than in the body of the posting.

This is what I have in the non-digest options:

Can subscribers choose to receive mail immediately, rather than in batched digests?
YES

Should Mailman personalize each non-digest delivery? This is often useful for announce-only lists, but read the details section for a discussion of important performance issues.
FULL PERSONALIZATION

Footer added to mail sent to regular list members
_______________________________________________
%(real_name)s mailing list
%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
Unsubscribe: %(user_optionsurl)s

Scrub attachments of regular delivery message?
NO


--Shaf


-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org] 
Posted At: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 1:26 PM
Posted To: mailman_listserv
Conversation: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer

Webmaster PF wrote:

> I tried to follow these procedures but when some one posts the footer is
> in the attachment of the posting instead of the body; unless my Outlook
> is viewing them wrong.

If you go to the FAQ page at 
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked+Questions> and search for 
"footer", one of the top hits will have the subject line "Mailman is munging 
HTML & MIME-formatted messages before they are sent out? (problems with 
Mailman 2.1.x footers)", and the short URL for this page is 
<http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9>.

Please tell us what is wrong with this subject line and why it didn't show 
up in your previous searches of the FAQ.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1519 - Release Date: 6/25/2008 4:13 PM
 

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1525 - Release Date: 6/29/2008 3:09 PM
 

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 30 17:21:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:21:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer
In-Reply-To: <D877F5CFA51887468CE533659A0D362C8D6D63@mailhost.stchq.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806300821500578fde8dcf4@msapiro>

Webmaster PF wrote:
>
>I must be an idiot because I just do not get it. I must be missing an integral part because the footer is still posting as an attachment rather than in the body of the posting.
>
>This is what I have in the non-digest options:
>
>Can subscribers choose to receive mail immediately, rather than in batched digests?
>YES
>
>Should Mailman personalize each non-digest delivery? This is often useful for announce-only lists, but read the details section for a discussion of important performance issues.
>FULL PERSONALIZATION


Full Personalization is not required for the %(user_optionsurl)s
replacement to work. If you want Full Personalization (Recipient's
email address in To: header), that's fine, but Personalization=Yes is
sufficient for the %(user_optionsurl)s replacement to work.


>Footer added to mail sent to regular list members
>_______________________________________________
>%(real_name)s mailing list
>%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
>%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
>Unsubscribe: %(user_optionsurl)s
>
>Scrub attachments of regular delivery message?
>NO


Whether the footer is added as a separate MIME part or is appended to
the 'body' of the mail, depends solely upon the properties of the
outgoing message. This in turn can be affected by content filtering
settings and by the scrubbing of attachments.

The footer will only be appended to the message body as opposed to
being added as a separate MIME part if the outgoing message is a
simple text/plain message. If the outgoing message is multipart or
HTML, the footer will be added as a separate part.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9> that Brad mentioned for
some of the reasons for this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at anl.gov  Mon Jun 30 17:37:12 2008
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:37:12 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Webmaster PF" <webmaster@stc.org>'
	dated: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:35:05 -0400
Message-ID: <20080630153712.76A6917554@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

"Webmaster PF" <webmaster at stc.org> wrote:

>I must be an idiot because I just do not get it. I must be missing an
>integral part because the footer is still posting as an attachment
>rather than in the body of the posting.
>
>This is what I have in the non-digest options:
>
>Can subscribers choose to receive mail immediately, rather than in
>batched digests?
>YES
>
>Should Mailman personalize each non-digest delivery? This is often
>useful for announce-only lists, but read the details section for a
>discussion of important performance issues.
>FULL PERSONALIZATION
>
>Footer added to mail sent to regular list members
>_______________________________________________
>%(real_name)s mailing list
>%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
>%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
>Unsubscribe: %(user_optionsurl)s
>
>Scrub attachments of regular delivery message?
>NO
>
>
>--Shaf

Is the posting in plain text, or is it in HTML-format?  If the posting
is already in HTML-format, then Mailman cannot modify the existing
HTML to place the footer in the already formatted piece.  It must
include the footer as an additional HTML attachment.  There is a FAQ
entry convering this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From dony1985.0729 at yahoo.co.id  Mon Jun 30 18:18:07 2008
From: dony1985.0729 at yahoo.co.id (Dony Tata)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:18:07 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman true virtual hosting
Message-ID: <418151.29884.qm@web76104.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>

can some body help me? i have true domain "true.org" and virtual domain "virtual.org" in DNS configure like this
#../named.conf
options {
directory "/var/named";
};
zone "." {
type hint;
file "named.root";
};
zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" {
type master;
file "named.local";
};
zone "irfan.ac.id" {
type master;
file "irfan.ac.id";
};
zone "true.org" {
type master;
file "true.org";
};
zone "virtual.org" {
type master;
file "virtual.org";
};
#../true.org
$TTL 1D
@       IN      SOA     true.org.      root.true.org. (
                                                1997022700 ; Serial
                                                28800 ; Refresh
                                                14400 ; Retry
                                                3600000 ; Expire
                                                86400 ) ; Minimum


@                 IN  NS      true.org.
@                 IN  MX  10  mail.true.org.

        IN      A       172.18.3.238
mail    IN      A       172.18.3.238
lists   IN      A       172.18.3.214

#.../virtual.org
$TTL 1D
@       IN      SOA     virtual.org.      root.virtual.org. (
                                                1997022700 ; Serial
                                                28800 ; Refresh
                                                14400 ; Retry
                                                3600000 ; Expire
                                                86400 ) ; Minimum


@                 IN  NS      true.
@                 IN  MX  10  mail.true.

        IN      A       172.18.3.214



#.../mm_cfg.py
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'lists.true.org'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.true.org'
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['virtual.org']

#postconf -n
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
html_directory = no
inet_interfaces = all
mail_owner = postfix
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq.postfix
manpage_directory = /usr/share/man
mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain
mynetworks = 172.18.3.0/24, 127.0.0.0/8
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases.postfix
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.3.3/README_FILES
recipient_delimiter = +
sample_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.3.3/samples
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix
setgid_group = postdrop
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
virtual_alias_domains = virtual.org
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman, hash:/etc/postfix/virtual

#.../etc/postfix/virtual
@virtual.org            @lists.true.org

with configuration above, i succes create new list abc at virtual.org, and i have subscribe member "member at true.org" in list abc at virtual.org, but if i send mail to list abc at virtual.org, i have got messege


The mail system <abc at virtual.org>: mail for virtual.org loops back to myself 
Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.true.org 
X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 6F2662840C 
X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; member at true.org 
Arrival-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:38:21 +0700 (WIT) 
Final-Recipient: rfc822; abc at virtual.org
Original-Recipient: rfc822;abc at virtual.org
Action: failed 
Status: 5.4.6 
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; mail for virtual.org loops back to myself 


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From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Mon Jun 30 19:11:04 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:11:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist created - no e-mail
In-Reply-To: <PC18702008063007145707033ab9aa38@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806301711.m5UHB46o010992@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark responded:

>It queues it in qfiles/virgin.  From there, Mailman's qrunners have to
>be running to process it further. Did you start Mailman
>(bin/mailmanctl start)?

Not yet.

>Actually, I see this is a catch22. You can't start Mailman until after
>you create the 'mailman' list, but now that you've created the list,
>when you start Mailman you should receive the mail. If not, see
><http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

Oops, there is that cart before the horse again :-) :-)

You might want to make note of that in the documentation, i.e., that the
first newlist item will be queued until the later step that starts the
grunners.

BTW, I want to thank you for all your help and patience with my quest to
get mailman up and running.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Mon Jun 30 19:32:11 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:32:11 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim testing error
In-Reply-To: <PC187020080630074630031225a5c496@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200806301732.m5UHWBTn011187@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Mark responded:

>What you said was "I'm using the printed copy, placed into a binder. 
>Used the text version to cut-n-paste from.", and I concluded you meant
>the .txt file was in your binder.

True.  I failed to indicate the source of my printout.

>I never noticed this before as I don't use the .pdf version. All the
>versions (HTML, .dvi, .txt, .pdf and .ps) are produced from the same
>.tex source using LaTeX and other document processing tools. For some
>reason, the numeric indicators are left off of third level headings in
>both the .pdf and the .ps, but not the HTML or .txt (I don't know
>about the .dvi - I don't have a viewer handy).

Usually the PostScript output is used to create PDFs.  It has been a really
long time since I took a LaTeX file and created anything from it.  I thought
the DVI was used to create the PS file.  If it is also used to create the
HTML and TXT files, i.e., the source for creation of those files, then it
is OK.  If only used to create the PS file, then it might be suspect.

Someone on this list that knows LaTeX extremely well, might be able to figure
what needs to change in the TEX file so those level headings aren't lost.

I prefer to print from PDF because one gets all the formatting that way :-)

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Mon Jun 30 19:54:41 2008
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Vidiot)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:54:41 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Things are looking up
Message-ID: <200806301754.m5UHsfr5011436@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

After the main mailman list was create, and getting some sleep, I reran the
exim delivery tests a little bit ago.  The result of two of them are as
follows:

/usr/exim/bin/exim -bt mailman
mailman at mrvideo.vidiot.com
    <-- mailman at mrvideo
  router = mailman_router, transport = mailman_transport
/usr/exim/bin/exim -bt mailman-request
mailman-request at mrvideo.vidiot.com
    <-- mailman-request at mrvideo
  router = mailman_router, transport = mailman_transport

In the examples in the manual, the first one uses mailman_main_router,
while the remainder use mailman_router.  I doubt that this is a problem,
so things are looking up.

Not sure why it is saying mailman at mrvideo instead of mailman at mrvideo.vidiot.com.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com                                /~\ The ASCII
[I've been to Earth.  I know where it is.         ]      \ / Ribbon Campaign
[And I'm gonna take us there.    Starbuck  3/25/07]       X  Against
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                          / \ HTML Email

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 30 21:15:42 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:15:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.11 final has been released.
Message-ID: <486930DE.6050202@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am happy to announce the final release of the Mailman 2.1.11.

Mailman 2.1.11 is a cleanup of a few problems found since the release of
Mailman 2.1.10. It fixes the issue of shunted email subscribe requests
and a few minor issues. It updates the contrib/mmdsr script for some
2.1.10 and 2.1.11 log and error messages, and it adds a new cron to cull
and optionally archive old entries in the 'bad' and 'shunt' queues.

Mailman 2.1.11 has updates to several i18n translations.

A few bounce log messages now have the list name prepended.

There is a new Defaults.py|mm_cfg.py setting
ACCEPTABLE_LISTNAME_CHARACTERS with default value '[-+_.=a-z0-9]'.  This
Python regular expression character class specifies the characters
allowed in list names.  The motivation for this is the fact that
previously, a list named, e.g., xxx&yyy could be created and MTA aliases
generated that would cause the MTA to execute yyy as a command.  There
is a possible security issue  here, but it is not believed to be
exploitable in any meaningful way.

If anyone is concerned about the security issue and not ready to
upgrade, the mailman-2.1.11-listname-patch file contains a patch that
can be applied to Mailman 2.1.9 or 2.1.10 to add this feature.

See the release notes at
<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=103&release_id=605074>
for more details.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, including download links, please see:

http://www.list.org
http://mailman.sf.net
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman

Files in this release are:

mailman-2.1.11.tgz                <- The full release tarball

mailman-2.1.11.tgz.sig            <- GPG signature for the tarball

mailman-2.1.11-listname.patch     <- Patch to add new listname
~                                     validation to 2.1.9 or 2.1.10.
~                                     This patch is only applicable to
~                                     the older releases.

mailman-2.1.11-listname.patch.sig <- GPG signature for the patch

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 30 21:42:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:42:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Things are looking up
In-Reply-To: <200806301754.m5UHsfr5011436@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200806301242320843ae22e4ab@msapiro>

Vidiot wrote:
>
>/usr/exim/bin/exim -bt mailman
>mailman at mrvideo.vidiot.com
>    <-- mailman at mrvideo
>  router = mailman_router, transport = mailman_transport
>/usr/exim/bin/exim -bt mailman-request
>mailman-request at mrvideo.vidiot.com
>    <-- mailman-request at mrvideo
>  router = mailman_router, transport = mailman_transport
>
[...]
>
>Not sure why it is saying mailman at mrvideo instead of mailman at mrvideo.vidiot.com.


I think because the domain to which the router applies is vidiot.com
from

domains = +mm_domains

in the router and the definition

domainlist mm_domains=vidiot.com

unless you changed it. Thus the address being routed is mailman at mrvideo
in the vidiot.com domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From terri at zone12.com  Mon Jun 30 21:44:41 2008
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:44:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim testing error
In-Reply-To: <200806301732.m5UHWBTn011187@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
References: <200806301732.m5UHWBTn011187@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <1698067D-AC52-4E71-9AA5-08780C11FCA4@zone12.com>

On 30-Jun-08, at 1:32 PM, Vidiot wrote:
> Usually the PostScript output is used to create PDFs.  It has been  
> a really
> long time since I took a LaTeX file and created anything from it.   
> I thought
> the DVI was used to create the PS file.  If it is also used to  
> create the
> HTML and TXT files, i.e., the source for creation of those files,  
> then it
> is OK.  If only used to create the PS file, then it might be suspect.

It all depends on your setup.  On my mac, pdfs are created directly  
from the LaTeX.  On my linux machines, I believe it usually goes from  
the DVI/PS but sometimes can be done directly from the LaTeX (this is  
not the default), and goodness knows what it might be like on windows.

> Someone on this list that knows LaTeX extremely well, might be able  
> to figure
> what needs to change in the TEX file so those level headings aren't  
> lost.

I might be able to figure this out.  It may not be the TeX -- we  
might have to change the options in the makefile or something.  I'll  
try to take a look at it next week if nothing else comes up.

To be honest, though, my solution to this sort of problem with other  
Mailman documentation in the past has been to import everything into  
our wiki so conversion is done there and with consistent software.

I still not convinced it's the best possible solution, but it has  
greatly limited the number of queries I get on the subject.

  Terri