Subscribe to List

... 
 tag causes the browser to display the
long line as a long line without wrapping it to window width.

This is a dificult problem to solve. One could remove the  ...
 wrapper and replace every newline in the text with 
. That
would work for text, but tabular data as above would still be
compressed on the individual lines. For tabular data, you would need
to expand tab characters if any and replace spaces with  
entities, but you can't replace all spaces with   entities or
you'd be back to the original problem. Combine that with the fact that
Pipermail is a can of worms that no one wants to touch, and you're
stuck with what you've got.

The answer should be to get everyone to use an MUA that creates flowed
text per RFC 3676 for 'paragraphs', but good luck on that one.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Mon Aug  4 19:12:34 2008
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Knabe, Troy)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:12:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Interface tags in email
Message-ID: 

We have written a custom web application that authenticates against our ldap directory so staff can manage their own lists, without all of the robustness of the mailman web interface.  By default both list and administrative emails have links to the web interface.  Where do I need to go about changing that to include the link to our other web server.

As a side note, I still have and want the full mailman for my administration, so I don't want to just change the web host setting as I believe that will render it unusable.

Thanks
-Troy

From wendyplotkin at wbhsi.net  Mon Aug  4 20:39:14 2008
From: wendyplotkin at wbhsi.net (Wendy Plotkin)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:39:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] E-Mail arrives as HTML attachment
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080804113800.03f653a8@wbhsi.net>

My e-mail from one of your lists, sent to the Outlook exchange account 
I have at my university, always end up as an .html attachment, which I 
have to click on to read.  Is this something related to the 
configuration of the list, or something at my end?

Thanks,
Wendy


Wendy Plotkin
Assistant Professor
Department of History (MC 4302)
Arizona State University
Coor Hall -- Rm. 4547
Tempe, AZ  85287-4302
http://www.public.asu.edu/~wplotkin
wendy.plotkin at asu.edu (Preferred means of contact)
Ph: 480-965-3237 (Office w/Voice Mail-Rarely check)
       480-883-2873 (Home Office-Best number to call)
       623-688-6124(Wireless-Rarely check)



From rachel at longitude0.co.uk  Mon Aug  4 21:01:08 2008
From: rachel at longitude0.co.uk (Rachel Mawhood)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:01:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing Subscriber Options page html and
 viewing/checking the results
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080804195328.0218bc98@longitude0.co.uk>

This question is about editing the html on the Subscriber Options 
page.  I have begun editing this to give it the same "look and feel" 
as the rest of the client's web site (as I have already done for the 
public information page).  Is there somewhere, a URL where I can (as 
Admin) can view the changes I have made in my browser, please?

We haven't sent out the first "welcome" message yet, so I don't have 
a Mailman-generated password, only the Admin one.

Thank you.
Rachel


From adamsca at gmail.com  Mon Aug  4 20:48:37 2008
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:48:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about recurring gate_news command
Message-ID: <27572d930808041148h1b7f4467te44ae88d9a67a628@mail.gmail.com>

I looked through the list archives and didn't see where this issue was
resolved. My cron log show a recurring (every 5 minutes)  entry like
this:

Aug  4 11:20:00 swiki CROND[21998]: (mailman) CMD
(/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news)

Can someone suggest a fix?

-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Aug  4 22:16:24 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:16:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about recurring gate_news command
In-Reply-To: <27572d930808041148h1b7f4467te44ae88d9a67a628@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27572d930808041148h1b7f4467te44ae88d9a67a628@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48976398.1030802@shub-internet.org>

Christopher Adams wrote:

> I looked through the list archives and didn't see where this issue was
> resolved. My cron log show a recurring (every 5 minutes)  entry like
> this:
> 
> Aug  4 11:20:00 swiki CROND[21998]: (mailman) CMD
> (/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news)

Right, that's exactly what it's supposed to do.  This is the program that 
runs every five minutes to gateway any news articles to/from selected 
newsgroups.

> Can someone suggest a fix?

What's the problem?

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From brad at python.org  Mon Aug  4 22:19:19 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:19:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] E-Mail arrives as HTML attachment
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20080804113800.03f653a8@wbhsi.net>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20080804113800.03f653a8@wbhsi.net>
Message-ID: <48976447.9050608@python.org>

Wendy Plotkin wrote:

> My e-mail from one of your lists, sent to the Outlook exchange account I 
> have at my university, always end up as an .html attachment, which I 
> have to click on to read.  Is this something related to the 
> configuration of the list, or something at my end?

See the Mailman FAQ at 
, especially 
the entry at .

-- 
Brad Knowles 
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From terri at zone12.com  Mon Aug  4 22:23:40 2008
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:23:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about recurring gate_news command
In-Reply-To: <27572d930808041148h1b7f4467te44ae88d9a67a628@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27572d930808041148h1b7f4467te44ae88d9a67a628@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On 4-Aug-08, at 2:48 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> I looked through the list archives and didn't see where this issue was
> resolved. My cron log show a recurring (every 5 minutes)  entry like
> this:
>
> Aug  4 11:20:00 swiki CROND[21998]: (mailman) CMD
> (/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news)
>
> Can someone suggest a fix?

Are you actually trying to update a news server?  Because if you're  
not, you should probably turn off the mail-news gateway for your  
lists.  I think it's obvious on the options page.

  Terri

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug  4 22:48:15 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:48:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing Subscriber Options page html
	andviewing/checking the results
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20080804195328.0218bc98@longitude0.co.uk>
Message-ID: 

Rachel Mawhood wrote:

>This question is about editing the html on the Subscriber Options 
>page.  I have begun editing this to give it the same "look and feel" 
>as the rest of the client's web site (as I have already done for the 
>public information page).  Is there somewhere, a URL where I can (as 
>Admin) can view the changes I have made in my browser, please?
>
>We haven't sent out the first "welcome" message yet, so I don't have 
>a Mailman-generated password, only the Admin one.


Go to the list admin Membership Management...->Membership List page(s)
and click on any member's email address.

If there aren't any members, add yourself via the Mass Subscription
page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rachel at longitude0.co.uk  Mon Aug  4 22:59:20 2008
From: rachel at longitude0.co.uk (Rachel Mawhood)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:59:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing Subscriber Options page html
 andviewing/checking the results
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080804195328.0218bc98@longitude0.co.uk>
	
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080804215617.05e2f678@longitude0.co.uk>

Thank you - exactly what I was looking for.
Rachel


At 21:48 04/08/2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Go to the list admin Membership Management...->Membership List page(s)
>and click on any member's email address.


Rachel Mawhood wrote:
> >This question is about editing the html on the Subscriber Options
> >page.  ...  Is there somewhere, a URL where I can (as
> >Admin) can view the changes I have made in my browser, please?


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug  4 23:00:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:00:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about recurring gate_news command
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Terri Oda wrote:
>
>Are you actually trying to update a news server?  Because if you're  
>not, you should probably turn off the mail-news gateway for your  
>lists.  I think it's obvious on the options page.


That won't stop the cron running every 5 minutes. The only way to do
that is to edit Mailman's crontab.

If you are not actually gating from a newsgroup to a list (and never
plan to), you don't need to run cron/gate_news and you can comment it
out in the crontab. Gating from a list to a newsgroup is triggered by
the post and cron/gate_news is not involved. cron/gate_news polls the
newsgroups accociated with lists that have gateway_to_mail set to Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From acravens at uen.org  Tue Aug  5 01:16:42 2008
From: acravens at uen.org (Andy Cravens)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:16:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Truncated aliases file
Message-ID: <48978DDA.7030008@uen.org>

We are running mailman 2.1.9 on Solaris 10.  This afternoon we had a 
strange problem that we have never seen before.  The mailman aliases 
file located at /opt/mailman/data/aliases was somehow truncated and 
contained only a dozen of our 173 lists.  Almost all of our list traffic 
was rejected with "User unknown in local recipient table" as a result. 
The problem was easily remedied by running the genaliases script.

I can find no reason for this one-time occurrence (I hope it was a 
one-time occurrence).  I have checked the server and found no hardware 
or system errors.  I have checked all the mailman logs and have found 
nothing that correlates to the date/time of when the problem started.

I have also spent some time googling this problem without finding much. 
    Just wanted to run it by the list to see if anybody else has seen 
this.  If it happens again I guess I could write a script to detect the 
problem and automatically run genaliases but I'd rather locate the 
source of the problem.  Maybe it won't happen again.

--
Andy

From adamsca at gmail.com  Tue Aug  5 02:27:48 2008
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:27:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about recurring gate_news command
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <27572d930808041727x586e2f77lf035c921202ccd3e@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to all. I was concerned because I hadn't seen so many log
entries before from gate_news. Does this likely mean that a list was
configured to run the mail-news gateway or has it been running like
that all along?

Anyway, I hadcommented out the entry in the crontab.in previously, but
I didn't think to re-run the crontab command to update it. It seems to
have stopped now.

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 2:00 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> Terri Oda wrote:
>>
>>Are you actually trying to update a news server?  Because if you're
>>not, you should probably turn off the mail-news gateway for your
>>lists.  I think it's obvious on the options page.
>
>
> That won't stop the cron running every 5 minutes. The only way to do
> that is to edit Mailman's crontab.
>
> If you are not actually gating from a newsgroup to a list (and never
> plan to), you don't need to run cron/gate_news and you can comment it
> out in the crontab. Gating from a list to a newsgroup is triggered by
> the post and cron/gate_news is not involved. cron/gate_news polls the
> newsgroups accociated with lists that have gateway_to_mail set to Yes.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>



-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug  5 03:54:22 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 18:54:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about recurring gate_news command
In-Reply-To: <27572d930808041727x586e2f77lf035c921202ccd3e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Christopher Adams wrote:

>Thanks to all. I was concerned because I hadn't seen so many log
>entries before from gate_news. Does this likely mean that a list was
>configured to run the mail-news gateway or has it been running like
>that all along?


It has nothing to do with list configuration. One or more lists being
configured to gatway from news to the list (gateway_to_mail = Yes)
will affect whether or not gate_news does anything when it runs, but
only the crontab affects if and how often it runs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug  5 06:13:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 21:13:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Interface tags in email
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Knabe, Troy wrote:

>We have written a custom web application that authenticates against our ldap directory so staff can manage their own lists, without all of the robustness of the mailman web interface.  By default both list and administrative emails have links to the web interface.  Where do I need to go about changing that to include the link to our other web server.


If you're talking about the footers in list posts and digests, those
are defined in the list's Non-digest options -> msg_footer and Digest
options -> digest_footer. The default footers contain the line

%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s

which for this list for example expands to

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

You can edit these footers any way you want. The actual substitutions
that are available are described in the 'Details for' link, but you
don't have to use any.

If you're talking about the RFC 2369 List-* headers, those are added in
Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py

Other notices, such as admindb request notifications are either based
on templates or are completely hard coded. See
 for information about templates. To find
a particular notice use

grep "some template text" templates/en/*

and

grep -r "some text" Mailman/*

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Max.Lanfranconi at Sun.COM  Tue Aug  5 08:52:30 2008
From: Max.Lanfranconi at Sun.COM (Max Lanfranconi)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:52:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers suddenly "disappear"
In-Reply-To: <4896BCB5.2090008@sun.com>
References: <4896BCB5.2090008@sun.com>
Message-ID: <4897F8AE.30601@sun.com>

Hi,
 I would much appreciate if someone could take the time to replicate the 
following mailman behaviour.
Please let me know if you find the same issues.



Thanks in advance,

Regards,
Max

Max Lanfranconi wrote:
>
>
> Mailman 2.1.11
> Python 2.4.4
> OS Solaris 2.11
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I have been able to reproduce this bug consistently by running the
> replicate_bug script:
>
>
> replicate _bug is the following:
>
> #!/bin/sh
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/rmlist testlist1
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/rmlist testlist2
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/rmlist testlist3
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/rmlist testlist4
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/rmlist testlist5
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/rmlist testlist6
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist -q -e url.domain.com testlist1
> list-admin at domain.com testpwd
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist -q -e url.domain.com testlist2
> list-admin at domain.com testpwd
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist -q -e url.domain.com testlist3
> list-admin at domain.com testpwd
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist -q -e url.domain.com testlist4
> list-admin at domain.com testpwd
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist -q -e url.domain.com testlist5
> list-admin at domain.com testpwd
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist -q -e url.domain.com testlist6
> list-admin at domain.com testpwd
>
>
> echo "foo at bar.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist1
> echo "foo at bar.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist2
> echo "foo at bar.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist3
> echo "foo at bar.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist4
> echo "foo at bar.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist5
> echo "foo at bar.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist6
> echo "boo at foo.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist1
> echo "boo at foo.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist2
> echo "boo at foo.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist3
> echo "boo at foo.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist4
> echo "boo at foo.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist5
> echo "boo at foo.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist6
>
> After a short wait the following output is received:
>
> Subscribed: foo at bar.com
> Subscribed: foo at bar.com
> Subscribed: foo at bar.com
> Subscribed: foo at bar.com
> Subscribed: foo at bar.com
> Subscribed: foo at bar.com
> Subscribed: boo at foo.com
> Subscribed: boo at foo.com
> Subscribed: boo at foo.com
> Subscribed: boo at foo.com
> Subscribed: boo at foo.com
> Subscribed: boo at foo.com
>
> foo at bar.com receives 6 confirmation emails, as boo at foo.com does. S
> o far so
> good.
>
> At this point testlist1-6 each should contain 2 subscribers: foo at bar.com
> and boo at foo.com
>
> BUT
>
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members testlist1
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members testlist2
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members testlist3
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members testlist4
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members testlist5
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members testlist6
>
> invariably produce some random combination in which one or more of the
> subscribers are missing:
> for example:
> boo at foo.com
> foo at bar.com
> foo at bar.com
> boo at foo.com
> foo at bar.com
> foo at bar.com
> foo at bar.com
> boo at foo.com
> foo at bar.com
>
> in which three instances of boo at foo.com are missing...
>
> No Errors in any Mailman log.
>
>
> Thanks in advance for your help. Please let me know if you need 
> additional
> details.
> Regards,
> Max
>


From b19141 at anl.gov  Tue Aug  5 17:18:36 2008
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue,  5 Aug 2008 10:18:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers suddenly "disappear"
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Max Lanfranconi '
	dated: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 01:24:21 -0700
Message-ID: <20080805151836.28DEA174F9@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

Max Lanfranconi  wrote:

>Mailman 2.1.11
>Python 2.4.4
>OS Solaris 2.11
>
>
>Hi,
>
>I have been able to reproduce this bug consistently by running the
>replicate_bug script:
>
>
>replicate _bug is the following:
>
>#!/bin/sh
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/rmlist testlist1
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/rmlist testlist2
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/rmlist testlist3
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/rmlist testlist4
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/rmlist testlist5
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/rmlist testlist6
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist -q -e url.domain.com testlist1
>list-admin at domain.com testpwd
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist -q -e url.domain.com testlist2
>list-admin at domain.com testpwd
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist -q -e url.domain.com testlist3
>list-admin at domain.com testpwd
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist -q -e url.domain.com testlist4
>list-admin at domain.com testpwd
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist -q -e url.domain.com testlist5
>list-admin at domain.com testpwd
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist -q -e url.domain.com testlist6
>list-admin at domain.com testpwd
>
>
>echo "foo at bar.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist1
>echo "foo at bar.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist2
>echo "foo at bar.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist3
>echo "foo at bar.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist4
>echo "foo at bar.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist5
>echo "foo at bar.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist6
>echo "boo at foo.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist1
>echo "boo at foo.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist2
>echo "boo at foo.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist3
>echo "boo at foo.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist4
>echo "boo at foo.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist5
>echo "boo at foo.com" | /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r - testlist6
>
>After a short wait the following output is received:
>
>Subscribed: foo at bar.com
>Subscribed: foo at bar.com
>Subscribed: foo at bar.com
>Subscribed: foo at bar.com
>Subscribed: foo at bar.com
>Subscribed: foo at bar.com
>Subscribed: boo at foo.com
>Subscribed: boo at foo.com
>Subscribed: boo at foo.com
>Subscribed: boo at foo.com
>Subscribed: boo at foo.com
>Subscribed: boo at foo.com
>
>foo at bar.com receives 6 confirmation emails, as boo at foo.com does. S
>o far so
>good.
>
>At this point testlist1-6 each should contain 2 subscribers: foo at bar.com
>and boo at foo.com
>
>BUT
>
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members testlist1
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members testlist2
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members testlist3
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members testlist4
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members testlist5
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members testlist6
>
>invariably produce some random combination in which one or more of the
>subscribers are missing:
>for example:
>boo at foo.com
>foo at bar.com
>foo at bar.com
>boo at foo.com
>foo at bar.com
>foo at bar.com
>foo at bar.com
>boo at foo.com
>foo at bar.com
>
>in which three instances of boo at foo.com are missing...
>
>No Errors in any Mailman log.
>
>
>Thanks in advance for your help. Please let me know if you need additional
>details.
>Regards,
>Max

I ran the script (after some minor modifications) on

     Ubuntu Dapper
     Mailman 2.1.11  (self-built package)
     Python 2.4.3 (#2, Oct  6 2006, 07:49:22)

and I get similar results:

     Script started on Tue 05 Aug 2008 09:45:31 AM CDT
     # set prompt="mailman11-test# "
     mailman11-test# ./replicate_bug.exec
     Remove the components of a mailing list with impunity - beware!

     This removes (almost) all traces of a mailing list.  By default, the lists
     archives are not removed, which is very handy for retiring old lists.

     Usage:
	 rmlist [-a] [-h] listname

     Where:
	 --archives
	 -a
	     Remove the list's archives too, or if the list has already been
	     deleted, remove any residual archives.

	 --help
	 -h
	     Print this help message and exit.


     No such list (or list already deleted): testlist1
     Remove the components of a mailing list with impunity - beware!

     This removes (almost) all traces of a mailing list.  By default, the lists
     archives are not removed, which is very handy for retiring old lists.

     Usage:
	 rmlist [-a] [-h] listname

     Where:
	 --archives
	 -a
	     Remove the list's archives too, or if the list has already been
	     deleted, remove any residual archives.

	 --help
	 -h
	     Print this help message and exit.


     No such list (or list already deleted): testlist2
     Remove the components of a mailing list with impunity - beware!

     This removes (almost) all traces of a mailing list.  By default, the lists
     archives are not removed, which is very handy for retiring old lists.

     Usage:
	 rmlist [-a] [-h] listname

     Where:
	 --archives
	 -a
	     Remove the list's archives too, or if the list has already been
	     deleted, remove any residual archives.

	 --help
	 -h
	     Print this help message and exit.


     No such list (or list already deleted): testlist3
     Remove the components of a mailing list with impunity - beware!

     This removes (almost) all traces of a mailing list.  By default, the lists
     archives are not removed, which is very handy for retiring old lists.

     Usage:
	 rmlist [-a] [-h] listname

     Where:
	 --archives
	 -a
	     Remove the list's archives too, or if the list has already been
	     deleted, remove any residual archives.

	 --help
	 -h
	     Print this help message and exit.


     No such list (or list already deleted): testlist4
     Remove the components of a mailing list with impunity - beware!

     This removes (almost) all traces of a mailing list.  By default, the lists
     archives are not removed, which is very handy for retiring old lists.

     Usage:
	 rmlist [-a] [-h] listname

     Where:
	 --archives
	 -a
	     Remove the list's archives too, or if the list has already been
	     deleted, remove any residual archives.

	 --help
	 -h
	     Print this help message and exit.


     No such list (or list already deleted): testlist5
     Remove the components of a mailing list with impunity - beware!

     This removes (almost) all traces of a mailing list.  By default, the lists
     archives are not removed, which is very handy for retiring old lists.

     Usage:
	 rmlist [-a] [-h] listname

     Where:
	 --archives
	 -a
	     Remove the list's archives too, or if the list has already been
	     deleted, remove any residual archives.

	 --help
	 -h
	     Print this help message and exit.


     No such list (or list already deleted): testlist6
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     mailman11-test# foreach list (1 2 3 4 5 6)
     ?      echo $list
     ?      list_members testlist$list
     ? end
     1
     boo at foo.com
     foo at bar.com
     2
     boo at foo.com
     foo at bar.com
     3
     boo at foo.com
     foo at bar.com
     4
     boo at foo.com
     foo at bar.com
     5
     foo at bar.com
     6
     foo at bar.com
     mailman11-test# =======================================================
     mailman11-test# ./replicate_bug.exec
     Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
     Removing list info
     Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
     Removing list info
     Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
     Removing list info
     Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
     Removing list info
     Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
     Removing list info
     Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
     Removing list info
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     mailman11-test# foreach list (1 2 3 4 5 6)
     ?           echo $list
     ?           list_members testlist$list
     ? end
     1
     boo at foo.com
     foo at bar.com
     2
     boo at foo.com
     foo at bar.com
     3
     foo at bar.com
     4
     foo at bar.com
     5
     foo at bar.com
     6
     foo at bar.com
     mailman11-test# =======================================================
     mailman11-test# ./replicate_bug.exec
     Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
     Removing list info
     Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
     Removing list info
     Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
     Removing list info
     Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
     Removing list info
     Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
     Removing list info
     Not removing archives.  Reinvoke with -a to remove them.
     Removing list info
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: foo at bar.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     Subscribed: boo at foo.com
     mailman11-test# foreach list (1 2 3 4 5 6)
     ?          echo $list
     ?          list_members testlist$list
     ? end
     1
     foo at bar.com
     2
     boo at foo.com
     foo at bar.com
     3
     foo at bar.com
     4
     foo at bar.com
     5
     foo at bar.com
     6
     foo at bar.com
     mailman11-test# exit

     Script done on Tue 05 Aug 2008 09:50:48 AM CDT

I then added

     sleep 5

after each "add_members" line, and the output looked fine.
I changed the sleep interval from 5 down to 1 in successive
runs, and each output looks fine; each list has the proper two
subscribers.  Is there a timing issue here?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From b19141 at anl.gov  Tue Aug  5 17:28:05 2008
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue,  5 Aug 2008 10:28:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Periods in user email addresses rejected
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Jay Deiman '
	dated: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:19:08 -0500
Message-ID: <20080805152805.92CE6174F9@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
| Jay Deiman writes:
|
|  > I just got mailman up and running with Postfix and everything has been
|  > working perfectly except when someone tries to subscribe to the list
|  > that has a period in the "user" portion of the address.  For example:
|  > fname.lname at domain.org.  It gets rejected as an invalid email
address by
|  > the web interface.
|
| I've never heard of this before.  Just checking, but are you sure that
| these mailboxes don't have periods in their display names rather than
| (or as well as) their addresses?  That is, although
|
|     Stephen Turnbull 
|
| is a valid mailbox according to RFC 2822,
|
|     Stephen J. Turnbull 
|
| is not, and must be quoted
|
|     "Stephen J. Turnbull" 
|
| (I don't think Mailman checks for this, but given that AFAICT from the
| source, Mailman should not behave the way you describe, it's a guess.)
|
|  > First, is this a setting somewhere that can be changed?
|
| No.  I would assume that the design is to allow anything that RFC 2822
| does.  As far as I can tell, what you are seeing is a MMHostileAddress
| as defined in Mailman/Errors.py, and the characters checked for are in
| _badchars and _specials in Mailman/Utils.py.  However, '.' isn't in
| there AFAICS, in a recently updated bzr checkout of 2.1.
|
| What version of Mailman are you using?
|

And Jay replied:

>I'm using version 2.1.10 (FreeBSD port) with Postfix 2.4.1 (FreeBSD
>port).  I just tried this again through the web interface (not as an
>admin, but as someone attempting to subscribe) and I got the same
>results. I used the address "jay.deiman at gmail.com" (without quotes) and
>no name in the name field.  Verbatim, I get this response:
>
>You must supply a valid email address.
>
>That is it.  I've tested with other email addresses, not containing a
>period, and they all work fine.

I just ran a test on my Mailman 2.1.11 test system (with Postfix),
and I was able, through the web interface, to subscribe

     Barry.Finkel at anl.gov

to one of my test lists.  I did not enter anything in the

     Your name (optional):

box.  I received the confirmation mail at that address, and I went to
the URL in that e-mail to confirm my subscription.  I then had to
approve my subscription, as this test list requires list owner
approval for subscriptions.  Postfix is involved only in sending the
confirmation mail to Barry.Finkel at anl.gov.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug  5 17:52:07 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 08:52:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers suddenly "disappear"
In-Reply-To: <20080805151836.28DEA174F9@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: 

Barry Finkel wrote:

>Max Lanfranconi  wrote:
>
>>Mailman 2.1.11
>>Python 2.4.4
>>OS Solaris 2.11
>>
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I have been able to reproduce this bug consistently by running the
>>replicate_bug script:

>
>I ran the script (after some minor modifications) on
>
>     Ubuntu Dapper
>     Mailman 2.1.11  (self-built package)
>     Python 2.4.3 (#2, Oct  6 2006, 07:49:22)
>
>and I get similar results:
>

>
>I then added
>
>     sleep 5
>
>after each "add_members" line, and the output looked fine.
>I changed the sleep interval from 5 down to 1 in successive
>runs, and each output looks fine; each list has the proper two
>subscribers.  Is there a timing issue here?


There appears to be some kind of race issue. There are two other
reports of strangeness like this at

and
.

In both of those cases it seemed there may have been a locking failure
of some kind, but I couldn't see how. See the above threads for more
detail.

However, locking (at least list locking at the Mailman level) doesn't
seem to be involved in this case because each command process will
have saved and unlocked the list and terminated before the next
command process begins.

I intend to test the script on two other platforms (Cygwin/Python
2.5.1, and Centos 5/Python 2.4.3) later today.

Given that this script is (or should be) running the command processes
serially with no contention between commands for the config.pck files,
It would seem like an OS issue, but the script failure occurs on two
different OS platforms already, so I'm at a loss for what the issue
may be.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug  5 19:12:07 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 10:12:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers suddenly "disappear"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>However, locking (at least list locking at the Mailman level) doesn't
>seem to be involved in this case because each command process will
>have saved and unlocked the list and terminated before the next
>command process begins.


While is correct as far as it goes, I forgot about VirginRunner and
OutgoingRunner sending the welcome messages. So there are other
mailman processes running in parallel accessing the same config.pck
files so list locking is involved.


>I intend to test the script on two other platforms (Cygwin/Python
>2.5.1, and Centos 5/Python 2.4.3) later today.


I have run a somewhat revised script on both platforms with the
following results:

Cygwin 1.5.19(0.150/4/2) on Windows XP with Python 2.5.1
  No loss of members whether or not mailman is running concurrently
  (3 of 3 tries with mailman running).

CentOS 5 (Linux 2.6.18-8.1.14.el5) with Python 2.4.3
  No loss of members if script is run with mailman stopped.
  Lost members if script is run with mailman running on 2 out of 3
  tries.

So far, all the failures reported have been with Python 2.4.x and
Python 2.5.1 didn't fail, but this could also be Cygwin and
independent of Python. It would help if others could try this with
Python 2.5.x and report.

Here's the script I used. It is similar to the original, but I
parameterized several things and I added '-a' to the rmlist command.

#!/bin/sh

prefix=/usr/local/mailman
usera=mark at msapiro.net
userb=msapiro at msapiro.net
owner=mark at msapiro.net
edomain=msapiro.net
listname=testlist

$prefix/bin/rmlist -a ${listname}1
$prefix/bin/rmlist -a ${listname}2
$prefix/bin/rmlist -a ${listname}3
$prefix/bin/rmlist -a ${listname}4
$prefix/bin/rmlist -a ${listname}5
$prefix/bin/rmlist -a ${listname}6
$prefix/bin/newlist -q -e $edomain ${listname}1 $owner testpwd
$prefix/bin/newlist -q -e $edomain ${listname}2 $owner testpwd
$prefix/bin/newlist -q -e $edomain ${listname}3 $owner testpwd
$prefix/bin/newlist -q -e $edomain ${listname}4 $owner testpwd
$prefix/bin/newlist -q -e $edomain ${listname}5 $owner testpwd
$prefix/bin/newlist -q -e $edomain ${listname}6 $owner testpwd


echo "$usera" | $prefix/bin/add_members -r - ${listname}1
echo "$usera" | $prefix/bin/add_members -r - ${listname}2
echo "$usera" | $prefix/bin/add_members -r - ${listname}3
echo "$usera" | $prefix/bin/add_members -r - ${listname}4
echo "$usera" | $prefix/bin/add_members -r - ${listname}5
echo "$usera" | $prefix/bin/add_members -r - ${listname}6
echo "$userb" | $prefix/bin/add_members -r - ${listname}1
echo "$userb" | $prefix/bin/add_members -r - ${listname}2
echo "$userb" | $prefix/bin/add_members -r - ${listname}3
echo "$userb" | $prefix/bin/add_members -r - ${listname}4
echo "$userb" | $prefix/bin/add_members -r - ${listname}5
echo "$userb" | $prefix/bin/add_members -r - ${listname}6

sleep 5

$prefix/bin/list_members ${listname}1
$prefix/bin/list_members ${listname}2
$prefix/bin/list_members ${listname}3
$prefix/bin/list_members ${listname}4
$prefix/bin/list_members ${listname}5
$prefix/bin/list_members ${listname}6

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Tue Aug  5 20:09:03 2008
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Simon)
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:09:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question re: creating new lists from the GUI
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4898973F.4040904@libertytrek.org>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your help - see inline below for my responses.

On 8/2/2008 11:15 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> The fact that you are getting 'user unknown in virtual mailbox table'
> tells me that your list domain is a postfix virtual domain. You need
> to go to  and do the
> things outlined in both subsections 6.1.1 and 6.1.2.
> 
> In mm_cfg.py you need
> 
> MTA= 'Postfix'
> 
> and
> 
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['list.example.com']

This is from my current mm_cfg.py:

# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
MTA = 'Postfix'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['myhost.mydomain.com']
ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes


> You also need to reference data/aliases and data/virtual-mailman in
> your postfix main.cf as outlined in the manual linked above.

 From my current main.cf (snipped output of postconf -n):
alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

and

virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, 
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

And, well, dang - I visually inspected each file and they both contain 
the proper aliases for the newly created list, so the aliases *are* 
getting created...

> If you have further questions about this, please ask.

Ok - any other ideas where to look? ;)

Thanks again for the help...

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug  5 20:35:02 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 11:35:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question re: creating new lists from the GUI
In-Reply-To: <4898973F.4040904@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: 

Simon wrote:
>
>And, well, dang - I visually inspected each file and they both contain 
>the proper aliases for the newly created list, so the aliases *are* 
>getting created...
>


And were /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db and
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual_mailman.db updated when the list was
created?

There may be some problem with the defaults

POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'

or possibly permissions - are /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db and
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual_mailman.db group writable and in
Mailman's group.

Is there anything in Mailman's 'error' log from the time of the list
create?

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Tue Aug  5 20:36:42 2008
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Simon)
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:36:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question re: creating new lists from the GUI
In-Reply-To: <4898973F.4040904@libertytrek.org>
References: 
	<4898973F.4040904@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <48989DBA.6060005@libertytrek.org>

On 8/5/2008 2:09 PM, Simon wrote:
> And, well, dang - I visually inspected each file and they both contain 
> the proper aliases for the newly created list, so the aliases *are* 
> getting created...

Ok, found the problem, but am curious about the why...

I'm new to mailman by the way, so sorry if this is an FAQ...

I use postfixadmin on this server and users are stored in mysql...

I had to create the alias in postfixadmin, as:

newlist at mydomain.com  >aliased to> newlist at myhost.mydomain.com

Is this normal? Or should mailman be creating this alias too?

Not a big deal, but it seems like the mailman list creation process 
should be able to do this too.

Thanks again...

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug  5 21:02:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:02:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question re: creating new lists from the GUI
In-Reply-To: <48989DBA.6060005@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: 

Simon wrote:
>
>Ok, found the problem, but am curious about the why...
>
>I'm new to mailman by the way, so sorry if this is an FAQ...
>
>I use postfixadmin on this server and users are stored in mysql...
>
>I had to create the alias in postfixadmin, as:
>
>newlist at mydomain.com  >aliased to> newlist at myhost.mydomain.com
>
>Is this normal? Or should mailman be creating this alias too?
>
>Not a big deal, but it seems like the mailman list creation process 
>should be able to do this too.


Your Mailman is misconfigured. If you want to mail to your list at
newlist at mydomain.com, the domain of your list should be mydomain.com
and 'mydomain.com' should be in the POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
list. Also, if 'mydomain.com' is not DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, you should
have

add_virtualhost('web.example.com', 'mydomain.com')

in mm_cfg.py. With these settings, creating newlist from the
http://web.example.com/mailman/create page will create that list with
a host_name of mydomain.com and will create the virtual mapping from
newlist at mydomain.com to local newlist and you won't need the mysql
alias.

The details of how to set all this up depend on whether or not you have
more than one domain for mailman list mail and more than one domain
for mailman web access and whether or not the mail domains are virtual
or local in postfix. If you tell us what you have, we can be more
specific about what you need.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Tue Aug  5 22:21:28 2008
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Simon)
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:21:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question re: creating new lists from the GUI
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4898B648.2040308@libertytrek.org>

On 8/5/2008 3:02 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> I had to create the alias in postfixadmin, as:
>>
>> newlist at mydomain.com  >aliased to> newlist at myhost.mydomain.com
>>
>> Is this normal? Or should mailman be creating this alias too?

> Your Mailman is misconfigured.

I don't doubt that... :) and I appreciate your help in fixing it.

> If you want to mail to your list at newlist at mydomain.com, the domain
> of your list should be mydomain.com and 'mydomain.com' should be in
> the POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS list.

Hmmm... well, all of the current lists have this alias for each list - 
so I'll need to be careful when changing this...

> Also, if 'mydomain.com' is not DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, you should have
> 
> add_virtualhost('web.example.com', 'mydomain.com')

Hmm... maybe this is the easiest fix... this is currently (in 
Defaults.py) set to myhost.mydomain.com...

So, I should be able to just add:

add_virtualhost('web.mydomain.com', 'myhost.mydomain.com')

to mm_cfg.py and it should work for subsequent new lists?

> in mm_cfg.py. With these settings, creating newlist from the
> http://web.example.com/mailman/create page will create that list with
> a host_name of mydomain.com and will create the virtual mapping from
> newlist at mydomain.com to local newlist and you won't need the mysql
> alias.
> 
> The details of how to set all this up depend on whether or not you have
> more than one domain for mailman list mail and more than one domain
> for mailman web access and whether or not the mail domains are virtual
> or local in postfix. If you tell us what you have, we can be more
> specific about what you need.

Ok...

1. just one domain for list mail

2. just one domain for web access

3. it is a virtual domain in postfix, but it is the only one, and I 
don't see that changing.

Thanks again...

From SmithMm at tblc.org  Tue Aug  5 22:25:16 2008
From: SmithMm at tblc.org (Matt Smith)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 16:25:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I list all members of a list via command
	line?
Message-ID: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E235852940530B26D@EXCHANGE.tblc.local>

Hello all,

 

I am fairly new to working with Mailman.   We have several lists and I
want to list all of the members of a few of the lists.  

 

How would I accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

 

Matthew Smith

Tampa Bay Library Consortium

813-622-8252 X229

smithmm at tblc.org

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug  5 22:44:40 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:44:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question re: creating new lists from the GUI
In-Reply-To: <4898B648.2040308@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: 

Simon wrote:

>On 8/5/2008 3:02 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> I had to create the alias in postfixadmin, as:
>>>
>>> newlist at mydomain.com  >aliased to> newlist at myhost.mydomain.com
>>>
>>> Is this normal? Or should mailman be creating this alias too?
>
>> Your Mailman is misconfigured.
>
>I don't doubt that... :) and I appreciate your help in fixing it.
>
>> If you want to mail to your list at newlist at mydomain.com, the domain
>> of your list should be mydomain.com and 'mydomain.com' should be in
>> the POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS list.
>
>Hmmm... well, all of the current lists have this alias for each list - 
>so I'll need to be careful when changing this...
>
>> Also, if 'mydomain.com' is not DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, you should have
>> 
>> add_virtualhost('web.example.com', 'mydomain.com')
>
>Hmm... maybe this is the easiest fix... this is currently (in 
>Defaults.py) set to myhost.mydomain.com...
>
>So, I should be able to just add:
>
>add_virtualhost('web.mydomain.com', 'myhost.mydomain.com')
>
>to mm_cfg.py and it should work for subsequent new lists?


I don't think so. I'm confused at this point. Mailman and Postfix both
seem to be set up properly for you to mail to
listname at myhost.mydomain.com, yet your mysql alias seems to be
required for you to mail to listname at mydomain.com.

Which domain do you want to use for your list mail?


>> in mm_cfg.py. With these settings, creating newlist from the
>> http://web.example.com/mailman/create page will create that list with
>> a host_name of mydomain.com and will create the virtual mapping from
>> newlist at mydomain.com to local newlist and you won't need the mysql
>> alias.
>> 
>> The details of how to set all this up depend on whether or not you have
>> more than one domain for mailman list mail and more than one domain
>> for mailman web access and whether or not the mail domains are virtual
>> or local in postfix. If you tell us what you have, we can be more
>> specific about what you need.
>
>Ok...
>
>1. just one domain for list mail


If that is the domain which is currently DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, which I
gather is 'myhost.mydomain.com', then I think everything should work
if you just mail to that domain.

So what is this domain?

>2. just one domain for web access


And is this the DEFAULT_URL_HOST domain?


>3. it is a virtual domain in postfix, but it is the only one, and I 
>don't see that changing.


And which domain is this?

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Aug  5 22:47:30 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 05:47:30 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question re: creating new lists from the GUI
In-Reply-To: <48989DBA.6060005@libertytrek.org>
References: 
	<4898973F.4040904@libertytrek.org>
	<48989DBA.6060005@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <87d4knfau5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Simon writes:

 > I had to create the alias in postfixadmin, as:
 > 
 > newlist at mydomain.com  >aliased to> newlist at myhost.mydomain.com
 > 
 > Is this normal? Or should mailman be creating this alias too?

Mailman should not create that alias.  Those are different domains, in
many installations different hosts with different users and
administration, etc.  Mailman cannot tell what the intent is here.


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug  5 22:49:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:49:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I list all members of a list via
	commandline?
In-Reply-To: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E235852940530B26D@EXCHANGE.tblc.local>
Message-ID: 

Matt Smith wrote:
>
>I am fairly new to working with Mailman.   We have several lists and I
>want to list all of the members of a few of the lists.  


See the FAQ article at .

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Tue Aug  5 22:56:21 2008
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Simon)
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:56:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question re: creating new lists from the GUI
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4898BE75.5070804@libertytrek.org>

On 8/5/2008 4:44 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I don't think so. I'm confused at this point. Mailman and Postfix both
> seem to be set up properly for you to mail to
> listname at myhost.mydomain.com, yet your mysql alias seems to be
> required for you to mail to listname at mydomain.com.
> 
> Which domain do you want to use for your list mail?

mydomain.com - so lists would be just list at mydomain.com

Remember, I didn't set this up, I inherited it, so I'm trying to fix it.

>> 1. just one domain for list mail

> If that is the domain which is currently DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, which I
> gather is 'myhost.mydomain.com', then I think everything should work
> if you just mail to that domain.
> 
> So what is this domain?

That is it, but I don't want to have to use the host. part, because 
everyone is used to just list at mydomain.com.

>> 2. just one domain for web access

> And is this the DEFAULT_URL_HOST domain?

yes.

>> 3. it is a virtual domain in postfix, but it is the only one, and I 
>> don't see that changing.

> And which domain is this?

mydomain.com

I guess the problem is that whoever originally set this up used 
myhost.mydomain.com for the DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug  5 23:44:11 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:44:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question re: creating new lists from the GUI
In-Reply-To: <4898BE75.5070804@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: 

Simon wrote:

>On 8/5/2008 4:44 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> I don't think so. I'm confused at this point. Mailman and Postfix both
>> seem to be set up properly for you to mail to
>> listname at myhost.mydomain.com, yet your mysql alias seems to be
>> required for you to mail to listname at mydomain.com.
>> 
>> Which domain do you want to use for your list mail?
>
>mydomain.com - so lists would be just list at mydomain.com
>
>Remember, I didn't set this up, I inherited it, so I'm trying to fix it.
>
>>> 1. just one domain for list mail
>
>> If that is the domain which is currently DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, which I
>> gather is 'myhost.mydomain.com', then I think everything should work
>> if you just mail to that domain.
>> 
>> So what is this domain?
>
>That is it, but I don't want to have to use the host. part, because 
>everyone is used to just list at mydomain.com.
>
>>> 2. just one domain for web access
>
>> And is this the DEFAULT_URL_HOST domain?
>
>yes.
>
>>> 3. it is a virtual domain in postfix, but it is the only one, and I 
>>> don't see that changing.
>
>> And which domain is this?
>
>mydomain.com


OK. Here's what you want to do step by step.

in mm_cfg.py

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.com'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['mydomain.com']

This will set the default domain for email to mydomain.com which is
what you want.

Then the add_virtualhost will actually replace the entry in the
VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary which was set in Defaults.py with the 'wrong'
email host. It will replace rather than add because the keys
(DEFAULT_URL_HOST) are the same.

Then it will tell list creation to create virtual aliases for lists in
the mydomain.com domain.

Restart Mailman so the qrunner processes will pick up the changes to
mm_cfg.py.

The next step is to run Mailman's

  bin/withlist -a -l -r fix_url

which will change the host_name for all lists to mydomain.com.

Then you can run Mailman's

  bin/genaliases

to rebuild data/aliases* and data/virtual-mailman* with the correct
virtual domain.

Concurrent with this, you need to remove all the mysql virtual mappings
of the form

list at mydomain.com              list at myhost.mydomain.com

and

list-bounces at mydomain.com      list-bounces at myhost.mydomain.com

etc. if any, since they are now in the way.

Your Postfix main.cf should be OK.

That should set you up so future list creation/deletion will just work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug  6 02:12:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:12:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers suddenly "disappear" - SOLVED
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4898EC5D.10807@msapiro.net>

This thread moved to Mailman-Developers. See 
 
for the analysis.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au  Wed Aug  6 03:16:11 2008
From: Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au (Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 10:46:11 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options
Message-ID: 


Hello,

We are using Mailman 2.1.10.  For digests, how would I set which day of the
week, month, year, etc. that a digest is sent out?  For example, if I choose
Weekly digest, how do I set it to send with the week starting on Wednesday?  Or
if monthly, how do I choose the 15th?  The options listed in the GUI aren't very
specific.  What are the defaults?  Is there a way to setup a digest list that
does not send out ANY digests automatically but can be
generated/started/kicked-off through a cron job?

Regards,

Alan Rubin
Technician Unix
DCS Midrange Services
Phone: +61 (08) 8999 6814
Fax:      +61 (08) 8999 7493
e-Mail: alan.rubin at nt.gov.au


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug  6 03:45:19 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 18:45:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:
>
>We are using Mailman 2.1.10.  For digests, how would I set which day of the
>week, month, year, etc. that a digest is sent out?  For example, if I choose
>Weekly digest, how do I set it to send with the week starting on Wednesday?  Or
>if monthly, how do I choose the 15th?  The options listed in the GUI aren't very
>specific.  What are the defaults?


You misunderstand what those settings are for. They have nothing to do
with when digests are sent. Wach digest has a volume number and an
issue number. The issue number increments with each digest. The
digest_volume_frequency setting controls how often the issue number
resets to 1 and the volume number increments instead.

The things that control when digests are sent are first of all,
digest_size_threshhold. When the size of the mailbox file holding the
messages accummulated for the digest reaches that size, a digest will
be produced immediately regardless of when that is. The digest itself
may be a little smaller (or bigger if the triggering post was large)
due to removal of some headers and scrubbing of attachments.

In addition, if digest_send_periodic is set to Yes, the periodic
cron/senddigests will send a digest when it runs if there are any
messages for the digest at that time. Mailman's default crontab runs
cron/senddigests daily at noon local time.
	
	
>Is there a way to setup a digest list that
>does not send out ANY digests automatically but can be
>generated/started/kicked-off through a cron job?


That is effectively what happens if you set digest_size_threshhold
large enough so that you never trigger a digest on size before
cron/senddigests runs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au  Wed Aug  6 04:11:22 2008
From: Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au (Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:41:22 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options -> list configuration
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark,

Thanks for your answer.  It is very enlightening.

This is a bit of a tangent, but also has to do with 'interpretation' of
Mailman's configuration.  If you read/work with the list configuration from the
command line, using ~mailman/bin/config_list,  you will see many descriptions
that say something such as:

      # legal values are:
      #    0 = "No"
      #    1 = "Yes"

But then the current/default value will be listed as True or False, literally.
Which is it?  Are both 0/False and 1/True acceptable?

Regards,

Alan Rubin
Technician Unix
DCS Midrange Services
Phone: +61 (08) 8999 6814
Fax:      +61 (08) 8999 7493
e-Mail: alan.rubin at nt.gov.au


                                                                                
             Mark Sapiro                                                        
                                                              
                                                                             To 
             06/08/2008 11:15 AM         Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au,                  
                                         mailman-users at python.org               
                                                                             cc 
                                                                                
                                                                        Subject 
                                         Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest options     
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                




Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:
>
>We are using Mailman 2.1.10.  For digests, how would I set which day of the
>week, month, year, etc. that a digest is sent out?  For example, if I choose
>Weekly digest, how do I set it to send with the week starting on Wednesday?  Or
>if monthly, how do I choose the 15th?  The options listed in the GUI aren't
very
>specific.  What are the defaults?


You misunderstand what those settings are for. They have nothing to do
with when digests are sent. Wach digest has a volume number and an
issue number. The issue number increments with each digest. The
digest_volume_frequency setting controls how often the issue number
resets to 1 and the volume number increments instead.

The things that control when digests are sent are first of all,
digest_size_threshhold. When the size of the mailbox file holding the
messages accummulated for the digest reaches that size, a digest will
be produced immediately regardless of when that is. The digest itself
may be a little smaller (or bigger if the triggering post was large)
due to removal of some headers and scrubbing of attachments.

In addition, if digest_send_periodic is set to Yes, the periodic
cron/senddigests will send a digest when it runs if there are any
messages for the digest at that time. Mailman's default crontab runs
cron/senddigests daily at noon local time.


>Is there a way to setup a digest list that
>does not send out ANY digests automatically but can be
>generated/started/kicked-off through a cron job?


That is effectively what happens if you set digest_size_threshhold
large enough so that you never trigger a digest on size before
cron/senddigests runs.

--
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug  6 04:58:26 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 19:58:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options -> list configuration
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:
>
>Thanks for your answer.  It is very enlightening.
>
>This is a bit of a tangent, but also has to do with 'interpretation' of
>Mailman's configuration.  If you read/work with the list configuration from the
>command line, using ~mailman/bin/config_list,  you will see many descriptions
>that say something such as:
>
>      # legal values are:
>      #    0 = "No"
>      #    1 = "Yes"
>
>But then the current/default value will be listed as True or False, literally.
>Which is it?  Are both 0/False and 1/True acceptable?


Yes they are. At least assuming your Python is 2.3 or later, and
assuming the attribute is one with only "Yes" or "No" possibilities.
Prior to 2.3 there were no built-in constants True and False. Since
Mailman through 2.1.8 was compatible with Python back to 2.1, we used
0 and 1 instead of False and True as values or we used a kludge like

try:
    True, False
except NameError:
    True = 1
    False = 0

to define True and False if they weren't built in. Eventually, Mailman
will move to using True and False everywhere to represent truth value
constants, but even then, some old lists will still have 1 or 0 as the
value of some list attributes just because they were set that way at
one time and never changed.

However, all the above has to do with the actual attribute value shown
by config_list -o or set by config_list -i.

In the actual text

# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"

the 0 and 1 are the index of the radio button in the GUI for that
attribute

in the same way as, e.g.

# legal values are:
#    0 = "Accept"
#    1 = "Hold"
#    2 = "Reject"
#    3 = "Discard"

are the possible settings for generic_nonmember_action and

# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
#    2 = "Full Personalization"

are the possible settings for personalize.

The bottom line is if you see a setting reported as True or False, it's
OK to set it to False or True with config_list, but if the setting is
reported as 0 or 1, you can't be sure that the code doesn't somewhere
treat it as a number, so it is best to set it to a number.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hanfei4567 at 163.com  Wed Aug  6 05:44:02 2008
From: hanfei4567 at 163.com (hanfei4567)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:44:02 +0800 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] i can not open http://localhost/mailman/admin
Message-ID: <26303959.683551217994242169.JavaMail.coremail@bj163app123.163.com>

I am a new to mailman.I have installed mailman-2.1.11 twice, as the following steps,but i can not open http://localhost/mailman/admin 
In http.conf, i have already added: 
             ScriptAlias /mailman/  /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/  

Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/

    AddDefaultCharset Off

when i open http://localhost/mailman/admin, it shows Internal Server Error. So I get open error_log of http, it shows


[Wed Aug 06 01:02:49 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (13)Permission denied:     exec of '/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin' failed
[Wed Aug 06 01:02:49 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] Premature end of script headers: admin

Thanks to anyone who can give me help!




bash# groupadd mailman
bash# useradd -g mailman -M -s /sbin/nologin mailman
bash# mkdir -p /usr/local/mailman
bash# chown -R mailman.mailman /usr/local/mailman
bash# chmod -R 2775 /usr/local/mailman


INSTALL 

Running configure 
             bash# ./configure --with-mail-gid=mail --with-cgi-gid=root --prefix=/usr/local/mailman



install 


bash# make
bash# make install


Check install 


bash# cd /usr/local/mailman
bash# bin/check_perms
bash# bin/check_perms -f


Configure web server 


    ScriptAlias   /mailman/       $prefix/cgi-bin/



Copy the Mailman, Python, and GNU logos to proper dirs of your web server. 

bash# cp $prefix/icons/*.{jpg,png} /path/to/apache/images



Alias /pipermail/ $varprefix/archives/public/




    AddDefaultCharset Off


bash# service httpd restart



Configure email server 

? sendmail ??? 
 sendmail.mc: 


define(`ALIAS_FILE', `/etc/aliases,/etc/aliases.mailman')dnl


bash# m4 sendmail.mc > sendmail.cf
bash# touch /etc/aliases.mailman
bash# service sendmail restart


?? sendmail restricted shell (smrsh) 
Configure Mailman 

mm_cfg.py and Default.py ????? list ????????????????? list ??????? list ????????????? http://hostname/mailman/admin/ ?????? 
 

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug  6 06:21:36 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 21:21:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] i can not open http://localhost/mailman/admin
In-Reply-To: <26303959.683551217994242169.JavaMail.coremail@bj163app123.163.com>
Message-ID: 

hanfei4567 wrote:

>I am a new to mailman.I have installed mailman-2.1.11 twice, as the following steps,but i can not open http://localhost/mailman/admin 
>In http.conf, i have already added: 
>             ScriptAlias /mailman/  /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/  
>
>Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
>
>    AddDefaultCharset Off
>
>when i open http://localhost/mailman/admin, it shows Internal Server Error. So I get open error_log of http, it shows
>
>
>[Wed Aug 06 01:02:49 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (13)Permission denied:     exec of '/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin' failed
>[Wed Aug 06 01:02:49 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] Premature end of script headers: admin
>
>Thanks to anyone who can give me help!

>INSTALL 
>
>Running configure 
>             bash# ./configure --with-mail-gid=mail --with-cgi-gid=root --prefix=/usr/local/mailman


This (--with-cgi-gid=root) says Apache is going to execute your CGI
wrappers as group root. While this may be correct, it is certainly
unusual.



>Check install 
>
>
>bash# cd /usr/local/mailman
>bash# bin/check_perms
>bash# bin/check_perms -f


If you ran check_perms -f as root until there were no errors,
presumable the permissions on /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin and the
other wrappers are correct. I.e. like the following except perhaps for
owner

-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 15989 Jun 30 11:23 admin

If this is the case, in particular if the wrapper is world readable and
executable, there must be a SELinux or other security policy manager
infolved that's preventing access to the file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au  Wed Aug  6 06:29:45 2008
From: Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au (Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:59:45 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options -> list configuration
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark,

Back to Digests...

If these lines occur in mailman's crontab -

# Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold delivery.
0 12 * * * /opt/csw/bin/python -S /export/home/mailman/cron/senddigests

how will lists with digests enabled be affected?  If the list has a high
threshold, will it still have the contents of its digest sent?  Do options in
the configuration take precedence over the script?  If the intention is to
schedule sending of digests from cron for a particular list on specific days
only, will the script send the digest regardless of the threshold?  And, if you
disable the cronjob above, how will that affect any other lists on the mail
server where users arbitrarily choose to receive digests and list owners allow
this?

Thanks for your help,

Alan Rubin
Technician Unix
DCS Midrange Services
Phone: +61 (08) 8999 6814
Fax:      +61 (08) 8999 7493
e-Mail: alan.rubin at nt.gov.au


                                                                                
             Mark Sapiro                                                        
                                                              
                                                                             To 
             06/08/2008 12:28 PM         Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au,                  
                                         mailman-users at python.org               
                                                                             cc 
                                                                                
                                                                        Subject 
                                         Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest options ->  
                                         list configuration                     
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                




Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:
>
>Thanks for your answer.  It is very enlightening.
>
>This is a bit of a tangent, but also has to do with 'interpretation' of
>Mailman's configuration.  If you read/work with the list configuration from the
>command line, using ~mailman/bin/config_list,  you will see many descriptions
>that say something such as:
>
>      # legal values are:
>      #    0 = "No"
>      #    1 = "Yes"
>
>But then the current/default value will be listed as True or False, literally.
>Which is it?  Are both 0/False and 1/True acceptable?


Yes they are. At least assuming your Python is 2.3 or later, and
assuming the attribute is one with only "Yes" or "No" possibilities.
Prior to 2.3 there were no built-in constants True and False. Since
Mailman through 2.1.8 was compatible with Python back to 2.1, we used
0 and 1 instead of False and True as values or we used a kludge like

try:
    True, False
except NameError:
    True = 1
    False = 0

to define True and False if they weren't built in. Eventually, Mailman
will move to using True and False everywhere to represent truth value
constants, but even then, some old lists will still have 1 or 0 as the
value of some list attributes just because they were set that way at
one time and never changed.

However, all the above has to do with the actual attribute value shown
by config_list -o or set by config_list -i.

In the actual text

# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"

the 0 and 1 are the index of the radio button in the GUI for that
attribute

in the same way as, e.g.

# legal values are:
#    0 = "Accept"
#    1 = "Hold"
#    2 = "Reject"
#    3 = "Discard"

are the possible settings for generic_nonmember_action and

# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
#    2 = "Full Personalization"

are the possible settings for personalize.

The bottom line is if you see a setting reported as True or False, it's
OK to set it to False or True with config_list, but if the setting is
reported as 0 or 1, you can't be sure that the code doesn't somewhere
treat it as a number, so it is best to set it to a number.

--
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From lux-integ at btconnect.com  Wed Aug  6 11:46:54 2008
From: lux-integ at btconnect.com (b-vol)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 10:46:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] compile problems with mailman-2.1.10/11
Message-ID: <200808061046.54113.lux-integ@btconnect.com>

Greetings,

I am new to this list.  i have been trying to compile  mailman-2.1.10 and 
mailman-2.1.11 (I have compiled mailman successfully  a  couple of years 
ago ). The computer is  an athlon-based PC with LFS 
(linuxfromscratch) -kernel 2.6.25.8,  gcc-4.2.2,  openssl-0.98 is 
in /usr/local and python-2.5.2 is in /usr/. The compiler spews the following 
in both instances  (i.e.for mailman-2.1.10 and mailman-2.1.11):-



  File "bin/update", line 37, in 
    import md5
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/md5.py", line 6, in 
    from hashlib import md5
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/hashlib.py", line 133, in 
    md5 = __get_builtin_constructor('md5')
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/hashlib.py", line 60, in __get_builtin_constructor
    import _md5
ImportError: No module named _md5
make: *** [update] Error 1



help would be appreciated.

yours sincerely
lux-integ
-- 

###################################
As always it will be the poor proletarian and their children who will suffer 
from this economic downturn. The pampered plutocrats, need have no fears. 
They will merely look out on a bleak Dickensian landscape, and wonder why 
they don't eat cake. It was ever thus !
-jeff, Cardiff, UK

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Wed Aug  6 14:49:16 2008
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Simon)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 08:49:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question re: creating new lists from the GUI
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <48999DCC.3030801@libertytrek.org>

On 8/5/2008, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
> OK. Here's what you want to do step by step.

Thanks a lot Mark...

I'll report back as soon as I do this (which won't be until this 
weekend, to minimize the impact of any problems I might run into...

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug  6 16:29:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 07:29:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] compile problems with mailman-2.1.10/11
In-Reply-To: <200808061046.54113.lux-integ@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: 

b-vol wrote:
>
>I am new to this list.  i have been trying to compile  mailman-2.1.10 and 
>mailman-2.1.11 (I have compiled mailman successfully  a  couple of years 
>ago ). The computer is  an athlon-based PC with LFS 
>(linuxfromscratch) -kernel 2.6.25.8,  gcc-4.2.2,  openssl-0.98 is 
>in /usr/local and python-2.5.2 is in /usr/. The compiler spews the following 
>in both instances  (i.e.for mailman-2.1.10 and mailman-2.1.11):-
>
>
>
>  File "bin/update", line 37, in 
>    import md5
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/md5.py", line 6, in 
>    from hashlib import md5
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/hashlib.py", line 133, in 
>    md5 = __get_builtin_constructor('md5')
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/hashlib.py", line 60, in __get_builtin_constructor
>    import _md5
>ImportError: No module named _md5
>make: *** [update] Error 1


I've seen this exact problem myself. In my case, I had python 2.4.3
installed in /usr and I installed python 2.5.1 from source in
/usr/local. I don't remember the details, but I played around with
symlinks and made some progress, but ultimately removed python 2.5.1
and reinstalled it in /usr and that solved the problem.

This is not a Mailman problem, It is a Python installation problem. I
think if you just start an interactive Python and type 'import md5'
you'll see the same thing.

Try
.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug  6 16:48:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 07:48:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options -> list configuration
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:
>
>If these lines occur in mailman's crontab -
>
># Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold delivery.
>0 12 * * * /opt/csw/bin/python -S /export/home/mailman/cron/senddigests
>
>how will lists with digests enabled be affected?  If the list has a high
>threshold, will it still have the contents of its digest sent?


If digest_send_periodic is Yes, and the list has had at least one post
since the last digest, a digest will be sent when cron/senddigests
runs.


>Do options in
>the configuration take precedence over the script?


The only configuration option that affects cron/senddigests is
digest_send_periodic which controls whether or not cron/senddigests
will send a digest for this list.


>If the intention is to
>schedule sending of digests from cron for a particular list on specific days
>only, will the script send the digest regardless of the threshold?


Yes


>And, if you
>disable the cronjob above, how will that affect any other lists on the mail
>server where users arbitrarily choose to receive digests and list owners allow
>this?


If you disable cron/senddigests, no periodic digests will be sent for
any list. If you change the schedule, it will affect all lists.

You can run cron/senddigests for specific lists with a "-l listname"
option (run 'cron/senddigests -h' for info) so you could set up your
crontab to run 'cron/senddigests -l list1' on one schedule and
'cron/senddigests -l list2' on another, but the problem is there's no
"all lists except ..." option, so it becomes cumbersome.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it  Wed Aug  6 16:43:06 2008
From: Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it (Marco De Rossi)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 16:43:06 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and unknown e-mail address
Message-ID: 

Hello, we have installed "Mailman, the GNU Mailing List Manager" version
2.1.5

Is it possible to know if mailing list's members e-mail addresses are 
correct?

Sending e-mail to a mailing list with wrong e-mail address of some member, 
no error notification is sent to mailing list administrator or to sender.

Thanks.

    Marco De Rossi

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug  6 17:01:19 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 08:01:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and unknown e-mail address
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Marco De Rossi wrote:

>Hello, we have installed "Mailman, the GNU Mailing List Manager" version
>2.1.5


The current release is 2.1.11


>Is it possible to know if mailing list's members e-mail addresses are 
>correct?
>
>Sending e-mail to a mailing list with wrong e-mail address of some member, 
>no error notification is sent to mailing list administrator or to sender.


If you go to a list's admin interface Bounce processing page, you will
see a description of Mailman's bounce processing. Make sure that
bounce_processing and all the notifications are set to Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au  Thu Aug  7 00:40:42 2008
From: Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au (Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 08:10:42 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options -> list configuration
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark/All,

So, if digest_send_periodic is No (so that digests are not sent every day as
indicated by the default senddigests cron entry), senddigests will not force the
list to send a new digest even with the -l option?  If you host many lists and
one list/customer wants messages sent only on a specific schedule, and you don't
want to degrade the ability for the entire list server, then the only real
option is to cook up some recipe which keeps mail intended for the list in a
separate queue and only gets added to the list at the time that you want a
digest created and sent?

To be more specific about my scenario, we are attempting to migrate from
Majordomo to Mailman.  We have a list that sends out change control
notifications on a twice weekly basis.  In the majordomo configuration,
individual messages are collected in a work folder and when a Perl script called
'digests', written for majordomo, is run from cron, the messages in the work
folder are gathered into a single digest message and sent to the list
subscribers.

Perhaps I am taking the wrong approach with Mailman?  Is there another way to
deliver a similar service without cooking up my own scheme, or has someone
already contributed such a tool/scheme?

Regards,

Alan Rubin
Technician Unix
DCS Midrange Services
Phone: +61 (08) 8999 6814
Fax:      +61 (08) 8999 7493
e-Mail: alan.rubin at nt.gov.au


                                                                                
             Mark Sapiro                                                        
                                                              
                                                                             To 
             07/08/2008 12:18 AM         Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au,                  
                                         mailman-users at python.org               
                                                                             cc 
                                                                                
                                                                        Subject 
                                         Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest options ->  
                                         list configuration                     
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                




Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:
>
>If these lines occur in mailman's crontab -
>
># Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold delivery.
>0 12 * * * /opt/csw/bin/python -S /export/home/mailman/cron/senddigests
>
>how will lists with digests enabled be affected?  If the list has a high
>threshold, will it still have the contents of its digest sent?


If digest_send_periodic is Yes, and the list has had at least one post
since the last digest, a digest will be sent when cron/senddigests
runs.


>Do options in
>the configuration take precedence over the script?


The only configuration option that affects cron/senddigests is
digest_send_periodic which controls whether or not cron/senddigests
will send a digest for this list.


>If the intention is to
>schedule sending of digests from cron for a particular list on specific days
>only, will the script send the digest regardless of the threshold?


Yes


>And, if you
>disable the cronjob above, how will that affect any other lists on the mail
>server where users arbitrarily choose to receive digests and list owners allow
>this?


If you disable cron/senddigests, no periodic digests will be sent for
any list. If you change the schedule, it will affect all lists.

You can run cron/senddigests for specific lists with a "-l listname"
option (run 'cron/senddigests -h' for info) so you could set up your
crontab to run 'cron/senddigests -l list1' on one schedule and
'cron/senddigests -l list2' on another, but the problem is there's no
"all lists except ..." option, so it becomes cumbersome.

--
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug  7 01:43:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 16:43:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options -> list configuration
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:
>
>So, if digest_send_periodic is No (so that digests are not sent every day as
>indicated by the default senddigests cron entry), senddigests will not force the
>list to send a new digest even with the -l option?


Correct.


>If you host many lists and
>one list/customer wants messages sent only on a specific schedule, and you don't
>want to degrade the ability for the entire list server, then the only real
>option is to cook up some recipe which keeps mail intended for the list in a
>separate queue and only gets added to the list at the time that you want a
>digest created and sent?


There are other ways to address this. See below.


>To be more specific about my scenario, we are attempting to migrate from
>Majordomo to Mailman.  We have a list that sends out change control
>notifications on a twice weekly basis.  In the majordomo configuration,
>individual messages are collected in a work folder and when a Perl script called
>'digests', written for majordomo, is run from cron, the messages in the work
>folder are gathered into a single digest message and sent to the list
>subscribers.
>
>Perhaps I am taking the wrong approach with Mailman?  Is there another way to
>deliver a similar service without cooking up my own scheme, or has someone
>already contributed such a tool/scheme?


Here are a couple of possible approaches.

First the kludgy approach.

Set the crontab to run a script instead of cron/senddigests.

The script would be something like (warning! may have syntax errors)

#!/bin/sh
prefix=/path/to/mailman
special=the_special_listname
for list in `$prefix/bin/list_lists --bare`; do
  if [[ $list != $special ]] ; then
    $prefix/cron/senddigests -l $list
  fi
done

Then have a separate crontab entry to run
   cron/senddigests -l the_special_listname

The more elegant IMO approach.

Set the list in question digest_send_periodic = No

Copy cron/senddigests to cron/senddigests2 or whatever name you like
and make sure the copy is chmod +x

Change line 85 in the copy from

        if mlist.digest_send_periodic:

to

        if True:

Then add a separate crontab entry to run
   cron/senddigests2 -l the_special_listname

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au  Thu Aug  7 03:40:01 2008
From: Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au (Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 11:10:01 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options -> list configuration
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark,

I chose option two, but it didn't seem to work.  I am not a python programmer.
Is there a general switch to turn on simple debugging (a la -x in sh scripting).

I ran this:

su mailman -c "/opt/csw/bin/python -S /export/home/mailman/cron/senddigests_mod
-l change_notification"

and I got no errors or log messages that I can find, but the digest.mbox is
still full and I never received a digest in my mailbox.

Here is the edit to the copy, senddigests_mod:

    for listname in listnames:
        mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
        #if mlist.digest_send_periodic:
        if True:
            mlist.Lock()
            try:
                try:
                    mlist.send_digest_now()
                    mlist.Save()
                # We are unable to predict what exception may occur in digest
                # processing and we don't want to lose the other digests, so
                # we catch everything.
                except Exception, errmsg:
                    print >> sys.stderr, \
                      'List: %s: problem processing %s:\n%s' % \
                        (listname,
                         os.path.join(mlist.fullpath(), 'digest.mbox'),
                         errmsg)
            finally:
                mlist.Unlock()

The executable bit is set and the permission is the same as the original.  It is
owned by root with the executable bit set for all and in the group mailman.
Perhaps it needs to be owned by root as well?  The original cronjob was set in
mailman's crontab.

The list is also set correctly:
~mailman/bin/config_list -o - change_notification

# Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't
# reached?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
digest_send_periodic = 0


Regards,

Alan Rubin
Technician Unix
DCS Midrange Services
Phone: +61 (08) 8999 6814
Fax:      +61 (08) 8999 7493
e-Mail: alan.rubin at nt.gov.au



                                                                                
             Mark Sapiro                                                        
                                                              
                                                                             To 
             07/08/2008 09:13 AM         Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au,                  
                                         mailman-users at python.org               
                                                                             cc 
                                                                                
                                                                        Subject 
                                         Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest options ->  
                                         list configuration                     
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                




Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:
>
>So, if digest_send_periodic is No (so that digests are not sent every day as
>indicated by the default senddigests cron entry), senddigests will not force
the
>list to send a new digest even with the -l option?


Correct.


>If you host many lists and
>one list/customer wants messages sent only on a specific schedule, and you
don't
>want to degrade the ability for the entire list server, then the only real
>option is to cook up some recipe which keeps mail intended for the list in a
>separate queue and only gets added to the list at the time that you want a
>digest created and sent?


There are other ways to address this. See below.


>To be more specific about my scenario, we are attempting to migrate from
>Majordomo to Mailman.  We have a list that sends out change control
>notifications on a twice weekly basis.  In the majordomo configuration,
>individual messages are collected in a work folder and when a Perl script
called
>'digests', written for majordomo, is run from cron, the messages in the work
>folder are gathered into a single digest message and sent to the list
>subscribers.
>
>Perhaps I am taking the wrong approach with Mailman?  Is there another way to
>deliver a similar service without cooking up my own scheme, or has someone
>already contributed such a tool/scheme?


Here are a couple of possible approaches.

First the kludgy approach.

Set the crontab to run a script instead of cron/senddigests.

The script would be something like (warning! may have syntax errors)

#!/bin/sh
prefix=/path/to/mailman
special=the_special_listname
for list in `$prefix/bin/list_lists --bare`; do
  if [[ $list != $special ]] ; then
    $prefix/cron/senddigests -l $list
  fi
done

Then have a separate crontab entry to run
   cron/senddigests -l the_special_listname

The more elegant IMO approach.

Set the list in question digest_send_periodic = No

Copy cron/senddigests to cron/senddigests2 or whatever name you like
and make sure the copy is chmod +x

Change line 85 in the copy from

        if mlist.digest_send_periodic:

to

        if True:

Then add a separate crontab entry to run
   cron/senddigests2 -l the_special_listname

--
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug  7 04:49:12 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 19:49:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options -> list configuration
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:
>
>I chose option two, but it didn't seem to work.  I am not a python programmer.
>Is there a general switch to turn on simple debugging (a la -x in sh scripting).


No.


>I ran this:
>
>su mailman -c "/opt/csw/bin/python -S /export/home/mailman/cron/senddigests_mod
>-l change_notification"
>
>and I got no errors or log messages that I can find, but the digest.mbox is
>still full and I never received a digest in my mailbox.


Had it actually worked, lists/change_notification/digest.mbox would
have been removed.

I can't begin to guess what was wrong. You seem to have done everything
right. If there were some problem, there should have been something
written to your terminal/console.


>Here is the edit to the copy, senddigests_mod:
>
>    for listname in listnames:
>        mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
>        #if mlist.digest_send_periodic:
>        if True:
>            mlist.Lock()
>            try:
>                try:
>                    mlist.send_digest_now()
>                    mlist.Save()
>                # We are unable to predict what exception may occur in digest
>                # processing and we don't want to lose the other digests, so
>                # we catch everything.
>                except Exception, errmsg:
>                    print >> sys.stderr, \
>                      'List: %s: problem processing %s:\n%s' % \
>                        (listname,
>                         os.path.join(mlist.fullpath(), 'digest.mbox'),
>                         errmsg)
>            finally:
>                mlist.Unlock()
>
>The executable bit is set and the permission is the same as the original.  It is
>owned by root with the executable bit set for all and in the group mailman.
>Perhaps it needs to be owned by root as well?  The original cronjob was set in
>mailman's crontab.


It needs to actually run as group mailman, and if you run it as you
did, the execute bit is not needed. Everything looks fine for running
it as you did, and if the permissions weren't adequate, you would have
gotten an error.


>The list is also set correctly:
>~mailman/bin/config_list -o - change_notification
>
># Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't
># reached?
>#
># legal values are:
>#    0 = "No"
>#    1 = "Yes"
>digest_send_periodic = 0


This shouldn't matter for senddigests_mod at all. It only affects
whether the normal senddigests will send a digest for this list, which
it won't with the above setting.

You could try adding a print so

        if True:
            mlist.Lock()
            try:

becomes

        if True:
            print 'Processing' + listname
            mlist.Lock()
            try:

just to be sure it's getting there. It should print

Processing change_notification

when you run it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au  Thu Aug  7 06:22:05 2008
From: Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au (Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:52:05 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options -> list configuration
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark,

I put in the print line and there was no output when I ran the script.  And no
success either.

Regards,

Alan Rubin
Technician Unix
DCS Midrange Services
Phone: +61 (08) 8999 6814
Fax:      +61 (08) 8999 7493
e-Mail: alan.rubin at nt.gov.au


                                                                                
             Mark Sapiro                                                        
                                                              
             Sent by:                                                        To 
             mailman-users-bounc         Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au,                  
             es+alan.rubin=nt.go         mailman-users at python.org               
             v.au at python.org                                                 cc 
                                                                                
                                                                        Subject 
             07/08/2008 12:19 PM         Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest options ->  
                                         list configuration                     
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                




Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:
>
>I chose option two, but it didn't seem to work.  I am not a python programmer.
>Is there a general switch to turn on simple debugging (a la -x in sh
scripting).


No.


>I ran this:
>
>su mailman -c "/opt/csw/bin/python -S /export/home/mailman/cron/senddigests_mod
>-l change_notification"
>
>and I got no errors or log messages that I can find, but the digest.mbox is
>still full and I never received a digest in my mailbox.


Had it actually worked, lists/change_notification/digest.mbox would
have been removed.

I can't begin to guess what was wrong. You seem to have done everything
right. If there were some problem, there should have been something
written to your terminal/console.


>Here is the edit to the copy, senddigests_mod:
>
>    for listname in listnames:
>        mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
>        #if mlist.digest_send_periodic:
>        if True:
>            mlist.Lock()
>            try:
>                try:
>                    mlist.send_digest_now()
>                    mlist.Save()
>                # We are unable to predict what exception may occur in digest
>                # processing and we don't want to lose the other digests, so
>                # we catch everything.
>                except Exception, errmsg:
>                    print >> sys.stderr, \
>                      'List: %s: problem processing %s:\n%s' % \
>                        (listname,
>                         os.path.join(mlist.fullpath(), 'digest.mbox'),
>                         errmsg)
>            finally:
>                mlist.Unlock()
>
>The executable bit is set and the permission is the same as the original.  It
is
>owned by root with the executable bit set for all and in the group mailman.
>Perhaps it needs to be owned by root as well?  The original cronjob was set in
>mailman's crontab.


It needs to actually run as group mailman, and if you run it as you
did, the execute bit is not needed. Everything looks fine for running
it as you did, and if the permissions weren't adequate, you would have
gotten an error.


>The list is also set correctly:
>~mailman/bin/config_list -o - change_notification
>
># Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't
># reached?
>#
># legal values are:
>#    0 = "No"
>#    1 = "Yes"
>digest_send_periodic = 0


This shouldn't matter for senddigests_mod at all. It only affects
whether the normal senddigests will send a digest for this list, which
it won't with the above setting.

You could try adding a print so

        if True:
            mlist.Lock()
            try:

becomes

        if True:
            print 'Processing' + listname
            mlist.Lock()
            try:

just to be sure it's getting there. It should print

Processing change_notification

when you run it.

--
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From lux-integ at btconnect.com  Thu Aug  7 10:45:42 2008
From: lux-integ at btconnect.com (b-vol)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 09:45:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] compile problems with mailman-2.1.10/11
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200808070945.42678.lux-integ@btconnect.com>

On Wednesday 06 August 2008 03:29:13 pm Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I've seen this exact problem myself. In my case, I had python 2.4.3
> installed in /usr and I installed python 2.5.1 from source in
> /usr/local. I don't remember the details, but I played around with
> symlinks and made some progress, but ultimately removed python 2.5.1
> and reinstalled it in /usr and that solved the problem.
>
> This is not a Mailman problem, It is a Python installation problem. I
> think if you just start an interactive Python and type 'import md5'
> you'll see the same thing.
>

thanks for your help.

I  have python installed in /usr.  I also symlinked /usr/lib/md5.py (et al)  
and /usr/lib/hashlib.py(et al) to /usr/local/lib and it made no difference. 
The problem is not the compilation but the installation.  I notice just now 
that in the Makefile  the field DESTDIR is left blank.      Could this be 
what is causing the problems and  is so what could be a suitable fix?

suggestions welcomed

lux-integ
 
On Wednesday 06 August 2008 03:29:13 pm Mark Sapiro wrote:
> b-vol wrote:
> >I am new to this list.  i have been trying to compile  mailman-2.1.10 and
> >mailman-2.1.11 (I have compiled mailman successfully  a  couple of years
> >ago ). The computer is  an athlon-based PC with LFS
> >(linuxfromscratch) -kernel 2.6.25.8,  gcc-4.2.2,  openssl-0.98 is
> >in /usr/local and python-2.5.2 is in /usr/. The compiler spews the
> > following in both instances  (i.e.for mailman-2.1.10 and
> > mailman-2.1.11):-
> >
> >
> >
> >  File "bin/update", line 37, in 
> >    import md5
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/md5.py", line 6, in 
> >    from hashlib import md5
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/hashlib.py", line 133, in 
> >    md5 = __get_builtin_constructor('md5')
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/hashlib.py", line 60, in
> > __get_builtin_constructor import _md5
> >ImportError: No module named _md5
> >make: *** [update] Error 1
>
> I've seen this exact problem myself. In my case, I had python 2.4.3
> installed in /usr and I installed python 2.5.1 from source in
> /usr/local. I don't remember the details, but I played around with
> symlinks and made some progress, but ultimately removed python 2.5.1
> and reinstalled it in /usr and that solved the problem.
>
> This is not a Mailman problem, It is a Python installation problem. I
> think if you just start an interactive Python and type 'import md5'
> you'll see the same thing.
>
> Try
> _md5%22>.



-- 

###################################
As always it will be the poor proletarian and their children who will suffer 
from this economic downturn. The pampered plutocrats, need have no fears. 
They will merely look out on a bleak Dickensian landscape, and wonder why 
they don't eat cake. It was ever thus !
-jeff, Cardiff, UK

From Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it  Thu Aug  7 13:54:25 2008
From: Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it (Marco De Rossi)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:54:25 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and unknown e-mail address
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Thank you for the answer, all the notifications are set to Yes, but no 
error notification is sent to mailing list administrator or to sender.

Marco De Rossi


On Wed, 6 Aug 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Marco De Rossi wrote:
>
>> Hello, we have installed "Mailman, the GNU Mailing List Manager" version
>> 2.1.5
>
>
> The current release is 2.1.11
>
>
>> Is it possible to know if mailing list's members e-mail addresses are
>> correct?
>>
>> Sending e-mail to a mailing list with wrong e-mail address of some member,
>> no error notification is sent to mailing list administrator or to sender.
>
>
> If you go to a list's admin interface Bounce processing page, you will
> see a description of Mailman's bounce processing. Make sure that
> bounce_processing and all the notifications are set to Yes.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug  7 16:40:07 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 07:40:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] compile problems with mailman-2.1.10/11
In-Reply-To: <200808070945.42678.lux-integ@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: 

b-vol wrote:

>On Wednesday 06 August 2008 03:29:13 pm Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> I've seen this exact problem myself. In my case, I had python 2.4.3
>> installed in /usr and I installed python 2.5.1 from source in
>> /usr/local. I don't remember the details, but I played around with
>> symlinks and made some progress, but ultimately removed python 2.5.1
>> and reinstalled it in /usr and that solved the problem.
>>
>> This is not a Mailman problem, It is a Python installation problem. I
>> think if you just start an interactive Python and type 'import md5'
>> you'll see the same thing.
>>
>
>thanks for your help.
>
>I  have python installed in /usr.  I also symlinked /usr/lib/md5.py (et al)  
>and /usr/lib/hashlib.py(et al) to /usr/local/lib and it made no difference. 
>The problem is not the compilation but the installation.


During "make install" all the installed Mailman *.py files are compiled
to *.pyc byte code files. It is in this process that the error occurs.


>I notice just now 
>that in the Makefile  the field DESTDIR is left blank.      Could this be 
>what is causing the problems and  is so what could be a suitable fix?


No.

>suggestions welcomed


See below.


>On Wednesday 06 August 2008 03:29:13 pm Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> I've seen this exact problem myself. In my case, I had python 2.4.3
>> installed in /usr and I installed python 2.5.1 from source in
>> /usr/local. I don't remember the details, but I played around with
>> symlinks and made some progress, but ultimately removed python 2.5.1
>> and reinstalled it in /usr and that solved the problem.


I don't know what caused the error in my case, but I think it was not
installing 2.5.1 in /usr/local per se, but rather something to do with
leaving 2.4.3 installes and installing 2.5.1 along side in a different
path.


>> This is not a Mailman problem, It is a Python installation problem. I
>> think if you just start an interactive Python and type 'import md5'
>> you'll see the same thing.


Do the following

$python
>>> import md5

I am sure that will produce the same error, and should convince you
that the problem is with the python installation.


>> Try
>> .


Do that search and look at the results. You may find some help there.
If not, do the search without the site limitation
.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lux-integ at btconnect.com  Thu Aug  7 17:09:26 2008
From: lux-integ at btconnect.com (b-vol)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 16:09:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] compile problems with mailman-2.1.10/11
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200808071609.26302.lux-integ@btconnect.com>

On Thursday 07 August 2008 03:40:07 pm Mark Sapiro wrote:
> b-vol wrote:
> >On Wednesday 06 August 2008 03:29:13 pm Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >> I've seen this exact problem myself. In my case, I had python 2.4.3
> >> installed in /usr and I installed python 2.5.1 from source in
> >> /usr/local. I don't remember the details, but I played around with
> >> symlinks and made some progress, but ultimately removed python 2.5.1
> >> and reinstalled it in /usr and that solved the problem.
> >>
> >> This is not a Mailman problem, It is a Python installation problem. I
> >> think if you just start an interactive Python and type 'import md5'
> >> you'll see the same thing.
> >
> >thanks for your help.
> >
> >I  have python installed in /usr.  I also symlinked /usr/lib/md5.py (et
> > al) and /usr/lib/hashlib.py(et al) to /usr/local/lib and it made no
> > difference. The problem is not the compilation but the installation.
>
> During "make install" all the installed Mailman *.py files are compiled
> to *.pyc byte code files. It is in this process that the error occurs.
>
> >I notice just now
> >that in the Makefile  the field DESTDIR is left blank.      Could this be
> >what is causing the problems and  is so what could be a suitable fix?
>
> No.
>
> >suggestions welcomed
>
> See below.
>
> >On Wednesday 06 August 2008 03:29:13 pm Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >> I've seen this exact problem myself. In my case, I had python 2.4.3
> >> installed in /usr and I installed python 2.5.1 from source in
> >> /usr/local. I don't remember the details, but I played around with
> >> symlinks and made some progress, but ultimately removed python 2.5.1
> >> and reinstalled it in /usr and that solved the problem.
>
> I don't know what caused the error in my case, but I think it was not
> installing 2.5.1 in /usr/local per se, but rather something to do with
> leaving 2.4.3 installes and installing 2.5.1 along side in a different
> path.
>
> >> This is not a Mailman problem, It is a Python installation problem. I
> >> think if you just start an interactive Python and type 'import md5'
> >> you'll see the same thing.
>
> Do the following
>
> $python
>
> >>> import md5
>
> I am sure that will produce the same error, and should convince you
> that the problem is with the python installation.
>
> >> Try
> >>  >>d+_md5%22>.
>
> Do that search and look at the results. You may find some help there.
> If not, do the search without the site limitation
> .

I now have the problem solved.  You were absolutely right.  I seemed to have 
had a fragment   of python in another place as  /usr/local/lib/python2.5  
probably from an aborted installation.  I had re-installed python-2.5.2  
in /usr  with this in place  and kept getting the compile fails.  But  
when I deleted this fragment and reinstaled python in /usr/  the 
mailman-2.1.11 installation  went to completion.  The  problem seems to 
be 'bin/update'  which runs only on new installations   (where there is not 
already a mailing list configured).

Thanks for all you help.

sincerely
lux-ineg  


-- 

###################################
As always it will be the poor proletarian and their children who will suffer 
from this economic downturn. The pampered plutocrats, need have no fears. 
They will merely look out on a bleak Dickensian landscape, and wonder why 
they don't eat cake. It was ever thus !
-jeff, Cardiff, UK

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug  7 17:34:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 08:34:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] compile problems with mailman-2.1.10/11
In-Reply-To: <200808071609.26302.lux-integ@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: 

b-vol wrote:

>The  problem seems to 
>be 'bin/update'  which runs only on new installations   (where there is not 
>already a mailing list configured).


The problem appeared when bin/update did "import md5", but if
bin/update hadn't run, Mailman would have encountered the same problem
in operation because the SecurityManager.py module also does "import
md5" and this in turn is imported by the MailList.py module which is
imported by anything that touches a list.

Also, the only time bin/update doesn't run on a "make install" is when
the install is to a "DESTDIR" as when making a package for
distribution. In the normal case, it always runs, and since its
purpose is to update an existing installation's data and lists as
necessary for the newly installed version, it would make no sense if
it only ran on a "new" installation where by definition, it has
nothing to do.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug  7 18:08:04 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 09:08:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and unknown e-mail address
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Marco De Rossi wrote:

>Thank you for the answer, all the notifications are set to Yes, but no 
>error notification is sent to mailing list administrator or to sender.


The sender should never receive a bounce. The sender doesn't control
the list membership and can't do anything about a bounce anyway. Only
a badly broken MTA will return a bounce to the sender. Bounces should
be returned to the envelope sender which is the listname-bounces at ...
address.

In the normal case of a bounce being returned to Mailman and 'scored',
no notice is sent. A notice is sent only if the bounce is not one
Mailman can parse or if it results in the member's delivery being
disabled.

If you have access to Mailman's logs, look at the bounce log. It will
tell you which members have bounced. In any case, make sure the
listname-bounces at ... address is delivered to Mailman. If you send an
ordinary email to listname-bounces at ... you should receive an
unrecognized bounce notification containing that message. If not,
something is wrong with your list mail delivery (aliases, MTA).

Finally, you need to make sure that bounce_score_threshold and
bounce_info_stale_after are set appropriately for the frequency of
list posts. bounce_info_stale_after needs to be at least as many days
as the maximum number of days between posts, otherwise you will lose
good bounce information as stale. Also, for lists with less than daily
activity, bounce_score_threshold should probably be less than the
default 5.0.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jaione at vascosmexico.com  Thu Aug  7 20:49:20 2008
From: jaione at vascosmexico.com (Jaione Arrieta Galarraga)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:49:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] about replying
Message-ID: 

I have a mailman list and I would like to know how to change the reply
settings from bounce-namelist at namelist.com to administrator at namelist.com ,
cause all the messages received now to the list come with this address
bounce-namelist at namelist.com .

I had a mailman list which did that but I just change hosting and installed
mailman again but is not working as before.

 

If a subscriber unsubscribe from the list they receive a message asking why
they are unsubscribing from  bounce-namelist at namelist.com and if they reply
to the message giving me their reasons the addresse they reply to is no
valid bounce-namelist at namelist.com as before when they received the message
from administrator at namelist.com  so they could reply to and arrived to the
administrator inbox

 

 


From syskmr at nmsu.edu  Thu Aug  7 21:49:36 2008
From: syskmr at nmsu.edu (Keith Risinger)
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:49:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Owners Lists
Message-ID: <489AFD70.30160.4824CE77@syskmr.nmsu.edu>



Hello,

Is there some way an owner can get a listing of all they lists they are
owners of? I've not found anything in the admin pages. As the site manager,
I know about the list_admins, list_owners commands. It be helpful for an
owner to get their own lists themselves.

Thanks,
 Keith

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug  7 22:37:57 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:37:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] about replying
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Jaione Arrieta Galarraga wrote:

>I have a mailman list and I would like to know how to change the reply
>settings from bounce-namelist at namelist.com to administrator at namelist.com ,
>cause all the messages received now to the list come with this address
>bounce-namelist at namelist.com .
>
>I had a mailman list which did that but I just change hosting and installed
>mailman again but is not working as before.


Was your old version 2.0.x. If so, 2.1.x is much different. If this is
a general question, see .


>If a subscriber unsubscribe from the list they receive a message asking why
>they are unsubscribing from  bounce-namelist at namelist.com and if they reply
>to the message giving me their reasons the addresse they reply to is no
>valid bounce-namelist at namelist.com as before when they received the message
>from administrator at namelist.com  so they could reply to and arrived to the
>administrator inbox


If you are talking specifically about the "results of your email
commands" message that is sent to the user when unsubscribe requires
owner approval, you raise a good point about this coming From:
list-owner rather than list-bounces, but changing this requires
changing the code in Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py, and the
straightforward way to do it would make all responses to email
commands be From: the list-owner. This may not be a bad thing, but I'm
not sure.

What do people think about having all "results of your email commands"
messages come From: list-owner instead of list-bounces? The envelope
would still be from list-bounces for bounce processing.

Note that in response to an earlier thread
,
I already changed the rejected post message to be From: list-owner

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug  7 22:44:28 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:44:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Owners Lists
In-Reply-To: <489AFD70.30160.4824CE77@syskmr.nmsu.edu>
Message-ID: 

Keith Risinger wrote:
>
>Is there some way an owner can get a listing of all they lists they are
>owners of? I've not found anything in the admin pages. As the site manager,
>I know about the list_admins, list_owners commands. It be helpful for an
>owner to get their own lists themselves.


The commands you mention are it. There's no web or email way for an
owner to get a listing of lists owned.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug  8 03:50:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:50:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options -> list configuration
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <489BA649.1000505@msapiro.net>

Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:

> I put in the print line and there was no output when I ran the
> script.  And no success either.


After some off list back and forth, Alan determined that the problem was 
that the mailman user had /bin/false as a login shell. Once that was 
changed, the script worked as expected.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug  8 06:48:55 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 23:48:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options -> list configuration
In-Reply-To: <489BA649.1000505@msapiro.net>
References: 
	<489BA649.1000505@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: 

On 8/7/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  After some off list back and forth, Alan determined that the problem was
>  that the mailman user had /bin/false as a login shell. Once that was
>  changed, the script worked as expected.

Was this on a Solaris box?  I've had problems with them lately not 
allowing cron jobs to run under a specific userid, even if they were 
in the /etc/cron.allow list, unless the user had a valid password 
hash and a valid shell.

One of the more screwed-up things I've seen from a Solaris box 
lately, I tell you....

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug  8 16:30:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 07:30:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options -> list configuration
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 8/7/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>  After some off list back and forth, Alan determined that the problem was
>>  that the mailman user had /bin/false as a login shell. Once that was
>>  changed, the script worked as expected.
>
>Was this on a Solaris box?  I've had problems with them lately not 
>allowing cron jobs to run under a specific userid, even if they were 
>in the /etc/cron.allow list, unless the user had a valid password 
>hash and a valid shell.


No, I don't think this was Solaris, but the problem is that bin/false
is a 'valid' shell except that all it does is return an error without
running any commands.

So when the user tested with

  su mailman -c "path_to_python -S path_to_script args"

or

  su mailman -c "path_to_script args"

su passed the command to bin/false which happily exited with a failure
status that the user never saw and the command was never run.

Also, after the fact, he discovered entries in the cron log indicating
mailman's crons were failing, but this was a new installation, and he
hadn't yet noticed the symptoms of this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From webmaster at stc.org  Fri Aug  8 17:01:30 2008
From: webmaster at stc.org (Webmaster PF)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 11:01:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering SPAM/ Out of Office
Message-ID: 

I have not been able to locate a reference for this in the FAQ so I would appreciate if someone can point it out for me. Thanks.

 

1.	How to filter out ?Out of Office? replies to the list.
2.	Is there a way to prevent duplicate postings when people cross post?

 

-Shaf


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1599 - Release Date: 8/7/2008 8:49 PM
 

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Fri Aug  8 17:59:01 2008
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 09:59:01 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options -> list configuration
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <200808081559.m78Fx1Rk002594@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Brad Knowles has said:
> 
> On 8/7/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> >  After some off list back and forth, Alan determined that the problem was
> >  that the mailman user had /bin/false as a login shell. Once that was
> >  changed, the script worked as expected.
> 
> Was this on a Solaris box?  I've had problems with them lately not 
> allowing cron jobs to run under a specific userid, even if they were 
> in the /etc/cron.allow list, unless the user had a valid password 
> hash and a valid shell.
> 
> One of the more screwed-up things I've seen from a Solaris box 
> lately, I tell you....
> 
Nothing particularly "screwed up" about Solaris as a platform for
mailman.  When setting up the mailman account, set up the account as a
normal account, then use vipw to edit /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow. 
Just delete specification of any shell from the passwd line.

Shadow line should look like:
mailman:NP:::::::

The letters "NP" in the password hash field are important.  But there
are already plenty of examples in the file for you to follow.

When setting up the crontab, and changing it, su from root to mailman,
and follow the Solaris instructions.  They are in the man pages.  

You don't need to fuss with cron.allow and cron.deny to get cron to
process the mailman crontab.  

Just because:
Solaris isn't Linux, and sendmail isn't Postfix, isn't a reason to
call either one of them "screwed up."  The Mailman build-install
instructions work just fine on Solaris/sendmail, if you pay attention
to doing things the Solaris way, and treat Mailman as "just another 
sendmail user" on an existing and functioning sendmail installation.

julie:vancleef:$ uptime
  9:54am  up 194 day(s), 17:24,  3 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.01,
0.02

It would be longer than that if we hadn't had a power outage shutown
last winter.

Hank

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug  8 18:03:19 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 09:03:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering SPAM/ Out of Office
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Webmaster PF wrote:
>
>1.	How to filter out "Out of Office" replies to the list.


There is no good way. You might be able to use Privacy options... ->
Spam filters -> header_filter_rules for this if you can figure out a
regexp to match against headers to identify them.

Otherwise, you need a custom handler for this
.


>2.	Is there a way to prevent duplicate postings when people cross post?


You can use the regular_exclude_lists feature of Mailman 2.1.11 for
this. Prior to 2.1.11, there's no way.

See Non-digest options in the admin web interface.


-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Aug  8 18:25:46 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 01:25:46 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Filtering SPAM/ Out of Office
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <87r68zo4mt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Webmaster PF writes:

 > 1.	How to filter out Out of Office replies to the list.

This is almost impossible to do genericly, because the presence of an
autoreply to the list indicates that that member is using stupid
software (it's very easy to detect a standard mailing list post
because it contains a List-Id field in the header, and a good
autoreply program won't reply in that case).  That in turn means it
could say almost anything, and won't conform to any standard format.

You probably do know what format these members use, but Mailman
currently (2.1.x) doesn't provide ways to filter on message body
content.  You probably will get better performance from using an
external filter (eg, your spam-checker) to remove these posts, as
well.

 > 2.	Is there a way to prevent duplicate postings when people cross post?

No.  This cannot be done reliably because Mailman does not have a
central database of users, so it would need a (very expensive) scan of
list memberships to check whether the current addressee is a member of
other lists.  Unless your members are in the habit of attaching "video
minutes" of hour-long meetings, it's more efficient to use a received
messages database on the user end, anyway.


From syskmr at nmsu.edu  Fri Aug  8 20:01:39 2008
From: syskmr at nmsu.edu (Keith Risinger)
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 12:01:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Owners Lists
In-Reply-To: 
References: <489AFD70.30160.4824CE77@syskmr.nmsu.edu>,
	
Message-ID: <489C35A3.4820.4CE852F0@syskmr.nmsu.edu>


Thanks Mark, just wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something somewhere.

Keith



On 7 Aug 2008 at 13:44, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Keith Risinger wrote:
> >
> >Is there some way an owner can get a listing of all they lists they are
> >owners of? I've not found anything in the admin pages. As the site manager,
> >I know about the list_admins, list_owners commands. It be helpful for an
> >owner to get their own lists themselves.
> 
> 
> The commands you mention are it. There's no web or email way for an
> owner to get a listing of lists owned.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 



From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug  8 20:22:20 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:22:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest options -> list configuration
In-Reply-To: <200808081559.m78Fx1Rk002594@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200808081559.m78Fx1Rk002594@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <489C8EDC.2040208@shub-internet.org>

Hank van Cleef wrote:

> Just because:
> Solaris isn't Linux, and sendmail isn't Postfix, isn't a reason to
> call either one of them "screwed up."

You picked a really bad analogy to make with me.


I've been administering Suns for almost twenty years, since the SunOS 4.0.2 
days.  I still vividly remember the dreckage and bletchery that was called 
Solaris when 2.0 was shipped.  Back in the day, 2.5.1 was the first version 
that was even minimally acceptable, although it has long since been 
overtaken by events.  I've got four Ultra 10 clones sitting in a room at a 
storage facility, because I haven't had space for them since my wife and I 
moved back to the US in 2006.

Likewise, I was the Sendmail FAQ maintainer in 1995, and I was materially 
involved in the very early days of what was originally called IBM VMailer in 
1998, back before Wietse decided to rename it "postfix" and make the 
official launch at the SANE'98 conference where he and I spoke back-to-back 
on the same stage.  There are a number of features in each program that I 
can proudly claim that I was the first to strongly advocate them, or I was 
the first to report their malfunctioning.  You can check the source code if 
you don't believe me.  Just search for my name.

I've been administering Linux since the kernel 2.0.x days, and of all of the 
above mentioned subjects, it's actually the thing I know the least about.


Just because you think you hear me saying things that you've heard from 
other people who have been making snap judgements without adequate 
information, is not necessarily a valid reason to assume that I'm actually 
doing the same.

You admonish me to do my homework on the OSes or MTAs in question before I 
pass judgement, and I admonish you to do your homework before you pass 
judgement on me without adequate information.


When I say that Solaris is screwed-up, I have two decades of experience that 
tells me that it is actually, really, honestly, well and truly screwed-up. 
At least with regards to this particular area.  They may have made 
improvements in lots of other areas, but this is one area where they have 
gone way backwards.

> julie:vancleef:$ uptime
>   9:54am  up 194 day(s), 17:24,  3 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.01,
> 0.02

And I've had machines with an uptime over 1000 days.  Big deal.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Fri Aug  8 20:44:32 2008
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 03:44:32 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]   Filtering SPAM/ Out of Office
In-Reply-To: <87r68zo4mt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: 
	<87r68zo4mt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <87od43ny7j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Stephen J. Turnbull writes:

 >  > 2. Is there a way to prevent duplicate postings when people cross post?
 > 
 > No.  This cannot be done reliably

I'll stand by that if you want 100.00% exclusion, but Mark's
suggestion of regular_exclude_lists should work 99% of the time, for
most Mailman sites with a stock installation.


From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Fri Aug  8 20:54:03 2008
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Knabe, Troy)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 11:54:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail performance
Message-ID: 

I am quite certain that this is the answer to my issue, as I see the Mailman messages being routed through my spam filter 2x as it enters/leaves queues.  But when I tried to impliment it sendmail quit listening on port 25.  Anyone else experience issues with this solution?  Any suggestions?  Thanks Troy


You can do this without modifying your sendmail files at all. Instead, in your startup script, add:

        /usr/sbin/sendmail -bd -ODeliveryMode=defer \
                -ODaemonPortOptions=Name=MSA,Port=NNNN,M=E,Addr=127.0.0.1

Where NNNN is some port number not otherwise used (you can test if something's in use by doing "telnet localhost NNNN" - if it's refused, there's no daemon listening)

This sets up a sendmail process listening to the alternate port, in DEFER mode, but set to talk only to the localhost interface, so it's not accessible by anyoneother than your local machine: no open relay problems.

To make mailman access that port, add this to your mm_cfg.py:

 # define alternate SMTP port
 SMTPPORT = 1313


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug  8 21:04:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 12:04:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail performance
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Knabe, Troy wrote:
>
>You can do this without modifying your sendmail files at all. Instead, in your startup script, add:
>
>        /usr/sbin/sendmail -bd -ODeliveryMode=defer \
>                -ODaemonPortOptions=Name=MSA,Port=NNNN,M=E,Addr=127.0.0.1


Did you ADD that, or replace something with that?

I know little about sendmail, but I think that is supposed to start an
additional sendmail daemon to listen on localhost:NNNN. It should have
no effect on other sendmail daemons.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Fri Aug  8 21:11:04 2008
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Knabe, Troy)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 12:11:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail performance
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

So my sendmail start script included /usr/sbin/sendmail -bd -q5m

So I made it  /usr/sbin/sendmail -bd -ODeliveryMode=defer \
       -ODaemonPortOptions=Name=MSA,Port=1313,M=E,Addr=127.0.0.1


On 8/8/08 12:04 PM, "Mark Sapiro"  wrote:

Knabe, Troy wrote:
>
>You can do this without modifying your sendmail files at all. Instead, in your startup script, add:
>
>        /usr/sbin/sendmail -bd -ODeliveryMode=defer \
>                -ODaemonPortOptions=Name=MSA,Port=NNNN,M=E,Addr=127.0.0.1


Did you ADD that, or replace something with that?

I know little about sendmail, but I think that is supposed to start an
additional sendmail daemon to listen on localhost:NNNN. It should have
no effect on other sendmail daemons.

--
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Aug  8 21:15:14 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 12:15:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail performance
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <200808081912.m78JCavH013239@newbox.eroded.org>

Knabe, Troy wrote:
>So my sendmail start script included /usr/sbin/sendmail -bd -q5m
>
>So I made it  /usr/sbin/sendmail -bd -ODeliveryMode=defer \
>        -ODaemonPortOptions=Name=MSA,Port=1313,M=E,Addr=127.0.0.1
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Put the original line back in, then just add the second one. You need 
them both so it listens on both port 25 and the alternate port.

That will do what you want and maintain the original sendmail functionality.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Fri Aug  8 21:57:47 2008
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 14:57:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering SPAM/ Out of Office
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <2D6B78CA-385E-477F-85B7-A8E9EA5AED82@goldmark.org>

On Aug 8, 2008, at 10:01 AM, Webmaster PF wrote:

> 1.	How to filter out ?Out of Office? replies to the list.

I have found that putting the first few users who use broken  
autoresponders into a pillory has some deterrent effect, but memories  
need to be refreshed occasionally.

If for piddling legal or other constraints such as not finding a  
pillory in working order prevent you from using that approach, I tend  
to set "no mail" for those uses, and if there is reason to believe  
that it is a site wide problem, I may bar users from that site, or at  
least threaten to, always informing the postmaster of the site with  
the broken autoresponders.

I also direct people to my out-of-date rant on the subject.

  http://www.goldmark.org/netrants/auto-resp/

-j



-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug  8 22:20:40 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:20:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering SPAM/ Out of Office
In-Reply-To: <2D6B78CA-385E-477F-85B7-A8E9EA5AED82@goldmark.org>
References: 
	<2D6B78CA-385E-477F-85B7-A8E9EA5AED82@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <489CAA98.9060403@shub-internet.org>

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

> If for piddling legal or other constraints such as not finding a pillory 
> in working order prevent you from using that approach, I tend to set "no 
> mail" for those uses, and if there is reason to believe that it is a 
> site wide problem, I may bar users from that site, or at least threaten 
> to, always informing the postmaster of the site with the broken 
> autoresponders.

For the mailman-users mailing list, if you have a broken auto-responder, the 
first thing I will do is to set you moderated and nomail.

If you repeat the mistake, or you have a particularly bad auto-responder 
that actually responds to the "From:" and "Cc:" headers (so that the message 
goes out to the entire list), then I will unsubscribe you and ban you from 
re-subscribing.  In that case, if you want to get back on the list, you will 
need to come talk to me and convince me that you will never make this 
mistake again.


After you get out of the doghouse, if you repeat the mistake again, then I 
will unsubscribe and ban everyone from your domain, and you won't ever be 
getting back on the list, at least not while I'm around.


So far, I have not had to unsubscribe and ban everyone from a given domain, 
but I've come close.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Fri Aug  8 23:19:52 2008
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Knabe, Troy)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 14:19:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail performance
In-Reply-To: <200808081912.m78JCavH013239@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: 

So that works, but I am still seeing 7 minutes where the messages are staying in the sendmail queue. Sendmail is configured to re-run the queue every 5 minutes so the extra 2 is about right for how long it takes to go through the other messages in the queue first.  But why does the message hit the sendmail queue instead of being delivered directly?  Here is an output of mailq

m78LJSTa027726      467 Fri Aug  8 14:19 
                     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post


On 8/8/08 12:15 PM, "Dragon"  wrote:

Knabe, Troy wrote:
>So my sendmail start script included /usr/sbin/sendmail -bd -q5m
>
>So I made it  /usr/sbin/sendmail -bd -ODeliveryMode=defer \
>        -ODaemonPortOptions=Name=MSA,Port=1313,M=E,Addr=127.0.0.1
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Put the original line back in, then just add the second one. You need
them both so it listens on both port 25 and the alternate port.

That will do what you want and maintain the original sendmail functionality.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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From brad at python.org  Fri Aug  8 23:40:35 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:40:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail performance
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <489CBD53.8030900@python.org>

Knabe, Troy wrote:

> So that works, but I am still seeing 7 minutes where the messages are
> staying in the sendmail queue. Sendmail is configured to re-run the
> queue every 5 minutes so the extra 2 is about right for how long it
> takes to go through the other messages in the queue first. But why
> does the message hit the sendmail queue instead of being delivered
> directly?

You start up the secondary copy of sendmail in deferred mode.  This means 
that *EVERYTHING* hits the queue first-thing, and no delivery attempt is 
made until the queue runner gets to it.

That's the point of deferred mode.  If you don't want that, the you need to 
start up in something other than deferred mode.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  9 01:33:57 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 16:33:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail performance
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Knabe, Troy wrote:

>So that works, but I am still seeing 7 minutes where the messages are staying in the sendmail queue. Sendmail is configured to re-run the queue every 5 minutes so the extra 2 is about right for how long it takes to go through the other messages in the queue first.  But why does the message hit the sendmail queue instead of being delivered directly? 


See Brad's reply. Also ...


>Here is an output of mailq
>
>m78LJSTa027726      467 Fri Aug  8 14:19 
>                     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post


This is an incoming message to be delivered to Mailman. The second copy
of sendmail you started was for delivery of outgoing Mail from
Mailman. It has nothing to do with this message.

However, the above does seem strange. Clearly sendmail has processed
this message to the point of seeing the alias and converting the
address to the pipe (I assume list name just got lost in the
copy/paste). I don't know why it didn't just deliver it at that point.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From james at dunndealpr.com  Sat Aug  9 02:51:08 2008
From: james at dunndealpr.com (James - Dunn Deal PR)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 17:51:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] several questions.
Message-ID: <049601c8f9ba$04e997b0$6601a8c0@desk>

Hey all. I run a publicity company, and we regularly email mp3s to our email
list of a couple thousand DJs. I have MailMan on my Plesk server interface,
and I?m wondering if MM can help make that process easier for me. A few
questions.

 

 

 

 

1.	Does MailMan support attachments? I read that it does, but I want to
be sure. MM is no good to me if it doesn?t.
2.	Can I put a custom message in the subscription email that people
receive when I add them to the mailing list? That way they know exactly who
I am when they receive the subscription email.
3.	If someone replies to the email I send them via MM, where is that
email sent to? The email address I used to send the message to my MM list
for distribution? Or the mailing list email itself? And in that case, where
do I go to read it?
4.	Thirty minutes ago I added two of my email addresses to a test list
(djs at dunndealpr.com), then I sent an email with a 4MB mp3 attached to
djs at dunndealpr.com. Neither of those email addresses have received that
email yet. Did I do it right? How long does MM normally take to send? If I
was to send the same email to, say, 1,000 contacts, how long should I
reasonably expect it to take for everyone to receive the email?
5.	The Plesk pdf tells me I can access the mailing list by going to
http://lists./mailman/admin/ (in my case,
http://lists.dunndealpr.com/mailman/admin/djs), but when I do so I receive
an error message. Why?

 

 

 

Thanks in advance for your help. I?m new to all this.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  9 03:58:11 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 18:58:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] several questions.
In-Reply-To: <049601c8f9ba$04e997b0$6601a8c0@desk>
Message-ID: 

James - Dunn Deal PR wrote:

>1.	Does MailMan support attachments? I read that it does, but I want to
>be sure. MM is no good to me if it doesn?t.


Mailman has optional content filtering. If you turn it off, Mailman
will pass the message to the list with all attachment's intact, or you
can set it to pass or remove only some attachments based on file
extension (.mp3 etc) or content type (audio/mpeg, etc).


>2.	Can I put a custom message in the subscription email that people
>receive when I add them to the mailing list? That way they know exactly who
>I am when they receive the subscription email.


Yes.


>3.	If someone replies to the email I send them via MM, where is that
>email sent to? The email address I used to send the message to my MM list
>for distribution? Or the mailing list email itself? And in that case, where
>do I go to read it?


You control these things. See  for tips on
setting up an announce list which is what I think you want.


>4.	Thirty minutes ago I added two of my email addresses to a test list
>(djs at dunndealpr.com), then I sent an email with a 4MB mp3 attached to
>djs at dunndealpr.com. Neither of those email addresses have received that
>email yet. Did I do it right? How long does MM normally take to send?


Is Mailman running on your server? Normally, this should take only a
bit longer than just mailing the file to the two addresses. See
.


>If I
>was to send the same email to, say, 1,000 contacts, how long should I
>reasonably expect it to take for everyone to receive the email?


It depends mostly on the bandwidth of your servers connection to the
internet. How long does it take to push up to 4GB through that pipe.


>5.	The Plesk pdf tells me I can access the mailing list by going to
>http://lists./mailman/admin/ (in my case,
>http://lists.dunndealpr.com/mailman/admin/djs), but when I do so I receive
>an error message. Why?


Because the name lists.dunndealpr.com is not known to DNS. I can get to
your admin login page at the URL
. You either need to set up
Mailman with your web domain as dunndealpr.com or www.dunndealpr.com
or some other known domain or you have to set up a DNS A or CNAME
record for lists.dunndealpr.com.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Jan at Bytesmiths.com  Sat Aug  9 04:41:41 2008
From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 19:41:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] several questions.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <11C2DD48-C405-46CF-ABDF-D11D88F8AA25@Bytesmiths.com>

> From: Mark Sapiro 
>
> James - Dunn Deal PR wrote:
>
>> 1.	Does MailMan support attachments? I read that it does, but I  
>> want to
>> be sure. MM is no good to me if it doesn?t.
>
> Mailman has optional content filtering. If you turn it off, Mailman
> will pass the message to the list with all attachment's intact


Except (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that  
digests never have attachments.

So if you allow attachments, and expect people to receive them, you  
should disable digest mode.

:::: Real peace in a petroleum-fueled world means rejecting petroleum  
dependence in all possible ways. -- Jan Lundberg ::::
:::: Jan Steinman (a fossil-fuel-free zone)  ::::



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  9 05:18:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 20:18:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] several questions.
In-Reply-To: <11C2DD48-C405-46CF-ABDF-D11D88F8AA25@Bytesmiths.com>
Message-ID: 

Jan Steinman wrote:

>> From: Mark Sapiro 
>>
>> James - Dunn Deal PR wrote:
>>
>>> 1.	Does MailMan support attachments? I read that it does, but I  
>>> want to
>>> be sure. MM is no good to me if it doesn't.
>>
>> Mailman has optional content filtering. If you turn it off, Mailman
>> will pass the message to the list with all attachment's intact
>
>
>Except (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that  
>digests never have attachments.
>
>So if you allow attachments, and expect people to receive them, you 
>should disable digest mode.


All the attachments that were included in the individual messages sent
to a list (i.e. not removed by content filtering) are in the MIME
format digest.

Attachments of types other than plain text are scrubbed from the plain
format digest and stored in the archive and replaced by URLs to the
scrubbed attachments in the plain digest.

So yes, plain digests do not contain the attachments, but do contain
links to the attachments, but MIME digests contain the attachments in
the digest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Jan at Bytesmiths.com  Sat Aug  9 06:29:11 2008
From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 21:29:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] several questions.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Thanks for the explanation, Mark. I've never used anything but plain  
text digests, so I didn't know there was a way to get attachments that  
way.

On 8 Aug 08, at 20:18, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> All the attachments that were included in the individual messages sent
> to a list (i.e. not removed by content filtering) are in the MIME
> format digest.
>
> Attachments of types other than plain text are scrubbed from the plain
> format digest and stored in the archive and replaced by URLs to the
> scrubbed attachments in the plain digest.
>
> So yes, plain digests do not contain the attachments, but do contain
> links to the attachments, but MIME digests contain the attachments in
> the digest.




:::: The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the poplace  
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series  
of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. -- HL Mencken
:::: Jan Steinman 



From cri at linux.it  Sat Aug  9 11:11:29 2008
From: cri at linux.it (Cristian Rigamonti)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 11:11:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Manually bouncing messages to a mailman list
Message-ID: <20080809091129.GA3687@pegasus>

Hi list. Here's an interesting (at least for me :) mailman problem that I could
not manage to solve.

If I manually bounce messages to a mailman list (I mean: using the "bounce"
command in mutt, or the "mail redirect" thunderbird plugin), the messages seems
to disappear:

- they don't get delivered to the list (as I would expect when the original
  sender address is subscribed to the list)

- they don't go into the moderation queue (as I would expect when the original
  sender address is not subscribed to the list)

- they don't bounce back to the original sender (nor to the address who bounced the
  message to the list, nor to the list administrator)

Please note that I am a subscriber (and administrator) of the list in question,
but I don't have shell access to the server running mailman (version 2.1.9), so
I can't debug the problem myself.

Could it be that the "Resent-*" headers that get added to the bounced message
are somehow confusing mailman? Or is this a feature? Or a mis-configuration?

I couldn't find anything relevant in the list archives and the documentation,
except for this page, which mentions manually bouncing messages to a list:

  http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030683

I tried following the procedure described in that page (i.e. including an
"Approved: " header with the admin password) but the result is still the same.

Any ideas?

Cri

-- 
GPG/PGP Key-Id 0x943A5F0E      -    http://www.linux.it/~cri/cri.asc
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From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  9 16:50:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 07:50:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Manually bouncing messages to a mailman list
In-Reply-To: <20080809091129.GA3687@pegasus>
References: <20080809091129.GA3687@pegasus>
Message-ID: <489DAEBA.20500@msapiro.net>

Cristian Rigamonti wrote:
> 
> If I manually bounce messages to a mailman list (I mean: using the
> "bounce" command in mutt, or the "mail redirect" thunderbird plugin),
> the messages seems to disappear:

> Could it be that the "Resent-*" headers that get added to the bounced
> message are somehow confusing mailman? Or is this a feature? Or a
> mis-configuration?


It's not the added headers. It's the X-BeenThere: header in the original 
message. You have to remove it.

There is a "Discarded message" entry in Mailman's vette log, but since 
you don't have access, you can't see it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rick at niof.net  Sat Aug  9 18:24:42 2008
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 12:24:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
Message-ID: <20080809162441.GA2609@niof.net>

debian
Linux mnr.niof.net 2.6.24-1-686 #1 SMP Thu May 8 02:16:39 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
mailman 2.2.11-2
exim4 4.69-6

Before sending out my last mailing (it's an announce list) I set mailman
to do 'full personalization' so I could find out who was hitting the
spam button. The TOS notifications I got back had this at the top:

ALERT: Your feedback loop is not in ARF (Abuse Reporting Format).
Beginning September 2, 2008, all feedback loops will be converted to ARF.
To learn more about how this will impact you, please read more about how AOL
uses ARF at http://postmaster.aol.com/fbl/arfinfo.html.  Also read the
announcement of our plan to convert all feedback loops to ARF on our blog at
http://journals.aol.com/pmtjournal/blog/entries/2008/06/27/aol-converting-all-fbls-to-arf-on-9208/2977.
Please make any necessary preparations to accept ARF feedback loops before the
September 2, 2008 conversion.  To change your existing non-ARF loops to ARF,
fill out our online support form at http://postmaster.aol.com/waters/fbl_change_form.html.

What exactly is this telling me? Does mailman or exim need to be changed
or do I need to do something?

-- 
"First ask yourself: What is the worst that can happen? Then prepare to
 accept it. Then proceed to improve on the worst." -- Dale Carnegie
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net

From rbraver at ohww.norman.ok.us  Sat Aug  9 19:16:35 2008
From: rbraver at ohww.norman.ok.us (Robert Braver)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 12:16:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: <20080809162441.GA2609@niof.net>
References: <20080809162441.GA2609@niof.net>
Message-ID: <1035021872.20080809121635@ohww.norman.ok.us>

On Saturday, August 9, 2008, 11:24:42 AM, Rick Pasotto wrote:

RP> What exactly is this telling me? Does mailman or exim need to be changed
RP> or do I need to do something?

Follow the links for more information that are provided.  It's
pretty clear.

You don't really have to do anything.  The spam reports are moving
to the standardized ARF format, and we will no longer have the
choice to continue receiving AOL FBL reports in the format you (and
I) are receiving them in now.

While the ARF format allows for the inclusion of the entire message
that is the subject of the complaint, AOL will be redacting the
message.

This means you will have to track down the individual message by
the Message ID in order to identify the email address of the
specific recipient.

-- 
Best regards,
 Robert Braver
 rbraver at ohww.norman.ok.us


From subscribed-lists at sterndata.com  Sat Aug  9 20:40:19 2008
From: subscribed-lists at sterndata.com (Steven Stern)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 13:40:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: <1035021872.20080809121635@ohww.norman.ok.us>
References: <20080809162441.GA2609@niof.net>
	<1035021872.20080809121635@ohww.norman.ok.us>
Message-ID: <489DE493.5000303@sterndata.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 08/09/2008 12:16 PM, Robert Braver wrote:
| On Saturday, August 9, 2008, 11:24:42 AM, Rick Pasotto wrote:
|
| RP> What exactly is this telling me? Does mailman or exim need to be
changed
| RP> or do I need to do something?
|
| Follow the links for more information that are provided.  It's
| pretty clear.
|
| You don't really have to do anything.  The spam reports are moving
| to the standardized ARF format, and we will no longer have the
| choice to continue receiving AOL FBL reports in the format you (and
| I) are receiving them in now.
|
| While the ARF format allows for the inclusion of the entire message
| that is the subject of the complaint, AOL will be redacting the
| message.
|
| This means you will have to track down the individual message by
| the Message ID in order to identify the email address of the
| specific recipient.
|

If you add personalization in the footer, AOL will not redact it.

- --

~  Steve
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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From rbraver at ohww.norman.ok.us  Sat Aug  9 20:49:50 2008
From: rbraver at ohww.norman.ok.us (Robert Braver)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 13:49:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: <489DE493.5000303@sterndata.com>
References: <20080809162441.GA2609@niof.net>
	<1035021872.20080809121635@ohww.norman.ok.us>
	<489DE493.5000303@sterndata.com>
Message-ID: <1033590871.20080809134950@ohww.norman.ok.us>

On Saturday, August 9, 2008, 1:40:19 PM, Steven Stern wrote:

SS> On 08/09/2008 12:16 PM, Robert Braver wrote:
[...]

SS> | This means you will have to track down the individual message by
SS> | the Message ID in order to identify the email address of the
SS> | specific recipient.

SS> If you add personalization in the footer, AOL will not redact it.

Today, yes, but not after the changes being made by AOL that is the
subject of this thread.

  http://postmaster.info.aol.com/fbl/arfinfo.html

  What is the difference between the traditional AOL Feedback Loop
  format and ARF?

  The traditional format is a MIME multipart message with one empty
  text part and one message/rfc822 part with the original message
  being complained about. Parts of the header of the message being
  complained about are redacted out, where normally the AOL
  ScreenName recipient would be present.

  ARF is defined in a internet draft located at
  http://www.mipassoc.org/arf/ . ARF messages have three mime parts,
  one part for general information, one machine parsable and meta
  data part, and the last part as the original message being
  complained about. **** The original message is redacted to protect
  clear text occurrences of AOL screen names and email addresses.
  ****

An example ARF report (with redacted message) is provided on the
page referenced above.  

-- 
Best regards,
 Robert Braver
 rbraver at ohww.norman.ok.us


From rick at niof.net  Sat Aug  9 21:06:12 2008
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 15:06:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: <1033590871.20080809134950@ohww.norman.ok.us>
References: <20080809162441.GA2609@niof.net>
	<1035021872.20080809121635@ohww.norman.ok.us>
	<489DE493.5000303@sterndata.com>
	<1033590871.20080809134950@ohww.norman.ok.us>
Message-ID: <20080809190612.GB2609@niof.net>

On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 01:49:50PM -0500, Robert Braver wrote:
> On Saturday, August 9, 2008, 1:40:19 PM, Steven Stern wrote:
> 
> SS> On 08/09/2008 12:16 PM, Robert Braver wrote:
> [...]
> 
> SS> | This means you will have to track down the individual message by
> SS> | the Message ID in order to identify the email address of the
> SS> | specific recipient.
> 
> SS> If you add personalization in the footer, AOL will not redact it.
> 
> Today, yes, but not after the changes being made by AOL that is the
> subject of this thread.

The messages I got back from AOL included a header line like:

Return-Path: 

That 'username' tells me who the AOL member is. Are you saying that will
be redacted with the new response format?

-- 
"Those words, 'temperate' & 'moderate', are words either of political
 cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction...  A thing moderately good is
 not so good as it ought to be.  Moderation in temper is always a
 virtue, but moderation in principle is a species of vice."
		-- Thomas Paine "Letter to Addressors"
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  9 21:17:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 12:17:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: <20080809190612.GB2609@niof.net>
Message-ID: 

Rick Pasotto wrote:

>On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 01:49:50PM -0500, Robert Braver wrote:
>> On Saturday, August 9, 2008, 1:40:19 PM, Steven Stern wrote:
>> 
>> SS> On 08/09/2008 12:16 PM, Robert Braver wrote:
>> [...]
>> 
>> SS> | This means you will have to track down the individual message by
>> SS> | the Message ID in order to identify the email address of the
>> SS> | specific recipient.
>> 
>> SS> If you add personalization in the footer, AOL will not redact it.
>> 
>> Today, yes, but not after the changes being made by AOL that is the
>> subject of this thread.
>
>The messages I got back from AOL included a header line like:
>
>Return-Path: 
>
>That 'username' tells me who the AOL member is. Are you saying that will
>be redacted with the new response format?


You see that format in the Return-Path: header and maybe also in the
Sender: and Errors-To: headers because the envelope sender is VERP'd.
If your MTA is doing the VERP, its only in the Return-Path:. If
Mailman is doing the VERP because VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES is Yes
and/or VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1, then it's in the other headers too.

I was going to suggest you try VERP before I saw this post, however, I
don't know the answer to your question. I think you'll have to wait
and see.

Also, Message-ID was mentioned earlier in this thread. Unless you make
changes to Mailman, you can't identify the recipient from the
Message-ID because the post is sent to all recipients with the
Message-ID of the original incoming message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 10 01:04:09 2008
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 23:04:09 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] policy errors ..
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 


 
Hi,
 
 I have a dedicated server with debian operating system installed..
 
I used the following command line to install mailman:
 
apt-get install mailman
 
then used:
 bin/checkperms
 
 to check my installation and found 76 errors .. then I ran:
 
bin/checkperms -f
 
to fix and it fixed most of them but still there are 11 errors nomatter how much I repeat the command .. I also checked the FAQ about policies and stuff but it didn't give a satisfying answer, the errors are :
 
/var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root, expected list)/var/lib/mailman/cron bad group (has: root, expected list)/var/lib/mailman/locks bad group (has: root, expected list)/var/lib/mailman/scripts bad group (has: root, expected list)/var/lib/mailman/mail bad group (has: root, expected list)/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib bad group (has: root, expected list)/var/lib/mailman/templates bad group (has: root, expected list)/var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin bad group (has: root, expected list)/var/lib/mailman/Mailman bad group (has: root, expected list)/var/lib/mailman/bin bad group (has: root, expected list)/var/lib/mailman/icons bad group (has: root, expected list)
 
please help ..
 
Thanks..
 
_________________________________________________________________
Your PC, mobile phone, and online services work together like never before.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108587394/direct/01/

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug 10 01:42:06 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:42:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] policy errors ..
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Khalil Abbas wrote:
> 
> I have a dedicated server with debian operating system installed..
> 
>I used the following command line to install mailman:
> 
>apt-get install mailman
> 
>then used:
> bin/checkperms
> 
> to check my installation and found 76 errors .. then I ran:
> 
>bin/checkperms -f
> 
>to fix and it fixed most of them but still there are 11 errors nomatter how much I repeat the command .. I also checked the FAQ about policies and stuff but it didn't give a satisfying answer, the errors are :
> 
>/var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root, expected list)
>/var/lib/mailman/cron bad group (has: root, expected list)
>/var/lib/mailman/locks bad group (has: root, expected list)
>/var/lib/mailman/scripts bad group (has: root, expected list)
>/var/lib/mailman/mail bad group (has: root, expected list)
>/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib bad group (has: root, expected list)
>/var/lib/mailman/templates bad group (has: root, expected list)
>/var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin bad group (has: root, expected list)
>/var/lib/mailman/Mailman bad group (has: root, expected list)
>/var/lib/mailman/bin bad group (has: root, expected list)
>/var/lib/mailman/icons bad group (has: root, expected list)


I don't really know the details of the Debian package, but based on
your description, I'm thinking that the above are symlinks to the
actual directories and check_perms is seeing the group of the symlink
instead of the group of the target. Then when it attempts to change
the group, it is the target's group that changes, not that of the
symlink.

If that is the case, there's no problem because access will be
controlled by the permissions of the target, not those of the symlink.

I have to wonder however about a package that doesn't install with the
correct ownership and mode on all the installed files. Does Debian's
documentation tell you to run check_perms, or are you trying to fit
our installation manual to a package that it wasn't written for?

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dgoldsmith at sans.org  Mon Aug 11 02:34:08 2008
From: dgoldsmith at sans.org (David Goldsmith)
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 20:34:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with List Archive not Auto-Generating
Message-ID: <489F8900.3010203@sans.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

We had an issue with a failed disk on our Mailman server recently.  As a
result, some of our lists' config.pck and config.pck.last files were
corrupted.  I have restored files from older backups or dropped and
recreated the lists.

All of the Mailman admin web pages and user web pages appear to work at
this time.

The issue I have is that at least one list is not automatically updating
its archive when new posts come in.  I have verified by sending posts to
other lists that their archives are updated at that time.

If I run "arch --wipe  ", the list archive
is re-built successfully and includes the latest posts that have come
in.  New posts to this list are being appended to the .mbox file.

Here is the section of error messages that are showing up in the
"logs/error" file:

=====

Aug 10 22:56:54 2008 (23548) Uncaught runner exception: invalid load
key, '^_'.
Aug 10 22:56:54 2008 (23548) Traceback (most recent call last):
~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
~    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
~    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
~    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
~    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py", line 109, in process
~    Hold.hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, Hold.NonMemberPost)
~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 218, in
hold_for_approval
~    id = mlist.HoldMessage(msg, reason, msgdata)
~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 186, in HoldMessage
~    self.__opendb()
~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 86, in __opendb
~    self.__db = cPickle.load(fp)
UnpicklingError: invalid load key, '^_'.

Aug 10 22:56:54 2008 (23548) SHUNTING:
1218409013.986546+40eb47837328b00ded0f971e044058c916c0e0c3

=====

If I run "check_db --all", I get no error messages.  If I run "check_db
- --all --verbose", the only errors I get are about missing config.db and
config.db.last files, which I believe are not required.

Is there an easy way to add some debugging statements to the
Mailman/ListAdmin.py code to see what file (assuming it is one of the
.pck ones) is generating the error message?

Any suggestions as to how to determine what file might be corrupt and
hopefully how to fix it?

Thanks,
Dave
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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 11 04:10:46 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:10:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with List Archive not Auto-Generating
In-Reply-To: <489F8900.3010203@sans.org>
Message-ID: 

David Goldsmith wrote:
>
>The issue I have is that at least one list is not automatically updating
>its archive when new posts come in.  I have verified by sending posts to
>other lists that their archives are updated at that time.
>
>If I run "arch --wipe  ", the list archive
>is re-built successfully and includes the latest posts that have come
>in.  New posts to this list are being appended to the .mbox file.
>
>Here is the section of error messages that are showing up in the
>"logs/error" file:
>
>=====
>
>Aug 10 22:56:54 2008 (23548) Uncaught runner exception: invalid load
>key, '^_'.
>Aug 10 22:56:54 2008 (23548) Traceback (most recent call last):
>~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>~    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>~    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
>_dispose
>~    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
>_dopipeline
>~    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py", line 109, in process
>~    Hold.hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, Hold.NonMemberPost)
>~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 218, in
>hold_for_approval
>~    id = mlist.HoldMessage(msg, reason, msgdata)
>~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 186, in HoldMessage
>~    self.__opendb()
>~  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 86, in __opendb
>~    self.__db = cPickle.load(fp)
>UnpicklingError: invalid load key, '^_'.
>
>Aug 10 22:56:54 2008 (23548) SHUNTING:
>1218409013.986546+40eb47837328b00ded0f971e044058c916c0e0c3
>
>=====


I don't think this is the "not archiving" issue. This is a post that
was going to be held for the moderator because it was from a
non-member and got shunted instead. It wouldn't have gotten to the
listname.mbox file.


>If I run "check_db --all", I get no error messages.  If I run "check_db
>- --all --verbose", the only errors I get are about missing config.db and
>config.db.last files, which I believe are not required.


Correct. Also, check_db only checks config.* files which aren't the
problem here.


>Is there an easy way to add some debugging statements to the
>Mailman/ListAdmin.py code to see what file (assuming it is one of the
>.pck ones) is generating the error message?
>
>Any suggestions as to how to determine what file might be corrupt and
>hopefully how to fix it?


UTSL

The corrupt file is lists/listname/request.pck - the file that holds
the outstanding moderator requests. You should also be seeing some
error if you go to the admindb interface for this list. If you just
remove the request.pck, that will fix this problem, but I doubt it
will fix the non-archiving problem. That sounds like a corrupt archive
database, but bin/arch --wipe should fix that.

BTW, the list that has the corrupt request.pck probably isn't the one
that's not archiving. Do

bin/show_qfiles
qfiles/shunt/1218409013.986546+40eb47837328b00ded0f971e044058c916c0e0c3.pck

to see the shunted post which should indicate (in To:) what list it's
for. If it's To: more than one list, use bin/dumpdb instead to see the
listname in the metadata.

There may be several of these shunted posts. After you remove the bad
request.pck, you can run bin/unshunt to reprocess them. Before running
unshunt it is always a good idea to look at all the files in
qfiles/shunt to make sure they are all current and relevant and remove
the ones that aren't.

Anyway, after you take care of all this, if you still have the archive
issue, check the error log for errors relating to that (from
ArchRunner) and post a traceback if you can't figure it out (it may be
a permissions issue).

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jaionea at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 11 19:43:00 2008
From: jaionea at yahoo.com (Jaione Arrieta)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:43:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] about reply
Message-ID: <957676.56562.qm@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have a question, I?m the administrator of the list (so I can make the changes) but I?m also a register user and when I received a message from the list as an user (as everybody does) and I answer the mail to the list, the?answer arrives to the list (I can see it in the archives) but I don?t receive it myself, and I want to receive it, so how can I change that?
?
Thank you

__________________________________________________
Correo Yahoo!
Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ?gratis! 
Reg?strate ya - http://correo.yahoo.com.mx/ 

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 11 20:03:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:03:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] about reply
In-Reply-To: <957676.56562.qm@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

Jaione Arrieta wrote:

>I have a question, I?m the administrator of the list (so I can make the changes) but I?m also a register user and when I received a message from the list as an user (as everybody does) and I answer the mail to the list, the?answer arrives to the list (I can see it in the archives) but I don?t receive it myself, and I want to receive it, so how can I change that?


If your user settings are to not receive your own posts, i.e. "Receive
your own posts to the list?" set to No on your user options page or
"not metoo" checked in the anmin Membership List, then change it.

If you use gmail, see .

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jaionea at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 11 20:09:20 2008
From: jaionea at yahoo.com (Jaione Arrieta)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:09:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  about receiving
Message-ID: <18930531.post@talk.nabble.com>


I have a question, I?m the administrator of the list (so I can make the
changes) but I?m also a register user and when I received any message from
the list as an user (as everybody does) and I answer the mail to the list,
the response arrives to the list (I can see it in the archives) but I don?t
receive it myself as an user, and I want to receive it, so how can I change
that? 
I have my individual account set as to receive the mails I sent, but for
some reason I need to find out, I don?t receive the answers I reply to the
list
Please some one help me out...

Thank you
Jaione

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/about-receiving-tp18930531p18930531.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

From dgoldsmith at sans.org  Mon Aug 11 20:19:18 2008
From: dgoldsmith at sans.org (David Goldsmith)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:19:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with List Archive not Auto-Generating
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <48A082A6.4090403@sans.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:

| The corrupt file is lists/listname/request.pck - the file that holds
| the outstanding moderator requests. You should also be seeing some
| error if you go to the admindb interface for this list. If you just
| remove the request.pck, that will fix this problem, but I doubt it
| will fix the non-archiving problem. That sounds like a corrupt archive
| database, but bin/arch --wipe should fix that.

The request.pck file has been removed.

| BTW, the list that has the corrupt request.pck probably isn't the one
| that's not archiving. Do
|
| bin/show_qfiles
|
qfiles/shunt/1218409013.986546+40eb47837328b00ded0f971e044058c916c0e0c3.pck
|
| to see the shunted post which should indicate (in To:) what list it's
| for. If it's To: more than one list, use bin/dumpdb instead to see the
| listname in the metadata.
|
| There may be several of these shunted posts. After you remove the bad
| request.pck, you can run bin/unshunt to reprocess them. Before running
| unshunt it is always a good idea to look at all the files in
| qfiles/shunt to make sure they are all current and relevant and remove
| the ones that aren't.

Yikes.  Didn't realize that Mailman was maintaining a queue like that.
Nuked all of the really old messages, cleaned out the spam, ran
"unshunt" and got various errors due to permissions.  Ran "check_perms
- -v" and "check_perms -f" to correct that.  Re-ran "unshunt" and most of
the messages were picked up and delivered to the lists.

| Anyway, after you take care of all this, if you still have the archive
| issue, check the error log for errors relating to that (from
| ArchRunner) and post a traceback if you can't figure it out (it may be
| a permissions issue).

The list with problems has an updated archive now.  I'll wait and see
what happens when the next message comes in.  Looking at the
"logs/error" file, I did get some errors when I unshunted the files.
Turns out that one of the other lists had a corrupt pipermail.pck file.
~ After nuking and rebuilding that lists archives, I think things are
running as they should be right now.

Thanks for the info,
Dave






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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 11 20:23:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:23:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] about receiving
In-Reply-To: <18930531.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

Jaione Arrieta wrote:

>I have my individual account set as to receive the mails I sent, but for
>some reason I need to find out, I don?t receive the answers I reply to the
>list


Is your subscribed address a gmail/googlemail address? If so, see
.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 11 20:30:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:30:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] about reply
In-Reply-To: <202907.7847.qm@web32806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

Jaione Arrieta wrote:

>Yes, I have it set to receive my own post and I don?t have problem if I send a "new"post as a user, the problem is when I reply to someone else post I don?t receive the reply I sent.
>is weird isn?t it?


This could be caused by filtering rules in your MUA (mail client).
There's nothing in Mailman that would send or not send you a copy of
your post based on whether it was an original post or a reply.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jaionea at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 11 20:58:05 2008
From: jaionea at yahoo.com (Jaione Arrieta)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:58:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] about reply
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <18931518.post@talk.nabble.com>


Thank you Mark

No it isn?t a gmail account.... so how can I check that in my MUA??



Mark Sapiro-3 wrote:
> 
> Jaione Arrieta wrote:
> 
>>Yes, I have it set to receive my own post and I don?t have problem if I
send a "new"post as a user, the problem is when I reply to someone else post
I don?t receive the reply I sent.
>>is weird isn?t it?
> 
> 
> This could be caused by filtering rules in your MUA (mail client).
> There's nothing in Mailman that would send or not send you a copy of
> your post based on whether it was an original post or a reply.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40nabble.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-about-reply-tp18931117p18931518.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 11 21:28:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:28:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] about reply
In-Reply-To: <18931518.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

Jaione Arrieta wrote:
>
>No it isn?t a gmail account.... so how can I check that in my MUA??


Is this your Yahoo address? If so, go to the Yahoo Mail interface and
check the "filters" settings under mail options. Also check your spam
folder.

If you download mail from Yahoo and read it locally, also check the
setting in whatever program you use to read the mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Tue Aug 12 09:37:16 2008
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:37:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: <1035021872.20080809121635@ohww.norman.ok.us>
References: <20080809162441.GA2609@niof.net>
	<1035021872.20080809121635@ohww.norman.ok.us>
Message-ID: <3C65771E2E8CCAE4089BC8E2@[10.0.0.14]>

--On Saturday, August 09, 2008 12:16 PM -0500 Robert Braver 
 wrote:

> While the ARF format allows for the inclusion of the entire message
> that is the subject of the complaint, AOL will be redacting the
> message.

Perhaps the customized part of the message could include the recipient in 
ROT13 or some other easily-reversible obfuscation to elude the redact? This 
would obviously require some code support in Mailman to do the obfuscation.



From dannyshain at gmail.com  Wed Aug 13 03:50:08 2008
From: dannyshain at gmail.com (Danny Shain)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:50:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about mailing lists
Message-ID: <810d9ee60808121850s13ebe2c6w14d8cccf82f9452b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

I want to start off by saying I think it's great that this community exists,
with people willing to help people.  I have a question that is dealt with on
the FAQ, but before you roll your eyes I'm still posting here because the I
didn't find the FAQ entry helpful.  Maybe you're still rolling your eyes,
but hear me out.

FAQ Entry 1.7. I've set up Mailman, created a list, and added myself to the
list, but I don't get any messages!

That's my problem.  Maybe it's because I'm using mailman through a third
party (Lunarpages webhosting), but I don't see anything about cronjobs or
aliases, etc.  But I send emails to the mailing list, the emails show up in
the mailing list archives, and yet nobody on the list receives messages.  If
anybody has an idea of what I can try next I would greatly appreciate it!
Otherwise I'll probably end up using yahoo or something.

Thanks,

~Danny

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug 13 04:28:55 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:28:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: <3C65771E2E8CCAE4089BC8E2@[10.0.0.14]>
References: <20080809162441.GA2609@niof.net>
	<1035021872.20080809121635@ohww.norman.ok.us>
	<3C65771E2E8CCAE4089BC8E2@[10.0.0.14]>
Message-ID: 

On 8/12/08, Kenneth Porter wrote:

>  Perhaps the customized part of the message could include the recipient
>  in ROT13 or some other easily-reversible obfuscation to elude the redact?
>  This would obviously require some code support in Mailman to do the
>  obfuscation.

If you're not AOL management, then there's no point in speculating 
what is technically possible for AOL to implement in their Scomp 
reports.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 13 05:11:12 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:11:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 8/12/08, Kenneth Porter wrote:
>
>>  Perhaps the customized part of the message could include the recipient
>>  in ROT13 or some other easily-reversible obfuscation to elude the redact?
>>  This would obviously require some code support in Mailman to do the
>>  obfuscation.
>
>If you're not AOL management, then there's no point in speculating 
>what is technically possible for AOL to implement in their Scomp 
>reports.


I think he was suggesting that Mailman could somehow put something like
a rot13 encoded version of the recipient's address into a personalized
list footer to sneak it past AOL's eliding of "screen names".

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 13 05:21:38 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:21:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <810d9ee60808121850s13ebe2c6w14d8cccf82f9452b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Danny Shain wrote:
>
>FAQ Entry 1.7. I've set up Mailman, created a list, and added myself to the
>list, but I don't get any messages!
>
>That's my problem.  Maybe it's because I'm using mailman through a third
>party (Lunarpages webhosting), but I don't see anything about cronjobs or
>aliases, etc.  But I send emails to the mailing list, the emails show up in
>the mailing list archives, and yet nobody on the list receives messages.


Since you refer to cronjobs and aliases, I assume you have seen FAQ
4.78 . The problem is most of the things
that FAQ refers to are not available to you in a hosted environment.

Since the messages are getting archived, a lot is working.

Do the members have delivery enabled and not digest mode? I.e. are the
"nomail" and "digest" columns unchecked in the Membership List?

Is mail bouncing? I.e. make sure bounce_processing and the
Notifications are set to Yes on the Bounce processing page. Then click
on member addresses in the Membership List and make sure there's no
indication of bouncing near the top of the membership page.

If all the above seems OK, you'll have to get help from the hosting
service.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 13 05:32:59 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:32:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about mailing lists
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Danny Shain wrote:
>>
>>FAQ Entry 1.7. I've set up Mailman, created a list, and added myself to the
>>list, but I don't get any messages!
>>
>>That's my problem.  Maybe it's because I'm using mailman through a third
>>party (Lunarpages webhosting), but I don't see anything about cronjobs or
>>aliases, etc.  But I send emails to the mailing list, the emails show up in
>>the mailing list archives, and yet nobody on the list receives messages.
>
>
>Since you refer to cronjobs and aliases, I assume you have seen FAQ
>4.78 . The problem is most of the things
>that FAQ refers to are not available to you in a hosted environment.


Then again, maybe you haven't as that stuff is also referenced in FAQ
1.7.


>Since the messages are getting archived, a lot is working.
>
>Do the members have delivery enabled and not digest mode? I.e. are the
>"nomail" and "digest" columns unchecked in the Membership List?
>
>Is mail bouncing? I.e. make sure bounce_processing and the
>Notifications are set to Yes on the Bounce processing page. Then click
>on member addresses in the Membership List and make sure there's no
>indication of bouncing near the top of the membership page.
>
>If all the above seems OK, you'll have to get help from the hosting
>service.


Do you get any messages from Mailman? I.e., do new subscribers get the
list welcome message? Did the list owner get the list created message?

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug 13 08:07:55 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 01:07:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 8/12/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  I think he was suggesting that Mailman could somehow put something like
>  a rot13 encoded version of the recipient's address into a personalized
>  list footer to sneak it past AOL's eliding of "screen names".

In the ARF reports, I don't think you're going to see copies of the 
footers.  Not even copies of the message.  Just the headers, of which 
all the useful information will be deleted by AOL.

Moreover, even if you did get copies of the footers (as you have in 
the past, with the non-ARF reports), the people at AOL are smart 
enough to see that there is non-anonymized information in the footers 
and to fix that with the next update of the software.


So, either way, we're screwed.  AOL is determined to delete any and 
all data that would actually be useful to us in our jobs, and they 
are determined to file all these reports automatically.

So do what I do -- file them automatically, in a folder that you 
never go look in.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Aug 13 13:10:07 2008
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 06:10:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On 8/13/08 1:07 AM, Brad Knowles at brad at shub-internet.org wrote:

> So, either way, we're screwed.  AOL is determined to delete any and
> all data that would actually be useful to us in our jobs, and they
> are determined to file all these reports automatically.
> 
> So do what I do -- file them automatically, in a folder that you
> never go look in.

Why even receive them at that point? They're little more than spam
themselves so maybe it's time to ban all mail from AOL as AOL will then be a
known spammer. :-(

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From z.szalbot at lcwords.com  Wed Aug 13 13:36:29 2008
From: z.szalbot at lcwords.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:36:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <48A2C73D.1000306@lcwords.com>

Hi there,

Larry Stone:
> Why even receive them at that point? They're little more than spam 
> themselves so maybe it's time to ban all mail from AOL as AOL will
> then be a known spammer. :-(

Because you can always claim you treat their reports seriously. ;)
Actually, when lists are personalized you can always use Message-ID to
look up your nice AOL citizen. That't what I do as I use full 
personalization option.

Yours,

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot
www.LCWords.com

From z.szalbot at lcwords.com  Wed Aug 13 13:58:29 2008
From: z.szalbot at lcwords.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:58:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Mailman layout
Message-ID: <48A2CC65.10703@lcwords.com>

Dear all,

Where do I look to change Mailman layout (I know where to change 
individual lists) but not sure where are files for 
domian.tld/mailman/listinfo located.

I'd like to customize Mailman to look more like our organization's website.

Many thanks in advance!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot
www.LCWords.com

From cri at linux.it  Wed Aug 13 14:39:47 2008
From: cri at linux.it (Cristian Rigamonti)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:39:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Manually bouncing messages to a mailman list
In-Reply-To: <489DAEBA.20500@msapiro.net>
References: <20080809091129.GA3687@pegasus> <489DAEBA.20500@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20080813123947.GA4281@pegasus>

On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 07:50:34AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> It's not the added headers. It's the X-BeenThere: header in the original  
> message. You have to remove it.

Uhm, I've checked both the original message and the bounced message (going
out of my mutt), and neither contains the "X-BeenThere: " header. The only
difference is the Resent-* headers (mutt also strips the "Delivered-To: " header
from bounced messages).

Let me clarify the scenario:
- Somebody sends me a message
- I think the message should really go to the list, not to me
- I bounce the message to the list (if the original sender is not subscribed to
  the list I expect to find it in the moderation queue)
- The message disappears

> There is a "Discarded message" entry in Mailman's vette log, but since  
> you don't have access, you can't see it.

Thanks, I'll ask the sysadmin to have a look at that.

Cri

-- 
GPG/PGP Key-Id 0x943A5F0E      -    http://www.linux.it/~cri/cri.asc
-------------- next part --------------
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From Michael.J.Masquith at uscg.mil  Wed Aug 13 16:06:54 2008
From: Michael.J.Masquith at uscg.mil (Masquith, Michael CTR)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:06:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email address obfuscation
Message-ID: <37F4B77CD2D5E74CABE72E239A5EB45D01E66C56@emo-exmb-m-203.main.ads.uscg.mil>

Hello,
Is there in place any method to obfuscate/hide email addresses so spammer spiders/robots can't harvest them?

If not, could I edit a page to use an external JavaScript function to do so? Even more basically, can JavaScript be used at all when editing pages?

Thanks.

Michael Masquith
USGC, Inc.?
Contractor Support to:
The United States Coast Guard
National Maritime Center
100 Forbes Drive
Martinsburg, WV 25404
(P) (304)433-3456
1-888-427-5662
Michael.J.Masquith at uscg.mil 



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 13 16:49:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:49:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Mailman layout
In-Reply-To: <48A2CC65.10703@lcwords.com>
Message-ID: 

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>Where do I look to change Mailman layout (I know where to change 
>individual lists) but not sure where are files for 
>domian.tld/mailman/listinfo located.


The listinfo overview page is built on the fly by
Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py. The admin(db) pages are built the same way by
Mailman/Cgi/admin(db).py.

The "best" way to add css or similar things to these pages is to modify
the Format() method of the Document() class in Mailman/htmlformat.py.

If you really want to add, subtract or rearrange things on these pages,
you have to modify the Mailman/Cgi/* modules that generate them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Aug 13 16:55:06 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:55:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <810d9ee60808121850s13ebe2c6w14d8cccf82f9452b@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <810d9ee60808121850s13ebe2c6w14d8cccf82f9452b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200808131451.m7DEpeOI006410@newbox.eroded.org>

Danny Shain wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>I want to start off by saying I think it's great that this community exists,
>with people willing to help people.  I have a question that is dealt with on
>the FAQ, but before you roll your eyes I'm still posting here because the I
>didn't find the FAQ entry helpful.  Maybe you're still rolling your eyes,
>but hear me out.
>
>FAQ Entry 1.7. I've set up Mailman, created a list, and added myself to the
>list, but I don't get any messages!
>
>That's my problem.  Maybe it's because I'm using mailman through a third
>party (Lunarpages webhosting), but I don't see anything about cronjobs or
>aliases, etc.  But I send emails to the mailing list, the emails show up in
>the mailing list archives, and yet nobody on the list receives messages.  If
>anybody has an idea of what I can try next I would greatly appreciate it!
>Otherwise I'll probably end up using yahoo or something.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

You are using a gmail address to post here.

Did you subscribe this gmail address to the list?

If so, that is the problem as gmail will not send list posts back to 
you that are already present in your outgoing mailbox.

This is a known problem and Google appears to not give a damn about fixing it.


Please see:

http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/I+use+Gmail-Googlemail%2C+but+I+can%27t+tell+if+any+of+my+messages+have+been+posted+to+the+list 


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 13 16:56:43 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:56:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: <48A2C73D.1000306@lcwords.com>
Message-ID: 

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

>Actually, when lists are personalized you can always use Message-ID to
>look up your nice AOL citizen. That't what I do as I use full 
>personalization option.


I'm confused. How do you use the Message-ID for this? Even when
messages are fully personalized, every recipient's message has the
Message-ID of the original, incoming message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 13 17:12:20 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 08:12:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email address obfuscation
In-Reply-To: <37F4B77CD2D5E74CABE72E239A5EB45D01E66C56@emo-exmb-m-203.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: 

Masquith, Michael CTR wrote:

>Is there in place any method to obfuscate/hide email addresses so spammer spiders/robots can't harvest them?


Are you talking about archives? If so, mild obfuscation is done by
default unless you put

ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS = No

in mm_cfg.py.

If you're talking about things like the list roster, this is controlled
by the list's Privacy options... -> Subscription rules ->
obscure_addresses setting.




>If not, could I edit a page to use an external JavaScript function to do so? Even more basically, can JavaScript be used at all when editing pages?


If you're asking if you can put JavaScript in Mailman's HTML templates,
you can.

But, if you want to use JavaScript to improve on the obfuscation
already done, you'd need to modify the code that does the obfuscation
(which isn't all in one place).

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From chris at westnet.com  Wed Aug 13 17:07:15 2008
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:07:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I'm confused. How do you use the Message-ID for this? Even when
> messages are fully personalized, every recipient's message has the
> Message-ID of the original, incoming message.

It may depend on how your MTA is set up. On my lists, there is an internal 
Received: line where the mailman machine hands off the message to itself. 
That message ID allows me to lookup the recipient despite AOL's obfuscation.

Here's an example from a test list, luckly someone just tested it:
(Mycroft is the border mail machine, Friday is the web/mailman server)
If I had a complaint I would look up message ID m7DF2jJX008532 on 
host Friday. 

Received: from friday.westnet.com (Friday.westnet.com [216.187.52.6])
    by westnet.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id m7DF301M001618
    for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:03:01 -0400 (EDT)

Received: from friday.westnet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
    by friday.westnet.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7DF2jJX008532
    for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:02:45 -0400 (EDT)

Received: from Mycroft.westnet.com (Mycroft.westnet.com [216.187.52.7])
    by friday.westnet.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7DF1ddZ008518
    for ;
    Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:01:44 -0400 (EDT)


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 948-3162
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Aug 13 17:20:15 2008
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:20:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008, Christopher X. Candreva wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Aug 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> > I'm confused. How do you use the Message-ID for this? Even when
> > messages are fully personalized, every recipient's message has the
> > Message-ID of the original, incoming message.
>
> It may depend on how your MTA is set up. On my lists, there is an internal
> Received: line where the mailman machine hands off the message to itself.
> That message ID allows me to lookup the recipient despite AOL's obfuscation.
>
> Here's an example from a test list, luckly someone just tested it:
> (Mycroft is the border mail machine, Friday is the web/mailman server)
> If I had a complaint I would look up message ID m7DF2jJX008532 on
> host Friday.
>
> Received: from friday.westnet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
>     by friday.westnet.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7DF2jJX008532
>     for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:02:45 -0400 (EDT)

That's not a "Message ID", that's a queue ID. And yes, I do the same
thing.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From chris at westnet.com  Wed Aug 13 17:25:02 2008
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:25:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008, Larry Stone wrote:

> That's not a "Message ID", that's a queue ID. And yes, I do the same
> thing.

Ah yes, of course you are right.

As you said though -- either way, it works. :-)


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 948-3162
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 13 17:33:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 08:33:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Manually bouncing messages to a mailman list
In-Reply-To: <20080813123947.GA4281@pegasus>
Message-ID: 

Cristian Rigamonti wrote:
>
>On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 07:50:34AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> It's not the added headers. It's the X-BeenThere: header in the original
>> message. You have to remove it.
>
>Uhm, I've checked both the original message and the bounced message (going
>out of my mutt), and neither contains the "X-BeenThere: " header. The only
>difference is the Resent-* headers (mutt also strips the "Delivered-To: " header
>from bounced messages).


Sorry, I misunderstood.


>Let me clarify the scenario:
>- Somebody sends me a message
>- I think the message should really go to the list, not to me
>- I bounce the message to the list (if the original sender is not subscribed to
>  the list I expect to find it in the moderation queue)


Maybe not. If you are a member and the envelope of the bounced message
is from you, it will be considered a post from you.


>- The message disappears
>
>> There is a "Discarded message" entry in Mailman's vette log, but since
>> you don't have access, you can't see it.
>
>Thanks, I'll ask the sysadmin to have a look at that.


The message won't be too helpful in this situation. It just says
'Message discarded, msgid: ...', but if it is present, it will verify
that the message reached Mailman and Mailman discarded it for some
reason.

I don't yet understand why Mailman would discard the message, but I am
able to duplicate the problem, so I will investigate further tomorrow.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at midrange.com  Wed Aug 13 18:13:50 2008
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:13:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <48A3083E.3020802@midrange.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> So, either way, we're screwed.  AOL is determined to delete any and all 
> data that would actually be useful to us in our jobs, and they are 
> determined to file all these reports automatically.

And I'm *SURE* they will _never_ consider moving the "Report to TOS" button away from the "Delete Message" button ... or asking if the user is sure they want to report a message to TOS.



-- 
IBM i on Power - For when you can't afford to be out of business

From Michael.J.Masquith at uscg.mil  Wed Aug 13 18:40:11 2008
From: Michael.J.Masquith at uscg.mil (Masquith, Michael CTR)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:40:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email address obfuscation
In-Reply-To: 
References: <37F4B77CD2D5E74CABE72E239A5EB45D01E66C56@emo-exmb-m-203.main.ads.uscg.mil>
	
Message-ID: <37F4B77CD2D5E74CABE72E239A5EB45D01E66EE4@emo-exmb-m-203.main.ads.uscg.mil>

Mark, Thanks!

>Are you talking about archives?
No.

>If you're asking if you can put JavaScript in Mailman's HTML templates,
you can.
That was it. Thanks.


Michael Masquith

-----Original Message-----
From: mark at msapiro.net [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:12 AM
To: Masquith, Michael CTR; 	
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] email address obfuscation

Masquith, Michael CTR wrote:

>Is there in place any method to obfuscate/hide email addresses so spammer spiders/robots can't harvest them?


Are you talking about archives? If so, mild obfuscation is done by
default unless you put

ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS = No

in mm_cfg.py.

If you're talking about things like the list roster, this is controlled
by the list's Privacy options... -> Subscription rules ->
obscure_addresses setting.




>If not, could I edit a page to use an external JavaScript function to do so? Even more basically, can JavaScript be used at all when editing pages?


If you're asking if you can put JavaScript in Mailman's HTML templates,
you can.

But, if you want to use JavaScript to improve on the obfuscation
already done, you'd need to modify the code that does the obfuscation
(which isn't all in one place).

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dannyshain at gmail.com  Wed Aug 13 19:28:15 2008
From: dannyshain at gmail.com (Danny Shain)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:28:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about mailing lists
In-Reply-To: 
References: <810d9ee60808122126x3d7f271dweb246377855e8a14@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <810d9ee60808131028k371af77el126c03b0f97fa697@mail.gmail.com>

Dragon, Mark,

Thanks for the quick replies.  Dragon, I'd been having a brief conversation
with Mark away from the listserv and we actually got to just about the same
point.  I have a webmail account provided by my hosting which is technically
the recipient of all mailman emails, which I then have forwarding to a gmail
account.  I didn't understand why it was forwarding welcome/approval/error
messages but not my actual posts, which I eventually verified were in fact
being sent to my webmail account.  POP3 refused to fetch them too.  Your
responses seem to answer this perfectly though, and I now understand that
gmail is intentionally hiding them from me.  (Even though the gmail account
is not registered with mailman, I'm sending my posts out from gmail under
the identity of my webmail account, and I guess google is "smart" enough to
know that when it sees the forwarded message coming back.)  Aside from the
data collecting I've generally been a fan of every gmail feature, but I
guess I was bound to find one that seems stupid eventually.  I can't believe
there's not even an option somewhere to disable this "feature" if you so
choose.

I turned on "receive acknowledgment of own posts" and I get those, and I do
see a copy in my sent mail.  So I guess everything was working perfectly all
along and I just didn't know it.  Plus it was in the FAQ.  Hope saying
thanks again makes up for that :).

Thanks for helping me out and saving me a lot of wasted time and effort, I
really appreciate it,

~Danny


On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:55 AM, Dragon  wrote:
You are using a gmail address to post here.

Did you subscribe this gmail address to the list?

If so, that is the problem as gmail will not send list posts back to you
that are already present in your outgoing mailbox.

This is a known problem and Google appears to not give a damn about fixing
it.


Please see:

http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/I+use+Gmail-Googlemail%2C+but+I+can%27t+tell+if+any+of+my+messages+have+been+posted+to+the+list

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 6:53 AM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> >I have a webmail account (provided by the hosting) which I have told to
> >forward all mail to gmail.  I'd been receiving forwarded
> >welcome/approval/error messages on my gmail during testing, but I decided
> to
> >double check the webmail to see if it was at least getting there.  It
> was...
> >all my test emails were in my webmail inbox, inexplicably not forwarding
> >like the other messages.  Nor are they being retrieved by POP3.
>
>
> It doesn't sound like this is applicable in this case, but see
> .
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From cri at linux.it  Wed Aug 13 21:51:42 2008
From: cri at linux.it (Cristian Rigamonti)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:51:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Manually bouncing messages to a mailman list
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20080813123947.GA4281@pegasus>
	
Message-ID: <20080813195142.GB3626@pegasus>

On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 08:33:14AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> 
> >Let me clarify the scenario:
> >- Somebody sends me a message
> >- I think the message should really go to the list, not to me
> >- I bounce the message to the list (if the original sender is not subscribed to
> >  the list I expect to find it in the moderation queue)
> 
> 
> Maybe not. If you are a member and the envelope of the bounced message
> is from you, it will be considered a post from you.

I thought about that, so I tested both possibilities for the envelope sender of
the bounced message: envelope from me (yes, I am a member of the list) or
envelope from the sender of the original message (I tested both cases: member or
not-member of the list); in all tests the message disappears.

> >> There is a "Discarded message" entry in Mailman's vette log, but since
> >> you don't have access, you can't see it.
> >
> >Thanks, I'll ask the sysadmin to have a look at that.
> 
> 
> The message won't be too helpful in this situation. It just says
> 'Message discarded, msgid: ...', but if it is present, it will verify
> that the message reached Mailman and Mailman discarded it for some
> reason.

I got feedback from the sysadm: indeed the message is discarded by mailman:

  Aug 12 13:43:44 2008 (6025) Message discarded, msgid: <20080720101847.GA4783 at pegasus>

> I don't yet understand why Mailman would discard the message, but I am
> able to duplicate the problem, so I will investigate further tomorrow.

Thank you very much! Let me know if I can help you somehow (reminder: I'm using
mailman version 2.1.9)

Cri

-- 
GPG/PGP Key-Id 0x943A5F0E      -    http://www.linux.it/~cri/cri.asc
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From Max.Lanfranconi at Sun.COM  Wed Aug 13 23:45:36 2008
From: Max.Lanfranconi at Sun.COM (Max Lanfranconi)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:45:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newsrunner infinite loop
Message-ID: <48A35600.50402@sun.com>

Hi,

I have a mailman 2.1.11 installation running about 1000 mailing lists.
Each of them is bi-directionally gatewayed via NNTP.

I have been hitting the following scenario:

Email 'a' is made of a text body and email 'b' as a text attachment.

Email 'b' is made of a text body and another non-text attachment.

Posting email 'a' to any mailing list gets email a distributed to all 
the mailing list members but puts  NewsRunner in the following infinite 
loop (1 traceback per second. Needless to say, the posting never makes 
it to the newsgroup)

Aug 13 14:36:30 2008 (25129) Uncaught runner exception:
Aug 13 14:36:30 2008 (25129) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/NewsRunner.py", line 86, in 
_dispose
    conn.quit()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/nntplib.py", line 600, in quit
    resp = self.shortcmd('QUIT')
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/nntplib.py", line 260, in shortcmd
    return self.getresp()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/nntplib.py", line 215, in getresp
    resp = self.getline()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/nntplib.py", line 207, in getline
    if not line: raise EOFError
EOFError


Any hint about what may cause this ?

Thanks!

Max



From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Aug 14 00:05:28 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:05:28 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
References: <48A2C73D.1000306@lcwords.com>
	
Message-ID: <87myjgbmfr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
 > 
 > >Actually, when lists are personalized you can always use Message-ID to
 > >look up your nice AOL citizen. That't what I do as I use full 
 > >personalization option.
 > 
 > 
 > I'm confused. How do you use the Message-ID for this? Even when
 > messages are fully personalized, every recipient's message has the
 > Message-ID of the original, incoming message.

Well, we could provide a Resent-Message-ID.  If it's not present in
the AOL bounce and they won't provide it, we just say "We log every
outgoing message so we can fix these problems.  Provide the
corresponding Resent-Message-ID or it's not our problem, you're simply
arbitrarily throwing away your customers' mail."

But what it really comes down to is that they are arbitrarily throwing
away their customers' mail, and their customers apparently like it
that way.

From ed at justbrits.com  Thu Aug 14 03:29:40 2008
From: ed at justbrits.com (Ed at JustBrits)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:29:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: <87myjgbmfr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: 

<>

I would be MORE prone to believe that "their customers" have absolutely 
NO CLUE, Stephan and being aolers don't 'care' enough to complain
(even IF they know how to) -:)-:)!!

Ed



From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug 14 03:39:00 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:39:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 8/13/08, Larry Stone wrote:

>  Why even receive them at that point? They're little more than spam
>  themselves so maybe it's time to ban all mail from AOL as AOL will then be a
>  known spammer. :-(

If you set yourself up to receive them, it's a lot harder for AOL to 
automatically mark you as a spammer.  Unless you actually are a 
spammer, you're not going to get enough Scomp reports to show up on 
their radar, and you can pretty much safely ignore them.

At least, that's what we've been told by the AOL representative we 
have been working with.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug 14 03:46:00 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:46:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 8/13/08, Ed at JustBrits wrote:

>  I would be MORE prone to believe that "their customers" have absolutely
>  NO CLUE, Stephan and being aolers don't 'care' enough to complain
>  (even IF they know how to) -:)-:)!!

All their customers know is that they are doing everything they can 
to make the spam pain go away.  So, they hit "Report as spam" for 
every single message, and boy does that make them feel good.

Of course if they thought you were ever throwing away any of their 
e-mail (spam or not), they'd be really hopping mad.  So, you make 
sure they never find out.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From ed at justbrits.com  Thu Aug 14 05:26:25 2008
From: ed at justbrits.com (Ed at JustBrits)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:26:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

<>

LMAO, Brad !!!!!

Tnx, NEEDED that !

Ed



From david at midrange.com  Thu Aug 14 05:13:14 2008
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:13:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <48A3A2CA.4040900@midrange.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> If you set yourself up to receive them, it's a lot harder for AOL to 
> automatically mark you as a spammer.  

Actually, in my experience, AOL doesn't give a rats a-- that you are setup for the feedback loop (at least the old program) ... if they thought you might be a spammer they will still rate limit your delivery even if they send feedback to you.

david

-- 
IBM i on Power -- For when you can't afford to be out of business.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug 14 06:37:29 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:37:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: <48A3A2CA.4040900@midrange.com>
References: 
	 <48A3A2CA.4040900@midrange.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/13/08, David Gibbs wrote:

>  Actually, in my experience, AOL doesn't give a rats a-- that you are setup
>  for the feedback loop (at least the old program) ... if they thought you
>  might be a spammer they will still rate limit your delivery even if they
>  send feedback to you.

Yeah, but rate-limiting is nothing like having all your e-mail 
silently dropped on the floor.  At least you're getting something 
through, and you usually know something about that fact.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Thu Aug 14 07:40:34 2008
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:40:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: <48A3083E.3020802@midrange.com>
References: 
	
	<48A3083E.3020802@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <20080814054034.GC28291@charite.de>

* David Gibbs :
> Brad Knowles wrote:
>> So, either way, we're screwed.  AOL is determined to delete any and all  
>> data that would actually be useful to us in our jobs, and they are  
>> determined to file all these reports automatically.
>
> And I'm *SURE* they will _never_ consider moving the "Report to TOS" button away from the "Delete Message" button ... or asking if the user is sure they want to report a message to TOS.

Care to share a picture of how it looks? No retard aoluser was able to
send me a screenshot. Yet.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to snickebo at charite.de

From z.szalbot at lcwords.com  Thu Aug 14 08:11:21 2008
From: z.szalbot at lcwords.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:11:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Mailman layout
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <48A3CC89.9070701@lcwords.com>

Hi all,

> The "best" way to add css or similar things to these pages is to modify
> the Format() method of the Document() class in Mailman/htmlformat.py.

What something like that work or do I need to learn python? :)

            output.append('' % charset)

            output.append('' % charset 
\n '')

Many thanks for further ideas!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot
www.LCWords.com

From david at midrange.com  Thu Aug 14 13:23:23 2008
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 06:23:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<48A3A2CA.4040900@midrange.com>
	
Message-ID: <48A415AB.6010509@midrange.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> Yeah, but rate-limiting is nothing like having all your e-mail silently 
> dropped on the floor.  At least you're getting something through, and 
> you usually know something about that fact.

Obviously ... I just mentioned it to show AOL's general perspective towards people who participate in the feedback loop program.

david

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 14 17:42:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:42:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Mailman layout
In-Reply-To: <48A3CC89.9070701@lcwords.com>
Message-ID: 

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>What something like that work or do I need to learn python? :)
>
>            output.append('                           'content="text/html; charset=%s">' % charset)
>
>            output.append('                           'content="text/html; charset=%s">' % charset 
>\n 'type="text/css">')


Learning Python is always worthwhile :)

The above replacement won't work for a few technical reasons. Do it
this way:

            output.append('' % charset)
            output.append('')

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From db at davepress.net  Thu Aug 14 18:02:17 2008
From: db at davepress.net (Dave Briggs)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:02:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set up HTML form to feed into Mailman
Message-ID: <130765DB-E365-45EE-970F-69199CE1DB92@davepress.net>

Hi all

How hard would it be to create an HTML form for a website which could  
be used to subscribe people to a list, rather than using the one on  
the mailman site for the list?

Thanks

Dave Briggs
db at davepress.net | www.davepress.net | 07525 209589





From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 14 18:35:02 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:35:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set up HTML form to feed into Mailman
In-Reply-To: <130765DB-E365-45EE-970F-69199CE1DB92@davepress.net>
Message-ID: 

Dave Briggs wrote:
>
>How hard would it be to create an HTML form for a website which could  
>be used to subscribe people to a list, rather than using the one on  
>the mailman site for the list?


See FAQ 4.33 .

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From michael_lynn at ml.com  Thu Aug 14 18:35:04 2008
From: michael_lynn at ml.com (Lynn, Michael (GWM-CAI))
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:35:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set up HTML form to feed into Mailman
In-Reply-To: <130765DB-E365-45EE-970F-69199CE1DB92@davepress.net>
References: <130765DB-E365-45EE-970F-69199CE1DB92@davepress.net>
Message-ID: 

Dave,

You mean instead of using the python driven web form that comes with
mailman?

You can create a front-end to the existing subscription processes using
an html form that collects the necessary parameters and submits them to
mailman via the form's ACTION=.

Here are the required params:
email, fullname, pw, pw-conf (confirmed...same as pw), digest,
email-button

Here's a super-simple example:



Subscribe to List



Email: 


Full Name: 


Password: 

Confirm: 


Digest: 






Keep in mind - you'll probably want to implement or write a cgi script
to verify some of the input fields and scrub the data... and verify that
the pw matches pw-conf... but it's a start.

I wrote a script that allows folks to subscribe remotely from command
line on a unix/linux server as long as they have cURL installed... will
forward that along if anybody's interested. 

Here's the important line from the script.  The $VARS are collected from
the stdin or prompted.

curl -s
$MAILMANURL/${LIST}?email=${UEMAIL}&fullname=$FIRSTNAME%20$LASTNAME&pw=$
PW&pw-conf=$PW&digest=0&email-button=Submit

YMMV.

Rgds,
Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+michael_lynn=ml.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+michael_lynn=ml.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Dave Briggs
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 12:02 PM
To: Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set up HTML form to feed into Mailman

Hi all

How hard would it be to create an HTML form for a website which could  
be used to subscribe people to a list, rather than using the one on  
the mailman site for the list?

Thanks

Dave Briggs
db at davepress.net | www.davepress.net | 07525 209589




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From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug 14 18:50:42 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:50:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: <20080814054034.GC28291@charite.de>
References: 
		<48A3083E.3020802@midrange.com>
	<20080814054034.GC28291@charite.de>
Message-ID: 

On 8/14/08, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

>  Care to share a picture of how it looks? No retard aoluser was able to
>  send me a screenshot. Yet.

It differs depending on which version of which client you're running 
on which platform.

Is there a specific version you're looking for?

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug 14 18:51:52 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:51:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: <48A415AB.6010509@midrange.com>
References: 
	 <48A3A2CA.4040900@midrange.com>
	 <48A415AB.6010509@midrange.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/14/08, David Gibbs wrote:

>  Obviously ... I just mentioned it to show AOL's general perspective
>  towards people who participate in the feedback loop program.

Their attitude towards us is better than their attitude towards the 
rest of the effluent.  At least we're floating on top.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Aug 14 19:11:00 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:11:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<48A3A2CA.4040900@midrange.com>
	
	<48A415AB.6010509@midrange.com>
	
Message-ID: <200808141707.m7EH7MRM028887@newbox.eroded.org>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>On 8/14/08, David Gibbs wrote:
>
>>  Obviously ... I just mentioned it to show AOL's general perspective
>>  towards people who participate in the feedback loop program.
>
>Their attitude towards us is better than their attitude towards the 
>rest of the effluent.  At least we're floating on top.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Yes, but being on a shaky, leaky canoe ready to sink or capsize on 
top of a cesspool is still not a very nice place to be.

;-)

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 14 19:12:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:12:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newsrunner infinite loop
In-Reply-To: <48A35600.50402@sun.com>
Message-ID: 

Max Lanfranconi wrote:
>
>I have a mailman 2.1.11 installation running about 1000 mailing lists.
>Each of them is bi-directionally gatewayed via NNTP.
>
>I have been hitting the following scenario:
>
>Email 'a' is made of a text body and email 'b' as a text attachment.


Is the attachment Content-Type: text/plain or message/rfc822?


>Email 'b' is made of a text body and another non-text attachment.
>
>Posting email 'a' to any mailing list gets email a distributed to all 
>the mailing list members but puts  NewsRunner in the following infinite 
>loop (1 traceback per second. Needless to say, the posting never makes 
>it to the newsgroup)
>
>Aug 13 14:36:30 2008 (25129) Uncaught runner exception:
>Aug 13 14:36:30 2008 (25129) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/NewsRunner.py", line 86, in 
>_dispose
>    conn.quit()
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/nntplib.py", line 600, in quit
>    resp = self.shortcmd('QUIT')
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/nntplib.py", line 260, in shortcmd
>    return self.getresp()
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/nntplib.py", line 215, in getresp
>    resp = self.getline()
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/nntplib.py", line 207, in getline
>    if not line: raise EOFError
>EOFError
>
>
>Any hint about what may cause this ?


The immediate cause is NewsRunner has a try: ... finally: and in the
finally: clause does

            finally:
                if conn:
                    conn.quit()

to close the nntp connection if it is open. It appears that the
connection may be already closed at this point because of a prior
exception. Are there any '(NNTPDirect) xxx error for list ...'
messages in the error log?. If not you could locate the following in
Mailman/Queue/NewsRunner.py

                except nntplib.error_temp, e:
                    syslog('error',
                           '(NNTPDirect) NNTP error for list "%s": %s',
                           mlist.internal_name(), e)
                except socket.error, e:
                    syslog('error',
                           '(NNTPDirect) socket error for list "%s":
%s',
                           mlist.internal_name(), e)
            finally:
                if conn:
                    conn.quit()

and replace

                except nntplib.error_temp, e:

with

                except nntplib.NNTPError, e:

and see if that gives any more information. nntplib does have a debug
facility, but don't try to use it because it writes the debug output
to stdout and NewsRunner doesn't have a stdout so this just causes
more problems.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug 14 19:20:03 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:20:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
In-Reply-To: <200808141707.m7EH7MRM028887@newbox.eroded.org>
References: 
		<48A3A2CA.4040900@midrange.com>
		<48A415AB.6010509@midrange.com>
	
	<200808141707.m7EH7MRM028887@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: 

On 8/14/08, Dragon wrote:

>  Yes, but being on a shaky, leaky canoe ready to sink or capsize on top of
>  a cesspool is still not a very nice place to be.

Who said you had the luxury of being in a canoe?

You're swimming in it, buddy.


They're squatting somewhere above you, and you just hope that you 
have enough time to swim away from the direction and area of impact 
when they decide to let loose again.  Oh, and you want to be real 
careful when you try to breathe.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 14 19:41:29 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:41:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Manually bouncing messages to a mailman list
In-Reply-To: <20080813195142.GB3626@pegasus>
Message-ID: 

Cristian Rigamonti wrote:
>
>On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 08:33:14AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> I don't yet understand why Mailman would discard the message, but I am
>> able to duplicate the problem, so I will investigate further tomorrow.
>
>Thank you very much! Let me know if I can help you somehow (reminder: I'm using
>mailman version 2.1.9)


It turns out I was mistaken. I can't duplicate the problem. I only
thought I could because the test list I was using had
generic_nonmember_action set to Discard. When I set that to Hold, the
mutt bounced message is held as expected.

If you are sure that you don't have some list setting like the above
that's causing this, you can bounce a message to both the list and to
me , and I'll look at it further. If you do this,
also send me an email from you so I don't just ignore the 'bounced'
email as spam.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ed at justbrits.com  Fri Aug 15 05:06:15 2008
From: ed at justbrits.com (Ed at JustBrits)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:06:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set up HTML form to feed into Mailman
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

<be used to subscribe people to a list, rather than using the one on  
>the mailman site for the list?
See FAQ 4.33 .>>

Off the top of your head Mark, would that be viable in a cPanel situation??

Tnx, as always!!

Ed



From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 15 04:41:43 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:41:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set up HTML form to feed into Mailman
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Ed at JustBrits wrote:

><>be used to subscribe people to a list, rather than using the one on  
>>the mailman site for the list?
>See FAQ 4.33 .>>
>
>Off the top of your head Mark, would that be viable in a cPanel situation??


Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From contact at strategicwebdesign.net  Fri Aug 15 14:41:56 2008
From: contact at strategicwebdesign.net (Strategic Web Design)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 05:41:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I backup the emls in database?
Message-ID: <1296.44330.qm@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm in a pickle here.? 

I have a couple of websites that have over 2000 emails in the mailing list.? I am moving the sites to another server. ? How do I extract the emails [preferably a .txt file] so I can put them in the new mailing list on the new server [which is also "mailman"]

I go to members list, and the only options are clicking on the "letters" to view the email addresses. 

Thanks for all your help!?? :o)

~Melissa




From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 15 16:32:42 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 07:32:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I backup the emls in database?
In-Reply-To: <1296.44330.qm@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

Strategic Web Design wrote:

>I'm in a pickle here.? 


I'm guessing that's not an intentional pun. Too bad.


>I have a couple of websites that have over 2000 emails in the mailing list.? I am moving the sites to another server. ? How do I extract the emails [preferably a .txt file] so I can put them in the new mailing list on the new server [which is also "mailman"]
>
>I go to members list, and the only options are clicking on the "letters" to view the email addresses. 


I assume that means you don't have access to the underlying Mailman
installation, and just have access to the Mailman GUI. In that case,
see the "other ways" at .

If you can get access to the underlying data and are moving to another
Mailman installation, all you need to do to move the list itself is
move the Python pickle that contains the list settings and membership
(lists//config.pck) to the new installation. There are a few
more steps to move the list's archives.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From consult at hlfunk.com  Fri Aug 15 20:40:51 2008
From: consult at hlfunk.com (Howard L. Funk)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:40:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics
Message-ID: <200808151840.m7FIeqVH015637@Mycroft.westnet.com>

I have a simple html form and script that allows users to subscribe 
or cancel a mailman account.

I would like to add to this form and script the ability to select 
topics rather than having the user go to the options page.

Is there something I can add after mylist-subscribe at mymailman.com 
that would pass along the correct parameters for setting a topic choice?

H.L. Funk Consulting
7 Diane Court
Katonah, NY 10536
Phone/Fax: 914-232-3530


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 15 21:33:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 12:33:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics
In-Reply-To: <200808151840.m7FIeqVH015637@Mycroft.westnet.com>
Message-ID: 

Howard L. Funk wrote:
>
>I would like to add to this form and script the ability to select 
>topics rather than having the user go to the options page.
>
>Is there something I can add after mylist-subscribe at mymailman.com 
>that would pass along the correct parameters for setting a topic choice?


No. Topics can't be set by email or as an integral part of a
subscription. They can only be set by the options CGI.

That doesn't mean you can't post to the options CGI from your own web
form, but the user must be a member, and you have to know the user's
password to do this. In other words, this is a two step process. You
have to first subscribe the user including any confirmation or
approval, and only after that can you set topics.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Sat Aug 16 00:01:47 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:01:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Demo import of bugs/patches/rfes to Launchpad
Message-ID: <3E4C749D-20C0-4C26-B4E2-64275A22921D@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I'm happy to announce a demo import from SourceForge's bug tracker,  
patches tracker, and feature request tracker into Launchpad, and I  
invite you to play with the new issue tracker so that we can decide  
whether or not to complete this step of project hosting migration.

The url is 

Things to note:

This is a /demo/ import meaning that you can play with it all you want  
and it will not affect the eventual production import of the issues.   
This is a live demo though, so you should be able to try out all the  
features you would have access to in the main Launchpad site.  Just  
remember that at the end of the demo, all these changes will be lost.

All three SF trackers have been collapsed into one tracker on LP.   
With only 632 open issues, hopefully this will not be a problem, but  
if it is we can at least just import the bug tracker when/if we  
switch.  If we wanted to import all three trackers but keep them  
separate, we'd have to figure something out.

I don't have a timeframe for converting, or deciding to convert.  Much  
depends on your feedback (and especially Mark's) and the readiness of  
the LP administrators to do the production import.  I think if we like  
it, we could make the switch fairly quickly.

Please send your feedback to me and I will communicate it back to the  
Launchpad developers working on this.  My thanks go to Graham Binns  
and Tom Haddon.

Enjoy,
- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAkil/MwACgkQ2YZpQepbvXE0YgCdEdgPHKbXjd/JIlxenrlQmdUi
fEoAn2QuaTwi/H1Ks9AYVEnFeFQLi7lZ
=OHCC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 16 02:46:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:46:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] several questions.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Copying the list.

James - Dunn Deal PR wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>>Do you get any mail from Mailman. E.g., the notice to the list owner
>>that the list was created; welcome messages to new subscribers?
>
>Yes, I have been receiving all that information steadily.
>
>I am making some headway now. I went to the "Tend to pending moderator
>requests" and saw that my very first test message from August 8 had been
>held because the sender, ie me, was not a member of the group. So I
>added myself and the message made it - but only to one of the three
>email addresses in the list.
>
>I tried one again just now, then went to the 'moderator requests' page
>again, and saw that this one has been held because I have activated the
>setting that requires all messages to be moderated before sending. I did
>this because I don't want anyone but the owners of the three designated
>administrative email addresses to be able to send messages to the whole
>list. Is there any way I can set that up, but not have the messages that
>we send moderated?


See the FAQ article at  for suggestions on
setting up a "one-way" list. Post using an Approved: header as
discussed in that FAQ to avoid having authorized posts held.


>Anyway, I clicked 'accept' and the email landed, but again, only to one
>of the three email addresses in the list. One is a gmail address, which
>receives the tests. The other is my administrative email for the site
>(james at dunndealpr.com) that I entered into the list after my first test
>message did not go through. The third is another email address I have
>set up. However, the two non-gmail email addresses both use the same
>server; the one that MailMan is stored on. Could that possibly be the
>reason those emails aren't receiving the messages I send to the mailing
>list?


Posts From: a gmail address will never be received back at that
address. See .

It is not clear to me from the above where the post was received. If it
was received by the gmail address and not by the local server
addresses, it's possible there's some issue relating to that, but did
these addresses receive their list welcome or other mail from Mailman?
If so, then Mailman can send to them and that isn't the problem.

The address that sent the post will not receive it if 'not metoo' is
checked in the admin Membership List. Also, addresses which have
'digest' checked will only receive digests, not messages (for an
announcement type list, you probably want Digest options -> digestable
set to No).

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 16 03:40:56 2008
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 01:40:56 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Syntax Error..
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 


Dear mailman guys,
 
I'm installing mailman on a dedicated server with debian, when trying to integrate mailman with postfix by changing the mm_cfg.py and un-commenting the MTA line:
 
#-------------------------------------------------------------# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains, but be sure to# read /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.POSTFIX first. MTA='Postfix'
 
it gives me the followng error when I try to do anything, for example creating a new list:
 
********************************************
Traceback (most recent call last):  File "./newlist", line 103, in ?    from Mailman import mm_cfg  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 94    MTA=Postfix    ^SyntaxError: invalid syntax
********************************************
 
 
What should I do ??
 
Thanks a million ..
_________________________________________________________________
Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger.  Find out how.
http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yahoo_082008

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 16 03:56:21 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:56:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Syntax Error..
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Khalil Abbas wrote:
> 
>I'm installing mailman on a dedicated server with debian, when trying to integrate mailman with postfix by changing the mm_cfg.py and un-commenting the MTA line:
> 
>#-------------------------------------------------------------# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains, but be sure to# read /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.POSTFIX first. MTA='Postfix'
> 
>it gives me the followng error when I try to do anything, for example creating a new list:
> 
>********************************************
>Traceback (most recent call last):  File "./newlist", line 103, in ?    from Mailman import mm_cfg  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 94    MTA=Postfix    ^SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>********************************************


Do you see the difference between what you quote above and what's in
the traceback?

What you need in mm_cfg.py is

MTA = 'Postfix'

The spaces around the = are optional but the quotes are mandatory and
MTA must not be indented at all.

Also, I know that it's really hotmail that's at fault, but it would
help us if code and tracebacks weren't run together without line
breaks. Try composuing in plain text. (sorry for the rant, this
hotmail issue is a sore point with me)

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 16 05:29:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:29:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Syntax Error..
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>sorry for the inconvenience..
> 
>the problem was that there's a space before MTA : " MTA=" not "MTA="
> 
>but I still can't access the mailman web interface although I did the following :


Noe of what you list below has anything to do with being able to access
the web interface.


>1. I added the following line to mm_cfg.py :
> 
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['my.domain1.com']
>(my.domain1.com is my registered domain name)
> 
>2. newlist list_name at my.domain1.com, and answered the questions.
> 
>3. I ran the following command:
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases
> 
>4. when I try to run the following commands :
> 
>/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases 
> 
>and 
> 
>/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman 
> 
>I get the following errors :
> 
>-bash: /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases: Permission denied
> 
>and :
> 
>-bash: /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman: Permission denied
> 
>what to do about that?


Those are not commands. They are data files which is why you can't
execute them. What are you trying to accomplish?

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 16 16:58:40 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 07:58:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Syntax Error..
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Copying the list

Khalil Abbas wrote:
> 
>I'm trying to install mailman in debian and following step by step instructions in debian help website at this address :
> 
>http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/mailman.htm
> 
>My problem is that I followed the instructions step by step but can't access the web interface although I tried all forms of possible url's :
> 
>www.mydomain.com/mailman/create
>www.mydomain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/create
>www.mydomain.com/mailman/admin/list 
>www.mydomain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/list 
>....etc ..
> 
>I'm going nuts, I've been suffering for 2 weeks trying to install mailman and reading through manuals and FAQ's and each time I get stuck in something ..


You are installing a Debian package. The people on this list are most
familiar with installation of GNU Mailman from our source distribution.

You might get better answers from Debian support resources.

However, the instructions at http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/mailman.htm
say "Mailman will integrate itself into your webserver if you're
running Apache or Apache2". This implies that the package creates a
file included in the apache configuration. Perhaps something like
/etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman. What's in that file? And, have you reloaded
or restarted httpd since you installed Mailman.

Please reply on the list. Every time you reply off list to me, the
thread gets broken in the archive which makes it that much harder for
the next person to find any resolution.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From javiabd at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 18 05:15:05 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 20:15:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reason : Message has implicit destination
Message-ID: <270259.85475.qm@web63702.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hi
A member within ( non moderated list ) sent message to the list and it went to moderator approval

reason: Message has implicit destination.

what does this mean?

thanks



      

From lev at vpac.org  Mon Aug 18 06:06:44 2008
From: lev at vpac.org (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:06:44 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reason : Message has implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <270259.85475.qm@web63702.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1447276965.123671219032404141.JavaMail.root@mail.vpac.org>


----- "Abdul Javid"  wrote:

> Hi
> A member within ( non moderated list ) sent message to the list and it
> went to moderator approval
> 
> reason: Message has implicit destination.
> 
> what does this mean?
> 

This means the message has been sent without the address for the list was not found in the to: or cc: headers (for example it was sent bcc). I believe it's a spam-protection device.

If you're managing the list via the web interface you could turn off this requirement under "Privacy Options"-"Recipient Filters"

HTH,


-- 
Lev Lafayette (03) 9925 4909
Systems Administrator
110 Victoria St
Carlton South, 3053

From z.szalbot at lcwords.com  Mon Aug 18 14:52:40 2008
From: z.szalbot at lcwords.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:52:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Mailman layout
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <48A97098.10500@lcwords.com>

Hello,

Mark Sapiro:
> Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>> What something like that work or do I need to learn python? :)
>>
>>            output.append('>                           'content="text/html; charset=%s">' % charset)
>>
>>            output.append('>                           'content="text/html; charset=%s">' % charset 
>> \n '> type="text/css">')
> 
> 
> Learning Python is always worthwhile :)
> 
> The above replacement won't work for a few technical reasons. Do it
> this way:
> 
>             output.append('                           'content="text/html; charset=%s">' % charset)
>             output.append('                    'href="domain.tld/stylesheet.css" type="text/css">')
> 

Thanks! I ran into another problem. I modified the general list 
information page for one of the lists.

I edited it from the command line to include a style sheet in it (to 
test before I do it site-wide). This cannot be done via GUI. Anyway, as 
long as the link to a stylesheet is a full URL, all is fine. When it is 
a relative link (like css/stylesheet.css) or full directory path 
(/path/to/mailman/lists/en/css/stylesheet.css) it does not work either. 
Can be files referenced from directories and not by full URLs?

Thanks!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot
www.LCWords.com

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Mon Aug 18 15:51:18 2008
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Simon)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:51:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Default new_member_options - no mail?
Message-ID: <48A97E56.3060403@libertytrek.org>

Hi,

Is there a way to set the default new_member_option to no mail?
Apparently you can't from the GUI, but is there a way to do this in
mm_cfg.py or somewhere else?

Thanks...

From z.szalbot at lcwords.com  Mon Aug 18 15:56:15 2008
From: z.szalbot at lcwords.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:56:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] login
In-Reply-To: <008c01c90150$c5cda550$4001a8c0@pc01>
References: 
	<48A97098.10500@lcwords.com> <008c01c90150$c5cda550$4001a8c0@pc01>
Message-ID: <48A97F7F.8020007@lcwords.com>

CK pisze:
> Hi Sbigniew,
> 
> I got your email from the list.
> 
> Can I ask you a question concerning this alert I got on my website ?
> 
> I am afraid it is a little bit stupid.
> 
> I can not access my administration page. When I try to "log in", it say :
> 
> "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
> 
> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
> traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
> the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. "
> 
> Do you may be know where I can find the "Mailman error logs" on my PC or 
> my "traceback" ?
> 
> My english is not so good, so I hope you understand me.
> 
> Did you ever met that pb yourself ?

I am certainly not an expert here.
To find out location of your mailman try "whereis mailman" command. On 
FreeBSD which I am a happy user of, mailman is installed in 
/usr/local/mailman/ and the logs would be in /usr/local/mailman/logs/
Of special interest will /path/to/mailman/logs/error log.

Maybe this is some sort of permission problem but I am sure others will 
be able to contribute much more.

And I do not know who pb is :)

Thanks!

Zbigniew Szalbot

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Mon Aug 18 16:53:57 2008
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Simon)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:53:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin_member_chunksize - can't set to larger than 29
Message-ID: <48A98D05.3040001@libertytrek.org>

Probably something obvious I'm missing...

Oh - I'm on mailman 2.1.11 for this and the other question I had about
setting the default new_member_options to no mail for a list...

I can change the admin_member_chunksize on the General Options page, but
setting it to anything larger than 29 doesn't allow me to see more than
29 members on a page... if I set it to 20, it does limit the number
displayed to 20...

Is there a max setting somewhere that I have to override in mm_cfg.py or
somewhere else, like maybe the DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 30' setting?

Thanks,

-- 

Simon

From og at digimark.net  Mon Aug 18 17:36:28 2008
From: og at digimark.net (Gary Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:36:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages just began to be shunted,
	can't figure out why.
Message-ID: 

Hello. I've had a long running Mailman installation with about a dozen lists
spread over four domain names on a Dell PowerEdge with 3GB RAM running CentOS
3.9 (fully patched). We're using the non-default Sendmail 8.14.1. I've upgraded
to 2.1.11 in June and everything was working fine/clean until last Friday
night.  We had a problem with our SpamAssassin subsystem dropping offline for a
few hours, and we rebooted the machine to reset everything.

Since then, messages I attempt to post to a Cub Scout list hosted in Mailman
have been shunted. Unshunting them just requeues them again. This is the error
message text I'm getting:

-----------------
Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) Uncaught runner exception: recips
Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Handlers/AvoidDuplicates.py", line 39, in process
     recips = msgdata['recips']
KeyError: recips

Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) SHUNTING: 1219015598.1364529+cd4fcf44c07ffa9b1b0bfa53882233f59121be5f
Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) Uncaught runner exception: recips
Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Handlers/AvoidDuplicates.py", line 39, in process
     recips = msgdata['recips']
KeyError: recips

Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) SHUNTING: 1219015818.240051+5a69da3e2069c3651120d6d82780d698a34d8450
Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) Uncaught runner exception: recips
Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Handlers/AvoidDuplicates.py", line 39, in process
     recips = msgdata['recips']
KeyError: recips

Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) SHUNTING: 1219027815.2000761+2a51d7a1d8075b0725278b944eeac7be2eac54e3
-----------------

The system doesn't appear to be out of memory, as suggested by another message
exchange here. The system has python 2.2.3 installed. Can anyone suggest a line
of attack for figuring this out and dealing with it? I reinstalled mailman over
top of the current installation -- no apparent difference.

Thanks in advance for any insight. -Gary

-- 
-- "Gentleman, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room." -President Muffley
Gary Goldberg KA3ZYW  V:301/249-6501 F:301/390-1955 AIM:OgGreeb
Digital Marketing/Bowie MD/Internet Systems & Networks 

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 18 18:30:40 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:30:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Mailman layout
In-Reply-To: <48A97098.10500@lcwords.com>
Message-ID: 

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>Thanks! I ran into another problem. I modified the general list 
>information page for one of the lists.
>
>I edited it from the command line to include a style sheet in it (to 
>test before I do it site-wide). This cannot be done via GUI. Anyway, as 
>long as the link to a stylesheet is a full URL, all is fine. When it is 
>a relative link (like css/stylesheet.css) or full directory path 
>(/path/to/mailman/lists/en/css/stylesheet.css) it does not work either. 
>Can be files referenced from directories and not by full URLs?


First of all, if you think you're saving anything by including a
relative or absolute path as the href= value of the stylesheet link as
opposed to a URL, you are not.

If you have for example in your template that becomes
, something like



that gets sent to the browser just as is, and the browser considers
that as relative to the base URL and does an HTTP GET of path
/mailman/listinfo/css/stylesheet.css from www.example.com to get the
style sheet. The two points are:

- it is no different in terms of HTTP interaction from the case of
putting an absolute URL in the href=, and

- in this example at least, it doesn't work because the web server has
a ScriptAlias for /mailman/ so the web server processes this request
by invoking Mailman's listinfo cgi wrapper which isn't going to serve
the stylesheet.

You probably can specify a full directory path to the css, but the web
server will still look for it relative to the servers document root,
and it isn't really any different from specifying it as a URL.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Mon Aug 18 18:38:26 2008
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Simon)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:38:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin_member_chunksize - can't set to larger
 than 29
In-Reply-To: <48A98D05.3040001@libertytrek.org>
References: <48A98D05.3040001@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <48A9A582.4060103@libertytrek.org>

On 8/18/2008 10:53 AM, Simon wrote:
> Probably something obvious I'm missing...
> 
> Oh - I'm on mailman 2.1.11 for this and the other question I had about
> setting the default new_member_options to no mail for a list...
> 
> I can change the admin_member_chunksize on the General Options page, but
> setting it to anything larger than 29 doesn't allow me to see more than
> 29 members on a page... if I set it to 20, it does limit the number
> displayed to 20...
> 
> Is there a max setting somewhere that I have to override in mm_cfg.py or
> somewhere else, like maybe the DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 30' setting?

Never mind... it was brain-freeze... since the total number of
subscribers was always greater than the max_chunk I was setting, it was
limiting the display alphabetically - and there were only 29 members
that started with 'A'...

Sorry for the noise...

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 18 18:44:00 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:44:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] login
In-Reply-To: <48A97F7F.8020007@lcwords.com>
Message-ID: 

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

>CK pisze:
>> 
>> I can not access my administration page. When I try to "log in", it say :
>> 
>> "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
>> 
>> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>> traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
>> the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. "
>> 
>> Do you may be know where I can find the "Mailman error logs" on my PC or 
>> my "traceback" ?


The Mailman error logs with the traceback are not on your PC. They are
on the server that hosts your Mailman list. You need to report this
problem to the people who administer that server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From z.szalbot at lcwords.com  Mon Aug 18 19:10:50 2008
From: z.szalbot at lcwords.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:10:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Mailman layout
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <48A9AD1A.6020508@lcwords.com>

Mark Sapiro pisze:
> First of all, if you think you're saving anything by including a
> relative or absolute path as the href= value of the stylesheet link as
> opposed to a URL, you are not.
> 
> If you have for example in your template that becomes
> , something like
> 
> 
> 
> that gets sent to the browser just as is, and the browser considers
> that as relative to the base URL and does an HTTP GET of path
> /mailman/listinfo/css/stylesheet.css from www.example.com to get the
> style sheet. The two points are:
> 
> - it is no different in terms of HTTP interaction from the case of
> putting an absolute URL in the href=, and
> 
> - in this example at least, it doesn't work because the web server has
> a ScriptAlias for /mailman/ so the web server processes this request
> by invoking Mailman's listinfo cgi wrapper which isn't going to serve
> the stylesheet.
> 
> You probably can specify a full directory path to the css, but the web
> server will still look for it relative to the servers document root,
> and it isn't really any different from specifying it as a URL.
> 
All this is true and I well realize that. The example with css is 
simple. No problem. I actually have a problem with a javascript file 
that the layoput designer has used. I am suspecting it won't display 
because I have to use a complete URL instead of a relative one as often 
is a case with javascripts. Maybe the same principle applies. If anyone 
knows, I'd be happy if you drop me a line!

Thanks!


Zbigniew Szalbot

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 18 19:17:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:17:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages just began to be shunted,
	can't figure out why.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Gary Goldberg wrote:

>Hello. I've had a long running Mailman installation with about a dozen lists
>spread over four domain names on a Dell PowerEdge with 3GB RAM running CentOS
>3.9 (fully patched). We're using the non-default Sendmail 8.14.1. I've upgraded
>to 2.1.11 in June and everything was working fine/clean until last Friday
>night.  We had a problem with our SpamAssassin subsystem dropping offline for a
>few hours, and we rebooted the machine to reset everything.


Sometime people make changes (or yum updates) that are not effective
until a reboot or service restart but don't reboot or restart. Then
later, a reboot is done for some reason and no one remembers what was
changed that now causes a problem.


>Since then, messages I attempt to post to a Cub Scout list hosted in Mailman
>have been shunted. Unshunting them just requeues them again. This is the error
>message text I'm getting:
>
>-----------------
>Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) Uncaught runner exception: recips
>Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
>     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
>     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Handlers/AvoidDuplicates.py", line 39, in process
>     recips = msgdata['recips']
>KeyError: recips
>
>Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) SHUNTING: 1219015598.1364529+cd4fcf44c07ffa9b1b0bfa53882233f59121be5f

>-----------------


When the message gets to the AvoidDuplicates handler, it has no
recipient list in the message metadata. In the normal pipeline,
AvoidDuplicates is immediately preceded by CalcRecips which ensures
there is a 'recips' list (possibly empty). Apparently, that isn't
happening with this list.

Do other lists work?

The timestamps on the tracebacks (including those I snipped) are all
the same indicating that these are probably from an unshunt. These
messages can never be successfully unshunted because the pipeline in
the metadata of the shunted message starts with AvoidDuplicates, but
the metadata has no 'recips' list, so even after fixing the underlying
problem, you won't be able to simply unshunt these messages. Anyway,
is the traceback from an initial post the same?

So, what is the traceback from an initial post? If it is the same, and
other lists work, do 'bin/dumpdb
lists//config.pck' and see if the output has a
'pipeline' attribute and if so, does it have CalcRecips preceding
AvoidDuplicates?

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 18 19:35:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:35:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Default new_member_options - no mail?
In-Reply-To: <48A97E56.3060403@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: 

Simon wrote:
>
>Is there a way to set the default new_member_option to no mail?
>Apparently you can't from the GUI, but is there a way to do this in
>mm_cfg.py or somewhere else?


You'd have to modify the code to do this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 18 19:56:33 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:56:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Mailman layout
In-Reply-To: <48A9AD1A.6020508@lcwords.com>
Message-ID: 

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>> 
>All this is true and I well realize that. The example with css is 
>simple. No problem. I actually have a problem with a javascript file 
>that the layoput designer has used. I am suspecting it won't display 
>because I have to use a complete URL instead of a relative one as often 
>is a case with javascripts. Maybe the same principle applies. If anyone 
>knows, I'd be happy if you drop me a line!


Any relative reference to anything on a page that is served by a
Mailman CGI is going to be relative to that CGI and will re-invoke the
CGI. Whether or not it works depends on the context:

For example, if there were a tag like  on the page
served by  (there isn't,
but), that would work because it is equivalent to
 which is a URL that
does the expected thing. Although, even that wouldn't work if the URL
that invoked the page didn't end with '/'.

OTOH, a reference to "some/javascript" is not going to work because
 is not going
to serve the javascript; it's going to attempt to serve the listinfo
page for the list named "some".

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From z.szalbot at lcwords.com  Mon Aug 18 20:07:01 2008
From: z.szalbot at lcwords.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:07:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Mailman layout
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <48A9BA45.3000203@lcwords.com>

Mark Sapiro pisze:
> OTOH, a reference to "some/javascript" is not going to work because 
>  is not
> going to serve the javascript; it's going to attempt to serve the
> listinfo page for the list named "some".

Thank you Mark - do I read it correctly that javascript files won't work
and the only thing to do is get rid of it and define graphics in the css
style sheet?

Zbigniew Szalbot

From og at digimark.net  Mon Aug 18 20:17:13 2008
From: og at digimark.net (Gary Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:17:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages just began to be shunted,
 can't figure out why.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Thank you for the reply. I do regularly use yum to apply CentOS patches to the
server, and that could be a source, although after looking at the yum.log, I couldn't say
which patch might be a source of the problem. Here's the yum log back to the prior
reboot though...

Mar 23 13:07:44 Updated: krb5-devel 1.2.7-68.i386
Mar 23 13:07:44 Updated: netpbm 9.24-11.30.5.i386
Mar 23 13:07:44 Updated: tzdata 2007k-2.el3.noarch
Mar 23 13:07:44 Updated: krb5-libs 1.2.7-68.i386
Jun 01 09:27:43 Installed: kernel-smp 2.4.21-57.EL.i686
Jun 01 09:27:43 Installed: kernel 2.4.21-57.EL.i686
Jun 01 09:27:43 Updated: libxslt 1.0.33-6.i386
Jun 01 09:27:43 Updated: tzdata 2008b-3.el3.noarch
Jun 18 22:41:31 Updated: XFree86-libs-data 4.3.0-128.EL.i386
Jun 18 22:41:31 Updated: perl 2:5.8.0-98.EL3.i386
Jun 18 22:41:31 Updated: perl-CGI 2:2.89-98.EL3.i386
Jun 18 22:41:31 Updated: XFree86-Mesa-libGL 4.3.0-128.EL.i386
Jun 18 22:41:31 Updated: XFree86-libs 4.3.0-128.EL.i386
Jun 27 11:18:14 Updated: freetype 2.1.4-10.el3.i386
Jul 11 21:16:12 Updated: bind 20:9.2.4-22.el3.i386
Jul 11 21:16:12 Updated: bind-utils 20:9.2.4-22.el3.i386
Jul 11 21:16:12 Updated: bind-libs 20:9.2.4-22.el3.i386
Aug 01 17:02:36 Updated: vsftpd 1.2.1-3E.16.i386
Aug 17 19:53:30 Updated: pam_krb5 1.81-1.i386
Aug 17 19:54:23 Installed: python-devel 2.2.3-6.8.i386
Aug 17 19:54:23 Installed: python-tools 2.2.3-6.8.i386
Aug 17 19:54:23 Dep Installed: tix 1:8.1.4-92.8.i386
Aug 17 19:54:23 Dep Installed: tkinter 2.2.3-6.8.i386
Aug 17 19:54:23 Dep Installed: tcl 8.3.5-92.8.i386
Aug 17 19:54:23 Dep Installed: tk 8.3.5-92.8.i386
Aug 17 19:54:23 Dep Installed: itcl 3.2-92.8.i386

I uninstalled and reinstalled python yesterday, in case that was a source of
problems, and I added the python-devel and python-tools just in case (which
required tcl/tk).

I sent a test message and it got shunted again. Here's the output of the dumpdb
for the config.pck of the list (except for the email addresses blanked) and
also the same command on one of the message pck's.

-------

[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
{   'accept_these_nonmembers': [],
     'acceptable_aliases': '\n',
     'admin_immed_notify': 1,
     'admin_member_chunksize': 30,
     'admin_notify_mchanges': 0,
     'admin_responses': {},
     'administrivia': 1,
     'advertised': 1,
     'anonymous_list': 0,
     'archive': 1,
     'archive_private': 1,
     'archive_volume_frequency': 0,
     'autorespond_admin': 0,
     'autorespond_postings': 0,
     'autorespond_requests': 0,
     'autoresponse_admin_text': '',
     'autoresponse_graceperiod': 90,
     'autoresponse_postings_text': '',
     'autoresponse_request_text': '',
     'available_languages': ['en'],
     'ban_list': [],
     'bounce_info': {},
     'bounce_info_stale_after': 604800,
     'bounce_matching_headers': "\n# Lines that *start* with a '#' are comments.\nto: friend at public.com\nmessage-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu\nfrom: list at listme.com\nfrom: .*@uplinkpro.com\n",
     'bounce_notify_owner_on_disable': 1,
     'bounce_notify_owner_on_removal': 1,
     'bounce_processing': 1,
     'bounce_score_threshold': 5.0,
     'bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner': 0,
     'bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings': 3,
     'bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval': 604800,
     'collapse_alternatives': 1,
     'convert_html_to_plaintext': 1,
     'created_at': 1208394218.818414,
     'data_version': 97,
     'default_member_moderation': 0,
     'delivery_status': {},
     'description': 'Cub Scout Pack #1559 Leaders',
     'digest_footer': '_______________________________________________\r\n%(real_name)s mailing list\r\n%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s\r\n%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s\r\n',
     'digest_header': '',
     'digest_is_default': 0,
     'digest_last_sent_at': 0,
     'digest_members': {},
     'digest_send_periodic': 1,
     'digest_size_threshhold': 500,
     'digest_volume_frequency': 0,
     'digestable': 0,
     'discard_these_nonmembers': [],
     'emergency': 0,
     'encode_ascii_prefixes': 0,
     'filter_action': 0,
     'filter_content': 0,
     'filter_filename_extensions': [   'exe',
                                       'bat',
                                       'cmd',
                                       'com',
                                       'pif',
                                       'scr',
                                       'vbs',
                                       'cpl'],
     'filter_mime_types': [],
     'first_strip_reply_to': 1,
     'forward_auto_discards': 0,
     'gateway_to_mail': 0,
     'gateway_to_news': 0,
     'generic_nonmember_action': 3,
     'goodbye_msg': '',
     'header_filter_rules': [],
     'hold_and_cmd_autoresponses': {},
     'hold_these_nonmembers': [],
     'host_name': 'lists.pack1559.org',
     'include_list_post_header': 1,
     'include_rfc2369_headers': 1,
     'info': '',
     'language': {   'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX7YX': 'en',
                     'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 'en',
                     'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 'en',
                     'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 'en',
                     'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 'en',
                     'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 'en',
                     'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 'en'},
     'last_post_time': 1218819204.2599239,
     'linked_newsgroup': '',
     'max_days_to_hold': 0,
     'max_message_size': 10240,
     'max_num_recipients': 10,
     'member_moderation_action': 0,
     'member_moderation_notice': '',
     'members': {   'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 0,
                    'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 0,
                    'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 0,
                    'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 0,
                    'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 0,
                    'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 0,
                    'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 0},
     'mime_is_default_digest': 0,
     'mod_password': None,
     'moderator': [],
     'msg_footer': '_______________________________________________\n%(real_name)s mailing list\n%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s\n%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s\n',
     'msg_header': '',
     'new_member_options': 256,
     'news_moderation': 0,
     'news_prefix_subject_too': 1,
     'next_digest_number': 1,
     'next_post_number': 1,
     'next_request_id': 1,
     'nntp_host': '',
     'nondigestable': 1,
     'nonmember_rejection_notice': '',
     'obscure_addresses': 1,
     'one_last_digest': {},
     'owner': ['og at digimark.net'],
     'pass_filename_extensions': [],
     'pass_mime_types': [   'multipart/mixed',
                            'multipart/alternative',
                            'text/plain'],
     'password': '7db8fa373ffa8486d874ca346459da52d5c9a7b4',
     'passwords': { BLANKED },
     'personalize': 0,
     'post_id': 29.0,
     'postings_responses': {},
     'preferred_language': 'en',
     'private_roster': 1,
     'real_name': 'packleaders-l',
     'regular_exclude_lists': [],
     'regular_include_lists': [],
     'reject_these_nonmembers': [],
     'reply_goes_to_list': 1,
     'reply_to_address': '',
     'request_responses': {},
     'require_explicit_destination': 1,
     'respond_to_post_requests': 1,
     'scrub_nondigest': 0,
     'send_goodbye_msg': 0,
     'send_reminders': 0,
     'send_welcome_msg': 0,
     'subject_prefix': u'[packleaders-l] ',
     'subscribe_policy': 2,
     'topics': [],
     'topics_bodylines_limit': 5,
     'topics_enabled': 0,
     'topics_userinterest': {},
     'umbrella_list': 0,
     'umbrella_member_suffix': '-owner',
     'unsubscribe_policy': 1,
     'user_options': {   'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 264,
                         'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 264,
                         'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 264,
                         'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 264,
                         'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 264,
                         'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 264,
                         'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX': 264},
     'usernames': {   BLANKED },
     'useropts_version': 1,
     'volume': 1,
     'web_page_url': 'http://lists.pack1559.org/mailman/',
     'welcome_msg': ''}
[----- end pickle file -----]

-Gary

-- 
-- "Gentleman, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room." -President Muffley
Gary Goldberg KA3ZYW  V:301/249-6501 F:301/390-1955 AIM:OgGreeb
Digital Marketing/Bowie MD/Internet Systems & Networks 

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Gary Goldberg wrote:
>
>> Hello. I've had a long running Mailman installation with about a dozen lists
>> spread over four domain names on a Dell PowerEdge with 3GB RAM running CentOS
>> 3.9 (fully patched). We're using the non-default Sendmail 8.14.1. I've upgraded
>> to 2.1.11 in June and everything was working fine/clean until last Friday
>> night.  We had a problem with our SpamAssassin subsystem dropping offline for a
>> few hours, and we rebooted the machine to reset everything.
>
>
> Sometime people make changes (or yum updates) that are not effective
> until a reboot or service restart but don't reboot or restart. Then
> later, a reboot is done for some reason and no one remembers what was
> changed that now causes a problem.
>
>
>> Since then, messages I attempt to post to a Cub Scout list hosted in Mailman
>> have been shunted. Unshunting them just requeues them again. This is the error
>> message text I'm getting:
>>
>> -----------------
>> Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) Uncaught runner exception: recips
>> Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop >>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>>   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
>>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>>   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
>>     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>>   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
>>     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>>   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Handlers/AvoidDuplicates.py", line 39, in process
>>     recips = msgdata['recips']
>> KeyError: recips
>>
>> Aug 18 11:19:54 2008 (14837) SHUNTING: 1219015598.1364529+cd4fcf44c07ffa9b1b0bfa53882233f59121be5f
> 
>> -----------------
>
>
> When the message gets to the AvoidDuplicates handler, it has no
> recipient list in the message metadata. In the normal pipeline,
> AvoidDuplicates is immediately preceded by CalcRecips which ensures
> there is a 'recips' list (possibly empty). Apparently, that isn't
> happening with this list.
>
> Do other lists work?
>
> The timestamps on the tracebacks (including those I snipped) are all
> the same indicating that these are probably from an unshunt. These
> messages can never be successfully unshunted because the pipeline in
> the metadata of the shunted message starts with AvoidDuplicates, but
> the metadata has no 'recips' list, so even after fixing the underlying
> problem, you won't be able to simply unshunt these messages. Anyway,
> is the traceback from an initial post the same?
>
> So, what is the traceback from an initial post? If it is the same, and
> other lists work, do 'bin/dumpdb
> lists//config.pck' and see if the output has a
> 'pipeline' attribute and if so, does it have CalcRecips preceding
> AvoidDuplicates?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From og at digimark.net  Mon Aug 18 20:27:30 2008
From: og at digimark.net (Gary Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:27:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages just began to be shunted,
 can't figure out why.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

My apologies, I forgot to include the dumpdb of the latest message. Here it is:

[root at athena shunt]# /home/digimark/www-mailman/bin/dumpdb 1219082263.843436+005585610ba4a159240f8195f7cc2a955b5c7670.pck
[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
>From og at digimark.net Mon Aug 18 13:57:43 2008
Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [64.191.213.14])
 	by athena.digimark.net (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m7IHvhrQ007030
 	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO)
 	for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:57:43 -0400
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:57:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gary Goldberg 
To: packleaders-l at lists.glenallen.org
Subject: Test message please disregard.
Message-ID: 
User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (LRH 882 2007-12-20)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 64.191.213.14



-- 
-- "Gentleman, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room." -President Muffley
Gary Goldberg KA3ZYW  V:301/249-6501 F:301/390-1955 AIM:OgGreeb
Digital Marketing/Bowie MD/Internet Systems & Networks 

<----- start object 2 ----->
{   '_parsemsg': 0,
     'lang': 'en',
     'listname': 'packleaders-l',
     'pipeline': [   'CalcRecips',
                     'AvoidDuplicates',
                     'Cleanse',
                     'CleanseDKIM',
                     'CookHeaders',
                     'ToDigest',
                     'ToArchive',
                     'ToUsenet',
                     'AfterDelivery',
                     'Acknowledge',
                     'ToOutgoing'],
     'received_time': 1219082263.843436,
     'tolist': 1,
     'version': 3,
     'whichq': '/var/mailman/qfiles/in'}
[----- end pickle file -----]

Thanks. -Gary

-- 
-- "Gentleman, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room." -President Muffley
Gary Goldberg KA3ZYW  V:301/249-6501 F:301/390-1955 AIM:OgGreeb
Digital Marketing/Bowie MD/Internet Systems & Networks 


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Mon Aug 18 20:29:44 2008
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Simon)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:29:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Default new_member_options - no mail?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <48A9BF98.4060107@libertytrek.org>

On 8/18/2008 1:35 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Is there a way to set the default new_member_option to no mail?
>> Apparently you can't from the GUI, but is there a way to do this in
>> mm_cfg.py or somewhere else?

> You'd have to modify the code to do this.

Ok, well, since ianap, I guess I'll just have to remember to set this
whenever I add someone to the list.

Thanks for the confirmation...

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 18 20:33:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:33:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Mailman layout
In-Reply-To: <48A9BA45.3000203@lcwords.com>
Message-ID: 

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

>Mark Sapiro pisze:
>> OTOH, a reference to "some/javascript" is not going to work because 
>>  is not
>> going to serve the javascript; it's going to attempt to serve the
>> listinfo page for the list named "some".
>
>Thank you Mark - do I read it correctly that javascript files won't work
>and the only thing to do is get rid of it and define graphics in the css
>style sheet?


No. That isn't the question I thought I was answering. I was only
saying that references to files on the server which you include in a
template all need to be absolute. This may extend to references within
the included files; I'm not sure about that.


The other point is you have a lot of flexibility when editing
templates, but for pages not generated from templates, e.g. the
listinfo overview page, you have to actually modify Mailman code.
Earlier in this thread, I indicated a simple way to include a style
sheet reference in all such pages. You could also include definitions
of javascript functions in the same way, but actually calling those
functions in the body of the page would require further modifications.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 18 20:53:54 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:53:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages just began to be shunted,
	can't figureout why.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Gary Goldberg wrote:

>My apologies, I forgot to include the dumpdb of the latest message. Here it is:
>
>[root at athena shunt]# /home/digimark/www-mailman/bin/dumpdb 1219082263.843436+005585610ba4a159240f8195f7cc2a955b5c7670.pck
>[----- start pickle file -----]

><----- start object 2 ----->
>{   '_parsemsg': 0,
>     'lang': 'en',
>     'listname': 'packleaders-l',
>     'pipeline': [   'CalcRecips',
>                     'AvoidDuplicates',
>                     'Cleanse',
>                     'CleanseDKIM',
>                     'CookHeaders',
>                     'ToDigest',
>                     'ToArchive',
>                     'ToUsenet',
>                     'AfterDelivery',
>                     'Acknowledge',
>                     'ToOutgoing'],
>     'received_time': 1219082263.843436,
>     'tolist': 1,
>     'version': 3,
>     'whichq': '/var/mailman/qfiles/in'}
>[----- end pickle file -----]


This message was shunted due to an exception in CalcRecips. Please post
the traceback that immediately preceeds the "SHUNTING
1219082263.843436+005585610ba4a159240f8195f7cc2a955b5c7670" message in
Mailman's error log.

Also, do any lists work?

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 18 21:35:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:35:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages just began to be shunted,
	can't figureout why.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Gary Goldberg wrote:

>Thank you for the reply. I do regularly use yum to apply CentOS patches to the
>server, and that could be a source, although after looking at the yum.log, I couldn't say
>which patch might be a source of the problem. Here's the yum log back to the prior
>reboot though...
>

>Aug 17 19:54:23 Installed: python-devel 2.2.3-6.8.i386
>Aug 17 19:54:23 Installed: python-tools 2.2.3-6.8.i386

>
>I uninstalled and reinstalled python yesterday, in case that was a source of
>problems, and I added the python-devel and python-tools just in case (which
>required tcl/tk).


Mailman since 2.1.9 has required Python 2.3.x or newer.

The implementation of Sibling Lists in Mailman 2.1.11 actually uses
Python sets which requires at least Python 2.4.x, but I think if you
don't configure any regular_incluse_lists or regular_exclude_lists,
you are OK with Python 2.3.x.


-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From og at digimark.net  Mon Aug 18 22:07:08 2008
From: og at digimark.net (Gary Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:07:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages just began to be shunted,
 can't figureout why.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

It appears to be affecting all the lists, although they are of such low volume,
that nothing else has been posted since.

I will install the latest version of python and report back, although I
understood from the download/requirements page that python 2.1.x and 2.2.x
would work. But looking at that page again, it says "as of 29-Aug-2006" so it
may very well be out of date.

Here's the error log file entry from the test message, to update the case
data...

----
Aug 18 13:57:44 2008 (14837) Uncaught runner exception: 'module' object has no attribute 'process'
Aug 18 13:57:44 2008 (14837) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'process'

Aug 18 13:57:44 2008 (14837) SHUNTING: 1219082263.843436+005585610ba4a159240f8195f7cc2a955b5c7670
----

I really appreciate your tracking this down. I'll report back asap after the
python upgrade. -Gary

-- 
-- "Gentleman, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room." -President Muffley
Gary Goldberg KA3ZYW  V:301/249-6501 F:301/390-1955 AIM:OgGreeb
Digital Marketing/Bowie MD/Internet Systems & Networks 

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> 
>> Aug 17 19:54:23 Installed: python-devel 2.2.3-6.8.i386
>> Aug 17 19:54:23 Installed: python-tools 2.2.3-6.8.i386
> 

>> I uninstalled and reinstalled python yesterday, in case that was a source of
>> problems, and I added the python-devel and python-tools just in case (which
>> required tcl/tk).


> Mailman since 2.1.9 has required Python 2.3.x or newer.

> The implementation of Sibling Lists in Mailman 2.1.11 actually uses
> Python sets which requires at least Python 2.4.x, but I think if you
> don't configure any regular_incluse_lists or regular_exclude_lists,
> you are OK with Python 2.3.x.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 18 22:49:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:49:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages just began to be shunted,
	can't figureoutwhy.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Gary Goldberg wrote:

>It appears to be affecting all the lists, although they are of such low volume,
>that nothing else has been posted since.
>
>I will install the latest version of python and report back, although I
>understood from the download/requirements page that python 2.1.x and 2.2.x
>would work. But looking at that page again, it says "as of 29-Aug-2006" so it
>may very well be out of date.


Yes, it is out of date and we should update it. The Installation Manual
refers to the wiki at  which is more
current.


>Here's the error log file entry from the test message, to update the case
>data...
>
>----
>Aug 18 13:57:44 2008 (14837) Uncaught runner exception: 'module' object has no attribute 'process'
>Aug 18 13:57:44 2008 (14837) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
>     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>   File "/home/digimark/www-mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
>     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'process'
>
>Aug 18 13:57:44 2008 (14837) SHUNTING: 1219082263.843436+005585610ba4a159240f8195f7cc2a955b5c7670
>----


This error is really strange. Did you by any chance not stop Mailman
before doing the re-install and start it fresh after?

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From og at digimark.net  Mon Aug 18 23:16:57 2008
From: og at digimark.net (Gary Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:16:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages just began to be shunted,
 can't figureoutwhy.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> This error is really strange. Did you by any chance not stop Mailman
> before doing the re-install and start it fresh after?

I uninstalled the distribution python package and installed python 2.5.2 from
the binary distro. No apparent change, but then I stoppepd mailman and
sendmail, reinstalled mailman with a clean compile and restarted it -- it seems
to be working now!

Thank you! -Gary

[og at athena og]$ python -V
Python 2.5.2


From Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au  Tue Aug 19 02:45:04 2008
From: Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au (Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:15:04 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redirecting Mailman URL
Message-ID: 


Hello,

We have an internal Mailman server.  The service is up and running for our
internal clients, but now we need to have it accessible to the world.  We have a
reverse-proxy that will allow us to redirect to port 80 for our internal Mailman
server, but our Security group seems to have a fondness for external hosts with
hostnames that only begin with "www".  Internally, and in the Mailman
configuration, the hostname is just "lists".   If I add a ServerAlias of
"www.lists..." to my Apache configuration, listinfo interprets www.lists in a
different manner and claims there are no lists published for www.lists...

Is there a way I can have "www.lists" get the same results as "lists" either
through mm_cfg.py or the Apache configuration?  Perhaps with add_virtualhost?

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

Alan Rubin
Technician Unix
DCS Midrange Services
Phone: +61 (08) 8999 6814
Fax:      +61 (08) 8999 7493
e-Mail: alan.rubin at nt.gov.au


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 19 03:24:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:24:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redirecting Mailman URL
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:
>
>We have an internal Mailman server.  The service is up and running for our
>internal clients, but now we need to have it accessible to the world.  We have a
>reverse-proxy that will allow us to redirect to port 80 for our internal Mailman
>server, but our Security group seems to have a fondness for external hosts with
>hostnames that only begin with "www".  Internally, and in the Mailman
>configuration, the hostname is just "lists".   If I add a ServerAlias of
>"www.lists..." to my Apache configuration, listinfo interprets www.lists in a
>different manner and claims there are no lists published for www.lists...
>
>Is there a way I can have "www.lists" get the same results as "lists" either
>through mm_cfg.py or the Apache configuration?  Perhaps with add_virtualhost?


Assuming you aren't actually supporting multiple virtual hosts, put

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off

in mm_cfg.py

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 19 04:25:43 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:25:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redirecting Mailman URL
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:

>Thanks, Mark.  That seems to be working.  We don't currently support virtual
>hosts and their lists.  If we did, is there another simple way to make www.lists
>appear the same as just lists?


No. And you'll probably have problems anyway with what you have.

Each list has a hidden 'web_page_url' attribute. See the FAQ at
 for more detail on this.


If VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW is On, the only lists that appear on the
listinfo and admin overview pages are those for which the host name in
web_page_url matches the host name in the URL that invoked the page.
If VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW is Off, all public list appear on the
overview pages regardless of invoking URL.

So setting VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = Off has solved your overview issue,
but web_page_url is used as the initial part of lots of links on
various pages, so if the host in web_page_url is lists..., those links
won't work from the outside where the host needs to be www.lists...

You really need to have one host name which is set as DEFAULT_URL_HOST
and is probably the www.lists... host and which is used for both
internal and external access.

Also see .

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mattes912 at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 19 07:25:15 2008
From: mattes912 at googlemail.com (Matthias Laug)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:25:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No outgoing mails with Postfix when sending mail to
	list
Message-ID: 

Hello everybody,

I'm stuck with a problem. I've installed mailman and postfix via apt (debian
4.0).
If I register a user or a bounce message is sent to the list owner, the
emails go through and are received by the recipient. But if any user sends
an email to the list, it will be archieved but not send to all llist
members.

There seems to be something wrong with the aliases, because if I change
postfix config (main.cf) from

alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
alias_database = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db

to

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases

email are send to list members, but along with an error message 550, that
the adress is not available.

I hope anybody can help me with this problem.
I post my config down below:

*mm_config (mailman)*
*# The name of the list Mailman uses to send password reminders
# and similar. Don't change if you want mailman-owner to be
# a valid local part.
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# If you change these, you have to configure your http server
# accordingly (Alias and ScriptAlias directives in most httpds)
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'
IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'berliner-wingolf.de'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default host for web interface of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'berliner-wingolf.de'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Required when setting any of its arguments.
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The default language for this server.
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Iirc this was used in pre 2.1, leave it for now
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Unset send_reminders on newly created lists
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
# automatically recognizes newly created lists.
# (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.{EXIM,...})
# MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains, but be sure to
# read /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.POSTFIX first.
MTA='Postfix'
POSTFIC_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['berliner-wingolf.de']*





*main.cf (postfic)*
*# Debian specific:  Specifying a file name will cause the first
# line of that file to be used as the name.  The Debian default
# is /etc/mailname.
#myorigin = /etc/mailname

smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Debian/GNU)
biff = no

# appending .domain is the MUA's job.
append_dot_mydomain = no

# Uncomment the next line to generate "delayed mail" warnings
#delay_warning_time = 4h

# TLS parameters
smtpd_tls_cert_file=/etc/ssl/certs/ssl-cert-snakeoil.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file=/etc/ssl/private/ssl-cert-snakeoil.key
smtpd_use_tls=yes
smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${queue_directory}/smtpd_scache
smtp_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${queue_directory}/smtp_scache

# See /usr/share/doc/postfix/TLS_README.gz in the postfix-doc package for
# information on enabling SSL in the smtp client.

myhostname = berliner-wingolf.de
alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
alias_database = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db
#alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases
#alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases

myorigin = /etc/mailname
mydestination = berliner-wingolf.de, vs157059.vserver.de,
localhost.vserver.de
relayhost =
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8
mailbox_size_limit = 0
recipient_delimiter = +
inet_interfaces = all
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
owner_request_special = no

*

From wjonhind at gmail.com  Tue Aug 19 07:52:01 2008
From: wjonhind at gmail.com (Jon Hind)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 06:52:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: 

-- 
Jon


-- 
Jon

From cri at linux.it  Tue Aug 19 11:12:56 2008
From: cri at linux.it (Cristian Rigamonti)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:12:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Manually bouncing messages to a mailman list
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20080813195142.GB3626@pegasus>
	
Message-ID: <20080819091256.GE4128@pegasus>

On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 10:41:29AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> It turns out I was mistaken. I can't duplicate the problem. I only
> thought I could because the test list I was using had
> generic_nonmember_action set to Discard. When I set that to Hold, the
> mutt bounced message is held as expected.

Sorry folks, I finally tracked down a mis-configuration on my side.

A spam filter rule contained the (hungry) regexp

  X-Spam-Status:.*YES

instead of the more reasonable

  X-Spam-Status: YES

The messages I tried to bounce had this header:

  X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE...

which (blame BAYES :-) matches the regexp, so the message got discarded.

Cri

-- 
GPG/PGP Key-Id 0x943A5F0E      -    http://www.linux.it/~cri/cri.asc
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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 19 17:20:41 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:20:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No outgoing mails with Postfix when sending
	mail tolist
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Matthias Laug wrote:
>
>I'm stuck with a problem. I've installed mailman and postfix via apt (debian
>4.0).
>If I register a user or a bounce message is sent to the list owner, the
>emails go through and are received by the recipient. But if any user sends
>an email to the list, it will be archieved but not send to all llist
>members.
>
>There seems to be something wrong with the aliases, because if I change
>postfix config (main.cf) from
>
>alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>alias_database = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db
>
>to
>
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases
>alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
>
>email are send to list members, but along with an error message 550, that
>the adress is not available.


Your aliases are fine. In the second case, Postfix does not know hoy to
teliver to the list so it returns the mail to you only with the 550
status.

When you have Postfix correctly configured as in the first case, the
aliases work. If they didn't, the message wouldn't be archived. See
 for the probable reason why you don't
receive your own posts.

If you have really verified that you don't receive posts sent by other
list members and/or other list members don't receive posts sent by
you, see .

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From wally at booyaka.com  Tue Aug 19 22:42:00 2008
From: wally at booyaka.com (Wallace Winfrey)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:42:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stopping a message post in progress?
Message-ID: <48AB3018.8000702@booyaka.com>

Hello

We're running a list with about 1100+ subscribers, and this list is also 
integrated with some web forum software (FudForum, specifically).

Every once in a while, a spammer or someone else will post something 
inappropriate to the forum. Often times we will catch this post right 
away, before mailman has been able to send the post out to all our 
subscribers.

How might I prevent the post from going out to the rest of list? Is 
there any way to do this? Note, I'm not asking about emergency 
moderation, just how to stop a post in the progress of being sent out.

TIA,

w

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 19 23:05:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:05:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stopping a message post in progress?
In-Reply-To: <48AB3018.8000702@booyaka.com>
Message-ID: 

Wallace Winfrey wrote:
>
>Every once in a while, a spammer or someone else will post something 
>inappropriate to the forum. Often times we will catch this post right 
>away, before mailman has been able to send the post out to all our 
>subscribers.


How do you catch this? If you've received the post from the list, it is
very likely that by the time you are able to react, Mailman will have
completed its delivery to the MTA.


>How might I prevent the post from going out to the rest of list? Is 
>there any way to do this? Note, I'm not asking about emergency 
>moderation, just how to stop a post in the progress of being sent out.


Stop your MTA.
Stop Mailman.
There may or may not be queued messages in the MTA. Examine them all
and delete the ones you don't want delivered.
Start the MTA.
The message may or may not be queued in Mailman. Examine the entries
(.pck files) in Mailman's in/, out/ and retry/ queues with
bin/show_qfiles. If you find any entries containing the unwanted
message, remove them.
Start Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From z.szalbot at lcwords.com  Tue Aug 19 23:11:27 2008
From: z.szalbot at lcwords.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:11:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stopping a message post in progress?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <48AB36FF.2010908@lcwords.com>

Hello,

Mark Sapiro pisze:
> How do you catch this? If you've received the post from the list, it is
> very likely that by the time you are able to react, Mailman will have
> completed its delivery to the MTA.

Yes, Mark is right. This reminds me about China Olympics where the tv 
broadcast is said to have delays of about 20 seconds.

Maybe, this is an option for the future - custom defned delays per list 
(delays between a message is received by Mailman and passed on to MTA)?

I can hardly imagine this is useful unless someone watches over a list 
all the time or the delay is really big (like 8 hours or so)? But with 
too big a delay, poster is likely to resubmit... :)

Thansk!

ZS

From wally at booyaka.com  Tue Aug 19 23:11:40 2008
From: wally at booyaka.com (Wallace Winfrey)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:11:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stopping a message post in progress?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <48AB370C.9060805@booyaka.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> How do you catch this? If you've received the post from the list, it is
> very likely that by the time you are able to react, Mailman will have
> completed its delivery to the MTA.

We'll see it posted to the forum, which, when a user posts, will pipe 
the message to mailman, along with an Approved: header. I find that 
there's usually at least 2-3 minutes between the time that a post 
occurs, and we see mailman start to deliver it in the maillog.

> Stop your MTA.
> Stop Mailman.
> There may or may not be queued messages in the MTA. Examine them all
> and delete the ones you don't want delivered.
> Start the MTA.
> The message may or may not be queued in Mailman. Examine the entries
> (.pck files) in Mailman's in/, out/ and retry/ queues with
> bin/show_qfiles. If you find any entries containing the unwanted
> message, remove them.
> Start Mailman.

Great (and, in retrospect, obvious) advice. Thanks for spelling it out 
for me though. Hopefully this thread will prove useful to someone in a 
similar situation Googling for a solution :-)

cheers

w


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 19 23:34:02 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:34:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] several questions.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <48AB3C4A.9010903@msapiro.net>

Copying the list.

James - Dunn Deal PR wrote:
>> See the FAQ article at  for
>> suggestions on setting up a "one-way" list. Post using an Approved:
>> header as discussed in that FAQ to avoid having authorized posts
>> held.
> 
> 
> I'm checking the http://wiki.list.org/x/3YA9 link you sent me. First
> of all, how do I find out if I'm running MailMan 2.0 or 2.1?


At the bottom of pages like
 you will see "version 2.1.9"


> Regarding "3.11. How do I create a newsletter/announcement/one-way
> list?":
> 
> - Will people be able to reply to an email I send with this function?
> I would like them to be able to, but only to be able to reply to the
> sender himself.


If you set the list settings first_strip_reply_to to No and
reply_goes_to_list to Poster, then an ordinary reply will go to the
original sender of the message.

There's no way you can control how the user addresses the reply, but if
the list members are moderated, you can control what happens when they
attempt to post to the list.


>is there a way to set this list up where I can just
> subscribe them as usual, instead of them having to visit a site and
> subscribe themselves and deal with confirmation emails and all that?


The list admin can always add members to the list. The problem is when
they complain to their ISP that you're spamming them, and their ISP
starts blocking your ISP and your ISP comes to you and says "why are you
spamming people?", you want evidence that the complainer actually wanted
to be on your list. Thus you want to keep the email or other document
that they sent you where they asked to be on the list. It's safer to
always 'invite' people to join the list. At least that way you can say
you only sent an invitation, they accepted it and there is a log entry
that says they were added by email confirmation.


>> It is not clear to me from the above where the post was received.
>> If it was received by the gmail address and not by the local server
>>  addresses, it's possible there's some issue relating to that, but
>> did these addresses receive their list welcome or other mail from
>> Mailman? If so, then Mailman can send to them and that isn't the
>> problem.
> 
>> The address that sent the post will not receive it if 'not metoo'
>> is checked in the admin Membership List. Also, addresses which have
>>  'digest' checked will only receive digests, not messages (for an 
>> announcement type list, you probably want Digest options ->
>> digestable set to No).
> 
> 
> I'm sorry if my language was a little confusing. The gmail account is
> the only email that DID receive the test message. The two that are
> housed on the same server as my MailMan did not. Just a minute ago, I
> deleted all the test email addresses from the databases to see if I
> would receive unsubscribe messages. As usual, only the gmail received
> one. Then I tried re-adding them, along with two other email
> addresses I have (one hotmail, one yahoo) to see who would receive
> subscribe emails. Well, out of the five emails total, only the
> hotmail, the yahoo and the gmail accounts have received subscribe
> emails. And although the gmail account did receive a subscribe email,
> it is not even listed in the list of members on the admin page. The
> only emails that appear are the new ones - the hotmail and yahoo
> accounts - while the ones that were initially entered, deleted and
> re-added are nowhere to be seen. Is it the case that once an email is
> unsubscribed, it cannot be re-subscribed?


See . You will need to look at Mailman's
logs (bounce, smtp and smtp-failure) and possibly the MTA logs to see
what's happening to this mail.

It appears that your MTA is unable to deliver mail from Mailman to local
users. The MTA's logs would probably be the best place to start looking
to find out why.

No. There is nothing that prevents an unsubscribed address from being
resubscribed. How are you subscribing these addresses. If via the Mass
Subscription page, it reports what it did.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 20 03:25:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:25:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Demo import of
	bugs/patches/rfes to Launchpad
In-Reply-To: <3E4C749D-20C0-4C26-B4E2-64275A22921D@list.org>
References: <3E4C749D-20C0-4C26-B4E2-64275A22921D@list.org>
Message-ID: <48AB72A3.8060201@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> I'm happy to announce a demo import from SourceForge's bug tracker,
> patches tracker, and feature request tracker into Launchpad, and I
> invite you to play with the new issue tracker so that we can decide
> whether or not to complete this step of project hosting migration.
> 
> The url is 
> 

> I don't have a timeframe for converting, or deciding to convert.  Much
> depends on your feedback (and especially Mark's) and the readiness of
> the LP administrators to do the production import.  I think if we like
> it, we could make the switch fairly quickly.


I've played with it a little bit, and I think it will be fine. One of
the obvious advantages is the tighter integration with bazaar (I guess
any would be tighter than what we have :)

I think it's fine to convert. I wonder if it is possible in the
conversion to map SF users to LP users where there is a correspondence,
e.g. instead of mapping SF msapiro to LP Msapiro-users, map to LP Mark
Sapiro. Or if there is a way after the fact to say Msapiro-users is me.

- --
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au  Wed Aug 20 04:30:50 2008
From: Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au (Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:00:50 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Digest formatting
Message-ID: 


Hello,

Is there any way to remove/re-arrange the "header" that is printed with every
digest?

Send Change_Notification mailing list submissions to
             list at list.example.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
             http://list.example.com/mailman/listinfo/list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
             list-request at list.example.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
             list-owner at list.example.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of List digest..."

...

We're using digests for announcements and we'd rather not send all that
information to the recipients, at least at the beginning of the message.  We
wouldn't want them to miss the meat of the message.

We'd like to get the message started with "Today's Topics".

Regards,

Alan Rubin
Technician Unix
DCS Midrange Services
Phone: +61 (08) 8999 6814
Fax:      +61 (08) 8999 7493
e-Mail: alan.rubin at nt.gov.au


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 20 16:48:16 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:48:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Digest formatting
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:
>
>Is there any way to remove/re-arrange the "header" that is printed with every
>digest?
>
>Send Change_Notification mailing list submissions to
>             list at list.example.com
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>             http://list.example.com/mailman/listinfo/list
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>             list-request at list.example.com
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
>             list-owner at list.example.com
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of List digest..."
>
>...
>
>We're using digests for announcements and we'd rather not send all that
>information to the recipients, at least at the beginning of the message.  We
>wouldn't want them to miss the meat of the message.
>
>We'd like to get the message started with "Today's Topics".


The information you quote above is built from the masthead.txt
template. See .

If you make an empty version of that template for your list, that part
of the digest will be empty. For the plain digest, there will be no
manifest. For the MIME digest, there will still be a MIME part for the
manifest, but it will be empty.

Actually rearranging the parts so the manifest comes after "Today's
Topics" would require changes to the send_i18n_digests() function
definition in Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py. The manifest would still
have to come before the first message to maintain RFC 1153 compliance
of the plain digest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Pedro.Rodriguez at emea.europa.eu  Wed Aug 20 18:32:55 2008
From: Pedro.Rodriguez at emea.europa.eu (Rodriguez Gomez Pedro)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:32:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejection notice substitution variables
	(member_moderation_notice)
Message-ID: <11A1D03F1F75E948928492261D39ED1E027F6950@ws172>

Hi there!,

I'm using Mailman 2.1.11 and in the context of defining the rejection
notice for moderated members (member_moderation_notice) am trying to use
substitution variables like:

%(real_name)s 
%(web_page_url)s
%(cgiext)s
%(_internal_name)s

or even if possible at all in that context :

%(user_optionsurl)s

As far as I see this is not an option now. Not being shy of modifying
the code, can anybody point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Pedro Rodriguez Gomez


________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all known viruses by EMEA.
________________________________________________________________________

From MHeer at lbl.gov  Wed Aug 20 19:03:25 2008
From: MHeer at lbl.gov (Mark Heer)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:03:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving is broken
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I just noticed that archivin is no longer working on any list. last archive message was received last Aug 12 and I can's seem to find a reason for it.  I am using external archiver as can be seen in the mmcfg.py fiile and it worked just fine for about a month. (we just started using mailman)
 
I don't know all the info you might need but I'll include the mmcfg.py and whatever els I can think of.. Your help is greatly appreciated..   

I only get the following error for a few lists but in each case the ownership is mailman:mailman
I noted an error re: ownership problems - but mailman user and group do indeed own the dirs/files so that message is confusing : 
sr/local/mailman/archives/public/wan-data-transfers'
Aug 20 09:31:06 2008 (27219) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 133, in _dispose
    mlist.Save()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 568, in Save
    self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 236, in CheckHTMLArchiveDir
    breaklink(pubdir)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 56, in breaklink
    os.unlink(link)
OSError: [Errno 1] Not owner: '/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/wan-data-transfers'

Aug 20 09:31:06 2008 (27219) SHUNTING: 1219249865.3392961+47525c120442e9f4bd836c09cd41c46b6feb351e



mmcfg.py:

###############################################
# Here's where we get the distributed defaults.

from Defaults import *

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/postfix/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/postfix/sbin/postmap'
ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2
PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'ssh -e none -i $HOME/.ssh/archkey mailman at nim.nersc.gov %(listname)s'
PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'ssh  -e none -i $HOME/.ssh/archkey mailman at nim.nersc.gov %(listname)s'
SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 3
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost('mailman.nersc.gov','nersc.gov')
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'nersc.gov'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'mailman.nersc.gov'


From MHeer at lbl.gov  Thu Aug 21 01:14:03 2008
From: MHeer at lbl.gov (Mark Heer)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:14:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] more details on broken archiving...
Message-ID: 

I should mention that I already ran check_perms -f and the trouble remains

It appears that the archiver is not honoring the mmcfg entry:
PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'ssh -e none -i $HOME/.ssh/archkey mailman at nim.nersc.gov %(listname)s'

is there a way to manually test this routine.  The last thing done before archiver stopped working was to change a list archive from monthly to yearly - then I re-created the archive with arch --wipe.  All the old stuff is there but nothing new.

The shunting messages still appear in the log after the check_perms was run. I sent to a test list which is configured fror public archive.  It gets delivered to the members, not shunted aand not in the archives, and no error messages.

Thanks,

Mark

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 21 03:03:41 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:03:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejection notice substitution
	variables(member_moderation_notice)
In-Reply-To: <11A1D03F1F75E948928492261D39ED1E027F6950@ws172>
Message-ID: 

Rodriguez Gomez Pedro wrote:
>
>I'm using Mailman 2.1.11 and in the context of defining the rejection
>notice for moderated members (member_moderation_notice) am trying to use
>substitution variables like:
>
>%(real_name)s 
>%(web_page_url)s
>%(cgiext)s
>%(_internal_name)s
>
>or even if possible at all in that context :
>
>%(user_optionsurl)s
>
>As far as I see this is not an option now. Not being shy of modifying
>the code, can anybody point me in the right direction?


You are correct that it is not currently an option because no variable
interpolation whatsoever is done on member_moderation_notice.

If you want to implement it, look at the process() function in
Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py. You will see the following:

            elif mlist.member_moderation_action == 1:
                # Reject
                text = mlist.member_moderation_notice
                if text:
                    text = Utils.wrap(text)
                else:
                    # Use the default RejectMessage notice string
                    text = None
                raise Errors.RejectMessage, text

You can modify this to add interpolation by doing something like

            elif mlist.member_moderation_action == 1:
                # Reject
                text = mlist.member_moderation_notice
                if text:
                    text = Utils.wrap(text)
                    d = {'real_name': mlist.real_name,
                         'web_page_url': mlist.web_page_url,
                         'cgiext': mm_cfg.CGIEXT,
                         '_internal_name': mlist.internal_name(),
                         'options_url': mlist.GetOptionsURL(sender,
absolute=True),
                         }
                    text = text % d
                else:
                    # Use the default RejectMessage notice string
                    text = None
                raise Errors.RejectMessage, text

Note at least one (options_url) of the above lines is wrapped by my MUA
and shouldn't be wrapped.

You can look at modules like Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py for examples
of how this is done elsewhere.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 21 06:08:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:08:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving is broken
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark Heer wrote:
>
>I only get the following error for a few lists but in each case the ownership is mailman:mailman
>I noted an error re: ownership problems - but mailman user and group do indeed own the dirs/files so that message is confusing : 
>sr/local/mailman/archives/public/wan-data-transfers'
>Aug 20 09:31:06 2008 (27219) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 133, in _dispose
>    mlist.Save()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 568, in Save
>    self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 236, in CheckHTMLArchiveDir
>    breaklink(pubdir)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 56, in breaklink
>    os.unlink(link)
>OSError: [Errno 1] Not owner: '/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/wan-data-transfers'
>
>Aug 20 09:31:06 2008 (27219) SHUNTING: 1219249865.3392961+47525c120442e9f4bd836c09cd41c46b6feb351e


It appears that at some point, the archive of this list
(wan-data-transfers) was changed from public to private and now
mailman is trying to remove the symlink from
/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/wan-data-transfers to
/usr/local/mailman/archives/prvate/wan-data-transfers. It is being
denied by the OS when it tries to do this.

This may be a permissions issue not checked by check_perms or it may be
a SELinux or other security policy manager issue or it may be that
IncomingRunner was not started properly (i.e. by 'mailmanctl start'
run by root) and is not running as the correct user:group.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 21 06:35:02 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:35:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] more details on broken archiving...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark Heer wrote:
>
>It appears that the archiver is not honoring the mmcfg entry:
>PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'ssh -e none -i $HOME/.ssh/archkey mailman at nim.nersc.gov %(listname)s'
>
>is there a way to manually test this routine.

What do you expect it to do. What it says is login via ssh using the
specified key as user mailman to host nim.nersc.gov and pipe the
message to be archived to the command whose name is the name of the
list. Is that what you want?

You can test it with

su mailman -c 'ssh -e none -i $HOME/.ssh/archkey mailman at nim.nersc.gov
list_name < file/containing/an/email/message'

This assumes that ArchRunner which will actually be running this
command is running as user mailman as it should be.


>The last thing done before archiver stopped working was to change a list archive from monthly to yearly - then I re-created the archive with arch --wipe.  All the old stuff is there but nothing new.


bin/arch only works with the pipermail archive, not with external
archivers. If you rebuild a pipermail archive with bin/arch --wipe, it
will be built with all the messages currently in the archive mbox
file, but new messages will not be added to the pipermail archive
because you have an external archiver.

If you have an external archiver, the pipermail HTML archive will not
be written. It's an either/or choice. Either pipermail or external.


>The shunting messages still appear in the log after the check_perms was run.


See my reply to your prior post.


>I sent to a test list which is configured fror public archive.  It gets delivered to the members, not shunted aand not in the archives, and no error messages.


Not in which archive. Not in the pipermail archive is expected because
you have a specified PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER. Not in the external
archive is an issue for your external archiver.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Pedro.Rodriguez at emea.europa.eu  Thu Aug 21 14:25:36 2008
From: Pedro.Rodriguez at emea.europa.eu (Rodriguez Gomez Pedro)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:25:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejection notice substitution
	variables(member_moderation_notice)
Message-ID: <11A1D03F1F75E948928492261D39ED1E027F696E@ws172>

Thanks Mark, it works like a charm!

I was puzzled with what you said about the wrapped lines, but when
testing I saw what you probably meant (one "TypeError: float argument
required" in the logs); I fixed it by adding "text =
Utils.to_percent(text)"...so that:

            elif mlist.member_moderation_action == 1:
                # Reject
                text = mlist.member_moderation_notice
                if text:
                    text = Utils.wrap(text)
                    d = {'real_name': mlist.real_name,
                         'web_page_url': mlist.web_page_url,
                         'cgiext': mm_cfg.CGIEXT,
                         '_internal_name': mlist.internal_name(),
                         'options_url': mlist.GetOptionsURL(sender,
absolute=True),
                         }
                    text = text % d
                    text = Utils.to_percent(text)
                else:
                    # Use the default RejectMessage notice string
                    text = None
                raise Errors.RejectMessage, text

Possibly you had a better solution in mind for that particular issue,
this one though seems to work.

Best Regards,

Pedro

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: 21 August 2008 02:04
To: Rodriguez Gomez Pedro; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Rejection notice substitution
variables(member_moderation_notice)

Rodriguez Gomez Pedro wrote:
>
>I'm using Mailman 2.1.11 and in the context of defining the rejection 
>notice for moderated members (member_moderation_notice) am trying to 
>use substitution variables like:
>
>%(real_name)s
>%(web_page_url)s
>%(cgiext)s
>%(_internal_name)s
>
>or even if possible at all in that context :
>
>%(user_optionsurl)s
>
>As far as I see this is not an option now. Not being shy of modifying 
>the code, can anybody point me in the right direction?


You are correct that it is not currently an option because no variable
interpolation whatsoever is done on member_moderation_notice.

If you want to implement it, look at the process() function in
Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py. You will see the following:

            elif mlist.member_moderation_action == 1:
                # Reject
                text = mlist.member_moderation_notice
                if text:
                    text = Utils.wrap(text)
                else:
                    # Use the default RejectMessage notice string
                    text = None
                raise Errors.RejectMessage, text

You can modify this to add interpolation by doing something like

            elif mlist.member_moderation_action == 1:
                # Reject
                text = mlist.member_moderation_notice
                if text:
                    text = Utils.wrap(text)
                    d = {'real_name': mlist.real_name,
                         'web_page_url': mlist.web_page_url,
                         'cgiext': mm_cfg.CGIEXT,
                         '_internal_name': mlist.internal_name(),
                         'options_url': mlist.GetOptionsURL(sender,
absolute=True),
                         }
                    text = text % d
                else:
                    # Use the default RejectMessage notice string
                    text = None
                raise Errors.RejectMessage, text

Note at least one (options_url) of the above lines is wrapped by my MUA
and shouldn't be wrapped.

You can look at modules like Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py for examples
of how this is done elsewhere.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all known viruses by EMEA.
________________________________________________________________________

From david at vizion2000.net  Thu Aug 21 15:10:06 2008
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:10:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members with names
Message-ID: <200808210610.07050.david@vizion2000.net>

Hi

1. I have a file in the following format

"member name in quotes"  email_address at domain.tld

and want to be able to add members using data from this file. add_members 
 add_members -r /absolute/path/to/file listname
reports
 Bad/Invalid email address: "member name in quotes"  email_address at domain.tld

Are any alternative scripts available to provide  the flexibility needed?

I really need to use predefined member names.

2. As an additional query is there a way of automatically making new members 
subject to moderation and automatically turning off moderation after a 
predetermined number of postings from that member have been approved? 




From david at vizion2000.net  Thu Aug 21 16:51:51 2008
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:51:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members with names
In-Reply-To: 
References: <200808210610.07050.david@vizion2000.net>
	
Message-ID: <200808210751.51474.david@vizion2000.net>

On Thursday 21 August 2008 06:21:22 Don Hone wrote:
> --On Thursday, August 21, 2008 6:10 AM -0700 David Southwell
>
>  wrote:
> > 1. I have a file in the following format
> >
> > "member name in quotes"  email_address at domain.tld
> >
> > and want to be able to add members using data from this file. add_members
> >  add_members -r /absolute/path/to/file listname
> > reports
> >  Bad/Invalid email address: "member name in quotes"
> > email_address at domain.tld
> >
> > Are any alternative scripts available to provide  the flexibility needed?
>
> This works for me:
>
> "member name in quotes"  
>
> Don Hone
> 
> Ohio University

Works for me too 
Message-ID: 

David Southwell wrote:
>
>1. I have a file in the following format
>
>"member name in quotes"  email_address at domain.tld
>
>and want to be able to add members using data from this file. add_members 
> add_members -r /absolute/path/to/file listname
>reports
> Bad/Invalid email address: "member name in quotes"  email_address at domain.tld


The addresses need to be in the format

"member name in quotes"  

See  for other formats. The quotes around
the name above are only required if the name contains non alphanumeric
characters. I.e.

John Doe 

is OK, but

"Jane Q. Doe" 

needs to be quoted.


>2. As an additional query is there a way of automatically making new members 
>subject to moderation and automatically turning off moderation after a 
>predetermined number of postings from that member have been approved? 


You do the former by setting Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
default_member_moderation to Yes.

There is no automatic (after n posts) way to clear the mod flag, but
when the moderator goes to the admindb page to approve a post from a
moderated member, there is a checkbox that the moderator can use to
clear the mod flag of the member whose post is being approved.	

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 21 16:51:29 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:51:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejection notice substitution
	variables(member_moderation_notice)
In-Reply-To: <11A1D03F1F75E948928492261D39ED1E027F696E@ws172>
Message-ID: 

Rodriguez Gomez Pedro wrote:

>Thanks Mark, it works like a charm!
>
>I was puzzled with what you said about the wrapped lines, but when
>testing I saw what you probably meant (one "TypeError: float argument
>required" in the logs); I fixed it by adding "text =
>Utils.to_percent(text)"...so that:
>
>            elif mlist.member_moderation_action == 1:
>                # Reject
>                text = mlist.member_moderation_notice
>                if text:
>                    text = Utils.wrap(text)
>                    d = {'real_name': mlist.real_name,
>                         'web_page_url': mlist.web_page_url,
>                         'cgiext': mm_cfg.CGIEXT,
>                         '_internal_name': mlist.internal_name(),
>                         'options_url': mlist.GetOptionsURL(sender,
>absolute=True),


The line above is what I meant by 'wrapped lines'. I intended it to be

   'options_url': mlist.GetOptionsURL(sender, absolute=True),

but indented  as the others, but since it's inside {} and further the
unintended new line is inside (), it doesn't matter because of
Python's implied continuation.


>                         }
>                    text = text % d
>                    text = Utils.to_percent(text)


I have no idea why the above would fix anything in this context. I
would have to see the traceback from the TypeError to know what's
going on with that, but Utils.to_percent probably doesn't have
anything to do with fixing it.

There is one problem in my original. The

                    text = Utils.wrap(text)

should come after

                    text = text % d

not before so the text is wrapped after the values are interpolated.


>                else:
>                    # Use the default RejectMessage notice string
>                    text = None
>                raise Errors.RejectMessage, text
>
>Possibly you had a better solution in mind for that particular issue,
>this one though seems to work.


What is the traceback from that error?

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Pedro.Rodriguez at emea.europa.eu  Thu Aug 21 17:17:29 2008
From: Pedro.Rodriguez at emea.europa.eu (Rodriguez Gomez Pedro)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:17:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejection notice substitution
	variables(member_moderation_notice)
Message-ID: <11A1D03F1F75E948928492261D39ED1E027F6975@ws172>

I'm afraid that even the new version ("Utils.wrap" after "text % d") has
the same problem...I think the "post processing" that goes after the
code in Moderate.py finds the percentage in "%40" (corresponding to the
url encoding of "@" in the email address part of options_url) and it
fails...

Utils.to_percent(text) transforms:

http://list-test.example.com/mailman/options/test2/member%40example.com

to

http://list-test.example.com/mailman/options/test2/member%%40example.com

allowing the "post processing" to finish without problems.

The traceback:

Aug 21 16:10:27 2008 (30631) Uncaught runner exception: float argument
required
Aug 21 16:10:27 2008 (30631) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/u01/app/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/u01/app/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/u01/app/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/u01/app/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 168, in
_dopipeline
    mlist.BounceMessage(msg, msgdata, e)
  File "/u01/app/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 296, in BounceMessage
    notice = _(e.notice())
  File "/u01/app/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 90, in _
    return tns % dict
TypeError: float argument required

Aug 21 16:10:27 2008 (30631) SHUNTING:
1219331427.083775+4689301c9a60d888b46d47dfb14ee4a7be2c436e

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all known viruses by EMEA.
________________________________________________________________________

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 21 17:46:45 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:46:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejection notice substitution
	variables(member_moderation_notice)
In-Reply-To: <11A1D03F1F75E948928492261D39ED1E027F6975@ws172>
Message-ID: 

Rodriguez Gomez Pedro wrote:

>I'm afraid that even the new version ("Utils.wrap" after "text % d") has
>the same problem



Moving "Utils.wrap" after "text % d" wasn't intended to fix the
TypeError exception. It was intended to make the message look prettier
by wrapping the text to width after interpolation rather than before


>...I think the "post processing" that goes after the
>code in Moderate.py finds the percentage in "%40" (corresponding to the
>url encoding of "@" in the email address part of options_url) and it
>fails...


Yes, I see that now.


>Utils.to_percent(text) transforms:
>
>http://list-test.example.com/mailman/options/test2/member%40example.com
>
>to
>
>http://list-test.example.com/mailman/options/test2/member%%40example.com
>
>allowing the "post processing" to finish without problems.


Yes, but it is also overkill and possibly has other inintended side
effects or would have if the reject message contained any '$'
characters.

I think a better solution is to change

 'options_url': mlist.GetOptionsURL(sender, absolute=True),

to

                         'options_url': mlist.GetOptionsURL(sender,
                                                  obscure=True,
                                                  absolute=True),

This will return the URL in the form

http://list-test.example.com/mailman/options/test2/member--at--example.com

which will still work as the options URL and will avoid the '%40'
problem.


>The traceback:
>
>Aug 21 16:10:27 2008 (30631) Uncaught runner exception: float argument
>required
>Aug 21 16:10:27 2008 (30631) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/u01/app/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/u01/app/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/u01/app/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
>_dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/u01/app/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 168, in
>_dopipeline
>    mlist.BounceMessage(msg, msgdata, e)
>  File "/u01/app/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 296, in BounceMessage
>    notice = _(e.notice())
>  File "/u01/app/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 90, in _
>    return tns % dict
>TypeError: float argument required
>
>Aug 21 16:10:27 2008 (30631) SHUNTING:
>1219331427.083775+4689301c9a60d888b46d47dfb14ee4a7be2c436e

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Pedro.Rodriguez at emea.europa.eu  Thu Aug 21 17:59:21 2008
From: Pedro.Rodriguez at emea.europa.eu (Rodriguez Gomez Pedro)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:59:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejection notice substitution
	variables(member_moderation_notice)
Message-ID: <11A1D03F1F75E948928492261D39ED1E027F697B@ws172>

>                         'options_url': mlist.GetOptionsURL(sender,
                                                  obscure=True,
                                                  absolute=True),

It does the job, thanks again.

Best Regards,

Pedro

________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________

From cj.keist at colostate.edu  Thu Aug 21 18:40:10 2008
From: cj.keist at colostate.edu (CJ Keist)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:40:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.11 install problem
Message-ID: <48AD9A6A.2070005@colostate.edu>

Hello,
    I'm upgrading from mailman 2.1.8 to 2.1.11.  Running into a install 
problem, here is what I'm doing:

./configure --prefix=/userM/mail-services/mailman2 
--with-python=/opt/csw/bin/python --with-cgi-gid=15

make

I'm using gcc 3.4.3 on solaris 10 sparc platform

This is the error I'm getting when I do make install

unable to execute cc: No such file or directory
error: command 'cc' failed with exit status 1
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
Current working directory /space/src/mailman-2.1.11/misc
*** Error code 1
The following command caused the error:
for d in bin cron misc Mailman scripts src templates messages tests; \
do \
    (cd $d; make DESTDIR= install); \
done
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'

Had something similar when installing 2.1.8 and back then I just renamed 
/usr/ucb/cc to /usr/ucb/cc.otw

But now it looks like it wants cc for some reason???

-- 
C. J. Keist                     Email: cj.keist at colostate.edu
UNIX/Network Manager            Phone: 970-491-0630
Engineering Network Services    Fax:   970-491-5569
College of Engineering, CSU
Ft. Collins, CO 80523-1301

All I want is a chance to prove 'Money can't buy happiness'


From cj.keist at colostate.edu  Thu Aug 21 18:47:00 2008
From: cj.keist at colostate.edu (CJ Keist)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:47:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.11 install problem
Message-ID: <48AD9C04.7040503@colostate.edu>

One more thing,
    I just tried to link cc to gcc but then get the following when I try 
to install:

cc: language arch=v8 not recognized
cc: src/_japanese_codecs.c: linker input file unused because linking not 
done
cc: build/temp.solaris-2.10-sun4v-2.5/src/_japanese_codecs.o: No such 
file or directory
error: command 'cc' failed with exit status 1
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
Current working directory /space/src/mailman-2.1.11/misc
*** Error code 1
The following command caused the error:
for d in bin cron misc Mailman scripts src templates messages tests; \
do \
     (cd $d; make DESTDIR= install); \
done
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'


---------------------------

Hello,
    I'm upgrading from mailman 2.1.8 to 2.1.11.  Running into a install
problem, here is what I'm doing:

./configure --prefix=/userM/mail-services/mailman2
--with-python=/opt/csw/bin/python --with-cgi-gid=15

make

I'm using gcc 3.4.3 on solaris 10 sparc platform

This is the error I'm getting when I do make install

unable to execute cc: No such file or directory
error: command 'cc' failed with exit status 1
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
Current working directory /space/src/mailman-2.1.11/misc
*** Error code 1
The following command caused the error:
for d in bin cron misc Mailman scripts src templates messages tests; \
do \
    (cd $d; make DESTDIR= install); \
done
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'

Had something similar when installing 2.1.8 and back then I just renamed
/usr/ucb/cc to /usr/ucb/cc.otw

But now it looks like it wants cc for some reason???

-- 
C. J. Keist                     Email: cj.keist at colostate.edu
UNIX/Network Manager            Phone: 970-491-0630
Engineering Network Services    Fax:   970-491-5569
College of Engineering, CSU
Ft. Collins, CO 80523-1301

All I want is a chance to prove 'Money can't buy happiness'



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 21 19:29:05 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:29:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.11 install problem
In-Reply-To: <48AD9C04.7040503@colostate.edu>
Message-ID: 

CJ Keist wrote:

>One more thing,
>    I just tried to link cc to gcc but then get the following when I try 
>to install:
>
>cc: language arch=v8 not recognized
>cc: src/_japanese_codecs.c: linker input file unused because linking not 
>done
>cc: build/temp.solaris-2.10-sun4v-2.5/src/_japanese_codecs.o: No such 
>file or directory
>error: command 'cc' failed with exit status 1
>*** Error code 1
>make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
>Current working directory /space/src/mailman-2.1.11/misc
>*** Error code 1
>The following command caused the error:
>for d in bin cron misc Mailman scripts src templates messages tests; \
>do \
>     (cd $d; make DESTDIR= install); \
>done
>make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'


That's a twist. Usually it's the Korean codecs that cause a problem,
but see

for some info on the solaris install.

Also, there's lots more in the archives. you can try sifting through

or refining that search.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cj.keist at colostate.edu  Thu Aug 21 19:57:55 2008
From: cj.keist at colostate.edu (CJ Keist)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:57:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.11 install problem
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <48ADACA3.2070904@colostate.edu>

Mark,
    Thank you.  I did find the following messages:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg43260.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg43262.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg35645.html

But nothing is working, they seem to make sure your env path is set 
right. This is what I have set:

/usr/ccs/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/usr/local/bin:/opt/csw/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin

I don't have access to Sun Studio compiler so that option is out for 
me.  I'm using python from blastwave.org version 2.5.1


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> CJ Keist wrote:
>
>   
>> One more thing,
>>    I just tried to link cc to gcc but then get the following when I try 
>> to install:
>>
>> cc: language arch=v8 not recognized
>> cc: src/_japanese_codecs.c: linker input file unused because linking not 
>> done
>> cc: build/temp.solaris-2.10-sun4v-2.5/src/_japanese_codecs.o: No such 
>> file or directory
>> error: command 'cc' failed with exit status 1
>> *** Error code 1
>> make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
>> Current working directory /space/src/mailman-2.1.11/misc
>> *** Error code 1
>> The following command caused the error:
>> for d in bin cron misc Mailman scripts src templates messages tests; \
>> do \
>>     (cd $d; make DESTDIR= install); \
>> done
>> make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'
>>     
>
>
> That's a twist. Usually it's the Korean codecs that cause a problem,
> but see
> 
> for some info on the solaris install.
>
> Also, there's lots more in the archives. you can try sifting through
> 
> or refining that search.
>
>   

-- 
C. J. Keist                     Email: cj.keist at colostate.edu
UNIX/Network Manager            Phone: 970-491-0630
Engineering Network Services    Fax:   970-491-5569
College of Engineering, CSU
Ft. Collins, CO 80523-1301

All I want is a chance to prove 'Money can't buy happiness'


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 21 20:07:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:07:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving is broken
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <48ADAEC5.2020006@msapiro.net>

Mark Heer wrote:
> 
> The bigger issue is the complete lack of archiving.   even public 
> lists which used to archive just fine are not doing anything.  You 
> may recall that you provided the syntax for the external 
> prvate/public archive entry I placed in the mmcfg.py file.  It worked
>  perfeclty for over a month and simply stopped workin 8/12.  Can you 
> offer some debug advice or some way of unwedging the archive routine?
>  I feel really stuck.  I have been archiving to our old hypermail 
> setup until I can unravel this problem. As I mentioned, the only 
> change on 8/12 was to change 1 list to yearly vs monthly after which 
> I recreated the archive from a flat file (mm mbos with hypermail flat
>  file catted to the end). could this be a factor?


And in another message


> Sorry, I should clarify our installation -  we have 2 mail servers
> handling the mail exchanges and 1 server handling the admin functions
> all are running mailman.  When the mail servers send to the external
> archive they send to our admin mailman server which accepts the piped
> mail and runs the /bin/arch script populating the pipermail archive.
> The key on the admin machine receives the piped mail and does the
> right thing - all until lat week.  I ran the /bin/arch to re-create
> the archive as a yearly archive on the receiving side or - admin
> machine, not on the mail exchangers.

It's possible that your rebuilding of the archive caused permissions
issues if you didn't run bin/arch as the mailman user. Since this is all
you did, it seems worth investigating.

As far as debugging the 'external' archiving from the mail machines to
the admin machine is concerned, did you try running the command manually
as I suggested in a prior reply.

If the external archiver fails, there should be a "external archiver
non-zero exit status: %d" message in Mailman's error log on the mail
machine, but more likely, the ssh command succeeds and the failure is in
the script on the admin machine which at best you might see as output if
you run the ssh by hand.

If your script on the admin machine is like the one at
,
you could try changing

  bin/arch $1 $f

or whatever similar command you have to something like

  bin/arch $1 $f >>/path/to/log/file 2>>/path/to/log/error

to see what the command is actually doing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cj.keist at colostate.edu  Thu Aug 21 20:13:04 2008
From: cj.keist at colostate.edu (CJ Keist)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:13:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.11 install problem
In-Reply-To: <48ADACA3.2070904@colostate.edu>
References: 
	<48ADACA3.2070904@colostate.edu>
Message-ID: <48ADB030.4080304@colostate.edu>

Just solved it!!  When we were installing a separate piece of software, 
namely Teralis Helpdesk package, we were forced to upgrade all packages 
from blastwave.org.  This upgraded  python to 2.5.1 which I guess is not 
supported with mailman yet?  Anyway I found that there is a older 
version of python, 2.3.3 in /usr/sfw/bin.  So set that in in my 
configure line:

./configure --prefix=/userM/mail-services/mailman2 
--with-python=/usr/sfw/bin/python --with-cgi-gid=15

make
make install
went through!!!!


CJ Keist wrote:
> Mark,
>    Thank you.  I did find the following messages:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg43260.html
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg43262.html
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg35645.html
>
> But nothing is working, they seem to make sure your env path is set 
> right. This is what I have set:
>
> /usr/ccs/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/usr/local/bin:/opt/csw/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin
>
> I don't have access to Sun Studio compiler so that option is out for 
> me.  I'm using python from blastwave.org version 2.5.1
>
>
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> CJ Keist wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> One more thing,
>>>    I just tried to link cc to gcc but then get the following when I 
>>> try to install:
>>>
>>> cc: language arch=v8 not recognized
>>> cc: src/_japanese_codecs.c: linker input file unused because linking 
>>> not done
>>> cc: build/temp.solaris-2.10-sun4v-2.5/src/_japanese_codecs.o: No 
>>> such file or directory
>>> error: command 'cc' failed with exit status 1
>>> *** Error code 1
>>> make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
>>> Current working directory /space/src/mailman-2.1.11/misc
>>> *** Error code 1
>>> The following command caused the error:
>>> for d in bin cron misc Mailman scripts src templates messages tests; \
>>> do \
>>>     (cd $d; make DESTDIR= install); \
>>> done
>>> make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'
>>>     
>>
>>
>> That's a twist. Usually it's the Korean codecs that cause a problem,
>> but see
>> 
>> for some info on the solaris install.
>>
>> Also, there's lots more in the archives. you can try sifting through
>>  
>>
>> or refining that search.
>>
>>   
>

-- 
C. J. Keist                     Email: cj.keist at colostate.edu
UNIX/Network Manager            Phone: 970-491-0630
Engineering Network Services    Fax:   970-491-5569
College of Engineering, CSU
Ft. Collins, CO 80523-1301

All I want is a chance to prove 'Money can't buy happiness'


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 21 20:32:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:32:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.11 install problem
In-Reply-To: <48ADB030.4080304@colostate.edu>
Message-ID: 

CJ Keist wrote:

>Just solved it!!  When we were installing a separate piece of software, 
>namely Teralis Helpdesk package, we were forced to upgrade all packages 
>from blastwave.org.  This upgraded  python to 2.5.1 which I guess is not 
>supported with mailman yet?  Anyway I found that there is a older 
>version of python, 2.3.3 in /usr/sfw/bin.  So set that in in my 
>configure line:
>
>./configure --prefix=/userM/mail-services/mailman2 
>--with-python=/usr/sfw/bin/python --with-cgi-gid=15
>
>make
>make install
>went through!!!!


I'm not a solaris guy so I don't know what the nuanced differences
between the two Python installs might be that allows the codecs to be
compiled with one and not the other, but in general, Mailman 2.1.11
should work fine with Python 2.5.1.

Also, if you are going to use the new sibling lists feature -
regular_{include|exclude}_lists, it requires at least Python 2.4
because it uses Python sets. See  and
.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From MHeer at lbl.gov  Fri Aug 22 01:15:29 2008
From: MHeer at lbl.gov (Mark Heer)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:15:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing the subject line when rejected
Message-ID: 

Hello,

When a message is rejected it keeps the same subject line as what was sent.  If the user dows not read the message saying the post was rejected, the user assumes it went out to the list.  How do I change a rejected email subject to what I see in the
  ListAdmin.py

        # add in original message, but not wrap/filled
            if origmsg:
                text = NL.join(
                    [text,
                     '---------- ' + _('Original Message') + ' ----------',
                     str(origmsg)
                     ])
            subject = _('Request to mailing list %(realname)s rejected')



I expected that the above would be the subject of a rejected notice but it is not.

Thank you,

Mark

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 22 01:51:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:51:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing the subject line when rejected
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark Heer wrote:
>
>When a message is rejected it keeps the same subject line as what was sent.  If the user dows not read the message saying the post was rejected, the user assumes it went out to the list.  How do I change a rejected email subject to what I see in the
>  ListAdmin.py
>
>        # add in original message, but not wrap/filled
>            if origmsg:
>                text = NL.join(
>                    [text,
>                     '---------- ' + _('Original Message') + ' ----------',
>                     str(origmsg)
>                     ])
>            subject = _('Request to mailing list %(realname)s rejected')
>
>
>
>I expected that the above would be the subject of a rejected notice but it is not.


What you quote above is from the __refuse() method which is only used
internally within ListAdmin to process moderator rejections of posts
and (un)subscribes.

Messages which are rejected by a Handler because of things like a match
in reject_these_nonmembers or member_moderation_action or
generic_nonmember_action set to refuse are processed by the
BounceMessage() method in Mailman/Bouncer.py and as you've observed,
it sets the subject of the notice to the subject of the rejected
message.

If you want, you can replace

        subject = msg.get('subject', _('(no subject)'))

in the definition of BounceMessage() with the two lines

        realname = self.real_name
        subject = _('Request to mailing list %(realname)s rejected')


-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 22 23:13:57 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:13:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Truncated aliases file
In-Reply-To: <48978DDA.7030008@uen.org>
Message-ID: 

Andy Cravens wrote:

>We are running mailman 2.1.9 on Solaris 10.  This afternoon we had a 
>strange problem that we have never seen before.  The mailman aliases 
>file located at /opt/mailman/data/aliases was somehow truncated and 
>contained only a dozen of our 173 lists.  Almost all of our list traffic 
>was rejected with "User unknown in local recipient table" as a result. 
>The problem was easily remedied by running the genaliases script.
>
>I can find no reason for this one-time occurrence (I hope it was a 
>one-time occurrence).  I have checked the server and found no hardware 
>or system errors.  I have checked all the mailman logs and have found 
>nothing that correlates to the date/time of when the problem started.


Sorry for not replying sooner. This got buried :(

I assume this is Postfix, right? So the implication is that not only
was /opt/mailman/data/aliases truncated, but that the aliases were
also missing from /opt/mailman/data/aliases.db which further implies
that it's more than a few sectors mysteriously disappearing from a
file, since the aliases would have to disappear from
/opt/mailman/data/aliases and then postalias or equivalent be run.

Mailman could do this. If someone manually edited
/opt/mailman/data/aliases and in so doing removed or altered the

 # STANZA END: somelist

line but not the corresponding

 # STANZA START: somelist

line. Then if someone (perhaps years) later (if genaliases wasn't run
in between) deletes the somelist list, Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py will
delete all the aliases from somelist through the end of the file.

I think this is too dangerous. I'll fix it for 2.2 so it won't delete
past the next STANZA START no matter what.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Sun Aug 24 03:40:20 2008
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:40:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve all waiting request for add-in as member
Message-ID: 

Hello, folks

Is there a command to approve all waiting requests for add-in as  
member? Since it is the beginning of school year, parents begin to  
signup for mailing list. I understand there is the submit & confirm  
option so the parents can auto subscribe themselves.

Thanks,




From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug 24 05:42:41 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 20:42:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve all waiting request for add-in as member
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Hung Phan wrote:
>
>Is there a command to approve all waiting requests for add-in as  
>member?


Not per se, but you could do it with a withlist script such as

------------------------------------------------------
"""Approve all pending subscriptions.

Save as bin/approve_all_subs.py

Run via

   bin/withlist -r approve_all_subs listname

or

   bin/withlist -a -r approve_all_subs

to do all lists.
"""

from Mailman import mm_cfg

def approve_all_subs(mlist):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    ids = mlist.GetSubscriptionIds()
    for id in ids:
        mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.SUBSCRIBE)
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()
------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From techmgr at case.org.au  Sun Aug 24 08:45:56 2008
From: techmgr at case.org.au (Darrell Burkey)
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:45:56 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing accidental resubscription
Message-ID: <48B103A4.4090507@case.org.au>

I've had a client ask me how they can keep track of who unsubscribes 
from their lists so that they don't accidentally resubscribe the same 
address at some later point.

Seems like just keeping a list of addresses of the unsubscribe notices 
that come in would be reasonable but they made the point that they would 
  have to go through all the bounce notices as well to indentify 
addresses that were unsubscribed due to excessive bounces as well.

I've done a fair amount of searching around and haven't seen the topic 
raised although it seems likely that it would have been.

Unless anyone has any better advice I'm consider writinging a hack to 
copy unsubscribe addresses to a file that can be checked before 
subscribing someone.

How do others handle this?

Thanks in advance from downunder.

From bill.heath at mail.callsunshine.com  Sun Aug 24 14:08:36 2008
From: bill.heath at mail.callsunshine.com (Bill Heath)
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 08:08:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing accidental resubscription
In-Reply-To: <48B103A4.4090507@case.org.au>
References: <48B103A4.4090507@case.org.au>
Message-ID: 

For most of our lists, we don't do mass subscribes so the only time we
manually do anything is with uncaught bounce messages, which of course
we remove manually if it is a true bounce and not just a malformed out
of office message.

Now for our announce only lists, were we do quite a bit of mass
subscriptions, I allow mailman to handle the bounce processing where it
will and don't worry about it.  I know that there are costs in doing
this, but I believe it is cheaper and easier than having to manually
deal with the situation.  If mailman can't handle the bounce, then I
manually remove the address and keep the address in a text file that
will be used later.  If a user does a simple unsubscribe, or sends an
email to the list-owner, then we will add those addresses to the bounce
file as well.  After we perform any mass subscribe from whatever the
data source, we always do a mass unsubscribe using our text file.  This
removes all the known bounce issues that mailman can't handle and the
people who have told us they don't want our email.

It is not a clean process and it takes a bit of time after each major
mailing, but it works for us and keeps our complaints to a minimum.

Bill Heath
Technical Operations Manager
Sunshine State One Call of Florida, Inc.
11 Plantation Road
DeBary, FL  32713
Phone: (386) 575-2003
Fax: (386) 575-2033
Email:  mailto:bill.heath at mail.callsunshine.com

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+bill.heath=mail.callsunshine.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+bill.heath=mail.callsunshine.com at python.or
g] On Behalf Of Darrell Burkey
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 2:46 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing accidental resubscription

I've had a client ask me how they can keep track of who unsubscribes 
from their lists so that they don't accidentally resubscribe the same 
address at some later point.

Seems like just keeping a list of addresses of the unsubscribe notices 
that come in would be reasonable but they made the point that they would

  have to go through all the bounce notices as well to indentify 
addresses that were unsubscribed due to excessive bounces as well.

I've done a fair amount of searching around and haven't seen the topic 
raised although it seems likely that it would have been.

Unless anyone has any better advice I'm consider writinging a hack to 
copy unsubscribe addresses to a file that can be checked before 
subscribing someone.

How do others handle this?

Thanks in advance from downunder.
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bill.heath%40mail.c
allsunshine.com

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9



From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug 24 18:14:54 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 09:14:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing accidental resubscription
In-Reply-To: <48B103A4.4090507@case.org.au>
Message-ID: 

Darrell Burkey wrote:

>I've had a client ask me how they can keep track of who unsubscribes 
>from their lists so that they don't accidentally resubscribe the same 
>address at some later point.


If it were my client, I would tell them that I don't support spammers
and that before adding anyone to their list, they should have a
current request from the person to be on the list, and even then maybe
just send an invitation.

In other words, when the user complains to her ISP that she's getting
spam from the list, and the ISP blocks my server as the source of the
spam, I want to be able to prove to the ISP that the user asked to be
on the list.


>Unless anyone has any better advice I'm consider writinging a hack to 
>copy unsubscribe addresses to a file that can be checked before 
>subscribing someone.


The information is all in Mailman's subscribe log. It should be pretty
easy to maintain a list of "opt outs" from that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Sun Aug 24 21:37:31 2008
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 14:37:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing accidental resubscription
In-Reply-To: <48B103A4.4090507@case.org.au>
References: <48B103A4.4090507@case.org.au>
Message-ID: <02DD73BB-E843-42D7-88A1-55889BCE8F3B@goldmark.org>

On Aug 24, 2008, at 1:45 AM, Darrell Burkey wrote:

> I've had a client ask me how they can keep track of who unsubscribes  
> from their lists so that they don't accidentally resubscribe the  
> same address at some later point.

If they are properly confirming subscriptions, then there really  
shouldn't be any "accidental" re-subscriptions.  So this makes me  
suspicious about what your clients are up to.

> Unless anyone has any better advice I'm consider writinging a hack  
> to copy unsubscribe addresses to a file that can be checked before  
> subscribing someone.

When someone unsubscribes from a list, they may not want you to keep  
their email address at all.  I would recommend that you keep a hash of  
each unsubscribed email address instead of the email address itself.   
Of course that won't catch matches between, say,

              jeffrey at goldmark.org
and
              Jeffrey at goldmark.org

Those may or may not be "the same address".  You can safely lowercase  
the domain part of the email address, but I'm not sure what to do when  
creating the hash for addresses with uppercase in the local-part.

Cheers,

-j




-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From techmgr at case.org.au  Mon Aug 25 00:42:49 2008
From: techmgr at case.org.au (Darrell Burkey)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 08:42:49 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing accidental resubscription
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <48B1E3E9.7060503@case.org.au>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
 > If it were my client, I would tell them that I don't support spammers
 > and that before adding anyone to their list, they should have a
 > current request from the person to be on the list, and even then maybe
 > just send an invitation.

What interesting responses. Spammers really have made us a paranoid 
bunch haven't they? There's no need to assume my clients are spamming or 
to be 'suspicious' about what they are doing. Indeed, it's a good 
opportunity to learn from new users and get their perspective on things.

This is a community group who are doing their best to develop procedures 
to ensure they respect unsubscribe requests from their members, who for 
whatever reason may decide to unsubscribe after having been a 
subscriber, by not accidentally resubscribing their address later on. 
Simply an administrative issue that I'm checking to see how other users 
address.

Here in Australia we have spam legislation and privacy requirements that 
actually have some teeth. We do take those subjects quite seriously.

I work with a non-profit  running a service specifically for community 
groups to obtain mailing lists. But non-profit groups have their 
challenges that can make dealing with such things interesting. They do 
very valuable work and therefore we do whatever we can to support them.

See http://www.communitylists.org.au if interested.

Cheers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Darrell Burkey, President
Computing Assistance Support & Education Inc
http://www.case.org.au


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 25 01:47:54 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:47:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing accidental resubscription
In-Reply-To: <48B1E3E9.7060503@case.org.au>
Message-ID: 

Darrell Burkey wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > If it were my client, I would tell them that I don't support spammers
> > and that before adding anyone to their list, they should have a
> > current request from the person to be on the list, and even then maybe
> > just send an invitation.
>
>What interesting responses. Spammers really have made us a paranoid 
>bunch haven't they? There's no need to assume my clients are spamming or 
>to be 'suspicious' about what they are doing. Indeed, it's a good 
>opportunity to learn from new users and get their perspective on things.


I'm sorry I wasn't more diplomatic in my reply above.  I'm sure your
clients are honorable and well intentioned. I'm sure that they have
the same problems that all of us have with users who claim they want
to be on a list but just can't seem to manage a simple email
confirmation, and I'm sure they have the same problems we all have
with the aol, hotmail, yahoo, googlemail, etc. users who have asked to
be on the list and then click the 'spam' or 'junk' button on list mail.

But, my point is if they are adding people to a list without a specific
current request in some form from the user to be on the list, then by
some definitions at least they are spamming that user, and if they do
have a specific current request from the user, why do they need to be
concerned that the user previously unsubscribed for whatever reason?

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dbgsystems at gmail.com  Mon Aug 25 04:46:10 2008
From: dbgsystems at gmail.com (Darragh Gammell)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:46:10 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails stuck in qfiles folder
Message-ID: 

Hi

I have lots of mails stuck in my qfiles/out folder.
How do I resend these?

Thanks

Darragh

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 25 06:15:16 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:15:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails stuck in qfiles folder
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Darragh Gammell wrote:
>
>I have lots of mails stuck in my qfiles/out folder.
>How do I resend these?


Is OutgoingRunner running? If not, check Mailman's error and qrunner
logs for information as to why it died. If you can't figure out why,
post the log details and any other information and we'll help.

You need to figure out what the problem is, fix it and then probably
stop and start Mailman.

If OutgoingRunner is running, check Mailman's smtp log to see if it has
really stopped processing its queue or if the queue is just backlogged
(indicated by continuous smtp log entries at time intervals equal to
their processing time.)

If the processing times are long, searcf the FAQ
 for "performance".

Also see .

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dbgsystems2 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 25 07:38:19 2008
From: dbgsystems2 at gmail.com (Darragh Gammell)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:38:19 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails stuck in qfiles folder
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Hi Mark

Thanks for your response, I was under the impression there was a command
similar to the unshunt command but I was mistaken.

For those who read this thread in the future: A simple restart of mailmanctl
does not clear this queue. I had to kill the process and start it back up to
kick the outgoing manager into action.

Regards

Darragh


On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 2:15 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> Darragh Gammell wrote:
> >
> >I have lots of mails stuck in my qfiles/out folder.
> >How do I resend these?
>
>
> Is OutgoingRunner running? If not, check Mailman's error and qrunner
> logs for information as to why it died. If you can't figure out why,
> post the log details and any other information and we'll help.
>
> You need to figure out what the problem is, fix it and then probably
> stop and start Mailman.
>
> If OutgoingRunner is running, check Mailman's smtp log to see if it has
> really stopped processing its queue or if the queue is just backlogged
> (indicated by continuous smtp log entries at time intervals equal to
> their processing time.)
>
> If the processing times are long, searcf the FAQ
>  for "performance".
>
> Also see .
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dbgsystems2%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>

From kmcarthu at bates.edu  Mon Aug 25 20:21:37 2008
From: kmcarthu at bates.edu (Karen R McArthur)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:21:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin web access
Message-ID: <48B2F831.1010708@bates.edu>

I have applied the "site_hide_list_options.patch" in order to limit 
owner access to the list configurations via the web interface - however, 
a side effect of this is that our mailman admin cannot access those 
options either.  (true, I can export the config, modify the text file 
and re-apply the config to the list, but that is very labor intensive...)

How can I limit the list owners - yet still allow the mailman admin 
access to ALL the options via the web?

-- 
Karen R. McArthur 
Systems Administrator
Information and Library Services, Bates College
Lewiston, Maine 04240 USA
ph:(207)786-8236   fax:(207)786-6057

If you find that everybody else is right and you're wrong,
it might just be that you're thinking outside the box. The
world is yet to catch up.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 25 22:44:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:44:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin web access
In-Reply-To: <48B2F831.1010708@bates.edu>
Message-ID: 

Karen R McArthur wrote:

>I have applied the "site_hide_list_options.patch" in order to limit 
>owner access to the list configurations via the web interface - however, 
>a side effect of this is that our mailman admin cannot access those 
>options either.  (true, I can export the config, modify the text file 
>and re-apply the config to the list, but that is very labor intensive...)


You could just run bin/config_list with an input file consisting of
only the setting(s) for the attribute(s) you want to change.


>How can I limit the list owners - yet still allow the mailman admin 
>access to ALL the options via the web?


Assuming you mean the patch at
,
you could try the following modification to the MailList.py part of
the patch. Warning! - untested. The modification is the addition of
two lines immediately following

                 if value:


Index: trunk/Mailman/MailList.py
===================================================================

--- trunk/Mailman/MailList.py	(revision 16)
+++ trunk/Mailman/MailList.py	(working copy)
@@ -426,6 +426,20 @@
             if hasattr(gui, 'GetConfigInfo'):
                 value = gui.GetConfigInfo(self, category, subcat)
                 if value:
+                    if self.CheckCookie(mm_cfg.AuthSiteAdmin):
+                        return value
+                    title = None
+                    for item in value[1:]:
+                        if not isinstance(item, TupleType):
+                            if title is not None:
+                                value.remove(title)
+                            title = item
+                        if not isinstance(item, TupleType) or
len(item) < 5:
+                            continue
+                        if item[0] in mm_cfg.SITE_HIDE_LIST_OPTIONS:
+                            value.remove(item)
+                        else:
+                            title = None
                     return value
 

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Tue Aug 26 11:18:20 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (Bill Christensen)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 04:18:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface down
Message-ID: 

Hey folks,

I'm having trouble with the web interface again.   I added a couple 
new lists today and stopped/started both fetchmail and mailman to 
make sure they would pick up the new addresses.  It appears that my 
lists are still running and the pipermail archives are still working, 
but I can't get in to the admin via the web on any lists, including 
the new ones.  I'm getting the "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9" screen. 
Everything was good until I stopped/started.

I'm running Apache2.  NOT SELinux.

I've done permission fixes.

I've looked for corrupt config files using:

echo > noop.py "def noop(mlist): return"
./withlist -a -r noop

(all showed "unlocked")

I've checked the logs.  No sign of anything specific there.

I can't find the cause.


-- 
Bill Christensen


Green Building Professionals Directory: 
Sustainable Building Calendar: 
Green Real Estate: 
Straw Bale Registry: 
Books/videos/software: 

From barry at list.org  Tue Aug 26 11:21:46 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 05:21:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Demo import of
	bugs/patches/rfes to Launchpad
In-Reply-To: <48AB72A3.8060201@msapiro.net>
References: <3E4C749D-20C0-4C26-B4E2-64275A22921D@list.org>
	<48AB72A3.8060201@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <712EED12-8D37-413E-A80B-93F77ADD3718@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Aug 19, 2008, at 9:25 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I've played with it a little bit, and I think it will be fine. One of
> the obvious advantages is the tighter integration with bazaar (I guess
> any would be tighter than what we have :)

:)

> I think it's fine to convert. I wonder if it is possible in the
> conversion to map SF users to LP users where there is a  
> correspondence,
> e.g. instead of mapping SF msapiro to LP Msapiro-users, map to LP Mark
> Sapiro. Or if there is a way after the fact to say Msapiro-users is  
> me.

I'll double check, but I believe the way this is handled is that new  
users are created for each of the SF user names, and we (or the  
individual user) can request that those users be merged into your  
official LP user id.

If there are no objections, I'll chat with the folks doing the import  
and let them know that we're ready to switch over.  We'll schedule a  
flag day and make the announcement before actually switching over.

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAkizyyoACgkQ2YZpQepbvXEnzACfVUh8LIPtbEwAu4VEWp1mmUwC
IqwAn2ORhWyAuNBdVJUBl+ZWaeAyJ9HY
=tGzi
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 26 16:40:47 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:40:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not recognizing some bounces?
Message-ID: <18612.5615.919997.625826@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


I've been working on the SpamBayes filtering on mail.python.org for a couple
weeks.  Now that the training database has matured a bit for the most part
the unsures I see now seem to be bounce messages for a handful of mailing
list subscribers which Mailman doesn't handle automatically.  The most
problematic domains are rediffmail.com, big.or.jp, 163.com, ospaz.ru and
126.com.  The bounce messages from 163.com and 126.com (and I think
big.or.jp) are written in the native character sets (Chinese or Japanese),
so I can understand if Mailman doesn't recognize them.  I'm not sure what
the problem is with the others.

Is this a known issue with Mailman?  Are there workarounds?  We're running
2.1.10.

Thanks,

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
------
ELON MUSK: If fuel cells were good, don't think you'd see them somewhere,
like maybe in a laptop or a cell phone or a $200 million military satellite
maybe?  And yet, where do you see them?
SPENCER MICHELS: You don't.
ELON MUSK: Exactly.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 26 18:17:22 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:17:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not recognizing some bounces?
In-Reply-To: <18612.5615.919997.625826@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: 

skip at pobox.com wrote:
>
>I've been working on the SpamBayes filtering on mail.python.org for a couple
>weeks.  Now that the training database has matured a bit for the most part
>the unsures I see now seem to be bounce messages for a handful of mailing
>list subscribers which Mailman doesn't handle automatically.


I don't understand. Are you talking about the incoming message to
listname-bounces at example.com or the unrecognized bounce notification
from Mailman to the list owner?

If it's the incoming message, Mailman hasn't had a chance to recognize
it yet, and any changes to Mailman's bounce recognition isn't going to
affect what your Bayes filter sees.


>The most
>problematic domains are rediffmail.com, big.or.jp, 163.com, ospaz.ru and
>126.com.  The bounce messages from 163.com and 126.com (and I think
>big.or.jp) are written in the native character sets (Chinese or Japanese),
>so I can understand if Mailman doesn't recognize them.  I'm not sure what
>the problem is with the others.
>
>Is this a known issue with Mailman?  Are there workarounds?  We're running
>2.1.10.


It is a known issue in that

1) Many MTA's do not send RFC 3464 compliant DSNs
2) We do our best to recognize non-compliant DSN's, but humans are
   better at it than is code, so there will always be 'unrecognized'
   bounces.
3) We make no attempt to recognize any language other than English.

If you send me example DSNs from the above domains, I can try to add
recognition for them. I tried mailing to
bogus_address_test_dsn at rediffmail.com,
bogus_address_test_dsn at big.or.jp, bogus_address_test_dsn at 163.com,
bogus_address_test_dsn at ospaz.ru and bogus_address_test_dsn at 126.com to
see if I could get DSN's from these domains, but rediffmail.com,
163.com and 126.com rejected the recipient at SMTP time and the others
accepted the mail and haven't yet returned a DSN.

The best 'workaround' as far as recognizing DSNs in Mailman is
concerned is to enable Mailman's VERP options

VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug 26 20:39:19 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:39:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not recognizing some bounces?
In-Reply-To: <18612.5615.919997.625826@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18612.5615.919997.625826@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <48B44DD7.7040400@shub-internet.org>

skip at pobox.com wrote:

> I've been working on the SpamBayes filtering on mail.python.org for a couple
> weeks.  Now that the training database has matured a bit for the most part
> the unsures I see now seem to be bounce messages for a handful of mailing
> list subscribers which Mailman doesn't handle automatically.  The most
> problematic domains are rediffmail.com, big.or.jp, 163.com, ospaz.ru and
> 126.com.  The bounce messages from 163.com and 126.com (and I think
> big.or.jp) are written in the native character sets (Chinese or Japanese),
> so I can understand if Mailman doesn't recognize them.  I'm not sure what
> the problem is with the others.

That would be a question primarily for Mark Sapiro, Tokio Kikuchi, or Barry 
Warsaw.

> Is this a known issue with Mailman?  Are there workarounds?  We're running
> 2.1.10.

I know there are some bounce formats that Mailman doesn't properly handle, 
because I get them as the primary active listowner for the various mailman-* 
mailing lists on python.org, but I've been so busy that I haven't tried to 
do much of anything with them.

I will be installing 2.1.11 soon.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug 26 20:47:54 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:47:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not recognizing some bounces?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <48B44FDA.9090607@shub-internet.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> The best 'workaround' as far as recognizing DSNs in Mailman is
> concerned is to enable Mailman's VERP options
> 
> VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
> VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
> VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1

The last item here had been set to 10, but I have reduced it to 1 and 
restarted Mailman.

Otherwise, I think we're already doing about as much as we can at the site 
level, it's up to the individual listowners to choose whether or not to do 
personalization/VERP.


Of course, as the primary active listmaster/postmaster/Mailman site admin, I 
can help our listowners implement these features, but I generally try to 
avoid stepping on any toes of any listowners unless I feel I really have no 
other choice.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 26 21:20:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:20:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not recognizing some bounces?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark Sapiro wrote:


>
>If you send me example DSNs from the above domains, I can try to add
>recognition for them. I tried mailing to
>bogus_address_test_dsn at rediffmail.com,
>bogus_address_test_dsn at big.or.jp, bogus_address_test_dsn at 163.com,
>bogus_address_test_dsn at ospaz.ru and bogus_address_test_dsn at 126.com to
>see if I could get DSN's from these domains, but rediffmail.com,
>163.com and 126.com rejected the recipient at SMTP time and the others
>accepted the mail and haven't yet returned a DSN.


Skip replied to me off list with example DSNs from rediffmail.com and
163.com. Both these DSNs were recognized by Mailman 2.1.11 which has
some improvements over 2.1.10 so I'm not sure if they were recognized
in  2.1.10.

However, Skip also wrote:

>I'm referring to the delivery status notification which is sent to, say,
>python-list-bounces+xyz=rediffmail.com at python.org.  I realize that Mailman
>has yet to see it, but I assume it eventually will see it and should disable
>the subscription after N bounces.  One rediffmail.com email address in
>particular has piled up hundreds of bounces without being disabled.


If the bounces are actually being returned to
python-list-bounces+xyz=rediffmail.com at python.org as opposed to
python-list-bounces at python.org, then they are VERPed and they should
be recognized and scored as a bounce for xyz at rediffmail.com regardless
of the content of the DSN.

Check Mailman's bounce log to see if they are being scored.

There is a potential issue. If you have

VERP_PROBES = Yes

in mm_cfg.py and for some reason the VERP probes aren't bouncing or are
not being recognized, the user will never have delivery disabled.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Tue Aug 26 23:49:03 2008
From: mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Meenal Pant)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:49:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete a subscriber
Message-ID: <48B47A4F.4050100@ncsa.uiuc.edu>

Hello all,
I work on the SELS project (http://sels.ncsa.uiuc.edu)

We store the GnuPG keyring of list members in the list folder (ex.
/var/lib/mailman/list/testlist/SELS)

During " delete " a subscriber I want to perform an additional action on
my lists folder , which is delete the keys from the keyring for that
subscriber.

I am trying to figure out all the scripts I need to modify to add this
feature to mailman. Also where is the source code located for
executables generated in ~/mailman/bin ?

I referred to the developers wiki but could not find what I was looking for.

Thanks
Meenal

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 27 00:28:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:28:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete a subscriber
In-Reply-To: <48B47A4F.4050100@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: 

Meenal Pant wrote:
>
>During " delete " a subscriber I want to perform an additional action on
>my lists folder , which is delete the keys from the keyring for that
>subscriber.
>
>I am trying to figure out all the scripts I need to modify to add this
>feature to mailman. Also where is the source code located for
>executables generated in ~/mailman/bin ?


Look at the methods ApprovedDeleteMember() and maybe
ApprovedChangeMemberAddress() defined in Mailman/MailList.py, or if
you want to look at the lower level interface, see the removeMember()
and changeMemberAddress() methods in Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py.


As far as the 'executables' in the bin/ directory are concerned, they
are source. They are executable Python scripts. And the commands in
bin/ mostly call the MailList.py defined methods, but clone_member
(and possibly others) calls the MemberAdaptor (OldStyleMemberships.py)
changeMemberAddress() method.

If you make your changes in the MemberAdaptor (which is
OldStyleMemberships.py unless you have installed some custom
MemberAdaptor for some or all lists) you are guaranteed to have
covered everything because any membership change ultimately calls the
list methods addNewMember(), removeMember() and changeMemberAddress()
defined in the MemberAdaptor to do the actual work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fil at rezo.net  Wed Aug 27 00:29:24 2008
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:29:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete a subscriber
In-Reply-To: <48B47A4F.4050100@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
References: <48B47A4F.4050100@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: 

Hello,

> During " delete " a subscriber I want to perform an additional action on
> my lists folder , which is delete the keys from the keyring for that
> subscriber.

check out the following methods:
Mailman/MemberAdaptor.py:    def removeMember(self, memberkey):
Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py:    def removeMember(self, member):

and also, in the same files:
    def changeMemberAddress(self, member, newaddress, nodelete=0):


-- Fil

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 27 01:14:21 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:14:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface down
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Bill Christensen wrote:
>
>I'm having trouble with the web interface again.   I added a couple 
>new lists today and stopped/started both fetchmail and mailman to 
>make sure they would pick up the new addresses.  It appears that my 
>lists are still running and the pipermail archives are still working, 
>but I can't get in to the admin via the web on any lists, including 
>the new ones.  I'm getting the "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9" screen. 
>Everything was good until I stopped/started.


Stopping and starting Mailman has no effect on the web interface unless
somehow a config.pck got corrupted in the process.

What is in Mailman's error log? Whenever you get the "Bug in Mailman
..." response on the web interface, you have to find the corresponding
error and traceback in Mailman's error log. That may be only the
beginning of diagnosing the problem, but without that, it could be
literally anything.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Aug 27 09:16:16 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:16:16 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Mailman not recognizing some bounces?
In-Reply-To: <18612.5615.919997.625826@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18612.5615.919997.625826@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <87abezgc73.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

skip at pobox.com writes:

 > The most problematic domains are rediffmail.com, big.or.jp,
 > 163.com, ospaz.ru and 126.com.  The bounce messages from 163.com
 > and 126.com (and I think big.or.jp) are written in the native
 > character sets (Chinese or Japanese),

163.com and 126.com are big spam sources which (unfortuantely) also
host a few genuine users.  If you think you're getting genuine
bounces, then one of the core guys will have to help you.  If you
think it's spam-related, feel free to send copies to me (off-list) and
I can probably verify for you.  I suggest gzipped attachments as (for
obvious reasons) I have filters with big teeth for CJK spam.


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 27 11:10:39 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:10:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not recognizing some bounces?
In-Reply-To: <87abezgc73.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <18612.5615.919997.625826@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<87abezgc73.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <18613.6671.415507.746539@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Stephen> skip at pobox.com writes:
    >> The most problematic domains are rediffmail.com, big.or.jp, 163.com,
    >> ospaz.ru and 126.com.  The bounce messages from 163.com and 126.com
    >> (and I think big.or.jp) are written in the native character sets
    >> (Chinese or Japanese),

    Stephen> 163.com and 126.com are big spam sources which (unfortuantely)
    Stephen> also host a few genuine users.

I think these are genuine bounces.  There are a few 126.com and 163.com
addresses subscribed to python-list.  The bounce messages contain actual
python-list mails in the second part of the dsn.

    Stephen> If you think it's spam-related, feel free to send copies to me
    Stephen> (off-list) and I can probably verify for you.

Just in case, I'll send one your way.

Thanks,

Skip

From nitin.bhadauria at tetrain.com  Wed Aug 27 11:33:31 2008
From: nitin.bhadauria at tetrain.com (Nitin Bhadauria)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:03:31 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restrict users posting per day on the list
Message-ID: <48B51F6B.4030909@tetrain.com>

Dear All,

Is it possible that we can restrict  users to post  5 or 10 mails per 
day the rest will stop for moderator approval ..........

plz reply It's urgent................

Thanks
Nitin Bhadauria

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 27 17:46:31 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:46:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restrict users posting per day on the list
In-Reply-To: <48B51F6B.4030909@tetrain.com>
Message-ID: 

Nitin Bhadauria wrote:
>
>Is it possible that we can restrict  users to post  5 or 10 mails per 
>day the rest will stop for moderator approval ..........


Not without making code modifications.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Wed Aug 27 20:16:58 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (Bill Christensen)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:16:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface down
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

At 4:14 PM -0700 8/26/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Bill Christensen wrote:
>>
>>I'm having trouble with the web interface again.   I added a couple
>>new lists today and stopped/started both fetchmail and mailman to
>>make sure they would pick up the new addresses.  It appears that my
>>lists are still running and the pipermail archives are still working,
>>but I can't get in to the admin via the web on any lists, including
>>the new ones.  I'm getting the "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9" screen.
>>Everything was good until I stopped/started.
>
>
>Stopping and starting Mailman has no effect on the web interface unless
>somehow a config.pck got corrupted in the process.
>
>What is in Mailman's error log? Whenever you get the "Bug in Mailman
>..." response on the web interface, you have to find the corresponding
>error and traceback in Mailman's error log. That may be only the
>beginning of diagnosing the problem, but without that, it could be
>literally anything.

Thanks, I got that figured out yesterday.  I went ahead and did an 
update to 2.1.11 and got that and a few other little glitches cleared 
up.





-- 
Bill Christensen


Green Building Professionals Directory: 
Sustainable Building Calendar: 
Green Real Estate: 
Straw Bale Registry: 
Books/videos/software: 

From brad at python.org  Wed Aug 27 22:38:09 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:38:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restrict users posting per day on the list
In-Reply-To: <48B51F6B.4030909@tetrain.com>
References: <48B51F6B.4030909@tetrain.com>
Message-ID: <48B5BB31.5080207@python.org>

Nitin Bhadauria wrote:

> Is it possible that we can restrict  users to post  5 or 10 mails per 
> day the rest will stop for moderator approval ..........
> 
> plz reply It's urgent................

Go to the Mailman FAQ Wiki page at 
 and search for 
"throttle".

-- 
Brad Knowles 
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au  Thu Aug 28 03:16:30 2008
From: Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au (Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:46:30 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest reply-to
Message-ID: 


Hello,

Where can you set an explicit digest reply-to email address?  I have tried the
General Options and the reply-to is always to the list no matter what I change
(even if I set an explicit reply-to address).  If I have a one-way list that
only sends in digest, I don't want people/autoresponders to pick up the list as
the reply-to and fill up the next digest (in the case when an allowed poster is
on holidays and fails to set their out-of-office policy correctly, for example).

Regards,

Alan Rubin
Technician Unix
DCS Midrange Services
Phone: +61 (08) 8999 6814
Fax:      +61 (08) 8999 7493
e-Mail: alan.rubin at nt.gov.au


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 28 04:50:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:50:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest reply-to
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au wrote:
>
>Where can you set an explicit digest reply-to email address?  I have tried the
>General Options and the reply-to is always to the list no matter what I change
>(even if I set an explicit reply-to address).


Those settings only apply to messages. Currently, From: and Reply-To:
for digests are set to the list address in
Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py in the send_i18n_digests() function.


>If I have a one-way list that
>only sends in digest, I don't want people/autoresponders to pick up the list as
>the reply-to and fill up the next digest (in the case when an allowed poster is
>on holidays and fails to set their out-of-office policy correctly, for example).


You're dealing with broken autoresponders if they're responding to to
digests in the first place so you can't predict what they will do with
Reply-To:, however, you could do something like changing

    mimemsg['Reply-To'] = mlist.GetListEmail()

to

    if mlist.reply_to_address:
        mimemsg['Reply-To'] = mlist.reply_to_address
    else:
        mimemsg['Reply-To'] = mlist.GetListEmail()

and similarly a few lines below with rfc1153msg['Reply-To']. This will
honor the list's reply_to_address if there is one.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From oarmas at mpsnet.net.mx  Fri Aug 29 00:24:40 2008
From: oarmas at mpsnet.net.mx (Omar Armas)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:24:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] outlook wrong from header
Message-ID: 

I have an announce list and it works great, except for Outlook and
Hotmail clients, which include in the "From" text displayed to the
client something like:

listname-bounces at domain.name on behalf of memotest at domain.name

instead of the name and email of the original sender.

I searched the list and the headers and I think the problem is the
Sender and/or X-Envelope-From header mailman appends. It seems that
only Outlook and Hotmail display it's value in the From text to the
client.

I also read that mailman people is just honoring the RFC's and
standard's and it seems it's the MUA who doesn't comply.

But you know, user's are user's and don't know anything about it. So,
my question is, how can I avoid this error? Is it possible to
delete/filter these headers in every mail sent by mailman?

Regards,

-- 
Omar

From oarmas at mpsnet.net.mx  Fri Aug 29 00:36:52 2008
From: oarmas at mpsnet.net.mx (Omar Armas)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:36:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] outlook wrong from header
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

I'm sorry, I just discovered FAQ 2.3. "From field displayed by
Microsoft Outlook" and it solved the issue.


-- 
Omar

From brad at python.org  Fri Aug 29 01:50:53 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:50:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] outlook wrong from header
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <48B739DD.4060202@python.org>

Omar Armas wrote:

> listname-bounces at domain.name on behalf of memotest at domain.name

Go to the FAQ (wiki) at 
 and search for 
"behalf".

-- 
Brad Knowles 
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From ckrobin41 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 29 04:33:38 2008
From: ckrobin41 at yahoo.com (Colin Robinson)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:33:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie Question
Message-ID: <347627.84212.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Hey guys, I'm looking to create some kind of online mailing list for my office. I am a self taught it person so my knowledge is some what limited. I am capable of learning some simple programs on my own (FrontPage, web expressions, Photoshop...) but really don't know the hard core stuff. That being said is this program the type of thing I would stand a chance at learning on my own knowing that I know nothing about Python?
?
Thanks,
Colin Robinson
McKimmey Associates, Realtors
501-269-7911


      

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 29 05:19:04 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:19:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie Question
In-Reply-To: <347627.84212.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <347627.84212.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <48B76AA8.5020900@msapiro.net>

Colin Robinson wrote:
> Hey guys, I'm looking to create some kind of online mailing list for
> my office. I am a self taught it person so my knowledge is some what
> limited. I am capable of learning some simple programs on my own
> (FrontPage, web expressions, Photoshop...) but really don't know the
> hard core stuff. That being said is this program the type of thing I
> would stand a chance at learning on my own knowing that I know
> nothing about Python?

In order to install Mailman, you need a computer with both a mail server
and a web server, and your mail server needs to be properly configured
in order for many ISPs to accept your mail (although if it's all intra
office, this may not be an issue). In addition, some experience with
*nix system administration and software installation is probably required.

Unless I misunderstand your skill set and environment, if you need the
kinds of capabilities Mailman provides, you should consider a hosted
service. See .
-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From javiabd at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 29 14:40:23 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:40:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help with html in body of email message
Message-ID: <439622.89723.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com>






if (typeof YAHOO == "undefined") {
 var YAHOO = {};
}
YAHOO.Shortcuts = YAHOO.Shortcuts || {};
YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = false;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.sensitivityType = [];
YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.location = "us";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_id = 0;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_type = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_title = "Help with html embed";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_publish_date = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_author = "comm-director at isns.org";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_url = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_tags = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_language = "english";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.annotationSet = {
"lw_1220013571_0": {
"text": "my yahoo",
"extended": 0,
"startchar": 298,
"endchar": 305,
"start": 298,
"end": 305,
"extendedFrom": "",
"predictedCategory": "",
"predictionProbability": "0",
"weight": 0.486731,
"type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/organization/company/yahoo_property"],
"category": ["ORGANIZATION"],
"wikiId": "Yahoo%21",
"relatedWikiIds": ["AOL", "Google", "Jerry_Yang", "Microsoft", "MySpace", "Time_Warner", "Yahoo%21_360%c2%b0", "Yahoo%21_Finance", "Yahoo%21_Japan", "Yahoo%21_Mail"],
"relatedEntities": ["10news.com", "click2houston.com", "clickondetroit.com", "ksat.com", "newsnet5.com", "thebostonchannel.com", "thehawaiichannel.com", "thepittsburghchannel.com", "wpbf.com", "yahoo"],
"showOnClick": [],
"context": "html file as email attachement and use \u0022html\u0022 in options my yahoo.       The idea was to send the html file for readers",
"metaData": {
"domain_url": "",
"visible": "true",
"yprop_description": "Personalize Yahoo!'s content by collecting your favorite features in one page.",
"yprop_name": "My Yahoo!",
"yprop_url": "http://my.yahoo.com/"
}
 },
"lw_1220013571_1": {
"text": "mailman mailing list",
"extended": 0,
"startchar": 756,
"endchar": 775,
"start": 756,
"end": 775,
"extendedFrom": "",
"predictedCategory": "",
"predictionProbability": "0",
"weight": 0.248341,
"type": ["shortcuts:/concept"],
"category": ["CONCEPT"],
"wikiId": "",
"relatedWikiIds": [],
"relatedEntities": [],
"showOnClick": [],
"context": "Attachment Follows-----           Any help is appreciated, i used this for mailman mailing list in my org and now viewers are being prompted to",
"metaData": {
"visible": "false"
}
 }
};








Hi
?
This was working fine before. 
?
I used to attach html file as email attachement and use "html" in options my yahoo.
?
The idea was to send the html file for readers to see in body of the email not as file.
?
Not sure what changed recently am not able to do that, its goin as file with following for every email
?
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
?
?
Any help is appreciated, i used this for mailman mailing list in my org and now viewers are being prompted to download files rather than showing up in body of message itself.
?
thanks in advance.


      

From javiabd at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 29 14:40:31 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:40:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help with html in body of email message
Message-ID: <148757.93218.qm@web63707.mail.re1.yahoo.com>






if (typeof YAHOO == "undefined") {
 var YAHOO = {};
}
YAHOO.Shortcuts = YAHOO.Shortcuts || {};
YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = false;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.sensitivityType = [];
YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.location = "us";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_id = 0;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_type = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_title = "Help with html embed";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_publish_date = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_author = "comm-director at isns.org";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_url = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_tags = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_language = "english";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.annotationSet = {
"lw_1220013571_0": {
"text": "my yahoo",
"extended": 0,
"startchar": 298,
"endchar": 305,
"start": 298,
"end": 305,
"extendedFrom": "",
"predictedCategory": "",
"predictionProbability": "0",
"weight": 0.486731,
"type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/organization/company/yahoo_property"],
"category": ["ORGANIZATION"],
"wikiId": "Yahoo%21",
"relatedWikiIds": ["AOL", "Google", "Jerry_Yang", "Microsoft", "MySpace", "Time_Warner", "Yahoo%21_360%c2%b0", "Yahoo%21_Finance", "Yahoo%21_Japan", "Yahoo%21_Mail"],
"relatedEntities": ["10news.com", "click2houston.com", "clickondetroit.com", "ksat.com", "newsnet5.com", "thebostonchannel.com", "thehawaiichannel.com", "thepittsburghchannel.com", "wpbf.com", "yahoo"],
"showOnClick": [],
"context": "html file as email attachement and use \u0022html\u0022 in options my yahoo.       The idea was to send the html file for readers",
"metaData": {
"domain_url": "",
"visible": "true",
"yprop_description": "Personalize Yahoo!'s content by collecting your favorite features in one page.",
"yprop_name": "My Yahoo!",
"yprop_url": "http://my.yahoo.com/"
}
 },
"lw_1220013571_1": {
"text": "mailman mailing list",
"extended": 0,
"startchar": 756,
"endchar": 775,
"start": 756,
"end": 775,
"extendedFrom": "",
"predictedCategory": "",
"predictionProbability": "0",
"weight": 0.248341,
"type": ["shortcuts:/concept"],
"category": ["CONCEPT"],
"wikiId": "",
"relatedWikiIds": [],
"relatedEntities": [],
"showOnClick": [],
"context": "Attachment Follows-----           Any help is appreciated, i used this for mailman mailing list in my org and now viewers are being prompted to",
"metaData": {
"visible": "false"
}
 }
};








Hi
?
This was working fine before. 
?
I used to attach html file as email attachement and use "html" in options my yahoo.
?
The idea was to send the html file for readers to see in body of the email not as file.
?
Not sure what changed recently am not able to do that, its goin as file with following for every email
?
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
?
?
Any help is appreciated, i used this for mailman mailing list in my org and now viewers are being prompted to download files rather than showing up in body of message itself.
?
thanks in advance.


      

From javiabd at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 29 14:40:43 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:40:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help with html in body of email message
Message-ID: <820201.16917.qm@web63701.mail.re1.yahoo.com>






if (typeof YAHOO == "undefined") {
 var YAHOO = {};
}
YAHOO.Shortcuts = YAHOO.Shortcuts || {};
YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = false;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.sensitivityType = [];
YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.location = "us";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_id = 0;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_type = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_title = "Help with html embed";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_publish_date = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_author = "comm-director at isns.org";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_url = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_tags = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_language = "english";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.annotationSet = {
"lw_1220013571_0": {
"text": "my yahoo",
"extended": 0,
"startchar": 298,
"endchar": 305,
"start": 298,
"end": 305,
"extendedFrom": "",
"predictedCategory": "",
"predictionProbability": "0",
"weight": 0.486731,
"type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/organization/company/yahoo_property"],
"category": ["ORGANIZATION"],
"wikiId": "Yahoo%21",
"relatedWikiIds": ["AOL", "Google", "Jerry_Yang", "Microsoft", "MySpace", "Time_Warner", "Yahoo%21_360%c2%b0", "Yahoo%21_Finance", "Yahoo%21_Japan", "Yahoo%21_Mail"],
"relatedEntities": ["10news.com", "click2houston.com", "clickondetroit.com", "ksat.com", "newsnet5.com", "thebostonchannel.com", "thehawaiichannel.com", "thepittsburghchannel.com", "wpbf.com", "yahoo"],
"showOnClick": [],
"context": "html file as email attachement and use \u0022html\u0022 in options my yahoo.       The idea was to send the html file for readers",
"metaData": {
"domain_url": "",
"visible": "true",
"yprop_description": "Personalize Yahoo!'s content by collecting your favorite features in one page.",
"yprop_name": "My Yahoo!",
"yprop_url": "http://my.yahoo.com/"
}
 },
"lw_1220013571_1": {
"text": "mailman mailing list",
"extended": 0,
"startchar": 756,
"endchar": 775,
"start": 756,
"end": 775,
"extendedFrom": "",
"predictedCategory": "",
"predictionProbability": "0",
"weight": 0.248341,
"type": ["shortcuts:/concept"],
"category": ["CONCEPT"],
"wikiId": "",
"relatedWikiIds": [],
"relatedEntities": [],
"showOnClick": [],
"context": "Attachment Follows-----           Any help is appreciated, i used this for mailman mailing list in my org and now viewers are being prompted to",
"metaData": {
"visible": "false"
}
 }
};








Hi
?
This was working fine before. 
?
I used to attach html file as email attachement and use "html" in options my yahoo.
?
The idea was to send the html file for readers to see in body of the email not as file.
?
Not sure what changed recently am not able to do that, its goin as file with following for every email
?
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
?
?
Any help is appreciated, i used this for mailman mailing list in my org and now viewers are being prompted to download files rather than showing up in body of message itself.
?
thanks in advance.


      

From javiabd at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 29 14:41:37 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:41:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help with html in body of email message
Message-ID: <3831.16608.qm@web63702.mail.re1.yahoo.com>





Hi
?
This was working fine before. 
?
I used to attach html file as email attachement and use "html" in options my yahoo.
?
The idea was to send the html file for readers to see in body of the email not as file.
?
Not sure what changed recently am not able to do that, its goin as file with following for every email
?
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
?
?
Any help is appreciated, i used this for mailman mailing list in my org and now viewers are being prompted to download files rather than showing up in body of message itself.
?
thanks in advance.


      

From javiabd at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 29 14:43:21 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:43:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help with html in body of email message
Message-ID: <652069.93588.qm@web63706.mail.re1.yahoo.com>



?


if (typeof YAHOO == "undefined") {
 var YAHOO = {};
}
YAHOO.Shortcuts = YAHOO.Shortcuts || {};
YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = false;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.sensitivityType = [];
YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.location = "us";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_id = 0;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_type = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_title = "Help with html embed";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_publish_date = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_author = "comm-director at isns.org";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_url = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_tags = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_language = "english";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.annotationSet = {
"lw_1220013571_0": {
"text": "my yahoo",
"extended": 0,
"startchar": 298,
"endchar": 305,
"start": 298,
"end": 305,
"extendedFrom": "",
"predictedCategory": "",
"predictionProbability": "0",
"weight": 0.486731,
"type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/organization/company/yahoo_property"],
"category": ["ORGANIZATION"],
"wikiId": "Yahoo%21",
"relatedWikiIds": ["AOL", "Google", "Jerry_Yang", "Microsoft", "MySpace", "Time_Warner", "Yahoo%21_360%c2%b0", "Yahoo%21_Finance", "Yahoo%21_Japan", "Yahoo%21_Mail"],
"relatedEntities": ["10news.com", "click2houston.com", "clickondetroit.com", "ksat.com", "newsnet5.com", "thebostonchannel.com", "thehawaiichannel.com", "thepittsburghchannel.com", "wpbf.com", "yahoo"],
"showOnClick": [],
"context": "html file as email attachement and use \u0022html\u0022 in options my yahoo.       The idea was to send the html file for readers",
"metaData": {
"domain_url": "",
"visible": "true",
"yprop_description": "Personalize Yahoo!'s content by collecting your favorite features in one page.",
"yprop_name": "My Yahoo!",
"yprop_url": "http://my.yahoo.com/"
}
 },
"lw_1220013571_1": {
"text": "mailman mailing list",
"extended": 0,
"startchar": 756,
"endchar": 775,
"start": 756,
"end": 775,
"extendedFrom": "",
"predictedCategory": "",
"predictionProbability": "0",
"weight": 0.248341,
"type": ["shortcuts:/concept"],
"category": ["CONCEPT"],
"wikiId": "",
"relatedWikiIds": [],
"relatedEntities": [],
"showOnClick": [],
"context": "Attachment Follows-----           Any help is appreciated, i used this for mailman mailing list in my org and now viewers are being prompted to",
"metaData": {
"visible": "false"
}
 }
};








Hi
?
This was working fine before. 
?
I used to attach html file as email attachement and use "html" in options my yahoo.
?
The idea was to send the html file for readers to see in body of the email not as file.
?
Not sure what changed recently am not able to do that, its goin as file with following for every email
?
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
?
?
Any help is appreciated, i used this for mailman mailing list in my org and now viewers are being prompted to download files rather than showing up in body of message itself.
?
thanks in advance.


      

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 29 16:57:04 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:57:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help with html in body of email message
In-Reply-To: <652069.93588.qm@web63706.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

Abdul Javid wrote:
>?
>This was working fine before. 
>?
>I used to attach html file as email attachement and use "html" in options my yahoo.
>?
>The idea was to send the html file for readers to see in body of the email not as file.
>?
>Not sure what changed recently am not able to do that, its goin as file with following for every email
>?
>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>?
>?
>Any help is appreciated, i used this for mailman mailing list in my org and now viewers are being prompted to download files rather than showing up in body of message itself.
>?
>thanks in advance.


This is a Yahoo question.

This is a Yahoo question.

This is a Yahoo question.

This is a Yahoo question.

This is a Yahoo question.

(saving clutter by answering all five posts with one reply)

Something has changed in the message you are sending, or perhaps the
issue comes about in Mailman because you have added a msg_header and
or msg_footer. In any case there's not much that we could definitively
say without seeing the actual raw message.

In any case, be sure that msg_header an msg_footer on the Non-digest
options page are empty (not just blank, but truly empty) and see if
that helps.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug 29 17:37:04 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:37:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie Question
In-Reply-To: <347627.84212.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <347627.84212.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <48B817A0.7040702@shub-internet.org>

Colin Robinson wrote:

> Hey guys, I'm looking to create some kind of online mailing list for my
> office. I am a self taught it person so my knowledge is some what
> limited. I am capable of learning some simple programs on my own
> (FrontPage, web expressions, Photoshop...) but really don't know the hard
> core stuff. That being said is this program the type of thing I would
> stand a chance at learning on my own knowing that I know nothing about
> Python?

You don't need to know how to program in order to use Mailman, regardless of 
what languages you may or may not know.  If you want to make changes to the 
way that Mailman works, you may need to know how to program in Python (or be 
able to learn).

However, Barry Warsaw, Mark Sapiro, and Tokio Kikuchi (among many others) 
have worked very hard to make Mailman a very full-featured program in this 
space, so we would hope that there would be no need for most people to learn 
to program in Python.


But if you want to learn how to program in Python, you could certainly 
choose to take Mailman as a project on which to start learning.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From brad at python.org  Fri Aug 29 17:42:14 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:42:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help with html in body of email message
In-Reply-To: <439622.89723.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <439622.89723.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <48B818D6.70108@python.org>

Abdul Javid wrote:

> if (typeof YAHOO == "undefined") {
>  var YAHOO = {};
> }

This user has been set to moderated status.  When they learn how to avoid 
submitting multiple copies of the same message to the mailing list, they can 
try to convince me that I should clear their moderation bit.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From dslater at ocln.org  Fri Aug 29 18:14:22 2008
From: dslater at ocln.org (David Slater)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:14:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit list subscribers by domain
Message-ID: <10c7da641c4db60e86f0b56c03e33f91.squirrel@mailhost.ocln.org>


Hello -

I want to deny list subscriptions to any user whose email
address does not include my domain.

I realize that I can do that by having the list admin approve
subscription requests, but I'd prefer to automate the process.

I would hope that a rejection notice would be sent to any person
who subscribes and does not have the correct email domain.

Does anyone know how to do this - or is this something
that I should submit as a feature / enhancement request?

Thanks,

Dave
-- 
David Slater, Executive Director
Old Colony Library Network
www.ocln.org
phone:       781-794-2513
fax:         781-794-2517




From bergenpeak at comcast.net  Fri Aug 29 19:36:58 2008
From: bergenpeak at comcast.net (bergenpeak at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:36:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tweaking mails
Message-ID: <48B833BA.6020202@comcast.net>


On some of the mailman lists I manage, there might be some value if when 
the mail comes in to mailman, if I could parse the mail looking for key 
phrases or terms and based on what is found, either tweak the mail 
contents and/or insert some additional information above or below the 
mail's contents before mailman sends this updated mail message out to 
the subscribers.

The information added to the mail could be based on the mail's contents 
and/or information maintained in a file that would be tracking the info 
that was added in previous mails.

Is this possible?  Issues to be aware of in doing this?

Thanks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug 29 20:20:49 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:20:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tweaking mails
In-Reply-To: <48B833BA.6020202@comcast.net>
References: <48B833BA.6020202@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <48B83E01.7020006@shub-internet.org>

bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote:

> Is this possible?  Issues to be aware of in doing this?

If you want to make source code changes, anything is possible.  But then 
you'd probably want to take the rest of that discussion to mailman-developers.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From b19141 at anl.gov  Fri Aug 29 20:27:42 2008
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:27:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit list subscribers by domain
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"David Slater" '
	dated: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:14:22 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <20080829182742.BEE6E174E4@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

"David Slater"  wrote:

>Hello -
>
>I want to deny list subscriptions to any user whose email
>address does not include my domain.
>
>I realize that I can do that by having the list admin approve
>subscription requests, but I'd prefer to automate the process.
>
>I would hope that a rejection notice would be sent to any person
>who subscribes and does not have the correct email domain.
>
>Does anyone know how to do this - or is this something
>that I should submit as a feature / enhancement request?

Use ban_list

     ^!*.example.com

to prevent all subscriptions that are not from example.com .  This
regex will allow subscriptions from

     @aaa.example.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 29 21:51:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:51:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit list subscribers by domain
In-Reply-To: <20080829182742.BEE6E174E4@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: 

Barry Finkel wrote:

>"David Slater"  wrote:
>
>>Hello -
>>
>>I want to deny list subscriptions to any user whose email
>>address does not include my domain.
>>
>>I realize that I can do that by having the list admin approve
>>subscription requests, but I'd prefer to automate the process.
>>
>>I would hope that a rejection notice would be sent to any person
>>who subscribes and does not have the correct email domain.
>>
>>Does anyone know how to do this - or is this something
>>that I should submit as a feature / enhancement request?
>
>Use ban_list
>
>     ^!*.example.com
>
>to prevent all subscriptions that are not from example.com .  This
>regex will allow subscriptions from
>
>     @aaa.example.com


That's the right idea except that is not a Python regular expression
. Well,
actually, it is valid, but it doesn't do what you want. It matches
anything that starts with 0 or more '!' followed by any character
followed by 'example' followed by any character followed by 'com' with
possible trailing stuff after that.

What you would need to ban addresses not in the example.com domain or a
sub-domain thereof is something like

  ^.*@(?!(.*\.)?example\.com$)

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From javiabd at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 29 17:53:24 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:53:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help with html in body of email message
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <242810.75366.qm@web63703.mail.re1.yahoo.com>



Thanks,
?
I apologize all for multiple emails on this, this was not intentional, some how browser and yahoo client errorer out and shoot out multiple copies.
?


--- On Fri, 8/29/08, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

From: Mark Sapiro 
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] help with html in body of email message
To: javid at isns.org, mailman-users at python.org
Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 9:57 AM

Abdul Javid wrote:
>?
>This was working fine before. 
>?
>I used to attach html file as email attachement and use "html" in
options my yahoo.
>?
>The idea was to send the html file for readers to see in body of the email
not as file.
>?
>Not sure what changed recently am not able to do that, its goin as file
with following for every email
>?
>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>?
>?
>Any help is appreciated, i used this for mailman mailing list in my org and
now viewers are being prompted to download files rather than showing up in body
of message itself.
>?
>thanks in advance.


This is a Yahoo question.

This is a Yahoo question.

This is a Yahoo question.

This is a Yahoo question.

This is a Yahoo question.

(saving clutter by answering all five posts with one reply)

Something has changed in the message you are sending, or perhaps the
issue comes about in Mailman because you have added a msg_header and
or msg_footer. In any case there's not much that we could definitively
say without seeing the actual raw message.

In any case, be sure that msg_header an msg_footer on the Non-digest
options page are empty (not just blank, but truly empty) and see if
that helps.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




      

From akgul at Bilkent.EDU.TR  Sat Aug 30 18:13:24 2008
From: akgul at Bilkent.EDU.TR (Mustafa Akgul)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:13:24 +0300 (EET DST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing message number
Message-ID: <200808301613.m7UGDOKc000528@firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr>


Hello,

I will move  a few lists  to mailman,  from ecartis.
I want to retain  message numbers, and continue current
sequence. So  I need to  start message number  from a
non-zero number.

How can I do that ?

I am new to mailman. I can  undump,  config.pck, I can chnage
post-id.  I do not know, how to put that  fiile in pck  format.

Secondly, I manage to change  post-id,  will it break anything
else ?

Regards
Mustafa Akgul


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Aug 30 22:09:31 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:09:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing message number
In-Reply-To: <200808301613.m7UGDOKc000528@firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr>
References: <200808301613.m7UGDOKc000528@firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr>
Message-ID: 

On 8/30/08, Mustafa Akgul wrote:

>  I will move  a few lists  to mailman,  from ecartis.
>  I want to retain  message numbers, and continue current
>  sequence. So  I need to  start message number  from a
>  non-zero number.

I think you're going to have to make changes in the source code to 
achieve these goals.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 30 22:24:19 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:24:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing message number
In-Reply-To: <200808301613.m7UGDOKc000528@firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr>
Message-ID: 

Mustafa Akgul wrote:
>
>I will move  a few lists  to mailman,  from ecartis.
>I want to retain  message numbers, and continue current
>sequence. So  I need to  start message number  from a
>non-zero number.
>
>How can I do that ?
>
>I am new to mailman. I can  undump,  config.pck, I can chnage
>post-id.  I do not know, how to put that  fiile in pck  format.
>
>Secondly, I manage to change  post-id,  will it break anything
>else ?


You can change post_id (not post-id). It won't break anything.

Two ways to set post_id are bin/withlist and bin/config_list. With
either method, you need to set post_id to a floating point value.
E.g., if you want to set it to 237, you need to set it to 237.0. This
can be done by putting the single line

mlist.post_id = 237.0

in a file and running

bin/config_list -i /path/to/file listname

You can also set post_id in an interactive withlist session. E.g., for
a list named test

$ bin/withlist -l test
Loading list test (locked)
The variable `m' is the test MailList instance
>>> m.post_id
0.0
>>> m.post_id = 237.0
>>> m.post_id
237.0
>>> m.Save()
>>>
Unlocking (but not saving) list: test
Finalizing
$

The last input following the m.Save() input is a control-D (end of
file).

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From akgul at Bilkent.EDU.TR  Sun Aug 31 17:13:36 2008
From: akgul at Bilkent.EDU.TR (Mustafa Akgul)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:13:36 +0300 (EET DST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing message number
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <200808311513.m7VFDaAF029330@firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr>

> 
> Mustafa Akgul wrote:
> >
> >I will move  a few lists  to mailman,  from ecartis.
> >I want to retain  message numbers, and continue current
> >sequence. So  I need to  start message number  from a
> >non-zero number.
> >
> >How can I do that ?
> >
> >I am new to mailman. I can  undump,  config.pck, I can chnage
> >post-id.  I do not know, how to put that  fiile in pck  format.
> >
> >Secondly, I manage to change  post-id,  will it break anything
> >else ?
> 
> 
> You can change post_id (not post-id). It won't break anything.
> 
> Two ways to set post_id are bin/withlist and bin/config_list. With
> either method, you need to set post_id to a floating point value.
> E.g., if you want to set it to 237, you need to set it to 237.0. This
> can be done by putting the single line
> 
> mlist.post_id = 237.0
> 
> in a file and running
> 
> bin/config_list -i /path/to/file listname
> 

I have  tried  this method. It worked fine.

Many thanks 

Mustafa Akgul

> You can also set post_id in an interactive withlist session. E.g., for
> a list named test
> 
> $ bin/withlist -l test
> Loading list test (locked)
> The variable `m' is the test MailList instance
> >>> m.post_id
> 0.0
> >>> m.post_id = 237.0
> >>> m.post_id
> 237.0
> >>> m.Save()
> >>>
> Unlocking (but not saving) list: test
> Finalizing
> $
> 
> The last input following the m.Save() input is a control-D (end of
> file).
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

