From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  1 01:01:24 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:01:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation issues
In-Reply-To: <00a701c75b90$35d4b860$6601a8c0@BILLHP>
Message-ID: <PC17602007022816012404210669fdfd@msapiro>

Bill Lempesis
>
>Non-member mail still goes directly to the list. What is the setting for
>Mail <-> News Gateways Moderation policy of the news group? If None all mail
>goes directly to the list. If Moderated, all are moderated including
>members. Am I missing something?


Mail from the News->Mail (i.e. from the newsgroup to the list) is
passed through without any membership or moderation checks on the
poster whatsoever.

If Mail<->News gateways -> news_moderation is set to Moderated, then
all mail from usenet to the list is held.

I.e. it is designed to work just as you observe. There is no way to
moderate/reject only those posts from usenet that are not From: a list
member.

I think you can do what you seem to want by editing
Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py and changing

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    if msgdata.get('approved') or msgdata.get('fromusenet'):
        return

to

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    if msgdata.get('approved'):
        return

and setting news_moderation to other than 'Moderated', however if you
do this and set generic_nonmember_action = Reject, you will send
reject notices to non-members whose posts were accepted by the
newsgroup which may be confusing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  1 02:16:55 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:16:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation issues
In-Reply-To: <00b301c75b9a$8f65c090$6601a8c0@BILLHP>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702281716550468e7ab706b@msapiro>

Bill Lempesis wrote:
>
>To summarize: There is no way to block non-members who you don't know from
>posting to a list that is Open. Can't have a list that allows only members
>to post. This was a feature in older versions of Mailman.


If by 'older' you mean older than 2.1.3, then you are correct.

If members are not moderated and generic_nonmember_action is Reject or
Discard, then posts via email from members should go directly to the
list and posts via email from non-members not in *_these_nonmembers
should be rejected or discarded.

OTOH, posts arriving via the news->mail gateway are held or not based
on the setting of news_moderation regardless of who they are from,
although this is not the intended use of the news_moderation setting.

Prior to Mailman 2.1.3, posts arriving from usenet via the news-mail
gateway were subject to the same membership filtering as posts
arriving by email. If you want to restore that behavior, you need to
make the change to Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py that I indicated in my
reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-March/055896.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  1 02:38:50 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:38:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation issues
In-Reply-To: <00c901c75ba0$0a0197c0$6601a8c0@BILLHP>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702281738500187adddaf4d@msapiro>

Bill Lempesis wrote:
>
>I believe your first response was correct. I was using a non member email
>address that was associated with my name as a test of the list. It appears
>that Mailman was allowing it to pass since I am subscribed to the list with
>another email address. Would Mailman allow it because the names match even
>though email addresses are different? 


No. membership is tested only by email address, however a member's
address appearing in any of the headers From:, Reply-To: or Sender: or
in the unix From_ line which is normally the envelope sender's address
is sufficient. Actually, the list of headers searched for a member is
SENDER_HEADERS which can be set in mm_cfg.py, but the above four are
the default.

So if your test had ,e.g., Reply-To: your member address, or the
envelope was sent by your member address, that would suffice to get
the post accepted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  1 03:41:53 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 18:41:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No mail and no posts from mailman
In-Reply-To: <20070228164359.GB29311@bobcat.bobcatos.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007022818415302960669fd9d@msapiro>

Bob McClure Jr wrote:
>
>There are no clues in there, so they must have died over a month ago.
>Do I need to put in a cron-driven monitor to check up on the qrunners
>or is there a more sophisticated way to do that?

The RedHat implementation of 'mailmanctl status' (see
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1208685&group_id=103&atid=300103>)
is intended to provide a way to check, but it only checks the master
mailmanctl process. If one or more runners has died in a way that it
won't be restarted, or has reached the restart limit, 'mailmanctl
status' can look OK when things really aren't.

Looking for all the qrunners periodically with a cron is good.
Something else which is good is Brad's daily status report script
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103>.
This runs daily at midnight via cron and checks some directories and
looks for various things in logs and mails a report. It requires a
small modification which is attached or it will miss the initial
portion of the day that logs rotate, but it is quite good.

The patch should only be applied if logs are rotated as it assumes the
existance of a '.1' log without checking.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Thu Mar  1 07:44:17 2007
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 07:44:17 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default language and English
Message-ID: <1057.192.168.11.11.1172731457.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>

Hello,

I have 3 questions about mailman (2.1.9).

1. I chose Polish as the default language for one list. And then I ticked
off English. Only later did I notice that English has not been
deactivated. Is it so that English is mandatory then?

2. Because Polish is the default language of a list, I edited the Polish
template cronpass.txt and waited if the edited information will be sent to
list members. However, to my surprise they got it in English. Does this
have anything to do with no. 1 above? How can I make sure that both the
subject line + mail content of password reminder will be output in Polish?

3. The information from point 2 was sent by me issuing
"/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/mailpasswds" command.
However, cron was supposed to have done it at 5 in the morning today. That
is Mailman's cron. Do I have to set it up somehow because it seems it is
not working?

Thank you very much for your help!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot


From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Thu Mar  1 08:07:00 2007
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 08:07:00 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default language and English
In-Reply-To: <1057.192.168.11.11.1172731457.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>
References: <1057.192.168.11.11.1172731457.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>
Message-ID: <1103.192.168.11.11.1172732820.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>

Hello,

> 3. The information from point 2 was sent by me issuing
> "/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/mailpasswds" command.
> However, cron was supposed to have done it at 5 in the morning today. That
>  is Mailman's cron. Do I have to set it up somehow because it seems it is
>  not working?

Looking at the docs I have found out answer to this question and set up
cron for mailman. But would appreciate help with the first two questions.

Thank you!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot


From noc at iem.at  Thu Mar  1 11:22:09 2007
From: noc at iem.at (IEM - network operating center)
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 11:22:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reset bounce score?
Message-ID: <45E6A951.2000405@iem.at>

hi.

i have recently upgraded my mailman from 2.1.5-8sarge5 -> 1:2.1.9-5 (i
am on debian-sarge/etch migration)

since then a lot of subscribers to my list are unsubscribed due to bounces.

this made me a bit confused and so i investigated the databases with dumpdb.
this is an excerpt of the bounce information:
        current score: 4.0
        last bounce date: (2005, 8, 10)
        email notices left: 3
        last notice date: (1970, 1, 2)
        confirmation cookie: None

since this seems to be outdated, i would like to ask whether there is a
possibility to reset the bounce status for a member (or all) to "nothing".

i guess this can be done with "withlist", but before i start learning
withlist again, i'd like to ask if somebody has a ready to use solution
at hand and is willing to share.


fmga.sdr
IOhannes

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  1 16:33:09 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 07:33:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reset bounce score?
In-Reply-To: <45E6A951.2000405@iem.at>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703010733090796a26e7fa5@msapiro>

IEM - network operating center wrote:
>
>since this seems to be outdated, i would like to ask whether there is a
>possibility to reset the bounce status for a member (or all) to "nothing".
>
>i guess this can be done with "withlist", but before i start learning
>withlist again, i'd like to ask if somebody has a ready to use solution
>at hand and is willing to share.


There are several withlist script examples at
<http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/> (mirror
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/>).

To remove bounce info from all members, you could modify the
fix_bad_bounce_info.py script by removing the line

        if not mlist.isMember(member):

To re-enable members you have been disabled by bounce but not yet
removed, use the reset_bounce.py script.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ccrogers at earthsci.carleton.ca  Thu Mar  1 16:26:13 2007
From: ccrogers at earthsci.carleton.ca (Chris Rogers)
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 10:26:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nested groups problems
Message-ID: <45E6F095.3060302@earthsci.carleton.ca>

Have anyone had problems with nesting email groups in Mailman? The 
reason I am using nested groups is that I work in a very transient 
community where we have about 10 email lists and on occasion we need to 
send a message to all those lists. About every third email sent to an 
all-users at somewhere.com crashes my server. There are not messages in any 
of the server logs to help diagnose the problem.

Any suggestions would be welcome.
Chris

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  1 16:55:46 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 07:55:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default language and English
In-Reply-To: <1057.192.168.11.11.1172731457.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030107554609218202ec27@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>1. I chose Polish as the default language for one list. And then I ticked
>off English. Only later did I notice that English has not been
>deactivated. Is it so that English is mandatory then?


English is not mandatory, but DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE is.


>2. Because Polish is the default language of a list, I edited the Polish
>template cronpass.txt and waited if the edited information will be sent to
>list members. However, to my surprise they got it in English. Does this
>have anything to do with no. 1 above? How can I make sure that both the
>subject line + mail content of password reminder will be output in Polish?


Password reminders are sent in the user's preferred language. If the
reminder is for more than one list, and the user's preferred languages
are not all the same, we use the language that is preferred in the
largest number of the user's lists and pick randomly from ties.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  1 17:03:27 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 08:03:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nested groups problems
In-Reply-To: <45E6F095.3060302@earthsci.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030108032707655e79c678@msapiro>

Chris Rogers wrote:

>Have anyone had problems with nesting email groups in Mailman? The 
>reason I am using nested groups is that I work in a very transient 
>community where we have about 10 email lists and on occasion we need to 
>send a message to all those lists. About every third email sent to an 
>all-users at somewhere.com crashes my server. There are not messages in any 
>of the server logs to help diagnose the problem.

I suggest looking in Mailman's 'post' and 'smtp' and perhaps
'smtp-failure' logs to see if the message is processed through the
super-list and all the subordinates. Also look in the MTA logs to see
what got to the MTA and what it is doing with it.

I suspect this is not a Mailman issue, but rather the volume of
outgoing mail is triggering something else.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From noc at iem.at  Thu Mar  1 17:40:15 2007
From: noc at iem.at (IEM - network operating center)
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 17:40:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reset bounce score?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703010733090796a26e7fa5@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200703010733090796a26e7fa5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45E701EF.5050809@iem.at>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> IEM - network operating center wrote:
>> since this seems to be outdated, i would like to ask whether there is a
>> possibility to reset the bounce status for a member (or all) to "nothing".
>>
>> i guess this can be done with "withlist", but before i start learning
>> withlist again, i'd like to ask if somebody has a ready to use solution
>> at hand and is willing to share.
> 
> 
> There are several withlist script examples at
> <http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/> (mirror
> <http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/>).

thanks a lot, this is exactly what i was looking for.


fmgasd
IOhannes

From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Thu Mar  1 17:54:37 2007
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 17:54:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default language and English
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007030107554609218202ec27@msapiro>
References: <1057.192.168.11.11.1172731457.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>
	<PC17602007030107554609218202ec27@msapiro>
Message-ID: <62058.192.168.11.7.1172768077.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>

Hi there,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Password reminders are sent in the user's preferred language. If the
> reminder is for more than one list, and the user's preferred languages are
> not all the same, we use the language that is preferred in the largest
> number of the user's lists and pick randomly from ties.

Thank you! Yes, when I switched the language for subscribers to Polish, I
got a notice in Polish. I am still trying to see if I can take it a step
further.

I edited $prefix/mailman/messages/pl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po and commented
out line 10230 (msgid "Password // URL" and its Polish translation) and
altered line 10234 (msgid "%(host)s mailing list memberships reminder"). I
saved the file and ran sudo /usr/local/bin/python -S
/usr/local/mailman/cron/mailpasswds however, this appears to have had no
effect on mailing.

What I am trying to do is to make the list more appropriate for the
newsletter type of subscribers. They don't care about passwords, options,
all they want is to get a (monthly) newsletter. Initially I set the
personalization on but because each newsletter is about 100KB in size,
this drains server resources when MTA quickly gets many such messages to
be sent. So I figured I'd give up on personalization but offered reminders
for which I simplified the language templates to be understandable to
non-technical people.

Mark - I know have no right to ask for any future features but would you
consider offering future mailman versions more suited for newsletter type
of things? Maybe a general switch during list creation to distinguish
between discussion lists (with its own set of settings) and a newsletter
type of lists where most of the settings are redundant (digets, passwords,
option pages).

I really appreciate what you are doing and thank you very much for helping
us all.

For the time being I kept the personalization on but turned the limit of
max concurrent connections to MTA down to 1. Will see if that helps me
keep the server sane (the machine is not too powerful and does not have
too much RAM) and still communicate using mailman.

Thanks!



-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  1 19:09:59 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:09:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default language and English
In-Reply-To: <62058.192.168.11.7.1172768077.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030110095902650669fd84@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>Thank you! Yes, when I switched the language for subscribers to Polish, I
>got a notice in Polish. I am still trying to see if I can take it a step
>further.
>
>I edited $prefix/mailman/messages/pl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po and commented
>out line 10230 (msgid "Password // URL" and its Polish translation) and
>altered line 10234 (msgid "%(host)s mailing list memberships reminder"). I
>saved the file and ran sudo /usr/local/bin/python -S
>/usr/local/mailman/cron/mailpasswds however, this appears to have had no
>effect on mailing.


Two things here:

If you 'comment out' or otherwise alter the 'msgid' value, you
guarantee that the message will be rendered in English. This is
because the English Language string is in the actual code and when the
i18n module is called to translate it, it uses the English string to
look up the corresponding 'msgid' and find the translation in the
corresponding 'msgstr'. If it doesn't find an exact match for the
English string in the 'msgid' strings, it can't provide a translation
at all. Thus, unless the hard coded English message in the Mailman
code changes, you can't change 'msgid'.

The other thing is mailman.po is the source. The file that's actually
used is mailman.mo. If you change mailman.po, you have to run msgfmt
to creat a new mailman.mo. You can use the standard GNU msgfmt, but
some mailman.po files have 'errors' it doesn't like so it is safer to
use Mailman's bin/msgfmt.py.

>Mark - I know have no right to ask for any future features but would you
>consider offering future mailman versions more suited for newsletter type
>of things? Maybe a general switch during list creation to distinguish
>between discussion lists (with its own set of settings) and a newsletter
>type of lists where most of the settings are redundant (digets, passwords,
>option pages).

You have as much right as anyone to request features.

We have had discussions which I don't have time to look up right now of
adding a theme concept to list creation. I.e. a 'discussion' theme, an
'announcement' theme, etc. Then you could specify a theme for a list
and it would be set up appropriately.

I'm not sure either where we are with implementation this.

Anyway, see the wiki at <http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>
regarding plans and feature requests.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Thu Mar  1 19:41:18 2007
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 19:41:18 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default language and English
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007030110095902650669fd84@msapiro>
References: <62058.192.168.11.7.1172768077.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>
	<PC17602007030110095902650669fd84@msapiro>
Message-ID: <60664.192.168.11.7.1172774478.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>

Hello again,


>> Mark - I know have no right to ask for any future features but would
>> you consider offering future mailman versions more suited for newsletter
>> type of things? Maybe a general switch during list creation to
>> distinguish between discussion lists (with its own set of settings) and
>> a newsletter type of lists where most of the settings are redundant
>> (digets, passwords,
>> option pages).
>
> You have as much right as anyone to request features.

I meant at least in the sense that I am using the software, not paying
anything, getting your precious support & taking your time, but ...
thanks!


> We have had discussions which I don't have time to look up right now of
> adding a theme concept to list creation. I.e. a 'discussion' theme, an
> 'announcement' theme, etc. Then you could specify a theme for a list
> and it would be set up appropriately.

> Anyway, see the wiki at <http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>
> regarding plans and feature requests.

I am sure things are going in the right direction. I just think that
building some kind of e-marketing features into mailman might help it
considerably in gaining new grounds. I work in a non-profit sector and I
am happy I can use open source tools. Thanks for mailman. I stop hacking
mailman sources and patiently wait for new verions.

Warm regards,

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot


From renatoparolin at gmail.com  Thu Mar  1 20:17:01 2007
From: renatoparolin at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Renato_C=E9sar?=)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 16:17:01 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setup problems
Message-ID: <001401c75c36$320d99d0$c800a8c0@renatocp>

Hi, 


I have installed the mailman 2.1.9 following the site instructions, but the Postfix not recognize my list address. I use the "Integration with Postfix" describe in mailman site.
When I create a list by web interface the e-mails are sent normally, but when a member list send a message to list the Postfix returns the follow message : 

This is the Postfix program at host ns.sesa.com.br.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

                   The Postfix program

list at teste.com: unknown user: list at teste.com


My Postfix is running with a MySQL database. 

thanks, 
Renato

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  1 21:01:24 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 12:01:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setup problems
In-Reply-To: <001401c75c36$320d99d0$c800a8c0@renatocp>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703011201240125e64e30d5@msapiro>

Renato C?sar wrote:

>When I create a list by web interface the e-mails are sent normally, but when a member list send a message to list the Postfix returns the follow message : 
>
<snip>
>
>list at teste.com: unknown user: list at teste.com
>
>
>My Postfix is running with a MySQL database. 


Did you add 'hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases' (or whatever the
correct path is) to alias_maps in your Postfix configuration per
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>?


Are /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases and
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db updated by Mailman when you create
lists?

Are the entries for the list named 'list' (from list at teste.com above)
in /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases?


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From siffert at museworld.com  Thu Mar  1 22:53:24 2007
From: siffert at museworld.com (Curt Siffert)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 13:53:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces@wrong.domain
Message-ID: <B57CB474-4301-45C4-BFFF-70DF1341E4D9@museworld.com>


Hi, I'm experiencing a strange problem.

I have mailman set up with sendmail, recent versions.

I have the mailman list set up on my server's base domain.
I have another list ("muse") set up on a virtual host.
I have the add_virtualhost('virtdomain.com', 'virtdomain.com') added  
to mm_cfg.py
I have the appropriate aliases added to /etc/mail/aliases
And I also have the appropriate entries added to virtusertable
	(for instance, mailman-bounces at rootdomain.com goes to mailman-bounces,
	and muse-bounces at virtdomain.com goes to muse-bounces)

But now, when I try to send messages to muse-bounces at virtdomain.com ,  
I get
an error message in my smtp-failure file that says it couldn't send to
muse-bounces at rootdomain.com

Why is it trying to send to muse-bounces at rootdomain.com ?

I don't know if I'm actually supposed to receive muse-bounces emails  
under normal
circumstances, but the bigger problem is that I get the exact same  
error message
in the logs when someone subscribes to my list and the system  
attempts to inform
me (as I have admin_notify_mchanges turned on).  I don't get informed  
of new
subscriptions.

Everything else works fine.  Messages go to the list fine.  When I  
subscribe or
unsubscribe, I get informed via email.  When I switch the list to  
require approval
instead of confirmation, I do get notices of someone asking to  
subscribe.  I get
informed of a message held for moderation.

Can someone fill me in on what might be happening here?  I actually
thought I had this working a few days ago - maybe some list setting has
messed this up?

Here's the error message

Mar 01 13:06:07 2007 (5334) SMTP session failure: 553, 5.3.0 <mailman- 
bounces at virtdomain.com>... User unknown, msgid: <mailman. 
5.1172783167.85775.muse at virtdomain.com>

Thanks,
Curt


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  1 23:27:25 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 14:27:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces@wrong.domain
In-Reply-To: <B57CB474-4301-45C4-BFFF-70DF1341E4D9@museworld.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703011427250453e64e321e@msapiro>

Curt Siffert <siffert at museworld.com> wrote:
>
>But now, when I try to send messages to muse-bounces at virtdomain.com ,  
>I get
>an error message in my smtp-failure file that says it couldn't send to
>muse-bounces at rootdomain.com

Why are you trying to send mail to muse-bounces at virtdomain.com? That
address should only be receiving bounces of mail sent from the
muse at virtdomain.com list.

>Why is it trying to send to muse-bounces at rootdomain.com ?


It's not. See below.


>I don't know if I'm actually supposed to receive muse-bounces emails  
>under normal
>circumstances, but the bigger problem is that I get the exact same  
>error message
>in the logs when someone subscribes to my list and the system  
>attempts to inform
>me (as I have admin_notify_mchanges turned on).  I don't get informed  
>of new
>subscriptions.
>
>Everything else works fine.  Messages go to the list fine.  When I  
>subscribe or
>unsubscribe, I get informed via email.  When I switch the list to  
>require approval
>instead of confirmation, I do get notices of someone asking to  
>subscribe.  I get
>informed of a message held for moderation.
>
>Can someone fill me in on what might be happening here?  I actually
>thought I had this working a few days ago - maybe some list setting has
>messed this up?
>
>Here's the error message
>
>Mar 01 13:06:07 2007 (5334) SMTP session failure: 553, 5.3.0 <mailman- 
>bounces at virtdomain.com>... User unknown, msgid: <mailman. 
>5.1172783167.85775.muse at virtdomain.com>


This message says a mailman crafted message of some sort processed by
the muse at virtdomain.com list (I get that from the msgid) was rejected
by the outgoing MTA. In this case, I believe that
mailman-bounces at virtdomain.com is the envelope sender (not the
recipient) of the message (probably a forward to the list owner of an
unrecognized bounce, but that is just a guess based on your saying you
mailed to muse-bounces), and the outgoing MTA is rejecting the message
because it doesn't accept MAIL FROM mailman-bounces at virtdomain.com.
The sendmail maillog may have more information.

The underlying issue is the site list bounces address is used as the
envelope sender of various messages that otherwise might result in
loops if they were sent from the listname-bounces address and bounced.
When this is done, the domain of the list is used as the domain of the
sitelist-bounces address (probably wrong, but it is).

The bottom line is the sitelist at virtdomain address should be
deliverable if only because that's the address on the listinfo
overview web page for the domain for the "If you are having trouble
using the lists, please contact" link.

Also, sitelist-bounces at virtdoman has to be acceptable as an envelope
sender to the outgoing MTA.
 
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at johmar.com  Fri Mar  2 10:56:33 2007
From: david at johmar.com (David Beaumont)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 09:56:33 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newsgroup interface picking up spam
Message-ID: <007001c75cb1$0f67dbe0$46dd8151@computername>

On our members only list how can we prevent the newsgroup interface picking
up posts (spam) from non members?  We have mailman 2.1.8.  I see here 

http://staff.imsa.edu/~ckolar/mailman/mailman-administration-v2.html 

there is an option

"Should newsgroup posts not sent from the list be resent to the list?
Specifies whether or not messages posted by people out there in the world
who are not members of the list should be gated and distributed to list
members. " 

Which would seem to be the answer but we don't have that, is it new in
2.1.9?

Thanks

David



From john at wa9als.com  Fri Mar  2 13:49:55 2007
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:49:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
Message-ID: <005e01c75cc9$485aca80$0201a8c0@wa9als>

Never seen this before - When visiting mailman listinfo web page, I get:

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
We're sorry, we hit a bug!
Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but 
the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.

- and my lists aren't working.  Restarting qrunner or rebooting (!) don't 
help.  Anything stand out to you in the error log below?  pid file missing?? 
How would that happen?  Any help for this newbie would be greatly 
appreciated!  Thanks - John

Mar 02 07:35:40 2007 admin(5190): 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(5190): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
admin(5190): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(5190): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(5190):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in run_main
admin(5190):     main()
admin(5190):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 42, in 
main
admin(5190):     listinfo_overview()
admin(5190):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 88, in 
listinfo_overview
admin(5190):     if mlist.advertised:
admin(5190):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in 
__getattr__
admin(5190):     raise AttributeError, name
admin(5190): AttributeError: advertised
admin(5190): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(5190): sys.version     =   2.3.5 (#2, Oct 16 2006, 19:19:48)
[GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-13)]
admin(5190): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(5190): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(5190): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(5190): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(5190): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(5190): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(5190):  SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.33 (Debian GNU/Linux) 
PHP/4.3.10-18 mod_ssl/2.8.22 OpenSSL/0.9.7e
admin(5190):  SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo
admin(5190):  SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.33 Server at 
impactoveneto.org Port 80</ADDRESS>
admin(5190):
admin(5190):  REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(5190):  SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(5190):  QUERY_STRING:
admin(5190):  HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 
5.1; SV1)
admin(5190):  HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
admin(5190):  SERVER_NAME: impactoveneto.org
admin(5190):  REMOTE_ADDR: 64.105.150.50
admin(5190):  SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(5190):  SERVER_ADDR: 64.105.150.51
admin(5190):  DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/impactoveneto/www/
admin(5190):  PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
admin(5190):  SCRIPT_FILENAME: /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin//listinfo
admin(5190):  SERVER_ADMIN: john at wa9als.com
admin(5190):  HTTP_HOST: impactoveneto.org
admin(5190):  REQUEST_URI: /mailman/listinfo
admin(5190):  HTTP_ACCEPT: */*
admin(5190):  GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(5190):  REMOTE_PORT: 33351
admin(5190):  HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us
admin(5190):  HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate
Mar 02 07:36:48 2007 mailmanctl(5284): PID unreadable in: 
/var/run/mailman/mailman.pid
Mar 02 07:36:48 2007 mailmanctl(5284): [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
'/var/run/mailman/mailman.pid'
Mar 02 07:36:48 2007 mailmanctl(5284): Is qrunner even running?
Mar 02 07:36:50 2007 (5290) Uncaught runner exception: language
Mar 02 07:36:50 2007 (5290) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 161, in _onefile
    lang = mlist.getMemberLanguage(sender)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 116, in 
getMemberLanguage
    lang = self.__mlist.language.get(
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: language

----------------------------------------  
SNIP---------------------------------------------------------------------

Mar 02 07:37:14 2007 (5311) SHUNTING: 
1008297783.149177+211c1bb30212c20dd5eb5087684a8ae9e272e80e
Mar 02 07:37:25 2007 admin(5327): 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(5327): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
admin(5327): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(5327): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(5327):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in run_main
admin(5327):     main()
admin(5327):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 42, in 
main
admin(5327):     listinfo_overview()
admin(5327):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 88, in 
listinfo_overview
admin(5327):     if mlist.advertised:
admin(5327):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in 
__getattr__
admin(5327):     raise AttributeError, name
admin(5327): AttributeError: advertised
admin(5327): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(5327): sys.version     =   2.3.5 (#2, Oct 16 2006, 19:19:48)
[GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-13)]
admin(5327): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(5327): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(5327): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(5327): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(5327): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(5327): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(5327):  SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.33 (Debian GNU/Linux) 
PHP/4.3.10-18 mod_ssl/2.8.22 OpenSSL/0.9.7e
admin(5327):  SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo
admin(5327):  SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.33 Server at wa9als.com 
Port 443</ADDRESS>
admin(5327):
admin(5327):  REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(5327):  SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(5327):  QUERY_STRING:
admin(5327):  HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 
5.1; SV1)
admin(5327):  HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
admin(5327):  SERVER_NAME: wa9als.com
admin(5327):  REMOTE_ADDR: 64.105.150.50
admin(5327):  SERVER_PORT: 443
admin(5327):  SERVER_ADDR: 64.105.150.51
admin(5327):  DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/wa9als/www/
admin(5327):  PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
admin(5327):  SCRIPT_FILENAME: /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin//listinfo
admin(5327):  SERVER_ADMIN: john at wa9als.com
admin(5327):  HTTP_HOST: wa9als.com
admin(5327):  HTTPS: on
admin(5327):  REQUEST_URI: /mailman/listinfo
admin(5327):  HTTP_ACCEPT: */*
admin(5327):  nokeepalive: 1
admin(5327):  GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(5327):  REMOTE_PORT: 32889
admin(5327):  HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us
admin(5327):  ssl_unclean_shutdown: 1
admin(5327):  HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate
Mar 02 07:37:28 2007 (5311) Uncaught runner exception: language
Mar 02 07:37:28 2007 (5311) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 161, in _onefile
    lang = mlist.getMemberLanguage(sender)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 116, in 
getMemberLanguage
    lang = self.__mlist.language.get(
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: language

Mar 02 07:37:28 2007 (5311) SHUNTING: 
1008298314.179932+606e3627579e7c6452b0ba13fd944c61f7270b7d
Mar 02 07:37:28 2007 (5311) Uncaught runner exception: language
Mar 02 07:37:28 2007 (5311) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 161, in _onefile
    lang = mlist.getMemberLanguage(sender)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 116, in 
getMemberLanguage
    lang = self.__mlist.language.get(
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: language

Mar 02 07:37:28 2007 (5311) SHUNTING: 
1008300154.540808+655c3679244a683adab6b4042bb9b8fb837ac091
Mar 02 07:37:39 2007 (5311) Uncaught runner exception: language
Mar 02 07:37:39 2007 (5311) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 161, in _onefile
    lang = mlist.getMemberLanguage(sender)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 116, in 
getMemberLanguage
    lang = self.__mlist.language.get(
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: language

Mar 02 07:37:39 2007 (5311) SHUNTING: 
1008301472.112578+b7dc21277ef8cadb2bc534bf5cafe2cfa0b49077
Mar 02 07:37:39 2007 (5311) Uncaught runner exception: language
Mar 02 07:37:39 2007 (5311) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 161, in _onefile
    lang = mlist.getMemberLanguage(sender)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 116, in 
getMemberLanguage
    lang = self.__mlist.language.get(
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: language

Mar 02 07:37:39 2007 (5311) SHUNTING: 
1008302599.373763+372efc2078e05d9cb3068567343a2358bf061dc5
Mar 02 07:37:49 2007 (5311) Uncaught runner exception: (4, 'Interrupted 
system call')
Mar 02 07:37:49 2007 (5311) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in 
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in 
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line 76, in 
process
    score, symbols = check_message(mlist, str(msg))
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line 62, in 
check_message
    res = connection.check(spamd.SYMBOLS, message)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py", line 122, in check
    response = fp.readline()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/socket.py", line 338, in readline
    data = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
error: (4, 'Interrupted system call')

Mar 02 07:37:49 2007 (5311) SHUNTING: 
1008303067.2221119+3eb7cfce1e28cd1f4f8c7c6467d1a7c2974a9319


From midhunramdas at gmail.com  Fri Mar  2 15:56:11 2007
From: midhunramdas at gmail.com (Midhun Ramadas)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 20:26:11 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting pending subscription request daily
Message-ID: <55be6e620703020656l4dbea15lbbf7fd17676d5b35@mail.gmail.com>

Hi ,

I am getting pending subscription request daily for my mailing list and when
i go to Tend to pending requests, I am not finding anything.

This happens daily.

Can anyone please help me how to remove/stop this mail coming?

Is this any bug?

Thanks in advance,
Midhun

From steele at agora-net.com  Fri Mar  2 16:55:13 2007
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:55:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime conversions - missing carriage returns and odd
	characters
Message-ID: <45E848E1.7090207@agora-net.com>

Hey folks.

Recently, messages from AOL ( shudder, X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 23823 in 
one example I'm viewing ) and Outlook ( shudder, Build 11.0.5510 in one 
example I'm viewing ) have been sending multipart messages which appear 
to confuse the Mailman MimeDel ( X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 
2.1.8 is header, FWIW ).

Here's an example snippet:

Appreciative Inquiry? Or, the power of Ambivalent Thinking. Revisit, for 
a moment, thoughts about Norman Vincent Peale???s ???The Power of 
Positive Thinking???, about Dale Carnegie???s ???How to Win Friends and 
Influence People???, and, then the brillance of the ???Appreciative 
Inquiry??? movement arising from the depths of OB study at Case Western 
Reserve?? BUT, also, think about how ow a CWRU faculty Psychologist (of 
the original OB group, and first to exit) could ???dim the lights??? 
within dedicated students by simply saying: ???How come you appear to be 
smiling, all the time???? Also, reflect on how some of the bravest and 
toughest individuals- who have lived through rough situations and 
survived without obsolescence of spirit- are the warmest of friends 
(full of life and strength).

As you have probably ascertained by the MimeDel version, I'm running 
2.1.8, and am not in a huge rush to upgrade to 2.1.9 unless there are 
fixes that specifically pertain to the handling of HTML messages. I'm 
not quite sure why the messages are missing the carriage returns after 
Mailman has finished parsing the HTML (maybe an unclosed <br> or <p>?), 
but any advice and/or insight would be more than welcome! I can provide 
full headers (obscuring the names of the innocent) if that would help 
anyone. Thanks alot!

Best Regards,
Ryan

-- 
Ryan Steele                         
Systems Administrator               steele at agora-net.com
AgoraNet, Inc.                      (302) 224-2475
314 E. Main Street, Suite 1         (302) 224-2552 (fax)
Newark, DE 19711                    http://www.agora-net.com


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Fri Mar  2 17:03:07 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 09:03:07 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trapping messages with null subjects sent to list
Message-ID: <200703021603.l22G37bO006823@julie.lostwells.net>

Is there a recipe to put in the spam filters that will trap a totally
empty subject line in a message?   This get posted to a list with 
(no subject) in the subject line, but this is evidently added after
the spam filter check.  

I've tried \n, which catches these, but it also catches too many 
responses where the responder has changed the original subject as
well.  

Virtually all of these null-subject posts we get are demands to
unsubscribe the poster.  On our lists, we'd settle for catching them
as administrative requests.  

Hank

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  2 17:07:35 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 08:07:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newsgroup interface picking up spam
In-Reply-To: <007001c75cb1$0f67dbe0$46dd8151@computername>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703020807350156221725df@msapiro>

David Beaumont wrote:

>On our members only list how can we prevent the newsgroup interface picking
>up posts (spam) from non members?  We have mailman 2.1.8.  I see here 
>
>http://staff.imsa.edu/~ckolar/mailman/mailman-administration-v2.html 
>
>there is an option
>
>"Should newsgroup posts not sent from the list be resent to the list?
>Specifies whether or not messages posted by people out there in the world
>who are not members of the list should be gated and distributed to list
>members. " 
>
>Which would seem to be the answer but we don't have that, is it new in
>2.1.9?


You do have it. It is just described differently in Mailman 2.1 than it
was in the Mailman 2.0 document you quote above. The option it is
describing is gateway_to_mail. The "not members of the list" language
assumes that list members will post to the list rather than the
newsgroup.

If you want to gate a list-member's newsgroup post back to the list,
but treat non-member posts to the newsgroup the same as non-member
posts to the list, You need to modify your
Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py module and change

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    if msgdata.get('approved') or msgdata.get('fromusenet'):
        return

to

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    if msgdata.get('approved'):
        return

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  2 17:15:54 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 08:15:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
In-Reply-To: <005e01c75cc9$485aca80$0201a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703020815540593221727a7@msapiro>

John Fleming wrote:

>Never seen this before - When visiting mailman listinfo web page, I get:
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but 
>the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>
>- and my lists aren't working.  Restarting qrunner or rebooting (!) don't 
>help.  Anything stand out to you in the error log below?  pid file missing?? 
>How would that happen?  Any help for this newbie would be greatly 
>appreciated!  Thanks - John


It appears that the config.pck file for at least one list is corrupt.

Try running

 bin/dumpdb lists/<listname>/config.pck

for all your lists. If you find one that looks like things are missing,
try

 bin/dumpdb -p lists/<listname>/config.pck.last

for that list. If the config.pck.last looks OK (it probably won't), you
can do

 cp lists/<listname>/config.pck.last lists/<listname>/config.pck

for that list. Otherwise, I hope you have a recent backup.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Mar  2 17:17:41 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:17:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newsgroup interface picking up spam
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703020807350156221725df@msapiro>
References: <007001c75cb1$0f67dbe0$46dd8151@computername>
	<PC1760200703020807350156221725df@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070302161741.GA15084@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> If you want to gate a list-member's newsgroup post back to the list,
> but treat non-member posts to the newsgroup the same as non-member
> posts to the list, You need to modify your
> Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py module and change

A long time ago I gatewayed a mailing list (not Mailman) to a newsgroup,
and then made the newsgroup moderated with the moderator email address set
to the submission address for the mailing list.  That meant nobody could
post to the newsgroup without going through the mailing list software, and
the mailing list software could reject non-members.

If you don't want non-members posting to the newsgroup or the mailing list
that might be worth a try.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
FAQs are like flatulence. Any asshole can produce them.
              -- Toni L

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  2 17:53:23 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 08:53:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime conversions - missing carriage returns and
	oddcharacters
In-Reply-To: <45E848E1.7090207@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703020853230578437b0cd9@msapiro>

Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>Recently, messages from AOL ( shudder, X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 23823 in 
>one example I'm viewing ) and Outlook ( shudder, Build 11.0.5510 in one 
>example I'm viewing ) have been sending multipart messages which appear 
>to confuse the Mailman MimeDel ( X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 
>2.1.8 is header, FWIW ).
>
>Here's an example snippet:
>
>Appreciative Inquiry? Or, the power of Ambivalent Thinking. Revisit, for 
>a moment, thoughts about Norman Vincent Peale???s ???The Power of 
>Positive Thinking???, about Dale Carnegie???s ???How to Win Friends and 
>Influence People???, and, then the brillance of the ???Appreciative 
>Inquiry??? movement arising from the depths of OB study at Case Western 
>Reserve

 BUT, also, think about how ow a CWRU faculty Psychologist (of 
>the original OB group, and first to exit) could ???dim the lights??? 
>within dedicated students by simply saying: ???How come you appear to be 
>smiling, all the time???? Also, reflect on how some of the bravest and 
>toughest individuals- who have lived through rough situations and 
>survived without obsolescence of spirit- are the warmest of friends 
>(full of life and strength).


Most of the funny things in the above are utf-8 encoded right single
quote (used as apostrophe) and left and right double quotes. The
exception is the two characters following "Case Western Reserve" which
are windows-1252 horizontal elipsis (...)

It is possible that something in Mailman's MimeDel (content filtering)
is misrepresenting the character set and causing utf-8 encoded text to
be declared as some other character set, but it could also be
something else. Do you have convert_html_to_plaintext set to Yes?

To diagnose this further, we need to see an original message as sent to
the list (e.g. a Bcc: of a list post) and the message as received from
the list. These need to be raw messages with all MIME headers intact.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  2 17:57:17 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 08:57:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting pending subscription request daily
In-Reply-To: <55be6e620703020656l4dbea15lbbf7fd17676d5b35@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703020857170718437b0d5f@msapiro>

Midhun Ramadas wrote:
>
>I am getting pending subscription request daily for my mailing list and when
>i go to Tend to pending requests, I am not finding anything.
>
>This happens daily.


The most common cause of this is multiple Mailman installations. I.e.
an 'old' or 'test' installation that still has cron running its daily
checkdbs job and reporting a pending request.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  2 18:05:36 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 09:05:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trapping messages with null subjects sent to
	list
In-Reply-To: <200703021603.l22G37bO006823@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703020905360796a03868c0@msapiro>

vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

>Is there a recipe to put in the spam filters that will trap a totally
>empty subject line in a message?   This get posted to a list with 
>(no subject) in the subject line, but this is evidently added after
>the spam filter check.  


Try the following regexp in header_filter_rules with a Hold action

^subject:\s*(\(no subject\))?\s*$

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  2 20:21:55 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:21:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime conversions - missing carriage returns
	andoddcharacters
In-Reply-To: <45E867B9.3050104@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070302112155029600b3411f@msapiro>

Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> It is possible that something in Mailman's MimeDel (content filtering)
>> is misrepresenting the character set and causing utf-8 encoded text to
>> be declared as some other character set, but it could also be
>> something else. 
>
>Sounds like a fair enough assumption.  I guess that could also account 
>for the carriage returns not being evaluated properly?


I don't think so, but I can't be sure.


>> Do you have convert_html_to_plaintext set to Yes?
>>   
>
>Affirmative, I do.


Based on what I see, I don't think that is the problem.


>> To diagnose this further, we need to see an original message as sent to
>> the list (e.g. a Bcc: of a list post) and the message as received from
>> the list. These need to be raw messages with all MIME headers intact.
>>
>>   
>
>Following is an original message as sent to the list, before being 
>munged by MimeDel:
>
>########################################################################################
>
<Received: headers snipped>
>  From: someaoluser at aol.com
>  Message-ID: <2d3.3f8b576.313c8b61 at aol.com>
>  Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:43:45 EST
>  Subject: Re: [somelist] Building the Field of O.D. into a Profession
>  To: list-of-users at domains.com
>  CC: otheruser at otherdomain.org
>  MIME-Version: 1.0
>  Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
>boundary="-----------------------------1141584225"
>  X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022
<X-Spam-* headers snipped>
> 
> 
>  Dear David,


This is incomplete. You have copied the message headers, and then
apparently the body as displayed by your mail client. I.e., the
message is multipart/alternative, but I don't see any part headers for
the alternative parts and I only see one body part.

<snip>

>########################################################################################
>
>Here is that same message as received by the list, after being munged by 
>MimeDel:
>
>########################################################################################
>
<Received: headers snipped>
>From: someaoluser at aol.com
>Message-ID: <2d3.3f8b576.313c8b61 at aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:43:45 EST
>To: list-of-users at domains.com
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022
>X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8
>Cc: otheruser at otherdomain.org
>Subject: Re: [somelist] Building the Field of O.D. into a Profession
>X-BeenThere: somelist at lists.company.org
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8
>Precedence: list
>List-Id: Our email discussion for the godparents of our field
>         <somelist.lists.company.org>
>List-Unsubscribe: < http://lists.company.org/mailman/listinfo/somelist>,
>         < mailto:somelist-request at lists.company.org?subject=unsubscribe >
>List-Archive: < http://lists.company.org/mailman/private/somelist>
>List-Post: < mailto:somelist at lists.company.org>
>List-Help: < mailto:somelist-request at lists.company.org?subject=help>
>List-Subscribe: < http://lists.company.org/mailman/listinfo/somelist>,
>         < mailto:somelist-request at lists.company.org?subject=subscribe >
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>Sender: somelist-bounces at lists.company.org
>Errors-To: somelist-bounces at lists.company.org
<X-Spam-* headers snipped>
>
>  Dear  David, Thank you for your reply. Starting back in 1981  when I 
<snip>
>re-writing what became ?EURoeThe International O.D. Code  of 
>Ethics?EUR?. It is based on comments from key O.D. people  from all over 
<snip>
>
>########################################################################################


Here I may be seeing the whole message. It contains some possibly
garbled utf-8 characters, but the Content-Type: header identifies it
as utf-8 characher set, so I suspect your mail client is not properly
rendering utf-8.

It looks like (I can't be certain because these aren't the raw
messages) Mailman has done the normal thing which is select the
text/plain alternative and replace the multipart/alternative message
body with a body consisting only of the text/plain part. I really need
to see the full raw source of the original message to the list (the
first message above). I.e., what you see when you select View->Message
Source in Thunderbird.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From casterln at nature.Berkeley.EDU  Fri Mar  2 20:55:44 2007
From: casterln at nature.Berkeley.EDU (Gary Casterline)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:55:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate subscription problem
Message-ID: <20070302195544.GA24996@nature.Berkeley.EDU>

Somehow, I find an address subscribed to a list twice
with a slight case difference.

 # ../../bin/dumpdb config.pck | grep -i sudden
      'fireworn at suddenlink.net': 'en',
      'fireworn at Suddenlink.net': 0,
      'fireworn at suddenlink.net': 0,
      'fireworn at suddenlink.net': 'xxxxxxxxx',
      'fireworn at suddenlink.net': 264,

I think if I could clean up that line with fireworn at Suddenlink.net
from the config.pck file, I'd be ok.  Is there a procedure
for editing a config.pck file?

More info:

The web interface shows two subscribers, both with lowercase
S in suddenlink.net.  bin/findmembers only shows one of the
addresses.  If I use bin/remove_members, I'm left with a broken
list, in that I cannot list any members anymore.

Here is what I get from the disabled cronjob:

/opt/bin/python -S /opt/mailman/cron/disabled

produced the following output:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/opt/mailman/cron/disabled", line 220, in ?
    main()
  File "/opt/mailman/cron/disabled", line 176, in main
    members = mlist.getDeliveryStatusMembers(who)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 158, in getDeliveryStatusMembers
    return [member for member in self.getMembers()
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 139, in getDeliveryStatus
    self.__assertIsMember(member)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in __assertIsMember
    raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: fireworn at Suddenlink.net

This is mailman-2.1.9

Any help or pointers appreciated.

Thanks,

 _Gary

From steele at agora-net.com  Fri Mar  2 21:57:13 2007
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:57:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime conversions - missing carriage returns
	andoddcharacters
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070302112155029600b3411f@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070302112155029600b3411f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45E88FA9.1050209@agora-net.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ryan Steele wrote:
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>     
>>> It is possible that something in Mailman's MimeDel (content filtering)
>>> is misrepresenting the character set and causing utf-8 encoded text to
>>> be declared as some other character set, but it could also be
>>> something else. 
>>>       
>> Sounds like a fair enough assumption.  I guess that could also account 
>> for the carriage returns not being evaluated properly?
>>     
>
>
> I don't think so, but I can't be sure.
>
>
>   
>>> Do you have convert_html_to_plaintext set to Yes?
>>>   
>>>       
>> Affirmative, I do.
>>     
>
>
> Based on what I see, I don't think that is the problem.
>
>
>   
>>> To diagnose this further, we need to see an original message as sent to
>>> the list (e.g. a Bcc: of a list post) and the message as received from
>>> the list. These need to be raw messages with all MIME headers intact.
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> Following is an original message as sent to the list, before being 
>> munged by MimeDel:
>>
>> ########################################################################################
>>
>>     
> <Received: headers snipped>
>   
>>  From: someaoluser at aol.com
>>  Message-ID: <2d3.3f8b576.313c8b61 at aol.com>
>>  Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:43:45 EST
>>  Subject: Re: [somelist] Building the Field of O.D. into a Profession
>>  To: list-of-users at domains.com
>>  CC: otheruser at otherdomain.org
>>  MIME-Version: 1.0
>>  Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
>> boundary="-----------------------------1141584225"
>>  X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022
>>     
> <X-Spam-* headers snipped>
>   
>>  Dear David,
>>     
>
>
> This is incomplete. You have copied the message headers, and then
> apparently the body as displayed by your mail client. I.e., the
> message is multipart/alternative, but I don't see any part headers for
> the alternative parts and I only see one body part.
>
> <snip>
>
>   
>> ########################################################################################
>>
>> Here is that same message as received by the list, after being munged by 
>> MimeDel:
>>
>> ########################################################################################
>>
>>     
> <Received: headers snipped>
>   
>> From: someaoluser at aol.com
>> Message-ID: <2d3.3f8b576.313c8b61 at aol.com>
>> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:43:45 EST
>> To: list-of-users at domains.com
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022
>> X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8
>> Cc: otheruser at otherdomain.org
>> Subject: Re: [somelist] Building the Field of O.D. into a Profession
>> X-BeenThere: somelist at lists.company.org
>> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8
>> Precedence: list
>> List-Id: Our email discussion for the godparents of our field
>>         <somelist.lists.company.org>
>> List-Unsubscribe: < http://lists.company.org/mailman/listinfo/somelist>,
>>         < mailto:somelist-request at lists.company.org?subject=unsubscribe >
>> List-Archive: < http://lists.company.org/mailman/private/somelist>
>> List-Post: < mailto:somelist at lists.company.org>
>> List-Help: < mailto:somelist-request at lists.company.org?subject=help>
>> List-Subscribe: < http://lists.company.org/mailman/listinfo/somelist>,
>>         < mailto:somelist-request at lists.company.org?subject=subscribe >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> Sender: somelist-bounces at lists.company.org
>> Errors-To: somelist-bounces at lists.company.org
>>     
> <X-Spam-* headers snipped>
>   
>>  Dear  David, Thank you for your reply. Starting back in 1981  when I 
>>     
> <snip>
>   
>> re-writing what became ?EURoeThe International O.D. Code  of 
>> Ethics?EUR?. It is based on comments from key O.D. people  from all over 
>>     
> <snip>
>   
>> ########################################################################################
>>     
>
>
> Here I may be seeing the whole message. It contains some possibly
> garbled utf-8 characters, but the Content-Type: header identifies it
> as utf-8 characher set, so I suspect your mail client is not properly
> rendering utf-8.
>
> It looks like (I can't be certain because these aren't the raw
> messages) Mailman has done the normal thing which is select the
> text/plain alternative and replace the multipart/alternative message
> body with a body consisting only of the text/plain part. I really need
> to see the full raw source of the original message to the list (the
> first message above). I.e., what you see when you select View->Message
> Source in Thunderbird.
>
>   

I appreciate your continued help on this Mark.  I apologize about the 
pre-garbled message - I simply copied it from the information I 
requested from the client without checking to see that it contained part 
boundaries within the body as well.  I'm not even sure it's possible in 
Outlook to get this information (I researched/looked for a little while 
to no avail), so I'm going to set up an Outlook installation, mimicking 
the UTF-8 stuff, and send it to a test list I've got and my own personal 
account, which is set up using Thunderbird.  Then I can just ctrl+u to 
get the message source pre-garbling.  I'll post to the list once I've 
got this all set up.  Thanks!

Ryan

-- 
Ryan Steele                         
Systems Administrator               steele at agora-net.com
AgoraNet, Inc.                      (302) 224-2475
314 E. Main Street, Suite 1         (302) 224-2552 (fax)
Newark, DE 19711                    http://www.agora-net.com


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  2 22:21:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:21:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate subscription problem
In-Reply-To: <20070302195544.GA24996@nature.Berkeley.EDU>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030213213707349e046883@msapiro>

Gary Casterline wrote:
>
> # ../../bin/dumpdb config.pck | grep -i sudden
>      'fireworn at suddenlink.net': 'en',
languages

>      'fireworn at Suddenlink.net': 0,
bogus entry in members list.

>      'fireworn at suddenlink.net': 0,
members

>      'fireworn at suddenlink.net': 'xxxxxxxxx',
passwords

>      'fireworn at suddenlink.net': 264,
user_options

>
>I think if I could clean up that line with fireworn at Suddenlink.net
>from the config.pck file, I'd be ok.  Is there a procedure
>for editing a config.pck file?


I don't know how the bogus entry got in the members dictionary, but it
is definitely bogus. These entries MUST have an all lower case address
as the key, and if the value is zero as here, that is also the
case-preserved address. Otherwise the value is the case-preserved
address.

You get rid of the bogus entry with bin/withlist.

bin/withlist -l listname
Loading list listname (locked)
The variable `m' is the listname MailList instance
>>> del m.members['fireworn at Suddenlink.net']
>>> m.Save()
>>>
Unlocking (but not saving) list: list1
Finalizing


>>> is the Python prompt. You type the indicated things on those lines. The last entry is a control-D (end of file). Be sure to type the address with the capital 'S' or you'll make things worse, and don't forget the m.Save().

I agree that this will fix your problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  2 22:29:33 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:29:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime conversions - missing carriage returns
	andoddcharacters
In-Reply-To: <45E88FA9.1050209@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703021329330671099c5680@msapiro>

Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>I'm not even sure it's possible in 
>Outlook to get this information (I researched/looked for a little while 
>to no avail)

In Outlook Express, you get the message properties from the File menu
or by right-clicking the message in the list of messages pane and
selecting properties. In the properties dialog, there is a details tab
and on that, a 'message source' button.

I'm sure it's not exactly like that in Outlook, but it's something
similar.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From steele at agora-net.com  Fri Mar  2 22:37:11 2007
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 16:37:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime conversions - missing carriage returns
	andoddcharacters
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703021329330671099c5680@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200703021329330671099c5680@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45E89907.7020209@agora-net.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ryan Steele wrote:
>   
>> I'm not even sure it's possible in 
>> Outlook to get this information (I researched/looked for a little while 
>> to no avail)
>>     
>
> In Outlook Express, you get the message properties from the File menu
> or by right-clicking the message in the list of messages pane and
> selecting properties. In the properties dialog, there is a details tab
> and on that, a 'message source' button.
>
> I'm sure it's not exactly like that in Outlook, but it's something
> similar.
>
>   
Mark,

It appears the client who got a copy of the pre-garbled message uses 
Eudora (I didn't know people still used Eudora ^_^), so I've sent him 
some instructions on how to go about getting the message source from it, 
and will post back accordingly.  Again, thank you for your help!

Best Regards,
Ryan

-- 
Ryan Steele                         
Systems Administrator               steele at agora-net.com
AgoraNet, Inc.                      (302) 224-2475
314 E. Main Street, Suite 1         (302) 224-2552 (fax)
Newark, DE 19711                    http://www.agora-net.com


From CDay at mindshare.net  Fri Mar  2 22:55:54 2007
From: CDay at mindshare.net (Chad Day)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:55:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting nomail from command line?
Message-ID: <2DC39454007A9442A0CFCFE23AF50D21E68C13@MNDSRDC017710.mindshare.net>

I can't seem to find this, when I search for nomail via the searchable
archives it's returning me an error page.  So here I am.

 

I want to be able to add members and set their nomail flag on from the
command line .. adding the member, yeah, no problem.  But there's no
nomail option that I see in the help text for the script, and I can't
seem to find another way of changing this from the command line, only a
web interface.

 

I'm sure this has to have been asked before and if I could kindly be
pointed in the right direction, it would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks!

Chad Day, Developer
Mindshare Interactive Campaigns, LLC 
108 5th Street SE, Suite 307
Charlottesville, VA 22902
tel 202.654.0835 fax 202.318.0755
www.mindshare.net <BLOCKED::http://www.mindshare.net/> 

 


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Mar  2 23:00:29 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:00:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime conversions - missing carriage returns
 andoddcharacters
In-Reply-To: <45E89907.7020209@agora-net.com>
References: <PC1760200703021329330671099c5680@msapiro>
	<45E89907.7020209@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <p06240505c20e4e82dbc0@[10.0.1.201]>

At 4:37 PM -0500 3/2/07, Ryan Steele wrote:

>  It appears the client who got a copy of the pre-garbled message uses
>  Eudora (I didn't know people still used Eudora ^_^),

I've been using Eudora since the version 1.x days.

>                                                       so I've sent him
>  some instructions on how to go about getting the message source from it,

With the message open in a separate window, click on the 
"Blahblahblah" icon (it really does say that), and that will show you 
all the headers and the full message structure.  From there, you 
should be able to cut-n-paste the message precisely as it was 
received, with everything intact.

>  and will post back accordingly.  Again, thank you for your help!

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From atodd at leightronix.com  Fri Mar  2 22:30:13 2007
From: atodd at leightronix.com (Aaron Todd)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 16:30:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Configuration Files
Message-ID: <45E89765.6010506@leightronix.com>

Hello,

I manage about ten different lists that all need to have almost the 
exact set of settings.  The main difference between each one is the 
name.  Is there a configuration file for each list that I can compare 
rather than comparing the settings of each web page in the admin interface.
-- 
Aaron Todd
*
*


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  2 23:39:08 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 14:39:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting nomail from command line?
In-Reply-To: <2DC39454007A9442A0CFCFE23AF50D21E68C13@MNDSRDC017710.mindshare.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703021439080953c0824ea1@msapiro>

Chad Day wrote:

>I can't seem to find this, when I search for nomail via the searchable
>archives it's returning me an error page.  So here I am.


The search at <http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/>
appears to be broken. This was mentioned a while back on this list. I
don't know if it is 'still broken' or 'broken again' because I don't
use it. I use google with 'site:mail.python.org' and
'inurl:mailman-users' to search the archives of this list (see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>
which recommends a slightly different search tag that also works).


>I want to be able to add members and set their nomail flag on from the
>command line .. adding the member, yeah, no problem.  But there's no
>nomail option that I see in the help text for the script, and I can't
>seem to find another way of changing this from the command line, only a
>web interface.


See the set_nomail.py withlist script at
<http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/> (mirror
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/>).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  2 23:42:17 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 14:42:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Configuration Files
In-Reply-To: <45E89765.6010506@leightronix.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703021442170578c0824d33@msapiro>

Aaron Todd wrote:
>
>I manage about ten different lists that all need to have almost the 
>exact set of settings.  The main difference between each one is the 
>name.  Is there a configuration file for each list that I can compare 
>rather than comparing the settings of each web page in the admin interface.


You can compare the outputs from 'bin/config_list -o' and you can use
this output with the list specific stuff removed as input to
'bin/config_list -i' to configure another list.

See 'bin/config_list --help'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From john at wa9als.com  Sat Mar  3 03:44:50 2007
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 21:44:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
References: <PC1760200703020815540593221727a7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <009d01c75d3d$eaebd220$0201a8c0@wa9als>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "John Fleming" <john at wa9als.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page


> John Fleming wrote:
>
>>Never seen this before - When visiting mailman listinfo web page, I get:
>>
>>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
>>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
>>the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>>
>>- and my lists aren't working.  Restarting qrunner or rebooting (!) don't
>>help.  Anything stand out to you in the error log below?  pid file 
>>missing??
>>How would that happen?  Any help for this newbie would be greatly
>>appreciated!  Thanks - John
>
>
> It appears that the config.pck file for at least one list is corrupt.
>
> Try running
>
> bin/dumpdb lists/<listname>/config.pck
>
> for all your lists. If you find one that looks like things are missing,
> try
>
> bin/dumpdb -p lists/<listname>/config.pck.last
>
> for that list. If the config.pck.last looks OK (it probably won't), you
> can do
>
> cp lists/<listname>/config.pck.last lists/<listname>/config.pck
>
> for that list. Otherwise, I hope you have a recent backup.

The .pck files are OK.  My lists are working again after -another- qrunner 
restart and nothing else changed.  However, there's still a problem.  I can 
view any individual list's information via the usual web pages 
(www.domain.name/mailman/listinfo/<listname>), but I get the "We hit a bug" 
page when I try to view the lists -overview- page for any of my domains. 
Here's the error log entry for when I try. Does anyone see what's wrong? 
This used to work, and  I haven't changed anything in my configuration. 
(Mailman 2.1.5 Debian Stable) Thanks - John

Mar 02 21:35:33 2007 admin(18864): 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(18864): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
admin(18864): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(18864): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(18864):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in 
run_main
admin(18864):     main()
admin(18864):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 42, in 
main
admin(18864):     listinfo_overview()
admin(18864):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 88, in 
listinfo_overview
admin(18864):     if mlist.advertised:
admin(18864):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in 
__getattr__
admin(18864):     raise AttributeError, name
admin(18864): AttributeError: advertised
admin(18864): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(18864): sys.version     =   2.3.5 (#2, Oct 16 2006, 19:19:48)
[GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-13)]
admin(18864): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(18864): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(18864): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(18864): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(18864): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(18864): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(18864):  SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.33 (Debian GNU/Linux) 
PHP/4.3.10-18 mod_ssl/2.8.22 OpenSSL/0.9.7e
admin(18864):  SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo
admin(18864):  SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.33 Server at wa9als.com 
Port 443</ADDRESS>
admin(18864):
admin(18864):  REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(18864):  SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(18864):  QUERY_STRING:
admin(18864):  HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 
NT 5.1; SV1)
admin(18864):  HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
admin(18864):  SERVER_NAME: wa9als.com
admin(18864):  REMOTE_ADDR: 64.105.150.50
admin(18864):  SERVER_PORT: 443
admin(18864):  SERVER_ADDR: 64.105.150.51
admin(18864):  DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/wa9als/www/
admin(18864):  PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
admin(18864):  SCRIPT_FILENAME: /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin//listinfo
admin(18864):  SERVER_ADMIN: john at wa9als.com
admin(18864):  HTTP_HOST: wa9als.com
admin(18864):  HTTPS: on
admin(18864):  REQUEST_URI: /mailman/listinfo
admin(18864):  HTTP_ACCEPT: */*
admin(18864):  nokeepalive: 1
admin(18864):  GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(18864):  REMOTE_PORT: 33765
admin(18864):  HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us
admin(18864):  ssl_unclean_shutdown: 1
admin(18864):  HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate

and just before the above (when I wasn't even home), I see:

Mar 02 21:06:00 2007 admin(18250): 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(18250): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
admin(18250): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(18250): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(18250): File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in run_main
admin(18250): main()
admin(18250): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 42, in 
main
admin(18250): listinfo_overview()
admin(18250): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 88, in 
listinfo_overview
admin(18250): if mlist.advertised:
admin(18250): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in 
__getattr__
admin(18250): raise AttributeError, name
admin(18250): AttributeError: advertised
admin(18250): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(18250): sys.version = 2.3.5 (#2, Oct 16 2006, 19:19:48)
[GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-13)]
admin(18250): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python
admin(18250): sys.prefix = /usr
admin(18250): sys.exec_prefix = /usr
admin(18250): sys.path = /usr
admin(18250): sys.platform = linux2
admin(18250): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(18250): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.33 (Debian GNU/Linux) 
PHP/4.3.10-18 mod_ssl/2.8.22 OpenSSL/0.9.7e
admin(18250): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo
admin(18250): SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.33 Server at wa9als.com 
Port 80</ADDRESS>
admin(18250):
admin(18250): REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(18250): SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(18250): QUERY_STRING:
admin(18250): HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 
5.1; SV1)
admin(18250): HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
admin(18250): SERVER_NAME: wa9als.com
admin(18250): REMOTE_ADDR: 64.105.150.50
admin(18250): SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(18250): SERVER_ADDR: 64.105.150.51
admin(18250): DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/wa9als/www/
admin(18250): PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
admin(18250): SCRIPT_FILENAME: /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin//listinfo
admin(18250): SERVER_ADMIN: john at wa9als.com
admin(18250): HTTP_HOST: wa9als.com
admin(18250): REQUEST_URI: /mailman/listinfo
admin(18250): HTTP_ACCEPT: */*
admin(18250): GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(18250): REMOTE_PORT: 33340
admin(18250): HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us
admin(18250): HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate 


From dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us  Sat Mar  3 04:04:04 2007
From: dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us (dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 22:04:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
In-Reply-To: <009d01c75d3d$eaebd220$0201a8c0@wa9als>
References: <PC1760200703020815540593221727a7@msapiro>
	<009d01c75d3d$eaebd220$0201a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <20070302220404.0zpbafwsg0gcokcs@mail.harrisonburg.k12.va.us>

Quoting John Fleming <john at wa9als.com>:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
> To: "John Fleming" <john at wa9als.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 11:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
>
>
>> John Fleming wrote:
>>
>>> Never seen this before - When visiting mailman listinfo web page, I get:
>>>
>>> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
>>> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>>> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>>> traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
>>> the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>>>
>>> - and my lists aren't working.  Restarting qrunner or rebooting (!) don't
>>> help.  Anything stand out to you in the error log below?  pid file
>>> missing??
>>> How would that happen?  Any help for this newbie would be greatly
>>> appreciated!  Thanks - John
>>
>>
>> It appears that the config.pck file for at least one list is corrupt.
>>
>> Try running
>>
>> bin/dumpdb lists/<listname>/config.pck
>>
>> for all your lists. If you find one that looks like things are missing,
>> try
>>
>> bin/dumpdb -p lists/<listname>/config.pck.last
>>
>> for that list. If the config.pck.last looks OK (it probably won't), you
>> can do
>>
>> cp lists/<listname>/config.pck.last lists/<listname>/config.pck
>>
>> for that list. Otherwise, I hope you have a recent backup.
>
> The .pck files are OK.  My lists are working again after -another- qrunner
> restart and nothing else changed.  However, there's still a problem.  I can
> view any individual list's information via the usual web pages
> (www.domain.name/mailman/listinfo/<listname>), but I get the "We hit a bug"
> page when I try to view the lists -overview- page for any of my domains.
> Here's the error log entry for when I try. Does anyone see what's wrong?
> This used to work, and  I haven't changed anything in my configuration.
> (Mailman 2.1.5 Debian Stable) Thanks - John
>
> Mar 02 21:35:33 2007 admin(18864):
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> admin(18864): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
> admin(18864): [----- Traceback ------]
> admin(18864): Traceback (most recent call last):
> admin(18864):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in
> run_main
> admin(18864):     main()
> admin(18864):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 42, in
> main
> admin(18864):     listinfo_overview()
> admin(18864):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 88, in
> listinfo_overview
> admin(18864):     if mlist.advertised:
> admin(18864):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in
> __getattr__
> admin(18864):     raise AttributeError, name
> admin(18864): AttributeError: advertised
> admin(18864): [----- Python Information -----]
> admin(18864): sys.version     =   2.3.5 (#2, Oct 16 2006, 19:19:48)
> [GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-13)]
> admin(18864): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
> admin(18864): sys.prefix      =   /usr
> admin(18864): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
> admin(18864): sys.path        =   /usr
> admin(18864): sys.platform    =   linux2
> admin(18864): [----- Environment Variables -----]
> admin(18864):  SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.33 (Debian GNU/Linux)
> PHP/4.3.10-18 mod_ssl/2.8.22 OpenSSL/0.9.7e
> admin(18864):  SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo
> admin(18864):  SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.33 Server at wa9als.com
> Port 443</ADDRESS>
> admin(18864):
> admin(18864):  REQUEST_METHOD: GET
> admin(18864):  SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
> admin(18864):  QUERY_STRING:
> admin(18864):  HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows
> NT 5.1; SV1)
> admin(18864):  HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
> admin(18864):  SERVER_NAME: wa9als.com
> admin(18864):  REMOTE_ADDR: 64.105.150.50
> admin(18864):  SERVER_PORT: 443
> admin(18864):  SERVER_ADDR: 64.105.150.51
> admin(18864):  DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/wa9als/www/
> admin(18864):  PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
> admin(18864):  SCRIPT_FILENAME: /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin//listinfo
> admin(18864):  SERVER_ADMIN: john at wa9als.com
> admin(18864):  HTTP_HOST: wa9als.com
> admin(18864):  HTTPS: on
> admin(18864):  REQUEST_URI: /mailman/listinfo
> admin(18864):  HTTP_ACCEPT: */*
> admin(18864):  nokeepalive: 1
> admin(18864):  GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
> admin(18864):  REMOTE_PORT: 33765
> admin(18864):  HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us
> admin(18864):  ssl_unclean_shutdown: 1
> admin(18864):  HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate
>
> and just before the above (when I wasn't even home), I see:
>
> Mar 02 21:06:00 2007 admin(18250):
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> admin(18250): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
> admin(18250): [----- Traceback ------]
> admin(18250): Traceback (most recent call last):
> admin(18250): File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in run_main
> admin(18250): main()
> admin(18250): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 42, in
> main
> admin(18250): listinfo_overview()
> admin(18250): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 88, in
> listinfo_overview
> admin(18250): if mlist.advertised:
> admin(18250): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in
> __getattr__
> admin(18250): raise AttributeError, name
> admin(18250): AttributeError: advertised
> admin(18250): [----- Python Information -----]
> admin(18250): sys.version = 2.3.5 (#2, Oct 16 2006, 19:19:48)
> [GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-13)]
> admin(18250): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python
> admin(18250): sys.prefix = /usr
> admin(18250): sys.exec_prefix = /usr
> admin(18250): sys.path = /usr
> admin(18250): sys.platform = linux2
> admin(18250): [----- Environment Variables -----]
> admin(18250): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.33 (Debian GNU/Linux)
> PHP/4.3.10-18 mod_ssl/2.8.22 OpenSSL/0.9.7e
> admin(18250): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo
> admin(18250): SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.33 Server at wa9als.com
> Port 80</ADDRESS>
> admin(18250):
> admin(18250): REQUEST_METHOD: GET
> admin(18250): SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
> admin(18250): QUERY_STRING:
> admin(18250): HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT
> 5.1; SV1)
> admin(18250): HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
> admin(18250): SERVER_NAME: wa9als.com
> admin(18250): REMOTE_ADDR: 64.105.150.50
> admin(18250): SERVER_PORT: 80
> admin(18250): SERVER_ADDR: 64.105.150.51
> admin(18250): DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/wa9als/www/
> admin(18250): PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
> admin(18250): SCRIPT_FILENAME: /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin//listinfo
> admin(18250): SERVER_ADMIN: john at wa9als.com
> admin(18250): HTTP_HOST: wa9als.com
> admin(18250): REQUEST_URI: /mailman/listinfo
> admin(18250): HTTP_ACCEPT: */*
> admin(18250): GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
> admin(18250): REMOTE_PORT: 33340
> admin(18250): HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us
> admin(18250): HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:   
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dhottinger%40harrisonburg.k12.va.us
>
> Security Policy:   
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
Does mailman own those directory's?  I seem to remember seeing a  
similiar issue on the list.


-- 
Dwayne Hottinger
Network Administrator
Harrisonburg City Public Schools


From john at wa9als.com  Sat Mar  3 04:08:01 2007
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 22:08:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
References: <PC1760200703020815540593221727a7@msapiro><009d01c75d3d$eaebd220$0201a8c0@wa9als>
	<20070302220404.0zpbafwsg0gcokcs@mail.harrisonburg.k12.va.us>
Message-ID: <00e301c75d41$285cb450$0201a8c0@wa9als>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page


> Quoting John Fleming <john at wa9als.com>:
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
>> To: "John Fleming" <john at wa9als.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 11:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
>>
>>
>>> John Fleming wrote:
>>>
>>>> Never seen this before - When visiting mailman listinfo web page, I 
>>>> get:
>>>>
>>>> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
>>>> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>>>> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>>>> traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, 
>>>> but
>>>> the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>>>>
>>>> - and my lists aren't working.  Restarting qrunner or rebooting (!) 
>>>> don't
>>>> help.  Anything stand out to you in the error log below?  pid file
>>>> missing??
>>>> How would that happen?  Any help for this newbie would be greatly
>>>> appreciated!  Thanks - John
>>>
>>>
>>> It appears that the config.pck file for at least one list is corrupt.
>>>
>>> Try running
>>>
>>> bin/dumpdb lists/<listname>/config.pck
>>>
>>> for all your lists. If you find one that looks like things are missing,
>>> try
>>>
>>> bin/dumpdb -p lists/<listname>/config.pck.last
>>>
>>> for that list. If the config.pck.last looks OK (it probably won't), you
>>> can do
>>>
>>> cp lists/<listname>/config.pck.last lists/<listname>/config.pck
>>>
>>> for that list. Otherwise, I hope you have a recent backup.
>>
>> The .pck files are OK.  My lists are working again after -another- 
>> qrunner
>> restart and nothing else changed.  However, there's still a problem.  I 
>> can
>> view any individual list's information via the usual web pages
>> (www.domain.name/mailman/listinfo/<listname>), but I get the "We hit a 
>> bug"
>> page when I try to view the lists -overview- page for any of my domains.
>> Here's the error log entry for when I try. Does anyone see what's wrong?
>> This used to work, and  I haven't changed anything in my configuration.
>> (Mailman 2.1.5 Debian Stable) Thanks - John
>>
>> Mar 02 21:35:33 2007 admin(18864):
>> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>> admin(18864): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
>> admin(18864): [----- Traceback ------]
>> admin(18864): Traceback (most recent call last):
>> admin(18864):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in
>> run_main
>> admin(18864):     main()
>> admin(18864):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 42, 
>> in
>> main
>> admin(18864):     listinfo_overview()
>> admin(18864):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 88, 
>> in
>> listinfo_overview
>> admin(18864):     if mlist.advertised:
>> admin(18864):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in
>> __getattr__
>> admin(18864):     raise AttributeError, name
>> admin(18864): AttributeError: advertised
>> admin(18864): [----- Python Information -----]
>> admin(18864): sys.version     =   2.3.5 (#2, Oct 16 2006, 19:19:48)
>> [GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-13)]
>> admin(18864): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
>> admin(18864): sys.prefix      =   /usr
>> admin(18864): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
>> admin(18864): sys.path        =   /usr
>> admin(18864): sys.platform    =   linux2
>> admin(18864): [----- Environment Variables -----]
>> admin(18864):  SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.33 (Debian GNU/Linux)
>> PHP/4.3.10-18 mod_ssl/2.8.22 OpenSSL/0.9.7e
>> admin(18864):  SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo
>> admin(18864):  SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.33 Server at 
>> wa9als.com
>> Port 443</ADDRESS>
>> admin(18864):
>> admin(18864):  REQUEST_METHOD: GET
>> admin(18864):  SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
>> admin(18864):  QUERY_STRING:
>> admin(18864):  HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; 
>> Windows
>> NT 5.1; SV1)
>> admin(18864):  HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
>> admin(18864):  SERVER_NAME: wa9als.com
>> admin(18864):  REMOTE_ADDR: 64.105.150.50
>> admin(18864):  SERVER_PORT: 443
>> admin(18864):  SERVER_ADDR: 64.105.150.51
>> admin(18864):  DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/wa9als/www/
>> admin(18864):  PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
>> admin(18864):  SCRIPT_FILENAME: /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin//listinfo
>> admin(18864):  SERVER_ADMIN: john at wa9als.com
>> admin(18864):  HTTP_HOST: wa9als.com
>> admin(18864):  HTTPS: on
>> admin(18864):  REQUEST_URI: /mailman/listinfo
>> admin(18864):  HTTP_ACCEPT: */*
>> admin(18864):  nokeepalive: 1
>> admin(18864):  GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
>> admin(18864):  REMOTE_PORT: 33765
>> admin(18864):  HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us
>> admin(18864):  ssl_unclean_shutdown: 1
>> admin(18864):  HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate
>>
>> and just before the above (when I wasn't even home), I see:
>>
>> Mar 02 21:06:00 2007 admin(18250):
>> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>> admin(18250): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
>> admin(18250): [----- Traceback ------]
>> admin(18250): Traceback (most recent call last):
>> admin(18250): File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in 
>> run_main
>> admin(18250): main()
>> admin(18250): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 42, 
>> in
>> main
>> admin(18250): listinfo_overview()
>> admin(18250): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 88, 
>> in
>> listinfo_overview
>> admin(18250): if mlist.advertised:
>> admin(18250): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in
>> __getattr__
>> admin(18250): raise AttributeError, name
>> admin(18250): AttributeError: advertised
>> admin(18250): [----- Python Information -----]
>> admin(18250): sys.version = 2.3.5 (#2, Oct 16 2006, 19:19:48)
>> [GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-13)]
>> admin(18250): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python
>> admin(18250): sys.prefix = /usr
>> admin(18250): sys.exec_prefix = /usr
>> admin(18250): sys.path = /usr
>> admin(18250): sys.platform = linux2
>> admin(18250): [----- Environment Variables -----]
>> admin(18250): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.33 (Debian GNU/Linux)
>> PHP/4.3.10-18 mod_ssl/2.8.22 OpenSSL/0.9.7e
>> admin(18250): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo
>> admin(18250): SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.33 Server at 
>> wa9als.com
>> Port 80</ADDRESS>
>> admin(18250):
>> admin(18250): REQUEST_METHOD: GET
>> admin(18250): SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
>> admin(18250): QUERY_STRING:
>> admin(18250): HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 
>> NT
>> 5.1; SV1)
>> admin(18250): HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
>> admin(18250): SERVER_NAME: wa9als.com
>> admin(18250): REMOTE_ADDR: 64.105.150.50
>> admin(18250): SERVER_PORT: 80
>> admin(18250): SERVER_ADDR: 64.105.150.51
>> admin(18250): DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/wa9als/www/
>> admin(18250): PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
>> admin(18250): SCRIPT_FILENAME: /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin//listinfo
>> admin(18250): SERVER_ADMIN: john at wa9als.com
>> admin(18250): HTTP_HOST: wa9als.com
>> admin(18250): REQUEST_URI: /mailman/listinfo
>> admin(18250): HTTP_ACCEPT: */*
>> admin(18250): GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
>> admin(18250): REMOTE_PORT: 33340
>> admin(18250): HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us
>> admin(18250): HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dhottinger%40harrisonburg.k12.va.us
>>
>> Security Policy:
>> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>>
> Does mailman own those directory's?  I seem to remember seeing a
> similiar issue on the list.

"list" does. 


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  3 04:08:33 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:08:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
In-Reply-To: <009d01c75d3d$eaebd220$0201a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703021908330265a85baf8a@msapiro>

John Fleming wrote:
>
>The .pck files are OK.  My lists are working again after -another- qrunner 
>restart and nothing else changed.  However, there's still a problem.  I can 
>view any individual list's information via the usual web pages 
>(www.domain.name/mailman/listinfo/<listname>), but I get the "We hit a bug" 
>page when I try to view the lists -overview- page for any of my domains. 
>Here's the error log entry for when I try. Does anyone see what's wrong? 
>This used to work, and  I haven't changed anything in my configuration. 
>(Mailman 2.1.5 Debian Stable) Thanks - John
>
>Mar 02 21:35:33 2007 admin(18864): 
>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>admin(18864): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
>admin(18864): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(18864): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(18864):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in 
>run_main
>admin(18864):     main()
>admin(18864):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 42, in 
>main
>admin(18864):     listinfo_overview()
>admin(18864):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 88, in 
>listinfo_overview
>admin(18864):     if mlist.advertised:
>admin(18864):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in 
>__getattr__
>admin(18864):     raise AttributeError, name
>admin(18864): AttributeError: advertised


You have one list whose saved state in config.pck does not have an
'advertised' attribute.

Try the following shell script

#! /bin/sh
for list in `/path/to/bin/list_lists --bare`
do echo ----------------------------------
echo list: $list
/path/to/bin/dumpdb /path/to/lists/$list/config.pck | grep advertised
echo -----------------------------------
done


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  3 04:17:43 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:17:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703021908330265a85baf8a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703021917430640a85bb10b@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Try the following shell script
>
>#! /bin/sh
>for list in `/path/to/bin/list_lists --bare`
>do echo ----------------------------------
>echo list: $list
>/path/to/bin/dumpdb /path/to/lists/$list/config.pck | grep advertised
>echo -----------------------------------
>done


BTW, this will only identify the problem list. If the only thing wrong
with it is the missing advertised attribute, you can fix it with
withlist.

bin/withlist -l listname
...
...
>>> m.advertised = 1
>>> m.Save()
>>>
...

The last input is control-D (eof). If the list should not be
advertised, then set m.advertised = 0.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From john at wa9als.com  Sat Mar  3 04:33:11 2007
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 22:33:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
References: <PC1760200703021917430640a85bb10b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <010001c75d44$ac8dc540$0201a8c0@wa9als>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "John Fleming" <john at wa9als.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page


> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>Try the following shell script
>>
>>#! /bin/sh
>>for list in `/path/to/bin/list_lists --bare`
>>do echo ----------------------------------
>>echo list: $list
>>/path/to/bin/dumpdb /path/to/lists/$list/config.pck | grep advertised
>>echo -----------------------------------
>>done
>
>
> BTW, this will only identify the problem list. If the only thing wrong
> with it is the missing advertised attribute, you can fix it with
> withlist.
>
> bin/withlist -l listname
> ...
> ...
>>>> m.advertised = 1
>>>> m.Save()
>>>>
> ...
>
> The last input is control-D (eof). If the list should not be
> advertised, then set m.advertised = 0.

1.  I must be doing something wrong - Running that script only gives me:

Luke:/var/lib/mailman# ./johntest <----- the script
sh-2.05b#

2.  There are other atribute errors in the log - I see name and language, to 
name 2.  (I haven't changed anything, so why are the atributes missing 
anyway?)

3.
Luke:/var/lib/mailman/bin# ./withlist -l sked
Loading list sked (locked)
The variable `m' is the sked MailList instance
>>>
Unlocking (but not saving) list: sked
Finalizing
Luke:/var/lib/mailman/bin#


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  3 05:11:53 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 20:11:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
In-Reply-To: <010001c75d44$ac8dc540$0201a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703022011530703a85bb154@msapiro>

John Fleming wrote:
>
>1.  I must be doing something wrong - Running that script only gives me:
>
>Luke:/var/lib/mailman# ./johntest <----- the script
>sh-2.05b#


Yes. something is wrong because apparently, bin/sh is trying to read
its input from the terminal instead of the script. What is the exact
contents of johntest? What if you run

  bin/sh ./johntest

instead?


>2.  There are other atribute errors in the log - I see name and language, to 
>name 2.  (I haven't changed anything, so why are the atributes missing 
>anyway?)


With any luck, it will only be one bad list. Once we identify which
one, we can wory about fixing it.

I have no idea how it got broken. Did you have a system crash? power
failure? some similar event?


>3.
>Luke:/var/lib/mailman/bin# ./withlist -l sked
>Loading list sked (locked)
>The variable `m' is the sked MailList instance
>>>>
>Unlocking (but not saving) list: sked
>Finalizing
>Luke:/var/lib/mailman/bin#


Before we start trying to do things with withlist, we need to identify
the list that has the problem. Once we figure that out, you can for
example do bin/dumpdb of that list's config.pck and compare it to
bin/dumpdb of some other list's config.pck and get an idea of how
badly it's messed up.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From john at wa9als.com  Sat Mar  3 11:04:59 2007
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 05:04:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
References: <PC1760200703022011530703a85bb154@msapiro>
Message-ID: <008e01c75d7b$6a14b110$0201a8c0@wa9als>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "John Fleming" <john at wa9als.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page


> John Fleming wrote:
>>
>>1.  I must be doing something wrong - Running that script only gives me:
>>
>>Luke:/var/lib/mailman# ./johntest <----- the script
>>sh-2.05b#
>
>
> Yes. something is wrong because apparently, bin/sh is trying to read
> its input from the terminal instead of the script. What is the exact
> contents of johntest? What if you run
>
>  bin/sh ./johntest
>
> instead?

Same thing as before.  Here's the script:

Luke:/var/lib/mailman# cat johntest
! /bin/sh
for list in `/var/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists --bare`
do echo ----------------------------------
echo list: $list
/var/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/$list/config.pck | grep 
advertised
echo -----------------------------------
doneLuke:/var/lib/mailman#

I don't know what I'm missing about running this script.  Looking through 
the .pck files manually, they all seem to have the attributes real_name, 
language, and advertised - things that appeared in the error log.  Some are 
advertised and some are not, but they all have that entry.

> I have no idea how it got broken. Did you have a system crash? power
> failure? some similar event?

No, really.  Server on UPS.  There could have been a brief burp, but 
UPS -should've- protected me from that.

I received an email from a list member that a list wasn't working.  I 
restarted qrunner to no avail, rebooted the server to no avail, and then 
restarted qrunner again and then the lists all started working again.  The 
"We hit a bug" webpage problem persisted throughout.

Thanks for your patience - really.  If I resort to my month-old backup, 
should I just replace the /lists directory?  - John


From mmitchell at wsi.com  Sat Mar  3 15:20:44 2007
From: mmitchell at wsi.com (Mitchell, Michael)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 09:20:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with mailman recieving posts
Message-ID: <8536F69C1FCC294B859D07B179F0694405CA6A9D@EXCHANGE.ad.wsicorp.com>


Hi we just migrated to a new server and moved the mailman lists over as described in the FAQ.  I am not the one who originally set it up and have never worked with mailman and sendmail before this.  Originally all the mails to the lists were being bounced by sendmail, that I solved through the FAQ also but now they seem to arrive in the queue but go no where.  If it was posting the messages to the lists then I would suspect something wrong with sendmail but that is not the issue.  The alias files are all accurate and I can see them being referenced but no posting.  Upon switching back to the old server all the emails that had been sent made it out by way of the *-bounce (media-all-bounce at nuttfield.wsicorp.com).  This has confused me and I am not sure where to go from here, I would greatly appriciate a nudge in the right direction.

Thank you,
Michael Mitchell

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  3 15:43:07 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 06:43:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
In-Reply-To: <008e01c75d7b$6a14b110$0201a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030306430702183a833701@msapiro>

John Fleming wrote:
>
>Same thing as before.  Here's the script:
>
>Luke:/var/lib/mailman# cat johntest
>! /bin/sh

This line needs to begin with a '#'

#! /bin/sh



>for list in `/var/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists --bare`
>do echo ----------------------------------
>echo list: $list
>/var/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/$list/config.pck | grep advertised
>echo -----------------------------------
>doneLuke:/var/lib/mailman#

And there should be a newline after 'done'


>
>I don't know what I'm missing about running this script.  Looking through 
>the .pck files manually, they all seem to have the attributes real_name, 
>language, and advertised - things that appeared in the error log.  Some are 
>advertised and some are not, but they all have that entry.


Maybe there's a list you're not looking at. Does 'bin/list_lists' or
'ls -l /var/mailman/lists/' show anything you're not looking at?

 
>> I have no idea how it got broken. Did you have a system crash? power
>> failure? some similar event?
>
>No, really.  Server on UPS.  There could have been a brief burp, but 
>UPS -should've- protected me from that.
>
>I received an email from a list member that a list wasn't working.  I 
>restarted qrunner to no avail, rebooted the server to no avail, and then 


Was Mailman running when you rebooted? Also, is it possible you had
multiple instances of Mailman running when you rebooted so that a
shutdown script if any didn't stop them all?  See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>
- not for the problem, but for the solution.

Do
  ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon'
or
  ps -fAww | egrep 'p[y]thon'
or however you might spell it on your system to see that only one
mailmanctl process and one of each of eight qrunner processes are
running.
 


>restarted qrunner again and then the lists all started working again.  The 
>"We hit a bug" webpage problem persisted throughout.
>
>Thanks for your patience - really.  If I resort to my month-old backup, 
>should I just replace the /lists directory?  - John


There is probably only one bad list, so no, don't replace the
directory. Find the bad list first and then perhaps replace its
list/listname directory or, if possible, use the config.pck.last or
fix the config.pck.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  3 15:45:50 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 06:45:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with mailman recieving posts
In-Reply-To: <8536F69C1FCC294B859D07B179F0694405CA6A9D@EXCHANGE.ad.wsicorp.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030306455000150669fc81@msapiro>

Mitchell, Michael wrote:
>
>Hi we just migrated to a new server and moved the mailman lists over as described in the FAQ.  I am not the one who originally set it up and have never worked with mailman and sendmail before this.  Originally all the mails to the lists were being bounced by sendmail, that I solved through the FAQ also but now they seem to arrive in the queue but go no where.  If it was posting the messages to the lists then I would suspect something wrong with sendmail but that is not the issue.  The alias files are all accurate and I can see them being referenced but no posting.  Upon switching back to the old server all the emails that had been sent made it out by way of the *-bounce (media-all-bounce at nuttfield.wsicorp.com).  This has confused me and I am not sure where to go from here, I would greatly appriciate a nudge in the right direction.


Are mailmanctl and the qrunners running on the new server? See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From john at wa9als.com  Sat Mar  3 16:27:30 2007
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 10:27:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
References: <PC17602007030306430702183a833701@msapiro>
Message-ID: <003101c75da8$77c5f760$0201a8c0@wa9als>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "John Fleming" <john at wa9als.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page


> John Fleming wrote:
>>
>>Same thing as before.  Here's the script:
>>
>>Luke:/var/lib/mailman# cat johntest
>>! /bin/sh
>
> This line needs to begin with a '#'
>
> #! /bin/sh

Duh - thanks.

The output I get now I think is the same as in the error log:

Luke:/var/lib/mailman# ./johntest
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists", line 122, in ?
    main()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists", line 102, in main
    longest = max(len(mlist.real_name), longest)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: real_name
Luke:/var/lib/mailman#

 - but I don't see any list-specific info!

And, here's the result of bin/list_lists:  (same as above)


> Maybe there's a list you're not looking at. Does 'bin/list_lists' or
> 'ls -l /var/mailman/lists/' show anything you're not looking at?

list_lists gives me the same error:

Luke:/var/lib/mailman/bin# ./list_lists
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./list_lists", line 122, in ?
    main()
  File "./list_lists", line 102, in main
    longest = max(len(mlist.real_name), longest)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: real_name
Luke:/var/lib/mailman/bin#

There were a couple of lists I hadn't looked at (getting tedious to do it 
manually) because they hadn't been used for a year or more.  However, they 
also look OK to me.  (They are not corrupted files, and the real_name values 
are correct, and nothing else seems amiss to me.)

We're still not getting the expected results from the script though...??


> Was Mailman running when you rebooted?

The first thing I did was restart mailman, and I got the initial message 
"qrunner not running", so no, it had stopped.  It restarted without further 
error, but the web problem was still there and the lists apparently were not 
working.  Same thing after the reboot.  But then after another qrunner 
restart, then I started receiving a backlog of messages from various lists 
(plural).


Also, is it possible you had
> multiple instances of Mailman running when you rebooted so that a
> shutdown script if any didn't stop them all?  See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>
> - not for the problem, but for the solution.
>
> Do
>  ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon'
> or
>  ps -fAww | egrep 'p[y]thon'
> or however you might spell it on your system to see that only one
> mailmanctl process and one of each of eight qrunner processes are
> running.

Yup:

Luke:/var/lib/mailman# ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon'
list     11070  0.0  0.5  7792 5416 ?        Ss   Mar02   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
list     11086  0.0  0.5  7592 5288 ?        S    Mar02   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
list     11087  0.0  0.6  8188 6284 ?        S    Mar02   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
list     11088  0.0  0.5  7620 5300 ?        S    Mar02   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
list     11089  0.0  0.9 11900 9800 ?        S    Mar02   0:03 
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
list     11090  0.0  0.5  7600 5328 ?        S    Mar02   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
list     11091  0.0  0.6  8280 6320 ?        S    Mar02   0:01 
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
list     11092  0.0  0.5  8264 6192 ?        S    Mar02   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
list     11093  0.0  0.5  7508 5288 ?        S    Mar02   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
Luke:/var/lib/mailman#


> There is probably only one bad list, so no, don't replace the
> directory. Find the bad list first and then perhaps replace its
> list/listname directory or, if possible, use the config.pck.last or
> fix the config.pck.

OK - Comments on the script that is not giving list-specific info?

And, I assume we're still on the same page about the problem:  The list 
overview web page gives an error when trying to view all of the advertised 
lists on -ANY- of my domains (all hosted on the same server) e.g. 
www.one.domain/mailman/.  (As you know, if there are no advertised lists on 
a domain, we should get a nice web page stating that fact - or the 
advertised lists etc.)  If I ask about a -specific- list 
www.one.domain/mailman/listinfo/<listname>, I get the expected web page 
without error.

- John


From mmitchell at wsi.com  Sat Mar  3 16:30:58 2007
From: mmitchell at wsi.com (Mitchell, Michael)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 10:30:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with mailman recieving posts
References: <PC17602007030306455000150669fc81@msapiro>
Message-ID: <8536F69C1FCC294B859D07B179F0694405CA6A9F@EXCHANGE.ad.wsicorp.com>

I have confirmed mailman does start, but I will go through that file to make sure everything is running correctly.  Thank you.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Sat 3/3/2007 9:45 AM
To: Mitchell, Michael; Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Issue with mailman recieving posts
 
Mitchell, Michael wrote:
>
>Hi we just migrated to a new server and moved the mailman lists over as described in the FAQ.  I am not the one who originally set it up and have never worked with mailman and sendmail before this.  Originally all the mails to the lists were being bounced by sendmail, that I solved through the FAQ also but now they seem to arrive in the queue but go no where.  If it was posting the messages to the lists then I would suspect something wrong with sendmail but that is not the issue.  The alias files are all accurate and I can see them being referenced but no posting.  Upon switching back to the old server all the emails that had been sent made it out by way of the *-bounce (media-all-bounce at nuttfield.wsicorp.com).  This has confused me and I am not sure where to go from here, I would greatly appriciate a nudge in the right direction.


Are mailmanctl and the qrunners running on the new server? See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  3 16:45:42 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 07:45:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
In-Reply-To: <003101c75da8$77c5f760$0201a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030307454202180669fd44@msapiro>

John Fleming wrote:
>
>list_lists gives me the same error:
>
>Luke:/var/lib/mailman/bin# ./list_lists
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./list_lists", line 122, in ?
>    main()
>  File "./list_lists", line 102, in main
>    longest = max(len(mlist.real_name), longest)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in __getattr__
>    raise AttributeError, name
>AttributeError: real_name
>Luke:/var/lib/mailman/bin#


I might have anticipated that, but oh well.

Replace the line

for list in `/var/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists --bare`

with

for list in `ls /var/lib/mailman/lists`

<snip>
>
>OK - Comments on the script that is not giving list-specific info?


bin/list_lists runs into the same problem so the script can't run as it
was.


>And, I assume we're still on the same page about the problem:  The list 
>overview web page gives an error when trying to view all of the advertised 
>lists on -ANY- of my domains (all hosted on the same server) e.g. 
>www.one.domain/mailman/.  (As you know, if there are no advertised lists on 
>a domain, we should get a nice web page stating that fact - or the 
>advertised lists etc.)  If I ask about a -specific- list 
>www.one.domain/mailman/listinfo/<listname>, I get the expected web page 
>without error.


Right, but the first thing the listinfo overview does is look at every
list to figure out which of those lists are advertised and in the
current domain. In the process of looking at every list, it hits one
without an advertised attribute.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From john at wa9als.com  Sat Mar  3 17:40:27 2007
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 11:40:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
References: <PC17602007030307454202180669fd44@msapiro>
Message-ID: <00d301c75db2$a8a27750$0201a8c0@wa9als>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "John Fleming" <john at wa9als.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page

> Replace the line
>
> for list in `/var/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists --bare`
>
> with
>
> for list in `ls /var/lib/mailman/lists`
>
> <snip>

OK, finally, that gives the expected output (below) - Only it just lists all 
of my lists (only 12) with their expected advertised attributes, some 0 and 
some 1.  No errors about any of them being missing.  I also ran it grepping 
for "real_name" and also got the expected output for all 12 lists.  This 
doesn't surprise me because I knew from looking manually that they all had 
the "advertised" and "real_name" attributes.  I'm also not too excited that 
simply restoring backup .pck files are going to fix the problem at this 
point...?

Luke:/var/lib/mailman# ./johntest
----------------------------------
list: 40days
    'advertised': 1,
-----------------------------------
----------------------------------
list: adboard
    'advertised': 1,
-----------------------------------
----------------------------------
list: communications
    'advertised': 1,
-----------------------------------
----------------------------------
list: flemings
    'advertised': 0,
-----------------------------------
----------------------------------
<snip>
Luke:/var/lib/mailman# 


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  3 18:08:01 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 09:08:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
In-Reply-To: <00d301c75db2$a8a27750$0201a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703030908010937d65789aa@msapiro>

John Fleming wrote:
>
>OK, finally, that gives the expected output (below) - Only it just lists all 
>of my lists (only 12) with their expected advertised attributes, some 0 and 
>some 1.  No errors about any of them being missing.  I also ran it grepping 
>for "real_name" and also got the expected output for all 12 lists.  


Try the following:

Make a copy of bin/list_lists in the bin/ directory. Say

cp bin/list_lists bin/my_list_lists

Edit this my_list_lists file - find

    mlists = []
    longest = 0
    for n in names:
        mlist = MailList.MailList(n, lock=0)
        if advertised and not mlist.advertised:
            continue
        if vhost and mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW and \
               vhost.find(mlist.web_page_url) == -1 and \
               mlist.web_page_url.find(vhost) == -1:
            continue
        mlists.append(mlist)
        longest = max(len(mlist.real_name), longest)

and add the line '        print n' so it becomes

    mlists = []
    longest = 0
    for n in names:
        print n
        mlist = MailList.MailList(n, lock=0)
        if advertised and not mlist.advertised:
            continue
        if vhost and mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW and \
               vhost.find(mlist.web_page_url) == -1 and \
               mlist.web_page_url.find(vhost) == -1:
            continue
        mlists.append(mlist)
        longest = max(len(mlist.real_name), longest)


Make sure that 'print' is indented exactly 8 spaces. Then run
bin/my_list_lists.

This should print list names one by one until it throws the exception
and prints the traceback. The last name printed has a problem.
Temporarily move this list aside

  mv /var/lib/mailman/thislist /somewhere/outside/mailman/thislist

and then run bin/my_list_lists again to see if there are any problems.
If not, you've identified the one problem list. There is something
wrong with this list's config.pck. There is something mysterious if
various software says this list doesn't have an 'advertised' or
'real_name' attribute, yet bin/dumpdb says it does.

OTOH, maybe bin/my_list_lists fails on the first list and then when you
move that list aside, it fails on the next one and so on. This would
incriminate the software somehow and not a list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From john at wa9als.com  Sat Mar  3 19:32:33 2007
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 13:32:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
References: <PC1760200703030908010937d65789aa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <001e01c75dc2$51c1ea50$0201a8c0@wa9als>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>


> Try the following:

> and add the line '        print n' so it becomes
>
>    mlists = []
>    longest = 0
>    for n in names:
>        print n
>        mlist = MailList.MailList(n, lock=0)
>        if advertised and not mlist.advertised:
>            continue
>        if vhost and mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW and \
>               vhost.find(mlist.web_page_url) == -1 and \
>               mlist.web_page_url.find(vhost) == -1:
>            continue
>        mlists.append(mlist)
>        longest = max(len(mlist.real_name), longest)
>
>
> Make sure that 'print' is indented exactly 8 spaces. Then run
> bin/my_list_lists.
>
> This should print list names one by one until it throws the exception
> and prints the traceback. The last name printed has a problem.
> Temporarily move this list aside
>
>  mv /var/lib/mailman/thislist /somewhere/outside/mailman/thislist
>
> and then run bin/my_list_lists again to see if there are any problems.
> If not, you've identified the one problem list. There is something
> wrong with this list's config.pck. There is something mysterious if
> various software says this list doesn't have an 'advertised' or
> 'real_name' attribute, yet bin/dumpdb says it does.
>
> OTOH, maybe bin/my_list_lists fails on the first list and then when you
> move that list aside, it fails on the next one and so on. This would
> incriminate the software somehow and not a list.

BINGO!  The results listed several lists without error, and then there was 
the attribute error for real_name.  The preceeding list was the mailman 
list!  So with appropriate backups, I renamed the mailman list's 
config.pck.last file to config.pck and ran mylist_lists again, and it ran 
without error, listing all of my lists!  And guess what, the list overview 
web page works as expected now!

Luke:/var/lib/mailman/bin# ./mylist_lists
<listname>
<listname>
<listname>
<listname>
mailman
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./mylist_lists", line 123, in ?
    main()
  File "./mylist_lists", line 103, in main
    longest = max(len(mlist.real_name), longest)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 144, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: real_name
Luke:/var/lib/mailman/bin#

Do you agree that there was something VERY subtle about what was wrong with 
it?  Here's a snippet from the original config.pck:

    'preferred_language': 'en',
    'private_roster': 1,
    'real_name': 'Mailman',
    'reject_these_nonmembers': [],
    'reply_goes_to_list': 0,

The real_name -looks- OK to a text editor, no?

Here's how it looks now:

    'preferred_language': 'en',
    'private_roster': 1,
    'real_name': 'Mailman',
    'reject_these_nonmembers': [],
    'reply_goes_to_list': 0,

Running diff adds to the confusion, and it's getting difficult to explain.

If I diff the present (working) config.pck (the renamed config.pck.last 
file) and config-orig.pck (the problem file), there is NO DIFFERENCE. 
However, if I diff config-orig.pck (problem file) and config.pck.last.orig 
(the original pck.last file), there IS a difference!!  So it seems that 
simply renaming the "same" (according to diff) file fixed the problem?! 
Some very subtle binary difference not detectable in the text output from 
dumpdb??

Luke:/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman# diff config.pck config-orig.pck
Luke:/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman#

Luke:/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman# diff config-orig.pck 
config.pck.last.orig
Binary files config-orig.pck and config.pck.last.orig differ

==============================================
A special THANK YOU to Mark Shapiro for his patient and detailed help on 
this problem.  Hopefully something in this thread has helped someone else 
now or in the future!  - John
==============================================


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar  4 04:06:23 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 19:06:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
In-Reply-To: <001e01c75dc2$51c1ea50$0201a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030319062303750669fdce@msapiro>

John Fleming wrote:
>
>BINGO!  The results listed several lists without error, and then there was 
>the attribute error for real_name.  The preceeding list was the mailman 
>list!  So with appropriate backups, I renamed the mailman list's 
>config.pck.last file to config.pck and ran mylist_lists again, and it ran 
>without error, listing all of my lists!  And guess what, the list overview 
>web page works as expected now!


That's great!  I'm glad it's now working again.


>Do you agree that there was something VERY subtle about what was wrong with 
>it?  Here's a snippet from the original config.pck:
>
>    'preferred_language': 'en',
>    'private_roster': 1,
>    'real_name': 'Mailman',
>    'reject_these_nonmembers': [],
>    'reply_goes_to_list': 0,
>
>The real_name -looks- OK to a text editor, no?


Yes, it looks fine.


>Here's how it looks now:
>
>    'preferred_language': 'en',
>    'private_roster': 1,
>    'real_name': 'Mailman',
>    'reject_these_nonmembers': [],
>    'reply_goes_to_list': 0,


And yes, this looks the same. One thing I thought of - are both of
these excerpts from something identified by bin/dumpdb as 'object 1'
in the file. i.e. directly below the lines

[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->

with no intervening

<----- start object 2 ----->


>Running diff adds to the confusion, and it's getting difficult to explain.
>
>If I diff the present (working) config.pck (the renamed config.pck.last 
>file) and config-orig.pck (the problem file), there is NO DIFFERENCE. 



Very strange indeed. Of course, every time Mailman saves a list, it
goes through a complex dance, the result of which is rotating the
existing config.pck to config.pck.last and saving the new config.pck,
but with more safety than just doing that directly.


>However, if I diff config-orig.pck (problem file) and config.pck.last.orig 
>(the original pck.last file), there IS a difference!!


Have the timestamps changed? maybe Mailman Saved the list in the mean
time. However, that would not explain why diff says that
config-orig.pck, and the current config.pck are the same, yet one
works and the other didn't. That is the real mystery, and I have no
answer for that.


>So it seems that 
>simply renaming the "same" (according to diff) file fixed the problem?! 
>Some very subtle binary difference not detectable in the text output from 
>dumpdb??


Still, diff 'should' detect a difference. Are the files the same
length? What does

cmp config.pck config-orig.pck

say?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From john at wa9als.com  Sun Mar  4 05:38:33 2007
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 23:38:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent newbie help - "Hit a bug" page
References: <PC17602007030319062303750669fdce@msapiro>
Message-ID: <002301c75e16$f9f430d0$0201a8c0@wa9als>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>

> And yes, this looks the same. One thing I thought of - are both of
> these excerpts from something identified by bin/dumpdb as 'object 1'
> in the file. i.e. directly below the lines
>
> [----- start pickle file -----]
> <----- start object 1 ----->
>
> with no intervening
>
> <----- start object 2 ----->

-YES-


>>Running diff adds to the confusion, and it's getting difficult to explain.
>>
>>If I diff the present (working) config.pck (the renamed config.pck.last
>>file) and config-orig.pck (the problem file), there is NO DIFFERENCE.

>
> Have the timestamps changed? maybe Mailman Saved the list in the mean
> time. However, that would not explain why diff says that
> config-orig.pck, and the current config.pck are the same, yet one
> works and the other didn't. That is the real mystery, and I have no
> answer for that.
>
>
>>So it seems that
>>simply renaming the "same" (according to diff) file fixed the problem?!
>>Some very subtle binary difference not detectable in the text output from
>>dumpdb??
>
>
> Still, diff 'should' detect a difference. Are the files the same
> length? What does
>
> cmp config.pck config-orig.pck

Luke:/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman# cmp config.pck config-orig.pck
config.pck config-orig.pck differ: char 46, line 2
Luke:/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman#

Line 2 in the dumpdb output does not have 46 characters, so I assume this 
refers to the raw file??

Now look at this:

Luke:/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman# cmp config-orig.pck 
config.pck.last.orig
config-orig.pck config.pck.last.orig differ: char 46, line 2
Luke:/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman#

So the first and third cmp results above are consistent and show the same 
difference.

*****  And if you're not already going crazy, this will do it:

Earlier I sent you this diff result:

Luke:/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman# diff config.pck config-orig.pck
Luke:/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman#

But now when I run it, I get:

Luke:/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman# diff config.pck config-orig.pck
Binary files config.pck and config-orig.pck differ
Luke:/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman#

So I think we've finally beaten the horse to death and I can barely keep it 
straight anymore!  These are all cut and paste results, so it's not just my 
memory!


I don't under stand why they diff'ed the same this morning and not now!

Anyway, we know something was wrong with config.pck and using the 
config.pck.last file fixed it.

- John






From atodd at leightronix.com  Sun Mar  4 17:13:16 2007
From: atodd at leightronix.com (Aaron Todd)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 11:13:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Configuration Files
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007030317082901560669fcf9@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007030317082901560669fcf9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45EAF01C.4010602@leightronix.com>

Mark,

Just in cast you want to make note of this or for any future readers who 
are looking for the same thing...the location of mailman under a cPanel 
install is in

/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman

After figuring that out running the config_list -o command worked 
perfect.  The only other problem I had was with the list name.  I first 
tried the name if the list without the domain name and it would not 
accept it.  I then tried it with the domain, but also with the @ 
symbol.   That wasn't accepted either.  I then tried using the 
underscore in place of the @ like it is shown in the mailman admin and 
it outputted exactly what I wanted. 

Thanks again for your help.

Aaron Todd

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Thanks for the information, but I do not seem to have the config_list 
>> file in the bin directory.  Could it be somewhere else?  I have full 
>> root access to my server and it has been set up with the cPanel WHM 
>> system.  I am unsure if they store the list information in a different 
>> location.
>>     
>
>
> This would be in Mailman's bin/ directory, not the system /bin/
> directory. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>
> re cPanel.
>
> I don't know where Mailman's files are in a cPanel installation, but
> without the command line tools in Mailman's bin/ directory and the
> ability to run them, there's no easier way to compare list
> configurations than by manually going through the web pages.
>
> I suppose if you had really good tools on a local work station to
> 'screen scrape' the web interface, you could try to automate it that
> way, but without some really good tools, I think this would be more
> effort than it's worth.
>
>   


From srb at umich.edu  Sun Mar  4 19:43:55 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 13:43:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade problem
Message-ID: <83AE97E318DCDF10EF37B8EF@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>

I just tried to upgrade our Mailman 2.1.4 install to Mailman 2.1.9.  I 
didn't get very far -- as soon as I tried to visit the listinfo page, I got 
the "sorry we've hit a bug" message:

---
Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but 
the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
---

Unfortunately, nothing was written to Mailman's log(s), or to the web 
server's error log.

bin/list_lists happily lists all the lists, so it doesn't look like I've 
got a bad list, at least superficially, so I'm somewhat at a loss as to 
what to do next.

Is there a way I can un-inhibit "printing of traceback and other system 
info"?

A little more information, in case it helps:

In our current installation, the mailman directory lives on our mail host, 
and is NFS-mounted by our web server.  Because we're getting ready to 
upgrade both mail host and web server, I made a copy of the mailman 
directory on a volume on our NAS, updated that, and then mounted that on 
the web server in place of the current directory.  That also allowed me to 
drop back and punt when I hit the error.

bin/check_perms only complained about some directories and files that the 
NAS creates, so I don't think it's a permission problem.

All hints gratefully accepted...

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar  4 20:08:30 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 11:08:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade problem
In-Reply-To: <83AE97E318DCDF10EF37B8EF@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703041108300968aa8fb246@msapiro>

Steve Burling wrote:

>I just tried to upgrade our Mailman 2.1.4 install to Mailman 2.1.9.  I 
>didn't get very far -- as soon as I tried to visit the listinfo page, I got 
>the "sorry we've hit a bug" message:
>
>---
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but 
>the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>---
>
>Unfortunately, nothing was written to Mailman's log(s), or to the web 
>server's error log.
>
>bin/list_lists happily lists all the lists, so it doesn't look like I've 
>got a bad list, at least superficially, so I'm somewhat at a loss as to 
>what to do next.
>
>Is there a way I can un-inhibit "printing of traceback and other system 
>info"?



Yes. Edit the scripts/driver file and change

STEALTH_MODE = 1

to

STEALTH_MODE = 0

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From steve at stedee.id.au  Mon Mar  5 00:53:00 2007
From: steve at stedee.id.au (Steve McInerney)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:53:00 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] One subscribe to multiple lists or equivalent?
Message-ID: <34143.152.91.9.9.1173052380.squirrel@getafix.stedee.id.au>

Hi,

Trying to discover a method for having a single user subscribe to multiple
lists, once. One sole confirm message, not one per list.

Or....

Am thinking that a single list with judicious use of topics may also work.
The problem then becomes one of having a front end form that allows a
selection of topics within the subscription page.


The idea being to avoid users (who are extremely non-technical) from
having to subscribe, confirm, visit this page, select these things etc.

Single form: Fill in, submit, confirm email, all done: is the desired
outcome.

Is such possible? Can anyone give some pointers on how we could do such a
thing?

We're looking at having a front end form that will capture the requests to
a text file for latter processing into various topics. As this for
announce only capability, a small delay is not too unacceptable.


Cheers!

- Steve

From srb at umich.edu  Mon Mar  5 01:34:58 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 19:34:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703041108300968aa8fb246@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200703041108300968aa8fb246@msapiro>
Message-ID: <B9641C86E992555CEAE29936@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>

--On March 4, 2007 11:08:30 AM -0800 Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Steve Burling wrote:

> > Is there a way I can un-inhibit "printing of traceback and other system
> > info"?
>
>
>
> Yes. Edit the scripts/driver file and change
>
> STEALTH_MODE = 1
>
> to
>
> STEALTH_MODE = 0

To which I reply:

Thanks, Mark.  By the time I'd managed to get my message off, my testing 
window had closed, so I'll give this a shot at my next opportunity.

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Mar  5 15:44:09 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:44:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
Message-ID: <20070305144409.GA6473@allhats.xcski.com>

I'm having two problems with members of a list who are set to "no mail"
but whose email address is no longer valid:
- The bounce of the monthly password reminder, even though it is VERPed,
  is not sufficient to remove them from the list because it's only one
  bounce.  It would be nice if that bounce would trigger some additional
  probing, possibly immediately going to the "you are disabled" warnings.
- I send the membership list of one particular list off as a cron job to a
  friend who has a "backup list" for that one.  But there is no easy way
  to remove addresses that are set to "no mail" from the output of
  list_members.  What I want is the opposite of "list_members -n" to show
  only members who aren't set to "no mail".

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Medication did wonders for me, Dave. Perhaps it could for you, if a
crowbar and half a pound of axle grease counts as medication.
              -- Red Drag Diva

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar  5 18:53:29 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:53:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime conversions - missing carriage returns
	andoddcharacters
In-Reply-To: <45EC4A49.20809@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703050953290421c05a58e2@msapiro>

Ryan Steele wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Ryan Steele wrote:
>>   
>>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>     
>>>> Do you have convert_html_to_plaintext set to Yes?
>>>>   
>>>>       
>>> Affirmative, I do.
>>>     
>>
>>
>> Based on what I see, I don't think that is the problem.


It definitely IS the issue with this one. 
>I'm still working on getting the client to be able to consistently 
>reproduce the character misrepresentation (UTF-8) issue, so I won't 
>bother the list with that for now.  However, here's a good example of 
>one with stripped carriage returns.  Sorry for the delay.  I didn't post 
>this to the list because I didn't want a search engine spider crawling 
>the information in the header... feel free to post a reply with those 
>snipped!
>
>Before making it to the list (carriage return omission example):
>
>######################################################################################
>
<snip>
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9
>Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<snip>
>
><html>
><body>
>Hello, Ryan<br><br>
>I am writing each line flush left<br><br>
>And, I have inserted a CR between each line<br><br>
>I am copying you on the original<br><br>
>And sending a copy to test2<br><br>
>I think you'll see that the text shifts 2 spaces to the right<br><br>
>And that all the CRs are deleted<br><br>
>And that urls get footnoted.<br><br>
>For instance,
>
><a href="http://www.odnetwork.org/" eudora="autourl">www.odnetwork.org<br>
><br>
></a>Plus the url in my sig block<br><br>
>I am typing bold in <b>bold </b>and italics in <i>italics<br><br>
></i>I hope that helps.<br><br>
>Bill you will also get a copy of this, which you can ignore.<br><br>
>Matt<br>
>
<snip>
</body>
></html>
>
>######################################################################################
>
>After making it to the list (carriage return omission example):
>
>######################################################################################
>
<snip>
>X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8
<snip>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<snip>
>
>
>
>   Hello, Ryan
>   I am writing each line flush left
>   And, I have inserted a CR between each line
>   I am copying you on the original
>   And sending a copy to test2
>   I think you'll see that the text shifts 2 spaces to the right
>   And that all the CRs are deleted
>   And that urls get footnoted.
>   For instance, [1]www.odnetwork.org
>   Plus the url in my sig block
>   I am typing bold in bold and italics in italics
>   I hope that helps.
>   Bill you will also get a copy of this, which you can ignore.
>   Matt
>
<snip>
>
>References
>
>   1. http://www.odnetwork.org/
<snip>


The original post was html only, thus it was converted to plain text.
The indentation and footnoting of hyperlinks is all done by your
HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND (default = '/usr/bin/lynx -dump
%(filename)s'). I'm not sure what 'carriage returns' are missing, but
if you're referring to the html that renders as double spaces being
renderd single spaced, that's lynx too. If you prefer a double spaced
rendering, you can put

HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND = '/usr/bin/links -dump %(filename)s'

in mm_cfg.py to replace lynx with links (verify that you have links and
that is the correct path). The rest of what links does with this is
very similar to what lynx does.

If in the other cases, we are converting utf-8 html to plain text, I
think that explains why we 'lose' the character set. I think there are
definitely problems in this area. It didn't look like that was the
issue from a previous post, but as the messages were incomplete in
that example, I may have misinterpreted what was happening.

If your client would post plain text or even multipart/alternative, we
wouldn't have to convert the html.

See <http://www.expita.com/nomime.html#eudora5> (hopefully it also
applies to Eudora 7.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From steele at agora-net.com  Mon Mar  5 19:15:04 2007
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:15:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime conversions - missing carriage returns
	andoddcharacters
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703050953290421c05a58e2@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200703050953290421c05a58e2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45EC5E28.5020209@agora-net.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>     
>>> Ryan Steele wrote:
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> Do you have convert_html_to_plaintext set to Yes?
>>>>>   
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> Affirmative, I do.
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> Based on what I see, I don't think that is the problem.
>>>       
>
>
> It definitely IS the issue with this one. 
>   
>> I'm still working on getting the client to be able to consistently 
>> reproduce the character misrepresentation (UTF-8) issue, so I won't 
>> bother the list with that for now.  However, here's a good example of 
>> one with stripped carriage returns.  Sorry for the delay.  I didn't post 
>> this to the list because I didn't want a search engine spider crawling 
>> the information in the header... feel free to post a reply with those 
>> snipped!
>>
>> Before making it to the list (carriage return omission example):
>>
>> ######################################################################################
>>
>>     
> <snip>
>   
>> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9
>> Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
>>     
> <snip>
>   
>> <html>
>> <body>
>> Hello, Ryan<br><br>
>> I am writing each line flush left<br><br>
>> And, I have inserted a CR between each line<br><br>
>> I am copying you on the original<br><br>
>> And sending a copy to test2<br><br>
>> I think you'll see that the text shifts 2 spaces to the right<br><br>
>> And that all the CRs are deleted<br><br>
>> And that urls get footnoted.<br><br>
>> For instance,
>>
>> <a href="http://www.odnetwork.org/" eudora="autourl">www.odnetwork.org<br>
>> <br>
>> </a>Plus the url in my sig block<br><br>
>> I am typing bold in <b>bold </b>and italics in <i>italics<br><br>
>> </i>I hope that helps.<br><br>
>> Bill you will also get a copy of this, which you can ignore.<br><br>
>> Matt<br>
>>
>>     
> <snip>
> </body>
>   
>> </html>
>>
>> ######################################################################################
>>
>> After making it to the list (carriage return omission example):
>>
>> ######################################################################################
>>
>>     
> <snip>
>   
>> X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8
>>     
> <snip>
>   
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>     
> <snip>
>   
>>
>>   Hello, Ryan
>>   I am writing each line flush left
>>   And, I have inserted a CR between each line
>>   I am copying you on the original
>>   And sending a copy to test2
>>   I think you'll see that the text shifts 2 spaces to the right
>>   And that all the CRs are deleted
>>   And that urls get footnoted.
>>   For instance, [1]www.odnetwork.org
>>   Plus the url in my sig block
>>   I am typing bold in bold and italics in italics
>>   I hope that helps.
>>   Bill you will also get a copy of this, which you can ignore.
>>   Matt
>>
>>     
> <snip>
>   
>> References
>>
>>   1. http://www.odnetwork.org/
>>     
> <snip>
>
>
> The original post was html only, thus it was converted to plain text.
> The indentation and footnoting of hyperlinks is all done by your
> HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND (default = '/usr/bin/lynx -dump
> %(filename)s'). I'm not sure what 'carriage returns' are missing, but
> if you're referring to the html that renders as double spaces being
> renderd single spaced, that's lynx too. If you prefer a double spaced
> rendering, you can put
>
> HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND = '/usr/bin/links -dump %(filename)s'
>
> in mm_cfg.py to replace lynx with links (verify that you have links and
> that is the correct path). The rest of what links does with this is
> very similar to what lynx does.
>   

I do have links, and I can confirm that is the correct path (at least on 
my Debian Sarge boxes).  It appears that his Eudora client is configured 
to send in html, and that the two carriage returns after each line are 
being written as two break tags; I understand why that would render as a 
single carriage return in that regard.  Nonetheless, I will check out 
links - thank you for the suggestion.

> If in the other cases, we are converting utf-8 html to plain text, I
> think that explains why we 'lose' the character set. I think there are
> definitely problems in this area. It didn't look like that was the
> issue from a previous post, but as the messages were incomplete in
> that example, I may have misinterpreted what was happening.
>
>   

There are other users from Europe whose character sets are UTF-8 and who 
are sending in HTML to boot (like one of the messages I posted before), 
so that was happening (I believe) for those users - but as I mentioned 
before, I want to get something I can consistently reproduce before 
bothering the list with any of that.  Bugs that can't be reproduced are 
of no help IMHO, and I'm sure in the eyes of most developers as well.  I 
will try to get an example of this for you where I've been CC'ed in 
addition to the list, if I can.

> If your client would post plain text or even multipart/alternative, we
> wouldn't have to convert the html.
>
>   

True; the problem is there is a very large user base for the lists in 
question and very few are the technical types (read: would not be able 
to, under any circumstance, change the output style to something 
non-HTML in their MUA), so it seems like an unfortunate but necessary 
evil. 

> See <http://www.expita.com/nomime.html#eudora5> (hopefully it also
> applies to Eudora 7.)
>
>   
Thanks for the reference on that.  I appreciate all of your advice and time.

Best Regards,
Ryan

-- 
Ryan Steele                         
Systems Administrator               steele at agora-net.com
AgoraNet, Inc.                      (302) 224-2475
314 E. Main Street, Suite 1         (302) 224-2552 (fax)
Newark, DE 19711                    http://www.agora-net.com


From starrm at putzam.com  Mon Mar  5 23:07:41 2007
From: starrm at putzam.com (Mike Starr)
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 16:07:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime conversions - missing carriage	returns
	andoddcharacters
Message-ID: <s5ec4058.049@mail.putzam.com>

Butting in here where I probably don't belong (I'm speaking here more as a mailing list end user than as a list administrator) but as simple as that wish is, it ain't gonna happen. I subscribe to a number of mailing lists, some of them mailman powered, some of them lyris-powered and some of them yahoo-powered. I always subscribe to the digest version and while mailman and yahoo do the best job of building digests, no amount of harping, whining, cajoling and/or threatening will get end users to modify their email clients to use plain text and as far as more exotic settings like multipart/alternative it just ain't gonna happen. The best option I've seen is one list that blanket rejects any post in HTML. Getting end-users to go to plain text is a losing battle. 

>>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> 03/05/07 11:53 AM >>>
If your client would post plain text or even multipart/alternative, we
wouldn't have to convert the html.

See <http://www.expita.com/nomime.html#eudora5> (hopefully it also
applies to Eudora 7.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeremy at webnation.us  Tue Mar  6 05:01:56 2007
From: jeremy at webnation.us (Jeremy Bowen)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 20:01:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posting Problems
Message-ID: <0b9201c75fa4$319a9cc0$08531505@jeremybowen>

Greetings all,
 
I have just installed mailman and it looks like it will work really great
for what we need!
 
I seem to be having an issue though. I cannot seem to post to the list no
matter what I do! I set myself as administrator and then restricted posts to
the list to admins. When I send an e-mail to the list it bounces even though
I am sending from the address listed as admin!
 
I have looked through the doc's and changed this and that but to no avail!
 
HELP!!
 
Thanks,
 
Jeremy Bowen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Mar  6 05:47:14 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 22:47:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posting Problems
In-Reply-To: <0b9201c75fa4$319a9cc0$08531505@jeremybowen>
References: <0b9201c75fa4$319a9cc0$08531505@jeremybowen>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00703052047i3f6e8bccy4c10b7874f9c7b3d@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/5/07, Jeremy Bowen <jeremy at webnation.us> wrote:
> I seem to be having an issue though. I cannot seem to post to the list no
> matter what I do! I set myself as administrator and then restricted posts to
> the list to admins. When I send an e-mail to the list it bounces even though
> I am sending from the address listed as admin!

Can you check Maimlan's 'vette' log and tell us exactly what it says
for one of the rejected posts?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  6 06:39:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 21:39:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posting Problems
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00703052047i3f6e8bccy4c10b7874f9c7b3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030521393904686998f05b@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 3/5/07, Jeremy Bowen <jeremy at webnation.us> wrote:
>> I seem to be having an issue though. I cannot seem to post to the list no
>> matter what I do! I set myself as administrator and then restricted posts to
>> the list to admins. When I send an e-mail to the list it bounces even though
>> I am sending from the address listed as admin!
>
>Can you check Maimlan's 'vette' log and tell us exactly what it says
>for one of the rejected posts?

Or tell us what exactly is in the 'bounce' notification.

Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From heathcliff at telus.net  Tue Mar  6 04:32:04 2007
From: heathcliff at telus.net (heathcliff)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 19:32:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting users off old listserv
Message-ID: <001601c75fa0$02b60d80$ea99149a@manny>

Hello,

We are all set to migrate our user community to Mailman, but we are at an 
impasse as to the most painless way to do this.  It is not enough to just 
inform them of the cut off date and send them a few lines of instructions or 
guides ahead of time.  Has anyone come across or devised a painless way to wean 
them off of the old listserv?  I have been checking around in the archives, but 
to no avail.
Any suggestions you can make would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Mar  6 11:30:00 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 19:30:00 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Getting users off old listserv
In-Reply-To: <001601c75fa0$02b60d80$ea99149a@manny>
References: <001601c75fa0$02b60d80$ea99149a@manny>
Message-ID: <878xeaaclz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

heathcliff writes:

 > We are all set to migrate our user community to Mailman, but we are
 > at an impasse as to the most painless way to do this.  It is not
 > enough to just inform them of the cut off date and send them a few
 > lines of instructions or guides ahead of time.  Has anyone come
 > across or devised a painless way to wean them off of the old
 > listserv?  I have been checking around in the archives, but to no
 > avail.

Er, what do you mean by "user community"?  The subscribers, or the
list admins?  And what do you mean by "pain"?

It should be transparent to the subscribers, until they want to
unsubscribe.

For the list admins, they need to know how to print out a list of
subscriptions from the old listserv in the form:

"Full Name" <box at postoffice.tld>

and paste them into the mass subscription window in the subscriber
maintenance form in the Mailman admin interface.  The Mailman side is
almost trivial unless you've got hundreds of subscribers or scores of
lists.


From voravit at imit.kth.se  Tue Mar  6 11:26:19 2007
From: voravit at imit.kth.se (Voravit T.)
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 11:26:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] need help with virtual domain
Message-ID: <45ED41CB.4020000@imit.kth.se>

Dear all,

I have been trying to set up new a mailman (2.1.5) and would like to 
have true virtual host support
since we are hosting roughly 10 virtual domains and most of them have 
the same list names.
The old existing mailing list is also mailman (2.0.11), which runs with 
true virtual host support (probably it was patched).

I have found that there are 2 alternatives, which I have tried both of them.
1. running different instances of mailman
2. using a patch

I am relatively new with linux administration.
I think that the first solution is somewhat complicated and difficult to 
maintain.
So, I preferred the second solution. However, the patches that I found 
was not working properly.

Here are the 2 patches that I have tried. (both gave me the same problems)
1. from sourceforge page 
(http://al.blog.free.fr/mailman/mailman-vh-2.1.5.patch)
2. from wiki.koumbit.net 
(http://lethe.koumbit.net/svn/koumbit/trunk/patches/mailman-true-virtual-2.1.5.patch)

I am running Debian sarge having all packages from stable repository 
(mailman 2.1.5-8sar with postfix 2.1.5-9)

There are 2 problems I got after patching.

1. The mailing list in virtual-domain file was not generated correctly.
Here is a part of virtual-mailman file after generated a new list called 
tt at stockholmopen.net
#virtual-mailman
#I created a list called tt at stockholmopen.net
tt-stockholmopen.net at stockholmopen.net              tt-stockholmopen.net
tt-stockholmopen.net-admin at stockholmopen.net        
tt-stockholmopen.net-admin
tt-stockholmopen.net-bounces at stockholmopen.net      
tt-stockholmopen.net-bounces

while the expecting result should be something like the following:
tt at stockholmopen.net              tt-stockholmopen.net
tt-admin at stockholmopen.net        tt-stockholmopen.net-admin
tt-bounces at stockholmopen.net      tt-stockholmopen.net-bounces

I am running Debian sarge stable
Here is part of my mm_cfg.py
#mm_cfg.py
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'ssvl.kth.se'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'smtp.ssvl.kth.se'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('mail.stockholmopen.net', 'stockholmopen.net')
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['stockholmopen.net']

2. After create a new list, the list does not show up on the web 
interface (both listinfo and admin) eventhough it has advertised=1.
I could access the page by typing the URL manaully for example 
http://mail.stockholmopen.net/mailman/admin/tt-stockholmopen.net
However, all the links on the page will point to
http://stockholmopen.net/mailman/x rather than 
http://mail.stockholmopen.net/mailman/x


As mentioned earlier, I am rather new linux user and never run a patch 
before
I did the following:

#cd /var/lib
#patch -p0 < mailman-vh-2.1.5.patch

Is this the right way to patch or do I need to change something in the 
patch file before I patch it?
and if this is correctly done, could you give me some suggestion of how 
can I get all links on the administrative interface to point to correct 
name?


Best regards,
Voravit T.







From thkoch at ruhrgebietswiki.de  Tue Mar  6 14:22:54 2007
From: thkoch at ruhrgebietswiki.de (Thomas Koch)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 14:22:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian, Exim4, GID, desperated...
Message-ID: <200703061422.55156.thkoch@ruhrgebietswiki.de>

Hi,

I'm running a Debian-Sarge-Testing Server with Mailman 2.1.9-7, exim4 4.63-17. 
I think I've consulted every README, FAQ and internetsite available, but 
couldn't get mailman to work.

I copied the Exim4 conf files from README.Exim4.Debian.

The first problem was piping. I resolved it by creating a file 
conf.d/main/000_localmacros as indicated here: 
http://www.sput.nl/software/exim.html

with
SYSTEM_ALIASES_PIPE_TRANSPORT = address_pipe

Now I get complaints like this:
"Group mismatch error. ?Mailman expected the mail
wrapper script to be executed as group "daemon", but
the system's mail server executed the mail script as
group "Debian-exim"...."

The problem doesn't change when I change the line
MAILMAN_GROUP=daemon to anything like mailman, Debian-exim or list.

I also changed
MTA = 'postfix' to MTA = None, but I think this shouldn't have effect on this 
issue.

What else can I tell you?

Cheers,

Thomas Koch


From andreadg at otenet.gr  Tue Mar  6 13:50:06 2007
From: andreadg at otenet.gr (andReadG)
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:50:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to PRESERVE multipart/mixed format
Message-ID: <45ED637E.5040301@otenet.gr>

Hi guys

My question is this:
I have allowed attachments in Mailman, but whenever
someone sends a mail to the list, its subscribers
receive the original message coverted to text/plain
with a link to the attachment(s).
The link is correct and everything works in the
end, but I would prefer the original attachment to
remain within the original mime multipart message!
Can it be done?
(note: the actual MTA is postfix)

I hope I'm not asking something naive!

Thanks for any suggestion

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  6 17:05:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 08:05:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to PRESERVE multipart/mixed format
In-Reply-To: <45ED637E.5040301@otenet.gr>
Message-ID: <PC176020070306080539020306981692@msapiro>

andReadG wrote:
>
>My question is this:
>I have allowed attachments in Mailman, but whenever
>someone sends a mail to the list, its subscribers
>receive the original message coverted to text/plain
>with a link to the attachment(s).

In the admin interface, turn off Non-digest options->scrub_nondigest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cmefford at eruditium.org  Tue Mar  6 16:47:45 2007
From: cmefford at eruditium.org (Chip Mefford)
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 10:47:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] turn off moderation notification to the sender?
Message-ID: <45ED8D21.1060106@eruditium.org>

Is this doable?

On one of my lists, the folks running the list have
asked if I could disable the moderation notification
that gets send to the poster.

I'm not exactly comfortable doing this, but it
does make a certain sense in this particular
case. However, I don't see such an option.

Clues?

From dave at hamnet.org  Tue Mar  6 16:49:29 2007
From: dave at hamnet.org (Dave Foran)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 10:49:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting users off old listserv
In-Reply-To: <878xeaaclz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20070306154930.AE3A52832C@smtp-ext-01.mx.pitdc1.expedient.net>

If I may, I moved 6 lists off Smartlist to Mailman, and no one knew the
difference

(one list has 4600+ members)

I copied the dlist and did a mass subscription and flagged the system to not
invite and no notice and vola done

Painless yes..

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+dave=hamnet.org at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+dave=hamnet.org at python.org] On Behalf Of
Stephen J. Turnbull
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 05:30
To: heathcliff
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting users off old listserv

heathcliff writes:

 > We are all set to migrate our user community to Mailman, but we are  > at
an impasse as to the most painless way to do this.  It is not  > enough to
just inform them of the cut off date and send them a few  > lines of
instructions or guides ahead of time.  Has anyone come  > across or devised
a painless way to wean them off of the old  > listserv?  I have been
checking around in the archives, but to no  > avail.

Er, what do you mean by "user community"?  The subscribers, or the list
admins?  And what do you mean by "pain"?

It should be transparent to the subscribers, until they want to unsubscribe.

For the list admins, they need to know how to print out a list of
subscriptions from the old listserv in the form:

"Full Name" <box at postoffice.tld>

and paste them into the mass subscription window in the subscriber
maintenance form in the Mailman admin interface.  The Mailman side is almost
trivial unless you've got hundreds of subscribers or scores of lists.

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dave%40hamnet.org

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  6 17:17:51 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 08:17:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting users off old listserv
In-Reply-To: <878xeaaclz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030608175100400669fc9b@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
>It should be transparent to the subscribers, until they want to
>unsubscribe.


Except if the list posting address has to change. In this case, what we
did is announce the impending changes on the old list, and announce
the change again on the new list immediately after cutover. Then we
moderated all the members on the old list (at lists.topica.com).
Unfortunately, Topica doesn't have a facility for autoresponding to a
moderated post, so we did that manually, but it wasn't a lot of volume.

BTW, if anyone is interested in scripts to extract membership data and
archives from the Topica web interface, there are a couple at
<http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/> (mirror
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/>)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  6 17:52:58 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 08:52:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian, Exim4, GID, desperated...
In-Reply-To: <200703061422.55156.thkoch@ruhrgebietswiki.de>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030608525808680669ffde@msapiro>

Thomas Koch wrote:
>
>I'm running a Debian-Sarge-Testing Server with Mailman 2.1.9-7, exim4 4.63-17.
>I think I've consulted every README, FAQ and internetsite available, but
>couldn't get mailman to work.
>
>I copied the Exim4 conf files from README.Exim4.Debian.
>
>The first problem was piping. I resolved it by creating a file
>conf.d/main/000_localmacros as indicated here:
>http://www.sput.nl/software/exim.html
>
>with
>SYSTEM_ALIASES_PIPE_TRANSPORT = address_pipe


The way to configure Mailman/Exim integration is discussed at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.019.htp>
which contains a link to <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>.


>Now I get complaints like this:
>"Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
>wrapper script to be executed as group "daemon", but
>the system's mail server executed the mail script as
>group "Debian-exim"...."
>
>The problem doesn't change when I change the line
>MAILMAN_GROUP=daemon to anything like mailman, Debian-exim or list.


I don't know if you're talking about MAILMAN_GROUP in mm_cfg.py (which
you shouldn't change from the default) or MAILMAN_GROUP in your Exim
configuration or some Debian magic MAILMAN_GROUP to adjust the group
expected by the wrapper.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
for a better understanding of group mismatch errors.


>I also changed
>MTA = 'postfix' to MTA = None, but I think this shouldn't have effect on this
>issue.


Correct.

If the MAILMAN_GROUP=daemon you refer to above is in your Exim
configuration, that should be what you need, if it is properly
referenced by a 'group =' in your mailman transport, but in your case
you seem to be using aliases for mailman instead of a mailman router
and mailman transport, so the 'group = MAILMAN_GROUP' would be in the
address_pipe transport.

However, I recommend you configure exim per
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html> and do away with mailman
aliases altogether.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  6 18:03:08 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 09:03:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] turn off moderation notification to the sender?
In-Reply-To: <45ED8D21.1060106@eruditium.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030609030803370669fd99@msapiro>

Chip Mefford wrote:
>
>On one of my lists, the folks running the list have
>asked if I could disable the moderation notification
>that gets send to the poster.


You can't turn off only the moderated hold notice, but you can turn off
all held message notifications to the poster with General
Options->respond_to_post_requests.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  6 19:24:21 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 10:24:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian, Exim4, GID, desperated...
In-Reply-To: <200703061813.49342.thkoch@ruhrgebietswiki.de>
References: <PC17602007030608525808680669ffde@msapiro>
	<200703061813.49342.thkoch@ruhrgebietswiki.de>
Message-ID: <45EDB1D5.3090300@value.net>

Thomas Koch wrote:
> Hi Mark with k,

:-)

> I've commented out the line
> SYSTEM_ALIASES_PIPE_TRANSPORT = address_pipe
> now and get my old error back:
> 
> 1HOcy6-0004Cy-Vj == |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post egroupware2-svn 
> <egroupware2-svn at localhost> R=system_aliases defer (-30): pipe_transport 
> unset in system_aliases router


Remove all the Mailman aliases from /etc/aliases or wherever they are. 
You don't use aliases with this Exim config.


> I've set up router and transport, see my config snippets below. I think the 
> problem is, that the transport isn't called, because exim tries to to some 
> aliases magic before. 


Exactly, which is why you don't want any Mailman aliases.


> I installed mailman following this site: 
> http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/108
> So I copied all those aliases to /etc/aliases, but afterwards I read, that 
> this is not recommended anymore. So I deleted the aliases again and called 
> newaliases.


newaliases normally does nothing in Exim. See the -bi option in 'man exim'.


> #################################
> conf.d/main/04_local_mailman_macros
> #################################
> # Home dir for your Mailman installation -- aka Mailman's prefix
> # directory.
> MAILMAN_HOME=/var/lib/mailman
> MAILMAN_WRAP=MAILMAN_HOME/mail/mailman
> 
> # User and group for Mailman, should match your --with-mail-gid
> # switch to Mailman's configure script.
> MAILMAN_USER=list
> MAILMAN_GROUP=daemon
> 
> ##################################
> conf.d/router/970_local_mailman:
> ##################################
> mailman_workaround:
>   domains = +local_domains
>   require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
>   driver = accept
>   local_parts = mailman
>   local_part_suffix_optional
>   local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
>                       -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
>                       -subscribe : -unsubscribe : \
>                       -owner : -request : -admin
>                       transport = mailman_transport
>                       group = MAILMAN_GROUP


group = doesn't belong here.

transport = seems overly indented, but it isn't Python :-)

> 
> # Mailman lists
> mailman_router:
>   domains = +local_domains
>   condition = 
> ${lookup{$local_part@$domain}lsearch{MAILMAN_HOME/data/virtual-mailman}{1}
> {0}}


This is if you have virtual domains. If not, the 'workaround' router is 
correct.

>   require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
>   driver = accept
>   local_part_suffix_optional
>   local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
>                       -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
>                       -subscribe : -unsubscribe : \
>                       -owner : -request : -admin
>                       transport = mailman_transport
>                       group = MAILMAN_GROUP


See above


> 
> 
> ##############################################
> conf.d/transport/40_local_mailman:
> ##############################################
> mailman_transport:
>   driver = pipe
>   command = MAILMAN_WRAP \
>             '${if def:local_part_suffix \
>                 {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
>                 {post}}' \
>             $local_part
>   current_directory = MAILMAN_HOME
>   home_directory = MAILMAN_HOME
>   user = MAILMAN_USER
>   group = MAILMAN_GROUP
>   freeze_exec_fail = true

I don't know why you have freeze_exec_fail = true here. At least until 
you get things working, you probably don't want it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From thkoch at ruhrgebietswiki.de  Tue Mar  6 19:54:20 2007
From: thkoch at ruhrgebietswiki.de (Thomas Koch)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 19:54:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian, Exim4, GID, desperated...
In-Reply-To: <45EDB1D5.3090300@value.net>
References: <PC17602007030608525808680669ffde@msapiro>
	<200703061813.49342.thkoch@ruhrgebietswiki.de>
	<45EDB1D5.3090300@value.net>
Message-ID: <200703061954.20763.thkoch@ruhrgebietswiki.de>

I'm ashamed:

I found that I still had all the aliases in /etc/aliases, but I was convinced 
I had deleted them. It WORKS NOW!  (So far...)

Thank you.


Am Dienstag 06 M?rz 2007 19:24 schrieben Sie:
> Thomas Koch wrote:
> > Hi Mark with k,
> >
> :-)
> :
> > I've commented out the line
> > SYSTEM_ALIASES_PIPE_TRANSPORT = address_pipe
> > now and get my old error back:
> >
> > 1HOcy6-0004Cy-Vj == |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post egroupware2-svn
> > <egroupware2-svn at localhost> R=system_aliases defer (-30): pipe_transport
> > unset in system_aliases router
>
> Remove all the Mailman aliases from /etc/aliases or wherever they are.
> You don't use aliases with this Exim config.
>
> > I've set up router and transport, see my config snippets below. I think
> > the problem is, that the transport isn't called, because exim tries to to
> > some aliases magic before.
>
> Exactly, which is why you don't want any Mailman aliases.
>
> > I installed mailman following this site:
> > http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/108
> > So I copied all those aliases to /etc/aliases, but afterwards I read,
> > that this is not recommended anymore. So I deleted the aliases again and
> > called newaliases.
>
> newaliases normally does nothing in Exim. See the -bi option in 'man exim'.
>
> > #################################
> > conf.d/main/04_local_mailman_macros
> > #################################
> > # Home dir for your Mailman installation -- aka Mailman's prefix
> > # directory.
> > MAILMAN_HOME=/var/lib/mailman
> > MAILMAN_WRAP=MAILMAN_HOME/mail/mailman
> >
> > # User and group for Mailman, should match your --with-mail-gid
> > # switch to Mailman's configure script.
> > MAILMAN_USER=list
> > MAILMAN_GROUP=daemon
> >
> > ##################################
> > conf.d/router/970_local_mailman:
> > ##################################
> > mailman_workaround:
> >   domains = +local_domains
> >   require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
> >   driver = accept
> >   local_parts = mailman
> >   local_part_suffix_optional
> >   local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
> >                       -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
> >                       -subscribe : -unsubscribe : \
> >                       -owner : -request : -admin
> >                       transport = mailman_transport
> >                       group = MAILMAN_GROUP
>
> group = doesn't belong here.
>
> transport = seems overly indented, but it isn't Python :-)
>
> > # Mailman lists
> > mailman_router:
> >   domains = +local_domains
> >   condition =
> > ${lookup{$local_part@$domain}lsearch{MAILMAN_HOME/data/virtual-mailman}{1
> >} {0}}
>
> This is if you have virtual domains. If not, the 'workaround' router is
> correct.
>
> >   require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
> >   driver = accept
> >   local_part_suffix_optional
> >   local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
> >                       -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
> >                       -subscribe : -unsubscribe : \
> >                       -owner : -request : -admin
> >                       transport = mailman_transport
> >                       group = MAILMAN_GROUP
>
> See above
>
> > ##############################################
> > conf.d/transport/40_local_mailman:
> > ##############################################
> > mailman_transport:
> >   driver = pipe
> >   command = MAILMAN_WRAP \
> >             '${if def:local_part_suffix \
> >                 {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
> >                 {post}}' \
> >             $local_part
> >   current_directory = MAILMAN_HOME
> >   home_directory = MAILMAN_HOME
> >   user = MAILMAN_USER
> >   group = MAILMAN_GROUP
> >   freeze_exec_fail = true
>
> I don't know why you have freeze_exec_fail = true here. At least until
> you get things working, you probably don't want it.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Mar  7 09:57:55 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 02:57:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to PRESERVE multipart/mixed format
In-Reply-To: <45ED637E.5040301@otenet.gr>
References: <45ED637E.5040301@otenet.gr>
Message-ID: <p06240506c21428ef8567@[172.16.7.250]>

At 2:50 PM +0200 3/6/07, andReadG wrote:

>  The link is correct and everything works in the
>  end, but I would prefer the original attachment to
>  remain within the original mime multipart message!

The sending of any kind of MIME/HTML format e-mail is a really, 
really bad idea.  It's bad enough that there isn't a single mail 
client on the planet that can actually do anything remotely close to 
a decent job of *writing* MIME/HTML format messages, but compound 
that with the problem that there isn't a single mail client on the 
planet that is capable of properly *reading* MIME/HTML format 
messages, and you have a disaster.

The problem is that crap from one particular vendor will mostly 
kinda-semi-sorta work okay with other crap from the same vendor, but 
then everyone gets lulled into this sense that everyone else should 
be exposed to the same crap.  More importantly, people get criminally 
misled into the view that their particular brand of crap should 
necessarily be inflicted upon the entire rest of the world, because 
it "obviously" works quite well enough for them -- if only the entire 
rest of the world would kow-tow to them.


Of course, the particular brand of crap from one vendor rarely 
interoperates well at all with any kind of crap from any other kind 
of vendor.


Trust me, when it comes to MIME/HTML and any kind of MIME/multipart 
format, the whole world would be so much better off if the entire 
concept had never been invented.

Short of that, it would be best if all of that got removed from the 
entire rest of the world, so that we wouldn't have to deal with all 
that.

Failing that, we should at least try to fix all multi-party 
communications channels that happen through commonly shared 
mechanisms such as mailing lists.


And yes, I recognize the hubris and irony in suggesting that I know 
better than anyone else in the world on this subject, and that 
everyone else should kow-tow to me.  ;)

>  Can it be done?

Yeah.  Turn off all filtering within Mailman.

And be prepared for the deluge of sewage.

>  (note: the actual MTA is postfix)

The MTA you use is not relevant to this particular question.



Please understand, I'm not blaming you for any of this.  I know that 
you've probably got some sort of impossible demand that has been 
handed down to you from $DEITY's-gift-to-your-organization, and that 
you have to just live with it.

But that doesn't make it a good idea.


Sometimes people demand that you do things that are not in their best 
interest.  And sometimes when you give them what they demand, even if 
you know how bad it is for them, it doesn't actually blow up in their 
face -- at least, not immediately.

But you know that, sooner or later, it will blow up in their face, 
and then they will forget that they demanded that you give them the 
loaded bazooka without a safety and then blame you for allowing them 
to blow off their entire leg -- and half the city as well.


Face it -- you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.  That's 
just the nature of this business.  But you should at least have some 
sort of idea of what you're getting yourself into.

>  I hope I'm not asking something naive!

Sadly enough, no.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From stefan.berglund at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 12:02:34 2007
From: stefan.berglund at gmail.com (Stefan Berglund)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 12:02:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with mailman external responses
Message-ID: <dccc25c70703070302q7e9a7aeeybecd19103c3caf02@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, I'm trying to set up mailman along with postfix to be able to create
my own mailllists at home.. I use a dyndns, which I'd like to use for the
mail list URL (is that possible??) - boffman.mine.nu.

It seems to work fine, I can send mail between users on the machine,
locally.. I can send mail from a local user to an external mail.. And the
other way around.

I can also subscribe to a list, locally, and get the confirmation.. But this
is what fails externally.

That is, if I send a mail to some "list-subscribe at boffman.mine.nu" from an
external mail account, something goes wrong.. For some reason it uses the
result from gethostname()(?) as address in the mail (
blahblah.bredband.comhem.se) instead of boffman.mine.nu.

I have a log extract from the mail log over this scenario, here:
http://rafb.net/p/WRvuTL64.html

As I understand, something (wrong) happens at line 11.. There it uses "@
c83-255-126-145.bredband.comhem.se" for the first time.. Which I do not
want.. And after that, it uses that as from-address in the relay.. Or
something. I can't figure out what happens.. I just hope it's some simple
configuration detail that I've missed.

Any tips are highly apprecciated !!

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Wed Mar  7 13:40:55 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:40:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with mailman external responses
In-Reply-To: <dccc25c70703070302q7e9a7aeeybecd19103c3caf02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dccc25c70703070302q7e9a7aeeybecd19103c3caf02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070307124055.GD23265@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Stefan Berglund (stefan.berglund at gmail.com):
> That is, if I send a mail to some "list-subscribe at boffman.mine.nu" from an
> external mail account, something goes wrong.. For some reason it uses the
> result from gethostname()(?) as address in the mail (
> blahblah.bredband.comhem.se) instead of boffman.mine.nu.

That's a Postfix issue.  In /etc/postfix/main.cf, you need to specify the 
myhostname, mydomain, and possibly the masquerade_domains

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
It's not hard, it's just asking for a visit by the fuckup fairy.
              -- Peter da Silva

From gerson at cnpf.embrapa.br  Wed Mar  7 14:35:15 2007
From: gerson at cnpf.embrapa.br (Gerson Rino Prantl Oaida)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:35:15 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header
Message-ID: <45EEBF93.2010006@cnpf.embrapa.br>

Hi,

I have the mailman with freebsd and postfix.
My hostname is "host.domain.com", and the list is 
"list at host.domain.com", but I want "list at domain.com".

I can?t remove de host of header.

Anyone can help me?

Gerson Oaida
===========================
Aviso de confidencialidade:
===========================
Esta mensagem da Empresa Brasileira de Pesquisa Agropecuaria (Embrapa),
empresa publica federal regida pelo disposto na Lei Federal N.  5.851,de 
7 de dezembro de 1972, e enviada exclusivamente a seu destinatario e pode 
conter informacoes confidenciais, protegidas por sigilo profissional. 
Sua utilizacao desautorizada e ilegal e sujeita o infrator as penas da lei.
Se voce a recebeu indevidamente, queira, por gentileza, reenvia-la ao 
emitente, esclarecendo o equivoco.
=====================
Confidentiality note:
=====================
"This message from Empresa Brasileira de Pesquisa Agropecuaria (Embrapa) 
a government company established under Brazilian law (5.851/72) is directed 
exclusively to its addresses and may contain confidential data, protected 
under professional secrecy rules. Its unauthorized use is illegal and may 
subject the transgressor to the law's penalties. If you are not the addressee,
please send it back, elucidating the failure".
======================
Embrapa Florestas
www.cnpf.embrapa.br
sac at cnpf.embrapa.br
abuse at cnpf.embrapa.br
---------------------

From noc at windowslinux.net  Wed Mar  7 15:54:06 2007
From: noc at windowslinux.net (noc at windowslinux.net)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 15:54:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail delivery fails with "(-2,
	'Name or service not known')"
Message-ID: <20070307155406.z6in1g054wwokwss@webmail.windowslinux.net>

Hi,

I'm in trouble. I've read the FAQ and everything about it on mailman site.

My problem is described in the FAQ (6.14) :
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.014.htp

I see these log entries in smtp-failure:
  Dec 22 21:03:29 2004 (1060) delivery to igueths at lava-net.com failed  
with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
  Dec 22 21:18:32 2004 (1060) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or  
service not known'), msgid:  
<mailman.0.1103765581.1052.mailman at lava-net.com>
  Dec 22 21:18:32 2004 (1060) delivery to igueths at lava-net.com failed  
with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known').

This python script :
  >>> import smtplib
  >>> connection = smtplib.SMTP()
  >>>

didn't return any error to me... So I've look in my resolv.conf file.


My resolv.conf look like this :

search domainname.com
nameserver 193.24.123.123

but my computer name is "ns50.domainname.com". Should I have  
"domainname.com" in resolv.conf or "ns50.domainanme.com" ?

I've tried that in python shell :
>>> import socket
>>> x = socket.gethostname()
>>> print x
ns50.domainname.com
>>> y = socket.gethostbyname(x)
>>> print y
127.0.0.1

So i've aded "nameserver 127.0.0.1" to my resolv.conf . I've rebooted  
this computer and restarted mailman daemon.

But the problem is always here ...

When I try to access to python shell with mailman user ( @#" su  
mailman ") I've got a error :
"This account is currently not available."

So I can't test this python shell script with mailman user ...

I've look my /etc/hosts, I think it's world readable :
[root at ns50 ~]# ls -lah /etc/hosts
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 135 Feb  2 16:21 /etc/hosts


What should I do ?
Any tips ?

I have this problem since two week from now ... and I can't see how to  
solve that :(

Thanks you if you have a tips !


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Wed Mar  7 16:10:17 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:10:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header
In-Reply-To: <45EEBF93.2010006@cnpf.embrapa.br>
References: <45EEBF93.2010006@cnpf.embrapa.br>
Message-ID: <20070307151017.GA31078@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Gerson Rino Prantl Oaida (gerson at cnpf.embrapa.br):
> Hi,
> 
> I have the mailman with freebsd and postfix.
> My hostname is "host.domain.com", and the list is 
> "list at host.domain.com", but I want "list at domain.com".
> 
> I can?t remove de host of header.

Try sending email from that host without using mailman (but not as root).
If it's still putting host.domain.com, then you need to make the following
changes to your /etc/postfix/main.cf (this will look a lot like the
message I sent a few hours ago):

mydomain = domain.com
myorigin = $mydomain
masquerade_domains = $mydomain
masquerade_exceptions = webmaster, root


-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
In an experiment to determine the precise amount of beer required to enjoy
this film, I passed out.
              -- Dave O'Brien, on "Highlander II"

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar  7 17:04:55 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:04:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with mailman external responses
In-Reply-To: <dccc25c70703070302q7e9a7aeeybecd19103c3caf02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703070804550218d6e8b511@msapiro>

Stefan Berglund wrote:

>Hello, I'm trying to set up mailman along with postfix to be able to create
>my own mailllists at home.. I use a dyndns, which I'd like to use for the
>mail list URL (is that possible??) - boffman.mine.nu.


Paul has addressed your main question. I just want to add that you may
have problems trying to run Mailman from a server with a dynamic IP.
Earthlink.net for one will not accept your mail. The same is true for
some smaller ISPs. They don't like IPs with a 'generic' rDNS.

Depending on exactly which ISPs are used by your list members, you may
not be able to send mail to all of them unless you have a fixed IP,
and rDNS for the IP that points back to your domain.

I had the same issue with sending mail directly from my home network. I
already had a static IP, but it had a generic name. I had to register
my own domain and get the ISP to set rDNS for my IP to point to my
domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Wed Mar  7 17:12:50 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 11:12:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with mailman external responses
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703070804550218d6e8b511@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200703070804550218d6e8b511@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9A70D4A3-3E71-49EB-B203-1686DAC66FDE@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mar 7, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Paul has addressed your main question. I just want to add that you may
> have problems trying to run Mailman from a server with a dynamic IP.
> Earthlink.net for one will not accept your mail. The same is true for
> some smaller ISPs. They don't like IPs with a 'generic' rDNS.
>
> Depending on exactly which ISPs are used by your list members, you may
> not be able to send mail to all of them unless you have a fixed IP,
> and rDNS for the IP that points back to your domain.
>
> I had the same issue with sending mail directly from my home  
> network. I
> already had a static IP, but it had a generic name. I had to register
> my own domain and get the ISP to set rDNS for my IP to point to my
> domain.

Which ISP do you use?  I have a static IP from my cable company but  
they refuse to give me an rDNS entry.  In every other way, I really  
like them, but I do get bounces occasionally from people's (IMHO)  
misconfigured MTAs who don't accept mail from cable rDNSs.

- -Barry

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From ptomblin at xcski.com  Wed Mar  7 17:24:01 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 11:24:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with mailman external responses
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703070804550218d6e8b511@msapiro>
References: <dccc25c70703070302q7e9a7aeeybecd19103c3caf02@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200703070804550218d6e8b511@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070307162401.GA8614@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> Paul has addressed your main question. I just want to add that you may
> have problems trying to run Mailman from a server with a dynamic IP.
> Earthlink.net for one will not accept your mail. The same is true for
> some smaller ISPs. They don't like IPs with a 'generic' rDNS.

The biggest problem I had when I was doing a mailman list on my home
server was that many sites would refuse email from IPs that were on their
RBLs list of dynamic IPs.  Yes, some of them look for a valid rDNS, but
99.99% of them were perfectly happy with an rDNS of
"74-202-84-132.static.twtelecom.net" rather than "list.xcski.com".

I tried to get around that by sending my outgoing mail through my ISP's
outgoing mail server (using Postfix's "relayhost =
[smtp-server.rochester.rr.com]"), but then my ISP wouuld decide I'd sent
enough mail for that day and block me for 24 hours.  For a while I was
using a friend's box on a colo facility for a relayhost, but eventually I
moved my lists to first a Virtual Private Server at linode.com, and then
to my own colo box.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
IMAP is just not a very rich protocol.
              -- Steve Conn, Exchange Server product manager for Microsoft

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar  7 18:05:52 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:05:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ISPs and rDNS [was: Trouble with mailman
	external responses]
In-Reply-To: <9A70D4A3-3E71-49EB-B203-1686DAC66FDE@python.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020070307090552032829bc2fdc@msapiro>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>Which ISP do you use?  I have a static IP from my cable company but  
>they refuse to give me an rDNS entry.  In every other way, I really  
>like them, but I do get bounces occasionally from people's (IMHO)  
>misconfigured MTAs who don't accept mail from cable rDNSs.


I use value.net, now a part of amerion.com, but I don't recommend them.
My IP is a DSL connection from amerion.com, but it is via
dslextreme.com. I don't know the exact relationship between
amerion.com and dslextreme.com, but I have no specific problem with
dslextreme.com.

Amerion.com is not too responsive. On the rDNS issue, I sent three
email requests to Amerion customer service over about 2 weeks. I got
no response to the first two. The third request was responded to with
"I've forwarded this to engineering" and the change was made a few
days later in only one of two name servers. One more email produced an
apology and an update of the second DNS a day or two later.

I also can't seem to get them to recognize that their MTA at
mail.value.net (Ipswitch Imail, aka SMTPD32, on a MS Windows box) is
seriously overloaded or misconfigured resulting in its often reaching
its maximum number of concurrent port 25 sessions which causes it to
stop listening and refuse a port 25 connect until something finishes.
I got so frustrated with connect refusals on my attempts to send mail
that I started using my own MTA. That ultimately solved my sending
problem, but not the issue of delayed and out of sequence incoming
mail. (Actually, I think they've done something as the situation isn't
as bad as it once was, but it's still a problem).

People see/hear this rant and ask why I just don't go somewhere else,
and I have no good answer - just inertia and an attachment to my
value.net address.

Paul Tomblin wrote:

>The biggest problem I had when I was doing a mailman list on my home
>server was that many sites would refuse email from IPs that were on their
>RBLs list of dynamic IPs.  Yes, some of them look for a valid rDNS, but
>99.99% of them were perfectly happy with an rDNS of
>"74-202-84-132.static.twtelecom.net" rather than "list.xcski.com".

Actually, when I first started using my own MTA, I just configured the
MTA's primary host name as netblock-68-183-193-239.dslextreme.com, and
things worked well except for earthlink.net. I don't know if they
would have liked me better if the name had been
netblock-68-183-193-239.static.dslextreme.com, but I wound up going
through the whole domain registration/rDNS dance before I could get
them to unblock me.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From noc at windowslinux.net  Wed Mar  7 19:09:24 2007
From: noc at windowslinux.net (noc at windowslinux.net)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:09:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] True virtual hosting patch for 2.1.9
Message-ID: <20070307190924.xu7ulgk9sg44kccc@webmail.windowslinux.net>

Hi,

I've applied mailman-vh-2.1.7.patch from http://nix.lauft.net/mailman/  
to my mailman 2.1.9 (running on fedora core 5).

But I can't create same list name on different domains ... where  
should I look to fix this problem ? Any tips or logs ?

Thanks !


From barry at python.org  Wed Mar  7 19:28:07 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:28:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and solaris stuff
In-Reply-To: <200702280344.l1S3iT81022500@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200702280344.l1S3iT81022500@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <65F4B302-89C5-4A9D-BA34-F6701DFA7615@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 27, 2007, at 10:44 PM, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

> Since you guys aren't working with either Sendmail or Solaris, I think
> it would be best for me to walk through and record the entire process,
> and give that to you as a basis for inclusion where and however you
> want to use it.

Sounds great Hank, thanks.
- -Barry

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From barry at python.org  Wed Mar  7 19:38:33 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:38:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ISPs and rDNS [was: Trouble with mailman
	external responses]
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070307090552032829bc2fdc@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070307090552032829bc2fdc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46B30E69-68CA-472E-B4CA-34C43879ABDD@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mar 7, 2007, at 12:05 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Actually, when I first started using my own MTA, I just configured the
> MTA's primary host name as netblock-68-183-193-239.dslextreme.com, and
> things worked well except for earthlink.net. I don't know if they
> would have liked me better if the name had been
> netblock-68-183-193-239.static.dslextreme.com, but I wound up going
> through the whole domain registration/rDNS dance before I could get
> them to unblock me.

That's not a bad idea actually.  So far, I've only had one or two  
MTAs block me because of my funky reverse and I usually just go  
through my dormant gmail account to request a whitelisting.

- -Barry

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From barry at python.org  Wed Mar  7 19:40:05 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:40:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with mailman external responses
In-Reply-To: <20070307162401.GA8614@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <dccc25c70703070302q7e9a7aeeybecd19103c3caf02@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200703070804550218d6e8b511@msapiro>
	<20070307162401.GA8614@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <6FD84B8B-01EF-476C-A8C5-8268F8151B8F@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mar 7, 2007, at 11:24 AM, Paul Tomblin wrote:

> I tried to get around that by sending my outgoing mail through my  
> ISP's
> outgoing mail server (using Postfix's "relayhost =
> [smtp-server.rochester.rr.com]"), but then my ISP wouuld decide I'd  
> sent
> enough mail for that day and block me for 24 hours.  For a while I was
> using a friend's box on a colo facility for a relayhost, but  
> eventually I
> moved my lists to first a Virtual Private Server at linode.com, and  
> then
> to my own colo box.

Maybe you know Paul: I looked a long while back and never found a  
good answer, but can Postfix set a relayhost on a per-recipient  
basis?  IOW, for the one or two domains that block me because of my  
funky reverse DNS, I'd like to relay them through my ISP, but I'd  
like to handle everyone else myself.

- -Barry

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From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Mar  7 20:11:47 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:11:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with mailman external responses
In-Reply-To: <6FD84B8B-01EF-476C-A8C5-8268F8151B8F@python.org>
References: <dccc25c70703070302q7e9a7aeeybecd19103c3caf02@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200703070804550218d6e8b511@msapiro>
	<20070307162401.GA8614@allhats.xcski.com>
	<6FD84B8B-01EF-476C-A8C5-8268F8151B8F@python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240500c214bea63d22@[172.16.7.250]>

At 1:40 PM -0500 3/7/07, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>  Maybe you know Paul: I looked a long while back and never found a
>  good answer, but can Postfix set a relayhost on a per-recipient
>  basis?  IOW, for the one or two domains that block me because of my
>  funky reverse DNS, I'd like to relay them through my ISP, but I'd
>  like to handle everyone else myself.

All postfix routing solutions can be determined via tables and maps, 
so you should be able to do that.  Just create a suitable map.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Wed Mar  7 20:47:12 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 14:47:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with mailman external responses
In-Reply-To: <6FD84B8B-01EF-476C-A8C5-8268F8151B8F@python.org>
References: <dccc25c70703070302q7e9a7aeeybecd19103c3caf02@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200703070804550218d6e8b511@msapiro>
	<20070307162401.GA8614@allhats.xcski.com>
	<6FD84B8B-01EF-476C-A8C5-8268F8151B8F@python.org>
Message-ID: <20070307194712.GB9096@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Barry Warsaw (barry at python.org):
> On Mar 7, 2007, at 11:24 AM, Paul Tomblin wrote:
> >I tried to get around that by sending my outgoing mail through my
> >ISP's outgoing mail server (using Postfix's "relayhost =
> >[smtp-server.rochester.rr.com]"), but then my ISP wouuld decide I'd
> >sent enough mail for that day and block me for 24 hours.  For a while I
> >was using a friend's box on a colo facility for a relayhost, but
> >eventually I moved my lists to first a Virtual Private Server at
> >linode.com, and  then to my own colo box.
> 
> Maybe you know Paul: I looked a long while back and never found a  
> good answer, but can Postfix set a relayhost on a per-recipient  
> basis?  IOW, for the one or two domains that block me because of my  

Yes.  When ISPs first started blocking dynamic IPs, I was adding them one
at a time to /etc/postfix/transport like this:

.rit.edu        smtp:smtp-server.rochester.rr.com
rit.edu smtp:smtp-server.rochester.rr.com
microsoft.com smtp:smtp-server.rochester.rr.com

Make sure you have
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
in /etc/postfix/main.cf

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"Belligerent Design: The theory that life was put on this planet by an
external sentient force just to piss me off." - Lore Brand Comics

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Wed Mar  7 22:08:14 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 14:08:14 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with mailman external responses
In-Reply-To: <9A70D4A3-3E71-49EB-B203-1686DAC66FDE@python.org>
Message-ID: <200703072108.l27L8ENN011387@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Barry Warsaw has said:
> 
> Which ISP do you use?  I have a static IP from my cable company but  
> they refuse to give me an rDNS entry.  In every other way, I really  
> like them, but I do get bounces occasionally from people's (IMHO)  
> misconfigured MTAs who don't accept mail from cable rDNSs.
> 
> - -Barry
> 
Barry, I'm going to disagree with you on this one.  Virtually all of
the spam that gets through the various filters on my box comes from
big-service dynamic IP's right here in the US.  

Right now, I'm trying to home in on some of this spam, and am
operating under the assumption that I've got two or three users with
infected Microsoft systems sending out port 25 mail without their
knowledge.  I've pinned down a couple of others.  These users haven't
got the foggiest notion that there is anything wrong, what is wrong,
why it is wrong, or what to do about it, and that seems to be a common
affliction among consumer users with "always-on" internet
connectivity.

My own site has two IP's, with their own identities separate from my
upstream feed, with reverse lookups properly configured, and no port
blocking either way.  It took some time, discussion, and a couple of
very serious technical interviews with their people before they agreed
to that.  They consider me a "commercial" site "with competent on-site
administration," and terms and conditions which are quite different
from consumer sites.   

I'd really call a sendmail receiving site that blocks dynamic IP mail
as "misconfigured," when virtually all of the mail coming from such
IP's is spam.

Hank

From stefan.berglund at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 22:12:45 2007
From: stefan.berglund at gmail.com (Stefan Berglund)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 22:12:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission issues
Message-ID: <dccc25c70703071312g296dc0efjc60987892b27f96d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi again, thanks for the help w/ my previous problem.. However, I had messed
it up a bit, so I reinstalled it (postfix + mailman) :-)

Now I got some user/group issues.. It complains about postfix running the
scripts(?) as "nobody" instead of "mailman". Some googling tells me that
this is kindof common, and that postfix should use the same identity as the
owner of the aliases file...?

Right now I have this postfix config;

alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases,
             hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

..and user mailman owns both these files. Something wrong there..?

Also, I get some problem when I try to create a new list now, using the web
interface. I get a "Oops, there was a bug" page, and looking at the mailman
error log, it seems to be some kind of permission problem here also;

...
admin(29718):     os.mkdir(self.archive_dir()+'.mbox', 02775)
admin(29718): OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/testlist.mbox'
admin(29718): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(29718): sys.version     =   2.4.2 (#1, Jun 13 2006, 15:10:48)
[GCC 3.3.5-20050130 (Gentoo 3.3.5.20050130-r1, ssp-3.3.5.20050130-1,
pie-8.7.7.
admin(29718): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(29718): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(29718): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(29718): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(29718): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(29718): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(29718):   HTTP_REFERER: http://boffman.mine.nu/mailman/create
admin(29718):   SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache
admin(29718):   SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/create
admin(29718):   SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache Server at
boffman.mine.nuPort 80</address>
...

And, looking at the path mentioned;
# ls -ld /usr/local/mailman/archives/private
drwxr-s--x 4 mailman mailman 4096 Mar  7 14:52
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/

# ls -l /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
total 8
drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 Mar  7 14:52 mailman
drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 Mar  7 14:52 mailman.mbox

It feels like I've missed to do some settings of permissions.. I run gentoo,
and followed some gentoo guide.. Did I miss something? Does anyone have any
tips?


(hehe, I think this is among the most tricky things I've stumbled upon..
I've re-done it a couple of times now, and get new errors every time..! I
thought "hm, maybe I should set up a mailing list!".. how naive :))


Grateful for help

From barry at python.org  Thu Mar  8 00:47:50 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 18:47:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with mailman external responses
In-Reply-To: <20070307194712.GB9096@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <dccc25c70703070302q7e9a7aeeybecd19103c3caf02@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200703070804550218d6e8b511@msapiro>
	<20070307162401.GA8614@allhats.xcski.com>
	<6FD84B8B-01EF-476C-A8C5-8268F8151B8F@python.org>
	<20070307194712.GB9096@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <A2B9C2C6-F070-4D42-B8C7-005FA7DE051D@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mar 7, 2007, at 2:47 PM, Paul Tomblin wrote:

> Yes.  When ISPs first started blocking dynamic IPs, I was adding  
> them one
> at a time to /etc/postfix/transport like this:
>
> .rit.edu        smtp:smtp-server.rochester.rr.com
> rit.edu smtp:smtp-server.rochester.rr.com
> microsoft.com smtp:smtp-server.rochester.rr.com
>
> Make sure you have
> transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
> in /etc/postfix/main.cf

Transports, right!  (sound of hand smacking head).  I will definitely  
try this next time I get bounced by someone.

Thanks!
- -Barry

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From barry at python.org  Thu Mar  8 00:54:13 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 18:54:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with mailman external responses
In-Reply-To: <200703072108.l27L8ENN011387@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200703072108.l27L8ENN011387@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <9E430BD7-BAE7-4ECF-A023-E29AED486A79@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mar 7, 2007, at 4:08 PM, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

> Barry, I'm going to disagree with you on this one.  Virtually all of
> the spam that gets through the various filters on my box comes from
> big-service dynamic IP's right here in the US.

Hi Hank,

I don't disagree, except to point out that no-reverse-dns <> dynamic  
IP (or clueless owner :).  I'm still trying to get my ISP to provide  
reverse-dns for my static IP address, for which I pay $19.95/mo  
extra.  I don't have many other options except to move to a CoLo,  
which I'd rather not do.

I recognize that there's no good way for an MTA to determine what's  
truly a dynamic IP address, and that for the money I'm spending, my  
ISP really should give me a way to set up my reverse.  I guess either  
are as likely to happen as a certain operating system vendor fixing  
all their deployed units so that botnets are impossible. :/

- -Barry

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From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Mar  8 04:36:24 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 21:36:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with mailman external responses
In-Reply-To: <200703072108.l27L8ENN011387@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200703072108.l27L8ENN011387@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <p06240501c2153317d81d@[10.0.1.201]>

At 2:08 PM -0700 3/7/07, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

>  I'd really call a sendmail receiving site that blocks dynamic IP mail
>  as "misconfigured," when virtually all of the mail coming from such
>  IP's is spam.

On the python.org mail system, we do not accept e-mail from sites 
that don't have proper working reverse DNS set up for their IP 
address.

However, we do not refuse connections from networks that are known to 
be within dynamic IP address space from major providers -- some of 
our own key people (like Barry) use dynamic IP address space, and we 
wouldn't want to reject their connections or connections from anyone 
else doing the same.

So long as those addresses have proper reverse DNS set up for them, 
and they're not on one of the very conservative RBLs that we use, 
then they should be fine.  IMO, this is a reasonable balance to 
strike.


Most everything else we do is done within SpamBayes, which is a 
Bayesian anti-spam classification system written in Python, and 
maintained by various well-known people in the Python community (see 
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/spambayes> and 
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/spambayes>).

In this respect, we eat our own dog food, and run the same anti-spam 
processing system on our own machines as we provide for the benefit 
of the larger anti-spam community.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  8 06:06:19 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 21:06:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission issues
In-Reply-To: <dccc25c70703071312g296dc0efjc60987892b27f96d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030721061908288bc2a22f@msapiro>

Stefan Berglund wrote:
>
>Now I got some user/group issues.. It complains about postfix running the
>scripts(?) as "nobody" instead of "mailman". Some googling tells me that
>this is kindof common, and that postfix should use the same identity as the
>owner of the aliases file...?
>
>Right now I have this postfix config;
>
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases,
>             hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
>
>..and user mailman owns both these files. Something wrong there..?


/etc/mail/aliases should not have any Mailman aliases, so its ownership
is not relevant to Mailman. It is the group of the file
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases and /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db
that is important, not the owner. Postfix runs the pipe as the
user:group of the file it found the alias in. Mailman only cares about
the group.


>Also, I get some problem when I try to create a new list now, using the web
>interface. I get a "Oops, there was a bug" page, and looking at the mailman
>error log, it seems to be some kind of permission problem here also;
>
>...
>admin(29718):     os.mkdir(self.archive_dir()+'.mbox', 02775)
>admin(29718): OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/testlist.mbox'


If this one weren't so obvious to me, I would have wanted to see the
full traceback preceeding the above lines.


>And, looking at the path mentioned;
># ls -ld /usr/local/mailman/archives/private
>drwxr-s--x 4 mailman mailman 4096 Mar  7 14:52 /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/

Premissions on /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
 should be drwxrws--- at a minimum, but they probably need to be
drwxrws--x for public archives to work.

What is happening here is the web create cgi is running as the web
server user and mailman group because of the SETGID bit on the
wrapper. It does not have permission to create
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/testlist.mbox because
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/ is not group writable.


>It feels like I've missed to do some settings of permissions.. I run gentoo,
>and followed some gentoo guide.. Did I miss something? Does anyone have any
>tips?


Did you run bin/check_perms?

Also, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
regarding mailman permissions, security and group mismatch errors.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tron478 at googlemail.com  Thu Mar  8 10:52:40 2007
From: tron478 at googlemail.com (TRON478)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 10:52:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman an sendmail receiveing mails
Message-ID: <865f632b0703080152k7eaf41f1rb184cc20665d004d@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

i have set up mailman on a suse machine with sendmail. when i open the
administration site and subscribe i get mails (), but when i sent to the
list, the mail never arrives.

i have added the aliases in the alias file:

## point mailing list
point:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post point"
point-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin point"
point-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces point"
point-confirm:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm point"
point-join:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join point"
point-leave:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave point"
point-owner:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner point"
point-request:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request point"
point-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe point"
point-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe point"

and used the command "newaliases" with no errors. MTA is "manual". whats
wrong?

thanks
yavuz

From keepsakepoms at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar  8 11:04:30 2007
From: keepsakepoms at sbcglobal.net (Jessie)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 04:04:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] paper clip
Message-ID: <16ab01c76169$2cc951c0$c469e304@2500>

I'm sorry to come to the list with this. I have searched for an answer but have not been able to help myself. What can I do about the "paper clip" that shows up with each post that ha a hyperlinked signature? I allow attachments on my small list, but I would like to get rid of the "paper clip"


Jessie ~ 
Keepsake Pomeranians ~
web ~ www.mykeepsakes.net 
New Ch. Keepsakes Star Spangled Banner 

From tron478 at googlemail.com  Thu Mar  8 12:28:10 2007
From: tron478 at googlemail.com (TRON478)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 12:28:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck user: wwwrun group:mailman
Message-ID: <865f632b0703080328k7451c397jfb4c0c6e5071acfe@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

i have problems with mailman webinterface:

when is start and want to login i get the error "access denied for
data/adm.pw"

usr= root
grp=mailman
others = denied

when i manually set others to read it works. the same with the lists config
files. everytime when i change the configuration or add users to a list, i
get an error access denied list/config.pck

usr= wwwrun
group=mailman
others=denied

when i again set others to denied than it works, but nect time when i save a
change its set to denied again and mailman web dont open.

thanks
yavuz

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  8 16:10:52 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 07:10:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman an sendmail receiveing mails
In-Reply-To: <865f632b0703080152k7eaf41f1rb184cc20665d004d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030807105208124bcec5e0@msapiro>

TRON478 wrote:
>
>i have set up mailman on a suse machine with sendmail. when i open the
>administration site and subscribe i get mails (), but when i sent to the
>list, the mail never arrives.
>
>i have added the aliases in the alias file:
>
>## point mailing list
>point:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post point"
>point-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin point"
>point-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces point"
>point-confirm:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm point"
>point-join:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join point"
>point-leave:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave point"
>point-owner:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner point"
>point-request:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request point"
>point-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe point"
>point-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe point"
>
>and used the command "newaliases" with no errors. MTA is "manual". whats
>wrong?


What happens to the mail you send to the list? If it bounces, what does
the bounce email say? If not, what's in sendmail's maillog?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  8 16:16:45 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 07:16:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] paper clip
In-Reply-To: <16ab01c76169$2cc951c0$c469e304@2500>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030807164504682a6adf21@msapiro>

Jessie wrote:

>I'm sorry to come to the list with this. I have searched for an answer but have not been able to help myself. What can I do about the "paper clip" that shows up with each post that ha a hyperlinked signature? I allow attachments on my small list, but I would like to get rid of the "paper clip"


If this 'attachment' is the list footer, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  8 16:23:24 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 07:23:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck user: wwwrun group:mailman
In-Reply-To: <865f632b0703080328k7451c397jfb4c0c6e5071acfe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703080723240625446286e9@msapiro>

TRON478 wrote:
>
>i have problems with mailman webinterface:
>
>when is start and want to login i get the error "access denied for
>data/adm.pw"
>
>usr= root
>grp=mailman
>others = denied
>
>when i manually set others to read it works. the same with the lists config
>files. everytime when i change the configuration or add users to a list, i
>get an error access denied list/config.pck
>
>usr= wwwrun
>group=mailman
>others=denied
>
>when i again set others to denied than it works, but nect time when i save a
>change its set to denied again and mailman web dont open.


It seems that either the wrappers in Mailman's cgi-bin/ directory are
not group mailman and SETGID, or the SETGID bit is somehow not being
honored.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  8 17:07:26 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 08:07:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <20070305144409.GA6473@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030808072608592a6ae095@msapiro>

Paul Tomblin wrote:

>I'm having two problems with members of a list who are set to "no mail"
>but whose email address is no longer valid:
>- The bounce of the monthly password reminder, even though it is VERPed,
>  is not sufficient to remove them from the list because it's only one
>  bounce.  It would be nice if that bounce would trigger some additional
>  probing, possibly immediately going to the "you are disabled" warnings.


It would not be difficult to do a withlist script to list those members
with current bounce info and disabled delivery. You could run this a
day or so after the password reminders are sent to get a manual list
for further manual action.

I'm not sure that treating a bounce of a password reminder as an
immediate disable for bounce is a good idea. It is after all, just one
bounce. If you don't disable members for bounce after one single post
bounces, It probably isn't a good idea to do it for password reminders
either.

Another thought is that password reminders are sent from the 'mailman'
list. You could set the alias for mailman-bounces to deliver these to
a person.


>- I send the membership list of one particular list off as a cron job to a
>  friend who has a "backup list" for that one.  But there is no easy way
>  to remove addresses that are set to "no mail" from the output of
>  list_members.  What I want is the opposite of "list_members -n" to show
>  only members who aren't set to "no mail".


Have you tried "list_members -n enabled"? It's not documented, but it
works.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Thu Mar  8 17:11:53 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 11:11:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007030808072608592a6ae095@msapiro>
References: <20070305144409.GA6473@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC17602007030808072608592a6ae095@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070308161153.GA32397@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> >I'm having two problems with members of a list who are set to "no mail"
> >but whose email address is no longer valid:
> >- The bounce of the monthly password reminder, even though it is VERPed,
> >  is not sufficient to remove them from the list because it's only one
> >  bounce.  It would be nice if that bounce would trigger some additional
> >  probing, possibly immediately going to the "you are disabled" warnings.
> 
> 
> It would not be difficult to do a withlist script to list those members
> with current bounce info and disabled delivery. You could run this a
> day or so after the password reminders are sent to get a manual list
> for further manual action.
> 
> I'm not sure that treating a bounce of a password reminder as an
> immediate disable for bounce is a good idea. It is after all, just one
> bounce. If you don't disable members for bounce after one single post
> bounces, It probably isn't a good idea to do it for password reminders
> either.

The problem is that the bounce thresholds are set for the people who get
mail every mail.  The nomail members only get mail once a month, so
they'll never be removed.

> >- I send the membership list of one particular list off as a cron job to a
> >  friend who has a "backup list" for that one.  But there is no easy way
> >  to remove addresses that are set to "no mail" from the output of
> >  list_members.  What I want is the opposite of "list_members -n" to show
> >  only members who aren't set to "no mail".
> 
> 
> Have you tried "list_members -n enabled"? It's not documented, but it
> works.

Oh, shiny!  I might have tried that if it was documented.  Thanks.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"Panic kills"
                -- Rick Grant (quoting RCAF pilot training)

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Thu Mar  8 18:27:50 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 10:27:50 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman an sendmail receiveing mails
In-Reply-To: <865f632b0703080152k7eaf41f1rb184cc20665d004d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200703081727.l28HRotS000605@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed TRON478 has said:
> 
> hi,
> 
> i have set up mailman on a suse machine with sendmail. when i open the
> administration site and subscribe i get mails (), but when i sent to the
> list, the mail never arrives.
> 
> i have added the aliases in the alias file:
> 
> ## point mailing list
> point:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post point"
> point-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin point"

(snip)
> 
> and used the command "newaliases" with no errors. MTA is "manual". whats
> wrong?
> 

Your aliases file looks correct.  I'm not sure what you mean by
"manual."  Sendmail normally runs as background daemons.  

   smmsp  6626     1  0   Feb 17 ?        0:01 /usr/lib/sendmail -Ac -q15m
    root  6628     1  0   Feb 17 ?        1:29 /usr/lib/sendmail -bd -q15m

Check that all your Mailman qrunners are running.

 mailman  6903  1110  0   Mar 02 ?        0:01 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -
 mailman  6902  1110  0   Mar 02 ?        0:01 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1
 mailman  6897  1110  0   Mar 02 ?        1:20 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 
 mailman  6901  1110  0   Mar 02 ?       37:35 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
 mailman  6898  1110  0   Mar 02 ?       46:29 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:
 mailman  6899  1110  0   Mar 02 ?        2:47 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:
vancleef   602   493  0 10:24:12 pts/3    0:00 grep qrun
 mailman  6900  1110  0   Mar 02 ?        0:44 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 
 mailman  6904  1110  0   Mar 02 ?        0:01 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s

If you can send mail to and from  a local non-Mailman account, then
your sendmail installation is OK.  Important thing is to configure
sendmail properly and test it first.  You should have sendmail checked
out and running in daemon mode before trying to integrate it with
Mailman

Try sending mail to the -owner account (point-owner) and see if it
gets sent to the list administrator addresses.  That bypasses any
options in the Mailman configuration that apply to list postings. Once
that is working try sending a message to your list address.

Read your logs.  Sendmail shows the send to Mailman (example below,
includes demime filter in the pipe)

Mar  5 05:32:12 julie sendmail[18773]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
l25CW9qH018772: to= "|/usr/local/mailman/bin/demime -8bit -x '==' '==/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mylist'", ctladdr=<mylist at mylistlist.com> (1/0), delay=00:00:02, xde lay=00:00:02, mailer=prog, pri=33715, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

That says that the message went to Mailman.  Go to the Mailman logs
and check them.  If Mailman is not sending out messages to list
addresses, the logs generally tell you why it isn't.  

Hank

From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Thu Mar  8 18:35:47 2007
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:35:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman an sendmail receiveing mails
In-Reply-To: <865f632b0703080152k7eaf41f1rb184cc20665d004d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C2158973.120DA%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 3/8/07 1:52 AM, "TRON478" <tron478 at googlemail.com> wrote:

> i have set up mailman on a suse machine with sendmail. when i open the
> administration site and subscribe i get mails (), but when i sent to the
> list, the mail never arrives.

You sent the message to which I'm replying from Gmail.  If you sent the test
message that way, and it was intended to go back to the Gmail account, it
won't.

Google is being helpful, and hiding the message that comes back from the
list since it thinks you already have a copy.

I'm pretty sure this is in the Mailman FAQ, but I seem to be too dumb to
find it.  (This morning, anyhow.)

Of course, if you didn't send the test message from Gmail, then the above
isn't the problem.

  --John





From privyhum at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  9 00:14:15 2007
From: privyhum at yahoo.com (Herman Privyhum)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 15:14:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
Message-ID: <690694.395.qm@web39712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I'm using Mailman in conjunction with Exim on FreeBSD
5.3 to support a small mailing list (60 members).  All
messages have been taking just over 105 seconds to
deliver, according to /usr/local/mailman/log/smtp.  

After searching through the archives to this list, I
found that a garbage line in /etc/hosts was
responsible for 75 seconds worth of that.  Now we're
down to consistently just over 30 seconds.

Where else should I look for things that could be
causing this?  Exim only has problems with mail routed
through Mailman.

Herman




 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos? 
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Mar  9 00:42:47 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 15:42:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <690694.395.qm@web39712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <690694.395.qm@web39712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200703082343.l28NgleS018587@unreal.eroded.org>

Herman Privyhum sent the message below at 15:14 3/8/2007:

>I'm using Mailman in conjunction with Exim on FreeBSD
>5.3 to support a small mailing list (60 members).  All
>messages have been taking just over 105 seconds to
>deliver, according to /usr/local/mailman/log/smtp.
>
>After searching through the archives to this list, I
>found that a garbage line in /etc/hosts was
>responsible for 75 seconds worth of that.  Now we're
>down to consistently just over 30 seconds.
>
>Where else should I look for things that could be
>causing this?  Exim only has problems with mail routed
>through Mailman.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

This may just be the time needed to resolve the dns lookups for the 
outgoing mail.

You may want to consider using a caching dns resolver to cache the 
sddresses for some reasonable period. Getting the resolved addresses 
out of cache will be much faster than attempting to resolve them over 
the network every time.

Then again, I could be completely off here and something else is 
causing the delay. I don't know Exim at all and sendmail only in the 
barest manner so I cannot be much help beyond this.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Mar  9 00:52:26 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 17:52:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <690694.395.qm@web39712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <690694.395.qm@web39712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240506c21650cebfdd@[10.0.1.201]>

At 3:14 PM -0800 3/8/07, Herman Privyhum wrote:

>  Where else should I look for things that could be
>  causing this?  Exim only has problems with mail routed
>  through Mailman.

Look at your MTA logs.  They should show you when a given message 
comes in for a given user, and when that is successfully transmitted. 
I'd be willing to bet you're waiting on DNS timeouts at the remote 
end for one or more of your users -- their MTA is slowing you down, 
maybe as a result of trying to do a reverse DNS lookup on your IP 
address.

If you haven't already enabled it, try turning on full 
personalization, so that you send a unique copy of the message to 
each recipient.  For each recipient, look at the date/time stamp of 
when the message goes into Exim and when Exim says that the remote 
end has accepted the message.  That should tell you where things are 
slowing down.

Maybe it's not a DNS timeout, maybe it's a timeout of some other 
sort.  Maybe it's a result of doing anti-spam/anti-virus processing 
on inbound as well as outbound e-mail.  Maybe their mail servers are 
just very slow.  But at least you should know where the slowdown is 
coming from.


You may also be able to turn on some increased parallelism in the 
delivery process, so that other recipients can be handled while 
you're waiting on the slower sites to respond.

But I wouldn't feel bad at getting everything out in 30 seconds.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  9 02:55:21 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 17:55:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <20070308161153.GA32397@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703081755210640c4dfbb15@msapiro>

Paul Tomblin wrote:

>Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
>> 
>> I'm not sure that treating a bounce of a password reminder as an
>> immediate disable for bounce is a good idea. It is after all, just one
>> bounce. If you don't disable members for bounce after one single post
>> bounces, It probably isn't a good idea to do it for password reminders
>> either.
>
>The problem is that the bounce thresholds are set for the people who get
>mail every mail.  The nomail members only get mail once a month, so
>they'll never be removed.


I understand that that is the problem, but they'll never be removed
anyway because password reminders come from the site (mailman) list,
and any bounced password reminder is returned to mailman-bounces and
ignored since the user being reminded is not a member of the mailman
list.

That being the case, my previous suggestion that you could list
delivery disabled members that have current bounce info with a
withlist or other script won't work either, because they won't have
any bounce info for a bounced password reminder.

Thus, I think I'm back to my other thought which is that in the short
term, the best you can do is arrange for mail to the mailman-bounces
address to be seen by a human.

In the longer term (Mailman 2.2) password reminders and the site list
are both going away.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  9 03:06:06 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 18:06:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <690694.395.qm@web39712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030818060600317aabafc5@msapiro>

Herman Privyhum wrote:
>
>All
>messages have been taking just over 105 seconds to
>deliver, according to /usr/local/mailman/log/smtp.  
>
>After searching through the archives to this list, I
>found that a garbage line in /etc/hosts was
>responsible for 75 seconds worth of that.  Now we're
>down to consistently just over 30 seconds.
>
>Where else should I look for things that could be
>causing this?  Exim only has problems with mail routed
>through Mailman.


Keep in mind that this SMTP transaction with Exim has 60 RCPT TO
commands and responses which is probably where most of the time is
spent. If Exim is doing DNS verifies on the recipient domains during
the incoming SMTP, 0.5 sec per recipient may not be that bad.

The solution is to not do DNS verification on mail from localhost. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.011.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Mar  9 03:07:47 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 21:07:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703081755210640c4dfbb15@msapiro>
References: <20070308161153.GA32397@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC1760200703081755210640c4dfbb15@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070309020747.GA27142@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> In the longer term (Mailman 2.2) password reminders and the site list
> are both going away.

*All* password reminders are going away?  I'm kind of worried about that -
I get enough emails from people who say "can you change my email address
to foo at gmail", I'm pretty sure that without the monthly reminders I'd get
three times as many.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Please say this was followed by a very serious discussion on Right and
Wrong involving a blow torch, 220V, a cobra and three East Germans
named Georg...  -- Robert Uhl

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  9 03:16:10 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 18:16:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman an sendmail receiveing mails
In-Reply-To: <200703081727.l28HRotS000605@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030818161005938217f01b@msapiro>

vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

>The esteemed TRON478 has said:
>> 
>> and used the command "newaliases" with no errors. MTA is "manual". whats
>> wrong?
>> 
>
>Your aliases file looks correct.  I'm not sure what you mean by
>"manual."


MTA = 'Manual'

is what you put in mm_cfg.py (actually, you don't need to because it's
the default) in order to have Mailman mail you a list of aliases to be
manually inserted in /etc/aliases or wherever when you create a new
list.

Note however that it is 'Manual', not 'manual'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  9 03:31:31 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 18:31:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <20070309020747.GA27142@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703081831310468db2474d3@msapiro>

Paul Tomblin wrote:
>
>*All* password reminders are going away?  I'm kind of worried about that -
>I get enough emails from people who say "can you change my email address
>to foo at gmail", I'm pretty sure that without the monthly reminders I'd get
>three times as many.


User passwords are (finally) going to be encrypted, so there's no way
to send a reminder. The existing, on demand reminder will be replaced
by a reset function of some kind. See
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>.

My experience is that the users who take responsibility for themselves
will remember their passwords or figure out how to get a reset. The
others will ask the list owner even if they received a reminder
yesterday.

It would be interesting to keep track of requests from users for things
they can do for themselves to see if the frequency of requests is
greater towards the end of the month. I haven't done this, but I
suspect it's not.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  9 04:29:35 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 19:29:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header
In-Reply-To: <45EEBF93.2010006@cnpf.embrapa.br>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703081929350828ea6c71bf@msapiro>

Gerson Rino Prantl Oaida wrote:
>
>I have the mailman with freebsd and postfix.
>My hostname is "host.domain.com", and the list is 
>"list at host.domain.com", but I want "list at domain.com".


Where are you seeing "list at host.domain.com"? If on Mailman web pages in
List-* headers in mail from Mailman, you need to go to

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

and search for fix_url and read the returned articles, or you may just
need to change the host_name attribute on the list's General Options
page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  9 04:46:42 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 19:46:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail delivery fails with "(-2,
	'Name or service not known')"
In-Reply-To: <20070307155406.z6in1g054wwokwss@webmail.windowslinux.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703081946420515a85bb08d@msapiro>

noc at windowslinux.net wrote:
>
>When I try to access to python shell with mailman user ( @#" su  
>mailman ") I've got a error :
>"This account is currently not available."


Try running these as any 'ordinary' user - not root.

Also try sending mail using the example in the post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-May/044746.html>.

If the "x = smtplib.SMTP()" in this script succeeds, but there is a
failure after that, try adding

x.set_debuglevel(1)

immediately following

x = smtplib.SMTP()


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Fri Mar  9 04:46:56 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 20:46:56 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <200703082343.l28NgleS018587@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <200703090346.l293kusN028021@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Dragon has said:
> 
> This may just be the time needed to resolve the dns lookups for the 
> outgoing mail.
> 
> You may want to consider using a caching dns resolver to cache the 
> sddresses for some reasonable period. Getting the resolved addresses 
> out of cache will be much faster than attempting to resolve them over 
> the network every time.
> 
> Then again, I could be completely off here and something else is 
> causing the delay. I don't know Exim at all and sendmail only in the 
> barest manner so I cannot be much help beyond this.
> 

Maybe this is a good time to ask just how DNS-intensive the
non-sendmail MTA's are.  I am finishing off the basics on installing
sendmail with Mailman, and am including some discussion of the need to
install a good fast-response caching DNS server to work with sendmail.

There is very little discussion in the sendmail literature about DNS,
except for an acknowledgement that sendmail uses DNS intensively if 
it's in the "hosts" line in nsswitch.conf (Solaris name).  

I have to confess that I was a bit slow on the uptake to install local
DNS on my systems.  The folks at upstream feed, whose DNS servers I was 
using, said, "you do plan to install local DNS, don't you," with a
certain pointedness.  I dawdled until I could get the 5th edition of 
Liu and Albitz "DNS and BIND" (O'Reilly, 2006), which has a chapter on
DNS and SMTP mail, and after reading through sat down to install a
caching server immediately.  

The results were just plain startling.  I wish I'd done this five
years ago.  

Since then I've installed master and slave servers for my Intranet
LAN, but I would heartly recommend having at least a plain caching
server on the box that's running the MTA.  

While all of my experience is with sendmail, I'm inclined to suspect
that the other MTA's all can stand a shot of local DNS service.
Anybody who can confirm this for Postfix, Exim, etc.?  

Hank


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Mar  9 04:48:23 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 22:48:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703081831310468db2474d3@msapiro>
References: <20070309020747.GA27142@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC1760200703081831310468db2474d3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070309034823.GA9644@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> User passwords are (finally) going to be encrypted, so there's no way
> to send a reminder. The existing, on demand reminder will be replaced

Ohh, good idea.

> It would be interesting to keep track of requests from users for things
> they can do for themselves to see if the frequency of requests is
> greater towards the end of the month. I haven't done this, but I
> suspect it's not.

In my experience, the first day or two of the month is where most people
do their own maintenance (unsubscribe, change their address, subscribe a
new address), and also where I get the majority of the requests that need
the form letter.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"It's 106 light-years to Chicago, we've got a full chamber of anti-matter,
a half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing visors."
"Engage."

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Fri Mar  9 05:19:27 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 21:19:27 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703081755210640c4dfbb15@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200703090419.l294JRwG029303@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Mark Sapiro has said:
> 
> In the longer term (Mailman 2.2) password reminders and the site list
> are both going away.
> 
Tell me that isn't true, Mark.  From this mail list administrator's
perspective, "I can't find/use my password" ranks just below the AOL
flaming demands that we unsubscribe them NOW!  You can tell what time
of the month it is, because the whines about passwords rise to a
crescendo the last week of the month and then vanish after the
password reminders are sent out.  

I hope that, if you default to not mailing out monthly reminders, you
leave a mechanism in there for doing it that a site administrator can
turn on.  My partner and I have discussed changing the cron task to
flush those reminders twice a month.

Hank

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Mar  9 05:37:48 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 22:37:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <200703090346.l293kusN028021@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200703090346.l293kusN028021@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <p06240500c21691aecff8@[192.168.168.196]>

At 8:46 PM -0700 3/8/07, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

>  Maybe this is a good time to ask just how DNS-intensive the
>  non-sendmail MTA's are.  I am finishing off the basics on installing
>  sendmail with Mailman, and am including some discussion of the need to
>  install a good fast-response caching DNS server to work with sendmail.

All MTAs I know of are pretty DNS-intensive in their operation.  The 
more anti-spam or anti-virus filtering you do, or the more other 
things you do to check the incoming mail, the more DNS-intensive that 
work is going to be.

Of course, most MTAs should give you options on how to configure them 
so that they don't generate any DNS traffic at all, but then what 
you're doing is effectively turning off about 99.99% of what the MTA 
is intended to do when handling mail.


In this respect, I don't think that sendmail is necessarily much 
worse or much better than any other MTA.

>  Since then I've installed master and slave servers for my Intranet
>  LAN, but I would heartly recommend having at least a plain caching
>  server on the box that's running the MTA.

Years ago, this was actually a bit of a sore point amongst the 
experts.  Some said that you were better off having a smaller number 
of centralized caching nameservers, which handled all DNS traffic for 
the entire network.

Others said that you're better off having caching nameservers running 
on each box, to spread that load out.


Of course, the issue there is that Box A might do a DNS query of some 
sort, and retrieve data that could later be used by Box B, but if 
both machines are running their own nameservers as opposed to a 
centralized caching nameserver, then both machines will end up doing 
the same query, causing increased load on the remote end, etc....

Moreover, large caching nameservers can take up hundreds of megabytes 
(or even a couple of gigabytes) of RAM, so if you've got servers that 
are already using lots of RAM to process all their "real" work, then 
you may not have enough RAM to also run a large caching nameserver on 
the box.

Finally, sometimes consistency is more important than raw speed.  In 
other words, sometimes it's more important that the clients see that 
they get the same answers regardless of which server they ask, and 
the actual raw performance is not quite so important.  For example, 
when an AOL user sends e-mail to a remote recipient, it would be 
really bad for that user to get "okay, message accepted" on the first 
try and then "invalid domain" on the second try, and then get "okay, 
message accepted" on the third try, or whatever.  Since the DNS 
changes frequently, you could easily wind up with some pretty 
radically different views of the world on different servers, based on 
when they asked what questions.


To solve all these issues, what was recommended was a hybrid 
approach.  Run local caching-only servers on each box, but then have 
them forward all outgoing queries to a central set of caching-only 
nameservers.

The local nameserver would short-circuit all the repetitive queries 
from the same application to talk to the same remote system, while 
the centralized caching nameservers would ensure that everyone gets 
the same answer to a particular question, and would ensure that you 
don't actually send your queries to the outside world unless no 
machine at that site had asked that question within the time-to-live 
of the answer.


DNS experts now agree that it's a generally a bad idea to have 
hierarchies of nameservers, although the overall problems have not 
otherwise changed.

So, pick your poison, but don't try to go with the hybrid approach. 
It creates too much of a central bottleneck and slows things down, 
and it also reduces your overall reliability of the system.


Of course, all detailed DNS questions should be asked on the 
appropriate mailing lists and/or newsgroups, although I can try to 
summarize as best I can -- I was a technical reviewer of 2nd edition 
of Cricket's book, and I'm in the process of writing my own book on 
DNS security.

>  While all of my experience is with sendmail, I'm inclined to suspect
>  that the other MTA's all can stand a shot of local DNS service.
>  Anybody who can confirm this for Postfix, Exim, etc.?

All MTAs I know of make intensive use of the DNS -- sendmail, 
postfix, Exim, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Mar  9 05:40:16 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 22:40:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <200703090419.l294JRwG029303@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200703090419.l294JRwG029303@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <p06240501c216953ca503@[192.168.168.196]>

At 9:19 PM -0700 3/8/07, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

>  Tell me that isn't true, Mark.  From this mail list administrator's
>  perspective, "I can't find/use my password" ranks just below the AOL
>  flaming demands that we unsubscribe them NOW!

Who needs periodic reminders, when there will be a reset mechanism 
that the user can make use of at any time of their choosing?

I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing the reason why you would ever want to 
continue using the reminder mechanism, when you can just go to a 
page, enter in your e-mail address, and have the system generate a 
new password for you and send it to you by e-mail.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From privyhum at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  9 06:44:50 2007
From: privyhum at yahoo.com (Herman Privyhum)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 21:44:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <p06240506c21650cebfdd@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <652475.11968.qm@web39704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


--- Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:

> I'd be willing to bet you're waiting on DNS timeouts
> at the remote end for one or more of your users 
> -- their MTA is slowing you down,  maybe as a 
> result of trying to do a reverse DNS lookup on 
> your IP address.

Thanks to all for the thorough replies.  It appears
that the solution actually lies in disabling ident.

In Exim, this is achieved by setting the timeout to 0.

    #rfc1413_query_timeout = 30s
    rfc1413_query_timeout = 0s

I may go back and turn it on again with a smaller
timeout (suggestions as to how long is reasonable?). 

Before:

Mar 08 15:18:33 2007 (35218)
<p0624081fc2163bb796bf at OBSCURED> smtp for 60 recips,
completed in 211.309 seconds

After:

Mar 08 19:48:40 2007 (553)
<008301c761fd$9d43e0c0$6704010a at OBSCURED> smtp for 61
recips, completed in 1.792 seconds

Cheers,

Herman


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate 
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Mar  9 07:00:06 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 00:00:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <652475.11968.qm@web39704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <652475.11968.qm@web39704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c216a7d400aa@[10.0.1.201]>

At 9:44 PM -0800 3/8/07, Herman Privyhum wrote:

>  Thanks to all for the thorough replies.  It appears
>  that the solution actually lies in disabling ident.

Ahh, yes.  You should definitely disable IDENT.  I didn't know that 
any modern MTAs actually used it.

>  I may go back and turn it on again with a smaller
>  timeout (suggestions as to how long is reasonable?).

Just leave it turned off.  Using it means that you trust the other 
end to not lie to you, and on the modern Internet you can't trust the 
other end to do much of anything.  You have to assume that all remote 
machines will always lie to you, and therefore you can't trust 
anything they send you.

At the very least, if you're going to use it, make sure you only use 
it on your local network of machines that you control.  On those 
machines, you could use a lower timeout, such as ten or fifteen 
seconds.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From privyhum at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  9 07:16:12 2007
From: privyhum at yahoo.com (Herman Privyhum)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 22:16:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c216a7d400aa@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <851976.23011.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


--- Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:

> Ahh, yes.  You should definitely disable IDENT.  I
> didn't know that  any modern MTAs actually 
> used it.

Here's Philip Hazel's rationale:

http://xrl.us/u8pf (Link to www.exim.org)

Herman


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service!  Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Mar  9 08:04:23 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 01:04:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <851976.23011.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <851976.23011.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c216b65466cf@[10.0.1.201]>

At 10:16 PM -0800 3/8/07, Herman Privyhum wrote:

>  http://xrl.us/u8pf (Link to www.exim.org)

So Phil says that he runs a trustworthy IDENT server on his box. 
Fine.  But plenty of spammers, phishers, and other nefarious types 
out there will try to use IDENT as another vector to exploit for use 
in breaking into your system, or for tricking you into believing 
whatever lies they want you to believe.

Unfortunately, there isn't a trustworthy system to tell you which 
sites run trustworthy IDENT servers.  So, you've got to decide what 
the relative risks and values are.

Moreover, damn few sites run multiuser systems like that anymore. 
With NAT, you could hide hundreds or millions of machines behind a 
single IP address, and IDENT to the NAT/firewall box would be pretty 
meaningless.


Sorry.  IDENT was useful fifteen or twenty years ago, but there are 
far too many holes in that technique these days.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Mar  9 08:45:20 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 01:45:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c216b65466cf@[10.0.1.201]>
References: <851976.23011.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06240500c216b65466cf@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <p06240501c216b79db3d6@[10.0.1.201]>

At 1:04 AM -0600 3/9/07, Brad Knowles quoted Herman Privyhum:
>
>>   http://xrl.us/u8pf (Link to www.exim.org)
>
>  So Phil says that he runs a trustworthy IDENT server on his box.

BTW, that article is eight years old now.  Eight years in "real" time 
is over five Internet generations.  We were still working on Web 0.9 
at the time, much less Web 2.0.

RFC 2780 was published in March of 2000.  RFC 4856 was just recently 
published, in February of 2007.  That's 2076 RFCs published since 
Phil's article was originally posted.


Thanks mostly to the Hobbes Internet Timeline (see 
<http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/>), we know that 2000 
was the year that Internet2 backbone network deployed IPv6.  The year 
that Mexico finally got a fully operational connection to Internet2. 
The year that the French court ruled Yahoo! must block French users 
from accessing hate memorabilia in its auction site.  Technologies of 
the year were ASP, Napster, and DeCSS.

2001 was the year of Grid Computing and P2P.  2002 was the year of 
the FBI teaming up with Terra Lycos to disseminate virtual wanted 
posts across the Web portal's properties -- does anyone even remember 
Terra Lycos anymore?  2003 was the year that PIR took over as the 
.org registry operator, the Recording Industry Association of America 
(RIAA) sued 261 individuals on 8 Sep for allegedly distributing 
copyright music files over peer-to-peer networks, and VeriSign 
deployed a wildcard service (Site Finder) into the .com and .net TLDs 
causing much confusion as URLs with invalid domains are redirected to 
a VeriSign page.  2004 was the year that Network Solutions began 
offering 100 year domain registration, VeriSign Naming and Directory 
Service (VNDS) began updating all 13 .com/.net authoritative name 
servers in near real-time vs. twice each day, and the Internet Worm 
called MyDoom (or Novarg), spread through Internet servers.  2005 was 
the year that YouTube.com was launched.

Estimates of the size of the Internet, by year:

	01/00    72,398,092
	07/00    93,047,785
	01/01   109,574,429
	07/01   125,888,197
	01/02   147,344,723
	07/02   162,128,493
	01/03   171,638,297
	01/04   233,101,481
	07/04   285,139,107
	01/05   317,646,084
	07/05   353,284,187
	01/06   394,991,609
	07/06   439,286,364

Growth factor = 439286364/72398092 = 6.06765


According to the wikipedia page at 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phishing>, the first known example of 
Phishing outside of AOL didn't occur until June of 2001.  I quote:

	By 2004, phishing was recognized as fully industrialized, in
	the sense of an economy of crime: specializations emerged on
	a global scale and provided components for cash which were
	assembled into a finished attack.



I'm sorry.  I don't see how Phil's views from eight years ago on this 
subject are relevant to how computer systems should be operated in 
this modern world.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From privyhum at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  9 14:15:34 2007
From: privyhum at yahoo.com (Herman Privyhum)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 05:15:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c216b79db3d6@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <510038.45162.qm@web39711.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


--- Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:

> I'm sorry.  I don't see how Phil's views from eight
> years ago on this subject are relevant to how 
> computer systems should be operated in 
> this modern world.

Thanks for the in-depth commentary.  

Here's the modern FAQ entry, FWIW: 

<http://www.exim.org/eximwiki/FAQ/Miscellaneous/Q5023>

(The reasoning does not differ substantially from that
in Hazel's seven-year-old email.)

If disabling IDENT is so crucial, as both you and my
experience with a triflingly small list seem to argue,
it must be important to amend the Mailman-Exim Howto,
no? 

Found here: http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html

Linked from here:
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/docs.html

Herman


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time 
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Mar  9 14:44:49 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 08:44:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c216953ca503@[192.168.168.196]>
References: <200703090419.l294JRwG029303@julie.lostwells.net>
	<p06240501c216953ca503@[192.168.168.196]>
Message-ID: <20070309134449.GA2985@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Brad Knowles (brad at shub-internet.org):
> At 9:19 PM -0700 3/8/07, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:
> 
> >  Tell me that isn't true, Mark.  From this mail list administrator's
> >  perspective, "I can't find/use my password" ranks just below the AOL
> >  flaming demands that we unsubscribe them NOW!
> 
> Who needs periodic reminders, when there will be a reset mechanism 
> that the user can make use of at any time of their choosing?

I give up.

I'm starting to think that my average mailing list user won't remember the
URL they used to subscribe, they don't file away that email they get when
they subscribe with all the instructions, that they don't read the footer
on every message, and they don't read the monthly message.

At least one idiot reported his monthly message to SpamCop, which reported
it to my isp at the time, which suspended ALL of my access to their
outgoing mail server for a couple of days while they investigated.
Another idiot asked why he was on a cross country skiing list when he
signed up for a Linux users group mailing list (my domain name is
xcski.com).  I explained that if he couldn't tell the difference between
the domain name part and the user part of a mail address, then perhaps
Linux isn't the OS for him and sent him the address of the local Apple
users group.

Because of all that, I'm resigned to having to respond to mailing list
members emailing me demands to change their address, unsubscribe them, or
whatever piece of mailing list trivia they want.  There doesn't seem to be
any way around it.  I have a form letter that I send back to them.  The
form letter makes it look like I don't read their request, but mostly I do
for the amusement value.

If these requests for human intervention go up when the monthly reminder
mails go away, I may have to make my own monthly reminder mail.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
You'll get access to my computer room right after you pry the Halon test
key out of my cold, lifeless hands.
              -- Simon Travaglia

From chris at westnet.com  Fri Mar  9 15:48:45 2007
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:48:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c216b65466cf@[10.0.1.201]>
References: <851976.23011.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06240500c216b65466cf@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0703090940270.19629@westnet.com>

On Fri, 9 Mar 2007, Brad Knowles wrote:

> So Phil says that he runs a trustworthy IDENT server on his box. 
> Fine.  But plenty of spammers, phishers, and other nefarious types 
> out there will try to use IDENT as another vector to exploit for use 
> in breaking into your system, or for tricking you into believing 
> whatever lies they want you to believe.

This is a common misconception of what IDENT is/was for.  IDENT was not 
intended to provide reliable authentication, as to who owned a connection. 
Rather, IDENT was a way of providing information such that a sysadmin could 
figure out later which of their own users had done something bad, or had 
their account compromised.

People then started using it this way, possibly due to the inclusion in tcp 
wrappers, but as I recall it wasn't the original purpose.

In other words, as the recipient I have no reason to trust the string. But 
if I am on the reciving end of an attack from a multi-user machine and am 
reporting it to the owner of the machine, I would give them the IDENT data I 
capture so they can better track what happened on their machine.
And even on a non-multi user machine, it could help narrow down what process 
was compromised.

There was at least one IDENT server that would return a seemingly random 
string, that could be decrypted by the sysadmin to know what the account was 
without divulging the actual name to the outside.


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 948-3162
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  9 17:35:12 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 08:35:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <20070309134449.GA2985@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703090835120078aceba27a@msapiro>

Paul Tomblin wrote:
>
>I'm starting to think that my average mailing list user won't remember the
>URL they used to subscribe, they don't file away that email they get when
>they subscribe with all the instructions, that they don't read the footer
>on every message, and they don't read the monthly message.


Sadly, I think this is true, and it argues that for this group of users
at least, the reminders are useless anyway.

But, for those for whom they are useful, here's a possibility. This is
not a promise, but rather a suggestion. I first saw it it a comment by
Glen Seib on the wiki <http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>.

The suggestion (with interpretation by me) is that the list owner could
provide a text template with substitutable parameters such as list
name, user email, user options url, etc. as a list attribute. This
could be used to remind users of list procedures and policies, how to
get a password reset, whatever you want. It would be sent periodically
to all list members. It would not be a list post, so it wouldn't be
archived, and it would be personalized even if the list normally
wasn't.

To bring this thread back around to its beginning, there could also be
a mechanism to treat a bounce of this message differently from a
bounce of a post or digest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From josh at pha.jhu.edu  Fri Mar  9 17:49:17 2007
From: josh at pha.jhu.edu (Josh Greenberg)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:49:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] shunt
Message-ID: <45F1900D.8050403@pha.jhu.edu>

Earlier today one of my users sent a message out to a list but it never 
got there. It took a long time to figure out what happened to this 
message but when we finally found it, it had been shunted. There was an 
entry in the mailman error log that read "Mar 09 11:26:51 2007 (9048) 
SHUNTING: 1173457464.059757+0856bb6e7edddefed75767308c85d69536288426" 
and we had to find this message in the /var/spool/mailman/shunt 
directory and release it. There were other messages in the error log 
surrounding this one about an "uncaught runner exception: unknown 
encoding:" and then it listed the subject of a message that had been 
posted previously to the list.

I'm completely unfamiliar with this shunting process and its kind of 
disturbing that mailman would quietly discard a perfectly good message 
that had been sent by an approved sender and not throw any errors except 
this cryptic line in the error log. I can't find any good documentation 
on shunting either. Can someone explain what happened here or point me 
to some docs that might help? Thanks.

Josh

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Mar  9 18:18:58 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 12:18:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703090835120078aceba27a@msapiro>
References: <20070309134449.GA2985@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC1760200703090835120078aceba27a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070309171858.GA4176@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> But, for those for whom they are useful, here's a possibility. This is
> not a promise, but rather a suggestion. I first saw it it a comment by
> Glen Seib on the wiki <http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>.
> 
> The suggestion (with interpretation by me) is that the list owner could
> provide a text template with substitutable parameters such as list
> name, user email, user options url, etc. as a list attribute. This
> could be used to remind users of list procedures and policies, how to
> get a password reset, whatever you want. It would be sent periodically
> to all list members. It would not be a list post, so it wouldn't be
> archived, and it would be personalized even if the list normally
> wasn't.
> 
> To bring this thread back around to its beginning, there could also be
> a mechanism to treat a bounce of this message differently from a
> bounce of a post or digest.

That would be awesome.  That would be everything I've ever wanted in a
monthly reminder.  I assume it would be VERPed the way existing monthly
reminders can be, right?

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Flying is the perfect vocation for a man who wants to feel like a boy, but
not for one who still is.

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  9 18:20:34 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:20:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] shunt
In-Reply-To: <45F1900D.8050403@pha.jhu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030909203402650669fd6b@msapiro>

Josh Greenberg wrote:
>
>I'm completely unfamiliar with this shunting process and its kind of 
>disturbing that mailman would quietly discard a perfectly good message 
>that had been sent by an approved sender and not throw any errors except 
>this cryptic line in the error log. I can't find any good documentation 
>on shunting either. Can someone explain what happened here or point me 
>to some docs that might help? Thanks.


Processing of that message did throw an otherwise uncaught exception.
The two entries in the error log immediately preceding the 'shunting'
message with the same or almost the same timestamp give more detail.

The first of these says "Uncaught runner exception:" and gives the
exception. This is followed by a traceback of the error, and these two
messages are followed by the "SHUNTING:" message.

If you post the full traceback entry, we can help you understand what
the problem was with the message.

If you ran bin/unshunt and the message processed without error the
second time, then it must have been a transient situation of some kind
that caused the first exception. Please post the traceback so we can
see what happened.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Fri Mar  9 18:25:10 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 10:25:10 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c21691aecff8@[192.168.168.196]>
Message-ID: <200703091725.l29HPAHR008677@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Brad Knowles has said:
> 
> At 8:46 PM -0700 3/8/07, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:
> 
> >  Maybe this is a good time to ask just how DNS-intensive the
> >  non-sendmail MTA's are.  I am finishing off the basics on installing
> >  sendmail with Mailman, and am including some discussion of the need to
> >  install a good fast-response caching DNS server to work with sendmail.
> 
> All MTAs I know of are pretty DNS-intensive in their operation.  The 
> more anti-spam or anti-virus filtering you do, or the more other 
> things you do to check the incoming mail, the more DNS-intensive that 
> work is going to be.
> 
> Of course, most MTAs should give you options on how to configure them 
> so that they don't generate any DNS traffic at all, but then what 
> you're doing is effectively turning off about 99.99% of what the MTA 
> is intended to do when handling mail.
> 
Thanks for the confirmation of what I'd suspected.  Since I've lived
with sendmail "ever since there was a sendmail" (not true, I think
more like "since 1988"), I haven't tried to work with the other MTA's.

The need for a quick, robust, and reliable name service is in the
nature of the beast, particularly when supporting a mail list server,
where one incoming mail goes out to a thousand (if not "thousands")
addresses.   

I'm not going to try to address LDAP, NIS or NIS+.  It takes about ten
minutes to set up the tables for named for a caching server.  That
is what I would recommend for the shop that's currenly using
/etc/hosts and remote (i.e. "somebody else's") DNS servers for
everything external.
> 
> >  Since then I've installed master and slave servers for my Intranet
> >  LAN, but I would heartly recommend having at least a plain caching
> >  server on the box that's running the MTA.
> 
> Years ago, this was actually a bit of a sore point amongst the 
> experts.  Some said that you were better off having a smaller number 
> of centralized caching nameservers, which handled all DNS traffic for 
> the entire network.
> 
> Others said that you're better off having caching nameservers running 
> on each box, to spread that load out.
> 
I'm going to snip this discussion of how to configure DNS on a site
here.  For one thing, I think that we need to keep the focus on
Mailman, and simply answer the question "do you need local name
service with Mailman?" with "Yes."  

For another, Cricket Liu and Paul Albitz, in the current 5th edition
(2006) of "DNS and BIND" have done a very good job of discussing far
more of the ins and outs of configuring DNS in a 600-page book.  They
devote an entire chapter to DNS with Unix mail.  

For Mailman support purposes, for both sendmail and DNS, I think we
need to focus on a "keep it simple" approach.  Both my site and the
former Mailman host site for my primary list are "one worker, one box,
one routable IP" sites, where Mailman, Apache, sendmail, and named all
get handled on a single node.  I also administer another ISP site 400
miles away (along with five others) that has separate boxes for login
server, mail server, web server, news server, NFS RAID server, and two 
DNS servers, all with their own routable IP's.  We did put Mailman on
that site as well.  Suffice it to say that there are a few differences
in sendmail, apache, and named configurations between those two sites, 
none of which affect Mailman.  

So I'd have to say, Mailman with sendmail and BIND DNS, yes, very easy
to do.  Follow Barry Warsaw's excellent Mailman build guide, go
through four steps to configure sendmail (I'm about to send this off
to the list), configure your DNS per Liu and Albitz, and go.  Needless
to say, doing this on an earthlink-sized system and doing it on a
one-box oldfogey.net system aren't the same in many ways that are
quite separate from Mailman considerations.  

Hank

From mike.maughan at gmail.com  Fri Mar  9 18:38:16 2007
From: mike.maughan at gmail.com (Mike Maughan)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 17:38:16 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "On behalf of" mail header
In-Reply-To: <fde304e80703090754wb5abe86i1f1712755359e87b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fde304e80703090754wb5abe86i1f1712755359e87b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fde304e80703090938i262c2410u62ab2f54c441ce33@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

A simple problem I'm sure but I cannot find the setting :(

I'd like subscriber/poster email addresses to be reported as they are on
this list:

from: name <email> to mailman-user

instead of what I presently have:

from: sb7-test-bounces at discontexter.com
[mailto:sb7-test-bounces at discontexter.com]
On Behalf Of <subscriber name>

I've trawled the admin settings but am not seeing how to do this.

Can anyone help, please?

-- 
Regards, Mike

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Fri Mar  9 18:49:49 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 10:49:49 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c216953ca503@[192.168.168.196]>
Message-ID: <200703091749.l29HnnRe009213@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Brad Knowles has said:
> 
> At 9:19 PM -0700 3/8/07, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:
> 
> >  Tell me that isn't true, Mark.  From this mail list administrator's
> >  perspective, "I can't find/use my password" ranks just below the AOL
> >  flaming demands that we unsubscribe them NOW!
> 
> Who needs periodic reminders, when there will be a reset mechanism 
> that the user can make use of at any time of their choosing?
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing the reason why you would ever want to 
> continue using the reminder mechanism, when you can just go to a 
> page, enter in your e-mail address, and have the system generate a 
> new password for you and send it to you by e-mail.
> 
If three years as a Mailman mail list administrator has taught me
anything, it is "Never underestimate the inability of list members to
use the user member management resources of Mailman."  That begins
with an inability to click on the links we put on headers and footers
to get to their options page, much less clicking on the button that
mails a password refresher to them.

Then there's the group who are running something like Windows ME who
are adamant that "my time is too valuable for me to learn anything."
What are we going to do, kick them off the list with a "learn-ya
damn-ya!"  I certainly feel that way at times.  So does my partner.

These are the hard realities of the Consumer Internet.  The last thing
my partner and I **need** is a Unix-like encrypted password and having
to reset passwords as root.  

Hank

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  9 18:50:54 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:50:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "On behalf of" mail header
In-Reply-To: <fde304e80703090938i262c2410u62ab2f54c441ce33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703090950540421214f44db@msapiro>

Mike Maughan wrote:
>
>I'd like subscriber/poster email addresses to be reported as they are on
>this list:
>
>from: name <email> to mailman-user
>
>instead of what I presently have:
>
>from: sb7-test-bounces at discontexter.com
>[mailto:sb7-test-bounces at discontexter.com]
>On Behalf Of <subscriber name>
>
>I've trawled the admin settings but am not seeing how to do this.


This is not a list setting. It is how MS-Outlook and perhaps other MUAs
present mail that has a Sender: header different from From:. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

Mail from the mailman-users at python.org list will be presented similarly
by MS-Outlook.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  9 19:07:22 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 10:07:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <200703091749.l29HnnRe009213@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020070309100722020342b32941@msapiro>

vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:
>
>These are the hard realities of the Consumer Internet.  The last thing
>my partner and I **need** is a Unix-like encrypted password and having
>to reset passwords as root.  


You won't have to do the reset as root or at all, except of course for
those clueless users who insist you do everything for them and have no
need of a password anyway.

The way I envision this is the current 'Remind me' buttion on the user
options login page is replaced by a 'Reset password' button. Clicking
this results in an email along the lines of the current subscription
confirmation email except that it would say that confirmation will
result in the password being changed to ...

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Mar  9 20:25:26 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:25:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A Mailman Log Viewer script
Message-ID: <200703091926.l29JPRAt028029@unreal.eroded.org>

Here is my gift to the Mailman community.

I have created a PHP script to display Mailman logs via an HTTP 
interface. (I used PHP because it is what I know best, Python is 
still too new for me).

It was developed to aid list owners on a server running Plesk with 
very restricted access policies. Most of those list owners have not 
been given shell access and they have no other way to access the logs.

This script allows you to view any of the mailman logs and apply 
filter criteria to them such as by date, by e-mail list or by a text 
string you are looking for (such as an e-mail address or message-id, 
you can use Perl-compatible regular expression syntax). It also 
allows you to view the entries in default chronological order 
(earliest to latest) or in reverse chronological order.

The filtering is highly useful when you have very large log files or 
only care about certain entries.

To use this script, un-tar the attached file and follow the 
instructions in the README.txt file.

I highly recommend putting this in a location that requires 
authentication for access and you may also wish to use encryption (https).

The script and all associated files are distributed under the GNU 
GPL. No warranty of any kind is given or implied.

Anyway, I hope some of you will find this useful.
-------------- next part --------------

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Mar  9 20:31:00 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:31:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A Mailman Log Viewer script
In-Reply-To: <200703091926.l29JPRAt028029@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <200703091926.l29JPRAt028029@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <200703091931.l29JV0ep028130@unreal.eroded.org>

OK, so the attachment appears to have been stripped by the list. :-(

To get the tar file for the script viewer, please go here:

http://www.crimson-dragon.com/mmlog.tar.gz


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From denis at cfg.etecsa.cu  Fri Mar  9 20:50:34 2007
From: denis at cfg.etecsa.cu (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Denis_Morej=F3n_L=F3pez?=)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 14:50:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
References: <PC176020070309100722020342b32941@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000b01c76284$33af4c80$910aa8c0@cfg.tel.etecsa.cu>

Hello guys:
I have about 15 lists. Some of them become a dark hole some times, since 
users can not send to or receive from these lists. I do not see any error 
log in /var/log/mailman/error, only some pck files into 
/var/spool/mailman/shunt/.
I just tried /usr/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt  /var/spool/mailman/shunt but 
although some of the pck files are deleted, It remains the problems with the 
lists.

Some help please!





From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  9 21:46:33 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 12:46:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <000b01c76284$33af4c80$910aa8c0@cfg.tel.etecsa.cu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030912463308126417110d@msapiro>

Denis Morej?n L?pez wrote:

>I have about 15 lists. Some of them become a dark hole some times, since 
>users can not send to or receive from these lists. I do not see any error 
>log in /var/log/mailman/error, only some pck files into 
>/var/spool/mailman/shunt/.
>I just tried /usr/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt  /var/spool/mailman/shunt but 
>although some of the pck files are deleted, It remains the problems with the 
>lists.


Regarding shunted messages, there should be three entries in Mailman's
error log for each shunted message. These are an uncaught exception
entry, a traceback of the exception and the shunting entry.

If these are not in the error log, perhaps your logs rotate and they
are in an older generation or have rotated into oblivion.

Regarding your list not delivering, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From chandler.lists at chapman.edu  Fri Mar  9 23:52:54 2007
From: chandler.lists at chapman.edu (Jay Chandler)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 14:52:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
Message-ID: <45F1E546.8040500@chapman.edu>

I'm new to Mailman, so please bear with me.

There's an existing list that was set up a few weeks ago.  All was well, 
until I noticed something rather odd.

When a user was unsubscribed (through the web interface), they continued 
to receive emails.  And when additional users were subscribed, they 
still haven't received any of the list traffic.

This is on FreeBSD / Postfix.  Anyone know what I might have forgotten 
to do?  Everything else works correctly.

-- 
Jay Chandler
Network Administrator
Chapman University


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Sat Mar 10 00:01:39 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 15:01:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <45F1E546.8040500@chapman.edu>
References: <45F1E546.8040500@chapman.edu>
Message-ID: <200703092302.l29N1del029469@unreal.eroded.org>

Jay Chandler wrote:
>I'm new to Mailman, so please bear with me.
>
>There's an existing list that was set up a few weeks ago.  All was well,
>until I noticed something rather odd.
>
>When a user was unsubscribed (through the web interface), they continued
>to receive emails.  And when additional users were subscribed, they
>still haven't received any of the list traffic.
>
>This is on FreeBSD / Postfix.  Anyone know what I might have forgotten
>to do?  Everything else works correctly.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Mailman maintains a current version of its config file and a backup 
that is one generation older. It sounds to me like the current config 
is corrupt and it is falling back on the backup.

This should show up in the logs, probably the error log or maybe qrunner.

Something you can try is to run bin/dumpdb on the config.pck and 
config.pck.last files for that list to see if it throws an exception 
or reports a problem.


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Sat Mar 10 00:07:36 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 18:07:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <45F1E546.8040500@chapman.edu>
References: <45F1E546.8040500@chapman.edu>
Message-ID: <1907-SnapperMsgFB251063C2179945@[10.81.49.147]>

On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 14:52:54 -0800 "Jay Chandler" 
<chandler.lists at chapman.edu> wrote:

>This is on FreeBSD / Postfix.  Anyone know what I might have forgotten 
>to do?  Everything else works correctly.

Any chance you have two installations of mailman and the mail aliases are 
pointing to the old one?
___
Sent with SnapperMail
www.snappermail.com

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 10 00:42:32 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 15:42:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <45F1E546.8040500@chapman.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020070309154232048491c70e84@msapiro>

Jay Chandler wrote:
>
>When a user was unsubscribed (through the web interface), they continued 
>to receive emails.  And when additional users were subscribed, they 
>still haven't received any of the list traffic.


Do your subs and unsubs require approval? Any admindb requests waiting.

If sub requires confirmation, did the new subs receive the confirmation
email and respond?

Is the unsub still in Membership management...-Membership list? Are the
new subs there?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 10 00:55:02 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 15:55:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <200703092302.l29N1del029469@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007030915550207348de7e160@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:
>
>Mailman maintains a current version of its config file and a backup 
>that is one generation older. It sounds to me like the current config 
>is corrupt and it is falling back on the backup.


This is unlikely to be the case. First of all, config.pck.last is at
most one transaction behind config.pck. Then, if config.pck can't be
loaded, the list will be loaded (if possible) from config.pck.last,
but saved back to config.pck so after one fallback event, config.pck
will have the latest list state.

The only time you get a significant rollback in this situation is if
you magrated from an old config.db and left the old config.db in the
lists/listname/ directory after the config.pck was created. Then, if
both the config.pck and config.pck.last became unusable at the same
time, you'd fall back to the config.db which would really be out of
date.


>This should show up in the logs, probably the error log or maybe qrunner.


It's logged in Mailman's 'error' log.


>Something you can try is to run bin/dumpdb on the config.pck and 
>config.pck.last files for that list to see if it throws an exception 
>or reports a problem.


At this point, after one or more posts or other events, even if the
config.pck had been corrupt, it would have been overwritten with a
good file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar 10 17:35:32 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:35:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <510038.45162.qm@web39711.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <510038.45162.qm@web39711.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c2188e79f7bb@[172.16.1.2]>

At 5:15 AM -0800 3/9/07, Herman Privyhum wrote:

>  If disabling IDENT is so crucial, as both you and my
>  experience with a triflingly small list seem to argue,
>  it must be important to amend the Mailman-Exim Howto,
>  no?

Well, it's their HowTo, so I don't see that this is something that we 
should (or could) be updating ourselves.

That said, it might be a good idea to put a note in our FAQ Wizard 
warning people about the risks of IDENT.  This isn't really a Mailman 
thing per se, more of an MTA issue, but it is still something that 
people running Mailman servers might run into.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar 10 17:37:45 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:37:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0703090940270.19629@westnet.com>
References: <851976.23011.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06240500c216b65466cf@[10.0.1.201]>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0703090940270.19629@westnet.com>
Message-ID: <p06240501c2188ee410d6@[172.16.1.2]>

At 9:48 AM -0500 3/9/07, Christopher X. Candreva wrote:

>  This is a common misconception of what IDENT is/was for.  IDENT was not
>  intended to provide reliable authentication, as to who owned a connection.

I know what the purpose of IDENT is.  I wrote the original sendmail 
FAQ entry on this subject back in 1995.

The problem is that while IDENT can be useful in some cases, the 
risks and costs of IDENT on the modern Internet is so high that it's 
not worth the effort.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar 10 17:42:16 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:42:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
In-Reply-To: <200703091749.l29HnnRe009213@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200703091749.l29HnnRe009213@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <p06240502c2188fb34149@[172.16.1.2]>

At 10:49 AM -0700 3/9/07, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

>  Then there's the group who are running something like Windows ME who
>  are adamant that "my time is too valuable for me to learn anything."
>  What are we going to do, kick them off the list with a "learn-ya
>  damn-ya!"  I certainly feel that way at times.  So does my partner.

We get that kind of crap to python.org, too.  I think we get a lot 
more of it than most anyone else, because many stupid people seem to 
see that Mailman is a project supported by python.org, and they 
"naturally" assume that this is the site where all mailing lists in 
the Universe are hosted, and that it's our only purpose in life to 
kowtow to their every whim.

Believe me, I'll put a lot of work into making sure that I *don't* 
comply with their demands, and I can be pretty harsh in my responses.

>  These are the hard realities of the Consumer Internet.  The last thing
>  my partner and I **need** is a Unix-like encrypted password and having
>  to reset passwords as root.

That's not necessary.  Think of all the "enter your e-mail address, 
have auto-generated new password sent to you" systems on the 
Internet.  Well, that's what we're talking about here.  Trust me, 
it's far, far better than the old reminders.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From chris at westnet.com  Sun Mar 11 01:57:08 2007
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 19:57:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c2188ee410d6@[172.16.1.2]>
References: <851976.23011.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06240500c216b65466cf@[10.0.1.201]>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0703090940270.19629@westnet.com>
	<p06240501c2188ee410d6@[172.16.1.2]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0703101955470.23403@westnet.com>

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007, Brad Knowles wrote:

> >  This is a common misconception of what IDENT is/was for.  IDENT was not

> I know what the purpose of IDENT is.  I wrote the original sendmail FAQ entry
> on this subject back in 1995.

Sorry, automatic response of the fingers, usually reserved for IRC operators 
who somehow think accepting connections only from hosts running IDENT does 
something for them.

In fact it's so automatic I have the funny feeling I'm commited this same 
faux pass with you before.

-Chris

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 948-3162
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

From srb at umich.edu  Sun Mar 11 18:25:36 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:25:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which parts of mailman are platform-dependent?
Message-ID: <FBC1A0EC8728A9DE6BD40DC9@srb.local>

Here's why I want to know:

We're getting ready to jack up our environment and drag out two (tired, 
weak) machines running Solaris on SPARC, replacing them with two (strong, 
healthy) Red Hat boxes, runing on Intel hardware.

Unfortunately, we're not going to swap them at the same time.

Currently, one of those machines is our mail server, and the other is the 
web server.  The web server is what provides Mailman access for 
administrative tasks and for archive access.  That's the machine that will 
be replaced first.

If all goes smoothly (yeah, right :-), we will, at the same time that we 
replace the web server, move mail server duties to that machine as well.

If things don't go well, then mail may end up continuing to run on the 
Solaris box.

>From what I've been able to figure out, there are two parts of mailman that 
are platform-dependent:

    $MAILMAN_HOME/mail/mailman (the wrapper that mail is piped to)
    $MAILMAN_HOME/cgi-bin/* (which get used by the web server)

Everything in $MAILMAN_HOME/bin is python and so should be 
platform-independent, right?

If I'm correct, then if things go badly and we end up in the situation 
where our mail server is running Solaris on SPARC and our web server is 
running Linux on Intel, then assuming that the two machines share 
$MAILMAN_HOME, I just have to ensure that the wrapper is a SPARC 
executable, while the cgi-bin files are Intel executables.

Or have I missed something?  Anything else that will care?

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Mar 11 17:34:02 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 11:34:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which parts of mailman are platform-dependent?
In-Reply-To: <FBC1A0EC8728A9DE6BD40DC9@srb.local>
References: <FBC1A0EC8728A9DE6BD40DC9@srb.local>
Message-ID: <p06240502c219deb52490@[172.16.1.2]>

At 12:25 PM -0500 3/11/07, Steve Burling wrote:

>  From what I've been able to figure out, there are two parts of mailman that
>  are platform-dependent:
>
>      $MAILMAN_HOME/mail/mailman (the wrapper that mail is piped to)
>      $MAILMAN_HOME/cgi-bin/* (which get used by the web server)

That's not really platform-dependant.  Mailman itself is pure Python, 
so should run anywhere that Python does.  These kinds of things are 
installation-dependant, and if you were to install Mailman in a 
different location on exactly the same platform, then these things 
would be different -- or at least in different places.

The "standard" locations for things in the typical Mailman world 
(i.e., as downloaded directly from our sources) are usually somewhat 
different from where things get put if you use a version that has 
been pre-packaged by someone else.


However, since these locations involve things in the code that can be 
buried pretty deep, if you want to move a Mailman installation from 
one platform to another, I would recommend that you completely 
re-install Mailman from the appropriate sources on the new box, then 
copy over just the configuration files and archives for the lists.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From mike.maughan at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 17:51:03 2007
From: mike.maughan at gmail.com (Mike Maughan)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:51:03 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing illegal character user names
Message-ID: <fde304e80703110951k6a72c307u9d82a348826f403e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Through some finger incontinence on my part (trying to do list admin
waaaayyyy too late at night when I should have been in bed asleep) I have
managed to add an illegally-named user whom I now cannot unsubscribe ...

It is also possible I've discovered a bug, in which case the circumstances
were a mass subscribe exercise where (in this case) I forgot to add a space
between the username and the email address, so the input line looked like
this "User"<username at domain.com> and the list added them as this "User"
username at domain.com.

I can see the user name in the list admin console but it will not allow me
to unsubscribe or "no mail" the user.

Can anyone advise, help at all, please?

-- 
Regards, Mike

From srb at umich.edu  Sun Mar 11 19:53:44 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 13:53:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which parts of mailman are platform-dependent?
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c219deb52490@[172.16.1.2]>
References: <FBC1A0EC8728A9DE6BD40DC9@srb.local>
	<p06240502c219deb52490@[172.16.1.2]>
Message-ID: <5CAA6C33EB5DD2509568324A@srb.local>

--On March 11, 2007 11:34:02 AM -0500 Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> 
wrote:

> That's not really platform-dependant.  Mailman itself is pure Python,
> so should run anywhere that Python does.  These kinds of things are
> installation-dependant, and if you were to install Mailman in a
> different location on exactly the same platform, then these things
> would be different -- or at least in different places.

Unless I'm missing something (which is entirely possible), it's not true 
that Mailman is pure Python.  There is a bunch of C code in 
$MAILMAN_SRC/src, which gets compiled into platform-specific executable 
files.  These end up as $MAILMAN_HOME/mail/mailman, and 
$MAILMAN_HOME/cgi-bin/<whatever>.  And it's these that I'm concerned with. 
$MAILMAN_HOME/mail/mailman gets executed by the MTA, as a result of the 
pipes in the alias file.  So they had better be compiled for the same 
architecture as the mailer.  $MAILMAN_HOME/cgi-bin/* get executed by the 
web server, and so had better be compiled for the same architecture as the 
web server.  If, as might happen for us, those architectures are different, 
then some extra precautions have to be taken.

> The "standard" locations for things in the typical Mailman world
> (i.e., as downloaded directly from our sources) are usually somewhat
> different from where things get put if you use a version that has
> been pre-packaged by someone else.

And we, for historical (hysterical?) reasons, have yet another location. 
We also want to run later versions of mailman than Red Hat provides (and 
certainly a later versions than we have been running, so will definitely 
build from source.

> However, since these locations involve things in the code that can be
> buried pretty deep, if you want to move a Mailman installation from
> one platform to another, I would recommend that you completely
> re-install Mailman from the appropriate sources on the new box, then
> copy over just the configuration files and archives for the lists.

We will certainly do this; my concern is that if we end up in the 
unenviable position of having to leave our mail server on the old hardware 
for awhile, whether there is anything *other* than 
$MAILMAN_HOME/mail/mailman that I have to make sure gets built for that 
platform.

I apologize in advance if I'm being particular stupid about this, but the 
day is fast approaching when we cut over to the new web server hardware, 
and I'd rather think about this ahead of time than sit there that day, 
saying, "Well, sh*t, that's not good..."


-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar 11 19:31:50 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 11:31:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which parts of mailman are platform-dependent?
In-Reply-To: <5CAA6C33EB5DD2509568324A@srb.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703111131500109aacce6df@msapiro>

Steve Burling wrote:
>
>Unless I'm missing something (which is entirely possible), it's not true 
>that Mailman is pure Python.  There is a bunch of C code in 
>$MAILMAN_SRC/src, which gets compiled into platform-specific executable 
>files.  These end up as $MAILMAN_HOME/mail/mailman, and 
>$MAILMAN_HOME/cgi-bin/<whatever>.  And it's these that I'm concerned with. 


You are correct. Since these modules get compiled and bound with local
C runtime that is presumably platform specific, the bound programs are
platform specific.


>$MAILMAN_HOME/mail/mailman gets executed by the MTA, as a result of the 
>pipes in the alias file.  So they had better be compiled for the same 
>architecture as the mailer.  $MAILMAN_HOME/cgi-bin/* get executed by the 
>web server, and so had better be compiled for the same architecture as the 
>web server.  If, as might happen for us, those architectures are different, 
>then some extra precautions have to be taken.


Correct again.


<snip>

>my concern is that if we end up in the 
>unenviable position of having to leave our mail server on the old hardware 
>for awhile, whether there is anything *other* than 
>$MAILMAN_HOME/mail/mailman that I have to make sure gets built for that 
>platform.


configure has a --exec-prefix option to set the path for the
architecture dependent stuff. This affects the paths for the mail/,
cgi-bin/, and bin/ directories. It also affects the Defaults.py
setting of EXEC_PREFIX which in turn sets WRAPPER_DIR which is only
used by bin/check_perms and by Mailman/MTA/Utils.py for making aliases.

I don't think there actually is any architecture dependant stuff in
bin/, so I think you are correct to be concerned only with the
wrappers in mail/ and cgi-bin/.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar 11 18:43:19 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 10:43:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing illegal character user names
In-Reply-To: <fde304e80703110951k6a72c307u9d82a348826f403e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703111043190187debe2d2e@msapiro>

Mike Maughan wrote:
>
>It is also possible I've discovered a bug, in which case the circumstances
>were a mass subscribe exercise where (in this case) I forgot to add a space
>between the username and the email address, so the input line looked like
>this "User"<username at domain.com> and the list added them as this "User"
>username at domain.com.


I can't quite duplicate this. If I try to add "User"<user at example.com>,
I add user at example.com with real name User as expected even though
there is no separating space.

However, I can add "User"user at example.com> or "User"user at example.com,
and the address "User"user at example.com gets added with no real name.
This too is what I would expect (I don't know if we should disallow "
in an email address).

The problem, the underlying cause of which I haven't yet identified (it
probably messes up the post data from the web page), is it appears
that you can't remove a user with who has a " in the email address by
checking the unsub box on the membership list. However, you can remove
this member by entering the address in Mass Removal.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Sun Mar 11 20:11:12 2007
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:11:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow delivery
In-Reply-To: <652475.11968.qm@web39704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C219A260.121DC%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 3/8/07 10:44 PM, "Herman Privyhum" <privyhum at yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> --- Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> 
>> I'd be willing to bet you're waiting on DNS timeouts
>> at the remote end for one or more of your users
>> -- their MTA is slowing you down,  maybe as a
>> result of trying to do a reverse DNS lookup on
>> your IP address.
> 
> Thanks to all for the thorough replies.  It appears
> that the solution actually lies in disabling ident.
> 
> In Exim, this is achieved by setting the timeout to 0.
> 
>     #rfc1413_query_timeout = 30s
>     rfc1413_query_timeout = 0s
> 
> I may go back and turn it on again with a smaller
> timeout (suggestions as to how long is reasonable?).

Just a note:  The default value of rfc1413_query_timeout was reduced in
recent versions of Exim to, I think, 5s.

That was in preference to changing it to 0s, as a change to 0s would impact
sites which don't change that default, something Philip doesn't like to do
except when the major version changes.

Philip will be retired (late September) before Exim 5 is out--the Exim
community is well along in setting up a structure to deal with that.  His
retirement is, IMHO, much scarier with respect to the PCRE library than is
is with respect to Exim.

  --John



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar 11 20:41:29 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:41:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing illegal character user names
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703111043190187debe2d2e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703111241290468d751f031@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>However, I can add "User"user at example.com> or "User"user at example.com,
>and the address "User"user at example.com gets added with no real name.
>This too is what I would expect (I don't know if we should disallow "
>in an email address).


Quoted local parts are allowed in email addresses, so the above are
probably not valid, but "Useruser"@example.com or
"User\"user"@example.com are valid.


>The problem, the underlying cause of which I haven't yet identified (it
>probably messes up the post data from the web page), is it appears
>that you can't remove a user with who has a " in the email address by
>checking the unsub box on the membership list. However, you can remove
>this member by entering the address in Mass Removal.


It's as I suspected. The various input tags on the Membership list look
like

<INPUT name="user at example.com_unsub" type="CHECKBOX" value="off" >

where user at example.com is the email address. Clearly, if the address
contains double quotes, the field name gets truncated or garbled, so
it isn't possible to change anything for this member from the
Membership list page..

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Sun Mar 11 21:43:41 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 13:43:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing illegal character user names
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703111241290468d751f031@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200703111043190187debe2d2e@msapiro>
	<PC1760200703111241290468d751f031@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070311204341.DKJW748.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>

Mark Sapiro sent the message below at 12:41 PM 3/11/2007:

>It's as I suspected. The various input tags on the Membership list look
>like
>
><INPUT name="user at example.com_unsub" type="CHECKBOX" value="off" >
>
>where user at example.com is the email address. Clearly, if the address
>contains double quotes, the field name gets truncated or garbled, so
>it isn't possible to change anything for this member from the
>Membership list page..
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Which is valid, and proper HTML usage, all parameters in any HTML tag 
should be enclosed in quotes. It is mandatory in XHTML.

So how do you deal with this?

Quite simply by escaping any non alpha-numeric character with either 
its symbolic or numeric code. It is always good practice in dealing 
with any sort of CGI or user generated data to ensure that just such 
situations or worse will not occur.

If there is a Python module out there for escaping HTML strings, it 
seems like it would be a fairly simple task to apply the escape 
function while generating the output to the page.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Mar 11 23:39:36 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 17:39:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which parts of mailman are platform-dependent?
In-Reply-To: <5CAA6C33EB5DD2509568324A@srb.local>
References: <FBC1A0EC8728A9DE6BD40DC9@srb.local>
	<p06240502c219deb52490@[172.16.1.2]>
	<5CAA6C33EB5DD2509568324A@srb.local>
Message-ID: <p06240500c21a358060ad@[10.0.1.201]>

At 1:53 PM -0500 3/11/07, Steve Burling wrote:

>  I apologize in advance if I'm being particular stupid about this, but the
>  day is fast approaching when we cut over to the new web server hardware,
>  and I'd rather think about this ahead of time than sit there that day,
>  saying, "Well, sh*t, that's not good..."

I think Mark probably has a better handle on what you're talking 
about, so ignore everything I've said and pay attention to him 
instead.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Mon Mar 12 01:19:35 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:19:35 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and solaris stuff
In-Reply-To: <65F4B302-89C5-4A9D-BA34-F6701DFA7615@python.org>
Message-ID: <200703120019.l2C0JZBj009938@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Barry Warsaw has said:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Feb 27, 2007, at 10:44 PM, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:
> 
> > Since you guys aren't working with either Sendmail or Solaris, I think
> > it would be best for me to walk through and record the entire process,
> > and give that to you as a basis for inclusion where and however you
> > want to use it.
> 
> Sounds great Hank, thanks.
> - -Barry
> 
I'm about to post a Sendmail/Mailman step-by-step.   

I've reduced the process to four steps, but have not repeated the 
smrsh link step that is already in the installation manual.  

This is for a simple installation, and I have not addressed things
like multiple mail queues or use of a remote mail host.   The method
in my madness is to try to address the needs of the new-to-sendmail
administrator in a "get a simple installation working first" mode.

After thinking about it, I decided not to attempt to discuss such
things as configuring sendmail to operate with a remote mail host, 
multiple mail queues, or name service.  I think that all of those are
both very site dependent, and adequately covered in the referenced
Sendmail documentation.  It's a dirt simple approach to doing a new
O/S install with Sendmail, Python and Mailman install, and configuring
things to work.   

I did include the main.mc masquerading lines needed to do a 2-domain 
virtual domain setup, which may seem redundant, as these are Sendmail
issues.  However, the sendmail.org FAQ for doing virtual domains is
broken (or was---last week was last time I checked) and the "bat book"
is deceptively incomplete in its discussion.  

In addition to addressing Mailman/Sendmail specifics only, I generally
take the Ockham's Razor approach to getting something new working
("the simplest is the best"), along with the corollary to that.  "If 
it ain't broke, don't fix it."  The result may seem absurdly short and
intellectually dissatisfying to some, but I don't see any point in
making a big project out of what's really a simple job.  

Hank

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Mon Mar 12 01:22:10 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:22:10 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating Sendmail and Solaris (installation
	guide)
In-Reply-To: <65F4B302-89C5-4A9D-BA34-F6701DFA7615@python.org>
Message-ID: <200703120022.l2C0MAiE009960@julie.lostwells.net>

Mailman, in its default configuration, readily integrates with a
properly-configured sendmail installation.  

The discussion below gives specific file locations for a Solaris 9
installation.  Solaris 10 locates the sendmail control file sources in
/etc/mail/cf rather than /usr/lib/mail/cf.  Locations of the sendmail
executable and ancillary files are compile-time options for sendmail,
so you will need to determine file locations for your specific
installation.  In our discussion, we also assume that the sendmail MTA
that communicates with the Internet backbone and Mailman are installed
on the same node (same hardware box).  

Steps required for a Mailman-sendmail integration:

1. Enable smrsh. Creating the directory links was covered in the
previous installation step.  In addition, assure that the link to the
smrsh program is declared in main.mc. (/usr/lib/mail/cf/main.mc on a
Solaris 9 system).

FEATURE(smrsh, /usr/lib/smrsh)dnl

2. For each list that you create, you need to add a set of alias
pipes to the aliases file (typically /etc/mail/aliases) and run the
newaliases program (/usr/sbin/newaliases).  If you are following this
guide for an initial Mailman installation, you will not be creating 
lists until later steps.  Mailman will give you the alias information
when you create a list.  Additionaly, the $(prefix)/bin/genaliases
script will generate all of aliases needed for all lists that have
been created to stdout.  These are in the correct format for the
sendmail aliases file.  

3. Set up sendmail masquerading to correspond to the Mailman
configuration.  For example, if your installation is on a machine
known as myhost.mydomain.net and you create a list to receive mail
at mylist at mydomain.net, you will need to masquerade as mydomain.net.
You will also need to masquerade the sending envelope as well.  
In its simplest form, the statements in main.mc for doing this are:

MASQUERADE_AS(`mydomain.net')dnl
FEATURE(`masquerade_envelope')dnl

4. Add the masquerade address to /etc/mail/local-host-names. For the
example above, the local-host-names file must have:

mydomain.net

The above four items cover the basics needed to integrate Mailman with
a simple sendmail installation.  Except for the need to enable smrsh
and to install piping aliases, virtually everything surrounding a
Mailman installation supported by the sendmail MTA is specific to
sendmail, and some of the above is abstracted from sendmail
documentation.  

This documentation includes:

The README included in the sendmail source distribution from
http://www.sendmail.org/

Costales, Bryan: "Sendmail," 3rd edition, O'Reilly, 2002
This is commonly referred to as the "bat book."

Costales, Bryan: "Sendmail 8.13 Companion," O'Reilly, 2006

Additional resources are the web site and sendmail faq at:
http://www.sendmail.org/
Usenet newsgroup comp.mail.sendmail

For convenience, we include comments here on sendmail configuration
considerations that often come up on the mailman-users list.  
References are to Costales, "Sendmail".  

A general guiding principle when working with sendmail is to "keep it
simple."  In particular, configure and test your sendmail installation
thoroughly, with user accounts running simple MUA's such as elm or
mutt, before expecting sendmail to work with Mailman.  Virtually all
of the problems users encounter with sendmail are visible to simple
MUA testing.  

In particular, do ALL of your sendmail configuration through the M4
macro files, rather than attempting to read and edit the .cf files.  
Since your M4 files will quickly become site-specific, we recommend
copying the the full M4 setup to a local directory, and managing the
configuration from there.  This will prevent a sendmail upgrade from 
overlaying your site's configuration, something that has historically
been a problem to Solaris users, where a sendmail upgrade is included
in a patch cluster.  

Management of sendmail .cf files through the M4 files is discussed in
"Sendmail" chapter 4.  

Virtual Domain handling:  This refers to the case where a server 
at mydomain.net handles mail for otherdomain.com.  The authoritative
DNS for otherdomain.com is set with A and/or MX records pointing to
the same IP as that for mydomain.net.

Handling this in sendmail is straightforward.  Masquerading is covered
in detail in "Sendmail" section 4.4, pp160ff.  However, the discussion
does not give a complete main.mc file masquerading configuration, which 
we include here for convenience:

MASQUERADE_AS(`mydomain.net')dnl
FEATURE(`masquerade_entire_domain')dnl
FEATURE(`limited_masquerade')dnl
LOCAL_DOMAIN(`mydomain.net otherdomain.com')dnl
MASQUERADE_DOMAIN(`mydomain.net')dnl

In short, you include all of the domain names you are handling, but
only specify masquerading for domains where you need a nodename
removed from the canonical name.  

You also need to add the additional domain(s) to
/etc/mail/local-host-names; each domain name on a separate line.

Note that "local-host-names" is actually optional feature for adding
names to the class $=w in the .cf file convention.  It is typically
defined (by default) in cfhead.m4 (on Solaris 9,
/usr/lib/mail/m4/cfhead.m4)
define(`confCW_FILE', `MAIL_SETTINGS_DIR`'local-host-names')

For test, a simple local MUA should be able to send and receive mail
from any of the domain names at your host.  Make sure that the
"host name this list prefers for email" on the main options page is
correct for the masquerading you have set up.  

Note that the list outgoing mail envelope is added by sendmail, and
is not a Mailman function.

Relaying:  Once upon a time, sendmail allowed significant relaying by
default.  Recent and current versions default to "no relaying at all."
"Sendmail," section 4.5, pp164ff, discuss sendmail relaying in detail.

Solaris users should be aware that the Sun Solaris sendmail
distributions have relaying enabled by default.  For almost all
installations, this should be corrected by changing the main.mc
DOMAIN statement to:
DOMAIN(`solaris-antispam')dnl

On non-Solaris systems, the usual DOMAIN statement is:
DOMAIN(`generic')dnl


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 12 01:28:54 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 17:28:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing illegal character user names
In-Reply-To: <20070311204341.DKJW748.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703111728540562b0e872a8@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:

>Mark Sapiro sent the message below at 12:41 PM 3/11/2007:
>
>>It's as I suspected. The various input tags on the Membership list look
>>like
>>
>><INPUT name="user at example.com_unsub" type="CHECKBOX" value="off" >
>>
>>where user at example.com is the email address. Clearly, if the address
>>contains double quotes, the field name gets truncated or garbled, so
>>it isn't possible to change anything for this member from the
>>Membership list page..
>---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
>Which is valid, and proper HTML usage, all parameters in any HTML tag 
>should be enclosed in quotes. It is mandatory in XHTML.


I never meant to imply that this was not proper usage. I only quoted
the input tag in order to show that the email address was part of a
field name.


>So how do you deal with this?
>
>Quite simply by escaping any non alpha-numeric character with either 
>its symbolic or numeric code. It is always good practice in dealing 
>with any sort of CGI or user generated data to ensure that just such 
>situations or worse will not occur.
>
>If there is a Python module out there for escaping HTML strings, it 
>seems like it would be a fairly simple task to apply the escape 
>function while generating the output to the page.


That's half (or less) of the solution. The other part is recognizing
the input field names with escaped characters. The change to the
admin.py script is not that difficult. In case anyone is interested, I
have attached a patch.

I am reluctant to commit the patch for a few reasons. It breaks a
couple of screen scraping mailman-subscribers.py scripts which can be
fixed, but what else does it break?

Also, I'm not sure that there's really a problem needing to be fixed.
RFC 2821 allows quoted local-parts in email addresses, but are there
any in practice? If someone inadvertently subscribes an address with
quotes as the OP did, the bad address can be easily removed via
mass-remove even though not by the unsub checkbox.

I understand the point about good practice, and we do try to validate
user input in Mailman to avoid possible XSS attacks via the web
interface. What we're dealing with here are syntactically validated
email addresses so the really nasty stuff has already been caught.

Still, I'm interested in feedback from anyone who has an opinion about
this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
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Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20070311/3f0cd900/attachment.txt 

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Mar 12 07:03:51 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:03:51 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing illegal character user names
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703111728540562b0e872a8@msapiro>
References: <20070311204341.DKJW748.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
	<PC1760200703111728540562b0e872a8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <873b4bc81k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > I understand the point about good practice, and we do try to validate
 > user input in Mailman to avoid possible XSS attacks via the web
 > interface. What we're dealing with here are syntactically validated
 > email addresses so the really nasty stuff has already been caught.
 > 
 > Still, I'm interested in feedback from anyone who has an opinion about
 > this.

How about a separate query box for getting at these unusual (if not
bogus) addresses?  Then the screenscrapers should continue to work,
unless their parsers will break if the output is not identical up to
the </html>.

For example, add to the member search query a "find invalid addresses"
button.  This should not cause any problems unless such addresses are
present, and you don't need to worry about 100% RFC correctness (ie,
you can be stricter than RFC 2822 demands) since any actual actions
will be manual.


From tron478 at googlemail.com  Mon Mar 12 12:43:16 2007
From: tron478 at googlemail.com (TRON478)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 12:43:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hi, how to re-configure mailman to mail-gid ...
Message-ID: <865f632b0703120443o38a25c4g8a12d76f84a7bf3a@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

how can i re-configure mailman with the option --with-mail-gid=mailman ????
or changing postifx to execute the mailman script with user mailman. thank
you

ERROR-MESSAGE:

<test at lists.interactive-ip.eu>: Command died with status 2:
   "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test". Command output: Group
mismatch
   error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group
   "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group
   "nobody".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group
   "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
   `--with-mail-gid=nobody'.

Final-Recipient: rfc822; test at lists.interactive-ip.eu
Original-Recipient: rfc822;test at lists.interactive-ip.eu
Action: failed
Status: 5.3.0
Diagnostic-Code: x-unix; Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
   wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail
   server executed the mail script as group "nobody".  Try tweaking the mail
   server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure,
   providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nobody'.


yavuz

From her at adm.ku.dk  Mon Mar 12 14:13:26 2007
From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:13:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.5 - Local customizations is being
	ignored
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703111728540562b0e872a8@msapiro>
References: <20070311204341.DKJW748.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
	<PC1760200703111728540562b0e872a8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BDBDF@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>

I'm using Mailman 2.1.5.

I've read*) that to avoid customize the original templates, it is
adviced to 

"Create a directory lists/<yourlist>/en (assuming English :) and copy
  templates/subscribeack.txt to this directory.  Then edit this file 
  for your specific wording.  Mailman will use this specialized 
  template for the English welcome messages."

I assume this does not require a OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = 1 

However, even I copy the file templates/da/verify.txt to
lists/<mylist>/da/ (and check the directory and file permissions
according to the originals) and restart the mailman server using
mailmanctl restart, Mailman still uses the original template
templates/da/verify.txt

Do I have to change something in the Mailman configuration to use
customized templates?

*)
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=customize&querytype=simpl
e&casefold=yes&req=search

Henrik

From chandler.lists at chapman.edu  Mon Mar 12 17:20:04 2007
From: chandler.lists at chapman.edu (chandler.lists at chapman.edu)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:20:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070309154232048491c70e84@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070309154232048491c70e84@msapiro>
Message-ID: <50191.75.84.107.29.1173716404.squirrel@webmail.chapman.edu>

> Jay Chandler wrote:
>>
>>When a user was unsubscribed (through the web interface), they continued
>>to receive emails.  And when additional users were subscribed, they
>>still haven't received any of the list traffic.
>
>
> Do your subs and unsubs require approval? Any admindb requests waiting.

Nope to both.
> If sub requires confirmation, did the new subs receive the confirmation
> email and respond?
>
> Is the unsub still in Membership management...-Membership list? Are the
> new subs there?

Yes.  It LOOKS correct within the web interface...


From chandler.lists at chapman.edu  Mon Mar 12 17:20:52 2007
From: chandler.lists at chapman.edu (chandler.lists at chapman.edu)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:20:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <1907-SnapperMsgFB251063C2179945@[10.81.49.147]>
References: <45F1E546.8040500@chapman.edu>
	<1907-SnapperMsgFB251063C2179945@[10.81.49.147]>
Message-ID: <64867.75.84.107.29.1173716452.squirrel@webmail.chapman.edu>

> On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 14:52:54 -0800 "Jay Chandler"
> <chandler.lists at chapman.edu> wrote:
>
>>This is on FreeBSD / Postfix.  Anyone know what I might have forgotten
>>to do?  Everything else works correctly.
>
> Any chance you have two installations of mailman and the mail aliases are
> pointing to the old one?

Nope-- newish box that I've built myself.  This is the only Mailman install.


From chandler.lists at chapman.edu  Mon Mar 12 17:22:03 2007
From: chandler.lists at chapman.edu (chandler.lists at chapman.edu)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:22:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <200703092302.l29N1del029469@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <45F1E546.8040500@chapman.edu>
	<200703092302.l29N1del029469@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <61117.75.84.107.29.1173716523.squirrel@webmail.chapman.edu>

> > Mailman maintains a current version of its config file and a backup
> that is one generation older. It sounds to me like the current config
> is corrupt and it is falling back on the backup.
>
> This should show up in the logs, probably the error log or maybe qrunner.
>
> Something you can try is to run bin/dumpdb on the config.pck and
> config.pck.last files for that list to see if it throws an exception
> or reports a problem.
>
>
> Dragon

The problem is there are a pair of lists that are exhibiting this behavior
simultaneously.  I will try your suggestion, however, and report back.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 12 18:15:55 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:15:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hi, how to re-configure mailman to mail-gid ...
In-Reply-To: <865f632b0703120443o38a25c4g8a12d76f84a7bf3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007031210155503757201ec2e@msapiro>

TRON478 wrote:
>
>how can i re-configure mailman with the option --with-mail-gid=mailman ????


If you installed Mailman from source, this is an option to the
configure command. If you are running a package, this is a question
for your packager.


>or changing postifx to execute the mailman script with user mailman. thank
>you


This is more likely the answer for you. In most cases with Postfix,
Mailman-Postfix integration is used. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>. In this case, the
Mailman aliases for postfix are in Mailman's data/aliases and
data/aliases.db files. Postfix invokes the wrapper as user:group of
the files in which it finds the alias, so make these files group
mailman.

>ERROR-MESSAGE:
>
><test at lists.interactive-ip.eu>: Command died with status 2:
>   "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test". Command output: Group
>mismatch
>   error.
<snip>

Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 12 18:31:40 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:31:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.5 - Local customizations is
	beingignored
In-Reply-To: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BDBDF@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <PC17602007031210314003129365d140@msapiro>

Henrik Rasmussen wrote:
>
>I've read*) that to avoid customize the original templates, it is
>adviced to 
>
>"Create a directory lists/<yourlist>/en (assuming English :) and copy
>  templates/subscribeack.txt to this directory.  Then edit this file 
>  for your specific wording.  Mailman will use this specialized 
>  template for the English welcome messages."


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>
(which you might have found if you'd searched the FAQ for 'template'
instead of 'customize').


>I assume this does not require a OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = 1 


Correct.


>However, even I copy the file templates/da/verify.txt to
>lists/<mylist>/da/ (and check the directory and file permissions
>according to the originals) and restart the mailman server using
>mailmanctl restart, Mailman still uses the original template
>templates/da/verify.txt
>
>Do I have to change something in the Mailman configuration to use
>customized templates?

No. The only requirement is that the template be in one of the places
discussed in the above referenced FAQ, and that it be readable by the
mailman group.

Is the lists/<mylist>/ directory the existing directory that contains
the list's config.pck file?

Is the lists/<mylist>/da/verify.txt file you created readable by the
mailman group (i.e. group mailman and group readable or world
readable)?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 12 18:45:34 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:45:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <50191.75.84.107.29.1173716404.squirrel@webmail.chapman.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007031210453403128a49f85a@msapiro>

Jay Chandler quoted me and replied:
>>
>> Is the unsub still in Membership management...-Membership list? Are the
>> new subs there?
>
>Yes.  It LOOKS correct within the web interface...


So if I understand correctly, you have new subscribers on the admin
Membership list pages with delivery enabled and not digest, and they
aren't receiving list mail but other members are. Is this correct?

Are they bouncing? (look in mailman's bounce log and/or follow the link
to their options page).

Also, you have a former list member who does not appear on the admin
Membership list pages who is still receiving mail from the list. Is
this correct?

Is it possible this person is getting mail forwarded from another
address which is on the list?

Examine the complete headers of the mail received by this person to try
to determine how it got to her/him.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jerry at sandiego.edu  Mon Mar 12 18:59:32 2007
From: jerry at sandiego.edu (Jerold Stratton)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:59:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which parts of mailman are platform-dependent?
In-Reply-To: <FBC1A0EC8728A9DE6BD40DC9@srb.local>
References: <FBC1A0EC8728A9DE6BD40DC9@srb.local>
Message-ID: <1D643ECB-8314-42C1-97CF-EDE30B09C369@sandiego.edu>

On Mar 11, 2007, at 10:25 AM, Steve Burling wrote:
> Or have I missed something?  Anything else that will care?

We used to run the mail server portion on an old Solaris box, and the  
web portion on a Mac OS X Server box. As I recall, Mailman has a  
means of compiling itself for multiple platforms simultaneously, with  
each platform-dependent part going into a special directory for that  
platform.

However, it's been a while since we had that setup, and I can't  
recall how that worked.

Jerry
jerry at sandiego.edu
http://home.sandiego.edu/~jerry/
Maher 190/x8773
--
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing  
that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot  
possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to  
get at and repair."--Douglas Adams (Mostly Harmless)



From tron478 at googlemail.com  Mon Mar 12 19:24:32 2007
From: tron478 at googlemail.com (TRON478)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:24:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hi, how to re-configure mailman to mail-gid ...
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007031210155503757201ec2e@msapiro>
References: <865f632b0703120443o38a25c4g8a12d76f84a7bf3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007031210155503757201ec2e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <865f632b0703121124o73d27e72g769b8c50b84d9c5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

thank you. I have solved it:

* First i deleted the mailman dir at /usr/local/mailman with rm -R /usr/...
* Then i create it again as described in the mailman manual
* after this i configured the mailman source with the
"--with-mail-gid=nobody" (is this not an security hole? Why NOBODY?)
* then i installed it again with make install
* and works ...

:)

but why nobody??

thanks
yavuz

On 3/12/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> TRON478 wrote:
> >
> >how can i re-configure mailman with the option --with-mail-gid=mailman
> ????
>
>
> If you installed Mailman from source, this is an option to the
> configure command. If you are running a package, this is a question
> for your packager.
>
>
> >or changing postifx to execute the mailman script with user mailman.
> thank
> >you
>
>
> This is more likely the answer for you. In most cases with Postfix,
> Mailman-Postfix integration is used. See
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>. In this case, the
> Mailman aliases for postfix are in Mailman's data/aliases and
> data/aliases.db files. Postfix invokes the wrapper as user:group of
> the files in which it finds the alias, so make these files group
> mailman.
>
> >ERROR-MESSAGE:
> >
> ><test at lists.interactive-ip.eu>: Command died with status 2:
> >   "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test". Command output: Group
> >mismatch
> >   error.
> <snip>
>
> Also see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From tron478 at googlemail.com  Mon Mar 12 19:27:22 2007
From: tron478 at googlemail.com (TRON478)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:27:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What about mailman backup
Message-ID: <865f632b0703121127g576ad1c7wea826b4ac5566fb5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

i have now my list up and running, but now im asking myself how to backup
the already subscribed users and lists? so if my machine one day chrashes, i
want to set it up again an dont want to subcribers subribe again to my
lists. is there a documentation for this point? or how are you doing?

thanks
yavuz

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 12 19:36:42 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 11:36:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hi, how to re-configure mailman to mail-gid ...
In-Reply-To: <865f632b0703121124o73d27e72g769b8c50b84d9c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703121136420406773c02a0@msapiro>

TRON478 wrote:
>
>but why nobody??


Because 'nobody' is the group as which Postfix executes the wrapper, so
you have now compiled the wrapper to expect to be invoked by the
'nobody' group.

Again, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mike.maughan at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 19:45:38 2007
From: mike.maughan at gmail.com (Mike Maughan)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:45:38 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing illegal character or duplicated user names
	- update
Message-ID: <fde304e80703121145m451ea805i679f8c8e89f1b28e@mail.gmail.com>

To update you on this issue, I have a user whom I managed to subscribe
incorrectly to the list and now cannot remove her.  There appear to be two
hidden subscriptions, neither of which appear in the subscriptions page.

If I leave her normal sub active, she gets three copies of list messages; if
I suspend mail on her (visible) account, she gets 2 copies.

I have diff-ed the full messages she receives in the case of 3 copies, and
apart from some oddments to do (I think) with MIME all emails are identical,
which means the recipient addresses & timestamps are identical ==> all three
emails were produce for the same recipient at the same time by the list
manager.  BTW I've added one of the diff contents to the end of this post
FYI.

My best understanding as of now is that I have managed (by attempting to
subscribe with illegal characters via the mass subscribe) to create two
hidden subscriptions which are active but unmanageable.  I can only see two
possible ways to address this:
1) edit the system-level data defining the subscribers - problematic as I'm
on dreamhost and do not have sysadmin access to the underlying data
2) find a way to create a pattern-match input to 'mass unsubscribe' which
would find and remove the entries.

Speculative scenario: if there are now three identical IDs in the underlying
database, the system may be unable to key on these in order to do anything
with them, but will process them sequentially when creating outgoing posts.

I have copies of the original outbound posts as received by Viv (my
subscriber), plus my diff files, if they are of any use, but as they contain
subscriber data I'm uncomfortable posting them public.

Any thoughts on how to proceed here?  Pretty please? :)

- Mike

Compare: (<)G:\Downloads\!in\viv hart list dupe #1.eml (4765 bytes)
   with: (>)G:\Downloads\!in\viv hart list dupe #3.eml (4765 bytes)

42c42
<     boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006E_01C76497.A8D09630"
---
>     boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0078_01C76497.A8D09630"
52,57c52,57
< ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C76497.A8D09630
< Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
<     boundary="----=_NextPart_001_006F_01C76497.A8D09630"
<
<
< ------=_NextPart_001_006F_01C76497.A8D09630
---
> ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01C76497.A8D09630
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>     boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0079_01C76497.A8D09630"
>
>
> ------=_NextPart_001_0079_01C76497.A8D09630
81c81
< ------=_NextPart_001_006F_01C76497.A8D09630
---
> ------=_NextPart_001_0079_01C76497.A8D09630
105,107c105,107
< ------=_NextPart_001_006F_01C76497.A8D09630--
<
< ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C76497.A8D09630
---
> ------=_NextPart_001_0079_01C76497.A8D09630--
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01C76497.A8D09630
119c119
< ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C76497.A8D09630--
---
> ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01C76497.A8D09630--


On 11/03/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Mike Maughan wrote:
> >
> >It is also possible I've discovered a bug, in which case the
> circumstances
> >were a mass subscribe exercise where (in this case) I forgot to add a
> space
> >between the username and the email address, so the input line looked like
> >this "User"<username at domain.com> and the list added them as this "User"
> >username at domain.com.
>
>
> I can't quite duplicate this. If I try to add "User"<user at example.com>,
> I add user at example.com with real name User as expected even though
> there is no separating space.
>
> However, I can add "User"user at example.com> or "User"user at example.com,
> and the address "User"user at example.com gets added with no real name.
> This too is what I would expect (I don't know if we should disallow "
> in an email address).
>
> The problem, the underlying cause of which I haven't yet identified (it
> probably messes up the post data from the web page), is it appears
> that you can't remove a user with who has a " in the email address by
> checking the unsub box on the membership list. However, you can remove
> this member by entering the address in Mass Removal.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 12 19:48:48 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 11:48:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What about mailman backup
In-Reply-To: <865f632b0703121127g576ad1c7wea826b4ac5566fb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070312114848053171f0d6a3@msapiro>

TRON478 wrote:
>
>i have now my list up and running, but now im asking myself how to backup
>the already subscribed users and lists? so if my machine one day chrashes, i
>want to set it up again an dont want to subcribers subribe again to my
>lists. is there a documentation for this point? or how are you doing?


There are some articles on this in the FAQ, but they are unduly
complicated.

It is probably sufficient to backup Mailman's lists/ and
archives/private/ directories. This won't get held messages waiting
moderator approval or messages in Mailman's processing queues, but it
will get the list data and membership and archives.

If you want held messages, you can add Mailman's data/ directory, and
if you want the queues, add qfiles/.

If all you want are list settings and membership, lists/*/config.pck*
will do it, and all the info needed to rebuild archives is in
archives/private/*.mbox/

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 12 20:27:12 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 12:27:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing illegal character or duplicated user
	names- update
In-Reply-To: <fde304e80703121145m451ea805i679f8c8e89f1b28e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703121227120765bc35f669@msapiro>

Mike Maughan wrote:

>To update you on this issue, I have a user whom I managed to subscribe
>incorrectly to the list and now cannot remove her.  There appear to be two
>hidden subscriptions, neither of which appear in the subscriptions page.
>
>If I leave her normal sub active, she gets three copies of list messages; if
>I suspend mail on her (visible) account, she gets 2 copies.
>
>I have diff-ed the full messages she receives in the case of 3 copies, and
>apart from some oddments to do (I think) with MIME all emails are identical,
>which means the recipient addresses & timestamps are identical ==> all three
>emails were produce for the same recipient at the same time by the list
>manager.  BTW I've added one of the diff contents to the end of this post
>FYI.


If the files you diffed contained All the Received: headers, this might
indicat the the duplication is occurring after final smtp delivery to
her, perhaps by message rules, but that would not explain why the
number goes from 3 to 2 when you suspend delivery.


>My best understanding as of now is that I have managed (by attempting to
>subscribe with illegal characters via the mass subscribe) to create two
>hidden subscriptions which are active but unmanageable.  I can only see two
>possible ways to address this:
>1) edit the system-level data defining the subscribers - problematic as I'm
>on dreamhost and do not have sysadmin access to the underlying data


That complicates things. You may need to enlist help from dreamhost.


>2) find a way to create a pattern-match input to 'mass unsubscribe' which
>would find and remove the entries.


Mass unsubscribe doesn't accept patterns.


>Speculative scenario: if there are now three identical IDs in the underlying
>database, the system may be unable to key on these in order to do anything
>with them, but will process them sequentially when creating outgoing posts.



Unless dreamhost is using a non-standard member adaptor in their
Mailman (I think they have a standard Mailman 2.1.9 with htdig
searching added),
your speculation is not possible. The member database is a Python
dictionary keyed by lower-case email address. It is not possible to
have duplicate keys in a Python dictionary, thus it is not possible to
have two entries with the same email address.


>I have copies of the original outbound posts as received by Viv (my
>subscriber), plus my diff files, if they are of any use, but as they contain
>subscriber data I'm uncomfortable posting them public.


Do these original messages contain all the Received: headers?


>Any thoughts on how to proceed here?  Pretty please? :)
>
>- Mike
>
>Compare: (<)G:\Downloads\!in\viv hart list dupe #1.eml (4765 bytes)
>   with: (>)G:\Downloads\!in\viv hart list dupe #3.eml (4765 bytes)
>
>42c42
><     boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006E_01C76497.A8D09630"
>---
>>     boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0078_01C76497.A8D09630"


The change in boundaries indicates that these messages were 'remailed'
which in turn indicates that you may not have all the original
headers. You need to get the entire raw message source for these
messages from Viv. How she gets this depends on her MUA.

Here are some other things you can try:

On the Membership list page, enter some pattern in the 'Find member'
box that will match for sure all of her possible addresses and as few
others as possible - maybe her username or part of the domain. The
idea is to get one page of results with just a few entries so you can
see the table and the 'n members total' heading. See if the number of
entries in the table is fewer than n from 'n members total'. If so,
look at the raw html source and see if you see anything.

If you have a 'personalize' setting on your Non-digest options page,
set it to 'Yes' and add the line

This message sent to %(user_delivered_to)s.

to msg_footer. If there really are three messages being sent, this
should be different in the three messages received.

Other things will require dreamhost cooperation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob at bigcircle.com  Mon Mar 12 23:28:12 2007
From: bob at bigcircle.com (Bob Minor)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:28:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribing users
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703121227120765bc35f669@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200703121227120765bc35f669@msapiro>
Message-ID: <ED45178B-B734-4D06-98A5-3733E74DB1D4@bigcircle.com>

Can I as a admin send a subscription request to subscribe other  
users? I don't want to do this via http I am looking to email the  
list serve and subvert the confirmation process. I want regular  
subscribers to continue to go through the confirmation process.

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Mar 12 23:35:15 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:35:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribing users
In-Reply-To: <ED45178B-B734-4D06-98A5-3733E74DB1D4@bigcircle.com>
References: <PC1760200703121227120765bc35f669@msapiro>
	<ED45178B-B734-4D06-98A5-3733E74DB1D4@bigcircle.com>
Message-ID: <200703122235.l2CMZGUc001347@unreal.eroded.org>

Bob Minor wrote:
>Can I as a admin send a subscription request to subscribe other
>users? I don't want to do this via http I am looking to email the
>list serve and subvert the confirmation process. I want regular
>subscribers to continue to go through the confirmation process.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I'm not sure why you want to avoid the web interface because it can 
do exactly what you want.

Using the Mass subscription option in the Membership management page 
of the web interface you can subscribe as many addresses as you want 
without the confirmation by simply clicking the Subscribe radio 
button and entering the addresses in the appropriate field. Is there 
some reason why this won't work for you?

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 13 01:22:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:22:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribing users
In-Reply-To: <ED45178B-B734-4D06-98A5-3733E74DB1D4@bigcircle.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070312172239076588c07ae4@msapiro>

Bob Minor wrote:

>Can I as a admin send a subscription request to subscribe other  
>users? I don't want to do this via http I am looking to email the  
>list serve and subvert the confirmation process. I want regular  
>subscribers to continue to go through the confirmation process.


You can request subscription of other users by email, but you can't
bypass the confirmation process.

If you don't want to use http because you are somewhere where using a
browser is inconvenient, you can send the equivalent of a POST of a
mass subscribe transaction via wget. See the thread beginning at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041213.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob at bigcircle.com  Tue Mar 13 04:57:14 2007
From: bob at bigcircle.com (Bob Minor)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 22:57:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribing users
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070312172239076588c07ae4@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070312172239076588c07ae4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6253E38C-CFC3-431B-ADFB-502249D5E8EE@bigcircle.com>

Thanks I have shoppers that I want to be able to check a box if they  
want to add themselves to our announcement list and I wanted to avoid  
the confirmation process

I can only imagine that I could do this via curl as well.

On Mar 12, 2007, at 7:22:39:0, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Bob Minor wrote:
>
>> Can I as a admin send a subscription request to subscribe other
>> users? I don't want to do this via http I am looking to email the
>> list serve and subvert the confirmation process. I want regular
>> subscribers to continue to go through the confirmation process.
>
>
> You can request subscription of other users by email, but you can't
> bypass the confirmation process.
>
> If you don't want to use http because you are somewhere where using a
> browser is inconvenient, you can send the equivalent of a POST of a
> mass subscribe transaction via wget. See the thread beginning at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/ 
> 041213.html>
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>


From tron478 at googlemail.com  Tue Mar 13 11:09:10 2007
From: tron478 at googlemail.com (TRON478)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:09:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can i make a list public so people who are not
	subcribed can send a message?
Message-ID: <865f632b0703130309l5a094f8fl781d25fc6d615d4c@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

i need the following scenario:

someone should be able to send to the list while he is not subscribed to the
list.

This seems to works, but the list admin must approve this. Is it possible
WITHOUT approval?

thank you
yavuz

From tron478 at googlemail.com  Tue Mar 13 11:15:56 2007
From: tron478 at googlemail.com (TRON478)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:15:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] my second problem: in the emails is my local
	hostname !?!?
Message-ID: <865f632b0703130315p7571412ck7d4661a114754e09@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

here is my second and i hope my last problem:

i get subscription mails which are like this one:


To post to this list, send your email to:

 test at lists.interactive-ip.eu

General information about the mailing list is at:

 http://xlistsrv.site/mailman/listinfo/test

If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to
or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your
subscription page at:



You see the response address is my internet domainname, this is correct. But
the mailinglist admin site is my local hostname.

This is my mm_cfg file:

IMAGES_LOGOS = '/icons/'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.interactive-ip.eu'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.interactive-ip.eu'
MTA='Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.interactive-ip.eu']
add_virtualhost('lists.interactive-ip.eu', 'lists.interactive-ip.eu')

i think it seems to be correct, but something must be wrong. What could it
be? Can you help. Thank you

yavuz

From pmb1 at york.ac.uk  Tue Mar 13 13:13:13 2007
From: pmb1 at york.ac.uk (Mike Brudenell)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:13:13 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] my second problem: in the emails is my local
	hostname !?!?
In-Reply-To: <865f632b0703130315p7571412ck7d4661a114754e09@mail.gmail.com>
References: <865f632b0703130315p7571412ck7d4661a114754e09@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0FD0DE18-519E-483F-ABC4-7D415760EAD8@york.ac.uk>

Greetings -

I fell into this problem too.  If memory serves it is because the  
DEFAULT_URL_HOST is used at *list creation* time to populate an entry  
its settings files.  Changing the DEFAULT_URL_HOST later only affects  
lists you create subsequently.

You need to run a script to fix up the URLs in the lists you have  
already created:

     bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname

To see the help text for the above run it directly, without the  
withlist:

     bin/fix_url.py

I think there was a second, related Gotcha that caught me too...  If  
your existing lists have archives then the pages already generated  
will have the wrong web server URL too.  (Check some of the links  
down at the bottom of their pages.)  If that's the case for you then  
you need to wipe and rebuild the HTML pages for each list's archives  
from its mbox file:

     bin/arch --wipe listname

I'd suggest trying each of the above on an unimportant or test list  
first to make sure I've got things right!

Cheers,
Mike B-)


On 13 Mar 2007, at 10:15, TRON478 wrote:

> i get subscription mails which are like this one:
>
>
> To post to this list, send your email to:
>
>  test at lists.interactive-ip.eu
>
> General information about the mailing list is at:
>
>  http://xlistsrv.site/mailman/listinfo/test
>
> If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to
> or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your
> subscription page at:
>
>
>
> You see the response address is my internet domainname, this is  
> correct. But
> the mailinglist admin site is my local hostname.
>
> This is my mm_cfg file:
>
> IMAGES_LOGOS = '/icons/'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.interactive-ip.eu'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.interactive-ip.eu'
> MTA='Postfix'
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.interactive-ip.eu']
> add_virtualhost('lists.interactive-ip.eu', 'lists.interactive-ip.eu')
>
> i think it seems to be correct, but something must be wrong. What  
> could it
> be? Can you help. Thank you

-- 
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel:+44-1904-433811  FAX:+44-1904-433740

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *



From pmb1 at york.ac.uk  Tue Mar 13 13:01:26 2007
From: pmb1 at york.ac.uk (Mike Brudenell)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:01:26 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can i make a list public so people who are
	not subcribed can send a message?
In-Reply-To: <865f632b0703130309l5a094f8fl781d25fc6d615d4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <865f632b0703130309l5a094f8fl781d25fc6d615d4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E3AC24A3-D1A6-4F28-86AA-245CF6E1B008@york.ac.uk>

Greetings -

On 13 Mar 2007, at 10:09, TRON478 wrote:

> i need the following scenario:
>
> someone should be able to send to the list while he is not  
> subscribed to the
> list.
>
> This seems to works, but the list admin must approve this. Is it  
> possible
> WITHOUT approval?

If you want ALL non-members to be able to post to the list then  
change the setting which is currently telling Mailman to put messages  
from non-members on hold until they are approved:

Go to the list's management pages, then
--> Privacy Options
--> Sender filters
--> Change "Action to take for postings from non-members for which no  
explicit action is defined. (Details for generic_nonmember_action)"  
setting from "Hold" to "Accept".

Then sit back and wait for spammers to find your list's address:  
their junk will then be immediately distributed to all the list's  
members.  :-}


Alternatively if you only want SOME non-members to be able to post to  
the list then, on the same page as above, put their e-mail addresses  
into the "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be  
automatically accepted. (Details for accept_these_nonmembers)" text  
box.  You can use regular expressions here if you wish.

...And just hope the spammers don't happen to forge messages to your  
list as being from one of these addresses.  :-}


Cheers,
Mike B-)

-- 
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel:+44-1904-433811  FAX:+44-1904-433740

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *



From her at adm.ku.dk  Tue Mar 13 15:13:07 2007
From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:13:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.5 - Local customizations is
	beingignored
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007031210314003129365d140@msapiro>
References: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BDBDF@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
	<PC17602007031210314003129365d140@msapiro>
Message-ID: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BDBE6@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>

Hi Mark

It seems that we had put the copy in /usr/lib/mailman/lists/<mylist>/da
instead of /var/lib/mailman/lists/<mylist>/da/ where the config.pck is.
Thanks.

Henrik 

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sendt: 12. marts 2007 18:32
Til: Henrik Rasmussen; Mailman Users
Emne: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.5 - Local customizations is
beingignored

Henrik Rasmussen wrote:
>
>I've read*) that to avoid customize the original templates, it is
>adviced to 
>
>"Create a directory lists/<yourlist>/en (assuming English :) and copy
>  templates/subscribeack.txt to this directory.  Then edit this file 
>  for your specific wording.  Mailman will use this specialized 
>  template for the English welcome messages."


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>
(which you might have found if you'd searched the FAQ for 'template'
instead of 'customize').


>I assume this does not require a OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = 1 


Correct.


>However, even I copy the file templates/da/verify.txt to
>lists/<mylist>/da/ (and check the directory and file permissions
>according to the originals) and restart the mailman server using
>mailmanctl restart, Mailman still uses the original template
>templates/da/verify.txt
>
>Do I have to change something in the Mailman configuration to use
>customized templates?

No. The only requirement is that the template be in one of the places
discussed in the above referenced FAQ, and that it be readable by the
mailman group.

Is the lists/<mylist>/ directory the existing directory that contains
the list's config.pck file?

Is the lists/<mylist>/da/verify.txt file you created readable by the
mailman group (i.e. group mailman and group readable or world
readable)?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tron478 at googlemail.com  Tue Mar 13 15:27:59 2007
From: tron478 at googlemail.com (TRON478)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:27:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can i make a list public so people who are
	not subcribed can send a message?
In-Reply-To: <E3AC24A3-D1A6-4F28-86AA-245CF6E1B008@york.ac.uk>
References: <865f632b0703130309l5a094f8fl781d25fc6d615d4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<E3AC24A3-D1A6-4F28-86AA-245CF6E1B008@york.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <865f632b0703130727sd9948b7j4647dea5e7dda1bf@mail.gmail.com>

hmmm, ok you are right with the spammers :) but my customer wants to open
the list for everyone. but another question: is it possible to work with
wildcards or domains like

*@custo.dom
or
cuto.dom

so only acceptance is for the domains above?

by the way :) > has mailman an irc channel? ;)

thank you
yavuz

On 3/13/07, Mike Brudenell <pmb1 at york.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> Greetings -
>
> On 13 Mar 2007, at 10:09, TRON478 wrote:
>
> > i need the following scenario:
> >
> > someone should be able to send to the list while he is not
> > subscribed to the
> > list.
> >
> > This seems to works, but the list admin must approve this. Is it
> > possible
> > WITHOUT approval?
>
> If you want ALL non-members to be able to post to the list then
> change the setting which is currently telling Mailman to put messages
> from non-members on hold until they are approved:
>
> Go to the list's management pages, then
> --> Privacy Options
> --> Sender filters
> --> Change "Action to take for postings from non-members for which no
> explicit action is defined. (Details for generic_nonmember_action)"
> setting from "Hold" to "Accept".
>
> Then sit back and wait for spammers to find your list's address:
> their junk will then be immediately distributed to all the list's
> members.  :-}
>
>
> Alternatively if you only want SOME non-members to be able to post to
> the list then, on the same page as above, put their e-mail addresses
> into the "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be
> automatically accepted. (Details for accept_these_nonmembers)" text
> box.  You can use regular expressions here if you wish.
>
> ...And just hope the spammers don't happen to forge messages to your
> list as being from one of these addresses.  :-}
>
>
> Cheers,
> Mike B-)
>
> --
> The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
> Tel:+44-1904-433811  FAX:+44-1904-433740
>
> * Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/tron478%40googlemail.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 13 17:58:20 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:58:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can i make a list public so people who
	arenot subcribed can send a message?
In-Reply-To: <865f632b0703130727sd9948b7j4647dea5e7dda1bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703130958200132b5a01998@msapiro>

TRON478 wrote:

>hmmm, ok you are right with the spammers :) but my customer wants to open
>the list for everyone. but another question: is it possible to work with
>wildcards or domains like
>
>*@custo.dom
>or
>cuto.dom
>
>so only acceptance is for the domains above?


Not wildcards, but regular expressions. You can put regular expressions
in accept_these_nonmembers. If an entry begins with ^, it is
interpreted as a case insensitive Python regular expression. See
<http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/re-syntax.html> for syntax
details. Your example would be something like

^.*@example\.com$

or perhaps

^.*@(.*\.)?example\.com$

which would accept domains like example.com and mail.example.com but
not myexample.com.


>by the way :) > has mailman an irc channel? ;)


See <http://www.list.org/devs.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From nuno at fccn.pt  Tue Mar 13 18:20:04 2007
From: nuno at fccn.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nuno_Gon=E7alves?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:20:04 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman accents in welcome message
Message-ID: <00a001c76593$e0776f30$1f2c88c1@corp.fccn.pt>

Hi all,
 
do you guys know where should we configure the accents in mailman messages ?
 
I would like to send a welcome message to new subscribers with accents, but
they apear with 

&#224; codes like.

I am running mailman 2.1.8 in freebsd !

Is it related with the code language of the SO ? or is it configured in
mailman specifically ?

thank you all and

best regards,

nuno


From pmb1 at york.ac.uk  Tue Mar 13 19:03:16 2007
From: pmb1 at york.ac.uk (Mike Brudenell)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:03:16 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can i make a list public so people who are
	not subcribed can send a message?
In-Reply-To: <865f632b0703130727sd9948b7j4647dea5e7dda1bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <865f632b0703130309l5a094f8fl781d25fc6d615d4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<E3AC24A3-D1A6-4F28-86AA-245CF6E1B008@york.ac.uk>
	<865f632b0703130727sd9948b7j4647dea5e7dda1bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <157D1C91-DEDE-41EC-B6DC-C88CB85E2385@york.ac.uk>

Greetings -

On 13 Mar 2007, at 14:27, TRON478 wrote:

> hmmm, ok you are right with the spammers :) but my customer wants  
> to open the list for everyone. but another question: is it possible  
> to work with wildcards or domains like
>
> *@custo.dom
> or
> cuto.dom
>
> so only acceptance is for the domains above?

Well, as I said in my message...
     "You can use regular expressions here if you wish."
:-)

If you click the "(Details for accept_these_nonmembers)" next to the  
text box you'll see a little additional help, which says:

     "Postings from any of these non-members will be automatically
      accepted with no further moderation applied. Add member addresses
      one per line; start the line with a ^ character to designate a
      regular expression match."

Thus rather than using the limited glob-style pattern matching such as
     *@custo.dom
you instead use full regular expression pattern matching such as
     ^.*@custo\.dom$

If the local part of the sender addresses (the bit to the left of the  
"@") follows a set pattern for all the customers who can send to the  
list then it might be possible to model that too.  For example, if  
the local part for each customer was of the form "initals.surname"  
then you might like to try something like:
     ^[a-z]+\.[a-z]+ at custo\.dom$
and thus prevent postings from "joe at custo.dom" (because "joe" doesn't  
match this format).

You will need to read up on the syntax used for these regular  
expressions.  For example "." means "any one character", whereas "\."  
means "the single character which really is a '.'"

Cheers,
Mike B-)

-- 
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel:+44-1904-433811  FAX:+44-1904-433740

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *



From gilmore.126 at osu.edu  Tue Mar 13 18:58:44 2007
From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:58:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribers
Message-ID: <005101c76599$3e1406d0$86f29280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>

I have not been able to find on the site, how to look up a subscriber by
their email address in mailman. Want to be able to see what lists they are
on?   I know you can look it up if you know one of the list they are on.
But what if you don't know any listname?   And pointers would be greatly
appreciated.

 

 

 


From ulrich at p-consult.at  Tue Mar 13 19:33:06 2007
From: ulrich at p-consult.at (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Ulrich_P=F6schl_//_p-consult=2Eat=22?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:33:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist mailman - python error
Message-ID: <45F6EE62.8080109@p-consult.at>

hello list,

after installing mailman on our server:

> Setting up mailman (2.1.5-8sarge5) ...
> Installing site language en ............................................ done.
> No updates are necessary.
> Site list for mailman (usually named mailman) missing
> Please create it; until then, mailman will refuse to start
> 

I try creating the site list with the command "newlist mailman" and this
is what I get:

> webprojects:/etc# newlist mailman
> Enter the email of the person running the list: poeschl at wir-sind.org
> Initial mailman password:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/sbin/newlist", line 226, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/usr/sbin/newlist", line 167, in main
>     mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 457, in Create
>     self.InitVars(name, admin, crypted_password)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 296, in InitVars
>     self.web_page_url = (
> TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting
> webprojects:/etc#                                 

System is Debian Sarge:
> webprojects:/etc# uname -r
> 2.6.9-023stab033.7-enterprise


Any ideas? Did I hit a bug? Because on the old system under Ubuntu
Server it worked like a charm. I am clueless.... :(

Thanks and kind regards,

Ulrich

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 13 19:51:49 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:51:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman accents in welcome message
In-Reply-To: <00a001c76593$e0776f30$1f2c88c1@corp.fccn.pt>
Message-ID: <PC17602007031311514904447201ec6d@msapiro>

Nuno Gon?alves wrote:
> 
>do you guys know where should we configure the accents in mailman messages ?
> 
>I would like to send a welcome message to new subscribers with accents, but
>they apear with 
>
>&#224; codes like.


Your browser converts the accented characters to the &#nnn; codes when
it submits the form data and Mailman makes no attempt to convert the
codes back.

You can use either bin/withlist or bin/config_list to set welcome_msg
to the desired text, but this is not a real solution because the next
time 'Submit Your Changes' on the General Options page is clicked, the
characters will revert to the &#nnn; codes.

The real solution is to make a list/language specific version of the
subscribeack.txt template as discussed at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.
Note that you can also make/edit a list specific version of this
template via the "Edit the public HTML pages and text files" link on
the admin pages, but this won't work for the same reason setting
welcome_msg doesn't work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 13 19:56:33 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:56:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribers
In-Reply-To: <005101c76599$3e1406d0$86f29280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703131156330960376c2ce1@msapiro>

Melinda wrote:

>I have not been able to find on the site, how to look up a subscriber by
>their email address in mailman. Want to be able to see what lists they are
>on?   I know you can look it up if you know one of the list they are on.
>But what if you don't know any listname?   And pointers would be greatly
>appreciated.


You use Mailman's command line tool bin/find_member. If you don't have
access to the command line tools, you can't do it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 13 20:06:01 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:06:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist mailman - python error
In-Reply-To: <45F6EE62.8080109@p-consult.at>
References: <45F6EE62.8080109@p-consult.at>
Message-ID: <45F6F619.5030209@value.net>

Ulrich P?schl // p-consult.at wrote:
> 
> I try creating the site list with the command "newlist mailman" and this
> is what I get:
> 
>> webprojects:/etc# newlist mailman
>> Enter the email of the person running the list: poeschl at wir-sind.org
>> Initial mailman password:
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/usr/sbin/newlist", line 226, in ?
>>     main()
>>   File "/usr/sbin/newlist", line 167, in main
>>     mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
>>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 457, in Create
>>     self.InitVars(name, admin, crypted_password)
>>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 296, in InitVars
>>     self.web_page_url = (
>> TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting
>> webprojects:/etc#                                 


It looks like you have set DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in mm_cfg.py and you have 
an extraneous '%' in addition to the '%s' for the host name.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mailman-owner at rx7-world.net  Tue Mar 13 20:21:44 2007
From: mailman-owner at rx7-world.net (John)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:21:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can i make a list public so people who are
 not subcribed can send a message?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.16441.1173811146.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.16441.1173811146.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <45F6F9C8.6020103@rx7-world.net>

I also would like to allow non-subscribers to send to a closed list, but I would
like auto-approve based on a custom header... Anyone modified Mailman for that?

Thanks,
John


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 13 20:48:40 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:48:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can i make a list public so people who
	arenot subcribed can send a message?
In-Reply-To: <45F6F9C8.6020103@rx7-world.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703131248400600278830e0@msapiro>

John wrote:

>I also would like to allow non-subscribers to send to a closed list, but I would
>like auto-approve based on a custom header... Anyone modified Mailman for that?


This has been discussed on this list before in various forms. Two
examples are
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-August/052759.html>
and
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-May/051378.html>.

What you do is implement a custom handler per
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>.
This handler needs to recognize the header and set the 'approved' flag
in the message metadata.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ulrich at p-consult.at  Tue Mar 13 21:04:02 2007
From: ulrich at p-consult.at (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ulrich_P=F6schl?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:04:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist mailman - python error
In-Reply-To: <45F6F619.5030209@value.net>
References: <45F6EE62.8080109@p-consult.at> <45F6F619.5030209@value.net>
Message-ID: <45F703B2.2090203@p-consult.at>

Mark Sapiro schrieb:
> Ulrich P?schl // p-consult.at wrote:
>>
>> I try creating the site list with the command "newlist mailman" and this
>> is what I get:
>>
>>> webprojects:/etc# newlist mailman
>>> Enter the email of the person running the list: poeschl at wir-sind.org
>>> Initial mailman password:
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File "/usr/sbin/newlist", line 226, in ?
>>>     main()
>>>   File "/usr/sbin/newlist", line 167, in main
>>>     mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
>>>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 457, in Create
>>>     self.InitVars(name, admin, crypted_password)
>>>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 296, in InitVars
>>>     self.web_page_url = (
>>> TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting
>>> webprojects:/etc#                                 
> 
> 
> It looks like you have set DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in mm_cfg.py and you have
> an extraneous '%' in addition to the '%s' for the host name.
> 


thanks a lot! your hint pointed me in the right direction. problem solved.

other question:

is it possible to use one mailman instance on a single server for two
different subdomains like

xx at lists.host1.com
yy at lists.anotherhost.com

it wouldn't be too bad if the two hosts see eachosters lists, but
mailman should be able to send/receive on both subdomains..

any good starting-point in the docs? or any good howtos on that?

thanks again, and kind regards from Vienna,

Ulrich

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 13 21:38:18 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:38:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts [was: newlist mailman - python
	error]
In-Reply-To: <45F703B2.2090203@p-consult.at>
Message-ID: <PC176020070313133818031927882fb1@msapiro>

Ulrich P?schl wrote:
>
>thanks a lot! your hint pointed me in the right direction. problem solved.
>
>other question:
>
>is it possible to use one mailman instance on a single server for two
>different subdomains like
>
>xx at lists.host1.com
>yy at lists.anotherhost.com
>
>it wouldn't be too bad if the two hosts see eachosters lists, but
>mailman should be able to send/receive on both subdomains..
>
>any good starting-point in the docs? or any good howtos on that?


Standard Mailman supports multiple virtual hosts from a single instance
with the restriction that all list names must be unique across all
hosts. This restriction is planned to be removed for Mailman 2.2 and
there are various patches available for Mailman 2.1 which may or may
not work. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp>.

If you can live with the unique list name restriction, the Mailman part
of virtual hosting is simple. In mm_cfg.py, just put add_virtualhost()
directives for the additional host(s), e.g.

add_virtualhost('www2.example.com', 'lists2.example.com')

Then web created lists will be created with the proper web and mail
host names based on the host name of the URL that accessed the create
page. bin/newlist has options for specifying domains other than
DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.

Lists will only be shown on the overview page for the accessing host
unless you set VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off.

Of course, you have to set up the virtual domains in the web server and
in the incoming MTA so that the web server invokes the mailman CGIs
for Mailman URLs for all the hosts and the MTA properly delivers list
mail for any host to Mailman. These latter things are specific to your
web server, MTA and virtual hosting setup.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ulrich at p-consult.at  Tue Mar 13 21:42:55 2007
From: ulrich at p-consult.at (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ulrich_P=F6schl?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:42:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts [was: newlist mailman - python
 error]
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070313133818031927882fb1@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070313133818031927882fb1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45F70CCF.8090902@p-consult.at>

Mark Sapiro schrieb:

> Standard Mailman supports multiple virtual hosts from a single instance
> with the restriction that all list names must be unique across all
> hosts. This restriction is planned to be removed for Mailman 2.2 and
> there are various patches available for Mailman 2.1 which may or may
> not work. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp>.
> 
> If you can live with the unique list name restriction, the Mailman part
> of virtual hosting is simple. In mm_cfg.py, just put add_virtualhost()
> directives for the additional host(s), e.g.
> 
> add_virtualhost('www2.example.com', 'lists2.example.com')
> 
> Then web created lists will be created with the proper web and mail
> host names based on the host name of the URL that accessed the create
> page. bin/newlist has options for specifying domains other than
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.
> 
> Lists will only be shown on the overview page for the accessing host
> unless you set VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off.
> 
> Of course, you have to set up the virtual domains in the web server and
> in the incoming MTA so that the web server invokes the mailman CGIs
> for Mailman URLs for all the hosts and the MTA properly delivers list
> mail for any host to Mailman. These latter things are specific to your
> web server, MTA and virtual hosting setup.
> 

heya. I'm astonished. it works like a charm.

i've tested running another instance from a different apache vhost and I
found it out myself in the meantime. I can live with the mentioned
restrictions very well...

thank you very much!

ciao,

Ulrich

From eugen at leitl.org  Tue Mar 13 21:48:53 2007
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:48:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman lighttpd cgi-bin weirdness
Message-ID: <20070313204853.GA22351@leitl.org>


(this is a resend, since my last post was probably discarded due to a digital signature)

I've been almost successful with my installation of mailman
with lighttpd and postfix (yay, I guess) on Debian 4.0, but for the following
gotcha:

http://postbiota.org/mailman/admin
has links with cgi-bin in them, e.g. http://postbiota.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/tt
which 404 with my current configuration.
I have a somewhat frankensteinian /etc/lighttpd/lighttpd.conf
which hopefully you can help me to debug:

server.modules              = (
            "mod_access",
            "mod_alias",
            "mod_accesslog",
            "mod_rewrite",
            "mod_cgi",
)

...

alias.url +=     (
       "/mailman/" => "/usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/",
        "/pipermail/" => "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/",
        "/images/mailman/" => "/usr/share/images/mailman/",
)

cgi.assign = (
        "/admin" => "",
        "/admin/" => "",
        "/admindb" => "",
        "/admindb/" => "",
        "/confirm" => "",
        "/confirm/" => "",
        "/create" => "",
        "/create/" => "",
        "/edithtml" => "",
        "/edithtml/" => "",
        "/listinfo" => "",
        "/listinfo/" => "",
        "/options" => "",
        "/options/" => "",
        "/private" => "",
        "/private/" => "",
        "/rmlist" => "",
        "/rmlist/" => "",
        "/roster" => "",
        "/roster/" => "",
        "/subscribe" => "",
        "/subscribe/" => ""
        )

url.rewrite = ( "^/$" => "/Mailman/listinfo",
                "^/Mailman/$" => "/Mailman/listinfo" )

See anything funny? 

-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820            http://www.ativel.com
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 13 21:59:18 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:59:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman lighttpd cgi-bin weirdness
In-Reply-To: <20070313204853.GA22351@leitl.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020070313135918077227883176@msapiro>

Eugen Leitl wrote:
>
>(this is a resend, since my last post was probably discarded due to a digital signature)


A signature shouldn't cause a post to be discarded on this list.


>http://postbiota.org/mailman/admin
>has links with cgi-bin in them, e.g. http://postbiota.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/tt
>which 404 with my current configuration.
>I have a somewhat frankensteinian /etc/lighttpd/lighttpd.conf
>which hopefully you can help me to debug:


It seems to me the only issue is the extraneous cgi-bin/ in the links.
This is there because at the time the lists were created, there was

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'

in mm_cfg.py. This should be just the default value

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

as set in Defaults.py. Once this is fixed, you need to run fix_url to
fix the lists themselves. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From eugen at leitl.org  Tue Mar 13 21:43:36 2007
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:43:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman lighttpd cgi-bin weirdness
Message-ID: <20070313204336.GP31912@leitl.org>


I've been almost successful with my installation of mailman
with lighttpd and postfix (yay, I guess) on Debian 4.0, but for the following
gotcha:

http://postbiota.org/mailman/admin
has links with cgi-bin in them, e.g. http://postbiota.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/tt
which 404 with my current configuration.
I have a somewhat frankensteinian /etc/lighttpd/lighttpd.conf
which hopefully you can help me to debug:

server.modules              = (
            "mod_access",
            "mod_alias",
            "mod_accesslog",
            "mod_rewrite",
            "mod_cgi",
)

...

alias.url +=     (
       "/mailman/" => "/usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/",
        "/pipermail/" => "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/",
        "/images/mailman/" => "/usr/share/images/mailman/",
)

cgi.assign = (
        "/admin" => "",
        "/admin/" => "",
        "/admindb" => "",
        "/admindb/" => "",
        "/confirm" => "",
        "/confirm/" => "",
        "/create" => "",
        "/create/" => "",
        "/edithtml" => "",
        "/edithtml/" => "",
        "/listinfo" => "",
        "/listinfo/" => "",
        "/options" => "",
        "/options/" => "",
        "/private" => "",
        "/private/" => "",
        "/rmlist" => "",
        "/rmlist/" => "",
        "/roster" => "",
        "/roster/" => "",
        "/subscribe" => "",
        "/subscribe/" => ""
        )

url.rewrite = ( "^/$" => "/Mailman/listinfo",
                "^/Mailman/$" => "/Mailman/listinfo" )

See anything funny? 

----- End forwarded message -----
-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820            http://www.ativel.com
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
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From eugen at leitl.org  Tue Mar 13 22:08:29 2007
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 22:08:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman lighttpd cgi-bin weirdness
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070313135918077227883176@msapiro>
References: <20070313204853.GA22351@leitl.org>
	<PC176020070313135918077227883176@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070313210829.GS31912@leitl.org>

On Tue, Mar 13, 2007 at 01:59:18PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> A signature shouldn't cause a post to be discarded on this list.

You're correct. I was too hasty in hitting resend.

> It seems to me the only issue is the extraneous cgi-bin/ in the links.
> This is there because at the time the lists were created, there was
> 
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'
> 
> in mm_cfg.py. This should be just the default value
> 
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
> 
> as set in Defaults.py. Once this is fixed, you need to run fix_url to
> fix the lists themselves. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

Perfect. That did the trick, and the solution arrived within minutes.
Thanks a lot!

-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820            http://www.ativel.com
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
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From gus at clacso.edu.ar  Tue Mar 13 22:22:19 2007
From: gus at clacso.edu.ar (Gustavo U. Navarro)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:22:19 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hello genaliases
Message-ID: <45F7160B.80400@clacso.edu.ar>

Hello
I need generate a file aliases in mailman.. for postfix..

but when I put  /bin/genaliases..

I can't  generarte..
Could anyone  help me...


thanks

gustavo navarro

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 13 22:55:57 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:55:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hello genaliases
In-Reply-To: <45F7160B.80400@clacso.edu.ar>
Message-ID: <PC176020070313145557013227882f1d@msapiro>

Gustavo U. Navarro wrote:

>I need generate a file aliases in mailman.. for postfix..


Do you have 

MTA = 'Postfix'

in mm_cfg.py?


>but when I put  /bin/genaliases..
>
>I can't  generarte..


What happens when you give the bin/genaliases command? What is the
response?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gus at clacso.edu.ar  Tue Mar 13 23:25:53 2007
From: gus at clacso.edu.ar (Gustavo U. Navarro)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:25:53 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hello genaliases
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070313145557013227882f1d@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070313145557013227882f1d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45F724F1.3010100@clacso.edu.ar>

Mark Sapiro escribi?:
> Gustavo U. Navarro wrote:
>
>   
>> I need generate a file aliases in mailman.. for postfix..
>>     
>
>
> Do you have 
>
> MTA = 'Postfix'
>
> in mm_cfg.py?
>
>
>   

not because I use local domain and not virtual domain
these is part of my file mm_cfg.py


#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
# automatically recognizes newly created lists.
# (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.{EXIM,...})
# MTA=None # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains, but be sure to
# read /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.POSTFIX first.
# MTA='Postfix'

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg, 
but you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in 
/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.



>> but when I put  /bin/genaliases..
>>
>> I can't  generarte..
>>     
>
>
> What happens when you give the bin/genaliases command? What is the
> response?
>
>   

## lista de distribuci?n mailman
mailman: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"



Could you help me...
thanks

gus

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 14 00:13:06 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:13:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hello genaliases
In-Reply-To: <45F724F1.3010100@clacso.edu.ar>
Message-ID: <PC176020070313161306050727883061@msapiro>

Gustavo U. Navarro wrote:

>Mark Sapiro escribi?:
>> Gustavo U. Navarro wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> I need generate a file aliases in mailman.. for postfix..
>>>     
>>
>>
>> Do you have 
>>
>> MTA = 'Postfix'
>>
>> in mm_cfg.py?
>>
>>
>>   
>
>not because I use local domain and not virtual domain
>these is part of my file mm_cfg.py


You still need MTA = 'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py if you want Mailman to
generate and maintain the data/aliases* files for Postfix.


>#-------------------------------------------------------------
># Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
># automatically recognizes newly created lists.
># (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.{EXIM,...})
># MTA=None # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist
>
>#-------------------------------------------------------------
># Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains, but be sure to
># read /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.POSTFIX first.
># MTA='Postfix'
>
># Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg, 
>but you
># didn't find it above, it's probably in 
>/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.


I don't know what brain dead packager put those comments in mm_cfg.py,
but that comment is just wrong. If you want Mailman to generate
aliases for Postfix, you need MTA = 'Postfix' whether or not you are
using virtual domains. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>. You need to do the
things discussed in sec 6.1.1 in any case. If you are using Postfix
virtual domains, you also need the things discussed in section 6.1.2.

You may also find the comments in Defaults.py regarding MTA and
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS to be of interest.


>>> but when I put  /bin/genaliases..
>>>
>>> I can't  generarte..
>>>     
>>
>>
>> What happens when you give the bin/genaliases command? What is the
>> response?
>>
>>   
>
>## lista de distribuci?n mailman
>mailman: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>mailman-admin: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>mailman-bounces: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
>mailman-confirm: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
>mailman-join: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
>mailman-leave: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
>mailman-owner: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
>mailman-request: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
>mailman-subscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
>mailman-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"


Because you have not overridden the default MTA = 'Manual', genaliases
just prints the aliases for you to deal with manually.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Wed Mar 14 03:28:29 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:28:29 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trapping messages with null subjects sent to
	list
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703020905360796a03868c0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200703140228.l2E2STah018786@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Mark Sapiro has said:
> 
> vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:
> 
> >Is there a recipe to put in the spam filters that will trap a totally
> >empty subject line in a message?   This get posted to a list with 
> >(no subject) in the subject line, but this is evidently added after
> >the spam filter check.  
> 
> 
> Try the following regexp in header_filter_rules with a Hold action
> 
> ^subject:\s*(\(no subject\))?\s*$
> 
I put that line in the spam filter (actually, copied and pasted it).

I'm still seeing the first post with a null subject line blasting
through without getting trapped.  It shows up as (no subject) when
distributed by the list, but isn't trapped until it's gone out to the
list (too late).

All the responses, of course, get trapped by the preexisting trap.

I did try
subject:\n

But that traps a bunch of mangled subject lines where the user's MUA
has munged the original to add spaces.

Hank

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 14 05:03:49 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:03:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trapping messages with null subjects sent to
	list
In-Reply-To: <200703140228.l2E2STah018786@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703132103490788278831a5@msapiro>

vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

>The esteemed Mark Sapiro has said:
>> 
>> vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:
>> 
>> >Is there a recipe to put in the spam filters that will trap a totally
>> >empty subject line in a message?   This get posted to a list with 
>> >(no subject) in the subject line, but this is evidently added after
>> >the spam filter check.  
>> 
>> 
>> Try the following regexp in header_filter_rules with a Hold action
>> 
>> ^subject:\s*(\(no subject\))?\s*$
>> 
>I put that line in the spam filter (actually, copied and pasted it).
>
>I'm still seeing the first post with a null subject line blasting
>through without getting trapped.  It shows up as (no subject) when
>distributed by the list, but isn't trapped until it's gone out to the
>list (too late).
>
>All the responses, of course, get trapped by the preexisting trap.
>
>I did try
>subject:\n
>
>But that traps a bunch of mangled subject lines where the user's MUA
>has munged the original to add spaces.


The original regexp in header_filter_rules should catch any subject
header consisting only of white space and zero or one occurrences of
'(no subject)'.

I think the issue may be that the incoming post has no Subject: header
at all rather than an empty one. In this event, if there is a
subject_prefix, Mailman will add a Subject: header with the list
prefix and '(no subject)'. If there is no subject_prefix, the message
will be sent from Mailman with no Subject: header.

If that is the issue, you need 3 header_filter_rules. The first is as
above to catch the empty or (no subject). The second is with a regexp
of

^subject:

and an action of accept to accept the remaining messages with Subject:
headers, and the third has a regexp

^.

and an action of hold to hold all messages that fall through the second.

If you have other header_filter_rules, they should come before the
accept rule (#2) or they won't be reached.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cheryl at bnatural.com  Wed Mar 14 05:59:05 2007
From: cheryl at bnatural.com (Cheryl Faye Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:59:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new server
Message-ID: <009201c765f5$8274bcf0$6401a8c0@CHERYL>

Is it possible to migrate the archives from Mailman on one server to another server?

==================================================================
Cheryl Faye Schwartz, Owner  cheryl at bnatural.com
BenSalem Naturals  http://www.bnatural.com 
go to http://www.bnatural.com/webcart10/next_pages/bonus.htm for this month's sale items
phone/Voicemail 1 215 638-0627
FAX 1 (802) 609-0627 
Your Health is Our Business!
Practice Safe Computing -- get anti-virus software!!
===== affordable health & pleasure ================================

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 14 06:15:31 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 22:15:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new server
In-Reply-To: <009201c765f5$8274bcf0$6401a8c0@CHERYL>
Message-ID: <PC176020070313221531066333824bf6@msapiro>

Cheryl Faye Schwartz wrote:

>Is it possible to migrate the archives from Mailman on one server to another server?


Yes. The most direct way is to just move the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file from the old server
to the new and then build the archives on the new server with
bin/arch. If there are archives on both servers, just combine the
listname.mbox files.

It's a good idea to at least check the .mbox file with bin/cleanarch
before running bin/arch. Use the --help options on both commands for
more info.

You can also move the list (settings, membership, member options) by
moving the lists/listname/config.pck file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jetta.view at gmx.de  Wed Mar 14 09:14:18 2007
From: jetta.view at gmx.de (jetta.view)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:14:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman mails are detected as spam
Message-ID: <20070314081437.084B21E400B@bag.python.org>

hi @ll,

if i send an email with using mailman,
many recipients don't get this mail, because
it is detected as spam. e.g. gmx, and 1&1 do this,

how can i prevent this?

thanks for your help

emmi 


From markus.schoepflin at comsoft.de  Wed Mar 14 13:19:08 2007
From: markus.schoepflin at comsoft.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Sch=F6pflin=2C_Markus?=)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:19:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Resending mails to NNTP server
Message-ID: <40F3336F23655C40B56A07E462FE8EAB1277D2@cspop2.comsoft.de>

Hello,

we have a mailing list which is gated to a NNTP server in both directions. In the past few days, some messages have been lost on the NNTP server due to local issues. How can I tell mailman to repost some of the messages to the news server? Is this somehow possible?

I'm using mailman-2.1.5.1 and inn-2.3.5 on RHEL4.

TIA,
Markus Sch?pflin



From gilmore.126 at osu.edu  Wed Mar 14 13:54:32 2007
From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:54:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] omitting on the webpage
Message-ID: <002401c76637$e97daaf0$86f29280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>

We are getting ready to implement Mailman and the concern is being able to
omit some items from the Admin webpages.   I can see that the gui has all
the *.py files.  Can you just comment out those lines that you do not want
to show.  Are there more steps than just commenting out the lines in the .py
file under the Gui folder.   I could use a little more direction.

 

I did try commenting out with a # but just got an error about mailman is
having problems.   

 

Thanks

 

Melinda Gilmore

Systems Engineer

OIT/Enterprise Messaging

614-292-4953

 

 


From mike.maughan at gmail.com  Wed Mar 14 14:08:48 2007
From: mike.maughan at gmail.com (Mike Maughan)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:08:48 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Illegal characters in subscribed name - follow up
	and resolution
Message-ID: <fde304e80703140608i6116ce50n900ae309fa415d6c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I reported a problem a few days ago where - due to some finger trouble and
being too tired to check properly -  I had managed to mass-subscribe an id
of the form "username"useremail at domain.ext> (note the missing '<' at the
start of the email address.  Mailman accepted the subscription and proceeded
to deliver mail BUT would not let me see or manage the sub in the
subscription page.

A further problem was the subscriber was receiving multiple copies of list
posts.

Investigations with the hosting company (dreamhost), mail tests, feedback
from this list and especially some direct & detailed help from Mark
(Shapiro) helped to resolve the problems to be:

1) the mass subscription page will allow one to subscribe illegal or unusual
user names to the list ("username"useremail at domain.ext>) which do not appear
in the normal subscription table.
- mass unsub will remove such subscriptions
- Mark & others have discussed whether this is a 'bug' or a 'feature' and
will no doubt respond accordingly :)

2) the user's mail rules were found to be creating extra duplicates and have
now been fixed.

Many thanks again for the help & support; it's good to know there are people
'out there' who care ...

-- 
Regards, Mike

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 14 16:03:22 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:03:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] omitting on the webpage
In-Reply-To: <002401c76637$e97daaf0$86f29280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703140803220968ac171a7e@msapiro>

Melinda wrote:

>We are getting ready to implement Mailman and the concern is being able to
>omit some items from the Admin webpages.   I can see that the gui has all
>the *.py files.  Can you just comment out those lines that you do not want
>to show.  Are there more steps than just commenting out the lines in the .py
>file under the Gui folder.   I could use a little more direction.


If you look in Defaults.py, you will find

# This variable controls the order in which list-specific category
options are
# presented in the admin cgi page.
ADMIN_CATEGORIES = [
    # First column
    'general', 'passwords', 'language', 'members', 'nondigest',
'digest',
    # Second column
    'privacy', 'bounce', 'archive', 'gateway', 'autoreply',
    'contentfilter', 'topics',
    ]

If you copy this to mm_cfg.py, you can then remove various categories
from the list in mm_cfg.py, and those links won't appear and you won't
be able to visit those pages. Two additional things:

You can remove 'general' but you can always go to that page anyway
because it is the default.

If you remove things, the columns will rearrange despite the comments.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 14 16:24:25 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:24:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Resending mails to NNTP server
In-Reply-To: <40F3336F23655C40B56A07E462FE8EAB1277D2@cspop2.comsoft.de>
Message-ID: <PC17602007031408242508752df5d9c4@msapiro>

Sch?pflin, Markus wrote:
>
>we have a mailing list which is gated to a NNTP server in both directions.
>In the past few days, some messages have been lost on the NNTP server
>due to local issues. How can I tell mailman to repost some of the
>messages to the news server? Is this somehow possible?


If you have the source of the messages as received from the list, you
can inject them one at a time into the 'news' queue with bin/inject.

You need the message as received from the list, or you need to add an

X-BeenThere: listname at example.com

header to the message you inject, or cron/gate_news will post it back
to the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From nuno at fccn.pt  Wed Mar 14 17:12:29 2007
From: nuno at fccn.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nuno_Gon=E7alves?=)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:12:29 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Changing real_name Variable in welcome
	message subject !
Message-ID: <00e301c76653$927ea300$1f2c88c1@corp.fccn.pt>

Hi all,
 
I am looking a way in order to change the subject of the welcome message.
In the file in [Mailman home directory/Mailman/Deliverer.py] (line 79) there
is a line :
_('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s')
 
Is there anyway of subtituting the variable realname for one in the
acceptable aliases list (the firts one for instance)?
Is there any variable acceptable_aliases (confs/list.conf) accessable in the
Deliverer.py ?
 
The objective here is that the list address alias is in the subject line
instead of the list realname.
 
Any hint is appreciated
 
best regards to you all

--
Nuno Gon?alves



From steele at agora-net.com  Wed Mar 14 17:56:41 2007
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:56:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail eats MM messages
Message-ID: <45F82949.3090701@agora-net.com>

I have what appears to be a case of GMail eating message posts... allow 
me to explain.

I have a user, foobar at gmail.com, who posts to a Mailman list hosted on 
one of my servers.  According to my Exim and Mailman logs, it is 
received by the MTA, passed on to Mailman, posted successfully, and sent 
back out to all the recipients, including foobar at gmail.com.  However, 
the email never shows up in foobar at gmail.com's inbox, spam folder, or 
any other folder.  I went back to check the Exim log for failed or 
delayed deliveries, only to find nothing (well, for foobar at gmail.com 
anyways :-)

Is it the case that since Mailman makes the posting look like it came 
from foobar at gmail.com (i.e., it's claiming to be that user), and since 
one of the recipients is foobar at gmail.com, that Google drops it at the 
gate and refuses to even handle it because it looks forged?  Has anybody 
else experienced this issue?

Thanks in advance!

Best Regards,
Ryan Steele

-- 
Ryan Steele                         
Systems Administrator               steele at agora-net.com
AgoraNet, Inc.                      (302) 224-2475
314 E. Main Street, Suite 1         (302) 224-2552 (fax)
Newark, DE 19711                    http://www.agora-net.com


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Wed Mar 14 18:34:04 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:34:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail eats MM messages
In-Reply-To: <45F82949.3090701@agora-net.com>
References: <45F82949.3090701@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <20070314173404.GA13824@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Ryan Steele (steele at agora-net.com):
> I have a user, foobar at gmail.com, who posts to a Mailman list hosted on 
> one of my servers.  According to my Exim and Mailman logs, it is 
> received by the MTA, passed on to Mailman, posted successfully, and sent 
> back out to all the recipients, including foobar at gmail.com.  However, 
> the email never shows up in foobar at gmail.com's inbox, spam folder, or 
> any other folder.  I went back to check the Exim log for failed or 
> delayed deliveries, only to find nothing (well, for foobar at gmail.com 
> anyways :-)

One of the "features" of gmail is that it doesn't show you the return of
mail that you sent to mailing list, only the one you sent (so without the
mailing list subject line prefix, headers, etc).  It's annoying as hell if
you ask me, but that's gmail for you.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Don't you just hate them?  Don't you just wanna break their ribs,
cut their backs open and pull their lungs out from behind?
              -- Ina Faye-Lund, on script kiddies

From zig.wei at gmail.com  Wed Mar 14 18:39:01 2007
From: zig.wei at gmail.com (Wei Yu)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 01:39:01 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change the URL of Mailman web interface
Message-ID: <65ec0b360703141039m949c2f7nd1e42a9609cd632f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!

The default url of Mailman is /mailman/. But I want to change it to some
/q/mailman/.
Unfortunately, /q/ is mapped by using "ScriptAlias", it means that
"ScriptAlias /q/mailman/" will be overrided by /q/.
I tried to make a symbol link to the mailman cgi-bin directory under /q/ but
mailman failed to work.

Any suggestions on this issue?

Thanks.

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Mar 14 18:51:39 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 10:51:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail eats MM messages
In-Reply-To: <20070314173404.GA13824@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <45F82949.3090701@agora-net.com>
	<20070314173404.GA13824@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <200703141752.l2EHpfOd016597@unreal.eroded.org>

Paul Tomblin wrote:
>Quoting Ryan Steele (steele at agora-net.com):
> > I have a user, foobar at gmail.com, who posts to a Mailman list hosted on
> > one of my servers.  According to my Exim and Mailman logs, it is
> > received by the MTA, passed on to Mailman, posted successfully, and sent
> > back out to all the recipients, including foobar at gmail.com.  However,
> > the email never shows up in foobar at gmail.com's inbox, spam folder, or
> > any other folder.  I went back to check the Exim log for failed or
> > delayed deliveries, only to find nothing (well, for foobar at gmail.com
> > anyways :-)
>
>One of the "features" of gmail is that it doesn't show you the return of
>mail that you sent to mailing list, only the one you sent (so without the
>mailing list subject line prefix, headers, etc).  It's annoying as hell if
>you ask me, but that's gmail for you.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

There is a FAQ entry on this.

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp

And yeah, Gmail does some stinky things. (I am not a fan of web mail 
in general, or even IMAP for that matter, give me a good MUA and POP3 
and I am happy).



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From steele at agora-net.com  Wed Mar 14 19:13:46 2007
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:13:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail eats MM messages
In-Reply-To: <20070314172745.GA3449@patriot.net>
References: <45F82949.3090701@agora-net.com>
	<20070314172745.GA3449@patriot.net>
Message-ID: <45F83B5A.2080608@agora-net.com>

Alan McConnell wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 12:56:41PM -0400, Ryan Steele wrote:
>   
>> Is it the case that since Mailman makes the posting look like it came 
>> from foobar at gmail.com (i.e., it's claiming to be that user), and since 
>> one of the recipients is foobar at gmail.com, that Google drops it at the 
>> gate and refuses to even handle it because it looks forged?  Has anybody 
>> else experienced this issue?
>>     
> 	Google/gmail is smarter than we are.  It "knows" that since
> 	foobar sent the message, foobar knows what is in the message,
> 	and therefore doesn't want it cluttering up his(foobar's) Inbox.
>
> I wrote a letter to the gmail honchos about this, which I reproduce
> below.  Of course I heard nothing.  But maybe if 5 or 50 or 500 of
> us wrote similar messages, something might happen . . .  ?
>   

Count me in for doing my part - I've written a similar letter:

To the folks at GMail:

It has been widely discussed and reported that mailing lists and GMail 
to not play nicely together.  For example, if I want to implement 
Mailman, one of the most (if not /the/ most) popular mailing list 
managers, I can expect NOT to receive a response to a list posting using 
my GMail account, if I happen to be a member of that list. 

Obviously, it's because you all either

A) consider the email forged when a message that claims to be from a 
GMail user seems to originate from another server's MTA (e.g., the mail 
server running Mailman), or

B) decide they shouldn't know that their posting was actually received 
by the mailing list by conveniently dropping any message which seems to 
have an identical copy in the Sent folder.

Now, I'm sure that you all consider it a "feature" that you drop it at 
the gate instead of sending it to the Inbox, or Spam folder, or anwhere 
else the user can identify as having "received" it, but those of us who 
use, administer, and run mailing list software do not find this to be 
either cute or a "feature", as many of us (and the general public) 
prefer not to follow threads both in the Inbox and the Sent folders.  
It's not as big of an issue if you've got a previous instance of the 
thread in your Inbox (e.g., you aren't the creator of the post thread), 
but this is an annoyance if you are.

I know that, up until this point, we've (the community, that is) 
received deafening silence on this issue, so I only find it fair to take 
the standard "David vs. Goliath" approach, and use my slingshot 
(blogging, and column in the local tech gazette) to toss stones.  Of 
course, if we could simply have the option of toggling off the "feature" 
that mandates we don't receive copies that are similar to those in our 
Sent boxes, that would be preferable for both parties, I'm sure. 

Thanks for your time!

Ryan Steele
Systems Administrator

> Alan, who enjoys p*ss*ng up waterfalls
>
>   

:-D My co-workers and I got a kick out of that signature!

> (start)------------------------------------
> I would like to have mail that I send to an E-list
> (aka list-serve, E-mail list) from my gmail account,
> accepted when it is sent back to me; it should appear
> in my Inbox.  (I get postings from other list members,
> so the list SW is OK).
>
> It must have taken effort for Gmail to send these messages
> to /dev/null.  I would like that effort to be undone.
>
> Many thanks in advance,
>
> Alan McConnell
>
>                                  --------------------------(finish)
>
>   


-- 
Ryan Steele                         
Systems Administrator               steele at agora-net.com
AgoraNet, Inc.                      (302) 224-2475
314 E. Main Street, Suite 1         (302) 224-2552 (fax)
Newark, DE 19711                    http://www.agora-net.com


From alan at patriot.net  Wed Mar 14 18:27:45 2007
From: alan at patriot.net (Alan McConnell)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:27:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail eats MM messages
In-Reply-To: <45F82949.3090701@agora-net.com>
References: <45F82949.3090701@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <20070314172745.GA3449@patriot.net>

On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 12:56:41PM -0400, Ryan Steele wrote:
>
> Is it the case that since Mailman makes the posting look like it came 
> from foobar at gmail.com (i.e., it's claiming to be that user), and since 
> one of the recipients is foobar at gmail.com, that Google drops it at the 
> gate and refuses to even handle it because it looks forged?  Has anybody 
> else experienced this issue?
	Google/gmail is smarter than we are.  It "knows" that since
	foobar sent the message, foobar knows what is in the message,
	and therefore doesn't want it cluttering up his(foobar's) Inbox.

I wrote a letter to the gmail honchos about this, which I reproduce
below.  Of course I heard nothing.  But maybe if 5 or 50 or 500 of
us wrote similar messages, something might happen . . .  ?

Alan, who enjoys p*ss*ng up waterfalls

(start)------------------------------------
I would like to have mail that I send to an E-list
(aka list-serve, E-mail list) from my gmail account,
accepted when it is sent back to me; it should appear
in my Inbox.  (I get postings from other list members,
so the list SW is OK).

It must have taken effort for Gmail to send these messages
to /dev/null.  I would like that effort to be undone.

Many thanks in advance,

Alan McConnell

                                 --------------------------(finish)

-- 
Alan McConnell :  http://patriot.net/users/alan
    "He lies.  He spies.  He wants us to ignore
    His war . . ."   Impeach him!

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Wed Mar 14 19:49:04 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:49:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail eats MM messages
In-Reply-To: <200703141752.l2EHpfOd016597@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <45F82949.3090701@agora-net.com>
	<20070314173404.GA13824@allhats.xcski.com>
	<200703141752.l2EHpfOd016597@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <20070314184904.GA26223@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Dragon (dragon at crimson-dragon.com):
> Paul Tomblin wrote:
> >Quoting Ryan Steele (steele at agora-net.com):
> >> any other folder.  I went back to check the Exim log for failed or
> >> delayed deliveries, only to find nothing (well, for foobar at gmail.com
> >> anyways :-)
> >
> >One of the "features" of gmail is that it doesn't show you the return of
> >mail that you sent to mailing list, only the one you sent (so without the
> >mailing list subject line prefix, headers, etc).  It's annoying as hell if
> >you ask me, but that's gmail for you.
> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
> 
> There is a FAQ entry on this.
> 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp

That FAQ entry says absolutely nothing about the issue in question.  GMail
isn't rejecting the message thinking it's spam, they're discarding your
copy of it.  Other gmail users will recieve it, it's only the sender who
won't see it.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"He who demands everything that his aircraft can give him is a pilot; he
that demands one iota more is a fool."

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Mar 14 21:32:54 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:32:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail eats MM messages
In-Reply-To: <20070314184904.GA26223@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <45F82949.3090701@agora-net.com>
	<20070314173404.GA13824@allhats.xcski.com>
	<200703141752.l2EHpfOd016597@unreal.eroded.org>
	<20070314184904.GA26223@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <p06240506c21e0bf398e7@[10.0.1.201]>

At 2:49 PM -0400 3/14/07, Paul Tomblin wrote:

>>  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp
>
>  That FAQ entry says absolutely nothing about the issue in question.  GMail
>  isn't rejecting the message thinking it's spam, they're discarding your
>  copy of it.  Other gmail users will recieve it, it's only the sender who
>  won't see it.

Well, you can always update the FAQ entry in question, or create a 
new FAQ entry for this subject.  It is a community-supported effort, 
and the instructions for updating the FAQ entries can be found within 
the editing interface of the FAQ Wizard itself.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From gus at clacso.edu.ar  Thu Mar 15 00:06:15 2007
From: gus at clacso.edu.ar (Gustavo U. Navarro)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 20:06:15 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hello genaliases
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070313161306050727883061@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070313161306050727883061@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45F87FE7.3040400@clacso.edu.ar>

Mark
Thanks very much..
It is ok..

Gus

Mark Sapiro escribi?:
> Gustavo U. Navarro wrote:
>
>   
>> Mark Sapiro escribi?:
>>     
>>> Gustavo U. Navarro wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> I need generate a file aliases in mailman.. for postfix..
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> Do you have 
>>>
>>> MTA = 'Postfix'
>>>
>>> in mm_cfg.py?
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> not because I use local domain and not virtual domain
>> these is part of my file mm_cfg.py
>>     
>
>
> You still need MTA = 'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py if you want Mailman to
> generate and maintain the data/aliases* files for Postfix.
>
>
>   
>> #-------------------------------------------------------------
>> # Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
>> # automatically recognizes newly created lists.
>> # (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.{EXIM,...})
>> # MTA=None # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist
>>
>> #-------------------------------------------------------------
>> # Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains, but be sure to
>> # read /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.POSTFIX first.
>> # MTA='Postfix'
>>
>> # Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg, 
>> but you
>> # didn't find it above, it's probably in 
>> /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.
>>     
>
>
> I don't know what brain dead packager put those comments in mm_cfg.py,
> but that comment is just wrong. If you want Mailman to generate
> aliases for Postfix, you need MTA = 'Postfix' whether or not you are
> using virtual domains. See
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>. You need to do the
> things discussed in sec 6.1.1 in any case. If you are using Postfix
> virtual domains, you also need the things discussed in section 6.1.2.
>
> You may also find the comments in Defaults.py regarding MTA and
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS to be of interest.
>
>
>   
>>>> but when I put  /bin/genaliases..
>>>>
>>>> I can't  generarte..
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> What happens when you give the bin/genaliases command? What is the
>>> response?
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> ## lista de distribuci?n mailman
>> mailman: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>> mailman-admin: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>> mailman-bounces: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
>> mailman-confirm: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
>> mailman-join: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
>> mailman-leave: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
>> mailman-owner: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
>> mailman-request: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
>> mailman-subscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
>> mailman-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
>>     
>
>
> Because you have not overridden the default MTA = 'Manual', genaliases
> just prints the aliases for you to deal with manually.
>
>   


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 15 00:45:12 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:45:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman mails are detected as spam
In-Reply-To: <20070314081437.084B21E400B@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703141645120890e95271e6@msapiro>

jetta.view wrote:
>
>if i send an email with using mailman,
>many recipients don't get this mail, because
>it is detected as spam. e.g. gmx, and 1&1 do this,
>
>how can i prevent this?


Here are some things to consider.

First, this is really a question for the ISPs that are blocking the
mail, preferrably asked by a paying customer asking "why are you
censoring my mail and blocking mail I wish to receive".

Second, If you are trying to diagnose this, it is important to know
whether these ISPs are blocking all mail from your server or just mail
from Mailman. Can you send non-Mailman mail directly from the same MTA
or at least the same IP address that Mailman mail comes from? Does
that mail get blocked? If so, the issue is with your server, not with
Mailman. You can look up your server's IP address at several web sites
to see if it is listed in various spam block lists. Some of these are
<http://openrbl.org/>, <http://www.dnsstuff.com/>,
<http://moensted.dk/spam/> and
<http://www.completewhois.com/rbl_lookup.htm>.

Third, there is a small FAQ you may find helpful at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 15 01:08:35 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 17:08:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Changing real_name Variable in
	welcomemessage subject !
In-Reply-To: <00e301c76653$927ea300$1f2c88c1@corp.fccn.pt>
Message-ID: <PC17602007031417083509532788323c@msapiro>

Nuno Gon?alves wrote:
>
>I am looking a way in order to change the subject of the welcome message.
>In the file in [Mailman home directory/Mailman/Deliverer.py] (line 79) there
>is a line :
>_('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s')
>
>
>Is there anyway of subtituting the variable realname for one in the
>acceptable aliases list (the firts one for instance)?
>Is there any variable acceptable_aliases (confs/list.conf) accessable in the
>Deliverer.py ?


You could do this in several ways. If you really want to do exactly
what you said, you could change

        realname = self.real_name
        msg = Message.UserNotification(
            self.GetMemberAdminEmail(name), self.GetRequestEmail(),
            _('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s'),
            text, pluser)

to

        realname = self.acceptable_aliases[0]
        msg = Message.UserNotification(
            self.GetMemberAdminEmail(name), self.GetRequestEmail(),
            _('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s'),
            text, pluser)

but then you have to guarantee that every list has at least one entry
in acceptable_aliases, because referencing self.acceptable_aliases[0]
will throw an IndexError exception if the acceptable_aliases list is
empty.

A more realistic approach would just be to use the normal list posting
address, not an alias. Then the code would be

        realname = self.getListAddress()
        msg = Message.UserNotification(
            self.GetMemberAdminEmail(name), self.GetRequestEmail(),
            _('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s'),
            text, pluser)

Note that both of the above change only the first line - the assignment
to realname.

If you really wanted to get fancy and use an alias iff there was one,
you could do

        if self.acceptable_aliases:
            realname = self.acceptable_aliases[0]
        else:
            realname = self.getListAddress()
        msg = Message.UserNotification(
            self.GetMemberAdminEmail(name), self.GetRequestEmail(),
            _('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s'),
            text, pluser)


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carlp at wetleather.com  Thu Mar 15 01:32:41 2007
From: carlp at wetleather.com (Carl Paukstis)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 17:32:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Show bounce score
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15595.1173426343.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.15595.1173426343.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <20070315003241.GB14444@moto1.micapeak.com>


Is there an easy way for me as server operator, or for list owners, to
find out the bounce score and other bounce-processing details for an
individual subscriber address (or all subscribers on a list)?

-- 
Carl Paukstis                                   carlp at wetleather.com
WetLeather.com  /  Micapeak.com              listmaster at micapeak.com
Spokane, Washington, USA                     http://www.paukstis.com/

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 15 05:19:22 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:19:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Show bounce score
In-Reply-To: <20070315003241.GB14444@moto1.micapeak.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703142119220609e10f70d7@msapiro>

Carl Paukstis wrote:
>
>Is there an easy way for me as server operator, or for list owners, to
>find out the bounce score and other bounce-processing details for an
>individual subscriber address (or all subscribers on a list)?


The easiest way to check an individual subscriber is to find the person
in the admin Membership list and follow the link to their options
page, and if they have a bounce score it is reported on that page.

For a single user or an entire list, you can grep Mailman's bounce log
(or logs if they rotate) for the user's email or the list name.

You could also make a withlist script to report the bounce info for
bouncing members. I just added a simple one (get_bounce_info.py) to my
examples at <http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/> (mirror
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/>). At a minimum it could use an
option to ignore stale info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From markus.schoepflin at comsoft.de  Thu Mar 15 09:26:38 2007
From: markus.schoepflin at comsoft.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Sch=F6pflin=2C_Markus?=)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:26:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Resending mails to NNTP server
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007031408242508752df5d9c4@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007031408242508752df5d9c4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <40F3336F23655C40B56A07E462FE8EAB1277D4@cspop2.comsoft.de>

I'm resending this mail to the list as I managed to send it to Mark only yesterday... :-(

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Sch?pflin, Markus wrote:
>> we have a mailing list which is gated to a NNTP server in both directions.
>> In the past few days, some messages have been lost on the NNTP server
>> due to local issues. How can I tell mailman to repost some of the
>> messages to the news server? Is this somehow possible?
> 
> 
> If you have the source of the messages as received from the list, you
> can inject them one at a time into the 'news' queue with bin/inject.
> 
> You need the message as received from the list, or you need to add an
> 
> X-BeenThere: listname at example.com
> 
> header to the message you inject, or cron/gate_news will post it back
> to the list.

Yes, that worked, thanks a lot.

For future reference, here is the procedure I used:

1. Copy the mailman mbox file to a temporary location.
2. Using mutt, save the missing messages to an external file, one file per 
message.
3. For every message file: /usr/lib/mailman/bin/inject -l <listname> -q 
news <filename>.

Et voil?, the missing messages appear on the NNTP server.

If anyone knows of a tool to simplify step 2 (extract a bunch of messages 
from a given mbox file into individual files), I would be glad to hear it.

Thanks again,
Markus



From nuno at fccn.pt  Thu Mar 15 11:32:35 2007
From: nuno at fccn.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nuno_Gon=E7alves?=)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:32:35 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Changing real_name Variable in welcome
	message subject !
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007031417083509532788323c@msapiro>
References: <00e301c76653$927ea300$1f2c88c1@corp.fccn.pt>
	<PC17602007031417083509532788323c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000901c766ed$41125030$1f2c88c1@corp.fccn.pt>

Cool Mark,

I followed your directions and it makes all sense, but it appears on the
subject 2 little squares instead of the acceptable alias that is specified
in the conf file :P
I checked the list.conf in conf Directory and acceptable_aliases is
something like : acceptable_aliases = 'test at test.pt'

The other variable that you pointed (self.getListAddress()) also gives me
the list realname.
Do you have any clue what those 2 little squares instead of the list alias
name is ?
To be more specific the subject appears like: Welcome to the mailing list
"[][]"
(the brackets are squares ;) )

Thanks once again mark on your efforts

Best regards

--
Nuno Gon?alves

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: quinta-feira, 15 de Mar?o de 2007 0:09
To: nuno at fccn.pt; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Changing real_name Variable in
welcomemessage subject !

Nuno Gon?alves wrote:
>
>I am looking a way in order to change the subject of the welcome message.
>In the file in [Mailman home directory/Mailman/Deliverer.py] (line 79) 
>there is a line :
>_('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s')
>
>
>Is there anyway of subtituting the variable realname for one in the 
>acceptable aliases list (the firts one for instance)?
>Is there any variable acceptable_aliases (confs/list.conf) accessable 
>in the Deliverer.py ?


You could do this in several ways. If you really want to do exactly what you
said, you could change

        realname = self.real_name
        msg = Message.UserNotification(
            self.GetMemberAdminEmail(name), self.GetRequestEmail(),
            _('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s'),
            text, pluser)

to

        realname = self.acceptable_aliases[0]
        msg = Message.UserNotification(
            self.GetMemberAdminEmail(name), self.GetRequestEmail(),
            _('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s'),
            text, pluser)

but then you have to guarantee that every list has at least one entry in
acceptable_aliases, because referencing self.acceptable_aliases[0] will
throw an IndexError exception if the acceptable_aliases list is empty.

A more realistic approach would just be to use the normal list posting
address, not an alias. Then the code would be

        realname = self.getListAddress()
        msg = Message.UserNotification(
            self.GetMemberAdminEmail(name), self.GetRequestEmail(),
            _('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s'),
            text, pluser)

Note that both of the above change only the first line - the assignment to
realname.

If you really wanted to get fancy and use an alias iff there was one, you
could do

        if self.acceptable_aliases:
            realname = self.acceptable_aliases[0]
        else:
            realname = self.getListAddress()
        msg = Message.UserNotification(
            self.GetMemberAdminEmail(name), self.GetRequestEmail(),
            _('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s'),
            text, pluser)


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carlp at wetleather.com  Thu Mar 15 12:56:45 2007
From: carlp at wetleather.com (Carl Paukstis)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 04:56:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMail and self
In-Reply-To: <mailman.16760.1173947201.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.16760.1173947201.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <20070315115645.GA20281@moto1.micapeak.com>

Alan McConnell <alan at patriot.net> wrote:
>I wrote a letter to the gmail honchos about this, which I reproduce
>below.  Of course I heard nothing.  But maybe if 5 or 50 or 500 of
>us wrote similar messages, something might happen . . .  ?

Or not.  They's known about it for a while, and several have complained.
There's this thread on the subject in their support forum, in which I
participated:

<http://groups.google.com/group/Gmail-POP-and-Forwarding/browse_thread/thread/74c06b57fa724c1b/51227f15c0ab360e?lnk=gst&q=mailing+lists&rnum=8#51227f15c0ab360e>

AKA <http://tinyurl.com/st2ru>

The last entry suggests another forum to submit a Gmail user request 
for making this "feature" configurable:
https://services.google.com/inquiry/gmail_suggest/

-- 
Carl Paukstis                                   carlp at wetleather.com
WetLeather.com  /  Micapeak.com              listmaster at micapeak.com
Spokane, Washington, USA                     http://www.paukstis.com/

From info at chafahn.com  Thu Mar 15 17:25:23 2007
From: info at chafahn.com (Cha Fahn Restaurant)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:25:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Owner posting is rejected.
Message-ID: <45F97373.1070504@chafahn.com>

Hello,

Sorry this is a stupid question. I have created an "announcement only" 
newsletter by setting everyone is on moderation list and reject their 
postings. I also make sure I am not on the member list (being moderated) 
so that I will be rejected. However, when I send email from my admin 
email, I received this message:

You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has
been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages are
being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at
newsletter-owner at chafahn.com.

What did I do wrong?

Thanks for the help
CW





From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Mar 15 17:58:11 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:58:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Owner posting is rejected.
In-Reply-To: <45F97373.1070504@chafahn.com>
References: <45F97373.1070504@chafahn.com>
Message-ID: <200703151658.l2FGwBvP024608@unreal.eroded.org>

Cha Fahn Restaurant sent the message below at 09:25 3/15/2007:
>Hello,
>
>Sorry this is a stupid question. I have created an "announcement only"
>newsletter by setting everyone is on moderation list and reject their
>postings. I also make sure I am not on the member list (being moderated)
>so that I will be rejected. However, when I send email from my admin
>email, I received this message:
>
>You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has
>been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages are
>being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at
>newsletter-owner at chafahn.com.
>
>What did I do wrong?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

The administrator address is not a member of the list. The default 
action for non-members posting is to reject.

So it is doing what it is supposed to do.

Now there are two ways you can deal with this. You can use the 
approved: header method or you can add the administrator address to 
the accept_these_nonmembers setting under the Privacy options->Sender 
filters page.

Using the approved header is described in FAQ here:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Thu Mar 15 21:08:22 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 15:08:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different Mailman "Home" Pages?
Message-ID: <200703152008.l2FK8MsV013910@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I have some Mailman lists that I want advertised to local users, and
some Mailman lists that I want advertised to anyone on the Internet.
Is there a way of doing this?  Essentially it would require a two
front-end pages with some web (apache) logic as to which IP addresses
see which page.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 16 02:22:04 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:22:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Changing real_name Variable in welcome
	message subject !
In-Reply-To: <000901c766ed$41125030$1f2c88c1@corp.fccn.pt>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703151822040453711e61a9@msapiro>

Nuno Gon?alves wrote:
>
>I followed your directions and it makes all sense, but it appears on the
>subject 2 little squares instead of the acceptable alias that is specified
>in the conf file :P
>I checked the list.conf in conf Directory and acceptable_aliases is
>something like : acceptable_aliases = 'test at test.pt'
>
>The other variable that you pointed (self.getListAddress()) also gives me
>the list realname.


Not exactly. It shoud give 'real_name at host_name' instead of just
'real_name'.

I thought you perhaps wanted a list email address as opposed to just a
name which is why I suggested that.


>Do you have any clue what those 2 little squares instead of the list alias
>name is ?
>To be more specific the subject appears like: Welcome to the mailing list
>"[][]"
>(the brackets are squares ;) )


The squares may represent non-printing characters which may be an issue
if the acceptable_aliases field begins with a blank line.

This is partially my error. I was thinking that acceptable_aliases is a
list, but it is not. It is a string. The construct
acceptable_alaises[0] returns the first character of the string, which
if acceptable_aliases = 'test at test.pt', is simply 't', so I don't know
what the two 'squares' are unless acceptable_aliases begins with a
blank line, in which case they are probably some representation of a
carriage-return character.

So now I have another question. If you don't want people to see the
name of the list in the subject of the welcome message, why don't you
just change the list name - see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.070.htp>.

If you really want to keep the list name as is and put the first entry
from acceptable aliases in the welcome subject, this should do it.

        list_aliases = [alias.strip() for alias in
                       self.acceptable_aliases.split()]
        realname = None
            for realname in list_aliases:
                if realname:
                    break
        if not realname:
            realname = self.real_name
        msg = Message.UserNotification(
            self.GetMemberAdminEmail(name), self.GetRequestEmail(),
            _('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s'),
            text, pluser)

That will use the first non-empty line from acceptable_aliases if any
and the list's real_name if there is no non-empty acceptable_aliases
line.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 16 05:12:48 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 21:12:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different Mailman "Home" Pages?
In-Reply-To: <200703152008.l2FK8MsV013910@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC17602007031521124801567201eb4c@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>I have some Mailman lists that I want advertised to local users, and
>some Mailman lists that I want advertised to anyone on the Internet.
>Is there a way of doing this?  Essentially it would require a two
>front-end pages with some web (apache) logic as to which IP addresses
>see which page.


You do this with two virtual domains in Apache and two virtual hosts in
Mailman. You may or may not need virtual hosting in your MTA depending
on whether or not you want separate email domains.

See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-March/056108.html>
for a bit more detail on the Mailman side of it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 16 06:48:03 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 22:48:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change the URL of Mailman web interface
In-Reply-To: <65ec0b360703141039m949c2f7nd1e42a9609cd632f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007031522480307187201ed51@msapiro>

Wei Yu wrote:
>
>The default url of Mailman is /mailman/. But I want to change it to some
>/q/mailman/.
>Unfortunately, /q/ is mapped by using "ScriptAlias", it means that
>"ScriptAlias /q/mailman/" will be overrided by /q/.
>I tried to make a symbol link to the mailman cgi-bin directory under /q/ but
>mailman failed to work.


This is really a question about your web server, not Mailman, but
assuming Apache, you might be able to do this as follows:

Assume your existing ScriptAlias /q/ is

ScriptAlias /q/  /path/to/q/cgi-bin/

You could change it to

ScriptAliasMatch /q/(?!mailman/)(.*)  /path/to/q/cgi-bin/$1

If Apache recognizes that negative lookahead assertion (and I'm not
sure it does), this will do the same as the original except for
/q/mailman/. Then you can add your "ScriptAlias /q/mailman/" and it
won't be preempted by "ScriptAlias /q/".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zig.wei at gmail.com  Fri Mar 16 06:50:08 2007
From: zig.wei at gmail.com (Wei Yu)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 13:50:08 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change the directory for mailman?
Message-ID: <65ec0b360703152250m3298a7w40e08c3bc02096ea@mail.gmail.com>

The mailman always locate his page at /mailman/. However, I want to
change it to /q/mailman, how to do so?

Regards,
Wei Yu

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 16 07:24:19 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 23:24:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change the directory for mailman?
In-Reply-To: <65ec0b360703152250m3298a7w40e08c3bc02096ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007031523241903907201ec19@msapiro>

Wei Yu wrote:

>The mailman always locate his page at /mailman/. However, I want to
>change it to /q/mailman, how to do so?


See my reply to your earlier post (just posted
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-March/056150.html>).

Note that you will also have to set DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in mm_cfg.py

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/q/mailman/'

and run fix_url on your existing lists - see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us  Fri Mar 16 13:00:46 2007
From: dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us (dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 08:00:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change the directory for mailman?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007031523241903907201ec19@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007031523241903907201ec19@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070316080046.d7a90b8c0so8wowk@webmail.harrisonburg.k12.va.us>

Quoting Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:

> Wei Yu wrote:
>
>> The mailman always locate his page at /mailman/. However, I want to
>> change it to /q/mailman, how to do so?
>
>
> See my reply to your earlier post (just posted
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-March/056150.html>).
>
> Note that you will also have to set DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in mm_cfg.py
>
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/q/mailman/'
>
> and run fix_url on your existing lists - see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:   
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dhottinger%40harrisonburg.k12.va.us
>
> Security Policy:   
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>

Or depending on your os (if it is a nix box) you could just do a  
static link to where mailman wants itself to be.  ;-].  'ln -s  
/mailman /q/mailman'
-- 
Dwayne Hottinger
Network Administrator
Harrisonburg City Public Schools


From Shadow at shadowsnetwork.com  Fri Mar 16 18:15:51 2007
From: Shadow at shadowsnetwork.com (Shadow)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:15:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disappearing List -
Message-ID: <83D7454B0DEBE94E8CCAC763F83BE8E60B5673@sbs-server.portal.shadowsnetwork.com>

have anyone encountered this problem?  One of my mail lists have
disappeared. I think that the list is still there and there is a
configuration problem or the configuration file (if there is one) is
corrupted.  I am still receiving the administrative approval requests
for the lists but when I attempt to enter via the admin interface, I
encounter:

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9.cp2



We're sorry, we hit a bug!


Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 

My ISP tech support seens to think as I do and suggests that I delete
the list and re-create it........but I don't want to do that if it means
destroying what is there now..........and if there is no way around that
then I will re- create the list, but I need to check all options first.
I have not modified anything in the configuration - it just seemed to
happen suddenly - can anyone help or offer suggestions?  I am out of
ideas

Shadow

 


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 16 20:14:52 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:14:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disappearing List -
In-Reply-To: <83D7454B0DEBE94E8CCAC763F83BE8E60B5673@sbs-server.portal.shadowsnetwork.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703161214520421fd3b36d9@msapiro>

Shadow wrote:

>have anyone encountered this problem?  One of my mail lists have
>disappeared. I think that the list is still there and there is a
>configuration problem or the configuration file (if there is one) is
>corrupted.  I am still receiving the administrative approval requests
>for the lists but when I attempt to enter via the admin interface, I
>encounter:
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9.cp2


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.


>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
>but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 
>
>My ISP tech support seens to think as I do and suggests that I delete
>the list and re-create it........but I don't want to do that if it means
>destroying what is there now..........and if there is no way around that
>then I will re- create the list, but I need to check all options first.
>I have not modified anything in the configuration - it just seemed to
>happen suddenly - can anyone help or offer suggestions?  I am out of
>ideas


What is in Mailman's error log. Please post the entire traceback from
the above error.

It has been reported on this list that the location of a cPanel Mailman
installation is /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/. Within tat
directory should be a logs/ dirrectory containing the 'error' log
among others.

Also, there is a lists/<listname>/ directory that contains the list
data. The current configuration is config.pck and the immediately
previous is config.pck.last. It may be sufficient to just copy
config.pck.last to config.pck but before you start doing anything with
those, let's see the traceback from the error.

Also note that in cPanel, the <listname> above is a 'qualified' list
name as in list_example.com.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anil.karadag at gmail.com  Fri Mar 16 20:40:40 2007
From: anil.karadag at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-9?Q?ANIL_KARADA=D0?=)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 21:40:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] python global variable error
Message-ID: <f89a5eb80703161240i2953a00bl2d591ffeb5a1a8cb@mail.gmail.com>

hi, i made a program in python but received global name  error. the program
code;
  serverhost = '127.0.0.1'
    serverport = 2000
    BUFSIZ = 1024
    addr = (serverhost,serverport)
    if str(sys.argv).find("-s") == -1:
    cs = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM,0)             # create a TCP socket
    cs.connect(addr)
    key=1
    main()
    else:
        serversock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)    # create a TCP socket
        serversock.bind(addr)
        serversock.listen(2)
    key=2
    print 'waiting for connection?'
    while 1:
            clientsock, addr = serversock.accept()
        print '?connected from:', addr,clientsock
        main()
    serversock.close()

what is difference cs and clientsock? i use cs in main() function or others,
but  don't use clientsock not call from main() "  data = clientsock.recv(BUFSIZ)
NameError: global name 'clientsock' is not defined "

i am sorry, i  little know english

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 16 20:53:57 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:53:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] python global variable error
In-Reply-To: <f89a5eb80703161240i2953a00bl2d591ffeb5a1a8cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f89a5eb80703161240i2953a00bl2d591ffeb5a1a8cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45FAF5D5.2020303@value.net>

ANIL KARADA
 wrote:
> hi, i made a program in python but received global name  error. the program
> code;
<snip>

Mailman-users at python.org is a Mailman list, not a Python list. I suggest 
you try the python-help at python.org email list or the comp.lang.python 
usenet group.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ricardo at americasnet.com  Fri Mar 16 22:27:47 2007
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:27:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to re-activate large number of members?
Message-ID: <003401c76811$f1a89b00$6d32170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>

Hi,

I have a couple of large lists (> 15,000 members) in which a significant percentage of them have been deactivated. I'm not sure why, I don't think that all of them are really consistently bouncing.

I wanted to reactivate all of them and let mailman take its course once again in processing the bounces.

But it's impossible to do it individually. Is there a way to change this en masse?

Ricardo

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 16 23:50:11 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:50:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to re-activate large number of members?
In-Reply-To: <003401c76811$f1a89b00$6d32170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>
Message-ID: <PC17602007031615501101252cea9728@msapiro>

Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
>
>I wanted to reactivate all of them and let mailman take its course once again in processing the bounces.
>
>But it's impossible to do it individually. Is there a way to change this en masse?


See the reset_bounce.py withlist script at
<http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/> (mirror
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/>).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From nicku at nicku.org  Sat Mar 17 01:48:15 2007
From: nicku at nicku.org (Nick Urbanik)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 11:48:15 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman with fetchmail, ISP smtp, blocked port 80
Message-ID: <20070317004815.GC14307@nicku.org>

Dear Folks,

I have just moved to a new ISP which blocks ports 80, 25 incoming.

I have hosted (and hope to continue to host) two mailing lists, which
worked fine till the change.

I also have access to a web server pointed to by dns A record
nicku.org on which I cannot install mailman, but on which I can
install redirects, use mod_rewrite, and configure apache on.  Postfix
listens on port 25 on www3.nicku.org and can send mail via ISP mail
server.  An MX record for nicku.org points to mail.nicku.org, which in
turn points as an A record to an email hosting service.
www3.nicku.org is the new address of this machine hosting mailman.

I would like to ask:
1. Any suggestions on a good way to configure mailman in this
   situation?  My current method (dns points to this machine,
   www3.nicku.org, apache listening on port 8080, redirect from remote
   nicku.org to www3.nicku.org:8080) seems not right yet; attempts to
   click on the "Submit All Data" button on the admindb page just
   return the same page, without any apparent action having taken place.
2. I am running fetchmail as root, with a .fetchmailrc as shown below.
   Does that look correct?  Any suggestions?
3. the /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure log shows multiple (failed)
   attempts to send mail to fetchmail-daemon at www3.nicku.org; how do I
   persuade mailman to send to the correct address?
4. Are there any special settings I need for mailman to match this
   arrangement better?  Currently the changes to my mm_cfg.py are:
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'www3.nicku.org:8080'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'nicku.org'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

Note that people access the web pages via
http://nicku.org/mailman/listinfo/camwest-discuss and
http://nicku.org/mailman/listinfo/camwest-announce.

set daemon 180
set syslog
set postmaster nicku
set no bouncemail
set no spambounce

poll mail.nicku.org proto pop3
        user user01 pass passwordxxx is nicku here
        user user02 pass passwordxxx is auser here
        user user03 pass passwordxxx is anotheruser here
        user user04 pass passwordxxx is mailman here
        user user05 pass passwordxxx is mailman-admin here
        user user06 pass passwordxxx is camwest-announce here
        user user07 pass passwordxxx is camwest-discuss here
        user user08 pass passwordxxx is camwest-announce-admin here
        user user09 pass passwordxxx is camwest-announce-bounces here
        user user10 pass passwordxxx is camwest-announce-confirm here
        user user11 pass passwordxxx is camwest-announce-join here
        user user12 pass passwordxxx is camwest-announce-leave here
        user user13 pass passwordxxx is camwest-announce-owner here
        user user14 pass passwordxxx is camwest-announce-request here
        user user15 pass passwordxxx is camwest-announce-subscribe here
        user user16 pass passwordxxx is camwest-announce-unsubscribe here
        user user17 pass passwordxxx is camwest-discuss-admin here
        user user18 pass passwordxxx is camwest-discuss-bounces here
        user user19 pass passwordxxx is camwest-discuss-confirm here
        user user20 pass passwordxxx is camwest-discuss-join here
        user user21 pass passwordxxx is camwest-discuss-leave here
        user user22 pass passwordxxx is camwest-discuss-owner here
        user user23 pass passwordxxx is camwest-discuss-request here
        user user24 pass passwordxxx is camwest-discuss-subscribe here
        user user25 pass passwordxxx is camwest-discuss-unsubscribe here

where userxx is the username configured on the email hosting service,
to which dns A record mail.nicku.org points.

I will be grateful for any suggestions.
-- 
Nick Urbanik                http://nicku.org        nicku at nicku.org
GPG: 7FFA CDC7 5A77 0558 DC7A 790A 16DF EC5B BB9D 2C24 ID: BB9D2C24
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From johann at macdonaghs.com  Sat Mar 17 01:42:12 2007
From: johann at macdonaghs.com (Johann MacDonagh)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:42:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman possible overloading Postfix
Message-ID: <45FB3964.7020101@macdonaghs.com>

I'm setting up my Mailing list on a VPS (virtual private server) I have. 
It's set to have about 128MB of RAM. I'm running a simple Fedora Core 5 
server. I've got Postfix / QRunner / Apache 2 running on it.

I imported a mailing list that has about 80 subscribers. I attempted to 
post a message to all of them and this is what I got in my mail log.

Mar 16 19:23:05 myhost postfix/master[23796]: warning: process 
/usr/libexec/postfix/bounce pid 3190 exit status 127
Mar 16 19:23:05 myhost postfix/master[23796]: warning: 
/usr/libexec/postfix/bounce: bad command startup -- throttling

I used to get a lot of these throttling messages (especially when I held 
3 or 4 messages in the mailman moderation queue and accepted them all at 
once. Since then I've attempted to slow down the speed at which it 
sends. Here's my postfix main.cf:

smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name

myhostname = mail.mydomain.org
mydestination = mail.mydomain.org, localhost, localhost.localdomain

mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8
mailbox_size_limit = 0
recipient_delimiter = +
inet_interfaces = all


relay_domains = lists.mydomain.org

canonical_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/canonical

transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport

smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, 
permit_sasl_authenticated, reject_unauth_destination, 
reject_unauth_pipelining
smtpd_data_restrictions = reject_unauth_pipelining

default_process_limit = 20

mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1



And the important parts of my mm_cfg:

DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'lists.mydomain.org'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.mydomain.org'

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/'
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/mailman/private'
IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/icons/'

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/archive/%(listname)s/'

MTA = None

SMTP_MAX_RCPT = 20

# Because we've overriden the virtual hosts above add_virtualhost
# MUST be called after they have been defined.

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)


This seemed to fix it somewhat. I only got one error (the one I posted 
above) when sending one message.

Here's the final strange thing. After a message gets delivered to all 
subscribers, the mailman site will be unavailable. Sometimes it says:

"Oops, we've hit a bug in Mailman <undetermined version>".

and sometimes it says something along the lines of:

"Oops, we've hit a bug. .... The issue was very low level and a trace 
probably wouldn't help you."

None of the mailman logs show anything regarding this. It seems like the 
server doesn't have enough resources to display the mailman page (and 
perhaps even fails to update the log because of a lack of resources).

Does anyone have any experience running Mailman on a low end server? I 
can double the specs on this VPS for an extra $10 a month. I'll probably 
test that out and see how well it works.

Thanks,

Johann MacDonagh

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 17 02:24:49 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:24:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman with fetchmail, ISP smtp,
	blocked port 80
In-Reply-To: <20070317004815.GC14307@nicku.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007031618244902960fffa959@msapiro>

Nick Urbanik wrote:
>
>I have just moved to a new ISP which blocks ports 80, 25 incoming.
>
>I have hosted (and hope to continue to host) two mailing lists, which
>worked fine till the change.
>
>I also have access to a web server pointed to by dns A record
>nicku.org on which I cannot install mailman, but on which I can
>install redirects, use mod_rewrite, and configure apache on.  Postfix
>listens on port 25 on www3.nicku.org and can send mail via ISP mail
>server.  An MX record for nicku.org points to mail.nicku.org, which in
>turn points as an A record to an email hosting service.
>www3.nicku.org is the new address of this machine hosting mailman.


My head hurts already.


>I would like to ask:
>1. Any suggestions on a good way to configure mailman in this
>   situation?  My current method (dns points to this machine,
>   www3.nicku.org, apache listening on port 8080, redirect from remote
>   nicku.org to www3.nicku.org:8080) seems not right yet; attempts to
>   click on the "Submit All Data" button on the admindb page just
>   return the same page, without any apparent action having taken place.


Redirect is probably throwing away the POST data. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.


>2. I am running fetchmail as root, with a .fetchmailrc as shown below.
>   Does that look correct?  Any suggestions?


I don't know fetchmail.


>3. the /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure log shows multiple (failed)
>   attempts to send mail to fetchmail-daemon at www3.nicku.org; how do I
>   persuade mailman to send to the correct address?


SMTPHOST =
(and
SMTPPORT =
if it's not 25) in mm_cfg.py


>4. Are there any special settings I need for mailman to match this
>   arrangement better?  Currently the changes to my mm_cfg.py are:
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'www3.nicku.org:8080'
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'nicku.org'
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)


This is not what you want. You want 

DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'www3.nicku.org'

and

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:8080/mailman/'

Then you want to run fix_url to update the list attributes. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

This will get the POST URL's on web forms going directly to the proper
server and you won't lose data in the redirects. It will also put
'www3.nicku.org:8080' in visible URLs. If this is a problem because

>Note that people access the web pages via
>http://nicku.org/mailman/listinfo/camwest-discuss and
>http://nicku.org/mailman/listinfo/camwest-announce.


I don't know a solution, but I'm guessing it's OK because
'www3.nicku.org:8080' already appears in the browser's address bar
after redirect.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar 17 03:46:14 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 21:46:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman possible overloading Postfix
In-Reply-To: <45FB3964.7020101@macdonaghs.com>
References: <45FB3964.7020101@macdonaghs.com>
Message-ID: <p06240503c221055a3a5c@[10.0.1.201]>

At 5:42 PM -0700 3/16/07, Johann MacDonagh wrote:

>  Mar 16 19:23:05 myhost postfix/master[23796]: warning: process
>  /usr/libexec/postfix/bounce pid 3190 exit status 127
>  Mar 16 19:23:05 myhost postfix/master[23796]: warning:
>  /usr/libexec/postfix/bounce: bad command startup -- throttling

This is a different problem.  Try searching the archives of the 
postfix-users mailing list.  This kind of problem goes back at least 
as far as 2002, and probably earlier.  Two more recent threads I 
found that might be relevant to your case are at 
<http://www.security-express.com/archives/postfix/2005-07/0055.html> 
and 
<http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/postfix/2006-05/1600.html>.

Or just Google for "postfix bad command startup", and follow the links.

>  Here's the final strange thing. After a message gets delivered to all
>  subscribers, the mailman site will be unavailable. Sometimes it says:
>
>  "Oops, we've hit a bug in Mailman <undetermined version>".
>
>  and sometimes it says something along the lines of:
>
>  "Oops, we've hit a bug. .... The issue was very low level and a trace
>  probably wouldn't help you."

I think that this is unrelated to the postfix problem above.

>  None of the mailman logs show anything regarding this. It seems like the
>  server doesn't have enough resources to display the mailman page (and
>  perhaps even fails to update the log because of a lack of resources).
>
>  Does anyone have any experience running Mailman on a low end server? I
>  can double the specs on this VPS for an extra $10 a month. I'll probably
>  test that out and see how well it works.

Search the Mailm FAQ Wizard for "performance".  But pay special 
attention to FAQ 1.24.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From johann at macdonaghs.com  Sat Mar 17 07:55:18 2007
From: johann at macdonaghs.com (Johann MacDonagh)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:55:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman possible overloading Postfix
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c221055a3a5c@[10.0.1.201]>
References: <45FB3964.7020101@macdonaghs.com>
	<p06240503c221055a3a5c@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <45FB90D6.8050304@macdonaghs.com>

Well it just seems kind of strange. I upgraded the stats on the VPS and 
haven't had any of those issues since. I Googled my error when I first 
got it and found a couple of the sites you mentioned. For them, it 
seems, the error is constant and blocks Postfix from working. In my 
case, Postfix works fine (it appears the mail goes out), but sometimes 
it causes issues like I mention in my next paragraph.

Just some more information, when Postfix was busy sending all of it's 
mail, I sometimes wouldn't be able to use such programs like tail or vi, 
because a shared library could not be opened (usually libc). That's what 
led me to believe Postfix or Mailman was attempting to use more 
resources than it should.

Johann

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 5:42 PM -0700 3/16/07, Johann MacDonagh wrote:
>
>>  Mar 16 19:23:05 myhost postfix/master[23796]: warning: process
>>  /usr/libexec/postfix/bounce pid 3190 exit status 127
>>  Mar 16 19:23:05 myhost postfix/master[23796]: warning:
>>  /usr/libexec/postfix/bounce: bad command startup -- throttling
>
> This is a different problem.  Try searching the archives of the 
> postfix-users mailing list.  This kind of problem goes back at least 
> as far as 2002, and probably earlier.  Two more recent threads I found 
> that might be relevant to your case are at 
> <http://www.security-express.com/archives/postfix/2005-07/0055.html> 
> and <http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/postfix/2006-05/1600.html>.
>
> Or just Google for "postfix bad command startup", and follow the links.
>
>>  Here's the final strange thing. After a message gets delivered to all
>>  subscribers, the mailman site will be unavailable. Sometimes it says:
>>
>>  "Oops, we've hit a bug in Mailman <undetermined version>".
>>
>>  and sometimes it says something along the lines of:
>>
>>  "Oops, we've hit a bug. .... The issue was very low level and a trace
>>  probably wouldn't help you."
>
> I think that this is unrelated to the postfix problem above.
>
>>  None of the mailman logs show anything regarding this. It seems like 
>> the
>>  server doesn't have enough resources to display the mailman page (and
>>  perhaps even fails to update the log because of a lack of resources).
>>
>>  Does anyone have any experience running Mailman on a low end server? I
>>  can double the specs on this VPS for an extra $10 a month. I'll 
>> probably
>>  test that out and see how well it works.
>
> Search the Mailm FAQ Wizard for "performance".  But pay special 
> attention to FAQ 1.24.
>


From johann at macdonaghs.com  Sat Mar 17 07:56:08 2007
From: johann at macdonaghs.com (Johann MacDonagh)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:56:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman possible overloading Postfix
In-Reply-To: <20070317023100.GA9696@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <45FB3964.7020101@macdonaghs.com>
	<20070317023100.GA9696@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <45FB9108.3020409@macdonaghs.com>

Did you have to make any special configuration changes?

Johann MacDonagh

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> Quoting Johann MacDonagh (johann at macdonaghs.com):
>   
>> Does anyone have any experience running Mailman on a low end server? I 
>> can double the specs on this VPS for an extra $10 a month. I'll probably 
>> test that out and see how well it works.
>>     
>
> I ran my mailman lists (with Postfix and Apache2 on Debian Sarge) on a
> Linode 128 VPS for a few years with no problems.  I had about 15 lists,
> the biggest with about 150 members, and transmitted about 500 messages a
> day.  I never got throttled and never had problems with dozens of
> simultaneous deliveries.
>
>   



From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar 17 08:30:01 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 02:30:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman possible overloading Postfix
In-Reply-To: <45FB90D6.8050304@macdonaghs.com>
References: <45FB3964.7020101@macdonaghs.com>
	<p06240503c221055a3a5c@[10.0.1.201]> <45FB90D6.8050304@macdonaghs.com>
Message-ID: <p06240508c22149251dcd@[10.0.1.201]>

At 11:55 PM -0700 3/16/07, Johann MacDonagh wrote:

>  Just some more information, when Postfix was busy sending all of it's mail,
>  I sometimes wouldn't be able to use such programs like tail or vi, because
>  a shared library could not be opened (usually libc). That's what led me to
>  believe Postfix or Mailman was attempting to use more resources than it
>  should.

That sounds to me like they're having some sort of internal problem 
on their VPS system, and not a mail or postfix problem per se.  If 
they can't support running multiple programs with shared libraries 
open simultaneously, that says volumes about the crappy quality of 
service they provide.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From johann at macdonaghs.com  Sat Mar 17 08:43:00 2007
From: johann at macdonaghs.com (Johann MacDonagh)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:43:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman possible overloading Postfix
In-Reply-To: <p06240508c22149251dcd@[10.0.1.201]>
References: <45FB3964.7020101@macdonaghs.com>
	<p06240503c221055a3a5c@[10.0.1.201]> <45FB90D6.8050304@macdonaghs.com>
	<p06240508c22149251dcd@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <45FB9C04.1060903@macdonaghs.com>

Well, AFAIK, Virtuozzo (the VPS system they have) should keep it 
completely separate. My libc shared library should be completely 
separate from other's. I read Section 6 of the FAQ you pointed me to, 
and they offered some suggestions. The FAQ said to actually increase the 
values of several options. I'm going to set up a test list with random 
users at known domains and see what happens.

Thanks for your help. I'll keep this list updated. (I'm sure everyone is 
on the edge of their seat).

Johann

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 11:55 PM -0700 3/16/07, Johann MacDonagh wrote:
>
>>  Just some more information, when Postfix was busy sending all of 
>> it's mail,
>>  I sometimes wouldn't be able to use such programs like tail or vi, 
>> because
>>  a shared library could not be opened (usually libc). That's what led 
>> me to
>>  believe Postfix or Mailman was attempting to use more resources than it
>>  should.
>
> That sounds to me like they're having some sort of internal problem on 
> their VPS system, and not a mail or postfix problem per se.  If they 
> can't support running multiple programs with shared libraries open 
> simultaneously, that says volumes about the crappy quality of service 
> they provide.
>


From david at johmar.com  Sat Mar 17 11:10:20 2007
From: david at johmar.com (David Beaumont)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 10:10:20 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newsgroup interface - upload to mailman not working
Message-ID: <004d01c7687c$785fb4c0$2d6a8656@computername>

We interface to a newsgroup, details:

"The hostname of the machine your news server is running on. 
news.annexcafe.com
 
The name of the Usenet group to gateway to and/or from. 
annexcafe.dba.bargemain"

Emails are transferred to the newsgroup OK.  Until September last year
newsgroup postings were picked up by mailman and distributed as emails.
However since then that bit has stopped working, any ideas why?  Our
supplier says the newsrunner process is running.  

Thanks

David


From eugen at leitl.org  Sat Mar 17 11:48:55 2007
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 11:48:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman possible overloading Postfix
In-Reply-To: <45FB3964.7020101@macdonaghs.com>
References: <45FB3964.7020101@macdonaghs.com>
Message-ID: <20070317104855.GY31912@leitl.org>

On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 05:42:12PM -0700, Johann MacDonagh wrote:
> I'm setting up my Mailing list on a VPS (virtual private server) I have. 
> It's set to have about 128MB of RAM. I'm running a simple Fedora Core 5 
> server. I've got Postfix / QRunner / Apache 2 running on it.

It seems your vserver provider sold you a pretty braindamaged product.
I run most of my things on the Linux vserver, which is effectively
invisible.

In case you're stuck with that provider, you might try installing lighttpd
instead of Apache, which has a lower memory footprint.
 
> I imported a mailing list that has about 80 subscribers. I attempted to 
> post a message to all of them and this is what I got in my mail log.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience running Mailman on a low end server? I 
> can double the specs on this VPS for an extra $10 a month. I'll probably 
> test that out and see how well it works.

It seems that I'm charging too little. I thought 5 EUR/month for
a Linux VServer was a reasonable deal. You can get a dedicated
hardware server for some 30 EUR/month, so perhaps I would switch
providers. 

-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820            http://www.ativel.com
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
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From ptomblin at xcski.com  Sat Mar 17 14:13:49 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 09:13:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman possible overloading Postfix
In-Reply-To: <45FB9108.3020409@macdonaghs.com>
References: <45FB3964.7020101@macdonaghs.com>
	<20070317023100.GA9696@allhats.xcski.com>
	<45FB9108.3020409@macdonaghs.com>
Message-ID: <20070317131349.GD10780@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Johann MacDonagh (johann at macdonaghs.com):
> Did you have to make any special configuration changes?

No, but I did use Debian rather than Fedora because it's a leaner more
stripped down basic distribution for servers.  In my experience, even if
you tell the Fedora installer you want a server installation, it installs
hundreds of programs you never use and many memory hog daemons.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
 "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we
are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and
servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Teddy Roosevelt

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 17 15:22:26 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 07:22:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newsgroup interface - upload to mailman not
	working
In-Reply-To: <004d01c7687c$785fb4c0$2d6a8656@computername>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703170722260468d7c7f32e@msapiro>

David Beaumont wrote:
>
>Emails are transferred to the newsgroup OK.  Until September last year
>newsgroup postings were picked up by mailman and distributed as emails.
>However since then that bit has stopped working, any ideas why?  Our
>supplier says the newsrunner process is running.  


NewsRunner processes the 'news' queue and is responsible for delivery
from Mailman to the news group.

There is a cron called gate_news which is normally configured to run
every 5 minutes which gets the newsgroup postings and posts them to
Mailman. It seems that is not running.

Do other cron jobs run, e.g. the daily reminder of moderator requests
waiting, periodic digests, monthly password reminders, reminding and
ultimately deleting bouncing members?

If the other jobs are running, perhaps Mailman's crontab was edited and
the gate_news job removed. If the other jobs are not running, perhaps
Mailman's crontab was deleted or crond is not running.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at johmar.com  Mon Mar 19 02:09:06 2007
From: david at johmar.com (David Beaumont)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 01:09:06 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newsgroup interface - prevention of spam transfer
	from newsgroup to emails list
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703170722260468d7c7f32e@msapiro>
References: <004d01c7687c$785fb4c0$2d6a8656@computername>
	<PC1760200703170722260468d7c7f32e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000001c769c3$31b31e70$f6ea8556@computername>

Very occasionally spam has been sent to the newsgroup which our mailman list
interfaces with.  The spam has then been uploaded to the email list and sent
out.  This can only get worse. We never get spam on our mailing list
normally because you have to be a member to email to it. Of course there is
no such restriction on the newsgroup.   Is there a simple way to restrict
postings picked up from the newsgroup to be from members of the email list
only?

Thanks



From jt at mailme12.com  Mon Mar 19 16:00:15 2007
From: jt at mailme12.com (JT)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:00:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using "subscribe" in email subject to subscribe
	users?
Message-ID: <45FEA57F.4000705@mailme12.com>

How do I configure mailman to accept "subscribe" email?

Is there a way to configure my Mailman version 2.1.9.cp2 (or is it already configured) so that I can have subscribers email my list with "subscribe" in the subject or body?

Thanks!
-traynor

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 19 17:35:18 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:35:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newsgroup interface - prevention of spam
	transferfrom newsgroup to emails list
In-Reply-To: <000001c769c3$31b31e70$f6ea8556@computername>
Message-ID: <PC17602007031909351806093e387b33@msapiro>

David Beaumont wrote:

>Very occasionally spam has been sent to the newsgroup which our mailman list
>interfaces with.  The spam has then been uploaded to the email list and sent
>out.  This can only get worse. We never get spam on our mailing list
>normally because you have to be a member to email to it. Of course there is
>no such restriction on the newsgroup.   Is there a simple way to restrict
>postings picked up from the newsgroup to be from members of the email list
>only?


See the thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-March/055915.html>
for some info on this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From golharam at umdnj.edu  Mon Mar 19 20:05:57 2007
From: golharam at umdnj.edu (Ryan Golhar)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:05:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which settings controls mailman email address
	disiplayed?
Message-ID: <003201c76a59$a076c3c0$2d01a8c0@PICO>

Forgive me...I'm new to mailman and am having some trouble.  I know the
settings are in mm_cfg.py or data/sitelist.cfg but I can't seem to find
where.
 
I've set up mailman on a RedHat linux server, and created a mailing list.
My first problem is on the mainpage (http://xxx.xyz.edu/mailman/listinfo) it
says:
 
If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact
mailman at xxx.xyz.edu.
 
How do I change it from mailman at xxx.xyz.edu to something else?  Where is
that setting stored?
 
Ryan
 

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 19 20:01:53 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:01:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which settings controls mailman email
	addressdisiplayed?
In-Reply-To: <003201c76a59$a076c3c0$2d01a8c0@PICO>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703191201530593c46a1626@msapiro>

Ryan Golhar wrote:

>Forgive me...I'm new to mailman and am having some trouble.  I know the
>settings are in mm_cfg.py or data/sitelist.cfg but I can't seem to find
>where.


Actually, data/sitelist.cfg does not control anything. It is a
suggested configuration for the site list (usually named mailman) as
the default settings often aren't appropriate for this list. It is
used as input to config_list as in

  bin/config_list -i data/sitelist.cfg mailman


>I've set up mailman on a RedHat linux server, and created a mailing list.
>My first problem is on the mainpage (http://xxx.xyz.edu/mailman/listinfo) it
>says:
> 
>If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact
>mailman at xxx.xyz.edu.
> 
>How do I change it from mailman at xxx.xyz.edu to something else?  Where is
>that setting stored?


This is the address of the site list. The message is built on the fly
by the Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py script. There is no way to change it
short of modifying this code.

What you do is configure the site list so that mail to that address
goes where you want or produces an autoresponse with appropriate
information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From golharam at umdnj.edu  Mon Mar 19 22:32:30 2007
From: golharam at umdnj.edu (Ryan Golhar)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:32:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which settings controls mailman email
 addressdisiplayed?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703191201530593c46a1626@msapiro>
Message-ID: <00ab01c76a6e$1c4eedb0$2d01a8c0@PICO>


> >I've set up mailman on a RedHat linux server, and created a mailing 
> >list. My first problem is on the mainpage 
> >(http://xxx.xyz.edu/mailman/listinfo) it
> >says:
> > 
> >If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact 
> >mailman at xxx.xyz.edu.
> > 
> >How do I change it from mailman at xxx.xyz.edu to something 
> else?  Where 
> >is that setting stored?
> 
> 
> This is the address of the site list. The message is built on 
> the fly by the Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py script. There is no 
> way to change it short of modifying this code.
> 
> What you do is configure the site list so that mail to that 
> address goes where you want or produces an autoresponse with 
> appropriate information.
> 

The problem I have with is that the address being displayed is non-existent
on the mail server.  The mailman system is installed on a web server thatis
separate from the mail server.  I want the contact to be the list owner of
the initial "mailman" mailing list ( step 9 from the installation
instructions).  

If modifying listinfo.py is the correct way to fix this, then that's what'll
do to fix it.

Ryan



From david at johmar.com  Mon Mar 19 23:05:04 2007
From: david at johmar.com (David Beaumont)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:05:04 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and forums
References: <000001c769c3$31b31e70$f6ea8556@computername>
	<PC17602007031909351806093e387b33@msapiro> 
Message-ID: <002401c76a72$a649f830$f6ea8556@computername>

Is there any software that provides or allows mailman to integrate with
forum software (by that I mean a web based method to view all posts by
thread etc..) And I don't mean the basic mailman archive which is pretty
basic.  Something more like 'Yahoo groups'.

Thanks

David


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Mar 19 23:25:55 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:25:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and forums
In-Reply-To: <002401c76a72$a649f830$f6ea8556@computername>
References: <000001c769c3$31b31e70$f6ea8556@computername>
	<PC17602007031909351806093e387b33@msapiro>
	<002401c76a72$a649f830$f6ea8556@computername>
Message-ID: <200703192226.l2JMPtcX010538@unreal.eroded.org>

David Beaumont wrote:
>Is there any software that provides or allows mailman to integrate with
>forum software (by that I mean a web based method to view all posts by
>thread etc..) And I don't mean the basic mailman archive which is pretty
>basic.  Something more like 'Yahoo groups'.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

That is a commonly asked question around here, it comes up every 
month or so. It probably ought to be in the FAQ...

A quick perusal of the FAQ index at 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=index shows that it is:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.026.htp



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From rick at niof.net  Mon Mar 19 22:56:07 2007
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:56:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Display error for 'members' page
Message-ID: <20070319215607.GD5057@niof.net>

I'm running 2.1.9 under debian etch.

I tried to clone a member from the command line (something I've done
many times previously) but it failed with a NotAMemberError error. The
traceback indicated that the *new* address was the problem. Well, of
course the new address was not (yet) a member!

Anyway, now when I try to use the web interface the 'members' page won't
display. I get a 'Bug in Mailman' error.

I have other lists on this machine (different domains) and they still
work fine.

How do I fix the problem?

-- 
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
		-- Eleanor Roosevelt
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 19 23:41:31 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:41:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Display error for 'members' page
In-Reply-To: <20070319215607.GD5057@niof.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007031915413106565c2ec90f@msapiro>

Rick Pasotto wrote:
>
>I tried to clone a member from the command line (something I've done
>many times previously) but it failed with a NotAMemberError error. The
>traceback indicated that the *new* address was the problem. Well, of
>course the new address was not (yet) a member!
>
>Anyway, now when I try to use the web interface the 'members' page won't
>display. I get a 'Bug in Mailman' error.


And what is the traceback from this error in Mailman's error log.


>I have other lists on this machine (different domains) and they still
>work fine.
>
>How do I fix the problem?


<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp>
may help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From srb at umich.edu  Tue Mar 20 00:13:52 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:13:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server migration question
Message-ID: <FFA504D95D391D921414279E@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>

So, we pretty much successfully moved our mailman installation from the old 
Solaris box to the new Red Hat box.

Only one small problem.  Of course.

We (and by we, I mean me) had failed to reduce the TTL for the MX record 
that points to our mail server, which is now on a new machine.  So some 
mailman mail is still being delivered to the old machine.  I've stopped the 
qrunners on that machine, so things are just piling up in the qfiles/in 
directory.

>From my examination of the files there, 99% of what's coming in is SPAM, so 
I don't care about delivering it.  But for the remaining 1%, I'd like to 
eventually deliver that mail, via the new mailman installation, so that it 
ends up archived in the correct place.

Is there any reasonably-straightforward way that I can take the *.db and 
*.msg files that I care about and move them to the new installation?  Or is 
what I really want to do to use bin/inject, passing it the individual .msg 
file?

Thanks in advance for any hints...

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Tue Mar 20 02:02:53 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:02:53 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server migration question
In-Reply-To: <FFA504D95D391D921414279E@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <200703200102.l2K12rWW003655@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Steve Burling has said:
> 
> So, we pretty much successfully moved our mailman installation from the old 
> Solaris box to the new Red Hat box.
> 
> Only one small problem.  Of course.
> 
> We (and by we, I mean me) had failed to reduce the TTL for the MX record 
> that points to our mail server, which is now on a new machine.  So some 
> mailman mail is still being delivered to the old machine.  I've stopped the 
> qrunners on that machine, so things are just piling up in the qfiles/in 
> directory.
> 
This is something to handle in your MTA.  I assume, since you specify
Solaris as the old machine, that you were running Sendmail on it.  

Remove the aliases that pipe to the mail list, and set up something
like mailtertable to ship them to the new host.  

Hank

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 20 02:03:50 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:03:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which settings controls mailman email
	addressdisiplayed?
In-Reply-To: <00ab01c76a6e$1c4eedb0$2d01a8c0@PICO>
References: <00ab01c76a6e$1c4eedb0$2d01a8c0@PICO>
Message-ID: <45FF32F6.1080103@value.net>

Ryan Golhar wrote:
> 
> The problem I have with is that the address being displayed is non-existent
> on the mail server.  The mailman system is installed on a web server thatis
> separate from the mail server.  I want the contact to be the list owner of
> the initial "mailman" mailing list ( step 9 from the installation
> instructions).  
> 
> If modifying listinfo.py is the correct way to fix this, then that's what'll
> do to fix it.


It seems from your description that your mailman installation is not 
correct.

The domain of the mailman list's email address on the listinfo overview 
page is the 'email host' that is associated with the 'url host' that is 
the host name of the URL used to access the page in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS 
dictionary which is built with add_virtualhost('url host', 'email host') 
directives.

If you have only one web host and one email host, these should be 
assigned to DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in mm_cfg.py, and 
these assignments should be followed by

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

Then when you go to http://urlhost/mailman/listinfo/, the mailman list 
address you see will be mailman at emailhost. Then as long as that list's 
owner is its only member, you get what you want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 20 02:19:00 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:19:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server migration question
In-Reply-To: <200703200102.l2K12rWW003655@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020070319181900060930ce1461@msapiro>

vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

>The esteemed Steve Burling has said:
>> 
>> So, we pretty much successfully moved our mailman installation from the old 
>> Solaris box to the new Red Hat box.
>> 
>> Only one small problem.  Of course.
>> 
>> We (and by we, I mean me) had failed to reduce the TTL for the MX record 
>> that points to our mail server, which is now on a new machine.  So some 
>> mailman mail is still being delivered to the old machine.  I've stopped the 
>> qrunners on that machine, so things are just piling up in the qfiles/in 
>> directory.
>> 
>This is something to handle in your MTA.  I assume, since you specify
>Solaris as the old machine, that you were running Sendmail on it.  
>
>Remove the aliases that pipe to the mail list, and set up something
>like mailtertable to ship them to the new host.  


That will do for the messages that arrive subsequent to making that
change. There is still the problem of the already queued messages.

Presumably the new installation is a 2.1.x installation, not 2.0.x, so
you can't just move the queue entries because they're not compatible
(in 2.1 there is a single .pck file per msg as opposed to the 2.0 .db
and .msg files). IIRC, the incoming message is plain text in the .msg
file, so using bin/inject on the new system to inject these into the
'in' queue for the list, although tedious, may be easier than anything
else. (with luck, the list is an addressee so you can get that from
the .msg without having to get it from the metadata in the associated
.db).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From srb at umich.edu  Tue Mar 20 02:31:34 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:31:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server migration question
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070319181900060930ce1461@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070319181900060930ce1461@msapiro>
Message-ID: <ED5A2FF98A13E4F6C6A6D38C@srb.local>

--On March 19, 2007 6:19:00 PM -0700 Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Presumably the new installation is a 2.1.x installation, not 2.0.x, so
> you can't just move the queue entries because they're not compatible
> (in 2.1 there is a single .pck file per msg as opposed to the 2.0 .db
> and .msg files). IIRC, the incoming message is plain text in the .msg
> file, so using bin/inject on the new system to inject these into the
> 'in' queue for the list, although tedious, may be easier than anything
> else. (with luck, the list is an addressee so you can get that from
> the .msg without having to get it from the metadata in the associated
> .db).

To which I reply:

It's interesting -- the old installation was a 2.1.4 install, so I don't 
know there are both a .db and a .msg file for each message.

At any rate, when I looked just now, there were 150 pairs of .db and .msg 
files, and all but one had been flagged as SPAM, so I used bin/inject with 
the one .msg file, and sh*t-canned the rest of the files.

Thanks for the confirmation that that was what I needed to do.

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Tue Mar 20 04:35:06 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 23:35:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to move lists/subscribers to new machine?
Message-ID: <200703192335.06751.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

I have an old installation (2.1.5) that I want to move to a new machine 
(running 2.1.8).  I was wondering how to go about moving the lists and 
subscribers over.  After that I will worry about the archives.

The first machine is running Mandrake Linux and the new machine is running 
OpenBSD 4.0.

Thanks to any responders,

Pedro

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 20 06:01:08 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:01:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to move lists/subscribers to new machine?
In-Reply-To: <200703192335.06751.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <PC17602007031922010805932f3a2219@msapiro>

Peter wrote:

>I have an old installation (2.1.5) that I want to move to a new machine 
>(running 2.1.8).  I was wondering how to go about moving the lists and 
>subscribers over.  After that I will worry about the archives.
>
>The first machine is running Mandrake Linux and the new machine is running 
>OpenBSD 4.0.


If you don't use a custom member adaptor, it is sufficient for list
settings and membership to move the lists/listname/config.pck file.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>
for more complete information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Tue Mar 20 08:41:40 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:41:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic postfix/mailman setup issue
Message-ID: <200703200341.40770.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

I am testing a basic installation of mailman 2.1.8 on OpenBSD 4.0.

When I try to reply to the confirmation request I get an error from postfix 
saying that <list>-request at domain.com is not in the recipient table:

Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table

I thought the mailman aliases handles this?  I have the following in main.cf:

alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases

/etc/mail/aliases contains:

mailman:              "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:        "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:      "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:      "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:         "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:        "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:        "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:      "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe 
mailman"

What else do I need to do?

TIA,

Pedro

From dennis at e-aa.org  Tue Mar 20 13:59:41 2007
From: dennis at e-aa.org (Dennis Morgan)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 07:59:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, AOL and server names
Message-ID: <45FFDABD.6030306@e-aa.org>

Hi everyone!

First time posting, I've been reading with interest - very friendly 
helpful mailing list here! Hope I can help some in the future.

We have about a dozen mailing lists running on majordomo, and are 
getting ready to migrate to mailman. We're excited!

A persistent problem we've had is a significant amount of our users are 
AOL - and many are clueless. We're pretty ruthless about deleting AOL 
users when we get a report that someone is using their spam button - but 
even so a lot (most) of our mail to AOL gets rejected. We've decided 
that part of the problem is we're using an older version of majordomo.

I *think* another part of our problem can be found in this bit of our 
dns report from dnsstuff.com:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK: All of your mailservers have their host name in the greeting:

mail.e-aa.org:
    220 dedicated.bixbycreek.com ESMTP Sendmail 8.12.10/8.12.10; Tue, 20 
Mar 2007 05:44:34 -0800
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In other words our mailing domain name is different than our mail server 
domain name.

As part of our migration we are moving from a shared server to our own 
dedicated server. The new server is
eaachat.org and the same section of the dns report for the new domain on 
the new server reads:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WARNING: One or more of your mailservers is claiming to be a host other 
than what it really is (the SMTP greeting should be a 3-digit code, 
followed by a space or a dash, then the host name). If your mailserver 
sends out E-mail using this domain in its EHLO or HELO, your E-mail 
might get blocked by anti-spam software. This is also a technical 
violation of RFC821 4.3 (and RFC2821 4.3.1). Note that the hostname 
given in the SMTP greeting should have an A record pointing back to the 
same server. Note that this one test may use a cached DNS record.

 mail.eaachat.org claims to be non-existent host dedicated.eaachat.org:
 220 dedicated.eaachat.org ESMTP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm assuming that both of the above problems are part of our AOL 
problems. Am I correct? And if so - does anyone have a tip or two about 
what to do to resolve it?

We're creating an SPF record to see if that helps - we really want at 
least some of our mail to get through to AOL. We plan to make the switch 
next week.

Thank you,

dennis
e-aa.org List keeper


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 20 16:17:15 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 08:17:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic postfix/mailman setup issue
In-Reply-To: <200703200341.40770.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703200817150078e506173d@msapiro>

Peter wrote:

>I am testing a basic installation of mailman 2.1.8 on OpenBSD 4.0.
>
>When I try to reply to the confirmation request I get an error from postfix 
>saying that <list>-request at domain.com is not in the recipient table:
>
>Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table
>
>I thought the mailman aliases handles this?  I have the following in main.cf:
>
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases
>
>/etc/mail/aliases contains:
>
>mailman:              "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>mailman-admin:        "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>mailman-bounces:      "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
>mailman-confirm:      "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
>mailman-join:         "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
>mailman-leave:        "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
>mailman-owner:        "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
>mailman-request:      "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
>mailman-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
>mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe 
>mailman"
>
>What else do I need to do?


Those aliases are only for the one 'mailman' site list. You need a set
for each list with it's own list name. E.g.,

<list>:      "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post <list>"

and so on - a full set of 10 for each list.


With Postfix you can do this 'automatically' from Mailman. You set

MTA = 'Postfix'

in mm_cfg.py, and you add

hash:usr/local/lib/mailman/data/aliases

(or whatever the correct path is) to alias_maps in your Postfix
main.cf. See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html> for
more complete information.

All of mailman's aliases will then be automatically maintained in
usr/local/lib/mailman/data/aliases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Marco.vanKammen at springer.com  Tue Mar 20 16:22:27 2007
From: Marco.vanKammen at springer.com (Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:22:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mm-handler user unknown problem
Message-ID: <D682F5E0D03C4447ACAFE9FE7779606B045B51D1@ID309.springer-sbm.com>

Dear All,
 
Using:
 
Red Hat Linux release 9
Mailman 2.1.9
Sendmail 8.12.8
 
First of all i'm a total sendmail noob so please be nice :-D I've been
scrolling through FAQ's mailinglists etc all day and found many people
have this problem but didn't find a really good solution for this.. Most
problems seem to be related to people forgetting to setup aliases, but
in this case i'm using mm-handler which as far as i understand overrides
the use of aliases and only needs some address in the virtusertable. (if
address doesn't exist in virtusertable then goto mm-handler and get
specific mailinglist address)
 
I got everything up and running, made the test list, received the mails
from the test list, was able to subscribe people to it using the
webinterface, the newly subscribed people also received the mails.
 
Problem is when trying to send a mail to the new mailinglist.
 
550 5.1.1 <testlist at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com>... User unknown
 
I followed all the instructions according to the README.mm-handler file.
 
My handler file looks like this:
 
/etc/mail/mm-handler
 
-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman  mailman      5951 Mar 20 13:39 mm-handler
 
The link to mailman:
 
[root at senldogo0013 mail]# cd /etc/smrsh/
[root at senldogo0013 smrsh]# ll
total 5
drwxr-xr-x    2 root     root         1024 Mar 20 10:22 .
drwxr-xr-x   50 root     root         4096 Mar 20 15:21 ..
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           31 Mar 20 10:22 mailman ->
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
 
The appropriate parts of the sendmail.cf (at least i think these are
only the appropriate ones concerning this problem)
 
# Mailer table (overriding domains)
Kmailertable hash -o /etc/mail/mailertable.db
 
# Virtual user table (maps incoming users)
Kvirtuser hash -o /etc/mail/virtusertable.db
 
Mmailman,       P=/etc/mail/mm-handler, F=rDFMhlqSu, U=mailman:mailman,
                S=EnvFromL, R=EnvToL/HdrToL,
                A=mm-handler $h $u
 
Mailertable looks like this:
 
senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com   mailman:senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com
 
And the Virtusertable like this:
 
mailman at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com
support_smarthost at springer-sbm.com
mailman-owner at senldogo0013.sprinegr-sbm.com
support_smarthost at springer-sbm.com
MAILER-DAEMON at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com
support_smarthost at springer-sbm.com
postmaster at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com
support_smarthost at springer-sbm.com
webmaster at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com
support_smarthost at springer-sbm.com
abuse at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com
support_smarthost at springer-sbm.com
root at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com
support_smarthost at springer-sbm.com
 
When sending a test message to either of the above mentioned addresses
works which indicates that the virtusertable file is active and working.
When trying to send a test message to a invalid or valid mailinglist
address i get the user unknown message back from sendmail and not the
error message i'm expecting from the mm-handler which indicates to me
that sendmail isn't properly seeing the mm-handler.
 
My main concern is the sendmail.cf, i first edited the os delivered
sendmail.mc file did some cut pasting from the mailman.mc file then
generated the sendmail.cf file using the proper m4 method. Maybe someone
can give me a basic sendmail.cf which can be easily used for the basic
mail & mailman functionality cause the mailman.mc file which comes with
the package can't be used cause that one gives lots of errors. 
 
Thanks for the help!
 
 
-	
Marco van Kammen
Springer
Unix / Exchange System Manager 
Floor Manager / Postmaster
-	
Van Godewijckstraat 30 | 3311 GX
Office Number: 05E21 
P.O. Box 17 | 3300 AA
Dordrecht | The Netherlands 	
tel	 +31 (0) 78 657 6446	
fax	 +31 (0) 78 657 6302	
Marco.vanKammen at springer.com
www.springer.com <http://www.springer.com/>  
-	
 
 

From rick at niof.net  Tue Mar 20 17:44:06 2007
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 12:44:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Display error for 'members' page
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007031915413106565c2ec90f@msapiro>
References: <20070319215607.GD5057@niof.net>
	<PC17602007031915413106565c2ec90f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070320164406.GE5057@niof.net>

On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 03:41:31PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Rick Pasotto wrote:
> >
> >I tried to clone a member from the command line (something I've done
> >many times previously) but it failed with a NotAMemberError error. The
> >traceback indicated that the *new* address was the problem. Well, of
> >course the new address was not (yet) a member!
> >
> >Anyway, now when I try to use the web interface the 'members' page won't
> >display. I get a 'Bug in Mailman' error.
> 
> 
> And what is the traceback from this error in Mailman's error log.

Here it is:

Mar 20 12:33:53 2007 admin(13911): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
admin(13911): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----] 
admin(13911): [----- Traceback ------] 
admin(13911): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(13911):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in run_main
admin(13911):     main()
admin(13911):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 197, in main
admin(13911):     show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata)
admin(13911):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 497, in show_results
admin(13911):     form.AddItem(membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc, form))
admin(13911):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 978, in membership_options
admin(13911):     names = filter(None, [mlist.getMemberName(s) for s in members])
admin(13911):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 131, in getMemberName
admin(13911):     self.__assertIsMember(member)
admin(13911):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in __assertIsMember
admin(13911):     raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
admin(13911): NotAMemberError: tdeal at Charlotte.EthenAllen.com

I don't know if it would be wise to include the python/server info so I
have omitted them.

The member name that produces the error is the one I was trying to add.

> >I have other lists on this machine (different domains) and they still
> >work fine.
> >
> >How do I fix the problem?
> 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp>
> may help.

I don't see why you would think so.

'bin/list_members -i listname' returns nothing.

-- 
"Now what liberty can there be where property is taken without consent??"
	--  Samuel Adams
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 20 18:37:26 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:37:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Display error for 'members' page
In-Reply-To: <20070320164406.GE5057@niof.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020070320103726004840682baa@msapiro>

Rick Pasotto wrote:

>On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 03:41:31PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> And what is the traceback from this error in Mailman's error log.
>
>Here it is:
>
>Mar 20 12:33:53 2007 admin(13911): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
>admin(13911): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----] 
>admin(13911): [----- Traceback ------] 
>admin(13911): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(13911):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in run_main
>admin(13911):     main()
>admin(13911):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 197, in main
>admin(13911):     show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata)
>admin(13911):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 497, in show_results
>admin(13911):     form.AddItem(membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc, form))
>admin(13911):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 978, in membership_options
>admin(13911):     names = filter(None, [mlist.getMemberName(s) for s in members])
>admin(13911):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 131, in getMemberName
>admin(13911):     self.__assertIsMember(member)
>admin(13911):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in __assertIsMember
>admin(13911):     raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
>admin(13911): NotAMemberError: tdeal at Charlotte.EthenAllen.com



The problem is the upper case letters in the domain. This shouldn't
happen, but there may be a mailman bug. I don't see a problem in the
code, but there may be.

You can see the issue with bin/dumpdb or bin/withlist, and fix it with
withlist. The list's members (or digest_members) dictionary should
have the key:value pair

'tdeal at charlotte.ethenallen.com':'tdeal at Charlotte.EthenAllen.com'

for this member. There should be no upper case in the key. It might
also be a good idea to do

  bin/dumpdb lists/listname/config.pck | grep EthanAllen

to make sure there are no other upper case entries.

Assuming the only problem is that the entry in the members (or
digest_members) dictionary is either

'tdeal at Charlotte.EthenAllen.com':0

or

'tdeal at Charlotte.EthenAllen.com':'tdeal at Charlotte.EthenAllen.com'

you can fix it with withlist. Start withlist with

bin/withlist -l listname

Then do the following (assuming a regular member)

m.members['tdeal at charlotte.ethenallen.com'] = \
    'tdeal at Charlotte.EthenAllen.com'
del m.members['tdeal at Charlotte.EthenAllen.com']
m.Save()

(control-D to exit)

If you don't care about preserving case in the domain, the first two
lines could be replaced by

m.members['tdeal at charlotte.ethenallen.com'] = 0



>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp>
>> may help.
>
>I don't see why you would think so.
>
>'bin/list_members -i listname' returns nothing.


But if it had returned something, it would have been helpful ;-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 20 18:52:24 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:52:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Display error for 'members' page
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070320103726004840682baa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC176020070320105224087686a80464@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>The problem is the upper case letters in the domain. This shouldn't
>happen, but there may be a mailman bug. I don't see a problem in the
>code, but there may be.


I can duplicate the problem. I'll work up a patch. In the mean time,
don't try to specify a new address with upper case in the domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Mar 20 20:28:04 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:28:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, AOL and server names
In-Reply-To: <45FFDABD.6030306@e-aa.org>
References: <45FFDABD.6030306@e-aa.org>
Message-ID: <p06240505c225e505a462@[10.0.1.201]>

At 7:59 AM -0500 3/20/07, Dennis Morgan wrote:

>  A persistent problem we've had is a significant amount of our users are
>  AOL - and many are clueless. We're pretty ruthless about deleting AOL
>  users when we get a report that someone is using their spam button - but
>  even so a lot (most) of our mail to AOL gets rejected. We've decided
>  that part of the problem is we're using an older version of majordomo.

See also FAQ 3.42.

>  I *think* another part of our problem can be found in this bit of our
>  dns report from dnsstuff.com:
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  OK: All of your mailservers have their host name in the greeting:
>
>  mail.e-aa.org:
>      220 dedicated.bixbycreek.com ESMTP Sendmail 8.12.10/8.12.10; Tue, 20
>  Mar 2007 05:44:34 -0800
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>  In other words our mailing domain name is different than our mail server
>  domain name.

That shouldn't be an issue.  I send e-mail as brad at shub-internet.org, 
although I may use any number of different servers as my outbound 
mail relay for those messages depending on where I am, what computer 
I'm using and what network it uses to access the Internet, etc....

Only really stupid people check the domain name of your envelope 
sender and require that it be sent from a machine with a matching 
domain name.  I've run into some stupid people like this, but I'm 
pretty sure they're not doing this at AOL -- we weeded out that kind 
of stupidity years ago, when I was the Sr. Internet Mail 
Administrator at AOL.

>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  WARNING: One or more of your mailservers is claiming to be a host other
>  than what it really is (the SMTP greeting should be a 3-digit code,
>  followed by a space or a dash, then the host name). If your mailserver
>  sends out E-mail using this domain in its EHLO or HELO, your E-mail
>  might get blocked by anti-spam software. This is also a technical
>  violation of RFC821 4.3 (and RFC2821 4.3.1). Note that the hostname
>  given in the SMTP greeting should have an A record pointing back to the
>  same server. Note that this one test may use a cached DNS record.
>
>   mail.eaachat.org claims to be non-existent host dedicated.eaachat.org:
>   220 dedicated.eaachat.org ESMTP
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't think that this is a problem, either.  But I'd need to see 
for myself to be certain.

>  I'm assuming that both of the above problems are part of our AOL
>  problems. Am I correct? And if so - does anyone have a tip or two about
>  what to do to resolve it?
>
>  We're creating an SPF record to see if that helps - we really want at
>  least some of our mail to get through to AOL. We plan to make the switch
>  next week.

Don't use SPF.  Don't use it anywhere.  It causes way more problems 
than it can possibly solve.  Everything I said back in 2004 on this 
subject is still applicable today, if not more so.  See 
<http://bradknowles.typepad.com/considered_harmful/2004/05/spf.html>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue Mar 20 21:14:34 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:14:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different Mailman "Home" Pages?
Message-ID: <200703202014.l2KKEYY5012332@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I wrote last week:

>>I have some Mailman lists that I want advertised to local users, and
>>some Mailman lists that I want advertised to anyone on the Internet.
>>Is there a way of doing this?  Essentially it would require a two
>>front-end pages with some web (apache) logic as to which IP addresses
>>see which page.

And Mark Sapiro replied:

>You do this with two virtual domains in Apache and two virtual hosts in
>Mailman. You may or may not need virtual hosting in your MTA depending
>on whether or not you want separate email domains.
>
>See
><http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-March/056108.html>
>for a bit more detail on the Mailman side of it.

I was able to configure Mailman and Postfix for the second domain.
I am running with a Mailman 2.1.9 package I built for Ubuntu Dapper.
The two domains are

     lists-dev.example.com
     lists-dev1.example.com

and I have configured Postfix to accept both.

I created one test list via

     newlist --urlhost=lists-dev1.example.com \
             --emailhost=lists-dev1.example.com \
             test-extaccess

and the list was visable on the

     lists-dev1.example.com

web page.  All of the Mailman aliases for both sites are in one alias
file

     /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

In the configuration files, I have separate email hosts

     lists-dev.example.com
     lists-dev1.example.com

I am not sure that I need both.    Mail to either nodename is delivered
to the list, even if the list is defined on the other nodename.

When I go to URL

     lists-dev1.example.com

I see the two lists I have created there, and I do not see the lists on
the other web page.  But I am able to get to the lists on the other web
page by knowing the name and entering that name in the URL.

What do I need to do to get separation of the two web sites - so that
one list is not accessible via the other web site?  Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 20 23:51:44 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:51:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Display error for 'members' page
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070320105224087686a80464@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703201551440001bad8960d@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>The problem is the upper case letters in the domain. This shouldn't
>>happen, but there may be a mailman bug. I don't see a problem in the
>>code, but there may be.
>
>
>I can duplicate the problem. I'll work up a patch. In the mean time,
>don't try to specify a new address with upper case in the domain.


The problem occurred in bin/clone_member if the new address had an all
lower case local part and some upper case in the domain.

Attached is a patch to OldStyleMemberships.py which fixes this problem
and one other. The other fix is if this is a straight address change,
preserve the members delivery status if it is disabled by admin or by
user, but not if it is by bounce.

This patch will be in Mailman 2.1.10 and 2.2.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Wed Mar 21 02:00:53 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 21:00:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic postfix/mailman setup issue
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703200817150078e506173d@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200703200817150078e506173d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200703202100.53978.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

Le Mardi 20 Mars 2007 11:17, Mark Sapiro a ?crit?:
> Peter wrote:
> >I am testing a basic installation of mailman 2.1.8 on OpenBSD 4.0.
> >
> >When I try to reply to the confirmation request I get an error from
> > postfix saying that <list>-request at domain.com is not in the recipient
> > table:
> >
> >Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table
> >
> >I thought the mailman aliases handles this?  I have the following in
> > main.cf:
> >
> >alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases
> >
> >/etc/mail/aliases contains:
> >
> >mailman:              "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
> >mailman-admin:        "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
> >mailman-bounces:      "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces
> > mailman" mailman-confirm:      "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
> > confirm mailman" mailman-join:        
> > "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman" mailman-leave:       
> > "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman" mailman-owner:      
> >  "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman" mailman-request:   
> >   "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
> > mailman-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
> > mailman" mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
> > unsubscribe mailman"
> >
> >What else do I need to do?
>
> Those aliases are only for the one 'mailman' site list. You need a set
> for each list with it's own list name. E.g.,
>
> <list>:      "|/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post <list>"
>
> and so on - a full set of 10 for each list.
>
>
> With Postfix you can do this 'automatically' from Mailman. You set
>
> MTA = 'Postfix'
>
> in mm_cfg.py, and you add
>
> hash:usr/local/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>
> (or whatever the correct path is) to alias_maps in your Postfix
> main.cf. See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html> for
> more complete information.
>
> All of mailman's aliases will then be automatically maintained in
> usr/local/lib/mailman/data/aliases.

Thanks for the help.

I have not been able to have mailman generate the aliases automatically.  I 
decided, for now, to go manual.  I put the aliases I got from 'genaliases' 
inside postfix's alias file and then generated the new db ('newaliases').

Now I am getting the group mismatch error:

Group mismatch error. ?Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed 
as group "_mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as 
group "nobody". ?Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as 
group "_mailman", or re-run configure, ?providing the command line option 
`--with-mail-gid=nobody'. )

Yet I have read that this has been fixed since OpenBSD 3.8.  I have installed 
the postfix flavour (of mailman) via OBSD packages.  I guess I can remove it 
and install via OBSD ports and specify the configure option
'--with-mail-gid=mailman'.

Re mailman-generated aliases:
I cannot determine where this mailman package stores them.  I created 
/var/spool/mailman/data/aliases but nothing gets put there.

This is what I have put in mm_cfg.py:

add_virtualhost( 'mailman.domain.com' )
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'

Plus...

once I edited this file (as above) I received an error when trying to create a 
list ("We're sorry, we hit a bug!").  The list does get created.  I'm sure 
this error is related to the aliases.

Thanks again,

Pedro

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 21 02:06:29 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:06:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different Mailman "Home" Pages?
In-Reply-To: <200703202014.l2KKEYY5012332@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC176020070320180629059586a80350@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>When I go to URL
>
>     lists-dev1.example.com
>
>I see the two lists I have created there, and I do not see the lists on
>the other web page.  But I am able to get to the lists on the other web
>page by knowing the name and entering that name in the URL.
>
>What do I need to do to get separation of the two web sites - so that
>one list is not accessible via the other web site?  Thanks.


Two separate Mailman installations.

That's the short answer. Within one Mailman installation, you can set
things up as you have so that a list is associated with a Mailman
virtual host and only appears on overview pages requested via a URL
with that host's name. That's the extent of the separation you can
achieve within one Mailman instance.

If you don't want to be able to access a lists-dev1.example.com list at
all with a lists-dev.example.com URL (or by email
@lists-dev.example.com), you need two Mailman installations configured
with separate var_prefix and exec_prefix.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 21 02:27:38 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:27:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic postfix/mailman setup issue
In-Reply-To: <200703202100.53978.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
References: <PC1760200703200817150078e506173d@msapiro>
	<200703202100.53978.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <46008A0A.9050205@value.net>

Peter wrote:
> 
> I have not been able to have mailman generate the aliases automatically.  I 
> decided, for now, to go manual.  I put the aliases I got from 'genaliases' 
> inside postfix's alias file and then generated the new db ('newaliases').
> 
> Now I am getting the group mismatch error:


Because of the owner:group of /etc/mail/aliases


> Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed 
> as group "_mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as 
> group "nobody".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as 
> group "_mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option 
> `--with-mail-gid=nobody'. )
> 
> Yet I have read that this has been fixed since OpenBSD 3.8.  I have installed 
> the postfix flavour (of mailman) via OBSD packages.  I guess I can remove it 
> and install via OBSD ports and specify the configure option
> '--with-mail-gid=mailman'.


With Postfix, you fix this by ensuring that the aliases* files in which 
Mailman's aliases are found are group mailman. That's only one reason 
why you want Mailman-Postfix integration.


> Re mailman-generated aliases:
> I cannot determine where this mailman package stores them.  I created 
> /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases but nothing gets put there.


They get stored in Mailman's data/ directory which you shouldn't have to 
create and which almost certainly is not /var/spool/mailman/data. Look 
in Defaults.py for the definition of VAR_PREFIX, and that's where you'll 
find it.


> This is what I have put in mm_cfg.py:
> 
> add_virtualhost( 'mailman.domain.com' )
> MTA = 'Postfix'
> POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
> POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'
> 
> Plus...
> 
> once I edited this file (as above) I received an error when trying to create a 
> list ("We're sorry, we hit a bug!").  The list does get created.  I'm sure 
> this error is related to the aliases.


Yes, it almost certainly is. What is the traceback for this error from 
Mailman's 'error' log. Or alternatively, if you have the lines

MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'

in mm_cfg.py and you run Mailman's bin/genaliases, and you don't get the 
same exception and traceback, the issue is almost certainly that you can 
update Mailman's aliases and run /usr/local/sbin/postalias, but there is 
a permissions issue when 'mailman' does it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dave at hamnet.org  Wed Mar 21 02:44:52 2007
From: dave at hamnet.org (Dave Foran)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 21:44:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dump messages
Message-ID: <BOEALOCAPEOBAALIBMCOCEOECFAA.dave@hamnet.org>

Gents

If there an option to just dump spam  that is sent to a list rather than
repliy with you have no permission to send

I have several mailman lists for reasons only spammers know, love to spam
them with all kinds of things

and I would love to just send these replies to /dev/null  Really not even
acknowledge them as in just ignore

Thanks
Dave



 --
Dave Foran                              Internet ONLY:  dave at hamnet.org

            Cruise Missile Coordinates 41.36.46N 81.25.53W


From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Wed Mar 21 04:21:03 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:21:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic postfix/mailman setup issue
In-Reply-To: <46008A0A.9050205@value.net>
References: <PC1760200703200817150078e506173d@msapiro>
	<200703202100.53978.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
	<46008A0A.9050205@value.net>
Message-ID: <200703202321.03798.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

Le Mardi 20 Mars 2007 21:27, Mark Sapiro a ?crit?:
> Peter wrote:
> > I have not been able to have mailman generate the aliases automatically. 
> > I decided, for now, to go manual.  I put the aliases I got from
> > 'genaliases' inside postfix's alias file and then generated the new db
> > ('newaliases').
> >
> > Now I am getting the group mismatch error:
>
> Because of the owner:group of /etc/mail/aliases

Ha,



> > Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
> > executed as group "_mailman", but the system's mail server executed the
> > mail script as group "nobody".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
> > script as group "_mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command
> > line option `--with-mail-gid=nobody'. )
> >
> > Yet I have read that this has been fixed since OpenBSD 3.8.  I have
> > installed the postfix flavour (of mailman) via OBSD packages.  I guess I
> > can remove it and install via OBSD ports and specify the configure option
> > '--with-mail-gid=mailman'.
>
> With Postfix, you fix this by ensuring that the aliases* files in which
> Mailman's aliases are found are group mailman. That's only one reason
> why you want Mailman-Postfix integration.
>
> > Re mailman-generated aliases:
> > I cannot determine where this mailman package stores them.  I created
> > /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases but nothing gets put there.
>
> They get stored in Mailman's data/ directory which you shouldn't have to
> create and which almost certainly is not /var/spool/mailman/data. Look
> in Defaults.py for the definition of VAR_PREFIX, and that's where you'll
> find it.

Here it is:

VAR_PREFIX      = '/var/spool/mailman'

The data directory existed.  I only 'touch'ed /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases.

> > This is what I have put in mm_cfg.py:
> >
> > add_virtualhost( 'mailman.domain.com' )
> > MTA = 'Postfix'
> > POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
> > POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'
> >
> > Plus...
> >
> > once I edited this file (as above) I received an error when trying to
> > create a list ("We're sorry, we hit a bug!").  The list does get created.
> >  I'm sure this error is related to the aliases.
>
> Yes, it almost certainly is. What is the traceback for this error from
> Mailman's 'error' log. Or alternatively, if you have the lines

IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/spool/mailman/data/aliases'

$ ls -lh /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases
-rw-r--r--  1 root      _mailman     0B Mar 20 14:31 aliases

$ chmod 660 /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases

Then I created another list via the interface and no error!

However, I did get a postfix error since I had not put in the new aliases file 
path.  After doing that and reloading postfix I created another list.  
Everything was ok except I get the Group mismatch error again.

Guess I need to remove the package and install the port.

Pedro

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 21 04:53:14 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:53:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic postfix/mailman setup issue
In-Reply-To: <200703202321.03798.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703202053140642a82fae90@msapiro>

Peter wrote:
>
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/spool/mailman/data/aliases'
>
>$ ls -lh /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases
>-rw-r--r--  1 root      _mailman     0B Mar 20 14:31 aliases
>
>$ chmod 660 /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases
>
>Then I created another list via the interface and no error!
>
>However, I did get a postfix error since I had not put in the new aliases file
>path.  After doing that and reloading postfix I created another list.
>Everything was ok except I get the Group mismatch error again.
>
>Guess I need to remove the package and install the port.

Maybe, maybe not.

What is the group of aliases.db?

And what's "_mailman" in the ls output above.

And what does your mismatch error say it expected and got?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Wed Mar 21 05:04:06 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:04:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic postfix/mailman setup issue
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703202053140642a82fae90@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200703202053140642a82fae90@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200703210004.06845.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

Le Mardi 20 Mars 2007 23:53, Mark Sapiro a ?crit?:
> Peter wrote:
> >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/spool/mailman/data/aliases'
> >
> >$ ls -lh /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases
> >-rw-r--r--  1 root      _mailman     0B Mar 20 14:31 aliases
> >
> >$ chmod 660 /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases
> >
> >Then I created another list via the interface and no error!
> >
> >However, I did get a postfix error since I had not put in the new aliases
> > file path.  After doing that and reloading postfix I created another
> > list. Everything was ok except I get the Group mismatch error again.
> >
> >Guess I need to remove the package and install the port.
>
> Maybe, maybe not.
>
> What is the group of aliases.db?

$ ls -lh /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases*
-rw-rw----  1 _mailman  _mailman  10.4K Mar 20 
23:52 /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases
-rw-r-----  1 www       _mailman  64.0K Mar 20 
23:52 /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases.db

> And what's "_mailman" in the ls output above.

That's the mailman group that the OpenBSD install sets up.  There is also the 
_mailman user.

> And what does your mismatch error say it expected and got?

Command died with status 2:
? ? "/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request gravitar". Command output:
? ? Group mismatch error. ?Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
? ? executed as group "_mailman", but the system's mail server executed the
? ? mail script as group "www". ?Try tweaking the mail server to run the 
script
? ? as group "_mailman", or re-run configure, ?providing the command line
? ? option `--with-mail-gid=www'.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 21 05:20:15 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 21:20:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic postfix/mailman setup issue
In-Reply-To: <200703210004.06845.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
References: <PC1760200703202053140642a82fae90@msapiro>
	<200703210004.06845.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <4600B27F.4090004@value.net>

Peter wrote:
> Le Mardi 20 Mars 2007 23:53, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :
>>
>> What is the group of aliases.db?
> 
> $ ls -lh /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases*
> -rw-rw----  1 _mailman  _mailman  10.4K Mar 20 
> 23:52 /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases
> -rw-r-----  1 www       _mailman  64.0K Mar 20 
> 23:52 /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases.db


Try

chmod 660 /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases.db
chown _mailman /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases.db


>> And what's "_mailman" in the ls output above.
> 
> That's the mailman group that the OpenBSD install sets up.  There is also the 
> _mailman user.
> 
>> And what does your mismatch error say it expected and got?
> 
> Command died with status 2:
>     "/usr/local/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request gravitar". Command output:
>     Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
>     executed as group "_mailman", but the system's mail server executed the
>     mail script as group "www".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the 
> script
>     as group "_mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line
>     option `--with-mail-gid=www'.


My understanding of Postfix is that it should run the pipe to the 
wrapper with the group of the aliases.db file, but my understanding 
could well be wrong. Maybe it runs as the user of the file and that 
user's group. Thus, I suggest changing the user.

The aliases.db must then be group writable because the web list create 
runs as user www (presumably), but group _mailman because the wrappers 
are group _mailman and SETGID.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Wed Mar 21 05:53:19 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:53:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic postfix/mailman setup issue
In-Reply-To: <4600B27F.4090004@value.net>
References: <PC1760200703202053140642a82fae90@msapiro>
	<200703210004.06845.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
	<4600B27F.4090004@value.net>
Message-ID: <200703210053.19734.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

Le Mercredi 21 Mars 2007 00:20, Mark Sapiro a ?crit?:
> Peter wrote:
> > Le Mardi 20 Mars 2007 23:53, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :
> >> What is the group of aliases.db?
> >
> > $ ls -lh /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases*
> > -rw-rw----  1 _mailman  _mailman  10.4K Mar 20
> > 23:52 /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases
> > -rw-r-----  1 www       _mailman  64.0K Mar 20
> > 23:52 /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases.db
>
> Try
>
> chmod 660 /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases.db
> chown _mailman /var/spool/mailman/data/aliases.db

That change allowed a new list to be created and subscribed to without any 
error.  Strange that I need to first create an initial dummy list that will 
cause aliases.db to be created and then change its ownership and mode.

> My understanding of Postfix is that it should run the pipe to the
> wrapper with the group of the aliases.db file, but my understanding
> could well be wrong. Maybe it runs as the user of the file and that
> user's group. Thus, I suggest changing the user.
>
> The aliases.db must then be group writable because the web list create
> runs as user www (presumably), but group _mailman because the wrappers
> are group _mailman and SETGID.

Ok.  Thanks very much for your help.  I am now going to attempt to migrate an 
existing mailman installation over to this new one.  I sent in a post on this 
procedure yesterday (and you responded to it as well; thanks again!)

Pedro

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Mar 21 06:31:11 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:31:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dump messages
In-Reply-To: <BOEALOCAPEOBAALIBMCOCEOECFAA.dave@hamnet.org>
References: <BOEALOCAPEOBAALIBMCOCEOECFAA.dave@hamnet.org>
Message-ID: <p06240502c2267330f642@[10.0.1.201]>

At 9:44 PM -0400 3/20/07, Dave Foran wrote:

>  If there an option to just dump spam  that is sent to a list rather than
>  repliy with you have no permission to send
>
>  I have several mailman lists for reasons only spammers know, love to spam
>  them with all kinds of things
>
>  and I would love to just send these replies to /dev/null  Really not even
>  acknowledge them as in just ignore

Default moderate posts from senders who are not subscribers, then go 
through the moderation queue and handle the messages from real 
people, then click the little box at the bottom that says "Discard 
all messages marked /Defer/", and then click the button that says 
"Submit All Data".  You're done.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From srb at umich.edu  Wed Mar 21 14:37:55 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:37:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte
Message-ID: <529BA7489DFCC8ED4973A3BF@srb.local>

Almost a year ago, in 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-April/043992.html>, 
Mark Sapiro wrote (in response to a question about this error):

> This error caused the message to be shunted (placed in the shunt
> queue). You can run bin/unshunt to reprocess the message, but unless
> you change the character set of the list language first, the error
> will occur again and the message will be shunted again.
>
> To change the character set to e.g. western european, you can put
>
> add_language('en',    'English (USA)',       'iso-8859-1')
>
> in mm_cfg.py and then do
>
> bin/mailmanctl restart
>
> followed by
>
> bin/unshunt

Is there any downside to making this change?  I notice that iso-8859-1 is 
the standard charset for the majority of the languages listed in Defaults.py

(As you can probably guess, I'm seeing the above error...)

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 21 15:07:04 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:07:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode
	byte
In-Reply-To: <529BA7489DFCC8ED4973A3BF@srb.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703210707040828e5061a20@msapiro>

Steve Burling wrote:

>Almost a year ago, in 
><http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-April/043992.html>, 
>Mark Sapiro wrote (in response to a question about this error):
>
>> This error caused the message to be shunted (placed in the shunt
>> queue). You can run bin/unshunt to reprocess the message, but unless
>> you change the character set of the list language first, the error
>> will occur again and the message will be shunted again.
>>
>> To change the character set to e.g. western european, you can put
>>
>> add_language('en',    'English (USA)',       'iso-8859-1')
>>
>> in mm_cfg.py and then do
>>
>> bin/mailmanctl restart
>>
>> followed by
>>
>> bin/unshunt
>
>Is there any downside to making this change?  I notice that iso-8859-1 is 
>the standard charset for the majority of the languages listed in Defaults.py
>
>(As you can probably guess, I'm seeing the above error...)


I'm not aware of any real downside, but there may be one I'm not aware
of.

However, that response was to a specific occurrence of this exception
in Decorate.py. If you are seeing this exception with a different
traceback, changing the language character set won't eliminate the
exception.

A more common cause of the exception is non-encoded, non-ascii
characters in the message Subject:, and that won't be fixed by this
change. Note that such messages are almost always spam.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 21 15:15:47 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:15:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dump messages
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c2267330f642@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703210715470968e5061ad7@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 9:44 PM -0400 3/20/07, Dave Foran wrote:
>
>>  If there an option to just dump spam  that is sent to a list rather than
>>  repliy with you have no permission to send
>>
>>  I have several mailman lists for reasons only spammers know, love to spam
>>  them with all kinds of things
>>
>>  and I would love to just send these replies to /dev/null  Really not even
>>  acknowledge them as in just ignore
>
>Default moderate posts from senders who are not subscribers, then go 
>through the moderation queue and handle the messages from real 
>people, then click the little box at the bottom that says "Discard 
>all messages marked /Defer/", and then click the button that says 
>"Submit All Data".  You're done.


I replied to this yesterday, but neglected to copy the list.

If you do the above, you also want to set respond_to_post_requests to
No to prevent sending the held message notice to the spam's alleged
sender.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From srb at umich.edu  Wed Mar 21 16:29:57 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 11:29:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't
 decode	byte
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703210707040828e5061a20@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200703210707040828e5061a20@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C12ABF274D6F6FB82B952343@srb.local>

--On March 21, 2007 7:07:04 AM -0700 Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> However, that response was to a specific occurrence of this exception
> in Decorate.py. If you are seeing this exception with a different
> traceback, changing the language character set won't eliminate the
> exception.
>
> A more common cause of the exception is non-encoded, non-ascii
> characters in the message Subject:, and that won't be fixed by this
> change. Note that such messages are almost always spam.

To which I reply:

Ok, I made the change, ran bin/unshunt, and the four messages in the shunt 
queue were re-shunted, so that's not it.  Here's a characteristic traceback:

Mar 21 10:35:47 2007 (6861) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't 
decode byte 0xc0 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
Mar 21 10:35:47 2007 (6861) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)  File 
"/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in ArchiveMail
    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 580, in 
processUnixMailbox
    self.add_article(a)  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", 
line 632, in add_article
    article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 664, in 
get_parent_info
    article.subject)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 311, in 
getOldestArticle
    self.__openIndices(archive)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251, in 
__openIndices
    t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))  File 
"/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 65, in __init__
    self.load()
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 179, in load
    self.__sort(dirty=1)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 73, in __sort 
self.sorted.sort()
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc0 in position 0: 
ordinal not in range(128)
Mar 21 10:35:47 2007 (6861) SHUNTING: 
1174487402.1760509+9438ae178cf24ca45b73094e18778ba97c71df17

>From this, I'm guessing that something is wrong with a message in the 
list's .mbox file, which is confusing things.  Is that a reasonable guess? 
If so, is there a reasonable way to figure out *what* message is causing 
the problem (it's a *big* mailbox)?

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From reikiiii at comcast.net  Wed Mar 21 17:49:50 2007
From: reikiiii at comcast.net (reikiiii at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:49:50 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing banned list members
Message-ID: <032120071649.7769.4601622D000ECA4600001E5922135753330707070705070A9D@comcast.net>

Hi, I'm new to this list and to using Mailman. I am stepping in temporarily
in caring for the list I'm working with, and I have been asked to un-ban a
member. I don't know the reasons behind this banning, but since I have been
asked to undo it and subscribe them, I've been trying to find information
on this. I have not been successful in the FAQs or in the archives.

Can anyone tell me in plain english how to do this? I am not experienced in programming. Thanks!

--
Blessings,
Toni


 

From ike at kni.univ.szczecin.pl  Wed Mar 21 18:15:11 2007
From: ike at kni.univ.szczecin.pl (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Lech_Karol_Paw=B3aszek?=)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 18:15:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists.
Message-ID: <4601681F.3050200@kni.univ.szczecin.pl>

Hello,

I have a problem with setting up an umberlla list. I know it is wrong 
and i should not use umbrella list, but (i think) i really have to. If 
anyone has any other solution to my problem - i'm listening.

I want to have "mutliple level" list. At the very moment my company uses 
"announce" list to announce important stuff. But we also have country 
announce lists - such as "announce.pl" or "announce.fi" and so on. 
Moreover - we have regional (or city) announce lists - such as 
"announce.szczecin" and "announce.warsaw" (sometimes i think those 
should have names like "announce.pl.szczecin").

Let sum it up:
announce:
   + announce.poland
     - announce.szczecin
     - announce.warsaw
   + announce.finland
     - announce.helsinki

What i would like is to have "true lists" only at the lowest level. But 
be able to accept incoming mail at the highest level and not to worry 
about accepting the same mail on the other lists (if it is not from my 
company domainname).

I've tried acceptable_aliases variable, but it doesn't work if the lower 
level lists doesn't have sender on a member list (which is ok). So i 
tried to use spam filters and header_filter_rules variable and set one 
rule matching "announce" at "announce.poland" level with action 
"accept", but when generic_nonmember_action variable is set to hold 
(members only list) - message still hits "on hold" queue, and when 
generic_action_variable is set to accept (anyone can send emails) 
messages pass through spam filters anyway. Is there any way to tell 
mailman to accept message matching header (like accept_these_nonmembers 
but looking at recepient address oslt) even if the list is "members only"?

Sorry for my English - i am not native speaker. Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

-- 
Lech Karol Paw?aszek <ike>
"You will never see me fall from grace" [KoRn]

From oxelson at unidata.ucar.edu  Wed Mar 21 18:32:31 2007
From: oxelson at unidata.ucar.edu (Jennifer Oxelson)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 11:32:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-request who command
Message-ID: <46016C2F.9020700@unidata.ucar.edu>

Hello,

Sending email to the listname-request alias,  I'm able to verify that I 
can everyone who is on a mailing list by supplying the list 
administrator or moderator password to retrieve the roster (I have the 
list roster is limited to list administrators and moderators only). 

The issue is I can send the 'who' email command with the admin password 
from /*any*/ email address (not even subscribed) and get the roster... 
is this right?   Wouldn't it be better if the 'who' command only worked 
for email addresses corresponding to list admins/moderators when the 
list roster is configured to be only available to these privileged 
users?  (Or am I being overly paranoid?)

Thanks

From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Wed Mar 21 19:10:18 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 14:10:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble seeing migrated list on admin page
Message-ID: <200703211410.18716.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

I have migrated a list from an old installation (2.1.5) to a new machine 
(running 2.1.8).  It appears that the move was successful since I can access 
its page at:

http://mailman.domain.com/mailman/admin/<listname>

But it does not show up on the main admin page:

http://mailman.domain.com/mailman/admin

This is the procedure I used for the move:

cd /var/spool/mailman/lists
cp -pr $OLD_MAILMAN/lists/<listname> .
withlist -l -r fix_url <listname>
cd ../archives/private
cp -rp $OLD_MAILMAN/archives/private/<listname>.mbox/ .
cleanarch -n < <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox
cleanarch < <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox > tmp
cp tmp <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox
arch --wipe <listname>

There are no errors in mailman/logs.

Thanks,

Pedro

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Mar 21 23:34:25 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:34:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-request who command
In-Reply-To: <46016C2F.9020700@unidata.ucar.edu>
References: <46016C2F.9020700@unidata.ucar.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00703211534j4d9b5f8cu18ca8fc3347bb6d1@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/21/07, Jennifer Oxelson <oxelson at unidata.ucar.edu> wrote:
> The issue is I can send the 'who' email command with the admin password
> from /*any*/ email address (not even subscribed) and get the roster...
> is this right?   Wouldn't it be better if the 'who' command only worked
> for email addresses corresponding to list admins/moderators when the
> list roster is configured to be only available to these privileged
> users?  (Or am I being overly paranoid?)

Checking the email address would only add a sense of security, not any
real security. Email addresses are *easily* forged. Trivially forged,
even.

So, this might actually even be a bad thing, since it will give a
false sense of security while actually adding none.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 22 06:41:25 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 22:41:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec
	can'tdecode	byte
In-Reply-To: <C12ABF274D6F6FB82B952343@srb.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703212241250125088273b6@msapiro>

Steve Burling wrote:
>
>Ok, I made the change, ran bin/unshunt, and the four messages in the shunt 
>queue were re-shunted, so that's not it.  Here's a characteristic traceback:
>
>Mar 21 10:35:47 2007 (6861) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't 
>decode byte 0xc0 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
>Mar 21 10:35:47 2007 (6861) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
>    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)  File 
>"/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in ArchiveMail
>    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 580, in 
>processUnixMailbox
>    self.add_article(a)  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", 
>line 632, in add_article
>    article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 664, in 
>get_parent_info
>    article.subject)
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 311, in 
>getOldestArticle
>    self.__openIndices(archive)
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251, in 
>__openIndices
>    t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))  File 
>"/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 65, in __init__
>    self.load()
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 179, in load
>    self.__sort(dirty=1)
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 73, in __sort 
>self.sorted.sort()
>UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc0 in position 0: 
>ordinal not in range(128)
>Mar 21 10:35:47 2007 (6861) SHUNTING: 
>1174487402.1760509+9438ae178cf24ca45b73094e18778ba97c71df17
>
>>From this, I'm guessing that something is wrong with a message in the 
>list's .mbox file, which is confusing things.  Is that a reasonable guess? 


There may or may not be a problem with the list's .mbox file, but
that's not what h.processUnixMailbox(f) is doing in the above
traceback. It's only processing one message.


>If so, is there a reasonable way to figure out *what* message is causing 
>the problem (it's a *big* mailbox)?


The problem is likely caused by some issue with one of the current
database files in archives/private/listname/database/.

There are a couple of threads on this problem that can be found by the
google search
<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman-users++%22%27ascii%27+codec+can%27t+decode+byte%22+HyperDatabase.py>
(or <http://tinyurl.com/2vwpoz> if you prefer).

The solution in both those cases was rebuilding the archive with
"bin/arch --wipe", but if your archives are old, I suggest first
running "bin/cleanarch --dry-run" on the mbox file and then running
cleanarch again if a problem is found.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dennis at e-aa.org  Thu Mar 22 15:10:46 2007
From: dennis at e-aa.org (Dennis Morgan)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:10:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, AOL and server names
In-Reply-To: <p06240505c225e505a462@[10.0.1.201]>
References: <45FFDABD.6030306@e-aa.org> <p06240505c225e505a462@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <46028E66.8000205@e-aa.org>

Thanks for your reply Brad.

Yeah, I read and reread the FAQ. Mailman has one of the best faq's I've 
ever seen.

The percentage of our mail that AOL rejects is just huge - around 90% - 
I was hoping that maybe someone could see something that we were doing 
wrong. It'd be nice to get the rejection rate down.

Dennis

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 7:59 AM -0500 3/20/07, Dennis Morgan wrote:
>
>>  A persistent problem we've had is a significant amount of our users are
>>  AOL - and many are clueless. We're pretty ruthless about deleting AOL
>>  users when we get a report that someone is using their spam button - 
>> but
>>  even so a lot (most) of our mail to AOL gets rejected. We've decided
>>  that part of the problem is we're using an older version of majordomo.
>
> See also FAQ 3.42.
>
>>  I *think* another part of our problem can be found in this bit of our
>>  dns report from dnsstuff.com:
>>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>  OK: All of your mailservers have their host name in the greeting:
>>
>>  mail.e-aa.org:
>>      220 dedicated.bixbycreek.com ESMTP Sendmail 8.12.10/8.12.10; 
>> Tue, 20
>>  Mar 2007 05:44:34 -0800
>>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>  In other words our mailing domain name is different than our mail 
>> server
>>  domain name.
>
> That shouldn't be an issue.  I send e-mail as brad at shub-internet.org, 
> although I may use any number of different servers as my outbound mail 
> relay for those messages depending on where I am, what computer I'm 
> using and what network it uses to access the Internet, etc....
>
> Only really stupid people check the domain name of your envelope 
> sender and require that it be sent from a machine with a matching 
> domain name.  I've run into some stupid people like this, but I'm 
> pretty sure they're not doing this at AOL -- we weeded out that kind 
> of stupidity years ago, when I was the Sr. Internet Mail Administrator 
> at AOL.
>
>>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>  WARNING: One or more of your mailservers is claiming to be a host other
>>  than what it really is (the SMTP greeting should be a 3-digit code,
>>  followed by a space or a dash, then the host name). If your mailserver
>>  sends out E-mail using this domain in its EHLO or HELO, your E-mail
>>  might get blocked by anti-spam software. This is also a technical
>>  violation of RFC821 4.3 (and RFC2821 4.3.1). Note that the hostname
>>  given in the SMTP greeting should have an A record pointing back to the
>>  same server. Note that this one test may use a cached DNS record.
>>
>>   mail.eaachat.org claims to be non-existent host dedicated.eaachat.org:
>>   220 dedicated.eaachat.org ESMTP
>>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> I don't think that this is a problem, either.  But I'd need to see for 
> myself to be certain.
>
>>  I'm assuming that both of the above problems are part of our AOL
>>  problems. Am I correct? And if so - does anyone have a tip or two about
>>  what to do to resolve it?
>>
>>  We're creating an SPF record to see if that helps - we really want at
>>  least some of our mail to get through to AOL. We plan to make the 
>> switch
>>  next week.
>
> Don't use SPF.  Don't use it anywhere.  It causes way more problems 
> than it can possibly solve.  Everything I said back in 2004 on this 
> subject is still applicable today, if not more so.  See 
> <http://bradknowles.typepad.com/considered_harmful/2004/05/spf.html>.
>

From ken at lookaroundcornwall.com  Thu Mar 22 15:40:02 2007
From: ken at lookaroundcornwall.com (lookaroundcornwall.com)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:40:02 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <00d801c76c8f$f996a0f0$0202a8c0@P4Tower>

A few months ago, I set up mailman to manage bulk email of a
subscription-based newsletter. Only the admin can post. For some reason,
it's stopped working. All posts are moderated, so I usually send a message
to HYPERLINK
"mailto:announce at mailman.mydomain.com"announce at mailman.mydomain.com and I
get a response asking me to authorize the request. I get nothing. And if I
log on to the admin page there are no pending requests. The message isn't
bounced, but it's like it's never received. subscribe and other messages to
HYPERLINK
"mailto:announce-request at mailman.mydomain.com"announce-request at mailman.mydom
ain.com are similarly ignored.
 
Any suggestions as to where I should start looking?
 
Thanks
 
Ken

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 21/03/2007
07:52
 

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 15:46:57 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:46:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <00d801c76c8f$f996a0f0$0202a8c0@P4Tower>
References: <00d801c76c8f$f996a0f0$0202a8c0@P4Tower>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00703220746q57e7801er96ce8a161a5f315b@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/22/07, lookaroundcornwall.com <ken at lookaroundcornwall.com> wrote:
> Any suggestions as to where I should start looking?

If you have shell-level access to the server at mydomain.com (by the
way, please see RFC 2606 <http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2606.txt>,
about what domain names to use for examples. :), you should start by
first checking your MTA (e.g., sendmail, postfix, exim) logs
(generally something like /var/log/mail*) to see if the message you
send is being received. If the mail is getting to the server, next
check to see if the mail is getting to Mailman. This should be in your
MTA logs, as well as in Mailman's logs (post?).

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 15:48:34 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:48:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, AOL and server names
In-Reply-To: <46028E66.8000205@e-aa.org>
References: <45FFDABD.6030306@e-aa.org> <p06240505c225e505a462@10.0.1.201>
	<46028E66.8000205@e-aa.org>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00703220748u54f71af7kd76c23052147e4f0@mail.gmail.com>

To reiterate what Brad said, please see FAQ 3.42. It specifically
talks about this issue.

On 3/22/07, Dennis Morgan <dennis at e-aa.org> wrote:
> The percentage of our mail that AOL rejects is just huge - around 90% -
> I was hoping that maybe someone could see something that we were doing
> wrong. It'd be nice to get the rejection rate down.
>
> Dennis
>
> Brad Knowles wrote:
> > See also FAQ 3.42.


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From ken at lookaroundcornwall.com  Thu Mar 22 15:53:02 2007
From: ken at lookaroundcornwall.com (lookaroundcornwall.com)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:53:02 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Broken mailman
Message-ID: <00f001c76c91$ca458580$0202a8c0@P4Tower>

Thanks Patrick, I'll start looking

It's getting through to the server - this from the exim log

2007-03-22 14:44:34 1HUOWo-0006sQ-9Z =>
|/usr/local/home/mailman/mail/mailman owner announce
announce-owner at mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com
R=system_aliases_all_local_domains T=alias_pipe

Oddly, I seem to be getting mail addressed to mailman at mailman.mydomain.com
but nothing else

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 21/03/2007
07:52
 


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 15:56:05 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:56:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Broken mailman
In-Reply-To: <00f001c76c91$ca458580$0202a8c0@P4Tower>
References: <00f001c76c91$ca458580$0202a8c0@P4Tower>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00703220756k3e2ed2ye56bfed144294390@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/22/07, lookaroundcornwall.com <ken at lookaroundcornwall.com> wrote:
> It's getting through to the server - this from the exim log
>
> 2007-03-22 14:44:34 1HUOWo-0006sQ-9Z =>
> |/usr/local/home/mailman/mail/mailman owner announce
> announce-owner at mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com
> R=system_aliases_all_local_domains T=alias_pipe

This isn't *quite* right. This is some notification or other that's
intended for the owner of the announce list. Is there a similar log
entry that references either announce at mailman...?

> Oddly, I seem to be getting mail addressed to mailman at mailman.mydomain.com
> but nothing else
I don't see that indicated from this single log entry, but maybe there
are others you didn't include. That's okay. At first guess, I'd
suppose there's something wrong getting the email to your server,
which is somewhat out of the scope of this mailing list.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 16:01:08 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:01:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing banned list members
In-Reply-To: <032120071649.7769.4601622D000ECA4600001E5922135753330707070705070A9D@comcast.net>
References: <032120071649.7769.4601622D000ECA4600001E5922135753330707070705070A9D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00703220801r1790bf08tbd9637497f5a711e@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/21/07, reikiiii at comcast.net <reikiiii at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi, I'm new to this list and to using Mailman. I am stepping in temporarily
> in caring for the list I'm working with, and I have been asked to un-ban a
> member. I don't know the reasons behind this banning, but since I have been
> asked to undo it and subscribe them, I've been trying to find information
> on this. I have not been successful in the FAQs or in the archives.

This all depends on how the member was 'banned'.

Basically, you need to visit the list's admin page (something like
http://www.example.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/somelist), and check:
(1) Membership Management...: If the user is in this list, make sure
the 'mod' checkbox isn't marked
(2) Privacy Options... > Sender Filters: Make the the user's email
isn't listed in hold_these_nonmembers, reject_these_nonmembers, or
discard_these_nonmembers.
(3) Privacy Options... > Spam filters: Make sure there isn't a pattern
in header_filter_rules or bounce_matching_headers that would match a
message sent by the user.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 22 16:03:16 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 08:03:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disappearing posts [was: (no subject)]
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00703220746q57e7801er96ce8a161a5f315b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032208031602814dc7e189@msapiro>

Patrick Bogenwrote:

>On 3/22/07, lookaroundcornwall.com <ken at lookaroundcornwall.com> wrote:
>> Any suggestions as to where I should start looking?
>
>If you have shell-level access to the server at mydomain.com (by the
>way, please see RFC 2606 <http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2606.txt>,
>about what domain names to use for examples. :), you should start by
>first checking your MTA (e.g., sendmail, postfix, exim) logs
>(generally something like /var/log/mail*) to see if the message you
>send is being received. If the mail is getting to the server, next
>check to see if the mail is getting to Mailman. This should be in your
>MTA logs, as well as in Mailman's logs (post?).


Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

One likely cause is that Mailman's qrunners (IncomingRunner in
particular) are not running.

There won't be anything in Mailman's post log because that log is
written upon delivery to the list and the message doesn't even get to
moderation.

Look in Mailman's qfiles directory to see if there are files in any of
the subdirectories (queues). If so, the corresponding qrunner isn't
running unless the messages are in the shunt queue, in which case, the
reason is in Mailman's error log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ken at lookaroundcornwall.com  Thu Mar 22 16:43:16 2007
From: ken at lookaroundcornwall.com (lookaroundcornwall.com)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:43:16 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disappearing posts [was: (no subject)]
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007032208031602814dc7e189@msapiro>
Message-ID: <014001c76c98$cee08d40$0202a8c0@P4Tower>

One likely cause is that Mailman's qrunners (IncomingRunner in
particular) are not running.

Spot on Mark, thanks. Next time we have a server outage I'll try and
remember that one. Is there any way to have it happen automatically?

Ken

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 21/03/2007
07:52
 


From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Thu Mar 22 18:03:01 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:03:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble migrating a list
Message-ID: <200703221303.01888.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

I'm resending this one.  Can anyone help?

I have migrated a list from an old installation (2.1.5) to a new machine 
(running 2.1.8). ?It appears that the move was successful since I can access 
its page at:

http://mailman.domain.com/mailman/admin/<listname>

But it does not show up on the main admin page:

http://mailman.domain.com/mailman/admin

This is the procedure I used for the move:

cd /var/spool/mailman/lists
cp -pr $OLD_MAILMAN/lists/<listname> .
withlist -l -r fix_url <listname>
cd ../archives/private
cp -rp $OLD_MAILMAN/archives/private/<listname>.mbox/ .
cleanarch -n < <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox
cleanarch < <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox > tmp
cp tmp <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox
arch --wipe <listname>

There are no errors in mailman/logs.

Thanks,

Pedro

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Thu Mar 22 18:13:04 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:13:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble migrating a list
In-Reply-To: <200703221303.01888.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
References: <200703221303.01888.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20070322171304.GB26466@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Peter (pmatulis at sympatico.ca):
> I'm resending this one.  Can anyone help?
> 
> I have migrated a list from an old installation (2.1.5) to a new machine 
> (running 2.1.8). ?It appears that the move was successful since I can access 
> its page at:
> 
> http://mailman.domain.com/mailman/admin/<listname>
> 
> But it does not show up on the main admin page:
> 
> http://mailman.domain.com/mailman/admin

Is the list public?


-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Mentally update my CV, paying special attention to the bits
about how to say "Was Fired For Being A Prat" in a positive light.
              -- Eric the Read's bad day

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Mar 22 18:14:45 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:14:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble migrating a list
In-Reply-To: <200703221303.01888.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
References: <200703221303.01888.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200703221715.l2MHElie004608@unreal.eroded.org>

Peter wrote:
>I'm resending this one.  Can anyone help?
>
>I have migrated a list from an old installation (2.1.5) to a new machine
>(running 2.1.8).  It appears that the move was successful since I can access
>its page at:
>
>http://mailman.domain.com/mailman/admin/<listname>
>
>But it does not show up on the main admin page:
>
>http://mailman.domain.com/mailman/admin
>
>This is the procedure I used for the move:
>
>cd /var/spool/mailman/lists
>cp -pr $OLD_MAILMAN/lists/<listname> .
>withlist -l -r fix_url <listname>
>cd ../archives/private
>cp -rp $OLD_MAILMAN/archives/private/<listname>.mbox/ .
>cleanarch -n < <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox
>cleanarch < <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox > tmp
>cp tmp <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox
>arch --wipe <listname>
>
>There are no errors in mailman/logs.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

If you want to see it on the main page, the list must be advertised.

Go to the list's admin page, go to Privacy Options and set advertised = yes.

That should do it.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mike.maughan at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 18:31:15 2007
From: mike.maughan at gmail.com (Mike Maughan)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:31:15 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trapping posts with no subject
Message-ID: <fde304e80703221031w70086e6ek2fcf2537765f4c51@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,

I am aggravated by a few idle list posters who consistently refuse to put in
a subject in their posts, and I would like to 'encourage' them to mend their
ways :)

I've tried putting a spam rule as per the faq, trapping subject containing
.*(no subject) but no workie.

The cases I'd like to trap are:

   1. empty subject
   2. (no subject)
   3. (no_subject)

Is there an easy way?  Am I (as has been known on occasion :) missing
something obvious?

-- 
Regards, Mike

From ken at lookaroundcornwall.com  Thu Mar 22 18:50:09 2007
From: ken at lookaroundcornwall.com (lookaroundcornwall.com)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:50:09 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts with no subject
Message-ID: <014a01c76caa$88c88030$0202a8c0@P4Tower>

Hi Mike,
 
It wasn't laziness, just an oversight, which I corrected in subsequent
posts. Sorry if I aggravated you.

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 21/03/2007
07:52
 

From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Thu Mar 22 19:01:52 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:01:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble migrating a list
In-Reply-To: <200703221715.l2MHElie004608@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <200703221303.01888.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
	<200703221715.l2MHElie004608@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <200703221401.52230.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

Le Jeudi 22 Mars 2007 13:14, Dragon a ?crit?:
> Peter wrote:
> >I'm resending this one.  Can anyone help?
> >
> >I have migrated a list from an old installation (2.1.5) to a new machine
> >(running 2.1.8).  It appears that the move was successful since I can
> > access its page at:
> >
> >http://mailman.domain.com/mailman/admin/<listname>
> >
> >But it does not show up on the main admin page:
> >
> >http://mailman.domain.com/mailman/admin
> >
> >This is the procedure I used for the move:
> >
> >cd /var/spool/mailman/lists
> >cp -pr $OLD_MAILMAN/lists/<listname> .
> >withlist -l -r fix_url <listname>
> >cd ../archives/private
> >cp -rp $OLD_MAILMAN/archives/private/<listname>.mbox/ .
> >cleanarch -n < <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox
> >cleanarch < <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox > tmp
> >cp tmp <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox
> >arch --wipe <listname>
> >
> >There are no errors in mailman/logs.
>
> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
> If you want to see it on the main page, the list must be advertised.
>
> Go to the list's admin page, go to Privacy Options and set advertised =
> yes.

Problem.

I accessed the list's admin page [I don't know how it worked with the password 
I gave (it was the one I use for my other test lists)] and any links I choose 
(like the privacy options; to make it advertised) does not use the correct 
URL.  It uses localhost.my.domain.  I thought this would have been fixed by 
my migration method (fix_url).

Also, my migration procedure was ok for one list but I have about 60 to 
migrate.  Any tips on such a mass migration?

Thank you very much,

Pedro

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 19:14:41 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:14:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing banned list members
In-Reply-To: <032220071748.20882.4602C17B000A87AC0000519222064246130707070705070A9D@comcast.net>
References: <032220071748.20882.4602C17B000A87AC0000519222064246130707070705070A9D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00703221114s26791cf7pe490df3c05cd5074@mail.gmail.com>

First off, please keep all replies on list, so that other folk can
give their input.

Check Mailman's 'vette' log to see why her posts are being held.

On 3/22/07, reikiiii at comcast.net <reikiiii at comcast.net> wrote:
> I checked everything you said... I found her email, but it is listed under Sender Filters in "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted." She is not listed in the subscribers at all, and the list still won't accept her. Any further suggestions?
> Thank you!
> --
> Blessings,
> Toni


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From mike.maughan at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 19:27:56 2007
From: mike.maughan at gmail.com (Mike Maughan)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:27:56 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trapping posts with no subject
In-Reply-To: <fde304e80703221031w70086e6ek2fcf2537765f4c51@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fde304e80703221031w70086e6ek2fcf2537765f4c51@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fde304e80703221127g6eeac1a0k891c0c64e0d8c1d9@mail.gmail.com>

JIC anyone was unclear, these problems are on _my_ lists, not on here :)

- Mike

On 22/03/07, Mike Maughan <mike.maughan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I am aggravated by a few idle list posters who consistently refuse to put
> in a subject in their posts, and I would like to 'encourage' them to mend
> their ways :)
>
> I've tried putting a spam rule as per the faq, trapping subject containing
> .*(no subject) but no workie.
>
> The cases I'd like to trap are:
>
>    1. empty subject
>    2. (no subject)
>    3. (no_subject)
>
> Is there an easy way?  Am I (as has been known on occasion :) missing
> something obvious?
>
> --
> Regards, Mike

From reikiiii at comcast.net  Thu Mar 22 19:49:38 2007
From: reikiiii at comcast.net (reikiiii at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:49:38 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing banned list members
Message-ID: <032220071849.17538.4602CFC2000954A50000448222069984990707070705070A9D@comcast.net>

I checked everything you said... I found her email, but it is listed under 
Sender Filters in "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be 
automatically accepted." She is not listed in the subscribers at all, and the 
list still won't accept her. Any further suggestions?
 Thank you!

Where do I find the 'vette' log?

--
Blessings,
Toni

From washakie at juno.com  Thu Mar 22 19:59:05 2007
From: washakie at juno.com (Washakie Wyoming)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:59:05 GMT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions, mailman, postfix, virtual .ugh!
Message-ID: <20070322.115931.774.94136@webmail21.lax.untd.com>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20070322/4661ac30/attachment.asc 

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 20:10:50 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:10:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing banned list members
In-Reply-To: <032220071849.17538.4602CFC2000954A50000448222069984990707070705070A9D@comcast.net>
References: <032220071849.17538.4602CFC2000954A50000448222069984990707070705070A9D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00703221210m57b486d1jc19b6864588731f3@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/22/07, reikiiii at comcast.net <reikiiii at comcast.net> wrote:
> Where do I find the 'vette' log?

To get to the vette log, you need shell access to the server. Where
the log is actually located on the filesystem is dependent upon your
Distribution and how mailman was installed. One way to find it is to
run: 'locate vette,' or 'find / | grep -i vette'

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From amiller at gravity.phys.uwm.edu  Thu Mar 22 19:41:18 2007
From: amiller at gravity.phys.uwm.edu (Adam Miller)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:41:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checkdbs error
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0703221336070.19982@gannon.phys.uwm.edu>

Hi,

I'm getting some errors with a mailman cron job is running.  I am using 
mailman version 2.1.9 on an FC5 i386 box.

/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 203, in ?
     main()
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 104, in main
     discarded = auto_discard(mlist)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 192, in auto_discard
     heldmsgs = mlist.GetHeldMessageIds()
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 143, in 
GetHeldMessageIds
     return self.__getmsgids(HELDMSG)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 138, in __getmsgids
     ids = [k for k, (op, data) in self.__db.items() if op == rtype]
ValueError: too many values to unpack


Any ideas as to what is causing this error and/or how to fix it?  Possibly 
a corrupt pickle?  Thanks!!

Cheers,
Adam Miller

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Mar 22 23:51:50 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:51:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, AOL and server names
In-Reply-To: <46028E66.8000205@e-aa.org>
References: <45FFDABD.6030306@e-aa.org>
	<p06240505c225e505a462@[10.0.1.201]> <46028E66.8000205@e-aa.org>
Message-ID: <p06240501c228b8cf46c2@[10.0.1.201]>

At 9:10 AM -0500 3/22/07, Dennis Morgan wrote:

>  The percentage of our mail that AOL rejects is just huge - around 90% -
>  I was hoping that maybe someone could see something that we were doing
>  wrong. It'd be nice to get the rejection rate down.

If you can show us complete copies of the bounces being generated, we 
might be able to help you figure out what's going wrong and what 
might be able to be done to fix it.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Fri Mar 23 00:57:30 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:57:30 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, AOL and server names
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00703220748u54f71af7kd76c23052147e4f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200703222357.l2MNvUcc010390@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Patrick Bogen has said:
> 
> To reiterate what Brad said, please see FAQ 3.42. It specifically
> talks about this issue.
> 
> On 3/22/07, Dennis Morgan <dennis at e-aa.org> wrote:
> > The percentage of our mail that AOL rejects is just huge - around 90% -
> > I was hoping that maybe someone could see something that we were doing
> > wrong. It'd be nice to get the rejection rate down.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > Brad Knowles wrote:
> > > See also FAQ 3.42.
> 
FAQ 3.42 pretty well covers the issues we see on our installation.  
One change that I don't see in the FAQ is to put 
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 5
in mm_cfg.py.  This may seem absurdly low, compared with the
Defaults.py value.  I originally set it to 10 and had mails to verizon
being deferred until they were time-flushed from the Sendmail queue
(five days).  Switching to individualized posts for non-digest members
made a very obvious difference in deferrals, but the pain persisted 
for digests.  

We've simply given up on AOL.  We were getting 5.7.1 security bounces
with a link to a message that made clear that they were blacklisting
us.  The pattern we saw doesn't correlate with their claims of "users
reporting us as spam."  We were down to one AOL user, a paraplegic,
and ended up having a list member drive to get him set up on another
service.   

Hank



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 01:00:02 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:00:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disappearing posts [was: (no subject)]
In-Reply-To: <014001c76c98$cee08d40$0202a8c0@P4Tower>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703221700020296ded11bea@msapiro>

lookaroundcornwall.com wrote:
>
>Spot on Mark, thanks. Next time we have a server outage I'll try and
>remember that one. Is there any way to have it happen automatically?


If you installed Mailman from source, there is a shell script
scripts/mailman in the Mailman's install directory which has
instructions in it regarding how to install it in /etc/init.d. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node42.html>

There should be a version of this script in 'packaged' Mailman versions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mike.maughan at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 01:12:28 2007
From: mike.maughan at gmail.com (Mike Maughan)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:12:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trapping posts with no subject, and an apology
Message-ID: <fde304e80703221712o364745adp34883932c742771b@mail.gmail.com>

I posted earlier about problems with "(no subject)" postings to my lists,
not complaining about such to  mailman-users, but I wasn't very clear in
what I said so my apologies to anyone who may have been offended.

To restate my problem and renew the request for help (if anyone is still
talking to me, that is :):

I run a number of lists of which two are precursors to wikis, that is the
message threads are copied into the discussion areas of wikis for analysis
and distillation.  One day when I grow up I'm hoping to automate this but
for now it means me copying & pasting.

A couple of recalcitrants continue to post without subjects, which makes my
transcription task that much more difficult.  I've asked them nicely, both
privately & publicly, but it seems they are just too darned idle to bother.

Accordingly, I would like to 'encourage' them to mend their ways by trapping
such posts and rejecting them.  I've tried putting a spam rule as per the
faq, trapping "subject containing .*(no subject)" but no workie.

The cases I'd like to trap are:

   1. empty subject
   2. (no subject)
   3. (no_subject)

Is there an easy way?  Am I (as has been known on occasion :) missing
something obvious?

-- 
Regards, Mike

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 01:33:32 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:33:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trapping posts with no subject, and an apology
In-Reply-To: <fde304e80703221712o364745adp34883932c742771b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032217333205310669fe73@msapiro>

Mike Maughan wrote:
>
>The cases I'd like to trap are:
>
>   1. empty subject
>   2. (no subject)
>   3. (no_subject)
>
>Is there an easy way?  Am I (as has been known on occasion :) missing
>something obvious?


You can trap all 3 of the above cases with a header_filter_rules rule
with the regexp

$subject:\s*(\(no[_ ]subject\))?\s*$

but there is a 4th case which this won't get which is the case where
the message contains no Subject: header at all. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-March/056119.html>
fo more information on how to deal with this case.

See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html> for information about
Python regular expressions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mike.maughan at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 01:48:58 2007
From: mike.maughan at gmail.com (Mike Maughan)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:48:58 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trapping posts with no subject, and an apology
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007032217333205310669fe73@msapiro>
References: <fde304e80703221712o364745adp34883932c742771b@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007032217333205310669fe73@msapiro>
Message-ID: <fde304e80703221748u6c1f8f29ibfd02c73bcc4595d@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks again, Mark.

I've implemented the recommendations; now all I have to do is decipher your
regex :))

- Mike

On 23/03/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Mike Maughan wrote:
> >
> >The cases I'd like to trap are:
> >
> >   1. empty subject
> >   2. (no subject)
> >   3. (no_subject)
> >
> >Is there an easy way?  Am I (as has been known on occasion :) missing
> >something obvious?
>
>
> You can trap all 3 of the above cases with a header_filter_rules rule
> with the regexp
>
> $subject:\s*(\(no[_ ]subject\))?\s*$
>
> but there is a 4th case which this won't get which is the case where
> the message contains no Subject: header at all. See
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-March/056119.html>
> fo more information on how to deal with this case.
>
> See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html> for information about
> Python regular expressions.
>

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 02:09:45 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:09:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trapping posts with no subject, and an apology
In-Reply-To: <fde304e80703221748u6c1f8f29ibfd02c73bcc4595d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032218094503430669fdc4@msapiro>

Mike Maughan wrote:
>
>I've implemented the recommendations; now all I have to do is decipher your
>regex :))

<snip>
>> $subject:\s*(\(no[_ ]subject\))?\s*$


Ooops! It's wrong. It should be

^subject:\s*(\(no[_ ]subject\))?\s*$

The original wouldn't match anything.

It says:

^ - the start of the line
subject:
\s* - zero or more white space characters
( - beginning of a group (this is why your original try didn't work)
\( - a literal (
no
[_ ] - a single underscore or space (character class)
subject
\) - a literal )
) - end of the group
? - zero or one occurrences of the preceding re, in this case what's
    in the parentheses
\s* - zero or more white space characters (doesn't match \n)
$ - the end of the line

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mike.maughan at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 02:28:53 2007
From: mike.maughan at gmail.com (Mike Maughan)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 01:28:53 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trapping posts with no subject, and an apology
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007032218094503430669fdc4@msapiro>
References: <fde304e80703221748u6c1f8f29ibfd02c73bcc4595d@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007032218094503430669fdc4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <fde304e80703221828r2159f628ibc28466ff5494238@mail.gmail.com>

On 23/03/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
>
> ^subject:\s*(\(no[_ ]subject\))?\s*$
>
>
Thanks for the fix & the explanation.  Do you know, that's the first time
I've actually understood a pattern search regex?  Wunderbar! :)
-- 
Regards, Mike

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 04:01:18 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 20:01:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing banned list members
In-Reply-To: <032120071649.7769.4601622D000ECA4600001E5922135753330707070705070A9D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703222001180140a73952fe@msapiro>

reikiiii at comcast.net wrote:
>
>Can anyone tell me in plain english how to do this? I am not experienced in programming. Thanks!


Go to the admin interface web pages and go to the Privacy
options...->Subscription rules page and look at the "List of addresses
which are banned from membership in this mailing list" (ban_list).

There you will find either this person's address or a regular
expression that matches this address. If it's a simple address, just
remove it from the list and "Submit Your Changes".

If it is a regular expression pattern that could match many addresses
(say for example something like "^.*@example\.com$" which matches
every address @example.com), you probably should explain this to
whoever is asking you to remove the ban, and ask what to do.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 04:10:11 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 20:10:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists.
In-Reply-To: <4601681F.3050200@kni.univ.szczecin.pl>
References: <4601681F.3050200@kni.univ.szczecin.pl>
Message-ID: <46034513.8060906@value.net>

Lech Karol PawBaszek wrote:
> 
> What i would like is to have "true lists" only at the lowest level. But 
> be able to accept incoming mail at the highest level and not to worry 
> about accepting the same mail on the other lists (if it is not from my 
> company domainname).
> 
> I've tried acceptable_aliases variable, but it doesn't work if the lower 
> level lists doesn't have sender on a member list (which is ok). So i 
> tried to use spam filters and header_filter_rules variable and set one 
> rule matching "announce" at "announce.poland" level with action 
> "accept", but when generic_nonmember_action variable is set to hold 
> (members only list) - message still hits "on hold" queue, and when 
> generic_action_variable is set to accept (anyone can send emails) 
> messages pass through spam filters anyway.


You can't use header_filter_rules because the 'accept' action only says 
'pass the header filter'. It doesn't say 'unconditionally accept the 
message'.


Is there any way to tell
> mailman to accept message matching header (like accept_these_nonmembers 
> but looking at recepient address oslt) even if the list is "members only"?


See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.069.htp> 
for our advice on how to set this up.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 04:20:17 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 20:20:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-request who command
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00703211534j4d9b5f8cu18ca8fc3347bb6d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032220201709539dc5592a@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 3/21/07, Jennifer Oxelson <oxelson at unidata.ucar.edu> wrote:
>> The issue is I can send the 'who' email command with the admin password
>> from /*any*/ email address (not even subscribed) and get the roster...
>> is this right?   Wouldn't it be better if the 'who' command only worked
>> for email addresses corresponding to list admins/moderators when the
>> list roster is configured to be only available to these privileged
>> users?  (Or am I being overly paranoid?)
>
>Checking the email address would only add a sense of security, not any
>real security. Email addresses are *easily* forged. Trivially forged,
>even.
>
>So, this might actually even be a bad thing, since it will give a
>false sense of security while actually adding none.


Patrick is correct, but the real issue here is that by definition a
Mailman list admin or moderator is anyone who knows the respective
password. Thus, by providing the password, you have identified
yourself as a list admin regardless of your email address (or the
address you want the list sent to).

See FAQ's
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.060.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.027.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 04:36:31 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 20:36:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble migrating a list
In-Reply-To: <200703221401.52230.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032220363107960669ff7b@msapiro>

Peter wrote:
>
>I accessed the list's admin page [I don't know how it worked with the password 
>I gave (it was the one I use for my other test lists)] and any links I choose 
>(like the privacy options; to make it advertised) does not use the correct 
>URL.  It uses localhost.my.domain.  I thought this would have been fixed by 
>my migration method (fix_url).


fix_url didn't do the right thing because your settings for
DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST are not correct. You probably
have other add_virtualhost() issues as well.

If in fact, 'localhost.my.domain' is the correct DEFAULT_URL_HOST, then
you need to specify the host you want to fix_url with the --urlhost=
option.

Or possibly the problem is with DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN.

This is also why your lists don't appear on the overview.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 05:07:14 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:07:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions, mailman, postfix, virtual .ugh!
In-Reply-To: <20070322.115931.774.94136@webmail21.lax.untd.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032221071401090669fcbb@msapiro>

Washakie Wyoming wrote:
>
>I set up a virtual domain, and everything works with postfix alone. In
>main.cf:
>virtual_alias_domains = my.virt.domain
>virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
>
>### Now, changes for Mailman:
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,
>        hash:/etc/mailman/aliases  #if I comment this I have no problems
>
>Then I added in mm_cfg.py:
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['my.virt.domain']
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>
>NOTE: One point of confusion, according to the GNU manual, there should
>also be a virtual-mailman.db, but I don't see how, or know how to
>create this??? genaliases only creates /etc/mailman/aliases....


genaliases only creates virtual-mailman if you have one or more lists
whose host_name attribute (email domain) is in
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS.



>PERMISSIONS:
>in /etc/mailman:
>-rwxrwxr-x   1 root    mailman  1843 Mar 22 19:16 aliases
>-rwxrwxr-x   1 mailman mailman 12288 Mar 22 19:16 aliases.db
>
>in /etc:
>-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman mailman   2914 Mar 22 16:41 aliases
>-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman mailman  12288 Mar 22 19:26 aliases.db
>
>running check_perms produces no errors. 
>
>I get the following errors in maillog:
>Mar 22 19:48:26 localhost postfix/smtpd[8546]: fatal: open database
>/etc/mailman/aliases.db: Permission denied


Since -rwxrwxr-x clearly allows access, I'm guessing this is a SELinux
issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Fri Mar 23 05:09:03 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:09:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble migrating a list
In-Reply-To: <200703221401.52230.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
References: <200703221303.01888.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
	<200703221715.l2MHElie004608@unreal.eroded.org>
	<200703221401.52230.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200703230009.04096.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

Le Jeudi 22 Mars 2007 14:01, Peter a ?crit?:
> Le Jeudi 22 Mars 2007 13:14, Dragon a ?crit?:
> > Peter wrote:
> > >I'm resending this one.  Can anyone help?
> > >
> > >I have migrated a list from an old installation (2.1.5) to a new machine
> > >(running 2.1.8).  It appears that the move was successful since I can
> > > access its page at:
> > >
> > >http://mailman.domain.com/mailman/admin/<listname>
> > >
> > >But it does not show up on the main admin page:
> > >
> > >http://mailman.domain.com/mailman/admin
> > >
> > >This is the procedure I used for the move:
> > >
> > >cd /var/spool/mailman/lists
> > >cp -pr $OLD_MAILMAN/lists/<listname> .
> > >withlist -l -r fix_url <listname>
> > >cd ../archives/private
> > >cp -rp $OLD_MAILMAN/archives/private/<listname>.mbox/ .
> > >cleanarch -n < <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox
> > >cleanarch < <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox > tmp
> > >cp tmp <listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox
> > >arch --wipe <listname>
> > >
> > >There are no errors in mailman/logs.
> >
> > ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
> >
> > If you want to see it on the main page, the list must be advertised.
> >
> > Go to the list's admin page, go to Privacy Options and set advertised =
> > yes.
>
> Problem.
>
> I accessed the list's admin page [I don't know how it worked with the
> password I gave (it was the one I use for my other test lists)] and any
> links I choose (like the privacy options; to make it advertised) does not
> use the correct URL.  It uses localhost.my.domain.  I thought this would
> have been fixed by my migration method (fix_url).

I fixed the URL problem (I forgot the vital option: the URL) except I see that 
for one link the URL did not change.  In the archives "More information about 
this list" is still the old one.

Any ideas why this may be?

Pedro

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 05:41:02 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:41:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble migrating a list
In-Reply-To: <200703230009.04096.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032221410206090669fea3@msapiro>

Peter wrote:
>
>I fixed the URL problem (I forgot the vital option: the URL) except I see that
>for one link the URL did not change.  In the archives "More information about
>this list" is still the old one.
>
>Any ideas why this may be?


Those links are built when the archive pages are created. If the only
bad links are on the table of content pages and the current period
(month) index page, they should be fixed when a message is archived.
If older index pages have bad links and these are a concern, you have
to rebuild the archive with bin/arch --wipe (perhaps after running
bin/cleanarch to check the .mbox), or fix the links manually.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 05:57:23 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:57:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checkdbs error
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0703221336070.19982@gannon.phys.uwm.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032221572300000669fc57@msapiro>

Adam Miller wrote:
>
>I'm getting some errors with a mailman cron job is running.  I am using 
>mailman version 2.1.9 on an FC5 i386 box.
>
>/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 203, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 104, in main
>     discarded = auto_discard(mlist)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 192, in auto_discard
>     heldmsgs = mlist.GetHeldMessageIds()
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 143, in 
>GetHeldMessageIds
>     return self.__getmsgids(HELDMSG)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 138, in __getmsgids
>     ids = [k for k, (op, data) in self.__db.items() if op == rtype]
>ValueError: too many values to unpack
>
>
>Any ideas as to what is causing this error and/or how to fix it?  Possibly 
>a corrupt pickle?  Thanks!!


Yes. It seems there is at least one bad entry in a
lists/<listname>/request.pck file. If you can identify which one, you
can just remove it or replace it with an 'empty' (24 byte long) one.
You can probably identify which one by visiting the admindb page for
each list in turn until you hit a bug or wierd result.

Or maybe you can see a problem with bin/dumpdb.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tina at onlinebusinessmanager.com  Fri Mar 23 05:17:40 2007
From: tina at onlinebusinessmanager.com (Tina Forsyth)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:17:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how do i edit the digest email?
Message-ID: <005e01c76d02$334d88f0$6401a8c0@lt008>

hi there,
 
i want to edit part of the email that gets sent out as a daily digest...
specifically to remove the text at the top with all the list details about
how to send to the list, etc... i'm using this as an 'announcement only'
list and i don't want people to be able to access that information.
 
ive searched all through the faqs and other documentation and couldn't find
any reference to this.
 
hoping someone on the list can point me in the right direction? im using
mailman that came with our hostgator account, version 2.1.9
 
thanks!
 
Tina Forsyth
Tired of working so hard? Get the '5 Keys to Making the Internet Work for
You'
www.OnlineBusinessManager.com <http://www.onlinebusinessmanager.com/> 

27 Unexpected Ways to Create What Really Matters for Business Owners
 <http://www.moneymeaningandbeyond.com/> www.MoneyMeaningandBeyond.com

 

From washakie at juno.com  Fri Mar 23 09:28:23 2007
From: washakie at juno.com (Washakie Wyoming)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 08:28:23 GMT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] install issues - missing owner??
Message-ID: <20070323.002912.2325.2561838@webmail23.lax.untd.com>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20070323/1fa45d76/attachment.asc 

From Marco.vanKammen at springer.com  Fri Mar 23 09:38:16 2007
From: Marco.vanKammen at springer.com (Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 09:38:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mm-handler user unknown problem
References: <D682F5E0D03C4447ACAFE9FE7779606B045B51D1@ID309.springer-sbm.com>
Message-ID: <D682F5E0D03C4447ACAFE9FE7779606B045B578C@ID309.springer-sbm.com>

No reply on this question yet..

Is there no'one out there who can give me some pointers???

Thanks! 


-	
Marco van Kammen
Springer
Unix / Exchange System Manager 
Floor Manager / Postmaster
-	
Van Godewijckstraat 30 | 3311 GX
Office Number: 05E21 
P.O. Box 17 | 3300 AA
Dordrecht | The Netherlands 	
tel	 +31 (0) 78 657 6446	
fax	 +31 (0) 78 657 6302	
Marco.vanKammen at springer.com
www.springer.com 
-	
 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+marco.vankammen=springer.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+marco.vankammen=springer.com at python.org]
On Behalf Of Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 4:22 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mm-handler user unknown problem

Dear All,
 
Using:
 
Red Hat Linux release 9
Mailman 2.1.9
Sendmail 8.12.8
 
First of all i'm a total sendmail noob so please be nice :-D I've been
scrolling through FAQ's mailinglists etc all day and found many people
have this problem but didn't find a really good solution for this.. Most
problems seem to be related to people forgetting to setup aliases, but
in this case i'm using mm-handler which as far as i understand overrides
the use of aliases and only needs some address in the virtusertable. (if
address doesn't exist in virtusertable then goto mm-handler and get
specific mailinglist address)
 
I got everything up and running, made the test list, received the mails
from the test list, was able to subscribe people to it using the
webinterface, the newly subscribed people also received the mails.
 
Problem is when trying to send a mail to the new mailinglist.
 
550 5.1.1 <testlist at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com>... User unknown
 
I followed all the instructions according to the README.mm-handler file.
 
My handler file looks like this:
 
/etc/mail/mm-handler
 
-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman  mailman      5951 Mar 20 13:39 mm-handler
 
The link to mailman:
 
[root at senldogo0013 mail]# cd /etc/smrsh/
[root at senldogo0013 smrsh]# ll
total 5
drwxr-xr-x    2 root     root         1024 Mar 20 10:22 .
drwxr-xr-x   50 root     root         4096 Mar 20 15:21 ..
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           31 Mar 20 10:22 mailman ->
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
 
The appropriate parts of the sendmail.cf (at least i think these are
only the appropriate ones concerning this problem)
 
# Mailer table (overriding domains)
Kmailertable hash -o /etc/mail/mailertable.db
 
# Virtual user table (maps incoming users) Kvirtuser hash -o
/etc/mail/virtusertable.db
 
Mmailman,       P=/etc/mail/mm-handler, F=rDFMhlqSu, U=mailman:mailman,
                S=EnvFromL, R=EnvToL/HdrToL,
                A=mm-handler $h $u
 
Mailertable looks like this:
 
senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com   mailman:senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com
 
And the Virtusertable like this:
 
mailman at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com
support_smarthost at springer-sbm.com
mailman-owner at senldogo0013.sprinegr-sbm.com
support_smarthost at springer-sbm.com
MAILER-DAEMON at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com
support_smarthost at springer-sbm.com
postmaster at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com
support_smarthost at springer-sbm.com
webmaster at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com
support_smarthost at springer-sbm.com
abuse at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com
support_smarthost at springer-sbm.com
root at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com
support_smarthost at springer-sbm.com
 
When sending a test message to either of the above mentioned addresses
works which indicates that the virtusertable file is active and working.
When trying to send a test message to a invalid or valid mailinglist
address i get the user unknown message back from sendmail and not the
error message i'm expecting from the mm-handler which indicates to me
that sendmail isn't properly seeing the mm-handler.
 
My main concern is the sendmail.cf, i first edited the os delivered
sendmail.mc file did some cut pasting from the mailman.mc file then
generated the sendmail.cf file using the proper m4 method. Maybe someone
can give me a basic sendmail.cf which can be easily used for the basic
mail & mailman functionality cause the mailman.mc file which comes with
the package can't be used cause that one gives lots of errors. 
 
Thanks for the help!
 
 
-	
Marco van Kammen
Springer
Unix / Exchange System Manager
Floor Manager / Postmaster
-	
Van Godewijckstraat 30 | 3311 GX
Office Number: 05E21
P.O. Box 17 | 3300 AA
Dordrecht | The Netherlands 	
tel	 +31 (0) 78 657 6446	
fax	 +31 (0) 78 657 6302	
Marco.vanKammen at springer.com
www.springer.com <http://www.springer.com/>  
-	
 
 
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From washakie at juno.com  Fri Mar 23 12:09:23 2007
From: washakie at juno.com (Washakie Wyoming)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:09:23 GMT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions, mailman, postfix, virtual .ugh!
Message-ID: <20070323.031003.773.546245@webmail45.lax.untd.com>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20070323/2c5d757e/attachment.pot 

From gcarmichael at shorter.edu  Fri Mar 23 15:03:40 2007
From: gcarmichael at shorter.edu (gcarmichael at shorter.edu)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:03:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail not going to all members
Message-ID: <C229567C.FEA5%gcarmichael@shorter.edu>

I'm running Mailman 2.1.9 and postfix.  A
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members info" shows a list of members.
However, when I send a message, to the list, only one person gets the email.
In the maillog, it shows postfix only trying to send mail to that respective
user and no one else.

Any clues as to what's going on?

Thanks,


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 16:29:49 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 08:29:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how do i edit the digest email?
In-Reply-To: <005e01c76d02$334d88f0$6401a8c0@lt008>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703230829490906b6a536bb@msapiro>

Tina Forsyth wrote:
> 
>i want to edit part of the email that gets sent out as a daily digest...
>specifically to remove the text at the top with all the list details about
>how to send to the list, etc... i'm using this as an 'announcement only'
>list and i don't want people to be able to access that information.
> 
>ive searched all through the faqs and other documentation and couldn't find
>any reference to this.


The digest boilerplate is in the template masthead.txt. See the FAQ at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>
for information on editing templates.

You will probably need the assistance of your host to install an edited
template for your list.

However, if this is an announcement list, why allow digests at all? If
you set Digest options->digestable to No and turn off 'digest' for
your current digest members, you won't care what the digest masthead
says. (You may also need to set digest_is_default to Regular.)

If you are posting so many announcements that digesting is desirable,
perhaps you should consider batching them into fewer posts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 16:45:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 08:45:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] install issues - missing owner??
In-Reply-To: <20070323.002912.2325.2561838@webmail23.lax.untd.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032308454100628a028b47@msapiro>

Washakie Wyoming wrote:
>
>I have two test lists setup, and everything seems to be working find
>through the web - so long as I have my selinux enforcing off (that's
>another issue). However, trying to run the bin/ commands I get the
>following output... anythoughts???
>
>[root at localhost bin]# ./list_lists
>3 matching mailing lists found:
>    Mailman - Mailman site list
>       Test - [no description available]
>      Test1 - [no description available]
>[root at localhost bin]# ./list_members Test1
>washakie at juno.com
>[root at localhost bin]# ./list_members Test
>washakie at juno.com
>[root at localhost bin]# ./list_admins Test
>No such list: Test
>[root at localhost bin]# ./list_admins Test1
>No such list: Test1
>[root at localhost bin]# ./list_owners Test
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./list_owners", line 120, in ?
>    main()
>  File "./list_owners", line 91, in main
>    mlist = MailList(listname, lock=0)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
>    self.Load()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 616, in Load
>    raise Errors.MMUnknownListError
>Mailman.Errors.MMUnknownListError


This is a bug in list_admins and list_owners. list_lists shows you the
list's real_name attribute aka the pretty name, but the actual list
name is all lower case. These scripts should lower case the provided
name as does list_members. They will work if you use 'test' and
'test1' as the names.

Thanks for the report.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 16:57:19 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 08:57:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail not going to all members
In-Reply-To: <C229567C.FEA5%gcarmichael@shorter.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032308571909683fce85db@msapiro>

gcarmichael at shorter.edu wrote:

>I'm running Mailman 2.1.9 and postfix.  A
>"/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members info" shows a list of members.
>However, when I send a message, to the list, only one person gets the email.
>In the maillog, it shows postfix only trying to send mail to that respective
>user and no one else.
>
>Any clues as to what's going on?


The other list members are either digest members or have delivery
disabled.


Try looking at the membership list in the admin interface, or do

/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members --regular --nomail=enabled info

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 17:04:04 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 09:04:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mm-handler user unknown problem
In-Reply-To: <D682F5E0D03C4447ACAFE9FE7779606B045B578C@ID309.springer-sbm.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032309040409533fce85bd@msapiro>

Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL wrote:

>No reply on this question yet..
>
>Is there no'one out there who can give me some pointers???


contrib/README

This directory contains unofficial contributed scripts and extensions
to Mailman.  They are unsupported by the Mailman developers.  If you
have questions or problems with them, please contact the contribution
author directly.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Fri Mar 23 17:31:12 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:31:12 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mm-handler user unknown problem
In-Reply-To: <D682F5E0D03C4447ACAFE9FE7779606B045B578C@ID309.springer-sbm.com>
Message-ID: <200703231631.l2NGVCPn002283@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL has said:
> 
> From: mailman-users-bounces+marco.vankammen=springer.com at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+marco.vankammen=springer.com at python.org]
> On Behalf Of Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 4:22 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mm-handler user unknown problem
> 
> Dear All,
>  
> Using:
>  
> Red Hat Linux release 9
> Mailman 2.1.9
> Sendmail 8.12.8
>  
> First of all i'm a total sendmail noob so please be nice :-D I've been
> scrolling through FAQ's mailinglists etc all day and found many people
> have this problem but didn't find a really good solution for this.. Most
> problems seem to be related to people forgetting to setup aliases, but
> in this case i'm using mm-handler which as far as i understand overrides
> the use of aliases and only needs some address in the virtusertable. (if
> address doesn't exist in virtusertable then goto mm-handler and get
> specific mailinglist address)
>  
If you are new to sendmail, I would strongly suggest not attempting to
use the mm-handler setup for initial setup and test.  There is a
four-step procedure for doing an initial sendmail configuration and 
checkout in the archives at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/msg43689.html

The main.mc statements in that document are correct for Sendmail 8.12
and Sendmail 8.13

This setup presumes that you are installing Mailman on the
incoming/outgoing mail host.  

> I got everything up and running, made the test list, received the mails
> from the test list, was able to subscribe people to it using the
> webinterface, the newly subscribed people also received the mails.
>  
> Problem is when trying to send a mail to the new mailinglist.
>  
> 550 5.1.1 <testlist at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com>... User unknown

This is a fairly clear indication that you do need to install a set of
alias pipes to Mailman.  On a sendmail installation, you do this
manually.  bin/genaliases will produced the needed aliases in the
proper form for sendmail.  You need a full set of aliases for each
list you create.  

It's important to understand that the Mailman aliases are pipes to 
Mailman scripts.  What you are doing is telling the sendmail daemon
for incoming mail to bypass normal sendmail spool handling and,
instead, to pipe the data to the Mailman qrunners.  
>  
I'll snip and skip over your configuration data for mm-handler as I
don't run that configuration on my sites.  I do not know if anyone
reading this mail list is using that configuration.  

For a basic Sendmail-Mailman integration you do not need to 
enable and configure the mailertable and virtusertable features to
support Mailman if you are not using them to support your site
Sendmail configuration for regular user accounts.  
>  
> My main concern is the sendmail.cf, i first edited the os delivered
> sendmail.mc file did some cut pasting from the mailman.mc file then
> generated the sendmail.cf file using the proper m4 method. Maybe someone
> can give me a basic sendmail.cf which can be easily used for the basic
> mail & mailman functionality cause the mailman.mc file which comes with
> the package can't be used cause that one gives lots of errors. 
>  
> Thanks for the help!
>  
I'll assume that by "mailman.mc" you mean "main.mc".  You can start
with the sendmail distribution main.mc file.  The only feature that
Mailman requires that is not enabled by default is smrsh.  
FEATURE(smrsh, /usr/lib/smrsh)dnl

Make sure that is the location of the smrsh executable on your system.
Also make sure that the link in sm.bin points to the correct file.  

I can't vouch for the correctness of the main.mc statements included
in the Mailman distribution contrib directory.  If you get M4 assembly
errors when making the cf files from the mc/m4 files, then you need to
review the statements you are using against the Sendmail information 
in the O'Reilly Sendmail "bat book" and the Sendmail FAQ.  

Most of the statements you will add to the distribution main.mc file
are site-specific.  If you are new to Sendmail, and doing an initial
installation, I'll suggest that you back down to the default Sendmail
configuration, do what is necessary to get it to work with local user
accounts using a simple MUA to test it, then use the 4-step procedure
to integrate Mailman and Sendmail.  

Hank

From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Fri Mar 23 17:38:36 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:38:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fix_url; one old link remains
Message-ID: <200703231238.36238.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

I have migrated a list to a new machine but I see that for *one* link the URL 
did not change. ?In the archives, the link "More information about this list" 
is still the old one.  This particular link appears in many places (on every 
archive page).

Any ideas why this link did not change?

Pedro

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 17:48:53 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 09:48:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fix_url; one old link remains
In-Reply-To: <200703231238.36238.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032309485308430ef899e0@msapiro>

Peter wrote:

>I have migrated a list to a new machine but I see that for *one* link the URL
>did not change. In the archives, the link "More information about this list"
>is still the old one.  This particular link appears in many places (on every
>archive page).
>
>Any ideas why this link did not change?


Answered yesterday. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-March/056254.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From amiller at gravity.phys.uwm.edu  Fri Mar 23 18:46:01 2007
From: amiller at gravity.phys.uwm.edu (Adam Miller)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:46:01 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checkdbs error
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007032221572300000669fc57@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007032221572300000669fc57@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0703231244130.9013@gannon.phys.uwm.edu>

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Adam Miller wrote:
>>
>> I'm getting some errors with a mailman cron job is running.  I am using
>> mailman version 2.1.9 on an FC5 i386 box.
>>
>> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 203, in ?
>>     main()
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 104, in main
>>     discarded = auto_discard(mlist)
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 192, in auto_discard
>>     heldmsgs = mlist.GetHeldMessageIds()
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 143, in
>> GetHeldMessageIds
>>     return self.__getmsgids(HELDMSG)
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 138, in __getmsgids
>>     ids = [k for k, (op, data) in self.__db.items() if op == rtype]
>> ValueError: too many values to unpack
>>
>>
>> Any ideas as to what is causing this error and/or how to fix it?  Possibly
>> a corrupt pickle?  Thanks!!
>
>
> Yes. It seems there is at least one bad entry in a
> lists/<listname>/request.pck file. If you can identify which one, you
> can just remove it or replace it with an 'empty' (24 byte long) one.
> You can probably identify which one by visiting the admindb page for
> each list in turn until you hit a bug or wierd result.
>
> Or maybe you can see a problem with bin/dumpdb.

Thanks!  By removing the request.pck, will that destroy current pending 
requests?

Cheers,
Adam Miller

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 19:22:25 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:22:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail not going to all members
In-Reply-To: <C229865E.FEC6%gcarmichael@shorter.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032311222501569ad20eb5@msapiro>

Grant Carmichael wrote:
>
>The following command printed everyone in the list:
>
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members --regular --nomail=enabled info
>
>This command printed nothing:
>
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members --regular --nomail info
>
>Any other ideas?


Please keep conversations on the list unless there are specific privacy
concerns.


I assumed from your report of the maillog that mailman is sending to
only one address. Please confirm this by looking in Mailman's smtp log
for the "<message id> smtp for n recips completed in n.nnn seconds"
entry and verifying that n=1. Also look in Mailman's smtp-failure log
to confirm there are no smtp time rejects by Postfix.

Assuming all this is OK and Mailman is sending to just one recipient,
other reasons why a delivery enabled regular member won't be sent a
copy include:

The member has nodups set and is addressed explicitly in To:, Cc:,
Resent-To: or Resent-Cc: of the post.

The post is From: the member and the member has not_metoo set.

The member is subscribed to Topics and the post doesn't match. Note
that it is possible for a member to have a residual topic selection
even if the list currently has no topics defined and this can affect
delivery if the member has not opted to receive posts not matching any
topic.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Mar 23 19:31:14 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:31:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail not going to all members
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007032311222501569ad20eb5@msapiro>
References: <C229865E.FEC6%gcarmichael@shorter.edu>
	<PC17602007032311222501569ad20eb5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070323183114.GA25292@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> Please keep conversations on the list unless there are specific privacy
> concerns.

I know it's a contentious issue, but if you want conversations to continue
on the list then you should make the list set the reply-to back to the
list.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Things which do you no good in aviation: Altitude above you.
Runway behind you.  Fuel in the truck.  Half a second ago.
Approach plates in the car. The airspeed you don't have.

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 19:36:52 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:36:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checkdbs error
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0703231244130.9013@gannon.phys.uwm.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020070323113652004600201a82@msapiro>

Adam Miller wrote:
>
>Thanks!  By removing the request.pck, will that destroy current pending 
>requests?


The requests will not be visible in the admindb interface and thus
cannot be handled from there, but presumably that is already the case
because of the error.

The actual pending requests will still be in the pending.pck, and I
_think_ could still be processed by confirmation token.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Mar 23 20:08:43 2007
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:08:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail not going to all members
In-Reply-To: <20070323183114.GA25292@allhats.xcski.com> from Paul Tomblin at
	"Mar 23, 2007 02:31:14 pm"
Message-ID: <20070323190843.A700C7AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Paul Tomblin wrote:
> Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> > Please keep conversations on the list unless there are specific privacy
> > concerns.
> 
> I know it's a contentious issue, but if you want conversations to continue
> on the list then you should make the list set the reply-to back to the
> list.

It would be far easier for the sender to hit "reply all" (as I just did) 
than change the list settings.

YMMV, of course.

z!

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Mar 23 20:42:23 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:42:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trapping posts with no subject, and an  apology
In-Reply-To: <fde304e80703221828r2159f628ibc28466ff5494238@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <fde304e80703221748u6c1f8f29ibfd02c73bcc4595d@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007032218094503430669fdc4@msapiro>
	<fde304e80703221828r2159f628ibc28466ff5494238@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070323194229.TFUZ1606.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>

Mike Maughan sent the message below at 06:28 PM 3/22/2007:
>On 23/03/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > ^subject:\s*(\(no[_ ]subject\))?\s*$
> >
> >
>Thanks for the fix & the explanation.  Do you know, that's the first time
>I've actually understood a pattern search regex?  Wunderbar! :)
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Learning regular expression construction is not an easy thing beyond 
the basic stuff.

A tool I use to help me interactively develop and test complex regex 
strings is the Rx toolkit in Active State's Komodo development 
environment (Komodo handles Perl, Python, PHP, Java and a few other languages).

You can try it free and a personal license is pretty cheap. 
http://www.activestate.com/

I don't work for them, I just love the software because it has made 
my script programming a lot easier.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From Lex at peng.nl  Fri Mar 23 20:58:06 2007
From: Lex at peng.nl (Lex Thoonen)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 19:58:06 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how long does a installation take normally?
Message-ID: <1282989103.20070323195806@peng.nl>

Hi,

I'm renting a linux box, fedora with the Apache/2.0.53. (as a
dedicated server.)

NOW; I looked at installing mailman myself, but rather soon figured I'm
not linux experienced enough to do this. So I asked the tech people at
fasthots.co.uk to take a look. They've been busy for a few days,
working now and then I guess, and just now I received this e-mail from them:

---------------

I've now (with the assistance of my colleagues here) spent
considerably longer than the allocated 30 minutes trying to get this
setup for you, without success. Realistically we are not going to be
able to finish this without incurring additional PES fees, which may
add up to a few hours - please let us know whether you wish us to
carry on with this.

--------------

Now, I would just like to know if this sounds kind of normal to you,
experienced people. "a few hours" is quite a bit of money, hence
my question.

p.s. the server is a 'out of the box' story, hardly any modification
(if at all).

Thanks a lot,

-- 
Lex Thoonen
P?ng Smart Web Design - http://www.peng.nl
Gran Canaria Info     - http://www.gran-canaria-info.com
Hollandse Nieuwe      - http://www.hollandsenieuwe.com
tel. +34 928 88.61.77


From gcarmichael at shorter.edu  Fri Mar 23 21:47:25 2007
From: gcarmichael at shorter.edu (Grant Carmichael)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:47:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail not going to all members
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007032308571909683fce85db@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C229B51D.FF01%gcarmichael@shorter.edu>

Ok,

I'm an idiot.  In /etc/aliases, there was an info alias.  I renamed the info
list to users.

Much better now.

Grant


> From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> Organization: Not Very Much
> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 08:57:19 -0700
> To: <gcarmichael at shorter.edu>, <mailman-users at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mail not going to all members
> 
> gcarmichael at shorter.edu wrote:
> 
>> I'm running Mailman 2.1.9 and postfix.  A
>> "/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members info" shows a list of members.
>> However, when I send a message, to the list, only one person gets the email.
>> In the maillog, it shows postfix only trying to send mail to that respective
>> user and no one else.
>> 
>> Any clues as to what's going on?
> 
> 
> The other list members are either digest members or have delivery
> disabled.
> 
> 
> Try looking at the membership list in the admin interface, or do
> 
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members --regular --nomail=enabled info
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 
> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
> 


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Mar 23 22:02:25 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:02:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how long does a installation take normally?
In-Reply-To: <1282989103.20070323195806@peng.nl>
References: <1282989103.20070323195806@peng.nl>
Message-ID: <20070323210230.QGCY28911.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>

Lex Thoonen sent the message below at 12:58 PM 3/23/2007:
>Hi,
>
>I'm renting a linux box, fedora with the Apache/2.0.53. (as a
>dedicated server.)
>
>NOW; I looked at installing mailman myself, but rather soon figured I'm
>not linux experienced enough to do this. So I asked the tech people at
>fasthots.co.uk to take a look. They've been busy for a few days,
>working now and then I guess, and just now I received this e-mail from them:
>
>---------------
>
>I've now (with the assistance of my colleagues here) spent
>considerably longer than the allocated 30 minutes trying to get this
>setup for you, without success. Realistically we are not going to be
>able to finish this without incurring additional PES fees, which may
>add up to a few hours - please let us know whether you wish us to
>carry on with this.
>
>--------------
>
>Now, I would just like to know if this sounds kind of normal to you,
>experienced people. "a few hours" is quite a bit of money, hence
>my question.
>
>p.s. the server is a 'out of the box' story, hardly any modification
>(if at all).
>
>Thanks a lot,
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I think they are either lazy or incompetent. (Or both).

Mailman from source is extremely easy to install. I think it took me 
all of about 40 minutes to download it, extract it, read the install 
instructions and have my first test list working.

Since you are using a Fedora box, have you tried using yum to install it?

That's even easier, a few seconds for yum to grab an rpm from the 
repository and install it and then maybe 20 minutes to configure 
things and you should be going.


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Mar 23 22:42:26 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:42:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail not going to all members
In-Reply-To: <20070323190843.A700C7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <20070323183114.GA25292@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20070323190843.A700C7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <20070323214226.GB20194@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Carl Zwanzig (cpz at tuunq.com):
> In a flurry of recycled electrons, Paul Tomblin wrote:
> > Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> > > Please keep conversations on the list unless there are specific privacy
> > > concerns.
> > 
> > I know it's a contentious issue, but if you want conversations to continue
> > on the list then you should make the list set the reply-to back to the
> > list.
> 
> It would be far easier for the sender to hit "reply all" (as I just did) 
> than change the list settings.

Except it's not the person replying who is objecting to the replies not
going to the list, it's the person being replied to.  If I accidentally
hit "reply" to a message of Mark, it's not me who's going to complain,
it's Mark.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
There are mushrooms that can survive weeks, months without air or food.
They just dry out and when water comes back, they wake up again.  And call
the helldesk about their password expiring.  -- after Jens Benecke and Tanuki

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 23 22:46:47 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:46:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with format=flowed patch
Message-ID: <PC176020070323144647029653bb77f7@msapiro>

I have been working on a fix for the problem of Mailman's dropping
format=flowed from Content-Type: headers. There is a bug report and a
patch at
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1495122&group_id=103>.

The patch to Scrubber.py has just been revised (revised patch is
attached to the above tracker item).

Scrubber would throw an exception when processing a message with no
text/plain part. If you are using a prior version of this patch,
please get the current version to avoid this problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar 24 00:07:20 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:07:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how long does a installation take normally?
In-Reply-To: <1282989103.20070323195806@peng.nl>
References: <1282989103.20070323195806@peng.nl>
Message-ID: <p06240501c22a0d89ae91@[10.0.1.201]>

At 7:58 PM +0000 3/23/07, Lex Thoonen wrote:

>  I've now (with the assistance of my colleagues here) spent
>  considerably longer than the allocated 30 minutes trying to get this
>  setup for you, without success. Realistically we are not going to be
>  able to finish this without incurring additional PES fees, which may
>  add up to a few hours - please let us know whether you wish us to
>  carry on with this.

IMO, your service provider is incompetent.  If you're using a binary 
packaged version of Mailman, it should take less than a minute for 
the entire process to complete, including downloading the binary 
package.  If you're going to install from source, it might take a few 
more minutes.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar 24 00:28:38 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:28:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail not going to all members
In-Reply-To: <20070323214226.GB20194@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <20070323183114.GA25292@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20070323190843.A700C7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<20070323214226.GB20194@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c22a0d1b94cc@[10.0.1.201]>

At 5:42 PM -0400 3/23/07, Paul Tomblin wrote:

>  Except it's not the person replying who is objecting to the replies not
>  going to the list, it's the person being replied to.  If I accidentally
>  hit "reply" to a message of Mark, it's not me who's going to complain,
>  it's Mark.

The definitive answer is FAQ 3.48.

I shall not further flagellate this deceased equine.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From mwheeler at startext.co.uk  Sat Mar 24 00:28:59 2007
From: mwheeler at startext.co.uk (Martin Wheeler)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 23:28:59 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how long does a installation take normally?
In-Reply-To: <1282989103.20070323195806@peng.nl>
References: <1282989103.20070323195806@peng.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0703232307270.17950@chaucer.startext.demon.co.uk>

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007, Lex Thoonen wrote:

> I'm renting a linux box, fedora with the Apache/2.0.53. (as a
> dedicated server.)

Fair enough.  (You'ld've been better off with Debian, but ... )

> NOW; I looked at installing mailman myself, but rather soon figured I'm
> not linux experienced enough to do this. So I asked the tech people at
> fasthots.co.uk to take a look. They've been busy for a few days,

Wha-a-a-t ?

Fedora is a pig if you want to add any new software, I know -- but that is
just plain ridiculous.
Just WTF are they doing?


> working now and then I guess, and just now I received this e-mail from them:
 . . .
> Now, I would just like to know if this sounds kind of normal to you,
> experienced people. "a few hours" is quite a bit of money, hence
> my question.

PERSONAL OPINION

It sounds to me very much that you're dealing with a bunch of clueless
commercials -- box resellers who don't know what they're doing and hoping
to get their punters to pay for their own learning curve.

For me, installing mailman is a 5-minute job.  No more.  Actually setting
up a new list usually takes me longer than installing the mailman software
in the first place.

Just my 2p's worth.

[And personally, I'm with bytemark.co.uk]

YMMV.
-- 
Martin Wheeler   -   00 44 1458 83-1103    Glastonbury - BA6 9PH - England
mwheeler at startext.co.uk   http://avalonit.net/   http://martinwheeler.net/
GPG pub key : 01269BEB  6CAD BFFB DB11 653E B1B7 C62B  AC93 0ED8 0126 9BEB
      * Share your knowledge. It's a way of achieving immortality. *

From mike.maughan at gmail.com  Sat Mar 24 01:57:55 2007
From: mike.maughan at gmail.com (Mike Maughan)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:57:55 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the name of a list
Message-ID: <fde304e80703231757x443da4bfy538144a90a92f89e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Is it possible to change the name of a list?  I don't just mean the 'public
name' but the list itself?

If not, is it possible to export archives from one list to another?

-- 
Regards, Mike

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 24 02:12:49 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:12:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the name of a list
In-Reply-To: <fde304e80703231757x443da4bfy538144a90a92f89e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703231812490000f94b6e91@msapiro>

Mike Maughan wrote:
>
>Is it possible to change the name of a list?  I don't just mean the 'public
>name' but the list itself?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.070.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From michaelmcandrew at gmail.com  Sat Mar 24 04:24:28 2007
From: michaelmcandrew at gmail.com (Michael McAndrew)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 03:24:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config_list does not finish
Message-ID: <4b58d51b0703232024n2f25a35dl5ecf6d50a31d1a75@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there,

Anyone know why the following command doesn't finish?  It just hangs until I
escape with ctrl+Z

[root at list mailman]# bin/config_list -i vawupdate/scripts/carers.config.txt
carers

Configuration of other lists with similar configuration files works fine.
This seems to be an intermittent problem that occurs on some lists, and i
don't know why.  I am using mailman 2.1.7 on Fedora 4.  Would any extra info
be helpful?  I am stuck.  Thanks a lot.

Michael

Here is the config file:

"""

real_name = 'carers'
moderator = []
description = ''
subject_prefix = '[VAW ]'
archive_private = 0
owner = [' lists at vawcvs.org']
new_member_options = 256
member_moderation_action = 2
member_moderation_notice = ''
default_member_moderation = 0
info = ''
anonymous_list = False
first_strip_reply_to = False
reply_goes_to_list = 0
reply_to_address = ''
umbrella_list = False
umbrella_member_suffix = '-owner'
send_reminders = False
welcome_msg = ''
send_welcome_msg = False
goodbye_msg = ''
send_goodbye_msg = False
admin_immed_notify = False
admin_notify_mchanges = True
respond_to_post_requests = 1
emergency = 0
administrivia = True
max_message_size = 5000
host_name = 'list.vawcvs.org'
include_rfc2369_headers = 1
include_list_post_header = 1
preferred_language = 'en'
available_languages = ['en']
encode_ascii_prefixes = 2
nondigestable = True
msg_header = ''
msg_footer = ''
digestable = True
digest_is_default = False
mime_is_default_digest = False
digest_size_threshhold = 100
digest_send_periodic = True
digest_header = """Daily digest for %(list_name)s"""

digest_footer = """You have been sent this message because you
are subscribed to Voluntary Action Westminster's
%(list_name)s mailing list.

To SUBSCRIBE to or UNSUBCRIBE from any of our
mailing lists, log on to www.vawcvs.org, and
click on 'Mailing lists'.  Alternatively,
send an email to lists at vawcvs.org detailing
the changes you would like us to make and
your request will be dealt with promptly."""
digest_volume_frequency = 1
advertised = True
subscribe_policy = 2
unsubscribe_policy = 1
ban_list = []
private_roster = 2
obscure_addresses = True
accept_these_nonmembers = []
hold_these_nonmembers = []
reject_these_nonmembers = []
discard_these_nonmembers = []
generic_nonmember_action = 3
forward_auto_discards = False
require_explicit_destination = True
acceptable_aliases = ''
max_num_recipients = 0
header_filter_rules = []
bounce_matching_headers = """
# Lines that *start* with a '#' are comments.
to: friend at public.com
message-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu
from: list at listme.com
from: .*@uplinkpro.com"""
bounce_processing = True
bounce_score_threshold = 5.0
bounce_info_stale_after = 7
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 3
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 7
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner = True
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = True
bounce_notify_owner_on_removal = True
archive = True
archive_volume_frequency = 1
nntp_host = ''
linked_newsgroup = ''
gateway_to_news = 0
gateway_to_mail = 0
news_moderation = 0
news_prefix_subject_too = 1
autorespond_postings = 0
autoresponse_postings_text = ''
autorespond_admin = 0
autoresponse_admin_text = ''
autorespond_requests = 0
autoresponse_request_text = ''
autoresponse_graceperiod = 90
filter_content = False
filter_mime_types = ''
pass_mime_types = """multipart/mixed
multipart/alternative
text/plain"""
convert_html_to_plaintext = False
filter_action = 0
topics_enabled = 0
topics_bodylines_limit = 5
new_member_options = 256
member_moderation_action = 2
member_moderation_notice = ''
topics = []

"""

From michaelmcandrew at gmail.com  Sat Mar 24 04:28:38 2007
From: michaelmcandrew at gmail.com (Michael McAndrew)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 04:28:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config_list does not finish
In-Reply-To: <4b58d51b0703232024n2f25a35dl5ecf6d50a31d1a75@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b58d51b0703232024n2f25a35dl5ecf6d50a31d1a75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b58d51b0703232028l4409f737ke47169807dc490af@mail.gmail.com>

Apologies for the extra post, but some useful extra information.
sync_members does not work either.

On 3/24/07, Michael McAndrew <michaelmcandrew at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> Anyone know why the following command doesn't finish?  It just hangs until
> I escape with ctrl+Z
>
> [root at list mailman]# bin/config_list -i
> vawupdate/scripts/carers.config.txt carers
>
> Configuration of other lists with similar configuration files works fine.
> This seems to be an intermittent problem that occurs on some lists, and i
> don't know why.  I am using mailman 2.1.7 on Fedora 4.  Would any extra
> info be helpful?  I am stuck.  Thanks a lot.
>
> Michael
>
> Here is the config file:
>
> """
>
> real_name = 'carers'
> moderator = []
> description = ''
> subject_prefix = '[VAW ]'
> archive_private = 0
> owner = [' lists at vawcvs.org']
> new_member_options = 256
> member_moderation_action = 2
> member_moderation_notice = ''
> default_member_moderation = 0
> info = ''
> anonymous_list = False
> first_strip_reply_to = False
> reply_goes_to_list = 0
> reply_to_address = ''
> umbrella_list = False
> umbrella_member_suffix = '-owner'
> send_reminders = False
> welcome_msg = ''
> send_welcome_msg = False
> goodbye_msg = ''
> send_goodbye_msg = False
> admin_immed_notify = False
> admin_notify_mchanges = True
> respond_to_post_requests = 1
> emergency = 0
> administrivia = True
> max_message_size = 5000
> host_name = 'list.vawcvs.org'
> include_rfc2369_headers = 1
> include_list_post_header = 1
> preferred_language = 'en'
> available_languages = ['en']
> encode_ascii_prefixes = 2
> nondigestable = True
> msg_header = ''
> msg_footer = ''
> digestable = True
> digest_is_default = False
> mime_is_default_digest = False
> digest_size_threshhold = 100
> digest_send_periodic = True
> digest_header = """Daily digest for %(list_name)s"""
>
> digest_footer = """You have been sent this message because you
> are subscribed to Voluntary Action Westminster's
> %(list_name)s mailing list.
>
> To SUBSCRIBE to or UNSUBCRIBE from any of our
> mailing lists, log on to www.vawcvs.org, and
> click on 'Mailing lists'.  Alternatively,
> send an email to lists at vawcvs.org detailing
> the changes you would like us to make and
> your request will be dealt with promptly."""
> digest_volume_frequency = 1
> advertised = True
> subscribe_policy = 2
> unsubscribe_policy = 1
> ban_list = []
> private_roster = 2
> obscure_addresses = True
> accept_these_nonmembers = []
> hold_these_nonmembers = []
> reject_these_nonmembers = []
> discard_these_nonmembers = []
> generic_nonmember_action = 3
> forward_auto_discards = False
> require_explicit_destination = True
> acceptable_aliases = ''
> max_num_recipients = 0
> header_filter_rules = []
> bounce_matching_headers = """
> # Lines that *start* with a '#' are comments.
> to: friend at public.com
> message-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu
> from: list at listme.com
> from: .*@uplinkpro.com"""
> bounce_processing = True
> bounce_score_threshold = 5.0
> bounce_info_stale_after = 7
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 3
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 7
> bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner = True
> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = True
> bounce_notify_owner_on_removal = True
> archive = True
> archive_volume_frequency = 1
> nntp_host = ''
> linked_newsgroup = ''
> gateway_to_news = 0
> gateway_to_mail = 0
> news_moderation = 0
> news_prefix_subject_too = 1
> autorespond_postings = 0
> autoresponse_postings_text = ''
> autorespond_admin = 0
> autoresponse_admin_text = ''
> autorespond_requests = 0
> autoresponse_request_text = ''
> autoresponse_graceperiod = 90
> filter_content = False
> filter_mime_types = ''
> pass_mime_types = """multipart/mixed
> multipart/alternative
> text/plain"""
> convert_html_to_plaintext = False
> filter_action = 0
> topics_enabled = 0
> topics_bodylines_limit = 5
> new_member_options = 256
> member_moderation_action = 2
> member_moderation_notice = ''
> topics = []
>
> """
>

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 24 04:56:38 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:56:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config_list does not finish
In-Reply-To: <4b58d51b0703232024n2f25a35dl5ecf6d50a31d1a75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032320563805157268f089@msapiro>

Michael McAndrew wrote:
>
>Anyone know why the following command doesn't finish?  It just hangs until I
>escape with ctrl+Z


And do you leave it in the background after that or what?


>[root at list mailman]# bin/config_list -i vawupdate/scripts/carers.config.txt carers
>
>Configuration of other lists with similar configuration files works fine.
>This seems to be an intermittent problem that occurs on some lists, and i
>don't know why.  I am using mailman 2.1.7 on Fedora 4.  Would any extra info
>be helpful?  I am stuck.  Thanks a lot.
>
>Michael
>
>Here is the config file:
>
>"""


By placing the input inside triple quotes, you make the whole thing one
string that isn't assigned to anything, so this doesn't have any
effect on the list.


>real_name = 'carers'
>moderator = []
>description = ''
>subject_prefix = '[VAW ]'
>archive_private = 0
>owner = [' lists at vawcvs.org']


I don't know that it does real harm, but I suggest you not have a
leading space in the owner email.


>new_member_options = 256
>member_moderation_action = 2
>member_moderation_notice = ''
>default_member_moderation = 0
>info = ''
>anonymous_list = False
>first_strip_reply_to = False
>reply_goes_to_list = 0
>reply_to_address = ''
>umbrella_list = False
>umbrella_member_suffix = '-owner'
>send_reminders = False
>welcome_msg = ''
>send_welcome_msg = False
>goodbye_msg = ''
>send_goodbye_msg = False
>admin_immed_notify = False
>admin_notify_mchanges = True
>respond_to_post_requests = 1
>emergency = 0
>administrivia = True
>max_message_size = 5000
>host_name = 'list.vawcvs.org'
>include_rfc2369_headers = 1
>include_list_post_header = 1
>preferred_language = 'en'
>available_languages = ['en']
>encode_ascii_prefixes = 2
>nondigestable = True
>msg_header = ''
>msg_footer = ''
>digestable = True
>digest_is_default = False
>mime_is_default_digest = False
>digest_size_threshhold = 100
>digest_send_periodic = True
>digest_header = """Daily digest for %(list_name)s"""


Actually, my comment about one string is wrong. The first string ends
at 'digest_header = '. Then there is some invalid config_list input
and the start of another string.

 
>
>digest_footer = """You have been sent this message because you


which ends here.


>are subscribed to Voluntary Action Westminster's
>%(list_name)s mailing list.
>
>To SUBSCRIBE to or UNSUBCRIBE from any of our
>mailing lists, log on to www.vawcvs.org, and
>click on 'Mailing lists'.  Alternatively,
>send an email to lists at vawcvs.org detailing
>the changes you would like us to make and
>your request will be dealt with promptly."""


and then another string starts here.


>digest_volume_frequency = 1
>advertised = True
>subscribe_policy = 2
>unsubscribe_policy = 1
>ban_list = []
>private_roster = 2
>obscure_addresses = True
>accept_these_nonmembers = []
>hold_these_nonmembers = []
>reject_these_nonmembers = []
>discard_these_nonmembers = []
>generic_nonmember_action = 3
>forward_auto_discards = False
>require_explicit_destination = True
>acceptable_aliases = ''
>max_num_recipients = 0
>header_filter_rules = []
>bounce_matching_headers = """


And ends here, and so on.


># Lines that *start* with a '#' are comments.
>to: friend at public.com
>message-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu
>from: list at listme.com
>from: .*@uplinkpro.com"""
>bounce_processing = True
>bounce_score_threshold = 5.0
>bounce_info_stale_after = 7
>bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 3
>bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 7
>bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner = True
>bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = True
>bounce_notify_owner_on_removal = True
>archive = True
>archive_volume_frequency = 1
>nntp_host = ''
>linked_newsgroup = ''
>gateway_to_news = 0
>gateway_to_mail = 0
>news_moderation = 0
>news_prefix_subject_too = 1
>autorespond_postings = 0
>autoresponse_postings_text = ''
>autorespond_admin = 0
>autoresponse_admin_text = ''
>autorespond_requests = 0
>autoresponse_request_text = ''
>autoresponse_graceperiod = 90
>filter_content = False
>filter_mime_types = ''
>pass_mime_types = """multipart/mixed
>multipart/alternative
>text/plain"""
>convert_html_to_plaintext = False
>filter_action = 0
>topics_enabled = 0
>topics_bodylines_limit = 5
>new_member_options = 256
>member_moderation_action = 2
>member_moderation_notice = ''
>topics = []
>
>"""


The extraneous triple quotes don't explain why config_list hangs. If I
feed that file to config_list, I get

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/config_list", line 362, in ?
    main()
  File "bin/config_list", line 357, in main
    do_input(listname, infile, checkonly, verbose)
  File "bin/config_list", line 263, in do_input
    execfile(infile, globals)
  File "z", line 45
    digest_header = """Daily digest for %(list_name)s"""
                           ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

which is exactly what I expected to get.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 24 05:01:35 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:01:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config_list does not finish
In-Reply-To: <4b58d51b0703232028l4409f737ke47169807dc490af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032321013508287268f1bf@msapiro>

Michael McAndrew wrote:

>Apologies for the extra post, but some useful extra information.
>sync_members does not work either.


The list is locked. That's why the config_list and synch_members hang.
They're waiting on the lock. And control-Zing them to the background
just exacerbates the situation.

You need to first kill all the background processes. Then see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.076.htp>
for info about removing stale locks.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at johmar.com  Sat Mar 24 14:32:37 2007
From: david at johmar.com (David Beaumont)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:32:37 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe links in footers and passwords
Message-ID: <005c01c76e18$e3898720$cffa9056@computername>

Firstly is there a way to globally remove passwords for all users on a list.
They are a pain, users forget them and I trust our users not to need one.

Secondly and alternatively I notice at the foot of each of the mailman
developers emails is an 'unsubscribe' link that takes you to your own
details page in mailman

Eg "Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/david%40johmar.com"

How do you get the individuals email address to be included at the end of
that link?

Thanks

David


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 24 16:51:55 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 08:51:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe links in footers and passwords
In-Reply-To: <005c01c76e18$e3898720$cffa9056@computername>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703240851550515f2486cba@msapiro>

David Beaumont wrote:

>Firstly is there a way to globally remove passwords for all users on a list.
>They are a pain, users forget them and I trust our users not to need one.


No, you can't remove passwords, but you can set everyone's password to,
for example, a single letter.

You would do this with withlist. The following is an example of a
withlist session that would set everyone's password to the letter p.

bin/withlist -l example
Loading list example (locked)
The variable `m' is the example MailList instance
>>> for member in m.getMembers():
...     m.setMemberPassword(member, 'p')
...                       (at this prompt, type <CR> only)
>>>m.Save()
>>>                       (at this prompt, enter control-D)
Unlocking (but not saving) list: example
Finalizing


Note that there is a more elaborate reset_pw.py withlist script in
Mailman's bin directory. It gives everyone a new, random password. You
could modify it by changing the line

        randompw = Utils.MakeRandomPassword()

to for example

        randompw = 'p'

and run it via

bin/withlist -l -r reset_pw listname


>Secondly and alternatively I notice at the foot of each of the mailman
>developers emails is an 'unsubscribe' link that takes you to your own
>details page in mailman
>
>Eg "Unsubscribe:
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/david%40johmar.com"
>
>How do you get the individuals email address to be included at the end of
>that link?


Set

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py

Then in the admin interface set Non-digest options->personalize to Yes
and follow the (Details for personalize) link to see the additional
substitutions that are available when the list is personalized.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pgrayove at monroe.lib.in.us  Sat Mar 24 15:33:04 2007
From: pgrayove at monroe.lib.in.us (Paula Gray-Overtoom)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 10:33:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] owner/moderator requests not sent
Message-ID: <E2603DDA11BFB3488A068587D6217B5852AECD@poe.internal.monroe.lib.in.us>

I have mailman installed with a RedHat rpm, version
mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.5  Everything works great except that the list
owners or moderators do not get any requests when postings are held.
Posters get the message that the posting is waiting for approval.  Any
suggestions on what might be causing this problem would be most
appreciated.

Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paula 
 


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 24 18:09:27 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 10:09:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] owner/moderator requests not sent
In-Reply-To: <E2603DDA11BFB3488A068587D6217B5852AECD@poe.internal.monroe.lib.in.us>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032410092705620a9d420d@msapiro>

Paula Gray-Overtoom wrote:

>I have mailman installed with a RedHat rpm, version
>mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.5  Everything works great except that the list
>owners or moderators do not get any requests when postings are held.
>Posters get the message that the posting is waiting for approval.  Any
>suggestions on what might be causing this problem would be most
>appreciated.


Is admin_immed_notify set to Yes (under Notifications on the General
Options page)?

If so, do you see three entries in Mailman's smtp log similar to the
following from the time the message was held.

>Mar 24 08:50:56 2007 (1570) <mailman.54003.1174755055.1568.listname at example.com> smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.034 seconds
>Mar 24 08:50:56 2007 (1570) <mailman.54004.1174755055.1568.listname at example.com> smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.062 seconds
>Mar 24 08:51:10 2007 (1570) <mailman.54004.1174755055.1568.listname at example.com> smtp for n recips, completed in 0.067 seconds


The first of these is the notice to the poster, the second is the
notice to listname-owner at example.com and the third is the resend of
the listname-owner at example.com message to the actual owners and
moderators.

Note that all three have Mailman gererated Message-Ids and that the 2nd
and third have the same Message-Id which differs from the first only
in that the first numeric field is incremented by 1.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pgrayove at monroe.lib.in.us  Sat Mar 24 18:21:45 2007
From: pgrayove at monroe.lib.in.us (Paula Gray-Overtoom)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:21:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] owner/moderator requests not sent
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007032410092705620a9d420d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <E2603DDA11BFB3488A068587D6217B5852AEDD@poe.internal.monroe.lib.in.us>

I do have admin_immed_notify set to yes.

I am only getting the first two of the entries in the mailman smtp log.
So, the resend to the actual owners isn't happening. 

Thanks,
Paula

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paula Gray-Overtoom
Bloomington, IN


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 1:09 PM
To: Paula Gray-Overtoom; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] owner/moderator requests not sent

Paula Gray-Overtoom wrote:

>I have mailman installed with a RedHat rpm, version
>mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.5  Everything works great except that the list
>owners or moderators do not get any requests when postings are held.
>Posters get the message that the posting is waiting for approval.  Any
>suggestions on what might be causing this problem would be most
>appreciated.


Is admin_immed_notify set to Yes (under Notifications on the General
Options page)?

If so, do you see three entries in Mailman's smtp log similar to the
following from the time the message was held.

>Mar 24 08:50:56 2007 (1570)
<mailman.54003.1174755055.1568.listname at example.com> smtp for 1 recips,
completed in 0.034 seconds
>Mar 24 08:50:56 2007 (1570)
<mailman.54004.1174755055.1568.listname at example.com> smtp for 1 recips,
completed in 0.062 seconds
>Mar 24 08:51:10 2007 (1570)
<mailman.54004.1174755055.1568.listname at example.com> smtp for n recips,
completed in 0.067 seconds


The first of these is the notice to the poster, the second is the
notice to listname-owner at example.com and the third is the resend of
the listname-owner at example.com message to the actual owners and
moderators.

Note that all three have Mailman gererated Message-Ids and that the 2nd
and third have the same Message-Id which differs from the first only
in that the first numeric field is incremented by 1.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 24 18:35:14 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 10:35:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] owner/moderator requests not sent
In-Reply-To: <E2603DDA11BFB3488A068587D6217B5852AEDD@poe.internal.monroe.lib.in.us>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703241035140203f2486b59@msapiro>

Paula Gray-Overtoom wrote:
>
>I am only getting the first two of the entries in the mailman smtp log.
>So, the resend to the actual owners isn't happening.


It seems there is some problem with delivery to the listname-owner
address. Perhaps an alias problem.

What happens if you email the listname-owner address directly?

What's in the MTA log for the mail to listname-owner?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pgrayove at monroe.lib.in.us  Sat Mar 24 18:48:51 2007
From: pgrayove at monroe.lib.in.us (Paula Gray-Overtoom)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:48:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] owner/moderator requests not sent
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703241035140203f2486b59@msapiro>
Message-ID: <E2603DDA11BFB3488A068587D6217B5852AEE4@poe.internal.monroe.lib.in.us>

There could be an alias type problem.  If I send a message to
listname-owner at servername.domain.com the message gets sent to the list
owners, but if I send the message to listname-owner at domain.com it
doesn't get sent.

When the messages aren't going through the MTA log entries are as
follows:

Mar 24 13:38:59 frost sendmail[7404]: l2OHcxQ0007402:
to=<trustees-owner at monroe.lib.in.us>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
mailer=esmtp, pri=231017, relay=mail.monroe.lib.in.us. [66.244.68.18],
dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
<mailman.1.1174757938.7371.trustees at monroe.lib.in.us> Queued mail for
delivery)
Mar 24 13:38:59 frost sendmail[7401]: l2OHcxAi007399:
to=<pgrayove at monroe.lib.in.us>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
mailer=esmtp, pri=229229, relay=mail.monroe.lib.in.us. [66.244.68.18],
dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
<mailman.0.1174757938.7371.trustees at monroe.lib.in.us> Queued mail for
delivery)

Thanks,
Paula

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paula Gray-Overtoom
Bloomington, IN

 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+pgrayove=monroe.lib.in.us at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pgrayove=monroe.lib.in.us at python.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 1:35 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] owner/moderator requests not sent

Paula Gray-Overtoom wrote:
>
>I am only getting the first two of the entries in the mailman smtp log.
>So, the resend to the actual owners isn't happening.


It seems there is some problem with delivery to the listname-owner
address. Perhaps an alias problem.

What happens if you email the listname-owner address directly?

What's in the MTA log for the mail to listname-owner?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pgrayove%40monroe.l
ib.in.us

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 24 20:34:14 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 12:34:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] owner/moderator requests not sent
In-Reply-To: <E2603DDA11BFB3488A068587D6217B5852AEE4@poe.internal.monroe.lib.in.us>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703241234140328f2486bd6@msapiro>

Paula Gray-Overtoom wrote:

>There could be an alias type problem.  If I send a message to
>listname-owner at servername.domain.com the message gets sent to the list
>owners, but if I send the message to listname-owner at domain.com it
>doesn't get sent.


This may be an MTA/alias issue. The real question is what is the email
host name you want to use for your list. If it is
servername.domain.com, then your list and possibly your Mailman
installation is misconfigured.

To what domain are list posts addressed? listname at servername.domain.com
or listname at domain.com.

If they are sent to listname at domain.com, and that works, what's
different in the MTA/aliases configuration between listname and
listname-owner?

If the list addresses are intended to be at servername.domain.com, then
the list's host_name attribute should be servername.domain.com. Also
probably DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in mm_cfg.py should be set to
'servername.domain.com', and possibly other things set in mm_cfg.py.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>.
Don't overlook the section on "Existing versus new lists".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Sat Mar 24 20:58:13 2007
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:58:13 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] an alternative smtp server?
Message-ID: <61158.192.168.11.7.1174766293.squirrel@szalbot.homedns.org>

Hello,

I have two machines on my LAN both with the same domain name. Mailman is
installed on machine A but for actual SMTP mailman work I would like to
use machine B (as machine A is a bit stressed with other tasks). I cannot
use the domain entered in the general settings for a list (because smtp
servers on both machines have the same domian). Is it possible to specify 
a LAN address of machine B so that mailman uses this machine for all of
its operations? Bounces and all other requests would come to machine A
anyway as this is defined at the router level.

Thank you very much in advance!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 24 21:30:28 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:30:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] an alternative smtp server?
In-Reply-To: <61158.192.168.11.7.1174766293.squirrel@szalbot.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703241330280468c06938d0@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>Is it possible to specify 
>a LAN address of machine B so that mailman uses this machine for all of
>its operations? Bounces and all other requests would come to machine A
>anyway as this is defined at the router level.


For outgoing SMTP, yes. Just set (for example)

SMTPHOST = '192.168.0.5'

in mm_cfg.py. You can also set

SMTPPORT = nn

if nn is other than 25.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sat Mar 24 22:12:21 2007
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 06:12:21 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Problem with format=flowed
	patch
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070323144647029653bb77f7@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070323144647029653bb77f7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46059435.3030808@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi Mark,

I was working this patch on the trunk.

I think the indent level of this part in Scrubber.py should be

              if charset is None:
                  charset = part.get_content_charset(lcset)
+            format = part.get_param('format')
+            delsp = part.get_param('delsp')

Sorry if I misunderstand.

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I have been working on a fix for the problem of Mailman's dropping
> format=flowed from Content-Type: headers. There is a bug report and a
> patch at
> <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1495122&group_id=103>.
> 
> The patch to Scrubber.py has just been revised (revised patch is
> attached to the above tracker item).
> 
> Scrubber would throw an exception when processing a message with no
> text/plain part. If you are using a prior version of this patch,
> please get the current version to avoid this problem.
> 


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 24 23:10:18 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 15:10:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Problem with format=flowed
	patch
In-Reply-To: <46059435.3030808@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703241510180109f2486aff@msapiro>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>
>I think the indent level of this part in Scrubber.py should be
>
>              if charset is None:
>                  charset = part.get_content_charset(lcset)
>+            format = part.get_param('format')
>+            delsp = part.get_param('delsp')
>


Tokio,

Thanks for looking at this.

I don't think your suggestion is correct. What I am trying to do is get
the format= and delsp= parameters from only the first text/plain part
in the message. Often, this will be the only part in which case it
doesn't matter.

Consider however a message with a format=flowed text/plain 'body' and a
subsequent attached text/plain part perhaps without format=flowed. We
want to remember the format parameter from the first 'body' part and
not override it from the second text/plain part.

I recognize that there can always be a pathological case where it might
be more appropriate to get the parameters from a subsequent part, but
I think in general, the first text/plain part is the safest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Sat Mar 24 23:23:09 2007
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 23:23:09 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] an alternative smtp server?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703241330280468c06938d0@msapiro>
References: <61158.192.168.11.7.1174766293.squirrel@szalbot.homedns.org>
	<PC1760200703241330280468c06938d0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <61623.192.168.11.7.1174774989.squirrel@szalbot.homedns.org>

Hello,

>> Is it possible to specify
>> a LAN address of machine B so that mailman uses this machine for all of
>> its operations? Bounces and all other requests would come to machine A
>> anyway as this is defined at the router level.
>
>
> For outgoing SMTP, yes. Just set (for example)
>
>
> SMTPHOST = '192.168.0.5'

Thank you very much! That's very helpful. I will be able to delegate the
mailman job to machine B and won't have to worry about overloading it (due
to personalization) as it generally does almost nothing. :)

Warm regards,

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot


From orlando_achury at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 25 00:25:49 2007
From: orlando_achury at hotmail.com (orlando achury)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 09:25:49 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how i begin?
Message-ID: <BAY136-F22417C4DEDB7C65936038F1690@phx.gbl>

please, hom i can begin in mailman

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Amor: busca tu ? naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sun Mar 25 00:52:44 2007
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:52:44 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Problem with format=flowed
	patch
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703241510180109f2486aff@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200703241510180109f2486aff@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4605B9CC.5070602@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I don't think your suggestion is correct. What I am trying to do is get
> the format= and delsp= parameters from only the first text/plain part
> in the message. Often, this will be the only part in which case it
> doesn't matter.

Sorry that I misunderstood.  It was a little bit too early in the 
morning to start working. ;-) (6AM Japan)

I've almost done with this 'format=flowed' patch and others for 
Scrubber.py and Decorate.py for the trunk.  I'll commit them after 
adding some more test codes.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From info at stonebyte.de  Sun Mar 25 09:45:01 2007
From: info at stonebyte.de (Info)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 09:45:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Postfix and MySQL
Message-ID: <4606287D.7040904@stonebyte.de>

Hi list,

well, i have a problem integrating mailman with postfix. I manage my
virtual domains and aliases through mysql and a PHP-Frontend.
Mailman is running and i could create the global list "mailman"
So far so good, but how can i use the generated aliases with mysql?

This is the relevant entries in the config file:

DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = "www.mydomain.de"
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = "mydomain.de"

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['mydomain.de']

Through the PHP-Frontend i?ve created the virtual domain mydomain.de
Now when i send a email the mail gets to the mailbox root from another 
domain. This is probably because the mail gets send to the hostname of 
the server server.mydomain.de Here i have an catch all alias which 
points to root at myotherdomain.de
Now i got stuck.

Kind regards,

Christian

From dave at hamnet.org  Sun Mar 25 16:09:07 2007
From: dave at hamnet.org (Dave Foran)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 10:09:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Let me try this again  ;-)
Message-ID: <JAECKOFJECGOBNLONDHNEECNCJAA.dave@hamnet.org>

 Folks

Is there an option to have mailman ignore anonymous posts and not even
acknowledge the post. Just let it go to /dev/null ??

I have looked and see nothing in simple english..

Right now, I am seriously blacklisted by the anonymous posts being sent by
spammers and mailman trying to send back a message "your post is not
allowed"


Maybe I just need to rename them ??


This is getting to the point of "The Spammers win, I loose"

Thanks

Dave

---
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Foran                                  Internet ONLY:dave at hamnet.org
                             Cruise Missile Coordinates 41.36.46N 81.25.53W
---------------------------------------------------------------------------





From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Sun Mar 25 18:14:54 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 11:14:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Let me try this again  ;-)
In-Reply-To: <JAECKOFJECGOBNLONDHNEECNCJAA.dave@hamnet.org>
References: <JAECKOFJECGOBNLONDHNEECNCJAA.dave@hamnet.org>
Message-ID: <947130DE-C86D-4D1B-AD31-DBC8088CB0BC@goldmark.org>

On Mar 25, 2007, at 9:09 AM, Dave Foran wrote:

> Is there an option to have mailman ignore anonymous posts and not even
> acknowledge the post. Just let it go to /dev/null ??

There is probably some way to do that, but I don't know it.  But I'm  
not sure that that is the right approach in the first place, since  
once your server accepts some incoming mail it has certain  
responsibilities.

> Right now, I am seriously blacklisted by the anonymous posts being  
> sent by
> spammers and mailman trying to send back a message "your post is not
> allowed"

You should be doing your spam blocking earlier.  Are you using  
DNSbl's and or filters to reject incoming spam?  If you reject most  
of the spam at SMTP time, then mailman will never see the spam in the  
first place and you won't have to generate any bounces.

-j
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -----
> Dave Foran                                  Internet  
> ONLY:dave at hamnet.org
>                              Cruise Missile Coordinates 41.36.46N  
> 81.25.53W
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -----

Not enough information.  We need altitude as well for setting the  
target of a missile.



-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From raquel at thericehouse.net  Sun Mar 25 18:12:15 2007
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 09:12:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Let me try this again  ;-)
In-Reply-To: <JAECKOFJECGOBNLONDHNEECNCJAA.dave@hamnet.org>
References: <JAECKOFJECGOBNLONDHNEECNCJAA.dave@hamnet.org>
Message-ID: <20070325091215.6c279040.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 10:09:07 -0400
"Dave Foran" <dave at hamnet.org> wrote:

>  Folks
> 
> Is there an option to have mailman ignore anonymous posts and not
> even acknowledge the post. Just let it go to /dev/null ??
> 
> I have looked and see nothing in simple english..
> 
> Right now, I am seriously blacklisted by the anonymous posts being
> sent by spammers and mailman trying to send back a message "your
> post is not allowed"
> 
> 
> Maybe I just need to rename them ??
> 
> 
> This is getting to the point of "The Spammers win, I loose"
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Dave
> 

Have you looked at the list administrative interface?

Just to name a few --

General Options ...
Send mail to poster when their posting is held for approval?

Privacy options ...
What steps are required for subscription?
Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit
action is defined.
Filter rules to match against the headers of a message.
Hold posts with header value matching a specified regexp.

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human
history is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts
to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he
sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a
million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a
current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and
injustice.
  --Senator Robert F. Kennedy, University of Capetown, South Africa,



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar 25 18:25:11 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 09:25:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Postfix and MySQL
In-Reply-To: <4606287D.7040904@stonebyte.de>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703250925110062421bd509@msapiro>

Info wrote:
>
>well, i have a problem integrating mailman with postfix. I manage my
>virtual domains and aliases through mysql and a PHP-Frontend.
>Mailman is running and i could create the global list "mailman"
>So far so good, but how can i use the generated aliases with mysql?


You can use a hash for the Mailman aliases even though you use mysql.

See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html> - in particular,
subsections 6.1.1 and 6.1.2.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar 25 18:37:31 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 09:37:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Let me try this again  ;-)
In-Reply-To: <JAECKOFJECGOBNLONDHNEECNCJAA.dave@hamnet.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703250937310562421bd711@msapiro>

Dave Foran wrote:
>
>Is there an option to have mailman ignore anonymous posts and not even
>acknowledge the post. Just let it go to /dev/null ??
>
>I have looked and see nothing in simple english..
>
>Right now, I am seriously blacklisted by the anonymous posts being sent by
>spammers and mailman trying to send back a message "your post is not
>allowed"


What is an 'anonymous' post?

I replied to you on Tuesday. Unfortunately, I neglected to copy the
list on my first reply.

It seems like right now you have Privacy options...->Sender
filters->generic_nonmember_action set to Reject. Set it to Discard.

In any case, the "your post is not allowed" message is due to some
Reject action which if changed to Discard will cause the post to be
silently ignored.

However, as pointed out in other replies, filtering in the MTA ahead of
Mailman is a better approach.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dave at hamnet.org  Sun Mar 25 20:50:05 2007
From: dave at hamnet.org (Dave Foran)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 14:50:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Let me try this again  ;-)
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703250937310562421bd711@msapiro>
Message-ID: <JAECKOFJECGOBNLONDHNEEDBCJAA.dave@hamnet.org>

Greetings again

As I am totally locked out from send from my own system until time moves on
;-)

Paul Tomblin, replied to me earlier today and yes, all lists were set to
reject, and since
have been set to discard

A good friend gave me his "sorbs" lines for my sendmail.mc and I added them,
but saw nothing

So, in my testing, I removed all the dnl in the lines and viola, I am
rejecting tons of crap.

SO I think, I got things fixed and I hope this is the last of the issues.

My THANKS, to the way questions get answered in a HURRY

THANKS, again

Dave



Dave Foran wrote:
>
>Is there an option to have mailman ignore anonymous posts and not even
>acknowledge the post. Just let it go to /dev/null ??
>
>I have looked and see nothing in simple english..
>
>Right now, I am seriously blacklisted by the anonymous posts being sent by
>spammers and mailman trying to send back a message "your post is not
>allowed"


What is an 'anonymous' post?

I replied to you on Tuesday. Unfortunately, I neglected to copy the
list on my first reply.

It seems like right now you have Privacy options...->Sender
filters->generic_nonmember_action set to Reject. Set it to Discard.

In any case, the "your post is not allowed" message is due to some
Reject action which if changed to Discard will cause the post to be
silently ignored.

However, as pointed out in other replies, filtering in the MTA ahead of
Mailman is a better approach.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dave%40hamnet.org

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From dave at hamnet.org  Sun Mar 25 21:51:09 2007
From: dave at hamnet.org (Dave Foran)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 15:51:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Let me try this again  ;-)
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703250937310562421bd711@msapiro>
Message-ID: <JAECKOFJECGOBNLONDHNGEDDCJAA.dave@hamnet.org>



-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+dave=hamnet.org at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+dave=hamnet.org at python.org]On Behalf Of
Mark Sapiro
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 12:38
To: Mailman-Users at Python. Org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Let me try this again ;-)



What is an 'anonymous' post?

>>As far as I am concerned some robot that has screen scraped an address and
sent a message to a list to spam it

Dave




I replied to you on Tuesday. Unfortunately, I neglected to copy the
list on my first reply.

It seems like right now you have Privacy options...->Sender
filters->generic_nonmember_action set to Reject. Set it to Discard.

In any case, the "your post is not allowed" message is due to some
Reject action which if changed to Discard will cause the post to be
silently ignored.

However, as pointed out in other replies, filtering in the MTA ahead of
Mailman is a better approach.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dave%40hamnet.org

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar 25 22:54:16 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 13:54:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Let me try this again  ;-)
In-Reply-To: <JAECKOFJECGOBNLONDHNGEDDCJAA.dave@hamnet.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020070325135416087534c248db@msapiro>

Dave Foran wrote:
>
>What is an 'anonymous' post?
>
>>>As far as I am concerned some robot that has screen scraped an address and
>sent a message to a list to spam it


Yes, but what characteristics does this message have that would allow
Mailman to recognize it as such and treat it differently from a
message to the list from a human who hapens to be a list member
posting from the wrong address or a non-member sending a 'legitimate'
message?

In other words, you may not want to discard all non-member posts. It
may be better if you can filter the spam ahead of Mailman and then
hold the remaining non-member posts for moderator action.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dave at hamnet.org  Sun Mar 25 23:19:49 2007
From: dave at hamnet.org (Dave Foran)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:19:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Let me try this again  ;-)
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070325135416087534c248db@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BOEALOCAPEOBAALIBMCOOEBFCGAA.dave@hamnet.org>

You are probably correct

But until I get this spa, issue resolved

EVERYTHING goes  ;-)

Very frustrating

I am still getting some junk, but I think it may be some goof send a message
to everyone



Dave



Dave Foran wrote:
>
>What is an 'anonymous' post?
>
>>>As far as I am concerned some robot that has screen scraped an address
and
>sent a message to a list to spam it


Yes, but what characteristics does this message have that would allow
Mailman to recognize it as such and treat it differently from a
message to the list from a human who hapens to be a list member
posting from the wrong address or a non-member sending a 'legitimate'
message?

In other words, you may not want to discard all non-member posts. It
may be better if you can filter the spam ahead of Mailman and then
hold the remaining non-member posts for moderator action.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 26 01:22:34 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:22:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config_list does not finish
In-Reply-To: <4b58d51b0703251539q75da6200he124aca986ca2b77@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703251622340203ea058acd@msapiro>

Michael McAndrew wrote:
>
>Thanks a lot,
>
>The triple string quotes didn't appear in the config file - they were in the
>email only to show the start and end of the quoted config file: confusing in
>retrospect.


Yes, I was confused.


>When I looked this morning, the lists were working again,and (thanks to the
>reply) I now know why this was - The lists were locked and hadn't been
>unlocked afterwards.  One problem for me was that I didn't know if lists are
>initially locked or unlocked, and consequently didn't know whether to leave
>them locked or unlocked at the end.  I've put a fuller explanation below in
>case it helps someone in a similar position to me.
>
>I have a script I run every half hour that adjusts moderation bits on some
>lists.  I was running the script with the -l (lock) option but not calling
>the method m.Save() before it finished (the m.Save() method unlocks the
>list,I presume) which meant the list wasn't automatically unlocked.  I
>presume mailman noticed and was able to deal with this most of the time, but
>not always, which is why it hung sometimes.


No. The Save() method only saves the updated list. It doesn't unlock
it. A list is unlocked by calling the Unlock() method.

If you are only processing one list with withlist, withlist will unlock
the list when the script exits, but if you are processing multiple
lists with something like

  /path/to/bin/withlist -l -a -r callable

withlist will only unlock the last list processed and you will be left
with locked lists unless you specifically unlock them within the
callable function. If you specify both -l and -a to withlist, you must
explicitly Unlock() the list whether or not you Save() it first or you
will be left with locked lists.

An appropriate callable.py for this scenario contains

def callable(mlist, ...):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()

    (process here)

    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()

This works whether or not the -l option is given to withlist. It also
works if callable exits because of an exception in its process because
withlist sets sys.exitfunc to its own function which unlocks the list
if locked.


>Actually, I feel like this was the last hurdle in a long process of
>integrating mailman with another open source php based CMS that I a have
>also customised a bit.  It's been a steep and mostly enjoyable learning
>curve, and though it might be standard for someone with a history in open
>source, for me it was pretty great to be able to do all this, and the
>support was really great - Cool - thanks a lot,
>
>Michael

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dave at ddwsvcs.com  Mon Mar 26 03:38:47 2007
From: dave at ddwsvcs.com (David Devereaux-Weber)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:38:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Installing Mailman 2.1.9 on Solaris 10
Message-ID: <46072427.3080107@ddwsvcs.com>

I'm having a problem with building mailman 2.1.9 on Solaris 10.  No problems with configure or make, but make install breaks.

Here is an extract:

/opt/csw/lib/python2.3/distutils/dist.py:213: UserWarning: 'licence' distribution option is deprecated; use 'license'
  warnings.warn(msg)
unable to execute cc: No such file or directory
error: command 'cc' failed with exit status 1
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
Current working directory /usr/local/src/mailman-2.1.9/misc
*** Error code 1
The following command caused the error:
for d in bin cron misc Mailman scripts src templates messages tests; \
do \
    (cd $d; make DESTDIR= install); \
done
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'



Does anyone see something here?

Thanks!

Dave Devereaux-Weber

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Mon Mar 26 06:05:30 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 22:05:30 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Installing Mailman 2.1.9 on
	Solaris 10
In-Reply-To: <46072427.3080107@ddwsvcs.com>
Message-ID: <200703260405.l2Q45UxE009692@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed David Devereaux-Weber has said:
> 
> I'm having a problem with building mailman 2.1.9 on Solaris 10.  No problems with configure or make, but make install breaks.
> 
> Here is an extract:
> 
> /opt/csw/lib/python2.3/distutils/dist.py:213: 

There's your problem.
> 
> Does anyone see something here?
> 
You're using the wrong Python.  I don't know where you got this Python
(/opt/csw is not a Solaris 10 directory), but it's behaving the same
as the Python 2.3 that is in the Solaris 10 distribution installed in
/usr/sfw.  My recollection is that /opt/csw is being used by one or
more prebuilt services who have religious tabus about using
/usr/local, and presume you've downloaded a prebuilt Python package
and installed it.  

Download the Python 2.4.4 source (not 2.5 or later), configure, and
build that.  It will not build completely, but what doesn't build
(tcl and the ssl functions) isn't needed for Mailman.  Solaris 10
comes with gcc 3.4.2 in /usr/sfw/bin, which can be used to build both
Python and Mailman.  

When you've got Python 2.4.4 built and installed, use "which python"
to make sure it's the first one in your path.  
/usr/local/bin/python

Also, on a Solaris system (all versions), I strongly recommend
renaming /usr/ucb/cc to something else so that configure scripts don't
think the system has a working cc.  That particular cc is a shell
script stub that is there for historical reasons dating from the
original SVR4 specification in 1988.  

If you have downloaded and installed the Sun development system
(Studio 11 is the current marketing name for it) that installs by
default in /opt/SUNWspro, use that cc and CC instead of the GNU stuff.
Note that you'll have to force the configure scripts not to use gcc
when you run them.  

Hank 



From Marco.vanKammen at springer.com  Mon Mar 26 08:17:08 2007
From: Marco.vanKammen at springer.com (Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 08:17:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mm-handler user unknown problem
References: <200703231631.l2NGVCPn002283@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <D682F5E0D03C4447ACAFE9FE7779606B045B5937@ID309.springer-sbm.com>

Hi Hank,

Thanks for your anwser.

I got mailman working now without the use of mm-handler and the use of
aliases.

The whole idea about using the mm-handler (at least I think it is) is
that you by-pass the normal sendmail aliases, so that you don't have to
create new ones for every new list.

The mm-handler process picks up everything and redirects it to mailman
without having to create every mailinglist address separate as a alias
for sendmail.

But I guess I'll find another way to automatically generate the needed
aliases for the mailinglists we create. 

With Kind Regards,

-	
Marco van Kammen
Springer
Unix / Exchange System Manager 
Floor Manager / Postmaster
-	
Van Godewijckstraat 30 | 3311 GX
Office Number: 05E21 
P.O. Box 17 | 3300 AA
Dordrecht | The Netherlands 	
tel	 +31 (0) 78 657 6446	
fax	 +31 (0) 78 657 6302	
Marco.vanKammen at springer.com
www.springer.com 
-	
 

-----Original Message-----
From: vancleef at lostwells.net [mailto:vancleef at lostwells.net] 
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 5:31 PM
To: Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mm-handler user unknown problem

The esteemed Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL has said:
> 
> From: mailman-users-bounces+marco.vankammen=springer.com at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+marco.vankammen=springer.com at python.org]
> On Behalf Of Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 4:22 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mm-handler user unknown problem
> 
> Dear All,
>  
> Using:
>  
> Red Hat Linux release 9
> Mailman 2.1.9
> Sendmail 8.12.8
>  
> First of all i'm a total sendmail noob so please be nice :-D I've been

> scrolling through FAQ's mailinglists etc all day and found many people

> have this problem but didn't find a really good solution for this.. 
> Most problems seem to be related to people forgetting to setup 
> aliases, but in this case i'm using mm-handler which as far as i 
> understand overrides the use of aliases and only needs some address in

> the virtusertable. (if address doesn't exist in virtusertable then 
> goto mm-handler and get specific mailinglist address)
>  
If you are new to sendmail, I would strongly suggest not attempting to
use the mm-handler setup for initial setup and test.  There is a
four-step procedure for doing an initial sendmail configuration and
checkout in the archives at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/msg43689.html

The main.mc statements in that document are correct for Sendmail 8.12
and Sendmail 8.13

This setup presumes that you are installing Mailman on the
incoming/outgoing mail host.  

> I got everything up and running, made the test list, received the 
> mails from the test list, was able to subscribe people to it using the

> webinterface, the newly subscribed people also received the mails.
>  
> Problem is when trying to send a mail to the new mailinglist.
>  
> 550 5.1.1 <testlist at senldogo0013.springer-sbm.com>... User unknown

This is a fairly clear indication that you do need to install a set of
alias pipes to Mailman.  On a sendmail installation, you do this
manually.  bin/genaliases will produced the needed aliases in the proper
form for sendmail.  You need a full set of aliases for each list you
create.  

It's important to understand that the Mailman aliases are pipes to
Mailman scripts.  What you are doing is telling the sendmail daemon for
incoming mail to bypass normal sendmail spool handling and, instead, to
pipe the data to the Mailman qrunners.  
>  
I'll snip and skip over your configuration data for mm-handler as I
don't run that configuration on my sites.  I do not know if anyone
reading this mail list is using that configuration.  

For a basic Sendmail-Mailman integration you do not need to enable and
configure the mailertable and virtusertable features to support Mailman
if you are not using them to support your site Sendmail configuration
for regular user accounts.  
>  
> My main concern is the sendmail.cf, i first edited the os delivered 
> sendmail.mc file did some cut pasting from the mailman.mc file then 
> generated the sendmail.cf file using the proper m4 method. Maybe 
> someone can give me a basic sendmail.cf which can be easily used for 
> the basic mail & mailman functionality cause the mailman.mc file which

> comes with the package can't be used cause that one gives lots of
errors.
>  
> Thanks for the help!
>  
I'll assume that by "mailman.mc" you mean "main.mc".  You can start with
the sendmail distribution main.mc file.  The only feature that Mailman
requires that is not enabled by default is smrsh.  
FEATURE(smrsh, /usr/lib/smrsh)dnl

Make sure that is the location of the smrsh executable on your system.
Also make sure that the link in sm.bin points to the correct file.  

I can't vouch for the correctness of the main.mc statements included in
the Mailman distribution contrib directory.  If you get M4 assembly
errors when making the cf files from the mc/m4 files, then you need to
review the statements you are using against the Sendmail information in
the O'Reilly Sendmail "bat book" and the Sendmail FAQ.  

Most of the statements you will add to the distribution main.mc file are
site-specific.  If you are new to Sendmail, and doing an initial
installation, I'll suggest that you back down to the default Sendmail
configuration, do what is necessary to get it to work with local user
accounts using a simple MUA to test it, then use the 4-step procedure to
integrate Mailman and Sendmail.  

Hank

From denis at uzvik.kiev.ua  Mon Mar 26 16:03:26 2007
From: denis at uzvik.kiev.ua (Denis)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:03:26 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] template location
Message-ID: <1973354220.20070326170326@uzvik.kiev.ua>

I need edit mailman page, can you please advice where i can found
template for example for this page:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/confirm/mailman-users

reviewing /template/en/ gives no result : (


thanks


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Mar 26 17:14:35 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 10:14:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] template location
In-Reply-To: <1973354220.20070326170326@uzvik.kiev.ua>
References: <1973354220.20070326170326@uzvik.kiev.ua>
Message-ID: <p0624050bc22d93b11ea3@[10.0.1.201]>

At 5:03 PM +0300 3/26/07, Denis wrote:

>  I need edit mailman page, can you please advice where i can found
>  template for example for this page:
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/confirm/mailman-users
>
>  reviewing /template/en/ gives no result : (

That page is too simple.  You won't find a template for it.  It gets 
generated by the source code, although I don't know exactly which 
piece of source code you should be looking at.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Mar 26 17:13:49 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 10:13:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mm-handler user unknown problem
In-Reply-To: <D682F5E0D03C4447ACAFE9FE7779606B045B5937@ID309.springer-sbm.com>
References: <200703231631.l2NGVCPn002283@julie.lostwells.net>
	<D682F5E0D03C4447ACAFE9FE7779606B045B5937@ID309.springer-sbm.com>
Message-ID: <p0624050ac22d934d070b@[10.0.1.201]>

At 8:17 AM +0200 3/26/07, Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL wrote:

>  But I guess I'll find another way to automatically generate the needed
>  aliases for the mailinglists we create.

That should be done for you automatically.  Just define the 
additional alias file within your sendmail.cf, and let Mailman 
generate that for you.  Sendmail actually has better automatic 
generation tools than postfix, so for postfix we end up re-using the 
same trick from sendmail.

Re-check the Mailman documentation for integration with sendmail.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 26 18:30:27 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:30:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] template location
In-Reply-To: <p0624050bc22d93b11ea3@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703260930270031f184b69a@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 5:03 PM +0300 3/26/07, Denis wrote:
>
>>  I need edit mailman page, can you please advice where i can found
>>  template for example for this page:
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/confirm/mailman-users
>>
>>  reviewing /template/en/ gives no result : (
>
>That page is too simple.  You won't find a template for it.  It gets 
>generated by the source code, although I don't know exactly which 
>piece of source code you should be looking at.


The ask_for_cookie() function in Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py

All the web pages outside of archives are generated by the
corresponding module in Mailman/Cgi, some from templates and some
directly.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 26 18:36:35 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:36:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mm-handler user unknown problem
In-Reply-To: <p0624050ac22d934d070b@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703260936350328e8109b6b@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 8:17 AM +0200 3/26/07, Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL wrote:
>
>>  But I guess I'll find another way to automatically generate the needed
>>  aliases for the mailinglists we create.
>
>That should be done for you automatically.  Just define the 
>additional alias file within your sendmail.cf, and let Mailman 
>generate that for you.  Sendmail actually has better automatic 
>generation tools than postfix, so for postfix we end up re-using the 
>same trick from sendmail.


There are some gotcha's with Sendmail (at least according to the FAQ).
See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.049.htp>
and the archived post to which it points.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 26 18:52:01 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:52:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to move lists/subscribers to new machine?
In-Reply-To: <BAY131-F162B657B0E970DA968D912BA6F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703260952010343e8109b58@msapiro>

Peter Matulis wrote:
>
>I have managed to fix up everything with the exception of a certain link 
>that is found in all archived messages ("More information about this list"). 
>  It still refers to the old URL.  Actually, the only difference is that the 
>old one used https and the new one doesn't.


Pages which are updated with new posts and the main table of contents
will get the correct link when they are updated.

The listinfo links in old archives can only be fixed by editing the
actual archive pages (perhaps with a shell script) or by rebuilding
the archives with bin/arch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mike.maughan at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 17:55:34 2007
From: mike.maughan at gmail.com (Mike Maughan)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:55:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where's that d@mn3d horse? Close that stable door!
Message-ID: <fde304e80703260855o38da6e68jc91a03c75a689a96@mail.gmail.com>

It is good practice to keep some part of one's online presence on another
web resource so as to not "put all of ones eggs in the one basket".

I have had this brought home in spades today as dreamhost's Mailman system
is down and of course I could not tell my users ...

As an interim I have set up an announce-only list via yahoogroups; ok for
now but definitely not my preference.  I have also set up a remote
"health-check" for the rest of my servers via host-tracker.com.

My question is, does anyone know of - or operate - an alternative
list-status listserv?

If not, how about an informal list-twinning service?  Pairs of list admins
agree to provide the other with a low traffic text-only list on the other's
servers so we can each maintain an offsite status list?

Wotcha fink, then?

-- 
Regards, Mike

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Mar 26 21:20:57 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:20:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where's that d@mn3d horse? Close that stable
	door!
In-Reply-To: <fde304e80703260855o38da6e68jc91a03c75a689a96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fde304e80703260855o38da6e68jc91a03c75a689a96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070326192057.GA10535@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mike Maughan (mike.maughan at gmail.com):
> If not, how about an informal list-twinning service?  Pairs of list admins
> agree to provide the other with a low traffic text-only list on the other's
> servers so we can each maintain an offsite status list?

Not a bad idea.  I have a friend who likes to write scripts, so I set up a
cron job to send him the union of some of my mailing list subscriber lists
and he automatically changes that into a sendmail alias so I can use his
system for announcing that my system is down.


-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
When the revolution comes, we'll need a longer wall.
              -- Tom De Mulder

From justbrits at comcast.net  Tue Mar 27 01:30:32 2007
From: justbrits at comcast.net (JB@comcast)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:30:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Behind cPanel
References: <fde304e80703260855o38da6e68jc91a03c75a689a96@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070326192057.GA10535@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <00b701c76ffe$bf9f6860$6701a8c0@actualshop>

Finally, I may have a question who's answer may help others!! -:)

Is it possible to delete Archives from a MailMan List when it is "run" by cPanel (and how)??

TIA!!

Ed

From will at willspc.net  Tue Mar 27 05:54:12 2007
From: will at willspc.net (Will Nordmeyer)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:54:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: (111,
	'Connection refused') errors
Message-ID: <001601c77023$96069ad0$6600a8c0@hundredacrewood.willspc.net>

Hi,

 

I've searched the FAQ, and followed the steps in 3.14, but cannot resolve
this error.

 

Mar 27 03:35:58 2007 (20228) Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection
refused'), msgid: mailman.184.1171871291.3116.listname at domainname.tld

 

I'm running on a CentOS system, and installed from source.

 

My netstat - na | grep ":25 " indicates:

 

tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:25                  0.0.0.0:*
LISTEN

 

My Defaults.py has:

DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'

MTA = 'Manual'

SMTPHOST = 'localhost'

SMTPPORT = 0                                      # default from smtplib

SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail'

 

(and none are overwritten by anything in mm_cfg.py)

mm_cfg.py has:

add_virtualhost('www.domainname.tld', 'domainname.tld')

 

/etc/hosts has:

127.0.0.1                localhost localhost.localdomain

 

I've tried changing the SMTPHOST to my local server name, and the actual IP
address for the server.

 

/etc/access has a RELAY command for 127.0.0.1 and all IPs assigned to the
server.

 

Any other suggestions - I've got a client who needs to get an email out to
the list asap.

 

--Will

 


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Mar 27 07:22:11 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:22:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: (111,
 'Connection refused') errors
In-Reply-To: <001601c77023$96069ad0$6600a8c0@hundredacrewood.willspc.net>
References: <001601c77023$96069ad0$6600a8c0@hundredacrewood.willspc.net>
Message-ID: <p06240500c22e5a5cae4c@[10.0.1.201]>

At 11:54 PM -0400 3/26/07, Will Nordmeyer wrote:

>  Any other suggestions - I've got a client who needs to get an email out to
>  the list asap.

Did you check your firewall settings, to make sure that connections 
to port 25 on the localhost IP address would be accepted?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From jock.coats at jcsolutions.co.uk  Tue Mar 27 12:59:40 2007
From: jock.coats at jcsolutions.co.uk (Jock Coats)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 11:59:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not getting aliases, owner notification on newlist
Message-ID: <B02A3374-A149-44E9-94B7-3DA94CD3FFF3@jcsolutions.co.uk>

Hi all, hope someone can help...

I've been using Mailman 2.1.6 for some time now that I happily  
compiled and installed from source on my own server.  Now I've needed  
to move to another server and at first I took the opportunity to  
upgrade to 2.1.9.  But the OutgoingRunner NEVER worked - logging is  
not very verbose for all of this but when I tried running it manually  
- qrunner -v -r Outgoing I got "segmentation fault".

Now I'm running a pretty standard Debian Sarge setup so I thought I'd  
try the Debian package, which is 2.1.5.  Now at least the Outgoing  
qrunner is starting and staying up but, when I created my first, and  
any subsequent lists, I do not get the list of four or five aliases  
before the prompt saying "hit return to notify the list owner" nor,  
when I do hit return, do I get notified of my new list.

What can I tell you...I'm using Postfix as my MTA and virtual domains  
(though this problem seems to occur whether I use the default domain,  
as for the site-list or any of the virtual domains, so I haven't got  
as far as editing the mailman-virtuals database yet as I don't seem  
to have gone that far yet.

I did follow through the FAQ entry 3.14.  Check_perms did find  
problems (of course I hadn't actually run that as I would with an  
install I had compiled myself).  I, naturally, installed the package,  
using aptitude, running as root, and all the symlinks in /var/lib/ 
mailman pointing at /usr/lib/mailman/* had group root, instead of  
group list, and check_perms -f was not able to fix those so I did so  
manually.

I then deleted and recreated the site-list and still got the same  
symptoms.

I notice in the logs/error I seem to get:

Mar 27 08:19:14 2007 (22935) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26312, sig: 11, sts: None, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
[restarting]
Mar 27 08:19:14 2007 (26757) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.

Every time it tries to send a message - that one coincided with me  
deleting and recreating the site list.

Can I get more verbose output than that?

There's nothing left over in the qfiles directories, though both in  
and out are shown as modified at the same time as that OutgoingRunner  
error above.

I watch my postfix logs while I am doing all this and see absolutely  
nothing.  If I try to send a message either to the site list, or to  
mailman-owner, it shows up in the postfix logs passing it onto the  
post command and deleting it from the postfix queues after which it  
just seems to get lost, neither coming back out to the 'real' mailman- 
owner nor getting syphoned off in shunt or anything like that - just  
quietly dying.

Any thoughts?

TIA, Jock

--
Jock Coats
Warden's Flat 1e, J Block Morrell Hall, OXFORD, OX3 0FF
w: +44 (0)1865 483353 h: +44 (0)1865 485019
m: +44 (0)7769 695767 e: jock.coats at jcsolutions.co.uk
www: http://jockcoats.blogspot.com/





From dave at hamnet.org  Tue Mar 27 15:23:29 2007
From: dave at hamnet.org (Dave Foran)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:23:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam of sorts
Message-ID: <20070327132325.D06A4C487@smtp-ext-05.mx.pitdc1.expedient.net>

Folks

You may recall over the weekend I was lamenting the fact that my lists are
getting spammed with with replies going back to somewhere (and being
determined as spam by some of the over zealous spam detectors).

So Paul Tomblin, suggested setting the system to discard the messages, and
for the most part that really did the trick..

Well, I am still getting some more, and I know why and hence this question
and comments

I used to run 3 of the lists on a separate RH 7.3 box that also hosted
another sub-domained system connecting via UUCP  Yep UUCP

And that system was getting some much  spam that I moved the mailling lists
to my main system and a new virtual hosted domain
And subsequently moved the offending spam related subdomained system to my
main system. (So that is has to macch a user name in liue of just passing
thru the system)  With me so far ??  I am not.

The lists that are getting the bogus messages have new domain names, but
spammers are sending spam to the lists using the old domain. And hence
failing.

The list name that I am tinkering with is rrdiana at railnet.org, but it used
to be rrdiana at nshore.org,  railnet.org and nshore.org are now virtual hosted
on my system.

So, is this "legal" in the sense of Mailman on the "General options page

Example
host_name (general): Host name this list prefers for email.   Railnet.org

To also add  nshore.org  so that both valid domain names are there.

host_name (general): Host name this list prefers for email.  Railnet.org,
nshore.org 

Rrdiana.railnet.org is valid,  but rrdiana.nshore.org is also valid to a
point, but.. ???


THANKS

Dave


--
 Dave Foran                              Internet ONLY:  dave at hamnet.org
 
             Cruise Missile Coordinates 41.36.46N 81.25.53W
 


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Tue Mar 27 15:41:15 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:41:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam of sorts
In-Reply-To: <20070327132325.D06A4C487@smtp-ext-05.mx.pitdc1.expedient.net>
References: <20070327132325.D06A4C487@smtp-ext-05.mx.pitdc1.expedient.net>
Message-ID: <20070327134115.GA6462@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Dave Foran (dave at hamnet.org):
> The lists that are getting the bogus messages have new domain names, but
> spammers are sending spam to the lists using the old domain. And hence
> failing.
> 
> The list name that I am tinkering with is rrdiana at railnet.org, but it used
> to be rrdiana at nshore.org,  railnet.org and nshore.org are now virtual hosted
> on my system.

When I moved my lists from my home machine (xcski.com) to a virtual
private server (list.xcski.com), I used postfix's "/etc/postfix/relocated"
to cause requests for the old list names to bounce with a message giving
the new list names.  Spammers never read those bounce messages, but real
people might.  You could use that to make sure if people are requesting
the old list address that they get told of the new list address.

Or if you just want the list to be available at both locations, I imagine
you could just make your own entries in the aliases file (the main one,
not the one mailman manages) for the old location.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"The ideals we uphold during a crisis define who we are." - Bruce Scheier
http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0109.html

From dave at hamnet.org  Tue Mar 27 15:54:10 2007
From: dave at hamnet.org (Dave Foran)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:54:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam of sorts
In-Reply-To: <20070327134115.GA6462@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <20070327135407.3EBFA4C1C6@smtp-ext-02.mx.pitdc1.expedient.net>

 



Quoting Dave Foran (dave at hamnet.org):
> The lists that are getting the bogus messages have new domain names, 
> but spammers are sending spam to the lists using the old domain. And 
> hence failing.
> 
> The list name that I am tinkering with is rrdiana at railnet.org, but it 
> used to be rrdiana at nshore.org,  railnet.org and nshore.org are now 
> virtual hosted on my system.

When I moved my lists from my home machine (xcski.com) to a virtual private
server (list.xcski.com), I used postfix's "/etc/postfix/relocated"
>Hmm Wonder if an option like this is available in sendmail..


to cause requests for the old list names to bounce with a message giving the
new list names.  Spammers never read those bounce messages, but real people
might.  You could use that to make sure if people are requesting the old
list address that they get told of the new list address.
> The users have the correct domain names, Tis the spammers still using the
old name



Or if you just want the list to be available at both locations, I imagine
you could just make your own entries in the aliases file (the main one, not
the one mailman manages) for the old location.
> Something tinker with..

Dave


--
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/ "The ideals we
uphold during a crisis define who we are." - Bruce Scheier
http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0109.html
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dave%40hamnet.org

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue Mar 27 16:23:39 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:23:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam of sorts
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Paul Tomblin <ptomblin@xcski.com>'
	dated: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:41:15 -0400
Message-ID: <200703271423.l2RENdHI005915@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> wrote:

>When I moved my lists from my home machine (xcski.com) to a virtual
>private server (list.xcski.com), I used postfix's
>"/etc/postfix/relocated" to cause requests for the old list names to
>bounce with a message giving the new list names.  Spammers never read
>those bounce messages, but real people might.  You could use that to
>make sure if people are requesting the old list address that they get
>told of the new list address.
>
>Or if you just want the list to be available at both locations, I
>imagine you could just make your own entries in the aliases file (the
>main one, not the one mailman manages) for the old location.

I have moved a few lists from Majordomo to Mailman.  The Mailman
machine is a different machine that the Majordomo machine.  So,

     list at example.com

became

     list at mailman.example.com

and I added an entry to the alias file on the Majordomo machine
redirecting mail.  Someone sent mail to

     list at example.com

and the mail was received by Mailman but held for approval because
the list name was not in the "To:" or "Cc:" lines.  I had to change the

     require_explicit_destination

parm from "True" to "False" to get around this.  Once all of the
posters use the new list address, I can remove the alias and change
this parm back to "True".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From will at willspc.net  Tue Mar 27 11:42:57 2007
From: will at willspc.net (Will Nordmeyer)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 05:42:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: (111,
	'Connection refused') errors
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c22e5a5cae4c@[10.0.1.201]>
References: <001601c77023$96069ad0$6600a8c0@hundredacrewood.willspc.net>
	<p06240500c22e5a5cae4c@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <003601c77054$4e10dc00$6600a8c0@hundredacrewood.willspc.net>

The firewall was fine...  the problem was that, for some reason, the hosts
file did not have world read privileges!

Thanks for the assistance - your question led me to further telnet localhost
25 testing.  I'd done it as root and it worked... I hadn't tried it as a
non-root user (brain failure at midnight last night).

--Will

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 1:22 AM
> To: Will Nordmeyer; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection
> refused') errors
> 
> At 11:54 PM -0400 3/26/07, Will Nordmeyer wrote:
> 
> >  Any other suggestions - I've got a client who needs to get an email out
> to
> >  the list asap.
> 
> Did you check your firewall settings, to make sure that connections
> to port 25 on the localhost IP address would be accepted?
> 
> --
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
> Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Mar 27 17:12:39 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 08:12:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam of sorts
In-Reply-To: <200703271423.l2RENdHI005915@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <Mail from 'Paul Tomblin <ptomblin@xcski.com>
	<200703271423.l2RENdHI005915@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <200703271513.l2RFCfik012086@unreal.eroded.org>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>I have moved a few lists from Majordomo to Mailman.  The Mailman
>machine is a different machine that the Majordomo machine.  So,
>
>      list at example.com
>
>became
>
>      list at mailman.example.com
>
>and I added an entry to the alias file on the Majordomo machine
>redirecting mail.  Someone sent mail to
>
>      list at example.com
>
>and the mail was received by Mailman but held for approval because
>the list name was not in the "To:" or "Cc:" lines.  I had to change the
>
>      require_explicit_destination
>
>parm from "True" to "False" to get around this.  Once all of the
>posters use the new list address, I can remove the alias and change
>this parm back to "True".
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I think a better choice would be to leave 
require_explicit_destination at True and to add the old list address 
to acceptable_aliases under Privacy Options-> Recipient Filters.

That way you still get the functionality of 
holding/rejecting/discarding those messages without the list address 
in the to: or cc: fields while still passing messages sent to the old address.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 27 17:20:22 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 08:20:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: (111,
	'Connection refused') errors
In-Reply-To: <003601c77054$4e10dc00$6600a8c0@hundredacrewood.willspc.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032708202202185a532a30@msapiro>

Will Nordmeyer wrote:

>The firewall was fine...  the problem was that, for some reason, the hosts
>file did not have world read privileges!
>
>Thanks for the assistance - your question led me to further telnet localhost
>25 testing.  I'd done it as root and it worked... I hadn't tried it as a
>non-root user (brain failure at midnight last night).


The /etc/hosts not world readable problem is mentioned in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.014.htp>.

That and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
may have been helpful. You mentioned searching the FAQ. Can you help
us by suggesting what changes we could make to have made it more
likely that you would find this information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 27 17:45:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 08:45:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not getting aliases,
	owner notification on newlist
In-Reply-To: <B02A3374-A149-44E9-94B7-3DA94CD3FFF3@jcsolutions.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703270845410281101f21a2@msapiro>

Jock Coats wrote:
>
>I've been using Mailman 2.1.6 for some time now that I happily  
>compiled and installed from source on my own server.  Now I've needed  
>to move to another server and at first I took the opportunity to  
>upgrade to 2.1.9.  But the OutgoingRunner NEVER worked - logging is  
>not very verbose for all of this but when I tried running it manually  
>- qrunner -v -r Outgoing I got "segmentation fault".



I'd go back to 2.1.9 because you have the same problem with the Debian
package.


<snip>
>
>I then deleted and recreated the site-list and still got the same  
>symptoms.
>
>I notice in the logs/error I seem to get:
>
>Mar 27 08:19:14 2007 (22935) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26312, sig: 11, sts: None, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
>[restarting]
>Mar 27 08:19:14 2007 (26757) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.



This looks like it's from the qrunner log, not the error log, but it
says OutgoingRunner was killed with signal 11 - SIGSEGV segmentation
violation.


>Every time it tries to send a message - that one coincided with me  
>deleting and recreating the site list.
>
>Can I get more verbose output than that?


Since your outgoing runner dies in the same way with both versions,
perhaps this is a Python problem, not a mailman problem.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
for some debugging techniques.


>There's nothing left over in the qfiles directories, though both in  
>and out are shown as modified at the same time as that OutgoingRunner  
>error above.


With 2.1.9, there will be a .bak file left in the 'out' queue, but it
will be reprocessed when outgoing runner restarts which will repeat
the failure in a loop until the retry limit for qrunners is reached.


>I watch my postfix logs while I am doing all this and see absolutely  
>nothing.  If I try to send a message either to the site list, or to  
>mailman-owner, it shows up in the postfix logs passing it onto the  
>post command and deleting it from the postfix queues after which it  
>just seems to get lost, neither coming back out to the 'real' mailman- 
>owner nor getting syphoned off in shunt or anything like that - just  
>quietly dying.


Because Mailman is unable to send any outgoing mail. It tries,
OutgoingRunner is killed because of the segmentation violation and the
out queue entry is lost.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pgrayove at monroe.lib.in.us  Tue Mar 27 18:34:03 2007
From: pgrayove at monroe.lib.in.us (Paula Gray-Overtoom)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 12:34:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] owner/moderator requests not sent
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703241234140328f2486bd6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <E2603DDA11BFB3488A068587D6217B5852B0C7@poe.internal.monroe.lib.in.us>

Thanks so much for your assistance.  I just needed to set 'hostname this
list prefers' to servername.domain.com rather than just domain.com.  We
have most of our mail on another sever that is set to domain.com and
will send emails for the mailman lists on to the mailman server at
servername.domain.com.  So, emails sent to either address will get to
the mailman lists and now those for the owners will get sent out
properly from mailman.

Thanks,
Paula

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paula Gray-Overtoom
Bloomington, IN

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 3:34 PM
To: Paula Gray-Overtoom; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] owner/moderator requests not sent

Paula Gray-Overtoom wrote:

>There could be an alias type problem.  If I send a message to
>listname-owner at servername.domain.com the message gets sent to the list
>owners, but if I send the message to listname-owner at domain.com it
>doesn't get sent.


This may be an MTA/alias issue. The real question is what is the email
host name you want to use for your list. If it is
servername.domain.com, then your list and possibly your Mailman
installation is misconfigured.

To what domain are list posts addressed? listname at servername.domain.com
or listname at domain.com.

If they are sent to listname at domain.com, and that works, what's
different in the MTA/aliases configuration between listname and
listname-owner?

If the list addresses are intended to be at servername.domain.com, then
the list's host_name attribute should be servername.domain.com. Also
probably DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in mm_cfg.py should be set to
'servername.domain.com', and possibly other things set in mm_cfg.py.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>.
Don't overlook the section on "Existing versus new lists".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 27 19:12:58 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:12:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam of sorts
In-Reply-To: <20070327132325.D06A4C487@smtp-ext-05.mx.pitdc1.expedient.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703271012580369220885cb@msapiro>

Dave Foran wrote:
>
>So, is this "legal" in the sense of Mailman on the "General options page
>
>Example
>host_name (general): Host name this list prefers for email.   Railnet.org
>
>To also add  nshore.org  so that both valid domain names are there.
>
>host_name (general): Host name this list prefers for email.  Railnet.org,
>nshore.org 


I didn't see this answered in the other replies in this thread.

No it is not legal. It needs to be a single host name which is the name
which will be exposed in email addresses generated by mailman. I.e.,
Mailman will advertise the list posting address as listname at host_name,
the request address as listname-request at host_name, etc, so it should
be the single host name you prefer to use for the list.

Mailman also sends certain owner notices to listname-owner at host_name,
and it expects to receive those back as messages for the 'owner' which
it resends to the actual owners and moderators. Thus, host_name must
also be a host that the outgoing MTA knows how to route back to
Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 27 19:43:30 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:43:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Behind cPanel
In-Reply-To: <00b701c76ffe$bf9f6860$6701a8c0@actualshop>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703271043300369e2fc232f@msapiro>

JB at comcast wrote:
>
>Is it possible to delete Archives from a MailMan List when it is "run" by cPanel (and how)??


It depends on whether or not you have access to the underlying file
system. If you do,
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>
is relevant. The mailman installation is said to be at
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman.

If you don't have access to the file system and can't enlist the help
of someone who does, you have to delete the list and it's archives and
then recreate the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dave at hamnet.org  Tue Mar 27 20:01:53 2007
From: dave at hamnet.org (Dave Foran)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 14:01:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703271043300369e2fc232f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070327180150.66ADF4C31C@smtp-ext-02.mx.pitdc1.expedient.net>

Allow me to ask this regarding Archives

As stated I have some lists I created to replace what was being done by
Smartlist, and the SmartList archive is extensive..  One going back maybe 8
years.

Is there a feasible way to import the old archives into MailMan archives in
some fashion ??

I Guess I would like to have a yealry volume..

THANKS 

Dave
 



JB at comcast wrote:
>
>Is it possible to delete Archives from a MailMan List when it is "run" by
cPanel (and how)??


It depends on whether or not you have access to the underlying file system.
If you do,
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>
is relevant. The mailman installation is said to be at
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman.

If you don't have access to the file system and can't enlist the help of
someone who does, you have to delete the list and it's archives and then
recreate the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dave%40hamnet.org

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From jock.coats at jcsolutions.co.uk  Tue Mar 27 21:47:07 2007
From: jock.coats at jcsolutions.co.uk (Jock Coats)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:47:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not getting aliases,
	owner notification on newlist
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703270845410281101f21a2@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200703270845410281101f21a2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <EB322C6A-A819-4542-83B7-F150DAC613D6@jcsolutions.co.uk>

On 27 Mar 2007, at 16:45, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I'd go back to 2.1.9 because you have the same problem with the Debian
> package.

Okay - I've done that.  In fact I also installed Python 2.5 from  
source rather than relying on Sarge's 2.4 port just in case it was that.

I appear to have similar problems but...

> Since your outgoing runner dies in the same way with both versions,
> perhaps this is a Python problem, not a mailman problem.

I do not suspect Python any more, but Postfix itself.,,

> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
> for some debugging techniques.

Hacking the SMTPDirect.py handler to increase the debugging  
information produced the following lines in logs/error (for sure this  
time - you were right it was logs/qrunner last time I quoted!):

Mar 27 20:04:00 2007 qrunner(21277): connect:   ('localhost', 25)

...ten times for each attempt to deliver anything, then the  
OutgoingRunner process is terminated.  But when I deleted anything in  
qfiles (there was the "virgin" message from setting up the site list  
sitting there I think it was) and tried bin/qrunner -v -r Outgoing it  
workd and just sat there in foreground apparently.  Until, in another  
shell, I removed and recreated the site list prompting it to try to  
send an outgoing message to the listowner.  As soon as I bin/ 
mailmanctle start - ed after that Outgoing once again collapses with  
those same messages in logs/error.

So, I tried telneting to port 25 on localhost and it drops the  
connection immediately.  I tried telneting to hostname port 25 and it  
worked.  So I've got postfix for some reason that I cannot fathom  
dropping connections from localhost to localhost.  Postfix logs  
"warning: process /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd pid 21392 killed by signal  
11" at this point so I think the answer is not in this forum, but  
something to do with postfix.  I guess I could maybe change the  
outbound mailhost somewhere in Mailman's config could I to see if  
that gets round it for now?

Thanks again,

Jock

--
Jock Coats
Warden's Flat 1e, J Block Morrell Hall, OXFORD, OX3 0FF
w: +44 (0)1865 483353 h: +44 (0)1865 485019
m: +44 (0)7769 695767 e: jock.coats at jcsolutions.co.uk
www: http://jockcoats.blogspot.com/





From justin.denick at gmail.com  Tue Mar 27 22:15:53 2007
From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 16:15:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lock Files
Message-ID: <81e08d920703271315g23c1cb9fjaf20699f5047cc11@mail.gmail.com>

Can anyone think of a reason that one list might use lock files, but other's
wouldn't.
I have about 5 lists, and when mailman is started a lock file (or two) is
created for the list.

listname.lock and listname.lock.webserver.9999.0

This particular list is very slow when navigating the admin pages, While the
other lists (without lock files) are very snappy.

Are the speed issues related?



-- 
In vino veritas.
        [In wine there is truth.]
                -- Pliny

From info at stonebyte.de  Tue Mar 27 22:28:26 2007
From: info at stonebyte.de (Info)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 22:28:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Postfix and MySQL
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703250925110062421bd509@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200703250925110062421bd509@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46097E6A.1030202@stonebyte.de>

Mark Sapiro schrieb:
> Info wrote:
>> well, i have a problem integrating mailman with postfix. I manage my
>> virtual domains and aliases through mysql and a PHP-Frontend.
>> Mailman is running and i could create the global list "mailman"
>> So far so good, but how can i use the generated aliases with mysql?
> 
> 
> You can use a hash for the Mailman aliases even though you use mysql.
> 
> See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html> - in particular,
> subsections 6.1.1 and 6.1.2.
> 

Mark Sapiro schrieb:
 > Info wrote:
 >> well, i have a problem integrating mailman with postfix. I manage my
 >> virtual domains and aliases through mysql and a PHP-Frontend.
 >> Mailman is running and i could create the global list "mailman"
 >> So far so good, but how can i use the generated aliases with mysql?
 >
 >
 > You can use a hash for the Mailman aliases even though you use mysql.
 >
 > See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html> - in particular,
 > subsections 6.1.1 and 6.1.2.
 >

Hi Mark,

thank you for your reply. I?ve poked around with the options and now i 
think i?m a step further.
These are the relevant options from main.cf:

alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, 
hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix
debug_peer_level = 7
fallback_transport = virtual
home_mailbox = /home/vmail/
html_directory = no
inet_interfaces = all
local_destination_concurrency_limit = 5
local_destination_recipient_limit = 300
local_recipient_maps = $alias_maps, 
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf, unix:passwd.byname
mail_owner = postfix
mailbox_command = /usr/bin/maildrop -d "$USER"
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq
manpage_directory = /usr/share/man
mydestination = centos.exampledomain.de, localhost.$mydomain, localhost
mydomain = exampledomain.de
myhostname = centos.exampledomain.de
mynetworks = 10.10.1.0/27, 127.0.0.0/8
myorigin = $mydomain
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases
owner_request_special = no
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.2.10/README_FILES
recipient_delimiter = +
sample_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.2.10/samples
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail
setgid_group = postdrop
smtp_tls_note_starttls_offer = yes
smtp_use_tls = yes
smtpd_enforce_tls = no
smtpd_etrn_restrictions = reject
smtpd_helo_required = yes
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, 
permit_sasl_authenticated, reject_non_fqdn_hostname, 
reject_non_fqdn_sender, reject_non_fqdn_recipient, 
reject_unauth_destination, reject_unauth_pipelining, 
reject_invalid_hostname, reject_rbl_client opm.blitzed.org, 
reject_rbl_client list.dsbl.org, reject_rbl_client bl.spamcop.net, 
reject_rbl_client sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $myhostname
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
smtpd_tls_CAfile = /etc/postfix/ssl/cacert.pem
smtpd_tls_auth_only = no
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/postfix/ssl/smtpd.crt
smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/postfix/ssl/smtpd.key
smtpd_tls_loglevel = 2
smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
smtpd_tls_session_cache_timeout = 3600s
smtpd_use_tls = yes
tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, 
hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
virtual_destination_recipient_limit = 1
virtual_gid_maps = static:1001
virtual_mailbox_base = /home/vmail/
virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_domains_maps.cf
virtual_mailbox_limit = 51200000
virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf
virtual_minimum_uid = 1000
virtual_transport = maildrop
virtual_uid_maps = static:1001

and this one from mailman:

DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = "www.exampledomain2.de"
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = "exampledomain2.de"

When i try to send an email i get the error:

Recipient address rejected:User unknown in virtual mailbox table

The domain exampledomain2.de is already in the mysql table
When i add the following line to main.cf

mydestination = centos.exampledomain.de, exampledomain2.de, 
localhost.$mydomain, localhost

the message gets send but the following error is logged:

postfix/trivial-rewrite[18195]: warning: do not list domain 
exampledomain2.de in BOTH mydestination and virtual_mailbox_domains


postfix/virtual[18269]: fatal: open 
/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf: Permission denied
Mar 27 20:25:37 centos postfix/master[15551]: warning: process 
/usr/libexec/postfix/virtual pid 18269 exit status 1

now i?m stucked. Can someone give me a hint?
Thank you

Christian

From jock.coats at jcsolutions.co.uk  Tue Mar 27 22:29:59 2007
From: jock.coats at jcsolutions.co.uk (Jock Coats)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:29:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not getting aliases,
	owner notification on newlist
In-Reply-To: <EB322C6A-A819-4542-83B7-F150DAC613D6@jcsolutions.co.uk>
References: <PC1760200703270845410281101f21a2@msapiro>
	<EB322C6A-A819-4542-83B7-F150DAC613D6@jcsolutions.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B5E2D750-11D6-4B1B-B81A-58AF359C8963@jcsolutions.co.uk>

On 27 Mar 2007, at 20:47, Jock Coats wrote:

> I guess I could maybe change the
> outbound mailhost somewhere in Mailman's config could I to see if
> that gets round it for now?

Setting SMTPHOST = 'FQDN' (even though it is actually localhost) does  
appear to have worked.  Until  I have more leisure to investigate it  
I shall assume that postfix has a jolly good reason for refusing a  
request for localhost, but I can't work out what it might be from my  
main.cf.

Thanks for the pointers though - it would have taken me ages to start  
lookingat postfix as part of the problem!!

Jock
--
Jock Coats
Warden's Flat 1e, J Block Morrell Hall, OXFORD, OX3 0FF
w: +44 (0)1865 483353 h: +44 (0)1865 485019
m: +44 (0)7769 695767 e: jock.coats at jcsolutions.co.uk
www: http://jockcoats.blogspot.com/





From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 27 22:52:21 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 13:52:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lock Files
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920703271315g23c1cb9fjaf20699f5047cc11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703271352210776a6218bdd@msapiro>

Justin Denick wrote:

>Can anyone think of a reason that one list might use lock files, but other's
>wouldn't.
>I have about 5 lists, and when mailman is started a lock file (or two) is
>created for the list.
>
>listname.lock and listname.lock.webserver.9999.0


9999 is the pid of the process that set the lock. webserver is the name
of the host on which it is running. What process is this? Is it the
web server or one of its children or is it one of Mailman's qrunners?
If it is a qrunner, which one?

>This particular list is very slow when navigating the admin pages, While the
>other lists (without lock files) are very snappy.
>
>Are the speed issues related?


Yes, It seems something keeps locking the list for some reason. The
admin interface has to keep waiting for the lock to be relinquished.
The question is what other process keeps locking the list and why?

Also check Mailman's 'locks' log if there is one, and Mailman's 'error'
log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 28 00:01:07 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:01:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <20070327180150.66ADF4C31C@smtp-ext-02.mx.pitdc1.expedient.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032715010701195bed805e@msapiro>

Dave Foran wrote:

>Allow me to ask this regarding Archives
>
>As stated I have some lists I created to replace what was being done by
>Smartlist, and the SmartList archive is extensive..  One going back maybe 8
>years.
>
>Is there a feasible way to import the old archives into MailMan archives in
>some fashion ??


If you can get the old archives in *nix mbox format, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq05.001.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 28 00:24:12 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:24:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lock Files
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920703271404p4cb5839n6f7c2a6f312732a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703271524120026757bed06@msapiro>

Justin Denick wrote:
>
>There are (3) 'currently'  lock files. They are for /bin/mailmanctl and the
>qrunners
>ArchRunner and OutgoingRunner.


The files 'master-qrunner' and 'master-qrunner.host.pid' are not list
locks. They are the lock that prevent starting mailmanctl when it's
already running.

Are there entries in Mailman's smtp-failure log?


Is there only one listname.lock file and two listname.lock.host.pid.seq
files? If so, one pid has the lock and the other is waiting.

Do the timestamps and other things about these lock files change over
time?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.076.htp>.


>Also check Mailman's 'locks' log if there is one, and Mailman's 'error'
>
>
>
>Here's some output from the locks log
>
>Mar 27 17:00:33 2007 (32114)   File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 115, in _dispose
>Mar 27 17:00:33 2007 (32114)     mlist.Lock
>(timeout=mm_cfg.LIST_LOCK_TIMEOUT)
>Mar 27 17:00:33 2007 (32114)   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py",
>line 159, in Lock
>Mar 27 17:00:33 2007 (32114)     self.__lock.lock(timeout)
>Mar 27 17:00:33 2007 (32114)   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py",
>line 260, in lock
>Mar 27 17:00:33 2007 (32114)     self.__writelog('got the lock')
>Mar 27 17:00:33 2007 (32114)   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py",
>line 416, in __writelog
>Mar 27 17:00:33 2007 (32114)     traceback.print_stack(file=logf)


I'm not sure why the above trace is logged at all, but I don't think is
is significant.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dave at hamnet.org  Wed Mar 28 00:21:22 2007
From: dave at hamnet.org (Dave Foran)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 18:21:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007032715010701195bed805e@msapiro> from "Mark Sapiro" at
	Mar 27, 2007 03:01:07 PM
Message-ID: <200703272221.l2RMLMSW013964@hamnet.org>

| 
| Dave Foran wrote:
| 
| >Allow me to ask this regarding Archives
| >
| >As stated I have some lists I created to replace what was being done by
| >Smartlist, and the SmartList archive is extensive..  One going back maybe 8
| >years.
| >
| >Is there a feasible way to import the old archives into MailMan archives in
| >some fashion ??
| 
| 
| If you can get the old archives in *nix mbox format, see
| <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq05.001.htp>.
They are plan text persay on a Linux box  Should be easy

Thanks, again

Dave


| 
| -- 
| Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
| San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
| 


-- 
Dave Foran                              Internet ONLY:  dave at hamnet.org
            Cruise Missile Coordinates 41.36.978N 81.25.867W 

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 28 05:54:51 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:54:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Postfix and MySQL
In-Reply-To: <46097E6A.1030202@stonebyte.de>
References: <PC1760200703250925110062421bd509@msapiro>
	<46097E6A.1030202@stonebyte.de>
Message-ID: <4609E70B.5080006@value.net>

Info wrote:
> 
> thank you for your reply. I?ve poked around with the options and now i 
> think i?m a step further.
> These are the relevant options from main.cf:
> 
> alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, 
> hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
> broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
> command_directory = /usr/sbin
> config_directory = /etc/postfix
> daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix
> debug_peer_level = 7
> fallback_transport = virtual
> home_mailbox = /home/vmail/
> html_directory = no
> inet_interfaces = all
> local_destination_concurrency_limit = 5
> local_destination_recipient_limit = 300
> local_recipient_maps = $alias_maps, 
> mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf, unix:passwd.byname
> mail_owner = postfix
> mailbox_command = /usr/bin/maildrop -d "$USER"
> mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq
> manpage_directory = /usr/share/man
> mydestination = centos.exampledomain.de, localhost.$mydomain, localhost
> mydomain = exampledomain.de
> myhostname = centos.exampledomain.de
> mynetworks = 10.10.1.0/27, 127.0.0.0/8
> myorigin = $mydomain
> newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases
> owner_request_special = no
> queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
> readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.2.10/README_FILES
> recipient_delimiter = +
> sample_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.2.10/samples
> sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail
> setgid_group = postdrop
> smtp_tls_note_starttls_offer = yes
> smtp_use_tls = yes
> smtpd_enforce_tls = no
> smtpd_etrn_restrictions = reject
> smtpd_helo_required = yes
> smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, 
> permit_sasl_authenticated, reject_non_fqdn_hostname, 
> reject_non_fqdn_sender, reject_non_fqdn_recipient, 
> reject_unauth_destination, reject_unauth_pipelining, 
> reject_invalid_hostname, reject_rbl_client opm.blitzed.org, 
> reject_rbl_client list.dsbl.org, reject_rbl_client bl.spamcop.net, 
> reject_rbl_client sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org
> smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
> smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $myhostname
> smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
> smtpd_tls_CAfile = /etc/postfix/ssl/cacert.pem
> smtpd_tls_auth_only = no
> smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/postfix/ssl/smtpd.crt
> smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/postfix/ssl/smtpd.key
> smtpd_tls_loglevel = 2
> smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
> smtpd_tls_session_cache_timeout = 3600s
> smtpd_use_tls = yes
> tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom
> unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
> virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, 
> hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman


It doesn't look as if you have multiple domains for Mailman so you don't 
need to reference virtual-mailman, and it appears that you may have 
added the entire virtual_alias_maps for Mailman. If so, I think you can 
remove it.

Caveat: I don't know Postfix.


> virtual_destination_recipient_limit = 1
> virtual_gid_maps = static:1001
> virtual_mailbox_base = /home/vmail/
> virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_domains_maps.cf
> virtual_mailbox_limit = 51200000
> virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf
> virtual_minimum_uid = 1000
> virtual_transport = maildrop
> virtual_uid_maps = static:1001
> 
> and this one from mailman:
> 
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = "www.exampledomain2.de"
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = "exampledomain2.de"
> 
> When i try to send an email i get the error:
> 
> Recipient address rejected:User unknown in virtual mailbox table
> 
> The domain exampledomain2.de is already in the mysql table
> When i add the following line to main.cf
> 
> mydestination = centos.exampledomain.de, exampledomain2.de, 
> localhost.$mydomain, localhost
> 
> the message gets send but the following error is logged:
> 
> postfix/trivial-rewrite[18195]: warning: do not list domain 
> exampledomain2.de in BOTH mydestination and virtual_mailbox_domains
> 
> 
> postfix/virtual[18269]: fatal: open 
> /etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf: Permission denied
> Mar 27 20:25:37 centos postfix/master[15551]: warning: process 
> /usr/libexec/postfix/virtual pid 18269 exit status 1
> 
> now i?m stucked. Can someone give me a hint?


If all your Mailman lists are in the same domain, you don't need any of 
the things in section 6.1.2 of the installation manual.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Mar 28 05:12:33 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 22:12:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not getting aliases,
 owner notification on newlist
In-Reply-To: <EB322C6A-A819-4542-83B7-F150DAC613D6@jcsolutions.co.uk>
References: <PC1760200703270845410281101f21a2@msapiro>
	<EB322C6A-A819-4542-83B7-F150DAC613D6@jcsolutions.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p06240500c22f8cf4490c@[10.0.1.201]>

At 8:47 PM +0100 3/27/07, Jock Coats wrote:

>  Okay - I've done that.  In fact I also installed Python 2.5 from
>  source rather than relying on Sarge's 2.4 port just in case it was that.

No, you really want Python 2.4.4, not 2.3.anything or 2.5.anything. 
The problem is that 2.3.anything is to old (and breaks things in the 
Mailman code), and 2.5.anything is too new (and breaks things in the 
Mailman code).

Trust me, you really want the latest release from the 2.4 tree, for 
use with Mailman 2.1.9.

>  So, I tried telneting to port 25 on localhost and it drops the
>  connection immediately.  I tried telneting to hostname port 25 and it
>  worked.  So I've got postfix for some reason that I cannot fathom
>  dropping connections from localhost to localhost.

There's the problem.  Postfix probably isn't configured to listen on 
the localhost IP address.  Try adding that to the list of interfaces 
for postfix to listen on.

>                                 I guess I could maybe change the
>  outbound mailhost somewhere in Mailman's config could I to see if
>  that gets round it for now?

That could also work.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From malpern at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 08:37:49 2007
From: malpern at gmail.com (Micah Alpern)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 23:37:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for a Mailman contractor
Message-ID: <c47a52fa0703272337gedb21e2td8e66e845508b7d@mail.gmail.com>

Can someone recommend a contractor who is experienced at customizing
Mailman? The Interaction Design Association (http://www.ixda.org) is looking
for assistance modifying the subscribe/unsubscribe process to allow
synchronization with an external web application.  Please contact me for
additional details or leads on potential contractors.

Thanks you,

Micah Alpern

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Wed Mar 28 16:54:24 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:54:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for a Mailman contractor
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Micah Alpern" <malpern@gmail.com>'
	dated: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 23:37:49 -0700
Message-ID: <200703281454.l2SEsOOL013058@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Micah Alpern wrote:

>Can someone recommend a contractor who is experienced at customizing
>Mailman? The Interaction Design Association (http://www.ixda.org) is looking
>for assistance modifying the subscribe/unsubscribe process to allow
>synchronization with an external web application.  Please contact me for
>additional details or leads on potential contractors.

I am not sure of the technical details of what you want, but I am
getting ready to implement some Mailman lists where the list is
maintained externally.  I know the schedule when the list file is
updated in a shared file system (in my case AFS), so I have written
a cron script that

    1) compares the AFS file with the last one downloaded from AFS.

    2) If there are changes, then 
 
       a) Download the updated file from AFS
 
       b) remove_members --all --nouserack --noadminack $destfile
          add_members -w n -r $localfile $destfile

       Step 2b) can be replaced with "sync_members ..."

Different files are updated once a day in AFS, and I know the when each
list will be updated.  So for each list, my cron will run a few minutes
after the updated file is stored in AFS.

If you know the schedule when the web-based file will change, then you
can implement something like this.  You could even run such a cron
every five minutes, if you do not know when the list might be updated.
I have other lists that are built on-the-fly at any time, and the list
administrator wants to use them as soon as they are created in AFS.
For these, an every-five-minute cron is not good, as I cannot prevent
the list being used before it is updated.  I currently have no solution
for getting these lists from AFS to the local Mailman machine, as I do
not know when any list will be updated.  And I have not figured out how
to have the list creator (a live person or a script) send some sort of
signal to a root process on the Mailman machine to download the updated
list file from AFS.

Note that I have tested the script on my test Mailman machine, but I
have not yet converted any of these lists from Majordomo to Mailman.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 16:57:38 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:57:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for a Mailman contractor
In-Reply-To: <200703281454.l2SEsOOL013058@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <malpern@gmail.com>
	<200703281454.l2SEsOOL013058@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00703280757l4b5b8269jcc02125d3c2fe053@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/28/07, Barry Finkel <b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov> wrote:
> If you know the schedule when the web-based file will change, then you
> can implement something like this.  You could even run such a cron
> every five minutes, if you do not know when the list might be updated.
> I have other lists that are built on-the-fly at any time, and the list
> administrator wants to use them as soon as they are created in AFS.
> For these, an every-five-minute cron is not good, as I cannot prevent
> the list being used before it is updated.  I currently have no solution
> for getting these lists from AFS to the local Mailman machine, as I do
> not know when any list will be updated.  And I have not figured out how
> to have the list creator (a live person or a script) send some sort of
> signal to a root process on the Mailman machine to download the updated
> list file from AFS.
>
> Note that I have tested the script on my test Mailman machine, but I
> have not yet converted any of these lists from Majordomo to Mailman.

Maybe I missed something, but it seems like the best solution for your
later case would be to use MySQL storage of membership, and have your
web application write to said MySQL database?

- Patrick Bogen

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From ona at its.ac.id  Wed Mar 28 18:59:36 2007
From: ona at its.ac.id (Andi Mappesona)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 23:59:36 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to customizing mailman,,,?
Message-ID: <460A9EF8.2020306@its.ac.id>

I have a task to implement a mailing list in my campus, and I've choose 
to use mailman, but I want to customize mailman like yahoogroups.

can someone give me some tips how to start this job ?

Thanks you

Andi Mappesona

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Wed Mar 28 20:41:09 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:41:09 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for a Mailman contractor
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen@gmail.com>'
	dated: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:57:38 -0500
Message-ID: <200703281841.l2SIf9W9019176@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

On 3/28/07, Barry Finkel <b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov> wrote:
>> If you know the schedule when the web-based file will change, then you
>> can implement something like this.  You could even run such a cron
>> every five minutes, if you do not know when the list might be updated.
>> I have other lists that are built on-the-fly at any time, and the list
>> administrator wants to use them as soon as they are created in AFS.
>> For these, an every-five-minute cron is not good, as I cannot prevent
>> the list being used before it is updated.  I currently have no solution
>> for getting these lists from AFS to the local Mailman machine, as I do
>> not know when any list will be updated.  And I have not figured out how
>> to have the list creator (a live person or a script) send some sort of
>> signal to a root process on the Mailman machine to download the updated
>> list file from AFS.
>>
>> Note that I have tested the script on my test Mailman machine, but I
>> have not yet converted any of these lists from Majordomo to Mailman.

And Patrick Bogen replied:
>Maybe I missed something, but it seems like the best solution for your
>later case would be to use MySQL storage of membership, and have your
>web application write to said MySQL database?

One thing that I did not mention - I can used the shared AFS storage
to retrieve updated list files, but I am not allowed to store any
list information in AFS.  For example, I cannot place the directory
with the list .pck files in AFS.  So, any process that changes an AFS
list file (not on a set schedule) somehow has to signal the Mailman
machine that there is an updated file in AFS to be processed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Mar 28 20:41:52 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:41:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for a Mailman contractor
In-Reply-To: <c47a52fa0703272337gedb21e2td8e66e845508b7d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c47a52fa0703272337gedb21e2td8e66e845508b7d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240504c230670965d2@[10.0.1.201]>

At 11:37 PM -0700 3/27/07, Micah Alpern wrote:

>  Can someone recommend a contractor who is experienced at customizing
>  Mailman?

See FAQ 1.17.  So far as I know, there is no more up-to-date 
information than is represented or linked from there.

If anyone has any more up-to-date information, we would ask that 
people update the FAQ Wizard and the wiki pages that are linked, so 
that we don't have to continually refer back to the archives of this 
list.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Mar 28 20:43:14 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:43:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to customizing mailman,,,?
In-Reply-To: <460A9EF8.2020306@its.ac.id>
References: <460A9EF8.2020306@its.ac.id>
Message-ID: <p06240505c23067777f97@[10.0.1.201]>

At 11:59 PM +0700 3/28/07, Andi Mappesona wrote:

>  I have a task to implement a mailing list in my campus, and I've choose
>  to use mailman, but I want to customize mailman like yahoogroups.
>
>  can someone give me some tips how to start this job ?

Read the documentation.  Search the FAQ Wizard.  Start with FAQs 1.26 
and the related FAQ entries which are cross-linked.  The search the 
archives of this list, in accordance with FAQ 1.18.

When you're done with that, read FAQs 1.22 and 1.23.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From spambird at gmx.net  Thu Mar 29 00:01:13 2007
From: spambird at gmx.net (Tommy Braun)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:01:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ERROR: Illegal list name: mailman@true
Message-ID: <v8pl03h1bjb27pnpka1a9gmjgk89vuhbeb@4ax.com>

Hi,

I want to use mailman on debian etch.

Install seems to go fine.

Then with "newlist mailman" I get the starnge error:

Illegal list name: mailman at true

what is givin "true" here?

"hostname" gives a valid hostname. 

I am stuck, please helkp, mailman needs to be working tomorrow!


THANKS!!!


Tommy

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 29 03:35:12 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:35:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ERROR: Illegal list name: mailman@true
In-Reply-To: <v8pl03h1bjb27pnpka1a9gmjgk89vuhbeb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070328183512006265dbae2a@msapiro>

Tommy Braun wrote:
>
>Then with "newlist mailman" I get the starnge error:
>
>Illegal list name: mailman at true
>
>what is givin "true" here?


It comes from DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST must both be fully qualified
domain names. If they are not correct in Defaults.py, you have to
assign them the correct values in mm_cfg.py and also fix the
VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary as follows:

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.example.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

The first two lines should have your actual FQDNs. The second two lines
are copied as is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From briano at aiaa.org  Thu Mar 29 04:02:26 2007
From: briano at aiaa.org (Brian Oliver)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:02:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 Different Domains on Same Server - Is this
	Possible?
Message-ID: <460B1E32.2080402@aiaa.org>

I already have an instance of mailman running with about 100 mailists.  
My client is now asking if I could host another domain on the same 
server.  So basically, I would require two web instances of mailman on 
the same box, because the clients are unique.

Is this possible, or will I have to procure and stage another mailman 
server?

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 29 05:40:21 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:40:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 Different Domains on Same Server - Is
	thisPossible?
In-Reply-To: <460B1E32.2080402@aiaa.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703282040210015c85c10c4@msapiro>

Brian Oliver wrote:

>I already have an instance of mailman running with about 100 mailists.  
>My client is now asking if I could host another domain on the same 
>server.  So basically, I would require two web instances of mailman on 
>the same box, because the clients are unique.
>
>Is this possible, or will I have to procure and stage another mailman 
>server?


You don't need a second server. You can run two separate instances of
Mailman on the same server. This allows the two instances to be
completely separate and independent. Your web server and MTA have to
be configured to execute the proper cgi and mail wrappers depending on
domain.

Yo can also use Mailman's virtual domain capability to run only one
instance of Mailman supporting two domains. This does not provide the
separation of two instances. List names must be unique across the
installation (going away in 2.2), and it is possible to access the
other domain's listinfo pages if you know their list names, but the
listinfo and admin overviews will show only the lists for the
accessing domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From briano at aiaa.org  Thu Mar 29 05:55:25 2007
From: briano at aiaa.org (Brian Oliver)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 23:55:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 Different Domains on Same Server - Is
	thisPossible?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200703282040210015c85c10c4@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200703282040210015c85c10c4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <460B38AD.4050502@aiaa.org>

I think I can sell the virtual domain capabilities to my client.  Any 
pointers out there to help get me started?  Also, will implementing this 
pose great risk on breaking my existing mailman configurable (meaning 
can I break the entire server by trying to implement this)?

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Brian Oliver wrote:
>
>   
>> I already have an instance of mailman running with about 100 mailists.  
>> My client is now asking if I could host another domain on the same 
>> server.  So basically, I would require two web instances of mailman on 
>> the same box, because the clients are unique.
>>
>> Is this possible, or will I have to procure and stage another mailman 
>> server?
>>     
>
>
> You don't need a second server. You can run two separate instances of
> Mailman on the same server. This allows the two instances to be
> completely separate and independent. Your web server and MTA have to
> be configured to execute the proper cgi and mail wrappers depending on
> domain.
>
> Yo can also use Mailman's virtual domain capability to run only one
> instance of Mailman supporting two domains. This does not provide the
> separation of two instances. List names must be unique across the
> installation (going away in 2.2), and it is possible to access the
> other domain's listinfo pages if you know their list names, but the
> listinfo and admin overviews will show only the lists for the
> accessing domain.
>
>   

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Mar 29 06:07:49 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 23:07:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 Different Domains on Same Server - Is this
 Possible?
In-Reply-To: <460B1E32.2080402@aiaa.org>
References: <460B1E32.2080402@aiaa.org>
Message-ID: <p06240501c230ebea8a4a@[10.0.1.201]>

At 10:02 PM -0400 3/28/07, Brian Oliver wrote:

>  I already have an instance of mailman running with about 100 mailists.
>  My client is now asking if I could host another domain on the same
>  server.  So basically, I would require two web instances of mailman on
>  the same box, because the clients are unique.

See FAQ 4.47, and then see FAQs 1.22 and 1.23.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 29 06:20:59 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 21:20:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 Different Domains on Same Server - Is
	thisPossible?
In-Reply-To: <460B38AD.4050502@aiaa.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032821205908282b45d077@msapiro>

Brian Oliver wrote:
>
>I think I can sell the virtual domain capabilities to my client.  Any 
>pointers out there to help get me started?  Also, will implementing this 
>pose great risk on breaking my existing mailman configurable (meaning 
>can I break the entire server by trying to implement this)?


The Mailman part of it is very simple and easily reversed.

In Defaults.py you have

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'www.example.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mail.example.com'

where the domains are yours or ??

There is also a

#####
# Virtual domains
#####

section which you should read and which contains

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)


Those lines may be repeated in mm_cfg.py with the same or different
domain names.

The sole change to Mailman is to add

add_virtualhost('www2.example.com', 'mail2.example.com')

to mm_cfg.py where the actual domain names are those of the second
domain.

You will also need to set up the web server and MTA for the second
domains.

Then you can create lists in the second domain with bin/newlist (see
bin/newlist --help) or by visiting the mailman/create page from the
second domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From spambird at gmx.net  Thu Mar 29 08:48:16 2007
From: spambird at gmx.net (Tommy Braun)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:48:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ERROR: Illegal list name: mailman@true
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070328183512006265dbae2a@msapiro>
References: <v8pl03h1bjb27pnpka1a9gmjgk89vuhbeb@4ax.com>
	<PC176020070328183512006265dbae2a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <18om03p977lv0sgjfnfdam5bk25o7erh52@4ax.com>

HI,

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:35:12 -0700, you wrote:

>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.example.com'
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
>VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

yupp, that was it!!! Thanks!


Have a nice day,
Tommy

From simonh at uec.co.za  Thu Mar 29 11:51:55 2007
From: simonh at uec.co.za (Simon Hoffe)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:51:55 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using MailMan for issue/bug dialogue tracking
Message-ID: <460B8C3B.8090408@uec.co.za>

Hi All,

*Intro*
I'm trying to come up with a best-fit and easy-to-use system to track 
issues/bugs.

There are plenty of good web-based trackers out there. BugZilla (the old 
stalwort), Mantis, Trac, FlySpray, etc, etc.

However, my employer produces made-to-order electronics and my division 
writes embedded C. When a bug report comes in from a customer, what 
usually follows is a lengthy email dialogue as we try and reproduce the 
bug, pull in 3rd parties, verify the fix on their side, etc.

I'd like to have that dialogue captured as part of the bug history, and 
I don't want to tell everyone that they're going to have to use some web 
interface when they all know and love their email and the "Reply-All" 
button.

One promising candidate for this functionality is Roundup - the bug 
tracker recently (Oct 06) adopted by the Python project, though I think 
it's still in Beta. (See http://psf.upfronthosting.co.za/roundup/meta/) 
Another which may support it is ZenTrack, but I still need to verify 
what functionality it offers.

Roundup doesn't quite have the polish and some of the nice-to-haves 
(like multiple modules/projects) found in more established tools like 
Trac or Mantis.

*So what I want to do:*
Use MailMan as a backend, and once a bug is registered, the Mailman 
managed address: bugtrack at company.com gets cc'ed on every email that 
relates to the bug. In the subject line there needs to be a [ID:xxxx] 
field, but the rest of the subject must be free to change. (even better, 
be able to cc bugtrack-idxxxx at company.com)

Whoever wants to be in the loop on all bugs can just subscribe to the 
list. By visiting the web archive interface you can see exactly what's 
going on. And by including a link to a particular thread 
(automatically?) in the Trac/Mantis database you can link there directly.

*Where I need some advice:*
How does MailMan sort out threads. Does it use the whole subject line, 
and resolves tree depth from the number of "Re:"'s?
How easy/hard would it be to make the thread sorter sensitive only to an 
[ID:xxxx] tag in the subject?

Is the idea of bugtrack-idxxxx at company.com an easy-to-implement option?

I'm pretty sure that MailMan will allow anonymous/non-subscriber posts, 
but can I toss out all email which hasn't been correctly tagged.

Finally (and this is probably in the FAQ, so I'm being lazy by 
asking...) - what is the best mechanism of backing up a complete MailMan 
installation?

Many thanks,

Simon


From james at hjl.ca  Thu Mar 29 18:18:35 2007
From: james at hjl.ca (James D. Lainton)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 10:18:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] my email to a list - getting it back!
Message-ID: <923e28000703290918n411d8544je128d4df2aa20040@mail.gmail.com>

I know this is probably a VERY easy option for most of you, but for the life
of me, I cant find it.

I have a list that i have started and its working very well.  However the
poster does not receive his own message, even though he is part of the
list.  I can setup an autorepond telling him/her that it was recieved and
sent out, but it would be more straight forward to have the original message
just come back as part of the list.  I know the option is there...just need
to find out where.

Thanks!
-- 
-----------
James D. LaintoN

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Mar 29 18:28:24 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 09:28:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] my email to a list - getting it back!
In-Reply-To: <923e28000703290918n411d8544je128d4df2aa20040@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <923e28000703290918n411d8544je128d4df2aa20040@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200703291629.l2TGSP4a001845@unreal.eroded.org>

James D. Lainton wrote:
>I know this is probably a VERY easy option for most of you, but for the life
>of me, I cant find it.
>
>I have a list that i have started and its working very well.  However the
>poster does not receive his own message, even though he is part of the
>list.  I can setup an autorepond telling him/her that it was recieved and
>sent out, but it would be more straight forward to have the original message
>just come back as part of the list.  I know the option is there...just need
>to find out where.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Is this just one person? Is this person using Gmail?

Gmail tries to be "helpful" by silently discarding any e-mails that 
match ones in the sent folder.

There has been much complaining about this behavior and as far as I 
know, Google has no plans to fix this "feature".


If that is not the case, then go to that person's options page 
(Membership Management-> Membership List, then click on the person's 
e-mail address) and check that the person has "Receive your own posts 
to the list?" set to yes.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Mar 29 20:23:29 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 13:23:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using MailMan for issue/bug dialogue tracking
In-Reply-To: <460B8C3B.8090408@uec.co.za>
References: <460B8C3B.8090408@uec.co.za>
Message-ID: <p06240500c231b2d6294f@[10.0.1.201]>

At 11:51 AM +0200 3/29/07, Simon Hoffe wrote:

>  One promising candidate for this functionality is Roundup - the bug
>  tracker recently (Oct 06) adopted by the Python project, though I think
>  it's still in Beta. (See http://psf.upfronthosting.co.za/roundup/meta/)

We're working on it.  I have some more changes to the mail system for 
python.org that need to be implemented before we can take the next 
step.

>  *Where I need some advice:*
>  How does MailMan sort out threads. Does it use the whole subject line,
>  and resolves tree depth from the number of "Re:"'s?
>  How easy/hard would it be to make the thread sorter sensitive only to an
>  [ID:xxxx] tag in the subject?

Mailman uses the contents of the "References:" and "In-Reply-To:" 
headers, not the "Subject:" line, although it will do some trimming 
on the subject line to try to keep it more sane.

>  Is the idea of bugtrack-idxxxx at company.com an easy-to-implement option?

Within Mailman?  No, not really.  At least, not so far as I know.

Why not just use a different topic for each bug?  That way people who 
want information on all bugs can subscribe to the list and not track 
specific topics, while others who want information on just that one 
bug can track that one topic.

>  I'm pretty sure that MailMan will allow anonymous/non-subscriber posts,

Yup.  It's just a configuration option.

Of course, then you have to worry about everyone getting hit by spam 
which is addressed to the list.

>  Finally (and this is probably in the FAQ, so I'm being lazy by
>  asking...) - what is the best mechanism of backing up a complete MailMan
>  installation?

Yup, that's in the FAQ.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From justin.denick at gmail.com  Thu Mar 29 20:56:18 2007
From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:56:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer_msg
Message-ID: <81e08d920703291156t576cbd75n9986abe7524ca90f@mail.gmail.com>

what is the code I need to add to have the UNSUBSCRIBE link appear at
the bottom of the messages?

-- 
In vino veritas.
        [In wine there is truth.]
                -- Pliny

From henryhartley at westat.com  Thu Mar 29 21:50:36 2007
From: henryhartley at westat.com (Henry Hartley)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:50:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer_msg
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920703291156t576cbd75n9986abe7524ca90f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <403593359CA56C4CAE1F8F4F00DCFE7D07E1FF15@MAILBE2.westat.com>

Justin Denick wrote:
>> 
>> what is the code I need to add to have the UNSUBSCRIBE link appear
>> at the bottom of the messages?

Through the web interface, click on "Non-digest options" and put the
code in the field labelled "Footer added to mail sent to regular list
members".  The default is the following:
_______________________________________________
%(real_name)s mailing list
%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s

As for editing the configuration files directly, I don't know except
this same text is in /etc/mailman/sitelist.cfg

-- 
Henry

From oxelson at unidata.ucar.edu  Thu Mar 29 22:14:37 2007
From: oxelson at unidata.ucar.edu (Jennifer Oxelson)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:14:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-request lists command
Message-ID: <460C1E2D.8040403@unidata.ucar.edu>

Hello,

I see the 'lists' command set to listname-requests keys off the 
DEFAULT_LIST_ADVERTISED setting in the mm_cfg.py file.  Is there any 
future plans to have the mlist.advertised value come from the actual 
individual list configurations (e.g., *advertised* option set in the web 
admin interface under the privacy setting)?  As it stands now, the 
email-based listname-request lists and the web display of lists provide 
different results (not a big deal, but it has caused some confusion with 
our staff).

Thanks much!





From oxelson at unidata.ucar.edu  Thu Mar 29 22:22:46 2007
From: oxelson at unidata.ucar.edu (Jennifer Oxelson)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:22:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY
Message-ID: <460C2016.1060301@unidata.ucar.edu>

Hi

I've been reading how to increase the # of auto-responses via 
MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY.  I've included this parameter in my mm_cfg.py 
file with the desired number.

However, I was wondering if there was a way override this value once it 
has already been reached for a specific person?  E.g., any commands I 
can issue to reset a specific person back to '0'?

Am I overlooking something?

Thanks much



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Mar 29 22:32:47 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 13:32:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-request lists command
In-Reply-To: <460C1E2D.8040403@unidata.ucar.edu>
References: <460C1E2D.8040403@unidata.ucar.edu>
Message-ID: <200703292033.l2TKWlma003461@unreal.eroded.org>

Jennifer Oxelson sent the message below at 13:14 3/29/2007:
>Hello,
>
>I see the 'lists' command set to listname-requests keys off the
>DEFAULT_LIST_ADVERTISED setting in the mm_cfg.py file.  Is there any
>future plans to have the mlist.advertised value come from the actual
>individual list configurations (e.g., *advertised* option set in the web
>admin interface under the privacy setting)?  As it stands now, the
>email-based listname-request lists and the web display of lists provide
>different results (not a big deal, but it has caused some confusion with
>our staff).
>
>Thanks much!
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

OK, now that is interesting...

I think I see what is going on, maybe.

I have one public list and three private lists on my server.

If I send the lists command to the request address for the public 
list, it only responds with the public list.

If I send the command to one of the private list request addresses, 
it list both the public list and the list I sent it to but not the 
other private lists.

This is probably somewhat correct behavior because if you know the 
address for the private list, it should return it. But what is 
confusing is that the private list shows up under the "Public lists:" 
header in the response e-mail. I think that this private listing 
should have a heading in the reply stating that it is private and is 
listed because of the address used to access the command.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 30 03:18:09 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 18:18:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer_msg
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920703291156t576cbd75n9986abe7524ca90f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703291818090031869f85a8@msapiro>

Justin Denick wrote:

>what is the code I need to add to have the UNSUBSCRIBE link appear at
>the bottom of the messages?


See the second question/answer in the post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-March/056289.html>.

Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.015.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 30 03:55:14 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 18:55:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-request lists command
In-Reply-To: <460C1E2D.8040403@unidata.ucar.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703291855140906f2377758@msapiro>

Jennifer Oxelson wrote:
>
>I see the 'lists' command set to listname-requests keys off the 
>DEFAULT_LIST_ADVERTISED setting in the mm_cfg.py file.


Where do you see that?


>Is there any 
>future plans to have the mlist.advertised value come from the actual 
>individual list configurations (e.g., *advertised* option set in the web 
>admin interface under the privacy setting)?  As it stands now, the 
>email-based listname-request lists and the web display of lists provide 
>different results (not a big deal, but it has caused some confusion with 
>our staff).


As Dragon said in his reply, the lists command only lists those lists
for which advertised is true with the exception that the list you sent
the command to is always listed.

There is another possible reason for the difference. If
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is yes (the default), the lists email command
will list those advertised lists whose host_name attribute matches
that of the list to which the command was sent, whereas the listinfo
and admin overview pages will list those advertised lists whose
web_page_url attribute contains the hostname of the URL used to access
the page. Thus, if there is not a unique mapping between the host in
the list's web_page_url attribute and the list's host_name attribute,
this can cause the two lists to be different.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 30 04:08:46 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 19:08:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY
In-Reply-To: <460C2016.1060301@unidata.ucar.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007032919084602501706bba8@msapiro>

Jennifer Oxelson wrote:
>
>However, I was wondering if there was a way override this value once it 
>has already been reached for a specific person?  E.g., any commands I 
>can issue to reset a specific person back to '0'?


You can use bin/withlist to delete that entry from the
hold_and_cmd_autoresponses dictionary. E.g. in an interactive withlist
session, you might say

>>>del m.hold_and_cmd_autoresponses['user at example.com']
>>>m.Save()

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From macek at fortech.cz  Fri Mar 30 09:04:20 2007
From: macek at fortech.cz (Tomas Macek)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:04:20 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] genaliases problem
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.83.0703300844541.31795@maca.fortech.cz>

Hi, I'm new to Mailman and I have problem with genaliases. I'm using Mailman 2.1.5 on RHEL 4 with Postfix.

I read the /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.5.1/README.POSTFIX and tried to setup postfix like mentioned in 'VIRTUAL DOMAINS' section.

Postfix's /etc/postfix/main.cf:
--------------------------------
virtual_alias_maps =    pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql/alias_domains_maps.cf \
                         pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql/alias_mailbox_maps.cf \
 		        hash:/usr/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

recipient_delimiter = -


Mailman's /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py:
----------------------------------------------
VERP_FORMAT = '%(bounces)s+%(mailbox)s=%(host)s'
VERP_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^+]+?)\-(?P<mailbox>[^=]+)=(?P<host>[^@]+)@.*$'
VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^+]+?)\-(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'
VERP_CONFIRM_FORMAT = '%(addr)s+%(cookie)s'
VERP_CONFIRM_REGEXP = r'^(?P<addr>[^+]+?)\-(?P<cookie>[^@]+)@.*$'

MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['our_domain.com']

I also tried to create a new list by command 'bin/newlist list at our_domain.com' and wrote what I've been asked. Then I created 'data' directory, with chmod and chown, make bin/genaliases and /etc/init.d/mailman restart. After typing genaliases command I expected mailman to create data/virtual-mailman and data/virtual-mailman.db files, but absolutely nothing happened.

What I'm doing wrong? I found nothing about it in README* documents nor in FAQ.

Thank you for help, Tomas



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 30 17:40:04 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 08:40:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] genaliases problem
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.83.0703300844541.31795@maca.fortech.cz>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703300840040593d1f3d5b5@msapiro>

Tomas Macek wrote:

>Hi, I'm new to Mailman and I have problem with genaliases. I'm using Mailman 2.1.5 on RHEL 4 with Postfix.
>
>I read the /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.5.1/README.POSTFIX and tried to setup postfix like mentioned in 'VIRTUAL DOMAINS' section.
>
>Postfix's /etc/postfix/main.cf:
>--------------------------------
>virtual_alias_maps =    pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql/alias_domains_maps.cf \
>                         pgsql:/etc/postfix/pgsql/alias_mailbox_maps.cf \
> 		        hash:/usr/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>
>recipient_delimiter = -
>
>
>Mailman's /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py:
>----------------------------------------------
>VERP_FORMAT = '%(bounces)s+%(mailbox)s=%(host)s'
>VERP_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^+]+?)\-(?P<mailbox>[^=]+)=(?P<host>[^@]+)@.*$'
>VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^+]+?)\-(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'
>VERP_CONFIRM_FORMAT = '%(addr)s+%(cookie)s'
>VERP_CONFIRM_REGEXP = r'^(?P<addr>[^+]+?)\-(?P<cookie>[^@]+)@.*$'
>
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['our_domain.com']
>
>I also tried to create a new list by command 'bin/newlist list at our_domain.com' and wrote what I've been asked.


Were there any error responses from this? If not, and if you had MTA =
'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py at the time, this process should have created
(or updated) the data/aliases* and data/virtual-mailman* files.


>Then I created 'data' directory, with chmod and chown, make bin/genaliases and /etc/init.d/mailman restart. After typing genaliases command I expected mailman to create data/virtual-mailman and data/virtual-mailman.db files, but absolutely nothing happened.


You shouldn't have to create Mailman's data/ directory. It should
already exist in Mailman's VAR_PREFIX directory which should be
defined in Defaults.py.

However if your RedHat package uses RedHat's FHS patch, you will find
the aliases and virtual_mailman files in /etc/mailman/ (see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-October/017343.html>).


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 30 22:31:03 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 13:31:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer_msg
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920703301153s53bf4906ladf3d13c162b80f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007033013310301717a35ec0e@msapiro>

Justin Denick wrote:
>
>Has anyone tried putting href's in place.
>like
>#####<A href ="
>%(user_optionsurl)s?password=%(user_password)s&unsub=1">Unsubscribe<\A>#####
>
>or something like that.


This won't work for at least two reasons


>I tried but mailman kept messing up the html tags


This is one of the reasons. Mailman replaces things like < and > with
&lt; and &gt; to avoid cross site scripting (XSS) attacks.

The main reason this won't work is that the footer appears in a
text/plain message part, so tags will not be interpreted as HTML
anyway, but you can just put something like

To unsubscribe visit
%(user_optionsurl)s?password=%(user_password)s&unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1

in msg_footer and many MUAs will make it a clickable link anyway. Note
that you also need the unsubconfirm=1 which corresponds to the "Yes, I
really want to unsubscribe" checkbox.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jthurston at skyline-ats.com  Fri Mar 30 22:37:12 2007
From: jthurston at skyline-ats.com (Jeff Thurston)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 13:37:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Original sender address stripped from forwarded
	emails.
Message-ID: <20070330203644.90F7117F5DD@mail.skyline-ats.com>

Hello list, I have a rather simple issue with my mailman list server, when
someone forwards an email from the list to someone else, the original
senders email address is removed.

Instead it says the usual:

From: listname-bounces at listserver.com
[mailto:listname-bounces at listserver.com] On Behalf Of John Doe
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 9:19 AM
To: listname at listserver.com
Subject: [Listname] Subject.

---

I read up on the general options for an individual list and saw two
functions that might be the answer but they don't seem to have any effect on
what I am trying to accomplish.
Searching the faq briefly didn't yield much either.

How do I change this behavior to include the email address of the original
sender, instead of just their name?

Thank you in advance for the help!
-Jeff


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 30 23:18:25 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 14:18:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Original sender address stripped from
	forwardedemails.
In-Reply-To: <20070330203644.90F7117F5DD@mail.skyline-ats.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007033014182509377a35ef22@msapiro>

Jeff Thurston wrote:

>Hello list, I have a rather simple issue with my mailman list server, when
>someone forwards an email from the list to someone else, the original
>senders email address is removed.
>
>Instead it says the usual:
>
>From: listname-bounces at listserver.com
>[mailto:listname-bounces at listserver.com] On Behalf Of John Doe
>Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 9:19 AM
>To: listname at listserver.com
>Subject: [Listname] Subject.
>
>---
>
>I read up on the general options for an individual list and saw two
>functions that might be the answer but they don't seem to have any effect on
>what I am trying to accomplish.
>Searching the faq briefly didn't yield much either.
>
>How do I change this behavior to include the email address of the original
>sender, instead of just their name?


This is really a Microsoft Outlook issue, not a Mailman issue. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>
for more.

Note that the original From: Jon Doe <jdoe at example.com> header is not
altered by Mailman. Mailman adds a Sender: header with the list
bounces address, and MS Outlook chooses to show you that information
rather than the address from the From: header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zipfel at greenacrestechnology.com  Fri Mar 30 23:25:09 2007
From: zipfel at greenacrestechnology.com (Krystal F. Zipfel)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:25:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Original sender address stripped
	from	forwardedemails.
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007033014182509377a35ef22@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007033014182509377a35ef22@msapiro>
Message-ID: <460D8035.50608@greenacrestechnology.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Jeff Thurston wrote:
>
>   
>> Hello list, I have a rather simple issue with my mailman list server, when
>> someone forwards an email from the list to someone else, the original
>> senders email address is removed.
>>
>> Instead it says the usual:
>>
>> From: listname-bounces at listserver.com
>> [mailto:listname-bounces at listserver.com] On Behalf Of John Doe
>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 9:19 AM
>> To: listname at listserver.com
>> Subject: [Listname] Subject.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> I read up on the general options for an individual list and saw two
>> functions that might be the answer but they don't seem to have any effect on
>> what I am trying to accomplish.
>> Searching the faq briefly didn't yield much either.
>>
>> How do I change this behavior to include the email address of the original
>> sender, instead of just their name?
>>     
>
>
> This is really a Microsoft Outlook issue, not a Mailman issue. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>
> for more.
>
> Note that the original From: Jon Doe <jdoe at example.com> header is not
> altered by Mailman. Mailman adds a Sender: header with the list
> bounces address, and MS Outlook chooses to show you that information
> rather than the address from the From: header.
>
>   
Not sure it's just Outlook, as Thunderbird does the same. But, 
interesting non-the-less.

Another question along the same lines. Is it possible to "hide" or 
remove the sender? For instance, I want my newsletter to my members to 
only show "listname at listserver.com", as 
"listname-bounces at listserver.com" confuses them.

Thoughts?

From jthurston at skyline-ats.com  Sat Mar 31 00:16:05 2007
From: jthurston at skyline-ats.com (Jeff Thurston)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 15:16:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Original sender address stripped from
	forwardedemails.
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007033014182509377a35ef22@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070330221616.ACE7817F7EE@mail.skyline-ats.com>

I get similar results when using mutt... I'm not sure this is completely
related to Outlook either. I guess I just have to keep looking.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 2:18 PM
To: Jeff Thurston; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Original sender address stripped from
forwardedemails.

Jeff Thurston wrote:

>Hello list, I have a rather simple issue with my mailman list server, when
>someone forwards an email from the list to someone else, the original
>senders email address is removed.
>
>Instead it says the usual:
>
>From: listname-bounces at listserver.com
>[mailto:listname-bounces at listserver.com] On Behalf Of John Doe
>Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 9:19 AM
>To: listname at listserver.com
>Subject: [Listname] Subject.
>
>---
>
>I read up on the general options for an individual list and saw two
>functions that might be the answer but they don't seem to have any effect
on
>what I am trying to accomplish.
>Searching the faq briefly didn't yield much either.
>
>How do I change this behavior to include the email address of the original
>sender, instead of just their name?


This is really a Microsoft Outlook issue, not a Mailman issue. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>
for more.

Note that the original From: Jon Doe <jdoe at example.com> header is not
altered by Mailman. Mailman adds a Sender: header with the list
bounces address, and MS Outlook chooses to show you that information
rather than the address from the From: header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 31 00:54:01 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 15:54:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Original sender address
	strippedfrom	forwardedemails.
In-Reply-To: <460D8035.50608@greenacrestechnology.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703301554010437cbf7e2d6@msapiro>

Krystal F. Zipfel wrote:
>Not sure it's just Outlook, as Thunderbird does the same. But, 
>interesting non-the-less.


I don't know what Thunderbird you're using , but both Thunderbird
1.5.0.10 and 3.0a1 (two that I happen to have immediate access to)
show the From: and Sender: separately and intact as received.


>Another question along the same lines. Is it possible to "hide" or 
>remove the sender? For instance, I want my newsletter to my members to 
>only show "listname at listserver.com", as 
>"listname-bounces at listserver.com" confuses them.


The envelope must be from the listname-bounces address if automated
bounce processing is going to work. In addition the Sender: header is
set to the same address because some non-compliant MTAs return bounces
to the Sender:. The FAQ
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>
has some discussion of this and also indicates where in the Mailman
code you might change it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 31 01:09:45 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:09:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Original sender address stripped
	fromforwardedemails.
In-Reply-To: <20070330221616.ACE7817F7EE@mail.skyline-ats.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200703301609450390015dc233@msapiro>

>I get similar results when using mutt... I'm not sure this is completely
>related to Outlook either. I guess I just have to keep looking.


I'm not sure what you're seeing with mutt, but what I see is if From:
contains a 'real name' I am shown the real name and not the email
address in the 'index', but when I view the message, I see the actual
From: header and nowhere do I ever see 'from the sender on behalf of
...'.

The bottom line is Mailman doesn't alter the From: header (except in
the case of an anonymous list).

Mailman does alter the Sender: which seems to be in accord with the
RFCs as Mailman is the agent that sends the message to the list
members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan